# cnc router/engraver



## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Hello all..)...I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to the best cnc router/engraver for 5000 and under...I am using this strictly for mandala artwork which measures 15" by 15"and work "in the negative"...I was hoping to carve/etch my designs into wood/glass/stainless steel....I have looked at the probotix comet/shopbot desktop/stepcraft 2 and I believe another engraver/router by the Vision company...A sample of one of my designs below and thanks for any leads!!


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the router forum.
I will move this to the Cnc section for better response!


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Thanks for that!!


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

I have attached a pic of your design using CarveWright CNC machine software. You can invert your design and make molds or carve. make mirrored images and etc. If your objective is cutting steel this is not the machine to use. Wood or plastic work well. You can even import . STL or export design into .STL files


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

wow...


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

.....Gino you are my hero!!!.....Thank you so much for taking the time to do this...)...I am computer illiterate, would this be hard to learn??...I will definitely check out the Carvewright machine as the seemingly simplistic software is just what I am looking for...Could the Carvewright etch copper? Are spindles worth the extra dough?....Thanks again for your help and thanks Stick486 for the "like"!!


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## RingNeckBlues (Apr 30, 2012)

mandalamaker said:


> .....Gino you are my hero!!!.....Thank you so much for taking the time to do this...)...I am computer illiterate, would this be hard to learn??...I will definitely check out the Carvewright machine as the seemingly simplistic software is just what I am looking for...Could the Carvewright etch copper? Are spindles worth the extra dough?....Thanks again for your help and thanks Stick486 for the "like"!!


The Carvewright is a enclosed system and they do not recommend metals as a carving medium. To much of a chance of the metal chips/filings getting into the working systems (belts, gears and bearings). Beyond that is is a great system...


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

Thanks RingNeck.....I read the max width is 14.5 and all of my designs are 14"...Do you think this would pose a problem?...It seems the Carvewright is the simplest machine for a novice...Are there other software programs or cnc machines that would make a sketch like Gino showed and are easy to operate?....Thank again guys for responding to my post, I am seeing some light as to which direction I should go..)


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Probotix sells a small CNC (V90 Mk2) that might work for you. Cutting area is listed as 20" x 13", but I know their larger routers have more area accessible than they state. I'd bet another inch could be found by moving limit stops and changing one line in a .INI file. 

I've increased my Meteor CNC from the specified 25" x 50" to 26.5" x 52.5" without doing anything to lengthen the bed. 

The next step up is their Comet, with 25" x 25" listed. 

Both come completely ready to run, only needing to be plugged together.

The hard part, which will be true with any CNC you get, is the up-front software you'll need to turn your ideas into g-code the machines can run. Vectric.com has Cut2D ($149) and VCarve Desktop ($349) which both may be capable of handling your needs. They also have online video tutorials to show you how to use their products. 

4D


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

If you are going to buy get the biggest size you can afford, Also get one that does not have proprietary bits like the carvewright I started out with one and ended up getting a big flat bed unit as the Carvewright was just not up to what I wanted to do


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Wow, thanks again guys, I have so much to learn and am excited at the capabilities of these machines, but intimidated by the software which is why the Carvewright seems so appealing.....After doing some research it seems a machine like the Probotix Comet may be the best bang for my buck though I would still have to work out the issue of getting my design onto a program the cnc can read like Gino was nice enough to sample for me....I will not use the machine I get for anything but my art so I guess once I get the routine I could repeat it for the next piece...Does anyone know if the sample provided by Gino is considered 2D or 3D and which software would best suit my needs....I do not want to spend 500+ on software that is overkill for my applications....I also want to etch on glass, aluminum and copper and am hoping that a machine like the Comet can do these things....I've narrowed it down to the Probotix Comet, Shopbot Desktop, Axiom Autoroute 4, Romax WD-1 and still looking into the Stepcraft 2 although it seems a little limited when it comes to power...If anyone has experience with any of these machines I am all ears!!....I appreciate all of those who have replied to my post and cannot wait to get my business up and running...)


