# Rockler vs Grizzly



## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Hi all,

I want to first introduce myself, and say thank you to all those who contribute to this forum. I am a woodworker for about five years now, but have been mainly doing woodturning instead of more traditional woodworking. However, I have grown tired of making pens and bowls, and want to expand. I received a Bosch 1617EVSPK Router Combo for Christmas, and I am hoping to use that router both in a table (which is the reason for my post), as well as some freehand sign making (as well as with a signmaking kit that Rockler sells). I hope that I am putting this post in the right place, and I hope I am not causing too much trouble on my maiden voyage. I searched the forums and got a lot of great advice, but I guess I am still not sure as to what I should do in my particular case. 

My birthday is in January, and my family wants to buy me a router table (since they got me the Bosch router for Christmas). They gave me the option between the Rockler MDF/HPL router table that retails for $250, or the Grizzly T10432 table, and said that cost should not be a deciding factor. I have followed many of Mike and James's thread posts (THANK YOU GUYS), and several other fine members who have commented on the Grizzly (thanks as well!). I am tempted to pull the trigger and say that I want the Grizzly, but I have never seen a comparison on the forum between the two (would people consider these to be exact competitors?) Simply put, I am wondering if someone can identify a clear winner between the two. 

I have never seen the Grizzly/MLCS router table in person, but I like that the table is thicker, and has the metal t-slots for the fence instead of riding in the MDF (Rockler). However, I also like the convenience of having a predrilled aluminum plate (since I am a chicken, and am afraid of drilling into the phenolic plate), and I have physically seen the Rockler table, and know that it has been on the market for many years as a respected table setup. I want a solid table with a straight fence and a good plate that I can easily remove the router from when I decide to do signmaking, but I don't want to fuss around too much when putting the router back into the table. I plan on doing some jointing of boards (I know this can be done on both and is a pretty minor issue, but ease of adjusting the split fences is something that I might consider). Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Happy Routing in 2014 to all!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Justin, for years I have been telling forum members: "If I was going to buy a router table it would be the Grizzly T10432."


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I'd have the same concerns for me drilling a plate, but at around $13.00 for an additional Grizzly plate--not a huge expense to add a few extras to the order (click on "Parts" when you're looking at the table on the Grizzly site). At the $100 difference, a small assortment of bits could get a lot accomplished. I've found the purple Grizzly bits to be pretty decent for the money, but the few green bits i've bought from them have not been my favorites. 

Congrats on the 1617--i've got a pair of them and it's a great router.

earl


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

a man who can turn pens has the skill set to drill a plate. buy the extra plate. My experience is if I buy the back-up I never need it


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## wbrisett (Feb 12, 2011)

I don't know what table saw you own, but here's another thought. Can you use a wing off your table saw? I recently moved to a setup like this. I wasn't sure I would like it, but I really do. The only downside for me is I keep having to route, move stuff off the fence for saw cuts, then put stuff back on when I need to route things. But even with this downside, I enjoy it more than having I thought I would in my small shop.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hi Justin it's great to meet you and have you as a member of our community, welcome!


Here is guide to the forum
http://www.routerforums.com/attachm...1339167129-how-post-forums-posting-basics.pdf


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks all for the replies! I truly appreciate it! I don't know why I am afraid of drilling the plate, and I know there are several posts on how to do it, but I like thought of having the predrilled plate since it would be one less thing to screw up. I definitely want a stand alone table since my table saw is a portable table saw, and I don't want to always have to pull out the saw for every time I need my router table. I also can get 20 percent off the rockler table, knocking the price down to 200, but from what it sounds like from Mike and others is that even with the gain of the aluminum plate, I would still be more satisfied with the Grizzly table. It seems almost too good to be true, and that is where I am cautious. With other tables, it seems that accessories are easily found (router lifts, featherboards, stops, etc), but as many know, router table manufacturers like to make the dimensions different from others so they can hold you hostage to their line of tools. Oh well, decisions decisions! Thanks again and happy Wednesday!


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Whenever possible, I'm a fan of metal over plastic or phenolic.

My first table was a Freud with a phenolic plate. I loved the fence and still use it. It's much quicker to set up that those requiring shims.

