# Combination horizontal and vetical router design



## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Hi,
While going through the various threads on the forum regarding vertical and horizontal router tables, I came across a mention of combination router tables. Tried searching the net to get some idea of what this was all about, but was unable to come across any worthwhile information. 

So I set about attempting to design a table that would enable routing horizontally & vertically. I am unable to attach sketch up files of my drawings. I have taken a couple of screen shots of the models. They are pretty crude, but I think they will help you guys understand what I am contemplating! Your comments on the drawings and any possible improvements will be much appreciated


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## MasterSplinter1 (Jan 27, 2013)

I see what your going for but if it swings the the router will be facing the wrong way. Unless you take the router of the mount and flip it.


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## pretender74 (May 27, 2011)

Nice. Loks like you should hook up with Matthias Wandell.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rajiv, simple is better. Start with a box, mount a router inside it and you have a router table. On the end of the box attach a board that can pivot; mount a router to it and make a notch in the box end for the cutter. The board is pivoted up for use as a horizontal router table and lowered so you can use the box mounted router as a regular router table.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Hi Mike thanks for the info, like I said I was unable to find a picture of a combination router table, hence the doodling with sketchup as I had some free time! If you don't mind could you put up a picture of the table that you just described? I am entirely with you on keeping it simple.

I have looked up Matthias Wandell's work Gary, I would not bother to pretend that we are on the same plane! He is a doer, while currently all that I do is dream of the things that I would like to make!! will contact him all the same to see what input he may provide.

I think you misunderstood the diagram Rene. look at the picture with the router positioned horizontally. In this position the construct is hinged six inches above the plane of the table to ensure that the centre of the router shaft is aligned to top of the horizontal table. The router can be located further up provide more space between the table and the router blade as desired by adjusting the height of the pivot.

From the horizontal position if one drops the pivots to the height of the table, and then swings the front of the router anticlockwise it will come to rest in a vertical position.


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## tooler2 (Aug 11, 2012)

My personal preference is for dedicated industrial machines. The capacity of massive cast iron to absorb vibration has to be felt to be appreciated. A router table will never give this feel but can of course be set up to produce accurate work. I suspect that your design will give up too much rigidity for the meager benefit of saving purchase of a second router. A used router can be had for about 10 dollars. What would be the primary use for the horizontal router?
Rob


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## delmirj (Jan 10, 2013)

*Horizontal Router Table*

I currently have a Jointech router table which works fine. I would like to have a horizontal router also. This set-up would be used primarily for M&T work and would replace my Leigh FMT machine which has limitations, primarily the vertical length which can be machined.
I agree with the person who said that heavy duty ccommercial machines work best.
Can anyone recommend a good commercial horizontal router table? I have searched the internet with limited success.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Seems to me I have seen just what you're talking about. And I will be darned if I can remember where I saw it.  I will take a look around, and post a link if I can find it.

Wow. I did a simple search, using 'horizontal and vertical router table'. I got a BUNCH of hits, way too many to post, so here is the search link I used. http://www1.search-results.com/web?...229100898142:uc=1362511585:src=ieb:o=APN10645

If you can't use that link, just do a search, you'll find all sorts of stuff on them.


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

rajivmarcose said:


> Hi,
> Your comments on the drawings and any possible improvements will be much appreciated


I like your idea. Straight away I think the connection points in real life will need to be a lot more robust than you can possibly achieve with clamping force at the hinge points. 

I have a router head mortiser/ milling machine that uses an X-Y table which I've converted to a lever actuated table. The router is mounted on a plate that is bolted to two very heavy pieces of angle iron ( not the flimsy stuff from a bed frame). Those two pieces extend from a hinge point and also extend past that hinge point on the other side so I have a moment arm where all the clamping takes place. I have about 7" on the other side of the hinge. The hinge is also a clamp as it is half inch threaded rod and nuts that I tighten when it's in position.
I can angle the power head but not by 90 degrees the way you want to

I don't get detectable movement under load.

Honestly I should think that your two-position-router idea would be much more do-able if you settled for two kinds of machines: A router table and another one for horizontal mounting as opposed to one table that lets you flip the router to 90 Degrees.

There are reasons for this beyond the complexity of your design which I think will require a fair bit of steel and some welding and fab work to get right.
Take the use of a Fence as one example. Where, in your design, do you have a place for the fence? Where can you create one? Lots of guys use two kinds of fences. There's the lovely Pat Warner-esq stand up fence that is tall (up to 6" or 8" tall) and then there is a fence that is just a piece of straight wood that doesn't need to be more than an inch or so high. I use both and can't imagine a router table that doesn't have at least one fence option.


A fence might obtain in your flip up design if you went with some kind of split table much like a Dining table that opens up in the middle to accept the insert. Only you would not need an insert, you would simply need one half of the table to get out of your way when you transitioned from vertical to horizontal.

