# Help with router and table



## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

Hello, my name is David and this is my first post.

I just purchased a Ryobi rel180pl plunge router. I also purchased the Ryobi beginner router table. I set it all up and have done some things that turned out fairly well but I have a few questions.

1. When using a table router, how often do you need to adjust the height of the bit? Setting the depth of my router while on the table is very awkward and almost impossible. 

2. When the router depth is set as deep (or high since it is on a table) as it will go but the bit does not clear the top of the table and I have to raise it up half and inch. It almost takes 3 hands to get the bit to the correct height. Fine adjustments are practically impossible. Is this normal?

I am worried that when I get to the point where I am doing more things like joints and such that not having the ability to precisely set the height of the bit is going to hinder my ability to create adequate shaping. I believe the router’s bit dept while not on the table will be easy to do but this router definitely seems like it wasn’t meant for table use.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

David


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello David and welcome to the Router forums. Don't have a Ryobi router, so I can't help you there, but one of our members will surely have a answer.


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## woodchip7 (May 21, 2007)

David welcome to the forum. What you are experiencing is what we or most of us have experienced in our beginnings. When starting out with power tools we tend to buy what we can afford and don't get to excited about all the expensive stuff out there. Well if you get hooked on woodworking, give it up your going to spend some money.

To answer your questions. You'll raise the bit as often as you change the profile you are cutting. They are a bear to adjust there's no getting around that. I had a Hitachi plunge router in a Wolfcraft table for awhile and it was a chore to adjust the height. What I usually did way lay the table on it side. Seemed to help. I would probably say plunge routers for convience sake anyway don't work very well in table application. But you have a router and a table so have fun with it and don't be discouraged. Whatever you do don't get frustrated with the setup, that's how you learn. Forums are good places to get ideas, opinions and advice. Here is a pic of my newest router table. Porter Cable 3 1/4hp router with Jessem lift and later added the INCRA router fence. All that was a little over a grand. Cabinet was the cheapest part as most of the material was free.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi David

If you don't make it easy to use you will not use it...
It wil become just one more tool in the shop taking up room.
It's a great tool and it needs to move up and down easy, not by to much ..

I would suggest you put the router table you now have to one side and make a simple box router table, (table top type box) then pickup a drop in plate and mount the router to it, you can also remove the springs if you want ,it will make it a bit easyer to move the router up or down in the box...or you can just pop it out and set it up then drop it back in the table top...

Here's some links that will help

http://wealdentool.com/acatalog/tips_18.html 
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94331
http://www.routerworkshop.com/mark1.html?list=R600--


AFter you have used it for a bit then you want to make a floor model type...to hold a bit router ( 3 1/4HP ) type .


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djonesax said:


> Hello, my name is David and this is my first post.
> 
> I just purchased a Ryobi rel180pl plunge router. I also purchased the Ryobi beginner router table. I set it all up and have done some things that turned out fairly well but I have a few questions.
> 
> ...


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

Here is table model number...
a25rt01

Here is the router model number...
RE180PL

I tried pasting links to sites with specs but the system wouldnt allow it. Why can you guys post links but not me? Am I doing something wrong?

Don’t get me wrong, I love the router and table. It's been awesome. Since I bought it a couple weeks ago, I have build a Red Oak 6ft long sofa table and matching speaker stands. I love what I can do with it. I used a keyhole bit to create a channel for the hiding the speaker wire in the stands and used the round over and cove bits for extra detail in different places. My goal was to match my current furniture, which seemed to work out good.

It’s just that when I encounter things like I have encountered. They don’t seem right to me and I start thinking I may have bought a lemon but don’t have enough experience to know better and don’t have anyone that knows anything about this stuff to ask. Until I found this forum....

Would I have been better off purchasing a fixed base router for the table? The first set I purchased was a router and table combo from Ryobi but I took it back because I felt like it was worth spending an extra 80 bucks for a better router and a better table. 


Man, I have so many questions, I apologize.

So here are my questions now...

1. Can I remove the springs from the rel180pl router?
2. How do I accurately set the depth of the router when it is mounted to a table? The thickness of the table prevents the bit from achieving full depth and I have to pull the bit up (which doesn’t seem safe to me) just to clear the table. Should I make a jig for measurement or something?
3. If I have to purchase a bit extension for $60.00 would I be better off just taking my router back to Home Depot and purchasing a better one, or will I need a bit extension for that too?
4. I many have an opportunity to purchase a craftsman table router and router with bits for $75. If it is a decent fixed base router should I buy it and use it in place of my plunge? I guess what I am asking is would a fixed base router be a better fit for a router table? I could keep the plunge for table free operations.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Did you take the plastic base plate off the router base? That will add some height to the bit. It is not necessary to drop the bit as deep in the collet as it will go. You can lift it up.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi David

"I tried pasting links to sites with specs but the system wouldnt allow it"
It's a SPAM block thing built into the system, you will need to post 10 items b/4 you can post a URL Link ...

