# Table Saw Stuff



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

A few days ago I was cutting some small staves to make a test shell for a drum. In doing so, I found an annoying problem with the fence. 

The photo shows what I mean...that recess in the fence is right at the height of the piece of wood I had cut at an angle. So Instead of staying where I thought it should stay, it casually slid away from the saw blade.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Auxiliary fence


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I didn't really have a lot of time to make a first class auxiliary fence, so I quickly put this one together from some scrap plywood.

In order to keep it tight on the aluminum fence, I clamped the two sides together tight against the fence before screwing the top piece in place.

It is a good push fit and I think that it will not slide away on me during use. However, just to make sure of that I ran a screw through the top piece at the front of the new fence to act as a stop should it be necessary.

I won't need to use this all the time, but in the case of a repeat performance as above, it will do the trick.

I need to remember to deduct 11/16" from the guide measurement when it is in use. You know what's going to happen, don't you? And it will be with some critical measurement...goes without saying.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Yup...auxiliary fence...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Keith 
I had an auxiliary fence like that for my old Beaver TS and hated it. Because my stock fence has holes through it, I simply screwed a piece of plywood to the face.

You could use something like these clamps - also available at Lee Valley
Yes, always remember to allow for the offset, but I don't use my fence's scale, I simply use a tape measure to check the distance.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> Keith
> I had an auxiliary fence like that for my old Beaver TS and hated it. Because my stock fence has holes through it, I simply screwed a piece of plywood to the face.
> 
> You could use something like these clamps - also available at Lee Valley
> Yes, always remember to allow for the offset, but I don't use my fence's scale, I simply use a tape measure to check the distance.


I might just write 11/16" in big letters on top of the fence. Us old guys with short memories need all the help we can get!

Nice clamp.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

You can clamp an auxiliary fence on top of your existing fence. Rockler has a couple of small clamps just for that purpose. You drill holes in the top edge of the auxiliary fence and put the post part of those clamps into the holes. The clamp portion goes behind the fence. You don't have to remove anything from the existing fence. That should solve your problem. You should also be using a really wide, expendable push block to hold it down and against the fence at the same time. 

In the future I'd cut the thickness first, then come back to cut the angle on the smaller pieces. with the cutoff on the side of the blade AWAY from the fence. That way you're pressing a flat side against the fence for all cuts.

When I make such cuts, I use two sticks, one to push the piece forward through the saw, and a second to push the piece against the fence. You could also use a feather board, but for this kind of cut, I like to press a longish piece of stock sideways against the work piece to guide it all the way up to the blade. Makes for a nice, stable angled cut.

This is one of those times you could also use a half inch thick push block with a hook on the back end to press the piece forward.

Below is the kind of push stick I'd use. You can make them quickly in the shop. The hook on the back end is needed for slender parts like what you're making.

Glad you asked.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Thanks Tom.

When I cut those little staves, they were actually out of 8' long 2 x 4's, so the problem didn't show up until I cut them to length.

In any event, I do have push sticks, but I should make a few more, especially like your fancy red one.

I need some zero clearance inserts as well and a sled. I'm going to try and get at least something made tonight.

No rest for us wicked guys it seems. :smile:


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I use the same clamps that Vince uses. They work great and are quick and easy to out in place. I don't rely on the scale on the saw to setup a cut. I use a steel rule. Also I never cut thin strips next to the fence. I have a little jig I made for repeatable thin strips on the outside of the blade. I'll post a picture of it one of these days.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> I use the same clamps that Vince uses. They work great and are quick and easy to out in place. I don't rely on the scale on the saw to setup a cut. I use a steel rule. Also I never cut thin strips next to the fence. I have a little jig I made for repeatable thin strips on the outside of the blade. I'll post a picture of it one of these days.


Richard, it wouldn't hurt my feelings even a little tiny bit if you posted it now! That would be great.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I would but I don't have a picture of it saved anywhere. Tomorrow is my day with the lady of the house so I doubt I'll get it done before the first of the week, Keith.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> I would but I don't have a picture of it saved anywhere. Tomorrow is my day with the lady of the house so I doubt I'll get it done before the first of the week, Keith.


Well that's OK then...we will just need to wait patiently for you.

I did just make three new push sticks though...so some progress this evening. And I cut some runners out of some very old Douglas fir T & G flooring for a sled. 

Would you believe I hit the broken off end of a drill bit in that flooring? No idea of how or when that might have got in there. Nice fir though.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Broken bit*

Here's the chunk of drill bit that I managed to hit with the blade. So tomorrow, that one will have to come off for a good inspection.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*New push sticks*

Followed up with three new push sticks...made from the 11 ply plywood that seems to have been used for everything here that it shouldn't have been used for. How about for a retaining wall!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> auxiliary fence


+2...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keith; re the aux./sacrificial fence thing.

