# Building cordless drill / air nailer shelf



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

*Building cordless drill , air nailer storage cabinet .*

Guys I really liked Mikes shelf that he built to hold his drills and air nailers . I have gotten my own version started but I am changing it up a bit as I am putting two shallow drawers underneath to hold all the differant air nails and screw driver bits .

So I did rabbet joints on the lower and top pieces , and dadoed a slot for the middle piece .In this pic the bottom is to the left and the top to the right , just to avoid confusion .
It hasn't been glued yet as I have more slots to dado in .


My mistake is I really should have done the rabbets on the sides as now I'm going to have one hell of a time dadoing 1/4" slots on the upper and lower parts to put dividers in and get the measurements even because the top and middle sections are differant lengths when disassembled. 
Originally I was going to rabbet the sides but I couldn't afford to loose any height as I cut them to short .
This is how it sits . The narrow part is the bottom for the drawers 



I still have to dado in the slot to add a divider between the drawers , which is still going to be a careful cut because of them being differant lengths .

I'm thinking that because it's going to be a pain to dado in all the upper and lower slots for 1/4 dividers that maybe I should go with 1/2" dividers instead and install them with pocket screws . This way all I need is a spacer to hold each vertical divider and just screw them in . That's assuming there's enough room for the drill to install the pocket screws which I believe there will be


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Actually I just had another thought . Instead of using a dado blade on the table saw to make the slots for the dividers , assemble the cabinet and then use my router to make the slots . All I would need is a spacer for the router to sit against and guide it

Sure as heck it will get away on me though


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Should be an easy workaround Rick. Make a spacer the width of the difference between the shelf width and the cabinet bottom width at one side. Make a dado on the shelf bottom referenced to the fence, then use the spacer between the shelf and the fence to account for the offset. Use your miter gauge and make the corresponding dado in the shelf bottom. Move fence and repeat.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Should be an easy workaround Rick. Make a spacer the width of the difference between the shelf width and the cabinet bottom width at one side. Make a dado on the shelf bottom referenced to the fence, then use the spacer between the shelf and the fence to account for the offset. Use your miter gauge and make the corresponding dado in the shelf bottom. Move fence and repeat.


Thanks Jeff as that's a good idea 

I can hardly wait to complete this . I'm really looking forward to having a place where I can always find air nails and screw driver bits . I'm going to make some half lap dividers inside the drawers and fill it with all the common lengths of air nails . I bought a husky plastic tool box but it didn't like the weight of the air nails and kinda bent


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

I'm right behind you Rick, I can't wait to get this project started in my shop and I really like what you've done so far. Every little mistake you make now, I won't have to repeat when I start mine. Now I've just got to re-surface 300sq' of deck, build a carport over the 12x24 pad that was poured behind my garage today, and it's on to laying down french cleats. Bet I'm done before your insulation is in:grin:


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

You're still teaching me Rick! Thanks.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rick, if you lay your boards on a bench you can line them up and use a straight edge to make your dadoes with your router. Imagine getting a tip like that on a website like this; what is the world coming to?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mike said:


> Rick, if you lay your boards on a bench you can line them up and use a straight edge to make your dadoes with your router. Imagine getting a tip like that on a website like this; what is the world coming to?


Mike I have Festool track to but I bought the wrong parts and I can't get the router to attach to it yet . I know I don't need track but I want to try it onetime .
I'm going to use the TS for now I think


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

It's getting very good! Rick. congrats
Sid


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Rick, 

If there's enough distance between the top and shelf for your router, adding the grooves for the dividers is easy as long as the back isn't permanently attached yet (I'm assuming this from your post). Make an accurate T-Square out of a couple of scraps, set the base against the edge of a scrap board and rout through the end - this will give you an exact location for the groove and, as you're using (I think) 1/4" hardboard, a standard 1/4" bit will work. Lay out the location of the dividers on the top and shelf, set the T-Square in place with the edge of the slot lined up with the mark, clamp the end so it doesn't move and rout your slot. With no back in the cabinet, you can flip the T-Square end for end and rout from either side as you get close to the sides. As far as the dividers for the drawers in the lower area, make a block of the appropriate width, slide the divider up against it to fix the location and nail it in place - it's just a shop cabinet, a little glue and some finish nails is all you need. All my original shop wall cabinets are built with the tops,, bottoms and shelves glued into dadoes/rabbets and held with narrow crown staples and they've held up for 20+ years - wish I'd put adjustable shelves in them now but that's another story. Mostly use pocket holes now but still use dadoes and staples for a cabinet that's a little unwieldy.

Tom


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

These 2 simple boxes hold my remaining roofers and sidewall guns. As time passed and fewer roofs and siding jobs came in I sold one of each. They went into the boxes and my shop around 06 when I averaged a roof or sidewall job a yr. 

See the little white dot on the roofer's inlet? I wish I could remember where I got them, (maybe the repair shop); each gun had a crap cap. Outside of doing many of my own repairs I believe they were the main reason I had such low and few repair bills. Most of the caps had rings that prevented them from getting lost until they broke and got lost. If the gun wasn't hosed the cap was on, before the gun got hosed the hose was popped to release any crap in the female connector. These guns were bought between 1985 and 87, I used both recently reroofing my porch and sidewall repair above the new roof, 30 yrs ain't bad.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

tomp913 said:


> ......... held with narrow crown staples ........


