# Push Blocks & Push Sticks



## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Hello All!
Safety is #1...Especially with fast moving, sharp objects that your hands get close to...

The Web is full of articles, plans, and photos of push sticks and push bars. From $0 to upwards of $100.

The plastic push stick that came with my Kobalt table saw is a good start, although you can't clamp to the fence if you take it out to use it - go figure...

I've seen You Tube vids, with people using 1 push stick, 2 push sticks, a push stick and a push block, singly or in pairs.








Push sticks made like hand saws,








push sticks made like wimmen,








Swans,








Rams,








Fish,








and fingers.
















Push sticks made in 'L' shapes,








and lazy-l shapes,








with curved,








straight, 








and non-existent handles.








Pushsticks with rubber shelf lining on the bottom.








And tapered rubber washers.









Push blocks made from 4x4 with a drawer handle on the top,








Vertical stock push blocks,








push blocks that fit over the fence,
















and push blocks/sticks that fit over saw blades,








and push blocks with two handles.









They are labeled "the best pushstick,"








"the best pushstick ever,"








and even "the ultimate pushstick."









And that is JUST the DIY push sticks and blocks...
Getting into all the commercial products for sale just makes my head (and wallet) hurt...

Now, I understand that some of it is hype, some of it is "what to do with scrap wood," and some of it is personalizing your hand made push stick.
But with safety SUCH an important concern with Power Tools, and being totally clueless, highly intimidated, and unable to get the cats to do the dangerous work for me, I am asking you kind, experienced, and knowledgeable folk to help me make a semi-informed choice on what kind of pushing device do I need, and what is/are the better choices?

I don't really want to have a push stick/push block collection... 
Thanks for your input!
~M


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

If a push stick keep your digits away from the blade and the piece being machine secure, then it's a good push stick.

Then it comes down to what you are comfortable with, what is comfortable in your hand.

Then, if you have scrap wood that'll be good enough to make it with, then that'll do nicely.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

picture 1. 

KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) because its heartbreaking to put all that work into something thats gonna get chewed up on a regular basis.
9mm ply, make a template, cut a half dozen at a time. Sorted.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you have to rip narrow pieces then you are going to chew up your push stick in somewhat short order so it is best to have it home made and to consider it expendable. My personal choice is the lazy I type made out of 1/4" ply. Quick and easy to make and cheap. I do like the idea of the 4x4 block with replaceable end to it though. I might have to give that one a try. I have a plastic one I bought for a few dollars that is about 3/4" wide so I use it for cuts between 1" and where I feel comfortable putting my hand between the blade and the fence. The main thing is to have them and use them. You can replace push sticks. You can't replace fingers.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

thanks again @Moz...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sunnybob said:


> picture 1.
> 
> KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) because its heartbreaking to put all that work into something that's gonna get chewed up on a regular basis.
> 9mm ply, make a template, cut a half dozen at a time. Sorted.


don't forget MISS.. (Make It Super Simple)...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

The problem with a lot of "push" sticks is that they only push. You want downward pressure on the wood to prevent it from riding up on the blade and causing kick back. And you want to keep your hands away from the blade as well.

I have the GRR-RIPPER model GR-200 and wouldn't be without it. A little expensive, but worth the money from a safety aspect. With some extra attachments you can rip pieces as narrow as 1/8 inch.

GRR-RIPPER® - MICROJIG - Work Smarter


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> The problem with a lot of "push" sticks is that they only push. You want downward pressure on the wood to prevent it from riding up on the blade and causing kick back. And you want to keep your hands away from the blade as well.
> 
> I have the GRR-RIPPER model GR-200 and wouldn't be without it. A little expensive, but worth the money from a safety aspect. With some extra attachments you can rip pieces as narrow as 1/8 inch.
> 
> GRR-RIPPER® - MICROJIG - Work Smarter


is cheating allowed???

.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Stick, I may have to adopt you...

~M


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> is cheating allowed???
> 
> .


That's not cheating, that's adapting :wink:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Moz said:


> Stick, I may have to adopt you...
> 
> ~M


you too!!!
I'm gonna have to start up rental fees...

and a rotation schedule...

.


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Nicely done! It's always handy, have some of them with different configuration available. Congrats!!!!
Sid.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Moz said:


> Stick, I may have to adopt you...
> 
> ~M


those handles...
get you sone elcheapo notched trowels w/ either wood or plastic handles..

there are a phenomenal array of styles and types for any need...

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=notched+trowels+for+tiling&t=ffsb&iax=1&ia=images


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Quote:
_*Originally Posted by Stick
you too!!!
I'm gonna have to start up rental fees...*_

If so! nobody can say that we are not getting what we are paying for. Thanks!!!
Sid.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ksidwy said:


> Quote:
> _*Originally Posted by Stick
> you too!!!
> I'm gonna have to start up rental fees...*_
> ...


some loot to help bankroll the trek for the *''GREAT RAID''* would be nice........


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Push sticks are a must have but expensive is not neccessary. I make all my own and feel safe using them. It really comes down to what is comfortable to you. The most important thing about them is that you use them.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Add one vote for the Grrrippers. I've tried dozens of push sticks and push blocks. The Gripper is the most versatile of any I've seen. I use a pair of them and won't be without them again. I still keep a couple of plain old bent-handle push sticks around that I use sometimes in conjunction with 1 Grrripper. The thing about the Grrripper is its adjustability to fit lots of different situations.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

i am also a GRR Ripper fan. Have two in fact, although I rarely use both. Key difference is you are able to apply forrward, down and pressure toward the fence with this great tool. 

I also use push sticks, and sometimes with a narrow piece, a small stick of whateverr I can find handy. Problem with applying a little rubber to a 2x4 is that shorrtly you will chew up the bottom of the block. Same thing happens without the rrubber , but without it, you cannot apply side pressure to keep the piece against the fence. which gives you better control of the piece. 

For crosscuts, I have a table saw sled, there are several types, some shop made, but I chose to purchase the Rockler sled (look up Rockler.com and search for table saw sled.) This sled has a precision fence that makes it very easy to cut any angle up to about 50 degrrees. Accurate to within a gnats posterior, and any sled keeps your fingers far from the blade. The thing is about accuracy, which is a very important thing for many projects. 

There are also jigs, many of which keep you safe while giving incredibly accurate cuts. And then there are sacrrifficial fences and backers you place behind the piece you are cross cutting. This helps eliminate the tearing out problem. There are an incredible number of varieties of jigs and backers and sacrificial fence variations. Many of which are very protective.

All of that is for the table saw. But don't forget the router. For mine, I keep very square chunks of leftover MDG. They serve as push blocks, heep the piece square to the blade and fence and back up the cut to stop tearout. When it gets chewed up, I slice off a chunk for a fresh edge. Voila, safe digits, clean cuts. 

Going vertical is quite anothher thing.. For that you need a jig that increases the height of your saw fence. This requires making an h shaped device of good ply that will slide on the real fence, while holding a veritical piece up against the blade. This can be either simple or very elaborate and you can add a toggle clamp to hold the piece securely in place. 

