# Can a Router Do This?



## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

Hello, I am completely new at woodworking. I found this Forum while searching the Internet for information about routing. 
I want to make a Tambour Mantle Clock out of one solid piece of Cherry, no small pieces, no glue, no veneer. 
I want to ask you experts if this project is an application for Routing. Or maybe there is some other way to carve/cut some kind of Roman Ogee on three sides of the base of this big piece of wood. It will be 24 inches by 12 inches by 6 inches. 

Please see two attachments of the big piece of Cherry and a drawing of the Roman Ogee. This Ogee design is not exact, I would like to carve something similar. 

And this drawing is not to scale, but the wood removal will be about 1.5 to 2 inches in height and depth. 

The dashed lines in blue is what the piece will look like before carving. 

Is this possible with a router? If it is possible, I know it will require many passes and many setups of different bits. 

What kind of router and bits can do this? I have not router yet. 

Thanks.


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## PetersCreek (Mar 13, 2012)

I could see this being done with a combination of straight and flat-bottom roundover bits but depending on the bit and router, depth could be a problem...but I'm not the expert some folks on this forum are. I look forward to the answers.


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks PetersCreek, I looked up flat-bottom roundover bits. I just don't understand which direction the router must come from to make this work. 

I cannot visualize it coming from the bottom and making the Roman Ogee cuts in the correct direction as in the attached drawing. 

And I cannot visualize it coming from the top unless the router shank is 12 inches long. Is there any such thing?


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## PetersCreek (Mar 13, 2012)

The only way I can see of doing this is to mill it with the router base sitting on the face of the blank. With the depth your working to, you might have to use a collet extension. I've never used one myself, so others with that experience would be have to chime in.

Another option—if you want to go old school on it—would be to acquire a couple of molding planes and work it by hand.


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## PetersCreek (Mar 13, 2012)

StephenRay said:


> I cannot visualize it coming from the bottom and making the Roman Ogee cuts in the correct direction as in the attached drawing.


I forgot to mention that the profile you drew isn't the sort of roman ogee I'm used to seeing since it doesn't include a cove profile...just flats and roundovers/beads. If you intended to use a roman ogee bit and that's the source of your concern about milling direction, why don't you cut the profile with a combination of bits? That would you give you control over its orientation.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Brett

Rough out with straight cutters (3 or 4 cuts), but don't hog away the majority of the waste, only where you need to machine the profiles - the remaining waste can be hogged away later on and will support the piece in the cuts. Make the three profile cuts with a bnon-bnearing radius cutter like these, next two cuts with similar cutter. Then hog away the rest of the waste leaving a small support "ring" at the very top until last. Cut away the ring by hand and clean-up with a sharp block plane. You'll need a 1/2in router, router table, collet extender and a squaring piece (to guide the cut) as well as a router cutter

Regards

Phil


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi Stephen; from the replies so far it sounds like the router is being asked to reduce all the waste down to the profile. I see it as essentially the same operation as making an elaborate crown mould. think of the base portion as a piece of flat stock laying on its back with the profile drawn on the end section...the tallest profile determining the actual thickness. Now everything that's not profile is waste. remove it with your bench plane down to the profile, but in a flat plane. Now all you're faced with is the actual profiling. In fact, following from the above, everything down to a line drawn across the _two highest points_ is waste and can be hand planed off. It's only two feet long; maybe a 20 minute job?


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks Phil P, Very interesting. But the cuts still seem like they are going the wrong way. I am going to go draw another picture. 

PetersCreek, Yes, I just learned an ogee is like an S curve, I just drew beads. More Later, after I draw another picture. I know I will have to use a series of bits.


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

*Another PIC*

I attached another drawing to show my understanding of what THE IDEAL bit would need to look like. ROFL! 

Where am I going wrong? 

Phil, I also cut out and pasted a picture of a bit that you recommended. It looks all wrong to me. 

Which bit would do the job? 

Of course, I would expect to make several passes with several kinds of bits that would each take out some. 

Thanks, - Steve from Kansas


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

StephenRay said:


> I attached another drawing to show my understanding of what THE IDEAL bit would need to look like. ROFL!
> 
> Where am I going wrong?
> 
> ...


Rotate your thinking a little and standard profiles can do the job. (see photo). Still will require some finesse to set everything up to rout safely.


