# Smoothing a surface



## Opa (Aug 11, 2007)

I have glued up an end grain maple chopping block for my kitchen. Now I need to surface it to get rid of the excess glue and remove any of the minor length variations that I find inevitable in a glue up project of this size. I need "how to" suggestions for this job. I do not have a belt sander or large drum sander available. I am contemplating setting up my dado head in my radial arm saw but would rather use the router to do so and hopefully get a smoother surface and have less sanding to do. Can anyone help me with jig suggestions or other hints?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Opa

I would clamp a board to the top and use the bit below to clean up the top.

Pattern/Flush Trim Bits
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...html/pages/bt_flush.html#pattern_flush_anchor

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I flattened a board here...
http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/5435-wall-shelf-w-sliding-dovetails.html

I think I'd start with a chisel slowly cutting the glue away... then start using other methods.

How big is it?


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## Opa (Aug 11, 2007)

It is 2 inches thick and 21 X 13 inches. I have been mulling it all over in my mind and I think I will make two rails of 2 X 2 angle iron fastened to a flat surface and then make a sliding bed to hold the router. The bed can slide lengthwise on the rails and the router will slide side to side in the bed. That way I can cover the entire surface and when I am done, I hope to have parallel surfaces just as though I had run it through a planer. I wanted a chopping block that wouldn't move around and would be able to stand up to a cleaver if I want to use one. I think this one will fit the bill. Opa


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Opa said:


> It is 2 inches thick and 21 X 13 inches. I have been mulling it all over in my mind and I think I will make two rails of 2 X 2 angle iron fastened to a flat surface and then make a sliding bed to hold the router. The bed can slide lengthwise on the rails and the router will slide side to side in the bed. That way I can cover the entire surface and when I am done, I hope to have parallel surfaces just as though I had run it through a planer. I wanted a chopping block that wouldn't move around and would be able to stand up to a cleaver if I want to use one. I think this one will fit the bill. Opa


That sounds like it should do it very nicely...

In my case, the board was just a little longer than yours, but also 13" wide... BUT, 3/4" thick instead of 2"... My jig, which is much like you're talking about, was much easier to slap together out of 1x2's. I routed a small (5-6") section at a time x 13"... moving it down toward the end.

You want the bow pointing upward so the outside edges hit the bench... setting bit length at the edge...

DO NOT TILT YOUR ROUTER FORWARD OR BACKWARD WHILE ROUTING!

If you do, it will cut an UNWANTED gouge in your top.

Good luck.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Opa, Glenmore makes bread boards and he pops them through the planer, but you obviously don't have one so have you considered a ski set-up which can be used to perform so many different things that only you're own imagination would be the limiting factor. If you ever have the time, browse through my gallery as I have shown many projects made using skis, also of course Template Tom who has been demonstrating this aspect of routing for many years and now our very own Bj3 has taken to the method with gusto.

Before anyone mentions the poor condition of the board shown, that is the reason it's in the shed, my wife won't have it back in the house until it's been through my planer!


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi OPA: If you erect two boards on either side of the chop block you could replace the sub base with a base made to span the distance from one board to the other, and be able to use the router with a bowl bottoming bit to level out the chop block. 
Woodnut65


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Woodnut65 said:


> Hi OPA: If you erect two boards on either side of the chop block you could replace the sub base with a base made to span the distance from one board to the other, and be able to use the router with a bowl bottoming bit to level out the chop block.
> Woodnut65


The jig I used does it just that way EXCEPT that it spans the shorter distance instead of the longest.

Harry's Skis may work just fine *IF* the *Table Top is nice and FLAT*... if it isn't, the top will be as wavy as the table top is.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe Lyddon said:


> That sounds like it should do it very nicely...
> 
> In my case, the board was just a little longer than yours, but also 13" wide... BUT, 3/4" thick instead of 2"... My jig, which is much like you're talking about, was much easier to slap together out of 1x2's. I routed a small (5-6") section at a time x 13"... moving it down toward the end.
> 
> ...


When using your jig to rout the flat surface what do you mean by not tilting the router? I observed your mishaps with your shelf brackets and you mentioned the same point. I am interested on how the router could be Tilted if it were running on your Jig.
Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Woodnut65 said:


> Hi OPA: If you erect two boards on either side of the chop block you could replace the sub base with a base made to span the distance from one board to the other, and be able to use the router with a bowl bottoming bit to level out the chop block.
> Woodnut65


Woodnut
I am sure you meant that 'The sub base would have to be greater than the distance from one board to the other to give the required support'
Tom


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

templatetom said:


> When using your jig to rout the flat surface what do you mean by not tilting the router? I observed your mishaps with your shelf brackets and you mentioned the same point. I am interested on how the router could be Tilted if it were running on your Jig.
> Tom


Tom,

Well, I have the pictures of the gouges that were cut as the result of Tilting the router North or South when I should have lifted straight up or just turned it off and wait for it to stop before removing it.

