# Need help choosing fence, hoping for input



## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Longtime lurker here with a request for help. 

I recently purchased a Rockler ProMaxRT Cast-Iron router top (stand-alone version) along with an Incra Master Lift II-R and a Porter Cable 7518 in the hopes I could use and enjoy this package well into my retirement. My current project will be our kitchen re-do and I'd like to be able to reliably and safely produce rail/stile doors with raised panels, which I guess is one of my biggest concerns about getting a sturdy, precise fence.

But I'm finding I'm kind of limited in the choice of fence I can use with this top. Some fences offer incredibly accurate adjustments, but I can't find one that fits this top. 

Anyone out there have any suggestions that could offer some insight? I feel like if I'm in this deep already I don't want to be limited by the fence. Should I choose a different top so I could choose from more fences? I chose the cast iron top because my shop area is not A/C and I live in coastal SE Florida. Humidity would kill MDF in no time, and I've read here that the 7518 would cause sagging long-term in most tops.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Poplar; this is the one that pops up when you Google your top...
Bench Dog® Router Table Pro Fence 32" | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

DaninVan, Yes, thank you that seems like the only choice available to me. I tried woodpeckers, along with others and seem to be striking out. 

Has anyone used this top in conjunction with a top quality fence system, say the Incra LS or the like?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Why not make your own? The cast-in T tracks are universal.
All you need is a plan and few bits of hardware.

"Dual-Track (with Universal T-track AND standard miter slot) is machined directly into the table's surface - true one-piece construction"
https://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Americ...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B011IKV306


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Hello Poplarguy - when you get a chance, update your profile and at the very least, put in a name you'd like to be called.

Have you considered building your own fence - here's a pic of a fence I built - has two sliding faces to close up the gap around the bit. The fence just clamps to the router table at both ends.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The reviews are kind of interesting, they point to weaknesses in the face of the fence (MDF) and the lockdown method (easily slips), the relatively low fence height. But each seem fairly easy to fix to me. a couple of strips of non friction tape could eliminate the squealing as you move it. Cut a slot in the taller fence front to install T-track for featherboards or accessories. So it seems you must make your own, adapt anothe brand to your table or put up with this one, which is on sale just now for $129. The reviews suggest fixes for its weak points.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Here's one from the archive...
http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/23801-router-table-fence-material.html#post211983
Obviously you'd want laminated material as you point out the humidity will wreck MDF (personally don't like MDF anyway).


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Vince's is virtually identical to mine. Works very well and the dust collection also works well. When you need to make a fine adjustment I make a pencil mark as close to the fence as I can and then only loosen and adjust one side. Since you are only moving one side the adjustment is only 1/2 that much at the bit so you can make some pretty fine adjustments that way without needing extra hardware.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@Poplarguy - Using that fence and this router table, I just finished making rail and stile panels (8) and drawer fronts (6) for a kitchen island for a relative. No issues. Of course I used my Bosch 1617.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Guys, thanks for the input. I did think of using the recommended one and changing the MDF, but thought if there was a better one that fit without having to mod it would be simpler. The thought of building one really didn't hit my mind until some of you posted, and it's good to know that if I chose that route they'd be reliable. 

I'm going to check a few other manufacturers and see if there is a way to adapt it, if I find other options I'll re-post here in the hopes it might help those in the future. 

Seems crazy there is not a "standard" for these so you could pick and choose what you wanted to use across brands.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

vchiarelli said:


> @Poplarguy - Using that fence and this router table, I just finished making rail and stile panels (8) and drawer fronts (6) for a kitchen island for a relative. No issues. Of course I used my Bosch 1617.


Your pics just popped up. Very nice! I hope they loved them.


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

Poplarguy said:


> Has anyone used this top in conjunction with a top quality fence system, say the Incra LS or the like?



Incra shows a work-a-round where you use angle iron to attach an extension to an existing table, although their instructions assume a top that can be screwed too, not cast iron.

If you decide to make a fence, you might want to consider magswitch magnets. http://www.rockler.com/magswitch-magnetic-jigs-magswitch-magjigs


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Terry Q said:


> Incra shows a work-a-round where you use angle iron to attach an extension to an existing table, although their instructions assume a top that can be screwed too, not cast iron.
> 
> If you decide to make a fence, you might want to consider magswitch magnets.
> 
> ...


Wow.... learn something new every day. I wonder if they would slide on the top?? Anyone using them?


