# Table Saws



## whirligig (Apr 11, 2015)

I'm beginning to suspect that my shoulders were not attached to my body properly. Either that or my eyes are slightly out of whack with my brain. In any event, everything I ever try to cut straight with a handsaw is what my partner politely refers to as 'rustic'. Now I admit, I could practice cutting straighter, but that appeals far less to the little boy inside me who likes machinery that cuts stuff. So I have to (alright, want to) get a table saw.

But I have no idea which one to buy. I'm finding myself drowning in a see of google reviews and '10 best table saw' links. So I wondered if anyone had any advice? It has to be easy to move around as I have to work outside, and I'm planning on using it a lot to cut everything from 2" blocks on down. Naturally I'd prefer not to spend a lot of money too, though I know that sometimes can't be avoided.

So not too picky then! :wink: Anyone got any advice/suggestions?


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## vzbingo (Mar 1, 2012)

Hi Ben. I can't say which is the best one to buy, although I lean toward Bosch here. But I'd buy the best one I can afford because you'll be using it for quite awhile, or else grumbling for awhile.


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## todd628 (Mar 8, 2015)

Ben I do not know if you can get Grizzly stuff there but if you look at my shop it is full of Grizzly green. I have been buying from them since they opened in the late 70's. I continue to upgrade with their products because I don't think you can get a bigger bang for your buck......

Have a blessed Sunday and have fun making some dust, Todd


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ben if you compromise to much you end up with a fence that will cause nothing but grief . 
My first table saw a delta 10" contractors version , but luckily mine came with a Biesemeyer fence . I love this fence as its a tank with very little deflection . 
If you could find a second hand one like that at a decent price you'd be ahead of the game IMO


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Ben...best advice is to buy the best saw within your budget...especially if it needs to be mobile. It might be worth considering to spend the extra $100 to get a better saw considering the life you might expect of it...

As for the hand saw...lose but firm grip on the handle... If you play pool, think of it the same way...elbow bent, comfortable, swing in a nice arc and straight to and fro like a cue stick. Stand with your opposite shoulder slightly forward of the saw hand...this way your elbow won't hit your ribs. Make a good straight pencil line, cut the line first and then use the cut as sort of a guide. If you over-grip you will find it trying to cut sort of like a figure-eight. Practice with a cue stick so you can see if the tip wanders left and right. Take short strokes at first and then comfortably and with light hand grip take longer strokes. Cut using the 2/3's of the blade closes to your hand (the wider part). Practice on soft wood like pine 2X4's, then graduate to plywood, then to hardwood. Use a long saw rather than a shorty like a hand miter saw...your long strokes will feel and look better. When starting the cut, take very short but steady strokes then lengthen your stroke a little at a time...remember the cue stick...let your arm hang and let the saw do the work...don't force it and don't apply any down pressure until you've mastered a nice straight stroke...apply a little more pressure as you go deeper into the cut. Also...try not to watch the teeth part of the cut...look a little behind it towards the end of the blade...it will help with eye-hand coordination...your peripheral will take care of the uncut side...

Good luck...have fun...


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## houdini28 (Dec 10, 2011)

I recommend watching the episode "Sawing Secrets" from the 2010-2011 season of the Woodwright's Shop. The episode can be found here. Grip the saw like you're holding a bird. Too tight and you crush the bird, too loose and it flies away. Also nice wide stance.

As others have echoed, buy the best table saw you can afford.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

A little trick I learned from my woodworking teacher re the handsaw:
If you can see a reflection in the face of the saw blade, keep the woods's edge reflection in a straight line with the actual edge. If there's a bend in the edge~ edge-reffection you're not plumb and perpendicular to the edge. (in other words the edge and its reflection should form a perfectly straight line)
If that doesn't seem to make sense just try it with your saw...it'll make sense then.
It's critical that you keep that optical reference as you proceed through the cut.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

For a portable I'd go Bosch. Dewalt would be a close second but the Bosch has a great folding leg system.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Not sure what the availability of used saws are in your neck of the woods, but I'd explore that avenue first.
The Bosch on the gravity rise stand gets great reviews. My neighbour has one and loves it. My only concern with it is there is not much room from the front of the table to the blade so you're limited to a smaller panel sled if you were going to make one.

