# Carving with the router



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

Simple carving project with the router



YouTube - 0000 Carving with the router


----------



## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

Best video yet, Tom. The last one moved a little quickly. Plus that old guy is pretty good with the router.:sarcastic:


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

hahahahahahahahahahaha, Harry with hair hahahahaha

must be about 10 years ago 

Looks like the CMT/Milescraft version way..
CMT 3D Router Carver System
CMT 3D Router Carver System - Woodcraft.com

========


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Yep that video made a lot more sense. 
BJ I didn't see any hair...LOL


----------



## Al Robins (Jul 13, 2009)

Who did you say was the old dude with the router??? Is Harry back on deck........good video.......Regards........AL


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That video was shot here in my shed some 18 to 24 months ago, I did at the time post some shots. Because this was just an experiment, the templates were not laminated, had they been, the router would have slid along as if Teflon coated!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Can you post a true drawing of the template you used in the video  PLEASE 


==========


harrysin said:


> That video was shot here in my shed some 18 to 24 months ago, I did at the time post some shots. Because this was just an experiment, the templates were not laminated, had they been, the router would have slid along as if Teflon coated!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> Can you post a true drawing of the template you used in the video  PLEASE
> 
> ...


Bob, because I didn't design it, I don't think that it would be right for ME to show it, but I'm sure that someone else will!


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

a quick coat of paste wax on the template surface will let the router glide much more smoothly but the wax does need to be renewed periodically to maintain the effect. 




harrysin said:


> That video was shot here in my shed some 18 to 24 months ago, I did at the time post some shots. Because this was just an experiment, the templates were not laminated, had they been, the router would have slid along as if Teflon coated!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Your right ,, 

========



harrysin said:


> Bob, because I didn't design it, I don't think that it would be right for ME to show it, but I'm sure that someone else will!


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> Can you post a true drawing of the template you used in the video  PLEASE
> 
> ...


Bj

Here is the drawing I produced it can be made any size you like to suit your needs


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Tom

THANK YOU FOR THE DRAWING 

========



Tom76 said:


> Bj
> 
> Here is the drawing I produced it can be made any size you like to suit your needs


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

They look great to me Bj and I'm not the least surprised . I'm eager to see the the finished carving.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Thanks
.


========



harrysin said:


> They look great to me Bj and I'm not the least surprised . I'm eager to see the the finished carving.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I promise Bj that you won't get any flack from me or from all our regular members.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry


It's funny the 1st.one I made looked like a bow-tie  hahahahahahaha
but I did find a new way to make a bow-tie  and a pair of butterfly wings  hahahahahaha

By the way what is this pattern for ?, I don't recall seeing it b/4.

see 1st. picture below, 2nd and 3rd pictures are yours Harry



==========


harrysin said:


> I promise Bj that you won't get any flack from me or from all our regular members.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry


The one below was just a test board ( old pine ) I took out the fine edge of the cir..and I got in a rush..  but it's ok ,just a test board but I know what not to do next time.. 

Some may say but what can you do with it ,, it will make a great drawer front with a knob right in the center of the design or on cabinet doors...

Some will say I can do the same thing with the MilesCraft jig but you can't do the oval part, that's the hard part.. 


===========


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

How do you know how to rotate the pattern? When you look at the pattern it has nothing to do with the final design. So how do you figure that out? This is obviously a skill one needs to develop.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

Look at Tom's drawing real hard,,you will see it..

Don't look at the template but look at the path of the router bit..you will see the path cutting the design out..and how to flip it....after the 1st pass..
I cut the two long ones 1st. and then I saw it..but I thought I goofed but the oval pass will clean it all up...

By the way I used the scroll saw to cut the templates out..
and a 3/4" drill bit..for a 3/4" brass guide..and I use a 1/4" router bit and a 1/2" bit on the oval pass..

