# Shaker door with trim inside



## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

Hello,

I recently bought a router for making some baseboards, kinda of fell in love with it and a whole world of potential projects opened up. It's a Bosch Pof 1200w so I can only fit 6mm, 8mm and 1/4 bits.

Unfortnately I have a very slim budget at the moment after the holidays but I want to make some shaker style closet doors with a round trim on the frame towards the panel. 

Currently using on "simple" router bits. What is good way to make a sturdy frame using simple bits? Looking for some jigg ideas.
If I can make these closet doors I am sure it will motivate my second half to invest more into routing 

Also for the panel i have some 12mm plywood lying about, what is a good way to match the groove to the plywood? My experience is that the plywood width is usually not always accurate when you buy it. Thinking maybe making the frame with 21mm or 25mm wood, depending on what you guys suggest here.

Any help for a amateur is appreciated 
Might add: English is not my native language and routing lingo is not my safezone.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mega it really is important in cases like yours to fill out your profile. Our suggestions are going to depend a lot on whether you have other tools to work with. Since you are working in metric and English is not your first language I'm guessing somewhere in continental Europe? That can matter too. Your English is very good by the way and I don't think that will cause problems. A name or nickname would be good too.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Welcome aboard.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Welcome. Your English is quite good. Your other tools is important to respond to your question. There are almost always other ways to do any particular project. I don't know what kind of saw you have, but nothing will work unless you have the saw blade a perfect 90 degree cut. You could use a chop saw (cheapest way) but you must make certain the blade is 90 degrees to the base. You can check this with a good draftsman's triangle. Most all cheap carpenter triangles are NOT square and can be off by 1-3 degrees, which will make it impossible to glue them and keep the frame square.

For starters, do you have your router in a table, or are you using it freehand. If in a table you'll be safer. A table can be made very easily from a sheet of plywood and a fence made of several strips of very straight plywood or a very straight piece of wood with vises to hold it in place. 

You will need to make your long and short door pieces with a groove on one edge, then roundover that edge. That will take a couple of bits, one a slot cutter, the other probably a 6mm (about 1/4 inch imperial) roundover bit with a bearing. Cut the roundover first on one side. Then cut the groove. You can cut the groove with a slot cutter, then widen it to fit the panel loosely by raising the router bit slightly until the plywood panel fits. Plywood is a good choice for panels since it doesn't expand or shrink very much. Finish the panel before you assemble it. 

Be extremely careful choosing your wood for the long (rails) and short (Stiles) pieces that make up the door's frame. It must be very straight and you'll need quite a bit of it. You will also want to buy at least one extra piece of the same material for test cuts and alignment purposes, and to test your finish on. Unless you are painting the door, you should try to match the color and grain as best you can.

Make all the same cuts at the same time. You will NEVER be able to get a perfect match on height settings if you reset the router height between cuts.

If I were you, I'd make a quick router table first. Lots of plans on the site for making one. Keep it very simple as noted.

You will also need some clamps wide and long enough to hold the door in place while the glue sets. And you will need to go to youtube to learn how to use a tape mesure and long clamp to make your door frame square. You can use pipe clamps, which are reasonably cheap and can be adjusted for length. Use slow setting glue!!!! Give yourself time to fiddle with the frame. Regular wood glue is solid as a rock in a couple of minutes. 

By the way, 

The joint between the rails and styles will be a tongue and groove arrangement. That means that in addition to the groove in each, you will have to have a little extra length stile (short piece) so you can use your groove cuttter to cut the tongue by removing the excess on both sides of the tongue edge. cut stiles the length you want, PLUS double the depth of the groove for the tongue. _See picture. _ 

Trial fit on short pieces when cutting the tongue. You can rough cut first, then use sand paper on a flat wood block to make the final fit. It should be snug, but NOT over-thick. 

If you use the table, cut everything with the final face *DOWN*. 

If you try this freehand, buy more extra wood and work with the final face *UP*. If doing this freehand, you want to lay your workpiece next to the extra piece so you can steady your router across both pieces. Clamp the pieces down before you start cutting the grooves and roundover freehand.

