# Need help



## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is a picture of a planter that I spied in my travels. I figured most out. Except the octagon wheels I know the angles are 22 1/2 degrees.
Not sure how to layout the cuts? Any suggestion appreciated.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

be over whelmed...

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/78329-octagon-drawing-help-please.html


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

A wheel is much like a picture frame. All the angles have to be equal and all the sides have to be equal in length. If you can master those two requirements the pieces will mesh perfectly. Sounds easy doesn't it?


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

follow this link this how I do it

How to Draw an Octagon (with Pictures) - wikiHow


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Not so easy. I think my wife would love this. We have a space in the back yard where this would be really charming.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Perfect for going up and down stairs!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Perfect for going up and down stairs!


have you forgotten what elevators are for...


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Laid out one for a game board a few years back. As per John's suggestion I googled "how to draw"and it worked out well. Bought a round cut board from Lowes which made it a bit more difficult.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

To get the desired angle for the wheel, divide 360 by the number of sides. I would most likely get as close as possible and wind up putting in a heavy duty spline, or tongue and groove the connecting points because warping, twists, splits, and other imperfections will make it pretty much impossible to get a perfect joint in construction grade lumber. By using splines, you could round out the wheels so the planter could roll around. Would have to have spokes of some sort to put the wheel on a shaft of steel pipe. Doesn't have to be a fancy construction to make it a movable planter. My wife likes to move stuff around in the garden and clever as this is, it will be heavy and awkward when filled with dirt and plants.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> A wheel is much like a picture frame. All the angles have to be equal and all the sides have to be equal in length. If you can master those two requirements the pieces will mesh perfectly. Sounds easy doesn't it?


If not, then you'll have a mesh on your hands. (a groaner)


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

It seems to me that all you would need is a chop saw set to 22 1/2 deg. Figure out how long the long side will be and cut all the same length.

Outdoor stuff. HMMM...Kreg makes 2 1/2 inch screws that are for outdoor use. You could use them to assemble the wheels. Holes might be distracting though.

Just thinking out loud on a sleepy Saturday morning.
Mike


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

OOPS. 22 1/2 deg is for an octagon, not hexagon as shown in the picture.

I quickly drew it in Sketchup. 12 inches on the long side, 22 1/2 deg would yield an 8 sided wheel 31 23/64th in diameter.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

...all the above...plus whether you want to use screws or mortise/tenon/spline...

Here's a recent thread showing how a wheel is made...just in case you want to get exotic about how to assemble the spokes, center hub, etc...

...and then there's always cut it in pieces and screw it together...(yuch)

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/95817-wooden-wheel-making-wheelwrights.html

Worth the watch...lots of great ideas...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here ya go. Plain and simple. All joints are butt joints. Any additional joinery will have to be taken into account.
I can upload the Sketchup file if you need it.

Hope this helps.

Gotta go. I hear my planer calling me! :grin::grin::grin:


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

*Finishing outside planters*

Just out of curiosity, what would you use to finish/protect an outside planter or garden furniture?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

oil base deep base exterior paint w/o tint......


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Ta Stick, but I meant to leave the wood grain visible as in the original photo of the tractor planter.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I tried decking varnish on my outside bench seat and it flaked off after about 18 months


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

what wood did you use and did you sand it smooth...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> Ta Stick, but I meant to leave the wood grain visible as in the original photo of the tractor planter.


oil base deep base exterior paint w/o tint......
it dries clear...

have the body at the paint counter show you....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> I tried decking varnish on my outside bench seat and it flaked off after about 18 months


what wood did you use and did you sand it smooth...
how many coats and how heavy were the coats...

did you thin the 1st coat a bit???
did you do a searious end grain sealing after you ere done w/ all the finishing..


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Your right the big wheels are hex but the small wheels are octagon. Big wheels I have no problem making. Already made a prototype out of scraps . I think I'm going to cut 2 perfect square pieces draw diagonals on 1, and the other center horizontal and vertical line. Place the pieces on top of each other and drill a whole through both at the intersecting points of horizontal vertical lines put a bolt through and rotate 
the piece until the diagonals form the octagon. measure the sides make sure there the same length.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

roofner said:


> Your right the big wheels are hex but the small wheels are octagon. Big wheels I have no problem making. Already made a prototype out of scraps . I think I'm going to cut 2 perfect square pieces draw diagonals on 1, and the other center horizontal and vertical line. Place the pieces on top of each other and drill a whole through both at the intersecting points of horizontal vertical lines put a bolt through and rotate
> the piece until the diagonals form the octagon. measure the sides make sure there the same length.


