# New Router Table questions



## AlanvsDbdYAkK4 (Feb 12, 2005)

I am going to purchase a new router table in the foreseeable future. I decided not to build one because I want it done, and done right, in the near future as contrasted with when I would finish it. 

My "research" has led me to focus on the Excalibur 200C (with cast iron top) and the Incra Combo 3 (perhaps with 25" instead of 17" LS) 

Both units appear to get very favorable reviews. The problem I am encountering is that while good claims can be made for each of them I have little basis for deciding which would be the better long term investment. Since this will be the last router table I purchase, I want one which I can "grow into" and will allow me to learn as much as I can about the uses of the router.

I would appreciate people's thoughts on how someone who knows what they are doing (which excludes me) would decide between these two (apparently) very good tables. If it makes any difference, I have just acquired a Porter Cable 7518 to permanently mount in it. I also intend to purchase all of the "goodies" to go with it at the time of purchase.

Any thoughts/guidance would be appreciated.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum Alan . 
Here's my take on it . I ordered the general 200 and sent it back because some people are having issues with the cast table interfacing with the insert properly . In other words it wasn't level . 
So I went with Incra . Although I haven't put it together yet but I believe I made a great choice, and you can definitely grow with the Incra from what I've seen . I'm looking forward to doing box joints on the Inca etc . With the Incras fence system you have a superior fence than most for making micro adjustments


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I have and Incra LS25 with an Incra/JessEm Mast-R-Lift II and a PC 7518 router. I built my own top and table, you can see it in my uploads. I have a Wixey 525 router height gauge as well.

A couple of thoughts: 

The LS system is awesome. none of the other components make as much a difference.
The LS17 is probably all you will ever need though the price difference of the 25 is not much at all. The 25 takes up more space. I would have been just as happy with the 17.
The Mast-R-Lift II (really a JessEm product) is an awesome lift. Precise, solid, easy to use, excellent lock. I wouldn't scrimp on this area.
With the PC7518 in the MRL II, I get 100% above table bit change. Fast and easy. 
Think about dust collection. Fence based systems work but unless you get the superfence for the LS, you have to do below table DC. The good news is below table DC is actually superior to fence based if you do it right. If you use the Incra cleansweep inserts, you will have a really great DC system. A cleansweep shroud is a good way to go but you can build just as effective system for a few bucks. I have only below table and get great collection.

You can see my RT here


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I chose the Incra System because I enjoy the versatility of the system and the ease of setup.
It has so many joints that it can produce for all sorts of projects. The accuracy AND repeatability are unsurpassed, IMO.
Combined with a nice router and/or lift and the Incra can really expand what you thought you could do with a router table system.

I have had my fence for 14 years (25"), I think. Never had a problem with it and I do a lot of work with it. I have expanded the system to include the Wonder Fence about 6 years ago. It too has performed flawlessly.

I know some love cast iron for work surfaces and I am one of them. But, you really do not give up anything with a table top built for Incra. The melamine top with raised dots is a really nice work surface and I have never wished I had bought something else.

I use a Milwaukee 5625-20 with a Woodpecker PRL V2 router lift. The American made version is no longer made so I would have to suggest using a Bosch router instead. Porter Cable is not the company it once was, much like Milwaukee. The PRL V2 lift has fine, above table adjustment within a 0.001" and quick lift. A robust and very well made American tool.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Another vote for the Incra system... hands down...

I could easily cut and paste what Brad had to say, word for word...just a great product, great company backed by excellent customer support.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Alan, only you can decide which table is the right choice for you. Lets start with your router and figure out the table from that. The 7518 is a workhorse but must be turned in its base to adjust the height. This is why many people opt for a router lift. You can also install the 7518 on a mounting plate which will let you pop it out of the table for much easier adjustments. So your table will have to work with the choice you make. If your router table will be in a controlled climate you shouldn't have problems. A cast iron table exposed to big temperature changes will rust; by the ocean same problem. If you want to dedicate time each year to prevent rust then cast iron is your choice. (I prefer a quick spray of Windex and a wipe with a clean rag on a table with Formica laminate.)

Since you mentioned Incra this means you want to use the "Whistles and bells" method of routing. IE.. Adjustment down to thousandths of an inch accuracy. Many people do. This web site was founded by people who use the "Keep it simple" method. Both ways work; this is a personal choice. I have used both methods and prefer the "Keep it simple" style. One example of this is brass set up bars instead of taking measurements. I would encourage you to read as much of the forums as possible before you spend your money. The better informed you are the happier you will be with your purchase.

Here are some of my routers and tables. The last table belongs to another member and it has an Incra set up on it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mean while I went w/ JessEm..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

not sure if its a bell or a whistle, but I really like that side crank feature on the JessEm's... Woodpecker came out with one a while back for their lifts, then stop carrying it for some reason.


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## Roloff (Jan 30, 2009)

If you're interested in the real long term, there's no question: buy Incra. It is the only system that does not rely on perfect vision. The only thing as certain as death and taxes is that vision fades with age. If you're ever in a room full of long term woodworkers, chances are good there will be lots of bald heads, hearing aids, coughing -- and glasses for closeup work. It's the natural order of things. There's not much we can do to avoid baldness but we can use dust control, hearing protectors and Incra tools to help with the rest of it.


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## AlanvsDbdYAkK4 (Feb 12, 2005)

Thanks to all for the helpful advice.