If your fence is the same as mine, that slot...accessible from either end(?)... is in fact a T slot? If so you can slide a couple of 1/4" nuts in from the back end?
I just took a piece of 3/4" plywood, drilled two holes through it centered on the slot, counter-bored the front face for a 1/4" bolt head plus socket diam., and used a couple of 1/4x20- 1" bolts...nuts on but loose.
The fence just slides into place from the outfeed end then I snug it down with a socket wrench. Facing the blade side with laminate would be even better.
Doing it this way doesn't limit the ht. of the fence.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; re the aux./sacrificial fence thing.
> 
> If your fence is the same as mine, that slot...accessible from either end(?)... is in fact a T slot? If so you can slide a couple of 1/4" nuts in from the back end?
> I just took a piece of 3/4" plywood, drilled two holes through it centered on the slot, counter-bored the front face for a 1/4" bolt head plus socket diam., and used a couple of 1/4x20- 1" bolts...nuts on but loose.
> ...


Sounds similar to yours Dan. No access from the infeed end, but outfeed is OK.

I think I have a trip to Vancouver coming up on the 18th of this month, so a trip in to Lee Valley for all sorts of jig making bits and pieces will be in order.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Incidentally, speaking of hitting metal in wood...look at this. Just brought it in from the firewood stash. Couldn't have hit that nail any better if I tried.

There was a big pile of logs here when I arrived, which got turned into firewood. Can't tell you how many nails I hit cutting it up, but most of them were buried in the logs just as this one was.

So, if you have any trees on your property, please don't drive any nails into them. You never know who might need to cut them up later.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keith; for some reason, Delta made my original fence, the one with the slots, a non-standard size...my jig bits and pieces didn't fit. 
Hence my fallback on 1/4" *square* nuts for the slot. In my case they're a perfect fit; _they can't rotate in the channel_! *Happy little camper*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keith; KMS has a pretty good assortment of jig parts as well...
https://www.kmstools.com/rockler-32pc-jig-hardware-kit-10938


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; KMS has a pretty good assortment of jig parts as well...
> https://www.kmstools.com/rockler-32pc-jig-hardware-kit-10938


Oh, right. I keep forgetting about them. I'll be in Kamloops later this week and they have a branch there. They were able to supply replacements for the broken trunnions on my King band saw

Whatever they don't have, I can pick up from L. V.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; KMS has a pretty good assortment of jig parts as well...
> https://www.kmstools.com/rockler-32pc-jig-hardware-kit-10938


Yessiree Bob, that should do it. Thanks Dan. :smile:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That's a Rockler item; my understanding is that KMS* will bring in items from the Rockler catalog, if you don't mind waiting for the items to be processed. 
That's over and above their regularly stocked Rockler stuff.*


_*KMS is a Canadian online and bricks&mortar tool house_
They have fairly frequent free shipping events.

(I have my eye on this puppy...
https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-16-open-drum-sander-106700

The price has gone UP $60 since Dec.....the falling Canadian $ I assume? )


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> (I have my eye on this puppy...
> https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-16-open-drum-sander-106700
> 
> The price has gone UP $60 since Dec.....the falling Canadian $ I assume? )


That's a pretty nice looking unit.

At first glance I thought it would be too light to do a good job...then I checked the weight at 156 pounds. Hah! Not so light weight after all.

The specs look decent and the price is a real bargain.

As for the Canadian Dollar, I'm starting to think that's just a distant memory. We should rename it the Half Loonie.

My mind right away tries to figure out how to make one of these...

I have a chum down on Ruxton Island who has a closed version of one of these things. He got it maybe 7-8 years ago. Cost him over $1,000 new at that time. He sanded ALL the beams in his house on Ruxton. Looked absolutely spectacular.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I drilled a 7/32" hole in my aluminum fence and tapped two 1/4" I milled a piece of 1" stock for a sub fence and screwed on with FH screws


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

paduke said:


> I drilled a 7/32" hole in my aluminum fence and tapped two 1/4" I milled a piece of 1" stock for a sub fence and screwed on with FH screws


...and I am assuming that you could easily attach anything you wished to that? Did you make that fairly tall?


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## stanzee (Dec 9, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> I didn't really have a lot of time to make a first class auxiliary fence, so I quickly put this one together from some scrap plywood.
> 
> In order to keep it tight on the aluminum fence, I clamped the two sides together tight against the fence before screwing the top piece in place.
> 
> ...


I would suggest a note conspicuously affixed at the saw or on the aux fence reminding you to always check the distance from the blade with a ruler. That should do the trick. Best of luck.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

stanzee said:


> I would suggest a note conspicuously affixed at the saw or on the aux fence reminding you to always check the distance from the blade with a ruler. That should do the trick. Best of luck.


Yes indeed. I have written - IN LARGE LETTERS - + 11/16" right on top of the auxiliary fence. Kinda hard to miss now.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

stanzee said:


> I would suggest a note conspicuously affixed at the saw or on the aux fence reminding you to always check the distance from the blade with a ruler. That should do the trick. Best of luck.


double taped ¼'' UHMW or UHMW filmed ¼' plate aluminum double taped to the fence and reset the indicator...
make a T slot filler to fit/slide into the T slot on the fence...
call it good...
remove it it some day you need the T slot... 
fitted T slot filler and cover the fence face w/ UHMW tape...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> double taped ¼'' UHMW or UHMW filmed ¼' plate aluminum double taped to the fence and reset the indicator...
> make a T slot filler to fit/slide into the T slot on the fence...
> call it good...
> remove it it some day you need the T slot...
> fitted T slot filler and cover the fence face w/ UHMW tape...


