# Sears %#@&%*!!??&^%$



## jjbuzard (Jul 6, 2010)

Back with a question..... I am trying to make through (Flush) joints With the Sears Industrial Dove Tail Jig..

I am using the guide bushings that came with the jig.

The collar Sears says is .40 mikes out at .306 and the one they say is 1/2" mikes out at .427. I cannot make the PINS any where near big enough to fit the tails using the adjustments provided for in the jig. They are about an 1/8" narrow on each side of the pins.

Is this another Sears screw up?:angry:


----------



## Lago (Dec 18, 2009)

How long have you had it? Still have the receipt?

I got probably the same one - dove tail and box joint set. The screw holes in the templates were not threaded. I took it back to the store, met with the tool dept mgr and he ordered me another of templates.

If they still have the 'Satisfaction Guaranteed' at the entrance, tell him you are not satisified.

Lago


----------



## BowlBit (Nov 2, 2009)

I agree with Lago, I changed to a set of guides from MLCS and never looked at Sears again. I have found over the years that only part of their tools are any good any more. The only problem is its the hand tools and not the power tools.


----------



## jjbuzard (Jul 6, 2010)

The problem is the people at Parts Direct are NOT trained properly. I finally talked to a guy at Parts Direct in Tucson, AZ that explained the problem, there are 3 different part #'s for each item, one in owners manuals, one in store, and one in the parts department. When I tried to find the right bushings what I got was the run around, "doesn't exist, no longer available) was the answer, yet customer service said it was a good part #, so they switched me back to Parts Direct "doesn't exist" they said and so on til I got the guy in Tucson. All items ARE available, BUT you need to buy a router bushing set from Sears (9.64180 12 piece Combo Router Bushing Set about $29.00) OR Ridgid (at Home Depot for about $39.00) to get the .40 bushing, Rocklers bushing set does NOT contain the .40 bushing, the correct dovetail bit is available in the store (9.28619), either individual or the 3 piece box set (wooden box with box joint construction, don't remember part # or price) the trick is to get the proper prefix in front of the 5 didgit #.
Once I got the proper bushing and bit the jig performed like a champ, just finished 29 drawers with thru dove tail.
AGAIN the trick is to get the proper prefix in front of the last 5 digits in the part # can be .009 / 177 / 292/ etc, keep trying til you find some one at Parts Direct that knows what they are doing mine was Tom, ID 57438, in Tucson,AZ.


----------



## Metalhead781 (Jul 27, 2010)

You Gentleman have a LOT more patience then I do!!!


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*Dovetail Templates*

JJBuzard, I have the reverse problem. My PINS are too fat to fit into the slots. Any suggestions guys ????

Thank for any and all help.
Terry


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Terry

Try this ,,
the higher the bit the tighter the fit,the bit must be set just right, sounds like you need to adjust the bit just a little bit..

==========


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Terry2030 said:


> JJBuzard, I have the reverse problem. My PINS are too fat to fit into the slots. Any suggestions guys ????
> 
> Thank for any and all help.
> Terry


I assume you are also talking about through dovetails, Terry? I don't have the Sears jig, but on the PC jig there is an adjustment on the template that allows it to be moved forward or back in relation to the face of the pin board. Doing so adjusts the section of the angled fingers of the template the guide bushing rides against, thus changing the dimensions of the pin. 

The depth of the bit should be equal to, or a smidgen greater than the thickness of the stock, of course. (Greater than means trimming the pins flush after glue-up.)


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*I'll give it a try*

Hi Guys,
Sorry I left out some details. I will try to bring it up to date. My Dovetail jig is a Sears. I am trying to do some testing so I can make some drawers for my shop. I will make the real thing when I get this figured out. With your help, of course. I am using 3/4" scrap lumber. The instructions say the bit should be set at 1/2" below the sub plate. 

Yes Ralph there is an adjustment on the template that moves it back or forward. I guess I should move it forward a click or two ?

