# Dust. I hate it. What do I do?



## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi Chaps,

Im an occasional poster here- I last asked about birch ply (I had warped sheets/ & as recommended ditched the supplier- fab results/ far better stock).

I make guitar amp cabs for a major hobby/ part time work, and about to embark on a whole new workshop, I hope soundproofed (another thread for ideas on this I'll do). 

My 1st issue is dreaded dust. I use 2 portable routers, one set up for fingerjoints in a metal jig = the main culprit. The dust & wood chips completely cover me: so much so I lump it & go head-to-toe in masks & waterproof overalls so i can brush myself off. An absolute horrible situation. Sweat & covered in wood (80 x 1/2" fingerjoints for each cabinet.. means a heck of alot of wood extract/ piles of dust). I use a shopvac attatched to the router, but the jig & the solid baseplate & tight bit underneath leave no room for any vac effectiveness + me covered in extract. 

What do I do here to eleviate the situation? Im thinking a more powerful 1Hp Clarke dedicated extractor.. bit this has a 5" pipe.. so how on earth Im meant to A) somehow connect to a 2" std router pipe, and B) actaully get my jig (& its hardwood block its attatched to/ I keep this unit 5" x 12" call it on a shelf I whip out to do the F-joints, then sling it back swearing with sweat in my eyes) vented to then try & think somehow of sucking the extract out the backside, away from me, down a pipe to connectto the 5" thing. Ive never seen a proper wood workshop you see, or anyone usung a F-joint jig at all to get any ideas. 

Is the usual / std wood workshop dust extractiion method follow this 1Hp system with a 5" pipe? if so how do you use the huge 5" pipe onto the few various machines I would use? IE router as said, 2nd router to cut 10" circles/ holes in ply, general similar portable router ways, and also a circular saw (i dont have a tablesaw), a chopsaw & a sander (awful fine dust from this) with its vac pipe-out-the-back thats a royal pain to keep attatched moving the sander around.. it invariably comes off as it has weight & tension in the long plastic shopvac pipe.

Thanks BIGj.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Big, going up and down in pipe size will not be efficient. If you have a 5" opening at the vac impeller then you need a total of 5" of opening at the other end(s) or you'll have a restriction. While velocity increases, total air volume reaching the vac decreases so that you have less air to float the debris with. Also, unless the the neck downs are long and smoothly tapered you'll get turbulence at the transitions and particles drop out of the air stream at these points.

Part of the problem sounds like from what you describe is that there isn't enough air flow around the bit and base plate to pull the debris into the air stream going into the vac pipe. I would try and improve on that first. I have a home made fence on my table that has about a 3" x 3" box built around the bit opening and with a 1 1/4" vac hose I capture about 95% of all dust and debris when edge routing which is why I suspect lack of air flow is your problem.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Big; lots of questions there!
You don't mention what brand of routers you're using(?)...
I can't speak for all brands but the big name brands have accessory dust port attachments.

for example...Bosch 1617 kit https://www.boschtools.com/ca/en/bo...n-attachments-tool-specific-ra1172at-27258-p/
But whether or not it's practical to use with the FJ jig I can't say.
On the 5" pipe thing, the two most common sizes for the main run are 4" and 6", mostly because PVC pipe and fittings are relatively inexpensive compared to some of the alternatives.
5" is certainly a better choice than 4" if your dust collector has the capacity to move that much air efficiently. What kind of piping and fittings are you (planning on) using? 
Other members will bring up the subject of an intermediate chip separator; the size of that will be largely determined by both the DC and the piping size. Dust Deputy isn't sized for 5" let alone 6" pipe.
If my 1HP DC is typical, I doubt it has the muscle to power a 6" system.

Expect lots of opinions on this topic!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I've struggled with this over time and have come with solutions at that work fairly well. These might not all apply to your situation but at least you can see that there are ways to route a lot cleaner!

