# T-track or no t-track?



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Not technically a router table per se... but puts a whole new spin on the whether to install t-track or not question!

Woodworking Tool News - Rockler Multi-Function T-track Tabletop - Woodworking Tools - American Woodworker


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Well, it looks like a good idea. At $230 I could buy 150 bf of wormy maple. And, if I had one--the t-tracks would be an inch too far apart or on inch too close together for anything I was working on. At least it seems like that's always how it turns out...

earl


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

greenacres2 said:


> Well, it looks like a good idea. At $230 I could buy 150 bf of wormy maple. And, if I had one--the t-tracks would be an inch too far apart or on inch too close together for anything I was working on. At least it seems like that's always how it turns out...
> 
> earl


Yeah, have to agree with you, Earl. Been having the same problem with clamps!


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

They are proud of it.


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## WurliTzerwilly (Jun 9, 2013)

Sorry, the link won't open for me!

I would fit either a square miter track or a tee track to any router table. It will allow you to use a sliding miter attachment or feather boards, which can prove very useful.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

At $229.99 for the top, and $159.99 for the rather lame stand, that's a lot of money. If I were doing work that I wanted something to hold down my wood like that, what I'd do is get a nice solid top, maybe a solid core door, lay out a grid, then drill holes all over it. Then I could put bolts thru the holes, and clamp down whatever. Then with the odd shaped pieces, you'd still be able to get clamps on it. I like overkill, so I'm thinking I would put my holes maybe 4" apart, which would allow putting in more later at 2" apart. And I'd sure make a sturdier looking stand.

Ah, if only I had the space, I'd use an entire solid core door for the top, then another along the full length underneath, with yet another door, cut in half, under from front to back. Now that would be solid.

When you buy something like that, not only is it expensive, but you're limited by what the designer/maker thinks is good, and it may not accomplish quite what you want. If you design and make it yourself, you are able to make something that is suited to what you do. And it's a lot more fun doing it that way too.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm with you Theo. I have a very cheap ACE H'ware 5' wood workers table. With the side and end vises and bench dogs I've been able to secure just about everything that's come up so far. If I did go the T-Track route for an assembly table I'd just buy some Incra tracks off Amazon to mount in the table I have.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is one more "Must have" item I will never buy. Alan, there is really no need for a miter slot or T tracks on a router table. You can guide anything off the fence and you can clamp accessories in place quick and easy. This is part of the "Keep it simple" methods taught by the guys from the Router Workshop which was on our PBS for 14 seasons. I agree, simple is better as far as I'm concerned. If you use a miter slot or T tracks then your fence must be in exact alignment with them or you can get a pinch which creates kick back like on a saw table.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

On the flip side, I have a miter track in the surface of the table, and wish it was a miter track and t-slot combination. My next router table will have just that. If I am using a miter gauge in conjunction with the fence, I use it in the same manner I would on the table saw, putting a spacer block so that the work piece isn't against both the fence and miter gauge (or coping sled). I also have feather boards that very quickly and easily attach via t-slots or the miter gauge that get used frequently as well. It really is a matter of preference. Many of the methods and setups I use on the router table really are just as simple as what was shown on the router workshop, just a different way of doing it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a couple of the Kreg clamp tracks on my work table. They come in handy for holding stuff in position so it won't move...like boards that I am routing dadoes in.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

JOAT said:


> If I were doing work that I wanted something to hold down my wood like that, what I'd do is get a nice solid top, maybe a solid core door, lay out a grid, then drill holes all over it. Then I could put bolts thru the holes, and clamp down whatever. Then with the odd shaped pieces, you'd still be able to get clamps on it. I like overkill, so I'm thinking I would put my holes maybe 4" apart, which would allow putting in more later at 2" apart. And I'd sure make a sturdier looking stand.


Theo
Why go to all that trouble of drilling holes?? Just use wood screws. If the door ever got to holey buy a new one. For that price you could buy enough doors to last a lifetime.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Daikusan said:


> Theo
> Why go to all that trouble of drilling holes?? Just use wood screws. If the door ever got to holey buy a new one. For that price you could buy enough doors to last a lifetime.


I like holes, and you can get long bolts, for holding down thick stuff.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

I put a couple of 48" t-tracks in my workbench, not my router table. They come in very handy, and my workbench is extremely versatile.

it is one of those new-fangled workbenches.

i use the tracks to fasten things like dado guides, planing stops, etc to the bench. there are lots of uses for t-tracks.


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

Chris,

this sounds very practical - could you perhaps share a photo of your bench, to get a better idea?

