# Attaching solid wood to benchtop sides



## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

I got a bench top 60x29. The top layer of plywood is 3/4 oak, the bottom 3/4 sanded one side. So about 1.5 thick

I want to put oak bands around it. 3/4 thick, 1.5 H. The wood should contact and expand up and down, I believe. So how should I attach it. 

Since the glue would run down and squish, I can't just glue just the center. If I glue it all the way, is movement going to be an issue? 

Attach it flush for the top, so movement is forced down??

Brad nail it in the center of the wood? Though not sure if that would be strong enough. I could counter sink some wood screws in the center.

This is just for a reloading bench, so it doesn't have to be to nice, but it is practice. Plus I want to avoid metal that could scratch stuff.

Glue is drying right now between the sheets of plywood.
Thanks for help.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Zerk said:


> I got a bench top 60x29. The top layer of plywood is 3/4 oak, the bottom 3/4 sanded one side. So about 1.5 thick
> 
> I want to put oak bands around it. 3/4 thick, 1.5 H. The wood should contact and expand up and down, I believe. So how should I attach it.
> 
> ...


spline it...


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

If you are installing it on a bench in a control environment do not worry about it glue it add few bard nails maybe and enjoy 1 1/2" wide will not move enough to worry about.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Semipro said:


> If you are installing it on a bench in a control environment do not worry about it glue it add few bard nails maybe and enjoy 1 1/2" wide will not move enough to worry about.


What he said. Oak only moves about 1/8 inch per foot of width. So, your 1.5 inch wide strip should only move about 1/64 or so. The glue will allow that much creep. I've never had problems with movement in cross-glued pieces up to about 3 inches wide. Also, I'll bet the plywood shrinks and swells in thickness with humidity changes - it's just that we never use plywood thick enough to notice.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Thanks. Hopefully finish this project it has gone on longer then it should.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DonkeyHody said:


> What he said. Oak only moves about 1/8 inch per foot of width. So, your 1.5 inch wide strip should only move about 1/64 or so. The glue will allow that much creep. I've never had problems with movement in cross-glued pieces up to about 3 inches wide. Also, I'll bet the plywood shrinks and swells in thickness with humidity changes - it's just that we never use plywood thick enough to notice.


We have probably built hundreds of feet of countertops with 3/4" thick x 1-1/2" wide oak or birch strip glued on the plywood edge with Titebond - never had any failure or complaint. The photo shows the edging on the 25 year old countertop in my wife's kitchen. Most were finished with lacquer, this was finished with conversion varnish and looks like the day it was installed. 

Countertops are 2 layers of luan (top and build-up), with the build-up glued and stapled. Take care lining up the build-up when installing so there is minimal sanding required to get a smooth surface for gluing. Spread a very thin seal coat of Titebond on the plywood and let it dry then spread a nice second coat on and clamp the oak in place, should have no problems.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

I don't usually build fine furniture and I admit my knowledge of wood movement and its issues is limited. However I did make some built-in bookcases which used plywood for the lower cabinet tops with 3/4" x 1 1/2" thick hardwood trim around the edges. I just glued and pin-nailed the trim in place. I also put the same trim on a room divider where the trim is just pin-nailed in place. I haven't noticed any problems with wood expansion/contraction and, like the others, don't think it would be that big an issue.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Zerk said:


> I got a bench top 60x29. The top layer of plywood is 3/4 oak, the bottom 3/4 sanded one side. So about 1.5 thick
> 
> I want to put oak bands around it. 3/4 thick, 1.5 H. The wood should contact and expand up and down, I believe. So how should I attach it.
> 
> ...


this is a workbench.. correct...
because of using the edges for clamping, vibration, (sanding) hammering and what not...
don't sweat wood movement but do spline it for endurance and strength...


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> this is a workbench.. correct...
> because of using the edges for clamping, vibration, (sanding) hammering and what not...
> don't sweat wood movement but do spline it for endurance and strength...


It is a work bench, but I don't think it will take a lot of abuse. It is for reloading and gun smithing.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> stapled. Take care lining up the build-up when installing so there is minimal sanding required to get a smooth surface for gluing. Spread a very thin seal coat of Titebond on the plywood and let it dry then spread a nice second coat on and clamp the oak in place, should have no problems.




Why two layers of glue? Fill in voids? 

I had just planned on putting glue on the plywood, and clamping on the oak trim. I don't have bar clamps so for the ends I'll have to brad nail it. Probably nail the long strips to since I have the gun out.

I am going to try and flush trim with my router, the bottom sheet to the top one. I have never done it before.


