# Skis for Freud FT1702



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Hello All,
I'm new here, but I have been intrigued by the usage of router skis here on the forum. I had built something of a similar concept awhile back to use my old Craftsman router as a poor mans planer, but my rig was built on sliding rails and very cumbersome to use.

I am looking at building a set of skis for my newer Freud FT1702 router, but the base only has a single set of guide holes on the motor clamp side (perpendicular to the handles) but no matching set on the other side. I was wondering if anyone else had made skis for the Freud and how they got around this. It does not seam as if it would be stable without rods running through both sides of the frame.

My initial thought was to build a new rectangular base that is wider than the routers foot print with 90 degree risers made from 1x2 or alum. angle with holes drilled in them to run the rods through.

Any thoughts are appreciated. As I have been reading I have found a lot of wisdom and experience on this forum to learn from.

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Chris and welcome to the router forum.


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Chris,

My pc890 had the same issue so I built a simple sub base like you described out of scrap that I had laying around the shop.

I used 1 x 2 wooden risers for the rod guide blocks instead of the aluminum angle stock and the few times that I have actually used the setup it has worked out fine


----------



## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Very nice ski set up Greg.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Nice Setup Greg! That is very much inline with what I have been thinking for the base on the router itself. For the ski ends, I am working up a design slightly different that what I have seen posted here on the forums (see .pdf I have attached) that will use a (2) piece design with vertical rods for the height adjustment that will just use a set screw to lock in. My thought is that by dong it this way, I could very easily drill matching holes for the vertical rods into my router table top (removing the bottom portion of the skis), swap out my router insert with an insert with a fixed pin and use it as an overhead pin router.

I had also been experimenting over this past weekend with making insert plates out of 3/8" HDPE (white cutting boards). Just about as rigid as plexi (as far as I can tell), easy to mill once you get the hang of it and dirt cheap (I have been picking up cutting boards are the local $1 store that are just over 10"x14" for, well, $1!). Also very slick and the material is self healing. Plus at these prices, I can make several of them for different purposes. Almost disposable...

With the projects I have going on at work, it may take me several weeks to get all this put together, but I will keep you guys posted on how it turns out.


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

That's a very interesting concept Chris, I'm looking forward to feedback on how it works out for you.. by any chance are you a machinist? 

That's also a great tip about using the HDPE cutting boards,Thanks!


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks Dave..but after seeing your's I do have to say that NOBODYS ski setup is as nice as the one you made!!! :sold:




Dr.Zook said:


> Very nice ski set up Greg.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

gregW said:


> .. by any chance are you a machinist?


Nope, not a machinist. I'm a Technology Consultant, specifically in the Audio/Video industry; A.K.A- Geek for hire. It's a great job. I basically get to play with all the latest tech toys and tell people which things work together and which ones are going to be a PITA.

But I do like to tinker with what ever I can get my hands on...

Here are a couple of pictures of the 'practice' insert I cut last weekend. I found a great way to 'route' the stepped hole for the PC style bushing was to use a rotary burr chucked into my drill press.

-Chris


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

Nice job on the ski jig,,that should work great 
=======



gregW said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> My pc890 had the same issue so I built a simple sub base like you described out of scrap that I had laying around the shop.
> 
> I used 1 x 2 wooden risers for the rod guide blocks instead of the aluminum angle stock and the few times that I have actually used the setup it has worked out fine


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

Nice job on the sub plate 

May I suggest one thing,,the stock is great that you use(cutting board) but I would suggest you drill the hole out for the ring nut (pocket hole),,,you need all you can get to get it to stay in place...I would suggest the stock needs to be 1/4" thick of less for the pocket hole for the brass ring nut to sit in ( 2 1/2" in diam.) so you can get your fingers in to lock it down.. 


Note ,,it looks like in the picture,you have only one thread holding now in place..

