# Track Saws



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Before doing some research on track saws, I'll admit I never understood why any would actually want/need a track saw for woodworking?

I always thought Track Saws were primarily designed for contractors cutting long mitres in kitchen counter tops. 

I've watched dozens of videos woodworking sites, Twitter and YouTube. The vast array of quite impressive projects you can produce using a track saw. 

I also thought Kreg's solution to allow circular saws to run on track would potentially make track saws irrelevant. 

I doubt you could ever get the same speed, performance or accuracy using a circular saw on a tracks. The blade on most circular saws are a source of added vibration and tear out. 

Festool was one of the only companies making Track saws a few years ago. They were off the charts pricey. 

With Triton, Makita, Bosch and Dewalt, etc... making ,track saws there's a lot of great options outside of Festool. 

Triton newest revision of their track saw is very refined and gives the Festool Track Saw a run for it's money with the quality of their current design. 

I would never considered a track saw before seeing how the track saws could be used on more advanced projects. I always felt my Table Saw and Circular Saw had me covered. 

I've seen the light and will probably buy a Track Saw within the next year or two.

What do you guys think of the track saws? Do you think they are worthwhile or do you feel there's other options that work just as well for less money?


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

use the search function here..

Router Forums - Search Results


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I already had a Fe$tool router and there vacuum system , so I broke down and bought there track saw .
I agree , there are others out there , and I'm sure just as good .
I wish I had known about track saws before I bought my table saw, as I never would have gone with a huge 53" fence on my table saw , and instead there 36" fence , saving me room .
The track saw for me is far better for breaking down sheet goods than trying to muscle them on my table saw , and I get far more accurate cuts . The track saw is especially helpful when things are out of square . 
The owner of Windsor Plywood tells me he sold his jointer as he gets better results with his track saw . Can't verify that one though.

I have one Fe$tool track that has holes in it . It works on my track saw but it also fits a guide that attaches to my router , and can be used to install those holes for shelving pins . 

Unfortunately the tracks are stupid expensive , as I want add a 10 footer , and it's $400


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

It depends entirely on what type of woodworking you do. I bought the T75 years ago to cut some butcher block countertops for our kitchen remodel. It was the only saw that had the depth of cut I needed, the counter blanks were too large to safely cut on the table saw. I truly thought that the saw would be a "one off" and I would sell it after I was done. Then I discovered that I could use the saw for the sink cut outs, and the uses kept piling up. I use it to help break down the rough lumber I like to use. I hate trying to horse a 3/4 sheet of ply through the table saw, and being able to accurately cut ply, with no secondary cuts is invaluable to me. When I built my shop, the only 2 saws I had available were my miter saw and the track saw. Took me 18 months to get it done, but I never felt a need to dig through my storage that had the rest of my tools. In short I use the track saw for almost every project.
The added benefit to Festool is the "system" it creates. I use the tracks with my router all the time. If you can't tell I am a fan, and even though I am just a hobby woodworker, the saw and tracks have paid for themselves several times.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bob I'm amazed how well the dust collection on the T75 works . One time I used it without being hooked up to its vacuum , and wow what a mistake . 
I am so impressed with FesTools dust collection, that I sold my Makita Miter saw and bought Festools instead . It was over 2K after tax , but well worth it imo . I use it in the house with very little issues dust wise , and it has a few unique features that I haven't seen before.
Next FesTool on my list is there tool used for installing Dominos


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I popped for the Triton track saw while at Rockler a couple of weeks ago. There were a couple of factors. First was a ragged cut on some BB ply using my usual method. I just won't horse a sheet of BB through the table saw anymore. Second, I use the 60x60 inch sheets, and the other saws only offer 54 inch and 199+ inch tracks. Triton offers the 54, but also a set of 2, 27 inch tracks you can join. This give me 81 inches of track. A manageable length with plenty of room to clamp (I know they have gooey bottom layers, but I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy). My 4 inch DC has a connector for my 35mm hose that connects to the Triton. BTW, Triton has a pretty decent dust collection system itself. The other deciding factor for me is the quality and thoughtful design of Triton products. Finally, as great as Festools are--and they are great--they are just onreasonably high priced for me. But Festool would probably come with a divorce in my household. 

And I like the gold color better than the pale green. How's that for shallow?:wink:


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

> I've seen the light and will probably buy a Track Saw within the next year or two.


What? How about Saturday? :surprise::grin::grin::grin:

Mine is a cheepie, but still gets the job done.

Here's a thought. Say you have a board that is bowed. Simply line the track and rip a straight edge! :smile: Now you have a board you can work with. Been there, done that.

Also, I use the track saw mostly to break down sheet good so I can handle them safely on the table saw.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> I popped for the Triton track saw while at Rockler a couple of weeks ago. There were a couple of factors. First was a ragged cut on some BB ply using my usual method. I just won't horse a sheet of BB through the table saw anymore. Second, I use the 60x60 inch sheets, and the other saws only offer 54 inch and 199+ inch tracks. Triton offers the 54, but also a set of 2, 27 inch tracks you can join. This give me 81 inches of track. A manageable length with plenty of room to clamp (I know they have gooey bottom layers, but I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy). My 4 inch DC has a connector for my 35mm hose that connects to the Triton. BTW, Triton has a pretty decent dust collection system itself. The other deciding factor for me is the quality and thoughtful design of Triton products. Finally, as great as Festools are--and they are great--they are just onreasonably high priced for me. But Festool would probably come with a divorce in my household.
> 
> And I like the gold color better than the pale green. How's that for shallow?:wink:


The Triton has a router adapter and relatively econmical miter gate. Triton has surpassed the Makita in overall flexibility and accessories. 

Dewalt has a good track saw but they made every propriety. 

There's dozens of 3 party accessories available for the Triton, Makita and Festool. 

I have look at the types of projects I'm doing. The Triton has the edge over the Festool for miter and bevel cuts more common in furniture design. 

The top of the line Festool has the performance with thick cuts that would be impossible. I don't have any projects that will require it. 

A lot word working magazines needs redo their tests to include the newest version of the Triton. I would hold it's own against the Festool 55. 

I'm slowly buying the Router Incra Table a piece of two at a time from Amazon.

I think the track saw will make life easier when breaking down the hardwood plywood for the interior of the cabinet and drawers. 

My Dewalt 7491 Table Saw can handle 32 inches. It works well with fir or birch plywood. 

I couldn't image trying to break down a large piece of heavy oak, maple, or walnut plywood with a 7491's tiny table top.

That's were the track saw comes to the recuse. 

I keep reading post about guys modifying circular saw for the job. Most circular saws are contractor grade and would make a huge mess out of any laminate or veneers.


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

I should have been more specific in my first post. When I bought my track saw, Festool was the only brand available. I think any track saw is better than none. I used a circular saw and a piece of ply as a guide for years, and it worked fine for most projects. I found using a circular saw for plunge cuts difficult and unsafe, and that is one area that makes a track saw stand out. Dust collection is another. If I was in the market today, I would definately consider other brands.


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

A local cabinet shop cuts countertops with a sliding miter saw set at 45 degrees. Never saw a track saw used for countertops- used to sell cabinetry and countertops.


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

Bought the Makita a couple of months ago for a special order making table tops for Circle K (long story). I'm constantly amazed how you get a PERFECT cut using the track saw, and it's so easy to use. Makes me wonder why I was using that 30+ year old circular saw all of those years.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I just noticed my post wasn't quite clear about tracks for the Triton and my purchase. I knew the Festool track was near $400. At Rockler, the new Triton plunge/track saw was on sale ($305) The long track was $88 and the 2=27 inch tracks (a good reason to get the Triton) were just about the same.

By connecting the 54 and one 27 ingh track and you have 81 inches of track, enough to make a 60 inch cut with room to spare, plus room for clamps. The other saws sell 54 and 108 inch, which is just too long to be manageable (most ceilings are shorter than that). With the Triton tracks, you can build that length when you need it. I don't use cruddy ply anymore, and that's all 4x8 (96 inch long).

I have a Triton TRA001 that is a superb tool, and I've been looking at their other tools at Rockler. Really nice stuff, and clearly thinking differently about tools and how they should function. I think Festool takes the same, out-of-the-box approach. 

I had thought about the Makita and checked it out-good reviews. The DeWalt, well, I don't buy DeWalt anymore. I looked for a Bosch unit, mentioned in the first post, but the search turned up nothing.

I am curious about whether Triton has an accessory that would allow mounting a Bosch 1617 on, and that would run in the track? I just emailed for information on that and will post when they reply. I did find something like this in their list of router track accessories.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> I have a Triton TRA001 that is a superb tool, and I've been looking a their other tools at Rockler. Really nice stuff, and clearly thinking differently about tools and how they should function. I think Festool takes the same, out-of-the-box approach.
> 
> I had thought about the Makita and checked it out-good reviews. The DeWalt, well, I don't buy DeWalt anymore. I looked for a Bosch unit, mentioned in the first post, but the search turned up nothing.


I bought the Triton electric planer for flattening the joints when I glued up the body segments for my turtle planters - what had been a tedious job using block plane and Surform became a 5 minute job with the Triton. I looked at the reviews where they talked about the difficulty in operating the on/off switch, but I had no problems. As you said, Triton makes some nice, solid tools.

I was/am looking at the Sommerfeld mortise and tenon bit set for making cabinets, thinking that the P-C in my router table may not be up to heavy use cutting the joints and thinking I'd replace it with the big Triton - I'd have to buy another plate (and sell my Bench Dog lift which has worked well for many years) but I'm reading that the Triton will fit in the Rockler collection box so may go ahead with that when the time comes.

I have the Makita track saw, absolutely no complaints so far. I don't know about the Triton track, but the Makita is compatible with the Festool (I use the Makita saw on both Makita and Festool tracks). If the Triton is also compatible, I would highly recommend the GRS-16 square made by TSO Products

https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-guide-rail-squares/ 

This clamps to the back edge of the Festool/Makita tracks and gives perfect 90° cross-cuts when breaking down plywood sheets. A little pricey, but it seems absolutely fool-proof and perfectly square cuts so far. The only negative is sliding the track in place while fighting the anti-slip strips on the bottom of the track - I've been considering removing them and replacing with a couple of strips of the cut line tape to keep the bottom even.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Knothead47 said:


> A local cabinet shop cuts countertops with a sliding miter saw set at 45 degrees. Never saw a track saw used for countertops- used to sell cabinetry and countertops.


I think people are talking about the benifts of track saws are talking about solid wood countertops. 

Most cabinet shops are selling MDF laminated counter tops. A Miter Saw with a zero clearance insert, circular saw or Radial arm saw should handle MDF countertops without any problems.

Triton should release a 1500 model with more guts for power users. The Triton's biggest let down is the lack of guts on the 1400 for thicker cuts.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

In most real world testing, if you install a quality Infinity or Freud blade, all the track saws will produce equal quality of work. 

The vast majority of hobbyist wood workers would be wasting their money on the Festool track saws. Festool track saws are designed for people using them for contract or production work. 

The average home wood worker is just not putting enough man hours in to justify buying a Festool over a Makita Track saw. You're not going to get a return on your investment for dropping the extra coin for the Festool version without the right project or if you're making not money with the equipment.

It you're making money with your trade, it's Festool or Maffel all the way to the bank.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; I'm a little confused(?).
Are you saying there is no Bosch track saw, or you weren't able to find one?
https://bethepro.com/tag/bosch-track-saw/


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

St4eve, I'm not sure what would be the difference in cutting countertops- wood or laminate with MDF base.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

John; the biggest issue in cutting laminate ctr.tops is getting a perfect chip free edge on your cuts. It has to be PERFECT every time. On a mitred joint it just screams out if there's any defects.
And no, I haven't mastered it.  
_"The blade, the blade!"_


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Knothead47 said:


> St4eve, I'm not sure what would be the difference in cutting countertops- wood or laminate with MDF base.


There's no grain in MDF. It's very hard to chip or tear out as long as the saw blade is sharp.

Melamine is not concern for me. I refuse to use toxic Melamine partical boards on any projects. Melamine is just pure junk plastered over flimsy particle board. 

The whole point of wood working project is to make a higher quality product than the stuff at IKEA.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well I think the point of woodworking should be for the enjoyment of it. If you are making something to save money or make it better than ready made you may be spinning your wheels.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)




----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Slick, Gene; what does the guide on the bottom look like?


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> In most real world testing, if you install a quality Infinity or Freud blade, all the track saws will produce equal quality of work.
> 
> The vast majority of hobbyist wood workers would be wasting their money on the Festool track saws. Festool track saws are designed for people using them for contract or production work.
> 
> ...


Actually, the Festool TS 55 is woefully under powered and the Makita is better even if you do make money in a trade. I know, I purchased and used all the track saw for months in my shop. The Makita used with Festool tracks is the saw I have left.

The Festools and Mafell are more refined, but until the Festool TS 55 gains about 2 amps forget it. So for me its the Festool TS75 for deeper cuts that need more power and the Makita for everything else. And though I can purchase any tool I want for my shop I still haven't seen the need for the Mafell. The Mafell is luxury, but it wont make me any more money. Someday I might go there because I feel I deserve it as it is the best of the bunch, but as stated it cuts nice straight line like the rest of the track saws, albeit with more finesse.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Tom; I'm a little confused(?).
> Are you saying there is no Bosch track saw, or you weren't able to find one?
> https://bethepro.com/tag/bosch-track-saw/


My initial search returned "no results found." According to this, they make one, but it is not for sale in North America. So for many of us, it just isn't available. I noted in the link that the Canadian who bought one had to do some electrical modificaitons to use it. He did report pretty good performance. 

I don't like to regret a purchase after the fact--it's pointless. It is likely that later versions will have improvements, and those changes are generally not worth chasing. I tend to like second and third versions of products I buy. They are generally pretty good.

Being able to handle the tool itself before buying is important too.


----------



## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

I bought the DeWalt around Father's Day. I've used it a few times since then, it does the job much better than the circular saw I was using before. The biggest improvement is in dust collection. the circular saw always spit sawdust into my face, hands and every where else.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> Actually, the Festool TS 55 is woefully under powered and the Makita is better even if you do make money in a trade. I know, I purchased and used all the track saw for months in my shop. The Makita used with Festool tracks is the saw I have left.
> 
> The Festools and Mafell are more refined, but until the Festool TS 55 gains about 2 amps forget it. So for me its the Festool TS75 for deeper cuts that need more power and the Makita for everything else. And though I can purchase any tool I want for my shop I still haven't seen the need for the Mafell. The Mafell is luxury, but it wont make me any more money. Someday I might go there because I feel I deserve it as it is the best of the bunch, but as stated it cuts nice straight line like the rest of the track saws, albeit with more finesse.


