# Building drawers for underneith work bench



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I'm trying to organize my garage so I can actually find something , and I was going to build some drawers underneith my work bench and didn't want to get to fancy or time consuming . I bought the sliders years ago so I have them , guess I need to pick a material and then find out if there's any trade secrets to installing sliders . 

Watched a YouTube video and he had the complete slider attached to the cabinet walls . Then he placed a temporary spacer on the floor and put the drawer on the spacers , then pulled out the movable part of the slider out that attaches to the drawer , and put the first screw in the side of the drawer . Then pulled it out further and got the next screw in . Then completely removed the rails of the slider that stay on the drawer part and finished screwing .
He repeated this and put another spacer on the bottom drawer and repeated .

It seemed like a good trick but maybe there's a better way to install drawer guides . I believe there 1/2" wide so if the drawer is 16" wide you would build the surrounding side walls 17" deep . 
I seen a jig for this made by Kreg at Windsor a plywood but have no idea if it's necessary. 
I figured just get the first ones lined up then put a piece of wood as a jig to stack the next sliders , well according to how deep the drawers actually are . Was going to make the top ones not very tall as I want to store slim things in them for calibration etc. 

Any ideas before I proceed would great .

I thinking 3/4" plywood good one side for the drawers and sides of the cabinet , and maybe 1/4" MDF bottoms ?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

MDF has almost no structural strength in tension; compression is good.
That translates to a poor choice for horizontal panels with vertical loading, especially in thinner forms like 1/4".
What'll likely happen, if you put any significant weight in the drawers, is that they'll sag over time, especially if the perimeter isn't glued into the drawer sides.
Unlike lumber, and plywood to some extent, MDF won't spring back.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Just a word of caution...you can always add a shim to a drawer that is too narrow, but you are SOL if it is too tight. That is why I like face frames.

I attach the cabinet side of the glide to the inside of the face frame opening. Then I attach the rear mount to the back. I found it is much easier to adjust those rear brackets than try to adjust the slide against the side wall.

Here's an example. My sweetie is attaching the drawer slide to the back, which I had reinforced with 3/4 inch plywood.

Part II

As far as mounting the drawer slide on the drawer, I don't sweat it at all. I mount the slide flush with the drawer bottom. Easy peasy. The way the full extension drawer slides I use ar built, that will automatically raise the drawer to clear the face frame rail. 

Lemme see if I can find a close up.

BTW, those are the 28 inch drawers we put in the corner base cabinets. They work great.

Hope this helps.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks , I seen those pics before Mike and had no idea what you referenced to in the rear of the cabinet before screwing them down ? I Assumed you had cut a piece of wood to act as a template/ guide to figure out the distances .

I actually never noticed that you could attach sliders from the back like that . Gotta check mine I guess if I can find them in the mess and see if there the same


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> MDF has almost no structural strength in tension; compression is good.
> That translates to a poor choice for horizontal panels with vertical loading, especially in thinner forms like 1/4".
> What'll likely happen, if you put any significant weight in the drawers, is that they'll sag over time, especially if the perimeter isn't glued into the drawer sides.
> Unlike lumber, and plywood to some extent, MDF won't spring back.


Totally agree with Dan on the drawer bottoms.

As far as the opening for the drawers go, look at the slide specs. They will give you the spacing of the drawer in the opening. It will probably require at least 1/2" + 1/16" for clearances but will depend on the maker.

For a typical drawer in a shop cabinet I usually go 19-20" if I can and use a 18" full extension slide. If you want to easily get to the back of the drawer when it is pulled out, use full extension slides and use the longest that will fit the drawer.

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks , I seen those pics before Mike and had no idea what you referenced to in the rear of the cabinet before screwing them down ? I Assumed you had cut a piece of wood to act as a template/ guide to figure out the distances .
> 
> I actually never noticed that you could attach sliders from the back like that . Gotta check mine I guess if I can find them in the mess and see if there the same


You have to have a bracket for the back of the slide. They are fairly cheap, usually only a couple of bucks for a pair. If you are not attaching the slides to a panel/divider, etc. then you will have to attach to the back of the cabinet like in the photos and will require the brackets.

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> You have to have a bracket for the back of the slide. They are fairly cheap, usually only a couple of bucks for a pair. If you are not attaching the slides to a panel/divider, etc. then you will have to attach to the back of the cabinet like in the photos and will require the brackets.
> 
> Bill


Wow there's so many things I wasn't aware of , Thanks 

I kind of like the way Mike did his because it saves me having sides to attach the sliders to . Gotta rethink this .

I should post a pic of what I'm up against


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*I Can't Move!!*

And you'll need the lovely and highly skilled Mrs. Stringer to install them.
Rick, neither you nor I, are squeaking into a 28" cabinet! :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> And you'll need the lovely and highly skilled Mrs. Stringer to install them.
> Rick, neither you nor I, are squeaking into a 28" cabinet! :grin:


Good point , that never occurred to me :lol:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> And you'll need the lovely and highly skilled Mrs. Stringer to install them.
> Rick, neither you nor I, are squeaking into a 28" cabinet! :grin:


Ah! Better add me to that list....

Bill


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

If your drawers weren't too wide, 1/4 inch plywood will be good enough. For wide ones, I would go with 1/2 inch thick plywood.

The drawers in my work bench are 3/4 inch white pine w/ 1/4 inch bottoms. Just simple rabbet joints and glue.
The big drawer is loaded with stuff. I used 3/4 plywood I had on hand and 1/2 inch ply for the bottom. It is mounted with full extension ball brg drawer slides. For that drawer, I measured the width of the opening, then built the drawer to fit minus 1 1/16th inch for the slides.

Hmmm...that reminds me of something. I still haven't made a drawer front for that drawer! :surprise:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I wasn't BS'n about the mess lol but here is the bench I want to mount drawers under . Was going to go right across and maybe 3 deep . There's no back or sides so I have to figure out what the best way to attach this is . Plus will need dividers between the drawers to support the sliders unless I put a wood backing on and attach the sliders as Mike and his wife did


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok I wasn't BS'n about the mess lol but here is the bench I want to mount drawers under . Was going to go right across and maybe 3 deep . There's no back or sides so I have to figure out what the best way to attach this is . Plus will need dividers between the drawers to support the sliders unless I put a wood backing on and attach the sliders as Mike and his wife did


Just add some stiles to the front and back. You'll have to add a rail (front) to the legs, add two stiles (front and back) between the legs and attach the slides to the legs and the stiles.

No need for dividers or panels.

I see 6-9 drawers in your future!

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bill are stiles the front things that Mike has in his first pictures . I sort of assumed I see to put a board across the bottom for support . Im glad I posted this as it clueless how to proceed . As you can see underneith I have a drawer from a previous attempt on the other work bench that I removed . Nothing to fancy joint wise but it worked

Ok stiles would just be vertical posts in the front and rear to secure to ?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Looks like something blew up in there!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill are stiles the front things that Mike has in his first pictures . I sort of assumed I see to put a board across the bottom for support . Im glad I posted this as it clueless how to proceed . As you can see underneith I have a drawer from a previous attempt on the other work bench that I removed . Nothing to fancy joint wise but it worked
> 
> Ok stiles would just be vertical posts in the front and rear to secure to ?


Rails run horizontal and stiles run vertical. A couple of 2x4 would serve as the stiles. just attach the edges to the bench top and the bottom rail so you have a flat face to attach the slides to.

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Rails run horizontal and stiles run vertical. A couple of 2x4 would serve as the stiles. just attach the edges to the bench top and the bottom rail so you have a flat face to attach the slides to.
> 
> Bill


Thanks Bill . As you can tell I'm almost a total newbie at certain things :|


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Looks like something blew up in there!


Ya, and if I catch the *******s that did it :lol:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Looks like something blew up in there!


@ MT Stringer

Mike, 

Your the sketch up wiz. Can you help Rich out with a quick diagram?

Bill


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

What is your goal? Drawers where?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Bill . As you can tell I'm almost a total newbie at certain things :|


No worries! As soon as Stick gets back from the big city, he'll set you straight.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> @ MT Stringer
> 
> Mike,
> 
> ...


Bill it's all good . I just needed your guys input ,and you guys have helped a ton already .
As I mentioned I had no idea how to proceed , and was sure after I built it that you guys would have a better way .
Liking the Stile idea


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

schnewj said:


> @ MT Stringer
> 
> Mike,
> 
> ...


Yeah. and I will see if I can help him spend his money too! :surprise:>


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> No worries! As soon as Stick gets back from the big city, he'll set you straight.


What , Stick left his mountain top perch? Wonders never cease lol


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill it's all good . I just needed your guys input ,and you guys have helped a ton already .
> As I mentioned I had no idea how to proceed , and was sure after I built it that you guys would have a better way .
> Liking the Stile idea


Mike is willing to help with a diagram. What IS your goal? Just a couple of drawers, three across. Two sets of three. Tell Mike and he can give you a decent sketch to follow. He IS offering!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Yeah. and I will see if I can help him spend his money too! :surprise:>


Naw! He probably has enough scrap left over from the RT build.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Well, I am not sleepy, and I haven't been drinking, so let's get it on.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Well, I'm exhausted, now! Time for a Stick break. I hear my pillow calling me to a nap.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

OOPS! I forgot some folks have to work tomorrow!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

If you're looking for Rick, he's in the freezer...

_*Cranbrook Forecast for the weekend_

(Remember, Rick complains when it's 70F+ )


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is *Option #1*.

Face frame to cover entire front of bench.
Three drawers of equal size and length.
Add a filler strip to existing bench top to form an overhang and cover the top with a new 3/4 inch piece (or 1/2 inch or whatever).
Run 1 1/2 x 3/4 inch trim around the bench top to make it look purty! Round off the corners.
Add a piece of 3/4 inch plywood to the inside of the rear legs (screw it to the legs, top and bottom 2x4 cross members.

If it were me, I would make the face frame using pocket hole joinery. Nice and strong.

Rick, gimme some measurements first chance you get.
Leg height
Overall width of the bench from outside to outside of the legs.
Overall depth

My example is for a bench 60 inches wide x 34 inches high x 24 inches deep.

The drawers would be one third the width of the bench, or about 20 inches wide.
The drawer openings would be 8 inches high x 17 1/2 inches each, making the drawers 7 inches on the side and about 18 inches deep.

I am open to suggestions. Modifications are easy to make.
Good night all.
Mike


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Rick, Blum or Richlieu common drawer slides take up one inch of width. As Mike pointed out,too wide is a disaster. Too narrow can be shimmed. Aim for just a little too small, the slides can accommodate that. Using a jig stick to set height for each drawer is a good idea.
Remember that the slides also have to be set for the distance to the front of the carcase which is approximately 1/32" if I remember right. If the slides are too far forward the drawers won't close flush to the carcase.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Here is *Option #1*.
> 
> Face frame to cover entire front of bench.
> Three drawers of equal size and length.
> ...


Thank you Mike but I didn't want to put you to the trouble . Basically trying to figure out how to proceed is all , that's why I never took any measurements . 

I see you have a sheet of plywood on the back in your sketchup design . I was going to just go with vertical boards (stiles ?) front and back . Will add a lower brace in front at bottom. 
I'm planning on putting drawers all the way across and maybe 3 deep . Guess I'll keep building them till I get tired of adding lol .

Thanks for all your input guys


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> If you're looking for Rick, he's in the freezer...
> 
> _*Cranbrook Forecast for the weekend_
> 
> (Remember, Rick complains when it's 70F+ )


Yes it's going to be a tad uncomfortable in the garage after 12:00 pm


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Adding that, face frames really make things more elegant!
Sid


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is *Option #2*

If you need more detail, I can make a few adjustments. For the horizontal drawers, I added a piece of 3/4 plywood across the rear for the drawer mounts to attach to.

Now you need to make 5 identical drawers. Trying to make things simple for ya.

I guess the question is "How many sets of drawer slides do you have?"

I just checked. It is 72 in the shop. :surprise: The AC is working! :grin:


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

One other thought. I noticed you have a bench grinder and a vise. You could always mount those tools on pieces of 3/4 plywood scrap, then clamp them to the table when you need to use them. Remove and store when not needed.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> One other thought. I noticed you have a bench grinder and a vise. You could always mount those tools on pieces of 3/4 plywood scrap, then clamp them to the table when you need to use them. Remove and store when not needed.


Actually I was going to get off my butt and mount them both . Put the vise on the far front left and put the grinder on the right . A quick removal system would be kinda cool , but I don't think it's really necessary.

Mike so in the front I'm going to build vertical and horizontal pieces that connect via my Kreg pocket hole jig . Now what material would I use for that ? As you know hardwood or anything other than 2/4s are a fortune here 

I'm almost thinking of installing 2/4s front and rear and maybe build some filler pieces for the front , but that would probably be a bit tacky looking I guess . 
I'm amazed having the slider only attached to the front side and rear provides enough strength to hold things up


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Actually I was going to get off my butt and mount them both . Put the vise on the far front left and put the grinder on the right . A quick removal system would be kinda cool , but I don't think it's really necessary.
> 
> Mike so in the front I'm going to build vertical and horizontal pieces that connect via my Kreg pocket hole jig . Now what material would I use for that ? As you know hardwood or anything other than 2/4s are a fortune here
> 
> ...


What's wrong with 2x4's? Rick it's shop furniture not museum quality. Hardwood trim accents are nice but totally unnecessary. Use Poplar for the face frames. The wood doesn't have to be expensive.

I build shop cabinets and drawers out of plywood. I try to minimize edge exposures but I rarely apply edge banding to those that are. I've never had anyone criticize the exposed plywood edges on the carts and cabinets. The pieces are solid and functional.

