# I need a bunch of help



## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

I bought a NEW in the box Craftsman Router-Recreator off of eBay. Ownr assured me it was new, never been put together, but the box had been opened. Well, I guess I have a different view from his description. Since it's missing parts, but most can be made or bought (usual hardware/nuts/bolts/washer/etc). BUT what I can't get away from is that the wood panels (that make up the body of the tool) is missing. We're talking 4 pieces of wood that tie the front and back together and 2 panels that are actually used for the base upon which it replicates. 

Good news, Sears still sells these, bad news, they are $23 each and I need 4.

So, now here's where you can help me. I need a drawing of these panels (all 4 are the same), so that I can make my own or someone may know where I can find these things for a lot less than the price at Sears.

If anyone has one of these that are now scrap, I'd be more than willing to pay a decent price and shipping for these panels and any other parts I may need and you may have.

Thanks for your consideration!
Jim Smith


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

Al you need to do put the frame together and pickup some 3/4" MDF cut the boards to fit the frame and mark them for the bolts to hold it to the frame..
It's that easy 

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j_h_smith said:


> I bought a NEW in the box Craftsman Router-Recreator off of eBay. Ownr assured me it was new, never been put together, but the box had been opened. Well, I guess I have a different view from his description. Since it's missing parts, but most can be made or bought (usual hardware/nuts/bolts/washer/etc). BUT what I can't get away from is that the wood panels (that make up the body of the tool) is missing. We're talking 4 pieces of wood that tie the front and back together and 2 panels that are actually used for the base upon which it replicates.
> 
> Good news, Sears still sells these, bad news, they are $23 each and I need 4.
> 
> ...


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Al you need to do put the frame together and pickup some 3/4" MDF cut the boards to fit the frame and mark them for the bolts to hold it to the frame..
> It's that easy
> ...


That would work if all I wanted was a base. However, I would like to make 3D items, plus there are some nuts and bolts along the back of the unit, that I'm not sure what they are meant for. If I could get just one panel, I can make my own. I would rather make them, then buy the MDF factory panels, for obvioius reasons.

I've been looking for drawings of these panels and I can't seem to find any on line. I'm not in any real hurry to get this tool up and working, but it would be nice.

Still no luck with the seller. I doubt I'll get any satisifaction, but if I don't he will get a very bad seller feedback from me. How can someone say they are selling a NEW in box when some of the most important parts are missing?

Off my soapbox and calming down once again.

Thanks!
Jim Smith

Jim Smith


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## andysden (Aug 9, 2011)

did you pay by pay pal if so complian to them and they will go after him plus e bay will talk to him. Andy


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

andy's Den said:


> did you pay by pay pal if so complian to them and they will go after him plus e bay will talk to him. Andy


Yes, I did pay with Paypal. But I had a bad experience where they didn't address an issue I had concerning an albino Ball Python. They did nothing. I had a vet report, but they just blew me off.

As far as eBay goes, I've never had to complain about a seller, so I don't know what will happen.

I'm going to give him until next Tuesday and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice!
Jim Smith


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jay

Just ask him for a little cash back for the MDF boards you didn't get in the deal.

Just asking what did you pay for it off eBay ?  they are very hard to find for sale anywhere...
Short some parts is not a big deal , like they say, some will get up tight if they get hung with a new rope.. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw1bHaUk1CM

====


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jay
> 
> Just ask him for a little cash back for the MDF boards you didn't get in the deal.
> 
> ...


The biggest issue was that he was not responding to my emails. However, I did get a response today and I have asked him for the missing parts. If he can't find the parts, I also asked for some money back.

We will see how he responds. Hopefully by tomorrow.

Thanks for the help!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

Sounds good  Good Luck, I would love to see the add off ebay 

==



j_h_smith said:


> The biggest issue was that he was not responding to my emails. However, I did get a response today and I have asked him for the missing parts. If he can't find the parts, I also asked for some money back.
> 
> We will see how he responds. Hopefully by tomorrow.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jay
> 
> Just ask him for a little cash back for the MDF boards you didn't get in the deal.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. I paid $150 plus $25 for shipping. I'm not worried about any of the parts that I'm missing. I can buy or make any of the missing parts. However, I don't think the MDF frame should be one of the parts missing from a NEW IN BOX item. That's a pretty big part to not be included.

I'll be fine either way, but it would be nice if he steps up and give me a refund. I think $50-$60 would be fair. I can buy 1 panel from Sears ($23 plus shipping), use that as a template to build these panels out of plywood, buy quality nuts and bolts (no Home Depot cheapies), then I need to make a stylus or two. 

Also, there were additional parts in the box that are not part of this tool. I was confused when I started the inventory of parts.

Thanks Again!


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Sounds good  Good Luck, I would love to see the add off ebay
> 
> ==



Sure thing!

KR0002 CRAFTSMAN ROUTER RECREATOR MAKES 3 D REPRODUCTIONS 113.251890 | eBay


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Maybe this will help:
Sears Craftsman Router Recreator 113.251890 Own. Manual | eBay


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

rwl7532 said:


> Maybe this will help:
> Sears Craftsman Router Recreator 113.251890 Own. Manual | eBay


I have the original manual. That's how I found which parts I'm missing.