The TS75 is the only Festool track saw worth buying. At difference of $150 Canadian with a 1400 MM track, it's a no brainer if you're going to plunk down the coin for the TS75.

The Makita is the better choice. I heard it hard to find straight Makita tracks. 

How well does the Makita work with the Festool Track?

Did you have to modify the Makita to fit the Festool track or does it fit perfectly into the Festool track?


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Not everyone can afford anything but the laminate counter tops. This shop I mentioned has been in business for years. They installed a new CT for me about 5 years ago. The company I worked for installed countertops and were cut without no chip out. If chip out was as bad as inferred, there would be a lot of scrap available in the dumpster or for router tables.
I have family members who have granite- not worth the $$$ IMHO.

Gene, great idea. I have some 48 inch pieces of T-track. Now I know what to do with them. They use a standard hex head 1/4-20 hex cap screw.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

DaninVan said:


> Slick, Gene; what does the guide on the bottom look like?


It's the matching insert, or "T Bar".








A couple bolts thru the stock holes in the base and, wing nuts hold it on.

Works very well for plywood and straight lining rough stock. No trimming at the TS necessary.
The track pictured is 8'. I made shorter versions for cross cuts.

No power issues with the Skil 77. No dust collection, either. Broom only.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

It's not like tracks saws are a new invention. They've been around since the 1920's in one form or another. 

This pic is from a Festo (Festool demo in 1964.)


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I like that, Gene! No way can the Saw slip out of the track. 
It even lessens the danger from a kickback (I've heard of this but never happened to me...  )


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Steven; is this a typo?
"I love to make pretty things for petty little things"


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> The TS75 is the only Festool track saw worth buying. At difference of $150 Canadian with a 1400 MM track, it's a no brainer if you're going to plunk down the coin for the TS75.
> 
> The Makita is the better choice. I heard it hard to find straight Makita tracks.
> 
> ...



No modification needed, the Makita works perfectly with the Festool tracks. Since I had the Festool saws and all their routers first I already had the Festool tracks so I never even used a Makita track. I sold both Festool TS 55 and 75 saws kep the Makita. I also sold the Festool OF1010 and OF1400 routers as well as the OF 2200 for me is the only Festool router worth having. I just hope they upgrade the thing soon its been a long time waiting for LED and some other refinements.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DaninVan said:


> Steven; is this a typo?
> "I love to make pretty things for petty little things"


It was a typo. That line would only make sense if you were dating Taylor Swift, Lindsey Lohan, Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry.:grin:


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> The TS75 is the only Festool track saw worth buying. At difference of $150 Canadian with a 1400 MM track, it's a no brainer if you're going to plunk down the coin for the TS75.
> 
> The Makita is the better choice. I heard it hard to find straight Makita tracks.
> 
> ...


No modification needed, the Makita works perfectly with the Festool tracks. Since I had the Festool saws and all their routers first I already had the Festool tracks so I never even used a Makita track. 

I sold both Festool TS 55 and 75 saws kept the Makita. I also sold the Festool OF1010 and OF1400 routers. The OF 2200 for me is the only Festool router worth having. I just hope they upgrade the thing soon it's been a long time waiting for LED and some other refinements.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> No modification needed, the Makita works perfectly with the Festool tracks. Since I had the Festool saws and all their routers first I already had the Festool tracks so I never even used a Makita track.
> 
> I sold both Festool TS 55 and 75 saws kept the Makita. I also sold the Festool OF1010 and OF1400 routers. The OF 2200 for me is the only Festool router worth having. I just hope they upgrade the thing soon it's been a long time waiting for LED and some other refinements.


I'm surprised you sold your TS75. Since it has a riving knife for solid wood cuts.

The only thing that sucks about the Makita is, "you can't find it in Canada as a standalone product. Your stuck paying an extra 100 for their 5 inch track.

I've been hoping Triton would release a beefier model above the 1400.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

The reason I sold the TS 75 is it's just to big and heavy for my weak hands, even on a track. And I dont cut hardwoods on a track. From my perspective I dont get the large track saw, as anything the TS 75 can do I can do better using another tool. BUT, I work in a shop not on a job-site. If I had to rip the odd 2" thick piece of Oak(which cant be very often on a jobsite) then the TS 75 saw would be fine. But unless I was gang ripping 4 sheets of plywood I just dont get the use for a TS 75. If I get a piece of 3" x 10" Wenge 8 feet long I am not using a track saw to process it, though the TS75 is powerful enough to do it.

I am sure there are guys that may have a need for a TS 75, me not really. Show me how a person uses a TS75 and in a shop setting I'll show you a far simpler way without a track saw. IMHO, track saws are plywood, laminate type processioning tools, not for hardwoods. Not to say the TS wont cut hardwoods it does it quite well. I only see the need for a TS 75 if a person cant have or get to all the other tools a full blown shop(even hobby shop) would have, like a nice table saw, bandsaw, etc, etc.

So for the guys that need a great, powerful, large, track saw, the TS 75 is a monster and works very, very well. for me the best of the bunch really. I just don't see a need for myself. I sold mine on the Festool forum a few years ago.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> The reason I sold the TS 75 is it's just to big and heavy for my weak hands, even on a track. And I dont cut hardwoods on a track. From my perspective I dont get the large track saw, as anything the TS 75 can do I can do better using another tool. BUT, I work in a shop not on a job-site. If I had to rip the odd 2" thick piece of Oak(which cant be very often on a jobsite) then the TS 75 saw would be fine. But unless I was gang ripping 4 sheets of plywood I just dont get the use for a TS 75. If I get a piece of 3" x 10" Wenge 8 feet long I am not using a track saw to process it, though the TS75 is powerful enough to do it.
> 
> I am sure there are guys that may have a need for a TS 75, me not really. Show me how a person uses a TS75 and in a shop setting I'll show you a far simpler way without a track saw. IMHO, track saws are plywood, laminate type processioning tools, not for hardwoods. Not to say the TS wont cut hardwoods it does it quite well. I only see the need for a TS 75 if a person cant have or get to all the other tools a full blown shop(even hobby shop) would have, like a nice table saw, bandsaw, etc, etc.
> 
> So for the guys that need a great, powerful, large, track saw, the TS 75 is a monster and works very, very well. for me the best of the bunch really. I just don't see a need for myself. I sold mine on the Festool forum a few years ago.


Although I would have loved to have bought a SawStop Table Saw, I ended up settling for the Dewalt 7491 Table Saw. 

It took a lot of tweaking to get to the DW 7491 to cut up to the standards expected for woodworking. It's doable with a proper zero clearance plate. 

I have test the 7491 to see how well it will perform on larger hardwood cuts before making a final decsion on the brand of tracksaw. If it's performing well, I'll get a Makita. If it stuggles with longer hardwood cuts, I'll cough up the extra coin for the Festool.

I wanted to test the DW 7491 on precision cuts this week, Huricane Irma is delying the shipment of blades I ordered from Infinity Tools.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have a 7491 and it works great for me.

In my tests I liked it best so I kept it, returned the others, with the Bosch being second best. I actually didn't like the bench top Sawstop as much as the fence on the DeWalt and at near double the cost I sent it right back. 

The DeWalt is so darn loud though, loudest of the bunch by a pretty fair margin. I have heard some people having issues being able to make glue rip type cuts with the 7491, but I have had no problems at all and I have DeWalt blade on the unit.

The DeWalt 7491RS is a nice bench-top saw, I have the very nice stand with it as well and I recommend it highly. It does what I need done when I don't use my larger cabinet saw(that happens to be in parts right now anyhow).


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

dovetail_65 said:


> The reason I sold the TS 75 is it's just to big and heavy for my weak hands, even on a track. And I dont cut hardwoods on a track. From my perspective I dont get the large track saw, as anything the TS 75 can do I can do better using another tool. BUT, I work in a shop not on a job-site. If I had to rip the odd 2" thick piece of Oak(which cant be very often on a jobsite) then the TS 75 saw would be fine. But unless I was gang ripping 4 sheets of plywood I just dont get the use for a TS 75. If I get a piece of 3" x 10" Wenge 8 feet long I am not using a track saw to process it, though the TS75 is powerful enough to do it.
> 
> I am sure there are guys that may have a need for a TS 75, me not really. Show me how a person uses a TS75 and in a shop setting I'll show you a far simpler way without a track saw. IMHO, track saws are plywood, laminate type processioning tools, not for hardwoods. Not to say the TS wont cut hardwoods it does it quite well. I only see the need for a TS 75 if a person cant have or get to all the other tools a full blown shop(even hobby shop) would have, like a nice table saw, bandsaw, etc, etc.
> 
> So for the guys that need a great, powerful, large, track saw, the TS 75 is a monster and works very, very well. for me the best of the bunch really. I just don't see a need for myself. I sold mine on the Festool forum a few years ago.


I wanted the 55 as I thought the 75 was a bit large and cumbersome, but after reading reviews about the weak arse motors in the 55 , I settled on the 75 . 
Wish FesTool would listen to there customers. 
That's a good point with the 2200 router , as for that kind of money you'd think they could implement an led light ? 
I was going to buy the 2200, but I'll wait till they get there crap together . Won't be holding my breath though .
I think I'll send FesTool an email to this thread , and see if they can learn anything . I really should have been an engineer for designing tools . 
Either that or , the people who design them should be required to use them . Maybe then they'd figure it out


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> I have a 7491 and it works great for me.
> 
> In my tests I liked it best so I kept it, returned the others, with the Bosch being second best. I actually didn't like the bench top Sawstop as much as the fence on the DeWalt and at near double the cost I sent it right back.
> 
> ...


It's part of the trade off with the 4791's open Cabinet design. You don't have dust trapped inside the body but you end up with more noise. 

The 7491 is the only 4800 RPM saw in it's price class. That makes it a bit louder. 

I was primarily looking at the Makita track saw to process the sheets down to sizes the DW 7491 can handle easily.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Gene Howe Using T track to guide the saw is a really great idea. For a lot of folks on tight budgets, it will make it very easy to make a perfectly straight cut. Don't forget that you can also reduce chipout and splintering by pressing on blue painter's tape on the cut line. A good blade also makes a huge difference in quality of cut. I am very, very happy with the Triton track saw, however, blue tape and my 18v DeWalt would have done a pretty good job as well. I just want the extra convenience. 

One of the things you give up with this kind of setup, however, is the track saw's zero clearance opening, although you could make one for Gene's setup as well, in fact a large plate could also hold the miter bar for the T track. The other thing is that the plunge function is affected by the blade guard, so plunge cuts would make me a little nervous. 

You won't get much dust collection with this setup., although I bet 20 bucks Gene will figure that out too. What makes the track saw work so well on dust control is that the sawdust kicks up into the blade enclosure where suction immediately removes it. 

It's amazing how much serious thinking goes on around here.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> @Gene Howe Using T track to guide the saw is a really great idea. For a lot of folks on tight budgets, it will make it very easy to make a perfectly straight cut. Don't forget that you can also reduce chipout and splintering by pressing on blue painter's tape on the cut line. A good blade also makes a huge difference in quality of cut. I am very, very happy with the Triton track saw, however, blue tape and my 18v DeWalt would have done a pretty good job as well. I just want the extra convenience.
> 
> One of the things you give up with this kind of setup, however, is the track saw's zero clearance opening, although you could make one for Gene's setup as well, in fact a large plate could also hold the miter bar for the T track. The other thing is that the plunge function is affected by the blade guard, so plunge cuts would make me a little nervous.
> 
> ...


How do you find the Triton track saw's performance. A lot reviewers criticize the Triton's lack of power vs the Makita and Festool 75.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> One of the things you give up with this kind of setup, however, is the track saw's zero clearance opening, although you could make one for Gene's setup as well, in fact a large plate could also hold the miter bar for the T track. The other thing is that the plunge function is affected by the blade guard, so plunge cuts would make me a little nervous.
> 
> You won't get much dust collection with this setup., although I bet 20 bucks Gene will figure that out too. What makes the track saw work so well on dust control is that the sawdust kicks up into the blade enclosure where suction immediately removes it.
> 
> It's amazing how much serious thinking goes on around here.


I have modified my saw by adding the dust pickup nozzle shown here. It picks up a fair amount of the sawdust, but you really need to add a piece of flexible clear plastic over the side of the blade to get the most benefit. The nozzle can be purchased from Eurekazone EZSMART Dust Port There are videos on the web site showing how to install the nozzle.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

DesertRatTom said:


> @Gene Howe Using T track to guide the saw is a really great idea. For a lot of folks on tight budgets, it will make it very easy to make a perfectly straight cut. Don't forget that you can also reduce chipout and splintering by pressing on blue painter's tape on the cut line. A good blade also makes a huge difference in quality of cut. I am very, very happy with the Triton track saw, however, blue tape and my 18v DeWalt would have done a pretty good job as well. I just want the extra convenience.
> 
> One of the things you give up with this kind of setup, however, is the track saw's zero clearance opening, although you could make one for Gene's setup as well, in fact a large plate could also hold the miter bar for the T track. The other thing is that the plunge function is affected by the blade guard, so plunge cuts would make me a little nervous.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the compliment, Tom.

I use a 40 tooth Tenryu blade on the Skill 77 and have never experienced chip out, even on laminates. 

I've performed plunge cuts in ply with my track. But, it's unhandy to do. The guard has to be held up out of the way with one hand while the other is on the trigger. Then, in order to stop the depth of cut, you have to stop the saw and set the depth lock, then continue. I don't consider it unsafe, just cumbersome. The saw plate is trapped in the track so, it can't wander.

As to dust collection, I just let the chips fall as they may, so to speak.:wink: I would rather sweep them up than have to fight any hoses.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Steven Owen said:


> How do you find the Triton track saw's performance. A lot reviewers criticize the Triton's lack of power vs the Makita and Festool 75.


Seems to be as good as my 18 v DeWalt, which is a DC drive, generally has more torque than an AC unit. I've not had much opportunity to cut much yet, just half inch BB ply. I'm recovering from a series of health challenges, but I still have 17 drawers demanding to be made, so I'll be putting this to the test, along with the new IBox jig. More on that soon.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

DesertRatTom said:


> Seems to be as good as my 18 v DeWalt, which is a DC drive, generally has more torque than an AC unit. I've not had much opportunity to cut much yet, just half inch BB ply. I'm recovering from a series of health challenges, but I still have 17 drawers demanding to be made, so I'll be putting this to the test, along with the new IBox jig. More on that soon.


