# Hardboard for table top



## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

I know hardboard gets used for work table tops and even router table tops. I read somewhere here about using hardboard that's finished on both sides. I got to doing more research on hardboard, AKA: "Masonite" the well known name brand.
Here's what I found. Seems like S2S is what's needed for my project.
https://harborsales.net/Portals/0/docs/hardboard_what_is_it.pdf

Wow, more to hardboard than I thought. I install flooring, carpet, vinyl laminate and floating type flooring etc. I use 1/8" hardboard as a floor protector to slide furniture on. Lot's of other uses. The stuff that I use has a '_sorta_" hard surface and in finished on one side.
I need some good old Masonite for stability and strength if I'm going to use it for my router table's work surface. That is If I can find some. None of the 4 local lumber yards stock anything like S2S or Masonite brand.
I need to know what kind of screwing pattern is needed so the surface remains _flat_ when I screw it onto the table. Is 6 inch spacing close enough for 1/4" Masonite (or equivalent)?


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Hey Randy I would use glue to attach the hard board.


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

I figured it would be replaceable if countersunk screws were used. I'm making an aluminum frame as the superstructure of the top. 
I figure on using a combination of rectangular 1-1/2" by 1" aluminum for the perimeter of the frame and then use square 3/4 by 3/4" metal for the center cross supports. The tubing has .160" wall thickness and that's good for welding and won't sag on such short spans. I figure 26" by 32" or 24" by 30"


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

For my router table(s), I used Formica laminated on 3/4 inch MDF, and on 3/4 inch plywood.

The work bench top was a solid core door. I put the Formica on it also. It got quiet a workout before I passed it on to my brother in law. He loves it.


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Wow, I want one of each of those........... and a shop too. :grin:

I should have mentioned that mine is made to be light and portable. A strong and extremely flat aluminum table top with a thin flat work surface. I don't have an indoor work area, or works shop, so the table top will be stored indoors when not in use......... not in use will be most of the time. I won't use this very often.


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## AshleyJ (Dec 1, 2017)

Off topic...

Each time I see a picture of Mike's dueling routers table, I intuitively love it... and I wonder what I'd do with a two router table setup. Of course this is coming from a guy who joined the forum less than two months ago for advice on his _first_ router purchase and I've thus far resisted the temptation to buy a second. :smile:

Back to topic, if I was attaching 1/4" masonite atop an aluminum frame for a router table, I'd want very close support spacing and I'd want the router attached to the aluminum and not the masonite. If the aluminum supports were spaced 4" apart, I'd be comfortable. At 6", I think the masonite would deflect under pressure. My brain is much happier thinking of my tools as not moving at all, so I want movement below perception level.

I'd feel much better about the whole thing with the masonite attached to at least 1/2" plywood, and I'd screw the plywood to the frame from underneath. And if not for the support structure mentioned, I'd use a double layer of plywood as others above suggested.

You'll get more experienced advise from others though. I'm still a router newbie.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

double stick tape for the field and 4 corners for the screws..


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

AshleyJ said:


> Off topic...
> 
> Each time I see a picture of Mike's dueling routers table, I intuitively love it... and I wonder what I'd do with a two router table setup. Of course this is coming from a guy who joined the forum less than two months ago for advice on his _first_ router purchase and I've thus far resisted the temptation to buy a second. :smile:
> 
> ...


The plywood on the aluminum as you mentioned was the same as I was thinking initially.... The possibility of using only Masonite became my thought at some point. If that doesn't feel like it will work, then the plywood will be used. I can't get arctic birch anywhere locally, but some high layer cabinet grade might be stable if sealed up well. 
I'm going to have to wait to see how the aluminum table framework comes out first.


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> double stick tape for the field and 4 corners for the screws..


I like that, Stick. 
I'll see if I can draw up a sketch of the frame idea. I have a friend that's an excellent welder. I just need to cut the aluminum pieces accurately.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is something for you to consider...

