# Dust control



## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I am looking at two units they are:

Shop Fox W1666 2 HP 1550 CFM Dust Collector at 325.00; 220V


JDS Company 14040 Dust-Force 1-1/2-Horsepower 1,250 CFM Vertical Bag Dust Collector. 375.00 110/220V

If someone knows anything about these two I would sure like to learn. I am ignorant when it comes to this subject. The price is right in the area I have been looking for. No shipping on either and maybe not tax either. Getting this and enough hose to connect to the planner and jointer would get me going.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Jerry,
Always go for the one with the highest CFM. That's what it takes to pick up the dust efficiently. Also you need an upper bag or preferably drum that is rated at least .5 mil. Anything more than that and all it does is pick up the chips and pass the smaller (more lethal) dust back into the air.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Jerry,

George is right, except he meant to say 0.5 micron. 

If you want to learn a lot about how to make you shop safe from the fine (dangerous) dust, visit Bill Penz's web site at 

Bill's Cyclone Dust Collection Research - Home Page

He has some good information on how to make a system efficient at picking up fines, even if the manufacturer doesn't offer such fine filtration. 

Take some time and read through what he has to say and then make your own decision. It was a real eye-opener for me.

I'm tired of blowing sawdust out of my nose, much less the ultra-fines that make it past there and into the lungs.

"Homey's not goin' there no more!" :stop:


Jim


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Jerry, if you have the opportunity and can put whatever unit you buy outside, it would #1, cut way down on the noise factor and #2 allow whatever fines escape the "bags" to blow away outside.

Thats 2 cents worth.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Jerry,

If you don't mind my suggesting this one: G0548 2 HP Canister Dust Collector

I realize, just like everyone else, money is an issue. But, you can't beat the canister style. The higher the CFM's the better.

BTW, several yrs ago, I purchased a DC from HF. Not much different than the one's you're looking at now. I will say this, mine is quiet. It does have the top an lower bags which IMHO, are it's drawbacks.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Hey Jerry,

Hamlin is correct; put it outside and many of the dust issues go away. One caveat is if you condition your shop air, whether heating it as I do in Alaska or cooling it down south, there's no way the heating or cooling system can keep up with that much air flow.

Also plan on having some windows or a door open to outside to allow make-up air. A 16"x30" window will have air moving nearly 4 mph through it to replace 1200 CFM. Ideally that window is far from the DC. 

As it indicates on Bill's web site, you will want canister filters whether you go with a "bag type" or "cyclone-type" dust collector. Bill's web site includes how you to use aftermarket parts to convert to a cannister, if necessary.

Jim


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi guys, im just asking this for my curiosity and benefit.
i noticed Jerry bought an air filtration unit first and installed it. at that time i thought and may have been wrong, but you need the dust collector first, then if you want the air filtration? am i wrong?

as a realist, my shop is plain and simple and i dont have sheetrock or painted walls have to keep pristeen nor do i want them. i love having a shop i dont have to fuss over and is not part of the house that has to be kept spotless. but i do want to get as much dust caught as i can. 

this isnt intended to belittle anyone or their shop, just to help me in my little shop.


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Hey Levon,

True the DC will help keep your shop clean, however the greatest benefit is to keep the junk out of your lungs. An air filter will help do that. So will an respirator.

No charge for opinions.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Tom, i already knew that. in your opinion, which should be added to my shop first, thats what im asking ? does any one have an opinion? what hp? im asking for help to decide what to do. Maybe there is someone that knows which i should add first. i cant afford it all at once.

i just thought i needed to start with the machine that would do the most good the quickest. if my power tools are leaving lots of dust everywhere, it seems the air filtration is pretty much useles at this stage?

its very evident the air filtration system isnt doing all Jerry wants, he is looking at a dust collector.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi levon,

IMHO, the DC should be first. This will hook up to any or all of your tools. It will help keep the amount of dust down. The amount will vary pending of what type of DC you're using, bag or canister type. An air filtration unit won't do much good if you can't control the dust at the tools/machines.

As for hp, a good ol' fashioned shop-vac works just as good. My DC unit is around the 1 1/2hp - 2hp range. I picked it up from HF. Does a decent job, quiet but, it's the bag style.

The air filtration unit, as explained above, is only to clean the air inside the shop. It's not a dust collector. Think of it as a respirator but, on a larger scale. It cleans the air you breathe.

Just my thoughts.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Ken,

and a big thank you for your help. that is along the line i was thinking.

one question, ive seen the bag type dc's, but not sure about the cannister type? could you or someone show a cannister type?

p.s. when i do get a dc, im leaning towards what you have. i for one have to watch how much i spend. 

your help is greatly appreciated!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi levon,

Here are just a few from Grizzly. They can be a bit pricey but, well worth it in the end. 

