# Cutting shelf brackets on table?



## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

I need ten wooden shelf brackets. Here's my plan: make a template of 1/4 hardboard. Put 3/8 upcut spiral in table. tape template to 10"X10" piece of 3/4" pine. Feed wood/template into bit and cut the pieces that way,rather than using a scroll or jig saw. Am I okay?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

You may want to use a trim router bit in place of the upcut bit and maybe make a quick jig like the one below.
Envelope Jig
http://routerworkshop.com/envelopejig.html
Or you can install a brass guide in the router plate and do it the same way and use the upcut bit but the skew trim bit will give you a nice clean edge, no sanding the norm.

Then use the band saw/jig saw and trim the parts with in a 1/8" of the template and then put in on the router table and all the brackets will all come out just the same. 

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I agree with both of you...

I would make the template / pattern, place on workpiece, mark it out with pencil, cut within 1/8" of the line with band saw, (maybe tape a few together)... tape template back on & route, etc.

Roundover, etc. too...

You could get fancy like Bob & Rick do... and build a little carrier for the template with hold-down clamps for the workpiece... then each piece is just a 'snap' away!  

You'll do it just fine... you have the right idea...

Let us see what you ended up with... OK?


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Sorry fellas, I didn't make myself clear. I KNOW how to cut pieces with band saw/jig saw and THEN run w/template and trim bit. What I am wondering is, can a guy just CUT the piece, from 3/4 pine, using a pattern, temp.guide and 3/8" upcut spiral bit mounted in the table. Okay? You've got the bit sticking up, through the brass guide. You start with an 8" X 8" piece of pine. Use a starting pin or pointer to get the wood ON the bit and then cut the piece. See what I mean? ONE cut, bam! Done! Then roundover, sand. Cut TEN, round TEN, quick sand TEN and DONE! Beer time! My thought is that by using the 3/8 spiral I am going to get a nice clean cut to begin with.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

Yes, you can do it that way. BUT it's hard on the bit cutting 3/4" pine in one pass, pine can be nasty because of the pitch in pine .
It will warm the bit up, watch the bit if you see it turning blue stop.  and let it cool down 
You are making a 24" long pass so to speak.
You are using a 40.oo bit (the norm) to some make brackets. 

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I have a jig that I made to do just what you are doing if you want to see a snapshot of it just ask and I will post it, the brackets I make using the siding dovetail so you can't see how they stay in place. (hidden) in the shelft and the back board or I put key holes into the brackets to hang them on the wall.

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Yep, it will warm up a bit... (   punn intended)

That's the reason for using the bandsaw... to make it easier on the bit.


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Okay guys. Got it. I don't have a band saw so will use a scroll or jig saw. Just gonna take longer. But then, what the hell....my schedule is pretty open for the next week!!
Thanks. I will report back. I will be able to work better now that the ten stitches are out of my finger.
I sent the guy an email and demanded my money back, saying he was selling dangerous tools!! Ha!! Actually, a very nice Hen &Rooster lockback knife. Pretty good stuff.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

Here's a snapshot or two of what my jig looks like, plus what the shelf brackets look like.
Once you make the base jig you can add just about anything you want to it, for a new pattern like in picture number 1 and 3 top.
I use that for making feet for cabinets. 
The base jig is the 1st and the 4th picture on the bottom row.

Bj 
Just a one more jig to put in/on the dovetails and slots ▼
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/3847-sliding-dovetail-jig.html#post37175

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Safety story by Birch ▼
http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/4403-safety-story.html#post41671

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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Great looking and working jig Bob. Thanks for posting it!

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Corey 

It works great , the best part of the jig, I can add just about any pattern to the same jig  Quick and Easy .

Bj


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob,that is without doubt the best post from you since I joined this forum,photographs of actual work performed (especially good quality ones) are so much more useful and interesting than just links, I'm sure the latter are required SOMETIMES but not as the norm. I now feel confident that I will be able to make some very neat shelf brackets in the future. I hope you have now created a precedent! Harry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Harry

You may want to check out the show and tell and the jig items on the forum, I do post some in there but not all, someone pulls my chain and I post them at that point or to say at the question.
But I do use links all the time...  

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. 
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.
-- Chinese proverb --

BJ


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

yep, I got a folder on my desktop full of Bob's Jigs that I've found while browsing the forum.
That's another real slick jig Bob. Thanks for posting it.

