# How much wood would a plain plane plane if a plain plane must plane wood?



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

LOL. 

OK, the question is obviously about planes. I need to buy one because I don't own a single one. I know, shocking isn't it? 

I guess some of you guys have a lot of them and probably quite costly ones. Stick told me he has over 200. Wow! For most of my projects I always try to cut the wood as close as possible to the finished sizes using my power saws and routers so until now I just haven't needed one. If something needed shaved a little bit I either just used a sanding block or made one of my chisels work, and its been rare that what I was making even needed it so I don't foresee a huge need in the future, either, based on the kinds of things I normally make. So if I only spent about $30 on just one, will this be a bad thing that will cause problems? Right now I simply need one to make some minor adjustments on the torsion box I am building. It will be shaving the edges of the Baltic plywood to remove high spots. I was just going to pick out an inexpensive but decent (not pure junk) LA block plane and use it for this, and also as a general purpose plane for anytime I need one again, until I discover that I want another one, if that happens.

In the last three months I have spent close to $2000 on woodworking items. My wife says this is only a hobby so I don't think she'll take well to me saying I need to drop another $100 on a plane when she sees models selling for less than $30. She's very supportive of what I do but that's not a conversation I want to have, especially since HER birthday is next week. Mine was in April. Can't justify it at all beyond basic need for just this project.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You have to start making things for her Duane. It's much easier after that. There used to be lots of old planes to be had in used stores/flea markets. I don't know if that's still the case or not. Most just need a severe sharpening, which is probably why the last owner decided to part with it. While they won't work quite as well as a new Veritas or Lie Nielson, they are also just a fraction of the price. I've gotten a few good ones off ebay fairly cheap. You gotta watch shipping costs on them though.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Duane:
I don't have 200 of them , but I've got a few. Older Stanley's, #4, #5, #6 - never found a #7 that was reasonably priced and a couple of block planes. My planes weren't that expensive - some bought new a number of years ago, some at flea markets.

What I did buy new was a Hock blade (cost more than the planes I've got) - keep it sharpened and works a charm. If you go that route, they come in different sizes, so you have to make sure it will fit the plane you get.

I can't see spending hundreds of dollars on Veritas or Lie-Nielsen, at least not for me. Someone who uses it every day might disagree.

If you go the used route, make sure the body isn't cracked, and the sole is flat (or you can flatten it yourself with a bit of work) and that all the parts work. There's a bit more to it than that but that's a start.

If you want to do some reading, this is a pretty extensive site that goes into the history of Stanley planes, the differences in the various years made, etc. It's a long read, but for me it was interesting. It will also tell you what to look for in the way of used planes.

The Superior Works - Patrick's Blood & Gore: Preface


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have 4 generations of planes... of all of them the Veritas are my go to tools..

which 30$ planes are you looking at??...

A LA block for a 1st plane is a very good start...
you know you can make your own planes???
buying a plane is a hands on deal...
comfort is #1...
flat/true soles, better irons, ease of fine adjustment, heft are #2...

but lets take a different tact... (save your money for a good plane at a later date)
get yourself a sur-form plane w/ a micro bale... (blades come in 4 grades.. shave to dig a hole)...
use the fine or medium blade for what you are doing.. perfect...
10/12 bucks and yur golden... 
up grade to a file/rasp for another 5/6 dollars... 
.
.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

+1 on the block plane for the first one.
When I was contracting I always carried one with me in my tool belt, when we got down to the finishing stage. (I retract the blade when not actually using it; religiously!)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@vchiarelli...
great site.. thanks....

years of garage sale have produced some winners... like a #8... 25$...
wish I could that again...

next time you need an iron look to LeeValley less money than Hock and maybe a bit better...
every economical plane I have ever used or had, had iron issues.. some would go dull because because you stopped sharpening them...


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Agreed, block plane first, then a jack plane (#5 or #62 for low angle) after that. I have a pretty good spread between vintage planes (some over 100 years old!) and new ones for Lie-Nielsen & Lee Valley. If budget is an issue, do some homework first on vintage planes (it is very easy to over pay for some), and then start looking through E-Bay, Antique Stores, Flee Markets, Garage Sales, Auctions, etc to get them. 

As you start collecting planes, continue to do your research, as there are cases where you are better off buying new. I spent a good year searching for a vintage router plane, that was complete with no missing parts. They would frequently sell for $100-$150+ (not counting shipping costs) on E-Bay, and complete ones are almost non-existent elsewhere. I ended up getting the Veritas from Lee-Valley with the fence for $150.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Thank you for the replies so far. For me, I am a "buy it new" guy so it will have to be new. I also just don't have the time to go yard sale shopping looking for a deal on one, nor the desire to restore one after I find it. 

