# Did I get a knock off Freud router bit?



## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

I recently got introduced to 1/2" Freud router bits...unknowingly I had been using some of there Diablo brand from HD but they are 1/4 shank. I recently tried my hand at making cabinets and upgraded my router to one that accepts 1/2" shank. After an epic fail with some cheap no brand bits I tried Freud rail and stile bit. I placed an order with Amazon earlier this week when one of my bits arrived it was not the red I am use to seeing. Is this bit legit? It came in a white box with with a white sticker on the outside that says the item number (85-362) but no plastic packaging. The bit has Freud on the shank but the cutting edge is not red.

Thanks in advance


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

That is a good question, Henry. I would like to know the answer my self.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

does it say where it was made???
Freud is red... Italy..
Gold is Gerber... china..


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> does it say where it was made???
> Freud is red...
> Gold is Gerber...


Stick486 - Will it say on the bit somewhere? I think I may have gotten scammed...lol. I looked in my catalog and it does not look right and what is the plastic piece? Attached is what I received. I cant see how this is legit.


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> That is a good question, Henry. I would like to know the answer my self.


hawkeye10 - I am new to their bits but the packaging alone makes me think I have an issue . Only think I can think is they have not always been red...lol.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

nightowl said:


> hawkeye10 - I am new to their bits but the packaging alone makes me think I have an issue . Only think I can think is they have not always been red...lol.



Henry, this is where I buy most of my bits. They carry Whiteside made in the USA and shipping is free. If you want just one bit that is okay.

https://www.hartvilletool.com/


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I have never bought a freud bit with that protective coating on it, have other brands that had it.
If it was me I would call freud and ask them, just cause i would want to know. It is possible they are package that way, for a bulk shipment.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

time to call Freud...
I have bought 1,000's of their bits and have never seen them come packaged that way nor coated...

Freud 85-362 3/8" Radius Solid Surface Round Over Router Bit (1/2" Shank)
https://www.acetool.com/Freud-85-362-Rounding-Over-Bit-p/fre-85-362.htm
https://www.amazon.com/Freud-Radius-Rounding-Shank-85-362/dp/B001J9I7CE


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> Henry, this is where I buy most of my bits. They carry Whiteside made in the USA and shipping is free. If you want just one bit that is okay.
> 
> https://www.hartvilletool.com/


hawkeye10 - Thanks I recently found them as well. I ordered from Amazon because it was Prime shipping and I wanted to finish the cabinets doors this weekend. I have a few more bits I plan on purchasing so I will keep them in mind when I place my next order. I think I saw a new router fence on there I might want to buy when I was searching the other day. Free shipping is always great!



Semipro said:


> I have never bought a freud bit with that protective coating on it, have other brands that had it.
> If it was me I would call freud and ask them, just cause i would want to know. It is possible they are package that way, for a bulk shipment.


Semipro - I will just send it back tomorrow. 



Stick486 said:


> time to call Freud...
> I have bought 1,000's of their bits and have never seen them come packaged that way nor coated...
> 
> Freud 85-362 3/8" Radius Solid Surface Round Over Router Bit (1/2" Shank)
> ...


Stick486 - I think this may be a case where the picture is not what they are selling...lol. The Amazon link you sent is the exact same place I purchased from on Valentines Day...lol. This will be going back pronto! I want to see the plastic box and the red color...lol. The other two bits I brought from a third party seller on Amazon arrived just fine. They sold me the rail and stile set. I may just stick with them or the Hartvilltool site that has the free shipping .

Thanks everyone for the input! So much for finishing the cabinet doors and drawer fronts tomorrow. I may just use the finger pull door bit and call it a day. I will try to call Freud tomorrow and keep you guys posted on what they say.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FWIW..
there are threads on counterfeit goods here and on other forums that came through Amazon...
seems some of their 3rd party sellers are a bit shady..

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/109937-bewaare-garrett-super-scanner-v.html


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I have bought freud bits on Amazon they came in the plastic case and red, like you free delivery.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I just check Freud page here a picture of a 85-362 router bit on their page 
Look no red paint?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

does it say Freud on the shank and place of birth???


