# Glass etching



## okie GW (Jan 6, 2016)

Does anyone use their CNC for etching glass with diamond bits? If so what speed what bits what depth? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thinking about investing in a small CNC foe engraving on small boxes and if possible etching logos in glass.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Harold that is a good question. I always thought that glass etching was with Flouric acid. But I know very little about that.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

keep in mind that glass is nick sensitive and once the glass surface is scratched it is subject to breaking....


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

maybe here can give some info:
Diamond Drag Engraving Bit for CNC Machines - Use Your CNC Machine to Engrave Metal, Plastic, Glass, and Granite - WidgetWorks Unlimited


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I think the commercial method for etching is sandblasting. You lay Mac-tac on the glass where you don't want it etched. No chemicals that way.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

You can buy a laser unit for some CNC systems,


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Harold that is a good question. I always thought that glass etching was with Flouric acid. But I know very little about that.
> 
> Herb


Hydroflouric acid is nasty stuff that it is best to stay away from *COMPLETELY!*. If you get it on your skin, any skin, it will eat right through to the bone marrow.

With that, said, there are many ways to etch glass; acids, blasting, and mechanical etching. Most hobby type shops sell kits to acid etch, I have used templates or even simple taped up areas and a hand held spot blaster. Texture will depend on the medium used; fineness of sand, Black Beauty, etc.

I can't speak for the mechanical means. However, bits are obviously available and capable of performing this operation, as linked by UglySign. The only thing is, that, this is a "drag bit". it might be good for line etching but not for etching a field. I'm sure that there is a learning curve and I'm not quite sure how well tempered glass would take to a mechanical means without fracturing.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

I'm sorry for posting that drag knife thing.
I am bent on glue-chipped glass and thats what I always think of.
Etching is nice but I find that glue-chipped glass is more appealing.
Once my machine gets here i'm going to try it out.

As for the drag knife on glass, you could make some nifty
fills if needed and come along with the etching creams or
mask it for mini-blasting. Lots of possibilities but I may have
gone the wrong direction to the topic.

Anyways... either do hand masking or have it cut and you
could also use a mini sand blaster. Diamond Drag will ruin masking I believe.
Here's a cheapie using Aluminum Oxide abrasive.
Badger Mini Sandblasting Kit - BLICK art materials

+1 on the Hydroflouric Acid >


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Personally I think it would take a whole lot of glass etching with a CNC before it would be worthwhile. Years back a bought a glass etching kit, to etch some glassware for my then dau-in-law. Not sure what the etch was, it was in a small glass bottle. Applied the patterns, put on the etch with a small brush, waited a few minutes, rinsed it off with water. Came out beautiful. You could get ready made patterns, or material to make your own custom designs. I did 8 glasses in probably 5-10 minutes. I could buy a whole lot of etching kits for even the cost of a hobby CNC.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

This turned into a very good thread, very informative, thanks for all the input. Learned something new today.
Herb


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## comp56 (Mar 30, 2017)

I've done a lot of glass etching with this stuff,
here is a shelf I made that I etched the mirror....easy peasy brush on wait 10 minutes wash off.....


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## okie GW (Jan 6, 2016)

Maybe I am going the wrong direction with CNC etching. I have had a local trophy shop etch logos into glass. Recently the business changed hands and this has become too costly. Maybe I should be asking what is the best way to make a mask.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

okie GW said:


> Maybe I am going the wrong direction with CNC etching. I have had a local trophy shop etch logos into glass.
> Recently the business changed hands and this has become too costly. Maybe I should be asking what is the
> best way to make a mask.


Add a vinyl plotter to your arsenal for a mask. Im sure there
are smaller units out there you could pick up, load in the
vinyl mask, cut it, weed it out and start etching/blasting etc.
Xacto blades can do so much by hand and could get discouraging. 
Vinyl plotters can only go so small before losing detail and alot of
stuff is small. Especially for trophies.

Are there other methods for super small graphics? Probably Laser?

Glastar has a neat mini sandblast system
that I've been interested in for years.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

comp56 said:


> I've done a lot of glass etching with this stuff,
> here is a shelf I made that I etched the mirror....easy peasy brush on wait 10 minutes wash off.....


Nice work. 