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

Here is a quick demo of what vcarve desk top can do. It is cheaper thab the standard version but limits the size to 24 X 24 instead of unlimited size for Vcarve pro.


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

.....Thanks fixtureman!!....Pardon my ignorance but it just looks like the program turned the drawing red??...Is it able to have the more 3d look that Gino had??....Thanks again....)


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

.....I would not need to ever go any bigger than 24 x 24 so in that regards it is perfect...Does the red represent the parts the router does not touch??...In other words it routes out all of the black??....Would the result of the finished product look the same whether using Gino's example or yours?...Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get a handle on the process!!


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Here is a quick rendering I did of the above image with VCarvePro 8. Took me less than 5 minutes. It could look even better with a little more editing. I don't have it but I believe Cut 2D could accomplish the same thing. You could upload the free trial and try it out.

Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

In VCarve you can do what they call V-Carving, where a V-bit or a ball nosed bit will move up and down to stay within the lines of a drawing. You can get a very nice pseudo-3D effect, and make a negative by just adding another outline around the artwork. 

You also have the potential to do much more true 3D reliefs, so long as you can find the 3D model to import into it. Aspire could take the same art and model it into a very 3D carving. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Here is the same file but using 4D's suggestion of putting an outline around the image and recalculating. I like it even better.

Jay


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Thanks so much guys!!...Now I am starting to get it...Jay, yours(1st rendering) if very close to what I am after except the exact opposite where the machine touches everything but what it touched in your rendering...But it actually looks cool the way you did it as well and seems that your rendering would be less wear on the bits as it is carving out less material....The Vcarve is definitely what I am after then....I will have to look into the Aspire although that is probably way over my head at this point in time and may overwhelm me...I am not even sure how my design would render in 3d??...Thanks for the pointers guys they have been a lot of help...Ron at Romaxx said a spindle would be overkill for what I am trying to do, would you guys agree?....The 2 machines I have my eye on are the Romaxx WD1 and the PDJ Pilot Pro...The Pilot Pro is lesser known but looks like a tank!!...Both about 5000.00...I'm going to have a look at Vcarve, thanks again guys..)


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Nice Jay!!..That second one seems to have more depth!!...It's so cool that you can do it so many different ways...My pyrography takes 15 hours and now a world of speed and options has opened up....Are these programs that can be learned in a few weeks or would it likely take longer?


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I own a Probotix Meteor and love it. I watched the tutorials and played with the free trial version of the program and by the time I got my CNC and software, I was ready to start cutting wood. That's what I suggest, download the free trial and play with it while watching the tutorials. You'll really enjoy this venture.

Vectric Ltd - Trial Software


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....Will do Jay....I have my eye on the comet but I believe with the attachments and software I'm up to 7000 grand..5 Grand is my goal....I plan on doing a lot of the designs on circles such as wooden and copper plates so 16" x 16" would suit my needs, but who could complain about having a little extra room!!...If I am only doing etching and never any cutting do you think a spindle is necessary...Those babies ain't cheap and if a nice router would suffice I'll take that route...Do I need a V bit to do a V carve?...This type of technology is just what I needed to allow me a chance to earn a living doing what I love....I am down the rabbit hole now so theres no turning back!!


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

...Gonna check out that free trial version..Thanks for the lead Jay


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I don't have a spindle but use a small router. If you are engraving metal you could use a diamond drag bit. They can be purchased for less than a hundred bucks and are mounted in the router collet and used to engrave the metal without the router running. In VCarvePro 8 there is a tool path option for quick engraving. Yes, V-groove bits are used in Vcarving wood. I have some very small, sharp angle v-bits that I use to do engraving type cuts in wood. They can be found with 30 or 20 or smaller degree tips. It's possible to do some very intricate carving with those tiny bits.


