# Which compact router, Bosch, Makita or other



## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

I am looking to buy a compact router and I am undecided on which way to go, yes, paralysis analysis, I recognize this.

Based on my research I had pretty much decided on the Bosch GKF125CEPK Kit. I like the Bosch reputation, I like the LED, cord relief, finger placement, clear round base, and other upgrades. The review at; *https://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/bosch-colt-router.html* was very helpful. I like the upgrades over the older Bosch PR20EVS model.

I am also looking at the Makita RT0701CX3 Kit, *I like the fact that the kit is so inclusive*, I like the tilt and offset base, which I don't believe is available on the Bosch, it seems to me that even if you do not use the tilt and offset base regularly, when the specific project arises they would be handy. I do not like that Makita did not include the LED light. I have a Makita tracksaw with 39 and 55 inch rails so that also factors in to the decision to some extent.

As far as intended use, nothing specific, maybe some sign work, woodworking, household projects here and there.

I have looked at the threads in the archives and both seem well liked. I know opinions change over time and hope to get some updated input. Then there is the DeWalt which I haven't looked at in depth. It seems to be well liked too.

One of the reasons I am posting this is also to see if I overlooked some obvious considerations.

Thanks to all for any help.

Edit To Add; Forgot to mention, I have a full size Craftsman router (which I will likely replace or supplement with a full size Bosch soon), so I am buying this as my second router for smaller projects.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Just a suggestion but if you can actually go somewhere that has these models on display I find it extremely helpful to see how the tool feels in my hands. The placement of the switch, the weight, many considerations. That said I bought my Bosch on reputation alone and my experience with the 1617EVPKS.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Not only would I choose the Makita but I DID! The full kit isn't available here in Australia so I bought it from America.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

If Harry likes the Makita, it's probably very good. I agree that hands on feel is probably in order. Switch location is the only thing I don't like about the 1617 but it's livable, and I like the knobs. I don't like the feel of the DeWalt raising and lowering mechanism. So the subjective is pretty much the deciding factor for me.


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## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

Thanks to all for the comments!

I have HD/Lowes local to me, and a few independent stores and I am going to try and put my hands on the different models to get a feel for the tool.

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I like Bosch..
good tools and great CS/TS


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Robert I have the older complete laminate trimmer kits with offset base, tilt base from Portor Cable and Bosch. Dewalt also made a kit with those bases. I have used those two bases a lot but you can get by without them.

The Makita RT0701CX3 Kit does have those 2 bases and the plunge base included. You can still get the older model Bosch PR20EVSNK kit with the bases but it is not as powerful as the newer trimmers. You can find offset and tilt bases available for Dewalt and Bosch but they are only for use with the older model routers.


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## RTR (Mar 20, 2019)

ABear said:


> One of the reasons I am posting this is also to see* if I overlooked some obvious considerations.*
> 
> Edit To Add; Forgot to mention, I have a full size Craftsman router (which I will likely replace or supplement with a full size Bosch soon), so I am buying this as my second router for smaller projects.



One obvious consideration that wouldn't have been 30 years ago, but is a very much viable option now, with lithium ion, is the convenience of cordless.

If you do get the Makita trim router, you will find that Makita's LXT 18v XTR01 Cordless Router easily and perfectly interchanges will all of the accessories, bases, guides, and parts that Harry shows on his workbench in the photo above. I in fact have both the cordless and corded version of this Makita trim router, and can personally attest to the interchange of all bases and parts at the working end of the router. Plunge base, tilt base, offset base, etc... all work seamlessly between the cordless and corded Makita.

I had purchased the cordless first, for the freedom and convenience of not having to dance around with a cord getting caught or cut. I ended up buying the corded kit because, as Harry illustrates, it included so many doo dads and accessories, it was cheaper to buy the entire kit on sale than it was to buy each individual accessory base, as accessories are rarely discounted as deeply as competitively priced tools and kits. So essentially, I got a free corded router and case, for the price of the accessories I would have purchased to outfit my cordless router anyway.

Rob Robillard, who runs A Concord Carpenter and Tool Box Buzz, did a comparison of five cordless trim routers, and found the Makita to be the smoothest and most precise. It was not the most powerful or fastest in the tests he conducted. It was however, the second highest in value, and the third highest overall. It lost points for not being as cheap as the Ryobi, or as powerful as the DeWalt. The Bosch Colt was not compared.

If you do go with the convenience of cordless, the battery platform that you are already on will likely weigh heavily in your selection.

But the ultimate litmus test is how the router fits in your hands, as the tool becomes an extension of your hand when doing the work.

To any and every extent possible... try before you buy. Don't forget to seek out smaller independent tool stores, rather than just look to what Lowes may have. Lowes doesn't carry Makita or Milwaukee or Ryobi. Neither Lowes nor Home Depot stock much in the way of Bosch, although they do carry a limited selection of Bosch branded products, mostly in the hammer drill and bit line. It will take some effort to get your actual paws in contact with the routers you may be considering.

But the consideration that I thought you might be overlooking is the convenience and nimbleness of cordless.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Didn't Bosch just introduce a new cordless trim router?

If this is it colour me less than impressed...


https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/cordless-palm-routers-36767-c/


23' of roundover per battery charge? That's got to be a typo(?). Once around a 4'x8' sheet of plywood, that's it. Sorry, not even remotely interested.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bosch corded...
*https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-PR20EVSNK-Installers-Fixed-Base-Variable-Speed/dp/B000EJX202*
That complete kit would be about $200US? Sold!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Didn't Bosch just introduce a new cordless trim router?
> 
> 
> If this is it colour me less than impressed...
> ...


per amp hour


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Can't find a battery listing for this thing. Wouldn't do me a lot of good, Don't really want other battery types one (DeWalt) is enough.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/12v-max-batteries-chargers-starter-kits-37940-c/*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> per amp hour


OK; my bad. Even so, not interested. I'd go with the Colt. May happen sooner than later...my old standby Ryobi trim router is making me crazy now; it won't hold a depth setting. The body moves in the cast frame, ruining a cut.

