# Drawer lock router bits - size?



## tdale (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm looking at two similar drawer lock bits, Katana and Amana. They are basically the same, but the Amana is a 1" diamter, and the Katane is a 2" diameter. 

Seems like they can do the exact same job, and they cost the same... any advantages of having the largest one? I have a Triton 3,25Hp router, so it should be powerful enough for both. 

Drawer Lock Router Bits - Toolstoday.com - Industrial Quality Carbide Tipped Router Bits

Katana® Dovetail, Glue Joint, Drawer Lock, Lock Mitre Router Bits and Jointmaker Set


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

hello!
IMHO:
Apart from cutter quality, the bigger the better.Geometry.
Simply if you see the circle cutting one small , one big circle
the small circle will go out of the wood more perpendicular to the wood.
Then more perpendicular will lift fibers more then the big one witch stays more parallel.
On shapers there is 50mm axis and around 100mm (4") cutters,even for a tiny mortice, it makes a better cut.

Regards


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I like the small ones, you don't want to rip out a ton of stock on the end of the boards and no need to do so for a simple joint like the drawer lock ..

1 pc 1/4" Shank Drawer Lock Joint Making Router Bit | eBay

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tdale said:


> I'm looking at two similar drawer lock bits, Katana and Amana. They are basically the same, but the Amana is a 1" diamter, and the Katane is a 2" diameter.
> 
> Seems like they can do the exact same job, and they cost the same... any advantages of having the largest one? I have a Triton 3,25Hp router, so it should be powerful enough for both.
> 
> ...


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!
Bobj3 said:

"I like the small ones, you don't want to rip out a ton of stock on the end of the boards and no need to do so for a simple joint like the drawer lock .."

I can't get what you explain here:
"rip out a ton of stock on the end of the boards"

The bit you are showing is just making the same cut after all...So What?

Regards


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

No need to swing a tank of a bit ( 2" OD the norm.) to do a small job when a 3/4" OD bit will do it just fine. IMHO:

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ggom20 said:


> Hello!
> Bobj3 said:
> 
> "I like the small ones, you don't want to rip out a ton of stock on the end of the boards and no need to do so for a simple joint like the drawer lock .."
> ...


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!

Just cutting geometry is better with bigger Diameter.
By the way a 1/4 shank bit is quite weak i don't buy them any smaller than 8mm.
1/2 " shank is not too big.

Regards.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerard

" Just cutting geometry is better with bigger Diameter. " = IMHO I don't think so
I have tons of 1/4" shanks bits and they are just fine, in the states you would hard press to find any bits in the 8mm size just not the norm here.

1/2" bits are fine but many fixtures need the 1/4" shank bits,i.e. many dovetail jigs use a 1/2" guide and you can't use a 1/2" shank bit for that type of setup.

Many go over the hill with big bits and big routers many times you just don't need to use them. IMHO,,, many wood workers only have 1/4" shank router and get put off by everyone saying you must have 1/2" router and bits to do anything with your router, it's just not so..  you can use a small trim router just like the big ones and the 1/4" shank bits are strong ,they would not make or sale them if are going to get hurt with them..or to say not for long..

see below to make my point clear
http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/30226-panel-doors-1-4-router.html

So to say bigger is not always better IMHO

but that's just my 2 cents 

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ggom20 said:


> Hello!
> 
> Just cutting geometry is better with bigger Diameter.
> By the way a 1/4 shank bit is quite weak i don't buy them any smaller than 8mm.
> ...


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello bob, seen this panel work !
Nice job !
Maybee sometime I did push a bit too much and broke some 1/4",
Thats why not using them now. Personal tendency to a big feed-rate.
IMHO:
About geometry, the bigger the bit the bigger the take-off, job can go faster.
Made a little drawing at lunch- time:
A 3/4 bit will but a 90 % in lifting fibers
a 2 inches will put 60% in lifting force. 

All with a 2/10 " take.Reducing the take will be more likely 
to be necessary with small bits.

Regards


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

I will agree with bobj3 i have and use 1/4" bits for my dove tale gifkins jig and lot's of other thing's and also have some 1/2 shank also but most of the time the 1/4" is in the routers . Also i havent broke a bit of any size in 50 yrs of saw dust. Must be doing it right and the project's come out . I am retried so the extra 10 min on lunch doesn't matter to me. good luck


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## ARCJR (Feb 9, 2012)

Rockler has one on sale for $19.99, free shipping on orders over $25


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Gerard, I tend to agree with you at least in theory. The larger diameter bit should be less likely to cause tear out. Not sure how well it works out in practice, though!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerard

I see your point but what do you think about the bits below ?, one is very safe to use and one is not and they do almost the same job one with a back cutter and one without it..one takes ton of power and one will not need a tank router to do the same job and the Vert.ones can be run at a higher speed to get that nice cut in one pass .. 

By the way I never broke a 1/4" shank bit off ,,my share of 1/8" cutter ones, a user error on my part I'm sure..

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ggom20 said:


> Hello bob, seen this panel work !
> Nice job !
> Maybee sometime I did push a bit too much and broke some 1/4",
> Thats why not using them now. Personal tendency to a big feed-rate.
> ...


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!

