# vertical table equals horizontal router



## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

There were two motivations that inspired the attached router fence. I keep tool catalouges in the privy's mag rack and had drooled over the horizontal router and I had been perplexed turning out consistent lock mitre joints. 

I have a Bosch router table on a roll away cart. Their fence is a strange proprietary design. I rigged a sliding bar on the track so I had something to clamp the vertical lock mitre cut. Bosch pictures show hdpe dado'd into mdf boards. the hdpe rides in the slot of the t-trac on the router fence. The trick was getting the slider face in line with fence face but it worked and it turned out consistent lockmitre on 3/8 ths stock. thats close to 10MM for you non-imperialists. 

Then after purchasing Wood Magazines Shop Jigs and Fixtures and seeing the Plunge Jig for a fence and a sliding table I decided to build my own.

The fence is doubled 3/4" sanded plywood. I find gluing plywood with bellys bumping usually provides a very stiff and straight board. The bit cavity is 5" high to accomdate collette extension to mill wide moldings. The fence face is split horizontally. There are 3" and 2" wide faces. Also the high fence required 5" lift blocks to tighten fence on T trac. 

The fence faces are 5/8ths MDF. An offset fence is achieved by milling 3/4" MDF down to 21/32 and 11/16 thick for the outfeed.

The vertical table was made large enough to accomadate attaching a plunge jig and wide boards 

The sliding table rides on HDPE runners on the top of fence. The HDPE guides are Dado'd into the MDF sides and slide in the 1/4" slot in the router fence.

The table was assembled in place. The table sides and core were clamped together on the fence. With everything aligned thru bolts were drilled and installed. Some sanding was required after assembly in order to achieve smooth sliding. A file running along fence slot worked great.

If I ever build the plunge table I will post later


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bill, the table fence is an interesting design but it is not a vertical router table. A vertical router table has the router mounted horizontaly.


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## Lee Brubaker (Jan 30, 2006)

I think there is a little confusion of terminology here Mike. My Horizontal router table has the router mounted horizontally. My standard router table has the router mounted vertically. Hence when describing either we are describing how the router is mounted. Hence a standard router table despite the type of fence could be described as a vertical router table because that is the way the router is mounted. Ditto for the horizontal router table hence not as you described same.

Lee


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, the standard router table is a horizontal table with the router mounted vertically. A vertical table has the router mounted horizontally. I know this seems backwards in the description. The table is the reference described.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Irregardless of the terminology There is a wide sliding mechanism that runs vertical stock accurately, which is the appeal of adding a horizontal router to the shop. It worked well running lock mitre on 1X8 oak stock And I referred to my fence as a vertical table and it functions as well as what the catalougs call a horizxontal router. So what nomenclature did I misuse?


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

To be clear a horizontal ROUTER works on a horizontal table and a vertical ROUTER works on a horizontal table, The SLIDING TABLE is oriented vertically. Mike commented on router orientation. The thread title address table orientation.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

You guys can name it anything you want, I like it
Anything to help run a lock miter is a good thing.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ok, I know this seems like I am being bull headed but English is a _very_ specific language. In photo 1 you see a router table. The table is horizontal, correct? No mention of the router itself, just the router table. Photo 2 is a horizontal panel raising bit. No mention of the router or it's position: this bit is to be used so the cutting action is horizontal. So far, so good. The problem arises when a router is mounted horizontally in a vertical router table. If we leave the router out of this and look at the router table it is vertical. Remember that the router is mounted in the router table. The fence is what guides our work on the router table and is 90º(most of the time) to the table surface. On a standard router table the fence is vertical; on a vertical router table it is horizontal. Since a router table is a router table with out the router installed the reference should be the orientation of the table itself, not the position of the router. When vertical router tables were introduced they were incorrectly named for the position of the router when the table itself is vertical. See my point? It would be correct to call them "horizontally mounted router" tables but the router table itself is still vertical. Please give this some thought and see if it makes sense to you. Industry standards are created by a consensus; I am willing to contact any manufacturers and present this information and hopefully get them to agree and change the way they advertise their product. You are of course welcome to tell me I am full of beans but as I stated earlier; English is a very specific language.


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Mike said:


> Ok, I know this seems like I am being bull headed but English is a _very_ specific language.


Yeah, what he said. :nhl_checking: Seriously though, the pictures tell the story, I admit I expected to see the router mounted sideways, (is it ok if I say that?), but I figured it out fairly quickly. And I always like to see new solutions, they sometimes inspire me.


