# Rockwell Band Saw Vibration 28-243



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

Have googled and checked forums RE tuneups etc. Taken off belt - ran motor- pretty smooth. No play in motor shaft, lower wheel nice and tight. Upper wheel has some rattle or play in the shaft where it is pressed into the tensioning bracket. I dont think this is good, but - - - -anyone familiar with this critter? I know its a very popular basic design. I will probably replace the tires with urethane in the future but I dont "think" they are the problem. Any ideas? I have been bandsaw less for 20 years years, trying to get back into the swing. Thanks in advance!!!


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

With no belt or blade attached, and being sure the bearings are in good shape, turn the wheels and mark the bottom when they stop. Do it several times. That's the heavy side.
I used large paper clamps on a saw I had to balance the wheels. Others drill out excess wheel metal, but I don't recommend it. Take the wire grips off the clamps.

Are the tires truly round? That will create vibrations.
How about the pulleys? Are they true, and not sloppy on the shafts?
Old belts will also be a nuisance.

Picture of the paper clamps.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

AxlMyk said:


> With no belt or blade attached, and being sure the bearings are in good shape, turn the wheels and mark the bottom when they stop. Do it several times. That's the heavy side.
> I used large paper clamps on a saw I had to balance the wheels. Others drill out excess wheel metal, but I don't recommend it. Take the wire grips off the clamps.
> 
> Are the tires truly round? That will create vibrations.
> ...


So what you were trying to say in the first section... Let me get this straight. Take off the blade and spin the wheel. Mark the bottom of where it stops. Spin again. If the mark is still on the bottom, add a clip to the top of the wheel. Spin again. Note where it stops. Repeat until it stops at random spots instead of at the same stop. Bottom wheel would be without the drive belt on the pulley...

Is that what you were saying?

Sounded like the OP described play in the upper wheel "in the shaft where it is pressed into the tensioning bracket"... which might be Delta BEARING Part Number: 920-04-010-7273or Delta HINGE Part Number: 426-02-059-0001, depending where the play is. The bearing is what the wheel shaft rides in. The Hinge is what the back of the shaft fits into and it then attaches to the sliding bracket of the adjuster.


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

*Shake - Rock -Roll ---L E S S but-*

Thanks everybody - I have tried the wheel balance suggestion and top wheel was heavy on one side, put on the clip, now I'm getting random stopping points. OK there I guess. Bottom wheel gave me erratic stopping points so I guess its close enough.

Mike - Thanks for blow up - Need to figure out how to save it or print it now!! ANYWAY, the fit between No. 21 and No 22 in the upper wheel assmbly is a loose and wobbly fit, maybe a 1/16 of wiggle. Doesnt seem right but it does work under a compressing action from the blade tension. I "think" its a press fit since I cant find a snap ring without disassembling the whole thing.

Double check on the pulley alignment, out a 1/4 inch. Put belt on and a lot of vibration now gone in bottom wheel assembly. Next stop top wheel with blade and see what happens then.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

wude butcher said:


> Thanks everybody - I have tried the wheel balance suggestion and top wheel was heavy on one side, put on the clip, now I'm getting random stopping points. OK there I guess. Bottom wheel gave me erratic stopping points so I guess its close enough.
> 
> Mike - Thanks for blow up - Need to figure out how to save it or print it now!! ANYWAY, the fit between No. 21 and No 22 in the upper wheel assmbly is a loose and wobbly fit, maybe a 1/16 of wiggle. Doesnt seem right but it does work under a compressing action from the blade tension. I "think" its a press fit since I cant find a snap ring without disassembling the whole thing.
> 
> Double check on the pulley alignment, out a 1/4 inch. Put belt on and a lot of vibration now gone in bottom wheel assembly. Next stop top wheel with blade and see what happens then.


Right click, Save Image as.

Between 21 (shaft) and 22 (hinge), I don't see anything holding them together, let alone a c-clip. Of the two, I think the hinge would wear first and the shaft is most probably harder metal. Taking it apart would tell you which... and to replace either, that assembly would have to be apart anyways. 