The portable work table I made has proven to be very handy. Just a top and a couple of saw horses and a pair of 2x4's. I cut the 2x4's so they would fit inside of the bed of my truck (68 inches).

The dog holes make for all kinds of clamping possibilities.

3/4 inch mdf with a couple of coats off poly so the glue won't stick.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> I like that, Stick.
> I'll see if I can draw up a sketch of the frame idea. I have a friend that's an excellent welder. I just need to cut the aluminum pieces accurately.


I did a aluminum torsion frame from 1/8'' architectural C channel only the butt joints are draw bolted not welded...
cut the pieces to length..
TIG a 1/4'' plate that is drilled and tapped to accept the screw/bolt of your choice to the inside of the channel... I used pan head 12/24's...
set the plate back from the end a 1/4'' or so...
think screwed/bolted together butt and perpendicular joints...
the plates are faster to install...
lot less welding... 
finite accuracy is not important...
you experience less material shape changing that has to be ''fixed''......
the frame can be reworked/improved w/ minimal effort..
you can slot holes to make joints adjustable/tweakable...
far less waste and errors are easily corrected...

the purpose of the raised top on the table is to allow for multiple use..
the area to the left is for the miter knife/trimmer, FMT and D4R... the router portion lends to material support if need be..

tempered hardboard (smooth both sides) is as bullet proof for a work table top as you can get...
*BUT* is it a poor wear surface...
nothing beats high pressure laminate on a single sheet/slab/piece of 3/4'' Baltic Birch for hardware mounting, stability, moisture/water proofing, grooving, flatness, longevity, surviving wear and tear unless it's 1'' BB or A/B or A/C fir..........
BTDT w/ hardboard/MDF and a host of other methods... all of which in the end were a waste...

the ply in theses pic is over 40 years old... 

.


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Here's close to what I originally came up with. If I moved the lift plate and the associated supports about 4 inches to the left, I could add a 5th cross support towards the right side.
The router and lift weighs about 20 lbs and I think those two 3/4" heavy wall square aluminum sections will easily support that weight on a 24 inch span because the 1/4" aluminum lift plate takes up a good portion of the span.
Drawing is not to scale, but sorta kinda close enough for this visual.:wink:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> Here's close to what I originally came up with. If I moved the lift plate and the associated supports about 4 inches to the left, I could add a 5th cross support towards the right side.
> The router and lift weighs about 20 lbs and I think those two 3/4" heavy wall square aluminum sections will easily support that weight on a 24 inch span because the 1/4" aluminum lift plate takes up a good portion of the span.
> Drawing is not to scale, but sorta kinda close enough for this visual.:wink:


I see the need for 2 intermediate cross members in the left and right bays..
the plate boxed and one intermediate in the center bay centered and forward of the router plate..
now you really have a stable torsion frame and major support for the router.....


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Good images for being that old, Stick. My router will not be used very often. I won't ever do volumes of woodwork like many of you guys do.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> Good images for being that old, Stick. My router will not be used very often. I won't ever do volumes of woodwork like many of you guys do.


the material is over 40 years old...
the table is closer to a decade...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> Good images for being that old, Stick. My router will not be used very often. I won't ever do volumes of woodwork like many of you guys do.


do it once...
don't spend any more of anything on your table...


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Like this.......... I could park my truck on it .


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

I like those tables Mike, 'specially them dog holes. Lota shop space there. I wish I had something like that.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Randy,I think you are thinking of Tempered Masonite, it is different than plain masonite.
Here is the product that HD sells:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-4-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-MDF-S2S-Tempered-Hardboard-Panel-158498/205187184

Seems like it may not be available everywhere.

Herb


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Definitely tempered, Herb. From HD, I'm surprised they even mention that it's type S2S 
Nearest HD is 120 miles from me. Be interesting to know who the manufacturer is. 
Thanks for the link.


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## AshleyJ (Dec 1, 2017)

ranman said:


> Like this.......... I could park my truck on it .


