# Securing wood to cinder block wall



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys and gals, I am making some changes in my gym , and installing a product called StoreWall in order to organize my gyms bars and accessories etc . 
This is why I’m liking the product 









Here’s are the racks on my back wall at present , which I’m removing as my options are limited . I like the mirror, as it makes the room look larger , but not at the expense of limiting my options .









Below is my photoshopped version of what I’d like to do . The yellow is the exposed perimeter of the wood that the StoreWall is attached too . I’m thinking when it’s full to expect close to 300 pounds of weight including the boards and StoreWall . 








So I’m going to need to run a 2x4 horizontally across the top and bottom approx 13’ , then have vertical 2x4 on the ends and in the middle , so the French cleats on the StoreWall have a place to anchor . They have there own proprietary French cleat system .
I would like the floating effect , but worse case I could have vertical boards from the floor to the stud at the ceiling level , paint them white so you don’t notice them , and then attach boards to those . But ideally I want the floating look .

I have had limited success with Tapcon cement screws. In the past I drilled a bigger hole than neccesary ,and put a lead insert into the wall first , then drove the Tapcon into the lead insert . You couldn’t move it when it was done that way . 
I was thinking about measuring the cinderblock and drilling in the hollow parts instead . This way I could use something that expands .

But now I see these , which would be used in a solid part of the cinderblock . 
Is anyone familiar with them ? 
I would have to counter sink them into the 2x4, as they it’s neccesary to have them flush with the board so there not in the way of the StoreWall or cleats


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

This is a product I have never heard of ,and I see it’s available at Amazon


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Rick - those anchors work like this: as you tighten the nut, it pulls the bolt against the sleeve and the flared part at the bottom expands the sleeve so that it wedges against the sides. Having said that, I've used them in a poured concrete floor (under my shed) but I'm not sure if they would work in cinder block. I would think that the block would crack under pressure, but I stand to be corrected.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

They make the same thing as a threaded insert, Rick.
https://www.confast.com/products-single-expansion
https://www.confast.com/products-double-expansion

Double Expansion Anchor – This anchor is designed for use in softer more suspect type base material where the holding values may be questionable. The double expansion anchor is designed so that the entire length of the anchor body expands and pushes against the side wall of the base material. This wide range of expansion gives the anchor a much better chance of obtaining holding values in most types of base materials.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Vince , I’m with you on the brittleness of cinderblock too . It’s an old house to boot , so there old blocks . 

Dan , the double expansion look like the win . Now to source them in the great white north


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Try someplace that deals with the concrete trade...maybe Acklands(?).
Or BC Fasteners.

Maybe these?
Sleeve Anchors - Flat Head Zinc - BC Fasteners & Tools
Not quite what you wanted, but close?

National Concrete Accessories have them...
https://www.nca.ca/product/exp-shields-double-516-x-58-9162


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Try someplace that deals with the concrete trade...maybe Acklands(?).
> Or BC Fasteners.
> 
> Maybe these?
> ...


Thank Dan . I found them on Amazon.ca . One box was over $200, but I found a 12 pack for under $40. I may need two boxes though . 
I’m not in a rush , so I could contact NCA 

https://www.amazon.ca/Double-Expansion-Shields-Pack-12/dp/B00AM0WK1U

I’ll keep my options open though . Going with a larger hole to fit a lead insert , and then putting in a Tarcon has worked well in the past . A pita , but it worked


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

hawkeye10 said:


> Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:


I agree Don , as I’m a pro at starting ten projects at once, but not completing any . 
I’ve been on and off my bathroom Reno for a decade , and I’m waiting for parts for the gym, so I sidetracked myself and went back to the bathroom . All the while I have to hustle and get a pit dig so a sump pump can be installed before the next flood .
Springs a coming!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick, I agree with Vince the Quick Bolt type are not for Cinder block.
If you drill into the void of the block it will tend to blow out the backside inside the block. If you drill into the partition ,the same thing, The mortar joint will hold a hole better because it has the 2 ends of the block to hold from blowing out. 

When I was working we did a lot of that but used 3/8" diam. toggle bolts. The wings on the toggles are wide enough to span any blow out and suck the 2X4 tight to the wall. You are going to be hanging a lot of weight on there . Are you going to screw a 3/4" Plywood backboard to the 2X4's to mount the Store Wall or does it attach to the 2X4's?

