# Jointer? Or Planer? Which one first?



## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Wow.... I *almost* have the wife convinced that in order for me to actually BUILD stuff, I need to be able to prep the wood. I saw a planer at what looked like a good deal that turned out to be not-so-great. But that got me looking. 

So I looked at planers and then I started looking at jointers. Most of the stock I deal with is smaller width. So I started thinking a jointer. Then I thought..... "A jointer would be great for edge joining, but what about a 4 to 6 inch wide board? "

A jointer won't necessarily make opposite sides of a board parallel even though it makes them straight. And a planer will make them parallel, but won't make them straight. 

Sounds to me like you need both, but I know that ain't going to happen. 
I have a nice hand plane (jointer plane) .... 

So which would you get first? A jointer or a planer? 

And are the Delta units decent? Are the Dewalt planers so much better than the Deltas as to make the cost difference worthwhile? 

Is the Delta jointer (the open stand, 6"... not the bench top model) decent? Or is it worth another $100 to get the Jet in the same size?


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Jointer first... It makes a Flat side / edge.

Planer second... It mirrors the flat side to the other side to make IT flat.
(flat side down away from cutters, of course.)


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

I know which one to USE first. 

If you could only HAVE one..... and the other might have to wait quite a while.... which one would you BUY first?


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> I know which one to USE first.
> 
> If you could only HAVE one..... and the other might have to wait quite a while.... which one would you BUY first?


OH!! Golly, that makes a big difference doesn't it! :sold:  

I guess it depends on how you buy your wood... really rough without any planing or jointing... or not.

I get mine planed both sides with one edge jointed...
So, I think I'd get the Planer first...

If I didn't have ANY flat side, it would take a jointer to get started.
edit: Of course, an argument could be made for a Router!   /edit

Is that better?  

edit:
But I only have a 4" jointer that I inherited... no planer either... 
That takes $$$. I have a friend that will plane for me... but, for the most part, I'm getting by w/o one.
/edit


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi reikimaster

Just my 2 cents

Get the jointer 1st. most stock you buy will not be true or sq. 

Once it's in your shop and out of the stack from the lumber yard/Big Box store,etc. it's not going to stay true very long.
It's always on the move...it was a tree and always will be..
Small boards make big boards, you can always make it flat and true with the jointer but that's not true with the planer...

If you can get a 8" one get it if not get a 6" floor model,most are all about the same select the brand name you like and then stick with it for most of your shop equipiment.. 



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reikimaster said:


> I know which one to USE first.
> 
> If you could only HAVE one..... and the other might have to wait quite a while.... which one would you BUY first?


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

*Here's the answer Scott Phillips, of The American Workshop, gave when asked...*

http://popularwoodworking.com/video/?showid=282541

*Here is how Norm Abram answered... *(depends on wood)

http://popularwoodworking.com/video/?showid=282533


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I will need to disagree Scott P.

Most buy stock 6" wide or less and if you buy anything wider it should be ripped down to less, most 6" wider stock will be cupped or will cup real quick once it's out of the stack.

I have not found a blade yet they that will not leave a saw mark in it when it's ripped on the table saw..
Most stock you will use will be less that 6" wide the norm for most projects or to say it should be, like for a panel doors,etc.

You need to start with sq. stock to get it to come out sq.
When I cut plywood I use the sand paper disk on the saw blade to remove the saw marks and it works OK most of the time...


But the jointer will make the stock flat and sq....


Just my 2 cents... 


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Joe Lyddon said:


> *Here's the answer Scott Phillips, of The American Workshop, gave when asked...*
> 
> http://popularwoodworking.com/video/?showid=282541
> 
> ...


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> I will need to disagree Scott P.
> 
> Most buy stock 6" wide or less and if you buy anything wider it should be ripped down to less, most 6" wider stock will be cupped or will cup real quick once it's out of the stack.
> 
> ...


