# Skis... some questions....



## dan_house (Feb 18, 2009)

Ive come to see the value of having skis. so, before the next project, my next project is to fabricate the tools and jigs to make the work better and easier.

Skis are one of these items. but I have a couple of questions...
First, do you ignore their presence, and use the router as normal (and allow the skis to do their job?) Or use the Skis are the handles to move the router?

Should you put teflon tape or lube the bottom of the skis to allow them to slide around the workbench better?

is there a better/best material to make them from?

Thanx gang


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dan

Once the skis are fix to the router it becomes part of the router 

They just support the weight of the router,,the teflon tape would be a good add on item ,I did put some marks on the top of my router table..(wear marks) from the skis moving around..but it comes down to what you are going to use for the skis on..some scrap plywood works well for that job...so in that case it's no big deal..


Some like to use the skis to control the router but I like to put my hands on the handles so I can plunge the router up and down to get the job done..


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dan_house said:


> Ive come to see the value of having skis. so, before the next project, my next project is to fabricate the tools and jigs to make the work better and easier.
> 
> Skis are one of these items. but I have a couple of questions...
> First, do you ignore their presence, and use the router as normal (and allow the skis to do their job?) Or use the Skis are the handles to move the router?
> ...


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi Dan,

The "Mad-Routerman" from the upside down part of the world says it don't matter how you grasp it..... Just flip the switch and hold on for dear life :jester::sarcastic:


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

I would rather hold on to my router


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Putting your hands on the handles of the skis is the point isn't it?

I mean I can cut a million times more precisely using the handles or ends of the skis rather than the router. I could see holding the router over the skis on only a very few cases.

For example I could cut a pocket free hand for a very thin cursive letter with the skis holding the handles of the skis. No way could I cut it holding the router, even with the skis on. By moving the router from the far ends of the skis you can control small movement of the router much more precisely. I see this as one of the main benefits with the skis in the first place and exactly how I use it. It may take a few time to get used to it, once you do you will not go back.

If you are holding the router you are missing one of the best properties of the skis, precision control.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

If I had a set of ski's. I wood assume that I wood use the ski ends to guide the router as not to put any downward pressure on the router. Making the cut deeper in places. My 2cts worth.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I'm still working on a ski design that will minimize the vertical flex associated with the usual threaded rod, so I don't have skis yet. But, I could see advantages to both grip methods in different situations. For plunging, one obviously needs to use the router handles. Unless, of course, listened you to Yoda well.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Mine does not flex much at all, unless you force it. 

I have a third threaded rod that goes through the center and really helps that a lot.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

*Using the skis*

Nickao has said it all so take his advice.
From the person who introduced the skis to the forum There would be very few occassions where I would use the handles of the router, as you have more control of the router when holding the skis.

Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

OK I will bite,,I would love to see a snapshot of that Nick,,,3rd. rod...

" From the person who introduced the skis to the forum"
and just for a side note, I would love to see Tom's ski jig as well... 

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nickao65 said:


> Mine does not flex much at all, unless you force it.
> 
> I have a third threaded rod that goes through the center and really helps that a lot.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

You already saw it, it's posted somewhere here. The only comment I got was Harry saying my rods were to thin, I never got any complaints. :happy:

It looks something like this. When I find the pic of mine I will post it. Mine has a threaded rod that goes on both sides of the router and a thumbscrew allows for precision movement, but I never really use it much.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Here it is, it's a little different now, but you get the idea. I put some beefier rods on it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Nick

Looks like Tom's old one he used back in 2004 ..I think Harry made him a new ,just like Harry's ..

Now I see what you mean by the 3rd.rod.. 

I can't see how it would help with the support of the router,great for making circles maybe... 