One person asked which ones I was looking at. None specifically, I just did a fast Amazon search for a rough idea of pricing, and saw anywhere from $20 up to $100 and higher. $20-30 sounds appealing to me obviously, especially for a tool that will see little use based on my style and project choices. I would use a plane when it is the best took for the job, or maybe the only one that would work, but otherwise if there was another way I wouldn't choose a plane to work with. I've honestly never understood how some people can use one to flatten a board and talk about how enjoyable it is. I'm far more interested in building and using a router jig to do that with if needed. Using planes to do a lot of work makes it seem too much like "work".


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Duane; there's nothing quicker than a block plane to ease a board edge. If it's right beside you on your workbench, and it's sharp, you'll use it a lot!
I've been known to pull the blade out and use it to 'scrape' a fuzzy bit of grain that's causing me grief. Bad practice, know...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Thank you for the replies so far. For me, I am a "buy it new" guy so it will have to be new. I also just don't have the time to go yard sale shopping looking for a deal on one, nor the desire to restore one after I find it.
> 
> One person asked which ones I was looking at. None specifically, I just did a fast Amazon search for a rough idea of pricing, and saw anywhere from $20 up to $100 and higher. $20-30 sounds appealing to me obviously, especially for a tool that will see little use based on my style and project choices. I would use a plane when it is the best took for the job, or maybe the only one that would work, but otherwise if there was another way I wouldn't choose a plane to work with. I've honestly never understood how some people can use one to flatten a board and talk about how enjoyable it is. I'm far more interested in building and using a router jig to do that with if needed. Using planes to do a lot of work makes it seem too much like "work".


go w/ the sur-form...
problem solved...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Duane; there's nothing quicker than a block plane to ease a board edge. If it's right beside you on your workbench, and it's sharp, you'll use it a lot!
> I've been known to pull the blade out and use it to 'scrape' a fuzzy bit of grain that's causing me grief. Bad practice, know...



As someone who has nearly no experience with one, can you explain easing a board edge? 

Also, I do the scraping thing with a chisel as well. I have a set from 1/4" all the way up to 2" wide.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

after you machine a board there are sharp right angle corners (face to edge)... easing an edge is putting a micro chamfer on it to get rid of the sharpness, improve esthetics and alleviate splintering...


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Alright, I just went and looked at some planes on youtube to see what the differences were. I have to say I was impressed with what I saw and I learned a few things. First, I never even knew there was such a thing as a jointer plane. That thing is huge. 

I saw the guy skewing the planes as he used them, no matter what he was doing (except on the jointer plane). Does this make them cut better? 

What do all the numbers mean? I am overwhelmed by this alone. Seems there are many many numbers involved with these (Stanley #295, and so on). 

Before I ask any more questions, I am going to go read some of the PFD's Stick posted in another thread. Maybe what I want to know will be in one of them. 

I guess I should know this by now, to keep my mouth shut until I have more information. I tend to leap first and then look. It's a bad habit. Disregard my earlier comments about not caring for planes. I may have made a rash decision without doing enough research first (no, surely not! Me?).


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> after you machine a board there are sharp right angle corners (face to edge)... easing an edge is putting a micro chamfer on it to get rid of the sharpness, improve esthetics and alleviate splintering...


Oh yeah, I remember you telling me about this. I just didn't connect the name to the action. Now, my next question is, wouldn't a palm router and a chamfer bit do the same? Might not be as fast so I guess a plane would be better there. Knowing me, I'd somehow cut too deep whereas a router would be more consistent.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Duane; it's so much faster to just grab the plane and do it...no cords, no changing bits, and delicious hand control!
Picture yourself up on a step ladder, and you need to touch up the end of a board that you're trying to install.
On the skewing thing, you'd be slicing across the fibres instead of hitting them head on. With a razor sharp blade probably not a huge difference on most woods, but on the difficult stuff, like a hot knife through butter. Less force required which means you have better hand control.
A plane isn't better than a router, they're complimentary. You need both (and lots of 'em!)


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Thank you for the replies so far. For me, I am a "buy it new" guy so it will have to be new. I also just don't have the time to go yard sale shopping looking for a deal on one, nor the desire to restore one after I find it.
> 
> One person asked which ones I was looking at. None specifically, I just did a fast Amazon search for a rough idea of pricing, and saw anywhere from $20 up to $100 and higher. $20-30 sounds appealing to me obviously, especially for a tool that will see little use based on my style and project choices. I would use a plane when it is the best took for the job, or maybe the only one that would work, but otherwise if there was another way I wouldn't choose a plane to work with. I've honestly never understood how some people can use one to flatten a board and talk about how enjoyable it is. I'm far more interested in building and using a router jig to do that with if needed. Using planes to do a lot of work makes it seem too much like "work".


Duane,

You're missing out with that "buy it new" attitude. Some of my best hand planes have been flea market and garage sale Stanley Bailey's. Some as little as $5. With a little bit of clean-up and a Hock or other aftermarket blade and chip breaker they can be made to function almost as well as some of the higher priced planes. Usually for less then $50-75 investment and a little labor.

You'll never beat a custom made, LN, or Veritas plane, but for occasional use it is the most effective route. I have found #3's to #6' all at reasonable prices. I have several #5, which are the most common. A good block plane is an essential for all woodworking activities. If you have them, you will find more and more ways to utilize them in your builds.

