# DR Table Top



## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Last year I bought this second hand dining room set. Everything else is in top condition but the table top is in a very bad shape. 

I don’t know what kind of wood it is neither how to go about to restore the table surface.

Anyone recognizes the style? Any possible suggestion as to the type of wood?

Finally, how would you go about restoring the table surface?


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## George II (Nov 8, 2007)

Nicolas,

I resurfaced a end table awhile back and I used Formbys stripper and refinished it with min wax. Now I did all this before joining this wonderful forum. I do not like to refinish and paint but I would do it over again..
Just my opinion..
"G"
"Regulae Stultis Sunt"


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

This is a bit of a cheek on my part but I will take a shot:

1) Oak?
2) Strip, sand, stain, finish.

however...

the problem I see is matching the table top to the rest of the table if all you are going to do is the table top. Varathane sell little baggies of their products for less than a dollar each which might be useful to try and match without incurring a great expense.

I guess doing the whole table is not going to help either if you have chairs to match, too.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nicolas

It looks like a very nice table and well made, sometimes it's best to let the pro's do it right...they do it all the time... unlike you and I..it's a art..


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kolias said:


> Last year I bought this second hand dining room set. Everything else is in top condition but the table top is in a very bad shape.
> 
> I don’t know what kind of wood it is neither how to go about to restore the table surface.
> 
> ...


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Thank you crquack; bobj3, I completely agree however it is difficult to find a reputable “PRO”.

I did find a recommended pro but this guy is retired now and doesn’t do any work. Searching further I found some other ones; cost is about $200 to do the table top including pick up and delivery charges but I did not like their attitude. In addition, I would have liked to give it a crack myself just for the experience and satisfaction.

Right now I have stripped and sanded smooth the top to the bare wood and looks good. Next step is to find the required materials to do the finish. So far I was told to use:

Step1: Red Mahogany Minwax oil base woodfinish stain (perhaps 2 coats to achieve the desired colour)
Step2: Minwax antique oil finish (1 coat).
Finally 3 layers of Minwax special dark paste finishing wax.

I still have some other places to check for more alternatives. To assure that the finished colour would be the same, I will do first a trial run on a scrap piece of oak I have and if close enough I will do a small patch on the under side of the table.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

I find the staining procedures confusing. According to Flexner's book additional coats of stain do not darken the colours, but it seems to be SOP with the manufacturers.

I wonder what the antique oil finish does to the colour. Would a wipe-on poly be a useful alternative?

Then there is the whole thing of "finishing the finish" by rubbing a month after the final finish coat has cured.

Please keep us posted about your methods and how you got on with the project. I, for one, do not do anywhere near enough of this stuff to acquire enough experience so learning from others is pretty much essential.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

The project progresses slowly because I have to wait after each step.

Now the table top is clean to the bare wood, the surface is vacuumed and then wiped off clean with a clean piece of cloth.

Next I use a piece of oak vaneer plywood I had as a sample to try the suggested process:

I applied a coat of Minwax Pre-Stain Conditioner, let it sit for 10 minutes and then applied Minwax Gel Stain (Cabarnet #457) and let it sit for 30 minutes.

After that I wiped off the excess stain. This is the tricky part because by wiping off the excess stain you control the “shade” of your final colour. Too much pressure and it becomes too light so you have to do it slowly until you get the desired shade.

Next I applied Minwax Antique Oil Finish and let it sit for 24 hours. Tomorrow I will proceed to the next step; don’t forget that I’m working on the sample now.

So far the results are perfect.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

Note that Minwax recommend *two* coats of the antique oil.

Not sure from the pics: Did the colour change at all after applying the oil?


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

crquack said:


> Note that Minwax recommend *two* coats of the antique oil.
> 
> Not sure from the pics: Did the colour change at all after applying the oil?



I only applied one coat of the antique oil because I'm still working on a piece of scrap; the colour did not change at all after the oil application.

However the testing on my piece of scrap is done and the results are not perfect. Very close to my desired colour but it has a hint of brown on it and that I dont want. So tomorrow is back to the store again to get another stain ($7.00). I noticed on the web that BEHR have a red cherry stain which looks very good for me.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Had no success this morning getting another stain and so I proceed with the one I have which is “pretty close” for my needs.

I started with the middle removable section and as you can see from the photo the “Pre-Stain Conditioner” did change the color on the top. I let it dry 10 minutes, and then wiped off any excess oil.

Then I applied the stain, let it sit for 10 minutes and then wiped off CAREFULLY any excess following the wood grain. After 6 hrs I will apply the 1st coat of the “Antique Oil Finish” and then I have to wait 24 hrs to apply the 2nd coat of this oil. 

