# Whiteside dovetail bits not lasting long for me



## AronD (Apr 3, 2013)

First off, I apologize if this is in the wrong section (should it have been in the "Bits" section?).

OK, onto a short history lesson then the questions. I recently acquired the Porter-Cable 12" Dovetail Jig for the construction of beehive boxes so that I can start raising bees this year. I am using my dads router, a Double Insulated Craftsman Router,Model #31517400 which uses a 1/4" bit shank. The router has been working fine for both free hand and table mounted use. I ordered a set of dovetail bits in 1/4" shanks so they would match my router (the bits where the Whiteside replacement bits for this specific jig, but in 1/4" shank rather than 1/2" shank). I am cutting 3/4" deep dovetails in 1x8 and 1x10 non pressure treated white pine. The bits worked fine for the first few boxes ( dovetails on all 4 sides, dont know the distance between of the tails and pins but I can post that later if needed), but after the sixth box (out of about 10) the bits seamed to have lost their edge. The wood started to splinter on the edges and I had to push harder just to make the cuts. I am familiar with knife edges and how you can ruin the temper by getting the edge to hot (amateur knife maker), but I don't think I got the bits to hot. I took my time between the cuts and kept the bits clean.

OK, now that I have bored you with too much information, here's my questions. Have I actually "used up" the bits already? Is there a specific speed I should run dovetail bits? What have I done wrong to end these bits life so soon?

The strait bit is the bit that suffered the worst and its now burnt ( I apologize for burning a bit) I am cutting with the grain of the wood (cutting the ends of the boards), I didn't think that would matter much if any though.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Aron.

I would make sure that you are not trying to cut too quickly. Dovetail cutters, IMO, should be taken slightly slower than a straight cutter due to shape and chip clearance.

A 3/4" x 1/2" dovetail is a deep cut.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Aron, the burnt straight bit is a big clue to a short life span. This tells us the bit is working too hard to remove the material. Remember that a 1/4" bit takes three times longer to make a cut than a 1/2" bit. Smaller clearance in the bits profile means it takes a lot longer to evacuate the chips too. In the case of the straight bit try using a solid carbide spiral up cut bit. This design works like a drill bit to help evacuate the chips. This helps to reduce the heat build up. You can reduce the amount of work your dovetail bit is doing by making a pass with the straight bit first. With less material to remove the dovetail bit will not have to work as hard; again this will help reduce heat build up. Straight bits are cheaper than dovetail bits so anything you can do to prolong bit life will save you money. If you have a dust collection adapter use it, the vacuum helps remove the chips faster and pulls cooler air over the bit. While bits this size can be run at full speed many routers run at higher speeds to boost the hp rating. 20K rpm should be about right, consult your owners manual for speed settings. One last thing to remember: you guide your router not push it. Give the cutter time to do the work. Everyone tends to go faster than they should trying to finish the job quicker. Whiteside bits are top quality and should last you longer than the amount of use you have been getting out of them.


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## Leifs1 (Dec 16, 2009)

Mike said:


> Aron, the burnt straight bit is a big clue to a short life span. This tells us the bit is working too hard to remove the material. Remember that a 1/4" bit takes three times longer to make a cut than a 1/2" bit. Smaller clearance in the bits profile means it takes a lot longer to evacuate the chips too. In the case of the straight bit try using a solid carbide spiral up cut bit. This design works like a drill bit to help evacuate the chips. This helps to reduce the heat build up. You can reduce the amount of work your dovetail bit is doing by making a pass with the straight bit first. With less material to remove the dovetail bit will not have to work as hard; again this will help reduce heat build up. Straight bits are cheaper than dovetail bits so anything you can do to prolong bit life will save you money. If you have a dust collection adapter use it, the vacuum helps remove the chips faster and pulls cooler air over the bit. While bits this size can be run at full speed many routers run at higher speeds to boost the hp rating. 20K rpm should be about right, consult your owners manual for speed settings. One last thing to remember: you guide your router not push it. Give the cutter time to do the work. Everyone tends to go faster than they should trying to finish the job quicker. Whiteside bits are top quality and should last you longer than the amount of use you have been getting out of them.


Hei Mike. everything you say is right but I don't think Aron used a 1/4" bit. Only one with a 1/4" shank. ?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I've used Whiteside bits before with no problem. And all my routers take 1/4" shanks. I can use 1/2" bits (1/4" shanks) and do quite a bit of hogging in 1/2" plywood with no problem, try it in 3/4" plywood, major problem. I agree, you're probably trying to go too fast. I'd make sure I got carbide tipped bits every time, if you don't already.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

You may also be getting a lot of pitch on the bits from the pine, you may have to clean them every few boxes as well to help with the heat transfer.

the flat edges of carbide bits can be honed with a diamond file

Router Bits 101 - YouTube starting at the 5 minute mark for cleaning, and about the 6 min mark for honing.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Leif, my comment about the 1/4" bit and 1/2" bit is to explain the difference in cutting time in relationship to the size of the bit.

By the way, I got an email from Whiteside about this thread. They are one company who checks in on the forums to see what is going on in the world of routing. I like that.


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## bnaboatbuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

I bet he is getting a lot of pitch buildup and that's making the bit work harder. Clean, shiny, sharp edges on any cutting tool is important.

I just cleaned my table saw blades the other day, probably been a year since last done, and the difference was visibly noticeable. You don't realize how much gunk builds.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi Aron, I would call Whiteside and explain to them what is going on. I am sure they will be very helpful. I only buy Whiteside because I have never found any better, and I support *MADE IN USA* products when I can.


