# Staining Safety



## dp3dp (Sep 14, 2015)

I am very new to wood working but continue to take precautions to protect myself as we all do or should be doing. Hearing, eye, lung, amd finger protection to name a few. But this question revolves around house protection. 

I understand the risks of stain soaked rags paper towels etc. When I'm done staining I take my paper towels / rags and put them outside in my charcoal grill overnight or soak them in a bucket of water until I'm ready to let them dry out. If they catch fire in the grill its one of the things a grill was meant for to contain fire and its away from the house instead of in the garage. 

My question involves the cardboard I have been using while I stain. If I get stain on the cardboard and wipe it "dry" with paper towel what is the risk of the card board spontanously combusting overnight? 

I have been using general finishes gel stain FSA.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've never heard of anyone having an issue with those minimal quantities, Peter. Linseed oil is the really bad boy of the spontaneous combustion culprits, and normally if the cloth or paper towel is heavily loaded and crumpled up so that the heat buildup is confined.
I just rinse mine in paint thinner and/or TSP and water (wring them out thoroughly) and hang them outdoors to dry. Keep the cloths out of the direct sun _(in the spirit of total honesty...I ignore my own advice.)_


----------



## dp3dp (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank You. Yes before I posted the question I searched the Googles and when insurance companies spend money on something to advise their customers and fire departments post bulletins on how to properly handle the rags shows hos nasty it is. Although I always feel like insurance companies are like a bookie who loses the bet and doesn't wanna pay up. 

Given those searches is why I asked the question of what the risk of the cardboard spontanously combusting is. The few stories I've read of fire always involve improperly stored rags.


----------



## Oakwerks (May 9, 2013)

I use paper towels and Minwax stain...... Never heard of there being a fire hazard tossing them in the garbage....


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Cardboard wont catch on fire, neither will one rag, the real risk is with oil based materiel, that's lacquers that get reduced with mineral turpentine, if you have a pile of rags that are soaked then that pile can catch on fire, they get hot the way a compost pile gets hot, one rag on it's own won't catch on fire. N


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Peter,

I posted this reply to your blanket chest thread, but I'll copy it to here.

Sounds like you have a good handle on how to treat the contaminated rags. However, I would not be too concerned with drips on the cardboard. If you are not soaking the material, (tipped over container), and are just dealing with drips that you are wiping up, you should be OK. The drips will air dry and should not pose a problem. A a matter of fact your contaminated rags are fine if you spread them out to dry. The problem of exothermic and endothermic heat generation starts when the material is compressed. Wadding up a rag or cramming several into a container is prime fire generation territory.

Keep treating your rags like you are and don't worry about drips on the cardboard.

As a caution to all; the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) for the product(s) are always available. If you take the time to read them they will provide all of the information that you need to safely use, store and control the materials. They can be found online or must be supplied by the retailer upon request.

Dan is right, Linseed Oil (BLO) IS the real bad boy. Even then, unless the rags are soaked and left wadded up the chances of a fire are low. The real trick is to lay then out and allow them to dry thoroughly.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

A barn full of green hay will catch on fire, as will a pile of Douglas fir sawdust at a sawmill. But stain on cardboard, never heard of that as a problem. I put a sheet of plastic down to stain on.

Herb


----------



## P.A. Gosselin (Aug 24, 2014)

Peter, thanks for asking the question. I have had similar misgivings in the past and the answers provided from our fellow forum members really clear doubts up for me. Thank you Dan, Kurt, Neville, Bill and Herb for your clarifications.


----------



## dp3dp (Sep 14, 2015)

Thank You all for the replies. I feel much more comfortable with leaving cardboard that has drips that are paper toweled dried on it with out catching fire. I'd rather be safe then sorry. The expierence from fellow members than a posting by an insurance company that is nonspecific about drips on cardboard makes me feel a lot better. As silly a question if cardboard would spontanously combust from stain drips, I was not the only one concerned about it which makes me feel better. 
I've completed 3 small projects that were already precut just had to sand, stain and assemble they were gifts for hospitalized veterans and needed to get some expierence with staining before I tackled the blanket chests I am working on which is why the question was asked. I really appreciate the feedback and have included the 3 projects that were donated for hospitalized veterans like myself. In the one of the wood tray you can see the cardboard I was using. Thank you all for the replies again I really appreciate it with easing my mind.

I will have to look at the msds on general finishes pre stain conditioner to see exactly what is in it and the risks of spontanous combustion. Thank You again!!!!


