# Building the perfect fence?



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Can someone recommend building a ideal router fence? It will need to be clamped to my table and I would like to plan for feather boards, zero inserts, and whatever else seems important? thanks.....Tom


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Tom, I would suggest reading thru other table building threads to get idea's of what you like. Maybe take a trip to a woodworking store like Rockler that has mutiple tables on display to see first hand. Here's a link on the topic of tables with fences.

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/17212-wanted-pictures-your-table.html


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

Sometimes it's best to just buy one 
The one I recommend is the one below,you can hang many items on the fence plus it has the zero insert type fence a real plus.

#1073,Supreme Router Table Fence 
Router Table Fence

==========



rolanddds said:


> Can someone recommend building a ideal router fence? It will need to be clamped to my table and I would like to plan for feather boards, zero inserts, and whatever else seems important? thanks.....Tom


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

That's a nice fence. 

I've been waiting for the Rockler split fence to come back in stock off of clearance...and it just did! Woo! Happy Monday to me!

Rockler Router Table Fence with FREE DUST PORT- While Supplies Last! ($72 Value!) - Rockler Woodworking Tools


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Tom:

If you're into making your own, there is an article in the ShopNotes Specials magazine _Setting Up Shop -- Tips, Techniques, Plans & Projects1_, currently in stores. The _Make a Versatile *Fence*_ article starts on page 94.

A link: http://www.shopnotesspecials.com/ 

Cassandra


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi - I like the Freud SH-5:
Amazon.com: Freud SH-5 Professional Micro-Adjustable Router Table Fence: Home Improvement
EXCEPT for the way it attaches to the table. I think if I were going to build one it would be very close to the Peachtree.


----------



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the tips. There are obviously quite a few options out there. I'll still probably build one and then have better clarity as to what features I want or not? My previous fences have consisted of primarily of a 2x4 that has been joined on two sides...Tom


----------



## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

And this is a problem how?
At $1.60 for 8 feet of 2x4 you can have many fences precisely suited to each task.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

rolanddds said:


> Can someone recommend building a ideal router fence? It will need to be clamped to my table and I would like to plan for feather boards, zero inserts, and whatever else seems important? thanks.....Tom


If I were going to build a fence, this is the one I would try to replicate.

Pat Warner Router Fence


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

rolanddds said:


> Thank you everyone for the tips. There are obviously quite a few options out there. I'll still probably build one and then have better clarity as to what features I want or not? My previous fences have consisted of primarily of a 2x4 that has been joined on two sides...Tom


Tom:

There's no way that you'll beat the 2x4. I use a few chunks of maple, each for a different purpose and a custom built "high" fence that will take feather boards.

I am an ardent supporter of the OakPark/Router Workshop philosophy and I highly recommend it for your purposes. It doesn't have to cost a lot to do an excellent job. You'll find your 2x4 fence philosophy fits perfectly with this.


----------



## RLFX (Nov 20, 2009)

Build one this way you get every thing you want in a fence,Anyone can buy one


----------



## Router Rog (Jan 28, 2010)

Tom, buying a quality router table fence is downright expensive. If you want to buy one, buy a kit to save some money. Peachtree USA has some quality kits or just parts to add to your own homemade fence. If your interested in making your own fence I favor the wide-body router table fence shown in the Winter 2010 Woodworker's Journal "Router Projects & Techniques".


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

I am now designing a new fence that I'll build when it will be warmer in my workshop.
The fence works very well on my router table, but I came to this after many transformations. As I have to redo the top of the table, I'll redo the fence too.
This fence is fixed on the table by eccentric lever, (faster than screws) there is a fine adjustment screw, there is an fine adjustment of out-fence.
All this is already drawn. It remains to draw the dust colection, which is behind the fence, from above the bit and also on the left side of the bit.
For me, this will be the perfect fence shop made:sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:

Santé


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have the Incra with extra faces, and a home built one with built in dust extraction.


----------



## swigema (Feb 14, 2010)

I noticed in your pictures that you must have a router lift. What kind do you have and with what router. Do you like the lift and if not what brand would you prefer to use?


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have had a Jessem lift for the last few years, before that, the router was mounted on a plate. What a difference. Height accuracy without messing about. Easily resettable setups. Ease of use. Great reducer rings with the ability to use PC guides. I have a DeWalt 625e permanantly set up in the lift.


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Router Rog said:


> Tom, buying a quality router table fence is downright expensive. If you want to buy one, buy a kit to save some money. Peachtree USA has some quality kits or just parts to add to your own homemade fence. If your interested in making your own fence I favor the wide-body router table fence shown in the Winter 2010 Woodworker's Journal "Router Projects & Techniques".


I was going to do that. But even with picking it up in the store, the special Rockler has going on with their fence beats the cost to do it. In fact, the aluminum fence itself is more expensive right now.

Rockler Router Table Fence with FREE DUST PORT- While Supplies Last! ($72 Value!) - Rockler Woodworking Tools


----------



## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I have done almost everything you can do with a router, using just a 2 x 4 or whatever flat faced piece of wood I could find nearby. What I found most important was a good overhang on each edge of the table top, that way I can clamp my piece of wood anywhere and go at any angle across the table. 

~Julie~
follow your heart woodworking


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all
That is 2 photos of the fence i will make.
I don't let you see the all of the fence because it is not ended (the dust colection)


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I like the idea of the micrometre adjust.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Mike Wingate said:


> I like the idea of the micrometre adjust.


Yes, it works very well, especially with a bearing fixed to the end of the threaded rod
That is a photo of the one i use now


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I don't get it why a micrometre adjust, it's a router table not a mill ..you can breathe on the lumber and it will change.. 

========


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> I don't get it why a micrometre adjust, it's a router table not a mill ..you can breathe on the lumber and it will change..
> 
> ========


Hi Bob, i don't understand why it can change. The fence is finaly fixed but to place the fence par rapport at the bit, it is a pleasure to turn this micrometric adjust.
You can adjust without this but with it is a pleasure. A complete turn of 360° move the fence 0.5mm.
Santé


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I am also going to incorporate a micro adjust into my new table. MDF and clamps work fine, but I'd like a little more control.


----------



## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

> Pat Warner Router Fence


These fenses that have a single adjustment in the center that moves the fence in and out toward the bit...don't the ends have a tendency to move. In other words, isn't the center adjustment a pivot point? You can adjust it out at the center but one end may be in a bit and the other end out a bit?


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

I use a micrometer adjustment method too -- it's called a hammer. One little tap and my fence is adjusted 0.0001". One medium tap = 0.001" and one heavy tap 0.01" Rob Rozendahl calls it the "fine adjusting tool."


