# Insert modification for better table DC



## Willji (Feb 28, 2020)

Hi folks,

This is my first post. I’m sharing my router insert mod for feedback and suggestions.

*Background*: I’ve been working on a router table setup that includes a PC 7518 in a Jessem lift, an Incra Ls Positioner, and the Incra Wonderfence. I plan to build the table with a DC box under the router. I have researched other great threads for that.

I ran into a snag where the Jessem inserts have no DC suction holes like the desired Incra magnaloc inserts do for e.g. -for plowing dados away from the fence DC.

*Solution*: While I could invest in an Incra adapter plate and cleansweep inserts I decided to modify the Jessem inserts and add my own holes. I’ve attached pictures of the mod. I figure the holes should be adequate to capture dust during dadoing away from the fence DC. I home the material going by bit doesn’t snag on the hole edges. I sanded flat and removed burrs. As you see in the pics the insert underside has divisions that assisted even placement of Forster bit holes.

Feedback/suggestion?

Best Regards,

Bill


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice solution.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Someone told us a few years ago that he drilled holes like that in his table saw insert and it improved the DC on it too. Good job.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

That does allow air to flow through the plate, but a router has a fan on the bottom blowing air through the motor for cooling.
That means the dust will be blown UPWARDS onto the surface of the table by these vents, so you need good extraction at the fence.

I have the incra perforated plates and its very interesting watching the dust billow up out of the table.


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## Willji (Feb 28, 2020)

Thanks for your thoughts Bob,

However, the vented Incra plates are designed to support *downward* suction of dust into Incra’s cleansweep box below, containing the router and having a 4” DC connection. My set up would have a 2 hp cyclone DC attached. YT videos show dadoing away from the fence with little dust on the table and all dust being sucked through the box under the table. My box will be DIY.

At the same time I have been somewhat concerned about dust going downward and maybe getting into the router. It does seem to be accepted practice not to worry about it.

Best Regards


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

They might well be designed to allow dust downwards, but thats not what happens on my table.

My router is enclosed, but since fitting the incra plate and cleansweep inserts, there is no reason to have the extraction on the box. I suspect 90% of the dust is pushed upwards into the fence extraction during a side cut. Obviously more is held down by the wood if you are grooving from below.

I dont know for sure, but I think all routers have cooling fans. My makita creates quite an updraught when in the table. I have no worries of dust falling into the bearings


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I like you idea and execution...


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

sunnybob said:


> They might well be designed to allow dust downwards, but thats not what happens on my table.
> 
> My router is enclosed, but since fitting the incra plate and cleansweep inserts, there is no reason to have the extraction on the box. I suspect 90% of the dust is pushed upwards into the fence extraction during a side cut. Obviously more is held down by the wood if you are grooving from below.
> 
> I dont know for sure, but I think all routers have cooling fans. My makita creates quite an updraught when in the table. I have no worries of dust falling into the bearings


Bob just wondering if you have a DC box around the router and if so does it have holes to allow air to be pulled in and through the box. When I built my router table I used plexiglass on the door front and drilled 5 - 1-1/2" holes for air to come into the space and the compartment has a 4" connector that connects to the DC system along with a 2-1/2" connection on the fence. The solution that Bill is using will allow better collection on my system after I drill those holes. And my system works great now but will be improved with this mod on some cuts while not adding much on others. It's the some part that can make a mess for me.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

My system has evolved over the last 5 years (lol).
When I built the enclosure, I cut a 4" diameter hole directly under the router, and connected the router to the hole with flexible hose so the router fan was pulling clean air through and up the motor. There is another 4" hole in the back of the cabinet for the dust extraction, and 4 x 1" holes in the front of the cabinet to allow replacement air in.
This worked well.

Since fitting the incra clean sweep system (replacing the Kreg plate that warped) I noticed how much was being blown upwards. As an experiment i disconnected the extraction hose from the cabinet. I do have good extraction on the fence though.
Any side or shape cutting and it all goes through the fence. Obviously if i am cutting an upside down groove (rebate, rabbit, whatever you want to call it), then some dust gets forced down into the box which needs vacuuming out one way or another, but the router is always sucking clean air through the bottom of the box. 
This is with my Makita RP1800, which has been in the table from new almost 6 years ago now. I cant comment on any other make of router's fan efficiency


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

My system has evolved over the last 5 years (lol).
When I built the enclosure, I cut a 4" diameter hole directly under the router, and connected the router to the hole with flexible hose so the router fan was pulling clean air through and up the motor. There is another 4" hole in the back of the cabinet for the dust extraction, and 4 x 1" holes in the front of the cabinet to allow replacement air in.
This worked well.