Thanks Tom, I'm looking to make one of these as I now have a need, and I had totally forgotten the staples my nailer can put in even though I move them every time I reach for the brads! That's a blonde moment


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Rick,
> 
> If there's enough distance between the top and shelf for your router, adding the grooves for the dividers is easy as long as the back isn't permanently attached yet (I'm assuming this from your post). Make an accurate T-Square out of a couple of scraps, set the base against the edge of a scrap board and rout through the end - this will give you an exact location for the groove and, as you're using (I think) 1/4" hardboard, a standard 1/4" bit will work. Lay out the location of the dividers on the top and shelf, set the T-Square in place with the edge of the slot lined up with the mark, clamp the end so it doesn't move and rout your slot. With no back in the cabinet, you can flip the T-Square end for end and rout from either side as you get close to the sides. As far as the dividers for the drawers in the lower area, make a block of the appropriate width, slide the divider up against it to fix the location and nail it in place - it's just a shop cabinet, a little glue and some finish nails is all you need. All my original shop wall cabinets are built with the tops,, bottoms and shelves glued into dadoes/rabbets and held with narrow crown staples and they've held up for 20+ years - wish I'd put adjustable shelves in them now but that's another story. Mostly use pocket holes now but still use dadoes and staples for a cabinet that's a little unwieldy.
> 
> Tom


Tom nothing is glued yet , it's just propped up to see how it all fits so it shouldn't be to hard to do on the TS . I think pocket screws would work too but I like the idea of dadoing slots for 1/4" dividers


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom nothing is glued yet , it's just propped up to see how it all fits so it shouldn't be to hard to do on the TS . I think pocket screws would work too but I like the idea of dadoing slots for 1/4" dividers


If the cabinet is not glued, clamp it square and layout lines in the top and shelf for the 1/4" dadoes, this way they will line up. For just a 1/4" deep dado, it might be an idea to cut extra slots closer together so that you can move the dividers to suit any change in your storage requirements - easier now than finding that the new super-duper whatever that you just bought is 1/8" wider than the divider spacing. Slots on 1" or 1-1/2" centers would give you flexibility for the future without being overkill. Use the router and T-Square, and you can use it to cut dadoes for the drawer divider - same procedure, put layout lines on both edges, carry them over to the face and cut the dado in two passes.

Tom


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rick, I think it is time for you to build an exact width dado jig. You have the need. Build it wide enough so both pieces of the cabinet will fit. Then all you do is make your dado cutting both sides at the same time.

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/49738-exact-width-dado-jig.html


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, I think it is time for you to build an exact width dado jig. You have the need. Build it wide enough so both pieces of the cabinet will fit. Then all you do is make your dado cutting both sides at the same time.
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/49738-exact-width-dado-jig.html


That's a pretty cool idea Mike . I may build one in the future when I have some extra time .

Guys I've got a concern . I read where a guy installed drawer guides and I never thought of this but if you put the screws in the same hole on each drawer the screws will hit each other .
I have to look at mine , but you would assume they have two screw holes side by side on each rail in order for this not to happen . Otherwise you'd have to stagger them


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I've got a concern . I read where a guy installed drawer guides and I never thought of this but if you put the screws in the same hole on each drawer the screws will hit each other .
> I have to look at mine , but you would assume they have two screw holes side by side on each rail in order for this not to happen . Otherwise you'd have to stagger them


I don't have any idea what you are talking about. What kind of drawer hardware are you using?


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Put the adjacent slides at different heights. Put a 1/4" shim on the floor of the cabinet and then a strip to set the slides at a specific height. Bolt the slides in to the sides, slide the drawer part and then the drawer, sitting on the 1/4" shim. Pull the drawer and it's slide partway out so you can get a couple of screws into the drawer. Then pull it all the way out and put the rest of the screws in - just use a different width strip for the second drawer. The photos show me installing the slides in the drill press cabinet - a different shim was used for the top two drawers so that the drawer fronts would all be the same height.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Good stuff Tom , thanks


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I screwed up on mitering slots for the spacers on the first attempt , so I abandoned that cabinet altogether and built another . 
But this time I did a rabbet joint on the sides as it helped with measuring up the middle for that spacer where the drawers go . 
This is the rear view . I mitered out the perimeter of the upper section for the 1/2 ply back to drop in , but I was going to leave the bottom open as there's drawers in there and I don't why they would need to be closed .

I must have spent over a half hour with my dado blade and for some reason I had one hell of a time getting it set for the 1/4 ply I have on the first cabinet , but It was either to tight and after I add a blade and use its full adjustment it ended up to loose . I'm going to use 1/2 ply instead and just use pocket holes . 
This isn't glued and screwed yet , just laying together . How I hate doing things twice


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> I don't have any idea what you are talking about. What kind of drawer hardware are you using?


Mike:
I think Rick is talking about the slides on his two side-by-side drawers, where they meet in the middle through that center brace, and is wondering about the screws hitting each other if they are placed in the same holes.

I think Tom had a solution to this, by adding a shim to one set of slides so that it is slightly higher than the other.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> Mike:
> I think Rick is talking about the slides on his two side-by-side drawers, where they meet in the middle through that center brace, and is wondering about the screws hitting each other if they are placed in the same holes.
> 
> I think Tom had a solution to this, by adding a shim to one set of slides so that it is slightly higher than the other.


Exactly . With multiple cabinets side by side I would have thought this would be an issue . I looked at my rails and there are extra hole options , but I think I'm going to install them at differant heights just to be safe

Well I got fueled up ,now it's back to the garage


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Exactly . With multiple cabinets side by side I would have thought this would be an issue . I looked at my rails and there are extra hole options , but I think I'm going to install them at differant heights just to be safe
> 
> Well I got fueled up ,now it's back to the garage


Rick,

I have to ask, why are you using drawer slides? The drawers are small enough not to need them. They are not going to get loaded with tons of weight, so why waste money on the slides. Just size the drawers to the opening and install some sort of drawer stop to keep from pulling the drawers all of the way out by accident.