Now I'm curious to see @stick's reply because I had a different image in my head...

Starting with the original frame, which had two E-W members for top and bottom (picture orientation)... and for N-S members for left & right side + left & right of plate...

This new frame picture adds one N-S pieces to each of left and right bays... but instead of that, I thought Stick meant...
... adding two *E-W* members to both the left and right bays.



Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

AshleyJ said:


> but instead of that, I thought Stick meant...
> ... adding two *E-W* members to both the left and right bays.


correct
and one E-W member to the center bay...
the wrap frame around the router plate is what I meant also..


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Randy,I think you are thinking of Tempered Masonite, it is different than plain masonite.
> Here is the product that HD sells:
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-4-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-MDF-S2S-Tempered-Hardboard-Panel-158498/205187184
> 
> ...


Herb, do they have it over where you are? I'm not that far from you as the crow flies, however taking the bridges into account not that close. However HD says there is none within 100 miles from me.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

old coasty said:


> Herb, do they have it over where you are? I'm not that far from you as the crow flies, however taking the bridges into account not that close. However HD says there is none within 100 miles from me.


I found this at Lowes, seems HD is not carrying it now.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/47-75-in-x-7-98-ft-Smooth-Brown-Hardboard-Wall-Panel/3014304

Herb


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

AshleyJ said:


> Now I'm curious to see @stick's reply because I had a different image in my head...
> 
> Starting with the original frame, which had two E-W members for top and bottom (picture orientation)... and for N-S members for left & right side + left & right of plate...
> 
> ...





Stick486 said:


> correct
> and one E-W member to the center bay...
> the wrap frame around the router plate is what I meant also..


More like this?
My lift plate will not sag at all if the two additional members are not added. My router 's weight does not hang from the center of the plate like most factory made lifts and plates do. It's weight hangs from the edges of the plate.
I think the need for more supports depends on if I include a layer of plywood onto the frame...... which just may happen. 
I'm very appreciative of the advice from everyone here. The more input I get, the better the decision I will make.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> More like this?


almost...
divide the left and right bays into thirds....
now you will be covered for about anything you could do...
loads are more uniformly distributed, nothing sags, flexes and all remains flat...
what you are doing is called bridging... it's more than just support..
impact shocks and weight loads are spread out across the members...

ever walk across a floor that flexes and vibrates???
added bridging dampens all or most of that shake rattle and roll through distribution..


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

Got it. 
I do flooring installation. At a time, 4 foot spans between supports met code. I think they required 1 1/4" T&G plywood subflooring if your did that. Looked pretty nice initially, but two problems. The floors sagged over time, (a very short time) and the floor was bouncy from the get go. Clocks and plates would rattle when you walk across a room. 
Give me 1 1/8" plywood on 16's and you got yourself a floor.
Part of my initial simplicity was because of welding. I figured the more welding, the more chance of distortion. Bolting or screwing only as you mentioned earlier would give control over that issue. My friend has a roll around table he uses for welding and other things. It's top is1/2 inch thick steel, and it's _*flat.*_ Great work surface.

This one would be good too. :grin: But I'd need a milling machine if I wanted to make it pretty


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## Ecomma (Jan 1, 2010)

MT Stringer said:


> For my router table(s), I used Formica laminated on 3/4 inch MDF, and on 3/4 inch plywood.
> 
> The work bench top was a solid core door. I put the Formica on it also. It got quiet a workout before I passed it on to my brother in law. He loves it.


Mike can you clarify, did you use formica, on 3/4" MDF on 3/4" Plywood? Were you afraid a double layer of 3/4" MDF might sag over the course of several years, or was it just what you had at hand?

Thank you,

Eric


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> I found this at Lowes, seems HD is not carrying it now.
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/47-75-in-x-7-98-ft-Smooth-Brown-Hardboard-Wall-Panel/3014304
> 
> Herb


Thanks, Lowes has it here.


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