# Raised Panel Doors with Back cutter?



## Guarnera (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello to all the good people here on this forum,
I am going to try and make some raised panel Cathedral doors. I purchased a set of templates from Rockler. In the included video, they show and tell you to raise the bit little at a time to take a number of small cuts until you get to your desired height. The problem with this method is that I have a bit with a back cutter. So I can't do it by raising the bit for several pass's. I could raise the bit all the way, and use the fence to move into the cut, a little at a time, which would work for the straight side's, and the outside curve on the top, but what about the inside curves on the top of the panel? My tiny little brain is having a hard time figuring this out. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thank You.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Can you remove the back cutter? If so, take it off, ease up on your cuts as you stated, then for your final pass, put the back cutter back on.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Will probably get some argument on this, but... I have always cut them in a single pass. I have not had any problem with that procedure. I do use a sacrificial wood blocks clamped one on each side of the panel to prevent chipout, and I am using a 3.25 HP router.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just pickup a bigger bearing and make one pass with it in place then put the normal bearing back in place to make the last pass./

Just a note once the bit is set you don't want move it up or down plus use a 1/2 fence that's clamped to the top of your router table see the Sommerfeld videos below to see how to do it easy and safe. 

Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Arched Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube


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Guarnera said:


> Hello to all the good people here on this forum,
> I am going to try and make some raised panel Cathedral doors. I purchased a set of templates from Rockler. In the included video, they show and tell you to raise the bit little at a time to take a number of small cuts until you get to your desired height. The problem with this method is that I have a bit with a back cutter. So I can't do it by raising the bit for several pass's. I could raise the bit all the way, and use the fence to move into the cut, a little at a time, which would work for the straight side's, and the outside curve on the top, but what about the inside curves on the top of the panel? My tiny little brain is having a hard time figuring this out. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thank You.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

As a play on Bob's suggestion you set the fence for a full cut and fix a stop block to the back of the fence as a reference. Move the fence away from the stop block to take a partial cut and then walk the fence back to the stop block in multiple passes. Bit height stays the same with each pass.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

That's the rub with the Cathedral type doors you can't use the fence with a stop block setup..  you could say it's free hand only way..

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GulfcoastGuy said:


> As a play on Bob's suggestion you set the fence for a full cut and fix a stop block to the back of the fence as a reference. Move the fence away from the stop block to take a partial cut and then walk the fence back to the stop block in multiple passes. Bit height stays the same with each pass.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> That's the rub with the Cathedral type doors you can't use the fence with a stop block setup..  you could say it's free hand only way..
> 
> ==


As are most all complex curve operation on a router table! I do use the fence as a starting "pin", though.


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## Guarnera (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks for all the answers. I like the larger bearing idea the best. Seems like the right way to do this. Thanks again.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> That's the rub with the Cathedral type doors you can't use the fence with a stop block setup..  you could say it's free hand only way..
> 
> ==


Cathedral - with a capital 'C' - right there in the OP. I need to clean my glasses. Right you are, Bob.


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## rprowbo1 (Feb 6, 2009)

I know what you mean, I have raised panel bits with a back cutter as well. Rather than raise the bit, I just move the fence out and slowly work it back but leave the bit at the same height. It has the same effect.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

rprowbo1 said:


> I know what you mean, I have raised panel bits with a back cutter as well. Rather than raise the bit, I just move the fence out and slowly work it back but leave the bit at the same height. It has the same effect.


As Mike always says, a picture is worth a thousand words...

Please don't try that with one of these!

Oh, and welcome to the forum, Rick.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Rick. Welcome to the forum.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Think 3-D. Depth of cut... It's like when I train horses. There is 6 directions a horse can move. Forward, back, left, right, up and down. If you don't want it to move up and down, then you open a door for it to move in another direction.

I've noted this before, but it needs to be said again. Here's how I do that. Not the only way... just one method.

I set the bit height of my panel bit to a template I cut previously or of an existing panel I'm trying to match. I set the fence to the full cut. The bit height and the fence stay the same for all my panel inserts, so that you end up with consistent work.

What changes is how close the work is to the fence. My fence has a split curtain face, like a lot of fences, that moves towards and away from the bit, to shroud the bit., Well I have 1-1/4", 3/4", 1/2", 1/4" pieces of plywood and a pair with 1/16" inch plastic... cut as shims to use between the fence and the curtain fence face. That way the fence stays static, but you can bring the work into the fence in 1/4" increments, with the last 1/16 shim taken out for a finish cut.

I also use the same method for rails&stiles, T&G, Glue edge, etc... where it is important to keep the bit height consistent from piece to piece. That way you get the faces of all the pieces to match and line up. That will save you lots of time when you get to the fitting of the joints and finishing.

You can use this same method for angled fences used in cathedral styled panels... Controlling how close the work is to the bit. And my fences are nothing fancy... A router workshop type "Keep it simple" with squeeze clamps holding the fence faces and shims on. Quick to loosen, remove shims and go again.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

I would love to see a picture of your fence setup for the cathedral styled panels.like they say a picture is worth a 1000 words..but I will say a 1/4 or 1/2 fence can do it but not a full fence fence that I know about..


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MAFoElffen said:


> Think 3-D. Depth of cut... It's like when I train horses. There is 6 directions a horse can move. Forward, back, left, right, up and down. If you don't want it to move up and down, then you open a door for it to move in another direction.
> 
> I've noted this before, but it needs to be said again. Here's how I do that. Not the only way... just one method.
> 
> ...


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob-

Sure thing. Will try to take pictures of it while I'll getting things ready for the graduation party tomorrow. If no time tomorrow, then the next day. (I'm not tasked with cleanup.)