Here is an example:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> I have to ask, why are you using drawer slides? The drawers are small enough not to need them. They are not going to get loaded with tons of weight, so why waste money on the slides. Just size the drawers to the opening and install some sort of drawer stop to keep from pulling the drawers all of the way out by accident.
> 
> Here is an example:


Bill that's a great question , and as a matter of fact I was laying in bed last night wondering about that very thing myself . Then I had to think about Ginger and Mary Ann to fall asleep again


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bill in reality the one drawer is going to have a lot of weight in it , as I'm going to store a lot of air nails in it of every length and gauge that my guns fit


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@schnewj...
something I picked up from making my plane rack...

make your dividers from S4S...
make the drawer bottom from ¼ pegboard...
insert a plastic ribbed collar ¼ anchor as required... (see picture)
clip off part of the lower end if they work out to be too long...
install #6 wood screws into the edges of the S4S one 1'' increment centers to act as studs......
plug the studded S4S into the anchors to be your dividers...

*Notes..*
1/8 PB can be used but the holes tear up easily and won't accept weight of any kind w/o sagging......
predrill the S4S to accept the screws..
ball end the heads of the screws and use pliers to insert the studs into the S4S..
the screws need to be 1¼ - 1¾'' long depending on how much you leave proud...
the ball end and smooth shank facilitate insertion into the anchors and any exposed threads add grip/holding...
leave at least ½ in protruding to a max of ¾ in...
better quality S4S begets thinner dividers..
add purloins in torsion box format to carry more weight if need be...

*Easy center finding...*
say the stock is ¼" thick...
put a ¼" forstner bit in the DP..
slide the fence up to the bit and lock it down...
presto... center of stock all done...
swap out bits to what you need to drill..
set the stock to the fence...
drill...
different thicknesses of material ???... use a forstner bit to match the diameter....


.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> @schnewj...
> something I picked up from making my plane rack...
> 
> make your dividers from S4S...
> ...



Cool idea Stick


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill in reality the one drawer is going to have a lot of weight in it , as I'm going to store a lot of air nails in it of every length and gauge that my guns fit


Another option is to leave the opening bare and install Akro bins of the appropriate size in there side by side. Put one or two lengths of nails in each bin, put a label on the front of the bin and you can pull out the correct bin when you're ready to use the nails - no drawers, no drawer slides, no worries as you'll only have the weight of the nails in any individual bin to worry about at the time. And it may help to keep the various nails/brads separated and easier to find rather than having to go through a whole drawer full of cardboard boxes every time. I'm planning to do something similar in my shop, except I'll be making an open box to attach to the bottom of my existing cabinets.

Tom


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Schnewj,

That's one slick looking box good job.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok thank god I'm not being paid by the job because I wouldn't have enough money to pay for my lunch. 
Anyways MT had a great idea and something I never would have implemented had he not showed his creation . 
I liked Mikes idea of removing some material away from the middle of the divider , so here I am measuring a guess of what to try 



So I jigsawed most of the material I needed to remove first then clamped the divider to a straight piece of mdf to act as a guide for a flush bit . I re clamped it to do the 45's , so I had to free hand it a bit because I was being lazy .




I had some tear out on the right so I thought maybe make more of a radiuse on the corners to make it look better 


So I used the finished divider as a template to make 6 more of itself 



So I thought instead of mitering in 1/4" slots to slide the dividers in I would try something differant . I air nailed a piece of 1/2" mdf top and bottom , then held the divider in tightly against it and added more mdf spacers . With this idea all you need to do is get a chisel and remove the mdf spacer and cut another to a differant size if you change the arrangement 


Which I had to do as I changed my mind a few times getting it right 


Guys I am very happy with the outcome so far . The dividers stay in extremely well just press fit. 
I did most of the openings 4" wide but I did two of them 4.5" wide for bigger tools . On the right is my electric stapler which I can rarely find . This is going to be worth all the effort. Just gotta find my other drills now lol 




So now it's off to the garage to make an attempt at the drawers


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@RainMan1

Rick - you're getting the hang of it - but that divider over the middle brace isn't centered - please fix it.

Just kidding - looking good


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> @RainMan1
> 
> Rick - you're getting the hang of it - but that divider over the middle brace isn't centered - please fix it.
> 
> Just kidding - looking good


lol , thanks Vince . It's starting to look like something


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill in reality the one drawer is going to have a lot of weight in it , as I'm going to store a lot of air nails in it of every length and gauge that my guns fit


How many nails are you going to horde? I keep a couple of boxes of 23ga in the different lengths. In the larger ga I keep a box or two of the different lengths, and a box of each size for the trim nailer. Altogether not all that much weight. I keep the smaller ga nails in a dollar store plastic container that is less then 6" x 6" x 5".

Now, if you are talking my framing nailer those nails are some weight. Then again, I'm not planning on storing them with my smaller nails in a drawer.

Do yourself a favor, weigh what you have and I think that you will be surprised that the weight is not what you think it is. As usual, Stick is giving you a pearl, all you have to do is listen.

No matter what way you decide to go, the slides are OVERKILL. There are a couple of better ways to go.

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> How many nails are you going to horde? I keep a couple of boxes of 23ga in the different lengths. In the larger ga I keep a box or two of the different lengths, and a box of each size for the trim nailer. Altogether not all that much weight. I keep the smaller ga nails in a dollar store plastic container that is less then 6" x 6" x 5".
> 
> Now, if you are talking my framing nailer those nails are some weight. Then again, I'm not planning on storing them with my smaller nails in a drawer.
> 
> ...


