# The importance of Micro Adjust on Router Fence



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Companies like Kreg, Woodpeckers and Incra like to tout their micro adjust features of their fences. 

The vast majority of router tables on the market do not have a micro adjust systems on their fence systems. 

Do you feel micro adjust is a critical feature for a router table fence or do you find it's a nice to have feature rather than a necessary feature?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Have never had occasion to use mine on either the router or the bandsaw fence. You might want to watch some Marc Sommerfeld videos to see his technique. Very simple and very accurate methods.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

As one who learned router use from the Router Workshop, I see no need for the micro adjust fences. On the other hand, some now inactive members of the RouterForums expressed great liking for such features. 
Is a micro adjust feature essential? no 
Would it be nice to have? Some people think so. 
Would a micro adjust feature on a router fence increase productivity? IMHO, and only MHO the time spent adjusting the fence would be no less than the time spent adjusting a standard manual fence. 
Which would be more helpful, a micro adjust fence or another router? your preference. My preference would be another router.
It might be amusing to watch some of the RouterWorkshop videos on YouTube, inn addition to the Marc Sommerfeld videos referenced by @DesertRatTom


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I have these fitted to my home made fence. I am a hobby woodworker, not making stuff for money.

UJK Technology Fine Fence Adjusters for Router Tables - Router Table Fences & Accessories - Routing - Power Tool Accessories - Accessories | Axminster Tools & Machinery

I dont use them very often. But when using the router as an edge planer with an offset fence I can micro adjust untill there is no snipe at all.

I like them.

But if youre just setting the fence in relation to the cutter for a straight cut, this is just as accurate and much much cheaper. You can measure height and offset with them.

Trend GAUGE/1 Router Depth gauge - Metric/Imperial | Powertool World


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

sunnybob said:


> I have these fitted to my home made fence. I am a hobby woodworker, not making stuff for money.
> 
> UJK Technology Fine Fence Adjusters for Router Tables - Router Table Fences & Accessories - Routing - Power Tool Accessories - Accessories | Axminster Tools & Machinery
> 
> ...


The primary task where the micro adjust can help is dados, rabbits, in dovetail and box joints.

The Incra LS's ability to create box joints and dovetails mainly relies on the LS positioner's ability to make micro adjustment. 

It's not as easy as they make it look in the Incra videos. It takes a lot of practice to get the dove tails to work on the Incra table.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There is one fence, and I can't remember which one, that had lots of complaints because they had trouble zeroing the fence back out after using the micro adjust. I just make a pencil mark at one end of the fence and loosen that end. The pencil mark gives me a visual reference as to how far I'm moving that end which is of course divided in half as long as the other end stays put where you clamped it.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> .................I just make a pencil mark at one end of the fence and loosen that end. The pencil mark gives me a visual reference as to how far I'm moving that end which is of course divided in half as long as the other end stays put where you clamped it.


Now there was I thinking I was the only one who did that. My current router table has mm measurements each end, so if I move the fence 1 mm one end only, it's half a mm at the cutter. Problem I have ATM is that my router table won't hold either of my good routers and it's not that accurate. The table I want to build will be taking my hitachi 12ve (v2) or whatever it is, and that is definately accurate.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

From time to time, I use my set of feeler gauges that I have owned since 1967. Why do I remember that year so vividly? That is when I bought a new Chevelle w/350hp 327 engine...and it did get a few upgrades including roller rocker arms, etc. Some of the gauges are dented.:surprise::grin:


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I think that we need to keep in mind that Incra Tool's did not come into existence to make woodworkers happy, but their purpose for being in business is to make money.

With that goal in mind they created tools that woodworkers would buy. The tools had to be such that they would be so well liked that a lot of people would buy them. They have accomplished that goal and apparently are doing very well.

Certainly micro adjust is not a neccessay feature on a router table's fence, but for some folks such as myself, I wouldn't want to be without it. This is probably due to the fact that I have gotten used to it. Had I never used the feature, I probably would never missed it.