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

I use them with a feather board and they hold fairly tight, they make a business model out of them so I would hope they are doing well. They do make different strengths of magnets for different applications, but they all release with a turn of the handle. 


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Tom there is no standard because we all have different things that work for us and that we like using. Some people like t tracks and some prefer to just clamp the fence to the table. I've tried both and have no preference. Some want a miter slot or like using sleds. I just use a square pusher block against the fence for those cuts. Things like that is why no one can come up with a standard model.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I used this X-1 fence on my cast iron table. It will fit any table, just requires drilling some holes to mount the angles. I am quite happy with it.

https://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/router_table5.html

Herb


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Guys sorry for disappearing on everyone, my login password got messed up and I didn't have the time to reset everything. 

Some updates on the frustrations I've had trying to get this combo up and running: I purchased the Incra Master Lift from Rockler. When it showed up, one of the guide bars was poking through the box and was refused. I was shocked to see that they just placed a ~$400 piece of precision equipment in a box with virtually no protection. I sent it back and I waited for a new one to arrive. Meanwhile I also ordered the cast iron top from Rockler, and it took a bit longer to get here. Tracking said it would be here today, so I was anxious when UPS came today and.... he had no router top. Checked the tracking info and it says it was "damaged in shipment and returned to sender". So Rockler is 2 for 2 at this point with my orders, not sure who they have packing things but he/she might need some pointers. 

I cringe to think that the 3rd order I placed with them was for the Bench Dog pro router table fence as it was quick, convenient and will get me going on some projects. Hoping it's not a 3-for-3 situation. I am going to replace the MDF boards with starboard or the like for stability.

In closing, I did find out that the Incra LS Positioner WILL work with this table but will have to be mounted off the rear of the table using some L-brackets on the sides and an extension on the top. All this could, in theory, be removable when not needed as it would create a very large router top indeed. I am attracted to some of the features of the LS, mainly the precision adjustments, and if I do add this to the top at some point I'll be sure to post additional photos. 

I'll get my cabinet built and post up a few photos when I get everything running. Anxious is not the word!

Thank you all for your input.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom you’ve sure had some bad luck with shipping, and I hope things turn around for you . 
Looking forward to seeing your setup once it’s complete . The router has to be one of the most indispensable tools out there, and I’ve certainly had a ton of uses with mine


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Sounds like you've settled in your choices. I've had good luck ordering online and picking up at stores. I now compare prices on WalMart, big box stores, each of which allows store delivery. The boxes are not so beaten up that way, and the prices are sometimel lower. Delivery is generally 2-3 days at most.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Thanks guys, new top should be here tomorrow (Friday) which would be ideal and let me get started on making a cabinet for everything over the long weekend. 

Fence showed up today from Rockler, box mangled and end ripped off but amazingly everything is in the box and it all seems intact. I have to do a bit of searching and find a T-track bit to let me make new backer boards from Starboard or UHMW to replace the MDF ones that came with it. Any input?

The cabinet I'm hoping to build is based on "downtoearthwoodworks" version on youtube. Different top of course, but the cabinet looks like it'll do anything I need. Ambitious project for a guy with my limited skill set but I'm looking forward to the challenge.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Poplarguy said:


> Thanks guys, new top should be here tomorrow (Friday) which would be ideal and let me get started on making a cabinet for everything over the long weekend.
> 
> Fence showed up today from Rockler, box mangled and end ripped off but amazingly everything is in the box and it all seems intact.


Who the heck’s delivering your parcels , this guy ?


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## Mycrossover (Dec 29, 2017)

Poplarguy said:


> Longtime lurker here with a request for help.
> 
> I recently purchased a Rockler ProMaxRT Cast-Iron router top (stand-alone version) along with an Incra Master Lift II-R and a Porter Cable 7518 in the hopes I could use and enjoy this package well into my retirement. My current project will be our kitchen re-do and I'd like to be able to reliably and safely produce rail/stile doors with raised panels, which I guess is one of my biggest concerns about getting a sturdy, precise fence.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I won't be much help. There used to be a TV wood working show abour router wood working and the host did really nice stuff with a straight board and two C clamps for a router fence. I think sometimes we get too hung up on the hardware. They design these really elaborate fences and router lifts and convince everybody that they need them to do good work. Just my two cents.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Mycrossover said:


> Sorry, I won't be much help. There used to be a TV wood working show abour router wood working and the host did really nice stuff with a straight board and two C clamps for a router fence. I think sometimes we get too hung up on the hardware. They design these really elaborate fences and router lifts and convince everybody that they need them to do good work. Just my two cents.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I agree, and I might be subject to that by nature. 

