# skis for neophytes



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

..


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## jjciesla (Oct 20, 2007)

Nicely done ALLTHUNBS. I assume your knee isn't pressing lightly on the kill switch now.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

AT's, I'm pleased that you have entered the wonderful world of ski routing, the only thing I can add to your post is regarding visibility, I fitted a light to my router and it made an enormous difference.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*skis update*

Harrysin: the light is an excellent idea. At present I've moved my raunchy module out into the daylight to take advantage of the natural light.

jjciesla: Yup, my knee is still on the kill switch. I may have gained confidence but I have two of these monsters (Hitachi M12V) and given that they're more powerful than my tablesaw, yup, they're permanently attached to the kill switch.

Now to the updates. Yesterday I was routing some pockets that would serve as a guide for cross members and to stiffen a project. The skis were the perfect choice for the work. I had used the radial arm saw to cut a start and end kerf and proceeded to remove material between those kerfs with the router. Now, everything went perfectly smoothly. A real confidence booster.

Today, I decided to see how far I could push this concept. I needed to cut some 48 pockets, 1/2" deep, 3/8" wide and 1 1/2" long. These are to accept battens. Now, I could have used a template and guide (Template Tom's method) but instead I chose Harrysin's method -- freehand with skis.

Ok, I'll try anything once.

Now, I have a 5/16" spiral bit (I said I had some weird sizes) so I chucked it up. 

Yesterday, I held the left ski pretty much stationary and moved the right ski. I also planted myself firmly square to the skis. My feet were as if encased in concrete. I would proceed with a cut and get a face full of chips.

Today I got smart -- well sort of anyway. Instead of parking in harm's way, I stepped to the side. Suddenly I saw Bob Rosendahl's philosophy staring me in the face. The router doesn't have to be square to the work as long as it's square to the table surface. So, the skis can be anywhere and oriented in any direction relative to the workpiece. Instead of controlling the cutting square on, I kept a ski between myself and the router bit and peered over the top of the ski. I sighted across the ski and the edge of the bit and put the cut line on that sighting - sort of like using a gun. The control of the skis was light enough that I could maintain that sighting and route a fairly straight edge. I couldn't do as well with a chisel as I did with the skis and router.

Now, I also did something else here. Rather than use a pencil to mark the locations of my pockets, I used an Olfa knife (AKA a very sharp utility knife) and scored where my pockets would go. I did this on every piece. I also used a morticing gauge to set the length of the cut.

Turn on the router, position the bit and start working into the cut. If I stayed proud of the score, I would get feathering but if I moved right up to the score mark, I got a clean, even cut. I positioned myself directly in line with the line to be cut to. I moved the router down along the line, pulling it gently toward me. The only time I ran into the slightest difficulty was with a knot that was tight but the center of the knot was rotten. The router was accustomed to working through the tight part of the knot and when it hit the rotten part, it sort of moved quicker - I'm not saying it jumped - it wasn't that extreme.

Now, Harry, is it possible to set the router at an angle from vertical in skis and route an angled groove?


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## BobSch (Sep 11, 2004)

Does anyone use anything like a low-friction tape like woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=902 on the bottom of their sled to make it easier to move?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Bob

I tried some but I could not get it to stick/stay in place.. 

It wanted to roll up on the ends and did readjust the height of the router..
so now I just use the skis clean...they slide very well  on the router table, that's what I use with a drop in plate to hold the stock in place..

=======



BobSch said:


> Does anyone use anything like a low-friction tape like woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=902 on the bottom of their sled to make it easier to move?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Allthumbs,

Read your post with great interest.

I have a couple of question, if you don't mind.

1. What size were the skis?
2. What size rods did you use?
and
3. I got the impression that you let go the router handles and pushed the actual skis around, was this correct?

Do any other members push the skis or the handles?

James


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

James, what am I to do with you, I thought you had been following the ski threads. With a ski set-up, the assembly is operated by the ski ends, this gives a great deal of leverage enabling very accurate movement of the router. If the assembly were to be operated by the router, the pressure would make small differences in the depth of cut.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Harry,



> James, what am I to do with you,


mea culpa, mea culpa.............