Take care of yourself, Tom. The drawers can wait.
But, when you get around to them, your gonna love that I box. 
Will you use a table saw or router table?


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> Seems to be as good as my 18 v DeWalt, which is a DC drive, generally has more torque than an AC unit. I've not had much opportunity to cut much yet, just half inch BB ply. I'm recovering from a series of health challenges, but I still have 17 drawers demanding to be made, so I'll be putting this to the test, along with the new IBox jig. More on that soon.


That's unfortunate. Hopefully you'll feel better soon. 

Unless Triton comes up with a step up model, I'll probably end-up with a Makita or a TS 75 depending on my budget for next year. I've been surprised Triton has not designed a 6300 RPM version with a retractable riving knife . Their guide tracks are better than Makita's.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Gene Howe said:


> Take care of yourself, Tom. The drawers can wait.
> But, when you get around to them, your gonna love that I box.
> Will you use a table saw or router table?


Table saw version. :laugh2:

Been a weird last 10 -12 weeks. pneumonia, emergency appendectomy, transient ischemic attack and shingles to top it all off. Age is showing, I guess.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> Table saw version. :laugh2:
> 
> Been a weird last 10 -12 weeks. pneumonia, emergency appendectomy, transient ischemic attack and shingles to top it all off. Age is showing, I guess.


Sorry to hear this Tom , and I hope you bounce back soon . Remember , your not 65 anymore


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@Gene Howe

Which Tenryu blade do you use? I was looking on Carbide Processors' web site and couldn't find a full-kerf 40 T Tenryu blade listed. With my old guide - a strip of 1/4" tempered Masonite with a fence, I used an Oldham 40 T blade, kerf around .110 as I recall, which gave super smooth cut, both rip and cross-cut. I went looking for a replacement but apparently they stopped making that blade. I'm using a 40T Diablo on the saw shown in the photo but it gives inconsistent cuts, and I'm thinking that the thin kerf may have a lot to do with it. I ordered a blade made by FS Tool (Canada), 40T and .115" kerf, just shipped today and I'm looking forward to testing it out.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Steven Owen said:


> That's unfortunate. Hopefully you'll feel better soon.
> 
> Unless Triton comes up with a step up model, I'll probably end-up with a Makita or a TS 75 depending on my budget for next year. I've been surprised Triton has not designed a 6300 RPM version with a retractable riving knife . Their guide tracks are better than Makita's.


This discussion has been very helpful and informative for all of us interested in this tool. I did notice the Triton tracks are really beefy. In general they seem to be very useful tools. My shop is split, most cutting and joining tools are in an outside shop. But the wood prep is out in the garage. This gives me accurate cutting capability in the garage that I didn't have before. There's just no way I can horse those ply sheets around the table saw.

What hasn't been discussed is what options there are, and arguments for different blade options. Also info about the arbors. I like the blade just fine, but I'm always willing to install the very best blade I can find. It's what's doing the work.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> This discussion has been very helpful and informative for all of us interested in this tool. I did notice the Triton tracks are really beefy. In general they seem to be very useful tools. My shop is split, most cutting and joining tools are in an outside shop. But the wood prep is out in the garage. This gives me accurate cutting capability in the garage that I didn't have before. There's just no way I can horse those ply sheets around the table saw.
> 
> What hasn't been discussed is what options there are, and arguments for different blade options. Also info about the arbors. I like the blade just fine, but I'm always willing to install the very best blade I can find. It's what's doing the work.


Infinity has the best option for people using the Triton, Makita, and Dewalt track saws.

They released a new Track Master blade that's 165 MM. It's superior to the Triton and Makita blades. You don't need to use the 160 MM blades anymore to upgrade your blade.

There's no need to throw off your gauge by putting a 160 MM blade. Using 160 MM will prevent the scoring feature in the saw from working. The scoring feature is the primary reason for the 165 MM blade.

https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-b...ge-cutting-track-saws/track-master-saw-blades


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That sure is an expensive blade. I hope it's nice, I just ordered one. With shipping it cost me 70.00 for the Makita version, I normally pay 15.00 to 40.00 for a blade, I'll soon find out what the extra money gets me.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Steven Owen Wow! Ask and you shall receive. Thanks for the link. I like infinity blades and the listing clarifies the difference in size for different saws. 

There are two sizes, each fits specific saws.:
The 160mm Track Master Blade (item 007-001) is sized to fit the following brands of Track Saw:

Festool
Grizzly
Shop Fox

The 165mm Track Master Blade (item 007-005) is sized to fit the following brands of Track Saw:

Triton
DeWalt
Makita

Here agains is the link: https://www.infinitytools.com/saw-b...ge-cutting-track-saws/track-master-saw-blades


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> That sure is an expensive blade. I hope it's nice, I just ordered one. With shipping it cost me 70.00 for the Makita version, I normally pay 15.00 to 40.00 for a blade, I'll soon find out what the extra money gets me.


At $70 US, it's in the middle for price range. There's a lot of blades that cost 2-3 times as much.

It's perfectly balanced, nickel coated, with a secondary core to deaden the blade so there's no noticeable vibration. It's significantly better built than the OEM blades that come with the saws. 

As much as I'd want to complain about the $70 USD, $95 Canadian, if you slapped a Freud or Festool logo on it you'd be paying $140 US for the same thing.


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I was going through all the posts to see what is said regarding track saws.



> Taylor Swift, Lindsey Lohan, Miley Cyrus or Katy Perry.


The only thing they don't have that my wife has is me. :grin:


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> At $70 US, it's in the middle for price range. There's a lot of blades that cost 2-3 times as much.
> 
> It's perfectly balanced, nickel coated, with a secondary core to deaden the blade so there's no noticeable vibration. It's significantly better built than the OEM blades that come with the saws.
> 
> As much as I'd want to complain about the $70 USD, $95 Canadian, if you slapped a Freud or Festool logo on it you'd be paying $140 US for the same thing.


For a 6" blade on a track saw? I never heard of a 6" track saw blade costing over 200.00, not even a Festool blade. Maybe I just don't look at such things, who knows.

Now on my table saw or even my miter saw, yea, but a 6" track saw? I guess I am old school, 70.00 is a huge amount for a 6" blade. 

I have used the 15.00 to 41.00 blades for years so I am not quite sure what I am going to see that thats better than my go to 41.00 blade that really cuts so well top and bottom I am not even sure why I am trying this 70.00 blade. I thought I would give it a shot, I am all for better and longer lasting that's for sure. If I don't see a difference Ill go back to that 41.00 blade for critical work and 15.00 blade for the rough cuts.

I am the type of guy that believes its all in the blade, a good saw with a great blade is better than a great saw with a good blade. Heck, I paid 260.00 for my carbide band saw blade so I don't complain about prices, we generally get what we pay for and no one forces anyone to pay a certain price. A 70.00 6" blade just surprised me a bit.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> For a 6" blade on a track saw? I never heard of a 6" track saw blade costing over 200.00, not even a Festool blade. Maybe I just don't look at such things, who knows.
> 
> Now on my table saw or even my miter saw, yea, but a 6" track saw? I guess I am old school, 70.00 is a huge amount for a 6" blade.
> 
> ...


There's a couple of Festool Blades, Forest Blades and Tenryu blade that cost $140 - $200 US. 

They're not really worth it. Law of "diminishing returns" kicks in at some point like it does with high end speakers. 

Sometimes you pay for a premium for a 5 % improvement. 

The Infinity blade is well priced given it's offering you glass smooth finishes.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I use a Freud 48T blade on my track saw and it works well. Also bought a Festool rip blade for the occasional need but I use the Freud most of the time.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Ordered the infinity 165 blade. To me, it's priced appropriately for the quality of blade. I know it has a lot of carbide so it will sharpen several times. I have never been disappointed with a premium blade's cut. There are lots of good medium priced blades, but the whole point of a plunging track saw is a clean tearout-free edge.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Totally agree about the need for good blades. I'm partial to Tenryu but, my son bought me an Infinity for the SCMS. Have yet to try it. If it cuts as well as the Tenryu, Infinity may gain another customer. They're a bit less expensive, too. 
But, think I'll stick with Tenryu for the old Skil 77.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Performance is everything in a blade.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Gene Howe said:


> Totally agree about the need for good blades. I'm partial to Tenryu but, my son bought me an Infinity for the SCMS. Have yet to try it. If it cuts as well as the Tenryu, Infinity may gain another customer. They're a bit less expensive, too.
> But, think I'll stick with Tenryu for the old Skil 77.


The Tenryu and Infinity should have the same cut quality. It's comparing two blades that can leave a glass finish. 

Probably if you have a magnify glass handy you'll give an edge to the Tenryu.

The top of the line Tenryu's will get slightly more cut time between sharpening. You won't see a visual difference in cut quality.

People looking for cheap alternative to the track saws can also look at the Kreg Accu-Cut.

https://www.kregtool.com/store/c48/saw-attachments/p425/accu-cuttrade/

You're Skill 77 was made to work with the Kreg Track. It's also really shows some of the limitations of using a Circular Saw track vs buying a dedicated Track Saw.


----------



## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

*Tom I have easysmart*



tomp913 said:


> I have modified my saw by adding the dust pickup nozzle shown here. It picks up a fair amount of the sawdust, but you really need to add a piece of flexible clear plastic over the side of the blade to get the most benefit. The nozzle can be purchased from Eurekazone EZSMART Dust Port There are videos on the web site showing how to install the nozzle.


Tom I have the easy smart track and it works for me but I was wonder do you know if the cheap saw like mike has will work without the adapter? I have the home made perf dog table works great but I cant cut 2 x stock without flipping over to cut and that saw has dust port. I got rid of radial arm saw saved a lot of space.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

If I were going to put dust collection on a conventional circular saw, I'd look carefully at where it starts and where it is flying out. The DC has to move a lot of air and be in that sawdust path to do any good. It is the enclosed blade that makes DC so nice with a track saw. Remember that the blade is coming up through the material, so you want it face down. Depth of cut on a 6 1/2 blade isn't going to be much after accounting for the arbor and arbor nut.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@DesertRatTom

I guess that there are a couple of theories about dust collection on a circular saw. EZ had a nozzle that attached to the guard at the back of the saw, but now pushes the one for the front (the other is still available on special order) - the theory being that the front is where the sawdust is generated and so you want to pick it up as quickly as possible so it doesn't leak out through the big hole in the side - which makes sense to me as the teeth (and the sawdust) are coming UP from the material being cut. EZ sells a baffle which attaches to the inside front of the guard to help contain this dust - I would think that a two-piece overlapping guard would be much more effective, but it would have to be designed to work at the extremes of depth adjustment.

Like the Sheppach that Mike has, both the Festool and Makita saws have an opening in the guard - small, and I'm thinking that this provides air flow to help circulation to the dust post at the back. I do most of my cutting on an open grid, but I hear people talking that the dust collection is way more effective when you have a sheet of foam on top of it so the DC picks up the sawdust that would otherwise drop to the bottom.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@roofner

Gary,

I'm not sure what you're asking - do you mean the EZ saw base? Mike's (@MT Stringer) saw has a groove in the bottom that fits over the "ridge" on the track, just like the other track saws.

I think most of the track saws will cut through a 2 x 4 with no problem - the Makita has a depth capacity of 2-3/16", the Festool 1-15/16" (both with the saw on the rail, and the Makita more because of the larger blade). Depth capacity has been a complaint for the EZ - you lose 1/2" capacity for the track plus 1/16" or so for the base - which is why some go with the larger 8-1/2" Makita saw to use with the EZ. I'm not sure what my saws will cut with the EZ, I have a Milwaukee mounted on a Tru-Trac base and can shorten an exterior door so that's what I use, the EZ is/was used on plywood. Less now since I bought the MFT table and parf dogs, but I still use the UEG to break down plywood sheets into strips before cross-cutting to size. I get inconsistent results with the Diable blade I've been using and ordered a heavier (wider kerf) blade to see if that solves the problem.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> @roofner
> 
> Gary,
> 
> ...


I'm not really sure about the Freud blades anymore. Their quality has been on the decline for the past two years. Especially on blade longevity between sharpenings. 

Makita has a new brushless 36 Volt Track Saw on the way, XPS01 It looks interesting since they've addressed several isssues with the SP6000. 






Even if you're not interested in the XPS01 Cordless model, hopefully this means their will finally be a new model to update the SP6000.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That Makita cordless track saw looks pretty cool , although I like the dewalt battery system much better as there cordless Miter saw uses two 120vdc batteries .
I find that most cordless tools with large blades like skill saws are basically useless , but maybe they've improved


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

It improved big time. Festool cordless work just as well as the 110V versions.

If the Makita works as well as its 110V counterpart it may be nice for some. Seeing how I use a hose to a dust collector anyhow cutting an electric cord does little for me personally, I dont notice the electric cord now.

Maybe Ill try this Makita cordless I have it in my cart at Amazon(587.00 plus tax) and Tool Nut(499.99 no tax) right now. If I pull the trigger I'll let people know how it goes.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

dovetail_65 said:


> Seeing how I use a hose to a dust collector anyhow cutting an electric cord does little for me personally, I dont notice the electric cord now.


Good point . I normaly use the hose anyways , so what's an additional cord ?


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Good point . I normaly use the hose anyways , so what's an additional cord ?



And since my dust collection hose and electric cord are one unit I would just have the end to the electric cord at the tool end flopping in the wind anyhow.

All my dust collection hose have a sleeve the electric cord is in and all the tools I own from Makita Track saw to DeWalt routers have been converted to Festool plug it ends. It takes me only two seconds to switch dust collection hose and electric for any tool.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> And since my dust collection hose and electric cord are one unit I would just have the end to the electric cord at the tool end flopping in the wind anyhow.
> 
> All my dust collection hose have a sleeve the electric cord is in and all the tools I own from Makita Track saw to DeWalt routers have been converted to Festool plug it ends. It takes me only two seconds to switch dust collection hose and electric for any tool.


The cordless versions would benefit contractors working on site. It eliminates the need to drag around a generator. 

I'm not sure how useful it would be for home users.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Steven Owen said:


> The cordless versions would benefit contractors working on site. It eliminates the need to drag around a generator.
> 
> I'm not sure how useful it would be for home users.


so w/ short battery time...
how many batteries will you need....
how will you charge the batteries on site...
you need a gerator anywats for all the other stuff but temp power should have the 1st to put in ...


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> so w/ short battery time...
> how many batteries will you need....
> how will you charge the batteries on site...
> you need a gerator anywats for all the other stuff but temp power should have the 1st to put in ...


Dewalt has the only viable onsite cordless tracksaw. They use a 60V platform that will last the whole day with two packs and 800 board feet cutting on 2 batteries. 