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## mfradkin55 (Jan 6, 2013)

*2 layers of glue...*



Zerk said:


> Why two layers of glue? Fill in voids?
> 
> I had just planned on putting glue on the plywood, and clamping on the oak trim. I don't have bar clamps so for the ends I'll have to brad nail it. Probably nail the long strips to since I have the gun out.
> 
> I am going to try and flush trim with my router, the bottom sheet to the top one. I have never done it before.



The 1st glue application on the plywood edge helps to "prime the plywood" for much better adhesion, especially in the bands that are end grain. Then the 2nd layer of glue has a better foundation to adhere to. 

Flush trimming to get the 2 sheets nice an even is a very good idea.

Good luck and enjoy!

Mark Fradkin


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" I don't have bar clamps ..."
*Shock* _We_ need to take you shopping!


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

I do have 5 three foot clamps. So I am not clampless. I was thinking if I should use this as an excuse to get some. But I want to get this done. 

I started the frame 2 years ago this month. Edge glued jointed 2x6s. Wasn't happy with how it came out, and project stalled. 

Top has 7 layers of polyurethane. Frame is just 2x. 

I usually go overboard as a way to practice.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I remembered this video from a while back, finally found it this morning - a cheap home-made clamp for holding on edging. To glue 1-1/2" wide edging, I would put a 3/8" spacer between the clamp block and strip to apply the pressure at the center of the edging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBuq7dPHQcI

Tom


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

w/ a spline all you need is tape to hold the edging in place till the glue dries...

w/o metal fasteners in the edging you don't run the risk of ruining a blade or bit if you were to hit one...


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Is there an issue with glue bonding with wood that is stained?

I was reading where people taped off glue joints, when pre-finishing. In the past I have stained joints, in case any shows. I was going to stain both sides of the trim, not like it takes that much more time.

Thanks


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Get a Grip*

Speaking of clamps I'll see your Irwins and raise you a whole bunch!
I've been buying the ROKs for about 6 months now and they've been absolutely trouble free.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oops...Cricket will not be pleased.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Zerk said:


> Is there an issue with glue bonding with wood that is stained?
> 
> I was reading where people taped off glue joints, when pre-finishing. In the past I have stained joints, in case any shows. I was going to stain both sides of the trim, not like it takes that much more time.
> 
> Thanks


Depending on the stain, yes. Most wood glues are water-based and depend upon their ability to be carried into the cellular structure of the wood. If you want to know whether a piece of wood will glue, put a drop of water on the surface and see if it's absorbed or just sits there. If it absorbs, you are good to glue. If not, you need to explore other options. Oil based stains will not allow the wood to absorb water. You might get by with gluing on water based stain if it has thoroughly dried. I wouldn't chance it. Your mileage may vary.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Well another slowdown, mess I created. While dry clamping to check the fit, I notice one edge is not straight. I cut it with circular saw and guide, I did this before, but it not as good as I thought I guess. Cut came out straight, but blade tore up the oak plywood a quite a bit. Beacuse of the poly on it? Just the construction blade it came with , but was not that bad first cut.

I also realize cause I am an idiot and can't do math, I cut the ends 1.5 to short. Luckily only $5 of wood. Sure feel like an idiot when you realize you added run or mitered wrong direction, or router on wrong side, wrecking wood. I'd like to think experience will help, but I am not sure.

Also looking back I should have maybe bought a wider board and cutinto strips. Some th 1.5s were not the best quality.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

DonkeyHody said:


> Depending on the stain, yes. Most wood glues are water-based and depend upon their ability to be carried into the cellular structure of the wood. If you want to know whether a piece of wood will glue, put a drop of water on the surface and see if it's absorbed or just sits there. If it absorbs, you are good to glue. If not, you need to explore other options. Oil based stains will not allow the wood to absorb water. You might get by with gluing on water based stain if it has thoroughly dried. I wouldn't chance it. Your mileage may vary.


I just did a mirror bathroom frame, where I oil based stained the miters, incase they were not true or shifted seasonally. It is ok now. Luckily it is getting screwed to the metal back.

70s plastic flowering thing, which I took off. Was supposed to be a quick job, that was last summer.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Next I think I would glue the plywood tops together with the non factory sides long, so I could cut them at the same time to the correct size.. The trimming router bit didn't work as good as I hoped.


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## Zerk (Jun 24, 2014)

Glue is drying. Did not come out as good as I hoped, but better then it needs to be.

I tore up the oak plywood cutting off 1/8 to square it up better. Someone said to run tape on it before cutting. Maybe a pattern bit, with bearing on top against guide would have worked.

The miters did not come at to good. Maybe more dry fitting to get them right.

Maybe wait to finish it. Glue both layers of plywood together, maybe the non factory ends longer, to trim both at once. Instead of trying to get both same size do one longer to use a trim bit on.

I go over board on these projects, to practice.


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