# Electrolysis rust removal



## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

There was some interest in another thread on using electrolysis so I thought I'd post how/what I did on my PM jointer rather than hijacking that thread. I am certain you can Google this and find many variations to this process but this worked for me so I'm good with my method, but feel free to chime in and show how you've done this. 

A few years ago I picked up a PM 54A jointer found on CL. The jointer had been in a non-climate controlled storage building and subject to humidity so it had what I thought was surface rust. When I got it home I realized the rust was a little more than I had initially realized.

When I brought it home it looked like this (soaked with WD-40 in this photo) - 








Kind of heavy in some areas - 








Ugly spot there in front of the cutterhead, which doesn't look too good, either - 








Here's the cutterhead out of the jointer - 








What I have here is a towel wetted with water and baking soda. I don't remember how much but in a 5 gallon pail I think I used about 2 gallons of water and about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of baking soda. I wrung the towel out about 75% and placed a sacrificial sheet metal plate I picked up at Lowe's on top of the towel. Then I hooked my battery charger, one lead to the jointer and one to the metal plate. Then I placed some weight on the metal plate to make sure there was good contact. In this case I used some Honduras Mahogany cutoffs from some columns.








After about 3-4 minutes the amperage gauge goes to about nothing which indicates the towel is now dry and has done all it is going to do. This is after removing the towel and no additional effort applied to the bed other than using the same towel to wipe the bed where the rust was.








Far less rust, looks pretty good - 








Here's the cutterhead wrapped in a rag and with bailing wire wrapped tightly to make sure there is good contact. I hooked the leads up, gave it 3-4 minutes, and pulled the rag off.








Here's the cutterhead after Electrolysis and a little buffing with a Scotch-Brite pad - 








And here's the finished machine. Looks good, runs good, and not a lot of effort to clean up using this process.








Thanks for reading!
David


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## patlaw (Jan 4, 2010)

That's a great result. Does the positive lead go to the plate or to the rusted equipment?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> There was some interest in another thread on using electrolysis so I thought I'd post how/what I did on my PM jointer rather than hijacking that thread.
> 
> Thanks for reading!
> David


thank you for posting...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

patlaw said:


> That's a great result. Does the positive lead go to the plate or to the rusted equipment?


Positive to the plate, negative to the equipment. I don't remember if I tried it the other way or read somewhere to do it this way but it worked so if I have to do it again sometime I'll probably do it the same way.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Positive to the plate, negative to the equipment. I don't remember if I tried it the other way or read somewhere to do it this way but it worked so if I have to do it again sometime I'll probably do it the same way.


The Negative should always be attached to the piece being de-rusted, so that the metal transfer, (replacement), is to the rusted item. If you do it the other way, Positive to the rusted piece, the metal transfer will be to the sacrificial plate/rod.

I use a five gallon bucket to de-rust hand plane bodies when I refurbish them. 

This is a really innovative way to de-rust large flat surfaces...THANKS!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The results are stunning. Thanks for sharing that. I'd still like to kick the person in the butt hole who let it get that rusted to start with. It should be a crime to let that happen to a fine piece of machinery like that.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

An amazing result! Thanks for the How-To.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I amazed at the outcome . I thought that jointer was pretty much scrap metal in the beginning


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

Amazing results.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Yup, like Rick, I thought that was junk and look at it now! Very nice, thanks for the info David.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Thank you so much for this, David. I have used the method of suspending small parts in a bucket, but this is far more practical and versatile. I have several things I want to try it on. Jim


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm commenting just to have a permanent link to this VERY informative article.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

David, that is really incredible. The weird thing was that I was just learning about electrolysis myself for cleaning cast iron pans and realized that I have a lot of rusted tools that could be done, but I had no idea that you could do it on such a large scale.

My last employer has a large 40 amp dc battery charger that they don't use anymore because they have switch to the newer type of batteries and I'm thinking about calling them up to see if I can buy it from them before they haul to the dump. It might be a little over kill because I watched a lot of videos with small car chargers being used.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

From large heavy paper weight to usable power tool. This makes it look like it was easier to de-rust it than to let it rust in the first place.

GREAT RESULTS!


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## jldmor (Mar 5, 2014)

That's an amazing transformation. I'm going to try that on an old hand saw I have. Thanks for posting it.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Thanks for the "how-to" David. Certainly a keeper for the future use file.


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

Better living through chemistry!