Your definitely right Bill . I'm not using the big nailer nails just the brads . I kinda have my heart set on the sliders though . I already bout 10" full extentions and am kinda hot and bothered to try them .

Now if my memory was better I wouldn't have to back to YouTube and see how he acquires his measurements for locking joints


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Excellent Rick. :dance3:

Now when ya doing the insulation so you can continue to make all these wonderful things for your shop through the winter?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Your definitely right Bill . I'm not using the big nailer nails just the brads . I kinda have my heart set on the sliders though . I already bout 10" full extentions and am kinda hot and bothered to try them .
> 
> Now if my memory was better I wouldn't have to back to YouTube and see how he acquires his measurements for locking joints


Take the 10" slides back and exchange them for longer slides for your bench drawers. If you use them on this it is nothing more then a waste of money.

Bill


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Just a thought about the drawers. Once you hang the unit on the wall will you be able to see in the drawers? Plastic divided boxes you can take down would be easier like Mike has under his rack.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Great progress Rick.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys has anyone gone postal installing drawers ? I can say I've been at it for hours tweaking and trying to figure out where I went wrong . It's ok but some odd reason the left side of the drawer wants to rest uneven when you shut it . Checked and the first thing that went and the drawer wasn't square , so I took it out and beat on it a bit till it was very close , but after removing the slides and relocating them nothing seems to work ? 
I'm debating to locate them back a little further because it's not an issue till they get to the area where they have a bit of resistance .

Tried a lock joint . It's not difficult and it was my first attempt and on the left you can see where I over shot it a few thousands . Not sure if this is more trouble than it's worth as in debating to back to rabbet joints 


I mitered the slot for the 1/4" bottom and although I thought there was a bit of play there wasn't a lot which made it tight putting together but I got it .
Sorry the lighting is bad as its late and the pics turned out poor but you get the idea 



I'm debating to move this back a 1/2" and see if it closes better so it doesn't meet resistance for that anti slam system 


This is the slider on the drawer . I think the distance to the front is correct 


Here it is closed . I have to build a front for it yet but I'm debating to build another one and see if it works better . I did make the opening a 1/16" bigger than neccesary , so maybe I should put a shim behind the track on the inside wall and see if it shuts better


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Take the 10" slides back and exchange them for longer slides for your bench drawers. If you use them on this it is nothing more then a waste of money.
> 
> Bill


I think there giving me more grief than it's worth , but I liked the idea that they give you a full extension . That was more or less why I liked the idea of using full extension drawer sliders.
But I'm just about ready to put the kibosh on them


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rick, the frame should be installed just shy of flush(1/16th) so that when the drawer closes it will pull flush to the cabinet front. You are going to add a false drawer front to each drawer, right?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, the frame should be installed just shy of flush(1/16th) so that when the drawer closes it will pull flush to the cabinet front. You are going to add a false drawer front to each drawer, right?


Yes I'm going to put a front on 

ok I'll try moving them ahead . Mike do you use #6 or #8 screws on the guides?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill which way would you recommend again , making them from wood ?
> I think there giving me more grief than it's worth , but I liked the idea that they give you a full extension . That was more or less why I liked the idea of using full extension drawer sliders


Rick,

Make the drawers an 1/8-3/16 narrower then the opening. Center the drawer in the opening and put a face on the front, (see my plane till photos). If you feel that you need to put some sort of a stop to keep from pulling it out. then install a stop.

The bottom of the drawers will ride on the 3/4 plywood bottom. I would wax them to make them slide easier if you want. 

As long as you don't go yanking the drawer out, all will be good. If you want to take the drawer to the job, all you have to do is remove and carry.

Since you have already made a drawer, remove the slides. You now have a drawer 1-1/16 narrower. add a ~7/16 piece on both sides of the opening. This will keep your drawer centered in the opening. Add a face and knob and your done.

If the drawer is crooked already it is still usable if you do the above.

Remember the discussion on "Find the Mistake"? What did I tell you, you'll kick yourself, and nobody will even notice the mistake.

Recover, Rick, recover. Think it through. Hide the mistake behind the drawer face, or make a new drawer. If it bothers you in the future, you can build a new one and reuse the face.

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> Make the drawers an 1/8-3/16 narrower then the opening. Center the drawer in the opening and put a face on the front, (see my plane till photos). If you feel that you need to put some sort of a stop to keep from pulling it out. then install a stop.
> 
> ...


Bill your right as it could just ride in the hole . It's no big deal making another drawer as I'm getting good at screwing it up lol . Seriously though there pretty easy if I didn't make the mitered area with such close tolerances for the bottom .

It wouldn't be difficult to make wooden guides if a guy wanted though too?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes I'm going to put a front on
> 
> ok I'll try moving them ahead . Mike do you use #6 or #8 screws on the guides?


I think they are #8. I will check tomorrow.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Rick,

All you need is for the drawer to ride between the sides of the opening. You can add a piece on the sides of the opening or on the drawer itself. They would keep the drawer centered. Ideally, I would just make another drawer if you have the material, or make it later.

Remember, wood moves. So, leave room for expansion on the sides and top, or the drawer will, at some point swell and stick. I shoot for 1/16-1/8 inch gap on either side and at least 1/8" between the top of the drawer and the top of the opening. Let the drawer ride on the bottom of the opening.

Bill


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I think I'd be using pocket screws and butt joints with glue if I really wanted it strong. It's a workshop drawer and doesn't need to look pretty. Once the cabinet is on the wall you'll not see in the drawers anyway unless you're ten feet tall.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

I think I seek I see the problem. You "beat on it a bit". Get a bigger hammer.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Ghidrah said:


> Schnewj,
> 
> That's one slick looking box good job.