I'm sure Scott P. (incidently, Sam Maloof feels the same way) was referring to a super premium blade like the Forest WW II... :sold:

A premium blade, of that caliber, will give you a Glass-smooth cut... that *does NOT need to be jointed or sanded in any way.*

I have seen it with my own eyes... and have felt it with my own fingers... it is awesome!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Gee maybe someone should tell Norm A. that,,,( of the NYWS)

I see him use the jointer all the time after he rips wood on the table saw.. 

"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Gee maybe someone should tell Norm A. that,,,( of the NYWS)
> 
> I see him use the jointer all the time after he rips wood on the table saw..
> 
> ...


I heard Norm A. say that he felt Sam Maloof was his pick for the best woodworker of today... (in the Interview link posted earlier)

Maybe Norm A. should learn a few tricks from Sam Maloof?   
Once Sam has one straight edge, it's the TS all the way... no jointing.
I've heard him say it with my own ears.  

The first straight edge can be made various ways...
... with a router, strt edge, & fkush trim bit.
... with a TS using a straight carrier to clamp the workpiece to it, & cut.


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

reikimaster said:


> And are the Delta units decent? Are the Dewalt planers so much better than the Deltas as to make the cost difference worthwhile?


I own the Delta that Lowes sells for about $240. Yes it is decent. I've never used the DeWalt but I have heard that its better. It probably has less snipe than the Delta but there are some tricks to keep that to a minimum.

My TS with a Freud blade gives me a really smooth cut. But for now when I need a jointer I just use my router table with a shim behind the outfeed fence.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

I have gone thru this same process Reikimaster. Still thinking about it. I had a couple bench top jointers and the only decent ones are are the ones with cast iron fences and table. I have had 2 of the aluminum fence ones and there was no way they could be adjusted square. Even had a tech come out on the sears one with a new fence and he could not do it. So they got it back. I found the Delta bench top to be no better and it was twisted. I returned it and gave up on them. Both would flatten a face, the fences were the problems. Some day maybe someone will build a decent benchtop jointer. The Palmagren is one of the few out there right now but I hesitate to call it a benchtop at 100 lbs. and it is a 6 1/8 jointer and gets some good reviews. 

I am looking at the Ridgid Jointer and Planer from Home Depot The planer gives virtually snipe free cuts and has the features of a 500. planer. There was a review recently of these in a recent magazine. For 500 and up planers. the new Craftsman and the Dewalt tied for the editors pick. Great stuff coming from Craftsman these days! I have gone back and forth on this for the last 15 years on which to get. I have gotten along without them for years. I now concentrate on smaller items such as boxes and clocks. I can joint an edge on the router table and I buy reasonably flat stock from a good reliable sources. Since I do mostly smallish items, thickness of stock becomes my main focus ... and milling down thicker stock to thinner stock for box work will take care of a lot of my needs. It is also possible to flatten slightly bowed and crooked stock on a planer with a sled I have been told and have found several jigs on the web to do so. 

At this time I am leaning towards a planer for myself. If I do go this route I do want to get a jointer in the future... but if I do so it will require further shop remodels. Nothing is better than the dedicated tool to do the job right and quickly, but you can find other ways with in a budget. I also plan to learn how to flatten stock the old fashioned way.... with hand planes and scrapers. If I can invest in some decent planes and learn how to use them properly, I may never need a jointer for my box work. We will see. 

Woodworking is an adventure.. enjoy it which ever route you go!

Corey


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

I have the Ridgid 6" jointer (an excellent machine) and the DeWalt 735 planer (also an excellent machine and well worth the little extra you pay).

I would suggest getting a jointer first. A planer is useless for working with cupped wood.


