# Red Oak tannin bleed and spraying Poly varnishes



## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

My wife and I have a small woodworking business doing cabinets, tables, and some woodworking on boats. My work on boats has been great and the cabinets a dismal experience. 

We have had problems on our last kitchen cabinet job with Red Oak doors. 
I used Zinsser's Seal Coat, which I have always had good luck with. I have had good luck with anything from Zinssers except their strippers. 
I sprayed on 4 coats of Crystalac waterborne lacquer following the instructions to the letter. I ended up with tannin bleed from the Red Oak and had to redo the entire job. After having the doors professionally stripped and cleaned with oxalic acid, it got rid of the tannin stains. We used all Minwax products for the rework. Wood conditioner, Natural stain, and 3 coats of Spar Urethane thinned with Mineral Spirits. The Urethane did not build much at all with 3 coats. We will have to brush on the 4th coat. 
Varathane over Seal Coat had a much greater build than just Spar Urethane. 
I have read the Seal coat can where it says "good under all finishes". 
No one seems to know why the tannin bled through. I will not use any waterborne products in my shop due to the bad experience. 
We made 300 wooden menus out of 1/8" Baltic Birch. We used Seal Coat as a base with 4 coats of Varathane. They turned out beautiful. 
I am still searching for the right finish for cabinets. I am experimenting now with vinyl sealer and nitrocellulose lacquer. 
Does anyone have some suggestions? What is the best solvent to use when spraying Urethane or Poly varnishes?


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

Welcome aboard Ben. Wish I had the knowledge to help.


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

I use a lot of red oak for furniture projects and a few cabinets. Never heard of tannin with my stuff.

I have had tremendous luck just using minwax "wipe on poly". If you are building a lot of cabinets, etc., the rub on may be too labor intensive. It is great for us old guys that have a lot of time. Try it on one of your smaller oieces and see if this will suit you!


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Howdy, Ben. Sorry I can't be of any help with your finish problem, either. 

I always thought tannin bleed was when you cut yourself on the edge of the tanning booth.


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## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

can you explain what tannin bleed is?

tannic acid reacts to ammonia but i dont know why a waterborne finish would cause a problem


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well water alone can cause tannin bleed. I wish I could see a picture because although it may have looked like tannin bleed it sure sounds like it was something else. Once you put on the seal coat I do not know how you could get the tannin bleed, unless the Sealcoat was old or all the shellac sank to the bottom, but I think you would have noticed. 

If the seal coat was defective then waterbourne could cause the tannin bleed itself. I have seen tannin bleed on Doug Fir, Cedar and Redwood, but never experienced it on Red Oak myself. Sounds like a nightmare I am glad you finially got it fixed.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Ben and welcome to the forum, we are glad you found us.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Ben.


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

No, that is when you pay your bill for the tannin' booth


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

There is no scrap, the projects just get smaller


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

water will make oak turn black due to the tannins from what I can see


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## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

i just read something that said tanin bleed is caused by excess moisture in the wood. i wonder if maybe the wood you used for the cabinets wasnt dry enough?


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

My world is shrinking


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

the cabinet company where I bought the doors said the wood was 4%. That was one of the first things I checked on.


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

I used Zinsser's Seal Coat. I have had very good luck with it in the past


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## Woodsurgin (Apr 9, 2009)

I have been thinking more about Ecclesiastes 1:2 Vanity,vanity, all is vanity


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

I have done a lot of finishing and I don't know what tannin bleed is. Red oak is like a bunch of soda straws bundled together you can actually blow through red oak(put a little dish washing soap on the end of a piece and blow bubbles). What might have happened id some of the water borne acrylic that bled back had dissolved some of the tannic acid in the oak. Any time you apply any thin finish-jncluding stain to red oak you must check it and wipe off any "bleed back" until it stops.

Regards
Jerry


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