# Which aluminum channels to secure fence to table



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I think I'm going to kibosh using my Incra router table top for my table saws extention and build it from scratch .
At the prices of material I won't be saving money but building the top and fence from scratch will be a great learning experience and it will fit my table saw better and look cleaner .

Which would be the best way to secure the fence down as I see people typically route or dado a channel in the table top and use some kinda of aluminum channel . I also need to source something for a miter slot and channel for the fence to hold feather boards . 

Would this be overkill going with this Kregs work table channel to secure the fence? 

http://www.amazon.ca/Kreg-KKS1020-K...F8&qid=1431804232&sr=8-33&keywords=kreg+tools


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok then there's this stuff from Incra . A cheaper alternative but I'm not trying to cheap out really . Just want to do it once , plus I'm thinking with the Kreg that I can use them to secure other things to the table while I'm not routing.

http://www.amazon.ca/INCRA-TTRACKPL...ie=UTF8&qid=1431805541&sr=8-21&keywords=Incra



Ok here's the stuff here I think. 
http://www.amazon.ca/INCRA-Miter-Ch...ie=UTF8&qid=1431805943&sr=8-27&keywords=Incra


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok then there's this stuff from Incra


that's the ticket...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick; it's Aluminum extrusion...the operative word being 'extrusion'. Every piece you buy will be precisely the same as the last piece. You're over-thinking this.
http://www.tufftooth.com/images/aluminum-t-track.jpg


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

Both of them are nice tracks but one is a t track, that one is mainly used in the Kreg clamping table and the other is a miter slot. Both are usable. I bought a single track that has both from Peachtree for my router table.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry, that's a very annoying website to copy from. It's a Cdn. company...
Google the Co. name , then click on Bandsaw Parts as in the pic below. It's one of those sites where you can see what you want but it doesn't have a specific URL


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'll be damned! Same price at Lee Valley...
Veritas® T-Slot Tracks (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That's almost _1/2 the price_ as that Incra material at Amazon, Rick. It's _just Aluminum extrusion_....but I repeat myself.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> That's almost _1/2 the price_ as that Incra material at Amazon, Rick. It's _just Aluminum extrusion_....but I repeat myself.


Thanks for the input guys  

Dan geez you'd think I'd know this by now but I didn't . That's exactly what I'm looking for , with the T nuts and all .


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

That's a great price on the extrusions at Lee Valley Dan, thanks.

Rick, a salesman at Woodcraft gave me what I think is some good advice. He said to pick one brand and stay with it. Sometimes an attach that works with one manufacturers extrusion, won't fit in a competitors. I do know that the Incra track will also accept standard 1/4 20 bolts with a 7/16" head. Those are a lot cheaper, and easier to find, than T-bolts.

Typically I would just route a T-slot right into the face of a fixture or jig, like I did in the attach on my router fence pieces. But when building something more permanent, I like using the extruded aluminum. They work really well on my drill-press table too!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

fire65 said:


> Both of them are nice tracks but one is a t track, that one is mainly used in the Kreg clamping table and the other is a miter slot. Both are usable. I bought a single track that has both from Peachtree for my router table.


I got this one for my table and will be installing it fairly soon.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Here in Canada you always check Lee Valley first Rick. It's an unwritten rule, I'm sure of it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Here in Canada you always check Lee Valley first Rick. It's an unwritten rule, I'm sure of it.


here too...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> I got this one for my table and will be installing it fairly soon.


Thank Phil as I want one of them too.I'm a believer in having a miter slot if it's at all possible.
Of course they don't have them on Amazon Canada


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

PhilBa said:


> I got this one for my table and will be installing it fairly soon.


 That is the same one I am using. Just got it today, hopefully will get it installed this week.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I found one at leevalley from Kreg . Better than nothing I guess 

Kreg® Traksâ„¢ - Lee Valley Tools


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I found one at leevalley from Kreg . Better than nothing I guess
> 
> Kreg® Traksâ„¢ - Lee Valley Tools


Ouch, that's about a buck an inch. I guess that with the added versatility and convenience it will bring to your table it's worth it in the long run.

I found this one at Woodpeckers for about half the price. I kind of like the attachment method with this one as well.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Ouch, that's about a buck an inch. I guess that with the added versatility and convenience it will bring to your table it's worth it in the long run.
> 
> I found this one at Woodpeckers for about half the price. I kind of like the attachment method with this one as well.


Jeff I like that one much better and when I seen it earlier Lee Valley doesn't stock it . 
I should try and source it in Canada . Tell you the truth I like the bolt system as opposed to screws , so that's why I liked my first post with the Kreg for the slots to secure the fence


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I found one in Canada , imagine that! Actually I've bought from these guys before and had good results . Debating to buy three and use them to secure the fence down to . Gotta order more stuff as its free shipping over $100 .
Guess I need aluminum track for the fence to so that will help 

Woodpeckers Combo Track 32" CT32 | Elite Tools


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Google is your friend . . . except at 2AM.

Glad you found a better solution Rick, now go build it! It didn't happen if there aren't any PICS!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Google is your friend . . . except at 2AM.
> 
> Glad you found a better solution Rick, now go build it! It didn't happen if there aren't any PICS!


