# Advice on sealing a picnic table?



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Well my first major project order I have been waiting on was cancelled so I got annoyed and threw together an octagon picnic table. First thing I've built and it turned out great other than the lumber I had to use ( I ordered it as pick up and had to make best with what they gave me). I didn't want to use treated lumber and just used your standard box store lumber mix of pine/fir/ect. I have it all done and sanded down but need some good advice on what exactly to use to seal it properly. 

I've looked around online and there are tons of people swearing by certain products but I figured I'd come here for advice. Right now I was looking at getting a marine varnish but read it might get sticky if its in the heat, not sure if that is true or not. What is everyone's opinions on the best way to properly go about sealing the table up and the process in doing it? I plan on putting it on the stone patio I made if that matters at all.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Eric; what's the year round climate like where you are?
Here it's warm and dry for July and August, and rains a lot the rest of the year. _Nothing_ works as advertised. I'd mentioned before that I had this conversation with our Parks Maintenance guys.
They tell me that they've tried everything on the market on their park benches and tables, and nothing lasts longer than about three years.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Our climate is mostly dry, with some heavy cloud bursts, and extremely hot for 3 months of the year. No wood looks good after 3 years. Even the plain board fence we have has to be treated every other year.

Go for what you like, and be prepared to do it again next winter.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Eric; what's the year round climate like where you are?
> Here it's warm and dry for July and August, and rains a lot the rest of the year. _Nothing_ works as advertised. I'd mentioned before that I had this conversation with our Parks Maintenance guys.
> They tell me that they've tried everything on the market on their park benches and tables, and nothing lasts longer than about three years.


I live in Western, NY about 2 hours from Buffalo. Generally summer is about 3 months. It is fairly dry and generally 75 degrees would be the average. . Spring lasts about a month and a half-2 months with the other months being a mix of bordering seasons with winter which is pretty cold. 



sunnybob said:


> Our climate is mostly dry, with some heavy cloud bursts, and extremely hot for 3 months of the year. No wood looks good after 3 years. Even the plain board fence we have has to be treated every other year.
> 
> Go for what you like, and be prepared to do it again next winter.


The table will be under a bunch of Maple Trees so it won't be in direct sun. Have you guys ever tried using the Marine varnish?


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I recently built an outdoor bench to sit on from time to time. Minwax advised their gel stain to suit and then 4 coats of their Helsman. I live in southern Missouri. I'm sure you will get lots of opinions.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I find it hard to believe that marine varnish would melt in the sun. Lets face it, a boat is in the sun every day of its life. Can you imaging people using a product that stuck to their feet and bodies everytime the walked across or laid down on a deck?

The only way I can picture that happening would be for the varnish to be applied way too thick in the first place.


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## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

I built a picnic table & sideboard out of pine; applied some penetrating oil stain when it was done. Worked just fine. When we moved 3 years later, I was asked to paint the set to match our patio, so it went gray with latex. Paint got re-applied as needed, and the set lasted 20 years in Southern California.

Treated lumber? Marine varnish? Waterproofing? HA!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

96BelisleAs said:


> Right now I was looking at getting a marine varnish but read it might get sticky if its in the heat, not sure if that is true or not. What is everyone's opinions on the best way to properly go about sealing the table up and the process in doing it? I plan on putting it on the stone patio I made if that matters at all.


I honestly doubt there is a way to get any sort of perfect long lasting finish on any outside wood.

But from my years of experience in the boat building and repair business, I can tell you that varnish will not get "sticky" in hot weather. I don't know who came up with that one.

Like moist finishes, marine spar varnish needs an essentially perfect surface to work its' best. Then you need to put 7 coats on the wood...yes 7. That's just for the first time to give it a good build up.

Then after that you should add a coat every year after a light sanding.

Another excellent alternative is Cetol, also used in the marine environment. We usually use Cetol on Teak and it has a slight yellowing effect.

Sun is the enemy of any wood finish, so if you are in shade most of the time I think you can expect success with either of the above. The trouble is that it is a long and time consuming process.

On many outside cedar decks - I suppose in a way similar to your table - I have used the Danish oil. However, it doesn't last anywhere near as long as the manufacturers claim and is hard to keep clean once it gets dirty. Varnish or Cetol makes for a harder, more durable surface finish than does the oil.

I doubt there is any one perfect answer to your prayers.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have used quality house paint with some success.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...quality house paint"
-Herb

Are you talking pre latex era? The old Linseed oil based stuff? The stuff that was better'n Kevlar...
Man, you couldn't get that stuff off if you wanted to.

_'Better Living Through Chemistry' _or something.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "...quality house paint"
> -Herb
> 
> Are you talking pre latex era? The old Linseed oil based stuff? The stuff that was better'n Kevlar...
> ...


Yeah, probably banned now a days. it took a good primer underneath to keep from blistering and peeling in the hot sun.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lead.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Recently, I modified a spool that once held electrical cable. We added boards to the top of one end to make a round table 32 inches wide. I sprayed Thompson's Water Seal using a garden sprayer. That stuff just makes the water stand on top in bubbles. If need be, I can spray it again later as needed.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I think they changed the formulation a few years back, Mike. I seem to remember there being an issue with one or more of the ingredients. Maybe solvent?
Perhaps someone remembers?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I think they changed the formulation a few years back, Mike. I seem to remember there being an issue with one or more of the ingredients. Maybe solvent?
> Perhaps someone remembers?