Refurbishing a plane is the best way to understand how it works and how to properly set the unit up. Not having the time is like saying, I don't have the time and can't be bothered to sharpen my chisels. Do it and learn.

Sticks advice is golden. A shurform works, as do rasps and files. Low cost and low tech. If you want to get serious, then get serious.
Woodworking isn't just tablesaws, router tables, and bandsaws. Not everything can be done with a power tool. Handtools ARE essential. 

You say you have spent a couple of grand on tools. FIND the time to occasionally hit a flea market or garage sale. I have gotten a $500 scroll saw (like new) for $100, PC routers for $10 and the price a new power cord or switch, a $190 PC belt sander for $10 (I replaced the shoe for another $10). Most of my PC routers are used eBay units. All in excellent shape. I keep power cords, strain reliefs, and usually one switch in reserve in the shop for refurbs or repairs. None of them has EVER let me down. ALL USED!

If I've offended you, I'll apologize in advance. But woodworking can and is an expensive hobby. If you want to get into it then you have to spend your money wisely. Otherwise, you end up with a collection of tools with big gaps that are inadequate to get the job done.

Bill


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

One question I have to ask now. At my most basic comprehension of planes, the blade or iron always extends slightly below the sole, which is dead flat, right? So, how is it that this will ever make a board completely flat? It looks like if you keep sliding it on the wood surface, it will just keep cutting, and cutting, and continue to cut, and cut some more, if you don't know just when to stop making passes. Looks like on a broad surface, much broader than the plane itself, that you would have "puddles" develop if you weren't consistent and have a feel for what you are doing. This thought here is what has prevented me from getting into planes as a form of woodworking. I figured I'd make it worse instead of better, and it would be so much work to ever get a board right that I'd be hopelessly frustrated. Can someone clear this up for me?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

It's only the blade that sticks down below the sole, and the cut is to the point that the plane is riding on the sole. That's why the planes come in different lengths. A jointer plane has a very long sole which bridges the low spots aloowing only the high spots to be hit by the blade. Eventually the whole surface is flat and the sole rides evenly across the entire surface.
But yes, you're right, if you don't stop at that point, the board will just get thinner. The key is really the depth of cut, and knowing when to quit. 
I learned all this stuff as a pimply kid in Gr. 8 woodworking; I'm guessing it wasn't that difficult considering what (who) the teacher had to work with...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Oh yeah, I remember you telling me about this. I just didn't connect the name to the action. Now, my next question is, wouldn't a palm router and a chamfer bit do the same? Might not be as fast so I guess a plane would be better there. Knowing me, I'd somehow cut too deep whereas a router would be more consistent.


it would but why...
the plane advances your skills as you learn the tool......
we're talking a 64th to a 32nd an inch here...
a plane is faster and cleaner...

*Note...*
if you haven't got one order the LeeValley tool catalog... 
there is tons of all kinds of useful information in it... w/ pictures no less.. 
the catalog is a learning...
the in print plane section will tell you most everything you need to know... 
what those numbers mean, purpose, sharpening, set up, how to use and when to do what w/ what...
https://www.leevalley.com/US/home/CatalogSelect.aspx

still.. use the sur-form on your torsion table and save up for a decent plane...
I low quality plane will turn you off on planes because you won't put up w/ the aggravation and why waste your money on one...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> One question I have to ask now. At my most basic comprehension of planes, the blade or iron always extends slightly below the sole, which is dead flat, right? So, how is it that this will ever make a board completely flat? It looks like if you keep sliding it on the wood surface, it will just keep cutting, and cutting, and continue to cut, and cut some more, if you don't know just when to stop making passes. Looks like on a broad surface, much broader than the plane itself, that you would have "puddles" develop if you weren't consistent and have a feel for what you are doing. This thought here is what has prevented me from getting into planes as a form of woodworking. I figured I'd make it worse instead of better, and it would be so much work to ever get a board right that I'd be hopelessly frustrated. Can someone clear this up for me?


In the most basic form. The sole bridges the cut area of the blade. you could certainly cut a groove if you left it in one spot. However, that is not how to properly use a plane.

There are three basic categories of planes, Jointers, Jacks and Smoothers. Some planes do double duty and overlap in the functions. Jacks are the workhorse for hoging out material, usually #4, #5 and #6. Jointers are used for a more refined surface and are the longer planes, usually #6, #7, and #8. The Smoothers are the smaller soled planes for that final finishing touches, usually #2, #3, and #4. (Notice the overlaps).

The numbering system above is a basic Stanley (Bailey) numbering system. Other mfgs. use different numbers for the same, comparable, planes.

Lots of good info on the NET for details. 

Hope this helps

GET A BLOCK PLANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@schnewj...

Bill, power cord replacement...
10 or 15' extension cords are the ticket... go to 25's if the length merits it...

cut the female end off and install it...
bright colors, wear better and being more flexible are pluses...
2 or 3 conductor cords in 16 or 14 gauge are cheaper than OEM...


