# I am going to buy a new table saw. Advice please.



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I am going to buy a new TS when I sell the one I have. I want a 10" saw that runs on 110 current. Grizzly has two hybrid was that look good and Sears has one for $600 that looks good. The Delta saws look good but I have read so much about the Delta line being bad that I need to be convinced to buy their products. I looked at Jets but it more than the others and had stamped wings on top. I don't make anything that is big. I just want a saw that cuts straight and no more than $1000. 

Just give your opinion on the saws you like.

Thanks Don


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## herrwood (Apr 19, 2014)

I was looking at the 2 lower priced grizzly 10" saw either the contractor or hybrid both seemed to have some good features.


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

I have a grizzly hybrid and could not be happier.


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

I ALWAYS reccomend looking at craigslist first. There are some GREAT deals to be had. I watch it frequently, and am willing to drive for 5 hours for the right deal. I just recently picked up a Grizzly 12" saw for $300, had the motor rebuilt for $240 and I now have a great saw for $540 plus my gas, (I drove about 300 miles one way to get it). I've done it before and I'd do it again. I now have 4 shop saws, 2 portable jobsite saws, 1 junk saw and 1 angry wife. I guess maybe I need to sell a couple of the shop saws, they're starting to take up too much room.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Whatever the outcome try to get a Biesemeyer fence . Most table saws I've seen in the $1000 range don't have a great fence ,and if the fence is crap it's not a good experience


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You sure we can't convince you to move up to a 220V?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> You sure we can't convince you to move up to a 220V?


Ya I couldn't go back


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## posthocfallacy (Jan 8, 2014)

I'll never buy another Delta product. I bought the contractors table saw with Uni-fence about six years ago. All the stand parts were SAE threads, all the saw threads were metric. I don't care whether the parts are SAE or Metric, but pick on and stick with it!!!!! At my place of business, my VP of manufacturing bought a Delta drill press because he thought they had a good reputation. We had a machinist rebuild the table lock that holds the table horizontal and the chuck had to be replaced. Delta is cheap and worth half what they charge. (IMHO)

I'm going to suggest that you spend the money for the hybrid or the enclosed saw for simplified dust collection. I didn't think that I needed dust collection, but I'm having some breathing problems now that can be traced to wood dust. Get dust collection and use it!


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Maybe you should make a list of what you don't like on your current table saw to make sure when you buy a new one so it does not have any of the problems of the last one you owned.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Dudley and welcome to the forum. I have to agree with some of the Delta products. I'm not sure I will ever buy another Delta product either. 

Rick is correct when he says the fence is what is important. You can pick up some very good used saws, as Jack suggests, and if you replace the stock fences with something good you'll have a great saw. I have the unifence on a Unisaw and it is very good. The Biese is also very good. I also have an old Rockwell that I put a Mule/Accusquare fence on and it is every bit as good as the Uni or the Biese and is at least a $100 cheaper.


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

One place to check out is Sears Outlet- check out the Craftsman 22116, if there's one available in your area. A great saw for the price.


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## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

Have you considered instead of a table saw to get a Festool track saw (or other brands). I made my own table for one to get dead-on accurate 90 degree cuts, less chance of kick-back, when attached to a vacuum you have minimum amount of dust. Even through I have a table saw I also use the track saw on occasions especially for putting an edge on a rough board, cutting pieces of sheet goods at odd angles, etc. Malcolm / Kentucky USA


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## Geevesmac (Jul 15, 2014)

I have the Laguna Fusion, which I am very happy with.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> You sure we can't convince you to move up to a 220V?


It's not out of the question. I don't need one of the 3 or 5 HP table saws. 

Don


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

If you're not in a hurry watch Craigs list as others have mentioned. Look for an old Craftsman belt drive cast iron saw or better yet a Delta Unisaw made back when they made good tools. The unisaw is three hp and 220 volt but you'll never regret buying one. Either of these saws will last you a lifetime. Another good option would be a Powermatic 66 or an older made in Canada General saw. The table saw is the heart of the workshop so buying something less than very good or better is wasting your money. Avoid the word China if possible and Grizzly in particular.


