# Everything was....



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

....just fine until the router motor fell out of the base. That's right folks, I was cutting box joints with a 3/8 inch spiral bit set at 3/8 inch deep and all of a sudden I heard a loud noise and the door to my router cabinet flew open. Luckily the motor has an automatic shut off or there may have been a serious amount of damage. I reinstalled it into the base and discovered the router bit is too short to allow a 3/8 inch depth cut if bit is installed in the collet properly. In fact all of my spiral bits appear to be to short to use in my router table if set at proper depth in the collet and set to cut under 3/4 inch depth in the board for finger joints to be on the safe side.

Now my question is, has this happened to anyone reading this post? 

I have spent a couple of hours looking at various brands of spiral bits and it seems they all tend to be overall short and really not suitable for use in a router table for shallow cuts. I am using a Porter Cable 892 router without the base plate attached to an aluminum Woodpeckers table insert.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, adding a Musclechuck is much cheaper than buying longer bits. Your router takes a type 1 Musclechuck which is about 1/2" higher than the factory collet. Find the link on the forums to get 5% off your order. I am sure you have seen the reviews and how much people like them.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ken Bee said:


> ....just fine until the router motor fell out of the base. That's right folks, I was cutting box joints with a 3/8 inch spiral bit set at 3/8 inch deep and all of a sudden I heard a loud noise and the door to my router cabinet flew open. Luckily the motor has an automatic shut off or there may have been a serious amount of damage. I reinstalled it into the base and discovered the router bit is too short to allow a 3/8 inch depth cut if bit is installed in the collet properly. In fact all of my spiral bits appear to be to short to use in my router table if set at proper depth in the collet and set to cut under 3/4 inch depth in the board for finger joints to be on the safe side.
> 
> Now my question is, has this happened to anyone reading this post?
> 
> I have spent a couple of hours looking at various brands of spiral bits and it seems they all tend to be overall short and really not suitable for use in a router table for shallow cuts. I am using a Porter Cable 892 router without the base plate attached to an aluminum Woodpeckers table insert.


set the motor so that the collet is to the insert...
use this bit... 1¼'' depth of cut...
Freud Tools | 3/8" (Dia.) Up Spiral Bit


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Ken,
How is your router mounted to/under the table, to the underside of the table, to an RT base plate or to a lift?


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Ken...I hate to sound weird on this but in reading your post it all made sense until I came to the part where you said the bits are too short. Do you mean too long...? If they were short, the motor would be raised up into the table...if they were long, the motor would have to be adjusted low which could make it run out of holding room...

It would seem in order to cut under 3/4" the bit would have to be shorter in order for the motor to be held within the base...a longer bit would make the motor drop even further...

Did I misunderstand the symptom...?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Nickp said:


> Ken...I hate to sound weird on this but in reading your post it all made sense until I came to the part where you said the bits are too short. Do you mean too long...? If they were short, the motor would be raised up into the table...if they were long, the motor would have to be adjusted low which could make it run out of holding room...
> 
> It would seem in order to cut under 3/4" the bit would have to be shorter in order for the motor to be held within the base...a longer bit would make the motor drop even further...
> 
> Did I misunderstand the symptom...?


That was what confused me too. 

Herb


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

A Bosch router won't fall out of the base because of the safety feature. You have to unlock the clamp and rotaate the motor in order for it to slide out of the base.

I am confused also. What brand of router do you have? Was it locked in the base via clamp?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

herb stoops said:


> that was what confused me too.
> 
> Herb


x3


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Mike said:


> Ken, adding a Musclechuck is much cheaper than buying longer bits. Your router takes a type 1 Musclechuck which is about 1/2" higher than the factory collet. Find the link on the forums to get 5% off your order. I am sure you have seen the reviews and how much people like them.


Thanks for the info Mike and I will not hesitate getting one. I do have one question though. Is it worthwhile buying the 1/4 inch adaptor also? I do have and use 1/4 inch bits on occasion in my table. 

I do have a set of extenders from MCLS if I am not mistaken so I wonder if they would suffice in a pinch? I hadn't even considered them until you brought up the Musclechuck.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I just recently got to use my Musclechuck, after having it for a while (no time or projects requiring router) and it is awesome!!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Hmmm, there seems to be some confusion here - if your bits are "too short" you need to move the motor higher (closer to the base, not lower) and thus have more of it in the base. If I understand correctly, you are using the fixed base with the PC 892 motor and the motor fell out of the base. No offense, but this is just shy of being a torture configuration of a router table. But, it is what it is.