The results so far are good. Although not a perfect mach, the difference will be hardly noticed. I'm expecting the 2 antique oil coats and the 4 coats of dark paste wax to darken the present finish; if not, I will be in trouble


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

Hey, judging from the photos (I flipped them side by side) the result looks pretty marvellous!

If the oil does not change the colour, the paste wax should not matter as it can be easily removed.

I do like the gel stains: I used some (Varathane - also red mahogany) on pine and cherry and thought the results pretty good. Better, in any case, than using the Minwax polyshades. But I only stained small pieces.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

In this photo you can hardly see the difference but the center piece has the 1st coat of the antique oil completely dry and the two end pieces the antique oil is just applied and still yet.

If I had to do it again, I will not use the antique oil finish. I first try to use a stain cloth to rub it on but it removes the stain very easy; then I used a paint brush which if you are not careful still removes the stain. The result now is that after the antique oil application the shade is much lighter than expected.

When I first applied the stain, I had a nice and uniform shade and the grain was coming thru nice and even. I think if I would have used a polyurethane coat right after the stain dried, the results would have been excellent.

As it is now, I still have to apply another coat of the antique oil finish, wait 24 hrs and then apply four coats of dark wax paste to the table.


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## Timberwerkz (Jan 1, 2010)

Kolias,

For future reference, wood conditioner/pre-stain is only needed for the woods with tight grain that don't take stain evenly ie: Cherry, Maple, Pine, Birch. These are the most common problem woods but there are more. Wood conditioner preloads wood pore with a fluid(usually a boiled linseed oil concoction) so that the pours that want to absorb more stain are already partially saturated in the hopes that when the stain is added all of the pours will absorb stain evenly. With oak or similar grain structured woods you can choose to highlight the grain pattern or give everything an even color depending on the type of stain you choose.

Chris


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Thanks Chris for the tip, I will keep it in mind


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Well Chris your tip paid off very well……

By accident, I forgot to apply this morning the wood conditioner before the stain on the two end pieces and noticed that the first coat of the antique oil finish went on much easier without lifting the stain plus after about 6 hrs the oil was dry.

Now I noticed that the middle piece was much lighter than the 2 end pieces and remembering your tip I decided to remove it, sand it down to bare wood again and applied the stain without wood conditioner.

The results finally were excellent; now I have the 2 end pieces with the 1st coat of antique oil finish applied and the middle piece with the stain only applied and I can see that all 3 pieces are the same colour, despite that the 2 end pieces are shiny and the middle is flat since it doesn’t have any antique oil finish yet.

Thanks again for the tip, much appreciated


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

In fact one of the benefits of *gel* stains is that they are supposed to be more even, i.e. prevent blotchiness without having to use wood conditioner. I used the wood conditioner for the Polyshades and no conditioner with the gel stain on my pine pieces and the gel stain looks better.


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

The antique oil is a mixture of linseed oil,polyurethane varnish and a great deal of mineral spirits,about 70%. Whatever you do try your finishes on some scrap oak or on the bottom of the table top first. Don't use the top as your test board.

Regards
Jerry


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

crquack said:


> In fact one of the benefits of *gel* stains is that they are supposed to be more even, i.e. prevent blotchiness without having to use wood conditioner. I used the wood conditioner for the Polyshades and no conditioner with the gel stain on my pine pieces and the gel stain looks better.



You are right, I also prefer the gel stains, they are more controlable and you can work much better on the desired shade you want


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Although the colour / shade of the table are excellent, the first and second coat of the antique oil finish produced tiny bubbles and it doesn’t look good to me.

I use what Harry had suggested in another thread of this section (0000 steel wool) to apply the wax but this process removes some bubbles but not all. The wax gives a nice shine but when you look at the table in a certain angle you can see the bubbles.

What creates the bubbles? They are small like a needle head

I have enough materials and I’m thinking to re do the whole thing again.


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## Timberwerkz (Jan 1, 2010)

Nicolas,

I'm glad I was able to help.

Are they bubbles or craters? It could be some form of a contaminate that was on the table most likely from sanding or the stripper you used. Did you rinse the table with distilled water before finishing? Sometimes that can help. Another thing you can try is after you stain the table put a coat of blonde shellac over that to seal the contaminate in then finish over that. I don't know if that would work with your antique oil or not as it might hinder the linseed oil from penetrating the wood.

Jeff Jewitt has a great book on finishing I think it's called Wood Finishing. I have Bob Flexner's book as well it to is a great book. Jeff Jewitt's book is a little easier to read and Bob Flexner's book cover anything and everything you would want to know, but it's a little more technical

Chris


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

I think they are bubbles like a tiny ball cut in half. I don’t believe there was any contaminates because after I applied the stain the surface was smooth, even and perfect. No contaminates at least non I could see. They appeared after the 1st coat of antique oil and more after the 2nd coat.

