# Parts coming out different sizes



## cncjones (5 mo ago)

Hello everyone, this is driving me crazy! I'm trying to make a small wood snowman, I have 2 parts that fit together and when routed out the main circles are perfect, the male and female parts are way off, 3/16" off. It makes the head area larger and the body smaller where they fit together. The router movements are perfect when making other parts it's just where they join
using aspire 3.09 old version, it also happens in Rhino, any words of advice or direction are appreciated. This is the drawing in Aspire


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

This is a pic of the test run from the drawing above


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

Post your crv3d file and I will take a look at it. What size end mill are you using?


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @cncjones


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum...


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> Post your crv3d file and I will take a look at it. What size end mill are you using?


I'm using 1/4" end mill, it won't let me upload the crv file. Is there a certain method for uploading it?


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

jw2170 said:


> Welcome to the forum...


Thank you


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

old55 said:


> Welcome to the forum @cncjones


Thank you


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

cncjones said:


> I'm using 1/4" end mill, it won't let me upload the crv file. Is there a certain method for uploading it?


Zip the file and see if you can upload it. If not then send a PM to @gwiki and see if he can assist. Alternatively you can put the file in Dropbox and post a link for download (or Google Drive, etc.). I don't use Vectric so I'm not much help.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

difalkner said:


> Zip the file and see if you can upload it. If not then send a PM to @gwiki and see if he can assist. Alternatively you can put the file in Dropbox and post a link for download (or Google Drive, etc.). I don't use Vectric so I'm not much help.


Let me know if this works, thank you





Test pieces.crv3d







drive.google.com


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I can easily draw this snowman, but I do not know what format YOU NEED in order to import it. What software are you using?

Joe


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

cncjones said:


> Hello everyone, this is driving me crazy! I'm trying to make a small wood snowman, I have 2 parts that fit together and when routed out the main circles are perfect, the male and female parts are way off, 3/16" off. It makes the head area larger and the body smaller where they fit together. The router movements are perfect when making other parts it's just where they join
> using aspire 3.09 old version, it also happens in Rhino, any words of advice or direction are appreciated. This is the drawing in Aspire
> View attachment 402257



It LOOKS like you have set the cut path for the router bit to 1/4" off of the design. The path must guide the CENTER of the bit, not the outer edge. Set the offseet to 1/8" for a 1/4" bit and try that.

Joe


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

What software uses the *cvr3d* file format? I cannot open it with anything that I have

Joe


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hobbyist said:


> What software uses the *cvr3d* file format? I cannot open it with anything that I have
> 
> Joe


First post; he's using Aspire.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Ahhh ... I should have caught that. I have not yet upgraded to Aspire.

Joe


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

The Hobbyist said:


> I can easily draw this snowman, but I do not know what format YOU NEED in order to import it. What software are you using?
> 
> Joe
> 
> ...


Aspire or Rhino


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

The Hobbyist said:


> It LOOKS like you have set the cut path for the router bit to 1/4" off of the design. The path must guide the CENTER of the bit, not the outer edge. Set the offseet to 1/8" for a 1/4" bit and try that.
> 
> Joe


I have it to cut the outside of the part, from the center of the bit it measures .125, it cut all parts perfect but not the puzzle part. I've made a lot of things with Aspire and this router and this is the first time it has not worked


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

This shows the bit on the outside of the work


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

Sorry for the delay. I have not yet run the file in material. I did the visualization in aspire, as you did. In the visualization, measuring the pieces shows that they will fit together, EXCEPT, the bit you are using is too big for the "head tab"as you can see in your last post. That bit cannot get into the tight corner. However, the width of the "mortise" if I can call it that and the width of the "tenon" indicate that the two parts will fit together - with the issue of the tight corner.

I will try to get time to run it in 3/4" material later today and get back to you.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> Sorry for the delay. I have not yet run the file in material. I did the visualization in aspire, as you did. In the visualization, measuring the pieces shows that they will fit together, EXCEPT, the bit you are using is too big for the "head tab"as you can see in your last post. That bit cannot get into the tight corner. However, the width of the "mortise" if I can call it that and the width of the "tenon" indicate that the two parts will fit together - with the issue of the tight corner.
> 
> I will try to get time to run it in 3/4" material later today and get back to you.


