# I bought a router lift



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

"I bought a router lift because the magzines said the ultimate table had one. I don't know which router will work in it, can you help me?"
This is a very common situation. People you do not need to spend all that money. Magazines are paid to promote high dollar items. Stop drinking the KoolAid. There is one style of router which benefits from a router lift: This is because the motor twists in the base to make height adjustments. IE.. the PC 7518. The Triton 3-1/4 hp router is designed for table mounting only. When you crank it up all the way it locks the spindle for bit changes. Total cost should be under $300. All the combo kits have above the table height adjustments in the fixed bases, no lift required. Having seen lifts in action I can assure you I change my bits and make height adjustments faster by popping the router out of the table. This is why mounting plates were developed.

If you want a lift fine, study up before you buy. Know which routers will work so you do not have to hassle with returns. I will be spending the extra cash for router bits.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Very well said Mike. The K.I.S.S. rule certainly applies to this.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*No Swinging, Thank you.*

Amen, Mike! 
I'm sure that tables and their accessories are a delight to work with, but the individual has to be realistic about what they do with their routers.
For me tables are impractical. My shop is 12' x 27'. If I'm dadoing a 10' or 12' plank a) it's heavy, and b) I don't have room to start swinging it around. Far safer and easier to simply clamp it and bring the tool to the workpiece.
I mostly use the router on casework and it's just more efficient (for me) to machine my pieces flat on the work table. 
Same for laminate trimming with my trim router. If I had to machine a 7' tall gable, how the heck would I be able to trim the ends? I'd _still_ have to pull out the trim router for _them_.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

At last, a man who appears to agree with me in saying that most routing can and should be done hand held. Hence the reason that I have always claimed that a BASIC router table is all that is required, not those ubeaut ones with all the bells and whistles, sure they're great for sitting in front of and admiring!


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

About lifts:
They look pretty expensive, made an adjustment system for a Ryobi plunge router
for about $5.
Works fine: resolution is 1mm by turn (1/25")
Just based on a 6mm metric threaded bar 6x1mm.

Table routing makes a lot of sense in many occasions, like having a heavy bit
for pannelling, making molders, or just a nice chamfer.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The rule I was taught is that small things are better done on a table. Large things are better done by hand. It seems to work well that way.
Mike and Gerard are right, a lift can be improvised around quite easily. As Mike said, spend your money on bits, that's something you can't improvise around.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Since every website and magazine has declared they have "The Ultimate", the term has lost all its meaning, to the point of it being ridiculous. I have even e-mailed a few magazines to that fact.
I will say that most of my routing is done on the table. Just the way I like to do it.
My PC890 is manually adjusted. And I reach under the table for bit changes. I have a plunge base for it, but it collects dust, as I never remove the router from the table. Not even sure where that base is anymore.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I have never seen the need for a lift on my router tables and it is funny because I am a gadget guy. I have found a need for digital readouts because I'm getting old and can't see anymore, they have really helped. Good shop lighting is also more important, and dust collection makes you breath easier. Then more router bits and then more routers......


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## dask (Dec 24, 2011)

for the price of a router lift I could buy a used rigid ts3650...and for around $10 bucks for the plans some scrap wood and a few steel rods you can build your own lift.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

begin(rant)

Although I agree fully with Mike, that an purchase should be fully researched before hand, I also think it is a little arrogant to presume to know my needs without knowing me, my situation, and my intended application.

I have arthritic spurs in both shoulders and lifting a 15 pound router, router plate, and bit out of a table to change bits, is not as easy as it used to be. I have NOT went to a lift yet(but I never pull the router to change bits or adjust bit height either!) but I assure you at some point I will. Revealing personal info like this should not be be necessary in order to obtain advise!

As for tables one of my primary applications is making raised panels. I don't recommend and have never seen any on else recommend making them without a table. Most, but not all my routing is done at the table!

So I agree that many of these questions could/should be answerable with a little research, but If I have decided to buy a lift and need and ask for advice, telling me I should do it another way is not always helpful or wanted!

End(rant)


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Duane, you have a valid reason for buying a lift; and this is exactly the reason I started the special needs section of the forums. My first router table was designed so I could sit down to work at it. At that time I was recovering from a severly hyper extended leg muscle and needed a special work around. Sharing simple ideas like that helps others. In that section I mention that people with arm mobility problems benefit greatly from the use of a lift. What I have a problem with is that the magazines preach that everyone should buy a lift or their woodworking is in some way sub standard. This misleads many people starting out and may very well prevent someone on a limited budget from enjoying woodworking, understand?


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Mike said:


> Duane, you have a valid reason for buying a lift; and this is exactly the reason I started the special needs section of the forums. My first router table was designed so I could sit down to work at it. At that time I was recovering from a severly hyper extended leg muscle and needed a special work around. Sharing simple ideas like that helps others. In that section I mention that people with arm mobility problems benefit greatly from the use of a lift. What I have a problem with is that the magazines preach that everyone should buy a lift or their woodworking is in some way sub standard. This misleads many people starting out and may very well prevent someone on a limited budget from enjoying woodworking, understand?


 Yes, Mike, I agree with you about magazines.. they are mostly advertisers first and informers second. 
With 15 years experience woodworking, I am still learning a lot from this forum. It is one of the best I have found. I also try to share what I have learned both as a woodworker and as a technician

I also was a very avid fan of the Router Workshop. That said, I don't do a lot of things Bob and Ricks way, because without the expensive jigs they were selling I can't. Many were not easy to make at home with alignment issues, holes in table top to insert jig alignment pins in,etc. The easiest way many times is to learn how to make do with the equipment you have. I use the Incra ultra for most non raised panel joinery because it is what I have and there really is no more accurate way to do many things. Yes , somethings are more complicated. But that is one of the nice things about woodworking.. as long as its not unsafe, there are many ways to accomplish the same task.

