# Safety equipment bites me back :(



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I was going back and forth between routing and using the table saw tonight. Because of my limited space I have to put the routing table on top of the table saw which means taking off all of the safety equipment except the riving knife. 

I had also had to take it off to use my crosscut sled for one cut. And I also always take it off, lower the blade and unplug it when I am done using it.

Well tonight I went through all the motions of putting the safety equipment on like usual, making sure that the pawls were locked down into place and that the blade guard had slid into position and that I had pushed up on the slider which enables it to lock into position.

First I was making a cut and the blade guard came lose. I was able to stop the saw before anything happened. Put it all back on, made sure it was correct.

A couple of cuts latter I was about 2 inches into cutting off part of a 24"x 48" piece. It was a rip cut. I saw the blade guard come loose. The next thing I knew it hit me under the lower lip, I was on the ground and the sheet of plywood was on top of me. I don't remember if I was sitting on my rolling stool when it started or not, but when it ended I was halfway inbetween my recliner and the fridge. My chair is about 3 feet away from the saw diagonally and the fridge along the same way about 10" from the chair.

The blade guard was against the back door which is directly behind the table saw, at least 4 feet away as I have no problem putting a 4' piece of plywood on the edge of the table saw and not hitting the door in any way. So thinking where the chair is, it might be a bit further away as it is on the same wall. but then again the chair sticks out from the wall and the door doesn't.

I was slightly bleeding under the chin. The blade guard plastic had a few scratches like a blade rubbed against it and the metal piece of the blade guard the the laser guide rides on and holds the two pieces of the blade guard was slightly gouged back towards the end of it.

I am more hurt from the fall than anything else, but it was still scary. If my Wife wouldn't have been home I probably would have been laying there at least 15-30 minutes before I would have recovered enough to get the plywood off of my and move things out of the way so I could get up.

I did get back up, rest for a while and even finished the cut.

I guess the moral of the story is check the safety equipment once in a while if you use it as a table saw is dangerous even with it and a part that is supposed to protect you can hurt you.

I did not do the rest of the measuring, cutting or routing I had planned for tonight but instead sat for about 2 hours in my recliner resting and hurting.

I should have had my wife write down the description of where I was and all of that as some of it is blurry to me. (normal after a hard fall):angry:


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh, by the way, I do plan on continuing to use the safety guard including the blade guard. I might order a new one from sears or try to get a new one out of them as the saw isn't even 2 months old yet.


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

Glad that you weren't hurt seriously, But I must stress if you were using a carbide bit blade with that saw, it might be best to junk it. If it hit any metal its not only dull but spinning that fast a carbide tip may fly off and embed in bone some place or worse. at the very least take the blade off and carefully check it out..!! Carbide is extremely brittle and a hard shock may put hairline cracks in it and you wont know it until it's to late.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I am certainly glad that the damage done to the body is minor as it was. Sometimes the emotional part is overlooked. In my opinion you wise to finish the cut and than take it easy for a bit. After my run in with the blade, it took a while to get somewhat comfortable at the saw or any other powered tool for that matter. 
Thanks for posting your "run-in" it might help another to avoid a similar experience.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I am planning on taking the saw back to sears.

After this incident, plus the terrible, terrible fence it has I just don't want to be using a table saw or touching wood at this moment.

As I posted elsewhere the fence was lifting off the table in the middle plus moving off the mark by 1/4" to 1/2". I tried tightening the nut, I tried loosening it. Same problem kept happening. Problem is they made the thing so cheaply the part that clamps on to the bar in front is only around an inch or so and the back side piece is the same. There is plenty of room for it to have been 3"-4" instead which would make the thing much more stable.

For a while I thought that this saw was going to be much better quality than the Pro-tech I bought from menards years ago. But the fence is almost identical, the top is aluminum whereas the older, cheaper saw was steel (at least I think it was).

This just totally ruined my mood about it all. I can't afford much most of the time as we are a single income family (unless you actually count soc sec disability I got on back around 1992 with mainly my teenage work record as the basis for the pay). So I am stuck buying cheaper stuff, going to harbor freight for things like the dust collector and even then waiting for it to go on sale and cost $139 with a coupon. The amount of money my Wife spent there is totally out of character and a rare, rare occurrence.