Hi gwiki, when I route them the parts that fit together are 3/16 off, on my drawing it shows the parts 0.5183 on the widest point of both parts, when it cut the male part it becomes 0.584, the female part comes out to 0.410 and it should be 0.5183. the main body area is 3" perfect, so if the tool path shows it's cutting to the line on the puzzle piece why are they so different? I have done larger pieces and they come out the same way, could there be something in Mach3 that needs tweaking? I've gone in and rounded the corners off to the endmill size so there were no sharp corners and it keeps coming out 3/16" is the size on the puzzle pieces only. I can go in and make the pieces different sizes until they fit and after about 6 practice cuts it will work but I have not found a formula to go by. I've made round windows with keys and they fit perfectly but I haven't attempted a puzzle before, I don't understand it. I'll do it with an 1\8" bit today and post the results just for giggles
Thanks for your help


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

OK, I just ran it. I ran it using your toolpath and bit - no changes at all. The parts were close, but too tight to fit.

I then changed to a 1/8" bit. I did two toolpaths; one for the body and one for the head. On the body, I used your path parameters. Outside, no offset. For the head, I stayed with outside, but used a -.004 offset. (This is a pretty standard setting that I use for jiigsaw puzzles in 3/4" material. Make sure you use negative.) The pieces fit quite snuggly. Even with the 1/8", the corners on the head are not as sharp as on the body, but they fit together. I can't send you the new file, as my version of Aspire if newer than yours. However, if you make these changes, I'm sure that you will be fine. Let everyone know how you make out.

I'm sorry that I can't help you with Mach3. I am running a grbl machine, so I can't use Mach3. I need to slow things down, too, as your feed rates and depth of cuts are a bit much for my machine. If you can do bigger projects with no issues, you may be stressing the machine or getting bit flex on these sharper turns. A bit far fetched, but maybe.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

So this is my result cutting each piece separately with a 1/4" on the left (hoping it would make a difference) and using a 1/8" on the right, the female parts are 7/16" and the male parts are 9/16"


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> OK, I just ran it. I ran it using your toolpath and bit - no changes at all. The parts were close, but too tight to fit.
> 
> I then changed to a 1/8" bit. I did two toolpaths; one for the body and one for the head. On the body, I used your path parameters. Outside, no offset. For the head, I stayed with outside, but used a -.004 offset. (This is a pretty standard setting that I use for jiigsaw puzzles in 3/4" material. Make sure you use negative.) The pieces fit quite snuggly. Even with the 1/8", the corners on the head are not as sharp as on the body, but they fit together. I can't send you the new file, as my version of Aspire if newer than yours. However, if you make these changes, I'm sure that you will be fine. Let everyone know how you make out.
> 
> I'm sorry that I can't help you with Mach3. I am running a grbl machine, so I can't use Mach3. I need to slow things down, too, as your feed rates and depth of cuts are a bit much for my machine. If you can do bigger projects with no issues, you may be stressing the machine or getting bit flex on these sharper turns. A bit far fetched, but maybe.


I slow it down, don't like putting stress on things, speed I'm running around 40 and on mine that's pretty slow


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't believe that I can do any more for you, unfortunately. There is nothing in the aspire file causing this, as I can run it and get good results - with the small offset. So, something is going wrong between aspire and mach3.I know nothing about mach3. The only thing that I can think of is to ensure that you are using the correct post processor out of aspire.

Sorry I can't be of any help.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

cncjones said:


> I slow it down, don't like putting stress on things, speed I'm running around 40 and on mine that's pretty slow


I will try that, thank you


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

cncjones said:


> I slow it down, don't like putting stress on things, speed I'm running around 40 and on mine that's pretty slow


Ok, just tried that, it reduced it by maybe 1/32", I'm still off close to 3/16". mine is not cutting on the puzzle piece, the body is perfect. I'm at a loss and I don't give up easily, I've got hours into this and nothing changes, should I uninstall Aspire and re-install


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> I don't believe that I can do any more for you, unfortunately. There is nothing in the aspire file causing this, as I can run it and get good results - with the small offset. So, something is going wrong between aspire and mach3.I know nothing about mach3. The only thing that I can think of is to ensure that you are using the correct post processor out of aspire.
> 
> Sorry I can't be of any help.


