# Out of the Closet



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I didn't want you all to think I had given up wood working so I thought I'd post what I have been up to. The latest project is a bedroom and closet make over. We are far from done yet but I got the spouse on board helping me this time so it's sort of fun having an "apprentice". 

The pictures show the room and closet before we started and after we painted. I bought some 3/4" Oak Veneer particle core plywood to make the closet organizer. I got the idea from an issue of The Family Handyman. My plans are a little different from theirs but same idea.

Harry I'll apologize right now, I haven't done a full photo shoot because I really had no idea how this was going to turn out and I feared the worst. This is my first BIG project. But things have gone better then expected in all aspects of the project so far so I'll give you what I have. 

Cutting the plywood in my little shop was a challenge. That particle core wood is HEAVY and awkward. Next time I will buy veneer core. Did all the rough cuts with the circular saw and the finish cuts on the table saw, miter saw and even the router. We did the necessary veneer edge banding and sanding and we are now at the staining stage. The darker pieces have 2 coats of stain. It will be two coats of Minwax Golden Oak wood stain and one coat of Minwax Poly Satin Finish. The drawers will be made from white melamine MDF with wood fronts. 

I don't expect to be finished for a couple of more weeks yet. The staining and poly are slow processes. Then there will be the drilling for the dowels to hold it all together and the drilling for the shelf pins. I haven't even started on the drawers yet. 

There is satisfaction to doing it yourself, and having the spouse help makes it fun but I don't know if I am saving any money this way as opposed to buying a commercially built one or a pre fab one. The cost keeps escalating, even without including labour. You wouldn't want to do this out of solid wood. :sad:


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Looking good Deb. I like the new track lighting you installed. Kool.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Looks nice and am jealous. 

My Wife installed one of the store bought wire shelf and basket kits over the last year and I really wish it was made of wood when I see a project like yours. It might end up costing as much as one of the store bought ones but you will have the Pride of doing it and end up with a custom, non all particle board one like all the so called wood ones I saw at Lowes and Home Depot were. Melamine with fake wood grain for the most part I seem to remember. I think it will still end up costing a lot less than a custom or semi-custom built one.

Glad you can call it fun working with your spouse. The air can turn pretty blue when the two of us work together as both are stubborn and expect the other to know what we are thinking. But we still do lots of projects together and She is constantly helping me either do things or figuring it out when I am stuck now. Circular saw cuts are Her job (I am afraid I am going to trip while using it) while routing and table saw stuff is my job. Both grab the nailer or the drills (at Christmas the new 19.2 drill came with both of our names on it from Her parent's and She calls it HER drill).

One thing we have been doing is having Home Depot cut the plywood down to manageable sizes that are close to the final dimensions we want. Our HD seems to have a decent saw and does nice straight cuts and as many as we want without charging us the extra amount after so many cuts like they are supposed to. But I have heard of others complaining about HD's saws being out of alignment as much as 1" over the length of a cut.

What She does is normally have them cut a 4x8 sheet into 4 sections of 2x4, with the grain running the long way. A few times She has just had them cut it in half the long way. The one time she need 1/4" She went to Lowes (closer) and their saw was down so they sold her two 4x4 sheets for the price of a 4x8. This was only for covering the bottom of the truck bed as my Dad was worried about breaking the plastic liner tossing firewood in it when it was very cold. Since been turned into the panels in two cabinet doors (ugly looking and needs to be totally remade) and a magazine rack for the back door of a bathroom cabinet. Lots of it left yet, probably still enough to cover the whole truck box.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks guys. We have our "moments" in the shop, but it goes pretty good for the most part. The spouse is a Capricorn and highly organized, I am a messy disorganized Libra so you can see where the both the friction and the harmony come in.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"Harry I'll apologize right now, I haven't done a full photo shoot because I really had no idea how this was going to turn out and I feared the worst. This is my first BIG project."

Deb, the whole idea of photo shoots is to show errors as well as successes and how they were overcome! I really do admire you, there seems nothing that you're not prepared to have a go at.
I'm sure that many perfect looking projects posted did not go as smoothly as we're led to believe, newcomers to woodworking run the risk of thinking everything we do works out perfectly and it would ease their minds to know that this isn't so!