So I am just at a loss as what to do right now. Kind of ready to give up on it all. I can't use a circular saw except for very short cuts as you need to be able to move around. With a table saw all I needed to be able to do was stand up at one corner or the other or depending on the size of the cut be towards the middle on either side.

It might just be the pain from falling down that is getting me, but all combined is just too much for me to handle right now.


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## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

_the fence was lifting off the table in the middle plus moving off the mark by 1/4" to 1/2"._

WOW!!
I think we would like to see pictures of the setup. Maybe we can offer some suggestions.
But if you feel unconfident about the quality of the saw, take it back. I bet theres some affordable deals out there, but you might have to look for a couple days.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

The saw went back and a new one has been bought. I was just going to return it and take store credit, but my Wife, mother and father conspired against me and decided they liked me being more active and attempting to make things. 

Only problem is we get this new massive saw home, go to set it up and the main trunnion is broken. Huge cast iron thing. At least that is what I think it is from looking at it and at the manual.

The previous saw was this http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...nch+&+Stationary+Power+Tools&sName=Table+Saws which was $300 when we bought it and the extended warranty. I thought we bought it in Feb, but sear's records say Dec 28th. She got it for around $220 because of joining the craftsman club.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...nch+&+Stationary+Power+Tools&sName=Table+Saws is the saw we bought today. It was listed as a reconditioned one on the web site, but all it actually was some other guy bought one and his came without one of the sets of nuts and bolts so some one opened it up and took the set out of the one we bought. All we were supposed to do was call up some number Monday morning and the parts would be sent to us free.

When she talked to sears at the phone, including at the store they said there would be no problem returning the old one because of the problem. Well there was a hassle until all of a sudden a friend of ours is a manager at this sears shows up (we forgot she worked there) and makes sure there isn't a problem.

All it cost us was another $100 of which almost $60 was the extended warranty. So it should be fixed some time next week. which according to the warranty they are supposed to do at our house (no way I can get it back to sears until mid April as it weighs 265lbs and we had a friend over special to help and he won't be around to help again until then and said that we needed to get at least one more abled body to help move it back out.

So when everything is considered with the returns from Christmas, the cash from Christmas this saw is going to be only $20 or so out of our pockets as we had a lot of money in duped presents at sears.

Plus I am told that I might get something from the sears claim department for what happened to me. That was not something we were looking for at all, but She was told to call them tomorrow, say what happened, tell where the saw is so it can be checked out (back at the store already). I figured since all it did was give me a tiny cut under the lip and cause me to fall down, nothing to get excited about and go sue! sue! sue!. After all I normally have at least two falls that bad a month when things are going normal.

The guy who helped load it at the store (took 3 guys) said to call and report the injury too, but he was thinking more they could check the model to see if there is a problem with the safety equipment coming loose or not.

The first night we got the saw we both had problems putting on the pawls and the blade guard so both of us got in the habit of giving each piece an extra tug to make sure everything was tight. So I know the safety equipment was on correctly.

Having this other one get all the way home, started to be put together and find out it is broken straight from the box is very disappointing too. I am beginning to think I am just not supposed to do woodworking


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Hang in there Derek! I know it is frustrating at the moment. And there is absolutely nothing worse than a tool that does not work as expected! I really feel that once you get going on the new saw, you will find wood working to be far more enjoyable!

The two saws you showed above truly are light years apart. I just purchased an older Craftsman Contractor saw via craigslist, to replace a craftsman "jobsite" saw, which is similar to the one you sent back. The contractor saw is far superior. Once you get the Contractor saw going, I think you will find it to be a saw that will serve you well for years to come.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hang in there Derek, and believe me I am at least somewhat familure with your reluctance to get back into it for a while. It has been nearly 4 months since "I fought the _saw_ and the saw won" as it were. For several weeks, it seemed I would almost relive the accident. I could hear the sound and feel the way it felt as my hand was "kicked back". I was fortunate no fingers lost but the damage is done and will never be quite the same. So as not to bore you anymore I will let you read it under http://www.routerforums.com/shop-safety/16865-one-post-i-never-wanted-make.html. You do well to talk about the accident it helped me a lot, folks here were and are the most supportive.

