# Question About Chisels



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I need to buy a set of good chisels Right now I only have one and it is rather large about on inch across the blade or what ever you call the cutting edge. Here is my concern and my fear. Over the years I have never been able to sharpen a knife with a stone so I have learned to use a Lanski, hope I spelled that right, it has been the only way that I could get a knife sharp to my satisfaction. What I'm concerned with in regard to buying an expensive set of chisels is my ability to sharpen them. I know that they must be kept exptremely sharp. Is there a tool or some method to sharpen a chisel without using voodoo. I use this term as I used to watch my dad sharpen knifes with a stone and you could shave with them, when I try it, I just wear the blade out, never could get the hang of it like some folks so. I know that I must sound like a dunce, and I suppose that when it comes to this subject, I guess that I am. I realize that the trick is to keep the angle correst and constant, but knowing this does not mean that I can do it, wonder if anybody else has ever experience this problem.

Now, if I find that I can sharpen chisels the next thing will be to learn how to use them to, for example, square up the rounded ends of moritses, is this also an art that takes lots of practice and a little voodoo too? Looking forward to comments, gosh what would you do without my strange questions ummm....

After posting this I saw that I had spelled chisel wrong and then went back and edited the post or thread starter but could not edit the title so for the record I tried. Buy the way, I went to Rockler's web site and did see a chisel sharpening kit, are there any comments on it. I think that it. Can't recall the name but you will know what I mean if you are familiar with such a tool.

Jerry


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

*Water stones and a jig*

A while back I got the 8 piece set from Grizzly (*Link to review*, discontinued) with their sharpening kit (*Link*) (of that kit I now only use the Larson style honing guide). I then tried the Scary Sharp system. I've had good results but have found, as others have, that you run through a bunch of wet/dry sandpaper. I'm still there except I've graduated to the 200-600 diamond block from Harbor Freight for the rough shaping work and still have to go to the wet/dry paper on a large granite tile from Home Depot for the fine work. The honing guide is a must for me in order for ME to get a working edge. I'm working on going freehand but like you I'm finding it's a slow go to get there.

Try to push your budget a little on the chisels. The Grizzly set is good and I like it BUT the steel isn't as hard as it could be and they need sharpening touch ups when I work on harder woods. (the edges tend to curl some)

A little birdie told me Santa may be bringing me a 1000/6000 grit Water Stone for Christmas. That's the direction I'll be going for sharpening down the road.

GCG


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

GulfcoastGuy said:


> A while back I got the 8 piece set from Grizzly (*Link to review*, discontinued) with their sharpening kit (*Link*) (of that kit I now only use the Larson style honing guide). I then tried the Scary Sharp system. I've had good results but have found, as others have, that you run through a bunch of wet/dry sandpaper. I'm still there except I've graduated to the 200-600 diamond block from Harbor Freight for the rough shaping work and still have to go to the wet/dry paper on a large granite tile from Home Depot for the fine work. The honing guide is a must for me in order for ME to get a working edge. I'm working on going freehand but like you I'm finding it's a slow go to get there.
> 
> Try to push your budget a little on the chisels. The Grizzly set is good and I like it BUT the steel isn't as hard as it could be and they need sharpening touch ups when I work on harder woods. (the edges tend to curl some)
> 
> ...


Patrick,

Thanks for taking time to post to my thread. What is your primary use for your chisels?, Glad to hear that I'm not alpne on knowing how to sharpen by hand.

Jerry


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Patrick,
> 
> Thanks for taking time to post to my thread. What is your primary use for your chisels?, Glad to hear that I'm not alpne on knowing how to sharpen by hand.
> 
> Jerry


Just like you I'm faced with the need to do mortise and tenons. I'm using the drill press and Forsner bits for the mortise rough in and cleaning up with the chisels. The tenons I do on the table saw with a jig that rides on the fence.

I've gotten to the point chasing the burr where I can get the burr almost gone, then a few quick stropping passes on the legs of my jeans and I'm shaving my arm.