So, here's the thing. It wasn't particularly expensive when i bought it well over 30 yrs ago (maybe 40?), so following my own oft offered advice _time to just bite the bullet and buy new modern technology_!

The Ryobi doesn't owe me anything; paid for itself decades ago.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

ABear said:


> I am looking to buy a compact router and I am undecided on which way to go, yes, paralysis analysis, I recognize this.
> 
> Based on my research I had pretty much decided on the Bosch GKF125CEPK Kit. I like the Bosch reputation, I like the LED, cord relief, finger placement, clear round base, and other upgrades. The review at; https://www.aconcordcarpenter.com/bosch-colt-router.html was very helpful. I like the upgrades over the older Bosch PR20EVS model.
> 
> ...


.For what it's worth, I bought the Makita model, for essentially the same reasons you mentioned. I posted the manual in the Manuals section. Quillman (posthumously Honored Member Pat Warner) ripped into me about what he called defects and posted a link to his web site (no longer available) where I could spend money on his "improvement". I did not purchase it and see no reason why it would help.

The Bosch MRC23EVSK is a superb router.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I would give a round base negative marks... if the router is to be used to follow a straight edge or template.

The part of the base that rides on the edge/template must be kept absolutely perpendicular to the bit or gouging will occur. Whether the base contact point leads or lags the bit even a little it will decrease the distance to the bit... gouging...

A square base will provide more surface area (for the same diameter to the bit) and better holding power for your hand (thumb and forefinger at corners).

...just thinkin' out loud...

Good luck with your search... feel them in your hand before you buy... you may find others that suit your hand better...


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a dewalt 611 and like it. I have it on a CNC Router and they also offer the Makita. The Makita has a larger speed range over some others. The newest Makita is brush less and that is important long term. 

If you choose a cordless router consider that when the batteries run out of power they basically slow a little and then stop. As long as you are not going to route all day this may not be an issue. Many battery routers use a brake when turn the router off and that uses a lot of battery power. 

If you are going to buy I would definitely get the kits with plunge and regular bases. You may be surprised how often a plunge base can be used. But the Dewalt, Bosch, Makita and Porter Cable routers are all good routers concentrate on the value add of the number of accessories offered for each model. The Porter Cable and Dewalt are the same router. (Trim Router).


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Nickp said:


> I would give a round base negative marks...if the router is to be used to follow a straight edge or template.
> 
> The part of the base that rides on the edge/template must be kept absolutely perpendicular to the bit or gouging will occur. Whether the base contact point leads or lags the bit even a little it will decrease the distance to the bit...gouging...
> 
> ...


That really isn't correct, when routing an outside edge a bearing bit is used, not the base, and if routing around a template either a top bearing bit or a template guide is used.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I stand corrected for templates... but not for straight edge.

When following a straight edge it is critically and absolutely necessary to keep the contact point of the base perpendicular to the bit or gouging will occur...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> When following a straight edge it is critically and absolutely necessary to keep the contact point of the base perpendicular to the bit or gouging will occur...


How's that in plain English?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> how's that in plain english


Is that a statement or a question?

My geometry is a bit rusty but aren't radii always perpendicular to the arc of the circle. I can't visualize how they could be anything but, assuming the radii originate at the exact center of the circle. Another good reason for using the centering cone for the base plate.

Certainly a defect in the perimeter of the base plate could cause a squiggle in the cut line.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Is that a statement or a question?
> My geometry is a bit rusty but aren't radii always perpendicular to the arc of the circle. I can't visualize how they could be anything but, assuming the radii originate at the exact center of the circle. Another good reason for using the centering cone for the base plate.
> Certainly a defect in the perimeter of the base plate could cause a squiggle in the cut line.


I don't think that's what Nick meant...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Re: the better support offered by a square baseplate; I agree completely. That little Ryobi (yeah the one that's giving me problems lately) trim router has a square base and it's waaaay easier to use on something like a box edge, with the router riding on the narrow dimension. The fact that it's very light and I can hold it easily with one hand is a big bonus.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Is that a statement or a question?
> My geometry is a bit rusty but aren't radii always perpendicular to the arc of the circle. I can't visualize how they could be anything but, assuming the radii originate at the exact center of the circle. Another good reason for using the centering cone for the base plate.
> Certainly a defect in the perimeter of the base plate could cause a squiggle in the cut line.


You're exactly right, Dan...until you introduce the edge of a piece of wood. Then it's up to the operator to keep the base contact point perpendicular to the edge/bit.

I was pointing out that it's harder to do with a round base when using an edge guide and don't have a good edge on the piece to ride a bearing on...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> You're exactly right, Dan...until you introduce the edge of a piece of wood. Then it's up to the operator to keep the base contact point perpendicular to the edge/bit.
> 
> I was pointing out that it's harder to do with a round base when using an edge guide and don't have a good edge on the piece to ride a bearing on...


See, now plain English works just fine - doesn't it?


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Nickp said:


> I would give a round base negative marks...if the router is to be used to follow a straight edge or template.
> 
> The part of the base that rides on the edge/template must be kept absolutely perpendicular to the bit or gouging will occur. Whether the base contact point leads or lags the bit even a little it will decrease the distance to the bit...gouging...
> 
> ...


The Makita RT0701CX3 Kit includes an offset base which does address this issue. The mass of the router motor can be entirely supported by the workpiece.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

If the flat side of a router base presses against the edge of the workpiece, then the bit is far away from the workpiece or am I missing something. Has anyone got a flat sided router to show us a demonstration?
When I routed the lines on this clock, then the router had to be perpendicular to the edge.


