# Advice on Mounting New Incra Table Top



## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi Guys,
Well I just got my new Incra 25" Range LS Super System with 27" x 43" Router Table and Stand on Friday for Father's Day.
I have a new Incra Mast-R-Lift II Router Lift to go into my new Incra Router Table System. I'll be using my Bosch 1617EVS Router in my lift.
I've done a initial assembly of the metal and Aluminum Incra stand for the table system, but I haven't as yet mounted the Incra Table top to the stand. Instructions says to use the (12) #10 x 3/4" Phillips Pan Head screws to fasten the table top to the metal stand.

I really don't like the idea of using these wood screws to fasten my table top to the stand. So my question is: Could I use some #10-24 Brass inserts and some #10-24 x 3/4" long bolts to fasten the table top to the metal stand?
My thoughts are to lay the table top on the floor upside down, and carefully position the metal frame on it, then use a transfer punch to mark the 9 hole locations. Then use a new Brad point bit with a depth stop collar on it to bore clean holes through the melamine into the MDF core, then insert Brass #10-24 inserts, then use #10-24 x 3/4" long bolts to fasten the table top.

What do you think, or what do you recommend?

Larry B


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

What does "melamine" consist? is it particle board w/ melamine surface like melamine shelving? The sheets of melamine I have bought were a particle board. I have never used inserts in it before. We used to insert them in dadoes and glue and clamp them, but the tops we always screwed from below as I remember. But this is a different situation.

I am sure there is an answer.
Herb


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I agree with your concerns. MDF does not take screws well and if you go too deep, you could dimple the surface or cause a bulge.

I just use gravity to hold it in place. With the weight of the top itself, the router, plate\lift, fence, etc. all I am worried about is it sliding in a horizontal direction. I glued some blocks to the bottom that hold it snuggly in the frame of my table but nothing really keeping it from being pulled up.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Thanks for the initial replies guys. I'm not sure what the exact material Incra Tools uses to surface their 1 1/2" thick MDF Router Tables with. Is it melamine, arborite, plastic laminate?
Perhaps someone can answer this for me. Hopefully some of the other router gurus will chime in here and give me some good advice on what fasteners to use to attach my new Incra router table to the Incra metal stand.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

For MDF they have that furniture screw with the fast thread and no taper on the shank. They also use inserts and the large head furniture machine screw in 1/4" or 4mm diam.

Herb


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Nice setup Larry, hope you like it! I'm by no means an experienced woodworker, nor do I have any experience with the system you are assembling. From my engineering background I'd recommend that you follow the manufacturers assembly instructions, but if the holes aren't already pre-drilled I would definitely do that first. If you do that, and there's a problem, you have the recourse of filing a warranty claim. I'm only guessing here, but I'm betting that Incra would do the right thing. Having said that, using an insert would be a good way to go if installed properly. Just make sure that you use an insert that is designed for the MDF core of the table.

Best of Luck,

Jeff


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Nice setup Larry, hope you like it! I'm by no means an experienced woodworker, nor do I have any experience with the system you are assembling. From my engineering background I'd recommend that you follow the manufacturers assembly instructions, but if the holes aren't already pre-drilled I would definitely do that first. If you do that, and there's a problem, you have the recourse of filing a warranty claim. I'm only guessing here, but I'm betting that Incra would do the right thing. Having said that, using an insert would be a good way to go if installed properly. Just make sure that you use an insert that is designed for the MDF core of the table.
> 
> Best of Luck,
> 
> Jeff


Thanks Jeff. Good advice.
There are 8 pre-drilled holes for mounting the Incra LS Positioner. But there's no pre-marked or pre-drilled holes on the bottom of the router table for the supplied (12) #10 x 3/4" long Phillips pan head wood screws.
I have some 1/4-20 Brass Insert Nuts from Lee Valley Tools > Description: 'With knife-edge external threads for a secure hold, the insert nuts require a 3/8" pre-drilled hole.' 
I was thinking of using a brand new 3/8" brad point drill bit with a stop collar and pre-drill these 3/8" x 3/4" deep holes in the bottom of the Incra router table and a very slight chamfer on the outer edge of the laminate holes, then hand thread the 1/4-20 Brass inserts into these holes, then use 1/4-20 Machine screws or Socket Head screws to screw into the 1/4-20 Brass Inserts in the underside of the router table. 
My thoughts are to test this out on some scrap pieces of the same thickness MDF first.
What do you think?