GCG


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jerry, I suggest you buy a cheap set of chisels from HF for $7? on sale to try different methods with. I have seen all the fancy methods available and to be honest I just sharpen mine on my belt sander. I do my turning chisels this way too. I am sure people are thinking "what a blockhead" but it works well for me.


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## Hawks_Feather (Jan 6, 2010)

While I don't use my chisels nearly as well as I should, I do enjoy sharpening. Unless you want to go to a "higher" level machine, a honing guide and a flat stone will work pretty well. The key is keeping the angle consistent and the guide will allow you to do that. Take a colored magic marker and cover the bevel you will be working. Then take a few _light_ passes and look at the bevel. If the marker is off in one area and not the entire bevel you need to adjust the honing guide till you get it taking off the marker and not just in one area. If possible keep moving the honing guide so that you don't wear a low place in the stone. After some length of time you will need to flatten the stone so that you can continue to get a square end.

If you are using diamond flats you won't need to worry about the need to resurface a stone.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Mike said:


> Jerry, I suggest you buy a cheap set of chisels from HF for $7? on sale to try different methods with. I have seen all the fancy methods available and to be honest I just sharpen mine on my belt sander. I do my turning chisels this way too. I am sure people are thinking "what a blockhead" but it works well for me.


A guy at my local Bass Pro would sharpen about any knife for a buck and he used a belt sander and a buffing wheel. Worked great.

And kinda like the beer commercial you're only a blockhead if it DOESN'T work.

GCG


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

GulfcoastGuy said:


> A guy at my local Bass Pro would sharpen about any knife for a buck and he used a belt sander and a buffing wheel. Worked great.
> 
> And kinda like the beer commercial you're only a blockhead if it DOESN'T work.
> 
> GCG



So far nobody that has posted to this thread had mentioned the issue of "Hollow Ground". My neighbor sharpened my one and only chisel and talked about that issue.?????

Jerry


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> So far nobody that has posted to this thread had mentioned the issue of "Hollow Ground". My neighbor sharpened my one and only chisel and talked about that issue.?????
> 
> Jerry


That involves a slow wheel. Too, fast and you'll anneal the hardened steel. You put a "Hollow" profile on the bevel that matches the radius of the wheel then sharpen as normal on a flat surface. Only the edge and the heel of the bevel would be in contact with the sharpening surface. Reduces the amount of metal you have to remove during fine sharpening. Otherwise the principles are the same. A lot of folks swear by it. If I had the gear I'd try it but I don't. Once the hollow profile is formed it shouldn't need to be repeated till you wear the edge down a bunch. Maybe your neighbor could do that for you and you'd be set for awhile.

GCG


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17398&site=ROCKLER

Check out the video to see how easy it can be

==


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## Smokindog (Jan 30, 2012)

Jerry: I have a set of Craftsman Chizzles with plastic handles with steel caps on them. They have served me well for years. I can sharpen anything with stones but was given a Worksharp and found it to be the best on planes and chizzles. It is easy to adjust to the angle you need. It is flat due to the glass plates and will not hollow grind but it is a no brainer when it comes to maintaining angles. For my gouges use a belt sander when I am turning, quicker. The Dog


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I get best results with the 'scary sharp' method and a Veritas KII honing jig.

Veritas® MKII Honing Guide : CARBA-TEC


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17398&site=ROCKLER
> 
> Check out the video to see how easy it can be
> 
> ==


1+ on the Worksharp.

I have purchased every manual jig available and stll can't sharpen anything. When I purchased the Worksharp I was able to sharpen all my chisels (about 16) in about a hour. I also purchased additional glass plates so I could go up to 8000 grit paper.

Al


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

No need to buy more of the glass disks..just make your own..the glass ones are not cheap..  plus if I drop them they don't break 

===


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Good video from Lie-Nielsen on sharpening chisels:
Chisel Sharpening

Bill


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Just went on line and looked at a Sorby quarter inch mortising chisel. Doew anybody have any comments on this tool and/or is such a tool superior to a regular chisel for cutting the corners of a mortise?