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## williamm (Oct 10, 2011)

I have survived owning two cheap contractor saws. The table and wings were flimsy and the inserts were constructed in such a way that I could not figure out how to make a zero clearance insert.
I have had a Craftsman 10" table saw with cast iron table for about a year and love it.
The miter slots are standard size. I have made zero clearance inserts, as well as jigs for miters and box joints.
It is a very reliable machine, in my opinion.
I plan on incorporating my router table top as an out-feed table which folds down for storage.
You can also get the same saw without the Craftsman brand and in a different color from Menards.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Don, 
A few things I would consider when looking at any table saw would be: can it accept a set of dado's, does it use (standard) 3/4" x 3/8" deep miter slots, does it use trunion not direct drive, I would check the stability of the fence when locked by putting my finger against the fence and table then see if it can be deflected by pushing from side to side, how smoothly does the fence slide and is the scale adjustable and easy to read, is the miter decent, can it be made mobile, cast iron top won't mark wood like aluminum could, stamped sheet metal wings are ok if they are well supported, 110v is fine for home use, 10" blades, does it use machined blade washers or does it have stamped blade washers, will it accept zero clearance inserts made from 3/8" or 1/2" standard thickness material, my preference is left tilting blade, does it have a riving knife and if so how easily can it adapt for different thickness blades.

If you find a saw that has most these basics, most of the other nuances can be overcome with accessories (dust control, feather boards, outfeed table, zero degree inserts, etc.). Once you get the saw before you even use it tune it to the best of your ability...blade parallel with slots, fence parallel with slots from end to end, extension table wings on the same plane as the main table, tilt stops adjusted at 90* and 45*, riving knife or guard support in line with saw kerf. A stable well tuned saw (and kept well tuned) is your second defense against an accident. Your first defense is your knowledge. Read and try to learn everything you can about the safe operation of your saw and apply that safety to everything you do on your table saw. I hope you find what your looking for.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

hawkeye10 said:


> It's not out of the question. I don't need one of the 3 or 5 HP table saws.
> 
> Don


Some of the saws that Sears has sold could be run on either voltage by re-configuring the wiring connections at the motor and they ran much better on 220.


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## BIG OLD TIM (May 13, 2014)

Don... don't count out the Porter Cable 10" TS. I have had one for about a year and have had no complaints at all. The dust collection system on it is very good, just hook to the outlet and go. The fence is as accurate as any and smooth operating. My next tool project is to put in a router table on the end. And it comes with a caster base that operates great! Put the saw anywhere you want it and one push of the foot lever and it is as stable as any saw on the market, lift the lever with your foot and you're ready to go. Runs about $650. at the blue box store. NO REGRETS HERE! 
Tim



Some days you are the Windshield and some days you are the BUG.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

*New Saw*

I am prone to the Bosch and the Ridged.. I know they are Big Store products. It sounds as if you are a hobbist woodworker. Both of theae saws have been rated well and each can be purchased with a portable stand. They can be used on eiher 110 or 220. Price is within the $600 range. The Ridged sells at Home Depot and the Bosh may be bought at either Home Depot or Lowe's. One other plus that i have found, if you neeed parts or repairs, both stores are very easy to work with to get parts and repairs. The Ridged has a lifetime guarntee, Good luck and enjoy your projects.


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## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

Craigslist, for sure, for great bargains. Be patient, and you'll find a great saw. Use it before you buy it. Look under the hood.

Biesemeyer fence, for sure.

Get good blades, too ... they should be part of the budget. A good saw with a bad blade or a dull blade will not give good cuts.

I bought a Craftsman 10" cabinet saw with Biesemeyer fence ... bought it new, a few years ago, for under $1,000. Upgraded the miter gauge, and I get fabulous results. You don't have to spend a zint to get good quality.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

rrrun said:


> Craigslist, for sure, for great bargains. Be patient, and you'll find a great saw. Use it before you buy it. Look under the hood.
> 
> Biesemeyer fence, for sure.
> 
> ...


Hello Henry;

What model Craftsman did you buy and did it come with the Biesmeyer fence? I agree with buying good blades and mitre guages. 

Don


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Don..