I'd like to hear from a member that has a an Incra router fence with micro adjust that is sorry that they bought it. 

Yes, the feature may well fit into the list of unneccessay luxury items, but what is wrong with that. I'd love to have a high end TS, but it would just be a luxury as my present saw does all that I ask of it and it does it with ease.

Sure would be a boring world if we were all alkike with like needs, wants, and ideas wouldn't it?

Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

vindaloo said:


> Now there was I thinking I was the only one who did that. My current router table has mm measurements each end, so if I move the fence 1 mm one end only, it's half a mm at the cutter. Problem I have ATM is that my router table won't hold either of my good routers and it's not that accurate. The table I want to build will be taking my hitachi 12ve (v2) or whatever it is, and that is definately accurate.


I said put the mark on the fence when I meant put it on the table close to the fence. You knew what I meant.

I have both the V and the V2 Angie and I use the V2 in my table. It was designed in my opinion for the table. I'm not familiar with the VE. If you do have the V2 you may not be aware that above the table adjustment is possible with it. There is a 14mm nut on the end of the threaded adjustment rod under the phenolic base plate. I use a mechanic's speeder handle with that socket on it to run mine up and down and the only way it could be faster is if I put the socket on a drill instead.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Steven Owen said:


> Companies like Kreg, Woodpeckers and Incra like to tout their micro adjust features of their fences.
> 
> The vast majority of router tables on the market do not have a micro adjust systems on their fence systems.
> 
> Do you feel micro adjust is a critical feature for a router table fence or do you find it's a nice to have feature rather than a necessary feature?


No, I don't feel it's a necessary addition to a router table. 

Now, this is MY opinion only. I've never owned an adjustable fence of any kind, in much the same way I've never owned a router lift.. I don't see a need for either item. I'm plodding along quite nicely without them. Now, perhaps I would like one, or both.. but I'm too frugal, SWMBO would say cheap, to purchase one. 

Lots of different ways to enjoy this hobby... and my way is surely NOT the only way.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I think that we need to keep in mind that Incra Tool's did not come into existence to make woodworkers happy, but their purpose for being in business is to make money.
> 
> With that goal in mind they created tools that woodworkers would buy. The tools had to be such that they would be so well liked that a lot of people would buy them. They have accomplished that goal and apparently are doing very well.
> 
> ...


Incra pushed Woodpeckers to revise their table designs for better accuracy. 

If you make a lot of drawers and boxes. The Incra LS pays for itself by eliminating the need for $500 -$600 dollars of add-on's. 

Incra was he first company to make the micro adjustments useful for complex jointing. 

When it comes to shaping, it has no advantage over the Kreg or other cheaper options.

The Digital readout for Jessem that can be adapted for Incra tables is just plain over kill. It does nothing that cannot be accomplished with a set-up bars. 

The Digital Lift readout is a pure toy. It doesn't offer any additional functionality.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

A little off subject Steven, but would you mind telling me what "set-up bars" are. I hear them referred to from time to time on this forum but have never been clued in to what they are and what they do.

Jerry


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> ...........I have both the V and the V2 Angie and I use the V2 in my table. It was designed in my opinion for the table. I'm not familiar with the VE. If you do have the V2 ................


 @Cherryville Chuck I have the M12VE. It doesn't have built in above table adjustment but I added it, see image below. It has a knob on what would be the lowest part of the router when under a table, but it has a hex socket at the base end which is visible so I can use one of those otherwise useless zigzag allen keys you get with flat pack furniture to wind it up or down. Alternatively I can use a hex socket in my otherwise redundant ryobi cordless screwdriver. It's mounted on 2 sheets of bonded 8mm plexi which works very well as I can make the supports for it very close to the router as once in my new table (to be built) it won't need to come out very often at all.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> A little off subject Steven, but would you mind telling me what "set-up bars" are. .............


