# Elliptical box



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Here’s my attempt at Tom’s elliptical box project. It’s not perfect but it was a good learning experience. After reading Keith Stephen’s posts in the wood species forum I decided to combine the three woods that he described so that I could get a feel for working with each of them, so I ended up with a mahogany and ash box with a lyptus lid. 

The first picture is of the three parts of the box. I made a template that indexed to my jig and I used the router with a guide bushing to insert the small dowel holes for aligning the two sections of the base during glue up. These alignment holes were inserted before I removed the sections from the jig and the pieces aligned nicely. The second picture is of the two sections pinned, and the third picture is with the lid inserted.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Here's some pictures of the templates and jigs I used to make the box.

1.)I made a simple elliptical jig that consists of two dowels for the fixed pivot points, two blocks that pivot on the dowels and a piece of mdf with two perpendicular dado slots for the pivot blocks to slide in.

2.)I used the slots in the elliptical jig and a drill bar to locate indexing holes in the templates and the jig. The drill bar was just a piece of ½” cold rolled steel bar stock with a series of ¼” pilot holes drilled 1 inch apart.

3.)Elliptical jig in use. I clamp the ski jig to the table and rotate the elliptical jig to cut the templates.

4.)I will be using a 1.5” diameter template guide and a 1” diameter cutter to route the interior of the base section of the box. This guide and cutter combination creates a 1/4” offset for my template, so by using a 1/4” cutter with the elliptical jig I was able to create the female template for the interior and the male templates or plugs for the exterior of the box at the same time.

5.)I used the indexing holes in the templates to secure the stock to the elliptical jig while cutting the templates.

6.)I used the female template for the base to create the female template for the lid. The template for the lid needed to be ¼” smaller on all sides than the template for the base, so by using a ¾” diameter template guide with a ¼” cutter I was able to cut the female and male templates for the lid at the same time.

7.)The jig is used to secure the stock and index the templates.

8.)I made the base section of the box in two separate pieces so I made a template to insert 1/8” dowels holes for aligning the two pieces for gluing.

9.)Using the template to insert the alignment dowel holes.

10.)Ready to route the base interior.

11.)Routing the base exterior.

12.)I made a male template the same size as the base exterior and used it with a 1.5” guide bushing and a ¾” straight cutter to create a small lip around the base to be used to add the cove profile.

13.)Plug fitted to base and lip routed.

14.)Upper section of base completed.

15.)Stock for lid attached to jig 

16.)Plug fitted in lid.

17.)Lid interior and exterior cuts completed.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

Nice job  ,,,I like it 

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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Greg

the way you got there was a little complicated, but the end result is very nice!

good job!


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Good job Greg looks great!


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi Greg,

A GREAT job and the pictures are fantastic as well as ever so helpful. Thanks for a wonderful post.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Congratulations Greg on a job well done. I look in every day to see if anyone is using the method I have been trying to promote, and yours is the first. I notice you have used a number of methods that I do not use and you still come up with the goods. I hope others will have a go at the method. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more and more of your projects. Once you understand the system (and I am convinced you do)it becomes more and more interesting.
Tom


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks for the comments. I think that this is one of those things where it is much easier to actually do it than it is to explain how to do it, so that may be why it could seem to be overly complicated to some people 

The elliptical jig worked out a lot better than I imagined. It can also be used to make any size circle up to about a 22 inch diameter (or 56cm ) and you don’t need to put a center hole in the circle for a pivot point. 

Tom, I was definitely improvising as I went along so if I did deviate from the methods that you presented it was mainly because I didn’t fully understand them so I just ended up doing what made sense to me. 

I appreciate the comments and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

gregW said:


> Thanks for the comments. I think that this is one of those things where it is much easier to actually do it than it is to explain how to do it, so that may be why it could seem to be overly complicated to some people
> 
> The elliptical jig worked out a lot better than I imagined. It can also be used to make any size circle up to about a 22 inch diameter (or 56cm ) and you don’t need to put a center hole in the circle for a pivot point.
> 
> ...


Greg
That is what it is all about, trying new methods. That is how I first taught myself the method I improvised as I went along, as no book material was available at that time.

