# 2nd Build (first) - CNC Router



## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Building my 2nd CNC *first*, I hope. I have been researching for over a year, read a thousand threads and articles, and am hopefully building my 'second machine' for my first. There is still a ton to learn and that process will probably never stop. Of this I am certain, I will be in new territory for a while. For over 40 years I have been building things, doing hydraulics, pneumatics, and electronics builds and troubleshooting along with a lot of woodworking but have never used or built a CNC machine. This is going to be fun!!

The machine is a new model by Nate at Fine Line Automation. It's a 'pro' series he calls Saturn and it is very heavy. Shipping weight was 525 lbs. for this 2'x4' model. Take away the OxBox and pallet and it's probably still 475 lbs. The frame is welded and stress relieved steel, powder coated Pantone 305. It has THK style linear bearings, rack and pinion drive, and the components are anodized black 6061 aluminum. I have a 3 Kw water cooled spindle and NEMA 34 stepper motors ready to mount. I'll be using the Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD to drive the spindle. The actual cutting area is 28”x52” with 10” Z travel.

The first order of business, now that it's here, was clearing out enough space in our shop for *two *CNC machines (our shop is the attached two-car garage). It has to set in one place while I build the stand where it will actually reside, so space for two in an already crowded shop. I'll be building a frame with 2x4's and maybe a couple of 2x6's. Then I need about 5 large friends to help me carry the CNC over to the stand.

Picked up from FedEx and barely fit on a friend's trailer - 








OxBox container removed and setting on the pallet until I get the stand built -








A few close-ups – 
























Next step will be a trip to Lowe's for 2x4's and then make some sawdust.

Hope you enjoy the ride with me!
David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

What software you gonna use?

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I don't know a lot yet regarding CNC's , but that gantry looks rock solid heavy duty to me


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

go a head..
make us envious...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> What software you gonna use?
> 
> HJ


Fusion 360 for CAD/CAM along with CorelDRAW X8 and leaning heavily toward Mach 4 for the controller. I may also use FreeCAD and SketchUp to some extent.



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I don't know a lot yet regarding CNC's , but that gantry looks rock solid heavy duty to me


I have a whole lot to learn but I have a long history with 'old arn' and I like some heft to my equipment. My preference is to have equipment I can lean on without it moving. 

And you are correct about the gantry; it weighs 125 lbs. by itself. I have the option of filling the frame with sand if I need additional weight or if there are any harmonics or resonance issues. Adding additional weight isn't something I'll need to do, if I were to take a guess... :no:


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Nice looking machine, keep the progress pictures coming!
Dave


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Drool-worthy! Thanks for posting.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's a shot of the gantry clearance -


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Looks like you picked a good starting point. I still have the plans for a home built machine by Solsilva somewhere in a cabinet drawer. 2x4's, skate bearings & such. Nothing like your pictures.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

When you build the table for it, you might want to leave an opening in the top that lines up with one of the gaps in the frame. Sooner or later you'll want to do some vertical/angled end cutting and that hole will let you clamp parts standing up for tenons/dovetails/box joints on their ends.

4D


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Looks like a great system but when I first glanced at the first photo with what appears to be a paver in the background I was beginning to wonder just what you were in for. :grin:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> When you build the table for it, you might want to leave an opening in the top that lines up with one of the gaps in the frame. Sooner or later you'll want to do some vertical/angled end cutting and that hole will let you clamp parts standing up for tenons/dovetails/box joints on their ends.
> 
> 4D


Yep, I was showing Sandy just a few minutes ago how that would work and why I'll leave a portion open for doing vertical pieces. Good call, 4D!!



JFPNCM said:


> Looks like a great system but when I first glanced at the first photo with what appears to be a paver in the background I was beginning to wonder just what you were in for. :grin:


Now *that *would be a truly serious machine if I need to 'up' the foundation first, right!! LOL!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Started on the stand and got it about half finished (yes, it's upside down) -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Finished the stand today. I know I'm thorough but this took me about 20 hours to build and I have no idea if that's slow or fast or about average. It's actually fast for me and I managed to do it in two sessions - 8 hours yesterday and 12 today.

All the pieces that will contact the CNC frame are jointed to ensure they're flat and straight and each hole was drilled with 1/8" for threads, 3/16" for the barrel, countersunk for the head, and securely tightened, so about 4 operations for each of the hundred or so fasteners. Each joint is square and tight and then the entire stand was sanded. I may come back later and put some Shellac on it but not today.

A friend is coming over tomorrow and bringing his engine hoist so we can lift the frame onto the stand. More later!!

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow heavy duty looking stand David . I'm thinking maybe some more studs on the bottom and some plywood covering to act as a place to store stuff underneith


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow heavy duty looking stand David . I'm thinking maybe some more studs on the bottom and some plywood covering to act as a place to store stuff underneath


Thanks, Rick! More studs for bracing or double up like I did on the top? 

I left it open so I could go back and put shelves or drawers in but figured I would wait to see just how I use the CNC before committing to a storage type.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Looks beefy enough. Might plan for a cross brace running 90 degrees from the first center one once you have the CNC weight on it. Just in case there is a little racking in the long direction under that weight. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Thanks, Rick! More studs for bracing or double up like I did on the top?
> 
> I left it open so I could go back and put shelves or drawers in but figured I would wait to see just how I use the CNC before committing to a storage type.


No I was thinking of more bracing /studs on the bottom level by the floor for shelving . But forgot about 4D's idea of an open bed design on one end to clamp verticals pieces for tenons etc. 
I guess a guy could still do some of it


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

We managed to get the CNC frame lifted over the table saw extension and on to the stand. The stand worked perfectly, so that's a good feeling. Nothing creaked or moved and it is dead level with the additional nearly 500 lbs. of weight just as it was without the frame weighing it down.

My friend Adam, also a good woodworker, brought his engine hoist over and we managed to maneuver the CNC over the obstacles and set onto the stand and only had to move my air compressor to make room. That's not a bad feat given how tight this was.









CNC frame on the stand -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's a good shot of the CNC in our shop. There's some clutter from moving things around to make room for this but I'll get that organized and cleaned up soon. You can see the spindle, steppers, and other components on the bench so hopefully I'll get a chance to start mounting those over the next few days.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow impressive looking shop . The new cnc looks right in place there . Like the stand you made to , it fits so well it's like its built for it


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow impressive looking shop . The new cnc looks right in place there . Like the stand you made to , it fits so well it's like its built for it


Thanks, Rick! It's not a bad shop at all for a home setup. But like most, it didn't get that way overnight and I'm certain it will keep changing. We need to build a shed so I can get the few remaining yard tools out - they have no business in the shop! LOL!

Funny how that stand fits, right? Got lucky.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Funny how that stand fits, right? Got lucky.


lol, I was concerned as this may have gone over a few heads here .
You've got one heck of a home shop there . Curious about the size . I'm using my garage and it's an issue with 22 by 26. 36-36 would sure have been nice


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> lol, I was concerned as this may have gone over a few heads here .
> You've got one heck of a home shop there . Curious about the size . I'm using my garage and it's an issue with 22 by 26. 36-36 would sure have been nice


21' x 21' for a portion but usable space is more like 18' x 18'. One issue I have with space is that the attic stairway is on the left side in the last photo and right above the air compressor so I can't use half of that wall. Another issue is the windows; I like being able to see out because this is the front of the house but it also means I can't use that wall space, either, and you can see that there is step in the wall resulting in about a 2' reduction of width (look at the overarm router). I did put my small bandsaw in front of one window and propped the ladder in front of the other one (we need a shed!). The wall nearest the DC and the CNC has my workbench and the mini-split above that but the biggest 'wall hog' is my 10' long Oliver lathe that I don't use.

In short, it's tight but workable, and I am able to use the 'moving wall' space for the big bandsaw and some other tools. I don't build large pieces so it works out ok.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Added some locator blocks to keep the frame on the stand. I figure gravity will do its part to hold the machine down onto the stand but inertia and momentum may persuade the unit to slide on the stand. Hopefully this will suffice. There are 4 of these blocks in opposing directions, two on each end.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

got a suggestion...
add rubber anti skid pads that will double as vibration dampers between the CNC and the stand.......
put them on the bottom of the legs too...
come in all kinds of sizes, densities and thicknesses...
Shepherd 2 in. Anti-Skid Pads 8 Pack-9971 - The Home Depot


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> got a suggestion...
> add rubber anti skid pads that will double as vibration dampers between the CNC and the stand.......
> put them on the bottom of the legs too...
> come in all kinds of sizes, densities and thicknesses...
> Shepherd 2 in. Anti-Skid Pads 8 Pack-9971 - The Home Depot


Thought about that, Stick. I don't yet know what sort of vibration I'll encounter and sort of wanted to see how much and then start dampening if/where needed. I have a small sheet of 1/16" Neoprene but these that you suggested might just be easier to implement. Thanks!


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

I would put a diagonal brace on the long sides there is a lot of momentum when moving in the long direction I see you have them on the short sides


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

fixtureman said:


> I would put a diagonal brace on the long sides there is a lot of momentum when moving in the long direction I see you have them on the short sides


Definitely a good idea! I'm still considering a diagonal in that direction but left it open in case I decide to build drawers or want other use of that space. One thing I considered is running diagonals down the center and put drawers in from each side or drawers from one side and cabinet space on the other. When I designed the stand and drew it in CorelDRAW I added those braces but didn't cut them preferring to take a 'wait and see' approach. I'll be watching it closely, for sure!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fixtureman said:


> I would put a diagonal brace on the long sides there is a lot of momentum when moving in the long direction I see you have them on the short sides


do think a solid piece of ply would work better and then it could be as a tool board also...
build the bracing as a ''box/compartment'' and drawers/shelves could be added...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Thought about that, Stick. I don't yet know what sort of vibration I'll encounter and sort of wanted to see how much and then start dampening if/where needed. I have a small sheet of 1/16" Neoprene but these that you suggested might just be easier to implement. Thanks!


thicker pads will cut down on the resonation making for a few less Db's....


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> thicker pads will cut down on the resonation making for a few less Db's....


I got digital stepper drivers with anti-resonance features so I'm hoping I won't have much in the way of resonance. But it's good to know that thicker pads are better than thin ones for cutting the noise level. Gotta' admit that 1/16" is pretty thin but it's what I have on hand is the only reason I mentioned it. I still like the pads you referenced earlier better, though.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

those pads can get up to a ¼'' thick...
and what's to stop you from doubling or even tripling up thin ones...

felt/rubber composite one work well too...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Busy day but managed to get three of the motors mounted and belts tensioned. I'm waiting on a spacer and a coupler to mount the fourth motor, also waiting on the spindle mount.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

it's gonna be criminal to get that dusty...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> it's gonna be criminal to get that dusty...


These make dust??? Sheesh, NOW you tell me!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> These make dust??? Sheesh, NOW you tell me!


yup..
who'da thunk..


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks for all of the pictures.

The rest of us can only dream of having a machine like yours. I have enjoyed watching the assembly through your posts.
Keep the pictures coming and I will "dream on"


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

dick in ia said:


> Thanks for all of the pictures.
> 
> The rest of us can only dream of having a machine like yours. I have enjoyed watching the assembly through your posts.
> Keep the pictures coming and I will "dream on"


Thanks, Dick! I've been dreaming of it for a while myself. I'm looking forward to being able to make some of that dust Stick was talking about!


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Dust/chips from hardwoods are nearly a delight to see accumulate as you cut. Stay away from MDF though. Nastiest dust you'll see. It will still be messing up a shop for days after you are done cutting it. 

4D


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> Dust/chips from hardwoods are nearly a delight to see accumulate as you cut. Stay away from MDF though. Nastiest dust you'll see. It will still be messing up a shop for days after you are done cutting it.
> 
> 4D


I've used my router table for making guitar templates and forms out of MDF and it is definitely nasty. I just bought one of the HF dust collectors and I know it will do better than my shop vac. But I think cutting MDF is unavoidable - spoil board, fixtures and forms, etc. I'm working on a dust shoe for the spindle and that will help.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't make guitars or anything related, but when I need jigs or templates my choice of material is baltic birch plywood. I never throw away any scraps of 1/4" BB or 1/8" BB as I can always find a use for even the smallest scraps. Shim under the outboard end of a clamp. Spoilboard between my CNC's MDF t-track top and the work. Etc.. 

And to make your MDF spoilboard last longer and make less dust, set the Z axis to it, but enter the material thickness instead of zero in the software. Set the top of the material as zero when drawing up the toolpaths. Sometimes I'll also leave 1/64" or so rather than cutting through parts. Usually easy to bandsaw apart, then flush trim with a 1/4" diameter spiral upcut pattern bit after taking it off the CNC.

4D


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> I don't make guitars or anything related, but when I need jigs or templates my choice of material is baltic birch plywood. I never throw away any scraps of 1/4" BB or 1/8" BB as I can always find a use for even the smallest scraps. Shim under the outboard end of a clamp. Spoilboard between my CNC's MDF t-track top and the work. Etc..
> 
> And to make your MDF spoilboard last longer and make less dust, set the Z axis to it, but enter the material thickness instead of zero in the software. Set the top of the material as zero when drawing up the toolpaths. Sometimes I'll also leave 1/64" or so rather than cutting through parts. Usually easy to bandsaw apart, then flush trim with a 1/4" diameter spiral upcut pattern bit after taking it off the CNC.
> 
> 4D


Thank you for the tips! Soooooo much to learn... :blink:


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

I have the Harbor Freight dust collector and a Thein separator very little MDF dust goes into the collectors bag most is dropped into the barrel that the Thein sits on. For every 30 gallons of MDF dust in the barrel I get about a handful in the collectors bag


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

fixtureman said:


> I have the Harbor Freight dust collector and a Thein separator very little MDF dust goes into the collectors bag most is dropped into the barrel that the Thein sits on. For every 30 gallons of MDF dust in the barrel I get about a handful in the collectors bag


I built a Thien separator for my shop vac and it works just great. So I plan to build a larger one for the HF DC and may build a cyclone, as well. Like your DC, my shop vac itself never gets anything except the fine dust on the filter.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

I have a HF DC connected with a Rockler separator mounted on 54 gallon plastic drum. This works great with table saw, planer, band saw and jointer that create bigger chips with larger volume. 

Dust Right® 4" Dust Separator Components - Rockler Woodworking Tools

It didn't seem to pull enough suction for the CNC dust foot, plus being a heavy hose to connect. So, I made a Thein baffle for my shop vac and it worked better. Now, I have a Fein vacuum with a Dust Deputy to do the separation. When the dust foot skirt is adjusted right, the dust is fully captured.

https://www.amazon.com/Fein-9-20-28...8&qid=1469199530&sr=1-6&refinements=p_89:Fein

Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

SteveMI said:


> I have a HF DC connected with a Rockler separator mounted on 54 gallon plastic drum. This works great with table saw, planer, band saw and jointer that create bigger chips with larger volume.
> 
> Dust Right® 4" Dust Separator Components - Rockler Woodworking Tools
> 
> ...


Good tips, Steve! Thanks!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Quick question - I see VFD's mounted inside panels/enclosures and others mounted away from the machine on a wall or column; which is better? Do they need to be on a wall or column away from the machine for heat and vibration reasons, quick access to the control panel, etc., or is it just personal preference?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I got my computer, controls, and VFD on a table that slides underneath the bed when not in use. Pull it out when cutting. Don't think it really matters where it is.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I got my computer, controls, and VFD on a table that slides underneath the bed when not in use. Pull it out when cutting. Don't think it really matters where it is.
> 
> HJ


That sounds like a good idea, John. Can you post a photo of yours? 

Thanks!
David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

It's not pretty, David. My machine sits on a table that I built 30+ years ago that my son and I used as work table (think catch all) when he was growing up and I had a short "hobby" table that happened to fit underneath it. I usually just leave the little one out with everything on it since I got the room and use the machine quite often.

One of these days I'm gonna make a 4 posted open stand. One of these days............

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The spindle mount just arrived. I'm now 5 minutes closer to finishing - LOL! That's all it took to mount this, so while I can't run without it I figure I've only gained 5 minutes. :grin:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The screw caps also came in with the spindle mount and I had time tonight after church to put those on - 72 of them! That took a lot longer than mounting the spindle, for sure. But it will keep dust out of the screw holes and help lengthen the life of the bearings. After I put them in I dressed each one down to make sure nothing was sticking up proud of the surface.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Is the spindle water cooled? Out of curiosity where will you be money wise when you are done not counting the bench. I have my nebula mounted on a mobile platform and I have yet to set the wheels up and put it down on its legs . Like HJ my computer is on a separate bench with a swing arm with my 32 inch monitor . I have storage underneath and a drawer on 1 end for bits and tools
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

More pics. I do not have pics of the bottom shelf. It is removable so when I want to cut vertical the shelf slides out .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

edison auto said:


> Is the spindle water cooled? Out of curiosity where will you be money wise when you are done not counting the bench. I have my nebula mounted on a mobile platform and I have yet to set the wheels up and put it down on its legs . Like HJ my computer is on a separate bench with a swing arm with my 32 inch monitor . I have storage underneath and a drawer on 1 end for bits and tools
> Mark


Yes, it is a water cooled spindle. But I have yet to pick out a water pump, radiator (if we actually need one), and maybe a few odds and ends. We're around $4,300 now, including the stand, which was about $50 worth of 2x4's. For what we're getting I think that's a very good deal!!

