# SURVEY Your top 10 Bits



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

*SURVEY* for a router bit selection guide for new users...

Kindly copy this and add your response. We'll compile and tell how it turned out.

*If you were just starting, knowing what you know now, in order, which 10 types of bits would you start with? OK to add more if you wish.*



*In order of your quality perceived, which brands of bits do you like best?*



Looking forward to your feedback.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Is there a downloaded form, or just make up stuff as we proceed? 

ie
-a bunch of different sized roundovers (the more the better!)
-a nice selection of straight bits, with bottom cutting ability
-mortice bits (for dadoing for plywood panels...1/2" 5/8" 3/4" )
Those would be my 'can't do without' ones


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Spitball answer:

3/8, 1/4,1/8 round over
1/2 in flush trim
1/2 in pattern bit
1/2 and 1/4 in endmill
45 deg chamfer 
Roman ogee
cove bit.

A surface planing bit would be nice, but I wouldn't put it in the top ten

As far as bit makers go, I am not that picky. I shoot for a balance of price and quality, but also availability. I like Magnate, Centurion, Whiteside and the other "upper shelf" brands, but have had surprisingly good luck with Grizzly "purple" bits, the "wood River" bits from Woodcraft (when they are on sale), Woodline, Oldham, etc. I have had mixed results with Eagle America ( shank was undersized), and didn't like the cheap MLCS bits.

Between estate sales, wood show deals, and the like I have bits of all makes and color, and most can be made to cut pretty well.


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## chuckgray (Aug 2, 2015)

Set of round over bits, both 1/4 and 1/2 inch shanks, depending on your needs
Flush trim bit
Pattern Bit
Several dado bits

Most of my bits are Yonico which serve my occasional needs just fine.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Freeform answers will do. We would like LOTS of responses so everyone is represented.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Chuck's response reminded me about the shank size part. Yup, roundovers in both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks.
I've been buying DIMAR, CMT, and Lee Valley bits, mostly online. And the odd Freud one from my local lumberyard; their selection is really limited.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I would start with

1/2" pattern bit, this can be a straight flute or spiral flute, at least 2 flutes
1/2" flush-trim bit, if you do a lot of small projects I would also add a 1/4" flush-trim bit for tighter curves
1/8", 1/4", 3/8" round over bits
1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", straight bits and if you work with small slabs a lot that will be surfaced a 3/4" to 1" straight bit 
If you will be working with larger slabs that require surfacing I would recommend 1" to 1 1/2" surfacing bit with 1/2" shank to be used with a large router. If you will be surfacing a lot I would recommend going with an insert bit so the cutting edges can be renewed easily.
a couple of round nose grooving bits 1/4" to 1/2" if you do smaller jobs or 1/2" to 3/4" if you do larger projects
V-bits in 60 degrees and 90 degrees, if you will be doing freehand signs a 45 degree would also be nice to have.
I would also add edge treatment bits, 45-degree champer with bearing, maybe one or two ogee bits wit bearings
If you will be doing a lot of freehand signs with smaller lettering or fine details an 1/8" collet and several different1/8" shank v-bits from 10 degrees to 60 degrees.
If you want to try your hand at small inlay work I recommend an inlay set with router bushing, collar and bit, 1/8" set for the smaller inlays or 1/4" for larger inlays. This takes the guesswork out of cutting both the pocket and inlay.

I like Whiteside and Amana bits but I also buy other brands if they are sale priced and I have a use for them now and then.