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## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

Thanks to all for all the new information. 

I have not had a chance to buy, waiting on some hands on feedback.

I don't want to rush a purchase for a tool I plan on having for a long time.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*I Blame You Guys!*



DaninVan said:


> Re the better support offered by a square baseplate; I agree completely. That little Ryobi (yeh the one that's giving me problems lately) trim router has a square base and it's waaaay easier to use on something like a box edge, with the router riding on the narrow dimension. The fact that it's very light and I can hold it easily with one hand is a big bonus.



Not saying it's your fault, just that I'm blaming you.

I ordered a var. spd. Bosch Colt today. Somebody _else_ can play around with the old Ryobi...
Best price I could find:
*https://www.kmstools.com/bosch-colt-electronic-variable-speed-palm-router-133818*
$158 Taxes and shipping included. I think that'd be around $120US all in.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*Blame all you want!!!*

you got ripped off...

*https://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-reconditioned-bosch-pr20evsk-rt-1-hp-colt-variable-speed-electronic-palm-router-kit/bshrpr20evsk-rt,default,pd.html*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No CPO in Canada, Stick. They don't want our money...

Haven't we had this conversation before?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

And probably will again...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

What did you finally decide to get? Looking forward to hearing your take on the tool you selected.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bosch, Tom. Once the Ryobi laminate trimmer is gone I'll be left with a Bosch 1619EVS plunge, a Bosch 1617EVSPK, this new *https://www.kmstools.com/bosch-colt-electronic-variable-speed-palm-router-133818*

Bosch Colt (var spd. 1 HP), and my old Craftsman (1/4" -- 3/4 hp?)


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## dexcraft (Nov 4, 2019)

The compact router is best, it is a great option for the DIY hobbyist. Two things consider before buying a compact router: range and ability to use speed


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That sounds like the other kind of router not our type!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

My new Bosch Colt arrived today! Whohoo!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

I also have the Makita and wondered where their heads where when they created this thing, without a freakin light! (I have a rant on that, from some time back...) It's too dark to make any signs without having some sort of light, which I purchased a clip-on style light that's a LED but if I forget to turn it off right afterwards, will go dead quick. 

The bosch, while I really wanted it, was a P.I.T.A to try and change bits. It went back to the store the next day. You have to tear it apart to get to the spindle lock to remove the bit from the plunge. (Anyone who remembers me from when I first started, I vowed I didn't need a plunge, and had to retract that statement some time later, when I felt comfortable enough with routers to start using them *giggle* *shrug* ) Who wants to have to tear apart the router to get to the bit? (I had to take the motor out of the plunge, hold in the lock, then change.) When I'm making signs, I don't want to have to tear the thing apart. I've used as many as three(3) bits on one sign. What a pain!

My go to has been my DeWalt 611. While I worked the plunge a little too hard and had to take it in because the lock on the plunge wore out, I have to say it's really been good to me as a whole. I'm planning on getting a third palm router, so I can have two (2) sign bits, and my edging bits at my disposal. Yup. I'm impatient, and I don't want to take the time to change bits. I want to grab the router and go. I lose momentum when I have to stop and change bits. (I'm also an only child, and spoiled. But that's what makes me so adorable... :wink: )

So that's my two - err 25 cents worth on the routers. I started routing in 2011, and make all my signs free hand from patterns I make on my computer, and transfer to wood.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Barb,
Theo has the same approach - he has about five routers, each dedicated to a particular bit. I imagine he only takes out the bits when blunt.

I am less extreme, but I have three in tables and four handheld. I like doing all the setup for a project beforehand. It is not so much the bit changes that get me, as the micrometric fiddling with bit height and fence depth.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@ Biagio I'll still have to change bits, I do now. The 3rd one is I'm looking at now is going to be for the round over that currently sits in my full-size router that is too bulky to use on my signs most times these days. It will be lighter, and more maneuverable. With it being for the edges, I'm considering getting a cordless, because it never fails; that blasted cord likes to get in my way. This would eliminate it. There's this one group that's on You Tube Ken likes that does (in his opinion) really good, thorough reviews on tools now and again, and Ken is thinking the newest DeWalt for what I want it for; for two (2) reasons; one, I know DeWalt, and two (2) I'll have backup batteries, because that's what his latest cordless tools are.


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## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

DesertRatTom said:


> What did you finally decide to get? Looking forward to hearing your take on the tool you selected.


I am going to wait a couple weeks to peruse the Black Friday deals and then order. Right now I am thinking of ordering both the Bosch GKF125CEN Colt 1.25 HP AND the Makita Kit (RT0701CX3). The Bosch can be had for $85 - $90 (new) which seems like a really good deal. The Makita offers more base options. At the price of the Bosch I can try both and sell one (or keep both) and not be out any real amount of money.

I have seen a lot of comments here from owners of full size routers that they use their compact routers more than they thought they would. I would imagine the same for me.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

In my research for projects, I came up with some things that a compact router would make a whole lot easier. I was thinking Dremel, but thinking that would only be good for one thing for me, not more. Not sure if a trim router would work for everything, yet, but think it could do what the Dremel could also. Never used a trim router; so thinking I will get one of the el cheapo trim routers, around $24 or $25, and see if it will do what I want. If it does, then when it dies I will upgrade. And, if it won't, I won't be out much.


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## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

For those interested, there is a new review of the Bosch Kit at protoolreviews. A lot of review sites simply parrot manufacturing advertising or extract from Amazon reviews. I have seen some pretty good reviews at protoolreviews that call out tools for shortcomings. That being said, there is nothing earth shattering in the review beyond the fact that they were happy with the router kit.

