# New Thread On Shooting Block



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

The other thread on this subject was getting a little long. I have a some questions about the "Shooting Block" that I'd like to ask of members and maybe more specifically Niville. First is the idea of the Shoot Block a manner of increasing the accuracy of the angle on a 45 degree cut, or is it to improve the surface area where the glue is applied and the bonding of the two parts come together. My first thinking is that a true 45 degree cut can indeed by made with a saw. If, and say if, the cut is really a perfect 45 degree cut than the value of the shooting block has nothing to do with improving the angle of the cut. That leaves the issue of the condition of the surface of the end grain that is to be bonded together with the glue up. There is one other possible issue and that is, I think, the face of the workpiece that is right at the edge of the cut where the saw might not cut so clean that the top edge of the cut is not as clean as it might be, but would could out when sanded.

What I am saying, if one just excepts that the shooting block creates a better joint, that is not a satisfactory answer, the question is "Why Is It Better", that's what I want to know. I say why based on my believ that a true 45 can be cut, and that the survaces of the end grain should not be a big issue if the angle is correct.???????


Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry, I think Neville was mainly saying that sawcut surfaces were rougher in texture than planed surfaces and that the planed surfaces would make a finer joint (smoother, tighter, with a finer joint line). With the equipment you have I don't think you could improve much on the accuracy of the miter. A planed or sanded joint will actually be weaker than a sawcut one of equal accuracy because planing or sanding closes the pores in the wood preventing the glue from soaking into the grain as deeply.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Jerry, I think Neville was mainly saying that sawcut surfaces were rougher in texture than planed surfaces and that the planed surfaces would make a finer joint (smoother, tighter, with a finer joint line). With the equipment you have I don't think you could improve much on the accuracy of the miter. A planed or sanded joint will actually be weaker than a sawcut one of equal accuracy because planing or sanding closes the pores in the wood preventing the glue from soaking into the grain as deeply.


Charles,
One other question, I can understand the shooting block on a workpiece such as parts for a picture frame, but what about a jewelry box that is mitered on the corners but, say, four inchs high. The mitered surfaces are much greater than the width of the plane????

Jerry


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I can understand the shooting block on a workpiece such as parts for a picture frame, but what about a jewelry box that is mitered on the corners but, say, four inchs high. The mitered surfaces are much greater than the width of the plane????


Jerry, for that application you'll want to build yourself a shooting board like this;


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

cagenuts said:


> Jerry, for that application you'll want to build yourself a shooting board like this;


What tool do you use to make the shooting block, if you have a tool that will let youmake the shooting block, you don't need the shooting block as I see it.

Jerry


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> What tool do you use to make the shooting block, if you have a tool that will let youmake the shooting block, you don't need the shooting block as I see it.


Jerry, you're missing the point of a shooting board. It's not to _make_ cuts but to refine them. 

I certainly don't want to snug up on a cut using the table saw when I can safely do this using a hand plane on a shooting board.

Some use a belt sander and this is also a lot less terrifying than trying to take off 1/32" with a 10" saw blade.

How it is built is immaterial.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

cagenuts said:


> Jerry, you're missing the point of a shooting board. It's not to _make_ cuts but to refine them.
> 
> I certainly don't want to snug up on a cut using the table saw when I can safely do this using a hand plane on a shooting board.
> 
> ...



HILTON,
With all due respect, I have never had the idea that you create the cut on the shooting board, I don't know why you keep thinking that I have that idea. No big deal, I just keep contending that if you if you have the tools to create a shooting board, you don't need a shooting board. I know that I am wrong about about this i because high end woodworkers swear by them, I'm just asking where I am wrong as I don't see it yet, sorry that I am so dense on these matters. 

Jerry

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

The light went on, I see the folly of my thinking in regard to building a shooting block. I see that the accuracy of the block is dictated by making the ends of the angled parts on top of the block flush with the edge of the block, took me a bit to see it.

