# Inra Lift or Triton Router? Have Incra LS Table



## Psychbiker (Jan 8, 2013)

I have a Bosch 1617 plunge and fixed kit. I also have an Incra LS router system and the matching magna lock plate and a complete set of the magnetic smaller inserts. (bought it all used of CL with 100 bits) 

The Fixed bosch base is mounted in my router table and bit changes and height adjustment is a chore. The above table height adjustment only work when I reach down and unlock the router. The router drops 1/8"-1/4" every time. The adjustment C clip retainer has popped off several times. 

I'm trying to decide if I should get the Incra lift or go with a plunge router like a Triton that has above table adjustments. 

I currently have one full size router and trim router, bosch 1617 & colt, and often will use the 1617 in table and out. I'll also use it to trim brass for reloading rifle rounds on a press. 

Sooo.....if I get the Incra lift I'll likely hunt down a deal on a motor just for the lift eventually. If I go the direction.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The Triton doesn't need a lift and I haven't heard members complain about there being slop in the mechanism that causes it to drop. You still have to reach in and unlock it to change it. That and the extra heat buildup is why I don't box my router in. I have heard a few complaints about 1 or more lifts that were also slipping but I can't remember which ones.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

A lift will generally double your cost. The lifts have the advantage of doing very precise micro adjustments. 

The Triton could easily be adjusted with set-up bars or profile guides.

It comes down to how much you want to obsess about .001 of an inch in your cuts. 

If you want .001 precision, get the Incra lift. 

The Triton will have the advantage in price and being able to use it for mutiple projects and both inside and outside of the table. 

The lift motor combos are going to have a slight edge in ease of making micro adjustments over the Triton.

It comes down to the types of projects you want to do on your table. .001 of an inch isn't going to make huge difference most cabinet profiles, beds or coffee table. It will matter on a Jewelry box, chess piece storage case or any fine detailed and ornate projects.

The micro adjusters on lifts are also great for doing a lot of detailed freehand work.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I had a Rockler lift, which slipped. I replaced it and my 1617s with a Triton TRA001 and am VERY HAPPY with the combination. Reaching under to lock and unlock is trivial. If you want a clear picture of how it is to use the Triton, look up Sommerfeld videos on YouTube. Great technique as well. This talk of a thousanths is pretty meaningless. This is wood, not metal working. I wish I hadn't spent the money on a lift. I really prefer working with the Triton.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> I had a Rockler lift, which slipped. I replaced it and my 1617s with a Triton TRA001 and am VERY HAPPY with the combination. Reaching under to lock and unlock is trivial. If you want a clear picture of how it is to use the Triton, look up Sommerfeld videos on YouTube. Great technique as well. This talk of a thousanths is pretty meaningless. This is wood, not metal working. I wish I hadn't spent the money on a lift. I really prefer working with the Triton.


No one ever obessed about .001 of an inch until Incra, Dowelmax and a couple other brands started hammering on consumers about out by .001 of an inch. 

A piece of common laser paper is .0016 of an inch. 

There's people who give bad reviews for the Dewalt 7491 bad reviews for the saw table being 1/32 out of being 100% true on the table surface. 

Welcome to the age of the internet.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Might as well through my two cents worth in. Tom is absolutely correct about no need for a lift being accurate to a thousandth of an inch, it took me, as most of the members know, quite awhile to come to this realization.

A case of needing and wanting is another matter.

After being very disappointed with with two inexpensive routers in my router table I went to a Porter Cable 893. Part of the decision to go with the Porter Cable was the above the table adjustment feature that turned out to be of no value when the router was mounted beneath the table. This was, as I have pointed out beforer, due to the debris getting between the motor and the case that the motor slides up and down in. The debri would bind things up and no satisfactory adjustment could be made. So, then I was confronted with an issue that had only one good remedy, which was a good lift. I purchased the Incra Mast R lift which was the best decision that I could have made at the time. At least that was thinking.

I could have gone with the Triton instead of the PC but in that I didn't, well it was to late after buying PC.

Even though the very fine adjustments are not really of great value in most cases, due to my quirk of still thinking in terms of more precision than is needed the Incra lift was a good choice for me and I have never been sorry for it. The less powerful PC motor has done everything that I have asked of it with no strain at all.

The combination of the Mast R lift, the Wonder Fence and the Incra 17" LS system makes an extremely good set up. Do have to admit that the cost of all of this stuff may well be more that many people want to spend. What one buys depends on what one wants wants to do with their router and what one is willing spend for it, just like anything else in life I guess.