Bill


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Actually I was going to get off my butt and mount them both . Put the vise on the far front left and put the grinder on the right . A quick removal system would be kinda cool , but I don't think it's really necessary.
> 
> *Don't do it, Rick!*
> 
> ...


The good thing about shop cabinets is you can do as you wish. It's all good. Do whatever you need to create a smooth front so the drawer fronts will have something to close against. I make all drawer fronts with 1/2 inch overlay all around.

Pocket screws will make it easy to add the mid stile(s) and rails. Use a spacer on each side of the rail so they will be spaced evenly. I mentioned all drawers are identical. That helps to reduce any math needed.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Mike, what did you mean by 'Don't do it, Rick'? Don't mount on the table, or don't mount on a board? I was thinking about making my vice and grinder 'portable' by mounting them to a board that can be clamped down where convenient. If you have some logic as to why mounting to a board is 'bad' I'd like to hear it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jeff; I'll let Mike explain what _he_ meant, but _my_ perspective is that permanently mounting onto a workbench you preclude ever again using that space for large objects (cab. carcasses) or big panels.
Another objection might be that that type of vice is often used for metal working/maintenance and the surrounding area is very likely to become seriously contaminated with metal filings/oil/silicone...not a prime area for doing woodworking then.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

I completely agree Dan, thanks. These are the reasons that I was going to mount the vice and grinder to boards. I'm looking for any arguments against this approach.

Jeff


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Ratbob said:


> Mike, what did you mean by 'Don't do it, Rick'? Don't mount on the table, or don't mount on a board? I was thinking about making my vice and grinder 'portable' by mounting them to a board that can be clamped down where convenient. If you have some logic as to why mounting to a board is 'bad' I'd like to hear it.


Mount them on a board so they can be used wherever and put away when not needed. Mount it on a bench, and it will be in your way within 15 minutes! :grin:


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

One more thing to be aware of, Rick. Make sure you have a way of making sure your drawer slides are square and parallel.

I made divider/frames out of 2 x 4s when I built my workbench about 40 years ago. (You can see the basic bones in the Sketchup drawing.) I had no problems with the structure because I had a shelf inside with cabinet doors on the front.

A few years ago I decided it was more effective to have drawers rather than cabinets (as you have wisely concluded) and started installing drawers. The first five on the right end were no problem, but as I got to the third section (2nd opening from the left) I was having a lot of problems with the drawers binding. At first I thought I had mis-made the drawers and finally (after running out of my extensive repertoire of colorful language) I realized that my divider/frames were ~1/4" out of square over their 24" depth.

I was able to salvage things by adding a 1/4" shim to the back stile on one side of the opening and to the front stile of the opposing one.

A pain to say the least. So the moral is to find a sure way to keep the front and back end of your slides square as well as level and your drawers will work well.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here are some drawer construction details for a simple, yet sturdy drawer. Build it this way and add the false front which typically should be 1/2 inch larger all around.

Even though the rabbet joint is simple, glue and brad nails will yield a strong joint that will last for years to come.

I build the front this way so it is easy to cut the drawer pieces that will fit. I cut a piece of scrap that fits in between the drawer hardware. Cut the pieces the same and the drawer should fit when built.

Also, cut the rear height short so you can assemble the drawer, then slip the bottom in from behind. Secure it with a couple of screws or staples, and you are done. Easy to do.

Note: 28 years go, I built three of these drawers using simple butt joints, glue and finish nails. When I tore them apart two years ago, I had to beat them apart with a shop hammer. All those years, those drawers were loaded with all sorts of stuff from boxes of nails to clamps. All with 1/4 inch Masonite bottoms.

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Mount them on a board so they can be used wherever and put away when not needed. Mount it on a bench, and it will be in your way within 15 minutes! :grin:


Dang that's yet another place I screwed up Mike as I never included any overhang . I'm almost wondering if I should install a piece of that track from Kreg ? Well I don't think that would work either .

Ok some kind of threaded inserts that are mounted underneith . Then I could put threaded knobs threw the vise to secure it !


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Here are some drawer construction details for a simple, yet sturdy drawer. Build it this way and add the false front which typically should be 1/2 inch larger all around.
> 
> Even though the rabbet joint is simple, glue and brad nails will yield a strong joint that will last for years to come.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike that helps a lot ! I was wondering what to do for the joints and seeing as I have a dado on my TS this should work great. Get to put those clamps to work too


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Dang that's yet another place I screwed up Mike as I never included any overhang . I'm almost wondering if I should install a piece of that track from Kreg ? Well I don't think that would work either .
> 
> Ok some kind of threaded inserts that are mounted underneith . Then I could put threaded knobs threw the vise to secure it !



My drawing included details to add a filler block to the front of your bench, then a new piece on top secured by a few screws. And trim attached on three sides producing an overhang. Overhang is good for clamps!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Gaffboat said:


> One more thing to be aware of, Rick. Make sure you have a way of making sure your drawer slides are square and parallel.
> 
> I made divider/frames out of 2 x 4s when I built my workbench about 40 years ago. (You can see the basic bones in the Sketchup drawing.) I had no problems with the structure because I had a shelf inside with cabinet doors on the front.
> 
> ...


Thank you Oliver as I'm really liking your frame idea you made from 2/4s . Looking at them they would really work well for my application


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

My shop drawers using the joint described in the drawings. The top one uses the cheep metal hdw. UGH! I hate them because I can't get to the rear of the drawer.

The two lower drawers have the full extension ball brg slides, and they are loaded with clamps. all bottoms are 1/4 inch thick.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> My drawing included details to add a filler block to the front of your bench, then a new piece on top secured by a few screws. And trim attached on three sides producing an overhang. Overhang is good for clamps!


I'm kinda liking the filler block idea too . 

One thing I did right is I bought full drawer slides . Bought them many years ago and I think they were over $30 a pair


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well before I build drawers tommorow I was going to figure out the best way to mount the vise so it can be easily be removed from the bench top and stored when not in use .
I bought those threaded inserts you put underneath and seeing as the benches top is 1" thick mdf I was thinking about glueing a piece of 3/4" plywood underneath first so the threaded parts have something to sink into . I was going to mount the vise on a piece of 3/4" plywood and have knobs with threaded rod on them go threw the plywood base to secure it. I bought the wrong knobs as the ones I have are threaded threw . Hopefully HD has knobs that you attach different length of bolts to 



I was going to mount the grinder to the right hand side of the bench though and not make it detachable as its not really in the way


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Wait! Stop!!! INSULATE THE WALLS FIRST! It needs to be done before continuing.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> I was going to mount the grinder to the right hand side of the bench though and not make it detachable as its not really in the way



Everything at some point gets in the way, Especially on a work surface.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Shop guy said:


> Wait! Stop!!! INSULATE THE WALLS FIRST! It needs to be done before continuing.


if that's done there'd be no more whining about can't work 'cause it's too hot or too cold...
and the record would got stuck in a different section...
can't have that, now can we..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Guess not, but with a new planer coming and time to build drawers you would think a little time spent insulating would make it easier to enjoy both. I personally hate doing insulation but for a few bucks I can get some one to do it for me.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Shop guy said:


> Guess not, but with a new planer coming and time to build drawers you would think a little time spent insulating would make it easier to enjoy both. I personally hate doing insulation but for a few bucks I can get some one to do it for me.


one of the 1st reason for not doing the insulating was it cost too much and there wasn't the funds...
and then it was a slew of others...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*$$$$$$*



Stick486 said:


> one of the 1st reason for not doing the insulating was it cost too much and there wasn't the funds...
> and then it was a slew of others...


I'm going to (try to anyway) stop hassling Rick over his lack of motivation on the insulation/drywall thing. His shop, and if he wants to either cook or freeze in it, well that's his business.
_But I really don't want to hear any more complaints about how hot or cold it is in there..._:no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'm going to (try to anyway) stop hassling Rick over his lack of motivation on the insulation/drywall thing. His shop, and if he wants to either cook or freeze in it, well that's his business.
> _But I really don't want to hear any more complaints about how hot or cold it is in there..._:no:


me too on both counts...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> me too on both counts...


Me three...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I promice not to whine about the temperature in there if I don't get it insulated this year lol. I'm hoping to get done it insulated but I gotta say winter is really sneaking up on me already . 

I know one thing , if I do bats in the ceiling as opposed to shooting that loose stuff in with a machine that I'll get a better start on it . Once the ceilings done and the vapour barrier is on I can drywall it . The sides I could live with the bats in and no covering just to make it cozy so I can work at it in the winter months . 
I think I have a plan , just gotta spend a week working on cabinets for this work bench then it's insulation


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Mount the bench vise and the grinder on separate pieces of 3/4 inch plywood. Make the plywood a litle longer on each end and in the back.

Then sit them on the shelf. Pull 'em out and clamp to the table when you need to use the tool, then put it back.

Example below.
Mike


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Bet it would cost less to insulate and drywall than the planner or the camera cost. Priorities, priorities.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Zipped lips...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Zipped lips...


not to be confused w/ ***********...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; I see you have the PC joint jig. Any complaints or reservations?
I'm tempted to pull the trigger and buy it, but there's too many damn choices out there... 

https://www.kmstools.com/porter-cable-12-deluxe-dovetail-machine-3880
https://www.kmstools.com/rockler-dovetail-jig-kit-20105
Leigh Super Jigs - Lee Valley Tools

I have Stick's proxy vote for the Leigh...

My gut tells me that I'm only going to buy one in this lifetime, so make it the Leigh or Porter Cable... 

Keep in mind those are Cdn. prices...the LV one should be a bit less in the US. (Not that it'll help _me_.)


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't now about any of the other options. I bought it to build drawers for the cabinets. Some times the dovetails turn out nice. Other times they are off a little when I put the pieces together. No doubt it is user error. Gotta be careful and set it up right for everything to fit properly.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Mount the bench vise and the grinder on separate pieces of 3/4 inch plywood. Make the plywood a litle longer on each end and in the back.
> 
> Then sit them on the shelf. Pull 'em out and clamp to the table when you need to use the tool, then put it back.
> 
> ...


Ay caramba , I never even thought of clamping the vise etc to the work bench . I just bought some bolts and knobs so I'll give that a try I guess seeing as I spent most of the morning shopping for this stuff 

On a good note , I bought a couple more Irwin 6" clamps as CT has them on sale again


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok as I mentioned it was to late so I resorted to my first idea . Why ALL KNOBS have to be threw threads I don't get . Wish I could just buy a knob with a fixed threaded bolt inside ? 
I used carriage bolts and instead of double nutting them I think I'm going to put red lock tight on the threads and see if that works .

I was going to bolt the vise to the 3/4" wood base but instead thought I'd try those threaded inserts. Never used them before but so far I'm pretty impressed at there strength . 


I used a socket and tightened down the bolts in the vise holes 


The bolts were to long so instead of cutting them I decided to cut another 3/8" layer and drill out holes for clearance 


I glued the two layers together 


So here it is on the work bench . All it takes is to put it in place and thread the bolts in which turned out to be very easy . The reason I went this wide for the base is because I have another base to secure to the bench grinder and it's much wider and I needed to get the bolts in 


I was originally going to use 4 bolts to mount it to the bench , but with 2 it's rock solid 


The work bench top is 1" mdf and I have no idea how these inserts work with mdf so instead of taking a chance I just air nailed a piece of plywood underneith for the inserts to bite into to


----------



## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok as I mentioned it was to late so I resorted to my first idea . Why ALL KNOBS have to be threw threads I don't get . Wish I could just buy a knob with a fixed threaded bolt inside ?


Woodpeckers sells a Multi-Knob that accepts either a bolt or nut in the plastic knob. They are not cheap, but are very versatile - check out the video Rick.

Glad to see you went with the boards for mounting your vice and grinder. Maybe you should think about adding a T-Track or two to your workbench. That would really open up your clamping options, I'm glad that I added two to my el-cheapo HF bench.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jig and fixture hardware...
Capscrews, Knobs & Washers (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools
1/4-20 Thread Knobs - Lee Valley Tools
Wing & Bar Knobs (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Jig and fixture hardware...
> Capscrews, Knobs & Washers (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools
> 1/4-20 Thread Knobs - Lee Valley Tools
> Wing & Bar Knobs (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools


Jeff I thought about T track but to tell you the truth this bench doesn't really get used for much as I build everything in the middle of my garage on a work station / outfield table


----------



## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Jig and fixture hardware...
> Capscrews, Knobs & Washers (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools
> 1/4-20 Thread Knobs - Lee Valley Tools
> Wing & Bar Knobs (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools


Dan, I'd prefer something more like these that I just bought on Amazon - thanks for helping me spend more money Rick. It's handy to have a knob that can go either way. It lets you adapt bolt length to the task at hand, without having to wait for special order.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks for the links Dan and Jeff . Jeff I'm really liking the woodpecker multi knob . Hopefully I can source some in Canada . Guess I'll try Amazon first


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jeff; I know I've seen those somewhere...maybe Lee Valley? In fact I think I actually bought a couple (see Cricket's 'Organization' thread)
Th first link I supplied is for something similar, but with capscrews.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lee Valley indeed!
Snap-Lock Knobs (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools


There's a Free Shipping event on till the end of August...minimum $40 order.
They've got those fence clamp dohickeys on for $7.50 a pair.
Mounting Clamps for Fences & Jigs - Lee Valley Tools
Not as nice looking as the Rockler ones.

(I just need to find another $32.50 worth of stuff...)


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Lee Valley indeed!
> Snap-Lock Knobs (1/4-20 Thread) - Lee Valley Tools
> 
> 
> ...