And then there is the Dado stack, usually used to make some sort of groove. Dado stacks often work best when they are "buried" in a sacrificial fence. This unfortunate term just means that you clamp a piece of MDF to the existing fence and push a portion of the dado stack up and into it. Your work piece's edge then slides up against the fence and the blade stack cuts through only a part of the edge to form a "rabbit." This is helpful when you are producing a lot of rabbited parts. Reproduction is a major aspect of rabbits.

I'm going to change devices in a couople hours so I can post some pictures and a longer and more complete piece for your benefit. For some reason, this tablet is showing subminiature type and my eyes are hurting.

And, you are right to be concerned about safety. I think the most important safety device is your brain. I for one, carefully plan every cut before setting up the cut, the push device or sled or jig, and think it through again before I hit that switch. You can find lots of books filled with pictures and plans for a huge number of jigs, push sticks and the like, foorr each major tool. They are used on Amazon, so you can build quite a library behind the blade on modern saws. It will help prevent kickbacks, which can seriously injure you. 

Finally, I have formed a no thumbs -in habit. I NEVER cut anything without tucking my thumbs in, I also cannot brring myself to place fingers closer than about 6 inches from the blade. I NEVER reach across the spinning blade to pick up a fresh cut piece. I do my best to keep the floor around the saw clear of anything that might trip me up, and I MEVER do anything with tthe blade until the saw is unplugged first. So I enjoy myself safely in the shop and still have 8 digits and two thumbs.

But seriously, get a GRR-ipper 100 at least, and make or buy a table saw sled. You will decrease the danger of injury tremendously for far less than the cost of aspirin in an emergency room. More to come...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> some loot to help bankroll the trek for the *''GREAT RAID''* would be nice........


So, you're saying that you have agreed to finance it? >>>


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Moz, the variety is endless. A simple 2 x 4 with a hardboard "hook" on the end is one of the simplest for a tablesaw. You can run it over the blade and not be worried about ruining it. It is sacrificial, so, when it gets chewed up just make a new one. It is wide enough to put downward pressure on a rip cut. Put some type of non-skid on the edge or side and you have a push block for your jointer or router table. 

The possibilities are endless as you can see from those photographs. They are easy to make, don't have to be pretty, just functional. Depending on what you want to do, and what you will be using them for, will dictate what works best.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

I've read both pages of this (very important) thread and haven't seen mention of featherboards... In my opinion (for what it is worth) push sticks are for "Y", but featherboards are critical for "X". The grain on wood will quite often cause a board to veer away from the fence on rip cuts - good featherboard setups can prevent this. Also, make certain that the blade's protrusion distance puts the "gullets" just slightly above the upper face of the workpiece. With the best push stick and intentions, an over-protrusion of a blade will still give one a memorable "manicure".

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Moz said:


> Stick, I may have to adopt you...
> 
> ~M


You would be sorry. > > > :wink:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Since you seem to be new to the hobby, or is it addiction, I thought you might find the following useful. It is about the 17 things I learned and did to accelerate my learning curve. The following has been posted before so those who have read it before may wish to skip it.

These are the 17+ things that really helped me get going with woodworking. Hope it helps you as much as they did me.

1) If you are using Firefox browser, get a free add on YouTube download helper app. Search for videos on all aspects of woodworking that interest you and collect them. I watch a video on the topic of whatever project, or phase of a project, on which I'm currently working. VERY helpful to see it done a few times before you try it yourself. 

I use a YouTube downloader that’s free using the tools menu/add ons. It puts a download button under the video on YouTube. Click the button, name the file (I always label it according to the tool or job it works on. For example, anything to do with routing, I label as "Router", which clusters all the similar videos together in Windows Explorer. All my videos go into a single folder. I sometimes watch woodworking video while on planes, which triggers some interesting conversations.

2) There are hundreds of used books on woodworking on Amazon. Order some on basic tools and woodworking. You'll need to learn to tune up saws and other tools, and books are how I learned to do these things. It wasn't until I tuned up my saws that good results began to happen. My saws cut exactly 90 and 45, or any angle I need now. Two books I really love are Bill Hylton’s “Woodworking with the Router,” and “The Joint Book” by Terrie Noll. The Noll Book is a really concise and heavily illustrated reference with great hints for making every variety of joints. There are lots of good table saw guides.

3) Make some first projects with MDF before using more expensive wood. Make the same project several times with improved skill, material and workmanship each time. Great learning method.

4) Consider making cabinets or stands for each of your power tools as first projects. My first cabinet was of MDF and my sander and all my sanding gear still sit on and in it. I can't tell you how much confidence I got from building space efficient shop stands and now, all the tools in my smallish shop are on casters and easily moved around for use and cleanup. Put doors on every cabinet to reduce wandering dust. BTW, if you add casters, use two non swivels on the back and two locking casters on the front--make sure the lock secures both the wheel and the swivel so your carts don't skip around in use. My shop made stands also take up far less floor space than the spread-legged ones that came with the tools, which makes it far easier to move tools around in a compact shop--which is necessary to clean out the insidious sawdust.

5) Many of the woodworking supply stores in the US (and I imagine overseas) have demos on weekends. Attend and get to know the people you meet there. They can turn you on to sources of wood and you can get some nice help and begin a friendship or two. Don’t forget to talk with the employees as well. At our local Rockler, several of the employees are serious and experienced woodworkers and always eager to help. I’ve also found some of the big box stores employ a few very experienced wood workers, carpenters, electricians and plumbers. You just have to start a brief conversation, if they seem knowledgeable, ask them about what they did before they worked at the store.

6) Among your first purchases should be some form of dust control. Many woods are proven carcinogens and can quickly damage your lungs. Dust collection information is on this site. I have a 4-inch system installed to collect sawdust, but I also have and recommend a dust mask with a small fan that pulls in pressurized air that not only keeps dust out, but also keeps my glasses from fogging. Got mine at Rockler and keep a couple of sets of rechargable AA batteries ready to use. For cutting just a piece or two, I keep surgical style disposable masks handy. I also built a box with 20x20 filter inside and a fan that pulls air through to remove fine airborne dust over time. You can even tape a filter to the back of a fan in a pinch. Don't take your mask off right after cutting or cleaning up because there is always dust floating around for awhile. If you start coughing, it means you need to pay very close attention to dust control and wearing a mask. It takes months to recover from a bout of working unprotected with MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) without a mask. 

7) Take your sweet time with projects, there's no rush and it is easy to have a project nearly complete, then make a careless, quick cut or other error that ruins all your good work. In most cases, it is best to fit pieces by putting them in place and marking rather than just measuring and cutting. Cut a bit over and shave it down (or use a good block plane) for an exact fit. A good block plane, nice and sharp, is a basic tool you'll use more often than you think.

8) Buy the very best table saw you can manage. It will quickly become the most used tool in your shop. A little debt could move you up a notch and help you produce better results and cut thicker wood. Get the best tools you can afford. Read the reviews and ask questions on the forum before you choose. To me, it is worth it to use credit if necessary to move up the quality scale. 

There are models called hybrid saws that have the mechanical works attached to the cabinet rather than the top, which is good. I recently replaced my old contractor saw with a Laguna Fusion saw. My shop is not wired for 220, so I was happy with the 110volt, 1 3/4 hp motor. Many forum members have been very happy with less expensive models, Grizzly for example, but I prefer the Laguna for its amazingly flat table and extensions and its fit and finish (and reasonable price). Learn to set up and tune up your saws and tools (books and videos show you how) because you can’t make anything great if your tools are even slightly off.

