# Table saw adjustment, any ideas?



## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Well I have made some adjustments already, but thought I would fine tune today. Wanted to make my table saw sled as accurate as possible.

Unfortunately the slot is not parallel to the blade, please see the photos. Also the blade is 90 on the left side and not on the right, so it seems the table is also not totally flat.

The saw is a Clarke ct10d, budget model really. I was hoping to be fairly accurate though.

Can anyone advise me of how to adjust blade to slot? 

Thanks


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

*Photo -2*

Quite a bit out


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Lee quite often there's bolts holding the assemble on underneith the table . You loosen them off and snug up one corner and tap the assembly underneith till you get it in spec. Once you tighten it may actually go out of spec again , so it's trial and error .

You are turning the blade and making sure your measuring off the same tooth of the blade I'm assuming ?


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Hi, yes measuring from the same tooth. I checked out a couple of guides for adjustment, il have a look and see if the top has securing bolts after the weekend, as I'm away for a few days. 

Thanks for the tip


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

For starters, Lee, pick one carbide tooth and mark it with a felt marker. That's the only reference point that you're going to use on the blade. The reasoning is that you don't really know how truly flat the blade body is...no need to introduce more variation into the equation. Just use that one tooth, and rotate the blade by hand. I noticed that you're gauging to the blade body, not a tooth...or at least it looks that way in the picture(?).
Nothing wrong with a caliper, but you can also just clamp a piece of stock to your mitre gauge, run it through the saw, turn the saw off and compare the 'fit' at both the front and back of the blade. obviously it should be the same. Just kisses at the front, same at the back. If not then go to the next step.

Do the same with your rip fence. slide a small piece of stock across to the fence (locked) and clamp the piece to your Mitre gauge. With the blade out of the way, slide the mire gauge down to the back end and check it there.
If the blade's parallel to the mitre slot then in theory the fence should also be. Having said that, the general consensus around here is that the back end of the rip fence should fall away from the blade by a couple thousandths of an inch at the back end so it it doesn't cause a bind when material gets past the blade.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry...our comments passed each other. 
I don't see any pictures(?).
Put them on your desktop, then drag them over into that dotted portion below the texting field. If it doesn't show up on _your_ screen then it isn't attached.
It says "Drag and Drop File Upload"


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Lee, using a dial indicator would be much more accurate. The way that you are using a caliper would be prone to error do to the unconstrained alignment of the caliper.


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

Buy, borrow or beg "Care and Repair of Shop Machines" by John White: a treasure of practical information for tuning up table saws, and several other woodworking power tools. He suggests using a dial indicator method similar to Ratbob's, but instead of testing against a blade, measure a point on a 10" x 2.5" plywood piece (with a hole sized to match the saw arbor). The longer radius, compared with the saw blade, shows any discrepancy more readily. I can't recommend the book highly enough.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Mounting a reference face to the arbor is a great idea John, but I wouldn't trust plywood. It has to be a dimensionally stable, flat surface, plywood warps too easily. Remember that we are measuring differences in thousandths of an inch. A misalignment of just 10 thousands across 6 inches translates to almost 1/8th of an inch along a 6' cut.


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## riblars (Jun 16, 2014)

Hey Jeff check you tube and find "the wood whisperer" video 55 How to setup & tune a table saw. good luck.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

riblars said:


> Hey Jeff check you tube and find "the wood whisperer" video 55 How to setup & tune a table saw. good luck.


Here's a link to that video 




Tom


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Ratbob said:


> Mounting a reference face to the arbor is a great idea John, but I wouldn't trust plywood. It has to be a dimensionally stable, flat surface, plywood warps too easily. Remember that we are measuring differences in thousandths of an inch. A misalignment of just 10 thousands across 6 inches translates to almost 1/8th of an inch along a 6' cut.


I use a 10 inch round plate that Craftsman sold long ago as an attachment for you to be able to use your table saw as a disc sander. It's the same process, mark a spot on the plate to use as a reference front and back. It's just a lot easier for my ancient eyes to see than trying to measure to the edge of a saw tooth.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

On smaller saws you adjust the mandrel as previously mentioned. Large stationary cabinet style table saws have a fixed mandrel so you loosen the bolts that hold the tale top on and move it until it's square with the blade. Judging by the design of your top I would say your saw falls into the first category.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> On smaller saws you adjust the mandrel as previously mentioned. Large stationary cabinet style table saws have a fixed mandrel so you loosen the bolts that hold the tale top on and move it until it's square with the blade. Judging by the design of your top I would say your saw falls into the first category.


