# "More than one piece the same size and shape"



## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

I hope this post will help me escape the category of "Old Timer "Newbie". I would believe this to be the proper place for discussing the Craftsman "Router Recreator Carving Pantograph".
Thanks to all of you who responded so Kindly to my inquires on the 'introduction' forum. Bob came through with actual Pics of an 'operational' unit in his shop. Cheers! 
I lost my first bid yesterday on one of these 'Recreators' by $0.52 at the Very last minute. Considering that shipping Alone, is quoted at $60.00, what would be a reasonable amount to have invested, overall, into one of these systems. I want to recreate wooden rifle stocks from my German synthetic stock models.
If I bid $100 as my max, and added $60, would $160 (less router) be Way too much to do what I am trying to do? with this particular piece of equipment?
OR Would I be better off using that money and building one of these Kits, ("CopyCarver.com"). Sorry for all the questions, but I am trying to see if I can make any money at this carving wooden rifle stocks for the many folks that don't like the cheap 'synthetic' plastic stocks that their $200-$400 rifle comes with. Thanks, doug,P.


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## Tale Gunner (Sep 24, 2004)

Whats your experience with the Sears unit? I read on line about this unit and it was not favorable (1.8 out of 5 stars). I guess its difficult to use and the quality control was not there according to the reviews.


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## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

*My personal experience with this 'Recreator' is Zero, and that's*



Tale Gunner said:


> Whats your experience with the Sears unit? I read on line about this unit and it was not favorable (1.8 out of 5 stars). I guess its difficult to use and the quality control was not there according to the reviews.


Why I am seeking info on this particular forum. I've only heard from two people and they were both impressed with what it could do. However I'm sure that they knew it's capabilities and it's limitations and did not exceed or expect more from this design than it is/was capable.
Believe me I've spent hours studying these photos and comparing them to $5,000 professional unit's pictorials. I study the materials used and their diameters and manner of construction.
My personal conclusion so far is that this Craftsman 'Recreator' Pantograph is probably a nifty little Home shop device for limited scope of size application, and perfectly suitable for many small scale (light weight) duplication projects.
I imagine that most 'complaints' derive from those users that expect too much all at once and 'Hog' the feed and achieve poor results. I've been using hand routers for 40 yrs and that seems to be the most common error. 
Hey if I can get this unit for under $100 to my door (shipping is $50-60) I believe that it is well worth the investment. 
Sure! I'm going to 'push the envelope' and try a rifle stock,(probably beyond it's capabilities), But I'm going to try it with Finesse, and if it fails I'm going to understand it was MY fault and not the machines, for trying to force it for an unsuitable project. 
Every tool, just like every person, has it's strengths and weaknesses. Seldom does a tool, or a person, excel All the time at Every task.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

All I can say is it's not the tool it's how you use the tool.. 
Not to much to a gun stock,,some dado's and some screw holes..



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## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

Well I went and did it! For the sum of $99.99, Delivered to my door, I should soon be receiving my Craftsman 'Recreator' router Pantograph. The owner bought it in 1991 for $167, said it was amazing what it could do and then let it sit on a shelf for the next 17 yrs. In 'like new cond.' We'll see what the USPS can do with that. My printed Pay Pal receipt shows $50 S/H but it also says "Shipping Insurance (not offered)". Of course I wasn't able to see this 'receipt' until AFTER payment was made. I e-mailed the seller before payment and inquired about insurance and possible damages during shipping. And I impatiently paid the invoice before his reply, which was the automatically generated aforementioned 'receipt'. Am I screwed ? or what are my options if the good ole boys at the Postal service 'go postal' on my box??


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi jdphill

_I'm not to sure of the one you got,,,but one said pickup only but I'm sure you will get it worked out in the end..
One of of them said no manual I do have onr if you want a copy just ask and I wil email you one... it's a big file 17mb if I recall..

I'm sure you will like the tool, it's a fun tool not a high end tool but can do many,many jobs..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150258967833
kreed04
Country Scents & Stuff 1255 W. North St. #65 Kenton, OH 43326 

dphiltex
http://cgi.ebay.com/Craftsman-Route...ryZ75680QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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jdphill said:


> Well I went and did it! For the sum of $99.99, Delivered to my door, I should soon be receiving my Craftsman 'Recreator' router Pantograph. The owner bought it in 1991 for $167, said it was amazing what it could do and then let it sit on a shelf for the next 17 yrs. In 'like new cond.' We'll see what the USPS can do with that. My printed Pay Pal receipt shows $50 S/H but it also says "Shipping Insurance (not offered)". Of course I wasn't able to see this 'receipt' until AFTER payment was made. I e-mailed the seller before payment and inquired about insurance and possible damages during shipping. And I impatiently paid the invoice before his reply, which was the automatically generated aforementioned 'receipt'. Am I screwed ? or what are my options if the good ole boys at the Postal service 'go postal' on my box??