I'm with you there Jeff. 
I'm going to order parts today and get this started . Looking forward to building the fence too.
I'm fairly confident I can do a nice job on this build , but the Formica is going to make me a little nervous . Hopefully you can't glue a piece of Formica and end up with an uneven surface ? 
Could do melamine but it's to soft IMO . Could be used for replaceable fence faces though I guess


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Hopefully you can't glue a piece of Formica and end up with an uneven surface ? "

You bet your sweet bippy you can! To repeat another oldie, 'Plan your work and work your plan'.
It's critical that the laminate goes down like unrolling it..._you do not want to trap a bubble_, or let any part touch the other side before it's supposed to. *shudders at memory*.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "Hopefully you can't glue a piece of Formica and end up with an uneven surface ? "
> 
> You bet your sweet bippy you can! To repeat another oldie, 'Plan your work and work your plan'.
> It's critical that the laminate goes down like unrolling it..._you do not want to trap a bubble_, or let any part touch the other side before it's supposed to. *shudders at memory*.


tru dat.

But the good news is it's not hard to do it right. Lots of good youtube videos on that topic.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Hey Guys I watched a YouTube video on laminating last night and seen some important tips . Use pieces of wood underneith so you can pull them out one at a time as you work from one side to the next .
The guy was using what looked like a paint roller to apply the glue . From memory the contact glue I used I did with a brush which would create inconsistencies ? 
what he was using looked a lot thinner and watery than contact cement though


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Now would this one horse town I call home have white arborite in stock ?
Doubtful lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok we have white arborite in town . What's with that? Anyways it's 44 bucks a sheet . Wish they had a damaged sheet I could buy cheaper as I'm only using 1/4 of it . Guess I'll have lots to spare for future tables and fences 

Not sure what you guys call it but I'm referring to that stuff they glue on counter tops


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

You can use strips of p-lam instead of wood too. The main thing is get it laid on there and line it up then remove the center strip first then work out from there. When you get it all laid down roll it with a hard rubber laminate roller to make sure you get even distribution of the glue underneath. And roll it from the center towards the edges to not trap any air bubbles like Dan said. You can do it, Rick, once you start don't stop, keep going. Good luck.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick; Yes, on the 'laminate' for short. *H*igh *P*ressure *L*aminate...HPL.
When you order it, they generally ask you if you want _'post forming grade' or 'general purpose'_. The GP is a little thicker.
That $44 was for a 4x8 sheet? That's a decent price...I just paid $48 last week for a 4x8 (white also).
*Heads up type warning: Do a MAJOR clean up before you start working with it. One small sawdust chip, which you don't notice and which gets sandwiched, will punch right through the laminate when you roll it out.*
Beg, borrow, or buy a proper laminate roller! For small pieces you can get away with a block of wood and a mallet, but if you're doing bigger pieces the roller is essential as Herb explained.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow Dan I never considered the wood chip scenario . Good call ,but major clean up :lol:


Gotta source me a good roller now


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

In a pinch you can use a rolling pin. Just don't let her see you using it though...


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

fire65 said:


> Both of them are nice tracks but one is a t track, that one is mainly used in the Kreg clamping table and the other is a miter slot. Both are usable. I bought a single track that has both from Peachtree for my router table.


Actually, the Kregg track is just like any one else's dual purpose track except they use a larger track size for their proprietary clamps. They reverse its installation so that they can get more bolts to hold down the track without twisting or pulling free.

I worked around that but its good stuff. You want to be able to bolt these tracks down, not screw them in the top, if you want to use if for clamps like Kregg. They are powerful and will easily pull out screw in track.

Woodpecker sells several options too. Incra has some combination track. Keep poking around until you find what suits your plans.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Wow Dan I never considered the wood chip scenario . Good call ,but major clean up :lol:
> 
> 
> Gotta source me a good roller now


Yeah, that is the most common mistake a little piece of sawdust looks like a chunk of firewood after the fact and you can't get it out. Sawdust can stick to the back of the sheet too by static e. Or get on the glue roller unnoticed.
Another is a nail head or screw head that doesn't get counter sunk a little more than flush.
How are you rough cutting the sheet? I use a laminate knife that you can get at any hardware store, it is a hook knife with a "v" carbide chip brazed to the tip for cutting along a straightedge. Run a mill file down the cut edge as it is sharp and wear gloves you will be glad you did.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb I was going to use my utility knife to scar the laminate . I could certainly invest in the proper one though.
And good point about the gloves


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Yeah, that is the most common mistake a little piece of sawdust looks like a chunk of firewood after the fact and you can't get it out. Sawdust can stick to the back of the sheet too by static


Geez Herb I'm going to have to rent a paint booth lol :fie:






timbertailor said:


> Actually, the Kregg track is just like any one else's dual purpose track except they use a larger track size for their proprietary clamps. They reverse its installation so that they can get more bolts to hold down the track without twisting or pulling free.
> 
> I worked around that but its good stuff. You want to be able to bolt these tracks down, not screw them in the top, if you want to use if for clamps like Kregg. They are powerful and will easily pull out screw in track.
> 
> Woodpecker sells several options too. Incra has some combination track. Keep poking around until you find what suits your plans.