Smooth and accurate adjustment are done easily above the table with on slippage and no need to unlock from beneath the table.

By the way, in regard to what a thousandth of an inch is, as I recall, 
one grain of talcomb powder is about .0001" in thickness. If that is true, and I may not be remembering right, then it should more than confirm the the fact that such accuracy in wood working is of no value.

Going back my obsession with benchrest shooting, there was a rule that if a shooter thinks that a target measurement is wrong, he or she could challenge the measurement, it costs a dollar to do so, or so was the rule when I was shooting 40 years ago. If the second measurement was within .020" of the original measurement the intial measurement stood. Many matches were won and/or lost by less than .020" by the way.

Jerry


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Might as well through my two cents worth in. Tom is absolutely correct about no need for a lift being accurate to a thousandth of an inch, it took me, as most of the members know, quite awhile to come to this realization.
> 
> A case of needing and wanting is another matter.
> 
> ...


I'm looking at the Incra lift too. If I buy the Kreg table, I plan to use the Incra aluminum plate.

At $150 for the Incra Plate, It wouldn't be a huge leap to get the Incra Master Lift. If decide to buy the 3.25 Millwakee Router, the Jessem made Incra Lift is a given. 

Kreg's plastic mounting plates are worthless for heavy routers.


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

I have the Triton mounted in an enclosed table. It does indeed drop if you don't lock the height adjustment, but I reach under the table to turn on/off the power switch which is interlocked with the chuck lock, anyway.

I haven't experienced any heat build up, but my shop vac is connected to do both under and over-table dust collection, so I think the air flow it creates helps the cooling issue.

A lift is almost always better than the above table mechanism built into the Tritons, but the built in mechanism is always better than no top-of-table adjustments, so.....


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

CharlesWebster said:


> I have the Triton mounted in an enclosed table. It does indeed drop if you don't lock the height adjustment, but I reach under the table to turn on/off the power switch which is interlocked with the chuck lock, anyway.
> 
> I haven't experienced any heat build up, but my shop vac is connected to do both under and over-table dust collection, so I think the air flow it creates helps the cooling issue.
> 
> A lift is almost always better than the above table mechanism built into the Tritons, but the built in mechanism is always better than no top-of-table adjustments, so.....


Sometimes it a mater of, do you buy a Lift and a Millwakee router or do you buy a Triton and a Dewalt planer. 

The Incra lift is pretty close to the price of a Dewalt Planer.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have the PC 895 router and a Kreg router table and I can unlock and adjust my router from above the table. I leave the router switch on all the time and have an external on and off switch. I can also unplug the router at the switch for safety. So except for changing speeds and cleaning the router I don't have I don't have to take the router out.

https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-895PK-4-Horsepower-Fixed-Plunge/dp/B0000DCBKN


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## Wood Chip (Apr 10, 2011)

My Triton lift holds its setting consistently well. It is permanently attached to my Kreg table. I love it!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Let's see, $340 for the lift, $140 for a Bosch motor is $480. $270 or so for a Triton, that's just about $210 difference, not figuring the 1hp difference into the equation. You have to reach under to flip a lever to positively lock the Triton, but not the Master Lift. Precision is about the same, particularly if you're using jigs to set height, say, on a door set of bits. If you're living on a tight budget, that's a significant difference, but if you have income or make money from your tools, it's insignificant. Gets pretty subjective, doesn't it. Sometimes you just want what you want.


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## Psychbiker (Jan 8, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Let's see, $340 for the lift, $140 for a Bosch motor is $480. $270 or so for a Triton, that's just about $210 difference, not figuring the 1hp difference into the equation. You have to reach under to flip a lever to positively lock the Triton, but not the Master Lift. Precision is about the same, particularly if you're using jigs to set height, say, on a door set of bits. If you're living on a tight budget, that's a significant difference, but if you have income or make money from your tools, it's insignificant. Gets pretty subjective, doesn't it. Sometimes you just want what you want.


Those are the #'s I've been coming up with too. I didn't know the Triton was that less when compared to a lift plus router motor. I could get the Incra lift, $340 shipped, and use my Bosch 1617 for now, however, when I need to do handheld work, I'll have to remove it from the lift which I read can be tedious. Not as easy as removing from the mounted fixed base that it's currently in. 

I'll have to see if one of the Incra plates I have can accommodate the Triton. Two came with the used router table I bought. I drilled one for my Bosch 1617 and the other I'm not sure what model it's for. 

