# Best Hand Saw?



## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

Okay folks, here I am again looking for guidance. Because my hands and wrists have been so smashed up so many times I am finding in my later years that I have real trouble using heavier power tools. Over the last couple of months I have rediscovered the joys of using a simple old fashioned manually powered hand saw. Just a small one. So, please provide some reccomendations for small hand saws. I am familiar with "Japanese" saws (pull saws) and have a couple of them up at the main place. I enjoy using them and have found a couple plain old Stanley's from Fleet Farm are nice. I've looked at some fancy REAL Japanese saws and, while they are nice, they are beyond me budget and also beyond my skill level.
So......what do you folks use for small, short, hand saws for basic cross-cutting most of the time?:help:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Warren


Don't hahahahahahaha LOL I got one from the model making shop that is 1/16" and 64 teeth and it's great for the fine crosscuts The Japanese saws are great too but a bit high in price..I have one or two but the model making saw will out cut them...if I recall it was 8 bucks with a Alum.miter box..but it will only cut a max of 3/4" thick stock..

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sourdough said:


> Okay folks, here I am again looking for guidance. Because my hands and wrists have been so smashed up so many times I am finding in my later years that I have real trouble using heavier power tools. Over the last couple of months I have rediscovered the joys of using a simple old fashioned manually powered hand saw. Just a small one. So, please provide some reccomendations for small hand saws. I am familiar with "Japanese" saws (pull saws) and have a couple of them up at the main place. I enjoy using them and have found a couple plain old Stanley's from Fleet Farm are nice. I've looked at some fancy REAL Japanese saws and, while they are nice, they are beyond me budget and also beyond my skill level.
> So......what do you folks use for small, short, hand saws for basic cross-cutting most of the time?:help:


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## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

I use the Japanese saws, I found a couple of them at a Home Depot that was closing and got them for something like $4.00 each. Used one so much I about have it worn out.


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## anotherBob (Oct 28, 2009)

sourdough said:


> So......what do you folks use for small, short, hand saws for basic cross-cutting most of the time?


When you say *"small, short"*... are you saying joinery?

Recently picked up a Veritas 14 tpi dovetail saw, and it's an absolute pleasure to use. They also have the same saw with 20tpi for cutting thin drawer/box stock, and a 16 tpi small crosscut saw which ought to work great for strictly crosscuts. You can see all three here: Veritas® Dovetail & Crosscut Saws - Lee Valley Tools

Pretty good review of my/their dovetail saw here:
Popular Woodworking - Veritas Rethinks the Dovetail Saw

If you need links for sharpening/maintainence, let me know...


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Opening can of worms...

I would ask that you supply a little more information, specifically, what size of workpieces are you expecting to deal with.

This is because you have the choice between panel saws and back saws. For small work at the bench, a pair of medium sized (say 14") tenon saws, one cross cut, one rip, will get you through most joinery and stock prep except dovetails or ultra fine joints. The 14" backsaws are a little to unwieldy. If however you are talking about stock break down at a saw bench, then a panel saw would be more appropriate. There a vintage D-8 or D-23 can be had and fixed up pretty cheaply. Or you can spend a little more and buy new equivalents from Lie-Nielson, PAX, BadAxe and others.

I did a little shopping on eBay and came up with an A.C. Atkins 5-1/2 point rip that after a little filing and re-setting will hog through FAST. And a D-23 (11tpi I think) set for cross cut that does a good job. In both cases, less than $50 each including buying some new files and locating a used saw set. Saw vices you can make. Making yourself a saw bench (not the same as a saw horse, lower and wider, about the height of your knee) really makes handsawing a much easier task.

For my bench work I'm using a no-name 12" backsaw (that I'll probably ditch soon, it really isn't very good no matter how I rework the teeth) and the Veritas dovetail saw. That is a sweet saw for the money but you don't have much depth to the rib so only good for dovetails, small tenons and other light work.

I recently got to play with all the Lie-Nielson saws at a LN handtool event and they are all great. Their panel saws were fantastic, now I know how much more work I need to do on my "antiques". 

And other other thought, for small bench work, you can get away with only a rip cut filed saw. They will cross cut just fine however you will end up with a bit more jagged edge. That can be addressed using a marking knife to pre-score the work and by adding a shooting board to the post-saw steps.

