# Lesson Learned



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Awhile back I made a monster truck bank for my grandson. It's OK, but really what I was after. Picture one. So sketched up another one, came out pretty good. But, then I decided to make a big monster truck design, like about 23 3/4" long, and 12" tall. Picture two. Put in a LOT of time on this one, in fact 'finished' it about nine times in all. Printed out a copy, to compare it to my small sketch. Wonder of wonders, the two were very close to the same size, and looks loads better than my first sketch, and totally scaled to my big design. 

Years ago I made a very nice wood piggy bank. Spent a huge amount of time and thinking on the inside, around the coin slot, developing a shape that would allow easy removal of change by turning it upside down, and shaking. Well, my now ex-dau-in-law apparently put in a fifty cent piece and wanted to retreive it. Instead of shaking it, she used a electric carving knife to enlarge the hole, effectively ruining a very nice build. I actually made the masters to make another, and had started on it, then decided I didn't like the design that much. So, spent a good amount of time and came up with a design I really liked, 7 1/2" long, about 5 3/4" tall. Then decided I wanted a large version, huge really. It would be about 23 3/4" long, and about 15" tall, which is three time larger, then my present design, plus however wide I finally decide on. The first issue is, I need a larger piece of cardboard to sketch it out on. Second is, to get an accurate scale up, I'll need to make about a 1" graph over my design, then a 3" graph on the cardboard, to accurately scale up the design. I just hope it turns out well. And/or, I may just make a design twice the size of my present design, with 2" graph. 

Lesson learned: If I'm going to make more than one size of whatever I design, make the large version first, then by taking a photo and printing it, I will also have a small version, exactly to scale.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

where did-she get a fifty cent piece have not seen one in years?


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

If you don't want DIL ruining them you have two possible choices: 1)Make a trap door for coin removal or 2) Hide her electric carving knife.
Do you paint them, or stain? I'd like to see a finished one.


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

The ones we made had a hole in the bottom and we put in a cork


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm thinking have the backside screwed on so that the money can be removed .
I also thinking some plexiglass would be neat , maybe have the money go down some internal visible ramps


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

I have used this free pattern provided by Steve Good to make a couple of plywood scrap piggy banks.

http://www.stevedgood.com/piggybank.pdf

I take the pattern and blow it up to 180% which fills a printed sheet of paper.

It uses four pieces of 3/4" with a piece cut in one for the slot at the top. However, it makes a 3/4 wide slot, which I feel is to wide. I, also, don't like the way the plexiglass screws to the front and back (as I did).

I think that I would substitute a piece of 1/4-1/2" plywood for the slot section and place it between the two inner sections. In addition, I would consider routing out an inset on the inside of the two outside pieces and mount the plexi on the inside. I would, also, use a thicker plexi. At the time it is what I had available.

If I make the make the mods I will have to integrate a means to empty the bank.

This is basically what it looks like.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

no wonder she's your EX-DIL...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

You can get 50 cent pieces at a bank. Also 1.00 dollar coins, 2 dollar bills, etc. I've got a few 50 cent pieces stuck away.

The bank will have a piece in the bottom to get to the coins. 

I don't finish these at all, I figure the new owner can decorate them as they want. 

Plexiglass does not float my boat at all.

I make my own designs - do a lot of research beforehand, but don't work with plans by other people.

Yeah, she is not the biggest people person in the world.

Found cardboard for my biggest piggy bank design. The back of the cardboard I have the monster truck bank on. I'll have to make a graph on it, and go from there. When I finish it, or before, I will be able to just layout the truck design on wood. But the pig will need to be cut out, and traced around. I may use the other piece of cardboard to make a intermediate size pig, still undecided on that, don't know if I want to do the extra work or not.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Theo, is she the same one that kept trying to cut hot dogs on your tablesaw?

Just kidding,

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

If she'd wanted to cut hotdogs on my saw, doubt I'd have tried to talk her out of it.

Well, have the monster truck design in my bedroom, where I can see it first thing in the morning, and last thing at night. Haven't made any changes at all on it in days and days, so I'd say it is good to go. I'll be putting an opening in the bottom, with only one bolt, similar to picture 1.

Picture 2 is the piggy bank I designed. Looked at again after the truck design, and it wasn't quite what I wanted, so redo, picture 3. Turned out that didn't hack it, so redid that, picture 4. You can see the 1" graph lines I put on it so I could upscale it to twice size. Picture 5, is the double size design, you can see the 1" graph lines if you look close. It came out almost perfect scale, except for one line on the front that needed to be about 1/4" further forward. Then I notice that the snout was not quite right, but it was scaled to the small design, so had to redo that on both designs. Got the 3" graph laid out on another piece of cardboard, and hope to get to that in a day or two. I've found this a quite accurate way to scale up a design, with minimum fuss; figure it would down scale also, but no need to try that. Same method I used in scaling up 2 or 3" tall photos, into 48" tall reindeer patterns - don't recall what size graph I used, but quite possible 1/4" and 4", respectively. 

Been way too involved with life lately to get back in the shop, and at this point, can't really say when I will. Hot water went out 2 days ago, need to jump my Jeep first start of the day, no idea what is happening with that, nor were the techs able to find anything. Fortunately for me, just got one of those little jump box starters, and it works like a charm, small enough to keep in the glove box if wanted even. Then there's the big issues. Bah. Humbug. Could be worse.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Couldn't figure out anyway to edit, so where I said 1" graph lines on the intermediate size pig, should be 2".

OK, laid out the 3" graph lines for the BIG pig, and got it pretty well laid out. Didn't lay it out quite as planned, so had to tape a strip of cardboard along the top. But, all in all, came out quite accurate. Got to go over it in a couple of places where I was looking in the wrong place apparently when I sketched out those lines. That, and will need to take off about 1/8" from the legs, and 1/4" or so from the bottom of the body, that will shorten the whole thing just enough to fit the cut wood. I thought about an intermediate size truck bank too, but decided against it. But eventually there will be three pig banks. I saved some photos when I was researching pig ears, to change my design. When I got thru I discarded at least two dozen pictures - I do a lot of researcing.

I don't know if I'll be posting any photos in the foreseeable future of any of this. My computer has taken it upon itself to not post all of the photos I have saved. It allows access to all of them, after a fashion, but posting them is mostly a no-no. Can't spare the money for a new computer just now, so looks like there won't be any photos posted for awhile. And just now the damn thing sent me to another page, just fortunate it didn't discard any of this.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Still learning. Among other things I learned I like cardboard for when I upsize 
one of my designs. I can hold it at any angle, sketch on it, use masking tape 
to cover errors, can't do any of that with paper. I make my final lines with 
dry erase fine point pens, and found they work just as well as magic marker felt 
tip pens, and cost significantly less. I started both my pig and monster truck 
bank design on 8X11 1/4" graph paper, love that stuff. 

The pig on paper is just right, so that's ready to glue onto wood, and cut out, 
making a master to make my masters with. What that means is, the master master 
has the ears, snout etc., on it, so I'll make that perfect. Then I'll use that 
to rout out my three actual working masters. On one I'll take off the ears, 
feet, tail, and snout - that will be the master for the outsize piece, but I 
will also cut out the center, as this will also be the master for the inner 
spacers. The next one in will have the snout and tail removed, leaving the ears 
and feet. And the third will have the feet and ears taken off, leaving the 
snout and tail. And, if I screw one of these up, I will have the master master 
to rout out another. It's nowhere near as complicated as it probably sounds. I 
decided that I'd go for a middle size pig, about 15.5" long, and a large pig, 
23.5" long. Later found out that both of the drawn out designs on cardboard are 
a bit shorter than I had planned. Don't really know how that happened, but very 
simple to fix. I'll be cutting the designs out, laying them on wood, trace 
around them, then cut them out. To lengthen them all I will need to do is mark 
out 23.5", move the pig's rear up to one line, trace half of the pig, then move 
the front up to the other line, again trace half the pig. Then just go over the 
lines and sketch the joint by hand. No problem. 

I was going to just make a small monster truck bank, nicely done on graph paper. 
Then decided to go with a big one, 23.5" again. Found out I have that one 1/4" 
too tall, and a tad short. Again, simple fix. Then decided to go for a middle 
size too. The middle size one is laid out on graph paper, surprisingly simple 
to do, and because the paper is shorter than my bank, the design is too short. 
Again, this will be extremely simple to make right on the wood. 

