# I'm not trying to reinvent the drill press wheel...



## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

...but I'm just wondering why they might not have finished inventing it. :smile:

Just wondering why we have a 3 handle grip, similar to spokes on a wagon wheel with no rim, as opposed to a full wheel with a grip on it for lowering the quill on a drill press. Like we have on table saws for raising and lowering the blade, only larger. What's the history on it, or reason for the current design?


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

No body will pay for it.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Just guessing here, but don't you think that the longer spokes are for gaining leverage when drilling through tougher materials? The longer the moment arm, the more your input is amplified. You wouldn't be able to generate as much downward force with a wheel. As far as having three spokes, it make sense to have at least that many to guarantee that you always have a comfortable angle to apply leverage. Sorry this doesn't directly address you question Duane, but the engineering is sound.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

money saver...


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## Knot2square (Jul 11, 2015)

One of the reasons I believe is so that on short runs on the drill press you can remove the handles as needed when they get in the way, especially if you have a larger drill press table and fence. I have to remove my handles one at a time on many occasions while using my fence.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Duane,
Go onto the web and buy a cheapie suicide knob.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Not a bad idea Ron. I assume you mean to drill and tap a hole for it in one of the knobs on a spoke?

Duane I have been considering what you are suggesting. It might be a little shy on leverage in metals but it would be more than adequate in drilling wood. However large wheels like that aren't cheap. I know they are available from Essentra.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Charles,
I don't know, there are so many different clamp set-ups ones bound to be close enough to minimize or eliminate modifications to the DP or knob, I'd hate to drill out a spoke knob, crack it then not be able to glue it back or get a replacement. My DP is 25 yrs old and whoever owns Delta now probably dumped/discontinued all parts and inventory to punish owners.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Knot2square said:


> One of the reasons I believe is so that on short runs on the drill press you can remove the handles as needed when they get in the way, especially if you have a larger drill press table and fence. I have to remove my handles one at a time on many occasions while using my fence.


Steve, there's a simple solution to that. Cut a contour in your DP fence, and a T slot in the back of the fence. Then just slide the fence left when you need the clearance, and right when you need the support.

My apologies for the hi-jack, now back to the riveting drama of "Why'd dey do dat?"


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Knot2square said:


> One of the reasons I believe is so that on short runs on the drill press you can remove the handles as needed when they get in the way, especially if you have a larger drill press table and fence. I have to remove my handles one at a time on many occasions while using my fence.


Maybe a person could make a wooden wheel and attach it to the spokes.

Herb


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi Duane,
I had the same thought some years back. I have an inherited Rockwell Delta, with only a two-spoke handle (a straight steel rod which could originally be locked in an offset position with a thumbscrew). 
A suitable wheel came my way - the aluminium drum pulley from a dead washing machine. Radius about the same as the length of the rod. I actually found it more difficult to use when drilling a deep hole which required more than one revolution of the wheel - it was easier to change position on the rod than slip along the circumference of the wheel (one-handed).
I tried adding the "suicide knob" suggested by Ron to the wheel, but opted to go back to the original straight handle. Had it worked better, I would have made a rubber "tyre" to fit in the V-groove of the wheel.
Interestingly, last year I wanted to overhaul my DP - found a local former agent who had a stash of brand new original spares for various Delta machines (mostly TS), including the DP thrust bearing and spindle bearing which all the US websites listed as obsolete, no longer available.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Wouldn't a wheel with a knob allow you to put adequate pressure on the work piece. I would think if you have to muscle the machine that much you need a new or a sharp bit. Forcing it would not be good for either the workpiece or the bit (or the user).


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Biagio said:


> Hi Duane,
> I had the same thought some years back. I have an inherited Rockwell Delta, with only a two-spoke handle (a straight steel rod which could originally be locked in an offset position with a thumbscrew).
> A suitable wheel came my way - the aluminium drum pulley from a dead washing machine. Radius about the same as the length of the rod. I actually found it more difficult to use when drilling a deep hole which required more than one revolution of the wheel - it was easier to change position on the rod than slip along the circumference of the wheel (one-handed).
> I tried adding the "suicide knob" suggested by Ron to the wheel, but opted to go back to the original straight handle. Had it worked better, I would have made a rubber "tyre" to fit in the V-groove of the wheel.
> Interestingly, last year I wanted to overhaul my DP - found a local former agent who had a stash of brand new original spares for various Delta machines (mostly TS), including the DP thrust bearing and spindle bearing which all the US websites listed as obsolete, no longer available.


Thanks for the post, I was toying with the idea of making a wooden wheel to try it out, but after your experience I have decided to not try and "reinvent the wheel" and waste my time trying other things.

When I ponder the idea there were a lot of drill presses in industry and an efficiency engineer at some time would have improved on the handle if it made any sense to do so to increase productivity.

I have used the straight handled set up like you have but prefer 3 or 4 handles. 

On second thought maybe a steering wheel as on a boat with the spoke handles on the wheel might be better.......HMMMMMMMM

What think ,any old saltys out there?


