# Help me choose a new router



## jnbrown (Apr 14, 2013)

I have done some woodworking in the past, but it has been a long time.
Because I need to do some projects for my home I am looking at getting some updated tools. I have a really old Sears Carftsman router that isn't very good and doesn't have the capability I need. Here are the projects I am planning:

Wood side gates for the side of my house, one single gate and one double gate.
Two entry doors.
New kitchen cabinet doors.

This all started because the price to buy a new cedar gate is $750 each from Sederra.
At first I thought I would just use dowels because I have done that in the past and I have a nice dowel jig. But then I decided if I am going to do this I want to do it well.
I looked into various ways to make floating mortises and found the Mortise Pal jig. I also looked at Rockler's Beadlock jig. The beadlock jig would be less expensive since I would not even need a router but I read too many negatives about it. The Mortise Pal seems to be the best jig I can find for a reasonable price that will allow me to quickly and accurately make mortises. Now on to the routers. I would like one that has a fixed and plunge base. I mostly read Amazon reviews on Porter Cable, Bosch, Hitachi, etc.
Most have mostly good reviews but then there are those nagging negative reviews. Many people seemed to complain about cheap construction and difficulty with certain aspects. Also there were comments that their old router was better than the new one. Like everything else, power tool companies keep finding ways to make things cheaper. So here is my list of priorities in order:

1. 2-1/4 HP, lighter would be better (bad back), sufficient power to make mortises.
2. Accuracy
3. Ease of use
4. Good plunge mechanism
5. Quiet
6. Dust collection

I did find that the Festool OF 1010 EQ Router seems to have no issues but not sure if i want to spend $410 vs $200.
Thanks for any suggestions.

Think I am leaning towards Bosch 1617EVSPK after reading a thread below.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*Think I am leaning towards Bosch 1617EVSPK after reading a thread below.*

I have a few of those....

been
using them for years and no complaints...
the '17 sets the marching orders for everybody else...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Joel.

You are spoiled for choice in the US, but take your time to weigh up all the pros and cons before you make your decision.


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## RickPr (Jan 16, 2012)

Welcome Joel.

Rick


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

You will have to get your hands on several routers to see which controls you like best. I prefer the Bosch 1617EVSPK or the MRC23EVSK.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm a fan of the Bosch 1617EVSPK. Have two of them, a motor in the table, another for freehand and plunge use. They used to have a problem with sawdust jamming the switch, but I believe they resolved it. There are several things I particularly like about the Bosch: it has a wonderful array of accessories, including their edge guide (which is far superior to any other I've seen) -- Bosch RA1054 Deluxe Router Edge Guide With Dust Extraction Hood & Vacuum Hose Adapter. It has several dust collection options and the dust accessories fit very well. It fits neatly into most lift systems (I have Rockler's). It has a bayonet mount for templates -- Bosch RA1126 Quick Change Template Guide Adapter, which if you want to use Porter Cable guides requires a second adapter, the Bosch RA1100 Threaded Router Template Guide Adapter. The two adapters cost about $15. The plunge and fixed base dust extractor is the Bosch RA1173AT Dust Extraction Kit, and you will likely want their 35mm hose if you use the dust extraction if you don't have one already. Finally, if you make your own router table, you will appreciate that their fixed base can work as a router lift that is adjustable from above the table -- this will spoil you and is MUCH easier than bending over every time you want to make an adjustment.

I know some folks prefer the stronger 3+ hp units (such as Triton) for the table, but I haven't run into anything the Bosch couldn't handle. Speaking of handles, I really like the Bosch handles-comfortable for my sometimes sore hands. The soft start is also nice and the speed control is pretty nice too. I have looked at all the routers in this class and know there are many good makes and models, but after looking long and hard, I saw what you did, that the 1617 is one heck of a machine.

Finally, I suggest you browse Amazon's used books for some on routing. They can be had cheap and even the older volumes will give you lots of detail on their use, jigs and bits. I use a free down load helper app on Firefox to download YouTube videos on routing (and all other woodworking topics) because it is really nice to watch someone working with tools before you do it yourself.

Have fun with your new machine.


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## jnbrown (Apr 14, 2013)

Thanks guys for the feedback.
Anybody have experience with the Mortise Pal jig?
I know there are ways to improvise without one but I don't mind spending the money if it is going to get me up and running faster and with fewer mistakes.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

jnbrown said:


> 1. 2-1/4 HP, lighter would be better (bad back), sufficient power to make mortises.
> 2. Accuracy
> 3. Ease of use
> 4. Good plunge mechanism
> ...


Hello!

Got the festool OF1010 if any questions about it, I' ll answer.

My opinion is it's quite expensive, but reliable.
soft start, good electronic speed regulation.
Very efficient dust extraction.
In France, it came with a fence but no micrometric fence adjustment
The guide rail 800mm, attachement for this guide rail.
Most of accessories must be bought separatly, witch is ridiculous (imho)
at this price level.
Had to buy some guide bushes.
I already made the micrometric fence adaptation myself and can post plan.

