# Is there something you do to suuport your habit?



## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*Is there something you do to support your habit?*

I can see, after being here a while, that there are many talented people that visit regularly. We all have an interest in woodworking and while this is a router forum, we all share the OTHER stuff we do as well. I think that's pretty amazing.

Some are pure hobbyists and work just for the enjoyment. Others make things that they sell and get some money for. So I thought I'd open this up and ask...

What would you think is something most people could make, that they could sell for enough money to actually make a little bit extra to put aside for buying more wood (or tools). I know this will vary quite a bit.

What's your outlet if you're selling things? Word of mouth and people come to your house? Do you do the craft shows in your area and rent a booth space? Consignment through a local store?

Let's face it, this woodworking endeavor isn't cheap. Just wondering if there are a lot of totally "self-funded" people like me doing this or if there are more people who have found a way to at least recover costs and/or get ahead some.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Well, interesting question...

For me, I'm not making any money selling what I haven't made much of. So far just made my own jigs, router table, picture frames (mostly for wife), card holders (also for wife and on number 3) and a couple of turnings....all things that a couple of years ago would not have guessed I would have been doing.

A friend of mine at work wants some speaker stands and he says he's willing to pay me for doing them. This will end up being a work to learn project for me with no real monetary gain if you look at the time I will put into it. That to me doesn't matter, I'm doing this right now for the fun of it.

If I get good enough at it (and I'm sure it will take quite a while to even come close to the standards set on this site) then I'll consider it a possiblility to maybe make some cash to support the tools I'd love to upgrade to.

Ed......


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

For me it's the fun of making things whether it be woodworking or woodburning. I give it all away. You can't take it with you! 

Gary


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*Is there something you do to support your habit?*

Just trying to fix a typo in the title...  stupid fingers...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi reikimaster

Making things to sell can be a trap with many doors,,, 

If you love making things out of wood ,like I do ,don't make them for sale, it will become a JOB and the fun will be gone...

We all need a job to make money to live on and buy the toys but making things out of wood for sale is a real hard one and takes big bucks..

Most start out with just one or two then the craft shows/flea markets and so on....trap with many doors..

Many cabinet wood shops,at one time started off in the home shop at one time, same thing for many furniture mfg.,...

If you sit down with pen and pencil and get a true cost what it takes to make a item ,it will blow you away...the shop,the heat,the lights,the tools,your time,the wood stock,etc..you will see you put out 200.oo dollars to make a wooden shelf ,sign,toy,etc. that you can sell for about 15.oo bucks or so...you can get the over head cost down by making more of the same type of item(s) but only to a point...the true cost of making items for sell...

But this is just my 2 cents 
Turning your fun time into a J.O.B.  not good 


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reikimaster said:


> I can see, after being here a while, that there are many talented people that visit regularly. We all have an interest in woodworking and while this is a router forum, we all share the OTHER stuff we do as well. I think that's pretty amazing.
> 
> Some are pure hobbyists and work just for the enjoyment. Others make things that they sell and get some money for. So I thought I'd open this up and ask...
> 
> ...


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

I have to agree with Bj. I read an article recently about an Aussie who makes boxes (and beautiful they are) which he sells at a weekly market. He says he now makes 10 boxes in the time he took to make 1 by setting up jigs and cutting multiple pieces at a time, but I get the impression he makes nothing else and do you really want to be making the same thing all the time? 
I guess it comes down to whether you're a hobbyist who might get lucky with the odd commission or looking for a full-time, self-supporting job.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

I recently did a repair (rebuild) on a stool for someone and had a blast doing it. I considered it a learning experience but I charged $50 for the "job". Over the past several years I have probably "invested" around $10,000 in all the tools, jigs, gizmos, etc. for my expensive hobby and, as Bj stated, not to mention all the other extra costs. There is no way I could ever expect to recoup the "investment". 
NOW! Having said all that. Do I regret the "investment"? NO WAY! Because it's what I want to do and enjoy it very much. When the chance to make a little to help defray the cost comes around I will take it but I have no illusions of "making any money" out of it.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Someone once said, "it's fun 'til it becomes your job". This statement is true. You don't want to lose the "fun" out of a hobby in which you truly love an enjoy.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