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I can appreciate the ability to control just how much the fence can move. My Incra can move 1/1000th of an inch, if I want to. It's a nice feature. The fence on the Trend Pro is a pain to move, never mind adjust. I have to use a series of pencil marks as a reference. Not what I am used to.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

what you guys wanting a microadjust are missing is that wood moves more in one hour thant your microadjust will cover. therefore the microadjust is useless! 

like BobJ said this is woodworking, a microadjust is useles!

i will stop at this.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Santé said:


> Hi Bob, i don't understand why it can change. The fence is finaly fixed but to place the fence par rapport at the bit, it is a pleasure to turn this micrometric adjust.
> You can adjust without this but with it is a pleasure. A complete turn of 360° move the fence 0.5mm.
> Santé


hi Sante, 

the fence may not change that much, but the stock you are working with will change if it is wood! it only takes a little more humidity and the fence went out the window as far as microadjustments.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

a couple knuckles, the back of your hand, a bump with a hammer, a tap with what ever is available or the turn of a knob. the point is getting the fence to where you want it to be. I 
find it difficult to say that any method or means used to be useless.


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm not sure it's anything to get worked up about. If there's something that will allow me to dial in a rabbet or etc without going too far and wasting the wood, that sounds like a good tool to me.

And I understand the wood can change slightly, you should be able to get predictable results if all pieces are treated equally. At least that's what my science teacher tried to tell me.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

cocheseuga said:


> i'm not sure it's anything to get worked up about. If there's something that will allow me to dial in a rabbet or etc without going too far and wasting the wood, that sounds like a good tool to me.
> 
> And i understand the wood can change slightly, you should be able to get predictable results if all pieces are treated equally. At least that's what my science teacher tried to tell me.


+1


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Chris,

this is a forum to discuss the router and all things pertaining. i am not worked up, but think lots of people should be able to express their views for or against. thats the only way we learn or get new ideas.

if it takes a microadjuster for you thats great. most of the time people using them want to get a measurement to a thousandth. with wood nothing can be so close. or at least thats the way it is in Georgia. we have large variances in temperature and humidity. 

i can cut a board to fit in the morning and if left out in my shop, it may not fit in the afternoon. thats just a fact of living here. wood can change quite a bit.

on a lighter note Chris, i never saw a science teacher that could build an outhouse,lol


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Cocheseuga said:


> I was going to do that. But even with picking it up in the store, the special Rockler has going on with their fence beats the cost to do it. In fact, the aluminum fence itself is more expensive right now.
> 
> Rockler Router Table Fence with FREE DUST PORT- While Supplies Last! ($72 Value!) - Rockler Woodworking Tools



I got that fence only it didn't have a dust port with it when I bought it sometime in the last month or so  that or I lost it.

I was glad I got it at the clearance price as I didn't think it was worth the almost $70 it used to be or what ever the price of the replacement is. That might be because I already have access to some angle iron and some melamine boards. If I didn't maybe I would think it was worth more.


Regarding treating wood the same and hoping it expands or contracts the same...wood expands or contracts differently depending on the grain of the wood and how it is cut. That is one of the reasons people like MDF or other engineered woods.


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

There's a few people getting worked up over seemingly trivial things lately, so you never know.

I'm not so much interested in how to set my fence at 12.00567 degrees to the horizon or whatever. I'm more interested in saving a little time. I usually set up my fence with the brass bars, but give myself a little room for error. Then, if it doesn't fit, I need to fine tune it. Doing so with clamps hasn't always worked well for me. I adjust, rout. Adjust, rout. Adjust, rout...oops, went too far. Or I try to adjust and I go to far and try to go back...damn. Time to start over.

I think with a microadjust, I can simply setup with built-in error, rout. Turn a knob slightly, rout. Rinse and repeat until I get where I need to be. That's all. If one can do it the way I've tried and not produce errors, or you have the time then that's great for them.

I just know I have an extremely limited time to try and do these things. I either have to run over to my parents on the weekend and let them watch the kids, or try to do something in the short time they take a nap. I'll gladly make or pay the $20 for the device in order to allow me to get more things done in that time I have.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

I think some do not understood the system. I certainly poorly explained.
Variations of wood have nothing to do with setting the fence
There are 3 levels, the first is the basis for quick adjustment with cam lock on each side
The second level is the micrometer adjustment, this piece revolves around the axis (circled in yellow, left) and moves about +20 mm to -20mm at the bit.with a cam to lock it
The third level is the setting of advancing the left fence locked by 2 nuts on the second level.
The dust colection part is not drawn on the drawings but will be very comfortable with many opportunities by work done.


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

It is a clever idea Daniel, especially the sliding wedge. Would it not tend to jam, as the force is not central to the movement ?

Cheers

Peter


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

istracpsboss said:


> It is a clever idea Daniel, especially the sliding wedge. Would it not tend to jam, as the force is not central to the movement ?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter


Is it from this you speak of ?
I use it for years, they can not slide they were blocked
On the photo, the left fence is moved 2mm

Daniel


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Sante,
I think most people will agree that the micro adjust on the outfeed fence is useful. It is the micro adjust on the whole fence that some people don't see a use for because the wood can expand or contract more than 0.5mm after you have done the routing.
I quite like your design and if ever I get to make a router table, I might use it.

Je pense que la plupart des gens conviendront que le micro ajuster sur la barrière de déchargement est utile. Il est d'ajuster le micro sur la barrière tout que certaines personnes ne voient pas l'utilité parce que le bois peut élargir ou d'un contrat de plus de 0,5 mm après avoir fait le routage.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

That is the late drawings i just finished
The first picture is the colection behind and above the fence.
The 2d is only behind and eventually at the left of the bit
The 3d is is the back with the slider closer of the dust colection at the left of the bit connected by hose
The last pic is the cam lifted to remove the fence


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Santé said:


> Is it from this you speak of ?
> I use it for years, they can not slide they were blocked
> On the photo, the left fence is moved 2mm
> 
> Daniel


Hi Daniel. It was the other micro adjuster I was concerned about as it is bearing just at one end. It is pushing at the end, where I would have thought it would need to push somewhere further in.
The outfeed one here is obviously very solid.

Cheers

Peter


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

OK Peter
On this pic, you see the right cam lever is clamped and the left is opened for fence adjusting. When the fence is ok, you must clamp the left lever and then it is very strong
On the fence i use now, is a nut.... (écrou à ailette, écrou papillon, écrou à oreilles ? i don't know what is in english ?) that do the job


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Daniel

They would be wing nuts. I used them a lot before I was able to obtain moulded plastic handles.