I wish we had room for a cart but I'm going to have to figure something out soon. My workbench is right behind the CNC so I might just set the computer and monitor there for now.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, bummer... I am all set to wire the enclosure this weekend and my box arrived on time from Amazon, as usual. However, for the first time in a long time they sent the wrong item. I ordered a 16x16x8 enclosure and they sent a 20x24x8 box. That would be ok if it would fit but it is way too large and I'm gonna have to send it back. I'd have to modify the stand or mount it somewhere off the machine for this to work for me and I don't wish to do either of those.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

edison auto said:


> More pics. I do not have pics of the bottom shelf. It is removable so when I want to cut vertical the shelf slides out .


I'll probably add a drawer or two after I get rolling along and see what I'll need. Yours looks nice, Mark!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, the 16x16x8 enclosure came in today from Amazon and it appears God was watching out for me via Amazon shipping the 24x20x8 enclosure on Friday. I typically plan to the last little detail but on the enclosure choice I never laid out all the components, just assumed 16x16x8 would be sufficient. Man, was I wrong!! So I'm keeping the larger (wrong) one sent on Friday and shipping back the smaller one.

I loosely laid out the components on the back plate and there's no way this would have ever fit on the smaller one -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The spacer for the Z axis motor came in today along with the correct 14mm flex mount so now that's complete (except wiring) - 

















This measurement doesn't mean anything but for scale it is 31" from the top of the motor to the bottom of the spindle nut -


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Does that mean you got over 2' of Z axis room if you use a flat bed - more room with the bed removed?

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Does that mean you got over 2' of Z axis room if you use a flat bed - more room with the bed removed?
> 
> HJ


No sir, the actual Z travel is 10". That's more than most machines this size have. I just stated the distance because sometimes it's hard to tell in a photo just how large or small something is and there wasn't anything in the photo for reference.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Still, that's about twice what I have if I leave the bed on. There are times where an extra inch or two would be nice. You may not need the extra room much, but when you do, it'll be worth it.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

More of the electronic components came in today but I am waiting on a 12V power supply (just ordered today due to a change in plans from the way I originally intended one component), a terminal strip, and a few connectors. I'll likely make a little platform for the 5V and place the 12V PSU under it to save some back plate space. I'll be sure to give it enough space for all to remain cool but there's no reason not to stack these. 

The pushbutton switches are both momentary with the green start button being NO and the red mushroom button being NC. The circuit I have designed will close the relays and start the power supplies and fans with the green button but nothing else will run until directed by the controller software. If I install a manual jog then that would work, though. The red button is not an emergency stop though it would have the same effect. It will cause the relays to open and there would be no power at all to the components. These pushbuttons will be at the opposite end of what I would call the 'front' of the machine so even though the red button is accessible I'll have other real e-stop switches located in better places for immediate use.

The relays in the bottom right corner will be for 120VAC and 240VAC. Only one of the contactors will be used on the 120V unless I decide to split the load and use both. The 240V relay will only be used for the VFD/Spindle. Both will open in the event of a power loss and that ensures the system won't restart on its own when power is restored.

I'm also allowing enough room for one more stepper driver for a future A axis installation. I'll go ahead and drill/tap the holes for it but will get the driver later. There will be a second and smaller fan to the right of the VFD and it will blow out. The bottom fan will blow in across the stepper drivers and power supplies.

So this is what it looks like in my initial layout, which is of course subject to change -


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

difalkner said:


> Well, the 16x16x8 enclosure came in today from Amazon and it appears God was watching out for me via Amazon shipping the 24x20x8 enclosure on Friday. I typically plan to the last little detail but on the enclosure choice I never laid out all the components, just assumed 16x16x8 would be sufficient. Man, was I wrong!! So I'm keeping the larger (wrong) one sent on Friday and shipping back the smaller one.
> 
> I loosely laid out the components on the back plate and there's no way this would have ever fit on the smaller one -


When updating my older CNC, I ordered a box from amazon for my enclosure after laying all the components out and even doing a mock-up with cardboard. There was enough room and seemed to be empty space for later. Then the enclosure box arrived and I started assembling. The components would physically mount and fit, but it is a major puzzle to get anything out afterward and the wiring is way too hidden. Any next work needed on it and I will up-size the enclosure.

Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

SteveMI said:


> When updating my older CNC, I ordered a box from amazon for my enclosure after laying all the components out and even doing a mock-up with cardboard. There was enough room and seemed to be empty space for later. Then the enclosure box arrived and I started assembling. The components would physically mount and fit, but it is a major puzzle to get anything out afterward and the wiring is way too hidden. Any next work needed on it and I will up-size the enclosure.
> 
> Steve.


Yep, funny how that works Steve. As you look at the photo of my initial layout you can see that once I start adding wiring, terminal blocks, etc. this will get crowded quickly. Each time I go to this larger box to consider how I'll arrange everything I just am *so *glad I got this by mistake and didn't have to use the smaller box.

I should have done this mock up in CorelDRAW *before *I ordered the enclosure...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

We've been out of town moving my daughter to New Orleans and I'm still waiting on a couple of things before I start wiring, but I did manage to build the little platform mount for the 5V power supply. I'll get the holes drilled and tapped in the aluminum angle so I can mount the power supply but have to wait before committing to placement on the panel until the other things come in. Also, I'm starting a project with some beautiful Curly Maple and Walnut so I'll be bouncing back and forth between getting this wired up and doing some woodworking.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I may actually have all the components I need now to wire this up but in the meantime I decided to test my submersible water pump. It seemed fitting to do a little video so that's what I did and you may find it lightly entertaining, at my expense of course...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow David , that pump moves a lot of water for its size. For a second there I thought you were going to end up on Americas Funniest videos


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow David , that pump moves a lot of water for its size. For a second there I thought you were going to end up on Americas Funniest videos


Close, oh so close!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

did that module survive???


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> did that module survive???


Yes sir, turns out it only splashed onto the side and not inside. Almost a true YouTube moment! :lol:


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Nice machine, solid construction. Great shop.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Nice machine, solid construction. Great shop.


Thanks, Mike! I'm working in the shop today and finalizing my wiring and the location of components on the back panel. Lots of choices and options! Trying to think of everything like heat and airflow in the enclosure, keeping high voltage lines away from low voltage and signal lines, future additions like a rotary axis, etc. You know, just your normal woodshop stuff...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It's time to wire the panel but I wanted to make certain there would be sufficient airflow on the stepper drivers, in particular the Z and future A (rotary axis) since they aren't right in front of the fan. This is a simple little test but it validates what I thought it would be like so the next step is laying out the hole placement for the components and then drilling/tapping for a bunch of 6-32 screws.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

David you might go ahead and install the A axis driver while you have the cabinet open so you don't have to break down the setup and then re-hook everything up later. I know it was a pain when I installed my A axis driver.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> David you might go ahead and install the A axis driver while you have the cabinet open so you don't have to break down the setup and then re-hook everything up later. I know it was a pain when I installed my A axis driver.


I'm debating that now, Mike. It's another $100 and I'm at my budget number now (it's not so much the money but rather a penchant for sticking to a budget). I *am* going to drill the mounting holes, install the plug for the stepper, and run the wires now even if I don't get the drive right away. That way when I get it later it will essentially be plug and play. I told Sandy I am making a place for it and she said the same thing - just go ahead and get it, so the 'Shop Foreman' is giving direction and I might just follow that directive this time.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Get it. You might even use it some day.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I had some meetings today so I didn't get very far on the CNC build but I did manage to print the component layout and get it taped to the back panel. Yes, I realize this may be a bit over the top and yes I am a bit anal but this is just the way I like to do things... 

With this printed and taped to the panel all I have to do now is drill where indicated, so even though it took a little time to draw this to scale and print it now my job is much easier. Plus, this gave me the opportunity for optimum placement without interference between components.

























One thing necessary was to make certain the switches didn't interfere with the PSU's or VFD since those come close to the door. But I drew these to scale, as well, and then opened and closed the door to verify nothing would hit on the inside.

Looking down from the top of the electrical enclosure with the door closed (PSU's and VFD are the dashed lines) - 








And with the door open - 








Thanks for reading and following - more later!
David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Love your printed template idea Dave . Great thread , and one of my favourite subjects .


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

The more I look at this the more you have my admiration, Dave .........and the more I'm glad I ordered mine already assembled. You got a lot of parts that I'm quite sure would never go in my preassembled control box.

But, I'm thinking of getting another one (depends how the holiday season goes) and getting the frame, gantry, and bed from CNC router parts and putting Probotix's Linux controls on it. Don't know how hard I want to work yet, with hunting season the same time as the holidays. You know - priorities. 

Keep the journal entries coming.

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I hope it will have a clear panel so you can see the flashing lights on your drivers.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

In preparation for drilling and tapping all the holes in the back panel I realized I had yet to drill the holes in the brackets for the 5V power supply. Simple task, right? Just stick it in the vise and drill 5/32" holes in the aluminum - a veritable walk in the park. Unless you don't clamp the vise very tight...

Oops! Drill bit grabbed and slung this across the room - 








But I straightened it out, polished the new character marks out, and shot some lacquer on both pieces - 








Lots of holes drilled and tapped, ready for components - 








Components mounted - 








More to come!
Thanks for following,
David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow that looks pro David , nice work


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow that looks pro David , nice work


Thanks, Rick! It has definitely been a fun ride and not over so more to come.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's a topic that is likely easy to answer but I suspect there are folks on both sides of this fence: I have two 48V power supplies, 10.4 amp, and we are using four 5.5 amp NEMA 34 stepper motors. I thought it would be a good idea for load balancing to put Z and one Y on one power supply and X and the other Y on the other power supply. My thinking is that if movement is only in the Y direction then the load will be split between the two power supplies rather than all coming from one. Obviously if movement is circular or off the straight line Y axis then at least 3 motors will be engaged at the same time, sometimes all four.

So is that a regular, accepted thing or should both Y steppers be powered by the same PSU?

Thanks in advance!
David


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

David,

I don't think it should make much difference. Like you say at times you will have all four steppers running at the same time. One thing to consider is where your A axis stepper will be powered to make sure you are not drawing power for three steppers from one power supply, this may help you decide which power supply to use for each stepper. That will depend which axis you wrap for your A axis.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David I know nothing about it , but when I read this my thinking is that there's more current draw to move the entire gantry on the Y axis , so I'd dedicate one ps to it .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> David,
> 
> I don't think it should make much difference. Like you say at times you will have all four steppers running at the same time. One thing to consider is where your A axis stepper will be powered to make sure you are not drawing power for three steppers from one power supply, this may help you decide which power supply to use for each stepper. That will depend which axis you wrap for your A axis.


Here's my thought process (scary, I realize...) - My initial design has the A axis primarily on the front of the machine parallel to the X axis for short stock, say 15"-18", but what I've designed will also mount 90° from that and be parallel to the Y axis for longer stock to take advantage of the 4' length of the machine frame. 

However, most of the A axis motion will be in small increments or indexing as the X or Y moves along the length of the stock. While it may be necessary on occasion to turn the A axis in continuous motion, like a lathe, I just don't see that being the norm. And if that becomes necessary I would think it to be low speed and low load so it shouldn't even be pulling the full current draw for the A axis stepper motor. For that reason I thought splitting the load for the Y steppers would be good. 

I could simplify all this by just placing A along the Y axis for the maximum length stock and just forget about having two configurations for A... 

















Another thought is I can simply move the two terminals for powering the A stepper driver, as needed, from one power supply to the next in about two minutes. At this time I don't know how often I'll use the A axis so it isn't yet an issue but I have one soon to be frequent customer asking if I'll be able to do any routing on curved or round stock and if I'm able to do that then he's going to want 12-15 items in Walnut every month. If what he wants is short enough to use the A configuration along the X axis then he's going to keep me busy enough to just leave it there and manage the power supplies as needed. Decisions, decisions... :blink:


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I have enjoyed this thread! I hope you continue to find new and innovative ways to make your machine create works of art.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

David,

You could also add a switch to change which power supply the A axis will use so you don't have to take the two minutes to change the wires at the terminals, just flip the switch.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> David,
> 
> You could also add a switch to change which power supply the A axis will use so you don't have to take the two minutes to change the wires at the terminals, just flip the switch.


I thought about that but figured I'd get dinged for going too far, Mike. Now that I have your 'permission', though...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Makes sense to me, too. Now's the time to do it.

HJ


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

Full speed ahead!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Got a little further today on the build but not by leaps and bounds... The proximity sensors weren't going to be in the right location so I drilled new holes, 31/64", and that was difficult in this stress relieved steel. That is some hard stuff! It took about half an hour to drill 3 holes and I had to sharpen the drill bit about 4 times.

Anyway, I decided to move the enclosure to the front of the machine instead of on the rear where I had initially planned to mount it. I just couldn't get comfortable with it being on the opposite end of the machine. Tomorrow I'll drill the holes in the stand and get it mounted though I'll have to take it back off to drill all the holes for cable entry.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I've laid out my template for drilling holes for connectors on the side of the enclosure and hope to get to that tonight. Lots of holes!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

One of those times when it's really nice to have a floor model drill press!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I used a homemade 5/8" brad point drill bit to cut the holes for the 4 and 5 pin connectors and drilled a 3/8" hole to use the Greenlee chassis punch on the 1/2" conduit holes (7/8" dia.). The friend who brought his engine lift over to lift this onto the stand has the Greenlee hydraulic kit and that's pretty nice. For these small holes I just used my manual Greenlee although I have the ball bearing version so it's a piece of cake on this 16 gauge steel. I have some larger holes to make for switches in the door and will probably use the hydraulic punch on those.

Greenlee hydraulic punch - 








Greenlee manual punch - 








All connectors set into place - 








More later - thanks for following and commenting!!
David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

All I can say is wow . David you have some great skills there , and I like your style , perfect or nothing !


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> All I can say is wow. David you have some great skills there, and I like your style, perfect or nothing!


Thanks, Rick! I am _*definitely *_having fun but a lot of guys would have been finished by now...


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Thanks, Rick! I am _*definitely *_having fun but a lot of guys would have been finished by now...


I been waiting to see that first project from your new CNC!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Thanks, Rick! I am _*definitely *_having fun but a lot of guys would have been finished by now...


I think your doing great . I certainly wouldn't rush a project like this . It's my dream to someday follow in your foot steps and build something simular


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Spent a little time on this Labor Day making a bracket and mounting a box for the main E-stop switch. I don't have any metal working tools other than a drill press so I'm pleased with the results of this little foray into metal working. This is a wet location single outlet box from Lowe's and since I had some Ferrari yellow I thought that would be a good color to paint the box. Then I baked it in the oven for a while at 170° and let it set - seems pretty tough. And I got suitably dressed down for smelling up the oven so I promised not to let it happen again (today)... 

At some point after I get the CNC up and running I'll make little aluminum spacers to replace the 6 washers I used to space the bracket out far enough so it doesn't hit the proximity sensor. It's in close 'proximity' to the sensor but doesn't touch it... 

I'll have a second E-stop mounted in the same type box but the second one will be on a cable and free to move around.

Bracket back side slides over bolts that can be removed to put sand into the frame if I needed additional weight (like 500 pounds isn't heavy enough!!) or if I need to control resonance in the stepper motors - 








I mounted this high enough that I don't think I'll accidentally lean into it with my hips or bump it walking by and because it's square 1/16" wall tubing it is very stout, doesn't budge when I hit it - 








I'll bring the cable up from the open bottom of the tubing and into the box through this grommet to protect the cable from the aluminum edges.








Back side of the bracket and switch -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , I swear you could support a half ton truck on that gantry . Sure looks heavy duty . I like overkill


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Almost going to be a shame to get it dirty and dusty when the time comes.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I swear you could support a half ton truck on that gantry . Sure looks heavy duty . I like overkill


The gantry by itself weights 125 pounds so you may not be too far off, Rick!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Almost going to be a shame to get it dirty and dusty when the time comes.
> 
> HJ


Ever since I built the stand all my tools have been covered up by CNC parts and the table saw top is my main work area. I don't remember what dust is, John!! LOL!


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

David,

I guess you are telling us that you anticipate need to e-stop your machine at one time or another. 
And I guess you are adding the extra e-stop on a cable so you can hide from parts being thrown around your shop and shut it down from a safe hiding place, GOOD IDEA.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> David,
> 
> I guess you are telling us that you anticipate need to e-stop your machine at one time or another.
> And I guess you are adding the extra e-stop on a cable so you can hide from parts being thrown around your shop and shut it down from a safe hiding place, GOOD IDEA.