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

DerekO said:


> a magazine rack for the back door of a bathroom cabinet.


Love it, Derek ! Seen plenty of stacks of woodworking mags on the floor there, but their own rack, that's planning !

Cheers

Peter


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

That's going to turn out nice, Deb. I was doing a couple of wardrobes last month for someone else and was very frustrated when I came to fit them and discovered a variation in the ceiling height I hadn't spotted when I measured up :-(

Cheers

Peter


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## Larry Strawson (Feb 11, 2009)

Nice work Deb, the gratification you receive from doing it yourself is worth way more than than the money you save buying a prebuilt one.

Keep up the great work

Larry


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

istracpsboss said:


> Love it, Derek ! Seen plenty of stacks of woodworking mags on the floor there, but their own rack, that's planning !
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter


Still can't figure out how to attach it to the back of the door.  It is 1/4" plywood. My Wife suggests double-sided foam backed tape, but hasn't bought any to try it out yet. So the magazines are still on the counter, sliding into the sink or onto the floor.  The floor is the worst as then they make the floor a danger zone for sliding and tripping because of the slick surface.



harrysin said:


> I'm sure that many perfect looking projects posted did not go as smoothly as we're led to believe, newcomers to woodworking run the risk of thinking everything we do works out perfectly and it would ease their minds to know that this isn't so!


My projects will be perfect examples of what can go wrong.  Just gotta get my Wife to take the latest pics off the camera so I can upload the good and the bad.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Derek.. if drilling two holes into the back of the door isn't out of the question. a French cleat might serve the purpose nicely.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Derek.. if drilling two holes into the back of the door isn't out of the question. a French cleat might serve the purpose nicely.


I'll have to second this one.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Harry there were no mistakes to report UNTIL I left the spouse alone this weekend. Seems a pot of stain got dropped on the floor. I now have "Golden Oak" on a lot of things I didn't plan to have it on in the shop. Possibly even in the table saw motor. 
I'm going to give it a day or two to dry before I fire it up.
But the spouse did finish the staining so we'll be starting the poly coat this week. I wish I had as much faith in my abilities as you all give me credit for. But I will try to document projects better from now on as you are right Harry, we can all learn from other's mistakes as well as successes.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Derek I vote for the French cleat as well!


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I said cleat too, but She doesn't trust them. She says She just doesn't understand how they work no matter how many links I send Her or how many tv shows I show Her with them. 

I have thought about routing a 1/4" track into two boards, nailing/screwing those to the back of the board and gluing/brad nailing the side boards of the rack into those two boards.

I did see the last shopping trip included double sided foam tape so I guess She is going to try that.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

*Update*

Progress is slow but we are still at it. The mistakes are in full bloom now and yes I'll own up to them. 
Got the shoe rack portion finished. I am assembling this unit with dowels and a cabinetmaker friend suggested I try the Wolfcraft Dowel Quick jig. It's cheap and it looks cheesy and I was pretty skeptical, but I gave it a try and WOW it works GREAT! :sold: It makes lining up dowels really simple and accurate. In my excitement I forgot to add the nailers to the shoe rack so I ended up having to use screws to attach them. :sad: I also forgot to drill the peg holes for the 3 adjustable shelves BEFORE assembly,:nono: but it wasn't a problem putting them in afterwards. And I didn't use a stop collar when drilling the peg holes so inevitably I went through the side of the cabinet on one hole. I managed a decent repair on it. 
It was on to the main cabinet and because all the shelves are fixed there were LOTS of dowel holes to drill. There were a couple of minor mistakes so there are a few extra dowel holes but they are covered by the shelves and drawer dust covers  We have it assembled as a dry fit for the moment and amazingingly, IT FIT TOGETHER! :yes4: Still have to drill the dowels for the nailers BEFORE we glue it together this time.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Looks good Deb, I am sure it will turn out better than you think. You and I are such critics of our own work!! I am watching with anticipation of an exceptional project as I will be resurrecting the down stairs bath and store room shelving. I have 30 2X4X10' under the Jeep (running out of room to store materials and park the Jeep indoors. No the Jeep will not be parked outside, I will just work around it).