I'm still failing to understand something. A fence starts off being a straight line. Because material is being removed from the work piece, it then needs to be slightly further forward ahead of the cutter, by the amount the cutter is removing, in order to support the work properly. Thus the fence is better in two halves. Whilst no longer a straight line, the faces of the two parts of the fence need to be parallel.
I'm OK with the section of fence after the cutter. It is the first part I don't understand. Having the adjustment at the beginning suggests to me that the fence is pivoting somewhere around the cutter and that the first part of the fence will no longer be parallel to the last part of the fence. I understand the clamping system.

Thanks

Peter


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Yes, i think i understand your thinking.
The first part of of the fence (the base) will not to be parallel to the real fence, it is only a support with an axis at the left. The second part will rotate at this axis. At the right of the fence this part will rotate +/- 40mm maximum. only for the fine adjustment. The right part of the fence is glued on this second level. generaly, the 2 parts of the fence (left and right) are in just alignment but sometime the left part will be a little advanced is why the left part is glued on the third level and was separately adjustable.
Is all understood Peter ?


----------



## davcefai (Aug 3, 2009)

*Microadjuster*

I think that the people pooh-poohing the idea of a microadjuster are missing a point.

I have today routed 16 rebates for (nominal) 15mm plywood using a 12mm bit.

So, first I cut 16 12mm rebates and one test piece. I then moved the fence 2mm (2 turns on my system) and widened the the test rebate. This left it a little tight but I was able to sneak up on the setting with one more tiny adjustment.

The result: 16 perfectly sized rebates into which the plywood slid with a couple of light taps.

Using a hammer or my knuckles would not have enabled me to achieve this as easily.

I suppose it all depends on what you do with your router.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

davcefai said:


> The result: 16 perfectly sized rebates into which the plywood slid with a couple of light taps.
> 
> Using a hammer or my knuckles would not have enabled me to achieve this as easily.
> 
> I suppose it all depends on what you do with your router.


Hi Dave:

Fine Adjusting Tool (hammer) works wonders for me. You do a slight twist, I do a slight tap. Amounts to about the same thing.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

yes, but that depend of the size of the hammer !:lol::lol::lol:
Santé


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Some of us are hammer skills deficient.  And mechanical skills deficient too, so don't have the micro adjuster either  I have to rely on multiple test cut after multiple test cut. Hoping my new depth gauge that works for both height and distance will cut it down to just multiple test cuts.


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I have an Incra original jig clamped t my router table and a split fence mounted to it. The jig moves in 1/32 increments. Seems to be close enough for everything I have needed so far. When it isn't I use the FAT. (fine adjusting tool.)


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

I tested this micro-adjusting (with a hammer), this mornig, but my wife was particularly unpleasant ....... I'll rebuild a new fence:angry:

No, is a joke, my fence is still very good !........ my wife No:jester:

Santé


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> yes, but that depend of the size of the hammer !:lol::lol::lol:
> Santé


C'est ca la truc. Utilisez toujours la meme marteau.

That's the trick. Always use the same hammer.

Ta pauvre femme! Elle va au paradis pour certain ;-)

Your poor wife! She'll go to heaven for sure ;-)


----------



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Interesting! I started this way back on page one not realizing where it would lead. It sounds like there are two camps. The micro adjusting group and the hammer group. I for one have only used a hammer and 2 x 4, so I don't know what I am missing . But that is what the forum is all about, right? Sharing ideas. Tom


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

rolanddds said:


> Interesting! I started this way back on page one not realizing where it would lead. It sounds like there are two camps. The micro adjusting group and the hammer group. I for one have only used a hammer and 2 x 4, so I don't know what I am missing . But that is what the forum is all about, right? Sharing ideas. Tom


Actually Tom it's a lot more than that. We each have our own opinions and experiences and training. But, above all we respect each other's point of view and we all learn, even from such mundane discussions as this one.


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I would like the incra fence system, especially after I saw it in use on Tools and Techniques last week or the week before...but it is out of my range for a while. I don't think convincing She who does the actual buying that a fence system that cost more than my saw is something to get right now, especially since She has been so out of character with buying me tools these last few months.

With that fence, even me who is hammer deficient and mechanical skills deficient could manage to get repeatable results (depending of course on the wood movement).


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Derek

You don't need the Gold One, the smaller one with do the jobs just fine, some on the forum have the solid gold one that's like buying a new car but the one for 80.oo bucks and sometimes for 60.oo bucks works very well.

Incra Universal Precision Positioning Jig - Rockler Woodworking Tools

http://www.rockler.com/video/incra/Incra-Universal-Precision-Positioning-Jig.html
=======



DerekO said:


> I would like the incra fence system, especially after I saw it in use on Tools and Techniques last week or the week before...but it is out of my range for a while. I don't think convincing She who does the actual buying that a fence system that cost more than my saw is something to get right now, especially since She has been so out of character with buying me tools these last few months.
> 
> With that fence, even me who is hammer deficient and mechanical skills deficient could manage to get repeatable results (depending of course on the wood movement).


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I didn't know incra sold anything that didn't require a small mortgage on the house .

Thanks.


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Derek that's the jig/fence I have on my router table. Works GREAT!


----------



## jbert (Feb 20, 2010)

Tom

I am new to all of this and have done hours of investigation. Building your own is the only way to go and a lot less expensive. Be sure to check out t-molding then you can do about anything you want to.

Good Luck



Jim


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I got a big old NO when I brought up the incra fence...and then a maybe when I brought up the cheaper versions. I wonder if incra is excluded from the 20% off coupon? Will have to check as She said we might go by there this weekend depending on how much work she has to do.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

DerekO said:


> I got a big old NO when I brought up the incra fence...and then a maybe when I brought up the cheaper versions. I wonder if incra is excluded from the 20% off coupon? Will have to check as She said we might go by there this weekend depending on how much work she has to do.


Derek,

My best advice to get a deal is to sign up for their newsletter. I know they are offering some great discounts to eletter subscribers. Woodpeckers.com is where I would sign up. They also have scratch and dents, open box, and other specials on occassion.

Which reminds me, I don't think I have signed up at Incra's site.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Brad.. Incra sends out specials pretty regularly to email subscribers. Usually its a 10 Percent off kinda deal. Never anything in the way of scratch and dent. Woodpeckers does on occasion like you said, have some great buys on scratch and dent, clearance items etc. I picked up a set 10" F clamps a while back for a song. Wish now I would have gotten 8 instead of 4.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Derek..

the incra light version is a really good deal. Adjustments are limited to 1/32nd of an inch, but that in most cases is plenty enough. right now, on ebay, one is going for 50 bucks..

