# Dado Stack Question



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Is it safe to set up a stack to cut the *tongue* in one pass, using a spacer between the outer cutters? I'm thinking a 1/4''tongue, using what as a spacer (plus the shims as necessary for a proper fit?
Washers? 

We're not talking about removing a lot of material from a 3/4"thick board. Maybe 1/4" x1/4" on either side of the tongue.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The old Sears molding heads which I think were actually Delta Rockwell heads came with a very thick spacer that you had to put on in order to move the head away from the arbor enough that the 1" wide molding cutters wouldn't strike the frame. It is about the same diameter as as the blade washer. I don't see why you couldn't and I've thought a few times about trying to set up a shaft with circular saw blades and spacers that could cut a finger joint in one pass. Some of the old sawmill gang saws used the same idea to make 2" lumber. They maybe still do. I don't know if there is better technology for that yet or not. They used the head rig to make a cant and shoved the cant through the gang saw. That may be how they got the nickname spaghetti mills.

The only problem I see with using regular washers is that the hole for a 5/8" bolt is pretty sloppy so the washer would sit off center on an arbor and would be a little out of balance. Enough to matter? i don't know. If you had that spacer from a molding head it would be close to the right size. Sears did have tongue and groove cutters for that head. I have one and Corob cutter still makes them and cutter sets and they interchange with mine. $17 a set last I looked.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hmmmm....more tools. 
Trouble is I want to cut all this WR Cedar soffit material tomorrow. OK; yup, procrastination is an option. LOL!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Dan, if you need to do it right away, set up your stack to cut 1/4", run the board through with the stack against a sacrificial fence then turn it 180 and run it through again. Assuming the board is actually 3/4" you'll be left with a 1/4" tongue.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nick; not _one_ board...80 boards. hence my question about doing it in one pass. (80 x 8'=640 lin.' or 1,280 lin.' if I do two passes)


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Nick; not _one_ board...80 boards. hence my question about doing it in one pass. (80 x 8'=640 lin.' or 1,280 lin.' if I do two passes)



"I see", said the blind man to his deaf dog...

Now if we could come up with a way to cut it down to 320' lin, would that be "half-pass"...? >


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

If you have the box cutter set, it would be easy. Another thought would be to use smaller circular saw blades as spacers. You are only cutting 3/8" height. Even 5//8 flat washers or fender washers should work.
Or a straight bit on the router table like Nick suggested, 2 passes. Or 4 passes on a table saw 2 flat , 2 vertical.

If you do it with one pass, make sure you always have the face side to the fence,so they are consistent when you lay them up.
You could even make spacers out of tempered masonite, or other hardened material.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ship lap?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I like the Masonite idea. So far no one has suggested that it's a risky technique, so I'll give it a 'whirl' so to speak. 4" discs with a hole saw should give me a stable separation(?)...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

If you can hold it vertical with tall featherboards I can't imagine it would be risky with a 1/4" cut...I would definitely use a LONG sacrificial fence to get the most out of the inside cut...and to minimize any wobble and then have to recut any...

I like Herb's idea of making your spacer...

Go for it...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I like the Masonite idea. So far no one has suggested that it's a risky technique, so I'll give it a 'whirl' so to speak. 4" discs with a hole saw should give me a stable separation(?)...


What diam. Dado Stack you have? 6" or 8"? Carbide, or HSS?
The outside carbide tips are usually offset on out side cutters, so they can be reversed for different widths.
Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Is it safe to set up a stack to cut the *tongue* in one pass, using a spacer between the outer cutters? I'm thinking a 1/4''tongue, using what as a spacer (plus the shims as necessary for a proper fit?
> Washers?
> 
> We're not talking about removing a lot of material from a 3/4"thick board. Maybe 1/4" x1/4" on either side of the tongue.


all these years of doing just that and now sumbuddy asks about safety....
go figure...
don't forget to bring your featherboards...

you could double face cut instead of single edge cut...

why waste the material/width???...
spline...
doubled saw blades single pass on the edge...
router slot cutter... (free hand or RT)...
80x¼ = 20 face inches of width wasted...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> all these years of doing just that and now sumbuddy asks about safety....
> go figure...
> don't forget to bring your featherboards...
> 
> ...