*https://www.protoolreviews.com/tools/power/corded/routers/bosch-colt-palm-router-combination-kit-review-gkf125cepk/*


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Wow, the osch GKF125CEPK is a really nice trim router. Newer model of the previous Colt, but a bit more power, lights, variable speed dial, kit with plunge base and edge guide. I like it and would choose it over the Makita kit. Bosch was a little late into this market, but it sure looks like they listended to customers.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bosch CS/TS beats out Marita's by a wide margin and then some...
VOE..


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## Hover (Nov 13, 2019)

The placement of the switch?


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## RTR (Mar 20, 2019)

I didn't know what CS/TS meant! (Still don't actually... if CS means Customer Service, what does TS mean?)


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## RTR (Mar 20, 2019)

DaninVan said:


> 23' of roundover per battery charge? That's got to be a typo(?). Once around a 4'x8' sheet of plywood, that's it. Sorry, not even remotely interested.


The battery isn't built in to the router. It is easily removed and replaced in an instant. Simply swap batteries.

It is 23' of roundover per amp hour, not per battery, so a 4 amp hour battery is nearly 100 feet.

Just how large is a kitchen sink?

A cordless trim router is perfect for fitting laminate counter tops, trimming the edges and sink cut out in the hustle and bustle of construction without the cumbersomeness of a cord. One battery on the charger, the other battery in the tool. Swap. Endless power.

I have 16 identical and interchangeable 6 amp hour batteries in a comprehensive cordless tool ensemble that includes a chainsaw, a 15" string trimmer, a 15" brush cutter, a 30" double sided blade hedge trimmer, power rotating broom, 473 cfm blower, 1/2" drill, 4 speed impact driver, 1,180 ft. lb. breakaway impact wrench, stapler, drywall saw, cutout tool, oscillating multitool, close quarters right angle driver, rear handle 7 1/4" circular saw, and yes, a trim router. 

As has been proven to me over and over again, in a variety of tough tasks I've put this cornucopia of tools through, battery power is simply not an issue. The more recent crop of lithium ion chemistry battery tools are very different animals than the 30 year old NiCd chemistry battery tools they replaced. If I had continued to hang on to my old memories of inadequately powered battery tools, I would have never had the chance to experience the true joy of using a power tool unencumbered by worries of accidentally cutting the cord, or not being able to start a two stroke engine.

It is nothing to swipe a battery off of another tool not in use. It is nothing to have a three battery rotation... one on the charger, one in the tool, and one already charged standing by. Power is simply not an issue with cordless any longer.

For anyone making signs, or doing a lot of directional changes in their routing processes, I would strongly encourage you to experience the freedom of cordless. It still makes me smile.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herbert; 100'? that's only 3 -8' 1x4s on all 4 edges. Not impressed...I'll stick to my corded routers thanks.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RTR said:


> I didn't know what CS/TS meant! (Still don't actually... if CS means Customer Service, what does TS mean?)


1... CS = Customer Service
2... TS = Technical Service


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

DesertRatTom said:


> If Harry likes the Makita, it's probably very good. I agree that hands on feel is probably in order. Switch location is the only thing I don't like about the 1617 but it's livable, and I like the knobs. I don't like the feel of the DeWalt raising and lowering mechanism. So the subjective is pretty much the deciding factor for me.


You really are kind Tom.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Stick486 said:


> Bosch CS/TS beats out Marita's by a wide margin and then some...
> VOE..


For what reasons Stick, you can't make a statement like that without giving reasons.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's not necessarily a universal truth either Harry. We've heard from UK members that Bosch CS is less than stellar in that country. I haven't heard how they compare in Oz. Mike from Detroit used to say the same thing about my Hitachis. That when I needed CS from Hitachi I'd regret not buying Bosch. I still have never needed to talk to Hitachi about any shortcomings any of my 3 Hitachis have (or technically haven't had). If that ever happens I'll be sure to post on my experience with them.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> For what reasons Stick, *you can't make a statement like that without giving reasons*.



That's a great line, Harry... I think I will jot it down for future reference.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

harrysin said:


> For what reasons Stick, you can't make a statement like that without giving reasons.


Harry..
*I own both brands..*.
I have dealt w/ their respective CS/TS and the repairs of... there are members here that have confirmed/verified to the outstanding CS/TS of Bosch, way more than once, validating my own many experiences...

Here's a *re-posting* of my reasons I have already said *MANY TIMES* in the past...

I was around when Makita, Hitachi and Ryobie were trying to get a foot hold in the US in the late 70's and early 80's... They all hit on the mom and pop tool vendors / repair stations 1st and promised them the world... Offered a real bed of roses.. Really went over board to make themselves look good... Serious PR... Great jobber pricing, good warranty program, low unit buying and so on... Superb returns... and yadda, yadda, yadda.... Well that didn't last... As soon as they got their foot in the door - change happened....

After they got a bit of a toe hold that began to change... Higher unit costs, larger count purchase unit minimums, restructured warranty pays and poor invoice turn around... As much as 180 days out and discounted when the check showed up with a warning letter with it in regards to charging interest on unpaid balances... When the shoe was on the other foot... D&C...

When they got into HD, Mr. How, Scotties, Lowes and Wickes the mom and pop outfits found themselves over the proverbial barrel and out in the cold... Retail at the BB stores was lower than the M&P quantity jobber pricing... That original bed of roses showed an awful lot of thorns in it...

When Makita opened their own repair stations things got worse for mom and dad... The M&P folks couldn't even get repair parts unless they went to the repair stations in person and bought them over the counter... Sometimes for a whopping 10% off... $32.50 for a VSCH switch at Makita was $7.50 from Milwaukee.... $7.35 from Bosch... All of which were the same exact switch made by Cutler Hammer down to the part number* PRINTED ON THE SWITCH*.....

