# What the @#* happened; Bosch customer service



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I was trying to work with my Bosch MRC23EVS with the plunge base when I tried to change the height of the bit with the above table hex wrench when I noticed the bit was not moving. I pulled out the router out of the table when I saw what is shown in the two photos. I perhaps should also point out that the motor seems stuck in the fixed base.

I tried the Bosch e-repair web site and found a repair place within an hour's drive. I contacted that place and the phone answerer mad it clear my job was too small to receive attention for several days. My response was they were to small minded for me. I am instead sending it to a place, via UPS, within the state that actually has Bosch in its name.

Any ideas what went wrong? And, much more important, how do I prevent a recurrence?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Tom; been awhile!
Re the first repaid shop. That shouldn't reflect back on Bosch, but having said that, Bosch should be informed if any of their repair depots aren't representing them properly...no way they'll know if someone doesn't tell them.
Having said _that_, if any shop is overwhelmed with business they have an obligation to tell the potential client that it's going to be a few days/weeks/months before their particular issue can be dealt with. That's only fair to both parties. Being rude about it is another story.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Agree with Dan


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Tom; been awhile!
> Re the first repaid shop. That shouldn't reflect back on Bosch, but having said that, Bosch should be informed if any of their repair depots aren't representing them properly...no way they'll know if someone doesn't tell them.
> Having said _that_, if any shop is overwhelmed with business they have an obligation to tell the potential client that it's going to be a few days/weeks/months before their particular issue can be dealt with. That's only fair to both parties. Being rude about it is another story.


+1

Sounds like an issue with the INDEPENDENT repair shop. That attitude definitely doesn't reflect the usual Bosch CS. Bosch should know about this.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

It always amazes me how some people can only express themselves by being rude. Sometimes they stay in business in spite on themselves not because of themselves. I vote for businesses with my money. Treat me right I'll pay my bill, recommend you and return. Treat me wrong I'll pay my bill, I won't recommend you and I damned sure won't return.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Tom; been awhile!
> Re the first repaid shop. That shouldn't reflect back on Bosch, but having said that, Bosch should be informed if any of their repair depots aren't representing them properly...no way they'll know if someone doesn't tell them.
> Having said _that_, if any shop is overwhelmed with business they have an obligation to tell the potential client that it's going to be a few days/weeks/months before their particular issue can be dealt with. That's only fair to both parties. Being rude about it is another story.


 @DaninVan, @shopguy @schnewj I agree that an overwhelmed shop has an obligation as you describe. That appeared to not be the case here; the phone answerer was rude and frankly there's been enough going on with obnoxious providers that my hot buttons are much closer to t he surface than usual. 
The issue of an independent shop is one I have mixed feelings about. Certainly Bosch Inc. has no control over the independent shops, but they do list them as service centers so to some extent do represent Bosch. Yes I will do what I can to inform Bosch. 
Thanks.


Now, any ideas what happened and how to prevent a recurrence? 

These photos are not intended to be a part of my redemption from Forum Freeloader rank.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Call Bosch CS and tell them what you told us...
looks like to ran the adjustments to the stops and jammed the motor into the base...

1-877-267-2499...


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

From the photos it looks like the "C" shaped washer came loose from the bottom of the screw and let the adjustment go beyond it's limits. If I'm right and on rare occasions I am, normally during a full solar eclipse, you may be able to move the washer back up to the bottom of the screw, there should be a channel for it, and that might permit you to lower the adjustment. I had a similar problem with my 1617 and that fixed it. I had raised the bit and it wasn't quite high enough so I gave it a couple of extra turns and popped the washer. I'm now very cautious so that I don't raise or lower the bit beyond it's limits. I hope this helps and saves you from having to pay repair costs.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

It's good to see that at least you attempted to use a router again Tom, that will extend your title of "routologist" for a further six months! I do hope that your health has improved.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

mftha,

I have the very same router as you have shown here. Now remember, I am very new to wood working. But I had exactly the same issue with my router. it was caused by trying to raise the router to high for the setting I was using. The washer also came loose on my router. Replaced the washer with a new one and have been careful not to force the router again. I have not had the problem since. One other thing, as you mentioned the router is hard to turn in the plunge base. I loosened the bolt on the flip lock a small amount and it really helped to be able turn the router and insert it and remove it from the base. I hope this may help.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Barry747 said:


> From the photos it looks like the "C" shaped washer came loose from the bottom of the screw and let the adjustment go beyond it's limits. If I'm right and on rare occasions I am, normally during a full solar eclipse, you may be able to move the washer back up to the bottom of the screw, there should be a channel for it, and that might permit you to lower the adjustment. I had a similar problem with my 1617 and that fixed it. I had raised the bit and it wasn't quite high enough so I gave it a couple of extra turns and popped the washer. I'm now very cautious so that I don't raise or lower the bit beyond it's limits. I hope this helps and saves you from having to pay repair costs.


I did that on my 1617 Bosch in the table using the fixed base. Then put a router lift instead of using the fixed base and problem went away.
I tried to replace the "C" shaped washers I bought at the hardware store were not quite the right size, or didn't spring back after being installed. Maybe they were Metric instead of Imperial, if there is such a thing.
Herb


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

harrysin said:


> It's good to see that at least you attempted to use a router again Tom, that will extend your title of "routologist" for a further six months! I do hope that your health has improved.


Thanks very much Harry. I have assumed for myself the title of "Forum Freeloader, expanding on your suggestion that I would lose the title of "routologist"

Actually my health is doing OK, except for the injuries that come with not being able to feel pain, and the consequences of "severe" osteoarthritis in both thumbs that caused Medicare to pay for a power wheelchair . I do have many other things going on however that keep me distracted from things I would rather be doing.

I am trying to set up for some major work that I will be photo-shooting and showing, but I don't want to say anything until I actually have something done.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> Call Bosch CS and tell them what you told us...
> looks like to ran the adjustments to the stops and jammed the motor into the base...
> 
> 1-877-267-2499...


Thanks very much @Stick486, I now have that phone number in my contact list. Unfortunately I have been distracted by other issues today but Bosch CS will hear from me.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> Thanks very much @Stick486, I now have that phone number in my contact list. Unfortunately I have been distracted by other issues today but Bosch CS will hear from me.


that sounded kinda terse for something you did by forcing the adjustment past it's stops...
RTFM and learn about the adjustment limits...
be nice when you call them.....


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Same thing happened to me. The "C" clip came off. I bought two replacements. I also read where a guy replaced the clip with a locking collar...something like the one pictured.

https://www.gamut.com/p/climax-meta...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COHGntC-qtQCFQEMPwodqCgBlg


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Barry747 said:


> From the photos it looks like the "C" shaped washer came loose from the bottom of the screw and let the adjustment go beyond it's limits. If I'm right and on rare occasions I am, normally during a full solar eclipse, you may be able to move the washer back up to the bottom of the screw, there should be a channel for it, and that might permit you to lower the adjustment. I had a similar problem with my 1617 and that fixed it. I had raised the bit and it wasn't quite high enough so I gave it a couple of extra turns and popped the washer. I'm now very cautious so that I don't raise or lower the bit beyond it's limits. I hope this helps and saves you from having to pay repair costs.


 @Barry747, I fully agree with your diagnosis. 
I have managed to free the motor but I am having no luck moving the C shaped washer back into place. It is not a standard


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> Same thing happened to me. The "C" clip came off. I bought two replacements. I also read where a guy replaced the clip with a locking collar...something like the one pictured.
> 
> https://www.gamut.com/p/climax-meta...gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=COHGntC-qtQCFQEMPwodqCgBlg


That is what I ended up doing only it was one I made myself.
Herb


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> that sounded kinda terse for something you did by forcing the adjustment past it's stops...
> RTFM and learn about the adjustment limits...
> be nice when you call them.....


 @Stick486, I have long recognized that the person on the other end of the phone probably has no involvement with what went on before, so I promise I will be nice to them. 

