# Brads vs Forstner



## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

If I want to drill lets say a 3/4” hole on a piece of plywood which one is better to use, a Brad Point bit or a Forstner bit?

Basically I don’t know the difference between them, they both do the same job?

Thank you


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Hi Nicolas. I'm guessing that, because of the size (3/4") a brad point bit is what we'd call a spade bit over here. A flat bladed bit with a long pointed tine? If so, you could use it but it won't give you the kind of clean edged, flat bottomed hole you get with a Forstner or sawtooth bit. Are you drilling completely through the ply? If so, you might want to consider a regular hole saw and drill partly through from each side to avoid tearout. I don't like using my Forstners on ply because of the glue used in ply construction which can dull the bits.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI nzgeordie

In the states a brad point bit is not the same as a spade bit  not the same animal ,,,I will say they are hard to find in the big sizes, then the Forstner bit must take over the job...the brad point bits put in a flat bottom hole for the smaller holes the norm..

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10627&filter=brad point


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nzgeordie said:


> Hi Nicolas. I'm guessing that, because of the size (3/4") a brad point bit is what we'd call a spade bit over here. A flat bladed bit with a long pointed tine? If so, you could use it but it won't give you the kind of clean edged, flat bottomed hole you get with a Forstner or sawtooth bit. Are you drilling completely through the ply? If so, you might want to consider a regular hole saw and drill partly through from each side to avoid tearout. I don't like using my Forstners on ply because of the glue used in ply construction which can dull the bits.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Bobj3 I try to understand if there is a difference between the two. They both make flat bottom holes and they both have a sharp point to start a hole however only the Forstner comes in large sizes.

So if you want to drill a hole and the size is available in both Brad and Forstner which one would you pick? Does it depend on the wood type or it is just a matter or preference?

Thank you


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Nicolas,
Maybe a picture will help explain the difference between a forstner and a brad point bit. They are the same only in the respect that they are both drill bits and that's where the similarity ends. The brad point is on the left and the forstner is on the right. As you can see they are nothing alike.
If I wanted to drill a 3/4" hole and I had a forstner and a brad point 3/4" bit, it would depend on the type of hole I wanted. If a through hole I would use the 3/4" brad point. But, if I wanted to drill a 3/4" flat bottomed hole that doesn't go all the way through, I would use the forstner.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI kolias

To me it's how deep I must go, the Forstner bit is not made to go to deep..you can cook a Forstner bit in a heart beat if you push it to deep and it gets hot..unlike the brad point bits, they are made to drill just like a normal drill bit..many like to use them to put in pockets holes on aprons..if you look under some furinture you will see them in place..holding the tops down or others parts..(corner brackets/brace the norm)
They are almost self starting you could say..because of the brad point...that's why they work well on angles unlike the normal drill bit or Forstner bit.

I will say the brad points like to break off easy so you must use them with care 
They also make 3 kinds of brad point drill bits...the one George posted is called flat bottom type..


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kolias said:


> Bobj3 I try to understand if there is a difference between the two. They both make flat bottom holes and they both have a sharp point to start a hole however only the Forstner comes in large sizes.
> 
> So if you want to drill a hole and the size is available in both Brad and Forstner which one would you pick? Does it depend on the wood type or it is just a matter or preference?
> 
> Thank you


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Phew Talk about nations divided by a common language OK ...now I've seen the photos, a brad point bit is what we call a lip and spur bit over here. Thanks Bj.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Pete

This what we call a spade bit in the states 

" common language " I would be lost in your hardware store I think 

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Wood...ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1233697248&sr=1-6


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Very happy to know the difference

Thank you


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

One other thing should help to clarify when to use which bit, and that is the size. For the most part brad point bits are 1/2" and smaller. Forstner bits start at 1/4" and get larger, but for the most part they are used when your hole is over 1/2" diameter. Both are designed to give a cleaner cut than you would get with a traditional drill bit. Spade bits are sometimes called paddle bits and are usually flat with spurs in the center and on the outside edges. Spade bits are most often used for rough construction due to their poor quality of cut and low cost. There is one other major type of drill bit and that is commonly used, the auger bit. Auger bits are most often used to drill through thicker materials quickly. Using a hole saw on composite materials is a good idea, they cost less than drills in larger sizes but are limited in the depth of cut.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Good explanation, Thank you Mike


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Prior to conducting this test I intended to state categorically that Forstner bits reigned supreme, now after the test I have not changed my opinion!
For small holes up to about 3/8" brad bits are fine, because of their low cost, spade bits generally take over from here, and they do a respectable job, especially the type shown which is an Irwin made in the USA which you may notice has edge wings which are an improvement on the standard spade bits, however, a quality Forstner bit not only cuts a very clean hole, but in a stopped hole the bottom is flat with only a small indent from the point.


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

The one on the right looks like a sawtooth bit to me. Forstners don't have teeth, just a clean outer cutting edge.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nzgeordie said:


> The one on the right looks like a sawtooth bit to me. Forstners don't have teeth, just a clean outer cutting edge.


Over this way they're still called "Forstner style" bits with or without the saw teeth.