Brad I'm kinda liking the idea of using three of the dual channel bolt on style extrusions for the table as I could always use them for securing parts to the table if necessary , kind of a double duty . 
I'll use the single screw on style of channel for the actual fence faces only . That's my theory anyways, but you guys know how I change my mind every other second :no:


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## todd628 (Mar 8, 2015)

Rick,
What are you using for a fence??? You can use 8020 aluminum extrusions in a number of different ways. 1st they have single or double track 1/2" thick, they are made with little barbs that hold
it in the grove without fasteners. I always use glue and screws as well. I use there 1" X 3" extrusion for fences on all my machines. If the machine does not have a good way to hold down a fence I make an L shaped bracket out of wood drill a hole through the short leg of the bracket, 
with the fence hanging over both edges meaning it is longer than the table. I then insert bolts in the bottom track on both edges, slip the L shaped block over the bolt and then a threaded knob.
slide the block over with the leg sticking out under the table and tighten it down, repeat on the other end. you then have a fence with a slot on top,, 2 slots on both the front and back.

As far as the laminate goes alot of the information above was very good, you can however make a simple roller with a 1 1/2" or 2" hardwood dowel. the roller normally does not want to be wider than about 3" or you can not apply enough pressure per sq inch.

Lastly if you get a grain of sawdust under the laminate it is not the end of the world. Take a piece of close grain hardwood about 4" square make sure the block has one very smooth straight side. lay it with the smooth side down over the culprit and wack it hard with a hammer
it will either flatten the speck or drive it into the substrate. No one will ever know.

Have a blessed day and enjoy making some dust, Todd


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

On cutting the laminate, I used my track saw set at like 3 mm depth (shallowest it can go) and it worked great. And, it was precise - I had an overhang of 1/4" uniformly all the way around. I've also cut it on the table saw with an 80T blade. Works fine too,


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

todd628 said:


> Rick,
> What are you using for a fence??? Todd


Todd I was going to use wood and melamine for the faces . Never even thought of aluminum , but as soon as the tables built I have to take a good look at options though . Was going to make two, one when your doing horizontal fits and a second tall one for thos odd occasions where you want to have the wood in a vertical position.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> On cutting the laminate, I used my track saw set at like 3 mm depth (shallowest it can go) and it worked great. And, it was precise - I had an overhang of 1/4" uniformly all the way around. I've also cut it on the table saw with an 80T blade. Works fine too,


I actually want a track saw . Was going to get one from Festool but wasn't expecting to do it this soon . Great idea though and I need one anyways


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> I actually want a track saw . Was going to get one from Festool but wasn't expecting to do it this soon . Great idea though and I need one anyways


I have the Makita TS and am very happy with it. It's a lot more than just a sheet good cutter. Wonderful for trimming a tiny little bit off of something (like the bottom of a door). It's not a replacement for a table saw but it sure makes cutting big things easy. Cost for the basic makita (saw and track) system is less than 2/3 of the Festool - 640 vs 400. Get the dewalt track clamps though - they are the best out there.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> I have the Makita TS and am very happy with it. It's a lot more than just a sheet good cutter. Wonderful for trimming a tiny little bit off of something (like the bottom of a door). It's not a replacement for a table saw but it sure makes cutting big things easy. Cost for the basic makita (saw and track) system is less than 2/3 of the Festool - 640 vs 400. Get the dewalt track clamps though - they are the best out there.


Well I really like and own Makita as well as Dewalt . So obviously the Dewalt track is compatible with the Makita track saw? ( I know nothing about track saws) 

Wonder if there's any advantage of going with the Festool track saw? (Other than pounding my visa harder  )
I do like there products though


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I really like and own Makita as well as Dewalt . So obviously the Dewalt track is compatible with the Makita track saw? ( I know nothing about track saws)
> 
> Wonder if there's any advantage of going with the Festool track saw? (Other than pounding my visa harder  )
> I do like there products though


Actually, I think there is some incompatibility. I vaguely recall that the dewalt will fit the festool (and makita) track but not the other way around. There is a review somewhere that mentions it but it's been a while so you should verify that before buying. Lots of review out there and many of the pick Festool as the best with the Makita as the best budget choice.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok going forward l ordered 3 double track channels from Elite tools and a couple single track channels from Woodpecker . 
I love the Woodpecker site , just a candy store for router addicts . 
So when I was there I bought 4 woodpecker feather boards and a few other things . I didn't want to admit this lol but I cheated and ordered the router plate template as I believe woodpecker and incra are one in the same . I have a template that I made but it needs a little patching so I thought I'd save myself the trouble .
Also at LeeValley I have all sorts of T nuts coming etc .


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

I think that you should be happy with your choices Rick, and I think that you did the right thing springing for the template. This is one cut that you don't have to do twice! Good luck with the build, and have FUN.
~jeff


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok going forward l ordered 3 double track channels from Elite tools and a couple single track channels from Woodpecker .
> I love the Woodpecker site , just a candy store for router addicts .
> So when I was there I bought 4 woodpecker feather boards and a few other things . I didn't want to admit this lol but I cheated and ordered the router plate template as I believe woodpecker and incra are one in the same . I have a template that I made but it needs a little patching so I thought I'd save myself the trouble .
> Also at LeeValley I have all sorts of T nuts coming etc .


Now you can understand why I built my assembly table with their track.

