# Help With Making Woodworkers Workbench



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm making this woodworkers workbench Building a Real Woodworker's Workbench: 32 Steps (with Pictures)
It has 2 layers of 18mm MDF lamminated together and loosely attached to a solid Beech worktop. I've bought the Beech worktop and had the MDF cut to size at a DIY chain here in the UK. Also bought the two vice mechanisms also timber handles for them, and top quality Fisch Wave Cutter Forstner bit for drilling out the dog holes. Some people have commented as MDF and Beech different materials, movement may be a problem. The bench designer has overcome this tendency by loosely screwing the laminated MDF into the Beech top, so allowing movement to occur. I contacted him about how the bench stood up a few years down the road. He said the bench has stood up well and has no issues with movement.
As the MDF will be visible under the Beech top. I intend fixing a boarder edge band, covering the top and the MDF.
I'm wondering how I can go about fixing this boarder edge banding to allow for any movement that might occur? The only thing that comes to mind, is to counter bore loosely ( then screw ? ) into position, though if loose, won't it drop down onto the screws? If Beech is not exceptionally expensive would a thickness of 12mm or less be sufficient for the boarder edge banding? What thickness Beech would be suitable for the vice jaws I don't want to skimp on cost here, what thickness here would be most appropriate?
I understand Beech would be a good choice for the vice jaws and hope I get a close match to the top.
Thanks people.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow,Peter, I was wondering how they built one of those. Didn't realize how many tools it took. There are several people who have built similar wooden benches that should be along to help you. Be sure to post progress pictures of your build. Looks like you chose a good set of plans to work off of.
Herb


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

According to the instructions that you show, the edging strips were glued only to the double layer of MDF, and the finished assembly trimmed to match the size of the laminated wood top. I think that I would go ahead and follow those instructions. I'm assuming that the MDF would be attached to the u/s of the laminated wood top using screws and heavy flat washers into oversize holes in the MDF.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There's no problem adding on the edges. The grain in the band will match the grain orientation of the top. The problem is on the ends. That's where you'll get different orientations. Here's one solution: Lee Valley Tools - Veritas® Expansion Washers 

Jaw thickness should be a minimum of 30mm. I don't think there would be anything gained going more than 40. Once you start using that bench you'll wonder how you got along without it.


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## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

That looks like a nice bench. I am not sure why he used a MDF/wood laminate for the top. In my neck of the woods, it would be less expensive to just use beech for the full 3" thickness. I built my bench out of beech and it is very stable. Here in the Pacific NW, the wood I use stabilizes between 11-13% moisture content. Its been awhile since I have been to the United Kingdom, but I seem to remember similar weather. (lots of rain) If you use mdf, stabilize the edges with a 50/50 mix of wood glue and water and let it dry, before you edge band it. The mixture will help "firm" up and seal the edges and when you glue the edge band the new glue will bond better. Wood moves, but I think a lot of people worry to much about the problem. If I were making that bench I would route evenly spaced 1/2" slots in the mdf, thinking out loud, maybe 4 rows of 3 slots, and use woodscrews and washers to attach the mdf to the beech. I would use a strong 5/4 maybe even 6/4 for the vice jaws.
No particular reason except I think it would look cool.:grin:


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

​


Herb Stoops said:


> Wow,Peter, I was wondering how they built one of those. Didn't realize how many tools it took. There are several people who have built similar wooden benches that should be along to help you. Be sure to post progress pictures of your build. Looks like you chose a good set of plans to work off of.
> Herb


Hi Herb,
He is using a pretty basic tool set. Life gets easier if have a proper tablesaw, chop saw, track saw or whatever etc.That said guy has done a good job and looks nice.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

" I'm assuming that the MDF would be attached to the u/s of the laminated wood top using screws and heavy flat washers into oversize holes in the MDF. " Yes pretty much that way, all the screw holes were done oversize to allow any movement of his Oak top. If had glued MDF directly to the top, then the Oak top would have been likely to warp.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you are attaching the mdf or the banding, there is one attachment at the centre that doesn't need to and usually shouldn't be made to move. It is a solid attachment and expansion occurs from that point outward in both directions. The same goes for raised (floating) panels in cupboard doors. Norm Abrams always glued the centre 25mm/1" of the panel to the door frame (to keep it from rattling).


