# What should be the next tool?



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I have two routers, a drill press, a miter saw and a 7 inch circular saw. I do not feel that affordable table saws are safe. I am considering band saws the most expensive of which is the Laguna 14 inch, and I am looking at others such as the Grizzley line and the Shop Fox 14 inch with the extenders. 
Am I thinking along the right lines or should I be looking at other things? I generally use big box lumber or local retail places; I am not aware of any lumber yards. I am an amateur hobbyist woodworker who first learned about router use from the Router Workshop and consider myself a student of Honored Member Harry.
One other consideration for those who do not know is that I am a paraplegic so live in a wheelchair.

Thanks very much.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have Laguna (Italian made) and it is one fine piece of equipment...

consider this table saw w/o the stand to make it friendlier/safer to use... (make your own stand)...
Bosch GTS1041A REAXX? Jobsite Table Saw Takes User Safety to the Next Level and Also Saves the Blade | Business Wire
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/table-saws-gts1041a-09-113798-p/


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Thanks @stick. Looks very promising. Any idea about the price?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It depends a lot on what type projects you like doing Tom but I can see a table saw being a problem because it requires a pretty good reach across if you are seated. Maybe a power feeder would solve that but small saws aren't really sturdy enough for them and they cost about the same as a small saw. 

I saw a Laguna BS at a woodworking show and I agree with Stick. It's almost like comparing a Corvair to a Cadillac compared to most other saws. I couldn't see any vibration so I put my hand on the frame and I couldn't feel any vibration either. The one odd thing I find about all bandsaws I've seen is that they are set up better for a left hander than a right hander. You could get close enough to the blade to work comfortably while seated but they aren't really made for sawing straight over any distance.

One machine that would be perfect for you is a scroll saw. Have you ever thought about scroll work? Everyone sits to do it.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom

As Charles says, the type of project you like to work on will really determine the tools that would be best suited.

However, I would also ask, have you considered hand tools? Power tools aren't the be all, end all and you can do some pretty good work without them.


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

On the saws your are considering, how high are the tables from the floor?

Too high and it will be very awkward or not possible to use and some cabinets can not be cut off/altered to lower the table height.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ray Newman said:


> On the saws your are considering, how high are the tables from the floor?
> 
> Too high and it will be very awkward or not possible to use and some cabinets can not be cut off/altered to lower the table height.


elevated floor...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> Thanks @stick. Looks very promising. Any idea about the price?


sorry...
no I don't...


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

Stick: what do you mean by an "elevated floor"?


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Tom
Chuck said it right A scroll saw can add a lot to a hobbyist work shop. I use mine often when making templates. Costs wise I see them all the time on craigs list


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

mftha said:


> I have two routers, a drill press, a miter saw and a 7 inch circular saw. I do not feel that affordable table saws are safe. I am considering band saws the most expensive of which is the Laguna 14 inch, and I am looking at others such as the Grizzley line and the Shop Fox 14 inch with the extenders.
> Am I thinking along the right lines or should I be looking at other things? I generally use big box lumber or local retail places; I am not aware of any lumber yards. I am an amateur hobbyist woodworker who first learned about router use from the Router Workshop and consider myself a student of Honored Member Harry.
> One other consideration for those who do not know is that I am a paraplegic so live in a wheelchair.
> 
> Thanks very much.


I have a Laguna 14" SUV (Souped Up Version, no kidding). If the price of admission doesn't stop you, the Laguna is an extremely fine bandsaw, maybe the best of the 14 inchers. 

However, I use my bandsaw maybe 1/10 as much as I use my tablesaw. I think you could arrange a jobsite saw such as the one Stick recommended so that you could safely use it while seated. If I could have only one power tool to do woodworking, I'd want it to be a table saw.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Price on the website is 1499 U.S. dollars. Interesting saw, nice features and of course, hard to beat Bosch for precision and customer service. Claims a 4 hp motor, which seems a little high for 110 v, but it doesn't specify voltage. It uses electronics so I wonder if they are converting AC to DC, in which case you get a lot of power and torque than with AC. I also like that it has a built in outfeed support. Supposed to come out in June. It is a jobsite saw, which means you can put it on a base you may be able to access more easily.

