# Incra Offset Table Top or Woodpecker Offset Table Top



## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> In my search for a router table, I had been really interested in solid phenolic tops because of the stability of the material. Then I found the Incra LS system and realized that I would need to get an offset router table top or build one. I cannot find anyone that manufactures a solid phenolic offset top.
> 
> I'm interested in the Incra 27"x43" offset top or the Woodpecker 32"x53" offset top. Both these are MDF cores with phenolic laminated to both top and bottom. I have wondered how well tops like these hold up to dampness, such as shops located in basements. Do tables of this sort hold up or how common are de-lamination issues?


My Woodpeckers top has been just fine for 18 years. I has occasionally been in damp enough conditions to rust cast iron tables tops. I personally have neve seen one delaminate. I think the bigger issue is having enough support under to prevent sagging, especially if you are mounting a large 3+HP router under it.


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Have you thought about a de-humidifier? Just mentioning that because if you have enough moister to possibly do damage to that top there are probably other tools suffering. sometimes just keeping a fan running and air moving can be helpful. I know it doesn't answer the question.

I have the incra table, but I live in the high desert


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Here i go, changing the subject again, but why is your basement damp? 
Unless that was just an offhand example?
Damp leads to mould and we now know how serious a health issue mould is.
Anyway that didn't help with your question...


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Didn't know there were solid phenolic tables available. I thought phenolic was just the special surfacing applied to some substrate.

In any case you could just make up your own table using phenolic covered plywood if you are concerned about the MDF substrate.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I have a Woodpeckers table top that is also 18 years and it is in good condition. No problems with delamination. An MDF or MDO core is stable and not likely to be affected by moisture in the air unless you soak the material. Solid phenolic is available, you just have to search for a source. I found a company in Greenville SC that sold any color, thickness and etc you would want by looking on the internet. Sorry but I don't remember their name. I can tell you that the Woodpeckers table will be a heck of a lot cheaper. Most companies don't like to sell small quantities of the material unless they have some scrap pieces available.


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

I also have the Woodpeckers table for more than a decade. No problems at all.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Dmeadows said:


> My Woodpeckers top has been just fine for 18 years. I has occasionally been in damp enough conditions to rust cast iron tables tops. I personally have neve seen one delaminate. I think the bigger issue is having enough support under to prevent sagging, especially if you are mounting a large 3+HP router under it.


Dmeadows - thanks for your input. Just looking to get perspective and your 18 years gave plenty. I am planning to install the 3 1/4 horse Porter Cable, so I'll be sure to get some support under it. I've heard this from several sources.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Shortslvs said:


> Have you thought about a de-humidifier? Just mentioning that because if you have enough moister to possibly do damage to that top there are probably other tools suffering. sometimes just keeping a fan running and air moving can be helpful. I know it doesn't answer the question.
> 
> I have the incra table, but I live in the high desert


I have a dehumidifier and run it when needed, which really is not that often. I had heard about delamination issues here and there. I then resolved to get a solid phenolic top but when I settled in an Incra LS, that changed my plans a little.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Here i go, changing the subject again, but why is your basement damp?
> Unless that was just an offhand example?
> Damp leads to mould and we now know how serious a health issue mould is.
> Anyway that didn't help with your question...


No mold here but thanks for thinking of my health.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

cagenuts said:


> Didn't know there were solid phenolic tables available. I thought phenolic was just the special surfacing applied to some substrate.
> 
> In any case you could just make up your own table using phenolic covered plywood if you are concerned about the MDF substrate.


I thought about making a top but would really be more interested in doing the work on it if I were making a solid phenolic top.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Garyk said:


> I have a Woodpeckers table top that is also 18 years and it is in good condition. No problems with delamination. An MDF or MDO core is stable and not likely to be affected by moisture in the air unless you soak the material. Solid phenolic is available, you just have to search for a source. I found a company in Greenville SC that sold any color, thickness and etc you would want by looking on the internet. Sorry but I don't remember their name. I can tell you that the Woodpeckers table will be a heck of a lot cheaper. Most companies don't like to sell small quantities of the material unless they have some scrap pieces available.


I might just go ahead and search for a phenolic materials source. Thanks for clarifying how reliable your Woodpeckers table has been for you. Just what I was looking to know.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Big Steve said:


> I also have the Woodpeckers table for more than a decade. No problems at all.


