# Review - Rockler Dust Collection Separator (Small)



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I didn't want to burden the other thread with discussion so specific, so I thought I'd make a new thread. And since one of the main reasons to collect dust is to keep it from going into those two squishy things in our chests, it went here. If you want to skip the extraneous, skip down to the bold heading.

Now, let me tell you about my current setup and why it's relevant to the review. I do all my router table activities in my shed - henceforth known as the shop. It's a 12'x12' enclosed building in my backyard, and it also houses other assorted stuff like old baby clothes, the lawnmower, garden tools...the usual stuff. So, keeping dust at bay is a pretty big priority. So much so that any sawing I have to do, of whatever sort, gets done outside.

To gather the dust and bits from my router table, I'm using a Rockler fence and D/C port, hooked up to a 6g/3HP Shop-Vac. Nothing too fancy about that.

I had been doing a pretty decent amount of projects lately, and it has been working well. But the discussion about D/C recently brought my attention to various store and DIY solutions to help extend the life of the vacuum. One of these was the Rockler unit, which can be found here. Since this is on my way home (sort of), I decided to go pick it up. I bought it with one of the shop vac adapters as well. A 5g Homer bucket was purchased from the BORG, although I had a 5g bucket from Pep Boys that would have worked as well. NOTE= 5g buckets are not equal.

I emptied out the vacuum before I started, and noticed a copious amount of dust covering the filter and in the canister. It was good that I was doing this now, or I may have ended up burning the motor at some point. I had an entire duplicate Shop-Vac still in the box from a sale, so I borrowed the hose from it to complete assembly. The Rockler unit just sits on top of the bucket, and you can use the bucket handle to lock down the top. The whole thing isn't a huge space waster, I have it under my clamp table at the moment. If I had considered it beforehand, I could have incorporated it's inclusion in my router table. Perhaps next time.

*Results*
Now, I'm not a everyday woodworker. I also didn't do a ton of testing to reach this conclusion, but I think it's representative of what I do, so I included it. I'll do a small project, if I'm lucky, once a week. This week's project was to experiment with making biscuits and to make the face for my new bench clamp (small chamfer, 3/4" indent for the mechanism).

I experienced no discernible loss in suction from the hose. The vacuum was on during routing, and after when I cleaned up any dust and bits on the table and in the tracks. Sucked everything up fine. When I went to check on the results, I saw absolutely nothing in the vacuum. Nada. Now, it's entirely possible (and probable) that dust is still finding it's way into the vacuum and filter, but it's severely reduced compared to what was still in the bucket. I have to recommend this, so far, as an absolute buy. I'd recommend this to anyone in a similar position, and I'm interested in doing a bit heavier workload to see if the results still hold, but I see no reason to why it shouldn't.

Initial conclusion: *HIGHLY RECOMMENDED*
Final conclusion: TBD

Some pictures for reference in second post.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

(The stuff in the vacuum is from cleaning out my car, not from routing)

I'm planning to completely empty and wipe down the vacuum canister later in my final conclusion.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Excellent! Thanks Chris. You've started the ball rolling.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'm going to ask others to present alternative solutions in a separate thread. With any luck, we'll be able to have a group of threads all around the dust collection issue with is dear to everyone's lungs.

Thanks again Chris.


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Good post Chris.
The only question I have with a setup like that is did you notice any loss of suction? I ask because I don't see any type of gasket between the 5gal bucket and the cover.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

None that I can tell. I'm sure you could add a bit of thin weatherstrip or tape (electrical, painters, etc) on the edge of the unit or bucket, but the bucket handle does a pretty good job of keeping it secure. Do note that the hoses/adapters do not seat 100% in the holes. Probably due to manufacturing variances.

Either way, the vacuum still works great. Even accidentally sucked up the nut to my slot cutter, which made a satisfying *thump* in the bottom of the bucket. Much easier to retrieve it in the bucket opposed to the vacuum, too. I don't know if I'll be bothered to add the tape to seal up the very small gaps at the hose connections. Performance didn't seem to be impacted at all. 

As with anything, YMMV. But for...$20 vacuum, $22 separator, $5 connector, I'm happy with it (add additional funds for second hose). I can't speak for anyone else, especially outside the US, but you'll most likely find you'll spend just as much on a second vacuum on sale than you will a second Shop-Vac/Husky/etc branded hose. I picked up my first vacuum last year for $25 on a mismark, and the second one a couple of months ago for $20 on sale because my parents needed a new hose on that exact same model. Hose was $17, vacuum was three bucks more. Didn't seem smart to not pay the difference. Parents had already bought a new hose and used it, so I just kept this one. It's currently at it's normal price of $45 at Lowes right now, so look out for a sale.