Yep, forgot to mention the movable blast shield out of 1" thick Plexiglas... :grin:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Started wiring the control panel - FINALLY!! I did a fair number of searches on proper wiring color code for the different voltages and flavors of electrical current on this panel - AC hot, AC switched hot, AC hot from another source, neutral, ground, DC, DC common, 120/240 single phase, three phase, etc. - and I'm here to tell you there are many, many different 'standards' depending on the type of panel, industry, environment, and lots of other variables. So I did the best I could for code, meaning I kept searching until I found one that closely matched the wire colors I had on hand and then modified 'the code' to fit the exact colors I had on hand. 

So yes, to those who may want to send me their version of 'proper', I am aware a small portion of what I've done may not be perfect so I can post the photos in B&W if that's better... 

Somewhere under all this is a table saw that hasn't been used in a couple of weeks because it has become an electrical workbench - 








Probably a little past half finished; ignore the temporary ties but I needed to keep some of these sort of grouped for running the other wires. The AC hot wires are 14 AWG, the DC and control wires are 18 AWG, and the wire ends have been tinned where they go into the C25S board on the ESS -


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You're a better man than I will ever be doing this yourself. Feel proud when it all comes together.

HJ

HJ Says -- buy em assembled and have the right plug ready when it arrives.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> You're a better man than I will ever be doing this yourself. Feel proud when it all comes together.
> 
> HJ
> 
> HJ Says -- buy em assembled and have the right plug ready when it arrives.


LOL! I don't think that's necessarily true but I appreciate the sentiment. And your approach, HJ, is often a better way, certainly _*quicker *_than my approach!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

After getting all the wiring completed for power on the panel it was time to test and see if all was good. Obviously there is still a lot to do; still have to wire the stepper motors, proximity sensors, fans, etc. but at this point I needed to know that my latching circuit held the contactor closed and that all the power supplies were at the right voltage and that the stepper drivers and ESS powered up ok.

So rather than just tell you that it worked I videoed the first power up so if something blew either I or the investigators could go back and see what happened (really was the first, no 'pre-test' before the video). Since the video I have adjusted all the power supplies to their correct voltage.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Yet one step closer to that first project!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mike,

He's not going to want to get it dirty. He'll just turn it on and watch the lights blink and motors hum.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Mike,
> 
> He's not going to want to get it dirty. He'll just turn it on and watch the lights blink and motors hum.
> 
> HJ


Have you been listening to my wife? She saw me pushing the gantry to a different position one evening and said, 'Didn't you get motors for that...?' I love her humor!! :haha:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, I finally made it to the switches for the door of the enclosure so I took my CorelDRAW file and headed over to my favorite laser shop, Bud's Trophy Case in Bossier City. They do excellent work and are so easy to work with - it's always a fun visit! I needed three switch plates cut and one label for the spindle hour meter. It took all of 10 minutes from loading the file to holding the finished items in my hand. There are a lot more things I could add to the door but for now this will work just fine. 

If you've never seen a laser running then you'll enjoy the short video.

Next will be mounting the door and then wiring the switches. More later!!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I spent all morning tilling up the flower beds and then early afternoon doing some video editing for a friend starting his YouTube channel with a song he performed; not so much time on the CNC build. But the EMI filters came in so I did manage to get those mounted and the load side wired. The upper filter is 120V and the lower filter is 240V. Everything will be labeled when I finish the wiring. Still have to mount the panel into the enclosure and wire the steppers, spindle, water pump, fans, etc.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I ran some ground wires on the panel, set the panel into the enclosure (still need to bolt it to the enclosure cabinet, hope I don't forget that little step), finalized how I am going to run the shielded cable to the stepper drivers, and managed to get the Z axis cable run before shutting down tonight. The biggest thing accomplished today was getting with the Hitachi dealer technician to verify the shielded cable connections to the VFD to take advantage of Modbus for controlling the spindle.

More to come - thanks for following along!
David

Stepper driver end of the cable - 








Connector end with shrink wrapped protection - 








Cable run from side panel to Z axis stepper driver; the shield clamp is homemade from a 4-fuse block but works great to provide ground for the shield. I still need to run a bunch more of these cables/connectors for the other drivers and the proximity sensors, water pump, fans, etc. -


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I really like how anal-litic you are...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> I really like how anal-litic you are...


LOL! And so OCD at times that I call it CDO because the order is correct that way...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

He's got my attention. No way would I have done all that (or been able to) to get into this. Rick's garage would have been done before I ever finished something like this. 

Makes me feel like a wimp cause all I had to do was put a plug on the end of a 220 and mount a power strip. But I also had to make sure there was juice running to them. That's got to count for something.

HJ

I think Dave's one of these guys that gets more satisfaction making things, rather than using them. Gotta admire that.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> He's got my attention. No way would I have done all that (or been able to) to get into this. Rick's garage would have been done before I ever finished something like this.
> 
> Makes me feel like a wimp cause all I had to do was put a plug on the end of a 220 and mount a power strip. But I also had to make sure there was juice running to them. That's got to count for something.
> 
> ...


The journey is often as enjoyable as the destination, sometimes more so... 

My friends pick on me and frequently ask if I am actually building acoustic guitars or just fixtures, forms, and templates to build acoustic guitars. But I *LIKE* building fixtures, forms, and templates... LOL!


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I know people that spend more time building jigs and storage for their shop than making actual projects, but they have a jig for everything they want to do and a place to store it when finished.

Speaking of jigs I need to make a new sled for my table saw. AND CNC about 15 different setup pieces for the new sled. And I'll need a storage box for the sled and the setup pieces so they are organized. Now where do I store the new box, maybe I need a new cabinet.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mike,

You got any plans for a sled?

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Yes it is for cutting pieces for segmented turning. The set up pieces are angle wedges to set the fences up quickly the cut the correct angles for a certain number of pieces to form a disk. Wedgie sled!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> He's got my attention. No way would I have done all that (or been able to) to get into this. Rick's garage would have been done before I ever finished something like this.


Ouch ! :lol:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I got to the point where I could run the stepper motor cables to the stepper drivers, or at least from the 5-pin connectors on the enclosure to the drivers. As you can imagine this took a while because each wire end had to be properly tinned to ensure a good solder joint on the connector terminal, then placement with shrink wrap tubing in the small area of the connector, then run to the stepper driver with part of the insulation removed for the makeshift shield clamp for grounding. Anyway, it was a lot of tedious steps but was also a blast to do! I've said it before but until the wiring is complete and tested I won't clean up the grouping and tying of the wires, so they just have temporary ties in place right now. 

You'll notice the top connector has green shrink wrap tubing and that's because that is the A rotary axis that will come later. I figured it was much easier to run the cable and do all the soldering now while I was in that mode. Oh, the other reason the shrink wrap is green is because I ran out of the correct size of black but my justification satisfies my OCD nature... LOL!

Next in line will be the proximity sensors and those will be done the same way as these stepper motor cables.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It was time to begin running wires from the door panel switches to the main panel in the enclosure so I ran a few and then tested to see how they would react when the door is opened and closed. The wires will be encapsulated in black plastic mesh that should adequately protect them from rubbing anything. I don't plan on opening the door often, though, so it's probably not as critical as some other pieces of the puzzle.

Here's a quick shot of the enclosure with the door attached and a couple of switches wired to the EMI filters - 








And here's a short but high action video of me closing the door - exciting stuff!!


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Simple test to do up front, but has bitten many people after the fact when not done. DAMHIKT
Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't get to spend much time on the build today but did manage to get the bottom fan mounted. Also, a new 8-channel relay board came in so now I need to figure out where and how I'll mount that, may have to pull the panel back out to keep from getting shavings inside the box and next to conductors - I don't want any surprises when I power this up for real!

Bottom of the enclosure, fan guard, I'll probably build a small frame to put a finer filter over the inlet. This screen will not stop dust - 








Looking at it from the inside, again I still am not finished with the wiring so lots of loose wires in there -


----------



## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It only took about 20 minutes to disconnect everything and get the panel out so it wasn't too bad at all. I'm really glad I took it out to drill and tap the holes; this would have been a mess inside the box. I shot a short video showing the testing of the 8-channel board and one proximity sensor. Now I have to build a bracket for the 4-channel board and make sure it's out of the way of everything else. 

Using my analog meter, to me anyway, is so much easier to see open/close for continuity because the needle swing is just very obvious. With a digital meter I have to take my eyes off of what I'm working on and wait to see where the digits end up after a second but with my peripheral vision I can see the needle swing on the analog meter.

Anyway, now I have to finish the 4-channel relay bracket and then mount this back inside the box and then keep plugging away.


----------



## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It's been a couple of days since I posted my progress on the build but I haven't been idle, not even close. I just didn't want to bore y'all with small steps so here's a significant advance in progress - all stepper and proximity panel mount connectors are complete! If you've never done this I can tell you it takes a while, especially if you plan on doing it neatly and with attention to detail and consistency. Even if you do this all the time it still takes a while. I think the bread wrapper twist ties are a nice touch but when I finally get the wiring finished I'll go with something more traditional like nylon tie wraps.

Steppers on the left, proximity on the right (upper and lower when the enclosure is mounted) - 








Outside of the enclosure, still have a few left to do - 








Lights off in the shop and powered up - all looks good at this point!


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Looks good! It can take awhile to get all this done, but it will be worth the extra effort when you are done.
Now, get working on the exterior wiring so we can see these thing run! :smile:

Dave


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> Looks good! It can take awhile to get all this done, but it will be worth the extra effort when you are done.
> Now, get working on the exterior wiring so we can see these thing run! :smile:
> 
> Dave


I am definitely ready, Dave!!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought with all the soldering I'm doing on this CNC build and have done through the years, coupled with some friends who've told me they have issues with soldering, that I would do a Public Service Video. Disclaimer - I am not claiming to be an expert or in any way 'the' soldering guru nor have I covered every facet of soldering but I have been doing a good job at it for over 40 years so with that out of the way, here's my slightly over 9 minute video. I hope this helps any who may have issues with this little task. Kudos to you for watching the entire video!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I shot a quick video tonight testing the fans and components powered up - sounds cool to me!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That sounds cool David (pun intended) :grin:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> That sounds cool David (pun intended) :grin:


Thanks, Rick! I started to say that but it sounded corny when I said it - sounds better coming from you :wink:

++++++++++++++++++++++++

I thought it would be good to see how much current draw I had before connecting the stepper motors. Everything is now wired inside the panel except the VFD and connections for the E-Stop switches. Current draw at this point is about 0.5 amp and after 10 minutes of running everything was cool inside the box (as I expected it to be).

The E-Stop switch connections will be next and then the VFD. I'm debating whether to pull the stepper motors off the machine and bench test them all at once. I'll probably do that because I mounted them just to make sure everything worked correctly for rack & pinion tension and that everything lined up for the mounting. They all need to come back off so I can use thread lock on them anyway so I'll probably bench test them. That will be a good opportunity to begin setting up the ESS and Mach4.

Here's the short video of testing the current draw -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I've gotta say I had no idea there was this much work involved for the electronics . If the day ever comes I suspect I'll take the easy way out and go with the pre wired option lol .

But I must say you learn a heck of a lot more doing it your way . May even provide a better understanding when it comes to trouble shooting in the future


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

David,

Looking good so far. The rest should go fast enough you'll be test cutting in no time.

You need to get this done before Christmas so you can make presents!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> David,
> 
> Looking good so far. The rest should go fast enough you'll be test cutting in no time.
> 
> You need to get this done before Christmas so you can make presents!


Ain't that the truth!! I already have a couple of dozen ideas for things that would make very good Christmas presents. I wonder how long it will take me to get the first one finished...? :|


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I had a little time tonight after church to begin cleaning up the wiring and started with the door, hopefully I'll get the rest of it tomorrow. The incoming power lines to the switch and ground are temporary and will be similarly secured when the time comes to run those lines.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, it didn't take long for me to decide the first cleaning up of wiring on the door wasn't up to par, so I redid it this morning. I think this looks much better and doesn't have the couple of wires hanging loosely around the switches. One thing I did was to replace the connectors on the start button with right angle versions so they don't stick so far down into the enclosure when the door is closed. They weren't in danger of hanging on anything but I just didn't care for the way they looked. Also, I cleaned up the wiring on the panel so except for the 240V and VFD it looks like the wiring is complete. 

Just for curiosity I powered this up and let it run almost two hours so I could check the temperature of components and there's wasn't enough rise in temp to even notice - about 2° in some places. I'm certain this will change when I connect stepper motors and the spindle to the VFD, though.

Improved door wiring - 








Completed wiring except for 240V and VFD -


----------



## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

My plan was to use a 5-pin connector for the spindle cable so that if I needed to disconnect it then it would be easy. As I began to prepare for doing that this evening I quickly got to the point where I no longer liked that solution for several reasons: 1) lots of extra work trying to make that large cable fit in the tiny 5-pin connector (which is actually too small - the aviation connectors are just right for 18 AWG wire and this is 14 AWG), 2) extra opportunity for noise to enter the picture, and 3) I planned to use the 5-pin connector in the event I need to disconnect the spindle from the enclosure. 

The likelihood that I'll need to disconnect the spindle often is low so if I have to then I'll undo the connections at the VFD or on the connector at the spindle.

Fortunately I didn't have to remove anything to enlarge the hole. It was already drilled 5/8" for the aviation connector so I just centered my Greenlee punch and made a larger hole. In the end I think this will work much better.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Okay keep going you're getting there!

By the way thanks for posting the link in your signature for your church's music, have it bookmarked.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Okay keep going you're getting there!
> 
> By the way thanks for posting the link in your signature for your church's music, have it bookmarked.


Thanks, Mike! We have a blast playing and will soon be doing some videos from our coffee room at church. These will be all acoustic and in a small setting so maybe we can get a better sound.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I had originally planned to pull the motors off and just hook the leads directly into the drivers for testing but decided instead to go ahead and make up the cables with connectors and that way I can test everything – electronics, system, software, motors, and my cables. I’ll still pull the motors off for bench testing but now I’ll be using the actual cables to which they’ll be connected (I have to pull the motors off anyway to put thread lock on the mounting bolts). At the pace I work and as detailed and OCD as I am that means most of the day soldering and shrink wrapping connections but it has to be done anyway so might as well be now.

120' of 18/4 shielded cable cut and ready for connectors and soldering onto motor/sensor lead wires (I borrowed the kitchen floor for measuring) -


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

David,

Where did you get your 18-4 shielded cable?

Thanks


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> David,
> 
> Where did you get your 18-4 shielded cable?
> 
> Thanks


Dave, I got lucky! I called a friend in the home security business and he gave me a local guy in the same business who had tons of wire in his warehouse. I went to see him and said I needed about 75' (I wasn't thinking about the proximity sensors at the time) and he found a box of 18/4 shielded cable left over from a job he did. I asked how much was left and he didn't know but was certain it was over 75', so he said $20 was enough because he had no further use for it. When I got home I checked and it was 172' - not too bad for $20!!


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

difalkner said:


> Dave, I got lucky! I called a friend in the home security business and he gave me a local guy in the same business who had tons of wire in his warehouse. I went to see him and said I needed about 75' (I wasn't thinking about the proximity sensors at the time) and he found a box of 18/4 shielded cable left over from a job he did. I asked how much was left and he didn't know but was certain it was over 75', so he said $20 was enough because he had no further use for it. When I got home I checked and it was 172' - not too bad for $20!!


That is lucky. Hopefully it has lots of strands in it to take all the flexing they are going to get.

Dave


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> That is lucky. Hopefully it has lots of strands in it to take all the flexing they are going to get.
> 
> Dave


It's 7 strand. I've seen more flexible and less, this is sort of in between I guess. Seems flexible enough but we'll see in due time.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I've been making up cables for a good part of the afternoon but started by mounting the enclosure on the stand so I could get the proper lengths of the stepper and proximity cables. So the enclosure is mounted temporarily but will come off later so I can configure the VFD, the Ethernet SmoothStepper, and Mach4. It'll be so much easier to program the VFD with it on the bench (table saw) instead of having to squat down and manage this.

Getting closer -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , if you turned that housing 90 degrees , would it fit in between the upper and lower studs ?
It could be flush mounted in that case . (Pun intended )


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , if you turned that housing 90 degrees , would it fit in between the upper and lower studs ?
> It could be flush mounted in that case . (Pun intended )


It won't quite fit, Rick. I tried that when it came in. Besides, I'd have to rewire everything because the electricity would be flowing 90° out of phase... :surprise:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, it was a LOT of work to arrive at this point of completing the stepper motor and proximity sensor connectors but I managed to finish this in one day - fast for me! Lots of soldering and shrink wrapping; tomorrow I'll double check each connector for continuity to the end of the cable and to the drivers and relays on the inside of the cabinet. It'll never be easier than now to fix something that isn't making good contact.

Stepper motors, red; Proximity sensors, blue -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, like so many other times in the shop I started out intending to test all of the cables I made up yesterday but instead ran the power lines so I could test the 240V side of the electrical system. While I had the enclosure mounted on the stand I measured for the 120V cord and cut that because I have 120V on my test bench for power but left the long remaining cord for running over to the 240V plug on the wall. I'll trim that to the proper length when I have everything mounted on the machine.