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

...That is great news Jay, sound like the Comet is creeping closer!!....The V carve bits sound perfect for getting into tight corners which all of my designs have....If I engrave glass and metals does it release dangerous fibers into the air...Should I enclose my system and set up some sort of dust trap...Should I wear a dust mask??..I know Shopbot has a pretty hefty vacuum unit for 600 hundred bucks but I doubt it works with other machines...I think you are right Jay, this is going to be a cool journey...Of course there will be pitfalls, but the power this tool can provide is beyond compare...Technology at it's finest...)


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I have the Cyclone dust collection system that Probotix offers. It catches almost every bit of dust and chips the CNC produces. It helps keep my shop and lungs nearly dust free. It comes on automatically with the router when cutting a project. Well worth the money.


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

....That's a go Jay, and I'm still under 5 grand!!...You've been very helpful Jay and I think the Comet with small router, glass/metal carving bits, v bits for wood, vcarve software, cyclone and I'm just about set...I have a mac which may pose a problem but a small PC should not cost too much??....On a side note Jay, you don't happen to work for Probotix do you??!!


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

...Hey Jay, what is you're favorite small router??...I've seen people mainly mention Bosch, Porter Cable and Dewalt??


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I use a Dewalt DW611 router. It's a tough little machine.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Neither Jay or 4D work for Probotix. They just use em.

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I did sound like a Probotix commercial, didn't I, HJ? Just a happy owner.


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

I would like to make sure you understand you would not need to purchase any other software with the Carvewright machine. You can do as I did in the sample I sent. The software can adjust for 4 different feathering setting. 4 different draft, depth of cut, auto mirror and etc that you select. All you would need to do is import a good image (90 degree) into the software and crop it to your needs. Once you have made this pattern you can then load the pattern into the editing feather to clean it all up. The editing feature is also part of the software package. 

I would not use this machine to cut metal. If you are talking about taking shallow cuts then define the depth needed and contact Carvewright. The new chuck will hold any 1/4 inch cutting tool. 

The only other software I use is the STL import program. I use this because I also do 3D printing and can now convert all my pattern to run on wood CNC or 3D printer. Plus there are 1000's of free 3D models to download. I do not think you would need this added software for your projects at this time. 

take care my friend and enjoy woodworking


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

keep in mind that all CNC machines are just a mechanical system that move a spinning cutting head in three vector directions, X, Y, and Z.

The key to design work is software. Once you have a design you generally convert the Design to tool paths and load those in the CNC machine and the up, down, left right starts happening. 

Down load some of Aspires / Vectric's free sample software and you will see just how easy it is to copy designs like this. 

And that is my two bits worth..


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

He said he needed it 15 inches wide


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## Gino0105 (Feb 16, 2012)

I believe this is what he stated his needs were.

"I read the max width is 14.5 and all of my designs are 14"...Do you think this would pose a problem??" 14" widths would not be a problem if all coroners are 90 degrees


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

I don't recommend the Bosch Colt router. They used to be a good little router, but they have cheapened them up. The lower bearing mount is made out of plastic.

I would go with the Dewalt. Probotix does build a great machine and they stand behind them as well.

Dave


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## mandalamaker (Jan 8, 2016)

...Hey guys!!....Thanks for all the additional feedback...)....Scottart is it really that easy??...Hope so!!....Plan on checking out the free samples and playing around on my next day off....Gino, the Carvewright seems like a unique machine, but the surface area in not quite large enough and it does not seem quite as burly as the other brands, but I really would not know either way, just what it seems from looking at them....;o)...Right now it is between the Probotix Comet and a lesser known machine called the Pilotpro, both around 5000...I attached the specs for the Pilotpro and if anyone could tell me if it looks decent that would be awesome!!...Thanks again guys, you all have been very welcoming and helpful and Scottart you have some gorgeous work!!....)


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Don't know anything about the Pilot Pro, but have had lots of experience with the Probotix machines. I would go with the Comet hands down. If you want plug and play, it won't get any easier. That is not to say that you still won't have a LOT of learning to do...especially if you want to make stuff like Scott.

Good luck!


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