# Is This plane a good value?



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I've noticed @Stick486 is strong advocate for hand planes. I would like expert opinion on this item I found on Amazon: (I could not get a link to the webpage to work. I do apologize tor all inconvenience everyone who tries to respond will have)
Taytools 469225 3-in-1 Shoulder Plane, Bullnose and Chisel Plane, Ductile Cast Iron, Precision Machined, 1 Inch Wide Blade


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

NEVER HEARD OF TAYTOOLS...
https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-469225-Shoulder-Bullnose-Precision/dp/B07DGYT651


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> NEVER HEARD OF TAYTOOLS...
> https://www.amazon.com/Taytools-469225-Shoulder-Bullnose-Precision/dp/B07DGYT651


Thanks very much.
So is this thing Chinese junk? 
Can you recommend a good plane?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> Thanks very much.
> So is this thing Chinese junk?
> Can you recommend a good plane?


Taytools is Taylor Tools' brand and the plane is made for them... .. 
Taylor Tools doesn't know where the plane was made... I called..

yes, I can recommend a better than a most excellent plane... VOE..
Veritas® Medium Shoulder Plane - Lee Valley Tools

stay away from the Sweetheart 92...

..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

see Herb's plan for one and make your own..

note...
a 1'' wide body doesn't work on a lot of dadoes or groves..
it is great on dressing tenons and rabbets..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

https://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/138703-shoulder-plane.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

the plane is made in India..


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> Taytools is Taylor Tools' brand and the plane is made for them... ..
> Taylor Tools doesn't know where the plane was made... I called..
> 
> yes, I can recommend a better than a most excellent plane... VOE..
> ...





Stick486 said:


> see Herb's plan for one and make your own..
> 
> note...
> a 1'' wide body doesn't work on a lot of dadoes or groves..
> it is great on dressing tenons and rabbets..





Stick486 said:


> https://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/138703-shoulder-plane.html





Stick486 said:


> the plane is made in India..


 @Stick486 Thank you so very much. The effgort you put into formulating your answers is amazing.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> @Stick486 Thank you so very much. The effgort you put into formulating your answers is amazing.


yur more than welcome...

VOE...
#92.. you read the PDF...
Woodriver.. lots of fine tuning and w/ lots of use the heel of my hand tenderized.. better plane for small to medium sized hand.. gave it away...
Clifton 420 and 3110... sweet... but not real comfortable.. sold them.. the Veritas made me do it..
Lie Nielsen 042 and 073.. very nice but didn't fit my hands.. really can't explain it.. sold them..
Veritas.. Small, Medium, Large and Bullnose.... instant gratification and the love affair began...
Veritas, Lie Nielsens and the Cliftons were good to go out of the box...
the Woodriver had to be worked/tuned/trued/sharpened before use.. the iron was over sized...
#92 one sorry assed piece of shid...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Also check out Wood River III planes. I have several and they're good, not quite up to the Veritas, but when you tune them up, they're very good. Kind of depends on how much you use it. A shoulder plane and block plane are really useful tools. Stick is amazing, isn't he?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> NEVER HEARD OF TAYTOOLS...


They seem to be flooding the market. Plenty of info on them, but nothing on where they are made. Was one reference to a knockoff made in India, but not sure it referred to a Taytool.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JOAT said:


> They seem to be flooding the market. Plenty of info on them, but nothing on where they are made. Was one reference to a knockoff made in India, but not sure it referred to a Taytool.


I confirmed India..


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> I confirmed India..


So I saw. After I had already posted.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@TWheels

so what plane did you get me???


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Tom the Veritas medium shoulder plane might cost about 3 times as much as the Taytools plane but that is because it is superior in many ways. If you plan on using it very much and can afford the extra cost I'd buy the Veritas. If it is going to be an occasional use tool then I think I would buy a blade from Veritas and make one like Herb made or a similar design.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> @TWheels
> 
> so what plane did you get me???



@Stick486, none yet. I am inclined to save up and as you and @MEBCWD suggest get the Veritas plane.