Also, I'm not certain that there is such a thing as a really perfect 45 degree cut. One way to check might be tor try this. Suppose that one does everything one can do to create four workpieces of the exact same length and cut at exactly 45 degrees, buy exacatly I mean the best that we have the ability to cut. Then glue the first two parts together so that the joint looks really really good, just perfect tight and as good as possible. After the glue has set, do the second joint the same way and after the glue hs set do the same thing with the third joint. No2 you have three perfect mitered joints. Now check and see if the last joint is a perfect as are the first three and if it is not, then the cuts were not as perfect as you thought they were. I know that in the real world most of us glue all four joints at the same time abd spread that error out to some extent and any error is so slight that it does not matter, but if Neville were doing the cutting, that fourth joint would be as good as the the first one and the four sided parts would not give you a hint of a mitered joint except for the difference in the grain where the joints exist. That kind of work is what I think Neville is talking about and capable of executing. Whatever he does is the right way, whether or not I understand or agree, his work speaks to his understanding of the issue and for one except that as truth and just wish that I had the skil and/or ability to duplicate it.

Jerry

Jerry


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## Jakexp (Apr 26, 2013)

Hi Jerry, by the sounds of it you have never used a shooting board before and your comments are based on your assumptions. Find someone who uses them and ask for a go. 

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.


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## Fraise (May 19, 2012)

Jakexp said:


> Hi Jerry, by the sounds of it you have never used a shooting board before and your comments are based on your assumptions. Find someone who uses them and ask for a go.
> 
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.


I love the last line. Maybe using a mitre board is quite demanding to begin. Perhaps the original writer would be best served to start with a normal square shooting board and master that first. The point is that with a well set plane you can reduce a pice of wood across the grain 1 thou at a time, something no saw can do. Professional framers use guillotines for the same effect.

How to Make and use a Shooting Board » Chris Tribe Furniture courses - Woodwork courses for all abilities. gives instructions on making a simple shooting board for a tryout
Best
John


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hey guys (or girls), Just last night Joy and I were watching a TV show where a guy had tattoos all over his arms, neck, face, scalp, etc. It reminded me of back in the hippie generation when you would see a VW van literally covered with bumper stickers. Anyway, I told Joy; "I am not against tattoos - I just haven't decided what I want mine to say". She laughed and said she is in the "same boat".


Jake's line:



> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is.


just may be what I want [tattoo'd] across my forehead!

Thanks Jake! You have made my day!
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Oh yeah - one other thing...Hilton, my friend - that is one fine-looking shooting board you have there!

Other guys: Don't mess with Hilton! Have you seen his motorcycle? <haha>

Otis


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Jake is absolutely correct, I had never even heard of a shooting board until recently yet along used one. Until there is a need or something most people don't look for a solution for a problem that they don't that they have. As constantly stated by myself in this thread, I have just been so satisfied with my present set up that I just merrily went along until I had an occasion to meet Neville and he sent me photos of his work which just blew me away. He introduced me to he term "Shooting Block Or Board" and my mind went into gear and I started anyalizing things which, at least in my case, can be a dangerous thing to do. This thread in itself testifies to that truth doesn't it. Anyway, I need to get with the program and make one and buy a plane, by the way, nobody has suggested what plane I should buy and how to sharpen it, I suspect that it would worthless unless kept razor sharp.

Jerry


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I posted on the "other" post but my post was just me trying to be funny.

The way and reasons I've seen SBs used is truing up for parts made by hand tool guys as part of their normal part bldg process. I have also seen power tool guys use them to take very small amounts off parts to fit perfectly. A plane can take a hundredth off for a fine fit. No saw can do that consistently. ...but a saw can certainly cut a clean 90 or 45 degree but if that baby is 100th to thick or long you can place it on the SB, line it up perfect and scrub away fearlessly.

