# Anyone use a CNC routers here?



## kustomkoncepts (Oct 22, 2007)

I am in the right place I think but there don't seem to be very much CNC stuff or users in the CNC portion of this fourm. 

I am looking at a somewhat big investment and want to here from other cnc owners.

I have decided that Shop Sabre is a good machine in my price range. 20k

I will be cutting signs, carving 3D designs, Cutting dementional signs, V Carving signs and hand painting. 

what has any of you heard or from Shop Sabre 4x8 cnc's?

what CNC do you all have and what programs do you run?

I have seen EnRoute Pro but it is $6,000.00 for the program. I am going to start out on V Carve from Vectric they also have Carve 3D and Photo Carve programs all three are $1,000 

Thank you


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

There are a few that have built CNC tables for a router, etc.

Do a search for CNC... they are there...

Looks like FUN stuff to do...


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## kustomkoncepts (Oct 22, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> There are a few that have built CNC tables for a router, etc.
> 
> Do a search for CNC... they are there...
> 
> Looks like FUN stuff to do...



I did a search for CNC or this site and even though I am posting this in the CNC SECTION of your fourm I seem to be talking Greek to you all. a CNC is a Computer Numeric Controled Machine. You design your work in a 3D program and apply Tool Paths to it and the computer cuts it out with a High speed Spindle not a router attachement.

Sorry a hand router mounted on some Ready Rod with a woden frame though cool that you can build that and make it work, it is not what I am looking for.
I am looking for other people who own and opperate at least a 4'x8' Minimum sized computer controled machine.

I think I am in the wrong forum its seems that the closest thing to cnc here is the carvwright machine. I will keep searching the web for other sign shop CNC forums. Thank you all for your time.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi kustomkoncepts

The forum is geared up more for the home work shop and it sounds like you are in the big time of CNC machines...  15,000.oo to 30,000.oo+ type.

I would recommend doing a search on the Net and then ask the Mfg. for a list of users and ask them what they think... 

It's like asking how many on the forum have a 3Phz. router, you will not get to many that can come back to you.  if any,,,, 

http://www.techno-isel.com/CNC_Routers/index.htm?pmc=Isel-1&gclid=CJDjkaWBnpACFRuhFQod9Hac7w
==============


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## kustomkoncepts (Oct 22, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi kustomkoncepts
> 
> The forum is geared up more for the home work shop and it sounds like you are in the big time of CNC machines...  15,000.oo to 30,000.oo+ type.
> 
> ...



Yeah I think this may not be exactly what I need but I thank you all for your time. a member PM me and said www.cnczone.com is a good place for what I am looking for. the sad thing is I consider myself with my 30K cnc a entry level beginer machine there are cnc's for 250,000 to a half Million. thank you all again.


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## DougO (Jan 4, 2006)

When you went to cnczone.com, did you click on the "forum" tab on the top left of the page? Do it Yourself machines that cost a couple of hundred dollars to the very high end machines are all covered. I have been looking at the different machines and I am leaning toward the ShopBot. You can get a very nice one in your price range. You don't hear of a ShopBot owner talking bad about their machine and they have their own forum where you can find all the help you need (if you need it).


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## RickWilliams86 (Nov 12, 2007)

I run a Shopbot for my brother it's a older machine and I am just starting to learn.
But it's really cool the Shopbot forum and Shopbot have been real helpful for me.
I didn't look at any other's cause this is what he bought.


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## twigstyle (Mar 18, 2009)

The Sabre is a great machine,but I highly recomend upgrading from the start to a spindle motor.you wont be dissappointed.


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

I own an EZ router, 4'x4' machine. I use V carve and have begun using Aspire. I do similar work to what you will be doing. I have heard very little from users of Shop Sabre machines, but everything has been positive. I agree with the spindle comments....you won't be disappointed.


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

This is a pretty old thread, but I am hoping that we can get a few more CNCer's here to start some good discussion on the topic. Some of you with machines may want to post some experiences in order to increase exposure on this forum. Just a thought.


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

*CNC Router guy??*

Yeah I just read this thread.

I am a full CNC guy.

I sent a PM and an email to the guy.

I also have searched around the web for a CNC "home". Not much out there.

Oh there are a couple of places, CNC zone is a "raw" place. I know how the guy feels, as a hobbist trying to get the "BIG" guys to hlp him.

I am a "BIG" guy in the metal cutting world. Been doing that all day every day for the last 30 years on $300,000 - $600,000 machines. 

Nah - it is really hard for a hobbist and a BIG GUN to have hobby communications.

Even when I am training a new emloyee. or training a Voke Tech graduate, I need to back down into basics. I need to know, that I need to do that.

Still - its difficult to find a hobby CNC wood/brass/plastic, hobby forum.

I know a couple of places - sorry, but this is not it. I don't know how to make it happen either.

At any rate - I do stop in here from time to time.

my email is active - I get emeil alerts for PM's - so if anyone is inclined - send me a meggage.


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## awerby (Dec 15, 2008)

I built a medium-sized 4-axis CNC router out of automation actuators and an Ebay rotary table; it actually works pretty well. The actuators come with slides and ball-screws in a compact and easily adapted-to package, so I felt they were a good place to start (plus I got them pretty inexpensively). I've been into making sculpture from natural objects I scan with 3d scanners for some time now, and it's nice to have the capacity to do bigger things. Plenty of people build machines of their own, either through cheapness or wanting something they can't find on the market - in my case it was a bit of both. 