Mandrel , that's the word I was looking for


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Lee, using a dial indicator would be much more accurate. The way that you are using a caliper would be prone to error do to the unconstrained alignment of the caliper.


A dial indicator is probably the most accurate way to do it, rotating the blade to take readings at the front and back. It's a little difficulat to get the tip of the indicator on the point of the carbide so I screw in a flat point which makes the job way easier. You can buy them in different styles/sizes for around $5 and they should fit the standard 4-48 thread on the indicator stem. I bought mine from Enco, has a 1/4" diameter point which makes it easy to pick up the "tip" of the carbide tooth. Buy SPI Flat Drop Indicator Contact Points from UseEnco

I'm getting ready to recheck my blade to slot alignment before setting up a new cross-cut sled, and will take a couple of photos if I remember.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> A dial indicator is probably the most accurate way to do it, rotating the blade to take readings at the front and back. It's a little difficulat to get the tip of the indicator on the point of the carbide so I screw in a flat point which makes the job way easier. You can buy them in different styles/sizes for around $5 and they should fit the standard 4-48 thread on the indicator stem. I bought mine from Enco, has a 1/4" diameter point which makes it easy to pick up the "tip" of the carbide tooth. Buy SPI Flat Drop Indicator Contact Points from UseEnco
> 
> I'm getting ready to recheck my blade to slot alignment before setting up a new cross-cut sled, and will take a couple of photos if I remember.
> 
> Tom


Tom I use a woodpecker dial indicator but I'm not understanding how the indicator you posted works exactly . Is it magnetic and sticks to the blade ? I just use the same area of the blade close to the outer perimeter . I know at the factory they have some special perfectly flat plate that they use for initial setup . Well that's what I read somewhere


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom I use a woodpecker dial indicator but I'm not understanding how the indicator you posted works exactly . Is it magnetic and sticks to the blade ? I just use the same area of the blade close to the outer perimeter . I know at the factory they have some special perfectly flat plate that they use for initial setup . Well that's what I read somewhere


Thanks for the Link Tom, wasn't aware of these.

Rick, Tom's link is for tips that screw into the end of the dial-gauge stem. The ones shown have a larger flat surface to make it easier to stay on one tooth of the blade, which can be pretty tough to do with the rounded tips that come with most gauges.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Thanks for the Link Tom, wasn't aware of these.
> 
> Rick, Tom's link is for tips that screw into the end of the dial-gauge stem. The ones shown have a larger flat surface to make it easier to stay on one tooth of the blade, which can be pretty tough to do with the rounded tips that come with most gauges.


Jeff,

One of the benefits of being an engineer working in a machine shop was learning about this like that.

That's exactly what I do. If you use a rip blade, the teeth have a very pronounced "point" on alternating sides - pick and mark a tooth with the point on the same side as the dial indicator and it becomes very easy to pick up that point on the flat tip of the dial indicator when the blade is rotated to the other side of the slot.

There are companies that sell either circular or flat strip plates to be used for indication, but the one that I remember was almost the cost of a top grade saw blade. I kick myself now for not getting one "made" while I was still working - the company had a Blanchard grinder and could hold flatness to probably less than .001 if I started with a blank that had been stress relieved. If you use a plate/strip, the rounded tip that coms with the indicator works fine.

Tom


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> Jeff,
> 
> One of the benefits of being an engineer working in a machine shop was learning about this like that.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom, I too are an inganeer, but all I know about are ones and zeros. Fortunately I had a good bit of machinist training in an earlier life working on Navy weapons systems.

As I stated before, using a good flat stable reference surface attached to the arbor is by far the best approach, but I'm too cheap to buy one. The way I workaround the gauge contact with the blade is to reference a spot just behind a tooth on the flat of the blade and use this same spot with the blade rotated forward and back. To me this is good enough.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, guys.

I am having the same problem with my chinese TS. All the tips sound great for me, so I will try them as soon as possible. I have a laser instrument for measurement of distances. I will find a way to use it for this purpose.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

You know... LOL. (Said before by another member...)

