# musclechuck nut



## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Just got a musclechuck, and run into an immediate problem;
I dont have a spanner (wrench) to fit the nut.
I assumed it would be the same size as the router nut, but no.

I am all metric with my tools, dont even have an imperial vernier to measure the nut, so help;
what imperial size do I need? Because I know I'm not going to find a 25.24 mm spanner anywhere.
Pretty usre its not relevant but its a number 9 chuck.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

use a calculator..
1''...

https://www.musclechuck.com/portfolio-view/type-9/


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Thats gonna cost me a pretty penny. wonder if I can hire one for five minutes?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

buy a whole set of SAE wrenches...

.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That nut doesn't require very much torque Bob. I torqued mine too much and caused excess run out doing it. A 26mm would probably work well enough to get it on if an adjustable spanner doesn't work.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> use a calculator..
> 1''...
> 
> https://www.musclechuck.com/portfolio-view/type-9/


"Info:# Of Grooves On Head - 3 | Nut Size Across Flats - 1 in."
What is the significance of the 3 grooves on head?
Herb


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> buy a whole set of SAE wrenches...


I think those work on metric too!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> That nut doesn't require very much torque Bob. I torqued mine too much and caused excess run out doing it. A 26mm would probably work well enough to get it on if an adjustable spanner doesn't work.


26mm and a shim...


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Bob
you need to email MuscleChuck Tom, tell which muscleChuck your own because the nuts come in 4 different sizes comes ( depends on which chuck you have )
they are good at getting right back to you
tell us which model chuck you have


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Since it only needs to go on once, I would use an "open end adjustable hammer"...and if you need it again, you can just pull it out of the drawer...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...HVq0hA_SGy5LzXdj7cxoCPFkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> buy a whole set of SAE wrenches...
> 
> .


But then you gotta buy a metric and a standard one


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## graeme.c.payne (Jun 21, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> buy a whole set of SAE wrenches...
> 
> .


Ah yes, the universal inch/metric wrench ...


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I found one.
I phoned around all my friends, who are all retired and mostly ex tradesmen. One of them found an old 9/16" whitworth, which is also 5/8" British Standard, which just happens to be 1" AF.
The other end is a 9/16"W and 5/8" BS .

And you lot wonder why metric is so popular!

I think this would be a collectable now, it has to at be least 70 years old.
Now I just have to work out how much is 12 ft/lbs without being able to use my torque wrench. And i thought this was a simple bolt on!!


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Bob, now you have me flummoxed. Does this mean that 1 inch is not necessarily 1 inch? How many inches are there? I thought it related to a standard Anglo- Roman thumb. I know about Imp and US gallons, but I always assumed the inch was standard. Even more of a marvel how the guys landed on the moon 50 years ago.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

I suppose you could attach an extender to the wrench, and attach a 12 lb weight at 1 foot from the center of the router shaft, while lying the router on its side? Provided we are talking about the same foot, and the same pound?


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

You should still be able to find impartial weights from shop scales, in some of the junk dealers in Cyprus. There was a place in Larnaka that still had WWII era British military radio headsets - bound to have some old scales from peripteros.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

now is the time for a socket and a torque wrench and some conversion formulas...
metric socket too big???
shim it...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

shim that 6 point socket...

sheet metal..
coins..
tape..
playing card...

.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Biagio, without going into a 50 page history of spanners (yes, they are spanners, NOT wrenches) in the past, there were dozens of ways of measuring bolts and nuts, hole diameter, bolt diameter, size of circle the nut was shaped from, etc etc. and every manufacturer made their own and sized their own, to make customers have to buy parts from the makers. So around the end of the 1800's a Mr. Whitworth attempted to standardise them all, which is where the "whitworth thread" came from. Which then became British Standard. But of course even then we has BS coarse, BS fine.

He was quite successful, but then the Uk learnt about metric and it all went to hell again. 
And I havent even touched on the american SAE, and others because america is still only about 25% metrified (if that).
To make it even worse, this musclechuck nut measures 1"AF Which is stands for *A*cross the *F*lats. 
60 years ago when I first started using spanners on my motorcycles, I always though AF stood for American Fine thread, which just shows how screwed up things are.
Its hell out in nut and bolt land.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

These are spanner wrenchs to us on this side of the pond...

.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Nope, those are "C" spanners, because they are shaped like a C.

A true old english spanner (and lets face it, you cant get an older spanner than an english spanner)
is one of these
https://www.heamar.co.uk/stahlwille...1-1-8-x-1-5-16-doe-spanner-4018754019908.html


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I think that everyone is missing the obvious, I have three routers with MUSCLECHUCKS and I finger tightened them and the first time the router is used it self tightens!