Jerry


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I found a felt tip marker to be a great tool when learning to sharpen. I hollow grind since I have Pop's old whetstone wheel. Set the tool rest at an angle that the chisel addresses the stone at the proper angle. Mark the chisel with felt marker. Grind a little look at the wear where the stone is hitting the chisel Adjust tool rest if neccesary. Same thing when honing It helped me get the voodoo going


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> I get best results with the 'scary sharp' method and a Veritas KII honing jig.
> 
> Veritas® MKII Honing Guide : CARBA-TEC


+1 on the Veritas jig - best one on the market
+1 on Scary Sharp - cheap and simple

Jerry

It doesn't really matter how you get a sharp edge, so long as you get one! Once you've found a system stick with it. I used to use Scary Sharp because it was cheap to set-up and simple to do. I started using the Veritas honing jig because it is the best on the market, but it also allows me to sharpen plane irons with a camber (curved edge), although that isn't necessary for chisels. Why not start out cheaply with a piece of float glass, a selection of silicon carbide paper from WalMart, some spray adhesive, a bit of WD-40 oil and a cheap honing jig (or probably under $50 all in)










Once you've mastered that the it's time to look at improving your approach 

Regards

Phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Just went on line and looked at a Sorby quarter inch mortising chisel. Doew anybody have any comments on this tool and/or is such a tool superior to a regular chisel for cutting the corners of a mortise?


Hi Jerry

Are you referring to a sash mortise chisel or a "bruzz" (corner chisel)? If you are referring to a sash mortise chisel or better yet a heavy bolstered chisel then they are far superior to any firmer, registered or bevel-edge chisel for chopping out mortises and will go deeper on each blos and tend to run truer and be deflected less by faults in the timber, such as knots, etc. Sash chisels as their name implies were designed to be used for cutting the relatively shallow mortises found in sash windows. BTW proper mortise chisels shouldn't be hollow ground and are always driven with a wooden joiner's mallet and never a hammer (which used to get the apprentice fined!)

PS Are you also aware that a mortise should be set-out with a mortise gauge?

Regards

Phil


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I got a 1000/6000 combo waterstone as a Christmas gift and have to say it's an improvement compared to the wet/dry sand paper. Not in terms of sharpness but I always seemed to end up slicing the paper at the higher grits when I failed to lift the edge on the push stroke. Not a problem with the stone.

Also ... I gotta start testing sharpness on wood. My left arm is developing a big bald spot.

GCG


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Phil P said:


> Hi Jerry
> 
> Are you referring to a sash mortise chisel or a "bruzz" (corner chisel)? If you are referring to a sash mortise chisel or better yet a heavy bolstered chisel then they are far superior to any firmer, registered or bevel-edge chisel for chopping out mortises and will go deeper on each blos and tend to run truer and be deflected less by faults in the timber, such as knots, etc. Sash chisels as their name implies were designed to be used for cutting the relatively shallow mortises found in sash windows. BTW proper mortise chisels shouldn't be hollow ground and are always driven with a wooden joiner's mallet and never a hammer (which used to get the apprentice fined!)
> 
> ...


Phil,
No, I have never heard of a mortise guage. Right now I am only interesting in learning how to make mortise and tenon joints. Later I'll deal with the sash mortisees for hinges etc. It does sound like from what you just said above that a mortiseing chisel is what I need to buy. Don't understand what a mortise gauge is or what it would do for me in the endeavor that I am referring to, but i'm all ears as to what you think that I may need to do what I am talking sbout. Waiting for your response, thanks agsin.

Jerry


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

*Mortise chisels (Warning: Image rich)*



Jerry Bowen said:


> Phil,
> No, I have never heard of a mortise guage. Right now I am only interesting in learning how to make mortise and tenon joints. Later I'll deal with the sash mortisees for hinges etc.


