# CarveWright are you listening?



## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

I hope someone from CarveWright reads this. I am not a happy customer...
I attended the Fort Worth woodworking show a couple of weeks ago and finally did something I had been wanting to do for a long time. Since I had some money coming from the IRS I broke down and bought a CarveWright CNC machine. I received the machine within a couple of days and got it set up properly, as per instructions. I prepared my first project with the software and started to upload it to the flash memory card. That's when the problems started. I kept getting a “Flash Error” message. I talked to tech support and they said to try a couple of different things. I kept fooling with it and finally got the project to upload without the error message. I took the flash memory card to the machine, turned it on and the machine said it couldn't read the card. Tech support said to send the card and programmer back for testing. It cost $5.95 to ship by US mail and insure the package for $100. It took them a week to determine what I already knew; the card was bad. They claim that the machine is fully tested before shipment??? They said they will ship my programmer and a new memory card to me. And now for “The Rest Of The Story”... They charged me $12.99 for shipping. Over twice what it cost to ship it to them. I asked why so much and they said company policy was to ship by UPS because they have a contract with them to insure shipments. I feel that if they really cared about their customers I shouldn't have to pay anything to replace a faulty piece of equipment. At the least it shouldn't cost more than twice to ship it back than it cost for me to ship it to them. I sure hope that this isn't an omen of things to come....


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## Hutzul (Oct 4, 2012)

*Not right imo !!*

I think you are quite right in what you say, but I aint sure of consumer rights in USA, being a Limey ;*).

I reckon here in Britain if goods were found to be faulty ( like yours were), all your postage costs would be refunded, and as a token of goodwill, and public relations for your frustration, a voucher or a freebie would be given as an apologetic gesture.

The fact that you have posted is not going to help future sales for this company and rightly so if they are so inconsiderate towards their customers.

In my opinion such businesses rarely last long when they get a bad reputation.

Hope all goes right for you from now on


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

The tech told you what he was told - Before I retired I reported to a CEO in the industrial markets. He signed the same deal with UPS, except the insurance turned-out to be rebates, that went into his pockets; not the company coffers. A short letter to the mother company stopped this practice and the exodus of customers. Strange how I could never find reference to a matching cash outflow in the UPS annual report. Grizzly has recently started shipping with a combined UPS/USPS agreement and the customer pays shipping both ways. I returned a $12.00, defective, 10oz (packed) item and shipping to me was $9.85 and I was charged $6.00 back and restocking fee for a discontinued item that was discontinued after it was shipped to me, they were kind enough not to give me any credit. I was going to purchase a Gunsmithing lathe and knee mill this year - guess who will not get the business.

You have my empathy on this one - Baker


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

CarveWright may not be listening but I am and will not do business with them in the future. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I will message Connie about this George. CarveWright has always been very good to work with.


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## lynnfrwd (May 25, 2011)

As per our warranty contract, customers are responsible for shipping. Items over $40 are shipped UPS because of their reliability of paying claims for damaged or lost packages. Our minimum shipping and handling fee is $12. 

Customer Service was following company policy in asking for the shipping payment. As their supervisor, I do have the limited ability to accommodate the customer in certain cases. This would have been one in which I would have approved, if asked. 

While I do not set company policy, I will share this with those decision-makers tomorrow. 

George, you are welcomed to contact me tomorrow, but not between 10 & 11 (we will be meeting and you can guess what our topic of discussion will be).

Have a great rest of your weekend. 

Thanks again, Mike. 

Connie


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## RingNeckBlues (Apr 30, 2012)

George,

Do as Connie stated and give her a call. I am certain she will be able to get things straightened out for you. 

One thing I have learned when calling into a business with an issue and not liking what I am being told is to ask for the next level up. Most times the first person you are talking to is following some type of guide line set for them and you have to go up a step to get things corrected to your satisfaction.


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

As a long time Carvewright customer I have had good and bad experiances. (mostly good). However, what has happen to "Doing what is right for the customer policy". 
I do not feel one should have to ask the supplier to "do what is right" twice/more.

