# Table saw extension and Incra LS system



## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

I am in the planning stage of building a router table as a table saw extension and was planning on using the table saw's fence but I am wondering about the Incra LS system. Wouldn't that system be better suited to a stand alone router table?

Bryan


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Many members have a router mounted in the saw wing but at some point you will want to use one without disturbing the other and won't be able to. If you have the room I always recommend keeping them separate.


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## oldwoodenshoe (Nov 28, 2011)

Bryan,

Many, if not most, router table saw extensions will come with a removable fence for the router. I have a Bench Dog cast iron extension on my table saw and it came with a fence for the router. As Chuck mentioned, there is an advantage to keeping them separate. In my case, I didn't have room, so this was a good solution for me. The advantage of the Table Saw extension is that it also give you a giant surface for both the TS and the Router.

The Incra LS fence is really designed for a router table. They also have a TS-LS system that is designed for a TS with a router extension. Then they have a Wonder Fence for use on the router. All of these are wonderful things, but really for the most part I think they are overkill.

Glenn


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Byran I am doing both . But not the dedicated Incra table saw fence that replaces the factory fence but a removable LS positioner that goes on the extention and can be removed if I don't use the factories table saws fence itself

Some members have mentioned that they find the table saws height to be uncomfortably low for routing.

I haven't installed it yet but here I am sizing it up



Gee what a frigging mess lol


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Wow, and Wow!*

Glenn, thanks for that TS-LS tip, I just watch the videos. I really like those combo options but I'll need to save some money first. I really don't have much room now.

Rainman1, I might just be playing it by ear a bit like you myself, thanks for the picture. I looked at the Incra router table you have but didn't see a size that fit
the depth (27") I'd need. I Love my Rigid contractor saw! I would love a better saw but I'm not there yet. I really am still a novice.

Thanks again guys.

Bryan


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

bryansong said:


> I am in the planning stage of building a router table as a table saw extension and was planning on using the table saw's fence but I am wondering about the Incra LS system. Wouldn't that system be better suited to a stand alone router table?
> 
> Bryan


Brian,
Technically the answer to your question is "yes". However, I have the LS 17 on my saw as well as the LS TS. The LS 17 is easily lifted off of the rails when I need to cut longer piece to the left of the blade as I recently had to do when trimming a lid for a cedar chest that is 43" wide. I have a stop in one of the rails that allows the base for the LS 17 to be put back in its' original position. I am happy with the arrangement but the ideal set up would be for a separate stand along router table.

So, if you go with adding the Incra LS system to your TS and later on want to build a separate table, well, you get my drift.

I need to give you a little boost and say my praises again to the Incra concept, you won't be sorry for buying it.

Let us know what you finally decide which way to go.

Jerry


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I have an LS25 on my router table. It requires a lot of extra space. With a table saw router wing mounted to the right of the saw, you might have to mount the LS "backwards". If you put the router wing to the left of the saw then you'd have the extra space. 

By the way, the LS is truly wonderful. After a little practice, I can now turn out perfect box and dove tail joints.

If you decide to use an LS with your TS wing, you might want to consider building a base for it that uses a couple of magswitches - that would make it super easy to put it on or take it off the saw. (assuming top is steel.)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

bryansong said:


> Glenn, thanks for that TS-LS tip, I just watch the videos. I really like those combo options but I'll need to save some money first. I really don't have much room now.
> 
> Rainman1, I might just be playing it by ear a bit like you myself, thanks for the picture. I looked at the Incra router table you have but didn't see a size that fit
> the depth (27") I'd need. I Love my Rigid contractor saw! I would love a better saw but I'm not there yet. I really am still a novice.
> ...


Ok I believe this one is 27" by 43" . In theory it could be turned around 180 degrees so that the LS positioner could be mounted on my right hand side of the table saw and not really in the way that much , but I want to route on the end of the table instead of leaning over in the middle . Tough call really . 
I would like a double router table but I don't have enough room so I want to mount one in my table saw plus build another seperate Incra router table .
Well that and I'd like a 4'/4' CNC router table . Not sure if I'll ever see that day though


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

RainMan1 said:


> Gee what a frigging mess lol


I was going to say "clean up on aisle, ah, aisle, ah... clean up on all aisles"
And a camera shot actually hides messes. In reality they are even worse than the picture.


