# Kreg ≠ Incra...specifically the Kreg Swing Stop!



## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Hey gang,

I wasn't sure where to put this thread (looked in the lobby but I saw too many topics about Windows 10 and hearing loss :grin: )

First, I just wanted to plug for Kreg customer service, they have been fantastic!

Second, I wanted to use the Kreg Swing stop (pair of them) atop my Benchdog Pro Router Fence, but my fence does not have a t-track on the top, so I added one, specifically a combo graduated/T-track from Incra. I took my time and even tapped machine threads (#6) into the top of the fence. When it all came together I painfully found out that the Kreg Swing stop does not work well in this Incra T-slot track. In addition, nowhere on the Kreg Swing stop does it say "for use only with Kreg T-tracks. There is just far too much play. I wonder if this is the reason for a number of "too much play" negative reviews on amazon.com? Here's what I'm talking about:






So, I email Kreg with this video and they got back to me and wanted me to call them. Long of short, they sent me their Precision Router Fence System for free. Yes I said free!

Then I purchased their Precision Miter Gauge System and found that the nylon set screws to adjust the play in the slide were fitting too tight and darn near twisting under stress when screwing them into the miter bar. When I call and talked to Ben this morning he immediately said he as heard the same and they believe the set screws I a bit too large but since they haven't 100% determined the issue he sent me a whole new bar and extra adjustment screws, again for free.

Just passing on the incompatibility of the Kreg Swing Stop and other T-Tracks and the great customer service Kreg has offered me recently.

Thanks,
Roy


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Excellent information...thank you!


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I had a problem with a Kreg product and called them. They sent me a new part and the problem was solved. 

PS- Kreg is a great company. That is my story and I am sticking to it. :smile:


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

This problem is a symptom of a bigger issue - general interoperability, or more precisely, lack thereof. Some of the Incra stops don't even work on different Incra products (LS fence vs miter gauge). The flip stop on my Incra miter gauge (1000HD) works great but doesn't fit the LS fence. Do those development teams actually talk to each other? I make a lot of stopped dados on my router table and a flip stop would be very useful.

My experience with various stops has convinced me to just make my own. I use 6/4 stock to make blocks and drill a hole at the right place to go into the T slot. But I'm still pondering how to make a usable flip stop for my LS. The flip stop on my Incra Miter gauge is actually pretty well made and works well on the miter. But, it has an "incremental positioning rack" that makes for 1/32" aligned positions. While that's supposed to be a feature, it's one I find more of a pain to use than not. The whole point of a flip stop is to be able to get the stop out of the way without removing it, not sure the incremental rack adds anything. Because of the rack, it doesn't fit anywhere else.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> My experience with various stops has convinced me to just make my own. I use 6/4 stock to make blocks and drill a hole at the right place to go into the T slot. But I'm still pondering how to make a usable flip stop for my LS. The flip stop on my Incra Miter gauge is actually pretty well made and works well on the miter. But, it has an "incremental positioning rack" that makes for 1/32" aligned positions. While that's supposed to be a feature, it's one I find more of a pain to use than not. The whole point of a flip stop is to be able to get the stop out of the way without removing it, not sure the incremental rack adds anything. Because of the rack, it doesn't fit anywhere else.


 @PhilBa

Here's my solution for a shop-built filp stop, Phil.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4876404/Action-sequence.gif


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

nice solution. but I would expect no less from you!


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

I find the "interoperability" issue a PITA! I bought Kreg T-track for my workbench, not really knowing that other tracks are not compatible with Kreg bolts. After investing in some hold-downs etc for the workbench, I decided to include some T-track in the router I am building. So I ordered some less-expensive T-track from Peachtree.

Needless to say, none of my Kreg bolts will fit my Peachtree track, in fact even the 1/4-20 bolt heads don't fit the Peachtree track properly because the mounting holes are not countersunk properly to all the screw heads to become flush with the track.

Oh, and I discovered that the miter track on my old (ca. 1983) Craftsman table saw is non-standard, so I can't use an after-market miter gauge or sled ;-(

Is there an easy solution, or is this a PC vs Mac kind of issue?

Thanks


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

The craftsman miter track issue is the worst by far. A perfect example of deliberate "lock-in". Arrogance proceeded their downfall.

The peachtree track is easy to countersink so you can solve that problem. toilet bolts often work in the skinny tracks. and some incra tracks (in their miter gauge, iirc) only take #10 screw heads. but yeah, it's all a big PITA having to deal with it. I usually make sure tracks I get will take standard 1/4" bolts. If the seller doesn't show dimensions or otherwise say 1/4" bolt, I move on.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Roy...watched your video a couple of times (nice, BTW) and wondered if you could loosen the hold down, twist in the larger boss and then clamp down...


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Nickp said:


> Roy...watched your video a couple of times (nice, BTW) and wondered if you could loosen the hold down, twist in the larger boss and then clamp down...


