# Lighting



## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

O.K. now I am starting to put lights in new shop today picked up a 4' shop worklight with 2 T-8 bulbs it is not too bright, I will be bringing this one back.... I have a drop ceiling with 2' tiles the lights that fit in there are not very bright either, I am curious as to what any/every one reccommends


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Mine are 8 footers. High output, "0" degree ballasts. Four in a 24X32 shop. As I age, it still isn't enough light. Thinking of adding two more. But, the secret to more florescent light is to get the High output tubes and the "0" degree ballasts. JMO


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Warren. Light coloured walls and ceiling are a huge help.
I just did a mental count and I think I have 10 -2 lamp 4' T8 wraparound fixtures in my 12' x 27' shop. All the fixtures are set in 4" deep recesses between the trusses in order to maintain a clear 8' clg. ht. (Everything is painted drywall.)
Over the tablesaw the fixtures are doubled up to give me 8 lamps at that end of the shop.
20 lamps at 32 watts = 640 watts total. That's also my heating...


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Warren, I've got 4 - 4' - 2T bulbs in my little 10x16 shop, and it's bright as heck in there. BUT, as others have mentioned about the light wall colors help, my ceiling is white and my walls are very light grey. So yea, it's bright in there!


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I just have a ceiling fan with light kit in a 9'-6" high ceiling but use one or all of the 2 cheap clamp on work lights and or a goose neck lamp depending on where I need the extra light. Except for the detailed work the over head light kit works for my half blind self.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have about 10-12 4 foot 2 tube 40W fixtures and it is very bright when everything is on (28x35 with everthing painted white). However, I'm getting tired of replacing ballasts which cost as much as a new light. Someone recently posted that he had lighted his similar sized workspace with daylight compact florescents at a cost of about $240 and the picture he included looked about as bright as my shop. Princess Auto here sells 45 watt cfl bulbs that are supposed to be equivalent to 200 watt incandescents for just over $20 so I am starting to rethink my lighting strategy.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

papawd said:


> O.K. now I am starting to put lights in new shop today picked up a 4' shop worklight with 2 T-8 bulbs it is not too bright, I will be bringing this one back.... I have a drop ceiling with 2' tiles the lights that fit in there are not very bright either, I am curious as to what any/every one reccommends


My shed is 20' x 15' and I have 4 x 4' twin tube fittings each using NEC tri-phosphor 
tubes and it's like daylight with few if any dark spots.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

To supplement my 8 foot lights I use 150 watt outside spotlight bulbs. I have them directed at the table saw and other stationary equipment. They give me the extra light where I need it. I picked you some cheap fixtures at the Goodwill to put them in.


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## senebraskaee (Apr 29, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck,
The ballasts on cheap fixtures are hit and miss as far as quality. Have seen some last just over the one year warranty. I have found if I bump up to the next better fixture the ballasts last many years. I have several over 10 years old.
I am not a fan of CFL's for shop lighting as they are a point source of light and the shadows are harsher than you get from a tube type fixture. Some also have trouble in the cold and suffer shortened life.


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

senebraskaee said:


> Cherryville Chuck,
> The ballasts on cheap fixtures are hit and miss as far as quality. Have seen some last just over the one year warranty. I have found if I bump up to the next better fixture the ballasts last many years. I have several over 10 years old.
> I am not a fan of CFL's for shop lighting as they are a point source of light and the shadows are harsher than you get from a tube type fixture. Some also have trouble in the cold and suffer shortened life.


I agree 100% with the ballast on the cheap ones I bought 4 a 2 years ago and 2 are still going strong 2 have been replaced not very good in my opinion


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Paint, yes, I definitely recommend paint. But light color paint? No. 

I recommend the glossiest white paint you can get, then put on at least two layers. Get it so bright it will hurt your eyes. But, believe me, it will start to dim down as soon as you start putting tools in there, and when you start work and fine dust gets on the walls. Oh yes, paint it all, everything but the window glass, paint the floor, ceiling, walls, door. Don't use white, or semi-gloss, just gloss white. Make it look like you walked into the middle of an ice berg or something. Voice of experience.

I also found that painting my power tools bright yellow not only brightens the shop up, but it makes it cheerier.