Andrew Werby


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

I wish I had the skill to build one.

I might be able to do the mechanical stuff - but the electrical and electronis stuff is totally beyond me.

I got a SUPER SUPER deal on mine - otherwise I would NOT be able to own one at all.

Someday it will wear out then I will not have it anymore.

I hope to sell enough and bank some money to replace it when it goes. For now - it is like brand new.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Got any pictures articfox?????????


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## RickWilliams86 (Nov 12, 2007)

oomlout dot com/cnc1 dot html


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## mike65072 (Apr 27, 2009)

I just joined this forum a few minutes ago and saw this thread. I'm retired, but work part-time at a small woodworking shop. I run a Gerber Sabre 408 CNC machine. Not exactly a homeowner machine (around $50K) , but sure is fun to play with. We make personalized kids items (step stools, coat racks, puzzles etc).


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

Hi Mike,

I watch this thread from time to time.

Seems like it has potential to be a nice CNC router forum - just needs some activity.

There are many people trying to get started into CNC routing. 

I am very lucky to have the machine I do have - and I do CNC machining at an engineering level for a living.

I am hoping to see some axtivity here some day.

I am around - my email receives messages - I can help.

Currently, I have SolidWorks, Vectric VCarve Pro 5.0, Cut 3D, Photo V-Carve and I am well versed in GCode. I am also quite familiar with cutting tools.

If I am not here - email me.


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## davidbarr (Apr 28, 2009)

Arcticfox46 said:


> I wish I had the skill to build one.
> 
> I might be able to do the mechanical stuff - but the electrical and electronis stuff is totally beyond me.
> 
> ...


Wiring a cnc is not all that difficult. I thought the same as you. But I had no choice if I hadn't built my own I would not own one. If you or any one wanted to build one and needed some help wiring the motors there are a lot of resources out there. I'd be willing to help as best I could.


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

davidbarr said:


> Wiring a cnc is not all that difficult. I thought the same as you. But I had no choice if I hadn't built my own I would not own one. If you or any one wanted to build one and needed some help wiring the motors there are a lot of resources out there. I'd be willing to help as best I could.



I don't really have the room for it - unless I build it in my OLD workshop in the cellar, but I really would like to build a machine that could either take a full sheet of ply or at least a half sheet.

The machine I have now - can handle 24" x 24". I can cut aluminum on it, and I can use it to build bigger machine. I would build it out of aluminum - not wood.

Someday - in the distant future.

I have two big projects in the works right now.

1- to build a changing table / dresser for my first grandchild - due in October.

2- I am going to build a strip built kayak.

Sooo - any CNC work is for now - just going to be signs and crafts and stuff like that.


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## davidbarr (Apr 28, 2009)

It'd be neat if you monograhmed the changing table with the cnc. That way it could be passed on as a family heirloom.


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## RickWilliams86 (Nov 12, 2007)

*Just in case someone wants to build a small CNC*

Here's one that might be consider a hobbyist CNC
They say you can build for about 600 bucks with parts that are easy to find.

Check out the address below they wont allow me to port urls until I have 10 post

oomlout.com/cnc1


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## cdndave (Apr 2, 2009)

Another place that has an inexpensive CNC build is buildyourcnc dot com

The site has a series of videos showing how your can build a CNC with basic hand tools.

Dave


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## Don Butler (Mar 31, 2009)

I have a CarveWright.
I haven't done a LOT of work with it, but I like it and have no regrets in buying it.

But then, I never saw a tool I didn't like.

d


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## laurence (Jul 17, 2009)

I have owned a couple CNC routerd on found that most routers work fine. It's the software that can be the problem. Routers are stupid a do what there are told. The software has to do what you want it to, 2D, 3D, Carving, or? All routers will do these things. If the software is to hard to use, or there is no training, you will be pulling your hair out.


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## Don Butler (Mar 31, 2009)

My little, baby's toy (by comparison) is a CarveWright.
People interested in commercial applications will have little regard for it and, of course, that's normal. 
Although it certainly is a CNC machine, it is so simple I have no idea what machine language lies behind the design software that comes with it. I design with visual concepts, not numbers. The work size is tiny compared to the big machines.

Still, most people who come to my shop are amazed that one old, retired-for-years, ex techno geek would have such a machine. I guess they expect I do my work with a bowsaw and hand planes, not things like CarveWright and Legacy Ornamental Mill.

Counting the CarveWright, I have 5 or 6 routers, so I guess I fit with most of the members on this board.

Don "Dances with Wood" Butler


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## Woodprof (Jul 28, 2009)

Check out the designs we can make on the web based sign design system. Some samples are given in my gallery.
Cheers
Sanjeev


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## Woodprof (Jul 28, 2009)

To make an object on the CNC router you need a CAD model and a CAM software to produce a tool path. We have a web based sign design system for making designs and tool paths. The user goes to the web and designs the part they want (limited spectrum of part can be made) and once satisfied they can make a tool path automatically.
The parts in my gallery were designed using this system.
If people have interest I will open my website for viewing and testing.
cheers
Woodprof


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## FatFreddysCat (Apr 5, 2009)

kustomkoncepts said:


> You design your work in a 3D program and apply Tool Paths to it and the computer cuts it out with a High speed Spindle not a router attachement.