I the meantime- I think I have some drawings around here somewhere. Nothing real fancy. I am still sketch-up dyslexic.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Mike

Looking forward to it don't get we are talking about " cathedral styled " doors.

By the way what brand name of templates do you use ???

Door Templates ▼
Router Jigs and Templates

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MAFoElffen said:


> Bob-
> 
> Sure thing. Will try to take pictures of it while I'll getting things ready for the graduation party tomorrow. If no time tomorrow, then the next day. (I'm not tasked with cleanup.)
> 
> I the meantime- I think I have some drawings around here somewhere. Nothing real fancy. I am still sketch-up dyslexic.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob-
Here's the pic's (attached). Didn't have time to grab my shims, but they are just strips of different thickness plywood. Straight fence, I always had problems with the inside curves. Without a fence using just the bearing, I don't feel safe and my speed was not always consistant. When I was an apprentice, my mentor taught me to do it with a post in the router table ... I would always have go back to blend in (sand) where I would go from being supported to unsupported as the material ran out past the post.

With this fence, between the two sides and the inside corners of the curtain fence. It's like using two posts. But mostly, I find it a lot safer shrouding the bit. You should see from the pictures, that it you add shims between the fence and the fence curtain, then you can support the work further from the bit, varying your depth of cut, while shrouding the bit... without having to move the fence base or the bit height.

The angle is 15 degrees off each side. My first attempt at making something like this was only 7-1/2 degrees off each side... but I was still having troubles at that angle getting tight inside curves. So I went to 15 each side.

What brand templates? I guess you would say "Builder's for Life" (where I started out as an apprentice), "Ferreira Enterprizes" (my own) and "Gunderson's and Sons Cabinetry" (a friend's cabinet shop)... Meaning, when I was an apprentice, my mentor taught me how to make templates... But it was easier just to use his templates with a pattern bit to make my own. That way I was consistent with him. Then later, I had to make some of my own (restoration carpentry) to match what was there. That later first one (years later) when I was on my own, I had to remember back to what I was taught (darn it). I make mine from 1/4" hardboard, a calculator and a compass. That, and my friend own's a cabinet shop. So if I need something he has, I can make up copies of his. Besides, the prices they want for them at a woodworking supply is crazy.

EDIT-- Scale reference = That's a 36" wide fence with a 4" DC hood.


bobj3 said:


> Thanks Mike
> 
> Looking forward to it don't get we are talking about " cathedral styled " doors.
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Mike

It will take me a bit to get your way down but I think I will try it..and let you know but the 2 bearing way sure makes it easy... 

You will see in the picture below the big bearing in place on the bit and the smaller ( normal one) in the plastic bag right in front on it...

Why Our Sets Are Best

Smilebox Playback


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MAFoElffen said:


> Bob-
> Here's the pic's (attached). Didn't have time to grab my shims, but they are just strips of different thickness plywood. Straight fence, I always had problems with the inside curves. Without a fence using just the bearing, I don't feel safe and my speed was not always consistant. When I was an apprentice, my mentor taught me to do it with a post in the router table ... I would always have go back to blend in (sand) where I would go from being supported to unsupported as the material ran out past the post.
> 
> With this fence, between the two sides and the inside corners of the curtain fence. It's like using two posts. But mostly, I find it a lot safer shrouding the bit. You should see from the pictures, that it you add shims between the fence and the fence curtain, then you can support the work further from the bit, varying your depth of cut, while shrouding the bit... without having to move the fence base or the bit height.
> ...


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob- 

And I will try out your idea with using different size bearings. I've got a few sets with ranges in sizes that came with slot cutters... But I have to admit, I never thought of using them with door sets.


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## Guarnera (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello Mike and all.
I might have to try out this fence. I can't seem to find a bigger Dia bearing for my cheap Chinese router bit. I need a 5/16th" ID, but the thickness is only 3/16" the rest is takin up by shims. I don't want to change the thickness and have to mess with the shims. So this fence might be the ticket. Thanks again everyone.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Search - bearings

Don't forget 8mm is the same as 5/16"
the one I use are
HC318DZZ $3.90ea.
HC293DZZ $3.90ea

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...ball_bearings.html#ball_bearing_guides_anchor

#237 Metric 8 mm (approx. 5/16") 0.315" 16 mm (approx. 5/8") 0.630" 5 mm $6.00 
#267 Metric 8 mm (approx. 5/16") 0.315" 19 mm (approx. 3/4") 0.748" 6 mm $6.00 
#266 Metric 8 mm (approx. 5/16") 0.315" 22 mm (approx. 7/8") 0.866" 7 mm $6.00 
#231 Metric 8 mm (approx. 5/16") 0.315" 1-1/8" 1.125" 7 mm $7.00 
#263 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 3/4" 0.750" 3/16" $7.00 
#265 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 1" 1.000" 15/64" $7.00 
#264 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 1-1/8" 1.125" 5/16" $7.50 
#227 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 1-1/4" 1.250" 5/16" $8.50 
#228 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 1-3/8" 1.375" 5/16" $9.00 
#229 Std. 1/2" 0.500" 1-1/2" 1.500" 5/16" $9.00 
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Guarnera said:


> Hello Mike and all.
> I might have to try out this fence. I can't seem to find a bigger Dia bearing for my cheap Chinese router bit. I need a 5/16th" ID, but the thickness is only 3/16" the rest is takin up by shims. I don't want to change the thickness and have to mess with the shims. So this fence might be the ticket. Thanks again everyone.


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