Hang in my friend and you will in time find woodworking to be satisfying and fun. Since then I have compleated several projects and have 4 going on in the shop right now.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Derek I originally had a Sears TS similar to your first one posted above. That thing ALWAYS scared the heck out of me. When I decided to take this hobby more seriously it was the first thing I got rid of. 
I am very glad you were not hurt more seriously. Maybe fate is helping you out here and in the end you will end up with a much better TS and your woodworking will become more pleasurable. You have had an injury and you might need a little time to recover both physically and mentally, but kudos to you for jumping right back in and finishing the cut. I don't know I could have done it especially on the same saw. 
Give yourself a little time to heal while you wait for the TS to be "right". All this aggravation might be a blessing in disguise.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

One thing I have found very true of tables saws, much more so then any other power tool, is you get what you pay for. 6-7 years ago, I bought a saw for around $350. Worked okay until I started getting more demanding and requiring a bit more precision in my cuts. I got very dissatisfied with it very quickly. Issues included the fence coming apart, blade coming out of parallel to the mitre slots, blade not staying 90degrees to the table, and so on. The final blow was when I discoverd the table top itself was not flat, and was actually crowned around 1/16"! Hind-sight being 20/20 I realized that if I put in another couple hundred dollars, I would have gotten a much better saw that would have lasted for many years. I guess that is one of those life lessons. ;-)

Derek, the saw you now have is a good saw, even though it is need of repair. (Stuff happens sometimes) I really feel your experience will drastically improve once you get started on it.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

First I want to thank every one for being so supportive about this. I know it is really a minor thing, but to me it is big.

I have been dreading reading this post and thread again....even stayed away from the forum all day because of it. 

Still not able to get any action out of sears, the table saw I just bought isn't listed on the website when I go there. The reviews I read about it early this morning went from "It is a terrible fence" to "It is a wonderful fence" so no real clue until our information gets into sear's system and we get the service call out here. Just glad it has in home service and that on top of that my Wife bought the extended warranty.

What really bothers me about the accident is what led to the purchase of this saw was the safety factor. I was previously using a cheap Pro-tech benchtop saw (mounted on a stand). First time I used it I had kick back that gave me a huge, approximately 1/8" thick hangnail on my thumb and I was even made to go to the doc for it from my Wife as she thought it might need stitches. I never ever got that saw to work with it's safety equipment and even had pieces of the blade guard shoot back at me when I thought I had finally gotten everything aligned. It almost always shot what ever was ripped back and often even shot back cross cuts. Just never again like it did that first time. So when I get the new saw home this winter I was all excited until I saw the fence was the same style, ie extra cheap. But it worked decent and I didn't ever have any kick backs. But then a week or so I started to notice that I wasn't cutting very straight and I just assumed it was my technique and that I wasn't keeping the piece flat against the fence. It wasn't under yesterday morning that I saw what was happening to the fence.

This of course was after being hit in the chin with the blade guard and being knocked down. I was trying to get back up on the horse so I didn't become afraid of using the saw.

I was already to return it, shut down woodworking for a year or more until I could save up enough to buy a decent one...probably more like 2 years if I was careful with the $90 I pull out of my check each month for presents, computers and the last few years to enable my Wife to just have the reserve for paying bills (that time period is over finally). But like I said earlier in this thread She and my parents decided they wanted me to continue wood working instead of just laying here in front of the computer or letting the dogs out for a few minutes a day or watching tv which is all I do during the winter.

So to have this other massive saw arrive broken really has me down in the dumps right now. Which is an easy enough place for me to end up anyways as my leg joints continuously degrade on me. While standing and just trying to help move the saw cabinet onto a furniture dolly the friend who was helping was able to lift much more than I was which even 6 months ago wouldn't have been a possibility and would have even been a laughable discussion if we would have talked about him being able to lift even 1/4th of the weight I could. Now moving with any weight is a totally different story, as one or another leg joint would have said "NO WAY, GET THIS OFF OF ME".