One thing about the PC clamping mechanism is that the stock bolt is really hard to tighten. Just a guess but I bet reaching down under, adjusting bit depth and then getting it really tight is a real contortion. I tossed that and got a cam clamp. Rockler carries 1/4" ones for $10 (for a pair of them). Others use bicycle seat camp clamps. This is the way to go to get the motor super tight without breaking your fingers. See this thread for more info.

You can get a plunge base for that motor - that might be a better match for a router table. Though, it appears to be reasonably pricey ($120ish).

On the musclechuck, I don't see how this is going to help your problem as it will force you to move your motor lower, not higher. I assume that you insert the bit as far as possible and then back it out about 1/16".


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

I too am confused with what a short bit has to do with a router motor falling out of its base. Even at its lowest height setting a good router motor should clamp solid into its base I have never had this happen and I use an extensive variety of bits, both short and long. I use a Bosch 1617 in one router table and a PC 7815 in my other table.
both now have Muscle chucks, and if anything, the router has to be lowered about 1/2" lower to accommodate the Musclechuck.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, buying the reducer sleeve is important if you will be using 1/4" shank bits. The sleeves sold with the Musclechuck are high precision and made to work with the closer tolerances it has. Other brands of reducer sleeves or bushings do not meet these standards and may let bits slip. Combo kit #1 is the best deal. Here is the discount link: http://www.musclechuck.com/routerforum/

This video by Roland Johnson of FWW will answer these and other questions: Quick Change Collets Make Routing Easier - Fine Woodworking Video

Note: This was an unsolicited video so the Musclechuck name is not used because of FWW's advertising policy. Roland uses Musclechucks on three of his routers and in the classes he gives at woodworking shows.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I have not tried using the spiral bits in a table but I do agree with you that the length of most of the spiral bits are not long enough. I found some longer bits in Whitesides' catalog. Their bits go from 2" up to 6" in length. Google the company website and not the resellers.
That chuck Mike mentioned sounds like a good option too.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

It really is Gary. A member asked about the Musclechuck so I checked out the product. I was so pleased with the results that I contacted John DeRosa the designer/owner/builder of the Musclechucks and talked him into making them available for most of the routers members use. I even loaned John two of my routers (a Triton and a Makita) so he wouldn't have to buy them. (John buys the routers and makes his own measurements, he checks the fit through every step of production to ensure everything is exactly right)


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

GregLittleWoodworks said:


> I too am confused with what a short bit has to do with a router motor falling out of its base. Even at its lowest height setting a good router motor should clamp solid into its base I have never had this happen and I use an extensive variety of bits, both short and long. I use a Bosch 1617 in one router table and a PC 7815 in my other table.
> both now have Muscle chucks, and if anything, the router has to be lowered about 1/2" lower to accommodate the Musclechuck.




I am REEEEEEEAly,confused now, to me this is about clamping the motor without it falling out of the base. The cam lock conversion is a good idea, I did that on my PC 690 motor in s previous router table. 

Longer bits or extensions,or muscle chucks, will only compound the problem as they will extend the chuck and lower the router in the base, making it harder to clamp. Hmmmmmmm ............

Herb


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

To those of you not familiar with the Porter Cable 892 it has a row of teeth geared in conjunction with an adjustment screw that determines the height setting. When it reaches the top of the row it disengages and lets the router body slip out of the base. Actually it is difficult to fully explain how that works but nevertheless a short bit will cause the motor to disengage and slip down past the row of teeth if raised to far when in a router table. Thus the need for a longer bit or something such as what Mike suggested like the Musclechuck to keep the motor from traveling to far in the upward travel. It does have a lock that works really well but the lock alone will not hold the motor if the adjustment screw is not engaged. Luckily it has an auto shut off when the motor slides out of the base to prevent serious damage.

It fell out twice before I woke up and realized what was causing the problem. I have been using the table and router for nearly 3 years and this had never happened with standard router bits or spiral for that matter because this was the first time I had a reason to set the bit so low. I have a Porter Cable 2016 Dovetail Jig that cuts box Joints and it isn't that difficult to set up so I may go back to that way of routing box joints, but still purchase the Musclechuck to ease my mind. I have a Ridgid trim router that is set up to cut box joints with the Porter Cable dovetail jig and that is all it has ever been used for. The Woodhaven box joint jig had been sitting around collecting dust until I finally decided to try it out with the described result.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

A couple yrs ago I remember seeing a few posts on the web about 892 routers having clamp issues. 
I asked my question because it didn't make any sense to me that the bit couldn't rise enough above the table surface to complete the depth of cut.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Ken Bee said:


> To those of you not familiar with the Porter Cable 892 it has a row of teeth geared in conjunction with an adjustment screw that determines the height setting.
> 
> It fell out twice before I woke up and realized what was causing the .