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

" If you use mdf, stabilize the edges with a 50/50 mix of wood glue and water and let it dry, before you edge band it. The mixture will help "firm" up and seal the edges and when you glue the edge band the new glue will bond better." OK thanks for the tip.

" Wood moves, but I think a lot of people worry to much about the problem. If I were making that bench I would route evenly spaced 1/2" slots in the mdf. " 

Yes that makes sense, much better way of doing it, more professional too. 

"thinking out loud, maybe 4 rows of 3 slots" I'm thinking I'm going to need quite a lot more? How many do you think length and width and spacing to adequately secure the laminated MDF to the Beech top? Beech top and MDF = 2m x 62cm
Appreciated 
Peter.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi Chuck,
" If you are attaching the midfield or the banding, there is one attachment at the centre that doesn't need to and usually shouldn't be made to move. It is a solid attachment and expansion occurs from that point outward in both directions. " I don't quite follow you here. Are you saying I should and will be alright gluing the Beech edging to the laminated MDF and Beech top"


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Gaia said:


> Hi Chuck,
> " If you are attaching the midfield or the banding, there is one attachment at the centre that doesn't need to and usually shouldn't be made to move. It is a solid attachment and expansion occurs from that point outward in both directions. " I don't quite follow you here. Are you saying I should and will be alright gluing the Beech edging to the laminated MDF and Beech top"


Along the length you should have no problem with beech to beech and probably not with the mdf (not midfield- damned auto spell). Even if the band let go of the mdf it will hold to the wood and still cover it. The ends are the problem because the top will get wider and narrower but the length of the bands or vice jaws will not. Wood moves very little in length. So for those you are better off with mechanical attachment that allow movement. But the centre attachment can and often should be solid so that movement is outward from the centre both directions.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> There's no problem adding on the edges. The grain in the band will match the grain orientation of the top. The problem is on the ends. That's where you'll get different orientations. Here's one solution:
> OK thanks.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

How far in from the edges of the top should the dog holes be?See attached the Beech top is 2m x 62cm
He doesn't say in his plans and he did this several years ago, don't think he checks his Instructables account very regularly. Took me ages to get a reply on how the bench stood up after several years, any movement issue?


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## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

Gaia said:


> " If you use mdf, stabilize the edges with a 50/50 mix of wood glue and water and let it dry, before you edge band it. The mixture will help "firm" up and seal the edges and when you glue the edge band the new glue will bond better." OK thanks for the tip.
> 
> " Wood moves, but I think a lot of people worry to much about the problem. If I were making that bench I would route evenly spaced 1/2" slots in the mdf. "
> 
> ...


I didn't read the entire build on your link so I am making a couple of assumptions. 1st, I assume the mdf is laminated together with glue or screws or both. That is what I would do. At 2'x6' (sorry I am not a metric guy) I would be very comfortable with 3 evenly space rows of 3 screws to secure the beech. Because mdf is fragile towards the ends, I would come in about 2" from each end and then have a row in the center. 2nd, if the beech has been kiln dried and acclimated to your space, I don't think you will have much, if any, movement. If it does move it will move across the width of the bench and slots should accommodate the movement. There are any number of wood movement calculators on the web, if you are really concerned. Just remember that the vast majority of them are "worst case" calculators and may not accurately predict real case situations.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Gaia said:


> How far in from the edges of the top should the dog holes be?See attached the Beech top is 2m x 62cm.


I'm not home to measure mine but they either 75 or 100 in. 75 is probably enough and even 50 might be okay. Think about what you want the bench to do for you and factor that into the decision.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I'm not home to measure mine but they either 75 or 100 in. 75 is probably enough and even 50 might be okay. Think about what you want the bench to do for you and factor that into the decision.