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

:surprise::smile:huh, silly old me, reading the instructions again


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Instructions????? Whats That? A piece of paper W/printing only an ant can read , in 6 different languages,with Chinese grammar.

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

harrysin said:


> I think that everyone is missing the obvious, I have three routers with MUSCLECHUCKS and I finger tightened them and the first time the router is used it self tightens!


That was my mistake too, I assumed I had to wrench it on and I wound up loosening off quite a bit to get it to run true.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Instructions????? Whats That? A piece of paper W/printing only an ant can read , in 6 different languages,with Chinese grammar.
> 
> Herb


Youre dead on there. with the chuck was a piece of paper about 4" square that was written by the same man who engraved the entire works of shakespeare on a pin head.

Luckily, the UK supplier has a couple of brain cells, and supplied an A4 sheet copy. Even then the whole A4 was filled.

I moved it twice to reduce vibration. I think its right now but havent used it on a proper project yet.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have 2 of them in tables ,and have found that bits that I could tighten in regular chucks will not tighten in the Muscular one.

Just a few thousands smaller shank dia.is beyond the tolerances of the Musclechuck,but will work well in the factory collets.
Just saying, 
Herb


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I was surprised that a bit tightened up in the chuck when I tightened the lower nut up up. I thought it would only be the top screw that held the bit. I had to loosen it, take the bit out, and then gently tighten the nut again.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

sunnybob said:


> I was surprised that a bit tightened up in the chuck when I tightened the lower nut up up. I thought it would only be the top screw that held the bit. I had to loosen it, take the bit out, and then gently tighten the nut again.


Bob, I was lucky, i never had any vibration problem with either one. However I have read on this forum of several cases like yours. But I do use a speed control and start the bit at a very slow speed the first time out, then dial in the speed til it starts to vibrate ,then back off a touch.
Herb


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

The instructions (once youve read them) are very clear on how to reduce any vibration, just rotate the unit 45 degrees and retest untill it goes away.

First try and the router grumbled a lot. second try it was obviously quieter, 3 rd try and as far as I could tell it was normal noise. Once I get to actually cut with it i will see if any other adjustment is needed.
But I'm now firmly stuck in "grandad" mode with three under 10's to look after till september. cant let them in the workshop.


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## Nobodi (Oct 22, 2015)

> A true old english spanner (and lets face it, you cant get an older spanner than an english spanner)
> is one of these


Isn't that a German spanner though ?


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

yup, we taught them everything they know.:grin::grin:


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Just used the musclechuck for real.
Question for owners... is it noisier than without? There is a definite increase in volume, and the note is coarser than before.
But it cut fine.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> To make it even worse, this musclechuck nut measures 1"AF Which is stands for Across the Flats.
> 60 years ago when I first started using spanners on my motorcycles, I always though AF stood for American Fine thread, which just shows how screwed up things are.


I've never seen "AF" used in the US.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I was just as frustrated back 50 plus years ago Bob when I would need to work on either of the two BSA motorcycles I owned. Between an SAE set of wrenches and a metric set I could get it apart and back together again. Luckily the hammer struck impact wrench had already been invented as they used Phillips headed steel screws in an aluminum case and they were a bear to remove. I also have never heard the term across the flats used here when referring to a wrench size. 

The MC does make a different sound but I never paid much attention to it.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I owned many BSA motorcycles, at the peak I had 5 twins (500 and 650), all pre '63, mostly stored in pieces in my bedroom.

this was my 500 shooting star done up like a rocket gold star.
thats my nephew on the bikle. he was born in '65 so the pic must be '67 or '68.


https://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=372311&stc=1&d=1564327245


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

sunnybob said:


> Just used the musclechuck for real.
> Question for owners... is it noisier than without? There is a definite increase in volume, and the note is coarser than before.
> But it cut fine.


I never thought about that, of course I can't hear any thing anyway,and don't remember running it W/O a bit in it.

AF is new to me, but makes a lot of sense, as the size on the wrench is AF, not the dia. of the nut or the threads on the bolt. In fact there are bolts that take both 1/2"AF and 9/16" AF wrenches, if I remember correctly.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*It's Complicated*



RainMan 2.0 said:


> But then you gotta buy a metric and a standard one


Not to mention right and left hand sets.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

ger21 said:


> I've never seen "AF" used in the US.


