# router used as a cutter on a lathe



## max gersenson (Sep 7, 2007)

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can a router be used as a cutting tool on a slow turning lathe?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A short answer would be yes. There are a couple of machines designed to work as a lathe that has been modified with some cables and pulleys. These machines get super results. I do not have any photos of the machines but I am sure one of our members will post some.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Max, the only use that I'm aware of where a router is used as a lathe cutting tool is to make spirals,flutes and barley twists, in which case an ordinary lathe is not used, but what is commonly called a router lathe where the router sits on a platform which is connected by a cable to the headstock, which has 36 index points and the router is moved along which rotates the headstock. The ratio of router movement to headstock rotation is altered by a stepped headstock pulley. For flutes, the cable is disconnected and the router traversed at the selected depth of cut, this is where the indexing comes in to decide how many flutes to cut. The distance between head and tail-stock is commonly a little over three feet.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

*W e l c o m e . . A b o a r d !!​*


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

max gersenson said:


> undefined
> 
> can a router be used as a cutting tool on a slow turning lathe?


I think ShopNotes just had a writeup on making mallets... for a round one, they made a small box with an open top, turned it upside down over a routertable router bit, and with a workpiece anchored like a BBQ Chicken, was rotated over the bit... Got it round! They even mounted the Bird with one end lower than than the other high end (slanted)... and they turned a slanted round mallet...

So, your answer is Yes... but, you don't have the tool pattern flexiblity that you have with a lathe!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Max

Yes,,,  On the forum you will see a plans to make a jig that you can use on Lathe but the norm would be the lathe would not be spining a item...

I guess you could turn on the lathe and the router but it maybe just a bit hairy, if the router bit jams in to the stock that the lathe is holding between two points....

Most of the time the jig would be used to put in flutes,slots,etc.

I guess you could turn the stock by hand (in the lathe) and it would be a bit safer..  and use a plunge type router bit like the ones below.

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/list.asp?d=20&p=1

Note,,, the bearning on the top and the bottom of the bit,this is needed to keep the bit true to the stock in the lathe

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/list.asp?d=22&p=1
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1342
one bearing type ▼
http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1272

You can use the search tool on the forum to find the plans, if you don't find them just ask and I will dig them up for you..

The jig is wooden frame that sides along on the bed of the lathe and holds the SMALL router motor in a wooden clamp jig. if I recall that right...
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add on below
I didn't find the URL link but I did find the PDF file that may help.
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add on ( CRAFTSMAN ROUTER CRAFTER )
http://search.ebay.com/router-crafter_W0QQfromZR40
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max gersenson said:


> undefined
> 
> can a router be used as a cutting tool on a slow turning lathe?


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

I use a "rounding jig" when I make flutes.... no, not like a fluted cylinder... I mean like flutes that you play. Musical instruments. Simple box jig with centers for the flute blank. Router on top. Turn by hand. Round flute. Done. 

Older pictures... router table is replaced, but the rounding jig is still in use today.
http://www.yardbird.net/album/Flute_shop/index.html

Keep It Simple .... and Be Safe


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> I use a "rounding jig" when I make flutes.... no, not like a fluted cylinder... I mean like flutes that you play. Musical instruments. Simple box jig with centers for the flute blank. Router on top. Turn by hand. Round flute. Done.
> 
> Older pictures... router table is replaced, but the rounding jig is still in use today.
> http://www.yardbird.net/album/Flute_shop/index.html
> ...


This is funny...
I went to your website expecting to see more jigs on cutting flutes... long grooves in boards or "INto flutes" with narrowed ends... for decoration cuts...

And I find it about making the musical instrument itself.. "Flute"!  

The first time I ever saw the makings of a musical flute!!

Very interesting!! :sold:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

What is the advantage of you're system compared to using a lathe?


