# Newbie choosing between Bosch 1617evs and mrf23evs



## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

So, working on my first set of cabinets and wife is encouraging me to buy a router. I convinced her that a full size router (rather than the Bosch colt which is $100) fits the bill better as I'll need to cut a 3/4" dado as part of the project (among other things) anyway, to make a short story long, I've decided to buy a reconditioned Bosch. I can get the 1617evs for $121 and the mr23 for $139. Mostly I want something that will hold up well because if it fails after 3 years of light use I will be very disappointed. I know th 1617 has a good track record, but the mr23 is a much more expensive tool, which I'm assuming means it's better. There is no router table in my foreseeable future, and I figure I'll upgrade to a plunge base if I need to at a later date. I'm trying to decide which would be easier to use and in the long run be the better choice. Also trying to determine if the mr23 is worth the extra money. Looking for opinions from those with a little more experience.


Thanks for reading and providing any feedback! Based on what I've read on other posts this seems like a great place to come for advice


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi, Michael; welcome aboard!
Hey, you picked Bosch, what could go wrong. LOL
Personally I have the 1617EVS...I should have sprung for the EVSPK package but I already had the 1619EVS which _is_ a plunge base and I figured I didn't really need two plunges.
Well the 1617 is a lot lighter and easy to use so now it's the go-to router, hence my wishing I'd bought the plunge base as well. 
Do yourself a favour and also buy the Deluxe Router Edge guide (RA1054 )
https://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-RA1054-...8&qid=1468559578&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+ra1054
That's a Canadian site and pricing...it'll be less expensive in the US
I use my edge guide a LOT.
The 1617 has a through the base adjustment for bit depth (height) so it's a nice feature for table mounted routing, or so the members tell us. I'm still stuck doing handheld work.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Did I mention that you need the plunge base? Yes, I believe I did. 
*You need the plunge base as well as the fixed base*. Cheaper now than as an afterthought ...voice of experience here.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Michael Brune said:


> So, working on my first set of cabinets and wife is encouraging me to buy a router. I convinced her that a full size router (rather than the Bosch colt which is $100) fits the bill better as I'll need to cut a 3/4" dado as part of the project (among other things) anyway, to make a short story long, I've decided to buy a reconditioned Bosch. I can get the 1617evs for $121 and the mr23 for $139. *Mostly I want something that will hold up well because if it fails after 3 years of light use I will be very disappointed. * I know th 1617 has a good track record, but the mr23 is a much more expensive tool, which I'm assuming means it's better. There is no router table in my foreseeable future, and I figure I'll upgrade to a plunge base if I need to at a later date. I'm trying to decide which would be easier to use and in the long run be the better choice. Also trying to determine if the mr23 is worth the extra money. Looking for opinions from those with a little more experience.
> 
> 
> Thanks for reading and providing any feedback! Based on what I've read on other posts this seems like a great place to come for advice


Hello Michael and welcome to the forums..
Bosch.... great choice...
as for the 17 over the 23 it's a matter of comfort...
the 17 is lighter and easier to use IMO.....
what ever you do think long range and spring for the EVSPK package... you will not regret it... 
like Dan said.. do yourself a favor and also get the Deluxe Router Edge guide (RA1054 )

how about decades of heavy use and no worries...
add the colt at a later date...


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Michael you have a great wife. She is actually recommending you buy a tool. Hmmm! You better hold on to that lady. Pleasedon't let her see this post. It will go straight to her head. :laugh2: I can't add any advice about your question on routers. The above post have said it all.

PS- Welcome to the forum.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Welcome to the forum Michael. I have a pair of 1617 EVSPK, fixed bases mounted in table, plunge for hand-held. The reason the plunge is favored is that plunge base can function like it was fixed and still plunge to start a cut in the middle of a work piece. Fixed base cannot function as a plunge base. I've not used a MR23, so no opinion between the two--but count me as a member of the plunge base club!! 

(oh, and if you have to buy a second base later--easier & cheaper to pick up a fixed base in the used market. Still not cheaper than picking up the kit to start with.)

earl


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Welcome to the forum, Michael.

Great choice on the Bosch...listen to what everyone is saying...buy the kit. It will be cheaper in the long run than trying to add the plunge base later. Fixed based routers are a good tools, an additional plunge base makes them a great, and much more versatile, tool.

Again, welcome.

