# How do you guys do it?



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

I have seen multiple router table stands built using 2x4 lumber, and apparently it can be done or I wouldn't be seeing it. Yet I can't seem to find any 2x lumber that doesn't have a slight crown or twist. Am I looking at it too hard? Maybe some of them are more usable than I am giving credit for. 

Is it that the stands I am seeing made like this, they have taken the lumber through the jointer and planer to straighten it? And if that is the case, how does anyone have faith that it won't bow or twist again, because at that point the wood is thinner than before, which in my mind makes me think it would bow easier than it did when it was thicker? 

So far I have yet to start on making a table because of being paralyzed from lack of good wood at a decent price and being afraid to start. I do have money to spend so I guess I can do better than 2x lumber, but I just wanted to know how others do it. I have seen router tables, work benches, and other things made from plain old 2x4's. Maybe I'm just not there yet in skill level. Maybe?


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm surprised you can't find any decent 2 x4's , as we send all our straight wood to the U.S.?


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> I'm surprised you can't find any decent 2 x4's , as we send all our straight wood to the U.S.?


That is why I ask if I am being too critical. I find plenty that are suitable to build a house with, or general all purpose work benches where dead flat surfaces are not necessary, just "close enough" is all that is needed. I am looking for some to be ram rod straight, and impress me in a way as to make me think they will remain that way. So far I just haven't seen it. If it is off by as much as 1/8 inch from end to end (say a bow in the middle) I have no way to straighten that beyond a table saw rip, and without at least one straight edge to reference with it can't be done.

I looked at a pile of what they called Top Choice whitewood 2x4's and found them to not be straight and flat like I want my router table to be. I think these were Douglas Fir even though the label didn't say so. They were right below a stack of Douglas Fir 4x4's and both lumbers had the same reddish appearance and grain lines. These were the best the store had to offer, at nearly $4 per board, which is not high in general, but is high for 2x4 pricing. Many of those had a slight crown, hump, twist, or other imperfection. Nothing that would keep them from being used as intended in house framing, but I just wouldn't have wanted these for any project where it must remain 100% flat at all times. My idea to build the table involved making a frame from 2x4, and a table top from baltic birch and then attaching it to the frame. If the frame twists or bows, it's firewood.


----------



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Duane - I'm guessing you don't have a jointer?

Agree with not ripping on the table saw without one straight edge, but how about attaching the 2 x to a sled made out of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood and use the sled as a straight edge on the table saw?
Something like this:


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Duane, are you shopping at a lumber mill or a big box store? It makes a world of difference.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> I'm surprised you can't find any decent 2 x4's , as we send all our straight wood to the U.S.?


We send all the crooked stuff north to Canada and all the straight stuff to Japan. we only keep the twisted stuff.LOL

I agree with Mike if you can go to a mill or google outfits that supply furniture grade lumber.

Several years ago I made a dining room table for my son that was 40"X96" and had trestle stand.
I found a warehouse in So. Seattle that I didn't know existed and got 2X6 D clear pine that was beautiful and made the table out of it. 

Another source is a Pallet manufacturer, they buy their lumber Mill Run by the sling and sort out all the good stuff and sell it on the side and make the pallets out of the other stuff.
Sometimes you can buy from millwork companies that are cleaning house and surplusing lumber.

Herb


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Warehouse in south seattle. My ears perk up! Not Crosscut? Inquiring minds want to know...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Duane; I feel your pain! 
http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/67698-bench-top.html
But seriously, only one supplier? If the grade of D Fir was decent, I'd grab the best of what's available, and work with it. Machining it down to 3", with straight sides should give you tons of strength, even if you needed to joint the face side to less than 1 1/2" thick.
This is construction lumber; the best has been selected for export.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> I'm surprised you can't find any decent 2 x4's , as we send all our straight wood to the U.S.?


if that's so...
I feel for you guys...


