# My Sharks broken? Help!!!!



## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi, 

Just purchased a CNC Shark Pro from Rockler in the States, and it seems to be broken? it just seems to jam sometimes on the X axis and then start cutting the right pattern, but in the wrong place when it travels back? Just ruined an electric guitar body, and the though of switchin it on again scares the hell out of me. Any ideas?


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

krayon said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just purchased a CNC Shark Pro from Rockler in the States, and it seems to be broken? it just seems to jam sometimes on the X axis and then start cutting the right pattern, but in the wrong place when it travels back? Just ruined an electric guitar body, and the though of switchin it on again scares the hell out of me. Any ideas?


Scratch that... you did say it was the PRO. So I would assume you are talking about the axis that the entire gantry runs along (lead screw under the table)? In which case, there are a number of possible issues. Though the unit may be defective, there are a number of things that you should check. The first would be debris on either the linear bearing rails, or the lead screws. Any type of debris could cause a hang up in the system that the small motors cannot overcome. You could also check for misalignment which could cause the same type of hang up in the system. Then you should also make sure that all of the drive/guide components are properly lubricated.

The symptoms of your machine sound like you are having a problem that is inherent to underpowered stepper motors. My initial thought is that the unit isn't broken. There are other things that could be happening, but I would start with those things, just to rule out something simple. Hope this helps.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Blurrycustoms, if it is the weaker stepper motors would reducing the depth of cut and increasing passes fix the problem?


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

I couldn't tell from the initial post, but if the "jamming" occurred during the cut, then yes, a light cut may also be a solution. We would need more details. Also, if the jamming occurred during the cut, you may try a smaller tool, make sure the tool is very sharp, etc, to reduce the force required by the motors.

From the reviews I have read on that machine, they don't seem to have a problem with the steppers during normal operation, so I would assume first the something is causing a hang up in the drive system. Again, more details would also help to diagnose.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Mike.


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi guys,

thanks very much for all the suggestions. Sorry if i was a little vague in details....

The router is jamming whilst moving from one area of a cut to another and whilst cutting material, so i dont think its to do with the depth of our passes, it even jammed once when doing a 2 mil pass in foam!!!! It seems to be jamming on the threaded bar moving the router left to right on the gantry, not the rails under the bed itself. The threaded bar sometimes seems to vibrate up and down(makes a funny noise, and wobbles up and down, as if it were slightly out of line, but im not sure how to check? Also, the machine is brand new, and although some of the pieces we have cut have caused a lot of debris, we have always been on hand to vacuum it off the tracks and threads every half hour or so. Should this be sufficient for clearing any debris?

Thanks again.:no:


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Trying to add photos of the damage, hope this works.


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

krayon said:


> Trying to add photos of the damage, hope this works.


Wobbling and vibration is a good indication of some misalignment between your linear rails, and lead screw. If both ends of the lead screw have non-adjustable mounting options, than it may be a manufacturing defect. If you can post some pictures of the lead screws mounts, on each end, that would help to determine if it can be easily realigned.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Mike

I'm to sure why you are trying to fix a NEW machine,,I would suggest you call Rockler and ask them what you should do with this dud..

You want it to be right from the get go,it's not your error,I don't think..

I'm almost sure they will say return it and get one more..I know it's a PITA BUT you want it to be right..you should not have that type of error..

I will say the error maybe in the bit you are trying to use,it's not a plunge bit..it maybe jamming the machine..

PreciseBIT Counterboart Channel Cutters
MLCS solid carbide router bits


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krayon said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just purchased a CNC Shark Pro from Rockler in the States, and it seems to be broken? it just seems to jam sometimes on the X axis and then start cutting the right pattern, but in the wrong place when it travels back? Just ruined an electric guitar body, and the though of switchin it on again scares the hell out of me. Any ideas?


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

Here's a quick link to Rockler's customer service.

Rockler.com Customer Service


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Hey,

Thanks again for the help, I have contacted Rockler and was referred to the troubleshooting section on their website, which didnt seem to have a clear solution? I also informed them of an apparent bend in the lower stainless steel bar that i noticed this morning on closer inspection. They told me they had forwarded my mails to the manufacturer and could help me no further! I also contacted the manufacturer (Next Wave Automation,) directly to see if they had received the mails from Rockler and inform them of the troubles. But am yet to hear back from them. Wish i knew what else to try??????


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

If the linear rail is bent than they will need to replace it.

I'm curious, did you have to assemble this machine yourself?


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

I only had to fix the gantry to the base unit. 12 bolts in total i think. Hope i can get it replaced ok....


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

krayon said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just purchased a CNC Shark Pro from Rockler in the States, and it seems to be broken? it just seems to jam sometimes on the X axis and then start cutting the right pattern, but in the wrong place when it travels back? Just ruined an electric guitar body, and the though of switchin it on again scares the hell out of me. Any ideas?


Mike,

After looking at your pictures and considering the cutters you are using - I beleive teh following.

1 - wrong style cutter. Use an end mill, right hand spiral "upcut" 2 flutes, solid carbide

2 - don't take as deep a cut as you are taking. I beleive you are using Vectric V-Carve. You can "edit tool" in the tool path mode - take much lighter passes, like .2 inches depth per pass, and cut your feed rate down to about 30 IPM. At least start there - then move up from that point.


BUT - maybe - there IS a problem with the machine. When NOT cutting anything - does the machine jam??

On my machine - I use paste wax on the rails, AND on the screws. You do NOT want to lubricate with anything liquid ar anything that the wood dust will stick to.

So - air blast to super clean everything and carefully paste wax all the works.

Definately try my recommendations on tooling and cutting parameters.

