# Lion Mitre Knife goes under the knife...



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

...and now a word from our sponsor...

So I took out all the tools needed to disassemble the Lion...a 5/8" open end and a flat screwdriver...not a single Phillips in sight

First off were the 90 deg cams, made of brass, then the 45's. The 45's are actually two parts...the upper part where the screw head is exposed including a button head to hold the fence at 45...and a lower cast aluminum cup holding the threads and capturing a spring and post. Doesn't fly all over the place but needed to stand the Lion on it's back to hold both pieces...then all the small parts into a small plastic bin.

Then the fences also held in place by springs and clamping screws for holding a set angle...easy enough...but ya gotta wiggle 'em a bit...cast does not bend BTW... The clamping wing nuts also press against a T-pin that then presses against the deck plate to hold the fences at angles other than 90 and 45.

With the 5/8 wrench the post carriage bolts come off easy enough. Nuts were clean, shiny and looked brand new, threads were clean and nuts spun off by finger. These posts hold the blade guards (ears on either side of the posts), top rail for the top knife slide and hold the knife plate in the lower slide. These slides are nothing more than capture rabbets to allow the knife plate to slide left and right. Between the lower plate and the knife plate there's a big gear that transfers the rotation of the handle to a left right motion for the knife plate. The slide edges turned out to be crisp and clean...no chips, no rounding...and important to the knives making a proper cut...like a scissor.

Once the carriage bolts came off everything comes apart...but beware the two roll pins on the bottom and the one on top that aligns the posts to the upper plate and the lower deck plate...PHEW...almost a catastrophe...

You've seen those National Geographic documentaries where they show how a lion lays in wait for its prey to come closer...???? Well the knives on this baby do the same thing...sitting patiently waiting for you to make a mistake... Nope...didn't get me yet... 

So now the deck plate is completely free of all the parts and ready to be cleaned...

Please note that I haven't cleaned the knives at all...nope, not one bit...that's the way I got 'em...see how they're just sitting there, smiling, waiting...

As you run your fingers, gently mind you, across the surface of the plate you can feel some small bumps...no more than the goose bumps on my own arms and back of the neck...gotta go. No, not mine...mine won't go away for a while... 

I did a quick wipe down of the parts, light degunking of the plate and made sure all the parts were lightly oiled while they await the heavy duty cleaning. In the last picture you can see the right side being more pitted than the left...Apparently the left was used more than the right...never saw one of those frames before (only left miters) 

Chapter Two - The Real Cleaning (to be continued)... :dance3:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Nickp...

WHEW!!!!
thought I lost you there...

time for DIY rust remover and some DIY cutting fluid...
rub that deck out w/ a diamond honing stone and cutting fluid...
good to go...

mark up the surface w/ a felt tip so when you start the polishing you'll be able to read the flatness and where the ''high'' spots....


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

So..wanted to show before and after 2nd cleaning...

Method...small circular motion to the right...continue til arm falls off...then wipe down clean and start over circling in opposite direction...repeat until shoulder burns and goes numb...repeat with other side of body...

Tools...400 wet dry with hard flat block behind, 2x2'ish

Ingredients...Stick's Mix No. 7, cutting oil, posted yesterday...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Nick, it sounds to me like you'll be needing a short vacation pretty soon with all that work. I'm thinking a visit to western Canada might be right up your alley.

Just in case you need something to keep you occupied I have a couple of tools which would benefit from your obvious expertise. Dinner on me of course. 

Looking pretty darned good so far...probably even better than when it was brand new!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks, Keith...truly a labor of love...

Next will be the planes and irons with my brandy new Veritas MKii

Thanks for the invite...hope you wont mind me turning it down...have to replenish the elbow grease...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

impressive Nick...
ambitious too...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Nickp said:


> Thanks, Keith...truly a labor of love...
> 
> Next will be the planes and irons with my brandy new Veritas MKii
> 
> ...