Dan I swear I bought those knobs and have them stored God knows where 

I put 3/8" inserts under the vise but went with some weird size of insert under the table . It's the thread between 1/4 and 3/8 . Guess I could pry the plywood out easy enough and put in another piece for a different size of insert


----------



## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Cheap knobs


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I think I'm going to order some of those knobs from woodpecker . No suprize here but there not available threw Amazon.ca but they are at Amazon.com

Ok woodpecker are out . The ones on Amazon .com are not fulfilled by Amazon so they don't ship to Canada . Back to LV


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"It's the thread between 1/4 and 3/8 ."
5/16" that's not weird, it's a standard stock size. 
Check the bolt bins at a lumberyard or CT. They should have a complete range of lengths in 5/16"


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well here's some that fit bolts with a 5/16" thread . Guess I should order a half dozen of each . Dan I should get that lock down clamps while I'm at it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I added a few pieces and replaced others that were warped and I end up with an 18" tall area to work with . 
I want to have anything dedicated to measuring and calibration in the first left drawer , so I was going to keep the left drawers fairly shallow , say 4" deep . Or would you guys go with 6" deep drawers . 
I don't know if there is a standard for drawer height and width ? 




I am going to built square dividers from 2by4's like Oliver suggested and in the pic you can see where I'm doing a test where I dadoed out the ends so they could be overlapped . Thinking I'll just glue and Brad nail the overlapped areas together


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rick, the cabinets I am fixing to remodel all have the top opening 4 1/2 inches High. That means the drawer will probably wind up about 3 3/4 inch sides. Those are for the utensils, etc. Then you have room for a deep drawer or whatever you decide.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, the cabinets I am fixing to remodel all have the top opening 4 1/2 inches High. That means the drawer will probably wind up about 3 3/4 inch sides. Those are for the utensils, etc. Then you have room for a deep drawer or whatever you decide.


Thanks Mike . Maybe I should make all the top ones shallow like that and maybe build deeper ones under them . I'm thinking that if there too deep that you just end up wasting space as everything is piled up on each other and back to disorganized ? 

The far right hand side is only going to be for storing the vise and grinder . I ordered some heavy duty locking full extention drawer slides rated for 500 pounds , and was going to attach them to a shallow drawer that slides out to access them . They should be located on the left where they mount to the work bench top , but I want to access things that I'm going to use more frequently there


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I was debating to do a rabbet joint on the bottom perimeter of the drawers and glue the bottoms , that way I wouldn't loose any additional height .
Or are you guys set on doing a dado around the perimeter and locking the bottom in? I guess I'd only loose 1/4" by doing a dado for the bottom to lock into


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

The dado for the drawer bottom to fit in provides a lot of support.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> The dado for the drawer bottom to fit in provides a lot of support.


I'm thinking your right Mike , the dado may be the best choice . I'm only going to loose a 1/4" anyways so why not .
I'm going to use 3/4" BB for the sides and 3/8"s BB for the bottoms as I've already bought it a few weeks back .
5'/5' sheets are sure a hassle to lift by yourself though :|


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Just a thought, but you could do a simple pullout tray, like a keyboard tray with undermount slides, and a thin wall around the four sides for retaining the thin measuring gear. A mat on the bottom for protection and to stop the stuff from sliding around...check out the Dollar store; they have inexpensive PVC drawer liner that's really non-slip...did I mention the cheap part?
The undermount slides are very inexpensive if you don't need a huge weight capacity.
Hettich America Online Catalogue


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Just a thought, but you could do a simple pullout tray, like a keyboard tray with undermount slides, and a thin wall around the four sides for retaining the thin measuring gear. A mat on the bottom for protection and to stop the stuff from sliding around...check out the Dollar store; they have inexpensive PVC drawer liner that's really non-slip...did I mention the cheap part?
> The undermount slides are very inexpensive if you don't need a huge weight capacity.
> Hettich America Online Catalogue


Dan I already committed to buying heavy duty drawer slides . $167 after taxes for the pair of 30" :fie: 
Kinda harsh but I couldn't see anything else supporting a vise and grinder together . I'm going to build a shallow shelf with a 3/4" bottom to hold the vise and grinder and reinforce the bottom with some like lap jointed plywood underneith so it doesn't flex in the future 

http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=58870&cat=3,43614,43620


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> 5'/5' sheets are sure a hassle to lift by yourself though :|


Yes they are! Especially for short fat guys like me. :frown:


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

?!...
_"I want to have anything dedicated to measuring and calibration in the first left drawer , so I was going to keep the left drawers fairly shallow , say 4" deep "_
-Rick

"Dan I already committed to buying heavy duty drawer slides . $167 after taxes for the pair of 30" 

OK; colour me confused.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I ordered some heavy duty locking full extention drawer slides rated for 500 pounds"

Holy Hanna! What was wrong with the 150# or 250# ones?
500#?! That's a fully loaded 24cu ft freezer!
...or you me and Stick all standing in the drawer at the same time. Soaking wet.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> ?!...
> 
> OK; colour me confused.


one bright deep purple dip coming right up...
and that's spelt color...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Only in Mexico.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

been to Mexico I take it...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "I ordered some heavy duty locking full extention drawer slides rated for 500 pounds"
> 
> Holy Hanna! What was wrong with the 150# or 250# ones?
> 500#?! That's a fully loaded 24cu ft freezer!
> ...or you me and Stick all standing in the drawer at the same time. Soaking wet.


Sorry Dan I got you guys confused again as there's only one pair of 30" 500 lb full extension used , the ones that go on the far right to support the vise and grinder when there not in use . The will be a very shallow drawer/sliding shelve so it will easy to remove them .
Everything else is 26" 200 lb full extensions

For the drawers I'm almost wondering if I should have gone with those super cheap white rails with rollers , not sure how tough they are though? 
I purchased 3 sets of 26" full extentions so far and they were around 95 bucks for all 3 pairs I think it was and I need many more


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Dan I already committed to buying heavy duty drawer slides . $167 after taxes for the pair of 30" :fie:
> Kinda harsh but I couldn't see anything else supporting a vise and grinder together . I'm going to build a shallow shelf with a 3/4" bottom to hold the vise and grinder and reinforce the bottom with some like lap jointed plywood underneith so it doesn't flex in the future
> 
> Double-Locking Extra-Heavy-Duty Slides - Lee Valley Tools


Rick,

I love how you continually spend money needlessly! 

$167!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

That money would be better spent buying a weight scale so you can weigh your tools and materials and not overbuy your slides. I'm sorry, but in what world does your vice and grinder weigh more then #100? 

Cancel the order, send them back, go to Lowe's, Home Depot, Canadian Tire, wherever, and spend $30 on a set of full extension #100 slides. Better yet, take the $167 and buy several sets in various lengths and put them on a shelf for future use.

Sorry, Rick, it's time for some "tough love". STOP wasting your money.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Mike . Maybe I should make all the top ones shallow like that and maybe build deeper ones under them . I'm thinking that if there too deep that you just end up wasting space as everything is piled up on each other and back to disorganized ?


Rick,

Most people, myself included, build drawers much deeper than necessary. Lay out the hand tools (hammers, chisels, pliers, etc.)you plan on storing in these drawers and see how many of them won't fit in drawers that are 1-1/2 - 2" net (less bottom and set back) deep - I'll bet that there aren't too many, and you can always build deeper drawers to accommodate them. Why not consider something on the order of the unit shown in the attached? - you could always use LD kitchen cabinet slides if you don't like the dadoes and plywood bottoms. Size it to fit in the area under the workbench, and then continue with deeper drawers as you go across the bench. This is what I'm planning to do when I rebuild my workbench. And the advantage is that the drawers don't have to be as heavy - save money on drawer material and slides and put it towards insulation (Sorry).

I built a rolling cabinet many years ago based on an article in one of the WW magazines, it's worked well, but I would make all the drawers, except maybe the bottom row, shallow like the upper ones. It's way easier to find small tools when there's only one layer - think about a mechanics rolling tool cabinet and you'll see what I'm getting at.


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Rick

100-lb-full-extension-drawer-slide


----------



## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

As Bill said Send those high dollar sides back. Then buy and install some insulation. It will do you a lot more good.


----------



## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I hate that damned spell correction!!


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Weight,...What?*

I'm _still_ boggled, Rick.
More perspective on what you've got there...
A bag of Portland Cement weighs 80#..._Your drawer slides will support 6 of them!!!_Even if you figure an actual working load of 300+#, not the maximum rating, _that's still 4 bags_! I'd like to see you pick up_ 2 bags_ never mind 4...

If you did load a drawer up to 300#, and fully extended it 30", I seriously doubt the cabinet carcass could stand the leveraged strain, and we haven't even looked at the drawer's ability.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

This just popped up, and it seemed appropriately inappropriate...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'm _still_ boggled, Rick.
> More perspective on what you've got there...
> A bag of Portland Cement weighs 80#..._Your drawer slides will support 6 of them!!!_Even if you figure an actual working load of 300+#, not the maximum rating, _that's still 4 bags_! I'd like to see you pick up_ 2 bags_ never mind 4...
> 
> If you did load a drawer up to 300#, and fully extended it 30", I seriously doubt the cabinet carcass could stand the leveraged strain, and we haven't even looked at the drawer's ability.


Portland is 94#...
concrete mix is 80#...

so how was you excursion???


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> I'm _still_ boggled, Rick.
> More perspective on what you've got there...
> A bag of Portland Cement weighs 80#..._Your drawer slides will support 6 of them!!!_Even if you figure an actual working load of 300+#, not the maximum rating, _that's still 4 bags_! I'd like to see you pick up_ 2 bags_ never mind 4...
> 
> If you did load a drawer up to 300#, and fully extended it 30", I seriously doubt the cabinet carcass could stand the leveraged strain, and we haven't even looked at the drawer's ability.


Yes I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed . I suspect these 200 pound extensions would probably have worked but I guess having the drawer/shelf lock while its extended could be a bonus 

Now I'm thinking of it , all those 200 pound extensions I bought may be overkill for holding up the 5 pounds of stuff I'm going to put in them . Sheesh , does it ever end :blink:


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> This just popped up, and it seemed appropriately inappropriate...


Now that's funny . I wonder if someone actually wrote that lol


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I stand corrected on the Portland Cement, but the bagged concrete is only 55#, Stick-ler...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> I stand corrected on the Portland Cement, but the bagged concrete is only 55#, Stick-ler...


You know when you put it like that , now I think 500 pound sliders are overkill ?

I may have to much saw dust between my ears :grin:

Seeing as the vise and Delta grinder are approx 35 pounds combined , this may be a little overkill lol


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I stand corrected on the Portland Cement, but the bagged concrete is only 55#, Stick-ler...


everybody up there light weights???


.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"so how was you excursion???"

We're having November storms in August. As of Thursday last, we had enough accessible water to last till Sept. 12th. Now, after raining for the past 4 days, some of it of deluge proprtions, we're awash in surplus water, downed trees and powerlines, and flooded creeks.
So in short, I got _very_ wet in Vancouver. I picked up 200lin' of what _was_ KD common D. Fir #2...lets just say that the kiln dried part of it isn't (any more).
To make my day perfect, I got back and discovered a bear had gotten into my garbage can enclosure and turned the can into a sieve. Dont'cha just love Nature?

Tens of thousands still without power after Lower Mainland's weekend storm
A little melodramatic even for the media.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Whoa! Apparently we are (lightweights). I blame the metrification.
They probably charge _us_ what _you_ pay for the 80#


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "so how was you excursion???"
> 
> We're having November storms in August. As of Thursday last, we had enough accessible water to last till Sept. 12th. Now, after raining for the past 4 days, some of it of deluge proprtions, we're awash in surplus water, downed trees and powerlines, and flooded creeks.
> So in short, I got _very_ wet in Vancouver. I picked up 200lin' of what _was_ KD common D. Fir #2...lets just say that the kiln dried part of it isn't (any more).
> ...


I seen the news that a half million were without power . We had a wind storm here but luckily the only trees that came down didn't really hurt anything that I'm aware of .
I was in the bucket today in a T shirt almost freezing to death lol . Gotta bring a jacket tomorrow , like what a temperature swing ? :fie:


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, hang on; the bag _i_ showed is in French. The Anglo version is probably more masculine...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

need some????....


.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Whoa! Apparently we are (lightweights). I blame the metrification.
> They probably charge _us_ what _you_ pay for the 80#


was thinking the same thing...
3.50 - 4$....
3 bucks or so for the regular stuff...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I spent a few hours cutting and dadoing 2/4's so that they overlap . I've never had so much saw dust on me in my life , and have to do another 10 pieces tommorow . 

I just had an epiphany , air nail two pieces of mdf onto my work table into a right angle to act as a jig to hold the pieces square while I air nail them together


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

OK, you guys are supposed to be smart. I can't believe that you don't know the difference between the two bags!

Bag #1 is 55# and comes from Canada, the wording on the bag includes French. Bag #2 is 80# and is from Mexico, the wording is in Spanish. 

Have you figured it out yet? No!

The bag from Mexico contains the same amount of mix as the Canadian bag PLUS 25 pounds of drugs. 

All transported by Teamster truck drivers and courteous of NAFTA.

I can't believe you didn't figure this out.:wink:>>


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> OK, you guys are supposed to be smart. I can't believe that you don't know the difference between the two bags!
> 
> Bag #1 is 55# and comes from Canada, the wording on the bag includes French. Bag #2 is 80# and is from Mexico, the wording is in Spanish.
> 
> ...


somebuddy will be by to speak w/ ya about this....


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> everybody up there light weights???
> 
> 
> .





Stick486 said:


> somebuddy will be by to speak w/ ya about this....


What...why? do our friends to the north want in on the deal?