One other thing: it's probably quite possible to avoid using a second hose. If you get two more 1.25-2.5 adapters, and use a bit of elevation management (raising the vacuum), you could potentially use the rigid wand extensions to connect the separator and vacuum. Hope that came out clear.


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

Great review most useful, I just wish that I could source one of these in Europe.
The 35 USD shipping costs make it a bit steep (group order anyone?).


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

The design seems fairly simple in theory, I wonder if it could be replicated via fiberglass or a vacuum mold?


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm going to have a go at knocking one out of a green rain water barrel, 90 deg waste pipe elbow and a straight coupler out also from waste pipe (grey water).


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Chris:

Thanks for the great, informative posting! You have done a valuable service by showing us another way.

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Mark:

Following up on something posted above, maybe we should have section in the main directory on dust collection? Just an idea.

Cassandra


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

While we're making forum suggestions, a review forum would be nice as well. I have quite a few that I'd like to post up.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Chris we actually do have a tool review section.

Tool Reviews - Router Forums


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Chris, I liked your review! 

Nicely presented in a refreshingly honest perspective. 

Well Done...
thanks


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

nice revew


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## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

Nice work and presentation. One thing I have noticed in every presentation with a Shop-Vac and Separator is that the dust bag for the Shop-Vac is not in use. I can't throw stones, I did it too. Absence of the bag resulted in the filter getting clogged very quickly with the fines that made it through the Separator. I installed the premium paper bag from Shop Vac and the filted now stays clean, the air is filtered below 1 micron and the suction stays up high. The amount of fines that I get will not fill up the bag for a long time but they would clog the filter in a couple of hours.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I've only had to shake out the filter once while I've had this setup, and that's because I've sometimes used the vac without the separator. I'm not too concerned with fine particulate with a respirator.

I've recently upgraded from 1.25" to 2.5" hoses and still have a good amount of suction. I may be upgrading to a bigger container and will be making a Thein separator.


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

i use a seperator lid on a 30 gallon metal garbage can.
does great on chips, but fine dust get to my dc bags.


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

I have my Onieda Dust Deputy hooked to my shop Vacfor a few days now cleaned up a bunch of dust in shop with over a half a 5 gallon bucket full of dust and not even enough to register in the shop vac...also added a Hepa Filter to the shop vac if anything I think the Shop Vac is sucking up dust better now than before at least seems like it...I am still awaiting my dust collector delivery (should be a week or so). I hope all who are reading this will take dust collection seriously....There is alot of info on the net on this subject ...Shop Vacs are not the best answer, remember it takes 850 cuf of air to adequatly collect dust from a router table , or similar piece of equipment... But a Hepa filter on a Shop Vac will really make a serious difference and I HIGHLY,HIGHLY recommend this in any woodworkers shop .......


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I actually got good results at the table upgrading to the bigger hoses, they've made all the difference. I can actually clear the chips from my planer as well.

If there's a good bit of sound difference, I'm considering upgrading to the 14-gallon Ridgid vac, a 31-gallon trash can with baffle, and not worrying about getting a DC. Depends on how much suction I still have in a 31-gallon versus a 5-gallon. Hopefully it's negligible based on the route of the air.


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

Nice revew.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thought I would add a small update here.

I did this review with a Shop Vac 3HP/6 gallon model, and it came with 1.25" hoses. This worked well on every tool except my planer. I upgraded to 2.5" (2.25") hoses and it cleared the chips from the planer, but I noticed the other day that the Shop Vac was almost completely filled with chips. I think that I let the bucket get too full (3/4 full, or thereabouts) and it was sucking straight to the vac. This can get to be a problem if you run it on tools that can make it fill up fast, but stuff like the table saw, router or bandsaw should be fine. Just upgraded my vac to a Ridgid WD1450 (14 gallon/6HP).

I was cutting some stuff on my table saw the other day and I forgot to turn the vac on first. I turned it on to clear the saw and the hose afterward. The bucket was completely empty before I did this. When I turned the vac on I noticed there was a definite cyclone action going on in the bottom of the 5gal bucket with what was cleared from the saw.

Can't speak for other buckets, but the 'Homer' bucket works well, and it's handle secures the lid very nicely. Going to try to continue using this, but I'll have to remember to empty it before and after any work on the planer.