Here's a video on cutting this joint on a table. Your table will be simpler, but the method is the same. The still picture is at the bottom of this post. This got a little longer than I intended at first, but as we say, the devil is in the details.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Megamatch...One thing to remember, using the typical technique Tom described above, is the weight of the door being supported by only one of the stiles. This will make the door sag, depending on it's width.

One technique around this weight problem is to make the tenons on the rails longer and deeper into the stiles. Another plus is to add a rail somewhere in the center of the door which would then require two panels. You can place this center rail to please your own eye. But this is not likely to be done with "simple bits" and would require some chiseling to make the mortise side.

Maybe you can list the bits you have and other tools...maybe other approaches are available...you can do that in your profile...

Good luck...welcome to the forum...and don't worry about your English..wait til you see some our typing...LOL...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

In addition to the above comments keep in mind that if you do round the edge of the frame next to the panel the corners will not meet correctly. You will have two rounded edges at each corner which will look bad. The only way to do it would be to make a separate piece of 1/4" round molding and add it after the door has been built. Given the small set back from the frame and the panel I don't think that it is feasible. If I were doing it and had only limited tools I would do the following.
Cut a groove preferably using a table saw the size of the thickness of the panel. If you can get 1/4" mdf that would be the best choice as it is actually 1/4" thick. Then drill two pocket holes in each rail. If you don't have a pocket hole jig either buy one or make one, you will thank me for the rest of your life once you have used one.Then temporarily assemble the frame with one pocket hole screw in each corner and using a round over bit round over the inside edge, this will make the corners as well as the side round. Then cut 4 splines to fill in the visible grooves on the top and bottom. Then put glue in the grooves and splines insert the panel and clamp everything together. To hide the pocket holes use wood putty. This is how I built the vanity shown. I have a shaker rail and stile set but didn't want the bevel edges.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Forgot about the rounded corners. And splines are an even simpler way of joining the pieces. You only have to cut the groove. Making the corners meet will require doing what Art suggests. Or, try this, the easiest possible way to do what you want is to use some small quarter round, cut it carefully at a 45 degree angle, and fit each piece of quarter round as you go round the door, and then glue it in place. 

If you don't have a Japanese pull saw yet, do order one. It is a tool you'll probably use forever and that you'll use often. It cuts on the pull stroke and is razor sharp. (see pix) You have to eventually replace the blade, it can't be sharpened. You will need either some kind of 45 degree miter box or my favorite standby, some filler. I found the very best wood filler is called Timber Mate, an Australian product. (see pix)


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

If you use a round-over bit on a door frame, you end up with rounded corners sorta like the picture of my mirror frame. Even this could be difficult because you need enough surface for the bearing to ride on for doing the routing. If you have a slot for your panel already cut then that limits where your bearing can ride. Usually a simple round-over in a door is done with a rail and stile set. You wouldn't need the bit on the right if you're using a flat panel.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

Hey guys,

must say im impressed with all the feedback, today is my sons birtday and been meaning to dive into all this but havent been able to find time, rather then replying very late I just wanted to say, I'll make a more detailed response later.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

Okay finally manage to get some more time.

First thanks for the suggestion @Cherryville Chuck I will do so soon as I am able. I reside in sweden and we are using the metric system, here the router bits are very expensive, finished set for doors is roughly 250 euro.

@MT Stringer thanks mate!

@DesertRatTom I have a old chop saw that was a handmedown from a old friend, however the degree's on it was setup incorrectly so I always have to measure it every time, kind of annoying but I think it's given me a good habit. 
I have intended to build a router table but I figured based on the suggestions here it might change how I build it, looking at a few videos I think I'll make a few wooden featherboards for example, especially if I need to make the groove with my rail and tiles standing up. Actually intended to make a door first made from leftover wood since I change the panel on my house, just to see how it goes before I make the final doors. At the moment I have a table saw here as well, but I need return it soon.
Going to check out tape measure, never even heard of that before.