Greg


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Greg

I hope you and others can use it  ,,,it's a easy one to make and can do so many projects, i.e. just by making a new pattern and poping it in place and use the wood blocks to hold it in place, it will also do thick stock (1 1/2") by just changing the carr.bolts to longer one.
To make feet for a cabinet(s) ,they are always hard to do on the band saw but with the jig you can make them quick and easy   and they will all be the same. 
I use crown molding most of the time ,cut it to size,then put it in the jig and then cut the ends to a 45deg. and glue them up. 
I will post a snapshot of one or two that I have made.



Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Bobj,

I like the way you and Tom zero'd in on making sliding Dovetail Pins...
... but it looks like one jig per workpiece width...(??)
There has to be a better way...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Pins
You can make more than one at a time by clamping them up, lets say 4 or more.
(6 works best when you only need 4 brackets) ,together as a pack, then put them on end and pass them over the dovetail bit, this will do two boards at one time but it's tricky setup,it takes a spacer between the boards the norm, it works great for 1" thick stock without the spacer.
The dovetail bit will go down the center of the 2 boards and put one side of the dovetail pin on each board on each pass  then move the fence back just a bit and make one more pass, when your done you will have 4 boards with dovetail pins.

This is a quick way but again it's tricky setup because most stock is not always the same thickness (once you put in a spacers) and .002" is a big deal when it comes to dovetails. 

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Yes Bob, it's that "tricky" messin around part I don't like...

There must be a better way...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Now you have sometihing to think about when you are trying to go to sleep 

Counting sheep gets old, and who knows you just may come up with a better way and make some big bucks $$$$$ at the same time.
The best show on TV is HOW-IT'S-MADE, I look forward to seeing your machine on that program .

Pie are Sq. NOPE pie are round  


Bj 

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Not a 'machine'... just a GOOD jig...  

Tom's sketches look pretty good for a 'base' from which to work.

OK... back to sleep... ZZZZZZZZ Z Z Z Z Z Z zzzzzzzz z z z z z z z .......


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

If you get a chance to view the RWS Episode(s) below, it will show Bob and Rick the pros. make the same type of table as Tom's ,with sliding dovetails. 
I think it did air on the http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/ because it's old episode but it's a good one. 
Or
Individual plans can be purchased by selecting the links below, the project book is also available for this series.

207 - 208 Two Part - Curved Leg Table:

In episode #207 Bob shows you his tin can geometry to lay out and cut circles and curves with your router. 
Both are used to produce the top of an attractive end table. 
In show #208 Bob uses the same techniques to produce a curved leg pattern fixture to pattern cut four identical legs. 
The hosts use the dovetail joint to fasten the legs to the top. 
207. Curved Leg Table, Part 1 Table top 
208. Curved Leg Table, Part 2 Tapered Legs


http://www.routerworkshop.com/S200.html

Bj


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Keep up the good work Bob, you have now proved that you not only can,but actually do make sawdust and can post good quality photographs. I and I'm sure lots of others now look forward to you're new format.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry ,Thanks

I do make my share of saw dust from time to time here are just 3 of them.

Just a NOTE*** I have uploaded 42.8 MB of pictures of jigs,projects,etc. to the forum.
About 1/3 of them are projects   they are just all over the place.

Just 476 of 2,237 posted items ▼
http://www.routerforums.com/search.php?searchid=125569

Bj


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob, what perfect examples they are of you're work. I really am looking forward to some photo-shoots during future projects, don't you now agree with me that this is the way to go and only post links when they are really necessary. PLEASE do keep up the good work Bob.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I do agree with you, the next time I make a new project I will do that but I now have 745mb of files on my HD just for the forum. 
That's alot of pictures  

Bj


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Bob:
Thanks for the post and the photos. A GREAT help to me and others. I am gonna start on those brackets this week-end. Should go well now.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Bj, I have seen the hutch ( excellent) but have never seen the rolling cart/table or the wooden car. Awesome! I mad a model T some years ago back when I had a little band saw. There is alot of work in one of those cars. Nice job BJ!

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Birch and You'er Welcome

Have fun besure to post some snapshots 

Bj 



Birch said:


> Bob:
> Thanks for the post and the photos. A GREAT help to me and others. I am gonna start on those brackets this week-end. Should go well now.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Corey
I have made many,many toys.boxes,furn,etc. and put some of them in the 2006 Contest but I didn't win that one .
I should say I did win 2nd place and that was great 
You'er right about toys they can take more time than most projects many small parts to make and fit.like wheels for just one of them.