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

dp3dp said:


> Thank You all for the replies. I feel much more comfortable with leaving cardboard that has drips that are paper toweled dried on it with out catching fire. I'd rather be safe then sorry. The expierence from fellow members than a posting by an insurance company that is nonspecific about drips on cardboard makes me feel a lot better. As silly a question if cardboard would spontanously combust from stain drips, I was not the only one concerned about it which makes me feel better.
> I've completed 3 small projects that were already precut just had to sand, stain and assemble they were gifts for hospitalized veterans and needed to get some expierence with staining before I tackled the blanket chests I am working on which is why the question was asked. I really appreciate the feedback and have included the 3 projects that were donated for hospitalized veterans like myself. In the one of the wood tray you can see the cardboard I was using. Thank you all for the replies again I really appreciate it with easing my mind.
> 
> I will have to look at the msds on general finishes pre stain conditioner to see exactly what is in it and the risks of spontanous combustion. Thank You again!!!!


Cool projects, they will look great with some clear finish on them.
Herb


----------



## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

You're doing some really nice work for being new.

As to your fire question, I just lay my rags out flat or draped over something without any folds in them. As long as they open to the air they'll be okay, the heat won't build up. It's when you get multiple layers folded on top of each other that you get into problems. It's kind of a conundrum, the oxygen in the air is what causes the reaction to dry the oil, and at the same time the air dissipates the heat, in a manner of speaking. As long as it can dissipate the heat you are going to be good.

Edit to ask: What kind of corner clamps are those? I gotta find some of those!


----------



## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

i used to work in a waste paper factory, where shredded paper was compressed into half ton bales and loaded onto a ship for recycling.
Spontaneous combustion was a very real danger, and occasionally did happen.
On a stack of paper bales 30 foot high x 20 foot wide x 50 foot back, you can appreciate the fire Possibilities there.
We would often come in in the morning and see steam rising from a stack as the wet paper started to dry itself. With extinguishers ready, we would pull the stack apart to find areas charred and on the verge of flame.
But also, that entire factory was ankle deep in loose paper pieces from the bales, and there was NEVER a fear of that loose paper catching alight.

As long as the material is not wadded to prevent heat escaping, nothing will catch fire.


----------



## dp3dp (Sep 14, 2015)

Shadowrider said:


> You're doing some really nice work for being new.
> 
> Edit to ask: What kind of corner clamps are those? I gotta find some of those!


Thank You! They are from Harbor Freight. On sale for 10$ right now



Herb Stoops said:


> Cool projects, they will look great with some clear finish on them.
> Herb


I was going to leave the clocks alone however did purchase some satin general finishes arm r seal for the tray I can put onto the clocks.



sunnybob said:


> i used to work in a waste paper factory, where shredded paper was compressed into half ton bales and loaded onto a ship for recycling.
> Spontaneous combustion was a very real danger, and occasionally did happen.
> On a stack of paper bales 30 foot high x 20 foot wide x 50 foot back, you can appreciate the fire Possibilities there.
> We would often come in in the morning and see steam rising from a stack as the wet paper started to dry itself. With extinguishers ready, we would pull the stack apart to find areas charred and on the verge of flame.
> ...


Wow! Well that about sums it up. That is some good information to pass along and to know.


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Nice looking projects! Keep it up and let us see the final product after finishing.
BTW, I spread out paper towels on the concrete floor or hang then on the metal handle of a hand truck. Never leave them folded or wadded up. Don't use cloth for finishing.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

sunnybob said:


> i used to work in a waste paper factory, where shredded paper was compressed into half ton bales and loaded onto a ship for recycling.
> Spontaneous combustion was a very real danger, and occasionally did happen.
> On a stack of paper bales 30 foot high x 20 foot wide x 50 foot back, you can appreciate the fire Possibilities there.
> We would often come in in the morning and see steam rising from a stack as the wet paper started to dry itself. With extinguishers ready, we would pull the stack apart to find areas charred and on the verge of flame.
> ...


I'm surprised, what about that guy who throws down his lit cigar butt on the floor as he exits at shift change?

Herb


----------



## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

any person smoking anywhere outside the canteen was out the door instant.
Apart from the sacking risk, it was an old victorian factory, with narrow corridors and dead ends everywhere. It was more worrying being burnt to death than being sacked, believe me.
Did you know there were 32 different types of waste paper? I did. (and no, I cant remember them all now, (g)


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not just smoking, Bob. Paper dust is a huge problem. Any dust...
16×9 investigation: What was behind the deadly B.C. sawmills explosions? - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

LOL!
This was way before there were such things as dust collectors.

This place was huge, 7 different unloading bays, three floors, an attached warehouse that could hold several hundred tons of baled paper. Not sure of exact numbers, but well over a 100 people worked there.
And all of it open to the air, all year round.
Trust me, Dust was not an issue.

I used to work with this guy, his job was to push the bales from the press to the scales, weigh the bale, then wheel them into the warehouse, where I stacked them with the help of an over head gantry crane.
http://m7.i.pbase.com/v3/50/558950/2/44895107.Paddy.jpg


----------

