# A Tall Lock Miter Joint Fence for Ken & Sid



## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Ken and Sid,

Here is the tall sliding fence I promised to show you. I got it from a tip on another web site. The first pic is the fence. 7" high mdf, jointed top and bottom and parallel. This can be clamped to your regular fence. *Click to enlarge
*


Next pic with the sliding fence attached and a workpiece clamped in place. 



Sliding fence details. The 2nd one is the back.





Here is the cut. You should do the cut in one go unless you are using plywood. Keep in mind that this is just construction quality Fir. Notice the blowout on the trails end. This is normal, but might be avoidable with a thin ply backer. I haven't tried it yet. When you run a piece through you have to apply medium hand pressure to the lower part of the workpiece, but not near the bit!





You can also do tenons with this fence. The workpiece is clamped for the face cuts. For the edge cuts I just left one of the workpieces in the clamp to act as a backer and I hand held the workpiece with the edge against the fence and the face held against the clamped piece. It worked just fine. The 2nd pic shows the tenon rounded for the poorly routed mortise in the 3rd pic.







What do you know, a perfect fit!



I hope this will help you guys out. let me know if you need any help with it.


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Don't suppose you would have a plan or drawings for the parts of your plywood hold down clamp, would you ?
I can't find a source for those clamps here in Croatia.
Cheers
Gav


----------



## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Gav,

I couldn't get them here either, so i designed and made my own. I have posted the clamps and a picture of templates for each part on another website. I will try to round it up and post it on a thread so a lot of people can benefit. I will reference it with your name so you can easily locate it.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

You don't need the super tall fence and the hold down if you do it the MLCS way,it's very quick and easy..and it comes out right on the button every time.

see video, same web page
MLCS lock mitre router bits


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

gav said:


> Don't suppose you would have a plan or drawings for the parts of your plywood hold down clamp, would you ?
> I can't find a source for those clamps here in Croatia.
> Cheers
> Gav


Here is another shop-made hold down clamp to get ideas from until Stefang posts his plans. This is larger, but it could be scaled down dimensionally I suppose.


----------



## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi BJ & Paulo,

Thanks for the advice. I did try the MCLS way and it worked, but I got tired real fast of taping and tape removal. Way too slow and messy! This fence whips them out in 1,2,3 and they are more stabile during the cut. And of course I get the added benefit of being able to cut tenons quick and easy too. I just hang the fence on the wall when it's not in use. I screw it onto my fence positioner when I want to use it and I can make precise fence adjustments with a turn of the knob, which is a big advantage when getting a lock miter bit adjusted just right. In fact I like it so well that I'm making another little clamp jig for the horizontal cuts. 

Those shop made clamps look great Paulo and I'm sure they work real good too and are just as good as my clamps, but mine are a lot easier (read quicker to make) and cheaper. The only hardware required for mine is a nail and two wood screws to fasten it to a jig.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Now Bj, will you believe me when I tell you that there are distinct advantages in using a tall fence. I've done perfect lock mitres in 3' tall 3/4" MDF without any form of added stabilisation, why don't you give a try sometime?
The first shot which I just pulled off the internet shows a 3' bathroom cabinet that I made about ten years ago with three mirror doors, no backing, I made MDF templates and got a glass specialist to make them complete with holes for the continental cabinet hinges.
The reason for it being on the web is that the house, which we sold a little over seven years ago for $160,000 is back on the market with an asking price "offers over $400.000" and I know they will get it. Whilst we only paid $12,700 brand new in Dec. 1967, we did an enormous amount to it.
Looking through the nine photos. indicates that internally, the only change other that the furniture, is a different dishwasher, light fittings, window treatments, floor coverings and décor, are all the same. Externally, gone are the manicured lawns, replaced with what looks like wild bush shrubs.
Anyone interested in taking a look, here is the link.

*Real Estate for Sale: 40 Kenmare Avenue, Thornlie, WA - reiwa.com.au*


----------



## interceptor (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks so much for the pics and instructions, can appreciate the time you invested in putting it all together. Will be heading out to the shop to begin construction of the fence. Nice looking shop Mike, must admit to being a bit of a Peeping Tom and scrolled through some of your pics on PB.


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Stefang said:


> Hi Gav,
> 
> I couldn't get them here either, so i designed and made my own. I have posted the clamps and a picture of templates for each part on another website. I will try to round it up and post it on a thread so a lot of people can benefit. I will reference it with your name so you can easily locate it.


Thanks Stefan,
I found your clamps on the lumberjocks forum, so i'll give them a shot one day soon.
Gav


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

I will agree that the tape is a PITA that's why I use a pin nailer  just need to drive in a very small pin nail and it locked in place unlike the tape way.
You may say what about the holes from the nails they are so small on the stock and with a drop of water on the hole they are gone,as you know the pin nailes just push the stock to one side unlike a drill bit that removes the stock.