It does sound like someone said you can't get a true 45 from a saw. Blah to that.. I got $5k worth of equipment that says I can.... Hmmmmm - maybe I should of just made a shooting board.

Love ya Jerry and don't stop askin till you get your answer! ;-)


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Hey, I'm really not trying to be cute, I am just so ignorant about so many things that I just have to ask questions about what I read and don't understand. In this case, after reading the part on how to make a shooting board it left me wondering. The author stated that the top board had be made to be "PERFECTLY SQUARE". My mind is forced to ask the question, if he the shooting board is made so that one can create a perfectly square end on a workpiece and can do it in order to construct a shooting board, why does one need the darned thing in the first place. To me this is a perfectly legitiment question, but I will be the first to admit that sometimes, in fact quite often, in my case, I over think things and this may well be one of those times, can somebody explain it to me.

Jerry


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Haha. Yep I'm with ya. I don't think that is what a shooting board is for and if you can make a part to make that part you have already succeeded in making the part.

It possible though that the process of making that first perfect piece was so horrible that he never wanted to go through that again and thus turned that part into a shooting board. Hahaha And then told the rest of us we are silly to try making a true 45 wo a SB.

Obviously this person has experienced some sort of emotional break and maybe it would be best to just let him slide.

I know I can be a little silly but I mean it when I say keep asking till you get your answer. I always feel dirty when I walk away from someone's answer saying "oh I get it now" when I didn't really get it. So I admire those that keep going after their answers.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Jake is absolutely correct, I had never even heard of a shooting board until recently yet along used one. Until there is a need or something most people don't look for a solution for a problem that they don't that they have. As constantly stated by myself in this thread, I have just been so satisfied with my present set up that I just merrily went along until I had an occasion to meet Neville and he sent me photos of his work which just blew me away. He introduced me to he term "Shooting Block Or Board" and my mind went into gear and I started anyalizing things which, at least in my case, can be a dangerous thing to do. This thread in itself testifies to that truth doesn't it. Anyway, I need to get with the program and make one and buy a plane, by the way, nobody has suggested what plane I should buy and how to sharpen it, I suspect that it would worthless unless kept razor sharp.
> 
> Jerry


I did make suggestions for the plane and sharpening method back in the other thread Jerry. The sharpening tools I suggested work. I quit sharpening when I can effortlessly shave the hair off the back of my hand.


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## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

After the first discussion on this I happened across a Wood Whisper video on a wood worker convention of some sort. Some really nice stuff, if you are having trouble finding a place to spend your money. Shooting Board Demo (about 6:37) was nice. That board and plane look great but I know it is not in my future.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I did make suggestions for the plane and sharpening method back in the other thread Jerry. The sharpening tools I suggested work. I quit sharpening when I can effortlessly shave the hair off the back of my hand.


Charles,
Now I am going to just have to be embarrassed. Once a thread does not show up in th New Post list, I don't know how to find it, so what you said about a pland and sharpening it, I must have missed and now I don't know how to find it. So, I know that I must look a little foolish again, but I suspect that I'm not the only member that has had this problem, I have tried to find old threads and have not been able to find a specific one, I find old threads, but they are never the one I'm looking for.

Jerry


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

david_de said:


> After the first discussion on this I happened across a Wood Whisper video on a wood worker convention of some sort. Some really nice stuff, if you are having trouble finding a place to spend your money. Shooting Board Demo (about 6:37) was nice. That board and plane look great but I know it is not in my future.


That was a great shooting board demo and a well designed product that is way out my league on both a price and skill level. :yes4:


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## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

Gaffboat said:


> That was a great shooting board demo and a well designed product that is way out my league on both a price and skill level. :yes4:


Exactly what I was thinking. I am going to keep an eye on Craigslist. You never know, one might show up. :lol:


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

david_de said:


> After the first discussion on this I happened across a Wood Whisper video on a wood worker convention of some sort. Shooting Board Demo (about 6:37) was nice. That board and plane look great but I know it is not in my future.