Set up bars are usually brass as it's a soft metal and if it touches the blade it won't damage it. They come in different thicknesses and you stack them to your desired height, place them next to the blade or router bit and align the top of either with the top of the stack of setup bars.
Precision Brass Setup Bars | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

@Jerry Bowen

Here's a better example


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Jerry Bowen said:


> A little off subject Steven, but would you mind telling me what "set-up bars" are. I hear them referred to from time to time on this forum but have never been clued in to what they are and what they do.
> 
> Jerry


Kreg has their own set-up bars as well. They're made of soft aluminum and have a depth gauge. 

It's just a different approach to brass set-up bars.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

vindaloo said:


> Set up bars are usually brass as it's a soft metal and if it touches the blade it won't damage it. They come in different thicknesses and you stack them to your desired height, place them next to the blade or router bit and align the top of either with the top of the stack of setup bars.
> Precision Brass Setup Bars | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware


I sort of assumed that what is described is what the set up bars are but was not certain.

In a set of the bars, what is the thinnest one or can a person just arrange the stack in a manner to get to, for example, a set up that goes to a tolerance of 1/32", if needed.

Jerry


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

BrianS said:


> No, I don't feel it's a necessary addition to a router table.
> 
> Now, this is MY opinion only. I've never owned an adjustable fence of any kind, in much the same way I've never owned a router lift.. I don't see a need for either item. I'm plodding along quite nicely without them. Now, perhaps I would like one, or both.. but I'm too frugal, SWMBO would say cheap, to purchase one.
> 
> Lots of different ways to enjoy this hobby... and my way is surely NOT the only way.


Got no router fence, don't want one, don't need one. When the time comes to use one, then a chunk of wood, clamped down, will fine, I can make that just as accurate as I want.

Same with a router lift, don't have one, don't want one, just popping the plate and router out is my preferred method. 

I'm not frugal, just broke.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I sort of assumed that what is described is what the set up bars are but was not certain.
> 
> In a set of the bars, what is the thinnest one or can a person just arrange the stack in a manner to get to, for example, a set up that goes to a tolerance of 1/32", if needed.
> 
> Jerry


Most sets are down to 1/8 an inch.

The Veritas set from Lee Valley is in the only set-up bar package that goes down to 1/32.

Veritas® Set-Up Blocks - Lee Valley Tools


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Fine adjustment tool = quick tap on the fence. If you want to get scientific... take this advice from Matthias Table saw fence micro adjusting


Height adjustment is usually with the brass set up bars, or with the stock I am working with. woodworking tolerances don't require going to the thousandth of an inch.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I had one and never used it. They sound like a good idea until you realize that for the most part that level of precision isn't necessary with a router.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

In some cases I would think gong down to .001 of an inch is detrimental. Wood expands and contracts. Making a joint too tight can lead to cracking down the road. 

A Canadian cutting board company CNC manufactured Maple end grain cutting board to .001 inch tolerances. All of their cutting boards cracked and split. They didn't account for the expansion and contraction of the maple over time.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree about the woodworking, I can spit on a pieces of wood and get it to move thousandths, so for many using wood working to thousandths simply isn't required.

That doesn't mean a system like incra and other screw set ups like microfence that measure and move fences, jigs, fixtures or tooling in thousandths of an inch doesn't help. It really does help depending on the work.

I don't make an inlay only to 1/32" between shapes which is 0.03125" and be happy with it. So thousandths do matter for initial construction FOR ME. I know most guys here would say building to 1/64th is doable, even what's required for a lot of work, thats 0.015625 of an inch.

Making parts with mating radii is one example where moving a bit to the thousandths is way better than tapping with a knuckle.

This is work I do every day. Using screws with movement to thousandth's of an inch made my work so much easier and better and no way in heck I could work without it now.