Just in Kalifornia! >


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh...
Nope; here too. Same as, come to think of it...


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I think they changed the formulation a few years back, Mike. I seem to remember there being an issue with one or more of the ingredients. Maybe solvent?
> Perhaps someone remembers?


I used to love that stuff but I don't think it works as good any more. It's water-based now - wasn't it an oil before? Or is there different kinds of it available?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Paul; yeh, I checked out their website...they've got a lot of new products. 
Thompson's® WaterSeal® Deck Stains | Waterproofing Wood Deck Stains & Sealers

That 'Penetrating Timber Oil' sounds interesting...kind of backs up your point about the old "oil" (?) formulation?
Thompson's WaterSeal Penetrating Timber Oil | Australian Timber Oil | Timber Oil Stain

As their website explains, the original product was an industrial product for sealing concrete and masonry.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Well I only sanded the top of the table and the seats I am curious how poor it will look without sanding some of the more visible parts of it and staining it. I hit it with an orbital sander with 150, and again with 220 sand paper. Other than knots and a few spots where the grains are separating a little its extremely smooth. I bought Minwax Penetrating Stain (Natural) and Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane. I guess we'll see how it goes. I've already had a few people ask about them so I think if I start building them for other people I might spend the little extra and use treated lumber, it'll probably off set the cost and time of staining and sealing everything. If I remember I'll post some pictures up before I start staining.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Treated lumber also needs a sealer over it otherwise it will degrade and lose its effectiveness. The old stuff, CCA, was fairly toxic and prolonged skin contact wasn't recommended. The new stuff, ACQ, is supposed to be much less toxic but I don't know if you are still supposed to avoid prolonged contact with it. To be safe I would still coat it with something.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Treated lumber also needs a sealer over it otherwise it will degrade and lose its effectiveness. The old stuff, CCA, was fairly toxic and prolonged skin contact wasn't recommended. The new stuff, ACQ, is supposed to be much less toxic but I don't know if you are still supposed to avoid prolonged contact with it. To be safe I would still coat it with something.


I could have swore when I read the specifications on the treated lumber at Lowe's it said you couldn't stain or varnish it for 2 months. The wood I already used started to split at the ends a little bit before I could even get to staining it, probably because it was kilned quickly. Here are a couple pics of the progress.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I could have swore when I read the specifications on the treated lumber at Lowe's it said you couldn't stain or varnish it for 2 months."
-Eric

You're right, Eric. I've tried to do it earlier (I think it's actually a year...2 months doesn't sound right) and the finish just comes off in a matter of months. I think the ACQ solution is just too chemically active to get a proper bond; it needs to weather.
Perhaps there's a way to 'cool' the surface down, prior to sealing? Mind you, you wouldn't want to neutralize it's biological effectiveness.
The moisture content of the ACQ lumber is off the chart when it comes from the treatment plant...it'll take a loooong time to get down below 15%. No point in even thinking about paint or stain until then. 
_(They do sell PT lumber that's *K*iln *D*ried *A*fter *T*reatment. I've never actually seen it in a lumberyard. Maybe the Big Box guys?)_


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

after all this did everyone remember to seal the parts/end grain/flats w/ heated wax that are in ground/concrete/stone contact to control water moisture wicking for at least ½'' up the material...
adding nylon feet is a major plus to...

.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh great, Stick; catalogue numbers but no source?! That's just cruel.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Very nice table.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "I could have swore when I read the specifications on the treated lumber at Lowe's it said you couldn't stain or varnish it for 2 months."
> -Eric
> 
> You're right, Eric. I've tried to do it earlier (I think it's actually a year...2 months doesn't sound right) and the finish just comes off in a matter of months. I think the ACQ solution is just too chemically active to get a proper bond; it needs to weather.
> ...





Stick486 said:


> after all this did everyone remember to seal the parts/end grain/flats w/ heated wax that are in ground/concrete/stone contact to control water moisture wicking for at least ½'' up the material...
> adding nylon feet is a major plus to...
> 
> .


Already thought about tossing feet on it. I never thought about sealing the ends with wax. I already stained it and let the end grains soak up as much as they wanted. My patio doesn't get a ton of water because the trees do a good job of redirecting even heavy rain but feet couldn't hurt. 

In case anyone was curious I found these old pics stored on the computer. The first two pics are when I first finished it a few years ago in late fall. The second two are the second step patio I added last year. It looks much nicer now with all the grass grown in and everything. The last pic is of the stone wall I had to build , its about 18' x 35'. Sorry for blurry pics its all I had. The river is directly in the back ground.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Oh great, Stick; catalogue numbers but no source?! That's just cruel.


so pick your poison and head off to the hardware store...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

96BelisleAs said:


> Already thought about tossing feet on it. I never thought about sealing the ends with wax.


you can still wax seal the ends...
in fact seal all end grain... really helps with keeping checking under control....
water that travels down the piece(s) and when it gets to the end grain and absorbed....
this water is the start of the demise of your outside wooden furniture....

sealing end grain is a very good plan...


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

With the last one all sealed and done, I got bored today and I started another one. Still have sanding and sealing to do.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

yowzer that is nice...


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Great table Eric. The mitred corners give it a really smart look.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks guys. Still worried about the interior planks of the table top and bench tops bowing and curling a bit so I might put in a bracing board but don't want it to ruin the look of the gap between the bordered miter boards and the interior planks.


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