# HFT 91130 Router Table WARNING



## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I have a lot of Harbor Freight Tools, and for the most part, if you do not exceed their obvious limitations, they work fairly well for a hobby shop.

This 91130 Router Table is a glaring exception. I made this video to explain why. After only 12 SECONDS of use, while using the machine for the first time, the machine began belching smoke, and flames, and I had to disassemble it to discover why.

The mental giants at 'Central Machinery' designed a router table, with an ENCLOSED chamber around the collet and bit, so the chips have nowhere to go!

The plastic chips were dropping down into the chamber, and clotting up. The lump of hot plastic rolled around the collet nut like bread dough in a dough machine, until the machine could not overpower the plastic wad. It bogged down, and the plastic caught fire from being buzzed by the nut at  RPMs.

I contacted HFT and advised them to RECALL these machines, as I believe they are a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I am not even sure the problem can be corrected, using the current router that is supplied. The solid metal mount would need large holes cut into it, and then I am not sure how the height adjustment would even work, as well as not knowing if the router would remain stable.

I am going to toss the router and use the table with an older craftsman router I have. The table is okay for small projects, but the router and the mount are a disaster.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

get a refund...


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## Web Shepherd (Feb 8, 2012)

> I contacted HFT and advised them to RECALL these machines, as I believe they are a lawsuit waiting to happen.


Joe, thanks for the U-tube safety warning. Have you heard from Harbor Freight?

Bob


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I bought the table over two years ago and set it up. This is the first time I have actually plugged it in, mounted a bit, and tried it.

The problem of the chips clotting around the arbor surfaced immediately. I read the product reviews on the HFT site, and most of the people had the same complaints about smoke and fire from the machine early on. Most people thought the smoke and fire was from the motor, but only one other person bothered to investigate deep enough to find the true cause of the problem, which is a deep cup around the bit, with NO way for the chips to exit. It is a very poor design.

I told HFT that they need to *recall* these machines before someone's shop burns down. It is just a matter of time until a clump of varnished wood chips catch fire and then you know what will happen.

I know the manager of my local store, and he has already offered to replace the machine, which is nice, but that does not solve the problem. The machine still works fine at the moment. It isn't that it was damaged. It is that it is poorly designed. It is just that you cannot do any serious routing with it, and it is inherently dangerous to use.

It is the weekend, so I am sure HFT will contact me this week. I'm going to make sure they are aware of the ACTUAL problem. They have been replacing the machines, and telling people to buy the protection plan, but regardless of which 91130 router table a person uses, the fire hazard still exists. It is built into the design!


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> get a refund...


Stick,

I am not concerned about a refund. I am concerned about someone's shop going up in flames. These routers need to be RECALLED.


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## JimSC (Apr 17, 2014)

I really am a hobby woodworker and bring retired with limited income I purchase a lot of Harbor Freight tools. I have just about "re-engineered” just about every stationary power tool that I have ever purchased from them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Joe; just a suggestion, but you might have a face to face chat with the Fire Prevention Officer (or Chief in a smaller town) at your local FD. They'd have some insight into how to force the recall. 
Just out of curiosity, is there a UL stamp on it? Sounds like you might have a similar problem to our Canadian CSA situation...
(How could a design fault that serious not be noticed by a testing agency? Unless of course it wasn't tested in a table.)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Joe Jones said:


> Stick,
> 
> I am not concerned about a refund. I am concerned about someone's shop going up in flames. These routers need to be RECALLED.


most know that HF tools are a crap shoot, long term expensive, can be dangerous....