You're gonna love that MK II. Not sure if mine is MK II or not...I've had it for several years now. Works like a charm. :smile:


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

For those that want to know more about the Lion Miter trimmers:

https://mvflaim.wordpress.com/2015/01/22/using-a-lion-miter-trimmer/


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I seem to remember Lee Valley selling the Lion trimmer years ago. Anyone else recall that? Price somewhere around $350 or so...

Wish I had been able to keep my old LV annual catalogues, they were a great resource for tool information of the day.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

they sell knock off now...
it's a good tool..

Miter Trimmer - Lee Valley Tools


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> they sell knock off now...
> it's a good tool..
> 
> Miter Trimmer - Lee Valley Tools


Yes, I know that. But I'm pretty sure I remember the Lion name from years ago. Maybe in the '80's? 

I remember being stunned at the price back then.

Do you have any of the old LV catalogues Stick?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Here are some more, but die hards will tell you the Lion is better. They all appear to be made by the same company:

Miter Trimmer | Grizzly Industrial

Miter Trimmer | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware

http://woodworker.com/cast-iron-mite...r&searchmode=2

I have never used the imports so I couldn't say, I would like to try one out though. If they really are as good as a Lion it's a great deal. A Lion Trimmer in semi decent fixable shape in need of 100 plus repairs and a lot of time could cost twice that of the new imports. Generally a rusted old lion cost 150 to 250.

In today's dollars a new lion would cost over 400.00 so I am not so sure a new one could compare,. An old Lion tuned up shaved what seemed like thousandth's of an inch with no crushing of the wood. I read though some of the reviews and it appear some love it, but almost anytime someone had used lion and compares gives the newer units one or two stars. It could be that the people that never used a nicely working Lion don't know what they are missing , possibly some of us are biased only because of nostalgia of the old units.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

The plot thickens. Rocker shipped to Canada $348...Grizzly in the U.S. $190. Quite a difference.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Looking good Nick. Already an impressive difference between the before and after shots.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you all...especially for all the additional info...

BTW...the knife, planes, two Bessey 48 clamps and a wooden clamp $150... 

...still running from the cops...

Craigslist has another Lion for 100...New Jersey...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Anyone got any feedback about the Griz version of this? I've searched high and low for an original Lion with no success, and I don't fancy resurrecting one (not fun to me) The Grizzly site has one for $189 while the same thing on Amazon is $209. I have gotten picture frame angles down pretty well on the table saw by using a full kerf blade and working to carefully set yup the 45 on my Rockler sled, but for the final touch, this trimmer looks like the thing to use. Comments invited. My wife is showing some of her paintings today, and I'd sure like to make instead of buy custom and oversize frames.

I guess matte cutting comes next. Holy cow, yet another tool.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes, I know that. But I'm pretty sure I remember the Lion name from years ago. Maybe in the '80's?
> 
> I remember being stunned at the price back then.
> 
> Do you have any of the old LV catalogues Stick?


no catalogs...
just the trimmer...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Thank you all...especially for all the additional info...
> 
> BTW...the knife, planes, two Bessey 48 clamps and a wooden clamp $150...
> 
> ...


DRT needs that link...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> DRT needs that link...


I was wrong...$110...

But it will need the cleaning etc...it looks lite it has a bit more rust and not sure of the condition of the blades.

Here it is... miter trimmer

Maybe Bill should expand his service to cleaning and restoring...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that is a bit rough...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> that is a bit rough...


I see by your signature you read my other post...teehee...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> no catalogs...
> just the trimmer...


Sheesh. Some guys have all the luck! :smile:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Nickp said:


> I was wrong...$110...
> 
> But it will need the cleaning etc...it looks lite it has a bit more rust and not sure of the condition of the blades.
> 
> ...


I already do that with hand planes and handsaws. This would be a piece of cake...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Nickp said:


> So..wanted to show before and after 2nd cleaning...
> 
> Method...*small circular motion to the right...continue til arm falls off...then wipe down clean and start over circling in opposite direction...repeat until shoulder burns and goes numb...repeat with other side of body...*
> 
> ...