I have never regretted spending the money on quality tools. Have many times regretted going the inexpensive route!


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## stormyh (Sep 19, 2011)

I spent a lot of time prior to purchasing a lift, now I have three, Rockler, good lift but lifting drive access is usually blocked when working. Woodpeckers, USA made and it shows, this is a great lift, holds the setting, with adjustment controls accessible while pressure guides are in place. Just a well built machine. My third lift is the MLCS motorized lift. not well executed, my Porter Cable router would not mount until I had ground the pins off. This was not clear in the information provided by MLCS. I am somewhat disappointed by this machine. From my experience the Woodpecker lift is the best buy.


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## Relative (Apr 24, 2008)

Mike said:


> "I bought a router lift because the magzines said the ultimate table had one. I don't know which router will work in it, can you help me?"
> This is a very common situation. People you do not need to spend all that money. Magazines are paid to promote high dollar items. Stop drinking the KoolAid. There is one style of router which benefits from a router lift: This is because the motor twists in the base to make height adjustments. IE.. the PC 7518. The Triton 3-1/4 hp router is designed for table mounting only. When you crank it up all the way it locks the spindle for bit changes. Total cost should be under $300. All the combo kits have above the table height adjustments in the fixed bases, no lift required. Having seen lifts in action I can assure you I change my bits and make height adjustments faster by popping the router out of the table. This is why mounting plates were developed.
> 
> If you want a lift fine, study up before you buy. Know which routers will work so you do not have to hassle with returns. I will be spending the extra cash for router bits.


Agree wholeheartedly with this. I researched for a router for my table that met various criteria, one of which was to adjust from above. I selected the Milwaukee 5625-20 even though I still would have to reach underneath to unlock/lock the body. Turns out to be a huge disappointment. As I try to raise the bit, the router slips back down one thread and I get no progress unless I reach underneath and 'help' lift it as I crank. The 'quick release' button is the culprit but I find no fix nor help from Milwaukee. 

This is a big router that I don't like the idea of using by hand. This is also a situation where it looks like I might be springing for one of those lifts some time in the future.

Mike


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> begin(rant)
> 
> Although I agree fully with Mike, that an purchase should be fully researched before hand, I also think it is a little arrogant to presume to know my needs without knowing me, my situation, and my intended application.
> 
> ...


I'm about that age also. I feel you. 

I have 2 router tables and several other routers. The first router table, I bought as a table router set. Although it gave my abilities that I couldn't do as well, to the quailty I got, it did have some short comings and quarks. Those are what inspired me to make the second table. I still use the first table as it is very portable.

Some of the things I improved on was bit changing, lift, fence, table size.

I built my lift... but built the table with the intend of someday changing over to "made" lift. I don't see the need for that yet.

Router dedication? Yes. I have not seen a design yet for a quick-change router lift. I ended up buying router's to dedicate for a table, so I still had routers left to use.

I do allot of cabinet and finish work... So the comment on a table is good just for small work... If only that then I would just use an extended plate with the router in a clamp. I feel, at least for me, that it's more precision, repetition, ease of use. You can use jigs and clamping on a table, fence extensions and feathers, etc. I do small pieces through around 18 feet long... Yet I still find my other routers invaluable and use them allot.


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## Roger Leclercq (Jan 28, 2009)

I just bought a router raizer kit for $89 and am waiting for delivery when I started making raised panel doors i bought a Porta Cable 7539 and the other lifts are not compatible. I am tired of having to pull the router out of the table to change bits. I also cant justify paying $400 for a lift plus a new 7518 router


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

I look at my router table as a stationary power tool. I like it to be as accurate and easy to use as any other well built power tool in my small shop. I like a router lift that I can work above the table to change bits and adjust the height. I have not had a router lift all my wood working days but wish I would have. I have bent over adjusting bit heights and bringing the router with the table base plate out to change bits for Many years. If you have the room for a router table I think it is a good ideal to make it as good as you possibly can.


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## RDWilson2 (Feb 11, 2009)

Maxmilon said:


> I have not had a router lift all my wood working days but wish I would have.


I am just beginning to work with my router and am also just completing my (first) router table; however, I am starting out with a lift instead of bending over to do the adjustments (the lift is accessible from the top). I have knees that don't take kindly to kneeling and when I have to bend over to work on things (which, being 6' 1" tall, I often "get" to do), my lower back "talks to me". Also,Coming from a computer programming background, I have learned that there is no need to do any more work than you have to and, often, doing a bit more work up front will save you lot of heartburn later on (i.e. I tend to be what I call "constructively lazy" :yes4: ). 

My interest, as with computers, is in "getting it done and done with quality" rather than in "doing it the traditional way".

Of course, as the saying goes, "Your mileage may vary . . . " :yes2::yes2:


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## geoff65 (Jan 5, 2013)

Just made my own router table, I'm hoping to use it to make some decorative boxes, so I think it will be much easier for me to pass the wooden bits across the tool rather than the the otherway round.
I have used a car jack (losange or diamond style), it cost me 12€ and a tiewrap to fix it in place, and it it lifts and locks the router in place perfectly well.
I can change the bits with the router raised with the bit end flush with my router plate (piece of 3mm galvanised steel).
I'll send a picture as soon as I've got through my 10 posts!

Geoff


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## hobbyshop (Jan 3, 2013)

My router is fixed to my table, without a removable plate. I have the 3 1/4 hp variable speed Hitachi hanging from it and adjusting the height was a nightmare until I bought a lift attachment that I could access from the top. I think the need for a lift depends alot on how easily you can access your router or adjust your router. In my case, I wouldn't live without it.


