# Do you use a story board and how?



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

In some of my travels I've come across several uses for story boards. One person defined story rods for large projects, story boards for medium sized projects and detail boards for small projects. How do you use them and how do you define them?

Allthunbs


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

*Howdy haven't seen you much lately*

Greetings Allthunbs, been wondering where you were, did not see many posts from you of late. I trust things are going reasonably well these days. It may be that I have not been as consistent here as before I started on the basement project. And now that has expanded by about 2X maybe more.

The plastic to the right will become a permanent wall with 7' French door, Once that is done I will move the garage 11.5' assembly down, move lawn mowers and such up, an then move every thing else into the new area. That will make room for the new bath on that end. To confusing to lay it all out, gives me a headache and back ache.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Allthunbs,
I just got semi-proficient with a story STICK! And now you ask about a whole board??


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Jerry:



xplorx4 said:


> Greetings Allthunbs, been wondering where you were, did not see many posts from you of late. I trust things are going reasonably well these days. It may be that I have not been as consistent here as before I started on the basement project. And now that has expanded by about 2X maybe more.


When Bob flamed me I figured I'd pull out of the forum. I pulled all my essays and I am looking for a new home for them. But then, why worry about a turkey when eagles are far more interesting.

That aside, my time for posting is limited for the next while. We're in the process of moving to "the land of the Great Manitou."



xplorx4 said:


> The plastic to the right will become a permanent wall with 7' French door, Once that is done I will move the garage 11.5' assembly down, move lawn mowers and such up, an then move every thing else into the new area. That will make room for the new bath on that end. To confusing to lay it all out, gives me a headache and back ache.


Nicely done. Are you going to put a vapour barrier over the stud walls? I assume that they are outside walls. Are you going to make the french doors yourself? If so, I'm in dire need of plans for french doors.

Allthunbs


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Gene Howe said:


> Allthunbs,
> I just got semi-proficient with a story STICK! And now you ask about a whole board??


Hi Gene: just in case you are proficient with a story STICK, I'll bite. Tell us about your story stick. What size, shape, do you use all 4 faces and 2 ends? What priority for each side? How do you do layouts from it - directly or do you use it as a reference tool and use a ruler and scribe?

Gotta go

Allthunbs


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Although one might say that every board has its own story, and few less than horrific from the board's perspective, I'm assuming you're using "story board" in the project-planning, sequence of operations perspective. (?)

When planning a project, I try to think about the sequence of operations involved in the construction, and then organize them appropriately for both convenience and safety. I make notes (a story script?). 

If I'm also going to write a tutorial, supported by photographs, the notes describing each step might translate to the individual photos required to properly illustrate the steps or concepts involved. The images then become the story board, as the phrase is used in an editorial sense.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ralph Barker said:


> Although one might say that every board has its own story, and few less than horrific from the board's perspective, I'm assuming you're using "story board" in the project-planning, sequence of operations perspective. (?)
> 
> When planning a project, I try to think about the sequence of operations involved in the construction, and then organize them appropriately for both convenience and safety. I make notes (a story script?).
> 
> If I'm also going to write a tutorial, supported by photographs, the notes describing each step might translate to the individual photos required to properly illustrate the steps or concepts involved. The images then become the story board, as the phrase is used in an editorial sense.


Hi Ralph:

Close but no T-shirt. You are speaking of a story board as in a publication or movie etc.

The story rod/board/stick accomplishes something similar but specifically for construction or building something. For example, I found a demonstration on the 'net where the builder used a story board to layout a kitchen counter. He indicated where each drawer/shelving module would go, where the water and electrical was located and he "adjusted" his drawer/shelf units according to the story board. He indicated he used a story rod for framing applications, a story board for large projects like kitchens and bathrooms and a detail board for small items like a piece of furniture etc.

He then took his story board and used it to create the dimensions for each piece as he built it. There are two philosophies here. First, you use the story board and mark your cuts directly from the story board. The other philosophy says that you should take your measurements from the story board and copy them to the workpiece to make your cut.

I'm getting the idea but without people to talk to, it is impossible to learn.

Allthunbs


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Gene: just in case you are proficient with a story STICK, I'll bite. Tell us about your story stick. What size, shape, do you use all 4 faces and 2 ends? What priority for each side? How do you do layouts from it - directly or do you use it as a reference tool and use a ruler and scribe?
> 
> Gotta go
> 
> Allthunbs


As I said, semi proficient. I only use one side and only a part of that.
Size does matter. But sometimes I'll clamp two together if one won't satisfy the need. In all honesty, I rarely use a ruler and my wife acts as my scribe. At least I can read her writing.
BTW, Good to see you. Where is it your'e relocating to?