@Nickp that's a good suggestion, actually intended the frame to be about 90mm width to match the other cabinet doors, also planned have 2 rails on the middle of the door creating 3 "panel boxes"

@mgmine just checked pocket hole jigg prices, about 150euros... think I'll make one, they look kinda awesome though 

@DesertRatTom I dont have a japanese pull saw, never saw the need but it was the same with the router and all of a sudden a whole world opens up, it does look like a good way to get the corners looking good, i much prefer that over round trim in the corners because it aligns with the rest of the doors in the house.

@TenGees yes this was what I was looking at first, buying a ready set. but currently my experience is too bad to know which bits are good and the "obvious" good ones seems to cost a fortune. Is it possible to add a 1/2 shank/collet (what's the difference between the two?) to my 1200w router or would it be too weak? seems most "fun bits" are made to be used with 1/2 shank/collet.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Most full and medium size routers have 12mm collets available. You can use a 1/4 or 6mm router for light duty work, but thay don't have interchangeable collets, just the 6mm. Don't really know what your router has because the models are different here. 

If the roundover is cut on the rails and stiles, then you have to let the roundover part protrude below where the rail joins the stiles. That could be a little tricky to do and will probably requie a razor sharp chisel and a little very careful carving. Again, the wood filler will cover up any mistakes.

Using a chisel for things like this is usually done by placing the chisel and slowly rocking it side to side slightly to cut a little deeper into the wood, then shifting the chisel 90 degrees and removing the waste only as deep as the first cut goes. If you try to take too much, the roundover will split. SLOW, SLOW, SLOW. Look up how to sharpen a chisel using the Scary Sharp method (sandpaper of many grits, coarse to very fine on a very flat surface). It's sharp enough when you can easily shave a bit of hair from your arm. You will need at least a half inch (6 mm) chisel.

Don't be too quick to reject the roundover trim suggestion. It will be far simpler, and you can use your roundover bit to make your own, at least while you still have a table saw. You cut the trim material to the thickness you need, do the roundover on the full sized piece, then use the table saw to cut off a thin piece the size and length you need. Roundover both edges, cut them off, then roundover and cut another strip from the same material. You can make them any size you want, even from the exact same material you're using for the doors. Here's a video on making your own roundover, it is for larger size, but the same principle applies. 




I also think you will need to cut off the edges of the 12mm panels to fit in the rails and stiles. You can't really put a 12 mm thick panel (tongue) into a 13mm groove and have a leftover 5 mm to support it all, and still have room for a roundover on the door. The diagram shows what I mean. It shows the option of an angled cut with a table saw or a straight cut with the same groove cutter. The edge of plywood is not very attractive in a panel, so you mount it with the flat side showing. The alternative is to use thinner plywood for the panel.

Finally, I think you can see the value of having a table saw.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

megamatch said:


> @TenGees yes this was what I was looking at first, buying a ready set. but currently my experience is too bad to know which bits are good and the "obvious" good ones seems to cost a fortune. Is it possible to add a 1/2 shank/collet (what's the difference between the two?) to my 1200w router or would it be too weak? seems most "fun bits" are made to be used with 1/2 shank/collet.


I don't know the model router, but if it only has a 1/4 inch collet (6mm), then that's the largest you can use. You can get a groove cutter in 6mm, but go fairly slowly and don't push it too hard. BTW, you don't seat the bit all the way into the collet. You drop it all the way in then lift it up about 3mm, then tighten the collet. 

I am pretty sure you will be able to find Freud bits where you live, the best ones are made in Italy. They are among my favorites.

In all my posts, I've tried to suggest methods that you can do with your existing router and without spending much money out for tools.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

DesertRatTom said:


> In all my posts, I've tried to suggest methods that you can do with your existing router and without spending much money out for tools.


Yes your replies has been consistently awesome, I have been experimenting with some scrap wood I had on hand (not good enough quality) and the results so far has been dissappointing, as expected. But I feel it was worth it for learning. Time well spent.

