# Routing Ceramic and Porcelain Tile



## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I bought a few samples today, various pieces of tile from Lowe's. I am going to mount a couple of different bits into my router and see if I can successfully route patterns, letters, and such into floor tiles. Always experimenting ... :nerd:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I hope you haven't tried that yet. Carbide will shatter on ceramic and porcelain and throw chunks at very high speed and possibly throw chunks of the floor tiles too. Those materials usually require a diamond cutter and water coolant and may require a much slower speed depending on the cutter. (Think about a tile cutting saw as an example)


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

What Charles said. 

I have worked with a lot of tile over the years . If you want to get artistic get one of these:
Revolution XT Ring Saw from Gemini Saw Co.

I have one of these as well as the smaller glass saw, the Taurus 3
Its a great saw but a little pricey

If you want to try routing tile make yourself a nice urn first as you will probably need it.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I expected to use a slow router. Mine is variable speed, and with an external router speed controller, I can really slow it down. The tile could be in a pan, under water to help wash away chips. The bit would be a diamond tip bit used for etching glass.

Thank you for the advice though. I will certainly be careful!


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

mimac said:


> What Charles said.
> 
> I have worked with a lot of tile over the years . If you want to get artistic get one of these:
> Revolution XT Ring Saw from Gemini Saw Co.
> ...


I am not looking to cut through the tile. I only want to etch the surface. Think "tombstones."

I may experiment with a mini-sandblaster, using the CNC table to guide a narrow stream of sand to etch the tile.

What about using an engraving pen and barely touching the surface? Would that chip away the surface and leave the rest of the tile intact, or would it break the tile into pieces? I guess I'll find out!


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Is there an acid that will etch the surface of a ceramic or porcelain tile? Hydrochloric acid, maybe? Battery acid?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Joe Jones said:


> I bought a few samples today, various pieces of tile from Lowe's. I am going to mount a couple of different bits into my router and see if I can successfully route patterns, letters, and such into floor tiles. Always experimenting ... :nerd:


that's a not such a good plan...
please make sure your medical ins is paid up....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Possibly hydroflouric will, it's used to etch glass. The fumes from glass are toxic. Many people who etch glass use sand blasting instead. 

If you try etching with a machine and bit wear googles and a face shield. There may be a possibility of stresses in the surface from vibration or uneven heating that could cause chips to fly from the surface. Should you happen to hit a resonant frequency the whole tile could explode.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Joe Jones said:


> I am not looking to cut through the tile. I only want to etch the surface. Think "tombstones."
> 
> I may experiment with a mini-sandblaster, using the CNC table to guide a narrow stream of sand to etch the tile.
> 
> What about using an engraving pen and barely touching the surface? Would that chip away the surface and leave the rest of the tile intact, or would it break the tile into pieces? I guess I'll find out!


water and an an electric router...
another ''not such a good plan''...
second the need for a urn...

you may get to where you want to go w/ glass etching cream....
goggle is your friend...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

CNC laser


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> CNC laser


heat...
spot concentrated heat will crack the tiles...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

They sell glass etching supplies at most hobby stores.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

I have owned a very successful ceramic business in the past. Many times in the past, I have began businesses and gotten them up-and-running profitably and smoothly and then sell the business. These businesses are usually sold to employees or customers that were "Doubting Thomases" prior to my "sticking my neck out". *The info you have been provided by fellow members is spot-on.*
Here are a few math formulas: 
Carbide + glass = bad, Carbide + ceramic = terrible, Electricity + water = deadly, Electricity + cloudy water = EXTRA DEADLY.
All of these, as you see; add up to poor choices.
A good choice (if the resources are available) is to mold the impressions into said ceramic tiles. Make some extras, because breakage is a high reality when dealing with ceramics.

Good luck,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Keith Hodges (Apr 30, 2013)

I do granite floor tiles, ceramic tiles should be the same. I use my diamond drag bit for engraving. The router is turned off, only used to hold the bit while it is engraving. There is very little dust created since the bit is basically scratching the surface. I do spray just a spritz or two of water on the surface for lubrication. Not enough dust to worry about. If your going to try with a router cutting into them, good luck, a laser would be better.


