# House Staircase Construction



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi,
I own a 1930s semi detached house, I'm looking into replacing the staircase. I don't want to restore the staircase, I want to build a contemporary style design. 
I've found a few books on staircase construction and I've looked at the reviews on Amazon. I'm thinking I might have missed some titles worth reading. In case I have, can anyone suggest any books worth having a look at. I've had a quick look on the net, couldn't find much on the subject. Are there any resources on the net I might find helpful.
Thanks


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Peter

Straight run or with kite winders?

Regards

Phil


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

" kite winders ' = ?????

fOUND IT
http://www.google.com/search?q=kite...yFIio8AS3gYnuDg&ved=0CE8QsAQ&biw=1037&bih=576
==


----------



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

From what little I know, so far, the staircase type I have is a 1/4 turn winder. Been looking at staircase maker sites, quite informative. Then again....... a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing


----------



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

I'm buying a Dewalt 733 thicknesser/ planer, also a planer knife sharpening jig to go on my Scheppach wetstone grinder. Looking at the actual winder treads themselves, can't put them through the Dewalt. How do I go about getting them done?
Cheers.


----------



## monty.smith (May 2, 2012)

Peter,

Ok so If I have a project that requires larger tools or machinery, I will go to the craft store and they will recommend a cabinet shop that will assist the hobby worker, I have built a cabinet makers bench, I picked up two flat railroad care decking, Laminated Oak 24"w 4"d 8'L, The local shop recommended a cabinet worker who had a large belt sander. It turned out flat and square for $20.00USD, Couldn’t ask for anything better.

I know this is a few months later than your last post maybe it will help? 

Monty


----------



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

monty.smith said:


> Peter,
> 
> Ok so If I have a project that requires larger tools or machinery, I will go to the craft store and they will recommend a cabinet shop that will assist the hobby worker, I have built a cabinet makers bench, I picked up two flat railroad care decking, Laminated Oak 24"w 4"d 8'L, The local shop recommended a cabinet worker who had a large belt sander. It turned out flat and square for $20.00USD, Couldn’t ask for anything better.
> 
> ...


OK thanks Monty,
Had sort of though of that, though more along the lines of another hobby woodworkers shop, asking for a favour, if they had suitable equipment. By what you advised, now thinking if need anything bigger done, will search out a smaller woodworking industrial type unit. Yeah good price you got, I'm always shopping around for the best deal, not because I have to, just enjoy getting a good deal 
Peter.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Gaia said:


> Looking at the actual winder treads themselves, can't put them through the Dewalt. How do I go about getting them done?


Hi Peter

Two ways - sub out planing/thicknessing all the treads to a joiners shop where they have a 24in thicknesser or (better) a wide belt sander or machine up the stock yourself and then glue-up the stock (using loose tongues). The latter might require a small amount of attention with a sharp plane and scraper afterwards.

A further thought is how are you ever going to handle machining the stringers? These are in the order of 14 or so feet long x 10 to 12in wide x 1-1/2 to 2in thick and are just far too large to machine in a small workshop (in fact they're hard enouigh to do on a 2.5 metre long overhand planer and a 24in thicknesser - a 2 man job at least). On softwood stairs it is easy enough to just buy dry graded stringers to the approximate correct dimensions from a timber merchant - hardwoods would need to be bought rough sawn and then machined to order. In either case you'd still need to glue on your own fillets (called "easings") to handle the winder ends

One point I would caution you on is the use of American textbooks on a stairway in the UK because the USA has different requirements to here (vice versa is also true). Stair installation/replacement is classed as notifiable work (i.e the Building Inspector should be informed but won't necessarily come to inspect) and all flights of stairs must conform to UK Building Regs to avoid either a fine, problems when you come to sell your house or problems with your mortgage provider/house insurers (fall down a non-legal flight of stairs you made and installed yourself and you'll find out what I mean). Fortunately the calculations aren't difficult and were I you I'd be looking at something like books by Porter & Rose, Goring or Brett (all City & Guiild textbooks) . After supper I'll look through my small library and try to find you the best book for you to get hold of

Regards

Phil


----------



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Phil[/QUOTE]

" Two ways - sub out planing/thicknessing all the treads to a joiners shop where they have a 24in thicknesser or (better) a wide belt sander or...... machine up the stock yourself??? 
The treads forming the 1/4 turn winder are to large to go through the Dewalt. When you say machine them myself, do you mean these treads? All the other treads can be handled by the Dewalt. What would be the other method of thicknessing the 1/4 turn treads?

" A further thought is how are you ever going to handle machining the stringers? "
The top of the wall mounted stringer is curved going toward the 1/4 winder, before I abandoned the idea of getting a 14 inch bandsaw, I thought could use the bandsaw to cut the curve. With the bandsaw I could have started with an oblong block, cut on the bandsaw to required thickness, then cut the curve. Think that might have been quite a waste of wood, the scrap.