Bill


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

It is safe to say the majority of folks here have regretted downgrading initial tool purchases. i.e. buying economy I am not talking about buying junk. I am speaking to your quandary Buying the base model instead of the kit from a quality tool manufacturer. We have all bought "extra's" that are still collecting dust. For me the "D" handle base of my dewalt kit is a good example. It collected dust for 10 years. Till last month when I needed a fixed base for using my dovetail jig. The kit came with 3 bases. Fixed with knob, fixed with "d" handle and plunge The knob handled base has a milescraft plate so I used the D handle for the first time. I really appreciated its value. It handles better in some situations. That base went from regret to appreciation. My point is My lack of knowledge made the "d handle" collect dust not that it was an unnecessary extra. 
Finally I think building cabinets without a table is very difficult. DIY tables like the "oak park" can be made cheaply. A kit purchase will allow you to leave one base permanently mounted in your table. So welcome to the forum.


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

Thanks for replying, and yes the wife is awesome, though her telling me to buy anything is rare so I'm jumping on this. So what I'm getting is that I should buy the plunge base &#55357;&#56836;, I will definitely be checking prices on those today. It also sounds like the 17 might be easier to handle than the 23. One thing I found attractive about the 23 was the micro adjustment knob on the housing, is this really a non-issue that I need not be concerned about?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Michael Brune said:


> Thanks for replying, and yes the wife is awesome, though her telling me to buy anything is rare so I'm jumping on this. So what I'm getting is that I should buy the plunge base ��, I will definitely be checking prices on those today. It also sounds like the 17 might be easier to handle than the 23. One thing I found attractive about the 23 was the micro adjustment knob on the housing, is this really a non-issue that I need not be concerned about?


the 17 has micro adjusting...
you may qualify for free shipping....

Factory Reconditioned Bosch 1617EVSPK-RT 12 Amp 2.25 HP Combination Plunge and Fixed-Base Router Kit


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

You're right! It does, I hadn't noticed because I was looking at the fixed base model only. The kit is pricier than what I intended to spend (starting at $100 expectation from the Misses) I also noticed that if I get the mr23 for around 130 if I can get the plunge base for around $100 it's cheaper to buy separately as the reconditioned kit is $250. From the sounds of it many of you have bypassed the kit only to regret it later, so I should learn from your experience, but if I can spread the cost out without incurring a huge price penalty I'll keep the wife happy and hopefully get more encouragement to buy tools down the road.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

1617 EVSPK kit plus the edge guide. You'll love both. I particularly like the light weight and low profile of the fixed base, which you can also use under a table. Do check out the threads on this Forum on building your own table. Costs very little to make one that works well and it will make cabinetry easier. Welcome to the Forum. Best place for woodworking advice on the net.


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

I'm already thinking of what building a table would take. Wouldn't you know it that all those options become irresistible once I start down the road. The edge guide sure is tempting too as it would make a lot of projects easier.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Michael; re the DELUXE edge guide (RA1054) ...
It allows you to do edges without bearing guided bits. Cut dados at a precise distance in from an edge (parallel to the edge obviously). With a 35mm straight bit, you can drill the recess holes for Euro hinges, accurately spaced in from the edge...but you need the plunge base for that. Cut rebates accurately; just a whole bunch of uses! 
Re the table; a career carpenter buddy has a plywood box with a router hanging off it, and a straight piece of wood with two clamps. That's it. He's been using that for donkey's years. Everything else is an upgrade/option.


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Michael; re the DELUXE edge guide (RA1054) ...
> 
> Re the table; a career carpenter buddy has a plywood box with a router hanging off it, and a straight piece of wood with two clamps. That's it. He's been using that for donkey's years. Everything else is an upgrade/option.


Sounds like something I would make . As for the edge guide, you can consider me sold! You point out its uses very well and I'm now thinking that it would quickly become something I can't live without. Thanks for the info.:grin:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, let You Tube be your friend!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Yes Mike you will need a plunge base, probably sooner than you think. There are some jobs that cannot be done safely or accurately without one. Any job where you don't start or stop at an edge requires one such as stopped grooves, mortices, or hogging out waste on something like a bowl.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Michael Brune said:


> Sounds like something I would make . As for the edge guide, you can consider me sold! You point out its uses very well and I'm now thinking that it would quickly become something I can't live without. Thanks for the info.:grin:


Re: re the table: My dime's worth. I have the 1617 EVSPK kit. Got it some years ago. I was always going to build a "proper table" some day. That day hasn't come yet cause I continue to use my hurry up plywood box with two clamps, a straight board, a removable top and a fixed base. I swear I'll have a nice table some day even if it's just to say I have a nice table. To date, the box and board get me to where I'm going and the table hasn't moved up my "to do" list. I have several pieces of Bosch and enjoy all of them. The few times I had questions or thought I needed them, they were always there. Good Customer Service.