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## AronD (Apr 3, 2013)

Thanks for the information guys, and thanks Whiteside for looking in.

First off I'd like to say that the bits worked as intended, I just didn't use them quite right (did a little more reading today). The wood I started cutting was cypress, then I did some white pine followed my 3/4" BC plywood (pine). I'll just explain my wood project if you dont mind me rambling more.

I am building beehive boxes as explained before. I built 6 boxes out of cypress 1x8 and 1x10 ( apologizes, I said the boxes where pine before). Then I did some cutting on white pine followed by 4 more boxes out of 3/4" BC plywood. The bits worked great through the cypress, cutting clean and preforming well until the very last few cuts. Thats when they started to show their wear. This was just due to the fact that I had been cutting the cypress all day and the bits where a bit dirty. The bits where cleaned and put away until the next use where I used them on, which was on pine and plywood. They started slowing their cuts when I used them on plywood. I figured it was because of the glue and sap/pitch from the plywood and pine combined, but I was in a time crunch to get the hives done on time so I didn't keep the bits as clean as they should have been. (found out yesterday that I didn't have to rush things, bees wont come in for another week).

So yes, I neglected the care of my bits that day and now I am paying the price...just ordered a new strait bit. And I am making 3/4" deep dovetails, so I'll have to pay closer attention to dust and chip removal.

I did not think of using a strait bit to remove material before I used my dovetail bit, interesting. Thanks for the tip Mike.

I am using a single speed, 1/4" shank router, as stated before. Its nothing fancy but its hung in there and I like it. It does not have a vacuum attachment, but I dont think having a vacuum on the router would help much in this case anyways. All the chips and dust is below around the bit. I dont know to much about other router designs so I dont know what I'm really talking about  As soon as I can I'll post picture of the jig I'm using, the table I recently built and am very proud of, and of my router and projects (I like posting pictures).


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Aron, we love photos of projects and they help to explain the process to other members.

If you have not tried Trend Tool and Bit Cleaner you should. It works great, is easy to use and inexpensive. I asked Marc Sommerfeld to try it and he now sells it on his site. Priced at about $11 it will last you a long time. This product is the best I have tried at removing rust too. I have to move my jointer outside to have room to work so it gets drenched from time to time. I can restore it in about 20 minutes with this product.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Mike said:


> By the way, I got an email from Whiteside about this thread. They are one company who checks in on the forums to see what is going on in the world of routing. I like that.


Hey Whiteside, I like your bits. Send me half a dozen 1/4" shank, two each of 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" flush trim pattern bits please. Thank you. :lol:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

It was worth a shot Theo but I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## AronD (Apr 3, 2013)

I do apologize for not responding sooner, but the summer work has started for me already.

Anyways, here are a few pics of the project I was working on. Second pic is of the plywood boxes, and the third is the cypress. The last two pics are of the bee boxes (just the hive bodies for now) put together. The top (roof and sides) are plywood, the brighter colored and smaller box below it is a feeder (white pine, it needs more staining). And the bottom box (hive body) is cypress (4 coats of stain). I had little time to work on these boxes so tats why they are not all stained properly and why the roof is not copper plaited yet (copper plaiting is just for looks). After the bees get established and I get the rest of the hive put together, I'll upload more pics.

I finally got the new strait bit in and got around to using it. I decreased the depth of the cuts to 3/8" and made two passes, instead of one pass at 3/4". It cuts very well on the white pine and cypress but it still hates plywood, which was to be expected. I spent a few hours and cleaned up my other bits and I can see the improvement.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Nice result, Aron.


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*whiteside router bits*

Hi Aron your best bet with those bee hives is to butt joint them glue and screw five screws to a corner. for your glue use good water proof glue. I make hives on a commercial scale any where between 80 and 150 hives per month for the past 26 years and found that is for me the easiest way. regards carl


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Aron, Aren't Beehives supposed to be white to keep the hive cool? There are thousands of beehives within a mile of my house and everyone I have seen is painted white. Just curious, and by the way, your dovetails look very nicely executed! Welcome to the Router Forums, also!
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## AronD (Apr 3, 2013)

Carl, I have seen conventional boxes and I just wasn't impressed. Everyone has the same and while it may work for them, I wanted something more personal. The way I did mine took a little longer, but I think it was worth it.

OPG3, The white boxes may reduce some of the heat, but in retrospect it doesn't really matter. Obviously you dont want to cook your bees, but you cant install AC for them either. So far they dont seam to have any problems with heat. The hives your seeing are standard,mass produced boxes. They are cheap and they work (nothing wrong with that mentality).


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*bee hives*

Hi Aron I must agree your hives are of good quality for ventilation you could use a hole saw and make eight holes in the inner lid then glue very fine mesh over the holes in summer you just put a few small blocks on each corner which will help greatly in keeping the hive cool and ventilated . here in S A we get temperatures of about 40 degrees C . regards carl


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## AronD (Apr 3, 2013)

Funny you should bring that up Carl. My dad and I had a conversation about that just yesterday. We are thinking of either cutting 1/4" wide slits on the inner lid and put screen on top to allow ventilation, or completely remove the inner lid and just put a fine mesh screen up there.


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*vetilation*

Hi Aron which ever route you take it is very important that the hives are well aired during summer I do not know what temperatures you get to in your neck of the woods so only you can decide that route. best regards carl


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