The best safety device is paying very close attention to what you’re doing with a saw, but a close second is a MicroJig Gripper, which lets you control wood on the saw while keeping your fingers safely away from the blade. There is a fancy and a simpler model, either of which is good.

9) If you can, get an electrician to add a 220 outlet or two to your shop. If you set up in the garage, you may be able to use the electrical outlet for the dryer. There are many tools that require 220 volts to work best, and many used 220 v tools are available at good prices--if you feel comfortable buying used. Another tool source is to visit estate sales. Every once in awhile, you find tools no one else in the family desires or knows the value of, so you can get them cheap.

If you don't have a router yet, I have come to like the Triton TRA001, which is perfect for table use, particularly since you can adjust height quite precisely from the above the table with its built in lift. That feature really saves my knees. However, it is just too heavy for this old guy to control freehand. I really like the Bosch 1617 EVSPK for hand held use. There is a newer model that has a light and switch on the handle that costs more. Both come in a kit with fixed and plunge base. It has many accessories available that are very well made. Others like different brands, but Mike recently checked in on the topic and compared PorterCable and I thought the Bosch came out a bit ahead. I prefer the raising and lowering mechanism on the Bosch with its precise micro adjustment knob. The Bosch fixed base can be used as a lift in a table. The books on routers and other topics are really useful for understanding some of the arcane woodworking terms associated with this must have tool..

10) When it comes to router bits, try to stick to the half inch shafts with carbide cutting tips. These are astonishingly sharp. Bosch and Freud are easily available at HD and Lowes, but there are lots of other excellent brands including the well liked Whiteside and Sommerfield bits. Be careful of those ultra sharp tips, which are fragile. I'd suggest storing them in one of those foam lined cases you can get pretty cheap from Harbor Freight, loosely packed so they don't click together. A few of the cheap bits don’t have carbide tips. Spiral bits are sometimes used to cut grooves. Carbide spiral bits are both expensive and fragile and it takes very little abuse to ruin them. Many use high speed steel bits for that purpose.

I buy bits as I need them and don't much care for the kits. However, someone recently suggested getting a kit to start out with, then gradually replacing only the bits you actually use with top grade bits. This makes some sense to me, but stick to the half inch shafts if you can manage it--most kits I’ve seen have 1/4 inch shafts. I would avoid huge sets with odd bits you are unlikely ever to use. A few standard bits most of us have are the round over bits. You can get them in different sizes, but mostly you’re likely to use the quarter, half and ¾ sizes. Another bit that is very useful for cabinetry is the half inch rabbiting bit with a bearing. Some come with a changable bearing that allows you to change the size of the rabbit. Doing fancier stuff makes those cash register numbers spin because those door bit sets are pricey! 

One more thing about using bits, don’t try to take off too much wood in one pass. Make several passes taking a little more wood with each pass. Pay attention to the grain of the wood (that is covered in most books on routing) with a final pass just shaving and making for a very smooth finish. My personal rule is to cut no more than 1/8 th of an inch per pass. The larger the bit, the slower you should set the speed control. 

11) The most useful item I own for my saws is a Wixey digital angle gauge, which allows me to set up all my saws to exact angles (eg: 90 degrees to the table). It wasn't until I started being meticulous about this that my projects started working out right. These are about $30 on Amazon. I also have Rockler's table saw crosscut sled, picture attached, which is a great tool that allows great precision, safety, convenience and the ability to cut any angle with ease. I keep mine on a shelf right next to the saw because I use it so often. 

I have a Bosch 10 inch compound sliding miter saw that I also love, but use it mainly for cross cutting long pieces, but its ability to cut at precise angles is wonderful. 

12) Pocket Hole jig and construction. Although there are many ways to make cabinets and face frames, I have found that pocket hole screws have really made making them easier. Just remember, coarse threads for soft woods, fine thread for hard woods, and I find the square head easier to drive correctly than the Phillips type. My jig is mounted on a chunk of plywood that I can clamp down. The thing makes a lot of sawdust so dust collection is a good idea. I also find that with careful, exact 90 degree end cuts to the wood, the pocket hole approach produces absolutely square cabinets and face frames. You’ll need a couple of face clamps and a Kreg right angle clamp if you use pocket hole joinery. There are many helpful videos on this jig.

13) Make a table saw sled (lots of YouTube videos on how to) for perfect 90 degree cuts on your table saw. I had a little more money than time, so I bought the sled Rockler makes that has a swinging fence and a very precise angle scale. I love that thing and set up a special shelf right next to my table saw to store it and keep it flat. Cross cuts on the sled are wonderfully exact and it prevents most tear out, the ragged or splintered area at the end of a cut. The sled is also a much safer way to cut short pieces as well. You set the sled to a precise 90 or 45 angle using a drafting square. 

Most saws come with a miter gauge, but I prefer one of the precision gauges. I have an Osborne gauge I really like, but many here like Incra’s gauge. Precision is important with gauges.

You will read a LOT about jigs here and in your books and videos. Jigs, accurate T squares, a good straightedge are all incredibly useful for producing good work. The more I venture into really good hard wood construction, the more I appreciate how jigs produce accurate results without wasting expensive wood through mis-cuts.

14) I had a lot of problems with tear out at first, but most of that stopped when I started using a sacrificial backup block to push the last bit of a piece through the router. I often use square pieces of MDF (medium density fiberboard) because it is cheap and stays flat. When it gets torn up, I just cut off a chunk and use what’s left. Really helps! You can do the same with any piece by putting a backer board behind where the cut goes--you cut through the piece first, the backer last. You may also want to use feather boards to hold boards in correct alignment to the fence and blade or bit.

Zero Clearance Inserts for the table saw: On the table saw, buy or make blank inserts to make zero clearance inserts (see YouTube for how to do it), this really helps make great, tear-out free cuts. I also found that I wanted to push that last quarter inch through the bit too fast, now I feed at a steady pace all through the cut. 

15) Clamps: The joke is you can never have too many clamps. The ones I use most are about $3 each at Harbor Freight, about 9 inch F clamps (they look like an F). I have 18 of them at a couple of bucks each. The same source has longer versions up to 24 inches and I keep 4 to 6 of the 18 and 24 inch models. I have four sets of two of 24 to 60 inch (Jet) parallel clamps for making really square cabinets and other items where holding things square for glue up is important. The better the quality of bar clamps, the thicker and stronger the bar will be. I’ve all but given up on plastic clamps, but have a few that look like scissors for lightly holding things together or down. Depending on what you’re making, a few wooden hand screw clamps could be useful, including holding small parts for safer routing. I recently added a couple of special steel C clamps that have a 12 inch open throat. Very handy item! 