As to phenolic plate, I killed it almost immediately because the screws to lock it down put pressure on the corners and over tightening snaps a corner. Later, I killed a second one. For that reason, I made the plunge to a Bench Dog, which was much more expensive but built like a tank.

Other options are out there too and get great reviews. Many times, you can get a feel for something by reading Amazon reviews. In conjunction with information here, you should be able to make a good choice. In the end, and as with most tools, get as much plate as you can afford.


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## rpludwig (Nov 22, 2011)

Mike said:


> Justin, for years I have been telling forum members: "If I was going to buy a router table it would be the Grizzly T10432."


+1 on Mike's advice...have had one for 2 years now, no issues, and no problem drilling the phenolic base...

Ron


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Justin. It may be hard to find a member that has both tables and can give a comparison. Most members, if happy with what they have will recommend their table.

I mainly use the Oak Park Table and have a Grizzly clone as a second table. I have had two of them and found them to have all the features I need.


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## cjtboy (Dec 21, 2013)

Hi Justin-

I was in similar shoes like 2 weeks ago... new router, looking for a new table. Based on reviews from this forum and elsewhere, I went with the Grizzly (low price also factored into this, plus it was on sale).

I only got it last week, but unfortunately there were some issues in shipping (damage to the table top), and a bit of rust on the legs. Either way, they are sending a replacement out to me and sending someone to pick up the damaged one.

I did put the one I got together to get a sense of how I liked it/how it worked, and all seemed good - fence 90 degrees to table, base seemed very sturdy, etc. I did notice a few small QC type details that were lacking (a cut on the laminate edging to fit miter track was sloppy and crooked, the aforementioned rust on the legs) - but nothing that would dramatically impact performance.

Drilling out the insert plate... yeah, I was scared of this too. I bought the Rousseau centering kit, which made it easier for sure. That said, I mucked it up a bit, as the drill press I was using had some serious wobble, so near impossible to get the holes lined up correctly. Router is now sitting slightly off center, but I am not using guide bushings (yet) so am not stressing too much about this.

Hope this helps, enjoy your new router and table


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks all for the kind messages, you are helping out quite a bit. Kelly, I hear you about damaging the phenolic insert. I can see myself doing the same exact thing that happened to your first insert (thankfully the inserts are only 13 dollars, but still I don't want to go through the hassle of damaging and repairing an insert when it either gets dropped/heat stress/overtightened. Ron, thanks for giving a vote for one of them, a majority opinion really helps in the decision making. James, thank you for your input, and I figured that people wouldn't have both, but I guess I just don't want to go through this regretting that I didn't get the other table (whichever one I end up getting), because I hear great reviews from Mike, James, Ron, and others about the Grizzly, but then I hear reviews that I think rightfully so give me some worry from Chris (thanks Chris for sharing your experience, and know that I feel your pain), where it seems like people are receiving poorly manufactured or shipped (I don't know where exactly the problem lies) tables and therefore they have to keep sending it back until they finally get one that works. I know Grizzly does a good job of standing behind their products, but it does concern me that you would let a subpar table, such as the initial one Chris received, to be delivered to a customer. Chris, since you are dealing with a bit of a QC error currently, do you regret going with the Grizzly instead of another table? Thanks again guys for your help!


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## cjtboy (Dec 21, 2013)

TheStimulusPlan said:


> Chris, since you are dealing with a bit of a QC error currently, do you regret going with the Grizzly instead of another table?


no regrets (YET!) - holding judgement until the replacement unit arrives. UPS just picked up the damaged one today, so hopefully I'll see the new one early next week.

I figure the worst thing that can happen is I have issues with the second and send it back for a refund so I can get something else. Hoping I don't have to, for sure, but all that is lost if this happens is some time w/o a router table, and will cause a little headache.

I really wanted the RT1000XL table talked about on this forum, but the shipping out to me in CA killed the deal for me, at least for the time being. Worth checking out if you haven't already.


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Thanks Chris, I think I will go ahead and give the Grizzly a shot. Thanks to all members who gave their advice. I will give a write up on how my shipment/table setup goes so that I hopefully can help the next person in my (and Chris's) shoes. If the table comes damaged twice, I will probably do the same thing and send it back for a refund, and then go with the Rockler, but we shall see what happens. Thanks again!


