# template material



## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Well, after reading a lot of posts, it seems I'm a young'n being only 27 compared to you old pros. And I say that with the upmost respect of course. Accordingly, I'm a beginner, but I'm learning fast. My question for you "old" guys is about material for templates. I'm just finishing a cradle for my 3rd child 2 weeks old today and I made a lot of templates for the different pieces. The problem I am having is that I cannot find the 1/4" MDF that I would love to use anywhere around me in Eastern North Carolina (I'm in the Marine Corps. Texas boy originally.) I used some 1/4" Luan? plywood from Lowe's and I'm noticing some edge deterioration after multiple uses that causes me to use A LOT of sandpaper to even out my duplicate pieces. Not fun!!! At any rate, I don't have a bandsaw yet, only a jigsaw and lots of sandpaper and patience, and I need to find better template material for outside cuts using my handy-dandy 1/4"x1" bottom bearing laminate trimmer style bit on the table. At the current rate, my sandpaper bill may approach my car payment and my patience will run out with my poor templates and 3 kids. So, any advice would be taken with great joy!!

Josh


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Josh, I use 1/4" hardboard (Masonite or HDF) for most of my templates. This is the material they make pegboard from and that is another option. Other suitable products would include Plexiglas acrylic and some types of inexpensive panelling are laminated over MDF or HDF.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I use 9mm MDF which in your language is about 3/8" and easy to work with, if you look closely at the photo. you will see that the template is made up of four separate pieces glued together which would be difficult to do with thinner material. For templates which are to be in regular use I laminate both sides with Formica/Laminex.


----------



## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Mike, Harry thanks for the quick response. Great advice, I can't wait to get back to the hardware store to take a closer look at my options now. I must say that for a woodworking beginner like myself, this forum has in the 2 or 3 days now that I've actually been a member been outstanding. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to sharing my own advice when I become an "old pro" like some of you fine gentlemen.

Josh


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Josh

I also like to use 1/4" MDF but when I'm out or can't find it I use 1/2" or 3/4" MDF the router is very forgiving it doesn't care how thick the template is most of the time..

I'm not a not big fan of hardboard it's real hard on router bits and very hard to sand when you have a little nick to take out of the template, plus the template must be true without any errors in it..

Harry likes to cut the stock up and glue it up but I do like to use Bob & Ricks way of making templates, drop it over the bit on the router table and make the templates.
I think it's called the stick way,, see below, but both ways work very well..



===========


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The problem that I see with the four stick method is that it relies on pinning the sticks at right angles whereas with the fabricated method where the material is cut on the saw table, it has to fit together all square and in my usual humble opinion, it's a faster and safer method.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

The key to get the right hand angles is to use a square 

I like many wood workers have them in the shop, I have 3 on the work bench all the time, I do like the hvy.steel one ( 2",4", and the 6" one) _I like the mass plus they can and do stand up on edge work...

Plus if you want a wavy/curve line in the templates, it's easy to cut all 4 parts on the band saw at one time so they match and then tack them in place.

Plus you don't need to wait until the glue has set up or sand the glue off that came out of the joint on the bottom side of the templlate..  plus no clamping needed.. 





==========
_


harrysin said:


> The problem that I see with the four stick method is that it relies on pinning the sticks at right angles whereas with the fabricated method where the material is cut on the saw table, it has to fit together all square and in my usual humble opinion, it's a faster and safer method.


----------



## cbsjoez1935 (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Josh and welcome,

There are other types of material that may be suitable for your use. I caution you that they are pricey. 1/4" Baltic Birch plywood is one and 1/4" Phenolic is another. With the regular Lowes or HD plywood, you are going to get shredded edges unless when you first make the template you cover top and bottom with a formica type material, Just another way to skin the proverbial cat.

Joe Z.


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I have some 1/4" pergo flooring that makes great templates. Use whatever you have on hand.


----------



## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Every time I log onto routerforums.com, I am amazed at the level of helpfullness of the dedicated members. Having only become a member this month, and being a beginner at this, this resource has been phenomenal to me. Thank you for your advice and kudos to all of you who make it a regular priority to discuss these topics with "old pros" and beginners alike to further the art of woodworking. I'm gonna go hold my routers in my arms and cry now...kidding of course.

Thanks again,

Josh


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Yeah, that sounds like a Marine to me. Fly ARMY!


----------



## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Uh-oh, I'm tempted to start comparing services here...The jokes abound. I'll just keep it PC (politically correct not Porter Cable) though. All of the branches of the United States armed forces serve their purpose and their respective members do so proudly contrary to what the media would have you think with their sometimes very selective choices of interviews and quotes. I'm very proud to be a US Marine and have respect for my fellow service members in the other branches of the military as well. Of course the Marines do it the best. I had to.