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Definitely one to be tagged for the library. Appreciate the post.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks, guys! It really is as easy as it looks. Funny thing is I've never done electrolysis where you dip parts in a bucket, which is good because I didn't have a large enough bucket into which I could dip the jointer... :no:

On the topic of a battery charger too large or overkill I would think the 4-5 minutes it takes for the towel to dry out is essential to the process. If your charger is so large that it dries the towel in 1-2 minutes my guess is that you may have to repeat the process a few times, but that is strictly a guess based on using my small 6 amp charger.


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## David Dickson (Oct 30, 2015)

*Really neat and very effective*

Wish I had known about this technique before spending a day (back in 2012) with wet-and-dry on the surface of the bandsaw table. Really neat and very effective. Thanks for sharing, David.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I was looking for more info and read that some automatic battery chargers need a jump start to get started. They used a 1.5 volt battery to simulate a battery load to turn on the charger. They put the battery across the wires for only a few seconds. 

I saw a drawing this morning of a car battery being used with an automatic battery charger connected to it, but for some reason I can’t find again. I might do that since I have a couple of extra car batteries and I just killed a charger trying to get my truck started after setting 2 months. 

I don't know that the car battery will work in this application because there is a chance of a short, but I may give it a try with a parts tank and add a fuse for safety.

I just found this drawing, but its not the one I saw earlier.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Like everyone else, I'm pretty darned impressed with your results.

Most of my stationery power tools are in a decidedly non climate controlled area. I'll be looking at them very carefully this morning to see how they are faring.

Many thanks indeed for posting this.


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> like everyone else, *i'm pretty darned impressed with your results*.
> 
> *many thanks indeed for posting this.*


+ (N) #

BTW do you have a pic of the sacrificial plate after used?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RÖENTGEEP said:


> + (N) #
> 
> BTW do you have a pic of the sacrificial plate after used?


I didn't but since I still have it I took a photo a minute ago. It is clearly 'sacrificial' and took on a lot of rust from the very first use. You just never know when you'll need to do this again so I keep the plate in the shop. The other side looks like the day I bought it.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

JohnnyB60 said:


> I was looking for more info and read that some automatic battery chargers need a jump start to get started. They used a 1.5 volt battery to simulate a battery load to turn on the charger. They put the battery across the wires for only a few seconds.
> 
> I saw a drawing this morning of a car battery being used with an automatic battery charger connected to it, but for some reason I can’t find again. I might do that since I have a couple of extra car batteries and I just killed a charger trying to get my truck started after setting 2 months.
> 
> ...


That's interesting about the automatic chargers, I didn't know that. My little 6 amp charger is about 30 years old and suffices for electrolysis and occasionally charging my lawn mower battery.


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I didn't but since I still have it I took a photo a minute ago. It is clearly 'sacrificial' and took on a lot of rust from the very first use. You just never know when you'll need to do this again so I keep the plate in the shop. The other side looks like the day I bought it.
> 
> View attachment 201329


Thank you sir !. :smile: Thats what I want so see, and I could imagine that.
One more question, do you use the same sacrificial plate, moving in, part by part over the table of the jointer every 3-4 minutes? Cleaning it or what?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RÖENTGEEP said:


> Thank you sir !. :smile: Thats what I want so see, and I could imagine that.
> One more question, do you use the same sacrificial plate, moving in, part by part over the table of the jointer every 3-4 minutes? Cleaning it or what?


Yes, same plate. I did one section that the plate covered, wiped the rust off, wet the towel again and then moved on to the next section. So yes, it only takes 3-4 minutes for the towel to dry but then I probably spent another 4-5 minutes cleaning the section I just did to see if I need to do it again. I'd say the whole bed took about 45 minutes.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RÖENTGEEP said:


> + (N) #
> 
> BTW do you have a pic of the sacrificial plate after used?


I've used this method to refurb some old hand planes a few times.

I've used a short piece of rebar in a 5 gallon pail - works well


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

This is amazing. I will have to see if I can do this.
Thanks
Allen


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@difalkner...

this show and tell of yours is so good I added it to the library...
hope ya don't mind..


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @difalkner...
> 
> this show and tell of yours is so good I added it to the library...
> hope ya don't mind..


On the contrary, I am honored, Stick!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> On the contrary, I am honored, Stick!


okay...
here's what it looks like...
want to add anything???

._*Moderator's note:*the PDF in this post has been updated and the updated version can be found attached to post #40 in this thread._


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> okay...
> here's what it looks like...
> want to add anything???
> 
> .


Only that there is no 'u' in Falkner. :no: 

Otherwise looks great - thanks!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> Only that there is no 'u' in Falkner. :no:
> 
> Otherwise looks great - thanks!


oooops...
sorry...
fixed it...

must have been thinking of William Faulkner.....