OK thanks Charles.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Bob Adams said:


> I didn't read the entire build on your link so I am making a couple of assumptions. 1st, I assume the mdf is laminated together with glue or screws or both. That is what I would do. At 2'x6' (sorry I am not a metric guy) I would be very comfortable with 3 evenly space rows of 3 screws to secure the beech. Because mdf is fragile towards the ends, I would come in about 2" from each end and then have a row in the center. 2nd, if the beech has been kiln dried and acclimated to your space, I don't think you will have much, if any, movement. If it does move it will move across the width of the bench and slots should accommodate the movement. There are any number of wood movement calculators on the web, if you are really concerned. Just remember that the vast majority of them are "worst case" calculators and may not accurately predict real case situations.


Cheers for the input Bob.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you are attaching the mdf or the banding, there is one attachment at the centre that doesn't need to and usually shouldn't be made to move. It is a solid attachment and expansion occurs from that point outward in both directions. The same goes for raised (floating) panels in cupboard doors. Norm Abrams always glued the centre 25mm/1" of the panel to the door frame (to keep it from rattling).


I've just ordered nine Silverline Heavy Duty F-Clamps 900 x 80mm DIY woodwork metal steel 427676 at £5.50 a pop and only £3.50 post for all of them. £5.50 a clamp is about half the price from other outlets I can find. The clamps have a lot of good reviews on Amazon UK. I've got quite a few 4ft long pipe clamps, threaded the steel 3/4" rod myself, have extender connectors for them too.

At the moment I have a very small work space to make the work bench, a very small side utility room in my house, as I say space is at a premium so I got the Silverline clamps. 

Anyhow, I'm thinking 9 clamps to glue up the edging on the 2m length.A spacing of 222mm, 2.2cm say close on 8 -1/4" that should be sufficient spacing for glue up? Should I rough sand the inside face of the banding?Assuming I will source the banding PAR, planed all round and don't need to machine it myself. The Beech kitchen worktop is in a finished state from the manufacturer, ready for a customer to fit in their kitchen.

Should I rough sand the outer edge face of this also to provide a key for both mating surfaces? I've got Titebond 3 Ultimate I don't know if have this brand in US but over here is a respected, established waterproof wood glue, professional quality.
Cheers.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If the edges of the top feel glossy or oily at all I would sand them. The maker may have added a finish to them in that case. Rough sanding will improve the bond but I don't know if you need it. The glue will hold pretty well. If you do sand then wipe it down with a damp rag to try and get rid of any sawdust. Water will also raise the grain a bit which will also improve bonding. I always like to sand the surface of mdf before I glue to it. It has a waxy feel to it that I don't trust getting a good bond to.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If the edges of the top feel glossy or oily at all I would sand them. The maker may have added a finish to them in that case. Rough sanding will improve the bond but I don't know if you need it. The glue will hold pretty well. If you do sand then wipe it down with a damp rag to try and get rid of any sawdust. Water will also raise the grain a bit which will also improve bonding. I always like to sand the surface of mdf before I glue to it. It has a waxy feel to it that I don't trust getting a good bond to.


OK thanks Charles.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

I like the simplicity of the plans for this workbench. I've been following the discussion on the use of the MDF for the top with some interest. I have mixed feeling about using MDF for anything like a workbench top, especially if you plan on using bench dogs or hold fasts. The appeal seems to be assembly with a minimal amount of tools. I understand this, but if I were going to spend the time and the money to build this bench I would want to build it to last.

With that being said, here is a link to a Paul Sellers bench build (which he did in his back yard, in the open air). 






Pay attention to the top that he built. He used construction lumber from the big box that created a SOLID wood top, that was stable and probably cost less to build then the MDF/Beech top. I realize, that, there is more work involved and requires learning some hand plane skills, but in the long run it is built to last. You would learn new skills along the line. Just don't be lulled into believing that your top needs to be Beech, Oak, Maple or another type of hardwood. 

