# Scraper burnisher?



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

What do you use for a card scraper burnisher? I know a lot of people buy them but I have read that there is a lot of things laying around the shop I could use. What is your opinion?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

They are pretty cheap so I don't bother. Lee Valley for example sells a set of different thicknesses and the thicker they are the more roll you can form on the edge making it more aggressive. If you want something thick and aggressive you could cut up old circ saw plates or use sections of industrial sawmill bandsaw blade. It needs to be pretty good steel to work.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> They are pretty cheap so I don't bother. Lee Valley for example sells a set of different thicknesses and the thicker they are the more roll you can form on the edge making it more aggressive. If you want something thick and aggressive you could cut up old circ saw plates or use sections of industrial sawmill bandsaw blade. It needs to be pretty good steel to work.


I am talking about the burnisher Chuck.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's a post by Paul Sellers that mentions some alternates for manufactured burnishers.

https://paulsellers.com/2015/02/scraper-burnishers-that-work/

The back of a gouge is one option, I'd have to wonder if a nail set is hard enough to resist the edge of the scraper digging in or scoring the surface, but a large diameter drill bit should work. I believe that I read somewhere that a car valve could/has been used for this operation too.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Normally I will use the tang of a large file.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

My brother gave me a burnisher made from a screwdriver. It works ok, but he did a lot of metal work so I suspect it was pretty good steel. Probably was a premium item. Using a rat file handle sounds like a good option. Thanks Chuck for the discussion of thickness and aggressiveness of the scraper.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I just bought a burnisher. Not that expensive and definately gonna do what it says on the tin.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The steel in the burnisher has to be harder than the steel in the scraper Don so there are probably a few things that would work like a round file as someone else used. I have 2 and both came from LV. This one is a bit pricey but it's a good one. It was a lot cheaper I think when I bought it and it was built out of wood at the time. Veritas® Variable Burnisher - Lee Valley Tools
I also have one similar to this one. Veritas® Carbide Burnisher - Lee Valley Tools It also works well enough.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> Here's a post by Paul Sellers that mentions some alternates for manufactured burnishers.
> 
> https://paulsellers.com/2015/02/scraper-burnishers-that-work/
> 
> The back of a gouge is one option, I'd have to wonder if a nail set is hard enough to resist the edge of the scraper digging in or scoring the surface, but a large diameter drill bit should work. I believe that I read somewhere that a car valve could/has been used for this operation too.


I saw that Tom and that is what got me to thinking. I have tried several things to roll the edge over with mixed results but never a store bought burnisher.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

So here is the how to sharpen your scraper lesson from Neville, Burnishing and rolling the edge rounds it so you can't keep doing that and get a good edge the next time you sharpen it, so what you do is, every 5 times you burnish the edge to resharpen it then on the 6th or 7th time you have to file it, put the scraper in a vise between two piece's of wood and lay a fine steel file, when I say fine then I mean a very fine sharp steel file, I keep one in the drawer and only use it for this job, so you are filing it length-ways, now it will be hard to hold square as the file may only be 1 inch wide and you are trying to hold it square to a very thin edge and after a while, well a few years of practice then you will get better at doing that, so with the file and trying to hold it square then you give it a few files length wise with the file pointing in the same direction as the scraper, doing this will get that edge straight again and depending on ho rolled over the edge was then you may have to do a few more strokes of the file, but filing that way may leave a few file lines and these are bad in regard to getting it sharp again, so then you hold the file at right angles to the scraper and gently file it down the scraper sideways holding the file sideways, now don't be too hard as you just made it straight and if you dig in then you will have to file it straight again, this second type of filing is called 'draw filing' and as you are holding one end of the file in each hand with the file sideways to the scraper then its a lot easier this way to hold it dead square to the scraper, as you want that edge flat, straight and square. You will be amazed at how clean a cut you get draw filling and you can get that edge very clean with no file lines, now you put it on an oil stone.

Again you want that edge square so you can hold the scraper vertically against a 4 inch long ans 1 inch square block of wood as you run the edge along the stone a few times vertically, then lay it flat on the stone and do both sides then maybe a few more vertically. What the filing, holding the file both ways with sideways last and all the oil stone is about is getting that edge back to straight and very clean and very square, once you have that edge then it can be burnished as its a waste of time if the edge of the scraper is rolled over at the start.