I have a miter bar I made for adjusting my TS'es, that I used to mount my dial indicators to... I haven't used them in a few years. 

I still tune my saws, and other's saws. I have a pice of oak that I clamp to my miter gauges and my cross-cut fences. At the end of that pice, on the blade side is a pilot drilled hole, that I screwed a brass wood screw into. I put a pen mark near the edge of the blade and take all measures from than mark. Using thsi may seem like a step backwards, but my experience , it saves me time with no loss in accuracy. Sometimes using "too" accurate a tool can cause you to chase down your zero in false readings.

I align the trunions using that gauge with the blade at 90 degrees and at 45 degrees. Look to my past posts on TS tuning for tips. I had also included some tips for less expensive saws... but I'll recap some of those. On less expensive saws, it it harder to get a zero. They don't have heavy trunions that can be adjusted. Fo instance the lower end Ryobis have bent steel strap, with a hole on each end as their trunions. I've mod'ed those with filing the holes into slots and shimming them. You almost have to cheat the lower end saws sometimes. But heck, that is part of why they were a deal right? They can be made accurate, they just don't keep a tune like a cabinet saw, so have to be adjusted more often.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Progress update:
Been out for the last 90 minutes attempting to adjust the table top. It has I'm afraid turned out to be a fruitless exercise 

The saw is secured to the table top with 6 screws, one of which rounded as I was attempting to remove it 
The body of the table is secured to the rectangular top via 8 additional screws, there is some small room for adjustment on these, however because the saw blade is secured directly to the table, moving the table top has zero effect whatsoever.

I have approx 1.8mm of runout over the 10" blade. I used my combination square in the mitre slots against the same tooth several times to be absolutely certain.

So now I am in a bit of a quandary, i am going to ring the technical team and see if they can offer any other advice or adjustment methods. If I get no joy I have a 12 month guarantee so I could take it back......


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Could you please post of picture from underneath?


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Hi again, sorry but had a hectic few days and only managed to get into the shed for a bit of organising tonight. I have taken some pics which I will try and post tomorrow


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Eazygeezer said:


> Progress update:
> Been out for the last 90 minutes attempting to adjust the table top. It has I'm afraid turned out to be a fruitless exercise
> 
> The saw is secured to the table top with 6 screws, one of which rounded as I was attempting to remove it
> ...


It's unfortunate that you never had an impact driver . I had to buy one because bike engines have these nasty screws that easily strip. Couldn't go without one now.
They may have used lock tight on your saw giving you grief , that's where impact drivers really help


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> A dial indicator is probably the most accurate way to do it, rotating the blade to take readings at the front and back. It's a little difficulat to get the tip of the indicator on the point of the carbide so I screw in a flat point which makes the job way easier. You can buy them in different styles/sizes for around $5 and they should fit the standard 4-48 thread on the indicator stem. I bought mine from Enco, has a 1/4" diameter point which makes it easy to pick up the "tip" of the carbide tooth. Buy SPI Flat Drop Indicator Contact Points from UseEnco
> 
> I'm getting ready to recheck my blade to slot alignment before setting up a new cross-cut sled, and will take a couple of photos if I remember.
> 
> Tom


Well, it took me a while to get around to it, but here are some photos of checking the alignment of the blade to the miter slot on a 20+ year old UniSaw. First photos show the flat point compared to the more usual spherical point. Next is a photo trying to show the point of the carbide tooth on the flat of the indicator. I checked the alignment and it was way out - I got readings between +.004 - + .008. It took about an hour, but I got the alignment to less than .0005". double checked it after I retightened the bolts under the saw table and it hadn't changed. I changed the point on the indicator to the spherical one and redid the measurements to show that they came out the same.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

suggest you do that to the blade body and not to the tooth...
more accurate readings...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> suggest you do that to the blade body and not to the tooth...
> more accurate readings...


I did both - on the point on the side of the tooth with the flat tip and on the blade with a rounded tip - I'll edit the post to clarify that the second set of measurements, with the rounded tip, were taken on the face of the blade (Apparently I can't edit the post now, sorry if I wasn't clear). No difference in the readings.