Hi Jerry

I don't think that you've got a handle on the terminology quite yet. The term "mortise" is generally used to refer to the hole in which a tenon will fit:










_Above: Foxed (wedged) through mortise and tenon joint of the type used to make weather-tight doors. The use of wedges to secure the joint means that the joint will hold even if the glue bond fails. In English nomenclature the term "foxed" refers to a the joint being wedged

Below: A stopped mortise with a loose tenon (or "feather") of the type which can be cut with a router. The loose tenon has the ends rounded, something easily done in long strip using a bullnose cutter and is subsequently sawn into shorter lengths_










There is reallly no such thing as a "sash mortise" _per se_. A _sash mortise chisel_, however, is actually a lighter weight mortise chisel:










smaller and lighter than a traditional heavy bolstered mortise chisel and sharpened with a single bevel of about 30 to 35 degrees (NO hollow grind which messes up the performance completely). As you can see it is of heavier construction than a conventional firmer (square edged, as opposed to bevel-edged) chisel but is nowhere near as heavy as a traditional heavy bolstered mortise chisel (or "pig sticker" as we nickname them):










and is used to produce the smaller mortises found in window sashes:










The smaller size and lower weight mean that over many hours use is be less tiring to use, however it is neither heavy enough nor long enough for extended use on deep mortises.

The _recesses_ used to house hinges are just that - hinge recesses or hinge rebates, NOT mortises, and can be easily cut with a light bevel edge or firmer chisel, or with a router and jig.

In order to accurately mark out a mortise for hand cutting you need to mark the joint position. Whist this can be done with a marking gauge:










it is faster and _much more accurate_ to use a mortise or combined mortise and marking gauge:










(note the double marking points to mark both sides of the mortse simultaneously) especially if multiples are being made (the norm for mortising). For routing, however, this is not normally done. 










_Above: Process for marking out a hand cut mortise_

If you need to square out the ends of a mortise which you have routed a mortise chisel driven my a wooden carpenter's mallet is indeed the way to go. I'd still advise marking out the mortise position in some way (pencil) before routing so that you can clearly see the position the chisel needs to be in. I'd also suggest leaving a "horn" (spare material) at the end of the piece and adding a clamp to the material to prevent splitting out of the timber as you chop out with the chisel










_Above: Chopping out a mortise by hand using a heavy mortise chisel and mallet. The mallet won't damage the end of the chisel which a metal-headed hammer will do. Note the use of a small jig cramp or thumb screw used to prevent the end of the timber splitting out whilst chiselling and the horn of waste material left to assist in doing the same. The horn is sawn off once the item has been assembled and the glue has set - or in the case of the upper sash frame of a vertical sliding sash window it is sometimes shaped to form a "joggle" (see above)._

Of course all of the above refer to traditional mortising techniques. How much you take from this to use in making depends on you, but at least the terminology is now outlined so that we can communicate in a common language

Regards

Phil


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Phil,
Thank you for all of your effort to be of help to me. I would like to reduce my understanding to the simplest terms as to what I want to do and what I think I know. First of all, in regsrd to cutting rebates of whatever for hinges and/or window sash is not what I am trying to learn about right now. To make the mortise and tenon joint all I understsnd is thst the mortise is like the female part of the joint and tenon would be likened to the male part. The tenon that I envision will be about .750" long and .250" wide and perhaps an inch tall. The mortise will be cut with a bit on the router tsble and some sort of chisel will be used to square up the corners of the mortise. The actusal chisel that is best for this is my concern right now as well as the sharpening method. So far, the scsry sharp method seems to be the way I want to go and this will require the purchase of the Vitas guide. (I know that I did not spell thst right but csn't close this post snd look it up right now, but you know what I mean). Once I have decited on what chisel to buy I will order it and the guide. The bit has arrived by the way. So this is all I know so far and what I am imagining in my mind.

Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry, the name you wee thinking of was Veritas, Lee Valley Tools' tool manufacturing division. Good choice by going with their honing guide. All the reviews say that there isn't a better one. Lee Valley also sells a selection of chisels. Looking at what they have to offer may help your decision making easier. They sell Narex mortice chisels as a budget brand that they claim are excellent value, and they also sell Hirsch and Sorby if your wallet is thicker. 
Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement
Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement
Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement

Jerry, if you don't have a Lee Valey catalog I would ask them for one. A lot can be learned by looking at what they have available and from the tool descriptions.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Well, Jerry, I started out with an Eclipse guide years ago (similar to the blue jobbie I put in an earlier post) and is was OK (heck, it was CHEAP, too!). That jig is long gone and these days I have a Veritas mkII honing jig, although I admit that I don't always use it because practice/impatience means I "touch-up" by "rack of eye" quite a bit. If you are just starting out, though, it is really terrific tool to own.

