# Table saw maintenance



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Noticed my table saw blade mechanism was harder than normal to lower today, like I was cranking through resistance. Looked underneath it and saw a lot of sawdust buildup on the mechanisms. I’m thinking this is what I felt, the gears cranking through excess caked on dust. So I’m going to clean all this off and see if it helps. My question is what do I lubricate the gears with? Do I use anything at all? It seems this will just make dust stick to it even more.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

dry lube such as TriFlow...
it doesn't collect dust and makes for a non-stick surface...
years and years of VOE says this works...

.
*VOE says WD* is a mistake and all myth... it's a wet something or another that attracts all kinds of trash... does way more harm than good in the scheme of things... I've made a lot of money cleaning/fixing/replacing/repairing after the fact...
It makes for a humongous mess [remember this come finishing time] and if it gets into an electric motor kiss the motor goodbye... It's also prone to flash fire and really doesn't work all that well on anything but it's convenient... 
I'm real partial to Triflow but most any dry lube will work well providing it's has Teflon/PFTE in it... [higher percentage by volume is more gooder]... 
CRC, Tiolube, KG and DuPont each have several most excellent industrial spec *DRY SOLID FILM* lubricants.. 
Criteria - dries dry to the touch, high pressure load bearing, contains Teflon/PFTE, barrier forming, extreme temperature range, [usually -100 to +500F] isn't hygroscopic, does not collect dirt, not flammable in dry state, chemical resistant, does not contain silicone, has a long list of compatibles and is really very long lasting... or any of or all the features WD hasn't got any of.... 

one thing about dry solid film lubricants is that when you apply them and you think that you didn't apply enough you have probably applied too much.. 
very, very little goes a loooooooooooooooong way... 
Just wait until you do your saw's arbor mechanism w/ dry lube.. you and your saw will never be the same... You'll treat everything that moves in the shop in short order... Please thoroughly clean whatever before lubing.. 
It's a great release agent too... 
Dry Film Lubricants are high performance coatings made up of very fine particles of lubricating agents blended with binders and other special additives. Once cured, these lubricating agents bond to the part surface as a solid film which reduces galling, seizing and fretting and protects against corrosion. Through the combination of these properties, dry film lubricants greatly improve the wear life of coated parts. 
Dry film/solid film lubricants allow for operating pressures above the load-bearing capacity of normal greases and oils. They are also less prone to collecting soil particulates than greases and oils. In some applications, the coating is self-burnishing, leading to improved, rather than decreased, performance over time. Some blends of dry film/solid film lubricants are also temperature and chemical resistant allowing for their use in harsh environments such as jet engines where exposure to aviation fuel and extreme temperatures are the norm.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok I’m sold. Where do I get it? Lowe’s have it?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Looks like I can get it on Walmart’s website for che


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Ok I’m sold. Where do I get it? Lowe’s have it?


most everybody has it... or similar...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Dry lube all the way, like Stick says. I use Blaster from Lowe's - works great!









David


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

WD40 stands for Water Displacer 40th attempt. Displacing water in, for example, the electrical connector between truck and trailer on snowy slushy days. All the log truck drivers up here keep a can in the cab. That is what it’s really good for. 

One way to clean the threads is to wrap a cord around the screw and spin it from one end to the other if you can get at it.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I also use Blaster and it works really well. A little dab will do you.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

I have used PB Blaster - it works great, but the smell is atrocious!
I use DuPont's Teflon product that Stick listed above and that stuff is great.
It is the best thing going for squeaky garage doors/tracks.
Stick's info is SPOT-ON!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

You can find Tri-Flow or its equivalent in almost any bike shop. Ask for dry chain lubricant.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

This is the type of lubricant you want to use if you have a CNC. I have serviced a few machines that people had been using wet type lubricants and among them WD40 and the wet lube attracted dust, built up and packed into the bearing pockets and bearings and caused them to grab and make high pitched squeaks with every move. They just added more lubricant to remedy the problem but it just made things worse.

After cleaning up everything, and that was not fun and took forever, the machines were re-lubed with dry Teflon lube and they were surprised how much difference it made. I haven't been back for service on any of those CNC's for that problem.

