# Need router for table newbie



## Mick33 (Jan 13, 2016)

I had a few questions about putting together a router table. Initially wanted to go as cheap as possible and take my time putting together something more expensive. 

I watched Steve Ramsey's router table on you tube. Sounded about what I wanted and inexpensive. I know I want a router lift and want to avoid wasting time under the table to change bits, etc. Ramsey bought a Kreg table plate. By the time you add up expenses and time the homemade lift he shows on you tube did not make sense to me versus buying a midrange lift. I really liked the Jessem Mast R Lift. I saw many recommendations for the same lift made by Jessem with the magnetic Kreg plate insert sold by Kreg. I hope someone will give me some advice between these two. 

I wanted to use several vintage Black and Decker 2720's and 3315's which I picked up which I believe are approximately 30 years old. Parts have been hard to come by and expensive. I believe these are compatable with the Dewalt 610 perhaps someone can advise me on this. They have a 3.5" diameter (body). I spent hours looking for compatible parts, found an old original B&D fixed base on Ebay but most people want high dollar versus will take anything for these vintage parts. I gave up on the idea of using these bodies I have a mix of 5 of them. 

Read more on this forum. Watched Laney Shannessy's you tube video on router tables. Really liked his minus the tracking. I would like to build a formica laminated table with mdf/baltic plywood base, maybe 1/2" glued to 1/2"? It seems like most people go 3/4" to 3/4" but don't you give up 1/2" router cutting depth in going to the thicker base? 

My main question is which router. I was thinking of the Porter Cable 7519/7518. Initially thinking fixed speed (less to go wrong) until I read numerous times you need to lower the speed for larger router bits, leeaving the PC 7518. I read numerous reviews on the Porter Cable. One review sticks out in my mind. Someone who said they are running about 50 of the PC routers and have been doing so for a long time with good luck getting I believe 200 some hours out of them before needing to replace the bearings. He stated the latest routers he has been having problems with only getting approximately 50 hours and parts are unavailable or unable to fix the PC7518. 

That review was enough to keep me from ordering the router. I have read numerous reviews and know numerous peopole like the Bosch routers I believe there are two sizes one being the MRC23EVSK. Very nice, I would go with that for my hand held but for a table router it is smaller than the PC7518. 

What I have not seen is the gold standard for the router table in my case leaving the router in the table. Triton sounded good until I looked further and now am not sold on Triton. 

Is there a equivalent to the PC7518 that would use the Jessem Mast lift? 

Thanks


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

1.... I really liked the Jessem Mast R Lift. I saw many recommendations for the same lift made by Jessem with the magnetic Kreg plate insert sold by Kreg. I hope someone will give me some advice between these two.
2... I wanted to use several vintage Black and Decker 2720's and 3315's which I picked up which I believe are approximately 30 years old. Parts have been hard to come by and expensive. 
3... It seems like most people go 3/4" to 3/4" but don't you give up 1/2" router cutting depth in going to the thicker base?
4... I was thinking of the Porter Cable 7519/7518. Initially thinking fixed speed (less to go wrong) until I read numerous times you need to lower the speed for larger router bits, leeaving the PC 7518. I read numerous reviews on the Porter Cable...
5...Someone who said they are running about 50 of the PC routers and have been doing so for a long time with good luck getting I believe 200 some hours out of them before needing to replace the bearings. He stated the latest routers he has been having problems with only getting approximately 50 hours and parts are unavailable or unable to fix the PC7518.
6... That review was enough to keep me from ordering the router. I have read numerous reviews and know numerous people like the Bosch routers I believe there are two sizes one being the MRC23EVSK. Very nice, I would go with that for my hand held but for a table router it is smaller than the PC7518.
7... What I have not seen is the gold standard for the router table in my case leaving the router in the table. Triton sounded good until I looked further and now am not sold on Triton.
8... Is there a equivalent to the PC7518 that would use the Jessem Mast lift?

Welcome Mick...
glad you are here...

1.... why not get the lift w/ the plate as a single unit...
MAST-R-LIFT II
2... now that sounds like it could get expensive in the long run...
I'd never do it...
3... not with a plate... 
4... true on the fixed speed... install an external speed controller w/ it...
5... 50 PC7518's.. tough to swallow...
as for the run time.. the old (+5/6 years) are/were good routers...
after PC was bought out the routers, service, parts and CS turned to shid...
very expensive to maintain/replace... 
read this whole thread...
http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...above-below-table-height-adjustment-more.html
6... the Bosch 1617 is pretty much the leader of the pack...
put a hold on the MRC23 for table use...