Now I know how I will make it, your idea about doing the roundover trim and later attach it was awesome I think this is easiest and best method for me to use. Just make a normal shaker door and later attach them, gives the best looking corners and for a amateur like me is a good way to get started. Just need to experiement a bit to find the correct sizes of the rounderover trim and the panels.
Any advice on how to connect the roundovers so they dont start "moving" after awhile? The house they will be put in is a old farmhands house (we live in the old farmers house) and winter time the inside temperature will be around 10-13 degrees celcius, so worried about movements in the wood. It appears I need to buy all the material anyways so suggestion on what type of wood would also be great, they will be painted with a solid tint (that make sense?), no lasyr or showthrough. I was thinking about using... when I translate it in google it says "deal", wood from pine tree.
My lady has given me "full control" of this house, not so much the main house...

I noticed the panel thickness is too big at 12mm, going to look around for 6-7mm. Also looking around on other peoples projects in this site I think I will make a trim on the backside of the frame to fit into the "dooropening" so to speak, gives it a better connection I believe and overall more "professional" feel.

With the router I bought it came with collets 6mm, 8mm and 1/4 inch. I believe 1/2 inch is 12,something millimeters, maybe 12,3 or such. 8mm is almost like 1/3.

Edit: Wanted to add also going to experiment with groove cutter on the back of the panel, as per your diagram.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

old55 said:


> Welcome to the forum.


Thanks man. Love that you're a Professional Greeter!


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

megamatch said:


> ...@TenGees yes this was what I was looking at first, buying a ready set. but currently my experience is too bad to know which bits are good and the "obvious" good ones seems to cost a fortune. Is it possible to add a 1/2 shank/collet (what's the difference between the two?) to my 1200w router or would it be too weak? seems most "fun bits" are made to be used with 1/2 shank/collet.


Most of this has been answered but I'd like to add: I don't know if you can find a rail & stile set (without a panel bit) in a small shaft. That would be cheaper and the panel bit is what really requires the big shank and router power (large radius).


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think you've made a wise decision to use trim. Wood expands and contracts mainly across the grain, and almos nothing with the grain, so expansion and contraction of the trim isn't an issue. If you go with the 6mm ply panel, you won't have any expansion to speak of, however, you can make certain by gluing the panel in place only in the top and bottom center of the panel. It is being held in by the groove anyhow. Whatever finish you decide to use, finish the panels before you assemble them. Very hard to apply finish thoroughly after assembly.

Once you glue on the trim, with modern glues, it will NEVER come off. Get the slowest setting glue you can find so you won't feel rushed. In a warm room, the most common glue sets up in 2 to 4 minutes so you don't have time to fiddle with it. The slowest setting glues stay "open" for 15-20 minutes. Use a small brush or a small stick to apply the glue to the door. Don't use very much glue because when you place the trim, it will squeeze out. You can't apply finish over glue or you'll have a white spot. If glue does squeeze out, you let it sit for a few moments and as it stiffens up, scrape it off. A little sanding after the glue is dry will remove any residue. 

I suggest you place the roundove trim starting on one edge and work your way around the door, fitting one edge at a time. It is easier to make if fit and look good that way. You do this fitting and cutting before gluing, BTW

To hold the trim in place, I suggest you consider borrowing or renting an air compressor and buy what's called a pin nailer. This tool is very inexpensive and shoots in very fine pins with no heads. They make a tiny hole that is almost impossible to see (remember you can fill cracks and pinholes by rubbing a bit of Timber Mate filler across it). Buy the Timber Mate from Amazon, and order the color that matches the wood you're working with on the trim (probably a good, kiln dried pine).

For a smooth surface, I start by sanding with a 150 grit paper, then up to 220. Any finer grit makes particles that stick on the wood grain. Before you finish a sanded surface, buy a package of waxed "Tack Cloth" to rub on the surface and remove all sawdust. Almost any paint and finish materials store will have this.

If you want it to look best, apply a sanding sealer to the wood before sanding. This raises the grain slightly before you sand and renders a smoother surface. Apply and sand within two hours, but let it dry a bit before you sand.