Bottom line wet lubricants and saw dust don't go together!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I use Johnsons Paste Wax, applied to the gears and ways with an old tooth brush. It develops a dry surface that does not attract dust, but stays in place and does it's job well.
I use Tri-Flow for the pivot points. AVOID using anything with silicone in it, because it seems to eventually get on everything including your project and you will have all kinds of finishing problems. Silicone products are banned from my shop. I also use Johnsons Paste Wax on my cast iron,applied and then wiped and buffed after it dries to a haze. I do this to the table surfaces to stop rust and also to make things slide easily. I add another coat any time the boards don't seem to slide across the table easily.

Charley


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MEBCWD said:


> This is the type of lubricant you want to use if you have a CNC. I have serviced a few machines that people had been using wet type lubricants and among them WD40 and the wet lube attracted dust, built up and packed into the bearing pockets and bearings and caused them to grab and make high pitched squeaks with every move. They just added more lubricant to remedy the problem but it just made things worse.
> 
> Bottom line wet lubricants and saw dust don't go together!


you know WD will kill bearings in very short order.....
it dissolves the bearing's lubricant...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mike,

Can you use that on the tubes and lead screws instead of oil?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Herb Stoops..

you get rid of your WD40 yet??


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> Mike,
> 
> Can you use that on the tubes and lead screws instead of oil?


yes...
preferred...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I don't have a CNC.
Herb


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Mike,
> 
> Can you use that on the tubes and lead screws instead of oil?


Stick beat me to it. WD 40, 3in1 oil, motor oil and other lubrcants that stay wet are not good to use because of the sawdust build up. Dry lubes are the best.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I don't have a CNC.
> Herb


but you are ignoring or abusing the rest of your tools???
oh the shame...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> but you are ignoring or abusing the rest of your tools???
> oh the shame...


I use bacon grease I get 100% pure refined from Harbor Freight.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

With every doz. cans you get a lb. of Canadian Back Bacon.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I use bacon grease I get 100% pure refined from Harbor Freight.
> Herb


nothing too good for you Herber..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Looks like I can get it on Walmart’s website for che


make sure you give the container a really good shake up before applying....


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## radios (Sep 30, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> WD40 stands for Water Displacer 40th attempt. Displacing water in, for example, the electrical connector between truck and trailer on snowy slushy days. All the log truck drivers up here keep a can in the cab. That is what it’s really good for.
> 
> One way to clean the threads is to wrap a cord around the screw and spin it from one end to the other if you can get at it.


:stop: don't use that on rubber or plastic parts, it contains petroleum distillates, which will eventually disintegrate those!.. crazing, hardening, and cracking are a few signs..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

radios said:


> :stop: don't use that on rubber or plastic parts, it contains petroleum distillates, which will eventually disintegrate those!.. crazing, hardening, and cracking are a few signs..


and eats bearing seals for snacks...


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## ScottyDBQ (Jul 5, 2008)

I use DuPont Teflon Non-Stick Dry-Film Lubricant Aerosol Spray, 10 Oz. No silicone; repels dust Really like it.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

I’ve always thought of WD-40 as a solvent instead of a lubricant. I don’t even own any. Used to use it to clean rust from tops but found out that the wet PB Blaster is even better for that so I don’t have a use anymore for WD-40, although I once heard it was an awesome ingredient in catfish bait. Never tried it. 

As for my table saw I’m going to get a dry lubricant. Definitely. Probably get some paste wax for my bandsaw table and table saw top too. My table saw top has a coating on it and I think it’s aluminum underneath that but I have noticed that wood doesn’t slide on it as smoothly as I think it should. It’s a Ridgid R4513 model. But wouldn’t the wax leave a residue on wood that would need sanded off to finish? Not all of my projects get sanded. If the wood doesn’t need it I don’t bother.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

The word tools came out as tops in my above post. I cleaned rust from tools with WD-40. Not anymore though.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> But wouldn’t the wax leave a residue on wood that would need sanded off to finish?


buff it out...
put a bonnet on your ROS and buff away...
or go find a mega cheap car polisher..
the more you polish/buff the harder and slicker it gets...

Johnson's paste wax for your tables and tools... 
You can add Briwax, Black Bison, Behlen, Trewax and Mohawk to the list of acceptable waxes...
If they contain Carnauba wax they will finish harder and be longer wearing/lasting...
You can even add more Carnauba if you want...

http://www.parkbeekeeping.com/products/detail/carnauba-wax

Wax applied to a warm surface is a big plus...
Mechanical polishing over hand buffing is way better.. (elcheapo car buffer or a wool bonnet on your ROS)...
Polishing is what makes the wax work to it's fullest...
More polishing.. Better results...

above all.. make sure it DOES NOT contain silicone...