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## Ed3443 (Jul 7, 2013)

I am fairly new to using a router--couple of years. I have found Infinity bits to be incredible. It is my go to. I also like CMT. Top ten bits for me would be

Flush trim double bearing 1/2" and 1/4" shafts
Mega Flush trim bit double bearing 1/2" shaft from Infinity (used as a cheap man's jointer).
Straight bit 1/2" shaft
Round over bits 1/2" shaft
Dado bits for undersized plywood 1/2" shaft
T-Slot bit
1/2" by 1/2" 14 degree dovetail bit 1/2" shaft


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

*If you were just starting, knowing what you know now, in order, which 10 types of bits would you start with? OK to add more if you wish.*

1) SC50
2) 60 degree V
3) 90 degree V
4) Carving Liner
5) Sign Bit (sm. & lg.)
6) 1/2" Round Over
7) Spiral Up
8) Spiral Down
9) Chamfer
10) 


*In order of your quality perceived, which brands of bits do you like best?*

Don't know about best, because I have a cheap set that I started with that I still use seven (7) years later, but I can't find them anywhere, and there was no name on them. However, over the years, I've evolved to using these, now.

Frued
Whiteside
Rockler

P.S. @DesertRatTom I read your instructions, Tom, as women usually do... :lol: :sarcastic:

Forgive my lack of detail in comparison of the others. Of course, everyone knows I use my router(s) for signs. These are the bits I use the most when making them.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

It seems that I use the round over bits more than not. I have them in 1/4 and 1/2 inch shank. And since I have a dual router table, I keep a flush trim bit in one router, and a 1/8th inch round over bit in the other. If I need to, I switch the 1/8th out for either the 1/4 or 3/8 inch.

3/8, 1/4, 1/8 round over
1/2 in flush trim
1/2 in pattern bit
cove bit


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Barb makes a good point that as primarily a sign maker her bit choices are considerably different than those of us who make cabinets and furniture.A separate list of basic bits for sign makers might be a good idea as we do get new members who are focused on sign making.

My basic set suggestion would be:
1/4" round over- maybe one or two other sizes but the 1/4" is perfect for 3/4" lumber
1/4" cove
1/4, 1/2, and 3/4" straight bits
Flush trim bit (probably 1/2" D)
Pattern bit (same)
45* bearing guided chamfer bit
1/4" and 1/2" round nose
Roman ogee bit for edge profiling

For early add ons I would recommend a slot cutter set with 4 cutters plus spacer and shim pack and a rabbet sett with different size bearing set.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Further to Charles's comment, a lot of those elegant profiles are really aimed at old furniture and moulding styles. If you aren't doing that, then they're likely never going to get used. Which takes us back to that recurring discussion about buying "sets' instead of individual bits. 
If you look at a particular set, and you can find say 75% of them as being on this survey then it's probably really good value, quality aside. If it's loaded up with ogees etc. then maybe not so much...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is an example of a rabbeting bit that comes with various size bearings. This allows one cutter to cut rabbets in different sizes. A little expensive, but you only have to buy one set.

https://www.rockler.com/freud-rabbe...YhkTopzf5xYYXieszIbDClAiaiymkd7RoCqmoQAvD_BwE


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a difficult time picturing the profile a bit will cut. So I keep a Sommerfeld catalog around because it shows both the bit and the profile it cuts. I think that would be a good step for anyone, order a bit catalog with profiles.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> I have a difficult time picturing the profile a bit will cut. So I keep a Sommerfeld catalog around because it shows both the bit and the profile it cuts. I think that would be a good step for anyone, order a bit catalog with profiles.


The Lee Valley online catalogue has been dramatically changed...don't think I like it much.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/power-tool-accessories/router-bits?query=&resultOnPage=12&page=1&categoryId={E9CDD2D8-FAD5-4287-9143-DA20BC0DC473}&sortBy=default&includeCategories=false&dataItem={CCF16E47-16D8-4F1C-AC6A-936DFE31CEA3}

I can`t make that link work either. Not sure why. 
Charles


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*https://www.toolstoday.com/t-routerbitglossary
https://www.toolstoday.com/v-14684-tt-poster.html
https://www.amanatool.com/products/router-bits/profiling-router-bits.html
https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/ten-basic-router-bit-profiles-3536408
https://www.cmtorangetools.com/na-en/industrial-router-bits
https://www.highlandwoodworking.com/router-bits.aspx*


.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> I have a difficult time picturing the profile a bit will cut. So I keep a Sommerfeld catalog around because it shows both the bit and the profile it cuts. I think that would be a good step for anyone, order a bit catalog with profiles.