As to using a band saw, I thing the Laguna is about as good as it gets. With a 3/4 inch blade, I think it is going to cut pretty straight. Check out the table height to see if it is workable for you. I have a Laguna table saw, and it is a terrific machine. The president of Laguna is a perfectionist. I read that the company dictates very strict standards for its Tiawanese maker Getting the fence they make is extra, but really helps avoid drift. It is not exactly a substitute for a table saw, but it will likely do a good job in your situation.


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## bigmuddyriver (May 29, 2011)

*++ on the Laguna*

I agree that the Laguna is an amazing saw. I've had mine for almost a year and I'm impressed every time I use it. More money, but the Laguna Resaw King blade puts it over the top. I got mine free on a special deal that Woodcraft had when I bought the saw.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ray Newman said:


> Stick: what do you mean by an "elevated floor"?


if you can't lower the tool's table to Tom's comfortable work zone...
raise Tom to the tool... surround the tool w/ a platform/deck...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

The small Saw Stop https://www.ohiopowertool.com/p-15227-sawstop-jobsite-table-saw-10-15hp-with-mobile-cart-jss-mca.aspx?CAWELAID=120016460000028415&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CNPoiOzN_MsCFUYehgodEO0DXg costs about the same as a good bandsaw (~$1500) but may be more versatile - depending on what type of work you're planning to do. As far as access - there are articles showing how these "job site" saws have been added to a worktable by cantilevering it out from the end, this may allow wheelchair access under the saw if the top height is workable for you.


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## Gerry Kiernan (Jul 19, 2007)

Depending on what type of projects you are making a small three wheel band saw might be appropriate. They are light weight, and can be set up to any height you are comfortable working at. I do a fair amount of intarsia work, and find my little band saw to be the handiest tool to use. I find it easier to use than my scroll saw. A small table top table saw might also be useable, again because of lightness , and the ability to set it up to the height you are comfortable with.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Tom, I can envision something completely different: What about a section of Glu-Lam beam making a double cantilever from a wide central support? At the correct height, you could roll your chair under the cantilevers (at the opposite ends) and use quality power tools made for bench-top use. I would be happy to make you a drawing for this if you would benefit from it - just let me know. The Glu-Lam would be rotated to its side and lag bolts are a "piece-of-cake".

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

A fly in the ointment and from the OP's profile:

"No permanent shop; everything has to be moved outside, assembled, then work, then take apart and move back inside"

Just how easy/difficult will it be for the OP to move a BS from his chair? How likely is a BS to tip over? I lowered my old 14" Delta BS to accommodate my disability (wheelchair user due to bilateral above the knee amputations), securely fastened it to a wider and longer platform with casters to stabilize it while still allowing movement in the shop. Even so, it is still cumbersome to move around.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Ray Newman said:


> A fly in the ointment and from the OP's profile:
> 
> "No permanent shop; everything has to be moved outside, assembled, then work, then take apart and move back inside"
> 
> Just how easy/difficult will it be for the OP to move a BS from his chair? How likely is a BS to tip over? I lowered my old 14" Delta BS to accommodate my disability (wheelchair user due to bilateral above the knee amputations), securely fastened it to a wider and longer platform with casters to stabilize it while still allowing movement in the shop. Even so, it is still cumbersome to move around.


I am always impressed when I discover that a fellow woodworker is wheelchair bound and yet finds the way to enjoy our hobby.

Ray, thank you for mentioning that Tom has the even bigger problem of not having the luxury of an indoor workshop. This must make things even more inconvenient.

Given that restriction, it would make sense to use smaller more portable tools.

The typical bandsaw, as you mention, is pretty tall and very heavy. Certainly it could be moved on wheels. But a bandsaw does not naturally cut straight, as does a table saw. A wider blade helps, as mentioned, but even a 3/4" wide blade does not guarantee a straight cut. The one thing that really helps there is that the blade must be extremely sharp. The least dulling and a blade will wander.

FWIW, I see that The House of Pot has a week long special on a 10" Ridgid PORTABLE table saw, only $300 in Canada. Probably a whole lot less in the U. S. of A. Put a good blade in it and it might be just the ticket for Tom.