Harry you are correct, I for one do not properly document a project by showing how I work through problems and mistakes. I think one reason is when the problems arise I go into the damage control mode and the last thing I think about is taking pictures. I mean who wants to take pictures of the ship sinking??!! I’ll work on that one!

Keep us posted Deb, it looks like a good project.


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## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Nice work Deb. It's great to do a project you will use frequently use and enjoy over time. I never document my woodworking mistakes because my camera and computer photo gallery just doesn't have the capacity! Lol. Hope we can see the completed project when you are finished.


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

Nice work Deb, a closet makeover will be in my future because we have wire shelving right now and there is a lot of dead space we are wasting. 

By the way, are you using Google Sketchup or what program are you using to visualize your work? I've noticed more and more woodworkers are using Sketchup and have seen some pretty creative stuff.


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## idahofiregod (Feb 14, 2010)

That's a great project. My wife and I just bought a new (to us) house and when the built the closets, they must have overlooked the size of the hangers as the closets aren't wide enough to close the doors.

Your shelving setup looks impressive!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks guys. I am really pleased with the way it's coming along. I might as well admit it right now I made one HUGE mistake at the outset of this. I only measured the closet once, and not very well apparently. It could be a little tight when I get it all in there.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Paulo I am using Google Sketch Up. I haven't quite mastered it yet but I have figured it out enough to get dimensions and a good visual of what I am trying to achieve.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Just a quick update on our progress today. I only got one blurry picture before my camera died.  So far so good!


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Deb, get the camera fixed, but don't fix the closet. It looks great the way it is.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

idahofiregod said:


> That's a great project. My wife and I just bought a new (to us) house and when the built the closets, they must have overlooked the size of the hangers as the closets aren't wide enough to close the doors.
> 
> Your shelving setup looks impressive!



How old is the house?

Just have to go back to the plain old style wire hangers and bend them. :jester:


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

CanuckGal said:


> Just a quick update on our progress today. I only got one blurry picture before my camera died.  So far so good!


I really like it. It is so much better than out wire shelf/basket one. So, so much better. 

Doing a closet like that and hopefully later on kitchen cabinets and built-in stuff for the new house (if it ever happens, supposed to be about 18 months now) is why I am working so hard at trying to learn how to do things.

If I get it to look like that, I will be happy.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Derek I read and reread and reread the article on building this in The Family Handyman for about 3 months before I attempted it. I didn't trust my abilities at all. Silly me, it was not anywhere near as hard as I was thinking. When I realized I was going to have to use dowels instead of screws because of the particle core ply I was all freaked out again. And once again it was no where near as difficult as I thought. The most difficult part of this project so far has been making time to get it done. Having said that I may be eating those words as I am off to the shop to make the drawers. 
I think making a plan and a cutlist with Sketchup makes everything a WHOLE lot easier.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Nice job Deb on the closet. AT first glance at the subject heading I said to myself on my god what is she up to and then silly me of course redoing her closet. 

The oak looks nice.

The other option over dowels is biscuit joints. But I am glad the doweling jig worked out so well for you.

Way to tackle a project and get er done! Must have been nice working with the spouse. I would like to have my wife get into the finishing aspect as I hate doing it but it is the most important part of the project.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

HAHA Thanks Dan. I knew the title would be the hook.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

CanuckGal said:


> Derek I read and reread and reread the article on building this in The Family Handyman for about 3 months before I attempted it. I didn't trust my abilities at all. Silly me, it was not anywhere near as hard as I was thinking. When I realized I was going to have to use dowels instead of screws because of the particle core ply I was all freaked out again. And once again it was no where near as difficult as I thought. The most difficult part of this project so far has been making time to get it done. Having said that I may be eating those words as I am off to the shop to make the drawers.
> I think making a plan and a cutlist with Sketchup makes everything a WHOLE lot easier.


I think I am going to be subscribing to that magazine. The issue I bought to get the Harbor Freight coupon looked pretty good.

I don't have any drawing skills at all and didn't understand Sketchup at all when I played with it, but then I never understand any of those type of programs. If I am building any thing or cutting anything other than a couple of pieces I do ask my Wife to come over and help me think it through and draw me out a cut list. Found that helped a lot, just like you did.

Glad you figured out the doweling. I got a doweling jig the second trip to Harbor freight, and a marking kit the first trip. I was helping get ready to move a shelf and a cabinet around and saw the box for the doweling jig. I thought it was going to be hard to use too, but it worked pretty slick.