Connie.. I have an issue you may also like to address in your meeting. I just purchased a part J0005 (flat ribbon cable) and the min shipping cost was more than the part cost.


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## lynnfrwd (May 25, 2011)

I know, Gino. Minimum is $12 and that doesn't go up until you hit 3 lbs. I know that doesn't help, if you only need one thing, but we suggest you try to consolidate spares or other items into one order.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Gino0105 said:


> As a long time Carvewright customer I have had good and bad experiances. (mostly good). However, what has happen to "Doing what is right for the customer policy".
> I do not feel one should have to ask the supplier to "do what is right" twice/more.
> 
> Connie.. I have an issue you may also like to address in your meeting. I just purchased a part J0005 (flat ribbon cable) and the min shipping cost was more than the part cost.


Gino,

That's life everywhere. When ordering from Sears Partsdirect or BlackandDeckerDewaltPorterCableDelta, I wind up packing the shopping cart with 'just in case' spare parts to make it worth the while.

Of course, these days, if I have it shipped to the store I wind up paying the equivalent shipping costs on the 2 gallons of gas it takes to get there and back.


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## thebookman (Nov 24, 2011)

*Shipping Charge*

You will find a good many woodworking suppliers and many others use UPS for their discounted rates to suppliers. I've been shipping many thousand books over the years and started out using UPS but they are triple USPS for the same weight and items with very few exceptions. What happens UPS gives them discounted fees but they charge regular fees which are higher because we get home delivery and they have surcharges. Its all about the kick back and not the insurance issue. I receive claims from USPS way shorter than what I had to wait for UPS. Now I just search for free shipping or USPS option or I don't order it. Delivery and shipping is a profit center for them and not a function of sales.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Bottom line a good company doesn't rip the customer off by nickel and dimeing him like this. It costs too much to attract a customer to loose him over a few dollars. If the company can't afford to pay shipping how stable is it?


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

kp91 said:


> Gino,
> 
> That's life everywhere. When ordering from Sears Partsdirect or BlackandDeckerDewaltPorterCableDelta, I wind up packing the shopping cart with 'just in case' spare parts to make it worth the while.
> 
> Of course, these days, if I have it shipped to the store I wind up paying the equivalent shipping costs on the 2 gallons of gas it takes to get there and back.


Doug.
Your point is true but this does not justify the high shipping costs by all companies stated. Is this "doing what is right for the customer". My issue is that the flat ribbon cable I ordered could be shipped in a standard envelope and including handling cost for less than $1.00. If you do the math $12.00 vs even $2.00 ????

I only offered this as feedback to any good company.
PS: I no longer purchase tools from Sears

take care my friend
Gino


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

kp91 said:


> Gino,
> 
> That's life everywhere. When ordering from Sears Partsdirect or BlackandDeckerDewaltPorterCableDelta, I wind up packing the shopping cart with 'just in case' spare parts to make it worth the while.
> 
> Of course, these days, if I have it shipped to the store I wind up paying the equivalent shipping costs on the 2 gallons of gas it takes to get there and back.


2 gallon of gas around here can be very close to $8.00! If your it takes that much gas and your time is worth anything at all, not to mention other non-gas operating cost, maybe $12 shipping and handling isn't that outrageous!

Also when shipping* is* free, do you really believe that it isn't built into the cost of the product you buy? Just sayin...


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## lynnfrwd (May 25, 2011)

As promised, shipping concerns were discussed with the decision-makers this morning.

For this OP (original poster), the cost would have been accommodated and this thread avoided. As for changing our policy, it has been decided that for customers that have a part that is "dead out of the box" - never worked, our Customer Service reps will NOT be asking for the return shipping cost.

As for the other, shipping is not built into our price and minimum is still $12. For some, that is a deal and others it is not such a good deal. It depends on several factors including where you live. Some customer deliveries take almost all of the $12, while others don't. Whether you live in remote Washington state or the other side of Houston, it still takes personnel to package and QA your order. That $12 cost from LHR has not increased in 4 years.