The biggest problem I get told often is "The making of the Templates", which I whole heartedly agree with, as it is not simple producing a few pics of the templates showing what has been done, it is explaining how the templates can be achieved. To this end I have started to re-write some of my material and include a full size drawing of the template cut-out for others to use, saving everyone all the necessary calculations. Just stick it to the template material then do the necessary cut out with what tool you require. Though I had great delight at producing the templates it was something different and very rewarding.

Enclosed drawings of the legs for a three legged wine table that can be produced using my method. Also a shield shape with the template required

Tom


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

An outstanding thread Greg., solving the problems from basic ideas has, in my opinion, equipped you to proceed to all manner of projects. The photo shoot is exactly what I have been pushing for this last couple of years.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Doak said:


> Greg
> That is what it is all about, trying new methods. That is how I first taught myself the method I improvised as I went along, as no book material was available at that time.
> 
> The biggest problem I get told often is "The making of the Templates", which I whole heartedly agree with, as it is not simple producing a few pics of the templates showing what has been done, it is explaining how the templates can be achieved. To this end I have started to re-write some of my material and include a full size drawing of the template cut-out for others to use, saving everyone all the necessary calculations. Just stick it to the template material then do the necessary cut out with what tool you require. Though I had great delight at producing the templates it was something different and very rewarding.
> ...


Tom,

The templates for the elliptical box were all extremely simple to make. I can see now that was probably your reason for presenting this project, as a type of “introduction”.

Your idea of producing the full size drawings of the template layouts sounds like a good idea for some, but I think that most people would benefit much more from seeing how you actually go about the layout and making of your templates. This is obviously a skill that you have mastered, and as you stated one of the aspects of your process that you take great delight in and find most rewarding. After all, as you acknowledge producing the templates is what most people have the biggest problem with, so why not place more emphasis on teaching people that particular aspect of your process?

I understand the template for the shield, but its early morning here and I’m still trying to figure out the drawing of the leg template that you posted…

Thanks,


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

harrysin said:


> An outstanding thread Greg., solving the problems from basic ideas has, in my opinion, equipped you to proceed to all manner of projects. The photo shoot is exactly what I have been pushing for this last couple of years.


Thanks Harry..it was a fun project to do and a good learning experience for me!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

I know I should not say this because I will get a shot from TT and Harry ,maybe not from Harry because he knows you can skin the cat many ways not just one,,you can use a scroll saw to make a master template of the Oval, if you make a big master ( 10" x 12" inside diam,) it can be used for many sizes.

One template and you have all you need..with the BRASS guides and some offset rings..or just by switching out the guides on the base of the router,you can make the base and the lid very easy and in about 1/3 the time you have it done..
You can do the same thing for making candy dish's,boxes,etc. just by placing a small insert into the template when you router the center out... (floating type)

I should note I have 4 master templates now ( from 4" to 6" to the 10" x 12" ) no need for both templates to make one size..

Now I wait for the shot from TT and Harry (maybe Harry ) telling me that's not the way to do it, but it works for me,,,,,without all extra the work 

=========


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Greg
> 
> I know I should not say this because I will get a shot from TT and Harry ,maybe not from Harry because he knows you can skin the cat many ways not just one,,you can use a scroll saw to make a master template of the Oval, if you make a big master ( 10" x 12" inside diam,) it can be used for many sizes.
> 
> ...


Bob,

I’m sure I don’t have near as much experience using a scroll saw as you do, but I know there is no way I could ever cut a female template on a scroll saw as precise or even as quickly as I can with an oval jig.

The oval jig I used was made from about $5 worth of material I had laying around and I was able to cut the oval templates in less than 10 minutes with no sanding required. The male and the female templates were cut from the same piece of material at the same time so there was no waste. 

I don’t know what you base the “1/3 of the time on” but I think that it probably didn’t take me much longer to remove the female template and pop the male template into the recess as it would take me to change the template guide or to add an offset ring.

For me some of the advantages of using the male template in addition to the female template were:

1)I was able to plunge the depth outside of the material and then begin the cut on the exterior portions of the project.

2)If I came off of the templates guide surface during the cut it would be in the waste material and would not damage the part.

3)By taking small cuts I was able to get a very nice surface finish. I could even perform climb cuts in some areas with no danger to myself or to the part.


These things didn't seem to be as much of an issue with mdf, but they seemed to be worthwhile when working with the hardwoods.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

I use the scroll saw because many wood workers have one in the home shop but I also use the oval jig below,that's real quick also..aging I make one master and from that point it's easy or you can make as many sizes you want with a oval jig..with a small master you can stick it to some stock and drop in the guide in the router table and make as many that's needed,,,now I know I will get a shot from TT ,he just hates the router tables and the guides that can be used on them.. 