Router Forums - View Single Post - Milling using a router
Router Forums - View Single Post - How to route 10" square in tabletop?

see picture at the bottom of the post.
http://www.routerforums.com/email-router-tips-members-only/4348-guide-bushing-chart.html

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nickao65 said:


> Here it is, it's a little different now, but you get the idea. I put some beefier rods on it.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

*Third rod*



nickao65 said:


> Mine does not flex much at all, unless you force it.
> 
> I have a third threaded rod that goes through the center and really helps that a lot.


Nick, I'm not making fun of you or your post, but when I read it I too was like Bj. I read, third threaded rod that goes through the center. I'm a little slow on the uptake here but I see now what you meant.:wacko: I couldn't figure out where the bit went with the rod thru the center. This third rod does give you more support. Now did you drill and tap the holes for the rods or where they there for something else?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

I can't see anymore support but maybe as a fine adjust of the router but why, more of a pain I think....plus I can't see how you would use that set up with a holding block or box type with a template on top of the blank stock,not to say anything about using 2" thick blank stock to make a simple box.

Nick have you every tried it out ? 

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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

As soon as I screwed that third rod in it lifted the set up perfectly flush and took the sag out of the old rails. I did not know I even had any sag until I used the center rod.

For some reason this model router had threaded holes in it and I have the rods in pretty deep, just to the edge of the hole. It definitely ads support without question and definitely helps to keep the rods perfectly level. If you sat here and played with it you would see instantly it is beneficial.

I do have monster 1/2" rods on it know and with the third rod you just can not push it down unless you force it.

I personally do not use it for circles at all, but yes I could see you tuning into a certain radius using the thumbscrew for precision. 

I use my ski a little differently and in conjunction with an excellent book I have that shows many, many uses for a ski never talked about here. I highly recommend it.

Decorative Routing Jigs and Techniques by Jack Cox.

This book opens up an entirely new world for the skis if you set up the feet like on my set up.

Imagine cutting a circular disc. Then spreading the feet on the ski jig until they ride on that disc. Now you just spin the router in a motion around the perimeter. By moving the router base in and out using the third rail and its thumbscrew, then spinning the entire set up around the perimeter disc on its feet, you can make some cool shapes and items. One I like is an elliptical scalloped tray with the Olympic rings in the center, all using this set up. I think it is chapter 7 in the book. The ellipse, scallops and Olympic rings are all made using this process. Possibly the Olympic Rings are on another project in another chapter,I can not recall, still cool.

There really is no better way in my eyes to make such small circles and arcs so close to each other and so small than using this method.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Nick, your skis are the prettiest and most complex that I have ever seen. My routers have 12mm holes and the smooth mild steel rods are about 27" long which allow a great range of projects to be completed with precision and safety.
With the router in the centre of the rods, there is no flexing even with my weight on both handles, which, by the way are not used whilst the skis are in use. When I say there is no flex, I'm not of course using a strain gauge to measure because it's wood that we're working with and we don't talk in terms of microns. For the engineering types I'll repeat previous shots of the ski ends. I have iron-on edging strip on the bottom for easy gliding.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

*The ski mode*

When I first gave some thought to giving my router the support it required it was around 1987. It consisted of a metal plate with a large slot in the middle and four supports to so take the rods. These rods were not very long and therefore the design I had produced had to be upgraded. 

My second set of skis were produced in 1990s where a piece of material was secured to the sides of my Jig Holder with the rods resting on these supports, this required a different size material for each project as they varied in size, depending on what I was doing at the time. This metod I used for a number of years. 

It was also possible to simply rest the rods on the sides of the jig holder if the material was small enough. With the help of a colleage of mine we designed a metal set (possibly the set that Bj was making reference to) they would have been produced in the late 90s just before I retired from my cabinetmaking business, I had produced the latest design that I have submitted to the forum, again just before I retired and that is the set I have been using up to this day.

The use of the skis will introduce new routing techniques and also SAFETY when using the router. I know when I was teaching at the Association for the blind the members had great satisfaction when using the skis, they were able to produce projects they were unable to produce using conventional methods.