My general feeling is that it' s powerfull and light to handle.
Plunge is quite smooth.
Plunge depht is accurate to a 1/10mm but designed probably before ww2.
The plunge graduation" calculator' is always resetting to zero with vibrations.
So it makes an accurate plunge , but relative, not absolute.

(I think they keep this model because some ebenists are addicted to it.)

The OF 1400 has a lot more power and is a lot more polyvalent.
The type of works you want to achieve asks for a 12mm or 1/2 cutters.
The 1400 is more modern and guide bushes are snap-on type, like on some Bosh.

I did recently bought this OF1010 because looking for accuracy and light weight.
I'm satisfied , but accuracy could be better.
(beeing a mechanic, usual machining tools at 2/100 mm accuracy.)

If I where to chose one, and only one, router, I' ll consider OF 1400.

Regards

Gérard.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

jnbrown said:


> Thanks guys for the feedback.
> Anybody have experience with the *Mortise Pal jig?*
> I know there are ways to improvise without one but I don't mind spending the money if it is going to get me up and running faster and with fewer mistakes.


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...7cb8QIGhkh5Jgg571PDgZag&bvm=bv.45175338,d.aWc


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

JessEm Zip Slot Mortise Mill - YouTube


===


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jnbrown said:


> Here are the projects I am planning:
> 
> Wood side gates for the side of my house, one single gate and one _*double gate*_.
> Two entry doors.


Hi Joel and welcome

Straight off that tells me that you'll need to do fairly big mortises and that you'll need a plunge router, preferably with something like a 65 to 80mm (3in +/-) depth of plunge. I have the slightly earlier OF1000 and it just won't hack that. Neither in my opinion will the OF1400 or many of the smaller combos (a bit low on power and insufficient depth of cut). For serious mortise work there is probably only combo out there which will hack it, the Bosch MR23. There are a number of "3-1/4 HP" 1/2in plunge routers which fit the bill with makes including Bosch, Hitachi, deWalt, Festool and Makita (can't say about the P-C #7529 - we don't see them in the EU). I mention those brands because they all sell into the trade market and therefore they are man enough. Other makes I tend to treat with deep suspicion.

But then you say this:



jnbrown said:


> 1. 2-1/4 HP, lighter would be better (bad back), sufficient power to make mortises.


and I have a problem. All the powerful stuff I'd go for is actually too heavy. In fact about the only tool which fits the bill is going to be the Bosch MR23

Mike is much better informed on that than I am, so I'm sure he'll chime in here 

Regards

Phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

ggom20 said:


> Got the festool OF1010.....
> 
> ....Plunge depht is accurate to a 1/10mm but designed probably before ww2.
> The plunge graduation" calculator' is always resetting to zero with vibrations.
> So it makes an accurate plunge , but relative, not absolute.


Haha Gérard!

At least I now know that I'm not the only one with issues about the Festool depth stop system



ggom20 said:


> The OF 1400 has a lot more power and is a lot more polyvalent.


I found the OF1400 is a bit gutless for heavy mortising (had one, tried it, not good) although the plunge depth is good (70mm). But then I'm a time is money guy

Regards

Phil


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## jnbrown (Apr 14, 2013)

That Jessem Zip Slot looks like a nice tool and no router needed. I will probably be needing a router anyway. The adjustments look really nice and I think better than than the Mortise Pal jig although I assume the Mortise Pal accuracy is good enough.
I wonder if this jig is still being produced and sold as I cannot find anyone selling it.

Edit: Looks like you can buy it direct from Jessem for $199.
I might need new drill because mine is really old and only has 3/8" chuck.

Zip Slot vs Mortise Pal: How do I decide?

After some more reading it seems the Zip Slot doesn't give the best results. I guess it just makes sense that if you want to do mortises, then use a router, not a drill.


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## Sgt45 (Apr 13, 2013)

I agree with most others. I did a lot of research before buying the 1617EVSPK and I'm very satisfied. Also, if you ever need absolute perfection like with a dovetail jig, the concentricity is right on.


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## jnbrown (Apr 14, 2013)

Phil P said:


> Hi Joel and welcome
> 
> Straight off that tells me that you'll need to do fairly big mortises and that you'll need a plunge router, preferably with something like a 65 to 80mm (3in +/-) depth of plunge. I have the slightly earlier OF1000 and it just won't hack that. Neither in my opinion will the OF1400 or many of the smaller combos (a bit low on power and insufficient depth of cut). For serious mortise work there is probably only combo out there which will hack it, the Bosch MR23. There are a number of "3-1/4 HP" 1/2in plunge routers which fit the bill with makes including Bosch, Hitachi, deWalt, Festool and Makita (can't say about the P-C #7529 - we don't see them in the EU). I mention those brands because they all sell into the trade market and therefore they are man enough. Other makes I tend to treat with deep suspicion.
> 
> ...


Phil,

The Bosch 2-1/4 HP router will do depths up to 2-5/16". Is that not going to be enough for entry doors that are say 30" x 80" ? Maybe this is an argumrnt for the Jessem Zip Slot since it will do 3-1/2" according to their web site. As you said the MR23 will do 3" depth but it looks like it can only be used as a plunge and I would like more versatiltiy than that and not have to buy two routers.