Bosch is coming out (if they haven't already) with a safety device similar to the Sawstop.
And has been mentioned already, if you're looking at a contractor's saw or a cabinet saw, the fence will make all the difference.

I'm currently using a 50+ year old Beaver 8 inch and does most of what I need, but the fence on those old saws is not great.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Since portability is high on your list of priorities right now, I'd suggest a jobsite saw. No, it won't be your forever saw if you get serious about woodworking, but it's a good starting place from where you are. It's a pretty competitive market with decent offerings from Bosch and Dewalt that I know of in the big box stores. Makita probably makes a good jobsite saw too. Stay away from Craftsman, Black & Decker and Ryobi. As others have said, buy the best (most expensive) you can afford within types. Good Luck and Welcome.


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## JJ.the.Dane (Dec 27, 2011)

Contractor portable saw? If So, Bosch 4100. You can get a $100 digital readout.
If full cabinet saw, look for a used Powermatic on Craigslist. Make sure it comes with a Biesemeyer fence. You can buy a $100 electronic readout for this as well.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

I highly recommend the Bosch. I tried a Porter Cable, however I couldn't get it to hold the depth of the cut using a dado blade. It dropped 1/4" in 30" of Cedar. No way to adjust it or tighten anything. As Stick would probably say, I finally got smart and got the Bosch.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

old coasty said:


> I highly recommend the Bosch. I tried a Porter Cable, however I couldn't get it to hold the depth of the cut using a dado blade. It dropped 1/4" in 30" of Cedar. No way to adjust it or tighten anything. As Stick would probably say, I finally got smart and got the Bosch.


I'm starting to think that Stick owns stock in Bosch. Fact is I wish that I did.

When I recently bought my Bosch jig saw and told my wife the brand, her remark was "That sounds great, that's the brand of our dish washer and it a very good machine". So, I understand Stick's position on the brand.

The only other Bosch tool in my shop is a six inch ROS and it a very good sander. It along with 3X Norton ceramic disks which Stick suggested to me, works great.



Jerry


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Didn't see anyone mention it so I will. Keep in mind that many of the small saws have small tables and the miter slots size are not a standard size making them "proprietary". Which means you are stuck buying their accessories. I am a big believer in using jigs for table saw chores. Some small saws are not very useful for jigs. I have a Delta Unisaw which works very well IF you have the room in your shop and the dollars in the bank. I also have Ryobi BT 3000 which is a good small saw. The downside is it is out of production and hard to find parts for. Not a problem with the Delta. Many companies will change the design of the smaller saws frequently and that could be a problem. My advice is to stick with something that is affordable to you, meets your particular needs and is a company that you can count on for parts 10 years down the road. Woodworkers tend to recommend the tools that they have in their shop. That may be good or bad. Good based on their experience or bad because it's not suitable for your particular circumstances.
So think about what YOU expect from a saw then buy the best you can afford. 

An old carpenter told me: you can buy the good tools once in your lifetime or buy the cheap stuff over and over. Just saying......


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'd never ever buy a used jobsite saw....
too much/many if ands or buts....
buy reconditioned... CPO is a good place to start...

FWIW... I have 3 of the 4000's and two 4100's...
no issues and years of very hard service

buddy had the DeWalt... used my Bosch for several days.. 
dumped his DW and got a Bosch...
Bosch customer service and support is outstanding...
even though the 4000 is discontinued I can still get repairs and parts if need be...

think twice about the digital readout...
smack it during transport and it's recalibration time...
besides the scale on the no issue versatile fence is right on...

the 4100 will accept a full width 8'' dado blade set...
you can not use a wobble style dado blade on it...
infeed table adaptable...
27½" cut to the right of the blade...
optional left and rear supports available...
reverse the outfeed support for 14" of infeed support but you'll find that you won't need to...
I use full sized sleds on mine..
w/ a helper full sized panels are very doable...
dust collection is easy to do...
after market accessories work on these saws...