Here are some 5" long ones, you will need these long ones because you are mounting thru 1 1/2"board + 1 1/4' block+ have to fold up the wings to get them thru the 1" hole in the block.
https://www.amazon.com/BC-3780TBCR-...id=1515914659&sr=8-8&keywords=3/8+toggle+bolt

Herb


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

hawkeye10 said:


> Rick Rick Rick this is why your shop isn't insulated. You would get a work out if you would insulate your shop. What are we going to do with you??? :wink:


I think Rick has his priorities in order. First order of business is to find a woman who will put up with him before all hope is lost. He doesn't want to spend his twilight years in the cold frozen north all alone. To that end, he needs to be in top physical condition to offset the inevitable ravages of age. Once he has secured the affections of a female, maybe she will help him insulate.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I also agree with not using the expanding bolt. My experience with them is that they loosen easily. I've seen pretty good performance lately from just using Tapcon screws in cinder block. You could also use them in conjunction with a concrete adhesive caulk or epoxy for a little insurance. Keep in mind Rick that about 95% of the weight you'll have is straight shear force (going straight downward) and only maybe 5% is angular force wanting to pull away from the wall. You can improve the ratio by hanging the heaviest objects at the bottom of the panel and keeping everything as close to the wall as possible.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Had To Ask...*

Is the block wall insulated? :surprise:


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Rick,

First, let me tell you that my dear friend Hugh Johnson invented *"Space Wall"*. Space Wall is the original product that what you're using is a copy of. Space Wall is made of MDF or HDF and needs a moisture barrier between it and an exterior wall made of masonry or concrete. Just to keep this a Router Subject, this is manufactured using a series of routers that cuts all T grooves in a full sheet in one pass. Hugh's business uses Onsrund Diamond Cutter Bits and they use a lot of them!
My employees and I have tons of needs to securely attach "things" to a wide variety of wall types. It used to be frustrating, until my brother (a soon-to-retire commercial electrician) taught me about "*TOGGLER* HIGH PERFORMANCE ANCHORS". The benefits of using these is AMAZING! Once you have used these and see the obvious advantages, you will feel silly using anything else - I promise. I get them at Lowe's and they're probably sold in other stores, as well. They are not very expensive and I'm pretty sure these could be installed by anyone - quite easily. Go to Toggler & Wej-It Fastening Systems - the original wedge anchor for further info.

I hope this helps!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DonkeyHody said:


> I think Rick has his priorities in order. First order of business is to find a woman who will put up with him before all hope is lost. He doesn't want to spend his twilight years in the cold frozen north all alone. To that end, he needs to be in top physical condition to offset the inevitable ravages of age. Once he has secured the affections of a female, maybe she will help him insulate.


Well I had a good belly laugh there . Unfortunately I don’t think there’s to many woman that could cope with me lol . 
Tried more than a few times , and never ended well :grin:

And unfortunately my sweetie is spoken for . But Erin was born with a boyfriend . So there was no chance there


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I’m thinking of going back to plan B . I am going to put 4 vertical 2x6 along the wall , paint them white so they don’t really stand out . 
I am not going to secure them to the wall , but let them sit on there own weight .
I can secure them to a wood header at the top . 
I will dado out the sides in order for the horizontal pieces to secure better. Then use my pocket hole jig to attach the horizontal pieces .
If I leave a large enough border , I can paint molding and attach it around the perimeter of the StoreWall 

I will do a Sketchup later to illustrate it better


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Rick if you have a heavy load around the middle of the uprights then2 x on the flat can bow outward. I would use either the tapcons or what Otis suggested for a couple or 3 attachments between ends. I've used something like what Otis linked to for drywall and it is the only thing I'll use when I need to hang something that will have a load on it. I haven't seen then larger and longer for cinder block yet but I would use them if I could find them. They're made so that when you tighten the screw the tip flattens out to a t shape similar to a toggle bolt but with a smaller hole and easier to install.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Rick if you have a heavy load around the middle of the uprights then2 x on the flat can bow outward. I would use either the tapcons or what Otis suggested for a couple or 3 attachments between ends. I've used something like what Otis linked to for drywall and it is the only thing I'll use when I need to hang something that will have a load on it. I haven't seen then larger and longer for cinder block yet but I would use them if I could find them. They're made so that when you tighten the screw the tip flattens out to a t shape similar to a toggle bolt but with a smaller hole and easier to install.