Ron,

Thanks, it is the mate to this:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Roy Drake said:


> I think I seek I see the problem. You "beat on it a bit". Get a bigger hammer.


Well this morning it's about as square as square can be . I really think I should try another guide as it doesn't make sense . 
The guides can not be mounted any further ahead as the drawer just fully closed on the left now . I should just put a front on and see how it reacts .

The opening is 17" and I made the drawer 15 -15/16 wide in case it was to wide


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Ron,
> 
> Thanks, it is the mate to this:


more impressive work.. cool too..


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> I think they are #8. I will check tomorrow.


Yep, #8.
I use the truss head screws (right screw) to attach the drawer frame to the cabinet face frame. I use the screw on the left to attach the drawer frame to the cabinet and the slide to the drawer box.

Hope this helps.

Mike


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thank you Mike . At WP he said #6 and I thought they seemed to small .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> I think I'd be using pocket screws and butt joints with glue if I really wanted it strong. It's a workshop drawer and doesn't need to look pretty. Once the cabinet is on the wall you'll not see in the drawers anyway unless you're ten feet tall.


I didnt think pocket screws were that strong . I'm going to skip the lock joint on the next try and do a rabbet joint with drywall screw .

I'm thinking lock joints on my bigger work station drawers though


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> I didnt think pocket screws were that strong . I'm going to skip the lock joint on the next try and do a rabbet joint with drywall screw .
> 
> I'm thinking lock joints on my bigger work station drawers though


No, No, NO! Do not use drywall screws They do not have the right thread, or design for this kind of use. Use regular wood screws if you insist on going that way.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rick - *these* are the drawer slides I have been using. Note in the print, it says ...

"Recommended Screw: 0.FPC08* (screw not included)

When using the front hole on the cabinet member, for face frame applications, you must use a truss head screw (0.TPC08)."

The 08 designates the size.

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> I didnt think pocket screws were that strong . I'm going to skip the lock joint on the next try and do a rabbet joint with drywall screw .
> 
> I'm thinking lock joints on my bigger work station drawers though


Mike,

Rick was talking about using DW screws on a drawer build not on a slide installation.

If I remember not to many weeks ago Stick posted a link to the use of dry wall screws and why they have on real place in woodworking.

I'll admit, I do use them...to hold my Kreg pocket hole jig to a board, and that is it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Mike,
> 
> Rick was talking about using DW screws on a drawer build not on a slide installation.
> 
> ...


This thread is so confusing to me that I am just going to throw my hands up and go watch some cartoons on TV. >


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> This thread is so confusing to me that I am just going to throw my hands up and go watch some cartoons on TV. >


yes I'm all over the place . You don't think I call myself RainMan for nothing lol.

But thanks Mike . I went and bought proper screws for the slides 

I'm going to make another attempt at building that drawer and just do rabbet joints as its way easier on my brain to get the width figured out


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> I didnt think pocket screws were that strong . .......


You haven't looked at the furniture built using pocket hole screws on the kreg site have you. They are plenty strong enough, especially if you glue the joints too.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Rick, all this talk of insulation and such.....I think you have been hiding you light under a bushel. 

That is going along fine...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Putting fasteners in...doesn't matter what kind...perpendicular to the force which will be applied is far more secure than a diagonal fastener. 
There's only a shear load being applied in the first case. There isn't any outward force being applied to the drawer sides (or shouldn't be).
Glue and 16/18ga air nails aren't going to fail unless you attack the drawer with a sledge hammer. 
Once again this issue of folks not trusting modern glues rears its ugly head. 
You're more likely to cause damage running #8 wood screws into plywood endgrain, than achieve any added benefits.
Solid wood is maybe a slightly different story, but the principles are the same.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

> Glue and 16/18ga air nails aren't going to fail unless you attack the drawer with a sledge hammer.


+1

I know I have said it before. When I dismantled my old workbench (built in 1988), I had to beat the drawers apart with a 4lb sledge hammer. They were originally built by me using regular Elmers' glue, butt joints and finishing nails.

The glue pulled some of the plywood veneer apart when they finally came apart. I had clamps and tools in those drawers all that time with no joint failure of any kind. :smile:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Putting fasteners in...doesn't matter what kind...perpendicular to the force which will be applied is far more secure than a diagonal fastener.
> There's only a shear load being applied in the first case. There isn't any outward force being applied to the drawer sides (or shouldn't be).
> Glue and 16/18ga air nails aren't going to fail unless you attack the drawer with a sledge hammer.
> Once again this issue of folks not trusting modern glues rears its ugly head.
> ...


Dan I used 16 gauge air nails on assembly of the first drawer and locking rabbet joints .
Well plus tight bond 2 glue.
I think I'm going to start using tight bond 3 on the next one as I had a hard time squaring up the first attempt as the glue was taking to soon , especially since I had the bottom dadoed in to tight . 
With a locking rabbet joint I don't know if screws could be used to tell you the truth .

I thought it was mentioned here not to leave the bottom to loose when you dado a slot for it . I think glue should fix it if it's a little loose?