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> What...why? do our friends to the north want in on the deal?


other border...
something about spilt beans or some such....


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> other border...
> something about spilt beans or some such....


No es un problema, hablo blanco de oportunidad!

"Not a problem, I speak target of opportunity!"


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh... you think the weed we send you is a lot lighter?


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Heh... you think the weed we send you is a lot lighter?


:surprise: I dunno, is it?


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Our weed weighs a Kilo...

(Or so I'm told. No personal experience on that topic.)


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Our weed weighs a Kilo...
> 
> (Or so I'm told. No personal experience on that topic.)


Uh, huh!


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

It was weed or overproof rum. I chose rum. 
I was over my limit of bad habits.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Shouldn't we be getting back into Rick's drawers? We completely hijacked his thread. 
Lord knows what Rick's gone and done while we weren't paying attention...


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Shouldn't we be getting back into Rick's drawers?


:surprise::surprise::surprise::surprise::surprise::surprise::surprise::surprise:


----------



## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

pfffffft ... huh? I'm stayin' out of Ricks drawers, thank you very much!


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Shouldn't we be getting back into Rick's drawers?


that so hurt the brain...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I air nailed a few scraps to my work bench to create a jig to speed up assembling all my dividers for the shelves 








Here I have one temporarily in place to see how it fits . The nice thing about this is that I can loosen them off and re screw them in the 2/6's if the drawers don't fit perfect . 


I was worried two contact points for the extentions was not going to be enough so I tried dadoing another slot to add a third board but it wouldn't sit flat enough for some reason and kinda threw a wrench into the whole thing . If I do it again I'll just cut a board to sit in between and use pockets holes 


One thing I learned when I tried to make things fit better with the extra board is that those small Bessey clamps are much stronger than the Irwins . Not that you need to hold things that tight on most projects I suspect .


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Yep. I have a pair of the Irwins. I use them a lot for temporary things. Mainly just to hold something in place (like a third hand). The Bessey's provide much more clamping force. Did I mention that I wrapped those handles with golfer's tape. Greatly increased the gripping power of my poor old arthritic hands.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Yep. I have a pair of the Irwins. I use them a lot for temporary things. Mainly just to hold something in place (like a third hand). The Bessey's provide much more clamping force. Did I mention that I wrapped those handles with golfer's tape. Greatly increased the gripping power of my poor old arthritic hands.


Yes I'm a little disappointed with the Irwins but they still have there place . I find I'm using the small Besseys more than anything so I'm going to buy a bunch more as there cheap , and build a separate rack for them over this work bench as I'm running out of wall space . Will have to reach over the bench to access them , but that's ok . Have one other idea but will see


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes I'm a little disappointed with the Irwins but they still have there place . I find I'm using the small Besseys more than anything so I'm going to buy a bunch more as there cheap , and build a separate rack for them over this work bench as I'm running out of wall space . Will have to reach over the bench to access them , but that's ok . Have one other idea but will see


Do you have Harbor Freight Stores where you live?

These 6 inch quick release bar clamps are great...and cheep! Never thought I would be using both of those words in the same sentence. :grin:
Search results for: 'clamps'

I have a drawer full of them. They get used all the time. Never had one break. I also have four of the 12 inch length and four of the 24's. The 24's will bend if you clamp them too tight. I usually use them to help snug up door pieces during glue up. I will be using them today.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I think Harbor Freight is an American franchise. The Irwins look good though


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No Harbor Freight in Canada, Mike.
As was mentioned on another thread, we have Princess Auto, Canadian Tire, and a bunch of woodworking outlets.
Busy Bee Tools
KMS Tools
Summit Tools
Lee Valley, of course
these guys...
Canadian Woodworker.
Plus others I'm not familiar with from back East
https://www.blackrocktools.com/?gclid=CLi2x7WE2ccCFY9ffgodc0cBXg
There's also the smaller single outlet stores, and the big box lumberyards... (HD, RONA, and HomeBuilders/Home Hardware)


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Woops, forgot Windsor Plywood.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

A lot of folks don't like HF, and probably justified. But if you pick and choose, there are some gems. IMHO, these clamps should be at the top of the gem list.

@Rick - your progress is looking good. Built like a tank.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> A lot of folks don't like HF, and probably justified. But if you pick and choose, there are some gems. IMHO, these clamps should be at the top of the gem list.
> 
> @Rick - your progress is looking good. Built like a tank.


And weighs about the same lol . Can hardly imagine the end result :|

Sure looking forward to having at least one drawer installed tonight . Trying to think of what priorities the first one will have . Thinking a narrow spacer at the front for pencils and markers etc ,followed by my calipers ,dial gauge , tape measures . 
I want to make a drawer dedicated to tape also , and sand paper would sure be nice .
One for Kreg jigs etc 

Mike the drawers are going to be made from BB on the front back and sides and bottom , and I was debating to add an mdf front ?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

tape measure/rulers
box cutter
digital angle finder
small combination square...and a bigger one
pencils/pens/markers/playing cards :surprise: :grin:

All within easy reach. Use 'em every day.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> tape measure/rulers
> box cutter
> digital angle finder
> small combination square...and a bigger one
> ...


Box cutters and rulers , another very good idea !

I need to buy a digital height indicator someday . Those ones they use to set the height on both a router bit and TS blade


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I need to buy ..." No, you don't.
You _want_ to buy.
We've set up an Intervention Committee; we call it the 'Rainman Retirement Plan'.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "I need to buy ..." No, you don't.
> You _want_ to buy.
> We've set up an Intervention Committee; we call it the 'Rainman Retirement Plan'.


Retirement , what's that lol ?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well 3/4" abB in 5'/5' sheets is certainly a pita . I know I've mentioned already it but that size really is awkward to work with . Luckily I bought a track saw as I got it cut to a manageable size and the cuts perfect . Nothing worse than ending up without right angles .

Guys I looked at the again and am having a hard time deciding how wide to make drawers .
Thinking 16" overall , so that will give me 14 1\2" inside width as I'm using 3/4" BB .
I went with 3/4" because I was concerned about the strength after dadoing 1/4" slots for spacers . Wasn't going to dado the slots on the bottom , just the sides .
I did read of guys making square drawers 24"/24" , but I'm thinking that's kinda wide? 
You guys mentioned not to glue the bottom . I googled it and this seems like the popular way of doing it . I really thought the strength wouldn't be there to keep the drawer from flexing and going out of square . I believe there was mention of glueing one end and I'm thinking of doing that . Thought of glueing the bottom to the front of the drawer only , this way if there's any expansion or contraction it should be ok.
Debating to kibosh locking rabbet and just go with rabbet joints also . I guess pocket holes aren't recommended with rabbet joints though , just butt joints?


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

@Rick

*Have a look at this video*, fast, strong and quick drawers.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well 3/4" abB in 5'/5' sheets is certainly a pita . I know I've mentioned already it but that size really is awkward to work with . Luckily I bought a track saw as I got it cut to a manageable size and the cuts perfect . Nothing worse than ending up without right angles .
> 
> Guys I looked at the again and am having a hard time deciding how wide to make drawers .
> Thinking 16" overall , so that will give me 14 1\2" inside width as I'm using 3/4" BB .
> ...


For shallow drawers, consider making the dividers with half lap joints as needed, don't dado the inside of the drawer sides but just tack the ends of the dividers to the inside of the drawer sides with a little fillet of hot melt glue. More than strong enough to hold the dividers in place but can be removed later if needed.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> @Rick
> 
> *Have a look at this video*, fast, strong and quick drawers.


These are the first drawers I built like that using the Kreg Micro and 3/4" long screws, except that I made the bottom with 1/2" plywood because I knew that the drawers were going to be heavily loaded - cut a 1/4" dado in the drawer sides/backs and rabbeted the edges of the bottom until I had a 1/4" tongue. He's right, the drawers built this way are really strong.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom I like the idea of lap joints on the dividers instead of slots weakening the sides etc .

Tom these drawers with pocket holes , he never glued the bottom , I guess you didn't either? 
Also he slid his bottom in and screwed . It looks like you went all the way around and with the rabbet correct? 

I'm really liking the idea of doing the bottom like that 
Dang I bought 3/8" BB for the bottom . Guess I gotta buy a 1/2" sheet and use the 3/8" somewhere else someday


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom I like the idea of lap joints on the dividers instead of slots weakening the sides etc .
> 
> Tom these drawers with pocket holes , he never tied the bottom , I guess you didn't either?
> Also he slid his bottom in and screwed . It looks like you went all the way around and with the rabbet correct?
> ...


Yes, my bottom panel is captured on all four sides, but you could do it like the video - just don't cut the rabbet on the back edge. And there's no reason you can't use the 3/8" for the bottoms (I used 1/2" for these because this is the drawers for my hardware cabinet, and there's a fair bit of weight in each drawer but 3/8" should be more than good enough for your drawers. Go ahead and cut your 1/4" wide x 1/4" deep dadoes (no worries about "fit", use a 1/4" dado or router bit. Cut the rabbet along the edges of the bottom, sneaking up on the height until you're left with 1/4" (maybe a little light so it slides into the dadoes). Finish up by cutting off the back at the top of the dado so the bottom slides in after the drawer is assembled - the way I did it was a real PITA, screwed the top to two sides, slid the bottom in and then screwed the back in between the two side, felt like I needed at least one more hand. His way is definitely easier - and the way that a lot of drawers are made.

I don't remember if I glued the bottom into the dadoes or not, I know I glued the corner joint because I can see the glue on the photos. I don't think it's a problem either way, not really worried about expansion/contraction on plywood (probably start a discussion on that subject) - my thought, given the thin side material (mine is 1/2"), the glue would help keep the sides from bulging although again that shouldn't be a problem on these small drawers. These drawers are going on 4 years old now, get used a lot and have shown no problems.

Even with a straight divider (no "egg-crate"), I've never had a problem with just gluing in the divider with hot melt - Chippendale, Hepplewhite and Sheraton are probably turning over in their graves, but it's just a shop cabinet after all - if all the dividers are doing is separating contents of the drawer.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well Tom like I said I wish had seen this before I bought the 3/8 as I really like the idea of the bottom done the way you did it . Doing pocket holes with a butt joint will make things easy too. I think cutting a dado of 1/4 on a 3/8 board is not leaving enough material ,so
I'm going to see if they will exchange the 3/8


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well Tom like I said I wish had seen this before I bought the 3/8 as I really like the idea of the bottom done the way you did it . Doing pocket holes with a butt joint will make things easy too. I think cutting a dado of 1/4 on a 3/8 board is not leaving enough material ,so
> I'm going to see if they will exchange the 3/8


Sorry, not explaining myself - you'll have a 1/4" x 1/4" dado in the sides and front so you'll have to cut an 1/8" deep rabbet on the edge of your bottom material, leaving a lip that's 1/4" thick to fit in the groove.

You still have 1/4" material inside the groove (like using a piece of 1/4" plywood) except that the thicker material is going to deflect much less and resist pulling, at an extreme, out of the groove.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

@Rick



tomp913 said:


> ........You still have 1/4" material inside the groove (like using a piece of 1/4" plywood) except that the thicker material is going to deflect much less and resist pulling, at an extreme, out of the groove.


For a drawer holding sand paper and marking out tools 3/8" ply is plenty good enough. It's only if you decide to put Every screw you own that you'd need 1/2" ply.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Rick...I think you will appreciate this...do a youtube search for "the ultimate space saving workbench for the garage"...note the drawers as well as the goodies he built in...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Now _that's_ organization! 
(Some fool said, _"Betcha $20 you can't get the whole load on your truck." _ )


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Sorry, not explaining myself - you'll have a 1/4" x 1/4" dado in the sides and front so you'll have to cut an 1/8" deep rabbet on the edge of your bottom material, leaving a lip that's 1/4" thick to fit in the groove.
> 
> You still have 1/4" material inside the groove (like using a piece of 1/4" plywood) except that the thicker material is going to deflect much less and resist pulling, at an extreme, out of the groove.


I'm sorry for the confusion Tom , but I understood you the first time around . I just don't like the fact that the inside bottom piece will only have an 1/8" left . I realize it will still be a 1/4" thick around the perimeter going into the sides front and back slot that I dado in , but if I want the bottom to be flush ,, that dado slot that I cut in the sides front and back will only be an 1/8th inch from the bottom not providing a lot of strength . I guess I could leave the dado slot a 1/4" up and just have the bottom piece an 1/8" off the bottom . If that makes any sense lol .

Maybe I can use the 3/8s for dividers ?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> I'm sorry for the confusion Tom , but I understood you the first time around . I just don't like the fact that the inside bottom piece will only have an 1/8" left . I realize it will still be a 1/4" thick around the perimeter going into the sides front and back slot that I dado in , but if I want the bottom to be flush ,, that dado slot that I cut in the sides front and back will only be an 1/8th inch from the bottom not providing a lot of strength . I guess I could leave the dado slot a 1/4" up and just have the bottom piece an 1/8" off the bottom . If that makes any sense lol .
> 
> Maybe I can use the 3/8s for dividers ?


You might consider raising the dado up and allow what ever you think you might need underneath it. Granted the bottom will not be flush, but most drawer bottoms are not. You could also give a 3/8" dado.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> You might consider raising the dado up and allow what ever you think you might need underneath it. Granted the bottom will not be flush, but most drawer bottoms are not. You could also give a 3/8" dado.
> Herb


Well a 3/8" dado is what it's coming to . Just wish I would have known about Tom's idea prior to buying the BB as I really like it . 