I'm sure I read somewhere that recommended using the tooth rather than the blade, I'll have to keep digging through the paper archives as it's apparently not been scanned on to my computer yet. I would agree that using the normal indicator tip would be difficult, if not impossible, to get good consistent reading - it just made sense to use the flat indicator tip. It is interesting that all the non-dial indicator methods - combination square in the miter slot and feeler gauge at the tooth and the screw head and block of wood clamped to the miter gauge - all use the tooth. I always use a rip tooth blade as it has a more distinct "point" on the side of the tooth and so easier to pick up with the flat on the indicator.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Tom I think you only have a half hour after you post to make changes. Any of the Mods have unlimited time time to make changes if it is something really important.

I've seen both methods recommended. Since the tooth is welded to the body, if you get get a different reading from one to the other I would think that you have a really serious problem that the blade is likely not a part of.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've only ever heard 'tooth'.
I'm assuming that's because the grinding/sharpening process addresses the teeth.
It's only the teeth that make the cut, so knowing their relative position seems logical(?).
Having a dedicated alignment plate however also makes a lot of sense.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

teeth can be all over the place...
tooth is more consistent...
the body is more consistent still...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Both sets of measurements were taken at the same tooth, rotating the blade back and forth for each measurement, it's not real clear in the photos, but you can see the "X" on the body next to the teeth - I was trying to get the DI reading in the photo and the "X" doesn't show up as well. 

Here's an article from Carbide Processors on the process of sharpening carbide saw teeth Index of Articles on Saw Blade Sharpening They have a chart showing the measurement that I was using, the side of the tooth, for each tooth around the circumference - most teeth are zero, variation seems to be .0005" +/- on the one side (.001" TIR) but they say that a .001" variation is very good and .002" variation is common. 

It's a very informative article, mostly explaining how a sharpening job can be botched. I have an Amana blade that I've used for many years that needs to be sharpened and I'm now nervous about it as the company that we used for years closed and I'll have to try somewhere new. Back then, we sent our blades to a couple different companies before settling on the one, and there were a couple of times early on where the blade actually cut worse after sharpening. I'm thinking it may be wise to take a "trial" blade down and have it sharpened before taking some of my good ones down.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Here are a couple of close-ups. The indicator still had the rounded tip, so I redid the photos on the body.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Tom--

Since you have dial indicator, did you first check the run out on the shoulder of your arbor shaft? (just asking)

I then check mine about a inch down from the edge on blades, at a marked spot. Note not to use pencil for the mark, as a pencil mark can and is enough to vary across the mark. Ink marker is more consistent for accuracy. I had bought a TS sanding disk plate, that is true... that I use just for alignments. 

Stick is right on teeth can be anywhere. Sharpening does not grind on the sides of teeth, just the face to the teeth. Carbide teeth are more consistent than HS. HS has teeth that have the teeth "set." (L/R)

Some ask how accurate is enough? It's just woodworking... right? I've always gone off of the idea that the more accurate your sero is on tooling, the more allowance you have for user error.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

MAFoElffen said:


> Tom--
> 
> Since you have dial indicator, did you first check the run out on the shoulder of your arbor shaft? (just asking)
> 
> ...


Mike,

I didn't check the arbor runout this time as I was fixated on the parallelism check but will do that when I get out there later today. 

The article on grinding teeth in Carbide Processors web site addresses side grinding of the teeth, and I remember the company that used to sharpen our blades (sadly now out of business) showing that being done when we toured their shop at the time. I pulled that blade out of the saw - the reason behind the parallelism check was getting ready to install a new sled - but it's easy enough to drop it back in and check tooth-to-tooth (only 24 teeth fortunately). A new blade, although an economy grade from Lowes that I bought for ripping fairly wet treated lumber for a turtle planter that I was making, so it has never been sharpened and this will be an indication of the initial quality.

