# question about pocket holes



## wathman (Jul 16, 2009)

I'm going to start working on my first router table build to go along with the purchase of my new router, and it seems pocket holes are the way to go for fastening the table together. The few woodworking projects I've done in the past I've fastened with lag screws and washers, but this probably isn't as fast or convenient as pocket holes are. 

I'm going to pick up a Kreg pocket hole jig today, and I had a question about the screws. I see that Kreg makes special pocket hole screws that cost more than the generic woodworking screws at the store. Will I have any issues with using normal phillips head screws with the jig kit? What precisely should I be looking for in screws? (my router table will be mostly constructed out of 3/4" stock poplar).


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I always use the square drive screws. I think they are Canadian.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi wathman,

Look up McFeelys. They should have the same screws only a bit cheaper I think. The screws themselves are a panhead screw. They are all square drive for the pocket hole jig. 

Hope this helps.


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## wathman (Jul 16, 2009)

Alright, I'll see what I can find. I think I have a square head bit for my drill, just wanted to know if I'd be stuck buying proprietary screws all the time.


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## JWCat78006 (Jul 13, 2009)

*Pocket screws*



wathman said:


> I'm going to start working on my first router table build to go along with the purchase of my new router, and it seems pocket holes are the way to go for fastening the table together. The few woodworking projects I've done in the past I've fastened with lag screws and washers, but this probably isn't as fast or convenient as pocket holes are.
> 
> I'm going to pick up a Kreg pocket hole jig today, and I had a question about the screws. I see that Kreg makes special pocket hole screws that cost more than the generic woodworking screws at the store. Will I have any issues with using normal phillips head screws with the jig kit? What precisely should I be looking for in screws? (my router table will be mostly constructed out of 3/4" stock poplar).


Just built a wall unit using the Kregg pocket hole jig and I'm really pleased with the results. I noticed that my local Home Depot store has a brand of pocket screws available. Price was a little bit less than at Woodcraft but the selection of sizes and types wasn't great.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI wathman

Once you start using the sq.drive screws you will stop buying the Phil.drive screws,,you can get the driver(s) from the DeWalt service center , form 1 1/4" to 12" long ones..at the right price most are the snap in type but you can buy the standard screw hand type driver as well 

Unlike the phil.type the sq.drive will not cam out  it's neat to put a screw on the end of the 12" driver and it will not fall off,,unlike the phil.screws with or without the magnet tip driver..

You can buy the sq.drive screws off eBay for a song in the bulk,,then you should have a life time of screws...or you can buy them from the big box stores but they are very high in price,,,if you have a bolt and nut supply store in your town it's good place to get them for the right price,,  but always buy them by the box 100/1000 per.box or bulk .ask them if they have the wing head type it will cut a counter sink hole at the same time the screw is put in place ,they should have the pan head (in both types, F & C ) as a stock item..


As you can see I'm sold of the sq.drive screws and I think you will be too once you have some on hand..



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wathman said:


> I'm going to start working on my first router table build to go along with the purchase of my new router, and it seems pocket holes are the way to go for fastening the table together. The few woodworking projects I've done in the past I've fastened with lag screws and washers, but this probably isn't as fast or convenient as pocket holes are.
> 
> I'm going to pick up a Kreg pocket hole jig today, and I had a question about the screws. I see that Kreg makes special pocket hole screws that cost more than the generic woodworking screws at the store. Will I have any issues with using normal phillips head screws with the jig kit? What precisely should I be looking for in screws? (my router table will be mostly constructed out of 3/4" stock poplar).


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I think the only other type is the Torx and the Phillips-square that would even come close to equaling what the square type can and will do. As Bj suggested, buy in bulk. This will cut the cost way down. 

There should be 1 or 2 Lowes and a couple of HD's up in KCK. There is a Woodcraft store in Olathe. These should also have the pocket screws you're after.


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

iF YOU GET THE RIGHT JIG, IT USUALLY COMES WITH SOME SAMPLE SCREWS (SOFT WOOD AND HAED WOOD TYPES) AS WELL AS A GOOD LENGTH DRIVER FOR YOU DRILL.

tHOSE CANUCKS ARE A CLEVER BUNCH! THE SYSTEM IS GREAT!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

They are called Robertson screws. They actually have an interesting history. Yes they are Canadian and the fact that Henry Ford shunned them is why they are not popular in the US even though they are a superior drive innovation. You can read about it here.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

The screws aren't proprietary but you do have to buy the type of screws made for pocket holes. You need to pay attention to the fact that there is one type pocket hole screw for soft wood and another for hard. You also have to buy the correct length screw as determined by the thickness of material you are using. The reason a regular (deck or sheetrock) screw wont work is the head is wrong and the screw needs the correct length shank.

I agree with the Robertson screws from Mcfeeley's. They are great.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> They are called Robertson screws. They actually have an interesting history. Yes they are Canadian and the fact that Henry Ford shunned them is why they are not popular in the US even though they are a superior drive innovation. You can read about it here.


That was *not* one of Henry's "better ideas".


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi George

I use dry wall screws all the time  but I do use longer screws than what they recommend ..the norm..once the glue drys out the screws job is done the norm.. 