=====




crussell said:


> Nope, not a machinist. I'm a Technology Consultant, specifically in the Audio/Video industry; A.K.A- Geek for hire. It's a great job. I basically get to play with all the latest tech toys and tell people which things work together and which ones are going to be a PITA.
> 
> But I do like to tinker with what ever I can get my hands on...
> 
> ...


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks Bob...it may not be pretty but it's worked out ok so far 




bobj3 said:


> Hi Greg
> 
> Nice job on the ski jig,,that should work great
> =======


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

OK Chris, I have to ask...how the heck did you make the hole with a rotary burr in your drill press???




crussell said:


> I found a great way to 'route' the stepped hole for the PC style bushing was to use a rotary burr chucked into my drill press.
> 
> -Chris


Is this picture close to what your ski jig concept is going to look like:


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

gregW said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> My pc890 had the same issue so I built a simple sub base like you described out of scrap that I had laying around the shop.
> 
> I used 1 x 2 wooden risers for the rod guide blocks instead of the aluminum angle stock and the few times that I have actually used the setup it has worked out fine


Thanks for posting that Greg, I have a PC 690 and it doesn't have the holes that everybody else's' router has to attach to router skis, so now I can make one too. 

By the way, where did you get the metal rod that the skis's slide on?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Paulo

It's no big deal but
Just one more way to use your PC router on/for a ski jig 

======


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Paulo
> 
> It's no big deal but
> Just one more way to use your PC router on/for a ski jig
> ...


Thanks Bob for another helpful post. I got a couple rolls of 1" wide UHMW tape that would probably make a sled like that slide easier.

Not sure if it's the angle of the pics or what, but the bottom view looks like each L-angle has 2 screws holding it while the top view looks like there is only one nut on each angle. Is one hole threaded or what?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Noob

It's not the angle it's a error I made,both are tap out to 1/4-20 (7/16 hex) and I didn't leave room for the nuts just one would fit so I said it should hold with just the one nut locking it in place...they do make a smaller OD nut but I only had two of them ( 3/8" hex) on hand..

I should get some more GOOD UHMW tape, I have put marks on the top by moving it around it's not a bit deal on the MDF top but it would make it nice with some tape...I did try some at 1st. but it would not stick to well to the MDF stock it's wanted to peel off and roll under it and lift the ski up and miss up the cut.


======



Noob said:


> Thanks Bob for another helpful post. I got a couple rolls of 1" wide UHMW tape that would probably make a sled like that slide easier.
> 
> Not sure if it's the angle of the pics or what, but the bottom view looks like each L-angle has 2 screws holding it while the top view looks like there is only one nut on each angle. Is one hole threaded or what?


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> May I suggest one thing,,the stock is great that you use(cutting board) but I would suggest you drill the hole out for the ring nut (pocket hole),,,you need all you can get to get it to stay in place...I would suggest the stock needs to be 1/4" thick of less for the pocket hole for the brass ring nut to sit in ( 2 1/2" in diam.) so you can get your fingers in to lock it down..


Great suggestion Bob J. I think I will step it out on the back the same as I did on the front for the insert to sit flush.



gregW said:


> OK Chris, I have to ask...how the heck did you make the hole with a rotary burr in your drill press???


I drilled a 1/4" pilot hole at the center point of the plate. I then used a hole saw slightly larger than the diameter of the insert and drilled just to the depth of the step of the insert. I followed with a smaller hole saw the size of the threaded portion of the insert all the way through the base. I then chucked in the rotary burr, locked the drill press so that the bottom of the rotary burr was at the depth of the step and ground away (very slowly and with the DP set on 500RPM) until I got to the outer ring that was stared with the larger home saw. Left a nice clean step that look like it was routed in. I'll try to take some pictures on the next plate I make. I want to make a standard 9"x12" plate in the next few weekends.



gregW said:


> Is this picture close to what your ski jig concept is going to look like:


That is exactly it! Great drawing. My thought was that with the vertical poles, I could remove the bottom half of the skis, drill matching holes into the top of my router table and use it as an overhead pin router also.
I had also toyed with the idea of using a third centered vertical THREADED rod on each ski for height adjustment, like a table vise.