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Rick- it's all good - you've got your helmet handy!
Dennis


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

rwl7532 said:


> I was going to say "clean up on aisle, ah, aisle, ah... clean up on all aisles"
> And a camera shot actually hides messes. In reality they are even worse than the picture.


I disagree as I swear the camera brings out the worst . I should have photoshopped the surroundings , or get off my butt and clean ? Naw I'm liking the photoshop idea better


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

That's the first sign, Rick!

Anyway, I have no delusions about my shop. Spent 3 hrs cleaning it yesterday, stood back to admire my work and realized I had AT LEAST 3 more hours to go. Could be days... I think I need a "clamp intervention".


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*My shop is a bit of a mess too.*

But back to the Incra TS-LS system- if I had a configuration like Rainman1's picture,
can I have the positioner facing left for the table saw then flip it 180° for the router?

My Table saw fence guide projects to the right of the saw. I guess if I had the new Incra system I'd be taking the Ridgid fence guide off then, I could put the router table on the left end of the saw.

Well, I'm not doing anything yet anyway, I've got a daughter getting married in October so I'm saving for that.

Glenn, like you, I don't have a lot of room now, and I do like the large work surface of the table saw. My saw has cast iron wing.

My original plan was to build the Stumpy Nubs Router lift drop in for the extension.
I found a big old Porter Cable router to use and even cut the wood for the box,lift as well as some high pressure laminate but now I'm not so sure that's the direction I really want to go.

Have to think about it.

Thanks, all of you,

Bryan

Bryan


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

bryansong said:


> But back to the Incra TS-LS system- if I had a configuration like Rainman1's picture,
> can I have the positioner facing left for the table saw then flip it 180° for the router?
> 
> My Table saw fence guide projects to the right of the saw. I guess if I had the new Incra system I'd be taking the Ridgid fence guide off then, I could put the router table on the left end of the saw.
> ...


Sorry for misdirecting your thread . Seems to be an issue I have lol .
Bryan in my case I was going to have a quick disconnect system for the fence like I seen in the pictures thread . I'll find it for you if I can . Brads got it refined


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

bryansong said:


> But back to the Incra TS-LS system- if I had a configuration like Rainman1's picture,
> can I have the positioner facing left for the table saw then flip it 180° for the router?
> 
> Bryan
> ...


Yes. The TS-LS comes with 2 pairs of bolts & t-nuts for exactly that purpose. Set one pair as a stop for the table saw configuration, another pair at the other end of the rails for router table. When it's time to change, loosen the 4 bolts for the carriage, lift off the carriage & positioner, (now find a place to set the carriage & positioner down because i forgot to lower the saw blade!!), flip and butt the carriage to the stop bolts, tighten carriage. Took longer to type than it is to do. 

Since you have until after the wedding--you may want to download the TS-LS owner's manual and read through the install a few times while looking at pictures of set-ups. Won't be as clear as when you are actually setting up your own (light bulbs kept clicking on for me), but it may help. That is a very flexible system. I've got the 32" on my table saw, and if i wanted i could shift the rails to get another 8" to 10" of rip, or add the long rails and another pair of bolts to be able to go 52" or more. For the layout of my shop, it would be great to have the router table to the left of the blade, but with a left-tilt saw the motor cover is in the way. with long rails, i could actually shift to the left 12", leaving 40" rip to the right of the blade and widen the extension on the left far enough to be able to add a router. That would be an excellent compromise for me--let how YOU work govern how to make the system work FOR YOU. 

Earl


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

"you may want to download the TS-LS owner's manual and read through the install a few times while looking at pictures of set-ups"

Thanks Earl, excellent idea, that's why I'm asking.

You guys have me thinking and asking myself what I really want. For years working on my home I just used a Sears
Job Site table saw so when I got a Rigid contractor saw I was just amazed at how 
good it was to have a nice fence. I can only imagine how nice it would be to have 
the TS-LS system.

Thanks!
Bryan


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I started with a Ryobi BT3000 in about 1994--pretty good saw for the money, but every cut had to be measured. Bought a Craftsman 21833 a little over 2 years ago and used the factory fence on that for 6 months or so, that fence may be similar to yours. Huge improvement, i only had to double check the cut with a tape measure and most of the time it was pretty close. The far end had a tendency to move a little also, not terrible but not consistent either. After adding the TS-LS, i still checked out of habit for a while. Now--only on occasion to be sure, or when i reset after changing blades (one disadvantage of a left-tilt saw, on a right tilt the right side of the blade is pretty much fixed in relation to the fence.)