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## GRLevel3 (Apr 4, 2012)

Ok, for me white pain, white ceilings, you have 2x2 lay-in, they make a fixture for that but costly (they use a F40T12 40watt U-tube lamp), if you go that way and for any Florescent bulb always get the T-12 no matter what length and the cool white lamps, they are cheaper and work just as well as the costly one, the most expensive part of the light will be the ballast and the new ones now don't last long, so when they go out go to a electrical whole sale supply store, they are commercial grade and most time cost less than lowes or HD, heck go there to get your fixtures and wire, they all sell to the public for cash/visa/what ever you have,

The basic shop light that is sold at lowes or HD will work, it has a reflective shield that directs the light downward, you can just get the strip and both can be clipped on the track of the 2x2 lay-in, just ask sales person, hopefully they will know, I always just cut a 2x4 to fit in the track on top of the lay-in material and then screwed the fixture to the 2x4,

I have to have much better light now so I have several clip on fixtures that you can get at walmart with 10watt to 60watt florescent round bulbs course I also have recepticals all over the ceiling to plug these into, with switches for each area and groups of lights, lol

Lots of good advice from the others so read it all and do your thing how you want, lol, 

GRLevel3 aka Poppa Rob, gone to rest and take a nap, later,


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## GRLevel3 (Apr 4, 2012)

JOAT,

Just saw your post, sounds like a plan to me, I'll try it when I get to that point if I ever do, hard to be doing things right now but will one day get it done, lo

Poppa Rob


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charles; you mentioned "40 watt"; are you using T12's? You do know that you can simply replace the ballasts with electronic T8 type and upgrade to T8's without changing the whole fixture(?). They should cost you between $15 - $20 each for the ballasts plus new lamps. _The lampholders are the same!_. The T8's are 32 watt.
I changed out about 30 fixtures at my local Legion's Hall and the improvement, from T12 to T8, was amazing! I highly recommend going that route.
As I mentioned earlier, recessing the fixtures between the clg. joists makes for a much safer installation, broken lamp wise. ('Cause you were looking for extra work...  )


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## paul11 (Jan 17, 2012)

I found the attached article helpful in buying and placing my lights


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

Thanks Paul that is useful info


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## GRLevel3 (Apr 4, 2012)

Danin Van,

You are right on this a little but not enough, T8 and T12 are different in physical size, in the connections, T8 is smaller than T12 and watt, 32 vs 40, but the watt difference is so small not worth the price you pay for the specialty item price that stores call them and charge, also you can get energy saving ballast for the T12 40 watt too, I just got 4 f40T12 ballast for 11 bucks each at the electric supply house and a 12 pack of bulbs for less than 10 bucks,

I don't mean to nick pick here but the differences here are costly, well to me, not worth the change, look her for comparison, if you like,

Fluorescent T8 vs. T12 Bulbs | eHow.com

GRLevel3 aka Poppa Rob, I am not trying to sway anyone, I am just trying to put out the facts as I am sure you think you are,


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not really Poppa Rob; the T8 stands for 'Tube'... 8 -1/8"s in diameter. the length and pin holders are the same. Finding* T12 40Watt lamps* has become a challenge as most retailers (and wholesalers are being squeezed to supply the energy efficient _32_ Watt T12 versions. The old magnetic ballasts put out a lot of heat relative to the newer electronic versions. I have T12 mag. ballasts and as I said earlier, I heat my shop in the Winter with their heat ouput, so it's not wasted...in the Winter. Summer; not so much.
Also, the T12 -32 watt versions are considerably less productive light output wise compared to the T8 lamps. Same for longevity. The T12's also lose their efficiency far quicker than the T8's. A further benefit is the elimination of the 60 cycle flicker produced by the mag. ballasts. The electronic ballasts cycle around 10K per second if I'm not mistaken (correct me if I'm wrong)...in any case basically flicker free.
There's also the benefit of not having the labour of removing and replacing the fixture itself; just swap ballasts and lamps and you're good to go. 
Getting rid of the ballasts may be a challenge...

SYLVANIA 21999 - FO32/741/ECO - 32 Watt - T8 - 25,000 Hours - 2,800 Lumens - 4100K - 700 Series Phosphors - Case of 30 | 1000Bulbs.com
Lots of info here on future availability of fl. lamps and ballasting...
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/D...4-11.c0d4e84f-f7ac-493b-bdb7-a04bce0bcbeb.pdf
With rebate programmes for converting to T8 from T12, it makes sense to do it before the cost of T12 lamps becomes prohibitive, never mind the ballasts.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

These are HD Canadian prices, currently.
Advance | Electronic Ballast ICN4P32 - 4xF32T8 | Home Depot Canada
Philips | 40W T12 Natural 2 Pack | Home Depot Canada
Philips | 32 Watt T8 48 Inch Daylight - 2 Pack | Home Depot Canada
I get mine at whsl. so There's a bit of a saving there.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

senebraskaee said:


> Cherryville Chuck,
> The ballasts on cheap fixtures are hit and miss as far as quality. Have seen some last just over the one year warranty. I have found if I bump up to the next better fixture the ballasts last many years. I have several over 10 years old.
> I am not a fan of CFL's for shop lighting as they are a point source of light and the shadows are harsher than you get from a tube type fixture. Some also have trouble in the cold and suffer shortened life.