Good point Charles , and in that case I may as well just go for the floating look , as it will best to secure it anyways . 
I’m thinking of not going into a hollow spot on the block ,so the Togglers won’t work,so I’m debating to use the double expanding metal ones that Dan mentioned


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well I had a good belly laugh there . Unfortunately I don’t think there’s to many woman that could cope with me lol .
> Tried more than a few times , and never ended well :grin:
> 
> And unfortunately my sweetie is spoken for . But Erin was born with a boyfriend . So there was no chance there


Well, you certainly know how to pick 'em! Maybe you should fish in some other water . . .


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Good point Charles , and in that case I may as well just go for the floating look , as it will best to secure it anyways .
> I’m thinking of not going into a hollow spot on the block ,so the Togglers won’t work,so I’m debating to use the double expanding metal ones that Dan mentioned


After doing a lot of searching on the internet, seems like Tapcon and Construction adhesive is the preferred way to go. But it is recommended that if the load is over 100# that 2X4 legs under the bottom 2X4 rail should be used.
It might be wise to use a combination of methods ,like the one Otis recommends as well as an abundance of fasteners./
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DonkeyHody said:


> Well, you certainly know how to pick 'em! Maybe you should fish in some other water . . .


Well I heard Angelina Jolie and Brad Pit were calling it quits . I was thinking maybe she’s getting tired of these macho good looking type guys , and maybe more into short fat bald broke guys instead .
I know it would be a big jump for her all at once though :|


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I also agree with not using the expanding bolt. My experience with them is that they loosen easily. I've seen pretty good performance lately from just using Tapcon screws in cinder block. You could also use them in conjunction with a concrete adhesive caulk or epoxy for a little insurance. Keep in mind Rick that about 95% of the weight you'll have is straight shear force (going straight downward) and only maybe 5% is angular force wanting to pull away from the wall. You can improve the ratio by hanging the heaviest objects at the bottom of the panel and keeping everything as close to the wall as possible.





Herb Stoops said:


> After doing a lot of searching on the internet, seems like Tapcon and Construction adhesive is the preferred way to go. But it is recommended that if the load is over 100# that 2X4 legs under the bottom 2X4 rail should be used.
> It might be wise to use a combination of methods ,like the one Otis recommends as well as an abundance of fasteners./
> Herb


Charles and Herb , I never thought about using epoxy or adhesive in the holes in conjunction with the Tapcons.
May be a nuisance , but I can see that being great insurance , and as you mentioned, metal ones that expand may loosen off at some point .

Herb it may be wishful thinking on my part , but ideally I wanted it to float . I think it may come down to needing supports as you say though .


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

I agree with Vince and Herb on the quick bolts. I've used them very successfully in concrete to anchor decks but I wouldn't recommend them for cinder blocks.

The alternatives offered look good to me but I've no experience with the same.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Put adhesive on the back of the 2X4's too and if you use enough fasteners like on 12"o.c. on the rails and intermediate vertical 4X4s, you might not need the legs.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb , I misunderstood the product installation. They want install strips on every stud . I’m not happy about this as I’m pretty much building a wall now .

It would be ok , if it weren’t for the fact I get water at the bottom of the wall on occasion .
The wall up higher has been fine with no humidity that I noticed, so I thought I would paint the 2x4’s with a good primer before attaching. I want them secured so that there flat and only 1 1/2” deep . 
This way the plastic StoreWall can be secured on its French cleat system , and easily removed for inspection. 
So now I need to attach a bunch of additional boards in between the sides ,when at first I only thought I needed a few between the sides . 

I guess it’s no big deal in reality, as I can use my pocket hole jig to install additional vertical studs . Just more involved than I signed up for


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Can you put a sheet of plywood over the 2X4's? Or use 1X4's and a sheet of 3/4" plywood ?

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Can you put a sheet of plywood over the 2X4's? Or use 1X4's and a sheet of 3/4" plywood ?
> 
> Herb


I thought of that also, but my concern was the possibility of humidity . So my thinking was to have it breath as best it can .

I tried to cancel the order . It may be to late , and I won’t know till tomorrow. But this is starting to be more of a pita than I thought I sighed up for .
I love the product , but I can always work around it.

I certainly appreciate all your guys input, thanks


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

What if you have 1X4's vertical @ 16" o.c. glued and fastened to the cinder block with no horizontal rails. Then screw 3/4" plywood to that. The air could circulate up thru the back of the panel. Then install the metal clips for the StoreWall on the plywood. It shows them on garage walls so it should work for you.

StoreWall is made of foam center solid plastic, a little humidity won't hurt it. The SlatWall is MDF, it might be a different story.