Such a lot of work...I think I will add the 11/16" for now. Or just pull the aux fence off. It only takes a second.

Must admit I like the sound of that idea though.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

In between who knows what all that I was doing today, I did make up a quickie sled.

Strictly from what was in the "Laying Around" pile. Everybody has one of those, don't they?

So the 11/16" (here we go again) main part of the sled only has enough room to cut up to a 2" x 12"...something that I doubt very much I will ever do. But it will be good for smaller stuff. And it can be used from either side.

I was also thinking of adding a 45º setup for miters, but the max length for something like that would only be about 16". Not that practical. Anyway, my miter saws do a passably fair job of those.

I'll let you figure out the pics.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Making the cut*

Here we go cutting the sled.

The 90º cut worked out perfectly.

Yes, I used two slides, and without even waxing the wood, it slides well.


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## Matador58 (Jan 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> A few days ago I was cutting some small staves to make a test shell for a drum. In doing so, I found an annoying problem with the fence.
> 
> The photo shows what I mean...that recess in the fence is right at the height of the piece of wood I had cut at an angle. So Instead of staying where I thought it should stay, it casually slid away from the saw blade.


Hi cocobolo1,

Have a look at this Jig I made for holding timber against the fence that I use on my table saw. I made this about 2 years ago I haven't had any kick backs yet. I also have attach a feather board for holding the timber down on the table. If you would like more photos
how it holds the timber on the table saw just let me know and will to put them on. I hope this helps.

















Graham.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Matador58 said:


> Hi cocobolo1,
> 
> Have a look at this Jig I made for holding timber against the fence that I use on my table saw. I made this about 2 years ago I haven't had any kick backs yet. I also have attach a feather board for holding the timber down on the table. If you would like more photos
> how it holds the timber on the table saw just let me know and will to put them on. I hope this helps.
> ...


G'Day Graham. Thanks very much for posting...how about a pic or two showing your jig in use.

I have some of those rare earth magnets from Lee Valley, so they might work well. Yes, indeed, some more details will be very much appreciated.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes indeed. I have written - IN LARGE LETTERS - + 11/16" right on top of the auxiliary fence. Kinda hard to miss now.


I only use the measure on the saw to judge how far I've moved the fence from its starting position. For example, if the cut is too large or too small, I look to where the pointer is, then nudge a fraction over on the scale. I generally use a steel rule for close measurements, and my best tape measure for larger pieces.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

*How I cut tin strips*

@keith as I promised this is how I set up to cut thin strips. After I cut one I just slide the fence toward the blade and I'm ready to cut the next one. The sun made it a little hard to get good pictures this morning.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> @keith as I promised this is how I set up to cut thin strips. After I cut one I just slide the fence toward the blade and I'm ready to cut the next one. The sun made it a little hard to get good pictures this morning.


Thanks Richard. It took me a second to see how you managed to get consistent thicknesses on your thin strips. Then I spotted the bolt setup in the second slot. Nice and simple. I like that. And your fence setup looks not too shabby either!

Does it work equally well if you are cutting wider strips, say in the 2 1/2" to 3" range?

The pictures are just fine.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Matador58 said:


> Hi cocobolo1,
> 
> Have a look at this Jig I made for holding timber against the fence that I use on my table saw. I made this about 2 years ago I haven't had any kick backs yet. I also have attach a feather board for holding the timber down on the table. If you would like more photos
> how it holds the timber on the table saw just let me know and will to put them on. I hope this helps.
> ...


I have not seen that jig before, very good idea. 

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> I only use the measure on the saw to judge how far I've moved the fence from its starting position. For example, if the cut is too large or too small, I look to where the pointer is, then nudge a fraction over on the scale. I generally use a steel rule for close measurements, and my best tape measure for larger pieces.


Yep...I do about the same Tom.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

cocobolo1 said:


> Thanks Richard.
> 
> Does it work equally well if you are cutting wider strips, say in the 2 1/2" to 3" range?
> 
> The pictures are just fine.


Just in case I didn't make myself clear, something that is eminently possible, I meant still cutting thin strips, but taller.

So let's say 1/8" or so thick, but 2 1/2" + wider when you are done. Oh, you know what I mean. :smile:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> A few days ago I was cutting some small staves to make a test shell for a drum. In doing so, I found an annoying problem with the fence.
> 
> The photo shows what I mean...that recess in the fence is right at the height of the piece of wood I had cut at an angle. So Instead of staying where I thought it should stay, it casually slid away from the saw blade.


Keith, When I cut staves on the table saw, I rip them for thickness and then use a sled to cut the angle on the edges. They are laying flat on the sled,clamped down and the saw blade is tilted on the bevel. It works very well and is quite safe.