I used to keep a couple of digital catalogs partly for that reason. I know from newbie comments I`ve seen that they often can`t either. The fact is many of those profiles we see when we look at furniture or trim work, we just don`t realize it.


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## ScottyDBQ (Jul 5, 2008)

1/4 and 1/2" round-over
3/8" carbide spiral up cut
Ogee 
1/2" pattern bit
1/4 and 1/2" flush trim 
1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 plywood dado (undersized) 

Most of my bits are from Grizzly, although I have CMT and Freud – one each. I also have some Woodcraft bits and some Carb – Tech bits. I have both quarter-inch and half-inch shaft bits. I also have some Craftsmen HSS and carbide bits, both quarter-inch shaft, that I got with my 1st router years ago. There is a noticeable difference between the HSS bits and the carbide bits from any of the other manufacturers. For the amount of routing I have done, all of the carbide bits perform well enough for me.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

@Stick486 @harrysin

I"ll get back with you guys when I really give a crap who has the most router bits!!!!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@harrysin

That's quite a collection you have there. The point of the post was to survey members for a list of basic bits a router newbie might do well to have from the beginning. Something of a just the basics shopping list. I've collected a lot of bits over the years, including a few I bought because I was amazed actually exist, that I have yet to use. There was a time not long ago where I had lots more cash than I do now and I bought a few things just because I could.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

There's a rumor that you can't take 'em with you.
Harry; Stick has posted enumerable pics of his tools and storage solutions over the past years. I'm not wasting my time looking for the uploads, but they're there. I don't understand how you could have missed seeing them(?).


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Once upon a time there was a pot...it was full of some liquid that was in layers. It had been that way for years. Every once in a while people would stop and look at this beautiful pot. Since it was see through material, it was easy to see the layers of beautiful, shiny, fluorescent colors.

The layers would swirl and create beautiful waves of colors in the areas where the layers met. Directly behind the pot hung a large bright silver spoon locked in a clear glass container. This, of course, was intended to keep the beautiful spoon from being contaminated by the environment. It was inlaid in beautiful wood with light and dark swirling grain. The finish was mirror shining, almost blinding. 

Alongside the pot was a caution sign. This puzzled the visitors as they could see no reason for such a caution to be connected to this beautiful pot. The sign read "Do Not Stir the Pot in an Attempt to Create Better Looking Swirls".

Visitors could not understand why such a caution was there but none dared to consider it for decades.

One day an elderly gentleman had a vision. If he could simply dip the spoon in the pot and coat the spoon with the vibrant colors that were in the pot, it would truly look magnificent. He wondered what the perfect angle would be to dip the spoon as the layers in the pot swirled in different directions. After much study and consideration the gentleman opened the container holding the spoon and carefully positioned the angle of entry into the pot. He slowly started to dip the spoon and immediately the swirls between the first and second layer changed. Some of the brilliant colors in between the layers slowly started to develop taller and longer swirls between the layers.

He immediately pulled the spoon out and realized that the layers returned to their original configuration but the spoon had been layered with a magnificent and transparent blue and yellow mixture of swirls at the tip. He thought that if he continued he would see even more miraculously transformed colors and finish on the spoon.

Being an impatient type, he forgot all his study and just grabbed the spoon and stuck it all the way into the pot and quickly pulled it out. How magnificent it looked and he felt rewarded for his thinking.

He concluded that if he stirred the pot the spoon would look even better and so would the layers in the pot. And so he proceeded...

To his dismay, the pot turned a cloudy yellowish color and the spoon's beautiful wooden inlay was forever covered in the same disgusting color.

Moral of the story...? DON'T STIR THE POT...you're very likely to get it all over yourself...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Harry and Stick, cease and desist and stay on topic. Just to be clear THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Harry and Stick, cease and desist and stay on topic. Just to be clear THIS IS NOT A REQUEST.


yessir...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"DON'T STIR THE POT..."