-Chris


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

Here's a small tip,put the holes saw back in the box and use your bits for that job..in that way you can make a plate that will work for many,many jobs not just one..
here's link, see below. but use the 1 1/2" guides so the bits can spin in the hole/plate..

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/10818-bogydave.html
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=41778&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1

==========


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

BobJ's tutorial on drilling for the large guides works great. i used his advice and method several times now. it is easy to do, you just have to be very accurate with your centering.

since doing this, i have become a believer in the large guides even with my limited experience.

thanks to BobJ for this fine set of instructions. i think often after looking at his jigs and advice, now why didnt i think of that,lol


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank's for the tip on the larger inserts BobJ. They are on my 'want' list (as well as a larger Forestner bit set that gets me larger than 1"...) once the economy improves a bit.

In the mean time, I am stuck making due with the tools that I have, scrap materials from Job sites and 99 cent cutting boards... You would be amazed at the stuff I have built from scrap over the years (wish I had pictures...). Years ago, when I was a young E3 in the Navy living in Japan, newly wed and with a baby on the way, I built our entire living room set as well as my daughters crib from some scrap 2x4's and plywood from public works on base for the framing tops, and I used fish crates (like our old wooden orange crates) slat by slat for the outside 'skin'. Went through a lot of bleach on that project! I was young and stupid and so proud of what I had built. The wife hatted it, and unfortunately it was too heavy to move on with us when we transferred out of Japan, so it ended up getting left behind. When we got to Hawaii, I had the whole new world of metal and plastic scrap opened up to me from the ship yard at Pearl Harbor. A six pack and you could get those boys to cut you just about anything! I had an old Suzuki Sidekick we called our 'Cheap Jeep' that I did a 2" body lift and 3" suspension lift on using all scrap materials from the ship yard. That was fun!

This was a practice plate to get familiar with working with the HDPE material, but I will definitely plan ahead for the larger guides when I make the final. Thanks again for the tip!

-Chris


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Enco sells the 1/2" drill rod and also the all thread at a pretty good price... you can also get them in 3ft lengths at the home depot out here. 

Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies



Noob said:


> By the way, where did you get the metal rod that the skis's slide on?


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

There you go..where there's a will there's a way! I would have never even thought of trying that! Thanks



crussell said:


> I drilled a 1/4" pilot hole at the center point of the plate. I then used a hole saw slightly larger than the diameter of the insert and drilled just to the depth of the step of the insert. I followed with a smaller hole saw the size of the threaded portion of the insert all the way through the base. I then chucked in the rotary burr, locked the drill press so that the bottom of the rotary burr was at the depth of the step and ground away (very slowly and with the DP set on 500RPM) until I got to the outer ring that was stared with the larger home saw. Left a nice clean step that look like it was routed in.


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

gregW said:


> Enco sells the 1/2" drill rod and also the all thread at a pretty good price... you can also get them in 3ft lengths at the home depot out here.
> 
> Enco - Guaranteed Lowest Prices on Machinery, Tools and Shop Supplies


Thanks for the link, will try Home Depot first. 

By the way, do you clamp the router attachment tight on the rods and move the whole unit back and forth over the part being routed or is the router attachment loose on the rods and you slide it back and forth on the rods?


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Your welcome..I think Home Depot only charges a few dollars more.
I clamp it down tight on the rods.



Noob said:


> Thanks for the link, will try Home Depot first.
> 
> By the way, do you clamp the router attachment tight on the rods and move the whole unit back and forth over the part being routed or is the router attachment loose on the rods and you slide it back and forth on the rods?