Thanks,
Martin


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

MartinW said:


> Chris,
> 
> this sounds very practical - could you perhaps share a photo of your bench, to get a better idea?
> 
> ...


here is the build thread:

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/40237-new-fangled-bench-build.html


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

That's a good idea, Chris,

thanks for the picture and reference

Martin


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

here is another guy who uses t-tracks in his bench ... he makes more use of his t-tracks than i do right now.

Versatile small shop work bench - unique! - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

Chris,

that's some nice examples - thanks a lot.

My worries would be the holding power against lengthwise sliding of the locked screw in the track.
I'll keep it in mind - maybe it can be used in slightly different ways still..... <mental gears slowly ticking>

Martin


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

MartinW said:


> My worries would be the holding power against lengthwise sliding of the locked screw in the track.
> I'll keep it in mind - maybe it can be used in slightly different ways still..... <mental gears slowly ticking>
> 
> Martin


My experience with T-track that if I twist the know tight, the screw wont budge. Let me qualify that with, I do have the tendency to over torque things when Im not careful. My fellow workers would complain about loosening the screws I tightened. I did learn to tighten the small screws with my fingers using the shaft not the handle. Using the tracks you should be fine; I would be more worried about pulling the tracks out than the screw moving.


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

Steve,

especially that potential over torque of the vise was in my thoughts.....

I'm not worried about the holding power of the construction adhesive I'm using - 20kg/cm² should be enough. And since normal t-tracks are hard to come by here, I will probably use system 6 (or profile 6) aluminum rails from a company called "item" - they have a profile of 30mm x 16mm, so each centimeter length of profile glued into a groove will then hold about 100kg.

Martin


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## dc_ni (Jul 6, 2013)

Would be easy enough to make it yourself. Buy a piece of wood, route slots in the top and fit t track. When you want to use it clamp onto the workbench. Would be a hell of a lot cheaper to.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

MartinW said:


> Steve,
> 
> especially that potential over torque of the vise was in my thoughts.....
> 
> ...


Hmm glue interesting, I have used screws and sometime worry about pulling them out. A combination is certianly a thought.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

i used glue one time to connect a track to a jig. it worked great, until the jig had become obsolete. i had a heck of a time getting the track off the jig so i could reuse it.

now i try to stay away from gluing it down if there is any chance that i might want to separate them in the future.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> i used glue one time to connect a track to a jig. it worked great, until the jig had become obsolete. i had a heck of a time getting the track off the jig so i could reuse it.
> 
> now i try to stay away from gluing it down if there is any chance that i might want to separate them in the future.


What kind of glue, Chris?

Seems like Liquid Nails would be a permanent deal. I have some, just haven't used it.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> What kind of glue, Chris?
> 
> Seems like Liquid Nails would be a permanent deal. I have some, just haven't used it.


it was some 3M glue that said it was for wood and metal. I don't remember exactly which one it was ... that was like 2 years ago now


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

I looked it up - I have been using Pattex construction adhesive extra strong (2nd strongest to super strong).
And I agree - getting those rails separated out from the wood groove again would be close to impossible.

Martin


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Mike said:


> Alan, there is really no need for a miter slot or T tracks on a router table.


To some, perhaps. I find them very useful.
Remember, Mike. Personal preference. Nobody needs to be told they're useless.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> i used glue one time to connect a track to a jig. it worked great, until the jig had become obsolete. i had a heck of a time getting the track off the jig so i could reuse it.
> 
> now i try to stay away from gluing it down if there is any chance that i might want to separate them in the future.


Good point.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

AxlMyk said:


> To some, perhaps. I find them very useful.
> Remember, Mike. Personal preference. Nobody needs to be told they're useless.


I can't say I have a habit of using t-tracks, but I don't have one mounted that hasn't been very handy at some point. Kind of like taking a sweater on a nice autumn day--I'd rather build it in and not use it than not have it and wish I did!!

earl


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

here is just one use i made tonight of the t-track on my bench: a guide for my circular saw.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, Most people read magazines and get the impression that you must have T tracks. The point I was trying to make is you do not have to have them... presenting information for consideration, not saying: "This is the right way." Everyone should work in their own comfort zone with what makes the most sense to them.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> here is just one use i made tonight of the t-track on my bench: a guide for my circular saw.


I like it. 

Have you thought of a piano hinge and a piece of wood that’s the width of the saw guide edge to the blade? Mines 118mm to the outside kerf. Flip the piece down and align it with the cut marks, flip it up and your ready to cut. There is no messing with measuring from your guide to the cut line that way.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Daikusan said:


> I like it.
> 
> Have you thought of a piano hinge and a piece of wood that’s the width of the saw guide edge to the blade? Mines 118mm to the outside kerf. Flip the piece down and align it with the cut marks, flip it up and your ready to cut. There is no messing with measuring from your guide to the cut line that way.