This is exactly the video I was about to send a link to Jerry. I have that Veritas shooting plane and it's pretty awesome to say the least.

Otis, that's not my shooting board, I just needed a pic for Jerry. It's from Alf's website.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Charles,
> Now I am going to just have to be embarrassed. Once a thread does not show up in th New Post list, I don't know how to find it, so what you said about a pland and sharpening it, I must have missed and now I don't know how to find it. So, I know that I must look a little foolish again, but I suspect that I'm not the only member that has had this problem, I have tried to find old threads and have not been able to find a specific one, I find old threads, but they are never the one I'm looking for.
> 
> Jerry


I had to think for a minute how to find it to and there is probably a better method but if you type "shooting board" into the Community Search this thread will be first and your last thread will be next.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I had to think for a minute how to find it to and there is probably a better method but if you type "shooting board" into the Community Search this thread will be first and your last thread will be next.




Thanks Charles,
Once I really needed to to find it I figured out how to do it, don't remember right now what I did, but it was pretty easy,

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

That was a great video. Lots of cool stuff I wish I had. haha


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> Jerry, you're missing the point of a shooting board. It's not to _make_ cuts but to refine them.
> 
> I certainly don't want to snug up on a cut using the table saw when I can safely do this using a hand plane on a shooting board.
> 
> ...


Hilton thanks for posting the image of this very nicely made shooting board, I will add it to my photo collection, your comments are also correct and exactly to the point, 'shooting boards are made to refine the joint' that is very true, Neville


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Fraise said:


> I love the last line. Maybe using a mitre board is quite demanding to begin. Perhaps the original writer would be best served to start with a normal square shooting board and master that first. The point is that with a well set plane you can reduce a pice of wood across the grain 1 thou at a time, something no saw can do. Professional framers use guillotines for the same effect.
> 
> How to Make and use a Shooting Board » Chris Tribe Furniture courses - Woodwork courses for all abilities. gives instructions on making a simple shooting board for a tryout
> Best
> John


Your link has improved the conversation. I have saved it in my link folder. Neville


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

OPG3 said:


> Hey guys (or girls), Just last night Joy and I were watching a TV show where a guy had tattoos all over his arms, neck, face, scalp, etc. It reminded me of back in the hippie generation when you would see a VW van literally covered with bumper stickers. Anyway, I told Joy; "I am not against tattoos - I just haven't decided what I want mine to say". She laughed and said she is in the "same boat".
> 
> 
> Jake's line:
> ...


Otis when you get it done them can you leave some space between your eyes and your hair line that says;

"I also ride a Harley"

best regards Neville


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> This is exactly the video I was about to send a link to Jerry. I have that Veritas shooting plane and it's pretty awesome to say the least.
> 
> Otis, that's not my shooting board, I just needed a pic for Jerry. It's from Alf's website.


Hilton I will watch the video all the way through when I can so thanks for posting that link, Damn that is a nice shooting plane and I wish that I owned that one. Neville


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Funny thing happened to me this weekend. I started a finger jointed box (space left between joints to add a little walnut spacer to set off the oak.

Silly thing after milling, total went weird after relieved. I assembled it anyway, since I was really just goofing off and trying a new thing.

Wobbly piece of scrap - Perhaps putting those parts through a shooting board after the relieved might have fixed the wobble.


Sure couldn't have hurt. haha


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

cagenuts said:


> Jerry, for that application you'll want to build yourself a shooting board like this;


Hilton,

I really like your shooting board! Looks like it takes a board up to about 18". But how are you securing a narrower board and keeping it from slipping while planing the board edge? Clamps?

Do you have a plan for it? I'd be interested in building one like this. My present one is really simple and was thrown together when I built it years ago. If there are not any plans, some rough dimensions and/or some additional photos from different angles would be helpful to duplicate it. 

Bill


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