I am also starting to hurt more from being knocked down on my butt from the incident 

If the sears guy doesn't end up putting the saw all the way together when he fixes it, I am going to end up buying an electric hoist or a lift table from Harbor Freight to get the motor cabinet up onto the stand. There is no way I am going to attempt it or let my Wife help me attempt it Been wanting the hoist or lift table for years anyways.  just wish this months ad would come out so I could see if any were on sale so I can get the sale price plus the 20% off coupon  See I found a bright side in it all.

I do know that when all is done I should have a very good saw. The motor runs the blades off of belts (or so I think I read in the manual), it is inclosed in the cabinet like a benchtop or cabinet saw is, it has a 4" dust port part that mounts right into it so I don't have to cut a hole for it like I was going to have to with the other saw. It is cast iron, not aluminum, it actually has full 3/4" miter slots...or seems to as it the bar from the rockler crosscut sled fit it.

Sometimes everything that has happened makes me wish I would have looked and looked on craigslist for a good deal. Then I remember that updated safety equipment is what drove this whole purchase in the first place. Having a riving knife always in place has made things a lot safer all by itself. 

Going to feel sorry for who ever moves this thing in 18 months or so if we finally get to buy or build our one level with no steps house...can be more than one level, but can't be like this house that has steps to get around no matter if you want the upstairs or the walkout basement. You have to do a half flight of stairs no mater what and I need to get away from that.

Not going to re-edit this message for mistakes like I normally do as I just realized it is 10:30pm and I think I started a hour ago right before my Wife asked me to watch tv. I just hope I don't get hit by some character limit like I once did on a private message.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

CanuckGal said:


> Derek I originally had a Sears TS similar to your first one posted above. That thing ALWAYS scared the heck out of me. When I decided to take this hobby more seriously it was the first thing I got rid of.
> I am very glad you were not hurt more seriously. Maybe fate is helping you out here and in the end you will end up with a much better TS and your woodworking will become more pleasurable. You have had an injury and you might need a little time to recover both physically and mentally, but kudos to you for jumping right back in and finishing the cut. I don't know I could have done it especially on the same saw.
> Give yourself a little time to heal while you wait for the TS to be "right". All this aggravation might be a blessing in disguise.


I had to finish it. I once got hurt diving off the board (I swam constantly for a few years while younger on doctors orders) and it took me months to dive off again.

The next time I got hurt was helping dad cut pallets with a chain saw. He was cutting but it was my arm it bounced across several times. Nothing severe enough to go to the hospital for, but I think I remember at least 10 bounces/cuts in my arm from wrist to elbow on the underside. Happened at age 15. Once we went in, bandaged it up and had some water to cool down (we both sweat like crazy) I went right back out and helped finish. Had me scared whenever I helped him cut pallets until I was made to stop by the doctors 15 years later. But I had to conquer the fear.

I don't remember how many cuts partially because all of the scars except the one right next to the crook of my elbow are so faded away you can't see them. And even with that one you have to know where to look.

This all happened right as my mother, brother, aunt and some cousins were using my free tickets to the amusement park I worked as a landscaper. They were backing out as the saw bounced but didn't see it. We explained the shutting down and going in as I was thirsty and Dad had to go use the bathroom. Otherwise it would have ruined at least my mother's day if not every one else who had driven almost a hundred miles to come up and use the tickets on the last weekend the place was open.

I don't think my mother ever found out until years later. I lived downstairs, normally wore either football jerseys or long sleeved flannel button shirts at the time, was gone early and home late as I went to a private school 20 some miles away and was the manager of the football team. Was only upstairs to eat or leave or enter the house, plus I did my own laundry.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Update or lack of. Still not showing up in Sear's database for the new saw, but also negative on Sear's claims/public relations people calling my Wife back which is separate from the new saw showing up in the database as the old saw still shows up.

