# I’m about ready to take a sledge to my router!!



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

This is happening way too many times and I’m about to smash this dang router to bits with a sledge.

Unfortunately it was just supposed to be a little quick little job only about a 12”long 3/8x3/8” cut. I spent a lot of time making sure it was tight but I think it dropped as soon as I turned it up side down. I felt a little extra pull right off but I figured it was because the bit was a little dull. Since it was supposed to be quick I went for it, then I saw it. Dang about $30 bucks worth of damage and about an 1-½ hour worth of work.:cray:

What is going on, is this just a crappy router or is it me. This is why I hate routing. I should have used my circular saw.

This must be the router from Hell.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

The wife told me to just go out and buy me the Bosch Colt for fathers day.
but I still need to decide the fate of this craftsman. it runs good and is a fairly powerful router. I just wish I could fix this problem.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

First off, how deep of cut are your trying to make? Second, if that bit was dull, you'd have burn marks all the way through, ie., from start to finish of cut. Multiple passes should be used. Has the bit changed to a blueish color? If so, it's trashed.

It looks to me like, your router isn't being held tight against that fence or straight edge you're using. How secure is your fence? Is it moving or "flexing?"


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> First off, how deep of cut are your trying to make? Second, if that bit was dull, you'd have burn marks all the way through, ie., from start to finish of cut. Multiple passes should be used. Has the bit changed to a blueish color? If so, it's trashed.
> 
> It looks to me like, your router isn't being held tight against that fence or straight edge you're using. How secure is your fence? Is it moving or "flexing?"


I had it set for 3/8” deep. I had figured that it was coming loose in the collate on the previous times, so I really cranked it down and It definitely was not the collate. 

The fence has nothing to do with it. It was fine and did what it was supposed to do. The problem is the base can’t be tightened down to keep the motor from sliding down. When I adjust it and tighten it down it seems alright, at least I can’t move it, but as soon as I start it up the motor drops like there isn’t any way to tighten it.
Last year I posted that this very router would not move at all so I used WD40 to get it to adjust, now it is the opposite problem. 

Anyway I just got back from Home Dept with a new router and I’m trying to figure out what I’m going to do to fix the damage. 

Oh and I did buy a new bit.

Additional Info: I just looked at the photo again and I see why you think there was a problem with the fence. The piece that I was working on was actually a ¾” poplar rail that I was cutting a 3/8" rabbit in to inside edge. The bit was not supposed to drop all the way down into the plywood,


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

There should be a screw/bolt & nut that holds the locking mechanism. Try replacing with a different screw/bolt or readjust it. I don't have this particular unit. I have an older 3hp+ pro craftsman and the newer 2 1/4 hp, both are combo units, plunge and fixed bases. Neither have that particular body style.

This is and has always been an issue with craftsmen routers. So, you aren't alone with this problem.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> There should be a screw/bolt & nut that holds the locking mechanism. Try replacing with a different screw/bolt or readjust it. I don't have this particular unit. I have an older 3hp+ pro craftsman and the newer 2 1/4 hp, both are combo units, plunge and fixed bases. Neither have that particular body style.
> 
> This is and has always been an issue with craftsmen routers. So, you aren't alone with this problem.


Thanks Ken for your help, I’m going look for the owner’s manual tonight and see if there is anything on it or at least see if there is an exploded view of it.

I got say I’m not having much luck with routers today. I opened up my new router and discovered half the parts were missing, so I had to run back to Home Depot and get another one.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Another problem that may be getting you! I do not use Any lubrication on the router , especially with adjustment. I would take it loose, and clean it from any lube. I would polish it all up and it should move OK. The router that You have is a good router, even some guys don't like it. I think that Sears just got a bad name, along the way!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

This may or may not be of help but, check here as well: Craftsman - Router Forums




> Another problem that may be getting you! I do not use Any lubrication on the router , especially with adjustment. I would take it loose, and clean it from any lube. I would polish it all up and it should move OK. The router that You have is a good router, even some guys don't like it. I think that Sears just got a bad name, along the way!