I think these guys/manufacturers did this to force out the M&P's because they weren't "volume” and weren't going to spend a dime of their own money doing it... they may even have had an angle to make money doing this... Don't know for sure but it sure looked that way...

Then came the cuts in $$$ for warranty repairs the M&P shops did... Not to mention the extremely slow paying on due bills and the you had to pay up front to get what you needed from them...

Longer and longer lead times too...

Bean counters and numbers... Bottom line... It's *THEMSELVES* that matters to them and screw all others and us... The old time hard line Oriental view of the caste system and the flagrant display of their honor society mentality was very apparent here... Ya could taste it....

These guys weren't too customer friendly either... Screwed over more than a few... (vendors/customers).. Getting tool issues resolved was another class of "PITA" all in it's self... They left some really good people hanging, out in the cold, w/ reimbursement monies due, their tools not repaired under warranty - all making for embittered users...

So in short their integrity sucked and greed ruled... I don't give a damn what their PR lackeys say... They lied to us consumers... Cost us money, time and energies...

Makita refused to stand behind their newly introduced miter saw.. the impulse braking either failed all together after a few days of use or it ate up the motors in a month or two.. The tables were a real pain to align and keep aligned... I had one... I ended up throwing it away...

All through this Bosch, Milwaukee, Elu, Hilti and Matebo stood by their word... Didn't let any one down and were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to it's contractors (M&P"s) and customers... This group of companies said *"we are integrity"* and proved it over and again... They had a line of most excellent products, still do, and they stood by them... When I buy tools I look at who is getting my money and for what, together...

And not to mention … what will the tool do for ME… how long it will last and be trouble free at the same time… trouble costs money and causes down time…

*Choosing Woodworking Equipment,Tools & Machinery... 1st and most important, I look to the company... Evaluate their CS/TS and will they step up to the plate should there be issues... (their integrity)... see if they have a planned obsolesce program in force...*
what will the company and their product do for me... try to figure out if they will respect me in the morning... no sense in buying something that can't be fixed a few years later or you can't find repair parts for and get crap for support...

*Next the product...*

It has to be quality...
Readily available...
will it have a long productive life?
will it do more than I need it to?
is it a good value over it's life of service? (decades of use over a very short life)
will it protect my bottom line?
will it go the extra mile?
will it go obsolete or become disposable in short order?
tools and tooling that don't cut the mustard, die an early death, suffer down time, hurt production and the bottom line need to be left on the store shelf and avoided... w/ trying out/using most of the major brands and experiencing poor support/rapport from some to many and through the process of elimination I went w/ and favor Freud bits/tooling and Bosch routers...

*Opinion...*
Both, Bosch and Freud's CS/TS is next level outstanding... their products have proven to be a good value... this goes for Whiteside or Sommerfield(?) bits and their CS/TS also...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for that, Stick! I know you don't really like typing and that was an opus!!
Mirrored my experiences with Makita.

Curiously enough, I was looking online for a replacement collet for my 30+ yr. old Ryobi trim router yesterday (out of curiosity). No hay problemo! Found them in several locations...#5 - $6 ea.
Real skookum little beasties too. Pretty sure now that bit slippage isn't the issue.
Doesn't matter anyway; gave it to my machinist neighbor. He'll figure it out.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

daninvan said:


> thanks for that, stick! I know you don't really like typing and that was an opus!!
> Mirrored my experiences with makita.


yur welcome...
And it's nothing you haven't seen before...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I have a bad attitude... 

Doesn't matter whether it's a restaurant or tool mfg; they get one kick at the can. If they disappoint me they don't get another peek in my wallet. It's the only power I have over them. 

Makita lost all my business about 20+ years ago, and I was spending lots of money on tools.
Same for Milwaukee; my first recip saw was theirs... what a piece of crap. My next was a PC and it was excellent (it got stolen). My third was another PC and I'm still using it 20+ yrs. later.
I had a bad experience with a Stihl brushcutter. That might surprise some outdoor tool users. The engine was forever needing service; really bad carb. design at that time.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> 1... I have a bad attitude...
> 2... Doesn't matter whether it's a restaurant or tool mfg; they get one kick at the can. If they disappoint me they don't get another peek in my wallet.
> 3... It's the only power I have over them.
> 4... Makita lost all my business about 20+ years ago, and I was spending lots of money on tools.
> ...


1... welcome to the club...
2... Same here...
3... *YES...*
4... Same here again...
5... Hard to believe... I swear by them... Bosch has a very good one...
6... Gave mine away... It would get too hot to handle...
7... Stihl down here sets a lot of standards... CS/TS is awesome... 
8... It does... At least this one...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> That's a great line, Harry...I think I will jot it down for future reference.


yup...


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## LeftFinger (Mar 21, 2019)

I had issues with Makita tools in the past so switched over to Dewalt. I really like their compact routers . The 600 20v and the 611 corded use the same bases . As to battery charge -- Start with enough battery


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Stick486 said:


> Harry..
> *I own both brands..*.
> I have dealt w/ their respective CS/TS and the repairs of..
> there are members here that have confirmed/verified to the outstanding CS/TS of Bosch, way more than once, validating my own many experiences....
> ...


Well, where did all that come from? In view of the above, why do you usually give a one word remark like "crap" which doesn't help a newcomer to make a decision.

This is interesting: *https://www.protoolreviews.com/news/who-makes-the-best-tools/32628/*


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

harrysin said:


> well, where did all that come from?


Keyboard and VOE.... 

It's nothing that I haven't posted before...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well Stick I must stand in the naughty corner for missing all those old posts of yours. Perhaps from now on you will give reasons for derogatory posts so as not to confuse newcomers. Some good may come out of this thread after all.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

derogatory???


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Stick486 said:


> derogatory???


....

