# Oak-Park style table questions



## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

Getting ready to build a very basic Router Table similar to what they use on TRW.

The fences they use appear to be some sort of PTFE...? But when I check suppliers, that stuff is expen$ive.

1) Seems to me that maybe some PVC molding boards might work as well as the PTFE, and MUCH less expensive. Any opinions?

2) As far as building a square Router Base, mostly so I can drop it into a cutout in the table top, what type of plastic would use use? Again, I looked at the price of Phenolic sheet, and it ain't cheap. I assume that acrylic would work as well?

??


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Art take a known straight edge to a wood working store in your area and see what is straight and what isn't. I bet the only thing you will dead flat is an aluminum plate. They ain't cheap either. We all wish good wood working tools and accessories were cheap but they aren't. :crying:


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## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

I know what you are saying, but not sure how PVC would be any less straight than PTFE? But I will definitely take a straight edge to make sure before I buy.

And aren't there a number of folks on this forum who have used acrylic to make a base? 

I believe that somewhere in my junk pile I have some 3/16" Lexan. I would think that would work.

As far as lumber, well these days I think you are darn lucky to find _anything_ straight.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Art, the Oak Park fences are HDPE and their plates were a phenolic I have been unable to find. PVC boards for the fences would most likely work. No to acrylic for a mounting plate... it will sag. The best solution I have found is the very inexpensive Grizzly mounting plate. You should spend the money for Baltic birch plywood, it is very stable with no voids. There are Sticky threads with the dimensions for my economy table and converting C clamps. Moderator BrianS looks so serious rounding over the edge on that top.


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## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

Mike - I bookmarked your Economy Table thread and will definitely refer to it.

Re: the Grizzly mounting plate, Does it replace the stock router base? I am hoping to use a square plate mounted to the Router, so I can use it freehand or drop it in quickly and use it as a table Router, like on TRW. Looks like a great deal.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

For what it's worth, MLCS offers square (approx 11 3/4 in, 30 cm square) in both 1/4 in an 3/8 in thicknesses. these These can be easily cut to size. The 3/8 in thick plates can be purchased, for additional price, with pre drilled center holes. 
https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/routacc1.html#Super_Tuff_Anchor


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Art, the Grizzly plate replaces the black or clear sub base plate on your router. Before you remove it I highly recommend that you buy a Rousseau centering kit which includes the centering pin, disk longer mounting screws and transfer screws to fit your router.(Woodcraft for this kit) Infinity offers a similar kit minus the centering screws which you can find at any good hardware store. The two Bosch centering cones are actually identical; the pin can be reversed. I have two on hand so I don't need to reverse them. DeWalt also offers a centering cone with a much smaller diameter and I do not recommend it.

Once you have your mounting plate, routers fixed base and centering kit ready remove the sub base plate and screws and put them in a zip lock bag. Be sure to label which router it is for!(I learned this the hard way) Install the transfer screws as shown an even number of turns in each hole. The Bosch 1617(shown) uses 4 screws to mount or you can also use the PC three hole mounting pattern with larger screws. The centering disk snaps into the PC sized hole in the plate; then flip the plate over making sure the two small safety starting pin holes are towards you. Install the centering pin in a 1/4" collet and then insert it in the center hole. Lightly tap the routers base with a mallet or piece of wood and the transfer screws will make small dimples marking the exact spots to drill through.

There are jigs you can buy or make and attach to your router for specific jobs. When installing them or replacing your sub base plate on your router the centering cone assures you are correctly centered. i remove the knobs from the router base when table mounting, this makes for easier adjustments in the table. Plate mounted routers can also be used free hand and have added stability.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Dang, Mike! You didn't leave me anything to add. 

