# 1.5" brass guides



## routerman1969 (Nov 14, 2004)

check out my post under guides and bushings.. i love oak park but there guides are too darned expensive...:sold:


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

Bump/.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

I agree with the original poster ...I have ordered some of the router workshop plans and books from Oak Park, but I was able to get a complete set of the large guide bushings from Lee Valley for the same price that oak park wanted for just one bushing ???  

The large 1-1/2 OD bushing is great for getting the required depth when using face cutters with the plunge router and templates because it allows the collet of my router to protrude below the routers baseplate... :sold: 

Lee Valley template guides 

Greg


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"The large 1-1/2 OD bushing is great for getting the required depth when using face cutters with the plunge router and templates because it allows the collet of my router to protrude below the routers baseplate..."

Greg, isn't this exactly why Template Tom has been pushing the 40mm guide, only a few days ago I was doing a small project which used a 30mm guide and on the last cut there were sparks, I'm so used to using a large guide that I forgot the collet wouldn't go through the 30mm one, hence the sparks.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Out of the routers I have only one will take on the 1 1/2" guides and that's the small Colt.
How many routers made for the states will have the 1 1/2 hole for the guides that you know about , the only one that comes to mind is the Bosch...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob, here down under we often think of ourselves as well behind the USA but you're admission makes me wonder! It's obvious that in some things and routing in particular, we are way, way ahead of you and I'm not going to duck for cover, just attempt to get Template Tom back into the forum and let him teach everyone what routing is all about!
I believe he is about to start five weeks holidays on the eastern side of Australia.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Harry,

the large template guides allow me to use a lot of cutters with my plunge router that would otherwise require a collet extension if I was using the standard size template guides (1-3/16")... yes, it's the exact same reason that Tom has been pushing the 40mm guide  

I just made a simple base plate to accept the large guide bushings using a 1-3/4" forstner bit for the counterbore and a 1-1/2" bit for the through hole. I'm pretty sure that I got the idea from an old forum post by Bobj3...it's real simple to make a baseplate that will allow any router to use the large bushings   



Greg


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

In fairness when comparing the large guide bushings developed by Oak Park to the after market copies that Lee Valley sells please make note of the fact that the actual guide portion is thicker on the Oak Park guides. You will spot this when comparing the OD/ID relationship. Having the thicker collar means it is less likely to get bent, stronger if you will. While Lee Valley offers 6 sizes, Oak Park offers 18. I don't fault anybody for wanting to save money. If you built a set of 18 guides using the 6 from Lee Valley in place of the Oak Park guides you would save about $50, and that is a fair chunk of money. Just remember that Oak Park invested their money to develop these guides, to give you 14 seasons of the Router Workshop and this forum. All those video lessons plus the forum? Suddenly $50 doesn't seem like such a big deal.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Mike,

Sorry, I meant no disrespect and I certainly wasn’t trying to take money out of Oak Parks pocket.  

I do think that Bob and Rick Rosendahl are genius when it comes to using the router and I have bought some of their project plans and books…but when they show me that using a simple 2x4 clamped to my router table as a fence will give the same results as a $300 custom aluminum extruded fence…and I know that I can buy a 2x4 at the store for $2, it’s a little hard for me to justify spending $100 for one from Oak Park…but I definitely would spend $10 for one autographed by Bob and Rick   

Also, I had no idea that Oak Park came up with the idea and developed brass template guide bushings, and I still don’t see how a 1-1/2” OD x 1-3/8” ID guide bushing from Oak Park is going to be stronger than one from Lee Valley, but I’ll take your word for it ....


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike 

I SUPPORT Oak-Park when I can but in all fairness, is this the set(s) you are talking about... ?

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=BG-BGST-&product=EGP30323

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=BG-BGST-&product=BG034

Lee Valley's set below
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=41778&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1
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As you know I have many of the Oak-Park products and they are GREAT.


But I would like to see them get there price down just a bit ,it's true the more they sale/made the price will come down and it's good for everyone in the long run I just don't want them to go out of business by missing the boat on pricing..


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Mike said:


> In fairness when comparing the large guide bushings developed by Oak Park to the after market copies that Lee Valley sells please make note of the fact that the actual guide portion is thicker on the Oak Park guides. You will spot this when comparing the OD/ID relationship. Having the thicker collar means it is less likely to get bent, stronger if you will. While Lee Valley offers 6 sizes, Oak Park offers 18. I don't fault anybody for wanting to save money. If you built a set of 18 guides using the 6 from Lee Valley in place of the Oak Park guides you would save about $50, and that is a fair chunk of money. Just remember that Oak Park invested their money to develop these guides, to give you 14 seasons of the Router Workshop and this forum. All those video lessons plus the forum? Suddenly $50 doesn't seem like such a big deal.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I just took a peek at the Oak Park template guides and was impressed by the range of sizes but was very surprised that they didn't go up that extra 1/8th to make a 1.5". The second point that I will make is re-adjust the machine that makes them and turn them out in metric! I'm not kidding, with a comprehensive set like that in metric the ease of designing female templates would quickly catch on with other manufacturers and given enough complaints, would start supplying the USA with routers like we have down under that take large guides, I go up to 50mm (2") and I think Tom goes up to 100mm (4"). I'm not attempting to tell you how to run you're country, only the dinkum routing community.