Table
http://hardwareaisle.thisoldhouse.com/2007/12/router-table.html
Router
http://products.howstuffworks.com/ryobi-re180pl-20-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-review.htm
=========

"Would I have been better off purchasing a fixed base router for the table?"
Yes,,,,, BUT I would suggest a combo set  in that way you have the best of both worlds.....the Sears Craftsman 2 HP VS,soft start,and you adjust the router height from the top of the table with a long Allen Hex Key , all for about 100.00 bucks.

As for the table make your own, or buy a top from Rockler for about 150.oo or so then but in on some saw horses or just about any cabinet you have.

The router table you have is a pain in the neck,,as you now know it's nice looking but ....

Many things come into play with type of table,,it's hard to get the bit in place, then it's hard to adjust the bit, you can only use the small router bits, the key word for this table is ("beginner's" model ) 

-----------
1. Can I remove the springs from the rel180pl router?= Yes but why do that.

2. How do I accurately set the depth of the router when it is mounted to a table? = see the note about the Craftsman router combo.

The thickness of the table prevents the bit from achieving full depth and I have to pull the bit up (which doesn’t seem safe to me) just to clear the table. = same as number two and this is why you would want to use a drop in plate in the table top..

Should I make a jig for measurement or something? = no,, just pickup some brass bars for that job.

3. If I have to purchase a bit extension for $60.00 would I be better off just taking my router back to Home Depot and purchasing a better one, or will I need a bit extension for that too?
= you don't need the extension the norm but they do come in handy,,,see number two again...

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...BV_EngineID=cchfaddkdkhdelgcefecemldffidflk.0

http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=90&filter=router table

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djonesax said:


> Here is table model number...
> a25rt01
> 
> Here is the router model number...
> ...


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

AxlMyk,

My router doesnt have a plastic base on it. I did look for a removable base though.


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

Bob,

I thought that if I removed the springs maybe I could adjust the depth easier. The problem I have is that the springs are so tight that if I push up on the router I will lift up the table.

I though that by purchasing a plunge router that I was getting the best of both worlds but now I see that that was not the case. There seems to be a place for both. I was under the impression the since it was a plunge, i could just set it at max dept and have a fixed... All though I can do that it makes it too hard to adjust the depth for table use. 

So my questions now...

1. So now if I understand all this correctly, I should take back my Ryobi and purchase a Combo Router that can have the height adjusted from the top of the table. I plan on using the router on a table more that free hand.

2. With a fixed based router can I set what the zero depth or max depth on the gauge should be after I install it on the table? Other wise reading the dept would take some simple math right?

3. I found a website that for the Ryobi Beginner Router Table it seems to list every craftsman model number except for the one you have suggested which is 17543 at sears. It does support these...
models – 17504, 17505, 17506, 17508, 17510, 17511, 17515, 17517, 17533 combo, 24833 combo, 27500, 26921
Do you think that the 17543 is just the newer version of the 17533 Combo and it would fit my table just fine?

4. I realize that the table is a beginner table and could be better but the table seems to suit me fine. Do you think I'll be able to get to the height adjustment of the craftsman router from the top of this table or will I need a new table too?

Thanks for all the help,

David


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi David

1. Yes, I would ,you don't need to buy the craftsman they have may combo setups.

2. Most fixed based routers don't have a depth gauge so to speak because you don't need it on the router table,,

3. the 17543 is a newer model and I'm almost sure it will work for you but if not it's not a big deal to drill some holes to mount it.


4. if you still want to use the table you now have I would suggest you lift it in some way with 4 x 4 blocks or what ever , to get more room under the top for the router to move up or down down and to pull the router motor out of the bottom side when it bolted down like it should be to the work bench..you don't want it to tip over when you are using it and you should not flip it on it's side to get the motor out..
Pulling it out the bottom will make it easy to install a router bit.


5. with craftmans you will need to drill a hole in the top to get to the device to move it up or down from the top side...




djonesax said:


> Bob,
> 
> I thought that if I removed the springs maybe I could adjust the depth easier. The problem I have is that the springs are so tight that if I push up on the router I will lift up the table.
> Hi David
> ...


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## George II (Nov 8, 2007)

David,

Welcome. I do have the same Ryobi router and table. The base plate is about 1/32 thick and glued on no reason to remove it..The springs are next to impossible to remove..do not try..In the back of your manual you will find a optional adjusting knob...buy one that makes table adjustment easy whilst the router is mounted.