I use a chunk of aluminum angle with MDF facing for my fence. MDF stays pretty flat and cheap to renew when I chew it up.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Didn't notice this in the post so far, but if you're making your own table, consider making it with two layers of 3/4 material. Top of very flat baltic birch ply, underneath a layer of MDF. Carefully glue the two layers together. Glue a layer of laminate on top. Cut out the rough shape of the opening about half an inch smaller on each of the four sides, than the size of the plate. Place the plate on the blank table and mark the outline then use a half inch spacer to mark the inside cut line. This allows for the 1/2 inch rabbit that will hold the router up.

Next, lay the plate back into the outline and snug some straight edged boards up agains the four sides of the plate and clamp them down very tightly. Give yourself a little wiggle room by placing playing cards between the plate edge and boards. Push the plate out, and with a hand held router and a top bearing trim bit set to cut a rabbit slightly deeper than the thickness of the plate, cut a rabbit the size of the plate using the four boards as your template. Some companies will sell you a template for their plate. BTW, get aluminum as Mike recommends.

Drill holes in the rabbit smaller than the coarse thread leveling screws you will pas. through them. This will take up the slight gap and allow you to set the plate level with the table top. BTW, if you are not excited about gluing up 3 layers of different material, you could just buy a short section of assembled, new laminate and attach a layer of MDF or Baltic Birch ply to strengthen the top. 

You can buy leveling screws on Amazon or a woodworking store.

At some point in the future, you may wish to install a router lift so you can adjust height from above the table. Instead, consider buying a Triton routher that has a lift already installed. The router is actually cheaper than most separate lifts.

Before you decide to install any kind of miter track, I suggest you watch some of the YouTube videos by Marc Sommerfeld, whose technique (and table plan and parts) is pretty much flawless, will affect how you decide on your final build. There are many things he does on the table that will really make you more productive with your own table.

Hope this doesn't put you off on your table, it makes routing more precise and safer than trying to do things freehand. If I can figure out how to do something on the table rather than freehand, on the table it goes.


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## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

OK - I guess what I need is good enough material to support about 12# of Router. I think I am leaning towards a square plate, so it can be dropped into the table in any direction. 

What size would you recommend? My guess is it would have to be as large as the width of the two handles (at least)?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

username1 said:


> OK - I guess what I need is good enough material to support about 12# of Router. I think I am leaning towards a square plate, so it can be dropped into the table in any direction.
> 
> What size would you recommend? My guess is it would have to be as large as the width of the two handles (at least)?


Never seen a square plate, always rectangular. You may wind up removing the handles. You can buy some plates pre drilled for certain common router bolt patterns.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

One last detail from my own experience cutting in a larger router plate in my existing table. I forgot to make sure the set screw in the bearing on the pattern bit was really tight and it slipped loose and messed up the rabbit. No serious damage done, but it is ugly. Don't forget the playing cards for a bit of wiggle room when inserting the plate! Now, how would I know that?


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## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> Never seen a square plate, always rectangular. You may wind up removing the handles. You can buy some plates pre drilled for certain common router bolt patterns.


I am basically attempting to copy what I saw on *"The Router Workshop"*. Their plates are square. And they also seem to get a LOT done with the cheapest of setups, which I admire. So that is what I am after!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Art there is no advantage to square that I am aware of. The most important is to make sure that the column lock is easily accessible and if you aren't using a remote switch then the one on the router needs to be easy to get to. This usually means that one side is always going to be in the same place.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Art, Bob and Rick supported this forum when it started. Grandson Mark(Rick's son) is the founder. Rick convinced me to try an Oak Park table and I am the biggest supporter on the web for Bob's "Keep it simple" methods. Moderator BrianS and I both own Oak Park tables and most of the jigs and fixtures. We built the Economy tables when Oak Park quit selling the RW items. You are in the right place for answers.