Being the simple person I am, I just assumed one would use the router handles.

If one used HEAVY rods as advocated by some, there should be no dipping..LOL

This thread was the first one I can recall that actually mentioned hands on skis...

James


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"This thread was the first one I can recall that actually mentioned hands on skis..."

I have talked about it on numerous occasions James. Regarding the diameter of the rods, this is decided by the dia. of the side fence holes in the router.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*Answers - no update this time*

BobSch: 

You were asking about low friction tape. My feeling is that I want more friction. I have a laminate covered router table and another module that is just covered with a piece of fir plywood. It's dirty, uneven, and generally pretty much abused. This turns out to be my preferred workplace for skis. I move the skis deliberately. I never end up compensating for too much movement. Before attempting to reduce friction, try a high friction environment first.

jw2170:

1. What size were the skis?
2. What size rods did you use?

I'm using a Hitachi M12V. This dictates that my rods be 12mm thick. I took the width of my router table at 24", gave myself a bit of play on the sides and opted for 18" rods. They are threaded. I locked the router in the middle of the rods with the thumb screws that came with the router. They are brass so they don't do too much damage to the rods. Now, I took a scrap piece of 1/2" birch plywood, chopped it into two 7"x9" pieces and cut two slots in each. Then I got a bunch of really big washers and nuts and placed the boards on the ends of the rods, squared the whole thing to the table and tightened. The washers provide lots of contact surface to "grip" the skis.

After some searching, I have finally found some 12mm x 1mm thread wingnuts. I prefer the wingnuts but I continue to use the washers.

3. I got the impression that you let go the router handles and pushed the actual skis around, was this correct?

Yes! This was the hard part for me to figure. I started with both hands on the handles and plunging but the rods deflected enough to throw any form of measurement out of whack. 

I started again. 

I used my baseplate put on top of the workpiece to set the height of the skis and locked the skis. The baseplate thickness keeps the router off the workpiece by about 3/16". I took the baseplate out of the way.

I set the plunge depth of the router again but this time I used Bob Rosendahl's instant measuring technique to set the material depth to be left. I moved the router off to the side and started it up, holding on to the handles. One hand at a time, I moved my hands to the skis and moved the router bit into the workpiece.

Originally, I fixed the left side ski, using the heal of my hand, on the work bench as a hinge and moved the router with my right hand. The next group of cuts, I pushed the left ski away from me and kept the right ski close to me. Watch that you don't get your sleeve caught in the router. I peered over the top of the right ski and used the router as a carving tool moving both skis at the same time. Much nicer work and less bothersome without chips being flung in one's face.

Now, major stuff here!!! You take little bites and let the router tell you what and how much it wants to do each pass. Take too much and you could have a screaming monster coming at you at 60 mph. (100 kph) I haven't tried it but I'm sure, take too much and it will either pull the skis out of your hands; bounce out of the workpiece; or, stop dead stuck into the workpiece. Use your common sense.

"Do any other members push the skis or the handles?"

Others will comment.

jw2170: "If one used HEAVY rods as advocated by some, there should be no dipping..LOL"

The thickness and strength of the rods is dictated by the guide holes in the router base. Alternatively you can build a baseplate with guide holes outside the router in which case you can use 2" pipe if you want. The router doesn't slide on the rods, it is actually fixed in place. I wouldn't entertain moving the router to any other position than dead centre between the skis.

"This thread was the first one I can recall that actually mentioned hands on skis..."

That's what originally puzzled me and thus this thread.

Harry: there are two sides to every communication. You attempted to communicate and you assumed that my thick skull would accept what you were trying to say. Unfortunately, my hands have a more direct route to my brain than my eyes do. My hands had to do the talking. But, thank you for educating my eyes. If you had not expended the patience and effort my hands would never have experimented with the concept.