OK Bobj3, I will play with the bit height a little bit.

I'll report back after I try these suggestions. Now I will go make some sawdust.

Thanks,
Terry :dance3:


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Terry

Once you get feed up with the Craftsman jig pickup the jig below and put your Craftsman jig on the back burner, you will be glad you did.. 

The General Tools & Instruments Newsroom | The EZ Pro Dovetail Jig Instructional Videos

http://www.amazon.com/General-Tools...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1295970788&sr=1-1
========


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*New Jig*

Hey, that's pretty nice.:yes4:


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Terry2030 said:


> Hi Guys,
> Sorry I left out some details. I will try to bring it up to date. My Dovetail jig is a Sears. I am trying to do some testing so I can make some drawers for my shop. I will make the real thing when I get this figured out. With your help, of course. I am using 3/4" scrap lumber. The instructions say the bit should be set at 1/2" below the sub plate.
> 
> Yes Ralph there is an adjustment on the template that moves it back or forward. I guess I should move it forward a click or two ?
> ...


If the bit is set to 1/2" deep, how are you going to fit 3/4" of wood into the resulting 1/2" deep cut? The instructions seem to be misleading here. 

You don't say which model Craftsman jig you are using, Terry, but if it is similar to the PC 4212, with angled template fingers for the pin cuts, yes, moving the template toward you ("forward") will make the pins larger/tighter. Moving it away from you ("back") will make the pins smaller/looser.

Note, too, on the PC 4212 jig, different guide bushings are used for tails and pins - 3/4" OD for use with the 7° DT bit for the tails, and 5/8" with the straight bit for the pins. You should verify which guide bushing(s) is/are appropriate for your Craftsman jig.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*Sears*

Ralph, that is a good question, "If the bit is set to 1/2" deep, how are you going to fit 3/4" of wood into the resulting 1/2" deep cut? The instructions seem to be misleading here". I am really feeling stupid. I need to get a 3/4" dovetail bit, if they make them. Or change my stock to 1/2".:sad: What a dummy.

Well you guys have really helped out a lot. I can't thank you enough.

Keep in touch,
Terry


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Terry2030 said:


> Ralph, that is a good question, "If the bit is set to 1/2" deep, how are you going to fit 3/4" of wood into the resulting 1/2" deep cut? The instructions seem to be misleading here". I am really feeling stupid. I need to get a 3/4" dovetail bit, if they make them. Or change my stock to 1/2".:sad: What a dummy.
> 
> Well you guys have really helped out a lot. I can't thank you enough.
> 
> ...


3/4" DT bit? No, you just need to make the cut as deep as the stock is thick. The width of the bit doesn't come into play in that respect. The 1/2" wide bit can be used on various thicknesses of stock, and is the "standard" width of bit used on many fixed-spacing DT jigs.


----------



## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

One good word about Sears they are one of the only major companiein the U.S. who pay the difference in salary and keep the insurance benefits to employees who are in the Reserve armed services when they are called to active duty when all that law requires is to hold there job so for this I do try and patronize them when possible, now one problem with this is almost all the tools (specially power) are made in China,Taiwan or elsewhere not in U.S.A. and the quality control is poor ... I have sold all but one of the power tools I had purchased there over the years......


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*sears*

Thanks PapaWD for that bit of advise.

Ralph, I can raise the 1/2" DT bit to 3/4" and the shaft of the bit is above the Sub Plate. Therefore it doesn't cut the stock. Does that make sense ? I kinda lost myself.

Terry


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Terry2030 said:


> Thanks PapaWD for that bit of advise.
> 
> Ralph, I can raise the 1/2" DT bit to 3/4" and the shaft of the bit is above the Sub Plate. Therefore it doesn't cut the stock. Does that make sense ? I kinda lost myself.
> 
> Terry


When the bit is in the router, extending through the base and the guide bushing, the depth of cut is determined by how far it extends below the bottom surface of the template on the jig. When cutting the tails, that distance needs to be equal to the thickness of the pin boards (which are usually the same thickness as the tail boards). 

