# finally got a couple hours in shop



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

ive had limited time in shop lately due to health problems in family.

i have had my camboard ready to drill for awhile and finally got some time to work on it.

i fianlly got a new battery for my old camera andwill post pictures.

there are a couple of pictures of the camboard,plus some of the first jig i made to hold the templates. i think i am gonna really enjoy the camboard. i still have to make more cams


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Nice job levon. Wasn't drilling all those holes fun? :jester:

You are right in the fact you are going to enjoy the cam board. Why are you going to make more cams? Different sizes?

Hope the family health improves for you, I know it is a heavy burden to carry.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

thanks Bob!

the board was repititous, the cams took a little thought to get the counterbores the right depth. but if i can do it, anyone can.

i want to use some 2"inch material with a template on top. i need some taller cams for the templates. i will probably use a larger diameter cam and need to make some 2 and 2 1/2 " tall. i hope you can understand what i mean? im not the best at conveying ideas.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

Looking good,nice job,,your set to enjoy the cam board and I sure you will,,,,I know I said this b/4 but it will hold anything you want to router,it doesn't need to fit in the box.. just drop on the board and turn and lock cams in place, it's that quick and easy,,many will say why all the holes ( cam hold down screws holes) the stock is not always the same size, from the blank stock to the template if it's needed..once done your set for almost and project  once you use a time or two you will start thinking about the drill press they work on almost any tool you have and once you have the cams your set for almost any job..cutting,sanding ,drilling,cutting the hard to hold,hand planing,hand chisel work,etc.

Just for kicks I put a picture in for the blank cam stock below..it can be cut to any size, 3/8" thick to 2 1/2" tall..and still use the same ALLEN screws on all..

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levon said:


> ive had limited time in shop lately due to health problems in family.
> 
> i have had my camboard ready to drill for awhile and finally got some time to work on it.
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi BobJ

thanks for the compliments and yours help and posts that show lots of us jigs that can be made pretty easily and make woodworking easier and more enjoyable!

hmmmm, i had thought of lots of uses but not the drill press.

i want to make some more cams and will use a larger stock. in our big box stores the oak dowels are easy to find, but they dont have any 8 feet long. most is 24 or 36" long and expensive,lol.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

Your Welcome  for my small part you did all the work,,

Think lumber yards for the blank cam stock, the 2ea. I have are hand rails ,cheap so to speak..or check out the used lumber supply outlets we have many in Denver..like you do maybe up the hill...painted or clear finish is no big deal..like many will be used..

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levon said:


> hi BobJ
> 
> thanks for the compliments and yours help and posts that show lots of us jigs that can be made pretty easily and make woodworking easier and more enjoyable!
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i will check out some new outlets for the longer oak. a short piece 36" doesnt last that long making cams.

after rereading your post, i saw something i missed and i think that there are maybe a few people here that arent aware of it. and that is the sockethead screws. they work so well and its easy to tighten them. unlike phillips heads, they dont cam out and strip the head. they apply plenty of torque and tighten down well and can be used over and over without damaging the heads of the screws. im sold on them


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

Like you I like the ALLEN screws, I do make my own wrenches for them, little short ones that fit right in my hand and easy to turn...

Fudge Cicle Handles  


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levon said:


> i will check out some new outlets for the longer oak. a short piece 36" doesnt last that long making cams.
> 
> after rereading your post, i saw something i missed and i think that there are maybe a few people here that arent aware of it. and that is the sockethead screws. they work so well and its easy to tighten them. unlike phillips heads, they dont cam out and strip the head. they apply plenty of torque and tighten down well and can be used over and over without damaging the heads of the screws. im sold on them


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hey BobJ

i like the allen wrenches, what did you use to glue the handles on?

i have a bunch of allen wrenches, but last time i was at hf bought a set of sae and metric t-handles. i have been using them more and more and wanted t-handles. its funny, the green one in the picture just happens to raise my craftsman router, tighten the cams and tighten the 1/4-20 screws holding the camboard to the auxilliary table its secured to.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

I used some 3/8" thick walnut,clamped it up as a pair and drill the right size hole for the Allen key down the center and on the side,unclamp the pair, cut off the short end of the Allen key dropped in the hole with some white glue and reclamp it..the short end of the key is about 1/2" long after the cut job, then a bit of sanding ...on the power sander and dip in some finish ,all done,,, I have them all over the shop.. 