Since fitting the incra clean sweep system (replacing the Kreg plate that warped) I noticed how much was being blown upwards. As an experiment i disconnected the extraction hose from the cabinet. I do have good extraction on the fence though.
Any side or shape cutting and it all goes through the fence. Obviously if i am cutting an upside down groove (rebate, rabbit, whatever you want to call it), then some dust gets forced down into the box which needs vacuuming out one way or another, but the router is always sucking clean air through the bottom of the box. 
This is with my Makita RP1800, which has been in the table from new almost 6 years ago now. I cant comment on any other make of router's fan efficiency


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

@sunnybob
I like that ,Bob, that is the way my router DC is set up too. I don't have any additional hole drilled in the plate, i just use an oversized hole in the plate that I use for Dadoes etc, or no ZC plate at all.
Herb


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I've kind of swamped the original post. Sorry about that.
What youve done is good. Knowing what I know now, if I still had the kreg plate i would do the same.
Just be prepared for the dust to blow upwards, instead of downwards.


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Bill, your experiment has me curious to learn how things work out for you after you have your box in place.

In the last 6 months I have built two different dust collection boxes. The first one was just a prototype to allow me to see just how much saw dust I could collect using downdraft collection along. The second one was the permanent one where I heeded the advise of Stick and others to make sure the motor had good clean air to breath. In both cases, I was and am absolutely thrilled with how much sawdust gets captured when dadoing and edge routing. I am never routing again without it.

When dadoing, I experience a slight burst of dust right when the cut is started, but once the bit is about 2x the diameter into the cut virtually nothing comes out on the table. It is all be sucked back through the dado slot and down into the box and out the dust collection port. 

When edge routing, using my particular custom router fence (which has no dust port BTW), the dust from the edge route is sucked down through the insert plate as well. I attribute this to the 45mm cave behind the bit that traps, breathes and allows the dust to be sucked downward. Works so well, I do not see myself modifying its design to add the more traditional above table dust collection.

The added downdraft afforded by the extra holes in your plate may be all that is needed to improve upon what I perceive to be the weakest performing dust collection scenario - freehand edge routing (i.e. edge routing without the fence). 

BTW, I am using the 7518 router, same as you.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mbrun said:


> When edge routing, using my particular custom router fence (which has no dust port BTW), the dust from the edge route is sucked down through the insert plate as well. I attribute this to the 45mm cave behind the bit that traps, breathes and allows the dust to be sucked downward. Works so well, I do not see myself modifying its design to add the more traditional above table dust collection.
> 
> The added downdraft afforded by the extra holes in your plate may be all that is needed to improve upon what I perceive to be the weakest performing dust collection scenario - freehand edge routing (i.e. edge routing without the fence).


to add above table at the fence DC is a major plus...* SERIOUSLY MAJOR!!!* VOE...
see the PDF to make an above table pickup...
a PVC build is illustrated...
a sheet metal HVAC wye fitting is a lot easier easier to work w/ and more adaptable...

.


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Stick, you have got me wondering about adapting that PVC Trap for use in a standard-alone contraption that could be used for free-hand routing. Hmmmm?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick also suggested adding a "snorkle" tube that is attached to the air intake (top) of the router and that pulls clean air in. This would mean cutting a hole through the dust collection box in my case, and being fussy, I'd want that snorkel to draw air from a filtered chamber, a box with a gille on the bottom and sized to fit a paper filter or two. That cleaned air will probably clear the insert holes by blowing on them so the sawdust will fall into the DC box, not the motor. Is that pretty much what you did?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mbrun said:


> Stick, you have got me wondering about adapting that PVC Trap for use in a standard-alone contraption that could be used for free-hand routing. Hmmmm?


free hand as in not using an RT???...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

mbrun said:


> Stick, you have got me wondering about adapting that PVC Trap for use in a standard-alone contraption that could be used for free-hand routing. Hmmmm?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Cut away a section that hangs over the edge. Make an oversized plate to mount both the router and the trap, connect a hose to one end and cap the other end. 

