# Choosing a router



## billsue997 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi,..I'm retired, and need more to keep me busy. I am shopping for routers,and the Freud FT3000VCE seems to be one i like. I would like to know if using 3 1/2" D. bits would present any problem. I have purchased a table from MLCS with the acrylic insert which has a 3 7/8"D opening. Thank you for any help in this matter.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

If you plan on using 3-1/2" diameter bits then you are best off with one of the 3-1/4 hp routers. To be honest all the major brands offer quality units with little difference in features. Top rated in the last testing I saw was the Bosch 1619. Reasons given were that it had the largest opening for bits and the deepest plunge cutting depth. A couple of staff members own this model and are very happy with it.


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## billsue997 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Mike,.. Thank you for your response. The Freud FT3000VCE is 3 1/4hp, but i haven't been able to find info on the size of the base opening. I have read two different product reports which have different sizes. I did read some of the positive comments from you, and others here on the Bosch 1619, and have not ruled out this router. I am a very new member, and am impressed with the depth of knowledge by all. I look forward to being a part of your forum.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

One thing to consider, Bill, is how you'll be using the router (free-hand vs. table-mounted) and how adaptable a particular model is to varied use. A dedicated plunge router, for example, may be less convenient to adapt to use in a table than a model that has both fixed and plunge bases.

As Mike said, though, most of the major brands are awfully close to each other in terms of core quality. They just have slightly different features, bells and whistles you might say, that will appeal to slightly different user styles.

I think you'll find proponents for most of the major brands among the membership here. Personally, I'm a Porter Cable guy, partly because that's the brand I grew up with, decades ago.


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## billsue997 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Ralph, thank you for your input. As for shopping for routers, or anything, forums such as this are much more interesting than the traditional shopping methods.Thirty years ago I drove to Sears, and more or less chose a router based on the sales person's knowledge alone. The forum method offers much more information, and can be fun. I was looking over your attached photos, great ideas, thank you.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

A potentially amusing story related to your "going to Sears" adventures, Bill. 

When I was a kid, my dad managed a large "old-school" hardware store. The summer before my freshman year in high school (late '50s), he hired me on as a stock and sales clerk. But, I had been helping with inventory since I was about 8, so I already knew the stock pretty well. Plus, I had pestered my dad with "what does this do?" and "why is it made this way?" sort of questions over the years. 

The store was a full-line Delta dealer (meaning we had at least one of everything Delta made), and we carried all of the Porter Cable tools, and most Black & Decker tools, too. Since I didn't want to embarrass my dad, I studied the tool manuals extensively, and learned how to read them upside down, so I could show things to the customer at the counter. The clientele was mostly contractors and industrial-type folks, along with some homeowner/hobbiest folks. It was amusing to see the customers' surprise when a 13-year old kid could analyze their intended tool usage and recommend the appropriate brand and model. 

Back then, the local Sears store didn't carry parts for anything, and didn't know how to order them, either. So, the Sears clerks would send people to us looking for parts, and we'd end up selling them replacement tools.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Ralph,

if you dont mind telling, what is your age?


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

levon said:


> hello Ralph,
> 
> if you dont mind telling, what is your age?


With his freshman HS in the late 50's... I would venture a guestimate of mid to late 60's. I graduated in '61 and I am 65.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

George should have his own detective show on TV. I'm 63.


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## billsue997 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Ralph, I did find your story amusing. Do you have any "old school" hardware stores remaining in your part of the country? I am in western Mass., and most have gone out of business. In my small town we had a general/hardware store with a very small supply of nails, stove pipe, buckle style overshoes, overalls, bolts (stovebolts), and machine screws. One had to go to the city for power tools. Do you think one could find the kind of product knowledge you had, today? I have found that when buying tv's, cameras, and other electronic "must haves", the younger sales staff is very familiar with what they are selling. I don't find that when looking for tools now. I'm from the same vintage as you, and George. I'm 65.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Where I live now (a small town in New Mexico), there's one kinda old-school hardware store, a locally-owned True Value. They have several older clerks who know their stuff, but not much in the way of woodworking tools. Not enough in the way of sales to support the inventory investment.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

bill997 said:


> ...but i haven't been able to find info on the size of the base opening.