So yes, for many woodworkers tools that move to thousandth's simply is not required, being concerned how to design for wood movement is far more important. But to say these precise router movements across the board are not needed for any woodworker is simply wrong. I would go as far as saying for my woodwork, working to thousandths does matter.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> I agree about the woodworking, I can spit on a pieces of wood and get it to move thousandths, so for many using wood working to thousandths simply isn't required.
> 
> That doesn't mean a system like incra and other screw set ups like microfence that measure and move fences, jigs, fixtures or tooling in thousandths of an inch doesn't help. It really does help depending on the work.
> 
> ...


The biggest advantage to the precision of the Incra Positioner is box joint alignment. It provides a quick and reliable method for making perfectly aligned box joints very quickly.

If you use the Porter Cable Dovtial Jig for a couple of projects. You'll gain an immediate appreciation for how simple the Incra positioner is in no time flat.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh I agree.

I have the Incra fence on my table saw and have another set up for my router table( I never use it anymore), plus I use the MicroFence set up. So I am an advocate of micro adjustments to the thousandths. Those intricate box joints are a great example of a place this type of precision helps tremendously, even for wood.

Though my work needs this type of movement more for lateral movement than height adjustments I see the benefit all around for thousandths precision for some, especially niche wood working.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> Oh I agree.
> 
> I have the Incra fence on my table saw and have another set up for my router table( I never use it anymore), plus I use the MicroFence set up. So I am an advocate of micro adjustments to the thousandths. Those intricate box joints are a great example of a place this type of precision helps tremendously, even for wood.
> 
> Though my work needs this type of movement more for lateral movement than height adjustments I see the benefit all around for thousandths precision for some, especially niche wood working.


On on flipside, you have companies like DowelMax that over pitch their precision to sell a pricey product.

DowelMax tries to knock Jessem's Dowel Jig for not being able to easily center a dowel on 5/8 plywood. 

Unless your trying to put dowels in fir or another construction grade plywood, most hardwood plywood is 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch. 

Why create a problem by introducing 5/8 plywood to begin with?

You can use a $30 Incra/Woodpeckers ruler to set the Jessem Jig at 2/8 and 1/16 of an inch. It's not rocket science. You can also just buy a cheap self Centering Jig for that task. 

It doesn't require spending $500 bucks on the DowelMax and all of it's add on's when a ruler can do the job.


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## Woodworker3 (Jul 24, 2017)

*Incra Lover*

May I add my two cents to this discussion on a router fence. For years I used the techniques of pencil marks to adjust the fence. But I fell in love with the Incra table saw fence a long time ago and bit the bullet for one of those fences. I would not trade it for anything now. I trust it for cutting anything on that saw. No measuring at all. Just lock it in at the length you want. In fact I just made some shims for adjusting drawers being installed. I cut 1/16th 1/8 th and 1/4 without any problems at all. It would even cut 1/32 if you like. It is NOT finicky to adjust. In fact I remove it when cutting plywood and then reinstall it to its original setting very easily. 
That said about the table saw, I would add that once I bought the router fence from Incra I would never go back to the old marking on the table top or tapping it a little more to get it "exactly right". I use all of its features and they are a joy to use. When setting up a router bit for depth of cut into the wood from the side, I just use the 1/2 way stop on the locking arm to get close (1/32 increments on the fence) to the edge of the router bit and then use a straight edge rule to "dial in" the exact edge of the router bit using the micro adjust. That way when I move the fence 1/8th or 1/4 inch I know the cut is exactly that wide. I also take small bites when routing large door frame bits by using the 1/8 inch steps on the Incra ruler. Again once you have it you will love it. 
They are fine tools that make cutting wood faster and accurate . It is kind of like Craftsman saw blades verses DeForrest saw blades. Once you use De Forrest you won't go back to the cheap stuff.


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## denis lock (Oct 26, 2007)

If you use your router table to cut accurate joints for fine woodworking projects the ability to micro adjust the fence is a must. What is not necessary is an expensive after market fence with built-in micro adjust or an expensive micro adjust add-on for your existing fence.
I routinely adjust my fence to 0,1mm (4 thou) using a C-clamp, a block of wood and a piece of 80 gsm (standard office paper) paper shim.