Wax clean up/removal/thinning is done w/ mineral spirits...
A pound of wax should last way more than a decade maybe even well into the second...
Put it on any tool table surface you have...
Great for plane soles too... 
To melt/soften the wax put the container of wax in hot water but not submerged...

Carnauba wax, sometimes also referred to as palm wax or Brazil wax, is a kind of wax that is made from the extracts of palm leaves. These leaves are found on the plant ‘Copernicia prunifera’, a short plant that is usually found in Brazil, especially in the states of Ceara, Rio Grande do Norte and Piaui. Also known as the ‘Queen of waxes’, it is found in yellowish or brownish flakes.

Stick w/ your silicone-less furniture paste wax and avoid possible contamination of your project...

If you are considering candle wax... not all candles are created equal...
You also have to contend w/ dyes in the wax...
Best to steer clear of using candle wax...

Candle making colorants come in a vegetable based block so there is no paraffin in these color blocks.

Candle Wax | Candlewic
Candle Dye, Colors & Pigments | Candlewic

PARAFFIN CANDLES
Paraffin development began in 1830, but manufactured paraffin was not introduced until 1850. It provided an alternative to tallow which gave off an unpleasant odor when burned. In 1854 paraffin and stearin (the solid form of fat) were combined to create stronger candles, very similar to those we use today.

BEESWAX CANDLES
Candles have a wide variety of ingredients, but there are only a few main ingredients that are used throughout most of the world. We will talk about the main types, and the advantages and differences of each.
Most honey and bees wax is collected from July to September. It can come from the pollination of canola, sweet clover or sunflowers. Generally these plants result in a lighter scent and lighter colored beeswax.
There are two types, solid beeswax and honeycomb wax. The solid bees wax candle is created by pouring liquid wax into a candle mold. The result is a smooth, dense candle which burns for an extremely long time. Honeycomb beeswax candles are created by rolling honeycomb textured sheets. The honeycomb candle is less dense and burns faster.
Beeswax candles produce a bright flame, do not drip, do not smoke or sputter, and produce a fragrant honey odor while being burned.

CRYSTAL WAX CANDLES
These are also called wax tarts or wax potpourri. They are made with an all-natural candle wax that holds twice as much fragrance as paraffin wax candles, making them suitable for highly scented candles. They are used with a potpourri warmer (without any water). The fragrance emerges when the candle starts to melt.

GEL CANDLES
Gel candles have a new and unique look. They give off a beautiful illumination and a wonderful aroma. And they burn three times as long as wax candles.
But be careful. Gel candles produce a higher burning flame and they burn much hotter. Too much heat can shatter a glass candle-holder or container which can ignite nearby combustibles, resulting in a room fire. To be safe, never burn a gel candle more than four hours.

SOY CANDLES
Soy wax candles are made from soy beans. They are non-toxic, non-carcinogenic and bio-degradable. They burn up to 40% longer than paraffin candles and burn evenly which means there is no tunneling effect. However, it is not recommended to burn more than four hours at a time. Soy candles are very sensitive to temperature and light. They should be stored away from sunlight, fluorescent lighting and other sources of heat.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Well, I spent 5 hours cleaning my shop today and I’m still not done. Part of that was spent on my table saw. I spent a solid hour removing caked on sawdust from the blade raising gears and threaded shaft. I wish I’d taken a pic when I started. You couldn’t even see the shaft threads. I don’t know how the blade could even go up and down. Also there are two guide slots, one on each side of the motor, that a T shaped part slides in as the blade travels up and down. The parts and the tracks both were not only caked with sawdust but there is a sticky residue all over it. I believe this is part of the resistance I feel. 

I brushed and vacuumed until almost all of that was gone. Tomorrow I’m going to use mean green cleaner on it and take it back to factory new clean condition. Then I’ll get some dry lube and coat everything well.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Very ambitious Duane and good work. Did you have any parts left over? Usually when I take something apart, I end up with spare parts:nerd:0


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane...
you need to rinse w/ your Green cleaner...
cover/wrap up the motor and use brake cleaner on the moving/turning parts..
no residues or films left behind.. just raw metal..
be wary of the fumes and keep the cleaner out of the electrical anything and don't inject your bearings...
that ''gummy'' you found is characteristic of grease and WD...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

I figured that was the residue from wood cutting. I have ran treated lumber through this saw at times.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

brake cleaner will clean the cleanliness....