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

I like the idea of the Dust Deputy (Onieda) as the suction comes in from side spinning down into seperate container and the suction to shop vac goes up craeting a true cyclone type of effect,,,Cleaned out the bucket again om Monday and shop vac still had only enough dust to wipe out with a clean rag, close to 2 1/2" in the container bucket...Now My shop is clean as I started on one end of shop and cleaned all the walls and shelves all tools got cleaned took 3 days but I now have a clean shop.....


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

*i need help with dust collection*

I lost the thread on building a home made vortex cone from a wok.
any help would be a god send.
thank you jody


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

This sort of illustrates my earlier comment (another thread) on Lee Valley being a wee bit pricey...
Veritas® Cyclone Lids - Lee Valley Tools


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Cocheseuga; the issue with a shopvac vs a dust collector is really the HP factor. The 2+ HP dedicated dust collectors pull a lot of air through 4" piping. No contest.
Building a bag house with additional top bags has a huge effect on dispersing the exhaust air without redistributing the fine particles. Of course moving the machine to an outside 'closet' is even better...mind you, it also means your heated shop air is also extracted.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Cocheseuga; the issue with a shopvac vs a dust collector is really the HP factor. The 2+ HP dedicated dust collectors pull a lot of air through 4" piping. No contest.
> Building a bag house with additional top bags has a huge effect on dispersing the exhaust air without redistributing the fine particles. Of course moving the machine to an outside 'closet' is even better...mind you, it also means your heated shop air is also extracted.


I have no idea what you're talking about.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

DaninVan said:


> Cocheseuga; the issue with a shopvac vs a dust collector is really the HP factor. The 2+ HP dedicated dust collectors pull a lot of air through 4" piping. No contest.
> Building a bag house with additional top bags has a huge effect on dispersing the exhaust air without redistributing the fine particles. Of course moving the machine to an outside 'closet' is even better...mind you, it also means your heated shop air is also extracted.


Hi Dan:

A dust collection is a combination of both. If you're using bag filters like some of the commercial vertical dust collectors, yes, you definitely need HP. When there is a balance between tube size (1.25", 2.5" or 4") and HP you get effective collection but not necessarily filtration.

You're right. Bag filtration requires much more horse power than cyclone filtration. Simply put, cyclone uses only sufficient HP to lift dust to the top of the cyclone then uses gravity to induce centrifugal force. 

A bag filter uses pure raw horsepower to push dust and particles up to, potentially, the top of the filter. It takes a lot of energy to push all that air through the filters. A lot of power is required just to inflate the bags. If you look at the collection specs for bag filters, they're not particularly good. Busy Bee's top end 5HP model only filters to 1 micron which makes it a MERV 8 or, at best, MERV 12. The horsepower is used to push the dust up 11 ft.

I use a cyclone lid pushed by a 1.5 HP Shopvac and it works like a charm for all but the planer and jointer. Yes, bigger hose, helps move more air. More horsepower will move the same air further and faster, not necessarily more efficiently. Moving to larger tubes and more HP wouldn't solve the problem. The cyclone would have to be resized as well. 

I also found that my cyclone fills up quickly. I have a 75L garbage can and I can fill it in 15 minutes with the jointer. Softwood is worse. I think that is more a statement of the efficiency of the cyclone rather than the need for more HP or larger tubes.

Sorry, I'm meandering.


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

nice review, whis they would make one for a 30 gallon metal can.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jody495 said:


> nice review, whis they would make one for a 30 gallon metal can.


Hi Jody:

The metal doesn't work very well. This type of lid will put enough suction to collapse the sides of the can. As for size, well here's what LeeValley Tools has on their website:



> Our large cyclone lids were designed to fit on any round container with a top diameter between 19" and 23-1/2". The registration ledges on the inside of the lid fit on standard trashcans from 19" to 20-1/2" in diameter. The 23-1/2" diameter outer ledge fits on a 55 gallon drum. Available in either black ABS or clear PET, large lids come drilled for use with either 2-1/2" or 4" diameter hose.
> 
> C. The smaller cyclone lid will fit trashcans with a top diameter between 16-1/2" and 19-1/2". At just over 19-1/2" in diameter, it is more compact and has less overhang than our large lid. Available only in clear PET for use with 2-1/2" diameter hose.