As far as accuracy of the set-up, I agree with you. If you're going to take the time to check, you might as well get it as close as you can - within reason of course, no sense in chasing that elusive half thousandth. Before I retired my radial arm saw, I was always frustrated when squaring the blade up to the table - the adjustment is just a friction fit so tightening the (4) bolts always managed to move the blade slightly out of square. Eventually, it became second nature to adjust slightly past square, judging how much the assembly would rotate as the bolts were tightened and hope for the best.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

*Picture 1*

Nuts


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

*Pic 2*

Nuts again


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

*Pics*

Nuts 3


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

*Pics*

Nuts 4


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Mike,
> 
> I didn't check the arbor runout this time as I was fixated on the parallelism check but will do that when I get out there later today.
> 
> The article on grinding teeth in Carbide Processors web site addresses side grinding of the teeth, and I remember the company that used to sharpen our blades (sadly now out of business) showing that being done when we toured their shop at the time. I pulled that blade out of the saw - the reason behind the parallelism check was getting ready to install a new sled - but it's easy enough to drop it back in and check tooth-to-tooth (only 24 teeth fortunately). A new blade, although an economy grade from Lowes that I bought for ripping fairly wet treated lumber for a turtle planter that I was making, so it has never been sharpened and this will be an indication of the initial quality.


Before I took the blade off the saw, I took a couple of minutes to check the variation of tooth width around the saw. Starting at my original marked tooth, I measured the variation in height around the blade - I came up with a total variation of a little over .004", or about + and - .002" from the starting tooth. This would probably partly explain the poor results I got from ripping 1/2" wide strips from a 2x4. I may use this blade in evaluating the blade sharpening company that I'm considering and see if the blade cuts any better once it has been resharpened.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

MAFoElffen said:


> Tom--
> 
> Since you have dial indicator, did you first check the run out on the shoulder of your arbor shaft? (just asking)


I took a couple of minutes and checked the arbor runout, looks to be somewhere between .0005 and .001 so I'm good with that. Been a busy week what with one thing and another but I'm going to try to get up to the sharpener next week and check them out - maybe have them sharpen that cheapie blade to see how they do it before I risk one of my good blades. Another option would be to check with Carbide Processors as to their cost, as I've heard good things about their work.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Anyone any ideas on what adjustments I might be able to make via the photos I posted?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rotate the dial CCW for an easier read....
at .0008'' .. you can't be serious...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> rotate the dial CCW for an easier read....
> at .0008'' .. you can't be serious...


Sorry?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> I took a couple of minutes and checked the arbor runout, looks to be somewhere between .0005 and .001 so I'm good with that. Been a busy week what with one thing and another but I'm going to try to get up to the sharpener next week and check them out - maybe have them sharpen that cheapie blade to see how they do it before I risk one of my good blades. Another option would be to check with Carbide Processors as to their cost, as I've heard good things about their work.


Tom I thought you'd be checking it horizontally for run out . Meaning side to side? 
Mine came in at .00002


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom I thought you'd be checking it horizontally for run out . Meaning side to side?
> Mine came in at .00002


Maybe I'd better check it again. There's not a lot of flat there for the indicator, hence the long skinny tip, and the flange doesn't come off the Unisaw (at least not easily - Delta sells as an assembly so I'm thinking that it's shrunk on the arbor). So, back out and take off the blade again and put the indicator back together...........


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

*Table Saw Adjustment*

I can't tell from the pictures what type of saw it is but you might want to check out PALS (Precision Alignment System) from On-Line Industries. I bought a set for about $20. What they do is let you align the blade via set screws. I have a Sears contractor saw from the 70's. I installed the PALS and have been able to align it to .001. Good investment. I put a Delta (Beismeyer style) fence on it and the cut accuracy is almost glue line accurate.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Maybe I'd better check it again. There's not a lot of flat there for the indicator, hence the long skinny tip, and the flange doesn't come off the Unisaw (at least not easily - Delta sells as an assembly so I'm thinking that it's shrunk on the arbor). So, back out and take off the blade again and put the indicator back together...........


Rick,

Took a little time and cleaned the arbor surface with WD-40 and Scotchbrite and used a set-up that was probably a little more rigid. The needle flickers a little and it's hard to back up and pick the high spot when you're turning it by the V-belts, but I'm pretty sure I've got a good reading at maybe .0003", definitely a little less than .0005". The mirror really helped in getting a good view of the dial with the indicator pointing away, just couldn't get a good view the other way as it was closer than the focal length of my glasses. For a 25 year old saw that's had a bunch of mostly plywood and (in the old days) particle board run through it, I thought the .0008" wasn't too bad, I like this reading a whole lot better.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Have you tried loosening the bolts holding the table to the body. (My Craftsman saw has 4) and adjust the table to the saw before tightening the bolts again


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## marcs4095 (Apr 21, 2014)

*flat table?*

_Also the blade is 90 on the left side and not on the right, so it seems the table is also not totally flat._

IF the table is not truly flat, (place a straight edge across the table with the blade retracted) get rid of the saw and move on. Sorry.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

Check it like this and see what you get. Should be .002 or less.