Thanks for the help!


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Jim, First of all, welcome to the forum! You will find quite a few exceptionally well-informed router users as well as woodworkers on this forum! Your problem is about a tool with which I have never used, but after looking at the advertisement on EBay..shame on the seller, but a bit of that shame is also on you - the box to me does not appear "new". Not even close to looking "new". _You are most likely a very honest person_, and this explains your naivety; and your desire to trust others. As BobJ3 has told you, fortunately the missing parts should be easy to replace. Those panels appear to be quite simple to replace and nuts, bolts, etc. are easily available at numerous outlets.

I noticed you mentioned an "Albino Ball Python" that you also purchased off of EBay...Wow! You truly are naive to trust on the purchase of an animal as fragile as an albino (anything) alive. Do you keep snakes, or were you looking to make a quick profitable turnover? I ask, because I am a snake collector - and have been for over 50 years. You may send me a FaceBook friend request and after my acceptance you may view most of my collection. The built-in cages were built by me, and I used my *router* on the doors - which are my own design and they have functioned exactly as intended. I, too; keep Ball Pythons as well as several other constrictors, for a small collection count of 22 snakes and a handful of lizards. I've had several BP's to live 30+ years in my care, and I've bred them numerous times. 

My name is Otis Polk Guillebeau III and my *Router Forums* "handle" is *OPG3*


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim


If you only paid 25.oo for shipping you are getting a deal, when I pop up the add it states 78.oo for shipping charge, I don't think he will refund 50 to 60 bucks more like 15.oo to 20.oo if that  it's just some MDF boards with holes in them.

Note all the other items he is selling he is not a user of it just buying and selling items on ebay..

I tell you what I will do, if it will help I will take off one of the boards and take a picture or two of it with some details..let me know..

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j_h_smith said:


> Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. I paid $150 plus $25 for shipping. I'm not worried about any of the parts that I'm missing. I can buy or make any of the missing parts. However, I don't think the MDF frame should be one of the parts missing from a NEW IN BOX item. That's a pretty big part to not be included.
> 
> I'll be fine either way, but it would be nice if he steps up and give me a refund. I think $50-$60 would be fair. I can buy 1 panel from Sears ($23 plus shipping), use that as a template to build these panels out of plywood, buy quality nuts and bolts (no Home Depot cheapies), then I need to make a stylus or two.
> 
> ...


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

OPG3 said:


> Jim, First of all, welcome to the forum! You will find quite a few exceptionally well-informed router users as well as woodworkers on this forum! Your problem is about a tool with which I have never used, but after looking at the advertisement on EBay..shame on the seller, but a bit of that shame is also on you - the box to me does not appear "new". Not even close to looking "new". _You are most likely a very honest person_, and this explains your naivety; and your desire to trust others. As BobJ3 has told you, fortunately the missing parts should be easy to replace. Those panels appear to be quite simple to replace and nuts, bolts, etc. are easily available at numerous outlets.
> 
> I noticed you mentioned an "Albino Ball Python" that you also purchased off of EBay...Wow! You truly are naive to trust on the purchase of an animal as fragile as an albino (anything) alive. Do you keep snakes, or were you looking to make a quick profitable turnover? I ask, because I am a snake collector - and have been for over 50 years. You may send me a FaceBook friend request and after my acceptance you may view most of my collection. The built-in cages were built by me, and I used my *router* on the doors - which are my own design and they have functioned exactly as intended. I, too; keep Ball Pythons as well as several other constrictors, for a small collection count of 22 snakes and a handful of lizards. I've had several BP's to live 30+ years in my care, and I've bred them numerous times.
> 
> My name is Otis Polk Guillebeau III and my *Router Forums* "handle" is *OPG3*


His description was NEW IN BOX. I understand that to mean that the contents of the box are as they were when shipped from the manufacturer. Now due to time, I did not expect them to look shiny, but to have parts missing is just wrong, particularly what would constitute the frame of the tool. 
I did understand the box had been opened, but I also expected all of the contents to be included unless otherwise described in the ad. His ad does not say any parts were missing. 

The missing parts that concern me will cost me $23 EACH X 4 to replace. 

The box surely is not going to LOOK like new, because these units haven't been made in close to 30 years. Naivity has nothing to do with truth in advertising. 


I did not say I bought an albino ball python off of eBay, I said I paid for it using Paypal. I've got a ton of money tied up in my business and take exception to you calling me naive over everything I do. You are entitled to your opinion, but there is one thing sir I am not, and that's naive.

I expect to receive what I am told I am purchasing, when it is not as expected, yes, I am going to raise a fuss. 

I came here looking for help and everyone has given me their best ideas. I don't need you to tell me how little I know about the world.

My apologies to everyone else. I don't take kindly to being talk down to.


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> 
> If you only paid 25.oo for shipping you are getting a deal, when I pop up the add it states 78.oo for shipping charge, I don't think he will refund 50 to 60 bucks more like 15.oo to 20.oo if that  it's just some MDF boards with holes in them.
> ...