I love Woodpecker's!!!!:x


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## phillipsted (Sep 26, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Actually, the Kregg track is just like any one else's dual purpose track except they use a larger track size for their proprietary clamps. They reverse its installation so that they can get more bolts to hold down the track without twisting or pulling free.
> 
> I worked around that but its good stuff. You want to be able to bolt these tracks down, not screw them in the top, if you want to use if for clamps like Kregg. They are powerful and will easily pull out screw in track.
> 
> Woodpecker sells several options too. Incra has some combination track. Keep poking around until you find what suits your plans.


I agree - the tracks that are bolted through the table rather than screwed into the table top are much more sturdy. They can also be easily removed for cleaning or repair.

TedP


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

phillipsted said:


> I agree - the tracks that are bolted through the table rather than screwed into the table top are much more sturdy. They can also be easily removed for cleaning or repair.
> 
> TedP


Now if I can just get that dual channel miter slot track installed exactly parallel to the router plate . At least I think it's important?
Actually I think the fence needs to be parallel to the miter slot ,and that can be adjusted in this situation . Just in case I miss by a few thousandths


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Now you can understand why I built my assembly table with their track.
> 
> I love Woodpecker's!!!!:x


Brad I'm really liking there products, I guess I should as they make parts for Incra I believe  . I bought some interesting feather boards too, and they have some piece that slidef or tightening that is different then usual.
Here's the link http://www.woodpeck.com/wpfeatherboard.html


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Brad I'm really liking there products, I guess I should as they make parts for Incra I believe  . I bought some interesting feather boards too, and they have some piece that slidef or tightening that is different then usual.
> Here's the link


I think that is funny because I know how much of a fan you are of JessEm products and I have been using the Paralign Feather Boards from them for 6 years now. I liked the idea that they were stackable and you gotta love the color too!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> I think that is funny because I know how much of a fan you are of JessEm products and I have been using the Paralign Feather Boards from them for 6 years now. I liked the idea that they were stackable and you gotta love the color too!!!


You know I have a feeling I bought those and forgot all about them? I have to check the garage later as I remember studying those and marvelling over them at one time . I'm such an impulse buyer lol


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> You know I have a feeling I bought those and forgot all about them? I have to check the garage later as I remember studying those and marvelling over them at one time . I'm such an impulse buyer lol


Well, with two router tables Rick, you will need all the featherboards you can lay your hands on. I do not think you could wrong with either brand.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Well, with two router tables Rick, you will need all the featherboards you can lay your hands on. I do not think you could wrong with either brand.


Funny you should mention that Brad because I was sitting here thinking about it for minute and thought the same thing


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys this table has T channel for securing the fence running all the way to the miter slot ? Is there any benefit to doing it like this ?


Seeing as I'm using dual track for my sides (to secure the fence ) is it ok for me to have my track on the outsides of the table as opposed to going in like they did ?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Why in the name of (fill in the blank) would you need double track running front to back (I don't mean one single on either side?
The fence occupies the rear portion (of each side) leaving the front-side available for whatever... (?)
Most of the DIY tables illustrated in routering books don't even use mechanical trackage. Routered slots seem to work just fine.

Charles: it came to mind the other day, that a good reason for doubling up the top material is to overcome the compromised strength of the top layer, _from dadoing it out for the tracks_.
I think that might be a legitimate concern if you drop 3/8" deep dados from front to back, or from side to side...even more so if you go deeper.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Why in the name of (fill in the blank) would you need double track running front to back (I don't mean one single on either side?
> The fence occupies the rear portion (of each side) leaving the front-side available for whatever... (?)
> Most of the DIY tables illustrated in routering books don't even use mechanical trackage. Routered slots seem to work just fine.
> 
> ...


Dan I just liked the fact that it's bolted down as opposed to putting in screws . And I thought they could be used to secure a jig in a pinch , as I was going to buy some of those clamps that you use to secure material that connects to that track . 
Wouldn't be the first time I over thought something lol .

I could use that track for a future work station I guess , but I kinda had my heart set on this :cray:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Actually, the Kregg track is just like any one else's dual purpose track except they use a larger track size for their proprietary clamps. They reverse its installation so that they can get more bolts to hold down the track without twisting or pulling free.
> 
> I worked around that but its good stuff. You want to be able to bolt these tracks down, not screw them in the top, if you want to use if for clamps like Kregg. They are powerful and will easily pull out screw in track.
> 
> Woodpecker sells several options too. Incra has some combination track. Keep poking around until you find what suits your plans.


Well I should read closer as I wasn't aware Kreg accessories only worked in there track .
Guess I can always buy some more


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Guess I can always buy some more"

Words to live by... 


Rick; I don't disagree with the flat head m/s and nut vs wood screws concept. In fact it makes a lot of sense!
I don't like the idea of _gluing_ them down however. You should be able to reuse the track if you decide to rebuild the top, or re laminate it.
I try to avoid getting trapped into _brand specific_ concepts as opposed to generics. Been burnt once too many times by the former.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Dan I was kind of opposed to gluing the track as I thought the same thing , you can always use them again if the table needs replacing


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "Guess I can always buy some more"
> 
> Words to live by...
> 
> ...


Ok I see I also have to buy me one of those router bits that do that cut to replicate a T track . I watched a video and it's pretty neat for the back of the fence where it needs to slide . You guys mentioned that bit and now I see the necessity of owning it . I love shopping so it's all good . Now if they have one in stock at Windser Plywood in a Freud that would be awesome


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick; Lee Valley is having a Free Shipping event. Charles and others have pointed out that LV router bits are excellent quality/value...
Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement

I think the free shipping is only on for a couple more days.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Rick; Lee Valley is having a Free Shipping event. Charles and others have pointed out that LV router bits are excellent quality/value...
> Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement
> 
> I think the free shipping is only on for a couple more days.