Denis Lock - Routing with Denis

Expensive fishing lures are made to catch fishermen, not fish!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I sort of assumed that what is described is what the set up bars are but was not certain.
> 
> In a set of the bars, what is the thinnest one or can a person just arrange the stack in a manner to get to, for example, a set up that goes to a tolerance of 1/32", if needed.
> 
> Jerry


In Harry's tutorials he shows zeroing his plunge router bit to zero (touching the tip of the bit to a table top in hand held format) and then he uses drill bits to set the plunge depth. In Imperial that would give you 1/64" increments. I don't have a metric drill index but it would give at least mm adjustments and maybe 1/2mm adjustments too.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Steven Owen said:


> On on flipside, you have companies like DowelMax that over pitch their precision to sell a pricey product.
> 
> DowelMax tries to knock Jessem's Dowel Jig for not being able to easily center a dowel on 5/8 plywood.
> 
> ...


In melamine coated particle board the standard size for cabinetry is 5/8" and doweling panels to locate them to the correct spot is common. That is most likely what they were aiming at with that size.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Woodworker3 said:


> May I add my two cents to this discussion on a router fence. For years I used the techniques of pencil marks to adjust the fence. But I fell in love with the Incra table saw fence a long time ago and bit the bullet for one of those fences. I would not trade it for anything now. I trust it for cutting anything on that saw. No measuring at all. Just lock it in at the length you want. In fact I just made some shims for adjusting drawers being installed. I cut 1/16th 1/8 th and 1/4 without any problems at all. It would even cut 1/32 if you like. It is NOT finicky to adjust. In fact I remove it when cutting plywood and then reinstall it to its original setting very easily.
> That said about the table saw, I would add that once I bought the router fence from Incra I would never go back to the old marking on the table top or tapping it a little more to get it "exactly right". I use all of its features and they are a joy to use. When setting up a router bit for depth of cut into the wood from the side, I just use the 1/2 way stop on the locking arm to get close (1/32 increments on the fence) to the edge of the router bit and then use a straight edge rule to "dial in" the exact edge of the router bit using the micro adjust. That way when I move the fence 1/8th or 1/4 inch I know the cut is exactly that wide. I also take small bites when routing large door frame bits by using the 1/8 inch steps on the Incra ruler. Again once you have it you will love it.
> They are fine tools that make cutting wood faster and accurate . It is kind of like Craftsman saw blades verses DeForrest saw blades. Once you use De Forrest you won't go back to the cheap stuff.


People confuse the real advantage of the Incra LS design. It's not about firing everything within 1/1000th of an inch. 

The positioner is all about making rapid repeatable cuts in quick succession. The LS system lets you cut 12 pins exactly a 1/4 of an inch apart without batting an eye.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

DIY

Router Fence Micro Adjuster ? WoodArchivist

Router Table Fence Micro Adjuster ? WoodArchivist


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Us humans is kinda funny ain't we???

Each of us has our own opinions on almost everyothing and every opinion is the right one for the person with his or her opinion. 

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

JOAT said:


> Got no router fence, don't want one, don't need one. When the time comes to use one, then a chunk of wood, clamped down, will fine, I can make that just as accurate as I want.
> 
> Same with a router lift, don't have one, don't want one, just popping the plate and router out is my preferred method.
> 
> I'm not frugal, just broke.


Theo, you don't need to be wealthy to make a decent fence or router lift.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Regarding fence micro adjustment, I had/have a "precision" micro adjustable fence and for many years it has resided in an unused corner of the shed collecting dust, my simple fence shown in the previous post is far Superior.


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

I use the same micro adjustment technique as denisl. The amount of adjustment is determined by feeler gauges, drills bits, or the Lee valley Set-Up Blocks, which I am utilizing more and more.

For those Not-In-The-Know 'bout the Lee Valley Set-up Blocks: Veritas® Set-Up Blocks - Lee Valley Tools


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Using feelers and set up block in no way eliminates the needs for micro adjust mechanism using screws. I have it all use them all, but for the most part anytime I can design a jig that uses a screw it's the way I go. Screws are simply more precise and faster in nearly every instance FOR ME. 