Which ballasts did you replace yours with and how much were they. I like my 4' fixtures, as you say, they provide excellent coverage with minimal shadows. I'm just tired of replacing ballasts.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Charles; you mentioned "40 watt"; are you using T12's? You do know that you can simply replace the ballasts with electronic T8 type and upgrade to T8's without changing the whole fixture(?). They should cost you between $15 - $20 each for the ballasts plus new lamps. _The lampholders are the same!_. The T8's are 32 watt.
> I changed out about 30 fixtures at my local Legion's Hall and the improvement, from T12 to T8, was amazing! I highly recommend going that route.
> As I mentioned earlier, recessing the fixtures between the clg. joists makes for a much safer installation, broken lamp wise. ('Cause you were looking for extra work...  )


Thanks Dan,
That's good to know. I seems that the T-8s are replacing T-12s which is what I have. I have been buying the T12 ballasts whenever Home Hardware had them on sale which was still usually about $20 and some only lasted a year as someone else pointed out. How long have the T8 ballsats been lasting?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Warranty*



Cherryville Chuck said:


> Thanks Dan,
> That's good to know. I seems that the T-8s are replacing T-12s which is what I have. I have been buying the T12 ballasts whenever Home Hardware had them on sale which was still usually about $20 and some only lasted a year as someone else pointed out. How long have the T8 ballsats been lasting?


Philips offers 5 yr warranty on electronic ballasts, Charles. I think Sylvania is the same.
Philips Lighting Electronics
If you've got a buddy that buys at wholesale, the ballasts should be around $14; I seem to remember paying about $3 per T8 lamp at Eecol.
As I mentioned earlier the eco police are trying to stamp out the mag. ballast option. It's only a matter of time...


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## CGeorge1 (Oct 14, 2004)

I have been using GE Sunshine F32's in all my overheads and they are quite substantial in provinding a lite that is bright but without discolorization. Try to put more than one fixture up to eliminate as many shadows as possible.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

paul11 said:


> I found the attached article helpful in buying and placing my lights



Welcome to the forum, Paul.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

There must be a problem with American ballasts because I've worked in and operated electronic repair shops for 50 years and can recall replacing only one ballast and one power factor correction capacitor in that time. Every workshop had 4' fluorescents and they were on every working day from start to the end of each day.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Like Everything Else*



harrysin said:


> There must be a problem with American ballasts because I've worked in and operated electronic repair shops for 50 years and can recall replacing only one ballast and one power factor correction capacitor in that time. Every workshop had 4' fluorescents and they were on every working day from start to the end of each day.


'Morning, Harry! 
It's not so much the fact that they're N. American as that the big chains have been chasing the price down for at least the last 30 years.
There are, as you know, different qualities of ballast, and the cheapest (noisiest) mag. ballasts go into those $20 2 lamp/4' wraparound fluorescents.
It's a brave new world now, with Asian and Mexican electronic ballasts powering virtually all the new T8/T5 fixtures...and the prices are dropping rapidly.
Here, the top end fixtures have come down by a_ lot_ over the last 6 years ($60+ down to $38+/- ).
The electronic ballasts at wholesale are less expensive than a magnetic ballast now; why _not_ switch?!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

What are doing up this late at night ,bed time for you bud

I have replace many I have and now switch over to the T8 type, no big deal on the old type I just pick them at the scrap yard for 2.oo each but got feed up with replacing them and the tubes all the time..only time will tell if the T8's will out last the old type.I'm testing out the new LED type they say they will 1000 hours or longer and pull less power.

===


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

They seem like a fantastic solution, Bob, for hard to reach locations, based on their life expectancy of_ 4X that of a normal T8._ If I had to go up a 40' ladder to reach a fixture damn straight I'd be shelling out the $60ea  !
The price is still a little steep at 15X the price of a traditional T8(?)...
The lumen output at 1500 is also a bit less than a regular T8 at 2200 to 2500 lumens.
LED SMD T8 Tube Light - 1550 Lumens, 4 foot, Day White, 17 Watt, 300 LED, 90V-277VAC, Clear Lens, Commercial Grade - UL/ETL Approved


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ok, now we're talkin' !
Douche Téléphone au DEL ( LED ) - Montrealimport.com


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