16) Hand planes and hand tools: Learning to use these is something of an art, as is proper sharpening and setting of their blades. There are lots of woodworkers who really love working with hand tools, most will suggest you buy used and clean and tune them up--which is actually quite fun. Chisels are important particularly if you are making furniture. Sharpening chisels is a basic skill involving many ultra fine grits of sandpaper, ultra flat surfaces, maybe diamond grit sharpening stones—arcane stuff, but anything less than a razor sharp chisel is pretty useless. Don’t scrimp on chisels, cheap ones get dull fast. Look up sharpening methods on YouTube, it takes patience but not much money to work sharp. I recently bought a diamond sharpening device with diamond dust imbedded in a nickel steel plate. It has small cut out ovals so the metal grit doesn't clog the diamond surface. Use these sparingly and use one of the specialty diamond sharpening lubricants with it. I use this for quick sharpening touch ups, just 4-5 strokes will do. It’s a little easier to use than the sand paper method, which I save for major sharpening tasks.

17) If you have a dedicated shop space, take the time and trouble to insulate it. You will enjoy working in it much more if you're not roasting or freezing. I recently installed a middle sized window AC unit through a shop shed wall for relief from our desert summer and it is now even more of a pleasure to be out there. Insulation also holds in heat during winter. A couple of heaters bring the temp up, but just one keeps it comfortable after that. Cold fingers are clumsy, not good around spinning blades!

Finally, Stick suggests that you use the Forum’s archives when you have questions. There is a wealth of answers to any questions you might have. He also cautions about using one word search terms, which can return massive amounts of information. Here’s the link: https://archive.org/

Woodworking is not necessarily a cheap hobby. Wood can be costly, so are decent tools, And there's hardware, stuff for jigs, dust collection and on and on as you get going. My good wood supplier is 60 miles away, so I often work in decent local pine and plywood with as many layers as I can find. I found some decent Maple faced plywood at HD. Before long you will hear how superior Baltic Birch is to the best of HD, but you have to ferret out a decent source. Chinese made birch ply is generally no match for the real stuff, which, when you cut it shows no voids inside. 

This has run pretty long, but I think the information is helpful for someone new to the hobby. The suggestions represent a LOT of trial and error. And yes, you can spend a lot getting set up, but your spouse will like you being around home, but not under foot. 

Below are pictures, first is the Rockler sled, second is a back view of my supplemental, high fence, third is the front view, last is me using the Rockler sled. Notice hands are pretty far from the blade. The Rockler unit also comes with a cutoff fence so the cut piece is supported after the cut. I often forget to put it in place.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Moz, you need different push sticks for different tools. Microjig GRRippers are great for many jobs on the router table and table saw. The black handled one shown is set up with a tailpiece for pushing wood, the yellow handled one isn't. This way I can tell them apart at a glance. The Router Workshop handle was made from 1/2" white HDPE and features a 1/2" 14º dovetail on the bottom. I copied this onto 3/4" BB plywood and cut out a much more comfortable handle. To make the block set up a 1/2" dovetail bit to a height of 3/8" in your router table and center it in a piece of 2x4". Two saw cuts make the notch and you can enhance the gripping power by adding some self adhesive sand paper. A scrap of 1x4" with a 1/2" hole in it and a shaker peg makes a good push stick for many router table jobs. Once all 4 sides have been used just replace the scrap as needed.

Bob and Rick donated the Router Workshop push stick plan to the forums. This is about as good as it gets for most router table jobs. The saw handle and two dovetail slots on the bottom are easy to make and it creates a pocket to push and keep downward pressure on your material. I encourage all members to download this plan and build it.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

All great reminders that "SAFETY" is the watch word.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> 17) If you have a dedicated shop space, take the time and trouble to insulate it. You will enjoy working in it much more if you're not roasting or freezing..


Tom, Did you sent this to Rick?


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

If NOTHING else, you wonderful people have done an amazing job of taking a lot of the intimidation factor out of woodworking.
I'm still cautious, but no longer scared to death...MANY years ago my ex swore we would never have a computer. He was firmly convinced that they could "think," and would kill you in your sleep if you weren't careful...In the 25 years since then, I married a computer programmer, got two degrees in computers, and had my own websites for a few years...LOL! Change is good.
I'm not as weird as the ex, but the thought of getting closer than 12" to a table router was causing me anxiety. We won't get into the 3 foot push stick I was contemplating for the table saw....LOL!

The Crosscut Sled for the table saw is still problematic in my head.
Almost every video and article on table saws say how you almost NEED one to do anything besides rip plywood. But in the same breath everyone swears how you need it to be uber accurate (to a gnat's ass - LOVE that!), in the next breath, you are supposed to BUILD the damn thing, first off.
Ozer asked, "If they are so vital to doing good work, why are the miter slots so unstandardized that you have to custom build it? Why can't you just buy one?"
I found the Rocker sled, which to date, is the ONLY pre-fab crosscut sled I have found. But the dogma says you need to utilize both miter slots for the most accuracy, and the Rockler only uses one (which I assume is to make it functional with the router table). Rockler built my router table, which is a pretty awesome little thing, so I am sure that a crosscut sled from them would also be pretty awesome. But that "missing" rail niggles me in the back of my brain...
Then there is the issue of the rails themselves...If it is SO important to be accurate, why are the rails wood? I've found some steel rails (by Rockler, I believe), but they have to use nylon washers for an accurate fit, as they are built to accommodate a varying width of channels. People criticize those washers as quickly wearing out as they are shaved by the sled usage...*sigh. I can't see spending the $$$ to make purpleheart rails...
ALSO, as a clueless noob, 1st time with power tools, I'm not going to be doing anything too complex for awhile, regardless my dreams and fantasies of plans and projects from Pinterest...I ONLY need to make beehive boxes. Nice, standard lengths of 1x12, sides only, with a simple rabbet along two parallel sides, finger (box) joint sides, a dado'd or gouged edge as an entrance (a drilled hole at the very least), cut or cleated handholds...

I've seen a few woodworking videos where the miter gauge had a board screwed onto it, and was told that this sufficed as a crosscut sled for small projects...
At this stage of my barely-existent skill set, with my somewhat simple needs (Those finger joints will be my bane until I make enough sawdust trying various things to find what works), can I reasonably get away with just a fence on the Miter Gauge?
*I have a compound miter saw that I bought several years ago to cut all the 4" baseboard when we remodeled our house, so any possible misalignment of the Miter Gauge becomes a somewhat moot point except as may affect crosscuts.

The PDC approach is all too tempting to fall back on, but with SO many options and choices with something as 'simple' as push sticks and push blocks, it is an even worse quandry as to just how far to fall into the woodworking hole, as the technology continuously improves (usually at a somewhat hefty price tag) to make woodworking "better," as a hobby. 
take that Grr-ripper. An $80 piece of plastic and rubber to push wood. Compared to a stick. And at it's MOST extreme basic, some of those push sticks look like I could cut a branch off a tree and get the same effect...I SO appreciate DesertRatTom helping to clarify a MAJOR consideration:


DesertRatTom said:


> Key difference is you are able to apply forrward, down and pressure toward the fence with this great tool.


That, along with the honest, unsolicited testimonials from several of you here in the Forums has convinced me that yes, this IS one of those additional expenditures this hobby doesn't require, but strongly recommends for optimum enjoyment and safety. 
I will probably try to make one of Stick's "cheaters," to compare. And the block with the drawer handle, just for poops and grins.
But I kinda wanna try the white and blue one with the tapered rubber washers on the bottom. Just because it is so nifty looking...