If I set up a height of a router I pull out my 1/4" brass block and use it to set the height. Then if after the test cut I need a small adjustment I turn my micro adjust screw. This is just one example.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bump


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Eight years ago or there abouts I picked up the Incra LS17 and wonderfence. After years of bump and run, tap and clamp and countless other attempts at achieving the accuracy I desired I found it with the Incra product and I've never looked back. This is not to say that others have not used any number of methods to achieve similar results. What I would say is that for the novice attempting to achieve precision results the use of a micro adjustable rig is far superior to any other method and gives them a better chance at achieving desired results. There is not only a degree of accuracy that is inherent with experience, there is also a degree of expectation that comes with spending years honing ones skills. 

You can get into the debate of what is close enough? Does the end product warrant the required effort? Is it worth attempting to get 
within .010" or is .032 (1/32nd) or even .016 (1/64) close enough. The woodworker has to ask him/herself does it really matter? In all honesty the vast majority of projects the hobbyist woodworker takes on does not require much more than 1/32 and in some cases I'd venture to say that taking it to 1/64 is really pushing it in terms of do ya really need to try for it. My approach has always been to attempt to get it as close as possible. For me, that means working withing .010 or better if possible. In my opinion, tolerances tighter than .010 is beyond my equipment and my patience to achieve such numbers. I do have a couple of exceptions to that rule and that is when doing inlay work. There I attempt to make it as tight as I possibly can, without exception. Anytime I've used the excuse of "close enough" I've regretted it. If only for the fact that "I" knew it wasn't as good as I could have or should have gotten it. Glues and fillers can only hide so much. At least to my mind anyways. That don't make it right, that don't make it wrong, just makes it my way of going about things. I don't always achieve expected results, but it is rarely for the lack of trying!

At the router table, I'am all for micro adjustable lifts and fences. A partial turn of the thumb wheel or a couple clicks of the fence and I'm where I wanna be or damn close to it. A couple thousands wider in a dado to get that perfect fit or a little more depth for a rabbet are easily and accurately obtained. Recreating profiles exactly is alot easier and less time consuming. Dovetails and box joints are a snap (perhaps snap isn't the right word *L*) but very doable none the less. Double dovetails and double box joints become within range of the average woodworker. The WonderFence provides an offset for edge work. Does it rather well at that. Here the adjust ability is achieved via a sliding wedge system. The tall fence portion of the WonderFence is somewhat lacking IMHO. Don't get me wrong, it works, I just would rather prefer a solid high fence. When I built my table I installed a digital height gauge for the router. I can't tell ya the last time I used it. After a while, you kinda get tuned into these things and you end up working by eye. Kind of an oxymoron. Some aspects of working on the router table I've learned to do by eye having learned what to look for using the micro-adjust ability of the Incra system. A good question to ask ones self is just how much time does one expect to spend at the router table. Another good question is does one have a penchant for or the patience to learn such things. 

Most equipment available today either has or has available an micro-adjustable feature. As much as you may like the idea, you gotta ask does it make good sense. Can you afford it (some of this stuff dont' come cheap) Will you use it after 6 weeks (ie my digital height gauge). Can you learn to achieve the results you desire without it. Do you have the time and patience to learn how to achieve those results. Will your typical project require the advantages of micro-adjust ability...etc. etc. etc... IF you spend little time at the router table, then I'd say the LS isn't the biggest bang for your buck. Perhaps the tablesaw, bandsaw, planer might be the place to spend your money if you must. 

As a result of micro adjustments I've spent an awful lot less time sanding. And if you've ever has to sand down a couple thousands worth of sugar maple, you'll appreciate that little fact!! Again and again. And I"m one of those guys who doesn't mind sanding. I enjoy building chess tables with mirror finished tops. and if a little micro adjust ability can save me .015/.030 worth of sanding, then I"m all for it....I'd much rather spend a few hours working on the mirror finish than prepping the surface for hours on end. 