Good luck!!

earl


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Earl, I'm not really sure what you are saying with the left tilt saw, I have a left tilt saw.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

bryansong said:


> Earl, I'm not really sure what you are saying with the left tilt saw, I have a left tilt saw.


Byran if your saw tilts to the left then the motor comes up under the right hand side of the saw. Meaning you must make sure your router does not end up in the way when you tilt your blade . But if it's mounted a ways out in the extention there shouldn't be any clearance issues.
Sorry if this isn't what's being referred to


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

bryansong said:


> Earl, I'm not really sure what you are saying with the left tilt saw, I have a left tilt saw.


On most left tilts, the blade mounts to the right (or fence) side of the arbor. So, changing from a thin kerf (.09375" or so thick) to full kerf (.125" or 1/8" thick) means having to reset the fence scale on most fences to to account for the blade being 1/32" closer to the fence. I normally use a Freud thin kerf to rip, so my main scale on the Incra is set to that. I also use a Forrest full kerf for cross cuts and an Amana 80 tooth for thin sheet goods--those blades are the same thickness to each other (near as i can measure), so i keep a second scale set for those blades so i don't have to zero out the fence for swapping blades. Just have to remember which scale to look at. 

On most right tilt saws, the blade mounts to the left of the arbor, so the side of the blade nearest the fence is pretty much always the same distance to the fence--but i sure don't like making bevel rips on a right tilt saw. I'll keep my lefty!!

earl


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

greenacres2 said:


> On most right tilt saws, the blade mounts to the left of the arbor, so the side of the blade nearest the fence is pretty much always the same distance to the fence--but i sure don't like making bevel rips on a right tilt saw. I'll keep my lefty!!
> 
> earl


That's interesting Earl , I never thought of it that way


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

I have the combo #1 on a right tilt saw. I just got it installed a week or so ago and I'm dying to make some dust. I'm waiting on a dust collector and the Incra Cleansweep before I mount my router. But I've checked it all out with a dial indicator and it does exactly what they say. It's got awesome build quality. If you want a router table as a saw extension you cant beat the Incra TS-LS combo. I'd post some pics but I don't have enough posts yet.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Earl, now I understand your explanation*

Earl,

That makes sense to me now and something I need to keep in mind when I change blades. So with the TS-LS series system I'll be able to adjust the zero or calibrate
my scale. I think I wrote that right.

Shadow writer,

Let's bounce back a few replies so you'll soon have enough to post those pictures.
How many does it take? 10?

Bryan


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

bryansong said:


> Earl,
> 
> That makes sense to me now and something I need to keep in mind when I change blades. So with the TS-LS series system I'll be able to adjust the zero or calibrate
> my scale. I think I wrote that right.
> ...


Yes you can recalibrate very easily. Once your blade is on just run the fence up to the edge of the blade, then slide the magnetic scale to zero. It's that easy.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

Okay I got my 10 in. Forgot it was that few.





One of the great things about the Incra system is that you can pretty much move the rails to where they suit you most. This is the "default" installation right out of their manual, but you could move them either way to get more area as you need, to add a longer router table for instance. 

I also wasn't aware that you can just flip the fence around to the other side of the blade until I was installing it and saw it in the manual. This is the 32" version, the 52" would be a monster! And it would pretty much require support legs at the ends of the rails.

My saw is a work in progress but it's getting close.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Shadowrider said:


> Yes you can recalibrate very easily. Once your blade is on just run the fence up to the edge of the blade, then slide the magnetic scale to zero. It's that easy.



Scott,

Yes, what you say is true, but, at least in my case, I still need to tweak the calibration after doing what you described. 

I set the carriage for example for a three inch cut and make a test cut. Then measure the result with a dial caliper. There will more than likely be some error. Next, using the micro adjust add or subtract what ever the error is and make another test cut. Repeat until the cut is within about .008" plus or minus of the three inch target. 

Then reset the magnetic scale to three inches. Of course, if one is not particular about how close one wants one's cuts to be and what you have described Scott will produce cuts accurate enough for most woodworking. I'm just saying that the Incra LS system is capable of finer accuracy if a person wants it. 