The question of which chisel is best is relatively easy. You could square-out the ends of your mortise with an ordinary bevel edge chisel, however, I'd suggest that a sash mortise chisel (e.g. Sorby, Iles, etc) or the modern version of a heavy mortise chisel (such as these by Narex) would do a far better job, but avoid the so-called registered mortise chisels which are meant to be driven with a steel hanmmer for rough work. The downside to a sash mortise chisel is that it is a bit of a one trick pony - it can cut mortises or square out the ends of machine-made mortises, but it won't do service as a general chisel. The choice is yours, but remember that unlike a bevel edge chisel a mortise chisel requires a single bevel, not a double one, and certainly not a hollow grind



Jerry Bowen said:


> To make the mortise and tenon joint all I understsnd is thst the mortise is like the female part of the joint and tenon would be likened to the male part. The tenon that I envision will be about .750" long and .250" wide and perhaps an inch tall. The mortise will be cut with a bit on the router tsble and some sort of chisel will be used to square up the corners of the mortise.


On the subject of router tables and mortises, i personally don't think that a router table is a good (nor a particularly safe) way to cut a mortise with a router. Mortises are one joint where the plunge router is really king! For a plunge router an arrangemkent like long fence rods and a double fence or a guide vbush and template are much safer, more accurate and easier to use that any router table. Take a look at this article from the Trend website to see what I mean

Regards

Phil


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Jerry,

You don't HAVE to square off the ends of the mortise, you can just round off the ends of the tenons with a file and some sandpaper. 

Just tossing this out there...

Bill


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Phil P said:


> Well, Jerry, I started out with an Eclipse guide years ago (similar to the blue jobbie I put in an earlier post) and is was OK (heck, it was CHEAP, too!). That jig is long gone and these days I have a Veritas mkII honing jig, although I admit that I don't always use it because practice/impatience means I "touch-up" by "rack of eye" quite a bit. If you are just starting out, though, it is really terrific tool to own.
> 
> The question of which chisel is best is relatively easy. You could square-out the ends of your mortise with an ordinary bevel edge chisel, however, I'd suggest that a sash mortise chisel (e.g. Sorby, Iles, etc) or the modern version of a heavy mortise chisel (such as these by Narex) would do a far better job, but avoid the so-called registered mortise chisels which are meant to be driven with a steel hanmmer for rough work. The downside to a sash mortise chisel is that it is a bit of a one trick pony - it can cut mortises or square out the ends of machine-made mortises, but it won't do service as a general chisel. The choice is yours, but remember that unlike a bevel edge chisel a mortise chisel requires a single bevel, not a double one, and certainly not a hollow grind
> 
> ...



Phil, 
Here's the rub for me as far as not using the router table. I only have one router and it is set up in the router table and it requres a lot of fussing to get it out get it set up for what you are describing. Also, I have never used a router other than with it in the table, don't have all the accessories required to use it as you describle. For this reason I am going to at least attempt to cut the mortises as well as the tenons on the router table. I may end up using tghe BS to cut the tenons, but I think that I can cut them on the router tablle. I have had good luck cutting key slots for picture frames on the router table, don't yet understand why I can't cut the mortises, but haven't tried it yet. It's been to cold this month to work in the shop but will give it a go when it warms up in a few days and will let you know how it goes. 

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Well, been following this with interest. Been sharpening my tools since I was a kid.

Although they are sharp, I did notice that 2 of my old chisels (had 35+ years) now have a slight angle to them, where I continued to sharpen them sharp each day, but didn't want to take the extra time to get the edge back perpendicular to the tool... I'd never owned nor used a sharpening guide or jig before. It was all by eye.

I bit the hint that maybe my eyes could use some help from time to time. Rockler has a 50% off today on a honing/sharpening guide. I just ordered one. Maybe that might help me with that.

