# Newbie Template Question



## Tom5151 (Dec 5, 2011)

I am in the very early learning stages as it relates to guide bushings and templates and I am trying to get my head around this. 

Is it accurate to say that when one is making a template to be used in conjunction with a guide bushing (not a bearing bit) that the offset needs to be factored into the dimension of the template being made?

For example if my goal is to produce a 6 inch by 6 inch square (with rounded corners) and my bit to bushing offset is 1/8 of an inch is it correct to say that my template will need to be 1/4 of an inch "smaller" if I am routing around the outside perimeter of my template OR 1/4 of an inch "larger" if i am routing around the inside perimeter of the template?

Sorry for the basic questions. My brain is just not cooperating with this.

Thanks


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

You are correct. But as you are testing the waters you might as well test your templet on scrap first. There are still surprises on top of the math. Collar centricity, cutter diameter, quality of templet, unexpected changes of radii on inside cuts and 10 more anomalies!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Gee whiz Pat, you are going to scare Tom from trying. Tom, it helps to have good reference material to guide you through a new process. There is a wealth of information on the forums but you might like to get a book for handy reference in the shop. Here is a link to a good one by Pat: Amazon.com: The Router Book: A Complete Guide to the Machine and its Accessories (9781561584239): Pat Warner: Books


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Tom


You are on the right track..

Lets take a 1/2" OD guide and a 1/4" router bit.the bit will have two paths so to speak , inside one and a outside one, that's to say the bit will cut 1/8" from the guide,and 3/8" from the guide..at the same time..that's where the female or male templates come into play..once you get that down the guides and templates will just drop into place..


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Tom5151 said:


> I am in the very early learning stages as it relates to guide bushings and templates and I am trying to get my head around this.
> 
> Is it accurate to say that when one is making a template to be used in conjunction with a guide bushing (not a bearing bit) that the offset needs to be factored into the dimension of the template being made?
> 
> ...


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## Tom5151 (Dec 5, 2011)

Thank you gentlemen. I have a lot to learn. I am going to go get my first guide bushings this weekend and go out in the lab (garage...lol.) and experiment....

Thank you all


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Tom, Woodcraft sells a set with all the collars just under 1/4" for about $38. There is an advantage to this since you can use 1/4" templates for all your jobs. Other places sell sets with some short and some long collars which requires 1/2" thickness for your templates; these sets usually cost less. To my way of thinking using just one thickness for your templates is easier but both ways do work. Note that the larger Oak Park/Lee Valley style guide bushings are all just under 1/4" collars.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just one more place to get the SHort stem (1/4" tall ) type,for 24.oo bucks with free shipping if you play it right. 

Amazon.com: Shop Fox D3117 Brass Guide Bushing Set: Home Improvement

15.oo dollar set ▼ 
http://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-router-template-guide-set-98361.html

The bigger OD set ▼ 28 dollars and 50¢ and the one I suggest getting and using.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41778&cat=1,43000,51208,41778
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===


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Just another source for short barrel guides:
Router Brass Template Guide Set - Router Accessories

Bj's link will get ya free shipping for another $1.25 though

Just a couple of tips. Try to get a set with a 1" OD bushing in it. The sets Mike, Bj and I linked to all have that. The other thing to be aware of is that there are at least two different thread pitches, probably more, so if adding to your collection later either try to use the same vendor or order a lock ring if the individual bushing doesn't include one. Just using the same vendor doesn't guarantee anything but the odds are a bit better.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John 

Talking about Eagle, have you got the NEW cat.it's a copy of the MLCS items.
I had to read the cover one more time to see if it was a miss print of the MLCS cat.

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jschaben said:


> Just another source for short barrel guides:
> Router Brass Template Guide Set - Router Accessories
> 
> Bj's link will get ya free shipping for another $1.25 though


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi John
> 
> Talking about Eagle, have you got the NEW cat.it's a copy of the MLCS items.
> I had to read the cover one more time to see if it was a miss print of the MLCS cat.
> ...


Hi Bob - No, I haven't read through their catalog........yet But I did hear where MLCS bought out Eagle America around August/Sept so I'm not surprised. Might be pretty good marriage.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Yep, MLCS owns Eagle now along with Penn State Industries. I got the catalog and noticed they also had stuff from Woodlpeckers, Kreg and Freud. They seem a bit pricey for my tastes.


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## steveodtemplate (Nov 11, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> I am in the very early learning stages as it relates to guide bushings and templates and I am trying to get my head around this.
> 
> Is it accurate to say that when one is making a template to be used in conjunction with a guide bushing (not a bearing bit) that the offset needs to be factored into the dimension of the template being made?
> 
> ...