So I wound up with three pig sizes, and three monster truck sizes. Neat. I had 
a cut list I have been using for years, that worked well for me. But when I was 
deciding my bank sizes found that cut list wouldn't work on these. But 
surprisingly, all I had to do was change the cut widths by 1/4", and came out 
perfect. However, there is always a however, found out that both the big pig, 
and the middle size, truck will take wood 11 7/8" wide, while the cut list will 
be 9 3/4". 

I have the feeling that the little pig will be the moneymaker, can make a fair 
number out of a sheet of plywood, and sell them relatively inexpensively. The 
big pig now, that will take a whole sheet of plywood to make one, at 10" wide, 
and I'm going to have to ask a goodly amount for them if I want to make any 
profit. I figure I'm going to make at least one, just for the fun of it. I'm 
still trying to figure out how much the capacity would be, and think it will be 
about 6 gallons of mixed coins. If so, that should be around at least $2000 in 
coins, at something like 300 lbs, if I recall right. 

Speaking of mixed coins, I got curious about how much my banks would hold. So 
went to google. It is amazing how many people who supposedly have advanced 
degrees are really stupid. A lot of them go by the volume of individual coins, 
the volume of a gallon, then figure out how many mixed coins will fit in a 
gallon, without allowing for spaces between the coins. Plus, they don't actually 
know how many different coins there would be. Then there are others who do not 
include pennies, others do not include quarters. Estimates of how much a gallon 
of mixed coins would be varied from around $200 to $800+. All of this from 
people who tried to push their intelligence out there. Hah. 

Well, I'm checking the results myself, still ongoing. Found out there are 128 
oz in a gallon, which divides by 8. Cut a plastic cup to hold 8 oz. So far 
I've counted out three 8 oz cups of mixed coins, from my change I get every day. 
First cup was $20.42, second was $23.09, and the third was $16.52, for an 
average of $19.99. Interesting difference between results, because I tried to 
fill each cupful exactly the same, or as close as reasonable. I'll be doing 
several more cups, to see if the average holds, or changes. Some of the 
"Einsteins" thought the totals would be the same every time, amusing. If my 
average holds, then a gallon of mixed coins should be around $319.84. Still 
working on weights.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I recently converted near a gallon of coins to $417 to kickstart my band saw fund. 

Thanks for the discussion of how you design your projects. I have an 11x17 pad of 1/4 inch grid that I like to use, along with a cheap set of plastic drafting tools. I like to draw several views on the same sheet. It helps work out dimensions. I have found that getting the outside dimensions can be based on a design, but the interior parts must be hand fitted most of the time, and that is often done with a very sharp block plane. Cut a little oversize and shave a little at a time to fit. 

I have not yet fiddled with design software, but it is interesting to see the projects designed on it by some of our members.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> I recently converted near a gallon of coins to $417 to kickstart my band saw fund.
> 
> Thanks for the discussion of how you design your projects. I have an 11x17 pad of 1/4 inch grid that I like to use, along with a cheap set of plastic drafting tools. I like to draw several views on the same sheet. It helps work out dimensions. I have found that getting the outside dimensions can be based on a design, but the interior parts must be hand fitted most of the time, and that is often done with a very sharp block plane. Cut a little oversize and shave a little at a time to fit.
> 
> I have not yet fiddled with design software, but it is interesting to see the projects designed on it by some of our members.




Yeah, no way do I consider my gallon $ figure as actually accurate, too many 
variables for that. Depends on where you buy, what you buy, how many you buy, 
then what change you get. Still, I think it's interesting enough to measure out 
a few more cups, and get the average. 

No prob, I'm so used to how I do things, sometimes I wonder if I explain things 
clearly to others. Where'd you get the pad? The only size I've found is 8X11, 
would love to have a larger pad. The only tool I use, besides a mechanical pan 
and a good eraser, is a ruler. I can measure by counting the squares, but it's 
usually faster with a ruler. Any curves I sketch freehand. If my page has room 
for more than one sketch, it gets it. All my stuff, the interior is empty, 
they're banks after all. For those I just put in the wall thickness, 1/2", or 
3/4", depending on how I feel at the moment. The inside of the master master is 
the only one I am actually concerned with, the inside of it is taken down to the 
inside line, and smoothed, so the walls are the same all around. Then when I 
make a copy, I just drill a couple of holes in the inside, rough cut with a 
sabre saw, tack the master down, and rout the inside of the copy; comes out 
identical to the master. Manual CNC. LOL 

My design software is my brain. To me, design software would pretty much take 
the fun out of it all for me. But when I start a new project, I do a heap of 
googling images of whatever. Right now I just googled a load of eagles, with 
banner, and shield. I posted a picture of the iggle I did years ago, and think 
it would make a great house number sign. Dunno yet if I'll just copy it, or 
take a bit from an eagle I found, a bit from another, and so on. I pretty much 
copy an occasional photo, drawing them out, but drawings I only use for 
inspiration, and don't copy them. Supposedly if you make seven changes in a 
drawing, then it is considered new work, and not copying someone elses. Doesn't 
quite work that way with me, last I checked, I had eleven changes from one of my 
inspirations, and you couldn't even tell what the original work was. Actually, 
it was from a photograph of a Northwestern Indian, taken in about 1911 or so. 
Sure didn't turn out anything like his picture, that's for sure. He'll become a 
five foot tall cigar store Indian bank, once I get a few technical details 
ironed out. 

Been thinking too much. Was wondering how I'd get the 7" wheels I'd decided would be good for my big monster truck bank. Got a 6 1/4" hole saw, so finally figured I'd have to go with that. Then it hit me, rough cut a circle, drill a hole in the center, bolt thru the hole, electric drill, power sander, and I can make a master whatever size I want. No prob on wheels now. Then it hit me how to make a very simple 'panel saw'. But not a lot of shop room, so may have to make a short version, 48", but that's no problem, because anymore I would have major issues trying to handle a full sheet of plywood anyway. Then it hit me that I could use the center cutout from my big pig, and use it to make the middle size pig, then the inside of the middle pig, to make small pigs. Been pondering the bottom hole of the banks to get the money out, was figuring I'd need to make a master to get the right size, which would be a bit of a PITA. But then I realized, I could just use the piece I will be cutting out anyway, and can use it; another step or two done away with. 

I've made kid's puzzle rocking chairs for years; just now remodding the arms. Awhile back ran across a picture of a arts and craft rocker, from around the 1900-1920 period, and decided to make an adult size puzzle rocker. The kid chair is 1/2" plywood, and is very strong, I can stand on the seat and it doesn't even creak. Figured the adult chair will need at least 3/4" plywood, so the first one I make will be from 3/4" plyood, and will be making a 1" thick master for this. Problem is, I also want to make a wider one, for those endowed with really wide hips, so the 3/4" may not be sufficient. Problem found, problem solved, if the 3/4" won't cut it, will go to two layers of 1/2" plywood glued together, and it will be only a minor issue to change the slots on the master from 3/4" to 1", just need to be careful with my cutting. 

CNC? CNC? Don' need no steenkin' CNC. :laugh2: Gads, I do like woodworking.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I like your approach to design. I usually start with a freehand sketch and then switch to either CAD or SketchUp.

Here is one source for pads of 11x17 graph paper, just do a search for "11x17 graph paper"

https://www.amazon.com/Bienfang-Designer-11-Inch-17-Inch-Section/dp/B001KZH2DM

You can also buy in larger sizes, and even on a roll https://www.amazon.com/Alvin-Quadrille-Paper-Inches-1432-11/dp/B000HF6ZS4


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I'll just stick to freehand, a lot faster and easier to make changes. Plus, I don't know how those work, and don't really care. One thing I found tho, what what I consider the ultimate eraser. Some years back I wanted to make some custom rubber stamps, so went shopping for appropriate material. This seemed like the best buy. Speedball Speedy-Cut Carving Blocks - BLICK art materials Well, it crumbled when I went for really fine detail. Bah. But somehow I used a piece as an eraser. Fantastic. By the time you get a sheet cut to eraser size it is so much cheaper than buy even medium quality erasers from a store, and work so much better than the expensive erasers. I gave a container of them to my grand-daughter, she's into art and drawing, and kept enough to probably last me thru my next half dozen reincarnations. Oh yeah, got several option I will be trying for stencils later on that should give me all the detail I need.

