# Clamping Problems



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I just lost a 12 x 36 inch piece of oak when it came loose on the table. Had double sided heavy Scotch tape and carpet tape on it. Seemed solid when I started but it vibrated loose. Don't want to screw into the bed too much so looks like I gotta get some T-track or something and make some sort of set up with clamps.

Anybody got any bright ideas other than 4D's T-track system?

HJ

Oak ain't cheap !!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> I just lost a 12 x 36 inch piece of oak when it came loose on the table. Had double sided heavy Scotch tape and carpet tape on it. Seemed solid when I started but it vibrated loose. Don't want to screw into the bed too much so looks like I gotta get some T-track or something and make some sort of set up with clamps.
> 
> Anybody got any bright ideas other than 4D's T-track system?
> 
> ...


Toggle clamps... Bessey® Auto-Adjust Toggle Clamps & Mounting Plate, 20mm Post - Lee Valley Tools
bench dog and a bench pup... http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=62720&cat=1,41637,41645,62720


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Omer B17P Composite Nailer | CNCRouterParts

John this may seem lame , but I'm lazy enough I'm almost considering this^^ 
But tell you truth I'm kinda liking 4D's idea the best


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you don't want to go all the way with t-track like I did, have the CNC drill (pocket) 3/8" diameter holes on a 4" grid into the bed for 1/4-20 threaded inserts. Buy knife-edged brass inserts to put in the holes. Bought in 25 packs they aren't so expensive: https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0123228?term=1/4-20+brass+inserts 

Then make a few clamps like I linked to previously or a simpler version of your own design, buy some 1/4-20 threaded rod and cut it into 3" studs or so, then get some washers and wing nuts to hold the clamps down. You can also thread a stud into any two holes along a line to butt your boards into to help align them on the table.

You can also make a straight edge or L-bracket and hold it down with bolts screwed into a couple of inserts when you have several of the same sized pieces to cut. 

4D


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

On heavier pieces i lay them on plywood than screw 2x4's around the outside like a frame. It stops any X or Y motion.

Wont help if it tries to lift up, unless you clamp the side boards to the material with big clamps.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Yeah, RainMan - - those plastic nails look interesting, but you're still going to tear up the bed and probably end up with some of those buggers in the finished product.

You're right. I think 4D's got the best idea in principle going. 

Trouble is, I just got Nebbie to make letters. I don't have a clue on how to get it to cut grooves.

HJ

Making my first sign that will actually be put up in a public place ............... if it's not too awful bad


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D

How do you handle a piece that has to be "cut out"? You don't want to cut into the base with the T-tracks but still have to hold the material.

HJ

Needs more and more "accessories"


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I keep scraps of 1/8" and 1/4" plywood near my CNC, and will shim the material up off the bed using that. My clamps hold it down where no toolpath will cut through them, and I set my cutting depth to .01 deeper than the board is thick. I use tabs to keep the parts in place on the last pass so they don't move. I bandsaw the parts apart then will trim off the tabs and any thin wood where the cut may not have gone completely through with a flush trim bit in a router table. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

To make a groove you can profile ON a line with a bit the width of the groove. Or you can draw a rectangle to outline the length and width of the groove you want then pocket cut it down to the cutting depth you want, or all the way through the material. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I think I can do something like that. With Cut 2D I'm limited. For instance, there is no "arch" in 2D, but there is in Vcarve. It's the old you just get a "sample" of the higher priced product.

Vectric already said they'd give me $150 credit towards Aspire.

So guess what? Aspire will be on it's way next week sometime !!!!!!

HJ

Still trying to stay on Mama's good side


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

one more comment as I add tools to my design process.

While in Aspire. it is easy to mark outside the design, but still on the material where no tool will go. I do this with .25 inch hole cut at .2 deep. i clamp the material on to a sheet of plywood. than the very first cut I make is to find those 3 to 6 .25 " holes. Than I remove the clamps and use screws from the top down through those marking holes in to the material below. I know longer worry about use screws from the bottom up.

Just one more method that can help.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I ended up putting aluminum strips across the bottom. I took the screws out, drilled all the way thru, put a #6 flathead bolt thru the t-track, MDF, and aluminum strip. Spaced the strips about every 9 inches or so and across the cross cuts. I have to order some some more track to finish it, but this should hold for a while, I hope.

Still think I'm going to build a new bed out of multi-trak from Rockler. Will wait til they have a 40 or 50% of sale, and just start accumulating parts. Then I can use this track for a work table and use their cookie package and attachments.

The 8020 was cool, but takes 1/4 in bolts only - rendering the 5/16 Rockler stuff useless.

HJ

Got Aspire - just don't know what to do with it yet.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Got Aspire - just don't know what to do with it yet.


The forums at vectric.com are a great place to get ideas for what to do with Aspire: Vectric Forum ? Index page 

There are also several free projects with files available to cut on your own CNC: Free CNC Projects

I get plenty of inspiration from the students I teach, but watching many of their tutorials was where I learned how to draw, toolpath, and cut the creative things college students dream up: http://support.vectric.com/tutorials/V8/AspireCategoryIndex.html

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You guys ever use sign foam instead of wood. Supposed to cut easier, paint easier, not splinter, and last a whole lot longer than wood.