I may have missed it but I didn't see any mention of "rinse and repeat" Did you forget that or did I miss it??


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Nickp said:


> Method...small circular motion to the right...continue til arm falls off...then wipe down clean and start over circling in opposite direction...repeat until shoulder burns and goes numb...repeat with other side of body...
> 
> ...


its all about technique!!!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> I may have missed it but I didn't see any mention of "rinse and repeat" Did you forget that or did I miss it??


Maybe both...  But yes, lots of repeat...I actually like the action of the slurry so I leave it til it gets in the way...besides...nice surprise when you wipe it off


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Ordered the Grizzly. Went to an artist meeting Friday where a master frame maker visited and showed his work. He did a frame for us and has a Lion in his store. Next comes a visit to the lumber supplier to see what kind of stock he has pre milled. I have a set of frame making router bits, so I could make my own. If you're married to an artist, you are in the frame making biz.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

My wife was into buying prints for a while, then she bugged me about getting them framed so we went to a framing shop. The profiles we liked were $25/foot of molding. The 2 prints she wanted done were fairly big and would have cost about $200 per frame. I took a look and realized that I could do that with about 4-6 bits in multiple passes. I rigged up a router in horizontal position and it was a piece of cake, just time consuming.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> My wife was into buying prints for a while, then she bugged me about getting them framed so we went to a framing shop. The profiles we liked were $25/foot of molding. The 2 prints she wanted done were fairly big and would have cost about $200 per frame. I took a look and realized that I could do that with about 4-6 bits in multiple passes. I rigged up a router in horizontal position and it was a piece of cake, just time consuming.


and if you had a miter trimmer...
LOOK OUT!!!!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Watch out Chuck! Stick is just bragging again! >


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Watch out Chuck! Stick is just bragging again! >


about WHAT???


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

ruh...roh...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> ruh...roh...


have you checked on the safety and well being of your trimmer lately??


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> have you checked on the safety and well being of your trimmer lately??


Obviously, not! You just had to say something, didn't you? Now he's gonna go look...there goes the head start.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Obviously, not! You just had to say something, didn't you? Now he's gonna go look...there goes the head start.


ahhhhh but....

After conferring w/ several very reliable sources I have come to the belief that Cherryville, DaninVan, TwoSkies along w/ possibly Semipro, not to mention several other shady individuals are mounting a clandestine operation of their own to transfer Eastern ''Ole Arn'', LLC's assets to their TO&E ...
I attempted to bring this to EOAW's attention that their ''Ole Arn'' was very likely in jeopardy and the CEO needs to avail his establishment of our services sooner rather than later...

FWIW...
They have more at risk than a 4100 and ''Thee Lion''... There is also the Dara James, the Ole Delta Joiner, planes from 1900 (give or take 10 years), and ancient machine shop tools and equipment to name but a few......

so... Bill...
Secure the contract before all is for naught...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> ahhhhh but....
> 
> After conferring w/ several very reliable sources I have come to the belief that Cherryville, DaninVan, TwoSkies along w/ possibly Semipro, not to mention several other shady individuals are mounting a clandestine operation of their own to transfer Eastern ''Ole Arn'', LLC's assets to their TO&E ...
> I attempted to bring this to EOAW's attention that their ''Ole Arn'' was very likely in jeopardy and the CEO needs to avail his establishment of our services sooner rather than later...
> ...


Patience! Once he discovers the violation it should nudge him in the right direction. ...our terms...without arguments.

When we "find", and return the tools, then...signed, sealed, and delivered.

By the way nice touch implicating the others, misdirection is always fun.

Just keep your eye on the long game.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

what misdirection...
tune into rumor Control...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> what misdirection...
> tune into rumor Control...