The base opening of the FT3000 is 3-5/8". Sorry that I didn't see this question earlier.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

As a rule the sales staff of Rockler and Woodcraft stores are well informed about the tools they carry. I am blessed with many fine tool stores close to me. It is very helpful to be able to walk into one store and put your hands on different brands of routers and compare the features. Any of the major name brand tools will do a good job, but the controls are different between brands. If you have other questions please ask before you make a purchase. We want you to be the best informed shopper you can be.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Ralph Barker said:


> George should have his own detective show on TV. I'm 63.


I'll be 62 in a couple of months. There is a trend in all of this. I'm into model engineering too, as well as miniature railways. The vast majority of people I know in all these hobbies won't see 50 again. There is a huge skill set that gets older every year and isn't being replaced.
I once visited the workshops of the Bank of England, several floors below ground level and there was no-one in there under 40. They couldn't get apprentices.
The great thing about forums like this is that at least the knowledge is being stored and not lost.

Cheers

Peter


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## billsue997 (Mar 10, 2009)

Hi Charles, Thank you for your answer. I have one more question. Will I be able to use 3 1/2" panel raising bits in the FT3000VCE? I have found an FT3000VCE for $290.00 from a wholesaler here in MA. Does the price seem ok for a new FT3000?


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hello!!!

I just came back to my country and I want to upgrade something at my garage-shop including a 10" saw and a 1/2" router. I am looking at some big hardware stores located in my city. I reviewed this forum trying to find some data about a chinese tools brand named MIURA. Does anyone of you know these tools? Some pictures are attached.

I contacted a colleague that is using a table saw like the one in the pictures. He is very happy with it.

Thanking you in advanced.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Alexis, Chinese brand names vary from country to country and often show up as different name brands in the same place. The router design is a copy of the old Hitachi M12 but doesn't develop as much hp. There will be a big difference in quality on the low side. Understanding that your selection is limited I suggest watching the shelf to see how many people are buying this model. Ask the sales clerk how many returns they get. This model may perform well but it is anybodies guess.


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## lastberserker (Sep 24, 2011)

istracpsboss said:


> I once visited the workshops of the Bank of England, several floors below ground level and there was no-one in there under 40. They couldn't get apprentices.


Oh, sweet! Finally I found an occupation where I can still be considered underage :-D


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> With his freshman HS in the late 50's... I would venture a guestimate of mid to late 60's. I graduated in '61 and I am 65.


Hi George,

Congratulations on your early graduation. I wish I could have done the same.

(Sorry for the OT post)

Mike


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

papasombre said:


> Hello!!!
> 
> I just came back to my country and I want to upgrade something at my garage-shop including a 10" saw and a 1/2" router. I am looking at some big hardware stores located in my city. I reviewed this forum trying to find some data about a chinese tools brand named MIURA. Does anyone of you know these tools? Some pictures are attached.
> 
> ...


Hi Alexis,

Both those items look very similar to the GMC range of tools - even down to the colour of the saw stand.

One thing I would check VERY carefully is the collet size of the router.

The box shows 1/2" or 13mm - these are NOT the same size - 1/2" is around 12.7mm.

This could affect what bits you can buy.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Mike and James.

I asked to some people at the store. I made some appointments to pay a visit to their shops to see the real working conditions.

I am a week-end woodworker and I use my tools for small projects, basically kitchen cabinetry. I want a router to fix it permanently to my router table (under construction, right now) and most of you recommend to use router with 1/2" collets. Honestly, here in my country, this kind of tools are very expensive, so you need to have a business to justify the purchase of them. Options for hobbist or DIY are minima.

During my search I have seen routers with 8mm collets. Are they common tools? Are there bits for them?

I will ask to the service department of the stores to follow your recommendations.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

*My new router*

After some days in my country, I finally choose my new router. It is a model 1619EVS from BOSH with a power of 3,25 HP. It has a collet that allows to use both, 1/4" and 1/2" diameter bits. It also has an electronic variable control speed to adjust it to the job. I will use it in my router table which is now under construction.