Figuring out a glue up jig for my banks just now. I know what I want, but I also want it to tip back, which is not a problem. The issue is, to get it to tip to the end at the same time. I can hack it, but want something a bit more 'classy' than a hack. Once I get the pieces cut out, the jig should hold them in proper alignmen while the glue sets, and supposedly will ghen require minimal sanding for a smooth finish.

Speaking of gluing, some of my project I don't bother clamping, just set them down, with a weight on top to provide pressure, and have been known to not use even a weight. Have never had a glue problem. Only have a limited supply of weights tho. This hit me the other day. Could use a piece of plywood as a base, then several more layers of plywood. Waste of good plywood tho. Instead, I'll use a plywood base, then glue a layer of small pieces of plywood, the ones that would normally be tossed. Put them together at the edge, then rout to mach the base. Repeat with the small pieces, until I get enough layers to give me the weight I want. Right now using them in a weight is the only use I can think of, but I am pretty sure I'll come up with something else to use them for too.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I have really got to get on top of things, and get in some shop time. But there's so much to get on top of, seems like a losing battle. I've gotten so bonkers since I designed my three monster truck banks, and pig banks, small, medium, and two footers, I'm seriously considering designing a four foot version of each. Even worse, starting to think about making one of them my first priority once I do get back in the shop. I've got it figured out that if I do the monster truck at four foot, to do it 'right' it will take five full sheets of plywood, and the pig will take six full sheets. Granted, it will give lots of usable pieces of lefetover plywood, but even so, it will cost probably at least $170 to make one, and to make money on one I'd have to sell for probably around $300. I really need to stick to the small versions, but it is so tempting to make a four foot piggy bank. Hehehe :grin:


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Trouble. Been thinking again. Figured out that with my medium size pig bank, I can use the cutout inside to make three small pieces for either my small pig, or small truck. Got to thinking more, and figured out how with a minimum of tweaking, mostly making slightly smaller versions of the pig and truck, I can now get four pieces. 

That's great, but then it struck me that if I make either of those out of a 'new' piece of plywood, I will be generating a lot of pieces that aren't banks. And that means I will have to retain my old small bank plans too. Which means I will have four masters for each type of bank, and five each, if you count the four foot version I am thinking of. I realllly need to get in the shop again.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OhhhKay. I really, really, need to get out in the shop soon. Looking at my designs and deciding what needed to be tweaked, noticed something. My plywood will be sliced into four foot lengths, 9 7/8" wide, and 11 7/8" wide, which will allow me to use just those two sizes for all my pig and truck designs. But the old small designs were not quite the right size to cut out without wasting more wood than I wanted to lose. Back to thinking. The end result is, I now have five piggy bank designs, and five monster truck designs. This does NOT include the two four foot designs I am pondering. I want to sell these banks eventually, so looks like I'll have to make one of each size, of each type, total of ten banks, to see how they look, and see which are popular with people, meaning saleable. I really need to concentrate more, a lot more, a whole lot more, on getting my outside things solved or sorted out, and get back in the shop. I've got enough plywood stock to last me for awhile, and should be wide enough for the wider designs, and I'll just have to swallow losing the extra stock from the narrower designs; altho I will likely be saving it, as I believe I will have a use for it later. Fortunately, well actually I planned it this way, the only piece of each master that has to be really good, is just the first piece. All the other pieces will be routed out and tweaked as necessary, to make perfect clone copies.

Almost forgot. Now need to figure out how thick each bank size will need to be, to keep it looking good, and still as much in scale as reasonable. The smallest banks will be four inches wide, which means each one will take eight pieces of 1/2" plywood to come up with the four inches. I figure that will look good, the coin area will be three inches wide, which will allow a three inch long slot for coins, that is wide enough to take bills too. I really don't want to make any the same width, but also need to take into account just how many inches I can make it, and not having to use a whole lot of wood to make it look good. Right now I'm thinking I may have to rout the piece out, then set them together to visualize just how they look with different numbers of pieces. That's Plan B right now, still working on Plan A.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, still working on getting in some shop time. But in the meantime, I'm having fun. First I tweaked my designs, then fine-tuned them. I over tuned them maybe, because now I have eight truck designs, of different lengths, and eight for the pig designs. From 6.5" by 3.75" to 47.5" by 23.5". The great thing about these two designs is, it is extremely easy to upsize, or downsize, the designs. I don't actually intend to make at least one of each size, but it has been interesting designing them. Instead I figure I will make two, possibly three, pig banks, likely no larger than 15.75" by 9.25", and the same number truck banks, no larger than 15.75" by 6.5"; possibly a few inches less..

I think the pig is a nice design, but in the real world I'm thinking that the monster truck will sell better. I checked prices on Etsy, for similar items, and I was astonished at the prices asked, overall considerably higher than I would ever consider asking for my work. Just because something is handmade, doesn't mean it's worth more, but some people seem to think so. Right now I'm thinking maybe $20-25 for my 15.75" pig, and a few $ more for the truck - the truck uses more material, and more labor time. The smaller ones will be a bit less. But if someone ever wants either 47.75" bank, it will cost them big time; loads of material, and I'm thinking considerable labor time. Even the 23.5" ones will call for a pretty stiff cost. But, who knows, I would definitely like to make a 2, 3, or 4 foot bank, just for the Hell of it. 
:grin:

Oh yeah, I'm thinking of leaving them unfishished, and if the new owner wants them decorated or painted, they can do it themselves. Optionally, I'm thinking of finished them with thinned layers of Titebond II, which probably won't take paint well at all, but magic workers work excellently.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm even better than I thought. I've been pondering on how wide to make my monster truck banks. They're very vaguely patterned after the Grave Digger monster truck. So I printed out a photo of the front of it, and started measuring. I was very surprised. My design is almost exactly the same size as the photo, and in some portions, exactly the same size. And when I say almost exactly the same size, I'm talking maybe 1/16" or 1/8", it's that close. It is surprising because I didn't take any measurements before I started drawing out the designs, it was all freehand, with just ruler used, and I just made changes until it looked good. The one I was working on and measured is the 9.25" X 4" body and plan on making 4" thick. I'm going with 3" tall tires on it, and even those came out the same. And, yes, the photo of the body is 4" wide. Not real sure if the other size banks are as close to scale, but they look it, so I won't worry about them. Now just need to go over them, and calculate the appropriate body with of each - I figure close enough is going to be good enough on the rest of them.

During all this, I googled wood monster truck bank, and accidently ran across my 2013 monster truck build thread. http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/40823-wood-monster-truck-bank.html It includes a bit on the pig bank I had made, and my now ex dau-in-law hacked up. Still a bit bitter about that. In the thread I mentioned using four bolts to hold the bottom coin hatch on, then went to two in the grandson's bank. My next design went down to one bolt, with a bit of fancy woodworking holding the other end of the hatch in place. All fine and good, but I've been trying to figure out for awhile now how to have 100% wood in my banks. Thought up a few Rube Goldberg ideas, that would work, but didn't thrill me. But when I re-read that thread, something struck me, and I realized just how to make the coin hatch, keeping it simple, and about impossible to tell where it would be. After several sketches, I should have the details pretty well worked out. It does involve making one more master pattern, making a total of five masters, six if you include the one for the wheels. The bank will be 4" wide, making the interior space 3" wide. The coin slot will be 3" wide also. So, I will remod the first inside master, making a 1" wide slot, eliminating the top of the master. The new master will be 3" wide, with a leg that will slide inside the slot of the other master. This will be the new top that was eliminated on the other master. It will be very difficult to pull off from the top, especially if you don't know it is there. But turn the bank upside down, and it will slide out of the slot, dumping the coins. I'll have to do each design separately, but with one done, the others will be no prob to do.

Next step is figuring out just how to do the same idea with my pig bank designs. That'll be a bit trickier, because I'm not sure if I can conceal the end opposite the coin slot. But I figure any sane person will have the pig facing out, so they won't be looking at the pig's rear, so problem solved. Hehehe

Next step is figuring out pricing of each individual size. I figure more people are going to want a monster truck bank than will want a pig bank, so the trucks will be a few $ more than the pigs, plus the trucks will take more wood, and time. The way it looks now, I probably won't be making anything larger than the 11.75" designs. Anything larger than that, the profit margin drops very fast, and considerable more wood needed. For example, the 15.75" truck will take an entire sheet of plywood, to make just two banks. Yes, I will be able to salvage the material cut out of the interior and use it for smaller banks, but I am not counting that. You count material cost, time making, et al, at $50 per bank, means just $100 per sheet of plywood. Not much profit in that. Big however tho, I'm thinking of making one or two of the large size banks, post the price prominently on them, like the 27.5 truck bank will take a sheet of plywood for just one, so figure a price of $100. I am thinking that people will see the price on the big one, and it will make them a lot more ready to shell out $15 or $20 for my two smallest designs. That should be where the money is, selling a lot at a lower price. The littler designs not only take less wood to make, they take a lot less time too.