Now, Harry, you have some explaining to do. What I've described above deals with skis. There is another set of skis that are sticks attached to the router base to "cruise over" material that has been removed. I.e. I'm removing a background from a relief carving that I'm doing. These "skis" ensure that the router doesn't dip into areas that have already been removed. Alternatively, I follow a template only to find that as I complete the cut, part of the template falls away. These "skis" keep the router perpendicular to the workpiece. What do you call these "skis" and how do you use them?

What's a router sledge?

To all: My thanks goes to Harrysin and all the other "old timers ;-)" for attempting to pass on to the "younger" generations some of their knowledge. I may seem critical of Harry but that is my abrupt style and in no way deminishes my admiration for his accomplishments. Thanks Harry!

Allthunbs


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*Skis - a photographic attempt*

..


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*Skis - a photographic attempt - part 2*

not enough room on the previous message for the last little bit.

Things I don't like:

1. my skis are too small at the base. The top is fine but I would feel better if the base were larger.

2. I don't like using the skis on the laminate top. It's too slipery. I have a module with a 1/4" douglas fir plywood top and it has just the right amount of friction for nice control.

3. If I could see better I could do a better job freehanding it. I'm trying to figure out some way of adding a magnifying glass and supplementary light. The problem is locating the aids without getting in the way of "seeing" what's going on and controlling the cut.

4. Chips flying in my face is somewhat annoying. Consider, if I added a dust port, magnifying glass, light -- there would be no room for the bit and the workpiece.

5. Managing the workpiece is a problem. I like Harry's method of holding the work but my projects have all been too big to fit his table and his clamping mechanism. I don't want to build a dedicated table for ski use so I'm open to suggestions.

I hope this helps with some of the questions you have raised.

Allthunbs


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Allthunbs.

That was an excellent photo record.

James


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

AT, because of the length of your post, I may have difficulty answering all your questions, but first let me congratulate you on making and trying the skis. I must confess that you make ski routing sound a very difficult operation, whereas I instantly took to it as being the easiest, most accurate and pleasant way to use the router. I'm surprised that you complain of getting showered with chips, I've never found that to be a problem. The light is a self contained one that swivels and cost here in Australia $4.00, I hear that identical ones can be had in America for $2.00. I used double sided sticky tape to attach mine. The photos. are self explanatory, the third shot of a very relaxed yours truly taken during my first year of ski routing shows that I normally use a laminex covered bench top and I have a strip of laminex under each ski end, the easier the assembly moves the better, for me anyway, you obviously feel differently. The other type of skis you mention are a mystery to me. I'm sure that once you reach the stage that the skis are an essential part of your armoury, you will make, or have made 12mm smooth rods, thus making set-up so much faster and easier.


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## Steve V. (Oct 5, 2008)

O.K., help a new guy out. From what I see you gain stability with skis and the ability to get down closer to view the work being done. Is that why one would use them?

Thanks,

Steve


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Steve

All I can say take a look at the last picture, that Harry posted , try that free hand or to say without the ski jig setup.

==========


Steve V. said:


> O.K., help a new guy out. From what I see you gain stability with skis and the ability to get down closer to view the work being done. Is that why one would use them?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Steve V wrote: 

"O.K., help a new guy out. Why would you not just free hand route like this with a plunge router?"

Accuracy! Add safety since you're not trying to manoeuvre (spelling?) a transport truck with a tiny steering wheel. 

"From what I see you gain stability with skis and the ability to get down closer to view the work being done. Is that why one would use them?""

Yup for the stability part but the getting down and dirty, only if that's what turns you on.

Harrysin: Thanks for the reply. I'd almost thought you might have been insulted -- I'm glad you're not. 

"I must confess that you make ski routing sound a very difficult operation, whereas I instantly took to it as being the easiest, most accurate and pleasant way to use the router."

Actully, it's not difficult but only to describe all aspects of construction and use that I observed during and after construction. I do have a tendency to examine things in the minutest detail before committing myself to something. My discipline (career) was to prepare for the worst and hope for the best -- somewhere between those two positions is reality.