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Hi Stephen; from the replies so far it sounds like the router is being asked to reduce all the waste down to the profile. I see it as essentially the same operation as making an elaborate crown mould. think of the base portion as a piece of flat stock laying on its back with the profile drawn on the end section...the tallest profile determining the actual thickness. Now everything that's not profile is waste. remove it with your bench plane down to the profile, but in a flat plane. Now all you're faced with is the actual profiling. In fact, following from the above, everything down to a line drawn across the _two highest points_ is waste and can be hand planed off. It's only two feet long; maybe a 20 minute job?


Thanks for your reply DaninVan, I have never routed before and it makes sense to plane it down to the profile first. Yes it is two feet long, plus two sides, 6 inches each. 

I am encouraged if you think this is possible.


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## damnitboy (Mar 3, 2012)

Howdy Stephan,

I have to do many irregular projects on the houses I build. I have tooled up with a profile grinder, metal lathe and milling machine w/a super spacer to make my own custom shaper cutters, moulding knives and router bits. It is easy enough to just draw out the router bit you want and have it made. Many tool shops make them (do a google search for "custom router bits") you should be looking between 150.00 to 200.00 dollars. But utilize the custom tooling shops and there is nothing you can't do.

-Eloy


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

damnitboy said:


> Howdy Stephan,
> 
> I have to do many irregular projects on the houses I build. I have tooled up with a profile grinder, metal lathe and milling machine w/a super spacer to make my own custom shaper cutters, moulding knives and router bits. It is easy enough to just draw out the router bit you want and have it made. Many tool shops make them (do a google search for "custom router bits") you should be looking between 150.00 to 200.00 dollars. But utilize the custom tooling shops and there is nothing you can't do.
> 
> -Eloy


Thanks for your reply damnitboy, I was wondering if this was possible and the cost. I will keep "custom router bits" in mind. Tool shops that make carbide bits surely must use some kind of diamond tools to sharpen carbide.


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

Gaffboat said:


> Rotate your thinking a little and standard profiles can do the job. (see photo). Still will require some finesse to set everything up to rout safely.


Gaffboat, The lightbulb just came on inside my head, thanks! :happy: Thank you for taking the time to make that drawing. I see how it can work now if the wood piece is turned on its side. 

Yes, The bottom of the wood piece must rest against the fence. Then, standard profile bits will work. 

I can see now I can make nearly any profile if I choose bits wisely. 

But I will need a sturdy table with a sturdy fence because this is a heavy piece of wood that I will be pressing against the fence to keep it square as the router is working. 

I was starting to consider "Scratch Stock" because I did not think this project was possible with a router. I knew that carpenters had to do it by hand somehow before power tools. Well, it was interesting to do the research about Scratch Stock. I found some interesting videos about it on the Internet.


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## friendly1too (Sep 25, 2004)

*use skis*

I'm thinking that this might be a job that calls for the use of skis. The work piece could be held with its back on a work surface and the profiles could be machined from above with a great deal of accuracy because the router would be held by the parallel skis. All that waste could be cut away prior to machining on a band saw, or even by hand if necessary, leaving the area to be machined. If the cutting is done carefully, it would even be possible to use piloted bits.


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## StephenRay (Jun 21, 2012)

friendly1too said:


> I'm thinking that this might be a job that calls for the use of skis. The work piece could be held with its back on a work surface and the profiles could be machined from above with a great deal of accuracy because the router would be held by the parallel skis. All that waste could be cut away prior to machining on a band saw, or even by hand if necessary, leaving the area to be machined. If the cutting is done carefully, it would even be possible to use piloted bits.


Friendly1too, Thanks for your reply, I am afraid I don't know what skis are. But I am going to go look it up. What would a set up like this cost?


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

StephenRay said:


> But I will need a sturdy table with a sturdy fence because this is a heavy piece of wood that I will be pressing against the fence to keep it square as the router is working.


Stephen, just leave some material to support the piece flat on the table while you cut the profiles. Then, when the profile work has been completed remove it. (See the new drawing.)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

How about this? (reminds me of the how many notes game)

One cut (bandsaw resaw or table saw) for upper verticle profile... reattach or leave a section of it temporarily for supporting work while you make the other cuts. One create the upper boundary of the profile.

One extended dado cut (router or table saw) gets it to a short corner round or roundover cut (router or shaper) on the upper part of the profile. depending on the side depth and length of the land, of that land and it might require an extension.

