# Fixing a deck railing



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A friend asked me to repair her deck railing, there was some rot on one of the posts and she was not very happy about that. The person who built the railing for this deck wasn't thinking. He positioned the seam directly over the fence post... trouble waiting to happen. I removed the left rail and then tilted my circular saw to 45º. I adjusted my depth of cut so it would just cut through the rail. Using a large speed square as a guide I cut off about an 8" section from the right rail.

I used the 45º angle of the speed square as a reference and cut out the rotted wood free hand with my multitool. On the left of photo 2 you can see how much rot was in the end of that 8" section I removed. I flipped the section around to the good end and trimmed 1/4" off the side. I held it over the opening and used the multitool to trim it to the proper width. I painted the raw edges with a heavy coat of Titebond III. After it had soaked in a bit I applied more glue and held the piece in position while I drilled small pilot holes and fastened the fill strip in place with a couple of finish nails. I trimmed the top flush with the multitool.

Although the railing was built with a common 2x6" I replaced it with pressure treated lumber. Using the speed square and circular saw I cut the complimentary angle and screwed it in place. Some quick sanding with the multitool and the joint was done. I set my saw back to 90º and adjusted it to just cut through the 2x6" and cut the overhang on the end. I trimmed off the corners at 45º to match the other rail and used a 1/4" round over bit to soften the edges. A coat of paint and she was very pleased. These photos were for her but I thought some of you might enjoy looking at them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry, Mike, but I disagree with your assessment of the scarf joint over the post. That's exactly where it belonged. Any other location would have, in theory anyway, made for a very weak top rail. The cap rail is supposed to be able to withstand a specific weight/force applied to it laterally. For example a 250 lb 6' tall person falling against it. In order to withstand that, the weight has to transfer directly to the posts. Any kind of midspan joint would compromise that strength.
_Installing a piece of waterproof membrane on top of the post, under the cap-rail would have given better long term protection, as would better annual maintenance.
_


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

News to me Dan, I don't build decks or railings. The cap rail is secured every 12" with decking screws to the support beam under it. It is rock solid now, I tried to move it and could not. I also used two deck screws pocket hole fashion to tie the cap rails together. I do appreciate the information; hopefully I will never need to use it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I think this is the applicable American rule...
IBC 1607.7, the load requirements are for a 50 pound per foot uniform load or a 200 pound concentrated load applied
at any point along the top of the guard. 
Lots of background info here...

Guardrail & Handrail Strength Requirements & Testing


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I should also point out that the spindles _also_ contravene most Building codes. There's a very specific maximum gap allowance in the Building Code; it came about from some infant accidents where toddlers got their heads stuck, or worse, squeezed through. I would imagine there were some fatalities from the latter.
"As detailed in Best Practices Guide to Residential Construction: The International Residential Code (IRC) requires a minimum 36-inch-high guardrail for all decks, balconies, or screened enclosures more than 30 inches off the ground. For child safety, the balusters or other decorative infill must be spaced less than 4 inches apart (a 4-inch-diameter ball should not pass between the balusters)."
Deck & Porch Railing / Guardrailing Construction & codes: Guide to Safe and Legal Porch & Deck Railing & Guardrail Construction & Codes


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Sorry, Mike, but I disagree with your assessment of the scarf joint over the post. That's exactly where it belonged. Any other location would have, in theory anyway, made for a very weak top rail. The cap rail is supposed to be able to withstand a specific weight/force applied to it laterally. For example a 250 lb 6' tall person falling against it. In order to withstand that, the weight has to transfer directly to the posts. Any kind of midspan joint would compromise that strength.
> _Installing a piece of waterproof membrane on top of the post, under the cap-rail would have given better long term protection, as would better annual maintenance.
> _


agreed on the joint location and why...

if you haven't WPM for the top of post butyl rubber caulk, Vulkem 116 or Sika 1A will work very well and are paintable...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Cornered*

thought later that I should have mentioned the situation that occurs on a lot if not most balcony railings, and that's the mitred corners. Same _big_ problem and same solution.
I loves VULKEM!! :x