Jack Cox (mentioned by Nickao) a wonderfull routologist (if there is such a word) who was responsible for writing many articles for the 'Routing' magazine some years ago. Personally he presented his methods in a very technical manner and I am sure many would be unable to digest what he had written. ( Some may comment, something like what I have posted to the forum). He had great skills and produced some wonderful projects, I am not sure if he is still writing the articles as the routing magazine went out of circulation here in Australia, and I think it has now ceased to exist. 

Enclosed some photos of the Sli Mode and it's development over the years.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks guys for all the pictures of the routers and the ski jigs 

I now see why you guys like to use 12mm rod, you need it to hold up the 15lb.TANK routers 3 1/4HP, in the short time I have use the ski jigs I have found out you don't need to use a big tank router to do a small jobs..a 2HP router has all the power one needs to get the job done..

My router is only 9lbs. so no need for the big rods  2 ea. 3/8"rods support all the weight..
Plus if you look at it real hard you will see the thumb screws and the nuts and washers put the load to the skis,it's hard to bend rods that are only 8' long the norm at the point of (load) contract .. 

I also see one of the routers you use will also run under water, that's a neat trick.see below..  LOL LOL 

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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I really think the flex only comes into play for the people that keep the router up when routing. I do like to rest the base on the work so flex is not that much of an issue.

The initial rods I used did present a little flex when I spread the feet all the way out to the ends, now I have additional 3/8" and 1/2" rods I can switch out when I need to, they are overkill for the DeWalt 2 HP I have on it now.

I was in a situation where I had a 42" item and I wanted the feet spread out beyond the work as opposed to on the work so I bought some really long rods and that is where I definitely saw the need for the 1/2". That is a huge spread for the skis, but it worked great.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, how many cars do you have? I suppose one for local journeys on your own, one for taking the family on long journeys and another for carrying lumber. But if you had ONE big car you could do all of these things, in a similar way, a BIG router can do small jobs but a SMALL router can't do BIG jobs, nuff said!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I think it comes down to the right tool for the right job  nuff said!

I don't need a 2 lb. hammer to put in a tack or a finish nail, but if that's all you have WELL  nuff said!


Ping/Pong
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harrysin said:


> Bj, how many cars do you have? I suppose one for local journeys on your own, one for taking the family on long journeys and another for carrying lumber. But if you had ONE big car you could do all of these things, in a similar way, a BIG router can do small jobs but a SMALL router can't do BIG jobs, nuff said!


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## dan_house (Feb 18, 2009)

Dr.Zook said:


> If I had a set of ski's. I wood assume that I wood use the ski ends to guide the router as not to put any downward pressure on the router. Making the cut deeper in places. My 2cts worth.



Exactly why Ive seen the reason to build a set.

Was Cutting out a channel, piece started out wide, and as the channel got to its final dimension, I had effectiverly cut the router base support out from under myself. as the channel got wider, the router "rock" up and down cutting deeper, or onot, but in the end the piece was pockmarked from the router moving


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

" Originally Posted by Dr.Zook View Post
If I had a set of ski's. I wood assume that I wood use the ski ends to guide the router as not to put any downward pressure on the router. Making the cut deeper in places. My 2cts worth."

If the base of the router is on top of the template it can't go any deeper, if you use the skis to move it around and the base of the router is up off the template it can dip down now and then  all it takes, is you put your hand on the router to turn it off or on you will have a dip spot or a nasty nick..I just about always lift the router up and then power it down and I can't do that with my hands on the skis.. 

Just my 2 cents 

To me it's like driving a bike ,,I want my hands on the controls and I don't want to steer it from the side car so to speak 

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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Nick,

Very nice job with your ski jig.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I can't take credit, it's a ready made from Trend.

I bought some parts off a guy on eBay a long time ago and never opened the box. Then a few months ago I opened it and realized what it was! I paid like 33.00 and Trend sells it for like 145.00!

I have added a few different Rod thickness that reach up to 48" and some additional spacers and such, but that's about it.