Really? Most woodworking CNC routers are used to machine/drill panel components (we use ours to mill Corian and MDF retail stand parts). That means most are 2-1/2D machines, in othger words that 3rd axis interpolation is rarely required, so most CAD-CAM is done in good old-fashioned AutoCAD or similar products. We do a small amount of 3D work, but about 2% of our total output. For serious work you start at $50k (new) and up which is hardly a place many people will go. Even a secondhand machine like our Rye MG (4 head/8 drills) will cost $15k and upwards. I've had experience with Rye, Wadkin, SCM and Biesse so if you want to talk CNC I'll chime in


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

*Did I miss something?*



FatFreddysCat said:


> Really? Most woodworking CNC routers are used to machine/drill panel components (we use ours to mill Corian and MDF retail stand parts). That means most are 2-1/2D machines, in othger words that 3rd axis interpolation is rarely required, so most CAD-CAM is done in good old-fashioned AutoCAD or similar products. We do a small amount of 3D work, but about 2% of our total output. For serious work you start at $50k (new) and up which is hardly a place many people will go. Even a secondhand machine like our Rye MG (4 head/8 drills) will cost $15k and upwards. I've had experience with Rye, Wadkin, SCM and Biesse so if you want to talk CNC I'll chime in


HUH??? -- Freddy -- Did I miss something here??

"MOST" CNC routers are used for mill drill circuit boards?? 3D is not necessary?

Most Cad "cam??" is done in AutoCAD?? AutoCAD does not even do CAM.

I can do some "serious" work on a benchtop 3 axis machine.

BTW - I have just spend the last 30 years in industrial CNC manufacturing.

For simple drilling of hole locations - I don't need any CAD or CAM. I can do all that with a pencil and paper.

Heck - for that matter - I am currently programming a $400,000 8 axis Mill/Turn without CAM.

Particularily in the hobby woodworking setting - there is AMPLE opportunity for 3D routing. I would venture to say - Sign Making in itself is a 3D world of routing.

Yes, there is a lot that can be done in 2-1/2 D, but I would not shy away from the 3D world. 

Just curious -- where do you get your statistics from??


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## Woodprof (Jul 28, 2009)

If you note the parts displayed in the gallery offer embossed letters. These result in a 3D model of the part. Also all the parts shown inthe gallery have a textured background. This also requires 3D modelling and 3D tool path planning. We are testing tools that allow automated modelling based on user selection and user specified text. In addition we are also testing automatic tool path creation. This is aimed to simplify design and machining of signs. Our site is called Watsign (try in two days).
Cheers
WoodProf


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## R.C. (Aug 5, 2009)

I use a 5 axis Thermwood and a 3 axis Northwood

Have used a Shop bot in the past using Bob Cam


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## TemeculaTom (Aug 7, 2009)

kustomkoncepts
For the type of router you are looking for contact Steve @ Cutting Edge Systems - 949/756-0266.
If that number is not good call EpilogLaser @ 303/277-1188.
He has a nice entry level SMALL wood router.
TemWood


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## TemeculaTom (Aug 7, 2009)

You may also want to touch base with [email protected]
TemWood


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## rocket67 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hi all, I am new to this Forum, but know of the originator of this thread.

KustomKoncepts did indeed buy a CNC Router. He has a ShopSabre machine.
They are excellent machines.

Kustom and myself and cabnet636 were posting on CNCzone a couple of years ago as we were trying to decide which Commercial CNC Router to buy for each of our businesses.

Kustom bought the ShopSabre, cabnet636 bought a Camaster, and we bought an Excitech from China.

They have all proven to be great machines.

Have not heard from Kustom for a long time on CNCzone. I hope he comes across this thread and continues it forward.

Rocket.


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## cnc-wood-routing (Aug 30, 2009)

Also try looking on youtube, you might get someone who has built one there and it will guide you through it.


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## Don Butler (Mar 31, 2009)

I hesitate to post here. I have a CarveWright, technically a CNC router, but certainly NOT in the league with big 4x8 machines.
I'm just beginning to rise on the front part of the learning curve and would enjoy hearing from others using the CarveWright or its private labelled cousin CompuCarve. They're the same machine.
For the benefit of those who didn't know, these machines do not come to us from foreign shores. They're made in Texas by the engineering frim that designed the machine.
CarveWright is capable of quite elegant 3 axis work. 
I've just begun to draw on its capabilities. 
I also have a router based machine that can do some surprising things, but it is mechanically controlled rather than CNC. It's the Legacy Ornamental Mill, Model 1500EX.
I wonder if there's any Legacy Mill owner here on this forum?

Kindest regards,
Don


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## rocket67 (Aug 30, 2009)

Hi Don, Cabnet on the CNCzone cut his teeth in CNC Routers with his Carvewright machine. He says it is a ripper machine with a software program that is quite easy to learn.