Herb


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Old fashioned ships wheels are good for spinning and the handles were used for locking the rudder in place as much as micro tuning course


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

The main difference being the ergonomics. In the case of the DP, you're facing the 'wheel' edge on; with a ship's wheel you're facing it, well, face on. That makes a huge difference in both the effectiveness and comfort of trying to turn it.
If you only wanted to spin it, like a wheel chair rim, a wheel might actually be way more practical, but the DP is spring loaded to return if you let go. That's a big obstacle to the wheel idea.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

As Dan says. I found it OK if the wheel only needed to turn about half a revolution. Thereafter it slipped back while I tried to advance my hand on the rim. I then found I was using the spokes, in which case the rim just got in the way. The whole reason for the experiment was that the straight lever is a bit limiting - I would have liked to have three, maybe four spokes. The wheel is essentially a two-handed device, even on a boat, but I have nevber had occasion to have both hands free on the DP - maybe poor workshop practice.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Like I said earlier, I've toyed with the idea of changing spokes to a wheel for quite a while now. It's difficult to change hands to another spoke without letting go of the work. I checked Essentra a couple days ago after this thread started and a wheel with spin handle is half the price of my drill press (aprrox $250). i.e. out of the question. I think it was Herb that suggested making a wooden one which is certainly doable. I'm thinking 1/2 thickness segments overlapped and screwed together with slots where the spokes will go. That way the pieces will be long grain instead of trying to make arcs and winding up with short grain in the segments. I think it was Ron suggested a "necker's knob" (I knew girl's fathers who wouldn't let you take them out on a date if you had one of these attached onto your steering wheel) or suicide handle as I think ebay calls them and they can be had for just over $3. So I think it may be possible to cheaply convert the DP to a wheel.

For drilling wood it should have plenty of torque. For drilling metal maybe not but I usually have metal clamped down so I can change hands when I need to then. So Ii think this is one idea I'll have to give a try to.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

so dry spin the spokes to figure out which spoke best suits the need and begin your drilling from there...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That only works if the total revolution is one or less. I guess I should qualify that some as it may be possible if you are young and healthy. If you have arthritis in your hands it may not work.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

got the arthritis...
it works...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Thanks for the post, I was toying with the idea of making a wooden wheel to try it out, but after your experience I have decided to not try and "reinvent the wheel" and waste my time trying other things.
> 
> When I ponder the idea there were a lot of drill presses in industry and an efficiency engineer at some time would have improved on the handle if it made any sense to do so to increase productivity.
> 
> ...


If it's gonna have spokes anyway, why add the wheel...?

(WTB that was your point...?)


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> The main difference being the ergonomics. In the case of the DP, you're facing the 'wheel' edge on; with a ship's wheel you're facing it, well, face on. That makes a huge difference in both the effectiveness and comfort of trying to turn it.
> If you only wanted to spin it, like a wheel chair rim, a wheel might actually be way more practical, but the DP is spring loaded to return if you let go. That's a big obstacle to the wheel idea.


As long as we're reinventing the wheel, how about we add a friction brake to override the spring...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> got the arthritis...
> it works...


It often doesn't for me.


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Nickp said:


> As long as we're reinventing the wheel, how about we add a friction brake to override the spring...


Now that's a good idea right there Nick!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Maybe part of the reason that it's still basically the same is the fine control, not to mention feedback, you get through the spoke system?
Otherwise why not go to a ram type of vertical drive? Or a couple of synchronous motors? (One as a controller, the other to drive the spindle gear down or up)


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Nickp said:


> If it's gonna have spokes anyway, why add the wheel...?
> 
> (WTB that was your point...?)


I was thinking the spacing of the spokes on the wheel might be coser and easier when watching the drill and changing to the next spoke.

Mine only have 3 Spokes and they are a distance apart out on the handles. But we don't want to make things too easy, or everyone would be doing woodworking.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Mine only have 3 Spokes and they are a distance apart out on the handles. But we don't want to make things too easy, or everyone would be doing woodworking."

-Herb
A wheel just complicates the process...


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## Bodger96 (Mar 18, 2014)

I have used a drill press with a wheel and also one with a foot pedal. My three spoke drill press is easier to use than either of the other styles.

Regards Bob


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## Lime113 (Jan 6, 2021)

For the Bosch PBD 40 there is a wheel. People get annoyed because it is difficult re-gripping when doing longer strokes than 1/2 turn.


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## mike 44 (Feb 6, 2021)

Herb Stoops said:


> Maybe a person could make a wooden wheel and attach it to the spokes.
> 
> Herb


I did just that. I had a craftsmen DP that was older than me. I'm 77. I bought it used . The handle had one spoke and he tapped hole went thru the hub. I added another handle so I had two handles. After a couple of years I decided that a rim and handle would be best. I made a form from scrap wood. Then cut 1/8" strips of ash. Used ash because I had it laying on a shelf. I soaked the strips in hot water with a bottle of Downy water softener . 10 minutes in the solution and I could bend the strips around the form like a pretzel. Instead of clamping I used tiny wire brads to secure the strips to the form after gluing up. When done the form was removed. some wire brads stuck thru the inside perimeter . I pulled them thru with a pair of pliers and broke the edges with sandpaper.
The finished wheel was about 1-1/4" wide and 2 ' thick. The rim was attached to the hub by boring a thru hole for each 1/2" handles . The rod handles were installed back in the hub and nuts and washers installed on the top of the rods. 
I did not need nuts under the rim .
I spent about 8+ hours on this waste of time as it worked but I found that the two spoke arrangement was more comfortable. For years I had the rim laying on a shelf. One day I decided to trash it. 
Another of my ingenious ideas that sucked.
mike


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## mike 44 (Feb 6, 2021)

Nickp said:


> As long as we're reinventing the wheel, how about we add a friction brake to override the spring...


I have a delta DP that the spring broke. I was going to order a new one. In the meantime I still needed use the DP.
After removing the spring I tightened the friction nut on the DP and this worked much better than the spring. I can raise or lower the quill and it stops where I want it. The quill height adjustment on this DP is the crappy dial type. I made a threaded rod type and installed it. I do a lot of metal work too and this arrangement works much better than the clock spring that comes with the DP. Also added a milling table and a shop made vice. An Iguage digital scale on the Z axis completes the DP.


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