# What causes chips between Chip breaker & Iron on Bench Plane?



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I restored an old 605 plane and chips keep clogging the mouth when they build up between the chip breaker and the iron. I’ve tried adjusting the frog and the mouth opening, but I can’t see that as the problem and I suspect there may be a problem with the chipper. 
Any Ideas?


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

*OK I fixed it!*

It turned out to be the mouth adjustment and I also moved the chipper closer to the edge a little.:smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

FIT THE CHIP BREAKER TO THE BLADE
Most metal bench planes’ irons have a cap iron or chip breaker attached to the back of the iron with a short screw. Once the blade is honed and at least part of the back, near the edge, is flat, then you can make sure the chip breaker fits properly. The chip breaker has several jobs like stiffening the blade and breaking chips into lovely curls. It also clogs with chips if it’s not tight with the back of the iron. Clogging causes all sort of unimaginable misery and at least 5% of bench plane problems. It’s easy to fix. Attach the chip breaker to the back of the iron about 1/16” away from the cutting edge and tighten the screw. Now, hold it up to a light source and see if you can see light between where the two surfaces meet. File, sand or scrape metal away from the cap iron until they meet reasonably well. Don’t obsess about it, because you’ll never get it perfect. Just be aware of it if problems occur, so you’ll know how to fix them....


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Stick, I’m going to check for the light between the two surfaces first thing tomorrow. I haven’t used any of my planes in a couple of years and seem to have forgotten everything.

I need to take a day to sharpen and tune up a whole box of planes so they will be ready to go when I need them. It took me a while to get started today and I was dreading it, but I really enjoyed it once I got going. 










I forgot about how messy it is because I have dust collection on all my power tools. LOL


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

just in case you forgot something...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JohnnyB60 said:


>


nice collection BTW....
FWIW...
use a pen light as a light source to check to see if the iron and chip breaker mate well......
bottom flatness of the iron is very important...
having a flat top is a good thing too...
if the top is cupped or humped when you install the chip breaker it may alter the bevel of the iron...
if the lead edge of the chip breaker is either concave or convex when tightened down it may alter the bevel also...
and if the face of the frog isn't flat you'll just be a puppy chasing it's tail...
once all of the flattening is done you'll never need to again...


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks for all the info Stick, it will come in handy and also thanks for your comment on my collection. For some reason my Bailey No 7 Jointer was not in the box when I took the photo. It must have been when I had a friend sharpen and tune it up for me.

I bought a slab of marble for my flat surface and all the diamond sharpening stones along with other sharpening aids. I made a kit out of it all but I was working 10 hour days and didn’t have the time to do anything with it, but now I’m retired with plenty of time.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JohnnyB60 said:


>


nicely done...

now add one of these...
and you'll never regret it and always wonder where it has been all your life....

Veritas® Mk.II Honing Guide System - Lee Valley Tools


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Cherryville Chuck...

can you amend my post (#6) that reads...

nice collection BTW....
FWIW... 
use a pen light as a light source and check to see if the iron is flat on the top and bottom...
bottom flatness is very important...
if the top is cupped or humped when you install the chip breaker it may alter the bevel of the iron...

to...

nice collection BTW....
FWIW... 
use a pen light as a light source to check to see if the iron and chip breaker mate well......
bottom flatness of the iron is very important... 
having a flat top is a good thing too...
if the top is cupped or humped when you install the chip breaker it may alter the bevel of the iron...
if the lead edge of the chip breaker is either concave or convex when tightened down it may alter the bevel also...
and if the face of the frog isn't flat you'll just be a puppy chasing it's tail...
once all of the flattening is done you'll never need to again...


