# Question About Speed Of Lathe



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm wanting to buy a lathe. One of the main things that I'd like to do is to turn bowls and from what I'm reading on this forum is that one needs a machine that will turn pretty slow, maybe no faster than 100 RPMs when starting a bowl as large as 14 to 15 inches in diameter. So far all such lathes that will do that run close to two grand. Am I correct about what I'm finding i in regard to a new machine, or is the issue of the slow speed really that important? 

Jerry Bowen


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I'm wanting to buy a lathe. One of the main things that I'd like to do is to turn bowls and from what I'm reading on this forum is that one needs a machine that will turn pretty slow, maybe no faster than 100 RPMs when starting a bowl as large as 14 to 15 inches in diameter. So far all such lathes that will do that run close to two grand. Am I correct about what I'm finding i in regard to a new machine, or is the issue of the slow speed really that important?
> 
> Jerry Bowen


Jerry, I cannot answer your question on speed, but, if you are just buying a lathe and starting out, I would start on something smaller than a 14" bowl.

Please, for safety's sake, learn to crawl before you learn to run.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Jerry

I have to echo James concerns over speed. It's worth noting that the bigger the piece you are turning, the bigger the lathe bearings need to be and the greater the mass of the lathe needs to be (to handle the out of balance forces you invariably start with). That is why big lathes have such big price tickets. BTW the big "pro" lathes often have not only a wide range of speeds, but also incorporate inverter power suppies to control the speed of the motor down to very low speeds

Regards

Phil


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Jerry, I cannot answer your question on speed, but, if you are just buying a lathe and starting out, I would start on something smaller than a 14" bowl.
> 
> Please, for safety's sake, learn to crawl before you learn to run.


James,
You are telling me the same thing that my brother has told me. I hadn't thought about the issue of safety until you two pointed it out. I'll be taking that advise and re-think what you are saying. 'Thanks,

Jerry


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## damnitboy (Mar 3, 2012)

Howdy from Texas Jerry. When it comes to turning speed you have to consider what we refer to rim speed I.E, the smaller the diameter the more speed to maintain a constant. Besides having a construction company I have a couple of MFG companies that make products out of steel. We run mainly CNC machines and because of that if we are turning the face of a work piece the RPM of the spindle increases as you go from the larger diameter to the smaller controlled by the program. My experience is to jig up where you can stop the cut a few times to increase the RPM of the spindle. Sometimes you end up with a pecker mark when you stop but it gets down to "rim speed" or as we call it surface feet per minute. meaning look at a feed and speed chart and see what the rim speed is on different diameters. 100 rpm on a 14" diameter work piece is moving pretty good but the smaller the circumference of where your in the cut you will start getting tear out. Get the circumference of different parts of your cut and take that into consideration. Good luck and be safe, you are the most important machine in your shop.
-Eloy


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

The safety concern is a big why I recommend the smaller Delta lathe previously, unless you can afford a bigger machine with true VS. Personally, I would put variable speed as a higher priority over swing size when it comes to finding a lathe within your budget. 

Even a smaller bowl will require a slow speed until it is balanced. Most of the bowls I have turned have started out at 250 RPMs, the lathe's slowest speed. As the piece is balanced out, and made lighter during the course of turning, the speed can gradually been increased.

I have been turning on my lathe for over a year now. Honestly, it has not been an issue not having a swing larger then the 12.5" the Delta offers. If you want to do table legs, I would recommend getting the bed extension.

I recall you mentioning in an earlier post that you thought about compensating for not having the lower speed be doing a better job at the band saw. If you are cutting a thick bowl blank, it is tougher to keep on that line then you think it is. Plus you would have to pretty well have your blank perfectly centered. It would be extremely difficult to get a balanced piece straight off the band saw and on to the lathe. Lots of bad things can happen if you run an unbalanced piece too fast on the lathe.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I think the bottom line is if you buy a $500- $800 lathe, there are more things that you cannot or should not do. If you buy a $2000-$3000 lathe there are fewer thing that you cannot or should not be able to do. It is a rather general statement, I know, but it is just as true with lathes as with tablesaws, as with routers..... 