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Ralph:
> 
> Close but no T-shirt. You are speaking of a story board as in a publication or movie etc.
> 
> ...


Oh oh, I really thought you were referring to a cinematic device, hence my rather off hand posts. Sorry.
Yep, I use a stick just as you described above. And I really have found it necessary to clamp two or more 8' sticks together for some kitchens. Especially if the customer is a long way from my home. I always back it up with written dimensions in those cases. And yes, the wife often accompanies me.
I prefer to mark my cuts directly from the stick. Maybe "mark" isn't totally accurate in every instance. I really want to lay out the cut at the TS using the stick at the saw. No pencils involved. 
I started using a stick after relying on blue prints (for the first and last time) for my measurements, only to find that a wall had been moved between the time I accepted the commission and when we delivered the kitchen cabinets.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Gene Howe said:


> As I said, semi proficient. I only use one side and only a part of that.
> Size does matter. But sometimes I'll clamp two together if one won't satisfy the need. In all honesty, I rarely use a ruler and my wife acts as my scribe. At least I can read her writing.
> BTW, Good to see you. Where is it your'e relocating to?


Ok, question here. How do you mark and reassemble the boards when you get back to the shop? What do you put on your boards? Do you go so far as to indicate variations in wall straightness? What other information do you include? Do you do a separate story board for vertical measurements and one for horizontal or do you even do them for x-y-z planes?

Thanks. We're heading "back home." Back to rural Quebec. Just scrambling right now trying to resolve differences between Civil laws in Quebec and Common laws in Ontario, Public Notaries in Quebec and Barristers and Solicitors in Ontario, metric/British imperial/and two French Royal measuring systems, two languages and two different ways at looking at life.

Allthunbs


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Allthumbs,
May not be the same thing you're looking for, "story board or pole" but in the house framing world, siding in particular a story board/pole is used to define the locations of the bottom and top course and the tops and bottoms of windows, doors, eyebrows, awnings steps, etc., that get in the way of a shingle course. 

Mark all said items then devide the space between them for even courses, exposed to the weather. Rule of thumb windows are the usual gauge, (more of them set at the same hgt.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> Allthumbs,
> May not be the same thing you're looking for, "story board or pole" but in the house framing world, siding in particular a story board/pole is used to define the locations of the bottom and top course and the tops and bottoms of windows, doors, eyebrows, awnings steps, etc., that get in the way of a shingle course.
> 
> Mark all said items then devide the space between them for even courses, exposed to the weather. Rule of thumb windows are the usual gauge, (more of them set at the same hgt.


This sounds like the ticket. Got any pictures? You've given me a good idea of what is there, now what is the next step? How do you transfer that information over to the actual laying out of the siding? Do you duplicate the story pole and snap chalk lines from it or do you take measurements and transfer them using rules or tapes?

Any other examples?

Thanks Ghidrah

Allthunbs


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

allthunbs said:


> Ok, question here. How do you mark and reassemble the boards when you get back to the shop? What do you put on your boards? Do you go so far as to indicate variations in wall straightness? What other information do you include? Do you do a separate story board for vertical measurements and one for horizontal or do you even do them for x-y-z planes?
> 
> Thanks. We're heading "back home." Back to rural Quebec. Just scrambling right now trying to resolve differences between Civil laws in Quebec and Common laws in Ontario, Public Notaries in Quebec and Barristers and Solicitors in Ontario, metric/British imperial/and two French Royal measuring systems, two languages and two different ways at looking at life.
> 
> Allthunbs


If more than one is needed, they are marked as 1,2,3. End of 1 is marked on 2, end of 2 on 1..etc. I know...redundant, but habit.

Separate sticks for vertical...real handy for windows, above refrigerators etc. ...and referenced on the horizontal stick. I don't use a stick for odd depths. It's noted on paper and referenced on the sticks.

Geeze, I thought our legal system was complicated from state to state.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Gene Howe said:


> If more than one is needed, they are marked as 1,2,3. End of 1 is marked on 2, end of 2 on 1..etc. I know...redundant, but habit.
> 
> Separate sticks for vertical...real handy for windows, above refrigerators etc. ...and referenced on the horizontal stick. I don't use a stick for odd depths. It's noted on paper and referenced on the sticks.
> 
> Geeze, I thought our legal system was complicated from state to state.


