# A Question About Using Dowels



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

The issue of edge joining using Dowels is pretty straight forward, or so I suspect in that I have never used dowels yet but am about to start. 

My question has to do with jointing where one end of a workpiece, the end grain end, butts against the face of the board being joined to it. Not that this would be a real common joint for me to need as my primary use for the new jig is for edge jointing. I am waiting for a copy of the Dowl It 1000 jig to arrive and think that it probably is not be designed for what I have just asked about. Just wondering.

I'm wanting to see if the results using dowels will actually be better than what I'm getting using biscuits. Some of the reading on the matters implies that using dowels might be better than using biscuits. I have not been happy with using biscuits for edge joining due to having to sand the joined boards as the mis-match is often several thousandths, and sanding is my least favorite thing to do in the shop.

Jerry


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## mrblint (Feb 6, 2014)

Dowels are stronger than biscuits, true.

There are several kinds of doweling jigs. 

The kind that deliver the most accurate results, where accuracy counts, will place the holes relative to a single reference face, the face that shows. In that way, minor differences in thickness when edge-joining boards will only affect the underside where lippage is less significant. 

Self-centering jigs put the dowels at the midline and thus they align the midlines of the boards to each other, which can result in lippage on both faces of the board, and so more sanding is required when the board thicknesses are not perfectly the same along their entire length.

A self-centering jig also is less flexible, sometimes even completely incapable, when the goal is to place the dowels at a location other than at the centerline. If the clamp opens wide enough, you can offset the dowel location from the centerline with a shim. If the clamp only opens two inches wide, you could not use the jig on a leg 2.5 inches thick, of course.

Top of the line doweling jigs that use a single reference face are DowelMax and JointGenie and Jessem's newer version.

One of the things to be on the lookout for when evaluating a jig for a project is whether it can handle all of the different joining requirements--how wide can the legs be, how narrow can the rails be? can it place holes at arbitrary locations?

Another thing is whether the jig requires you do to a lot of measuring, marking, and aligning by sight (to be avoided whenever possible since these things introduce opportunities for human error) or if it requires little or no measuring and marking, but aligns the jig to the stock using positive stops or clamps that are part of the jig.

Another thing to consider is a) whether the dowel holes are proportionally spaced relative to the dowel size, or, by contrast, having equidistant centers no matter what the dowel size; and b) where the first hole is located relatively to the reference edge (or sometimes a reference mark) of the jig. Jigs that use proportional spacing (e.g. JointGenie) with the first hole closer to the reference edge are able to handle narrower stock than jigs whose holes are the same distance apart whether it's a 3/8" dowel or a 1/4" dowel, and whose first hole is fairly far from the jig's reference edge.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Dusty,
Thanks for the information on doweling jigs. The old rule still applies, you get what you pay for. One can't expect a less expensive jig like the Dowl It 1000 to do what one that costs over six times that muchs, but I decided to try the Dowl It and see what happens. 

I do understand that a self-centering jig will not allow two workpieces that are not "Exactly" the same thickness to be joined so that the edges are flush. My Dewalt 535 Planer will not plane two boards to the same thickness. I will plane them to within two to three thousands and while that is close, it not "EXACT" and the error will certainly exist. I probably will end up by buying one of those expensive jigs before it all over with. For a little while I'll mess around with the Dowel It. I can't help but wonder why it is so popular when it is so handicapped due the issue discussed above. Your suggestion of shimming the jig so that the holes are off center and then properly orientating them to match sure sounds like it makes sense, I'll try it.

Jerry


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I ussually use pocket holes if the joint is not visible. If joint is visible I use biscuits but always use kreg clamps to posstion joint the nice thing about biscuits there's enough play to get alignment kreg clamps hold tight until glue dries.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

roofner said:


> I ussually use pocket holes if the joint is not visible. If joint is visible I use biscuits but always use kreg clamps to posstion joint the nice thing about biscuits there's enough play to get alignment kreg clamps hold tight until glue dries.



Just a difference in thinking about the Kreg Pocket Hole system. I have one but personally I don' want to use screws in my higher end work. It's just a personal thing and in no way reflects on the use of screws if one decides to use them.

I admit that my experimenting with using dowels is to find out if their use will minimize the mis-fit that I get when using biscuits. I may well be in for BIG disappointment. Will have to wait and see after I try the jig.



Jerry


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I have had succes using dowls when gluing up boards that really want to warp and move in directions other than flat. None of these projects are old enough to say "it worked!" But I can say "so far it is working!" Haha. Btw these are all personal projects using up wood that didn't get used in paid projects because the wood was dodo 

I recently made the dive into domino. I know that isn't something we can all afford, but I recently sold off some stuff and freed up some cash. I made a move recently and haven't really used it yet, but today I am shop shopping and hope to put it and everything else to work soon  

Pray for the end of the Arctic Vortex. ..