The "decider" for me was Roloff's note about the effects of aging on the proper use of tools. I have already switched to digital readouts on most of my measurement tools because they are of a size and clarity which I can read. Consistent with Mike's comment about KISS, I use measuring bars or other things when possible to avoid relying on my ability to see the correct measurement.

For other people who made useful suggestions, I was planning on getting the PRL V2 lift but I am going to take another look at the Mast-R-Lift II based on the comment above. In light of two references to JessEm products, I am going to look at them again.

Since "dust control" is very important to me (medical problems), I was planning on using both above and below the table dust collection with hoses into a Y collector. Since I live in Phoenix, I also have an evaporative cooler in the garage. When I am "making dust" I turn it on high and open a window near where I am working.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Alan, in case you are wondering about dust separators they really do work and make a huge difference in extending your vacuums filter life. While one review showed the Dust Deputy Deluxe to do the best job when we tested them we found there was not that much difference between brands. They all work. Here is a side by side look at the Dust Deputy Deluxe and the CV-06 which is much sturdier.


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

I like the Incra leg system for a table since it allows future additions if easily building and incorporating a cabinet with storage into it. This was a fast and easy way to put a top of the line system together...
I also have a second router table cabinet that I made. It did take a good bit of time to make it.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Alan, yes, the Incra's 1/32" granularity helps me a lot - my eyesight isn't what it used to be. Another thing that I have is the Wixey height gauge (WS525, iirc). It's a lot easier to use and read than a mechanical gauge or a tape measure. You have to get it installed and aligned properly but once you do it's a lot easier to set the exact height you need. I regularly check mine for accuracy and it's still within a couple 1/1000" of another gauge.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Mike said:


> Alan, in case you are wondering about dust separators they really do work and make a huge difference in extending your vacuums filter life. While one review showed the Dust Deputy Deluxe to do the best job when we tested them we found there was not that much difference between brands. They all work. Here is a side by side look at the Dust Deputy Deluxe and the CV-06 which is much sturdier.


Thanks for posting this Mike, I hadn't run across the CV-06 yet. Every time I'm about to commit to at separator I find too many bad reviews to justify the cost. Until I find a robust, cost effective solution, I find that pantie hose over the filter keeps the fines out of the filters pleats very well.

I apologize for the hi-jack Alan.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Thanks for posting this Mike, I hadn't run across the CV-06 yet. Every time I'm about to commit to at separator I find too many bad reviews to justify the cost. Until I find a robust, cost effective solution, I find that pantie hose over the filter keeps the fines out of the filters pleats very well.
> 
> I apologize for the hi-jack Alan.


Check out the Thien separator. You can build it for cheap. The design scales up and down nicely. I've built two, one for my 4" DC and one for my shop vac. They work really well. Much better than pantie hose!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The Thien design with the baffle looks like a step up for my existing system. I use a fiber drum instead of a trash can with the Rockler right angle dust separator attachment. I think the addition of a baffle as he designed could make a big difference. I also noted that the exhaust from the drum is vertical and centered. Different that what I set up with a second right angle attachment facing away from the intake flow. I think centering the outlet so it doesn't interfere with the cyclonic flow could really make a difference. I'm going to make those changes and see if it helps. 

I also recall that someone suggested drilling hole in the top and using a dowel with a foot on the in-drum end to check how full the bin is. Seems to me it would be a good idea to add a grommet to the lid so the dowel opening doesn't spew sawdust. The stick is lifted, then pressed down to the top of the sawdust to measure its depth. That means checking and marking the dowel to indicate the fill level. I only have a 30 gallon drum, but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with a larger one.

My dust system ports outside through a large, reusable filter, which dramatically increased suction over the old filter bag setup. All my dust creating tools are grouped close together, so I just use one flexible hose and move it around. 

Thanks for reposting this PhilBA


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I can't remember exactly where I saw it but In the past few days I came across a twist on the dual collection concept. 
There was a flex pipe from the fence port leading down into the motor chamber, and a larger pipe from that plenum off to the DC.
I thought that was a brilliant solution. It actually had a thin vertical baffle at the back of the plenum to direct the upper dust into the lower extraction port.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> The Thien design with the baffle looks like a step up for my existing system. I use a fiber drum instead of a trash can with the Rockler right angle dust separator attachment. I think the addition of a baffle as he designed could make a big difference. I also noted that the exhaust from the drum is vertical and centered. Different that what I set up with a second right angle attachment facing away from the intake flow. I think centering the outlet so it doesn't interfere with the cyclonic flow could really make a difference. I'm going to make those changes and see if it helps.
> 
> I also recall that someone suggested drilling hole in the top and using a dowel with a foot on the in-drum end to check how full the bin is. Seems to me it would be a good idea to add a grommet to the lid so the dowel opening doesn't spew sawdust. The stick is lifted, then pressed down to the top of the sawdust to measure its depth. That means checking and marking the dowel to indicate the fill level. I only have a 30 gallon drum, but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with a larger one.
> 
> ...


The whole idea of the cyclone is to give the dust time to settle out of the flow. The way they work is the air flow with dust/chips enters on the side and travels around perimeter while slowing down. This causes the dust/chips to drop out of the flow. The gap around the edge of the baffle lets the dust settle below the cyclone and it doesn't get scrubbed. The center outlet allows the air flow to make more than a full 360 turn before heading off to the collector/vac. 

One of my separators has a clear bucket and you can see the action. I ran it without the baffle for a while just to see what happens. Really drives home an understanding of how it works.


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