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

crussell said:


> I had also toyed with the idea of using a third centered vertical THREADED rod on each ski for height adjustment, like a table vise.-Chris


the threaded rod sounds like a good idea 

it would be easy to just have it thread into the lower piece and then have clearance holes in the upper piece and use a couple of threaded knobs to adjust the height...the lower one to raise and lower and the upper one to lock it in place.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Greg, your drawings are amazing (what are you using to make these so quickly?)! And your interpretation of my concept is spot on! Seeing your drawings duplicate how I envision it just reaffirms to me that this is do-able. I really think that this concept would be extremely flexible in what can be done with it.

Now I just need to get the time and materials... I was actually thinking about using 1" Delrin blocks for the 'runner' on the skis; Delrin can be tapped very easy for studs to lock the rods, is very machinable and is slicker than ice (and I can get small scraps of it pretty easily). Maybe (2) laminated pieces of 1/2" MDF for the upper portion of the skis? I am undecided on using CRS or aluminum rod. I prefer working with aluminum, but concerned about rigidity; I planned on using 5/8" rod.

-Chris


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

crussell said:


> I was actually thinking about using 1" Delrin blocks for the 'runner' on the skis; Delrin can be tapped very easy for studs to lock the rods, is very machinable and is slicker than ice (and I can get small scraps of it pretty easily). Maybe (2) laminated pieces of 1/2" MDF for the upper portion of the skis? I am undecided on using CRS or aluminum rod. I prefer working with aluminum, but concerned about rigidity; I planned on using 5/8" rod.
> 
> -Chris


Chris, I would definitely use cold rolled or drill rod instead of the aluminum rods. the price isn't much different but the steel will be much more rigid..and if you are planning on using set screws or threaded knobs to lock the router in place it will end up galling the aluminum rod over time.The steel is easy to cut with a cutoff wheel or even a hack saw if you don't have access to a chop saw. 

I sort of assumed that you were making the end pieces out of aluminum or steel when you posted the PDF file. I don't have any experience with the delrin so I don't know how well it will work, but I think you may have a couple of issues with making the parts out of mdf with your current design. The wall thickness is going to be pretty thin between the 5/8" rod and the edge of the part and I think you will also need to use some type of threaded inserts for the set screws so you will need to have enough material to accommodate those.

You might also want to consider leaving more material on the end piece to beef it up if you make it out of mdf...I think the more material you remove the weaker it becomes.


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

crussell said:


> Greg, your drawings are amazing (what are you using to make these so quickly?)! And your interpretation of my concept is spot on! Seeing your drawings duplicate how I envision it just reaffirms to me that this is do-able. I really think that this concept would be extremely flexible in what can be done with it.


I used the pdf file you posted and a cad program. I used to always sketch things out by hand but now it's a lot easier for me to just let the computer do all the work 

Like you said a drawing really makes a big difference when you are trying to figure out if something is going to work or not. 

Google sketchup is a free program that you can download and it is pretty easy to use once you get the hang of it.


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

gregW said:


> Chris, I would definitely use cold rolled or drill rod instead of the aluminum rods. the price isn't much different but the steel will be much more rigid..and if you are planning on using set screws or threaded knobs to lock the router in place it will end up galling the aluminum rod over time.The steel is easy to cut with a cutoff wheel or even a hack saw if you don't have access to a chop saw.
> 
> I sort of assumed that you were making the end pieces out of aluminum or steel when you posted the PDF file. I don't have any experience with the delrin so I don't know how well it will work, but I think you may have a couple of issues with making the parts out of mdf with your current design. The wall thickness is going to be pretty thin between the 5/8" rod and the edge of the part and I think you will also need to use some type of threaded inserts for the set screws so you will need to have enough material to accommodate those.
> 
> You might also want to consider leaving more material on the end piece to beef it up if you make it out of mdf...I think the more material you remove the weaker it becomes.


