# Not only a glue line - on router table



## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Good day

With this method, I get not only nice glue line but also consistent width (and I mean ±0") along the board that is very important for me for 45° frame and various cabinet parts.

The post is divided into 2 parts, the first the old (prototype) setup and the second, the final version.

With the new version (with the wooden fence), I have to touch and set the router bit only once at the initial set-up and after, just to release the straight edge clamps, release 2 knobs, push the new board with the Straight edge to the fence, lock the clamps, turn the knobs and go (it takes only a few seconds), so the wooden fence, is not only acting as a guard but also as a locator to set the next board.

as you will notice, I'm "shaving" only 0.1 mm (0.004") at every pass and the distance between the board and the "Fence" is 0.3 mm (0.012") which means that in case that "something goes wrong", the board can move laterally only 0.012".

For the push-back phenomena, I have two safety devices, first, I'm using strong grip push-blocks and second I always stand behind the Straight edge or behind the "Fence" so in any case I'm not there to "receive" it (and it does not look to me that "push-back" can occur with "freedom" of 0.012" of the board).

Regards
niki


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

That was the old set-up and it was just as a reference.
From here, I added a "Fence" that serves not only as a guard [as you can see, the bit is burried in the fence and only 0.012" are protruding through the fence (looking from above)]
but alsoas a "locator" to set the next board without the need to touch and rotate the bit again but only once, at the first set-up.


Till this pic the set-up is the same as above










And now...


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Thanks for the pics Niki. Glad to see you back with us. No matter which forum you are on, I still like your ingenuity. You are one resourceful dude.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Now that's what I call a photo-shoot, hopefully it will catch on and we will see them as a regular thing.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Niki

I like your photo-shoot but may I ask a question why not just use a jointer or a hand jointer plane to do this type of job,quick and easy . ? 

Just asking ... 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_h...-keywords=Jointer+Plane&Go.x=11&Go.y=11&Go=Go


Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Niki,

I see you're up to your tricks... getting out of buying a jointer... or getting along without one because you don't have the room for it... I gotta say, you really know how to think things out, and think 'out of the box' to solve problems without having the obvious!

Very good job!!

I had to read it more than once & really study it to see how it worked...

I guess you like the iron feather boards over the wood ones? Sure look stronger, all right!  

Thanks for a great show!!

... also, thank you for your 'standing permission' for me to add your stuff to me website. (That's a huge chunk!)  

Later... good to see you going again!!


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Thank you for your kind replies

Dr.Zook
"Ingenuity"? I would call it "Necessity", I don't have a jointer (that costs here around $1500) nor the space to accommodate it.

Harry
Photography, is my weak side, I take at list 3 pics of every "episode" and than selecting the best....

Hi BJ
1. As I said no space for jointer (nor money, I mean, for me it's waste of money).
2. My hand skills are close to zero
3. I don't know of any jointer that will give you consistent width through all the board length.

Hey, this hand jointer costs almost like M12V...guess what I would prefer...

Joe
I'll post soon something specially for you, watch for the post "Hey Joe"

Regards 
niki


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Niki,

I just thought of something that you probably do...
If you don't do it, what do you think of my suggestion?

Between passes, moving workpiece up to the shims, clamping, removing board, *and then placing the iron feathers back into a precise position, ready to make the cut / pass.

Suggestion:*
Make a featherboard adjusting jig... Using a straight piece of hardwood, make a partial cut across the fence, leaving space to span from one iron featherboard to the other. The cut part is the exact depth required for the iron featherboard position. Now, to place the featherboards back into position, use this piece as a guide by just touching it with the featherboards & tighten them down... both at the same time.

It wants to be thinner than the thinnest piece you want to Joint... 

Would it work? Would it speed up the Pass setup?

Additionally, the other end / side could be cut for bit-to-fence spacing setup... Yes?

Thank you very much!


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Joe

I don't think that an "adjusting jig" will speed-up the positioning of the feather boards.

The feather board position is not so important, I set it by eye to something like 1/4" but a little bit more or less will not have any effect (except the effect on the pushing force required).