And if the staves are taped as in making a bucket, make 2 sleds and bevel and taper the cut one one side ,then put the piece in the other sled and taper the other side.

Herb


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

@keith Of course you would be limited by blade height but I have cut some thick stock this way. I also do some resawing on the table saw. I can go up to 3 inches wide (tall)doing that. I make box sides that way.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Keith, When I cut staves on the table saw, I rip them for thickness and then use a sled to cut the angle on the edges. They are laying flat on the sled,clamped down and the saw blade is tilted on the bevel. It works very well and is quite safe.
> 
> And if the staves are taped as in making a bucket, make 2 sleds and bevel and taper the cut one one side ,then put the piece in the other sled and taper the other side.
> 
> Herb


Roger that Herb.

I would need to make another sled for that purpose...no big deal.

I don't yet have any of those nice toggle clamps, but they are on my list for when I go into town later this week.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> @keith Of course you would be limited by blade height but I have cut some thick stock this way. I also do some resawing on the table saw. I can go up to 3 inches wide (tall)doing that. I make box sides that way.


About the same blade height here. 

I have been thinking about picking up a 12" sawblade and making some sort of dedicated table saw for taller cuts.

I'm of the opinion that cuts on the table saw tend to be more accurate, or repeatable if you will, than on the bandsaw.

Still do not have my bandsaw put back together yet, but I think I will pick up a new blade for it anyway. Maybe that will give me some incentive to get the job done.

Gotta tell you, I really miss my Lumbermate sawmill sometimes. :crying:


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I use a Shopsmith bandsaw which is not real great. I often think of selling it but I've had it 30 years and about the time I decide to sell I use one or two of the other functions and it's safe for awhile longer.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> I use a Shopsmith bandsaw which is not real great. I often think of selling it but I've had it 30 years and about the time I decide to sell I use one or two of the other functions and it's safe for awhile longer.


I was hunting for a used one a year or so ago and found a couple in the $700 price range. For what they do I thought that was dirt cheap.

At the time I didn't have anywhere long term to put one...so it was just another pipe dream that went out the window.

I think if I had one for 30 years, they could bury it with me. :smile:


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Mine is a Mark 5 and if someone offered me 700 for it I would help the load it.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Roger that Herb.
> 
> I would need to make another sled for that purpose...no big deal.
> 
> I don't yet have any of those nice toggle clamps, but they are on my list for when I go into town later this week.


I make mine out of wood.

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> I make mine out of wood.
> 
> Herb


That's very neat. You could crank those out by the dozen! That's a lot simpler than I was thinking, that's for sure.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Slick!! I like it. Is it designed to be 'consumable' ie as you move the jig closer to the blade, do you care if you cut into the base?.
I guess if the base got a bit too narrow you could glue an extension on?

If a bit of the clamp gets eaten, it's not the end of the World...
_And it'll work fine with the blade guard on_


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I make mine out of wood.
> 
> Herb


you and Oliver of the same ilk???...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Slick!! I like it. Is it designed to be 'consumable' ie as you move the jig closer to the blade, do you care if you cut into the base?.
> I guess if the base got a bit too narrow you could glue an extension on?
> 
> If a bit of the clamp gets eaten, it's not the end of the World...
> _And it'll work fine with the blade guard on_


These are made for tapered staves, but the strips can be popped off and renailed for any angle or straight cut you want. The edge of the cut is the edge of the sled,so It is easy to measure over and set the strips with short pin nails, and the fence guides the sled straight and your hand has plenty of room to push the sled and be away from the blade.

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> you and Oliver of the same ilk???...


Wish I was so lucky.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Wish I was so lucky.
> 
> Herb


appears yur gaining on him...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Slick!! I like it. Is it designed to be 'consumable' ie as you move the jig closer to the blade, do you care if you cut into the base?.
> I guess if the base got a bit too narrow you could glue an extension on?
> 
> *If a bit of the clamp gets eaten, it's not the end of the World*...
> _And it'll work fine with the blade guard on_


If a bit of the clamp gets eaten, it's not the end of the *Wood* :grin:


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> I make mine out of wood.
> 
> Herb


That's a mighty nice idea for clamping Herb, I believe that I will be stealing that with pride!

One wrinkle that you might consider. If you add a runner to reference the jig to the miter slot and not the fence, once you cut the kerf edge of the jig it will always be the cut line making it simple to line up your layout lines, clamp, and go.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> appears yur gaining on him...


Oliver has been awful quiet these days ,I bet he is in his secret laboratory cooking up some whiz-bang thing to pop on us.:smile::smile:

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Oliver has been awful quiet these days ,I bet he is in his secret laboratory cooking up some whiz-bang thing to pop on us.:smile::smile:
> 
> Herb


that would be nice...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Ratbob said:


> That's a mighty nice idea for clamping Herb, I believe that I will be stealing that with pride!
> 
> One wrinkle that you might consider. If you add a runner to reference the jig to the miter slot and not the fence, once you cut the kerf edge of the jig it will always be the cut line making it simple to line up your layout lines, clamp, and go.


Jigs like these are really cool if you have to duplicate a lot of parts that are the same. Then reuse them by redoing the locating strips to fit different parts.