I'm going to grab one to use outside on the few days every year that we get good enough weather to work outside. OK, that last part isn't quite true...I have to trim several thousand feet of long cedar siding, and I think it will be far easier to do outside with practically unlimited room than in cramped interior quarters.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A full bodied bandsaw may be out of the question ie the Laguna, however the Grizz and Shop Fox saws can be purchased stand mounted. The original equipment base could be removed and a modified stand installed under the saw to lower the table height. A radial arm saw come to mind as well, again with a modified leg set lowering the saws table. Scrolling would open the doors to alot of possibilities. A wood lathe would be another consideration. Lots of possibilities there. Especially given the range of sizes lathes come in these days..a mini/midi lathe could be mounted on a pivoting base. Swinging out from a wall.....

just a few thoughts


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Oooops...mistake on the sale price of the Ridgid 10" portable table saw at the House of Pot.

It's $249 in Canada, (not $300) most likely less in the U. S. of A.


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

I think it would be advisable for the OP to locate and visit a few tool emporia for a "hands on" examination/observation of the various machines vis-a-vis his needs and disability.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Wow! What an amazingly informative thread. thank you all, @Stick486, @Cherryville Chuck, @vchiarelli, @Ray Newman, @paduke @DonkeyHody, @DesertRatTom, @bigmuddyriver, @tomp913, @Gerry Kiernan, @OPG3, @cocobolo1, @TwoSkies57

to answer some of the very important questions, my main projects are boxes, shelf units, cabinets. At the beginning of September I was stunned when Medicare approved a power wheelchair for me. I think the "severe osteoarthritis" in both thumbs, from 14 years in a manual wheelchair, that has caused diminished strength,was the key. the power chair has one sometimes downside, the motor is very powerful and several times either by my own mistake or with the assistance of my faithful 60 lb 4 legged decoration the footrests have been driven through the drywall, so I am planning to put lexan guards above the floor boards once the holes are sealed et. I also need to update my profile; @Ray Newman pointed out a "fly in the ointment" that I am trying to remove. I am working on getting 30 amp service to one room which I am converting to an indoor workshop. Then I will no longer have the problem of moving the tools in and out.
A comfortable workbench height for me is 29 inches. I am effectively 4' 4" tall, with long arms for someone of that height. The idea suggested by @Stick486 to raise the floor is interesting, but the ADA spec is 1 in rise/foot, and in a manual chair it is certainly realistic. I might need a ramp of 13 feet at least for some of the bandsaws to bring to my "comfort zone"

One issue of some concern is the noise. My profile picture shows the three dogs I once lived with. Only the rightmost is still with me, and he has very serious ADD (attention deficiency disorder). Among other things the control panel and drive joystick are at perfect dog petting height and he does drive the chair for me at some inopportune times. I am concerned the noise will damage his hearing. @Stick486 came up with a solution some time ago.

I still have a few questions.

What can be done with a table saw that cannot be done with a bandsaw or a router?
What can be done with a scroll saw that cannot be done with a bandsaw, and visa-versa?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> 1... the footrests have been driven through the drywall, so I am planning to put lexan guards above the floor boards once the holes are sealed et.
> 2... I am working on getting 30 amp service to one room which I am converting to an indoor workshop. Then I will no longer have the problem of moving the tools in and out.
> 3.... A comfortable workbench height for me is 29 inches. I am effectively 4' 4" tall, with long arms for someone of that height. The idea suggested to raise the floor is interesting, but the ADA spec is 1 in rise/foot, and in a manual chair it is certainly realistic. I might need a ramp of 13 feet at least for some of the bandsaws to bring to my "comfort zone"
> 4... One issue of some concern is the noise.
> ...


1... use aluminum diamond plate.. very strong.. way less hassle and a boatload cheaper...
2nd choice would be ¼' FRP... look nicer too...
2... I'm pretty sure 30 amp is going to be woefully inadequate...
3... stick w/ bench top tools that you can build individual stands/legs for to get their tables a uniform comfortable working height...
perhaps cantilevered stands to accommodate you and your chair...
work bench w/ different elevation ''pockets for the tools...
or larger tools but not cabinet type that you can modify their stands/legs to get what is best for you...
4... the dog's hearing???
5... get a lock out or a guard for the joystick...
surround the lever/handle w a short piece of pipe... the way it can't be accidentally hit from the side....
fiddle w/ the height and diameter of pipe as you see fit...
6... straight clean rips/cross cuts..
better joinery...
dadoes...
clean uniformity
inherent accuracy...
7... fretwork...