But it livens up what has become a rather dull forum compared with years ago. That is the main reason why so many members who were regular knowledgeable posters became disillusioned and moved on. I know because I'm still in touch with many of them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Now it's just annoying.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> "DON'T STIR THE POT..."
> 
> But it livens up what has become a rather dull forum compared with years ago. That is the main reason why so many members who were regular knowledgeable posters became disillusioned and moved on. I know because I'm still in touch with many of them.



Thanks, Harry...For your consideration, how about this...?

In the past you have announced the reason for your "liven up" posts as waking up the Forum...

Would you consider livening it up, when necessary, with woodworking "things"...?

You have started wonderful threads in the past where you have either posted some project of yours or a method or an approach, etc. You have also posted reviews of tools, how to use a certain tool, how to work with templates, and countless others that also "livened up" a slow period.

Wouldn't that be better than some of the controversial topics...? 

Respectfully submitted...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

harrysin said:


> "DON'T STIR THE POT..."
> 
> But it livens up what has become a rather dull forum compared with years ago. That is the main reason why so many members who were regular knowledgeable posters became disillusioned and moved on. I know because I'm still in touch with many of them.


Perhaps suggest to them that they watch an hour or two of daytime soap operas and then sign on to the forum. That should satisfy their need for drama and we can stick to polite and insightful discussion here.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I agree that the Forum seems to have gotten off topic a lot lately. And I wonder what would really pick things up around this joint. Health issues have kept me out of the shop for awhile, and I think that may be true of a number of old timers. The other thing I've noticed is that a lot of people who post for the first time, never seem to return. 

I suggest that one issue may be that the word games keep pushing woodworking posts down the list. I really enjoy the games so I'd like to keep playing them, but maybe there's a way to give them their own space so they don't keep appearing on the new posts list. Not sure if that's possible, or how it could be done. If you look at the number of posts on the games, it's large and a page or two a day is added.

I am a bit concerned about the lack of new project posts, and I DO like the posts on shop improvement and such. I also like safety discussions. 

I appreciate Stick's posts of large numbers of pdfs, but I also note that fairly often, other members stop posting. This lack of participation is I think, a serious problem for the future of The Forum. Nothing against Stick, mind you. His material is terrific, yet it is sometimes overwhelming and I doubt that most first time posters will plough through all of that. For example today a post asking about speeds for different sized bits elicited a LONG list of pdfs, duplicate charts and other informaiton all in one post. I don't think there was anything left to add about speed after that. There was a followup question about speed control for routers without soft start, which was answered with suggested sources of alternatives. I think the second part is what the Forum is about. The first part could be handled with a simple website with lots of links. The second part is what makes this a valuable forum.

I think one or two pdfs work better, then plenty of individual posts--even if they repeat the same material as in the pdfs. If the new poster is like many of us their vision doesn't support reading a book length series of pdfs I know that's true of me. Just something to consider.

When I joined the Router Forum in 2012 I'd had a few years of woodworking under my belt and a lifetime of doing DIY projects and repairs starting with the 1913 farm house I grew up in. I dramatically improved my skills and knowledge thanks to the likes of Harry Stick, Jerry and a number of other old timers, many of whom have passed away. 

I think we need to find ways to bring new folks into the fold. Perhaps facebook could be used to attract them, or any other social media outlet.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

We do have a Facebook site and for a while we were regularly encouraged to use it by Cricket. Whenever I log on I go to the Classic version immediately. When someone mentioned something to me about the games I had no idea what they were talking about. The games don’t show up on the Classic version. No idea why that is.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I have only been on the Forum since late 2012 (I think you joined the same year, Tom) but I don't feel myself qualified to comment on the reasons for the decline of membership or lack of posting...I'll leave that up to the guys that have been around forever. I can tell you that I'm on the Forum almost every day and I see more and more junk being posted...games, jokes, cartoons, word games, etc. The controversial topics are top of my list for not participating. Long threads covering nothing but opinion are right up there also. Some, I'm sure, have dropped below the radar because of the CNC posts (BTW, I don't agree with that). I have joined other forums and even as a member, I generally lurk until something comes up...that doesn't make me a bad member or it a bad forum...I'm still learning...