I hate to cut boards with the blade over 2" high ,I use the band saw for anything larger. 

Herb


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Jigs like these are really cool if you have to duplicate a lot of parts that are the same. Then reuse them by redoing the locating strips to fit different parts.
> 
> I hate to cut boards with the blade over 2" high ,I use the band saw for anything larger.
> 
> Herb


Sorry Herb, I was thinking more of a general purpose taper jig and not so much a template for repetitive cuts. I might just have to steal that idea too when the need arises!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Ratbob said:


> I might just have to steal that idea too when the need arises!


What's going on here? Is everyone a thief on this website? I thought I was the only one, but some of you guys will swipe anything if it isn't nailed down. I need to change my ways and learn how to "borrow" stuff from now on. >


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> What's going on here? Is everyone a thief on this website? I thought I was the only one, but some of you guys will swipe anything if it isn't nailed down. I need to change my ways and learn how to "borrow" stuff from now on. >


Keith , we get a bad taste in our mouths when the word "borrow" is mentioned lol . I even started a thread to see how others felt 

http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/46690-anyone-else-hate-lending-out-tools.html


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Ratbob said:


> Sorry Herb, I was thinking more of a general purpose taper jig and not so much a template for repetitive cuts. I might just have to steal that idea too when the need arises!


If you are doing projects like round planters, buckets,straight sided barrels , drums etc. this is the type of jigs you need. This will give you consistent tapers and edge angles to make an even circle. 
But it can be adapted to other uses too.

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCableGuy said:


> Keith , we get a bad taste in our mouths when the word "borrow" is mentioned lol . I even started a thread to see how others felt
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/46690-anyone-else-hate-lending-out-tools.html


I just went through that entire thread.

Brings back a few memories from the past. But perhaps the worst one was when I loaned out a brand new flooring gun, the package had never even been opened.

A good friend called up and asked if I had such a beast and ended up borrowing it.

Two days later, I got a call from him saying that the gun had broken and therefore the guy that he was working for owed me a new one!

Say what? YOU borrowed the gun and YOU can bring me a new one.

That was about four years ago...still no gun. And no friend.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> If you are doing projects like round planters, buckets,straight sided barrels , drums etc. this is the type of jigs you need. This will give you consistent tapers and edge angles to make an even circle.
> But it can be adapted to other uses too.
> 
> Herb


Herb, I was going to say that you do really nice work for a young feller. Then I looked at your profile. I think I will need to refer to you as "Sir" in future.

Have you ever made one of those beautiful buckets using large bead and cove bits on the edges? They snuggle together really nicely.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

.... and lesson learned, I bet


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> .... and lesson learned, I bet


You got that right!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> I just went through that entire thread.
> 
> Brings back a few memories from the past. But perhaps the worst one was when I loaned out a brand new flooring gun, the package had never even been opened.
> 
> ...


Keith , you have luck like me . I couldn't figure out why everything I lent to a coworker came back trashed , till I found out he re lends things out to his friends . Five people later and it's basically garbage . Nothing leaves my garage now , problem over .
Well maybe if MT.Stringer or HonestJohn came by lol


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TheCableGuy said:


> Keith , you have luck like me . I couldn't figure out why everything I lent to a coworker came back trashed , till I found out he re lends things out to his friends . Five people later and it's basically garbage . Nothing leaves my garage now , problem over .
> Well maybe if MT.Stringer or HonestJohn came by lol


Likewise. Tools are just too expensive to waste on idiots.

About a thousand years ago I had a boat repair business at a big marina and it was a constant fight to stop my tools walking out the door.

I even had a guy come in to the shop one day and ask if I would mind GIVING him a few liters of epoxy as a sample.

So, I said sure, no problem. You go to the bank and ask them for samples of free money, and however much they give you, you give that to me. And that's how much epoxy I will give you.

Where the hell do these guys get the nerve?


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## Matador58 (Jan 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> G'Day Graham. Thanks very much for posting...how about a pic or two showing your jig in use.
> 
> I have some of those rare earth magnets from Lee Valley, so they might work well. Yes, indeed, some more details will be very much appreciated.


 Hi cocobolo 1,

Here is 4 photos on how I use the jig. The feather board I have on the fence I am going to make a thinner because that one is made from 9 mm plywood. I am going to make a 3 mm feather board. The board I have attach to the fence I'm going to make it higher so I can cut higher timber. I hope the photos are ok and that will give idea to come with something better. I look forward seeing it.


































Graham.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> I just went through that entire thread.
> 
> Brings back a few memories from the past. But perhaps the worst one was when I loaned out a brand new flooring gun, the package had never even been opened.
> 
> ...


BTDT on that one...
now it never occurred to me to loan out tools...
no one I know bothers to ask to either...
it's the scrotes I don't know that always ask..

let the fun and games begin...
they never seem to ask again...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Herb, I was going to say that you do really nice work for a young feller. Then I looked at your profile. I think I will need to refer to you as "Sir" in future.
> 
> Have you ever made one of those beautiful buckets using large bead and cove bits on the edges? They snuggle together really nicely.