Yeah that is a good idea too. Another reason foe doing the splines, when they make the tongue side the bottom edge of the tongue edge is on a slight angle so that when it is laid it tightens upon the top,and has a hairline gap on the bottom edge.
Be sure to make the toungue a tad shorter that the groove so you don't have to fight it into tightenin the crack. But you know that already, just thought I would mention it. Here is a dado video on the TS.
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/tongue-and-groove-joinery-3536627

Are you end matching too?
Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of the other options on a TS is to use a shim on the fence when you do that. You make the initial cut and then add a shim that equals the blade thickness plus the tongue thickness on the second pass.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Why aerent you doing this on a router table?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Yeah that is a good idea too. Another reason for doing the splines, when they make the tongue side the *bottom edge of the tongue edge is on a slight angle* so that when it is laid it tightens upon the top,and has a hairline gap on the bottom edge.
> Be sure to *make the tongue a tad shorter that the groove so you don't have to fight it* into tightening the crack. But you know that already, just thought I would mention it. Here is a dado video on the TS.
> 
> Are you end matching too?
> Herb


TS 1° relief cut after slot cutting.... if you have to have one....
use a plywood strip narrower than the total depth of the matching/facing slots...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lots to think about...instead of actually, you know, sleeping. 

Bob; my T&G set is 1/2" shank and i still haven't built a RT. I do have that small RT from LV, but it's for my 1/4" trim router. Too small a table in any case. And to be honest, the TS is faster, especially if i do the spline thing. single pass on both edges plus ripping a bunch of 8' splines (160 lengths x 1"...including the kerf= 3 1/2 sheets of plywood= waaaay too much expense).

Herb; "Are you end matching too?"
No chance of that happening. 
It's just a soffit on my tool shed; it'll be lucky if it gets stained. I walked in a couple of weeks ago and a squirrel was setting up housekeeping. I asked it nicely to leave and it said, "Not happening, Buddy."
Soffit= eviction notice.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick said I'm golden...
"all these years of doing just that and now sumbuddy asks about safety....
go figure...
don't forget to bring your featherboards...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> my T&G set is 1/2" shank and i still haven't built a RT.
> And to be honest, the TS is faster, especially if i do the spline thing. single pass on both edges plus ripping a bunch of 8' splines (160 lengths x 1"...including the kerf= 3 1/2 sheets of plywood= waaaay too much expense).


free hand the T&G or splines...
you have any idea how many freehand T&G'/splines I did on this project???
no table and it would have been impractical anyways...
think it out and have at it...

and no..
the TS isn't faster... VOE...

splines...
change the bearing dia...
change the depth of cut... 5/16'' will work fine... (7.5~8MM)
use 3~4MM BB or Luann for the splines..
cross cut the ply to the top veneer - highly recommended... VOE
under width the spline by 1/16~3/32'' (1.5~2.4MM) because that WRC is gonna wanna move and if the MC is way off it's gonna want to move next door...
- Radial: 2.4%, Tangential: 5.0%, Volumetric: 6.8%, T/R Ratio: 2.1...
(picture included for those that need to understand wood movement)...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Lots to think about...
> 
> It's just a soffit on my tool shed; it'll be lucky if it gets stained.


this is something novel...

oil it w/ non film-forming finish on all 6 sides w/ your garden sprayer before you put it up...
you gonna face or blind nail it???
if you are gonna face nail it, use thinner material and ship lap...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Lots to think about...instead of actually, you know, sleeping.
> 
> Bob; my T&G set is 1/2" shank and i still haven't built a RT. I do have that small RT from LV, but it's for my 1/4" trim router. Too small a table in any case. And to be honest, the TS is faster, especially if i do the spline thing. single pass on both edges plus ripping a bunch of 8' splines (160 lengths x 1"...including the kerf= 3 1/2 sheets of plywood= waaaay too much expense).
> 
> ...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