Although I do want to do a lot more with this table than just edge profiling, and I believe an accurately adjustable rear fence might be an asset. 

As a further kick in the butt, I ordered a Grizzly G0651 tablesaw which came in yesterday and it looks like they shipped me the wrong front and rear rails. I basically gave away my old table saw 2 days ago to make room for this one so now I'm down for the count with no table saw either. 

New top should be here today for the router but without a saw I can't start on the cabinet base. Looks like I need to find other things on the honeydo list to accomplish this 3-day weekend.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Poplarguy said:


> As a further kick in the butt, I ordered a Grizzly G0651 tablesaw which came in yesterday and it looks like they shipped me the wrong front and rear rails. I basically gave away my old table saw 2 days ago to make room for this one so now I'm down for the count with no table saw either.
> 
> New top should be here today for the router but without a saw I can't start on the cabinet base. Looks like I need to find other things on the honeydo list to accomplish this 3-day weekend.


Frustrating. I hope Grizzly sends the right parts quickly. Let us know whether they send parts fast. This is how we learn about these companies' customer service. Still, a weekend without a table saw tries ones patience.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mycrossover said:


> There used to be a TV wood working show abour router wood working and the host did really nice stuff with a straight board and two C clamps for a router fence. I think sometimes we get too hung up on the hardware. They design these really elaborate fences and router lifts and convince everybody that they need them to do good work. Just my two cents.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


That was the Router Workshop with Bob and Rick Rosendahl. Their son/grandson Mark Rosendahl was the person who started this forum. https://www.oak-park.com/store-dvds.php

They certainly believed in keeping it simple.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> Frustrating. I hope Grizzly sends the right parts quickly. Let us know whether they send parts fast. This is how we learn about these companies' customer service. Still, a weekend without a table saw tries ones patience.


Well Grizzly was on the ball. I can say take detailed pics to show the issue, that helps. I emailed pics 4PM Thursday and they responded saying they were reviewing. By 10AM my time Friday they called to confirm it was the wrong part and gave me tracking info on the new rail coming UPS. Honestly, the saw showed up 2 days early so for me to have to wait 3 days for the new part I'm pretty close to even. I'm happy. Both tools are very visually appealing, like jewelry almost. Can't wait to turn them on, I'm in the process of running electric right now. 

Rockler, on the other hand, gets a zero and is a polar opposite from Grizzly. My router top failed to show up yesterday yet again. Called to ask for tracking # only to find out it had been shipped Thursday when they promised it was going to be delivered Friday. It's supposed to arrive next Thursday now. The kicker is they pretty much told me I was lying when I said the rep told me it would be delivered Friday but they offered to listed to the call recording, which they did and called me back to confirm I was told it would be delivered Friday. At this point I'm probably going to cancel the top on Tuesday and return the lift (specific to the Bench dog top) and fence and just take my business elsewhere, start my search for a suitable top and lift/fence again.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I understand your frustration, Tom, and your being angry at Rockler. Having said that, from their perspective you can put money on their being bombarded with nuisance and fraudulent claims on a daily basis. Customers buying and abusing tools, then returning them claiming they were defective when they received them etc. _ It shouldn't come back at you_ but they're likely working flat out coming up to Xmas and lets just say the good natured-we're here to help-how can we fix this persona may occasionally slip.
Write the senior management and explain the circumstances and why you're very unhappy. Calm but firm. You've got nothing to lose. 
Returning the stuff won't hurt anyone but you; the floor guys will just bury the episode. Just my opinion.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think Dan is probably correct. I seldom order anything from Rockler for home delivery. My Rockler is about an hour away, so I usually only buy from them if they have things in stock and I'm going to be down there for another reason. The folks at my Rockler have always been helpful as heck. In one case, they arranged for an employee at another location to truck my saw to the local store. Done overnight for next day pickup. I really don't like the condition shipping crates are in by the time they come to my house. So I check to see if other sources that have store delivery have the item and pick it up myself. If the packaging is messed up or it's a repack, I inspect it there and refuse the item if it's not in factory condition. Depends on the packaging. So many tools today are packed in tight fitting foam.

My mom called going off in anger cutting off my nose to spite my own face. Most companies don't care in the least since you're only dealing with a local employee. The top will be there soon, probably before an alternative would arrive. and their table should be great and once set up, you're probably going to love it.