But of course your suggestion is good, actually, you can take a piece of 1/8" plywood, longer than the cutoff on the Fence and wide as the fence height and glue (Super glue) on each side a vertical strip of 1/4" plywood, just attach it to the fence and you get a "locator".

I could not understand the second question. There are two "players" here, one is the Fence and the meaning is the wooden fence and after I set it ones (the initial set-up as on the pic with the text "set the bit cutter at 90° to the board), I don't touch it anymore.
From now on, I just move the Straight edge (the aluminum bar) to joint the other side of the board or for different board width.

My method is to joint all the boards while the concave side is attached to the fence and then, all the boards from the other side.
If, like in the case of picture frame all the boards are at the same width (±), I have to set the Straight edge only twice, ones for one side of all the boards and second time for the other side of all the boards.

Regards
niki


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

creative !
Where can I get one of those Straight edges?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Niki, I hate to disagree with a fellow forum member but, photography is definitely NOT you're weak point and neither is ingenuity. Keep the photo-shoots coming.


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Thank you

You can get them from one of those "Brand name" companies that promise you "within 0.005" straight" and costs like it's made of gold or...

Try the Aluminum supply, that's where I bought my first 67" aluminum bar (on the pics) but because it's bar and Aluminum is sold not only by shape but also according to the weight it was expensive, But...

Just a few weeks ago, I "discovered" that the "Wall-to-wall carpet" guys are using a long rectangular shape, 4" wide aluminum straight edge.
They have it in various lengths, I bought the 100" (they have also 120") and it cost me here in Poland around $21.
They are very straight and I use it also as a CS and hand held router guide (you will see it in one of my next posts).

niki


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I just did some Googling... for "Aluminum supply"...
... my first good Hit...

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2688-7391-38-x-1-12-7075-t6-aluminum-cold-finish.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/c-7391-7075.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/c-7388-flat.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/default.aspx?gclid=CLKgyde194sCFRYbYQodiXkyYg

*Now, I wonder how straight the stuff is??   *


Steel?
http://www.speedymetals.com/c-7195-flat.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-388-7197-14-x-1-12-cold-finished-1018.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-4045-7199-14-x-1-12-a-36-1020-hot-rolled-steel.aspx

Stainless?
http://www.speedymetals.com/p-978-14-x-1-12-303-stainless-steel-hot-rolled-annealed-pickled.aspx

http://www.speedymetals.com/p-1234-14-x-1-12-4140-cold-finished-annealed.aspx

*I wish I knew what the best Grade was that would 'do the job'... *


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

I've used this place for years. They have a pretty good selection.
http://www.tacometals.com


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

cabinetman said:


> I've used this place for years. They have a pretty good selection.
> http://www.tacometals.com


Hi Mike,

What would you use, of theirs, for a good straight edge?

Moulding? 

Thank you...


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

It depends on what I need a straightedge for. I have flat bar stock that works well. The problem with those is having enough width to remain straight.

I use a plywood straightedge, edged in 1/16" mica or 1/8" aluminum. The width varies from 4" to 8". I use a good hardwood ply in 3/4" and get both long edges straight before laminating a final edge. They work great for clamping to the subject piece, and if handled and stored correctly stay straight for years.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I would be talking about using it the same way Niki does in this thread...

Edged plywood?

I didn't expect that...


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

A clamped straight edge is a clamped straight edge, if it's straight, it doesn't matter if it's wood or metal. I don't really like trapping stock between a fence and a bit. I've set up a 1/32" jointer type routing procedure primarily for straight edging formica edges. The bit (straight cutter) is encapsulated within a cove in the fence, with 1/32" protrusion from the face of the fence. After the cut a 1/32" piece of formica is added to the fence as the "take up". The bit has a 1" or more cuting face, and it will do hardwoods as well. This takes no setup, straightedge, or clamps. When I make a pass, it will take only 1/32" at a time and also do the jointing.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

cabinetman said:


> A clamped straight edge is a clamped straight edge, if it's straight, it doesn't matter if it's wood or metal. I don't really like trapping stock between a fence and a bit. I've set up a 1/32" jointer type routing procedure primarily for straight edging formica edges. The bit (straight cutter) is encapsulated within a cove in the fence, with 1/32" protrusion from the face of the fence. After the cut a 1/32" piece of formica is added to the fence as the "take up". The bit has a 1" or more cuting face, and it will do hardwoods as well. This takes no setup, straightedge, or clamps. When I make a pass, it will take only 1/32" at a time and also do the jointing.


