# 40mm Guides for Templates + more



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Now you and I can used the 40mm template guide that Harry/Tom is always talking about, by just making your own to fit your router base plate with the brass/steel guides.


Offset Rings are made to be use with Template Tom's and HarrySin plunge router templates/patterns or your own templates.


1-3/4" counterbore insert, or any 1-1/2" through bore base plate with a 1-3/4" counterbore, to follow the outline of a pattern. 
The router bit protrudes through the hole in the center of the offset guide(s) with the side of the guide bearing against the edge of the template.

These brass guides are attached using the threaded brass ring nut. 
Only one ring nut is necessary, regardless of the number of template guides

The sizes given are the outside diameter followed by the inside diameter. 
The 7/16" guide fits most dovetail jigs and will accept a 1/2" dovetail bit. For use on templates at least 1/4" thick.

Brass Guide - 3/4"OD x 5/8"ID
Brss Guide - 1"OD x 7/8"ID
Brass Guide - 1-1/2"OD x 1-3/8"ID

Get the brass guides from Lee Valley or Oak-Park 

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=41778&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=BG-BGST-&product=BG034

Router Tables Base plates below
http://www.oak-park.com/bsplguide.html
http://www.oak-park.com/bsplguide.html#197

The black Oak-Park 11" x 11" sq. base in the snapshot below is for the Hitachi 3 1/4hp router that I drilled out so I could also mount Porter Cable type routers as well...the router you see in the snapshot is a PC 19.2 volt battery type router.
The other router base plates are some I have made is the sq. 8" x 8" x 1/4" ABS it will take on the PC guides, the round base plate in the snapshot will take on the 1 3/4" brass guides ,it's 9" round x 1/4" thick mouse pad that I had in the shop and just drilled the holes so I could put it to work in the wood shop...
The little round white round spots (in the snapshot below) are made just in case you cut/ream the center hole out to much,,, .050 or more, the double sided carpet tape will hold the OffSet rings in place so they don't drop off the base plates...
They are to put on and easy to take off  made with a auto type gasket punch....

The Offset Rings are listed below, most are in the Metric sizes and are listed by the I.D. & O.D. of the rings.

1 1/2" I.D 
50mm
60mm
70mm
80mm
85mm
90mm
100mm

1" I.D.
30mm
40mm
50mm
43mm
45mm
50mm
60mm
70mm

3/4" I.D. ( .750 " )
1 1/8"
1 1/4"
1 1/2"
1 3/4"
2"
2 1/8"
2 1/4"
2 1/2"
2 3/4"



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Template Tom
http://www.routerforums.com/guide-bushings-templates/1741-introduction-use-template-guides.html

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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just more snapshots below
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The last 5 snapshots are of rings that will let you use the 1 3/4" and the PC 1 3/16" type brass guides in the Oak-Park without the need to buy a new base plate from Oak-Park just to use the brass guides, you need to make a lip ring to support the rings that is just a bit smaller than the hole in the Oak-Park base plate 3 1/8" (lip ring should be about 2 7/8" ID) But this little trick/tip will save you about 40.oo dollars....for a new base plate 

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http://www.routerforums.com/48768-post6.html

http://www.routerforums.com/introductions/5195-eazis1952.html

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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

BJ, can you go into more detail on how you made the offset rings?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj., you sure have been busy, there's no doubt in my mind that when you make a decision, you go full steam ahead. I think even Tom will be envious of the huge range of template guides that you now have. We must now go to stage two, you need a few metric straight cutters because it becomes even worse attempting to mix metric guides with imperial cutters, but having said that, there are occasions when a combination of the two will create an exact size. A 6,10 and 12mm cutter would be a good start. Once you have these it will be time for stage three, making a template/s and proceeding to plunge rout a project, possibly a French balloon clock as shown in my competition entry. It's obvious not only from my own observations but from posted feedback that you're woodworking knowledge and practical abilities are beyond question and so I feel sure that you could be the catalyst required to influence the forums worldwide audience. I'm sure that you won't mind if I email these posts to Template Tom, I know that it will make his holiday even more pleasurable. By the way I forgot to mention what a good job you did on those adaptors.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

They are easy to make but a drill press is needed..