====




CanuckGal said:


> How do you know how to rotate the pattern? When you look at the pattern it has nothing to do with the final design. So how do you figure that out? This is obviously a skill one needs to develop.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Deb,

+1 on BJ's "path of the router bit". The other thing is the pattern is of the part you're removing, not the end end design. That was the hurdle I had to jump to see it.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob, once again you have proved that a picture is worth a thousand words, once you saw the template you had no difficulty coming good with a Bj version and the final project does you proud. I won't point out your slip up if you don't point out mine in this shot showing how I finished it.
As you said, there are other ways of producing something similar, but this is after all a ROUTER forum, and this project designed by TT was simply an exercise in routing and wasn't intended to be a specific object. 
It's obvious to everyone that in the past couple of years you have embraced a number of new techniques from the forum like routing with template guides using female templates, ski routing and what about jigs using cams etc.
In all fairness to you Bob, we have all learned a great deal from you. Long may we carry on.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Harry

By the way what is this pattern for ?, I don't recall seeing it b/4.
Router Forums - View Single Post - Carving with the router

===========



harrysin said:


> Bob, once again you have proved that a picture is worth a thousand words, once you saw the template you had no difficulty coming good with a Bj version and the final project does you proud. I won't point out your slip up if you don't point out mine in this shot showing how I finished it.
> As you said, there are other ways of producing something similar, but this is after all a ROUTER forum, and this project designed by TT was simply an exercise in routing and wasn't intended to be a specific object.
> It's obvious to everyone that in the past couple of years you have embraced a number of new techniques from the forum like routing with template guides using female templates, ski routing and what about jigs using cams etc.
> In all fairness to you Bob, we have all learned a great deal from you. Long may we carry on.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

This is for Jim

Hope it helps Jim 
This is just my way and not the only way..

=========


----------



## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi BJ,

I think even I could follow this.... Thanks!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

Your welcome it's one of the fun things to do with the router ..

=======



Bob said:


> Hi BJ,
> 
> I think even I could follow this.... Thanks!


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Thanks, BJ.. The pictures really reinforce our PMs last night and I thank you for posting them as I requested. 

Jim


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Your Welcome Jim

You may want to check out the post below, you can use your scroll saw and your cam jig to make the same thing..but for pennies with some 1/4" thick MDF or hardboard..

Note ,,check out his link,,what they use to line up a base plate,,a 1/4" bolt and a disk to fit in the base plate hole..neat and cheap and easy way to do it.. 

http://www.routerforums.com/vendor-...liday-bowls-trays-your-router.html#post142594


=======



BigJimAK said:


> Thanks, BJ.. The pictures really reinforce our PMs last night and I thank you for posting them as I requested.
> 
> Jim


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, it's time to sell your Milescraft templates, you've just proved that you're capable of making your own. Your photo shoot was excellent and in spite of me hearing that at least one member considers it impossible to learn anything from photo shoots, I reckon that this isn't the general feeling.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> 
> It's funny the 1st.one I made looked like a bow-tie  hahahahahahaha
> ...


It isn't for anything Bob, it was just an exercise in template design and routing with template guides intended to increase members routing skills which I think it did at the time and this new photo shoot of yours will no doubt do the same for newer members.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

harrysin said:


> Bj, it's time to sell your Milescraft templates, you've just proved that you're capable of making your own. Your photo shoot was excellent and in spite of me hearing that at least one member considers it impossible to learn anything from photo shoots, I reckon that this isn't the general feeling.


 
Harry,

We are all learning new things.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I need to cheat,,I don't have the math skills like Tom has,,I took a hard look at his drawing and I was amazed how much math it took to get that down on paper..let alone to get it to work out right..so to say I need to keep the Milescraft templates I can use them to cheat a little bit if I want to blow them out a little bit..

I know I can fire up my computer and use the software programs I have but I just want to use the router for now ...

=========



harrysin said:


> Bj, it's time to sell your Milescraft templates, you've just proved that you're capable of making your own. Your photo shoot was excellent and in spite of me hearing that at least one member considers it impossible to learn anything from photo shoots, I reckon that this isn't the general feeling.


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I have NO idea how Tom figures that out. How do you look at something and figure out if you make two little holes in a board and rotate it you can create that design?
BJ I have the Milescraft set too. That's the only way I'd ever be able to do it.


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

harrysin said:


> Bj, it's time to sell your Milescraft templates, you've just proved that you're capable of making your own. Your photo shoot was excellent and in spite of me hearing that at least one member considers it impossible to learn anything from photo shoots, I reckon that this isn't the general feeling.