One way of setting that depth is to put a board of that thickness under the template in the top/horizontal position (where the waste/backer board would go). Tighten everything down, and then set the bit depth to be the same as the bottom surface of that board.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*Well !!!!!*

See, I am learning something new every day.

Thanks Ralph,
I'm headed to the shop right now to try this out.

Terry:dance3:


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Stots.com - Videos

Plus some great tips ( see the number 4 video)
=========


----------



## walowan (Jan 21, 2011)

I have had a couple of dovetail jigs that I got fed up with and finally got the best dovetail available, the Leigh. I wouldn't trade it for any other and the instruction BOOK is awsome.


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

What is the proper bit angle for the C-man jig?


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

AxlMyk said:


> What is the proper bit angle for the C-man jig?


The angle on the DT bit is only critical for through dovetails, where the angle on the pins needs to match the angle on the tails. You should be able to measure it (the angle on the pins template) with a protractor. My guess would be that they copied the 7° angle of the PC jig, but maybe not.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

For the C-man jig ,the default is a 1/2" dovetail bit with a 14 deg.angle.

===========



AxlMyk said:


> What is the proper bit angle for the C-man jig?


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*Dovetail*

Well Guys,
It doesn't seem to be working.

Router model #315.175050
Dovetail Template model # 315.25790
and Dovetail Template model # 720.2570

Pins still too big.


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Again, I'd suggest you check the size of your guide bushings against the specs called for by the jig instructions.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*jigs*

OK I will check again. It says to make a 1/2" Dovetail use a 7/16" guide bushing. Is that what yours says also ?


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Terry2030 said:


> OK I will check again. It says to make a 1/2" Dovetail use a 7/16" guide bushing. Is that what yours says also ?


Hi - I'm far from an expert on dovetails so this is a shot in the dark. I've seen .400 bushings in, I think, the Ridgid set of guide bushings. Asking around, I was told it was for a Craftsman dovetail jig. 7/16" figures out at .4375. Don't know if this helps any or just confuses the issue.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*Dovetail ???*

Here is where I get lost. If I am using a Dovetail bit, any Dovetail bit, and using them same template, then how is it possible that the Pins won't fit in the Tails ??? They were both cut with the same Bit and the same template at the same time. If the Pins and the Tails are cut with the same Bit, and the settings not changed, then they should fit together. Maybe tight or loose but they should fit. The tops of the pins are so big that they won't even begin to fit into the Tails. How can the Tails be that big when cut with the same bit ?

I'm lost.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

I'm sorry my last sentence is incorrect. How can the PINS be that big ?


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Terry2030 said:


> Here is where I get lost. If I am using a Dovetail bit, any Dovetail bit, and using them same template, then how is it possible that the Pins won't fit in the Tails ??? They were both cut with the same Bit and the same template at the same time. If the Pins and the Tails are cut with the same Bit, and the settings not changed, then they should fit together. Maybe tight or loose but they should fit. The tops of the pins are so big that they won't even begin to fit into the Tails. How can the Tails be that big when cut with the same bit ?
> 
> I'm lost.


Again, no expert on dovetails but I would say the bushing is too small. Tails are gonna be cut with the bit so they can't get smaller than that. Seems like the bushing governs the size of the pins.


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Terry2030 said:


> OK I will check again. It says to make a 1/2" Dovetail use a 7/16" guide bushing. Is that what yours says also ?


On the PC 4212 jig I use for *through dovetails*, different guide bushings are used for tails and pins - 3/4" OD for use with the 7° DT bit for the tails, and 5/8" with the straight bit for the pins. The specs for your Craftsman jig may be different.