Jessem also makes a micro fence, not much cheaper than the Incra.. but another option with a solid following. If you do decide to go the micro route..start shopping and be very patient. There are good deals to be had out there if your persistant. 

bill


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

timbertailor said:


> Derek,
> 
> My best advice to get a deal is to sign up for their newsletter. I know they are offering some great discounts to eletter subscribers. Woodpeckers.com is where I would sign up. They also have scratch and dents, open box, and other specials on occassion.
> 
> Which reminds me, I don't think I have signed up at Incra's site.


I am signed up at so many sites that I have started to get confused what I did. Too many email addresses used over the years too.

I have been careful, or so I thought, with the address I used to register on here. Only a few places like this or some commercial sites I thought would follow their privacy policy. Yet it gets tons and tons of spam. 

I have addresses that I haven't used in over 10 years with accounts on my linux box. Some of them have managed to get spam when they have never ever signed up for any thing. 

Time to get off of my spam soap box here and go sign up for a couple of sites.


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I did see some on ebay, some deals, some things priced high I thought when I later looked at online stores


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DerekO said:


> I did see some on ebay, some deals, some things priced high I thought when I later looked at online stores


yep... thats why I said, just be patient..shop around.. 

there are good and 'bad' deals to be had on ebay....


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

DerekO said:


> I did see some on ebay, some deals, some things priced high I thought when I later looked at online stores


I will post more in the show and tell section under my cabinets but I thought I would share a photo of some test blind dovetails I made yesterday. They have not been sanded and I still need to center just a little better but all my setting look like they are good.

Incra rocks!


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Brad, ain't it the truth!!!! *S*

I'm in the middle of doing a chest of drawers for my grandson.. and the wife & daughter bought me an Porter Cable DT jig for Christmas...(lord know why...*L*.. but its the thought
that counts and they both think that they done good, so I"m kinda stuck with it.. terrible thing ain't it. *L*.. she asked the other night if i was going to use the new jig for the drawers, so I guess, I'm gonna learn how to use the PC this weekend..) 

I still love my Incra most...

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Presents is how I funded most of my purchases of recent tools...at least up until my Wife lost her normal thrifty ways and spent so much on me at Harbor Freight. I got dupes on several things for Christmas from Her family and mine. Put the craftsman 19.2 drill on both lists and a cheap angle grinder too. My parents bought me a 19.2 3/8th" drill kit with a saw and something else (actually we bought it when on sale just in case I didn't get it as a gift and my Wife sold it to them without me knowing) and when we went to return it they gave us $100 back instead of $80 even though my Wife told them it only originally cost $80. My brother bought me some expensive craftsman angle grinder and we returned that for another $40. My in-laws got me the 1/2" craftsman 19.2 I wanted and a much cheaper angle grinder. Add to that the money my mother gave my wife for cabinets that she decided I could make instead even with my limited skills since they were for the basement and garage. The only thing that made it so things got more expensive than we planned is finding out how bad saw dust can be for you and Her allergies acting up worse when She would come over just after I cut or routed something which led to the dust collector purchase (again coupon, normally $229 paid $139). She used another 20% off coupon on the hose/clamps/hoods/blast gates starter kit.

So just tell them you used it and trade it on something else  Could even buy the cheaper one at harbor freight or home depot that takes two boards at a time like the PC does and they probably wouldn't notice the difference if they happened to come into the shop 

Or am I just trained in my mother's evil ways of bargain shopping? She is a master bargain shopper and passed on a lot of it to my Wife before we got married and some training continued after we got married. The only things not bought on sale or with coupons or because of a club discount were either very inexpensive and the ryobi router/table combo because she didn't have a coupon for it or home depot and had already used ones for earlier purchases.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Brad, ain't it the truth!!!! *S*
> 
> I'm in the middle of doing a chest of drawers for my grandson.. and the wife & daughter bought me an Porter Cable DT jig for Christmas...(lord know why...*L*.. but its the thought
> that counts and they both think that they done good, so I"m kinda stuck with it.. terrible thing ain't it. *L*.. she asked the other night if i was going to use the new jig for the drawers, so I guess, I'm gonna learn how to use the PC this weekend..)
> ...


Your secret is safe with me. As you said, it is the thought that counts.

Mabye after the cabinet build, a quiet Craigs listing or eBay pub will go unnoticed.:dance3:

There is one thing I doubt you will ever have to deal with is your wife buying you another Incra System!:lol:


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

DerekO said:


> Presents is how I funded most of my purchases of recent tools...at least up until my Wife lost her normal thrifty ways and spent so much on me at Harbor Freight. I got dupes on several things for Christmas from Her family and mine. Put the craftsman 19.2 drill on both lists and a cheap angle grinder too. My parents bought me a 19.2 3/8th" drill kit with a saw and something else (actually we bought it when on sale just in case I didn't get it as a gift and my Wife sold it to them without me knowing) and when we went to return it they gave us $100 back instead of $80 even though my Wife told them it only originally cost $80. My brother bought me some expensive craftsman angle grinder and we returned that for another $40. My in-laws got me the 1/2" craftsman 19.2 I wanted and a much cheaper angle grinder. Add to that the money my mother gave my wife for cabinets that she decided I could make instead even with my limited skills since they were for the basement and garage. The only thing that made it so things got more expensive than we planned is finding out how bad saw dust can be for you and Her allergies acting up worse when She would come over just after I cut or routed something which led to the dust collector purchase (again coupon, normally $229 paid $139). She used another 20% off coupon on the hose/clamps/hoods/blast gates starter kit.
> 
> So just tell them you used it and trade it on something else  Could even buy the cheaper one at harbor freight or home depot that takes two boards at a time like the PC does and they probably wouldn't notice the difference if they happened to come into the shop
> 
> Or am I just trained in my mother's evil ways of bargain shopping? She is a master bargain shopper and passed on a lot of it to my Wife before we got married and some training continued after we got married. The only things not bought on sale or with coupons or because of a club discount were either very inexpensive and the ryobi router/table combo because she didn't have a coupon for it or home depot and had already used ones for earlier purchases.


Tell your family that I am available for adoption.:cray:


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Brad.. naaaaaaaa I couldn't do that to her. Around here, tools are kind of a misunderstood necessity *S* on her behalf. I pretty much get what I want when I can save up my pennies and dimes. Come holidays and birthdays and the like, I'll put in a request and get "da look" *L*. I'm sure you know the one.. the "what for" look. quickly followed by the "don't you already have one" look. 
Several years ago she bought me a 12" craftsman bandsaw for Christmas. I was absolutely floored! Knew nothing about it. and for her to get it, well, it was just kinda special. right now, more than anything in my shop, I'd love to upgrade to a 16" Laguna. to do that, I'd have to sell off the 12"r. Just can't bring myself to do it. Same thing applies to the DT jig. I know I'll have it for a long time to come, just cuz. 
But I'll tell ya, of late, I've become a big fan of hand planes. Everytime I look in my Lee Valley Cat. and open up to the plane section,,,ohhh that lil guy on my left shoulder just keeps whispering...do it, do it.. do it..
I must stay strong...