G0583 1 HP Canister Dust Collector

G0548 2 HP Canister Dust Collector

G0562 3 HP Double Canister Dust Collector


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

levon said:


> hi Tom, i already knew that. in your opinion, which should be added to my shop first, thats what im asking ? does any one have an opinion? what hp? im asking for help to decide what to do. Maybe there is someone that knows which i should add first. i cant afford it all at once.
> 
> i just thought i needed to start with the machine that would do the most good the quickest. if my power tools are leaving lots of dust everywhere, it seems the air filtration is pretty much useles at this stage?
> 
> its very evident the air filtration system isnt doing all Jerry wants, he is looking at a dust collector.


Actually Levon it is doing just what I wanted it to do, it takes care of the dust. The reason for the JDS or Shop Fox is to take care of the chips and heavier material that the jointer and planer kick out. I am using a shop-vac for that purpose now but it was not designed for that the filter quickly clogs and it begins to get a little hotter than I would like. 

I, unlike most woodworkers like a very clean and tidy shop--yes I am sick and I am afraid it is terminal. I clean the shop at the end of most days and dust The way I do that is kick the Jet on high and take the air-hose and blow the dust into the air, the Jet takes care of the rest or should I say dust. A couple times around the shop and it's pretty clean. As for the floor, put the jet on high and blow all the stuff to one corner and pick it up with the shop-vac. I am amazed at how well the Jet1000B gets rid of the fine dust. It filters the air in the room about 8 times per hour. In my shop it less the 10 min for the air to be filtered down to 1 micron. 

I think I am leaning toward the Shop Fox for the CFM and the 220 V motor. The canister issue well yes I would like to go the way, but for now it is later. I see where Highland Hardware sells a new bag that is good down to .1 micron it is a Shaker Felt bag, whatever!!

Putting it outside, I plan to put it in the down garage and get everything in there dusty. The garage is on the end of the shop where the compound miter saw is.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi levon,
> 
> Here are just a few from Grizzly. They can be a bit pricey but, well worth it in the end.
> 
> ...



thanks Ken,

that 2 hp looks great, a bit pricey, but look like it is a super machine.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Levon, I take dust collection seriously but from a common sense point of view. Your dust collector needs to remove the junk from the machines. It is a real bonus if it removes the tiny particles you can't see. Canister type filters look like old fashioned car air filters on steroids, very big and tall. These will use a plastic bag to capture the dust. Now here is the important thing: there is a handle which moves around inside the canister to ruffle the pleats of the filter which knocks a lot of the dust free to fall into the bag. This simple cleaning prolongs your usage between dismounting the filter, taking it outside and blowing the fine dust out with an air hose. (While wearing a dust mask of course!) So much for the big stuff. The little stuff can be cleaned out of the air many ways. Sears sells HEPA filters for their shop vacuums. Many companies make ceiling mounted units with higher flow rates but these are costly. I use a large Honeywell HEPA filter designed for home and office use. You can find these at garage sales cheap, I paid $20 for mine. These have a high flow rate, 360º pick up and top mounted exhaust. Since they have a charcoal filter included they also remove any foul odors last nights supper might of generated...


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

I look at it this way: 

I size my DC to capture not only the chips and sawdust, but also as many of the fines as possible. 

I run my air filter while I'm in there to help with the ultra-fines that escape and remain suspended in the air. I leave it to run for a while after I leave (it has a timer) to continue to capture them before they eventually settle and are stirred up when I re-enter the shop.

I use a mask whenever I am working with a wood that creates a lot of fines (such as MDF), performing an operation where I know the DC isn't likely to get as many fines as I'd like and when I'm otherwise creating lots of fines (such as when random-orbital sanding, especially with a fine grit).

If I was going to choose a sequence of acquisition, I'd buy the mask first as (if you'll always wear it) it will protect your lungs.

Then I'd get the DC, to try to capture them at the source.

Finally I'd buy the filter, to clean up after me. 

Just one man's opinion..

Jim


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

xplorx4 said:


> I am looking at two units they are:
> 
> Shop Fox W1666 2 HP 1550 CFM Dust Collector at 325.00; 220V
> 
> ...


Really depends on how many machines you want to be attached going at the same time.

Most report I have read seem to indicate that 650/700 cfm would be enough for a thickness planner or table saw.

James


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

The rating of the CFM's also depends on how far away you're going to carry the dust and chips. There are many variables in play when choosing a DC. The best of the best IMHO, is the cyclone DC units. Now, these are pricey.

I'm not understanding the running of multiple machines, since I'm only 1 person, I run only 1 machine at a time. 

