# Points of origin for routers?



## Jeremiah (Feb 25, 2009)

Are there any routers being manufactured in the United States currently? I guess the real question is, are there routers being made in non-third world countries at this time?

I can guess that almost everything is being made in southeast Asia and Mexico because of production costs. I thought I would ask to satisfy my curiosity though. 

Thanks for all the answers guys, I know little and ask lots at this point, but I hope to turn the tables on that at some point.

Jeremy


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

With all the companies looking for labor savings they shipped their assembly jobs overseas. What a great idea! Now we can buy the tools for less money and more profit to the companies! Oops, all those lost jobs and nobody has the money to buy their tools... maybe it wasn't such a great idea after all.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Jeremy and welcome to the forum. Great place t make friends and all the while learn.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

To qoute Ross Perot regarding NAFTA, "Do you hear that sucking sound, that's the sound of jobs leaving the USA?"


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*is Spain a third world country?*



Jeremiah said:


> Are there any routers being manufactured in the United States currently? *I guess the real question is, are there routers being made in non-third world countries at this time?*
> 
> I can guess that almost everything is being made in southeast Asia and Mexico because of production costs. I thought I would ask to satisfy my curiosity though.
> 
> ...


Hi Jeremy,
is Spain a third world country?
I have two Freud routers that are made there.


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## Jeremiah (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes Spain is a country that as far as I know treats its people fairly and pays a decent wage, so I believe that is at least one yes. Fein used to make routers in Europe somewhere too right? How about Triton routers where are they made at?

I just kinda wanted to see if any companies were still going the extra mile to make a great product, while supporting people in the country in which they are based with decent jobs (rather than outsourcing to a 3rd world country).

Thanks for the responses , keep them coming.

Jeremy


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## thistlefly (Dec 2, 2008)

I believe that Milwaukee tools are still made in the USA, but I'm not certain.


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## Jeremiah (Feb 25, 2009)

I thought that they might still be, but in 1995 they were bought by the same global conglomerate that owns Ryobi. They apparently have a manufacturing facility just a little south of Beijing China now =(

Jeremy

PS. I checked out Freud and it looks like everything they make is made in Spain or Italy.


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## Barry the Builder (Dec 19, 2008)

Who owns what brand, and where they are made is often hard to know these days. I've heard several versions of who is owning Milwaukee/AEG, all of them a bit confusing. The one stated above may well be the correct one though. 

As of other makes, DeWalt routers seem to be made in Italy or Germany, Festool routers are only made in Germany, and I guess that will apply to Fein and Mafell routers as well.


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## Danoam (Feb 7, 2009)

I've seen Makita 1101 series routers labeled with both Made in USA and Japan. Mine says made in Japan. I have no problem with that. Most of my power tools are Bosch and Makita. Made in USA, Switzerland and Japan. The quality is great compared to what I've seen in Chinese made tools. I refuse to buy a Chinese made tool regardless of what company name is on it. I may be crazy but when I see made in China I cannot help but question the quality.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Danoam said:


> I've seen Makita 1101 series routers labeled with both Made in USA and Japan. Mine says made in Japan. I have no problem with that. Most of my power tools are Bosch and Makita. Made in USA, Switzerland and Japan. The quality is great compared to what I've seen in Chinese made tools. I refuse to buy a Chinese made tool regardless of what company name is on it. I may be crazy but when I see made in China I cannot help but question the quality.


I had a Chinese metal lathe for 25 years which was an excellent machine and still is. I also had a Russian Milling machine. If this is the quality of their space ships, I wouldn't go round the block in one!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Jeremiah (Feb 25, 2009)

For me its not only about the quality of the tool, its about playing by the same rules. Being made in China or in Thailand doesn't make the tool automatically poor (though some are). It makes it cheaper to produce because they don't have to follow the same rules and/or play by a fair set of international labor laws. I know that not every country has the same laws. I would however like to know that the workers as well as the consumers are being protected from unsafe and unfair practices.