Good to know Dan , thanks . I seen a video on YouTube and you had to dado the slot first , then the router bit cuts the bottom slot . But I see one that does both at lee valley . Which ways better as I'm assuming doing it in one pass would be better ?

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=51233&cat=1,46168,46176


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Rick; Lee Valley is having a Free Shipping event. Charles and others have pointed out that LV router bits are excellent quality/value...
> Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement
> 
> I think the free shipping is only on for a couple more days.


Thanks for pointing that out Dan, I need some stuff too.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick (again) (we've gotta stop meeting like this);
if you use single tracks you can do an intersection and run the tracks straight through.
T-Track and T-Track Accessories
...scroll down at the link


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Good to know Dan , thanks . I seen a video on YouTube and you had to dado the slot first , then the router bit cuts the bottom slot . But I see one that does both at lee valley . Which ways better as I'm assuming doing it in one pass would be better ?
> 
> Lee Valley Tools - Important Announcement


I wonder if a saw kerf or a straight cut bit should be used ahead of that bit to clear a pathway. I have broken every bit like that trying to do it in one pass?

The weak spot seems to be the small neck, although this one has a substantial neck on it, Just wouldn't want to break it on the first pass. 

VOE they also gow up your work when they break too. Just thinking outloud ,Rick.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Never tried it Rick, but I agree with Herb in that getting the majority of the spoil out of the dado first would be a lot easier on the T slot cutter. 
If he says doing it in one go leads to throwing out a $30 bit, Man, I'm paying attention!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up Herb ! That's good to know , plus I do own a dado and it's an expensive Freud one to boot . (I think it was $480 after tax )


Dan I wasn't aware of those intersections , great stuff , thanks ! I'm starting to really like this T track stuff and it's usefulness .

I seen someone use two of those aluminum T tracks in front of the router plate lower down and it acted as a guide for the front section of the table to slide as a sled the same height as the table . Not sure if I want to get that carried away but it's tempting


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_"...I wasn't aware of those intersections , great stuff , ..."_

They're just short pieces with dual mitres cut on one end...make your own!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> _"...I wasn't aware of those intersections , great stuff , ..."_
> 
> They're just short pieces with dual mitres cut on one end...make your own!


Use your chop saw and some paste wax on the blade. If your going to cut a lot of alum,get a metal cutting blade, but always use a stick lube to keep the aluminum from sticking to the blade, but you know that ,Rick.,
You will have to cut all the other alum tracks too.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...keep the aluminum from sticking to the blade."

Hot snot?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "...keep the aluminum from sticking to the blade."
> 
> Hot snot?


Not familiar with that term, Dan ? Is that a miracle product, or a disease?

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I have a Makita metal chop saw (it's in my profile) . It has one of those ceramic blades I think it's called , kinda like a grinder .
I'm assuming that will be ok for cutting aluminum channel?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Not familiar with that term, Dan ? Is that a miracle product, or a disease?
> 
> Herb


It's an affliction, often encountered whist installing fiberglass insulation in an attic in the Summer...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I have a Makita metal chop saw (it's in my profile) . It has one of those ceramic blades I think it's called , kinda like a grinder .
> I'm assuming that will be ok for cutting aluminum channel?


Never used one of those,if they are like a grinding wheel with grit,they might plug up. 
All I have ever seen the professionals use is one with lots of teeth set on a negative angle so the blade doesn't "hook" the metal and tear it. We used to use a skilsaw blade backward in the old days, but not doing precision work of course.

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> It's an affliction, often encountered whist installing fiberglass insulation in an attic in the Summer...


And I thought that was caused from the heat and humidity and fiberglass dust we were just cleaning out our sinuses.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Never used one of those,if they are like a grinding wheel with grit,they might plug up.
> All I have ever seen the professionals use is one with lots of teeth set on a negative angle so the blade doesn't "hook" the metal and tear it. We used to use a skilsaw blade backward in the old days, but not doing precision work of course.
> 
> Herb


Well aluminum is quite soft so I could see a blade meant for wood cutting it fairly easily . I wouldn't be turning a carbide blade backwards however , as you'd rip the carbide teeth off . I wonder if I have some old non carbide blades kicking around ?

I'll do a test cut and see how the chop saw works first though . I was cutting 3" square tubing and it discoloured the paint from the heat


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Well aluminum is quite soft so I could see a blade meant for wood cutting it fairly easily . I wouldn't be turning a carbide blade backwards however , as you'd rip the carbide teeth off . I wonder if I have some old non carbide blades kicking around ?
> 
> I'll do a test cut and see how the chop saw works first though . I was cutting 3" square tubing and it discoloured the paint from the heat


I just used one of my older cross cut finish blade. Just use a slow feed rate to avoid binding. Cut like butter and you would never know they did not ship that way.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> I just used one of my older cross cut finish blade. Just use a slow feed rate to avoid binding. Cut like butter and you would never know they did not ship that way.


Thanks Brad . Just to confirm , this is a cross cut blade ( which I have no idea what that is ) used in a miter saw?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Brad . Just to confirm , this is a cross cut blade ( which I have no idea what that is ) used in a miter saw?