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

While you are thinking of buying a plane, you best consider how you are going to re-sharpen it (because you could only use it as a hammer when its dull and I assume you have one of those). Of course there are many cost flavors of doing this task and lots of how-to information out there. I do make lots of use of a $25 flea market special (Stanley) but it did need sharpening and a new $35 handle. I only have 4 planes (and not really room for those) and I would love one of those high end planes but I wouldn't use that one to practice my sharpening techniques on. :smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

has anybody mentioned that the blade sticks out of the sole about the thickness of a piece of paper or less...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

On easing edges: 
One place I worked at had a painter doing the lacquer finishes who was one of the better I seen. Before he finished anything he would go over all the edges with a sanding sponge to get rid of any sharp edges. I asked him why once and this is how he explained it. 

Paints and top coat finishes have surface tension that helps level the finish as it dries. If you have a sharp corner the finish will pull itself away from it as it is pulling from only one direction. If the corner has been eased then the finish will pull from both directions as it goes around the corner even if the radius is quite small. This means you'll get a thicker more uniform film at the edges of your piece.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> @schnewj...
> 
> Bill, power cord replacement...
> 10 or 15' extension cords are the ticket... go to 25's if the length merits it...
> ...


Stick,

You hit the nail on the head as usual. I always go heavier gauge and longer if merited. I have a 15" cord on one router...and it has come in handy. Beats a 6-8' OEM cord all to hell.

Cords, switches and strain reliefs are cheap. I have seen people pass up good tools because the cords were dry rotted or the strain reliefs or switches were broken. A screw driver, cord/relief, or switch and 10 minutes fixes that problem. CHEAP!

I don't hesitate to buy used. I have never been burnt on a tool. I feel that if it goes south I have parts worth more then what I paid for the tools. I've yet to have one quit! I can fix just about anything if I have the right parts. Unfortunately, not everyone is mechanically inclined and able to do that.

I think a lot of folks miss out on excellent tools because they are "used" and take the tact, that, they are worn out. In reality, I see a lot of tools that were, gifts that/or got little or no use with a lot of life left in them. You just have to know the difference and what to look for when you buy.

Bill


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> has anybody mentioned that the blade sticks out of the sole about the thickness of a piece of paper or less...


I wish someone would "mention" how to reliably and repeatably set this adjustment. I hate this aspect of plane usage - it takes me forever to get it "just right". And each plane has it quirks I've tried "fixturing" this setting ... adjusting the plane blade setting on a flat piece of wood laminated (except where the blade was) with laminating film in one case with no real luck. I still have to "eyeball / trial & error" it - my eyes are getting worse, my patience less.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> While you are thinking of buying a plane, you best consider how you are going to re-sharpen it (because you could only use it as a hammer when its dull and I assume you have one of those). Of course there are many cost flavors of doing this task and lots of how-to information out there. I do make lots of use of a $25 flea market special (Stanley) but it did need sharpening and a new $35 handle. I only have 4 planes (and not really room for those) and I would love one of those high end planes but I wouldn't use that one to practice my sharpening techniques on. :smile:


because at a later time Duane is seriously going to consider this...

Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide System - Lee Valley Tools


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

ahhhhhhhhhhh a slippery slope it is indeed my friend 

application, choosing, sharpening, maintaining and use...ya just can't beat a properly tuned hand plane..

I've several planes now, and enjoy using them all, but my favorite is just a lil ole apron plane from Lee Valley..(veritas)

a word of warning however.. they can be addictive. You start pulling those .003 shavings off of hard maple like butta...
there ain't no turnin' back..

(((when you get to the point that you can do that, you've earned your stripes and you'll know what a hand
plane is all about)))


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> because at a later time Duane is seriously going to consider this...
> 
> Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide System - Lee Valley Tools


Good idea - my point was the potential budget impact. Got the cheapo version of that guide - but I just couldn't talk it into sharpening the blades without me. And there was the minor thing about abrasives ... diamond, water stone, plate and paper, Work sharp (well not with this guide). Oh the choices ... tried them all (except the diamond) ... relatively proficient with them but didn't have a preference.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> I wish someone would "mention" how to reliably and repeatably set this adjustment. I hate this aspect of plane usage - it takes me forever to get it "just right". And each plane has it quirks I've tried "fixturing" this setting ... adjusting the plane blade setting on a flat piece of wood laminated (except where the blade was) with laminating film in one case with no real luck. I still have to "eyeball / trial & error" it - my eyes are getting worse, my patience less.


Mark,

This comes from experience. You have to "sneak" up on the setting. I start by waxing the plane sole, then take a swipe. I adjust the blade out and take another until is see the chip start. From there it is a matter of feel and choice. The sharper the blade the easier it is to adjust it to where you need it to just barely do the job.

A whisper thin curl is a joy to see. Literally, ten thousands of an inch thick.

