# Backyard shed - your thoughts



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Might as well see what you think, as this project is quite a while down the road...probably.

We have a shed in the backyard, exterior looks like ply. Here's what I think/know of it: (opinion is *)

Good:
-doesn't leak
-it hasn't fallen down yet
-umm, it doesn't leak - looks to be a good roof
-I have one
-has lights and outlet

Bad:
-side of the shed (rear of yard) is rotting. Old trunks/firewood have been stored next to it.
-water damage to said side and portion of floor/wall
-smells like mold*
-stuff inside is growing mold spots on fabric
-my detailing supplies froze. When I shut the window, I knew why it was left open - the smell
-no ventilation
-no way to keep things proper temp
-tools may start to rust*
-built on an incline - it's still very sturdy, but they didn't support it properly. One corner has blocks that are leaning. Blocks are not solid and not properly seated.
-may be too close to property line
-if there's power running to it, I have no idea what's wrong. Most likely the power got severed somewhere. Underground line, I presume.

I think that about covers it. This was done on the cheap, however many years ago. The interior is probably ply, and not done very well. I believe before we moved in a year ago, it was a very old couple that lived here and probably didn't have much use for it. It's my only outside the house storage, as I have a single car carport and my crawlspace holds my gas water heater and furnace - nothing getting stored down there.

So, I'm left with three options: leave it, rebuild, or repair. I'd really like to tear it down and rebuild, but I'm worried about having to move it due to code, and how expensive that might be. Repairing it wouldn't be that bad of an option, seeing as how the roof is in good shape. However it's not the ideal size (I think 8x8, perhaps 10x10 - need to measure). I would also want to make a proper foundation. I don't think it's going to fall down the hill, but still. The other thing is the wiring - I can do my share of fixing, but I've always been curious as to what exactly happened to the power supply. Did it get diverted when the extension to the house was built? That was ten years ago. Did they do without power ever since?

It needs at least the following if I repair:
-at least a quarter of the exterior walls need to be replaced
-carpet has got to go - may reveal damage to that particular corner
-rest of interior should be gutted. Walls and probably ceiling (if I don't leave an open attic) would become OSB.
-Window may need to be replaced. Might as well if I'm gutting it.
-Insulation install
-Need to figure out a way to vent the fumes from gas can and etc, while keeping temperature moderate
-foundation fix - hardest part of all

What say you? I wish I could just build a new one right beside it (and I might be able to) but there's very little of our yard that is flat. Future (perhaps this year) plans call for me to build two block retaining walls to give us a bit more flat area and drainage relief towards the house. Building or repairing doesn't faze me either way as it pertains to ability. I saw a 16x12 unit at Lowes that I would love to have, but I know I can beat their $5k price tag.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Find out what code is where you live. Just call the local building department & tell them you want information on building a storage shed and what codes if any you need to follow. In my area I can build a shed up to so many square ft without a permit as long as I follow set backs from property lines. They may have preset prices for permits depending on size of shed. I think you could build for less then the Lowe's unit also. 

Most time the cost of permits are determined by cost of project. It's a shed not living space so it will not cost that much. Since you are the home owner you would qualify as owner/builder on this project. So the cost would be determined by cost of material. They usually just ask for an estimate from you on cost. They don't ask for receipts of material because you are suppose apply for permit before you start so there would be none yet. If you use a contractor on a project they will ask for his written estimate he gave you & the contractor should take care of any permits anyway. If you go the permitted route it shouldn't cost that much. Calling for info may help on direction you go as far as repair, expand existing or just replace. After all how much could some plywood & a few 2x4s cost anyway?


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

If you repair existing you will need to get rid of the mold. Health problem. As far as gas can & the such. Could you build a small vented storage cabinet on outside of shed to house such items that give off fumes?


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## robersonjr (Dec 5, 2009)

Don't know about where you live, but gas should never be stored inside. Like James said, a small storage cabinet, well ventalated and outside should solve at least one of your problems. Robbie


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

got a match? If it were mine I would start all over again.. just my .02$ dealing with mold and with carpet sounds like its very wet,, what size is it? bad foundation and all if you start with junk you end up with junk


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I'm with James...... first see what is permitted........... Then build a new "shed/workshop" at a size that will be suitable for your needs. Either tare down the old one and use what material you can out of it or leave it standing and use it for storage.......I have a nice 8x10 (rocked/insulated/heat/cool) but too much work has to be done outside. My 8x10 often seems more like a storage building for my tools than a workshop. 16x32 would be the smallest I would go if I had the money to build a new shed/wokshop.......... but I don't have the money and time to be worrying about that now. 