In the USA you guys are very fortunate to have a lot of CNC Router Manufacturers. There is ShopSabre, Shopbot, Techno, Camaster and many others. On our side of the world we rely on Chinese Imports which are excellent value for money for us.

Rocket.


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## ryanney (Nov 18, 2009)

ROcket 67

Can you elaborate on your chinese router experience, reliability, quality of machone etc?


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## rocket67 (Aug 30, 2009)

*All Good!*

G`day Ryanney, We now have a total of 4 chinese made CNC Routers.

One from sh-cnc - Excitech, and Three from Jinan Quick CNC Router Co. Ltd.

Our first machine - the Excitech is now a couple of years old and continues to perform without problems. The Quick CNC machines are also very good.

Check out my Thread about the machines on the CNCzone.com

Jinan Quick CNC Router Purchases - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!

Consider that in Australia - we do not have access to the many machines that are made in the USA. At least not at reasonable prices.

The Chinese machines are strong, well built and reliable. However, do not expect a good set of instructions.The finishing off of the machines leaves a bit to be desired. Expect to find drill swarf in the gantry side covers and bits of wire offcuts in the control box. Nothing a good clean cannot fix.

Most info about them is posted on the CNCzone.com

If you are located in the USA also check out the Camaster machines.

Rocket.


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## Leather Hands (Dec 17, 2009)

I am a Die Maker by trade and use a Gerber Profile Router. 

The maker of my router is Gerber scientific. They also make a router for sign making called the Sabre. These machines are a bit pricy but I consider them to be top of the line in quality and service. Do a search on Gerber Scientific and check it out. Let me know if you have any questions about these types of machines


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## tomw (Sep 25, 2009)

I have the SharkPro and use V-Carve plus BobCad. Overall travel is 24 x 24. This is a great size for what I do given the space for the unit in my shop, as well. This is a whole new game for me - doing this on the computer. I have not had the time to really get into everything these two program are capable of, but then it's only today.


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## mike65072 (Apr 27, 2009)

Leather Hands said:


> I am a Die Maker by trade and use a Gerber Profile Router.
> 
> The maker of my router is Gerber scientific. They also make a router for sign making called the Sabre. These machines are a bit pricy but I consider them to be top of the line in quality and service. Do a search on Gerber Scientific and check it out. Let me know if you have any questions about these types of machines


Hi Bob, I run a Gerber Sabre 404 for a small woodworking shop. Very nice machine. The price for the parts however is unbelievable. We replaced a small ventilation fan (approx 8") in one of the control boxes over the weekend. The price was $400 (part only)...unfortunately it was 220v and we couldn't find anything comparable locally so we bit the bullet. The lead screws are also badly worn and need to be replaced...in the $4K range...ouch. Glad I don't have to pay for the parts...of course the raises will be smaller next year:laugh:


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## tbagjohn (Dec 8, 2009)

*ShopBot CNC*

I am using a ShopBot CNC to generate various templates & jigs. I also did some custom pocket-cutting for a tile manufacturer - 24"x24". Came out great.

I'd love some feedback on my ideas & designs:

Router Template | Woodworking Templates | Router Guides

:dance3:


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## BobBevins (Apr 9, 2010)

Hi all,

I am new on this forum. I am intrigued by all the cnc machines. I built one this year.

h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadI53SivOg


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello Bob. Welcome to the RouterForums. Glad to have you as part of our community.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

Nice setup 

YouTube - Bob Bevins CNC cutting deer scene

=========



BobBevins said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am new on this forum. I am intrigued by all the cnc machines. I built one this year.
> 
> h ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadI53SivOg


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## Jan Bonestroo (Mar 26, 2010)

We are just starting on a Gerber Sabre 408. Need some help. Do you also use ArtPath with your system?


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## Jan Bonestroo (Mar 26, 2010)

mike65072 said:


> Hi Bob, I run a Gerber Sabre 404 for a small woodworking shop. Very nice machine. The price for the parts however is unbelievable. We replaced a small ventilation fan (approx 8") in one of the control boxes over the weekend. The price was $400 (part only)...unfortunately it was 220v and we couldn't find anything comparable locally so we bit the bullet. The lead screws are also badly worn and need to be replaced...in the $4K range...ouch. Glad I don't have to pay for the parts...of course the raises will be smaller next year:laugh:


We are fairly new to the Gerber Sabre 408. Do you use the ArtPath software also? We are looking for some help with 3D. We have also purchased the autocarve package with this.


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## Ron.Jeanette (May 19, 2010)

We are getting a shark pro we are very amazed with what it has to offer . it is 3300.00 amd comes with the v carve pro then you can buy as a package for 500.00 the cut 2d, cut 3d and photo v carve. We were able to see it in action before purchasing and are impressed with what it can do. It is available through Rockler. I would check it out before spending 20 k.