Yes Nick and it does bind up a little firmer, although it's not right because of 1. the flip stop is no longer square to the fence 2. with nominal pressure it will come out of lock and then be really loose.

-Roy


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Gaffboat said:


> @PhilBa
> 
> Here's my solution for a shop-built filp stop, Phil.
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4876404/Action-sequence.gif


Very nice Oliver! Looks rock solid, no rotation of the main boss section? I was considering making one too and the idea I had was to use some scrap "sapeli" sp? and also see what guide grooves on the underside of the boss, matched to the T-track for better locking behavior.

I've already removed the Incra track and now have a std Kreg T-track in place. Now I need to add stock to the front side of the T-track (strip of hardwood). This would mimic the geometry of the Incra multi-track (with graduation) and then I could add some adhesive measuring tape. Sticking with Kreg track system since now I also have their precision miter gauge.

-Roy


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

niswanger said:


> Yes Nick and it does bind up a little firmer, although it's not right because of 1. the flip stop is no longer square to the fence 2. with nominal pressure it will come out of lock and then be really loose.
> 
> -Roy


Gotcha...


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## Inex2028 (Jan 7, 2020)

I know this is years ago but you have a Kreg Swing Stop but not a Kreg Top Trak. The Kreg brand Top Trak doesn't have that kind of play.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

PhilBa said:


> This problem is a symptom of a bigger issue - general interoperability, or more precisely, lack thereof. Some of the Incra stops don't even work on different Incra products (LS fence vs miter gauge). The flip stop on my Incra miter gauge (1000HD) works great but doesn't fit the LS fence. Do those development teams actually talk to each other? I make a lot of stopped dados on my router table and a flip stop would be very useful.
> 
> My experience with various stops has convinced me to just make my own. I use 6/4 stock to make blocks and drill a hole at the right place to go into the T slot. But I'm still pondering how to make a usable flip stop for my LS. The flip stop on my Incra Miter gauge is actually pretty well made and works well on the miter. But, it has an "incremental positioning rack" that makes for 1/32" aligned positions. While that's supposed to be a feature, it's one I find more of a pain to use than not. The whole point of a flip stop is to be able to get the stop out of the way without removing it, not sure the incremental rack adds anything. Because of the rack, it doesn't fit anywhere else.


From my own personal dealings with Incra, they are NOT a costumer oriented company, and I have bought my last product from them. I bought a router lift from them that came to me in a previously opened box with parts missing, as well as some further tell-tale signs I was sent a used product. I contacted their costumer support, and while they did send the missing parts, they refused to let me return what they had sent in favor of getting the new (unopened) product I had paid for, all the while blaming their supplier, and talking down to me. As I said, they will not be getting anymore of my money.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Wow, response to a 4 year old post. Sorry you had a bad experience. I've had nothing but good experiences with their products though the router lift was poorly packaged for shipping. I even had good experience with their customer support.


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

PhilBa said:


> Wow, response to a 4 year old post. Sorry you had a bad experience. I've had nothing but good experiences with their products though the router lift was poorly packaged for shipping. I even had good experience with their customer support.


Interesting thread - FWIW, I've had a great experience with Jessem regarding the Rout-R-Lift II I received. They were helpful on the phone settling questions that prevented me from buy the more expensive, but no more capable, top model. I like that treatment!

Ditto with Sommerfeld and their dovetail jigs - Pat gave me the details I needed to create a custom order and get exactly what I wanted/needed. Good vendors are worth a lot...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Bstrom said:


> Interesting thread - FWIW, I've had a great experience with Jessem regarding the Rout-R-Lift II I received. They were helpful on the phone settling questions that prevented me from buy the more expensive, but no more capable, top model. I like that treatment!
> 
> Ditto with Sommerfeld and their dovetail jigs - Pat gave me the details I needed to create a custom order and get exactly what I wanted/needed. Good vendors are worth a lot...


I've had nothing but great support from Sommerfeld, even talked with Marc a couple of times. They made their new jig and parts compatable with the older Katie jig. And their matched door making sets are superb.

I'm old school on stop blocks. Blocks of MDF clamped in place with small clamps works for me.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> I'm old school on stop blocks. Blocks of MDF clamped in place with small clamps works for me.


I agree with that for the most part though there are a few exceptions. The Incra Miter gauge has a very nice stop that swings up and out of the way but retains the stop position when swung down. Great when cutting lots of pieces to a specific length from several boards as it's easy to alternate between end trimming and cutting to length.

As I recall my original complaint was that specific stop didn't work on other incra fences. -1 to Incra for not having consistency/interoperability among their own products. But, I still like the company and their products.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I bought a longer fence for Kreg's bandsaw fence. The first one was not the straight. They sent me another one no questions asks. Great company.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

It is amazing that there are not standards for everything in woodworking gear. There should at least ALWAYS be inside and outside measurements given for all equipment and accessories.


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