# Face Frame jig?



## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

I am building my own kitchen cabinets very soon, so I have been out in the shop doing upgrades and ramping up to start this. I am going to build a outfeed table/assembly bench. One obvious part that I would like to design into this is some sort of right angle (square) jig that I can basically set into the table to make the face frame assembly easier and faster. Does anyone have any ideas of what they have done? I have a very small shop and making something double/triple the use is very inviting (as long as it doesn't make something else harder etc)

Thanks for your help!


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Ryan without seeing what you have for an outfeed table that's hard to say. You have to watch that one function doesn't impact other functions so if you do it it is likely something that should attach with pegs or screws so as to be removable when not needed. Sometimes it is better to take something like that and build it so that it clamps to your table instead so that it is easily removable and doesn't require alterations to your outfeed. Also, by mounting it on a scrap of plywood you will not be risking getting a bunch of glue on your table if you also plan on gluing the joints, which I would probably do.


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

+1 I'm with Cherryville on this...screw your square (couple of sticks) on a piece of plywood rather then your outfeed table...you can always clamp the plywood to the table...might also make it easier to store and when you're finished with your cabinets you can take it apart...it might be a single function jig for now (depending on your other projects) but not at all expensive 

You'll be able to use it for the face frame and the carcass...

I had made myself a folding triangle shaped frame but found it not to be as repeatable as I would like...back in the spares bucket...


----------



## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

Good point on making it just clamp down. I am actually building the table yet, actually in design phase yet so I am totally open to ideas


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I bought a Kreg clamping table (https://www.kregtool.com/store/c30/clamp-tables/p394/clamp-table/) on an Amazon Warehouse deal about 18 months ago. Works like a champ for what it is. The little black squaring guides are self-squaring in the track, and serve to square the assembly, but easy to move/remove so the top can be a simple flat surface. The downside to the production table is that it is small for a face frame, and if bigger--would have more function if there were 2 more track pieces making an E shaped configuration. 

I've got an office conference table that I can remove the top from, replace that with 3/4" MDF, lay in my e-shaped track, infill with 3/4" MDF. Replace the current homemade base with one a little shorter so it matches up to my table saw height use it for outfeed/assembly. Type "kreg assembly table plan" into your browser, and a lot of hits come up. I'm planning on 30" x 72" plus or minus. No way i'd want to have to lift/store a top that size--so it would have to do double duty. Kreg sells the track and clamp blocks, but I've got a fair amount of 80/20 track that I may be able to use (just haven't tried the clamp blocks in it--would need to fit with no slop).

Thanks for the reminder on yet another shop project!!
earl


----------



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

rbecklund said:


> I am building my own kitchen cabinets very soon, so I have been out in the shop doing upgrades and ramping up to start this. I am going to build a outfeed table/assembly bench. One obvious part that I would like to design into this is some sort of right angle (square) jig that I can basically set into the table to make the face frame assembly easier and faster. Does anyone have any ideas of what they have done? I have a very small shop and making something double/triple the use is very inviting (as long as it doesn't make something else harder etc)
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Building kitchen cabinets in a small shop isn't going to be an easy job. I would think you need to be very well organized plus have a good plan and work flow.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

hawkeye10 said:


> Building kitchen cabinets in a small shop isn't going to be an easy job. I would think you need to be very well organized plus have a good plan and work flow.


+1 What Don said.

Browse through my threads I have started. I have built numerous kitchen cabinets in a one car garage. Believe me, you need to have a plan.

Here is my face frame assembly jig.
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/74561-portable-pocket-screw-face-frame-assembly-jig.html

For example take our kitchen remodel...

We built the upper cabinets first. Had 'em stacked in the living room. Then we removed the old ones, made a few changes,repairs,etc and then put up the new ones.

Ditto for to bottom cabinets. As for demo, the sink cabinet was the last man standing (and the original problem to begin with).

*Our kitchen remodel
*

Trudi and Archie's Rental Duplex


Trudi and Archie's house remodel

Blake and JoAnn's Kitchen Remodel


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I guess I have been building cabinet all wrong, I just use pocket hole screws on face frames no glue no squareing table, if all your frames pieces are cut correctly when you screw it together it will be square. When you mount the frames to the cabinet where is it going to go?