I'm going to see if I damaged my 3/8"s BB and if not I'm going to see if they will let me return it and buy 1/2" instead . 
I think I may have scratched the 3/8s though , as its a real pain to pick up and it may have rubbed on my TS as I tried to lay it on top .
I was just about to use my track saw to break it down to a more ergonomic size when I took a break and read Tom's post


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Rick,

I copied the general cabinet design from an article in Woodsmith - the drawer bottom worked out the way it is based on their design as the need to have a relatively stiff drawer because of the weight. For a regular drawer bottom, 1/4" is perfectly adequate. As you already have the 3/8" material, I'd go ahead and use it - nobody is ever going to know that the plywood is not flush with the drawer bottom - either cut a 3/8" rabbet 1/4" up from the bottom or trim the plywood to fit in the 1/4" dado per the sketch. Look at the video that Nickp posted - the drawer bottom is up 1/4" from the side, that's pretty standard for a normal duty drawer. The drawer bottoms in my rolling cabinet are 1/4" Masonite hardboard, set up 1/4" from the bottom, no problems in 20+ years.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow very nice Tom! 

And yes as always I'm worrying to much . I'll try that and see how it goes . I just really liked your idea because I thought it would help with keeping everything square


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Wow very nice Tom!
> 
> And yes as always I'm worrying to much . I'll try that and see how it goes . I just really liked your idea because I thought it would help with keeping everything square


It doesn't keep it square any different than a normal bottom - the bottom only touches the sides at the bottom of the dado as the width of the rabbet is a slight bit more than the depth of the dado. The slide in bottom may be easier to check/adjust square as you can move the alignment a little and then nail the bottom in place, kind of like using a cabinet back to square up the assembly at the end.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well Tom for the heck of it I'm going to leave the back short so that I can slide the bottom in after its assembled and try that route. Interested to see if it helps me keeping things square . 
Now just have to decide whether to do a rabbet joint , a locking rabbet joint or butt joints with pocket holes for the construction .
I do get a kick out of locking rabbet joints as there's a little bit of thinking to set up. With a normal rabbet joint I don't see how you get screws in without splitting the wood as there's not a lot of material for the screw . Guess pre drilling and countersinking helps .
I have been using 18 gauge brads and glue on all my past attempts


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> .......Interested to see if it helps me keeping things square .


The drawer slides will stop the drawer going out of square along with square cuts on the end of the side pieces. Unless the base is really tight, which doesn't allow for expansion so much, the base won't keep the drawer square, it should be the corner joints do that.



RainMan1 said:


> .......Now just have to decide whether to do a rabbet joint , a locking rabbet joint or butt joints with pocket holes for the construction .
> I do get a kick out of locking rabbet joints..........


If you're practicing the joints then go for it but if it's a workshop drawer for drawers sake, then why make more work when pocket holes will do the job very well. For added strength you can glue the corners too when using pocket screws.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Re leaving the bottom panel floating at the back.
Bad idea. You're giving up the support on the 4th edge of the bottom. This from the guy with the 500# slides!

That just invites deflection of the bottom over time. Neither necessary nor desirable...re-inventing the drawer, as it were. Why are you even worried about slipping the panel in during the drawer assembly? Try it dry and see how simple it is.
Listen to the guys here who've made a bazillion drawers over the years; you're overthinking this process. _(I don't include myself in the Drawer Guru Club) _


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Re leaving the bottom panel floating at the back.
> Bad idea. You're giving up the support on the 4th edge of the bottom. This from the guy with the 500# slides!
> 
> That just invites deflection of the bottom over time. Neither necessary nor desirable...re-inventing the drawer, as it were. Why are you even worried about slipping the panel in during the drawer assembly? Try it dry and see how simple it is.
> Listen to the guys here who've made a bazillion drawers over the years; you're overthinking this process. _(I don't include myself in the Drawer Guru Club) _


Dan I wasn't going to leave it floating but put screws in the bottom rear piece from underneith screwing into the back like they did in the video . Thought it was kinda cool being able to replace he bottom if neccesary . Shouldn't come to that though. 
I really wanted to glue the bottom in around the entire dado slot perimeter but it seems like it's a bad idea due to expansion 

As for the corner joints , if you guys feel butt joints with pocket screws are good enough then pocket screws it is . It will save me time ,thats for sure. And I need time to get some insulation in and it's getting cold already!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_"...if you guys feel butt joints with pocket screws are good enough then pocket screws it is"_
-Rainman

I think that was _your_ concept; most other input has been for dadoed and glued corners (not to mention all the _other_ highly desirable drawer joints )
Screwed drawers are unnecessary and inadvisable if you're using plywood. 
Why are you making this complicated? You've been buying all the precision tools; time to put them to work! 
Our Grandparents did this with handsaws, chisels and hammers, using real lumber.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Correction:
Sorry Angie; that was _your_ suggestion re the buttjoint~ pocket hole route, not Rick's.

I still disagree but only with the joint technology vis-a-vis drawer construction. Your observation about being workshop drawers is spot on.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Dan I wasn't going to leave it floating but put screws in the bottom rear piece from underneith screwing into the back like they did in the video . Thought it was kinda cool being able to replace he bottom if neccesary . Shouldn't come to that though.
> I really wanted to glue the bottom in around the entire dado slot perimeter but it seems like it's a bad idea due to expansion
> 
> As for the corner joints , if you guys feel butt joints with pocket screws are good enough then pocket screws it is . It will save me time ,thats for sure. And I need time to get some insulation in and it's getting cold already!


Rick,

Let's talk about expansion.

How does wood expand? If you don't know wood will expand across the grain much more then along the grain. When you use a solid wood panel, you always leave room for expansion. The solid wood will move within the drawer/door ends/sides. Again, more so across the grain then along the grain.

Because it moves (even if it is minuscule) you should NOT glue the panel to restrict the movement. If you do, you run the risk of splitting, warping or other undesirable events happening.

Now lets discuss plywood. What do you know about plywood? You have heard that it is more "stable" then solid wood, right? Why? How is plywood made?

OK we all know and understand that PLY-wood is made of several layers glued together, right? How are they arranged? Each layer is alternated 90º to each other. Count the number of plys, you will find an odd number. This is so the two outside plys have the same grain direction orientation. 

Why are they alternated 90º? Remember, wood expands more across the grain. By alternating the direction all of the plys, which are attached by glue, it limits the movement of the adjacent ply. For all practical purposes let's just say they cancel or minimize each others movement. This is why plywood is said to be more stable.

Since plywood exhibits little or no movement (expansion) then it generally maintains its original dimension. So, when you use plywood for a drawer bottom or door panel, expect that once it is in place it will not move/expand, but will stay put.

Now, since there is generally no movement there are two schools of thought. Either float the piece or glue it in place, since it highly unlikely to move.

If gluing is the choice, again, there are two thoughts. Some glue along the whole length and some choose to only glue a small section in the middle of the length (side). The point being it is perfectly acceptable to glue the plywood in. 

I do this on all of my smaller drawers. On larger drawers (24" +)I may only glue the very middle and leave the ends to float. This allows for expansion to occur (if it ever does) to prevent those unwanted events. 

I typically, use 1/4" plywood for my drawer bottoms. Some folks will use 1/4 "tempered" hardboard. Without crunching numbers to prove the point, I will just say, that the chances of you "blowing out" a 1/4" plywood drawer bottom due to overloading is rare. Unless you load that 21 cu/ft refrigerator onto those 500# slides, that is!

The chances that you will have to replace a drawer bottom is in the noise level area. If you use hardboard, that eventually sags over time from overloading, you won't have to slide the bottom out of the back for replacement.

Unless you feel that you will have to replace a drawer bottom there is NO reason to cut the back to allow the bottom to be removed.

Now, why do I glue my bottoms into the drawer sides? Paranoia I guess, I have seen too many cheaply made cabinet drawers with sagging bottoms and pulled apart joints. I know that my drawers will be used, abused, slammed, jerked and overloaded and I don't want them to come apart. So, I glue them to provide and maintain strength and squareness.

So, don't glue solid wood, and glue or don't glue plywood. Everyone does it their own way for their own reasons. You need to take this info and do further research on your own, and decide what is best for what you want and are doing.

Glue the plywood bottoms if you want, but support it on ALL four sides.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well that's Bill and Dan , it's back to plan "A" 

Bill I'll make the drawers 24" wide and glue the whole bottom perimeter . I kinda thought plywood would help when it comes to expansion etc.

The is good timing as I just got up after night shift and am about to start cutting 

Can't seem to really wake up so hopefully I don't loose a finger or something stupid


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Hey @Rick
Here's some drawer building videos for you.





More. This what I plan to do with the 1/2 inch stuff. Only I will put the rabbet in the front/back. Less math that way.





This guy makes drawer building look easy...sloppy but easy.





Pocket screws. UGH!





More...


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Just saw in your post saying you were going to start insulating. Made me so excited I jumped up and ran around my chair 3 times.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Shop guy said:


> Just saw in your post saying you were going to start insulating. Made me so excited I jumped up and ran around my chair 3 times.


OMG :lol: 

Now I really have to do it


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No plan. No wiring in. Not gonna happen.
Perfect weather for putting everything out on the driveway too...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> No plan. No wiring in. Not gonna happen.
> Perfect weather for putting everything out on the driveway too...


Really, Dan! Come on, really? 2:1 odds.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Really, Dan! Come on, really? 2:1 odds.


Yea I'm afraid Dan may be right . How the heck did winter get here so quick :|

I don't even think the glue on my drawers will dry today


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Zippered lips.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Odd if it Does*



schnewj said:


> Really, Dan! Come on, really? 2:1 odds.


Which way? >


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Yea I'm afraid Dan may be right . How the heck did winter get here so quick :|


Why don't you surprise everyone and actually start. Just between two studs would be a great start.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> Why don't you surprise everyone and actually start. Just between two studs would be a great start.


You know Bob just starting with two studs may just be the kick start I need . First though I gotta get organized . Going to build drawers today


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Which way? >


Which way do you think?:wink:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I have 3 ready for assembly minus the bottoms . Going to cut them out right away and start building .
I have to say Baltic Birch is an absolute pleasure to work with and I don't think I'll ever touch conventional plywood again . 
I just dadoed in the slots for the 3/8" bottom but these pics don't reflect that . I thought I'd test fit the pieces first to make sure they all fit correctly .
I wish I had more material ready as once the blades are set perfectly it sure would save time doing a bunch at a time .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm thinking MDF for the fronts guys . Or would BB look ok with rounded over edges ?

I thought 24" was to wide so I made these a bit slimmer , I think 16" , but I'm kinda wishing I went 20" . 
How wide is too wide ? There 26" deep .
I can make the next 3 that sit beside these whatever I want


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

If you want that plywood smooth, take a damp rag and wipe the sides. Not soppin' wet, just damp. That will raise the grain. Give the wood a little time to dry, then sand it lightly with 320 grit on your ROS.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

This sure has been a good thread. Thanks to everyone.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I cut a piece of wood 3" deep to act as a jig to line up the outer extension 


Drawer on and no face yet . I can see where I'm going to need some filler pieces so it doesn't look so amateurish .
The inside of the drawer is 15-1/2" wide . I was thinking a 24" wide drawer may be to wiggly from side to side? 



I wanted to but didn't dado out the sides for dividers . I'm going to build a little divider box for the very front to store markers , then have a space for things dedicated to calibration . After the other two drawers are mounted underneith I'm going to use some of the 3/8" BB for dividers inside the drawers . Maybe lap joint them together making them into a stiff grid .
Maybe the drawer to the right of this one will be dedicated to tape .Always looking for my duct tape and masking tape etc


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I keep on forgetting how to do things as the first time I had the drawer on end and I was trying to like the extention up and having accuracy issues . Never occurred to me to just put it down on the table as its providing a flat reference . 
I stood the extension up beside the drawer and put in the first screw on the right after I got the tip of the extension flush 


Then I slid the extension towards the back and put the rest of the screws in


I air nail my jig temporarily in place to install the cabinet side of the drawer . I started from the top down which is backwards from the videos I seen , but I'm going to raise the toe kick at the bottom as I would like it a few inches higher so I installed the drawers from the top down after I got my clearance measurements .
Using this piece of BB worked perfectly for a spacer to set the heights 


Still have to put faces on ,but got three in and there working great 




I picked this plastic tray up at Canadian Tire and it's actually meant to fit there craftman tool boxes. I'm going to cheat and use it in a drawer where I'll be storing my dremels . 
Going to have to make a wide drawer as this is 22-1/2" wide , so I'll make the next set to the right of these 24" wide . Maybe two shallow ones and one deeper one 


This would certainly be going faster if I had all the pieces cut out and did all the joining while the dado was already set on the TS . Live and learn I guess :|


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

You are going to love those drawers.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> You are going to love those drawers.


Thank you Mike . Only 9 more to go 

I'm heading to the garage to make the 2 footers . Not sure what I'll do with the other bank of drawers after that .

I dang near feel like finishing the rest with the rabbet joint that you suggested as the locking ones are a bit time consuming .
I learned a lesson , don't make the dadoed slot that holds the bottom piece very tight as it makes its a PITA to assemble . I'm going to make them looser this time . Last go around I thought I had it set quite well and the bottom would slide fairly good on the slot , but for some reason that I don't understand things went south and some pieces wouldn't fit so I had to set up the dado all over again and go threw them all . 
It won't happen again as I'm going to have a little more leeway this time.

Another mistake I made . When I dadoed all the front backs and sides to fit the bottom I never really measured the depth , just eye balled what I thought looked good for support . Well it sure makes it difficult to get a measure to for the bottom as they were under 1/4" each. 
This time I'll make a dado slot at a 1/4" deep , then I'll know that I need to make the bottom just under a 1/2" bigger each way .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Roy Drake said:


> This sure has been a good thread. Thanks to everyone.