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## Dan3103 (Feb 12, 2014)

I have a 1617 EVSPK. I often wish I would have gone with the 23. For routing by hand, the 23 offers the trigger on the handle; take your hand off the handle, the router stops. The 1617 requires you to switch it off with one hand while holding the spinning router in the other. In an emergency, that can be a bit iffy. 

I also have a different brand of router with a built in light. I like that feature a lot. Had I realized that the 1617 does NOT have a light, I would have purchased the 23, even though it was more expensive. 

I have my 1617 and the fixed base mounted on my portable table, so those two features (light and trigger in handle) are not required. It's a nice router, but for hand router use, I use a different router.

JMHO, mind you. Have fun in your selection!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Welcome aboard. I'm a bit different from the rest of them here. I've got five of probably the least expensive Craftsman routers available, all around $50-60 each. The newest one is somewhere around 10-15 years old. They all run, except one and that one just needs a wire resoldered to run. For what I want them for, they are only used in a homemade table, somewhere between 15-20 years old, and they do just what I want. Oh yes, they're all 1/4" shank. 
:lol:


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Nearly a case of paralytic analysis.
Both PK's are very good. Moreover, for the price of one good cutter (additional),
you could buy new.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Welcome to the forum !


Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum Michael


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

Dan3103 said:


> I have a 1617 EVSPK. For routing by hand, the 23 offers the trigger on the handle; take your hand off the handle, the router stops. The 1617 requires you to switch it off with one hand while holding the spinning router in the other. In an emergency, that can be a bit iffy.
> 
> I also have a different brand of router with a built in light. I like that feature a lot. Had I realized that the 1617 does NOT have a light, I would have purchased the 23, even though it was more expensive.


Dan that's exactly what sold me on the 23. And yes, I am guilty of paralytic analysis, seems one of my weaknesses, though I will say that when I finally make my decision I'm generally happy with it and don't spend much time what iffing. 

Thanks for all the help and feedback. I pulled the trigger on the mr23 reconditioned as I thought the price was too good to beat ($125). I'm going to buy the plunge base on Amazon for $99 and still come in cheaper than buying the kit all at once and far cheaper than new. I'm also getting the guide as I think it's going to be extremely useful for making my cabinets. Thanks again for all the input. Any recommendations for some inexpensive bits that I can start out with. I like to get quality stuff but have just burned all my cash on the router and accessories. Any brands to swear by. I'm sure that's a huge can of worms also probably the topic of another thread. I'll peruse. Thanks again! :grin:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

There are many brands of bits that are good. For general purpose use, Freud are pretty easy to get at HD or Lowes, and they work just fine. There are folks here who prefer CMT, Amana, Whiteside bits so there are lots of choices.

For dados, a down-cut spiral solid carbide bit is probably best, but it is fairly fragile and easily damaged. High Speed Steel (HSS) works well for light users. Make sure you have some sort of dust collection because sawdust builds up heat and even resin on the bit. You will need some sort of guide, a jig to keep dados the correct width for a tight fit, and you can find them by looking up Router Dado Jig on YouTube.

For Rabbits, you'll use the edge guide or the table and a Rabbiting bit with a bearing on it. You can buy this in several depths of cut. If you cut rabbits on the a table, the location of the fence determines the exact width of the rabbit. 

Others will be along shortly with their preferences. For cabinetry, get half inch shanks. One thing you will almost certainly use are round over bits to round over the edges of your materials. A quarter inch is kind of the minimum basic of this type of bit.
@Stick486 will hopefully come along with his pdfs on router use, which are great. The direction of cut relative to wood grain is important, and his material will show you the details. 

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Michael Brune....
Tom made me do it...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

more....

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

a few more....

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

not done yet....

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

if you can stand a few more....

.


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

Tons of great info guys, thanks for that. I haven't made it through all the videos yet but it's just what I needed as a true novice to woodworking. I can't wait for the router to get here so I can see what I can do. I never really considered which way to cut with the grain in woodworking projects, some good advice there. As far as the vacuum hood, I have the edge guide coming which has an attachment, but other than that I'm not set. I think I'll have to build bits over time to space out the costs, but I'm excited to have a multitude for many tasks. Seriously. Tons of great info. Thanks so much!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick's item on splines: I LOVE splines. They work so well for joining, adding strength to mitered corners, such as picture frames, for making boxes adding strength and as a design element. If you cut a groove for spline on the table, with the face side down, your tops will align near perfectly and require only a bit of sanding or planing. This is a good approach for turning several narrow boards into a wide one.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

face side up will get the joints even closer...