This doesn't look like much progress but it took a while to get the cords run correctly inside the box such that nothing hit or rubbed when the door opens or closes. Either way the cords needed to be run but I still need to test the cables for continuity and shorts, of which I don't really think there are any, and then connect the stepper motors and proximity sensors for testing and initial setup. We have band practice after church tonight so I probably won't get a chance to do much more when I get home.

Completed wiring on door - 








Powered up and VFD on - 








VFD closeup -


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

So close!! Sleep is overrated at this point.

Dave


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> So close!! Sleep is overrated at this point.
> 
> Dave


You are right Dave he could come home from church and then spend the night running the rest of the wire and doing all of the testing before it's time for breakfast.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> So close!! Sleep is overrated at this point.
> 
> Dave





MEBCWD said:


> You are right Dave he could come home from church and then spend the night running the rest of the wire and doing all of the testing before it's time for breakfast.


LOL! Just got home and headed to the shop; may not sleep for a while. :nerd:

Fixin' to post another short video, though.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Short video of powering up with both 120V and 240V –


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> It won't quite fit, Rick. I tried that when it came in. Besides, I'd have to rewire everything because the electricity would be flowing 90° out of phase... :surprise:


Yikes , I never even considered the out of phase issue


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

In checking my cables I found a problem with the very first one I tested - but it wasn't the cable. Rather, it was the connector on the side of the box. I had already checked these when I put them in and before I cleaned up the wiring inside the box. But it had a broken solder joint and I just couldn't see how this would have happened until I fixed it and put the connector back in; turns out I probably broke it loose with the 3/4" open end wrench when I tightened all of these down after cleaning up the wiring. Because it's so tight right in that area I noticed that the wrench, if I'm not careful, will apply pressure to the terminals. Fortunately it wasn't that difficult to remove and repair and get back into place, tightening carefully this time...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It's about time this looked different!! I'm ready to begin programming the ESS and connecting stepper motors and proximity sensors for testing and setup. I'll start fresh tomorrow and see how far I get before reaching out to someone for assistance although several people have already sent me files to get me started and that's a great big help!

The photo on the screen is one I took of Tenaya Lake in Yosemite NP in 2009 -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , in the past I have used clear heat shrink on my soldered connections to make them more reliable


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , in the past I have used clear heat shrink on my soldered connections to make them more reliable


Hmmm, never thought about clear. Seems like a good idea, Rick. Where this broken connection was I wouldn't have seen it even if it had no covering.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Finally labeled the side panel so I can put things in their proper place - can't tell the players without a program!! Now I need to figure out how I want to label the cables...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

^^ Wow that looks pro David . You do some nice work , and I'm sure it's going to pay off in the end


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ^^ Wow that looks pro David . You do some nice work , and I'm sure it's going to pay off in the end


Thanks, Rick!!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Tomorrow I hope to get far enough in setting up Mach4 to be able to test the motors. Here's my 'bench' setup for testing -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The motors are spinning!! I ran the Roadrunner program that comes with Mach4 so these varied in how much they ran. You can see the tape is blurred on three of the motors; the Z axis motor wasn't moving when I took the shot. Current draw during this time was about 2 amps. I'm spinning motors but not moving anything so I expected it to be low. After 20 minutes of running the X axis motor, closest one in the photo, got up to 119°, the two Y axis motors made it to 100°, and the Z axis just made it to 90°. Video coming soon -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's the video of the motors spinning -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Neat stuff David


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Almost looks like the 2 y axis motors will need to be adjusted to sync, it may just be me trying to watch the rotation and missing some of the moves.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Almost looks like the 2 y axis motors will need to be adjusted to sync, it may just be me trying to watch the rotation and missing some of the moves.


I noticed that also, Mike, so I ran it again with both pieces of tape starting at 12 o'clock and stopped the program after a minute of running to check and they were both in sync. The true test will come in a day or two when I get everything mounted on the machine. Thanks for keeping a keen eye out!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MEBCWD said:


> Almost looks like the 2 y axis motors will need to be adjusted to sync, it may just be me trying to watch the rotation and missing some of the moves.


I'm assuming the Y-axis are facing each when attached to the gantry , and are rack and pinion , that's why there turning opposite directions to each other ? 
If they were on screws I could see a bit of a conflict


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I'm assuming the Y-axis are facing each when attached to the gantry , and are rack and pinion , that's why there turning opposite directions to each other ?
> If they were on screws I could see a bit of a conflict


Yes sir, that is correct. And I just guessed at the wiring for direction. When I get them on the machine I may have to swap the wires to run motors in the opposite direction. When I mount them I'll just jog each axis and want to see that ' *-* ' moves them toward me and ' *+* ' moves them away, on Z ' *-* ' should be down and ' *+* ' should be up.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Modbus and relay control wires on the VFD, programming is next -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I got the Hitachi WJ200-022sf VFD programmed and the cable connector soldered on so I could test the spindle and my programming. I left the cable long so it would reach all the way over to the enclosure but will trim it once I get the enclosure mounted. The spindle ran backward but since it is 3 phase all I have to do is swap any two wires and it will run in the other direction (which I did right after the initial test). 

As I expected the spindle is very quiet; matter of fact the fan on the VFD was louder than the spindle. I only ran the spindle at 6,000 RPM for a few seconds because I don't have water lines connected yet. But I'm pleased with this and now I can look at programming the logic controls in the VFD for activating other relays on the 4-channel relay board (the one mounted on an angle).


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Loving the fact that the spindle is that quite ! Can't wait to see your new toy in action making some saw dust


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Loving the fact that the spindle is that quiet ! Can't wait to see your new toy in action making some saw dust


Yes, Rick, that's one reason I got the water cooled spindle. The other reason is that I can run it at slow speeds, if and when necessary, and know that it is being cooled. An air cooled spindle needs to spin up north of 12,000 RPM to stay cool and they're noisy. 

I wanted to video the spindle and capture the noise it generates but even the fans in my enclosure are louder. It might be possible to capture the sound with the good Rode mic on my camera if I can get close enough and before I mount the enclosure onto the stand. Of course, all of that 'quiet' goes away as soon as the bit hits the wood or aluminum, whatever I'm cutting, and when I run the DC. But at least the spindle won't be adding to the noise in the shop.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It was time to mount the enclosure to the stand so I disconnected the spindle cable, wrapped up the power cords, unplugged the motors and sensors, and carried it over to mount. This thing must weigh 60 to 70 pounds! A normal man would have difficulty with this but my friends say I'm not in that category... LOL!

The holes were predrilled so mounting should be easy except for handling the weight and trying to line up screws so I just put some boards down and set the enclosure on those. Got the first screw in the upper left corner very quickly so I could let go and then had an 'uh oh' moment. 

I drew a very detailed and well thought out set of plans for this and had everything measured, calculated, and double-checked so I knew everything was going to fit and I would have access to everything required (pardon me while I pat myself on the back...). However, I didn't follow those plans (pardon me while I kick myself in the rear!!). 

When I laid out the location for the side exhaust fan in the upper right of the enclosure I wanted it as high as I could mount it and still have access to the bolt in the upper right corner. No problem, I set the location accordingly and moved on. But a week later when I actually began to cut the holes for the fan I pondered why it was 1.5" from the top and not 1". So I drilled all the holes and mounted it at 1" from the top so it would be just a little higher to exhaust an immeasurable increase of warm air. Yes, I'm anal like that - sorry.

Today I discovered why it was suppose to be 1.5" from the top; I can't get to the upper right corner bolt. For about 30 minutes I tried all sorts of tricks and techniques to get the bolt at least started but to no avail. I can't take the fan out without taking the VFD out. I'm thinking that if I take the VFD out I can get to it ok and it is, after all, very easy to take out. I can probably take the VFD out, attach the bolt, and put the VFD back in place in less than the 30 minutes I wasted trying to 'stubborn' my way through it. I'm just glad my wife wasn't here at the time because she would have said from the start to take the VFD out and quit wasting time! LOL! The only thing is that every fastener in the enclosure is secured with thread lock and I didn't really want to disturb that but I guess I'll just put some more on.

On the stand - 
















Inaccessible bolt - it may appear as though a long extension would work but I assure you it will not even come close -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

15 minutes, start to finish with bolt in and VFD back in place; should've done that to start with! Actually, should have mounted the fan in the right place to start with but I digress...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Now you'll know for "next time"!!!!

HJ

Looking good - hate to get it all dusty


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Now you'll know for "next time"!!!!
> 
> HJ
> 
> Looking good - hate to get it all dusty


Dusty?? These get dusty?? Say it ain't so, John!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wrapping up a busy day, lots accomplished! After mounting the enclosure I remounted all the stepper motors. That meant putting thread locker on every set screw and mounting bolt, including the mount for the spindle, and on every fastener except the mounting bolts that go into nylon lock nuts. After I got the steppers mounted and properly tensioned I started running cables through the cable chains. Both of these tasks actually took quite a while but they're all run now and the only thing left to run are the water lines.

It's probably going to take just as long to clean up the lines and get them better organized and I still have to solder the leads on 4 stepper motors and 6 proximity sensors. Each will be covered in shrink tubing and carefully placed so as not to rub unnecessarily on anything else in the path but still allow for free movement.

Gotta' shut it down for the night, though. Not only because I have been at this since 7 this morning but now I have to clean up for a high school reunion we're going to in about an hour. Tomorrow we have a family reunion and that's going to take all day. So I won't get much done tomorrow.

Grounding the frame to the main ground lug in the enclosure and thus to earth ground - 








Steppers and sensors plugged into the enclosure - 








Running cables through the cable chains -


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

That bolt location looks like some of the stuff we worked on in the aero space industry. Goose-neck socket extension, special set of offset wrenches or a micro detent gear wrench or specially designed fasteners.

Dave don't worry about what John says they only get dusty if you get them finished and use them.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Dave don't worry about what John says they only get dusty if you get them finished and use them.


Whew! That's a relief, Mike. For a minute there I thought it was going to get dusty but looks like that's not going to happen. :wink:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Whew! That's a relief, Mike. For a minute there *I thought it was going to get dusty *but looks like that's not going to happen. :wink:


it will...
just like the end table that just sits there...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

We did the reunion trip and I had a few hours after we got home last night to solder the cables to the motor leads. There's a lot more to doing this (and doing it right) than meets the eye - lot of prep work and diligence to keep the solder joints staggered, provide a good mechanical connection before soldering, getting the shrink tubing in place, etc. but the connections are good so that's what matters.









3 down, one to go -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

IT'S ALIVE!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow David , seeing her run for the first time has gotta be a good feeling , especially with no glitches 

I'm sure liking the blue frame to , looks heavy duty . I'm assuming it's welded steel?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow David , seeing her run for the first time has gotta be a good feeling , especially with no glitches
> 
> I'm sure liking the blue frame to , looks heavy duty . I'm assuming it's welded steel?


It was pretty cool, Rick, to see it working and pieces moving like they were suppose to be doing. Yes, welded and stress relieved steel tubing, 4mm thick walls, powder coated, very rigid and very heavy - it was about 500 lbs. *before* I started mounting motors, cables, and other hardware.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Got some more wiring finished today, starting with one E-Stop and moving on to the proximity sensors. When I made the bracket for the E-Stop I drilled a hole where the center of the box would be so I could bring the wire in from the bottom to the inside of the box. Since I wanted to make certain nothing rubbed or cut the outer jacket I sized it for a grommet and while I had the cover off for wiring I thought I'd take a photo of that.









Finished E-Stop, bracket, and Y- proximity sensor - 








Y+ proximity - 








Making certain nothing moves or rubs through the outer jacket on the cabling -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well thanks for sharing this build with us David . I've been watching it closely , as this is a dream of mine someday . 
Its been very interesting seeing the progression of your router table . When the time comes I'm definitely going with a kit ,as I want to assemble it myself . The system that I'm looking at has a prewired box , so I'll be cheating a bit


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well thanks for sharing this build with us David . I've been watching it closely , as this is a dream of mine someday .
> Its been very interesting seeing the progression of your router table . When the time comes I'm definitely going with a kit ,as I want to assemble it myself . The system that I'm looking at has a prewired box , so I'll be cheating a bit


Not cheating at all, Rick. If I had gone with a turnkey solution or kit I'd probably be knee deep in wood chips by now! :nerd: I'm glad you've liked the build and I have appreciated your comments.

But it has been a blast designing, sourcing, assembling, and pushing the limit on this build. None of it has been really hard or ultra-high tech but it has required my attention and focus. I have had as much fun as one man can legally have doing all this and it's about to be over because I'll be stepping into the CAD/CAM and G-code world and most of that is going to be new to me.

Very soon I'll be adding a rotary axis so I'll be back on the build with that process but I won't start that until I have it working like I want for XYZ and flat pieces.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Busy day on sensors, including crushing one - ugh! The design locations for sensors on this frame/machine are less than desirable. I relocated the Y axis sensor positions and made some simple temporary brackets for the X axis sensors. However, the Z axis locations have the sensors pointing at the plastic end piece on the linear bearings. Now, if you have 8mm sensing distance proximity sensors then you might get away with this but mine are 4mm. And here's a little piece of info if you're shopping for sensors - the distances given are for steel. They're half the distance on aluminum. 

I had decided to cut some small pieces of cold rolled steel and attach to the aluminum so I could get my full sensing distance, including onto the plastic for the Z axis. I had set up the sensors for testing and the Z axis was nearly touching the plastic when it tripped but since I planned to add some steel it wasn't going to be an issue. Well, it wasn't until I accidentally jogged the Z axis up instead of down when it was about 1/2" away from the sensor - too far away to trip and just far enough away to fly into the sensor.

Here's the result - 








The jog rate was only 25% but that was enough to crush the sensor. Luckily I had another sensor although replacing one isn't what I started out to do today. So after that I made the steel pads to double my sensing distance and these give me much greater results. Ultimately I believe the sensors should be alongside the traveling carriage or component instead of directly in the path. That's probably how I'll redesign the mounts once I get finished with the build but I won't tackle that right now.

Steel pads and the new sensing distance -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The other task I completed today was to change out the spindle connector. I didn't care for the one that came with the spindle so I ordered an Amphenol and it arrived today. Getting the old connector off was a bear; finally had to take a punch and bust it up. The new connector went in without a hitch and is much more solid.

Old connector (I planned to shrink the tubing but decided instead to replace the connector so the heat shrink is just sitting there) - 
















New Amphenol connector -


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

This has gone beyond my comprehension. Hats off to you, Dave, for even knowing what you're doing.

HJ

Likes plug and play


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow that connector looks like it's much better quality


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

This is the best thread I have read in ages. 

I'm trying to learn a bit and confused on the sensor issue. "Well, it wasn't until I accidentally jogged the Z axis up instead of down when it was about 1/2" away from the sensor - too far away to trip and just far enough away to fly into the sensor." The position seems like it is the upper limit / home sensor. Was it not connected to the controller so that it got crushed before stopping the travel?

Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> This has gone beyond my comprehension. Hats off to you, Dave, for even knowing what you're doing.
> 
> HJ
> 
> Likes plug and play


Thanks, John!  It's really like anything else we might do; just one piece at a time. And as the crushed sensor indicates I don't always know what I'm doing! :surprise: 



RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow that connector looks like it's much better quality


I agree, Rick - far, far better. And it has screw terminals on both the plug and receptacle and they are much larger than the solder terminals in the old setup.











SteveMI said:


> This is the best thread I have read in ages.
> 
> I'm trying to learn a bit and confused on the sensor issue. "Well, it wasn't until I accidentally jogged the Z axis up instead of down when it was about 1/2" away from the sensor - too far away to trip and just far enough away to fly into the sensor." The position seems like it is the upper limit / home sensor. Was it not connected to the controller so that it got crushed before stopping the travel?
> 
> Steve.


Thanks, Steve! That means a lot! I've certainly enjoyed sharing the build and hope it's been informative. There's probably not a lot of new stuff happening here, at least relative to the CNC world, but maybe it's helped someone looking to do the same thing on their build.

To be honest, I am not quite certain how it happened. I had the sensor set and even though it was far too close to the plastic on the bearing block the carriage stopped every time I tested it. The software sort of locked up with the notice that the sensor was tripped and I debated whether to shut everything down and restart but once before I had used the 'Limit override' button to move off of a sensor and I'm thinking I may have done that this time. Even though it was about 1/2" away from the sensor it was still tripped. The issue is likely (i.e., certain, no doubt) operator error. 

For a short period I had the computer screen where I was looking away from the machine so on this time I used my left hand and turned my back on the computer screen to watch the carriage move. Because it went up instead of down I have no doubt I clicked the Z+ instead of Z- button. And because I was testing the sensing distance I had set the jog speed at 5% specifically so this sort of thing wouldn't happen. However, for this move I had set it to 25% to move it down a few inches because it takes forever at 5% so when it went up instead I'm thinking there's no way it could stop quickly enough to not crush the sensor. And if I had indeed hit the Limit override then it wasn't going to stop anyway.

So one item that has moved up on my plate is to relocate every sensor so they aren't in the direct path of a sensor-crushing moving part but rather parked safely to the side. That was on my plate anyway but it was down the list.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Ha!! Look what I found under all the CNC electronics stuff - a table saw!!