Until now I too thought that AF stood for American fine, I just looked it up on Wikipedia to make sure!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

sunnybob said:


> I owned many BSA motorcycles, at the peak I had 5 twins (500 and 650), all pre '63, mostly stored in pieces in my bedroom.
> 
> this was my 500 shooting star done up like a rocket gold star.
> thats my nephew on the bikle. he was born in '65 so the pic must be '67 or '68.
> ...


I was only able to buy a 1934 250cc BSA at age 16 in 1950 for £25, My second one was a war surplus Enfield 350cc, after that I was married and it was four wheels since then.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The US sizes are *S A E*, Society of Automotive Engineers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_International


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

sunnybob said:


> Just used the musclechuck for real.
> Question for owners... is it noisier than without? There is a definite increase in volume, and the note is coarser than before.
> But it cut fine.


Could you be feeding it faster now?


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Harry, no. as soon as its turned on its louder and deeper note.
Soon as I get a chance i will turn it another 45 degrees and check.


I was a dedicated biker, if you see any old documentary films about the 59 club and late 60's mods and rockers, i knew most of the bikers. I only learnt to drive a car when I was 23, getting married, and got a new job driving a van BEFORE i had the licence! After that it was a succession of small commuter bikes, from 50 cc honda cubs to a 250 cc honda super dream. Then I finally went back to big bikes once the kids had all gone. I had to finally give up in 2014 when my thumbs went arthritic on me and I couldnt safely steer the weight anymore. 51 years all told, hit the deck over a dozen times, got a few scars on my legs, but never broke a bone.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

To all the folks who said that AF was not used in the USA, just realised something.
The musclechuck (made in the USA) states to use the 1" AF spanner in their instructions, so SOMEBODY uses AF over there.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Until now I too thought that AF stood for American fine, I just looked it up on Wikipedia to make sure!


That is NF &NC, I am familiar with that SAE designation.

I remember that auto batteries used to have a 1/2" (AF) wrench for the NEG, and a 9/16" (AF) for the POS terminal. The bolts were both 1/4" dia. ,I don't know if they still do.
HErb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

National Coarse and National Fine pitches. And pipe thread designations also start with an N for National such as NPT for tapered, NPS for straight, NPF for fuel approved threads, etc. UK is BSP, Britsh Standard Pipe. The North American standards come from the ANSI and ASME organizations.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I worked all my life with british sizes, and especially BSP. But then for 20 years I worked for a UK company that also imported American catering equipment for KFC and McDonalds. So I had to get another set of tools! NPT thread was used a lot.


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

I like to read all the posts because you often find a useful piece of information buried in them. Somehow, this thread got hijacked. In an attempt to get back on track ...

My Musclechuck was shipped with a 4 mm T-handle Allen wrench. I have found that the T-handle requires raising the router collet very high. Instead, I purchased a traditional Allen wrench (1"x4") and this works better for me.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

i actually like the T handle. The collet doesnt raise all the way up to allow level use but the T handle has a ball end so it works fine for me.

it was me that diverted the thread, but as it was me that started it, i didnt mind.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bfblack said:


> I like to read all the posts because you often find a useful piece of information buried in them. Somehow, this thread got hijacked. In an attempt to get back on track ...
> 
> My Musclechuck was shipped with a 4 mm T-handle Allen wrench. I have found that the T-handle requires raising the router collet very high. Instead, I purchased a traditional Allen wrench (1"x4") and this works better for me.


A ball-ended Allen key, preferably with a "T" handle is the ideal tool.


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

harrysin said:


> A ball-ended Allen key, preferably with a "T" handle is the ideal tool.


I too had switched to a ball end T-handle wrench shortly after purchasing my Muscle Chuck in 2018. However, a recent phone communication with the people at Muscle Chuck said they DO NOT recommend a ball end wrench. There is a tendency for the ball end to "wallow out" the female receptacle.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

something mighty strange going on then. I just bought a musclechuck (made in USA) and it came with a BALL ended T handle allen key (also made in the USA)

Check out the pic in this link to ebay UK, and scroll over the pic to see the end of the key
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MuscleCh...rentrq:6308a21416c0abc068cd5f7dffe43a49|iid:1


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bfblack said:


> I too had switched to a ball end T-handle wrench shortly after purchasing my Muscle Chuck in 2018. However, a recent phone communication with the people at Muscle Chuck said they DO NOT recommend a ball end wrench. There is a tendency for the ball end to "wallow out" the female receptacle.


That's news to me and does't make sense, I too was supplied with a ball ended key but it was springy so I bought the one shown in my earlier post and it has given excellent service.


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