# Pat Warner CDs, ebooks, etc.



## dsgoen (Feb 25, 2013)

Although a member of this forum for many years, I have only recently started woodworking again. Medical problems almost did me in.

I was dismayed to discover that Pat Warner had passed away during my absence. I had long planned on purchasing his CDs and ebooks. What I have seen of his work I find fascinating, inspirational, and any other number of adjectives. I have learned much from just studying pictures of his jigs, but I want more! But his website first stated that no orders would be accepted, and then the website just disappeared off the Internet!

I have his physical books. I have copied everything I can from the Wayback Machine archives of his website. I also have all of the Fine Woodworking articles he wrote.

Does anyone else here have anything by him that I could buy/borrow/etc? 

I don't understand why his site just disappeared when even the pictures are vastly informational on techniques that I have not seen described elsewhere. I understand that the physical items he made can no longer be available, but why do his written words have to disappear? 

Thank you,
David


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## George B. (Oct 30, 2010)

Likely his family wishes plus they did not want to maintain his website.


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## biocmp (Jul 2, 2014)

Anyone purchase Pat Warner's ebooks/PDFs? 

I purchased two and I have all of his physical books but I'd love to have purchased the remainder of his collection had I known he was in poor health.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Seems to me I saw some stuff available on Amazon.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I don't know about the ebooks and whatever, but if you want books, then used bookstores are often a good bet - often for very reasonable prices. (For years I bought boats on boat building, and often paid from $3-$7 a book, seldom more then $10, and now some of them are supposedly worth as much as $350, last time I checked.) If you just want to read some of his books, then check your local library. If they don't have what you want, then for a small fee they can borrow from another library.


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## biocmp (Jul 2, 2014)

Sorry, I should've clarified. I own all of Pat's books that were published but he self-published a large number of plans/tutorials/how-tos on jig-making, drilling, templating and loads on general routing. I was wondering if anyone had purchased the self-published materials?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

biocmp said:


> Sorry, I should've clarified. I own all of Pat's books that were published but he self-published a large number of plans/tutorials/how-tos on jig-making, drilling, templating and loads on general routing. I was wondering if anyone had purchased the self-published materials?


Oops, caught that. Meant to write "if anyone wants books".


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## dicktill (Mar 27, 2013)

dsgoen said:


> Although a member of this forum for many years, I have only recently started woodworking again. Medical problems almost did me in.
> 
> I was dismayed to discover that Pat Warner had passed away during my absence. I had long planned on purchasing his CDs and ebooks. What I have seen of his work I find fascinating, inspirational, and any other number of adjectives. I have learned much from just studying pictures of his jigs, but I want more! But his website first stated that no orders would be accepted, and then the website just disappeared off the Internet!
> 
> ...





biocmp said:


> Anyone purchase Pat Warner's ebooks/PDFs?
> 
> I purchased two and I have all of his physical books but I'd love to have purchased the remainder of his collection had I known he was in poor health.


Hi all,

I was in a similar position in May 2017 when I learned of his illness. At the time, he was unable to make anything, but was still able to ship out some things he still had. So I bought a bunch of stuff plus all of his pdf's. Here's the moral (& legal?) dilemma: A few of his pdf's are marked copyright, but most are not. Were he alive, or if his family was still selling these, it would be "bad form" for me to share or sell even the non-copyrighted ones. But he passed away July 28th, and his family has taken down his website and isn't selling his articles, nor making them available to the public. What to do ... ?

Regards, Dick


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Dead or not I’m sure it’s still illegal. You could offer his widow a royalty if you can get an email to her.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Find out who owns the copyrights, then write them and ask for permission to share them on this site at no charge. Also ask if they are going to sell these items in the future, and if yes, then you'd like their permission to share them with some individuals on this site. Mention that he posted often at Router Forums and that he is missed, and that a few people really want some of the materials you purchased some time ago. Make it clear you won't share the material without their permission, and that you would not charge anything for them. Also mention that many items do not carry a copyright and might be public domain. If you get permission from the copyright holder, you can share the material just as they allow. I often give limited permission for public sharing of select copywritten material.


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## biocmp (Jul 2, 2014)

Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a handout. I can send an email to the webmaster address that was on his front page, offering money. I'm happy to make a charitable donation to ALS in lieu of compensation to the family so that his work is still going toward something I believe he'd care about.

I'm just kicking myself for not purchasing all of his materials and more importantly, for not finding a way to work with him in a 1-1 setting. I don't know if there has been another person with such a documented love/understanding of the router.

RIP Pat


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## FlyingSawdust (Dec 23, 2017)

I discovered Pat Warner after he passed away. In fact, I was about to sign up for a hands-on router tutorial in his shop when I found that would now be impossible. i also wanted to buy his router based for my routers.