One 45 degree cut (router or table saw) sets up the lower profile. Shaper or router cut on lower... Shaper cutter, no problem. Router bits... Modified corner-round or roundover bit see comment below).

The bit everone has been showing you, that I mentioned above- is the profile you need. That is, if you bought another bit to modify yourself. Take the bearing off the top and grind down the bearing post so it's not there. That will not weaken the bit. It will give you the ability to get in there where you need to to create that profile. The lower part of the profile is 2 separate passes.

So yes. 3-4 saw cuts, dado cut, 3 more router cuts. I think the sawing would take you longer than the actual routing.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Gaffboat said:


> Stephen, just leave some material to support the piece flat on the table while you cut the profiles. Then, when the profile work has been completed remove it. (See the new drawing.)


Hi Oliver

Thanks for taking the time to put those thoughts into a drawing (didn't have the time myself this afternoon) - that's exactly how I envisioned it.

Stephen

The job really requires the use of a router table which can be as simple as a piece of plywood with the router screwed beneath with a hole for the cutter to poke through and a piece od 2 x 2 softwood as the fence. To guide the work, which needs to be passed across the router table _sideways_ you'll need a "squaring block" - this can be a corner off a sheet of MDF or plywood and is run against the router table fence to push the workpiece across the cutter

Regards

Phil


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## MoJo (Jan 1, 2010)

Hi Stephen
This Youtube link will give you some idea on making your own detail it is not what you are making but it will give you some idea of how to make your own I hope it helps you
Regards
MoJo


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## damnitboy (Mar 3, 2012)

Howdy again Stephan
Woodhaven.com has a ski setup that works quite well. From 179.00 to 256.00 depending on size. For the rails I use the woodhaven 96" rails about 96.00 each. I have made provisions for fast set up on my 4 x 8 assymbly table that I installed the Kreg Track Clambing system all the way around and 2 in the middle. You can set it up in about 5 minutes. 
Planing Sled : Router : Woodhaven
-Eloy


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

I have read these posts with one thought in mind, why keep wood as one block? Why not cut off the 1 1/4" x 12" front. Make some reference marks so it can be rejoined later if grain matching is necessary. Then from the removed piece, mill the molding piece you want and then glue back to the main block.

Perhaps a safer way would be to cut off the bottom 2" before reducing the depth of the body. Then mill profile on the bottom 6x2" and then reapply. 

Stephen, good name and spelled right! (yeah, mine too!)


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## friendly1too (Sep 25, 2004)

*skis*

materials for these are very cheap. There's a link to a thread on this site.
It's under jigs and fixtures, a beginner's guide to making router skis.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

StephenRay said:


> I want to make a Tambour Mantle Clock out of one solid piece of Cherry, no small pieces, no glue, no veneer.


Ah, wait one... This is the design of a basic Tambour Mantle Clock:








Whereas, The basic design of a Mantle Clock is (this style allows being taller like your raw stock...)








Notice the tooling on both is 3 sided where you suggest just the front... These are just basic examples. They can get very much more ornate and decorative.

And your goal is to make it in one piece... Where the classical construction of both of these is using thin plywoods, veneers and different trims to get the profile details. The skill in doing it this way is in making it "look" like it was from one piece. 

Actually do it from one piece? Ambitious. The skill is in the transition in tooling and profiles. It's still easy and do-able. Surely more a show of craftsmanship than putting it together from pieces. 

Members here have suggested many different ways to do the same thing. All methods I read above will get you there- meaning all those methods are right and would get to the same result. I could think of a dozen more, but that would really muddy this further.

But for you, as being new to woodworking and not having tools yet? I guess the first thing is to get your hands wet. Maybe get a router or router table, work with the equipment itself with cheap scrap wood to build up your personal skills, techniques and confidence... Cheaper to learn on pine until you're ready, than to mess up that fine piece of cherry. I still try things on scrap wood until I can get a profile how I want it and then can get back to that setup quickly. Then once you do that, evaluate the methods above to see which those methods fits "you," your tools and your skillset best.

Being new to this, some of the above might sound alien. Working with the tools, reading threads here, asking questions here... All of a sudden (Pop), it may make sense. As you can tell from the many responses to your question, these people here are very willing to answer anyone's question.


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