Start with clamping the plastic to the drill press with some scrap stock under the plastic,,, then popin the circle cutter/hole saw and set it for the size you want to make, drill down into the plastic about 1/2 the way and stop and remove the circle cutter then popin the forstner bit you to use, then drill the center hole out, once the center hole is drilled out, popin the circle cutter and cut out the ring,,, take care when it's almost done with the cut, it's free at that point and will pickup just a bit,,,,the hole saw will just lift the plug and then it can be just push out...of the hole saw...

Now it's time to get them true,,, make a 1 1/2" or 1" or 3/4" plug with a 1/4" hole in it,,, this plug will be used on the (little jig in the snapshot) on the belt sander,,,,,this will get the OD true,, then it comes time to get the ID true,,, this is the hard part because you don't want to take off to much,, the forstner bit will cut it true but because it's plastic you will have some tips that need to be removed with care, they may need to be remove b/4 using the centering plugs ....BUT with Care.....a small drum sanding works well for this job....

I made the plugs out of MDF stock, Go and No Go type...they must be dead on....

Forstner Bit 
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/forset1.htm#8_forst_set_anchor

Circle Cutter w/ Fine Adjustment
http://www.grizzly.com/products/h7538

Hole Saws for the small ones....

Hope this helps,,, easy items to make but they do take some time....
hope this helps someone that wants to make some....


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Mike said:


> BJ, can you go into more detail on how you made the offset rings?


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Bob,

Thanks for the info...I'm a believer, your sanding jig was one of my first, and it quickly became one my most used jigs  

Now I just have to buy one of those big base plates from oak-park


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You'er Welcome Greg

The sanding jig is a easy one to make and it one the best jigs I have in the shop and I also use it all the time ,,,toy wheels,knobs,etc.

I was lucky I got the base plate from Bob N. for FREE along with a the Oak-Pak vac. setup for it.... and I just hung it on the wall ,then I said lets put it to work with Tom''s and Harry template way of making boxes,etc., I'm not into the sleds yet the 11" sq. base should work fine but time will tell.... 

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj., I've only just read how you made the discs and must confess that it surprised me. Over the years I've made many acrylic type discs for my router tables using a circle cutting jig, which is fast, safe,simple and accurate. running the router at relatively low speed has never caused a melting problem but it does create a snow storm, wife,partner,friend or neighbour standing by with a vac. hose is a good idea.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I have many router bits made just for plastic but most gull up and melt the plastic.... ;( ABS is the pitts....most of the time...acrylic OK most of the time..the one that's real nasty is poly...

The circle cutting just works best for me...  it's like making a ring that is 1" ID with a 1 3/16" OD that an be just a bit nasty because of the heat build up..I tried it on the lathe and still had the heat error....

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harrysin said:


> Bj., I've only just read how you made the discs and must confess that it surprised me. Over the years I've made many acrylic type discs for my router tables using a circle cutting jig, which is fast, safe,simple and accurate. running the router at relatively low speed has never caused a melting problem but it does create a snow storm, wife,partner,friend or neighbour standing by with a vac. hose is a good idea.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

You have to be using the wrong material Bj. because I have routed and turned Acrylic TYPE material for years with no problems other than lots of snow like swarf. Routing of course gives a perfect circle with no clean-up required. The reason that I don't know what materials I have used over the years is that like the timber that I use, most is given to me by friends and friends of friends! Why not give it another try Bj.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

OK, I will give it a try BUT Only after you show me one You made one that is 
1 1/2" ID x 50mm OD or a 1" ID x 40mm OD or a 3/4" ID x 40mm OD that can be used by many members that have the PC or the Oak-Park type brass guides that we can get and use in the states.... 