Sorry Harry

As I am the one that has been saying it is not possible from a photo shoot. Note; What was produced, was not from a photo shoot there was a detailed drawing to get it started.

Tom


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> I have NO idea how Tom figures that out. How do you look at something and figure out if you make two little holes in a board and rotate it you can create that design?
> BJ I have the Milescraft set too. That's the only way I'd ever be able to do it.


It has to start from some detailed drawing and once you get into the habit of using the template guides it is easy to follow. It is not necessary to have a computer drawing like the one I presented all that is required is some sort of drawing on a flat board that will be used as the template. There will be a need to decide on what guides and cutters are to be used before the final shape of the cut-out is made.

Tom


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> 
> It's funny the 1st.one I made looked like a bow-tie  hahahahahahaha
> ...


 The template you are referring to is a copy of my design for a 12 sided clock

Tom


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

I *noticed* that they didn't show you how the template system works! 



bobj3 said:


> Your Welcome Jim
> 
> You may want to check out the post below, you can use your scroll saw and your cam jig to make the same thing..but for pennies with some 1/4" thick MDF or hardboard..
> 
> ...


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Tom76 said:


> Sorry Harry
> 
> As I am the one that has been saying it is not possible from a photo shoot. Note; What was produced, was not from a photo shoot there was a detailed drawing to get it started.
> 
> Tom


Tom,

I see what you're saying but I believe its mostly a matter of semantics. The drawing is what I'd work from to make the template to precisely copy what you've done but at least *I* need to understand what I'm trying to accomplish. For *myself*, I wasn't able to make heads nor tails of the drawing until I saw the video and photos. Once I had the picture in my head of what I was doing, I could figure out the detailed drawing. There's still a couple of nuances I need to work through, such as sizing the bushing / bit size correctly to get the desired appearance at the "intersection of the leaves".

The drawing (once I fully master it) provides the technical details but its the photo shoot (still or video) that make me feel like its do-able by me. The video provides the step-by-step progress but adding the still pictures, that I can set and study, helps me get my head around what the drawing is conveying.

Used together, they make a powerful learning tool.

Thanks to all of you!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, if you too used CAD, I'm certain that after a short time you would master template design without having to take a college maths course. I'll be very surprised if in the very near future you don't show us some original designs.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jim

It's like the bikini thing, they don't want to show it all at one time.. they want to get the bucks 1st.. 

It's very strait up setup,,just make the templates on the scroll saw or what every and use the bit with the bearing or without the bearing and use the brass guides and it's done very quick and easy ,the bit will do all the work.. make the template a little bit bigger and you can use the template to cut the outside as well with a plunge bit..and a trim bit for the clean up..

======



BigJimAK said:


> I *noticed* that they didn't show you how the template system works!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

Thanks,,I think I found it 

Router Forums
Router Forums - View Single Post - New Contest June 15 2007


Router Forums
Router Forums
http://www.routerforums.com/guide-bushings-templates/4100-visit-master-himself.html


===========



Tom76 said:


> The template you are referring to is a copy of my design for a 12 sided clock
> 
> Tom


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

BigJimAK said:


> Tom,
> 
> I see what you're saying but I believe its mostly a matter of semantics. The drawing is what I'd work from to make the template to precisely copy what you've done but at least *I* need to understand what I'm trying to accomplish. For *myself*, I wasn't able to make heads nor tails of the drawing until I saw the video and photos. Once I had the picture in my head of what I was doing, I could figure out the detailed drawing. There's still a couple of nuances I need to work through, such as sizing the bushing / bit size correctly to get the desired appearance at the "intersection of the leaves".
> 
> ...


Jim

What I have tried to say in my posting is to get others to understand the benefits of using the guides. There is a need to produce some form of sketch and detailed drawing. I looked at a shape from my garden kneeler and asked myself could it be done with the router. I also posted the question on the CNC topic some time ago to see if it was possible and I was told that it could be produced with such machines as the Milescraft though really I was asking could it be done with a hand held router. At that stage I was not sure if it could be done so I set out to give it a try to keep my interest in what the router is capable of doing without going to great expense in the purchase of other machinery. There were no photographs or video for me to follow but I had a go and I was satisfied in what I had produced. I could submit a great number of photo shoots of various projects and it would be difficult for anyone else to follow without the initial drawings required to produce the templates and yes I have made many that did not work out correct the first time. I suppose all I was asking of others is to have a go and see what will materialize from the effort made. Too many router users simply place the router in the table mode and are unaware of the benefits of the guides. Yes you do have to work round the guides and cutters you will use and that was where I first learned the use of the 40mm guide that caused a great deal of concern with members when I first posted the idea of using it.