I'm reminded of the Compulsive's prayer: "Lord, grant me patience, and I mean, *RIGHT NOW!*"


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## Mycrossover (Dec 29, 2017)

Poplarguy said:


> I agree, and I might be subject to that by nature.
> 
> Although I do want to do a lot more with this table than just edge profiling, and I believe an accurately adjustable rear fence might be an asset.
> 
> ...


Everything goes wrong at once. Things always seem to fail on long holiday weekends. Murphy's law. Anyway, Happy New Year.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Thought I'd update this thread as I've gotten into this a bit deeper and have (hopefully) learned from the experience. 

I wound up cancelling my order with Rockler, both for the fence and for the router top and I'll explain why. First, as noted above the level of customer service with them wasn't what I was looking for in a vendor. Second, out of 3 items I ordered from them on 3 different occasions (Jessem lift, bench dog cast iron top, bench dog router fence) all three had damage (or were damaged AND lost) during shipping. The Incra lift was actually hanging out of the box when it was left at my doorstep, not what one would expect when receiving a $400 piece of precise equipment. The router top apparently came out of the box during transport and was lost, and the router fence box was ripped open upon arrival. Blame it on who you wish but I have not had a package come through UPS like any of those in any recent history and I purchase a ton of stuff though the mail and am a UPS shipper at my business so I don't blame UPS so much as I do the sender and their lack of packing knowledge about box construction and selection and general lack of care. 

Although I never opened the cast iron top, it is interesting that Rockler makes the claim that the top weighs 96 lbs, and yet my shipping label said 67 lbs and the return label they sent me said 66 lbs. I can confirm that is accurate. So either Rockler's claim of 96 lbs is false, or they shipped me the wrong part as the table saw extension version weighs 62lb per their spec, and based on the CS experience I've had with them I'd say the latter is true. 

Lastly, what Rockler does is try to paint a customer into an exclusive corner with the parts they sell. The version of Incra Master Lift I purchased from them only works with their Bench Dog Pro Maxx top as the plate size is 1" smaller than Incra's normal version. Additionally as mentioned previously the only fence I could find that would work is, again, an exclusive version they sell. If you're OK with Rockler stuff that's great, but if not you really don't have any options. 

With the above stated I'd like to leave it at that, and move on to what this thread was about, choosing a router fence and top. 

Since I'm so far behind my intended schedule at this point I just cancelled everything from Rockler, and will wait a bit longer and get the Incra LS super system positioner. I wound up ordering one on the last day they had the 10% holiday code and am waiting out the 3-5 week backorder time from them. I'll redesign my router cabinet and just make a top out of what will likely be multi-layer ply for structure and heft, topped with either a formica skin or even some King Starboard which I've used extensively in the past and am happy with. Oddly, the cost on the Incra system and related top materials will wind up being very comparable to the Rockler top and basic fence, however naturally I'll have more of my time invested in making the top for the Incra version. In the end I know I'll be much happier with the quality and features of the Incra system down the road. 

So..... Once the goodies arrive from Incra I'll re-post with some updates.


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## Mycrossover (Dec 29, 2017)

Poplarguy said:


> Thought I'd update this thread as I've gotten into this a bit deeper and have (hopefully) learned from the experience.
> 
> I wound up cancelling my order with Rockler, both for the fence and for the router top and I'll explain why. First, as noted above the level of customer service with them wasn't what I was looking for in a vendor. Second, out of 3 items I ordered from them on 3 different occasions (Jessem lift, bench dog cast iron top, bench dog router fence) all three had damage (or were damaged AND lost) during shipping. The Incra lift was actually hanging out of the box when it was left at my doorstep, not what one would expect when receiving a $400 piece of precise equipment. The router top apparently came out of the box during transport and was lost, and the router fence box was ripped open upon arrival. Blame it on who you wish but I have not had a package come through UPS like any of those in any recent history and I purchase a ton of stuff though the mail and am a UPS shipper at my business so I don't blame UPS so much as I do the sender and their lack of packing knowledge about box construction and selection and general lack of care.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up on Rockler. Do you have a Woodcraft or an independant woodworking supply near Stuart? I always feel better when I can look at what I am buying. The Woodworking Shows will be in Tampa the end of this month. Manufacturers and dealers are there to demo their stuff. I find it a good source of info, even if I buy later. There are usually show specials. I picked up my router table, stand and fence at a show, a long time ago. It is an economy setup but it does me.
For router accessories look at MLCS online. A lot of useful stuff. They ship all orders free. Neat store near Philly.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Thought I'd update this thread, not only do I learn so much from this forum but I thought my experience might interest some. In the long run as noted above, I ditched the Rockler top/fnce idea and just made my own top out of 2 pieces of 3/4 marine ply, with a sheet of formica over it and have installed an Incra LS system which I am really just starting to understand all it can do. 