Josh The Marine


----------



## TAJones (Dec 31, 2008)

If Lowes doesn't have try Homdepot, a lumber yard or use plastic cutting boards like use from Walmart or any store that has kitchen stuff...

Tom

QUOTE=mountain monkey;78830]Well, after reading a lot of posts, it seems I'm a young'n being only 27 compared to you old pros. And I say that with the upmost respect of course. Accordingly, I'm a beginner, but I'm learning fast. My question for you "old" guys is about material for templates. I'm just finishing a cradle for my 3rd child 2 weeks old today and I made a lot of templates for the different pieces. The problem I am having is that I cannot find the 1/4" MDF that I would love to use anywhere around me in Eastern North Carolina (I'm in the Marine Corps. Texas boy originally.) I used some 1/4" Luan? plywood from Lowe's and I'm noticing some edge deterioration after multiple uses that causes me to use A LOT of sandpaper to even out my duplicate pieces. Not fun!!! At any rate, I don't have a bandsaw yet, only a jigsaw and lots of sandpaper and patience, and I need to find better template material for outside cuts using my handy-dandy 1/4"x1" bottom bearing laminate trimmer style bit on the table. At the current rate, my sandpaper bill may approach my car payment and my patience will run out with my poor templates and 3 kids. So, any advice would be taken with great joy!!

Josh[/QUOTE]


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Check on 1/4" Masonite.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Josh,
i live in south Georgia. we only have a lowes in my town. i looked for 1/4 mdf and they didnt have it. i was able to find 24'' x 48'' mdf in 1/4 and 1/2 inch at home depot.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys


I also like to use 1/4" thick MDF but 3/4" thick MDF works very well also..
The 3/4" MDF works great because many of the brass guides are longer than 1/4" long..

see below..

==========


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

bobj,is it as easy to make the double pocketholes as it would seem?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

Duck soup  

===



levon said:


> bobj,is it as easy to make the double pocketholes as it would seem?


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i tried my new Kreg today, its so simple , and i thrive on simple!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Levon

I agree , it's one of the quickest ways to make a wood joint, plus it fun to drill the holes   LOL LOL , a small note about 3/4" MDF if you use it for templates,face frames, etc. use the fine thread pocket holes screws and stay away from the ends of the stock and you will not split the MDF out...

=======



levon said:


> i tried my new Kreg today, its so simple , and i thrive on simple!


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

lol, i know. i thought i was so cool drilling a hole like that, lol. but seriously, thanks for the info on the fine thread screws and the end grain on mdf.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bob I always use the coarse threads for ply and mdf they bite better and fine threads for hardwoods. 
Never had an issue. 

If you use glue with the mdf it virtually melts together. Just stay away from the edge when using the pocket screws on mdf.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick 

That's true, the coarse threads do hold better but they like to split the MDF in a heart beat if you screw it into the side of MDF...the fine thread is just a little bit smaller at the thread shank ,,,that's if you use the pocket way of making the joint...

Try this just for a quick test, put in a pocket hole or two and then screw in some coarse thread pocket screws, then do the same thing but this time use the fine thread pocket screws, but set the drill down to about 6 or 8 so it can't strip the screws out but still pull the joint up tight..a little bit of glue also helps stop the split and let it dry b/4 you take off the holding clamp.

Nick
" virtually melts together " ??????,,, once it splits it's split  


====


======



nickao65 said:


> Bob I always use the coarse threads for ply and mdf they bite better and fine threads for hardwoods.
> Never had an issue.
> 
> If you use glue with the mdf it virtually melts together. Just stay away from the edge when using the pocket screws on mdf.


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I've always predrilled the holes before securing with screws. Never had an issue with it. Now, when you get to close to the end.... that's another story.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I just meant that when gluing MDF together it almost melts together and usually when you try to break it, it does not break at the joint. Nothing really about the splitting. To close to the edge and the MDF splits.

I guess my point about the melting together was that it is worth gluing all the joints when using pocket screws, especially when using MDF because the mdf does take glue and adds strength to that pocket screw joint.

I have gotten away with no glue using pocket screws in hardwood and even ply when I want to be able to take something apart, but I would not try that with MDF and pocket screws.


----------



## wil141 (Feb 14, 2007)

hi josh, i live in texas ,i bought 1/4 " mdf yesterday at lowe's 6.49 a sheet


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

I was thinking about making up some templates for a project. And my question has to do with minimum thickness for bearing guided template routing. 1/8", 3/16 or 1/4"?