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## stutsmd (Sep 3, 2007)

I had a jointer long before I purchased a planer and the jointer still gets the most work. Both are nice but you'll find the jointer most useful early on. Whichever jointer you choose, I would recommend the one with the longest table your budget allows.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I had a 6" jointer for close to 20 years before buying a Delta planer and it's a case of what you've never had you never miss,BUT, once you have had BOTH, it's impossible to manage without.
Regarding the need to use the jointer after the saw, I confess to having joined boards straight off the saw, providing that constant feed pressure was applied for the complete cut, however, as Bj. has said, the jointer IS the way to go with equipment normally found in the amateurs shop. With due respect to the "experts", I've been to many, many demonstrations given by such people and the errors that I've seen when being on the front row would amaze those of you who take everything that these "professionals" say as Gospel should re-assess their own work, it's probably far superior to what they believe!


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> I had a 6" jointer for close to 20 years before buying a Delta planer and it's a case of what you've never had you never miss,BUT, once you have had BOTH, it's impossible to manage without.
> Regarding the need to use the jointer after the saw, I confess to having joined boards straight off the saw, providing that constant feed pressure was applied for the complete cut, however, as Bj. has said, the jointer IS the way to go with equipment normally found in the amateurs shop. With due respect to the "experts", I've been to many, many demonstrations given by such people and the errors that I've seen when being on the front row would amaze those of you who take everything that these "professionals" say as Gospel should re-assess their own work, it's probably far superior to what they believe!


There is no question that BOTH would be NICE to have.

The question is "Which one to get FIRST".

To boil it down to simple facts:
If you buy rough-cut lumber, rough all the way around, the Jointer should be First.

If you get jointed & planed lumber, where you have a good starting point where a router or TS can be used for jointing, one can "Get by" by getting the Thickness Planer First.

The overall objective is to get BOTH of them... eventually...

In my case, I could use a thickness planer more than a jointer.

After taking a planed board and resawing a slice from it, the thickness planer is ideal for getting the sawn side nice and smooth and coplanar with the opposite side. If you plan on doing ANY resawing with a bandsaw (or table saw), the thickness planer is far more important.

So, what kind of lumber do you get?


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Joe Lyddon said:


> So, what kind of lumber do you get?


See that's part of why I've been looking into all of this. I just recently did a small project for my wife. It was one of those things for the top of your desk that holds folders up on edge. Simple. I went to Lowes and bought 1/2" maple and 1/4" maple, S4S, and paid out the butt for it. AND had to pick through it to get pieces as straight as I could get that weren't cupped. 

There are several guys within easy driving distance from me that operate small saw mills and sell off rough cut cherry, ash, maple, hemlock, beech, all kinds of stuff at really good prices. I can't really use it because I've got no way to prepare it. The boards typically range from 3 to 8 inches wide. 

I've got a friend that actually has some kind of sled that he passes through his planer when he has a piece that's twisted. He says that it has to be worth the effort...the wood has to be nice... because it takes a while to get a flat side, be he swears by it. He made it. It uses thin wedges or shims. Once one side is flat, he can make the other side parallel (coplanar, I think he calls it). He's also showed me how he takes a twisted wreck and uses his hand planes on it to get it roughed flat and then uses the sled. I only mention all of this because I've never seen anyone else pass anything through their planer other than the board itself. Using the sled he says you really CAN occasionally make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

He also uses a hand jointer plane for edge joining. OR he uses his router with a jointing fence. He has an 8" jointer and he uses that on occasion. He says he's much more comfortable using the hand plane for edge joining and he never runs a board face on his jointer. 

The more I look into this, the more I realize that there are lots of differing opinions from very credible people. It's like... "How do you WORK?" and then you have to decide what you need based on that. 

I *want* both. The wood I have currently to work with is pretty flat, but rough. I'm actually leaning towards the planer at this point. But I'm still not totally decided.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi reikimaster

Sounds like you need both,, if you get your sharp pencil out you can get both for almost the same price as a jointer...it sounds like you don't need the high end ones just something you can use in the home shop..