=====



Stefang said:


> Hi BJ & Paulo,
> 
> Thanks for the advice. I did try the MCLS way and it worked, but I got tired real fast of taping and tape removal. Way too slow and messy! This fence whips them out in 1,2,3 and they are more stabile during the cut. And of course I get the added benefit of being able to cut tenons quick and easy too. I just hang the fence on the wall when it's not in use. I screw it onto my fence positioner when I want to use it and I can make precise fence adjustments with a turn of the knob, which is a big advantage when getting a lock miter bit adjusted just right. In fact I like it so well that I'm making another little clamp jig for the horizontal cuts.
> 
> Those shop made clamps look great Paulo and I'm sure they work real good too and are just as good as my clamps, but mine are a lot easier (read quicker to make) and cheaper. The only hardware required for mine is a nail and two wood screws to fasten it to a jig.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I do use a tall fence but it's on my Horz.router table and it's always laying flat and true at a 90 degs. to the router bit.

why don't you give a try sometime?
========= ..





harrysin said:


> Now Bj, will you believe me when I tell you that there are distinct advantages in using a tall fence. I've done perfect lock mitres in 3' tall 3/4" MDF without any form of added stabilisation, why don't you give a try sometime?
> The first shot which I just pulled off the internet shows a 3' bathroom cabinet that I made about ten years ago with three mirror doors, no backing, I made MDF templates and got a glass specialist to make them complete with holes for the continental cabinet hinges.
> The reason for it being on the web is that the house, which we sold a little over seven years ago for $160,000 is back on the market with an asking price "offers over $400.000" and I know they will get it. Whilst we only paid $12,700 brand new in Dec. 1967, we did an enormous amount to it.
> Looking through the nine photos. indicates that internally, the only change other that the furniture, is a different dishwasher, light fittings, window treatments, floor coverings and décor, are all the same. Externally, gone are the manicured lawns, replaced with what looks like wild bush shrubs.
> ...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Not to sure why you would want to make one when you can buy them in many types from just about any wood workers supply outlets for peanuts..

=========



gav said:


> Thanks Stefan,
> I found your clamps on the lumberjocks forum, so i'll give them a shot one day soon.
> Gav


----------



## MuzzleMike (Feb 23, 2010)

I know what you all are saying about tall fences I love them . My father in-law and I have a little contest going on . Who can make this and that better and cheaper . He likes his fences low and I like mine high . Here is a pic of my router table I made the fence was not finished when the pic was taken . I added a dist collector to it and I am still adding . I like to say ( Some like to ride high and dry and others low and slow but at the end it is all good .) 










Mike


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Not to sure why you would want to make one when you can buy them in many types from just about any wood workers supply outlets for peanuts..
> 
> =========


Well BJ, as I've mentioned before, here in Croatia there is not a single place I can buy them. If 1 clamp costs $15 from Lee valley tools, then by the time it gets into my hands assuming they ship internationaly, it would cost me at least $30. Not a price I wish to pay for a small clamp.


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> I do use a tall fence but it's on my Horz.router table and it's always laying flat and true at a 90 degs. to the router bit.
> 
> ...


Are you refering to the table top as the 'fence' on the horizontal router table ?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi gav

They are about 4.00 US dollars 

Harbor Freight Tools

=========



gav said:


> Well BJ, as I've mentioned before, here in Croatia there is not a single place I can buy them. If 1 clamp costs $15 from Lee valley tools, then by the time it gets into my hands assuming they ship internationaly, it would cost me at least $30. Not a price I wish to pay for a small clamp.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gavin

Yes , see below the top is the fence so speak.

=========



gav said:


> Are you refering to the table top as the 'fence' on the horizontal router table ?


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

harrysin;
here is the link.
[B said:


> Real Estate for Sale: 40 Kenmare Avenue, Thornlie, WA - reiwa.com.au[/B]


Hi Harry

What are reticulation from tank fed by bore ? Tank fed by bore, I understand. Presumably no mains water ? Reticulation stumped me.

Cheers

Peter


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

istracpsboss said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> What are reticulation from tank fed by bore ? Tank fed by bore, I understand. Presumably no mains water ? Reticulation stumped me.
> 
> ...


Peter, during the 35 years that we were there we had three different water drilling people come in and drill bores and the maximum flow rate any of them achieved was 600 gallons per hour, not enough to water front and back gardens at the same time, so I installed a 1200 gallon tank and it filled from scheme water. There came a time when water restrictions were introduced and I was no longer allowed the fill the tank from mains water. I resurrected the last of the bores and fitted a 1HP pump to fill the tank. In order to make it automatically switch off a few inches from the top, I fitted an air pressure switch taken from an old Hoover washing machine where it was used to select high/low water level. Close to the bottom of the tank I fitted a 3HP pump which was controlled by a programmable timer where times and days were selected. It was still operating perfectly when we sold the place and presumably still is.
RETICULATION..The output from the tank supplied something like 32 sprinklers spread around the gardens, in other words a network of plastic water pipes.