Since I have the Incra LS system, Incra offset table, and Incra magnalock plate I figured might as well stay with Incra. The cost difference is about another router it seems. 

I don't need a planer BUT could put the extra $$ to a rotary phase converter to finally power an old 16" Powermatic Planer I found.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Psychbiker said:


> Those are the #'s I've been coming up with too. I didn't know the Triton was that less when compared to a lift plus router motor. I could get the Incra lift, $340 shipped, and use my Bosch 1617 for now, however, when I need to do handheld work, I'll have to remove it from the lift which I read can be tedious. Not as easy as removing from the mounted fixed base that it's currently in.
> 
> I'll have to see if one of the Incra plates I have can accommodate the Triton. Two came with the used router table I bought. I drilled one for my Bosch 1617 and the other I'm not sure what model it's for.
> 
> ...


As costly as the Incra lift might seem, it'll probably outlive the router and MDF table top it's mounted in.


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## Psychbiker (Jan 8, 2013)

Lift came today AND Rockler was having a special on the 7518 Porter Cable. Get a $100 gift card with purchase. I'll likely spend $100 there in the next 6 months or can always sell the gift card.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

DesertRatTom said:


> Let's see, $340 for the lift, $140 for a Bosch motor is $480. $or so for a Triton, that's just about $210 difference, not figuring the 1hp difference into the equation. You have to reach under to flip a lever to positively lock the Triton, but not the Master Lift. Precision is about the same, particularly if you're using jigs to set height, say, on a door set of bits. If you're living on a tight budget, that's a significant difference, but if you have income or make money from your tools, it's insignificant. Gets pretty subjective, doesn't it. Sometimes you just want what you want.


I think that your analogy is spot on, couldn't agree with it more. I wish that I had been more familiar with the Triton router early on. I'm sorry that I went the way I did but it sure would have been a good consideration.

Jerry


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## Pugsbrew (Aug 1, 2013)

*Triton drop*



Cherryville Chuck said:


> The Triton doesn't need a lift and I haven't heard members complain about there being slop in the mechanism that causes it to drop. You still have to reach in and unlock it to change it. That and the extra heat buildup is why I don't box my router in. I have heard a few complaints about 1 or more lifts that were also slipping but I can't remember which ones.


I have the Triton, and it does drop, after routing, when it is unlocked. I have heard this from numerous individuals on other forums. One work around is to reach underneath and tighten up the height adjust knob before unlocking. I really like everything else about it.


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

If you have an Incra LS positioner then you should get a router lift. Some of the joints, such as through dovetail joints, work only if you get the bit height precisely set. Some of the fancier joints require you to determine the proper bit height using a dovetail bit (which is also used to determine the proper thickness of your wood), the bit is replaced with a straight bit, used to cut some parts of the joints, then the dovetail bit put back in set to the same height as before to cut the rest of the joint. Screwing around with inaccurate under the table adjustments is a frustrating waste of time.

I have three router lifts, my favorite is a master lift II.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Terry Q said:


> If you have an Incra LS positioner then you should get a router lift. Some of the joints, such as through dovetail joints, work only if you get the bit height precisely set. Some of the fancier joints require you to determine the proper bit height using a dovetail bit (which is also used to determine the proper thickness of your wood), the bit is replaced with a straight bit, used to cut some parts of the joints, then the dovetail bit put back in set to the same height as before to cut the rest of the joint. Screwing around with inaccurate under the table adjustments is a frustrating waste of time.
> 
> I have three router lifts, my favorite is a master lift II.
> 
> ...


A Triton should be just as accurate with the use of some set-up bars. You shouldn't need a router lift to pull it off.


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

Steven Owen said:


> A Triton should be just as accurate with the use of some set-up bars. You shouldn't need a router lift to pull it off.




Setup bars are of no use with an Incra fence.


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Obiously from my previous posts, I am on the same page as Terry. The Incra Mast R lift along with the the Incra LS system is a great combination.

One thing I learned to do with the lift and the micro adjust feature is that of setting up and cutting miter lock joints.

I was never able to cut cross grain cut in a single pass so I did the following. The first step is to get the height of the bit correct. I have the gauges that some people use but because of vision problem they are hard for me to use and even when I used them the single pass on cross grain just didn't work for me. The material would chatter and buck so that a smooth cut was impssible.

