# Reducing a pattern



## Bgjazz (Aug 22, 2015)

I have made a template and have flush trimmed to make copies but need to make another copy 1/4" smaller than the original template. Is there a way to do this? Thanks


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bgjazz said:


> I have made a template and have flush trimmed to make copies but need to make another copy 1/4" smaller than the original template. Is there a way to do this? Thanks


reduce the size of the bearing by ½''...
go to a lager dia bit if need be to get the reduction...
ie... 1'' dia bit w/ a ½'' dia bearing...
or...
step reduce by ¼'' and making a new pattern that will be 1/8'' smaller...
do this twice...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum . Filling out your profile telling a little about yourself and a first name is always nice


----------



## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Or use a guide bushing that is 1/4" larger in diameter.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bgjazz said:


> I have made a template and have flush trimmed to make copies but need to make another copy 1/4" smaller than the original template. Is there a way to do this? Thanks


plan ''B''......

cut a copy...
leave the template and copy sandwiched together w/ DS tape...
now using a rabbiting bit w/ the bearing adjusted for depth of cut you need to cut the copy to size follow the pattern w/ the bearing and cut the bottom piece down to size...

http://www.infinitytools.com/Rabbet...ter-Height-Router-Bit-Set/productinfo/00-556/


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mike said:


> Or use a guide bushing that is 1/4" larger in diameter.


Mike..
isn't that going the opposite way????


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Depending on the thickness of the template, wouldn't the quick way to go be to cut a 1/4" wide rabbet (I'm assuming that the pattern is reduced 1/4" all around - otherwise cut an 1/8" wide rabbet) around the pattern to about 1/2 of the thickness, flip it over and use a pattern bit to cut off the lip? this would be done on the copy of course.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

tomp913 said:


> Depending on the thickness of the template, wouldn't the quick way to go be to cut a 1/4" wide rabbet (I'm assuming that the pattern is reduced 1/4" all around - otherwise cut an 1/8" wide rabbet) around the pattern to about 1/2 of the thickness, flip it over and use a pattern bit to cut off the lip? this would be done on the copy of course.


wouldn't that ruin the original pattern???...


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Would just creating a negative template serve your purpose? Bushing to whatever size you want from there as often as you want without all of the hassles??


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> wouldn't that ruin the original pattern???...


 I added the note that the modification would be done to a copy of the original pattern, sorry if I wasn't clear. I had to do something similar to correct an undersize circular hole I'd cut in a project - by the time I discovered I'd measured wrong, the pivot point was gone. I bought one of those pattern bit sets that had multiple bearings and was able to open up the hole. So much for "measure twice cut once", I did it backward.s


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> plan ''B''......
> 
> cut a copy...
> leave the template and copy sandwiched together w/ DS tape...
> ...


I like Sticks method.

This is the way I would do it,make the original size template, then make another piece from that,While the 2 pieces are still together then put a rabit bit on and set the bearing for an 1/8",rabit then increase rabit to 1/4" and route around the lower piece and you have your 1/4" undersize piece for a pattern to make more. 
You might be able to use the rabit cut at 1/4" depending on the material and design of pattern, But I like to cut shallower cuts and work up if I can.
Good luck,

Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

it works....

http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/69426-cutting-serving-tray-bottom.html


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is one of those situations where it would be great to have our glossary back so everyone was using the same terms. By the definitions we had listed a pattern was something where you made an external cut to get a shape and a template was for an internal cut. Examples of this are dress makers patterns where you cut out shapes to join together or a bowl template where you cut out the inside material to form the bowl. An inlay pattern lets you cut externally to make a shape so you can make a template to hollow out the cavity for the inlay to fit into. Unfortunately people refer to anything you follow as a template.

So if you want to reduce the size of your pattern by 1/4" you would use a 1/8" rabbiting bit to remove 1/8" from both sides of the pattern and end up 1/4" smaller.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Here are two more examples of patterns and templates to help clarify the concept. The pattern for cutting out feet for a project and a template for cutting out the inside of a wheel. The argument can be made that the pattern is just a plan to define the shape and you can make a template from the pattern but this just generates more confusion. If you cut out the shape onto a piece of MDF it is still a pattern.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

On the non-shop front, take your original to a copy-shop (make sure it's clean and dust free if you ever want to be allowed back in). They'll reduce it or blow it up to pretty much any size you want, and make multiple copies. The cost is negligible if you value your time. They can also print it out onto transparency media if that works better for you.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> On the non-shop front, take your original to a copy-shop (make sure it's clean and dust free if you ever want to be allowed back in). They'll reduce it or blow it up to pretty much any size you want, and make multiple copies. The cost is negligible if you value your time. They can also print it out onto transparency media if that works better for you.