Trust me when I tell you that the $13 Grizzly mounting plate will do what you need.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Tom and Chuck, part of the reason the Router Workshop plates were square was so the safety starting pin holes would be in the proper place for routing across the table for most jobs or lengthwise for large jobs by just rotating 90º and dropping it in. Another reason was the special fixture they built for the Oak park templates dropped into the square hole.(Similar to the template shown) And remember that they used 3 hp plunge routers where the handles were not removable.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Mike said:


> Art, Bob and Rick supported this forum when it started. Grandson Mark(Rick's son) is the founder. Rick convinced me to try an Oak Park table and I am the biggest supporter on the web for Bob's "Keep it simple" methods. Moderator BrianS and I both own Oak Park tables and most of the jigs and fixtures. We built the Economy tables when Oak Park quit selling the RW items. You are in the right place for answers.
> 
> Trust me when I tell you that the $13 Grizzly mounting plate will do what you need.


 @Mike, if you and BrianS are the top proponents of Oak Park style router table I might be number 3. I also own most of the Oak Park jigs.

All of my router plates are either Oak Park or self-made plates drilled for specific routers. Bosch MRC23EVSK, Triton TRA001).

There is no inherent value in having a square plate; the plate needs only hold the router and fit into the plate. Personally I am mystified by the need for levelers; just keep the wood dust out of the table mounting.

One fly in the ointment: I have been unable to find the Grizzly plate; they seem to have discontinued it.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Mike said:


> Tom and Chuck, part of the reason the Router Workshop plates were square was so the safety starting pin holes would be in the proper place for routing across the table for most jobs or lengthwise for large jobs by just rotating 90º and dropping it in. Another reason was the special fixture they built for the Oak park templates dropped into the square hole.(Similar to the template shown) And remember that they used 3 hp plunge routers where the handles were not removable.


 @Mike, this response appeared as I was typing my immediately preceding post. I second your comments about why the Router Workshop (Oak Park) plates were square.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

You have to ask for part #10432047 if I remember correctly. :jester:

I usually buy 6 at a time.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Mike said:


> You have to ask for part #10432047 if I remember correctly. :jester:
> 
> I usually buy 6 at a time.


A search of the Grizzly site turns up a not found, but a Goggle search for the specific part leads to the Grizzly site at a price of $13.00


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Right Tom, you have to call and ask for the part to order it. When I first decided to announce the way to order this plate on the forums I called Grizzly and told them to make a huge reorder because they were about to be swamped with back orders. I was right.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

http://www.routerforums.com/kp91s-gallery/1708-router-table-upgrade.html#post18002

There's no limit with what you can do with the simple top from the oak park table. When I made my table bigger I left a gutter between the table sections for clamping the fence down. It's a very simple set up, but does everything you need. I have an original Incra jig that I play with on it from time to time, works great.

The OP miter gauge set up is fantastically simple and effective.

I wish they still sold all of the accessories


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

username1 said:


> I am basically attempting to copy what I saw on *"The Router Workshop"*. Their plates are square. And they also seem to get a LOT done with the cheapest of setups, which I admire. So that is what I am after!


If you've got your heart set on a Router Workshop style plate, get one from them. Oak Park Enterprises Ltd. - Router Table, Router, Router Bits, Router Jigs, Router Accessories They have limited stock still available, and are GREAT people to deal with. I have one of their tables, and I really like it. 

The ones that they have left might not be drilled for your router, but it's a relatively simple process to mark, and drill, the mounting holes for your router via the method that Mike described.


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## username1 (Jul 12, 2017)

Thanks for all the advice guys. Glad to see there are lots of fans for the K.I.S.S. method. 

I have also been a huge fan of The New Yankee Workshop for years, and I have the episode where Norm builds the "Deluxe Router Table". And it sure is NICE... but to me the Oak-Park style table is even more beautiful, because of its' simplicity.

I guess I am just a simple guy... 

BTW - If I were to order from the Oak-Park website, does anyone know what size they use on the show? Is it the 11"?


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

username1 said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys. Glad to see there are lots of fans for the K.I.S.S. method.
> 
> I have also been a huge fan of The New Yankee Workshop for years, and I have the episode where Norm builds the "Deluxe Router Table". And it sure is NICE... but to me the Oak-Park style table is even more beautiful, because of its' simplicity.
> 
> ...