"I'm surprised that you complain of getting showered with chips, I've never found that to be a problem. "

I go out to the garage in the morning at 7: a.m. it is dark and at the freezing mark. I have hat, jacket, sweater, shirt, t-shirt, pants and warm shoes. Get some sawdust or chips between the t-shirt and yourself and you itch all day. You can't take a shower and go back out in the cold so you're stuck itching.

The light is still a work in progress until I find the "just right" one. I'm as myopic as a bat without echolocation so even with the light vision is still a problem. I'm still looking for a magnifying glass solution.

"I have a strip of laminex under each ski end, the easier the assembly moves the better, for me anyway, you obviously feel differently."

Ok, this is a treat. I was afraid to lose control. I made a mistake and started the router too close to the workpiece during early experiments and I almost lost the router. I was on Formica. I found the fir plywood reduced the "skatability" of the formica. Also I keep the router table as slick as I can for fence work which would make it that much more dangerous. Ok, I'll go back and try that one again.

"The other type of skis you mention are a mystery to me. "

Oh well, I was hoping. I have found several different structures for different purposes around the net. The next time I bump into something I'll bring it back here.

I'm looking forward to making some with smooth rods but materials are so confusing here. i.e. I go to a metals shop and they have 12mm threaded but only 1/2" unthreaded. Go figure.

Thanks Harrysin for the input. I'll do more experimenting soon.

Allthunbs


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

> I'm looking forward to making some with smooth rods but materials are so confusing here. i.e. I go to a metals shop and they have 12mm threaded but only 1/2" unthreaded. Go figure.


Here is a site for all your metals needs. No matter what you need and these guys ship it right now, not when they get around to it, like a lot of other places now-a-days. So if you need solid steel rod... this is the place. The prices aren't bad either......

http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

AT, an alternative to 12mm rods would be to open up your routers holes to 1/2", I'm sure that Bj and myself wouldn't hesitate to do this.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI allthunbs

Nice job with photo shoot and the skis.

But I will say you using a D9 Cat.(router) when a Ford backhoe will do the job just fine,,  ,,,that's to say a 2HP router has all the power you will need.

In that way you don't need the big rods because you don't need to support the D9 Cat. 8lbs vs 15lbs.

Plus I will say that the rods are to short ,,you will in time find that out, most of the time the router is right on the top of the project so you don't need the rods to support the router just keep it from dropping off the edge of the project , I know Harry like the clean rods but the thread rod works just fine and on many jobs it works better, you can lock the skis in place with the nuts and it will act just like a fence on the router table.

If you thnk about it that's all the ski jig is , just a router table upside down.
I also don't hold on to the skis I hold on to the router, talking about the router your router has big handles and they are going to get in the way,your handles come off easy with one screw, I would replace them with some small ones made out of some hardwood..plus you should have a hole/slot in the skis so you plunge the router down..

I made the same error on the 1st.set I made, see my Gallery for the snapshots of the ones I have made..  5 total to date 

If you look real hard at Harry's , his are very short to over come that error.
But like you I made mine tall so I could get over tall stock/blocks and the hold down cam board.

Just as side note*** you can find all the hardware you need at http://www.mcmaster.com/ and with a tap & die set you can make your own rounds rods with threads on the ends only 



==



allthunbs said:


> not enough room on the previous message for the last little bit.
> 
> Things I don't like:
> 
> ...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Bob: Thanks for the comments.

"Nice job with photo shoot and the skis."

Thank you. I hope it will help others get a feel for skis.

"But I will say you using a D9 Cat.(router) when a Ford backhoe will do the job just fine,,  ,,,that's to say a 2HP router has all the power you will need."

I started with a Sears Craftsman something 1/4" router and the Rosendahl's were constantly using 1/2" bits. The Craftsman died and I couldn't get parts so I was able to sell the boss on getting a *"real"* router. So, now I can handle any size bit you can throw at me (3" bits are quite common in my shop). Then I ran across my little Makita 3601B "D" handle for small jobs ($12.50), the Makita 3700B trimmer for "light" jobs (free) and then someone dropped another M12V in my lap for $30-. The second M12V came with a bunch of bits, baseplates and guides. Sorry, I just couidn't turn it down. So now I have a D9, a JCB, a Kubota and I just couldn't resist, another D9 ;-) I needed a special garage for all of this so I just had to build a two-holer router table with a dedicated cabinet for "accessories."