In order to get the height of the bit correct I simple make a ball park practice cut and then using my dial calipers I can measure how far off center the cut is. I first mesure the thickness of the stock and divide by two to find where the center should be. Once I know that I use the calipers to determine where the center of the practice cut is. The center is where the male and female cuts meet. This measurement will tell how much the bit needs to raised or lowered in order to be correct and this adjustment is in thousandths. The accuracy of lift makes adjusting the final height of bit very simple and dead on.

Once that the bit is set the next step is to set the fence so that shallow cut are made. I make several of these shallow cut moving the fence just a little rearward after each cut until the final cut leaves a nice sharp edge at the top of the cut without reducing the width of the stock.

Next I zero the insert in the carriage that has the marks on it with the cursor so that I can, once again go to making my shallow cuts on the actual material being used in the project. I conting making the cuts and moving the fence rearward unto the cursor on the carriage is back to where the cursor on the carriage is on the previous zero mark.

This works for both the cuts with the material flat on the table as well as the ones with the stock flat against the fence for the opposing cut. The results have turned out to be perfect with no chattering during the cuts even with cross cutting in hard wood which was impossible for me earlier. The lift and micro adust used together makes this a simple endevor.

I will be the first to admit that the process could be accomplished without the llft and micro adjust but they do make the job so easy and fool proof, at least it works well for me and I like it. It took all of the frustration of using the miter lock bit for me. 



Jerry


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That sounds like a very nice way to do it to me. Anyone using your instructions should get great results. There are many ways to accomplish things, your method seems sound to me. I use micro adjust in similar ways, like in your method usually the micro adjust isn't used initially, but to tweak adjustments.

The thing I like most about the micro adjust is the movements I make directly relate to eh measurement on my digital dial caliper. So if I count spins on the micro screw I know how much it moves, feelers are so much more cumbersome at best, far less precise at worst. I use this same method for mating matched radii when I use a circle jig as opposed to making a perfect height adjustments, but the theory is the same.


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## Psychbiker (Jan 8, 2013)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Obiously from my previous posts, I am on the same page as Terry. The Incra Mast R lift along with the the Incra LS system is a great combination.
> 
> One thing I learned to do with the lift and the micro adjust feature is that of setting up and cutting miter lock joints.
> 
> ...


I'm saving that info Jerry, thanks! I picked up a new lock miter bit on ebay for cheap and decided since I got a deal on it, that I would spend the $$ on the Infinity Tools lock miter master jig. These tool/jigs were created by a guy on the Sawmill Creek Forum. Havent used them yet.


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## Geevesmac (Jul 15, 2014)

I spent an hour or so today trying to set a mitre lock bit with my in-table Triton TRA 001, which requires test cuts, and adjustments. I use the lock lever with each setting, however I have been frustrated by the bit dropping when I release the lock, as I loose the height reference. There have been plenty of references over the years to this problem, but I have not seen a definitive solution, or if anyone has established how it happens.
All help much appreciated.
Greg


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

It happens because the internal elevation screw vibrates and unscrews itself when the router runs. The problem goes away if you leave the plunge spring in when you mount it in the table, but then there is so much friction that it's trouble to raise from above the table.

You can avoid the reset problem, by before unlocking the lever, reaching under the table and turning the height adjustment knob until it contacts the carriage again. And then unlocking the lever. You can partially avoid the table by ensuring that you always make your adjustments on the "up turn" of the height adjuster. That keeps the screw in contact with the carriage better. But it doesn't work every time reliably. 

I'd like to find a lower tension spring to replace the plunge spring to see if that cures the issue.


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## Geevesmac (Jul 15, 2014)

Many thanks Charles.
I put the spring back in this morning, and I had no issue with it dropping, although it was a bit stiffer to raise with the winder. The lower tension spring sounds like a good idea.
Where is the internal elevation screw located ?


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

Geevesmac said:


> Many thanks Charles.
> I put the spring back in this morning, and I had no issue with it dropping, although it was a bit stiffer to raise with the winder. The lower tension spring sounds like a good idea.
> Where is the internal elevation screw located ?


It's between the winder and the elevation knob. Be careful using the winder and the plunge spring together, I've heard that the gear is only plastic and can be stripped easily, but have no personal experience.


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## Geevesmac (Jul 15, 2014)

Thanks for that Charles. Yes, I have read some had plastic gears, and later ones had metal. Still, don't want to push my luck. I am going to remove the spring, and when in use check the position of the height adjuster is firm before releasing the lock. Appreciate your help.


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