Thanks for sharing. A decade is long enough to prove a point. Awesome, Steve!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

There is at least one made from solid phenolic that I am aware of.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

jw2170 said:


> There is at least one made from solid phenolic that I am aware of.


Well, James. That's neat, though I bet freight on that top would be a bit much from Australia to Wisconsin, USA. Thanks for sharing.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Also in USA:

JessEm 03004 Mast-R-Top Phenolic Router Table Top for Rout-R-Lift - Amazon.com

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2081354/30461/woodpeckers-27-x-43-phenolic-router-table-top.aspx


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> I might just go ahead and search for a phenolic materials source. Thanks for clarifying how reliable your Woodpeckers table has been for you. Just what I was looking to know.


Hmm, may be cheaper to solve the moisture problem. I'm seeing prices from $350-850.00 for 48"x48"x3/4" phenolic depending on grade. Unless you can find a bargain on a scrap piece, think I'd take a chance on an MDF based table top, if you make your own, you can just about buy a dehumidifier and still come out ahead! If you have too much moisture for a dehumidifier to handle, I think I would reconsider putting a shop in that location. IMHO.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Dmeadows said:


> Hmm, may be cheaper to solve the moisture problem. I'm seeing prices from $350-850.00 for 48"x48"x3/4" phenolic depending on grade. Unless you can find a bargain on a scrap piece, think I'd take a chance on an MDF based table top, if you make your own, you can just about buy a dehumidifier and still come out ahead! If you have too much moisture for a dehumidifier to handle, I think I would reconsider putting a shop in that location. IMHO.


I believe I've made a terrible mistake bringing up a little bit of basement dampness. It's really no more than any other basement. My real concern is not really knowing how well these laminated tops hold up. I've gotten a lot of encouraging responses. Heck, my cast iron table saw doesn't even rust.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

jw2170 said:


> Also in USA:
> 
> JessEm 03004 Mast-R-Top Phenolic Router Table Top for Rout-R-Lift - Amazon.com
> 
> Buy Woodpeckers 27 x 43 Phenolic Router Table Top at Woodcraft


Now, James, these would be great if I could get them in the offset configuration such as something like this

http://incra.com/images/rtable_rt2743_main_zoom.jpg


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> I have a dehumidifier and run it when needed, which really is not that often. I had heard about delamination issues here and there. I then resolved to get a solid phenolic top but when I settled in an Incra LS, that changed my plans a little.


A dehumidifier wont help much when the tools are stored in a metal shed and you work area is outdoors (in a yard that is basically a yard wide). I clean my bits with WD-40 and a toothbrush before storing them in their original case. The cases are kept in a router tool box. My other tools I try to keep waxed and buffed. That usually resolves my rust issues. Beyond that Im at the mercy of the weather. In the summer there is a heat issue and winter near freezing inside. My current router table is a metal Craftsman; again the wax helps the wood slide and protects the metal. 

Im the likely candidate for the delaminating problem. I need a larger table. So I too am thinking of double laminate, buying the table here in Japan is cost prohibitive. I haven’t settled on the substrate but likely go with 22mm plywood. Im also concerned about the glue delaminating after a few years. Maybe someone has an idea for the glue.

As a side note, to my wife’s consternation, all my gluing projects are basically done in the house when outside temps are too low. Even in the summer when temps are ok I store the glue up in the house. It costs a few pounds of chocolate.:fie:


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> ... Heck, my cast iron table saw doesn't even rust.


Then you will be fine with laminated MDF!


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Actually, compared to the price of a comparable MDF top shipped--that Jessem with free shipping isn't too far off. Way far from building a top, for sure, but not bad for phenolic. My problem is that all my current inserts are Rockler/Bench Dog sized--and i'm more in the mood to get back to real projects. If it just would warm up enough to glue (or even warm enough to cut!!)

Gareth--if you can find 3/4" phenolic at a reasonable price, i might like to know. I shouldn't like to know, but we're almost solvent again--why not?? 

earl


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Daikusan said:


> A dehumidifier wont help much when the tools are stored in a metal shed and you work area is outdoors (in a yard that is basically a yard wide). I clean my bits with WD-40 and a toothbrush before storing them in their original case. The cases are kept in a router tool box. My other tools I try to keep waxed and buffed. That usually resolves my rust issues. Beyond that Im at the mercy of the weather. In the summer there is a heat issue and winter near freezing inside. My current router table is a metal Craftsman; again the wax helps the wood slide and protects the metal.
> 
> Im the likely candidate for the delaminating problem. I need a larger table. So I too am thinking of double laminate, buying the table here in Japan is cost prohibitive. I haven’t settled on the substrate but likely go with 22mm plywood. Im also concerned about the glue delaminating after a few years. Maybe someone has an idea for the glue.
> 
> As a side note, to my wife’s consternation, all my gluing projects are basically done in the house when outside temps are too low. Even in the summer when temps are ok I store the glue up in the house. It costs a few pounds of chocolate.:fie:


Wow! You're a persistent fella!