You can find good used ones on line (NET) that will save you big bucks..
Craigslist is a good place to start with..  shipping charge can kill a good deal so you need to find them in your town...with ▼

http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html

====
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/419810409.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/431108261.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/400051130.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=planer&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max
http://denver.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=jointer

==============


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> I went to Lowes and bought 1/2" maple and 1/4" maple, S4S, and paid out the butt for it. AND had to pick through it to get pieces as straight as I could get that weren't cupped.
> 
> There are several guys within easy driving distance from me that operate small saw mills and sell off rough cut cherry, ash, maple, hemlock, beech, all kinds of stuff at really good prices. I can't really use it because I've got no way to prepare it. The boards typically range from 3 to 8 inches wide.
> 
> ...



OK... 

HD & Lowes is NOT the place to buy good woodworking wood... you will not find it there!

Find a local good lumber or "wood products" store... you'd be surprised what they have and the quality they have FOR SUBSTANCIALLY CHEAPER PRICES THAN THE BORG's.

I will NEVER buy wood, except for maybe construction grade, at the BORG's ever again.

Yes, there are various Jigs that can be used with a thickness planer to handle just about any problem you may have with the wood.

Yes, hand tools can be used... I thought we were talking about power tools.

An easy way to join two pieces of wood is...
Layout the pieces you want, say for a table top...
Mark the Top sides for "Top".
Take two boards at a time, folding them upward so that the joining edges will be pointing UP.
Place them in a wood vice and using a Jointer hand plane, #5-7 I think, plane both edges at the same time. They MUST match.
Lay them back onto the layout table... pickup the next two boards, one you just did plus the next one, and fold them upward the same way... plane them the same way until all done.

Now, you should be able glue the panel.

If you want to save the most on lumber, get it from the Mills in your area... BUT, you must have to be able flatten one side, using a jigged planer or jointer then get the other side coplanar with it with a thickness planer. 

If you get S3S lumber from a genuine hardwood, woodworking products supply store, it will cost more than the mills... but you can get started using it faster.

I don't have the mills around me like you do... I have a friend who will thickness plane for me... I build up a bunch and do it in one visit... I am not in much of a rush to get anything done... I piddle / paddle any way I want when I want when I feel like doing it.

Maybe you have a source where you could get wood planed... even for a price? Might still be cheaper than buying equipment and S3S S4S wood... (??)

For me, I would get the planer first...

Oh... you can SEE the grain, etc. of S3S lumber easier than you can SEE it on really rough cut wood. Another thing to think about.

OK... there you have more 'food for thought'.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is something that will be debated until people are blue in the face. In a perfect world we would all get a joiner and then a thickness planer in that order. We know you have to have a good clean and square edge to start from. But what about in the real world? A thickness planer will make a surface match it's opposite surface. If there is a wavy surface on one side it will be duplicated on the other. Odds are you could live with the resulting surface. It really comes into play when panels must be an exact match such as for a dresser or china hutch. For many projects a few passes through a planer will give you wood you can work with.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Couldn't you do the same thing with the router and jointer fence? I mean, from the size of wood you're talking about, the router could do the same thing.

I have both but, purchased planer first then the jointer.

Just my 2 cents worth


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Ken, if you mean jointing the edge with the router, absolutely you can.. at least for 3/4 stock you can. I suppose you can do somewhat larger but not sure how safe it is at that point. 

Corey


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"If you plan on doing ANY resawing with a bandsaw (or table saw), the thickness planer is far more important."

HELP! What's happening to me, I actually agree with something that Joe said!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

*the Ridgid Jointer and Planer from Home Depot*



challagan said:


> I have gone thru this same process Reikimaster. Still thinking about it. I had a couple bench top jointers and the only decent ones are are the ones with cast iron fences and table. I have had 2 of the aluminum fence ones and there was no way they could be adjusted square. Even had a tech come out on the sears one with a new fence and he could not do it. So they got it back. I found the Delta bench top to be no better and it was twisted. I returned it and gave up on them. Both would flatten a face, the fences were the problems. Some day maybe someone will build a decent benchtop jointer. The Palmagren is one of the few out there right now but I hesitate to call it a benchtop at 100 lbs. and it is a 6 1/8 jointer and gets some good reviews.
> 
> I am looking at the Ridgid Jointer and Planer from Home Depot The planer gives virtually snipe free cuts and has the features of a 500. planer. There was a review recently of these in a recent magazine. For 500 and up planers. the new Craftsman and the Dewalt tied for the editors pick. Great stuff coming from Craftsman these days! I have gone back and forth on this for the last 15 years on which to get. I have gotten along without them for years. I now concentrate on smaller items such as boxes and clocks. I can joint an edge on the router table and I buy reasonably flat stock from a good reliable sources. Since I do mostly smallish items, thickness of stock becomes my main focus ... and milling down thicker stock to thinner stock for box work will take care of a lot of my needs. It is also possible to flatten slightly bowed and crooked stock on a planer with a sled I have been told and have found several jigs on the web to do so.
> 
> ...


I have both the Ridgid Jointer and Planer from Home Depot They are worth the price The jointer out of the box was right on Only had to adjuct the fence the degree's and that was it The planer out of the box was right on the lock down bed work's very well No snip If i watch out what i am doing If you get a little snip Just make a light pass All gone i plan on doing a lite pass on the last pass thro any way del


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

I can see this is a "round and round" topic. Lots of valid opinions. I really can see that having both would be great. Here's part of a discussion I had with a local woodworker...

"If you only ever do very small projects, you probably don't need either."
--he said this because he knows I have a limited-size shop area and have been doing small projects and carving--

"If, however, you want to glue up panels.... for table tops or even the sides of larger pieces, having both is very helpful. That being said, once you get into these larger dimensions of lumber, a 6" jointer isn't going to face plane a 7 or 8 inch board. So now you're talking about an 8" jointer/planer. You'll need to lay out a significantly larger amount of cash for one of those. So now your 6" jointer is relegated to edge jointing only. And you still need to face plane. Most 6" jointers are actually 6-1/8", so while they can handle a 6" board, they are really pushing it when face planing that width. 

A good 12.5 or 13 inch planer will do those widths all day long. And you can edge joint with your jointer plane. It'll take longer than using a jointer, but you can get perfectly spectacular results.
-- I've edge jointed with my hand plane already. It does work very well --
If you think you're going to make wonderful, straight, perfect edges on a jointer just because it's a machine, right from the get-go, you won't. It takes setup, patience, and trial and error to some extent to get it set up for high quality edge jointing. And you really want a long bed...the longer, the better, so there's a few more bucks even on a 6" jointer. You've already done as well with your hand plane. I've seen it. It just takes longer. Are you a production shop? -- No --
So based on the kind of work you're moving toward, and the wood that you have available now and want to get your hands on. I'd say, get a planer. You're still going to have to be selective about the wood you bring home. A planer won't remove a really bad twist. But then.... a 6" jointer isn't going to work magic on a bad twist either. And it won't face plane a 6 and a half inch board. A planer will take up less room when it's not doing anything. But don't let that fool you. Either one of these is going to need infeed and outfeed clearance. 
And while you're shopping.... get a real table saw, will ya?
-- He hates my Ryobi BTS15... hehehhe --

So that's where I am at the moment. Tough decision. But the planer is currently winning.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Don't forget... planer sleds / jigs can be made to handle those small pieces you work with as well as handle badly "twisted" wood...

I think you've decided on a planer...

*Congratulation!   *


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Joe

Lets say I'm from Missouri , so me ,,,,  ( Forest WW II blade )

Rip some oak that is 1 1/2" to 2" thick on a 45 deg. about 2 ft.. long lets say then cut some plastic 1/8" to 1/2" thick, then take a picture of the cut(s) and post it...

Don't cheat just post the snapshot....

I have not used a Forest WW II blade and I would like to see what it can do with some hardwood on a 45, most will burn the stock...and put in some saw marks.

=======


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