# High Gloss (Piano-like) finish - suggested workflow



## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Hey, all. I am about to start the paint job on a full set of kitchen fronts. They are made from MDF and they are simply cut to size and the outer edges have been rounded off with a router.

Now, I have been wondering, researching, asking around and re-thinking a hundred times to finally come up with what I think of as a draft for the process. I would like to hear from you guys what you think about the order, the products, the sanding paper grit, and the number of coats for the different repeating steps. Or if you have a completely different suggestion that's fine too.

Here it is:

1	Dry sanding 120
3	Fine acryllic filler + fiber glass filler on open-pored edges
4	Dry sanding 240
5	Water based primer coat 1
6	Dry sanding 320
7	Water based primer coat 2
8	Dry sanding 400
9	Lacquer coat 1, color
10	Wet sanding 600
11	Lacquer coat 2, color
12	Wet sanding 600
13	Lacquer coat 3, color
14	Wet sanding 800
15	Lacquer coat 4, color
16	Wet sanding 800
17	Lacquer coat 1, clear
18	Wet sanding 1000
19	Lacquer coat 2, clear
20	Wet sanding 2000
21	Car polish + buffing till satisfied

It seems a little overkill, but it's the only way that makes sense right now. What do you think?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi nordhagen

This is what I would suggest because it's MDF.

1 Dry sanding 120
5 spray on based primer coat 
22 spray on paint with semi-gloss white or what ever ..MDF is one of the man made woods that's hard to get it all the same..(come out blotch )


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nordhagen said:


> Hey, all. I am about to start the paint job on a full set of kitchen fronts. They are made from MDF and they are simply cut to size and the outer edges have been rounded off with a router.
> 
> Now, I have been wondering, researching, asking around and re-thinking a hundred times to finally come up with what I think of as a draft for the process. I would like to hear from you guys what you think about the order, the products, the sanding paper grit, and the number of coats for the different repeating steps. Or if you have a completely different suggestion that's fine too.
> 
> ...


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Hei, bobj3,

I really don't grasp how step 1 and 5 are any different from my list. Regarding step 22, if I've been able to obtain a perfect reflective high-gloss surface, why on earth would I coat it with semi-gloss white??


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi nordhagen

Cut some test boards, not all from the same board,then do your numbers.

I'm sure you will see what I mean..

I use and like MDF a lot but it's real nasty to finish ...without using paint.

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nordhagen said:


> Hei, bobj3,
> 
> I really don't grasp how step 1 and 5 are any different from my list. Regarding step 22, if I've been able to obtain a perfect reflective high-gloss surface, why on earth would I coat it with semi-gloss white??


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi nordhagen
> 
> Cut some test boards, not all from the same board,then do your numbers.
> 
> ...


I really do apprechiate your contribution It's just that I'm having a hard time understanding your points. It might be because I'm Norwegian so English is not my native tounge. A couple of questions in return:

What do you mean by "then do your numbers"? Could it be that I should test the process on several non-adjacent pieces of MDF and then calibrate the order, repetition and sanding grits accordingly?

What do you mean by "without using paint."? Do you mean as opposed to laquer?

Øyvind


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI 

"then do your numbers"? )
You listed the steps you wanted to do by the numbers ...

"without using paint."? Do you mean as opposed to laquer? "
YES, MDF is funny stuff more or less like cardboard...and will take the finish just like cardboard..looks great in one spot then 2" from the good spot it will look like you use candle wax on the board.. funny stuff..

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nordhagen said:


> I really do apprechiate your contribution It's just that I'm having a hard time understanding your points. It might be because I'm Norwegian so English is not my native tounge. A couple of questions in return:
> 
> What do you mean by "then do your numbers"? Could it be that I should test the process on several non-adjacent pieces of MDF and then calibrate the order, repetition and sanding grits accordingly?
> 
> ...


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Hmmm, sounds like you've encountered one or a few bad batches of MDF or just a so-and-so matsnufacturer. I know MDF edges soak a goo couple of coats before it starts to show if you don't use filler, but I've never have had any experiences like you are describing. Then again, I've never spray painted it until now.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI

spray is the only way to go 

High Volume, Low Pressure Spray Gun Kit
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44677

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nordhagen said:


> Hmmm, sounds like you've encountered one or a few bad batches of MDF or just a so-and-so matsnufacturer. I know MDF edges soak a goo couple of coats before it starts to show if you don't use filler, but I've never have had any experiences like you are describing. Then again, I've never spray painted it until now.


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI
> 
> spray is the only way to go
> 
> ...


Oh my God, does that kit really suffice? I have a compressor like this:








(9Bar, 50L, 3HP, 2,2KW, 320 L/min continous)

And a spray gun like this:









...and the compressor really eats up space in my garage.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI 

I have one like it also But the High Volume, Low Pressure Spray Gun Kit, will put the paint on the job and not all over the shop..