First thing to do might require a change to your approach(es). I like to trim my pieces to minimize the amount of material the router removes. This helps cut down on the dust significantly. I know some guys use the router like a saw, if you you are doing that you will create a LOT of dust.

Secondly, I've moved to routers that have good dust collection. While not the forum favorite, I really like my DeWalt 618 with plunge base - very good dust extraction built in. To back this up I built a dust collection cart for all my 2 - 2.5" port devices. Works great. I've added a couple of pictures of it. The bucket contains a thien baffle to get the big stuff and the shop vac has a HEPA filter. I use a controller for the vac - plug the router into it and the vac runs when the router runs. Works really well.

Secondly, part II, I've incorporated dust collection into my router table and use plate inserts that improve it's efficiency. Hooks up to a 4" line to my DC system. Here are some pix Note the use of the Incra clean sweep inserts - makes the down draft DC work really really well.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm in before this goes to 17 pages!

If you are only using one or two machines that make dust, bring the extractor to the machine. Every foot of trunking is losing you suction.
use the biggest tube you can for as much of the distance as you can, but 6" is large by any home workshop standards.

I suggest downsizing to 4" (100 mm) straight out the vac. then use a 4" flexible hose of 8 foot or less, straight to your working machine. Build a trolley for the vacuum to allow you to move it.

If need be, split the tube right at the router and use 2 x 3" pipes to catch as much dust as possible.

Cyclones are a different thing from your immediate problem. They greatly reduce the need to empty bags, but I dont think thats your first worry.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I just purchased the Harbor Freight 2hp dust collection on sale a few weeks ago. It was on sale for $183 with the added 20% coupon. So I got a second one after testing the first. I have a 2 hp HF blower in my old system, which didn't produce sufficient air flow, but HF unit has a much heavier duty motor, and the impeller blades in it are much larger than the older blower. The suction on this thing qualifies for the "sucking a golf ball through a garden hose" status.

The HF unit at full price is about the price of brand name 1 hp units. And when I inquired about it, many Forum members endorsed it. Having used it, I can attest to its power. It also comes with a reducer from 6 inch to four, so you can attach both 4 inch and smaller collection hoses, which should work for your specialized work. I know that many speaker enclosures are made from MDF because of its unique audio characteristics. MDF dust is among the most dangerous of all materials, carcinogenic and such fine particles that the lungs are unable to clear them out.

I use a 20 foot long flexible, 4 inch hose rather than fixed hard plastic pipes. 

The HF unit comes with a 5 micron bag/filter, which will be floating in the air in your shop. I am going to put mine outside the work area. In the garage, I'll roll it out onto the driveway for use. For the shop, I'll have it in a lean to, attached to the outside of the shed. I will probably buy a new cylinder filter for the shop unit, which should increase the air flow even more.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

BTW, you can get a flexible tape to seal the joints in the dust collection system. Gorilla makes a nice tape that is very flexible and doesn't leave residue when removed the way duct tape does. In my small shop (12x24), all dust producing tools are located on one end so hose runs are not that long. The HF unit comes with casters, which are fairly small, and you might wish to use 5 inch casters to make rolling it around easier.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

I have three dust collectors - a three horse, a one and a half and a one horse (soon to be replaced with a two horse). Operating these beasties I've figured out one thing I seldom see talked about in detail, which is attention to the pick up hood.

For example, a lathe tosses a lot of wood on the floor and the operator. For that reason, I made a dust hood from an 8" PVC pipe. First, I cut a hole in back for the four inch hose to connect to (had to build that up to over come the round part of the pipe. Then I cut the thing out in a kind of C shape and plugged the ends. When done, and when I take the time to position it, the C shaped hood grabs most of what the lathe kicks off. Importantly, it grabs ALL the dust.

In a similar vein, I built a sanding table. Unlike most, I put sides on mine. After all, if the thing is free to grab air from all around itself, it's not really going to be that efficient. My sides raise and lower and are locked in position with standard 10-24 knobs. Over the top is just a piece of nylon I had lying about. In the end, the station is one big collection hood and it's efficiency makes the ones sold for a few hundred bucks look like kindergarten toys. I even use it to router projects that fit in it. It doesn't catch all, but it catches a whole lot.