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

greenacres2 said:


> Actually, compared to the price of a comparable MDF top shipped--that Jessem with free shipping isn't too far off. Way far from building a top, for sure, but not bad for phenolic. My problem is that all my current inserts are Rockler/Bench Dog sized--and i'm more in the mood to get back to real projects. If it just would warm up enough to glue (or even warm enough to cut!!)
> 
> Gareth--if you can find 3/4" phenolic at a reasonable price, i might like to know. I shouldn't like to know, but we're almost solvent again--why not??
> 
> earl


Well, Earl, I'll keep you in mind when I find some.


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## andrzejls (May 20, 2011)

cagenuts said:


> Didn't know there were solid phenolic tables available. I thought phenolic was just the special surfacing applied to some substrate.
> 
> In any case you could just make up your own table using phenolic covered plywood if you are concerned about the MDF substrate.


Phenolic is actually a type of plastic: thermoset. It means that it can be process only once as opposed to thermoplastics that can be reprocess multiple times.


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## andrzejls (May 20, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Also in USA:
> 
> JessEm 03004 Mast-R-Top Phenolic Router Table Top for Rout-R-Lift - Amazon.com
> 
> Buy Woodpeckers 27 x 43 Phenolic Router Table Top at Woodcraft


I would not recommend JessEm. I bought their router lift with phenolic plate. It was warped by 1.5mm (.062in) from right to left. I spoke with JessEm couple of times regarding this problem and the final answer I got was "you got what you payed for". So needless to say I will not buy their products, instead I bought INCRA MAST-R-Lift II with aluminum plate. Could not be happier. BTW, JessEm router lift I had was Rout-R-Lift II.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

andrzejls said:


> I would not recommend JessEm. I bought their router lift with phenolic plate. It was warped by 1.5mm (.062in) from right to left. I spoke with JessEm couple of times regarding this problem and the final answer I got was "you got what you payed for". So needless to say I will not buy their products, instead I bought INCRA MAST-R-Lift II with aluminum plate. Could not be happier. BTW, JessEm router lift I had was Rout-R-Lift II.


I hate to break the news, but i believe the Incra Mast-R-Lift II is made by Jessem for Incra, biggest difference is the center ring system. 

earl


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gareth... 

A while back I had an offset table Custom made for me by Woodpeckers. It has held up beautifully. Absolutely no complaints. 

While they no longer offer custom made tables to the public, you might think about giving them a call. While having mine made, I was in constant communications with them and they were nothing but helpful and patient. At the very least they might be able to point you in the right direction. ...

Bill


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Gareth...
> 
> A while back I had an offset table Custom made for me by Woodpeckers. It has held up beautifully. Absolutely no complaints.
> 
> ...


Bill,

I emailed Woodpeckers about whether it would be possible to get an offset router table from them in phenolic. Mike J. was very quick in his reply pointed out they do not make a phenolic table as large as their offset router tables and no longer do custom orders because they no longer have the machine time anymore to do those things.

I considered the Woodpeckers 32"x53" offset router table but when comparing that to their 27"x43" offset table, I noticed that the description of the 53" table says the core is 1" MDF, while the 43" table is 2 layers of 5/8" MDF. Essentially the bigger table is 1/4" thinner than the smaller table from website description. I would think the larger table would benefit from being as thick or thicker than the smaller table.

Thanks for your tip.
Gareth


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Let me plug incra one more time. I have the offset table (actually I bought the whole package minus the lift since I have a Triton), and I am very happy with the quality. I did have one minor issue and their customer service which is Neil who I think runs the place along with Mark took care of it with a phone call. They communicate quickly by email and answer the phone - and fix the problem.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Shortslvs said:


> Let me plug incra one more time. I have the offset table (actually I bought the whole package minus the lift since I have a Triton), and I am very happy with the quality. I did have one minor issue and their customer service which is Neil who I think runs the place along with Mark took care of it with a phone call. They communicate quickly by email and answer the phone - and fix the problem.