"In that way you don't need the big rods because you don't need to support the D9 Cat. 8lbs vs 15lbs."

Ahhh, but my M12Vs work very nicely. Besides, something small and I'd get careless. Make it big, mean and dangerous and it'll always have my undivided attention!

"Plus I will say that the rods are to short ,,you will in time find that out, most of the time the router is right on the top of the project so you don't need the rods to support the router just keep it from dropping off the edge of the project , I know Harry like the clean rods but the thread rod works just fine and on many jobs it works better, you can lock the skis in place with the nuts and it will act just like a fence on the router table."

Oops. Do you have restrictions in place on the movements of the skis?

I figure if I put together one 18" threaded and one 30" (??? opinion please) smooth, that would do the job nicely. So far I've done nothing but material removal with my skis and nothing fancy. However, are you suggesting that it is favourable to move the router across the rods to different positions; or, alternatively, that you restrict the skis and move the router across the rods?

"If you thnk about it that's all the ski jig is , just a router table upside down.
I also don't hold on to the skis I hold on to the router, talking about the router your router has big handles and they are going to get in the way,your handles come off easy with one screw, I would replace them with some small ones made out of some hardwood..plus you should have a hole/slot in the skis so you plunge the router down.."

Ok, I've got to challenge your thinking here and I'm not being disrespectful but I'm trying to learn. I first tried the skis hanging onto the router for dear life and found that the rods deflected. I'm using grade 3 12mm threaded rod 18" long with the nuts torqued to about 40 ft lbs.. That's why I started hanging onto the skis. The only way I can see hanging onto the router is to plant my elbows firmly on the table and take a mug full of chips. I could see that if you held onto the router, the handles could become a problem as you move the router to the ends of the rods. However, if I lock the router on the rods and move the skis, the handles become less of a problem than the size of the table surface the skis are running on.

Why would I want to run a router so close to the ski that the handle would be in the way? Examples please - got pictures?

"I made the same error on the 1st.set I made, see my Gallery for the snapshots of the ones I have made..  5 total to date "

I can fully appreciate that tools of this nature are never "perfect" but need to be "tailored" for each job. I may make several but I fully expect that I'll continue to use all sizes available to me.

"If you look real hard at Harry's , his are very short to over come that error.
But like you I made mine tall so I could get over tall stock/blocks and the hold down cam board."

I have to confess that the height of mine was pure ignorance and laziness. I just chopped off a bit of plywood with the mitre saw. Cutting the other dimension would have required the table saw as well. I takes about 10 minutes to unbury and setup the table saw. I opted for the "quick and dirty" rather than the "elegant and polished."

"Just as side note*** you can find all the hardware you need at http://www.mcmaster.com/ and with a tap & die set you can make your own rounds rods with threads on the ends only "

I picked up a very small metric tap and die set today to be ready to cut 12mm threads when I get the rods. Now for the rods. I visited McMaster.com. I'll search locally first and as a last resort I'll order from across the border. Some organizations don't like shipping across the border.

In summary, Harry moves the skis without restriction. You restrict the skis (but not tying them down) and move the router? I've noticed that you both use a similar workpiece holding method. You use a light router, whereas Harry and I use a pretty heavy one. (His Makita could be a twin for my Hitachis). Harry prefers a slippery table whereas I prefer one with "sticksion" (I scared the ... out of myself!) What is your preference? I could not get a feel for the size of table you use but Harry I would guess about 36" square table?

Interesting discussion. Are there other ski users? I'd like their input please.

Allthunbs


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*found new skis*

Harrysin: take a look at these skis. The first photo was taken from "Router Tips & Techniques" by Robert Wearing and is used here for quotation and comment only and thus does not constitute breech of copyright.