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## GUNNYSKI (Jan 2, 2013)

True by all means but I believe that all the views I can see were meant in a positive opinion oriented view point. I for example have similar personal problems and could possibly benefit by a lift somewhat although I happen to have the PC7518 reflected earlier. It is currently on an old, real old, Craftsman industrial router table which is too small to handle the work piece and the power of the PC. I am looking at building a table modeled after his Normness for not only its practical use, storage areas, and need for routing smaller items but because of my physical limitations. Not to mention I just feel like building something no matter how rarely used, that I can admire. At my age, the feeling of accomplishment and knowing my daughter will use more than me when I'm gone makes me happy. No time soon though. Isn't that what it's all really about, doing something we all love. Some for a living, some for a hobby, and some for both.


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## Roger Leclercq (Jan 28, 2009)

Rogerv said:


> I just bought a router raizer kit for $89 and am waiting for delivery when I started making raised panel doors i bought a Porta Cable 7539 and the other lifts are not compatible. I am tired of having to pull the router out of the table to change bits. I also cant justify paying $400 for a lift plus a new 7518 router


I received my router raizer and now have it installed and i love it. I installed it on a incra magna-lock plate and also used a extreme extender made by the same company. The only suggestions I have for the manufacture is the lead screw could be about 2" longer as you loose 2" of downward stroke. (I like to be able to lower the bit under the table when not in use without removing the bit.) The manufacture support desk was very helpful and instructed me to make a 3/4" extension spacer for the mounting. in my opinion this lift works as well as any lift at a third of the cost. 

The next thing I can see coming is a electric digital lift with a keypad that you select the height you want and it adjusts it for you. the biggest thing would be zeroing the bit height. But if your going to spend that much why not just buy a CNC mill.


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## pikespeakgtx (Jan 14, 2013)

Mike said:


> "I bought a router lift because the magzines said the ultimate table had one. I don't know which router will work in it, can you help me?"
> This is a very common situation. People you do not need to spend all that money. Magazines are paid to promote high dollar items. Stop drinking the KoolAid. There is one style of router which benefits from a router lift: This is because the motor twists in the base to make height adjustments. IE.. the PC 7518. The Triton 3-1/4 hp router is designed for table mounting only. When you crank it up all the way it locks the spindle for bit changes. Total cost should be under $300. All the combo kits have above the table height adjustments in the fixed bases, no lift required. Having seen lifts in action I can assure you I change my bits and make height adjustments faster by popping the router out of the table. This is why mounting plates were developed.
> 
> If you want a lift fine, study up before you buy. Know which routers will work so you do not have to hassle with returns. I will be spending the extra cash for router bits.


Mike, 

Sure am glad I read your post. You wrote that about me, right? 

Before using 'em, I put the Kool-Aid down, and returned the $170 router lift and the $190 2.25hp router that fits it. 

I bought a 3.25hp Triton on sale for $210. 

Im not loosing any functionality, gaining 1hp, and saving $150. 

Its going here as an insert on a Ridgid r4510 table saw.

Thanks again, 
Michael LeCompte


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Michael, the reason I started this thread was to get people to think before they spent their hard earned money. Everyone should work with what feels best to them. I have never owned a lift and I change bits or make adjustments by popping my router out of the table. This is second nature to me, quick and easy. Many people like using a lift. What ever makes you happy but don't do it because someone who is paid to promote items tells you to. Spend the time to look at options before you buy and you will be happiest with the results.


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## steamingbill (Jan 13, 2013)

pikespeakgtx said:


> Mike,
> 
> I bought a 3.25hp Triton on sale for $210.
> 
> ...


Hello,

Interesting photo, I assume that the 180 degree scale means you can change the angle of the router bit relative to the Table ?

Is it one of those routers that pop the bit up out of the table to let you change the bit ?

And it mounts in a conventional saw table ? Can you just pull the saw out and put the router in like on the Triton workstations ?

I am keen to learn about the new Triton Routers, my experience is limited to a 20 year old Makita - and to be honest there nothing wrong with it - just hasn't got any bells and whistles..


Regards

Bill


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Hello Bill--The router you see pictured is mounted in the wing of a table saw. The 180 degree scale looks actually to be the saw's miter guage sitting in its holder on the side of the saw cabinet. It is a very good optical illusion--it does appear to be part of the router set-up.

earl


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## pikespeakgtx (Jan 14, 2013)

Bill,

Earl is correct. Optical illusion.

And Yes, The router does lock the spindle at full bit height so above the table bit changes are easily done. 

Plus the router has dust collection @ the cut like the festool.


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## BobcatBob (Aug 5, 2012)

I went without a lift in my router table for years and finally broke down and purchased it and heve never regretted it. It is amazing the precision I get with it; if I need the bit 1/64 inch higher, it's just a partial crank. However, do your research to see what routers fit with what lifts.

Bob


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## BRAVOGOLFTANGO (Oct 11, 2012)

BobcatBob said:


> I went without a lift in my router table for years and finally broke down and purchased it and heve never regretted it. It is amazing the precision I get with it; if I need the bit 1/64 inch higher, it's just a partial crank. However, do your research to see what routers fit with what lifts.
> 
> Bob


I couldn't agree more Bob, I think they are incredible, but I also totally understand where Mike is coming from here.

I've been able to see through the rifraf with most advertisers, magazines, etc, with most things in life in general let alone woodworking, but getting into this hobby I've learned there is a HUGE push from woodworking sites, magazines, and even on forums. 