I have the non-clear version of this on top of a Rubbermaid plastic garbage can and it works a charm. I'm also using 2 1/2" diameter hose I would recommend using the larger hose if possible. The 2 1/2" will plug up quickly when clearing from a planer or jointer. It is fine with all of the other tools. Empty frequently. They fill up quickly.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Actually Peachtree woodworking as well as Rockler make these specifcally for 30 gal. cans . I have 1 from Peachtree setup on my HF 2 H.P. Dust collector that works just fine and no it will not collapse the metal can,don't know where you come up with that theory I'm debunking it as I have yet to see any collapse of my garbage can in several months of use.Cyclone Dust Separator Lid 



The Cyclone Separator with a handle works by drawing the air downward as opposed to horizontally, causing the large debris to settle at the bottom of the can. The separator also has port holes that protrude out to provide an easy hookup for your dust collection hose. The handle on the cyclone lid
makes cleaning out the can a snap, simply turn off your dust collector and lift the lid straight up and off of the
can for easy removal of the dust and debris. The Dust Collection separator comes in two sizes: 30 gallon can size
and 5 gallon size.




No. Description Price Quantity 
401
30 gallon Trash Can Cyclone Lid (fits 4" hose)
$29.99


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Tommyt654 said:


> don't know where you come up with that theory I'm debunking it as I have yet to see any collapse of my garbage


My plastic one moves all the time depending on the level of suction. If I plug the hose inadvertently the can will flex several inches. At one point, one manufacturer recommended _not_ using metal cans because of the possibility that the can could deform. If you put enough suction inside the can it will flex. Metal garbage cans are built for tension not compression. It all boils down to how much difference in air pressure you're creating while the can is in use. 

LeeValley makes this comment:



> Lids are not recommended for machines with built-in chip impellers and should be used only with sturdy-walled containers (thin-walled containers may collapse under static suction conditions, such as when the leading hose end clogs or is blocked).


Use a steel barrel you'd be fine -- use a cheap garbage can it better be plastic.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

My garbage can made w/american steel cost me close to $20, Don 't think I have to worry about it collapsing anytime in the near future, However a cheap plastic one would more than likely collapse using the HF 2 H.P.dust collector


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## ChipperOfWood (Mar 4, 2012)

*Pail cover*

Nice post Chris. Maybe I missed something here but did the pail cover shown in your photos come with the kit from Rockler? I am looking for a similar simple unit.


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## vzbingo (Mar 1, 2012)

Titus, you might go here: http://woodworkerswebsite.com/cyclone.html for a home made cyclone lid. I've seen a number of these on the web (YouTube) and they appear to work very well.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

ChipperOfWood said:


> Nice post Chris. Maybe I missed something here but did the pail cover shown in your photos come with the kit from Rockler? I am looking for a similar simple unit.


Not sure what you're referring to. The only thing purchased was the lid.

I'm looking at the Rockler website, and don't see it listed at all now as they may have stopped carrying it.

You can purchase it from Amazon.

Direct link: Woodstock W2049 Mini 2-Stage Cyclone Separator: Amazon.com: Home Improvement

I'll be posting an updated review on my website with a referral link if you're so inclined to help out the shop. Not going to post it here because I think it's against the rules.


For a mod, please edit this in the bottom of the first post:

3-5-12: Lid appears to be no longer available from Rockler, however it is available on Amazon HERE.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I'm just so excited to find something that will finally fit my Shop Vac, that I'm placing my order tonight


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

For those of you who subscribe to Wood Magazine (or don't), there is a mini-review of three different small separators in the October 2012 issue. The Dust Deputy, the Dust Right Vortex and the Woodstock lid I bought a long time ago are featured as the three best. The review backs up what I've known for awhile - it just works. According to the author, just as well as the more expensive units.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I just retired my 5-gallon system because it filled up too fast on my workbench project. I made a Thein cyclone and am using it on a 31-gallon galvanized can (the one you see at HD or Lowe's, made in the USA) and it certainly will deform the can with ease if the inlet gets anywhere close to getting blocked. However it pops back out when the flow is restored.

Still like that lid, however I'd probably tell anyone that does any amount of woodworking at one time to skip the 5-gallon size.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I’m really happy with mine even though I had to make some modifications like adding a seal around the lid, a weight in the bottom and bungee cord to hold the lid on. I use it only for my miter saw and portable router, but I’ve moved them outside during the summer and haven’t used the vacuum much at all. I really like how it fits under my work bench and out of the way. Of course I also have the Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector for all my other power tools.









I have to admit that I'm constantly fooled into thinking its full by the 25lb barbell weight inside. :laugh:


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