# When to use biscuits or dowels



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

I have a project that I need help with. I am making an Oak wall mounting board for a neck mounted deer head. The weight of the mount is 11#.

I will be using Red Oak 1" X 8" X 24" long. I will need to laminate the boards 3 wide.

I have edge cut the boards length wise with my edge trim bit. Dry fit, the board edges are nearly impossible to see.

My question is: *How do I determine when is it best to use biscuits, or dowels, or just glue and clamp the boards?*

I do not own a biscuit cutter, but I can borrow one. Or, I can make a jig to drill holes for dowels.

I plan on making a set of cauls and I have the clamps I need for the gluing process.

I welcome your suggestions and tips.....so in advance of your replies.....*THANK YOU!!*


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Frank,

Just glue and clamp em, and let it dry good. Shouldn't be any problems.

HJ


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks John.

I think I will do that. I have glued and screwed backer boards before but nothing like this. I hope it turns out good. This is a remarkable deer my friend shot. I want to help him display it properly.


----------



## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

I agree with John. Just glue it without biscuits or dowels. An edge grain joint will be stronger than the wood around it. For edge grain joints, I consider biscuits and dowels to be alignment aids, not strength builders. For joints as short as yours, you shouldn't have alignment problems anyway. End grain is a different story. I use biscuits or dowels on end grain to add strength because the end grain doesn't glue well.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Frankj3 said:


> I have a project that I need help with. I am making an Oak wall mounting board for a neck mounted deer head. The weight of the mount is 11#.
> 
> I will be using Red Oak 1" X 8" X 24" long. I will need to laminate the boards 3 wide.
> 
> ...


spline them instead...


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Frank, I make it a point to use biscuits with sausage gravy. :jester:


----------



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

The problem with edge gluing is the boards slipping around when you try to clamp them. I was told to put a little salt on the glue right before you clamp. To be honest It took me awhile to try it because I didn't think it would work. You don't have to put salt on the entire glue joint just maybe two or three places. This works great so give it a try. The reason a lot of people use biscuits is to keep the boards lined up.


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Mike - I have that, with scrambled eggs for breakfast every morning. Yum!!


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I just got finished making a shelf for my Jet air cleaner out of two left-over pieces of plywood. The one piece had a noticeable bow in it, to the point that I really had to push down on it to get it flat on the saw table when cutting the slots, and it took a little finesse to get the two lined up when I was gluing them together. I don't use the fence on the joiner as the early PC's had a problem with it going out of alignment so just register off the bottom face. For face frames, the stile sits against the saw fence and I put a 1/4" spacer under the joiner so that the slots line up with the cabinet sides.

Before the biscuit joiner, we used to use 1/8" hardboard splines to locate face frames on the cabinets - cut the blind slots in the cabinet sides with a hand-held router and the blind slots in the stiles on the router table - set-up blocks made sure that the slots lined up.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Frank, using a caul or two for alignment is all you need to do. The glue will make the joint stronger than the wood so strength is not an issue for your mount. Biscuits or dowels make for quick alignment or as Tom mentioned you could cut a slot in both pieces and insert a spline. Not a through cut but a stopped cut with your router table and a 1/4" bit. Cut a 1/4" spline to length and you have a ton of long grain glue surface for strength. You could also use pocket hole screws on the back side if you are in a rush.


----------



## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

It depends on the number, width, length, general thickness of the boards and whether I need one or both sides flat. 

One of the things I do when just gluing pieces together is align and slide them back and forth to distribute the glue evenly then let them cook for a bit in open air before joining them. Stickier glue doesn't slip around as much and I don't over tighten the clamps. My TS bed is so much flatter than my work bench so I do all my non biscuit, dowel or spline work on it and only use my Jorgensen parallel clamps, regular bar clamps tend to force the pieces around as the pressure increases on the swivels


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys.

Since I don't have a router table the splines are out. 

I made me some cauls so I will just glue them together.

I will be using pipe clamps so I will cautiously tighten them.


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Here's the dry fit. I'm satisfied with the seams. I'm fairly certain what little seam that is visible will be behind the deer. Plus I'm pretty sure I can sand it and blend it in.

I will cover the caul sides contacting the boards with packing tape to make clean up easier.

Time for lunch.....then I will glue it ip.