On balancing the wheel... I'm thinking the clips are a temporary fix to find out just how much it is out of balance and where. For permanent, easier than welding would be weight all the clips. Go to a tire shop and buy a small amout of custom wheel weight tape. Measure it and cut. Tape it and temporarily tape it center mass of where the clips where. Adjust t get it right, then pull the protective layer off the tape and set it permanently.

Could also be a welded weight or epoxied. Whatever.

Curious what you find.


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

Looks like I have a project - first light am 9/22!! Back in touch later - Thanks all


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

This might add up a little on your knowledge regarding band saw tune up: How to Set Up a Bandsaw - Fine Woodworking Article


----------



## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Here's a link to the parts list download.

HTH,
Bill


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

MAFoElffen said:


> So what you were trying to say in the first section... Let me get this straight. Take off the blade and spin the wheel. Mark the bottom of where it stops. Spin again. If the mark is still on the bottom, add a clip to the top of the wheel. Spin again. Note where it stops. Repeat until it stops at random spots instead of at the same stop. Bottom wheel would be without the drive belt on the pulley...
> 
> Is that what you were saying?]


Yep. That's it.

The tensioning hinge can become loose from over tensioning the blade. Even bent.
It's a replaceable part. Itura makes a heavier one, but I've never had the need for one.


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

*More Piddling*

Well, been several days, here a slight update - Taking the handles off the bulldog clips before bump testing it was a great idea. Too bad I didnt listen. No major damage done to saw or myself. Realigned pulleys and put belt back on with under tension. Results: SMoooooooth. Decided to put a little tension on belt and realign, result: VvvvviiiiBBBrration again. What the heck? Anyway: I'm waiting on some new poly tires which are due in a couple of days. Be back then, in the meantime, whats up with the belt tension and vibration??

Thanks for update on parts blow up. The only wobble I have (slight) is between the so called Hinge and the pin that is pressed (?) into it. The shaft wiggles a little. Good to know parts are available. Surely the shaft is harder that that pot metal casting. Anyway, thanks everybody, stay on board until parts come in!!!!!!


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Both Mike and I (another Mike) have said that we suspected the hinge as being bent or worn out. I gave you the part number for it. Mike said this is a known weak point in this make/model. Mike also said there is an aftermarket replacement <<_*Itura* makes a heavier one_>>. That might solve future problems.

Sound like early on that "you" suspected this part also, as you said that the only apparent play was between the top pulley axle and tensioner hinge. So Saturday night you said that Sunday morning that you were going to disassemble down to that point and check that out for wear or being bent... did you? What did you find?


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

*Mike & Mike et al*

I have not removed the "hinge" from the saw, only checked that play between the shaft and the hinge. Shaft checks out straight, I suspect that the hinge is worn from use or over-tensioning. Right now, I can run the saw with a fairly loose belt and the bottom wheel rotates very smooth and vibration free. I'm waiting for the new tires to arrive and then I can check out the upper wheel with blade installed.
I will then know if I need to replace the hinge (I think).

The belt thing still has me puzzled. Why does it vibrate with a tight belt and not with a loose belt. I mean a belt that is easily deflected vs. one that is not? I would think it would be opposite, what am I missing?


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Uf it smooths out as you decrease the tension on the drive belt--Another obvious thing to look at is the alignment of the pulleys--if the motor pulley is not lined up with the saw, seems that vibration would increase with belt tension. The belt itself may be worn as well. I've had a link style belt to put on mine for several months, but have not yet experimented with that step--mine's running smooth enough to not mess with yet. 

Would an incorrect belt cause or add to the vibration as well??


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

I have a new belt installed, a Delta belt. The pulleys are or were lined up and like I said, with only the bottom wheel turning, runs smooth!!! Tighten the belt with correct pulley alignment, back to vibrating. Scratch, Scratch????? No wobble in wheel and motor has no end play or loose bearings.


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

wude butcher said:


> I have a new belt installed, a Delta belt. The pulleys are or were lined up and like I said, with only the bottom wheel turning, runs smooth!!! Tighten the belt with correct pulley alignment, back to vibrating. Scratch, Scratch????? No wobble in wheel and motor has no end play or loose bearings.


I am guessing you have a failing bearing that is only noticeable under load!


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> I am guessing you have a failing bearing that is only noticeable under load!


It would be unsafe to check the setup while the saw is cutting some load!


----------



## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

This is another reason to get rid of Chinese belts that come on new machines.