Further research - The Bosch MRC23EVSK looks like it will do everything I need. I read some complaints about the plunge action not being smooth, hard to know if that is a common problem or isolated cases.

Joel


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

jessem zip slot mortise mill - Google Search

http://www.rockler.com/how-to/?attachment_id=9811#main

Buy JessEm Replacement Zip Slot Drill Bit 1 2 inch at Woodcraft


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jnbrown said:


> The Bosch 2-1/4 HP router will do depths up to 2-5/16". Is that not going to be enough for entry doors that are say 30" x 80" ?


Consider this, Joel. If I were making a traditional entry door with traditional mortises and tenons my stiles would probably be something in the order of 75 to 100mm (3 to 4in) wide and I'd use a foxed (wedged) tenon to achieve the required strength and durability. With a loose tenon you'd go slightly less, so a 2-5/15in (59mm) loose tenon would probably work. My own experience in the area where I live, which is relatively wet for at least half the year, is that you shouldn't expect much more that 25 years out of a commercially made dowelled entry door before the glue joints on the dowels fail through moisture cycling. The dowels used in these doors are generally somewhere between 12 and 16mm diameter (1/2in to 5/8in) and so not much smaller than a loose tenon.

Your other tasks, gates, are much more susceptible to weather and for those in my area you wouldn't really consider loose tenons at all because they just wouldn't last _around here_. The only approach I'd take would be to make a foxed (wedged) through tenon. It is the wedges which continue to hold the joints together after the glue line has failed and which give traditional mortise and tenon joints used on farm gates and the like such durability. With the right cutters and a drill it is possible to make a through mortise up to about 4in deep, but being able to work from one side is a lot easier IMHO.

One question I have to ask: if you have back problems are you going to be able to handle the finished items? Hardwood (single) entry doors that I install are often in the area of 80 to 120kg (170 to 160 lbs) and swinging them requires the ability to carry them and then lift them into position

Regards

Phil


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## jnbrown (Apr 14, 2013)

Phil,

Thanks for your thoughts. I live in San Diego we don't get much rain although today it is raining. The entry doors are protected by an overhang so I am not worried about those. I probably will be buying them anyway because we want them to have a large glass panel and that won't be easy to find for a reasonable cost. The gates will probably be made out of western red cedar. I doubt anybody else makes them with a wedged through tenon, but I am thinking with the mortise pal, I can mortise from both sides to make a through mortise. Making a fixed tenon is something I have not researched yet. My current wood gate lasted 25 years, the joints have not failed but the wood is just rotteed. My father in law built them and I think he used screws or bolts because there some large plugs on the sides. I realize these item will be heavy and I will need help to move them.


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## fstellab (Oct 12, 2012)

*I finally settled on a Craftsman 2 1/4 Digital Plunge Router*

Hi Folks,

I am also new, but have been a trough a few routers.

As more features are to those high end routers watch the weight. 
I had a plunge router that was close to 20 pounds. 

I also read that the combo routers are not has good as having a router that was designed for one purpose. I found the fixed based routers could be purchased at very reasonable prices. So I got a P&C 690RL, I use it with a Wolfcraft router table that I installed in my workbench. That is a nice setup, P&C is only 1 1/2 HP, and has no issues with very hard wood, I am currently using Macumba for a project.

I just purchased a Craftsman 2 1/4 HP Digital plunge router. This is the one with the little CRT that helps us new folks set the correct speeds. It is fairly light (10 lbs), quieter then most and has a nice, even, smooth plunge action. For $90 I think I did good.

You also should consider putting some money aside for dust collection. 

JMHO

-Fred


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jnbrown said:


> I live in San Diego we don't get much rain although today it is raining


Well Joel, there's the rub. You are a whole world away in terms of climate and in particular moisture to the arear I live in which has waether a bit like the pacific Northwest (albeit not so extreme in winter). the rotting on your existing gates could be bpown to untreated steel ironmongery being used. I've installed redwood cedar lapping a few times and it's always been with stainless steel fastenings because mild steel will start to rout out after 5 to 6 years.

Good luck with your projects

Regards

Phil


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Haha Gérard!
> 
> At least I now know that I'm not the only one with issues about the Festool depth stop system
> 
> ...


Sure the depht calculator is not the best feature on OF 1010...
Seen whorse, and anyway ,I use a digital caliper for settings.
I' ll have to test the Of1400 It 's true it has only 2hp but looks easier
to handle than usual 10 to 19 pounds of the 3Hp's.
In the project of making two gates and a few doors, the time might be not such a problem for Joel...

IMHO about making gates or large doors, I'll sugest using throught tenons.
But it could also been made with absolutly no tenons, no mortices, and stiil
be a good looking strongly build gate.

An oblique wood triangulation, best glue, square hard wood dowels and althought this is probably an awfull thing to some of you, I' ll use large healthy steel hinges,the type that also helps keeping the door square.
Sort of decorative square plus hinges.
This really helps for the long term reliability.

équerre torbel - équerre queue de carpe - Quincaillerie LBA Thivel: bâtiment - menuiserie - ameublement - agencement - outillage.

Regards.
Gérard


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