I respond mostly to those posts that ask questions that I can answer, welcoming new members and helping to troubleshoot when I can. Having said that, if a question has already been answered I typically don't post anything more in that thread unless it's additive. I assume other members feel the same way...if it's answered, what else is there to add...?

If Stick had posted only one chart and it answered the OP's question, I suspect there would not have been anymore posts anyway. In all honesty, I used to skip over your 17 post but it didn't stop me from participating in the thread...I just didn't read that particular post. Having said that, I copied your 18 post into a document and stored it along with all the others that Stick and others have posted. So I can't say all those efforts that members have put into them has gone by unappreciated. I have a whole library of documents and complete threads by subject just so I can refer to them. 

I suspect the old-time members have their own reasons for not participating. Some of it may be that there just isn't anything new to talk about. No thread is started that hasn't already been started. But members, even the oldies, patiently respond to a newcomer anyway. (The Search function "draws a vacuum")

From a newcomer's perspective it is difficult to start threads because many of them just don't know enough yet...other than the problem they may be having or looking for suggestions. I joined a forum a few months ago and I find that as they discuss products and models, I just can't contribute. I contribute where I can but I'm certainly not a super-poster like you old-timers. Besides...us newbies generally become members to learn (the old two ears, one mouth theory)

I also don't bring up certain subjects on this forum because I have learned that it only draws negative comments. For example, I've been using a RAS since about 1980 where I've ripped with it, made tongue and groove in hardwood planks, dado's and grooves and even so far as cutting coves much like has been described here with the table saw. We all make do with what we have.

To what I described above, and your own opinions and observations, I would add that pressuring newcomers to post their pics of their projects, shops and tools is a bit much. Imagine how a newcomer feels while they're starting their projects or tool shopping and we pressure them for pics...knowing they've made mistakes or feeling bad for buying inexpensive tools that they find out about only after they've been on for a bit. Yes, in lots of cases a tool is condemned with no explanation or basis. How do you suppose the new member feels about posting questions related to their tool at that point. On the other hand when a member gets a response that describes poor customer service, parts availability, quality (based on VOE), etc. I'm sure they appreciate it and will not make the same mistake. What about all the bad links that have been posted...or sent to ereplacements.com only to find their tool is not there...? Haven't you also noticed how many times an answer is just plain wrong...?

Members will come and go...others will not do as much woodworking as in the past, newcomers might feel they don't have anything to add, some will be scared to post their projects because they might believe they don't stand up to others that have been posted...lots of reasons...

I would suggest that you Forum Contributors pool your thoughts and come up with the top reasons people might not participate and put them in the form of a poll vote. Then you guys can get together and do something about "the winners"... Assuming something needs to be done..."do nothing" is always an option and sometimes it's the best option.

Just thinkin' out loud...not at all presuming I have a better opinion than anyone else...just trying to be additive.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@DesertRatTom..

over the years I've received many thank yous publicly and privately for those PDF's along w/ requests to keep them coming...
this has encouraged me to fine tune/expand them and improve availability...
(see the welcome and DC stickies)

now you tell me that answering questions is a thread killer..
this a 1st and that I should cease and desist......
oh my...
are you asking/telling me that I should join the realm of non-posting old timers???
N*W!!!

FWIW...
that annoying long list of speed PDF's are from different manufactures and covers different models of machines...
now the reader/member gets to pick the PDF that applies best to them... 
IWTB that you have benefited from my PDF's, so why shouldn't others...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Excellent comment, Nick! You put a lot of thought into that.
I couldn't find a single thing that I didn't think "Yeh; good point"


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

This place just can't help but to feed upon itself!!!!!!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

DaninVan said:


> There's a rumor that you can't take 'em with you.
> Harry; Stick has posted enumerable pics of his tools and storage solutions over the past years. I'm not wasting my time looking for the uploads, but they're there. I don't understand how you could have missed seeing them(?).