I'm currently using my money on tools/jigs and material............ while diverting my eyes and thoughts from the 10x12 storage building in the back. Not this year but maybe next I'll look again at enlarging the building/insulating and running electricity to it oh and lets not forget moving/swithcing all of the stored stuff from one building with the tools that in itself is a deterrent.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

drasbell said:


> got a match? If it were mine I would start all over again.. just my .02$ dealing with mold and with carpet sounds like its very wet,, what size is it? bad foundation and all if you start with junk you end up with junk


I agree, Rick.

From the description of the rot, the mould and the rocky foundation, I would be looking to tear it down and start again. You may even find where the electrical cable went....

The health problems with mould are not worth it.

James


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## Larry Strawson (Feb 11, 2009)

drasbell said:


> got a match? If it were mine I would start all over again.. just my .02$ dealing with mold and with carpet sounds like its very wet,, what size is it? bad foundation and all if you start with junk you end up with junk


 I agree too, if its worth doing it , its worth doing right. Salvage what you can and get a better foundation, more space, healthier conditions and peace of mind.

Larry


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I got out there and tried to do some exploration yesterday. I thought that perhaps the electricity came up through the outlet to the two lights, and perhaps the outlet was faulty, opening the circuit. Nope. In fact, the outlet's only feed is to/from the overhead light, which in turn feeds the outside light. I took down a couple of ceiling panels to figure this out. There's another line going _somewhere_ but I can't see due to a roof joist. More exploration would have to wait until I'm ready to take down the rest of the panels.

The roof and joists look to be in excellent condition, aside from some sort of substance up there (possibly rat crap). The roof is actually insulated, as well as the walls. I couldn't believe it.

I think the structure is sound. Now I do have to fix one of the outside walls and gut the interior, but that looks like it. Whomever did the ceiling shouldn't ever be allowed to do another one, but that's a personal gripe. No effort whatsoever to match the panels to the joists, they added other pieces of wood so that they could nail.

I looked again under the shed, and can't for the life of me figure out how it was powered. I'm starting to think it had a roof-to-roof line going to it, but at some point that was removed. Possibly when the addition to the house was done. But that was ten years ago. Hard to imagine someone going for ten years without power out there, but the fixtures retaining their bulbs. Really odd. In fact, the oddest thing about this house.

I think I'm going to make this my running diary. Yesterday (after my demo and reinstall of the ceiling panels) I made a ledge for my Ryobi One+ tools to hang from, similar to this one: 









Any tips on how to maximize space in here? About 1/3 to 1/2 of it needs to be storage space (or the equivalent), so a big work area is out of the question. I considered taking out the top half of the walls and putting in pegboard, but perhaps a french cleat system would work better.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I vote for tearing down the old shed and starting from scratch. You will probably need a building permit. Also, check the zoning regulations for your area. Our SD restrictions don't allow anything portable such as the sheds that come off the back of a truck. Mine is secured to the ground as part of the real property. A new structure would give you the opportunity to build to your spec's and wire it for lights and powertools. I would also recommend a vent that goes along the roof peak and some windows for light and ventilation. Good luck! How about some pix of the new shed?


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days, and I decided I shouldn't dismiss the idea of tearing down and rebuilding. I am still favoring gutting, because I *think* it's going to be a lot cheaper.

Here's what I think I know:
-no building permit required for construction under $3000. I'm double-checking this as I type.
-setback for up to 144 sqft is 5'. This is currently what I have. Greater than 144 is 10'.

A remodel would consist of the following:

interior walls, ceiling and floor would be removed
OSB (I think) would cover everything. I might go with something paintable or coverable in order to increase light
Possible roof vent install
After the interior is done, insulation and the exterior would be replaced
If no permit is required, I would wire up more outlets and newer wiring when the interior is done
the one window might be replaced

If I tore it down and redid it, I'd of course put down better footings. Drainage would be addressed either way.

This is what I can figure out so far as to cost to gut:
-$20 per panel for 3/4 OSB T&G (x5) - floor - $100
-$7.50 per panel for 7/16 OSB - interior walls & ceiling - ~$170
-$100 for new window (we'll see)
-$60 - vent and flashing
-~$350-$400 - exterior

Obviously to build a whole new one I'm probably looking closer to $2500 than $1000. Really don't want to spend either, but something's got to be done.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Another question - what kind of light output am I looking at to decently light it? Whether I go for wired, battery or solar.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

There may be a possible problem with a re-do, as I'm planning on - the floor. I'm starting to wonder if, how it was constructed, the flooring extends below the wall studs and base plate. If that's the case, I'm not sure how I can replace it properly. I suppose I could add an inside base plate and attach to it, after I cut out everything on the floor except for what's under the base plate.