No mention of template guide to be used as there are a number of template guides and cutter combinations that will give 1/8th "Off-set" but only one combination of Template guide and cutter 3/8" Guide and 1/8" cutter will be suitable for what is posted
Other combinations 
1/4"cutter with a 1/2" Guide the outside perimeter will need o be increased by 3/4"
3/8" Cutter with 5/8" guide increase by 1"
1/2" Cutter with 3/4" Guide increase by 1.1/4"
ans so on


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## steveodtemplate (Nov 11, 2011)

Correction to above the template will require to be 1/2" larger to achieve what has been posted


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

steveodtemplate said:


> No mention of template guide to be used as there are a number of template guides and cutter combinations that will give 1/8th "Off-set" but only one combination of Template guide and cutter 3/8" Guide and 1/8" cutter will be suitable for what is postedOther combinations
> 1/4"cutter with a 1/2" Guide the outside perimeter will need o be increased by 3/4"
> 3/8" Cutter with 5/8" guide increase by 1"
> 1/2" Cutter with 3/4" Guide increase by 1.1/4"
> ans so on


Hi Steve - Not sure exactly what you mean here? Are you refering to the "square corner" part of the post which will change with the radius of the guide on an outside route?


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

I just got a Template Inlay guide set from Ebay, but haven't tried it out yet. It is used to route out patterns in your project from a template by adding and removing a collar on the guide pin to produce an accurate fit. It came with the guide, collar, lock nut, hex wrench and 1/8 inch bit for $20.00 and free shipping. Amazon sells the same thing from $16.95 to $39.95.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Ken Bee said:


> I just got a Template Inlay guide set from Ebay, but haven't tried it out yet. It is used to route out patterns in your project from a template by adding and removing a collar on the guide pin to produce an accurate fit. It came with the guide, collar, lock nut, hex wrench and 1/8 inch bit for $20.00 and free shipping. Amazon sells the same thing from $16.95 to $39.95.


Hi Ken - bet if ya look real close at the packaging, it'll have a Harbor Freight part number on it too. 
Solid Brass Router Inlay Kit


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just one more inlay kit

Inlay Bushing 3/8", if you want to do the job quicker..and not break a bit by using a bigger bit that will let you go faster. 

Inlay Bushing 3/8"


Just a note+++ you can use your brass guide that you have now and just make the off set ring,it's the key to the inlay kit.I made two of them one for the PC type guide and the OP type guide..easy stuff..if you want to know the size of the offset ring just ask and I will post it 


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## steveodtemplate (Nov 11, 2011)

jschaben said:


> Hi Steve - Not sure exactly what you mean here? Are you refering to the "square corner" part of the post which will change with the radius of the guide on an outside route?


*OR 1/4 of an inch "larger" if i am routing around the inside perimeter of the template?*

As you can see in my follow-up post; as I could not correct the original the above statement was incorrect


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## steveodtemplate (Nov 11, 2011)

Bobj3
Just one more inlay kit

Inlay Bushing 3/8", if you want to do the job quicker..and not break a bit by using a bigger bit that will let you go faster. 



Just a note+++ you can use your brass guide that you have now and just make the off set ring,it's the key to the inlay kit.I made two of them one for the PC type guide and the OP type guide..easy stuff..if you want to know the size of the offset ring just ask and I will post it 


===[/QUOTE]

The question was _*"and my bit to bushing offset is 1/8 of an inch is it correct to say that my template will need to be 1/4 of an inch "smaller" if I am routing around the outside perimeter of my template OR 1/4 of an inch "larger" if i am routing around the inside perimeter of the template?"*_
I was only answering Tom5151's question to inform him it will depend on the combination used as to what increase in the template size will be and the brass ring inlay kit will also require a larger template when routing round the internal perimeter of the template


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Tom5151 said:


> I am in the very early learning stages as it relates to guide bushings and templates and I am trying to get my head around this.
> 
> Is it accurate to say that when one is making a template to be used in conjunction with a guide bushing (not a bearing bit) that the offset needs to be factored into the dimension of the template being made?
> 
> ...


Notice how the cut-out is made in this shot, by gluing four pieces together. Calculating the size of the template opening is very straight forward, choose the guide and bit that you're going to use, then it's guide dia. minus bit dia. plus the size of the opening in your project. If for instance you're going to use a 0.5" guide with a 0.25" bit, then for a 6" x 6" finished opening in your project, the template opening will be: 0.5" - 0.25" + 6" = 6.25", which equates to a 1/8" offset.
It's important that you read and re-read this simple formula until it makes complete sense to you to the point that you will have no problems designing templates for the rest of your career in routing.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> Just one more inlay kit
> 
> ...


Hi Bob...I have read several places that stated their 1/8" bits broke so I began to wonder if the bits were carbide or HSS. I can understand a carbide bit being rather fragile but a HSS should take more punishment even though it wouldn't last very long before it would need to be replaced. Amana makes one that is tapered from the 1/4" shaft down to 1/8" that should hold up better than one that is cut square to the shaft like most. The bit that came with my kit is carbide and has a slight taper but not as much as I would prefer and the cutting section is over an inch long just begging to be broken. 

Now to the offset ring. I don't have the tools to make a ring as you described but it sounds like the ideal solution for bit longevity as opposed to the 1/8" bit. If you would market them you would be a thousandaire in no time flat. 