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> oooops...
> sorry...
> fixed it...
> 
> must have been thinking of William Faulkner.....


Yeah, he messed it up for the rest of us who spell it correctly - :grin:

Thanks!!


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Yes, same plate. I did one section that the plate covered, wiped the rust off, wet the towel again and then moved on to the next section. So yes, it only takes 3-4 minutes for the towel to dry but then I probably spent another 4-5 minutes cleaning the section I just did to see if I need to do it again. I'd say the whole bed took about 45 minutes.


David, muchas gracias otra vez mi amigo. :wink:



Stick486 said:


> @difalkner...
> 
> this show and tell of yours is so good I added it to the library...
> hope ya don't mind..


Muy buen gesto, muy buena idea, you are the man! :grin:


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

@Stick486
I don't see were it tells which lead of the battery charger hooks to what. He said the below was how he hooked it up.Not sure if it would work the other way

Positive to the plate, negative to the equipment. I don't remember if I tried it the other way or read somewhere to do it this way but it worked so if I have to do it again sometime I'll probably do it the same way.

Can this be added to the PDF you were so kind as to add.
Thanks
Allen


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

firstmuller said:


> @Stick486
> I don't see were it tells which lead of the battery charger hooks to what. He said the below was how he hooked it up.Not sure if it would work the other way
> 
> Positive to the plate, negative to the equipment. I don't remember if I tried it the other way or read somewhere to do it this way but it worked so if I have to do it again sometime I'll probably do it the same way.
> ...


Negative lead to the article being de-rusted. The Positive attaches to the sacrificial anode (steel/iron plate, rod, re-bar, whatever).

I don't use a battery inline when I use my system. I attach the battery charger directly to the Copper bar (-) that I hang the item from, and the re-bar (+) I use as the anode. Set it at a low amp rate (10) and let it cook. If you use the trickle charge you can walk away and let it do its thing and come back hours latter.

If anyone is interested in my set-up I will take a photo and post it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

firstmuller said:


> @Stick486
> I don't see were it tells which lead of the battery charger hooks to what. He said the below was how he hooked it up.Not sure if it would work the other way
> 
> Positive to the plate, negative to the equipment. I don't remember if I tried it the other way or read somewhere to do it this way but it worked so if I have to do it again sometime I'll probably do it the same way.
> ...


Fixed it...
thanks for pointing that out...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Cherryville Chuck...

post # 32 has a PDF that now has been updated...
can you edit this PDF in it's place...

Thanks...
Stick... 

The updated PDF...

.


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

@Stick486
That looks very good.
Thanks Stick.
@schnewj
If you could take a picture of your setup would be nice. I have my Dads #5 Stanley hand plain and it is rusty and have used it a little but like to clean it up and sharpen it. 
Thanks
Allen


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

firstmuller said:


> @Stick486
> That looks very good.
> Thanks Stick.
> @schnewj
> ...


 @firstmuller

Allen,I will take some photos today. I will, also, provide you with a material list.

A five gallon bucket doesn't quite get the whole body of a #5. I do one side and then rotate it 180°. In addition, I will warn you, that, if left too long the bath will take off the Japanning, also.

Not so much that it dissolves it, but the rust that is underneath it. When the rust goes so does the Japanning.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

do it right...
take the Japanning off..
redo the Japanning or use High Temp engine paint...

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/15622?msg=welcome_stranger
https://www.tradebit.com/filedetail.php/141318370-a-guide-to-japanning

High Temp..
tape of where you don't want the paint...
quick even pass lengthwise to apply a light dusting of paint...
rotate the sole/part 180° and apply another dusting...
after each application dries or reaches a light tack repeat...
little often is bestest...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> do it right...
> take the Japanning off..
> redo the Japanning or use High Temp engine paint...
> 
> ...


+1 on the HTEP. If you are restoring to use...who cares about the Japanning! It is only there to be a rust preventative. The paint does the same thing. 

If your restoring the plane for posterity then be a purist and beat yourself to death re-Japanning. The minute you do, the value is destroyed, anyway, and it's a mess to do!

Painting the plane(s) doesn't affect how well the plane works it just keeps it looking nice after all of the hard work you just did to make the plane a usable tool.

In addition to the HTEP I have had good luck, (visually and practically) with Rustoleum (Hard Hat) Gloss Black paint. Not exactly a color match to the Japanning, but when done as Stick described, forms a very hard, durable finish when cured.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I rescued a couple of Tonka toys* from a garage sale last week. They're maybe 18"+/- long. There's still lots of the original paint but also a lot of surface rust.
Are they candidates for the electrolysis treatment, or should I just bite the bullet and use a die grinder and wire wheels to clean them up? That route will take hours... 
I definitely want to kill the rust before refinishing them.