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levon said:


> hey BobJ
> 
> i like the allen wrenches, what did you use to glue the handles on?
> 
> i have a bunch of allen wrenches, but last time i was at hf bought a set of sae and metric t-handles. i have been using them more and more and wanted t-handles. its funny, the green one in the picture just happens to raise my craftsman router, tighten the cams and tighten the 1/4-20 screws holding the camboard to the auxilliary table its secured to.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i somewhat understand but, do you drill a hole in the side of each handle? or am i mixed up?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

Right on,,the hex key is in the shape of the L right,,,hole for each angle so to speak 

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levon said:


> i somewhat understand but, do you drill a hole in the side of each handle? or am i mixed up?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This is my favourite set of allen keys, being ball point they can be used at angles that would be difficult to reach otherwise. Note that in spite of being made in the USA, they are METRIC! The other key I made at the same time as the four way tool post for my metal lathe many years ago.


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## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Hey all,

I was doin' some thinkin'.... scary, I know. BJ already answered my question in his last post on this thread. So now my post is to just say hey. 

I was just looking a levon's cam board. I don't have the foggiest idea for what it is to be used... but it looks like something I have thought about. Since I am working on only small projects I need help keeping pieces stable while I sand them.... especially with the red oak... takes a tad bit longer.... 

Is that what the cam board is for or am I just up in my sleep?


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## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

I'm going to make a camboard and have a few questions - hopefully someone will be able to answer:

1. Diameter of cam stock - BJ mentioned 1 3/4" (about 44mm) - seems quite large and would occupy a lot of space on the board. Obviously there's more 'adjustment' in a larger cam - is that why 1 3/4" is a good size?

2. I realize that the length of the cam depends on what it is holding, but for a start-point for general purpose use (most likely with Harry's skis!), what's a good cam length?

3. What are the threaded inserts called? 

4. Inserting the threaded inserts : does one just drill an appropriate sized hole, smear glue on the threads, then screw the threaded inserts down into the cam board?

5. Does one get those allen key head bolts and washers with the threaded inserts - or is it a cobbled together solution?

6. What kind of bit (drill, router?) does one use to make such small flat bottom holes in the cams? I have a selection of forstner bits - but the smallest is 16mm! Do I need a smaller forstner bit?

Sorry for all the questions!

Matthew

PS - I intend making the cam board the perfect dimension so that my skis run flush against the outside edges. Saw it mentioned somewhere here. A good idea?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Matt:

I'm going to stick my neck out and comment here in the hopes that the more practised and knowledgeable will chime in and correct my meanderings.



matt1710 said:


> I'm going to make a camboard and have a few questions - hopefully someone will be able to answer:





> 1. Diameter of cam stock - BJ mentioned 1 3/4" (about 44mm) - seems quite large and would occupy a lot of space on the board. Obviously there's more 'adjustment' in a larger cam - is that why 1 3/4" is a good size?


Consider a lever: the longer the handle and shorter the lever, the heavier the load lifted. A small diameter cam can exert more force on a workpiece than a larger one. However, you must consider that some workpieces are more fragile that others and you'll want "light" hold capability. Therefore a selection of sizes would be best but not necessary.

That said, with templates you only want to restrict movement, not exert pressure.



> 2. I realize that the length of the cam depends on what it is holding, but for a start-point for general purpose use (most likely with Harry's skis!), what's a good cam length?


Length? or diameter? Length depends on the thickness of your workpiece. You want the size of the cam to be slightly taller than your workpiece in order to suspend the pattern above the workpiece. Diameter? we discussed above.



> 3. What are the threaded inserts called?


There's three possibilities:

This first group you insert from below and screw the bolt in from the top.

T-Nuts & Propell Nuts (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools

This second group are less popular but will work:

Plain Insert Nuts - Lee Valley Tools

Item #C of this third group is the more popular.

Brass Nuts, Screws & Inserts (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools

Please note these are for 1/4x20 threads but other sizes can be used. There are also "flanged insert nuts." If you search "insert nuts" on the LeeValley.com website, you'll see a selection.

That said, I'm using the LeeValley site because it is a convenient reference. At least now you'll know what to talk to your local supplier about.



> 4. Inserting the threaded inserts : does one just drill an appropriate sized hole, smear glue on the threads, then screw the threaded inserts down into the cam board?