PLEASE post a snapshot after you got the job done,,,,I will be waiting 
and what you used to made it/them 




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harrysin said:


> You have to be using the wrong material Bj. because I have routed and turned Acrylic TYPE material for years with no problems other than lots of snow like swarf. Routing of course gives a perfect circle with no clean-up required. The reason that I don't know what materials I have used over the years is that like the timber that I use, most is given to me by friends and friends of friends! Why not give it another try Bj.


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

Bj,Harry,Tom?, For quite some time I have been reading Toms (and more recently Harrys) posts on the use of template guides with great interest. Because this is something I want to learn more about and incorporate into my projects. But I thought the advantage of the large guides was more clearance for "swarf" removal. And the ability for the collet to protrude into the guide. So what is the advantage of the large guide if it still has the smaller inside diameter?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Rusty

This just my take on it,,,  you can just use so big of a bit in a PLUNGE router,the 1 1/2" ID of the Oak-Park brass guides will let you use up to a 1" dia. bit safe and with the bigger guides or offset rings will let you move away from the template/pattern so you can make the item bigger or smaller with the guides.........the real plus is the ones with the big hole in them so the collet nut will go down just a bit more into the stock without the need of a 
Router Extension collet shaft like the one below.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/router_collet.html

If you note many of the router bit Mfg. tell you to only use this bit on a router table and is not made to be used by a hand/plunge router...it's not safe.....

When you have a 2" dia. bit that's spining at 10,ooo RPM on a plunge router and it starts to cut the stock you best have both hands on the router...lets say a cove bit for just one of many....

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RustyW said:


> Bj,Harry,Tom?, For quite some time I have been reading Toms (and more recently Harrys) posts on the use of template guides with great interest. Because this is something I want to learn more about and incorporate into my projects. But I thought the advantage of the large guides was more clearance for "swarf" removal. And the ability for the collet to protrude into the guide. So what is the advantage of the large guide if it still has the smaller inside diameter?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> I have many router bits made just for plastic but most gull up and melt the plastic.... ;( ABS is the pitts....most of the time...acrylic OK most of the time..the one that's real nasty is poly...
> 
> ...


Bj.,There is no way that I would attempt to rout the very small ones, as I mentioned, I have over the years made lots of zero clearance inserts for the router tables that I have owned and NEVER had a melting problem. Using a template guide with a small opening defeats the purpose of using large guides, some of the reasons are, the colett will fit through the guide, giving greater depth of cut without resorting to an extension, also it is possible to see what is happening and don't forget that the sawdust does not compact in the guide which causes heat build up and shorter cutter life. Tom talks about the 40mm guide but if we were imperial, he would probably talk about 1.5" guides which will do the job nicely. All my sleeved guides start life as either a 30 or 40mm
one and up to now I have made metal sleeves in the lathe. The Acrylic table inserts were all routed on the outside, put in the lathe and the centre hole bored to the required dia. The reason that I mentioned routing them was I wondered what the concentricity would be like sanding the circumference, I in no way intended to denigrate the great job that you did.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Making 6" dia. ones duck soup with a router bit, but I'm always looking for new way to do things  like making a offset ring that's 1" ID x 1 1/4" OD is trickey,,, and I said great Harry has a new way of doing that with a PLUNGE router,the heat build up on that one is nasty ,anyway you do it, it will almost turn it into a pretzel 

I got that one done but the next time it will be made out of brass on the lathe...

