# Veneering



## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

I want to try my hand at veneering for the first time. I'll be using crown cut mahogany on a pine sub-strate using (I thought) a cross linking PVA adhesive.
Two questions; Is it necessary to score the surface of the pine before applying the veneer for better bonding? Second, is the type of adhesive I plan to use satisfactory or might I get bleed-through? If so, what type of adhesive would be best? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I don't want to foul up on my first attempt.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Scoring is not needed. Any good wood glue or contact cement will work fine. Be sure to seal the underside of your project when you apply finish or the pine will take your veneer for a wild ride.


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## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

I personally do not score the surface of the wood I am veneering, and use contact cement. This has worked very fine for me.

The down side of contact cement it does not forgive you for errors, so lay it right the first time, it does not give a second chance.

I also have buddies that use wood glue, slower setting but will forgive mistakes and allow you to reposition your piece.

My 2 cents!

John


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

Try joewoodworker.com some good info on veneering and what products to use. In my experience it is better to veneer both sides of the substrate(less expensive veneer on the side that doesn't show) to even out the water vapor exchange. Mother Nature always wins so plan for it.

Regards

Jerry


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Thanks for the advice guys. 
Mike, about the pine taking the veneer for a 'wild ride', the pine I will be using is about 30 years old (the remains of the old bed I turned into a settle on the Show n Tell) so it should be well seasoned. Will that make a difference or are you warning me of something else?
John, thanks to you but the contact cement sounds frightening to a newbie like me. I think I'll need all the time I can get to place the veneer. Perhaps when I have more practice...
Jerry, great link to Joe Woodworker!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Anytime you are mixing wood species you face the dilema of different rates of moisture exchange or movement. Pine being much softer will move more so Jerry's idea of using a veneer on both sides has great merit. This is like when we build a plastic laminated router table top we cover both the top and bottom with laminate. When you limit movement on one side you are looking for trouble.


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Thanks Mike. Would there be any merit in choosing a different substrate such as ply or MDF? Or will I still face the same problem? The inside faces of the veneered panels will never be seen so if an aternate substrate isn't a fix, is there an alternative cover I could use on the inside to prevent the problem you've described?


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

You could use either. It is very important that the substrate is stable.

Regards

Jerry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Geordie

I would suggest you go to a garage sale and find a old cabinet/lowboy/table that was done at the furniture Mfg.then take it to your table saw and cut it up this will give you some great tips how the did it ....veneering was a big thing in the 20's & 40's in the states and I'm sure you can find some old furniture in Zealand that's not worth reworking.. 

The 1st.time I did this I surprise how they made the tops and some of the sides where made and how they did the joints, plus the gaps in the substrates to keep the bowing down to a min. plus how thin the veneering was...and it was only glued on to 1/8" plywood sometimes...



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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Thanks again guys. I think I'll consider ply as a substrate ( the project calls for 18mm or +/- 3/4" board). 
Bj, whenever I bring home an old piece of furniture SWMBO falls in love with it and won't let me cut it up  But I'll try.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

hahahahahahaha
B/4 you unload the item you got and b/4 the BOSS sees it put some mud on it and make it look like the junk that it is  
I have a lowboy that the boss wants me to rework, (two doors and 3 drawers 38" hight and about 20" wide and about 5ft long) made in the 30's or so and I said OK dear and that's been 8 years ago hahahahahaha I just hate that old veneer stuff it's almost easyer to start over with some solid stock..  and use the old neat hardware and be done with it..then take a chain to it to get that old look 




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nzgeordie said:


> Thanks again guys. I think I'll consider ply as a substrate ( the project calls for 18mm or +/- 3/4" board).
> Bj, whenever I bring home an old piece of furniture SWMBO falls in love with it and won't let me cut it up  But I'll try.


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## jerryc (Nov 27, 2007)

NZGeordie,

Can see a few problems arising from using pine or ply as a ground. If you lay the veneer along the same grain line as the ground it is most likely you will have the veneer cracking as the wood base will expand at a different rate to the veneer. It would not help in such an instance to veneer on each side because the problem would remain. 
If you do lay veneer on wood then it must be laid at right angles to the base grain. In effect creating another layer of ply. (Hope I'm making myself clear).

Yes I agree with the concept that what you do to one side of the wood must be done to the other to even out tensions.

On the use of contact as a method of veneering I personally never use it. Most of my veneering involves butt joining veneer to get effects I am looking for and one effect I do not want is to see gaps appear. Contact adhesive is a rubbery finish that creeps, too unstable for butt joining. It can be used where one continuous sheet of veneer is used, but there are better techniques. One method I use with success is to coat the veneer and base with cross linked PVA. Allow it to dry and then reactivated it with a household iron which is used to press the veneer into contact with the base. 

Jerry

War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left.


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Cheers Jerry (see my reply to your PM). I've decided to go with ply as a substrate as it seems more structurally stable. The project is a replica antique and the original piece had veneered outer surfaces with the inside surfaces covered with crimson glazed paper. I initially wondered why you would want to cover a surface that was unseen with a decorative finish then realized that it is a substitute for a lining veneer. What are your thoughts?


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

I have have used Baltic(Russian)Birch and Apple (North American) plywood and have not had any problems ever. Maybe I have just been lucky.

Regards

Jerry


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## jerryc (Nov 27, 2007)

*ply base*

Jerrymayfield,

Yep


Jerry

War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left


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