Well the theory is easy to verify:
Use a table saw,some 1/2" or so piece of wood .

make the cut with the blade out-going just 3/4" of the table.
Make it again with the blade at full extension,mine would go more than 2".
now you a big blade making a bad cut, cause of bad cutting angle.

The litle drawer-lock bit can do a neat cut, it's only a matter of taking less each pass.

1 pc 1/4" Shank Drawer Lock Joint Making Router Bit | eBay

It says:
"C2 Carbide Tipped - Micro grain grade provides increased strength and utmost resistance"

They're Cheap and probably chinese, some are good, some not, did you try those ?

Good remark about panel bits.
Nice vertical panneling bits, did'nt use them because of the making of the sled-jig .
Got the usual big tank.Truely a bit frightening when spindles.

Can't see much from the picture, but quite interesting jig.
Is there a makin off for that jig ?

Regards


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Good discussion 
Not sure how much the geometry Gerard mentions effects the cut
bigger biit more resistance ? 
more resistance material wants to climb? 
just asking to learn
No mention which one cuts cleaner.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Bill, there should not be more resistance with the larger bit. The only point of contact at a proper feed rate should be the cutting edge. The biggest advantage is the larger bits cutting angle is closer to parallel so should be less likely to tear of chunks. Turning at a lower speed reduces cuts per minute, so needs slower feed rate for same cut quality I suppose. Whether all this makes a noticeable difference in real life is the big question.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerard

did you try those ? " = yes, it works better than the big ones, I and 18,595 others say the say about his bits, Great bits, see his feed back score...

Note
Here's a good one posted by John, note the smaller drawer-lock OD bit in the router table..it's true you can use the bigger bit but you will have a bigger hole that you must jump over, just a safer way of doing the job. 

http://www.routerforums.com/274590-post9.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ6u9YH1fBI&feature=fvsr

By the way I have been using the zero insert way for a very long time with the swing fence setup. 
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ggom20 said:


> Hello!
> 
> Well the theory is easy to verify:
> Use a table saw,some 1/2" or so piece of wood .
> ...


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> Bill, there should not be more resistance with the larger bit. The only point of contact at a proper feed rate should be the cutting edge. The biggest advantage is the larger bits cutting angle is closer to parallel so should be less likely to tear of chunks. Turning at a lower speed reduces cuts per minute, so needs slower feed rate for same cut quality I suppose. Whether all this makes a noticeable difference in real life is the big question.


Hello!

*New thing*! you said:"Turning at a lower speed reduces cuts per minute"
right that keeps cutting edge the same cutting speed.

2x diameter then 1/2 rpm then 1/2 feed speed.
That calls for 2x more cutting edges on 2x diameter cutter.
say 1 inch 2 edges , 2 inches 4 edges.

Regards.

*Thanks to bob *too, I' ll give a chance to those yellow ones,
Want to buy a T slot soon, for jig making.
(There is no much choice of diameter for T slots! I' ll go for 3/4 ")


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just one more place to get the Yellow ones, he ships for free to the lower 48 states but has a good deal for the over the pond buyers too.

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==



ggom20 said:


> Hello!
> 
> *New thing*! you said:"Turning at a lower speed reduces cuts per minute"
> right that keeps cutting edge the same cutting speed.
> ...


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## tdale (Feb 18, 2012)

ggom20 said:


> Hello!
> 
> Well the theory is easy to verify:
> Use a table saw,some 1/2" or so piece of wood .
> ...


The small one, may do the job just as good, but your comparing is not correct. In your example, the different cutting angle is caused by different cutting deapth. But with the router bits, the deapth is the same, but the radius of the bit is different, making the cutting edge move more parallell to the fence than with a smaller bit. 

A better way to compare, would be to use a 5" blade and a 10" blad in your saw, with the same cutting height. The bigger blade would have a better cutting angle, because of it's size, than the smaller one...

But maybe 1" is enough still.....

Tommy


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## tdale (Feb 18, 2012)

Has anyone any experience with Rockler bits? 

Eagle America and Katana sells adjustment blocks for this bit, which would be nice to have..


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

tdale said:


> The small one, may do the job just as good, but your comparing is not correct. In your example, the different cutting angle is caused by different cutting deapth. But with the router bits, the deapth is the same, but the radius of the bit is different, making the cutting edge move more parallell to the fence than with a smaller bit.
> 
> A better way to compare, would be to use a 5" blade and a 10" blad in your saw, with the same cutting height. The bigger blade would have a better cutting angle, because of it's size, than the smaller one...
> 
> ...


Hello!
Look at my drawing, cutting depht the same!
Anyway, both works .

Regards


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

tdale said:


> Has anyone any experience with Rockler bits?
> 
> Eagle America and Katana sells adjustment blocks for this bit, which would be nice to have..


Seems easy to make your adjustment block (once it's set up  )

It will be ready for next time .

Regards.


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## tdale (Feb 18, 2012)

Sorry Gerard, I misunderstood your posting! I agree with you. Again, sorry!


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## tdale (Feb 18, 2012)

Hmm...I guess I'll go for the Katana.......


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!

Both works of course, but sure you will get a better cut.
The drawer is usually cut across the grain, then more likely to lift fibers.
I do a lot of in white pine wood then fibers lift easily, oak is easier, it lift less,
maybee that's why i care about grain and fibers and angles.

Regards.


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