# Barn Door Guide Slot



## Rufnek100 (Dec 5, 2013)

I'm in the process of building an interior barn door for a bathroom, approximately 29" X 82". The door is kept from swinging in / out as it travels left / right on the tracks above by means of a "rib" guide screwed to the floor. This floor guide fits into a slot on the bottom of the door.

The hardware instructions call for a 1/4" wide slot approximately 3/4" deep that runs along the length of the bottom of the door. Most of the 3 & 4 wing slot cutter profiles I've found are only able to cut 9/16" deep - still too shallow.

I'm trying to think of the best option to cut this slot - spiral upcut bit with a few passes to get the depth, or maybe a standard 1/4" two flute bit with the same method?

Also, given the height of the door I think it would be easiest to perform the cut with the door laying flat on my workbench as opposed to standing it up and working from a ladder.

One last option is since the slot will fall in the middle of a joint (the door slats and frame face glued / pinned together), maybe two separate rabbets on each board before assembly?

I have a router table (although not really a viable option) as well as standard size and mini portable routers. I have an edge guide for the larger router and could use some scrap around the shop to build up the standoff enough to get the bit centered in the bottom of the door and give myself a good foundation for the router base. The only problem I could see with this method is holding the router horizontally to make the cut might be somewhat awkward.

Any thoughts on the best way to make this cut? Thanks!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

look to getting a much smaller diameter bearing for the slot cutter... that'll give you a deeper cut...
you say rabbet.. will the rabbets face each other to give you your dado/slot???


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## Rufnek100 (Dec 5, 2013)

Do you think a smaller bearing would get me to 3/4" depth of cut? For example, the Whiteside 6710A 3 wing cutter has an OD of 1-7/8" and will accept a 5/16" arbor. Subtracting out the arbor and dividing by two leaves 25/32"; but this only accounts for the arbor, not the nut or bearing that would clear the flats on the nut - which I think would be too large to leave the 3/4" needed. Please check my math...

Yes, since I'm basically face joining two boards at the bottom of the door I could make a 3/4" rabbet 1/8" deep on each board and face them together during assembly to make the groove.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Attach the guide to the bottom of the door and make a groove in the floor (preferably by using two pieces of flat stock and leaving the proper gap between them). You will not like stepping on the guide if you attach it to the floor.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Hmm, in 75 years, I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of any barn doors swinging out, they just slid back and forth. Did I miss something, or is this in a motor coach, or something?


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

I guess the issue with putting the groove in the floor would be that it would tend to trap dirt and debris, and potentially jam the door.

If you can make the slot before assembling the door, that would undoubtedly be the way to go IMO.

Failing that, maybe someone might know of a US supplier of a large enough slotting bit. There is a UK firm that supplies a 60mm slotter that can cut up to 22mm (7/8") deep:
Wealden Tool Company Limited Groover 60
Wealden Tool Company Limited Arbor 8


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

I just did this same job in April. I used the slot cutter bit in a laminate trim router. My door was cedar so it cut easier than a hardwood. 
The groove doesn't need to be a full 3/4" Look at the plastic guide you screw to the ground and realize that your door will not ride tight along the floor. So you take the height of the guide minus the gap between the guide and the floor to figure the depth you really need. The slot cutter you have will probably work. 
If the slot cutter really is not deep enough then I would suggest using that to cut out most of the wood, then switch to a spiral bit as you suggested, using it just to take out the last bit of the trench. On the doors I installed the guide was tapered so the deepest part of the trench could be slightly narrower than the rest of it without issue.
If you can plan ahead and cut rabbits in the two pieces to create the trench then that sounds like a simple answer too.
The plastic guide failed about 4 months after installation because of the kids being rough with the door. I replaced the plastic one with a custom fabricated steel version. I started with 1/4" flat bar and welded it together. I warned the customer that if the kids continue to be rough with the door the new point of failure will be the bottom plank of the door, not the plastic guide.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Sometime since then I built a jig for my trim router that would have made the slot cut procedure easier and more secure. This is a modification of a design for a edge banding trim jig. I think it was from woodsmith shop. 
Screw the router to the top of the plexi and adjust the wood fence to the right depth. The fence takes the place of the bearing or at least does much of the same work. The key advantage to this design is the handle and large platform under it, gives lost of surface area to the face of the door, elminating rocking or tilting the router.
One could create another modified version with a taller (thicker) fence to use with that spiral bit you are thinking about using. With a large enough platform on the end and face of the door you could very easily and safely lay the door down and hold the router horizontal to make the cut.
In your place, I would first use the rabbit cut pre glue-up idea. Second option would be to build a new jig to hold the face and end of the door while holding the router horizontal with the spiral bit. I would choose this second because of all the fun it would be designing the jig