Right now I figure $15 for the 6.5" truck, $20 for 7.75", $25 for 9.25", $35 for 11.75", $50 for 15.75", $100 for 23.75", $200 for 37.75", and $300 for 47.75". For the pig banks I figure $10 for 6.5", $15 for 7.75", $20 for 9.25", $25 for 11.75", $35 for 15.75", $50 for 23.75", $75 for 35.75", and $100 for 47.75". None of these prices are cast in stone, all are subject to change. I checked Etsy prices before I came up with these prices, and judging by what some of those people are asking they must be making their stuff out of exotic imported wood, either that or they think handmade is Latin for jack the price up, way up.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

*Keep It Simple, Stupid!*

OK, had come up with a no metal coin hatch. Should have remembered one of my favorite sayings, Keep It Simple, Stupid. The first picture is what I came up with. Probably confuse most, if not all of you. No problem, it's a bit tricky to understand, and would have been a bit tricky to make, especially since I would have had to custom size that design change to every different size truck bank, and really would have been complex with my pig banks.

But, this morning I came up with a very uncomplicated solution, and it can be used with the trucks or pigs, no problem. That is the second picture. My original plan was to cut a hole in the bottom of the banks, then make a part to fit in the hole, and held on one in by a bolt. The simple solution is, cut the hole, probably at least 3" x 6", glue a slightly longer piece on top of the cutout piece, and rest the longer piece on the inside of the hole, with the cutout plugging the hold and keeping the top piece from shifting. Turn the bank upside down and the plug drops in, you can either leave it in, or simply reach in and remove it, turn the bank back right side up and empty it, then finagle the plug back in - easiest with the bank right side up. Then start the saving process all over again. This is going to be faster for me to make, take less wood, do away with metal in the bank, and make me happy.

I do have one more minor issue with making the banks, but thought of the solution to that today too. The only actual change I will have to make is a slight modification to one master, no need to make a complete other master. Yay. Still working out some minor details on this one, could actually use the idea as is, but want to 'streamline' it a tad anyway.

Both of these solutions are really stupid simple, but will make things so much less frustrating, faster, easier, and save wood a bit of wood to boot. Zen woodworking. Oops, almost forgot to add the pictures. The first picture is the truck mod, and the second is the pig.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Been doublechecking my bank designs. Found out some of them were a tad off, so been fine tuning the designs. Kind of amazing how much difference even 1/8" will make at time. I may have gone a bit overboard, winding up with eight designs for the two styles of banks. I will NOT be making a four foot monster truck bank, except by special order, and if I ever do I am going to ask for $500 for it; because it will very likely be a PITA to make, and will take three sheets of plywood. 

Speaking of pricing. I figured $10 for the smallest pig bank, because I can get a whole lot of them out of a sheet of plywood, but mostly because I can just use the wood cut out from the center of my other banks, essentially free material for them. I'm thinking I'll probably leave the price at that, unless I get swamped with requests for them, in which case I'll up the price just enough where people will still buy them, but not bury me in labor making more. I figure upping the price on the pigs $5 for each larger size until I get to about mid size, then bumping it up a bit more. 

I'd figured on $15 for my smallest truck banks, same reasoning as the pig banks. However, forgot the wheels. The truck I made for the grandson had smooth wheels, no tread. On these I figure on making "treads" on the wheels. It takes time to make the smooth wheels, but the tires with treads will take considerable more time to make. This means that $15 per bank may not be going to be worth the time and effort, so now have to rethink the price on the trucks. The small truck will probably only hold 2-3 cups of coins, but it's 'cute', not priced very high, so I think it would sell well; and it's a lot easier to sell a hundred of something for a $1 each, than it is to sell one thing for $100. I don't really like to, but may have to bump the price up to $20, the next size to $25, and so on. Actually, the next size bank I think will sell well with it's present projected price of $20, can get almost as many out of a sheet of plywood, and holds more than the small bank. Don't much like the idea, but may have to drop the small bank entirely. Just have to make some and try selling them I guess. And I hate sales people, and really hate the thought of actually BEING a sales person. 
:crying:


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

In the routing wood gears thread I posted how I would do a similar job. Here is what I posted.
"I will be making tires/wheels for my monster truck bank projects. And routing tread on them. I started by drawing circle sizes I thought I would need on 1/4" graph paper. Then guided by the compass point dent, using a ruler, drew a line up the paper, and across. Then measured the distance between the lines, at the largest circle. Then marked that at the halfway point, drew more lines. Same at each smaller circle. By looking it all looks evenly spaced, and didn't take long at all.

I will be making a fence for the router, probably a chunk of 2X4, with a notch cut just large enough to fit the 1/2" bit I use. The bit will stick out maybe 1/8". Almost forgot, will glue the paper to plywood, then turn to the largest line. I'll carefully line one of the pencil lines up with the bit, slide it forward until the fence stops the wheel, which should give a grove about 1/8", or slightly less, in the wheel - instant tread. Then repeat all around the wheel. Then nail that down to a piece of plywood that has been rough cut to a circle, then rout it, and instant treaded wheel. Sand the disc down to the next smaller line, repeat. Actually, the routed discs will be glued down, then routed out, giving me a 1" thick master. I muchly prefer the 1" masters, as it give more to grasp, and I think they are safer than thinner masters/templates. The finished wheels will be from 1" thick to probably 3".l Just route one 1/2" piece out, glue it to another piece, rout it. Then glue that to another piece, rout it. Repeat until you get the thickness you want. Oh yes, the master has a hole in the center to simulate a wheel. When I rout out the wheel I will not rout out the hole in the piece that goes inside. I don't know how accurate my way would be for gears, but for what I want it for, it should be more than adequate."

I took a picture of what I will be working from, not very good, my phone takes lousy photos at times. This make a bit clearer what I plan to do. Not gear making tho, I figure anywhere from about 1/16" to 1/8" deep. This will make the 'treads' on my truck tires.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, my laptop died. Screen went black, nothing. Pushed the power button, it came back on, then later went black again. And has stayed black. I'm on my backup laptop just now, a refurb I got off of evilBay awhile back. It works, but has Windows 10, which is really a hassle. Yesterday it lost several passwords for me, fortunately I had a few written down, and got most of the rest back. But still have not got one on a I guess you would say a disability forum - I'v e been posting there about designing a gas powered off-road power chair. My plan is to use it for cruising a local pick your part junkyard, and it is way to huge for me to take walking far in it. So, came up with a design from a three wheel ATV. Then came up with a simpler version. Then a simpler version. Then even simpler, with no welding. And yet again simpler. The latest version will have a wood 'floor' I guess you could say, and getting simple enough so even someone wheelchair bound could probably make one on his/her own - hope so anyway. And, no, I am not a wheelchair user.

Banks still proceeding, but shop time is not yet. You would think that the monster truck bank design would be the more troublesome, as it has five masters, plus the wheels, while the pig bank has only three masters. Well, the truth is, while the truck banks will involve a bit more work, and materials, they are simple to lay out, and being sort of to scale, I have five designs, ranging from 5.25 inches to 15.75 inches long, plus the 23.75 inch big truck - which I figure will be a large PITA to make, so while the smaller designs I think will be priced from $15 to $35, the Big Pig will be $150 - because I really don't want to make one.