LHR has been in business for over 6 years, now. I don't believe we are going away because of shipping charges. We have continued to provide our customers a great product regularly adding software features and accessories that allow them to produce fantastic projects at the lowest cost of any other CNC. 

Good Customer Service IS very important to us and we do try to accommodate our customers when we err (and we occasionally do). We address customer concerns and attempt to do what is best for our company to continue serving all of our customers.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

*Thank You Connie*

" As for changing our policy, it has been decided that for customers that have a part that is "dead out of the box" - never worked, our Customer Service reps will NOT be asking for the return shipping cost."

Connie, I am glad to see something good came of this thread and thank you for getting this straightened out after talking with you today. I didn't intend for this to turn anyone off toward the LRH company and I am looking forward to getting to use my CarveWright machine. I am much happier with your customer service now and I urge others to not take this post as a negative but as a positive because of the policy change. This shows your company is not deaf to it's customer's concerns.

Thanks also to Mike for contacting Connie.

Thank you very much.


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## opticsguy (Nov 9, 2012)

*carvewright*

I was in the market for a CNC machine and seriously looked at the Carverwright. Never have I ever seen so much negative comments and experiences and difficulties with a company than with Carvewright. I did a lot of research before coming to this conclusion. Respectfully, for me, I would never buy any product from this company. Hope your future dealings will go much better!!!


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## lynnfrwd (May 25, 2011)

opticsguy said:


> I was in the market for a CNC machine and seriously looked at the Carverwright. Never have I ever seen so much negative comments and experiences and difficulties with a company than with Carvewright. I did a lot of research before coming to this conclusion. Respectfully, for me, I would never buy any product from this company. Hope your future dealings will go much better!!!


Make sure you look at the dates of those complaints, evaluate if it was truly a machine issue (and there were some in the beginning with the way the old-style Quick Change chuck held or didn't hold a bit) or if these complaints are user errors. Consider also that an unhappy customer will posts much more often than someone that is happy and consider that CarveWright has more machines in the field and has been doing it longer than any other "desktop" cnc.

Thousands & thousand of machines were initially sold through Sears as the CompuCarve by reps that had NO knowledge about the machines or how to direct customers expectations of them having to learn the software (many bought their first computers to use the machine) and to properly prepare their projects and how to maintain the machine. A servo motor communicates with the customer on the LCD to tell them where there may be an issue and many thought basic instructions meant that their machine was broken. 

Having plans to go on the market in late Spring of 2007, when a big company like Sears says "no, we want to sell them during the Christmas season" of 2006, you do, even if it means doing so without educational tools or support. (Have that now!)

Most CW/CC folks post on the CarveWright forum, where you will find a fantastic family of happy owners more than willing to share lots of help, lots of successes, lots of praise and lots of fantastic projects. There are tons of tools and videos to teach you now, but you must be willing to do your homework. With the new Version C model and its CarveTight spindle, a good set of Heavy Duty Traction Belts, a dust collection insert, and our software, there is no limit to what customers are doing.

LHR has, occasionally, been at fault (we are a small company of humans) and we have never been able to make ALL of our customers happy. I'm sure there will be skeptics, those dedicated to other machines, or those that just feel they've been wronged that will continue to add to this thread with their thoughts, beliefs or experiences. I'm just as confident any CW/CC owners on this forum (there's a couple) will also post the positives.

(I'll try to stay out of it.)


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

lynnfrwd said:


> As promised, shipping concerns were discussed with the decision-makers this morning.
> 
> For this OP (original poster), the cost would have been accommodated and this thread avoided. As for changing our policy, it has been decided that for customers that have a part that is "dead out of the box" - never worked, our Customer Service reps will NOT be asking for the return shipping cost.
> 
> ...


Connie,

It's probably not any of my business but I think George should also be reimbursed for shipping charges he incurred to ship *CarveWright's defective part* back to CarveWright. George paid for a *working machine* and paid the shipping charges to have a *working machine* sent to him and the company fail to send him a *working machine*!