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Derogatory)
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
"Name slur" redirects here. For other uses of slur, see Slur (disambiguation).

A pejorative (also called a derogatory term,[1] a slur, a term of disparagement) is a word or grammatical form expressing a negative connotation or a low opinion of someone or something, showing a lack of respect for someone or something.[2] It is also used to express criticism, hostility, or disregard. Sometimes, a term is regarded as pejorative in some social or ethnic groups but not in others, or may be originally pejorative and eventually be adopted in a non-pejorative sense (or vice versa) in some or all contexts.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

And I'm a Chevy guy... c'mon guys. I happen to like Bosch but I can't and won't say they are the best. For me they work great but maybe not so for others. And a Ford will get me where I need to go as well. Clearly there are some brands/models that should be avoided but aside from that it's all a bias of sorts. I did like that Lincoln we rented in Florida but... that Dodge in Hawaii wasn't so bad I guess... just saying.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I just spent the last couple of hours doing a couple of hundred ft. Of roundovers with my new Bosch Colt. I love it! 

It's surprisingly quiet and barely got warm to the touch. It's a bit heavier to hold one handed than my old Ryobi, but I'm not complaining; really rugged little trim router.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Interesting 20 v DeWalt. :smile:


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## johnP110 (Nov 29, 2019)

*Best router*

D-link is the best router, I used the past 6 months but I hadn't faced any issue, and if you buy a Dual Band router for your home and small business its perfect for you. In D-link Router Signal Strength is very good it always has the full signal. D-link sends me a notification always on my Facebook page when the new update available if you want to update about the D-link router you just visit my Facebook page and hit the like button.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

John; yeh, but how is it with a dust collection system?


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

JOAT said:


> In my research for projects, I came up with some things that a compact router would make a whole lot easier. I was thinking Dremel, but thinking that would only be good for one thing for me, not more. Not sure if a trim router would work for everything, yet, but think it could do what the Dremel could also. Never used a trim router; so thinking I will get one of the el cheapo trim routers, around $24 or $25, and see if it will do what I want. If it does, then when it dies I will upgrade. And, if it won't, I won't be out much.


A poster on another forum (or maybe it was this one?) described how he had "several" trim routers permanently set up to do specific tasks - e.g. he had a pair set up to cut lock miter cuts on the ends of drawer components so when making drawers there was no time spent installing bits, setting them and making trial cuts - pick it up, turn on the switch and it was ready to go cutting either the mating rabbet and dado. I liked the idea so went ahead and picked up a couple of the little MLCS trim routers on sale and have been pretty happy with them so far although I just have the one set up to trim edge banding and the other to cut a 1/8" roundover. 

A couple of negatives though

- check the base lock, adjust it so that it locks securely and then check occasionally.
- the edge guide is junk. I made larger baseplates for mine and plan to make one specifically to use with an edge guide similar to that shown in the photo attached, just need to dig out that piece of acrylic I have lying around somewhere.
- the dust collection works surprisingly well, it just took a little searching to find an adapter to fit the outlet.

Just got on their web site and it looks as if the price has gone up a little from what I remember, now $70 when bundled with $20 worth of bits - and actually bits that most people would use too.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> A poster on another forum (or maybe it was this one?) described how he had "several" trim routers permanently set up to do specific tasks - e.g. he had a pair set up to cut lock *RABBET* cuts on the ends of drawer components so when making drawers there was no time spent installing bits, setting them and making trial cuts - pick it up, turn on the switch and it was ready to go cutting either the mating rabbet and dado. I liked the idea so went ahead and picked up a couple of the little MLCS trim routers on sale and have been pretty happy with them so far although I just have the one set up to trim edge banding and the other to cut a 1/8" roundover.
> 
> A couple of negatives though
> 
> ...


My apologies, what I should have typed, obviously, was lock rabbet.


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## m1xed0s (Jul 21, 2020)

Found this post when I am comparing Makita RT0701CX8 and Bosch GKF125CEPK combo kits. Kinda late to the game here, to me (a newbie) it seems like the key feature Bosch has over the Makita is the LED light... Makita does have more components in the kit...

So would the LED light be useful in real life OR it is more a gimmicky thing...?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mixed; you can always clip on a small LED flashlight if you feel you need one. Personally i need a LOT of light in my shop (or kitchen for that matter). As we age our need for task lighting increases.

Tom ('Desert Rat Tom') can likely give a great explanation for that; it's his field of expertise. \
Getting my cataracts done helped hugely.

I have the Bosch and i really like using it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

m1xed0s said:


> Found this post when I am comparing Makita RT0701CX8 and Bosch GKF125CEPK combo kits. Kinda late to the game here, to me (a newbie) it seems like the key feature Bosch has over the Makita is the LED light...Makita does have more components in the kit...
> 
> So would the LED light be useful in reallife OR it is more a gimmicky thing...?


Hello and welcome to the forums N/A...
We're happy you found us...

I have MRC23's w/ the lights...
very very helpful...

I have both, Makita and Bosch... I feel the Bosch is the superior tool and here in the US I've found the CS/TS from Bosch outstanding and Makita's leaving a lot to be desired...


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

sreilly said:


> Just a suggestion but if you can actually go somewhere that has these models on display I find it extremely helpful to see how the tool feels in my hands. The placement of the switch, the weight, many considerations. That said I bought my Bosch on reputation alone and my experience with the 1617EVPKS.


While I did I the same thing as you for the same reasons, the Makita seems to offer more for the money. Too late for me but not for the OP...


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## ABear (Sep 18, 2019)

OP here, I really liked a lot about the Makita kit, but in the end, I picked up the Bosch kit based upon Sticks comments (CS & TS), and all of my research. 

I really like the LED light on my Craftsman router and after using a router with a light to illuminate the work I can't imagine not having the feature, I am also not a young guy so the light seems essential.