"Never stop learning." Good words to live by, but to learn something new that requires some skill to master, or even naively use safely, can be such a tsunami of information overload. Gah. 
We need a "collective hive mind" like Forums such as RouterForums, just to help provide the experience needed to help newbies "cut through the chatter and confusion" to learn the vital basics and make the best decisions from all the choices and options we are bombarded with...

Thank you. It looks like I will have something of a Push gadget collection, but I am sure they will make up a most effective and SAFE collection, which IS the purpose of using the things in the first place...

Hugs to all for your input and help!
~M


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Moz, the sled for the table saw is easy to make and don't require a lot of material. Go to Garage works on YouTube and look for his sled. Easy to make, very functional and accurate. It is similar to mine I went for years without one but never again. Makes crosscut so to easy.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> You would be sorry. > > > :wink:


...but Stick could get...FREE HONEY!:surprise::wink:


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> Moz, the sled for the table saw is easy to make and don't require a lot of material. Go to Garage works on YouTube and look for his sled...


I looked, but could not find it. What is his channel named, please?
~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Is this old thread helpful, Moz?
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/12908-video-shop-built-mitering-crosscut-sled.html


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Moz, I sorry it is garagewoodworks.com


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Dan, that is a sled that looks wonderful, but is far beyond my humble abilities at the present.
That is part of the problem, some of these beautiful sleds are very complex for beginners with a new table saw...
@Shop guy, thx, will try again!
~M


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> So, you're saying that you have agreed to finance it? >>>


you are not excluding Dutch no mater what...
go beg, borrow or steal yur own some place else...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> You would be sorry. > > > :wink:


check that...
I'd make sure of it by bringing Bill and Dan's behavioral idiosyncrasies/disciplines/discrepancies to the venue...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

OPG3 said:


> I've read both pages of this (very important) thread and haven't seen mention of featherboards... I
> 
> Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


new thread???


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Yeah Otis. Show us what ya got.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> You would be sorry. > > > :wink:


BTW...
did Bill and/or Dan rat me out again???


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

@Moz...

Get a gripper and be done with it. Just getting started, it'll cover just about all the bases you'll encounter, and provide you with the additional safety you'll need. Well thought out, quality materials and construction and versatile as hell. Yep, it'll cost ya, but it is a sound investment on many levels. Until you start ripping longer boards, one Gripper should do you well enough. All that and I don't even own one!!! I think its that good of an investment that I don't hesitate suggesting it to folks getting started. I don't know that you need a half dozen different push sticks cluttering up the shop, hell, I've used the same push stick for the last 9 years and finally had to replace it a month ago. Figured I'd give a Kreg a try. 

Don't let all the BS and hype confuse ya. Sometimes the KISS/MISS approach is fine, sometimes not so much. Sometimes a wall hanger of a sled is the ticket, other times a basic sled will do the job just as well and with alot less effort. I like that you do your homework and ask questions. you're gonna do just fine..

BTW...I checked out Ozer's video's.... yep, he's a nut!!


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Moz:
The Crosscut Sled doesn't have to be pretty or elaborate, it just has to work.
I use this one: it was good enough for Norm, so it's good enough for me (excuse the pictures, they're from my phone in dim light)


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> check that...
> I'd make sure of it by bringing Bill and Dan's behavioral idiosyncrasies/disciplines/discrepancies to the venue...


You are forgetting, dear Stick, I have my own...Don't even need to borrow from others...

Can I be the "moll" for the heist? The one who doesn't really do much but stand around looking good?:x

Fingerboards are a concern, but at least so far, seemingly straightforward...angled thingys that look like a fancy tangle comb, with a mounting hole...all the plans on "teh 'Net," are pretty much the same. No weird shapes, angles, or tons of variations.

My router table came with a couple, which the gentleman who sold it to me said he didn't use very much...Brave man, but then again, he is now sailing around the world. Cojones grande!
~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> those handles...
> get you sone elcheapo notched trowels w/ either wood or plastic handles..
> 
> there are a phenomenal array of styles and types for any need...


Okay, stupid question of the evening...
How am i supposed to get them off of the metal trowels? And then how to attach them to my push blocks?

I like the drawer handle, just because the hard work is done, I just use a couple screws to attach it...

~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> Moz:
> The Crosscut Sled doesn't have to be pretty or elaborate, it just has to work.
> I use this one: it was good enough for Norm, so it's good enough for me (excuse the pictures, they're from my phone in dim light)


That's where my head kinda implodes - Supposedly, you need it to be accurate, which depends most on the runners.

Did you know there are 213 different threads here on RF JUST about sleds??? I will be chewing through this conundrum for awhile, it appears...
Hand made runners are across the gamut of materials - Just here on RF, I've seen all kinds of discussions, using everything from cutting boards, to mdf, to plywood, to Incra.

Wood wears, the runners get sloppy, there goes your accuracy...
The sled part doesn't bother me.
Those damn runners, tho...I like the idea of plywood, just because supposedly those layers of grain should help maintain...whatever it is to help them not get sloppy too quickly...*sigh...

Then we get into the single runner/dual runner situation...bad enough my runners may get sloppy quickly because they are wood, now, I'm supposed to abandon one of them for a single runner configuration? 
Won't that just increase my chances for crap crosscuts???

I'm most likely overthinking this and stressing over essentially nothing. But I figure if it wasn't that important, there wouldn't be such an emphasis on getting your sled runners to fit and align 'just so...'

~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Shop guy said:


> Moz, I sorry it is garagewoodworks.com


Found it! Thank you!!!

But he doesn't say what he uses to make his runners... :frown:
Those are the bugaboo that I am trying to wrap my head around.
~M


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Hi Moz. First, thanks for this thread. That's an impressive array of push blocks that you assembled!

On the subject of runners, I've had success using oak but any hardwood should do, but you do need to consider grain. I've recently switched over to using Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) strips, the same stuff they make cutting boards out of. It's very stable, and impervious to moisture fluctuation, slides well in the T track, and machines beautifully. I have found that cutting a dado in the jig for the runner keeps the jig square with your saw blade as long as your blade is properly aligned.

My best advice is to study all of the examples that you can find of whatever project you have in mind, pick the features that appeal to you, then go ahead and design and make one! If it doesn't work the way you need it to, you can either build a better one learning from your mistakes, or adapt the design to correct for any oversights. Most of all, have fun!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You may be over worrying the runner wear aspect, Moz. The wear area is so large ...3/8" x 24' x 2 ...that for any discernible slop to make itself known will take a _very_ long time. If you use a really hard wood, or UHMW for the runners you'll probably be in an Old Folks Home before it matters.
Keep the mitre slots waxed to reduce friction.
the only real accuracy issue/adjustment with the sled happens when you adjust the infeed end of the sled's fence to a 90deg. angle with the slot you create when you raise the blade up through the sled.
you screw one end down, adjust the angle, then temporarily screw the other end. Check for accuracy using the 5 cut method, then permanently fasten it it when it's correct.

The big thing to design into the fence part is *the housing over the blade path at the fence*. You want to ensure that under no circumstances can the blade come up high enough to slice your hand if you have it in that position.
One additional technique is to make the top surface in that area very uncomfortable; very course sandpaper glued there is one way.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

I believe someone here on RF made a sled with a huge red block on the back to help with the safety issue. I thought it a good idea.
Thank you for the reassurance that the runners do not wear as quickly as some articles led me to believe.