You would need a very precise way to locate the two top halves for re-assembly to obtain coplanarity.

As an aside, if this is a design idea you are working out for some kind of production item you may have just eliminated the possibility of a patent. Or at least you have damaged the possibility that you could enforce any patent that is based on your ideas: This because you just put them in the public purview. 

Additionally the input from any other party also endangers the possibility of an exclusive patent because the other person whose contributions help form your thinking and design 
are the property of that person. So if this is a concept for a production venture, I recommend that you get this thread deleted and don't use the input of the people from the thread. Yes, it is what I do for a living.


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## rout66 (Oct 19, 2011)

*a patented commercially available hinged X-Y router table by RBI*



CR1 said:


> Additionally the input from any other party also endangers the possibility of an exclusive patent because the other person whose contributions help form your thinking and design are the property of that person.
> 
> You can search THIS Router forum for:
> 
> ...


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## MasterSplinter1 (Jan 27, 2013)

Rajv... sorry for misunderstanding. Will love to see the finished product.


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## Guarnera (Feb 25, 2013)

Looks like over engineering to me. I was looking thru my 95 year old father in laws old Fine Woodworking magazines and they had an article on building a combo table. The horizontal router was mounted on a board the with of the router table. Attached on one end with a bolt. On the other end they cut a radiused slot the radius being equal to the distance between the two. A bolt went into the radiused slot into the horizontal table. The router was mounted between the two, so as you pivot the board up and down the router moves up and down in a slight arc. Which doesn't matter. Then they had a fine adjustment made with threaded rod and some nuts. If you would like I can see if I can find it again, and send you a copy. It's all been figured out already, or it might help a little with your own design.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

ShopCenter Tilting Router Table - "It does so much more!" - Page 1

==


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rajiv, I lost my copy of the photo in a system crash a couple years ago. I PM'ed BJ about this... he may still have it.

Another option is the Woodrat.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Dear Guys,
Thank you all for your input, especially you CR1, The only real reason for having a vertical router table, is to enable me to mortice long pieces of wood (as in door and window frames) everything else can be handled by a regular horizontal table. 

The reason I sketched the diagram was to enable our minds to focus on the problem at hand, which is really when we start attempting to recall and apply information stored away that we did not even know that we knew. Also when faced with the same problem, each of us view it from our own perspectives. we come up with different solutions to the same problem. These different perspectives enrich all of us.

As for as patents go, I am entirely old school. All through life I have profited from the work and ideas of other men, all freely given. If anything that I do is useful to anyone at all, I am entirely happy for you to profit from it. At least that way someone will benefit from it.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Would love to see that design Tony if you are able to find it. There is a certain fun in attempting to figure out something on your own. That way when you see the work of others, one learns to appreciate it better!


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Thanks Mike, BJ has sent me the links. will look through them and get back to you.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

*Revised diagram based on Mike's input!*

Mike,
had a look at the link BJ put up. Very nice. Also had a a took at the MLCS flat bed horizontal router, based on these I have done a revised diagram. Is this anything like what you advised?


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## Guarnera (Feb 25, 2013)

rajivmarcose said:


> Would love to see that design Tony if you are able to find it. There is a certain fun in attempting to figure out something on your own. That way when you see the work of others, one learns to appreciate it better!


 You know how when you are trying to find something in a magazine that you know you saw but can't find it for anything? Well that didn't happen (this time). I found it right away.However I'm don't have a scanner and I'm a computer idiot anyway. So if you PM me your snail mail address I'll get a copy out to you. It's titled "The Ultimate Router Table." Then if you want, and are allowed to, you can share it with the forum. I don't know what the rules or the law is about posting published articles.
By the way, looking at your sketch's, your plan looks very nice and robust. The only problem I think I would have, at least with my machining skills, is the track that the plate holding the router travels up and down in. You are not going to want any movement in the router in use. And if you make the tracks that tight, it might hamper up and down movement when you want to. Do you have some type of locking device, incorporated to lock the plate into place once in position? It's probably on there and I didn't see it . It would be real nice to have the router plate on a track with bearings and a locking device to snug it up when in place.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9782-best-both-worlds.html

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/33162-mlcs-horizontal-router-table-update.html

==


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Its funny how most things in life come full circle. Had a look at your solution Bj! Two dedicated routers on the same table. That I guess will provide the most sturdy construct and the least bother with setting up! Thanks for all the input.


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## Alan Bienlein (Oct 17, 2009)

You might be thinking of this one maybe.
Router table (


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## Mark55 (Sep 6, 2012)

Here is one I designed to make spline slots in the plywood for odd shaped cabinets.