Several years back I picked up a Craftsman Hybrid (#22114). Maybe 6-8 years now. The saw has performed wonderfully for what it is. It'll do 2" red oak without blinking an eye and 2 1/2" hard maple with just a few blinks (slow and steady feed is the key) The saw is essentially rock solid. Fence is adjustable, but adjusting the blade to the miters takes a bit of work. Fortunately only need to do that once is a blue moon. Not necessarily known for really good tablesaws Sears nailed it with this lineup. After 6-8 years of use the only problem I have is that now the height adjusting wheels threads have pretty much wore out and that big red dust chute on the right needs to be kept taped shut. (fasteners failed, no biggie) Dust collection out of the box is acceptable but not great. Taping up alot of the openings helped considerably. The table sits sturdy on a vct over cement floor. The top took some time to set up, but has remained flat and true all this time. I"ve installed extensions on both sides. The fence itself allows for alot of customizing if you wish. Blade guard is nothing special and to be honest, I havn't had mine on the saw since about an hour and a half after assembly. The factory miter is cheesy but worked fair to midlin as I recall. I quickly went to a Incra 2000 and never looked back. Maintenance on the cast iron top has been minimal, takes to wax well. Factory blade is/was pretty much junk but whatcha expect *L*. Adjustment wheels both tilt and lift work well and lock out pretty positive but the the locking mechanisms have started to show signs of wear. Fence rails havn't budged since they were installed. Locking mechanism on the fence itself isn't too shabby. 

If you're looking for a decent saw under 1000 bucks, I'd highly suggest you give this one a look. Its bigger brother (#22124, then superseded by 22116) has a few more bells and whistles and everything Ive read indicates that for the money, its a pretty decent saw as well.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Don..
> 
> Several years back I picked up a Craftsman Hybrid (#22114). Maybe 6-8 years now. The saw has performed wonderfully for what it is. It'll do 2" red oak without blinking an eye and 2 1/2" hard maple with just a few blinks (slow and steady feed is the key) The saw is essentially rock solid. Fence is adjustable, but adjusting the blade to the miters takes a bit of work. Fortunately only need to do that once is a blue moon. Not necessarily known for really good tablesaws Sears nailed it with this lineup. After 6-8 years of use the only problem I have is that now the height adjusting wheels threads have pretty much wore out and that big red dust chute on the right needs to be kept taped shut. (fasteners failed, no biggie) Dust collection out of the box is acceptable but not great. Taping up alot of the openings helped considerably. The table sits sturdy on a vct over cement floor. The top took some time to set up, but has remained flat and true all this time. I"ve installed extensions on both sides. The fence itself allows for alot of customizing if you wish. Blade guard is nothing special and to be honest, I havn't had mine on the saw since about an hour and a half after assembly. The factory miter is cheesy but worked fair to midlin as I recall. I quickly went to a Incra 2000 and never looked back. Maintenance on the cast iron top has been minimal, takes to wax well. Factory blade is/was pretty much junk but whatcha expect *L*. Adjustment wheels both tilt and lift work well and lock out pretty positive but the the locking mechanisms have started to show signs of wear. Fence rails havn't budged since they were installed. Locking mechanism on the fence itself isn't too shabby.
> 
> If you're looking for a decent saw under 1000 bucks, I'd highly suggest you give this one a look. Its bigger brother (#22124, then superseded by 22116) has a few more bells and whistles and everything Ive read indicates that for the money, its a pretty decent saw as well.


Thanks Bill that is a great post filled with information that is usefull to me and others who might be looking for a table saw.

Don


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## Dr Neon (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi Don. Several years ago found a cast iron Craftsman (113.298750) on CL for $50.
I grabbed it. Cleaned it up, added a 2hp 120/240 motor (running on 240). Then I found a Vega fence made for Powermatic for $50. The best of all worlds. Cheap, accurate, and strong. Keep a sharp blade on it and you are good to go. Patience is the key, here. Money will buy you acceptable stuff. A good fence is one of the keys. Strong innards is another. Patience and keeping an eye out will do the rest.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

There is always the Grizzly contractor saw if that's what you are looking for. But honestly I'd grab a Grizzly G0771 hybrid before I bought anything else based on your stated budget and HP requirements. They are on sale right now and for $25 you get a better looking fence and cast iron wings in the hybrid over the contractor. 

Customer service and parts availability is what does it for me, I don't want to deal with a college student that wasn't there last month and won't be next month at the Sears stores around me. Besides the Craftsman is just a rebadged Rigid 4512 anyway and have all the alignment issues that go along with them or a Steel City (the 22116) which is now out of business so good luck if you do need parts.


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## old hippy (Sep 5, 2014)

My daughters bought me a Grizzly hybrid for my birthday and after using a Ryobi BT3000 for many years it's like driving a Cadilac compared to an AMC Pacer. If I would of known back then what I know now I would of spent the extra money back then.


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## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

I have the Craftsman 22124, and it did come with the Biesemeyer fence. Love that saw ... and, apparently, Sears doesn't sell it or an equivalent anymore. 