The pig bank is a different matter. Amazingly simple to layout the design of one, around two minutes actually. But being not to any scale, just whatever looks good to me, just now I have eighteen designs, plus the 23.75 inch design - which will go for $125, because I don't want to do one of those either. Right now I'm putting those that are on cardboard onto paper, and when I get finished with that I will spread them out and compare them. Some of these are very close in size, some just look wrong, so most of the designs will be culled, and I am going to try to just keep around six designs. These will range from $10 each. They should be faster and easier than the truck banks to cut out and put together, so they start at $5 less than the trucks. But also, I'm thinking more people will want the trucks, but maybe won't feel like spending $5 more. This way I hope I can satisfy all. Those prices are not hard and fast tho. Just what I consider reasonable. Been looking on Etsy, to see if I'm in range with my projected prices, and apparently not. Going by the prices I've seen on Etsy for similar banks, but smaller capacity, I should charge a whole lot more. One small bank was something like $60, with slightly over $10 for shipping. I would be ashamed of myself if I asked that much for one of my smaller banks. Even my 15.75 inch truck bank I figure asking $35, I have several sizes of my 15.75 inch pig banks, but still figure $30 to $40 for those. No doubt about it, I definitely lack the moneymaking gene. 

And still life not letting me have shop time. Which is OK for now, as it allows me to sneak in time on these designs. 

Oh yeah, when my laptop went, I lost a whole lot of research. Fortunately everything essential for my cane designs is on paper, the banks are on paper too. Still, got a load of inspiration for other cane handle designs, some different banks, all my power chair info and research, all my boat and steam research, cars/trucks, and the list goes on. I'm hoping I will be able to yank the hard drive and hook it up to another computer (which reminds me, now I have to get another, 'cause this stupid Windows 10 laptop just isn't cutting it), and retrieve my info.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, still no shop time yet. Which sucks, but working on it.2

This has been very interesting. The truck banks are more complex, use more masters, but in their own way are simpler. I've got five trucks planned out. This is not including a 6th, very massive one I am finishing up. Nor the two foot or four foot banks. These three banks may, or may not, be made. They WILL cost more if I do make one, for example the four foot truck will be $600, mostly because I figure it will be a large PITA to make, besides taking more material, and the fact that I really don't want to make one.

The pig banks only need three masters, and the truck banks five. So you'd think the pigs would be simpler to finalize. Ain't happening. Had eighteen pigs drawn up, cut that down to I believe six. Then got them up to about nineteen. The thing is, they are so very easy to make different sizes, and still look good. But a lot of the designs turned out to be very inefficient in making use of the wood, so there would be a lot of wood left over on some. So, now, not including the two foot and four foot pigs, I have ten pig designs, which make maximum use of the wood. And I'll be sticking with these ten. Got the truck banks priced out, potential prices that is, may well sell poorly and have to reduce the prices; or might sell out immediately, meaning prices would have to be bumped up a bit. The pigs are a bit more difficult to price. More on pricing later, possibly another thread.

I've still got two or three truck designs to put on paper, rather than cardboard. By gluing the paper design on wood, it is much simpler to cut out the beginning of master making. No shop time yet, so figure might as well fine tune the designs if I can. I can use the cardboard designs, no problem there, just takes longer. Got several pig designs to put on paper also. Like the truck bank, doubt I'll be making a four foot bank; and if I ever do, it will be for $500, PITA again, with a buyer beforehand. But may make a two foot bank of each, just for the heck of it, and hoping they will sell. If so, I'm thinking $120 for the pig, and $150 for the truck. 

Still trying to decide the best way for me to sell them. I don't like sales people much, and really don't like the idea of being one. If I had a partner, figure the large flea market in Raleigh would be good, just sit there reading, or whatever, and wait for people to stop. Now that I think I could deal with. Got a friend in New York who hits craft shows 4-5 time a year usually, and does quite well with his custom boxes. Don't think I'd care much for craft shows tho. Thinking ETSY also, a huge amount of the things listed on there are priced considerable higher than I figure is reasonable. I want to make money, but want to give a fair value at the same time. Some of the little banks on ETSY are priced higher than I consider a fair price for my larger banks. I read long ago that it is easier to sell 100 things for $1 each, than it is to sell one thing for $100. 

Oh yes, now that I've got the thinking part pretty much wound up on my designs, got another pig bank version I'm working on - a small pig, on the back of a large pig. Of course the money will go thru the small pig, into the large one. Figure putting something like Kids College Fund on the small bank, and maybe Party Fund on the large bank, will sell a few. 

Oh yes, forgot, I may actually make a four foot pig bank. Thinking maybe find a good charity or whatever to donate it to, so they could use it in their fund drives. I'm thinking it could be a good draw for people to put change in that, when they wouldn't donate otherwise; a hundred pennies are as good as a dollar bill.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

A four foot piggy bank would be neat to see


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> A four foot piggy bank would be neat to see


I agree. But now that I thought about it a bit more, I'm wondering how I'd move one. Being so big it's gonna be awkward to handle, but more important for me, it's gonna be way heavier than I can handle anymore. I can make it, I can put it together, but with my back I'm not sure if I could lift even one end, let alone the whole thing. But I'm sure I'll come up with something when the time comes, except me helping move it. Heh.

Today before I got out of the bedroom decided to layout a pig design on paper, versus cardboard. And then I realized, I have five designs, all the same height, just different lengths. This means I can lay out my midsize design, glue it to wood, cut it out, and make my master master - I call it that because I will use that to make my actual masters. But when I get my masters done, I can use the first one (the middle size) to layout, and rout out, the others. Easy peasy, this will save me loads of time and work. 

The pigs each will require three masters, one with the legs and ears, one with the snout and tail, and one spacer, which can also be used as the outer piece just not having the center removed. So I'll make a perfect (more or less) master master, then use that to rout out the three masters. On one, the legs and ears will be cut off, then sanded until it is right. Next one, snout and tail off. Last piece the spacer, it will be snout, tail, ears, legs, off. A bit time consuming, but not really bad. And, if I screw one up by cutting, or sanding, just rout out another with the master master and start over. No prob.

Once the masters are made, I'll lay out the length of the next one I want to do. Lay the first master down, trace around it, then slide it back until it is at the other line then trace around that end. Then just position one or the other end inside the outline, tack down, rout out half the design. Then loosen it up, slide it so the design is inside the other outline, tack down, rout, repeat with the other two masters. Do that with the other length banks. Now, instead of five master masters, I will only need to make one. And instead of having to remove the ears, etc., get them all right, five more times, that will all be done already. Got two other banks with the same height, and different lengths, do them the same way. 

Can't use any of this with my truck banks, they are all different heights and lengths. But that's OK, because they should be a bit easier to do the masters than the pigs. However, each will still require a master master to work from.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Still no shop time, events just keep kicking me. So, fine tuning my designs. Thinking now I'll use rubber stopper in all (or at least most) of the banks, rather than making a simple removable wood stop - won't cost that much, and I'm thinking they will be well worth it in time saved. The pig design is so stupid simple to make longer, taller, wider, it is almost beyond belief. Which means that now I have about twenty pig designs. LOL I will NOT be making all of them, unless I make one of each, but multiples, for now anyway, will be limited to just a few, maybe 5-6, after I get them sorted out. 

The truck banks are a bit more, involved. Not including the 2' bank, a 2.5' bank I came up with, and the 4' bank; decided to pass on a 3'bank, maybe later. The last three banks may, or may not, be made on a one-off basis, or special order, and a bunch of non-refundable cash in advance - and they're gonna be pricey, like $600 for a 4' bank, simply because I think they are going to be a PITA to make, and basically because I just don't want to make one. 

However, the truck banks should be all sorted out not, but have to figure out what size wheels to go on each. I'm still not certain on those, at first figured 3" for the smallest bank, just now it's 2.25", the next size up is 2.75", then 3.5", and so on. It's not rocket science but I've found out it is very easy to get a wheel size that just won't make the truck it's on look good. They won't be to scale of course, but will be close enough to look pretty good. You will definitely be able to know it's a monster truck, but I just don't want them to look like clown trucks, and some of them came close, before I started concentrating on wheel size. 

I 'think' I'll be OK routing out the two smallest wheels, my masters are always 1" thick (two layers of half inch plywood), so will have a lot to hold on to, and will use both hands. But if it gets scary, I've already thought of s simple 'tool' to hold the piece being routed, and just turn it with my thumbs. With a handle out to each side, it will be about impossible to get any fingers close to the router bit if I decide to use one. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any use this 'too', or holder as it were, would be of any use except for things like turning my wheels. But, you can never tell, so I'll try to sketch out what I'm thinking of later, so if any of you can think of any other uses for the basic design, you're welcome to it. Of course there will be a minor one-time fee of $200 per person, copying it, but woodworkers are all rich, so no prob. Hehehe

Then will come fine tuning pricing. I think I'll start another thread on that.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, the saga of the banks goes on, more or less. The monster truck banks are all laid out, with a total of nine sizes. They are all basically to scale of a real monster truck (sort of). Two foot, three foot, and four foot, I will only make by special order, both because it is more work, takes more wood, and I figure will be a real PITA to make - hence my prices for those of $150, $300, and $700 - I really do not want to make a four-footer.

