# Help! Problems painting my wood sign.



## Papaoso42 (Apr 21, 2011)

Hello everyone! Greetings from Tennessee. I am new to this forum and I have a very specific question with great hope that someone can possibly answer it. I am carving wood signs using a CNC router. When I finish carving I paint the letters and or artwork with a "Black" acrylic paint. When the paint dries I use a sander to sand off the excess. Normally all is well. Just recently I started having a problem with the edge of the letters. The paint seems to be bleeding and no matter how much I sand I can't get rid of it. Has anyone ever experienced this before and if so what to do?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day Mark

Welcome to the router forum. 

Thank you for joining us

The problem may be due to the grain of the stock you are using or using thinned paid.

Sorry, can't be more help than that.

Others may be able to assist.


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Mark,
You must seal your sign with a couple of coats of something, I use acrylic varnish, don't worry if it builds up in the letters, once dry you can paint your letters, I would then either thickness the sign or belt sand it then paint with several coats of acrylic and a finish of Yacht varnish for the best effect.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

*Hey Mark, 
I pretty much had the same problem with my first (and only, so far) sign as well. And what I've learned from here is you need to prep the board (surface sanding) before you even start the project. I wasn't having so much of a "bleeding" effect, but I was having to sand so much to get in the grain of the wood, I was sanding off my shallow graphics (not lettering). So I then sanded the crap out of the board and my lettering was fine, but I had to redo the graphics. This time when I repainted them, it only took a little sanding to clean off the excess. I would really like to do another sign soon.
Not sure, but that may be your problem as well.*


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I agree with Derek - seal the wood first. Some care must be taken in the choice of sealer, however, since the sealer needs to be compatible with the paint being applied over it. 

My favorite sealer is _de-waxed_ shellac, mixed from flakes with denatured alcohol. It's very fast drying, and compatible with almost all paints and finishes.


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Ralph, surely shellac would not stand up to external conditions, although I agree that it seals quicker than most, as in my comments on Sanding Sealer.


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## Metalhead781 (Jul 27, 2010)

Since you're using acrylic paint, i would suggest a satin acrylic urethane such as minwax or bullseye. Apply it first, then paint and finally sand. It should seal up the edges of the end grain etc before you paint. Personally i use duck tape brand vinyl shelf paper as a masking before it goes into the cnc. On porous woods i'll use spray shellac because my paint is oil based. Then the paint is applied before removing the masking and a little sanding is done.

Regards,
Randy


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

derek willis said:


> Ralph, surely shellac would not stand up to external conditions, although I agree that it seals quicker than most, as in my comments on Sanding Sealer.


Right. I would _not_ recommend shellac as a finish coat for outdoor signs or furniture, even though it is highly resistant to water. A final top coat of good exterior varnish (yacht/spar), after painting/decorating, is probably the best bet. The advantage of _de-waxed_ shellac as an initial sealer is that it's compatible with almost all other finishes. As such, many finishing gurus use it as an isolating layer between complex finishing schedules that include otherwise incompatible materials. (Note that I am _not_ a finishing guru, though.)


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

In agreement wholly, using de-waxed is the way to go.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Assuming you're painting all the carved areas I'll share a little secret I learned in 7th grade shop class (back when they offered shop in middle school). It only works if you're signs aren't wider than your router or can be made in "bands", each narrower than your router's capacity and then edge-joined, but it sure works well when that's the case. 

I was making signs of various lengths and from 6" to 12" wide and he had me route out the letters, spray (in my case polyurethane) paint over the area and then run it through the plane to remove the paint from the surface. If there's still some bleeding after the first pass through the planer, run it through again. A light sanding if desired and then spray it with a clear polyurethane. It made for very crisp lettered signs and required *minimal* labor... and was kind of fun, as I remember.

Good memories.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

*So, it looks like all you sign makers clear coat (seal) your wood before painting the letters, then paint the letters, sand and re-clear coat? Just want to get it right! On my first, and only, so far sign, I routed the letters, painted then used polyurethane to coat it all. And I really didn't have a bleeding problem, but because I didn't sand the face of the sign first, and I did some light graphics on the side of my routed letters, using a Dremel with a 1/16th ball bit, I sanded off my light graphics by the time I sanded the paint off. But after I redid the graphics with my 1/16th bit on the Dremel, and re-painted, it didn't take much sanding to get the paint off the next time. *


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## Papaoso42 (Apr 21, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your input. I, (after pulling out a bunch of hair discovered that it was the paint I was using. It was an acrylic paint with a gloss additive and for some reason it made bled into the carved areas. Switched back to "flat black" paint and worked great! I have read all your responses and they are all great ideas. I am sure I will be using many of them. I really like the shelving paper idea a lot. Thank you again everyone!


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

I use stencil ink and have no problems it drys faster and will not bleed..