Both Makita and Festool are only offering 110 Board feet (real world usage) on two 18 Volt batteries.

The bigger problem with most of these tools are not the performance but the cost of 5.0 amp batteries replacements. 

Spending $300 - $400 for battery replacements every 4-5 years is just plain ridiculous. 

I'm hoping Makita will release a newer version of their corded track saw with a riving knife, splinter gaurd and improved track adjustment knobs and a swivel dust port.

With those improvements, there would be no reason for anyone to buy the Festool version unless they have a Festool package.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

After doing my homework over the last few weeks, I'm leaning on biting the bullet and saving the extra pennies to buy the Festool TS 75. I'm by no means a Green Koolaid drinker. Makita's weak links are the lack of a riving knife and their poorly reviewed tracks. Makita also has a very limited number of blade options and track options. 

The second you have to buy the Festool track, you pretty much eliminate the cost savings from buying Makita's SP6000. The TS 75 can handle anything you throw at it. It can handle those demanding countertop cuts.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Steven Owen said:


> After doing my homework over the last few weeks, I'm leaning on biting the bullet and saving the extra pennies to buy the Festool TS 75. I'm by no means a Green Koolaid drinker. Makita's weak links are the lack of a riving knife and their poorly reviewed tracks. Makita also has a very limited number of blade options and track options.
> 
> The second you have to buy the Festool track, you pretty much eliminate the cost savings from buying Makita's SP6000. The TS 75 can handle anything you throw at it. It can handle those demanding countertop cuts.


I have the TS75 , and am super impressed with it . I have never owned one prior to this , so I can't compare . Wish I had known about them before , as I would have gone with a smaller table saw . 
I also would have gone with FesTools ts55 version , had I not heard about the lack of power.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Even if the Makita cost the SAME price as the Festool TS55 the Makita is still better, the cost saving is just a bonus.

Anyone not buying a TS 75 or Mafell set up may as well get the Makita, with Festool rails. Now if you have a Festool router and got a Track deal with that it's even a better deal getting the Makita as you dont need get the tracks.

Heck, I have a few and actually bought a refurb Makita for 283.00 with real case and blade. The refurbs appeared to be brand new and I bought them from Amazon Warehouse. It eats a Festool TS 55 for breakfast without a riving knife, it doesn't need one. Only the Festool track saw exhibit that weird want to jump the track binding issue,never had that with my Makita. 

The Festool tracks get bad reviews as well, only the Mafell and Bosch tracks seem to have any kind of decent review, especially for joining two tracks together. Still, neither the Makita for Festool rails have ever given me personally an issue except one long 8 foot Festool track.

I get to put the bad track saws and the 8 foot Festool track so curved it was like cutting around a corner all behind me anyhow. I am up for a shop renovation and all the Mafell tools are approved by the big boss as well as a Laguna 5'x10 or 6'x13' CNC machine(still thinking on it) and a 50" drum sander, my mouth is watering in anticipation! And yes its a brag, but one 30 years in the making.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> Even if the Makita cost the SAME price as the Festool TS55 the Makita is still better, the cost saving is just a bonus.
> 
> Anyone not buying a TS 75 or Mafell set up may as well get the Makita, with Festool rails. Now if you have a Festool router and got a Track deal with that it's even a better deal getting the Makita as you dont need get the tracks.
> 
> ...


You're living in the US, you have the bonus of getting things cheaper and having a wide variety of used tracks saws to pick from.

Used track saws are sparse and we pay $100 - $150 more dollars to purchase the same saws.

The SP6000 is $499 with a 55 Inch track at Busy Bee tools. It's very hard to find the SP6000 as a standalone unit a fair price. 

Riving knifes are a life saver cutting hardwoods. With the exception of MDF, it's very rare for plywood sheets to bind the blade. 

I would never even consider the Festool TS 55. There's only $100 dollar difference between the TS55 and TS75. There's no reason to buy the underpowered TS55. 

The track lock for bevels is nice. It's a easy as using both hands to hold the saw when cutting bevels. Bevel cuts are pretty rare. 

If you're bevel cutting a 1 and a 1/2 inch price of hardwood, I would never consider using a track saw to bevel cut a without a riving knife.

If you compare the Makita and the TS 75 on softwood and hardwood plywood & sheet goods. The comparison gets much harder. With an Infinity Blade the Makita should hold it's own against the TS 75.

With cutting sheet goods.


----------



## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

OK, maybe I should wade in with a British por-user perspective (or I'm a bit sceptical about a few of the points raised here). I've been a track saw user for 17 or 18 years having started out with a Hilti WSC255 and progressed to a Festool TS55 and TS75. I've used the Makita and Mafell, too



dovetail_65 said:


> The reason I sold the TS 75 is it's just to big and heavy for my weak hands, even on a track. And I dont cut hardwoods on a track. From my perspective I dont get the large track saw, as anything the TS 75 can do I can do better using another tool. BUT, I work in a shop not on a job-site.


Try trimming a 60 or 70mm thick solid oak door or a similar thickness fire door (not an uncommon task on refurbs in older office blocks, hospitals, public buildings, etc) where the floor level may have changed (tiles instead of vinyl, etc) and you'd soon "get" the TS75. For specific uses on site they can be very handy, but TBH mine stays in the van most of the time



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I wanted the 55 as I thought the 75 was a bit large and cumbersome, but after reading reviews about the weak arse motors in the 55 , I settled on the 75 .


Sounds like you've been watching "Mr. Skokum's" videos, but here's the rub: I've been running a TS55 for about 6 or 7 years, now - enough time to got through about 15 new blades and some 40 to 50 sharpenings - and that "weak arsed" motor hasn't failed yet. I am on my third replacement base, though, with a fourth one due (the result of running off the end of the rails). That experience of reliability and durability is far from being a one-off, either. What I would appreciate from Festool is a bit more torque/power, although I do find the TS55 to be sensitive to how sharp the blade is. 



Steven Owen said:


> A lot word working magazines needs redo their tests to include the newest version of the Triton. I would hold it's own against the Festool 55.


In a trade environment? I'll wait and see



Steven Owen said:


> The vast majority of hobbyist wood workers would be wasting their money on the Festool track saws. Festool track saws are designed for people using them for contract or production work.


I can't disagree with you there. One big plus of the Festools ], though, is that they have excellent dust extraction - but saws like this do need to be used with a good extractor and those cost as much as the saws themselves over here



dovetail_65 said:


> Even if the Makita cost the SAME price as the Festool TS55 the Makita is still better, the cost saving is just a bonus.


Not sure how you work that one out. The Makita base is longer than the Festool - a minor point, but can be significant when cutting-down some sheet stocks which require a non-plunge cut to be made (e.g. materials such as Trespa - an HPL). Another thing I will say is that the Festool guide rails are anodised - Makita ones aren't (a big disadvantage for kit stored on site and in vans). I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that the Festool certainly has a better fit and finish, slightly better dust extraction and the Plug-It cord is far from a gimmick in environments where a vacuum may be shared between several tools as is common om many sites. Even so, had money been a bit tighter when I bought my Fes I'd have got a Mak and been almost as happy



Stick486 said:


> so w/ short battery time...
> how many batteries will you need....
> how will you charge the batteries on site...
> you need a gerator anywats for all the other stuff but temp power should have the 1st to put in ...


In the real world you often don't get temporary power where or when you want it, also some projects require rapid moives between different points in a building or complex, so there is a point to having a cordless rail saw for some workers. Not enough batteries? Then buy more! My Makita site kit has 12 batteries in it, mainly 5Ah. I rarely drain the lot in a day, but I always have one or two in reserve at the end of a day 

The usefulness of a rail saw comes out when you are faced tasks such as making-up and installing 3 dozen individual MDF or plywood pipe boxings in bathrooms which are all different (because you don't need to plane-in any edges, just sand) or where, like we did recently, you spend 3 weeks of your life trimming-in 250 slatted oak ceiling panels round three sides to get them to fit in a mis-shapen Victorian church roof (we were converting it into a library). As an installation tool plunge/rail saws are absolutely brilliant - as a workshop tool I think I could do better with many other tools


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

temp power here is not an issue.. in fact it's up and running before the grade work is even started 99% of the time..
it comes w/ the site trailer which is done 1st.. 
and nobody would go near or use a rail saw on a construction site.. 
it and you will waste way too much time...
chalk line or eyeball it.. don't need more...
if you need a rail saw for trim or custom install the electricity will be there... everywhere...


----------



## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> temp power here is not an issue..
> nobody would go near a rail saw on a construction site..
> wastes too much time...
> chalk line or eyeball it..
> if you need a rail saw for trim or custom install the electricity will be there... everywhere...


That's just rough and nasty, what we'd call bodge work. On 1st fix I'd half agree with you, but for finish work (trim carpentry) it just isn't true. Rail saws aren't that much slower, and the increased accuracy is often a bonus which makes their use worthwhile.

TBH I've heard so much cobblers spouted about (against) rail saw over the last 15 years, generally from older, more set in their ways guys, that I just have to laugh these days. A lot of younger carpenters have adopted them because they are neater and faster in a lot of cases (but then I don't build tract houses, never have and never will). I have heard the same sort of comments bandied about when I've pulled out gas nailers, laser levels, cordless pinners, digital rangefinders, etc. Time and technologies move on


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Job and Knock said:


> OK, maybe I should wade in with a British por-user perspective (or I'm a bit sceptical about a few of the points raised here). I've been a track saw user for 17 or 18 years having started out with a Hilti WSC255 and progressed to a Festool TS55 and TS75. I've used the Makita and Mafell, too
> 
> 
> Try trimming a 60 or 70mm thick solid oak door or a similar thickness fire door (not an uncommon task on refurbs in older office blocks, hospitals, public buildings, etc) where the floor level may have changed (tiles instead of vinyl, etc) and you'd soon "get" the TS75. For specific uses on site they can be very handy, but TBH mine stays in the van most of the time


 I already said I work in a shop, not on site and that for site work it's different story. I also said the TS 75 is the only track saw worth getting when working with thick hard woods(for me any hardwoods at all), the others FOR ME, are plywood saws. To be clear, I use Festool rails as I am in the whole Festool system, even my Makita has Festool plug it ends.

So I think you and I are on the same page as far as the TS75. 

Possibly if you didn't have a TS 75 you might have a Makita and not a TS 55. You have that choice to go to the TS 75 when you dont have the power right now, but for the guys that can only afford to have ONE saw my suggestion is still the Makita for the 55 size range. I believe the Makita is the choice right now, until Festool adds 15% to the power of the TS 55. And really I wouldn't mind the TS 75 going to 15 amps, there are still certain things my skill77 needed to be pulled out for, even before I sold my TS 75. I woulnt mind if Makita upgraded their track saw with some of the missing options the Festool track saws and others have, there is something about the Festool saws that so seem for lack of a better word more "elegant" than the Makita.

I use a track saw everyday and any track saw is better than no track saw at all. Many guys can use a TS 55 and be happy, I wasn't happy so I sold my TS 55 and my TS 75 and kept the Makita. Because I buy into the "plug it" ends and dust collection hoses that have the electric cords integral to them I gravitated to the Festool rails becasue I have an OF 2200 and some other Festool tools. Others may not buy into the Festool system and be fine with the Makita rails.







.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Job and Knock said:


> That's just rough and nasty, what we'd call bodge work. On 1st fix I'd half agree with you, but for finish work (trim carpentry) it just isn't true. Rail saws aren't that much slower, and the increased accuracy is often a bonus which makes their use worthwhile.
> 
> TBH I've heard so much cobblers spouted about (against) rail saw over the last 15 years, generally from older, more set in their ways guys, that I just have to laugh these days. A lot of younger carpenters have adopted them because they are neater and faster in a lot of cases (but then I don't build tract houses, never have and never will). I have heard the same sort of comments bandied about when I've pulled out gas nailers, laser levels, cordless pinners, digital rangefinders, etc. Time and technologies move on


I agree with this to a point, the point is where guys use tracks saw in a way I consider bodge work. Too many guys really think a track saw is like me using a sliding table saw or a enc machine, its not. And the more famous woodworkers on the net in the USA 7 or 8 years ago that got rid of their table saws and tried to survive on a track saw alone have nearly all bought another table saw of some kind.

So yeah a track saw is great, but if anyone thinks I am using it to cut a 3"x10"x8' piece of Ipe to make parts for edge joining are mistaken. I have seen this type work done with a track saw and for me personally using a track saw in a case like this is what I call podge work. The tracks saw is NOT the savior for all operations, but it is a heck of a tool to have in one's arsenal for sure. And any woodworker or carpenter could benefit from owning any track saw, that's for sure.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bob Adams said:


> It depends entirely on what type of woodworking you do. I bought the T75 years ago to cut some butcher block countertops for our kitchen remodel. It was the only saw that had the depth of cut I needed, the counter blanks were too large to safely cut on the table saw. I truly thought that the saw would be a "one off" and I would sell it after I was done. Then I discovered that I could use the saw for the sink cut outs, and the uses kept piling up. I use it to help break down the rough lumber I like to use. I hate trying to horse a 3/4 sheet of ply through the table saw, and being able to accurately cut ply, with no secondary cuts is invaluable to me. When I built my shop, the only 2 saws I had available were my miter saw and the track saw. Took me 18 months to get it done, but I never felt a need to dig through my storage that had the rest of my tools. In short I use the track saw for almost every project.
> The added benefit to Festool is the "system" it creates. I use the tracks with my router all the time. If you can't tell I am a fan, and even though I am just a hobby woodworker, the saw and tracks have paid for themselves several times.


Yep, I agree on all counts. I use my track saw to break down 3/4" stock and my table saw hasn't seen plywood more than a couple times in the last 3 years or so.

My tracks have saved me more times than I can count using both my routers and saws.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> Yep, I agree on all counts. I use my track saw to break down 3/4" stock and my table saw hasn't seen plywood more than a couple times in the last 3 years or so.
> 
> My tracks have saved me more times than I can count using both my routers and saws.


The Festool track saws are one of the few Festools I don't gripe about their price. They're competing against full sized shop tables.

My Dewalt 7491 is not going anywhere if I buy a track saw. 

If I'm cutting anything under 32 inches by 4 feet, that cut is getting done on a table saw with Tenryu or Infinity General, not a track saw. 

Large slabs of hardwood are $2500 or more in Canada. I doubt I'll be cutting any slabs anytime soon. 

