# Dove tail slide fence system



## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

I hope this is the proper thread to post to. Attached is a drawing of the front view of the router table top and fence system.

I understand a picture is worth a thousand words but firmly believe it takes words to tell a story. I can envision a lot of questions so I don't know where to get started.

First I'll touch on though is the dovetail slide is a 60 degree angle. it extend through both sides of the table. The fence dovetails and locking gib are 4 in deep. the locking gib is 3/4 in wide and is pined to the fence to keep it from falling out. I'm planning making the gib out of hardwood. The dovetails will be hardwood attached to 1-1/2 thick MDF. Right now the finished table top size is 36 in across the front and 32 in deep.

A lot of details have been intentionally left out. Right now I'm just searching for comments on the basic concept.


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## Maxmilon (Dec 24, 2012)

Looks interesting. Will it have a way to be square to things like miter slides and other fixtures? Will the edges of the table be sharp and at kids forehead level?
It looks like it will hold the fence in place when you tighten the Knob.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Interesting concept, Rick.

Will you be able to move just one end and lock it, without the fence moving back to square? Otherwise micro adjusting will be a pain.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Looks like a very secure way to attach the fence. But I am also thinking that micro adjustments could be difficult. Many folks who have been routing for much longer than I have simply clamp a straight edge to the top. That is all I do currently, but I do intend to make a fence at some point that supports jointing. That is my biggest need at this time.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

Maxmilon said:


> Will it have a way to be square to things like miter slides and other fixtures?


I can't see that it would be any less square than t-tracks



Maxmilon said:


> Will the edges of the table be sharp and at kids forehead level?


The edges can be rounded over. I don't allow any kids around any of my shop without extreme supervision.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

*micro adjusting*



jw2170 said:


> Interesting concept, Rick.
> 
> Will you be able to move just one end and lock it, without the fence moving back to square? Otherwise micro adjusting will be a pain.


Oh I don't know, as you remember I have very little experience with router tables. I envision slightly snugging the fence and lightly tapping it for micro adjustments. The tapping will probadly have to take place closer to the center of the fence than toward one end. I can see the benefits of a tee track in that regard though.

I'm not completely sold on this ideal, it just seems like it would be a more secure clamping system.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> Many folks who have been routing for much longer than I have simply clamp a straight edge to the top. That is all I do currently,


Hey, if it works do it. I just like to be fancy.

In all honesty for light to medium weight work t-tracks probably have sufficient force to hold the fence in place.

Maybe I need to add to my profile. I have quite a bit of mechanical engineering experience with a good deal of experience working with machinist. Both manual and NC. Most machine tools use dove tails slides because of their accuracy and clamping force. I just thought it might beneficial in a router table.

A t-track system is going to be far easier to make.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Rick,
That is not what I pictured in my head when you first posted the idea and could not post pictures at that time.

I think that T-tracks or just a clamp on straightedge would be better on the router table but your fence might just work in another application. 

Thanks for posting the idea, may be someone has a use for it or will think of one and let us know why all of us need to build one.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Most fences have slots cut through them to add the sliding faces. It is important to have a small chamfer at the bottom of the sliding faces to help clear away the sawdust.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi Rick, I think this could be a great idea if you had some kind of micro adjust on the fence. A 3/8 x 32 thread would work great because 1 turn would be 1/32 inch, which could be real handy. For most of our routing needs we use bearing guided bits which almost takes the need of a fence out of the picture, and is a much faster setup.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sorry but I don't get it.. dovetail jig ?????

===


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The sliding faces on the fence are attached with a sliding dovetail joint BJ. I think that while this would work there are better ways.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

*dovetailed fence comments on the basic concept.*



rickster said:


> I hope this is the proper thread to post to. Attached is a drawing of the front view of the router table top and fence system.
> 
> 
> First I'll touch on though is the dovetail slide is a 60 degree angle. it extend through both sides of the table. The fence dovetails and locking gib are 4 in deep. the locking gib is 3/4 in wide and is pined to the fence to keep it from falling out. I'm planning making the gib out of hardwood. The dovetails will be hardwood attached to 1-1/2 thick MDF. Right now the finished table top size is 36 in across the front and 32 in deep.
> ...