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

Stick, I started reading the PDFs, there is a lot to learn, but the information on cut direction was very logical. Tom, thank you for the bit info, and the run down on dados and rabbiting, not sure I understand completely, but I think I will soon. Same goes for splines, I think I'll have to spend some time on YouTube to help me visualize. Anyway, I'm impressed by the knowledge here and the willingness to help. Thank you!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Michael Brune...

what is it that you are having difficulty w/....


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

I think it's just an issue of having not done any cutting yet. For instance tom indicated that on a table the positioning of the fence will change the width of the rabbit. I'm assuming that means up to the cutting depth of the rabbit and is an indication that on a table you don't use the bearing because it's unneccesary, but I'm not sure. With regard to splines, I'm not sure why it would make a difference to have face side up or down, though as I think about it more I start to guess that it's due to the variability in wood thickness. In which case I would think on a table you would want face side down, and off the table you'd do it face side up. Without having done any of it though I'm not super confident that I'm getting it correctly.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Michael Brune I think you are wise to watch a lot of videos on YouTube. That will really help you to build a visualization "library" that you can use to figure things out. Also, there is a vocabulary to woodworking that will take a little time to learn. But if you have a visualization already, you can produce the result whether you know the right words or not. 

For the router, you can't beat books by Bill Hylton books on the router. One of the things that really helped me was watching videos of Mark Sommerfeld (on youtube and for sale on DVDs from sommerfeldtools.com. For some reason, there is a clarity about all the techniques he uses and demonstrates that really works for me. I keep the DVDs around and watch the appropriate one(s) when I about you try doing something for the first time. I own a number of his door making sets, which have matched heights so when you set up the first, the rest are automatically correct. But door making is further down the line.

Another thing you might find really helpful is the Kreg Pocket Hole jig and system. It makes certain things easier to do, like face frames, the inch and a half wide surrounding attached to the front of a cabinet, book case or even a tool stand. 

One other thing that has turned out to have saved my bacon on many projects is a little hand plane called a block plane. Often times when I have to fit a piece within a case, I would cut it too short. Cutting inside pieces accurately was a stopper for me for a year or so. Just couldn't seem to do it right using a saw. Now I cut it slightly long and use that little block plane to trim the end to an exact fit. And, you'll learn about sharpening stuff with sandpaper of various grits because just sharp isn't good enough for planes and chisels. 

I'm saying this to urge you to just keep at it, you'll get better and better over time. The guys and gals here have your back.


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## Michael Brune (Jul 15, 2016)

Great advice, I see a block plane in my future for starters. I did start cutting, loving the router, works fluidly through the wood. Directional diagrams definitely helped here as I was able to go the correct direction and place my fence correctly which I could have easily fouled. I'll also be looking for Mark Sommerfield on you tube. Thanks for the encouragement and the sound advice.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Don't be a stranger, Michael!


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, Michael.

Maybe you are a rookie at cabinetry but not selecting highly ranked power tools. 

BTW, your wife is a good adviser, too!!!


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## firefly7 (3 mo ago)

Stick486 said:


> a few more....
> 
> .


Where can I download these? All the links seem inoperable.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

firefly7 said:


> Where can I download these? All the links seem inoperable.


Not surprising; the thread is about 6 years old.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @firefly7


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Firefly, Those pdfs disappeared some time ago, but I saved them and will attach them over the next 3 posts so you can download and read them. Miss Stick, but at least we have the PDFs now.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Next set of router pdfs....


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Final set of pdfs...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

firefly7 said:


> Where can I download these? All the links seem inoperable.


Should have replied first like this. The previous three posts contain all of Stick's pdfs, plus a few more I've collected. You can buy used woodworking books that contain a lot of this information, but the pdfs cover it all in smaller, bite sized chunks..

Attached is a 10 page pdf of the 18 Plus things that helped me accelerate my learning curve. It has lots of pictures, and note that you don't have to do it all at once, this covers about 7 years. I was in my peak earning years so I was able to indulge.


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## firefly7 (3 mo ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> Hi Firefly, Those pdfs disappeared some time ago, but I saved them and will attach them over the next 3 posts so you can download and read them. Miss Stick, but at least we have the PDFs now.


Wow, thanks so much, Tom! Super-appreciative for re-posting these for me. So glad you still have them


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum @firefly7


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Tom.

I believe I have all Harry's posts, but will download, just to be safe...


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