Most of the time, I finish using a simple combination of water-based stain in whatever color I like best. On the clean, clean, dust free project, I apply some pre-stain to the surface, which smooths out the stain's coverage. Within 2 hours, I then use a cloth to rub the stain lightly onto the wood and wipe off any excess. Stir, not shake, the stain gently but thoroughly to make sure the particles in the stain are mixed thoroughly. Apply and repeat until you get the color you want. Try this all out on a piece of scrap first and take notes.

You can get water based or oil based stain. Oil based stain must be applied, the excess wiped off (reapplied for darker finish, wiped again) and allowed to dry at least 24 hours before applying the final coats of finish as described below. I really prefer the water based stain. If I forget to use the sanding sealer, after the first application of stain I must then sand the raised fibers off with a few light passes with 220 grit sandpaper, then use the tack cloth. This happens on occasion because I'm human.

Finally, I most often use something called "wipe on poly" in either gloss or semi gloss. This gives it a shiny appearance and seals and protects the finish. I apply this with a disposable brush or just as good, with a paper towel folded over several time to form something like a brush. You can thin down the wipe on poly to give it a longer drying time and make for an even smoother finish. Instructions for thinning is on the can or bottle of poly. I usually apply 2 to 4 layers, until it looks perfect.

The finish really makes the project look either great, or anateurish. Worth taking the time to do it right.

OR, you can sand as described, tack cloth it, and apply paint. Simpler and paint works unless you want the look of finished wood. I made a 10 foot long set of cabinets topped with two book cases and a large space in the middle for the flat screen TV. It is painted because I always like the look of painted book cases, and the plywood I used didn't look all that good to me.

Hope you didn't get bored with my short novel of a post, but finishing is really important, and most of finishing is about the preparation of the project. My method is one of MANY ways to finish a project, but it has been easy and reliable for me and doesn't cost much.

BTW, I use small, shallow plastic food cups to hold the stain and poly. Don't dip your brush into the can! You will likely add some particles to the stain or poly that will ruin the whole batch. I use disposable plastic spoons to ladle out enough of either to do the job.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

Thanks for very good and detailed information @DesertRatTom this was a gold mine for the finishing work. I bookmarked the page for later reference, perhaps should edit some and make a sticky out of this? been very helpful.

I wish I could write with how my progress has been, unfortnately I've been having issues assembling my router table and still haven't finished it. 

Seems I cannot remove the springs easily from my router model and thus I need to mount the whole piece, was going to use a insert plate (for easier access to change bits and collet/shank) but the material I had couldn't take the extra size and weight from the router without bulging and since this is a limited depth router I didnt want to use too thick material either, currently looking around for metal scraps, preferbly aluminium but everything I find is 1-2mm.

Guess the table is a topic of its own.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

megamatch said:


> _Thanks for very good and detailed information @DesertRatTom this was a gold mine for the finishing work. I bookmarked the page for later reference, perhaps should edit some and make a sticky out of this? been very helpful.
> 
> I wish I could write with how my progress has been, unfortnately I've been having issues assembling my router table and still haven't finished it.
> 
> ...


The opening for the plate will be fairly large, and the plate will be level with the top. I think the second layer is a good idea, and helpls keep the table flat over time. It can have the same size opening as the top layer, or be smaller to provide a lip to prevent the plate falling through. I like MDF for the bottom layer because it is FLAT! Just don't get it wet.

I think it is a little daunting to position the mounting holes precisely in a home made or undrilled plate. The best way is to use the base plate as a template. Then put a punch into the correct holes and mark where you will drill. It is easier to position the small bolt if you drill the holes as shown in the last diagram, with the top part of the hole drilled only part way, and a smaller, but still slightly oversized hole, in the middle of the larger opening. That way if you're off slightly, you have a little "wiggle" room. See plate cross section diagram.

You use leveling screws underneath the plate to make it match the top surface of the table. When you mount the router on the plate, you remove the phenolic base. That means the router on the plate will be very close to the surface, so there will be plenty of height for any bit you choose to use. Here's a diagram of leveling screws for the concept, and a picture of the leveling screws I prefer, made by Kreg, and costing about $20 for the set of four.