He/she _has_ been given notice! 
Blind nailing through the tongue (nails canted back toward the board). Stick mentioned losing face width at 1/4" per board. Good point but the total loss is only 1/2 of what Stick suggested as the boards are end to end for 16'. ie for 10 boards width that's actually 16 boards, and a loss of 2 1/2" not 5".

The thing that's tipping me towards cutting tongues, in a single pass, is being able to blind nail through them instead of having to deal with splines over-head. Doing it on a floor is a whole lot simpler.
I did a recalculation of my WR Cedar, that I've already cut and planed to size, and I'm short material...*&*^&^%#!!!
Back to the mill today.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb; sorry, I forgot your soffit vent question. Yes; the first row at the bottom with the groove facing uphill, then vinyl vent strips with the wings inserted into the groove, then the next row of Cedar with the groove downhill picking up the other wing.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> He/she _has_ been given notice!
> Blind nailing through the tongue (nails canted back toward the board). Stick mentioned losing face width at 1/4" per board. Good point but the total loss is only 1/2 of what Stick suggested as the boards are end to end for 16'. ie for 10 boards width that's actually 16 boards, and a loss of 2 1/2" not 5".
> 
> The thing that's tipping me towards cutting tongues, in a single pass, is being able to blind nail through them instead of having to deal with splines over-head. Doing it on a floor is a whole lot simpler.
> ...


freehand the T&G's..
clamp the board down..
mill...
next...
spline the butts wherever they may break...
use your grooving bit only for this..
no tongues...
cut splines from whatever you have on hand...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I did a recalculation of my WR Cedar, that I've already cut and planed to size, and I'm short material...*&*^&^%#!!!
Back to the mill today."
-Me

Picked up 4 --8'-2x4 RS WR Cedar...clear straight grain.....$100Cdn. Ouch.
Beautiful stuff.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "I did a recalculation of my WR Cedar, that I've already cut and planed to size, and I'm short material...*&*^&^%#!!!
> Back to the mill today."
> -Me
> 
> ...


I felt that all the way over here...
and you live in WRC country...
gonna resaw???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes. Five slices per 2x4 ie 5/8" x 1 3/4" after planing the top and bottom.
Re the WRC logs; he buys primo logs from Haida Gwaii*, not local stuff.

* Formerly the Queen Charlotte islands, off BC's Coast.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "I did a recalculation of my WR Cedar, that I've already cut and planed to size, and I'm short material...*&*^&^%#!!!
> Back to the mill today."
> -Me
> 
> ...



Yeow...! ...that's gonna leave a mark...:surprise:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yup. That's twenty coffee breaks, day old muffins included. :0


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=corob+cutter&hvadid=78615215673488&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvqmt=p&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_3e9llurxw8_pI would use Corob molding setup with table saw and feather boards referencing from the face side of the boards for all cuts.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Gary; thanks! I actually _have_ a moulding head.* But not the knives I'd need.
https://www.amazon.com/Corob-Moldin...orob+cutter&qid=1599322445&sr=8-4&tag=mh0b-20
Great, now I can postpone this project til the day after never!! LOL!


* ...and I know exactly where it is! (*shock*)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Great, now I can postpone this project til the day after never!! LOL!
> 
> ...and I know exactly where it is! (*shock*)


spoken like a true retiree...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I could mail you mine and you would only have to postpone it for about a week (hopefully). If you have that head then don't you have that big spacer washer I mentioned?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

???...I haven't taken it out of its box since Eisenhower was Pres. No idea what's in there; I'll check, 'cause "I know exactly where it is". 
Right now, I have an appointment with the cute baristas at 'The Bakery' coffee shop.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Great, now I can postpone this project til the day after never!! LOL!