If material thickness is a concern, one could double-up the MDF like Bob did in this shot: LINK

Delrin can be cheaper than the other plastics, and HDPE would work just as good: HDPE LINK


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi gregW

I like the concept, but it looks like it would take some high end equipment to make one..you know what it's like to move something on parallel bars that are free on one end and then if you have 4 ,,WOW, it would take a hammer to get all to move free at the same time..jam time easy..  bushing would help but that would take some more high end machine equipment...

You and Chris need to come up with something that anyone can make and use,,without breaking the bank, the KISS way is very true for the ski jig.. 

The less parts you have is the KISS way I think..  it have seen so many jigs that someone will use just once and that's it...because it's so hard to use,many dovetail jigs do this all the time..

=====






gregW said:


> Chris, I would definitely use cold rolled or drill rod instead of the aluminum rods. the price isn't much different but the steel will be much more rigid..and if you are planning on using set screws or threaded knobs to lock the router in place it will end up galling the aluminum rod over time.The steel is easy to cut with a cutoff wheel or even a hack saw if you don't have access to a chop saw.
> 
> I sort of assumed that you were making the end pieces out of aluminum or steel when you posted the PDF file. I don't have any experience with the delrin so I don't know how well it will work, but I think you may have a couple of issues with making the parts out of mdf with your current design. The wall thickness is going to be pretty thin between the 5/8" rod and the edge of the part and I think you will also need to use some type of threaded inserts for the set screws so you will need to have enough material to accommodate those.
> 
> You might also want to consider leaving more material on the end piece to beef it up if you make it out of mdf...I think the more material you remove the weaker it becomes.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i will have to agree with BobJ. this thread seems maybe to belong in a metal working type atmosphere. i think here people will be looking for something they can build easily and use woodworking tools. this is just my humble opinion.


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Bobj3,

I don’t think that it would necessarily take high end equipment to make Chris’s design work.

If he makes sure that the table is square on his drill press and uses stop blocks and a fence when he drills the holes I think he can do a good job of making them all line up.

The rods are almost always either right on the money or even slightly undersized, and he can always open up the holes a little if necessary to keep the parts from binding….and even if he does decide that he needs to add bushings later on he can always pick up the existing holes on the drill press and open them up to accept bronze sleeve bearings at less than a dollar a hole.

So I’m not really sure what you mean by breaking the bank…I think that Chris said that he has access to a lot of excess and scrap materials, but even if he didn’t I think he could buy everything for under $30 as long as he makes his own threaded knobs! His design actually has fewer parts than the one you posted but he does have to take his time to make sure everything lines up.:yes4:

Now don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying that I could make this work, but Chris has already shown that he can make an accurate counter bore with a rotary file, so I am fairly confident that he can do it! :sold:

and if he does run into any problems making it work we can always try to help him out and the most he will be out is a few dollars worth of material.









bobj3 said:


> Hi gregW
> 
> I like the concept, but it looks like it would take some high end equipment to make one..you know what it's like to move something on parallel bars that are free on one end and then if you have 4 ,,WOW, it would take a hammer to get all to move free at the same time..jam time easy..  bushing would help but that would take some more high end machine equipment...
> 
> ...


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

levon said:


> i will have to agree with BobJ. this thread seems maybe to belong in a metal working type atmosphere. i think here people will be looking for something they can build easily and use woodworking tools. this is just my humble opinion.


I think some people may be a little smarter or capable than you give them credit for. On the one hand, I understand the K.I.S.S. principle, but part of the trip is not just the destination, but the journey itself. 

Don't get me wrong, I understand what has been said... kind of like using wedges instead of cams to clamp stuff down on the hold-down thingy. Someone may believe that putting 100 holes and counterbores for the t-nuts will discourage someone from making it, and someone else may believe it's a worthwhile step. Still someone else may instead choose to use rows of t-slots, but hopefully you get my drift.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Hey guys,

I appreciate everyone’s feedback, but I think this is getting seen by some as more complicated than it really is. This can actually be built using a couple of MDF blocks glued-and-screwed to thickness (as Noob suggested) or even using a couple of short lengths of 2x6. I had suggested that I am going to try use Delrin, but that is just because I can get scarp cutoffs and it the perfect material; but it may not be for everyone.