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes I’m gonna have to do that. I was just now out in the shop spraying and wiping some more, and thought the metal was looking pretty clean until I swiped my fingers across the black painted part. It left a visible streak and black residue on my finger. Tomorrow I will thoroughly clean the saw. Will carb/choke cleaner work or is it too strong? It might take the paint off. The can says it cleans all UNPAINTED parts. I’m probably just gonna have to get a can of brake parts cleaner.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Forgot the pics.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Yes I’m gonna have to do that. I was just now out in the shop spraying and wiping some more, and thought the metal was looking pretty clean until I swiped my fingers across the black painted part. It left a visible streak and black residue on my finger. Tomorrow I will thoroughly clean the saw. Will carb/choke cleaner work or is it too strong? It might take the paint off. The can says it cleans all UNPAINTED parts. I’m probably just gonna have to get a can of brake parts cleaner.


Duane...
*DO NOT USE* choke/carb cleaner..
trust me on this...
CRC makes the best brake cleaner... 










make sure you use a rag to catch the drips to avoid making a mess...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Gotcha on the brake parts cleaner. I figured the carb cleaner would damage any non metal parts anyway, which I just discovered hat there is a plastic bushing under one of the gears. Shown in the pic, the green arrow points to its location. Why do I wish this was a brass bushing? Maybe metal would provide too much resistance whereas plastic allows for smooth rotation of the threaded shaft. Do you see any problem with swapping this out to metal? Even a stack of washers? I just feel that plastic will wear out and I’ll be needing to replace it anyway. While it’s apart and the bushing is still good I can use it as a size reference. 

Also, the blue arrow indicates the metal “tab” that was bent out of the rather thick sheet metal yoke that the motor assembly rides against. This was not square to the rest of the set up and had that plastic bushing riding on just one edge as the shaft rotated. I took the liberty to square this up so the bushing sits flat. I reassembled things and did a dry run and it actually seems that the motor moves up and down easier now. 

Lastly, the red arrow points to the gear on the crank shaft of the motor lift. This gear is attached with a screw tray passes through the shaft and back into the gear on the other side. Sadly, the gear wobbles as the shaft is turned. This explains the shimmy from side to side I’ve watched my blade do as I raised and lowered it over the last theee years. Has never caused any serious problem to me or my projects, but depending on where you stop the blade height it is out of square to the table ever so slightly. 1/32” maybe. It’s been a looooong time since I’ve even checked it. I just recall during setup that no matter what I did the shimmy was still there and the blade passed in and out of square as I raised and lowered it. It’s alwas bugged me, and the way this is made there is no tweak for it. I loosened the screw and skewed the gear in the direction it needed to go in as I retightened it. This seemed to slightly lessen the wobble I could observe as I turned the wheel but I know once things are back together and the gear is under load to lift the motor it may not stay. I’m also aware I’m knit picking a $500 saw ($400 now, it has come down since I bought it, grrrrrrrrr) to specs of greater than 1/32 accuracy, but hey I shoot for the stars even if all I have is a slingshot. When I start refining things you can bet even my slingshots will end up being made from surgical steel with tactical rubber grips, a super elastic polymer band with a ratchet lock to hold it at half draw, and a suede leather cup to shoot high polished chrome steelies from. It’s liable to even have a laser sight mounted between the forks, and a pop off cap to store extra ammo in the handle. That’s how I roll. 😁


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Forgot the pic again!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

what brand of saw is this???
a bronze bushing or a sleeve bearing is a great idea...
skip the staked washer idea.. things could very well go south on ya in a hurry..
2nd choice wold be UHMW...

a WAG says that the tab bent from a lot of extra torquing during the need to move things while your mechanism was loaded up w/ so much crud...

so what wallowed out on/with the red arrow gear??? something did...
oh for the want of some periodic maintenance...

when will you have my full optioned out slingshot ready...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

forgot the link...
https://www.globalspec.com/Industrial-Directory/bronze_bushing_size


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

This is a Ridgid R4513 table saw. I suspect the gear has been wobbling since new because I’ve always seen the blade do the shimmy as it went up and down. Since day one. It’s very very slight, almost imperceptible but I caught it and now I think I know why. 