The shipping quote is a feature that eBay uses. If you are a registered user, eBay can calculate the shipping costs to your zip code. 

Thank you for the very kind offer, but I have made contact with seller and am awaiting his response. We'll see what happens next.

Thanks again for the offer, i do really appreciate that.
Jim Smith


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hey Jim, It was said in a complimentary way, "_You are most likely a very honest person_, and this explains your naivety; and your desire to trust others." I sincerely apologize for the mistake if you thought I was "talking down to you". Rereading your original post, I see that it doesn't say anywhere that the snake was purchased via eBay - again, my mistake.

I was going to tell you how I get my 3d drawings turned into exact precise models, but I guess you're not interested now that I've [inadvertantly] pissed you off! *OPG3*


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Note to self: The word "naive" hits a nerve. Don't use it.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ralph, I think I will use that same "Note to Self". That word gets used on me regularly, but I've never taken offense to it. Several months ago quite a few people sent me FaceBook Friend Requests - which "mushroomed" to around 1,200 new FB Friends - I was accepting anyone and everyone that were also collectors of snakes. It wasn't long before many of my (actually personal) friends were telling me about some things they were offended by from several of my newer "friends". Turns-out, I was using only the common interest as my criteria, and had not noticed that several of them had been posting photos of "additional interests" they had photos of on their FB pages. I ended-up removing about 1,150 of the newer ones, including "Miss July" (complete with photos that my grandchildren do not need to be viewing). My wife, my daughters and numerous others told me I was naive. It was done laughingly and I still am not offended! *OPG3* Well, you win some and lose some, I certainly didn't win this one!


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks for your note.

Please share your 3D drawing technique!!


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ralph, My "technique" is to utilize AutoCAD "Solid Modeling" software. Basically flat items are drawn as "polylines" and using numerous other AutoCAD commands (such as Extrude) and viewed from varying perspectives: Top, Front, Back, Left, Right and Bottom. Additional items are drawn and added with Union or removed with Subtract. There are quite a few AutoCAD commands useful for 3d drafting. If you're into AutoCAD, I can go through it in much greater detail.

3d drawings are often merely a tool, and as an example usually used (in my case) in filling the need for multiple isometric views, but on occasion the files are exported into .stl file format and emailed directly to a vendor/contractor who makes a "Solid Model" a.k.a. "3d Plot". My vendor (in Knoxville, TN) has about a 10-14 day turnaround time on sending me back the finished product, but there are some local (Atlanta, GA area) operators who can give me a 3 day turnaround - but these are considerably more expensive. These prototypes from Knoxville have been made of a mixture of gypsum and latex, so are kinda fragile - but extremely accurate dimensionally speaking; however, their model size limitation is in the neighborhood of an 11" cube (X,Y,Z). I make quite a few prototypes in my shop, but they are made from wood, plexiglas, lexan, metal, ceramics and glass. Working models with moving parts are my favorite thing to make, but they are private to my clients, me and a few staffers. This is due to legal reasons imposed by the USPTO.

Actually, in my spare time; I am making a Router Circle Jig that is a hybrid of two of Harry's styles made into one Jig, and soon I hope to publish it and I will draw it up in AutoCAD 3d with some Isometric Views to be included. I've already begun the sequential photos of what I did Sat & Sun, but in total have about 6 hours in it thus far.

Another 3d source for me has been Highland Hardware (my absolute favorite woodworking tool store - located in Atlanta), They have a guy there (Ben) that has a duplicator that will absolutely recreate anything I know of with a [tangible] model as a pattern. AutoCAD is a software I've been using daily since 1988. *OPG3*


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

I just got an email from the seller. He has refunded $65 to my Paypal account. So, I will be ordering 1 panel and will then make my own out of plywood.

Thanks to all!
Jim Smith


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Good seller.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

Some guys just luck out  , may I suggest Baltic Plywood if you are going to used plywood at all , the boards must Not flex at all and stay true  the boards that come with the fixture are cabinet grade MDF with a clear plastic coat on them ..
I also suggest you use and buy truss head machine bolts(bigger head than the norm machine screw) with keps lock nuts ( the nuts with the ext. lock washer fixed to the nut) some of the nuts are hard to get to..

=========


j_h_smith said:


> I just got an email from the seller. He has refunded $65 to my Paypal account. So, I will be ordering 1 panel and will then make my own out of plywood.
> 
> Thanks to all!
> Jim Smith


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## j_h_smith (Oct 29, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Some guys just luck out  , may I suggest Baltic Plywood if you are going to used plywood at all , the boards must Not flex at all and stay true  the boards that come with the fixture are cabinet grade MDF with a clear plastic coat on them ..
> I also suggest you use and buy truss head machine bolts(bigger head than the norm machine screw) with keps lock nuts ( the nuts with the ext. lock washer fixed to the nut) some of the nuts are hard to get to..
> ...



I've got some cabinet grade plywood in the shop. What do you think of that? However I'm not sure how thick the panels are. I guess I'll see after I get the one panel from Sears.

Thanks!
Jim Smith


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