# Attaching face frames



## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Need some ideas folks
I have started to build new kitchen cabinets.I started last year with a six foot section for approval.She likes it so the rest is a go
Have a good start on the basic boxes,the idea to pre-build basic modular units,place them together with 3/4" between then add a pre-built face frame to give a built in look with a 3/4 "reveal of the face frame.On the six footer I pre finished everything in the shop(spray painted) then assembled in the kitchen.i was not entirely happy in that I used finishing nails to attach the face frames that required some touch up
I would like to hear some ideas on how to attach the face frames in some "invisible method.Is it possiable?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

pocket holes from inside the cabinets...
plug the sockets.. out of sight out of mind...

http://www.kregtool.com/default.html


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Tell me more,Stick
The inside wall of the box will be flush with the edge of the face frame,will that work?,would the screws be at a 45?


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I followed your link,then to the lee valley site
Looks like the answer,but have a few questions
: will the mini system work for my application
: what size screws should I use?boxes are parical board,face frame maple so I assume fine thread.any worries with the partial board?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

al m said:


> Tell me more,Stick
> The inside wall of the box will be flush with the edge of the face frame,will that work?,would the screws be at a 45?


yes it will and 25/30ish degrees is more like it.....

that link to Kreg will ''tell you more'' till you can't stand it anymore...


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks
Brains smoking already
Looks like a trip to leevalley is in order then a few practice pieces
Problem being going into that candy store,always leave with too many other goodies
Still wondering what jig to buy


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

al m said:


> Thanks
> Brains smoking already
> Looks like a trip to leevalley is in order then a few practice pieces
> Problem being going into that candy store,always leave with too many other goodies
> Still wondering what jig to buy



K3 or K4....
compare the two and go from there...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Al, I would buy the K5 model. Mainly because you are building cabinets. With the other models, it can be difficult to reach around (or over) the large cabinet pieces to reach the clamping device. I did this for awhile, then modified mine with a pneumatic piston that is foot operated. 

With the K5 model, you have access to the clamp handle.

http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-K5-Pocke...=UTF8&qid=1419896168&sr=1-8&keywords=kreg+jig

Good luck in your kitchen remodel.
Mike


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks gentlemen
Looks like the kreg jig is the way to go,have viewed a few videos,leaning toward the r3, but will defiantly consider the k5, once seeing them for real and with the excellent advice of the leevalley staff will make a choice


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here ya go, Al. Drilling pocket holes for face frames (hard maple).
MyKregPocketHoleJigDemo.mp4 Video by mt_stringer | Photobucket

And cracking pecans! :dance3:
Works Great As A Pecan Cracker Too! Video by mt_stringer | Photobucket


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Interesting
I think you mis understood me,I do not want to build the face frames with pocket screws,I will use lap joints for that.I want a method of attaching the completed face frame to the cabinet boxes that will not interfere with the finish on the face frame.
I do believe the pocket screws will work


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

al m said:


> Interesting
> I think you mis understood me,I do not want to build the face frames with pocket screws,I will use lap joints for that.I want a method of attaching the completed face frame to the cabinet boxes that will not interfere with the finish on the face frame.
> I do believe the pocket screws will work


Yeah, I know. I have a video of me drilling the larger pieces but I can't find it.

Below is an example of using the pocket screws inside of the cabinet. The middle divider is attached to the face frame with the pocket screws. The cabinet bottom is screwed to the face frame from underneath. The top stretcher is screwed to the face frame from above.

I did use a few 18 ga brads that will be filled with a colored crayon.


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## Salty Dawg (Jan 24, 2014)

I used tongue & groove to attach the face frames to my cabinets.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Looks good Mike


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## JamesMcDonald (Jan 5, 2013)

al m said:


> Need some ideas folks
> I have started to build new kitchen cabinets.I started last year with a six foot section for approval.She likes it so the rest is a go
> Have a good start on the basic boxes,the idea to pre-build basic modular units,place them together with 3/4" between then add a pre-built face frame to give a built in look with a 3/4 "reveal of the face frame.On the six footer I pre finished everything in the shop(spray painted) then assembled in the kitchen.i was not entirely happy in that I used finishing nails to attach the face frames that required some touch up
> I would like to hear some ideas on how to attach the face frames in some "invisible method.Is it possiable?


Kreg pocket hole jig with their wood plugs will make the screw almost invisible. Just bought mine last week and find it a fast and easy
way to assemble your cabinet. Make a mistake (mistakes) as I tend to do and need to take it apart. No messy glue on your fingers or where you didn't see it on the face frame until you apply the finish.