Greg- good call on the wall thickness with the 1” layout and MDF. I had originally thought of using 1/2" rod, but when I resized to the 5/8” I did not think off thickening my rough layouts. I also like your idea of removing the hand grip and moving the lower knob to the bottom to stiffen the frame.

BobJ / levon- this is actually very simple in construction; at least as I see it. Only tools required would be a saw and a drill press (even I hand drill would work if you have a real steady hand). I have attached another layout showing how it would be drilled first then cut from a single block. I hope this helps clarify that it should not be a difficult jig to build using standard materials.

I also believe in the K.I.S.S. principle (I also believe in the K.I.C.K principle (Keep It Cheap Kid)). On this particular project my feeling is that if I spend I little more time on the design and construction of the jig, it will be simpler and more flexible to use after it is built. I only have to make the jig once, but I plan to use it over and over…

The biggest advantages I see to this layout with the vertical rods and a single threaded rod for height adjustment over the standard layout for skis’ that use 2 slots is that (at least for me);
a.	It would be easier to set the height adjustment by having a single adjustment point on each ski, rather than having to make sure the rods were slide up evenly and tightened down on 2 separate slots on each side, and:
b.	I think with the threaded rod locking the height vertically, there is less chance of the height adjustment slipping under load. The center threaded rod would lock the height, where as with the slots the rods are locked horizontally by compression on the sides of the slots, but there is nothing to keep it from slipping up and down if you don't get it tight enough.

Assuming that the vertical holes were bored through in a single pass so that everything lines up, I don’t see any need for bushings. But as Greg mentioned, brass inserts can be had at the local ACE dirt cheap.

I am hoping this coming work week will be a bit slower so that I can try to put together a set of ends in the evenings. I will try to photo-document the process.

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I will try to keep you posted as I can get this put together. Keep sending the ideas my way.

-Chris


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Chris

Thanks for the drawing , but lets get down to drilling a LONG hole vert..

3/8" diam.is not to hard with one of the long 3/8" drill bits,but most don't have one on hand the norm, then for the 5/8" hole or any hole over 1/2" in diam.,, that can be a challenge for anything over 3" long the norm,you can flip it over and drill it from both sides(ends) but that's real challenge to get in on dead center...with each other..one could do it with a dado slots in a 2 parts,then glue it up if it's MDF/wood stock for the ski..but not a true 5/8" hole..

One could use a spur/auger bit but they don't drill true dead center hole the norm..


Chris ,I'm looking forward to seeing some snapshots how you do it the normal tools one has on hand..

===========


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Chris, it’s a great concept and I think that you are absolutely correct that it is not going to be overly complicated to produce the jig as designed. 

I would not really consider 4" to be a LONG hole...but I suppose that if you did have an issue achieving that depth with the drill bits you have you could always drill partially through, remove the runner, and then complete the hole.

I think that one of the points that Bob is trying to make is that it is important to ensure that the holes are parallel to each other and perpendicular to the base of the runner…and I think that would be very difficult to achieve with a hand drill.

I’m also looking forward to seeing how you end up making the jig. 

I don’t know what the “normal tools one has on hand” are…but if I were you I would use the best tool for the job that you have available to you. 



Bobj3,
There would be no limit to what any of us could make with the tools that you have on hand! 




bobj3 said:


> HI Chris
> 
> Thanks for the drawing , but lets get down to drilling a LONG hole vert..
> 
> ...


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Chris,

I don't know if you already have a bit to drill the 5/8" x 4" long holes but here's one that should work real good :yes4:

and it's only a little over $8 so you don't have to worry about breaking the bank 


Bosch B14609 5/8 X 3/8 Sh. Brad Pt. Drill Bit | AceToolOnline.com


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Here is one more way to get a little extra depth when using a forstner bit...