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I think I have already told you Bill, resistance is futile.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

so true, ohhh so true...


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

timbertailor said:


> Tell your family that I am available for adoption.:cray:


hahaahaha. Do you have kids? If so, you could probably replace my brother right now and him and my mother are on one of their semi-annual feuds again.:nhl_checking:


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Well, mine collects dolls.... Must be 300 of 'em sitting around here.. Month or so ago I was checking my eBay account and said something about "3 more dolls". She said "Well, you get your tools". I thought a second and said "Yeah, but my toys are ambitious enough to make dust, not sit around and collect it":lol: Yeah,, it was ON!!!


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Nice set of Dovetails Brad. Put me in the "micro adjust" camp. Nice ideas and terrific graphics Sante.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Mike Wingate said:


> Nice set of Dovetails Brad. Put me in the "micro adjust" camp. Nice ideas and terrific graphics Sante.


Thanks, the graphics are made with Sketchup who is terrific too !:sarcastic:


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> But I'll tell ya, of late, I've become a big fan of hand planes. Everytime I look in my Lee Valley Cat. and open up to the plane section,,,ohhh that lil guy on my left shoulder just keeps whispering...do it, do it.. do it..
> I must stay strong...


You must have sent that little guy (or his brother) over my way... I took out my old Sears cheep import pseudo-jack plane I tuned up just before I moved back to Alaska and took a couple of wispy cuts with it and got to thinking about LV low-angle planes and how a jointer and smoother would make my back-burner cherry entry bench a lot easier to make. 

A couple of weeks later I was perusing the LV catalog and danged if that little guy didn't open it to the planes section and the next thing I knew I had my checkbook out. Be careful cuz he's not satisfied with just one at a time either! Next thing I knew I'd turned half-Neanderthal!!!


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

At least you pulled out your checkbook. All I can do is drool.


----------



## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

Whats the best way to deal with excess clearance around a router bit? I don't mean in the plate but in the fence.
Do we 
1) create a fixed size space in the center of the fence which will house the bit with more or less clearance depending on the bits? 
2) create an sacrificial insert that is replaced for each individual bit? 
3) use a split fence that can be adjusted to "close in" on the bit, thus creating a closer clearance but still not a zero clearance? 
4) something else?

Whats your choice?


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi ,
I choise N° 3 , a split fence but for very small pieces, I set a plywood and I pass-through bit in there, in this case, is zero clearance.

Santé


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

sofasurfer said:


> Whats the best way to deal with excess clearance around a router bit? I don't mean in the plate but in the fence.
> Do we
> 1) create a fixed size space in the center of the fence which will house the bit with more or less clearance depending on the bits?
> 2) create an sacrificial insert that is replaced for each individual bit?
> ...


My fences would probably fit #2. I have the CMT router tables. It is a split fence that has 3 pieces. The center section is about 5" or 6" long & has 10 degree on the ends so it just slips in between the split fence & holds itself in. 

I can make multiple zero clearance inserts that are easy to change. Just swing the fence over the edge of the table & the insert drops out. Put another insert in & swing fence back onto table I the insert stays in.

Mike's Tools


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

sofasurfer said:


> Whats the best way to deal with excess clearance around a router bit? I don't mean in the plate but in the fence.
> Do we
> 1) create a fixed size space in the center of the fence which will house the bit with more or less clearance depending on the bits?
> 2) create an sacrificial insert that is replaced for each individual bit?
> ...


That's why I use a jointed 2x4. It will serve for several months, depending on the work, and when it becomes too sloppy, it gets put back into the scrap bin and another gets jointed and grooved.


----------



## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm with Ron above... I just grab another 2 x 4.

I think the thing is with the fence, it's really a learning curve. Meaning that if you are doing a lot with your router then you will soon discover that some of the pre-made fences are not going to work for you in all applications. Now if all you do is roundovers, then sure, just set your basic fence for that and leave it. But really the router is used for so many different applications, unlike most other tools. And most of them need the router in a different position with respect to the fence and the the bit and the table and featherboards, clamp downs, etc. So the more you use your router the more you will see that you need to find something that works for you which may be totally different than what works for your neighbour. 

~Julie~


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I'm with James on this one, if you don't use one you will never know the joy of using one like it  2 x 4's are for a saw horse not a router table unless that's all you have.  like they say any port in a storm will do.. 

========


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Daryl I would say all of the above. Different and unique operations will use all those methods at one time or another. It is dependent on what you are doing. I think most things can be done with a split fence, but there are times when the fixed opening is more useful because you still have support across the top of the opening. And I have used the sacrificial insert for that box joint bit for example. The operation will determine what fence works best.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> Daryl I would say all of the above. Different and unique operations will use all those methods at one time or another. It is dependent on what you are doing. I think most things can be done with a split fence, but there are times when the fixed opening is more useful because you still have support across the top of the opening. And I have used the sacrificial insert for that box joint bit for example. The operation will determine what fence works best.


Make that two.

These help, as well.


----------



## ryanlamprecht (Feb 19, 2010)

Keeping in mind that thus far, I have no practical experience with any of this, I have read just about everything I can find pertaining to router tables and fences. I have looked through hundreds of pictures of both, some homemade and some purchased. One thing I have noticed is there doesn't seem to be a single table or fence I would consider to "have it all." I see some great features and ideas, but then in other areas, in my opinion, they seem to fall short. Some have great adjustment features, but look to have very poor dust collection. Some have a great clamping system, but not much else. For example, and not to hurt anyone's feeling or suggest I know anything at all since I have no experience, the Precision Integrated Curtain Fence. I'd never seen this fence before, but right off the bat I can tell I love the lockdowns, or whatever their called, and the adjustment seems to be a pretty good idea, and I will likely integrate that into mine when I finally build it. Other than that, I don't see a single thing on that fence that looks all that practical. Integrating features from different systems will likely be my approach. I like the fences that ride along a T track, but don't care for the ones that clamp to the sides of the table. I think the best thing you can do is pick the features you need and like best from many different fences and then figure a way to integrate them into one fence. Also, if you see a certain feature repeated over and over again by many different manufacturers and by homemade fences, there is probably a good reason why. It's probably because that feature works best overall.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

ryanlamprecht said:


> Keeping in mind that thus far, I have no practical experience with any of this, I have read just about everything I can find pertaining to router tables and fences. I have looked through hundreds of pictures of both, some homemade and some purchased. One thing I have noticed is there doesn't seem to be a single table or fence I would consider to "have it all."