Hello rickster!

INMHO :

Could work , but not better than the usual things.
This is basically a sliding dovetail.

Then you are coming into the general sliding problem and it's limits.
The concept is that if one make a sliding thing very large , like a drawer
then, when the drawer is 3/4 out, it has got not enought guidance and locks
itself when you whant to push it back.
Annoying self-locking old drawers...(To much play)
So to make it work , one needs guidance about as long as width.
It's a typicall thing one studies at school with mechanics and friction.
I won't explain right now but is a classic.
So to make it slide properly, if fence is 3 foot long then the dovetail
should be about 3 foot long to .

I've seen plans using slides that makes nice screw-adjusted fence.

(Even with separated input and output fences
That allows to use table as a jointer.)

They where using simpler concept like long straight cuts (about 3/4") in plyboard
and male part made of a square harwood 1/2 lenght of the female slide.

Using the router- table as a jointer is a good concept that came to me with 
poor results as the cutter does not keep straight because of play in the
router- lift system.( collums router european type.).
I still use it for cleaning saw marks , but i'm aware it's not dead square.
And in fact I'll just use it for a litle 0.5mm shaving.

The most important thing with a fence:
- should be dead-square.
- able to hold guidance or push- down system
- or anti kick back feather board
- adjustable center gap to keep very close to cutter size ore shape.


Sure you can have a look and find some good plans around the web.

Could also have a look to the very expensive like incra, just to get ideas
of what could be.

Also I know BOBJ made many good plans and jigs around table router.

Best Regards.
Gérard.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

*Thread driven fence.*



Willway said:


> A 3/8 x 32 thread would work great because 1 turn would be 1/32 inch,


When I think about that 2 pieces of 3/8 x 32 all thread on both side of the fence, passing through the dovetail part of the fence, Each of these all thread could have a timing gear on the end of them with a timing belt between the two. you could some how connect a cordless drill to one piece and move the entire fence.

Hey this could actually be married to the ski system to create a simple 2 axis milling system. I may have to play with this concept on my graphic software.



Willway said:


> For most of our routing needs we use bearing guided bits which almost takes the need of a fence out of the picture, and is a much faster setup.


Use of a straight edge to align the bearing with the fence and a one handed lock down. You can do the same thing with the t-track.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

rickster said:


> When I think about that 2 pieces of 3/8 x 32 all thread on both side of the fence, passing through the dovetail part of the fence, Each of these all thread could have a timing gear on the end of them with a timing belt between the two. you could some how connect a cordless drill to one piece and move the entire fence.
> ...


dang dude ... you are going to come up with some great contraptions. i can't wait to see some of the jigs you make.

:yes4:


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

ggom20 said:


> Then you are coming into the general sliding problem and it's limits. The concept is that if one make a sliding thing very large , like a drawer then, when the drawer is 3/4 out, it has got not enought guidance and locks itself when you whant to push it back. ............ So to make it slide properly, if fence is 3 foot long then the dovetail should be about 3 foot long to.


Yea I understand that concept. I figure that you would have to adjust the fence by grabbing both ends to keep it relatively straight while doing the rough adjustment.



ggom20 said:


> The most important thing with a fence:
> - should be dead-square.


I'm having trouble with dead-square. Do you mean parallel and straight across the length.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

Chris Curl said:


> dang dude ... you are going to come up with some great contraptions.:yes4:


I promise that almost every thing I come up with I'm going to place it the public domain.

I've been searching for forty years for that one simple concept. Something that only cost a dime to make, would sell for a Dollar and a dime, and every body in the world has to have one. That I will patent. Oh what could it be.


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## mikelley (Aug 2, 2012)

Maxmilon said:


> Looks interesting. Will it have a way to be square to things like miter slides and other fixtures? Will the edges of the table be sharp and at kids forehead level?
> It looks like it will hold the fence in place when you tighten the Knob.