Your comment "Used together they are a powerful learning Tool" This was my point; _looking at pictures does not give the answer_ and I will still standby that statement. I had already posted the how to do 'Photo shoot' which illustrated that it was impossible to produce the carving without the use of the initial material 'Some sort of drawing' 'that does not require a Cad program to produce'. That part of the process made all the difference to at least one member who then proceeded to have success.

Tom


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

We've no disagreement, Tom. If we want to make something and want it to be more (your choice: accurate, consistent, reproducible) than free-handed work, some form of template or jig is required. 

On photo shoots I believe we're also "on the same page", I suspect we are just using the term differently. My basis for this is your statement "I could submit a great number of photo shoots of various projects and it would be difficult for anyone else to follow without the initial drawings required to produce the templates". 

I'm interpreting this to mean (correct me if I am wrong) that your use of "photo shoot" would be photos of the templates themselves and of them in use. I agree, those photos, in and of themselves, would be useless without the initial drawings used to create the templates.

My use of "photo shoot" equates to supplementing text, drawings and other documents with photographs to round out the learning experience. This is to be contrasted with some people (and I've been guilty too often) only taking a picture of the finished product. Many a time I've looked at a finished piece and thought "that'd be impossible for me". Maybe I wouldn't have felt that way if I saw how straightforward it was to make it.

Let's cosider this in terms of the steps required to complete something like your carving with a router. I'll likely miss some or get some out of order but I'm trying so please bear with me:

(1) Identify what it is you wasnt to create / duplicate
(2) Create a drawing of the item.
(3) Decide on the optimal bit / guide combination
(4) Decide how to break the overall design up into discreet templates
(5) Draw in the template-level information of your drawing.
(6) Turn the drawing into template(s)
(7) Use the template to create your result.

Each of these steps could be turned into individual presentations, some could be clustered and some of them could be left for "others" to teach. In my opinion, each of these could be photo shoots with plenty of text added, some with links to videos.

For me personally, items 2-5 would be the highest value (though I'd enjoy the others too).

Items 6 & 7 would provide *me* little interest, except akin to a monie trailer... That gets people (me) to go watch the main event.

You indicate people were hesitant to use 40mm cutters when you presented it (it was before my time here). Today, whenever guide bushings are discussed there's a number of people (including BobJ, myself and an ever-increasing pool of others) who promote the use of 1-1/2" (38mm, the largest commonly available here) guides in lieu of the 1-3/16" PC guides. BJ was even nice enough to prepare a photo shoot for me on how to easily modify PC-sized templates to the larger size.

I wasn't here at the time and am not here to quibble over who was first, second or third with an idea. I am saying that it appears to me that people are giving it a go and seeing opportunities in what they see. Whether or not it ends up being the "best" solution for each person for each router function has yet to be determined but it is being added as a "tool in the toolbox".




Tom76 said:


> Jim
> 
> What I have tried to say in my posting is to get others to understand the benefits of using the guides. There is a need to produce some form of sketch and detailed drawing. I looked at a shape from my garden kneeler and asked myself could it be done with the router. I also posted the question on the CNC topic some time ago to see if it was possible and I was told that it could be produced with such machines as the Milescraft though really I was asking could it be done with a hand held router. At that stage I was not sure if it could be done so I set out to give it a try to keep my interest in what the router is capable of doing without going to great expense in the purchase of other machinery. There were no photographs or video for me to follow but I had a go and I was satisfied in what I had produced. I could submit a great number of photo shoots of various projects and it would be difficult for anyone else to follow without the initial drawings required to produce the templates and yes I have made many that did not work out correct the first time. I suppose all I was asking of others is to have a go and see what will materialize from the effort made. Too many router users simply place the router in the table mode and are unaware of the benefits of the guides. Yes you do have to work round the guides and cutters you will use and that was where I first learned the use of the 40mm guide that caused a great deal of concern with members when I first posted the idea of using it.
> 
> ...


