# Need a longer bit



## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

Rockler's Jig it hinge mortising system requires a 3/16" straight 1/4" shank router bit. The bit it sells is 2" long. It is works for the hinge body but it is not long enough to cut the deep slot for a quadrant hinge. I called Rockler and was told that even though the jig has a position for routing the slot it would not result in one deep enough. The slot is to be finished with a drill press and small chisels.
What is needed is a bit at least 3" long. I have not been able to find one.
A second question is how much of the shank MUST be in the collet. If I insert only ½” in the collet a 2” long bit almost works.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Take the collet out of the router and insert the bit a minimum of 90% into the collet and mark the shank. That would be the absolute minimum that I would insert. At 1/2 insertion you risk damaging the collet. You'll probably have to drill the remainder. I think I would use a brad point as opposed to a Forstner because the body of the brad point will help guide it straight in a hole that is already that deep.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

johnjory said:


> Rockler's Jig it hinge mortising system requires a 3/16" straight 1/4" shank router bit. The bit it sells is 2" long. It is works for the hinge body but it is not long enough to cut the deep slot for a quadrant hinge. I called Rockler and was told that even though the jig has a position for routing the slot it would not result in one deep enough. The slot is to be finished with a drill press and small chisels.
> What is needed is a bit at least 3" long. I have not been able to find one.
> A second question is how much of the shank MUST be in the collet. If I insert only ½” in the collet a 2” long bit almost works.


That is not all together true what Rockler is suggesting. 

The bit is long enough if you mortise 1" into the top and 1" into the bottom. The quadrant hinge will not work properly if only mortised into the top. Here is a mock up pictorial.

Herb


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Herb, that is excellent. Did you do that? Part of a class?

I've been thinking of using a QH on my next box project and looked at a number of videos and such on the web. All of them went into the lower part but splitting the difference makes a lot of sense.

As to insertion depth of a bit. Some of my bits (freuds but not all) come with a min insertion mark on the shaft. I learned that this should be ignored and at the very least have the shaft have contact with the full length of the collet. I always remove my collets to insert a bit and make sure that the top end of the shaft is at least flush with the top of the collet. Not only is that safer, it also minimizes runout. While you may not think that's important, if you are making a precise slot (think dove tails or box joints) even a small error is a problem. Even 0.01" makes for loose box joints, for example.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> Herb, that is excellent. Did you do that? Part of a class?
> 
> I've been thinking of using a QH on my next box project and looked at a number of videos and such on the web. All of them went into the lower part but splitting the difference makes a lot of sense.
> 
> ...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If the mortise is 1/4" wide then a mortising attachment for a drill press or a dedicated mortiser would be a good way to do that.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I've been wondering if the jigit was worth it. $50 + 8 for the QH adaptor. I think I could make a simple QH template in about an hour.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

johnjory said:


> Rockler's Jig it hinge mortising system requires a 3/16" straight 1/4" shank router bit. The bit it sells is 2" long. It is works for the hinge body but it is not long enough to cut the deep slot for a quadrant hinge. I called Rockler and was told that even though the jig has a position for routing the slot it would not result in one deep enough. The slot is to be finished with a drill press and small chisels.
> What is needed is a bit at least 3" long. I have not been able to find one.
> A second question is how much of the shank MUST be in the collet. If I insert only ½” in the collet a 2” long bit almost works.


would this help???
Robot Check


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb...
that is outstanding...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> would this help???
> Robot Check


I really don't think this would work in that the bit is 1/4"diam. and the hub would hit the side of the box not giving you any more depth. 
When I did my first one I tried a router freehand with a template and blew through the box end. I tried a dremel too with a long 9/32 spiral bit and came out the side too. The ends of my box wre only 3/8" thick so I only had 1'16" each side. Since I went to 1/2" minimum thick sides. The thicker the better.

I also made a template and used a 1/4" bit to route the hinge faces with handheld and a brass bushing. 