A table top is a more common tasks. If you're paying the big bucks on the TS 75 for the 8/4 table top cuts.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Job and Knock said:


> That's just rough and nasty, what we'd call bodge work. On 1st fix I'd half agree with you, but for finish work (trim carpentry) it just isn't true. Rail saws aren't that much slower, and the increased accuracy is often a bonus which makes their use worthwhile.
> 
> TBH *I've heard so much cobblers spouted about (against) rail saw over the last 15 years, generally from older, more set in their ways guys*, that I just have to laugh these days. A lot of younger carpenters have adopted them because they are neater and faster in a lot of cases (but then I don't build tract houses, never have and never will). I have heard the same sort of comments bandied about when I've pulled out gas nailers, laser levels, cordless pinners, digital rangefinders, etc. Time and technologies move on


you may be trying to but I can't/won't nor help justify something that has no business being someplace to begin w/.. you seem to be coming up short in VOE for rough construction .. 15 years heh... 60 plus here.. you sound like a salesman instead of a tradesman...

I didn't rally against it...
I even offered a plan "B" for one to save hundreds of dollars... DC and all...
and they are not faster by a long shot...


----------



## Minnesota Marty (May 7, 2016)

*Stick- I'm with you brother.*



Stick486 said:


> temp power here is not an issue.. in fact it's up and running before the grade work is even started 99% of the time..
> it comes w/ the site trailer which is done 1st..
> and nobody would go near or use a rail saw on a construction site..
> it and you will waste way too much time...
> ...


I primarily use my track saw for trim work, exterior and interior. It almost replaces the table saw on the job site. For cutting 45's on large vertical wood columns it can't be beat. 

Marty


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Minnesota Marty said:


> I primarily use my track saw for trim work, exterior and interior. It almost replaces the table saw on the job site. *For cutting 45's on large vertical wood columns it can't be beat. *
> 
> Marty


exactly - trim work.. accuracy matters...
rough construction... naw...
cutting 45's - I'm w/ ya there...

and Marty.. glad to meet'ja...

Marty aka Stick..


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> exactly - trim work.. accuracy matters...
> rough construction... naw...
> cutting 45's - I'm w/ ya there...
> 
> ...


I'm starting to see more tracks, mostly Dewalt's and Festool's, being used out on rough construction sites over table saws. 

I think that has more to do with portability than anything else.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Steven Owen said:


> The Festool track saws are one of the few Festools I don't gripe about their price. They're competing against full sized shop tables.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=oezp-_DcUgg




Steven Owen said:


> I'm starting to see more tracks, mostly Dewalt's and Festool's, being used out on rough construction sites over table saws.
> 
> I think that has more to do with portability than anything else.


and the alternate methods out number the track saws by a wide margin...


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=22&v=oezp-_DcUgg
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's the story of every tool company out there these days. I could take a Dewalt from 10 years could do a similar comparison to a Dewalt built today.

A lot Circular saws have declined in quality over the past years. I actually don't mind buying used one's from 10 years ago if I can find them.

None of the new tools can take the abuse the older models would have taken. 

I don't mind having the odd Festool in my arsenal. I'm not a green Kool-aid drinker either.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Steven Owen said:


> That's the story of every tool company out there these days. I could take a Dewalt from 10 years could do a similar comparison to a Dewalt built today.
> 
> A lot Circular saws have declined in quality over the past years. I actually don't mind buying used one's from 10 years ago if I can find them.
> 
> ...


look to the exploded parts diagrams....


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Stick486 Well, that kind of takes the snooty out of Festool, doesn't it.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> look to the exploded parts diagrams....


everybody (most common brands) but Festool, Sears, Wen and Skil thought to use bearings through out their tools......
and metal housings too no less....
this isn't looking so good for Festool but myth and idiotology is difficult to get over....


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> everybody (most common brands) but Festool, Sears, Wen and Skil thought to use bearings through out their tools......
> and metal housings too no less....
> this isn't looking so good for Festool but myth and idiotology is difficult to get over....


The Emerson shop (Work Shop and Ridgid) vacuum's perform just as well as the Festool units that cost 5 times more in most tests. Fein and Bosch make better dust extractors. 

Bosch makes a better Jig Saw. 

The Dewalt and Bosch Miter saws perform just as well as the Kapex with the expception of pre-set angles and dust collection. Hopefully some money gets donated to a local charity every time someone is silly enough to buy a Kapex miter saw.

The Bosch Random Orbital sanders perform just as well as the Festool sanders. Festool has two more holes for better dust collection and better sandpaper. 

You can buy better sandpaper for the Bosch from 3rd parties. 

Festool always cheaps out on their entry level model. 

The Festool quality everyone keeps going on about always requires buying their top 2 models in each line. 

Otherwise their entry level models are overpriced versions of stuff other companies make at cheaper price points.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> @Stick486 Well, that kind of takes the snooty out of Festool, doesn't it.


you seem to be the only one that has caught on...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Job and Knock said:


> That's just rough and nasty, what we'd call bodge work. On 1st fix I'd half agree with you, but for finish work (trim carpentry) it just isn't true. Rail saws aren't that much slower, and the increased accuracy is often a bonus which makes their use worthwhile.
> 
> TBH I've heard so much cobblers spouted about (against) rail saw over the last 15 years, generally from older, more set in their ways guys, that I just have to laugh these days. A lot of younger carpenters have adopted them because they are neater and faster in a lot of cases (but then I don't build tract houses, never have and never will). I have heard the same sort of comments bandied about when I've pulled out gas nailers, laser levels, cordless pinners, digital rangefinders, etc. Time and technologies move on


Chalkline and skillsaw. In framing it's all about strength and beauty isn't a consideration so speed wins over finesse as long as structural integrity is unaffected. All finesse does is drive up cost with no appreciable benefit. Beauty comes later.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> Chalkline and skillsaw. In framing it's all about strength and beauty isn't a consideration so speed wins over finesse as long as structural integrity is unaffected. All finesse does is drive up cost with no appreciable benefit. Beauty comes later.


The odd thing is the company with the most potential in Track Saws is the one people talk the least about. 

Triton has very good track quality and they address a few complaints people have about the Makita. 

Triton really just needs ro release a more power and refined saw to take it the competitors.

Dewalt has an excellent track saw as well as long as you use someone else's blades. Dewalt blades are pure junk.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

I'd love to ask Makita why they fixed several issues people complain about in the SP6000 in their cordless model without announcing any updates to the SP6000 released way back in 2008. 

The SP6100 should have:

- Better tracks
- Longer cord 
- larger depth adjustment dial 
- better track adjustment knobs 
- a swivel hose connector

Makita doesn't need to make any major changes; it would benefit from a model refresh and slight design overhaul.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Steven Owen said:


> I'd love to ask Makita why they fixed several issues people complain about in the SP6000 in their cordless model without announcing any updates to the SP6000 released way back in 2008.
> 
> The SP6100 should have:
> 
> ...


- the only difference I can see is that the Festool is anodized, I don't see that being a problem in a normal shop environment. I'd heard that there was a problem with track straightness - no problem on either of mine, I checked on receipt - but I've heard of some problems with Festool, mainly on the longer tracks. I would think that this is just a QC problem.

- how long does a cord have to be? My bench has an outlet attached, the cord needs to go from there by the length of the track (plus some slack). Anything over that, use an extension. To me, a negative about the longer cord is storage, it can be a PITA to coil a long cord and store it in the box - my Fein Multi-tool is an example. Many years ago, I took most of my tools and shortened the cords as I found I was using an extension out on the job anyway - wonder if the thief who wound up with them liked that or not?

- that one I'd agree with, not the most user-friendly feature of the saw.

- I don't know, the hose connector on the back of my saw swivels through 360°


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> - the only difference I can see is that the Festool is anodized, I don't see that being a problem in a normal shop environment. I'd heard that there was a problem with track straightness - no problem on either of mine, I checked on receipt - but I've heard of some problems with Festool, mainly on the longer tracks. I would think that this is just a QC problem.
> 
> - how long does a cord have to be? My bench has an outlet attached, the cord needs to go from there by the length of the track (plus some slack). Anything over that, use an extension. To me, a negative about the longer cord is storage, it can be a PITA to coil a long cord and store it in the box - my Fein Multi-tool is an example. Many years ago, I took most of my tools and shortened the cords as I found I was using an extension out on the job anyway - wonder if the thief who wound up with them liked that or not?
> 
> ...


I haven't been able to see the Makita in person. Some people got their reviews about the Makita wrong then. 

You can keep exchanging the tracks if you're luck is bad and you get a warped track. It's not the end of the world. 

You can use Triton's tack for shorter cuts. 

The number one concern I have for the Makita was the cleanliness of the cut on the opposing scrap piece. 

Aside from the score cut, Makita has never added anything to address the the cut on the scrap side of the cut. You want to get the most out of your plywood sheets, especially if they're pricey hardwood sheets.

Makita's tracks are anodized.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

The problem with comparing the TS 75 and Festool TS 55 is the two saws have nothing in common aside from the fact they share a similar appearance.

The TS 55 is build for weight. There's a lot of quality compromises made get the weight down below 10 lbs.

The TS 75, like the Dewalt is a beast. It's close to 15 lbs. The build quality of the TS 75 is vastly superior to the clunkier TS 55.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

do you own a track saw...
or are trying to justify one...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*A Little Spackle...*



Stick486 said:


> Chalkline and skillsaw. In framing it's all about strength and beauty isn't a consideration so speed wins over finesse as long as structural integrity is unaffected. All finesse does is drive up cost with no appreciable benefit. Beauty comes later.


What we used to call a 'painter fix'. (Leave it to the last guy (putting his hands on it) to make it look good.) >


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> do you own a track saw...
> or are trying to justify one...


I'm planing to buy a Track saw. I'm trying to make sure the one I pick can handle pricey hardwoods on furniture projects.

I really wish Bosch would bring their Track Saw to North America. There would not even be a debate.


----------



## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I have a 7 1/4 Hitachi saw and it will not cut 2 x material with ez smart track system 
so in need to go to a 8" blade. I guess for now I will use my sliding miter saw not as good a cut.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

roofner said:


> I have a 7 1/4 Hitachi saw and it will not cut 2 x material with ez smart track system
> so in need to go to a 8" blade. I guess for now I will use my sliding miter saw not as good a cut.


Gary,

Is this just for cross-cutting 2x material?


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

roofner said:


> I have a 7 1/4 Hitachi saw and it will not cut 2 x material with ez smart track system
> so in need to go to a 8" blade. I guess for now I will use my sliding miter saw not as good a cut.


use a speed square and w/ the blade of your choice in a CS...


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

I looked at the Mafell as well. It's too bad it's so insanely expensive to ship not factoring in the tariffs the second it crosses the border


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm waiting for Dr T's review of his Triton. That one is starting to look interesting.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> I looked at the Mafell as well. It's too bad it's so insanely expensive to ship not factoring in the tariffs the second it crosses the border


Well you pay USA pricing, becauae your friend Dovetail will just ship you a gift from the USA. One reason I haven't bought anything Mafell is becasue even the best price here in the USA with no tax and free shipping is just still too much money. I finally am going to dip in the Mafell pool when I redo my shop because I use a track saw mostly for plywood.But for thick hardwoods the Festool TS 75 is still FOR ME going to be the saw to choose. I sold mine, but if I had to start cutting thick hardwoods with a track saw that's the saw I would get.

I am surprised they don't sell Mafell in Canada, there are two companies in the USA selling the Mafell stuff now and I am sure more coming.

I received the suggested Infinity blade today and tossed it on my my Makita and WOW!.. I never heard a blade sound so funny, bad dam it cut though 5/4" Wenge and left a nice glue edge, best track saw blade I have ever used for sure. I almost didn't test the new blade on Wenge because I thought I might dull the blade, but the one cut I did make in Wenge made me a believer in the Infinity track saw blades, even at 70.00.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I'm waiting for Dr T's review of his Triton. That one is starting to look interesting.


Kind of a mess with Shingles. Slowly getting better, but really one eyed at the moment--like having flu for weeks at a time.. Also waiting for the Infinity 165 mm blade. I guess I need one of Stick's round tuits.


----------



## KennK (Mar 7, 2012)

I've used the tracks and accessories at http://www.eurekazone.com for many years. You can use your own circular saw, but I was lazy and got one from them with the base and vacuum port pre-installed. I recently invested in the EZ-One. Check out their "EZSMART Track Saw Systems" video on youtube. Note the dovetail shape in extrusion. This provides very accurate alignment when connecting multiple tracks and accessories. Antichip edge on track and zero clearance insert in the base give very clean cuts. Fin insert in baae protects against kickback. Small US company based in central Florida, they currently have a sale to celebrate coming through ok.

I'm not associated with the company. Just a happy customer who HATES using circular saws freehand and DREADS cutting plywood on a table saw.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I used the EZ smart for years. The day Festool Track Saws came on the market here in the US I bought one and though I use and prefer a Makita now , I never used my Eureka zone stuff agsin. I sold about 1000.00 worth of Eurtkazone equipment I had on ebay.

For me there is no comparison. Using a saw made to be guided on a track and collect dust inherent in its initial design, the entire point of it's design, compared to a regular saw using parts to make the saw collect dust and be guided in a track is a huge difference. I just could never go back to EZ Smart setup.

I can easily say I never used a true track saw of any brand(Mafell, Festool, DeWalt, Triton and Makita) that wasn't better than EZ Smart. The EZ smart has matured a bit, but the best thing about the EZ smart set up isn't the saw, track or dust collection at all, but the EZ smart table set up. The EZ Smart works so if someone wants to go that way they will benefit, but I can't go back. I think in a side by side set up 9 out of 10 people are going to choose a track saw with a nice cut table over the EZ Smart.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Too Late for the Vaccine I guess...*



DesertRatTom said:


> Kind of a mess with Shingles. Slowly getting better, but really one eyed at the moment--like having flu for weeks at a time.. Also waiting for the Infinity 165 mm blade. I guess I need one of Stick's round tuits.


Geez, Tom; quit slacking off. At this rate they're going to name a wing at the hospital after you!!! 
Get well soon, eh! Seriously.
(Might be the heads up the rest of us need to get the anti-shingles vaccine.) 

"Shingles is most common in people older than 55, but the older you are the higher at risk you are for it," Penn said. "It's also common in immune suppressed systems."
Shingles, Varicella herpes zoster virus, Doctors Recommend Shingles Vaccine, Seniors need shingles vaccination Zostavax


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Guess that means Dr T qualifies as old.

I got the vaccine last year after my SIL had shingles. Not nice!!!!

Think all us "old" codgers should get it.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks all. Interesting that it's showing up on my face, about the same spot I had a chicken pox mark. My immune system is compromised from cancer therapy about 9 years ago. I'm being forced to retire over these health issues, and the stress of that was probably the trigger.