Burnishing, you can use almost any piece of tool steel, I have an old 8 inch pin punch that I use and I have seen one made from an old three cornered file, he put it onto a linisher and sanded away all the teeth, he made the corners rounder and then he used wet and dry to get it very clean and polished, I did not think doing that was worth all the effort as any large pin punch will work fine but I will also say that every time I used that three cornered file then I got a very good rolled edge so I put that down to the hardness of the old file. So I lay the scraper flat and burnish the 4 flat edges, I used to do it 100 times for each of the four edges, what this does is roll the flat edge down a small amount and you need a hard tool to do that to the scraper steel, after those 400 times on the flat then I put it back into the vise between those two blocks of wood and sticking up abut 1 1/2 inches and I lay the burnishing tool as near to square as I can sideways along the scraper and I do about 20 strokes on all 4 of the edges, now be very careful you don't lose your grip and push your hand into the raised edge of the scraper, I've done it and that can hurt, you have to push down too hard as you do this and may have to hold the tool a bit onto the edge and off square to the edge, but as the edge has been so well prepared then you should feel a rolled edge form.

Good Scraper steel is like good router cutters, when I have good ones then I take the time to get them sharp, you can get clean wood shavings with a scraper made sharp this way, it takes practice to learn how to do this but well worth the effort, new scraper or old, it wont cut if its blunt and when you learn to do it this way then is takes ten minutes and its sharp again. N


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> So here is the how to sharpen your scraper lesson from Neville, Burnishing and rolling the edge rounds it so you can't keep doing that and get a good edge the next time you sharpen it, so what you do is, every 5 times you burnish the edge to resharpen it then on the 6th or 7th time you have to file it, put the scraper in a vise between two piece's of wood and lay a fine steel file, when I say fine then I mean a very fine sharp steel file, I keep one in the drawer and only use it for this job, so you are filing it length-ways, now it will be hard to hold square as the file may only be 1 inch wide and you are trying to hold it square to a very thin edge and after a while, well a few years of practice then you will get better at doing that, so with the file and trying to hold it square then you give it a few files length wise with the file pointing in the same direction as the scraper, doing this will get that edge straight again and depending on ho rolled over the edge was then you may have to do a few more strokes of the file, but filing that way may leave a few file lines and these are bad in regard to getting it sharp again, so then you hold the file at right angles to the scraper and gently file it down the scraper sideways holding the file sideways, now don't be too hard as you just made it straight and if you dig in then you will have to file it straight again, this second type of filing is called 'draw filing' and as you are holding one end of the file in each hand with the file sideways to the scraper then its a lot easier this way to hold it dead square to the scraper, as you want that edge flat, straight and square. You will be amazed at how clean a cut you get draw filling and you can get that edge very clean with no file lines, now you put it on an oil stone.
> 
> Again you want that edge square so you can hold the scraper vertically against a 4 inch long ans 1 inch square block of wood as you run the edge along the stone a few times vertically, then lay it flat on the stone and do both sides then maybe a few more vertically. What the filing, holding the file both ways with sideways last and all the oil stone is about is getting that edge back to straight and very clean and very square, once you have that edge then it can be burnished as its a waste of time if the edge of the scraper is rolled over at the start.
> 
> ...


Neville That is a great post. Thanks


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Neville, thanks for a very clear instructional post. I know the finish from a scraper is much finer than sanding. I have a really nice diamond "stone" I think will do a great job of re-flattening a scraper. I plan to use blocks of wood on each side to hold the scraper perfectly vertical on the stone. I did order the Veritas device, seems like a good choice and might help keep my hands away from that shart, rolled edge. Seems I often wind up slicing myself on things like this, old skin slices if you look at it wrong.

Veritas showed using a plastic crimper used to hold sheets of paper in a booklet format for storing and protecting the edge. Rust protection seems in order for scrapers.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@neville9999 One other question Neville, how do you sharpen a curved scraper? I would like to use them on picture frames where I want a high gloss finish.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> Neville, thanks for a very clear instructional post. I know the finish from a scraper is much finer than sanding. I have a really nice diamond "stone" I think will do a great job of re-flattening a scraper. I plan to use blocks of wood on each side to hold the scraper perfectly vertical on the stone. I did order the Veritas device, seems like a good choice and might help keep my hands away from that shart, rolled edge. Seems I often wind up slicing myself on things like this, old skin slices if you look at it wrong.
> 
> Veritas showed using a plastic crimper used to hold sheets of paper in a booklet format for storing and protecting the edge. Rust protection seems in order for scrapers.


Tom here is a good video on how to sharpen a card scraper.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> @neville9999 One other question Neville, how do you sharpen a curved scraper? I would like to use them on picture frames where I want a high gloss finish.


I have the Lee Valley "schmoo" scraper, named that after the character in Lil Abner. I use the burnisher with a handle. A file or pin punch would work too. If I was using a file I would fit it in a handle unless the file is a good sized one. I've had small chain saw files snap on me while putting sideways pressure on them.