Now comes the fun part...If you plan to use template and guide bushings you will find it is time to buy or make another table. While the ryobi is a good router, as you progress with your router skills you will want to get another router and table. I am now at three outers and making another table.

Keep in touch and please, please, don't be afraid to ask questions

Best Regards,
The other George


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

Bob,

Why dont you need a depth gauge when using a router on a table? dont you need to set certain bits at certain heights? Here is a simple example that may help me understand how this works? when you are say using a tongue and groove bit set or some other jointery bit. how do you get the bit aligned perfectly? What is the process involved.


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

George,

So I can get an add on knob to adjust the height? that might be nice.

What are template and guide bushing? Is this for helping to align joints like dove tails?

What are the major differences between my router and a better router?

Thanks,

David


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

djonesax said:


> Bob,
> 
> Why dont you need a depth gauge when using a router on a table? dont you need to set certain bits at certain heights? Here is a simple example that may help me understand how this works? when you are say using a tongue and groove bit set or some other jointery bit. how do you get the bit aligned perfectly? What is the process involved.


Typically, you use brass bars to do all your setups. Also, the thickness of material will determine you bit setup.

An example of bushings/guides: http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=BG-BGST-&product=BG034

Hope this helps you.


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## AlanWS (May 2, 2007)

djonesax said:


> George,
> 
> So I can get an add on knob to adjust the height? that might be nice.
> 
> ...


Specific answers are within the quote, but I also wanted to say that a good book on router use is likely to be very helpful. There is a lot to know, and some questions are hard to think of, but important to answer. Pat Warner and Bill Hylton are two good authors on routers. Warner's solutions are a bit different from most other people's, but he has the best safety information, and his methods can lead to the highest precision. Hylton shows you how to do everything. Other authors may be just as good, but these two I can recommend strongly.

Alan


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI David

Setting the bit height.
You can use a Router Depth Gauge , they look like the one you may use for the table saw but most of the time the brass bars work the best,,,
No hard fast rule for setting the bit for T & G sets,,,all wood is not the same.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5707&filter=router guage
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=bars--

You can make your own setup blocks but the same rule will come into play ,all wood is not the same,, I use the 1/8" rule, that's to say I always leave 1/8" of stock on one edge...and not less than..

T & G bits
The key to get them to come out right ever time is to use a matched set with a rubber gromet in the collet nut, this gives you a stopping point for the bits.

Some will use the rule put it in and pull it out by 1/16" or so ,it's hard to do this the same way over and over...

I would recommend you send off for one or more of the DVD's from sommerfeld tools,,,
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/list.asp?d=118&p=1

I push them all the time because they are that good...
If you can get the full set, do it , I sure you will like them. 
many,many tips and how to use the router...



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djonesax said:


> Bob,
> 
> Why dont you need a depth gauge when using a router on a table? dont you need to set certain bits at certain heights? Here is a simple example that may help me understand how this works? when you are say using a tongue and groove bit set or some other jointery bit. how do you get the bit aligned perfectly? What is the process involved.


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## George II (Nov 8, 2007)

David,

The optional depth adjusting nob stands above the motor housing. You reach under the table, unlock the base and turn the knob either up or down and re-engage the base lock..Makes life much easier. Your router table really should be anchored to something solid. 

As others have suggested you will need some brass bars to set the height.
(router height set up kits) I don't know what bits or brand you are using but a you replace your present ones do no go cheap / inferior bits. ASK others as to there preference. I use Bosch, Katana, MLCS, and Woodline. 

David, be patient and if in doubt please ask. We are all family here as for myself I am just starting over again and this forum has bee a wealth of knowledge, use it..

Best Regards,
The Other George







djonesax said:


> George,
> 
> So I can get an add on knob to adjust the height? that might be nice.
> 
> ...


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## jbishop (Feb 2, 2007)

David,
I have Ryobi fixed base router and the table combo, I also like you bought the starter kit and have the same problems with the bits not going high enough. It was a bear to set, and to try to do any thing with. The bits work ok if I am doing regular router stuff. I bought a Sears 2hp plunge router that mounted in the table, got some bits that had longer shanks on them, and things are going better. Not trying to spend your money, but go ahead and get, for now some better bits. John


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

I bought the 25 peice ryobi bit set for $90 when I got the router. I have broken one already and was going to try to exchange it. The price is inline with the woodline and the MLCS sets. will these sets be much better than the Ryobi set?


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## George II (Nov 8, 2007)

Ryobi bits are OK..I have two in my meager collection. In my opinion the MLCS are good bits, a lot of the folks on this forum use them so they must be OK. I do have some Ryobi tools in my cave and they do what is expected of them. 