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## Rufnek100 (Dec 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies - it's a concrete floor with tile, so cutting the floor is probably not an option. And JOAT you're correct, the bottom guide is in place to keep the door from swinging in / out since the door is suspended from rollers on a track.

Everend - thank you for the insight, it's invaluable to hear the perspective and associated learning from someone who has completed the same job. The jig is a great idea, but I don't see this cut taking place more than once in the near future so it will probably be more efficient to utilize a slot cutter to my own measurements or the rabbet approach. I could even use my router table for that one if need be.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

The overhead runners that hold the door are threaded studs. cut the slot as deep as is easy for you, then raise /lower the door to fit on the overhead screws.

option two is to cut the top of the door if its too high.

option three (my favourite).... cut the floor guide down to fit your slot.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

sliding a whole door across a router table sounds like a pain. My shop isn't even big enough to contemplate that option. 
Sounds like you have it figured out but I want to muse a bit more...
It actually wouldn't be too hard to make a 90degree jig. Think router table and fixed fence. Move the table while the door stays stationary. If going with the strait/spiral bit I would defeinately make this first. It would only take 30-60 min and would make the job so much easier/safer.
Start with a couple of say 8"x8" pieces of 1/2" or even 3/4" plywood. Mount the router to the center of one edge. Glue up the other piece of plywood perpendicular to the first to be the fence. Since this is a one-off jig this could be done with scrap lumber, just making sure the distance from the fence to the bit is the right distance for your door. 
To make the jig a bit more versitile one could set the fence piece back further away from the router and use bolts and t-nuts to add an adjustable fence piece between the ridgid fence piece and the router.
A more elegent option is to to cut channels in the 'table' piece the router is attached to and make the fence a sled with lockdown clamps. Could even cut a couple of miter slots in the table to keep it perpendicular though right now I'm not sure why that would be helpful.
If I ever need to make such a cut again I'll just make a new, taller 'fence' piece for the jig already pictured.
ok enough musing... back to work.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

JT, if you're going to do this _before_ assembly - why not use a DADO BLADE on a table saw?

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

sunnybob The door hardware I used in the spring did not have any adjustments for height. The 'barn door' style hardware is pretty rigid. It was ALL a matter of measure many times before cutting or drilling because there was no adjusting or fixing it afterward. 
I did a bathroom door a few years ago using pocket door hardware instead. This hardware did have screw adjustments for height. 
I used pocket door hardware so I could make pockets at the top and edges of the doors, since it was a bathroom. This way they got the look of the sliding barn door with the privacy of a standard pocket door.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Call me crazy, but I wouldn't cut a groove into the FLOOR at all. What if you decide to remove the barn door? Now you have this slot in your floor for no apparent reason.

I'd cut a 3/4"x3/4" groove into the bottom of the *door*. I'd mount a U-shaped steel welded plate to the wall stud with a couple of 3/8" lag bolts near the doorway and let the vertical web rise up into the door groove. The door overlaps the doorWAY, doesn't it? All you need is one inch width of steel 3/8" up into the slot in the bottom of the door to guide it.

When the door opens, the U-bracket will keep the door aligned through its travel, stopping at the right bottom edge of the door. Route a 3/4"x3/4" groove into the door bottom. Go get a 3/4"x3/4" strip of some tough material like Delron, or Nylon or something you can glue/screw into the door slot you made. Route a thin groove into that material for the steel guide to slide back and forth in. You can use a thick white plastic cutting board from Wally World, and cut it on a table saw to make two or three segments you can insert into the door slot. Leave room in the grooves for recessed screws to attach it to the door .