The schmoo is quite handy and maybe my favorite scraper. By rotating it and angling it you can match quite a few curves with it and it can be used to touch up routed coves, ogees, and the like. I've never tried or needed to reflatten the edges yet thankfully.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I burnish my scrapers *this way.*


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Neville, thanks for a very clear instructional post. I know the finish from a scraper is much finer than sanding. I have a really nice diamond "stone" I think will do a great job of re-flattening a scraper. I plan to use blocks of wood on each side to hold the scraper perfectly vertical on the stone. I did order the Veritas device, seems like a good choice and might help keep my hands away from that shart, rolled edge. Seems I often wind up slicing myself on things like this, old skin slices if you look at it wrong.
> 
> Veritas showed using a plastic crimper used to hold sheets of paper in a booklet format for storing and protecting the edge. Rust protection seems in order for scrapers.


Tom, will really like the Veritas. I have both Veritas, one for the chisels/blades and the burnisher. I wouldn't trade them for anything. WARNING - be careful with the edges they are very dangerous.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Daikusan Curious about the Veritas for chisel and blades. Are you talking about the device that holds the blade at the correct angle as you roll it over the stone's surface?


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> @Daikusan Curious about the Veritas for chisel and blades. Are you talking about the device that holds the blade at the correct angle as you roll it over the stone's surface?


Yes I am talking about the device that holds the blades at the correct angle. Veritas Tools - Sharpening - Mk.II Honing Guides

I have the Veritas Mk.II Deluxe Honing Guide Set. My chisels look like mirrors and cut like the wood was butter (and my fingers to :surprise. Accidentally touch the edge and blood results. . .

I picked up a book _Japanese Woodworking Tools, Their Tradition Spirit and Use_ by Toshio Odate.
He learned in Japan to sharpen without a guide. He has no problem for those of us who do use them. 

The book prompted me to find a master and learn to sharpen from him. His work was master quality, but the blades all had crowns - not flat nor micro bevel. I could more or less duplicate his sharpening, but I didnt like it. When I was back in the States last year I picked up the Veritas guide. No more freehand for me.

There are nay-sayers out there saying, "You can not get the blade in the same positing when you need to resharpen it." I disagree. You can use the Veritas gauge to ballpark it. I then use a brass straight edge to verify the angle. *You can get it back in the same position.*

BTW the book is worth the $10-15 (used).


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I think all the worry about getting the edge perfectly square and to a precise angle is overblown. I have been sharpening free hand for years and I stop sharpening when I can shave hair off the back of my arm. Most of the time when I use a chisel I use it at a skewed angle since it slices better and cleaner that way. So if I'm using the chisel at an angle anyway then why do I need the tip perfectly square? I'm not saying that sharpening aids are a bad thing but they aren't something to obsess about and I wouldn't want the lack of one discouraging anyone from learning to sharpen. Skill comes with practice.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Chuck, your point well taken. Very few Japanese use a guide. There are a few who do use them, and the numbers who do are slowly increasing.

To me, that is normal to use the chisel, plane, or scraper at an angle. A slight variation in the square I wouldn't think would pose a problem. In fact, many of the Japanese mortising chisels are a paired set. They are out of square on purpose to clean the corners. But you do need two opposing chisels. To me the square chisel is just as easy and its one less to sharpen.

The scraper on the other hand does need to be perfectly flat the length of the card. I see no problem at all if it is out of square.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I wouldn't want my plane blades very much out of square either. There is some skew adjustment but the closer, the better. It just hasn't made that much difference with my chisels. I've looked at the Veritas set up many times but with everything included it's close to $100 and My chisels are sharp and perform well without one. I did break down and buy the brass gauge with angles in 5 degree increments to check the bevel angle with only to find out that every chisel I own was within 1* or 2* anyway.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I use an engineers square to check my chisels. I've found that once properly flattened (back) and sharpened, a few hand held strokes on a diamond stone keeps them wicked sharp. If they easily shave arm hair, they're about as good as it gets.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A good burnisher is worth the money! More for its length than anything else. You can put a hook on just about anything with the right amount of effort. Most of the time it is effort wasted! The time it takes to learn how to properly prep a scrapper is well worth it. First dozen times or so, you arn't going to get the hook exactly right, but by changing the angle of approach with the scrapper, you can catch the hook you got. 

get some blank card stock and you can shape a scrapper to your own needs. Takes a little effort, but for you guys who have a "favorite" profile router bit, a matching scrapper can save you hours when it comes to getting rid of those nasty lil burns ya get in maple and cherry..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

for you REAL diehards out there, try taking a utility knife razor blade and put a hook on it..... can't be beat for getting into those impossible to get at places!!