Sadly I´ll be back to my job so, I won´t use it for a while, but I will read the operating manual to know about its pros and cons.

Here are some pictures.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

that is a nice router model 1619EVS from BOSH . I use it in my table all the time i guess you would call it fix their. I have other router's for other thing's . That is a nice router. When you take the bit out. The nut come's to a tigheten place and than go on and loosen it. Like it take 2 step's to take it out. Than when putting a bit in you probly wont botton out the bit the shaft is very deep. What i do is put the bit down tell it hit's the bottom of the bit than pull it up aprox 1/8" than tighten. On other router's most will bottom out. than you pull the bit up aprox 1/8" again. Nice router good luck


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Alexis,

I think you will be happy with your choice of router.

A number of the members have that model and are very happy.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

del schisler said:


> that is a nice router model 1619EVS from BOSH . I use it in my table all the time i guess you would call it fix their. I have other router's for other thing's . That is a nice router. When you take the bit out. The nut come's to a tigheten place and than go on and loosen it. Like it take 2 step's to take it out. Than when putting a bit in you probly wont botton out the bit the shaft is very deep. What i do is put the bit down tell it hit's the bottom of the bit than pull it up aprox 1/8" than tighten. On other router's most will bottom out. than you pull the bit up aprox 1/8" again. Nice router good luck


Hi, Del.

Which one is the best location for the mounting plate for this router? Do you have some pictures?


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Alexis,
> 
> I think you will be happy with your choice of router.
> 
> A number of the members have that model and are very happy.


Thank you very much, jw2170. I followed yours and others advices to select my new router. The price was high compared with the chinese brand I shown to you but, the lack of a post-sales service lent to me to this BOSH model.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Alexis, you made an excellent choice with the Bosch 1619EVS. You ask about the plate location? Look at the sticky thread under *table mounted routing* for a good basic table top design.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Mike.

Thanks a lot for your recommendation. I checked all the thread you mentioned but there is too much information about. I think that everybody has a criterium for the base plate location. I will take my time to think it about.

Best regards from China.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

I see the pic on the box showe's it with a plunge base ?? That may be kind of hard to work . Their will be some force when you try and move the router up. It will be like plunging the router like if it was on top of the table. You should be ok just a little on the hard side ? You should be ok. On mine i don't have the plunge base just the old router mounted to the router work shop base plate. I work mine every day and it just get a little warm after long use. A very good router. You will like it. I like the soft start and you can slow it down for use with big bit's. good luck


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Del, this is a 1619 3-1/4hp model, like the 1613 the base is the case for the motor. This is different than your 1617 or the 1618 models.


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## shawnr (May 6, 2010)

Peter,

Forums like these are a treasure trove. I have a few years till 40 and am just getting started in this hobby. One of my life regrets is not staying in architecture in college. I might have ended up getting into the construction field. Now, having bought a house and realizing that I can do better work than about 50% of what went into my home, I am determined to learn woodworking from the ground up: furniture, trim, framing...

Sadly, the last school around me closed three months ago. There are classes at woodcraft and rockler, but they seem very basic, but then again I may only need the basics to get going.

Another sad note is how few high schools teach woodworking or any vocational trades. When I was in Indiana they had a great program and at nights they did continuing education. I have yet to find anything like that down here.

However, as you said, there is a massive library of knowledge on this board. And unlike books, you can get real and good feedback from the members.

Thanks to everyone who contributes, both answers and questions.. it really helps out us new guys.

Cheers



istracpsboss said:


> I'll be 62 in a couple of months. There is a trend in all of this. I'm into model engineering too, as well as miniature railways. The vast majority of people I know in all these hobbies won't see 50 again. There is a huge skill set that gets older every year and isn't being replaced.
> I once visited the workshops of the Bank of England, several floors below ground level and there was no-one in there under 40. They couldn't get apprentices.
> The great thing about forums like this is that at least the knowledge is being stored and not lost.
> 
> ...


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