Finally, there is my carving machine (duplicator). Obviously, this thing can toss a lot of wood. However, with a four inch tube stationed at the carving point (supported from the top, so it doesn't get in the way, not much gets away during a project.

Each of the items I described are tied to the three horse and get to it by way of a Super Dust Deputy Cyclone.

Now jump to my band saw. While the horse and a half collector tied to its port does a fair job, an awful log never makes it over to the little throat plate. For that reason, I set up a second hose on a presentation easel and put that hose near the trouble area. In the end, most of the dust is removed.

The obvious common denominator in all of these situations is the collection point, or hood. Of course, and within reason, more powerful is better in the world of dust collectors. Because the sanding station works so well, I have contemplated making another, about three feet or so wide to accommodate bigger router projects. Because of the nylon top, I can stick long pieces out and still coral most of the air movement.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Cyclones are a different thing from your immediate problem. They greatly reduce the need to empty bags, but I dont think thats your first worry.


true, but once the collection issue is solved, that one will rise to the top!


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## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

Guys you're replies Im super grateful for (I only just got a mssg that s'one replied.. let alone 5 or 6 replies I dodnt know of! fantastic thx).

I will go thru them all in detail later today. I do see a shopvac + dust cylcone thing mentioned.. actually I made a cyclone thing similar: and it works & collects dust fwiw well enough. But it doesnt eleviate the problem -before- the pipe stage, or increace the vacs suction. It just collects dust more in the trapezoid cyclone chamber than the vac. Actually 1 prob is, I still even with this addition, get quite a bit of dust in the vac itslelf too.. esp at the thin 'gasket' filter before the motor: this gets ultra-clogged so often its more or less like so all the time (= vac only 60% efficient & prob straining somewhat too). I cant be done taking the dust-covered vac apart, dust covered myself sweat dripping under my full mask & goggles, 3x a day, undo the filter & whack it clean: this causes terrible fine dust/ worst of all.. then Im covered even more. Where do I whack it clean w'out covering myself even more??

Its an infernal situation I cant think how to eleviate. But I will go thru all replies later. Ive been thinking of some sort of front collector/ front chamber addition to the F-joint jig block so the dust & extract doesnt fire directly at me covering me head-to-toe but is mostly collected instead to them get sucked down thw vac pipe. This is PRIMARY consideration. But how/ what/ if one exists/ whether anyone else has done or made one/ whether I could buy s'thing along these lines.. lord only knows.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FWIW...
I have the Leigh D4 w/ the router support and vac attachment accessory...
https://www.leighjigs.com/vrs.php
My routers are a pair of MRC23's... one w/ straight bit for hogging the other for the DT bit...
both routers have dust collection hooding...
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/bo...hments-medium-large-routers-ra1177at-34564-p/

if you hate dust half as much as you say you do you'll get you a real collect w/ cyclone and in the 2 plus HP range or otherwise I believe you will leave yourself wanting...
I have the jet...
JET | Dust Collectors for Woodworking | Vortex


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@BIGjiLm...

how come after six years you still haven't done a thing w/ your profile except ignore it...

oh nameless one....


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## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

Erm.. well Stick Ive only posted 3 posts in 6 years!.. and it would take me all day to add a profile & a f'ugly mug shot like your fine features!!

Thanks for replies. The Leigh link is exactly the idea.. thats great there's something designed precisey to adress my prob. Thats a major start, but I bet it costs a fortune. The Vortex too.. fine massive suction I bet.. but another fortune.