If they were sending these jobs to a country that just makes a better product for some reason, then kudos to them I guess. They are sending these jobs to countries that allow them to exploit the people and poor labor laws. At the expense of the people that made most of their products great household names in the first place. If I think about it too much it makes me a little angry, and not at the people in those countries.

That being said, its mostly a tie breaker for me. All things being the same I would like to buy from a hold out company that hasn't chosen the low road to compete. I would always like quality if I can find it, wherever I can find it though. I think that most people feel the same way?

Jeremy


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I have 2 bench vises, an old 4 1/2" Wilton from father and a 8" I bought at Job Lot about 15 yrs ago. It was big and had a good sized anvil. All I remember is it was made in China and cost about $50.00. I was going to be doing some heat and hammer bending. Can't remember brand of vise, the sticker fell off the 1st time I had a torch near it. 

Anyway, clamp metal, heat and begin banging over to form shape, then release jaw and finish angle on anvil. Screw began sticking and grinding. Eventually after closing and cleaning the screw off as best I could, with some fussing I was able to back the jaw out. Either from the banging and or heat and banging pieces debris of the body must have popped off and sat in the threads then jambing .

I've heated and banged on the Wilton tons of times still works smooth.
Now I use the china vise just for anvil work, I can open and close the jaw but it's rough no amount of grease smooths it out. The rotation clamps don't hold well either.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

I got a shock today. Makita has a manufacturing plant in Whitby, near Toronto, Ontario. Go figure!

Allthunbs


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Jeremy,

Freud power tools are made in Spain.


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Jeremiah said:


> I thought that they might still be, but in 1995 they were bought by the same global conglomerate that owns Ryobi. They apparently have a manufacturing facility just a little south of Beijing China now =(
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> PS. I checked out Freud and it looks like everything they make is made in Spain or Italy.


Thats interesting about Freud and Spain. Spain has a pretty solid reputation for building some fine tools and really great guns...I mean very HIGH grade shotguns etc. But the more I check into the Freud tools of today they more I hear some serious complaining about quality control-I mean some guys are really PO'd about getting junk instead of what they THOUGHT they were buying.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well I think Freud may have contracted out certain parts and sometimes parts quality slips through or is not found to be short of quality standards until after they are used.

I am certain Freud did not set out to sell inferior products, just somewhere down the line some parts that were not up to snuff got through. I think it may be the parts themselves more than the overall design of the tools.

From what I have heard Freud is standing by the tools.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Birch said:


> Thats interesting about Freud and Spain. Spain has a pretty solid reputation for building some fine tools and really great guns...I mean very HIGH grade shotguns etc. But the more I check into the Freud tools of today they more I hear some serious complaining about quality control-I mean some guys are really PO'd about getting junk instead of what they THOUGHT they were buying.


Interesting. I spend a lot of time browsing the net for just such info and have had a totally different experience. Keep in mind that reviews at places like Amazon are un-moderated and can be made by anyone, including people who may have ulterior motives and may or may not have actually purchased one. One of my favorites was by a person who had seen one in a store on display which was missing parts and he thought he should warn people because he didn't think it was a good tool. So unless you know and trust the person who writes a review you should take it with a grain of salt. Certainly there will be complaints about Freud tools as I am sure there are about competitors' products but typically the one's who yell loudest are just looking for attention, in my experience. Most Freud tools have satisfaction guarantees and 5 year warranties so it puzzles me why anyone would gripe about a tool when they have recourse to easily remedy any issue they may have.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Charles M said:


> Interesting. I spend a lot of time browsing the net for just such info and have had a totally different experience. Keep in mind that reviews at places like Amazon are un-moderated and can be made by anyone, including people who may have ulterior motives and may or may not have actually purchased one. One of my favorites was by a person who had seen one in a store on display which was missing parts and he thought he should warn people because he didn't think it was a good tool. So unless you know and trust the person who writes a review you should take it with a grain of salt. Certainly there will be complaints about Freud tools as I am sure there are about competitors' products but typically the one's who yell loudest are just looking for attention, in my experience. Most Freud tools have satisfaction guarantees and 5 year warranties so it puzzles me why anyone would gripe about a tool when they have recourse to easily remedy any issue they may have.