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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

There are a couple of things about your finishing schedule I think might be improved upon.
1. MDF and any water from any source don't go together,if you are spraying lacquer(is it colored?) use lacquer sanding sealer instead of water borne anything.2. Most MDF is supplied with the faces at about 180g,so start with paper at a higher grit on all but the edges. You have laid out a very ambitious schedule and it should look good for MDF.

Regards

Jerry


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

That's strange. I'm beginning to think MDF is manufactured a little differently in the US because all advice I've been getting on this from professionals in Norway goes in the direction of a water based primer. I have tried it, and two coats of it covers really well without swelling. The main reason for choosing a water based primer is to avoid a chemical reaction between the wax in the MDF, the primer and the thinner in the lacquer. Several people comfirm this, but then again several people would never dream of using anything other than automotive filler, primer and paint for something as scratch prone as kitchen fronts.

The lacquer is colored dark grey.


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## chippypah (Dec 24, 2007)

Hi Nordhagen,
Your information is correct, water base primer. You could if you wanted use a two part lacquer I have used this on many occasions, it dries very durable and will take the knocks of a kitchen cubbed.
Cheers
Pete


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Today I finally finished cutting, routing and sanding all of the pieces and started to set up a couple of test pieces. Both have been sanded all over with 120 grit. Has been sprayed with water based primer and one has been covered with acryllic filler on the front and back and with Plastic Padding PP100 fibreglass filler on the edges.

Everytime I work with fillers I am reminded of how much I hate it.. I have definately got to try the 2comp sanding primer that I bought for the project a while ago. It can be sprayed on, yeay!

Anoyne hwo have tried Plastic Padding fillers before? I found it's really hard to do right because it's very thick and dries in 10 minutes. I didn't have a hope in hell of being done with one piece before it was too dried up to work with. I'll go looking for something else for the edges because that spray-on 2comp sanding primer was really expensive.


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## chippypah (Dec 24, 2007)

Sounds like two much hardener, you can get away with a very small bit (and gives you extra working time). You may find clear fibreglass resin a bit better to use, as you dont tend to get the air bubbles like with plastic padding.
Cheers
Pete


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks, I'll try fibreglass resin next, cause PP100 was a nightmare. I blended in the hardener by the exact amount specified in the manual, but it is actually *supposed* to cure in 10 minutes, it says so on the pack. Who ever would prefer something that hardens in 10 minutes to something that takes, say 30 minutes to harden?


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

*Images added*

OK, so here are some images after I just finished sanding everything smooth with 120 and then 180 grit paper today.

I think now that I have decided to go for automotive paint, which changes the workflow a bit (for the better and shorter). This is what it currently looks like. I don't know if I actually need two coats of both base and clear coat, but I threw them in for good measure. Maybe I need two tries at both because I'm such a novice at this.

1	Dry sanding, 120 grit
2	De-greasing (Motip, see image)
3	Water based acryllic primer
4	Dry sanding, 180 grit
5	Spray filler (Hagmans, see image)
6	Dry sanding, 180 grit
7	Spray sanding primer (Glasurit)
8	Dry sanding, 800 grit
9	Base coat 1
10	Wet sanding, 800 grit
11	Base coat 2
12	Wet sanding, 1200 grit
13	Clear coat 1, klar
14	Wet sanding, 1200 grit
15	Clear coat 2, klar
16	Wet sanding, 2000 grit
17	Rubbing compound, repeat until satisfied

The photos show the MDF kitchen fronts of various sizes that have been cut, routed and sanded. The paper sheets are task lists for all the pieces, which now have to be replaced. Then there's a picture of the replecement compressor I got instead of the 6 liter 1.5 hp one the shop sold me the first time... Then a picture of the de-greasing stuff, one of my paint gun and lastly the 2-comp spray-on automotive filler.


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## chippypah (Dec 24, 2007)

Looks like a solid plan there, now for the fun of spraying.
Cheers
Pete


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

Thanks! Yep, spraying is fun, but now winter has arrived and my garage temerature is 2-3 degrees celcius with a 70+ air humidity, so I might have to find somewhere else to do the paint work...?


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## boxer (Sep 15, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> HI
> 
> spray is the only way to go
> 
> ...