Hi Howard,

Craftsmen used to be of top quality products. Over the yrs, they'd have really good stuff then, it would drop off to really poor quality. Not necessarily the quality of material it's made from but, the quality of craftsmanship that made it. Even "design" flaws have shown up from time to time of late. For their routers, these past 5yrs or so, they've been good. You did bring up a good point about cleaning it though. This should be done ever so often regardless the amount of use.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Johnny

It sounds like you are not locking the motor in place once you have it adjusted, that black ring should lock it in place..if it's not locked in it will move down. if you can't get it to lock, slip on a big hose clamp or some duck tape will hold it place..but now that you have a new router you may want to get the manual out tonight and read the book. 


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JohnnyB60 said:


> This is happening way too many times and I’m about to smash this dang router to bits with a sledge.
> 
> Unfortunately it was just supposed to be a little quick little job only about a 12”long 3/8x3/8” cut. I spent a lot of time making sure it was tight but I think it dropped as soon as I turned it up side down. I felt a little extra pull right off but I figured it was because the bit was a little dull. Since it was supposed to be quick I went for it, then I saw it. Dang about $30 bucks worth of damage and about an 1-½ hour worth of work.:cray:
> 
> ...


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Johnny
> 
> It sounds like you are not locking the motor in place once you have it adjusted, that black ring should lock it in place..if it's not locked in it will move down. if you can't get it to lock, slip on a big hose clamp or some duck tape will hold it place..but now that you have a new router you may want to get the manual out tonight and read the book.
> 
> ...


Actually I don’t think I ever figured out how the ring is supposed to work. I just turn the leaver to the “open lock” direction and turn the black ring until I get the depth I need. Then I turn the leaver back the “closed lock” position. The reason I doubt myself is that sometimes I cannot turn the black ring at all in any position. The time I mentioned using WD40 I had to use a giant adjustable pliers to get it to turn.

Here is the previous thread when I was having problems.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Johnny

It was a design error in that model of Craftsman ,the rings would fill up with router dust and lock them right up tight and the same on some of the PC routers as well... it would give you a false sense of hope thinking the router locked the motor but all it did is locked up some saw dust..and than when you fired it up it would move a little bit.. 

=========






JohnnyB60 said:


> Actually I don’t think I ever figured out how the ring is supposed to work. I just turn the leaver to the “open lock” direction and turn the black ring until I get the depth I need. Then I turn the leaver back the “closed lock” position. The reason I doubt myself is that sometimes I cannot turn the black ring at all in any position. The time I mentioned using WD40 I had to use a giant adjustable pliers to get it to turn.
> 
> Here is the previous thread when I was having problems.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Johnny
> 
> It was a design error in that model of Craftsman ,the rings would fill up with router dust and lock them right up tight and the same on some of the PC routers as well... it would give you a false sense of hope thinking the router locked the motor but all it did is locked up some saw dust..and than when you fired it up it would move a little bit..
> 
> =========


Ok that explains it. I believe this is exactly what is going on. 

I guess I’m going to make another attempt to take it apart to check it out. I didn’t get very far last year in removing the base.

I was able to finish my work today with my new trim router, but I can see that need more power because it took 3 times as long to do what I needed to do. 

I don’t want buy another router just right now because I just got back from vacation and I need to recuperate from that expense.:laugh:


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## dermer2002 (May 29, 2010)

Hi Johnny,

Being a tool nut kinda guy I would approach the problem this way. Take the router apart. Clean everything. Like Howard says, you shouldn't need lubrication on anything. 

Try to understand how the adjustment ring (that black thing) meshes with both the router motor housing and with the base. I would think the ring is for depth adjustment only and not for locking the motor in place. Are the machined surfaces smooth, without burrs? Does the ring turn smoothly without the motor housing in place? When you put the motor back in the base, does the ring stop turning smoothly? Try to determine which parts are binding.