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops;1002857[B said:


> ]I really don't think this would work in that the bit is 1/4"diam. and the hub would hit the side of the box not giving you any more depth. [/B]
> When I did my first one I tried a router freehand with a template and blew through the box end. I tried a dremel too with a long 9/32 spiral bit and came out the side too. The ends of my box wre only 3/8" thick so I only had 1'16" each side. Since I went to 1/2" minimum thick sides. The thicker the better.
> 
> I also made a template and used a 1/4" bit to route the hinge faces with handheld and a brass bushing.
> ...


extensions are available in ¼'' also...
Robot Check

was that template done buy plunge cutting w/ the table saw???
don't let them give ya bad time over Herb...
thought out, it's a method than can be executed safely...
accurate too...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I really don't think this would work in that the bit is 1/4"diam. and the hub would hit the side of the box not giving you any more depth.
> When I did my first one I tried a router freehand with a template and blew through the box end. I tried a dremel too with a long 9/32 spiral bit and came out the side too. The ends of my box wre only 3/8" thick so I only had 1'16" each side. Since I went to 1/2" minimum thick sides. The thicker the better.
> 
> I also made a template and used a 1/4" bit to route the hinge faces with handheld and a brass bushing.
> ...


found these if any could help...
Long series straight router bits - Woodworker's Hardware


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

another page... or two...

<strong>Industrial router bits</strong>-Straight router bits, long series-CMT tools
Freud Double Flute Straight Bits


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> extensions are available in ¼'' also...
> Robot Check
> 
> was that template done buy plunge cutting w/ the table saw???
> ...


Yep, you got a good eye ,Stick, I slipped up and you caught me. I was careful and took it slow, and clamped it down.:|:|

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Yep, you got a good eye ,Stick, I slipped up and you caught me. I was careful and took it slow, and clamped it down.:|:|
> 
> Herb


I don't think ya slipped up...


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

Thank you very much for all the comments. I am using the Brusso quadrant hinge because the curved hinge bar is shorter that some of the other hinges I have seen. The bar in the Brusso hinge is an arc 1-1/2” long from tip to tip. Therefore, the mortise needs to be ¾” deep in both the top and bottom of the box. The sides of the box are ½” so the mortise for the bar shouldn’t be any wide than 3/16” since the walls of the mortise at that width would be only 5/32.” 

I think a ¼” brad point drill is too wide for extending the depth of the mortises. A 3/16” bit could work but what about run-out. Drill bit run-out is certainly much worse than that in router bits. But this was Rockler’s suggestion when I called.

The Rockler Jig seemed like a good solution to mounting quadrant hinges. They require special care if they are to be cleanly mounted. It clamps onto the bottom and the top of the box and an insert is positioned to first cut the recess for the box sides then rotated 90 degrees to cut the recess for the back of the box and lastly rotated again for cutting the deep mortise. 

I am using a Dewalt 611 router whose collet is 1-58” deep. Rockler’s recommended bit is a 3/16” straight cutting ¼” shank bit with a total length of 2”. Were I to insert the bit in the collet to the recommended 90% of the collet depth, (about 1-1/2” ) there would be only ½” of the bit extending out of the collet. The Rockler jig is 7/16.” thick. So the bit would be able to cut just deep enough for the 1/16” hinge body IF the 3/8” OD guide bushing had no thickness at all. And that assumes the use of a fixed router base that is tilted into the jig. 

To make matters more difficult I am using a plunge base as recommended by Rockler. Mine is one made by Microfence and at maximum plunge the collet is 5/16” from the plunge base surface. I have found a 2-1/2” solid carbide one flute bit made by Whiteside (SA1800). It still will not cut deep enough when inserted to the suggested depth in the collet. What is needed is a router bit with a 1” cutting length and an overall length of 3.” I have searched but havn’t found one.


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

Please excuse me. I wrote that the collet on the Router was 1-5/8” that is the total depth of the collet mounting. The collet itself is only 7/8” but mounting a 2” long router bit ¾” would make it too short for cutting the mortise required for the quadrant hinge bar.


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