The world of planes is vastly more complex (and expensive) than I had ever imagined.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Cheap planes often have a number of issues with them such as the sole not being flat, sides not square to the sole, bed not flat causing blade chatter, adjustment mechanism not working smoothly enough to allow fine adjustment, and chip breaker not fitting properly to blade. All those issues are taken care of with Veritas and Lie Neilsen. Cliftons I'm not familiar with.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@TWheels...

side thought...
of all those planes I listed it was the Veritas that melded to my hand and became and extension...
it wasn't something I need to ''hold'' on or adapt to..
nor was it something that need work to make it work...
I belong to the ready to go crowd... 
why buy something that you have to spend more time/energy/money on to get it to do something..

back to the tangible/intangible cost thing...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> @Stick486, none yet. I am inclined to save up and as you and @MEBCWD suggest get the Veritas plane.


thanks...
I can always use another Veritas...
make it these if you will...
Veritas® Skew Block Plane - Lee Valley Tools
Veritas® Skew Rabbet Plane - Lee Valley Tools

a little minor point(s)..
they need to be L&R sets..
and have the PM-V11 irons/blades..


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> thanks...
> I can always use another Veritas...
> make it these if you will...
> Veritas® Skew Block Plane - Lee Valley Tools
> ...


That will require a serious savings program!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> That will require a serious savings program!


so how long will be till delivery..


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

For my tools like that my preference is older tools. Usually they are not costly, and perform well. And I like looking at them a lot more. Flea markets and yard sales are often good, and cheap. Ebay sometimes has something at a reasonable price, just check shipping charges. I don't buy the old tools just to collect them tho, they will be used, or not bought at all.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Some of the old Stanleys can be tuned to work fairly well but that tuning process can take from hours to days to get them working well. Plus when Lee Valley and probably Lie Neilsen started making planes they looked at the old ones (mostly Stanleys) and determined what the weak points were and corrected them. So no matter how well you can tune an old one it still probably won't be as good as a new one by those two companies.


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

The trouble is that the picture doesn't let you know the quality of the machining. I have a 3 in 1 Record plane that looks similar. I bought it 40 years ago and I think I paid more then. But when I use it as a bull plane and take the long nose off it works. When I put the long nose back on it aligns perfectly. So, you may have a bargain or you may have one that just will sit in a drawer and never get used after the first day. With Lie Nielsen or Veritas you will pay a lot more but you absolutely will love the plane


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Some of the old Stanleys can be tuned to work fairly well but that tuning process can take from hours to days to get them working well. Plus when Lee Valley and probably Lie Neilsen started making planes they looked at the old ones (mostly Stanleys) and determined what the weak points were and corrected them. So no matter how well you can tune an old one it still probably won't be as good as a new one by those two companies.


Yeah, that is part of the price of buying and using old tools. And part of the fun of buying and using old tools.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

For a shoulder plane, you are wanting the sides to be as close to a perfect 90 degrees to the bottom as possible. With this one having a removable front, it just seems like that would add a degree of error to it. This plane would end up costing you more (financial, frustration, time) then if you were to get a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MikeMa said:


> For a shoulder plane, you are wanting the sides to be as close to a perfect 90 degrees to the bottom as possible.


Also true for a plane that gets used with a shooting board.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

TWheels said:


> I've noticed @Stick486 is strong advocate for hand planes. I would like expert opinion on this item I found on Amazon: (I could not get a link to the webpage to work. I do apologize tor all inconvenience everyone who tries to respond will have)
> Taytools 469225 3-in-1 Shoulder Plane, Bullnose and Chisel Plane, Ductile Cast Iron, Precision Machined, 1 Inch Wide Blade


As Stick made note, manufactured in India by Shobha Industries. The body is pretty generic to several different brand names: ShopFox, Bench Dog, Rider and several others. Often the only difference is the design and materials used for the handles and adjustment mechanisms. The degree to which fit and finish plays into the end product influences the price range as well. 