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is why I encourage new members to post questions and projects; I always tell them I learn new things on the forum every day. Maybe they will believe me now! Are half lap joints a better choice over scarf joints for cap railings?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good question, Mike; I don't know. 
I think what happens is, pro carpenters build the original, and time is money. A quick cut with the SCMS and the scarf or mitre is done. 
Far too few guys will go the extra mile to make sure the joint doesn't leak and rot, even if they _do_ nice carpentry work.
I used to carry at _least_ a gal. of Pentachlorophenol in the van at all times. ALL exterior exposed joints got dunked before assembly.
When we had to switch to Copper Naphthanate (sp?) the green stain put customers off, not to mention the long lasting odour.
The only other option was Zinc Napthanate and it smells just as bad...but at least it's clear.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; when I said the scarf was in exactly the right location I was actually wrong, sort of. The scarf is (was) too far off to the right by maybe an inch?


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

My friend's tenant moved out and she wanted the railing repaired on the side entrance...after looking at the damage I advised her it should be replaced as the railing height was only 32" and the 4x4's could not be "extended"...

While the damage itself was not extensive and could be repaired as you did, Mike, i convinced her to replace the railing.

While disassembling I also found other weaker areas...maybe it might have been worth it to remove the top 2x4's and look for more rot between the wood pieces...? For my little project it was worth it...2x4's are cheap...

...nice job on the joints by the way... Was the paint the restore kind...? It looks like the Olympic restorer...

EDIT...Sorry...I meant 2x6's...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

@DaninVan @stick 486

I have some questions and observations. First, I will say up front that I am not a big fan of wooden decks and I don’t have a lot of experience with them. So, this is for my own edification to file away in the hard drive, which sits on my shoulders. Further discussion might be of interest with those having future deck building plans. With that said:

I cannot feature anyone building something in this configuration and not sealing the ends of the materials to prevent water infiltration. A rubber/butyl type based product is the only choice for this, in my opinion. Any type of a latex product would invite further deterioration as it eventually degrades, allowing water infiltration and more deterioration. If anyone knows anything about latex and silicon based chalking products would never use them for this type of an exterior assembly. Rubber based would be the only choice here. You two offered some good examples by the way.

Now, in my mind, I would coat both sides of the scarf joint and then butt the two pieces up after they dried. This in my mind, would; seal the ends, and allow for an “expansion joint” of sorts, as the wood moves. (Your thoughts on this, pro and con would be appreciated.) This may warrant further discussion.

Then, I would not have stopped with the top rail; I would have coated the scab on the top of the post for the same reasons. Sealing the end grain and providing a flexible seal that would account for any seasonal wood movement, while providing a shield for water infiltration.

I, also, question Mike’s choice of pressure treated wood as a replacement piece. My experience tells me, that, eventually the PT will warp, twist, bow, cup, or split. It will not accept stain or paint adequately and will just plain “stick out” eventually. Wouldn’t a non-pressure treated or even Cedar be a better choice of material for this repair?

No reflection on Mike, but on the original builder. Why would you build a flat cap rail and not provide for water run-off? A flat surface just invites water to sit on top and soak into any crack, crevice or knothole. I would have incorporated a slight bevel or canted the cap a couple of degrees to foster run-off. What is the accepted way of doing this?