*Recovering costs.*

Only one guy I know of to recover costs and get ahead. A man named Sam Maloof. One of his rockers was auctioned off and ONLY brought $180,000.00. Not bad for an 90 year old Craftsman.  
I agree with the others. I'm retired and I don't want another JOB.  I hardly do anything now as it is (just ask Bj).  Woodworking for me is a pleasure not to be ruined by WORK.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

JUst some info and links to Sam Maloof

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Maloof

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Gallery/GalleryBrowseResults.aspx?dir=Sam+Maloof

http://americanart.si.edu/collections/exhibits/maloof/

http://www.djmarks.com/stories/djm/A_Visit_With_Sam_Maloof_93446.asp

http://www.malooffoundation.org/woodworking.cfm


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

There are several woodworkers out there that are making money. I met Kelly Mehler at a woodworking event here in Rochester, NY. He was telling the audience how he made a furniture piece for a customer that took him 2 years to build and charged $60,000. Now he's been doing woodworking for 28 years, but there are people making money. I wish I was one of them.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi reikimaster
> 
> Making things to sell can be a trap with many doors,,,
> 
> ...


Bj., you can at times be really eloquent, and this is one of those times, I and the following posters agree totally with you, one has to decide if it's a hobby or a job, I can understand George charging $50.00 for that stool restoration, a fraction of what a professional would have charged, but that was a one off and an interesting one at that.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

When I charge for something done it is usaully for just cover the material. Now my pen turning I'm going to be in one or two craftshows this year and hope to make a profit so I can stock up on blanks and pen kits but no actual money to put into the bank. I just love woodworking that much. I don't think I would want for a per say a job. It's like fishing I do it because I enjoy it and you see these people that do it for a living where is the enjoyment in that. They have to catch a quota for there show and they take the enjoyment of just sitting there quietly catching nothing to be relaxed in nature. So there a some evilness in working for some real cash with wood working. I refinished some chairs a couple of years back for my some relatives for a some of 10.00 a chair plus materials in all it come to 55.00 and twenty of it went for the sandpaper and stain and poly. So that is how it goes with me.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

I'm hearing a sentiment that I don't totally agree with in this thread. I can understand why people would want to keep this a hobby and not have it as a job.....and there is certainly nothing wrong with that....each has his or her own reasons why they do something.

However, (and there always seems to be a however)....I remember somewhere that it was said by someone that when you find your passion, it never becomes your job.....I suspect that for some of you at least, you could make money at this endevour and never consider it your job.....it would just be your passion......

Having said that, of course when you need to earn money at even your passion there are mundane parts that creep in to the process. That's probably what people are concerned about in this thread because I certainly see the passion from many here.

Ed......


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

To me- turning a hobby into a career -
is a lot like turning a wonderful friendship into a marriage.
When it *works* -- its *wonderful* --
But too many times all you end up with is the worst of both.

I've had people compliment my work -- 
and -- knowing how much I enjoy it - and how frustrated I get with what I do to pay the bills -- ask me why I dont do it full time.

For me -- two main reasons -
1- PACE/TIME
I work at my own pace - and like it that way.
I spent just enough time doing production work in a factory to know I hate it.
To make a living at it - I know I would likely have to work harder and faster than I want to and it would stop being fun.

2-CHOICE
I like being able to choose what projects I do based on what interests me
and I like being able to choose who I do them for. If you are trying to make a living at it -- unless you are very successful -- you rarely have the luxury of turning down a job or a client.
Or - as some have pointed out -- you find yourself having to make multiple copies of the same thing over and over --- thats just not me.
Most of my stuff is 1-offs. Specific projects for specific people.
To me it is just much more pleasant to do something as if it were a gift (which it is as often as not) and to count any money I make in return -- as a plus.

