# Choosing a Cope & Stick Set



## Padawan Learner (Oct 12, 2009)

Can someone tell me how I should go about choosing a cope and stick bit set? I'm making my DIL a blanket chest. 

How do you choose the size? 

What do I look for in quality? 

Are some profiles better than others? 

There is quite a dazzling array of brands and types. If I have never routed a cope and stick before, what is a good way to start out?


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Padawan
You are going to get as many opions on this question as there are brands of bits.
As for size I'm assuming you mean collet, I would say 1/2" because these are big bits and too much for the small routers to handle. 
As for quality when it comes to these sets I beleive you get what you pay for. Some of these sets may seem expensive if you don't plan on using them a lot, but in that case they could last a lifetime.
I personally use freud, they are three piece matched sets and very easy to set up. 
Profiles? I don't find any one better than the other its just a matter of taste.
Like any bits there is a learning curve use some scraps and make some setup blocks.
Pay attention to the speeds, the math and your fingers.
Have fun
Wayne


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I use a Freud 3pc set and it's excellent. I have to lower the speed on my Hitachi when I use the big horizontal bit, and never do it all in one pass. It really takes some practising setting it up and getting it just right. You need the same wood you will use for your project and the same thickness is critical. You need scrap behind the profile so that you don't have tear out. Lots of practice is the key to understanding it!

~Julie~


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## Old_Chipper (Mar 30, 2009)

Welcome Vaughn,
They gave you very good advice. You didn’t say if you have a router table. Please don’t try this without one! Don’t need to be fancy, but those large cutters aren’t intended to be use in a hand held router. You might check you-tube, there are a couple short videos showing the setup. Sorry I don’t have the link been a while since I was there.
The main thing is as Julie said, practice on some scrap, pine is fine for that; as long as it is the same size as your nice stock.


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## Padawan Learner (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks to all for the advice. Freud 3 pc. 1/2 inch collet it is, then, with a good deal of practice on same-sized scrap.


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## Padawan Learner (Oct 12, 2009)

*Backcutter on raised panel bit?*

OK, next question. 

Freud makes umpteen three-piece rail and stile bit sets. 

I think I can sort through them to find one that suits me, but what about backcutters? 

Do you folks think that's necessary, esp for one who has never cut a raised panel before?


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

I can comment on that. I have made many panels. When I am done making my panel I set up my table saw to give me a quarter inch grove in the back side of the panel. Remember my main philosophy is to keep the price down. Now if speed of operation is a higher priority to you a back cutter is the way to go. I hope this helps.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Vaughn

It's not a must have item but it sure make the job essayer ,all done with one router bit and on one machine  they always make the job a clean job..no saw marks to sand out ..

The last pass at 1/16" or less will give you a pro. look ..


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Padawan Learner said:


> OK, next question.
> 
> Freud makes umpteen three-piece rail and stile bit sets.
> 
> ...


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Padawan Learner said:


> Can someone tell me how I should go about choosing a cope and stick bit set? I'm making my DIL a blanket chest.
> 
> How do you choose the size?
> 
> ...


Vaughn,

One early consideration is the power of your router for the raised panel cutter. If you've got plenty of power in your router then you can use a "horizontal" bit, where the wood lies flat on your router table and the bit is about 3" in diameter (cutting bout 1-1/4" deep) but is short. With that style, you can get one with an integral "back cutter" that automatically ensures the thickness on the edges of the panel (where it goes into the grooves of the rail and stile). 

If your router is low on horsepower you can still accomplish the same thing with a "vertical" bit. It is smaller in diameter (about 1") but is tall. The panels are then run through the router table with the panels on edge, against the fence. A second bit and cut on the other side of the panel controls the edge thickness.

I know a 15A ("3 hp") router swings the big bits with ease (although you still use the fenceto make a series of shallow cuts) and a small 1/4" collet router needs the vertical but, since I haven't tried a vertical bit (or a horizontal in a mid-powered router) I cannot speak to what the threshold is.

To get others to reply I'll *guess* that something around 2hp (like a Bosch 1617VSPK) would handle the horizontal cutters (with shallow cuts) but I'm not sure. 

How about it, fellow forum members? What is your experience?


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I can go out to my shop and look for the number of my set. It is the horizontal type and it's NOT the type with backcutters. I use an older Hitachi M12V and turn down the speed for the panel bit, but not the cope and stile bits. I am wondering with the backcutter, how that works when you are taking more than one pass.? I take it really easy and do maybe 5 passes, moving the bit up each time. 

