# Isn't Fine Dust Bad for You...?



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Thought I'd put this under Safety only because of the incredible modification made to dust collection (see about 5:30 into it)...

...must have been a good idea at the time...


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Nick, the one word answer is *yes*, and some more so than others.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Planers put out fluffy chips, not sawdust so this might be OK for that use only. 

I saw a small drum style filter advertised last week by Rockler, the kind with the folded paper filter enclosed in a metalic mesh-walled drum. His container with a drum filter on top might make a decent small shop unit, but you'd probably have to put the intake into the side, or even build a circular unit to go between the collection drum and the filter to create a cyclonic air flow. Air would enter, circle, the chips and larger particles would fall down, the finest dust would go to the filter. You clean drum filters by occasionally blowing compressed air through the outside to blow the sawdust out. 

The question posed was about how dangerous fine sawdust is. There are two dangers, first, some woods produce sawdust that has harmful, even carcinogenic, chemical qualities. Second is that though the lungs can clear some larger particles, the finest sawdust stays in forever, reducing oxygen/CO2 exchange and lung capacity, and producing lots of phlem (wet coughing). If you have a heart condition, the second problem can trigger heart attacks, dependence on supplemental oxygen , and constant fatigue and breathlessness. Even with the best dust collection, wearing a good mask should be standard procedure in any shop.

According to a detailed article I read on dust collection, but can't seem to locate again, home shops have far higher fine suspended dust concentrations than commercial shops. In fact, the article suggest that if OSHA inspected most of our shops, they'd shut us down. I keep simple passive dust masks handy and put one on almost every time I go into the shop for more than a few minutes. 

The biggest dust problem in my shop has been that it is so full of stuff that it is hard to get the collector hose into all the corners. I've been putting doors on all cabinets to reduce infiltration, but its the dust in every crevice that is really problematic. I recently purchased a couple of HF dust collection carts (2hp), and put a canister filter on top of the one in the shop, which has reduced random dust significantly, but it is still everywhere. I'm thinking of adding an overhead filter box to clean up the airborne sawdust. 

If I seem obsessive, it's because I'm a throat cancer survivor and don't want a repeat bout with that disease.


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## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

Fine dust is very bad for you and is why so many people in the construction industry eventually develop COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disorder) in later years. I had a family member who was diagnosed with COPD at age 55 and who died relatively young as a result. All from breathing too much fine wood dust.

In order to deal with dust it should always be collected at the point of production using a shop vac or dust collector rather than by attempting to catch it in one of those suspended air cleaners after you already breathed some of it.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

A bit more. I recently purchased two, 2hp Harbor Freight DC units. They were on sale plus a 20% coupon. One is in my shop, the other in my garage. Each hooks up to my machines via 20 foot long hose that pulls itself short and straight when the DC is on. I also have a hanging DC filtering unit in the shop and one coming for the garage, where I only do a moderate amount of sawdust making. Both units have a chip collector before the DC blower intake. 

All that said, I will generally wear a surgical style mask, or if I'm doing MDF, a powered positive pressure nose and mouth mask. My safety glasses have wrap around lenses to help keep the dust away, and my battery powered mask lets the air out through valves, but also a small amount of filtered air blows across my cheek and defogs my glasses. 

The DC unit in my shop has a drum type, 1 micron folded paper filter, so the air exits into the room, but is quite clean. The hanging filter unit is located so much of the air exiting the filter gets re-filtered by the hanging unit. The hanging filter goes on for several hours so I can leave and come back to very clean air. Sawdust control takes a lot of effort, particularly in a small shop area. The EPA found that most home shops are far worse for air quality than most commercial shops. 

Sawdust is insidious and goes everywhere, especially behind tools and in hard to reach corners.. In my shop, I have gradually put all my tools on enclosed stands (with tight fitting doors), so I can move them to vacuum up the stray dust. It has been slow going, but most of the hard to get stuff is in those locations. I have also been keeping all items up, 16 inches from the floor so I can get into those corners with a 4 inch vacuum attachment just for that purpose.

I also have smaller hoses and fittings set up so one end of the hose fits into the 4 inch connector on the 20 ft. flex hose. This allows me to occasionally vacuum shelving and items on shelves. The same setup works for the 2.5 inch ports on several smaller tools.

At some point, as budget allows, I will set up some sort of DC over the table saw blade to feed dust into the second intake of the DC unit.

So, all this may seem excessive to some, but it used to be that if I went to the shop, I was coughing within a few minutes. Now, I no longer have any coughing going on even hours later. This makes the shop a much more inviting place to go and play. Was having a great shop atmosphere to play in worth the near $1,000 investment so far? Hell yes. It is nice to know that I'm not destroying my health too.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Why not use a respirator Arco Website - Sundstrom SR 100 Half Mask Respirator from Sundstrom - Product 168600 ?
You can avoid all the risks even COPD


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Basically the guy built a cyclone but he should have continued on to a finer filter. He's catching the chips but redistributing the part that is dangerous. I have a lot of wood that had been sitting around for years and it can get quite dusty when planing it.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I am redoing my DC because I want a planer.

And I worry about fine dust.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

coxhaus said:


> I am redoing my DC because I want a planer.
> 
> And I worry about fine dust.