I haven't used it in any projects yet, just drilled some holes in scrap while She had gone back to the computer to print out the next return and then put the dowels in and asked Her how it looked. Before I was always screw it if possible or nail it. Now I might try the doweling out sometime.


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## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

I know how you feel Deb. Everything new is a challenge and the fear sets in. But if you just dive into it, things tend to go pretty well because everything happens a step at a time and that gives you time to think it through and get it right (most of the time). Like Maggie Thatcher said "fortune favors the brave" 

Your project looks great so far and I'm sure you will do as well on the drawers. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished project.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

*Patience is NOT my Virtue!*

Because the spouse is working night shift, and the closet is in the room next to our bedroom I am not getting very far very fast with this project. I can't very well stay up all night as I am sure the neighbours would not appreciate the sawing and pounding at 3:00 a.m. By the time the spouse gets up, there's supper to make, some MINOR house cleaning to do, etc etc, which leaves only a couple of hours in the evening when I am tired from a long day of BEING QUIET. Then things go bad like the wall anchors just not working the way they are supposed to. By that time I am ready to scream cause it feels like I will never get this thing finished. I just exploded on the poor spouse tonight after losing the battles with the wall anchors. :'(

I have the drawers made and in (that actually went will with the exception of the iron on edge banding), just not the fronts on them yet. And I can't get the rods up or the top shelf till I solve the wall anchor problem as there are no studs where I need them. :blink:

All I can tell you is so far I KNOW I will never buy particle board core anything ever again. And I will avoid iron on edge banding at all costs. And if anyone knows of a fool proof wall anchor for 1/2" drywall PLEASE let me know. The ones below don't work worth a damn.:angry:


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Use the ones that split wide open once you get them into the wall.

On Ask This Old House Tommy said that style was for plaster and to use the bolts with wings style for drywall.

Will post a link or pic if I find one.

Sorry to hear it has been frustrating.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/43505/Wej-IT_TBM1450_Bolt is a link to the style. Just grabbed the quickest one I could find off of google's shopping search. Toggle bolt is what I remembered to search for right after closing this message the first time.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

*It's Finished!*

Today I put the final touches on the closet. Things didn't go so well toward the end and I am really seeing all the mistakes rear their ugly heads now. Some very bad finishing, crooked drawers, etc. I may be able to patch some of it up down the road, but I am disappointed. 
I'm going to work on some smaller projects for a while till I hone some of my skills a little more.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Deb, Deb, Deb... those are NOT mistakes, ,just learning opportunities *S* The only real mistake you could have made was not to have tested your skills in the first place. A block plane would even those drawers right up. Either a even space between em all, or even gluing up a spacer once you get em square. Finishes drive me crazy. Alot of the time, your fate is in the hands of the wood working gods. A bad patch of wood, oil from your hand, just the nature of the wood...enough to drive ya nuts.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks Bill. The block plane won't do it as the fronts are edge banded oak particle core boards. That's another lesson, use solid wood for the drawer fronts. I was going to do that but changed my mind mid stream. Bad idea. I used some double sided tape I bought at a surplus store to line up the fronts. The stuff is like super glue. Once I got them on there there was no moving them. We tried and ruined one drawer. I had to remake it. The drawers are just 1/2" melamine coated particle core too. That's the reason I said I would never buy particle core anything ever again. When trying to pull the front off we literally pulled the dowels right through the drawer insides. But the damn tape held.  Ended up having to "cut" them apart. 
I got some lessons on finishing at the Canadian Home Workshop show this weekend. Hendrik Varju did a seminar and I learned everything I did wrong. And I pretty much did EVERYTHING wrong. 
I suspect this will bug me until I fix it. There may be new drawers with solid wood fronts yet.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

There ya go!!!! Its all good!!!

Now, IF you wanted that tape to work that well, do you think it would have? NOOOOOooo

Its great you had a chance to actually spend some time in a workshop! I only wish there were more of them where I'm at. SW Pa.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I figure instead of measure once, cut twice it is make 2 prototypes for one good 

It is very easy to find the faults in something that we do, when others might never even notice that something is wrong.


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