Good value??? All depends on just how much one is willing to invest on the investment. Out of the box, Lie Nielsen is ready to go, Lee Valley/Veritas may require just a little tweaking (flattening of the iron back, lapping) same with Wood River, Record, Clifton and other Higher priced planes. All superior to the Taytools unit. But you pay for it up front. 

With these, out of the box you can pretty much bet your going to need to invest some sweat equity to get it properly tuned up. Once you do get it turned up to perform decently, how well it holds that tune is another matter altogether. 

If the plane is intended to be used often, comfort plays a critical role in choice. At least for me it does. You just can't beat the feel of a quality tool. 
If intended for a one off project or just occasional use, the Shobha models "MAY" be alright. In woodworking, the difference between 'alright" and "great" can be absolutely HUGE in many, many ways. 

just my 2cents worth


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

I have two Shoba planes, bought fairly cheaply when they were first introduced here. The price (and to a much lesser extent, the quality) has gone up quite a bit since then. I lived in India for a while, and these planes exemplify a “good enough” philosophy applied to a lot of manufacturing over there. 
I have a 4 1/2 smoothing plane, which is satisfyingly hefty, but mysteriously unbalanced in the hand; neither side is square to the sole, by an irremediable amount. The sole needed quite a bit of flattening, and is still not dead flat. The machining of the mating surfaces is poor, but not as poor as a made-in-England no. 5 Bailey plane I bought some 30 years ago. 
The other is a jointer, with a grooved sole. Due to its length, much harder to flatten. The sides are squarish to the sole, and potentially could be made dead-square, although superfluous for jointing.
I fitted both planes with PV VII blades and matching irons. The price was still way below that of a complete plane from LV, and while obviously not in the same league as an Veritas plane, gives a better result than what I can reasonably use.
My father was a master builder. His carpenters made do with post-war Stanleys, without the finesse of polished soles, etc, and I used to think that my indifferent results from my Bailey were a case of a bad workman blaming his tools. Until I did some reading, and spent some time tuning the plane (to the extent possible in that sorry specimen), and replaced the blade with a Veritas one I am still a bad workman, but the results are much better, with less effort. I even equipped it with an Veritas variable - angle fence, although I hardly ever plane a board wide enough to permit its use.
If I were starting out now, I would go the Veritas route, and not waste time and money and curses on inferior tools. But at my time of life, the expense is not commensurate with my needs or abilities. In any case, I have moved to Japanese planes, and hardly ever use the Western planes anymore.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> so how long will be till delivery..


 @Stick486, The Skew Block Planes are out of stock until Oct. 6 and the Skew Rabbet Planes are out of stock until Nov. 30. 
Question: why the need for both RH and LH versions?
What about Jack Planes and Small Smooth Planes?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

''tuning'' up a tool right out of the box is like buying a brand new truck, immediately hauling it from the lot to a repair shop and having the brakes fixed/made to work...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> @Stick486,
> 1... The Skew Block Planes are out of stock until Oct. 6 and the Skew Rabbet Planes are out of stock until Nov. 30.
> 2... Question: why the need for both RH and LH versions?
> 3... What about Jack Planes and Small Smooth Planes?


1... I can wait...
2... because of the grain..
3... can you elaborate on the question... (I don't like to shotgun type)


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> 1... I can wait...
> 2... because of the grain..
> *3... can you elaborate on the question... (I don't like to shotgun type)*


Again great thanks @Stick486. You have once again provided some very useful reading.
I hope the following links are the elaboration you requested. For a person aspiring to do diverrse high quality woodworking with minimal setup and maintenance fuss, are these helpful? 

http://http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,41182,41186,49708&p=49708
http://http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,230,41182&p=67691


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

those links took me nowhere...

Planes - Lee Valley Tools


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

@Stick486, Sorry. Somehow I have to do peculiar editing of a link in order for it to work once posted. I'll try again. 


http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,41182,41186,49708&p=49708

Veritas® Small Bevel-Up Smooth Plane - Lee Valley Tools


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

those worked...
an the question???


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

IMO, 99% of plane work is to get the blade really sharp.....


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