I was using a Straight bit that was flat across the end... tilting, as I said, allowed the edge to dig-in ever so slightly.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Opa said:


> It is 2 inches thick and 21 X 13 inches. I have been mulling it all over in my mind and I think I will make two rails of 2 X 2 angle iron fastened to a flat surface and then make a sliding bed to hold the router. The bed can slide lengthwise on the rails and the router will slide side to side in the bed. That way I can cover the entire surface and when I am done, I hope to have parallel surfaces just as though I had run it through a planer. I wanted a chopping block that wouldn't move around and would be able to stand up to a cleaver if I want to use one. I think this one will fit the bill. Opa


Opa
You are on the right track One of my first Ski set ups many years ago was just what you described though I did not use metal runners 
.

Do a search on RON FOX and you will see a site Router tips where his ski attachment is recorded similar to what you are doing. There are also other helpful tips
Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Opa
Here is the site
wealdentool
Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Tom,
> 
> Well, I have the pictures of the gouges that were cut as the result of Tilting the router North or South when I should have lifted straight up or just turned it off and wait for it to stop before removing it.
> 
> I was using a Straight bit that was flat across the end... tilting, as I said, allowed the edge to dig-in ever so slightly.


Joe
Not sure of what you mean North and South?
Was the router resting on the two battens in your pic?
Did the router slip off the two battens?
Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Here's a URL link or two...



http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Rons_Background.html
http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/routing_hints_and_tips.html

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/tips_5.html
http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/tips_3.html


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Thank you Bob for posting the site it seems I have no authority to submit a url as I was asked to remove it from my posting
Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You'er Welcome Tom
Your are stuck in the 10 post thing because they have you down as a new member..

I had the same error back 60 days or so all I did was change my pass word and I was back to the way it was b/4 the data base server error..

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templatetom said:


> Thank you Bob for posting the site it seems I have no authority to submit a url as I was asked to remove it from my posting
> Tom


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

templatetom said:


> Joe
> Not sure of what you mean North and South? * Like a Map*
> Was the router resting on the two battens in your pic? * Yes the 2 long ones going North/South*
> Did the router slip off the two battens? * NO*
> Tom


Tom,

When you are looking at a map, North is at the top, South is at the bottom, West is at the left, and East is at the right.

The router rested on the 2 long 1x2's that run North & South...

I Started with the router up North... moved the router West to East (Left to Right), East to West (Right to Left), then a little more South to do it all over again... then I'd just move it all around.

When done with a section, I goofed two times by tilting the router (Top going South, bottom going North) in the process of lifting the router... That's when it left gouges in the top. I used a straight bit.

The router should be lifted straight UP when done.

*EDIT:
IMHO, if I used a Fixed Base or Plunge router, it would NOT have made ANY difference to me!
/Edit*



Understand it now?

Note: Once you post 10 times, you will be able to include links & pictures.
... so, just get busy and post 3 more times...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"The router should be lifted straight UP when done."

*Joe, I really do hate to disagree with you once again, BUT, the operation you were performing requires a PLUNGE router,* which means at the end of the operation you simply release the lock and the cutter with-drawers instantly and safely into the body (of the router!) If in fact you were using a fixed base router, lifting it immediately after the operation would have a still rotating cutter protruding dangerously, and as you stated only yesterday, SAFETY is at the top of you're of priority list.
I'm just trying to protect you Joe, also you're future projects from mishaps. If I can be of further help Joe, don't hesitate to ask.


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## AlanWS (May 2, 2007)

If you have a router table with a very flat top sufficiently larger than your cutting board, you can flatten it with a setup that is upside down from that already described. Just use hot glue to attach straight scraps to each side of your block, aligning them as with winding sticks by sighting across both. When they are aligned, you can put the straight sticks on your router table, and the assembly will not rock as you slide it around with the block a bit above the table. You can clamp scraps to the table to restrict how far it slides, and then raise the router bit, turn it on, and slide the block back and forth to remove a little of the surface. Take off only a very small bit at a time, and when the entire surface has been trimmed, it will be flat.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Opa;
Try making a router sled.. Here's the one I made.. You can make them any length you want..
http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5391-router-sled.html#post51467


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> . . .Joe, I really do hate to disagree with you once again, BUT, the operation you were performing requires a PLUNGE router . . .


With all due respect --
*NO - it does NOT.*

I know this for a fact because I have done things similar to what Joe describes many times over - and have never owned a plunge router. And I know many others who have done so. And people were doing it long before plunge routers became popular.

You may personally prefer using a plunge router.
A plunge router may make it easier in some people's opinion.

*But it is in no way manner shape or form required.*

I'll be happy to send you a video of me and two or three other people doing this procedure with fixed base routers and a sample of the finished work if you like.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

AlanWS said:


> If you have a router table with a very flat top sufficiently larger than your cutting board, you can flatten it with a setup that is upside down from that already described. Just use hot glue to attach straight scraps to each side of your block, aligning them as with winding sticks by sighting across both. When they are aligned, you can put the straight sticks on your router table, and the assembly will not rock as you slide it around with the block a bit above the table. You can clamp scraps to the table to restrict how far it slides, and then raise the router bit, turn it on, and slide the block back and forth to remove a little of the surface. Take off only a very small bit at a time, and when the entire surface has been trimmed, it will be flat.