That's the stuff I was trying to think of. Should still have most of a bottle around somewhere, but more likely it's lost forever. Can get some pretty fine detail with that stuff too, with a fine tip brush. If I ever get the urge to make some more custom glasses, that's the stuff I'll use.


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## mezalick (Apr 27, 2017)

UglySign said:


> I'm sorry for posting that drag knife thing.
> I am bent on glue-chipped glass and thats what I always think of.
> Etching is nice but I find that glue-chipped glass is more appealing.
> Once my machine gets here i'm going to try it out.


I make glue chipped glass by using rabbit hide glue on the glass....Old time recipe...

Michael


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## comp56 (Mar 30, 2017)

UglySign said:


> Add a vinyl plotter to your arsenal for a mask. Im sure there
> are smaller units out there you could pick up, load in the
> vinyl mask, cut it, weed it out and start etching/blasting etc.
> Xacto blades can do so much by hand and could get discouraging.
> ...


yes that is a good idea I happen to have a large one for other reasons but comes in handy for this purpose.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

I have used a spring loaded diamond drag bit for doing mirrors, glass, wine bottles, acrylic and metals. They work great, easy setup and are quiet (as you don't need to have the spindle running to use). You can get amazing detail, then apply some Rub & Buff coloring and really bring out the detail.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

A quite informative thread. I saved it in my "tips and tricks" folder. Thanks to all.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Hand cut Contact vinyl, sandblasted with selective glue chipping. 
Only by sandblasting can the shading be done.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

If you do get a spring loaded diamond drag bit you will want a good one, they are not all created equal. A good one is expensive but a cheap one could come with a lot of headaches. Some companies make cheaper models and there again you want the best one they make.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

mezalick said:


> I make glue chipped glass by using rabbit hide glue on the glass....Old time recipe...
> 
> Michael


oK Michael.... spill the beans... err lets see.

Nothing like a glue chip and some smaltz on a sign.

What I'd like to know is how they can get a nice split within the glue chipped areas.
Theres like a nice inline to say that goes with the flow and chips out from there.










Check out Letterhead Sign Supply
and https://letterheadsignsupply.com/how-to-glue-chip-glass-instructions

I know one thing for sure... my eyes are starting the fuzzies up close.
If I have to get any glasses... they'll be like George :nerd: Burns and I'm gonna glue chip em.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Very pleased I never read those instructions!


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

And the close up.


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## mezalick (Apr 27, 2017)

UglySign said:


> oK Michael.... spill the beans... err lets see.
> 
> Nothing like a glue chip and some smaltz on a sign.
> 
> ...


You can control the direction of the chips by how you apply the hot glue...The link you included from LetterHeads is a great place to learn.

Michael


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

mezalick said:


> You can control the direction of the chips by how you apply the hot glue...The link you included from LetterHeads is a great place to learn.
> 
> Michael


I would be interested in any examples you did that demonstrate this.
Myself, I always used a brush.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Wasn't the late Rick Glawson the guru of the glue chip?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

If you want to go with sand blasting, look into Raysist Photo Mask. It's designed to contact expose which turns the part you want to keep into a sand blast resistant surface. It has a peel and stick backing, so it applies to the glass easily and peels off relatively easily after the sand blasting. https://www.rayzist.com/

Charley


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## mezalick (Apr 27, 2017)

CharleyL said:


> If you want to go with sand blasting, look into Raysist Photo Mask.
> 
> Charley


For sandblasting I use 3M Buttercut Sandblast Stencil

~M


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

CharleyL said:


> If you want to go with sand blasting, look into Raysist Photo Mask. It's designed to contact expose which turns the part you want to keep into a sand blast resistant surface. It has a peel and stick backing, so it applies to the glass easily and peels off relatively easily after the sand blasting. https://www.rayzist.com/
> 
> Charley


Nice one @CharleyL 
Something to look into and eyeballing that 2034VXA

This topic is getting me into trouble >


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

They make precision dental sand blasters that are ideal for doing glassware, etc. A Google Search brings up a lot of them. Most are small enclosures for lab work and run about $400, but there are also some of these blasters that come without the cabinets. The Raysist sheets are contact exposed with UV light and then washed off, leaving the image that you want. Stick it to a piece of glassware, shield the rest of it from the abrasive, and blast away. The micro fine sand leaves a nice frosted effect.