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

It's a lovely warm Sunday afternoon and I've been sat in front of my computer for some time wondering if in fact I'm wasting my time presenting projects complete with detailed photo shoots which do in fact take a lot of time to produce. I spent a lot of time going through my gallery and came to the conclusion that any hobbyist should be capable of producing similar projects after following such a thread and possibly printing out some of the shots. I've only ever intended to show how I do things and have never suggested that my way is the best, simplest, safest or only way. Whenever I have presented a project that requires templates, I have shown exactly how I make such templates, I have never presented a project in small episodes, looking for members reaction, I have presented them complete. This link to one of my past projects does I think illustrate the above. Rightly or wrongly, it's my opinion that most hobbyists can follow a series of annotated photographs far more easily than technical drawings, but perhaps it's just that I'm basically a fairly simple sort of guy. 

http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/5483-another-project-harry.html


----------



## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

Harry, some people are very good at presenting an easy to follow photo shoot. You are one of those people, so don't stop. When Tom appeared on this forum, I found his methods very intriguing, but hard to follow. I wasn't able to figure it out until you came along, and I could study the posts from the both of you. I think these videos are the best way yet for Tom to present his ideas. And I think more people will try it, now that they can see the router in action.

Just a tip for those members in an imperial world - Don't be discouraged by the presentations being in metric. The idea is not to build a duplicate, but just to give it a try, so use what you've got. I usually draw out my projects on graph paper that has 1/4" squares. It is very simple to mark the dimensions of your guide and bit on the paper, then your offset for the template is right there. I would imagine, if you live in a metric world, you would have paper with metric squares. And it would be just as easy.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Rusty

I will 2nd.that..

Talking about paper, you and others can get a FREE
Graph paper Printer
Graph Paper Printer - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com

that can be printed right off your own printer in a flash and it's freeeeeeeeeee 
I use it when the plans that are in the metric way and the graph will print it in the right way for me 


========



RustyW said:


> Harry, some people are very good at presenting an easy to follow photo shoot. You are one of those people, so don't stop. When Tom appeared on this forum, I found his methods very intriguing, but hard to follow. I wasn't able to figure it out until you came along, and I could study the posts from the both of you. I think these videos are the best way yet for Tom to present his ideas. And I think more people will try it, now that they can see the router in action.
> 
> Just a tip for those members in an imperial world - Don't be discouraged by the presentations being in metric. The idea is not to build a duplicate, but just to give it a try, so use what you've got. I usually draw out my projects on graph paper that has 1/4" squares. It is very simple to mark the dimensions of your guide and bit on the paper, then your offset for the template is right there. I would imagine, if you live in a metric world, you would have paper with metric squares. And it would be just as easy.


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

harrysin said:


> It's a lovely warm Sunday afternoon and I've been sat in front of my computer for some time wondering if in fact I'm wasting my time presenting projects complete with detailed photo shoots which do in fact take a lot of time to produce. I spent a lot of time going through my gallery and came to the conclusion that any hobbyist should be capable of producing similar projects after following such a thread and possibly printing out some of the shots. I've only ever intended to show how I do things and have never suggested that my way is the best, simplest, safest or only way. Whenever I have presented a project that requires templates, I have shown exactly how I make such templates, I have never presented a project in small episodes, looking for members reaction, I have presented them complete. This link to one of my past projects does I think illustrate the above. Rightly or wrongly, it's my opinion that most hobbyists can follow a series of annotated photographs far more easily than technical drawings, but perhaps it's just that I'm basically a fairly simple sort of guy.
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/5483-another-project-harry.html


Harry, I agree there was no need for any sort of drawing to produce the simple box you demonstrated in your photo shoot. But it was evident from the replies that it was impossible to produce the carving without first producing the detailed drawing. 
My point again there is a need to sit down and sketch the proposed article and then produce a full size drawing before the template is produced as there are calculations re Guides and cutters to consider.
All I ask is for members to think along that line of thought if they wish to produce other projects. Just like the procedure Jim has listed above.
Tom