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Yesterday had a HF 1/2" drill go west on me. Was using it with a hook to open and close an Awning with an eye to rotate the gears. The drill started up full speed and locked so that it wouldn't stop. I was on a stepladder ,grabbed the cord as the drill wrenched out of my hand, hit the edge of the roof and backed the hook out of the chuck and fell. Couldn't yank the cord out of the socket as it was down by the deck floor. Finally got my wife to come unplug it. Nuff said about HF power tools.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

old coasty said:


> Yesterday had a HF 1/2" drill go west on me. Was using it with a hook to open and close an Awning with an eye to rotate the gears. The drill started up full speed and locked so that it wouldn't stop. I was on a stepladder ,grabbed the cord as the drill wrenched out of my hand, hit the edge of the roof and backed the hook out of the chuck and fell. Couldn't yank the cord out of the socket as it was down by the deck floor. Finally got my wife to come unplug it. Nuff said about HF power tools.


You used a Harbor Freight Tool ... while standing on a LADDER?!!!

Back in the 70's, you would have starred on the TV series "Thrill Seeker!" :wink:


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> (How could a design fault that serious not be noticed by a testing agency? Unless of course it wasn't tested in a table.)


My guess is that they tested it with the two fences spread two or three inches apart, so the vac could suck up the chips, and they ran a piece of wood through it to make a molding. In that scenario, it would work fine. 

When you put the two fences together so that you have a nice straight edge to run along, you shut the door of air flow to the vac completely, and chips have no place to go, especially when you are doing a DADO cut, which means that the wood is touching down on the table surface on BOTH sides of the bit. In this case, the chips can only go DOWN into the metal cup surrounding the arbor.

I expect to hear from HFT tomorrow or Tuesday.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Joe Jones said:


> I expect to hear from HFT tomorrow or Tuesday.


something tells me they won't care...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

In general, I always read product reviews on the HF web site before parting with cash. I think it's great that HF doesn't censor the reviews so you can pretty well tell what you might be getting into.

I suggest you post a review on the HF site and be done with it. To me, that and your posting here goes well beyond the social contract with the brotherhood of wood workers.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

PhilBa said:


> I suggest you post a review on the HF site and be done with it. To me, that and your posting here goes well beyond the social contract with the brotherhood of wood workers.


I did submit a bad, but bone-crushingly honest review with HFT. They will post it in a day or two.

As for this place (and others) I felt compelled to post this because nearly ALL of the other 91130 owners assume that the smoke means the motor burned up, and that is not the case. The motor is fine. The smoke comes from the clotted chips being relentlessly pummeled by the router bit collet nut.

Once someone understands where the real problem lies, they may be less inclined to throw away a $200+ table that CAN be used for light routing and such, as long as the owner does not close off the opening in the fence, or attempt dado cuts into materials which cuts off the chip escape route.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> something tells me they won't care...


I am visiting southern California in a week or so, and I will be staying at a friend's house in Camarillo, CA, just a few blocks from their main headquarters. I WILL stop in and talk to the higher-ups, to make sure they take me seriously.

Heck, I have seven of their drill presses alone, two of the 39955 big presses, and five smaller ones. I have four 97009 metal saws, three 60564 bandsaws, two 61750 sanders, one 69257 oscillating sander, a 68761 pallet jack, two bench grinders, dozens and dozens of clamps, clamping bars, hand tools, socket sets, a 12-ton and a 20-ton hydraulic press with air-assist RAMs, and two shelving units *full* of their handheld A/C power tools, six 4" grinders, a 47840 portable bandsaw (one of the BEST tools they offer!), a 67690 lathe, two 61717 electric hoists, a 93762 metal saw, three sets of their solar panels, two 97869 dust collectors, a dozen nail guns, air staplers and brad nailers, two drawers of air tools, 600 feet of hoses, along with a whole myriad of other HFT stuff. One huge red rolling tool box with the top box and two side boxes (currently empty :laugh2: ), and four of the smaller red and black rolling tool carts with 1-5 drawers. Too much to mention, and sadly ... ALL of it _"Made in China."_ :crying:

Of course I also have a lot of American made tools as well. I can't wait to set up my 110" panel saw from Saw-Trax!