This may seem trivial to most of you.....but I have never done this before. So I really appreciate the feedback I have received!!!


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Frank, wax paper and push pins to hold it in place on the cauls is a better solution than tape.


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Once it's clamped - that seam will all but disappear. Contrary to others, I clamp pretty darn tight. Just my system that seams to work.

HJ


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Mike said:


> Frank, wax paper and push pins to hold it in place on the cauls is a better solution than tape.


I should have looked here 1 more time...... LOL

I have it glued now. I think it will be great when finished.

I used blue painter's tape on the cauls. But I like your idea better. Next time I will use wax paper and push pins.

Thanks!!


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Once it's clamped - that seam will all but disappear. Contrary to others, I clamp pretty darn tight. Just my system that seams to work.
> 
> HJ


John, I clamped it hard too. I wanter to see squeeze out down the whole length of the board.....and I did. 

Thanks again for the feedback.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm liking your approach Frank . I have to build a stereo stand someday and have to do something very similar to make the levels for each component . Gotta put this one in my favorites


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Frankj3 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys.
> 
> Since I don't have a router table the splines are out.
> 
> ...


You don't need a router table to cut the slots for splines - clamp the board to your bench with some overhang, mark the end points of the slot and use a hand-held router. You just need to eye-ball center in the board, just make sure that you have all good sides either up or down.

You don't need a tremendous amount of force to get a good glue joint, and too much pressure can actually result in a "starved" joint if all the glue is squeezed out. The major glue manufacturers probably put out some guidelines for you to follow - just remember, if you need an excessive amount of force to get a tight joint on your dry run, you need to re-do the faces. On a good assembly, the joint line should pretty much disappear with just hand pressure. Here is one article that quotes Titebond's recommendations Take it easy with clamping pressure, you can find more by searching for "Clamping Pressure for Wood Joints".


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Tom, I wish I had taken a picture of the squeeze out. I did not spare any glue.....Tite Bond 2. I used a lot. I let it air dry a minute or so to get "tacky". Then I clamped and squeezed the boards. My squeeze outs were more like small bubbles rather than globs of glue being pushed out. I will say the squeeze out was pretty much equal on both sides of the board.

I have locked it up in my shed to keep myself from fiddling with it!! LOL. I will remove the clamps and cauls tomorrow afternoon. I may even let it sit another 24 hours before I start any work on the board.

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## ken.dowswell (May 22, 2015)

I bought biscuits at LV and a 1/8" slot cutter. Using the router, it worked perfectly. No walking, everything was properly aligned and simple.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Frankj3 said:


> Thanks for all the input guys.
> 
> Since I don't have a router table the splines are out.
> 
> ...


splines are best done free hand w/ a slot cutter...


----------



## Keith C (Jan 23, 2012)

What glue do you guys rely on for this type of joint?


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Keith C said:


> What glue do you guys rely on for this type of joint?


Can't beat Titebond.


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

+1 on the titebond

HJ


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Franklin makes Titebond...


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ghidrah said:


> It depends on the number, width, length, general thickness of the boards and whether I need one or both sides flat.
> 
> One of the things I do when just gluing pieces together is align and slide them back and forth to distribute the glue evenly then let them cook for a bit in open air before joining them. Stickier glue doesn't slip around as much and I don't over tighten the clamps.


I edge band plywood a lot and find the same thing - a thin zig-zag line of glue along the length of the ply and then push the edge banding down and move it back-and-forth a little to get the glue spread uniformly - too much glue is not good for this application (and then there's the mess to clean up afterwards) - and the glue really grabs the banding. If the finished part has to look good, I "clamp" the edge banding with masking tape, no brads - although I do sometimes cheat and pin nail it in a couple of places. LV sells a green tape for this 3M Binding Tape - Lee Valley Tools a little expensive but heavier and has a little more stretch that the brown tape, works very well.


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Keith C said:


> What glue do you guys rely on for this type of joint?


Keith, I used Tite Bond II. I did not worry about being water proof. It's for hanging a deer head in a house.


----------



## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

Once you can look past the deer, notice the Red Oak board I made for the mount. LOL

This is the 3/4" Red Oak that I edge laminated.....glued only.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Nice deer, nice plaque.

Herb


----------