I'm all for advertising, marketing and promoting a business, company and all that good jazz. Seems with the woodworking genre there is an intense push for everyone to own the best of everything when it's not what makes (in my opinion) a good woodworking project. I believe skill comes first and the finer tools make it easier is all.


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## JohnMess (Jan 16, 2013)

I am going to be making a new router table but for my old one I have been using a modified car jack we call them scissor jack it gets me millimeter accuracy and I have never had any bother with the router trying to move ect. 

I welded the jack to a base plate then made and welded a cup on the top to fit the router all in cost me under $20 and it will be going onto my new router tabel once I have the time to build it. Not sure if this helps anyone but it is an inexpensive router lift.

The only problem of course with my lift is there is no way to tilt the router its a striaght up and down job and nothing else.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I was fortunate that a friend recommended Triton. He even said he would buy it from me if I didn't like it!! I had done enough research to determine that I wanted to adjust the bit height from the top of the table. The Triton (2 1/4 HP) fit the bill. 

I knew that stooping under the table to adjust the bit height would get old very quickly.

My table is simple MDF. I made a long dowel that takes the place of the hand crank. 

Next I have bought a Craftsman router (combo kit). I'll be using that hand held primarily.


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

Here is my router lift. It's free.


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## MasterSplinter1 (Jan 27, 2013)

Very Nicely said


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## Farmington (Feb 16, 2013)

Good info Mike. I was looking over the "ultimate" and glad to know I can do without it.


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

I have been using a modified car jack we call them scissor jack 

Can you post a picture that for us?


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## JulianLech (Jan 25, 2011)

I haven't made my router lift yet but the ability to make minor height adjusts from the table top is the the best feature. The only other thing to consider is a way lock in that adjustment.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Julian, most combo kit routers have above the table height adjustment features so a lift is really not needed. Adjusting a bit above the table is not as big an advantage as you might think. Many lifts do not lock in position; the new Incra does and it is adjustable so it will work with many routers with no adapter. Keep in mind that for the cost of a lift you can buy a lot of bits.


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## jkbixby (Mar 12, 2013)

*Solved the router lift question - for now*

Thanks to this thread I've come up with the answer to whether I need to buy a lift to go with the new PC router and Incra combo setup - I'm not going to have to morgage the house to add one as I can wait and see if it's really needed despite the advertising hype. I just knew it would pay off joining the Router Forum - it has and will answer a lot of my questions.


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## Nbowes (Apr 1, 2012)

*router table on table saw*

I made a 7.5" square plate out of 3/8 lexan, and mounted that to my router. Routed a 7" hole in a 16" wide piece of scrap counter top. with a 3/8" lip. Bolted this to my table saw right side extension. Router drops right in. to change bits, just pop it out, change the bit and pop it back in. No reaching under the table. power cord plugged into a power bar. Turn that off. every thing is off.

If I need to use the router by hand, I just pop it out of the table and go to it, because the lexan also acts as the base plate and I can see through it. 

If I was doing a lot of routing with different bits, I would have a couple routers already set up. to change, it would then be pop one out, and pop the other back in.

This also allows me to use the rip fence on my table saw if I need to.


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## JI808 (Aug 7, 2013)

Mike said:


> "I bought a router lift because the magzines said the ultimate table had one. I don't know which router will work in it, can you help me?"
> This is a very common situation. People you do not need to spend all that money. Magazines are paid to promote high dollar items. Stop drinking the KoolAid. There is one style of router which benefits from a router lift: This is because the motor twists in the base to make height adjustments. IE.. the PC 7518. The Triton 3-1/4 hp router is designed for table mounting only. When you crank it up all the way it locks the spindle for bit changes. Total cost should be under $300. All the combo kits have above the table height adjustments in the fixed bases, no lift required. Having seen lifts in action I can assure you I change my bits and make height adjustments faster by popping the router out of the table. This is why mounting plates were developed.
> 
> If you want a lift fine, study up before you buy. Know which routers will work so you do not have to hassle with returns. I will be spending the extra cash for router bits.



I know I'm new to the forum, but every other forum I've been on that have stickied topics, those topics are typically Tech threads with legitimate data and info in them. 

This sticky seems to be more of an opinion than anything. I understand a need to tell people (especially newcomers) that they don't NEED a router lift, but there are many instances where router lifts are a very nice item to have.

I worked in a car audio shop and there was nothing that was made that didn't see it's way to the router. Having a router lift with depth of cut adjustment at the table surface was a HUGE time saver. Bit changes were also much faster than is possible to remove the router from the table. 

I honestly don't see how a person can say that they can change bits and make height adjustments faster without a router lift. Your first step is to start removing the router. My first step is actually adjusting depth of cut. Extra steps in the process mean more time spent executing those steps.

If you're working at home you likely don't NEED a router lift. You'll still get the job done, but it WILL take longer to get it done. 

Once using a router lift and getting used to the speed and efficiency afforded by one, most people will find it hard to go back to the "old ways".


And the word "ultimate" bugs me. There is no "ultimate" anything - especially when it comes to tools and YOUR shop. What is considered by one person to be the "ultimate" is probably mediocre to someone else. Do research and see what's best for you. Don't listen solely to a magazine or a single individual. Research, research, research - then make your decision.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jason, have you ever seen the Router Workshop TV show that was on PBS? I know this thread is an opinion but it is based on sharing information. There are many options and they all work. People go out and buy without checking out the details and then post questions here and that is what I am trying to eliminate by this thread.

The biggest advantage for rapid bit changes is a Musclechuck. I have yet to find a lift where the bits can be changed and set up as fast as popping the router out of the table. I test _everyone's_ products so this is not idle speculation.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Jason.