The Mast-R-Lift II works with the following router motors:
Porter Cable 7518 (4.2" Motor Dia.)
Porter Cable 690/890 (3.5" Motor Dia.)
Bosch 1617/1618 (3.5" Motor Dia.)
DeWalt 610/618/616 (3.5" Motor Dia.)
Makita 1101 (3.218" Motor Dia.)
Hitachi M12VC & KM12VC (3.267" Motor Dia.)
Milwaukee 5625 (4.143" Motor Dia.)
Milwaukee 5615/5616/5619 (3.32" Motor Dia.)
Craftsman 17543/17540/28190 (3.5" Motor Dia.)
Rigid R29302 (3.625" Motor Dia.)

7... I have the JessEm and swear by it... (see the link)...
as for the table.. there's a whole forum on just that...
build your own...
BTW... brace yourself...
Table-mounted Routing - Router Forums
8... Milwaukee 5625 ...

It would behoove you to explore this entire site....
this place is ate up w/ routerholics...


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## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

*Router tables*

Hi Mick, I made my own router tables. I make a base on wheels with drawers and about 2' by 3' top. I am able to mount two routers per platform. I have several of those around the shop so that I don't have to change the bits often, but when I do I unplug the router, move the fence out of the way, open the door and lift the router out. It is just sitting on levelers and held in place by gravity. Here are some examples of my tables. Malcolm / Kentucky USA


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Mick.

I bought a table years ago, but a shop made table will work fine.

Router is another issue. First off, I compared a lot of routers and honestly don't much care for the Porter Cable. I started routing with a Bosch 1617 EVSPK kit, and bought a Rockler FX lift. The Bosch worked fine, but the lift was constantly slipping. A year or so ago, I got a Triton TRA001 for table use only. What a machine! powerful, easy to set the bit from the top and a crank to raise and lower it with precision. Too heavy to use freehand to me, so I use the Bosch for that. By the time I got the Triton, I'd spent almost as much for the lift as I did for the Triton. So I recommend you go for the Triton. To use it in the table, you have to remove a spring, very easy to do. I'm a fan of Sommerfeld tools and bits, and Mark Sommerfeld was a cabinet maker before getting into the tool business. I notice in his video series that he uses a Triton TRA001, and that's recommendation enough for me.

I also purchased his full video set, which are some of the most helpful and practical videos I have ever seen on router use. I highly recommend the videos and the Triton.

Of course, you can use the Bosch for the table without a separte lift. You can mount the fixed base under the table and use a Bosch key for raising and lowering the bit from above the table. The Bosch is superb for hand held work and as a plunge router. It would be an acceptable choice for the table as well. But for what you'll pay for a lift plus a Bosch, you will have spent more that having a Bosch kit AND a Triton. Do the math on the router plus lift, you'll be surprised. Many of us have two or more routers because it is nice not to have to move machines around between tasks. I now have 2 1617s, one was a motor only. Really nice to not have to change bits mid job. And I have the Bosch Colt with is a nifty special use router.

I think the Porter Cable company is just coasting these days on their former reputation. Go to Lowes and really look them over, compare the build quality. Bosch also has amazingly good customer service. 

Finding a Triton is a little more difficult since it is a heavier duty shop machine, you will probably have to special order it unless you can find one at a woodworking specialty store.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum Mick  
I think Stick as well as the others pretty much summed it up . Looking forward to seeing your build .
I bought two PC7518's not knowing about there issues . Maybe I will change out the bearings as I already own them , but I may replace them with Bosch 1617's just to keep Sticky happy . 

I cheated and bought a router table top from Incra , as this way I don't have to install the hole for the plate and miter slot , just have to build a base to my liking .


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

One small thing to add. The insert plate is the small plastic replacable opening where the bit comes through. Mine is held in place with 3 screws. I noticed that Sommerfeld has a table that has a bayonet lock for the insert place, so removal is quick and easy and there are no screws to lose. You might check his site to see what insert and plate he's using. It is really convenient, twist off, twist on.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I let my plates just sit in the opening. Gravity holds them down just fine. That allows me to pop the router and plate out anytime I want to make a major adjustment or change bits. That also does 2 other things. It allows me to use the router with plate as an off set plate and it eliminates (for me at least) the need for a lift since I make most of the adjustments with the router out of the table. 

By the way, welcome to the forum. If you love woodworking you`re among friends.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

kywoodchopper said:


> I made my own router tables.


well done Malcolm...
I like your table a lot...