Closing can of worms...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Warren... Rob got it pretty well covered up there for western saws! Sound advise and recommendations. Disston saws can be found just about everywhere. The D8's and 23's have a quality made blade that is easily reworked to whatever specs you might want. anything from 4.5ppi to 12 ppi. The D12 were Disston top of the line saw and if you can find one of these beauties affordably, it is well worth latching onto. Right now, I've 3 D8's in the shop in various stages of restoration. Another option is to pick up on e of the smaller saws out there and have it redone to achieve the results your looking for. A task easily handled by a good saw sharpener, or yourself if your so inclined to learn the craft. Which isn't all that hard to learn...
A good backsaw is a joy to use!! But you are limited by the saw itself. A good one will run you a hundred bucks and up (give or take new) Primarily used for joinery and dovetail working, this may not be your first choice in saws...
As for Japanese pullsaws, I've several and can tell you IMHO, they are just incredible. they do have a bit of a learning curve and the better saws can easily be damaged if your not careful. One of the downsides is that resharpening is a bit more tricky (a skill i've yet to master) and they are generally pretty job specific with the Ryoba pretty much being the general purpose go to type of saw. 

both Stanley and Craftsman make a nice 15" saw in fine and coarse point for about 20 buck each. New, they all could serve you very well and when it comes time to sharpen, give it a try...or just take it to the sawer's shop. BUT, keep an eye out for deals on any of the other saws mentioned. 

hope this helps..

bill


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I use pull saws all the time. Far better than any other "hand saw" with the exception of a good coping saw. IMHO, these, (pull saws and coping saws), are a must have in your tool usage.

Just my opinion nothing more.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ken...

Have you tried any of the Bridge City tool works pullsaws? Sweet!!


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

Thank you again gentlemen, you have provided me a great deal of useful information. My need is for a little saw I can grab when I want to make a quick cut i.e. take a couple inches off the end of a piece of 1"X 4" or cut across a piece of 1X6" oak or ash. I usually have tools that are far better than my skill level simply because they are such a joy to use.
I appreciate your efforts. Thank you.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

sourdough said:


> Thank you again gentlemen, you have provided me a great deal of useful information. My need is for a little saw I can grab when I want to make a quick cut i.e. take a couple inches off the end of a piece of 4"X 4" or cut across a piece of 6" oak or ash. I usually have tools that are far better than my skill level simply because they are such a joy to use.
> I appreciate your efforts. Thank you.


Sounds then like you want a cross-cut filed panel saw. Or you could just use a "tool box saw". Those are shorter panel saws. Not as efficient as the longer 24-28" saws but easier to store. They sometimes have more aggressive teeth with a wide set to accommodate a thicker saw plate. Their small size makes them a candidate for getting tossed around so they have to be a little more stout.

What is your budget?


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

rwyoung said:


> Sounds then like you want a cross-cut filed panel saw. Or you could just use a "tool box saw". Those are shorter panel saws. Not as efficient as the longer 24-28" saws but easier to store. They sometimes have more aggressive teeth with a wide set to accommodate a thicker saw plate. Their small size makes them a candidate for getting tossed around so they have to be a little more stout.
> 
> What is your budget?


As usual, my budget knows no bounds. I also must confess my abysmal ignorace about saws. I do not know a panel saw from a see saw nor a back saw from a front saw. I believe you are correct when you use the term "ttol box saw". I DO have a little Irwin saw about 20" overall and another little generic saw, similar size, that cuts even faster and cleaner than the Irwin. I'm sure a cross cut saw is what I need. I have plenty of power tools but am finding that once I break stock down a little hand saw is easiest to use for my poor hands.
Thank you again. Oh! I DO know that Disston saws are top of the line.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Ken...
> 
> Have you tried any of the Bridge City tool works pullsaws? Sweet!!


Hi Bill,

No I haven't. I have tried these though. The Japan Woodworker Catalog - Double Edge (Ryoba)

If one could afford them, they're worth it. The price is the killer though.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Howdy Ken..

I've several of the BCTW's saw's and have to say, they are just a joy to use. A couple will in fact leave a perfectly smooth finish on hardwood end grain. Pretty much high middle of the road kinda prices, but the occasionally offer pretty good deals...little by little as they say...

The saws in your link are high end, handmade works of art! I've never had the chance to use one like that, but boy I sure would like to give one a pull or two.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

sourdough said:


> As usual, my budget knows no bounds. I also must confess my abysmal ignorace about saws. I do not know a panel saw from a see saw nor a back saw from a front saw. I believe you are correct when you use the term "ttol box saw". I DO have a little Irwin saw about 20" overall and another little generic saw, similar size, that cuts even faster and cleaner than the Irwin. I'm sure a cross cut saw is what I need. I have plenty of power tools but am finding that once I break stock down a little hand saw is easiest to use for my poor hands.
> Thank you again. Oh! I DO know that Disston saws are top of the line.