It seems that you agree with the general tone of the thread:


> If you're working at home you likely don't NEED a router lift.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

hey, that sounds good.post more details or pics. if you can. MAC.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Me too dan, getting well past my sell by date asnd will be keaving all my tools to a retired brother in law ,way down in cornwall,i've asked all the local family if they want them ,shed and all,but no ,plonkers one and all,admirers but no creators,boy need some ass kikin here, mac


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Dam good idea friend, i just threw away a couple of those jacks been kikin around for years,hell why didn't i use my brain, mac


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

I have a cheap Craftsman 2 horse is a cheap Grizzly table. I change the height from above the table. I can change bits bits by simply pushing a button and raising the router after unlatching. I can reach the button to lock the shaft and remove the bit. What I would like to know is, if Craftsman can do it why can't these other manfacturers?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dick, if you like your Craftsman you would love the big Milwaukee. If they made a plunge base for this router it would sell like hot cakes.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Mike said:


> Dick, if you like your Craftsman you would love the big Milwaukee. If they made a plunge base for this router it would sell like hot cakes.


Mike I haven't looked at the Milwaukee. I will definitely take a look at it, IF it has the same sensible conveniences as this Craftsman. The only thing that has come close so far is the big Triton. My son took one look at Jerry's Master Lift, and fell in love, and says we *Will* have one. The Craftsman has held up great so far. I am not afraid of raised panels with it if they are pre-cut on the table saw.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Don't get angry D.I'm in the same boat but you have to grin and bear it,I tust your arthritis eases I take large garlic pills cod liver oil capsules everyday and it has helped me a lot,also a couple of wee drams every night,helps you sleep boy, MAC.


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

I'm curios what this thread is about. Is it about how well router lifts work or about woodworking on a budget?
All the things done on a router table can be done without a router lift with an adjustable router. 
Is it about the trouble of removing the router to change bits?
How about the accurcacy and repeatabilty?
All of these things play a role in working with wood.
I have been woodworking on a budget all my life. I have also upgraded when I get a chance. Everything I have purchased I have researched.
I now have two router lifts. They are two different brands. Both of them can change the bits above the table without reaching under the table. I can micro adjust both of them above the table while looking at them in their fixed position.
My routers are also mounted so tight I have to put them in with a rubber mallet so to remove them and re-install them every time I changed a bit would do damage to my router tables.
I think what works best for you and your budget is how you should go. 
Do you need a router lift. NO.
Is it nice to have on? Yes.
Is it nice to have two. Heck Yes


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, a LOT of members were running out and buying routers and lifts that would not work with them and then asking for help. The reason for this thread is to make people stop and think before they buy. I do not use a router lift but I have nothing against them... to each his own.


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

Mike, I agree with your original post. I also agree that if it works for you then why change it. But it all comes down to the research you put into a product (no matter what it is) make sure that it is the right thing to suit your needs. I see a lot of people with things they bought laying around and never being used. I walk through a woodworking store and see things for sale that can be easily made with simple woodworking tools and people wasting hard earned dollars buying them when they could have fun building them.
I also agree certain magazines push products. I built a jewelry box featured in a magazine. It gives a list of all the special tools and bits needed (according to them) to complete the project. One of the things needed were two v-groove bits. They had one as a vertical bit and one horizontal with part #s for both. Only 1 bit is needed as they both do the same function. But that goes back to do your research and know what you are buying.
That is why this is such a good forum to help educate and pass on knowledge to people that can avoid making mistakes that so many of us have already made.


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

Well the real money in the magazine publishing biz is not subscription fees, it is advertising. So it stands to reason that a journal might favor their advertisers. 

As to the need for a router lift.
Unless one gets the Hot-Dawg Router Lift by Megaton Industries with the 18 HP electric start Kawasaki gas engine to power the thing - - well nuthin' one does will ever come out right. 
They do make a three phase 10 HP electric powered model router lift too
It's the bomb.


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

CR1, Advertisement is everywhere. It isn’t always a bad thing although it can be annoying. They advertise in magazines and even on PBS. But just because it funds magazines and PBS doesn’t make the advertiser evil. Do you avoid buying an item you have seen in an advertisement?


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## mr nobody (Nov 11, 2011)

What! you speak of "one" router that works with lift. Then you say that is because it turns in the base. You lost me because to use a lift, the base is removed, not needed, in the way. Triton, too big, overkill for my uses. My PC892 is a very very bad joice for using with a lift, see my post.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

mr nobody said:


> My PC892 is a very very bad joice for using with a lift, see my post.





mr nobody said:


> I would caution anyone from making the mistake that i did--trying to use a PC892 in a router table; especialy with a lift mechanism.
> Motor is not round, has flat spots which limit alignument.
> Lock pin housing prevents router from being raised up enough to lossen collet, unless you have a giant hole.
> A lug protruding up from the hieght adjusment gears does the same.
> ...


The post referred to.


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## Cyber Sapp (Dec 17, 2013)

*how did you build the table for the router*

How did you make the router table. Can you share with me the plans? I'm in the market to buy a table, but I saw your post and I have the same table saw and would love to do that to my r4510. That's an awesome setup you create (btw).



pikespeakgtx said:


> Bill,
> 
> Earl is correct. Optical illusion.
> 
> ...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Bump....


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

A table-mounted router can 
be very versatile. But it’s 
important to choose a router 
that’s designed expressly 
for that purpose.

An article to assist in your choice.
http://www.finewoodworking.com/media/RouterTables.pdf


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Go Triton....Yeah*



Botelho007 said:


> A table-mounted router can
> be very versatile. But it’s
> important to choose a router
> that’s designed expressly
> ...