After I figured out how to turn it on and what it does I did a little woodworking; it's been a couple of months since that's happened in this woodshop. I made a shelf for the spindle water reservoir and added a much needed diagonal brace. I knew it was going to be needed but until I decided on the water reservoir size I couldn't put the brace in. As I expected it is now much, much stiffer in the Y direction. The tub for water reservoir is about 7.5 gallons capacity. The shelf is made with a couple of boards from the shipping pallet for the CNC frame.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It was time to run the water lines for the spindle and I needed to drop them through the cable tray down to the reservoir so I used a grommet to protect the lines. For about 5 seconds I considered running the lines over the edge but didn't like that.









Tonight I mounted the radiator, fan, and box with connectors for the pump and fan. The fan is 120Vac and the submersible pump is 12Vdc. The fan will use the top 3-pin connector and the pump will use the bottom 5-pin connector. Neither one needs this many wires but I wanted them different so down the road I wouldn't accidentally plug them into the wrong spot - it won't always be this easy to see down there. I mounted the radiator right over the reservoir so that if a slow leak starts the lid will contain a small amount of water. Also, if I need to drain the lines all I have to do is remove the lid and the radiator is right over the reservoir.

I'll connect the lines and wire the plugs tomorrow and then I can test the spindle fittings and lines.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Today I completed the water cooling system for lines and wiring and ran it for testing - all is good! However, not without some hiccups along the way. When I first tried to run the pump nothing happened. I know it works because I tested it, even did a video of me spraying water in the kitchen. So I started troubleshooting and quickly discovered that I had wired the relay inside the enclosure for 5V instead of 12V. That meant I had to do some rewiring with the enclosure on the stand and that's a whole lot more difficult than doing it on the bench. 

After finding a spot to grab 12V I ran the wire to the common side of the relay and with all the confidence in the world I fired it back up, expecting the pump to run. Nothing, nada, zilch... The pump plugs into a 5-pin connector and I had checked continuity after making the cable and soldering everything so I knew that was good. Finally, after about 20 L O N G minutes of searching for broken solder joints, wires, checking polarity, etc. I decided to check the plug on the pump again. For some reason I had soldered the two leads to pins 4 & 5 instead of pins 1 & 2 (like the receptacle). What a dummy! Now it didn't matter which two pins I used but you'd think it would be a good idea to use the same pins on the receptacle and plug - right?! Right! Sometimes I wish I was smart instead of just good looking... ok, at this point in my life I'll take either one. LOL!

Anyway, here's the completed unit; the filter on the intake is for aquariums and it should stop anything 1/16" or larger. I intend to keep the lid on and monitor the water for sediment or trash so I'll add a better filter later if needed. The discharge hose is fastened to the lid so I can see water flowing out and I'll probably add a flow indicator later. The blue fittings on the pump are anodized aluminum, the capacity of the reservoir is 7.5 gallons, and the tubing is silicone with a continuous use temperature range: -60 ℃ ~ 200 ℃ - I expect to be operating the spindle well inside that range!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Here's a video testing the cooling system -


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Now I'm really glad I went with the air cooled spindle.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Now I'm really glad I went with the air cooled spindle.
> 
> HJ


Yeah, but you'll never know if you're leaking air. I'll know in a heartbeat if I'm leaking water... :grin:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> Yeah, but you'll never know if you're leaking air. I'll know in a heartbeat if I'm leaking water... :grin:


I'll know - - it'll quit cutting right and burn up.

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Dave,

If you want to monitor the temperature of the water in the system you could use one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/CNZ-Thermome...76625663&sr=8-4&keywords=aquarium+thermometer


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Don't show him that, Mike. He'll have to get one, figure out how and where to mount everything, get labels made, test it, make another video. You'll add 2 more weeks to his serious dust making schedule.

Just kidding Dave.

HJ

FYI - wet sawdust is messy.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Now I'm really glad I went with the air cooled spindle.
> 
> HJ


My laser has an external water cooling system , which I think would have worked great for this application .
Would have been way less hassle and has a trigger in . Would have bumped the price up though as there around 800 bucks


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

To replace the spindle from the CNC maker would be $800. I can buy the same one from the supplier, Automation Technologies, in Chicago, for $300. About the same price as a good router, which is noisier, not variable speed, and will burn out faster.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Dave,
> 
> If you want to monitor the temperature of the water in the system you could use one of these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/CNZ-Thermome...76625663&sr=8-4&keywords=aquarium+thermometer


I like it!! Already got a place for it, label designed, additional time figured in for the install, testing against a known good laboratory grade thermometer, and video editing time allotted in my schedule - thanks, Mike!!



honesttjohn said:


> Don't show him that, Mike. He'll have to get one, figure out how and where to mount everything, get labels made, test it, make another video. You'll add 2 more weeks to his serious dust making schedule.
> 
> Just kidding Dave.
> 
> ...


Oh... 

Am I _*that *_predictable!!?? LOL! :grin:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> Am I _*that *_predictable!!?? LOL! :grin:


Yup!

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> My laser has an external water cooling system, which I think would have worked great for this application .
> Would have been way less hassle and has a trigger in. Would have bumped the price up though as they're around 800 bucks


Wow! That's WAY more than I spent and this wasn't really a hassle, just took a while to sort out how I wanted to run the lines. I think the total spend on the cooling system is around $75.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Wow! That's WAY more than I spent and this wasn't really a hassle, just took a while to sort out how I wanted to run the lines. I think the total spend on the cooling system is around $75.


Ya that's the price in Canada . Probably no more than $150 for you guys in the south


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ya that's the price in Canada . Probably no more than $150 for you guys in the south


Ah, didn't factor that in. Thanks, Rick!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

While I didn't really do anything on the CNC today I did do something needed for the CNC; I built a mobile cart for the computer. I don't have room to have a dedicated spot for a computer and related peripherals so a mobile cart was my only real option. This is narrow enough to fit between the table saw and CNC and also narrow enough to go against the wall at the front end of the CNC but it is wide enough to be stable. I can't mount anything to the wall at the front of the CNC even though that spot appears to be available because the attic stairway folds down right there so it's really not usable space, at least not for anything mounted permanently. 

I made this with some of the boards from the CNC shipping pallet and some MDF I had sitting around. The only thing I bought for this project are the HF casters and outlet strip. Both the Ethernet and Modbus cables are 15' long so I have a fair amount of travel available.

So here's my afternoon project (for me to start and finish a project in one day is close to miraculous!!) -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nice job on the cart Dave . I did something similar for my laser engravers computer .
Was debating to mount an arm off the lasers cabinet next time to hold a laptop . Used a desktop computer last time so it needed more real estate with the separate monitor and keyboard .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks, Rick! It just points out to me how tight my real estate is in the shop. It's a good thing I don't build anything large!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I drained the water out of the system and am preparing for distilled water and the RV antifreeze but thought I'd mark the lines so the pump will know which way the water flows when I turn it back on...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

When the machine came in it was missing a few links in the cable chain and those arrived today so I was able to complete the cable run on the gantry. I need to get the correct bolt and then decide how I'll secure the cables and water lines but at least now the cable chain is in place.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I set up the homing based on what I've read and seen online but I'm not certain I have this correct. Many machines I've seen move very quickly toward home and when they approach the sensors they slow down. The way I have it set it's just slow across the board. It's ok if I jog it to a couple of inches away from home but if it has a long way to travel I might as well pack a lunch. So... I wonder what I have not yet set or if I'm just mistaken on how it is suppose to act.

Homing Speed is set to 20% but it was 5% so it is much faster now but not sure it's correct.








Here's a short video of the homing -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

It's alive!!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mine homes faster than it cuts.
Pretty quick.

Congrats on getting it to move.

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I notice they say Feed rates of 500 in/min+ and rapids are 1200 in/min+ for the NEMA 34 steppers. At 20% Home speed I would think it would be running at least 100 in/min.

There must be another setting for max feeds and rapids!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> I notice they say Feed rates of 500 in/min+ and rapids are 1200 in/min+ for the NEMA 34 steppers. At 20% Home speed I would think it would be running at least 100 in/min.
> 
> There must be another setting for max feeds and rapids!


Right now I have it set to 750 with acceleration at 75. Nate at FLA told me I could easily set it to 1200 but when I ran it yesterday about 30" on the Y axis at 100% it was downright scary!


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

It's hard to believe feed rates of 500 in/min, I bet you can break bits easily at that speed. Of course I'm use to CNC Sharks.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

MEBCWD said:


> It's hard to believe feed rates of 500 in/min, I bet you can break bits easily at that speed. Of course I'm use to CNC Sharks.


Cutting speeds are mainly limited by router/spindle horsepower, chip load of the bits and how rigid the gantry is. 

The Shark HQ outside Toledo is only 45 minutes from me and I have seen their demo several times. He usually demos at 200 ipm, but shallow passes with a Bosch Colt.

With bits designed for it, I cut 3/4" ply at 400 ipm with 4 hp Shopbot. Also, 3/8" passes on solid wood at 200 ipm with the right bit. Whether a scroll saw, band saw, router bit or table saw, the real trick is to feed up to the chipload of the blade so there is no real pushing of the material. 

Steve.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I was talking about the looseness in the CNC Shark construction because it limits how fast you can go and still get usable parts. I did some major modifications to my HD 1 to get as much of the slop out of it as possible so I could get decent cuts out of it.

Watching this build makes me want to upgrade!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I was talking about rapids, of course. I'm not anticipating doing any cutting at those speeds. That would be cool, though!


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Actually the 400 ipm cutting has gotten to be just a small bit below scary for me. First time was nerve wracking.

My concern with maximum speed rapids is that when it starts / stops to move to the next operation it is putting the maximum strain on the structure. The inertia of the router/spindle moving has to go somewhere. It takes force to start or stop the movement. In a car or truck the tires can lose traction to make up for this, but in a CNC it is taken up in the mechanics.

Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

SteveMI said:


> Actually the 400 ipm cutting has gotten to be just a small bit below scary for me. First time was nerve wracking.
> 
> My concern with maximum speed rapids is that when it starts / stops to move to the next operation it is putting the maximum strain on the structure. The inertia of the router/spindle moving has to go somewhere. It takes force to start or stop the movement. In a car or truck the tires can lose traction to make up for this, but in a CNC it is taken up in the mechanics.
> 
> Steve.


I well understand the inertia potential of the machine and I'm right there with you, Steve. The gantry on this weighs 125 lbs. and these NEMA 34 motors get it moving seemingly without the slightest bit of effort but if I set it to 100% and jog on the Y axis there is *no doubt* something serious is happening! And I 'only' have the motors set to 750 ipm max in the configuration, not anywhere close to the potential top speed which is 1200 ipm on this machine. It can actually go much higher than 1200 but why would you...??


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I set up to do a little calibrating and found the machine was out more than I thought it would be. The first test on the Y axis was 0.014" out in one inch. In the full travel of the Y axis, 50", that is almost 3/4" off (0.700")! So I used a dial indicator and did a little tweaking to the motor configuration and the Counts per Unit in Mach4. Now when I tell it to move an inch it moves an inch - poifect!! The only drawback is that the DRO on the screen in Mach4 is off by 0.0002" which isn't very much at all but I just don't see why it isn't 0.0000".

Here's a video to better show what I'm seeing -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

If you watched the previous video you probably noticed that I wasn't satisfied with the slight error in accuracy. So, I changed my methodology and process and now it is dead on and I'm good with dead on. I wrote a spreadsheet to use the current motor settings, take the error in accuracy, and then calculate new motor settings. Each time I ran it the errors became smaller and the accuracy got better so after running it about 5 times it is now dead on.

Here's the new process and video -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

So David , with the same method , did you get the X and Y axis perfect too?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> So David , with the same method , did you get the X and Y axis perfect too?


Yes, Rick, but it took a while. I probably spent 3 hours total today on calibrating but to me that's highly important. No sense having a machine with these capabilities and not having a clue how far it's gonna move when you tell it to go 5".

Pursuant to that I did the following testing - 

After all the calibrations for accuracy I put the machine to a field test for about 10 minutes. I used simple G-code to feed at 300 ipm and then to various positions all over the machine. About 90% of the time it was spot on the number I put in the parameters and the other 10% it ended up on xx.9999" and I don't think I'll get it any better than that. I also picked up some reusable tie straps from HF so I could clean up the cabling yet still have the ability to redo something if necessary.

Machine calibration testing -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well your one smart cookie David , as it's pretty much greek to me . That's one awesome build you did there ,and I'll bet your smiling ear to ear 

Going back to the beginning. I'm sure if I ordered a heavy duty frame like that , it would arrive warped . But that's one feature I like that on yours, as it's such a solid base to start with .
I believe the one I was looking at was all aluminum including the frame work.
I do know a very good welder here in town (teaches welding at the college also ) , and maybe it would be worth building the base out of steel .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well you're one smart cookie David, as it's pretty much greek to me. That's one awesome build you did there, and I'll bet you're smiling ear to ear
> 
> Going back to the beginning. I'm sure if I ordered a heavy duty frame like that, it would arrive warped. But that's one feature I like that on yours, as it's such a solid base to start with.
> I believe the one I was looking at was all aluminum including the frame work.
> I do know a very good welder here in town (teaches welding at the college also ), and maybe it would be worth building the base out of steel.


Thanks, Rick! I had several people ask why I didn't build the stand out of steel and my simple reply is that 'I am a woodworker...' :wink:

The guy who got the second of these machines, in West Virginia, is building steel stands to go along with these machines and they'll probably be offered on the FLA web site.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , it's probably at the beginning if I read threw it again , but I forgot what the maximum size of wood is you can cut? 
I can't get over the gantry , with all the water cooling and the spindle mounted , it sure looks intimidating lol


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , it's probably at the beginning if I read threw it again , but I forgot what the maximum size of wood is you can cut?
> I can't get over the gantry , with all the water cooling and the spindle mounted , it sure looks intimidating lol


Its proper name is Saturn 2x4 with 10" Z travel but the actual cutting size is 26" x 50" with 12" Z travel. So if I have something 2x4 I can actually get all the way around the perimeter.

I agree on the gantry; the empty weight is 125 lbs. but with the spindle, stepper motors, cabling, water, etc. my best guess is over 160 lbs. (spindle is just under 20 lbs., steppers are 5 lbs. each).


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

After calibrating I thought it would be good to run some very simple patterns in the X and Y directions, no cutting so Z isn't involved. There's not much to this but it does show me that the machine is smooth and does what I asked it to do, at least cutting air anyway. This is a short video, about 42 seconds, so you won't be bored very long.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David it looks like it's working as planned 
I just love watching them for some reason . You've sure done one hell of a job here !


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David it looks like it's working as planned
> I just love watching them for some reason . You've sure done one hell of a job here !


That's why I'm doing these little short videos, Rick - so you can watch them! :grin:

I'm just like a kid with a new toy and seeing what all it can do. It's cool to type in a few simple commands and see the machine you just built doing what it's suppose to do. Now I need to get the spoil board down and see how many bits I can break... :wink:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I'd be elated to have built something that cool. I'm happy to see it works so well right off the hop . But it certainly wasn't by accident , as you did an impressive job on this build IMO . 
And it's probably the heaviest dutyest mother of all cnc router tables


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

To that end, Rick, I walked into the shop this morning and was greeted by this view and I just thought to myself, 'This is one *BAD *looking machine!' I hope I can do it justice when I start running it. :smile:


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I don't care how long you run a CNC you still find yourself watching every move when it is cutting. Then 5 minutes later you remember what you were going to do while it cuts out parts for the next build.

One step closer to cutting your first test piece.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> I don't care how long you run a CNC you still find yourself watching every move when it is cutting. Then 5 minutes later you remember what you were going to do while it cuts out parts for the next build.
> 
> One step closer to cutting your first test piece.


Mike, I keep telling myself (and friends and wife...) that while the CNC is doing its thing I'll be doing something else in the shop. I'm not certain that will *EVER *happen but I'd like to think it can.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Mike, I keep telling myself (and friends and wife...) that while the CNC is doing its thing I'll be doing something else in the shop. I'm not certain that will *EVER *happen but I'd like to think it can.


At first it will be hard to overcome the temptation to pull your shop stool up to the CNC and just sit and watch. Even after you get to the point that you can clamp down a project and work on something else you will find yourself watching every move. It does help if your dust boot does not allow you to see the bit but you will still watch every move and imagine what is happening behind the boot.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

That's kinda what I expected, Mike. Right now I don't have a dust boot so I'll be holding the DC hose as I cut until I make a dust boot, so I know I'll be standing right there watching every move. I did think ahead enough that my second E-stop button is on a very long cable and I can take it over to the table saw, drum sander, etc. and still be able to stop the CNC if I see/hear something going haywire.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Be sure and have your CNC frame grounded if following with a dust collector. Static discharge can mess up a cut. I know from experience.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes sir, grounded as good as I can get it. And I've already learned how static discharge can affect the machine. I bought some of those cheap HF foam mats to stand on at the front of the machine and while at the computer since I've been spending a lot of time there. Well, they create static electricity like nobody's business! I was homing the machine, touched some bare metal and felt the pop, and it stopped the homing process. At first I thought it was a coincidence so I started the homing again and dragged my feet on the mat and then walked over to the table saw, also grounded to the same panel. When I touched the table saw the CNC stopped. The HF mats are now history!