Look at the p.2 right hand side secound from the bottom it states:

storeWALL durability
StoreWALL can be installed nearly anywhere:
indoors, outdoors and in high humidity locations. The
panel is water proof and UV resistant.
If the installation is subject to wide temperature
extremes, allow for panel expansion. Avoid installation
in exceptionally high temperature locations.

http://www.ultimate-garage.com/slatwall.pdf

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

You are making it approx. 4' hi X13' long.

Cut 1X4's 4' long and fasten them to the wall vertically every 16", glue the back and use Tapcon fasteners 5 per each 1X4, ( approx. 10) to get 13' long. (12' would be better) 

Screw and glue 3/4" plywood over the 1X4's. (that gives you your 1 1/2" shadow for floating effect).

Attach the metal StoreWall clips with screws to the plywood.

Install the StoreWall. 

https://www.storewall.com/

And it is on sale right now too,15% off.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> You are making it approx. 4' hi X13' long.
> 
> Cut 1X4's 4' long and fasten them to the wall vertically every 16", glue the back and use Tapcon fasteners 5 per each 1X4, ( approx. 10) to get 13' long. (12' would be better)
> 
> ...


use PL Premium for adhesive...
where the hole blows out for the tapcon switch to toggle style hollow wall...
in fact, use the hollow wall everywhere...
.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> You are making it approx. 4' hi X13' long.
> 
> glue the back and use Tapcon fasteners 5 per each 1X4, ( approx. 10) to get 13' long. (12' would be better)
> 
> Herb


if you use the tapcons, use 3/16 tapcons...
if they strip, remove it and replace it w/ a 1/4'' tapcon...
if the 1/4'' strip.. stop using your impact to install them...


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I agree Don , as I’m a pro at starting ten projects at once, but not completing any .
> I’ve been on and off my bathroom Reno for a decade , and I’m waiting for parts for the gym, so I sidetracked myself and went back to the bathroom . All the while I have to hustle and get a pit dig so a sump pump can be installed before the next flood .
> Springs a coming!


Rick, Cinder Block ? That's a new one. I've never heard of cinder block being used for a basement. Above ground, yes. But I didn't think cinder block would be code even as old as you say your house is. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Rick, when all is said and done, studs, tapcons, adhesive, chewing gum or whatever, just don't stand or sit near the finished wall. You might not get to use all those nice tools. Just a thought.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> You are making it approx. 4' hi X13' long.
> 
> Cut 1X4's 4' long and fasten them to the wall vertically every 16", glue the back and use Tapcon fasteners 5 per each 1X4, ( approx. 10) to get 13' long. (12' would be better)
> 
> ...



Herb , that’s actually a great idea ! 
Dang , and I canceled the order this morning , and the guy was a tad disappointed to say the least . 
He had it all ready for shipping , and had to cancel the freight company . 
I really like this product too , as it would certainly be more versatile than anything I could come up with .
When the weathers better I may just go for a drive and pick the stuff up , but for now I’m looking at differant options for my accessories.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

thomas1389 said:


> Rick, Cinder Block ? That's a new one. I've never heard of cinder block being used for a basement. Above ground, yes. But I didn't think cinder block would be code even as old as you say your house is. Correct me if I'm wrong, please.


Yes big mistake on my part . The house is from the 40’s and the entire house is made of blocks . Makes for a real pita to work on, plus there’s mold inside the hollow areas. 
I’m trying to design some type of system with an air compressor to blow mortar in the hollows . I have a heavy duty hammer drill and bits , just need a way to insert mortar or cement . Don’t want to physically have to take out an entire block to pour concrete , so I’m trying to invent something.
I think this one is better left to seasoned inventors like Otis though


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Yes big mistake on my part . The house is from the 40’s and the entire house is made of blocks . Makes for a real pita to work on, plus there’s mold inside the hollow areas.
> I’m trying to design some type of system with an air compressor to blow mortar in the hollows . I have a heavy duty hammer drill and bits , just need a way to insert mortar or cement . Don’t want to physically have to take out an entire block to pour concrete , so I’m trying to invent something.
> I think this one is better left to seasoned inventors like Otis though


They might be able to pump in that liquid that foams up to fill the cells. All they would have to do is drill a 1" hole at the top row and let the liquid find its way down to the bottom . I think it is Polyethelene foam and is closed cell so as not to absorb moisture. It solves 2 problems at once, fills the cells and insulates.