Yes, the traditional way of doing it. 

To get uniform width, do you then rip on TS followed by another 1/32" router/jointer pass?


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

Thanks for the links Joe,
Now got to figure out how to make one side of those Alu bars perfect flat to within .0001" , I'D like to go with the SS bars because there's no flexing but Alu is easier to work with and maybe get a special router bit to shave some off or something.


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Yes, the traditional way of doing it.
> 
> To get uniform width, do you then rip on TS followed by another 1/32" router/jointer pass?


Since I know that the pass will remove only 1/32" at a time, I can allow the cut on the TS to account for multiple router passes. But, if jointing is required for straightening, either a jointer pass (on the jointer) or I allow a few with the router. It's very accurate (even for government work).


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

Router is still my name said:


> Thanks for the links Joe,
> Now got to figure out how to make one side of those Alu bars perfect flat to within .0001" , I'D like to go with the SS bars because there's no flexing but Alu is easier to work with and maybe get a special router bit to shave some off or something.


Personally, I would try and find one that I didn't have to mess with.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Router is still my name said:


> Thanks for the links Joe,
> Now got to figure out how to make one side of those Alu bars perfect flat to within .0001" , I'D like to go with the SS bars because there's no flexing but Alu is easier to work with and maybe get a special router bit to shave some off or something.


I have a cousin that is an expert in the field that is working on it... (part of it)... like what do we look at?  I don't think I'd need .0001" tolerance... heck wood expands, etc. more than that... 
I wonder what an acceptable tolerance would be?

When I find out, I will let you know...

We both have the same problem...


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I understand about trapping the wood between the fence and the bit, but if using the other method as Cabinetman suggests, won't a non-straight piece of wood come out non-straight?
It seems to me that any curved edge going in, will be a curved edge coming out..


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

This looks interesting...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS-S...004QQitemZ140111036892QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:us

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIB-STARRETT-24...ryZ58245QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-385-...94-1715951?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1178414763&sr=1-1


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

The way I see it, If I shoot for .0001" tolerance then if I'm lucky I will get .01 or worse  
Any way the probleem with all the 48" + commercial ALU straight edges that I have is that they all will flex in the middle just enough to create a concave. 
SS is the wway to go buy nobody makes a 48"' + and if they did, it would cost at least 300 or more  in which case might as well get a jointer.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Router is still my name said:


> SS is the way to go buy nobody makes a 48"' + and if they did, it would cost at least 300 or more  in which case might as well get a jointer.


This place has them... 
http://www.speedymetals.com/p-2546-14-x-1-12-316-stainless-steel-annealed-pickled.aspx

:sold:


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## cabinetman (Apr 23, 2007)

AxlMyk said:


> I understand about trapping the wood between the fence and the bit, but if using the other method as Cabinetman suggests, won't a non-straight piece of wood come out non-straight?
> It seems to me that any curved edge going in, will be a curved edge coming out..



It's a jointer principle. You have to make sufficient passes to get a straight edge. There's no difference in a jointer with a rotating cutterhead and adjustable tables and a router bit set up with the same capabilities.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Can someone please explain to me why, in a woodworking forum, there is talk of 0.0001" tolerance? Quite honestly, if I achieve 0.001" on my metal lathe I feel like wagging my tail, after all, aren't most of us on this forum amateurs?