Note the Triton is the only plunge router in the review and wins BOTH stars.,.....:sold:


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

Hi James.
Was sure you would comment this.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This article from 2007 isn't worth the paper it was written on. "If you don't do it my way and buy this you are stupid" is no way to provide information on routers. Here are some key points to consider:

Run out. Testing one router from each brand tells you nothing. Every one of these routers will have a variance of run out depending on where the collet is seated in relation to a single reference point on the motor shaft. Poor science at the very best.

"Much better than using a router lift" Nonsense. All the router lifts use linear bearings to maintain alignment of the router in relation to the opening.

They didn't even get the Craftsman model number right, it is the 26620.

Why is above the table height adjustment better? It is not; this is a matter of personal preference.

All of the major name brand routers perform well. How you choose to use a router should be based on what feels right to you... not the opinion of someone who is paid by a company to give his opinion. Most magazines will not do a review unless the product is advertised in the magazine. This is why so many companies are turning to forums like ours to get honest evaluations.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Steady on , Mike. VBG.

You got such a blood rush you posted your comment twice.

I deleted the duplicate post......


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

Here we speak:

Very calm in this hour ....


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## JWoody1 (Dec 30, 2013)

*Any advice welcome*

My story,,Have been routing with tables for a long time, built my first from kitchen counter top, even mounted a circular saw under a handmade workbench for a first tablesaw and managed not to cut off my fingers. I wanted more accuracy. Ever have to loosen the base to adjust the height, set the height, measure then go to tighten it up and then the whole thing settles 1/16 in? trial and error, over and over. Measure and measure again, my eyes are getting older. For awhile I went to hand tools only, except a table saw and band saw. I want easier more reliable adjustment. This is why the new lift in a table with a more powerful router and the desire for a micro adjust fence. I work with expensive and sometimes very hard and figured woods,what can I say, I am getting picky in my old age, can't afford to have it rattle or tear to lead to long hours of rubbing, scraping, sanding it out or recutting to waste. So, I have a PC 7518 new in box, Master Lift II with the Incra setup, a Benchdog Pro contractor table mounted on a craftsman portable workbench, a Fein vaccume. Seems like this might be enough, but before I start putting it all together I joined this forum to ask for any advice on setup, are there any good micro adjust fences out there, or stick with a combo square. Anything to watch out for before putting all this together and crossing a bridge I can't go back over?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jim, you do not need a square to adjust your fence since the bit is round. At any angle the fence will always be square to the bit. For me the best way to make adjustments is using brass set up bars.


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## Blakewnelson94 (Feb 21, 2014)

This post seriously saved me from wasting a lot of money, Thanks for looking out for us mike


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## BRAVOGOLFTANGO (Oct 11, 2012)

Maxmilon said:


> I think what works best for you and your budget is how you should go.
> Do you need a router lift. NO.
> Is it nice to have on? Yes.
> Is it nice to have two. Heck Yes


Replying to an old post, but sometimes it's good to read old intel to help one make an informed decision. I built my own pro-router table and a wooden DIY router lift with a cheap SKIL variable speed router couple years back, works fantastic and has served it's purpose. Built the lift for the technical challenge, but I'd like something different & have grown my hobby to the point of actually using/requiring table mounted router capabilities (not necessarily a router-lift) but the capability. As a hobbyist working out of a 2-car garage I agree that one doesn't "need" an RL, but it's more a nice to have. Even a hobbyist like myself can grow their skillsets to a point of requiring some form of advanced router table capability.

I was really considering the Jessem Mast-R-Lift II for it's multi-model capacity and higher-horsepower model capability but re-reading this thread has rekindled my interest in adjustable under-table mounted routers as well. I do have a DW621 2hp which I love for the various mortise/tenon jigs and it's smaller size serves itself well.

Now to go do more research on the pros & cons of dedicated lifts vs adjustable undertable routers, let the fun begin...


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Mike said:


> This article from 2007 isn't worth the paper it was written on. "If you don't do it my way and buy this you are stupid" is no way to provide information on routers. Here are some key points to consider:
> 
> Run out. Testing one router from each brand tells you nothing. Every one of these routers will have a variance of run out depending on where the collet is seated in relation to a single reference point on the motor shaft. Poor science at the very best.
> 
> ...



Well said Mike,

Jerry


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## Nbowes (Apr 1, 2012)

I made 2'x2' square top from old counter top and scrap wood. cut 3/8 deep 7x7 pocket and attached to my table saw. made 7x7 plates with hole to mount router from clear poly. to change bit depth, pop router out of the recess, adjust and drop back in. If I was doing raised panel doors I would have 2 routers mounted on the plates, lift one out, put the other in. if I need fence, I use the saw fence. if i need hand held, the plate is clear so I take router off table and use it as hand helld. 
Dust collector, make ur own.
last router I bought was $25 off Kijiji.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mike said:


> There is one style of router which benefits from a router lift: This is because the motor twists in the base to make height adjustments. IE.. the PC 7518. The Triton 3-1/4 hp router is designed for table mounting only.


For some reason I thought you were going to say " there is one router that does NOT benefit from a router lift"

The reason I say this is when I mounted my PC 690 under my TS extension I found it easy to undo the clasp and rotate it to change heights .
I had the base secured directly to the underside of the extension and it was very easy to turn and remove to change bits . Never had a plate for it , although I have an Incra plate coming for the new TS setup .
I'm a newbie , so go easy on me


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## bbandu (May 12, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> For some reason I thought you were going to say " there is one router that does NOT benefit from a router lift"
> 
> The reason I say this is when I mounted my PC 690 under my TS extension I found it easy to undo the clasp and rotate it to change heights .
> I had the base secured directly to the underside of the extension and it was very easy to turn and remove to change bits . Never had a plate for it , although I have an Incra plate coming for the new TS setup .
> I'm a newbie , so go easy on me




I as well use the PC690 but I have it attached to the Rockler Rout R Lift (purchased of craigslist). Changing bits is not an issue as it raises the router high enough to change the bits from the top.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

bbandu said:


> I as well use the PC690 but I have it attached to the Rockler Rout R Lift (purchased of craigslist). Changing bits is not an issue as it raises the router high enough to change the bits from the top.