Charles: I will not question your perspective. It is indeed valid. But, you must admit when people write into this forum asking for tips on how to mount their Freud router to their Freud table, one becomes suspicious of what is happening at Freud. 



bphillips said:


> Just purchased Freud RT 5000 Router table and a Freud 1700 VCE Router. Is there a mounting plate that fits this table and is pre drilled for the 1700? If not what is the best way to mount the 1700 in this table?


I have no axe to grind, nor ill will toward Freud, only observing what is said here. I would ask that the next time such a message is posted that you respond rather than leave us to figure it out and provide what ill council we are able. After all, you have access to designers and experts that none of us do.

Allthunbs


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

I must have missed that post if I didn't respond. I do try diligently to answer these questions as they arise. In response to that question I would have directed bphillips to check the users manuals that came with the table because they indicate how to mount Freud routers to the plate. But anyway, I don't see his question as indicative of Feud's quality slipping or of someone who is PO'd about getting something other than what they thought they were buying. I don't mean to pick on you about this, just responding to the observations.


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## Jeremiah (Feb 25, 2009)

So Freud power tools are Spain and the other stuff is Italy or everything is from Spain? 

Jeremy


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## dan_house (Feb 18, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> when people write into this forum asking for tips on how to mount their Freud router to their Freud table, one becomes suspicious of what is happening at Freud.


Thumbs,

One could read into your response that you are down on Freud. Could be, dont know.

I can also tell you , that as a network administrator, a lot of otherwise smart people can not follow simple directions.

I would suggest that they dont understand the directions becuase they arent "technically inclined" , or the directions are not all that great. Documentation, to a lot of companies is an after-thought.

Ive bought some great products over the years, that if I had to depend on the instructions, I would stillbe trying to get it out of the box. My faovirte though, is a modem I installed.... "If you are having problems with this modem, please check our website."


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Jeremiah said:


> So Freud power tools are Spain and the other stuff is Italy or everything is from Spain?
> 
> Jeremy


Power tools are from Spain and cutting tools come from Italy and Austria.


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> To qoute Ross Perot regarding NAFTA, "Do you hear that sucking sound, that's the sound of jobs leaving the USA?"


I think NAFTA is North American Free Trade Agreement, US, Canada & Mexico. Though, I don't think any NAFTA members make routers either but not 100% sure.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

dan_house said:


> One could read into your response that you are down on Freud. Could be, dont know.
> 
> I can also tell you , that as a network administrator, a lot of otherwise smart people can not follow simple directions.


Hi Dan: nope, not down on Freud but I've seen several such issues go through the forum and think it rather curious that several people seem to have the same kind of problems.

Manuals! :'(

I once heard a report on a radio station in PEI (Prince Edward Island, Canada) that in essence said "if you're happy with a product, you'll tell your best friend. If you're not happy with a product, you'll tell your 9 closest friends."

CNA, CNE, ECNE, MCNE, Wizard

Allthunbs


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## dan_house (Feb 18, 2009)

MCNE !

yea, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about

Working towards my CISSP......


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Business was relocating overseas prior to NAFTA, but the restrictions were higher. NAFTA made relocating much easier and more profitable to dump labor unions and regulations that protect the product and worker.

The subject is always rearing its ugly head, anyone remember Alvin Toffler? Future Shock? Third Wave?

The US is working its way to creating a janitorial service bar none in the world.
The "Information Age" is wonderful only as long as one has the means to use it. The USA became a major force in the world due to the industrial acumen and labor force.


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## JayL517 (Feb 16, 2009)

How about the Bosch 1617EVS routers, where are these manufactured?

tks


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## FatFreddysCat (Apr 5, 2009)

Jeremiah said:


> Yes Spain is a country that as far as I know treats its people fairly and pays a decent wage, so I believe that is at least one yes.