----------



## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

MT Stringer said:


> +1
> Here is my face frame assembly jig.
> http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/74561-portable-pocket-screw-face-frame-assembly-jig.html
> 
> ...


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I like Mikes jig too, but have used the Kreg Klamp Table and it works quite well, so it's a good possibility if you don't want to make it yourself, but they do look and work differently
I have used a friend's Kreg Table. I haven't build Mike's design yet, but I do like it. Maybe someday soon I'll be making his design.

Charley


----------



## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Semipro is right..I think the pocket hole assembly is the easiest you just need to make straight cuts.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have built a lot of face frames...75 or more. Sometimes the boards just don't want to sit when the screw is inserted! :surprise::grin::grin::grin:

I know I wouldn't! >

Even when clamped with a single clamp they may move. So I clamp them securely. Just my way of doing things. My jig didn't cost me anything to build because I had all the material and hardware.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

My experience with face frames using Kreg pocket screws has been that what counts is setting up your saws to cut precise 90s. I assemble on my outfeed table and if I need a brace to hold parts together, I clamp squares in place. However, If I were going to put a jig together, I'd cut a corner off a piece of good ply and/MDF and maybe add a clamp or two to that for hold down purposes. I might cut an opening in the table and the jig so I could clamp the jig down firmly. It is really hard to attach pieces to a jig at a perfect 90 degree angle, so why not use the factory edge and corner instead? This would be a good method for using biscuits to assemble the frame. Biscuits are loose fitting until the glue sets, so you must clamp them tightly and a frame jig makes sense for that in particular.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Agree with @DesertRat Tom that the most important part of the face frame build is that the ends of the parts are cut at exactly 90° - without that you won't get a tight assembly, even if you clamp it in a fixture as the joint will be slightly open on the one side. I use a driver with a clutch to drive the screws and have it set to give a snug screw and then finish off (if needed) with a screwdriver -if the end wasn't square, you would get some movement of the part as the screw pulled the open side closed. Like Marc, I layout the joint at each end and a good check for square is if the rail lines up with the pencil lines at the second rail - you can see the pencil lines on the stiles at each end of the center rail in the second photo, any mismatch would indicate that the rail end wasn't square. 

I bought one of the original Kreg jigs (the non-adjustable aluminum one) from a demonstration at the Woodworking Show many years ago, and have put a lot of miles on that jig - although I did upgrade to the K4 to give me the option to use different thicknesses of woods. The demo at the Show included assembly of the face frame, and the method they showed was exactly like Marc Sommerfeld shows in this video 



 with the joint hanging off the edge of the workbench so that it can be clamped and the screws installed. In the first photo, I used two clamps on the joint with the wide rail to get good alignment across the joint face - note how small the original clamp (at left) is compared to one of the newer ones.

My buddy (ex-partner) just finished making some cabinets for his shop and built a jig that used toggle bolts on the legs of the squaring arms to hold the frame parts in place and then the (Kreg) clamp at the joint to drive the screws. It seemed a little cumbersome to me, but I guess it's what you get used to - and the jig could be a problem if the frame openings get small - i.e. one with drawer openings. 

Bottom line - everyone has their favorite way to do things, and they all work, it's just a function of what you're comfortable with.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I really like the simplicity of using a sheet of ply for assembly since it would be easy to clamp the rails and stiles to it. But I'd want to have it well waxed or covered with laminate to keep any glue from sticking, not only for face frames, but for any assembly I wanted to glue down. I keep 18 inch wide rolls of plastic coated butcher paper around for assembly with glue. Much better than wax paper, and very easy cleanup.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I guess the OP has moved on. No recent posts from him.


----------



## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

Nope, I haven't left, I have just been busy in the shop. Too bad I have to work tomarow because I have tons of ideas now. I got my outfeed/assembly table built and my table saw all tuned up. Next is a face frame jig and to start my cabinet build! I might change up my dust collection yet also. It has too long of runs for great suction. I appreciate all the ideas, keep them coming!


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Sounds good. Good luck.


----------