I'm glad this gives me things to think about at work, though.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Chris I am in the tear it down and start over camp. Repairs always end up more costly and more work then a clean start. (At least that's always been my experience.) Keep us posted!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

We'll have to see. I was thinking about it yesterday, and I think I decided on a preliminary course of action:

1) clear out the leaves and wood behind the shed. This will let me get a good look at the damage to the plywood exterior (which is pretty extensive up about 3 or 4 inches).
2) rip out the interior carpet. This will let me get a good look at the damage to the floor.

I pulled up a little bit of the carpet and saw that the floor is in really good shape, apart from where I assume there is damage at the corner. This may turn out more like an excision versus an obliteration. The ceiling has no damage, this is more of a preference thing. The wall on the damage corner is most likely damaged, but almost everything else is again a preference issue. There is some waviness above the window, I'm not sure if this is from the window being open and prone to humidity or if there's an issue with the roof drip guard.

I'm going to grab a chainsaw soon and take care of those stumps. That's got to be the first step - solve the problem first.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Chris... first and foremost.. you gotta know where ya stand! Start with the floor. You can't build on a bad foundation. Sounds like the floor was built then the rest of the shed built atop of that. Are there joists under the floor? any signs of mold, mildew or any of those nasties that can ruin a project? This is definitely one of those projects that require as much time planning and checking things out as it does to actually build. So far, it sounds to me as though you are cautiously moving along and looking at all the options. Something you will not regret later on into the build.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm not sure if the walls are built over the floor or not. Knowing my luck, it is. I'm not sure when the shed was build, but something tells me it's probably got me beat on age. And I don't know if it was redone at some point, either. I think when I repair the exterior damage I can get a good look at it and find out.

I was thinking, even if at some point down the road I decide I need to start over, because it's a standard lumber ratio (12'^2), I could easily reuse at least the interior materials if I go to a 12x16 footprint.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Took some pictures for posterity:





































After I took these, I got a nice little reorg done that netted me a lot more room. Actually feels more like a workspace now than a dump.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

And here's the update:

This is what I call 'no man's land.' That piece of ply is the old top of what is currently the router table. Once the new table is done, that will go back on and I'll have back two work tables again. (Left rear corner)










This is the shelf area, on top of where I can tell the most damage to the outside and inside are. I need to get in there and organize the shelves and take out the trash. (Left front corner)










This is the right side, you can kinda see the gap in the tables where the new router table will be stored (where that bin is). If I do it right, that whole wall will have a level work surface.










The white cabinet is where I keep all my detailing supplies at. Had a bit of a shelf collapse when the middle of the cabinet decided to get fat. Have to make some new shelves for it. Figured the side of it would be a great place for my squares. You can also see the clamp rack mounted on a French cleat, along with my box joint jig. Also in the shot is my new fence that I'm partially building the new table for. (Right rear corner)










This is the (current) router table along with my Ryobi hanging system. Made a couple little shelves on top of that so I can have my radio, some drill bits, safety equipment and my pencil assortment up there. You can also see the router bits and my new offset base on the front wall. That power cord reel is going to find a home right above where it's pictured, if I can figure out how to get it on the wall. (Right front corner)


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

It's starting to look like a workshop.  It will be a very nice workspace for you, already some good benches and storage.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks Deb. I already noticed one huge improvement - I want to go in there more often and tinker around. Not sure my wife likes this recent development.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

OK, so I'm in need of advice. I think this weekend I'm going to get in here and clear out anything I possibly can, and re-arrange my space. I feel so cramped in, and hope I can get a bit more space by moving some stuff around.

So here's where you come in.

I need to map out the next couple of purchases and additions. I just bought a miter saw, and was making the NYW chop saw station for it. I have it mostly done, and this thing is huge. I think it's going to ultimately be too big, even stored upright. But before I scrap it (and I'm thinking about it), I wanted to try and get some ideas about how this stuff is going to be stored and used.










That is how the right side of the shed looks right now. The left side of the shed is pretty much covered in junk. I'd still like to basically keep the same layout of table-RT-table, but on the back wall. I also have two four shelf storage units that will have to be factored in. I'm saving a bit of space by having all of my cordless power tools hung on the wall, but I'm going to have to redo that as well, as I added a few after I laid them out.

I'm certainly not opposed to adding casters to things, and indeed I probably will have to, considering I'm going to be moving things out of the shed to work on larger/longer projects. But I'd also like to be able to still use the RT inside. I'd also wouldn't mind being able to cut a piece of wood on the miter or table saw if it was just the one small piece. No sense setting up a huge production for a five minute thing - I'm less likely to do it.