Hi Gene: Thanks. Now, marks closest to the edge have priority over marks made further into the board? For example, I mark the corner as the starting point for kitchen cabinets. I move along and I hit a window ledge so I mark it on the board where it is closest to the wall. I do the same for other obstructions, pipes, electrical etc. However, I layout the cabinet bases an inch or two inside the boards and the face frame elements another inch or two further in. Am I making sense?

Allthunbs


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

So that's why its a BOARD not a STICK. Now I get it. My stick is usually 3/4X1 1/2 or so. Varies according to what 8'ers I have to make it with.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Allthumbs, 
If I knew what you were doing I might be of better help.
If you were talking lathe work, any plywood or 1X stock would suffice.

Pic, vertical black at gable ends, assume are Corner boards with story boards tacked on.
Black horiz. lines are pertinent points on wall, door windows and platform. which are marked on stick. 
Story pole marks pertinent points on wall, (sorry so faded, not used to making these things up.

(Note)
On a new house its pretty safe to use the soffit on the eave as a stop when marking the windows etc. On older houses and especially anything from the late 50s back, (horrible foundations and framing practices) I transit from a corner to get the most angles I can. In both cases I make a -0- point on the stick and C. boards as a reference point for all the sides of the house.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> Allthumbs,
> If I knew what you were doing I might be of better help.
> If you were talking lathe work, any plywood or 1X stock would suffice.
> 
> ...


Hi Ghidrah:

I'm learning. I have always used a ruler. Don't trust tapes and even rules are suspect. But I ran into an old timer that swore by story boards so I started looking into them. Interesting concepts, now I have to learn how to use them. Then, my objective is always to document what I learn and test it by putting it out for others to read a comment on then as part of a "thank you" and to ensure that the knowledge is not lost.

I'm thinking that I use a self levelling laser to establish a reference point and from there I use story boards to do all my configuring. Then, do up the plans to scale. The story boards become the QA tool.

Thanks for the insight and the graphic. BTW, now we have story rods, story poles, story boards, detail boards and story sticks. Any more?

Do they all do the same job or is there some sort of hierarchy to all of this?

"In both cases I make a -0- point on the stick and C. boards as a reference point for all the sides of the house."

What is "C."?

Thanks again, Ron

Allthunbs


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Rulers aren't so good in framing, not long enough, each move increases the potential for error. What don't you like about mylar tapes?

The "JOB" of the board/pole is as a gauge to maintain continuity when siding the building. I have found few uses for them outside of framing and lathe work.

"C. board" = corner board, vertical trim boards at corners of most buildings. 

-0- lines, a reference point for the story pole on convoluted structures. 

Siding,
Be aware, each state has rules for 2TW, (to the weather = course hgt) for acceptable materials. Each town may have restrictions above the state. Architects usually set 2TW by local code unless there are artistic or historical values for above the code variances, like geometric patterns or murals, (hearts diamonds waves, animals) etc. 

Once a primary side has been chosen and the marks made on the story board, they "CAN NOT BE ALTERED" from one side of the structure to another. 

A laser leveler would work if the beam is bright enough to shoot outside during the day at corners up to say 100' away , (My transit is plus or minus 1/4" at 100'). I pick the front of the house and shoot from a point giving the greatest number of points or corners. 

Example
Shoot from "1X", "P" = points of -0- line. I would then move to the backyard and shoot off P1 from 2X to the remaining available points. 

Length of pole
Set the top of the pole to the soffit or freeze board at the corner of the building, determine where the bottom of the starter course will be while accommodating the building code and mark it. Mark the -0- line on the pole, meas., dupe and cut the poles to length. 

Snap chalk to connect -0- lines and use a good level and straight edge to the spots you can't. Once done move the pole to the windows and doors on the primary side, match the poles -0- line to the wall and mark the tops
and bottoms. 

There are exceptions to the pole, that may not line up like bathrm windows and poor framing practices on additions. Also the pole/board is only good for the 1st fl. a 2nd pole must be made for 2nd fls. dormers and gables.

P.S.
I don't know why the thumb wont expand
P.P.S. OK I think I kind of figured it out the pic is in the post below, I couldn't figure out how to get the good one in this post


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Lets see if this works


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> Rulers aren't so good in framing, not long enough, each move increases the potential for error. What don't you like about mylar tapes?


I don't know about mylar, I don't have any. All I have are metal ribbon tapes and even ignoring the problem with the end tab, they are seldom accurate. I started by building tool modules for my tools and the first one was fraught with problems. By the time I had rebuilt it, I tracked the problem back to the tapes I was using. Since then, I use a group of tested rules from 18" to 48" and ruler stops.