Actually given the time table for repairs, and that this week is one of the very few times I face a deadline for a woodworking project, I was so enraged> at Bosch that I bought and this afternoon received a brand new MRC23EVS. Now I will be able to mix and match bases, etc.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

when you talk to the real deal Bosch CS you will think differently..
just take the time ti RTM...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> that sounded kinda terse for something you did by forcing the adjustment past it's stops...
> RTFM and learn about the adjustment limits...
> be nice when you call them.....





Stick486 said:


> when you talk to the real deal Bosch CS you will think differently..
> just take the time ti RTM...


 @Stick486, not only did I RTM I on multiple occasions I did careful RTFM. Given that several others have reported similar problems with Bosch routers (see above posts) I refuse to accept all the blame. 

In addition the MRC23EVS manual is poorly written. I have written enough things of a similar nature that I recognize poor writing when I see it. I could over a weekend probably produce a much better written manual. 

(It has been enough years that the manual for my Bosch dishwasher can no longer be found, as I recall that manual was not particularly well written either; manuals made in China?)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Our daughter teaches 'Technical Writing'; she has an unending stock of humorous anecdotes from her students' submissions. 
I remember the User Manual that came with my first Honda motorcycle, back in '64. Totally unintelligible!
We learned how to service our bikes by trial and error and sharing our screwups and successes with other owners. (Sort of like here, now that I think of it...)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

okay...ya turned the wrench till ya hit the stops and kept turning/forced it till it broke...
so it wasn't your fault...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Our daughter teaches 'Technical Writing'; she has an unending stock of humorous anecdotes from her students' submissions.
> I remember the User Manual that came with my first Honda motorcycle, back in '64. Totally unintelligible!
> We learned how to service our bikes by trial and error and sharing our screwups and successes with other owners. (Sort of like here, now that I think of it...)


I remember trying to read the instructions for an alarm clock I bought once upon a time. It was hilarious. Obviously translated several times before it was printed. Definitely not proofread by an English speaking person. :surprise::grin:


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

DaninVan said:


> Our daughter teaches 'Technical Writing'; she has an unending stock of humorous anecdotes from her students' submissions.
> I remember the User Manual that came with my first Honda motorcycle, back in '64. Totally unintelligible!
> We learned how to service our bikes by trial and error and sharing our screwups and successes with other owners. (Sort of like here, now that I think of it...)


As part of my day job teaching technical writing was part of my duties. I know exactly what your daughter has!


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> okay...ya turned the wrench till ya hit the stops and kept turning/forced it till it broke...
> so it wasn't your fault...


Stick, I did not intend to say I was completely blameless; only that the manual is very terse and lacking in the kind of detail that might have prevented my problems


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> Stick, I did not intend to say I was completely blameless; only that the manual is very terse and lacking in the kind of detail that might have prevented my problems


tell this to Bosch CS...
they listen...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

mftha said:


> Stick, I did not intend to say I was completely blameless; only that the manual is very terse and lacking in the kind of detail that might have prevented my problems


Tom, don't feel bad, I did a dumb stunt to break mine, I thought I would make a power lift out of it, but my reaction time was not as fast as required to let off on the driver and it stripped off the "C" washer.
Herb :wub::wub:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Tom, don't feel bad, I did a dumb stunt to break mine, I thought I would make a power lift out of it, but my reaction time was not as fast as required to let off on the driver and it stripped off the "C" washer.
> Herb :wub::wub:


The 'Tim Taylor' school of thought... :grin:


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I just talked to Bosch customer service. After I got past the robo system to a live person, it did indeed go very well and the person listened to everything, from description of my issue to the rudeness and unwillingness of the nearby place. The person also took note of my comments about the inadequacy of the manual. I was disappointed that the phone answerer was not aware of Router Forums, so I described it to him and perhaps he will send a message t someone there, and I hope I gave enough information to fond this thread. I also described Router Forums as a near living ad for Bosch routers. I warned them about @Stick486 :grin:

So, Stick, I was very nice to the phone answerer and I was very satisfied with how it went.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

mftha said:


> I just talked to Bosch customer service. After I got past the robo system to a live person, it did indeed go very well and the person listened to everything, from description of my issue to the rudeness and unwillingness of the nearby place. The person also took note of my comments about the inadequacy of the manual. I was disappointed that the phone answerer was not aware of Router Forums, so I described it to him and perhaps he will send a message t someone there, and I hope I gave enough information to fond this thread. I also described Router Forums as a near living ad for Bosch routers. I warned them about @Stick486 :grin:
> 
> So, Stick, I was very nice to the phone answerer and I was very satisfied with how it went.


