# Prabably Talked About This Before...



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

This thread is directed to members that use the Incra TS LS system. First of all, from some place I have been given the idea that Mark Mueller is no longer doing his demos on the system. I may be wrong about this point.

In his demos, at least the ones tha I have watched, he does not have a blade guard on the TS. I have been wondering if because of this fact that it may have led to Incra's decision to quit doing the demos due to the safety risk created by not using a blade guard, and the liability that may be incurred by people watching the demo and being led to believing that this is a safe practice.

Also, do you members that use the system use your saw without a blade guard? My saw is such that the blade guard that came with the saw cannot be used due to the rear rail that is part of the Incra system. I do use the MJ splitter and sometimes the magnetic feather board and a great deal of caution. 

Only after experiencing what could have been a couple of serious kick backs have I learned about the potential danger. I think that a lot of people can use their saws without a blade guard for quite some time and believe that they are doing everything right and then one day, it happens, and they get hurt with a serious kick back. It is only then that the light comes on as to what they have been playing footsy with. I do encourage the use of the MJ splitter and being aware of what causes a kick back and the potential danger if you are working without a blade guard. That is applicable to anyone using a saw without a guard and is of course not limited to those using the Incra LS system.

I talked to Mark Mueller about this issue sometime back and he suggested that the back rail be split giving room for the original guard to be installed, but in that I have my router table located to the far left end of the rails, this did not seem like a practical set up for me so I continue to work without the guard and as I have stressed before, I try to be very careful, but have still experienced a couple of kick backs, both times they occurred when trying to cut small parts, which I will avoid to attempt in the future. The only reason that I did not get hit was due to my habit of standing off to the left of the blade when cutting with the saw, especially withn ripping.

I have written to Mark about this matter of his demos, but have not heard back from him yet. If you have watched the demos that I am referring to, you will know what I'm talking about and wonder if you have had the same thoughts that I have about the issue of no blade gurard that I am referring to?


Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry I have to confess that I don't use mine either. It doesn't go on or come off that easy and I do a lot of operations where I am not cutting all the way through the board. I also try to be very careful and I very rarely ever lose control of a piece.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry,

I forget what your specific Craftsman saw model was (forgive me). I believe I'm remembering that your saw came with a splitter that attached to the rear of the yoke and wrapped around the back of the saw, which was okay stock, because the stock fence (on yours) just had a front rail... So adding the Incra LS/TS with it's front and rear rails threw I wrench in there. I understand that.

On my Rockwell Shop saw, same thing... It was an antique (by measure) and I built in front and rear rails. The shop manual has a blade guard pictured on it's cover, but the guard and splitter is not listed in any parts manual of my saw... I made zero insert covers for it with splitters made into the inserts, but do not have an overhead guard for it. *** Just you adding that splitter system to your inserts helped with that issue.

But, (like Otis has concerns about,) safety... As a contractor or sub-contractor, if I have someone working for me or with me, I couldn't let "them" use it without a guard. And besides, statistically... You know that TS Kickbacks actually make up a small percentage of recorded yearly TS accidents. The largest percentage is from making contact with the blade. So that "blade guard" being there is directly related to that. (What was Theo's winning saying? "Keep fingers away from sharp whirly things!")

I picked up a scrap hood from habitat for humanity, but then figured out that trying to reach so far around the back rail with a thin piece of stock for a splitter to hold a guard with a DC hose attached... just wasn't going to work. It was if'y, at best, to try to make it work without a DC hose!!! I tried, but it just wasn't going as planned for me. Then I saw PhilP's overhead guard plan that he posted and thought that I would get around to building that (never did).

The new saw... The stock overhead guard is basic and mounts to the top of the riving knife. Works okay, as long as you don't hook up any DC... but that is one of the goals right? Hooked up to DC it's tends to try to flex my riving knife, so then is a concern to me for accuracy and safety. SO... I've been using trying to use that guard without DC. (The goal for me is to still have both.)

The work-around for that is to use an overhead rail for the DC hose using very light gauge DC hose... Like the Bies'es. New-- $250 to $300 just for the arm and lightweight DC hose. $600 to $750 if I went with a Biesemeyer overhead blade guard kit new (53" right reach). Just to reach a hose on a guard attached to the riving knife? I'd still have to pull the hood to do overhead cuts and grooving! 