Some, yes; other's will require special treatment. On the LeeValley site, next to the price line you'll see links to "View", "Acc", "Tech", "Instr". These links, if available, will answer some of your questions.



> 5. Does one get those allen key head bolts and washers with the threaded inserts - or is it a cobbled together solution?
> 
> 6. What kind of bit (drill, router?) does one use to make such small flat bottom holes in the cams? I have a selection of forstner bits - but the smallest is 16mm! Do I need a smaller forstner bit?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions!


Neither. It is a well practised solution. Here's the way it works. You have a stout "mother" board (3/4" ply or thicker) with a pattern of holes with threads in them. You take a cam, put a bolt through it and screw the bolt into the hole in the mother board. The friction between the cam and the motherboard holds the cam firmly in place. If you happen to have a slippery combination, glue some sand paper to the bottom side of your cam. When you tighten it down, the sandpaper will "bite" into the motherboard.

The cam is positioned so it will push against the side of your workpiece and hold it firmly in place. Place two cams on each corner and you can hold most work solidly. However, there is a twist. When a cam board and cam are used with a template, the template holds the workpiece down and the cam boards restrict the movement. However, using a cam board with skis is a different matter. Your cams not only have to restrict side to side, end to end movement of the workpiece, there is a distinct possibility that the router bit may cause the workpiece to lift when using a pair of skis. In that case, you might consider wrapping elastic bands around your cams and make sure they make solid contact, with some pressure, on your workpiece. Coarse sand paper might also work, but I've not tried it.

There is another option, put a flange on the top side of your cam so it will not only hold the workpiece sides in place, the flange will hold the workpiece down. It doesn't need to be a flange turned into the cam, it can be as simple as a small piece of 1/4" ply held down by the bolt holding the cam in place. 

Rather than use a cam motherboard, however, I've designed a table for skis that use old fashioned workbench hold downs. If everything goes according to plan, I should be able to build it this winter. Keep your fingers crossed.



> PS - I intend making the cam board the perfect dimension so that my skis run flush against the outside edges. Saw it mentioned somewhere here. A good idea?


This is the only reason I chimed into this thread. Yes, you may use the edge of the cam board for rails for your skis. Make sure your worktable is properly sized and free of obstacles. Your skis will have to be carefully sized to ensure that the rails restrict the skis without binding. It will help if the motherboard and the rails for the skis are independent of each other. Then, you can set the rails to the most advantageous position for your skis.

I would also suggest that you look at a pivot frame. Interesting options with that one.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Matt

The 1 3/4" size is the best it's not to big if you think about it, the pivot hole on the cam is in from the edge about 1/2" and you want as much as you can get from the pivot hole or you will need to have more holes in the cam board..

The cams I use are from 3/8" thick to 1 1/2" ,,I have about 100 of them in the box of cams, you will used them all from time to time, you always want the cams just a little lower than the project board and always just a little bit lower than the template board the norm and many times you will use both at the same time on the same project..

I use 10-24 tee nuts with the sharp points cut off, Harry likes to use the screw in type but I know they will get strip out easy and the tee nuts are so easy to replace, one quick tap and up and running..unlike the screw in type..

The 10-24 Allen caps will hold the cams it place I use a small flat washer under the head because it's in wood and I know over time the Allen cap screw will change that without the washer in place..I use a small metric flat washer that's 1/16" bigger than the head of the Allen cap screw., by the way no sand paper needed the Allen cap will do all the work..

You can see many,many snapshots of the cams and the cam board in my uploads..about 200 if I recall...
Here's just one of many ..
http://www.routerforums.com/142533-post23.html


I'm not the expert like Ron is I'm just one user of the skis jigs and I know what works for me.. 




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## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi Ron

Thanks so much for the very detailed and helpful advice. I've now got a much better idea of what I need to obtain in terms of hardware. Will continue to look at cam-board setups to get an idea of threaded nut placement.

Am not sure that you understood my question re drilling the holes in the cams. It seems that you have to drill a hole slightly larger than the diameter of the allen key bolt, and then drill into the same hole with a slightly larger diameter drill bit, in order to create the recess for the allen key head & washer. What kind of drill bit is used for that - a tiny forstner?

Matthew


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## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi BJ

Thanks for the info. Why do you cut the sharp points off the tee nuts?

Matthew


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Matt:



matt1710 said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> Thanks so much for the very detailed and helpful advice. I've now got a much better idea of what I need to obtain in terms of hardware. Will continue to look at cam-board setups to get an idea of threaded nut placement.
> 
> ...