The 11 inch are intended for table use; the 7 inch are replacements for hand held router bases. 

IMHO one of the greatest losses to the router community is the closing of the Oak Park store. I wish they had sold to someone else such as Lee Valley.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Art, "Norm's table" is actually a plan from Fine Woodworking Magazine. One of the forum members was selling the table for 6 months before Norm "Designed" his table.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

geesh!

April 1995, American Woodworker magazine came out with volume #44. In the volume they presented what they called a
"Revolutionary Router Table". Some time later Norm Abrams and the NYW production crew went to Emmaus Pa. to take a closer
looked at *Ellis Walentines' Design.* NYW spent the day critiquing the router table. Leaving with
every intention of designing their own version of the Walentine design. With Wele
ntine's blessings. 

In March of 1996 NYW aired Norm's version of the "Revolutionary Router Table" router table. 

That puts RT1000's table in production around Sept. 1995. (I need to add that by all accounts the RT1000 router tables are an excellent value and a top shelf line of tables....) So this is still 5 months AFTER the AW designed table came out...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mike said:


> Art, "Norm's table" is actually a plan from Fine Woodworking Magazine. One of the forum members was selling the table for 6 months before Norm "Designed" his table.


Apparently according to the information I have received this statement is not the case. These are the facts I was presented and they seem easily verifiable.

"In 1995 American woodworker published "April 1995 #44"...in that volume editor Ellis Walentine published his "Revolutionary Router Table"...
Several months later Norm Abrams and the New Yankee Workshop production crew went to Emmaus Pa. to visit with Ellis and the AW team. Specifically going there to look at the router table Walentine designed. NYW spent the day there going over the router tables pro's and cons'. Norm and the NYW team left with the intentions of "DESIGNING" their own version of Ellis's design, with Ellis's blessing.
In March of 96 NYW aired the "ROUTER TABLE" episode based on Ellis Walentine design."

According to this information Norm Abrams built his table based on the design published by American Woodworker months earlier and likely that article came out prior to the Forum member designed table if the period was indeed 6 months earlier than Norm's version. He furthermore did so with the blessing of the designer of the prototype, Ellis Walentine.

Therefore Mike, I would suggest you cease from suggesting that Norm Abrams plagiarized a Forum member's design in the future and it would also be a good idea to formally retract the statement you made.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I am sorry I said Fine Woodworking when it was American Woodworker... memory lapse. I did not claim Norm plagiarized anything; I said that a forum member was selling the table 6 months before Norms. I got that information from our member after a NYW rep told me the RT-1000 was theft of "Norm's Design."


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

@Mike 
With TV production,Norm could film 8 months before it viewed on TV!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I believe we have established that Ellis designed the table and he is the one who should get credit for it. I wish our member Joe would weigh in on this to fill in the details about the RT1000. Give credit where credit is due.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mike said:


> I am sorry I said Fine Woodworking when it was American Woodworker... memory lapse. I did not claim Norm plagiarized anything; I said that a forum member was selling the table 6 months before Norms. I got that information from our member after a NYW rep told me the RT-1000 was theft of "Norm's Design."


John makes a good point about production scheduling of TV shows and Norm may have made or had plans well in advance of Joe so it may have seemed that way to the NYW people but according to what I was given the design Norm came up with was a plagiarized version of another but which he was given permission to plagiarize. So the best course to follow here Mike is to not bring it up to start with. All anyone is really interested in here is the table and how well it works and who did what, when, and where is immaterial to the conversation.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> geesh!
> 
> April 1995, American Woodworker magazine came out with volume #44. In the volume they presented what they called a
> "Revolutionary Router Table". Some time later Norm Abrams and the NYW production crew went to Emmaus Pa. to take a closer
> ...


WoodCentral Articles & Reviews


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> WoodCentral Articles & Reviews


Those darn facts.....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Those darn facts.....


annoying ya say...


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