Those give me food for thought. Im already thinking how to add my vac pipe to some sort of Leigh-clone similar basic idea.
The suction I get from my shopvac thing actually is good (once the filters been whacked clean.. again). Its just a Q of how to collect/ how to maximise the placement/ design/ of it relative to the shooting-out of the extract. A hood would be a great idea, 3 Hp superb.. but a router isnt a fixed position like a lathe: its inherrantly a portable affair moving side-to-side, around, round, along etc etc. As it is I have the pipe attatched and say cutting a speaker 10" hole it fine/ the attatched pipe sucks up 95% well. But other jobs it picks up 5% due to the nature of where the bit is and the enclosed (or not as the case is when it doesnt suck the extract up at all) nature of beolw the bit and the surface its cutting: ad edge? no suction as theres space below the bit. On a ply cut a hole? great as tits all enclosed with no space below.

Im wondering if Im also using the wtong tools tbh. As it is Im using a circular saw along a straight edge I whack onto a ply sheet.. then cut my straight line, say a 18 x 15 ply perfectly sqaure (well as best I can using this way): this has 0% extract removed/ the pipe isnt even attatched as theres no point, massive space around the blade/ not enclosed/ even if I got a pipe to the back of the Csaw it would do nothing at all. Then a chopsaw: again I cant see any way of sucking the extract in any way shape or form from xy or z contraption. Then the router in the F-joint jig.. and you see Im nt only covered heat-to-toe, evrything in the garage after a week is covered in a fine layer of dust. It gets -everywhere-. Each time I work Icreate maybe 1 whole buckets' worth of extract from chips down to the finest birch ply dust. A nightmare.

maybe Im not using the right router type thing? a table-mounted router instead of a portable: is the idea here dust-based?? Ive never seen one (heard of the idea tho). A tablesaw? again is the idea here dust-based over a Csaw?

Im doing all this with no pro experience or anyone I know who has anything similar, even a router I dont know a yone who has one. I do have a local timber merchants who have a workshop (heaven to me) with a tablesaw, and other huge expensive stuff: the size of each thing tho.. but they do have a dust system which.. what.. goes under and is near the Tsaw blade to suck the extract down? I will have a closer look & Qs next time Im there- thats prob the best idea. 

Thanks BIG Jilm


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@BIGjiLm 

I break down big sheet goods outside. I have three 2x4s spanning the back of my truck and cut large sheet goods down while they're on the truck. Bed of truck contains a lot of the sawdust, and when I drive off, it blows clean. 

Your shop vac should help a lot with dust collection, but you probably need some sort of separator to pull off most of the solids so your filter isn't always jammed up. Easiest way to do this is with a bucket or trash barrel with a Oneida Molded DIY Dust Deputy Cyclone attachment on top. You attach the vac to the top center port and run a hose from the side port. Sawdust spins, most of the solids fall through into the bucket, and not much of it goes through your shop vac. Cost is $52 for the cyclone attachment, whatever the cost for the bucket or trash barrel (with a top), and a hose from the cyclone to the tool. Don't know if you have a table saw. If not, save your bucks up for the Bosch 4100, which is very good to work with and has a decent dust collection setup.

Here's the link to the cyclone: https://smile.amazon.com/Oneida-Mol...004&sr=8-1&keywords=sawdust+collection+system


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## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

I have a separator DRatT. It collects plenty in it, tho still say 1/6th gets into the vac chamber (& so ultimately clogs the filter after a while).. but thei actually isnt the issue here. Its the relationship between X powertool and the pipe.

I'll look into tablesaws I think, that one I'll have a look at. Maybe Im doing alot on the chopsaw I should be doing on a tablesaw or s'thing.. I dont know. Mind you its a great tool v. conveniently designed.. but absolutely no extract collection possible at all, again due to the space around the business end, & nature of this moving blade section meaning an extractor can never be close by to be effective. My chopsaw creats masses of extract too, absolutely covers the walls, floor and everything after a while.