Here's what I've learned in doing this, if it helps anyone: Incra makes 2 versions of this router plate; one for themselves, and another for Rockler. Get the one directly from Incra as it is 1" wider than the Rockler version. That 1" doesn't sound like much but it offers a larger/more stable base, and it'll be easier to install the router/plate assembly into the hole in your table if you're using thicker top material since the hole cutout will be larger to match the base. 

I did purchase some 2" Aluminum angle brackets, cut them to size and drilled them to install both under the top/alongside the Incra plate to prevent any potential sagging. I also installed a pair under the cabinet running the full width, again to prevent any possibility of sagging. Overkill perhaps, but it certainly can't hurt. They were purchased very inexpensively off eBay from a company that happens to be fairly local to me and when I went to pick it up they turned out to be good people. If anyone wants their contact info, PM me. I have no affiliation with them, just noted they were great to work with and the price was very reasonable. 

Another tip, Home Depot sells aluminum strips that I've pictured below that you can place below the plate, giving your height adjustment screws a solid surface that won't change over time like they would if they were in contact with wood. I cut them to size and placed along the outer edges of the Incra plate. Once you screw the incra plate down, they're locked in place, very solid. 

Anyways, thank you all for the input, hope this info helps some people down the road.


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## suds (Aug 25, 2008)

I have a similar setup. Put in the MastrLift and a Incra Clean Sweep and it is just sweet. Mark from Incra was beyond helpful.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Putttn said:


> I have a similar setup. Put in the MastrLift and a Incra Clean Sweep and it is just sweet. *Mark from Incra was beyond helpful*.


I found the same to be true about Mark. The Masterlift II is one heckuva sweet setup and I'm loving it every time I adjust/install a bit. I'm still waiting on a dust collector from Grizzly to be able to finalize the Clean Sweep install, however I'm thinking of abandoning that idea and going with the HF/super Dust Deputy setup as I've been waiting too darned long. Glad to hear you're happy with your setup as well.


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## suds (Aug 25, 2008)

Poplarguy said:


> I found the same to be true about Mark. The Masterlift II is one heckuva sweet setup and I'm loving it every time I adjust/install a bit. I'm still waiting on a dust collector from Grizzly to be able to finalize the Clean Sweep install, however I'm thinking of abandoning that idea and going with the HF/super Dust Deputy setup as I've been waiting too darned long. Glad to hear you're happy with your setup as well.


I have that setup with a old Shopsmith Vacuum and it works great. Have two of them (DD) and one is set up to a Rigid vac and it works as well.


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Putttn said:


> I have that setup with a old Shopsmith Vacuum and it works great. Have two of them (DD) and one is set up to a Rigid vac and it works as well.


Thank you, good to know. I am currently running a DD on a ridgid 6.5hp shop vac and am thrilled with it (heck even my wife loves it for collecting pet hair in the house) however I don't think it'd be up to the task of keeping up with this and an aggressive bit. Cleanup afterwards is getting old 

Oh how I wish I had invented that thing because it really works well!!


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## suds (Aug 25, 2008)

I was worried that my Rigid vac wouldn’t be able to keel up but it has been near perfect on a Kapex, drum sander and on the when needed on the Router table. Not sure how it would work withot the Dust Deputies but so far it has been perfect. My Garage is my shop and it has to be pretty good because my wife is a dust nazi!!


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## Poplarguy (Dec 19, 2017)

Putttn said:


> I was worried that my Rigid vac wouldn’t be able to keel up but it has been near perfect on a Kapex, drum sander and on the when needed on the Router table. Not sure how it would work withot the Dust Deputies but so far it has been perfect. My Garage is my shop and it has to be pretty good because my wife is a dust nazi!!


Good to know, out of curiosity does it actually keep up on the router table when using bigger bits/more shavings?


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## suds (Aug 25, 2008)

So far it has done a great job of anything I've thrown at it. I don't have the Wonder Fence but someday I may add that. I think that would make it about as good as it could possibly get.


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