The other six truck banks range from 5.25 inches to 17.75 inches. The tire sizes of all nine banks are pretty close to scale. The sort of to scale part is the width of the tire. I had to go half inch at a time on those, but don't figure anyone will complain, especially any kids that get one. Also figured how wide to make the truck bodies to keep them close to scale.

Surprisingly, the truck banks proved a lot simpler to layout, than the pig banks. You'd think otherwise, but still working on the pig banks. If I had deviated from scale(ish) on the trucks, they would have looked cartoony, and I didn't want that. A pig on the other hand looks sorta cartoony from the git-go. So, at present I have 32 pig designs, maybe 33, and still not finished. A lot of the designs will be discarded immediately, just wanted to get every design I could think of so I could see what looked good, and what not. For example, I doubt seriously that anyone would want a pig bank four foot long, 4.5 inches tall, and 4.5 inches wide - and if they do I will charge a bundle if they want me to make it. 

The smallest design is I believe 3 inches long, 3 inches tall, and 3 inches wide. This won't actually be a bank, it won't be hollow, and was designed to use small pieces I would have no use for, and will be a paper weight. The next two sizes will have a large opening in the top, and will be meant to dump your change in at the end of the day, tip jars, or to hold candy or potpourri (?) or whatever. I figure they'll be just too small to bother making a regular type bank out of, but again will be handy for using up small pieces of leftover wood. From there up to 18 inches they will be regular banks. From two foot, three foot, and four foot, Those will also be special order only, and cost a bunch. Hard to scale a pig, so will just stuck with what I think people will buy - which includes a few kinda strange designs. One is 9.25 inches long, 9.25 inches tall, and 9.5 inches wide - doesn't take a lot of room, but will hold a lot of coins, and is a bit different. Then there is 
9.25 inches long, 4.5 inches tall, and 4.5 inches wide - again a bit different, but still looks like a pig. 

So, still got to sort out what pig designs I will use or scrap, then it's pricing. I think I've pretty much got the truck pricing figured, but you never know. 

Now just need to start getting in shop time again, hopefully in the not far distant future. And remember, if it ain't a pig, it ain't a piggy bank.
:yes4:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'd like to see a 200 hundred ton mining truck made into a piggy bank . Maybe put the coin in a slot in the top of the box canopy , then it causes the box to raise moving the coin threw channels till it lands in its final resting place in the chassis .


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Hmm, that would be interesting. But if you want it to move, I think Gaffboat is your man. Oliver, where are you? Time to make a bank.
:nerd:


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Holey moley, I decided to google some images. Some of those buggers are dualys at both ends. Wow. Don't know about making a bank, but would be fun designing one at least. Now if I can just hunt down some dimensions.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

And in case you don't know, these things are not the same size as the big dump trucks you see on the highway. They are a LOT bigger, that is a grown man standing in front.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

JOAT said:


> And in case you don't know, these things are not the same size as the big dump trucks you see on the highway. They are a LOT bigger, that is a grown man standing in front.


Yes I grew up in a mining town. They had the biggest truck in the world at the time up at Harmer Ridge , but I believe the 350 ton has been surpassed. 
I never drove it but had a ride in it once . Had quite a smooth ride all things considered. All the wheels turned on this truck in order to get around tight corners . They could never keep it running for very long though , as it was sort of a prototype . Couldn't take the rough roads and kept breaking down . Didn't help that they overloaded it to 500 tons at times .
There was a brother to it located n Africa , but it ran on an ash-fault road , so it had less issues


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Not sure what the limit it now, but googling did see some rated at 450 tons. Rick, you find one you would like a bank of, post it, and I'll see what I can come up with. I'd pick the truck myself, except there are apparently so many out there, with minor differences in each - so can't make up my mind. If you want them to move in anyway tho, better get with Oliver.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

The first one I posted would be the one I'd be building . Wish my shop was heated as I'd start building it myself . Seems like a really neat project . 
Would like to see a crank like Oliver implements though , that would raise and lower the box moving the coin threw different channels till it drops in the chassis :grin:

Or it would even look neat if there wasn't a movable box , but had channels in the box so that the coin went in the top of the canopy , then went to the rear and doubled back to the front then dropped . 
Put plexi on the side of the box so the kids can get a visual .
Or the box could be hinged , and the kids could raise and lower it manually till the coin made its way down some channels and dropped .

Personally , I'd put a linear actuator on the box , and have a trigger on the coin slot that activated the raising action . As the coin rolled to the rear , the actuator would then lower the box and bring the coin forward to the cab and dump it inside . 
This would probably be a hit with miners , and I could see them buying this for there kids , maybe even themselves . I'd try to get the scaling close though


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I was googling for dimensions, to try to keep it to scale, and ran across another truck, from the same company, that I think would make a better looking bank, and be easier to make to boot. I did get the dimensions, but before I proceed, I'm going to review the rest of the companies truck to see what they look like. May just change trucks.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Yes I grew up in a mining town. They had the biggest truck in the world at the time up at Harmer Ridge ,


Rick, I think I want to do this one. It looks a lot more awesome than the other, and surprisingly I think it might be a bit easier to make. So, I'm going to concentrate on this one as I get time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terex_33-19_"Titan"
Wow, there's actually quite a lot on-line about this truck. Interesting.





Almost forgot. Awhile back someone said they used large sheets of graph paper, and that made me think I could use some. Well, I could, but seldom. I would say that way over 90% of all my stuff is laid out on tablet size graph paper, and that works out very well for me. So, rather than buying large sheets of graph paper, which would seldom be used, I'll just tape the pages I use now together to whatever size I want. I'll find me a cardboard tube somewhere (think I have one), roll up the design and keep it in the tube. I figure this one will take probably two foot long sheets. Tape takes care of my problem very nicely.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That would certainly be interesting if you used the 350 ton as a template . Looking forward to what you come up with .

From memory I was pretty sure the truck was over 50' high when it's box was raised . I googled it and it's 56' high . That's quite a truck


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Yeah, that's the plan. When I saw the picture of that one I just stopped looking. In a few ways it will be easier to design and build than the first one, and in others it will be a lot harder. Keeping it pretty much in scale shouldn't be an issue, but there's a lot of detail work that might not be so easy to do. On my monster trucks just keeping it close to scale is sufficient, but on this one I want to keep as much of the actual look as I can too. I'm sure I'm going to wind up taking awhile on it, but I really would like to keep it as realistic looking as I can. And I'm thinking this thing won't look near as good if it's less than about two foot long. I've done some research on it, and will do a lot more. Just don't count on it being done anywhere near as quickly as my trucks. I can make one, no biggie, the biggie part is making one that I can duplicate, using masters, like I do with my other banks, I just don't want to make a one off bank.

Speaking of which, I am going to have to lay out on graph paper all of the truck designs not already on paper ON paper. Then I can just glue them on to wood, ready to cut out my masters. The two, three, and four, foot banks will be laid out on paper, but not glued to wood, because I don't know if I will be making any of them, just want to have the design handy in case someone with loads of money, and a room temp IQ, wants one. I think $700 for a four foot truck bank, with a non-refundable deposit of 50%, is reasonable. Hehehehe

I'll be laying out most of the pig banks on paper also. I say most, because there are some I can automatically discard; for example, I seriously doubt anyone will be wanting a 4.5 inch tall piggy bank, that is 47.5 inches long. The rest I need to look at to see which ones I do not want to keep. The ones I keep will then be ready to glue to wood. Same deal with the two foot and over pigs as the trucks. 

It's a good thing I like woodworking.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well as I said I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the outcome of this. I'm even happier your choosing out Titan as a base point


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

JOAT said:


> Well, my laptop died. Screen went black, nothing. Pushed the power button, it came back on, then later went black again. And has stayed black. I'm on my backup laptop just now, a refurb I got off of evilBay awhile back.
> Oh yeah, when my laptop went, I lost a whole lot of research.