Herb has talent... lots of it... for sure..

the bit you are referring to... which style have you in mind..
birds-mouth..
canoe joint...
tambour...

here's another thread you may find useful...
http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/57897-stave-bucket-cylinder-calculator.html


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Matador58 said:


> Hi cocobolo 1,
> 
> Here is 4 photos on how I use the jig. The feather board I have on the fence I am going to make a thinner because that one is made from 9 mm plywood. I am going to make a 3 mm feather board. The board I have attach to the fence I'm going to make it higher so I can cut higher timber. I hope the photos are ok and that will give idea to come with something better. I look forward seeing it.
> 
> ...


Hi Graham, thanks for the photos. Yes, I understand perfectly how your system works. Interesting how you have the featherboard cut on the angle like that. 

Your spring system on the saw table suggests an idea to me of making a featherboard to run in the slot which would be adjustable as yours on the fence is. But I think I might use toggle clamps to make it faster to adjust. But, you know, whatever works.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> Herb has talent... lots of it... for sure..
> 
> the bit you are referring to... which style have you in mind..
> birds-mouth..
> ...


Stick I have the small 1/4" "canoe" bits, from which I have actually made a cedar strip canoe or three in the past...but I was referring to some much larger bits that I got from Lee Valley years ago. I think you can do up to 1" thick wood with the bigger ones.

Like most of my tools at the moment, they are out of sight. But if I can run them down in the next few days I will post a photo.

Jeez, but it will be really nice when I have a place to put all the tools so that I can find them.

The house here is undergoing a total overhaul, so things are pretty much a total shambles.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Hi Graham, thanks for the photos. Yes, I understand perfectly how your system works. *Interesting how you have the featherboard cut on the angle like that.
> *
> Your spring system on the saw table suggests an idea to me of making a featherboard to run in the slot which would be adjustable as yours on the fence is. But I think I might use toggle clamps to make it faster to adjust. But, you know, whatever works.


Morning Keith

The purpose for the angled cuts on the featherboard is so they will flex in the direction of the "push" but won't allow the workpiece to come back - but you probably already knew that


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> Morning Keith
> 
> The purpose for the angled cuts on the featherboard is so they will flex in the direction of the "push" but won't allow the workpiece to come back - but you probably already knew that


Yes, I think so. I have made many over the years.

I see that a number of folks do the cuts on a bandsaw, whereas I prefer to do the cuts on the table saw

I'm of the opinion that you can get the fingers to bend with more consistency that way.

Anyway...to that end...I received a totally unexpected cheque in the mail this morning from the federales. Not a fortune, but a few hundred. I have no idea what it is for, no explanation arrived with it, but it had my name on it - so that's good enough for me.

Naturally, I assumed that someone at the Federal level knew that I needed to buy some woodworking goodies and that's why they sent it.

Not being one to look a gift horse in the mouth, I hightailed it off to town and promptly blew most of it on a variety of little goodies. I'll see if I can get a few pics later, but it's mostly jig stuff, things like that. :smile::smile::smile:


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Unexpected money is always a pleasant surprise.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes, I think so. I have made many over the years.
> 
> I see that a number of folks do the cuts on a bandsaw, whereas I prefer to do the cuts on the table saw
> 
> ...


Ut-oh, You will soon get a letter that it was a mistake and they will want the money back, with interest, some new employee made a mistake. And if you don't comply they will come and take all your woodworking tools and auction them off and send you a bill for the balance, plus penalties.
Thats the way it works here.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Ut-oh, You will soon get a letter that it was a mistake and they will want the money back, with interest, some new employee made a mistake. And if you don't comply they will come and take all your woodworking tools and auction them off and send you a bill for the balance, plus penalties.
> Thats the way it works here.
> 
> Herb


Gee I never realized what a killjoy you were Herb :sarcastic:


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Ut-oh, You will soon get a letter that it was a mistake and they will want the money back, with interest, some new employee made a mistake. And if you don't comply they will come and take all your woodworking tools and auction them off and send you a bill for the balance, plus penalties.
> That's the way it works here.
> 
> Herb


Good luck with that. My executor will shortly advise them that the deceased recently died penniless as a result of starvation caused by his grossly inadequate pension. He did, however, prior to his death, carve out a very good likeness of a human hand with the middle finger elevated in some sort of salute. He asked that this be given to the person in charge of issuing government cheques.

That should do it.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

We had a bit of a snowfall here last night, so the roads weren't the best going in to town this morning. In fact, I had barely got past Magna Bay when I saw two vehicles in the ditch (about 8' deep) on the same curve within about 30 feet of each other.

The young fellow who was there, uninjured fortunately, had already arranged for the tow truck to come and pull him out, so I carried on my way.

First stop the bank, deposit my windfall.