* a truck mounted crane and a dump truck.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> A five gallon bucket doesn't quite get the whole body of a #5. I do one side and then rotate it 180°. In addition, I will warn you, that, if left too long the bath will take off the Japanning, also.


move to head of the class...
get a planter box liner at any place selling flowers or plant nursery..
all kinds of sizes, shapes and durability.. 

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> +1 on the HTEP.


HTEP is about impervious to just about anything...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> move to head of the class...
> get a planter box liner at any place selling flowers or plant nursery..
> all kinds of sizes, shapes and durability..
> 
> .


I you use a planter: Make sure it is deep enough (the body has to be suspended off of the bottom, and that it is heavy enough to hold everything. I looked and didn't find anything suitable at the time. 

I wasn't going to pay what they wanted for one of the larger/heavier planters when I had a free five gallon bucket handy.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> I you use a planter: Make sure it is deep enough (the body has to be suspended off of the bottom, and that it is heavy enough to hold everything. I looked and didn't find anything suitable at the time.
> 
> I wasn't going to pay what they wanted for one of the larger/heavier planters when I had a free five gallon bucket handy.


it's a liner and not a planter...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> it's a liner and not a planter...


I've never seen "liners" being sold in the southeast, only stand alone planters. Liners must be a Colorado thing that you drop into wooden planter boxes.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> I've never seen "liners" being sold in the southeast, only stand alone planters. Liners must be a Colorado thing that you drop into wooden planter boxes.


correct...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

difalkner said:


> When I brought it home it looked like this (soaked with WD-40 in this photo) -
> 
> David


more proof that WD isn't as advertised or thought of....


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

As promised, I took some photos of my set-up. It is pretty simple and self-explanatory. If you have any questions about the arrangement that I don't explain, just ask.

Just a couple of points...
* the rebar is cheap and the set-up makes it easy to replace.
* The mushroom caps are to isolate the tips of the rebar from touching the item being de-rusted. It is IMPORTANT, that the two poles never touch. 
* Use any conductive wire, clips, or whatever to suspend the item to the negative rod. (I used a ground rod...use whatever you have that is conductive).


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> more proof that WD isn't as advertised or thought of....


I just pointed that out because it is wet in the photo and wanted to mention what I put on it. It was more peace of mind that I had put _something_ on it once I got it home.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> As promised, I took some photos of my set-up. It is pretty simple and self-explanatory. If you have any questions about the arrangement that I don't explain, just ask.


that is well thought out and executed...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> As promised, I took some photos of my set-up. It is pretty simple and self-explanatory. If you have any questions about the arrangement that I don't explain, just ask.


this has been added to the library...
hope you don't' mind...

the latest updated PDF attached......

.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> this has been added to the library...
> hope you don't' mind...
> 
> the latest updated PDF attached......
> ...


You need to ask!:surprise:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> You need to ask!:surprise:


I didn't...
easier to get forgiven that it is to get permission...


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

@schnewj
Thanks for the pictures Bill and all the info. very helpful. 

@Stick486
As usual you are a wealth of info Stick. Much reading about something i had never heard about before.

I just plan on get the #5 so I can use it.
Again, thanks for all the info.
Allen


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## Guitfiddle (Dec 14, 2014)

schnewj said:


> As promised, I took some photos of my set-up. It is pretty simple and self-explanatory. If you have any questions about the arrangement that I don't explain, just ask.
> 
> Just a couple of points...
> * the rebar is cheap and the set-up makes it easy to replace.
> ...


Hi, and thanks for the informative post. My only question, having never done this before, is how long does it need to be on, at say 10 amps, and does the time change based on the size of the item being suspended in the bucket? Is there a way to tell visually without turning it off and pulling it up? Thanks!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Valid question...the answer...it depends. The rustier it is the longer it will take, more power may shorten the time-frame, or not make a difference...I've never bothered to check. The sacrificial anode may affect the transfer, also.

A super rusty #5 plane body won't completely submerge in a 5 gallon bucket. I have to do half and then flip it around. I use 2 pieces of rebar, one on each side. One piece may take twice as long as the two...I really can't say. Typically, at 10 amps I'm usually clean at anywhere from 1/2-1 hour total time. 

You will just have to check it as you go to get an idea with your set-up and what you are de-rusting. You will know it is working when the water foams up and the scum and the brown rust covers the surface. Patience is the name of the game. You'll just have to experiment.


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