http://www.cfifoam.com/foam-insulation/core-foam/

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> They might be able to pump in that liquid that foams up to fill the cells. All they would have to do is drill a 1" hole at the top row and let the liquid find its way down to the bottom . I think it is Polyethelene foam and is closed cell so as not to absorb moisture. It solves 2 problems at once, fills the cells and insulates.
> 
> Injection Foam | Foam-in-Place | Foam Insulation | Aminoplast | Block Foam | Masonry Foam | Retrofit Insulation | Injection Foam Insulation - Core Foam Masonry Foam Insulation® | cfiFOAM, Inc.
> 
> Herb


Thanks Herb . 
I seen that before where they drilled a bunch of small holes vertically, and pumped it in till it sprayed out the others. Hate to see the cost though, but it’s a great solution. 
My idea with cement would be the opposite of insulating , no surprise there though eh :grin:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

You might check into doing it yourself. It wouldn't be as messy as mortar. 

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> You might check into doing it yourself. It wouldn't be as messy as mortar.
> 
> Herb


Yes I’ve contimplated it , but in my research I found it’s a; entirely different foam . A very low rise and almost like shaving cream . And it gets worse, you don’t buy it in bottles , it’s a trailer equipped system .
If I could , it would sure be easier on the back then cement though


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick; check out the marine version; it's used for foaming flotation...
Slow Rise 600 Spray Foam Kit - Tiger Foam
Foams


.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Rick; check out the marine version; it's used for foaming flotation...
> Slow Rise 600 Spray Foam Kit - Tiger Foam
> Foams
> 
> ...


Kind of spendy ,Dan, the fast foam = $14.78/ CMU block, Which means that every lineal foot of an 8' hi wall will cost $66.51. to fill the cells.

and the slow foam is = $8.49 / CMU block, or $38.21 per lineal foot of 8' hi wall. 

That is just for material, and there will be some waste too.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, I'm just the messenger! 
Rick said he couldn't find the stuff in convenient sizes...
I think this is one of those projects you call in a guy who has the equipment and does it every day.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, I'm just the messenger!
> Rick said he couldn't find the stuff in convenient sizes...
> I think this is one of those projects you call in a guy who has the equipment and does it every day.


I was the one advocating him doing it himself,but I didn't realize the cost of the material and what it would cost to do the job. I would guess that having an outfit come and do it would be prohibitive. The most economical would be to frame a wall inside the block wall and insulate that.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> I was the one advocating him doing it himself,but I didn't realize the cost of the material and what it would cost to do the job. I would guess that having an outfit come and do it would be prohibitive. The most economical would be to frame a wall inside the block wall and insulate that.
> Herb


In my bathroom and one bedroom , I did just that Herb . I framed a wall , loosing 3.5” of room , and had them spray it . 
But that still doesn’t do anything about the open cells geting musky .I need to fill those puppies somehow . 
I was hoping to win the lottery and just get the pile of crap knocked down with a track excavator like it should be . But the odds aren’t good lol 

Herb I’m kicking myself for not having that StoreWall shipped . The guys going to freak if I make him go threw all this crap again .
I started getting intimidated and a bit put out when I started thinking about all the extra hassle it would involve to install the StoreWall , but I liked your idea with the vertical 1x4’s . 
Tell you the truth , I’d just do the vertical boards and not bother with additional plywood . That way I could easily remove the StoreWall sections for inspection if neccesary. 
I’m going to buy some Tapcons and expoxy and do a test tomorrow and see how well a board appears to hold. 
If it looks promising , I’ll install the other 9.

Here is a video showing the install strips . Kind of like a French cleat system . And the seller said there finicky, so the wall has to be real flat . If the wood strips don’t end up beimg flat enough , it may come down to adding a layer of plywood , but I’d prefer not to


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

That looks easy enough, Rick. 
The only reason I suggested lumber under the clips was that you wanted a Floating look by building it out from the wall.
Putting the clips right on the wall will work good too.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> That looks easy enough, Rick.
> The only reason I suggested lumber under the clips was that you wanted a Floating look by building it out from the wall.
> Putting the clips right on the wall will work good too.
> 
> Herb


The guy told me the strips were pretty fussy, and he wouldn’t suggest going directly to the cinder block ,as they may be to uneven .
He suggested what you did , have plywood on the wall . I was hoping to get away with just 1x4 strips. That would only leve enough depth for a 3/4” screw. But I think that should be plenty, as there looks like a lot of holes available on the wall strips.
The wall strips are actually 45” tall , as the ones in the video have been broken down to there 15” size .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Just read what I think is a great tip . If the Tapcons strip in the hole , put a piece of 14 gauge copper wire in the hole and put the screw back in along side it . 
Makes sense to me