~Julie~


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

The set I have is:

*freud* 3 piece Router Bit Set for Cabinet Doors Item 97-226,
it includes the rail and stile bits which are a pair called item 99-261,
plus the raised panel bit which is item 99-513

Maybe Charles will chime in, he is a freud representative and a member here.

~Julie~


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

I have 15 or so of the horizontal bits and about 10 or so of the vertical bits and they both do a great job..

To me it's power thing,,the big horiz.bits are made to make the pass in one cut and the same for the vert. are made the same...

One of the sets (CMT horiz.) come with 2 bearings, one big one and a small one so you can do the job safe,if's it a strait pass the one small bearing can take on the job easy but if you are doing arch type it's best to use the two bearings,,with a 1/2 fence and not a started pin..

The Vert.bits do the job just a little bit safer and with less power, 1hp to 2 1/4hp will do the job just fine..

They don't come with a back cutter but you can do the on the table saw or they do sale a back cutter bit..for that job on the router table...

The horiz.bits with the back cutters are the best to use, if you have the power and a router speed device on your machine or a device so you can slow the big bits down..8,000 rpm's the norm..

Just one router user opinion 

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BigJimAK said:


> Vaughn,
> 
> One early consideration is the power of your router for the raised panel cutter. If you've got plenty of power in your router then you can use a "horizontal" bit, where the wood lies flat on your router table and the bit is about 3" in diameter (cutting bout 1-1/4" deep) but is short. With that style, you can get one with an integral "back cutter" that automatically ensures the thickness on the edges of the panel (where it goes into the grooves of the rail and stile).
> 
> ...


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Padawan Learner said:


> OK, next question.
> 
> Freud makes umpteen three-piece rail and stile bit sets.
> 
> ...



Freud (and most others) makes 3 types of raised panel cutters:

3/4" Panel Raisers - using 3/4" material these make a ~1/2" tall profile leaving a 1/4" tongue and the panel will be proud of the frame by about 1/8" (or whatever you leave behind the groove on the stiles). Vertical bits are also 3/4" panel raisers

5/8" Panel Raisers - make a profile that is ~3/8" tall so with 5/8" stock they will make a panel that is flush with the frame in the front and recessed in the back or they can be used in 3/4" stock with a separate back cut to make a 1/4" tongue and the panel will be flush both front and back

3/4" Panel Raisers with Back Cutters - In 3/4" stock these make panels with 1/4" tongue and flush with the frame both front and back

The RP w/BC bits produce a consistent tongue thickness and require less set up but otherwise they perform the same. Beginner or pro should really make no difference in which is best for you. There is a video CD included with these sets that can help you though making your doors.


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## Padawan Learner (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks all for your thoughtful and helpful replies. This is an awesome forum.

I own a 2.25 HP Porter Cable 892, mounted in a router table. If this were your first experience cutting a panel, would you go with a horizontal or vertical bit in that size router?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Vaughn

I would suggest using the vert.router bits.

MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 2

============


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Padawan Learner said:


> Thanks all for your thoughtful and helpful replies. This is an awesome forum.
> 
> I own a 2.25 HP Porter Cable 892, mounted in a router table. If this were your first experience cutting a panel, would you go with a horizontal or vertical bit in that size router?


I can't speak for the PC router, but the Freud FT1700 (2-1/4HP) will swing the 3-1/2" diameter raised panel bits just fine. Check the manual for the router and see what max bit diameter they recommend.


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## Timberline (Oct 17, 2009)

waynoe said:


> Padawan
> You are going to get as many opions on this question as there are brands of bits.
> As for size I'm assuming you mean collet, I would say 1/2" because these are big bits and too much for the small routers to handle.
> As for quality when it comes to these sets I beleive you get what you pay for. Some of these sets may seem expensive if you don't plan on using them a lot, but in that case they could last a lifetime.
> ...


Hi
What would be a small router? I've got a PC 690 that's a 1 3/4 hp and I was going to buy some bit's with 1/2" shank's, since I've heard they cut much smoother. Is that going to be to big of a bit for that size router?


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Timberline said:


> Hi
> What would be a small router? I've got a PC 690 that's a 1 3/4 hp and I was going to buy some bit's with 1/2" shank's, since I've heard they cut much smoother. Is that going to be to big of a bit for that size router?


Christopher, bit diameter is not a reference to the shank size, but the actual cutter diameter. For instance, horizontal raised panel cutters would not be recommended for your router, no matter what shank size, due to the large mass (3-4") of the cutter. 1/2" shank bits are better because they are generally stronger then those with 1/4" shank.. great for dadoes and grooves where a lot of sideways stress is put on the bit.


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