What I'm thinking so far - I'm going to finally add the lower shelf to one or both tables. Under one table is probably going to be my shop vac and dust separator. Or that could go on a big shelf, I'm not sure which. I'd like to still easily be able to use them to clean up stray dust and junk that it doesn't get on the RT. Being under the table means I have to route it up behind the table and RT to connect to the fence. If there's a better solution, I'd love to know.

I'm also considering making this for the miter saw:
Shop Built Chop Saw Stand

Positives:
-looks like it can be stored pretty small. Miter saw can stay on it if needed/space.
-can be used with or without leaves, depending on need.
-really fast setup?
-can use it on any surface
-could be hung on wall?
-I already have most of the hardware, and possibly the plywood.

Cons:
-needs surface to go on or sawhorses
-I'm sure there are others

I was going to go with the idea of the NYW design, because it looked like it was easy to use and didn't take up that much room. I forgot how much room was in that workshop, and it made it look small. I also thought I could adapt the design of the legs to use with other setup tables for outside, but I may be better off with commercial folding tables for any outside work like that. Thinner and lighter. While I'd like to have something like a full bench for my miter, I'm almost positive there's no room for it. Unless I could double that space for a table saw as well, which I don't think I can do.

The thought of a rolling miter saw station (with the ability to store something underneath, like this: Miter Saw Station Woodworking Plan) is interesting, but again I'm not sure I have the room. I could try to design it so it fits under something to save room, but I think it would make it shorter than I would like.

I also need to come up with storage above the lawn mower. That's a huge deficit in my shed right now. If I can make a little cubby for it, it would open up a good bit of area.

Also needed is a scrap solution. I'm not so much interested in saving small bits, but the leftover ply pieces, which can be sizeable. I was thinking of going vertical or overhead with these. 4x8 pieces of ply is by far the most annoying thing to go buy and bring home, so I'd like to do it as less as possible. Since my overhead light doesn't work anyway, should I think of a way to put it up against the ceiling?

Really having to think about the direction I want to go in from here on out. I need to plan, and plan well, or I'll get frustrated and not want to do this kind of stuff anymore.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Chris you might find this shop layout planner useful. I used that and Google Sketchup to help me figure out a floor plan for my shop.
Also you might consider a folding stand for your miter saw?


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

CanuckGal, thanks for the link for the shop planner. Saved it to favorites. I'm in the process of getting organized and need to come up with a good plan for the shop. That way I can justify the cost of remodeling part of the garage.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for that link. I wonder if anyone has a side-in planner to go along with a top-down one. I may have to learn Sketchup, but that might take longer than just building a bigger shed.

Decided to get a premium sub to Plans Now! considering there's at least four plans I wanted to try. Got a 20% discount right off the top, so I get 20 plans and 2 books for $24. Not too shabby.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Haven't found any software as of yet, so I'm going with the tried and true method - graph paper and pencil. It's been really helpful so far, and I've only done half of one wall. 

I've already discovered a couple new storage solutions. I am indeed going to go ahead with making that totable miter saw station, as it will fit under my table, and I think the saw will fit on it as well under there.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Very hard to see, with a crappy 2MP camera and it being 9pm when it was taken.

All the carpet is out. There was probably 35 years of dust and ick that came out with it. Most of it (and a BUNCH of other stuff) is sitting in about 10 40g trash bags at the bottom of the picture. Those go to the curb tonight. Ripped out the front area, moved stuff around, did another corner, then did the rest. What a cluster. It's completely unusable at the moment, but it's darkest just before the dawn, right?

Got the tables set up on the back wall as per my master plan. Once the trash gets taken out, I'll be able to start playing a little bit with the layout to see where the storage stuff will get put.

Made a low shelf in a corner and was able to put my golf equipment over it. The lawn mower motor tucked under it nicely. Before I made the interior look like a earthquake hit, it made a HUGE improvement in workspace. I got rid of about45 cubic feet of boxes and stuff that I had been meaning to throw away, so I should have even more room when everything gets sorted. And in a couple of months, I'll be able to throw away more (I tend to keep boxes for large purchases about a year - the huge TV box and everything in it goes in August).


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Glad to see that you are making progress, Chris.

How does the shed look now that you have had a chance to do some clean out?

Did you ever find out about the wiring?

James


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

The floor looks to be in really good shape, aside from one spot where it looks like it melted. Impossible, but that's what it looks like. I think I'll be looking to cover it with a garage-like tiling system. I'd like to find one that has minimal tread, though.