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## abbedo (Nov 28, 2008)

*Incra Table Top Mounting*

I have the same setup that I have been using for about 2 years now. I did not attach the table top to the stand. Once you have the router mounted and the weight of the table top you will not have any problems with the top moving on you. Give this a try first and see how you like it. You can always drill holes later on if not satisfied.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Larry.... Excellent choice of a router table... I've had one now for some 6 years or so without a single problem of any kind to speak of. The top itself is per Incra's website: Horizontal-grade high pressure laminate is applied to the top and bottom of the MDF core using heat and 100,000 pounds of pressure for a balanced, stable construction. 
My top has been mounted to a homemade cabinet using only wood screws. All screw holes were pre-drilled. As I recall, I wasn't stingy when it came to the number of screws used. 6 yrs later, absolutely no issues. I also used brass inserts to mount the base of the LS to the back side of my top for easy removal. 4 inserts were used, here again, without any issues. I think its safe to say that you can go ahead with whatever your comfortable with. If using inserts gives you peace of mind...have at it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Larry I wonder if phoning Incra directly could answer your composition questions and mounting ideas . There very friendly , but I don't know how much they know technically.

I'm glueing a torsion box to mine , so in my case I'll be scewing the torsion box ribs to the cabinet


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have the same table,but it was assembled before I bought it. I love it , haven't had any problems with the table itself or lift. 
I think you are on the right track with the inserts you have.
Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Quote: Horizontal-grade high pressure laminate is applied to the top and bottom of the MDF core using heat and 100,000 pounds of pressure for a balanced, stable construction. Quote:

Rick there you go, that is how you get a flat MDF table top. LOL

Herb


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I dunno, if it's MDF, it can take simple wood screws just fine. 6 to 8 should do it just fine. You really only need them to keep the top from moving around. You won't be putting that much stress on it. You can use the inserts but they really won't be adding that much. Note that if you are going to route slots in the table top, you should probably do that before you put in the screws (or take them out before routing).


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> I agree with your concerns. MDF does not take screws well and if you go too deep, you could dimple the surface or cause a bulge.
> 
> I just use gravity to hold it in place. With the weight of the top itself, the router, plate\lift, fence, etc. all I am worried about is it sliding in a horizontal direction. I glued some blocks to the bottom that hold it snuggly in the frame of my table but nothing really keeping it from being pulled up.


Did you by chance take any photos of the wood blocks that you glued to the bottom of your Incra router table? Did you use 4 or 6 blocks? If the blocks were MDF, did you use Titebond melamine glue to glue them to the underside of the table?
I have a lot of great Woodworking Books, but I think I need a good book on Screws, Bolts, and fasteners for woodworkers.
Doesn't Festool use threaded metal inserts in their MFT-3 Tables?


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Stargate said:


> ... I was thinking of using a brand new 3/8" brad point drill bit with a stop collar and pre-drill these 3/8" x 3/4" deep holes in the bottom of the Incra router table and a very slight chamfer on the outer edge of the laminate holes, then hand thread the 1/4-20 Brass inserts into these holes, then use 1/4-20 Machine screws or Socket Head screws to screw into the 1/4-20 Brass Inserts in the underside of the router table.
> My thoughts are to test this out on some scrap pieces of the same thickness MDF first.
> What do you think?


A test sample is a very good way to go Larry. Be sure to check both thickness and flatness above and below the insert. 
My biggest worry about using inserts is the potential for displacement when threading it into the MDF. The cumulative blade thickness may tend to distort the surface as it pushes its way through the MDF.
I like timbertailor's use of blocks glued to the underside to prevent lateral movement. You'd just need 4 blocks, one in each direction. Position of the blocks wouldn't be that important as long as you have both axis well constrained.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> A test sample is a very good way to go Larry. Be sure to check both thickness and flatness above and below the insert.
> My biggest worry about using inserts is the potential for displacement when threading it into the MDF. The cumulative blade thickness may tend to distort the surface as it pushes its way through the MDF.
> I like timbertailor's use of blocks glued to the underside to prevent lateral movement. You'd just need 4 blocks, one in each direction. Position of the blocks wouldn't be that important as long as you have both axis well constrained.