Besides, I've had my eye on an old hand plane at a pawn shop here... with an iron that has a few chips in the edge (a bargain-ing chip per say)... LOL

Edit-- I use granite and marble. It was free. If you visit a stoneworks supply house, you will usually find a bin outside with "free" off cuts. Trimmings from the sides, sink cuts, etc. I visit my local supply every once in a while just for that. My pieces saved for sharpening, my garden walkway, etc.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

billg71 said:


> Jerry,
> 
> You don't HAVE to square off the ends of the mortise, you can just round off the ends of the tenons with a file and some sandpaper.
> 
> ...


Bill, just thinking about what you are saying. Makes me wonder if doing as you suggest mlght cause each of the eight tenons for a table to not all end up being exactly the same with the consequence being that the boards with the tenons on them may not all be level when assembled, just a thought, do you have any comment on this obseration. 

Jerry


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am going to at least attempt to cut the mortises as well as the tenons on the router table. I may end up using the BS to cut the tenons, but I think that I can cut them on the router table. I have had good luck cutting key slots for picture frames on the router table, don't yet understand why I can't cut the mortises, but haven't tried it yet.


Hi again, Jerry

Tenons on a router table make perfect sense, but then so does using a bandsaw - so long as they are bare-faced tenons without rebates or scribed mouldings (think glazed doors). 

As to using a router in a table to cut mortise slots, you stated in an earlier post that your mortises will be ".750" long and .250" wide and perhaps an inch tall". I presume that you mean an inch _deep_ where you say "tall". Trying to cut a mortise on a router table like that is an interesting, not to say potentially dangerous, occupation. With a 1/4in cutter you'll need to make at least 4 or 5 passes to reach the full depth of 1inch, assuming that you will limit your depth of cut to be no more than square (i.e. depth of each pass no greater than the diameter of the cutter - more than that and you tend to overload the cutter). Unlike a key-slot a true mortise isn't open ended. If it were it wouldn't be a mortise and tenon joint, it would be a bridle joint:



















_Above: Examples of bridled joints

Below: a pinned bridle joint, sometimes referred to as an open tenon joint, but nevertheless still technically a bridled joint_










A bridled joint can be cut on a router table. It is a lot easier to make for the beginner but has much less strength than a true mortise joint, especially when subjected to twisting movements. A _*true*_ mortise done with a router requires the use to have some way to _safely_ increase the depth of cut for each pass of the cutter without "dropping on" for each pass. This isn't achievable with a fixed base router and is why European joiners tend to use plunge routers.

Regards

Phil


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Bill, just thinking about what you are saying. Makes me wonder if doing as you suggest mlght cause each of the eight tenons for a table to not all end up being exactly the same with the consequence being that the boards with the tenons on them may not all be level when assembled, just a thought, do you have any comment on this obseration.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry- 

That can happen with any joining technique. The adjustment for that is still in your fitting before assembling. Remember this:

_"Adjust. Adapt. Modify."_

You work with the idea that "nothing" is set in stone and it's in your plan that it's going to need minor adjustments... That you are going to make adjustments in the final fitting stage... Right? That's why, in many posts ago, I said you cut your tenons a little oversized, to allow for your final fitting. Easier to make the adjustments there on that side of the joint.

Like I said before, If when starting off in building those skills, if you make those adjoining faces stand off 1/8" to 1/4" in your project plans, then being a little off is not going to be as visual. This is a step in the learning process, as I was taught. When you can be precise with that, then you move up to makng the faces line up with each other... Until you get some skills built up and can easily, consistently get the adjoining faces to line up, then you provide a product with that precision level. That is the goal to work towards, with steps along the way to get there, with that joining technique.


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Bill, just thinking about what you are saying. Makes me wonder if doing as you suggest mlght cause each of the eight tenons for a table to not all end up being exactly the same with the consequence being that the boards with the tenons on them may not all be level when assembled, just a thought, do you have any comment on this obseration.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry,

That's true but on the other hand you might not chisel all eight ends of the mortises exactly the same from the end of the legs either... with the same result.