The Bosch kit is running $190ish recently, The Makita closer to $237.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have a DW 611 which is a little bigger than the two mentioned. It has an LED built in and it does make jobs where you need to freehand rout much easier. Like Dan, I need way more light these days.


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## m1xed0s (Jul 21, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> Hello and welcome to the forums N/A...
> We're happy you found us...
> 
> I have MRC23's w/ the lights...
> ...


Thanks! Guess would order the bosch then...


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

m1xed0s said:


> So would the LED light be useful in reallife OR it is more a gimmicky thing...?


No gimmick. Trust me. I free hand route signs, and that light is a HUGE help! I was more than just a little "put out" (as any one of the guys on here will tell you) when I went to use my new Bosch (at the time) and it had no light. I sent a scathing email to Bosch asking how they can be so incredible in their routers, but leave out something so basic as a light on a trim router... I ended up buying a couple small clip-on lights for when I use it. Eric Rhoten (makeasign.com) has a setup on his 120 that I may try and mimick for mine.

This morning, I told Ken about the 125, and how they integrated lights. Guess what I asked for my birthday this year?? (That, and a cordless jig saw....). 

My cordless router is a DeWalt trim. I went with it for two reasons. One: I have the corded, and it's been very good to me. Other than my issue with the plunge, it's been great. And two: All of Ken's cordless tools are DeWalt. Makes sense to "keep it in the family" per say. When my battery needs charging, I have like six others on Kens' tool chest charged/getting charged to choose from. We're almost all cordless now. Ken is still buckin for the flashlight, but I nixed that one. We have like 40 flashlights around here: you name the type, chances are, we have it! Just got him the jig saw for Father's Day.

My 25 cents worth (with the so-called "coin shortage" going on, instead of giving my two cents (which is two coins) I'm givin 25 cents - it's only one coin)


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## m1xed0s (Jul 21, 2020)

Perfect!!! Light is probably going to be a huge help for newbie as well  Going to order the Bosch then...


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## Lois77 (Dec 18, 2020)

Has anyone used or even seen a review (i can't find any) on this COSTWAY Fixed&Plundge based router?









COSTWAY Trimmer Router with 1/4" and 3/8" Collets, Fixed & Plunge Base, 13000-33000r/min, Electric Palm Router Tool for Woodworking and Furniture Manufacturing : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


Shop COSTWAY Trimmer Router with 1/4" and 3/8" Collets, Fixed & Plunge Base, 13000-33000r/min, Electric Palm Router Tool for Woodworking and Furniture Manufacturing. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.



www.amazon.co.uk





Or can recommend me another cheap brand, i would be using it for personal DIY so there's no need for me to spend over £100?


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## Jørgen Zachariassen (May 28, 2020)

ABear said:


> I am looking to buy a compact router and I am undecided on which way to go, yes, paralysis analysis, I recognize this.
> 
> Based on my research I had pretty much decided on the Bosch GKF125CEPK Kit. I like the Bosch reputation, I like the LED, cord relief, finger placement, clear round base, and other upgrades. The review at; Comparing the Bosch Colt Router GKF125CE to the Older PR20EVS - Concord Carpenter was very helpful. I like the upgrades over the older Bosch PR20EVS model.
> 
> ...


Another option is the CMT10, little, versatile, I opted for this because of the big area visible down on the work space (see *550W professional trimmer | CMT Orange Tools*).


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

m1xed0s said:


> Perfect!!! Light is probably going to be a huge help for newbie as well  Going to order the Bosch then...


 The light is a huge help for anyone. I have an old black and decker router with a 1/4 shank and had been my favorite for routing around cabinets for the last 20 years. To sneak up on a pencil make required looking, stopping and finally finishing...

Because my routers are old I had no ideal they are now involving lights.


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## Hover (Nov 13, 2019)

Going to order the Bosch then...


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Lois77


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Lois77 said:


> Has anyone used or even seen a review (i can't find any) on this COSTWAY Fixed&Plundge based router?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you want cheap, look at ryobi. They ain't much but they work. Ebay may be your best bet.


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## DJeansonne (Mar 27, 2009)

Does anyone have comments about the Makita plunge base? I find the depth settings are not easy to use.


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Just saw this thread. I am also considering buying a Bosch or Makita laminate trimmer kit with plunge base for guitar building. I currently use the Porter Cable 690 ( workhorse for sure).

In my looking at these I found on the Makita’s kit they list the plunge base as lunge Base (195563-0). Looking that up I think this base has been discontinued. Not that it makes a difference. I guess you could just use it till it falls apart, but still I like something I can find parts for.

I’m still looking at the Bosch. What I’ve read so far is that there is a somewhat hidden part in the kit that you can use with the edge guide. In the Makita kit, at least two people have complained that the little adapter to use the edge guide is not in the kit. You have to buy another $27 part.

Now, for me, I have an older laminate trimmer from Makita, the 3700B. I’m trying to find out if the new base will fit the old trimmer. I guess I could buy the base and try it and if it doesn’t work I could buy the new trimmer separate. But, it would cost around $180 instead of $145, probably minus the little part.

If I go with the Bosch, it’s going to be a cool $220. More but it has a case anyway. That’s a plus.

I’m still undecided. I got by with the 690 but it is a bit big for the areas of use. For some guys that trim around the guitar body to “let in“ the binding they all seem to use a laminate trimmer with a cool looking jig. When I made my first one, I used a scribe around the guitar and a chisel. Took forever but I didn’t have a runaway bit either😜.
Tim C


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a Dewalt 611 on my cnc and one with a plunge base. The Dewalt is 1.25 hp. I have also had a Makita that is 1.25 hp. The Makita is a good router bit the bearings tend to wear out quickly. The Bosch Colt is only 1.0 hp. The Dewalt and Makita are solid routers. I have had several larger Bosch routers I was never impressed with.