Ghidrah said:


> The "JOB" of the board/pole is as a gauge to maintain continuity when siding the building. I have found few uses for them outside of framing and lathe work.


Good! Could I say that you measure but use the story pole to ensure the accuracy of your measurements?

I have watched a video online with a fellow using a story board to do the layout for kitchen cabinets, which is what started this whole mess.



Ghidrah said:


> "C. board" = corner board, vertical trim boards at corners of most buildings.
> 
> -0- lines, a reference point for the story pole on convoluted structures.


Are there other, less used, short forms?



Ghidrah said:


> Siding,
> Be aware, each state has rules for 2TW, (to the weather = course hgt) for acceptable materials. Each town may have restrictions above the state. Architects usually set 2TW by local code unless there are artistic or historical values for above the code variances, like geometric patterns or murals, (hearts diamonds waves, animals) etc.


I'll be using this on brick without C. So, I should put up a temporary corner board? Is the corner board integral to the use of the story pole?



Ghidrah said:


> Once a primary side has been chosen and the marks made on the story board, they "CAN NOT BE ALTERED" from one side of the structure to another.
> 
> A laser leveler would work if the beam is bright enough to shoot outside during the day at corners up to say 100' away , (My transit is plus or minus 1/4" at 100'). I pick the front of the house and shoot from a point giving the greatest number of points or corners.


I'm thinking I use the red glasses that come with it. Reasonable?



Ghidrah said:


> Example
> Shoot from "1X", "P" = points of -0- line. I would then move to the backyard and shoot off P1 from 2X to the remaining available points. {/QUOTE]
> 
> So, -0- becomes like a baseline, a line from which all other elements are measured?
> ...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> Lets see if this works


it works for me


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Get out! Mylar is the coating on the metal tape measure helps make is slippery when junk gets stuffed in the case. If you have a prob with the tab, you can always hold the tape at "1". If you let the tape snap back you can bend and or damage the tab, it moves the thickness of the tab itself for inside and outside dimensions.



> Good! Could I say that you measure but use the story pole to ensure the accuracy of your measurements?


Sort of once, you mark the board for starter course, windows and doors, you then measure from the bottom of the starter course to the bottom of the window sash and divide that by the 2TW. Then mark the gradients on the pole then do the same thing for the measure from the window sash to the cap trim, and again from the cap trim to the freeze or soffit.

All the marks are now set and you can take that pole/board anywhere on the house match the -0- lines on the pole to the house and mark for courses.

A very good tool for this type of work, (making -0- lines) is a water level. 2 clear tubes connected to each end of a water filled garden hose. More accurate than a transit or laser at much greater distances. I bought mine for a perimeter fence job on willy nilly grades.

Jumping down to



> I'll be using this on brick without C. So, I should put up a temporary corner board? Is the corner board integral to the use of the story pole?


You are outside, real brick or brick face? Entire front of the house or smaller section. Regarding the story pole, a C. board isn't needed, (no knowing exactly what your intentions are) you'll still need to finish off the ends with something, you can't have the area between the brick and exterior of the house exposed to the weather.

Know that brick isn't as forgiving as wood, (fixed dimensions) If you're stopping at the corners of the house you can create a temp plumb line with a sort of batter board see pic. Put a temp at both ends of the project, once you mark both temps with the story the courses can also be strung between the boards to keep you honest

Not knowing what your skill level is working brick, creating footings, setting keyways, mixing mortar, setting tie offs, etc. You're going to want to visit what your local building dept for code rules. They're going to require a building permit and inspection.

Allthumbs, further correspondence should probably be email or PMs so as not to upset peeps, mods and admin.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Jerry:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of the outside walls below grade and yes I put vapor barrier on the others I plan to use plastic on the ceiling for a while because it will be some time till I can put in the drop ceiling and the plastic will at least stop some of the fiberglass from drifting down. 

I am going to make the doors myself, not I do not have any drawings but will study some doors and probably draw it up myself. 

I am in the middle of cataract surgery on both eyes and surgery to correct the double vision so it will be a few months till much happens in the basement.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

xplorx4 said:


> Most of the outside walls below grade and yes I put vapor barrier on the others I plan to use plastic on the ceiling for a while because it will be some time till I can put in the drop ceiling and the plastic will at least stop some of the fiberglass from drifting down.
> 
> I am going to make the doors myself, not I do not have any drawings but will study some doors and probably draw it up myself.
> 
> I am in the middle of cataract surgery on both eyes and surgery to correct the double vision so it will be a few months till much happens in the basement.


Good luck with the surgery and a speedy recovery.

Allthunbs


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