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> get some blank card stock and you can shape a scrapper to your own needs. Takes a little effort, but for you guys who have a "favorite" profile router bit, a matching scrapper can save you hours when it comes to getting rid of those nasty lil burns ya get in maple and cherry..


I assume you make them yourself? Cut and file to shape? I have a ton (literally) of cherry wood and would be interested in making matching scrappers. Seems to me I read an article on doing that, but I cant find it now. Would you care to elaborate?


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I think all the worry about getting the edge perfectly square and to a precise angle is overblown. I have been sharpening free hand for years and I stop sharpening when I can shave hair off the back of my arm. Most of the time when I use a chisel I use it at a skewed angle since it slices better and cleaner that way. So if I'm using the chisel at an angle anyway then why do I need the tip perfectly square? I'm not saying that sharpening aids are a bad thing but they aren't something to obsess about and I wouldn't want the lack of one discouraging anyone from learning to sharpen. Skill comes with practice.


Following the instructions in the video I posted getting it square and smooth is so easy I say why not.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Daikusan said:


> I assume you make them yourself? Cut and file to shape? I have a ton (literally) of cherry wood and would be interested in making matching scrappers. Seems to me I read an article on doing that, but I cant find it now. Would you care to elaborate?


Hey Steve...
There is a guy over in Woodnet that every now and then offers up some precut card stock. Various sizes/various thicknesses. Small and flexible to large rigid stock. His prices are very fair and the materials he offers up are excellent. 
Simply put, a small Dremel with a burr or grinding wheel to remove the bulk of material, then hand file to tweak the final shape. Flatten 3 sides, then put on the hook..


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Steve...
> There is a guy over in Woodnet that every now and then offers up some precut card stock. Various sizes/various thicknesses. Small and flexible to large rigid stock. His prices are very fair and the materials he offers up are excellent.
> Simply put, a small Dremel with a burr or grinding wheel to remove the bulk of material, then hand file to tweak the final shape. Flatten 3 sides, then put on the hook..


Bill, THANKS millions!
I will look into Woodnet. I have the Dremel, that tool makes life so much easier.

PS Is that the Woodnet Forums?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Daikusan said:


> Bill, THANKS millions!
> I will look into Woodnet. I have the Dremel, that tool makes life so much easier.
> 
> PS Is that the Woodnet Forums?


Steve.. 
yep, woodnet forums. I just went and checked my old mail looking for his name... can't find it... just post an inquiry in there... The guy is a regular and has sold a ton of this card stock. I'm sure someone will get back to ya with a name very quickly.. 

b.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Steve..
> yep, woodnet forums. I just went and checked my old mail looking for his name... can't find it... just post an inquiry in there... The guy is a regular and has sold a ton of this card stock. I'm sure someone will get back to ya with a name very quickly..
> 
> b.


Thanks


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

hawkeye10 said:


> Following the instructions in the video I posted getting it square and smooth is so easy I say why not.


The preparation for a card scraper video Don? I fully agree with that one, but card scrapers and chisels are different critters. I went back to see if there was one about chisels but I didn't see one.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The preparation for a card scraper video Don? I fully agree with that one, but card scrapers and chisels are different critters. I went back to see if there was one about chisels but I didn't see one.


Hi All, don't know if this helps, but David Marks did a demo on his show once about scraper preparation which was very informative.James jj


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The preparation for a card scraper video Don? I fully agree with that one, but card scrapers and chisels are different critters. I went back to see if there was one about chisels but I didn't see one.


I have done alot of reading, mostly from Woodsmith and WoodWorkers Journal mags. The book _Japanese Woodworking Tools, Their Tradition,Spirit, and Use_ I felt helped me the most with sharpening chisels and planes. I havent found any outstanding videos. Erne Conover [sp?] has one, it was informative. I now use four grades of wet-stones.