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Stick, I do need a better guide. :|

I bought the General Tool guide as recommended by one of the "AskWoodMan" YouTube videos and it isn’t worth the money. I tried to modify it a little because the rear wheels aren’t in line with the rest of the tool and as you change angles the tool gets lopsided so I gave up on it completely. I noticed that woodman doesn’t use it in his newer videos.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

If you're looking for a better honing guide you should look at the Veritas MKII

Veritas Tools - Sharpening - Mk.II Honing Guides


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JohnnyB60 said:


> Thanks Stick, I do need a better guide. :|
> 
> I bought the General Tool guide as recommended by one of the "AskWoodMan" YouTube videos and it isn’t worth the money...


that Mk II is in a league all of it's own...
it will improve your sharpening a 100 fold...
heard that of the General many times and a slew of similar others..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@JohnnyB60...

and we never mentioned the flattening of the sole....

other reasons you are getting jammed chips is you are taking too big of a cut/bite and/or the frog is out of adjustment..


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> FIT THE CHIP BREAKER TO THE BLADE
> Most metal bench planes’ irons have a cap iron or chip breaker attached to the back of the iron with a short screw. Once the blade is honed and at least part of the back, near the edge, is flat, then you can make sure the chip breaker fits properly. The chip breaker has several jobs like stiffening the blade and breaking chips into lovely curls. It also clogs with chips if it’s not tight with the back of the iron. Clogging causes all sort of unimaginable misery and at least 5% of bench plane problems. It’s easy to fix. Attach the chip breaker to the back of the iron about 1/16” away from the cutting edge and tighten the screw. Now, hold it up to a light source and see if you can see light between where the two surfaces meet. File, sand or scrape metal away from the cap iron until they meet reasonably well. Don’t obsess about it, because you’ll never get it perfect. Just be aware of it if problems occur, so you’ll know how to fix them....


I don't understand!:no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> i don't understand!:no:


.


.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

I think what stick is saying is this: the chip breaker and the iron have to mesh with each other, ie: no gaps. One might need to flatten the chip breaker where it meets the iron. I've flattened the chip breaker against a piece of sandpaper, much like you would when flattening the back of the iron.

Hope this is what stick meant - if not, just ignore my ramblings.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

So, now that I have your attention and I know that someone is paying attention. 

This may not be just a problem with the chip breaker. You are spot on with how to flatten the chip breaker, Vince. A flat surface and sandpaper. The goal is to get even pressure across the top of the plane iron. NO GAPS...they just suck in the chips. Keep the front of the chip breaker as close as possible to the front of the iron. Just don't change the contact angle on the bottom of the chip breaker...it has to keep the same geometry.

One of the biggest culprits that I have found is trying to take too big of a bite with the iron. The chips should be whisper thin. It they are thick and chunky, then back the iron off. All you are doing is digging in and the chip breaker won't help, and do what it is designed to do. If you can't get there by adjusting the iron in/out, then the frog needs to be tweaked so you can.

Often the iron is too close to the front of the throat opening. The chip jams between the iron and the throat and doesn't break off. First thing to blame...the chip breaker, which is wrong! The chip isn't getting to the breaker it is jamming in the throat.

Everyone seems to want to blame the chip breaker first...not always the case. 

Once you get the geometry correct you have it made...if your iron is truly sharp.

The #605's are very good planes. They were the lynch pins of the trade schools and probably the most common of the Bedrock series. If you find a #605-1/2 snag it...they are fairly rare but use a non-standard iron if I recall correctly.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Bill, well said - much more eloquent than I was. Bottom line, like you said, is "NO GAPS".

When I plane, I pull the iron all the way back so that it is not actually planing. I then advance the iron a bit at a time, until I get whisper thin shavings. Anyway, that's how my dad taught me.
As with everything I do, I take things slow. Once I start to take a shaving, I feel for grain and make sure that I'm planing with the grain. Additionally, I have always skewed the plane so that it isn't going straight down the board.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Now you boys got it!!!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Bill, well said - much more eloquent than I was. Bottom line, like you said, is "NO GAPS".
> 
> When I plane, I pull the iron all the way back so that it is not actually planing. I then advance the iron a bit at a time, until I get whisper thin shavings. Anyway, that's how my dad taught me.
> As with everything I do, I take things slow. Once I start to take a shaving, I feel for grain and make sure that I'm planing with the grain. Additionally, I have always skewed the plane so that it isn't going straight down the board.