Here's the grounding of the frame to the star point ground in the panel -


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

You might also consider running a separate ground wire to a ground rod just outside the shop. I've seen Sharks that had problems even after a ground wire was run to the control box. A separate ground run to a ground rod solved the problem.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I grounded mine to a nearby outlet. Seems to be working ok.

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Mine is grounded to the outlet below the sub-panel I put in and that sub-panel is grounded to the ground rod on the other side of the wall, so that's about as direct as I can get without poking a new hole in the wall.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I've been away for a few days but only because I had to rebuild my main graphics computer, which is also the same computer I use for posting on forums and for e-mail. But I have not been idle, rather I've managed to spend countless hours on Fusion 360 tutorial videos just so I could cut four pockets on the spoil board. This is cutting edge stuff!! LOL!

Anyway, here's the video -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David that spindle is incredibly quiet, never expected that . Just wow at watching your machine run !


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David that spindle is incredibly quiet, never expected that . Just wow at watching your machine run !


Thanks, Rick!

Water cooled may be a bit more of a pain to set up but the upside is the extremely low noise. Plus it can run slow and stay cool whereas air cooled has to be going about 12k to get effective cooling. 

When I get the nerve up to do so I'll run a program at full speed. That was at 25% if I recall correctly. I have the top speed limited to 750 ipm but I can push it to 1200 ipm. I've toyed with jogging it at 750 ipm and it's not only amazing but also downright scary! :surprise:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I believe I've heard breaking a bit off the hop is quite a typical experience . I read a suggestion of using styrofoam for the first tests and thought it was a good idea . Looks like your past that point now though , and well on your on way to carving.

Sure makes me wish I built one now


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

I'm also in the process of learning Fusion 360. The stuff is really powerful, but you have to learn an entire new way of doing things even from other CAD packages. Some of the mouse moves and other features seem to be opposite of other software just to be different. I downloaded 9 of the PDF training sessions and working through them first.
01 Introduction https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
02 Sketch https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
03 Sculpting https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
04 Model https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
05 Manage https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
06 Assemble https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
07 Render https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
08 Drawing https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...
09 CAM https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue29c9141/shares/public/SH7...




Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Great stuff, Steve - thanks!! 

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to cut a radius into a flat board. Specifically I want to cut a 15' radius into a 1.5" thick piece of MDF that is 24"x24". Some CAD programs let you create a 15' sphere, place it onto the flat board, and subtract out all that protrudes leaving a nice and quick radius in the flat board. I haven't seen that Fusion 360 does that but that doesn't mean it doesn't, probably just that I have yet to find out how.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I believe I've heard breaking a bit off the hop is quite a typical experience . I read a suggestion of using styrofoam for the first tests and thought it was a good idea . Looks like you're past that point now though, and well on your on way to carving.
> 
> Sure makes me wish I built one now


Funny thing is, Rick, that I intended to use Styrofoam for my first cutting but thought I'd let the machine bore the countersinks for my screws on the spoil board first. I didn't realize I was going to 'spoil' a bit in the process - LOL!

Now it's too late to use Styrofoam for my first cutting but it isn't too late for you to build one - go for it!


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Before anyone asks, Fusion360 is not a replacement for Vectric unless you are a masochist. I will never stop using V-Carve and definitely buy the Version 9 when it comes out. 

Fusion is for exacting dimensions and ability to create a multiple sub-assembly design. It also has state of the art high speed machining techniques.

Steve.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

SteveMI said:


> Before anyone asks, Fusion360 is not a replacement for Vectric unless you are a masochist. I will never stop using V-Carve and definitely buy the Version 9 when it comes out.
> 
> Fusion is for exacting dimensions and ability to create a multiple sub-assembly design. It also has state of the art high speed machining techniques.
> 
> Steve.


Masochist is exactly what I'm feeling right now, Steve, so spending money on V-Carve is looking better and better all the time. I know I can start with V-Carve Desktop and then move to Pro for just the additional cost between the two but I wonder if I ought to just start with Pro... my work area is larger than is allowed by Desktop and I do plan to build a rotary axis. But right now I need to learn and I don't have the rotary axis yet so maybe Desktop is the way to start out. Thanks for your help!


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

difalkner said:


> Masochist is exactly what I'm feeling right now, Steve, so spending money on V-Carve is looking better and better all the time. I know I can start with V-Carve Desktop and then move to Pro for just the additional cost between the two but I wonder if I ought to just start with Pro... my work area is larger than is allowed by Desktop and I do plan to build a rotary axis. But right now I need to learn and I don't have the rotary axis yet so maybe Desktop is the way to start out. Thanks for your help!


Things like v-carve lettering, tiling, quick surfacing routines and basic cutting aren't part of Fusion. You really need to download the demo of V-Carve just to see the ease and intuitiveness of the software. V-Carve and Aspire are 2D (although both can create cut path for imported 3D models) and doesn't support assemblies. Aspire can tweak 3D models. Fusion / AutoCAd / Sketch Up are solid model CAD.

Steve.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Aspire can also create 3D models. Several useful 3D tools available on the modelling tab.

4D


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

difalkner said:


> Masochist is exactly what I'm feeling right now, Steve, so spending money on V-Carve is looking better and better all the time. I know I can start with V-Carve Desktop and then move to Pro for just the additional cost between the two but I wonder if I ought to just start with Pro... my work area is larger than is allowed by Desktop and I do plan to build a rotary axis. But right now I need to learn and I don't have the rotary axis yet so maybe Desktop is the way to start out. Thanks for your help!


Just remember if you get VCarve Desktop like you say it will limit your jobs to 25x25 and you have a 28x52 machine so you can't use it's full potential, that might be *very frustrating*. That being said your design file can be larger than the 25x25 limit but any project that exceeds the 25x25 limit can be tiled and cut with a little more trouble but still doable. 

To experiment with the rotary layout and design you would have to download the trial version of VCarve Pro because the Desktop version does not allow 4th axis design but at least you could see what the wrapping design involves.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi David, interesting build.

I like your comment in the video, "but who's counting"....Start doing that and we stop enjoying wood working........


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Dave,

You've come this far, just bite the bullet now and get Aspire. Then you won't have to keep "wishing" you had the next level. Start with the best and learn from it.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Dave,
> 
> You've come this far, just bite the bullet now and get Aspire. Then you won't have to keep "wishing" you had the next level. Start with the best and learn from it.
> 
> HJ


I'm thinking the same thing . David has built the ultimate cnc router table , and using some basic software is like putting low octane fuel in a Porche Carrera GT.
I gotta say that Vectric is a lot of bucks though


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

When it starts earning back some of the coin spent for creation then I'll gladly upgrade its fuel. And it better *not *give me any of that '...if you'll just spend more money on me' attitude! :nerd: :grin:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

But Dave,

With all the money you saved building your own rather than buying one - that should more than pay for Aspire 8.5. Don't quit 1/2 way.

HJ

Likes spending other people's money.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I was setting up to cut a 24"x24" board when it occurred to me that I had not checked the table for coplanar accuracy. This is the initial test and it's out enough that I need to correct it before going much further.

Here's the setup I used -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , I was under the impression that you put a wide bit on your Spindle and cut the entire surface to make it perfect?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I was under the impression that you put a wide bit on your Spindle and cut the entire surface to make it perfect?


That's what I do. And you still have to skim it every month or two to keep it close to level.

HJ

Old playing cards sometimes come in handy for "adjustments".

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

That's not too bad just setting it up and checking. Just remember you are working with wood and different woods will cut differently on your CNC. Some will be right on and others will be slightly over or under but not enough to worry about. Just wait for the fuzzies or really wet woods. Get your sanding supplies ready!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I was under the impression that you put a wide bit on your Spindle and cut the entire surface to make it perfect?


Yes sir, but I didn't see any reason to cut so much when I can make shims and get it closer. Then all I'm doing is fine tuning with the large flat bit.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Yes sir, but I didn't see any reason to cut so much when I can make shims and get it closer. Then all I'm doing is fine tuning with the large flat bit.


Gottcha . I'm just learning , so please forgive the dumb questions.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

There are no dumb questions. And I'm so new to this I can almost guarantee I don't have many (correct) answers! Shoot, one reason I'm getting into CNC is the same reason I drove BMW's for 20+ years - they spell it for you! :nerd:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Gottcha . I'm just learning , so please forgive the dumb questions.
Quote - Rick

Not a dumb question at all, Rick. I've learned the hard way (read firepit fuel) that even if you have a completely level table and you're carving on a non skimmed surface, it may not all come out all looking even. A piece of "finished" material is not necessarily the same thickness all over and a 16th or 32nd of an inch can make a lot of difference in the look of a final product.

I usually cut text at least twice. First, a shallow cut to see just how level the piece is and the second (and sometimes third) cut deeper after I see if I have to raise up one side or the other. Hence the playing cards on hand.

Cuttting text or pocket cuts are fast compared to 3d carving. And you can always take more material out, but can't put it back.

HJ


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

> and you can always take more material out, but can't put it back.
> Hj


damhikt


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

This isn't really part of the build except that it's a natural progression to at least show the CNC machine working, so I thought a little project was in order. The build isn't 100% complete, though, but close enough to begin using the machine. I still need to get the VFD talking to the software (Modbus, connected via USB adapter - right now I have to open the electrical enclosure and use the keypad to turn the spindle on/off and change speeds), I need to make an auto-zero touch plate for the Z axis, need to figure out how to mount the Z- axis proximity sensor, and I truly need a dust shoe - really, really need a dust shoe!!

A little background on the project - I'm building acoustic guitars which means right now I build more templates, fixtures, forms, and jigs than guitars. One of the tools frequently used is a radius dish or a set of radius dishes for different guitars. People frequently call them 'flattop guitars' but most aren't even close to flat. The top and back have radii ranging from 12' to 65' or more. The radius helps keep the guitar stable, makes it stronger, and helps with the sound (very basic explanation). What I'm using is a 28' radius for the top and 15' for the back so last August Sandy and I got out in the driveway and made some MDF dust, lots of MDF dust. I know the dishes aren't cut perfectly so this looked like a good project to start the CNC on its path to production.

The video is a little longer than most I've posted but still tolerable at 8 1/2 minutes and starts with cutting the first radius dish by hand and progressing to cleaning them up on the CNC. It's interesting to note that the DC is much louder than the CNC and also how the mic picks up sound - the radio isn't as loud in the room as it sounds on the recording and the fans for the enclosure aren't that noticeable but they are in the recording. The hearing protection I wear is for the DC, though, because it is annoying and just loud enough that I won't run it without ear plugs.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Glad to see that you are finally making some dust! Here is a link to the dust shoe that I have been using.
Dave

https://www.kentcnc.net/nc/


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> Glad to see that you are finally making some dust! Here is a link to the dust shoe that I have been using.
> Dave
> 
> https://www.kentcnc.net/nc/


I've looked at those before - nice product, for sure. I kind of want to build my own but have plenty of other projects to get on now that I sort of have the build behind me. But given the mountain of dust this will produce I need to move that up on the priority list to either build or buy.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Very cool David . Your masterpiece looks like it's running perfect


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks, Rick! I have a little fine tuning yet to do and lots of learning - lots and lots!!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

A Dust Shoe of some sort is a must. I didn't use one at first and I still got all kinds of *&^% all over the place. Can't seem to get rid of it all.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

No beating the dust a CNC makes. You can get a little of it while it is cutting, but in our college shop you might as well leave the dust collector off just to save yourself from the noise it makes. Suck up all the chips and dust when done, then come back later to find a thin dusting of wood that has settled out of the air. A good air cleaner mounted over and another mounted under the CNC might help. 

As for the dish shown in the video, that could also have been cut using the CNC. If you have VCarve Pro or Aspire the fluting toolpath or the moulding toolpath can be used to dish out bowl shapes. 

4D


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> No beating the dust a CNC makes. You can get a little of it while it is cutting, but in our college shop you might as well leave the dust collector off just to save yourself from the noise it makes. Suck up all the chips and dust when done, then come back later to find a thin dusting of wood that has settled out of the air. A good air cleaner mounted over and another mounted under the CNC might help.
> 
> As for the dish shown in the video, that could also have been cut using the CNC. If you have VCarve Pro or Aspire the fluting toolpath or the moulding toolpath can be used to dish out bowl shapes.
> 
> 4D


Yes sir but since these were already cut all I had to do was clean them up. That certainly made the job easier! LOL!


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

One solution to the dust collector noise is to find a place outside to install the collector or make a closet to house your collector and sound proof the walls of the closet. That is on my sometime to do later list after insulating the shop.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> One solution to the dust collector noise is to find a place outside to install the collector or make a closet to house your collector and sound proof the walls of the closet. That is on my sometime to do later list after insulating the shop.


I've considered both of these but neither will work right now. Outside won't work at all; we're in a fairly new gated subdivision and the neighbors and HOA won't stand for that at all. I don't have room to build a closet until I get rid of my 10' long Oliver lathe that I don't use and is soooooo in my way. 

I thought about going straight up into the attic but that presents new issues for makeup air and how to deal with the waste when it's time to bring it down. I guess for now wearing the earplugs isn't that bad since I'm usually wearing them any time a machine is running anyway.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

If you are replicating an existing guitar geometry, you should look into a Digitizing Probe. It will create a model so that you can then cut the same over and over. Plenty of them out there, just need to make sure it works (talks) with your controller.

Steve.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

difalkner said:


> I've considered both of these but neither will work right now. Outside won't work at all; we're in a fairly new gated subdivision and the neighbors and HOA won't stand for that at all. I don't have room to build a closet until I get rid of my 10' long Oliver lathe that I don't use and is soooooo in my way.
> 
> I thought about going straight up into the attic but that presents new issues for makeup air and how to deal with the waste when it's time to bring it down. I guess for now wearing the earplugs isn't that bad since I'm usually wearing them any time a machine is running anyway.


If you want to put the collector in the attic you could have a separate in the shop then go into the attic so most of the waste is easy to get to and the noise would be out of the main shop. 

Open a window for makeup air.:grin:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Open a window for makeup air.:grin:


Climate controlled shop - open windows are a no-no! :surprise:


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Climate controlled shop - open windows are a no-no! :surprise:


"no-no" sounds like a great name for something you can make on a CNC that sells extraordinarily well! :grin:
"No.... NOoooooo!!!!" Is the sound you make when you see a small mistake (like a board coming loose on the CNC) turn into a big mistake (the bit breaks when it cuts through a clamp). :surprise:

4D :smile:


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Been there done that


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Yeah, Mark, you know all about that clamping thing, don't you???? lol

HJ


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

4DThinker said:


> "no-no" sounds like a great name for something you can make on a CNC that sells extraordinarily well! :grin:
> "No.... NOoooooo!!!!" Is the sound you make when you see a small mistake (like a board coming loose on the CNC) turn into a big mistake (the bit breaks when it cuts through a clamp). :surprise:
> 
> 4D :smile:


Y'all got to see the video of my first broken bit within the first 5 seconds of running the machine - I just laughed. Now if it *keeps* happening I may not laugh so much! :crying:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Y'all got to see the video of my first broken bit within the first 5 seconds of running the machine - I just laughed. Now if it *keeps* happening I may not laugh so much! :crying:


We're laughing with you David , not at you .  I'm sure even 4D's broken a bit or three.

At cncrouterparts.com in Seatle where I'm debating to buy from someday , they have all the needed hardware, but I'm kinda liking your gantry more . Would prefer a 4'/4' cutting area though. 
Our dollar is down so low that there's no way I'm making a big purchace in the near future . Maybe Trump will devalue your dollar enough where I'll be able to order it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David I watched a bunch of the assembly video from that company finelineautomation , and found it very interesting . I'm kinda liking your welded base better than assembling the aluminum one , but how in the heck do they get it perfectly level and square when you have weld something is beyond me . I think they make the welded bases in a 4'x4' size also .
But with an aluminum base wouldn't it be easier to increase the table size in the future?

That company is sure vague on there location . I think it's in Pennsylvania , pretty much worse case scenario


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David I watched a bunch of the assembly video from that company finelineautomation, and found it very interesting. I'm kinda liking your welded base better than assembling the aluminum one, but how in the heck do they get it perfectly level and square when you have weld something is beyond me. I think they make the welded bases in a 4'x4' size also.
> But with an aluminum base wouldn't it be easier to increase the table size in the future?
> 
> That company is sure vague on their location. I think it's in Pennsylvania, pretty much worse case scenario


It wasn't perfectly level on the braces across the frame and that's why I shimmed the MDF table before mounting the spoil board. But the rails are where it matters and that seems to be about perfect from my measurements. It is welded in a fixture that holds everything in place and then stress relieved and very hard; I know from drilling into it. I don't think you can increase the size on this at all so yes, an extruded aluminum frame would be easier to expand.

