# NEW here...



## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Hey everyone, new here and got a couple of questions. I was given a Porter Cable 100 and it doesn't have a collet wrench, can I use a regular wrench to change out the bit? If not, where can I get one from? I believe the model # of the OEM wrench is #42157. Also, I read a how to on making a router table in a book and for the opening (where the bit comes through) it said to "put a large straight bit in, start up the router and push through." So, how "large" of a bit will I need to create this opening? I was just going to use a hole saw, but the book stated that the hole shouldn't bee too big. How big is too big, and how small is too small. Thanks in advance for ANY help.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi chadmiha

To start with any wrench will do the job the norm,just as long it fits the nut right.

The PC 100 is a bit to small for the router table it's only 7/8HP, makes a great trim router. (or light work)

Not to sure what you mean by "start up the router and push through" are you saying you want to make and use the router in a router table. ?
You may want to look at a PC or other routers that's are 2HP or more for a router table.
Sears sells a great router combo setup for 110.oo bucks.

More info needed 

Bj


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Welcome to the forums. As Bob said, as long as the wrench fits on the nut. You should be able to find out what size the collet nut is from the manual I would think. 

Corey


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The Porter Cable 100 router is a duplicate of the original Rockwell router, after the company split into Delta for stationary tools and PC for portable tools. It is as BJ said not powerful enough for working with hardwood but you should be ok with pine. You can use a 1" hole saw for your opening. It will be close enough for most jobs. I own one of the original Rockwells and it is mounted as an overarm router. It's a nice little machine as long as you don't ask too much of it.


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

I will be using the PC100 for just making speaker rings for now. I will be using 3/4 MDF for these rings. I bought a Jasper 200 circle jig and a 1/4 spiral up cut to cut the rings. I plan on making a simple router table just to roundover the edges, will the router/ work piece be okay with only 7/8 HP? Also, How far can the roundover (1/4) protrude from the collet? I noticed that if it is mounted under a table, the bit would have to be pulled out a bit to be used from the top of the table. Is there a better way to roundover the circles edges? Thanks so much for the support guys.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chad 

"roundover the circles edges"
Use a round over bit with a bearing on it then you don't need to use the router table.
7/8Hp should do a find job 

Bj


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

The roundover I bought has a bearing on the bottom, I treid to post the link to home Depot, but it wouldn't work. Will this be okay to use w/o a table? If so, do I just use the Jasper to cut the outside of the circle, change bits (from spiral to roundover) then still use the jasper and roundover the edges? Thanks so much for ya'lls patience.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

chadmiha you won't be able to post a link until you have made at least 10 posts. This is a preventive measure against spammers.
As to the round-over bit with the bearing, you don't have to use the circle jig with it. That's what the bearing is for. After cutting the circle simply run the round-over bit around the circle and the bearing limits the depth of cut and will follow around the circle. You will need a non-slip mat or some other method to hold the piece to keep it from moving on you while routing. Just in case you didn't know, If you are routing outside the circle you go in a counter clockwise direction. Inside the circle is clockwise. Always rout against the rotation of the bit. That's all there is to it.
Maybe you could post some pictures so we can see how it turns out.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

*W e l c o m e . . A b o a r d . . . Chad !!*

You hit the gate running!

And you're learning... Enjoy it...


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Alright guys, I'm pretty confident in attempting to rout these rings. As soon as the Jasper comes in (in a day or two) I'm going to try and whatever the outcome I will post some pics. Any suggestions on what I should set the depth for the roundover and spiral, or is it trial and error? Once again, all your help in helping me is appreciated GREATLY, thanks again.
Chad


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chad

This what I would do/recommend 
For making speaker rings ....

When you get your Jasper rework the jig just a bit (see below) bolt it up to your router ,set the pin in place, pop in a plunge round over bit then make your 1st pass with the round over bit (see link below for the bit ) once you have that done pop in your 1/4" bit and cut your cir.out and your done.

You can filp the Jasper over and do both sides of the round over if you want then use your 1/4" bit and cut the cir. free.
Doing it this way you make it easy on the bits and can just make one pass to cut the cir.out.

Flat Bottom Round Over
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_groov.html

NOTE**** Most of the Cons. reviews on the Jasper Jig are about the holes breaking out of the jig, if you take a hard look at one of the snapshots below you can see why, they are drilled to deep in the jig or to say the jig is to thin but you can over come this error by using the brass guides in the jig.