My drawing is accurate to 1/64ths inch. :grin:
Just sayin'.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Mike those type no problem other wheels are one piece cut to octagon.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

roofner said:


> Mike those type no problem other wheels are one piece cut to octagon.


OH. I wasn't aware of that.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> what wood did you use and did you sand it smooth...
> how many coats and how heavy were the coats...
> 
> did you thin the 1st coat a bit???
> did you do a searious end grain sealing after you ere done w/ all the finishing..


Not sure what wood it is, it was a store bought bench. The wood is similar looking to mahogany in colour but doubt it is mahogany.

I sanded each slat very smooth all round and used the varnish out of the tin, 2 coats. Maybe should have been thinned and thinner/more coats?

What is a serious end grain sealing? Numerous coats of varnish?

Is there an oil I could use which would impregnate the wood?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> 1... Not sure what wood it is, it was a store bought bench. The wood is similar looking to mahogany in colour but doubt it is mahogany.
> 2... I sanded each slat very smooth all round
> 3... used the varnish out of the tin, 2 coats.
> 4... Maybe should have been thinned and thinner/more coats?
> ...


1... let's hazard a guess and say it's a Lauan...

Sometimes referred to as “Lauan,” wood in the Shorea genus is very commonly used in southeast Asia, and there is an abundance of variety between the difference species: each with different working properties, appearances, and mechanical strength values.

The five main groupings for Meranti (Lauan) are: Light Red Meranti, Dark Red Meranti, White Meranti, Yellow Meranti, and Balau. The strength and mechanical values listed at the top of this page represent the average of a handful of species within the corresponding group.

Also called Philippine Mahogany, Meranti bears no relation to what is considered to be “true” mahogany in the Swietenia and Khaya genera.
should be considered as non-durable in regard to decay resistance, and is also susceptible to insect attack.....

2... yousand too smooth you close the pores/grain/fibers and it blocks the absorption of your finish..
Sand the wood to 80/100 to start being careful to ''go w/ the grain..
if you want smooth you sand to your happiness progressively finer between coats of finish and not at the initial sanding...

3... you did okay but I believe there better plans...

4... thin by 10-15% for the 1st application... *ONCE...*
thin coats there after... sand between coats...
the more the merrier

5... thin a little of your varnish by 25% in a separate container and dip the end grain into and let the thinned varnish ''wick up into the wood fibers... *ONCE...*
15-20 minuets is usually enough longer is good as log as the varnish doesn't begin to ''gel''...
when your piece is completely finished wax wil be to your benefit...

as wood naturally moves the pores/grain/fibers tend to open and close..
end grain lends to stay/remain more open than face grain..
it's through the end grain you get the most MC changes...
MC released continuously and you get those infamous ''checks''...
MC adsorbed continuously and it affects/breaks down the bond between the finish and the wood...
now do this for a wide range of cycles..
depending on the pore openness MC will change dramatically the length of the wood when it is used out of doors...
work at keeping it stable...
Rain, dew, sun, cloudy or sunny days, high/low humidity and even direct contact w/ masonry can radically effect/affect MC...

6... yes... thin coats... pay attention to the manufacturer's recommendation for allotted time and tackiness between coats.. 

7... use oil base finish to start...

look to oil based deep base...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> Not sure what wood it is, it was a store bought bench. The wood is similar looking to mahogany in colour but doubt it is mahogany.
> 
> I sanded each slat very smooth all round and used the varnish out of the tin, 2 coats. Maybe should have been thinned and thinner/more coats?
> 
> ...


A bit more...

Paint On A Clear Finish


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

We just used a redwood stain years ago. and add more when it started to bleach out a every couple of years. Doesn't peel, takes the weather. I have never seen any clear finish on wood hold up to weather with out peeling and then you have a major refinishing job. It has to be stripped down to the bare wood and the wood is usually turning black at the blister so has to be sanded down to new wood etc. 