I need to completewly re-evaluate what tools Im using and how I can get an extractor. I shouldnt be working in the conditions I am, its completely absurd being covered head to toe totally bound up in wet weather gear, ear defenders, hat, & full facemask & goggles. I sweat enough as it is (& this situation cannot be good for my health either).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ideas is what it is all about...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

BIG; are you cutting a lot of MDF? Sawdust shouldn't be this much of a problem for you. 
Some of the members have posted pics of their SCMS sawdust collection...usually just directing the dust into a chute of some sort. The key being a large volume of air being drawn in and
4"' hose being the minimum. I doubt that a ShopVac has the power to be effective in the case of chopsaws or SCMsaws. 
.


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## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> FWIW...
> I have the Leigh D4 w/ the router support and vac attachment accessory...
> https://www.leighjigs.com/vrs.php
> My routers are a pair of MRC23's... one w/ straight bit for hogging the other for the DT bit...
> ...


Stick, following sort of the basic idea (as a test) of your Leigh vac/ jig link.. I re-appraised my F-joint set up with the pipe clamped in front (not onto the router/ useless here, for this job). Just an open 1-1/2" vac pipe, good suction/ cleaned the filter again.. and PROGRESS! ok far form ideal, but I wasnt covered in extract! alot still to sweep up, but, the vac pipe seemd to be of good use albeit 50% nothing more sucked up. 

Its (a huge burger's worth) food for thought as to how to improve this basic principle. Invaluable help just that link. 

Ok so Im thinking along utilising the vac house long attatchement thingy (the usual monkey one has ones valet cleans ones house with). This should negate the need to shift the F-joint along in 3 steps to aim for the vac pipe end, as I seemed to be doing (actually pretty effectively).

What a improvement already. Excellent. Actaully I found vac pipe hole back ogf my chopsaw too, which was partially useful only, but also a minor improvement.

I just now have to consider A) a table-mount router principle (as I guess the stationary bit position facilitates a vac pipe right up to its underside.. maybe this is the very reason for this router config), I dont know Im guessing alot here).. and B) a tablesaw instead of a Circular saw for cutting my ply sheets into ~19" cuts: this is another major cause of dust, and nasty stuff too with formalydehyde (birch ply) etc. I wonder then whethwer this saw config again is principally this stationary-blade affair primarily with dust extraction in mind.. again I dont know I'm only guessing.

Thanks a bunch. BigJ


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## MascaraSnake (Jul 26, 2010)

Hi DaninVan,

actually no mdf thank god. Just baltic birch ply.. which has formaldehyde in & has a nasty dust esp routed/ fine. I can treally afford a whole new 3hp 4" pipe system.. so its a Q of maximising the efeectiveness of my shopvac (a vax 7131 actually) relative to the X tool Im using. I like the idea of the chute attatchement.

Appreciate the help folks- better already.


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

I have no idea of where you are, Bigj, but if you're in the states I'd suggest watching Craigslist in your area for a dust collector. I bought my DC650 for $75 this way. It is so much better than my shop vac for dust collection that I was absolutely amazed. I'd like a bigger one still, but this one does a pretty decent job.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I recently got 2 Harbor Freight 2hp units for $187 on sale, without the coupon it was on sale for $229. It is a nice unit. You might also consider adding a dust deputy cyclone collector to your system. It is powered by a 2 1/2 inch shop vac attached to the top. You mount it on a bucket or barrel at the top. It should help a lot in keeping the vac filters clear. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B002JP3...UTF8&colid=1TSPCACUYOA5Y&coliid=I1EQXMG7TL45V

I would also suggest you consider purchasing a Rockler power air respirator. The battery operated mask's fan pulls air in through a filter. Mine also keeps my glasses from fogging because on my face, the air exits onto the lenses. https://smile.amazon.com/Rockler-TA...313&sr=1-1&keywords=Rockler+powered+dust+mask I can also fit a sweat band over the headgear on this mask.

Finally, noise protection: While wearing muff style works for me when its cool, they make me sweat like mad when its warm (Desert). So I use gel shooters ear plugs. These work really well for me. I just get mine in 3 packs from HD.


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