That cutter you show in your pics takes a LOT LOT of power to push it through a cut - especially a deep cut. I definately would NOT use that cutter on my machine. And my machine is bigger and more powerful than the shark.

Leo


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Holy crap I did not notice that bit. A bit like that you need at least a 2 - 1/2hp unit to work properly with cnc, don't you? And some strong steppers I would imagine/.


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## davidbarr (Apr 28, 2009)

I have a cnc here at home that I built. I had the same type of problem wit it. Does make a kinda grinding sound when it pauses? If it does that probably means that your stepper motor is skipping steps. That would explain why it takes of again in a different location. Your motor basically turns circular motion into linear motion. If it skips steps it therfore thinks it has move when it actully hasn't. My problem was with my lead screw. It was in a bind. Try this. Run your gantry up and down the axis at different speeds. It will probably hang at faster speeds. You should have MDI mode on your Controlling software. This is where you would manually enter G-code. Use this code to help you trouble shoot. It will allow you to walk around the machine and visually inspect it while it is moving.
G21
G1 X24 F25.
G1 X-24 F25.
M99

G21 tells the machine that it will move incrementally. That is it will move x amount of inches or mm then stop as opposed to absolutly where it moves to an X or Y location.

G1 X24 tells the machine how far you want to move. If you only have 12 inches of actuall movement replace the 24 with 12. If the bind is in the Y axis replace X for Y

F25 means feed at 25 inches per min. change accordingly to whichever feed rate you wish to check at.

M99 basically means repeat pogram till I tell you to stop.

Note: Be sure to put the machine at its farthest most in the negative quadrant of your work envelope before you run the program.

This is how I found and fixed my problem maybe it will help you.


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## davidbarr (Apr 28, 2009)

Oops. Use G91 instead of G21. That is the correct code for an incremental move.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

does the manufacturer have a technical support? it may be a wise idea to calll them. 

most reputable companies have a great support group. if they dont i would take it back to rockler. all of the top brand name companies ive ever dealt with have great customer service and technical support. i admit i know nothing about cnc machines, but know if i spent that kind of dough, id want to talk to someone there that could tell you how to correct any mistakes.

just my humble opinion.


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## thrasyllus (Jul 25, 2009)

I bought a Shark CNC before Rockler picked it up. Tim Owens was adversing these on eBay. I am very pleased with it which I use to make violin plates and scrolls.

Your problem sounds like what I found when the Shark was delivered. I discovered that all of the couplers between the stepper motors and threaded shafts had worked loose. The X shaft came loose because the gantry weight shifted in shipping. So did the Z coupler. The Y coupler also slipped and needed to be reseated to take up the motor drive shaft slack. Grab the gantry and force it to see if it moves; it shouldn't.

Hope this helps.

Mike


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi Guys,

It's been a while since i last posted, and thought i should let you know where im upto with the problem.... It turns out that we had our feed rates set a little too high in 3d cut, and this was causing the jamming i first told you about, however since realizing this another problem has come to my attention, which is that when the machine is running on all three axis, the entire unit shakes, causing a sort of dotted line affect across the material, not sure whats causing this, but the machine behaves in the way when no material is being cut (just a dry run) any ideas what it could be?

Mike


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## thrasyllus (Jul 25, 2009)

You may not be using constant velocity cutting.

Mike


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## krayon (Apr 19, 2009)

Sorry Mike, what do you mean by constant velocity cutting?


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## thrasyllus (Jul 25, 2009)

From the Mach 3 Manual:

_In exact stop mode, the machine stops briefly at the end of each programmed move. In constant velocity mode, sharp corners of the path may be rounded slightly so that the feed rate may be kept up. These modes are to allow the user to control the compromise involved in turning corners because a real machine has a finite acceleration due to the inertia of its mechanism._

Google for more on this.

Best,
Mike


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## artezz (Nov 9, 2010)

After seening the pics. I`d switch bits, see if this helps and slow down your speed keep the router speed up. Check conections in the black boe. I had a loose contion on my new machine. and chex the quik disconects they to can come loose in shiping mine did. I caught the wire ties made sure that all conetions were thight those in the direction were your machine is causing the trouble. Then replace wire ties. After hours of use I have found that these can loosen due to some vibration if your table is not real stable. Best of luck enjoy your machine I know I have. Yes use the contact link in the above message.


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## artezz (Nov 9, 2010)

Mna my spellin sucks today, hands not working sorry thats (box nor boe and cut,not caught)


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## artezz (Nov 9, 2010)

I give up I`m going back to bed


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## thrasyllus (Jul 25, 2009)

I have been running a Shark for four years. Last year I noticed that the x-axis started to develop a load chatter much like what you described. It turned out to be wood dust in the bearing which I cleaned with WD-40.

To troubleshoot, release the coupler (unscrew the set screw) between the shaft and screw shaft. See if the carriage moves freely, smoothly by hand. Lubricate with WD-40.

BTW, I had major problems in starting my Shark. Shipping vibrations loosened two shaft couplers.

You might want to also inspect your cables and connectors.


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## thrasyllus (Jul 25, 2009)

thrasyllus said:


> I have been running a Shark for four years. Last year I noticed that the x-axis started to develop a load chatter much like what you described. It turned out to be wood dust in the bearing which I cleaned with WD-40.
> 
> To troubleshoot, release the coupler (unscrew the set screw) between the shaft and screw shaft. See if the carriage moves freely, smoothly by hand. Lubricate with WD-40.
> 
> ...


On second thought, do not release the coupler. Just jog back and forth. Also, you should be bale to turn the thread shaft by hand when the stepper is not powered.


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