Next stop, Westsyde in North Kamloops to buy a 1 1/2 HP motor just removed from a big Ryobi sander. It seems that the fellow I got the motor from was making door panels, and 6 months after he started, another commercial operation started up just a few blocks away doing the same thing. He couldn't compete so was out of business. I didn't ask why the motor was removed from the big sander...but he ran it for me...quiet and smooth. Good deal for $60.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*KMS Tools*

Next stop was KMS at the far end of Kamloops, to pick up a set of Rockler jig pieces that DaninVan filled me in on.

Now, I'm not sure if I should be tickled pink with Dan, or mad as a hornet. All you tool guys know what happens when you go into a tool store to buy just that one thing...right?

Well, I really shouldn't blame Dan for my weakness (I hear they are developing a 12 step program to overcome this affliction) but you know what happened, I'm sure.

Found the package of Rockler jig pieces, no problemo, but one item is never enough. Then it was some featherboards, various other jig setups, a gallon of glue, Bessey clamps...you get the idea.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Next to The House of Pot for nuts, bolts, washers and a solid 3/4 steel rod.

Then to Princess Auto, where they have all sorts of goodies.

I have in mind using the electric motor to make a disc/drum sander, likely to be set up as a thickness sander. So I will need bearings and so forth for that. No particular design in mind yet, but I do remember seeing a nice drum sander in FWW many years ago. I'm hoping that I still have that issue as about 3/4 of my magazine collection got given away when I left the island.

The small bearings here will be part of the jig used to rout the straight stave drums.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes, I think so. I have made many over the years.
> 
> I see that a number of folks do the cuts on a bandsaw, whereas I prefer to do the cuts on the table saw
> 
> ...


You voted Liberal?!:surprise:


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> You voted Liberal?!:surprise:


How did you figure that out? (He says innocently.)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*A Penny Saved...*

Keith; Hey! Lookit all the money I _saved _you.... lol
Oh! When you're down here in Big Smoke, don't forget that_ PJ White is only a few blocks from Lee Valley_
PJ White Hardwoods Ltd.
0


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

And as long as you're down on Kent St...


Mohawk Western Finishing Supplies Ltd
Paint Store

Address: 1565 East Kent Ave N, Vancouver, BC V5P 4Y7
Phone604) 324-6787


You _need _stuff, Keith.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh...
and as long as you're down on Kent St anyway, another couple of blocks...
Mohawk Western Finishing Supplies Ltd
Paint Store
Address: 1565 East Kent Ave N, Vancouver, BC V5P 4Y7
Phone604) 324-6787

Just to window shop, eh?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I have absolutely no idea how that frown-smiley got in there...either time.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Shop guy said:


> Unexpected money is always a pleasant surprise.


can only hope...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Ut-oh, You will soon get a letter that it was a mistake and they will want the money back, with interest, some new employee made a mistake. And if you don't comply they will come and take all your woodworking tools and auction them off and send you a bill for the balance, plus penalties.
> Thats the way it works here.
> 
> Herb


another site killjoy...
what's up with the mood chilling Herb..
go sit in the corner...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; Hey! Lookit all the money I _saved _you.... lol
> Oh! When you're down here in Big Smoke, don't forget that_ PJ White is only a few blocks from Lee Valley_
> PJ White Hardwoods Ltd.
> 0


It seems to me that I remember the name White from about 1960 or so. I bought a beautiful piece of black walnut, from which I hand carved 4 cabriole legs for a French provincial armchair that I was making. I think they were downtown at the time.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> And as long as you're down on Kent St...
> 
> 
> Mohawk Western Finishing Supplies Ltd
> ...


Well, of course I _always_ need stuff. Never been to that store.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> can only hope...


You betcha. There's more coming, but next time I know what it's for.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Stick I have the small 1/4" "canoe" bits, from which I have actually made a cedar strip canoe or three in the past...but I was referring to some much larger bits that I got from Lee Valley years ago. I think you can do up to 1" thick wood with the bigger ones.
> 
> 
> The thing about canoe style bits for making perfectly round containers
> ...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> cocobolo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Stick I have the small 1/4" "canoe" bits, from which I have actually made a cedar strip canoe or three in the past...but I was referring to some much larger bits that I got from Lee Valley years ago. I think you can do up to 1" thick wood with the bigger ones.
> ...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Router bits*

Sir Herb, these are the bigger version of the bits I was speaking of.

The single one is a smaller size.

I'm sure you know what the original canoe bits look like...besides, I haven't located those yet.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Featherboards*

the featherboards I picked up seem to have limited use.

The one pictured here, for example, is shown as sitting in the slot and then being clamped in place.

I suppose in theory, that sounds good, but in the real world it doesn't function very well.

It would appear that the knobs on top are turned, thus tightening the fixture in place. But the runner part that goes in the slot is way too narrow. When you do try and tighten it up, the ends of the track are spread apart, but still don't hold. It would seem that there is either a design flaw here, or a manufacturing error.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

The black featherboard fared better. This is the one which comes with the hex bolts and knobs. Fits perfectly in the fence slot.

It sounds similar to the one Charles has. Without using an auxiliary fence, it is only good for stock up to about half an inch.

Here it is set as high as it will go. That piece of stock is only 3/8" thick and already there is pressure on the stock.