I didn’t rinse the table top as you described but I vacuumed the surface first and then passed a wet lint free rug.

Now after the 2nd coat of wax I have a hell of a time to make it shiny, to hard to make a good job by hands and tomorrow I will borrow a power buffer to see the difference.

I’m thinking to start all over again; my opinion is that if after I applied the stain and I had a beautiful finish I should have put a coat of polyurethane and it should have been done. Tonight its decision time and tomorrow we will see. Most likely I will start all over again.

Thanks for your help Chris, much appreciated


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## Timberwerkz (Jan 1, 2010)

I have had the craters form on a piece that was vaccumed and wiped down with a tack cloth. It could be that the finish dried to fast and didn't have time to release any air in it after application ( just a guess though).

Glad I could help at least a little, that what we are here for to help and be helped

Chris


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

And this picture shows the final results

I decided not to re do the table because the bubbles are not visible that much. If you don’t know that they are there you will not notice them; you must be in a specific angle and with the light at the right angle to be able to see them.

The final shine was achieved by spraying “Pledge”. It is a house hold furniture dust removal / polishing spray can sold at local stores.

Would I do the same process again? Yes but next time I would let the stain dry for 48 hrs instead of 24 and I will use a foam roller to apply the antique oil finish. In addition, the antique oil finish is quite expensive ($18.00 for 946 mL) but I was able to apply 2 coats on this large table and still have almost half left; a polyurethane can would have been less expensive and probably give the same results.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nicolas

You did a VERY nice job on it...I'm impress  ,I wish I could run my hand down it, one of the things that feel so nice  

=====


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Thank you bobj3, yes it does feel nice to run your hands on it; that is the advantage of paste wax, in addition that it smells nice it also has a nice feel on it and I dont think that a polyurethane finish would have the same feel.

I started re doing a second hand bedroom set I also bought last year and I will follow the same process. This one needs more work because it has quite a few cigarette burn marks on the dresser top / night tables and it will need a lot of sanding.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Woooooooooo Nicolas... excellent job!!! Perhaps there is 'now' a restorer in your area?


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Nice!!


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

twoskies57 said:


> woooooooooo nicolas... Excellent job!!! Perhaps there is 'now' a restorer in your area?



lol lol lol


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

kolias said:


> lol lol lol


indeed *S* perhaps a lil humor intended. but around here, there is some nice money to be made in restoration!!


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

Outstanding!

However, you do realize that the Pledge probably removed all the paste wax?


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

crquack said:


> Outstanding!
> 
> However, you do realize that the Pledge probably removed all the paste wax?



I think I have at least 4 coats of Minwax Dark Paste Finishing Wax on the table top; I don’t think that the Pledge removed even one because I would have seen it. 

I only used Pledge because I had a hard time getting an even shine on the surface and the muscles in my hands were gone LOL; and it only took not more than 3 minutes from the time I sprayed the Pledge and gave it a final buff to get the final shine. Not likely in 3 minutes with a light buff to remove 4 coats of paste wax.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

I am simply quoting Flexner. I cannot tell just by looking at the picture. In any case I probably could not tell the difference in shine caused by the lemon oil in Pledge or the paste wax if I was looking at the piece directly.

Actually you gave me an idea: I am in the middle of a rust proofing trial and one of the pieces is covered with three layers of paste wax. I know it's metal but it might be interesting to see how easy is to remove these layers with Pledge.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

crquack said:


> I am simply quoting Flexner. I cannot tell just by looking at the picture. In any case I probably could not tell the difference in shine caused by the lemon oil in Pledge or the paste wax if I was looking at the piece directly.
> 
> Actually you gave me an idea: I am in the middle of a rust proofing trial and one of the pieces is covered with three layers of paste wax. I know it's metal but it might be interesting to see how easy is to remove these layers with Pledge.



Now I get, we are not talking about the same product.

The Pledge I used is made by Johnson and it is an Anti-Dust Formula; reading at the side of the spray can it says: Removes dust, dirt, smudges, and common allergens from pet dander and pollen – protects from water spills and stains – no wax formula – no residue build-up – Do not spray or use on floors as it could leave them slippery.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

Note how they carefully do not tell you what is in it. The anti-dust/no wax residue spiel is part of at least four of their products' description. However, if you read between the lines it has to contain some form of oil/solvent which is why Flexner does not recommend mixing paste wax finishes with furniture polish/cleaner.

Still, who cares as long as it works:lazy:


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