Yep.

Us old timers have 10 different names for the same thing. You usually rip (with the grain) on a table saw and cross cut(across the grain) on a RAS or miter saw . VERY general but you get the idea.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've got an old many-toothed (80+/-?), hollow ground, 10" finish blade...no set to the teeth. You think that'd work well on Aluminum? I'd be happy to put it to use doing something other than gather dust.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

You can use a jig saw with a metal cutting blade, that would be a lot cheaper than a metal cutting blade for your chop saw, or ruining a perfectly good blade. I used my cordless jig saw to cut some miter track just today for my router table and it turned out great. Just secure the extrusion and clamp a guide fence for the saw.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well yes, but what fun is that, Jeff?! 
Seriously though, the chop saw will give precision cuts...90deg in both directions, or any angle required. The picture framers use them and the corner joints on Aluminum frames are almost invisible. No chatter marks either.
I'll just try it with that blade and see (it's not going to ruin a HSS blade) ...might ruin the Aluminum however(?).


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well I'll be darned! Apparently the hollow ground HSS blade is _perfect_ for aluminum. I knew if I hung onto it for long enough I'd come out smelling like a rose... 

(Have I mentioned how much I loves the internets? Why yes, I do believe I have.)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry; should have included the link...
http://www.royceayr.com/assets/Uploads/Royce-Sawblade-2010-01.pdf


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Sorry; should have included the link...
> http://www.royceayr.com/assets/Uploads/Royce-Sawblade-2010-01.pdf


Thanks Dan. How I wish I could get one real soon


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> I've got an old many-toothed (80+/-?), hollow ground, 10" finish blade...no set to the teeth. You think that'd work well on Aluminum? I'd be happy to put it to use doing something other than gather dust.


Should provide a nice clean cut.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I'll see what Home Depot has to offer . Not a lot usually


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I've got an old many-toothed (80+/-?), hollow ground, 10" finish blade...no set to the teeth. You think that'd work well on Aluminum? I'd be happy to put it to use doing something other than gather dust.


wax it before the cut...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Do you have a Reserved Parking spot at HD, Rick?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Do you have a Reserved Parking spot at HD, Rick?


Dam near lol . I park in front by the rental doors with the Raptor like I own the place 

Once someone remarked " aren't you worried about getting keyed "


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I've been busy , not building but collecting parts . Ok please forgive me router gods , as I cheated and bought a woodpecker template


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I've been busy , not building but collecting parts . Ok please forgive me router gods , as I cheated and bought a woodpecker template


The template takes all the guesswork out of it. I'm for it but let me guess, the JessEm featherboards were sitting in a box when you bought the Woodpeckers.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> The template takes all the guesswork out of it. I'm for it but let me guess, the JessEm featherboards were sitting in a box when you bought the Woodpeckers.


Lmao , no Brad I haven't found those yet :no:

Well I'm taking next week off so I'll do some work on my bathroom and if my long K type Besseys arrive I'll start a build thread and make this table


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Holding my breath.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Holding my breath.
> Herb


Maybe we should start a poll ? 
I'm not promising to make a fence all in one shot too though . Gotta have something to do next year :lol:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Better yet lets start a pool.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Better yet lets start a pool.


Well anything but holding your breath Herb . There's enough of you guys getting sick , and I hate to see you fall ill too


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Well anything but holding your breath Herb . There's enough of you guys getting sick , and I hate to see you fall ill too


You must be telling me it's gonna be awhile.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> You must be telling me it's gonna be awhile.
> 
> Herb


Well I'm just judging from previous RainMan behaviour . My buddy laughs because I always have 12 projects going at one time ,and never get any one thing accomplished .
He makes a good point .

Herb you gave me an idea , check out my new sig


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Better yet lets start a pool.


w/ a bar...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Gotta have something to do next year :lol:


and the years after...
go insulate your garage...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Rome wasn't built in a day , neither was my router table


..


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I'm just judging from previous RainMan behaviour . My buddy laughs because I always have 12 projects going at one time ,and never get any one thing accomplished .
> He makes a good point .
> 
> Herb you gave me an idea , check out my new sig


LMAO, Rick, :no: Look what happened to Rome. :laugh2:

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> LMAO, Rick, :no: Look what happened to Rome. :laugh2:
> 
> Herb


Yikes , you know I never even considered that :fie:


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Rainman,
Busy Bee Tools here in Canada carries a lot of Kreg Tools items including this Kreg RAK COMBO 48" - Trak Combo 48in. Kreg at Busy Bee Tools
I shop in person at the Busy Bee Tools store in London, Ontario. Usually when I drive from Chatham to London, I hit both Busy Bee Tools and Lee Valley.
I purchased my router and INCRA Mast-R-Lift II router lift from Elite Tools in Quebec. 