Hopefully, I can do some shop work soon. Itchin' to try out some new tools on my 17 drawers project. I also just had a covered porch put on my office-shed in the back yard and want to put a "tin" roof over it and paint it for winter. Fall happened today (it's like that here in the Mojave), and being able to sit out there with my sweetie and a toddy sounds wonderful. Maybe next week the scabbing over will be done and I can be in public and in the shop.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Geeze, Tom. Didn't realize you had shingles. Take care of yourself, now. Lets have no relapses. Try to relax more. Retirement isn't so bad.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; How about *Suntuf Polycarbonate sheeting instead of "tin"?

Suntuf® Corrugated Polycarbonate - Palram Americas
It's pretty easy to install yourself.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> Well you pay USA pricing, becauae your friend Dovetail will just ship you a gift from the USA. One reason I haven't bought anything Mafell is becasue even the best price here in the USA with no tax and free shipping is just still too much money. I finally am going to dip in the Mafell pool when I redo my shop because I use a track saw mostly for plywood.But for thick hardwoods the Festool TS 75 is still FOR ME going to be the saw to choose. I sold mine, but if I had to start cutting thick hardwoods with a track saw that's the saw I would get.
> 
> I am surprised they don't sell Mafell in Canada, there are two companies in the USA selling the Mafell stuff now and I am sure more coming.
> 
> I received the suggested Infinity blade today and tossed it on my my Makita and WOW!.. I never heard a blade sound so funny, bad dam it cut though 5/4" Wenge and left a nice glue edge, best track saw blade I have ever used for sure. I almost didn't test the new blade on Wenge because I thought I might dull the blade, but the one cut I did make in Wenge made me a believer in the Infinity track saw blades, even at 70.00.


There's no Mafell dealer in Canada that I'm aware of. My bigger concern with buying a Mafell Track Saw would be warranty issues. 

What do you do with a Mafell if you need to fix it for any reason?
Do you ship it back to Pennsylvania for a repair? 

There's no warranty or service for a Mafell once it ships across the boarder.

I have 13 authorized Festool repair Centers in Edmonton. You don't don't have to worry about a service Center with Festool. 

As much as I hate spending the money, I'll probably have to bite the bullet on the TS 75. I want to cut some hardwood tops for furniture and tables.

I also want to get the Festool 1400 series router for my freehand work. I've used a friend's 1400 for a couple of projects. It's a killer router. It's easy on the hands during circle cuts.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Tom; How about *Suntuf Polycarbonate sheeting instead of "tin"?
> 
> Suntuf® Corrugated Polycarbonate - Palram Americas
> It's pretty easy to install yourself.


Thanks for the suggestion, problem is my son in law used that and it broke down, but I think that's vecause of insufficient support. I have the whole top crossed with 2x3s every 8 inches, but want it opaque to keep sun off that porch. The sun is brutal here during Summer because we're at about 3000 feet. UV fries you in a few minutes. But it would be very easy to install.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

It comes in colours (transparent) as well...and it filters out UV. 
Are you sure the SiL's product wasn't the PVC version?
Blue, green, or white will stop the IR as well as the UV.
Polycarbonate Sheet Corrugated - SUNTUF® | Palram

You'd have to order it in as HD doesn't seem to stock it in colours. 
Yeh, 8" spacing oughta do it... *Holy Hanna!*
_"Martha; tell them to park on the roof."_


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks Dan for the info. Blocking IR would also be great and the green would go nicely with the milk-chodolate color of the wood. Any thoughts on how much unsupported overhang I could get away with? 2, four, six inches? I noticed you can get shaped mounting bars and put screws in the high areas so you have less chance of leaks in the low. Looks like about $100 buck or so for this job. I'm also considering adding a short section of gutter to redirect the water, which digs a small trench into our sand pretty fast.

I'll have to get up there for the middle sections, but can do the edges from a ladder. BTW, the Shingles is getting better, so I'm going to try an indoor project or two today. Will wait for the Infinity blade to arrive before trimming the rubber on the Triton tracks. That rubber part is surprisingly expensive to replace and I think the infinity blade is slightly different thickness than the Triton's blade. Maybe I'll read the instruction book first?.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> There's no Mafell dealer in Canada that I'm aware of. My bigger concern with buying a Mafell Track Saw would be warranty issues.
> 
> What do you do with a Mafell if you need to fix it for any reason?
> Do you ship it back to Pennsylvania for a repair?
> ...


The TS 75 is still better than the Mafell for thick woods so you are getting a fantastic saw, some could argue better. I am not sure of the depth of cit for the Mafell 80ec, I think its over 3" and is a KSS, I think those run on regular tracks as well though, not sure. That may be the TS 75 comparison.

We all think different, I guess I am a glass half full guy. I never bought a tool worrying about the warranty. I own half a dozen from Italy and Germany, I do my research and trust it. If they failed I would be screwed, fact is it's past 3 years and they are all running strong. This has served me well and in 30 years only two tools ever broke during a warranty period, that's another thread topic.

Anyhow, I sold my Festool OF 1400 and OF 1010 I didn't care for them. I had them both for near a year, possibly after a year you might change your mind as well. Once I bought the Festool OF 2200 I rarely picked up any other router as for me the OF 2200 handled better than the OF1400, even though it is much larger. And the dust collection is just so much better on the OF2200. For small free hand I use my DEWalt 618's and 611's and even my OF 22000 if it isn't physically too large for the work piece. 

I have my preference for how the dust collection hose attaches and I prefer it integral to the router design and need the dust port going up like on the OF 2200 and DeWalt 618's. The OF 1400 over time started feeling loose and cheap to me and the few metal parts on the OF 1400 and OF 1010 started to rust when no other tools n my shop ever have, not even cast iron. I know you are looking at the OF 1400 but for the OF 1010 I truly think my little DeWalt 611 is better for both power and ease of use. I can only go off how I feel, some guys might think I am nuts. Using routers everyday as my job I have developed preference. I do work in a shop though and my dust collection comes down from above so that does make a difference on that, still I think the entire line of Festool router needs an update badly! I have a list of upgrades I would like made to the Festool routers , but again that's for another thread. The Festool routers have have any major changes in I think 7 years, it's time.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wait Mafell is sold to Canadians and the warranty is valid, It's right on their website. 

I tried to make an order to Canada and it works, 176.00 US shipping though. If you really want Mafell it appears it can easily happen, I am still on the fence as to if it's worth so much more than the Festool. The Mafell ec85 KSS with just the little track is over 2000.00 shipped to you, plus more for another longer track. The only thing different is the tax issue as noted in my jpeg and it may or may not add a bunch. I went through this when ordering from Italy and Germany, in the end I got lucky and my shipments slipped through without ever having to pay anything else. I contacted a friend in Canada and he said he bought from Timberwolf and paid 0.00 tax and/or duty so it seems legit. He said Timber adds that shipping notation to protect themselves, but everything seemed to be paid for on their end. He just paid the local taxes as he would buying anywhere else in his area and seeing how Timber doesn't charge tax to Canadian's on the front end that seems fair enough.


http://www.mafell.de/en/dealer/north-america.html

https://www.timberwolftools.com/

If this isn't correct they need to take off the page saying they sell in Canada. 

Dealers selling in Canada

Timberwolf Tools
2 Wilderness Dr
P.O. Box 25
Newry, ME 04261 USA
Tel. 001 800 8694169 toll free
Tel. 001 603 3266033 direct
Fax 001 207 8244170
e-mail: info(at)timberwolftools.com
web: www.timberwolftools.com
web: www.mafelltoolstore.com

Timberwolf Tools
3927 N Central Park Ave
Chicago, IL 60618 USA
Tel. 001 800 8694169 toll free
Tel. 001 603 3266033 direct
Fax 001 207 8244170
e-mail: info(at)timberwolftools.com
web: www.timberwolftools.com
web: www.mafelltoolstore.com


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_$176 for shipping?!_ Wait; I don't want to buy the courier's vehicle...
That in a nutshell is why most of us Canucks only buy if your USPS does the shipping!
What was the weight and value of the items in the shopping basket?


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

DaninVan said:


> _$176 for shipping?!_ Wait; I don't want to buy the courier's vehicle...
> That in a nutshell is why most of us Canucks only buy if your USPS does the shipping!
> What was the weight and value of the items in the shopping basket?



That supposedly covers all the taxes and across the border fees and paperwork. As I said I only know ONE person to buy from them in Canada and he incurred no other cost but their high shipping(though he seemed to think it wasn't out of line for what he ordered-he is more well off than me for sure).

Now where I live in the USA tax is 8.25% of that 2000.00 so it puts me at near the same cost. I just pay the tax later, not in the shipping. But only each individual ordering from Canada will really know for themselves the end cost. I can only go by people I know and what they tell me. He said it was far cheaper than a lot of other stuff he had to order out of Canada. The old saying "if you have to ask what it cost you can't afford it", is applicable. No matter where a person lives it's hella expensive for anything Mafell.

Anyone that wants that particular saw and can afford 2100.00 for a track saw no matter where they live probably doesn't care about another fee. That's the Rolls Royce of track Saws and people buying a Rolls don't ask what it cost, nor care.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The late Jerry Lewis was once asked what it's like to be rich. "It mans not worrying about how you're going to make the car payment next Tuesday," he replied.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> The TS 75 is still better than the Mafell for thick woods so you are getting a fantastic saw, some could argue better. I am not sure of the depth of cit for the Mafell 80ec, I think its over 3" and is a KSS, I think those run on regular tracks as well though, not sure. That may be the TS 75 comparison.
> 
> We all think different, I guess I am a glass half full guy. I never bought a tool worrying about the warranty. I own half a dozen from Italy and Germany, I do my research and trust it. If they failed I would be screwed, fact is it's past 3 years and they are all running strong. This has served me well and in 30 years only two tools ever broke during a warranty period, that's another thread topic.
> 
> ...


 Both Makita and Festool have issue like that. The SP6000 Track Saw and their routers haven't seen a refresh since 2008.

There's a lot of Makita tools that would be the best reviewed in their respective categories if Makita would update and refine their designs. 

Festool has done a lot of minor updates on their track saws, dust extractors and sanders.

Their Jig Saw designs are 10 years old as well. There's no reason for Festool's Jig Saws to be finishing second to the Bosch 572. The Festool Jig Saw designs haven't aged well.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I agree


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

*Trim-A-Table™ 50*

I would love for the tracks saw makers to create a table like this or for "trim a table" make an attachment so track saw tracks can attach to it AND make it for plywood, (who knows maybe it already exists).

This is the Trim-A-Table™ 50, a circular saw guide with integral angle table used for aluminum siding. I would like to use it as a large plywood miter saw. 

It seems to me it could be a simple thing to take their simple miter mechanism, attach it to a track saw track and make the table larger to accommodate plywood. 






Van Mark TAT50 Trim-A-Table Saw Table from BuyMBS.com


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Both the Festool MFT3 table https://www.festoolusa.com/products/workplace-organization/multifunction-table/495315---mft3 and the Eurekazone EZ1 table Circular saw guide rail,Wooden Clamps,Wood clamps,Panel saw, Clamps, Saw, Circular saw, Track saw, Dewalt, Festool, Makita, TrackSaw do this, although in both the track stays fixed and the workpiece is pivoted to the required angle. The track on the Festool is hinged at the back and lifted up to set the material in place, the track on the EZ1 is attached on both ends but the bridge raises it parallel to the table so that the material can be slid under the track.

There's also an "add-on" for the MFT3 https://tsoproducts.com/tso-products-precision-system-triangles/mtr-18-precision-system-triangle-set/ the triangle is attached to the MFT through one of the top holes, pivoted to the required angle and used as a fence for angled cuts.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have two MFT 3 and even an older unit without the V that use 2000mm extrusions. They work okay, I use them more as working clamp table as anything else now. I do not recommend the MFT tables anymore, they are small and I think quite clumsy to use. I used them for many years before I just said forget it. 

They dont work at all as I tried to describe and really exactly what I am trying to improve with my post.. And trying to toss an entire sheet on an MFT, well good luck that that.

A "Trim a Table" type operation would be much better and a huge upgrade over the current MFT set up, IMHO.

I also own the TSO Triangle and rail square, I use them everyday. Altogether, the TSO stuff and the MFT fence and accessories don't add up to as good as the "Trim a Table" design, for me. 

I pretty much own all the Festool stuff, when my new shop gets remodeled a lot of its going for sale, including the MFT tables and the large 2000 extrusions. I attached 4x4 dug fir to all my MFT's long ago because the MFT legs are a joke. Not even sure where the legs are. One set broke on the firs job site and I put the MFT tables in the shop ever since.

I pretty much want an aluminum siding saw made for plywood I guess, there are many models but none cut more than 16" wide pieces, here's another:

http://buymbs.com/p-1978-tapco-max-...s2carT9ESBBzZNGkbAm-RR8wlnFWK1uBoCXSUQAvD_BwE


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> I have two MFT 3 and even an older unit without the V that use 2000mm extrusions. They work okay, I use them more as working clamp table as anything else now. I do not recommend the MFT tables anymore, they are small and I think quite clumsy to use. I used them for many years before I just said forget it.
> 
> They dont work at all as I tried to describe and really exactly what I am trying to improve with my post.. And trying to toss an entire sheet on an MFT, well good luck that that.
> 
> ...


A lot of Festool owners just buy the table top and build their own table for the MFT.


----------



## silb (Sep 21, 2017)

And building your own table would keep you in practice hahahah


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

dovetail_65 said:


> I have two MFT 3 and even an older unit without the V that use 2000mm extrusions. They work okay, I use them more as working clamp table as anything else now. I do not recommend the MFT tables anymore, they are small and I think quite clumsy to use. I used them for many years before I just said forget it.
> 
> They dont work at all as I tried to describe and really exactly what I am trying to improve with my post.. And trying to toss an entire sheet on an MFT, well good luck that that.
> 
> ...


 @dovetail_65

How wide do you want to crosscut?

If you really need to cut a whole sheet, make your own top using Parf Guides. I agree, the MFT top could be bigger, but I break down full sheets first on a break-down cutting grid. If I had the room, I like the idea of mounting a second one in line to support longer parts - right now I use an adjustable roller stand.

As far as the saw, I can see making one using the Festool rear hinged bracket (so you can pick up the track to load the material), custom mounting plate with a precision turntable bearing and the Festool rail (track). Becomes a little more complicated if you want an angular reading built in to the pivot, way easier if you can live with setting the angle manually at the outboard end.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> @dovetail_65
> 
> How wide do you want to crosscut?
> 
> ...