Talking about Contest as Mark when he is going to post the winner(s) of the last one ????
challagan Forum Moderator


Here's some links to that Contest and some snapshots of some of the boxes,toys,furn.,etc..

2006 Contest
http://www.routerforums.com/contest...-com-oak-park-com-september-2006-contest.html

http://www.routerforums.com/contest...er-2006-contest-voting-stage-2.html#post35079


Bj 





challagan said:


> Bj, I have seen the hutch ( excellent) but have never seen the rolling cart/table or the wooden car. Awesome! I mad a model T some years ago back when I had a little band saw. There is alot of work in one of those cars. Nice job BJ!
> 
> Corey


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

GREAT Jig Bob! Just the shrelf bracket jig. I am awaiting a shipment from Rockler, which as a home office just down the road 175 miles before I start on my bracket project. But so show you how much I've learned.....I earned how to chew hell out of a pattern yesterday! Does that count for anything? Ha! You guys gotta realize...this stuff is ALL like brain surgery to me.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

"how to chew hell out of a pattern yesterday" = yep that just part of learning, that will get you 10 points on the chart of what or what not to do  once you get ot 50 points you will have it down ... 
And it's always best to learn the way of hard knocks...  the only thing you don't want is to get points for taking off body parts that will get you -50 points real quick.

Have fun but be safe, do it in your mind 1st. then hit the power switch if you don't recall it stop and power down. 
It's not brain surgery it's just step by step stuff 

Bj


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

*Shelf bracket report*

Learn't a couple more things today. Learned it is possible to chew up your work piece even when you have it fixed to a pattern! Work on top, pattern ( 1/4" hardboard,) trim bit with bearing. Little tiny DIG and jump and CHOMP and Holy Moly Oly. I did eight of them and they are okay I guess. I also learned that cheap #2 pine can actually FRACTURE sometimes from the stress of having a router bit trimming it down. Went through all 300 -feet of pine. Will start again in the morning with another 500 feet of Ash.....and maybe this time I will use a template guide in the table with a 1/2" straight bit.
If not satisfied by tomorrow night I will buy 1000' of oak and a 15 HP scroll saw! Thanks gents.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Birch, can you post some pics of your pattern, setup, and results?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

With this type of jig it works best with the brass guide in the router table plate, you can use the trim bit with the bearing on the bottom of the bit to track the pattern but the brass guide works the best, plus you can use a 1/4" to 1/2" straight bit. 

Bj 



Birch said:


> Learn't a couple more things today. Learned it is possible to chew up your work piece even when you have it fixed to a pattern! Work on top, pattern ( 1/4" hardboard,) trim bit with bearing. Little tiny DIG and jump and CHOMP and Holy Moly Oly. I did eight of them and they are okay I guess. I also learned that cheap #2 pine can actually FRACTURE sometimes from the stress of having a router bit trimming it down. Went through all 300 -feet of pine. Will start again in the morning with another 500 feet of Ash.....and maybe this time I will use a template guide in the table with a 1/2" straight bit.
> If not satisfied by tomorrow night I will buy 1000' of oak and a 15 HP scroll saw! Thanks gents.


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Joe: I'm still working on figuring out how to post pictures. Bob3, am gonna fool around some more today. This time I am gonna use the brass guide etc.etc. rather than the bearing bit etc. I am trying toLEARN as I complete a small project for my wife, who wants a shelf to run high up around the walls of a new screen porch. If I can't do them well enough I can always BUY them at $5 each. Hell, if it was just economics, I PASSED the price of eight brackets waaayyyy bavk there just in bits and wood! Ha!


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I too think you'd have better success using the router TABLE...
... everything is flat and stays flat... you just move it around the bit...

I thought I saw a thread "How to post pictures" etc. ... around here... should help. (?)

Good luck...


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

*Posting pictures or Attachments.*



Birch said:


> Joe: I'm still working on figuring out how to post pictures. Bob3, am gonna fool around some more today.
> 
> 
> > Birch, got to top left of page. Click on the "FORUM HELP' in red. This will take you to a help page. Click on "How Attachments Work". This will guide you thru how to post pictures. Good luck.


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