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## stevenrf (Jul 30, 2010)

I have read all the sensible, informative replies and I wouldn't try this with my router; too much can go wrong. 

I did relief with my cnc that turned out okay but there was a learning curve and a few failed attempts.
Heed all the good advice; watch the speed and the dust problem.

I would recommend a CNC to do it.

Just be REALLY, REALLY careful if you try.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

You can use diamond without water, they just don't last as long and generate a crap ton more heat. I have a diamond blade on a circular saw that has never seen water, it's a cheapo HF blade that I bought because I didn't know if it would work well enough. It's still cutting as good as new after a bunch of cuts on tile and concrete landscape blocks. It can be done, the question is how long will it take? If you start heating the tile you best give it a break to cool off. It may not be feasible on a time basis but if you can find the right bits it will work. What are you planning on doing for sealer?

Whatever you do use all applicable PPE including a respirator and some heavy leather gloves. When that ceramic breaks the little shards are flat moving and no telling where they are going.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> CNC laser


I have been looking for a good, powerful laser that I can attach to my carriage and gantry. I don't see the need to buy an independent laser engraving machine, when I already have software that can create cut paths, and a CNC machine that is accurate enough to accomplish my goals.

I have not been able to find a company that will sell me a laser and any associated paraphernalia, without selling me the whole machine with proprietary software.

Can you suggest a source for a good laser that I can buy, independent of an entire system?


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

All of this was just a thought. I am now looking into sandblasting options for tile, glass and rock, etc. 

AGAIN, companies want to sell me the entire system, but I already have a CNC machine that can cut mat material, and create the designs. I am currently looking at the SCM stuff. Interesting website, but I have nothing to compare it to, so I don't know if it is reasonable, or obscenely priced for what you get.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I operated an SCM beam saw in a cabinet factory. Beautiful machine. They told me it was worth $105,000. I don't think they make junk.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I am not sure we are talking about the same *SCM.*

SCM Systems


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Joe; ...router _is _ the wrong tool, but you're on the right track...
I remember watching glass engraving being demonstrated at a dept. store back in the '50s.
5 Essential Beginners Glass Engraving Tools
Diamond Burrs
Dremel Projects and Community Projects Detail
Dremel Projects and Community Projects Detail
A die grinder should work just fine. Or the Dremel tool in the links above.
I think the standard N. American shank size is 1/8" (?).
http://www.amazon.com/DIAMOND-Ceramics-Glass-Lapidary-ROTARY/dp/B0012DLA3U
All tile glaze is is a layer of melted glass on vitrified clay. Porcelain tile is just a better quality of clay burnt at a higher temp; stronger and more brittle when it shatters...in most instances highly unlikely. It's tough stuff.
The one thing you_ do_ want to be extremely cautious about is silica dust from the grinding process. Stuffs bad news.
The dangers of breathing silica dust | WorkSafe Bulletin | WorkSafeBC


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I am mainly interested in the various capabilities of my Samson 510 CNC table that do NOT involve plasma cutting.* I will experiment with lots of things, airbrush, sandblasting, router bits, wire wheels, grinding wheels, ink and paint pens, scribes, engraving pens, etc.

I don't have much interest in hand etching or grinding anything. In the words of Dirty Harry,_ "A man's got to know his limitations!"_


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Fair enough, but glass engraving needs either abrasion by diamond or other specified abrasive but _not cutting_ (unless of course you actually want to scribe and snap the glass).


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Fair enough, but glass engraving needs either abrasion by diamond or other specified abrasive but _not cutting_ (unless of course you actually want to scribe and snap the glass).


Right, Danin. I understand that. I bought the tiles, thinking I could chuck up a small grinding stone into the collet and set my router to say ... 300 RPM ??? and allow the gantry to "drift" the router over a piece of tile to score the surface to carve a pattern into the glaze by cutting into the tile glaze .005" or so. 

I wasn't going to go at a ceramic tile at 30,000 RPM with a three-fluted carbide bit. I am adventurous, but I'm not CRAZY! :no:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

... what's a little excitement now and then!