With half-blind dovetails, the same DT bit is used to cut both pieces at the same time.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*What Happened ????*

OK, I went to the shop and I checked or reset all of my setting. They were the same. I then set the Bit at 7/16 below the sub-plate. I cut the the dovetails and it worked. The tails are a little shallow but I can fix that with the Depth of Cut. The Pins fit into the tails. Don't ask me how or why because I have NO IDEA !!!!! I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I will just roll with it. If I ask I might go back into my fog again.

Thanks to all,
Terry:dance3:


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jim 

You may want to read this , Craftsman jigs don't use the normal dovetail bits.

"Dovetail Router Bits

the 1/2" one is a 15deg.type not the normal.  

2 flute, carbide tipped. 
Dovetail joints are mechanically strong as well as decorative. Perfect for making strong joints on drawers, boxes and furniture carcasses. 
Bits fit most popular jigs (see Leigh Jig equivalency chart below.) 
Makes sliding dovetails, half blind dovetails, French dovetails, etc. Item *#5396 and #5397* are designed to be used for *Sears dovetail jigs*.

MLCS dovetail, candlestand router bits

=======


----------



## jjbuzard (Jul 6, 2010)

Make sure you use Sears Craftsman bits, the CORRECT Craftsman bits as I stated above and listed the correct part numbers, if you do this jig will perfom well. I started this thread when I was disgusted with this jig and the bits and bushings supplied with my jig when I bought it new, it was supplied with the WRONG bits and bushings. When the proper items were purchased I made lots of drawers with NO PROBLEMS. Getting there was the Battle, use the info I posted above to make this jig excell. I liked it so much I purchased a second jig to use when making through dovetails so I wouldn't have to change set up, on ebay, brand new from someone who didn't know how to make it work. I bought a $200 + jig for $35. Don't make the mistake of selling this jig CHEAP because you didn't use my experience to make it work.


----------



## Terry2030 (Jan 22, 2011)

*sears*

OK Jim, I'll keep working on it. I'll double check my DT bits for size and Deg.


----------



## jjbuzard (Jul 6, 2010)

The 3 bit set is at this page or available at all larger SEARS stores

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more


The correct 9/16"it for/2" thru dove tails is at 

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more
&blockType=G2

or available at all larger SEARS stores

The bushing set that is EXCELLANT and better priced than a similar set at Home Depot is at

Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more
Using these items will make your life with this jig much easier.


----------



## Rayl (Nov 15, 2010)

*Thanks Guys*

After going through this thread several times, I have realized that the Craftsman DT jig, which I have had for years, is not the POS that everyone claims. I had just found the bits listed above on the MCLS website and was going to make that post but I was to late. Again thanks for the explanations offered and advice given. Ray


----------



## papa76302 (Jan 12, 2011)

You may have the same issue I had with the box joint template on a sears jig. Foe 1/4 inch box joints you actually use a 9/32 inch bit. Perhaps your bit is too small. How far off are your tails and holes? Mine was a 1/16 inch too wide on the pins and a 1/16 inch too narrow on the slot.


----------



## lekvermont (Jun 20, 2011)

Hi, I'm new here and have done a lot of searching to attempt to find information on the guide bushing for a Sears Industrial Dovetail Fixture(jig) my wife bought me several years ago. From what I have read it seems that the .400" guide bushing is difficult/impossible to find. JJ's post, below, suggests that the Craftsman 12 piece Combo bushing set contains a .400" guide bushing. From what I see on the sears parts list there is no .400" bushing. Is there one in the Ridgid set? Am I left to making my own bushing from a larger diameter thick wall bushing as has been suggested in another thread?

TIA for any info.