We need to back up and rethink this. I was sure that the latest actions would spur him into action. It has been 24 hours and no contact. Hmmm, maybe it's time for the horse head in the bed trick!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

maybe the ''other'' operation happened and Nick is now collateral damage as a result of it...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

...thought we were using the other thread...that's where all the negotiations have been held...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> ...thought we were using the other thread...that's where all the negotiations have been held...


okay...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just received the Griz miter cutter. Heavy bugger! And, its much larger than the pictures suggest. Nearly 18 inches across and the base plate is a good 7 inches or so. Its still in the box (just arrived) but I'll get it out tomorrow and as soon as possible will report on the unit. Every once in awhile, you get your hands on a tool that you can't wait to try out, and this is one of them. I also bought a couple of accessories, one is a very nice set of aluminum L brackets used to hold stop blocks so lengths are equal, and a 45 degree vertical cut attachment mostly for cutting L shaped stock for something like a shadow box. Next step is to degrease, check for accuracy and then....slice slice.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Congrats, Tom...hurry up and enjoy...slice away...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

OK, set up the new Grizzly miter trimmer, cleaned the oil off, slid the lever in place, and tried it out. I'd pre-cut four pieces that didn't quite go square, so I ran them through the trimmer and voila, perfect frame! There is a scribed mark for the 90 and the 45, and they are dead on from the factory. No big surprise, it came packed in a foam filled box that was inside a second, larger box. No wonder it arrived perfect. I can see that if you're building frames, you MUST have this trimmer. Tight joints that form perfect corners. The cut surface on a test piece of Birch was like glass to the touch and close to that to the eye. I will say that those blades look kind of mean. I'm going to mount this on a hunk of ply with handles so I can keep as far as possible from those surgically sharp blades. Great tool!

Next step is to check out sources for framing stock. Any ideas about that?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Found several sources of framing stock at the lumber yard, and a limited number of designs at HD and a few more at Lowes. The lumber yard has some very fancy stock in some interesting varieties of wood. Whole new area of interest for me. 

What I didn't think about when I got this for miters, is that it is a wonder for perfect 90 degree cuts. Faceframes that are perfect. All right.

I am realizing that to make frames for oil paintings, I will need in some cases, to glue some additional material to the back of thin frame materials to create a "rabbit" for the canvas and stretcher to sit in. The possibilities are a bit boggling. I'll post some pix soon.

Next comes learning more about finishing.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; I was curious about online suppliers (wholesale)...
Some good looking stuff out there!
Omega Moulding - Virtual Catalogs
The shipping is likely no more than the markup at the Big Box(?).
Didn't delve into it far enough to figure out the minimum billing.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Tom; I was curious about online suppliers (wholesale)...
> Some good looking stuff out there!
> Omega Moulding - Virtual Catalogs
> The shipping is likely no more than the markup at the Big Box(?).
> Didn't delve into it far enough to figure out the minimum billing.


I found several sources online and know frame shops order that way, but the ones I found were all wholesale houses and require a tax number and a bulk order. Thanks for the link Dan, I'll check it out Shipping is likely to be the same or less than buying at the lumber yard since my old truck is lucky to get 16mpg, and its 60 miles each way, uphill on the return. Advantage of buying locally is that my wife can pick the material she wants, disadvantage is that online stuff seems to be pre finished and more complex.

HD stock is only 8 ft, which barely makes one smaller frame whereas the online and lumber yard stock is much longer. A lot of waste in frame making. 

I also have to make canvas stretchers, the wood frame the canvas is stretched on. She wants a 36 inch square canvas, and that will take 3, eight foot pieces of pine to produce. I think of it as a trial run. Making a frame for the result will consume at least two eight foot lengths of the good stuff. I'll likely keep the offcuts until I finally realize they will be useless.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

OK, went over to Lowes and found their rack of picture frame molding. Much better selection than HD, and stored better so not so much warping. Most of this stock is meant to be added to an underlayment of pine. So slight bend will be easy to get rid of and I can likely use a pinner. Sort of working this out in public.


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