The down side to that, if you're increasing the size considerably, is that the lines get proportionally thicker/wider, shouldn't be a problem if the size is only going to change by 1/4". Blowing up a small pattern in a magazine could be - from experience blowing up plans for a model airplane from a magazine.


----------



## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Mike said:


> This is one of those situations where it would be great to have our glossary back so everyone was using the same terms. By the definitions we had listed a pattern was something where you made an external cut to get a shape and a template was for an internal cut. Examples of this are dress makers patterns where you cut out shapes to join together or a bowl template where you cut out the inside material to form the bowl. An inlay pattern lets you cut externally to make a shape so you can make a template to hollow out the cavity for the inlay to fit into. Unfortunately people refer to anything you follow as a template.
> 
> So if you want to reduce the size of your pattern by 1/4" you would use a 1/8" rabbiting bit to remove 1/8" from both sides of the pattern and end up 1/4" smaller.


That is a good explanation of the difference between the 2 terms. thanks.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I've never heard of this distinction between pattern and template so I just spent the last hour and a half looking for it. Found it absolutely nowhere online. In fact about the only distinctions made were that the template is used to make the pattern. This was clearly stated in several sites. The inside/outside cut determining what is called what was never mentioned in over 2 dozen sites. So I seriously question that these are the standard definitions in woodworking. Don't want out members getting confused....
Everyone I know referees to one or the other, both being the same, typically using template as a standardize term.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

chessnut2 said:


> That is a good explanation of the difference between the 2 terms. thanks.


all I could find over and over again....

*template* or templet:
noun
1.
a *pattern*, mold, or the like, usually consisting of a thin plate of wood or metal, serving as a gauge or guide in mechanical work.
2.
anything that determines or serves as a pattern; a model...
3.
anything fashioned or designed to serve as a model, pattern or guide for something to be made:


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Mike..

if I see it right a pattern for dress making and such outer line is the fabric's cut line the inner line is the sew line...


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

As stated I learned the definitions I used from our old Glossary.(I believe Bob and Rick set those definitions) You are saying the Glossary was wrong? I know the names of the two photos I posted were correct. How do you distinguish between a pattern and a template? Please enlighten me so I get it right.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Mike said:


> As stated I learned the definitions I used from our old Glossary.(I believe Bob and Rick set those definitions) You are saying the Glossary was wrong? I know the names of the two photos I posted were correct. How do you distinguish between a pattern and a template? Please enlighten me so I get it right.


I was taught that you trace around a pattern and cut inside a template - see the companies that offer templates to cut the hole in a router table for the plate or in a countertop for a sink.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't know if I'd go with Tom's explanation as engraved in stone, but it feels right(?).
Having said that I agree, I'd also point out that so much stuff is made offshore, where English isn't an absolute, that I wouldn't trust the definitions to be global.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mike said:


> As stated I learned the definitions I used from our old Glossary.(I believe Bob and Rick set those definitions) You are saying the Glossary was wrong? I know the names of the two photos I posted were correct. How do you distinguish between a pattern and a template? Please enlighten me so I get it right.


Mike...
still can't find a discernible difference between the two in the OP's application...
I never read the glossary so don't know what it said...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

as I always have understood pattern/template...
*
Template:* A pattern to guide the marking or cutting of a shape, often a router is used with a piloted bit. 

Glossary of Woodworking Terms


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

This whole discussion has me confused. I have always used the terms interchangeably. So, I went looking. Here is what I found:

tem·plate
[ˈtemplət]

NOUN
1.	a shaped piece of metal, wood, card, plastic, or other material used as a pattern for processes such as painting, cutting out, shaping, or drilling
template
(ˈtɛmplɪt) or templet n
1. (Tools) a gauge or pattern, cut out in wood or metal, used in woodwork, etc, to help shape something accurately

noun
The definition of a template is a pattern used for forming something exactly.
*An example of a template is a dress pattern.*

Synonyms for *template *
noun design, motif 
•	arrangement 
•	decoration 
•	device 
•	diagram 
•	figure 
•	guide 
•	impression 
•	instruction 
•	markings 
•	mold 
•	motive 
•	original 
•	ornament 
•	*patterning* 
•	plan 
•	stencil 
•	trim 

Synonyms for *pattern *
noun design, motif 
•	arrangement 
•	decoration 
•	device 
•	diagram 
•	figure 
•	guide 
•	impression 
•	instruction 
•	markings 
•	mold 
•	motive 
•	original 
•	ornament 
•	patterning 
•	plan 
•	stencil 
•	*template *
•	trim 

So, it appears that it is just a matter of individual use.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I worked in the Template shop making router templates, drill templates milling templates bending templates, all for metal working years ago. We often used the the 3D Pattern of the part to make the templates to cut it out. So to us a pattern was an actual sized replica, or mold of the part that came from the pattern shop and a template was a flat cut out for the tool to follow to make one operation of the part.