The notched plastic feet really allow for a lot of neat things to be done with it, whether circular or straight work. They can be flipped upside down for different uses.

I also like the spacers to adjust the height, for my needs it is better than the other method shown throughout the forum. It's very simple and fast to get the rails perfectly horizontal and at the same height using them.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

*Routing in the Ski mode*



bobj3 said:


> Thanks guys for all the pictures of the routers and the ski jigs
> 
> I now see why you guys like to use 12mm rod, you need it to hold up the 15lb.TANK routers 3 1/4HP, in the short time I have use the ski jigs I have found out you don't need to use a big tank router to do a small jobs..a 2HP router has all the power one needs to get the job done..
> 
> ...


Bj
I see from your photograph why you use the handles of the router as you slide the router on the rods.

*This was not the original idea of using the skis when they were first designed. *

As you can see in the other photograph of mine posted with yours the router is allowed to traverse round the object. Yes the rods were rather long and could 'flex' if they were not resting on the project. It is a good idea to have a selection of rod lengths for a variety of projects, these were the only two I took with me when I was making a presentation, and I was able to introduce people to the use of the skis while I took the photograph (under water) :sarcastic: funny Bj. In my experience the longer the rods the more control you have of the router, (*within reason of course.*) select the length to suit your need.

*Note to members.*
Just a final comment on Bjs photograph. What he has shown is not the way the skis were designed if you are to rout into the surface of the material as seen in the photograph. 

By all means use the design for your own purposes but do not try to convince others that this is how they should be used. The router is fixed to the rods and the whole assembly moves as one. Yes they can be used as Bj has presented if you were in the process of 'planing' a slab of material flat.

Others have extended the lengths of the rods to rout larger material. With the base of the router resting on the project there will be less chance of 'flexing'. I have three different sizes of rods which I use on a regular bases.

Make yourself a set of skis and this will introduce Greater safety awareness with the use of the router. 
*Another process that is easier to use in the hand held position and not in the router table*.

Template Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

" Bj
I see from your photograph why you use the handles of the router as you slide the router on the rods."

I don't side the router on the rods Tom when it running..the router is locked in place with the wing screws on the router..
I took a look at the picture I posted and I can see why you think I move the router on the rods,,,but it's not true,, in the picture I do one side then move the router over and lock it in place and then do the other side and then pop the block out and reset it so I can do the same thing to the other side of the block,,,I use the ski jig in many ways like putting in slots,,,and I use the base board as a guide along with the ski guides.

Tom take the time and take a peek in my gallery and you will see all the ways I use the ski jig,not all but many of them... it can take a bit of time I have just over 6,500 pictures...

The rods I have on mind are 28" long the norm but I do have 3 sets of rods, from 18" to 42" long.


" Note to members.
Just a final comment on Bjs photograph. What he has shown is not the way the skis were designed if you are to rout into the surface of the material as seen in the photograph. "

I don't get it Tom,, " rout into the surface " ????????? ,,I must get a AU Dictionary..

Tom did you take the time to read the other posted items...like the one for Dave ..

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> I think it comes down to the right tool for the right job  nuff said!
> 
> ...


Not a very convincing analogy Bj. With a large router I have performed very delicate tasks like miniature hinge cut outs and inlays on small boxes, all the time having a perfect view through the the huge opening. When a person can only afford ONE router, I tell them to make it a BIG one, would you not agree with that Bj?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I don't agree on that one.. a 2 to 2 1/4 HP will do 95% of the router jobs, But if the end user is going to make cabinets and use the big bits then he/she needs the 3 to 3 1/4 HP router with VS.. eh


Ping/Pong eh
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harrysin said:


> Not a very convincing analogy Bj. With a large router I have performed very delicate tasks like miniature hinge cut outs and inlays on small boxes, all the time having a perfect view through the the huge opening. When a person can only afford ONE router, I tell them to make it a BIG one, would you not agree with that Bj?


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