I respectfully beg to differ, as far as I can see all Sticks pictures have been pulled from the internet, I'm on here every evening and I'ts impossible for me to have missed pictures of HIS tools or projects. I hate to dig my heels in but this is TRUE.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Just thinkin' out loud...not at all presuming I have a better opinion than anyone else...just trying to be additive.[/QUOTE]'I also don't bring up certain subjects on this forum because I have learned that it only draws negative comments. For example, I've been using a RAS since about 1980 where I've ripped with it, made tongue and groove in hardwood planks, dado's and grooves and even so far as cutting coves much like has been described here with the table saw. We all make do with what we have. Until just a few years ago I relied on my radial arm saw for ripping as well as crosscut most of the time using our hardwood Jarrah. I thought that I'd never part with it but when I came across the 12" Bosch glide saw I had to have it but there wasn't space in the shed for both, so I reluctantly sold it and have missed it ever since.


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

DesertRatTom: You are to be commended for attempting to come up with some guidelines for newbies but am concerned that you really need information as to what the newbie wants to do. As a newbie, I thought sets of bits were a great bargain but for me that ended up being wrong. Buy the bits you need for a specific project works better for me. 

Roundover: (3/16"R, 1/4"R, 1/8"R, 3/8"R in order of likelihood of use)

Straight bit with bottom cutter: (5/8"D, 3/4"D,1/2"D, 5/16"D in order of likelihood of use)

Spiral Upcut: (3/8"D, 1/2"D)

Slot Cutter Set: (1/16"-1/4" in 1/32" increments) I know, I bought a set

Dovetail: (1/2"D, 14 deg)

Buy 1/2"D shank if you can afford it. I have more Freud bits than any other brand. The 2nd brand would be Woodtek (Woodworker's Supply because they are local for me). I have a few Whiteside and MLCS bits.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bfblack said:


> DesertRatTom: You are to be commended for attempting to come up with some guidelines for newbies but am concerned that you really need information as to what the newbie wants to do. As a newbie, I thought sets of bits were a great bargain but for me that ended up being wrong. Buy the bits you need for a specific project works better for me.
> 
> Roundover: (3/16"R, 1/4"R, 1/8"R, 3/8"R in order of likelihood of use)
> 
> ...


Ben, why did it turn out wrong to have started with a set of bits. I can't tell what your background/experience is in woodwork because you haven't completed your profile.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Just thinkin' out loud...not at all presuming I have a better opinion than anyone else...just trying to be additive.


'I also don't bring up certain subjects on this forum because I have learned that it only draws negative comments. For example, I've been using a RAS since about 1980 where I've ripped with it, made tongue and groove in hardwood planks, dado's and grooves and even so far as cutting coves much like has been described here with the table saw. We all make do with what we have. Until just a few years ago I relied on my radial arm saw for ripping as well as crosscut most of the time using our hardwood Jarrah. I thought that I'd never part with it but when I came across the 12" Bosch glide saw I had to have it but there wasn't space in the shed for both, so I reluctantly sold it and have missed it ever since.[/QUOTE]


I have two...8 1/4" Craftsman that I've had forever, still holds all alignments and a Dewalt 770/10"...

Glad to hear there's others out there...unfortunately, the industry is not very kind for saw blades for the RAS's...took a couple of weeks of research to find the blade(s) to my specs...slight positive/zero/negative hook, flat bottom, etc... with help from a very knowledgeable person I found the Freud Industrial LU82 and LU84 to be excellent blades...a combo and a cross-cut. I will probably dedicate one of the RAS's for dado's...

Thanks for responding...