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## RWhanlon (Aug 11, 2015)

Eazygeezer said:


> Well I have made some adjustments already, but thought I would fine tune today. Wanted to make my table saw sled as accurate as possible.
> 
> Unfortunately the slot is not parallel to the blade, please see the photos. Also the blade is 90 on the left side and not on the right, so it seems the table is also not totally flat.
> 
> ...


Did you ever think about reading the instuction manual? Paragraph 3 under "Maintenance" tells yo0u how to do it and which screws/fasteners are pertinent. Paragraph 4 details the steps in adjusting the 45 and 90 degree stops.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

There are 8 screws securing the table top to the body, but there is no movement because the saw is attached to the top. I was hoping to get even a small adjustment but I really am getting no joy. I've decided I'm gonna call the technical support team and see what they recommend.

Failing that I think I will have no option but to return it and hope to get a refund. I know it wasn't expensive in comparison to other saws but still, I would expect at least some semblance of blade and slot parallel adjustment 

What a waste!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Shadowrider said:


> Check it like this and see what you get. Should be .002 or less.


Scott this is how I assumed it was done . My paperwork stated .0002 and that is what I got also with my woodpecker dial gauge


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Shadowrider said:


> Check it like this and see what you get. Should be .002 or less.


I got .0015", never really had a problem with apparent "wobble" on a blade, but mainly use Amana, Freud and Delta. I've used economy blades on my miter saw when I'm cutting framing, then back to the Amana for trim.

I checked with the saw sharpener today, it's going to cost as much to have the blade sharpened as a test of their quality as I paid for the saw - probably a worth-while investment before I drop off a couple of Amana 60T blades.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

@ rwhanlon, the 45 and 90 stops are fine, it's the slot that's not parallel to the blade. The manual does not even cover adjustment to compensate for slot and blade not being parallel. I have read it upside down and back to front. If you saw something I didn't please feel free to enlighten me on how I can adjust the saw in this way 

From memory, the maintenance section, part 3 covers replacement of motor brushes and there is no section 4


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## testmeter (Feb 15, 2014)

The only way I got out of this fix (with a terrible 'Hobby' table saw made in China from Axminster Tools) was by filing some of the mounting holes into an oval to move the front end of the blade in one direction and the trailing edge of the blade in the other. An eigth of an inch was enough to get this done. You have to watch that the setting does not drift as you tighten up the mountings.

Regards

testmeter


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

If the miter gauge slot/slots are not milled parallel, there is no way you are going to adjust the top or the arbor so they are parallel.

If the saw is under warrantee, return it.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Ray Newman said:


> If the miter gauge slot/slots are not milled parallel, there is no way you are going to adjust the top or the arbor so they are parallel.
> 
> If the saw is under warrantee, return it.


Lee, go get a refund. I had a cheapo table and tried all the fixes. Lots of frustration and ended up with nothing better till I got shot of it and gut a proper TS, albeit a constructors saw.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

testmeter said:


> The only way I got out of this fix (with a terrible 'Hobby' table saw made in China from Axminster Tools) was by filing some of the mounting holes into an oval to move the front end of the blade in one direction and the trailing edge of the blade in the other. An eigth of an inch was enough to get this done. You have to watch that the setting does not drift as you tighten up the mountings.
> 
> Regards
> 
> testmeter


testmeter welcome to the forum . A first names always nice


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Scott this is how I assumed it was done . My paperwork stated .0002 and that is what I got also with my woodpecker dial gauge


You got .0002 on the flange? I'd be tickled pink with that! Somebody has probably lapped it in while in place in those bearings.

Now I'd expect the arbor shaft itself to be down in that range (preferably well under .0005), if it's not I'd suspect bearings.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> I got .0015", never really had a problem with apparent "wobble" on a blade, but mainly use Amana, Freud and Delta. I've used economy blades on my miter saw when I'm cutting framing, then back to the Amana for trim.
> 
> I checked with the saw sharpener today, it's going to cost as much to have the blade sharpened as a test of their quality as I paid for the saw - probably a worth-while investment before I drop off a couple of Amana 60T blades.