I got the one on sale at a great deal,,45.oo dollars..
Again many ways to skin the cat on this one..

Rockler Ellipse/Circle Router Jig - Internet Only Special! - Rockler Woodworking Tools

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gregW said:


> Bob,
> 
> I’m sure I don’t have near as much experience using a scroll saw as you do, but I know there is no way I could ever cut a female template on a scroll saw as precise or even as quickly as I can with an oval jig.
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Greg,

BobJ makes some great points and as a woodworker for 40 years plus is very knowledgeable. i see you have 2 years in the bag, so try and learn from a seasoned guy.

i see you seem to have some connection with doak and thats great, doak has his ways and BobJ has his. you cant say one is better.

i will say that BobJ's one template method is simple. i tried to follow doaks methods but you couldnt understand what he was saying and he seemed agitated if you didnt.

i have never asked BobJ a question and he seemed agitated !


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

levon said:


> hi Greg,
> 
> BobJ makes some great points and as a woodworker for 40 years plus is very knowledgeable. i see you have 2 years in the bag, so try and learn from a seasoned guy.
> 
> ...



Levon,
One of the great things about a forum like this is that it allows everyone to share experiences with knowledgeable people from all over the world.

I don’t consider myself to be an experienced woodworker, just someone who loves to learn new things. That’s why I try to always keep an open mind and to respect and value everyone’s opinion, and if someone presents a way to do something to me I will always at least make an attempt to try it out before discounting it, so that I can make an informed decision. 

Don’t get me wrong, if the method appears to have no merit to me I will not attempt it, but by having never attempted it I also feel that I am in no position to post negative comments on it.

In my opinion, to make a statement about how long it takes to perform a process that someone has never attempted is a sign of ignorance.

I had little problem understanding the concepts that Tom presented, and every time I have ever asked him to clarify anything he has been willing to answer all of the questions I had. Did you ever actually ask Tom for help when you couldn’t understand what he presented?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is something that members get agitated over for no reason. There is no wrong way to complete these projects. There are different ways to complete them. I say study both methods and use what works best for you. Then everyone is happy.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Mike said:


> This is something that members get agitated over for no reason. There is no wrong way to complete these projects. There are different ways to complete them. I say study both methods and use what works best for you. Then everyone is happy.


Mike, 

I totally agree with you 

I was never agitated and I definitely wasn't trying to agitate anyone else by creating this thread and posting the pictures of how I made the project. I also wasn't trying to start an argument, just trying to understand Bob's statements about doing the project in 1/3 of the time and a scroll saw being quicker and better than the simple oval jig I made. 

Personally I don’t care if he uses a scroll saw, a steak knife or even a sharp rock 

As long as it works for him and he’s having a good time doing it that’s all that really matters.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Greg
> 
> I use the scroll saw because many wood workers have one in the home shop but I also use the oval jig below,that's real quick also..aging I make one master and from that point it's easy or you can make as many sizes you want with a oval jig..with a small master you can stick it to some stock and drop in the guide in the router table and make as many that's needed,,,now I know I will get a shot from TT ,he just hates the router tables and the guides that can be used on them..
> 
> ...


Bob,

The oval jig that you bought from Rockler would not work for this project because it is limited in that it can’t create an oval smaller than 9-1/2” x 17-1/2”. The small oval jig I made is able to make any size oval up to about 20”x 22” quickly and safely, and it can be made in less than 15 minutes with stuff you have laying around the shop. 

No need to make a “master” template to step down from when you can skip that step and use the jig directly to make your finished product.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Let us all take a deep breath and clarify what this is all about.

Methods introduced to the forum and "pushed" along by me are intended to show members that here are some alternative methods to add to your armoury. I have stated on several occasions for instance that skis are by no means the best way to tackle many operations, BUT, they are, once you are familiar with their operation a very useful tool to add to one's collection. The same applies to template guides and plunge routing using female templates, having a working knowledge of the techniques involved gives you a choice of methods when about to solve a problem.

By no means do I go to the trouble of making a template for a one off job if I can find a simple fast alternative as I've demonstrated in numerous photo shoots.