Accumulated error: If you dont' know what it is, then you need to look it up..short version is if you have 6 pieces of wood that you want 3"s wide for a total of 18"s in the end. If you're off by .030 on all 6 pieces in total you'll be off .120, darn near an eighth of an inch. There are times when that eighth won't mean much if anything at all, then there are times when that eighth is going to be a big deal. 

Then there is the proverbial argument "Wood Moves". Yep it does...but are you looking at radial movement? Tangential movement? Flatsawn or Quartersawn? The kind of wood itself makes a difference in amount of movement. How you laying out your wood? Is the environment the project is going to similar to the one in which it was built? Most projects can absorb that difference between the two without much to worry about. But if your building a curio in Atlanta Georgia for someone living in Arizona, then ya gotta pay attention. Compression is just as much a problem as expansion...you just gotta pay attention. There is a great deal to the whole wood movement thing, and it pays to at the very least have a fairly reasonable working knowledge of it. Especially as your projects become more complex. What ever the case may be, I fail to see the disadvantage of using any micro adjustable feature you may have available. There are several wood movement calculators available online. Well worth downloading one and having it handy

As I mentioned earlier, this is just my way of going about things. Some may see this as just a lot of blah, blah, blah..others may find it of some value. For those who do find some value in my 2cents worth here.. take the time to do your homework, ask yourself the hard questions and above all else..be honest with your answers. There is no one way of doing anything, let alone woodwork. Spend the time and effort to find the way that works best for you. If tapping your way to a couple of thousandths works, then go for it...if a few clicks here or a turn of a thumb wheel there does it, then go for that. Ultimately finding what works for you will make the time spent in the shop much, much more enjoyable...


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Eight years ago or there abouts I picked up the Incra LS17 and wonderfence. After years of bump and run, tap and clamp and countless other attempts at achieving the accuracy I desired I found it with the Incra product and I've never looked back. This is not to say that others have not used any number of methods to achieve similar results. What I would say is that for the novice attempting to achieve precision results the use of a micro adjustable rig is far superior to any other method and gives them a better chance at achieving desired results. There is not only a degree of accuracy that is inherent with experience, there is also a degree of expectation that comes with spending years honing ones skills.
> 
> You can get into the debate of what is close enough? Does the end product warrant the required effort? Is it worth attempting to get
> within .010" or is .032 (1/32nd) or even .016 (1/64) close enough. The woodworker has to ask him/herself does it really matter? In all honesty the vast majority of projects the hobbyist woodworker takes on does not require much more than 1/32 and in some cases I'd venture to say that taking it to 1/64 is really pushing it in terms of do ya really need to try for it. My approach has always been to attempt to get it as close as possible. For me, that means working withing .010 or better if possible. In my opinion, tolerances tighter than .010 is beyond my equipment and my patience to achieve such numbers. I do have a couple of exceptions to that rule and that is when doing inlay work. There I attempt to make it as tight as I possibly can, without exception. Anytime I've used the excuse of "close enough" I've regretted it. If only for the fact that "I" knew it wasn't as good as I could have or should have gotten it. Glues and fillers can only hide so much. At least to my mind anyways. That don't make it right, that don't make it wrong, just makes it my way of going about things. I don't always achieve expected results, but it is rarely for the lack of trying!
> ...


Alternatively you have the iGauge Snap Back from Infinity tools which is digital depth gauge. 

For $20 dollars, you can make a Triton every bit as accurate as a Router lift using simple inexpensive tool like a Snap back gauge and adjust the Big height within .001 of an inch. 

https://www.infinitytools.com/igaging-multi-purpose-digital-snap-gauge


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

One thou. is fine in metalwork and easily achievable but in woodwork with the changing seasons, I don't think so.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

When I make a plan for wood on my CNC for inlays or mating parts the offsets are .003", the parts are a perfect fit every time using that small of a difference(as long I as glue them in that same day). If I make a mating radii with my hand router I need to be within .042 to .055 for a perfect fit and again you can't let the parts sit or they will move.