All my files are backed up on Dropbox, which also has a number of other features. My daughter and I use it for all business files. Costs me $99 a year for 1 terabyte. You can get a free 5 gig account from them. Works independently of your OS.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> All my files are backed up on Dropbox, which also has a number of other features. My daughter and I use it for all business files. Costs me $99 a year for 1 terabyte. You can get a free 5 gig account from them. Works independently of your OS.


If you called me computer illiterate, you would be polite. This from a guy who was a lead computer operator for almost 9 years - but believe me, PCs are a LOT different from mainframes. I'll have to check into that. Fortunately, I had all my new cane handle designs on paper, so no loss there - just a load of research. Ah well. I'm looking into removing the hard drive and hooking it up to retrieve the info. Thanks Tom.

Hope this laptop doesn't die, cause I have got a load of pictures and info on the Titan mining truck. No wonder I liked it, turns out that is probably the most famous truck in the world. I know I have a bunch of duplicate photos, but even after culling those I'll have a bunch of photos, and I think all the info I need to proceed with. Man, there is loads of info on that truck. They make them with larger payloads now, but that thing is probably still the largest truck ever made, it is huge.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Theo the Titan is a beast .
I was a dumpman for a few years at Harmer Ridge back when the Titan was still in operation . I'm guessing early 80's .
I had to guide trucks to edge of the pit on top of a mountain so they could dump there load of rock over. 
I wasn't very good at guiding the Titan , as when he was backing up I would signal him to stop , only to see if it took him approx 50' to come to a full stop . Quite often he blew the berm out with the rear duals , only to be hanging on by the front set of rear duals . It's only a few thousand feet down and my job if he goes over lol .
But if I stopped him short , he wouldn't back up a second time and would just dump the load , which in turn would piss off the dozen operator , as he had to push 3 to 4 hundred tons off the dump .
A the end of the shift , the last truck you dumped would pick you up to go back to the main offices , and on only one occasion did the Titan pick me up . 
But it's kind of cool to say that I actually road in it once .

Just a FYI , because of its over complicated rear wheel turning system it regularly broke down .
As I mentioned , in order to negotiate tight corners going to the pits , all four rear wheels turned in order to tighten the turning radius .
Once a rear dually broke right off and was freely rolling down a pit road lol.
Another time they overloaded it to 500 tons of rock and the hydraulics failed trying to raise the box .
They had a D9L Cat make a ramp to the back of the box , then proceed to go in the box and clean it out . Kinda puts it into perspective how big the Titan is


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

This is a picture of the engine they used. Not sure of the dimensions, except huge. I'm down to about 80 pictures now, and am pretty sure I can cull them down to at least 40, not sure if I want to go much lower than that, but maybe. That will be more than enough to get started. Next time tho I won't mix the photos in with my others, I'll start a separate folder for them. Just spent about half an hour shifting photos to a new file. Bleah.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes the engines are the same ones they use in trains . The train engine basically turns a huge generator in the truck , which in turn powers electric motors that drive the wheels .
When your standing beside these trucks , they sound just like train . There is no mechanical coupling from the engine to the wheels , basically just a train engine running a huge power grid . To this day I have nightmares when I hear trains lol


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, got the monster truck banks pretty well sorted out. Figured out how to 'size' the wheels to each different size, so they will all be relatively in scale; even figured out how wide I will be making the tired. Got the width of the truck bodies too, but looking again, think I may make changes in a few - or not. There are six sizes, ranging from 5.25" long to 47.750 long, Of course the three largest I do not plan on making. However, if some bozo comes along with $700 and wants a four foot pig bank, I will probably accommodate him. Hehehe The 5.25" truck I am undecided on but think I will pass on making them banks. The reason they will be so small is because I will have leftovers just right for making them. However, I'm thnking I will just make them solid, as paperweights, or drill out a large hole in the top, so you can dump your pocket change in them at night. I will probably wind up making a few banks that size, with 2.5" or 3" rubber stoppers, just to see how they sell - I'll decide later.

The trucks are more complex than the piggy banks, but the piggy banks are more of a PITA. The reason being, there is no actual scale to a piggy bank. Which means that right now I believe I have 33 pig designs. Obviously most of these will get tossed, but sorting them out is not as easy as it sounds. The smallest design is 3" long, 2.5 or 3" tall, and probably 2.5" wide. This size means I will have a use for a lot of pieces I otherwise would have to toss. They won't be banks, for sure, but solid for paperweights, or a hole bored for pocket change at night. The next size up may also be used the same. I'm still laying them all out on paper, then will just go thru and toss the ones I think will not go over well, hopefully leaving about eight designs, at the max, but may go a bit over that number. Then it will be deciding on how wide each size should be to look good. And no scale to work with doesn't make it any easier. The good part tho, that also makes it harder to be wrong. 

I have reached the point where my shop will again nave power. Yay. But then I have to get some propane for heating, seems the propane I had stored apparently followed one of my sons, most likely the younger, when they left. But progress is being made.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I'm looking forward to seeing one built . Was hoping to see one a few feet long in the mix


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well I'm looking forward to seeing one built . Was hoping to see one a few feet long in the mix


You mean the four foot piggy bank? Or the truck? Been thinking about making one or the other, just to do it. I WILL have pictures if I do.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Hoping for the truck


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, I can do a truck. But if you meant the Titan, that'll be awhile, still working on the design, quite a bit more complex than my monster trucks. Do want to do one tho. In the meantime I'll go with my four foot truck design. Then I'll sell it to you, at a discount, only $600. Hehehe


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Whew. Just went thru the Titan reference pictures. Again. Still working on discarding duplicate pictures. I have got a LOT of pictures, but that's pretty much standard operation procedure when I'm researching a project. Usually can get by with less photos tho, but this truck has a lot of details that I want to try to include in the finished product, if I can that is. Dunno if I'll go for a four footer, or even a three footer, but will go for a two footer, at least. I think anything smaller would lose a lot of detail that can be saved on a larger truck. Hope so anyway.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Just finished another Titan search. Got loads of stuff I'd not seen before. The design is going to go better than I had thought what with the new stuff. The actual build should be a tad more easy also, but still way more complex than my monster trucks. Thinking I may have to use some 1/4" or even 1/8" plywood, to sort of keep it more in scale. Still working on ideas for the railings, etc. 

Got the monster truck designs down to 5, well 8 if you include the 2, 3, and 4 footers. Discarded the smallest design because the wheels especially would be too small for me to feel comfortable routing my hand. Could make a jig to hold them, but the hassle wouldn't be worth it. Should be good with everything else, except probably the pricing, that's never simple to figure out. What sells for $20 in one location, may only bring $15 ten miles down the road. Just have to do the best I can think of then see how it works in actuality.

Still plugging along on the pig designs. I'm going to have to have almost every single design put down on paper so I can see what it looks like and if I think it looks good. A few pigs will of course just be discarded from the start. After all, how many people would want a piggy bank 4.5" tall, and four foot long? Not many I'm thinking. On the other hand, I think that one 4.5" tall and 9.25" long could quite possibly go over well. 

And, of course, all the rest of life keeps getting in the way of things and slowing it all down. Still have some things needing sorting out with my cane handle designs too. Working on a new (less expensive) way of making micarta also. Got a real old revolver or two needing new grips, and being so old and obsolete, even if I could find the proper grips for them, the price would be more than the revolvers themselves are worth. So figure why not use micarta? Also got a Chinese air rifle I really don't like the stock on, so figuring out how to make a stock that will fit on it, and decided I'd go with micarta on that also.

For those that aren't familiar with micarta, I should have a picture of some micarta grips.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

My micarta experiment is going along quite well. I think I'm on to something. The banks are still proceeding, but at a crawl for just now, life is intervening. I found a nice use for the small pieces I will generate doing the larger banks. I figure a small pig, about 3" long, 2.5" tall, and 2-3" wide, will make a nice paperweight. I won't wind up tossing a lot of pieces that I otherwise would, and can make a few $ to boot.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Thanks for showing Theo.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

old55 said:


> Thanks for showing Theo.


No prob, I figure it's always nice to have a picture of something to explain something you might not be familiar with. And, as usual, I'm doing the micarta differently than others. The standard way of making micarta is with epoxy or superglue. So I tried Titebond II, and it's turning out possibly as good as epoxy, and considerably less expensive, just takes longer to totally set. Don't know how it would be useful in woodworking, except for making pistol grips, or knife handles, but if enough people are interested in how I do it with wood glue I'll post a thread on it. Basically it's just the same as using epoxy, and there's plenty of info on the web on how that's done.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have no idea how you make those handles , but there way cool !