Shortslvs - when you say you bought the whole package, did you also get the Incra cart with the extruded aluminum corners that have 1/2" slots to accept 1/2" plywood to create a cabinet? If so, how do you like the cart? Sturdy?


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## Gordon L. Johnson (Nov 17, 2010)

*Incra Table*

I just bought the complete Incra LS 17 system with the 27x43 table and the stand.
I also got the Incra Master Lift II for my PC 7518. 
Couldn't be happier. 
The stand is very substantial, especially when I slipped in some 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood on 3 sides and made an oak face frame for the front to fit the drawers and router box.
The table is of excellent quality and the Master Lift fit it perfectly.
The Incra Fence is just way cool..........Never again with the tap,measure,tap method.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

Gordon L. Johnson said:


> I just bought the complete Incra LS 17 system with the 27x43 table and the stand.
> I also got the Incra Master Lift II for my PC 7518.
> Couldn't be happier.
> The stand is very substantial, especially when I slipped in some 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood on 3 sides and made an oak face frame for the front to fit the drawers and router box.
> ...


Thanks for the explanation Gordon. I'm looking at this seriously. Do you think the 27x43 table is big enough?


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## Gordon L. Johnson (Nov 17, 2010)

The table size is just right, I seldom use a router table for dado-ing bookcase shelves and for everything I've used the table for so far, I haven't had the fence further than 12 or 13 inches from the bit. Plenty of capacity and the ultimate in accuracy. Its now a pleasure to use and i also love the lift. I've been many, many years without one, and I would never go back. Good luck with whatever you decide, but I'm very glad I picked the products that I did.


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes I did. I didn't get the wheels though. I had part of a mobile stand laying around I needed to put to work so I cobbled something together out of that.

Stand is pretty solid. It's kind of like what happens to metal studs once you screw panels to it - it tightens right up.


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> Shortslvs - when you say you bought the whole package, did you also get the Incra cart with the extruded aluminum corners that have 1/2" slots to accept 1/2" plywood to create a cabinet? If so, how do you like the cart? Sturdy?


Sorry it is early here and I didn't reply with quotes.

I got the stand - plenty sturdy.

I didn't get the wheels because I had some laying around I needed to put to use.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Gordon L. Johnson said:


> I just bought the complete Incra LS 17 system with the 27x43 table and the stand.
> 
> The stand is very substantial, especially when I slipped in some 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood on 3 sides and made an oak face frame for the front to fit the drawers and router box.


If you get the chance, a picture of your setup would be appreciated.


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## Gordon L. Johnson (Nov 17, 2010)

*Table pic*



Daikusan said:


> If you get the chance, a picture of your setup would be appreciated.


Steve,
Here is a poor picture of the table before it was complete. I hadn't yet installed the drawer handles or the outside switch. The vent in front of the router box is just an oak floor register which has adjustable intake louvers on the backside. I hadn't even cut the dust collection hole in the back at this point.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Good idea with the floor register, Gordon.

Thinking outside the box......


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## Gordon L. Johnson (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks James,
The floor register has adjustable louvers so I can throttle the intake up or down until i get it just right, and the flow is directed downward to the bottom of the router box to pick up more material. The whole front is just held on with magnets so it's easy to remove to change speeds on my PC7518..So far ....so good


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Never heard of a floor register but I like the idea of the louvres.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> Never heard of a floor register.


Used to diffuse air flow where ductwork terminates and enters a living space using forced air HVAC systems(most times)

google link


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Gordon L. Johnson said:


> Steve,
> Here is a poor picture of the table before it was complete. I hadn't yet installed the drawer handles or the outside switch. The vent in front of the router box is just an oak floor register which has adjustable intake louvers on the backside. I hadn't even cut the dust collection hole in the back at this point.


Gordon
Thanks for the picture, appreciate you taking the time to show it on the forum. :thank_you2: Doubtless others appreciate it too. The register with the adjustable louver to control the airflow is a stroke of genius, great idea.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

TomE said:


> Used to diffuse air flow where ductwork terminates and enters a living space using forced air HVAC systems(most times)


Thanks Tom. We don't have that system here but it looks efficient nonetheless.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

cagenuts said:


> Thanks Tom. We don't have that system here but it looks efficient nonetheless.


Hilton, your local marine supplies outlet will have them (or similar) for yacht hatches.....


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