That pic I posted above is my Unisaw. I changed out the bearings while freshening it up and stoned it down to maybe .0008 or .001. After running and old crapsman contractor saw that had .015 runout (on the blade) I feel like I'm in heaven. :grin:


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Shadowrider said:


> That pic I posted above is my Unisaw. I changed out the bearings while freshening it up and stoned it down to maybe .0008 or .001. After running and old crapsman contractor saw that had .015 runout (on the blade) I feel like I'm in heaven. :grin:


The face of the flange has noticeable feed lines, although I don't think that it made any difference to the reading, even with the long fine tip I was using. I had a lot of problems getting in there with the indicator set-up that I was using so spent a couple of dollars with Enco for a flexible arm that I think will help next time. Now that I've got the blade to miter slot alignment where it needs to be. I'll go ahead and take that first cut on my new cross-cut sled.

Did you stone the flange face with the motor running? I think I'm OK with the runout I've got, just academic interest.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

This has been an interesting and informative thread for me. I've learned. As I've previously stated in a response to HarrySin's thread, pictures are worth a thousand words for me. Thanks to everyone who has posted.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> The face of the flange has noticeable feed lines, although I don't think that it made any difference to the reading, even with the long fine tip I was using. I had a lot of problems getting in there with the indicator set-up that I was using so spent a couple of dollars with Enco for a flexible arm that I think will help next time. Now that I've got the blade to miter slot alignment where it needs to be. I'll go ahead and take that first cut on my new cross-cut sled.
> 
> *Did you stone the flange face with the motor running?* I think I'm OK with the runout I've got, just academic interest.


No. I just marked the high area and stoned that. Doing it with it running is one way, I've seen guys on youtube that used a grinding bit in a router clamped to the table with both the router and motor running and used the tilt to engage the bit gingerly. But mine wasn't near that bad, you can stone off a .001 high spot in just a few minutes. Now my old craftsman would have taken the router method, but I just didn't want to mess with it.

If you are under .002 on that flange you are really good enough for all but the most extreme case.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Shadowrider said:


> No. I just marked the high area and stoned that. Doing it with it running is one way, I've seen guys on youtube that used a grinding bit in a router clamped to the table with both the router and motor running and used the tilt to engage the bit gingerly. But mine wasn't near that bad, you can stone off a .001 high spot in just a few minutes. Now my old craftsman would have taken the router method, but I just didn't want to mess with it.
> 
> If you are under .002 on that flange you are really good enough for all but the most extreme case.


Thanks. Did you have just a high spot, or true runout where the face is flat (+/-) but on an angle to the axis? - I'd think that this would be a little tougher to correct rather than just stoning off a high spot.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> Thanks. Did you have just a high spot, or true runout where the face is flat (+/-) but on an angle to the axis? - I'd think that this would be a little tougher to correct rather than just stoning off a high spot.


Actually I had both. The out of flat to the axis part of it was between 1/3 and 1/2 of the circumference and that had a bit of a high spot in it. But overall it wasn't very bad coming in at around .0025" total runout. I just marked where the high reading start and ended with a marker and judiciously stoned that area with a medium Norton India stone while rechecking often. If you have really bad runout of say .004 or more I'd color the whole face that contacts the side of the blade and mount a router to the table as I mentioned before and regrind the flange face just until you remove the black marking. Here's a video that shows the process.


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

So I rang machinemart technical. Unfortunately there is no adjustment whatsoever, after speaking to the tech guy he told me that with the table saws they allow 5mm out from one end of blade to the other in relation to the mitre slots, 5mm!!!

So it looks like my option is to either put up with it or sell it and invest in something better, not sure I would be able to return it for a refund because of this issue, I have to say that sucks!

I think I will try the customer services and see if I can obtain a credit note at least so I can put the money towards a better saw. I have seen a good Bosch saw for £450, solid cast top, and before I buy it I'm gonna check out the manual to see if it can be adjusted and ask to check in store before I leave with it. 

I have been burned , still a valuable lesson for the future eh?


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

Having checked the manual for the saw it does have adjustment, it's a Bosch GTS 10J, anyone have any opinions or owned one?


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, friends.