Not haveing ever seen this router style there are some things common to their general construction. From reading your posts I agree with the others that the locking mechanism is not holding. 

From what I can see in the diagram linked in your previous thread http://www.m-and-d.com/pdfs/ryobi_tool/R161.pdf the locking mechanism is not very robust. It does appear to only turn 90 degrees (there is a pin under it with a limit groove in the lever). I wonder if there is something interfering with the compression of the base. It's not clear in the diagram how the base compresses on the motor housing, or how the 1/2 turn lever applies pressure to the base, but I would bet that the issue is right there. There may be a way to adjust the clamping pressure of the lever, but I can't tell from the diagram. If you can't adjust the clamping pressure, it may be a design flaw that can't be solved except by the 'deep six' method. 

Like I said, I am a tool nut and enjoy this type of problem, but you may not have the same attitude. 

Hope this helps.


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## dermer2002 (May 29, 2010)

Hmmmmm, looking at the diagram further, I have another idea,

Remove the shaft lock label (part 44), and the shoulder screw (part 43). This should release the depth lock lever (part 41). Is that groove on the bottom of the lever worn or damaged? Perhaps there is no compression pressure between the base and the motor housing. Perhaps the depth lock lever just jams the needle roller (part 46) against the motor housing. 

If that is the case, the design is faulty. You have a plastic or pot metal part (the depth lever lock) that is not sturdy enough to immobilize the motor housing during operation.

In that event, I would decide that the router is not safe enough to use and would discard it before I lost any more time, money, or blood.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Maybe found the cause*

Before I go on I want to thank everyone for their input. I don’t think I would ever figure this out without your help. :agree:

Ok that Ryobi R161 drawing is exactly the same as the Craftsman for sure. I could not get the base off, but it was close enough to see what’s going on. I think the LOWER BEARING PLATE holds it from coming off and I don’t want to mess with the bearings and ARMATURE just yet.

Anyway I can definitely understand why NO OIL or lubricant of any kind. There are only two small surfaces to apply locking pressure (shown in first Photo) on the plastic threads used for the fine adjustment. This is a very pour design indeed. I guess it can work as long as the MOTOR HOUSING is clean (shown in second Photo) and the base is square on the motor housing.
I removed the locking leaver and there isn’t any adjustment that I can see.

After looking at this I think that I may have locked the base while the base was cocked and as soon as I set it up on the work surface, it straightened out and just fell.


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## dermer2002 (May 29, 2010)

Nice pics, Johnny,

I definitely see some wear and abrasion on the motor housing threads. Try gently smoothing those areas with a file; depth adjustment would probably improve. I think the lock lever design is 'kludgy' (quickly done and not robust). Welcome to the 'tool guy' ranks.....


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

I think the locking lever is damaged, or worn out. It looks like the pin groove in the locking lever is an internal cam. I assume that the pin is on one side of the split in the base and the theads for the lever screw are on the other. If so, the lever would compresses the pin toward the threaded hole when locked.

I think you need to replace the locking lever. If your router is model 315.275000, then the locking lever is the same as the one on the Ryobi diagram and is still available at sears direct: Depth lock lever, Number: 973669-001.

Shipping is about the same cost as the part, so if you want to gamble $15 instead of $10, you might want to buy 2. Here is the link to the 315.275000 parts list: Craftsman 2 hp, 9 amp Professional Router .

I would consider some lubrication for the pin in the groove. This should keep the action smooth and should not interfere with the depth adjustment.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

I have a 20 year old 1-1/4 hp Sears router that works just fine (haven't used it much - until now). It has a plastic body and the same kind of depth adjustment system. To make adjustments, you first set the yellow ring to zero by lining up the zero mark with the index, then unlock the base and turn the black ring to make your adjustment, being careful not to interfere with the yellow ring which should turn with the black one. Since the yelow rings are marked in 1/64" (~.016", or .40mm - see other thread ... :laugh, you can estimate half a graduation and make depth adjustments up to 1/128" (~.008", or .20mm).