Good point on the grain direction! Most folks don't realize it make a great difference which direction you plane. Go against the grain and it WILL dig in.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

well said Bill and Vince....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

If I may, I"d just like to add that hand planes are not everyone's cup of tea. There is considerable maintenance involved, a working knowledge needs to be in place of just how to tune and 'use' a hand plane regardless of style, age, purpose or even mfg. Satisfactory results are earned. They don't come easily and they do come at a cost. Be it in monies, practice and commitment or all three. But for those who do take the time to become proficient with a hand plane, (I will just speak for myself here) the reward is an incredible sense of satisfaction. Taking a cupped, twisted or bowed nasty ole piece of rough cut and as with sand papers, working your way thru the planes to end up with a beautifully square board is as good as it gets to my mind and to my wood working. Starting with winding sticks and a scrub and finishing up with a #3 or #4 smoother is something of a lost art. I have a joiner/planer/table saw and drum sander which see's the vast majority of my work due in large part to the amount of time I can allot to my wood working. However, there are times when I"ll take those nasty boards, spend a few days with sticks and planes squaring up a few boards. These boards take on a special significance to me and to the project. For me, there is a much greater sense of accomplishment when using hand planed wood. The act of planing itself does not necessary make the project any the better or any worse. What is does is add another dimension of craftsmanship, another facet of the art we so much enjoy and take pride in. In a small way, I like to think of it as carrying on the tradition of those who have come before me. A primary tool used by so many, for so long to create works that have withstood the test of time. Be'it a battleship #8, a scrub or an apron plane every shop deserves to have one or two handy, if only for the conversations they are sure to evoke and to answer......"I wonder if.........."..


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@TwoSkies57

Bill - I mentioned in a previous thread some time ago that I've made tables using nothing but hand tools, especially a plane - I does give me a great deal of satisfaction.
My dad was a Second Class Stationary Engineer, working at Algoma Steel in northern Ontario for quite a few years, but.... he was the best handyman I ever knew. Did electrical, plumbing, you name it, in his spare time, built three of our homes. When I was a youngster, still wearing short pants, I accompanied him to a number of his spare jobs "just to hand him tools". He had his Stanley #5 with him all the time and it was probably the most used tool in his toolbox. I have a lot of his tools now that he's passed, but that plane is my most prized possession cause it reminds me of him. I'll pass it onto my grandson when the time is right.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> If I may, I"d just like to add that hand planes are not everyone's cup of tea. There is considerable maintenance involved, a working knowledge needs to be in place of just how to tune and 'use' a hand plane regardless of style, age, purpose or even mfg. Satisfactory results are earned. They don't come easily and they do come at a cost. Be it in monies, practice and commitment or all three. But for those who do take the time to become proficient with a hand plane, (I will just speak for myself here) the reward is an incredible sense of satisfaction. Taking a cupped, twisted or bowed nasty ole piece of rough cut and as with sand papers, working your way thru the planes to end up with a beautifully square board is as good as it gets to my mind and to my wood working. Starting with winding sticks and a scrub and finishing up with a #3 or #4 smoother is something of a lost art. I have a joiner/planer/table saw and drum sander which see's the vast majority of my work due in large part to the amount of time I can allot to my wood working. However, there are times when I"ll take those nasty boards, spend a few days with sticks and planes squaring up a few boards. These boards take on a special significance to me and to the project. For me, there is a much greater sense of accomplishment when using hand planed wood. The act of planing itself does not necessary make the project any the better or any worse. What is does is add another dimension of craftsmanship, another facet of the art we so much enjoy and take pride in. In a small way, I like to think of it as carrying on the tradition of those who have come before me. A primary tool used by so many, for so long to create works that have withstood the test of time. Be'it a battleship #8, a scrub or an apron plane every shop deserves to have one or two handy, if only for the conversations they are sure to evoke and to answer......"I wonder if.........."..