----------



## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

I've had fairly good success with 2x4 lumber for items (torsion box for router table, work bench, inverting table stand for miter saw/planer). At that time, I did not have a jointer. I did square up the lumber mostly for appearances and joints. If I couldn't true the pieces up with the table saw or planer, I used a jack plane - except for the work bench surface (router). I did stay away from twisted stock but some of it was crowned. The variance in the 8' stock was always less once the pieces were cut. They haven't moved or warped since but all the items were poly'ed or painted once assembled. If I had to do it over again - I probably would, except for the bench top - I would have sprung for hardwood just for the durability.


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Don't forget Duane, its only the top surface that has to be flat, make the rails so they stick up 2mm past the top of the legs and then you can plane the top flat by hand, then put your router top onto that, I would also be surprise if you can't find flat ones but my experience is 2x4 type lumber is building grade not furniture grade, seasoned furniture grade timber is far flatter, building grade timber may not be the correct moisture content so will move around as it dries, anyway just get the top surface flat and it will be OK to sit a laminated surface Router Table Top on top off. N


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes, I am shopping at big box stores. I don't know of any mills around here. I will have to try to find some, but doesn't the wood at a big box first come from a mill anyway? What makes the difference? 

Also, I just looked at another thread where a guy made a bench from 2x3 wood from a big box store. Of course, he had access to a planer, and I might have read that it was jointed too, can't recall, but still. These are even thinner than 2x4 across the faces, but they worked to create a work bench. I should be able to do this same thing it seems. I don't have a planer or jointer though, and I have considered the sled on a table saw to create a flat edge. Might just do that. I need to start somewhere, I just feel that if wood is already bowed, it will have a tendency to continue bowing, and thinning it down to make it straight will just increase the potential for further bowing later. 

Also, as luck would have it, my last experience with a 2x3 specifically, I was trying to rip one on a job site for use, and used a circular saw with an edge guide. Started the cut, so far so good, made it about 4 feet into it, and the blade bound up tight and actually stalled the saw. I looked behind to see that I had released so much internal pressure that the kerf behind me had closed up tight for about two feet, and pinched the blade. I couldn't even pull the two halves open enough to get the saw unstuck without a prybar. That was nuts. The cut was severly wavy as a result also, but where I needed that board it didn't matter so I used it. But experiences like these tend to make me think they use better wood for larger boards, and the smaller the dimesion, the crappier the wood. I would have never chosen 2x3 for a work bench, so you can imagine my stunned disbelief when I see it done sucessfully by others.

I had a similar experience just this past weekend. Crosscutting a 2x12 on the miter saw. Had the whole 12' long board on it (never do that again). Half way across, it stalled. The blade was stuck and I like to never got it off. Thought it was going to bend or break the blade first. It flexed a lot! I can't tell any damage now after I got it off, but it sure scared me in the mean time. I ended up cradling the entire board in my arms and letting gravity help get it off, and even then I had to do a lot of shaking and wiggling to make it come off. Wow! I know it was a mistake to put such a large heavy board on that saw, so I wonder if that contributed to it. However, if it hadn't been for the board's weight, I never would have gotten it loose. It was hanging on with a death grip, and after it came off the kerf opening closed up somewhat, less than saw blade width, but not enough to touch. I had crosscut it about 6" at that point. I normally use a circular saw on wood like this but for this use I needed good, 90 degree crosscuts. 

Basically, I have come to believe that 2x lumber is just utility grade, used where 1/8 accuracy is close enough, doesn't have to be straight as an arrow or dead flat with no twist. Yet I see I see people do it all the time and wonder how, with the experiences I have had.


----------



## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I used 3/4 plywood rips in my torsion box frame Cheaper than 2X4's


----------



## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

If you are talking about making the table out of 2x4's don't do it. You end up with a surface that is too thick for your router bits to be able to get through. You could recess the back and set your router into the recess but then you have a recess on the top for the plate and the bottom for the router ton sit in. Also you will need to apply laminate to the top and bottom and 2x4's won't be a stable surface. What I have recommended in the past is to find a used office furniture store and try to get a work station top for a few bucks. These are the tops used in cubicles. These tops although thick lend themselves to being routed and are very stable.