I agree with Max on the damaged threads, they need to be filed, or sanded smooth. The black ring should spin freely. I recently bought some RENAISSANCE Microcrystalline WAX (7oz size is more cost effective) and I use it on all my tables, fences and miter grooves. It really makes thing slide much more smoothly. I used some on my router base threads and the adjustment ring turns very easily now. If you don't want to spring for this stuff, some regular Johnson paste wax might work too but it goes on much thicker, so it might just bind things up.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

RJM60 said:


> I think the locking lever is damaged, or worn out. It looks like the pin groove in the locking lever is an internal cam. I assume that the pin is on one side of the split in the base and the theads for the lever screw are on the other. If so, the lever would compresses the pin toward the threaded hole when locked.
> .


Yes it is definitely a cam action leaver and Ryobi calls it a NEEDLE ROLLER although it does not move or roll. 

Actually after I posted and started putting things back together, I started thinking about that cam leaver. The leaver is made out of heavy pot metal and did not look worn so I cleaned it real well so that it can move all the way. It is possible the sawdust acclimated in the cam grove preventing it from tightening all the way.

I thought about putting a little grease in the cam grove but then I was afraid that sawdust would stick. If I decide to trust this again I will probably use compressed air to blow out all the saw dust after each use and I don’t want to chance any being stuck. I can’t imagine that cam wearing out, because I only turn it 3 or 4 times a project, If I were doing it commercially 40 hr a week maybe. 

I am going to use BJ’s advice and use a big hose clamp around the threads as a precaution. :laugh:


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

RJM60 said:


> I agree with Max on the damaged threads, they need to be filed, or sanded smooth. The black ring should spin freely. I recently bought some RENAISSANCE Microcrystalline WAX (7oz size is more cost effective) and I use it on all my tables, fences and miter grooves. It really makes thing slide much more smoothly. I used some on my router base threads and the adjustment ring turns very easily now. If you don't want to spring for this stuff, some regular Johnson paste wax might work too but it goes on much thicker, so it might just bind things up.


Thanks Robert, I'll have to buy some and give it go.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I just love it when some like to take on old equipment, I would suggest you pickup a can of white spray paint give it a good coat and use it for a door stop, and I do like the Craftsman routers ,new ones and I had many of the old type but I don't keep to many door stops on hand..with the built in design error..you can see tons of them for sale on eBay for a song..it took a very long time for Sears to get it, routers make dust that will jam the router up..
I will say putting any lube in the mechanism is like putting in a dust magnet..

===========


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> I just love it when some like to take on old equipment, I would suggest you pickup a can of white spray paint give it a good coat and use it for a door stop, and I do like the Craftsman routers ,new ones and I had many of the old type but I don't keep to many door stops on hand..with the built in design error..you can see tons of them for sale on eBay for a song..it took a very long time for Sears to get it, routers make dust that will jam the router up..


This router has one weak design feature that can (likely) be easily repaired for $10. Then Johny has a decent router. Not bad for $10.



bobj3 said:


> Hi
> I will say putting any lube in the mechanism is like putting in a dust magnet..
> ===========


That may be but some lithium grease, or vaseline, on the pin should still help, even with dust build up. On the other hand, a liberal application might fill the pin groove and keep dust from building up. Rotating the lever would wipe the groove and the grease/dust mixture would be more slippery than dust alone. The grease would keep sticky resins from attaching to the lever, or the pin. Ultimately, if grease makes it worse, he can just wipe it off. Alternately, some wax (instead of grease) might also work.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Robert

The dust is the lube  plus it's not sticky 

========


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

This is why one should instill into themselves, a regular maintenance regime. Rather you clean your tools once a month, one a week, doesn't really matter. Just so long as one sits for themselves a regime and stick with it. As for example, a major project comes up, you don't want what happened to the OP to you. I know how much dust I make with my tools and how often I use them. I've sit for myself a regime in which I stick with to clean and maintain my tools. 