The strength of the joint comes from the shoulders and the long-grain glue surfaces on the cheeks, if you lose a smidgen off the length of the tenon it won't hurt anything if you have to tap the tops of the aprons and legs into alignment when you glue up.

Don't overthink this, it's a table not a platform for a thousand pound machine. Go out to the shop, pick up some scrap and play around until you get a feel for it. Most likely there'll be a fair amount of sanding, filing and inappropriate language involved anyway, it's really hard to get an exact "off-the-machine" fit. Try it both ways, see what works best for you.

BTW, for a chisel I'd suggest a run-of-the-mill 1/4" bevel-edge. You won't be removing much material and you can use it on the sides of the mortise as well as the ends. If you want to buy a set the old Marples Blue Chips used to be pretty good but they were bought out by Irwin and I dunno about the quality nowadays. I hear good things about the Narex chisels but have no personal experience. Both of those will run you less than $100 for a full set and be serviceable. Personally, I use the Lie-Nielsens, just pick up one at a time when I have the funds to spare. The Sorbys are pretty good as well.

David Charlesworth's DVDs are a great reference on chisel sharpening and use and an excellent treatment for insomnia as well.  

Just go do it!! Have Fun!!

Best,
Bill


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

When you go to buy your chisels, you might want to keep this info handy.

One more cog- the tool steel a woodworking chisel is made from... usually W1, 01 or A2

W1 is a high carbon tool steel that is water hardened (heat treated). It covers many grades that vary with the carbon content. These vary in easy to sharpen to taking forever to sharpen, keeping that edge respectively with the carbon content. The hardening is shallow and as such is nicknamed as case hardened.

01 is an oil hardened tool steel. It has a good edge keeping ability at the higher rockwell hardnesses. Ease of sharpening is relational to carbon steel based on it's hardness. The hardening is deeper than with W1. Is more forgiving than W1 in that it will bend and fold an edge where W1 will break and chip.

A2 is an air hardened tool steel. It is generally harder than 01. Is usually takes more time to sharpen than other chisels. It is known for low distortion and high wear. It keeps an edge. Air hardened tool steels have hardening that is very deep.

D2 is in the same category as A2 in that it is an air hardened tool steel. Has chromium for longer wear. Very hard to sharpen.

As my list goes from up to down, the prices for such go up. As the list gets between 01 and A2, somewhere between there, oilstones stop cutting it in being able to sharpen them. Wetstones, abrasive cloths and diamond stones still work. At the A2 down, then cheap wetstones stop working, where the named brand stones still work through the list.

But don't discount a "good" W1 high carbon steel chisel. I've got some old knives and chisels that have high carbon steel, that take forever to give them an edge, that take a very sharp edge and keep them a very long time. But if you don't keep a light coat of oil on them they will rust in a heart beat.

Hope that info helps in your choice.


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## TRBaker (Jul 5, 2012)

Jerry, there is a great series of videos at Logan Cabinet Shoppe that you might really enjoy. He also has several articles on different types of chisels on his blog.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

I have gotten more into doing thing more by hand, getting away from power tools. Here is Paul Sellers doing a mortise and tenon in oak:

Paul Sellers cuts a mortise and tenon joint by hand, in oak - YouTube

Cutting a Mortise - Mortise chisel vs bevel edge chisel - with Paul Sellers - YouTube

The older chisels are generally better than what you get today, and generally pretty inexpensive.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Or another inside look video:
Chopping a Mortise: An Inside Look, with Peter Follansbee - YouTube!

I was going to post a video of Christopher Schwartz doing mortises (quickly) with a mortising chisel... The video accompanied his article "Return Of The Old-school Mortiser"... but that site seems to be down tonight. Too bad. That is a great video.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Troy, thanks for digging that link up. A most excellent series of tutorials and how to's. I ran across that years ago and had forgotten just how informative it was. 



TRBaker said:


> Jerry, there is a great series of videos at Logan Cabinet Shoppe that you might really enjoy. He also has several articles on different types of chisels on his blog.


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