The walls will probably be replaced with OSB. Is 7/16 too thin? There is some decay at the corner where I've had problems. Peeled back a wall section in that area and see that it does have at least some insulation behind it. The shed is definitely wired on the interior, but it's still a mystery as to how or why it does not have power right now. I've looked under there a couple of times and don't know where or how the power got to the shed. 

I still think that the power supplied was from the roof. The reason I think this is because there is a small gap in the eave of the shed where something like that could have gone through. It could just be a building mistake, too. But I think my hunch is right, partly because there was a loose wire headed in that direction in the joists (that I couldn't source), and that I still haven't found anything headed to the ground under the shed.

Another thing to note is that the house gets power overhead as well. The meter is on a back wall facing the shed, but the box is on an inside wall with limited under-house access. I don't honestly know how expensive it would be to have power run out there, even if I did what I could myself, and if it would be worth it. I don't particularly enjoy running an extension cord every time I want to cut or rout, but it's what I have to deal with for now.

If I run power, I might need a permit. If I have to get a permit, I may want to consider starting over. Not something I can budget for right now, or even in the foreseeable future.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Made some major progress this week, despite the heat.










Getting there. Tables where I want them.










New left rear corner. Apparently, they built this thing with horizontal studs. Good lord. Had to engineer up a bypass. Incorporated a bit of storage until I get my next shop project done.










The right rear. Keeping the old clamp rack for now. You can make out the new saw.










The left front. That's my golf stuff sitting on a shelf I made on top of the lawn mower. Huge space saver, and I'm making another shelf in front of that for storage.










The right front. Still needs a bit of work, but you can see the line of thinking. Hmm...need to get some new shelves for my detailing cabinet.










There we go. Much better.










Not bad for the stock Chinese blade. Smooth as a baby's bottom.










There she is, the new addition. Now I have enough room to use it inside if I absolutely had to.










And the miter saw station, it's done minus a little bit of finish work.

Thanks for looking.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Excellent progress! It's a workshop alright!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I also finally got a clue as toward the electricity situation, but I'll elaborate on that at a more decent hour.


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## Chuck-grmi (May 18, 2010)

WOW!!!!!

Before I saw those pictures. I was thinking tear down and start over. But now with all you have already done and looking at the pictures, I would just replace the rotted siding pieces, repaint the whole thing and call it good.

It's already looking good.

Build a new one and keep this one for storage when you have time and money.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

"I don't particularly enjoy running an extension cord every time I want to cut or rout, but it's what I have to deal with for now."

_I understand how you feel.

I have to run a lead each time I want to work in(near) the shed

My shed is 10x10 out the back 

James


_


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

jw2170 said:


> "I don't particularly enjoy running an extension cord every time I want to cut or rout, but it's what I have to deal with for now."
> 
> _I understand how you feel.
> 
> ...


You aren't the only one with this issue. Many have to do the same thing. 

BTW, nicely done on your "shed". After reading this thread for the first time, I was with a few others in the beginning, tear down, start over. Sometimes though, as you've discovered, salvage what you have and work with that is also the best solution too.  Great job!!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for the kind words. 

I talked to a neighbor, and he 'shed' some light on the electric situation. Apparently at one point, the wired the interior and got that done. Then they laid Romex on the ground and went with that for awhile . That didn't last and the experiment susbided. The previous owner was apparently extremely elderly (80s-90s), and only drank beer in it. 

I'll be consulting an electrician at some point to see if hookin it up would be worthwhile.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

BTW, if I had to guess what I've put into this (not including tools), I'd say about $50 tops. And that's including the metal shelves I picked up on clearance, about 6 2x4s, and a prorated sheet of ply.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Cocheseuga said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> I talked to a neighbor, and he 'shed' some light on the electric situation. Apparently at one point, the wired the interior and got that done. Then they laid Romex on the ground and went with that for awhile . That didn't last and the experiment susbided. The previous owner was apparently extremely elderly (80s-90s), and only drank beer in it.
> 
> I'll be consulting an electrician at some point to see if hookin it up would be worthwhile.


In the future, if you're thinking of doing a rewire job and wanting to run it under ground. I believe they use what's called "RF" wire. Doesn't necessarily need to be ran through conduit, just dig a ditch an bury it. I'd still get with an electrician and check your local code(s) though, just to be safe.


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## Maurice (Sep 24, 2004)

Hey!
80 or 90 aren't extremely old, we're just getting started second time around!