I again thought about making the design PhilP submitted. I thought about updating that design to one like the newer panel saws. I added up the time and materials... I thought about what I had and what I wanted. At the time, I had some extra money and thought that if I bought "one" as an option/accessory, from another saw, and just adapted it to my saw... I'd come out ahead, with what I wanted, how it worked it to work for functionality and safety... and come out ahead and to my satisfaction. Of course I'm still waiting on it being shipped here from overseas, but it's ordered, on the way and that's the original plan. We'll see.

I know you aren't in those circumstances... but you could still build something like that- a detached overhead guard like PhilP posted the link to it's pdf plans. Of course, I think with your shop ceiling height, that would preclude handing it from the ceiling... so you also would be a candidate for an arm. If you look in my uploads, I posted some drawings/plans for an updated version with some expanded functionality... that might still be considered DIY.

Or find a good deal on a used Biesemeyer overhead guard on ebay or craigslist. Only problem with that (IMHO), is most those owners are still too proud of the prices of those.

What does Lee Styron of Shark Guard say about your Craftsman model? Lee says he answers every email.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

This is a reply to Mike's post without the quote. Yes Mike your recall on which saw that I have is correct. I have given some thought to an overhead arm but that is all, just thinking about how to do it. Shark apparently has no solution to the problem for my saw. One of th members of this forum checked on it for me, I don't recall who it was.

My DC is working pretty well for me after drilling the holes in the zero clearance insert as Dick Willis suggested, but am wondering if it would still work with a guard that did not have an above table hose to work with it. Consequently the whole idea just gets muddeled and so I have just put it off and gone to trying to be as careful as I can be which, I suspect, puts me in the larger group of woodworkers. There are so many ways in life to get hurt or killed that running the tools in the shop is just one more hazard in life. Not sure that such thinking is not just a good excuse or not. If I loose some fingers or get hurt in the furture I my change my thinking, but for the time being, all I can do is to be careful nd thankful for my good fortune of not getting hurt until I learned more about the potential of getting hurt, and the methods of preventing many of the hazards.

I would still like to hear from others that have dealt with the subject, especially those that use the Incra system. Also any comments on the demos that Mark has done without the guard. I am still waiting to hear from him, but I sure do see how Incra might have been open to a law suit in light of the "sue happy" world that we live in these days and it may well be that Incra will not, for the above reason, even speak to my question to Mark about. I would not be surprised if this were to happen, and I certainly do understand.


Jerry


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Craftsman 22104, 114, 124, Steel City 35601, 06, 10, 70, 75
Just put this one on my saw (221140) it eliminates the rear attachment of the oem guard.
Not familiar with the Incra setup and how it's mounting keeps the oem guard from
functioning but the shark is a nice setup and the pawls attach to all but the smallest splitter, the guard removes separately from the splitter w/pawls allowing for a little more narrow rips with the pawls in place and the pawls can be removed leaving just the splitter in place. 

Lee does answer emails, lead time for the products is a long time however.
Ordered mine early May and was finally shipped mid Nov.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

TomE said:


> Craftsman 22104, 114, 124, Steel City 35601, 06, 10, 70, 75
> Just put this one on my saw (221140) it eliminates the rear attachment of the oem guard.
> Not familiar with the Incra setup and how it's mounting keeps the oem guard from
> functioning but the shark is a nice setup and the pawls attach to all but the smallest splitter, the guard removes separately from the splitter w/pawls allowing for a little more narrow rips with the pawls in place and the pawls can be removed leaving just the splitter in place.
> ...



The Incra LS/TS uses precision extruded rails on the front and rear of the table for the fence to lock to and be strong (not flex), so when mounted on a saw like those Craftsman saws, where the splitter comes over the rear of the table, which also holds the kick-back pawls and blade guard... They would no longer be able to mount there. Because that rear rail is in the way. You are describing for your's would be a different/newer Craftsman saw, which has a bigger insert throat?

That is why Jerry said that Mark said, that to be able to use that type of Blade Guard again, the Incra rear rail would have to stop before the back of the blade, so that splitter would have room to be there. 

The Incra LS Fence system is one-sided, so for some people, that would be okay to end at the blade... but Jerry said he has a router table extension, so needs his rails to keep going.