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## cjtboy (Dec 21, 2013)

well, got my replacement table today, which was not damaged in shipping... unfortunately it had a few other issues - fence not square to table (a few obvious nicks that looks like it was dropped on the floor a few times), table not flat (close, but not flat), and same rust spots on frame pieces as last time. 

Ah well, they're giving me a refund and I am going to shop around again. Bummer is I will probably have to spend more than I did for this one.

Hopefully you have better luck with the Grizzly than I - it does look like a nice table overall, just didn't work out for me.


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Dang Chris, I am sorry to hear that. I have my table ordered, and it should be coming here today. At least I know the shipping was fast (it was ordered on MLK, and should be at the door this afternoon depending on how UPS deals with the snow here in Maryland). I plan on giving a full write up, and will definitely keep your situation in mind so hopefully we can figure out exactly what is going on with some people enjoying the table, while others are receiving tables like yours with some definite QC issues. At least Grizzly is remaining pretty good at customer service from the sounds of it. Chris, do you know what you are going to go with at this point?


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Well, I got the router table today, and I will say that I am disappointed. The same issues that Chris was having with the tables that were sent to him, are very similar issues to the table that was sent to me. The table has a bit of a drop-off on the outfeed side of the table. Is it enough to fret over, maybe/maybe-not. Secondly, the laminate on the table is chipping from where the table looks like it was dropped on a corner of something, and the stress of the hit has chipped away a bit of the laminate on the top, as well as the banding around the edge. That irked me a bit. The fence is close, but not quite perpendicular to the table, but I will give some credit that at least the fence seemed straight all the way across. However, the straw that broke the camel's back was having the dust collector piece completely broken. While some of these issues may be minimal, I have talked it over with my family, and we decided that we don't want to spend hard earned money on something that should be brand new, but shows a lack of care straight out of the box. The box looked fine when it came in, which leads me to think that it is not a shipping issue, but instead a storage issue or handling issue in-house. I feel like I received a used router table. I am planning on returning the table and going with Rockler. Will Rockler necessarily have the same problems? I don't know, but I should not have to accept a tool with any damage if it was listed as brand new, and given Chris's problems with two tables from Grizzly, I will be going elsewhere for a router table. Will let others know how everything goes. Thanks again to all for the advice.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Sorry to hear that you guys in US are having issues with the Grizzly table.

I believe they are a mass produced clone from China?

Grizzly.com

Catalogue - Routing - Router Tables & Accessories

I have bought two of them over the years from the Australian importer. Despite have to freight across Australia (Perth to Sydney) they had no issues when delivered.


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## cjtboy (Dec 21, 2013)

TheStimulusPlan said:


> Dang Chris, I am sorry to hear that. I have my table ordered, and it should be coming here today. At least I know the shipping was fast (it was ordered on MLK, and should be at the door this afternoon depending on how UPS deals with the snow here in Maryland). I plan on giving a full write up, and will definitely keep your situation in mind so hopefully we can figure out exactly what is going on with some people enjoying the table, while others are receiving tables like yours with some definite QC issues. At least Grizzly is remaining pretty good at customer service from the sounds of it. Chris, do you know what you are going to go with at this point?


Thanks - too bad you had similar issues! I am not yet sure what I am going to get instead. May just save up for a bit and look at a nicer table top...


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## TheStimulusPlan (Jan 15, 2014)

Hey all, I wanted to give an update on my router table decision. I returned the Grizzly table and went with the Rockler HPL table package. Normally the package is 250 dollars, but I have been receiving plenty of 20% off one item coupons, so it brought the package down to 200 and shipping was only 17 dollars, bringing me to a total of 217. Well, I have received all of the pieces (the router plate comes drilled specifically for what router you have, and apparently the group A package is popular), and figured I would let the forum know how things have gone.