On the tab, yes, I was also wondering if resistance to movement didn’t bend it but I would think that plastic bushing would show signs of wear if that had happened. Everything looks new underneath as I clean it. The only wear I’ve seen was on the washer under the lock nut at the bottom of the shaft. I’m going to replace that. As for the bushing, when the saw is upright this bushing will be under pressure with it being at the bottom and it will or should see wear as the gears turn to lift the motor. So far I see none. It’s not even scratched that I can tell. If something has to wear I’d rather it be the bushing than the gear so if I go to brass, is it possible I’m creating an issue I don’t have now? I registered my saw when I bought it so I have the lifetime service agreement.
Hate to void that. I’m posting a pic of the bushing. 

Also at the bottom of the threaded shaft there is an area with no threads. The locknut and washer were loose fitting here as well. They weren’t flat down to the surface at all by about the distance of this non threaded gap. I wonder why that is there? There was nothing missing. I’m going to have to pull up an exploded diagram of parts to see what all is supposed to be there. Also I’m thinking they must have been in contact at one time or there would be no wear on that washer. The fit was far too loose. They backed off during use is what I believe.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Found exploded diagram. All parts are there. There is only the lock nut and washer below that tab and above it are the bushing and gear. I don’t know why that non threaded area is there because it is far wider than the thin washer. Personally I think Ridgid should have made this tab heavier and inserted a bearing here. Think how much smoother that would have made raising and lowering the blade!


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Oh I forgot, before anyone thinks that non threaded part is for where the shaft passes through the tab, it isn’t. The shaft it stepped to have a specific spot that seats in the hole in the tab. Like a built in bushing. The non threaded area is below this. I think I’m going to look for a bigger washer to fit here to keep the lock nut on the threads. Otherwise it will thread on down (up) into the area of no threads and it’s already thin itself.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

How about this? Dad had a can of it at his house and said he never could tell the difference in it vs the brake cleaner.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> How about this? Dad had a can of it at his house and said he never could tell the difference in it vs the brake cleaner.


nononononononon... get the brake cleaner and be done w/ it...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Weeeeeell.............it’s too late. I know I asked but I got giddy and went ahead and used it. It worked really well though. Wiped that stuff right off. Literally no effort and the rag came out pretty nasty! I removed one gear and detail cleaned it but could not get the other off because it required the shaft to be slid out and it would not come out even with all hinderances removed. It actually has a taper past a certain point. Would not come out backwards. Also removed the threaded shaft from the motor lift and thoroughly cleaned it.


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## OBG65 (May 5, 2018)

Another vote for the Blaster.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Weeeeeell.............


is this gonna be the take the clamps off too early like w/ your table top..???
clean w/ the brake cleaner...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

I get that but in this case it seems to have worked. Before it looked clean but still wasn’t. After cleaning with the stuff I used it now has no residue at all on it. 

In any case I don’t think it will matter. I won’t have 100% true cuts from this saw anyway. I noticed just now another thing that induces blade wobble as it’s raised and lowered. I noticed when I removed the threaded shaft from the motor lift to clean it that it had significant slop in the way it fit and threaded in. I wondered then if it would affect things but figured it was just how it is made (still think this). I figured the guides would hold the motor straight, not this shaft. After reassembling and running it up and down a few times I can see the shaft itself wobbles as the motor is lifted and lowered. The guides don’t hold it straight either. I can use my hand to actually wobble the motor itself while in place and not cranking at all. You might say wear has done this and it may have very well made it worse from the beginning but it has always had this wobble that I could see as I raised and lowered the blade, and I saw no metal shavings at all as I was cleaning it. The guides don’t even look worn, not even the thin sheet metal inserts they have. I think it’s simply engineered this loose, although the threaded rod is a steel shaft passing through an aluminum hole so there is the inevitable metal wear just from that. But the rest is steel to steel. 

So I’m gonna lube the mechanisms, put it back together and see what it will do, and either live with it or sell it and move on. This saw has not seen enough use in three years to have worn from a true and solid-state to the point it is now. I have owned it just now three years and it goes months at a time without seeing use. By months I mean most of the year at times. Truly it has only been used very lightly. If it had been bought for jobsite use and was used weekly or daily I could understand wear causing this but since it wasn’t then it was this way from the factory.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Went to Lowe’s after some of the PB Blaster dry lube. They were out of stock. So instead of a $5 large can I ended up with a $4 small bottle of 3-in-1 dry lube. Felt like I got ripped off...........until I tried it.