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## Lee Brubaker (Jan 30, 2006)

Mike: I'm just as bullheaded & to prove it one of the earliest router experts to add a horizontal router to his standard table was the late Patrick Spielman....he called it a horizontal router table. Another very experienced router man is Bill Hilton who designed several of what he called a horizontal router tables. In each case the router is mounted horizontally & both very experienced authors use the same terminology. In simple terminology horizontal routers mount to what is basically a fence & the bit projects horizontally into the table on which the work piece slides. With a straight bit the horizontal router table safely handles jointer work on smaller pieces than you would attempt with a regular jointer.In any case, I think I will stick with the terminology used by such experts.

Lee


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9782-best-both-worlds.html

=========


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

That is fine Lee, we can agree to disagree. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. I am not arguing the point of what this particular product has been called by anybody, I am saying it is not logical and conflicts with the English language. A table that is horizontal is parallel to the horizon, not vertical; this is a simple fact.

Thanks for adding that link BJ, I am sure members will find your solution very helpful.


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## Lee Brubaker (Jan 30, 2006)

Shucks Mike, lets say your approach is proper according to the English language. As such, most router tables are not tables at all. They contain multiple drawers as well as doors hence are cabinets.....not tables. I don't think woodworkers are suddenly going to start calling them router cabinets....do you ?

Lee


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## FWFreitag (Nov 24, 2008)

I have to agree with Lee! A horizontal router is mounted "horizontally". In fact, if you search the internet you will find horizontal router tables made by many manufacturers doing just such.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

FW, if you read back through the posts you will see that I agree several companies market these router tables with routers mounted horizontally in them as "Horizontal router tables." No arguement on this. Pat and Bill designed tables with routers mounted horizontally and called them the same thing; again no argument. Now look at this photo and you will see a router table. We know it is a router table because it is designed to be used with a router, correct? Is the table horizontal? The answer is yes, no question about it. Even though it has no router installed in it this is still called a router table. If this is true then the router is not the reference point... the table is. This is straight logic. If you mount a router horizontally the table is vertical. This is why I say we should call a spade a spade. We should be calling these models vertical router tables.


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## Lee Brubaker (Jan 30, 2006)

Good golly I'm certainly glad that we are not debating something important. I'm now a little ashamed that I managed to get myself sucked in on something so arcane. Good luck when pointing out to Manufacturer's the error of their terminology. Should give them a few giggles over coffee.

Lee


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

*Actual miter joint question*

Bill,

Regardless of the terminology, I am about to sacrifice some better wormy maple to a lock miter joint bit and your post is very timely. I've planed it down to 5/8" thickness. I am going to make a coping sled for the flat routing. The sliding fence (vertical coping sled) for the "on end" side is what I am interested in.

What is the month/year of the Wood Magazines Shop Jigs and Fixtures publication you were using as part of the idea?

When using the sliding fence are you cutting in several passes? If so, how do you set up and index the amount of cut.

Steve.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

The sliding table is in Amazon.com: Wood Magazine: Build Your Own Shop Jigs & Fixtures (9781402720437): Editors of Wood Magazine: Books 
a book


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bill, let me apologise for the digression about semantics; to get the thread back on track I will say that you did a great job on an interesting design. I also want to thank you for taking the time to do the photos and share them with members. I wish more members would contribute as you have. Keep up the good work!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

To the whole bunch of you:

The English language is confusing enough. Please don't add to the confusion. Refer to a Vertical Table, or a Horizontal Table, or a Vertical-mounted Router or a Horizontal-mounted Router. When you state "vertical router table" or a "horizontal router table" what are you really saying?

Some terms have become sort of _de facto_ standard terms. By re-inventing the language it gets really confusing. To make matters worse, I'm running into all kinds of situations for which no terms exist.

Like Mike, I refer to the orientation of the mounting surface of the router, thus a horizontal table (the standard one) or a vertical table (the one that Bill Hylton hangs on the side of his bench [or router table])

Which ever handle you choose, please be clear which one you're referring to. Use a footnote if necessary.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Vertical table???? 

Vertical table = wall!


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

yea rj its a wall but its fun.  f I titled it routrer wall it would have avoided the english lessons:fie:


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I enjoy the exchanges with all my fellow tinkers. For thats what we are. People who love problem solving and craftsmanship. Since I joined this wonderful forum I have been entertained, provoked, and taught. My fence submission was intended to provoke ideas in my fellow tinkers and repay a little of what I have taken.

Mike thank you for your efforts in helping us all have a clearer understanding of this crafts teminology. As a construction professional I find the rotary cutter to be a whole new logic filled with unexplored areas and acknowledge how essential accurate words are to convey that logic again thank you


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