When I was looking around to buy a CNC there was a similar incident that a customer had and I did not agree with the companies response, that if he wanted his new machine, right out of the box, to work he would have to pay to send the defective part back and pay to have a new part sent. Needless to say I did not buy from CarveWright!

Just my opinion!!


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

MEBCWD said:


> Connie,
> 
> It's probably not any of my business but I think George should also be reimbursed for shipping charges he incurred to ship *CarveWright's defective part* back to CarveWright. George paid for a *working machine* and paid the shipping charges to have a *working machine* sent to him and the company fail to send him a *working machine*!
> 
> ...


Mike, Thanks for your support. But, in all fairness, I paid no shipping charges when I purchased the machine at the woodworking show. They had brought some machines to the show and had sold out, so I got free shipping as part of the deal. I really didn't mind paying the small amount of $5.95 (including insurance) to ship the defective part back , but I didn't agree with having to pay over twice that to have it shipped back to me. After talking with Connie my shipping concerns have since been taken care of and I am very happy that the company paid attention to customer concerns by changing their return policy for defective "out of the box" parts.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Sorry George,
I thought you had paid shipping for the machine, but they still should have made the effort to see that you had a working machine.

Also I do appreciate the things Connie does here for the forum members.

Part of my rant is I getting older in my old age and have recently been charged $12.65 for UPS shipping and received the package by USPS with $2.68 marked as the postage. They say that UPS partners with USPS for shipping their smaller items and UPS receives the shipping we pay. SO if that is correct UPS does nothing for $9.97 and USPS does all the work for $2.68. No wonder USPS is closing some of the rural post offices and cutting the number of days or hours at others.

Sorry! Ranting Again!


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

MEBCWD said:


> Sorry George,
> I thought you had paid shipping for the machine, but they still should have made the effort to see that you had a working machine.
> 
> Also I do appreciate the things Connie does here for the forum members.
> ...


Jeesh, Mike! Follow the tracking on one and you will find that isn't true. They are passed off to the USPS for final delivery, but UPS transports it to that hand off point, which will very depending on where you live.

It is a bit strange though, as the ability to track ends where the USPS takes over!

PS probably $5.00(give or take) of that went to the company that shipped the product! That would leave UPS 4.97 for their effort! That one _does_ bug me some. Sometimes the "handling" makes the company more than the product! But.... if it wasn't that way, prices for the product would just go up. There really is no free lunch!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

DOA is just that, should be no charge of any type to get the machine working and a refund (shipping charge) on parts that had to be replace..

======


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## jsjohnst (Apr 23, 2013)

*Bad Choice*

I also purchased CaveWright machine several years ago and for the part it up and running only about 50% of the time. When I would have a order that I would have to use the machine I would not guarantee a delivery date. I figured it cost about $30 a hour in just repairs to use it. I had it about three years and spend about $1,500 in repairs and up grades. Sold it about a year ago and got Digital Wood Carver Machine out Indiana. digitalwoodcarver.com


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

George
Are saying that you have never used this machine and that it would not work right out the box and you are paying for parts being ship to you ( I do not need anything from this company) thanks for the information


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## sawduster12 (May 3, 2014)

Hi, first post. newbe to heavy woodworking. Just bought new Carvewright C machine.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

I think the basic point in this entire manner is a simple one. If your purchase has any type of defect, the mfgr should be responsible for all ship charges. Mine you, the customer will pay the ship charges back but once it is deemed a defective part that money is refunded and the replacement parts is shipped at the expense of the mfgr..

Why should a customer be responsible in any way for a problem created by the vendor?

When I purchased my Techno CNC Router the spindle speed controller was not programmed. No matter what speed I called out in the software the spindle would only turn 6000 rpm. We tried to correct the situation via phone and email without success. I didn't realize the spindle wasn't at the correct speed. (I was new to CNC routers at that time). A rep from the factory drove down to my shop (200 miles) and recognized the problem right away and programmed the controller (No charges). All has been well over the 9 years I have run the machine and am happy with the factory response to the problem.