Getting a little irritated with Sears about the lack of response. 

As for me, just feeling the fall a bit more, spent most of the day and night sleeping. Don't know what I would do if I wasn't already prescribed heavy duty pain killers. 

Part of me is very anxious for the new saw to be fixed and set up, part of me is dreading it. Probably more information than most want to know or care about.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I know the anxiety of waiting for any new tool is hard, but sounds like the rest will do you good. I don't know if it's age related or not but I often find if I get "knocked" around, ususally at work, it takes a couple of days before I feel the full brunt of it. Then of course there is the age problem where I can't remember what happened to make me feel that way. 

I am sure Sears is trying to figure out the best way to cover their behind right now, considering your injury. Be careful what you sign.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Our friend who was the manager who helped my Wife and friend at the store got very wide eyed when she was told it knocked me down as I am a massively sized guy. Something like a tank. 

I used to bounce back right away from everything, but it has gotten so that just leaving the house to go some where takes 1-2 days of almost nothing but sleep to recover. Part of my problem with not noticing when I get hurt is the pain pills I take, plus the fact with the amount of pain I have always dealt with since I was 4 years old or so, it takes a lot to make me notice things when it is a bump or a fall or that type of thing. I also used to never bruise and have had more bruises in the last 6 months than my whole previous life. The previous number was under 10. It has had me freaking out a bit until I got used to it. Doc says it is just aging and become normal instead of sort of a freak (he said it nicer). Me want to go back to age 14-21 when I could still handle the pain without pills and could still work. Not be a bit over 2 months from age 45 and having to realize those good days will never come back. My Wife says it is my age catching up towards my attitudes about stuff, since I turned into an old fart so young. Only I often feel I should still be in my 20's just like any one else in their 40's who thinks the time slipped away much to fast from youth to middle age.

And the convoluted post just revealed the multiple crazy people that are residing inside of me :jester::help::jester::agree::sarcastic::jester::haha:


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Update. The repair man is supposed to be here sometime between 1pm and 5pm Saturday. Don't know if this will mean it actually gets repaired then as my prior experience with service calls like this it normally means 1 trip to figure out what part to get, wait for that part to arrive on our doorstep and then call the repair guy back for another trip. There is also the option of just a total replacement. 

I can not find the saw on Sear's website anymore but it is in the most recent ad, or so I was just told. Haven't seen the ad yet.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Keep the faith good buddy, start out slow and try to do some fun things when you get going again. Do keep intouch with folks on the forum. I can't recall if Deb has said anything about it but she had a run in with her saw. Keep us posted with what happens.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I really want to get back to it as I was right in the middle of my hardest cabinet try yet. Trying to build a large cabinet with a small one as part of it hanging off the upper right hand side. The top and shelf of the larger cabinet will be the top and the bottom of the smaller one. I was cutting one of those pieces (identical) when the blade guard came off and the other one when I noticed the fence was moving so much. I went back and checked the first piece and it too went out of line about 1/2" over 12. It was attached to another 30" of plywood behind it when the cuts were done so I was placing pressure against the fence, but it still shouldn't have done it.

I looked at the part that clamps the fence down on the front and if they had doubled the size of the piece of metal or even tripled it it would still have had plenty of room available plus it would have made the fence much, much more stable. Really makes me want one of those super expensive incra ones.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Hey Derek, how did it go on Saturday? Did you get your table saw going?


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

just confirmed what I thought was wrong, a broken main trunnion. Won't be repaired until next Tuesday  Add in a computer that decided to go bad too and I have been going stir crazy here. Not going to have my partially new computer up until Sunday so going to be a super long week for me. 

It takes two guys to repair the table saw and next Tuesday was the nearest open slot with two guys free at the same time.

As for a computer, I am lucky that my father's broken laptop wasn't as broken as he thought and I been able to get it working. Very hard typing though as I am on of those people who will normally only use certain keyboards. So will be a quiet me until I move this over and use my monitor and keyboard with it. Just glad I was able to get passwords off it before my old one shut down all the way.


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