Again, I don’t have much experience in this type of construction, but I am always open to learning new things. So, I am bowing to your expertise to offer a learning experience for those of us who don’t know.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bill; for a guy without much experience in this area *you sure hit all the high spots!* You can come and build decks for me anytime. 
On the PT thing: pressure treating isn't _as_ effective on _every_ wood species, so the PT plants pick wood species that absorb the treatment. That doesn't always work out so well for the functionality of the wood for the project it was bought for. Hemlock in particular; that stuff splits, checks, twists like crazy. Terrible choice for exposed exterior work like railings.
Up here, for a long time, they didn't treat WRC as its natural oiliness doesn't take pressure treating very well. _But it does protect the surface!_. So, I had to order my Cedar, then send it out for custom treating.
I had a client, who against my strenuous objections, refused to use WRC (a lot more money) and opted for the PT Hemlock for his whole deck and stairs project. A year later he was whining like a spoiled brat about all the aesthetic issues. Not an iota of sympathy from me. Sometimes tough love is the only answer... 
On the painting part, they recommend letting the PT wood age for a year before attempting to apply any stains or paint. Not a lot of contractors willing to wait a year to get paid for a project...so, you know what happens. Hence the bad reputation, or at least in part.
A side issue, Bill, is the particular climate you're in. Here, West Coast Rainforest, the Summers are relatively cool...30C is considered a hot day/23 24C would be the norm, and the Fall/Winter/Spring are wet and fairly warm. Perfect weather conditions for year round fungal growth! And it does, and algae. Grows like a fur coat out here. Using anything other than PT lumber is a disaster waiting to happen.
New multi residence buildings just don't use wood railings anymore.Vinyl deck coverings are still popular, covering over ordinary plywood decking; it _should_ be illegal, building code wise. All the relevant people know the maintenance won't get done and they'll be pulling the decks apart in 10 years (or less)...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> @DaninVan @stick 486
> 
> *1.* I cannot feature anyone building something in this configuration and not sealing the ends of the materials to prevent water infiltration. A rubber/butyl type based product is the only choice for this, in my opinion. Any type of a latex product would invite further deterioration as it eventually degrades, allowing water infiltration and more deterioration. If anyone knows anything about latex and silicon based chalking products would never use them for this type of an exterior assembly. Rubber based would be the only choice here. You two offered some good examples by the way.
> 
> ...


1... The type of caulk you use wold be dictated by your climate...
PL S40 is a very good choice for temperate climates..
Loctite PL S40 Window Door and Siding Sealant from Loctite Adhesives
for aggressive climes such as far northern and mountain states Vulkem and Sika lead the list...
siliconized latex just doesn't make the grade and fails in the long run... some even within a year...

2... Same here...

3... and I would have done the balusters also...
freeze/thaw cycles can raise the dickens w/ exposed/open construction and thinking long range is mandatory...
water is the enemy and must be excluded from entry everywhere that you can possibly manage...

4... Personally I stay as far away from PT for the very reasons you state...
also the ACQ PT splinters go septic on some people and fester ...
Many use PT w/o really know anything about PT, types of or when, where and how to use/select it... 
PT installations are done using inadequate hardware dooming the project...

my choices for wood is Ipe, redwood or western red cedar...
wood selection guides are attached as are PT information sheets... 

5... a couple of degrees is generally insufficient... 7-8° seems to work well and double cant the top rail/cap.....
go to 10° for extended real winter locations or rain is the only way of life or so it seems...
RO the top and bottom edge by at least a ¼'' while yur at it... helps w/ splinter control...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Bill; for a guy without much experience in this area *you sure hit all the high spots!* You can come and build decks for me anytime. ...


thought the same...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks for the compliments, guys. Just because I don't have a lot of experience with this type of construction (decks) doesn't mean I can't see the obvious.

Dan,

I understand that PT could be a regional concern. PT is never my choice for exposed conditions, unless it happens to be ground contact applications like a post for a wooden privacy fence or something similar. Most folks don't understand that there are different levels of PT. Some is for and some isn't for ground contact conditions. If your not careful and get the wrong type it is a disaster waiting to happen.

I, also, agree with your opinions on vinyl.

Stick,

It appears that you are validating my observations. At least that tells me that my logic is not all hosed up.

As for #4 you are absolutely correct in your observations. ACQ treated is NASTY stuff! I took a splinter in my left index finger and the result was not pretty after a couple of days. A strong dose of Keflex reversed the resulting infection and I believe I got the splinter out, but to this day I have a recurring, painful "wart" at the location that no dermatologist has been able to stop. 

The use of the wrong hardware is, indeed, another issue. The wrong type/material fastener and it bleeds, stains and corrodes. Great thing if you are relying on the fastener for structural strength. Galvanic corrosion is always a concern when it comes to PT.

Then there is #5. I could see this as a lot of work/time expended to "do it right". Most won't bother. When it rots away in a couple of years the contractor will argue normal wear and tear. It just seems easier to take the time. I generally, bevel all four sides of a fence post top and then seal it to allow it to shed water. It is either that or a metal cap to protect the top from rain. 

Great PDF's by the way. Thanks, as always for taking the time to provide the education materials. I just wish everyone would take time to read these articles. They are a wealth of knowledge for the do-it-yourselfer.

In rereading the posts I focused in on Mike's post #8 where he asked if half laps would be better then scarf joints for the cap rail. This would be nothing more then a water trap in my opinion. It would be begging for rail to rot by trapping moisture. 