Larry B
Chatham, Ontario


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

I found a pretty sweet deal on 36" Shop Fox T-Track, for ~$10 on Amazon. I just got some delivered today and it's a good fit for 1/4" x 20 bolts. It doesn't have any pre-drilled holes for the mounting screws, but that just means you can put them where you want them, or just epoxy the track in place.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I've been busy , not building but collecting parts . Ok please forgive me router gods , as I cheated and bought a woodpecker template
> 
> ]


I just got my new Incra 25" Range LS Super System with 27" x 43" Router Table and Stand on Friday from Elite Tools here in Canada. to go with my Incra Mast-R-Lift II router lift. I also ordered 2 Bench Dog Feather Loc's from them, and the substituted the JessEm Paralign Feather Boards Twin Pack (made in China).
These JessEm Paralign Feather Boards look and feel really cheap. I'm going to ask Elite tools to take them back and send me the Bench Dog Feather-Loc's I ordered in the first place.
Personally I would never buy these JessEm Feather loc's.

Larry B


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I've been busy , not building but collecting parts . Ok please forgive me router gods , as I cheated and bought a woodpecker template


Rick, what are your thoughts / opinions on the quality of the JessEm Feather boards (made in China) verses the Woodpeckers Feather boards (made in the USA)? I'm thinking that you will say hands down, that the Woodpeckers are the best design and quality.
I originally ordered (2) Bench Dog Feather boards from Elite Tools here in Canada and they substituted the JessEm Feather boards.
I really disliked the poor quality plastic knobs on the JessEms, so I got a RMA back to Elite Tools and got the Bench Dog Feather boards today. I definitely like the Bench Dog Feather boards over the JessEms. I will buy more Bench Dogs and I'm planning on getting some of the Woodpeckers Feather boards.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

I'm beginning to think that Rick is the most interesting man alive. And, he and I share a similar shop setup. I moved to here two years, and I still haven't found one of my boxes containing some of my turning tools!! Birds of a feather? Or is it birdbrained? Or maybe featherbrained? Anyway, I sure do enjoy whatever it is that I do/don't do. Maybe, with Rick as my role model/tutor, I'll eventually get to be at least interesting.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Roy Drake said:


> I'm beginning to think that Rick is the most interesting man alive. And, he and I share a similar shop setup. I moved to here two years, and I still haven't found one of my boxes containing some of my turning tools!! Birds of a feather? Or is it birdbrained? Or maybe featherbrained? Anyway, I sure do enjoy whatever it is that I do/don't do. Maybe, with Rick as my role model/tutor, I'll eventually get to be at least interesting.


You will learn a lot from Rick. 
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Roy Drake said:


> I'm beginning to think that Rick is the most interesting man alive. Maybe, with Rick as my role model/tutor, I'll eventually get to be at least interesting.





Herb Stoops said:


> You will learn a lot from Rick.
> Herb




ROTFLMAO , you guys are killing me :lol:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stargate said:


> Rick, what are your thoughts / opinions on the quality of the JessEm Feather boards (made in China) verses the Woodpeckers Feather boards (made in the USA)? I'm thinking that you will say hands down, that the Woodpeckers are the best design and quality.
> I originally ordered (2) Bench Dog Feather boards from Elite Tools here in Canada and they substituted the JessEm Feather boards.
> I really disliked the poor quality plastic knobs on the JessEms, so I got a RMA back to Elite Tools and got the Bench Dog Feather boards today. I definitely like the Bench Dog Feather boards over the JessEms. I will buy more Bench Dogs and I'm planning on getting some of the Woodpeckers Feather boards.


Larry I'll take a good look at them tomorrow and see if one seems better quality wise .
I can't actually do a real life trial as I didn't get my router table built right the first attempt . But I'm sure looking at there construction should tell a little


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I've been busy , not building but collecting parts . Ok please forgive me router gods , as I cheated and bought a woodpecker template


Rick, Personally I think that was a smart idea of yours for buying that Woodpeckers CNC MDF Router Insert Plate Template - Router Table Mounting Plate - Template . For a first time router table builder this should save the builder a lot of headaches and or mistakes like Marty had in this video - JessEm Router Lift Unboxing and Installation - https://goo.gl/34qUlg .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stargate said:


> Rick, Personally I think that was a smart idea of yours for buying that Woodpeckers CNC MDF Router Insert Plate Template - Router Table Mounting Plate - Template . For a first time router table builder this should save the builder a lot of headaches and or mistakes like Marty had in this video - JessEm Router Lift Unboxing and Installation - https://goo.gl/34qUlg .


The only bad thing is the template is to big . I put the plate in there and you can move it around a bit . I'm going to wrap a few layers of that aluminum tape around the bearing of the bit to tighten it up .001" and see if that helps . 
Kinda disappointing considering they had a cnc to cut it out 

I made a template but it needs a repair in a few spots . For some reason when I made it the radiuses are tighter than the sides?


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> The only bad thing is the template is to big . I put the plate in there and you can move it around a bit . I'm going to wrap a few layers of that aluminum tape around the bearing of the bit to tighten it up .001" and see if that helps .
> Kinda disappointing considering they had a cnc to cut it out
> 
> I made a template but it needs a repair in a few spots . For some reason when I made it the radiuses are tighter than the sides?