To make this more versatile, I will need a fence four or five inches higher with an embedded track.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Also made a couple of zero clearance inserts. The first one is already in use with the new saw blade.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Keith:

I've got the Kreg Featherboard - a litle pricey but works like a charm. Once you've got it tightened down you can't move it with a sledgehammer.
I had some homemade ones but they were a PITA trying to clamp them to the table saw.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I settled on the JessEm series..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I use the mag switch. Easy setup locks down securely. Very handy.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> If you are doing projects like round planters, buckets,straight sided barrels , drums etc. this is the type of jigs you need. This will give you consistent tapers and edge angles to make an even circle.
> But it can be adapted to other uses too.
> 
> Herb


Herb, I just ran across some pics of a telescope I made some time back using the canoe bits. You can see that the cedar strips snuggle together quite well and make a decent tube.

I was going to make a shorter refractor scope with tapered strips, another thing I never got around to making, but I still have the lenses for the job. Maybe one day...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Herb, I just ran across some pics of a telescope I made some time back using the canoe bits. You can see that the cedar strips snuggle together quite well and make a decent tube.
> 
> I was going to make a shorter refractor scope with tapered strips, another thing I never got around to making, but I still have the lenses for the job. Maybe one day...


Sweet...


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Very nice


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Very nice,Keith, you do fine work. I agree that curves of regular and varying radius's can be made easily from canoe bits as they are adjustable to changing radius's,they just need to be laid up on a form. The point I was trying to make was that an angled edge forms a definite radius without an inside template, that is all.

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Very nice,Keith, you do fine work. I agree that curves of regular and varying radius's can be made easily from canoe bits as they are adjustable to changing radius's,they just need to be laid up on a form. The point I was trying to make was that an angled edge forms a definite radius without an inside template, that is all.
> 
> Herb


Yes indeed Sir Herb...no argument from me there.

I have a really nice 127mm refractor primary lens. I might just work out the stave sizes for that. The taper is very minor, so I would use a form to keep the shape perfect.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

A thing of beauty, Keith!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes indeed Sir Herb...no argument from me there.
> 
> I have a really nice 127mm refractor primary lens. I might just work out the stave sizes for that. The taper is very minor, so I would use a form to keep the shape perfect.


I agree,don't change any of your technique, you can't do better than the previous one, just change the width of your staves to make the larger diameter.
Beautiful workmanship be nice if you document the build with some pictures, I am sure I could learn a lot from that. Even the tripod is a work of art.

Herb


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

That telescope is a wonderful build. Do you still have it? In 50 years it will be a cherished antique!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> I agree,don't change any of your technique, you can't do better than the previous one, just change the width of your staves to make the larger diameter.
> Beautiful workmanship be nice if you document the build with some pictures, I am sure I could learn a lot from that. Even the tripod is a work of art.
> 
> Herb


Sir Herb, I made this telescope before my days of having either a computer or a digital camera. So I have no record of that particular 'scope build. Should I do another one, you may be sure I will document the build thoroughly.

I also ground and polished the mirror (150mm) under the tutelage of one Dr. William Weller, now retired, a brilliant physics/math teacher at the university in Nanaimo. It is to him that I owe my thanks for this 'scope turning out so well.

The accuracy of your mirror determines how well the 'scope will work, and I was highly flattered when Dr. Weller told me that this mirror was about the best he had ever seen. The final figure of a mirror is checked with light waves, there being no way to measure the figure accurately by any other method.

The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada featured this 'scope on their website for awhile...I guess it was most unusual to see a 'scope built out of cedar pulled out of the ocean! The tripod is mostly arbutus, milled from a 90' tree I cut down on our Ruxton property some 15 years ago.

Thank you for your most kind comment.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> That telescope is a wonderful build. Do you still have it? In 50 years it will be a cherished antique!


Hi Tom. Believe it or not I was going to leave this 'scope down at the Ruxton house when I left. But thankfully, a friend talked some sense into my head and I did bring it up to the Shuswap.

The tripod comes apart which makes it not too difficult to move...but the 'scope itself is over 6 feet long. I had to move everything off the island by myself, and we were not allowed to have any docks in front of our properties there. Whatever you moved had to be put in a dinghy, then rowed out to your boat in the bay and transferred. It was an awful lot of work. After having been there for 17 years, you can just imagine the accumulation of stuff that I had to move.

And that, right there, is the reason that so many of my tools got sold on the island. Just too difficult to move off.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> A thing of beauty, Keith!


Thank you Dan. One of my better woodworking accomplishments.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

127 mm thats a 5 inch refrator good size lense.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

roofner said:


> 127 mm thats a 5 inch refrator good size lense.


Yes, it is. Most go up to 102 mm, or 4", and then the price gets positively astronomical!

I think I also have a 102 mm lens, but I don't recall the focal length of either right now.

I also have the Celestron 150mm refractor, GOTO with all the bells & whistles. All the astro stuff is packed away in storage right now, but as soon as all the house repairs and upgrades are done they will be in use again. 

I'm even thinking of building a small observatory so I can leave the 'scopes permanently set up. One more project for down the road...way down!


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