You're going to love me. Actually, all of the fences "have it all" for the people who use them. The only problem is that none fit your requirements. I have a variety of fences, short, long, deep bit pockets, shallow ones, I have a short high fence for featherboard use that I made out of 3/4" plywood and a good straight cut on the table saw.

Everything depends on what you want to do. You can spend a fortune or be frugal with your funds. I'll let the others update you on the expensive stuff.



> I see some great features and ideas, but then in other areas, in my opinion, they seem to fall short. Some have great adjustment features, but look to have very poor dust collection. Some have a great clamping system, but not much else. For example, and not to hurt anyone's feeling or suggest I know anything at all since I have no experience, the Precision Integrated Curtain Fence. I'd never seen this fence before, but right off the bat I can tell I love the lockdowns, or whatever their called, and the adjustment seems to be a pretty good idea, and I will likely integrate that into mine when I finally build it. Other than that, I don't see a single thing on that fence that looks all that practical. Integrating features from different systems will likely be my approach. I like the fences that ride along a T track, but don't care for the ones that clamp to the sides of the table. I think the best thing you can do is pick the features you need and like best from many different fences and then figure a way to integrate them into one fence. Also, if you see a certain feature repeated over and over again by many different manufacturers and by homemade fences, there is probably a good reason why. It's probably because that feature works best overall.


Define your requirements first, then come back with those requirements and we'll see what we can do.


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

There's about three fences for every user. Or so it seems. MDF is cheap - make as many as you feel you need.

I'll still have at least one version of my MDF fence even after I switch to my new Rockler one.


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

ryanlamprecht said:


> Keeping in mind that thus far, I have no practical experience with any of this, I have read just about everything I can find pertaining to router tables and fences. I have looked through hundreds of pictures of both, some homemade and some purchased. One thing I have noticed is there doesn't seem to be a single table or fence I would consider to "have it all." I see some great features and ideas, but then in other areas, in my opinion, they seem to fall short.


This is why you need several routers and tables  

I keep telling my Wife this, but the idea hasn't worked into Her brain yet. Need to try playing a quiet recording saying over and over "Derek needs more routers, Derek needs more routers" while She sleeps.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

DerekO said:


> This is why you need several routers and tables
> 
> I keep telling my Wife this, but the idea hasn't worked into Her brain yet. Need to try playing a quiet recording saying over and over "Derek needs more routers, Derek needs more routers" while She sleeps.


Derek:

It doesn't work. I tried it years ago. There's something about men and tools which just cannot penetrate a woman's psyche.


----------



## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Ryan said “I have no practical experience with any of this…”
and
“I like the fences that ride along a T track, but don't care for the ones that clamp to the sides of the table.”

Don't take this wrong Ryan, but you really need to try out things first and use a router in different ways before you decide.

I have been using a router regularly, meaning at least twice at week, sometimes daily, for about 8 years. I have used all kinds of bits and jigs and types of routering. I love the clamp on fences. I make them myself. For what it's worth, I can't imagine needing a t-track.

Now BJ said something to the effect that using a 2 x 4 for a fence is not a good idea. Show me the last five things you've made bob, other than jigs, and why you needed something better than a 2 x 4 for a fence. (and by the way, it's not just a 2 x 4, it's planed and squared and straightened, etc.)

~Julie~


----------



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Mike Wingate said:


> Nice set of Dovetails Brad. Put me in the "micro adjust" camp. Nice ideas and terrific graphics Sante.


Mike: didn't you post a thread " My fence really sucks"? 

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/15945-my-fence-sucks.html


To me it looked like a great fence, but I assumed it was only clamped down and not micro adjusted. Have you changed camps? Do you still love it? It looks like it would do everything I would want.i.e. cheap to make, mdf, replaceable inserts, suction, featherboards... Thanks.. Tom


----------



## bobfowler (Mar 10, 2010)

I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread, but I REALLY like the Kreg Precision Fence on my router table. It was a tad spendy to be sure, but I still love it...


----------



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Hey Bob, What is it that you love about the kreg fence? Tom


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> Derek:
> 
> It doesn't work. I tried it years ago. There's something about men and tools which just cannot penetrate a woman's psyche.


 Outside of table saws, routers or the long bar clamps with twisting handles She will use most of the tools and even considers some of them Her's like the circular saw, the new craftsman drill, all saw horses, the hammers (though neither one of us can nail straight) and all utility/box cutter knives.


----------



## bobfowler (Mar 10, 2010)

rolanddds said:


> Hey Bob, What is it that you love about the kreg fence? Tom


Well, if it's set up properly; it always stays parallel to the miter slot, adjusts like a good table saw fence, locks down real solid, the micro-adjuster makes it easy to tweak to the exact position, the built in offset rods for jointing, easy face adjustment, good dust collection port, T-Track on the top, and an easy to position bit guard. That's good for starters! :laugh:


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

bobfowler said:


> Well, if it's set up properly; it always stays parallel to the miter slot, adjusts like a good table saw fence, locks down real solid, the micro-adjuster makes it easy to tweak to the exact position, the built in offset rods for jointing, easy face adjustment, good dust collection port, T-Track on the top, and an easy to position bit guard. That's good for starters! :laugh:


sounds like my pieces of 2x4


----------



## davcefai (Aug 3, 2009)

Whenever I read a thread on Router Fences the 2x4 versus microadjustable debate always crops up.

I am not tryng to enter the debate. I need to know if I am missing something.

The 2x4 guys always ask why bother, wood moves so much.

So, for example, last night I was routing two 15mm dados to accept a 15mm plywood board. I was using a 10mm bit. I marked out the dados, routed to a depth of 9mm. 

I then started moving the fence in 2mm increments to widen the slot. When close to the line I was able to move the fence in fractions of a mm until I got the tight push fit I wanted. The fence was held in place by the adjustment screw and I knew by how much I was moving it. On my fence 1turn = 1mm so I can control it to 1/5th of a turn which is 0.2mm.

How would you do this with a 2x4 and a mallet? The chances are I could overshoot and then have to try and go back by hit and miss.

I hope that the above is non-inflammatory. I really would like to settle this in my mind before I start on the mark 3 fence or decide I don't need to


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

All right I'll bite the bullet!



davcefai said:


> How would you do this with a 2x4 and a mallet? The chances are I could overshoot and then have to try and go back by hit and miss.