Roy I didn't have a clue how to proceed , but these guys certainly steered me in the right direction . Sure nice getting input from others  

Although this is nothing overly technical for someone that knows what there doing , it's really helping me with my confidence level as before I was pretty intimidated by it all .
I sure get frustrated when I make mistakes but I've made some major strides lately .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I think I may have the drawers to close together now ? I only have 1/2" of clearance from each one . I can put a face on but if I want rails it's going to be tight .

Guess I cut a new jig and re space . How much room is there typically between drawers from top to bottom , or is it a personal preference thing?

My first idea was to put vertical filler pieces (stiles?) in between the drawers sides after the faces go on , but no rails


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I think you will be OK. Don't make any sudden moves! Think about it for a few beers and it should work out fine.

Start with the bottom drawer. You will probably have to make it the same height or maybe just a tad taller than the existing drawer box.

Then put a spacer on top of it just thick enough so the bottom of the next drawer front will overlap a little. Make the next drawer front.

You will probably end up with a small space in between the drawer fronts of around 1/8th inch.

Drill holes in the front of the drawer box so you can run screws in from inside the box for attaching the drawer front. See picture below. Make the holes a little larger than the screw shaft so you will have a little room for adjustment. I use pocket screws when I can because they have the washer head. Course thread for soft wood and fine thread for hard wood.

Hope this helps. Lemme know if you want a drawing.

Remember the liquor cabinet, I had to do the same thing, only I had 3/4 inch to work with. So it was 1/4 overlap on each drawer and 1/4 space in between.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I think I may have the drawers to close together now ? I only have about 3-4" of clearance from each one . I can put a face on but if I want rails it's going to be tight .
> 
> Guess I cut a new jig and re space . How much room is there typically between drawers from top to bottom , or is it a personal preference thing?
> 
> My first idea was to put vertical filler pieces (stiles?) in between the drawers sides after the faces go on , but no rails


OK, Rick, I'll try and help you. First, your question is a double edged sword. I need to ask, what were you planning on or really looking for when you laid them out?

If you are just going to keep small stuff in them you are limited to the heights of the drawers themselves. Just put face plates on the fronts and leave a "small" gap between the faces to make sure they don't bind. 

If you were looking to place larger items that stick above the sides of the drawers, then you will have to move the slides. Again, make the faces and attach.

Here are two examples, that you have seen before. The planer stand has two drawers that are spaced apart. I can store larger items that stick above the side as long has those items don't hit the structures above it. The drill press stand are full depth drawers (sorry I don't have a photo of them open). The faces that you see on all three drawers is the basic height of all three drawers. There is only about a 1/4" gap between the actual drawers and about a 1/8" gap between the faces.

Does this help?

Your OK and don't need to redo the drawers unless there is not enough clearance for what you were going to place in the drawers. If you have larger items, then space the next drawers further apart.

The problem is the aesthetics. Ideally, all the drawer faces should be the same size, or smaller ones next to larger ones. Whatever, looks good to you. This is where prior planning comes into play. 

Stop, take a deep breath and decide what you are really going for with the layout.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks guys . No issues clearance wise but at the beginning I wasn't that critical , but now I'm thinking about dust getting in the drawers and thought that maybe it would be best to build a grid pattern of stiles and rails for the front so that there's some overlap for the drawer faces all around there perimeter . Put that pocket hole jig to work  

My first intention was to have a small gap from the tops and bottoms of each drawer and just air nail in vertical filler pieces on the sides between the drawers .

Tough call , but if I want I do have a lot of real estate to drop all of them . But I was looking at this as a work bench too, so it doesn't have to look like a piece of furniture . And I really want this done so I get some insulation up before its to late again :fie:

Guys if I do put in rails between drawers , seeing as the material is going to be 1/2" thick , what's the thinnest I can make them from there top to bottom and still get a pocket hole or two in .
I'm thinking one pocket hole wouldn't be enough to attach to the stiles ? Although it would be glued


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bill I never thought of spacing the drawers further apart to make room for taller things. And in that case you could put a kibosh on the the rail as it would get in the way , just a taller face . Not that a rail couldn't be installed , but the extra clearance would be nice if a rail wasn't there . 
Keeping there faces close together vertically should help with dust I'm hoping? 
But I'm tempted to lower them now just for clearance sakes , although I don't think it's neccesary.
On the next third set of drawers I was going to make a couple of deeper ones , so they all won't be the same height


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Decisions decisions . This is going to drive me crazy . Maybe I'll drop them all and build a stile and rail front . Dropping them is only a few hours of my day gone anyways lol


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Bill I never thought of spacing the drawers further apart to make room for taller things. And in that case you could put a kibosh on the the rail as it would get in the way , just a taller face . Not that a rail couldn't be installed , but the extra clearance would be nice if a rail wasn't there .
> Keeping there faces close together vertically should help with dust I'm hoping?
> But I'm tempted to lower them now just for clearance sakes , although I don't think it's neccesary.
> On the next third set of drawers I was going to make a couple of deeper ones , so they all won't be the same height


Don't be too worried about the dust. Keep the gaps between the faces narrow and most of the dust won't be and issue. Rest assured, no matter what you do, dust will infiltrate. Through the gaps, that drawer that wasn't quite shut all the way, whatever! 

Put faces on the drawers you have already done and go build the rest.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Don't be too worried about the dust. Keep the gaps between the faces narrow and most of the dust won't be and issue. Rest assured, no matter what you do, dust will infiltrate. Through the gaps, that drawer that wasn't quite shut all the way, whatever!
> 
> Put faces on the drawers you have already done and go build the rest.


Ok that's how I'm going to proceed then


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Do a quick check on some scrap. I think 1 1/4 might be the minimum width for two pocket screws to be used on a rail. I wouldn't use just one screw. Or install the rail flat and just use a 3/4 inch width like I did on the liquor cabinet.

The drawer slides are easy to relocate.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Whoa; nice DP setup, Bill! _Really_ nice stand/drawers. That matched grain on the drawer fronts looks great.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Do a quick check on some scrap. I think 1 1/4 might be the minimum width for two pocket screws to be used on a rail. I wouldn't use just one screw. Or install the rail flat and just use a 3/4 inch width like I did on the liquor cabinet.
> 
> The drawer slides are easy to relocate.


Well that's what I thought too about the slides . Thanks for the heads up on the rail 
It may not hurt to relocate them all and at least it would give me the option if I want .

Dang I fell short by 6"s of 3/8" BB before I could finish the third drawer bottom . Hopefully WP has small pieces a guy can buy . 

After triple checking and running all pieces threw twice I ended up with some pieces that fit to tight in my locking rabbet joints .For the life of me I'll never understand how it happens but it does . 
Went to buy a shoulder plane but of course nothing like that here . This town has its limits that's for sure .
Thinking of a piece of sandpaper on a piece of wood and see how well that goes , but may as well just set the whole thing up again


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Whoa; nice DP setup, Bill! _Really_ nice stand/drawers. That matched grain on the drawer fronts looks great.


Thanks, Dan, I try! Then, again, a lot of folks thing I'm very trying>>>


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Well that's what I thought too about the slides . Thanks for the heads up on the rail
> It may not hurt to relocate them all and at least it would give me the option if I want .
> 
> Dang I fell short by 6"s of 3/8" BB before I could finish the third drawer bottom . Hopefully WP has small pieces a guy can buy .
> ...


If your lucky! However, partial sheets seem to command almost as much as a full sheet. I would rather have a full sheet, use what I need and have some immediately available for any other projects that come up.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> If your lucky! However, partial sheets seem to command almost as much as a full sheet. I would rather have a full sheet, use what I need and have some immediately available for any other projects that come up.


I thought the same thing Bill , other than I didn't think a piece of 3/8" would come in that handy in the future again . Wouldn't hurt my feelings to have 1/2" and 3/4" around though .
I can see 3/8" working well for internal dividers though . I sure am a fan of Baltic Birch plywood and don't think I could justify buying a normal sheet anymore . 

Well I glued up the one drawer earlier and then went for a turkey dinner , so now it's time to glue up the second and then re locate all the sliders on the first bank


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I can't believe how much time this stuff eats up . I had really wanted to have the next bank installed , but I did the re space and two of the bigger ones are built .
I have 1-1/2" between the drawers now except on the bottom toe kick where I need to cut off a 1/2" 


Found a plastic drawer organizer at Staples , but I think I'll move it down to another level as its taking to much real estate .I think I'll build a wooden lap jointed divider instead 


I made the next bank of drawers wider and intentionally made it the same width as this plastic insert from Canadian Tire . Dedicating the second one down to my Dremels and all those little parts associated with them . Thought the pre made insert would be handy in this case


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I like the spacing you have now. You should be able to work with that.

My first drawer under the table top has a little plastic tray for pencils,pens, erasers, and chalk.

The rest of it has a folding ruler, 12 foot tape measure, the digital calipers, angle finder, playing cards (shims) and some other stuff. Those items get used a lot. Almost like having them in an apron pocket.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Rick,

Much, much better spaced out. Now, just attach some faces with some pulls and be done with that bank.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> I like the spacing you have now. You should be able to work with that.
> 
> My first drawer under the table top has a little plastic tray for pencils,pens, erasers, and chalk.
> 
> The rest of it has a folding ruler, 12 foot tape measure, the digital calipers, angle finder, playing cards (shims) and some other stuff. Those items get used a lot. Almost like having them in an apron pocket.


Mike I'm also trying to dedicate the closest highest drawer to the things your mentioning and that insert is taking up to much room so I'll build a tray with dividers for pencils and markers .
Have been looking for a digital height gauges too and found this tonight

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=68816&cat=1,43513,43553,68816

Much better deal than the Wixey at Amazon,ca that looks practically identical 

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B006WMRVS4?keywords=Height gauges&qid=1441682308&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

Mike how about this . Do I need one? 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=64278&cat=1,43513


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a protractor similar to that one. Don't use it often, but it does come in handy.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Mike I'm also trying to dedicate the closest highest drawer to the things your mentioning and that insert is taking up to much room so I'll build a tray with dividers for pencils and markers .
> Have been looking for a digital height gauges too and found this tonight
> 
> Digital Tool-Setting Gauge - Lee Valley Tools
> ...


The gauges are identical, go with the best deal. Be aware that it is plastic, so you have to be careful with it. It works OK for router table, table saw, and it will measure depth if the groove or dado if it is wide enough. I have, also, used one to check the knives in the jointer. They do have magnets in the bottoms of both legs...not real strong ones.

You really don't need the digital angle gauge. You would be better of buying an angle gauge box for your saw blade if you don't have one already.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> The gauges are identical, go with the best deal. Be aware that it is plastic, so you have to be careful with it. It works OK for router table, table saw, and it will measure depth if the groove or dado if it is wide enough. I have, also, used one to check the knives in the jointer. They do have magnets in the bottoms of both legs...not real strong ones.
> 
> You really don't need the digital angle gauge. You would be better of buying an angle gauge box for your saw blade if you don't have one already.


Wish i couod find a netal one but i googled it and im not seeing one in that style.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Wish i couod find a netal one but i googled it and im not seeing one in that style.


For the price, they are OK, but not great! I use mine occasionally for that rare need to be on the button adjustments, but I find that my set up bars are quicker and get me in the ball park quicker. I have a set of brass bars and, also, a set of steel ones that are nothing more then keys from 1/16 to 3/4" from the hardware store.

My only complaint is that the steel ones are too short. However, you can get longer ones for a reasonable price from places like Grainger, or McMaster Carr. I'm sure you have a Canadian equivalent.

One of these days I may break down an buy a set of Kreg set-up gauges. They handle just about any set-up that you would need.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ì


schnewj said:


> The gauges are identical, go with the best deal. Be aware that it is plastic, so you have to be careful with it. It works OK for router table, table saw, and it will measure depth if the groove or dado if it is wide enough. I have, also, used one to check the knives in the jointer. They do have magnets in the bottoms of both legs...not real strong ones.
> 
> You really don't need the digital angle gauge. You would be better of buying an angle gauge box for your saw blade if you don't have one already.


Wish I could find a metal one but when I googled it and I'm not seeing one in that style.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Wish i couod find a netal one but i googled it and im not seeing one in that style.


Here's one iGaging 6'' MiniMag Magnetic Digital Height Gauge - Fractional | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware I have the Kreg set-up gauges (a Christmas gift from my wife) and they are very versatile - use them on the TS, router table and to set up plunge router. If you need, for example, a dado that is deeper than a set size to give clearance in an assembly - e.g. 1/2" + .010" - just place .010" shim stock under the feet and raise the blade until it just touches the gauge.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

This might be considered old fashioned, but I use these set up bars from Kreg.

I like the idea the bar spans the insert plate on the table saw.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> This might be considered old fashioned, but I use these set up bars from Kreg.
> 
> I like the idea the bar spans the insert plate on the table saw.


Thanks guys . Tom I'm liking that gauge . Mike I just noticed those Kreg bars yesterday and thought it was an odd concept , but seeing as you like them I'm going to order them


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

What else do you need? I can help? >


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Although I have some brass set up bars, I've found that sometimes absolute precision isn't necessary. For example when setting the fence to make a groove 1/4" in from the edge in drawer sides to hold the bottom or setting the depth of the groove, or for setting a reveal.

That's when I use my simple shop-made set-up guides. Mine were ripped out of some 3/4 oak and are within a few thousands of being accurate. That's close enough for a lot of my projects and the long length and 3/4" height make them easy to use.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Good idea Oliver 

However , I'm trying to see if MT can put me into bankruptcy lol.
I'm considering doing a digital gauge system on my TS fence . I can see where it could really come in useful lately . Need a micro adjuster on my fence too.