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## 4aggies (Sep 11, 2010)

Look forward to hearing more about the Domino for joinery. Cost is high but it seems like a great machine.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

End grain dowelling into face grain is easy as pie if you can clamp both pieces to exactly where you want them. Drill into the _opposite_ face from where the end grain board intersects. These holes will go entirely through the face grain board and to the prescribed depth into the end grain board. Using a saddle square is helpful in this process for the setup and certainly this doesn't work for all situations! After all of the glue is dried, use a flush-cut saw and cutoff the extended end. Just make sure you haven't done this where it will show. Typically spacing of dowels should be about 10x their diameter...and of course clean out the holes prior to glue / dowel insertion.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

OPG3 said:


> End grain dowelling into face grain is easy as pie if you can clamp both pieces to exactly where you want them. Drill into the _opposite_ face from where the end grain board intersects. These holes will go entirely through the face grain board and to the prescribed depth into the end grain board. Using a saddle square is helpful in this process for the setup and certainly this doesn't work for all situations! After all of the glue is dried, use a flush-cut saw and cutoff the extended end. Just make sure you haven't done this where it will show. Typically spacing of dowels should be about 10x their diameter...and of course clean out the holes prior to glue / dowel insertion.
> 
> Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia



Otis,
I've done what you described quite often without using jig but I'm wanting to be able to to hide the dowels if or when I use them on and end grain to face of a board. I'm just starting to look at the new JessEm jig, will try the new Dowl It 1000 as it just arrived. It's still only 30 degrees outside but warming up, supposed to be in the sixties tomorrow, sure hope so, then I can go play.

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Just looked at the demo on the JessEm 08350 and it really looks good, I did order it and hope that it works as well as it looks in the demo. I just ordered the 3/8" set of busings for now, can get the other ones later if I feel that I need them.

My tool budget for the year is getting used up fast.

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I did try the Dowl It jig, it was a long way out of calibration. I got it closer to center but still have some more to do. Got it to being about .016" of being centered. Most of what I I'm doing is by trial and error. The jig is well made and and will work well, but am looking forward to the Jessem product.

Jerry


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## mrblint (Feb 6, 2014)

The Jessem 08350 looks very well made, and I was tempted to purchase it. But there were two things I did not like about it: 


1. It is designed to be aligned by eye to a tick mark you place at the midline of where you want the array of dowels to be placed. I hope this doesn't get reformatted:

O O O O O 
|

Although it is possible to use the edge of the jig as a reference edge as well, it is not really optimized for that approach. This midline-alignment to a pencil line makes it something of a non-jig experience, open to small errors of misalignment. They should really picture a combination square, because you'll be using one a lot with the Jessem jig.

2. The hole-centers are the same distance apart no matter what size dowel you're using. The jig is not really suitable for narrow rails. I don't remember exactly what the minimum stock thickness is for placing two 1/4 dowels on the end-grain of a rail--I cannot find my notes--but probably close to 2". I think the DowelMax is the same in this regard, and the Veritas. By contrast, the Joint Genie can put two 1/4-inch dowels in rail as narrow as 1-1/4" because its hole-centers get closer together as you move from 3/8 to 5/16 to 1/4 dowel size.

I eventually bought the Joint Genie Pro and it requires no marking with pencils or any measuring at all, makes offsets/reveals easy, and handles stock from the very narrow to the very wide. It looks much less sexy than the DowelMax and the Jessem but it is really the most capable doweling jig in that price range.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

The Joint Genie looks very interesting, Dusty. Thanks for the info.


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## mrblint (Feb 6, 2014)

Great Da Vinci quote. He was a smart fella.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

mrblint said:


> The Jessem 08350 looks very well made, and I was tempted to purchase it. But there were two things I did not like about it:
> 
> 
> 1. It is designed to be aligned by eye to a tick mark you place at the midline of where you want the array of dowels to be placed. I hope this doesn't get reformatted:
> ...



Dusty,

You may well correct on all points. Wish I had read what you are saying before ordering the JessEm tool. I'll just have to try it when it gets here and try it. The Dowl It jig might have to be used on the the thinner rails that are to narrow for the JessEm. Might end up with three jigs, the Dowl It, the Jessem, and Dowel Genie. This is getting expensive.

Jerry


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## mrblint (Feb 6, 2014)

The Joint Genie can handle stock 1-1/4" wide if a small shim is placed between the end-stop and the bar, or 1-3/8" wide without one, according to my measurements, and the DowelMax can handle stock 1.5" wide according to the dimensions they sent me in response to my inquiry. I've never seen a DowelMax in person. 

Here's a picture of the Joint Genie 1/4" bar stripped of everything, and a sketch of the DowelMax dimensions showing the distance of the hole from the reference edge and the distance between holes (just to be clear, it's not a drawing of the jig, just of the hole spacings)


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