Anyway, thanks for answering. So many people read threads like this and are afraid to ask questions or point out fallacies. I'm not that type. I just wish some of the other members had joined in, also. I can't be the only inquiring mind!

If I learned one thing, if I ever decide to build a wooden deck, is that the cap rail should be jointed at the post and not along the top wherever it falls out.

Thanks, again.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> In rereading the posts I focused in on Mike's post #8 where he asked if half laps would be better then scarf joints for the cap rail. *This would be nothing more then a water trap in my opinion*. It would be begging for rail to rot by trapping moisture.
> 
> Anyway, thanks for answering. So many people read threads like this and are afraid to ask questions or point out fallacies. I'm not that type.* I just wish some of the other members had joined in*, also. I can't be the only inquiring mind!
> 
> ...


agreed and me too...


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Wow this is a busy thread, so many posts so soon. I agree with Dan, whether the joint is miter or butt the post is the most stable place for it to go. 1st and foremost it's all to do with providing a secure non flexing joint and that rail setup is not. A 2X on edge does not provide a large enough surface area to fasten screws, (or nails). 

Any place one creates a joint, regardless of the type or orientation of the joint, the joint will eventually open enough via expansion/contraction to allow moisture and eventually water in, via capillary action. 

The pics aren't clear enough at the cuts to allow for a species ID guess, I'm thinking either pine or fir, (possibly fir, the mat shows little cupping). Pine and PT SYP would cup like mad, the condition of the grain says maybe 10 + yrs and looks well maintained, so could be older. I have 2X10 framing lumber on the ground, almost 10 yrs (raised veg beds), never painted, 2 beds will be replaced next spring do to excessive rot.

Mike nice work, everything looks tight, those multitools come in real handy yeah!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> thought later that I should have mentioned the situation that occurs on a lot if not most balcony railings, and that's the mitred corners. Same _big_ problem and same solution.
> I loves VULKEM!! :x


that's some kind of fiercesome product...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

There were no deck codes for many years and they came about because of deck failures causing injuries caused from failing beams /posts, too much overhang/cantilevers over loading with people, too wide of spacing and heights for handrails, etc., mostly structural. But not much attention to weather treatment and joint placement. Good carpentry skills are supposed to take into account these things.
That is all well and good but it is one thing an owner building a deck and having in mind the maintenance for as long as he will own the house, and the contractor getting the job done as fast as he can and as cost effective ( AKA cheep),and even to the point of telling the workmen to "Get er Done and get paid " and off to the next one.

In High end housing it is a different situation, the contractors are living off of reputations and referrals and take care about the things that make the deck last. But the owners know that and are willing to pay more for it too, because they are not wanting to have to fix something in a year or two.

Wood is high maintenance when out in the weather.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Amen, Herb!
On the structural/lack of maintenance part, about 15 years ago a second floor apartment balcony~fire-escape collapsed, on a building a block away from us. Too many people on a badly compromised structure. Nobody was killed but there were some serious injuries.
All Hell broke loose when the Inspectors had a look at it. Mandatory balcony and fire-escape inspections and maintenance standards were imposed on _all_ multi-family buildings.
Don't know if the City is following through with their plan, but if the Fire Chief has any input you _know_ it'll get done.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Herb,


Herb Stoops said:


> In High end housing it is a different situation, the contractors are living off of reputations and referrals and take care about the things that make the deck last. But the owners know that and are willing to pay more for it too, because they are not wanting to have to fix something in a year or two.
> Herb


One would like to believe the above is the word of God, however it isn't. After nearly 37 yrs in the trade and many GCs of all runs under belt I can say with conviction "That ain't always true"! Too many times I've walked away from working with a GC, (repairs and new frames) that had no problem charging top dollar then supply PT and composite decks or select pine for ext trim instead C&B, "A" W/C shingles instead of R&R Extra clears. 