The firm in Spain which makes the Freud routers is called Casals. Their version is called the FT2000. They manufacture a lot of routers for other people, including Virutex and in the past both AEG and Atas-Copco. Oddly, though, Virutex manufacture some of their own stuff as well. Also in Spain



Jeremiah said:


> Fein used to make routers in Europe somewhere too right?


Right. Fein are a German company, but the 1/2in plunge router was only ever available through Fein in the USA and was actually made in Italy by Felisatti. Felisatti make 1/2in plunge routers for Metabo, they also used to make the Fein 1/2in plunge router, Holz-Her 1/2in plunge router and the Trend T9 - all variations on the Felisatti R346 model.

FWIW deWalt still manufacture their full line of routers in Italy for distribution in Europe. They also make or have made routers for both Trend (T10 and T11) and CMT. We don't see the Mexican stuff here all that much although I do have a deWalt DC616 cordless nailer which came in from Mexico.

Other European manufacturers you may be aware of include Festool (Germany), Mafell (Germany - their smaller LO50e plunge router is actually made by Festool), Bosch (Germany) and Metabo (Germany - although they only make the Of.1229 Signal model themselves as far as I know)

If you don't class Japan as third world, then you should add Hitachi and Makita to your list. Our routers from both of those firms here in the UK are sourced from Japan, although they do make drill and cordless tools here, in Telford


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## Bdog (Mar 6, 2009)

My Milwaukee 2.25 hp router-Plunge base China, motor assembly says assembled in USA, fixed base USA. Milwaukee jig saw-Czech Republic, Makita cordless drill-assembled in USA. Craftsman miter saw-Taiwan. I think it would be impossible to track down where all components for these tools are made today.


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

JayL517 said:


> How about the Bosch 1617EVS routers, where are these manufactured?
> 
> tks


Mine says, "assembled in USA, Mount Prospect IL". Of course, my Ford F-250 is made in the USA but all the wiring assemblies are from Mexico. :fie:


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have plenty of Swiss made Elu tools that have never let me down and are a joy to use. At school, we have bought imported Chinese tools. The finish is poor and they do not last. The plastic switch on a biscuit jointer lasted 10 minutes, before failing. I replaced it with a biscuit jointer from an Aldi store, made in Germany. I have bought a few Aldi power tools over the last few years. Inexpensive and still working. I still compare everything to my old Elu tools. They were well built, and cost a fortune compared to what you can buy today.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

So were Freud Routers always made in Spain or is this somehthing new? Just wondering if this will have any effect on quality or not. 

Some eurpoean countries have a poor quality issue when it comes to elcetric tools, appliances, systems. I dont know why. If youve ever owned an Italian car or electric appliance you'll know what I mean.


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## Barry the Builder (Dec 19, 2008)

Joesf said:


> Some eurpoean countries have a poor quality issue when it comes to elcetric tools, appliances, systems. I dont know why. If youve ever owned an Italian car or electric appliance you'll know what I mean.


My experience with Italian electric tools and machines is quite different from that. I own a DeWalt 626 router (an Elu design by the way) which is made in Italy and it runs perfect. Then I have used some ACM Italian made bandsaws (they also produce bandsaws for a lot of other makes, for example Austrian Felder) and MiniMax combination planer/thicknesser or jointer/planer. They have also been of a more than acceptable quailty to say the least. 

Still, at least Switzerland and Germany make even better electric tools, but that is another question I guess.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

I am happy to hear it. (My family comes from Italy.) I suppose it all depends on Quality Control at the factory, which depends on the manufacturer.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Joesf said:


> So were Freud Routers always made in Spain or is this somehthing new? Just wondering if this will have any effect on quality or not.