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curiousgeorge said:


> The screws aren't proprietary but you do have to buy the type of screws made for pocket holes. You need to pay attention to the fact that there is one type pocket hole screw for soft wood and another for hard. You also have to buy the correct length screw as determined by the thickness of material you are using. The reason a regular (deck or sheetrock) screw wont work is the head is wrong and the screw needs the correct length shank.
> 
> I agree with the Robertson screws from Mcfeeley's. They are great.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

With the Kreg system the screw is the primary holding power. Pocket hole screws are the way to go, and they are much stronger than drywall screws. The flat washerless design of the pocket hole screw acts like a clamp when pulling the wood together. Sears offers Robertson screwdrivers in the Craftsman line, but as a rule only Canadian stores or those close to the border stock them.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Mike, I bought my Robertson (square drive) at McFeeley's and I even found some for the drill motor at Harbor Freight.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I too have used them and like them very much as for the drivers, I have seen them at HD locally. I have had to replace the bit, broke off the little tip. I think as I start doing more and more in the shop instead of to the shop I will be getting into the pocket fasteners more.


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## wathman (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks to all who responded, I picked up the $40 kreg starter kit so I'll have some starter screws to play with. The explanations on why the self tapping square screws are better do make sense, I'll definitely buy in bulk once I figure out what sizes I use most often. Right now my project uses 3/4" stock, would it be recommended to use 1/2" inch screws, or 3/4"? 

Also, I didn't pick up the special kreg clamp that was for sale, seems like my vice grip type clamp, or plain old c-clamps will work just fine for me now, though I haven't tried it yet. Any advantage to getting a clamp like the kregg one?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi wathman

I would suggest you pickup one of the pocket hole screw kits,it comes with many screws and plugs...it's about a 10" x 12" plastic box with pockets to keep the screws in..

Kreg got me about 4 or 5 years ago may be longer, the clamps are needed and you will use them all the time,you can beat the price of them with the HF clamps,2ea. for 10.oo and they work very well,you can stick on some fender washers and you have the same thing,the one that's hard to get aoround is the clamp that goes into the pocket hole so it a buy only from Kreg,it holds the parts at a right angle for cabinet work,etc. the one I like best is the inlay plate 10" x 10", that you put into your work bench top or drop into your router table 

I have the older Kreg and I did reworked it a bit to take on the vac.pickup tube..

As you can see I'm into the Kreg system and I'm sure you will be too once you start using it more and more..

Kreg Tool Company

Bench Klamp™ System - #KKS-KBKSYS
Bench Klamps™
Right Angle Clamp - KHC-RAC
Pocket Hole Tools


Kreg Accessories

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wathman said:


> Thanks to all who responded, I picked up the $40 kreg starter kit so I'll have some starter screws to play with. The explanations on why the self tapping square screws are better do make sense, I'll definitely buy in bulk once I figure out what sizes I use most often. Right now my project uses 3/4" stock, would it be recommended to use 1/2" inch screws, or 3/4"?
> 
> Also, I didn't pick up the special kreg clamp that was for sale, seems like my vice grip type clamp, or plain old c-clamps will work just fine for me now, though I haven't tried it yet. Any advantage to getting a clamp like the kregg one?


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## wathman (Jul 16, 2009)

I can definitely see myself using this for fastening a lot in the future. One of the reasons I didn't get into woodworking sooner was that I thought it would be a pain to learn how to make good, solid joints. I'll pick up the kreg clamp soon, my fiancee will probably kill me if I spend even more on tools and haven't built anything for the house she's wanted yet 

As for the inserts, Right now I'm just building my router table, so it doesn't need to be all that pretty. When I build some pieces for the house I will make sure I have enough inserts to cover the holes. My first project was an aquarium stand that I built out of pine and lag screws, I put some stain on it, and made it look presentable, but I'll never hear the end of it about the visible lag screw heads.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I can't remember the last time I saw integral washers on wood screws outside of the Kreg and cabinet screws, sheet metal all the time. The cabinet screws had hex head and the washers are a larger dia. than the Kreg drill bit.

If I had the opportunity to see a screw replacement in person I'd bring a Kreg screw for conformation


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi wathman

I would also suggest you pickup the DVD'S from Kreg,,some great ways how to make cabinets plus more 

Router Accessories


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wathman said:


> I can definitely see myself using this for fastening a lot in the future. One of the reasons I didn't get into woodworking sooner was that I thought it would be a pain to learn how to make good, solid joints. I'll pick up the kreg clamp soon, my fiancee will probably kill me if I spend even more on tools and haven't built anything for the house she's wanted yet
> 
> As for the inserts, Right now I'm just building my router table, so it doesn't need to be all that pretty. When I build some pieces for the house I will make sure I have enough inserts to cover the holes. My first project was an aquarium stand that I built out of pine and lag screws, I put some stain on it, and made it look presentable, but I'll never hear the end of it about the visible lag screw heads.


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## wathman (Jul 16, 2009)

Bob,

I'll look into getting the DVDs also. I built my router table frame using pocket holes, and I'm really pleased with how it turned out. I also discovered why you built such fancy setups for making joints, must make keeping the pieces in alignment while driving the screws much easier. In order to put in some of my pocket screws, I ended up using nearly every clamp and vise grip I own a couple times.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I Have the Kreg cabinet making DVD, wow they sure make it look easy


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Get an extra drill bit for the pocket hole jig. Always nice to have an extra just in case "Murphy's Law" kicks in. I also suggest look into getting the clamps. They're specifically designed for use with the jig. I can't say enough good things about my Kreg PJ. I purchase all of my screws from McFeelys as well. They have or can get exactly what you're needing and after. Shipping doesn't take that long either. Usually within the same week as ordered, 'pending on the day of course.


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## JT1972CORVETTE (Jul 29, 2009)

Kreg also makes a harden tip square head drive . It last 5X longer(guess) than the cheaper bits. Nothings worse than a stripped bit at 1 am .


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