Many Routers use a flat head screw to mount the base plate to the router and that's the same screw you need to use to mount the Jasper BUT if you torq it down ,the hole in the Jasper Jig will snap, and you just trashed a 30.oo jig, also if you use pan head screws the same will come about because you have no support under the screw so to speak (counter sink hole under the mounting screw) The Jasper Jig is a GREAT Jig but you must out think the Mfg.when it comes time to use it over and over. 
They do make a small ring that you can use under the flat head screw that will let put the load down flat and put the load out just a bit,it looks like a flat washer (same size as a flat head screw) but with a counter sink in center of the flat washer,harden steel.
The Jasper comes with most of the screws to fit the routers they list on the pack BUT they are small Pan Head Type,if you use the screws that come with it besure to use a flat thin washer under the head (it must be the right one, for the over size drilled hole) 
Sorry to push this point so hard but the hole in the jig will snap out, it's only 1/16" thick or less.
Hope this helps you and other user of the Jasper Jig. 


Bj


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Bob, thanks for the heads up on the flat bottom roundover bit, but I'm anxious to get these done so I'm going to stick to the roundover that I already have. I'm just a little concerned about the amount of control I'm going to need rounding over the circle without the Jasper. Should I be okay, or will the jig save my piece from noob destruction? Oh, by the way I got my Jasper today (aren't new tools/toys great?), pretty quick shipping to Hawaii, only 3 days. Well, thanks again hope to post pics in the next couple of days.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

chadmiha you shouldn't have any problem with control with the bearing on the round-over bit as long as you just keep the router flat on the surface (vertical), the bearing against the edge and move the router in the correct direction (into the rotation of the bit). Why not practice on some scrap until you are comfortable with the process?


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Yeah, I know that I'm probably just over thinking/worrying about this and I should be okay once I start and get a hands on feel. Plus, I'm only working with inexpensive MDF, it's not like its Koa or anything. Thanks to everyone who took the time out to help me with (just) speaker rings. I'll try to get it done on Sunday and take some pics. Thanks again.
Chad


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

You are very welcome, that's what we are here for. Good luck on your project and I will be looking forward to seeing some pictures of the results.


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

I told you I'd take pics even if it was bad...please help, what happened? 

Outside:



























Inside:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

One of the rules of thumb is to make your cuts no more than 1/4" at a time. Once you have gotten the feel for your router and its operation you can alter this based on performance. The reason you ended up with the "tab" on the outside is your material was no longer secured to anything. You can place double sided carpet tape underneath your rings to help hold them in place. Depending on the application you may be able to screw through the ring to hold it in place, this is more secure. To help reduce tear out you can raise your round over bit slightly for the first cut and then you will just be making a fine finish cut on the second pass.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Welcome to the forums!

Corey


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Well, here's what I did. The first cut I made was the outside. I clamped the MDF in between 2 horses and made the cut. There was nothing to support the piece from falling to the ground. Then to cut the inner part of the ring I taped the circle to the top of another piece of MDF, set the Jasper and made the inner cut. ( all cut were made with one pass) So, for the 1st cut (outter) should I have something supporting the piece from underneath? And if I'm making too deep of a cut, should I cut half way through the 3/4 MDF, flip the piece and cut the rest out from the other side? I was kinda in a rush (racing sunlight) and hopefully with a couple of tips will do better next time. Thanks again guys...
Chad


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chad

Give this a try 

1st pick up some double sided carpet tape (2" wide) clamp your SUPPORT board to the saw horse then put the tape on the ring stock ( 2 strips min.) press it to the support board (tap it with a wooden hammer) to make sure it's down , drill your 1/8" hole for the center hole for the Jasper jig, then set your router to just at 3/4" deep, then fire up the router and make a pass or two to cut out the OUTside of the ring now reset the Jasper to make the INside pass once you have the cir.cut out take a hammer (or a small pry bar) and pop up the outside of the stock then chuck up your round over bit and go around the ring now pop out the center of the cir. and use the round over bit on the inside of the ring.
Made sure the ring is down good b/4 you use the round over bit,if it's not pop it up (with care) and retape the ring so it can't move around.