The last "BIG" contractor I did business with, mid 00s, the average project was $750k up to 1.4 mill more than half the properties were landfills, not dumps but low lying land near or in marsh areas, (the settling that goes on for possible decades is incredible). My company was small between 3 and 4 men, we got the small projects, remodels, adds and a couple in-law houses. I built decks with more sqft than both floors of my cape and I'm certain also cost more. Complete wrap arounds and multi levels, 3 seasons with the same sqft as my 1st floor. In the beginning the decks were Fir, Teak, IPE, Mahogany and P/O Cedar, a few composites, then almost strictly composite. I wouldn't accept a composite deck if it were free. 

The return is/was much higher with a well maintained wood deck, like the difference between vinyl and wood siding. If one is spending big money on an asset one should get it.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Nick, the finish is what the home owner had: Sun Proof acrylic latex stain.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; there's _another _ area where the industry has misled the customers. The Marketing gnomes I'm guessing(?).
In theory at least, 'paint' is supposed to form a membrane on top of the substrate and 'stain' is supposed to soak in.
My experience with the solid colour stains leads me to believe there's precious little 'soaking in' going on.
It's gotten worse with the latex types. They're _'paint'_ in every respect except the label.
The first clue is when they suggest primer. What?!

The other bugaboo is any form of RED stain; it fades. Badly. It's done that forever.
If someone wants to paint their siding or deck 'Tuscan Fireglow' they better put me on a long term contract, 'cause just like Arnie, 'I'll be back!'


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Work is like anything else you buy. You can get the cheap stuff that leaves you disappointed or spend a little more and buy the type that makes you happy. Unfortunately there aren't very many people that understand that.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Ghidrah said:


> Herb,
> 
> 
> One would like to believe the above is the word of God, however it isn't. After nearly 37 yrs in the trade and many GCs of all runs under belt I can say with conviction "That ain't always true"! Too many times I've walked away from working with a GC, (repairs and new frames) that had no problem charging top dollar then supply PT and composite decks or select pine for ext trim instead C&B, "A" W/C shingles instead of R&R Extra clears.
> ...


It has been 15 yrs. since I retired and there has been a serious recession going on for many of those years. So I can imagine how creative GC's are to survive the competition in the collapsed housing market.
Herb


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I'm glad I started this discussion. Lots of great information and I learned a few things. On my question about half lap joints I was not suggesting just cutting them, my thought was to glue them with Titebond III or Gorilla glue to create a strong highly water resistant joint. What about finger jointing the two cap rail ends this way? Other thoughts on a strong waterproof connection?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mike said:


> I'm glad I started this discussion. Lots of great information and I learned a few things. On my question about half lap joints I was not suggesting just cutting them, my thought was to glue them with Titebond III or Gorilla glue to create a strong highly water resistant joint. What about finger jointing the two cap rail ends this way? Other thoughts on a strong waterproof connection?


lap joints are water gathers....
Gorilla glue won't bridge gaps...
TB 3 won't be able to withstand exposed seasonal extremes...
there is a reason why adhesives like PL 400 and premium were invented...
finger joints.. when did they ever posses any strength...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; 'dust to dust...' 
If I could just get the moss off my truck.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Dan,
Maybe they changed the formulas to "Improve" the product. 
It may have something to do with the R/C shings and or the semi solid stain can't say for sure. Between 1962 and 1999 if my parents put a 2nd coat on the house they did, it between 72/76 while I was cozy with Uncle Sam. In 99 Ma asked me to paint the house because Da couldn't climb anymore, (the Xmas lights hadn't been taken down since early 80s. The only wear on the shings was from the power wash, no curling very few splits. I took a color sample to Sherwin/Williams and they matched the color. In 2005 they decided to strip the R/C off and go with vinyl said color "looked" blotchy and didn't want to keep touching it up. I didn't see it, (blotchy) but when Himself decides there's no reasoning. 

Herb,
There have been unscrupulous much longer than that, I think you lucked out big-time with the subs and GCs you hooked up with. Before I left my last employer in 84 my part of the crew gave me a pin on the chest thing that said, "As soon as you realize that I'm God, we'll get along fine". The drivers of one of the lumber yds called me "Little Hitler" because I turned back load drops with crap I wouldn't put on an animal shed let alone a house. Not accepting broken lumber from the load drop. I can't use this, send a truck to take it back, learn how to load a trailer and this won't happen. I didn't want to be called back to a job 5 yrs later let alone 1; I didn't make enough to absorb callbacks. 