OH WOW, WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! 

What have I been missing!?!?!?

I want this stuff on everything I own that is mobile! My saw blade goes up and down so smoothly now it’s absolutely amazing. I lubed the gears and threaded shaft that raises it and watched it going down the shaft as it followed the threads. I lubed the tracks the guides ride in for raising the motor, and the pivot points that allow it to shift from 0-45 degrees, even the plastic gear teeth on the wheel that moves it. Then I put some of it in the tracks on the extension table. My saw feels brand new again, and the shimmy I described in the blade from before that was there since the saw is new, well that’s now gone or has been reduced to negligible if any is there at all. I attribute that to wobble in the moving parts from friction but since that is greatly reduced now it seems to have resolved the problem. I’m very impressed with this dry lube. I can see extensive cleaning of my shop coming and this being used everywhere possible.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

C'mon over and practice on my stuff -- then you'll know just exactly how to do yours.

I started using Tri Flow on the CNC -- moving parts seem to move better and I'm getting rid of all the sticky sawdust that had built up. Ace carries Tri Flow.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Some things I don’t understand. I spent probably two hours tweaking and squaring things in my tablesaw today. The blade was already dead on straight to the miter slots and that should have been enough for me. I’ve never had a problem getting useable cuts on it when using the fence, but the fence does not lock square to the miter tracks unless I manually force it to align before locking.

Now I can’t think of a single reason I need to use the fence and the miter tracks together other than with the gauge on a crosscut that I never do (miter saw does this). But I worked and worked to square the fence to the tracks and checked the blade front and back on the same tooth. It was good with the tracks as far as I could “feel” and measure but it was off on the same tooth at the rear of the blade by at least 1/128 to 1/64. Those are guesstimate numbers cause I didn’t measure precisely to see but I know it was less than 1/32. So.....reset to be square with the blade and now it’s off to the tracks again. But the blade measures square to the tracks. How can this be??? 

I’m using a Swanson square with a metal ruler checked for square against several other squares that are known to be true. But.....if I use the 4” and 2” marks, the fence gauge reads correctly compared to the square. If I use the 1” mark, it’s off a shade. Something is inconsistent somewhere. I’m not going to mess with it anymore because the adjustment screws use a hex head to turn them and both a 5/32 and a 4mm fit it and I can’t tell which for sure is right and BOTH have started to slip inside the hex recess, so.....I’m leaving well enough alone. I have it square enough I can cut wood within a frog hair of accurate (assuming blade runout doesn’t come into play or any other kind of vibration), and all I ever do with it is rip wood and I “might” eventually build a sled for some reason or another, but I dado and groove with a router and miter cut with a miter saw so why am I worrying about it so much? 

OCDism I guess.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Duane - 5/32" = 4mm so either hex key should be OK to use.

Your post is a little confusing, so I'll describe my process:

1. check that the blade is square to the miter slots on your table by placing your square in the slot, then run the blade of the square up against the blade on the TS. Mark the tooth with a magic marker. Ensure you are not bearing up against a tooth but use the flat of the TS blade.

2. rotate the blade to the back of the saw, slide your square to the back of the saw and check the same tooth again - you can use feeler gauges for this to determine how far out you are

3. if you are out, adjust your table square to the blade using your manual's instructions.

4. once that's done proceed to squaring the TS fence to the same slot, in the same manner described above.

5. when you place the square in the slot and bear it up against the TS fence, ensure you use the same amount of pressure, front and back.

6. if your fence is not square, adjust it using the method described in your manual. on my Bosch, there are two hex bolts that are used to to this.

7. some people toe the back of the fence out a couple of thousands to prevent kick back. this is better than having it toed in which will definitely cause kick back. others make the TS fence square front and back.

8. once you've done that, you can check the TS fence against the blade by combining the two methods; ie, your square against the blade, bring the TS fence against the other end of the blade of your square - check front and back.

9. if you've got a dial indicator, you can try to do this in place of your combination square - there are all kinds of videos on youtube showing how to make a holder for the dial indicator.

you mentioned something about not needing to use the tracks and the fence together. Hope you didn't mean using the miter gauge and the TS fence at the same time. That's bad. Never, never, never use the miter gauge and the TS fence together - you're just asking for trouble and it will find you. did I mention NEVER.

let us know how you make out.