Translation: Dinkum= genuine in Aussietalk


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Although I have lived almost all my life in the United States, I remain mystified that the router community uses Imperial measurements rather than metric. Canada is metric, and I noted from the beginning of my viewing that the Router Workshop uses Imperial measurements. I happen to work in a field in which metric is standard and I can fairly easily switche between the two. 

While I am at it, I bought a set of Amana plunge straight bits only to discover that the y were imprinted with the correct catalog number they were also imprinted with Imperial fractions, not metric measurements! I have Freud metric bits but in spite of the web site description do not appear to be plunge bits


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

mftha, what do you think the chances are of you, Template Tom and myself convincing routologists in the USA that routing in metric is the way to go? I'm not attempting to make everyone start driving on the opposite side of the road or to ask Bj to say he is 1.930.4metres tall (1930.4mm or 6'4"). I wonder if Bill Gates would start the ball rolling by handing out free metric template guides and cutters, just a thought!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ok, all the guides in the basic set plus the extended set plus the .308 special undersized guide comes to 18 guide bushings. The Lee Valley 7 piece set has 6 guide bushings. Harry, the 1.5" guide is part of the basic set, not duplicated in the extended set. While both brands have the same wall thickness on the 3/8" and 1-1/2" guides, the in between sizes are thinner from Lee Valley. 1" OD: 7/8" ID from Lee, 3/4" ID from Oak Park. One has a 1/16" wall thickness and the other a 1/8" wall thickness. This is why I suggested they should be stronger, is there something wrong with my math or logic?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike said:


> Ok, all the guides in the basic set plus the extended set plus the .308 special undersized guide comes to 18 guide bushings. The Lee Valley 7 piece set has 6 guide bushings. Harry, the 1.5" guide is part of the basic set, not duplicated in the extended set. While both brands have the same wall thickness on the 3/8" and 1-1/2" guides, the in between sizes are thinner from Lee Valley. 1" OD: 7/8" ID from Lee, 3/4" ID from Oak Park. One has a 1/16" wall thickness and the other a 1/8" wall thickness. This is why I suggested they should be stronger, is there something wrong with my math or logic?


As I have come to expect from you Mike, there is nothing wrong with you're maths or logic, but consider, there is no real stress on a template guide whilst being used so strength I don't think is of any real consequence and by making the wall thickness greater than necessary simply reduces the clearance for the collet/cutter. The question now Mike is simply do the majority of American routers not have the ability to take the 1 3/8" and 1 1/2" and if the answer is NO, then surely it's a simple matter to make an adaptor, it's even been suggested that Bj has made and posted such a thing. It may appear to some that I'm making a big deal here but once a few projects have been completed using the larger guides word will travel and it will become the norm. as will metric cutters!


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> mftha, what do you think the chances are of you, Template Tom and myself convincing routologists in the USA that routing in metric is the way to go?


Harry, I recommended that just the woodworking industry go metric a long time ago... It would make things a lot easier... no more fractions to mess with... etc. I don't have to tell you...

BUT, most people wanted it left alone... while some wanted change.


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## cbsjoez1935 (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Guys both here and abroad,

My humble opinion on why the good old USA did not go metric was because of the big four (at that time GM, Ford, Chrysler & AMC) did not want to re-tool and they carried a lot of weight with their lobbying. They presented the old "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". At least that's my thinking.

Joe


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I did precision tool repair for 25 years and learned to like metric.. Much more accurate, and less confusing..

When we tried going metric in the states, many Interstate highways were marked with mile and kilometer signs.. Last time I went through Alabama, they had removed them.. I don't know of any that are left..

The auto companies are all metric now..


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

harrysin said:


> mftha, what do you think the chances are of you, Template Tom and myself convincing routologists in the USA that routing in metric is the way to go? I'm not attempting to make everyone start driving on the opposite side of the road or to ask Bj to say he is 1.930.4metres tall (1930.4mm or 6'4"). I wonder if Bill Gates would start the ball rolling by handing out free metric template guides and cutters, just a thought!



Harry, I would very much like to do that. I see from more recent comments that there is support for the idea. I am not certain Bill Gates is the right conduit; I use his products only when I have no alternative. Seriously, the points made by Joe Lyddon and AxyMyk a very good and deserve to be taken seriously. Maybe the five of us could start the effort. I see the real roadblock at this point the companies who manufacture and sell router bits, etc.

My understanding is that President Reagan stopped the metrification of the U.S. because he thought it would be too costly. (penny-wise pound-foolish?) He also appointed a commission charged with terminating the requirement for unleaded gasoline, and that commission did something the President did not expect: they studied the issue. They came back with strong recommendations to greatly strengthen the requirements as quickly as possible.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I realize my comments on why the United States does not use the metric system may seem political. While I do hold strong political opinions, the Router Forum is not the place to express those views. I should point out that while President Reagan put a halt to the process, President Bush did not resume it, President Clinton did not resume it, the current President Bush has not resumed it, and I have heard absolutely no mention of it by any of the current crop of candidates.

In the meantime, let us start using metric measurements here. As several have pointed out, it is much easier than using fractions. Who knows, we might even have the lumber industry express lumber sizes in true measurements, not the size plus blade kerf.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

mftha, I'm sure that if people keep asking for metric size cutters and guides it would eventually filter through to the manufactures, let's face it, most of them already make them in metric for other markets so it's no big deal to alter the quantities that they make of each type. Keep plugging away like I shall.


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