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

My personal opinion, based on probably hundreds of conversations with hobbyists who have watched your demonstrations, don't forget all the wood shows and Saturday morning demonstrations that I attended with you and discussed what you were doing, the overwhelming opinions were that for a one off project, they were not prepared to go to the trouble of making complex, or even any template, even if they knew how, because in the time it would take, they could have the project completed by other well tried means.
Now don't anyone get me wrong, I have always stated clearly that once one has learned Toms techniques they will be able to solve any routing problem. I have also clearly stated that on a one on one lesson there is no finer teacher of the router, however, I have also stated numerous times that up to now, Tom has lacked the ability to pass his knowledge on to others by the written word.
Just think about it for a moment, how many members are likely to make templates for a flower compared to those who would like to make an elliptical or any other shape box or a clock or any number of other items that only require simple to design and make templates. I have the 3D router templates and special cutter like Bj and several other members, we purchased these because they will be used many times and would not be a proposition to attempt to make.
What I have been attempting to get through to Tom is what people have consistently been telling me, they want to see complete projects in one go, not in tiny episodes aimed at getting some interest, this approach together with complicated technical drawings are counter productive.
Members from time to time quote routing books and their authors who have presented certain techniques and projects, all clearly produced with step by step photographs or very clear coloured line drawings, both simple to follow.
I remember some years ago when you contacted an American woodworking magazine and they offered to supply you with a large quantity of film (that suggests how long ago it was) but you didn't take up the offer because your method of teaching relied on technical type drawings other than photographs of routers and template guides.
I have never set out to be an obstructionist, only to show you how I think you will make progress on all the forums that you have tried. I can assure you that if I had your knowledge I would have taught using conventional methods, had several books published plus several DVD's and made a heap of money along the way.


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

Quote From Jim
"Let's cosider this in terms of the steps required to complete something like your carving with a router. I'll likely miss some or get some out of order but I'm trying so please bear with me:

(1) Identify what it is you wasnt to create / duplicate
(2) Create a drawing of the item.
(3) Decide on the optimal bit / guide combination
(4) Decide how to break the overall design up into discreet templates
(5) Draw in the template-level information of your drawing.
(6) Turn the drawing into template(s)
(7) Use the template to create your result.

Each of these steps could be turned into individual presentations, some could be clustered and some of them could be left for "others" to teach. In my opinion, each of these could be photo shoots with plenty of text added, some with links to video"

Jim. I agree with your points listed and yes each of the steps could be turned into a presentation 
Maybe we should start with
(a) Do I want to take up the challenge and create such a project? No matter what the project might be.
(b) Can I use the "Conventional method" I have been using for years. OR do I need to learn introduce new routing techniques
(c) I must ensure the method I will finally use will be a SAFE method.
Then proceed with the stages you have listed above

Tom


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

*Taking up the Challenge*

Jim

Enclosed project experimenting with this week takes into consideration all the points listed above as it was Safer to produce using New routing techniques.
The smallest tables I have ever produced. They were to be used as Flower pot stands in church.They will be replaced with good solid timber as these were produced as samples in pine.


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

Missed the legs


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I've gone as far back as I can through Tom's threads and nowhere can I find one describing/showing how to design/make the templates which he clearly states are a precursor to any and all projects. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry


Here's two of them..

=========



harrysin said:


> I've gone as far back as I can through Tom's threads and nowhere can I find one describing/showing how to design/make the templates which he clearly states are a precursor to any and all projects. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Quote from Tom

Jim. I agree with your points listed and yes each of the steps could be turned into a presentation 
Maybe we should start with
(a) Do I want to take up the challenge and create such a project? No matter what the project might be.
(b) Can I use the "Conventional method" I have been using for years. OR do I need to learn introduce new routing techniques
(c) I must ensure the method I will finally use will be a SAFE method.
Then proceed with the stages you have listed above

Tom. I agree that these steps are precursors to any project. Step (a) is "build, buy or do without". This is a basic life-decision, whether we're talking woodworking, farming or ranching.

Step (b) I agree with, but "Conventional method" must be clarified. For some "Conventional method" involves hand tools, for this includes a mix of hand and power tools, and routers used with and without guides, and those cuts done in the RT and those done free hand. 

For example, when I was one cutting on square router plate inset in my 100#+ (50 kg+) RT, I used 1-1/2" (38mm) guiedes, using a plunge router free hand. 