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## harrywc (Mar 20, 2010)

.. more familiar with "UF" wire if i recall correctly. "UF"= underground feed. On a kind note, i've enjoyed this thread... and the sweat equity that bypassed the naysayers.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks. I've put a little time trying to catch my family up on the progress with the link in my signature. Not as detailed, naturally.

Got the second shelf over the lawn mower done today, I hope to implement it tomorrow.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Okay, a bit of an update for those not seeing it in other threads.

I know since I posted last I added a floor standing drill press and a planer. Right now, I'm trying to reconcile physical constraints. What I'd like to do is mount the planer on a flip-top stand and stow it under a table. I have a cart that will sit under the drill press. I'd like to make the vacuum and dust collector mobile.

Here's the question I ask: my table saw is 36" high. Would it be better to make all the stands be able to accept outfeed on it, either by stock height or adding a folding surface to them, or make the tables 36"? Either way, the planer and the DC are going to roll under the tables.

And I'd like to figure out a way to make my miter saw station go under there too, and not nearly kill myself putting it on my metal shelving.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Chris,

Years ago I saw an article of a triangular rotating top "cart" with a planer on one face, a grinder on another and a scroll saw on the third. The tops were rotated depending upon what tool was needed with the other two pointing down.. Would it be possible to use a cube shape rotating block with the planer and saw on opposite sides, stored with a flat side up under the saw? It'd be wide but maybe low enough to go under? Just an idea that might give you a better one...


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I thought about that, but with only two I think it would be fairly unstable.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

That may be, especially if one is much heavier than the other. You'd definitely need some retainer bolts or something, even if it was even. Maybe someone else will come up with a better idea >>hint, hint <<


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I've seen a one of those triangular work stations in use. Essentially a 3 sided wagon wheel. Rotating on a bearing hub. Locked in place by a couple of spring loaded cleets on each side. When it was in position, it was surprisingly sturdy. There was however a bit of rocking side to side, not much mind you, but enough to keep in mind. My thought was that the older the thing got, the more slop it would have. But there again, nothing that couldn't be adjusted for by one means or another. The opening between sides of the bench pretty much determined which tools you could mount up. A small planer, bench grinder, ws3000 or the like, scroll saw, collapsible belt sander etc. would all work alright, However, anything relatively large, top heavy or just plain heavy would make controlling the thing between changes a bit cumbersome as you rotated the unit. At least I think it would be... Most likely something you just have to expect then get used to doing. 

What about a modular platform system? Each piece of equipment mounted to a similar base/platform which in turn mounts to a fixed counterpart at your bench. When not in use each piece of equipment can be stored away mounted in a vertical shelving unit by just sliding it in and out. Pretty much shelved one unit above another. Everything will be relative to the size of the bench tools you have, but I have seen several of these in wood mags over the years and think that in a limited space might serve the user quite well. Staging of the bench tools should be done by weight and users ability to slide then lift into position. Heaviest in the middle perhaps, lighter one higher in the stack... etc...


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I've seen a one of those triangular work stations in use. Essentially a 3 sided wagon wheel. Rotating on a bearing hub. Locked in place by a couple of spring loaded cleets on each side. When it was in position, it was surprisingly sturdy. There was however a bit of rocking side to side, not much mind you, but enough to keep in mind. My thought was that the older the thing got, the more slop it would have. But there again, nothing that couldn't be adjusted for by one means or another. The opening between sides of the bench pretty much determined which tools you could mount up. A small planer, bench grinder, ws3000 or the like, scroll saw, collapsible belt sander etc. would all work alright, However, anything relatively large, top heavy or just plain heavy would make controlling the thing between changes a bit cumbersome as you rotated the unit. At least I think it would be... Most likely something you just have to expect then get used to doing.
> 
> What about a modular platform system? Each piece of equipment mounted to a similar base/platform which in turn mounts to a fixed counterpart at your bench. When not in use each piece of equipment can be stored away mounted in a vertical shelving unit by just sliding it in and out. Pretty much shelved one unit above another. Everything will be relative to the size of the bench tools you have, but I have seen several of these in wood mags over the years and think that in a limited space might serve the user quite well. Staging of the bench tools should be done by weight and users ability to slide then lift into position. Heaviest in the middle perhaps, lighter one higher in the stack... etc...


I had thought about the modular system as well, and on the BT3 board someone showed me a picture of the vertical cabinet. I'm concerned about trying to wrestle the planer or miter saw onto a shelf. I haven't dismissed the concept yet, but it's not my favorite.

Really, I'd be fine with putting the planer on the flip cart if I can figure out a way to store the miter saw under the bench and not need a cortisone injection every time I take it out. When I head out there this afternoon I am going to see if there's a way to store it vertically on a little U-shaped dolly that could roll out. If that would work, I think I would be set, since the majority of my other power tools are hanging on the wall.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok, then, here's something off the wall, literally through the wall. *L*...