I’m still trying to figure how one would justify putting saw score marks on $300 table top. 

I guess you have to assume the wood you’re using for your projects is worth more than the table top your cutting into.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Look at the top in the video


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Steven Owen said:


> I’m still trying to figure how one would justify putting saw score marks on $300 table top.
> 
> I guess you have to assume the wood you’re using for your projects is worth more than the table top your cutting into.


It's not 300.00, those tops are 75.00 and if you don't cut through what's the point? it's just MDF I make them with or without my cnc for about 20.00. 

I am over the MFT 's they are just not worth it FOR ME. I used them for years and as I said over it. I will be selling mine off soon enough.

I own more parf and Qwas dogs(I feel Parf totally stole the idea, in fact i know they did) than I care to count. With my new shop the MFT table are on their way out and I will be building a much better cut table for my needs. I was there at the beginning, probably one of the first in the US to even own an MFT, I bought one the day they first became available in the US, then the MFT3. I am just over the entire flimsy over priced scheme. I love certain Festools, the MFT not so much. If you live in an apartment an MFT might be for you, but that's about it.

This is what I think of my giant MFT:


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

dovetail_65 said:


> It's not 300.00, those tops are 75.00 and if you don't cut through what's the point? it's just MDF I make them with or without my cnc for about 20.00.
> 
> I am over the MFT 's they are just not worth it FOR ME. I used them for years and as I said over it. I will be selling mine off soon enough.
> 
> ...


The MTF is a $500 Table Festool charges $900. I like some Festool products. 

I’m not interested in getting drunk on green koolaid either. Bosch has some better products in their line-up.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Correction. The triton's longer track is 59 inches long, which is sufficient to cut the BB stock I generally use. Old eyes mistook the nine for a four.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> Correction. The triton's longer track is 59 inches long, which is sufficient to cut the BB stock I generally use. Old eyes mistook the nine for a four.


Triton is almost identical to the Makita. The Triton has better tracks and locking knobs, the Makita has more power.

If only the two could get together to build the ultimate track saw.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well that is why I use the Festool tracks with my Makita, I am not sure what the Triton is compatible with, but if they work with Festool tracks I would just get those.

Makita is due for an upgraded track saw that is for sure, if this goes another 2 years they will be left behind.


----------



## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

dovetail_65 said:


> I would love for the tracks saw makers to create a table like this or for "trim a table" make an attachment so track saw tracks can attach to it AND make it for plywood, (who knows maybe it already exists).
> 
> This is the Trim-A-Table™ 50, a circular saw guide with integral angle table used for aluminum siding. I would like to use it as a large plywood miter saw.
> 
> ...


This is reminiscent to the old craftsman cutting jig of 20 some years ago. The angles were not that accurate one of the first jig I ever bought soon was replaced by my Rockwell radial arm saw. It was also used by many for cutting siding.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah I remember that. I think today they can improve the precision, maybe making it work to within .1° movements.

It's just thought, I mean I can drag the sheet to saw horse's, chalk a line and cut so really my idea for what amounts to a huge sliding miter saw table would be a luxury. 

Say someone has to make cuts on 100 full 4x8 sheets in 4 hours and every single cut was either 90, a 45, a rip, a 22.5 just a mess of all different angles, even angles from corner to corner on a full 4x8 which would be 108" cut. 

I envision being able to toss on a full sheet and making these cuts simply by rotating the track(or the miter mechanism that the track attaches to) so that it clicks in at any angle we want. The ply wood have to be able to be slide back and forth laterally and any other method to allow us to start the cut anywhere along the 96" length of the plywood. And again cut any angle from ripping a sheet 96" lengthwise to cross cutting 48" and any angle in between in .1° increments for a full sheet. We load sheet, adjust starting point of cut, lock in angle,run the saw across the track, cut, pull ply off and reload, line up the ply start edge, rotate to your angle, lock it in and cut again, etc etc.

For me this would be the ultimate plywood worktable. How would we design it, not sure, but those aluminum siding set ups saw I was linking to might be a good start.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

dovetail_65 said:


> Yeah I remember that. I think today they can improve the precision, maybe making it work to within .1° movements.
> 
> It's just thought, I mean I can drag the sheet to saw horse's, chalk a line and cut so really my idea for what amounts to a huge sliding miter saw table would be a luxury.
> 
> ...


So, you have a lazy-susan bearing (over-simplification, you need something with a little more precision but there are a lot of options out there) - the bottom attaches to the top of the Festool hinged bracket off the MFT, and the track/rail attaches to the top - there's the pivot mechanism. Having the hinged bracket lets you adjust for material thickness as well as lift up the track to slide material underneath. If you want 1° increments, an Incra miter gauge might be the first idea, but thinking it would have to be scaled up because of the size of the pivot assembly, maybe something on the order of the Rockler Cross-Cut Sled. As far as the 48" cross-cut, my arms aren't that long, something in the 24" - 30" range seems more practical. Assuming the pivot is at the rear of the table, and the fence is parallel to the fence, you could set the angle manually each time referenced off the front edge - not fast buy maybe OK if you're not changing angles with each cut. Then there's the problem of locking the angle in, which would almost have to be done at the pivot. Detents may get complicated, so probably looking at some type of clamping mechanism.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@dovetail_65 The point of a tracksaw is you can place the track anywhere you want. Clip two lengths of track together, you get 118 inches of track, more than enough for a full diagonal cut on 4x8 ply sheets. What I'd want is a solid table so I could throw the sheets on it, and then make a set of simple jigs, each with a precisely cut angle I needed and some sort of overhang like a speed square. I'd make the jigs large enough to easily aligh the track. 

Sounds like you're talking about roofing, where you would have pretty predictable angles. Tossing ply onto a feeble table and moving around to preset angles would be asking a lot of anything buy a really hefty steel construction, or it would become inaccurate very fast. Make it of aluminum and the weight would be better for portable use, but very expensive to make the top rotate. I have no idea how much lateral force is applied to a table when you toss a 4x8 shet onto it, but I bet it's substantial enough to break joints down over time.

I think a very solid table and using angle setting jigs for the track is more likely to get the job done. I guess you could attach a clamp of some sort to the jig so it stays put might also help,.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> @dovetail_65 The point of a tracksaw is you can place the track anywhere you want. Clip two lengths of track together, you get 118 inches of track, more than enough for a full diagonal cut on 4x8 ply sheets. What I'd want is a solid table so I could throw the sheets on it, and then make a set of simple jigs, each with a precisely cut angle I needed and some sort of overhang like a speed square. I'd make the jigs large enough to easily aligh the track.
> 
> Sounds like you're talking about roofing, where you would have pretty predictable angles. Tossing ply onto a feeble table and moving around to preset angles would be asking a lot of anything buy a really hefty steel construction, or it would become inaccurate very fast. Make it of aluminum and the weight would be better for portable use, but very expensive to make the top rotate. I have no idea how much lateral force is applied to a table when you toss a 4x8 shet onto it, but I bet it's substantial enough to break joints down over time.
> 
> I think a very solid table and using angle setting jigs for the track is more likely to get the job done. I guess you could attach a clamp of some sort to the jig so it stays put might also help,.


 @DesertRatTom

That's kind of what I was thinking when I said to set the angle from the front, except I was thinking more about one of those large digital angle gauges - having a large jig for a number of angles would be cumbersome to handle and store (I believe Dovetail said that he only worked out of his shop so carrying them to a job site wouldn't be a problem). But, walking down the hallway to my computer this morning, it hit me - this is an MFT top, so you can drill holes in it and use Parf Dogs for angle stops. I don't know about 0.1° increments (although I do have an idea about that), but it would be pretty easy to have a row of holes along the front edge of the bench at the "common" angles - 90°, 45°, 22.5°, etc. You would need a drilling jig similar to the Parf, with the 3 mm hole in the center, and the OD identical to the collar on the Parf Dog. Pivot the track to the required angle, butt the drill jig up against the back edge of the track. clamp in place and drill the 3 mm pilot hole. Switch to the Parf Jig and drill the 20 mm hole - you now have a positive stop for the pivoting track at the required angle. And you can use the clips sold by Axminster (and now TSO Products) to hold the track tight to the tall Parf Dog - I have these and they work really well, a nice tight and solid connection.

Now, if you want "infinite" angle adjustment, you have a machine shop make you a part - picture a piece of flat bar the same width as the collar on the Parf Dog with the one end machined to the radius of the collar, and a post the same diameter as the reduced section of the Parf Dog located at the center of the end radius. The length of the part should allow for a couple of clamps. Using your Digital angle gauge, set the angle on the track and clamp it in place. Butt the combination stop against the back edge of the track and clamp it in place. Unclamp the track and you're good to go.

I made a "quickie" fixture for cutting the gable end siding when I was doing my garage - a "one time" assembly, but it worked out pretty well. Don't think though that I could cut panels at the rate of one every 2.4 minutes though.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

MY mistake is not starting a new thread called the ultimate plywood cut station. 

A clamp is used to hold two parts together, yet people attach them to tables, sleds and use them in thousands of way they were never intended. SO why can't i use a track saw any way I want?

I initially got the idea for the ultimate plywood cut station or table when I was using a panel saw and wished I could just pivot the thing to make a 45°, or a 22 °. or any angle really. I simply thought making it a horizontal table could be simpler and hey why not use a track saw to do it. I never said this is going to replace the traditional method of using a track saw. Basically all I am proposing is a horizontal panel saw that cuts angles, the track was a means to an ends, nothing more. 

I do not understand the resistance to the idea, there are loads of large, stable, shop, cut tables that people use to cut ply. They are not as safe, accurate, precise or as fast as what I propose. Just because you don't have a use for it doesn't mean it's not a cool idea For Me.

I have owned a track saw since the day the first one became available in the US, at least in my area. I know the purpose of a track saw is. If I haven't owned one longer than 98% of the USA people on the site I'll be surprised. What you are missing is "the point of a track saw" is whatever I want the point of it to be to make my work better.

I felt you threw me a dig, why say "the point of a track saw is". If it's not a dig then to me it's a short sighted view. Ill use a track and make the point of it anything at all. I have thick skin, but wasting my time making posts while I can be working is not smart for me. I'll stay with helping newbs with issues.

I should never even brought it up in the thread, my mistake. I'll think long and hard before I post a topic for a new certain type clamping table I have had trouble designing. It's just tiring getting my point across.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

dovetail_65 said:


> MY mistake is not starting a new thread called the ultimate plywood cut station.
> 
> A clamp is used to hold two parts together, yet people attach them to tables, sleds and use them in thousands of way they were never intended. SO why can't i use a track saw any way I want?
> 
> ...


Since I posted that, I want to assure you that I was not putting your idea down in any way. If you took offense, I apologize, it was not meant to be anything more than trying to work out a way to accomplish what you are proposing that could work for my situation, and was inexpensive. 

One of the problems I have in working with large sheet goods is that at my age, I really have difficulty horsing around those heavy sheets. So I tend to lay them up against the cutting table, and lift them into place. When I do this, it's generally on 2x4s laid on a pair of saw horses. Invariably the whole platform shifts. So I was trying to work out how I could use your idea in my shop, as well as on a job site where speed is essential and the angles are well known. 

Again, I want to make sure you know I was not putting down you or your idea. It is clear you were working it out, a process I enjoy doing. Your idea would probably make an interesting product.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am probably a bit sensitive caused by other things going wrong in the shop. I have been up 36 hours and the sun is coming up yet again.

Yeah handling plywood is a huge issue for me, the weight the size, it's the part of my job I dislike most.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

dovetail_65 said:


> ...Yeah handling plywood is a huge issue for me, the weight the size, it's the part of my job I dislike most.


:smile: Got it. I often forget to put gloves on when handling ply and then have to dig out splinters. Minor, but no fun. 

I mostly use 60x60 BB, but with all the layers and glue, I think it's heavier per sqft than HD 4x8 sheets. I can manage one sheet, but not two.

Get some sleep, it's really easy to make mistakes when you're really fatigued like that. Then you have to go back and redo the darn thing.


----------



## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wow I just woke up after 5 hours sleep and feel like I could sleep for another day, this deadline is something else this week. Friday I leave on a trip for 12 days and I asked my wife to please just let me lay around and do nothing at all, I just can not run around 12 hours a day sightseeing. The last trip a few months ago I came home wiped out, getting in the shop was a relief.

Yep, I had five 60"x60" sheets delivered a few days ago, thankfully it was 1/2" and not 3/4". With the 60" BB the edges are so clean and razor sharp I get big paper cuts if I forget my gloves,. It seems I have to get cut to remind me to put on the gloves,. I get huge splinters and plywood cuts a couple times a month, I still haven't learned after after all these years. I can't wear glove for much of my work, my eyes aren't as good as my finger tips and I tell my wife I must feel the wood, I can feel a gap these eyes can't see. Stating about a month ago for the first time in my life I literally can not work without my glasses, I am thinking lasik for me,but I am scared to death of that laser in my eye. But having to wear these glasses make me crazy and I have tried contacts I just cant wear them. 

Anything I can do to make handling and cutting the plywood easier I am all for, the track saw and a panel saw were a good start.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DO NOT DO LASIK!!!! It has a lot of nasty side effects and there is not one single 5 year study of the current method, so the long term effects are not very well studied. The eye surgeons fudge the results by not considering dry eye as a serious issue. But many people with lasik--about a third--wind up having to put in drops every couple of hours. 

What they are doing is burning away some of the most delicate, transparent tissues in the body. The cure if there's a issue is work with impaired sight or have a cadaver transplant, which has very high complications. The risk is that you can't work because you can't see as well as you do now, and glasses don't necessarily help. There are other issues, but you couldn't get me to do that procedure for any money!

Don't do it! I'm not an eye doctor, but have been in the eyecare field for almost 36 years. Cataract surgery is a miracle, Lasik is a money maker for doctors who do it, but a third of patients don't love it.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

_I am scared to death of that laser in my eye_.