I thing the biggest problem is people dont flatten and polish the back and the front with the same stones as they go through progressive finer grades


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have to agree with you Steve. I didn't flatten the backs of my chisels or plane irons at first. When I did start flattening and polishing the backsides too the difference was pretty dramatic. I bought some cheap 2500 grit carbide sand paper and that's the last step for the backs. The sheet allows to stick it down on a flat surface and slide the chisel or plane around on it and that gets the job done a little quicker it seems to me. I got the sand paper from Heletia Industries if anyone is interested. Not the greatest company to deal with but the prices are good. I think they hire cheaply too so if you have a problem with your order it can take a while to get it sorted out but I eventually did get it sorted out.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I have to agree with you Steve. I didn't flatten the backs of my chisels or plane irons at first. When I did start flattening and polishing the backsides too the difference was pretty dramatic. I bought some cheap 2500 grit carbide sand paper and that's the last step for the backs. The sheet allows to stick it down on a flat surface and slide the chisel or plane around on it and that gets the job done a little quicker it seems to me. I got the sand paper from Heletia Industries if anyone is interested. Not the greatest company to deal with but the prices are good. I think they hire cheaply too so if you have a problem with your order it can take a while to get it sorted out but I eventually did get it sorted out.


Chuck,
Thanks for your input. I started a new thread on Sharpening Chisels and Blades 
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/108033-sharpening-chisels-blades.html#post1454121


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> @neville9999 One other question Neville, how do you sharpen a curved scraper? I would like to use them on picture frames where I want a high gloss finish.


Tom curved is just the same only harder to do, It is harder to prepare that square edge when the surface is curved but the importance of having the corners well prepared is still true so draw filing around the curve is the only way, the flat filing bit is to get the straight edge flat and square so you don't want that with a curved scarper, sharpening scrapers is an art, as an apprentice I got so good that all the guys just gave me their to tune up, this does work and you have to practice it to get good at it. N


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

hawkeye10 said:


> Tom here is a good video on how to sharpen a card scraper.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmNr0aj89t0


This video is good, his description is excellent so its a good addition to what I said, he has almost said exactly what I did say. What bugs me is comments that say, "I just got a new one" I see that comment about saw blades and router cutters, my opinion is that good tools are the best to buy and when you have a tool made from good steel then you care for it you don't get a new one, after all you don't toss out your grandma when she needs tune up. N


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I have to agree with you Steve. I didn't flatten the backs of my chisels or plane irons at first. When I did start flattening and polishing the backsides too the difference was pretty dramatic. I bought some cheap 2500 grit carbide sand paper and that's the last step for the backs. The sheet allows to stick it down on a flat surface and slide the chisel or plane around on it and that gets the job done a little quicker it seems to me. I got the sand paper from Heletia Industries if anyone is interested. Not the greatest company to deal with but the prices are good. I think they hire cheaply too so if you have a problem with your order it can take a while to get it sorted out but I eventually did get it sorted out.


Charles there is a process to get a tool scary sharp, if you don't follow it then you just get sharp. N


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

neville9999 said:


> Charles there is a process to get a tool scary sharp, if you don't follow it then you just get sharp. N


If I can effortlessly shave hair off with them I figure that should be good enough. I've even used mine to flatten out runs in paint. I thought I might have been the first to do that but then I saw a video by Jeff Jewitt, a contributor for Fine Woodworking say he does the same thing.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I just received the Veratas scraper sharpener and have tried it out on the scraper they provided. WOW! Really easy, nice and precise. My brother gave me a burnisher he made from a file (as it turned out), but it will go in retirement and I'll stick with the Veritas. I's nice being able to set the exact angle and being able to pull it toward me to roll the edge. I seem to have a knack for slicing my fingers open, and the Veritas will help prevent that. I have a diamond stone to flatten the scraper edge and it is obvious from the instruction why that is important. Thanks for the recommendation.

The Veritas scraper sharpener has a little dial to set the angle. Five to 8 strokes and the edge was well under way. I also bought a couple of thicker stock scrapers, which will allow for a bit more aggressive edge. I admit that I do like gadgets, and this is the third Veritas item so far. Really good quality stuff.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> I just received the Veratas scraper sharpener and have tried it out on the scraper they provided. WOW! Really easy, nice and precise. My brother gave me a burnisher he made from a file (as it turned out), but it will go in retirement and I'll stick with the Veritas. I's nice being able to set the exact angle and being able to pull it toward me to roll the edge. I seem to have a knack for slicing my fingers open, and the Veritas will help prevent that. I have a diamond stone to flatten the scraper edge and it is obvious from the instruction why that is important. Thanks for the recommendation.
> 
> The Veritas scraper sharpener has a little dial to set the angle. Five to 8 strokes and the edge was well under way. I also bought a couple of thicker stock scrapers, which will allow for a bit more aggressive edge. I admit that I do like gadgets, and this is the third Veritas item so far. Really good quality stuff.


Awesome!! Did you get the Veritas MarkII sharpening system too?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Daikusan said:


> Awesome!! Did you get the Veritas MarkII sharpening system too?


No, really do fine with what I have. I do have their router plane, which is a serious specialty item and a joy to use.


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