I was right about my inlay kit. It is a HF kit. For 2 cents I would return it even though the dealer said returns not accepted. What he doesn't understand is if you pay through Paypal returns can't be refused. I am going to keep it because by the time I pay postage both ways I wouldn't gain anything. Not the first time I have been bit in the posterior and probably won't be the last.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, many people break 1/8" bits because they do not give the bit time to make the cut and evacuate the chips. I learned this the expensive way like many others do. Once you consider what is happening you will stop breaking bits. Imagine trying to carve a turkey with a paring knife. Even with a sharp blade it makes very small cuts. Because of this it takes much longer to accomplish the same job that is quick and easy with a carving knife. You have to make more smaller cuts and you have to take your time to get good results. Bits work much the same way; you make more smaller cuts and take your time to get good results. If you try to make your cut at the same speed as with a larger bit you are trying to force the bit and that is when they break. To my way of thinking you are better off using inexpensive Rotozip Sabrecut HSS spiral cutting bits with a collet adapter to make 1/8" cuts than using a single flute 1/4" shank router bit. This way you have a much longer spiral cutting edge and the spiral evacuates chips far better.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Mike said:


> Ken, many people break 1/8" bits because they do not give the bit time to make the cut and evacuate the chips. I learned this the expensive way like many others do. Once you consider what is happening you will stop breaking bits. Imagine trying to carve a turkey with a paring knife. Even with a sharp blade it makes very small cuts. Because of this it takes much longer to accomplish the same job that is quick and easy with a carving knife. You have to make more smaller cuts and you have to take your time to get good results. Bits work much the same way; you make more smaller cuts and take your time to get good results. If you try to make your cut at the same speed as with a larger bit you are trying to force the bit and that is when they break. To my way of thinking you are better off using inexpensive Rotozip Sabrecut HSS spiral cutting bits with a collet adapter to make 1/8" cuts than using a single flute 1/4" shank router bit. This way you have a much longer spiral cutting edge and the spiral evacuates chips far better.


Interesting you would suggest the Roto-Zip HSS bits because I just bought a pack of 10 for my Dremel tool. I have used them several times to rout out small holes and they do hold up very well. My original plan was to use my Dremel tool with the plunge base and free hand my inlays, or at least try I should say. Thanks for the input and I shall try your suggestions.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

The HSS bits will not stand up to the heat that's to say they get hot real quick and once they do it's a tent stake..or bad nail ...

I have found out over a long time the longer the carb. 1/8" bit, they will stand up to the hard job..BUT they still like to snap off easy.the harder the bit the easy-er it will snap off so it's a trade off..some off the 1/8" bits they sale with inlay kits are short that's a real down fall with them because they need to be long to go into the stem of the guide and then 1/4" deep into the stock without getting stuck in the small guide hole, so it's a buy be ware thing..you will see the long type in the snapshots I posted..

" thousandaire in no time " I wish that to be so but they make and sale the bigger guides..on the Net..but in sets the norm.
Here's just one of them But you can buy the just the Bushing & Key also from some web sites.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=41779&cat=1,43000,51208,41779
http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping/Instructions.aspx?p=40701

As far as your ebay set it's no big , you can't have to many and you can take that to the bank LOL, once you get into using them..many times you will want to use one of the longer ones in your router table so to say you don't want all your guides to be the short 1/4" type...once it's cut off it's gone and you can't get it back...so many ways to use guides it's hard to tell you of all of them..

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Ken Bee said:


> Hi Bob...I have read several places that stated their 1/8" bits broke so I began to wonder if the bits were carbide or HSS. I can understand a carbide bit being rather fragile but a HSS should take more punishment even though it wouldn't last very long before it would need to be replaced. Amana makes one that is tapered from the 1/4" shaft down to 1/8" that should hold up better than one that is cut square to the shaft like most. The bit that came with my kit is carbide and has a slight taper but not as much as I would prefer and the cutting section is over an inch long just begging to be broken.
> 
> Now to the offset ring. I don't have the tools to make a ring as you described but it sounds like the ideal solution for bit longevity as opposed to the 1/8" bit. If you would market them you would be a thousandaire in no time flat.
> 
> I was right about my inlay kit. It is a HF kit. For 2 cents I would return it even though the dealer said returns not accepted. What he doesn't understand is if you pay through Paypal returns can't be refused. I am going to keep it because by the time I pay postage both ways I wouldn't gain anything. Not the first time I have been bit in the posterior and probably won't be the last.


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## steveodtemplate (Nov 11, 2011)

Tom5151 said:


> I am in the very early learning stages as it relates to guide bushings and templates and I am trying to get my head around this.
> 
> Is it accurate to say that when one is making a template to be used in conjunction with a guide bushing (not a bearing bit) that the offset needs to be factored into the dimension of the template being made?
> 
> ...


Taking a tip from Mike and using Graph Paper to make the calculations


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