Seems like there's a lot of good/bad experiences out there!
Best bit for engraving on ceramic tile?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I threw the question out to my machinist, dog walking buddy, and he tells me that he's done some glazed tile engraving in the past. He'd used both a large water cooled diamond blade (4' dia!) and a Dremel type rotary tool.
He recommended using a ball end diamond burr, at whatever speed the Dremel runs at.
He also pointed out that if the tile will be exposed to moisture the cut surface needs to be resealed. That reminded me of the occasional problem we've had in the past with moisture coming through the back of cheap tile, and creating fog behind the glaze.


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## wynpotter (Mar 26, 2015)

In the real world, I'm a potter. I make both flat tiles as well as vases, mugs,etc. I think you need to develop a working relationship with a potter who can explain the tile making process.
Short answer is; for you to make a negative of what you want, press moist clay into it then fire, glaze(which is a glass coating) and fire again. If you want to do one off's it's going to take more steps than you are aware of presently.
Hope this helps.
Wyndham


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

In different words, wynpotter told you basically the same thing as me. Make or have a mold made (plaster of Paris is cheap stuff). The reflection of what you desire as your impression will be elevated above the face/bottom. Cast slip or force clay, do a bit of edging and cleanup, fire in a kiln, glaze the tile and fire it in a kiln again. It would not require a rocket scientist to do this process and have the design to be glazed in a different color.
Personally, I am heavily involved in Product Development. Someone other than me is now in the process of developing glass and ceramic scalpels for surgical procedures. Ceramics are also already commonly available in knives and other highly specialized uses. Technically, we have been informed that glass / ceramics can be sharpened to a sharpness 6 times finer than metal blades. Purportedly, the edges stay sharp longer!

PS Here in my neck of the woods, there are a handful of small ceramic shops that could quite likely build these for you inexpensively! Check in your local yellow pages, as many of the people do not utilize the internet; heck some don't even have teeth!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Otis; I think Joe was interested more in experimenting with different finishes, methods and media than in a specific one-off pattern. You _could_ farm that out but where's the fun in _that_?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Joe posed the question..*."Can you suggest a source for a good laser that I can buy, independent of an entire system?*"
Nobody has an answer?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

!...Otis; you're back!! 
Feeling a lot better I hope(?).
Sorry; it took awhile for the penny to drop.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Joe Jones.

Are you having some kind of problem? Why are you mixing so dangerous materials and processess? Be careful my friend.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Possibly hydroflouric will, it's used to etch glass. The fumes from glass are toxic. Many people who etch glass use sand blasting instead.
> 
> If you try etching with a machine and bit wear googles and a face shield. There may be a possibility of stresses in the surface from vibration or uneven heating that could cause chips to fly from the surface. Should you happen to hit a resonant frequency the whole tile could explode.


I am reading this for the first time. I was bored and catching up on posts I hadn't read. 

Please, please, be very careful using Hydrofluoric acid! It is extremely dangerous and easily absorbed into the skin. It will eat clear to the bone marrow and it is not easily stopped. It is very nasty stuff and not to be used by someone with no experience.

Bill


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Agreed. It is one of the strongest of acids. It calls for full length rubber apron, rubber boots, googles and face shield, and good ventilation.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Agreed. It is one of the strongest of acids. It calls for full length rubber apron, rubber boots, googles and face shield, and good ventilation.


and you need a permit to buy it...


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

papasombre said:


> Hi, Joe Jones.
> 
> Are you having some kind of problem? Why are you mixing so dangerous materials and processess? Be careful my friend.


No. I am just pushing the envelope. :wink:

I was that kid down the street that mixed various household chemicals together to see what would happen. I was the kid who played with matches, and used food coloring and bread pans to make very colorful ice igloos during the freezing Chicago winters, and the kid who accidentally set my bedroom on fire when I made a BIG electromagnet out of a large combination wrench and a spool of household wire. (I learned the difference between DC current and AC current _that_ day :crying: )

I like to experiment, and I have the scars to prove it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I like to experiment, and I have the scars to prove it." Words to live by...or somethin'


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

After the fact I noticed no face-shield or goggles...

How do these guys hang on to their jobs?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> After the fact I noticed no face-shield or goggles...
> 
> How do these guys hang on to their jobs?


there must be some kind of special protection for the stupid...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

The shirt was my first clue...


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