Does that mean that if you are freehand routing that if you lower the cut too far the motor falls out of the base?

Herb


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

OK, it is time to go back to basics. Two problems are being discussed here; the bits being too short or being too long.

If the bits are too short they need some method of increasing their reach like a Musclechuck or other extension.

If the bits are too long and can not be set low enough to make shallow cuts you need an auxiliary table top on top of your router table. This can be the case with some routers using the Musclechuck. Here is my way of fixing this situation:

Cut a piece of 1/2" or thicker MDF or BB plywood 3" longer and 3" wider than your table top. Round over the top edges and corners. Center this on your router table and clamp it in place on two diagonal corners. Attach two pieces of 1x2" in an "L" shape tightly against the other two diagonal corners on the bottom of your auxiliary top. This is to quickly locate your top to the table. With your router unplugged raise the bit so it marks it's location on the bottom of the auxiliary table top. Remove the clamps, flip the auxiliary top over and using a plunge router make a hole centered on the bit mark; it should be at least 1/8" larger than the bit you want to use. I suggest 1/4" larger so the dust can be easily evacuated from around the bit. No need to clamp the auxiliary top to the table since it's weight will hold it in place but you can drill/countersink holes for 1/4" flat head screws through the table and auxiliary top so they fit into the table edge. Two 1/4-20 knobs on the bottom and you know it isn't going any place.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

My solution would be to get a different router motor.

Herb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Ok, then...I'm no longer confused...

The motor will fall out of itself when raised too high...meaning above the adjustment threads.

Therefore, you are not clamping and locking the base after setting the height...and the motor falls out past the threads...

Does the same thing happen if you lock the base...?

Thanks for the explanation on the height adjustment...no longer confused...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> My solution would be to get a different router motor.
> 
> Herb


I'm doing a MTStringer,quoting myself.:laugh2:

The reason I say this is because every bit, every operation , every time the router table is used it is going to have to be taken into account that the router might fall out if you don't compensate for it. And check and recheck, and worry when you are halfway through a cut. 
To me this borders on a safety concern and should be eliminated. 
If the router can be used hand held safely, then get another router for the table. That is MHO.

Herb


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

Have you considered an upgrade to a new router or a router lift? If an old tool has a problem it might not be good to keep using it.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Of all the solutions given I like Mike's better. I have been using this router and router table in its present configuration for nearly 3 years and this is the first incident I have had. No doubt because it was the first time I had used a spiral bit with such a short setting. The intelligent solution would be to make the cuts a little deeper if I were to continue using a spiral bit.The 892 PC router is the ideal router for a table set up if used within its limitations, so no, I will not consider changing it out. That is like me suggesting to some of you to trade your car off if it has a flat tire. 

The router has been rewired to eliminate the soft start and use a remote speed controller so there is never a reason to go under the table other than to clean the sawdust after each use. The set up is not unlike many router lifts in the market today. At a fraction of the price I might add. I only paid $80.00 for the complete like new PC895 kit because the router had died. The plunge base had never been installed on the motor so I sold it for $100.00 once I decided to rewire the motor and install it in my router table.

As I said I have a PC 4216 dovetail jig so I will use it to cut my box joints rather than let it sit around collecting sawdust. Besides I need to learn how to cut dovetails and with the supplemental instruction book the jig is a powerhouse of different dovetail and box joint designs and applications.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Nickp said:


> Ok, then...I'm no longer confused...
> 
> The motor will fall out of itself when raised too high...meaning above the adjustment threads.
> 
> ...


Yes it was clamped but there again beyond the proper clamping capabilities to ensure a tight fit. The motor begins to round off once it is past the hight adjustment settings so the clamp essentially has nothing to grab on to.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Ken Bee said:


> Yes it was clamped but there again beyond the proper clamping capabilities to ensure a tight fit. The motor begins to round off once it is past the hight adjustment settings so the clamp essentially has nothing to grab on to.


Thanks, Ken...after reading your last post, it sounds like you have a win/win solution...good luck...


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