# I can't dovetail & I wanna hurl.



## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

hi everybody

I just got my 1st router & got the basics ie edging, trimming etc perfectly fine. Ive also made 20 odd (lap joints) cabinets before so I'm no wood virgin as such..

..but BIG probs here with my new simple (1/2 blind) dovetail jig deWalt de6251. Ive seen the 5m www clips, in-depth manuals etc but I've now spent 8 hrs -with utmost care- trying completely in vain to simply get one tail to fit one pin  ALL are too tight; whether I use the bit at a max depth (1mm say from the top of the scrap piece) or at its min (1mm away from hitting the bush centre!), or, even if I increace slightly the size of either pin or tail to its corresponding mate.. I'm utterly exhausted, confused and plain pi**ed (-off, I'm from the UK I'm afraid)

can anyone help? know this jig, tips, been here/done that mistake etc..?

thanks, capt.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Can you give us some details such as, What bit no. and make also some pics of what you are doing. If pins are too tight, a touch more depth with the bit is standard. I'm not that familiar with the Jig, Does that use dovetail bit on both sides as i suspect? Check on the bottom of this page, and you Will find similar post.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI captain

It sounds like you need to go back to square one with the setup of jig.
The edge spacer must be right on ,, it takes two parts to make the dovetail joint ,if one is not set right it will not fit 

Here's a little tip pull the dovetail bit out of the router and pop in a 3/8" strait bit, set it to cut 3/8" deep like the norm, make a pass in both boards, then pull the boards out and check the slot on both, use this to setup the spacers.

It's true that the dovetail bit must be set right but if the parts are not in line it will never fit.. 


The de6251 dovetail is like many others on the market now days,,

http://www.mtmc.co.uk/prodtype.asp?cookiecheck=yes&PT_ID=12710114

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the captain said:


> hi everybody
> 
> I just got my 1st router & got the basics ie edging, trimming etc perfectly fine. Ive also made 20 odd (lap joints) cabinets before so I'm no wood virgin as such..
> 
> ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Captain, please fill in your profile so we know where you live. This is to help find other woodworkers in your area, so we can best assist you with any problems and tell you about special events in your area.


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## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

Hi folks, thanks for replies (I had thought subscription/ 1st thread all AWOL so great its up & running).

I'm still at a dead-loss with this. 16+ hrs & still not one pin into one tail..

Ive phoned deWalt 3 long calls, made a whole router base to use the larger bush (nb both bushes spindles/ centres fit the template same, snugly). Another batch of scrap tests at various depths of bit, including adjusting the pin depth slightly (both ways) correleating to the tail depth- which I shouldn't need to do anyway..

EXACTLY the same results. Not one pin fits one tail. They do marry-up perfectly in profile (so adjusting the spacer is neither here nor there). But just TOO TIGHT!?!

deWalt were puzzled, but sent me an 'older' manual of the jig too, which shows the same depth bit 12.7mm as I have, so I'm inclined to believe my bit IS meant for these bushes/ templates as one would expect from a new unit.

Logic tells me it can ONLY be a larger bit to make a larger 'hole' though.. so Ive ordered a 14.3mm depth bit for a trial.. I BET £100 the joins will be too loose then mind you..


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

*Hang in there!*

I know that what ever you find to be the problem, It's likely to be a faulty part, or something like that. Please inform us when the problem is resolved, and fill us in. We can then file that for future reference. I know that are very exhaustive, but hang in there. You'll become an expert, in your own right from the Trouble you've been through.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Captain

Do double check the guide and the dovetail bit you are using, they must be the right ones for the jig you are using,, the manual should say what they should be...
The guide should just slide into the finger template with almost no play at all, the bit should be a 1/2" 14 deg. the norm..
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## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

Absolutely the 1st things I checked A) all stuff present B) bit and bushes measure as per manual- as I presumed marrying these to each other most important.

Manual says 1/4", 12.7mm bit. My bit measures 1/2".. but this IS effectively a 12.7mm according to deWalt. 

Bushes slide in/out of template perfectly with no play.

The only discrepency is between the units manual & the 'old' version of same (badged Elu, a pdf sent by email from deWalt): this manual's bit diagram has the 12.7mm depth (measuring across the base of bit) PLUS two tiny 'wings' to the cutters edges, at base, which add a small cutout 'trench' (for glue presumably etc). These add say ~2mm to the base depth (diagram measures these at 14.3mm) but actual depth remains at 12.7mm.. but trench or not, the walls will STILL be cut at 15 degrees & to the 12.7mm 'real' depth.. so it would STILL be the same with this odd bit: too tight.