Larry

(9 to go)



jjbuzard said:


> The problem is the people at Parts Direct are NOT trained properly. I finally talked to a guy at Parts Direct in Tucson, AZ that explained the problem, there are 3 different part #'s for each item, one in owners manuals, one in store, and one in the parts department. When I tried to find the right bushings what I got was the run around, "doesn't exist, no longer available) was the answer, yet customer service said it was a good part #, so they switched me back to Parts Direct "doesn't exist" they said and so on til I got the guy in Tucson. All items ARE available, BUT you need to buy a router bushing set from Sears (9.64180 12 piece Combo Router Bushing Set about $29.00) OR Ridgid (at Home Depot for about $39.00) to get the .40 bushing, Rocklers bushing set does NOT contain the .40 bushing, the correct dovetail bit is available in the store (9.28619), either individual or the 3 piece box set (wooden box with box joint construction, don't remember part # or price) the trick is to get the proper prefix in front of the 5 didgit #.
> Once I got the proper bushing and bit the jig performed like a champ, just finished 29 drawers with thru dove tail.
> AGAIN the trick is to get the proper prefix in front of the last 5 digits in the part # can be .009 / 177 / 292/ etc, keep trying til you find some one at Parts Direct that knows what they are doing mine was Tom, ID 57438, in Tucson,AZ.


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

lekvermont said:


> Hi, I'm new here and have done a lot of searching to attempt to find information on the guide bushing for a Sears Industrial Dovetail Fixture(jig) my wife bought me several years ago. From what I have read it seems that the .400" guide bushing is difficult/impossible to find. JJ's post, below, suggests that the Craftsman 12 piece Combo bushing set contains a .400" guide bushing. From what I see on the sears parts list there is no .400" bushing. Is there one in the Ridgid set? Am I left to making my own bushing from a larger diameter thick wall bushing as has been suggested in another thread?
> 
> TIA for any info.
> 
> ...


Hi Larry - I believe I saw a .400 in the Ridgid set Home Depot stocks (at least my local one does). If you have a HD nearby you may want to drop by and eyeball it.
Not surprised Sears doesn't carry it.:fie:


----------



## lekvermont (Jun 20, 2011)

A short update, I purchased the three bit set from Sears but didn't get to HD to look for the .40" guide bushing. So I took a smaller bushing from the set I have and put 2 layers of that aluminium tape used to seal duct work to bring the size to .40". 

I was able to get satisfactory half blind DT's in some scrap. So since perfection is the enemy of good enough, I'll go with that until I can locate or make a bushing.

Larry


----------



## lekvermont (Jun 20, 2011)

I just downloaded the HD Ridgid PDF specs for the guide bushing kit and it does indeed state that there is a .40" bushing. Guess I'll have to make a trip to HD, ahhhh maybe buy online since it is better than a 60 mile round trip.

Larry


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Larry

You must have a bearing supply house in your town, just stop and pickup a bearing in the right size and a lock collar and forget trying to find the guide..

Shopping results for bearing ..250 ID x .400 OD

All Balls Individual Wheel Seal - ID x OD x W (32x47x6) 30-4711
$3.33 - Amazon.com
All Balls Individual Wheel Seal - ID x OD x W (25x35x7) 30-3512
$2.03 - Amazon.com
All Balls Individual Wheel Bearing - ID x OD x W 30x47x9 6906-2RS
$6.85 - powersport-superstore ...


Google


=======



lekvermont said:


> A short update, I purchased the three bit set from Sears but didn't get to HD to look for the .40" guide bushing. So I took a smaller bushing from the set I have and put 2 layers of that aluminium tape used to seal duct work to bring the size to .40".
> 
> I was able to get satisfactory half blind DT's in some scrap. So since perfection is the enemy of good enough, I'll go with that until I can locate or make a bushing.
> 
> Larry


----------



## CedarCityIke (Jun 15, 2011)

I see this post is a little late.But I too thought Sears tools were the Bomb.Now I do not buy Seears Wood tools at all.I have the dovetail jig w/templates and only had problems after problems.Now I prop the garage door open with it.I now use the Incra jig that blows the Sears garb away.I get accurate joints every time!If you save your money the Incra stuff is well worth it.Just a thought.Ike Adams


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day Ike

Welcome to the router forum. 

Thank you for joining us


----------