My table saw is a Kobalt contractors on wheels:







so I won't be needing a humongous sled, especially for my hives. 1x12's will be my main victims, with some 4' half sheets of plywood, and the rare full sheet being abused...
But I still feel I need a 'full' size (2 runner) sled.

Stick has been pretty positive towards UHMW.
Amazon has this:
UHMW Strip 3/4" X 3/8" X 48" By Peachtree Woodworking - PW1121 - Woodworking Project Kits - Amazon.com 
at a price I can afford (that damn Grr-ripper is a big bite in my woodworking allowance from Ozer!)
I think 2' runners would be long enough for my needs, yes?

I'm not afraid of making mistakes, I've been an artist too long, and adhere to the japanese philosophy that if a work is too perfect, you need to deliberately add a mistake. Which I seldom have to do... 
But there is a difference between making mistakes while trying to do your best, and starting off from "half fast." That just leads to compound mistakes. Like ripping a piece when your fence is not parallel to the blade, or the sled is not an accurate 90 degrees.
I watched one YT vid, where by the time the guy cut the 4th side, it was more a parallelogram than a rectangle...

If nothing else, you folks being so patient as I try to unwind my obsessive overconcerns is priceless.
You all are comfortable and experienced, both with your successes and your mistakes. It helps SO much!
~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Maybe delay the Grr-ripper for awhile? Some of the pushsticks you posted were perfectly functional and safe.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Ratbob said:


> Hi Moz. First, thanks for this thread. That's an impressive array of push blocks that you assembled!


 If I'm going to test your patience with my cluelessness, I figure I can at least entertain you a bit along the way.

Just remember, this is the confusion I am facing, as I try to learn almost everything from the ground up. Hammers are easy. Avoid putting your fingers under the working end...Power tools start off easy - Keep all body parts and clothing away from all moving parts, especially those with sharp scary edges. 
It then goes all to hell as you get into sleds, and jigs, and alignments...I'm now looking at dial indicators to make a jig to ensure that my fences are parallel to miter tracks/blades, and that my saw blade will likewise be parallel. Some reviews of the Kobalt claim the blade is crooked...Hammers are so much simpler...but they build REALLY crude and crappy hives. My girls will make a mess out of any hive too off in dimensions. They will either spit propolis over everything to glue it together, or build honeycomb everywhere they shouldn't, making maintenance a PITA, as they get upset when you destroy what they work so hard to build...:surprise:



Ratbob said:


> ...I've recently switched over to using Ultra High Molecular Weight (UHMW) strips, the same stuff they make cutting boards out of. It's very stable, and impervious to moisture fluctuation, slides well in the T track, and machines beautifully. I have found that cutting a dado in the jig for the runner keeps the jig square with your saw blade as long as your blade is properly aligned.


Yes, I think UHMW will be my best bet to maintain any sense of sanity and stop stressing over it. IF I wear those out, I will make big puppydog eyes at Ozer to buy me steel Incra bars. That should take one hell of a lot of beehives, first...

But, please clarify "cutting a dado in the jig for the runner." I thought the runner is ever so slightly below the table, shimmed up with pennies, nuts, etc. before you attach the sled. 
Won't a dado make the runner too shallow for the track?



Ratbob said:


> My best advice is to study all of the examples that you can find of whatever project you have in mind, pick the features that appeal to you, then go ahead and design and make one!


 If I did that, my crosscut sled would probably take me a year to build, but look like the Cadillac of sleds...I fell in love with TwoSkies57's sled, but it is WAAAyyy out of my skill set and budget. 



Ratbob said:


> If it doesn't work the way you need it to, you can either build a better one learning from your mistakes, or adapt the design to correct for any oversights. Most of all, have fun!


Old Russian saying: "What are your daughters doing?" "Oh, laughing and sewing!" "What is your wife doing?" "Oh, crying and stitch cutting." I am already having fun, just in the learning before I plug my toys in. I have a decent collection of wood to practice with and make sawdust as I learn and get comfortable before I start using "new wood" to build hives. I have until about the first of April to get my act together. But I'm hoping to keep mistakes to a minimum by understanding what I am doing, and why I should be doing it that way, or with that tool/accessory/material.

I know it doesn't show it yet, but I really HAVE learned SO MUCH in the last couple of weeks. And knowledge does wonders to overcome fear.
~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Maybe delay the Grr-ripper for awhile? Some of the pushsticks you posted were perfectly functional and safe.


Agreed. I want to build the block one with the drawer handle, and the one with the cool rubber washer feet. I like the one with the innertube wrapped around it, but am leery of using the staple gun to attach it...

That was one of the reasons i posted that collection, to see if any were necessarily better than the others (or worse - a couple looked almost dangerous to use to me, but that's because I can't wear a suit of armor to use them!). I now have plans to try to craft my own grr-ripper, as well as oh-so-valuable feedback and guidance on how much woodworking hype is or isn't worth considering.

I know it takes practice and learning to be a woodworker, but it shouldn't be brain surgery or rocket science. You wouldn't know it to come into it totally new, tho!

~M


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Moz said:


> Okay, stupid question of the evening...
> How am i supposed to get them off of the metal trowels? And then how to attach them to my push blocks?
> 
> I like the drawer handle, just because the hard work is done, I just use a couple screws to attach it...
> ...


step one... pick a trowel that you can remove the handle from..
step two... drill out the spot welds...
step three ... use your multimaster...
step four... use screws or adhesive to install...


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Moz said:


> ...please clarify "cutting a dado in the jig for the runner." I thought the runner is ever so slightly below the table, shimmed up with pennies, nuts, etc. before you attach the sled.
> Won't a dado make the runner too shallow for the track?...


It makes assembly a lot easier if you attach the runner inset into a 1/8" dado on the bottom of the jig or sled. It eliminates alignment issues providing your fence and blade were true when you cut the dado. You are correct, you don't want the runner to ride along the bottom of the track. By using a dado you don't need to use pennies to hold the runner up out of the track when attaching it to the jig. Just drop the runner into the dado and attach it to the sled. I dimension the runner to leave 1/16" space above the bottom of the track.

runner height = 1/8" + track depth - 1/16"

The white rectangle is the runner, you can't see it from this angle but there is a 1/16" gap under the runner.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

*Runners for sled*

Moz, the runners are made from hardwood ripped to size. I use oak on mine. I don't remember if he used oak or maple on his. They are not hard to make. Once they are fitted to the miter slot I put them in the saw then lay the base of the sled on top of them and take a pin nailer and tack them in place. Then I carefully remove that from the saw and screw them down from the bottom side. Much easier than how he does it. The most critical part is positioning the pushing fence. Just watch how he does it or how someone else does it so it is square to the saw blade. Any questions just ask. I'll see if I have a picture I can post for you.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Moz, I glue strips of coarse sand paper to the bottom of my push blocks. Works for me. Keep in mind I don't buy anything I can make. Saves a lot of money that way. There is alway one more cool new idea or gizmo to suck your dollars away. Most times a little scrap and spare time one can make a useable alternative and have the satisfaction of doing so.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

*Runners for sled*

Moz, the runners are made from hardwood ripped to size. I use oak on mine. I don't remember if he used oak or maple on his. They are not hard to make. Once they are fitted to the miter slot I put them in the saw then lay the base of the sled on top of them and take a pin nailer and tack them in place. Then I carefully remove that from the saw and screw them down from the bottom side. Much easier than how he does it. The most critical part is positioning the pushing fence. Just watch how he does it or how someone else does it so it is square to the saw blade. Any questions just ask. I'll see if I have a picture I can post for you.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Moz said:


> If I did that, my crosscut sled would probably take me a year to build, but look like the Cadillac of sleds...I fell in love with TwoSkies57's sled, but it is WAAAyyy out of my skill set and budget.