Edit: if you're TS fence isn't locking square, then check the tension on the lock. can't remember what type of fence is on your TS so you'll have to check that too


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Could it be that there's something deposited on the blade mount that is throwing the blade off a bit? I'd clean it up carefully with a blade cleaner. I don't count on a combination square and use a dial caliper made for the purpose. There are too many things that throw the combination square off slightly. 

I have a similar problem with the fence shifting slightly because the T square function is only right on when the T is pulled toward the front rail before locking it down. I have my fence set slightly out from the blade a measured 4/1000 at the far end. In doing this setup using a Woodpecker dial gauge, it turns out my fence is not perfectly straight but bulges a couple of thousandths toward the middle, not enough to matter.

The big thing for me is remembering to check the blade for 90 with a Wixey Digital angle gauge whenever I fiddle with anything on the saw.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> *Could it be that there's something deposited on the blade mount that is throwing the blade off a bit? *I'd clean it up carefully with a blade cleaner. I don't count on a combination square and use a dial caliper made for the purpose. There are too many things that throw the combination square off slightly.
> 
> I have a similar problem with the fence shifting slightly because the T square function is only right on when the T is pulled toward the front rail before locking it down. I have my fence set slightly out from the blade a measured 4/1000 at the far end. In doing this setup using a Woodpecker dial gauge, it turns out my fence is not perfectly straight but bulges a couple of thousandths toward the middle, not enough to matter.
> 
> The big thing for me is remembering to check the blade for 90 with a Wixey Digital angle gauge whenever I fiddle with anything on the saw.


Duane said the blade is good but the fence is the issue..



> The blade was already dead on straight to the miter slots and that should have been enough for me. I’ve never had a problem getting useable cuts on it when using the fence, but the fence does not lock square to the miter tracks unless I manually force it to align before locking.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes the blade is good. It is dead on to both miter slots. Since my last post I attempted to adjust the fence again (and in the process I got my back pain flared up again, spent too long bent over it). I can adjust it dead on but when I tighten the screws it seems to move about 1/64 or so. That drives me nuts, but if nothing else it is at least out in a way that allows for a little wider exit than entry so right now I could use it and not get kickback from that. 

I’ll get the manual and read the procedure plus use the method described above. Never occurred to me to use the square between the fence and blade while it is also in the miter track. I checked them individually. I haven’t looked at the manual yet. I’m bad about just diving in on stuff but there are only 4 screws to loosen from the top so I believe that has to be how it’s done.

As of now everything is clean like new based on my recent cleanup and lube. There’s nothing I can see throwing the blade off, but I will look again to be sure. But as said, I could not ask for better alignment from the blade to the slots. If there’s anything inaccurate there I don’t have the ability to see it or measure it. I don’t own a dial caliper. Just metal rulers, squares, and one 6” digital caliper.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Yes the blade is good. It is dead on to both miter slots. Since my last post I attempted to *adjust the fence* again (and in the process I got my back pain flared up again, spent too long bent over it). *I can adjust it dead on but when I tighten the screws it seems to move about 1/64 or so*. That drives me nuts, but if nothing else it is at least out in a way that allows for a little wider exit than entry so right now I could use it and not get kickback from that.
> 
> I’ll get the manual and read the procedure plus use the method described above. Never occurred to me to use the square between the fence and blade while it is also in the miter track. I checked them individually. I haven’t looked at the manual yet. I’m bad about just diving in on stuff but there are only 4 screws to loosen from the top so I believe that has to be how it’s done.
> 
> As of now everything is clean like new based on my recent cleanup and lube. There’s nothing I can see throwing the blade off, but I will look again to be sure. But as said, I could not ask for better alignment from the blade to the slots. If there’s anything inaccurate there I don’t have the ability to see it or measure it. I don’t own a dial caliper. Just metal rulers, squares, and one 6” digital caliper.


Duane - so I looked back through the thread to see what TS you had, then found your manual on line. As I mentioned, if the fence is moving when you lock it down, check the tension on the rear lock. From page 41 of your manual, there is an "adjusting screw" that locks the fence in at the rear - check the alignment and/or tension on that screw to see if you can remove the movement on locking. If you've got your fence adjusted square, I would lock down the fence then play with that rear screw to remove the play in the fence.