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## Joe Wolf (Jun 6, 2010)

Hello KustomKoncepts
I to am new to this forum and run a CNC Shark Pro, with V-Carve and Aspire software. I think Aspire is a great software, and I've been learning something new with it every day for the last 8 months. I have been looking for a forum that caters to the Shark Pro. I see that there are quite a few that mention the Shark here. I first bought it to make gifts for my friends and family and now see maybe this could be an extra income when I retire. Though I will buy a larger one before I retire like 4' X 8' 
Joe


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## stevechang (Jun 15, 2010)

*Hi guy,let me help you*

Hi guy,

For 4*8ft woodworking CNC ROUTER.not need USD20K.that is too much.
.
I can supply you the best price of 4*8ft cnc router 

Structure	Cast iron
X, Y axis travelling area	1200 ×2400mm(4*8ft)
Z axis travelling area	150mm
Machine size 1360×2650mm
X-Y-Z movement	High precision ball screw drive/Gemany
Guide	Linear square/Taiwan
Max.speed	20000mm/min
Max.working speed	15000mm/min 
Working precision	0.02mm
Repositioning accuracy	0.025mm
Engraving command	G code * u00* mmg* plt 
Software environment	windows98/2000/xp
Working voltage	AC220V/50-60Hz, 2-phase 
Spindle power	3kw water-cooled motor
Spindle speed	0-24000rpm
Driver motor Stepper motor 
Software	Type 3, Artcut , Artcam software
Control system	NCstudio
Collet	ER20-12.7mm,6mm,3.175mm
No.of spindle heads optional	one or two heads or four heads
N.W.	700KG.
G.W.	800KG.
Packing size(wooden crate)	3.1*1.8*1.8m
Price(FOB QINGDAO)	USD5000
Valid	15days

If you are interesetd,pls email me.:yes4:

Regards


steve

[email protected]


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## ISHAMON49 (May 23, 2008)

yes, my avatar is aan example of cnc work. it is a 3d releif, sign blank cut on shopbot cnc and images engraved on vision engraver /cnc. used autocad and g-code
ish


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## ISHAMON49 (May 23, 2008)

I agree. Machines are machines and tooling is tooling. Combine old school with new techs and the possibilities are endless.

ish


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## Ronnieman55 (Jul 8, 2010)

I have an EZ-Router 4x8 machine running under Mach III and I use Bob Cad on the design side.
It does everything I need and was plug n' play when I got it.
check em out at EZ-router.com
A very good bang for the buck.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Arcticfox46 said:


> HUH??? -- Freddy -- Did I miss something here??
> 
> "MOST" CNC routers are used for mill drill circuit boards?? 3D is not necessary?


Didn't Fred say "_woodworking_ CNCs"? Haven't seen many wooden circuit boards out there, dude. :sarcastic:

I use AutoCAD myself to do 2D CAD then output the tool paths using CADCode for the CAM part. That used to be quite a common approach in the USA for woodworking CNCs didn't it?



Arcticfox46 said:


> BTW - I have just spend the last 30 years in industrial CNC manufacturing.
> 
> For simple drilling of hole locations - I don't need any CAD or CAM. I can do all that with a pencil and paper.


Maybe I haven't got your industrial CNC experience, but I have about 15 years in _woodworking_ automation using kit as diverse as SCM, Wadkin, Weeke, Biesse, Busselato, etc. In the mass furniture market we use what are often referred to as point-to-point CNC routers where controlling 30 or more addressable drilling heads with a pencil and paper simply doesn't hack it. Neither will manually programming anything where the client has supplied complex CAD drawings (in AutoCAD format, naturally). I tend to auto generate my code then write in any parametric stuff, repeat processing, etc as required by hand in G and M code. It's often quicker that way

The engineering market is very different to the woodworking market in the EU and 3D still isn't common in woodworking here simply because the cost of 3D machining is so high against 2D work. The new generation of 5-axis machines look interesting, but they're a heck of a step up from the 2-1/2D world many of us inhabit in both price and complexity (not to mention software costs and learning curves)


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## Metalhead781 (Jul 27, 2010)

*Hey Guys,*

Hey Guys,
New to the forum and i've introduced myself in the proper section. I have a carvewright that's currently collecting dust because it's junk. I also have a Torchmate 2x2 with their router attachment i use on a daily basis. Earlier, i was working on a display case and doing some v carvings. I used my cnc to make the dovetails for the case itself. I've had the new torchmate for about a month and half and compared to the carvewright i'm thrilled with the 2x2. Yes it has some shortcomings however the price was right. Also with some major medical issues i deal with, my torchmate is easy to work on and setup. Simple, strong and surprisingly accurate. Biggest issue i have is with the z axis, to save money, it uses a Sherline z axis that's been modified for their machine. This limits the speed of the axis to 10ipm plunge and 15ipm rapid. Not much of a bother when doing 2d milling but slows down the v carving although not enough to really cause an issue. It has a Bosch Colt palm router and does really well on the small machine. I also use bobcad with the art package. I'm a bid disapointed with the software in comparison to V carve Pro from Vectric. The reason i went with bobcam is because the gave me a "Deal". For the cost of V carve pro i got the 2d/3d cad/cam with the bob art pro and instructional dvd set. It doesn't have any tabbing features and it's a bit hard to use, not as intuitive as V carve pro. Eventually i'm going to switch when budget allows and wont be purchasing any more BobCad. It's not a bad program, it's just more for milling then woodworking. When i have the ability, i'll show off some of my projects. Most of them are simple. I do a lot of hardboard "fretwork" for wall decor, exterior pvc signs, carved millwork etc. I'm just getting into joinery with dovetails. This includes a rustic style plank bed all made with simple single dovetail joints. Basically it's a rustic camp bed made from kiln dried dimension lumber. In any case, i'm here to share ideas and techniques as well as help and get help when needed. 
I did a lot on the carvewright forum even though i was so disapointed with the machine. I'm looking for a community to share like the do there. They don't like me much anymore considering i called the machine a toy when there are so many forum user's on there that say it's the only machine i need. I think it's funny when the guys that do have a small business based on the Carvewright, they have 4 or 5 machines lined up and half the time half of them are down for repairs. In my Torchmate, if i need a bearing for the guides, i go down to ace hardware and for $5 i get a new one. I did have an issue with the Colt router, I went down to lowes and picked another one up and was working with it inside of two hrs including an hr trip back and forth to the store. 