Thank you for all that you have done, it works on yours so the file is good from Aspire so that tells me something. I'll keep trying


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

Have you ever got something like this to work? If so, it's just a matter (easy to say) of figuring out what has changed since the successful projects. If you have not, I would look to the post processor that you are using in Aspire to create the tool paths. It almost seems like it has an offset in it. That would certainly explain why things are off. 

As I am running a grbl machine, using the PP that I use is not an option for you. I do know, though, that if I choose the wrong PP, even if it is another grbl-based one, strange things can happen.

If you can post the PP here, I can take a look at it. PP files are just fancy text files, so it may be easy to detect any offsets in it. Just a thought.

Good luck.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> Have you ever got something like this to work? If so, it's just a matter (easy to say) of figuring out what has changed since the successful projects. If you have not, I would look to the post processor that you are using in Aspire to create the tool paths. It almost seems like it has an offset in it. That would certainly explain why things are off.
> 
> As I am running a grbl machine, using the PP that I use is not an option for you. I do know, though, that if I choose the wrong PP, even if it is another grbl-based one, strange things can happen.
> 
> ...


Separate pieces work fine, curved, round, light switch cover plates, signs, and so on work spot on, puzzle piece not so much and like I said a few times the body and head of what I'm doing is dead on, I have tried other PP with no luck, I'll see if I can post it


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

I think this is going to be my last post, I switched PP and had to adjust my X axis a little and tested some 3" circles, I got it down to the thousands on the caliper and it couldn't be any closer. but this part on the connections is way off again, drawing measures .4445 on male and female I know the male needs to be a bit smaller but for a test run I wanted to see what would happen, the male part measures .474 and the female is .397 so it makes one part larger and the other smaller so it's 3/32 off total. running everything slow and easy with .25 end mill


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## gwilki (Nov 12, 2012)

I would suggest that you post this on the Vectric forum. There are guys on there who are wizards. They will figure it out. It's clear that I can't. Sorry. Take care.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

gwilki said:


> I would suggest that you post this on the Vectric forum. There are guys on there who are wizards. They will figure it out. It's clear that I can't. Sorry. Take care.


Thanks, it's a tough one to figure out


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

cncjones said:


> I think this is going to be my last post,


Don't run off! We want you to stick around on the forum.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

difalkner said:


> Don't run off! We want you to stick around on the forum.


Not going anywhere, this project has worn me down on a solution.


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## maddog (Feb 28, 2010)

gwilki said:


> I don't believe that I can do any more for you, unfortunately. There is nothing in the aspire file causing this, as I can run it and get good results - with the small offset. So, something is going wrong between aspire and mach3.I know nothing about mach3. The only thing that I can think of is to ensure that you are using the correct post processor out of aspire.
> 
> Sorry I can't be of any help.


You could select the Mach3 post processor and just send him your GCode files. Mach3 can handle either .txt files or .tap files. He wouldn't have the actual Aspire file, but he would be able to run the code that you were successful using.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I know you said you were giving up but a few thoughts in case you decide to try again. You didn't say what machine you have so some of this could be moot but

have you tuned the steps/inch (or mm) of your machine? check that when you jog a longish distance in X and Y, it actually goes the distance you commanded.
maybe you have some backlash? If you jog a certain distance in one direction and then back the same amount in the opposite direction do you wind up in the exact same spot? Best to use a dial indicator if you have one.
some machines have a fair amount of flex - try cutting with a much shallower depth of cut and try a slower feed rate.
also, if you are using the 2D Profile tool path, try checking Do A Separate Last Pass. I'd try 0.05" (or 0.1mm).
measure your bits, sometimes they can be off by a surprising amount.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

PhilBa said:


> I know you said you were giving up but a few thoughts in case you decide to try again. You didn't say what machine you have so some of this could be moot but
> 
> have you tuned the steps/inch (or mm) of your machine? check that when you jog a longish distance in X and Y, it actually goes the distance you commanded.
> maybe you have some backlash? If you jog a certain distance in one direction and then back the same amount in the opposite direction do you wind up in the exact same spot? Best to use a dial indicator if you have one.
> ...