There is an old Tommy Collins song about a street singer in Nashville who was so popular people kept asking him why he didn't go pro --
These lines from that song sum it up for me -

*I **told him once that he could be what people call a star
And he said why boy I'm happy how many of them folks are
I'd hate to have to force a smile and feel myself turn sour
There ain't no put on in my face when I pick the wildwood flower
*


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

There is nothing wrong with charging money for projects you have built. You do not have to take a business approach, just recoup enough to cover your materials and a bit more towards the tools. Woodworking for me will never be a job, I enjoy it far to much. Perhaps a good example of this is the kid's potty chair I build. The chair is built from pine, one section of 1" x 10" x 4' is about right. It requires a bowl, and I get a stainless steel bowl with a lip on it at the dollar store. About a foot of dowel is common for the chairs I build. It is safe to say the material cost is under $10. I sell these chairs unfinished for $50, and they sell as fast as I build them. It delights me knowing that this simple item will become a family heirloom or with a minor alteration give great humor to those watching their dog "drink from the toilet." Doll colectors love these chairs for posing their dolls. A chair with no cut out serves as a "Time out" seat. Word of mouth spreads quickly and you will have a minor source of income which is in no way a job but a joy. Selling custom built wooden pens for $20 or more is an easy way of bringing in some extra cash to help pay for projects or tools. Small wooden storage boxes with a simple lock can be donated to shelters for those in need, or toys for kids too. These items are appreciated and you can get a nice tax deduction. There are many ways to help recoup expenses, just use your imagination.


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## larryg (Nov 26, 2007)

I am very fortunate. I have been doing the wood thing for a number of years. I have had a shop at home for 25 or so years and have gotten a really good collection of tools. About 6 years ago I got to retire early and moved back to my home area of Nashville. I am a dumb old country boy who somehow lucked up and got into computers in the early 60's and managed to fool enough people to get into senior management. (That's how I could afford to get the early out) I worked with my oldest son the next 5 years in his trim business. He did mostly high end houses and I got to learn quite a bit more about wood, building and construction in general. Last Jan he sold his business and moved to the coast of Miss and is just building stairs now. Good move for him and since his wife was from that area it has worked out well. Since he has gone I have been busy building a variety of built-in's, specialty cabinets, mantels, bookshelves, etc. I made quite a few contacts when we were doing the houses and they have come back to me for things they want. People who build high end houses usually don't say much about price so it is pretty lucrative and supports my tool/wordworking addiction. My one rule if that if they need it in a hurry, they should find someone else. I had taken care of my normal living expences through retirement investments etc so any income is a bonus.

So I guess what I am saying is that for a long time I did woodworking as a hobby and invested a good bit of money on tools etc. Now it is paying me back with something that is fun, quite a bit of diversity and it keeps me active and occupied. I don't how much I would enjoy doing the same thing over and over. No, I guess I do know that it would drive me up the wall. If you got in a situation that required you to do this to live, then you do what you have to do. This just kind of happened and has worked out really well for me.

My opinion is if you keep doing it for fun, it is good. There are enough jobs out there in life.

lg

My grandfather told me that opinions are pretty much like rear ends, everyone has one and they usually stink.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

Nice job on the "Potty Chair" Mike,,,,,, BUT it cracks me up LOL LOL LOL hahahahaha

Magazine rack on one side and a holder for TP on the other,,,cracks me up, LOL LOL plus it a bit wide I think,,, one of grandkids is about 4 years old and still needs little help wiping her bottom....LOL LOL ,she was about 2 years old when she last used the potty chair and a roll of TP for her to play with may be a bit of over kill.....LOL LOL ..but it would be a good way to show them what the bath room is for.. ( library is for ) LOL LOL ...