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Routing the dadoes sounds so easy a cave man could do it. :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Knothead47 said:


> Routing the dadoes sounds so easy a cave man could do it. :grin:


Sounds like a Festool add


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

The jury's still out on that line of thinking. The traditional wisdom was that the drawer bottom was supposed to be able to move slightly, with expansion and contraction from humidity.
If you load the drawer with 100# of stuff, you _know_ the bottom is going to move! 
As I've said before, one coat of polyurethane on the drawer interior and it's glued, intentionally or not.
Intentionally gluing it in just shouldn't be necessary. Whether it creates problems, who knows; I'm guessing not.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> The jury's still out on that line of thinking. The traditional wisdom was that the drawer bottom was supposed to be able to move slightly, with expansion and contraction from humidity.
> If you load the drawer with 100# of stuff, you _know_ the bottom is going to move!
> As I've said before, one coat of polyurethane on the drawer interior and it's glued, intentionally or not.
> *Intentionally gluing it in just shouldn't be necessary. Whether it creates problems, who knows; I'm guessing not*.


I've never glued the drawer bottom when using a slot. Any cross-grain glue up is going to cause a split when the drawer changes due to weather shifts. If you want to secure it, use a couple of brads.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> The jury's still out on that line of thinking. The traditional wisdom was that the drawer bottom was supposed to be able to move slightly, with expansion and contraction from humidity.
> If you load the drawer with 100# of stuff, you _know_ the bottom is going to move!
> As I've said before, one coat of polyurethane on the drawer interior and it's glued, intentionally or not.
> Intentionally gluing it in just shouldn't be necessary. Whether it creates problems, who knows; I'm guessing not.


I cut the back short . After the drawer is assembled I slide the bottom in and staple it to the back only.


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

As I said, Rainman is a god here. I could show the igloo I built in SW Oklahoma, it is 104 today, and not get 2 responses. He gets 7 pages on a cabinet I just built two of. I HAVE TO MEET THIS GUY.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

fire65 said:


> As I said, Rainman is a god here. I could show the igloo I built in SW Oklahoma, it is 104 today, and not get 2 responses. He gets 7 pages on a cabinet I just built two of. I HAVE TO MEET THIS GUY.


Clay: didn't you see @RainMan1 's avatar? He's the most interesting man in the world.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

fire65 said:


> As I said, Rainman is a god here. I could show the igloo I built in SW Oklahoma, it is 104 today, and not get 2 responses. He gets 7 pages on a cabinet I just built two of. I HAVE TO MEET THIS GUY.


Clay you crack me up :lol: 

But yes I am needy


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> The jury's still out on that line of thinking. The traditional wisdom was that the drawer bottom was supposed to be able to move slightly, with expansion and contraction from humidity.
> If you load the drawer with 100# of stuff, you _know_ the bottom is going to move!
> As I've said before, one coat of polyurethane on the drawer interior and it's glued, intentionally or not.
> Intentionally gluing it in just shouldn't be necessary. Whether it creates problems, who knows; I'm guessing not.


Ok I wasn't aware of not gluing the bottom of drawers .
You guys just posted this in time as I'm heading to the garage for a second attempt , and this time I'll leave a tiny bit more play for expansion and contraction , plus I won't glue it 
I'd actually like to make 2 drawers on the right hand side but there going to be really narrow top to bottom . Like about 2" tall each because there just for screw driver bits .
I guess I can always add a section underneith and install more drawers if need be .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fire65 said:


> He gets 7 pages on a cabinet I just built two of.


you could go into your setting and change the post count per page to 40 and then you'd have less than two pages...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

schnewj said:


> No, No, NO! Do not use drywall screws They do not have the right thread, or design for this kind of use. Use regular wood screws if you insist on going that way.


*See the attachment below*





DaninVan said:


> Putting fasteners in...doesn't matter what kind...perpendicular to the force which will be applied is far more secure than a diagonal fastener.
> There's only a shear load being applied in the first case. There isn't any outward force being applied to the drawer sides (or shouldn't be).
> Glue and 16/18ga air nails aren't going to fail unless you attack the drawer with a sledge hammer.
> Once again this issue of folks not trusting modern glues rears its ugly head.
> ...


*If you have a good glue surface, 23 ga nails are all that is needed. Once the glue dries it will not come apart easily*



DaninVan said:


> The jury's still out on that line of thinking. The traditional wisdom was that the drawer bottom was supposed to be able to move slightly, with expansion and contraction from humidity.
> If you load the drawer with 100# of stuff, you _know_ the bottom is going to move!
> As I've said before, one coat of polyurethane on the drawer interior and it's glued, intentionally or not.
> Intentionally gluing it in just shouldn't be necessary. Whether it creates problems, who knows; I'm guessing not.


*Dan is spot on! All wood moves, however, if you are using plywood it moves very little. I generally use 1/4" for heavy duty drawer bottoms. I allow for expansion but I add glue to the middle of the channels. This makes for a stronger drawer and still allows the plywood to expand if it ever does.*



RainMan1 said:


> Ok I wasn't aware of not gluing the bottom of drawers .
> You guys just posted this in time as I'm heading to the garage for a second attempt , and this time I'll leave a tiny bit more play for expansion and contraction , plus I won't glue it
> I'd actually like to make 2 drawers on the right hand side but there going to be really narrow top to bottom . Like about 2" tall each because there just for screw driver bits .
> I guess I can always add a section underneith and install more drawers if need be .


*For small drawers, again, I glue the whole bottom in. The expansion of a small plywood bottom is almost nonresistant. By gluing the bottoms in to makes the drawers stronger and less likely to rack or put apart. Just make sure you get the drawer square before the glue sets.*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

For folks without compressors/airnailers, casing or finish nails work just as well 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" are all you need.
All you're trying to do is reinforce the joint against the forces* generated by opening and closing the drawer.


_**in·er·tia *(ĭ-nûr′shə)
The tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest, or of a body in motion to continue moving in a straight line at a constant speed unless a force is applied to it. Mass is a measure of a body's inertia.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of Student Science, Second Edition. Copyright © 2014 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved._


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@schnewj...
good DW PDF...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> @schnewj...
> good DW PDF...