A lot of detailed work to get a balanced TS. As a hobbyist, I was not aware of that. Now, I need to check my TS for those reasons.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

@Easygeezer 5mm? That's insane to the point of being flat out dangerous. It's almost 1/4"! I'd be extremely unhappy with even 0.5mm but that's a heck of a lot more reasonable. What did they machine that thing with a dull brass chisel? Jeeze...

Edit: Just saw that you said it's a Bosch. I think you got bad info, I can't see Bosch abiding by tolerances of that magnitude. I know it's a jobsite saw, but it just doesn't sound right for them.

Check this out (similar saw):


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

riblars said:


> Hey Jeff check you tube and find "the wood whisperer" video 55 How to setup & tune a table saw. good luck.


I have seen this video several times and IMO it's great. As wood workers we don't need to be as accurate as a machinist. We do need to be pretty close IMO.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Scott; I thought Lee was referring to his present saw (Clarke ct10d ?), and was thinking of _ replacing_ it with a Bosch. 
(In reference to the 5mm slop).
I can't believe Bosch would accept *.5*mm let alone 5mm


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Scott; I thought Lee was referring to his present saw (Clarke ct10d ?), and was thinking of _ replacing_ it with a Bosch.
> (In reference to the 5mm slop).
> I can't believe Bosch would accept *.5*mm let alone 5mm


Talk about reading comprehension fail. I has it! :surprise:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Scott;
> (In reference to the 5mm slop).
> I can't believe Bosch would accept *.5*mm let alone 5mm


neither can I...


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

It was the Clarke technical guy that says they allow 5 mm out! I'm sending it back for a engineers report. It takes 10 days, don't see how they can do anything as there isn't any adjustment, plus the aluminium surface has worn off after running a table saw sled and a few pieces through my rip fence. The supplied rip fence was a joke. I'm hoping for a refund if possible, but I suppose store credit is ok as they sell the Bosch at machinemart also.

Basically it's a pile of sh¥t.

It was indeed the Bosch I was referring to as a replacement, it's only a cast aluminium top though, although it looks perfectly flat and gets solid reviews. There is also an Axminster saw for around £475 which has a cast iron top. I figure if I'm gonna spend £400 why not go for the extra 80


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Eazygeezer said:


> The supplied rip fence was a joke...
> 
> Basically it's a pile of sh¥t.


Mine was exactly the same. I threw it away and now I am using my RT fence instead since I can not ask for a reimbursement.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Tom--

What Charles said early on was that some high end cabinet saws, you cane move the table, Yours is not a high-end cabinet saw. In summary... you don't adjust a lower end say by trying to move the table's position... Of course mine is pinned in place with steel pins. If I need more than the trunions will allow, I have to drive the pin put to get more... But that would have to be way off to have to do that... (on mine)

I looked at your pictures and of the parts diagram... (Attached)

If you turn your saw upside down, and tlit your blade from 0 degrees - back to 0 degrees... You will see it pivot on a shaft (#73). Attached to that shaft is the motor mount, which the motor is attached through. Your saw has a gear reduction drive.

That shaft that pivots, goes through some rudimentary, pressed sheer metal bearing halves (#76 & #78), that are attached to the bottom of the table. (most likely studs with nuts, or short bolts...

It's the bearing halves that need to be able to move to get your adjustment. They have slightly oversized mounting holes, but not really made into a slot, that would allow and adjustment... >> So figure out which way they need to go, then elongate the holes in that direction with a chainsaw file... Put it back together with star washers to help hold it in place. Then move those bearings that directions and tighten them down. 

Move one side... Measure/check. repeat... you should be able to get it closer.

If that is not similar to what you think will work... take better photos of that shaft and what that turns in when it pivots...


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## Eazygeezer (Sep 23, 2013)

I didn't want to take it into tiny pieces to see if it could be altered to make it fit. I had hoped for either some simple adjustment or for it to be some kind of accurate out of the boys if there wasn't any adjustment.

I took it into the branch and it's gone off for engineer review/repair, I should get a call Monday to find out what's happening with it, I have almost decided on a suitable replacement anyway. I'm thinking of going for the Dewalt 745, it gets ecpxcellent reviews wherever you look. I will just have to wait and see what the outcome is of their review

Fingers crossed they can't do much and give me either a credit note or refund! Eternal optimist me


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