Actually, my Griz lathe still has the original belts, and after 9 years, still running exceptionally smooth. Add a little belt dressing every 2 years or so, but zero slipping at very high feeds.


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Chinese items are now all over the market. It’s just hard to get rid of them!


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

bosox said:


> It would be unsafe to check the setup while the saw is cutting some load!


Jack, tightening the belt "loads" the bearings more than running with a loose belt or turning the wheels by hand! I'm NOT suggesting testing while trying to resaw an 8" wide board!:laugh:

I have seen this many times over the years. take off the drive belt, motor runs very quiet, reinstall belt and the bearings get noisy. I am guessing as I cannot see the bandsaw, but that is my first thought.. may be a motor bearing, may be the lower wheel bearing... but if it vibrates just tightening the drive belt, I'd say it is one or the other(I'd probably go for the lower wheel bearing first).


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> Jack, tightening the belt "loads" the bearings more than running with a loose belt or turning the wheels by hand! I'm NOT suggesting testing while trying to resaw an 8" wide board!:laugh:
> 
> I have seen this many times over the years. take off the drive belt, motor runs very quiet, reinstall belt and the bearings get noisy. I am guessing as I cannot see the bandsaw, but that is my first thought.. may be a motor bearing, may be the lower wheel bearing... but if it vibrates just tightening the drive belt, I'd say it is one or the other(I'd probably go for the lower wheel bearing first).


Oh, don’t get me wrong, man. I was just reminding everyone to observe safety every time! But that’s really funny if I really meant it that way. Made my day!


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Glad it made your day! I'm with you 100% Jack.. safety first.


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Have you heard of that near tragic news that happened in a school shop in Florida? It’s been trending all over woodworking forum sites but I doubt if somebody posted it here.


----------



## steamfab (Jun 22, 2012)

BandSawBlog | News, reviews and articles about band saw blades and partsBandSawBlog | News, reviews and articles about band saw blades and parts might have answers for your questions. Or you could watch Mr. Snodgrass videos on youtube regarding band saws.


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

No, I had not, but googled it. Here is a link for those who have not seen it. probably should have been in the safety section...

Teen?s hair ripped from scalp during shop class  - New York Daily News


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Maybe you can repost it to safety section. To inform everyone.


----------



## wude butcher (Jun 14, 2012)

Back again! As a Jack also, I was a little confused until I saw that I was named after someone else on this board, or they after me. Anyway, I received my new poly belts and installed them this afternoon. No step for a lame stepper. All is back together with no vibration using the old blade. Now, the belt is still loose and I will probably use it this way until time and or finances allow me to replace lower bearings. I am still concerned about the play in the upper shaft and hinge. Anyone else have this model and noticed any wiggle when changing blades etc.? The saw is in really good condition and has been well care for since its origins in the early 80's. I guess sooner or later its time for a little overhaul. Thirty years is a long time going.

By the way, the guy I purchased this from has an old Delta Scroll Saw 24"(!!!!!!) and weighs about 125 lbs. A Real chunk of cast iron, two men to move it. It can be had for about a 1.00 per lb. Its a big horse of a "scroll" saw!! Worth it?


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

bosox said:


> Maybe you can repost it to safety section. To inform everyone.


Done.


----------



## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> No, I had not, but googled it. Here is a link for those who have not seen it. probably should have been in the safety section...
> 
> Teen?s hair ripped from scalp during shop class* - New York Daily News



Actually, she was very lucky. Looks like it just pulled out her hair. 

After having to cut the scalp, shirt, and caps out of 2 different guys, on two different machines....she was lucky indeed.

It was a very bloody mess.


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

wude butcher said:


> A Real chunk of cast iron, two men to move it. It can be had for about a 1.00 per lb. Its a big horse of a "scroll" saw!! Worth it?


Does it have a Delta 882 work lamp on it? That's probably worth as much, or more than the saw alone.


----------



## bosox (Jun 12, 2012)

Harrison67 said:


> Actually, she was very lucky. Looks like it just pulled out her hair.
> 
> After having to cut the scalp, shirt, and caps out of 2 different guys, on two different machines....she was lucky indeed.
> 
> It was a very bloody mess.


She’s really lucky afterall.


----------