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## Larry42 (Aug 11, 2014)

Another good place to get quality bits is Whiteside. Made in the US.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Nickp said:


> the industry is not very kind for saw blades for the RAS's...took a couple of weeks of research to find the blade(s) to my specs...slight positive/zero/negative hook, flat bottom, etc...


I think that is the reason many of us got away from RA saws was lack of knowledge and no availability of the right blades at the time they were popular and using the right blade is essential on them just like it is on miter saws.

Another point on router bits. I was talking to an uncle who is a professional woodworker and has been for about 50 years. He was machining some western red cedar which has notoriously hard and brittle knots. He had bought a Freud to do the job with and it chipped right away. He then bought a cheaper bit that had C3 carbide instead of C4 like the Freud and was able to finish the rest of the fairly lengthy run with no issues. C3 is softer and less brittle than C4 carbide and could tolerate the cedar knots. So the highest quality bits are not always the best tool for the job.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I think that is the reason many of us got away from RA saws was lack of knowledge and no availability of the right blades at the time they were popular and using the right blade is essential on them just like it is on miter saws.
> 
> Another point on router bits. I was talking to an uncle who is a professional woodworker and has been for about 50 years. He was machining some western red cedar which has notoriously hard and brittle knots. He had bought a Freud to do the job with and it chipped right away. He then bought a cheaper bit that had C3 carbide instead of C4 like the Freud and was able to finish the rest of the fairly lengthy run with no issues. C3 is softer and less brittle than C4 carbide and could tolerate the cedar knots. So the highest quality bits are not always the best tool for the job.



Oh, so right, Charles...going back through Dewalt RAS history, a gentleman by the name of Wally Kunkel (Mr. Sawdust) worked with Forrest to create the Woodworker I blade specifically for the RAS because there were not many available. While there are plenty of blades available for miters, most are in the 15deg positive hook/ATB...for my purposes I needed Flat/TCG...that's how I got to the Freud Industrial blades. Even those are slightly more positive hooked than I would like. When I found the right neg hook blade it was also ATB. I need the flat bottom to sneak up on dado's/rabbets, shoulders, etc... Kunkel says the same...people just didn't know because they were not trained. He spent a lot of time (he worked for Dewalt) training buyers (mostly commercial shops) to safely handle the machine. I had started another post with a video of Dewalt's part in WWII...

You know the old saying...? Grasshopper, “The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm.” (Confucius) :grin:

...and other variations...

Interesting...I wonder if it was a one-off or if there's real value in planning ahead with different grade bits depending on the wood...  ...one for hardwoods and another for softwoods...hhmmm...

I'm guessing if we were to bring Freud into this they would say it's a one-off or whatever else they might suspect...


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

Harrysin: There are two reasons the bit sets have not worked for me:
1. The bit sits I purchased tended to be of poorer quality, which I did not learn until after I purchased them.
2. If I purchased a 10 bit set, only two of them get used and the remaining 8 become shop clutter.

I frequent widow tool sales and it is fairly common to see bit sets for sale and only a few of a given set have been used.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ben; yup, that's the pivotal point of this ongoing discussion. So many of the bits in most sets are for ornamentation. That's not a bad thing if you're into making replicas of period furniture, but not a lot of us are, I'm guessing.
I have two better quality sets which have very practical bits in the selection; lots of straight and mortise pieces.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bfblack said:


> Harrysin: There are two reasons the bit sets have not worked for me:
> 1. The bit sits I purchased tended to be of poorer quality, which I did not learn until after I purchased them.
> 2. If I purchased a 10 bit set, only two of them get used and the remaining 8 become shop clutter.
> 
> I frequent widow tool sales and it is fairly common to see bit sets for sale and only a few of a given set have been used.


The whole idea of recommending bit sets for beginners is so that they can experiment with all the different bits and even if they eventually by a few expensive ones in the future, they still have all the others for occasional use, knowing what the resultant profile will be. I'm sure that some beginners will never go beyond routing fancy edges but hopefully many will realise from my many photo-shoots that there is far more to routing than edging on a router table. Take for instance this project.


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