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## Mick33 (Jan 13, 2016)

*Timley Responses*

Thanks for the fast responses and information from all. Much information and many decisions to make. Stick, thank you for reformating my request into a more comprehensible format and numbering it. 

1. Due to time constraints I am toying with the idea of premade table. I have read a blurb on this forum about the GrizzleyT10432 table fence everything to get me going minus the router for approximately $150.00 + 20.00 (shipping)= $170.00 I hate to pay that for basically alittle particle board and t-track but it is about the cheapest option for that package I have seen. 

2. On the other end of the spectrum I have viewed Jessem's complete packages with lifts (which I intended to purchase anyways/wash) in the neighborhood of $1,000.00 minus the router. They offer several versions and price ranges. Very tempting but really did not want to initially spend this much and don't need all the bells and whistles at this time. 

3. Think I would lean towards the grizzley table/setup between these two choices and perhaps put a Jessem lift in the Grizzly table. Kinda like putting a Porsche engine in a VW body with a specific purpose in mind. It does what I want it to do and it would do it well. It would allow me the ability to move the lift to another table as needed. 

4. The commentator who recommended the Grizzly table also referred to discussion of the Milwaukee Router 5625-20. I am sure it has been debated to death on this forum. Can any of you who know refer me to a few links on this Milwaukee router and perhaps the Triton router, Milwaukee vs Triton debate? This would be pernmanently left in my router table and I am still trying to figure out what to get. 

I have eliminated the Bosch 1617 due to all the remarks about the switch problems from dust when mounted in a router table. Sounds like this is a highly regarded router but not for a router table due to this issue. 

Thanks again for the responses 

Mick


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

As far as replacements for the PC 7518 in a lift the big Milwaukee 5625-20 or the Portamate router motor. I have owned all three and no problems to report from any of them. Keep in mind that the 7518 and the Portamate collet/nut assemblies will fit through a 1-1/2" hole and the Milwaukee will not.(photo 1)

3/4" BB plywood properly supported is all you need. When laminated on both sides with Formica you have a very rigid top that is easy to clean. The yellow tops are Router Workshop tables and the dark top is a phenolic impregnated BB plywood top. While not as durable as the Formica covered table it does perform very well.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

What information do you want on the Milwaukee and Triton? Both work well.

The Bosch 1617 switch thing is ancient history.


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## Mick33 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi Mike: 

Your review and comments are the ones I was referring to regarding a good cheap router table being the Grizzley T10432. I don't know if this is a pm to you or will post on the board. If on the board I mentioned the other end of the spectrum being one of the Jessem table setups. I forgot to mention in that post that I would be purchasing a Jessem router lift so a better comparsion between the two ends of the spectrum would be to add 350 for the lift the Grizzley package. 

Amazon only has two opposing reviews on the Portamate p254 and it list a production date I believe of approximately 1-2015. Sounds like it has not had time to be tried and tested for long term use. 

You stated: "Keep in mind that the 7518 and the Portamate collet/nut assemblies will fit through a 1-1/2" hole and the Milwaukee will not.(photo 1)". I sure this is a dumb question but I don't have enough operating experience to know what you are referring to. It sounds to me based on your statement "special provisions" need to be made for a Milwaukee router since it does not fit the standardized 1 1/2" opening? Is this a problem, pain in the butt, more added expense?

Thank you, 

Mick


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## Mick33 (Jan 13, 2016)

Hi Mike: 

Ancient history meaning it has been fixed and is no longer a concern if mounting the Bosch router in a table or meaning do not mount a Bosch 1618 in a table due to the switch issue? 

Regarding information I was looking for is any links to past discussions regarding the Milwaukee vs. triton routers specifically for mounting in a table. A link to any past discussions regarding the Portamate p254 you mentioned would be appreciated if there are any. 

Thank you


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The removable center rings in most router lifts have one in the set with a 1-1/2" hole. With the Milwaukee you would need to enlarge this hole if you needed full height extension for a cutting operation. The rings are removable and most brands offer a ring that is not pre drilled that can be customized to what ever you need. Just something to be aware of.

The Portamate is a newcomer with no history. I have tried it in the Excalibur Deluxe cast iron table/lift with no issues. Roland Johnson of FWW magazine is reviewing the Portamate.

The Bosch switch issue was many years ago and Bosch replaced any defective switches at no cost. I own a bunch of Bosch routers and have never had a switch issue. My go to table mounted router is the 1617.


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