Most folks don't really know what sharp is. Sharpening is a skill that everyone needs to learn. Most don't bother to learn how to do it correctly. If the blade isn't sharp the blade will dig and chatter. 

This is the reason most folks give up on hand planes. They never learn how to get them to function, or realize the joy of using a properly set up plane, because they can't adequately sharpen the blades.

The fatal flaw in the Stanley Bailey planes are the thin blades and chip breakers. Add a good quality thicker blade (i.e. Hock) and that piece of junk becomes much easier and a joy to use.

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> because at a later time Duane is seriously going to consider this...
> 
> Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide System - Lee Valley Tools


I wouldn't be with out mine!

Bill


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> I wish someone would "mention" how to reliably and repeatably set this adjustment. I hate this aspect of plane usage - it takes me forever to get it "just right". And each plane has it quirks I've tried "fixturing" this setting ... adjusting the plane blade setting on a flat piece of wood laminated (except where the blade was) with laminating film in one case with no real luck. I still have to "eyeball / trial & error" it - my eyes are getting worse, my patience less.


you tube..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

schnewj said:


> A whisper thin curl is a joy to see. Literally, ten thousands of an inch thick.
> 
> 
> This is the reason most folks give up on hand planes. They never learn how to get them to function, or realize the joy of using a properly set up plane, because they can't adequately sharpen the blades
> ...


correct-o-mundo!!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> Good idea - my point was the potential budget impact. Got the cheapo version of that guide - but I just couldn't talk it into sharpening the blades without me. And there was the minor thing about abrasives ... diamond, water stone, plate and paper, Work sharp (well not with this guide). Oh the choices ... tried them all (except the diamond) ... relatively proficient with them but didn't have a preference.


if you totaled up all ''stuff'' I bought over the years/decades that ended up collecting dust I could have of bought 10 of those MK II's
and 6 Tormeks and had a ton of money left over...

what ever the sharpening media, properly used and cared for will produce results you need...
A Mk II and wet/dry paper on a thick piece of glass of granite produce like there is no tomorrow... change the paper to ceramic or diamond stones and life gets easier... 

the secret is... knowing how and proper use...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@schnewj, @Stick486, and others

This thread is the Reader's Digest of handplane use. It should be read by anyone who has either never used a plane, or has poo-pooed their use.

@Danivan

I've got the Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide - wouldn't be without it. Tried a cheaper version, didn't work, and free-hand was a disaster as well.

Duane - I use a block plane to ease edges, but I've also used sandpaper to soften them.

Quite frankly, a hand plane is another tool in a woodworker's arsenal. I'm not a neanderthal but I have made small tables without the use of any electric tools. And the upside - no need to wear hearing protection


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Duane Bledsoe....

long range plan...
block plane...
bench plane..
shoulder plane...
but for you...
but for a life time...

and that Mk II will help get you chisels so sharp you'll be afraid to enter the room they're in...

there'a a thread here on the Mk II I started but I can't find it...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> .......if you haven't got one order the LeeValley tool catalog...


Or download the online version of it

I gotta say I could spend a fortune there. Shame the UK doesn't have anything like that here.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> Or download the online version of it
> 
> I gotta say I could spend a fortune there. Shame the UK doesn't have anything like that here.


not the same....
the on line version lacks a lot of the information blocks/pages...


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Duane Bledsoe said:


> Thank you for the replies so far. For me, I am a "buy it new" guy so it will have to be new. I also just don't have the time to go yard sale shopping looking for a deal on one, nor the desire to restore one after I find it.
> 
> One person asked which ones I was looking at. None specifically, I just did a fast Amazon search for a rough idea of pricing, and saw anywhere from $20 up to $100 and higher. $20-30 sounds appealing to me obviously, especially for a tool that will see little use based on my style and project choices. I would use a plane when it is the best took for the job, or maybe the only one that would work, but otherwise if there was another way I wouldn't choose a plane to work with. I've honestly never understood how some people can use one to flatten a board and talk about how enjoyable it is. I'm far more interested in building and using a router jig to do that with if needed. Using planes to do a lot of work makes it seem too much like "work".


Machining is a significant portion of the manufacturing costs. Inexpensive "new" planes require as mucheffort to flatten the sole and sharpen the blade as used,


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Several years ago, Stanley introduced its 'new' line of planes. They suffered horribly from quality control issues, primarily machining issues. Not to mention that handle was like grabbing a axe handle.. *L* Wood River introduced a line of planes that suffered the same machining issues. The line bombed.. but they stuck with it, made corrections and today the Wood River lineup is an excellent choice for mid priced hand planes. Look for the V3 (version 3) lineup. Miles and miles ahead of the Buck Brothers and Craftsman type of planes, a distant third to Lee Valley (veritas) and Lie Nielsenz..but a fine plane none the less..especially for the money


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

the irons on a WR's is a bit ''soft'' IMO but they sharpens easily and well....
agreed on standing...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm guessing that the irons is one of the corners they cut to come in at a given price point.. still not a bad iron..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

this would be a good place for Duane to shoot to...
all V3's....