I have some of his books, and have access to others at my local public library, but would greatly appreciate any self-published, or otherwise materials that he produced. Could you post a list of what you have available that you obtained from his website before it was taken down? In fact, if it was available for downloading from his website without a fee, wouldn't it be OK to share it?

Finally, is there another router/routing genius out there that we should be aware of?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jose there are two other good ones and that is Bill Hylton and Patrick Spielman who is also deceased unfortunately. If you find material from Pat that didn't say copyrighted then it should be public domain I think.


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## FlyingSawdust (Dec 23, 2017)

dsgoen said:


> Although a member of this forum for many years, I have only recently started woodworking again. Medical problems almost did me in.
> 
> I was dismayed to discover that Pat Warner had passed away during my absence. I had long planned on purchasing his CDs and ebooks. What I have seen of his work I find fascinating, inspirational, and any other number of adjectives. I have learned much from just studying pictures of his jigs, but I want more! But his website first stated that no orders would be accepted, and then the website just disappeared off the Internet!
> 
> ...


David,

Could you list what you copied from Pat Warner's website, and since it was available for download, could you make it available to the readers of this thread? They are gems that should not be lost, and hopefully shared with others that greatly admired Pat. I've seen photos attached so I assume that files could be attached as well.


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## dsgoen (Feb 25, 2013)

Yes. I'll do it tomorrow.


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## sgcz75b (Jan 8, 2019)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Jose there are two other good ones and that is Bill Hylton and Patrick Spielman who is also deceased unfortunately. If you find material from Pat that didn't say copyrighted then it should be public domain I think.


I would be careful about using any printed, video, film, photographs, or other "published" materials that do not specifically say "Copyright". Certainly, the materials that were once part of the work of someone who published. That person being dead doesn't matter (I believe it's 70 years after death before any 'public domain' can take place.)

"Copyright" is automatic at creation/publication and does not need to specifically say "copyright" to be protected by law.

Over my career in publishing, I made substantial money hiring an intellectual property rights lawyer to go after those who either chose to ignore or were ignorant of copyright law. It's usually such a clear case of user fault with an almost guaranteed loss for the illegal user that it was never necessary to go to court. The illegal user would contact a lawyer who would tell them to settle or risk serious monetary losses as well as paying my lawyer's fee.

The odds are good that you won't be discovered. But if you are discovered you can find yourself in a costly mess.

I would contact the heirs of the deceased as they are probably now the legal "owners" of that intellectual property, and get specific written permission before "publishing" in any manner.

My guess is the heirs will not co-operate without remuneration and/or don't wish to be bothered.

Public domain and intellectual property rights are a tricky subject and you do not want to be on the wrong end of an erroneous assumption.


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## dsgoen (Feb 25, 2013)

Sorry for the delay; I was sick for many days and then forgot to do this. There's some repetition between the two files, because, there just is.


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## Lime113 (Jan 6, 2021)

biocmp said:


> Sorry, I should've clarified. I own all of Pat's books that were published but he self-published a large number of plans/tutorials/how-tos on jig-making, drilling, templating and loads on general routing. I was wondering if anyone had purchased the self-published materials?





dicktill said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I was in a similar position in May 2017 when I learned of his illness. At the time, he was unable to make anything, but was still able to ship out some things he still had. So I bought a bunch of stuff plus all of his pdf's. Here's the moral (& legal?) dilemma: A few of his pdf's are marked copyright, but most are not. Were he alive, or if his family was still selling these, it would be "bad form" for me to share or sell even the non-copyrighted ones. But he passed away July 28th, and his family has taken down his website and isn't selling his articles, nor making them available to the public. What to do ... ?
> 
> Regards, Dick





biocmp said:


> Just to be clear, I'm not looking for a handout. I can send an email to the webmaster address that was on his front page, offering money. I'm happy to make a charitable donation to ALS in lieu of compensation to the family so that his work is still going toward something I believe he'd care about.
> 
> I'm just kicking myself for not purchasing all of his materials and more importantly, for not finding a way to work with him in a 1-1 setting. I don't know if there has been another person with such a documented love/understanding of the router.
> 
> RIP Pat



Any progress on the matter of contacting Pat's family/owners of material?
I would love to find the more detailed plans/instructions.

Like


Mortiser Plans


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## FlyingSawdust (Dec 23, 2017)

Just found this resource about Pat Warner -- Wayback Machine. Click on the dates of the files to view their contents, then copy the images and save. There are 633 entries! Wayback Machine


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## FlyingSawdust (Dec 23, 2017)

Try this URL as well -- https://web.archive.org/web/*/patwarner.com/*


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## Lime113 (Jan 6, 2021)

FlyingSawdust said:


> Try this URL as well -- Wayback Machine



That was a good site index I had not seen before. Thank you


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