Opinions vary.


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Yeah, right now, I’m kind of leaning to the Makita. I’m trying to find how the plunge base attaches to the router itself. Is it a clamp mechanism? If so, I could probably use the base with the older 3700B, although that is a plastic base, not aluminum.

im not fond of buying the kit with a discontinued plunge base either. It just may be worth my while to buy each separate.

Tim
Thanks for the info!


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

Look at the Dewalt 611 on Amazon. Plunge base is solid. The base plate that comes with router is half round and square on other side. For a fre bucks you can get a round base that accepts porter cable style template bushings.

The Dewalt and Makita have precision collets for 1/4 and 1/8 at elairecorp.com. The collets are reasonable and you can get metric sizes also.


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Nice! Thanks.
tim


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Still looking for the 611. It’s not on Amazon, but I saw the base supposedly fits the 611 and the 20volt perfect. If m not mistaken, it doesn’t come as a kit? I’ll keep searching.
T


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Here we go….








DeWalt DWP611PK Compact Router


Lightweight, compact router excels at common routing tasks like edge profiling, flush trimming, and even mortising with the included plunge base.




www.rockler.com




Tim
Thanks. Looks good


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day @Tim C , welcome to the forum.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Tim C


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Well Hello,
All the way down under! It’s nice to be able to share info all over the world! I have added comments above to a discussion some 8 months ago.

I guess you can see I’m thinking of embellishing my router arsenal. I use Porter Cable 690, both fixed base and plunge base. I traded tenon cutter for a 3 1/4 HP Porter Cable but haven’t used it yet. The last one I have is an older Makita 3700 B. Great little trimmer but no plunge base.

The same man that gave me the big router also gave me a wonderful router table that looks really usable.

However, my workshop here in Santa Barbara, California is out on my patio. Everything I’ve made has been done there in fact. A few tables, a mission style footstool and even a couple of bases for telescopes I built.

My last, but not least project was a classical guitar.















All these projects used the router in one way or another. But now, I think my endeavor is to get a compact router with plunge base for the jobs that fit its use. Mainly the lighter delicate cuts for clearing a rosette channel or binding channels on guitars. Or clearing a channel for a carbon fiber rod to stiffen the neck on these guitars.

That‘s enough for now. I think a basic picture of me is drawn for you. I would consider myself to be have average ability with routers. Basic stuff really. Going to be 73 this January and I think a nice little router would make a really nice way to celebrate.

Nice to make your acquaintance!!
Tim C


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Tim C said:


> ... Going to be 73 this January and I think a nice little router would make a really nice way to celebrate.
> 
> Nice to make your acquaintance!!
> Tim C


I hit 79 in a couple of weeks, and have been using my Bosch Colt a lot lately. Have 1617s, but the light weight and size makes me reach for the Bosch much more often. I think if I had it to do over again, I'd probably go for the Makita. I just think it's got more features, and it's a first line brand.


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> I hit 79 in a couple of weeks, and have been using my Bosch Colt a lot lately. Have 1617s, but the light weight and size makes me reach for the Bosch much more often. I think if I had it to do over again, I'd probably go for the Makita. I just think it's got more features, and it's a first line brand.


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Tom, yeah I ended up getting the Makita with 3 bases. Maybe a little overkill. I’ll open it tomorrow on B Day. But, the package was surprisingly heavy ( all the bases and attachments).But, here again I handled the Makita at Home Depot. It felt good in the hand. DeWalt felt heavy, which is not a bad thin, I just wanted something lighter. Again, they didn’t have the Colt. I bet that one would have just confused me all the more. I think I would have liked the Colt too. 1 HP does not put me off at all. Thanks for the feedback Tom!
Tim


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## Tim C (12 mo ago)

Just a little more on the subject:
One of the jobs I have in mind for the laminate trimmer with plunge base is to create a channel for a carbon fiber bar in the neck of a guitar. I know a really great luthier that uses a Dremel with a plunge base for that task. It works for him but, I think he’s going to burn that motor or bearings up, sooner than later. The Dremel works well cutting channels for the rosette design. These are sometimes very narrow concentric circles at only 1 to 1.4 mm deep.

The DeWalt I was told has a round side on one side of the plunge base and a straight on the other. That’s a nice feature. But, again, a little heavy for the delicate work.

Another job I’m looking to include next time around is cutting the “ binding channels”. Those are small strips of wood around the body of the guitar. It creates strength as well as decorative appeal. Also, I’m sure it serves well as a transition from the top and bottom plates to the sides. So, these are cut on the top and bottom plates as what they call purfling strips.
( purely decorative). Then, the channels are cut to the outside, following the contour of the guitar body. This is the job I’m mostly aiming at . I’ll need the forum’s help getting the jig for this right. I’ve seen some but they are cost prohibitive for doing one or a few guitars. I’ll post a couple of pictures of these when I get more time here. They are clever and good looking jigs.

For some of the light cutting, polishing or trimming jobs I use the handpiece I used in our dental lab. It’s a brushless tool , smaller than a Dremel, runs at 40,000 rpm every day for whenever you need it, completely silent. No runout with a new collet. Made by a company called Osada. (Japanese) If only I had discovered it back in the old days! Instead, we used the old, louder, bumpy running belt driven hand pieces. I’m actually old enough to remember dentists using these instead of the modern air turbines. Of course these air turbines are great and run at around 250,000 rpm but have no torque. You can hold onto the bur and push the pedal and nothing happens. But, don’t grab it if it’s running!

Anyway folks, that’s some of the info I used in my decision. Like I said at one point a few posts ago, if money were no object, just give me one of each! Done deal! Got it all covered…
😁😁
Tim


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