I can't add much more to what Mike, he's right on about the HEPA filters. If you check into household vacuum cleaners, these have become an standard item for them as well.

Again, just my thoughts.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

ok, another question, 

jerry is going to put his in a garage that is separate from his shop and that will cut down on noise and i presume he could open the garage door to allow it plenty of air.

but if you put it outside, wouldnt it need a roof over it. i dont know much about them, but im pretty sure you wouldnt wall it in. i guess it could be camoflaged with some lattice??

im just not knowledgeable about them.

p.s. Jim, how did you size yours?


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Yes, if outside, the DC needs to be protected from the elements. I outsmarted myself when building my shop by attaching a lean-to for my tractor. Never thought about a DC at that time, just worked out great for me. It rains a lot here, but doesn't blow very far into the lean-to. 

I think the other guys have the sequence correct. First is the DC (after some kind of mask or respirator), then the air filtration.

I've found that the DC picks up a lot of dust and also the larger chips. The airborne, nasty stuff still needs to be eliminated as much as possible.

As a side benefit, I have the 2 stage setup thats separates the chips from the fines, and allows me to selectively use those chips for smoking fish and meats.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Tom,

i may be wrong but it sounds like you have the cyclone separator? am i correct?


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi levon,

You can use one of these between your DC/shop-vac and machine. Dust Collection Separator - Rockler Woodworking Tools


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

levon,

To be honest, I *stumbled* onto the right answer. I found a Jet DC1100A on craigslist for $175 with a cannister filter, knew it was a great price (shipping to Alaaska alone would cost that) and bought it. I then went to Bill Pentz's web site and learned his experiments have shown what it takes to capture the fines. He said the Jet 1100A was the smallest unit he found that would meet his dust criteria. That said (you really need to read his web site) its more complex than just CFM since that CFM is the maximum you can get, and some manufacturers rate theirs without an inlet hose or dust bag. 

A DC's performance actually works along what is called a "fan curve". With absolutely no restrictions it blows lots of air and with lots of restrictions it blows very little. Restrictions in air ducting are commonly measured in "inches of Water column" (12" of water column = 0.433 psi). 

DC's are high volume - low pressure units whose throughput drops dramatically as the pressure drop in the suction line and the bag goes from about zilch to the 8-14" range (often dropping to 30% or so of rated capacity). Compare this with a shop-vac which flows much less air but can draw 60-100" of water column.

With dust collectors, keeping pressure drops is paramount. That is why I plan on using my 1100 CFM unit (6" hose) as a roll-around, attaching it with a short hose to one tool at a time. If I wanted clean air and a central system, I'd need to spend more $$$ and either get one with morecapacity or one whose volume doesn't drop as much with pressure drop in the line. We're back to that fan curve thing again.

FWIW, Bill indicates the fan curve on the DC 1100A is better than most. 

Also, this is the reason I've inquired about universal dust shrouds that will take a 6" hose. The more air I can draw around where the dust is made, the less there is to deal with elsewhere.

Also FWIW, the DC came with a 2 micron filter which is pretty good but I plan to upgrade it with a conversion kit from Wynn Environmental Cartridge Filters. They have conversion kits that will work with many DC's, including one designed for HF units.

Also, know the "dust" you see suspended in the air when the sunlight shines through your shop? Those are fines. In the household they are generally non-toxic but when they are wood fibers which are not only rough but also expand when they absorb moisture in your lungs, its not a good thing.

<Getting down off of my soapbox, looking down, kicking the ground and doing my best Gomer Pyle imitation> "Shucks, twern't nothin'!" 

Jim


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Levon, 

Ken's info is exactly what I have. I don't know, nor have I investigated all the options, if this is the way for everyone to go, but it works good for me. I have the Jet 1100 with the bags. My DC is about 8 years old with no problems. I use it only one machine at a time since that is all I ever use (not a great multi-tasker).

Hope this helps, you have gotten some good info from all these guys. Go do the best you can!


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Jim you mentioned fan curves, what most people do not understand is that a fan will blow differently than it will suck, Static pressures are critical in a fan that will suck i.e. exhaust fans as in a laboratory fume hood. I used to typically check out a "hood's" fan requirements; I had fan charts and lots of items needed to work up a fan. For example every curve, elbow, or any obstruction in the line reduces the performance of the fan and its ability to operate properly. I have forgotten so much of that stuff it is the old "use it or lose it thing". I have seen fans not properly sized not suck at all. Any time we had "hoods" in the project we had to check duct work and obstructions in the duct otherwise we had problems with that hood and in some small ways that is what we are doing when we use a DC system.