Say what you will, but being able to move router bits in these small movements makes all the difference in the world for certain work. I personally don't measure very often, I don't take a rule out, I do find my router bits width though uisng a digital caliper. I can't see thousandths with my eye, but I certainly can move a screw and count the rotations as each time it spins is .05, other screws will be different movements depending on thread count, even metric if you like. It just depends on the screw you use.

If someone doesn't want to try this method great, but once they do I think they will see the benefit to be able to move tooling in the thousands, even for wood. Any jig can be used with thousandths screw movement to make it better, even if you dont want to actually use numbers or measurements(its a heck of a hassle shimming or using a knuckle for very small movements), but if you want to you certainly can use numbers and measurement with a caliper to use thousandths movements in woodworking..

Here is video of an example of how using a screw movement to the thousandths can be very helpful for woodworking and it actually uses measured values. If this can't be seen as being beneficial then I can't do anymore to convince anyone, it's the way I work. This method actually lets me run a business. This same technique used for mating raddi is simply the best way I have found to use the method. Working in thousandths in woodworking is achievable and helpful, it's a fact. It repeatable(precision) accuracy. We can spit on wood and change it's dimension that's for sure, but that doesn't mean working with small movements, even thousandths, isn't helpful for initial construction for certain projects.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

There's good arguments both ways. Micro adjustments are a great invention of the modern age.

There's tons of antique furniture in the world that's 100-400 years old and still in use. 

All of those pieces of furniture were created with hand tools and the passion of a craftsmen. 

I still plan to learn how to do things the old fashion way too, by hand. 

Sometimes dependence on too many machines have created a bit of a disconnect between the woodworker and his project. 

People created dovetails and tenons by hand for many years. Many of those pieces are precise within 1/16 th of an inch.

A lot hand crafted pieces of furniture built without micro adjusts are often superior to today's high tech machine made furniture.

The biggest danger of too much dependence on gadgets and tech, is a disconnect with the project. The machine starts to think for you if you let it.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Steven Owen said:


> Alternatively you have the iGauge Snap Back from Infinity tools which is digital depth gauge. ............


That's the one I use. Works for router and tablesaw, depth and distance up to about 55mm IIRC.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> One thou. is fine in metalwork and easily achievable but in woodwork with the changing seasons, I don't think so.



Harry,
Of course you are right, nobody will argue with you about that truth. You can't cut a piece of wood to one thousandth no matter how careful you set the fence. You might make half a dozen cuts and just by chance, maybe, of them will accidently be dead on the target you are shooting for. Every cut that you make with that fence setting will vary by a few thousandths no matter how careful you are.

The part that I like with MA is that it makes setting the fence quick and easy. I recall having a friend back in the 60's that was a high end cabinet maker that learned his trade in Germany where he had to compete for his certificate. His kitches were beautiful and much demand. His table saw was contractor's saw and I recall watching him set the fence on his saw with a tape measure. This sure confirms to me that MA is simply a niceity and one that I for one really appreciate and would not want to be without.

I think that is what you are aluding to Hdarry, am I right?

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Of course you're right Jerry. Over the years I'v made many boxes incorporating inlays of various types and never had a bad fit, perhaps it's beginners luck!!!


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

harrysin said:


> Of course you're right Jerry. Over the years I'v made many boxes incorporating inlays of various types and never had a bad fit, perhaps it's beginners luck!!!


Woodworkers have been doing micro adjustments for 1000's of years. 

We call them hand planes.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> Of course you're right Jerry. Over the years I'v made many boxes incorporating inlays of various types and never had a bad fit, perhaps it's beginners luck!!!



Harry,

If you keep practicing, someday you might turn into a decent woodworker.

Only kidding of course Harry, beautiful examples of some very very fine work.

Jerry


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