I've had to remove my dado to do a cut when I ran out of drawer sides , and I never seem to get things the same exact height again no matter how hard I try .
Was thinking a dig fence gauge may help restore the same settings?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Thanks Oliver. I have several that start at 1 1/2 and go up to 3 inches.

Like you said, sometimes precision isn't necessary.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Good idea Oliver
> 
> However , I'm trying to see if MT can put me into bankruptcy lol.
> I'm considering doing a digital gauge system on my TS fence . I can see where it could really come in useful lately . Need a micro adjuster on my fence too.
> ...


Rick,

I think that your fence rail is a piece of angle iron - if you need a "micro-adjuster" (or a way to return to a setting), make up a block that clamps to the rail and has a stop that registers on the end of your fence that rides on the rail. If you need to move the cut over a little, use the block in combination with some feeler gauges to get an exact adjustment.
- if you want to move the fence AWAY from the blade, set the block until it touches the end of the fence, move the fence to the right, put the feeler gauges in place and move the fence back to the LEFT until it lightly pinches the feeler gauges.
- if you want to move the fence CLOSER to the blade, loosen the block, move it to the left and put the feeler gauges between the fence and the block. Lock down the block and move the fence LEFT until it hits the stop.
- if you have the saw set to cut something specific. lock the stop against the fence (either side depending on whether you're cutting something wider or narrower) and then move the fence back against the stop when you've finished.

My good rip blade cuts a .127" kerf - if I want to groove a drawer side for an odd-size plywood, I measure the thickness of the plywood, add .005" or so depending on how consistent the plywood is, move the stop in the appropriate direction and set the "gap" equal to the groove + clearance - blade width, lock it in place and then move the fence over to touch. Takes a lot less time to do than it takes to explain.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks guys . Tom I'm liking that gauge . Mike I just noticed those Kreg bars yesterday and thought it was an odd concept , but seeing as you like them I'm going to order them


Buy me a set too! I don't have one either.:wink:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Good idea Oliver
> 
> However , I'm trying to see if MT can put me into bankruptcy lol.
> I'm considering doing a digital gauge system on my TS fence . I can see where it could really come in useful lately . Need a micro adjuster on my fence too.
> ...


Uh, uh, let me help, let me help! How about an INCRA for the table. Accurate to a hair and totally repeatable.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Uh, uh, let me help, let me help! How about an INCRA for the table. Accurate to a hair and totally repeatable.:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:


Bill I never thought of that for repeatability . I just think it would be a waste to jetison my fence at this point . 
Not sure if they fit my model as I'm a little deeper than most TS's


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Rick,
> 
> I think that your fence rail is a piece of angle iron - if you need a "micro-adjuster" (or a way to return to a setting), make up a block that clamps to the rail and has a stop that registers on the end of your fence that rides on the rail. If you need to move the cut over a little, use the block in combination with some feeler gauges to get an exact adjustment.
> - if you want to move the fence AWAY from the blade, set the block until it touches the end of the fence, move the fence to the right, put the feeler gauges in place and move the fence back to the LEFT until it lightly pinches the feeler gauges.
> ...


That's a good idea Tom , thx


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys this isn't priced to outrageously , what do you think of this height gauge . Not sure how well it would work on a router table as mines not cast , but on the TS it may be handy .

Digital Height Gauge - Lee Valley Tools


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys this isn't priced to outrageously , what do you think of this height gauge . Not sure how well it would work on a router table as mines not cast , but on the TS it may be handy .
> 
> Digital Height Gauge - Lee Valley Tools


*
NO, no, no*! Why do you want to spend $65 instead of $20 to do the same thing. I know, it looks pretty, impressive, more durable...but the truth is, that, you can get the same results for a 1/3 of the price.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Good idea Oliver
> 
> However , I'm trying to see if MT can put me into bankruptcy lol.
> I'm considering doing a digital gauge system on my TS fence . I can see where it could really come in useful lately . Need a micro adjuster on my fence too.
> ...


That is exactly why I set up a second TS a Bosch contractors saw.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> That is exactly why I set up a second TS a Bosch contractors saw.
> Herb


Ok I'll kibosh that and go with the other . Guys I just seen a YouTube video on the Wixey angle gauge that makes sure your blade is accurately set . Looks like a good investment.
This isn't the Wixey but it's similar . Have to see what Amazon.ca wants for it if they have the Wixey 
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67350&cat=1,43513





Herb Stoops said:


> That is exactly why I set up a second TS a Bosch contractors saw.
> Herb


Herb if I win the lotto I'm definitely going to have a shop with 2 cabinet saws


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok there are mixed reviews on these angle finders . This one from China seems to get the best reviews but is a little more expensive

http://www.amazon.ca/FOME-Dual-axis...ywords=DXL360+Digital+Protractor+Angle+finder


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@Rick - more things to buy. >


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@Rick - Speedy Gonzalez!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok there are mixed reviews on these angle finders . This one from China seems to get the best reviews but is a little more expensive
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/FOME-Dual-axis...ywords=DXL360+Digital+Protractor+Angle+finder


I got a Wixley off of eBay for around $25.65 including shipping. Why pay this much for the same thing in a different set of clothes?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> @Rick - more things to buy. >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3osWhaGxvg


Rick,

Did you pay attention to how he did the drawers. Nice, simple, easy approach. 

My only criticism is the use of hardboard for the drawer bottoms. Hardboard has a tendency to sag (which is why he made it removable/replaceable). I prefer to use plywood and only do it once. More strength and able to handle heavier items.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> @Rick - more things to buy. >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3osWhaGxvg


Wow loving the corner jigs and I wasn't aware there was a jig for the handles


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> @Rick - Speedy Gonzalez!
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y3H3AoL-yY


Great stuff . I couldn't watch it all as I'm off to work . Liking his pocket hole jig . Sure has a big shop !


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Wow loving the corner jigs and I wasn't aware there was a jig for the handles


Make your own. Not all two screw handles are spaced the same. All you need is a drill guide. Two pieces of ply attached to form a 90º, measure and drill the two guide holes and you now have a repeatable jig made out of scrap and a couple of minutes of your time..


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Great stuff . I couldn't watch it all as I'm off to work . Liking his pocket hole jig . Sure has a big shop !


Same as yours! Just a two stall garage, just organized.

Jay used to work out of a small gutted apartment in a complex where he did maintenance work. 

I, too, like the Kreg jig. However, I can't justify $300, and the size (storage issue) for what I'm doing lately. If I were going to build a lot of cabinets for myself, where I had to do a lot of pockets, then I might consider something like that. For limited production it isn't really worth it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out how to get the new hard copy of the LV catalogue into Rick's hands... >
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to get the new hard copy of the LV catalogue into Rick's hands... >
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Mine arrived last week, I've already mentally spent this month's allowance.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Same as yours! Just a two stall garage, just organized.
> 
> Jay used to work out of a small gutted apartment in a complex where he did maintenance work.
> 
> I, too, like the Kreg jig. However, I can't justify $300, and the size (storage issue) for what I'm doing lately. If I were going to build a lot of cabinets for myself, where I had to do a lot of pockets, then I might consider something like that. For limited production it isn't really worth it.


I watched his Skletchup video on the cabinet design. Even if you don't know how to use Sketchup, you can still watch how he designs his cabinets. There are a lot of ways to build cabinets. That is his way of dong it.

I feel sure Kreg is a sponsor. But I like my *pneumatic operated pocket hole jig* just the way it is. :grin: And it hangs on the wall out of the way. :surprise:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to get the new hard copy of the LV catalogue into Rick's hands... >
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Dan, *noooooooooooooo*!

If that happens there won't be anything left for the rest of us to buy.:surprise::surprise::surprise:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick, you could have built your set of cabinets on the table to fit under it and then slid it under the top. That is what I did.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick, you could have built your set of cabinets on the table to fit under it and then slid it under the top. That is what I did.
> Herb


That's actually a neat idea Herb 

Yesterday I was thinking that if I ever moved , my work bench is staying as it weighs a ton 
Your idea would have resolved that


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> I'm trying to figure out how to get the new hard copy of the LV catalogue into Rick's hands... >
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


I got mine a few weeks ago in the mail lol


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Wait...what? the full Woodworking Catalogue for 2015?! _ Not_ the Late Summer issue?
I was in there yesterday (picked mine up) and they told me the full catalogue was too heavy for a mass mailout...

...or they screen the client list for past customers who've taken out 2nd/3rd mortgages in the process of shopping at LV(?).

Lee Valley Tools - Online Catalog


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Wait...what? the full Woodworking Catalogue for 2015?! _ Not_ the Late Summer issue?
> I was in there yesterday (picked mine up) and they told me the full catalogue was too heavy for a mass mailout...
> 
> ...or they screen the client list for past customers who've taken out 2nd/3rd mortgages in the process of shopping at LV(?).
> ...


That's it, 468 pages. Mine already has Post-It's sticking out from the pages, the plan is to leave it out so my wife can get some ideas for Christmas >


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well...colour me miffed; apparently I'm not spending enough there.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I ordered the large router plane w/accessories and requested the catalog....got my plane and accessories, but NO catalog  That was my planned fall reading material and my Christmas wish list..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

If Rick gets the catalog there goes his insulation budget. POOF


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Shop guy said:


> If Rick gets the catalog there goes his insulation budget. POOF


Huh, what...there was a budget!? You mean there was actually monies dedicated to the project! Hmmmm!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Shop guy said:


> If Rick gets the catalog there goes his insulation budget. POOF


Yes my cart at LV is definitely growing . They just make it to easy


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> @Rick - more things to buy. >
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3osWhaGxvg


Well I'm really liking there drawer pull jig too , but nothing's in Canada . 
Not at LV or Amazon.ca


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've been out of the loop for 15 years +/- but prior to that I'd _never_ seen a cab. installer with a commercially made jig for pulls. They all made their own.
Sometimes on the spot.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I'm really liking there drawer pull jig too , but nothing's in Canada .
> Not at LV or Amazon.ca


Rick, 

This is a Rockler product. About $26 USD with shipping...maybe more to Canada. 

Just make your own.

Drawer Pull JIG IT® and Center Punch - Rockler Woodworking Tools


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> This is a Rockler product. About $26 USD with shipping...maybe more to Canada.
> 
> ...


I have plexi and a drill press so I probably could . Looks like 20 bucks well spent at this point though . Winters a coming :fie:


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I'm really liking there drawer pull jig too , but nothing's in Canada .
> Not at LV or Amazon.ca


LV has such a jig, you're not going to like the price though Hardware Drilling Jig - Lee Valley Tools Way better to make your own - buy drawer pulls in bulk, use the same jig for everything.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

tomp913 said:


> LV has such a jig, you're not going to like the price though Hardware Drilling Jig - Lee Valley Tools Way better to make your own - buy drawer pulls in bulk, use the same jig for everything.


have that jig...
paid for it's self after 1,000's of drawers/doors/etc...
the real deal was the goof proofing feature for the employee...

otherwise it's a bit much...


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## john60 (Aug 30, 2014)

The cabinetmaker I used had jigs for all repetive type work


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Only takes about 5 minutes to make your own jig for drawer pulls. That would equate to about $240 an hour. Save the money, Rick, buy insulation.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> LV has such a jig, you're not going to like the price though Hardware Drilling Jig - Lee Valley Tools Way better to make your own - buy drawer pulls in bulk, use the same jig for everything.


Yes that's a little much alright


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Wait...what? the full Woodworking Catalogue for 2015?! _ Not_ the Late Summer issue?
> I was in there yesterday (picked mine up) and they told me the full catalogue was too heavy for a mass mailout...
> 
> ...or they screen the client list for past customers who've taken out 2nd/3rd mortgages in the process of shopping at LV(?).
> ...


Look at all those cordless drills with everlasting batteries on the cover!Throw those chargers and expensive batteries away. LOL
Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Wait...what? the full Woodworking Catalogue for 2015?! _ Not_ the Late Summer issue?
> I was in there yesterday (picked mine up) and they told me the full catalogue was too heavy for a mass mailout...
> 
> ...or they screen the client list for past customers who've taken out 2nd/3rd mortgages in the process of shopping at LV(?).
> ...


Trying to pass out dry mouth, sweaty palms and nose bleeds amongst the membership are we???...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Fetish*



Stick486 said:


> Trying to pass out dry mouth, sweaty palms and nose bleeds amongst the membership are we???...


Cheaper than Viagra...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Cheaper than Viagra...


so that is what Viagra does to ya...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well...it's only cheaper if you don't actually, you know, _ buy_ something!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Well...it's only cheaper if you don't actually, you know, _ buy_ something!


yup...
been through the catalog...
doubt if 50K would be enough...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well, Hell; you can't take it with you....on second thought, same applies to the tools.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Well, Hell; you can't take it with you....on second thought, same applies to the tools.


In that case I'm not going anyplace... ever....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

your just gonna need a bigger box than most...




Stick486 said:


> In that case I'm not going anyplace... ever....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> your just gonna need a bigger box than most...


Conex, semi or freight car size????


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

stick486 said:


> conex, semi or freight car size????


duals!!!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> duals!!!!


you pay for the second plot and we're good to go...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

if ya can't take the mountain with ya, just go with the mountain..


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Think BIG, Stick...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Think BIG, Stick...


okay ..
so that's a start...


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> so that is what Viagra does to ya...


Puts you in a bathtub alongside someone else in another bathtub.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Shouldn't we be getting back into Rick's drawers? We completely hijacked his thread.
> Lord knows what Rick's gone and done while we weren't paying attention...


History repeats itself.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> History repeats itself.