Now if "his" model could do it like yours... But his is not a Craftsman Contractor styled saw. As I remember, it was a better model and I think I remember there not being enough room in the insert throat for anything coming up through it besides the blade. But I could have remembered wrong. It's been a while since we talked about that. I think that stuck in my mind, because that is how it is with my old Rockwell-- not enough room to squeeze anything more into that opening.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Again, in answer to Mike's most recent post, not wanting to use the quote feature, he is correct on what he says about my saw. I am a little surprised Mike that your recall on my Craftsman Hybrid TS is so good. The rear rail could be split but sliding the base for the fence, carriage etc, would be a hassle getting past the split in the rail and of course having to remove the guard each time. It's already kind of nuisance to move the system down rail to the router as it is. I have been giving some serious thought to setting up my router in a separate table just for that reason, but so far it's only been a thought. By the way, I don't see my saw being sold by Sears any longer. They do sell one similar to mine for a few hundered dollars more than what I paid for mine, but I would prefer to buy even spend a little more and buy a cabinet saw from Grizzly if I were to upgrade the saw that I have now. As I have said before, it would be hard for me to justify upgrading my saw in light of how well it performs for me. 

Still haven't heard anything from another Incra owner or a comment about Mark's demo.

Jerry


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Not sure which one Jerry has but this is the Craftsman 221140 of which I speak, it is a hybrid with cabinet mounted trunions and inboard motor, the oem splitter attaches to a rod projecting out of the rear and slides into a spring slot within the throat just behind the blade, which is where the shark mounts and eliminates the need for the rod attachment point.








The rear rail for my Vega Pro fence still allows me to still mount the oem splitter so I presume that the rear rail for the Incra is too wide for same. Not sure why the shark setup would interfere with the Incra unless Jerry's saw is unlike mine.

Sliding the Incra on my saw/shark setup over to the router would entail lowering the blade, removing the insert and pulling a spring pin to release the splitter.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I'm almost 73. I don't use a splitter, or a guard. When I was in 10th grade shop (first year they let us use the real power tools), in 1955, the shop teacher showed us what kickback was (scared the bejeesus out of me, don't know about the rest of the class), and what caused it. AND how to avoid it. I don't recall his words as such, but have never had a kickback. I find that people usually get hurt by kickback because they are standing behind the blade; NOT a good thing to do. 

And, no, not using a splitter or guard is not a good idea for a whole lot of people, possibly most. I put my record of no kickback to not relaxing when using a table saw, in fact I'm still a bit scared of it - which is a good thing, and probably why I am so careful around one. A saw sled is one of the best things going as far as I'm concerned. I don't have one just now (changed what I do, and how I do it), but the last one I made had a nice clamp to hold the cut piece nice and firm. A minor PITA to tighten and loosen each time, well worth it in peace of mind. 

I have found too, that a load of injuries can be directly attributed to not using common sense - such as standing behind the saw blade, not using push sticks and blocks, etc.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

TomE said:


> Not sure which one Jerry has but this is the Craftsman 221140 of which I speak, it is a hybrid with cabinet mounted trunions and inboard motor, the oem splitter attaches to a rod projecting out of the rear and slides into a spring slot within the throat just behind the blade, which is where the shark mounts and eliminates the need for the rod attachment point.
> View attachment 67261
> 
> 
> ...


Tom,
That is indeed the same saw as mine. Do you understand how the rail for the Incra LS/TS fits on the saw and if so are you saying that it would not interfere with the set up that you are talking about. I think that the issue with Shark may have been in reference to a riving knife. In that, as I didn't talk to Shark personally but that a member of the forum was good enough to try to help me, I do know that this is the saw that Mark uses, or did use in his demos. When I talked to him about it I was led to believe that he did not use the guard and splitter for same reason that I believed that I could not use it. That was when he talked about splitting the rail.

I have to assume that you are as happy with your saw as I am with mine.

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Theo, you are a young man compared to me. I didn't have any previous experience with table saws until four years ago so I had to learn about kick backs and the members of this forum have been a great help. I'm catching up with you mentality about the subject and, like you, exercise the greatest caution as well as the MJ splitter and magnetic feather board, and as you say, always stay to the side out of the way in case I do get a kick back. Yes I had a few of them early on before understanding what you shop teacher told you back in the shop class. I'm about to the point of just doing what you have been doing and giving up the idea of worrying about a guard. I do appreciate your input young man. I'll be 76 in Fegruary by the way.