Buy WoodRiver Ultimate Block Plane Set at Woodcraft.com
Buy WoodRiver Ultimate Cabinet Maker's Kit at Woodcraft.com


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I like that about WR... the sets they package...

the cabinets makers kit is an excellent starter...only problem I see with em is that the irons will need a bit of 
attention out of the box... LV just a little honing and LN good to go right out of the box...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

time for a Mk II....

I do not care for WR 90 series... FWTW...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

+1 ont the MK II

never used any of the 90's, but I do like the look....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

the price on it seems scary till you see what it will do for toy and how much easier it will make your live...
it will improve even the worst of cutting tools...


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

This is a great read! I do not build a lot of stuff that has to look nice - but my stuff does have to be dimensionally deadly accurate. I have several planes of all types and they all come-in quite handy when the need arises. Taking old planes apart and cleaning them up and replacing parts where available and necessary will go a long way in your learning process, Duane. Honestly if you "brown bag" a couple of lunches you will save enough $ to buy some fairly decent elderly planes from an antique store for $5 - $20. Being a casual collector of old tools (some dating back to the 1800's), I have several that get attention from many of my guests! Some are obviously hand-made from mostly wood and the quality (considering the age) is amazing. The obvious high quality of old planes proves to me that planes were highly valued by their users! We should learn from them, IMHO.

Good luck, and build stuff for your wife. Also as someone married to my "OEM" wife for 42 years, my advice is to never buy her something with a power cord! A high-quality hand plane fits that description nicely. Tell her you will store it in your shop to prevent shavings on the floors of your living quarters. Problem solved! 

Take care my friend, Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia
...and tell her happy birthday from a regular guy with a funny name!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have several Wood River planes that are excellent, plus a Stanley block plane that I've spent several hours on flattening and sharpening that is very handy for all the reasons listed. My Wood Rivers are a #4 and a #6. I don't use them all that often, but they produce a really nice finish compared to sanding. If I were to do a hardwood table top, I'd surely use a plane to flatten it just for the crisp surface it leaves. Link: http://www.amazon.com/WoodRiver-4-B...d=1437488343&sr=1-1&keywords=woodriver+planes About $ 145.

Sharpening is really the key, as well as getting the chipper very near the cutting edge. There are a lot of videos on planes, sharpening, flattening and tuning up. I have a diamond sharpening stone I use to keep things really sharp and a leather strop to finish the edge. 

Someone gave me an 1950 era stanley #4 that I've tuned up and it is OK, but nothing like the Wood River for precision. The Wood Rivers were close to $100 less than the high end planes. I too prefer to buy new. You can make your own planes from good hardwood and buy a blade, it can be a fun project. 

Flattening and sharpening can be done using sandpaper from 150 up to 1500 grit. Lots of good information on sharpening, including angles, jigs & best practices.

I recently bought a digital Plane Check that measures how much of the blade is exposed. It measures in thousandths and makes it easier to get the blade parallel to the sole. If it is off, you get gouging, and my old eyes can't eyeball anywhere near that accuracy. Look it over, its cheap. http://www.amazon.com/iGaging-Digit...F8&qid=1437488231&sr=8-1&keywords=Plane+Check.

Since I've started making things for my wife, she has become very supportive of my biuying tools. I'm working up to getting a 14/12 Laguna band saw with their SawKing blade. In all, I've spent a little less on my good tools than she has on machines for quilting.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Duane Bledsoe...

You have read the passions of a (sound of throat clearing) few here... Those passions come from having suffered through some troublesome tools... 
the planes...
most of us have used or tried use bargain planes... then one day it happens... you get your hands on quality...
the 1st thing that is generally thought is - where have you been all my life...
happiness reigns... life is good....
some like me think, if only I had this to start w/... yadda.........
FWIW... all those ''ecotools'' I use to have were gifted to people I didn't think much of... 
they real duds were tossed...

it would grieve me to think of how much money that all came to and was wasted... 
thinking w/ your wallet usually has a poor return on your money and generally keeps on costing... 
everyone that is preaching get the best you can even if it's a struggle are trying to move you to the head of the class or at least near it... 
it may be hard to believe... but buying better actually saves money...

no compensating...
a lot less of wasted time...
better results...
better attitude...
less material wasted...
less man hours...
things get simpler...
all of this makes the bottom line look better..
it contributes to your self esteem, pride in job well done and peace of mind..
things you make for your wife have a higher quality impact...
cheap shid can screw things in heart beat and the ripple effect/affect is your morale takes a serious hit...

so for now .. sit on getting a plane for now till you can do you better... 
do your homework and then ask questions to fill in the blanks...

you said something about being the best you can be at WW...
everybody here is pulling for you....

take your torsion table and long range thinking...
you have the grid installed to the top sheet and prepped for flatness...
now you are adding blocks for screws/bench dogs/vises and what ever else you can think of...
make those blocks/plates/cats the thickness of the webs... call them through blocks...
plates are squares of ply stacked up 3'' thick or near that *just so so that they aren't proud of the ribs *that fill a square...