Good LUck

Bj 




chadmiha said:


> Well, here's what I did. The first cut I made was the outside. I clamped the MDF in between 2 horses and made the cut. There was nothing to support the piece from falling to the ground. Then to cut the inner part of the ring I taped the circle to the top of another piece of MDF, set the Jasper and made the inner cut. ( all cut were made with one pass) So, for the 1st cut (outter) should I have something supporting the piece from underneath? And if I'm making too deep of a cut, should I cut half way through the 3/4 MDF, flip the piece and cut the rest out from the other side? I was kinda in a rush (racing sunlight) and hopefully with a couple of tips will do better next time. Thanks again guys...
> Chad


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks bj, I'll give it a try on Sunday. Thanks again for the support.
Chad


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Okay, here's round 2. I'm happy with the outcome, but I know that there's still a lot of room for improvment. Still need to sand a bit, but here they are. These pics are with the top and bottom rings glued together. The top ring got rounded over, the bottom one did not. Any input is welcomed.




























With speaker in:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

If you glue your pieces together before routing your glue line will virtually disappear. You should end up with a nice smooth surface. I still suggest plunging in steps of less than 1/2", make a pass, plunge etc.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chad

Here's a trick my son (who works for Car-Toys) will use all the time to get a nice clean part ,auto body filler (Bond-Do) it will fill the cracks and make the part strong so it can be painted or covered with vinyl, little heat from a gun and the vinyl will fit like a sock.

If you put a nice light coat on and use a flush trim bit or light sanding it will come out clean, nice to the touch.

NOTE*** You did a nice job and it's going to look great   

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Chad,

I think you're doing great!!  I like the Bondo Tip (cool)...

I have to ask you a 'stupid' question...
When I was into HiFi / Stereo audio many years ago, all I (we) 
did was drill some holes around a hole in a plywood panel and 
mount the speaker then covered with a plastic fabric, etc.

Now, I hear a new term and see some New pictures...

How are these 'speaker rings' really used? Do you screw the 
spkrs to the ring then mount the ring to cabinet?

Thank you...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Just a bud in, most of the time this type of speaker is mounted to a panel the norm,it can be a door panel,side rear panel,rear window panel,outside of the speaker box,etc. but they now do many neat things with speakers now days, my son makes speaker boxes that are so neat and cost 300.oo to 3,000.oo or more it's Big money now days,he just got done with one that went for $17,000.oo in a HUMMMMER  and took 3 weeks to get it done. 

Talking about speakers, he did one that would blow your ears out if it was all the way up, it would move the glass in and out on the doors , MAN  the doors had concrete in behind the door panels so they would not move/flex   in my day they called alot of cars lead sleds now they call them concrete blocks. LOL

Bj


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Joe, some added information that might be of use: High frequencies are very directional. This is why most new surround sound systems use the small speakers aimed at the listening area from different angles. Low's are multi-directional. One sub woofer will radiate the deep base in all areas. Mid range speakers fall in between and sound "fuller" the closer they are to a wall and towards the corners, as a rule. And like with any other rule there are exceptions caused by speaker design. Ohm Walsh 2 speakers use a driver mounted facing down with a base port on the bottom of the cabinet and a tweeter that fires off one corner of the cabinet. This allows for the imaging to sound right. You get the feeling you are inside the band.


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## chadmiha (Mar 20, 2007)

Hey thanks for all the input guys. And Joe, BJ was right these are going to be door pods when they're done. The rings will act as the skeleton for the fiberglass that will cover them. The bottom ring is for the speaker to mount to and the top ring will ensure that the speaker sits flush instead of sticking out past the pod. I needed to round over the ring to "soften" the edges a bit. I know that most of the projects on here aren't hidden with fiberglass, but the importance of a good base is crucial to have a good outcome. I'd love to post pics of the end project, but am not sure if it's okay on the forum.(Since it's fiberglass and not wood.) I'm sure a mod will let me know. I just wanted to thank everyone who helped me get through my first router project. I realy couldn't have done it without you guys. 
Chad


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You'er Welcome Chad for my small input 

To round over the InSide of the ring, you must take care at this point, the MDF will snap like a twig (chip out) ,I recommend you make a sanding block, that just fits the inside of the ring with the round over you want then glue on some sanding paper to it and start sanding light with some 180 paper. 

The cut out part of cir. would work good for the job, just cut into 4 parts,screw on a 2 x 4 block so you can hold on to it and glue 2 of the parts as one (step block) this will keep a nice clean edge on the ring.
Besure to put your round over edge on one of the parts b/4 you glue up the step sanding block

One more tip Chad ,don't try and screw into the MDF, if you are going to mount them to panel from the back side, drill a 1/2" hole and glue in some wood dowels and predrill and screw into them , MDF likes to pull out easy but the plugs will help hold it when you crank it up, the brass or steel threaded inserts don't hold well in MDF also.


Bj


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