Rick, Is this correct that you have an Incra V2 router lift, and that you bought the Woodpeckers CNC MDF Router Insert Plate Template to make the cutout for your router lift?
As far as I know, the Woodpecker's Router Lifts and Aluminum router plates, Incra Mast-R-II, and JessEm Mast R II lifts all use the same Plate Template for their 9 1/4" x 11 3/4" lifts and plates.
Check out this video by Allan Little > *AskWoodman* from Texas on using the JessEm CNC Router Insert Plate Template - https://goo.gl/MTV05a. and here - *VerySuperCOOL Tools* - JessEm Template For 9-1/4 x 11-3/4 Router Opening - JessEm Template For 9-1/4 x 11-3/4 Router Opening - VerySuperCool Tools - Woodworking Tools


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes Larry that is correct . Lift is Incra V2 and template Jessem . I bought the template because I read there the same company . I'm sure I can make it work . Thanks for the links


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Larry I posted Woodman on YouTube . Will be interested to hear his reply


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Larry I posted Woodman on YouTube . Will be interested to hear his reply


Rick, I'm looking forwards to Allan Little's >AskWoodman's reply to your post - https://goo.gl/MTV05a . I'll do another post their myself and see if I can get Allan Little to join our RouterForums.com.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

I sent an invitation to Allan Little > *AskWoodman* - https://goo.gl/sk8zex from Texas, to join our RouterForums.com


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stargate said:


> I sent an invitation to Allan Little > *AskWoodman* - https://goo.gl/sk8zex from Texas, to join our RouterForums.com


Cool !


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Larry I posted Woodman on YouTube . Will be interested to hear his reply


Rick, did you see Allan Little > AskWoodman's reply to yours?
He asked you if _'Are you sure your bushing guide is exactly centered? Some router setups require a centering mandrel.'_
Allan used a 3/4" Guide Bushing with a 1/2" router bit.
Am I correct that you never used a Guide Bushing?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stargate said:


> Rick, did you see Allan Little > AskWoodman's reply to yours?
> He asked you if _'Are you sure your bushing guide is exactly centered? Some router setups require a centering mandrel.'_
> Allan used a 3/4" Guide Bushing with a 1/2" router bit.
> Am I correct that you never used a Guide Bushing?


Larry I haven't used it yet . All I did was take another Incra plate and drop it in the template and see that it was not tight at all . If it's loose at that point I can't see how it's going to be tight when I actually cut out a hole with it as I'm copying the template


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Larry I haven't used it yet . All I did was take another Incra plate and drop it in the template and see that it was not tight at all . If it's loose at that point I can't see how it's going to be tight when I actually cut out a hole with it as I'm copying the template


Rick, Isn't that the issue here that you are having? With a 1/2" router bit in a 3/4" Guide Busing you will end up with a routed out hole slightly smaller than the opening in the template, providing a snug fit for your Incra Plate.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stargate said:


> Rick, Isn't that the issue here that you are having? With a 1/2" router bit in a 3/4" Guide Busing you will end up with a routed out hole slightly smaller than the opening in the template, providing a snug fit for your Incra Plate.


I think I have to make a video Larry . A video may explain it better . In a nutshell though , without even using the template but merely dropping an Incra plate in the unused template , it's loose


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> I think I have to make a video Larry . A video may explain it better . In a nutshell though , without even using the template but merely dropping an Incra plate in the unused template , it's loose


Rick, a video would be good, but I don't think it is necessary. I do believe I know exactly what is happening. I hope to hear back from JessEm Tools by email tomorrow. Dis the instruction sheet that came with your JessEm Router Plate Template recommend using a 3/4" Guide Bushing and a 1/2" mortising router bit? And not a guide bearing router bit.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Rick, when I cut my plate support I used a bottom bearing pattern bit, so the hole matched the template exactly. Larry is referring to using a guide bushing to follow the template. With this approach the actual cut is offset (in) by one half of the difference between the O.D. of the guide bushing minus the O.D. of the bit.


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Rick, when I cut my plate support I used a bottom bearing pattern bit, so the hole matched the template exactly. Larry is referring to using a guide bushing to follow the template. With this approach the actual cut is offset (in) by one half of the difference between the O.D. of the guide bushing minus the O.D. of the bit.


Jeff, I believe the issue is, if Rick is actually using the JessEm CNC MDF Router Plate Template, the actual hole size in that Template is larger than the Jessem or Incra Mast R Lift plates, thus the 3/4" Guide Busing and 1/2 router bit will yield a 1/8" offset / smaller hole that will perfectly fit the router plates .


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## Stargate (Oct 2, 2014)

Stargate said:


> Rick, a video would be good, but I don't think it is necessary. I do believe I know exactly what is happening. I hope to hear back from JessEm Tools by email tomorrow. Dis the instruction sheet that came with your JessEm Router Plate Template recommend using a 3/4" Guide Bushing and a 1/2" mortising router bit? And not a guide bearing router bit.


Rick, The *JessEm #03003 CNC MDF Router Plate Template* instructions call for a 3/4" O.D. Guide Bushing and a 1/2" router bit. In his video, Woodman was using a 2 flute straight bit in a 3/4" O.D. Guide Bushing. You just checked your router plate into the template and if that was the case the fit would be way off. So if you set your router up with a 3/4" O.D. Guide Bushing and a 1/2" router bit and use that JessEm MDF Plate Template, you will end up with a perfect fit hole for your Incra V2 Router Lift.
JessEm got back to me today and verified this information and sent me the PDF instructions for their #3003 CNC MDF Router Plate Template. Allow me to quote JessEm - "The 03003 is the template guide number you are looking for and that Allan promotes. This is a CNC MDF board that is the exact same size as our JessEm and Incra Lifts. Please note that this will not work with ours and Incra’s smaller top plates which are *8-1/4* x 11-3/4." 
Does this make sense now?


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