I have two 3" "C" clamps, clamping the fence on the table. They're not cinched down tight, but they are holding the fence firmly. Now, here's the trick. You don't use a mallet, they're too light. I use a good old 16 oz. cast steel hammer from yesteryear (my father's) and too beloved to use in construction.

Move the hammer about 1" away from the fence. Tap the fence with slightly more than a gentle tap and you get about 10 thou. Now, the more you tighten down the fence, that tap has less and less influence on the fence. The material on the table top will also influence your tap. I have one table with fir plywood and it has lots of stickshun (bicycle term) whereas the laminated top is slippery. I'll not use laminated again, I think. I would probably use MDF, equally as flat but less slippery.

Sometimes I'll also use a block on the back side of the fence so as not to damage the fence.

The second part of this is a measuring block. 










This is the LeeValley set #05N58.01 (above) but OakPark makes a brass set as well. Their number is BB0730.










However, I duplicated the OakPark set with some scrap brass bars that I gleaned from a brass and bronze vendor. I also use scrap steel, iron, white metal, just about anything that has a stable thickness. I use anything that measures in larger sizes i.e. 1/16" or 1/8" or 5/16" not 13/64". It is easier to combine bars that are thicker.

One of the advantages of this system, is the variety of stable/repeatable measurements that you can get. Turn the cutting edge to the fence insert a piece of brass and fill out the measurement toward the face of the fence. Tap the fence lightly to close up the gap and your measurement is done. Cinch down the "C" clamps tight and you have a stable, repeatable measurement that can be duplicated no matter what the temperature or humidity. You're not relying on wood components to retain their dimensions, just brass and steel and their movement rates are minuscule compared to wood.

Now, I'll stand back and wait for the furor


----------



## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

No different than your table saw fence... to move it you just loosen the clamping mechanism and knock it over a bit with your hand, don't you? I draw a short pencil line against my router fence and then move it and I can see where I've gone. I usually just pivot my fence, I don't move it parallel, and I always do a sample first, or just put the end 1/8" of the board through and see if it looks right.

~Julie~


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

For me is not furor but laugh:haha:

Santé


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Now, here's the trick. You don't use a mallet, they're too light. I use a good old 16 oz. cast steel hammer from yesteryear (my father's) and too beloved to use in construction.


A yes,, the fine calibration tool. In a pinch a Crescent-Hammer will do... sometimes requiring a screw-chisel!


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> For me is not furor but laugh:haha:
> 
> Santé


ne rire pas avant l'essayez.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> A yes,, the fine calibration tool. In a pinch a Crescent-Hammer will do... sometimes requiring a screw-chisel!


Jim, you forgot the screw-mallet and the monkey-hammer


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Jim, you forgot the screw-mallet and the monkey-hammer


With those ya have a well-rounded too box... WAIT.. Aren't toolboxes rectangular??!!!


----------



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

For those of you that use a zero clearance fence system, how do you manage dust collection? Seems like that would be a problem if you have suction on your fence? ....Thanks Tom


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

BigJimAK said:


> With those ya have a well-rounded too box... WAIT.. Aren't toolboxes rectangular??!!!


5 gallon buckets.


----------



## davcefai (Aug 3, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> All right I'll bite the bullet!
> Now, I'll stand back and wait for the furor


Thanks for the reply, allthumbs. Tapping the clamped fence should make the adjustment easier.

However, having thought about it, I think I'll go with micro-adjust. Among other things tinkering with the fence is a fun job


----------



## irvin00 (Feb 14, 2010)

timbertailor said:


> If I were going to build a fence, this is the one I would try to replicate.


That fence looks quite "over-engineered" to me. And the price is ridiculously high...but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

irvin00 said:


> That fence looks quite "over-engineered" to me. And the price is ridiculously high...


Agreed!


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

My fence that sucks,now pivots on a clamp on the rear left, right hand clamp is slackened and a clamped on fine adjuster can push or pull +/- 10mm. The left split fence has sheet plastic shims that fit between box and upright to incrementally move it forward for planing purposes. Wood may move, but I still want things to fit. I make plenty of templates and the router fence can fine tune them with this system. The Incra will move 1/1000" with its fine adjuster. The hammer method has it's uses, but I like to be able to really control what I do.


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

My split fence has 10 degree angled ends that take a sacrificial block with matching bevels, thus ensuring a good efficient extraction. I don't have built in extraction on the Incra, unless I use the Guide Pin with extraction. Nothing is foolproof in 100% of situations. I do a variety of one off projects, and need flexibility of actions.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

To kinda go against the grain here, I don't feel that there such a thing as "over engineered". At least not in the eyes of the guy/gal who designed and built it. As long as it does what you want it to do, the way you want it done...its all good. 
Now something may be "over engineered" in the eyes of the buyer!! And that is simply a matter of different strokes for different folks...

As for the Pat Warner fence.. Personally I think it appears to be well made, well thought out and wellllllllllll over priced!!!!! 
I do like the fact he does a great job of explaining the rig and provides some great specs so that at least, someone considering the fence, knows pretty much exactly where their getting.


----------



## irvin00 (Feb 14, 2010)

One obvious drawback to Pat Warner's fence design (other than the astronomical price) is the fact that so many crevices and little buttons and dials and parts are a magnet for dust and a nightmare to clean. Also, so many little parts providing adjustment only serve to increase the chances that some measurement will be off somewhere (I'm scared of what looks like a pressure valve in the pictures )

But the again, my opinion should be taken with a Gibraltar-rock sized grain of salt: I'm a hobbyist with a passion for KISS methods and devices.

YMMV.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

irvin00 said:


> But the again, my opinion should be taken with a Gibraltar-rock sized grain of salt:


as should mine as well......:yes4:


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

BigJimAK said:


> With those ya have a well-rounded too box... WAIT.. Aren't toolboxes rectangular??!!!



You wouldn't even think that if you saw my tool box from 8th grade metals shop. It even fell apart between the doors of the school and the door of the school bus :cray: Guess them spot welds weren't up to the banging of kids getting onto a bus.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

irvin00 said:


> One obvious drawback to Pat Warner's fence design (other than the astronomical price) is the fact that so many crevices and little buttons and dials and parts are a magnet for dust and a nightmare to clean. Also, so many little parts providing adjustment only serve to increase the chances that some measurement will be off somewhere (I'm scared of what looks like a pressure valve in the pictures )
> 
> But the again, my opinion should be taken with a Gibraltar-rock sized grain of salt: I'm a hobbyist with a passion for KISS methods and devices.
> 
> YMMV.