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan wants micarta, everyone gets micarta. :laugh2:

This link tells pretty well how everyone makes micarta. Except me. DIY Knifemaker's Info Center: DIY Micarta The piece I made I laid down a strip of pants material about 3" wide and 6" long, then covered it with unthinned Titebond II, laid another strip on that, unthinned glue, repeated until I had 11 or 12 strips, then set it aside for the glue to set. Well, next day very easy to bend the stack. OK, set it aside. Next day, not quite as easy to bend. Repeated this for 5 or 6 days, and it wound up very hard, very stiff, I would say the equivalent of any micarta made with epoxy. I tried a couple of smaller pieces, saturated with 50/50 thinned Titebond, and that seemed to be a bit stiffer then with the unthinned. Either way, it takes several days longer than it would with epoxy. However, it does seem to wind up with similar strength, and considerable lest cost. 

Here is a picture of the stack, and a picture of the style of grip I wanted to make. But, my stack is not long enough, and probably not wide enough to make a grip like that. I will go ahead and make grips using my stack, after all it is a proof of concept thing, and that is proving out very nicely. So, I'll go ahead, make the grips, then layout a larger stack, so I can make the target style grips I really want. Don't think I mentioned, but I came across the Harrington & Richardson revolver, and traced the grip portion of the frame. The other revolver is a Iver Johnson, both 8 shot .22 revolvers, both antique, both missing parts, with apparently nickel plated with 6" barrels. And I cannot find any information on either, so don't know what models they are, don't know what other parts will fit, nothing. But that's OK, they will wind up as single shot target/plinking pieces. Both have nice rifling by the way, and both are kind of beat up on the outside.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Have gotten sidetracked with life, so not making much progress on anything fun lately. Waiting for the last of the micarta pieces to finish drying then it's scrollsaw cutting, gluing, then fitting. Won't be perfect, but it is just proof concept after all.

Got in my Titan file, again, and discarded a bunch more pictures. But there's still loads more I have to go thru. Originally I figured I'd be good with maybe four pictures, that usually works for me with projects like this. But found some sites with toy and model Titans, made from wood on one site, another with Leggos. Going to have to be cautious going thru these, because they should be a major help, especially with things like the steps and railings. 

Found out I am going to have to make a few dimension changes on a batch of my cane handles. Shouldn't take long, when I figure just what I need.

The banks have sort of been coming in last on all of this for now. Have made some progress on them, but not as much as I would prefer. However, should have electricity back in the shop soon, so can get back to some work. Things are looking up.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Well, life may be getting back on track. I hope. Been without a vehicle for something over 2 weeks - the Jeep has issues, issues either very inexpensive to fix, or too expensive to bother; still researching which. So, got a very nice Dodge Dakota, and the paper work was wrong. Got that corrected, and back to the DMV next day (Tue). Needed inspection, but was able to at least get a temporary plate. It passed inspection today, but too weary to go to the DMV today, tomorrow or Monday. About a week ago, found out had a major leak in my front bathroom, the one don't use. Toilet tank faucet bad. But got it removed and the line capped by my son. Don't know how long it was leaking, but did not do the floor a bit of good. Had to change the type of C-Pap mask I was using, because it pressed on my upper jaw and made a tooth hurt. Regular dental check, the dentist found it had a cavity. A week or so later was scheduled to get it worked on. However, that weekend it snapped in half, which lead to needing it pulled, the tooth beside it pulled, and a partial plate made - for a lot of $. Then there are some smaller things. But things are looking up. A little. 

Made enough progress on my canes and pig and truck banks, decided to work on plans for the Titan. Ran across this site for a model, notice the price - this was the cheap one. Buffalo Road Imports. Terex Titan 33-19 haul truck WESTAR MINING colors MINING DUMP TRUCKS Handbuilt - resin EMD Series N Diecast scale models Apparently should have started making these long ago.

Went thru the Titan images, dumped a lot, and found a few more. This is going to be a bear, compared to my monster truck bank. It is going to be like a wood jigsaw puzzle, without a box with a picture on it. I can do it, but using just 1/2" plywood, is not going to cut it. I may well have to use some 1/4" plywood, and definitely will have to use popsicle sticks. You really know it is a complicated project when popsicle sticks are needed.

In a few ways I think the design at least will be simpler than the moonstruck design. At least with this I have some very nice side drawings to go with, including the wheel cutouts. But overall, it will be more complex. The monster truck has I believe 5 masters, not including the wheels. The Titan will require at least 7 master, just from looking at the side drawing, so I am quite certain it will require an easy 3 more, at the very least. I'm not going to go overboard with the build, I'm not about to try to make one to exact scale, but what I am shooting for (hopefully) is for someone that has seen a Titan, either in life or pictures, and say, "Hey, that looks like a Titan". That would be nice. Lacking that, I'll settle for, "Hey, nice truck". Oh yes, it too will be a bank. I'll figure it out later, but just now, am thinking maybe need to go with about 16" long, any smaller not sure if it would look as good. Build time will start if and when I get it all designed the way I like it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm hoping people say , hey there's the Titan . But then again , how many people are aware of it? 


Wow that's an old pic . Westar mining, not that brings back memories going back to the 80's.
I liked those colours better back then too


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

*My CNC works*

Well, vehicle running, numerous other issues addressed. Got all my designs, truck and pig banks, finished. So, a little back was ready to hit the shop and start on a 2 foot monster truck bank. Then realized something seemed odd. Took a bit, but then it hit me that the width was off, or at least the width I had come up with. Turned out it was my CNC working. CNC = Can Not Count. I had miscalculated somewhere, so had to go over the design, again, and now am satisfied. It's not a model, so doesn't have to actually be to scale, but I do want it to scalish, which it now is. Also determined that the pig bank widths might not be the best looking. But that was very easily resolved. I'll make the masters for it, no problems there, then put the routed pieces together to see just what width looks best for that length. I mean, how do you scale a pig? 

Shop time now? Not quite, new issues, wouldn't you know. But soon. In the meantime, woke up this morning, sat up on the side of the bed, when it hit me. An Easter Island head bank. Argh. So been searching for pictures, and now ready to sketch one up. At least this will keep me occupied until I get the new issues worked out and get in some shop time.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, Easter Island head bank all designed. Asked at the doctor's office what they thought it looked like, immediate answer, Easter Island head. I also asked if I was still alive, and the answer was YES. I'm happy. Hehehe

But while searching for Easter Island heads, for inspiration, ran across the picture below. Not sure what it is supposed to be, but reminds me of Homer Simpson if he was on LSD. Still working on a bank based on that, just need the ear done.

Got a 2 foot truck bank design laid out on 1/4" graph paper, looks good. Cardboard is great for an initial design, can correct goofups with masking tape, whiteout, or latex paint, which does not go well with paper. But transferring the design to plywood does not go well, which is why I used the graph paper, it will glue nicely to the plywood, and then I will cut it out. Just need to make the right size wheels for it, so I will know just how to cut out for them.

Working on a 16" pig too. I decided not to go for a 2 footer first, because that would take a whole sheet of plywood. I can get 2 16" pigs from a sheet of plywood. 

I have all the sizes of my designs on my phone, love cell phones. But I don't know which are already completed, and which I need to put on graph paper. So, am going thru all my designs, finished ones will be rolled and kept in a toilet paper roll. Was going to make a box from scratch, along the lines of my cardboard and cloth drink carrier, then remembered I have a box of the right size, just need to fasten the top parts. The finished designs will then be stowed in the box until ready for use. Then the finished ones will be listed on my phone as done, and taken off the other list, that way I will know what is done, and which needs doing. I really love my cell phone. I understand you can even make calls on it too. 

Working on the truck, found a couple of minor things I needed to correct, and did. Big difference really, to me at least. Now, that leads me to needing to make a stand for my hand belt sander, before I can even start. Then need another small, but essential, gadget or 2 before I can even start on it. Plus need a glue up jig - I've made them before, so no biggie, except the one I will need now will be larger than any I made before, and also needs to tilt in 2 directions at once, which I have never needed before. I can cut the pieces, but won't be able to do an accurate enough glue up without a proper glue up jig. Big sigh. Hmm, didn't have a clue how I would actually make that jig, but I think I just thought of how I will do it. Zen woodworking. Hehehe I love woodworking. And no CNC machine was harmed in planning this project.


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