If you buy a trim router, you are probably not going to make raised panel doors with it! 

If you buy a $200 portable table saw, probably not going to cut too many 1" sheets of MDF on it!

Likewise, I would not recommend making a 15" bowl that is 6" deep on a mini/midi lathe. There are more issues with that than just speed!


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

*looked at a Jet*



NiceG316 said:


> The safety concern is a big why I recommend the smaller Delta lathe previously, unless you can afford a bigger machine with true VS. Personally, I would put variable speed as a higher priority over swing size when it comes to finding a lathe within your budget.
> 
> Even a smaller bowl will require a slow speed until it is balanced. Most of the bowls I have turned have started out at 250 RPMs, the lathe's slowest speed. As the piece is balanced out, and made lighter during the course of turning, the speed can gradually been increased.
> 
> ...


I recently looked a Jet, don't recall the model just now, but it said that the speed could be set from zero up to, and again I don't recall the higher RPM. That machine was in the two grand per copy class. I am thinking of waiting until I can afford that one. Then I can start with smaller projects until I learn about turning and eventually move up to larger ones. I do realize that balance is the big issue. 

What do you think of taking the work piece from the band saw after cutting just outside of a circle that has been drawn on it, to the sander and sanding down to the drawn circle. I know that this is not going to work completely but would be closer to balance and more round than just going straight from the BS to the lathe. In that I am speaking from zero experience, I am imagining starting at a very slow speed and firmly holding the knife on the tool rest so that the contact with the workpiece is a light as possible until one spot on the workpiece, thought only the width of the knife is rounded out and then slowly begin to move the knife sidways again with an extremely iight contact and/or cut until the workpice is finally rounded up. While I am only imagining, it seems to me that the real danger is trying to make those first cuts and that the danger would be minimized by running very slow and just barely kissing the workpiece with the knife. I am not in a great hurry to get the lathe since there is so much for me to learn with the tools that I already have. Right now, making a clamping system for the compound mitered picture frame is occupying my thinking time. Also, designing a really nice cedar chest that is solid oak and constructed of all jointery, no screws or hardward except for hinges and the clasp. I wish that i had access to to some three inch think oak lumber. I did recently buy a three inch thick piece of walnut that is eight inches wide and eight feet long. It was a little spendy, 180 bucks, but I thought that I needed it. Haven't used it yet, don't want to waste it. I also purchased my first piece of MDF it is 4x8 feet and three quarters of an inch thick. I think that I am going to use it to rebuild the table on the RAS. From what I am reading on this forum I think that I will move my cutting table outside and use the skill saw with a guide to rip it length wise into two 24" wide pieces. I'm still recoverying from my health issue that I dealt with last summer so my time in the shop has been limited. I just can't imagine what I would be doing with my time if I didn't have the shop and tools to keep me occupied. The activities here in Texas are so limited compared to what I was used to in living in Alaska. Haven't seen a moose or a caribou for almost ten years now and I do miss halibut and salmon fishing, but I do not miss the cold and the snow. That life is great for younger guys, but since I turned 75 this month I will just enjoy the memories of Alaska and the fun that I had when I lived there. Life in Texas isn't bad and having found this forum has greatly enhanced my enjoyment of my new found interest in wood working. I hope that I will become more proficient at it before I leave this world and go on to the next one. I've met several good friencs on the forum and really have appreciated all of the help and patience that you members have shown me.

Guess that I need to stop rambling, and submit this post.
By the way the model number on the Jet Lathe is JET708359

Jerry


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have a coworker that has that jet, it is a nice machine. The motor on it is actually a 3phase motor, which is why you are able to slow all the way down to 0 RPMs on it. The lathe has a built in phase convertor that allows you to run it on single phase 220. Saving up for that lathe is probably your best bet. 