I have a dirt (I mean $35-) circular saw from Skil. It is noisy, cheaply made, and I wonder how the thing actually lasts. But sofar it's gone through three houses and is still chugging along. I bought a Porter Cable top-end circular saw, left handed. I haven't gone through a quarter of this house and the safety guard got plugged up with sawdust and damned near took off my brother-in-law's leg. 

So much for over-engineering. Cheaper is obviously not worse. Beware of close tolerances where looseness is needed.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Talking about Skill power hand saw the best one I have is the Skill worm gear one, it's a bit of a tank but it will do any job I ask of it..and has done that for about 20 years or so..

Amazon.com: Skil SHD77M 15 Amp 7-1/4-Inch Mag Worm Drive Circular Saw: Home Improvement

=======



allthunbs said:


> I have a dirt (I mean $35-) circular saw from Skil. It is noisy, cheaply made, and I wonder how the thing actually lasts. But sofar it's gone through three houses and is still chugging along. I bought a Porter Cable top-end circular saw, left handed. I haven't gone through a quarter of this house and the safety guard got plugged up with sawdust and damned near took off my brother-in-law's leg.
> 
> So much for over-engineering. Cheaper is obviously not worse. Beware of close tolerances where looseness is needed.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

AxlMyk said:


> 5 gallon buckets.


Yea.. and with a "Bucket Boss" you can carry *dozens* of screw-chisels.. each with it's own outline... (Borrowing HarrySin's big wooden spoon, wiping the dust off it from lack of use and stirring the pot) just like Harry's pegboard!! (Returning the spoon)


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

DerekO said:


> You wouldn't even think that if you saw my tool box from 8th grade metals shop. It even fell apart between the doors of the school and the door of the school bus :cray: Guess them spot welds weren't up to the banging of kids getting onto a bus.


Building a tool box to hold up to a team of fitters, millwrights or pipeliners is one thing, but an eighth grader getting on a bus?? :fie::lol:


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

DerekO said:


> the hammers (though neither one of us can nail straight)


That's why they invented pneumatic nailers.. just point & shoot! <g>


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi

A friend of mine said: the hammer is the only mechanical tools that work fine:sarcastic::sarcastic:

Cheers
Santé


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> That's why they invented pneumatic nailers.. just point & shoot! <g>


That's no guarantee Jim. I have a goodly collection of nailers none of which guarantee a straight nail, only straight trajectory. It still relies on the user to direct the nail correctly. A feat often attempted but seldom accomplished in my shop.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Santé said:


> Hi
> 
> A friend of mine said: the hammer is the only mechanical tools that work fine:sarcastic::sarcastic:
> 
> ...


Even then, you have to use it correctly!


----------



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

We have pneumatic nailers now, just not pin, roofing or framing ones. On THE LIST.

I did put a brad nail through my finger a couple of months ago. Right under the nail going sideways.

I also remember the crew repairing the pallet boxes during down time from unloading trucks or dumping pickles into tanks having contests seeing who could shoot a nail the furthest or who was the most accurate. Even though I was the supervisor, I seem to remember participating too. Maybe it was the year before I became supervisor 

As for the tool box, there were 9th graders too


----------



## irvin00 (Feb 14, 2010)

davcefai said:


> ...last night I was routing two 15mm dados to accept a 15mm plywood board. I was using a 10mm bit. I marked out the dados, routed to a depth of 9mm.
> 
> I then started moving the fence in 2mm increments to widen the slot. When close to the line I was able to move the fence in fractions of a mm until I got the tight push fit I wanted. The fence was held in place by the adjustment screw and I knew by how much I was moving it. On my fence 1turn = 1mm so I can control it to 1/5th of a turn which is 0.2mm.
> 
> How would you do this with a 2x4 and a mallet?


The truth lies in the middle, in my opinion: a good dose of precision is very useful - a 2x4 and a hammer is not the best combo, of course. But being completely anal about microscopic adjustments is the other extreme. A whole industry is built -and thrives - on this quest for unnecessary perfection.

In other words: I believe more than a 2x4 plus hammer is needed, but I also think that Pat Warner's fence is just ridiculous and unnecessarily complicated, a la Rube Goldberg:

goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/rube-goldberg~s600x600.gif


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

irvin00 said:


> The truth lies in the middle, in my opinion: a good dose of precision is very useful - a 2x4 and a hammer is not the best combo, of course. But being completely anal about microscopic adjustments is the other extreme. A whole industry is built -and thrives - on this quest for unnecessary perfection.
> 
> In other words: I believe more than a 2x4 plus hammer is needed, but I also think that Pat Warner's fence is just ridiculous and unnecessarily complicated, a la Rube Goldberg:
> 
> goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/rube-goldberg~s600x600.gif


I agree. Joints & profiles can be achieved with every method listed, but I doubt that anything made on the router table is going to be installed on the space shuttle. Even if your fence was perfectly 90deg to the table is your work piece? 

For the hardwood pieces I use 4/4 stock (not found at home depot or lowes) It is usually 13/16" thick. I get my settings flush to the eye & feel. I'm sure they often can be adjusted a few thousanths either way but after I assemble & put thru drum sander it is flat & flush so who cares what the setting was afterwards. Most projects get some sanding & finish applied after it is assembled & nobody will know how many thousands you were to a perfect joint. Wood will move anyway so who will know how many thousands off you were to a perfect joint. Besides your perfect measurement might be different than the next guy anyway. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

> The truth lies in the middle,


Now you've got it.

I expound only what must be said, not that I believe it but to cause you to reflect and from that reflection comes an understanding and thus an informed decision.


----------



## davcefai (Aug 3, 2009)

I would call Pat Warner's fence beauifully, not over, engineered. I have built a loose "adaptation" of the upper part, mounted directly on the table. It's sloppy and miles away from looking as good as his.

Dust is not a problem. The dust extraction takes care of most of it. What escapes tends to be thrown to the left of the table, not behind the fence.


----------



## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> I use a micrometer adjustment method too -- it's called a hammer. One little tap and my fence is adjusted 0.0001". One medium tap = 0.001" and one heavy tap 0.01" Rob Rozendahl calls it the "fine adjusting tool."


Kind of old to follow up on but I need the count.

Get some printer paper and/or card stock. Do a Google search for "paper thickness" without quotes. Find out the thickness of the weight of paper you have. Put several thicknesses of paper between your primary and/or secondary fence. Remove pieces as necessary. If you have a spit fence and are "planning", add paper thicknesses as necessary to the outbound fence side.


----------



## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all

This is more confortable


----------



## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

irvin00 said:


> That fence looks quite "over-engineered" to me. And the price is ridiculously high...but that's just my opinion.


The only difference between a man and a boy is the price of his toys.


----------