WTF is going on.. Ive never been so flummoxed by anything in my life!


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Capt., here is a video showing the set-up and use of a through-dovetail jig. I know it isn't exactly like yours, but maybe watching this you can pick up on something you may or may not be doing right or wrong (how clear is that?). All dovetail jigs are basically the same, so maybe this will help...

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/dovetailjig.html

Just scroll down the page a little for the video.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Captain

This may help
http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/04/30/podcast-20-machine-cut-dovetails/


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## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

thanks again chaps, most helpful with the videos; have seen both, but result still eludes me:

Both these/ manuals/ other vids/ help here/ other help etc say that for a looser fit, decreace depth of bit. Ive done so till the bit's so high up its almost hitting the bush. 1/2" bit I have. Bushes fit template. Manual (& calls to deWalt) shows I have correct bit, template, bushes. 

All too tight. nearly 3 whole days spent on this now!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi captain

It may be time to start over with a new type of dovetail jig, like the Katie or the Gifkins almost no setup needed just pop in the bit and put the dovetail in place...


http://www.gifkins.com.au/
http://www.katiejig.com/

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the captain said:


> thanks again chaps, most helpful with the videos; have seen both, but result still eludes me:
> 
> Both these/ manuals/ other vids/ help here/ other help etc say that for a looser fit, decreace depth of bit. Ive done so till the bit's so high up its almost hitting the bush. 1/2" bit I have. Bushes fit template. Manual (& calls to deWalt) shows I have correct bit, template, bushes.
> 
> All too tight. nearly 3 whole days spent on this now!


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## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

Bobj3 I think you're right. As you can tell I'm pretty determined, but any more time is pointless now. besides a bigger bit will mean weaker (thinner at base) tails.

Ok afresh: watching curious george's great mlcs video clip I'm going to ditch d'tail jigs & go for an mlcs BOX JOINT template (#6409), similar to ones in vid (if cost feasable: shipping even for small items via companies always huge from Uk to Us for some reason). 

So anyone used these mlcs ones? I *presume* they are made exact for a tight *ish* fit ie exact room for glue/ a perfect finished boxjoint.. as afaict, unlike dovetail jigs, the cutout cannot be altered in any way at all. 

thanks folks, capt


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi captain

I have two of the MLCS dovetail jigs and they work great but I don't have the Box joint jig from MLCS I use the Oak-Park box joint jigs because they work the best and are sold at the right price..

see the jigs in the background of the picture below.. 
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the captain said:


> Bobj3 I think you're right. As you can tell I'm pretty determined, but any more time is pointless now. besides a bigger bit will mean weaker (thinner at base) tails.
> 
> Ok afresh: watching curious george's great mlcs video clip I'm going to ditch d'tail jigs & go for an mlcs BOX JOINT template (#6409), similar to ones in vid (if cost feasable: shipping even for small items via companies always huge from Uk to Us for some reason).
> 
> ...


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## the captain (Oct 29, 2008)

many thanks all for the excellent help- 

BobJ those jigs you've made look great/given me a good plan for a similar clamp-either-side idea with the mlcs box-jig on its way across the pond.. Im gonna use the bad d'tail jig I have, strip it down & just use the base with its vertical (front one) bar-clamp as is. Then I take off the top bar & its two do-up clamp nuts & set these 3 into the new wood block front (mlcs jig screwed into its top). Then clamp the two sections together with the 'wood-to-be-routed' sandwiched between.. job's a good'un!

Ill post a pic if puzzled/ once done (i -think- it's gonna work?!?) cheers capt


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi "the Capitan:" you sound like I did on my first attempt. 

I collected together a bunch of manuals and started to compare them. Once I'd read several, I started to get a clearer picture.

Start with this manual. Once you get beyond the window dressing, it is identical to yours. http://www.ptreeusa.com/dovetail jig instructions.pdf

Next, read your manual again. Follow the Woodstock manual to the letter and don't skip a step. Check and double check each paragraph and tick it off. It ain't gonna work if you miss a single detail. Once you have done a "test" joint and it sort of goes together, it will all come clear when you come close and once you see it, correcting the problems will become clear.

I must have tried 20 times until I got all of the details "just right." Percerverance and faith. It can be done. Millions have done it before you. Just be thankful you don't have to do it with a dovetail saw and chisel ;-)


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