?????????? I thought I stole it from you! If this isn't one of yours I don't remember where I got it from. It was in my "goodies" folder and I can't take credit for it. However, I do agree with the points being made. DW screws have no place in woodworking other then to hold things temporarily.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> ?????????? I thought I stole it from you! If this isn't one of yours I don't remember where I got it from. It was in my "goodies" folder and I can't take credit for it. However, I do agree with the points being made. DW screws have no place in woodworking other then to hold things temporarily.


any PDF I attach is is available to anyone that wants to do anything they wish w/ them...

big *NO* on the temp fastening... breakage can still be issue...
run into a broken DW screw some time and get back to us on how well your blade fared...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> any PDF I attach is is available to anyone that wants to do anything they wish w/ them...
> 
> big *NO* on the temp fastening... breakage can still be issue...
> run into a broken DW screw some time and get back to us on how well your blade fared...


I'll refer you back to the holding of my Kreg pocket jig, temporarily, to a piece of plywood. Absolutely, nothing else:no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> I'll refer you back to the holding of my Kreg pocket jig, temporarily, to a piece of plywood. Absolutely, nothing else:no:


the bugle shape of the screw head will break the plastic...
use a pocket, truss head or a K-lath screw instead...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> the bugle shape of the screw head will break the plastic...
> use a pocket, truss head or a K-lath screw instead...


Hmmm! Never gave that a thought. Will do.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I can't believe how time consuming this is , but I made some headway. 
Wanted to see if I could make 2 slim shelves and it worked . The ones on the right are for screw driver bits and staples etc ,so they didn't need to be very deep .

Have the pieces cut and dadoed here . I really have this thing for rabbet lock joints right now so I carried on that theme . It's takes me a few times to get the fence and blade height set but I'm getting better at it 



Because there very shallow I didn't dado a slot to hold the bottom but just sunk the 1/4" bottom in flush with the bottom 



Here they are installed




So tommorow I'll put mdf fronts on them and there handles , a French cleat and rear spacer and call it a day . Really wanting to get working on my work bench drawers and this experiance should help


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Nice job, Rick. Now, all you have to do is face the drawers and install some pulls; throw on some finish and hang it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Nice job, Rick. Now, all you have to do is face the drawers and install some pulls; throw on some finish and hang it.


Thanks Bill . I wasn't going to put any finish on it but the thought crossed my mind . Not really sure what type of finish would work as the spacers would be stick if it were painted .
I can live with the way it looks now


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

That turned out nice. You are going to smile every time you reach for a tool.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> That turned out nice. You are going to smile every time you reach for a tool.


Thank you Mike . You were certainly the inspiration for doing the project . I'm just fortunate that you posted your idea when you did as I never would have thought of it. 

I'm seriously going to be very happy knowing where my drills, air nailers and bits are for now on . That's a great idea you had IMO

And the added bonus is the experience I gained with things I've never tried before


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

A great job! Congrats Rick, you'll enjoy it and move on to others.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

JFPNCM said:


> A great job! Congrats Rick, you'll enjoy it and move on to others.


Thanks Jon . I'm really ready to carry on lol as this has taken far to long


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Very nice! Well done, Rick.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Very nice! Well done, Rick.


Thanks Dan . I know it's not a the biggest accomplishment but all these little things should add up eventually . 
I have to say I do find it enjoyable building the drawers . Was kinda looking forward to building them .


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Nice job mate you should be pleased.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

That'll do Rick, That'll do!!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Congrats, Rick...looks good...

"Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way."

...love your threads...


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Nice result, Rick. I gotta remember your trick for putting the dividers in... I'm sure that will come in handy.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

TenGees said:


> Nice result, Rick. I gotta remember your trick for putting the dividers in... I'm sure that will come in handy.


Thanks Paul , I did it decades ago and forgot all about it doing it that way . I really find it better in some circumstances . I would have liked to have routed the front edges rounding them off a bit but I'm not to concerned


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I'm finally ready to move on . After what I did I think I'm going to change my name from RainMan1 to "The Amateur".
I thought I thought of everything when I built those shallow drawers , but one thing slipped by . The centre divider is right where the handle was supposed to go  ,
So I put a long screw in there and some glue thinking it would be enough to hold the knob but then impatient and drove back to HD for differant knobs . Something I'll definitely remember when I make my work bench drawers 


I could put filler in the open holes or make new fronts but I couldn't be bothered right now as its functional so that's all that matters . Put a French cleat on it and hung it .
Speaking of French cleats , for the second time I put air nails threw the 45 degree angle part by accident when I attached it to the cabinet . Had to take it off and start over . I don't think I'll do it a third time 



It's almost a little to high but I'll try it for now . Loving the French cleat idea as while I was at it I moved the right shelf to the right some more as it was awkward stocking it with the drill press in the way


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Looking great Rick - nice job.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

My God, Rick! That's some nice insulation that you put in!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Well done Rick....

Could not have done it without the Festool......VBG.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm so looking fwd. to 'helping' Rick insulate the foundation walls!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Battle Not Won (yet)*

Are those MDF drawer fronts?!


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

schnewj said:


> My God, Rick! That's some nice insulation that you put in!





DaninVan said:


> I'm so looking fwd. to 'helping' Rick insulate the foundation walls!


Rick I think the boys are giving you a gentle reminder.>>>


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Are those MDF drawer fronts?!