Bob, how would this kit work with spraying small boxes? Say about 6"x9" or a little larger? I would be spraying lacquer.
TIA,
Kevin


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Kevin

I'm sure you would like it, it will spray lacquer and put down that nice finish 
Just make a small paint box out of a big cardboard box and ware a mask, lacquer can be nasty on your life support system..  that's why many auto painters are just a little bit nuts and drunk all the time, now I'm in for it 


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boxer said:


> Bob, how would this kit work with spraying small boxes? Say about 6"x9" or a little larger? I would be spraying lacquer.
> TIA,
> Kevin


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## boxer (Sep 15, 2004)

Thanks, Bob. I've never used anything like that before, I've been spraying from shake cans up until now. I realise I should have sent a PM. Sorry to hi-jack the thread.
Kevin

*steps back into the shadows.*


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## Electron (May 22, 2008)

It's obvious from all the above posts why most kitchen makers have the doors made by one of the specialist door companies Like Laminex Industries over here, they have a thick catalogue of styles and colours that the customer chooses from. Apart from many species of wood, Vinyl wrap is available in a host of colours and degrees of gloss.


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## downhill (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok so I'm late for the game on this one. 

Bob, have you actually used that kit? The price on that really is a bargain if it does a decent job.


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Kevin
> 
> I'm sure you would like it, it will spray lacquer and put down that nice finish
> Just make a small paint box out of a big cardboard box and ware a mask, lacquer can be nasty on your life support system..  that's why many auto painters are just a little bit nuts and drunk all the time, now I'm in for it
> ===========


I was just a little curious about that spray gun kit, so I decided to do some googling. I found this thread on another forum. According to the replies, the tools from Chicago Electric Power Tools (the maker of the kit) are not exactly quality tools.

Now, I guess if that spray gun kit is an exeption to the CEPT line of inferior products, it might be worth the money for at best an acceptable finish. Putting down lacquer with a professional spray gun requires a massive amount of air *volume* in addition to pressure. And a compressor of that size cannot possibly be able to atomize the paint enough to produce a smooth, even finish without orange peel.

If anyone can prove me wrong, please do so.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

There is no traditional compressor on that little Harbor Freight unit so size means nothing for the spray finish because its not a regular compressor type system, its a turbine unit. So you can not go by size.

I used this before I sold it. Turbines are very small and can not be compared to a compressor type system, especially by size, they are much better! Small, quite like a vacuum cleaner and give a fantastic finish and better atomization then a compressor HVLP system, all without a huge compressor.

Fuji HVLP Turbine

That being said I have no first hand knowledge of the Harbor Freight unit.


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## nordhagen (Sep 1, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> There is no traditional compressor on that little Harbor Freight unit so size means nothing for the spray finish because its not a regular compressor type system, its a turbine unit. So you can not go by size.
> 
> I used this before I sold it. Turbines are very small and can not be compared to a compressor type system, especially by size, they are much better! Small. quit and give a fantastic finish all without a huge compressor.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000UJI2G


OK, but do you think a car refinisher would use this system for expensive primers, bases, clears and top coats?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Like I said I have no experience with this unit, but I would say no definitely not for automotive.

For a kitchen cabinet set or some small projects it may be fine. It definitely is a hobbyist unit for sure.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi nordhagen


The one from HF is not made for auto work,,,that type of job is a diff.color horse  I have one that will paint cars ,it's 80 gal. set to 145lb.turn off and will run wide open all day long (5HP horz.tank ) I use it all the time for my sand blaster cabinet ...that takes tons of air to run...

But the HF works great for small jobs like cabinets,boxes,etc.

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nordhagen said:


> OK, but do you think a car refinisher would use this system for expensive primers, bases, clears and top coats?


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## parkerdude (Aug 16, 2008)

*Was lurking, now I'm a little nervous*

Hi all,
I was up late and this thread caught my eye. I'm making kitchen cabinets too, and I researched methods and I came up with this...

(OK go to Rockler's site and search for "HVLP Spray System") It seems that I haven't made enough posts to supply the URL. and go to Bobj3's post #8 in this thread for the Harbor Freight HVLP link to compare.

Now I'm a little nervous. I see a strong resemblance between these two products. I bought mine about a month ago from Rockler, and I haven't used it yet, I'm not quite ready to paint.

I either hope that this sprayer is OK or that someone gives me a heads-up if it's not so I can return it. I paid $80.00 for it. Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks, 


snip... from Nordhagen post #25
According to the replies, the tools from Chicago Electric Power Tools (the maker of the kit) are not exactly quality tools.

Now, I guess if that spray gun kit is an exeption to the CEPT line of inferior products, it might be worth the money for at best an acceptable finish. Putting down lacquer with a professional spray gun requires a massive amount of air *volume* in addition to pressure. And a compressor of that size cannot possibly be able to atomize the paint enough to produce a smooth, even finish without orange peel.

If anyone can prove me wrong, please do so.


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## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

yeah most likely made in the same chinese sweat shop. heck they are even the same price right now

looks like it got quite good reviews.


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