There was a time early on when I seriously considered leaving the forum because of the type of post by Bj and a couple of others, the latter two left the forum and I began to understand how Bj's mind worked. No one can dispute Bj's knowledge, based on actual personal experience, no one can dispute that he calls a spade a spade, sometimes with a lack of subtlety, however he really does mean well and any and all of his shortcomings are overshadowed by what he gives to the forum.

I realise that I run the risk of temporally upsetting Bj for giving him this testimonial but I consider it worth the risk.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Greg

(" Maximum difference between minor and major axes is 8")

Once you have the master you can use the 1 1/2" brass guide and the off set ring to make any size, let say 1 1/2" guide and 3 1/2" OD offset ring,that can be use for the 2nd.template to be used for the 6" x 8" oval..that can be used to make the oval and the lid all with one template..

Take a peek at my gallery and you will see that's how I did it with the (scroll saw type in the snapshot) 
but the rockler oval jig can be used to make the bigger master. to make a table top and a lid if needed for it..that's on my want to do list,, one template for the main frame of the table and use the same template for the filp up lid..


But I will say it will work both ways yours and mine 
By the way I have don't it both ways..I just like the one master way..

http://www.routerforums.com/112932-post18.html
http://www.routerforums.com/113261-post25.html

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gregW said:


> Bob,
> 
> The oval jig that you bought from Rockler would not work for this project because it is limited in that it can’t create an oval smaller than 9-1/2” x 17-1/2”. The small oval jig I made is able to make any size oval up to about 20”x 22” quickly and safely, and it can be made in less than 15 minutes with stuff you have laying around the shop.
> 
> No need to make a “master” template to step down from when you can skip that step and use the jig directly to make your finished product.


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

*Working with Template guides*

I thought I would return to clear up any misunderstanding about the use of the guides. 

When I had posted some material on how to make the elliptical trinket box in question, it was posted as an introduction to the use of the guides, not how to prepare an elliptical shape. Working with guides goes far beyond just producing a simple little box. It was my intention to show how I produced a TRUE elliptical shape and in this instance I would have reduced the shape to the size I wanted as Bj indicated because I did not have a Jig suitable to produce such a small size at the time, so I have no quarrels about using the method Bj used, only I was not convinced that he had produced a *true shape *in the first place as he produced it with a scroll saw making one half then turning over to make the second half the same, and inperfections were visable at the time. That was not the issue, it was producing a true elliptcal shape small enough for thr box construction. So let me stress the point* working with template guides is not just producing an elliptical shape*

I had considered the box was a good place to begin understanding the benefits of the guides, as it involved only two female and two male templates to complete the project. These templates I considered easy to produce as long as they were TRUE shapes.

Greg has at least tried to understand the method and has done exceptionally well and introduced a few of his own ideas to produce a nice box. What we want to see is an alternative method put into practice and demonstated in the same way Greg has done instead of sitting back saying I would do it another way. Why not just show everyone your method.

There are some members say that many of the processes I have submitted can be achieved on the router Table (With the router used in the table) just to clarify what I mean by in the router table. There are obviously some of the processes can be achieved using that that method. What I am saying some of the processes can be done with GREATER SAFETY when produced in the plunge mode.

If we should move away from the elliptical box to another project, something small that *may not* be purchased in a shop. Say a solid timber handle for a cabinet in you favourite timber. Usually unavailable for purchase therefore we must make the effort to produce them by hand, or maybe by using the router in the table, or in the plunge mode. Certainly they can be produced with a scroll saw, then with lots of filing and sanding you have the finished item. Can it be done on the router table? I suppose the answer is yes, though I have never tried it, but I have completed the project with the router in the plunge mode with the aid of template guides, because I proved it could be done with greater safety awareness.

The handle is a more complex article to produce, therefore that was the reason for not submitting it as an introduction to the use of the guides.

Let's look at ant another small project, a project that took Bj's fancy when I submitted it before. Small cabinet door. Again another such project that was more complex to introduce as an introduction to the use of the guides.

Finally (by no means the final project in my collection) is a small mantle clock, again this required more detail to produce and I considered not suitable as an introduction to the use of the guides.

Not to mention all the various processes incorporated into the construction of my Dining room chairs, again not a good place to start to introduce template guides.


*The point I am trying to make is that the following projects could not have been produced with Bjs on Elliptical template*

Tom


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