I just wanted to bring this up as another alternative to the top.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

That pine will dent easily if you drop a tool or workpiece on it. I guess that's not too much of an issue when you're as whizzo with a smoothing plane as he is. And at rough construction timber prices, replacing the top eventually wouldn't hurt too much.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

AndyL said:


> *That pine will dent easily if you drop a tool or workpiece on it*. I guess that's not too much of an issue when you're as whizzo with a smoothing plane as he is. And at rough construction timber prices, replacing the top eventually wouldn't hurt too much.


The real question becomes, are you building a workbench or a Shop Queen?

Dented, scarred, scratched who cares? It's gonna happen sooner or later, and your right, it won't hurt too much to replace it (which will be quite a while down the road).

People are brainwashed into thinking that pine is a soft wood...not all pines are created equal! Try driving a nail into an air dried piece of Hemlock or Douglas Fir and tell me it isn't tough. :surprise:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Amen on the D. Fir observation, Bill! 
I have a Hell of a time finding Interior D. Fir...it comes kiln dried and wrapped...but when I do I grab some!
On my last foray into Vancouver, looking for some #1 D. Fir (I would even have taken Hemlock), I wasn't able to find anything. It's all exported, or so they claimed.
I'm _not_ paying _$2.20BF_ for dried D.Fir!!! Nononono...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Amen on the D. Fir observation, Bill!
> I have a Hell of a time finding Interior D. Fir...it comes kiln dried and wrapped...but when I do I grab some!
> On my last foray into Vancouver, looking for some #1 D. Fir (I would even have taken Hemlock), I wasn't able to find anything. It's all exported, or so they claimed.
> I'm _not_ paying _$2.20BF_ for dried D.Fir!!! Nononono...


I feel you pain on the wood availability and prices. Everything here is trucked in from PA, NY, Michigan, etc., and the prices reflect it.

It just amazes me, that, when you say Pine people automatically thing soft. Beech is really tough, Hemlock and Doug is only half of the Janka hardness rating, but is still very, very rugged. Get really lucking and come across some old growth Heart Pine and the Beech would go back to the lumber pile.:wink:


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

He's using either Norway Spruce or Scots Pine there I'm sure, both fairly soft usually. But even within a particular species you can get big variations of course. I got some Scots Pine a few years ago that had incredibly tight and straight grain, it was great stuff. I guess it grew on the north side of the hill or something. Never found any that nice since!


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the input. " I have mixed feeling about using MDF for anything like a workbench top, especially if you plan on using bench dogs or hold fasts. " He found hold fasts did start to wear on the MDF. To overcome that he glued hardboard to the underside. The bench build I'm committed now. Have the Beech 40mm worktop, 2 sheets of 18mm MDF cut to size, hold fasts, bought the two vice mechanisms.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Gaia said:


> Thanks for the input. " I have mixed feeling about using MDF for anything like a workbench top, especially if you plan on using bench dogs or hold fasts. " He found hold fasts did start to wear on the MDF. To overcome that he glued hardboard to the underside. The bench build I'm committed now. Have the Beech 40mm worktop, 2 sheets of 18mm MDF cut to size, hold fasts, bought the two vice mechanisms.


I totally understand. I was just offering an alternative for you to consider. 

The fact that he had to add a piece of hardboard to the underside should be a neon sign. Hardboard is a compressed wood dust/glue combination just like the MDF. I suspect, that, eventually the hold fasts and the bench dogs will wallow out the dog holes (and the hardboard). It may last you for many years, then again, depending on your use, may not last at all. The 40mm (about 1-1/2" for those of us who only think in Imperial) Beech top should be pretty rugged. The MDF will basically be a filler, adding depth/support for the bench dogs. The hold fasts will eventually chew up the bottom piece of MDF, just by the virtue of how they work.

If/when they do wear out at least all you'll have to do is replace the MDF.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

OK thanks,
" The hold fasts will eventually chew up the bottom piece of MDF, just by the virtue of how they work."

When the designer of the bench, as an afterthought added hardboard to prevent the hold fasts chewing up the MDF. During the build I'll do the same, so if later I do have problems, all I need to do is replace the hardboard.


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