Also, well said, Bill. There is a certain sense of satisfaction and sometimes a real need for the use of hand planes. Sometimes, I can address a problem with a plane quicker then I can set up and use a tool.

I just like working with them. I was frustrated when I first started to learn how to use them...but then it clicked. I understood the interactions and what and how it needed to be done. I haven't looked back.

I just refurbished a Millers Falls #900 last weekend. I don't even remember where it came from. Probably a yard sale. I came across it while straightening up the tools and it just told me it wanted to be cleaned up.

For those who don't know a #900 is roughly equivalent to a Stanley #4. It is painted and the sole and sides are not finely machined. I card scraped the black painted handles and repainted them. The same with the frog, chip breaker, and inside of the sole. 

A sharpened blade and it cut a shaving almost fine enough to read through. It will make a great user for someone who shows an interest in using hand planes. One nice beginners gift. 

It will do the job and make someone happy.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

Very worthwhile thread. Thanks.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Another vote for the Veritas MK2 honing guide and Leonard Lees book is brilliant as well.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Go against the grain and it WILL dig in.


Depends, sometimes a higher angle improves the cut in that situation as it changes the chip type.

That's why old handplanes sometimes have what's called a York Pitch frog and also the reason cabinet scrapers work so well.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

.

.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

All of that^ is how come I have a No 4 Stanley smoother iron currently sitting on my computer desk with the words...

"25 degree straight
13 degree back bevel
57 degree included angle" written on it with a Sharpie :wink:


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

There is a lot here covering sharpening, however no one has touched on the subject of what kind of stone to sharpen on. Diamond, water, oil stones, sandpaper?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Tormek and all of the above...
it all boils down to personal preference and what works for you.....


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> *Tormek* and all of the above...
> it all boils down to personal preference and what works for you.....


Aye, whilst I really rate the Veritas MK2 I got to have a go on a mates Tormek a while ago.

There was a fair heap of chisels that I've had to use on old timbers and dinged the edges on a nail/whatever plus a few I've bought secondhand* and needed to sort out and I wasn't looking forward to doing all them by hand.
It took longer to set the chisel up on the Tormek (and even that didn't take long) than to grind them in most cases.


*I can't pass a decent quality secondhand chisel and feel I have to save them from people who open paint tins with them.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

have the MKII...
everybody should experience one...

Tormek is something isn't it...
I have the 10' and swear by that too.....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

from the library....


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

old coasty said:


> There is a lot here covering sharpening, however no one has touched on the subject of what kind of stone to sharpen on. Diamond, water, oil stones, sandpaper?


Bob

I've used sandpaper on glass, water stones and diamond.

I usually start with sandpaper if there is a lot of work to be done.
Water stones in 1000/4000 combo and then go to my DMT diamond stones for touch up. Oh and a homemade strop for polishing. A piece of leather glued to a piece of 2x4 and charged with some green honing compound. No, I can't afford a Tormek just yet.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> have the MKII...
> everybody should experience one...
> 
> Tormek is something isn't it...
> I have the 10' and swear by that too.....


10 foot Tormek must be a big one


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

old coasty said:


> 10 foot Tormek must be a big one


yup...
go all the way or stay on the porch...


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I have a Work Sharp WS3000 for sharpening chisels although I haven’t used it yet, but I believe it will also sharpen plane irons although I don’t know how to use it yet. :nerd:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of these setups is nice to have when you need to get a chisel or iron back in shape and saves a lot of time sharpening my carpentry chisels with that I risk hitting nails with. Deluxe Power Sharpening Set - Lee Valley Tools The hollow grind does help get a better edge on the chisels and irons and makes honing go faster until it gets to the point where the slope on the bevel is uniform again. Final honing is a felt wheel with the green compound which is equivalent to 8000 grit. When you're done shaving hair off is easy. Carver's Power Sharpening Set - Lee Valley Tools


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

I looked at that, and felt I'd lose control and never get back to slower controlled sharpening. Can't even get a hatchet under control on a grinder.


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