OK, here is a little "cheat sheet" to give you an idea of the types of western saws. This is ripped from the Lie-Nielsen saws web page (Lie-Nielsen Toolworks USA | Saws). But you can get a good idea about shapes and a little about relative sizes.









You can see how they get bigger from dovetail to carcass to tenon. Then the bottom two show you an example of a straight handled dovetail saw (small versions of these are often called "gents" saws) and a panel saw. The scale of the pictures isn't quite consistent as you move top to bottom but you get the idea.

See how a tenon saw is generally longer and deeper to the rib than a dovetail or carcass saw? See how a panel saw does not (well, 99% of the time anyway) have a rib?

Just for giggles, go ahead and browse the LN catalog pages. They are not the be-all-end-all for saws. You can also Google around and find Bad Axe Saws, Gramercy, PAX, Wentzloff (spelling?) and Sons, etc.

It sounds like you might already have a decent enough cross-cut panel saw (tool-box size). Maybe just getting a full length cross-cut panel saw will get you where you need to be. But I would also suggest you look into making a saw bench. 
Popular Woodworking - Traditional Sawbench
Chris Schwarz's article has a design that is a little over the top if you just want one to hack away with. But you can get the idea. Also, here is a nifty link to a preview of a video he did on handsawing:
The Woodworking Channel Video Library
Find the preview under the Lie-Nielsen tab titled "Handsawing Techniques". I know I'm starting to sound like a LN commercial here but that isn't my purpose. I believe you can also rent the whole video from SmartFlix.com.


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Great helpful information*



rwyoung said:


> OK, here is a little "cheat sheet" to give you an idea of the types of western saws. This is ripped from the Lie-Nielsen saws web page (Lie-Nielsen Toolworks USA | Saws). But you can get a good idea about shapes and a little about relative sizes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you VERY VERY much for this useful post. It helps me a lot and I now KNOW what to look for. Looks like I'll be doing some ordering in next week or so.
Really appreciate the help.::big_boss:


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I picked up a double-edge Japanese pull saw from HF the other day, and I have to say I'm impressed, especially at the price.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> I picked up a double-edge Japanese pull saw from HF the other day, and I have to say I'm impressed, especially at the price.


Those little buggers get some pretty good reviews. One of the HF gems I suppose.

I've tried both pull- and push-stroke cutting saws and for whatever reason, a push-stroke saw seems to work better for me. This isn't to say I won't try different pull-stroke saws given the opportunity!


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

I've Disston panel saws, although they don't get a lot of use these days, as well as Stanley tenon saws that belonged to my father and a nice Spear & Jackson brass backed dovetail saw. The hand saw that gets most use though is one of these, which I find handy for good quick straight crosscuts.

Hmm, I can't put the photo here. It's a knock off of a Nobu one. See the hand mitre saw on here Miter saw - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## sawdust from ny (May 4, 2010)

Check out bowsaws. I use a few in different sizes. Ican make almost any cut, even rips, in less time than it takes to set up the cut with a circular saw or table saw. You might have to make your own but it is worth it and you'll have a saw you can be proud of. Good luck and work safe.
Ed


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## brendankiely (May 1, 2012)

A great hand saw at good value is the Stanley Fat Max.

More info: best-gear.org/stanley-20-045-15-inch-fat-max-hand-saw/


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

When old threads like this are brought back to life information often has changed. An inexpensive hand saw for quick cuts is the Stanley shortcut toolbox saw. I have used these for many years; they are quick cutting and leave a clean edge.


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## Doctor Atomo (Feb 23, 2012)

Amazon.com: Tajima Japan Pull JPR-265DIS 16 TPI Fine-Cut Blade, Pistol Grip Handle: Home Improvement

$22 and you can get a replacement blade for around $16.

I use a very similar, Nakaya m270 270mm 16tpi saw for 90% of my hand sawing. Not available in the U.S. anymore, but the Tajima looks like a good replacement.

My Makita 18v LXT cordless circular saw is pretty easy on the wrist though and they just came out with a compact 3.5" 12v lithium saw that is even smaller!

Amazon.com: Makita SH01W 12V max Lithium-Ion Cordless 3-3/8-Inch Circular Saw Kit: Home Improvement


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## TimmerwerkTV (May 9, 2012)

festool


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