Best Regards 
Randy


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## nigjoe (Aug 18, 2010)

Hey all,

I've been doing design for CNC programs for several years. Generally when working with names like Lorea'l, Clairns, Victoria Secret, Lis Arden, American Museum of Folk Art,...etc we get a designers rendering. Then the rendering is turned into a shop drawing for the designer and client to approve.(sections/elevations..etc) I've used Autocad for more years than I care to remember, in the last 5 yrs all I use is SolidWorks,,,full 3d solid modeling. Far superior, you can flatten out your drawing for use in 2d, and use it for 5 axis work. The Cad program used can make life much easier for programming later...corners are completly joined, no over lapping lines, auto center points for drilling, surface are already creaded for 5 axis work..etc

The programming end of CNC is what drives the machine. Virtural Gibbs, Alpha Cam, Master Cam, Compass are high end add on Programming Softwares to create the G and M codes. A post processor is dedicated to the type of machine to create the proper code for that peticular piece of equipment. For example If using MC I can have a post for my 3 axis Biesse, 5 axis Biesse, and 4 head twin table 3 axis Heian router all in 1 software package. It's as simple as a different tool library for each machine and knowing the x0y0z0 position for each machine for setup, and just picking the post for that machine. In the case of a 5 axis machine I can use a standard 0 point or set one at the machine after I locate my part.

Most CNC machine builders supply some kind of basic programming software with the machine. For example Morbidelli gives u Aspan, Weekie gives u WoodWop, Biesse give u Biesse works (was cam2 or 3). These types of software are some what limited but generally you can program any type of cabinet, doors, along with drillings, pocketing, datos, and some basic saw cuts on 5axis equipment.

Sounds like most people here are the hobbiest type CNC, or just starting out in business and need something to get them going. As a previous poster mentioned there are point to point machines, but also true routers. I have 6 point to point machines and 1 router currently. The 1 router I have is a 4 head twin table Heian has 2x8 tool tool changers. 2 heads are live and 2 are 24 drill boring heads with horzonial drillin in both x, y, and z directions. This machine was 375k USD 8 years ago, and is a total work horse, never an issue no breakdowns...its built like a tank. Easy to program or edit with simple G code, and a Fanuc controller. It has a matrix table, with twin vacumn pumps. I make a ton of solid oak and maple stair and handrail parts with it. 

The Biesse point to point machines are ok, but come with some issues and crappy service. The new 5 axis Biesse (325k USD)I have is used to make long stringers and twisted handrails for curved stair cases. It has a 32ft x6ft bed. It is a pod and rail machine with EPS. Eps is the electronic positioning system. There are 12 rails that move in x and 5 vacumn pods per rail that move in y. I set the pods 2 differnt ways: first is at the machine by loading the program into an editor that allows you to position the pods under your part then save the program, when the program is started the pods automatically move to the proper position, the locator pins pop up for the O point put your part on and go. The other way is a stair and handrail software I use called Compass. I can set the pods in this software and 1 step is elimiated. I can also use Compass to cut parts apart then move the pods to seperate the 2 parts for profiling later. An example of this would be treads for a winder box stair case. Most winder boxes have 2 or 3 treads, I make a panel that 2 treads can be cut from to save material. The panel is located on the machine, the first tool is a 10" saw blade that cuts the part in half, the pods then move to seperate the panel into 2 parts far away from each other no not to cause a collision, then a 3/4" chip breaker endmill is used to detail any outer edges, then a bullnose profile tool is used for the front edge of the step. It's alot nicer to watch it than explain it here.

Holy $.it that was a long post,,,c if I can get some pics here after a few more posts, what do I need 10 befor I can post a pic?

Cheers, it's almost friday


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## wyzarddoc (Dec 31, 2006)

Hi All;
My First reply to this forum. I have the Shark Pro with the VCarve software. I also purchased the 2D, 3D and photo upgrades. I have been working with 3D software for 10+ years so this was a natural transition combining my hobbies of woodworking and 3D art. I also purchased Mech 3 and set it up to run with the Shark. System works great plus I can generate files to hopefully sell in the future. I am currently not happy with the driver electronics on the Shark so I am re-designing them using PIC's. My new controller will fill the void currently in the lower priced machines needing enhanced control abilities. Later I want to build my own machine with 6 axis control. 
Have fun

Doc


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## jaroot (Nov 24, 2009)

*Apples vs. Oranges*

I suppose that the Torchmate is a superior machine vs. the Carvewright but by the time you add the cost of the Torchmate to the software needed you've nearly doubled the price compared to the Carvewright. Is the CW a toy? Yeah, probably But those guys with the 4 or 5 machines are making a business out of it and most paid significantly less for their additional machines as they learned how to troubleshoot and repair. I've had to repair mine a couple of times and the parts have been relatively inexpensive the delay, as you say, is the biggest problem. As for having 4 or 5 machines, they don't carve fast enough to make a living with them if you only have one. I don't think anybody dislikes you but your last few posts were rather caustic and had little to contribute to the community. I for one like all comments that are posted so long as they add value to the discussion.