4D -- I've watched many of the tutorials more than once. Still having a hard time keeping up with what they're doing. It's like a college lecture course - - prof says it once and you're supposed to know what's being said and understand it completely. But I'll keep swinging.

Got to learn now how to detail with a 1/8 bit and clear with a 1/4 ............ and save different toolpaths for each object on a sign with different fonts .............. as well as transferring clip art and tracing my own pics ........... and sculpting a carving to make it more realistic ................. and recessing an object or word, and ...........................

HJ

Guns and wood sure are two expensive hobbies (Mrs HJ - 2013, 2014, 2015)


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you have two monitors, or at least a single larger one, you can play their videos in one screen window while working along side in Aspire in another. Pause/rewind the video after each segment until you have it worked out. OK OK.... I am a college professor. I'm apologizing for that right now.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Apology accepted. You didn't know back then. lol

You and Jay anywhere near the tornadoes?

HJ

And I do have 2 monitors hooked to my main machine - thinking of adding a 3rd one


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

A little over the top but I love my assembly table solution.










I love the Kregg AutoMaxx Bench clamps and the Rockler T Track speed clamps.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Brad,

Gotta love those pressure speed clamps. I got a couple of the Rockler's. Gonna have to wait til Rockler has a big big sale before I can get any more. I only use them on one side because the spindle will hit the handle if it's in the path. The Rockler screw down clamps usually are low enough so the spindle passes over. The stop blocks are great, too.

Good looking setup.

HJ

Can never have too many clamps


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> You and Jay anywhere near the tornadoes?


They get close enough. One did a hop-skip-jump through town a few years back and took out a few houses, a True Value, and broke out some skylights in a few university buildings with all the debris it was throwing around. Skimmed over my X'es medical practice (across the highway from the True Value) and only damaged a few shingles but blew over trees on either side. Left debris from the houses up the hill on their roof.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

I love Aspire. And you can try it for free to make sure it does what you want it to do. The trial version just can't make Tool paths.. 

good luck


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

timbertailor said:


> A little over the top but I love my assembly table solution.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OOOOH I like. are those locked down in standard slots?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Scottart said:


> OOOOH I like. are those locked down in standard slots?


Glad you like it.

Yep. Just standard dual purpose track from Woodpecker. I had to file down the bolts on the clamps to fit but that took less than 20 minutes to rectify.

It fits the top of my router table so it also saves me a lot of space I do not currently have.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

It works so far. Did 3 separate cuts with different size projects, all oak. Held a-ok. Just have to watch the spindle so it doesn't hit the clamp handles. Probably overdid it with the clamps, but seeing things come loose partway into it isn't much fun to watch. Still hoping to add some cross track pieces.

Got to make some of the wooden clamps with the longer arms like 4D did. 

I know this bed will be replaced down the road with a permanent aluminum tracked one. But for now I'm hoping this'll do the trick.

HJ

C'mon Rockler, it's about time for a big big sale !!!!!


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

honesttjohn said:


> It works so far. Did 3 separate cuts with different size projects, all oak. Held a-ok. Just have to watch the spindle so it doesn't hit the clamp handles. Probably overdid it with the clamps, but seeing things come loose partway into it isn't much fun to watch. Still hoping to add some cross track pieces.
> 
> Got to make some of the wooden clamps with the longer arms like 4D did.
> 
> ...


I see you found that the Rockler track leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to holding capabilities. I like how you added aluminium strapping to the underside and bolted the tracks down, instead of screwing them down. Good work!!!!

This was the primary reason for me using dual purpose track so I could bolt the tracks down like you did.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I learned the hard way. Originally I screwed the track right into the bed. Started to pull screws out on first use. This will have to do for a little while, but I can see a new bed out of all multitrac in the future. Probotix should offer such a thing, at least as an add-on option.

But, when I make it, Ill do it in two pieces, so I can take a 12" section out when (and if) I use the rotary. Grand expectations for a long life to figure this thing out.

HJ

Shouldn't get bored in retirement if I can afford this "hobby"


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Looks like you've solved the problem of screws pulling out when clamping tight. We solved it with through bolts, washer and locking nuts. The latest version works better and keeps our t-track strips away from bits that might cut into the MDF top. We do a lot of through profile cuts making furniture parts. Use 1/8" plywood scraps to lift the boards off the MDF when cutting through. 

You are also smart using the stop blocks as there is more sideways force than lifting force and the normal Rocker clamps are not that good at preventing sideways movement.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Those stop blocks are cool. Rockler quit offering the longer ones, but a bunch of short ones work just as good. Looks like it might not be too hard to make a few longer ones as needed. 1/4" bolts and wingnuts. Got some cherry and maple pieces laying around.

Concentrating now on how to do letters in a recessed eclipse, and how to use Vectric's clipart in a carved recessed dish of some sort. Got a pretty big (34 x 30 is big to me) sign to do that uses probably 4-6 different toolpaths and processes. I know there's a way to put it all in one file, but I may just clamp the whole laminated piece of maple to the table and try to create each part of it individually. I know that's not the way to do it, but I think I can put it together like that, and a least get a finished product out without showing too much ineptness.

Still waiting for the Aspire disk in the mail. The downloadable version I got has to be installed each time I use it.

Looking for auto and motorbike clipart - - none on Aspire

HJ

Hoping to just cross the finish line eventually - doesn't have to be in the money.


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