I just did this test, on the left is a 2" sawtooth and on the right a 50mm smooth rimmed bit. In the soft Pine the was little or no difference in drilling or finish, however in end grain, especially hard wood the sawtooth is the clear winner.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*I'm glad Nicolas choose to pop that question in here,*



harrysin said:


> Over this way they're still called "Forstner style" bits with or without the saw teeth.
> 
> I just did this test, on the left is a 2" sawtooth and on the right a 50mm smooth rimmed bit. In the soft Pine the was little or no difference in drilling or finish, however in end grain, especially hard wood the sawtooth is the clear winner.


*Thank You Harry, Mike and all,*
Nicolas asked the same question of me by email and I told him:

_Brad point bits seem to dig in better and not wander vs standard bits, but the Forstner bits I bought seem the same as those flat spade/spoon bits, made for bigger holes. I think they are also preferred for drill press work._

*But this forum, yourself and the rest of the more experienced woodworkers, are an education in itself!*

By regular bits I mean "standard" non-brad point bits. 
I've used brad-point bits myself, but did not understand the significance of the design.
I've used the spade bits since my start in woodworking in high school days. I've also used them and a pair of auger type (3/4" and 1") in a lot of electrical work over the years. 
Regular bits, I've used them when I had to work with metal and with my model trains, some of them get darn right tiny! (see attachment) And I have them down to #80.

Only recently did I get some Forstner bits and as of yet, have not had a chance to use them. 

I'm glad Nicolas choose to pop that question in here, we both learned!

Cordially,
Gerry


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

I very seldom use "regular" bits if I want a straight, consistant diameter hole. For doweling, brad point bits are the winner. For mounting say small clocks, etc, forstner is supreme. Spade bits are great for making holes in studs or other non-critical work.

Thats my 2 cents worth.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

To me it's what you want the pocket hole to look like after you drill the hole, the long blade is much cleaner than saw tooth type, the saw tooth type will hog out the hole like a saw so to speak,, but if you are going to see the inside of the hole you want it clean and flat...the saw tooth type is almost like using a spade bit, quick and ruff...
that will put put in the nasty looking saw tooth mark...


Brads vs Forstner

Like night and day bits,,,the forstner bits are almost always be put in on the flat or used in the drill press,the brad type bit can be use in a hand drill easy... the forstner bits ,if use in a hand drill will walk all over the place if used on a angle,, 


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harrysin said:


> Over this way they're still called "Forstner style" bits with or without the saw teeth.
> 
> I just did this test, on the left is a 2" sawtooth and on the right a 50mm smooth rimmed bit. In the soft Pine the was little or no difference in drilling or finish, however in end grain, especially hard wood the sawtooth is the clear winner.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> HI Harry
> 
> To me it's what you want the pocket hole to look like after you drill the hole, the long blade is much cleaner than saw tooth type, the saw tooth type will hog out the hole like a saw so to speak,, but if you are going to see the inside of the hole you want it clean and flat...the saw tooth type is almost like using a spade bit, quick and ruff...
> that will put put in the nasty looking saw tooth mark...
> ...


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Hi all
For large holes I use a hole saw. (usable scraps afterwards wheels, knobs etc.) You have a good drill bit in the center to keep everything lined up before the large hole gets started into the wood you want to drill. My hole saw collection if for electrical conduit work . (1/2" to 1-1/2" conduit)
Since we're measuring each other's d***s, I'd show mine but the collections I just saw but mine to shame. Mines smaller than both pictures above,  but has growth potential . 
My brad point set goes to 3/4".
Anything 3/4" & down & I need a good clean hole, a quality brad point works well.
RPM & wood type also have some effects. Hard woods machine better than most soft woods.
Forstner bits can bite or grab if too much pressure is applied at higher speeds in a hand drill & tie your arms in knots (sprain a wrist). Good in a drill press though.

IMHO: For a good wood drill bit, 1/2" & down. The brad point will be more versatile.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ok, now that the contest is over and the urinal is overflowing lets get back to the purpose of the thread. Brad point bits are the best choice for small holes, Forstner bits for larger sizes. There is another type of drill bit not mentioned but I saw a few in BJ's case: Black and Decker Pilot Point bits. If you are working on a limited budget and need a set of bits for all purposes the Pilot Point bits are a good choice. They improve hand held accuracy over standard bits in wood or metal and cost slightly more than regular bits.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

As you are in agreement with me Mike, I think the thread can now be closed!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

You got me going so I'm going to post a snapshot or two of the bits I have b/4 the thread gets closed  by the PTA chairmen of the board..

I should note, I make most of my brad point bits because they break off so easy. 


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harrysin said:


> bobj3 said:
> 
> 
> > HI Harry
> ...


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Just a small point - if you have to Forst the bit, your drill is probably still in reverse. 

I like both brad points and Forstners, but for different purposes. The Forstners only get used in the drill press here, lest they turn Aussie (go walkabout).


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

My Forstners have a sharp tip so they do not walk unless I go on an angle.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Never thought a simple question would involve so many answers.....

I'm still learning......


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

Looks like everything is answered here


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