At one point Nate had the new facility location info on his web site but I don't see it now. He posted it on another forum so here's the 'About Us' that was on there - 

+++++++++++++++
We are excited to announce that business has moved to a new location in Lebanon, PA. We spent the previous 6 years in a building about 8 miles away from our new location. The old building served us well, and we made a great many machines there with fond memories, but we couldn't be more excited about our new space. Above is a shot of the new space. We're excited about expanding capacity and being able to provide more consistent service to you.

While we were happy with our previous space, there were several motivating factors to make a move:

Space - When we first moved into the last building, it was only myself and my wife managing operations for a small product. Since then, we've added 2 product lines and with the new Saturn series space was getting really tight. The new facility has more that 4 times the square footage and allowed us to rethink our layout. We can introduce proper work cells and build spaces and really eliminate waste in our manufacturing operation. Frankly, were just excited we aren't going to trip over everything.

Access - Part of the problem our last facility had was a lack of truck access. Freight deliveries had to go to a third party and anyone picking up a machine with a big truck had to really squeeze around the turn to make it. Now, we have 3 docks and can load/unload anything from pickups to semi-trailers. Not only that, but our new facility is easy to see from the main road with plenty of signage.

It has been an exciting six years for Fine Line Automation, and we look at this new location as the start of another chapter in our history. We're still working on getting settled in and getting the lines running, but we're incredibly excited to be in the new space. We'll be shooting a video tour of the new facility as soon as we're setup.

I want to say thanks for everyone's support through the years and with the move. Also, we want to give a special shout out to our contractor, Sensenig Design, who did great job completing the changes we needed to get up and running.

The new address is 28 Evergreen Rd. Lebanon, PA 17042
+++++++++++++++


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes the rails were my biggest concern , great to hear they were dead on . And as for PA , it's about as bad as it gets shipping wise . Seems like all the good stuff is in the east , 
but food wise in Texas at Mikes 
I'm not ready for one at the moment anyhow , just researching future possibilities .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , after watching more of there assembly video , I gotta say the gantry looks like the most intimidating part of it . I definitely gotta give you credit .

Regarding the spindle , is a water cooled version quieter than an air cooled one by very much?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

At least 5 times quieter, I would say. An air cooled spindle sounds like a router. I don't need hearing protection when the spindle is running. 

Go to 1:15 on this video, after I break the bit, and listen to the spindle running. Now it was only running at about 8,000 if I recall, but go run your router at 8,000 and see what it sounds like - 





Or go to this one at 4:55 and listen. It's running at 15,000 and the radio can be clearly heard, which I keep low enough to talk over even though the mic seems to amplify it somewhat. Now go try your router at 15,000.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well if the air cooled is really loud , that would be a deal breaker for me . The best part of your router table is how amazingly quiet it is


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well if the air cooled is really loud , that would be a deal breaker for me . The best part of your router table is how amazingly quiet it is


And all this time I thought the 'amazing' quality was *me *in the videos... Man, was I off base!!! :wink:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I have no complaints on my air cooled spindle. It's not loud at all. Can carry on a conversation without having to raise your voice. And, in my opinion, a lot less bother. To each their own.

Still admire you though, Dave.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> And all this time I thought the 'amazing' quality was *me *in the videos... Man, was I off base!!! :wink:


Well your truly amazing David . I just didn't want to make your head swell up to much is all


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> I have no complaints on my air cooled spindle. It's not loud at all. Can carry on a conversation without having to raise your voice. And, in my opinion, a lot less bother. To each their own.
> 
> Still admire you though, Dave.
> 
> HJ


I was thinking the same thing John. You certainly can't carry on a conversation with a PC7518 running in the background ,but with your air cooled spindle you can , so there's no comparison. 
And I guarantee I will not be running a router if I ever build a CNC RT . Can't imagine listening to a PC 7518 running for 12 straight hours . Besides it would burn itself up


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , did you go with Nema 23 or 34 stepper motors ? I'm assuming the 34's considering the size of your gantry


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I have no complaints on my air cooled spindle. It's not loud at all. Can carry on a conversation without having to raise your voice. And, in my opinion, a lot less bother. To each their own.
> 
> Still admire you though, Dave.
> 
> HJ


And I probably spoke too soon, John. I've only heard one air cooled spindle and it was nearly as loud as a router, though smoother sounding, so I assumed all were like that. The ones I've heard on YouTube are loud, as well, but I guess they aren't all a loud as what I've heard.

I have to agree on the 'less bother' part, though. Pros and cons to everything... 



RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well you're truly amazing David. I just didn't want to make your head swell up too much is all


Oh, we are _*sooooooooo *_far past that point, Rick!! LOL! :grin:



RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , did you go with Nema 23 or 34 stepper motors ? I'm assuming the 34's considering the size of your gantry


NEMA 34, 637 oz. in., 14mm shaft


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I suspected you went heavy duty , hence the 34 series .

David ,did you source the spindle elsewhere ? Sorry if I'm asking questions you've already answered , but I read threw a lot of your posts again and wasn't sure.

I see they also sell pre assembled electronics already in the box . How much money do you think a guy would save by mounting his own electronics as you did , and is it worth it ? 
I guess the learning experience would be far greater assembling all the electronics yourself , and may help for future trouble shooting . I'm certainly not intimidated by electronics


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

The sound produced by air cooled spindles vary. I have heard some that were just slightly louder than a water cooled spindle and also heard some that were as loud or louder than a router. Really depends on how they are engineered.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I suspected you went heavy duty , hence the 34 series .
> 
> David ,did you source the spindle elsewhere ? Sorry if I'm asking questions you've already answered , but I read threw a lot of your posts again and wasn't sure.
> 
> ...


Rick, I sourced everything myself, including the frame that FLA built. Working correctly or not this is 100% on me. The spindle is a Chinese 3kW from eBay. The complete electronics Nate sells is from CNC Router Parts but he wants to begin offering his own design of heavy duty turnkey system more along the lines of what I've built. 

His turnkey plug and play NEMA 34 electronics is $2,575 and has the advantage of being able to run as soon as everything is mounted on the frame although it doesn't include a spindle or VFD (or router if that's your preference). But I spent about $1,500 on my electronics and if you add in the spindle and Hitachi VFD it goes to about $2,200. So I spent less, got more, but I had to do it all myself (i.e., I truly enjoyed doing it myself!!!).


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm familiar with CNCROUTERPARTS.com as it was the first place I was going to buy from when the time comes . They are much closer , so shipping would be much better for me , but I must say that I'm liking FLA's system with there threw bolts to tighten up the whole frame if you go with there aluminum version . 
Shipping a solid frame like yours in a 4x8 size would be to harsh shipping wise , but I could see the aluminum posts being much easier to ship as they would be in separate pieces .
With my luck they'd be bent by the time they arrived here , as I'm not having much luck with shipping lately . 
I'm also liking the looks of your gantry better as it looks sturdier than most, but I'd have to take a better look at Scott's to confirm .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Nate was shipping free to the lower 48 but I don't know about now. And I don't know how it works; can it be shipped to somewhere in the states and you pick it up?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Nate was shipping free to the lower 48 but I don't know about now. And I don't know how it works; can it be shipped to somewhere in the states and you pick it up?


Well I'm liking the sounds of that , as I'm a 45 minute drive from Montana Shipping Outlet.
They hold freight for you till you pick it up , and there very reasonable . 
The bad , I let my passport run out , so now I'd have to go threw that process . And Trump may make it next to impossible to cross the border of he has his way lol


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick, Trump will let you in. You don't look like one of "them". Won't even have to climb a wall, since that'll be further south.


With the exchange rate, would it be cheaper to convert to USD and buy it that way and ship to Montana?

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> With the exchange rate, would it be cheaper to convert to USD and buy it that way and ship to Montana?
> 
> HJ


Well the exchange won't matter at this point . Should have done it when we were on par .
Hopefully when I get my garage insulated our dollar will be better . Kinda doubt it will ever rebound though .
Everything is fairly close too double at this s point after taxes , duty and exchange . 
So a 10k machine would be double , and that's one hell of a hard hit. More than I have on my line of credit lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok there's been no activity here for a over a day and I'm going into CNC router build withdrawal 

How are things going David ?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ok there's been no activity here for a over a day and I'm going into CNC router build withdrawal
> 
> How are things going David ?


Well, Rick, I've actually been USING it!! LOL! I now have about 28 hours on the spindle (glad I put an hour meter on the front door of the enclosure!). 

Speaking of the spindle, I had an issue with it tripping the VFD last week when I really started using it. If I went over 225 Hz, which is 13,500 rpm, and took any kind of a cut over a few thousandths then the VFD would give me an overload error. At 250 Hz I couldn't cut more than a minute without tripping the VFD. At 300 Hz, 18,000 rpm, and no load - just running in mid air and no bit - it would run about 20 seconds then trip. 

I called Drives Warehouse in Dallas, where I bought the VFD, and they suggested checking my wiring (I told them I just built this and the wiring and connections are all new and good but I checked anyway) and then do a factory reset if necessary. So Friday night I did the factory reset like they told me, went back in and set all the parameters, turned it on and it ran for a nanosecond then tripped. I thought I had fried the spindle, maybe the VFD too. So all last weekend I fretted over destroying my new tool and then Sunday night after church I double checked my parameters and found one I missed. After correcting that it fired up with no problem but still would trip if I went over 250 Hz.

So Monday morning I called DW back and got a different guy and this guy went over all the parameters with me, didn't see where I had anything wrong, but we checked the VFD and found that at 250 Hz the spindle was pulling 10.9 amps. The spindle is rated for 10 amps and the VFD was set to provide 11 amps so it was easy to see why it tripped.

He then had me do a factory reset in a different manner than I had done on Friday. We then set new parameters, including some the guy on Friday didn't mention but that I don't think made much difference, and when all parameters were entered he told me to fire it up at 400 Hz, 24,000 rpm. My first thought was, 'This ought to be fun!' To my surprise and delight it spun up to 24,000 just as quietly as it is at 6,000 rpm. We checked the amps and at 24,000 it is pulling 4.5 amps - what a huge difference!! We're thinking the factory reset done on Friday didn't take right, not certain.

So I've been running all week at 300 Hz, 18,000 rpm, and the spindle shaft rarely gets over 105°. I ran for a solid 3 hours one day and the shaft got up to 112°. The steppers get hotter - about 120° on long runs.

So, on to what I've been doing, I posted a video about cleaning up the 28' radius dish and noted that it was pretty close so didn't take much to clean up and that the 15' was a little further out. Well, it took about 20 passes to clean that one up. What an MDF ordeal!! But I finished it tonight. Here it is on one of the final passes and before I vacuumed the dust off - 









And I've been drawing a dust shoe so I'll probably start on that tomorrow or this weekend. After all this radius dish cutting, and I have two more yet to do, I really need to be catching some of this dust at the source. I can buy one and be done with it but I want to see if I can use Fusion 360, design one, cut it out, and see if it fits like I want. It doesn't matter if it works great because anything will be better than how I'm doing it now. This is what I have so far - 









Thanks for the shout, Rick!


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

I used "strip brushes" from McMaster-Carr in my home built dust shoe;
https://www.mcmaster.com/#conveyor-brushes/=14zjbo4 This is just one, search "strip brush" on the site for others.

Steve.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I had no idea a spindle could cause so much grief , but I'm happy to hear you got it resolved . I never would have believed it would have been a software fix though causing it to draw too much current? 

It's pretty neat that it makes no more noise at higher rpm's


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

My spindle started tripping the VFD after about 9 months - - also would just stop spinning for no reason. Thought it was the VFD but the spindle was replaced under warrranty - no problems since.

Once you're out of warranty replacement parts can be had for a fraction of the originals from outside sources if you do a little research. 

I screwed up when I got my dust shoe- got the 1.5 instead of the 2.5". Works great on the finish cut, but when doing the rough cut splinters will plug the opening up. Trying to decide whether to try and operate on this one to enlarge the opening, or just eat the $169 for a new one. Hate to spend the $$ twice. That's a few bullets and/or boards. I think they're just acryllic. And the magnet set up rocks.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well spindle's are starting to sound like there large heavy duty stepper motors , dedicated to spinning ?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> My spindle started tripping the VFD after about 9 months - - also would just stop spinning for no reason. Thought it was the VFD but the spindle was replaced under warrranty - no problems since.
> 
> Once you're out of warranty replacement parts can be had for a fraction of the originals from outside sources if you do a little research.
> 
> ...


Are you referring to the hose size, John? I'm making this one with 4" and if I need to use my shop vac I can use a reducer but I'll primarily use my DC 4" hose on it. I already had some rare earth magnets and the 1/2" MDF so all this is costing me is the $2 for the 4" DWV collar, unless I get some strip brushes from McMaster Carr and that will be about $15 delivered.

I'm making this first one out of the 1/2" MDF as a test for not only the design but to see if I can design something in Fusion 360, cut it out, and have it fit properly. When all is said and done I'll switch to Acrylic or Plexiglas, or just break down and buy one. 



RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well spindles are starting to sound like they're large heavy duty stepper motors, dedicated to spinning?


No, not really. This spindle is a 3 phase 220 volt 2 pole motor whereas steppers typically have many more poles. Also, the rotor on stepper motors is magnetized radially instead of axially as in the spindle and other motors. There are a ton of other differences but you get the idea.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Are you referring to the hose size, John? Quote Dave.

Yes on the hose size, Dave. The 2.5" should work ok. There will be virtually no problems with a 4" one. The problem I'm having with the 1.5" is splinters created during a rough cut (especially pine) will lodge sideways across the hose opening, creating a blockage.

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Are you referring to the hose size, John? Quote Dave.
> 
> Yes on the hose size, Dave. The 2.5" should work ok. There will be virtually no problems with a 4" one. The problem I'm having with the 1.5" is splinters created during a rough cut (especially pine) will lodge sideways across the hose opening, creating a blockage.
> 
> HJ


John you should check the magnet locations and if they won't be inside the cut for a 2.5" hole just cut it with your CNC. If they do fall inside the hole then I would pull the ones that are in the way and move them, just make sure the poles on the magnets are correct when you reinstall them.

Remember the part with the brush will probably need a slightly larger hole if the vac fitting goes all the way through so it doesn't interfere with the pull of the magnets.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess technically the build is complete but there are still a few things I associate with 'the build', like dust control. Tonight I ran a 7' piece of 4" PVC for dust collection and connected it to my partially complete dust shoe. A friend is suppose to be getting me some clear vinyl so I'm holding off ordering anything to complete the dust shoe.

The hose reaches the extents of the X, Y, and Z travel but I need to work on securing it so it doesn't flop around. At this point I'm not certain what I'll come up with for that, though - just started thinking about it. 

I'm still not accustomed to coming up with a design/idea, being able to draw it in Fusion 360, and then be cutting it out a short while later. It's a given that we all do that with the other tools in our shops but this is just a bit different for me and it's still pretty cool!

I had some scrap 5/8" MDF and 2x4 so that's what I made these brackets out of, then painted them Ferrari Red, Yellow, and Black (that's important, btw - LOL!).

Anyway, here's what I have to this point -


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## 121greener121 (Nov 16, 2016)

I've been following your build from nearby Tyler Texas and love the brackets and you build log, keep posting projects as you go forward, great thread!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Love the brackets David , your dust collection system looks first rate . But I'm not surprised , as you are a perfectionist


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Ah, Tyler's a good town! I have friends there, several actually. Welcome to the forum!


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

you don't realize how big the spindle is until you see it next to the 4" hose. how much does it weigh?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Love the brackets David , your dust collection system looks first rate . But I'm not surprised , as you are a perfectionist


Thanks, Rick!



MEBCWD said:


> you don't realize how big the spindle is until you see it next to the 4" hose. how much does it weigh?


Just a few ounces under 19 lbs., Mike. It's hefty, for sure!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

After running the PVC pipe and connecting the hose to the dust shoe, yet to be completed, I needed a way to manage the hose movement. I worked through several mockups before deciding on making this mount out of 1/2" Baltic Birch. I'll try it for a while and see how it does but the first thing I need to do is make a collar of some sort so the hose doesn’t slip down. It won’t actually be that big of a deal because I imagine most of my work is going to be in the first 24” of the table and the hose doesn’t move in that area.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looks good David . I never thought about DC , and I can see where a 4/8 table may be more problematic yet


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Quick update - I said I needed a way to keep the hose from falling down toward the spindle so what I came up with is a hose retaining nut, left hand threads, of course... Yeah, they didn't know what one was at Lowe's, either 

It's possible I could add a second one below the mount and maybe hold the hose in place better but I don't think the little bit of movement will be a problem. I could also put a retainer clip on the 'nut' and hold it in place but again, this probably won't be an issue.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

This isn't really part of the build except that I was testing not only the machine's ability to engrave small letters, 0.25" high, but my ability to do it in Fusion 360 which is definitely NOT friendly to this sort of thing. I saw this small piece of Honduras Mahogany and thought it would be a good test and it turns out the machine had no issues at all with this. I may try smaller just for grins - larger won't be an issue. But one of the things I plan on using this CNC for is inlay work on guitars so I need to know it will perform well on small, intricate, delicate pieces of wood and Abalone (or Mother of Pearl).