The second is from the LeeWay Workshop "www.leestyron.com/sled.php" and he calls it a "router sled planer." Again, the photo is used here for quotation and comment only and thus does not constitute breech of copyright.

I've run across these before. Comments? My thinking is they would be very useful for template work. Where's Template Tom when you need him?

BTW, I discussed Bob's technique compared to Harry's with my wife. She has seen me with both techniques and her comments were quite insightful.

1. Moving the skis rather than the router increases the degree of control over the bit. I move a ski 1", the bit moves 1/2". This allows varying degrees of control from general to extreme. Move the router to the middle of the skis and you get 50% bit movement for 100% ski movement. (Not exactly, but you get the idea.) Move the router to the opposite end of the ski from the control end and you can control the bit in inrements of 1000 ths of an inch.

2. Moving the skis increases your vertical accuracy. When you man handle a router when it is on skis, you're constantly stressing the rods and throwing your bit out of square.

3. This one took me a few minutes to digest. "Using the skis keeps the router "in balance." Handling the router moves the centre of gravity high, potentially knocking the router "off balance."

4. When you manoever the router by the handles, you're crowding your workpiece and thus your visibility and perspective are hampered.

5. When you slide your router back and forth across the rods, the play in the rods is magnified in the workpiece.

Bob: this is in no way a challenge to the way you do things. You are in the perfect position to comment to allow the rest of us to learn your philosophy. I'm a neophyte trying to figure out the "best way" to use a router. You guys have the experience and knowledge. We've got to extract some of that from your grey matter and insert it into ours.

Thanks for all your help, gentlemen

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi allthunbs

I don't move the router over the rods, it's always locked in place, center the norm but it can be all the way to one side or the other

I just comes down to what I'm trying to do .
The ski setup in the picture I just don't get what you are trying to do with them..

I'm just a student , Tom is the teacher and Harry is Tom's number one student ,the pro's..Tom and Harry should post in on this one..I have my way and they have their way...
I took me a long time to get it down but now that I do it's FUN...

==========






allthunbs said:


> Harrysin: take a look at these skis. The first photo was taken from "Router Tips & Techniques" by Robert Wearing and is used here for quotation and comment only and thus does not constitute breech of copyright.
> 
> The second is from the LeeWay Workshop "www.leestyron.com/sled.php" and he calls it a "router sled planer." Again, the photo is used here for quotation and comment only and thus does not constitute breech of copyright.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I wish I had time to make the skis setup. I would gladly purchase a ready made either with or without a router. Obviously it would have to be made for a specific router if no router was included, but many jigs and fixtures do.

What is the approximate time line to set up the jig? I always wanted to set up a ski system, but actually forgot all about it as I have not been in this forum for a long while.

Nick


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> I wish I had time to make the skis setup. I would gladly purchase a ready made either with or without a router. Obviously it would have to be made for a specific router if no router was included, but many jigs and fixtures do.
> 
> What is the approximate time line to set up the jig? I always wanted to set up a ski system, but actually forgot all about it as I have not been in this forum for a long while.
> 
> Nick


Hi Nick: it took about 2 months to screw up enough courage to experiment. Once I made up my mind, a few days to source the parts (12mm drill rod is a real pain to find -- that's the size I needed) and then a few minutes to make the actual "skis" on the router table from scraps lying around. Don't forget you need nuts and washers. I used threaded rod to start.

Allthunbs


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I decided to give it a try again.

The last time I attempted it the drill rod came and they sent me the wrong size and I just never got back to it. Since, I have needed something like the skis for a few repairs.

I'll let you know how it works out for me.


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## Electron (May 22, 2008)

The two "skis" illustrated are of limited use and were probably made for a specific job. I'm close to starting a new project and the first thing I will do is plane a rough sawn slab of Sheoak which is uneven in thickness, with the ski mounted router. This way the wood will end up parallel to the bench. Because the bench is quite small, the router will plane about one half set towards one end of the rods then moved towards the other end for the second half. I have a router permanently set up on the skis. The only accurate way I have found to ensure the router will remain parallel to the bench is to measure the height of all four corners, sitting the router on a spacer as recently suggested by a member is not accurate.