----------



## john60 (Aug 30, 2014)

Make the 2x4 frame out of the best 2x4's you find in the pile. Dust the top of the frame with chalk. Set the top on the fame. tap with mallet to trasfer chalk. Remove high spots on frame with plane or sanding. Chalk it again. Keep repeating till you get good contact. Even if you get joined edge wood it still a good idea to check this way.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Use plywood instead like Bill suggested. Double them if you are concerned about strength hand rigidity.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I think Duane's talking about three different 'projects'. The legs for the RT, the top for the RT, and a workbench top...but maybe I misunderstood. 

Duane; I've never seen really decent lumber at HD or RONA (up here in Can.). Their purchasers don't buy locally as far as I can tell, and _their_ t buying cost seems to be their main, if not only, concern.
Small local mills are great, but really their should be a/some smaller lumberyards where the contractors have their accounts. Once again, look for a custom house under construction, and ask the guys on site (lunch time is good) for some guidance as to where to get decent material...It helps if the house is in the framing stage.
Also, as I've mentioned before, at 7:00AM ish the local builders and contractors will have their favourite coffee shop where they get together and BS...they actually do use the time productively, trading local info as to jobs coming up, whose got good deals, etc. Good place to make some friends, especially if you're looking for some help.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I was thinking about this last night, Duane (3:00AM...you're in big trouble!). Another alternative is to rip your 2x into 1" thick strips and reassemble them into a laminated 3x3...alternating the crowns. Glued and clamped obviously; don't even bother with metal fasteners. It'll just cause grief down the road when you need to further machine them. Plane the faces down on the TS or hand plane to a smooth face.
Stable, massively strong and easily made into a smaller dimension if you decide the 3x3 is too big.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Duane

All wood no matter where you buy it must be trued up to use. Starting any woodworking project by jointing and planing will greatly improve the end product and will also make the process go much smoother. Yes it can be done without it but there isn't a single guy here that would give up those tools after having them. 

If its not, I would make buying a joiner and planer your number one goal. Providing you already have a good table saw.

Al


----------



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

To be clear, what I am thinking about is building a stand for a router table from 2x4's. Cheap, $3-4 boards, and then apply either an aftermarket top to it, or make my own from baltic birch plywood. I just figured making a stand would save a few bucks and allow me to put more money into the top itself, such as with the insert plate, the fence, lamination, extra insert rings, featherboards, and things like that. But I don't want to do the best job I can making the stand, and then have it warp later due to being inferior wood. 

I think I will get some 2x4's and run them through the table saw on a sled to true up one side, then do the opposite side if needed, and build a stand and see what happens. I can make one with about 6 boards, so about $20, plus the cost of making a sled (plywood or one good quality straight board). That is not a lot, which the money was never my concern anyway. I am just worried about it lasting and staying flat for a long time. I don't really want to need to redo it again in 6 months because it warped and started affecting my cuts. I had planned to make a table I could use as a limited function jointer also, so maintaining a 90 degree fence to table reference is a must.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I agree with the plywood crowd. You will have much easier time of it if you make the stand out of plywood. Fighting warpage isn't fun. Personally, I'd build a storage cabinet for your router table top.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

frame + plywood + unfinished oak or maple flooring...


----------



## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Ask around with other woodworkers in your area. I shop at a wood shop locally that is not on the internet and does not advertise. I found it by word of mouth with local woodworkers. Their wood makes the stuff in Lowes & Home Depot look like firewood. Owned by a man & wife who will do most anything for their customers. A little pricey but you get what you pay for.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

When I want something straight and to stay that way, I find the straightest Oak stair step I can at a big box store. Wide enough so that once you joint it, on a TS or jointer, all the subsequent cuts will be good. These chunks of Oak are almost always straight grained and stable.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> Warehouse in south seattle. My ears perk up! Not Crosscut? Inquiring minds want to know...