drill flat bottomed 1/2'' holes w/ a forstner bit just deep enough for the heads of the screws into the bottom sheet's better face...
you are looking to flush the heads of the screws... use fine threaded screws...
this is a predrill operation well before the adhesive is placed...
you are using pocket screws because of the type head they have...
can we say exploiting here???... better holding and draw down..
and it won't take many.. three or four per every other short rib will be plenty .. add more if it makes you happy...

install the bottom sheet of ply...
adhesive to the ribs.... suggest a bead of adhesive about 1/8 to 3/16'' thick and 3/8'' wide... leave any squeeze out till after it dries...
add the ply.. rim clamp.. add cauls..
you know, cauls don't need to be anything more than some pipe clamps w/ wedges driven between the pipe and plywood...
drill your pilot hole for the screw shank using the forstner bit's center point as a locator...

as you install the screws.. start in the center and work out wards so that sheet of ply will roll out flat...
take your time but hurry...
if you have somebody to drill the pilot hole for you and you install the screws this is a very good deal... or the the other way around..
don't pilot drill too far ahead of yourself... you don't want splintered ply becoming shims..
REMEMBER try not to over drive the screws... snug is a wonderful thing...
HEY!!! yur the one that demand flat... we are really going to work at giving it to you... (there is an ulterior motive afoot here)...

the top is done now and you are happily working along............. *AND*.........................

*OH NO!!!!!* some nefarious catastrophe strikes and severely damages your top.... I mean really tears it up...
you hang your head and go find closet to hide in, suck your thumb and weep....
now that you got that out of your system you head down to the shop...

you unscrew the top from the frame.... 
flip it over... mount it to the frame...
pull the pocket screws... no sense in tearing up a cutter because you accidentally hit one...
fill the countersinks...
install a new hardboard cover... and you are back in business...
*and all those blocks you put in for the original top are available to you with/for the new top that was once the bottom...*
you may never have to flip the top over but if you ever have to you are good to go....
a simple flip over halves the price and labor of a one sided top in a heartbeat...

eons ago not only the how to but the what for, what if and the how comes were drilled into me... 
this is my mind set and it has served well...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> I have several Wood River planes that are excellent,
> 
> Since I've started making things for my wife, she has become very supportive of my biuying tools. I'm working up to getting a 14/12 Laguna band saw with their SawKing blade. In all, I've spent a little less on my good tools than she has on machines for quilting.


my experience w/ WR extended to the V1 and 2's... so you can see why/what formed my opinion of them...
the V3 changed that...

making things for the wife... golden...

I have a pair of the Italian made saws... (16 & 18) *SWEET!!!*
Sam had the import model/version (16) and ended up sending it back using the lemon law to make Laguna take it back...
I think the frame had a slight twist to it... 
night and day differences between the Italian and import models...
if you get the import version test drive it before you sign on the dotted line...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@Stick486

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-w...plain-plane-must-plane-wood-5.html#post738514

Well said, on all points. Obviously the VOE - and I thought you were a man of few words.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> @Stick486
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/tools-w...plain-plane-must-plane-wood-5.html#post738514
> 
> Well said, on all points. Obviously the VOE - and I thought you were a man of few words.


I am... when it comes to typing...
had lots more to say...
but after an hour plus of typing I just posted...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@TwoSkies57, @Cherryville Chuck, @Semipro, or @Cricket...

can one of you please edit a segment of post #50 to read as...

drill flat bottomed 1/2'' holes w/ a forstner bit just deep enough for the heads of the screws into the bottom sheet's better face...
you are looking to flush the heads of the screws... use fine threaded screws...
this is a predrill operation well before the adhesive is placed...
you are using pocket screws because of the type head they have...
can we say exploiting here???... better holding and draw down..
and it won't take many.. three or four per every other short rib will be plenty .. add more if it makes you happy... 

install the bottom sheet of ply...
adhesive to the ribs.... suggest a bead of adhesive about 1/8 to 3/16'' thick and 3/8'' wide... leave any squeeze out till after it dries...
add the ply.. rim clamp.. add cauls..
you know, cauls don't need to be anything more than some pipe clamps w/ wedges driven between the pipe and plywood...
drill your pilot hole for the screw shank using the forstner bit's center point as a locator...

as you install the screws.. start in the center and work out wards so that sheet of ply will roll out flat...
take your time but hurry...
if you have somebody to drill the pilot hole for you and you install the screws this is a very good deal... or the the other way around..
don't pilot drill too far ahead of yourself... you don't want splintered ply becoming shims..
*REMEMBER* try not to over drive the screws... snug is a wonderful thing...
HEY!!! yur the one that demand flat... we are really going to work at giving it to you... (there is an ulterior motive afoot here)...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

done....sir


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> @Stick486
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/tools-w...plain-plane-must-plane-wood-5.html#post738514
> 
> Well said, on all points. Obviously the VOE - and I thought you were a man of few words.