0-FLUTE STRAIGHT ROUTER BITS
Primarily for routing plastics 
http://woodworkersworld.net/plastic_straight_router_bit_bits.shtml

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Bj., I'm not sure what you meant by 6", the inserts that I showed were 2 3/4" and 
3 1/4". Let's face it, not everyone has a lathe, but those of us who do have a distinct advantage over those who don't. The more ideas that we all throw about, the more interesting the forum becomes. I still feel that there are not enough photo-shoots posted showing the actual making of the project, I'm not suggesting that we all show our mistakes, although on reflection it might not be a bad idea so long as the fix was also shown. Keep up you're good work Bj.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Bob,

based on my limited experience, the real advantage of the larger 1-1/2" guide is when you're using the SMALLER diameter profile cutters because you can get more than an inch of additional depth with your plunge router (or at least I can on my PC 890)…this really helps to get you past the template and to the work piece while still keeping a safe amount of the cutter shank in the router collet. 

I saw that MLCS has their ¼”radius ovolo bits on sale for $7.95 with free shipping (item# 6474)
MLCS Ovolo bit (you need to scroll down to almost the bottom of the page)

….this bit and a 3/8” straight bit should be all that’s needed along with the brass guides and the 50mm offset ring if anyone wants to try the picture frame example that Tom included in his “Introduction to template guides” post.

Tom's "Intro to tmplate guides" 

The diameter of the mlcs ovolo bit is a little bigger than the bit in Tom's example, so you would just have to add 10mm or 3/8” to the guide and template dimensions: 

The template inside dimensions would change to 8-1/8”x 6-1/8”

Use the ovolo bit and 1-1/2” brass guide with 50mm offset ring for the face profile cut 

Use the 3/8”straight bit and a 1-1/2” brass guide for the glass and photo recess

Use the 3/8”straight bit and a 1” brass guide bushing for the recess for the backing











bobj3 said:


> HI Rusty
> 
> This just my take on it,,,  you can just use so big of a bit in a PLUNGE router,the 1 1/2" ID of the Oak-Park brass guides will let you use up to a 1" dia. bit safe and with the bigger guides or offset rings will let you move away from the template/pattern so you can make the item bigger or smaller with the guides.........the real plus is the ones with the big hole in them so the collet nut will go down just a bit more into the stock without the need of a
> Router Extension collet shaft like the one below.
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg


Thanks 

I almost always just use one bit to make picture frames, it will do it all in one pass of the bit on the router table 

Picture Frame Rabbet Bits
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_pictr.html#pfram_rab_anchor


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks Bob  ...that specialized rabbet bit looks pretty neat, but I'm still trying to build up a decent collection of router bits right now, so I'm just pretty much sticking to the ones that I can use for a lot of different situations  

plus I really like the idea of keeping my hands a foot away from the cutter and having the work piece fully secure when I make that cut  



bobj3 said:


> Hi Greg
> 
> 
> Thanks
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

I got to come back to you on that one ,,,  Your Foot ???

Do you stand on the router table ???? or put the project on the floor ???

That's what makes the picture frame neat it only tates one pass and one setup...
on the router table...

Plus it's safe way of doing the job with the zero fence insert 


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

HI Bob,

 a foot = 12 inches or 30.48cm    

...I do use my feet sometimes with my saw, but I haven't used them (yet) with my router  


I don't see how you can use the router table fence with that bit to make the rabbet cuts on the picture frame in Tom's example...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

Do you mean the picture frame below from Tom's PDF file (see below)

All I do is about the same as you would do when you put in a base plate in your router table ( you know the one you said I will use it one time and then trash can it or just hang it on the wall now you get it out and make just the right size picture frames ), just cut out the center part then drop the frame on the router table and use the picture frame bit on the inside of the frame and it's done quick and easy then put on a out side edge on the frame if it called for on the router table.

You can use the safety pin but I don't I just go into it with a light touch until the bearing is riding on the inside edge.... then go all the way around on the inside of the frame...  keeping the cutter on the right side of the router bit that's to say the frame is on the right side of the bit and I'm pushing the stock into the cutter all the time..pushing the stock away from me all the time..



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gregW said:


> HI Bob,
> 
> a foot = 12 inches or 30.48cm
> 
> ...