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Harry-

MY system? Advantage? The only real advantage for ME is that I get nice round flutes. See.... I don't HAVE a lathe. And my current shop setup doesn't have room to put one. Heck, I have to pull my van out of the garage and move my table saw to run a 4x8 sheet through it.  I don't have a lot of power tools. Would be nice, but I'm a weekend wood butcher, y'know? Not a terrible thing I suppose. Gets those creative juices flowing.... "How the he** am I gonna do this without a <insert missing piece of expensive equipment here>?". The McGyver in you comes out and you solve it. Sometimes with great results. Sometimes with another piece of firewood on the stack.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I can't think of a better explanation than that! Do you make the flutes for sale, or are you a flautist and make variations for you're self or both.

In my days as an audio technician specialising in esoteric hi-fi equipment repairs, I used to play flute recordings whilst watching the output on an oscilloscope because of it's pure sine wave output, it made a change from using an audio frequency generator.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

I sell some.... I give some away... depends on a lot of things I guess. The flutes I make look like this:

http://www.yardbird.net/album/Flutes/slides/sm_3flutes.html

I make them in different keys and styles. Currently making them in the style of an old Lakota Sioux flutemaker who has retired and showed me the way his parents and grandparents and great-grandparents made them. To the best of my knowledge, he is the last one making them in this particular style. For him to teach me how to do it is an honor and a privilege. 

Anyways.... getting way off topic of the original poster. No lathe involved in making the flutes. Just a router.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> I sell some.... I give some away... depends on a lot of things I guess. The flutes I make look like this:
> 
> http://www.yardbird.net/album/Flutes/slides/sm_3flutes.html
> 
> ...


I'm curious how you make them...
Start with a long piece... 2 x 2 x 24 (thereabouts)
Cut it in half... route out centers of each piece & glue back together...
Drill holes where required... Route it round in jig...
Something like that?

I guess you know EXACT dimensions for everything... or the tones would be way OFF, etc.

Just curious... if you want to share it with us...


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Joe Lyddon said:


> I'm curious how you make them...
> Start with a long piece... 2 x 2 x 24 (thereabouts)
> Cut it in half... route out centers of each piece & glue back together...
> Drill holes where required... Route it round in jig...
> ...


Yes, actually, very much like that. The flute halves actually have 2 separate channels routed into them. One is long and completely open at the end. This is the large opening you see at teh end of the flute farthest away from the end you blow into.

the second channel is shorter and at the blown end. It is completely separated from the main channel (called the bore) by a solid wall. This shorter channel doesn't go all the way to the end. It becomes a chamber inside the flute until you drill about a 3/8" hole into it from the end. this is what you blow into. Of course at this point you have a flute that's a dead end. Now you need an "exit" hole for the air from that smaller chamber (called the "slow air chamber") so you burn a hole into the chamber tight against the wall separating the slow air chamber from the bore. You can drill this hole, but .... burning them through is more traditional. Sometimes I start with a dril and burn the hole to size just to speed things along a bit.

Now you can blow into the flute but the air just comes out and does nothing.  The sound mechanism is much like a whistle. So you need another hole in the flute, again tight against the wall separating the 2 chambers, but this time on the "bore" side. This hole must be very precisely shaped. Flush to the wall and straight on one side and ramped precisely on the opposite side. 

Now you have to get the air from one hole (where it's exiting the slow air chamber) and blowing across the ramped hole. You need to direct the air flow. So you route a channel just about 1/32" deep either into the flute body itself, or into the piece that you see tied on top (called a "bird"). Depends on what style flute you are making. When the air exits that 1/32" channel it must be a very calm stream of air so that channel has to be very smooth. And it has to blow across that second hole and the air stream has to be SPLIT by the ramp on the far side. this is what causes the whistle. Get it wrong and you have firewood and you start over. 