I think there waiting for more progress lol . I did get two more drawers in , the wider ones that I made for the next bank . Going to dado slots in the third one before a assemble it for a divider to hold the plastic insert in place . 
Next bank to the right I'm going do two deeper drawers with 3/4" bottoms


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Did you think about putting small slides inside the drawer sides of a tall drawer, and making a small sliding box to go on top? If it is made half the opening length, it will allow getting anything out of the drawer except long things. They can come out by lifting the sliding box up. The sliding box works great for the small things you never seem to be able to find, pencils rulers, etc. Or chisels, gauges, etc.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> Did you think about putting small slides inside the drawer sides of a tall drawer, and making a small sliding box to go on top? If it is made half the opening length, it will allow getting anything out of the drawer except long things. They can come out by lifting the sliding box up. The sliding box works great for the small things you never seem to be able to find, pencils rulers, etc. Or chisels, gauges, etc.


Bob I seen that implemented the other day and thought it was the coolest idea I've ever seen . 
I was thinking it wouldn't work to well with the ones I've made , but maybe on the deeper ones I'm building next I should do that to the top one just to try. It sure is an neat way of getting the most out of a drawer .


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

It can be as simple as two supports and a piece of plywood. I have a metal vise that isn't very big. Mostly flat with two jaws and a handle. I added two supports on the bottom drawer of the drill press cabinet. The vise just sits there not bothering anybody. If needed, I can simply lift the shelf out to get down below.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> It can be as simple as two supports and a piece of plywood. I have a metal vise that isn't very big. Mostly flat with two jaws and a handle. I added two supports on the bottom drawer of the drill press cabinet. The vise just sits there not bothering anybody. If needed, I can simply lift the shelf out to get down below.


Never thought of that, and it would be easy to implement


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I did see a version on the net where they cut the top half of the back off , that way full extentions could be used inside the upper inside drawer . It was pretty much two full layers but not something I really need . But I'm liking the idea of a smaller version for a pencil drawer and other small stuff


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Something like this.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

nicely thought out and carried through...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Something like this.


Great use of space Tom


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I like the side to side arrangement, rather than front to back.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Except on a long skinny drawer.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes! My bad.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> Except on a long skinny drawer.


That was my first thought


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well more toys on the way from LV 


Item	Description	Status	Qty	Price	Total
Price 
88N9050	Tilt Box II Digital Inclinometer	Reserved	1	46.50	46.50 
86N4090	Set (7) Set-Up Bars, Kreg	Reserved	1	56.50	56.50 
99W7551	Digital Tool-Setting Gauge


Bought another sheet of 3/4 BB and some more drawer slides , so tommorow hopefully I have a productive day.
Wondering if I should buy a sheet of 1\2" BB for drawer fronts ?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Times flying...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Times flying...




..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

you should have posted a warning with that last one Stick....

only view after having been up for no less than 5 hours!!

DANG!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> you should have posted a warning with that last one Stick....
> 
> only view after having been up for no less than 5 hours!!
> 
> DANG!


*heh... WHAT???????????*
I've been up for longer than 5 hours...


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## oldyam (Aug 2, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> you should have posted a warning with that last one Stick....
> 
> only view after having been up for no less than 5 hours!!
> 
> DANG!


Thanks, I thought that was just my eyes !! :grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

oldyam said:


> Thanks, I thought that was just my eyes !! :grin:


you don't belt back a couple of pots of coffee before signing on???...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Times flying...


Sure is . Where's Mike when you need him :|


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Sure is . Where's Mike when you need him :|


Sleepin' :grin::grin::grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Sleepin' :grin::grin::grin:


Sorry , different Mike lol

Well it's off to the garage and hopefully make some headway


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Mike would have had that insulation done months if not years ago. He would probably have given you what for for doing it first. LOL
He always says "make it right"


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Now see, that's what I/We(?) don't get. I don't personally mind if Rick _never_ insulates his shop; but having said that, I know he's going to be complaining about his working conditions all Winter.
All the new work he's done is great! But it's all gotta be moved _out_ to do the wiring/ insulation/ V.b./ drywall.
That ain't gonna happen, and less likely with every new sheet of plywood that comes in the door.
It's like watching a horror movie...everyone in the audience is yelling "Don't open that door!!" but you know the person on screen is going to do it anyway.
Rick;_ just tell us you don't want to insulate, and to mind our own business_....


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Now see, that's what I/We(?) don't get. I don't personally mind if Rick _never_ insulates his shop; but having said that, I know he's going to be complaining about his working conditions all Winter.
> All the new work he's done is great! But it's all gotta be moved _out_ to do the wiring/ insulation/ V.b./ drywall.
> That ain't gonna happen, and less likely with every new sheet of plywood that comes in the door.
> It's like watching a horror movie...everyone in the audience is yelling "Don't open that door!!" but you know the person on screen is going to do it anyway.
> Rick;_ just tell us you don't want to insulate, and to mind our own business_....


:lol: seriously I want it insulated . But I may be dreaming


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"seriously I want it insulated . But I may be dreaming"

Nope; procrastinating. Have you done the _plan_ for the workshop yet?
Nothing will happen without a plan (I'm talking blueprint here, not the 'This is what I'm gonna do today' type of plan).
Seriously go out there and measure out the shop area, then figure out what you want to do in it. You don't need Sketch Up.
A pencil and a quad pad is all you need. Well, a straightedge is also nice...

Shop Layout Guide - Issue No. 288


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Another one...
Grizzly Industrial® Workshop Planner


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "seriously I want it insulated . But I may be dreaming"
> 
> Nope; procrastinating. Have you done the _plan_ for the workshop yet?
> Nothing will happen without a plan (I'm talking blueprint here, not the 'This is what I'm gonna do today' type of plan).
> ...


I like that shop planner, Dan, I knew about the Gizzly, but this one is new to me.

Rick, I hate fiber glass insulation,I break out all over in the itches. If it were me I would hire a guy to come in and do it. Find an insulator that works for a company and wants some side job. They work fast and will have that knocked out in a few hours. All you might have to do is help him move some stuff from one side to the other and back again .; Move as much stuff up against the garage door side as possible and give him an area to start. you can get it done in a weekend easy. 
Another thing you might consider if you want to do it all yourself, is the rigid foil back foam insulation. But just getting the insulation in will mean you can work in there ,and do the wall board,I would use OSB then you can hang tool and cabinets anywhere without backing. 
The electrical can go surface mounted ,I did mine in plastic conduit, and it went super fast,and pulling wires was a breeze. that way you can put 220 outlets every 4 feet around the walls and lots of 120v. outlets. and I even ran ceiling circuits for the lights and put duplex outlets to plug in the fixtures. and do ceiling drops for some of the machines.
I just had to get that out of my system, now I feel better.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well Herb exterior wiring is very tempting and it would really speed the process up but I think I'm going to go conventional . Although I guess I could leave all the 120 circuits in wall and conduit the 220 , that way if the machinery changes I can make a quick change ? 
Tough call 

Btw I'm using an insulation called Roxul . Very little itch and it comes off easily in the shower . No need to take a cold shower afterwards either .

Dan I have a plan in my head . It's been there for a while . I've revised it a few times but it's there . Well sort of . Depends on how much beer I've consumed and how bad the hangover is :|

And quoting MT " we don't need no stinking plans "


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" we don't need no stinking plans "

Famous last words.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Rick, I'm with Dan I really couldn't care less if you insulate or not. But is to much fun to rib you about it not too. Seriously until you have a plan you only have a want. By insulating your shop you will get a lot more enjoyment out of it. I agree with Herb find some guy to do it for you. You will be money saved and dollars ahead if you do. After hour guys usually work very reasonably to cheap. I applaud what you have done recently but if you think I am about to quit teasing you well you would be......WRONG!


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Dan, I used to tell my employees if you don't have a plan you're working NWP ( no workable plan)and you will work a lot but you won't accomplish much. Personally I cannot imagine being NWP even if I change it often.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well there's always next year . I can work some of the winter in the garage , like October. Then it's wait till March , so it's not that terrible really


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I built the last drawer in the middle bank . Decided to dado a 3/8" slot for the bottom one where the dremels go so I can keep that plastic insert from moving 


I've encountered a problem already as the tuck tape dispenser exceeds the height of the tape drawer . Not an issue as long as I don't put rails in . I am going to the shop to build two deeper drawers so maybe the tape will get bucked over to one of those


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

>Looking good. Fix that duck tape problem STAT!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick, you know I needle you, but I also recognize that you're doing very nice cabinet work; well done!


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Rick, you know I needle you, but I also recognize that you're doing very nice cabinet work; well done!


Totally agree coming along nicely.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I cut the pieces out last evening minus the bottoms . Just finished dadoing the joints etc and went a little looser this time . Sure made for a better experience assembly wise .


Seeing as these are deeper I'm going to build a smaller drawer to fit inside the top one after lunch with 10" extensions to hold pencils and utility knives , what have you 


Sure getting a lot of tear out on the table side of the blade. I think I need to get the blade sharpened or one with more teeth . This is not from the dado blade but from the regular blade I used to cut before dadoing . I put it at the bottom where it was out of site .
Never noticed an issue before when cutting for some reason


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

A little Polyfilla and Bob's your Uncle!


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

No one will ever now about the tearout...except the 10,000 folks watching this thread! >>>


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

G*d is punishing you for running the grain vertically instead of laterally, Rick, ie in the direction of the long bottom dados.
Bill says it's karma...who am I to argue?
Next time score the grain with a sharp razor knife before you make the cut. It'll hopefully eliminate that problem. A zero clearance throat can't hurt either.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> G*d is punishing you for running the grain vertically instead of laterally, Rick, ie in the direction of the long bottom dados.
> Bill says it's karma...who am I to argue?
> Next time score the grain with a sharp razor knife before you make the cut. It'll hopefully eliminate that problem. A zero clearance throat can't hurt either.


For whatever reason it's not happening now . I think it happens when I try and get a full sheet threw and its rubs as I'm struggling to keep it against the fence


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I built and installed the next 2 which are deeper . Now I was going to put a small shallow drawer in with 10" extentions that I already purchased . 
I thought I could slide the tray in to access anything that's underneath it . 
This top shallow pencil tray drawer is going to have things I need often like pencils and markers , utility knife and side cutters .
But looking at it now I'm almost thinking I should cut out a 2" deep slot in the front top of that top deep drawer and have my tray/ pen drawer pull out of it instead . 
Kind of a drawer within a drawer . The same drawer would have two drawer pulls . This was the tray won't interfere with anything height wise as you will pull it out into of sliding it towards the back .
I'm almost thinking I should have gone with another set of long slides and had the whole upper level retract back . This way I could have had a ton of Nick nacs on top , but then you loose the depth of the drawer defeating the purpose of having a deep drawer 



This is the small tray I was building (it's upside down) . Haven't cut out a bottom for it yet as I'm having doubts on what to do . 
May just throw it in the garbage and build a similar one (1" wider ) to compensate for not having extentions and just put a wood piece inside for it to sit on


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" I think it happens when I try and *get a full sheet threw* and its rubs as I'm struggling to keep it against the fence"

Wait...what?!
That's done on the _4' dimension_ in your pic. You're not suggesting that you're trying to muscle a whole 4x8 through the TS, crosscutting the 4' width?!! 
You have a tracksaw...
Even if it were the 5x5 BB you'd still _rip_ to size first (normally...unless of course you need the 4' x over 4' format)

You're a braver guy than me, Rick. No way would I attempt to crosscut a 4X8 first on the TS, even _with_ help.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I use a zero clearance insert in my TS, 42 or 60 tooth blade and masking tape on the table side of the ply when cutting it on my TS. Get no tearout with or across the grain.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> I use a zero clearance insert in my TS, 42 or 60 tooth blade and masking tape on the table side of the ply when cutting it on my TS. Get no tearout with or across the grain.


tape adds glue medium to the blade...
cleaning the blade works...
still get a lot of tear out... change the blade to a sharp cross cut blade...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well after dadoing a slot for this pen tray I must have used a different piece of 3/8" BB because they wouldn't go in without a lot of force. Thank god for bessey clamps as I got them in eventually . Probably should have put them in when it was out but forgot . 
Then I came to the realization that there is no easy way to remove this uppe tray as there's very little access to those little arms on the extentions to move to disconnect them . 
Lesson learned as next time I'll just put a small piece of wood under this pen tray it to support it , then it can be removed when I need to get underneith it 



Like I say this idea was a brain fart , lesson learned . Guess I had to experiment


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah, but it looks good and it is yours, so... :smile:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I wish I knew about this 7 drawers ago . It's a kind of centering pilot hole maker . It goes in the extentions hole and keeps it centered as you drill a pilot hole for the screw , and this has been an issue for me 


As per your guys suggestions I'm keeping the vice and grinder off the bench . On the right they retract out of the way on a platform with extentions 






Trying to figure out how to stock the drawers . Could spend days building dividers etc , but tell you truth I think it's time to get some electrical in and start insulating before its to late . 
I figure I'll build the drawer fronts and stiles once I have a heated garage , as this is just to time consuming and winters just around the corner .
Btw thanks for the ideas guys


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Looks good. You can spend a lot of time making your drawers or you can spend a lot of time using the stuff in your drawers! :surprise:

Fish or cut bait? It's your choice. :grin:

Oh, that is called a vix bit.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Looks good. You can spend a lot of time making your drawers or you can spend a lot of time using the stuff in your drawers! :surprise:
> 
> Fish or cut bait? It's your choice. :grin:
> 
> Oh, that is called a vix bit.


Well one thing Mike , it no longer looks like a bomb went off lol , so I gotta be winning


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

The bench looks really good, Rick. But the unisulated walls, well not so good.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Shop guy said:


> The bench looks really good, Rick. But the unisulated walls, well not so good.


I may take a few days off this week to get started on it , hard to say


----------