Jerry


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Scott, I love it, your saw setup looks Great!

Thank you for the pictures.

Bryan


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

If i recall correctly, the 52" system uses the 32" positioner, but the rails are longer. Set two stops to the right of the blade, one for 32" and the other for 52" ripping. But, as Scott pointed out, if you need more than 32" on the short rails--they can be shifted to the right. On my saw i can do 8" (for a 40" rip) with ease. 

Bryan, when you look at Scott's saw (right tilt), the right side of his blade is always in the same position relative to the fence. I have to callibrate slightly with a left tilt if i switch to a thicker blade. I can't post the pic from Incremental's site (INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence - 32" Range) but if you look at the "larger pictures", the second one shows four scales loaded at once. Second one from the bottom is the main scale (flexible steel, magnetic). I set that one to my rip blade, and keep a second (like the bottom in the pic) set to my cross cut blade. While i'm not the perfectionist that Jerry is, I went out tonight, set the fence at 25", ripped some 1/4" mdf. Moved to 22", cut the other sides. (panels for 3 easels i'm making) Ran some off-cuts at 4 1/2" for the tray bottoms--done. All measured dead on. I'll confess, i did check after the first cut on each setting. 

Nice stuff.

earl


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Scott,
> 
> Yes, what you say is true, but, at least in my case, I still need to tweak the calibration after doing what you described.
> 
> ...


Yes I could see that .008". There's going to be some amount of runout to any given blade and depending on which spot you use that would account for some of that. But I'd hope that it would be less than .008" though, if it's more than .005" I'd be looking at the blade or arbor.

It's funny, when I set mine for a test cut I took a cleanup pass on one side, then set it at 3". Flipped the board around and took the 3" cut. It measured 3.0015". I just smiled knowing I got lucky.

My background is being a machinist and I used my machinist square, dial indicators, etc. to dial this thing in very slowly and carefully. I was wanting to make precise cuts and knew this system was going to be the best bet for what I want which is machine tool performance. I know this isn't realistic for woodworking but that's the goal. I'm just ecstatic that it delivers what they say. I was expecting a few thousandths variation in repeatability when unlocking, moving the fence and then relocking. Nope. It goes right where you set it's zero even if you lock it down in other places, then bring it back to your original place. It's also pretty rigid for being made out of aluminum. It's just a quantum leap ahead of the old Craftsman table saw I'm coming off of and way beyond anything I ever thought I'd see on a piece of equipment for woodworking. I'm very pleased with it.

I did have one issue. The router plate they sent had .022" of bow in one corner and I couldn't find a happy medium that would be usable when leveling it up in the table with the jack screws. I put it face down on my granite counter top and used feeler gages to find out how much. I called up Incra and talked to Mark Mueller and he didn't hesitate to send out another. The replacement was dead flat on the counter top and I got it leveled up in about 5 minutes. So it was just a fluke that I got a bad one and that can happen with every company. They made it right without issue.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Great posts!*

Thanks a lot guys, now I've got Table Saw Router Table envy.

I think I'm a believer in the Incra products and have the HD miter as well as the Box joint jig myself.

I can hardly wait but really guys, thank you all for the great replies.
I appreciated it and enjoyed reading these post.

Bryan
Independence, Mo.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Shadowrider said:


> Yes I could see that .008". There's going to be some amount of runout to any given blade and depending on which spot you use that would account for some of that. But I'd hope that it would be less than .008" though, if it's more than .005" I'd be looking at the blade or arbor.
> 
> It's funny, when I set mine for a test cut I took a cleanup pass on one side, then set it at 3". Flipped the board around and took the 3" cut. It measured 3.0015". I just smiled knowing I got lucky.
> 
> ...



Brian,
Sounds like you are doing well with your set up, I'd like for you to try a test. Make five separate cute with the fence set in the same place of course and let me know how much variation you get in the five cuts. I'm happy if the variation is plus or minius .008", since you are a machinist, I 'm pretty sure that you will wring out the best possible with the Incra system.

I sort of got politely rassed for trying to get so close when working with wood, and I do understand what the people were telling me about wood not be condusive to such toloerances, but I have been intrigued by the Incra LS TS system and just wanted to see what could be accomplished with it, so if you will, let me know what you get.

Jerry


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