Correction to my previous post on making an undersized part, As Mike pointed out to make it 1/4" under a 1/8" rabit bit should be used.

Herb


----------



## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

This is one of those threads that would benefit greatly from a couple of photographs of the project in question.

I have never given much thought to the "difference" between a _pattern _and a _template_, except to say that TO ME, a pattern is something you use to trace, and perhaps cut out a shape *ONCE*, and a template is the the first three-dimensional reproduction of that pattern that the tool uses to make multiple copies of that shape.

So a pattern would be handed to you. It is a shape.

This is a PATTERN of an owl










This pattern cannot be used to make the owl out of a sheet of plywood or plexiglass, unless you glue the pattern down to a piece of material and cut it out by hand, using a scroll saw or some similar tool. The pattern would be used ONCE, _and would be sacrificed in the process of cutting out ONE owl_. Several owls would require several patterns.

That owl PATTERN could instead be laid onto a sheet of 1/2" Birch plywood or plexiglass to make a TEMPLATE of the owl shape that would be used to cut the owl out of another material, using a router with a bearing, or a similar tool. The TEMPLATE could be taped or screwed to the sheet of material, and it would not be sacrificed during the production of each owl as a router followed the shape of the template and cut new owls out of the material.

A template can either be a positive shape or it can be a negative shape. It does not matter whether the router bearing follows the exterior sides or the interior sides of a template. The template of the letter "O" has both an exterior side and an interior side to be cut with the router.

I am still confused about the "1/4" smaller" issue mentioned in the original post. Do you need the entire image SCALED to a size 1/4" smaller, or do you only need to make the same shape with 1/4" additional material removed from the outer edge?


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

The Hobbyist said:


> or do you only need to make the same shape with 1/4" additional material removed from the outer edge?


that's the objective...


----------



## woodman79 (Aug 24, 2015)

Use a rabbiting bit with smaller bearing after making another copy of template. then use flush trim bit afterwards.


----------



## Bgjazz (Aug 22, 2015)

Yes I have a template for the shape of half the body of a guitar and need to make another for the bindings on the outer edge of the guitar body. The mould needs to be 1/4 inch smaller all the way around the original template to accomodate the thickness of the binding. I originally used a ruler with a pencil held against 1/4 inch and traced the templateand followed the contoured. This was ok but not exact as I still had to finalize shaping with a drum sander after cutting on the bandsaw. I thought there was a way to achieve this with bushings but the rabbetting ideas seem to be the way to go.


----------



## Bgjazz (Aug 22, 2015)

Actually I just used 1/4" as an example but the actually reduction would be 5/32". This is where I ran out of ideas. Sorry about that...I just thought that there was a normal process to reduce a pattern. I looked into different bearing sizes etc..and couldn't find the right combo.


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Stick486 said:


> Mike..
> isn't that going the opposite way????


Depends on if it is a male or female template.

Mike is assuming, female..

The OP does not say...


----------



## Bgjazz (Aug 22, 2015)

They would be both male templates...picture half the body of a guitar..the template is the body itself


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Bgjazz said:


> Actually I just used 1/4" as an example but the actually reduction would be 5/32". This is where I ran out of ideas. Sorry about that...I just thought that there was a normal process to reduce a pattern. I looked into different bearing sizes etc..and couldn't find the right combo.


If my math is correct, here is a way to make a new pattern that's 5/32" smaller than the original. You would need a 5/16" straight bit, a 3/4" OD template guide, a 3/8" rabbeting bit and a flush trim bit. Use the guide bushing and 5/16" bit to give a new pattern that's 7/32" LARGER than the original. Second step would be to cut a 3/8" rabbet around the NEW pattern and the final step would trim the lip flush, giving the required undersize pattern.


----------



## Bgjazz (Aug 22, 2015)

Wow thats creative but the math works!! I will give that a try


----------