Yes . There not glued , just air nailed . Pretty much the screws from the handles are keeping them on . Was debating to use BB


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old55 said:


> Rick I think the boys are giving you a gentle reminder.>>>


Well I'm seriously considering getting that done this fall . I really want to work in comfort in there this winter so I better get hopping .
My neighbour bought some dirt bike gear off me and owes me 400 , so I'm thinking about letting him off the hook in exchange for labour putting up vapour barrier and drywall . 
Well I may do a layer of OSB covered with a layer of drywall as I'm not sure it's legal to have OSB walls only fire insurance wise ?


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Go for insulation and peg board to hang more tools etc from. I'd skip the dry wall.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

JFPNCM said:


> Go for insulation and peg board to hang more tools etc from. I'd skip the dry wall.


Well if it's ok insurance wise I'll put a kibosh on the drywall , but I believe I've heard your SOL if there's a fire and the walls are not drywalled.
It's sure going to make it painful cutting around outlets when you go with two layers


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Well if it's ok insurance wise I'll put a kibosh on the drywall , but I believe I've heard your SOL if there's a fire and the walls are not drywalled.
> It's sure going to make it painful cutting around outlets when you go with two layers


I don't know what the building codes in CA are, however, I believe that if you cover exposed studs that you need to apply a fire rated material. Drywall is normally rated around an hour, depending on the thickness. The guys up there will be able to answer this question better then I can.

With that being said. It would probably be acceptable to install OSB covered by the rock. The problem that you will encounter is, that, your electrical boxes are not offset correctly. If you add 1/2 or 3/4 OSB and 1/2" sheetrock you are out 1-1-1/4". Your boxes are not out that far on the studs. 

You will have to either relocate the boxes (a real pain in the ...) or add box extenders onto the face to move them out.

Not only that, but you now have to take the shelves, nail gun cabinet and the clamp rack down just to do a six foot section of wall. Oops! half a section of wall...I see that you have a concrete knee wall.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bill taking down shelves are the least of my worries lol . I have seen garaged done in OSB , just not sure if it's legal . I can live with drywall and French cleat , works for me


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well she found a new home . I decided to put my clamps under the shelves and moved the drill shelf to the other side . It's lower and more ergonomic to reach now also . All in all I'm pretty happy with the end result .

Hey seeing as I have a plug right there I think I'll put my chargers on top of the cabinet


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I like the drawer pulls. Your project turned out nice.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> I like the drawer pulls. Your project turned out nice.


Thank you Mike . Again I can't thank you enough for the idea . I really like that I built a few shallow drawers as like I mentioned there for bit storage and I'd sooner not have to dig under a pile .

In reality I've learned a lot from you guys this past few months as I've never attempted a rabbet joint or a lock joint . Insignificant to many I'm sure , but it means a lot to me .

I have to get this garage insulated as I'm finding building these little projects for organizing things to be a lot of fun (when I'm not screwing it up )


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

"Experience" is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted in the first place. :grin:

...and believe me, I have a lot of experience. :surprise:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> "Experience" is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted in the first place. :grin:
> 
> ...and believe me, I have a lot of experience. :surprise:


Don't we all...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys lining up the drill for holes for the handles was a little iffy . I carefully measured and then used my centre punch to make a divot to guide the drill bit.
I'm thinking for my work bench drawers that maybe I should build some sort of metal jig on the drill press to act as a guide ?

All my handles will have two holes


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Your DP fence can be aligned so the hole will be drilled in the center of the board. Then set up a stop block so you simply slide the drawer front to the left, drill, then slide it to the right and drill the second one. Make the hole slightly larger than the stud so you have a little wiggle room.

Saying all that, I use the Kreg flip stops form my miter saw station as the stop blocks so I can flip them out of the way so one side can be drilled, then flip the flip stops :surprise: and drill the other hole.

This would apply for all drawer fronts of the same width.

Need a pic?

Note: Look for hardware with 3 inch spacing. Makes the math a lot easier. Believe me, I have a lot of experience with odd spaced drawer pulls! :grin::grin::grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

No pic necessary , makes sense to me


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

I've found that a set of Self-Centering Bits can be of assistance in mounting drawer pulls as well.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

schnewj said:


> I don't know what the building codes in CA are, however, I believe that if you cover exposed studs that you need to apply a fire rated material. Drywall is normally rated around an hour, depending on the thickness. The guys up there will be able to answer this question better then I can.
> 
> With that being said. It would probably be acceptable to install OSB covered by the rock. The problem that you will encounter is, that, your electrical boxes are not offset correctly. If you add 1/2 or 3/4 OSB and 1/2" sheetrock you are out 1-1-1/4". Your boxes are not out that far on the studs.
> 
> You will have to either relocate the boxes (a real pain in the ...) or add box extenders onto the face to move them out.


An option to consider is surface mount wiring which gives you the ability to add or change wiring with minimal problem. I now wish that I'd done that when I wired my garage back then; I thought that I had plenty of circuits/outlets but now find myself needing to add an outlet up near the ceiling for an air cleaner, going to be a problem with OSB on the walls and the feeds coming down from the attic which now has 14" of blown-in insulation up there. I used plastic conduit when I ran the 240V circuit for my mini split - not the most attractive look with it running across the ceiling, but it could be painted to match the drywall. The hardest part of the job was moving stuff down below so I could get to the ceiling to screw in the clamps.

I posted a couple of attachments from the archives, I have more but they are apparently too large. When I added the 240V circuit, I bought spools of the different color THNN wires and pulled them with a fish tape - total run was probably 35' with (3) 90° bends, and it went pretty easily, although it's easier with two people, one to pull the tape and the other to feed the wires in smoothly.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@RainMan1

Rick: get yourself one of these - only a few bucks

Richelieu Hardware Cabinet Hardware Door and Drawer Drilling Template - Value Pack-RICTEMPVPACK - The Home Depot


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