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> FWIW..
> there are threads on counterfeit goods here and on other forums that came through Amazon...
> seems some of their 3rd party sellers are a bit shady..
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/109937-bewaare-garrett-super-scanner-v.html


Stick486 - No that's just sad. Looks like they like the white box too...lol. White box = bad.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

This is deja vu! We had this same discussion over CMT moving some of their production to China. 
My main reasons for buying CMT blades and bits (Italy) was their claiming German steel and Carbide in their tools...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

@nightowl, When I go to this web site Freud Tools | Products I find the round over bit shown below and the 85-362 is not listed. However, when I search for that number I get this image in the second picture. The Amazon page shows a red bit.Amazon sells both bits, and the pages both show red bits. Why did you choose the 85-362 instead of the less expensive quadra cut 34-124 bit?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> This is deja vu! We had this same discussion over CMT moving some of their production to China.
> My main reasons for buying CMT blades and bits (Italy) was their claiming German steel and Carbide in their tools...


Amana did the same...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> Amana did the same...


I would have to say that's correct. Look at the difference between the logos on these two bits. 
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Amana-54150...739648?hash=item239857b300:g:ZbgAAOSw3v5YtYvX
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Amana-45440...491034?hash=item28510ce39a:g:iXsAAOSwm0Jag4aq


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## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't think all their bits are red. I have a Freud adjustable T&G bit set that is not red. 

I just looked at their bits online and see several that are not red.

So this may be legitimate.


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## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

nightowl said:


> hawkeye10 - I am new to their bits but the packaging alone makes me think I have an issue . Only think I can think is they have not always been red...lol.


I've been using Freud cutters on and off since the early 1980s (about 35 years) and the bits I've bought and seen have almost always been red and come in plastic boxes. Only ever seen a few that had no paint at all (greyish). Over here the manufacturer must put their name and the speed rating on the shank by law - I'd have thought that with it being a CE standard and Freud still being European-owned (they are part of Robt. Bosch, a German firm) that it would have been adopted worldwide. Is it possible that Amazon were out of stock and supplied a substitution?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have a few Freud bits that are black.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

That gray bit looks like it came from a bulk bin. Like others have stated, plastic box on all the bits I have purchased.


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

I finally had a chance to speak to the Freud today. I will probably send the bit back but it is a legit bit. Keith was really helpful. I explained my situation and then when I was done he asked if the bit was gray. He informed that its a legit bit and its basically an outsourced bit built to their specs. Thanks to everyone that has chimed in on this. Luckily I did not get burnt on this one but looks like they are starting to outsource a few things .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

don't gamble...
get a red one...


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## nightowl (Oct 21, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> don't gamble...
> get a red one...


Stick486 - LOL I stared the send back process last night since it was Presidents Day weekend so earliest they are picking up is today. UPS should be here by 3:45 PM EST today hopefully. I found something I like for now so I am like its not Red I can't have it...lol. The cuts are so smooth. I may have to replace the bit soon though when I made my doors I used pin nails to secure the rails while I glued and clamped them. I don't see any nicks as of yet but i still have 6 more cabinet doors to finish that will have the same pin nails in them.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

nightowl said:


> I finally had a chance to speak to the Freud today. I will probably send the bit back but it is a legit bit. Keith was really helpful. I explained my situation and then when I was done he asked if the bit was gray. He informed that its a legit bit and its basically an outsourced bit built to their specs. Thanks to everyone that has chimed in on this. Luckily I did not get burnt on this one but looks like they are starting to outsource a few things .


Good info. Thanks for the update.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...He informed that its a legit bit and its *basically an outsourced bit* built to their specs."
-Henry

I'm psychic!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

out sourced...
like their Avanti blades..
get the real deal...


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

Here is a little story that you guys may find enlightening. A friend of mine was a seller of router bits. They were Chinese bits. He got into the importing of bits early in the 2000', not exactly sure of the date. It was before I met him. I know that some of the members on this board bought his stuff and may remember the name Blades and Bits. He imported thousands of bits over a 9 year period. He went through at least 5 Chinese manufacturers. They would start off producing good quality but would eventualy start cutting corners so he would drop them and use someone else. After being in the business for a while he decided to colour his cutters red. It wasn't that long until he recieved a letter from Freud's legal team to cease using the colour red as they had the rights to the colour red for cutters. He did as he didn't have the funds to fight them. He switched to blue and applied for the same rights to that colour. He told me that he notified Makita of this and that he had no intention of going after them. On a side note the retailer House of Tools also had the same issue with Freud using the colour red. I remember seeing some red bits in their store and they were heavely discounted. One of the store personel told me that they weren't allowed to advertise them because of a "Rights" issue. Anyway one day we were talking and he told me that if he could show that more than 50% of the cost of a cutter was incured in Canada that he could say Made in Canada. In other words say a bit cost $1 shipped to Canada. If he spent $1.01 laser engraving a name or logo on it he could claim it was made here. He also said that one of the factories he was using was also producing stuff for freud.


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