In 05, I was the 1st framer the Yarmouth BD accepted digital pics of aspects of a project. I was building a deck for a big GC from the area and called the Cos PCS for a hole inspection and left the job. Mon came back poured the holes, framed the deck and laid most of the decking on Tues. Wed popped the braces lowered the deck, applied the rest of the decking minus steps, still had railing to do and left for 2 days on another job same GC then came back Mon and saw a "Stop Work" order on the side of the house. After calling the GC office, PCS and the THBD the inspection took place Fri because the PCS didn't call for the inspection til prev. Mon and didn't think to call me to stop the work when the BD said they were backed up. 

Monday was a loss, Tues, PCS and BGI on site, BDI wants me to tear up the whole deck because of the holes, PCS tries to convince BDI I'm legit and know what I'm doing. BDI, look I don't know you from a hole in the ground why would I jeopardize my job for you? A reasonable statement yeah! So I said to the PCS this is not my fault and you're going to cover the labor and materials. I then turned to the BDI and suggested I pull the decking around the 2 girts and holes and you decide which and or how many you want to verify. 

Out of 10 holes we dug up 5 before he let it go. Every hole dug to 52", and 18" wide, 2 bags quikrete at the bottom with the tube embedded in it. Hole depth for our area is 48", I was footing the base yrs before bigfeet were available because I didn't like my decks sinking more than an inch over 18 months. This effect is made so much worse by the back filled marsh and bog properties said Co was developing. I shook the BDI's hand when he signed off on the permit. I said jokingly to the BDI you guys are so busy and or someone at the GC office isn't doing their job, this kind of crap wouldn't be an issue if you guys accepted digital pics of the holes on the builds. A week plus later I get a call from the Yarmouth BDI saying they'll accept my digital pics emailed directly to their addy and how they wanted the pics to be taken.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I built a deck on the back of the house I had in northern Alberta. I did the best job I could on it even though I was about to sell the place. I don't like to do things any other way. I used all PT lumber, including the 1 1/4" radius edged decking. I draped foam sill gasket over all the joists to keep them dry. I also used the end cut preservative on all cuts and ceramic coated screws. I don't have a lot of experience with watching decks age either so I hope it works out.

Northern Alberta is exactly the opposite of where Dan is. It is similar in temp in the summer but it is sunny most of the time and the wind is ALWAYS blowing. In the winter is extremely cold and snow and still sunny. The PT wears off and degrades from the UV. You have to put some kind of cover coat on it to preserve its effectiveness.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I heard of a couple guys trying rubber roof strips on spruce framing, not sure how much traction that gave the joists. In 09 I tore out a PT deck installed between 85/87 on a property that was a moisture sponge, in a hollow, surrounded by trees, shrubs and rhodys against the house and less than 2 miles from the sound. T 1-11 for siding, there was so much rot on this property it was a little scary, the newest owner owned it since 98/99.

The deck albeit old, looked just like expected from a platform never maintained, the decking, cracked, cupped, splits 60+%. That's a lot of damage for a 28X24 deck, right? As we took it apart it was obvious looks can be deceiving. Except what was destroyed in the removal process we saved maybe 70% and split it up between the 2 of us. We found -0- deterioration on the joists not in contact with the ground, all the damage was due to removal process. So far I've built a couple PT tables and replaced all the rotten spruce framing on the platform at the back of the garden shed. John had enough joists and decking to built a little gazebo in his back yd.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm just catching up with threads made during my absence and am rather surprised at the reaction of a few members to this thread, after all, like me on non-specialist projects, Mike did not present the thread as a tutorial but rather as the method he chose for that particular job on that particular day. All the advice given by members was no doubt accurate but could/should have been offered as advice rather than criticism, in my usual humble opinion of course!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Harry; in a word, no.
We weren't picking on Mike, we (me) were pointing out a serious structural fault that needed to be addressed.
Especially as it was on a 'client's' house...leaving Mike in a Liability situation.
There's a Hell of a lot of great info in that thread, .pdfs etc.
If a poster puts up pics of himself/herself doing something _extremely_ risky on their TS or RT, members are QUICK to jump on it with both feet! I don't remember any one ever suggesting they were being unkind!
*I have a tremendous amount of respect for Mike's contributions here and to woodworking in general. No call for me to be rude to him. *


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