Harry


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## yoxi5236 (Jul 7, 2008)

I agreed in building person's viewpoint, thought your viewpoint is very novel, also said that your idea has the value very much,thanks!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Electron said:


> The two "skis" illustrated are of limited use and were probably made for a specific job. I'm close to starting a new project and the first thing I will do is plane a rough sawn slab of Sheoak which is uneven in thickness, with the ski mounted router. This way the wood will end up parallel to the bench. Because the bench is quite small, the router will plane about one half set towards one end of the rods then moved towards the other end for the second half. I have a router permanently set up on the skis. The only accurate way I have found to ensure the router will remain parallel to the bench is to measure the height of all four corners, sitting the router on a spacer as recently suggested by a member is not accurate.
> 
> Harry


Hi Harry: Ok, questions:

#1, do you have Jointer/planer combination or do you prefer router to these two. 

#2, is this a particularly small project, too small for jointer/planer? 

You imply that the skis are a permanent part of your macro construction phase whereas I'm thinking it will best serve as part of the decoration or safety phase. i.e. rounding sharp edges like in maple, putting flutes into legs or other decorative functions.

I'm going to be putting together a 30" pair of skis and a 6" pair like the low, long skis in the pictures. The other pair seem to function too much like normal skis to warrant experimentation.

I can appreciate where the 30" pair would be called skis. But, if the second 6" pair serve well, what will they be called? "SHIIS"

I see a possibility for the long low skis. I was cutting out the baseplate space in my router table. My plunge router is heavy and powerful. As I muscled this beast around, my safety glasses started to fog up because I was wearing a mask. I lost my concentration for just a moment and the divit is permanent evidence. Had I had these "runners" in place, the router would have remained perfectly vertical and the divit would have not happened. So, it's worth an experiment. If they work, they will be part of my permanent template tools. I was on the Festool site last night and they have an elongated baseplate that accomplishes something similar but intended for use with bearings. The long low skis will accomplish the same thing.

Ok, that was me setting the router height with a spacer. Ok, here's the philosophy. I don't like to have the router sitting directly on the workpiece. It might throw out the actual alignment between table and router. I leave a gap so that the workpiece will have no influence on the height and levelness of the router. Are you implying that the gap between workpiece and router should be less or non-existant?

I have a series of setup blocks. Lee Valley # http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=45089&cat=1,240,41064 . Based on your comments, I should be using these setup blocks on the corners rather than the actual workpiece? You must remember, that I've already jointed and parallel planed the workpiece before I get to this stage.

I'm learning Harry, slowly, but I'm learning ;-) Thanks for the comments.

Allthunbs


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## Electron (May 22, 2008)

Yes I do have a 6" jointer and a 12.5" planer, but what good are these with a block of wood approx. 15" square and of uneven thickness like I'm currently working on. For set-up I use a dial caliper to check each corner, it takes very little time. Do please be aware that you have no obligation to use the skis, they have been presented as an alternative method of routing, and a very useful one at that,it is capable of solving problems that only hand tools or professional size machine tools would normally be capable of. The method has been used extensively over several years and even experienced woodworkers like Bj, who for a long time couldn't see the sense of skis, is now one of their biggest advocates.
I normally have from 1/4" to 1 1/2" space below the router depending on how deep a cut I'm going to rout. Finally, there are no rules as to the length, height or any other parameter, you design you own to suit your particular needs.

Harry


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Harry: Thanks for the reply.



Electron said:


> Yes I do have a 6" jointer and a 12.5" planer, but what good are these with a block of wood approx. 15" square and of uneven thickness like I'm currently working on.


Ok, now I see. The skis address a problem that no other tool can. So, it is purely personal choice (or lazyness on my part) as to what tool I choose. For me, it's typically the one that takes the least amount of time to dig out and setup.