Buy Forstner Bit Extension, 1/2" x 4", Forstner Bit Extensions, Forstner and

forstner bit extension for only $6.99 and free shipping through 6/22


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Greg,
Thanks for the links. I hope to get some momentum on this over the fathers day weekend. I am not overly worried about the drilling out the holes myself; I have done it before and have a plan . I will be doing this on a DP, and though I don't recommend dong it with a hand drill, for someone with a very steady hand it could be done.

My method is very simple. I create a drilling template out of 3/4" MDF for the spacing of the holes. I screw the template to the top of the piece to be drilled and using a forstner bit lined up in the holes I drill as deep as I can (with my forstner bit I can get 2.5"). Once I have the hole drilled down I use an extension on the forstner bit to finish out the hole, or using the deep hole as a guide, I finish it out the last inch or so with either a spade bit or an auger. This concept can easily go off parallel for a really deep hole, but for 4" should not be a problem. For this jig, even if the bottom inch or so was drilled out slightly larger (to compensate for any run-out), it would not be a problem because the top 2.5" hole would be enough of a guide for the rod and would be parallel to the holes in the runner.

Absolute worse case scenario if someone had to drill this out with a portable, as long as it was pretty close, they could over drill the holes and use brass inserts ($1 at ACE) to bring it back to parallel.

Hope to secure some materials on Friday and get started on this Sat. morning.

-Chris


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

*Progress*

Well, I ended up having to stay home from work today with the kids, so I took advantage of the time and tried to make a little progress on this. I reworked my design slightly so that I could use materials I had on hand. So component list is this:

(4) 9" lengths of 3.5" x 5/8" MDF
(5) 9" lengths of 1.5" x 5/8" MDF
(4) lengths of 1/2" steel rod for vertical use
(2) pieces of 1/4" cutting board cut to 9" x 1.5"
(1) 9" x 9" square piece of cutting board for router base.

(2) lengths of 5/8" steel rod for horizontal use**
(2) lengths of threaded rod for height adjusters**
Misc knobs, threaded inserts and studs**
**I need to acquire these still

For the ski's:
I started off by cutting the drill jig to length using a miter box and hand saw and then moved onto the Drill press to drill out the 3 holes. For the center hole, I have drilled it out to 1/4" diameter. Still not sure what size threaded rod I will get for the height adjuster and this can easily be widened up later if need be.

I then went back to the miter saw and cut the four pieces for the upper portions of the Skis and clamped and glued them together as shown in the pictures.

While the glue was drying, I went back and cut the pieces of plastic for the bottoms of the runners. This was a slight design change for a few reasons. First is the only MDF I had on hand was the 5/8" which was not deep enough to seat the vertical rods in and still tighten them down with inserts. Also, the slickness of the plastic will allow the runners to slide easily over a table without marring it up. Not sure what the plastic is, definitely not HDPE or Delrin, but it is very smooth and workable. These will just be attached to the bottom of the runners with countersunk screws. I had originally wanted to make the runners out of a solid piece of Delrin, but have not had a chance to get any scrape, so I went with plan B...


Next step is to move on to drilling out the pieces. Should get to this in the next day or so.

-Chris


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Chris,
It looks like you are moving right along 

If you ever have trouble finding any materials or hardware you can get just about anything from McMaster-Carr, and their prices are usually as good or better than what you find at a hardware or big box store.

McMaster-Carr


They have a warehouse close to me so I always place my order online and then select “will call” at checkout, and they usually have my order ready for pickup within about 3 hours.

You can also download 2D and 3D models of most of the products they sell from their website. That’s were I got the cad file for the 3/8-16 threaded knobs that I used in the drawing of your concept that I posted.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Greg, It looks like the McMaster-Carr local to me is just around the corner is Santa Fe Springs. Are they a warehouse only or do they have a store front? I might swing by to just take a look around if they do.