Yes I could see where not having to remove the router from its base would be a plus.
I ordered an Incra plate to fit a PC 690 and I have no idea whether you can change bits from the top , but I suspect you can't ,and I've never used a plate so I have no idea .
I suspect it's going to be here any day now so I guess I'll find out


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

My lift which is operable from above the table and which I built and is described with photos and a vid here: http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/40264-my-brand-new-router-lift.html#post326671 does not bring the collet above the table because I use the router's plunge base and unlike the Triton won't project it that far.

However I have one side of the table open so changing cutters is as easy as if I could bring the collet above the table.

I have plans for a more robust lift using large diameter linear bearings to solve a problem I've noticed with plunge bases using both the triton big dog and the large Porter Cable in a table: They are not very resistant to flexing.
I put a big bit in them in a table application and under load, they plunge base is flopping in the breeze. 

A second problem is in the built in lock ( in both of those routers) with an indicator on the cutter I can see a meaningful angle change in the bit when I engage the lock in the plunge base. These issues are is just friggin unacceptable. 

I have a source for jig plate cheap, a recently acquired multiprocess welder and a Yen to build a really bullet proof lift. I'm thinking it should have three - not two shafts. Three shafts will transfer lateral loading ( which causes shaft flexing) to the third leg which would then come under either compressive or expansive loading and which stresses a 1" shaft can resist marvelously well. 

I also have long wanted to try making a table from concrete. It seems the perfect material. and can be sealed to produce a wonderfully tough smooth non abrasive surface. One can also adhere High pressure laminate to it. 

The advantage to concrete over other materials is that is is impervious to humidity, won't warp, won't deform over time and can be cast cheaply to conform to whatever shapes one wishes to design into it. In my case those design features would include would include slots with steel embedded in them for T slot guides for mounting things to the table like fences and other stuff.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

CR1 you remind me of myself as I prefer to have things over engineered. 
One thing I do like about the lift from GI is that they designed it with 4 shafts , so in theory it shouldn't have any flex issues .
I have one coming so I guess I'll know soon enough .
The lift fits motors only, not plunge routers (although there designing one ) so the plunger issue won't be a problem . I have the PC75182 already .

I'm looking forward to seeing your system though as I prefer home made tables . I want to but I feel obligated to purchase the GI that I ordered . But I will at some point build a RT


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well my table and lift etc from GI has been back ordered , so now I can go and try something different . One concern I had with GI is I didn't see a way to lock it down once you've found your position. Whether that matters I have no idea ?

Was thinking about a lift from Incra now but there all two post . I did like the fact that the one from GI was four , but not sure about other aspects with that lift .
I bought a bare bones PC75182 (motor only) so I pretty much need a lift


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

Four posts should be perfect It's only $369 for the lift alone, which is competitive.

The threaded posts is an interesting element. I am guessing that locking the thing proved to be a toe jam that they gave up on because you'd need to lock each post to cancel the play in the threaded shaft/riser nut at each post. So instead they rely on the play to work for them with gravity and down ward pressure of the routering operations. I'd be interested to see if this actually works and whether the lift can chatter. 

Threaded connections also have side play and four posts may cancel some of that, but they can't cancel all of it. 

Before I bought one I'd want a demo and I'd prefer to bring an indicator and stand to a show to see about any play in the thing. 

Maybe I'm wrong about all of this and they are using very tight Roller balls in the lift - - Doesn't look like it though and they are not making that claim - - which they would if they spent the money on it.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

If I can jump in here. I also built a router lift. I think when considering a lift it should have a few key factors. 
Easy bit changes. This would not include bending down and reaching in under the table.

Must be able to make height adjustments from the top.

Router doesn't hang on a plate or from the table top. Most will sag. some will have flush flat issues.

Must have the ability to micro adjust the height. If you enjoy trial and error. No need for a good lift.

You should be able to remove the router in less than 30 seconds. Real time savers add up. You are more likely to use the tool if it's quick to change over.

Cost should and can be well under the price of the router you are going to use in it.

Al


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Do you guys do build threads here on this forum? I was planning on doing one on my router lift.

Al


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> Do you guys do build threads here on this forum? I was planning on doing one on my router lift.
> 
> Al


Do it!


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

Al B Thayer said:


> Must be able to make height adjustments from the top.


About that - - - - - 

A year or so after my above the table router lift build I have discovered that there are down sides to this option. 

Often enough I will have something covering the lift access that I can not move without breaking down the whole setup. 

I have decided that if and when I build another that the lock, up and down, and angle (If I go with an angle setting too), will be accessed from the side of the table and not the top.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

CR1 said:


> About that - - - - -
> 
> A year or so after my above the table router lift build I have discovered that there are down sides to this option.
> 
> ...


I wish there were electric lifts available . I see one buts it's discontinued I believe .
I think being able to raise the bit hands free as your working would be the ultimate in certain situations


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I held out a long time before buying a lift. I was using an old Craftsman router bench. It was maybe 16" wide and 24" long. Had a fixed Porter Cable in it.

I truly loathed using it but it did the job. Just took me a LOT of time setting it up and securing it to something so that it did not fall over or slide. I worked like this for many years as router lifts grew in popularity and designs improved.