My previous saw was a Delta contractor's saw that was too light to handle 10' long 8/4 stock.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Just my 2 cents. If you are a CL watcher and can wait for a find, keep looking for Delta Rockwell 12/14. This is not for everyone. You need a lot of real estate and power. 

It is a cabinet saw that uses 12" or 14" blades. It weighs in at just over 950 pounds. It can use multiple sized blades, and dados by using replaceable arbor tips, that you can change the size or length of the Arbor Extension (1", 1-1/8", and 1-1/4"). A member here (Sawdust Don had/has (?) one of these, which he made a replacement tip for 10" blades (5/8" arbor). There is a how-to on making a 5/8" arbor extension here. My hat was off to him, not just for this saw, but that he got it down to his basement!!!

I love that on my panel saw, that I can use either 10" or 12" blades. Actually, of my last 2 choices before buying my panel saw, one hold-out choice was if I had found one of those...

Most would need a 3-phase converter to power it, cause it uses a 480 volt 3-phase 7.5 HP motor. Because of the above, even though it is a good saw, you can usually find a great deal on them. That is, when you can find one for sale.

If you find one at a used machinery dealer, they usually want between $1000 to $5000. Just as things go, while I was "in the market", none of thses were on CL. Since I bought my panel saw, then they started showing up again! I've seen these on CL go for between $150 to $500.


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## posthocfallacy (Jan 8, 2014)

Thanks Cherryville Chuck. I like the forums, but have some difficulty finding what I'm looking for. I'm sure that in time, I'll learn how to navigate better.

One of the things that I DO LIKE about the Delta contractors saw is the Unifence. It adjusts out for better control of a long piece when you are just starting the cut. I was able to adjust it true so that the blade doesn't drag on the front edge when the cut is complete. It was not perfectly parallel to the blade, but out on the far end by about .015 as measured by my dial indicator.

I have been looking at the ASKWOODMAN videos on youtube. The guys name is Little and he does some really interesting things. His videos are sometime drawn out and boring, meaning he goes into such detail that it is just too much. But, he has the Very Super Cool Tools website where he sells the t-square and the fence that he made with 2x3x3/16 rectangular tube for the guide, similar to what Biesmeyer uses, and a fence of 8020 aluminum extrusion that has t-slots on 4 sides. It could also adjust back like the Unifence for a long piece and could be made as long and frankly as stiff as you were willing to pay for. Well worth looking at.

I've also seen a guy on youtube that uses a piece of 3/4-16 threaded rod on the front of the saw, where the fence clamp has two nut halves that fit into the threaded rod when it is clamped. Talk about getting back to the same dimension for identical cuts, this is it! He also has a micro-adjust built in that has two detents for 1/32 spacing. Conceivably, one could put in four detents and go to 1/64 accuracy. I kind of like going to nothing smaller than 1/32 myself. If one wanted decimal units (I'm an engineer and don't use fractions much) a 3/4-10 threaded rod might work. Frankly, with everything going metric, it might be worth while getting a metric all-thread. Naw, I'm too old to switch now. Bury me in a 6 foot hole, not a 1.8m hole.

The t-square for the fence would be the same principle for both these. I'm entertaining building one of these myself, maybe a cross between the threaded rod and the 8020 extrusion. I'll post something if it becomes reality.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Dudley; welcome!
Hurry and get your 10 posts in, I'd love to see a link to the items you're referring to. 

(The 10 comment thing is an anti-spammer protection effort...nothing personal)


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Dudley.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Dudley,

Do check out the Laguna Fusion saw. Rockler has it on sale right now. I've had mine for several years and can tell you it is terrific. Precise, great Bes style fence, ample power for a 110v, American made motor that can later be upgraded to 220v. Riving knife and all the safety stuff. Very good dust collection and control, nice flat table. You can order it in a 36 inch model or 52 inch for about a hundred bucks more. You can get the 52 inch later if you get more space. I looked at all the other saws and mostly liked them, but with new tools, I think you pretty much get what you pay for, so I bit the bullet for a little higher priced TS. And Laguna service has been exemplary, as good as Bosch, and that's saying a lot. The basic saw without wings is easy for 2 old guys to move around, and it has a couple of wheels built in to make it easier to tilt and move if you need to. The fence is very good, solid and easily adjusted if necessary. Riving knife and blade guard are good.


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