Hey Moz, thanks for the kind words about my sled. But here are the facts behind it. Not so much a Cadillac as it is a TANK. Very heavy. While it is capable of just about anything you could possibly ask of a sled, a basic well built sled is without question an excellent choice. I wanted to "design" a cool sled that was as functional as it was good looking and it was a exercise in execution (planning, cutting, fitment etc.). You can learn a great deal when building jigs/fixtures that can ultimately be applied to your projects...

b.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Ah, got it. Thank you. I think I've finally got a handle on runners for the sled. Yay!

I remember when Cadillac's WERE 'tanks.' Big, heavy, classy, ones, 'tho... 
I think I must have looked at a hundred different crosscut sled ideas now. From the "Cadillac Tank," to what looked like a spare chunk of MDF bolted to a miter gauge, and all kinds of configurations in between.

The 5-cut adjustment test is invaluable.
You guys and these Forums are priceless.

Well, I've gotten safety equipment, push sticks, and sleds straight in my head.
Box joints are getting clearer, and I'm now reading router lessons (thanks Stick!).
Bit by bit, I'm getting closer to the Danger Zone of turning the scary monster thingy on...uh oh!
~M


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Shop guy said:


> Moz, I glue strips of coarse sand paper to the bottom of my push blocks. Works for me. Keep in mind I don't buy anything I can make. Saves a lot of money that way. There is alway one more cool new idea or gizmo to suck your dollars away. Most times a little scrap and spare time one can make a useable alternative and have the satisfaction of doing so.


It's been said that "fishing lures aren't made to catch fish, they're made to catch fishermen". The same thing is true about woodworking tools and jigs.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Moz, regarding the UHMW strips for the miter slot: I tried that and had to take the strip off. If you extend the runners out past the front and/or rear edges to gain cutting width on the saw the UHMW will bend. UHMW has to be supported to work. The most you could extend the runners would be about 2-3". Hardwood works the best, lasts a surprisingly long time, and costs virtually nothing to make even if you fail a few times making them (as in too tight/loose or too high).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> It's been said that "fishing lures aren't made to catch fish, they're made to catch fishermen". The same thing is true about woodworking tools and jigs.


if that ain't hitting the nail on the head there never was...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Hi Moz - I am kind of in the same boat as you are. I had no experience with woodworking when I was young. My dad was incredibly unhandy at things. So I am learning as I am going. One thing I can guarantee you is that you will make mistakes. That is part of the learning process. One thing I am finding is that figuring out how to fix my mistakes is actually quite enjoyable. Also, trying to learn to take my time has been hard. I don't know why I sometimes think I have to finish things quickly. I am retired and it isn't like I have to be anywhere. lol

So, my next project is to figure out how to get my band saw to cut correctly. When my dad dies, I got a small inheritance and bought a bunch of tools. I am still learning the basics of how to use some of them. Band saw is the last on the list.

Remember to enjoy yourself !

Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good to know on the UHMW bending thing, Charles! Thanks for that.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> It's been said that "fishing lures aren't made to catch fish, they're made to catch fishermen". The same thing is true about woodworking tools and jigs.


Goes for Cat Food flavors. "Tuscany Tuna in a savory sauce with fresh garden greens..." All 4 cats turned their noses up and in effect told me, "YOU eat it..."
:grin:
~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Moz, regarding the UHMW strips for the miter slot: I tried that and had to take the strip off. If you extend the runners out past the front and/or rear edges to gain cutting width on the saw the UHMW will bend. UHMW has to be supported to work. The most you could extend the runners would be about 2-3". Hardwood works the best, lasts a surprisingly long time, and costs virtually nothing to make even if you fail a few times making them (as in too tight/loose or too high).


NUUUUUuuuuu!!!!:crying:
I got up this morning, THRILLED to have found a solution, and now you've taken my safety blankey away from me!
I thought the plastic would solve my confusion and give me a 'stable,' 'long-lasting,' runner...

Okay. Back to the starting line, false start...
So. Here I am, wandering down the lumber aisle of my Orange Box store...past the cheap pine, past the plywood, past the poplar. Ooh, oak, walnut, cherry. Sold by the foot...All lengths, various widths, assorted grain patterns...

HELP! What should I get???
How long? How wide? Which wood?

The YouTube 'experts,' said to get "straight" runners, I need to custom cut them from the center of a 12" plank, and call myself lucky if I can get six 3/4" runners out of the center, because if the grain isn't aligned straight, the runners will warp and stick...

~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I need to custom cut them from the center of a 12" plank"


Yikes!!! Nonononono!!!!!!!!! 
Just grab a piece of 3/4" Oak or Maple flooring from a flooring contractor or flooring shop. You're way overthinking this, Moz.
It's just a crosscut sled, not a Strad. Any hardwood offcuts will do, preferably straight. The earlier suggestion re dadoing the base of the sled will take care of the warpage concern, and if it does warp just replace it. 
But cutting into a 12"(*shock!*) plank is sacrilege... :crying:


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

@Moz - Don't give up on UHMW quite yet. Chuck's perfectly valid warning is for those applications where you want your runner to extend beyond the end of your jig/sled. Typically this is only needed when you are building a fixture to support pieces larger than the front-to-blade distance of your saw. Granted, a cross cut sled is one application where extended runners might be desirable, but you'll find plenty of applications where UHMW is a very viable alternative. By insetting the UHMW into a dado under the sled the runner is well constrained and will hold its shape.

Do I remember correctly that your sled is intended for cutting 1 x 12s? You wouldn't get much advantage using extended runners for a sled designed for that capacity. I don't see any real advantage to using extended runners unless you are building a sled to cross cut large panels. When working with pieces that large I generally prefer referencing to the TS fence.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Moz, regarding the UHMW strips for the miter slot: I tried that and had to take the strip off. If you extend the runners out past the front and/or rear edges to gain cutting width on the saw the UHMW will bend. UHMW has to be supported to work. The most you could extend the runners would be about 2-3". Hardwood works the best, lasts a surprisingly long time, and costs virtually nothing to make even if you fail a few times making them (as in too tight/loose or too high).