 Not aware of our forum ? Sacrilege ! :grin:


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

mftha;1581553
So said:


> So, Tom, how did it "went"? What was their solution to the problem?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Barry747 said:


> So, Tom, how did it "went"? What was their solution to the problem?


Having dealt with Bosch CS, I suspect; the clip is already in the mail (probably at no charge), or another CS repair center was suggested (where because of the lousy customer service perform by an independent repair shop) the repair will be expedited.

What you won't see behind the scenes, is, that, the first repair center will either change their attitudes drastically, or will no longer be a Bosch repair center.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

What Bill said.
From my own experience with our own independent repair depot up here, the communication between them, Bosch and myself was excellent, the response from both of them to my issue was exemplary.
THAT's why _I_ rave on about Bosch customer service (Bosch replaced my saw at absolutely no expense to myself, on the recommendation of the service depot!)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Not aware of our forum ? Sacrilege ! :grin:


they are...
maybe just not that person...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> they are...
> maybe just not that person...


I suspect you are absolutely correct. Bosch does have a very wide product line; actually the first Bosch product I bought was a dishwasher. With my typical luck the phone answerer primarily dealt with household appliances.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Barry747 said:


> So, Tom, how did it "went"? What was their solution to the problem?





schnewj said:


> Having dealt with Bosch CS, I suspect; the clip is already in the mail (probably at no charge), or another CS repair center was suggested (where because of the lousy customer service perform by an independent repair shop) the repair will be expedited.
> 
> What you won't see behind the scenes, is, that, the first repair center will either change their attitudes drastically, or will no longer be a Bosch repair center.





DaninVan said:


> What Bill said.
> From my own experience with our own independent repair depot up here, the communication between them, Bosch and myself was excellent, the response from both of them to my issue was exemplary.
> THAT's why _I_ rave on about Bosch customer service (Bosch replaced my saw at absolutely no expense to myself, on the recommendation of the service depot!)


I sent the fixed base to a place in my State. The phone answerer was very interested in my reaction when it was first suggested I take it to the "job is too small for us" place.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; I'm a little slow this PM. The "phone answer" at Bosch? If so did you get the impression that he/she was not happy with _your_ response, or that of the independent shop's?
(I shouldn't do the blog thing after 'happy hour'...)


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

DaninVan said:


> Tom; I'm a little slow this PM. The "phone answer" at Bosch? If so did you get the impression that he/she was not happy with _your_ response, or that of the independent shop's?
> (I shouldn't do the blog thing after 'happy hour'...)


Dan, perhaps I should have been more clear that the phone answerer agreed the independent shop's response was not what Bosch wanted or expected.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

I recently recommended a Bosch jigsaw on a facebook group I am on, and one of the members posted that Bosch customer service was just moved to the Philippines. He went on to say that he was told that it was his fault that the screws were coming out of his sander... apparently he was holding it wrong. 

I struggle to believe this, based on the glowing results that members here have got when they have called. I guess it depends upon who you get on the phone.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I find that CS being moved thing a bit hard to believe(?). Why would they basically trash the thing that sets them apart?
I'd really like to have that confirmed by Bosch. 
It may be that they have a Pacific Division that needs to be serviced in a more local manner?