Whew - I don't like reading manuals so please don't make me read yours again.:grin:


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

1/64" ? Really?


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes I’m OCD like that. It might be 1/32. I know it’s less than a 1/16, and looks like less than half of a 1/16. 

I got my manual and read it. The four adjustment screws I was turning was the way to do it. I also might have the adjustment nut too tight. I’ll look again when my back feels better. I did try the square between the fence and the blade with it in the miter slot. Blade to slot is perfect, but to the fence it is not. Sliding it with the fence unlocked it is perfect but when I lock it it gets loose towards the rear of the blade as I slide the square from front to back. If the square is in the rear position when I lock the fence then I am unable to slide it forward. Definitely a fence problem.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Ok, I messed with it some more and found out which two of the four screws in the fence are causing me an issue. My Aleve hasn’t worn off yet but I can feel my back aching some anyway. But I had to know. As you read this I apologize for all the confusion in this thread. I’m sure my back pain has contributed to me not seeing things or doing things just right.

Thinking the blade and miter slots are perfect I tried again to align the fence to one slot. I figured this is easier than fussing with measuring off of the same saw blade tooth throughout the process. So I loosened the fence screws, then locked the fence down flush to the edge of the miter slot. Tightened one screw at a time and checked it each time. Outer two screws were fine but tightening the two middle ones forced the fence out of parallel to the slot. Nothing can be done here, they’re either loose and it’s parallel or they’re tight and it’s crooked. From end to end of the fence across the table it looks about 1/16 off compared to the slot. I didn’t measure this but it’s easy to see. But in the area of the blade the fence is DEAD DEAD DEAD square to the same saw tooth, front and back. So how can this be if the blade is parallel to the slot?

I decided to check the blade/slot alignment one more time. I also realize I’m using a steel ruler freehand and just eyeballing the lines but I took great pains to do it as precision as possible, even checking the end of the ruler for squareness so I could rely on it against the fence and slot. I got a super bright LED light and put another metal ruler in the slot on end, straight up and down to reference the edge. I used my ruler to measure against this back to the same saw blade tooth in front and back and as best I can see the blade is off literally only 1/64. I say that because it measured between 3 inches and 29/32 to 30/32 in back, and right at 3 inches and 30/32 in front. My ruler is 1/32 marked and the tooth was between marks in the back, so that’s 1/64 difference. I know I left room for error doing it this way but it’s all I have to work with. Previously I had put a combo square in the slot and let it touch the blade as I slid it. It seemed to be perfect, but maybe 1/64 off lets it move ever so slightly and I didn’t see or feel it. I don’t know. Also this had shown clearly before that the fence was off to the blade, but after this last adjustment it came out just right somehow as far as the fence and blade alignment. 

So considering I observed about a 1/64 difference in the blade to the slot this last time, can I conclude that if I had a line drawn along the axis of the blade that it would possibly be around a 1/16 off compared to the miter slot as it crosses the table? I think so. That’s just 4/64 in about a 2’ width, and I’m measuring 1/64 in less than a 10” width (blade is not at full height so I’m nowhere close to its center). And even if I adjusted this out of it with the trunions, as I observed tightening the screws in the fence I cannot fix the fence unless something else is done. So I may as well let it be. I can rip nice straight pieces now with precision. I don’t use the miter slots and never have. I like the idea though, and a 1/64 difference seems negligible as you cross the blade, but since it may be a full 1/16 end to end, would this be a problem if I ever made a sled? Or am I just fretting too much? 1/64 does feel sort of picky but I read all the time where people shoot for even tighter tolerances.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Duane...I think you've said it in a previous post...*"Now I can’t think of a single reason I need to use the fence and the miter tracks together"*

The most important measurement is blade to track...and it sounds like you've got that down pat...you are not likely to ever use the track and the fence as it is likely to create a "trapped wood" issue. If you use a sled, you will not need the fence...if you are using a miter gauge, again, you will not use the fence.

On the other hand, if you are using the fence it will need to be aligned to the blade (to your preference)...either dead zero front to back or a bit out at the far end for a few thousands clearance.

You could also look up "short fence" to see the advantages of using that with a miter gauge, for example. It avoids trapping wood after the cutting edge of the blade has done its job.

Maybe you know this already...?


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