I think the UHMW is great for runners but I don't extend the runners..
also I found that if truss head/K-Lath screws and flat bottom countersunk holes is a big plus too over FH screws/countersinks..
way less shifting/distortion/splitting of the rails...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Ratbob said:


> @Moz - Don't give up on UHMW quite yet. Chuck's perfectly valid warning is for those applications where you want your runner to extend beyond the end of your jig/sled. Typically this is only needed when you are building a fixture to support pieces larger than the front-to-blade distance of your saw. Granted, a cross cut sled is one application where extended runners might be desirable, but you'll find plenty of applications where UHMW is a very viable alternative. By insetting the UHMW into a dado under the sled the runner is well constrained and will hold its shape.
> 
> Do I remember correctly that your sled is intended for cutting 1 x 12s? You wouldn't get much advantage using extended runners for a sled designed for that capacity. I don't see any real advantage to using extended runners unless you are building a sled to cross cut large panels. When working with pieces that large I generally prefer referencing to the TS fence.


a flip up infeed table or a simple shelf brackets will add tremendously to safety...


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

I want my poor stupid little crossfeed sled just to make my box joints for my beehive boxes.
When and if I become really proficient to make things for people utilizing large pieces of wood, I figured I will then construct one of those "big boy" cross cut sleds that are like 4' across and 3' wide. Like Norm's uber cool crosscut slet with the really fancy carved back fence (I now fully understand why it has the curved raised section in the center!).

This is where the "Information Overload" can make one crazy as a loon...
RF helps sort the wheat from the chaff, in that you guys actually work with these things, and add a MUCH needed voice of reason to what all the strangers on YouTube and the Web tell me...

Ozer was just asking me if I do or don't want my piece of plastic for runners (he's having to get some more clamps for some Green Screen filming set up he is building in our living room...)It looks like some bizarre old folk's home here ATM, the recliners are askew clustered around his PC Desk, with giant studio lights and a 14' green screen frame stretched across one wall...lol!
Since the hardwood place is here in town, I'll try wood, if only to see how quickly it wears down. Mind you, I'm not going to be slamming these beehives out in the thousands, or even the hundreds, so yes, I am probably overthinking the hell out of it. That too, is part of the problem when you don't have access to fellow woodworkers in your area - You should see the problems we have trying to get bee keeping info! :shock:

~M


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> a flip up infeed table or a simple shelf brackets will add tremendously to safety...


I love you Sticky, but since I have no clue what you are talking about *YET*, I'm probably not skilled enough to build those... 

~M


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

go over to Woodcraft on Garden of the gods and meet other woodworkers...
take their classes...
read the uploads...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sticky???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you have 5 Lowes in town...
four of which are super stores..
open early..
close late..
prowl them...

the store on Constitution and Powers is a dump and leaves a lot to be desired..

you have several guilds (2?) and WW clubs (3?)..
also there is Colorado Woodworkers on Filmore...
they are a club...
Woodcraft has classes....

visit..
get on the mailing list...
pick a class...
go to school...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> Sticky???


That's cute >


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

He's such a pussycat; really!


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Yea, but Sticky??? What do you suppose he's been doing?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

More mind bleach....quick!


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Everything I am endeared to ends up with an "y" or "eee" sound on the end.

All my cats are named that way. Yami, Weezy, Poopsie, and Mozi.
Ozer isn't Ozzy, because he is Ozer by his preference. He isn't the derelict old rocker dude.

Stick always makes me smile and want to just cuddle him. Hence "Sticky."
We won't go into details how he gets that way... ;D
~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

So, in theory 'Stick' should be 'Easy'?


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

He probably plays hard to get, tho...
~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not going there...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> I've read both pages of this (very important) thread and haven't seen mention of featherboards... In my opinion (for what it is worth) push sticks are for "Y", but featherboards are critical for "X". The grain on wood will quite often cause a board to veer away from the fence on rip cuts - good featherboard setups can prevent this. Also, make certain that the blade's protrusion distance puts the "gullets" just slightly above the upper face of the workpiece. With the best push stick and intentions, an over-protrusion of a blade will still give one a memorable "manicure".
> 
> Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


Excellent points.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

oh boy...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

and I'm calling animal control @Moz...

is Rickie related to you...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, Sticky, what do you have to say, now?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Well, Sticky, what do you have to say, now?


looks like somebody thinks I'm their new pet...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Well, Sticky, what do you have to say, now?


so would that make you Billie Bobbie...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> So, in theory 'Stick' should be 'Easy'?


yup...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Not going there...


why not Dannie...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> why not Dannie...


'You have the wrong number. Please check your Directory.'


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ricky & Sticky....


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Ricky & Sticky....


Sitting in a tree?


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Ozer asks why I'm giggling like a silly idiot over here on my side of the room (He's working on a vid with his new Green Screen...) and I read this morning's postings. When I read Dan's and my last posts, 
he chimes in,

"No telling what the hell they are doing up there..."

We are VERY easily amused in my house...
Evidently some of you are too...I lurve you guys!
~M


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Sticky...?!?!?!?!

As in Sticky Buns...????

There's no way a stash raid in a black stealth chopper will hit the news with Sticky Buns and Billy Bobbie running it... L M A O R O T F...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, crikey! What have we done?! 
From push sticks to sticky buns...:surprise:

NSA is rolling in the aisles.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

OK; back to our regular programming...
Dual-Tread Push Stick - Lee Valley Tools
Seriously?! * $32?!!!*
I made one last night in about 15 minutes...including rounding over all the topside edges freehand with my trim router. Cost? Free. Scrap 3/4" Birch ply.
I'd been procrastinating, and Moz's pics made me do it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> 'You have the wrong number. Please check your Directory.'


doubt it...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Ricky & Sticky....


grunt....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> ... L M A O R O T F...


is that slow mo or time dilation???


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> OK; back to our regular programming...
> Dual-Tread Push Stick - Lee Valley Tools
> Seriously?! * $32?!!!*
> I made one last night in about 15 minutes...including rounding over all the topside edges freehand with my trim router. Cost? Free. Scrap 3/4" Birch ply.
> I'd been procrastinating, and Moz's pics made me do it.


Glad to be able to give back a little... 
What, you don't want to pay $32 for a fancy spring loaded heel pin and rubber tracks? heathen.

~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No.


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *vchiarelli
The Crosscut Sled doesn't have to be pretty or elaborate, it just has to work.
I use this one: it was good enough for Norm, so it's good enough for me (excuse the pictures, they're from my phone in dim light)*

+1. Do as simple as possible. enough to do your job. so let your curve of learning improve it. Sometimes, jump steps, does not help.
P.s. the Picture quality, shows exactly the idea, to me!
Sid.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

oops on the pictures...


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## Dan_D (Jun 23, 2016)

On this topic, I came across this just now. He is very lucky he didn't get his finger cut off while demonstrating this unsafe technique. The video shows very clearly how close that finger came to being separated. It gave me the shivers.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh c'mon...he was thinking safety: he hung that protective blanket to protect his tools, eh?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I've got one of those Gripper thingies I use for special projects. But for 'normal' usage I just grab a piece of plywood, cut a notch in it, and go to town. They get chewed up very fast, but even if they don't I usually don't keep them long, and when I need another, I just notch another piece of plywood. If I need downward pressure, I make too. It's a real pain trying to track down one already made, and a pain to make one fancy - I don't need either. Works for me.


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## Dan_D (Jun 23, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Oh c'mon...he was thinking safety: he hung that protective blanket to protect his tools, eh?


Forgot about the most important tools, though; his hands. 

I don't think I would have demonstrated a dangerous technique because, after all, it is dangerous so why demonstrate it, unless the demonstration could be made in such a way that his hand still wasn't anywhere near that blade.


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