*Notes...*
don't starve the saw electrically... 
20 amp circuit and no light weight or excessively long extension cords...
wax the table and slides...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> ...
> 
> FWIW... I have 3 of the 4000's and two 4100's...
> no issues and years of very hard service
> ...


Stick:

I didn't realize the outfeed support could be used as an infeed support. What depth of panel (front to back) does your sled allow you to crosscut. I'm trying to move my larger dust creating tools to the garage and considered the 4100 with gravity rise as it stows away nicely, but hesitated because of the short distance to the blade.

Vince


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

it's something I discovered...
remove the outfeed support and install it from the front... 
my sleds are 24 and 30x48'' and I never use infeed support w/ them...
if you run into issues counter balance the sled...
if you are cross cutting panels there is no need for a sled o...
once set up the saw is very accurate...

what sized panels are you cutting...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Width of panel is 23 1/4 - to allow for a 3/4 inch face frame - standard cabinet depth.
I'm trying to square up one edge before cross cutting to final dimension. My saw is a small Beaver 8", with the two extension wings and my sled is small as well - has the fence on the operator side only with two slot runners. Can't overhang the front edge without the sled tipping. I may revert to the original sled that "Norm" used with the sled fence leading the way, one slot guide.

Or I may have to fashion a square fence on my circular saw jig


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Width of panel is 23 1/4 - to allow for a 3/4 inch face frame - standard cabinet depth.
> I'm trying to square up one edge before cross cutting to final dimension. My saw is a small Beaver 8", with the two extension wings and my sled is small as well - has the fence on the operator side only with two slot runners. Can't overhang the front edge without the sled tipping. I may revert to the original sled that "Norm" used with the sled fence leading the way, one slot guide.
> 
> Or I may have to fashion a square fence on my circular saw jig


parallel rip to width....
reverse your miter gage and follow it through...

parallel rip to width....
use a framing square to set your clamp on edge guide square and use your CS...

add two folding shelf brackets to the front of the saw...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

If portable is your choice, I second the Bosch jobsite saw. Never a complaint around here about it. However, if you have a shop of any sort, I strongly recommend you invest in a really good table saw. Prices are all over the map. After an exhaustive (I mean exactly that), I bought a Laguna Fusion 10 inch saw. I thought long and hard about a SawStop, but the price to value was completely out of whack, and since I do lots of outdoor projects with redwood (often moist) I knew I'd forget to turn the safety device off and pow! There goes about 140 bucks in blade and replacement cartridge. That was out, and safety is in the head, not a device. So I looked at everything out there and after feeling up every saw, I came to the conclusion that the Laguna was the best bet. Had it 3 years now and love that it is still perfectly aligned, has a top so flat that there is only one small area that is .0015 off, which is considered flat for all practical purposes. I got the 36 inch model because my shop is too small for the 52 inch model, which is very little more. Dust collection is under the table and very good. It arrived in a wooden crate and took only an hour or so for us to set up. Amazingly, everything on the saw was aligned perfectly! I would never expect such a thing, but Laguna is out to make the best of anything it produces, so I think someone assembled this unit before packing it up. I got the 115 v model, which is an honest 1.75 hp. The motor is American made and can be converted to 220 v. The fence is Biesemeyer (spelling?) and holds adjustment perfectly. I really like this saw, in case you can't tell. For the money, I don't think you can beat it, particularly since the build is so well done. Go fondle one before you buy anything else. BTW, I am still working on buying their 14/Twelve band saw. Visited their warehouse awhile ago and made the mistake of checking it out. On my wish list.


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## williamm (Oct 10, 2011)

*My experience*

I thought that I could get by with an inexpensive small jobsite saw so I got a new one from HD for around 200. That lasted a year. The small things I was cutting were dangerous to me with the flimsy insert supplied and I couldn't figure out how to make it safe. I gave it away. Then I went to a Craftsman model for 300. It lasted about half that long since I couldn't buy and had difficulty making accessories for it because of the small miter grooves and over-lying tabs to keep the miter in place. It is now in the garage storage.
I finally went to a full size Craftsman 10 inch table saw with cast iron table. I am now very happy (except for the wasted money getting here). I have standard grooves. I can make zero clearance inserts. I have a solid safe insert. And it even has wheels.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> parallel rip to width....
> *reverse your miter gage and follow it through...*
> 
> parallel rip to width....
> ...