However, craftsman has flaws in the older routers. Rather one wants to continue spending $10, which will increase as time goes on. Is it worth it compared to purchasing a router that has had those flaws fixed? Only you can decide that. Me, I want my tools to work properly the first time and there after.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Well all in all this was a very good lesson because when I do buy a new router, I’ll have a pretty good idea of what to look for. :yes4: 

I saw a large router table over at Lowes yesterday and on my way home, I was thinking of removing that silly ring & locking mechanism, then permanently mounting the router base to a table and designing an external mechanism to raise and lower the router. Maybe even mounting it to an old table saw mechanism.

Oh well it beats a door stop.


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## BOOKER (Nov 30, 2009)

Trying cleaning the entire router and make certain that it is free of saw dust, dirt, and get that WD40 off the router. I had some of the same problems and had used WD40 and the motor would not stay in place.


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

BOOKER said:


> Trying cleaning the entire router and make certain that it is free of saw dust, dirt, and get that WD40 off the router. I had some of the same problems and had used WD40 and the motor would not stay in place.


So your saying yours is working fine now that you cleaned it and No more Slipping?


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## Barry99 (Feb 10, 2009)

I had similar problem with a new Craftsman router. Sometimes I did not lock lever in place, once the motor must have been max out on top cause after I lock it down, turn it up side down, motor moved. Take some scrap wood, have your manual and practice. Then when you think you can do it without the book. set everything up to route and just before you route, use a scrap piece first. 

Barry


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## larry t (Sep 8, 2007)

*crappy router*



JohnnyB60 said:


> This is happening way too many times and I’m about to smash this dang router to bits with a sledge.
> 
> Unfortunately it was just supposed to be a little quick little job only about a 12”long 3/8x3/8” cut. I spent a lot of time making sure it was tight but I think it dropped as soon as I turned it up side down. I felt a little extra pull right off but I figured it was because the bit was a little dull. Since it was supposed to be quick I went for it, then I saw it. Dang about $30 bucks worth of damage and about an 1-½ hour worth of work.:cray:
> 
> ...


 Why damage a good sledge,just ditch the craftsman I've had em b4 don't think much of craftsman anymore they used to be good


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## iamwelty2 (Dec 27, 2008)

I had the same problem with a Craftsman Router... couldn't tighten it tight enough... as I routed the bit height would fluctuate wildly... I bought a new router and never had the problem again. Recently upgraded to a Triton... SWEEEET!


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I’m going to have to just toss it, because I just don’t trust it anymore, and I’m afraid to use it. 

Maybe I can turn it into post hole digger since that’s what it does best.:sarcastic:


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## dougop (Jul 2, 2010)

I gave up completely on craftsmen routers after a similar problem- there were small individual steel ball bearings that would fall out between the base and motor...trash !


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## marlcam (Jan 5, 2011)

This problem sounds really annoying. I may have a similar issue. I'm going to try to replace the nut on the bolt holding locking lever. Nut on mine has the locking nylon insert that can only be tightened once and previous owner may have loosened it rendering it ineffective.

I just dismantled my 2nd hand Craftsman to unstick the depth adjustment. I added powder graphite lube and now the depth ring still moves when supposedly locked. 

I don't know if the graphite was a good idea or not.


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## REF (Mar 3, 2011)

JohnnyB60, if you still have this router I'll buy it, I have the same one but I can't find the collets.....
Thanks Ray


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## Greg-Lynn Haven (Mar 4, 2011)

*O-ring*



It too coincidental that this happened to you. I had the same problem myself and on TV yesterday I saw a program on routers and it had the same problem that you and I experienced. Here was the solution to their problem. Make sure that you have your shaft fitted for a 1/2 or 1/4 inch "O-ring" then mount your bit into the collette. The reason for this, as they explained, is though the shaft is straight there is a small flaring next to the cutting portion of the bit itself. I tried it and it worked perfectly.
Amazing!