Ah, ok. I'm lucky. I inherited a veritable cornucopia of drill bits of every size and many persuasions. You want to drill a through hole large enough for the threads of the bolt to clear. The countersink (recess for the allen key head) would be any drill bit that will allow you to drill a hole to clear the head. However, remember that with skis you'll want to keep that height so you can create a flange to hold the workpiece down. Levon made a comment that he used a hex head bolt and, I would think, with a washer. You can use the same and hold the workpiece down with the flange material trapped between the washer and the cam.

Does this make sense? It seems to me this is a bit convoluted. Let me know if it's as clear as mud and I'll see what I can do to clear some away.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

matt1710 said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> Thanks so much for the very detailed and helpful advice. I've now got a much better idea of what I need to obtain in terms of hardware. Will continue to look at cam-board setups to get an idea of threaded nut placement.
> 
> ...


Hi Matt - Don't overthink the cam board thing. It's just a piece of plywood with a bunch of threaded holes. Not sure what is available in NZ for threaded fasteners, t-nuts were about the most economical for me. They will normally just pound in from the bottom side. Adhesive is optional, they can be poked out while threading in a bolt but it's not really a big deal, when the fastener is tightened, it just torques up. I used a plunge router to drill all the holes, in the board and in the cams. I made a template, looked a little like a dovetail template, to make the holes in the board, and a fixture to hold the cams when I hit them with the plunge router. Two routers is handy if you go this route. As far as cam intervals and cam diameters, no one size fits all anyway. I started with 2" intervals and 1-3/4" diameter cams only because they sounded like good numbers. Ended up with several diameters and several thicknesses. You do want to keep the height of the cam/fastener assemblies below your workpiece if at all possible. If I'm using a template, I double face tape or pin nail the template to the workpiece. 
Thickness of the board itself is also pretty much optional. I used 1/2" (12mm) and either clamp or bolt the board to a bench. I have a small shop so I rotate tools on and off the workbench so I have a bunch of holes with threaded fasteners in the workbench that I can bolt things down to. I mount the tools to predetermined sized platforms that I bolt down and just use those to bolt the cam board down. 
Just a couple of suggestions, like I said, no need to over complicate the thing.


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## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi John

Wicked - thanks for all the tips. Have just returned from the hardware store to check out their selection of T-nuts -the smallest they have takes an M6 bolt (ie 6mm diameter) - so quite big don't you think. Will look for some smaller ones I think - either M4 or M5.

Good tips in that post - I'll adhere to Harry's "K.I.S.S" motto. 

Matthew


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

matt1710 said:


> Hi John
> 
> Wicked - thanks for all the tips. Have just returned from the hardware store to check out their selection of T-nuts -the smallest they have takes an M6 bolt (ie 6mm diameter) - so quite big don't you think. Will look for some smaller ones I think - either M4 or M5.
> 
> ...


6mm is 0.2362198" which is close to my 1/4". That's fine, if you have it handy. I use whatever I've got that seems to best fit the situation. Like John said, nothing fancy, just functional. However, in many respects, I'm just like you. I want the finite detail to make sure I understand it all. No room for guesswork.

I maintain an inventory of various sizes of bolts, nuts and other fasteners. I've collected them from garage sales, my own usage and from stuff my father left me. The only "complete" collection that I have is 1/4" bolt fasteners: i.e. bolt (steel, stainless, brass, nylon), nut (square, hex, acorn, wing, "T", nyloc, cross dowel) etc.

In all of these I only keep a limited number. The objective is to have sufficient on hand for small jobs (jigs etc.) In terms of investment, I may have a few dollars in about 20 different 1/4"-20 articles.

When ever you're doing something like this, always backtrack and make sure you're still answering to the original requirement. In all of my experiments, skis are the second most accurate routing methodology. Shiis are the most accurate and templates are third. Is this accuracy necessary for your project(s)?

Did I send you some of my notes?


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## rod0444 (Sep 24, 2010)

As a newcomer I had never heard of a camboard, what a clever(and quite simple idea) I must try it.

Thanks

rod


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

rod0444 said:


> As a newcomer I had never heard of a camboard, what a clever(and quite simple idea) I must try it.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> rod


Hi Rod:

It just goes to show that everyone benefits from a question. Did you know that there are 8 different holding methodologies for motherboards, of which cams are one?


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