Doesn't look like I will get much done this weekend since it is poring down rain. Hopefully the weather clears and I can get some work time in tomorrow.

-Chris


----------



## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Chris,
There is no store front it’s only a warehouse. They are basically an industrial supplier so all that you can do at their facility is pickup your order. In fact your order will even be packaged for shipment from the warehouse when you pick it up at the will call desk. 

I have been doing business with them for about 20 years now and in that time they’ve never messed up an order and all of the products that I have received have been excellent quality. They are very efficient and It really is amazing considering the volume of business they do out of the facility! 





crussell said:


> Greg, It looks like the McMaster-Carr local to me is just around the corner is Santa Fe Springs. Are they a warehouse only or do they have a store front? I might swing by to just take a look around if they do.
> 
> Doesn't look like I will get much done this weekend since it is poring down rain. Hopefully the weather clears and I can get some work time in tomorrow.
> 
> -Chris


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

*Another change and progress*

Happy fathers day to all you dads out there!

Well, I had a problem with the older pieces of MDF I was using being soft. They were just flaking apart. So I rethought things a bit, and going back to what BobJ was saying about being easy to make by anyone and the concerns about drilling the deeper holes, I rethought the process. Here's what I came up with:

I replaced all of the MDF with .75"h x 1.5"w x 9" long pieces of poplar, we are using (6) lengths per side ($.59 ft at Home Depot at 9:57pm last night- a 12' length was long enough). Each runner will use (2) pieces, and (4) lengths in each upper.

I made a little clamping jig (pic 1) using some of the discarded MDF to hold each piece under the drill press. Using the drilling template I previously made, I attached it to the first piece of poplar with double sided tape. I lined this up for the center hole and clamped the jig to the DP table. Now I just had to swap out each of the 12 boards 1 at a time in the jig and the holes would be true on every board. See pic 2. Rinse and repeat for the larger outside holes.

Once all the pieces were drilled with all 3 holes, I tested running the rods through nice and smooth. I used (2) threaded inserts to lock the bottom of the larger rods into the bottom piece of the runner and used a Tee Nut between the 2 pieces of the runner to thread the center rod into (I used a forstner bit to slightly countersink the Tee nut so the pieces went flush together. Using the threaded rod and a couple of clamps I glued up the first of the two sides, I will have to wait until this sets to finish up the other. I still need to cut out a small channel for the lower adjustment knobs once the glue dries and also mount the plastic sliders. (Pic 3)

Note, I have not yet drilled the holes for the horizontal rods. I haven't decided if I want to stick with the 1/2" I used on the vertical rods, or bump it up to 5/8" as I originally planned. The 1/2" rod does not appear to have much deflection, but I may use the 5/8" to play it safe.

I'll follow up with more pics as the glue dries and the rest of the assembly is completed.

-Chris


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

*Left Ski Finished!*

OK, except for drilling holes for the horizontal rods and cleaning up with a sander, the Left side is finished!


-Chris


----------



## tprofera (Jun 29, 2008)

Lots of good info here.


----------



## crussell (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks tprofera! I have not abandoned the project, I have just been to consumed with work and unexpected business trips to make any progress past my last post. Everything remains sitting on my workbench staring at me daily ready to be finished as soon as life slows down a bit...

-Chris


----------



## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

crussell said:


> Thanks tprofera! I have not abandoned the project, I have just been to consumed with work and unexpected business trips to make any progress past my last post. Everything remains sitting on my workbench staring at me daily ready to be finished as soon as life slows down a bit...
> 
> -Chris


I know how that is ...... This So Cal life just seems to take all your time. 
Been working on the same project for a year seems like when I think I'm going to get some time work or something else comes and takes my free time.

Hey Southern California slow down a bit OK......:shout:


----------