To that end, I have on hand quite a bit of 1/16" FR4 material used for making circuit boards. This is a fiberglass material with none, one or two sides laminated with a thin layer of copper. I have a small CNC machine (http://www.lpkfusa.com/protomat/index.htm if your are interested but mine is an old model I picked up as non-working and rebuilt) intended for prototyping circuit boads and it can cut patterns from this material in short order. Since I can let the software step-and-repeat a pattern on the blank I could make 2, 3 or 4 identical templates and laminate them together. 2-part epoxy works great on FR4.

I realize the fiberglass could be rough on the router bit if I miss-align the bearing but maybe not much worse than MDF. The CNC mill uses HSS tooling for all cutting operations.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

1/8" I have used and its just to thin if you ever wanted to use a bearing guided bit with it.

So for bearing guided use 1/4". You will have more play on the height adjustment(more for the bearing to ride on this way).

I like to leave the possibility for bearing guided bits open even though I prefer template guides. I like 1/4" templates, but even then sometimes the template guide hits the wood so I either sand down the guide or go to a thicker template if I need to keep the guide as is.


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi rw,

I need to agree with Nick. 1/4" is the better choice. Some even go as 1/2" & 3/4", overkill IMHO. I like a sturdy template but, not a heavy one.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I must agree with you both I like to use 1/4" also but sometimes it best to use 1/2" thick MDF, many of the guides are longer than a 1/4" 

I have reworked many of my guides just because of that..but most don't have extra guides that they can cut down to 1/4" long..once cut that's it.


=====



Hamlin said:


> Hi rw,
> 
> I need to agree with Nick. 1/4" is the better choice. Some even go as 1/2" & 3/4", overkill IMHO. I like a sturdy template but, not a heavy one.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

True, sand down a template guide and they probably are not getting used for dovetails.

I have recently been gathering up all my guides Bob and I think I can give you a run for the money. I'll post a pic when I get them all organized.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

I'm sure you will beat me I don't have that many ..

======



nickao65 said:


> True, sand down a template guide and they probably are not getting used for dovetails.
> 
> I have recently been gathering up all my guides Bob and I think I can give you a run for the money. I'll post a pic when I get them all organized.


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes I understand that a guide collar can be quite tall but I am talking about bearing guided templates, that is to say a pattern bit. I guess I didn't make that clear in my post. Sorry about that.

It sounds like 1/4" is the general consensus. Since my CNC machine can do step-and-repeat cutting but cannot handle material thicker than about 3/32" I will have it make me 4 identical copies from 1/16" material and then I'll laminate them to 1/4". I think it will be faster to do this than to hand cut and sand a single pattern. Once set up, the machine runs autonomously.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

You were clear I just added the template guide info.

What is the CNC for that it can only cut 3/32" ?


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Follow the link in my post from above. It is designed for making prototype circuit boards. The Z-axis travel is quite limited. However its X and Y accuracy are on the order of 2mil and the repeatability is around 4mil. mil = 1/1000" inch, not metric.

Mine looks like the one in the middle of the page but is an older model. I rescued it from a company I did some consulting work for. All it needed was some TLC and one new stepper motor control cable. The cable had worn through as it rubbed inside the upper housing. I've gotten a lot of good use from it making small one-off protype circuit boards. The best thing is the turn around time is short so for some clients I could have a finished design tested by the end of one working day. Some companies are quite happy to pay big $$$ for that service. 

p.s. the other thing it excels at is cutting prototype circuits for RF and microwave systems (communications, not cooking). In the magical world of electromagnetics, being able to prototype a circuit where the copper has a square side cut down to the substrait is a big plus. Etched prototypes tend to have angled walls (typically undercut) and at high frequencies, because the copper becomes an active part of the circuit, controlling the geometry is key.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That's cool, wish I had one when I was designing circuits for projects in class. It would have been nice to make up a circuit board instead of using a bread board for the final projects.

I have to make the templates old school, sanders, jig saw, etc.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

*Sempr Fi*

First of all, Thank you for your service! Myself, I wasn't in the military. I served in the Air Force.

While searching HD and Lowes for some 1/4" MDF, to which I was going to laminate some Formica or, like material, I found full sheets of 1/4" already coated on one side with PVC(?). Like shelving material but, 1/4". 

Since it was for a table for a sand flee like sander, it needed to remain dead flat so, I was concerned about the coating lifting or chipping at the edges of a cut. Didn't happen. I am going to use this material for templates from now on.

Gene


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

nickao65 -

Since you do inlay work, here is a link you might appreciate
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/749

These guys do custom laser cutting in acrylic and other materials including wood. The acrylic material might be suitable for templates. I have not used them for parts with interior cut-outs but I did use them for some display bezels with laser etched portions and they looked great. 

For the price and what we wanted, it was quite reasonable after shopping it around a little bit.


----------