_
* I just queried them. Could be a couple of days before I get an answer back._


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

My phone answerer was in West Memphis, a city in Arkansas across the river from Memphis TN.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

mftha said:


> @Barry747, I fully agree with your diagnosis.
> I have managed to free the motor but I am having no luck moving the C shaped washer back into place. It is not a standard


 somehow this post got posted before I was finished. I intended for it to read: 

@Barry747, I fully agree with your diagnosis. 
I have managed to free the motor but I am having no luck moving the C shaped washer back into place. It is not a standard C clamp washer. Thereare no holes with which to insert the prongs of a c-clamp pliers, so there was no way I had at my disposal to remove it"

Hey everyone who has contributed to this thread, (yes, even you @Stick486 for our where to assign blame discussion>) Thank you very much. I feel I am on the path to shedding my Forum Freeloader ranking


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm waiting for when you get all excited about the the router quit working...


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

mftha said:


> My phone answerer was in West Memphis, a city in Arkansas across the river from Memphis TN.


Good to hear Tom. I'm glad we didn't loose another one to an off-shore support system. I have no personal knowledge of this, only went by what the other person claimed.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

BrianS said:


> Good to hear Tom. I'm glad we didn't loose another one to an off-shore support system. I have no personal knowledge of this, only went by what the other person claimed.


The phone answerer did not have a Filipino [I have to give away my presumed gender of the phone answerer] accent. I would have a high probability of recognizing a Filipino or Filipina accent; I worked as a consultant to the Philippines National Science and Technology Authority (Ministry of Science) and volunteered to teach at the Ag campus of the University of Philippines. 

Of course I cannot speak to plans, but I fully agree I hope very much that Bosch keeps Customer Service for North America in North America.

I looked up Bosch Inc and it is an amazingly diverse company with surprising subsidiaries, including Dremel, Rotozip, Skil (??), etc.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> I'm waiting for when you get all excited about the the router quit working...



Why would I "get all excited about the router quit working?"


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Be great if they could restore Skil to it's early place in the market.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mftha said:


> Why would I "get all excited about the router quit working?"


the motor is down into the base quite far enough and the male/female buss bars aren't mated together...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Be great if they could restore Skil to it's early place in the market.


Include Porter Cable in that too, Dan.

Herb


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Look what the UPS deliverer just delivered! 
As far as I can tell, even though I bought this router from Amazon Dec 31, 2014 the repair price and the shipping price combined appears to the almost unaffordable :smile::grin: $0.00.
Bosch CS is as good as @Stick486 said, and perhaps even better.

Yes @Stick486 I do accept _some_ of the blame for what happened, but I do not appreciate the implication that I am some kind of ignoramus nincompoop.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

nothing was implied...
glad ya liked the CS ya got...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

OK Stick. Now I have the experience so I would like to add my voice to the chorus singing the praises of Bosch CS. (But you really do not want to hear me sing; I once won a talentless contest with my singing :grin


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

every time I start singing gun fire erupts...
I don't know if they're trying to put me outta my misery or theirs... 

glad ya finally listen on the Bosch CS....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

BrianS said:


> I recently recommended a Bosch jigsaw on a facebook group I am on, and one of the members posted that Bosch customer service was just moved to the Philippines. He went on to say that he was told that it was his fault that the screws were coming out of his sander... apparently he was holding it wrong.
> 
> I struggle to believe this, based on the glowing results that members here have got when they have called. I guess it depends upon who you get on the phone.


I wouldn't believe it either...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I find that CS being moved thing a bit hard to believe(?). Why would they basically trash the thing that sets them apart?
> I'd really like to have that confirmed by Bosch.
> It may be that they have a Pacific Division that needs to be serviced in a more local manner?
> 
> ...


talked to John..
moved - no...
but there is a call center in the Philippines for those that have Bosch and live in the Philippines...
same for many other places around the world... @DaninVan...
is your call center in Canada or did you reach one here in the States...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Be great if they could restore Skil to it's early place in the market.


it's the Bosch line for those that think strictly w/ their wallets....


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> talked to John..
> moved - no...
> but there is a call center in the Philippines for those that have Bosch and live in the Philippines...
> same for many other places around the world...
> ...


I think it's in Colorado . I phoned the 1-800 number , and Stick answered ?


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