You have your MS mounted to lets say a piece of 3/4" ply. nothing special, just a squared off piece of ply the sits atop you bench when the MS is in use.. The back side of the ply is 'hinged' to the bench itself.. You build a shadow box out into the wall behind the MS. When not in use, you simply lift up the MS and store out of the way. Cut the 3/4" ply platform a bit bigger than the opening this way it would prevent the MS from traveling back too far. You'd have to frame out the opening (no biggie) then build yourself a box on the outside wall of the shed which would house the MS when not in use.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

For the rotating systems, you could always add weight to the lighter tools to balance the 'wheel". Once balanced, it would be quite easy to rotate. The additional weight Shouldn't affect the pivot much.

You could use a bronze bushing and solid steel rod for the pivot. Two flanged bushings (install from inside into a light press fit hole), a steel rod (I'd use 1/2") and two locking collars to hold the rod in place would make a really good pivot. The steel rod should go from one side to the other so there would be no bending load on the bushings (all bending is in the steel rod - no moments on the bushing or sides of the cabinet).


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm in-progress on the planer cart, and it's turned out well so far. I went with a simple method, one that I'll be paying attention to for stress as it goes along, but seems to pivot well at least for now.

I did a long write-up on the blog about what I've done the past week or so.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

When are you going to level it, I'm not sure I can help but let me know. I will be going on vacation next wee and be gone 10 days+/-


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

The shed or the cart?


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It's amazing looking back at the status of my shop over the year, especially some of the pictures. Here are somewhat recent ones.







And here is the upcoming project:


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> It's amazing looking back at the status of my shop over the year, especially some of the pictures. Here are somewhat recent ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now you have shed....

A great reward for the effort put in...:sold:


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Right nice looking work space!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks guys. I'm chomping at the bit to embark on putting in the walls and getting started on the cabs. 

These are going to be my audition piece, as it were. Hoping to take on redoing a kitchen in 2012.


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

A very nice slice of work space there Cocheseuga! Not bad at all


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It's been a very busy three months. Plans change as well.

Removed one interior wall and put up beefier OSB and started a french cleat system. The other walls are pending.

Tore down my UTS and built a cabinet/miter saw station and will be building a SYP bench this summer. Removed some stuff and put some new stuff in.

    

In a year I've gone through the following:


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Awesome transformation! Well done!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I've spent the last nearly year making the final transition to a shop. Still no power, it's unlevel, but I can do some fun things in here. I've made enough room where anything I need to do I can do inside. I made room for a floor jointer, a spindle sander, and I bought the bandsaw almost exactly a year ago. Some other tools have joined the fray, and almost everything that's not tool related has gotten the boot.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> I've spent the last nearly year making the final transition to a shop. Still no power, it's unlevel, but I can do some fun things in here. I've made enough room where anything I need to do I can do inside. I made room for a floor jointer, a spindle sander, and I bought the bandsaw almost exactly a year ago. Some other tools have joined the fray, and almost everything that's not tool related has gotten the boot.


How big is the shed? It looks much larger......

Great result.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I am definitely a believer in building, rather then having one built. May not be cheaper, but you get a lot more for your money. I spent the same when I decided to build rather then have built (Home Depot), but I got a much better shop. Instead of the shell that Home Depot was going to build, using 3/8ths beaded exterior paneling, I used 5/8th treated T1-11. I insulated the ceiling and walls. I used 2x8's on my roof instead of 2x4's that Home Depot uses. I then, about a year later, built a lean tool to move the garden equipment (mowers and gas). And the lean tool, I left a lot of venting.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> How big is the shed? It looks much larger......
> 
> Great result.


Hi James. It's still the same 12'x12' (11.5" interior) space that I started with, but I've found a layout that really suits the place.

I got tired to building stuff and never completing it because I saw a new idea, so I've been making extensive use of Sketchup to do my planning before doing anything else. I've gone back and forth so many times I want to see it in 3D before I waste any more plywood.

The only major things left to do are to replace the three remaining original walls, window, doors, then build full width upper and lower cabinets where you see the router table and miter saw. The router table will slide up under the cabinet or be attached to the table saw, haven't quite decided yet. Then it's minor things like drill bit storage, cordless tool storage, etc.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

N'awlins77 said:


> I am definitely a believer in building, rather then having one built. May not be cheaper, but you get a lot more for your money. I spent the same when I decided to build rather then have built (Home Depot), but I got a much better shop. Instead of the shell that Home Depot was going to build, using 3/8ths beaded exterior paneling, I used 5/8th treated T1-11. I insulated the ceiling and walls. I used 2x8's on my roof instead of 2x4's that Home Depot uses. I then, about a year later, built a lean tool to move the garden equipment (mowers and gas). And the lean tool, I left a lot of venting.