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Mike said:


> There is nothing wrong with charging money for projects you have built. You do not have to take a business approach, just recoup enough to cover your materials and a bit more towards the tools. Woodworking for me will never be a job, I enjoy it far to much. Perhaps a good example of this is the kid's potty chair I build. The chair is built from pine, one section of 1" x 10" x 4' is about right. It requires a bowl, and I get a stainless steel bowl with a lip on it at the dollar store. About a foot of dowel is common for the chairs I build. It is safe to say the material cost is under $10. I sell these chairs unfinished for $50, and they sell as fast as I build them. It delights me knowing that this simple item will become a family heirloom or with a minor alteration give great humor to those watching their dog "drink from the toilet." Doll colectors love these chairs for posing their dolls. A chair with no cut out serves as a "Time out" seat. Word of mouth spreads quickly and you will have a minor source of income which is in no way a job but a joy. Selling custom built wooden pens for $20 or more is an easy way of bringing in some extra cash to help pay for projects or tools. Small wooden storage boxes with a simple lock can be donated to shelters for those in need, or toys for kids too. These items are appreciated and you can get a nice tax deduction. There are many ways to help recoup expenses, just use your imagination.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Pretty much fund it all. I have done the craft show circuit many years ago. It was a ton of work and became like a another job.. every night and weekends. I made enough money one season to pay for all the equipment I had purchased back then... I wouldn't ever attempt to do that again. 

Corey


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Interesting discussion. I know about the slippery slope of turning something that's fun into a job. I had a flight instructor (many years ago) that loved flying. for fun! Small planes. We would go to various fly-in breakfasts and WWII air shows and stuff. Always flying. For fun. Then he got a job as a pilot for an airline. I don't think he ever flew just for fun any more. 

I have several other things in my life that I do just because I WANT to do them. They feel good. I can officially marry people. It's fun. I've officiated at weddings for free for friends and I've done some for money. I consider the money a bonus. I teach meditation. Sometimes for free, but other times I will teach a group and charge for my time (very SMALL charge... heheh... but it's there). Same with some other things I do on a spiritual level, but a LOT of that you do for free for a whole lot of reasons. 

I mentioned in another thread that I was once very active as an artist. And that I sold some pieces for thousands of dollars. Back then I looked at the money as a surprise "gift" and I never really considered art as a career. Certainly something from which I got so much joy could never be a viable career. 

I think I will pursue the woodworking thing in much the same way. I'll do things because I want to do them (or because my wife wants me to do them.. heheh) and if I do something that someone likes enough to say, "hey! I'll give you real money for that!", then I will consider it a surprise gift..... and carry on.

Kinda like finding that $20 in the pocket of a jacket you haven't worn since last year.


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Mike said:


> There is nothing wrong with charging money for projects you have built. ...


Absolutely not --
And I have no problem doing so -- on occassion.
I tend to charge on a sliding scale -- the price varies in inverse proportion to how well I know/like the person I am doing it for.

Agree on the word of mouth thing too -- which can be good OR bad.
I made a table as a gift of love to a dear friend. 
She had a friend who saw it and HAD to have one. 
Didn't really want to -- I had made the one intentionally unique.
But as a favor to my friend I did it -
-- and YES - I made sure to charge THEM enough to cover the materials cost of BOTH tables.

And even making a few variations of a particular piece and killing a summer weekend at the flea market can be fun.

The only thing I can't see _myself_ doing is doing it for a _living_. I know my craftsmanship is not of the level that I could build and sell one chair and live of the profit for a year (now THAT would be making business FUN). 
If I had to get up every morning knowing I HAD to spend x amount of time in the shop - finish x projects whether I wanted to or not - AND get them sold -- or I didnt eat that month. To me that would get old quick.
Like I said though -- that's me -- your mileage may very well vary --
And if it does -- and you can enjoy yourself day in and day out making a living at something you love -- you are TRULY blessed.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Good post Cowboy,

I think we're getting closer to all agreeing on this topic.

Ed......


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