Electron said:


> For set-up I use a dial caliper to check each corner, it takes very little time.


Hmmm, I don't have a dial caliper. My measuring blocks will have to do.



Electron said:


> Do please be aware that you have no obligation to use the skis, they have been presented as an alternative method of routing, and a very useful one at that,it is capable of solving problems that only hand tools or professional size machine tools would normally be capable of.


Understood, however, I'm asking questions because I need and want to know. I have a variety of projects that I will have to produce in a relatively short time frame. The skis may have a real niche in those plans. I can't be sure until I've explored every aspect of them. Right now I have the time to learn and I'm cramming just about everything I can get my hands on. If I seem too blunt, my appologies, but I have a short time to learn. 

At this point, I'm putting together two sets of skis, 18" (threaded) and 27" (smooth), one set of shiis and one foot. I've figured out a way to add a magnifying glass and light so experimentation to follow.

The shiis address a separate series of problems. Firstly, I need a bridge for template work. Secondly I need a lever point for freehand bearing work, i.e. 1/4 round on an edge. In both of these circumstances the router could sit on as little as 1/4 of it's baseplate. The function of the shiis is to add a leverage point or a bridging function for templates who's workpiece had fallen away. I ran into this when I was cutting the hole for the Oak Park table baseplate.

The foot is similar to the shiis in function but they would typically be used to keep the router square when using a template with edges but not necessarily for cutting all the way through.



Electron said:


> The method has been used extensively over several years and even experienced woodworkers like Bj, who for a long time couldn't see the sense of skis, is now one of their biggest advocates.


Yes, and I'm learning from all of you.



Electron said:


> I normally have from 1/4" to 1 1/2" space below the router depending on how deep a cut I'm going to rout.


So, the only function of that gap is to clear what is below and aid visibility depending on the situation. given the large hole I have in the M12Vs I would chose to keep the router close to the workpiece so I can see clearly. At the same time, I'm adding a light and a magnifying glass as well as handles to my next version. In your case, with the Porter Cable, the hole is small so you'd crank it up as high as you can and still keep the bit in contact with the work. In essence you look under the baseplate for guidance??? 



Electron said:


> Finally, there are no rules as to the length, height or any other parameter, you design you own to suit your particular needs.
> 
> Harry


I assumed that was the case. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to thread 12mm drill rod.

Thanks for all the information Harry. It is much appreciated.

Allthunbs


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## Electron (May 22, 2008)

In your case, with the Porter Cable, the hole is small 

Not so, I don't own a Porter Cable, I use a Makita 3600 with a hole as big as the Hitachi.

I do from time to time use a foot, similar to a ski end with short rods which, like the skis are height adjustable, but because I have a router permanently set up on skis, it's usually faster to use this method.
My current project uses ski, plunge, circle , and keyhole routing.


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## captain38 (Dec 23, 2008)

Hello All!!!
This has been a very insightful and helpful thread! I have the dewalt 2 1/4hp 618 plunge router, and I could not find what size of rod I would need. Anyone have any info on this?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Just measure the holes.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

captain38 said:


> Hello All!!!
> This has been a very insightful and helpful thread! I have the dewalt 2 1/4hp 618 plunge router, and I could not find what size of rod I would need. Anyone have any info on this?


As Nick said, there are two holes that go from one side of the router base to the other. It looks like they might be 3/8" or something like that. I'm looking at the picture on the dewalt site. You'll have to measure those. You should also have two holes for thumbscrews so that if you put a rod through the base, you can fix it in place. When I look at the picture I can just see what I think are two threaded holes on the top side of the base. These are probablly 1/4x20 or something like that. Take the router to your nearest hardware store and get a few short thumbscrews to fit, preferably in brass. While you're there, check to see if they have drill rod of that size and of the length you want to use.

I found drill rod at Metal Supermarkets. However, I had to wait for it to come from another store.

metalsupermarkets.com

Does this help?

Allthunbs


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## captain38 (Dec 23, 2008)

Thanks a ton!


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