First, let me get the negatives out of the way, the table is not as thick or heavy as the Grizzly (the Grizzly is 1/4 of an inch thicker). I don't know if this will make a huge difference since I am in the process of building my own router stand and it will have plenty of support underneath to prevent sagging, but it is thinner and obviously lighter. Secondly, this table set does not include legs. That is not such a big deal for me since I plan on building my table, and if I really wanted to use it immediately, I could make a simple stand out of some 2x4's which would be a cost effective way to get the table on something quickly. Third, the slots in the back that the fence adjustments are made on are not metal like the Grizzly, but instead go into the MDF. I can just see that if someone were to really wrench down on their locking knobs when securing the fence in place, how this might create divots in the MDF bottom over a long term as it pulls the pin upward to secure the fence. 

Despite the thinner table, lack of legs, and the lack of a metal slide adjustment behind the fence, I am really happy with my choice. First off, the tabletop, fence, and router plate all came separately with so much padding that I am sure you could have tossed it out of a plane and nothing would have been damaged. Additionally, you can buy the parts separately (disclaimer: go at your own risk trying to put Rockler items on other table setups as I do not know and doubt this would work), which I like just in case over time I need to replace something, it will be cheaper to replace the broken part than the entire table. The fence and the plate had padding inside their own box, and then Rockler padded them even more in the shipping boxes. The table is ultra flat, no damage at all to the top or the sides. The fence was perfectly square to the table and was easy to adjust. As I stated above, the plate is 1/4" thick aluminum, and is pre-drilled (just make sure you know your router make and model prior to ordering). Having the plate pre-drilled was a relief for me, and it prevented me from needing to buy additional plates in case I screwed up, or buying the Rousseau centering kit (like Chris and others have done) to ensure I did it right the first time. I can see where if I had multiple routers the phenolic Grizzly plates would make some economic sense. I am sure it becomes clockwork for guys like James and Mike who are router experts, but for the mere mortal like myself, I think the initial cost of the aluminum and the cost of the phenolic+centering kit+additional plate if I screwed up pretty much balances itself out. 

I also bought the shims to do some edge jointing, and while I have not used them yet, I like that they were an available accessory despite how easy it would be to use washers or something else to offset the table fences. For me personally, I am building my router with enough space underneath to accommodate a dust bucket to control some of the dust. I have a dust collector, and I think a majority of the dust will go on the top, but I am building my router table out of 3/4 maple with a 2x4 frame, and I don't plan on it going anywhere anytime soon, so I want to build my best router table and plan for future upgrades while in the initial design so that I don't have to say down the road "man I wish I had done..."

Anyways, sorry if this was long winded, but that was my personal experience. I am supporting others in getting the Rockler, but I know others on the forum have had positive experiences with Grizzly, so I can't downplay that. All I can do is give my experience and hope it helps someone in the future. Have a great day.


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## shooting4life (Jan 29, 2014)

TheStimulusPlan said:


> Hey all, I wanted to give an update on my router table decision. I returned the Grizzly table and went with the Rockler HPL table package. Normally the package is 250 dollars, but I have been receiving plenty of 20% off one item coupons, so it brought the package down to 200 and shipping was only 17 dollars, bringing me to a total of 217. Well, I have received all of the pieces (the router plate comes drilled specifically for what router you have, and apparently the group A package is popular), and figured I would let the forum know how things have gone.
> 
> First, let me get the negatives out of the way, the table is not as thick or heavy as the Grizzly (the Grizzly is 1/4 of an inch thicker). I don't know if this will make a huge difference since I am in the process of building my own router stand and it will have plenty of support underneath to prevent sagging, but it is thinner and obviously lighter. Secondly, this table set does not include legs. That is not such a big deal for me since I plan on building my table, and if I really wanted to use it immediately, I could make a simple stand out of some 2x4's which would be a cost effective way to get the table on something quickly. Third, the slots in the back that the fence adjustments are made on are not metal like the Grizzly, but instead go into the MDF. I can just see that if someone were to really wrench down on their locking knobs when securing the fence in place, how this might create divots in the MDF bottom over a long term as it pulls the pin upward to secure the fence.
> 
> ...


That is good to hear, I just ordered my first router table from rockler (phenolic top with fence and plate) and I hope it works out as well as yours has so far.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I am very surprised to hear that two members got sub par tables from Grizzly. Just so we are clear I own one of the Grizzly tables and it arrived/has been trouble free.


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