File or polish the edges and round the corners of the steel guide so it doesn't "shave" the slot material as the door is moved, and give it a small dab of grease once a year at Christmas time.


.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

How about the idea of making an fixture similar to the Festool






that would hold the router spindle parallel to the door face and just cut the slot in the bottom of the door - a couple of passes with a straight spiral bit and you'd be good? Doesn't have to be fancy - an angle plate, and an extended baseplate for the router that attaches to the angle plate. Wouldn't have to be fancy for a "one of" use.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I always approach these situations as an opportunity to add a new tool to my shop!

Why re-invent the wheel, when Festool already makes the perfect tool for this job? I would just buy the Festool gadget and add it to your shop. There is NEVER a tool made, that will only serve for one purpose or project!



tomp913 said:


> How about the idea of making an fixture similar to the Festool
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rrvECkTTCOQ
> 
> that would hold the router spindle parallel to the door face and just cut the slot in the bottom of the door - a couple of passes with a straight spiral bit and you'd be good? Doesn't have to be fancy - an angle plate, and an extended baseplate for the router that attaches to the angle plate. Wouldn't have to be fancy for a "one of" use.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Rufnek100 said:


> And JOAT you're correct, the bottom guide is in place to keep the door from swinging in / out since the door is suspended from rollers on a track.


No, I didn't say that. I know what barn door is, that they are suspended from rollers on a track, seen plenty, used some. What I said was, that I have never seen a barn door that swung in or out, no matter what the size, so I am wondering why one would 'need' a guide on the bottom. Sounds like something a 'designer' would come up with.

But, if I wanted a guide on the bottom, what I'd do is put a metal rod into the floor, just outside the door, then have a metal rod along the bottom of the door, fastened at each end, just around the floor rod. You could even stick another rod in the floor on the closing side of the door. Me? I wouldn't bother.

This wasn't a kit door, was it?


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## Rufnek100 (Dec 5, 2013)

It's not a kit door (I'm building that starting from rough lumber, most likely cypress), but the hardware set comes packaged together. Since it's a bathroom door, even a little pivot at the top might yield some privacy issues around the edges. 

That Festool jig is awesome and I have plenty of green in the shop, but unfortunately my Festool fixation began after I already had my routers and I just can't get to the point of replacing the existing units that work fine (Bosch MRC23EVSK & Dewalt DWP611). I almost wish they would break lol...

Thanks for all the helpful information and insights everyone, much appreciated!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Rufnek100 said:


> It's not a kit door (I'm building that starting from rough lumber, most likely cypress), but the hardware set comes packaged together. Since it's a bathroom door, even a little pivot at the top might yield some privacy issues around the edges.


So what you're concerned with is the bottom swinging out some, by someone pulling on it. Way I see it, several simple ways of dealing with that.
One, make the door considerably wider than the doorway.
Two, put a very heavy weight on the very bottom edge of the door.
Three, take a decent size flat piece of metal, and make a hook that fits very close to the door on the closed side of the doorway. 
Four, my personal favorite. Since you're going to have some sort of lock on the door to keep it from being opened while someone is in there, just put a hook, latch, whatever, on each side of the door, so it can't be moved, period. The barn doors that I have seen that were secured. were done so with a large hook on the inside, with the door positioned far enough so no one could reach thru from the outside and release it. 

Well, actually what I would really prefer on a door like that is to have it rigged to spray dye, or tear gas, in someone's face if they pulled on the door. But I probably couldn't afford the tear gas. Hehehe


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Build one of these https://www.amazon.com/HHIP-3402-0302-Slotted-Angle-Webbed/dp/B00N41G178/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474456972&sr=8-1&keywords=slotted+angle+plate out of some scrap plywood, make an elongated baseplate for your router out of a piece of plywood and bolt the two together so that the cutter is in the correct location - i.e. centered on the thickness of the door - and rout the groove along the bottom of the door.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