As far as I know when Freud started out they were a division of the tooling and saw blade firm which simply bought-in and rebadged. They still do it (at least to some extent); one laminate trimmer they have sold in the EU is an Italian job made by Felisatti whilst the dual dowel borer is actually Chinese (and is available from several sources)


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

I did buy the 3000vce from Woodcraft. Unfortunately it came in a Box with the parts shaking around loose, the base scratched and the interior cardboard torn as though it had been gone through. Woodcraft offered to send me a new one and pick up the old one. Scheduled a pickup, I waited all day, nobody showed. When I called them back they made excuses. Woodcraft doesn't even sell it anymore apparently. Why is that? So I couldn't get a replacement. So much for the $199 Freud Router they must be using monkeys to pack these things. Was it even really new? 
Yes I am dissapointed but I exected a new tool not recondtioned which the one I got appeared to be. If it was it should have said so. First problem I ever had with woodcraft.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Stick to yours guns, new is new, they have many,many stores, have them ship you one from one of the other stores or from the warehouse, Woodcraft will back it up 100 % but you must tell them what to do...just go up the food chain 


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Joesf said:


> I did buy the 3000vce from Woodcraft. Unfortunately it came in a Box with the parts shaking around loose, the base scratched and the interior cardboard torn as though it had been gone through. Woodcraft offered to send me a new one and pick up the old one. Scheduled a pickup, I waited all day, nobody showed. When I called them back they made excuses. Woodcraft doesn't even sell it anymore apparently. Why is that? So I couldn't get a replacement. So much for the $199 Freud Router they must be using monkeys to pack these things. Was it even really new?
> Yes I am dissapointed but I exected a new tool not recondtioned which the one I got appeared to be. If it was it should have said so. First problem I ever had with woodcraft.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks Bob, but they don't sell them anymore. I did call freud and they said ithey were new , if they were not they would be stamped as such and it was probably messed up somewhere along the line. 

So I will be looking for somethnig else I suppose. I have a craftsman 13/4 fixed base 20 year old currently 1/4 inch collet. Unfortuantely it has no provision to add a guide for some reason.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Joesf said:


> Thanks Bob, but they don't sell them anymore. I did call freud and they said ithey were new , if they were not they would be stamped as such and it was probably messed up somewhere along the line.
> 
> So I will be looking for somethnig else I suppose. I have a craftsman 13/4 fixed base 20 year old currently 1/4 inch collet. Unfortuantely it has no provision to add a guide for some reason.


That's fine, did you get a refund at least??:fie:

You could add a milescraft base plate to the Craftsman to get the guides. Haven't got the Amazon link handy but will post it later unless Bj beats me to it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

You may want to check out the router below it will take on the guides right out of the box .

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

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Joesf said:


> Thanks Bob, but they don't sell them anymore. I did call freud and they said ithey were new , if they were not they would be stamped as such and it was probably messed up somewhere along the line.
> 
> So I will be looking for somethnig else I suppose. I have a craftsman 13/4 fixed base 20 year old currently 1/4 inch collet. Unfortuantely it has no provision to add a guide for some reason.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Iskra and Perles routers are both made in Slovenia which is these days part of the EU.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

jschaben said:


> That's fine, did you get a refund at least??:fie:
> 
> You could add a milescraft base plate to the Craftsman to get the guides. Haven't got the Amazon link handy but will post it later unless Bj beats me to it.


Yes thank you I did get the refund. I just wasted a day sitting around that's all I lost. Woodcrafters left me puzzled on this one as they said the would get me another one right away, scheduled a pick up of the old and just dropped the ball. 


As far as the craftsman I have I would llike to mount an edge guide if possible. My router is a craftsman model 9-17487 one and one half HP 8.0 Amp.

The router is like new. It was my father inlaws, I think he made a couple of signs with it. Nothing more. It says it has 100 percent ball bearings permanently lubed for life on the box. Works nice.


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## ahhzie (Nov 10, 2010)

I looked through this thread (5 pages now) and didn't find an answer to your question about Triton. They are made in Australia.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

I think so the controls are on the right front side  LOL

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ahhzie said:


> I looked through this thread (5 pages now) and didn't find an answer to your question about Triton. They are made in Australia.


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