how many, just here alone, have come looking to salvage or modify something that did work as advertised hence screwing up the project...
oh the time, energy and money that got poured into so many things when it could have been avoided to start w/......
refuse to cut their loses and throw more time, energy and money into it...
total it up...
the total would more than pay for more than one of the real deal...
time is money...
salaried people don't like working late or weekends...
hourly want their due...
you quote a job w/ labor at a fixed sum and issues are extending the time needed for completion, at some point you didn't make enough to pay the bills and if it goes on for too long you are paying the client to work on their project...
equipment that fails and you are now into down time till it's dealt w/ because you haven't a spare...
down time because you haven't the right tool for the job and you are attempting to make do...
down time because of crap CS and support...
down time because you had to stop doing what you are doing and take something in for exchange... 
be suspicious/cynical when you hear the word *BUT...*...
But it will be replace free...
but it's just like...
but it's all I need...
but it works great if you don't...........................
but, but, but, but....................

HF tools are a prime example... 
no one ever seems to consider that going to HF costs money...
down time...
money to operate the transportation...
wear and tear on it...

oh well.. wallet thinkers just refuse to wake up...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> done....sir


thank you...
what is gonna take to get y'all to drop the sir...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

For those guys who would rather look for a deal on a user... there is a huge difference between em, even within the Stanley lineup. Look to a type 11. or even a Bedrock. I know, I know,, but do your homework. get to know what your looking for and AT. But even before you go that far, put the time and effort into going out and actually using a well tuned plane. Get to know what it is capable of when its set up properly. Alot of folks go out, get an older fixer-upper that needs ALOT of work, but not knowing this.. think that this is how they are... not so much. 

If you got a sentimental investment in a plane, there are ways around everything. Machined soles, new totes/hanldes, new irons etc... most replacement parts are not hard to find (depending!!!!!) By the time you get done "restoring" that sentimental plane, you could have as much invested as if you were to go out and get a nice new one. Wellllllllll maybe not that much, but it can add up fast, but then again, you can't put a price on a part of your great grand-dads wood working history


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> thank you...
> what is gonna take to get y'all to drop the sir...


whatcha bringing to the table?


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@Stick486

Well said again - couldn't agree with you more.

Dad always said, buy the best you can afford, or at least, the best that you need.

I've experienced the reluctance to cut losses in the world of IT. Manager's philosophy was always "we can do it cheaper".

My argument: probably because we're on site, and already getting paid, but when you consider that it may take me longer to resolve an issue because of less experience than a seasoned pro, added to the fact that my other work takes a back seat and subsequently takes longer to complete, or an issue may lead to other issues that I can't resolve, then in my view, it may appear that the additional cost is higher, it may actually save money in the long run.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> whatcha bringing to the table?


it's already on the table...


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## phillipsted (Sep 26, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> For those guys who would rather look for a deal on a user... there is a huge difference between em, even within the Stanley lineup. Look to a type 11. or even a Bedrock. I know, I know,, but do your homework. get to know what your looking for and AT. But even before you go that far, put the time and effort into going out and actually using a well tuned plane. Get to know what it is capable of when its set up properly. Alot of folks go out, get an older fixer-upper that needs ALOT of work, but not knowing this.. think that this is how they are... not so much.
> 
> If you got a sentimental investment in a plane, there are ways around everything. Machined soles, new totes/hanldes, new irons etc... most replacement parts are not hard to find (depending!!!!!) By the time you get done "restoring" that sentimental plane, you could have as much invested as if you were to go out and get a nice new one. Wellllllllll maybe not that much, but it can add up fast, but then again, you can't put a price on a part of your great grand-dads wood working history


I agree, TwoSkies. The older planes can be a real joy to tune up and get in working order. Especially if you buy a replacement blade from someone like Ron Hock. That's really the secret sauce.

However, I would caution against the newest generation of Stanley "Sweetheart" planes. Lots of horror stories of QC issues. I sold mine after a few months. On top of that, they take non-standard irons - even Mr. Hock doesn't make irons and chipbreakers for them... Recommend steering clear.

Having said all that... some of my absolutely best woodworking experiences came about while piloting my well-tuned bronze Lie Nielsen #4 smoother plane across some nice wide cherry or walnut stock. The tactile sense of hearing the plane kiss the wood and peel off tissue-thin ribbons of wood is addicting. To be honest, woodworking for me is more of a therapeutic activity to counteract the stress from my day job. And nothing relaxes me quite like a well-tuned bench plane. Ahhhhhhh.

TedP


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Go to Woodcraft and buy one of their "WoodRiver" planes. They are a quality product that will do the job but not cost you big $$$


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

to get the Japan finish look on a plane...
clean the old w/DNA..
strip if you wish... (lacquer thinner)...
use rattle can high temp engine in very light coats.. 
should take 5 or 6 coats...
remember.. very very light coats,, as in a dusting...can't tell the difference and finish is about bullet proof..


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