# Dust collection advice



## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

I am ready to set up my dust collection. I have HF collector. The collector has a 5 inch outlet with a 4" y adapter. I want to use 6" ducting for the main run. Can I eliminate the "Y" adapter and use an adapter to go from 5" to 6'' at the outlet? Also I would like to eliminate the bags altogether and vent directly to the outside. Are there any issues in doing this??


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

You would still have a 5" minimum size restricting air flow. I have the same 5" limitation on my Grizzly. I have thought about just cutting the hole out to 6", or just replacing the cover/port with one from a newer 6" model.

As for venting outside, it will work well enough. But, if your are conditioning the inside air, could raise your air conditioning cost considerable. Also need to think about where the dust is going to go... have open space enough that it won't bother you or your neighbors... should be ok.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

I'm assuming you bought the 2HP DC? What is the length of your run? The number of drops and what diameter are they?

I have that DC. only a 20 foot run with 2- 4" drops with gates, 2 2-1/2" drops with gates.... 4" and 2-1/2" pairs. One pair at 10', other at the end at 20'... I used 4" ABS for my run, and used 4" abs tees. Adapted the 4" ABS drops to DWS. from there to hoses.

I have a trash can cyclone separator before the DC, then a cartridge filer in place of the filter bag.

That DC would not keep up with my TSS saw. It has a 4" DC and the base, 3" on the overhead guard. I had to mod it with a 12" impeller to up the flow. Then have to use a cartridge because the mod and increased flow cause too much back pressure at their filter bag (not enough flow through it). The vacuum itself stock was less than 7 water ". Afetr mod... if I use a single 1-1/4 hose to a smaller tool, I have to partially open another gate to keep from callaing the drop lines or my HD metal trash can separator. 

Let me explain what Duane was implying about changes of diameter ducting. DC's work through flow rate to keep the particle suspended until they get to a separator, where the particles then lose suspension. That is why separators work... the flow opens up in diameter, a cyclone swirl effect, where the particles move to the outside, where it loses speed and drops out of suspension. You get from a 4" inlet in the separator, at an angle to cause a swirls, into a large area... and there is varied speed of flow from the center to the outside diameter. 

Say you start at 4" duct at your table saw. You get to the 5" duct... and you will lose some of that suspension. True, overall, the flow will be the same throughout, because you have nothing less than 4" but the flow rate will still vary between the two ends.

Now, with a small DC that was over-etstimated on it's flow... something like that will lose some of your effectiveness where it might effect your flow... or not. If a short run run, you might not even notice...


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## PawPawRay (Apr 5, 2009)

That's what I'm working on now for my shop. I made a cyclone collector that catches all the large stuff and the back of my shop faces woods so the small particles will just blow off into nowhere. My shop is only 20 x 20 and I have adapted all my tools to accept the same size hose connecter. Bought an outside dryer vent that closes when the air is not flowing on the outside of the shop. Will update when I get it finished.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Mine is the same DC. Can't comment on the hose sizes as everything mine connects to is 4". Well, one comment...why not use a 5" to 4" reducer at the machines?
Mine is vented outside. My shop is 24X36 and it's heated. Have not noticed an appreciable loss of heat by venting outside. Did notice an appreciable increase in the DC's efficiency and really like the added space by getting those bags out of the shop. Not to mention not having to empty and clean them. 
I'm in N. AZ at 6500', so AC is not the concern it might be in PHX.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi Mike, This explains what I did in our small shop. Although we are only using a 1HP HF unit, it does work very well. We have absolutely no problems with fine dust outside on the grass or sidewalk.

http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/42796-dust-collection-finally.html 

Dick


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

Dust collection is an entire subject unto itself. Remember there are several components to running HVAC (that's what it really is) The larger the line dia the lower the velocity and thus you may not be able to move objects and dust may accumulate on the walls as the velocity is lower due to laminer flow charasteristics. A 2" line will provide greater velocity but lower total CFM. The only generality that seems to work is buy the most CFM and vacum pressure (-"Hg) you can afford and let it suck like the dickens, other than that use your pen and paper before you purchase anything.

Good Luck Baker


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

You could adapt the 5" to 6", don't know if you would gain enough to be worth it or not. I plan to vent my 2Hp HF outside when I get a chance, I already vent my 1Hp HF outside and like it. Both of my DC's pull through a Thien style separator and I really like that.


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks for all the info. I am not quite sure what to do at this point. My shop is a barn design so I have plenty of room on the second level for the DC and to run the main ducting and then down through the ceiling for the secondary's . With this in mind I really need to get it right the first time. I have attached a diagram of the way I intend to lay out my shop. Any constructive criticism, suggestion's would be appreciated .


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mine runs around the perimeter of my shop so I'm not sure how well your idea will work. It will require more energy to lift the particles to the loft than my method. That is a fact of physics. I just don't know how much more energy will be needed and whether some of the material will drop out of suspension or not get picked up. Since you say this is a one time shot it would be a good idea to do some testing first and try putting your DC in the loft and run a hose down the outside wall and see what it can pick up and whether a bunch of dust comes back down the pipe when you turn the DC off.


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## gsxrdemo (Dec 15, 2010)

Mike, I agree with Chuck that the HF DC will not be strong enough and you will be disappointed at best. I have this DC and I put a Wynn Filter on it and I'm in the process of putting the Super Dusty Deputy in line. My shop is only 18' by 18' and I run all 4" pipe on the diagonal and all the way to each tool with no reductions when possible. The HF DC won't keep the dust suspended using 6" pipe. I would use no larger than 5" but that's a nightmare. This DC is so cheap, have you considered two of them on opposite ends to cut down on your duct run length. I guess some may just say buy one 3HP DC and be done.