Duane Bledsoe said:


> I have seen multiple router table stands built using 2x4 lumber, and apparently it can be done or I wouldn't be seeing it. Yet I can't seem to find any 2x lumber that doesn't have a slight crown or twist. Am I looking at it too hard? Maybe some of them are more usable than I am giving credit for.
> 
> Is it that the stands I am seeing made like this, they have taken the lumber through the jointer and planer to straighten it? And if that is the case, how does anyone have faith that it won't bow or twist again, because at that point the wood is thinner than before, which in my mind makes me think it would bow easier than it did when it was thicker?
> 
> So far I have yet to start on making a table because of being paralyzed from lack of good wood at a decent price and being afraid to start. I do have money to spend so I guess I can do better than 2x lumber, but I just wanted to know how others do it. I have seen router tables, work benches, and other things made from plain old 2x4's. Maybe I'm just not there yet in skill level. Maybe?


Phil it has been awhile back, can't remember the name of the outfit, It was just initials. I think they were just lumber brokers that order what youwant. When I went to pick it up there were just bundles on skids stacked around. CrossCut is my favorite place.

Duane, You know Solid core doors make wonderful work tops. You can pick them up reasonable priced at the used material places. we have several here and they have stacks of them.
I would go with the 2X4's for the base frame ,or 3/4" plywood then put a top on it of plywood,MDF, Particle board and p-lam on the surface.

Herb


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...because it warped and started affecting my cuts. I had planned to make a table I could use as a limited function jointer also, so maintaining a 90 degree fence to table reference is a must."

You're muddying the waters here, Duane. The legs shouldn't affect the flatness of the top, or the relationship to the fence. Unless you're referring to the horizontal framing at/near the top?
Even then the chance of it causing distortion is pretty negligible in 2' - 3'. If that's what you're worried about, use plywood for the top support framing.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Duane..

eastern KY for sale "lumber" - craigslist

your surrounded by good wood, might be a drive here or there..but prices look fair...

Once you get to know a few of these folks, you'll be amazed how close someone just might be. Most of the sawers I deal with are 
just plain good folks. The better they get to know ya, the better the prices seem to get *L*..

another handy search engine for wood... 

SearchTempest: Search all of Craigslist nationwide & more


----------



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Duane:
I agree with Dan that the legs won't affect the flatness of the top.

A number of years ago I made a workbench for my garage and another for my basement shop. Made the legs, stretchers and aprons out of 2x4 (2 pieces laminated). In the garage, I added a counter top that I got from work (free) when they were dismantling a lab, and in the basement the top was made out of two pieces of 3/4 inch mdf. Haven't experienced any warping on either bench legs and certainly no affect on the flatness of the tops. (the garage bench goes through some extreme temperature changes.

I believe the stretchers and aprons prevent the warping that you're talking about.

But, go to any big box and look at the 2 x material lying around loose and you can probably make a crossbow out of it.

When I buy material from the big box I'll go down the pile as far as I can looking for the straightest pieces - the ones on top are the worst.

I'm lucky to have a small mill near me, so if I need material for a nicer project, I'll buy rough sawn - but I do have a jointer and a planer so I dress my own.

Lastly, if you can't dress material, go with plywood and you won't have a problem


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have found where I used short pieces of 2x4's that I can find some stock to use for projects like two tables I built for my planer, drill press, and band saw. Boards weren't over 30 inches. If you go to a big box store, you might have to go through a lot of wood to find 3 or 4 that are decent. Lowe's keeps all their lumber inside so the weather doesn't figure in warped wood.


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Duane, use those 2x4's to build you stand then use adjustable appliance feet, as I did on mines, on the four corners to keep your table flat. The cabinet I built is rude and crude, but I used adjustable appliance feet to keep the table level. It also worked out, with the soft pads, because my table is hinged to the cabinet.


----------



## woodworker28 (May 1, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> Duane - I'm guessing you don't have a jointer?
> 
> Agree with not ripping on the table saw without one straight edge, but how about attaching the 2 x to a sled made out of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood and use the sled as a straight edge on the table saw?
> Something like this:


That was a good tip that I must put in the brain bank for the next time I have the same problem


----------