The barn door track hardware I used needs to have a bottom stop to keep the door from being pushed off track. 
The wheel has a v-groove riding on the track. The rail is positioned between the wheel attached to the door and the top of the door. Once set on the rail a shim is placed between the rail and the door so the door and wheel cannot be lifted off the rail. 
This system works as long as the door is vertical. 
When someone pushes on the door, from the inside, without a bottom stop the door will swing out slightly every time. Remember the inside will not have a handle it will only have a finger pocket to grab. It cannot have a protruding handle or this would hit the wall as the door opens. 
Now picture a child or someone in a big hurry opening the door from the inside. They may use more force perpendicular to the door movement, causing the bottom of the door to swing out more. At some point that amount of force will push the door out enough to overcome the angle of the v-groove of the wheel. By that time the shim stop on top of the door will have swung out past the rail. This will allow the door to come crashing down on such a person's head.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

There is an alternative to the groove style stop. One could install a roller on the outside of the door a few inches from where the post, that would ride in the groove, would have been. 
Get a 2" nylon sleeve for a 1/2" x 4" lag bolt. Use a hammer drill to sink an anchor through the tile into the concrete foundation. Put a fender washer over the hole then the sleeve & bolt. Have them powder coated first.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Look at how Johnson retains the bottom of the door, this may be an option

http://johnsonhardware.com/images/Install/WM/IN200WM.pdf

They sell individual components so you could buy just this part if it would work for you.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Ah, I think I see what it is now, we seem to be talking about two different things.
I think this is what you are talking about. Barn Door Hardware - Door Knobs & Hardware - Hardware - *The Home Depot 
And this is what I have been talking about. Sliding Door Parts Real barn barn doors.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Joat. Yes. I call your link pocket door hardware. That hardware requires a header to enclose the hardware (hide it). The bathroom barn door I did a few years ago used that kind of hardware. Vs the one I did this year is like the home depot variety with exposed hardware.
Either style could use a floor guide or stop but for the exposed hardware style it is critical.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

What I'm taking away from this is that 'barn doors' are a designers' wet dream, but in reality are a p.i.t.a. from a practical perspective. 
I like _pocket_ doors, but they have their own practical problems. I don't know how many doors I've seen ruined by someone putting a fastener through the wall in the pocket area ( worse damage if the door was in the closed position, then they slide the door into the pocket, gouging the entire face on the fastener side)

Another possibility for the door retention at the bottom is to put a couple of discrete thesholds on the floor...one on either side.
you can get them in marble/stone from the floor/countertop suppliers.


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## Rufnek100 (Dec 5, 2013)

All great points and pocket doors are a "less trendy" solution that have been around for years and work great - for my application, I was looking to replace a bathroom door that had recently been flooded (southern Louisiana). Now, granted it's just a weekend camp and it's not uncommon to get water in there every few years, but completely tearing out hollow core doors every time they get wet is getting old and I'm trying to go back with more "flood friendly" solutions. I thought about the pocket door, but those swell when wet and are then stuck in the wall for a matter of months until they dry out to the point that they will slide out - some of my neighbors have experienced just that. 

So the interior barn door setup seemed like a good fit for my needs - being solid wood (hence the decision on cypress, which is readily available in this neck of the woods and more resistant to moisture) it should withstand the water much better than a normal hollow core door and in the event it does warp a little it's not a complete tear out situation.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Good plan.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Open plan...  (just kidding!)


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Everend said:


> Joat. Yes. I call your link pocket door hardware. That hardware requires a header to enclose the hardware (hide it). The bathroom barn door I did a few years ago used that kind of hardware. Vs the one I did this year is like the home depot variety with exposed hardware.
> Either style could use a floor guide or stop but for the exposed hardware style it is critical.


Well, I have 'never' seen a header to enclose that hardware. I've only seen actual barn doors, on real barns, and none of them had the hardware enclosed, always out in the open. The only 'guides' I've ever seen were a metal stake in the ground on the open side, and on occasion, the closed side also - which would keep the door from moving outward. 

Heh, I'd never even heard of a 'barn door kit' until this thread. If someone had asked me to build one, I'd just have gone to the local hardware, bought some pulleys, flat strip of steel, etc., and made one. It would never have struck my mind to go to Lowes or Home Desperate and get a 'kit' to do it. That link I posted is to a actual agricultural supply store, 90% of which is devoted to farm supplies and parts, no designer kits there. Need parts to repair your combine, hay bailer, get a new milking machine, well that's the place to go.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Too late; the horse has bolted...


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