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Harry, was your fence and shed stained red from the bore water ?

BJ, $4 is a lot cheaper than Lee Valleys $15, still I don't like the idea of paying more for postage and import than the product itself.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

gav said:


> Harry, was your fence and shed stained red from the bore water ?
> 
> BJ, $4 is a lot cheaper than Lee Valleys $15, still I don't like the idea of paying more for postage and import than the product itself.


Unfortunately yes Gavin, the water was basically ground water very high in Iron. Here we have a bore only 30' down which is probably into a running stream, the flow rate is around 2500 gallons per hour and only a trace of Iron with no smell.


----------



## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi BJ,

I have to say that this fence is one of the handiest things I've made and I am very happy with it. Yesterday I routed 16 tenons with it. It was fast, accurate and easy and I didn't have to set up my horizontal table. The thought occurred to me that it would also be perfect to cut sliding dovetails with because I have my fence positioning jig attached to the tall fence and it would be very easy to make tiny adjustments to compensate for slightly different wood thicknesses when necessary. You should give it a try. Then you wouldn't have to nail stuff together and take it apart again. I just don't see that as efficient. However, I do respect that different people have different ways of doing different things. For example I often do mortises and tenons by hand because I'm not in the mood to have a screaming router and a vacuum going at the same time. I guess I'm lucky because I don't have to be efficient or productive. My main concern is just having fun.


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

harrysin said:


> RETICULATION..The output from the tank supplied something like 32 sprinklers spread around the gardens, in other words a network of plastic water pipes.


Thanks Harry. Irrigation is common for gardens here but we are on limestone which holds water, so it is really only to keep everything green in summer. We don't use the term reticulation here. I was forgetting that you probably have much lower rainfall than we do.

I'd often wondered what all the valves and relays in dead washing machines did and whether they were worth salvaging !

Cheers

Peter


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

gav said:


> Harry, was your fence and shed stained red from the bore water ?
> 
> BJ, $4 is a lot cheaper than Lee Valleys $15, still I don't like the idea of paying more for postage and import than the product itself.


Our soil here is very red. It stains the rocks.

Hi Gav. I'm following up a lead from Marco to an Italian manufacturer of toggle clamps, although somehow I don't think they are going to be Harbor Freight prices. I could see what their minimum order is for wholesale terms !

Cheers

Peter


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Hmm, that wouldn't be destaco by chance would it ?
There's a distributor for them in Slovenia. Halder.si
A while back I came across Schachermayer d.o.o. . One thing that was promising with their website was that in the alati(tools) section, there was a picture of a toggle clamp. I went to their 'shop'/counter front wharehouse and was unimpressed with what was actually there. No toggle clamps, no, well most specialist things that you want basically. They do have a kind of t-track, and you can order festool router bits through them.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

If I was in Zagreb, Croatia and I could get the product for almost free I would eat the postage and import and just be done with it  and just put it down as the cost of living in Croatia........


========



gav said:


> Harry, was your fence and shed stained red from the bore water ?
> 
> BJ, $4 is a lot cheaper than Lee Valleys $15, still I don't like the idea of paying more for postage and import than the product itself.


----------



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Gavin
> 
> Yes , see below the top is the fence so speak.
> 
> =========


You've got 2 !!
So if the 'fence' is in fact the table top, then wouldn't the router bit be parallel with the 'fence' and not at 90 degrees to it ?

I just built a very small bench top router table because I have very limited space in my communal dungeon and don't envisage having a lot of space ever for it.
With that in mind, I had an idea to make a normal router table where the table top could hinge to 90 degrees of it's normal position, and then have a folding side that could come up and act as the table top for a horizontal set up. Kind of the best of both worls router table.
Anyone got a vertical that converts to a horizontal router table ?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gavin

Yes, the bit would be parallel..can't have too many router tables.

========



gav said:


> You've got 2 !!
> So if the 'fence' is in fact the table top, then wouldn't the router bit be parallel with the 'fence' and not at 90 degrees to it ?
> 
> I just built a very small bench top router table because I have very limited space in my communal dungeon and don't envisage having a lot of space ever for it.
> ...


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

gav said:


> Hmm, that wouldn't be destaco by chance would it ?
> There's a distributor for them in Slovenia. Halder.si
> A while back I came across Schachermayer d.o.o. . One thing that was promising with their website was that in the alati(tools) section, there was a picture of a toggle clamp. I went to their 'shop'/counter front wharehouse and was unimpressed with what was actually there. No toggle clamps, no, well most specialist things that you want basically. They do have a kind of t-track, and you can order festool router bits through them.


No Gav

SpeedyBlock

Cheers

Peter


----------



## bestmcm1211 (Mar 27, 2012)

Beautiful post


----------



## Jimwarren (Jan 13, 2015)

Pleased to see you back Harry


----------