Well I have a couple more DC systems as options so need to take time to study them more closely and how I will run the line, what size and all. Jim I will check in on Bill's site thanks for the information.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Jim, thanks for all the info. it will take me a little time to digest it. 
wish i could find a deal like you did. i look at craigslist a lot.

i plan on using only 1 machine at a time, but would prefer to run a trunk line on one wall then t off it a few times.

thanks to you Tom, i will give it my best attempt but fist have to scare up a few bucks,


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

This is always a well discussed subject. Even brings things almost to blows at times.
It's always possible to get rid of separators, filters and bags, and duct the whole system outside into a collection box.


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## 3efingers (Dec 21, 2006)

I built a "closet" on the outside of my shop and put the DC there, it was a BIG BIG improvement.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Tom,

That works great where / when the outside air is the temperature you want to work in, since all that air must be "made up" with outside air coming in around windows and through doors. In Anchorage it'd be great in the summer (10pm now, sunny and 72F) but in the winters it'd be like working outside. Hold the icicles, please! 

Your mileage may vary.. 

Jim


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## 3efingers (Dec 21, 2006)

BigJim

Thank goodness that the winters here in Texas are short, gets cold for a week or two and then warms up enough to go to the shop with no heat, summers are at times a bit harsh, today is the 15th day of 100+ temps. How much snow do you get a year? Every 3-4 years we have snow and ice but it dont last!


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Jim,

You are absolutly right, the DC does tend to suck all the heated air out and replenish the shop with nice cold air in the winter. I just turn up the heat for a bit and everything is OK. We even get down to freezing sometimes here in sub-tropical Buckley, WA.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Tom,

How much snow falls, or how much is on the ground at any one time? They are very different. 

The official snowfall is about 70" per winter on the west (ocean) side of town , up to about 90" on the eastern (mountain) side of town, for lower elevations.

In terms of how much is on the ground at a time, lawns generall run between 12" and 18", occasionally to 2'. Some of the rest melts but most of it sublimes.

A typical winter day is low of 10-15F, high around 25F. Its often milder here than many parts in the northern "lower 48". 

Jim


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> Tom,
> 
> 
> A typical winter day is low of 10-15F, high around 25F. Its often milder here than many parts in the northern "lower 48".
> ...


I'm sure it is. Our daughter and her family live on the eastern side of the Cascades and they freeze from mid-November til' the end of March.

We have "eastern" friends that freeze here in the middle of summer. Usually anywhere from the hi 60's to the hi 70's, except for today when it's boiling (for us) in the mid-80's. Must be global warmijng at last!:dirol:


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## patrick_g (Jul 23, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> Jerry,
> Always go for the one with the highest CFM. That's what it takes to pick up the dust efficiently. Also you need an upper bag or preferably drum that is rated at least .5 mil. Anything more than that and all it does is pick up the chips and pass the smaller (more lethal) dust back into the air.


Make that 0.5 microns (millionths of an inch) rather than 0.5 mil (which is thousandths) and your lungs will thank you.

Most filters of interest in this application will be rated in microns.

Pat


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## AaronRC4 (Feb 27, 2012)

CFM numbers are suspect. The dealers know you probably have no way to check their numbers and most know bigger is better so marketing bumps the numbers. Just like the HP numbers you get on shop vacs. A much better way is the diameter of the impeller. Hard to cheat here because you can easily measure the diameter.The won't tell you the blade area however but that doesn't have the effect the diameter has. 1/2" makes a HUGE difference in air flow CFM.

Cloth bags are ng. Again you get bogus filter numbers. There just isn't enough filter area to trap much dust . Canister filters are the way to go for both cyclones and plain blowers. Important numbers are filter area ,bigger is better, and micron size capture. SP drop is good to have but hard to get.

The trouble with canisters on non cyclone systems is the dust ends up inside the filter instead of the barrel. Jet just came out with a patented system which helps to eliminate this. They simply placed a small disk under the top canister that kinda acts as a cyclone. Check their site or You Tube to see how it works. Very easy to copy but I'm not recommending this. 

3 HP or bigger cyclones are the way to go but expensive.


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## patrick_g (Jul 23, 2010)

The smaller the dust is the less likely your lungs will get rid of it. The real fine dust just accumulates over your life. It you accumulate too much... Well, you get the idea.

Put your lung health into the equation when deciding how much you can or should spend on dust collection. Over doing the dust inhalation is an insidious thing. You may not notice any symptoms until it is too late. The really fine dust we breathe stays with us forever. You may never notice any symptoms, just die earlier than otherwise as lungs are an important organ.

Dust collection that removes chips and sawdust is convenient but not protecting your health. You need to be concerned with fines. Sometimes it is more cost effective to have mediocre DC and wear an "air mask."

Be safe. Have fun and enjoy yourself for a long long time.


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