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, crikey...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb, I’m terrible at describing things . When I said floating , I meant I didn’t want any support underneath the slot wall , as I thought it would look better . Plus the wall leaks down below . I’m putting in a sump pit and pump in soon in the other room in hopes of not having a repeat of last year . 
I’m going to do a test today and see how well the Tapcons work with wire . I don’t really want to drill into the hollow part of the block, but maybe it will come to that


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Mmmm...Maybe not*

:surprise: Oh, crikey 2.0...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Space the 1 bys so that you don't screw into a hollow and turn the tapcons in with a wrench, at least the last few turns, so that you don't strip them out. Snug is good and using a concrete caulk or epoxy will prevent them from loosening off. Remember that most of the force is downward shear force as I said earlier. As long as there is nothing suspended very far away from the wall there won't be much force trying to pull away from the wall. And keep all the heaviest items at the bottom of the panel.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Just read what I think is a great tip . If the Tapcons strip in the hole , put a piece of 14 gauge copper wire in the hole and put the screw back in along side it .
> Makes sense to me


that trick holds the screw in the hole but contributes nothing to holding power/strength...
stripped screws need a sleeve..

.










I know why liquid nails is so popular...
it's roughly a third the cost of PL...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> that trick holds the screw in the hole but contributes nothing to holding power/strength...
> stripped screws need a sleeve..
> 
> .
> ...


Well darn it Stick, I thought the wire was a valid idea . And I did something simular to what your saying , as when they stripped ,which was most of the time , I drilled tho hole to accommodate a lead insert . When the Tapcon went in , it seemed secure from what I’ve experienced.
I’m tempted to inquire about expoxy when I’m at Home Depot , as I’ve never done it that way .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

if the tapcon strips a lot either the hole is too large or there isn't enough of material depth or you are over torquing them...
there are tapcon bits rated by dia for mortar, concrete and block..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ya know Rick...
you lack the experience of using tapcons correctly in their different applications and what it takes to address their idiosyncrasies.....
why don't you use some other time proven method... they have been thoroughly covered here...

mistake.... 
#1... not RTFM/RTFPDF put out by tapcon...
#2.. using a hammer drill to drill the block, not drilling a clean hole and blowing out the other side of the block..
#3... not using the torque limiters...
#4... wrong size bit...
#5... installing tapcons in wet or excessively damp block...
and on and on..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick , I did watch the video they provide , and yes , I believe my biggest mistake was not cleaning the hole .
I have hammer drill now,but can’t remember if I used one way back in the day .
I bought #14 screws and lead inserts today rated for that size screw , as I was a little nervous about the .
Probably would have worked fine though . Today is just a proof of concept for me


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The block is porous so using an adhesive caulk or an epoxy will fill in the empty spaces as well as toughen up the cement matrix plus work to resist the fastener loosening off. I do the same thing with wood at times. I.E. add a little glue in the hole before I drive the screw in.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

I used to install signs and awnings with 3/8 inch lags on mostly concrete, block or brick. We used nylon shields much like the regular wall plugs only bigger. I walked around in awnings doing wiring and stuff, so I trust them  It doesn't matter if you hit the block's void or not. I saw some very similar in a Brafasco catalog. Dunno if I'd trust some cheap ones that I see online... you want a decent material.


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## Jontaylor (Jul 12, 2019)

How to reinstall the wood floor in the kitchen?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Jontaylor said:


> How to reinstall the wood floor in the kitchen?


Nope. Installing 1x4 strips of wood to a cinderblock wall in order to have something to secure to


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Rick, it's concrete block, not cinder block.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

thomas1389 said:


> Rick, it's concrete block, not cinder block.


Ok i actually didn’t know there was a difference?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ok i actually didn’t know there was a difference?




Concrete blocks are made of pure concrete. That is, the aggregates used are finely crushed stone or sand.
Cinder Blocks

Cinder blocks are also made from concrete, but the aggregate includes either coal cinders or ash. Consequently, cinder blocks are much lighter than concrete blocks.

Concrete and cinder blocks are made with open cells that can accept metal reinforcing or additional concrete for greater strength. Concrete blocks are far stronger than cinder blocks. Some building codes expressly prohibit the use of cinder blocks in construction projects.

Cinder blocks are also made from concrete, but the aggregate includes either coal cinders or ash. Consequently, cinder blocks are much lighter than concrete block.

Strength

Concrete blocks are far stronger than cinder blocks.

HErb


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