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## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

Thanks Bob. that first link was the one I lost for $0.52.. The second link is the one I got for $49.99 + $50.00 shipping only (no insurance). I e-mailed him earlier this week and he agreed to ship it for $50. I e-mailed him again after I 'Pay- Paled' him and told him that I would pay for the Insurance because if it gets here all busted up it's no good to anybody. I have not heard back from him as of yet.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi jdphill

Sounds good,,, _if I recall you get FREE _Insurance on any item shipped by UPS up to 100.oo and anything over that is a extra charge..

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jdphill said:


> Thanks Bob. that first link was the one I lost for $0.52.. The second link is the one I got for $49.99 + $50.00 shipping only (no insurance). I e-mailed him earlier this week and he agreed to ship it for $50. I e-mailed him again after I 'Pay- Paled' him and told him that I would pay for the Insurance because if it gets here all busted up it's no good to anybody. I have not heard back from him as of yet.


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## dtoggs (Apr 24, 2008)

Good luck with the carver,I've made a couple of my own that work considerable better. If there is a way to communicate,I'd be glad to try and help you get started. The Recreator is ideal for small repros,carved items and such,but makeing a good stock (rifle ) is asking a bit much.

I am making another carver using heavy duty drawer slides-the motions are working perfectly,but I'm having a little difficulty getting the roller and waysworking properly. I can do it with angle and wheels set at 45*,but I'm experimenting with some T iron from a garage door opener-thus far,no luck. I might have to revert back to my proven system,but its a little too hot here in Ky to do any welding right now. pw


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## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

Hey 'dtoggs' thanks for the welcome. I kinda figured that the 'Recreator' may be on the light side, but it would be a good starter kit for me to 'reverse' engineer for the money. Heck the shipping costs were the Same price as I paid for the Recreator! For $50.00 it was a good example, as it shares the same design principles as the $5000 pro units. It's basically a matter of scaling up the components to accommodate larger sizes/forces and rigidity under pressure. 
One of the posters here, "KP91", gave me a link to www.copycarver.com. for plans to make a heavy duty 'Recreator'. If you haven't gone there, it's worth the $20.00 for the plans to build one and source of parts.


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## dtoggs (Apr 24, 2008)

Yep, I got the copy carver plans and I got the components to make one,but just never did. I did my own take of the terrco K-star. I had two duplicarvers and they worked well (when I did). But,they would kick back like hell when I cut too deeply! pm me and we will throughly discuss this thing... pw.


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## jdphill (Jun 16, 2008)

The 'cutting too deeply' thing may be avoidable by using some of those expensive 'cutting burrs' advertised on one of the carver web sites. It includes the cutting burr and its matching stylus pattern follower. I saw two basic types of burrs, spherical (round) and elliptical (egg shaped). 
The beauty of a cutting burr is that it removes small amounts at a time and it cuts in all directions at once. (i.e. top, bottom,& sides). A true 3-D cutting tool X,Y,&Z axis with the same bit.


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## hal37880 (Sep 27, 2010)

*Duplicating*

I use a duplicating carver made by Dakota Arms almost every day to carve rifle stocks. The key to duplication is the bit-stylus combination you use. I use a roughing bit made by Forest City tool for roughing the blank out quickly. I set up an offset from the stylus and bit of about 1/4", then about 1/16" offset for the roughing cut with a 3/4" round nose router bit. The final flush cut is with a 3/4" round bit. That's the outside only. The inlet and barrel channel are cut using 1/2" straight bits for bulk removal, 1/4" spiral upcut bits for final detail and 1/8" bits for detail work. I open the barrel channel with (depending on size) a 3/4" round nose, 1/2" round nose, or a .375 round nose end mill. All my stylus are at least 0.005" oversize. Sometimes I make the vertical cuts slightly smaller by using one or two layers of either electrical tape or for tiny amounts, teflon plumbers tape. 

Any questions about carving rifle stocks, just send me a note.

Hal


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## Mark Sternberg (Jan 16, 2010)

I picked up a router recreators at a garage sale a couple years ago. I didn't keep it very long because it was limited to very small projects. I personally don't see how you could cut a gun stock with it because it is so small. I looked at the copy carver myself and think that this might work better for what you are wanting to do. You could even increase the size of it for longer items as needed.


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## millipee (Feb 16, 2013)

One would be great for use here in Uk but there is no way we can get them over here in UK.. we probably havnt invented them yet this side of the pond!


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