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## gsxrdemo (Dec 15, 2010)

*1 big or 2 small*

Based on your drawing, I would get two HF DC's or one nice 3 HP DC. Probably spend the same in the end. My HF DC has a Wynn Nano filter and I'm currently working on installing a Super Dust Deputy in line. All my lines are 4" up to each machine where appropriate and only 1' to 2' of flex if any at all.


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## gsxrdemo (Dec 15, 2010)

Any updates/pics?


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

Woodalyahave said:


> Mike, I agree with Chuck that the HF DC will not be strong enough and you will be disappointed at best. I have this DC and I put a Wynn Filter on it and I'm in the process of putting the Super Dusty Deputy in line. My shop is only 18' by 18' and I run all 4" pipe on the diagonal and all the way to each tool with no reductions when possible. The HF DC won't keep the dust suspended using 6" pipe. I would use no larger than 5" but that's a nightmare. This DC is so cheap, have you considered two of them on opposite ends to cut down on your duct run length. I guess some may just say buy one 3HP DC and be done.


Are you happy the way your DC performs the way you have it set up? Also, by venting directly out side with no bag will that improve the performance?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Bags restrict airflow so no bag(s) will make a difference.


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

Ok I think I am convinced to go with a larger unit.Any feed back on the shop fox DC. I have found 2 on CL which I think I can get one for about $250. New I can pick up for about $600. Here are the specs.

•Motor size: 3 HP, 220V, Single-phase, 3,450 RPM
•Motor Amp draw: 220V - 18A
•Impeller: 13" balanced steel radial fin
•Maximum inlet size: 8"
•Inlet adapter: 4-way x 4" inlets
•Air suction cap.: Approx. 2,800 CFM
•Static pressure: 14.4
•Bag size (Dia. x depth): 19" x 33" (4)
•Height (with bags inflated): 78"
•Bag volume: 10.8 Cubic Feet
•Standard bag filtration: 30 Micron
•Approx. shipping weight: 170 lbs.


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

I was able to get the Shop Fox for $200. I will be picking it up this weekend. I will post an up date once I have it home and wired up.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

I know this is a late reply but whenever dust collection is concerned, you should read every page on this website.

Dust Collection Research - Home


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## gsxrdemo (Dec 15, 2010)

Mike,
Just keep in mind that you have no guarantees with Craigslist. Don't purchase it if you can't test it. That's why I went with harbor freight and purchased the warranty so if it goes out, no big deal, they will replace it. Just a thought.


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

I completely agree. I have furnished my shop almost completely with used equipment much of it from Craig's list. If you inspect them closely and test your purchases you have a pretty good chance of making out OK. So far I have been "lucky" and I have not regretted a single purchase other than buying something I wanted but didn't really need where the money could have been better spent on something else!

I am going to pick it up tomorrow and hopefully my "luck" holds out and I come home with a DC that fulfills my needs.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

*Danger: Sawdust information link.*

I downloaded and attached a very detailed article on dust collection and put it into a PDF for anyone who wants to read it. It is LONG. The last few paragraphs made me break out in a sweat and immediately begin planning how to vent the dust collection outside without annoying my neighbors. The shop is small and there is so many items, stands, tools on the floor that the fine dust is everywhere and almost impossible to reach. So it is clean out time. The floor space has to be cleared first so I can clean it out, the venting has to be outside rather than having the bag inside. I have to leave the fan driven air filter/cleaner on a lot longer, and I'm putting my active, positive air flow dust mask on and storing it in a case right by the door so its easy to reach immediately. I've had a nagging cough for awhile, and after reading this, I now understand why. Hope I haven't created too much damage so far. The article is specific to a home shop and has many illustrations.:sad:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

RJM60 said:


> I know this is a late reply but whenever dust collection is concerned, you should read every page on this website.
> 
> Dust Collection Research - Home


I read the article and think it is so important for home shops that I converted it into a pdf and uploaded it here. This article made me break out in a sweat and immediately start making plans to vent to the outside. I also began the process of cleaning out the shop. It is compact and full of stuff, stands, accessories, tools, so all the floor space is covered and there is hidden sawdust everywhere! So, I'm getting everything possible off the floor and only movable stands will be there. I'm going to make a fairly flat box large enough to hold 2 20x24 filters side by side. Will be about 6 inches thick with a hinged top so I can change filters often. 

I'll direct the output of the blower through the wall and into the back side of this box, with a small deflector to force the air and dust to disperse a bit into the box. I have a 4 inch system with flex hose to go to whatever machine I'm using at the moment. I am going to have to revive my old shop vac since the 4 inch system is just too large to do counters and shelves and nooks and crannies of the shop and tools. 

Meanwhile, I'm going to be a religious user of a dust mask I got at Rockler that has a small fan in it to create positive air pressure and pull the air through the filter. It uses 4 AA batteries so I'll keep a couple of sets charged at a time. I have a 20 inch square filter and fan hanging from the ceiling to filter the air, but I have never just let it run for 3-4 hours at at time, which I think is needed to pull all the fine particles out of the air. I'm going to put a more powerful fan in it, perhaps a blower of some sort. I hope you'll take time to download and read the article--it is excellent and will stir you out of lethargy regarding sawdust.:sad:


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