I'm hoping timber has some photos of how he did the glued on blocks for his router table.
I share your concerns about_ 'the potential for displacement when threading it into the MDF. The cumulative blade thickness may tend to distort the surface as it pushes its way through the MDF'._ 
What do you think of the idea of using a wood tap to tap the MDF to take the 10-24 threaded bolt or cap screw, like Pat Warner does with a lot of his MDF fasteners - Warner's Magazine


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Stargate said:


> ... What do you think of the idea of using a wood tap to tap the MDF to take the 10-24 threaded bolt or cap screw, like Pat Warner does with a lot of his MDF fasteners - Warner's Magazine


I still think that 3/4" wood screws, pre-drilled, is the way to go. Gluing blocks to lock it in place would be my second choice. In stead of threading in inserts, you could consider inserting hardwood dowels into the bottom where you want screws. Then you'll be screwing into hardwood. So many choices, any of which should work well.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> I still think that 3/4" wood screws, pre-drilled, is the way to go. Gluing blocks to lock it in place would be my second choice. In stead of threading in inserts, you could consider inserting hardwood dowels into the bottom where you want screws. Then you'll be screwing into hardwood. So many choices, any of which should work well.


Jeff,
I agree, inserting hardwood dowels into the bottom where I want screws is another good option. If I choose this option, I'd still do a test in a scrap piece of MDF first.

Larry B


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Stargate said:


> Did you by chance take any photos of the wood blocks that you glued to the bottom of your Incra router table? Did you use 4 or 6 blocks? If the blocks were MDF, did you use Titebond melamine glue to glue them to the underside of the table?
> I have a lot of great Woodworking Books, but I think I need a good book on Screws, Bolts, and fasteners for woodworkers.
> Doesn't Festool use threaded metal inserts in their MFT-3 Tables?


I am moving otherwise I would run out to the shop and take photos. It has my drawer lumber stacked on top of it right now. 

I used 6 blocks. They were some scrap hardwood I had laying around and I used Some Titebond II wood glue. Two on each of the long sides and one on each short end. Better they are a little lose and shimmed to fit better. It would be a lot of extra work to try to shave them down after they are installed to fit perfect.

I too have a torsion box table so the blocks fit between the ribs.

I believe Festool does use the inserts, just like Incra and Woodpeckers. I do not use the MFT.

I built my own assembly\work table.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> I am moving otherwise I would run out to the shop and take photos. It has my drawer lumber stacked on top of it right now.
> 
> I used 6 blocks. They were some scrap hardwood I had laying around and I used Some Titebond II wood glue. Two on each of the long sides and one on each short end. Better they are a little lose and shimmed to fit better. It would be a lot of extra work to try to shave them down after they are installed to fit perfect.
> 
> ...


Brad,
That is one fine looking assembly table you have there.
I just had another thought / possible option for my Incra Router Table. I have a roll of this Item C - 12" x 36" High Friction peal and stick rubber sheet from Lee Valley Tools - Bench Pucks® - Lee Valley Tools .
I measured the top of the red Incra metal stand as 15" x 1 1/8" and 33" x 1 1/8". I could easily cut strips of this 1" wide and peal and stick the strips to the top of the Incra red metal router table frame, then just position and set the Incra router table top on top of this anti slip rubber strips. This is the same type material as used in Rockler and Bench Dog Bench Cookies.
What do you think? Crazy idea? Or maybe it's a good idea?
I also have the Incra Wheel kit - INCRA Precision Fence :: Router System Accessories :: INCRA Wheel Kit to go on my Incra router table system.

Larry B


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Stargate said:


> Brad,
> That is one fine looking assembly table you have there.
> I just had another thought / possible option for my Incra Router Table. I have a roll of this Item C - 12" x 36" High Friction peal and stick rubber sheet from Lee Valley Tools - Bench Pucks® - Lee Valley Tools .
> I measured the top of the red Incra metal stand as 15" x 1 1/8" and 33" x 1 1/8". I could easily cut strips of this 1" wide and peal and stick the strips to the top of the Incra red metal router table frame, then just position and set the Incra router table top on top of this anti slip rubber strips. This is the same type material as used in Rockler and Bench Dog Bench Cookies.
> ...


Worth a try IMO. Not like it is not reversible.

Even gluing blocks on are reversible. Just cut them off and no loss for wear.


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