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

Hello again!

Yes using a rabbet was my intended idea, the problem is my router is made for handheld and you cannot remove the handles thus the insert plate need to be a little bit bigger. was going to use some scrap plywood i had lying around, but when i made the plate out of it and with a rabbet in the table (and because the plate had to be bigger, due to not removing handles etc) the plate started to "fail" in the middle, now my poor english shows. dont know how to say but plate was going down in middle where router was attached?

as the the table itself the top will be made from laminat kitchen countertop (my friend had some leftover from doing his kitchen). 

I think I could probably easily fix this with maybe some thicker aluminium or maybe 8mm acrylic sheet, I just havent been able to head to the shops yet, working fulltime and 2 small children, I am doing all this once they are asleep.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@megamatch Did you put those height adjustment screws in? They will allow you to make the plate level with the laminate surface much easier than trying to make the rabbet the exact depth as the thickness of the plate. You can use screws instead, through small holes pre-drilled through the second layer lip. Drill it out slightly smaller than the screw. File the sharp ends of the screws off so they're nice and flat so they can support the plate in at lease 6 places. Use a straight edge to line the top of the plate with the table surface. The adjusting screws should be at least half an inch longer than the thickness of the rabbet, and I'd use a fairly thick screw to keep more of the thread surface in maximum contact with the wood. It's the friction that keeps them in place, so don't wax the threads. Thead the screws in before cutting, back them out, cut and file them smooth or even slightly rounded, then reinsert them. As I understand what you said, this seems like the solution.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

megamatch said:


> Hello again!
> 
> Yes using a rabbet was my intended idea, the problem is my router is made for handheld and you cannot remove the handles thus the insert plate need to be a little bit bigger. was going to use some scrap plywood i had lying around, but when i made the plate out of it and with a rabbet in the table (and because the plate had to be bigger, due to not removing handles etc) the plate started to "fail" in the middle, now my poor english shows. dont know how to say but plate was going down in middle where router was attached?
> 
> ...



Maybe you tried this already...did you try turning the router so the handles are diagonal to the cutout...? Maybe it fits through the hole that way...?


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## megamatch (Jan 17, 2019)

DesertRatTom said:


> @megamatch Did you put those height adjustment screws in?


I made a order via amazon but I haven't received them yet. The plywood I had for plate was too weak, I've since changed it do MDF. I think the weight was too much for the plywood I used. Now it's hopefully holding up good, just need to buy some longer screws to attach it, even though I removed the bottom acrylic plate from the router the screws that came with it was missing like 5mm. Already widen the holes for the heads but dont want to put them deeper inside, afraid it might make it too weak.

Feel I am making progress, just taking time to get the stuff I need.

I have a question about the insert plate fitting though, the insert plate is done, holes fit but I need screws. Want to make a fitting to the table. If I attach the plate to the routertabletop, building a temporary frame around it and use that frame for guideline with my router, do I need to use a guide bushing? If so I need calculate the offset I recon.

Also, if make the insert plate so that when I use the table the wood I use come from the same direction as it would if I handheld it that would mean the insert plate would not be "along the table" but the longer side would cross the table (due to the handles on the router). Would it be safe to turn the router insert plate 90 degrees? Hopefully this makes sense!

Thanks alot again for awesome help!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Remember you want to be able to reach both the on/off switch AND the lock lever. You should be able to just lift the plate out with the router attached even with handles. At least with the smaller Rockler plate, I was able to pull the plate and router out with ease.

Remember to pre drill in the MDF, otherwise it will split on you. The ply will do most of the load bearing, the MDF will keep it flat. If you're a fuss budget, you can put a couple of trusses under neath, using screws through the truss and all the way into the ply. That means calculating the length of screw you'll need, and putting a stop on the bit you pre drill the truss with. You don't want the screws to get too close to the ply's surface or you'll have a little "pimple" to deal with.


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