.


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## creative (Aug 17, 2015)

@mftha 

Scroll saws are uniquely suited for really intricate cuts on small sections of wood. Can be useful for making signs, crafts, and pieces of inlay - great example is jigsaw puzzle pieces. Users oftenprint out a pattern on paper, glue it to the wood, cut through the pattern lines, then remove the paper. I considered buying one when I started building my shop less than a year ago, but decided against it because I didn't think I'd use it often.

Bandsaws can be used to make curvy cuts like a scroll saw, but it's more difficult to make sharp turns in the cut, because the blade is a lot wider and moving with a lot more power behind it. Bandsaws are uniquely suited for resawing wood to create bookmatching lumber. For example, I could cut a long board that's 2x10in, into two long 1x10in boards, and when I fold them open (like a book) the patterns and color in the wood will be symmetrical on both boards. Bandsaws are also great for cutting thin strips of veneer, which can help reduce overall lumber costs.

Table saws are useful for cutting a straight edge into wood, since it puts the widest and stiffest blade into the wood. Table saws are also uniquely suited to use jigs, miter sleds, and crosscut sleds. Since the blade spins toward the user, kickback is a safety concern - i.e. if the saw is vibrating, and it bounces a cut piece of wood back into the blade, it can throw the wood at the user at high speed. Many table saws have anti-kickback attachments, and the operator can reduce their risk by staying to the side of the blade rather than directly behind it. The biggest drawback to tablesaws is depth of cut - the maximum depth of cut is typically less than 4 inches (contrast to bandsaws, many of which can achieve over 10in of cutting depth). 

When you're making your decision, consider ways you might use ramps, platforms, lifts, pulleys, etc. to adjust your position in a way that enables you to change blades and service the equipment. 

Other tools you might enjoy - a DW735x planer, a makita brushless cordless angle grinder and some attachments (i.e. diablo sanding discs, arbortech turbo plane, or king arthur's tools attachments), a router table with a router lift, a sliding double bevel compound miter saw, etc.

For the dog, consider buying some Mutt Muffs (Mutt Muffs Dog Ear Muffs - Ear Muffs), and maybe get some cottonballs to improve sound insulation and fit. Haven't tried them, but I know I saw something similar on military dogs that rode in helicopters.

Hope this helps and feel free to ask any follow up questions.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom - first let me tell you that I commend you for your attitude. You obviously haven't let your disability slow you down much.

Couple or more, questions for you:

You listed your projects as boxes, shelf units and cabinets and you also stated you primarily use big box lumber.

What type of cabinets are you building? I'm presuming their not kitchen/shop style cabinets???
If you are using wider panels, how are you breaking them down?

*What can be done with a table saw that cannot be done with a bandsaw or a router?*

What can be done with a table saw that can't be done with a circ saw and a good straight edge?


*What can be done with a scroll saw that cannot be done with a bandsaw, and visa-versa?*

What can be done with a bandsaw that can't be done with a good jig saw (other than resawing as mentioned above)?

And my last question would be: is there something that you feel you cannot do now, with the equipment at hand? There's a whole list of tools you could by next, but which do you really need?

Vince


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

For what it is worth. I Think the ointment just got a bit stickier.

What is the size of the room that you are considering making your shop? 

The room size and any door(s) and window(s) are factors in converting it. Consider needed space to maneuver your chair. As I am double leg amputee, I do have the foot pads on my manual wheel chair, it turns around in a 48" wide space and I "loose'' a space in my 24' x 30' shop as a result. The overall room size of and the width and depth of your chair will be factors as to what you will be able to do in the room and will effect the type and size of the machinery you buy and their placement and the resulting electric service needed. 