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

*sign*

I use 1 coat of water based varnish available at craft stores. For fast drying I use a hairdryer. Now I can paint in the letters.
Gary


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

*signs.*



seawolf21 said:


> I use 1 coat of water based varnish available at craft stores. For fast drying I use a hairdryer. Now I can paint in the letters.
> Gary


Look back a long way, this is what I suggested right in the beginning.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

If you consider that wood is very much like a bundle of straws it will help you understand the "why" of sealing it. Paint or stain covers the sides of the straws but really sucks into the ends of the straws. Wood works the same way, proof of this is easy to see by staining a piece of 2x4"... the ends get much darker. When you rout a sign you are exposing the ends of the wood fibers which wick up your finish causing the spreading effect. Sealing prevents the wicking action.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

LMan said:


> I use stencil ink and have no problems it drys faster and will not bleed..


Lou, just yesterday I read somewhere's on another site, about using stencil ink for sign making. I think on my next one, I'm going to combine that idea along with ---- can't remember if it was Mike or Bob on here --- but they suggested rubbing the board with a potatoe before spraying the letters. So my next sign (who knows when) I'm going to rubbed a potatoe on the wood, and then use stencil ink and see what happens. Then if that still don't work, then try sealing the wood first.


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## death watch beatle (May 20, 2011)

Papaoso42 said:


> Hello everyone! Greetings from Tennessee. I am new to this forum and I have a very specific question with great hope that someone can possibly answer it. I am carving wood signs using a CNC router. When I finish carving I paint the letters and or artwork with a "Black" acrylic paint. When the paint dries I use a sander to sand off the excess. Normally all is well. Just recently I started having a problem with the edge of the letters. The paint seems to be bleeding and no matter how much I sand I can't get rid of it. Has anyone ever experienced this before and if so what to do?


Have you tried,(as many cabinet makers do),sealing the entire piece of timber with a clear varnish or sanding sealer before applying the black acrilic finish to the lettering? The type of sealer is dependent on both the environment the sign will be placed in,(internal or external), together with the compatibility of the acrilic finishes you us on top of it. Paul UK. I too am new to this site!


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

N'awlins77 said:


> Lou, just yesterday I read somewhere's on another site, about using stencil ink for sign making. I think on my next one, I'm going to combine that idea along with ---- can't remember if it was Mike or Bob on here --- but they suggested rubbing the board with a potatoe before spraying the letters. So my next sign (who knows when) I'm going to rubbed a potatoe on the wood, and then use stencil ink and see what happens. Then if that still don't work, then try sealing the wood first.


Lee, the stencil Ink I use is made by Marsh 30395 Spray on Stencil Ink Black it also available in Blue,white,red,yellow,orange & green you can also buy it by the gallon. It is weather proof drys quick you can spray or brush on I use the spray cans.It will work What ever you choose to seal the sign and will not bleed or spider like paint will. I order my Ink from Amazon.com since no one local carries it..


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

*Thanks Lou. I've seen it on Graingers website. I'm going to see if they stock it here locally. *


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Derek and/or Gary, how long, even with hair dryer, do you have to wait when using the water based varnish? And does it come in a spray can, or you have to brush it on? 

However, I think I'm going to try the stencil ink or the stencil ink and potato rub first, just seems a little faster, not having to wait on the sealer to dry. After doing a good bit of research on it, looks like the planer would be the fastest solution. Just can't see spending the money and space, for something I will probably only use for signs. For what I'd spend on a planer, I can get both of my next wishlist items. The Gripper push block and the box joint router table jig and bits.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

N'awlins77 said:


> Derek and/or Gary, how long, even with hair dryer, do you have to wait when using the water based varnish? And does it come in a spray can, or you have to brush it on?
> 
> However, I think I'm going to try the stencil ink or the stencil ink and potato rub first, just seems a little faster, not having to wait on the sealer to dry. After doing a good bit of research on it, looks like the planer would be the fastest solution. Just can't see spending the money and space, for something I will probably only use for signs. For what I'd spend on a planer, I can get both of my next wishlist items. The Gripper push block and the box joint router table jig and bits.


Hi Lee, one of the members built a fixture that looks like it would work well for you. You could modify it to just do signs. I think it is post #6 here:
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/23960-planing-jig-sled.html#post207073


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

*Thanks John, that might be my ticket if the stencil paint and potato don't work. Haven't had a chance to try it yet. In the middle of a bathroom redo. But as soon as I get a chance I'm going to try the stencil paint, then stencil and potato. If that don't work, that jig just might do!*


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## donkc (Apr 26, 2013)

*Overspray*

I paint with Marsh Ink drys faster and easier to work with. Before I carve I spray a couple of coats of clear on the sign to keep the black ink whick is very thin from soaking into the pores of the wood. Works great. I use a DeWalt planer to remove the overspray and also removes any rough edges on the carving. Any question call me Don 4807103606 or [email protected].
Thanks
Don


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