The other George




djonesax said:


> I bought the 25 peice ryobi bit set for $90 when I got the router. I have broken one already and was going to try to exchange it. The price is inline with the woodline and the MLCS sets. will these sets be much better than the Ryobi set?


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

Ok after all this, my head is spinning. I feel like I have unlocked a whole new world of tools and techniques. I had no idea that the router world was so huge. The funny thing is that when I first saw this forum, I was surprised because I couldn’t understand why a router would need such a large forum. Now I see why....


So I think I understand this all a lot better now. It’s just scary because, now I have a whole new area to start spending money on. 

I just went to sears and looked at the Craftsman fixed plunge combo. All I had to do was look at it and instantly I knew that it was perfect for what need. The collet clears the router base with out even having to remove the base plate. I am sure that this will clear the top of my table. When it is in fixed mode, the adjustment is sooo easy, all I have to do is unlock the motor and spin the dial. I love it already and haven’t even used it. I am going to take my Ryobi back to Home Depot tonight. Also I am going to return my bits because Sears has a craftsman set with more bits for the same price. 

I think, sears is my new place for tools, they seem to have much better prices than Home Depot and possibly a better selection.

David


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi david,

Sears bits are "ok". Once you get used to using your router, as suggested by others. Start saving and looking for some higher end bits, MLCS, Whiteside, Katana, etc.

Welcome to the wonderful world of woodworking.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I bought one of those 66 piece sets on e-bay a few years ago. When they break or wear out I drive to Marsh Power tools and get Freud bits. 1/2" shank if they have them.


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

what is the benifit to having a half inch shank vs a quarter?


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## woodchip7 (May 21, 2007)

1/2 shank can handle larger dia. bits. Most routers today are adaptable for both 1/4 and 1/2" just by changing the collet. Don't buy a router that is only 1/4". You will regret that down the road. As your experience grows you'll want to get into the larger bits. Craftman...I can't tell you much about. I know 100 years ago they made good tools but I haven't owned anything by Craftman in years. My first router was a Craftman and I was good enough at the time. If you have a woodworking store around your area I would suggest paying them a visit. Usually they are pretty helpful and can help beginners get started. I say USUALLY.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

1/2" shanked bits IMHO are really the best. Stability and strength. As I've said before, Craftsman are "ok". In the future, as you gain experience you'll find you'll be wanting some higher end bits. Whiteside, Katana are just a few of the many brands available. If you asked which one people prefer, you'll receive a very long list. Each person is different, each has his/her own preference. Just like with routers, you have to decide which you like and prefer.


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## djonesax (Feb 27, 2008)

I used my new craftsman router and bits yesterday to cut some dados for a bookcase I am building. It seems to work ok but I feel like it didnt cut as well as the Ryobi router and ryobi bits that I took back to Home Deport. I wonder if the Ryobi bits were sharper.

I was looking on the MLCS website and I can get this set for $10.00 than what I paid for my craftsman set.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/set30piece.html

I currently have this set.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...Name=Power+Tool+Accessories&sName=Router+Bits

I know I can alway replace my craftsman bits with better ones when then die but if I can return mine to sears and get this for $10.00 more. Should I? Also the MLCS bits in this set are 1/2" shanks.

David


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

This is what I would suggest,,

Keep your Sears set and send off for the set below
You can't have to many router bits... 

http://cgi.ebay.com/30-pc-1-2-Shank...50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


==========


djonesax said:


> I used my new craftsman router and bits yesterday to cut some dados for a bookcase I am building. It seems to work ok but I feel like it didnt cut as well as the Ryobi router and ryobi bits that I took back to Home Deport. I wonder if the Ryobi bits were sharper.
> 
> I was looking on the MLCS website and I can get this set for $10.00 than what I paid for my craftsman set.
> http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/set30piece.html
> ...


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## CarlJ (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi David,

I had a similar problem and I got around it by installing a car scissor jack underneath the plunge router and used it as a router lift. 

I unlock the plunging mechanism raise the router into position with the jack and then lock the plunging mechanism and lower the jack. To do this I also had to fasten the router table to a cabinet and fix the scissor jack to it. Seems to have worked very well for me....


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

CarlJ said:


> Hi David,
> 
> I had a similar problem and I got around it by installing a car scissor jack underneath the plunge router and used it as a router lift.
> 
> I unlock the plunging mechanism raise the router into position with the jack and then lock the plunging mechanism and lower the jack. To do this I also had to fasten the router table to a cabinet and fix the scissor jack to it. Seems to have worked very well for me....



Welcome to the forum, Carl.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Carl, you do realize this thread is 4-1/2 years old?


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## CarlJ (Aug 22, 2012)

whoops...


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