Greg-Lynn Haven


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

REF said:


> JohnnyB60, if you still have this router I'll buy it, I have the same one but I can't find the collets.....
> Thanks Ray


Wow, that’s interesting. I would never have thought the collet would become obsolete. I thought they were pretty standard. I think I might have two ½” collets and I’ll have to search for it because I haven’t seen it in years. 

When I first bought this router, I didn’t have any ½” bits so for a long time I only used ¼” bits. When I finally bought a ½” bit I realized that I lost the collet and had to buy another one. A few months later I found the original collet under my work bench as I was moving stuff around. I’ll let you know latter if I find it.

Anyway I just got notice of the post today and I do still have the router and I have to think about selling it. It’s not that I don’t want to sell it, but it’s just the whole shipping thing and all that.  Plus I don’t even know what its worth. Let me think about, but I’ll look for the extra collet today and if you still need it we can work it out then.


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## REF (Mar 3, 2011)

Thanks Johnny, all I would need is the 1/2" collet with the left hand screw, Sears parts does not carry it any more.
Thanks Ray


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## Woodworker Shack (Nov 2, 2011)

Check and see if the clamp belt is really holding the motor to the base as it slides up and down till screwed on tight. Sounds like nothing wrong with the collet.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

JohnnyB60 said:


> This is happening way too many times and I’m about to smash this dang router to bits with a sledge.
> 
> Unfortunately it was just supposed to be a little quick little job only about a 12”long 3/8x3/8” cut. I spent a lot of time making sure it was tight but I think it dropped as soon as I turned it up side down. I felt a little extra pull right off but I figured it was because the bit was a little dull. Since it was supposed to be quick I went for it, then I saw it. Dang about $30 bucks worth of damage and about an 1-½ hour worth of work.:cray:
> 
> ...


Hi Johnny,

I sympathize with you and the problem you are having. When I first started out in woodworking I bought a Craftsman router and table combo only to have it do exactly as you described so I returned it and 4 routers later I got a return on my money and bought a good router. I guess they are cheap for a reason. 

BJ...Before you say it I know you are a big fan of Craftsman routers, but I am serious about the problems I had with the routers. They would absolutely fall when turned upside down in the table or I should say wouldn't adjust past a certain point without falling down 2 or 3 inches. The only table ready model I didn't try was the digital plunge router. In my defense I must say I didn't know much about routers back then and there may have been a fix I wasn't aware of at that time.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Sears did change manufactures. As far as I know they are not selling Ryobi built ones anymore. I have one of the newer ones and so far am quite impressed with it. Never have been too impressed with Ryobi stuff. That said, my 16-18 year old 3 1/2HP Craftsman/Ryobi is still running in my router table! I didn't know any better back then, but still can't complain about it too much!


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Oh I just now saw this and was surprised to see it going after so long, but the timing is right because I was just thinking about this router. The Craftsman router has been sitting in a box unused since I first posted this thread waiting for the day when I have a router table to permanently mount it to, well that day has arrived but it did not work in my plans. Instead I used a PC router because I could not adjust the height of the Craftsman. 

I would much rather use my PC for regular routing and not have it dedicated to the table. It just seems to be such a waste of a good router to just sit in a box. However the German router table video that was posted here earlier gave me some ideas about a lift. 

Anyway I haven’t given up on using it for something so I’m not ready to toss it just yet. I have a small scissor jack from an old car around here that might just work for the lift, if I could only find it. I used to know where everything was, but now it’s hard to remember what I do or used to have. :laugh:


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## dogtreadmil (Apr 25, 2012)

i like your post very much


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Last Chance - Need to Modify Cam Lock*

I took this router completely apart to see how I can make it work for my router table, but seeing it apart I decided that it’s not worth the trouble. I'm giving one more try as a regular router if I can keep it from slipping.

The cam locking design is the main problem and I give up trying to fix it. So now I’m now looking for a way to modify the cam lock design so it will actually tighten. 










I was thinking of modifying a Vertical Handle Hold down Toggle Clamp  and mounting it to the router base to lock it. Since the motor wall is plastic threads, I can't use a screw-in device.


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