For the second (round) router plate insert, I did it with a plunge router free hand, using a trammel provided by the plate manufacturer. 

When I cut 1/4" (6mm) dados 12" (300mm) long that were 5/8" (16mm) on center, I used my RT and fence. 

The "best" method for me is the one that will (c) safely give me the best result for the least effort, in a safe manner.

Using guides have at least 3 advantages:

* Once made, the routing is very predictable and precise. At least for me, being new with the router, I am prone to making firewood when trying to do precise work freehand. Other individuals may or may not realize this advantage in their work.
* When multiple identical parts are required, especially if they are relatively complex (such as the legs on the stand you presented) or on chair back/legs, trying to make a set of matched pieces would be virtually impossible for me without using a template.
* Using multiple templates (or a single template which can be moved / rotated in a registered manner) permits routing highly precise and/or complex cuts (such as those created with the bowl and tray kit Eagle America advertised and the inlay you carved in this post).

The disadvantage is they take time that is not directly associated with making the end product. 

Personally, I'd like for you to succeed in teaching your technique of routing here in the forum, just as I would like for others to succeed in teaching their techniques. As with any new thing in life, some people are going to embrace it, some are going to reject it, and some are going to be open to learning more about it, deferring their decision for now. I want to learn about it so I can decide whether or not it is the right tool for each job that comes up in the future. That decision is made on a cut-by-cut basis.

Some people believe that 90% of all cuts should be done in a router table and some people believe 90% of all cuts should not use a router table, but most people are some where in between because it is best for *them*. 

When a presenter presents their method (RT, template or other) they must understand that not everyone is going to decide that is the best way to make that cut. The best they can hope for is that they will influence others decision-making process to get them to try it and (the presenter hopes) decide it is best for them also.

This is a good thing because if us guys all saw things the same way, we'd all want to marry the same gal and all you guys would be out of luck, cuz I already married the best there is!!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> HI Harry
> 
> Been 3 or 4 that I can recall but they have been pulled off the forum  by Tom..
> 
> ...


As I recall it Bj, Tom presented a drawing and asked members to produce the pattern their own way, I further recall that you were the only one to produce a reasonable facsimile using your existing skills. This is what I have been complaining about, he hasn't presented complete projects in one hit.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

Many have gotten the way of doing it by viewing your post.

You are a big asset to the fourm and many can learn from you  like I have...that should get me one or two brownie points..:dance3::dance3::dance3:

=========







harrysin said:


> As I recall it Bj, Tom presented a drawing and asked members to produce the pattern their own way, I further recall that you were the only one to produce a reasonable facsimile using your existing skills. This is what I have been complaining about, he hasn't presented complete projects in one hit.


----------



## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

harrysin said:


> As I recall it Bj, Tom presented a drawing and asked members to produce the pattern their own way, I further recall that you were the only one to produce a reasonable facsimile using your existing skills. This is what I have been complaining about, he hasn't presented complete projects in one hit.


Harry
If you are referring to the construction of the elliptical trinket boxes I was trying to present when my Photo shoot was 'High Jacked' before I had the opportunity to complete the project, there were ample details leading up to the various stages I had used, it was never a *competition* to complete it an alternative way. I had no objection as to what method they produced the elliptical shape, but it had to be accurate if they were to produce a reasonable box that could be used in a presentation. Members never had the opportunity to see the final project. I withdrew my presentation as there was no interest shown on what I had been prepared to submit as everyone followed the simple alternative method. 

That method, yes, produced a box and if I recall *it was only a box* not my words. The procedure was lost to all, not just for producing the elliptical boxes but many other projects that could have been be achieved. (A typical set of projects were posted lately on the forum. Christmas trays as an example but there are many more) 

On a number of occasions when a certain member was explaining how to complete a project, stopped short of giving the complete solution to the problem by adding *"I do not like to take off the Bikini" * in other words he was wanting others to use the information presented and think out the problem by themselves. No different to what I was asking members to do.

Tom


----------



## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Unless someone has something beneficial and on topic to routing to add, this thread is headed to the graveyard on a fast track. 

Members come here to learn and share and I am trying to find something in the later part of this tread that fits that bill :nono:


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I surrender, I'll just sit back and watch for a while and hopefully learn something.


----------