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Yes Bob, that's the frame I'm talking about...making it Tom's way you cut out the center opening and route the beading profile at the same time with the same template. When you flip the frame over you use the same template and just change the guide bushing diameter and cutter, and when you cut the rabbet it completes the center cutout, and the waste piece floats free  ...It's still only three passes around the template with the router, but you do have to flip the workpiece once  

the point I was trying to make is that I feel like I have a lot more control when I'm running my router around the template with the guide bushings than I would running the small narrow picture frame around a bearing guided bit in the table, especially a 2 inch diameter router bit...

your example using the router plate template is a good one...a lot of people have actually used the template to install their router table inserts, so they should realize how it would be hard to mess up the part or their fingers using the template to guide the router 






bobj3 said:


> Hi Greg
> 
> Do you mean the picture frame below from Tom's PDF file (see below)
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

Out of all the picture frames I have made I may had made only one that was a made from one piece of wood and that was a small one , it's hard to get stock that's wider than 12", I have made one or two with glue ups but they all had end grain showing that I didn't care for...so I just about always use the miter way....the norm is a 8" x 11' picture in a 10" x 14" OD frame and many are bigger the norm...

Not to talk about the waste of wide boards on a picture frame.... 




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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I can see that it's going to be a difficult job persuading you that there is more than one way to skin a cat, in fact you have used those exact words Bj. As Greg has pointed out, using Tom's methods DOES give greater control and there is no chance of finger damage.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Harry I'm coming around to using the template way and the 40mm guides, of doing things but not for picture frames  it would be a difficult job persuading me on that one... 

skining a cat is one thing but making something backwards with the end grain showing,,,,,well 


Bj 


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harrysin said:


> I can see that it's going to be a difficult job persuading you that there is more than one way to skin a cat, in fact you have used those exact words Bj. As Greg has pointed out, using Tom's methods DOES give greater control and there is no chance of finger damage.


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> . . .
> skining a cat is one thing but making something backwards with the end grain showing,,,,,well


I'm with Bob on this -

I don't have the background to have an opinion on the root subject of this debate -- and I dont know any of the people involved -- 
But I have framed a MESS of pictures, cross-stitch pieces, posters ad infinitum.
99.9% of the time the process has involved 4 seperate pieces of wood and 90% of those have been mitered. A few times the user wanted a rustic look and let the pieces overlap in the corners.

I can only recall a couple of times when I was actually asked to do a solid wood piece with a hole hollowed out for the picture(s). They wanted a lot of flat space around the picture(s) to decorate. Frankly - to me these are more - plaques - than picture frames.
The only other place I can see me using this technique would be circle or oval frames.

BUT - that's just me - and the folks I deal with -- 
As always -- the bottom line to me is -- 
the 'best' system is the one that works best --- for you.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj. so far all the frames that I have made by routing have been veneered MDF which can look very pretty. As for you not changing you're mind on this one, all I can say is that I can be very patient! I'm sure that curiosity if nothing else will eventually make you give it a try.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

"veneered MDF" = ?????

I don't have any black velvet pictures of Elvis or Dogs plays cards,etc. that I can put in a frame like that.   
"changing you're mind" = I don't think so   LOL 

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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

..I don't think that anyone said that ALL picture frames should be made using this method  

the frame in the example was sized for a 5x7 photo and the suggested material was MDF...it was just a simple, quick and easy project that Tom used to show how you can use the same template and a varity of different cutters and bushings to perform the required cuts on a project  

the project helped me to get a better understanding of calculating the various offsets when using the templates and bushings, so I just pointed out that the bit was on sale for $8 if anyone else wanted to try Tom's project using the offset rings that Bj showed


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Greg has hit the nail square on the head. Tom's projects have only ever been intended to train woodworkers in his methods, and and once they are learned, give the student a thorough understanding of routing technology. It so happens that many of Tom's training projects happen to be very nice objects which I have given as presents that have been accepted with great joy.


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