Now you have a tube that whistles. Always too long at this point. You bring it into tune at a specific key by shortening the bore. So you cut off enough of the tube until the note it plays is a nice solid G or E flat or whatever you were aiming for. After that comes the finger holes. You can have a flute with 6 holes ,if you want to tune it to a modern chromatic scale, or 5 holes for a more traditional pentatonic scale. Hole position and size are the primary factors in tuning a hole. You start small and burm it progressively larger until it's the note it's supposed to be. If position is too far off you're going to end up with a hole that's too large just trying to get that note so position is fairly critical. Minor adjustments can be made by undercutting the hole inside the bore at the leading edge, flaring the hole inside the bore, etc. Do this 5 or 6 times and you have a flute that's in tune to a recognizable scale. Do it wrong and you have firewood. 

You can also make a flute FOR someone. Using their own hand and arm measurements and knuckle spacing. This won't be in tune musically, but it is a spiritual flute made to play the sounds of a specific person. That's the way I was taught originally. I only tune flutes to modern scale because people want to play them with OTHER instruments ... like a friend with a guitar or something.

Had enough? hehehe.... bet you can't tell I like to talk about flutes. But now I've severely hijacked this thread and I do apologize.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thank you for that interesting and fascinating explanation, this forum covers a lot of ground.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> Had enough? hehehe.... bet you can't tell I like to talk about flutes. But now I've severely hijacked this thread and I do apologize.


*WOW!!*

I had no idea it involved SO MUCH!

I will appreciate every flute I see from now on!!

I have a niece that used to play a flute... she was pretty good... years ago.

I thought you were the one that started this thread... guess not... But, we're still on topic... using a router to make a flute round!  

OK, one more... (maybe...)

How about the wood... does one type of wood 'sound' / work better than others?

The Finish... do you finish the inside, moisture proof? How do you finish the outside?

Thank you very much for your insight... What an education we're getting here!!


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Joe Lyddon said:


> I have a niece that used to play a flute... she was pretty good... years ago.


Metal flutes like you see in an orchestra or band are called "transverse flutes" in that you blow ACROSS them. What I'm building are end-blown flutes. 



Joe Lyddon said:


> OK, one more... (maybe...)
> 
> How about the wood... does one type of wood 'sound' / work better than others?


I use western red cedar a lot. It's a traditional material and easy to work with. Wood does make a difference, but that's part of the fun. I learned not to use oak though. It's like a bundle of little tiny drinking straws. Leaks air like crazy. 



Joe Lyddon said:


> The Finish... do you finish the inside, moisture proof? How do you finish the outside?


Waterproofing the inside is pretty important. No big secret that wood is affected by moisture and temperature. Your warm, moist breath being blown into a flute will condense into liquid. Especially if you play on cool autumn mornings or evenings. In the slow air chamber I usually pour "finishing epoxy". A 2-part clear epoxy that's very thin. I used it in my modeling days when building radio controlled airplanes. Not only impervious to moisture, but also airplane fuel! 

The bore isn't quite as critical. And I have been doing the bore and the outside of the flute with pure tung oil mixed with a citrus-based solvent. This is not the tung oil you can buy at the Borg for furniture finishing. That has petroleum distillates mixed into it and is probably only a faint reminder of actual tung oil. The finish with tung oil and citrus solvent that I'm using is completely non-toxic. A baby could chew on one of my flutes and not be harmed. Let's face it... if I'm putting it in my mouth, I'd prefer not to expose myself to chemicals that could be harmful. 

I have used other finishes on request if someone wants a particularly shiney flute. Those might get polyurethane or better yet, get submerged completely into a PVC tube full of slightly thinned shellac over night and then hung to dry.

I prefer the natural finishes. And if I sand them very well (I often take them to an 800 grit. They'll shine pretty well with the tung oil followed a few days later by a waxing.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> Metal flutes like you see in an orchestra or band are called "transverse flutes" in that you blow ACROSS them. What I'm building are end-blown flutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*That's truly VERY INTERESTING...* and I never realized there was so much science in building a Flute! It's a lot more than taking a piece of bamboo & poking holes in it, etc.!  

*Thank you again for teaching us how you Rounded your flutes with a Router as well as the insights of what is required to actually build a Flute!!

A FANTASTIC quick education on the subject!*


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