I can see it coming, an "anti-router table" campaign! Watch for those " sharp edges"!:help:


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

*"dead square"*

Hello:


I'm having trouble with dead-square. Do you mean parallel and straight across the length.[/QUOTE]

Well , I mean 2 things at least:

- square angle 90 ° from table top.

- really straight in line too.
(just try draw and imagine results with a fence that would be convex or concave.)

A concave fence would start taking a lot of wood, then less then more again.

IMHO:
If you are really going to use a threaded part to move fence, then, you are gone 
a spend some time doing this.

If you make separated entry and output fences, you could have a look to the
jointer principle that is to set output fence at cutter level and let a little depht take 
from the input fence.
Both fences could move by same screw (usual situation)
entry fence could be adjustable for adjusting the take.

Been drawing such things in the past, never had time to try...
At the moment, my "fine adjustment" to coarse adjustment is defined by the
weight of the wooden hammer I choose to use.
(Same for my table saw)

Regards.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

*Square to table top*



ggom20 said:


> - square angle 90 ° from table top.


I'm sorry, sometimes I'm a little dense. You the plane of the table top square with the plane of the fence. 

When I buy my table saw, a Ridgid Model #R4512, I'm also going to by one of them Dial indicator adjustment tools. I've adjusted table saws before using scales, calipers and machinist squares. I own top of the line measuring tools. 

I planning on buying good equipment and tuning and keeping them tuned. 

You seem to know a lot about fence systems so let me ask you a question. would the use of a aluminum multi-track mounted to a piece of hardwood for a base be real accurate. 

I think I will do some axonmetric views of my fence and post them for commits. My basic design is based on two or three different designs I found on the net.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rick, you may like this tool: the Betterley Una-Gauge. You can learn more about it here: Betterley Industries

My kit has the digital gauge which measures in fractions, metric and inches.


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## rickster (Apr 5, 2013)

Mike said:


> Rick, you may like this tool: the Betterley Una-Gauge.


Looks like a tool every wood shop owner would drool over. Completly rust proof too I bet.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

*wooden fence stability*



rickster said:


> I planning on buying good equipment and tuning and keeping them tuned.
> 
> You seem to know a lot about fence systems so let me ask you a question. would the use of a aluminum multi-track mounted to a piece of hardwood for a base be real accurate.


Hello!

About use of harwood as a base to your system:
Wood always mooves, at least a litle, and this varies quite a lot
depending on species of wood.

(Had nice work on heavy door making that turned out to a real mess,
because the wood specie was subject to heavy mooving.)

Maybee some well dried exotic woods could do.

But the best, in my opinion of not-mooving woods is hight-grade marine plywood.
Not the building-sites one, the real marine ones.Then varnish.

Second choice would be medium, the one that is made for moist- places.
Uses are buiding wooden houses.
We got some here , it's heavy and has a green color.Then varnish.

The ultimate choice, of course is use of aluminium planks, and profiles.
Some specialised firms sells a wide range of aluminium profiles, slides, etc.
They could be routed with carbide bits.
Spirals are better , but I did some works in aluminium 1/2" plank with a low-cost
2 flutes cutter.
Worked fine , but don't do it with a router table:

Had some conductive shaving that came inside router and burned my electronic
speed control, shorting something.Got external speed-control now.

Had some to inside the bearing, and that makes a strange noise now.
If I where to route aluminium now, I' ll do it from top, using appropriate jigs,
or templates.

Routers are not really made for that, and shavings are awfull and sticks into fingers.

As it is prototyping, I would use a good grade plywood and acrylic varnish.

Regards.
Gérard


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

What problem or issue is this approach intended to overcome or solve?

I can see some problems with the design:
1) the clamping mechanism is very unlikely to be robust enough to resist much force against the fence during routing.
2) The action of clamping (if sufficiently strong to resist being moved under loading) will exert a force on the fence causing it to bow. The DT design will capture the table and fence together, this possibly distorting the table with it. 

It may be possible to use more than one clamp screw on a wide fence. This might prevent the above problems


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