Metalhead781 said:


> I did a lot on the carvewright forum even though i was so disapointed with the machine. I'm looking for a community to share like the do there. They don't like me much anymore considering i called the machine a toy when there are so many forum user's on there that say it's the only machine i need. I think it's funny when the guys that do have a small business based on the Carvewright, they have 4 or 5 machines lined up and half the time half of them are down for repairs. In my Torchmate, if i need a bearing for the guides, i go down to ace hardware and for $5 i get a new one. I did have an issue with the Colt router, I went down to lowes and picked another one up and was working with it inside of two hrs including an hr trip back and forth to the store.
> 
> Best Regards
> Randy


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## Metalhead781 (Jul 27, 2010)

jaroot said:


> I suppose that the Torchmate is a superior machine vs. the Carvewright but by the time you add the cost of the Torchmate to the software needed you've nearly doubled the price compared to the Carvewright. Is the CW a toy? Yeah, probably But those guys with the 4 or 5 machines are making a business out of it and most paid significantly less for their additional machines as they learned how to troubleshoot and repair. I've had to repair mine a couple of times and the parts have been relatively inexpensive the delay, as you say, is the biggest problem. As for having 4 or 5 machines, they don't carve fast enough to make a living with them if you only have one. I don't think anybody dislikes you but your last few posts were rather caustic and had little to contribute to the community. I for one like all comments that are posted so long as they add value to the discussion.


It's simply my opinion. As far as the software goes it's still not a comparison. My issues with the CW not withstanding, too many of the forum members would constantly tell me that the CW was all the machine i need. Reason being, they themselves make money off the machine. Selling patterns mostly. If the CW goes down hill, so does their business. The machine is what it is, a cheap, proprietary, servo controlled cnc router. I'm sorry if me having an opinion seams caustic but if my opinion on a tool offends you then don't read my posts. You see my name just skip it. Then you wont have to worry. Complaining about something you don't have to read seams like you're the one that has the issues. I'd rather say something about my issues with the machine and let someone know my history and (to me) waste of money, rather then someone else becoming as frustrated as i was with it. All i wanted out of the CW was to show the powers that be what i could do with a cnc router and get the funding to start a business with a real machine. My torchmate isn't perfect either. Same thing, it is what it is and has its own limitations. I had binding issues with my Y axis. I tore it apart had the bearing changed in a half hr and she was up and running. The bearing on the router went. I ran down to lowes and got a new one. Would i buy another torchmate? Probably not but it's my opinion that's it's a better place to start if you want to do something besides x mas gifts and your own little projects.


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## garymommsen (May 7, 2009)

You won't be sorry going for the Aspire program too. Just returned from a two day workshop put on by Vectric and the new version in amazing.


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## Ronnieman55 (Jul 8, 2010)

If you have never done 3D work before, you may want to walk before you run as 3D has a pretty steep learning curve.
I agree with you on the Vectric package, it is a very good bang for the buck.
I am using BobCad v.23 and it is apparently more cumbersome than Aspire from what I have seenof Aspire's demo software, but I've gotten used to it.
I run an EZ-Router 4x8 machine with Mach3 on the CAM side and am very happy with it.
I think their package of software/machine/electronics is well worth looking into


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## dipcodave (Apr 23, 2009)

I have 3 large bed cnc machines, and use Enroute Pro. Where are you located?


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## WmTmpkins (Oct 7, 2010)

Using Fadal's for guitar making.


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## dance0001 (Oct 20, 2011)

I personally like the shopbot CNC. as your shop grows so can the shopbot, via power sticks. check out the shopbot website.


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## baba123 (Feb 25, 2012)

interesting thread though very old. I have seriously started thinking of building a small (max 4x4) CNC router. Im not sure what it entails. The more I read the more it gets confusing. I plan to use it mainly for cabinet doors and signs ( wood, plastic and maybe metal if possible). 

Apart from having a low budget I have a few criteria. I want to build it so as to eliminate dependency on company and dealing with propriteary parts and software. My volumes will not be much about 100 -150 cabinet doors a month. Would a typical DIY router be able to handle that work load?
What would be the wear and tear on various parts? How often would they need to be replaced?
There wont be much variation in the designs for most of my work load so which software combination will appropriate. ? I plan to use Bosch routers (easily replaced).

I was looking at some of the kits from routerparts website and would a Rack And Pinon drive be appropriate given dimensions an possibility of expansion? 

I have a few years of hobby level woodworking experience and though not an expert in computer hardware or software I am familiar with both. 