Jerry


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Jerry, I looked at the Incra setup displayed on their site, I can see where the large rear rail would not allow the OEM splitter to fit on the saw.

The Shark is not a riving setup, just another splitter solution for this particular saw, it would still need to be removed to slide your Incra over the throat, whereas a true riving knife would lower along with the blade. 


OEM Splitter, attaches behind the table, Incra rail won't allow clearance for OEM







Shark splitter, does not need the rear attachment, Incra or any other rail, no matter.







Shark hardware bolts up replacing OEM spring slot, a spring pin secures the Shark splitters.







Short splitter







Regular splitter with pawls for most work.







Tall splitter with pawls allows for max blade hgt. (forgot to drop the pawls in this shot)







Yes, the OEM insert works too








The Shark guard mounts onto the pawl assembly.

The basic saw I'm very happy with. I've also bolted on a few after market items to expand the potential but every once in a while a little more power would be nice.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

I am sure Lee has a Shark Guard to fit Jerry's saw, and was going to suggest it. The only thing that has kept me from ordering one is the lead time. I contacted him in February and he said he would notify me when it was ready to ship. I finally got a notice in August that it was ready to ship. I had long since forgotten about it and canceled the order. I think he is planning to reorganize the manufacturing of these guards. I believe they are currently being made one at a time in a small shop. As far as I am concerned the beat anything else out there, for this kind of saw. They do have overhead dust collection on the new models. The total cost for my saw would have been $140 which is very inexpensive compared to other options.

Leeway Workshop, LLC


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Willway said:


> The total cost for my saw would have been $140 which is very inexpensive compared to other options.
> 
> Leeway Workshop, LLC


Tom & Jerry-
(Did I just say that?) If you 2 have the same saw, then I see that Shark Guard as workable for Jerry.

That price is not bad at all! Very affordable and well worth it, considering what it is and the work Lee is doing to make it... The price is reasonable. Beats that $650-$800 for a Biesemeyer, eh? A whole lot less than the one I ordered for my panel saw...

Dick--
Lead time... ____???___ to August. How long is the lead time now? 

When you really look at it... I'm not saying I am getting used to lead times, but I empathize with those that are waiting. With my saw, I have a 1-2 month lead time for handling, then a 3 month shipping (via containers). Man, that lead time (more than) tries my patience. I've been waiting for an "inner bar" and other parts to ship from Europe since July!!!! (long story) But if you really need something... 

I ordered my overhead blade guard kit for my panel saw back in August/September... Coming from a plant in China. Other parts coming from Europe were ordered July/August... I thought they'd be here last month. A container takes 23 days on the water from China? A container takes 3 months on the water from Bulgaria? But they don't ship a container until it is full. Now I don't know if the container's will be here before the new year... (It is part a very long saga with that!!!)


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## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

MAFoElffen said:


> I ordered my overhead blade guard kit for my panel saw back in August/September... Coming from a plant in China. Other parts coming from Europe were ordered July/August... I thought they'd be here last month. A container takes 23 days on the water from China? A container takes 3 months on the water from Bulgaria? But they don't ship a container until it is full. Now I don't know if the container's will be here before the new year... (It is part a very long saga with that!!!)[/QUOTE
> 
> Mike I had a little chuckle reading this. When I was on a job in Taiwan it was the same thing but the other way around. We had a large shipment including a huge generator that was in its own container. All shipped from the US.
> 
> ...


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Jerry, you might benefit by doing a search for "Small Parts Holder". Personally, it is very rare in my shop for a crosscut to be made on the tablesaw - for me that is a job better done with the sliding compound miter saw. I am in a situation similar to Charles, in that some of my cuts cannot be done with a splitter or a bladeguard in use - but I've experienced kickback firsthand (and still have the scars). Another thing to avoid is two people holding the same workpiece. My brother, at age 11; was making a rip cut on a thin piece of wood and his friend was on the "pulling end". The friend wasn't paying close attention (he was also 11), David lost his middle finger and split his thumb right down the middle. That finger was reattached 3 or 4 times before it worked properly. Once I was in my shop making a rip-cut on some thin aluminum and everything was going great until an unknown visitor grabbed the outgoing edge and pulled hard on it. I didn't even know the jackass, but it happened so fast - it split my right hand middle finger. Fortunately, that finger has healed perfectly - it is just about 1/4" wider than its counterpart on my left hand. If I only knew who that idiot was - but he took-off running as soon as he saw my blood.