Perhaps because of my "Insider's Club" membership purchases record, or the copious amounts of money I spend at HFT, they DO respond to me, _every time,_ and they know me to be a person who doesn't cry 'Wolf!' I never contact them unless a product is defective or _dangerous_. When I call them with a complaint about one of their products, they can be fairly certain that there is a real problem.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I often thought of taking my lead paint test kit and Geiger counter into a HF....
but I don't want to know and those that think w/ their wallets will find excuses to justify any negative results...


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I often thought of taking my lead paint test kit and Geiger counter into a HF....
> but I don't want to know and those that think w/ their wallets will find excuses to justify any negative results...


Hahaha! Please TELL ME if you ever do this! I want to be there! :laugh2:


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

That's a whole bunch of brand loyalty, Joe...it should count for something...good luck with your visit...


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Nickp said:


> That's a whole bunch of brand loyalty, Joe...it should count for something...good luck with your visit...


Well ... I also buy tools from Northern Tool, and I have a lot of DeWalt's offerings as well as Milwaukee tools, and some Snap-On stuff. 

I would have loved to equip my home hobby shop with AMERICAN MADE tools, but the sad reality if the 21st century is that most of the tools we buy aren't even "Made in America" any longer. If they are, the price is exponentially higher ... which I wouldn't MIND, if the quality was exponentially higher as well. 

Sears "Craftsman" brand used to be something worth owning. Now, they simply farm out their tools tot he lowest bidder from some God-forsaken third-world foundry, and they assure you that their "Lifetime Guarantee" is enough to buy their product. I don't want a wrench that will be replaced free every time it breaks. I want a wrench that WON'T BREAK!

America seems to have adopted the very same cheap manufacturing shortcuts as our foreign competitors. Heck ... even table saws and drill presses with names like "Rockwell" and "Delta" and "Chicago Pneumatic" are STILL *Made In China!*

When was the last time you saw a 1/2" power drill with a cast metal body, and a stainless steel chuck? Do they even exist any longer, except for the flea market finds from the 1950's? :no:

I walked into a large sporting goods store here in Bowling Green. They had one wall that was lined with shoes from floor to ceiling, and from corner to corner.

I asked the salesman ... "Do you have ANY shoe that is 100% "Made in America?" His reply, "We have ONE, but we don't sell many of them." 

I looked at the shoe, and held it next to the Chinese model that most closely matched it in appearance and design. The shoes were virtually* indistinguishable* from one another,e except for the price. The Chinese shoe was $29.95. The American counterpart was $139.95 :surprise:

*IF* the American shoe revealed itself as an obviously superior shoe, I would have purchased six pair. I can afford it. but the American shoe had the same cheap vinyl, hollow, thin sole, the same vinyl and cheesecloth patches, sewn together with the same thin nylon thread ... and the places where things were GLUED together reflected the same signs of oozing glue stains. I was unconvinced that the American shoe would allow me to take one more step than the Chinese offering. There was absolutely NOTHING about the American product that motivated me to "Buy American."

Sadly the same can be said about cars, appliances, and nearly everything else. American pride is nearly dead ... which is WHY I set up a shop! *Some of the BEST things you can buy today, come out of America's home hobby workshops!*


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Joe, your router table is a clone of a Bosch table that was also sold under the Craftsman name. All of these tables are identical except for the colors so your table was a very good price for this style of table. Normally when I respond to a thread like this I include photos of all the items mentioned; being in CA without my external hard drive I can't do that. I am certain that I have posted photos off these three tables before if someone feels like sorting through my uploads... :jester:

HF sells a lot of good quality tools but I have yet to see any electric tools by them that I would buy.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Well, they replied, and they COMPLETELY missed the point.

Their own reviews on their site say that this problem exists. I am not satisfied with this canned response. I WILL be visiting HFT when I get to California.
--------
Dear Joe ,

Thank you for your recent inquiry,

If your item still within warranty, I would suggest returning this item to your local Harbor Freight retail store for an exchange. Please have your receipt available and ensure all warranty conditions are met to guarantee a smooth exchange. *This is not a typical problem with that item.* Please advise if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you.