Or check to see if the router brand has a DC boot that fits inside the router. I know there area a few brands that have this attachment.


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> free hand as in not using an RT???...



Version 2 Freehand. Freehand as in routing an irregular shape using a bearing bit or template on the table but without a fence. 


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

DesertRatTom said:


> Stick also suggested adding a "snorkle" tube that is attached to the air intake (top) of the router and that pulls clean air in. This would mean cutting a hole through the dust collection box in my case, and being fussy, I'd want that snorkel to draw air from a filtered chamber, a box with a gille on the bottom and sized to fit a paper filter or two. That cleaned air will probably clear the insert holes by blowing on them so the sawdust will fall into the DC box, not the motor. Is that pretty much what you did?



No snorkel tube, but effectively the same result. In my case, clean fresh air is drawn into lower motor chamber, it flows up through and around the motor into an upper chamber where it gets mixed with sawdust and air being drawn into and through the upper chamber and then exhausted to the dust collector. 

Here is a front view of box with vented door open (after about 10 minutes of routing BTW). 










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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mbrun said:


> Version 2 Freehand. Freehand as in routing an irregular shape using a bearing bit or template on the table but without a fence.


then the pick up on the fence is made to order...


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Bill, 

I followed your lead today and increased the air flow of my Woodpecker inserts the performed some routing with two of them. 

I can tell you with absolute certainty that it noticeably increases air intake. The woodpecker inserts have radial ribs that divide the back into 12 angled segments so I drilled the largest hole that I could without impacting the ribs. 











Concern was raised about the upward draft from router fan perhaps blowing the saw dust out (if I interpreted the concern correctly). I can say this was not my observation with the 7518 motor. Although the air does discharge from the end of the motor, it actually discharges the air more centrifugally out the end rather than linearly. When the dust collector is on, this centrifugal seems like it just disperses the fresh dust in the box. 


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> then the pick up on the fence is made to order...



Yeh, perhaps a weighted movable one.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mbrun said:


> Yeh, perhaps a weighted movable one.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


good plan...


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

I’m intrigued by all this dialogue, but being a book learner type, a few photos would be greatly appreciated...please!?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bstrom said:


> I’m intrigued by all this dialogue, but being a book learner type, a few photos would be greatly appreciated...please!?


point out what you would like clarified or to understand and you best prepare to be inundated....


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Stick probably has lots of pictures. Here are the first couple I found browsing the web.


















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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Willji said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> This is my first post. I’m sharing my router insert mod for feedback and suggestions.
> 
> ...



Hey Bill, just checking in to see if you have any progress to report.


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## Willji (Feb 28, 2020)

Hey folks, I followed this thread until I thought it was finished but went back a few days ago and was surprised at how it had continued. My apologies to mbrun for not responding sooner. Lesson learned, stay in touch.

Man, I’m impressed by the contributions on this thread! There are obviously inventors among us. Routing and dust collection. A significant challenge.

From the contributions, I’m left with ”conclusions” about router table dc:

1. For under router table dust collection boxes the insert holes have been found effective.
2. The PC 7518 has a significant air pull through it exiting at the bit, but with adequate dc system it is “all“ pulled downward when dadoing away from the fence or with no fence.
3. Not fully covered but adjustable air replacement for the box helps dc.
4. It may be desirable to go the extra mile and arrange a fresh supply of air for the router by ”snorkel” tube ( contributer stick ) or dividing the box to isolate. The router air intake (contributer mbrun)

Re #4 mbrun shared this picture:











This is my router with Jessem lift:











I’m inclined to pursue mbrun’s split box design but I obviously have to shape the divider. To accommodate the lift posts. Concerns would be making sure I can still remove and service the router.

This has been taking a while with other connected projects. The plan being to replace the top of a heavy Husky metal table frame with a torsion box multifunction table with router and it’s dc box built in, also serving as a table saw out feed table.






































Well I finished with a tour, minus the coffee!

Best regards.


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