Also, as you are saving and budgeting for your lathe, make sure you save another $500-$600 to get you going as well:

Safety Gear - A face shield is an *ABSOLUTE MUST*! I have a cheap 3M I got from Lowes. It has already saved me from at least one ER visit when a bowl broke on the lathe. There are some really nice, and high dollar ones out there from trend that offer air filtration as well.

Lathe Tools - Shop Around, and keep in mind buying a set isn't always the best option.
(Spindle Roughing Gouge, Spindle/Detail Gouge, Bowl Gouge, Parting Tool, Scraper, Skews, and so on. For the gouges, check out thompsonlathetools.com)

Sharpening - You will be sharpening tools frequently. I personally use a small 6" grinder with the wolverine jig. An 8" slow speed grinder is what is recommended. The wolverine jig from OneWay with the varigrind (not the varigrind 2!) attachment is STRONGLY recommended.

4 Jaw Chuck - Take a look at the Nova chucks. There are some kits out there that come with multiple jaw sets, and are a good value

The list can continue for quite a bit longer, but this will at the very least get you started. The reality is, you will spend more on tools and accessories in the long then you will on lathes. However, it is very much worth it!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Jerry Bowen said:


> James,
> You are telling me the same thing that my brother has told me. I hadn't thought about the issue of safety until you two pointed it out. I'll be taking that advise and re-think what you are saying. 'Thanks,
> 
> Jerry



Hi Jerry.

I understand from some of your posts that your brother has some experience on the lathe.

How many people have to tell you before you listen............( no offense intended)?


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

*I Get Your Drift*



jw2170 said:


> Hi Jerry.
> 
> I understand from some of your posts that your brother has some experience on the lathe.
> 
> How many people have to tell you before you listen............( no offense intended)?


James,
I hear you. My thinking has been that just because one has a large lathe that he does not need to do large projects on it. Anyway due to what Mike has explained about the cost of all of the accessories one needs that I am not going to step up for awhile anyway, that along with my wife telling me that I really don't need a lathe anyway and she is probably right. I have so much to learn with the tools that I have now. 

My brother once again emphasised the potential danger of running a lathe and that along with what others are saying about the danger has gotten my attention, so James, don't worry about me, there isn't going to be lathe in my shop for quite awhile now if every. Thanks for the concern, you did not offend me at all, I take it as a friendly warning as it was meant to be.

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

James,
I hear you. My thinking has been that just because one has a large lathe that he does not need to do large projects on it. Anyway due to what Mike has explained about the cost of all of the accessories one needs that I am not going to step up for awhile anyway, that along with my wife telling me that I really don't need a lathe anyway and she is probably right. I have so much to learn with the tools that I have now. 

My brother once again emphasised the potential danger of running a lathe and that along with what others are saying about the danger has gotten my attention, so James, don't worry about me, there isn't going to be lathe in my shop for quite awhile now if every. Thanks for the concern, you did not offend me at all, I take it as a friendly warning as it was meant to be.

Jerry


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## BernieW (Sep 12, 2006)

I am going to go against the grain here. Jerry I can say a lathe is no more dangerous than a table saw, a router, skill saw, etc. I own two lathes and feel safer on them than on my table saw. Now that being said all machines must be respected. As far as turning goes yes speed is a factor. For example when I start turning a bowl out of a blank I start at 100 rpm until it is round and balanced. As it gets more in balance I will up the speed. I generally turn bowls at around 800 to 900 rpm. After turning a few years I am comfortable there.

Here is a formula accepted by the turning community for safe speeds.

RPM = 6,000 to 9,000 divided by the diameter of the piece. This gives you a safe rpm for turning pieces such as bowls and vases. So a 16" bowl would be safe between 375 rpm and 560 rpm. 14" bowl between 430 rpm to 645 rpm. 10" bowl between 600 and 900 rpm. 

Mike in post #9 gave you a pretty good start. If you would like to start turning I would find a Rockler or Woodcraft near you and take a lesson or two to see if you will like it. If you do I would get as big a lathe as you can afford. You can turn little things on a big lathe but can't turn big things on a small lathe as Duane said in post #7. He gave you some sound advice. 