Our family knew a guy who always made it a point that he wouldn't do anything dangerous, if it were not absolutely necessary (such as driving). One day while watching TV, a tree fell on his house during a storm - he was killed instantly - still had his TV remote beside him. Guess what he was sitting on? A *LAZY BOY* RECLINING CHAIR!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Tom & Jerry-
> (Did I just say that?) ....


 

My order for the Shark guard/splitter/pawls ran a little over $200 with an estimated lead time in the 8 week range (if I recall correctly)

I believe it is now in the 4 month range, it should be posted on the site.

I pretty much checked in via monthly email and he responded by the following morning with an update on pending shipment. Apparently, he was let down by a couple of suppliers and increased production by double and still can't keep up.
On every occasion he was up front and offered refund should I decide to cancel.

This add-on to my saw was not critical for my production so I just waited. If one is in a hurry, you might get lucky and some stock might be had but it's doubtful.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I did get a reply from Mark Mueller, he says that he quit doing demos in 07 due to just being to busy to keep doing them. The types of cuts that he did were simple and straight forward that he did not feel that there was much danger in making them, this was, in my opinion due to his experience, anyway, that's what he said about the matter for what it's worth.

I probably won't try to buy the Shark add on for my saw in light of the time element, I'm old enough that I don't even buy green bananas anymore, only kidding, I am of the opinion that what I'm doing for safety is adequate, it's like the post about the guy that would not do anything dangereous, but got killed by a falling tree while in was in his easy chair, you can only do so much about being careful. I really appreciate Tom's info and attempt to get the word out on the Shark splitter, guard, and pawl tool. Thanks Tom.

Jerry


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Mike if you go to Lee's site you can see the lead time on the left hand side. I believe it is still about 4 months. I think the reason for such a long lead time is the many different saws that he makes these guards for. They are OSHA compliant and built entirely in the US.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Another vote for Lee Styron, I have his knife and guard on my Craftsman 28129. In fact, it's one of the main reasons I still have the saw, or I would have moved on by now.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

There are other options to make our endeavors a little safer.

When I can't use the pawls and guard I set up this way.








This rig (and those like it) hold the stock down and prevent kickback quite admirably.

We had a bit of discussion about kickback last year in this thread- http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/33759-tablesaw-router-table-kickback-camera.html (Looks like the link to the Tom Hintz video still works.)

Here's some more options... and another option that some have used on both router tables and table saws.

One minor caveat with these hold down anti-kickback devices is that the fence needs to be able to handle the downward pressure on the stock being cut...don't want the fence to raise up too much but most fences I've seen it's no problem.

Note- edited this post some to make more sense, I hope


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

TomE said:


> There are other options to make our endeavors a little safer.
> 
> When I can't use the pawls and guard I set up this way.
> View attachment 67311
> ...





Yes Tom, this thread has had a lot of discussion about kick back using the TS. If even one accident is prevented from the back and forth, it will certainly be worth the time spent on it. I know that when I first got my TS that had no idea what kick back was and the mechanics of what caused it and how to minimize the probability of of having it happen. This forum along with personal experience has been a great teacher. 

One thing that I mentioned briefly and I think deserves some more discussion on is the danger of trying to rip short narrow workpiecs. I is very difficult to control them, and so easy to set things up for a kick back. I had two of them, I mentioned them in an earlier post. The parts were about six inches long and two inches wide. I was trying to cut off just about a half of an inch from their width. Fortunately I was standing well to the left of the line of fire behind the blade and when they were "fired" they flew at a very high rate of speed for a distance of about 30 feet to the far wall of the shop and hit the wall so hard that I am certain that the impact would have done damage to anybody standing in the way. Remember, when the flight began it was at full speed, the heavy impact against the wall was not due to the workpiece picking up speed as it traveled, it started with more than the speed that it had when it hit the wall, I say all of this to put emphasis on the fact that while the workpieces were small, they were still extremely dangereous. This fact should not be over-looked. I wil never attempt to make such cut again, I will use the BS in the future. 