I almost got into custom carving and engraving 20+ years ago. I bought the modified dentist drill air powered carver (turns 400,000 rpm and uses 1/16" shank bits). I made a few carved/engraved wooden projects with it, but I never bought the micro fine sand blaster unit I had been giving serious thought to engraving VIN numbers in the bottom corners of car windows and such to differ theft. I also had planned on engraving decorative displays such as can now be seen in divider panels of restaurants, etc. where the image is just frosted into the glass. This was a fresh new field for this at the time.

There is a good demand for this, even now, but I got into photo retouching using Adobe Photoshop and other photo enhancing software instead. Don't believe anything that you see in photos, because I can make it in the photo when it never existed that way in real life. None of the women models in advertising photos are as perfect as they look, because I was one of the ones who removed their moles, scars, and wrinkles to make them look younger and perfect.

I had a woman of about 50 bring me a portrait photo of herself, asking if I could make her look much younger. After a bit of discussion about how much younger, she said "do your best". I managed to take about 25 years off of her (a fine looking woman at either age). She came back a week later and when I showed he what I had done, she said "that's perfect. I want two copies, one for me and one to send to my high school reunion, and I'm not going. Let them eat their hearts out". We both had a good laugh over it, and I'm certain that it caused quite a stir at the class reunion.

Charley


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I've worked with Rayzist. Great for small repeated items.
Or learn to cut by hand. I used beige Contact© paper on the attached.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

mezalick said:


> For sandblasting I use 3M Buttercut Sandblast Stencil
> 
> ~M


What do you sand blast with this product? How do you cut the image into the stencil?

I've only experimented with the Raysist product, but found it very easy to use since it is much like photo contact printing or like would be used to create printed circuit boards.

Wow, Ralph. I'm impressed.

Charley


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I owe a big debt to Peter David of Seattle who taught me the basics in 1982. Glue chipping, pounce pattern work etc.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

*Movable mylar stencil*

Or this on tempered glass.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Ralph you've been holding back on us. You should have been posting this years ago.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Quote:
I had a woman of about 50 bring me a portrait photo of herself, asking if I could make her look much younger. After a bit of discussion about how much younger, she said "do your best". I managed to take about 25 years off of her (a fine looking woman at either age). She came back a week later and when I showed he what I had done, she said "that's perfect. I want two copies, one for me and one to send to my high school reunion, and I'm not going. Let them eat their hearts out". We both had a good laugh over it, and I'm certain that it caused quite a stir at the class reunion.



That is funny, Charley.
Herb


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

*Onsite work. Confidence is key.*

I redid the doors at least 3 times. Pounce pattern saves the day.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

*More on-site. More confidence.*

One day cutting, next day blast and clean up.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

*Corner detail*

Sideways uploading problems.
Low pressure is the key to the shading.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

All I can say is *WOW!!!* , and you hand cut the stencils? I could never hand cut them, even it was just following he lines with a knife. I like the photo exposing method better because it doesn't require hand cutting.

Charley


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Nice work Ralph.... that sorta reminds me of that guy Sam Alfano
who does metal carving on knives and the like.
Real wicked stuff.










Yea, Im changing the scene here. Goto igraver.com
There's p--p load of goodies, tips & tricks

I dont see why this couldnt be applied to cnc.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

CharleyL said:


> All I can say is *WOW!!!* , and you hand cut the stencils? I could never hand cut them, even it was just following he lines with a knife. I like the photo exposing method better because it doesn't require hand cutting.
> 
> Charley


Have you tried hand cutting?
In late '80s I gave a number of one day hands on seminars on glass etching. At one of them, an elderly gentleman with obvious hand tremor attended. He had trouble drawing. However, the moment he put his provided Xacto knife into his project, he discovered that the tip didn't move (held by the Contac paper). He was delighted as the knife behaves entirely different than a pencil or a pen. He completed his project with ease and confidence.

The 3 seminar projects were a glass coffee cup and 5x7 pieces of clear glass and one of mirror. Tracing paper, carbon paper and many design books were provided.

Note: better referred as masking or resist. "Stencil" implies that it is one piece and the design of the holes make up the design. I have used the same mylar stencil repeatably, with the blasting it tends to get thinner. The previous peacock project I posted earlier took 13 stencils - all the same slalom shape that the feathers have. As they wore out, I made another identical stencil. 

With the Rayzist method what is your size restriction? Can you post a picture of your setup to create them?


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