You can get a Jet 1642 either 220 V 2 hp or 115 V 1.5 hp. Speed range is from 0 to 3200 rpm. I have the Nova DVR XP. Speed is from 100 to 3500 rpm. As I said before I would not be anymore afraid of a lathe than a table saw. It comes down to respect the equipment you are working with. I am a self taught turner and have been turning many years. Take some lessons and talk with the turners at these meetings then make your judgement. 

Just my $1.298. Hope this helps.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Bernie, my comments were directed at a complete novice that had not used a lathe before.

Jerry is a novice with some of his machines, this is why he asks many questions before he tries.

I did not mean to infer that a large block could not be used on a lathe.

If i gave that impression, I apologize.

I bow before the master.......LOL.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I didn't mean to scare you away from turning either, but wanted to make sure you aware of the real costs to turning. I got my Delta at WIA 2012 for $535. This is actually my second lathe. I was given an old Delta Double Duty Lathe. After spending $20 at HF on a turning tool set, I was hooked. I had some guidance on another chatroom, but I got real creative for awhile on doing without some of those items I listed above. For awhile I turned with that lathe, those tools, and freehand sharpened on the bench grinder and belt sander. Most lathes come with a faceplate. You can turn bowls with that instead of a chuck. I also used that to make screw chucks and jamb chucks out of scrap wood. Even for the wolverine jig, I have seen others get creative on making their own out there.

For someone just getting started out turning, probably the biggest recommendation I can make is get a good sharpening system first. Unless you go with Easy Wood Tools, lathe tools dull quick and need frequent resharpening.

I also second what Bernie said about safety. Turning is no more dangerous then any other operation. The trick is sometimes lathe dangerous are not as obvious as those on a table saw, like not using a spindle gouge on a bowl. Just like you shouldn't make a full 4x8 sheet of plywood your very first cut on a table saw, you shouldn't make a bowl your first turning. 

Also, if I listened to my wife every time she said I didn't need a particular tool, I would not have a shop at all!


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## BernieW (Sep 12, 2006)

James no need to bow and no offense taken. I just didn't want to see him scared away from such a great hobby. I knew he was new and inexperienced. That is why I suggested he take some turning lesson at a Rockler or a Woodcraft or attend a demo or two at either place. That way he could see for himself if turning was for him or not. I wish I had a rockler or woodcraft close by but didn't. I take a couple of lesson from a turner about 150 miles from here which helped a bunch. 

So James all is square with the world as my late granddad would sy.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

all is square with the world.....


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Jerry.
> 
> I understand from some of your posts that your brother has some experience on the lathe.
> 
> How many people have to tell you before you listen............( no offense intended)?


James,
I appreciate your sincere concern for my safety and I do not take offense. I am just exploring the issues of buying a lathe and the issue of speed keeps coming up in regard to the larger workpieces, that is not to say that balance with even smaller pieces isn't importnt too. I see now that in order to get the really slow speed that a three phase motor and that probably isn't practical for me. Consequently there probably is not real need for a high dollar machine. So I'm back to the drawing board but that is alright in that I'm in any great hurry to make the purchase anyway.

Jerry


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## BernieW (Sep 12, 2006)

Jerry why don't you check out this lathe. Turncrafter Commander 12" Variable Speed Midi Lathe with Extension Bed at Penn State Industries Great midi lathe for the money and comes with a bed extension. Here is another lathe that would be a great starter lathe. Buy Jet 1221VS Lathe at Woodcraft.com I have it's little brother, this one. JET 1220VS Mini Lathe - Amazon.com

I think any of the above will serve you well for some time to come and you can keep it if you upgrade to a larger lathe. I can turn a 11 1/2" bowl which is pretty good size on my Jet 1220. Just some idea's. I turned for quite a while on a smaller lathe until I upgraded to my large lathe 5 yrs ago. Hope this helps.


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