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## bluewood (Nov 26, 2013)

I tried Kreg screws in hickory on a cabinet that I built and they twisted off. These "pockethole screws" worked. They are available from wood workers supply in Casper WY or if you order in quanity from the following. Choose the thread type and the length depending on the wood you are using.

Pocket Hole Screws | quickscrews.com


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

As everyone else suggested go with the pocket hole system. When you buy your screws get them in bulk, not by the hundred. The jig will do the frames as well as the boxes. When drilling the holes make sure that you drill the right surface. In other words drill the rail not the stile. Also although it might seem simple be sure to mark the side that you want to drill it is easy to do the face side by mistake. You don't want to screw into the end grain the screws won't hold as well. If you have already built an assembled the box then you could use the mini jig clamped on the inside of the box. I have always used water putty to fill the holes and it works great. Pulse it;s a lot cheaper than using plugs.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Great idea, Mike.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Good job Mike. Is that really a corded drill?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Jim McDonald said:


> Kreg pocket hole jig with their wood plugs will make the screw almost invisible. Just bought mine last week and find it a fast and easy
> way to assemble your cabinet. Make a mistake (mistakes) as I tend to do and need to take it apart. No messy glue on your fingers or where you didn't see it on the face frame until you apply the finish.


Did you make the plugs or buy them? I tried making them so they matched the same wood as I was using ,but wasn't happy with the fit. I bought a plug cutter from lee valley and another from peachtree and the lee valley. Lee Valley was better but not as neat as premade plugs. And the boughten plugs were the best for fit, but not for matching grain. The commercially made ones are cheaper than what i have invested in cutters too.

I have attached the face frames with pin nails and face screws and plug the holes both work for me.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I hide the pocket holes where they won't be seen...
often they get no plugs or filler...
I also tend to treat pocket holes as utilitarian...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> I hide the pocket holes where they won't be seen...
> often they get no plugs or filler...
> I also tend to treat pocket holes as utilitarian...


Here are some pics of the pocket hole cutters in western maple. Not good.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Here are some pics of the pocket hole cutters in western maple. Not good.


good chance your cutter is dull...
use a cone shaped stone to polish the cutter... a diamond mortising chisel sharpening cone works very well...
you'll end up w/ a hollow grind that is to the plus...

install the plugs and use your flush cut pull saw to trim...
paring chisel to flush...

*Hint...*
use and old CD/DVD slid over the proud plug before you attack it w/ your no set pull saw...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I like pocket joinery for face frame attachment. Because I drill before assembling the carcass, I have to think through very carefully where to place the holes so they aren't visible. When I make a mistake its usually because I failed to mark the inside vs. outside (or visible/hidden) side of work pieces before drilling.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Bought the r3
Did not see the point of the bigger kit as I am using other jointrey methods for the construction of the cabinets. Lap joints for the face frames,datoes for the boxes,dove tails for the drawer boxes,rail and style cutters for the doors and end panels for exposed ends


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## Greyghost(65) (Jan 14, 2013)

What size cylinder and how much pressure on the clamp Mike


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## spruitt2800 (Dec 30, 2014)

I agree with the kreg jig, I built new cabinets for my kitchen and dining room and for the face frames I used the pocket hole jig. It is so fast and easy and you do not see the holes.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

billyjim said:


> Good job Mike. Is that really a corded drill?


Yes sir. I was drilling hard maple.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Greyghost(65) said:


> What size cylinder and how much pressure on the clamp Mike


Check out this link. Lots of info.
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/43934-modifying-kreg-pocket-hole-jig.html

The clamp applies pressure as far as it can and holds it there. It is not mechanical so there is no chance of breakage. However, it is possible to have a coordination breakdown and wind up with a pinched finger.  Don't ask how I know! 

Note: This is the best mod I have ever made. :dance3:


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Did a mock up using scraps of the actual materials being used,works great ,as you all prob already know
Not a big fan of the plugs,and as some have already said,I will try and hide as many as I can,
Thanks for the tips


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

al m said:


> Did a mock up using scraps of the actual materials being used,works great ,as you all prob already know
> Not a big fan of the plugs,and as some have already said,I will try and hide as many as I can,
> Thanks for the tips


Great. Now where are the pics?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

al m said:


> Did a mock up using scraps of the actual materials being used,works great ,as you all prob already know
> Not a big fan of the plugs,and as some have already said,I will try and hide as many as I can,
> Thanks for the tips


if you open this pic all the way and look closely you'll see the pocket holes used to attach the face frame... (open and then click on original size link)
the open box was coated in ultra white PVA... 
you know the pocket holes are there but you need to look for them IRL...


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm a little late in responding. I have attached the frames using bisqit joinery.
It is easy and makes a really strong out of sight joint.

Buck


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