Here's a short video of my test -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David you machine sure looks she's runnng smooth . Or in another word , perfectly


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Looks like a good cut to me. 

Dave 1 thing I noticed is the way the toolpath is jumping around from letter to letter or stroke to stroke. In a small job this is not too bad but on large jobs it can add quite a bit of time to a job because every rapid move back and forth adds time.

Not sure about Fusion 360 but in Aspire you can change the text to curves so you can select a word, hold the shift key and select another word to add to the selection, continue holding the shift key and select another word, continue until all of the text is selected. Then calculate the toolpath. This causes the toolpath to cut a whole word then the next, then the next, without making long jumps between words or lines, making one cut and then jump again to another word or line make a small cut and on and on until complete. You might look into this if you ever want to do a long text job.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Dave your machine should do fine on Abalone inlays and pockets. I cut them on my Shark all the time and it is a little loose.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Looks like a good cut to me.
> 
> Dave 1 thing I noticed is the way the toolpath is jumping around from letter to letter or stroke to stroke. In a small job this is not too bad but on large jobs it can add quite a bit of time to a job because every rapid move back and forth adds time.
> 
> Not sure about Fusion 360 but in Aspire you can change the text to curves so you can select a word, hold the shift key and select another word to add to the selection, continue holding the shift key and select another word, continue until all of the text is selected. Then calculate the toolpath. This causes the toolpath to cut a whole word then the next, then the next, without making long jumps between words or lines, making one cut and then jump again to another word or line make a small cut and on and on until complete. You might look into this if you ever want to do a long text job.


Fusion 360 does not lend itself to lettering at all. When I first downloaded it I don't think it even had the ability to add text except by import. I noticed in the simulation that it was jumping around but like you said, it was a small job and I just wanted to get it cut. But I definitely want a work-around and there may be one but I've only briefly looked at the CAM layout and haven't researched at all online (might be truly simple for all I know).

Here's what I see: I notice that it carved some of the 'o' letters CW and some CCW. I chose the geometry for cutting like I read - top left to bottom right. But it is cumbersome to do the geometry selection in Fusion 360 for anything but a few letters.

When I take the model into the CAM module of Fusion 360 it looks like this - 








I then choose the Contour Selection, which in this case is the bottom of each letter - 








Once I select all of those, 77 in this case, it generates the Toolpath - 








I can run a simulation and see that it's going all over the place but there wasn't a quick 'Reorder' button so I just posted the file for processing. The way you describe Aspire working with text to convert to curves would be awesome but there are updates to Fusion 360 every few weeks so maybe they'll do something about it.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Dave your machine should do fine on Abalone inlays and pockets. I cut them on my Shark all the time and it is a little loose.


That looks great, Mike! What bits do you use to cut the Abalone and pockets? Do you lay that out in Aspire? I have some from StewMac from 1/64" to 3/32" but have been reticent to try them until I get used to the machine for how it feeds, moves, etc. Those pricey bits will snap in a heartbeat!

Do you cut the neck and other parts on your Shark, as well? I don't guess I knew you were building guitars...


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Dave,

Here is the link to a page full of useful bits for guitar makers. Tools for Luthiers

I use the shell cutters for the Abalone and the end mills for the pockets. Aspire and VCarve have a set of toolpaths for straight inlays that uses the diameter of the bit to calculate the gcode to get rid of the places the bit won't fit and match the inlay to the pocket. It is best to adjust your vectors so the bit will fit but these toolpaths will give you good inlays.

I haven't built one yet, just doing inlays for other people.

Here is the one I'm working on right now, just waiting on materials.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

You're moving me closer to getting into the Vectric world of this business, Mike! F360 is very powerful but not necessarily user friendly for CNC router woodworking. I had the Precision Bits page bookmarked for when I get ready to do some inlay work so I'm glad to see that's what you're using. 

The fingerboard looks good, btw. Did you also cut the fret slots or were they already cut before your inlay job? I've read of many people using a 0.23" bit to cut fret slots and I can see definite advantages to using the CNC for this. There are a few cons, as well, though.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

MEBCWD said:


> Dave your machine should do fine on Abalone inlays and pockets. I cut them on my Shark all the time and it is a little loose.


Are you cutting the Abalone inlays on the Shark also? If so what method are you using to hold it? I'm looking for better ways to cut veneer for marquetry.

Steve.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Steve I glue the abalone blank to a small piece of poster board then clamp the poster board down to cut the inlay. I use regular white Elmer's glue and after the inlay is cut I drop the poster board with inlay into a cup of hot water for a while. The glue dissolves in the hot water and the inlay drops off.

For veneer I would probably try double stick tape on 1/4" MDF then use solvent to release it from the double stick tape. I've done this way back when I used a router inlay bushing set to make marquetry inlays in the top of boxes. Most of the inlays I do now on the CNC are thin hard wood but I still have a bunch of veneer I need to use.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

MEBCWD said:


> For veneer I would probably try double stick tape on 1/4" MDF then use solvent to release it from the double stick tape.


I like the abalone process and may try that for similar hard small parts. Smaller veneer parts are a pain, without glue or tabs the dust collection can take the parts away even off a vacuum board. Getting the veneer off from glue or double stick has caused some to crack at the worst possible place for me. Even on a laser I have had issues with parts lifting and then cut by the laser again.

My least risk way currently is to leave tabs on at least one side and trim the tab(s) later.

Steve.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Steve one more way to do it is layer your veneer first with backer veneer. If you make it 2 or 3 ply veneer first then it is a lot stronger and would make things easier. Of course it helps to have a vacuum system if you do this.

I use to watch for large lots of cheap veneer for doing things like this and have actually bought some normally expensive veneer for next to nothing that when I received it it was saved for covering boxes and marquetry projects. For backer veneer I like it to be just plain straight grain solid color. I haven't made any large sheets just pieces large enough to cover a jewelry box or to produce small marquetry pieces.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I am adding this attachment to the build primarily for those interested in doing their own electronics. 

*Disclaimer: I am not an engineer or electrician and I have no training in this field. Use the attached schematic at your own risk.* 
​So with that disclaimer in mind feel free to use the electrical schematic for a starting point to do your own CNC electronics. What I have represented herein is working for me but one suggestion I have is to bring your power in from one 240v service and then split out the 120v. While it isn't the case with my setup it is possible that bringing power in from two sources can lead to a ground loop issue. 

Also, another disclaimer, I drew this schematic such that it made sense to me so if I used a symbol that isn't to code (likely) and you don't understand why or what I did then I'll be happy to go back and see if I can figure it out (possible, maybe...). I'm not in 'electrical mode' right now so I would have to figure it out just like you - I should have taken notes!!

If you're doing your own electronics and this helps then we've accomplished something good together. When I began the build I couldn't find a suitable schematic for what I wanted so that's why I drew my own - I hope it helps!

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I am adding this attachment to the build primarily for those interested in doing their own electronics.
> 
> *Disclaimer: I am not an engineer or electrician and I have no training in this field. Use the attached schematic at your own risk.*
> ​So with that disclaimer in mind feel free to use the electrical schematic for a starting point to do your own CNC electronics. What I have represented herein is working for me but one suggestion I have is to bring your power in from one 240v service and then split out the 120v. While it isn't the case with my setup it is possible that bringing power in from two sources can lead to a ground loop issue.
> ...


That is awesome , thanks David !


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

No problem, Rick, I hope it helps. It might also help to see the links to the components so I've attached a spreadsheet with the items I purchased. I have removed the costs because they will likely have changed since I bought them last year. Also, I didn't check the links to verify all of these are still good but if they aren't then maybe the descriptions will help find them online.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> No problem, Rick, I hope it helps. It might also help to see the links to the components so I've attached a spreadsheet with the items I purchased. I have removed the costs because they will likely have changed since I bought them last year. Also, I didn't check the links to verify all of these are still good but if they aren't then maybe the descriptions will help find them online.


Wow that's awesome , and much appreciated David . That list is going to be extremely helpful


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## HHJ (Mar 27, 2017)

Wow! That's some great progress. I am also new to all this and got much to learn and I guess following your ride will be a good start


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

HHJ said:


> Wow! That's some great progress. I am also new to all this and got much to learn and I guess following your ride will be a good start


Welcome to the forum and holler if I can help!

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , I noticed cncrouterparts keeps there VFD in a seperate enclosure . That would have gained you some room , reduced noise potential etc, although you managed regardless . 
Did you consider that , or would it be more that a PITA than anything ?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I noticed cncrouterparts keeps there VFD in a seperate enclosure . That would have gained you some room , reduced noise potential etc, although you managed regardless .
> Did you consider that , or would it be more that a PITA than anything ?


At one point I did, Rick. But one reason I went with the Hitachi is the lower noise (electrical interference) and all the 'big boys' put their VFD inside the same cabinet with the rest of the electronics. If I had gotten one of the Chinese VFD's it would have been mounted on the other end of the CNC from the enclosure.

But you are correct in that it would have freed up some room inside the enclosure. After using it for a while I'm glad its inside, though.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes we discussed the lower noise with the high quality VFD , and I figured that was the reason you mounted it in the main enclosure . 
Ideally , I'd like to mount the cabinet on the wall at eye level . Have the machines rear Y axis backed up against the wall ,and have the cabinet bedside the right rear of the machine where it's still accessible . 
But I can see where that might make for some overly long cables , and that might create new problems, especially on a 4/8 table


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

While definitely impressive, I think I'll stick to my little hand-held for now... (was that FIVE large friends to help move it??! I don't have that many around me. I'd need to rent a crane!) Can't wait to see it all set up... keep posting the progress, and wanna see a video of it in action if possible, please?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Yes we discussed the lower noise with the high quality VFD , and I figured that was the reason you mounted it in the main enclosure .
> Ideally , I'd like to mount the cabinet on the wall at eye level . Have the machines rear Y axis backed up against the wall ,and have the cabinet bedside the right rear of the machine where it's still accessible .
> But I can see where that might make for some overly long cables , and that might create new problems, especially on a 4/8 table


Just by way of info for you, Rick, I used about 200' of shielded cable on this build and this is a 2x4 machine, albeit a LARGE 2x4 machine.



OutoftheWoodwork said:


> While definitely impressive, I think I'll stick to my little hand-held for now... (was that FIVE large friends to help move it??! I don't have that many around me. I'd need to rent a crane!) Can't wait to see it all set up... keep posting the progress, and wanna see a video of it in action if possible, please?


Thanks, Barb! Yes, I thought about using multiple friends but instead found one who had an engine hoist - much better solution. The machine is finished and has been running for several months now. Subscribe to my YouTube channel for videos - David Falkner YouTube Channel. There are over 50 videos with about half involving the CNC build or projects. 

Here's the latest project posted here on Router Forums  Building an 18" Walnut Lazy Susan  and accompanying video -


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Just an update on this build thread - the photos have now been replaced after the Photobucket scam/ransom/hostage debacle. All photos are back like they were when I built this Saturn machine so if y'all need anything for reference or just want to glance at it then I believe you'll find it complete and whole again.

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That would be quite an undertaking, as you had a lot of photos on this thread . By far the best CNC thread I have ever seen too . Glad to hear you got it covered David .
I never even thought about that Photobucket nightmare . What a hassle that must have been , but I’m glad you redid it , as I still wanted to use this thread as a reference once I get going


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

I don't know if anyone else has asked but would you mind sharing with us how much you have invested so far and how much more do you expect to spend to finish it? For those of us looking for a machine, this is important information.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Gary Salisbury said:


> I don't know if anyone else has asked but would you mind sharing with us how much you have invested so far and how much more do you expect to spend to finish it? For those of us looking for a machine, this is important information.


Time or money, Gary? As to finishing, it has been running good since November 2016, so a good solid year of running. I just checked the hour meter for run time on the spindle and it's at 110 hours. It seems to me I run it a lot but I guess the hour meter tells a different story. But then, maybe 110 hours is a lot. Time to build? I have no idea but hundreds of hours. Money to build? What would you think if you were a guessin' man?

David

Here's the first job I ran a year ago besides leveling the spoilboard -


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## SplinteredDave (Nov 9, 2017)

Just read through the whole thread and like others have said...WOW! Truly impressive and I can see how much you enjoyed the process as it shows throughout. I myself went for the Erector Set route. I'm sure I could not have hoped to accomplish what you've done here...


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

A job well done, congrats


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Not long ago I looked back at this thread of the CNC build and realized the photos were once again hosed, thanks to PhotoBucket. So I have now uploaded all of them to the servers here and they should be visible without any blurring. Please let me know if you see any I missed, 'cause there were a lot of photos! :grin:

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

David,

You're reduced to this in 10 days? What's it going to be like in 2 months??


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> Not long ago I looked back at this thread of the CNC build and realized the photos were once again hosed, thanks to PhotoBucket. So I have now uploaded all of them to the servers here and they should be visible without any blurring. Please let me know if you see any I missed, 'cause there were a lot of photos! :vs_laugh:
> David



Needs to be Sticky'd! Some outdated but still useful info up there.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> David,
> 
> You're reduced to this in 10 days? What's it going to be like in 2 months??


Ha!! We're all gonna be looking for something to do. 
I think we are all really blessed to have a shop to play in while the world is social distancing.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> David,
> 
> You're reduced to this in 10 days? What's it going to be like in 2 months??


Haha! I actually did about half not long ago and just remembered today that I didn't finish. But tomorrow I'll be cutting Longworth chucks so I'm glad I finished it today. :wink:

David


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll start a new thread when I begin the spindle swap/upgrade but I can't do it now, and for a reason I didn't expect; I can't find distilled water. I mentioned the spindle swap in the thread about moving the spindle to reduce flex. I have a bearing going out on the current spindle although I haven't heard it since I bought the new spindle. The current spindle may have been just teasing me! :grin:

Anyway, with all this virus stuff and water issues at the stores they don't have distilled water - even though our water supply is just fine. I bought one gallon a month ago because that was all they had and then this stuff hit so now the stores have drinking water only and I don't want to put that in the system.

This would be the perfect time to switch spindles since Etsy orders have slowed, not stopped, but slowed enough to allow some CNC downtime. Oh, well, as long as my current spindle is running fine I'll leave it in place. 

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I certainly appreciate this thread David . I’m glad the pics are back ,as I’ve bookmarked this and go back to it for inspiration.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks, Rick! I actually go back to it when people ask how I did a certain step or task because I don't remember the minutia. I was in 'the zone' on that particular task when I was doing it but now have to refer back to my photos and notes for the actual details.

David


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> but I can't do it now, and for a reason I didn't expect; I can't find distilled water.


I went to the store early last week, and they had a few hundred gallons, with a limit of 1/person. Went to a different store later in the week, and they had zero gallons of any water.
At least Sam's club and Costco have bottled drinking water back in stock. If I could only get a big package of toilet paper..... The most I've seen in any store in a month is about 6-8 packages of 6 rolls.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Distill your own water


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

ger21 said:


> I went to the store early last week, and they had a few hundred gallons, with a limit of 1/person. Went to a different store later in the week, and they had zero gallons of any water.
> At least Sam's club and Costco have bottled drinking water back in stock. If I could only get a big package of toilet paper..... The most I've seen in any store in a month is about 6-8 packages of 6 rolls.


We're in the fortunate group who bought TP a couple of weeks before all this hit and I think we bought the 48 roll pack of Charmin and we have plenty of water, except distilled.



UglySign said:


> Distill your own water


I would have to be in a bind to do that, Ronnie, 'cause I need 5 gallons. My Dad was a petroleum chemist with his own lab and we occasionally made our own distilled water but we had a rig set up for that and it was easy. 

We frequently made our own vinegar for home, though. I'm sure my Mom was the only person in our area using vinegar made with reagent grade acetic acid! LOL! :grin:

David


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Just use the premix coolant, it’s antifreeze + distilled water. That’s what’s I’ve had in mine for 4 years. Had it running in an unheated shed all winter.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Just use the premix coolant, it’s antifreeze + distilled water. That’s what’s I’ve had in mine for 4 years. Had it running in an unheated shed all winter.


I’m liking the unheated part


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Just use the premix coolant, it’s antifreeze + distilled water. That’s what’s I’ve had in mine for 4 years. Had it running in an unheated shed all winter.


I had not even thought about that, Richard - good idea.



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I’m liking the unheated part


Just like home, eh Rick! :grin:

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I had not even thought about that, Richard - good idea.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That’s where I was going with this . I was actually tearing up knowing I wasn’t the only one


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I’m liking the unheated part


Not as far north as you, but at nearly 9000 feet in Colorado does get a might nippy.
Just a warning, Aluminum is COLD when temps are below freezing! Installing bits too hard to do with gloves. Not fun at all.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Not as far north as you, but at nearly 9000 feet in Colorado does get a might nippy.
> Just a warning, Aluminum is COLD when temps are below freezing! Installing bits too hard to do with gloves. Not fun at all.


I actually anticipate having the shop heated before I build the cnc. I notice my drawers don’t even open and close properly when it’s below freezing and things start to contract.
I’d like to keep the cnc at +10C minimum during winter


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