I really wanted a router lift but at the time, none of the designs really flipped my switch. Then, Woodpeckers came out with the PRL V2 that had mounting pads for the 5625-20 Milwaukee, above table adjustment without a crank handle, and fine tune adjustment right on the plate with a dial that can be zeroed for fine adjustment.

I do a lot of fine joinery, so it made sense for me to upgrade. I am also getting older and lifting a router in and out of its bay is no longer an option with my back situation. If you do not do a lot of woodwork or do not build fine joinery like those made with the Incra system, a router lift may be overkill for your needs. On the other hand, I hate buying a tool to save money only to upgrade latter because I was too cheap to buy what I wanted in the first place. So, as I get older, I buy the best I can afford and do it once. The lack of aggravation from an inferior product is high on my priority list now a days.

But, the original post has merit. You must weigh how often you do a process and decide if the investment is worth it to you and your applications.


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## Nbowes (Apr 1, 2012)

i have a hole in the top of my table saw. easy to adjust and pop out. I use a blank filler plater when I don't need the router. Why?? one day dropped a screw into the router and cooked the motor


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Good warning.
I should put down a piece of paper to cover the router hole on my table. I don't have a plate.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nbowes said:


> i have a hole in the top of my table saw. easy to adjust and pop out. I use a blank filler plater when I don't need the router. Why?? one day dropped a screw into the router and cooked the motor


Wow good point . I was debating to build a filler plate for mine and now you've given me yet another reason too do so


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Wow good point . I was debating to build a filler plate for mine and now you've given me yet another reason too do so


Yep. Went out to the shop and pulled the router bit, cleaned it, and installed my cover plate.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I have an Incra V2 lift on route . I didn't want the plate that came with the table so they gave me a rebate and are sending the lift instead .
I have to say Neil at Incra is a nice guy to deal with , and I will be buying many more of there products in the future.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Well guys I have an Incra V2 lift on route . I didn't want the plate that came with the table so they gave me a rebate and are sending the lift instead .
> I have to say Neil at Incra is a nice guy to deal with , and I will be buying many more of there products in the future.


Welcome to the club!:sold:

Now you will have to make time to put a table together.

I, on the other hand, am chasing plumbing parts and soldering equipment.

Send us some photos or it never happened.

And I hope we do not have to wait long for an in depth review.


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

RainMan1 said:


> I wish there were electric lifts available . I see one buts it's discontinued I believe .
> I think being able to raise the bit hands free as your working would be the ultimate in certain situations


build one
Bill's motorized router lift


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## Loophole (Jul 29, 2013)

do you make height adjustments by removing the router when there is a fence clamped in position over the router plate?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Mike said:


> Having seen lifts in action I can assure you I change my bits and make height adjustments faster by popping the router out of the table.


I seriously doubt it.

And who would want to?

You risk dropping the router, every time you change a bit.



Mike said:


> This is why mounting plates were developed.


And mounting plates were not developed to aid in bit changes. Mounting plates were developed so one could use any number of available routers in any number of router table offerings by different mfgs.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Loophole said:


> do you make height adjustments by removing the router when there is a fence clamped in position over the router plate?


No, no need to remove the router to make height adjustments, only to change bits.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Before I got my lift, I pulled router out every time I changed bits The router plates serve both functions mentioned very well. The risk of dropping the router while changing bits isn't any more than changing the bits on a hand held router. In my opinion, this is very minimal risk.

That said, now that I have lift, I have found bit changes are MUCH faster since I don't have to pull the router out of the table


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## Strobe7 (Jan 20, 2015)

Relative said:


> Agree wholeheartedly with this. I researched for a router for my table that met various criteria, one of which was to adjust from above. I selected the Milwaukee 5625-20 even though I still would have to reach underneath to unlock/lock the body. Turns out to be a huge disappointment. As I try to raise the bit, the router slips back down one thread and I get no progress unless I reach underneath and 'help' lift it as I crank. The 'quick release' button is the culprit but I find no fix nor help from Milwaukee.
> 
> This is a big router that I don't like the idea of using by hand. This is also a situation where it looks like I might be springing for one of those lifts some time in the future.
> 
> Mike


Hi, I had this same problem with my ryobi which occurred both with normal height adjustment and my modified above table adjustment.

I solved the problem however once I found a grub screw on the side of the router next to the 'quick release' button and by tightening so the quick release is no longer functional and securing with loctite I no longer have that issue.

I do however have 1 minor inconvience that the quick release obviously no longer works and I have to raise and lower by turning the depth changer, but I would never undo this change.

I know this advice is much later then your original post so if you found a better solution I'd be happy to here how you fixed the problem


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## Lidcombe (Nov 16, 2014)

*my version of a router lift*

I have a makita plunge router mounted in the bench.
My version of the router lift is a cradle for the router raised by a wooden thread.
Once at the required height, I lock the router in place with the leaver ( to stop accidental vibration movement.
Change bits from the top. I do need to put one hand under to lock the spindle.
Works well for me, and I made all the parts myself. 
Except for the timber, the only cost was my time.


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## Davif (Nov 24, 2014)

I've used the PC8529 for years on my router table. You only need to purchase a mounting plate. It's easily adjusted from the top and bit can be changed from the top to. All this is built into the router. 

I agree with others here. Big items are routed by hand and small items on the table but I wold also add that big router bits should only be used on a table.


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## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

Mike, I want to thank you for starting this thread. It has changed my thinking a lot. I'll probably build something eventually, but for now I'm going slow and going to do a lot of reading on this forum. I also started reading books by Bill Hylton as a result of reading around on here.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

When it comes to ease of use and accuracy. Some lifts do well. Some not so well. But none do as much as this lift.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz9ppSlrphc&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Al


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