Here is a video link of it being used.
Router table made to go horizontal to vertical - YouTube


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Many clever solutions but still not the one I mentioned. I will see what I can dig up.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Rajiv

All that's needed is just One router motor ,just switch place..BUT you can't have to many routers.. 

===



rajivmarcose said:


> Its funny how most things in life come full circle. Had a look at your solution Bj! Two dedicated routers on the same table. That I guess will provide the most sturdy construct and the least bother with setting up! Thanks for all the input.


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

rout66 said:


> CR1 said:
> 
> 
> > Additionally the input from any other party also endangers the possibility of an exclusive patent because the other person whose contributions help form your thinking and design are the property of that person.
> ...


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## CR1 (Aug 11, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Rajiv
> 
> BUT you can't have to many routers..
> 
> ===


I didn't used to think this was so, but now I own - - - - 5 of them.
How did that happen? I didn't see them mating or anything.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Thanks Alan, very interesting video! The manner in which he has figured out a router lift and a mechanism to mover the fence is very interesting. will most probably do something along those lines for my router lift too! Thanks again.


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Thanks Bob, I get what you mean! But the idea is to get approval from head office (wife) for a second router! As always there has to be a reason !!


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## rajivmarcose (Feb 17, 2013)

Hi Mike have a look at the link that Alan put up. The entire construct looks very interesting to me. was wondering whether the fence attachment (which doubles as the base when the router is oriented horixontally) would stand up to the load of someone pressing firmly against it when routing ?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rajiv, there are all kinds of designs in router tables and they all work. Some are just too "busy" for me. Bob and Rick Rosendahl of the Router Workshop TV series taught viewers to "Keep it simple." Rick talked me into trying a Router Workshop table shortly after I joined the forums and I quickly came to agree that simple is better.

I am still trying to find the photos of the design I mentioned in my earlier post. If I can't come up with one I will see about making one for you to check out.


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*horizontal router*

HI Mike did you ever manage to find the photos of that horizontal router. regards carl


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Rajiv,

There is a combination horizontal / vertical router table available, but it's expensive ($800). Go to this web page Products 
Look for RouterSHOP about 1/2 way down the page.

It has a 2 piece table and one piece is hinged to tilt up to any position from flat up to 90 degrees and it can be locked at any position. The router is mounted on a sliding plate that is attached to this tilting part of the table. A hand crank allows you to move the router instead of the fence for adjusting the position of the cut. Manuals are available for download from their website, so you can learn how it works.

Charley


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Charley, do they ship to Qatar? If not it won't be much help to Rajiv.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Mike,

I think if someone wants a product, they should be contacting the manufacturer of that product to see if it can be purchased and shipped to them. I've only suggested that there is such a router table and provided it's name. If the OP is interested, they can search on this information to find and contact the manufacturer. The manufacturer can then determine the best way to do business and arrange shipping.

BobJ3 posted a link to information about this product in post #13 of this thread, but the information contained in his link was created when the original inventor was marketing it, before RB Industries had purchased and begun manufacturing this router table, so it carries a different name in that link. It's still the same router table design and nearly unchanged from that original model. Actually, a third company Bushton Manufacturing has now purchased RB Industries and is manufacturing and selling the router table along with the other products that were formerly manufactured by RB Industries. You can still find the websites by searching for RouterShop RS29 or RB Industries or RBI woodworking tools, but here is a link to their latest catalog
Hawk Woodworking Tools Catalog

I saw these router tables being demonstrated at trade shows over the past 15 years and I was quite interested in them, but I never felt that they were worth the price that was being asked for one. Last Friday I found a nearly complete RBI RouterShop RS29 in my local Habitat ReStore for $150, a significant savings over the list price, and I bought it. I've been cleaning it up and trying a few cuts with it, but so far I have not come to any decisions about it. Life ind it's responsibilities are severely limiting my time in the shop right now.

Charley


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

You will probably get a more up to date catalog here:

Hawk Woodworking Industries

Charley, your link has a side note to say that was not the latest catalog.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks James,

When I searched and found that catalog link I was really looking for the RouterShop router table information and the manufacturer's phone number for the OP. I did not take the time to read every word on the screen. Again, the OP should be contacting the manufacturer for accurate pricing and delivery. If delivery involves a shipment to Quatar, then the manufacturer is the only one who can accurately provide information on this.

Charley


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## Scott Smith (Aug 2, 2013)

*From Bushton Manufacturing*



Mike said:


> Charley, do they ship to Qatar? If not it won't be much help to Rajiv.


I am a rep for Hawk Woodworking Tools and just happened to stumble across this website while searching for some other information. After reading up a bit, I can say that we have no problem shipping anywhere in the world. We do require that complete payment be made via guaranteed wire transfer before any product ships outside of the United States. If there are any other questions or concerns, please feel free to call us at +1 620-562-3447, or email me at [email protected]. You can also fill out the form on our "Contact Us" page.


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