Carlos
Harbor Freight Tools
Product Support


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I am completely SHOCKED! Please take a video of your visit, I'll get the popcorn.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Joe Jones said:


> Well, they replied, and they COMPLETELY missed the point.
> 
> Their own reviews on their site say that this problem exists. I am not satisfied with this canned response. I WILL be visiting HFT when I get to California.
> --------
> ...


This is not surprising. No one wants to accept responsibility and no one wants to be bothered, no matter how hazardous the situation may be. I run into this all the time. You try to offer "constructive criticism" and no one that you talk to cares. Not their problem and they are not paid enough to care.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

That's the funny thing about HF - they unabashedly sell crap. No apologies, just a liberal return policy. And they let their customers review the products on the HF web site so if you don't like it, you can not only get your money back but you can trash the product in public as well. There is a certain perverse charm in that. But I also think it is smart on their part.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Well I don't care if a product is crappy. I DO care when it is a *fire hazard.*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Recall, recall, recall...


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Simply amazing! Maybe you can use a Harbor Freight hole saw to open up that compression chamber :wink:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TenGees said:


> Simply amazing! Maybe you can use a Harbor Freight hole saw to open up that compression chamber :wink:


Oh the irony...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Oh the irony..."
Nah, it's probably pot metal.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

I think I'd try to link that video to your review on their website if they will allow such a thing. 

Also, is it possible to use the motor for any other purpose? A side mounted router, or maybe make it into a disc sander or something?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

'nuff said...


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Hey Stick, was the guy in the car injured?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...was the *guy* in the car injured?"

My lips are sealed.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Dan, you wouldn't be insinuating that the driver was of the feminine persuasion, would you?

If so... was she hurt?


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## Atonic (Nov 7, 2020)

Just wanted to resurrect this thread to make a point.

The OP modified/did not assemble the unit per instructions, caused this problem, and blames HF?

They no longer sell this.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Atonic.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Atonic said:


> Just wanted to resurrect this thread to make a point.
> 
> The OP modified/did not assemble the unit per instructions, caused this problem, and blames HF?
> 
> They no longer sell this.


*Where* did you see that the original machine was not assembled per their instructions?! I built it EXACTLY as it was originally designed. If you are referring to my decision to REPLACE the HFT router with another unit that allows for chip ejection AFTER the fire hazard revealed itself then yes ... I did mount a different router to the table after the design flaw was discovered.

Sorry friend, but you know NOTHING about this.

It has NOTHING to do with the assembly of the table.

The router is a motor with a shaft that had a collet on the end. It protruded through one *solid metal cup* that threaded around another *solid metal cup* to adjust the height of the bit. Any bits of material that fell into that sealed cup would have NO exit, and therefore be confined to roll around within the cup's interior volume until the machine was powered down. As the bits increased in quantity, combined with the heat of the shaft spinning in the center of the clump of material, the wad of wood or plastic bits would heat up, roll around at the bottom of the cup and against the shaft, and catch fire. It looked like a bread dough machine, with the hook rotating in the aluminum cauldron.

For normal edge routing, the material would pass PARTIALLY over the sealed cylindrical chamber located beneath the table's surface. The movement of air created by the spinning bit would (almost) blow the bits out of the cup as the routing process progressed. Not even the motor provided an upward air thrust to assist in chip ejection.

When you set up a bit to do a rabbit cut, and the material completely covers the cup's top circumference as it passes over the bit, there is NO PLACE for the bits to exit, and so they just clump together, increase in volume, and roll around the router shaft at the bottom of the sealed metal cup, getting very HOT. Run the router long enough, and you have a fire.

If the two cups were designed with holes that would allow the bits to escape the confined area of the cup, the problem would be solved. I thought about cutting a series of holes into the cups, so that as they were threaded together, at least a FEW holes would always be open for the chips to escape. I concluded that it was too much work, to re-engineer a poorly designed router mount.

*I* am the reason they no longer sell this machine.


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