" (fall down a non-legal flight of stairs you made and installed yourself and you'll find out what I mean). " Exactly 

" Fortunately the calculations aren't difficult and were I you I'd be looking at something like books by Porter & Rose, Goring or Brett (all City & Guiild textbooks) . "
OK will check them out.

" After supper I'll look through my small library and try to find you the best book for you to get hold of. "

Brill much appreciated.
I think I got a really good price on the Dewalt 733, £399 inc vat inc delivery, also got the Schappach thicknesser knife sharpening jig to fit the wetstone grinder.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi again Peter

As to books the one which would probably serve you best would be Peter Brett's "Carpentry & Joinery: Book 2 - Practical Activities", ISBN978-0-7487-8502-5 publ. Nelson Thornes, circa £19. This book is written as part of the City & Guilds/NVQ training curriculum and contains information about flat and pitched roof construction, partition (stud) walls, timber frame construction, *stairs*, *doors, frames and linings*, *windows* (casement, bay, swivel, vertical sliding sash, etc), etc It is emphatically NOT a DIY guide and it assumes a basic knowledge of joinery woodworking, e.g. tools, materials, joints, setting out, applied geometry and applied calculations (which if you want to learn more are in Vol. 1 of Mr Brett's books), but it contains the kernal of knowledge for many of the projects you seem interested in.

One other point about stair building which you might consider - assembling a flight of stairs isn't really a one-man job; installing them, especially those with a winder (which requires some on-site assembly) *absolutely* isn't

Regards

Phil


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Peter



Gaia said:


> > Two ways - sub out planing/thicknessing all the treads to a joiners shop where they have a 24in thicknesser or (better) a wide belt sander or...... machine up the stock yourself???
> 
> 
> The treads forming the 1/4 turn winder are to large to go through the Dewalt. When you say machine them myself, do you mean these treads? All the other treads can be handled by the Dewalt. What would be the other method of thicknessing the 1/4 turn treads?


Machine the winder treads as two or even three pieces of timber (and that is how a joiners shop would do it because you almost never seen timbers wider than 12in today - even the kite winders in my house are wider than that at full width) then joint them together. I suggest a good UF glue, loose tongues, grooves and wedge cramps (a form of cheap home-made sash cramp)



Gaia said:


> > A further thought is how are you ever going to handle machining the stringers?
> 
> 
> The top of the wall mounted stringer is curved going toward the 1/4 winder, before I abandoned the idea of getting a 14 inch bandsaw, I thought could use the bandsaw to cut the curve. With the bandsaw I could have started with an oblong block, cut on the bandsaw to required thickness, then cut the curve. Think that might have been quite a waste of wood, the scrap.


Actually shaping the "easings" isn't a problem - the curved bits can be cut with a jig saw or even a bow saw and the resulting adge cleaned up with a spokeshave, router (and template), a compass plane, a belt sander or a combination of some/any/all the above. It is the actual machining of the strings which carry the treads and risers I was referring to (and even open staircases are supposed to have "pygymy" risers). Getting 12 or 14 x 2in hardwood in 14ft or longer lengths through a small lunchbox planer would be, well, difficult

BTW the book I recommended will in all probability be available through your local library, it being C&G approved course reading

Regards

Phil


----------



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Phil P said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> 
> Machine the winder treads as two or even three pieces of timber (and that is how a joiners shop would do it because you almost never seen timbers wider than 12in today - even the kite winders in my house are wider than that at full width) then joint them together. I suggest a good UF glue, loose tongues, grooves and wedge cramps (a form of cheap home-made sash cramp)
> ...


" Machine the winder treads as two or even three pieces of timber (and that is how a joiners shop would do it because you almost never seen timbers wider than 12in today. "
I did think of doing it like that, the staircase would not be painted so the join I thought would be visible . Also thought would need to keep the 1/4 winder treads the size they are to maintain proportions of original staircase.
" It is the actual machining of the strings which carry the treads and risers I was referring to " I'm with you, I think  Had seen mention of home made templates for this.
" BTW the book I recommended will in all probability be available through your local library, it being C&G approved course reading "
About 10 minutes ago bought 2nd hand off Ebay £2.50 inc delivery, Peter Brett's "Carpentry & Joinery: Book 2 - Practical Activities"
Could only find Vol. 1 at an expensive new price, also thought will get through library.
As ever thanks for the helpful sensible advice.
Pete.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Peter

When developing the shape of the "easings" it can be very helpful to set-out the area of the turn (both sides) full size on a sheet of 3mm MDF or hardboard first. In addition a full-size plan view of the winder area will help you understand the construction better (as well as giving you the actual sizes of the treads). I think you may have a bit of a learning curve - doing a straigh stair is difficult enough, starting out with a winder is a lot more ambitious. 

Well done on the book, that was a steal. The first volume is a lot less necessary for what you are doing

Regards

Phil


----------