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

Who you callin amateur?  
I'm a pro with no shop or tools. just few routers :sold:


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Can someone please explain to me why, in a woodworking forum, there is talk of 0.0001" tolerance? Quite honestly, if I achieve 0.001" on my metal lathe I feel like wagging my tail, after all, aren't most of us on this forum amateurs?


Harry,

I can't explain it...

I did some quick calculations... (all assumptions picked out of the air)
1/128" = .0078125"

Can anyone really see 1/128"?

I tried seeing it on a ruler... I can see the 1/64... but the 1/128 is thinner than the ruler ruled line!

I think that gluing & clamping the wood could easily make up that amount of space! Yes?! ... a little sanding could do that!!

Let's see 1/128" off in 12" ... that amounts to 1/32" over a 4' span... 
I really think I could live with that...
(that is assuming it could be off that much in 12"... probably longer)


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

*Alternate Way of Jointing Boards for Table Top*

Earlier today, while watching TheWoodworkingChannel - Router Workshop, Bob demonstrated various ways of splicing / jointing panelling and other boards.

The Board technique was very clever... it joints two boards at the same time and it's guaranteed that they will line-up for gluing.

*1.* Place each board on the router table, with a piece of scrap wood underneath them to protect table top.

*2.* Clamp one board down.

*3.* Clamp a 1x3 guide on top of that board so the router, with a 3/4" straight bit in it, will cut off maybe 1/16" (whatever it takes) off of the edge. Make sure it's parallel to the edge to get an even 1/16" cut off the edge.

*4.* Clamp the other board onto the table so the router bit will cut 1/16" (whatever it takes) from it's edge during the same cut.

*5.* The router will now ride along the 1x3 guide and the bit will go right down the middle of the two boards cutting 1/16" off of each one.

*6.* When done, each board will perfectly come together ready for glueup!

*Is that simple or what?!*


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Router is still my name said:


> Thanks for the links Joe,
> Now got to figure out how to make one side of those Alu bars perfect flat to within .0001" , I'D like to go with the SS bars because there's no flexing but Alu is easier to work with and maybe get a special router bit to shave some off or something.


I asked my cousin about this:
http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-821-7389-14-x-1-12-2024-t4-aluminum.aspx

*His reply:*
_It is my opinion that the metal listed in the link you provided would be 
very suitable as a straight edge for wood working.

I think that in 36" you might see about .01 to .02 inches of deflection 
if you applied some hand force to it. That is to say if you secured one end 
of the material, and pushed the other end with your hand so as to cause a 
difection, you might get .01 to .02 inches worth of deflection over a 36" 
inch span. *less than 1/64" over 36"*

If you did not "TRY" to deflect the straight edge while you clamped
it to your workpiece you could expect it to hold its shape very well.
_

*I asked for the top three... his reply:*
_Yes *stainless would be the best choice*, I think after that *cold roll 
steel sae-1018* would be next, but it will rust if unpainted.

Aluminum is a nice choice because it it light weight. Both of the steel 
options will be heavy. I dont know if this will be a limiting factor for 
you, but it is somthing to consider.

Also try to get a price on 6061 alum instead of 2024, its stronger, and 
I dont think its any more expensive.

You can try McMasterCarr I know they carry 6061 alum._

*1. Stainless Steel...*
http://www.speedymetals.com/p-978-14-x-1-12-303-stainless-steel-hot-rolled-annealed-pickled.aspx
http://www.speedymetals.com/p-1731-14-x-1-12-304-stainless-steel-annealed-pickled.aspx
http://www.speedymetals.com/p-2546-14-x-1-12-316-stainless-steel-annealed-pickled.aspx

*2. Cold roll steel sae-1018...* http://www.speedymetals.com/p-388-14-x-1-12-cold-finished-1018.aspx

*3. Alum. 6061...* http://www.speedymetals.com/p-2243-14-x-1-12-6061-t6511-aluminum-extruded.aspx

*4. Alum. 2024...* http://www.speedymetals.com/p-821-14-x-1-12-2024-t4-aluminum.aspx

So, there you have it... also, it might be better to go to 2" wide instead of 1.5"... to be better yet!

Very interesting... yes?


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