Herb


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I made my first parts for this project the octagon front wheels for the tractor and the wheels for the cart are made. No pictures yet maybe tomorrow or not until Friday. It is easy after I found this web sight that told me that if you have perfect square. Draw the diagonals and where they intersect this is the radius make a story stick that length . Now put the stick edge even with the end and make a mark at other end. Do this for all corners . Then draw a line connect the dot with the adjacent sides. Your diagonal line should intersect the center of your connect the dots. cut those comers off and you have your octagon . The cart wheel was a 11 inch square. The tractor front tire is a 9 inch square.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I am appreciative for the help I received on my tractor and cart project. Here is the beginning of the build I have 3 picture . The first is the picture that gave me the inspiration for the project. The second is the basic frame for the cart with one of the wheels clamped where it will be mounted . The third picture is planter box assembly the occupies what I call the tractor seat in first picture .Would the moderator like to move this post to a new build or continue on here ?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you are good..
and quick too...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I am appreciative for the help I received on my tractor and cart project. Here is the beginning of the build I have 3 picture . The first is the picture that gave me the inspiration for the project. The second is the basic frame for the cart with one of the wheels clamped where it will be mounted . The third picture is planter box assembly the occupies what I call the tractor seat in first picture .Would the moderator like to move this post to a new build or continue on here ?

This is related to the original post so I'm fine with it here if you are.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

*continue build*



roofner said:


> I am appreciative for the help I received on my tractor and cart project. Here is the beginning of the build I have 3 picture . The first is the picture that gave me the inspiration for the project. The second is the basic frame for the cart with one of the wheels clamped where it will be mounted . The third picture is planter box assembly the occupies what I call the tractor seat in first picture .Would the moderator like to move this post to a new build or continue on here ?


Here are the tractor wheels need to cut two 4 inch circles to go on for hubs. I planed on this to come on prior post pictures but did do it right.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is a general idea how wheels will mount to seat flower box.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Wagon is almost done have the last wheel clamped in place to mark to predrill holes for mounting wheel. Then sand a little and put final coats of finish .


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is the cart fully assembled needs some finish sanding and 1 or 2 more coats of finish. As you can see my improvement to design idea is to use plastic flower boxes to make it easier to get ready every year with new plants . The wood should last longer and makes the project lighter but still strong.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

excellent finale..
don't forget your drain holes in the wood boxes under the plastic trays..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice project. I haven't shown my wife yet because it will go immediately to the top of the honey do list.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is a dry fit of tractor frame.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

You know what I have found at Walmart for outdoor clear finish is Teak and Deck Tung Oil with UV inhibiters. I have put it on a few things and it looks nice. I don't have enough time on it to know for sure how long it will last. I have used spar varnish and it peels after 3 years.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

small block should fit...
looking good...


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

*Finished project*

Thanks for the help with this projects. Here is finished project ready to plant. I had a lot of set backs with this projects. My wife has been fighting cancer she was in and out of the hospital 3 times for the last month. Prognosis is good she has had 2 chemo session and Monday will be last course of first of six. Not much wood working for another 5 months when my wife's treatments are done. I will follow forum .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sorry to hear this about your wife...
we're pulling for you and yours...

your planter came out really great...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear...hope all goes well with the treatments. I'm sure she loves the planter...came out really nice...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Hope all goes well for her Gary. Sending positive thoughts your way.

The planter looks great.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Gary,

Tell her to keep fighting. My wife had it twice and it's been 16 years since the first one. That's when I realized that I reallly liked having her around. The key is early detection. Good Luck!

HJ

Planter came out good


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Here is the project complete.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

..


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

If my mother-in-law sees that --------- I'm in deep dodo -- and that means your a** is grass!!!!!!

Looks great. Any chance you're selling all the precut parts and instructional assembly video?? 

Figured it was worth a try anyway!!

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> If my mother-in-law sees that --------- I'm in deep dodo -- and that means your a** is grass!!!!!!
> 
> Looks great. Any chance you're selling all the precut parts and instructional assembly video??
> 
> ...


teach her wood working...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

She's a master with kitchen stuff, sewing stuff, and ceramic stuff. To her, nails go on the end of fingers. Wouldn't trust her with any tool that had a sharp blade or teeth, hand or power.

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

my wife was a lot different...
and she liked buying tools more than I do...

WOW!!
I really like this 14'' band saw.. 
16 and 20'' Italian made Lagunas show up and so on...


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