Taking shortcuts, being in a hurry, not paying attention are the culprits that must be avoided and all of them, in my opinion, are remedied only with both understanding and the development of good habits. 

I know that I for one am going to do my best to take this advise and to be careful, it is not just my fingers and/or other parts of my body that are at risk. I have somebody that depends on me, she deserves for me to be careful and I suspect that this is applicable to most of us, so, let's all pay attention and have fun, woodworking is certainly here to stay and I for one am so glad that it is.

Jerry


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OPG3 said:


> Another thing to avoid is two people holding the same workpiece. My brother, at age 11; was making a rip cut on a thin piece of wood and his friend was on the "pulling end".


When I was probably around 8 or so and on, I used to be the 'holder' for my grandfather when he was ripping boards on his table saw. Only thing I actually held was the end of the board 'up'. I was under strict orders not to actually hold on to anything. My job was actually to keep the end of the board as level as I could with the portion still on the table saw, and slowly move backward as the board advanced toward me. A living saw stand was what I was in reality. And it always worked very well, no problems at all. So, if you use a person as your 'holder' make durn sure they don't hold 'onto' anything, just hold 'up'.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Yes Tom, this thread has had a lot of discussion about kick back using the TS. If even one accident is prevented from the back and forth, it will certainly be worth the time spent on it. I know that when I first got my TS that had no idea what kick back was and the mechanics of what caused it and how to minimize the probability of of having it happen. This forum along with personal experience has been a great teacher.
> 
> One thing that I mentioned briefly and I think deserves some more discussion on is the danger of trying to rip short narrow workpiecs. I is very difficult to control them, and so easy to set things up for a kick back. I had two of them, I mentioned them in an earlier post. The parts were about six inches long and two inches wide. I was trying to cut off just about a half of an inch from their width. Fortunately I was standing well to the left of the line of fire behind the blade and when they were "fired" they flew at a very high rate of speed for a distance of about 30 feet to the far wall of the shop and hit the wall so hard that I am certain that the impact would have done damage to anybody standing in the way. Remember, when the flight began it was at full speed, the heavy impact against the wall was not due to the workpiece picking up speed as it traveled, it started with more than the speed that it had when it hit the wall, I say all of this to put emphasis on the fact that while the workpieces were small, they were still extremely dangereous. This fact should not be over-looked. I wil never attempt to make such cut again, I will use the BS in the future.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, maybe 2 years ago someone posted a picture of a piece of wood about 3 times the size you described that got away from him on his TS. It embedded itself in a gyproc wall. Had it hit him in the forehead it would have knocked him unconscious. If it hit him in the eye he probably would have lost vision in it. If it had hit him in the Adams's apple or over his heart a blow like that could kill you. It's good to see you're a believer but I doubt that most people realize the risk involved with kickbacks. Most of them end harmlessly but there is always the potential for something catastrophic.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Yes Tom, this thread has had a lot of discussion about kick back using the TS......
> I know that I for one am going to do my best to take this advise and to be careful, it is not just my fingers and/or other parts of my body that are at risk.
> Jerry


Glad to hear it, 

Not sure if you caught the part about "this thread", I was actually referring to an old thread put up about a year ago, a fellow made a video wherein he actually forces kickback as a demonstration. 

The results were very enlightening.


Click the link below to view the demonstration by Tom Hintz.
Table Saw Kickbacks! - NewWoodworker.com LLC


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry:

You know how you talk about something, then later you find something that turns out to be exactly the solution to what you've talked about and at a good price? I found this too late to help me, but maybe it might be of use to others.

I found this listed as an overhead blade guard kit:
Table Saw Dust Collection Guard at Penn State Industries

And a review after long-term use that you might find interesting:
Table Saw Guards: Pass and Fail


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## Shells (Feb 20, 2014)

In regards to power tools used without guards in place on videos - the credits of the shows generally state that guards and other safety features may not be in place in order to provide more clarity for the camera shot. 

I wouldn't even dream of not using guards on everything but then I'm a nurse and work in ICU - I see what happens when your attention wanders or the machines decide to act up.

Heck, if you watch some of the old Bob Vila shows, his carpenter Riley is missing parts on several fingers. And he supposedly knows what he is doing. I sure don't have that level of expertise.


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