Sometimes the easiest solution is the least obvious.

Thanks


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## whirligig (Apr 11, 2015)

Thanks guys. Some really good advice. I think the bosch seems to get the most reliable reviews, so it's the current front runner. Over here it's the gts 10 series I think, not the 4100. Now I just have to sell a kidney to afford the darn thing......


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

whirligig said:


> Thanks guys. Some really good advice. I think the bosch seems to get the most reliable reviews, so it's the current front runner. Over here it's the gts 10 series I think, not the 4100. Now I just have to sell a kidney to afford the darn thing......


is it the GTS 10J 1030, 1031 or the 10XC???
if it is it's a world different from the 4100...

same motor but the table configurations aren't the same...
the 10J is really small and the 10XC is a serious upgrade from the 4100 and has an infeed extension...


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Ever see someone set a tack with an eight pound sledge hammer? A first question might have been:

What do you (plan to) do and how often? 
What is your budget? 
Where do you cut and how much real estate can you commit to your work area?
Does it need to be mobile/portable or can it be something that can stay set up in it's own area?
(And in the UK) Are you regulated into buying a TS with a blade brake? 

I have a few table saws and they get used... (Jobsite, cabinet and panel saws) But some people could get by for years (possibly their whole life) with a good circular saw and a cutting guide (along the lines of a track saw).

There's a lot on recommendations based on the above questions.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Ben you're looking to buy the heart of your workshop, so of all the tools you might buy this is the one not to skimp on. Ask yourself how portable it really has to be. If you only need to move it around your shop floor then you can buy a really good heavy duty cast iron one along with a base on wheels. If you have to move it from job site to job site then you can buy an okay saw that will cut wood and will probably make you happy since you won't have any thing to compare it to. For a good shop saw that will stay in the workshop, only consider saws that have a separate belt driven motor. A quality cabinet saw would be the one to buy and either a Powermatic or a Unisaw would fit your needs for a lifetime. A good 25 year old used one can be had for $1000 or less, I've seen them every now and then on Craigslist for $500 to $800. If possible stay away from Chinese ones the sheet metal that you see on the outside looks nice but the castings are cheap and in 5 to 20 years the parts won't be available to fix them. What ever saw you end up with get a good fence system. Expect to pay in the $200 to $300 dollar range for the fence alone. If your getting a new saw and fence for $700 dollars then you're pretty much getting a casual use saw.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Ben, IMHO, buy the best fence you can afford.......


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## mbar57 (Apr 20, 2015)

I'd just like to throw out a thank you to everyone who posted here!! I went out yesterday and purchased my first table saw. After reading the opinions here I got the Bosch 4100 with the gravity stand, and I absolutely love it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

And that, Mike, is the bottom line! 
If you're pleased with it, that's all that need be said. May you have many many years of pleasure and satisfaction from it.
Work safely, eh!!!


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Just to go against the crowd I'm a contractor and I've recently bought a plungesaw and some track for it.
I have just about zero need for a tablesaw and have managed for the last eleven years without a tablesaw of my own.
The odd occasion I get one to use at work and they are Ok, but using them takes up a LOT of space.
To rip down a sheet of ply its eight foot infeed, eight out and that's without the size of the saw and having space for me.

Now I bought a Festool TS55 REQ (about £355 for the saw and 1400mm of track, plus another 50 or so quid for another 1400 track.
You need the saw to be on the track fully (both guide adjusters on the saw base) at the beginning and end of the cut so 2700 is about the minimum track you need to cut 2440 (or 8' in old money)

Its very portable and as accurate as any table saw I've ever used. To be fair its better than most proper dimension saws I've used as well although not so fast on repeat cuts.

I thought at first that all it did was good accurate straight cuts in sheet goods but I'm learning more every day.


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