Don't be. That's the best thing my wife and I have ever done...except for getting married and having kids. In my wife's case, she had worn glasses since she was seven. For the last 28 years, she hasn't needed them. She just turned 69. I had it done about 20 years ago. Because of the shape of my corneas, they couldn't totally correct my vision. But, it did stop the deterioration. I still need glasses. But my vision hasn't changed since the Lasik. With the glasses, I'm 20/20.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

dovetail_65 said:


> Wow I just woke up after 5 hours sleep and feel like I could sleep for another day, this deadline is something else this week. Friday I leave on a trip for 12 days and I asked my wife to please just let me lay around and do nothing at all, I just can not run around 12 hours a day sightseeing. The last trip a few months ago I came home wiped out, getting in the shop was a relief.
> 
> Yep, I had five 60"x60" sheets delivered a few days ago, thankfully it was 1/2" and not 3/4". With the 60" BB the edges are so clean and razor sharp I get big paper cuts if I forget my gloves,. It seems I have to get cut to remind me to put on the gloves,. I get huge splinters and plywood cuts a couple times a month, I still haven't learned after after all these years. I can't wear glove for much of my work, my eyes aren't as good as my finger tips and I tell my wife I must feel the wood, I can feel a gap these eyes can't see. Stating about a month ago for the first time in my life I literally can not work without my glasses, I am thinking lasik for me,but I am scared to death of that laser in my eye. But having to wear these glasses make me crazy and I have tried contacts I just cant wear them.
> 
> Anything I can do to make handling and cutting the plywood easier I am all for, the track saw and a panel saw were a good start.


I hate slivers , and wear those gloves that are thin rubber on the front and cotton on the backside . I swear every second time I forget to put them on I get a sliver 

LASIK and is pretty much refined now , I wouldn't be to concerned . Had one eye done , and it wasn't to unpleasant . Not everyone is a candidate though depending on your eyes . There's always the chance of infection , because you have to use a steroid to heal it . Rare issue , unless your me


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I hate slivers , and wear those gloves that are thin rubber on the front and cotton on the backside . I swear every second time I forget to put them on I get a sliver
> 
> LASIK and is pretty much refined now , I wouldn't be to concerned . Had one eye done , and it wasn't to unpleasant . Not everyone is a candidate though depending on your eyes . There's always the chance of infection , because you have to use a steroid to heal it . Rare issue , unless your me


I don't know anyone who has had lasik who has not had issues. And depending on the doctor's philosophy on acuitiy, you are likely to need to wear glasses for close up work at minimum. Having been in the eye care field so long, I would NEVER consider this surgery. If it turns out well, that's good news, but chances are one in three that it won't be what patients expect. The standard for Lasik is being violated by many OMDs, and it is pretty clear that's happening for financial reasons in many cases.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

When Tom’s ready. Hopefully he can write a review for the Triton using Infinity’s blade. The Triton’s stock blade is passible. It would be nice to see how it handles with a professional blade.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Steven Owen Haven't forgotten, but one eye just won't stop giving me grief and I can't really see all that well yet. That new blade is mighty pretty. Nice thick carbide in the teeth so it will sharpen many times for heavy users. Noticeably thicker than the stock blade, so I don't want to cut the rubber edge line with the stock blade.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> @Steven Owen Haven't forgotten, but one eye just won't stop giving me grief and I can't really see all that well yet. That new blade is mighty pretty. Nice thick carbide in the teeth so it will sharpen many times for heavy users. Noticeably thicker than the stock blade, so I don't want to cut the rubber edge line with the stock blade.


That’s unfortunate. I want to make a new China Cabinet for my Mom and a new desk for me:

I’m pretty much stuck with having to cough-up a prettier penny for the Festool TS 75. 

There’s not many track saw options for anything that can handle 2 inch solid wood top cuts.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@steve Owen

How much call are you going to have to cut 2" thick hardwood? It doesn't make a lot of sense (financially anyway) to spend all that extra money for the additional capacity for a one-time project.

I've cut many 1-1/2" thick maple countertops with a circular saw and straight edge and had more than acceptable cuts - you need a good solid saw, and a high-quality sharp blade.

I don't know about the Triton (or Festool either to be honest), but my Makita is giving more than acceptable cuts in 3/4" plywood, and just humming through the cuts. Are there some aspects of the Makita that could be changed? - of course there are, but the same thing can be said about pretty much every tool out there. How many tool reviews have you read where the reviewer had absolutely no criticism, however minor?


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> @steve Owen
> 
> How much call are you going to have to cut 2" thick hardwood? It doesn't make a lot of sense (financially anyway) to spend all that extra money for the additional capacity for a one-time project.
> 
> ...


The TS 75 isn’t that badly priced once you consider they include a 75 inch track.

I only use plywood for drawers. I’ll never be cutting the board down the 8 foot length. Cuts in hardwood sections is going to be my primary use. Breakdown sheets for the Table Saw will be the secondary use.

I just want to buy this Saw once. I also want to minimize the number of power tools required to get a perfect edge. The TS 75 is a bit heavy for plywood, it’s the top rated track saws for clean edge hardwood cuts while preserving the scrap edge.

Makita hasn’t done anything to refine the performance of the SP6000 on the wasted side of the board. When you’re cutting pricey walnut and Mahogany. You want to make use of the scrap for other jobs.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

FYI, just posted a review of the Triton TTS 1400 plunge/tracksaw. Gave it an 8.5, assuming the Festool was a 10. The Festool 75 inch track is a NICE item.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

It looks like Mafell might be the reason why there’s no Bosch track saws in North America. Mafell is manufacturing the Bosch plunge saw; I guess they don’t want cheaper Blue painted Mafell cutting into their sales in North America.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I posted my review in a separate thread, but thought I'd repost it here as well. I also get to clean up some spelling goofs here.

After a couple of weeks delay, here's the promised review of the Triton plunge/track saw, Model TTS 1400. I purchased this on sale about a month ago from Rockler. I also purchased the 59 inch long track for it and the two, 27 inch short tracks, since I wanted sufficient length to cut 5 ft sq BB ply.

First step was replacing the stock blade with a 165 mm Infinity purpose built blade. This had a slightly wider kerf than the Triton and the carbide teeth look to be slightly wider and noticeably thicker for potentially more sharpenings. Replacement was easy. There is a small switch with two overlapping circles beside the top of the plunge handle. This is the setting for changing blades. Press down on the handle and the blade goes down just far enough to reveal the bolt and washer that hold the blade on. The saw clicks and holds this position until you are finished. Slide the blade out the bottom slot, slide the new blade in, put the washer and bolt back in and tighten. There is a push button that when pressed in, locks the blade so it won't rotate. A handy item is that the Allen wrench used to loosen/tighten the bolt fits in an opening in the upper handle so you won't lose it.

Next order of busines was connecting one short track to the long one, since you must trim the rubber hold down strip before first use. I was disappointed to discover that one of the short tracks did not quite line up with the long track, in fact, this raised portion caused the saw to hang up slightly when passing the joint. I will see about a replacement. The other segment lined up correctly. Be sure to get the alignment right before tightening the set screws on the connectors. The connectors are two strips so the set screws engage the top and bottom of the two T tracks into which they fit. There is a very tiny bit of play that will permit you to align the two tracks before cinching them down tight with the supplied allen wrench. I stowed the wrench in the instruction book, otherwise I'll surely lose track of it.

You trim the edge using the scoring setting. The same switch that allows changing the blade has a second circle symbol with a line drawn through the edge of the circle for the scribe cut setting. This limits the plunge to about 3/16ths below the track. I did this with two 2x4s set side by side. The scribe cut was clean and crisp. This produces a nice clean edge on the rubber. The anti friction tape on the tracks did their job so sliding the saw was smooth and easy. You must turn the anti kickback knob on the side of the saw's base to allow it to slide backwards on the track. 

The knobs... The blade side of the saw contains several settings. The trunion adjustment allows setting the blade angle anywhere from 90 to about 48 degrees. Very solid and seems to be precise. There is a depth of cut limiting knob that you set so the teeth just clear the workpiece. I think I set it to go too deep, so as the teeth came up out of the workpiece, it tore out fine splinters in the outside. The cut was very clean under the rubber hold down side.

If you look at the pictures, you'll see several strips cut from the same piece of BB ply. The top edge is the roughest and was cut with my DeWalt 18v circular saw with a fairly fine blade. It was the exit side of the cut. The middle narrow strip shows the tearout from the Triton on the unprotected edge. This ply has been sitting in our very dry weather for months and I think that contributed to the problem. The third strip was cut with the Triton with blue tape on the edge and has almost no tearout. Blue painter's tape will be a regular thing for me. I think I also need to reduce the depth of cut so the whole gullet isn't visible below the workpiece. A shallower angle slice might help with tearout. The only problem edge is the one not supported where the blade exits. All other edges are very clean. I have not tried a piece of melamine, so I can't comment on chip out. I suspect that with the Infinity blade, scribing and keeping the good side down, it will be slight

Dust collection was quite good. The picture shows the residue after 3 cuts. The DC port happened to fit into a hose I got from Lowes. I'll be using some of Rockler's stretchy tape to seal this a little better, but there was no dust flying around at all. My hose terminates in a 4 inch connector that fits into my HF DC unit. I use the same setup to clean out my table saw, but I'll keep the hose in the garage shop with the track saw. I was expecting mediocre performance on DC, so this was a very pleasant surprise.

It takes a little while to figure out what all the knobs do, but they mostly have to do with fitting the saw tight to the track. There are holes at the end of each track so you can hang them up, out of harm's way.

Power on this saw seemed to be a little light. You will want to let it run up to speed before plunging, then let it wind to a stop before lifting the saw off the track. It is close to 10 lbs, and if I had to lift it all day long, it would be unpleasant. If I were doing construction, expecially finish work, I'd pop for the Festool, but for my purposes the Triton TTS1400 is a very nice choice

Over all, I'd give this an 8.5 to 9 on a scale of 10. Worth the near $500 I paid for the whole kit and kaboodle. But I will definitely be using painter's tape or scoring cuts with it for best results.

Nice to get back in the shop again. And this is much easier to read than the original. Good writing is all about editing.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Finally got back out in the shop and had to cut the bottom for a pull-out shelf, thought I'd post these photos of the cut my Makita made on a piece of 1/2" birch plywood - standard Makita blade that came with the saw, the offcut edge is to the right, just like the first photo, cut with the "good face" down (force of habit). I bought the plywood at HD so it's probably not A1 grade, but more than good enough for a drawer bottom. I've been pretty satisfied with the cut I've been getting with this saw - the Makita blade actually gets pretty high scores in the reviews that I've read. I'll see how it holds up to some more use before deciding whether I need to spend the money for an Infinity blade.


----------



## KennK (Mar 7, 2012)

Steven Owen said:


> There’s not many track saw options for anything that can handle 2 inch solid wood top cuts.


Eurekazone.com (EZ Smart tracks and accessories) sells a beefy EZ Ready Makita® 5104 Circular Saw with a 10-1/4" blade (listed at $545 for the saw only). Off the track it has a 3.375 inches depth of cut at 90 degrees. With base on track the depth of cut is 3.0 inches at 90 degrees.

Their EZ Ready Makita® 5008MGA Circular Saw with an 8-1/4" blade (listed at $299 for the saw only) has an off track depth of cut of 2.5 inches at 90 degrees. With base on track the depth of cut is 2 1/8 inches at 90 degrees.

The EZ Ready saws come with the Smart Base, front dust ports, and flexible plastic dust shields added. I have two at this point - the Hitachi and the Makita MGA5007. If you want to save a few bucks and buy the saw and install the Smart Base yourself, you can do that. For the larger saw you might want to call Eurekazone.com to make sure you're getting the right base. I know the standard Smart Base fits on most circular saw, but not sure about the real big one.

The guide rails (tracks) come in several lengths, but I would suggest a 64" guide rail for most uses (it provides a "launch pad" for the saw, plus the 48" to cross cut plywood), and then add a 54" guide rail if you want to have an 8 foot cut length:

32" guide rail: $75, 54" guide rail: $112, 64" guide rail: $132, 72" guide rail: $149. The guide rails come with sized plastic anti-chip edges that provide clean cuts on the guide rail side of the kerf. The anti-chip insert on the Smart Base provides a clean cut on the non-guide rail side of the kerf. This youtube.com video shows how the anti-chip rails provide clean cuts and how the fin insert prevent kickback on off-rail cuts: 



 . Search youtube.com using "eurekazone" to find videos that introduce the related accessories.

You'd also want a set of two regular EZ Smart Clamps ($28), and, if you want to connect two tracks you'll want a set of two outside channel guide rail connectors ($30) per joint. If the total length of combined tracks is more than 110" you'll want to add a center channel guide rail connector ($14) per joint.

BTW, I have no financial connection to Eurekazone - except that I've been using their guide rails and accessories since 2008 - when I'd all but given up on being able to safely cut plywood. I'd lowered myself to using a jigsaw and a hand saw - honestly!!

Ken


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> Finally got back out in the shop and had to cut the bottom for a pull-out shelf, thought I'd post these photos of the cut my Makita made on a piece of 1/2" birch plywood - standard Makita blade that came with the saw, the offcut edge is to the right, just like the first photo, cut with the "good face" down (force of habit). I bought the plywood at HD so it's probably not A1 grade, but more than good enough for a drawer bottom. I've been pretty satisfied with the cut I've been getting with this saw - the Makita blade actually gets pretty high scores in the reviews that I've read. I'll see how it holds up to some more use before deciding whether I need to spend the money for an Infinity blade.


There’s a lot of complaints about parts coming off the Makita. Whether its a factual critism or guys who are dunk on Green Koolaid, it’s hard to tell.


----------



## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

I found a new use for my track saw today. Shaving the edge off a elect plate that is in the way of the new counter I just finished.


----------



## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

It also worked very well for trimming laminate to rough size before applying the contact cement.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Everend said:


> It also worked very well for trimming laminate to rough size before applying the contact cement.


I'll have to keep that in mind for the next time - I have a little extrusion made to fit along/under the fence to stop the laminate from slipping under. Always remember about it after I've juggled the sheet through the saw holding the RH edge up off the table so it doesn't slide under the fence - maybe I should add a hook to the saw cabinet and hang it there so I know where it is.


----------



## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Right, it slides under the fence and sometimes rides up the blade and jumps. That's how I started this project. Then part way through I remembered I had a track saw, I put down that piece of plywood, set the blade to 1/8" so it only minimally scored the plywood under the laminate. Cut it very clean! I also used clamps to hold the track to the plywood, sandwiching the laminate between the track and the plywood. It worked very well!


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Love all the usage suggestions. Creative bunch.


----------



## Steven Owen (Aug 14, 2017)

I wonder if the XP6000 is going to become the ugly step child of the Makita line-up. 

There’s seven new blades being designed to expand the functionality of the XPS01PTJ. They fixed several problems people complained about in the design of the XP6000. The XPS01PTJ cordless has a better handle, better dust port design, improved egonomics better knobs, and a smoother plunge.

Makita has zero plans to do anything to fix or improve the XP6000 design. None of new high performance blades will be designed to work with the XP6000. All the new blades will be exclusive to the X2 platform based XPS01PTJ.

It’s kind of annoying but I guess you can’t sell battery upgrades for the XP6000.


----------