Lee, I post very little these days, but after looking at your shop I just could not help myself. You have a great lay out and lot's of neat stuff in that building, but the thing that brought a smile to my face was the rod and reel tucked away among the tools. 

Fishing is one of may favorite hobbies.... right on up there with woodworking, just like you. :yes4: Your post made my day.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

LOL, thanks Bob. If I had a close up of that rod and reel, you would see all the spider webs on it. LOL I don't think it has moved from that spot since I put it there after finishing the shop in '06. I actually had a lot more fishing gear, but gave most of it to my son, and just kept that little rig in case I get the urge!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Gearing up for a full width cabinet install, whenever the weather and some free time line up. I took out two more walls and the stringers behind them and replaced with 7/16" OSB. Knowing what was behind them this time left me a lot more prepared for their removal and cleanup.

What I wasn't prepared for, unfortunately, was the discovery of a very large amount of big carpenter ants. Both walls. I don't know if they took up residence since I had done the other wall, or if the other wall just wasn't as appealing. Luckily, they were moving slowly and I was able to kill them all. Might have been a winter thing.

I hate ants. Despise them. The scene in the latest Indiana Jones movie gave me the heebie-jeebies something fierce. I have nightmares sometimes of ant invasions, the ground looking like it's moving only to discover that it's not the ground that's moving. *shudder*

Anyway, back on topic. Walls are up and now it's almost time to start on the cabinets. Still trying to figure out where exactly my planer is going to go.

Clockwise from left front corner:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

It's unanimous, I think; sounds like you need Terry 'The Torch'... 

My shop's 12+' X 27' and I wish it were twice that. Fortunately one end is an automatic garage door so I work with it open, weather permitting. Anything smaller would be pure hell.
(Coincidentally, I'm just taking a lunch break from tearing down a rotting 8' X 20' garden shed/ rat hotel in my back yard...gross! Even the dog is disgusted.)


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Not familiar. Canuck?

I'd take Mike Holmes. House and shop are case studies in what not to do.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Terry 'The Torch'...*

Nope, not necessarily... he's the go-to-guy when your business is failing


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## Hexhead (Jul 12, 2009)

Ya start over theres are always evils hidden in the dark on rebuilds, you'll end up just throwing money at it as you discover new problems, it like a car it good to keep it on the road as long as possible but some times ya just got to put her down.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I passed that point two years ago.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

WOW!!! what a transition from where you started to where you are today....nicely done!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks Bill. Hope to get the rest of the walls done, a new door and new window by the end of the year. We'll see where the budget is though.

The cabinets are the next step, followed by a Holzapffel bench for hand tools.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

If you happen to have one nearby, Habitat for Humanity has 2nd hand shops that quite often have excellent deals. Doors, windows, materials, hardware..etc. Even some of the Goodwill stores have a space for materials. Hit em at the right time and you just might find yourself one heck of a deal!!!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

It reminds me of the Tardis.

I cannot believe you fit all that in a 12 x 12 shed . I will have to rethink my 10 x 10....

Great result from where you began.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Nope, not necessarily... he's the go-to-guy when your business is failing


Now I gotcha.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> If you happen to have one nearby, Habitat for Humanity has 2nd hand shops that quite often have excellent deals. Doors, windows, materials, hardware..etc. Even some of the Goodwill stores have a space for materials. Hit em at the right time and you just might find yourself one heck of a deal!!!


I've been scoping out Lowes and Home Depot clearances for broken cabinets. Almost pulled the trigger on one.

Unfortunately I don't have regular access to a truck (trailer I was using went away - long story), so I have to coordinate supply purchasing. I've yet to make it up to the Restore Store, but I should do that one day. At the least I might find some granite for sharpening.

I'm good on drawer and door handles - Ikea was having a clearance and I bought at least 50 of them for a few bucks.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> It reminds me of the Tardis.
> 
> I cannot believe you fit all that in a 12 x 12 shed . I will have to rethink my 10 x 10....
> 
> Great result from where you began.


Thing I'm most proud of is finding space to use the table saw inside. The space should be even better once I make better use of the upper half of the walls.


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## wm460 (Feb 12, 2012)

Great use of space, well done.
I'd better stop whingy about the lack of space in mine.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Please close. New thread can be found HERE.


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