Neat idea! My Ryobi is pretty much exactly 1 1/2", so I can take a 2x and use that for the spacing. But a piano hinge jig would make it even easier to set it up, no doubt.

thanks


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mike said:


> Mike, Most people read magazines and get the impression that you must have T tracks. The point I was trying to make is you do not have to have them... presenting information for consideration, not saying: "This is the right way." Everyone should work in their own comfort zone with what makes the most sense to them.


The last table I built I wanted to try a fence that used t-tracks and I thought while I was at I would put in a mitre groove. I installed the tracks for the fence and needed to use the table and thought that I would install the one for the mitre track when I needed it. Three years later it still isn't in.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> it was some 3M glue that said it was for wood and metal. I don't remember exactly which one it was ... that was like 2 years ago now


Well, my track is stuck like Chuck!
One side is through bolted, but the inner side wasn't accessible due to the bench frame running along underneath.

So, I used some Liquid Nails and several clamps. I let it cure overnight and now it is solid.

Happy, I am. The track I glued is the one on the near side of the bench.
Mike


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Daikusan said:


> I like it.
> 
> Have you thought of a piano hinge and a piece of wood that’s the width of the saw guide edge to the blade? Mines 118mm to the outside kerf. Flip the piece down and align it with the cut marks, flip it up and your ready to cut. There is no messing with measuring from your guide to the cut line that way.


I must say, I did not understand this at all earlier today--just now I read it again and it's perfectly clear. Great idea. I've been using a saw board for a while, that always works too.

earl


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

greenacres2 said:


> I must say, I did not understand this at all earlier today--just now I read it again and it's perfectly clear. Great idea. I've been using a saw board for a while, that always works too.
> 
> earl


Sorry it wasn’t so clear. Thanks for thinking it was great, it was a borrowed idea anyway. 

Saw boards work great. I kept misplacing mine or accidently using it for something before I realized it was my saw-alignment board (that was before painting my jigs and boards). Having the board attached keep its from getting misplaced.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Well, my track is stuck like Chuck!
> One side is through bolted, but the inner side wasn't accessible due to the bench frame running along underneath.
> 
> So, I used some Liquid Nails and several clamps. I let it cure overnight and now it is solid.
> ...


Mike 

I think your clamping pictures are right on. Thanks for sharing.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Steve--your post was perfectly clear. First time I read it during lunch, and it didn't sink in. After I got back to work, I figured if Chris thought it was a good idea then i needed to read it again. Sure enough--very simple and effective!! Don't know how i didn't get it the first time!!

earl


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

greenacres2 said:


> Don't know how i didn't get it the first time!!
> 
> earl


LOL Bad writing on my part. :lazy: 

Hope you will find other helpful items here on the forum too. Thanks for being a part of the forum and participating. I sure wish I had known about the forum back in 2011 when you joined.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> ...
> I figured if Chris thought it was a good idea then i needed to read it again.
> ...


heh, but sometimes my "good" ideas don't work out so well ... like that contraption I built for crosscutting wider stuff with my circular saw ... I have had more than a few opportunities to use it, but in practice, I have found it to be a pain to set the cut up and secure the wood in it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> heh, but sometimes my "good" ideas don't work out so well ... like that contraption I built for crosscutting wider stuff with my circular saw ... I have had more than a few opportunities to use it, but in practice, I have found it to be a pain to set the cut up and secure the wood in it.


Would some clamps like these work for you. While they are part of the hold down kit for the Grizzly track, they also work great for other clamping situations.

I have the Scheppach Track Saw and it and the tracks are identical to the Griz model. My saw came with 2 tracks which equal about 55 inches when connected. I bought the Grizzly track and that more than covers an 8 foot sheet of plywood once connected. The clamps fit in grooves on the underside of the track so you can clamp to your work surface and not interfere with the saw.

And the clamp kit is cheaper than just the clamps from other mfg's such as Makita, Festool and Dewalt.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

I am still debating about adding a pair of T-tracks to a new work bench and have noted comments from others that the T-tracks from Rockler and Incra are not cross compatible with their respective jigs etc. Any history there? Having been stung by the lack of compatibility between mfgs. of dust collection components I'm a bit wary. 
Thanks in advance.

Cheers
Jon


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

The reason that table top is so expensive is that their own intersection kits are $21.99 each, and there are six of them on that table. $132 right there. Figure about three 4' sections to cover the remaining T-track and that's $210. If you were to look at it strictly that way, there's no way you could duplicate that item exactly for that price. In that respect, if you like it, it's a great value.

I like T-track, it's very versatile. It holds my fence on my (old) router table, it's on my miter saw station. However to use as a hold down table, you don't really need that much. Now if they made a router table top in that configuration (minus the center track, obviously) I might be interested.


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