# Beginner needs help finding bits!



## SuperSpec (Jun 7, 2017)

Hello everyone!

I have a few questions about finding an appropriate router tip to inlet barrels for custom muzzle loading rifles. 
To start off I have almost no experience with the terminology of router tips and I do not want to buy a tip that cuts differently than I interpreted. I have some experience woodworking and plenty of experience with power tools so I am not a complete dope, haha! 
So here's the problem I am facing. 
I need to inlet an octagonal barrel. I am unable to find any (maybe you guys know where to find one?) octagonal cutting tips for a router so I need to improvise. 
The total with of the barrel is 15/16 and each octagon flat is 3/8" wide, so I should be able to cut that with a (I THINK its called mortising) straight cut bit to the appropriate depth and then use a 45 degree angle bit at 3/8 to get the oblique (angled) octagons. 
What is a a straight 45 degree bit called? 
IF anyone has some other ideas please put them forth! I am always open to hear other's ideas and adapt. 

Thanks guy!


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. The 45* bit is usually called a chamfer bit. It also comes in other angles. Most have a bearing on the tip but you want one without. You can remove them and grind off any projection. Try searching the major bit makers like Freud, Cmt, Whiteside, and Amana. They have the largest selections and all have online catalogs.

Whiteside will also custom make you a bit to your specs, for a price of course. One other option is to use a mouldings head on a table saw. Corob Cutter could grind you a set of cutters that would allow you to make the profile in one (the custom Whiteside bit would too). The problem with most stock chamfer router bits is that they will be too wide so look at the bit specs carefully.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

magnate.net also does custom grinds


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

SuperSpec said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> I have a few questions about finding an appropriate router tip to inlet barrels for custom muzzle loading rifles.
> To start off I have almost no experience with the terminology of router tips and I do not want to buy a tip that cuts differently than I interpreted. I have some experience woodworking and plenty of experience with power tools so I am not a complete dope, haha!
> ...


First of all the angle is not 45deg. but more like 67.5 degrees if I am not mistaken.
Octagon - math word definition - Math Open Reference

If I understand you correctly, you want to cut a groove for the barrel in the stock, and have one flat spot on the barrel at the bottom of the groove, then a 67.5 degree cut on each side degree sloping cut on each side of the flat. That would only give you 3 flats in the stock. If you wanted more it gets complicated. 
This bit would give you the correct angle :
https://www.amazon.com/135-degree-router-bit/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n:228013,k:135 degree router bit

That said, and not being a gunsmith, I would cut a half round slot and use Epoxy to bed the barrel. For one reason, if the barrel is attached to the receiver exactly with the octagon centered on the axis of the receiver,it will match the octagon cut out, but any little bit rotated off center will cause the barrel not to seat right in the stock.
Just my 2 cents.
Herb


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Like Herb, I'm not a gunsmith, but a thought occurs to me (that alone is frightening  ).
Doesn't the barrel heating up introduce possible distortions
from too close contact with the stock?


----------



## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

I doubt you will find a router bit to completely do what you want. Might be able to "rough in" the barrel channel with a router, but fitting the barrel channel to the barrel requires specialized tools.

For bedding a barrel, the stock makers that I knew and those who did stock work for me utilized barrel bedding tools to fit the barrel to the barrel channel. Brownell's has them for both round and octagon barrels:

GUNLINE OCTAGON BARREL BEDDING TOOL | Brownells


----------



## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

When I was in high school I worked for an old time gun smith. This was the late sixties. When he fitted wood stocks to rifle barrels he used a pear shaped bit 1/2 to 3/4 inch wide in a hand electric grinder. He just bussed the center out. We used micro bed an kind of an epoxy mixture in the wood stock. We then coated the metal barrel and action with Johson&Johson past wax. You then mounted the barrel in the wet stock. The wax kept the barrel from sticking. The gunsmith was a believer in 8 pounds on the tip of the stock so we added a weight hanging off the end of the stock until the micro bed dryed. The micro bed will take shape to the barrel and action. These were all high powered rifles not black powder.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Ray Newman said:


> For bedding a barrel, the stock makers that I knew and those who did stock work for me utilized barrel bedding tools to fit the barrel to the barrel channel.


Yup. I know one custom gun maker, and I mean big bucks custom guns. He makes stuff from scratch, including a double barrel 2ga rifle awhile back. Made everything but the brass - and that was $10 a round, for empty brass. Makes mostly BP rifles, and stocks done by hand.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Read this. Notes on Inletting the Barrel It will clarify a lot of things. It does say inletting 'can' be done with a router, but does not recommend it, too much chance of something going awry. I do love my router, but wouldn't get one near a project like a 'custom' BP rifle.

By the way, you say 'custom' rifles. What exactly do you mean by that? A kit you finish? Build just the stock? Build all but the barrel? What?


----------



## SuperSpec (Jun 7, 2017)

Wow guys thanks for all the responses! Ok I realize I left a lot of information out so let me try to fill in any questions.


> Like Herb, I'm not a gunsmith, but a thought occurs to me (that alone is frightening ).
> Doesn't the barrel heating up introduce possible distortions
> from too close contact with the stock?


No not really. The slow firing rate of Black Powder guns and heavy barrel dimensions do not cause a barrel to get extremely hot. 

Also guys to all those who say to epoxy bed the stock. BP guns have to have their barrels removed frequently and are never epoxy bedded. They are simply inletted to wood.



> I doubt you will find a router bit to completely do what you want. Might be able to "rough in" the barrel channel with a router, but fitting the barrel channel to the barrel requires specialized tools.


This is exactly my plan! I just want to rough in the stock and save me a ton of time instead of chiseling it all out by hand over a week. I will do the fine inlet work with my hand tools I just wanted to cut the large channel quickly with the router.



> By the way, you say 'custom' rifles. What exactly do you mean by that? A kit you finish? Build just the stock? Build all but the barrel? What?


 I take a block of wood and use a band saw to get it to a rifle or pistol stock-like shape and inlet the lock and barrel and finish carving the stock. That's the steps now I just need to do it and the pros use custom bits on mills is what I've gathered.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

SuperSpec said:


> This is exactly my plan! I just want to rough in the stock and save me a ton of time instead of chiseling it all out by hand over a week. I will do the fine inlet work with my hand tools I just wanted to cut the large channel quickly with the router.
> 
> 
> I take a block of wood and use a band saw to get it to a rifle or pistol stock-like shape and inlet the lock and barrel and finish carving the stock. That's the steps now I just need to do it and the pros use custom bits on mills is what I've gathered.


A week? That sounds excessive. I have a friend who is not a gunsmith, but IS a very talented machinist, with a wide variety of metal working machine. He has made well over a dozen rifles from scratch, and I mean everything but the barrel - he hasn't made a rifling machine - yet. When I say rifles, I mean Winchester high and low walls, Stevens single shots, Marlin lever action, etc. And, when he does his stocks, he uses his metal milling machine to rout all barrel channels, action inlays, and so on. His work is as good, or sometimes better, then the originals. I believe he only uses metal working endmills for the wood work.


----------



## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

@ SuperSpeck Hi guy,I was in the same situation as you years ago when making a rifle stock.I didn't have a router but a friend of mine did & he routed the channel for the barrel for me.Saved a lot of time but maybe not a week.Router was more neat than my handiwork would have been & that is what I wanted.Jamesjj777746
BTW,is "guy" your name or did you mean Thanks guys?And,could you post a photo of your work when finished? thanks JJ.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of these bits from Amana would rout the sides. https://www.amanatool.com/products/...ter-bits/zero-point-v-groove-router-bits.html


----------