Consider dust collection. Even utilizing some type of dust collection and/or an effective shop vacuum, dust and the noise from the dust collection will be issues to deal with. The room door will need to be securely sealed, or dust will find its way into the rest of your residence. Since you would work inside your house, some type of air cleaner set to run after leaving the shop might be needed to clean air the prevent dust migration into the house.

How easy will it be to move material into the room from your vehicle? Boards and sheet goods cut down to rough size can be a PITA to move around in a cramped space.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> 1... use aluminum diamond plate.. very strong.. way less hassle and a boatload cheaper...
> 2nd choice would be ¼' FRP... look nicer too...
> 2... I'm pretty sure 30 amp is going to be woefully inadequate...
> 3... stick w/ bench top tools that you can build individual stands/legs for to get their tables a uniform comfortable working height...
> ...


4. the dog's hearing? @Stick486 in the totally random chat thread I raised the issue and you:
Quote:

found 'em...

http://www.petexpertise.com/dog-safe...-for-dogs.html


Also, point 2, if 30 amp is not sufficient , what is? I don't see me using more than one tool at a time plus dust collection.

point 6, …dadoes... One thing I learned from the Router Workshop was that dadoes made with the router were cleaner than those made with table saw dado blades. To be certain that was a sample sized of 1 and the router was operated by a master routerer. Have others (including you) come to a different conclusion?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> Also, point 2, if 30 amp is not sufficient , what is? I don't see me using more than one tool at a time plus dust collection.
> 
> point 6, …dadoes... One thing I learned from the Router Workshop was that dadoes made with the router were cleaner than those made with table saw dado blades. To be certain that was a sample sized of 1 and the router was operated by a master routerer. Have others (including you) come to a different conclusion?


#2... 100 amp... so you can make for individual branch circuits and not gang them together...
#6... better dado blades like the Freud... way many more cuts/dadoes over bits..
keep in mind the router and TS each have their place...
NOTE... a shoulder plane will become one serious ally....

Freud Tools | 6" Super Dado Sets
Veritas® Shoulder Planes - Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Gardening Tools, Hardware Supplies


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Tom the main asset of the scroll saw is being able to cut the inside of holes out. You just drill a hole through the work and stick the blade through the hole and hook the ends back to the arms of the saw. The other asset it has is that with the right blades you can turn and cut the opposite direction with almost zero radius in the corner. Bandsaws only cut the outside of the curves and jigsaws can't turn that tight. 

I've seen some really impressive scroll work and I would love to be able to do it myself but I see the scroll saw kind of like I do a wood lathe. I can knock something amateurish out with them but to get good at it you need to be able to invest some time homing the skill needed and I don't have the time to dedicate to them. As the machine goes it plugs into a 15 amp circuit with amps to spare, it has a small footprint, and you want it on a bench that you can sit comfortably at.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Wow Tom, What a lot of good advice. The more I think about it, the more I think your next tool might well be a Bosch jobsite table saw. The new one with the blade stop is going to be $1500, and would give you a measure of safety since you will likely be leaning over it a bit. It also has a small footprint (although it is larger than most saws in its class). You should be able to set it up on a cantilever of some sort so the chair works. The safety issue is real with a table saw, particularly when you will be reaching across it. I think the Bosch saw will be worth waiting for, and it won't use a lot of juice. The fit and finish are solid.

I agree with the post on dust collection. You really need to get serious about that since you can quickly become disabled from toxic sawdust. Breathing freely is nice, hacking and coughing all day long is not.

Sanding is another thing to consider. They tend to spit out a lot of fine sawdust. 

If you are not going to do resawing, you could just get a smaller band saw. I have gotten a lot of use out of my 10 inch band saw over the years., and it doesn't take a lot of space, which will be dear in a small shop.

The table saw is such a terrific tool, I can't imagine having a shop without one. Doing without would be something like not having a hammer. All that said, I LOVE my Laguna Fusion 10 inch saw and when I went outside today to fondle it, I realized that the table is oversized and the cabinet is set back so that you could use it with a wheelchair. 

As to the height, why not work out some sort of riser to put on the chair seat to lift you up another 4-6 inches in the shop? Easier than raising the floor.

This is such a great hobby, I can sure understand why you want to work this out. And you sure came to the right place for advice.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

for the DC and sanding... down draft table...


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