Good customer service is the key to success !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello Charlie , Hope you like and enjoy the router forums make yourself at Home.  Please participate by asking and answering questions, that is what makes this forum work!
Again welcome.


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## RingNeckBlues (Apr 30, 2012)

sawduster12 said:


> Hi, first post. newbe to heavy woodworking. Just bought new Carvewright C machine.


Charlie,

Welcome to the CarveWright. Make sure you also get signed up on the CarveWright users forum CarveWright Users' Forum


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## sawduster12 (May 3, 2014)

Semipro said:


> Hello Charlie , Hope you like and enjoy the router forums make yourself at Home.  Please participate by asking and answering questions, that is what makes this forum work!
> Again welcome.


Ok, I'll update my bio information shortly. 

Right now I am trying to sort out a lot of information and opinions about the CarveWright C machine.
To be fair I am trying to balance all the opinions, good and bad. Vis a Vis my 3 week experience with this new machine and software. I need to talk more with CarveWright tech support to get some situations i am having resolved.

More to come. 

Charlie


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

I have owned a CW machine for several yrs and would be glad to help you in any way. Feel free to contact me.


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

C:\Users\Gino\Pictures/Rocco's bike2


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## ljbuller (Oct 19, 2010)

A quick message to introduce myself. I am Larry Buller from Buller Enterprises, Inc. in Bismarck, ND. We manufacture the Panel Pro which is geared towards the Aircraft industry. The spindle motor we use is either the Porter Cable 892 2 1/4 hp , or Milwaukee 5925, 3 1/2 hp unit. After having some tool run out issues I started lurking here.

We have resorted to making a grinding fixture to true up the collet bores in both of these machines. Amazingly, .008 runout 1" away from the collet nut is acceptable for these companies. While we do not offer this service to the general public, if there is enough interest, we may supply accurized routers or offer an accurizing service. Large diameter cutters are a bit less sensitive to run out, but if you have a .005 tip engraving cutter and the end is wobbling .008" you may very well be cutting on the back edge of a flute. On the 1/8" end mills, run out may be exhibited by poor surface finish.

The Porter Cable 1/2" router collets can frequently be "clocked" to offset the error in the collet bore. The only problem is that when you remove the cutter, you do not know how to replace it in the same orientation. Our Panel Pro customers use 1/8 end mills with a 1/8 or 3/16 shank and use our 1/2" to ER11 adapters. These can stay put and not disturb the clocking. 

Another issue that we have confronted is that it appears Porter Cable has installed a 15000 rpm bearing in a 24000 rpm motor. The grease can cook and harden in these bearings, so we have offered to replace the bearings for our Panel Pro customers with ceramic bearings rated at 40000 rpm.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

ljbuller said:


> Another issue that we have confronted is that it appears Porter Cable has installed a 15000 rpm bearing in a 24000 rpm motor. The grease can cook and harden in these bearings, so we have offered to replace the bearings for our Panel Pro customers with ceramic bearings rated at 40000 rpm.


That has been a major issue with PC routers for many years. It is the weak link in otherwise quality routes.

I have found most major router makers have installed spindle bearings that are only rated for 60 to 65% of the router rpm range.

For this reason, I keep a stock of bearings.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

subtleaccents said:


> That has been a major issue with PC routers for many years. It is the weak link in otherwise quality routes.
> 
> I have found most major router makers have installed spindle bearings that are only rated for 60 to 65% of the router rpm range.
> 
> For this reason, I keep a stock of bearings.


then Bosch must be the exception...


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> then Bosch must be the exception...


I stopped buying Bosch routers (1604) when it merged with Skil. At that time there quality went downhill. When they changed the motor cases to plastic, the plastic would expand in the aluminium base as the motor warmed up and you could not adjust the depth until the motor cooled off. 

Haven't purchased a Bosch router since then so I cannot comment on the newer model.

They made a big mistake when they discontinued the model 1600 "D" handle router. That was an excellent unit. I keep that in tip top shape since I cannot replace it.

So I don't know if they are an exception.


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