Thanks for what you mentioned, I can cut a circle or a square and it's within .002 but as soon as I add the puzzle piece to it, it cuts the part I added way off as you see in the photo. it seems to be the function of adding to a circle, I've tried the weld option, cut it with the trim vectors tool, but something happens when I change the shape of the circle, I tried different .25 bits and it will cut the circle part perfectly no matter if I cut it at 1/16" deep or 1/4". I have uninstalled aspire and reinstalled it this morning, it is so strange that it only cuts the puzzle pieces the wrong size, different PP
The machine is set to inch, no backlash, no flex, I jog it and its spot on. What I don't get is the puzzle pieces are off so much and everything else is perfect. I've been using this machine since 2008, and this has never happened and now it won't go away, but in saying that I have not done a puzzle piece before. All I'm trying to do is to make some snowmen for Santa's workshop so the kids can help Santa put them together
Not going to give up, I probably have 30 test cuts and they all come out the same no matter if I use a 1/16" or a 1/4" bit


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## Old Ray (Feb 19, 2021)

Just a thought from an old guy. Are you running the cut ,, On the vector,,, inside the vector,,, outside the vector ? Check that and make adjustments from there if that might the case.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

Old Ray said:


> Just a thought from an old guy. Are you running the cut ,, On the vector,,, inside the vector,,, outside the vector ? Check that and make adjustments from there if that might the case.


Outside on everthing


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

I think I got it figured out, I have to make a separate tool path for each piece. If I select both of them and create one tool path it will not come out right


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Glad you found a solution. Reading through this, I am also wondering if some of the issue is the version of Aspire you are using. You mentioned you were using version 3.09, which is well over 10 years old, as it is currently in version 11. I would imaging that toolpath calculation has come a long way since then. I know it is pricey software, but it may be time to upgrade, or even consider looking at VCarve Pro or Desktop if budget is a concern.


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## MarkJonesRanger (Aug 14, 2020)

Vcarve Pro you can select a bunch of objects (grouped vectors or individual vectors) and they all cut out fine using the same tool path. I have cut over 300 projects in the past 2.5 years using Vcarve Desktop and Vcarve Pro. In Aspire can you save as a CDR and send me the file and I will try and cut it on my machine. It's a shark. Mine cuts everything exactly as programed to cut. You could also export the two vectors out to a SVG email it to me and I will cut them. 
Then send you back a CDR file which Aspire can handle. [email protected] 

Everytime I thought the machine was wrong it was always me and one of my settings was off. They fix bugs all the time but that doesn't happen that often. Well in my little ole world it doesn't happen that often. HA!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

MarkJonesRanger said:


> Everytime I thought the machine was wrong it was always me and one of my settings was off. They fix bugs all the time but that doesn't happen that often. Well in my little ole world it doesn't happen that often. HA!


Truer words were never spoken! I recently thought I had found a real bug in VCarve Pro - nope. In my defense, several others had run into the same problem.


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## cncjones (5 mo ago)

Thanks everyone, I thought I had it down and it was a 1/16" off, if I do a circle and add a square instead of locking puzzle piece it cuts perfect and fits the first time. I just made the two pieces together and skipped the puzzle part, I'll upgrade a little later, I really like Aspire and all of its features. Thanks again for your time and comments


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## wyzarddocbill (5 mo ago)

cncjones said:


> Not going anywhere, this project has worn me down on a solution.


With Mach 3 Your post processor header could be the problem. Or you machine with mach 3 missing steps try going very slow. If you go very slow and get an improvement then your machine is bending under load and needs stiffening.


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