Planers usually produce more chips than sawdust, but they produce a LOT of it, and it is fluffy so it fills up your barrel pretty fast. Check frequently so the chips don't back up. I've seen nothing but praise for the unit you've chosen. You do need a filter at the end of the system to keep the fine dust from rsimply returning to your shop.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I am planning to route all the fine dust out the back of my shop where there will be no open windows. My saw dust is passing through 2 cyclones. The Cincinnati motor unit also has a cyclone in the second 55 gal drum. So the saw dust will come into the Super Dust Deputy first and then what dust makes it out of the Super Dust Deputy will pass through the Cincinnati cyclone where the motor and fan are on the second drum. After the second drum what saw dust is left will be routed outside. Hopefully there will not be much saw dust left going outside. 

Time will tell after I get it running. The next step if there is still saw dust I may try to bubble the outside in some water to cut down on dust coming outside by trying to capture what is left in water. This is only if I see a lot of saw dust outside after running my DC for a while.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

One of the big changes in the RouterForums since I joined, and one of the changes for the better is overt recognition and discussion of dust control. 

That said, I am somewhat surprised that so far in this thread there has been no mention of face masks. The most dangerous particles are those in the 1 micron (1 micrometer, 1 µm) diameter rough particles. These particles are roughly the size of bacteria, and the body essentially deals with them as bacteria. So they readily get from lung alveoli to blood stream, whereas larger particles do not. Toxicity is a different but equally important issue. The last line of defense for a woodworker should be a NIOSH N95 spec face mask. the spec requires blockage of 95% of particles 0.3 µm diameter, the size of some viruses. These masks are very economical and readily available from such places as Lee Valley and Rockler. One disadvantage is that facial hair can prevent a seal. It makes no sense to me to spend hundreds on dust collection but not spend tens on packs of 10 or so disposable face masks.


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## Gary L Mosier (Dec 22, 2016)

Good stuff right here. Since I don't have any sort of dust collection besides an old shop vac, i'll be using a mask for sure. 1 micron - as I learned above! 

thanks!


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Like Tom, (mftha) I ALWAYS wear a dust mask when cutting wood in my shop. I do have a dust collector that is always in use as well, but, and this is MY opinion here, I don't believe ANY dust collection system catches all the dust. I have plans to start using a box fan with a simple furnace filter taped to the intake side. This is to catch most of what is floating in the air. I know it won't catch all of it, and certainly won't catch the fine dust, but it's better than what I have now, which is nothing.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

BrianS said:


> Like Tom, (mftha) I ALWAYS wear a dust mask when cutting wood in my shop. I do have a dust collector that is always in use as well, but, and this is MY opinion here, I don't believe ANY dust collection system catches all the dust. I have plans to start using a box fan with a simple furnace filter taped to the intake side. This is to catch most of what is floating in the air. I know it won't catch all of it, and certainly won't catch the fine dust, but it's better than what I have now, which is nothing.


PLEASE! Do yourself a favor and just buy one of these: https://www.amazon.com/WEN-3410-3-S...1482529808&sr=8-1&keywords=wen+dust+extractor.

You can't really get the same filtration and air flow rate from the fan/filter combination--I tried and the difference between the two methods is noticable. It is about $130, that's all, and also check out the Harbor Freight 2hp DC unit, which goes on sale from time to time. I bought mine for $187 on sale with a 20 percent coupon. The difference is amazing, and it will cost you much less in the end than that to try to patch togther a home made system that won't work as well. The tiny particles do not come out of your lungs, every day you delay doing proper DC, is another day of damage. And, some of that sawdust is actually carcinogenic. Masks, DC, air filters all can give you extra years of happy life. Invest in your own wellbeing.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Boy...did I screw up...

Title was supposed to say "*Isn't* fine dust bad for you"...pointing out the open can (in the video) that the planer was blowing into and that it would spread sawdust all over the place.

But thank you all for the concern and advice...it's good that forum members watch out for each other...

Thanks


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Hey Tom Grizzly tools has an air filter system on sale for Christmas and it is cheaper than the WEN one. The Grizzly is $99 as of a couple of days ago. Check it out. It looks the same as the WEN unit.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I thing the Griz and the WEN are identical units. Whichever is cheaper, but since I have Prime, there's no shipping charge. Not sure what Grizzly charges for shipping, but I got the WEN before the Griz sale.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Nickp said:


> Boy...did I screw up...
> 
> Title was supposed to say "*Isn't* fine dust bad for you"...pointing out the open can (in the video) that the planer was blowing into and that it would spread sawdust all over the place.
> 
> ...


Changed albeit a little late. It has gotten a conversation going and information has been exchanged which is always a good thing.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you, Charles...I agree...good conversation has been had...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Good point guys , as dust is always a good subject to discuss . Interesting seeing how others deal with it too .


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## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

Yes, but has she been tested for a face fit?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Awesome!


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## Albe (Jan 2, 2017)

Tiny said:


> Why not use a respirator?
> You can avoid all the risks even COPD


Now I know 2 people named Esko. Lol. I worked with a guy for 18 years named Esko who was from Finland as well. Thanks for the advice.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

In the case of this Tiny the name is ironic, he's either 6'8" or 6' 9".


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## Albe (Jan 2, 2017)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> In the case of this Tiny the name is ironic, he's either 6'8" or 6' 9".


LOL. That's very helpful when installing upper cabinets!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Installing cabinets is NOT my favorite activity. I'm 5'7" and need a step stool for nearly everything. For me, 8ft is pretty much a cathedral ceiling. LOL


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## truepusk (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks guys, great thread. So do you think the N95 masks are good enough when dealing with MDF? Also is there a difference between 'NIOSH approved N95' and masks (such as some of the 3m ones) that are just advertised as N95?


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