Hey, that's an interesting approach...

The thought never occurred to me... will have to think about it...

Thanks for the "out of the box" idea!! :sold:


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

AxlMyk said:


> Opa;
> Try making a router sled.. Here's the one I made.. You can make them any length you want..
> http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5391-router-sled.html#post51467



Nice jig / sled... I will have to think about that too!! :sold:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Cowboy, doing what Joe did, which would be inherently SAFER, plunge or fixed? Semantics my friend have no place in a ROUTER forum (required, safer, better,preferred et al)


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Cowboy, doing what Joe did, which would be inherently SAFER, plunge or fixed? Semantics my friend have no place in a ROUTER forum (required, safer, better,preferred et al)


Cop stops a guy for running a stop sign.
Guy says -- I slowed down - thats the same as stopping
Cop starts beating the guy with his baton ---
Cop says -- ok -- which would you rather me do -- slow down or stop.

Words have meaning - yes even when you discuss routers
and there is a *BIG* difference between REQUIRED and SAFER.

Yes- - a plunge router would be safer - no argument there.
It would be even safer NOT to go out in the shop at all -- but I am sure glad that's not required.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

For crying out loud man, this is a routing forum, no one expects members to check every word in a dictionary, that is except YOU. I left school in December 1949 at age 16 and whilst my education enabled me to have a very successful 50 year career repairing consumer electronics, it did not prepare me for having discussions on the English language. I and I expect most members of this forum would have similar education backgrounds but we all have an interest in woodwork in common, so instead of marking each post on a scale of 1 to 10 for English, teach us how to make projects YOU'RE way, photo-shoots and all.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

It seems that another post has taken a ugly turn. Half the posts turn into a battle of one guys method vs another guys method. It's getting to the ridiculous point in my opinion and it gets in the way of the truly good info being posted by both parties and you have to sift thru all this editorial to get to the meat of the thread. This isn't a good message for new members or visitors to see either. I often see the question asked... why are there not any more members vs visitors. This kind of thing may very well play into it. 

I do not subscribe to the my way is better than yours or yours way is wrong mine is right. Let the original poster decide that and leave the editorials for one of the other forums where people can't get along. 

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> With all due respect --
> *NO - it does NOT.*
> 
> I know this for a fact because I have done things similar to what Joe describes many times over - and have never owned a plunge router. And I know many others who have done so. And people were doing it long before plunge routers became popular.
> ...


Hi Druggie and* ALL...*

fyi (  ), I did use a plunge router... 
I adjusted the depth I needed...
I plunged & locked it at that depth...
I left it locked at that depth because I didn't want to take ANY chances for a slight mis-plunge to the proper depth, resulting in an UNEVEN smoothed top.
I felt by leaving it set... it could NOT move, which it didn't. 

That is the reason I did what I did...  :sold:

IMHO, I did what I felt I should do...

If anyone disagrees, *so be it... *

It appears that *some *think *THEIR* way is the best way and are bound and determined to *convert* the rest of us... 
*Well, it is! 

Their way is the Best Way for them... 
My Way is the Best Way for me...*   :sold:

Let's all stop the needless bickering CRAP shall we??

If there is an Alternate Way of doing anything, and you want people to know about it, mention it ONCE and DROP IT! We don't want to be Converted to YOUR way... *unless we want to!*

DO NOT SAY *YOUR WAY IS THE BEST WAY...*
CLEARLY DESCRIBE YOUR WAY AS AN* "ALTERNATE WAY" *AND LET OTHERS DETERMINE WHAT THEY WANT.

IMHO, "Photo-Shoots" are nice but *NOT MANDADTORY.*.. if a photo shoot is not present, let's not have a shoot out because of it. OK?   :sold:

*We do not need to argue about it...

DO WE?*

Thank you...


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> . . . so instead of marking each post on a scale of 1 to 10 for English, teach us how to make projects YOU'RE way, photo-shoots and all.


Again my comments have been misrepresented.
I have NEVER criticized ANYONE's English.

You said that a plunge router was required to do what Joe did -
I said it was not. And it isn't.

I am sorry if it offends or upsets you but 
No - required - and -safer- do not mean the same thing -
And I don't believe the majority of the folks here think they do.

As for why I dont try to teach anyone how to do things "my way" 
Frankly I don't HAVE a specific way. I use whatever method works for me at the time. And when I find a new way I like better - I use it.

When I have had project I thought were worth showing I posted them and explained how and why I did what I did. Some agreed with me - some didn't no problem with me either way.

I have never taken it on myself to critcize any one else's way of doing things or try to convince them to do it differently -- and I'm not going to -- here or anywhere else.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom
Note your Post Number, it's not being updated,,, it maybe a data base error or server error...
looks like It's stuck on 9

http://www.routerforums.com/52381-post9.html
http://www.routerforums.com/52383-post10.html
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templatetom said:


> It seems I am having my posting blocked Twice I have tried to submit a posting to Joe including his quote.
> Mark what am I doing wrong?


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