An inspiration for all of us newly retired grasshoppers...Thank you, oh Master...! :lazy2:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Given all the input, I'd go shiplap. T&G or splines is too much for soffits, especially for a retiree. Beside that, any warp in the wood will bugger up the alignment of the tongue or splines. If you want to fancy it up, roundover the edges on the face side. Shiplap is easy with a dado stack buried in the fence.

If you don't allow for air circulation you may have other problems when things turn wet. You can always use a wide spade bit to drill holes and tack a little aluminum screen material over each hole, out of sight, to keep your friendly rodent out.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

gmercer_48083 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/s?k=corob+cutter&hvadid=78615215673488&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvqmt=p&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_3e9llurxw8_pI would use Corob molding setup with table saw and feather boards referencing from the face side of the boards for all cuts.


I wonder if they make those in solid carbide?

HSS doesn't hack it in my book. My dad had a set of those in 1949, they don't last long before they start burning.
You need a ZC insert for them too.
HErb


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

To many replies to read through so...

If you need tomake a spacer, why not make one out of wood the correct thickness, then use a hole cutter to cut it out. Then line it up on the drill press and drill out the center to the size of your arbor.

If you had a buddy with a 3dprinter, he could make one for you, but it might melt from the heat generated by the saw/cutting operation.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; yup that's my plan. Gary mentioned the shaper head late on in the conversation; it's the perfect solution. i have one, but not the knives i need for it, so back to plan A...my original question " is it safe"? Stick and Charles told me to just do it! 

(i heard you guys had a bet going that I couldn't find it...)


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Yup...add me to the "just do it" pile...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@DaninVan...
I used some over sized fender washers and bored them out to 5/8''...

I still say do this freehand w/ your T&G set...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Mike; yup that's my plan. Gary mentioned the shaper head late on in the conversation; it's the perfect solution. i have one, but not the knives i need for it, so back to plan A...my original question " is it safe"? Stick and Charles told me to just do it!
> 
> (i heard you guys had a bet going that I couldn't find it...)


I'm shocked. I saw a picture of your shop once and I was betting that you don't even know what the floor looks like anymore.>


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I'm shocked. I saw a picture of your shop once and I was betting that you don't even know what the floor looks like anymore.>


I saw it too...
how he even finds the light switch is a miracle...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Maybe there's a strategy...probably where he hides his "stash"...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Let There Be Light*



Stick486 said:


> I saw it too...
> how he even finds the light switch is a miracle...


I didn't need to turn them on; lots of daylight with the garage door open.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I'm shocked. I saw a picture of your shop once and I was betting that you don't even know what the floor looks like anymore.>


There's a floor??? *shock*


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I didn't need to turn them on; lots of daylight with the garage door open.


as impossible as it looked to find or even get to you must open it from the outside.. eh...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Maybe there's a strategy...probably where he hides his "stash"...


oh yes...
his stash...
hidden in plain sight...

it'll still take heavy equipment to get to...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> There's a floor??? *shock*


it's that lowest horizontal surface at the bottom....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I didn't need to turn them on; lots of daylight with the garage door open.


rain or winter??? eh...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Winter?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charles; you're a genius! How did you even remember it was in there???

https://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/143903-dado-stack-question-2.html#post2143091

I do have it... it's more of a bushing than a washer. It's 1.5" in dia. and .310" thick, about 5/16".
I stacked my two outer dado blades horizontally with that bushing in between. My caliper suggests about .29+/-" as the space equaling the tongue after cutting. That'll probably shrink a bit once I mount them on the arbor and tighten them down.
I may have to mount a couple of chippers to get a wide enough cut ie all the waste removed across the thickness of the boards.
(*does the Happy Dance*)


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I use mine occasionally. Maybe more like rarely but once in a great while it winds up being the best tool for the job.


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