I know that the information that I have given is not specific. I dont know much about CNC routing and have been researching only since last week. I do not have much time either . I hope to get the machine assembled in 2-3 months time. I can devote 2-4 days every week in assembling it.

I suppose I will eventually learn enough given enough time but right now I am short on time. Need to decide on a build and finish it 2-3 months time. As I discovered in wood working over the last 5 years learning on my own is possible but it entails spending lots of time experimenting and recovering from mis-steps. I hope I can reduce that given my time available is limited and the high cost of making the wrong decisions in deciding the type of build.

I live in Austin Texas it would be great if I could get help from someone here or in Houston & Dallas. Nothing like seeing a machine in action.


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## Bradleytavares (Feb 25, 2012)

kustomkoncepts said:


> I did a search for CNC or this site and even though I am posting this in the CNC SECTION of your fourm I seem to be talking Greek to you all. a CNC is a Computer Numeric Controled Machine. You design your work in a 3D program and apply Tool Paths to it and the computer cuts it out with a High speed Spindle not a router attachement.
> 
> Sorry a hand router mounted on some Ready Rod with a woden frame though cool that you can build that and make it work, it is not what I am looking for.
> I am looking for other people who own and opperate at least a 4'x8' Minimum sized computer controled machine.
> ...


I've owned a Carvewright machine for four years and understand the difference in router cutting and spindle. Spindle is the pro. way to cut. All true machines use this system. The CW's graphics in designer software is reasonably priced and many have been sold world wide. I make a living with it. In my opinion, it's the best regarding "bang for buck" although the format is smaller than your needs. CW and designer allows for "stacking" pieces to create a wider product than the width of the cutting table.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

baba123 said:


> interesting thread though very old. I have seriously started thinking of building a small (max 4x4) CNC router. Im not sure what it entails. The more I read the more it gets confusing. I plan to use it mainly for cabinet doors and signs ( wood, plastic and maybe metal if possible).
> 
> Apart from having a low budget I have a few criteria. I want to build it so as to eliminate dependency on company and dealing with propriteary parts and software. My volumes will not be much about 100 -150 cabinet doors a month. Would a typical DIY router be able to handle that work load?
> What would be the wear and tear on various parts? How often would they need to be replaced?
> ...


Start a new thread in the CNC part of the forum asking what people would recommend for the work you want to do. There are some very knowledgeable people here that have different type of machines they have constructed themselves so they should be able to point you in the right direction. 
When you start your build you can start a thread for the build and they will follow your progress and let you know if it looks like you are headed for trouble or if you are on the right track.
I'm in the Dallas area but I just run a Shark Pro for small production work. It does use the Bosch Colt for moter and it seems to work fine for the work I do.

Hope this will help,
Mike


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## baba123 (Feb 25, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Start a new thread in the CNC part of the forum asking what people would recommend for the work you want to do. There are some very knowledgeable people here that have different type of machines they have constructed themselves so they should be able to point you in the right direction.
> When you start your build you can start a thread for the build and they will follow your progress and let you know if it looks like you are headed for trouble or if you are on the right track.
> I'm in the Dallas area but I just run a Shark Pro for small production work. It does use the Bosch Colt for moter and it seems to work fine for the work I do.
> 
> ...


Thanks mike I will do that.


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## The Russell (Feb 12, 2012)

We have a CNC with a machine area of 3000x1500 9hp spindle never looked back its a Holzher Pro master


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## woodman12 (Feb 12, 2012)

I have a 4 axis machine with a porter cable 7518 router and a rockwell lathe indexer all run by 2 computers running xp and mach3 post processor.
I use aspire 3.5 and i draw my diagrams using software from Digitizing Solutions for Tracing
john walsh on a calcomp drawingboard III


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I have a Techno-Isel 20 x 40 inch machine. I have had it for over 25 years. Still going strong. Excellent support and parts availability. Use Mastercam, Casmate, Enroute. Recently updated system from Dos based to Windows based. Upgrade cost about $750. Recently burned out a Z axis servo motor, cost $500 plus $120 for new z-axis ball nut. Have recently upgraded my Mastercam to X6, which, when I learn it's capabilities, will probably replace Casmate and Enroute.

Techno-Isel has ball screws on all axes, which with servo motors never loses its place in a program. Amazing that nobody on this forum has any experience with them, since the were the first cnc system available to hobby users.

Techno-Isel systems can also machine aluminum, which Shop-Bot can also do.


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## Geppetto Creations (Apr 19, 2012)

I just ordered a Laguna IQ CNC


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## Maryland CNC (Jul 27, 2014)

Shopbot


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Maryland CNC said:


> Maryland CNC - Maryland CNC - CNC routing service, CNC cut parts - Laurel, MD
> 
> Thanks





Is there a typo or two here? 



> We can create one prototype parts or your on going CNC production runs with every part being exactly the same every time, giving you the highest quality and saving assembly time.


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## Leavenworthj (Jul 16, 2014)

I use Vectric Aspire and it's great for CNC work (signs, etc). It can do 3D as well as simple VCarve and the price is $1995. If you are in the market for a CNC I am selling my Techno 4896 including Vectric Aspire package and I am asking $12k total. The machine is a Techno LC4896 and it is full 48"x96" machine. You can look at my forum post "Techno LC 4896 CNC Router" if interested.


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