# I think I settled on a starter bit set. Any C&C?



## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

After receiving input in two threads on router bits and doing a bunch of searching, I think I've finally settled on a starter bit set that will meet my needs. Looking for any suggestions, and maybe other new router users might find the info helpful.

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All 1/2" shank bits unless otherwise specified:
CL=Cutting Length, OL=Overall Length

WHITESIDE:
1/4" spiral upcut, 1" CL, 2.5" OL, 1/4" shank
3/8" straight, 1.25" CL, 2-7/8" OL
1/2" spiral upcut, 1.5" CL, 3.5" OL
3/4" straight, 1.5" CL, 3.25" OL
7/8" flush-trim, dual bearings (top & bottom), 1.5" CL, 3.5" OL
45 degree chamfer, 1-1/16" CL, 2.5" OL

HOLBREN: (Two bits for $2.00 due to errors.)
61/128" plywood dado, 1/4" shank, this bit should be 15/32"
23/32" plywood dado, 1/2" shank, correct size but marking on bit in error.

MLCS:
4 roundover bit set. 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2"
1/2" dado cleanout/pattern with top bearing, 1/4" shank

EBAY SUPER CARBIDE TOOLS:
11 piece Tongue & Groove slot cutter set. 9 slot cutters from 3/32" to 3/8" kerfs.

=====

Whiteside bits were chosen for those that I think I will be using the most and for smoother cuts that will be exposed where people will see them. The spiral upcut bits were chosen to have the same cutting diameters as the shank size to be able to plunge down deeper than the cutting edges of the bits. 

The MLCS four roundover bit set was chosen due to the lower cost for 4 bits instead of getting only 2 more expensive roundover bits. Figure should be fine and I can always do some light sanding if necessary. Also, when rounding corners on floating tenons, the tenons are hidden anyway.

I think the 11 piece T&G set will substitute for several other bits. Single cutters for slots, stack cutters for wider kerf cuts to replace rabbet bits, and of course the T&G capability with two 1/2" shank arbors. Will buy additional bearings to vary depth of cuts.

I did not include a dovetail bit. Reason is that I will only be making utility type drawers like kitchen cabinet drawers. I figure that finger joints will be strong enough for these drawers and I can cut them using straight or spiral bits. Plus the joints will be hidden and I will be the only one who sees them... 

EDIT: In the preceeding paragraph, I mistakenly referred to "finger" joints but really had "box" joints in mind. So replace "finger joints" with "box joints".

Any comments or suggestions before I pull the trigger?
Skyglider


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Skyglider said:


> I did not include a dovetail bit. Reason is that I will only be making utility type drawers like kitchen cabinet drawers. I figure that finger joints will be strong enough for these drawers and I can cut them using straight or spiral bits. Plus the joints will be hidden and I will be the only one who sees them...
> 
> Any comments or suggestions before I pull the trigger?
> Skyglider


I applaud the diligence by which you have assembled this remarkable listing. You will, of course, have suitable housing for these excellent choices -- something for protection from rust and "borrowing." The bits that will be most often used will be those borrowed by your neighbours and never returned. (the "I'm not finished with it yet!" syndrome) The rest will succumb to rust long before they will be worn out.

My vote still goes with the local hardware store. Inform him of your list and could he stock such items please. You'll acquire them as needed. Like this when your neighbour asks to borrow that whiteside bit, you can refer him to the hardware store. Just because you asked for it, your merchant should reap a tidy profit from "referrals." Perhaps negotiating a "finders fee" would be in order.

As for the finger joints, I saw a test somewhere on the 'net that compared the strength of a glued finger joint to a glued dovetail joint. The joints were pulled appart and the force measured. The finger joint won. Your selection is, again, remarkable.

Allthunbs


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

Nice set. I think you'll find that you'll love the Whiteside bits. 

Just a suggestion, that, you would consider getting a DT bit. You'll be surprised by the joints that can be made with them compared to just a plain finger joint.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Where is the spiral down cut? 

Its the bit I use most in both 1/8" and 1/4" versions.

If you want clean edges are going to do inlay work or use a lot of plywood the down cut Spiral bit is imperative. An upcut on ply can and will chip out the edges. And on inlay work a down cut is just about required.

Nick


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Allthunbs

"As for the finger joints, I saw a test somewhere on the 'net that compared the strength of a glued finger joint to a glued dovetail joint. The joints were pulled appart and the force measured. The finger joint won."

I know you are said you read that one Net but I do disagree,, I think it would come down to how the force was applied , the way the dovetail joint hangs inside the pocket it would be the best..almost no glue needed on a good dovetail joint...  but once it's glued up it's almost imposable to take it apart without breaking the wood around the joint..  so I would say the dovetail joint is the best and has been for a very long time.. 
You can fine OLD furniture that's 100 years old and that have dovetails joints and they are still holding without the glue unlike the finger joints when you can find them in fine furniture ..


=======


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> I know you are said you read that one Net but I do disagree,, I think it would come down to how the force was applied , the way the dovetail joint hangs inside the pocket it would be the best..almost no glue needed on a good dovetail joint...  but once it's glued up it's almost imposable to take it apart without breaking the wood around the joint..  so I would say the dovetail joint is the best and has been for a very long time..
> You can fine OLD furniture that's 100 years old and that have dovetails joints and they are still holding without the glue unlike the finger joints when you can find them in fine furniture


Actually, the point of failure of the dovetail joint was the wood. The 14 degree angle allowed the wood to shear and became the weak point. The finger joints presented no such weak point.

You must remember, these tests were done using modern glues. The modern glues held completely. In old furniture, glue technology was not nearly as good as today. There, the dovetail reigned and in many respects has become the mark of good cabinetry. However, I've switched to finger joints after seeing the demonstration.

http://woodgears.ca/dovetail/index.html 

Allthunbs


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

You said it, the glues are great so why not use dovetails they are much better looking to me. The finger joint provides a lot of glue surface and usually when I make something the wood is the weak link not the adhesive, so under a stress test like that I could see the finger joint winning, but:

With today's glues I would design for looks, the strength will be plenty enough no matter which joint you choose and is the stuff you make going to go through a torture test? Those tests are far more severe than anything I will make will go through.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Allthunbs

Now I see why the dovetail failed ,, ( blind dovetail joint) the blind dovetail joint is for looks most of the time, it' strong but it will fail easy..  it's only 3/8" deep the norm..  not a fair test.



=======





allthunbs said:


> Actually, the point of failure of the dovetail joint was the wood. The 14 degree angle allowed the wood to shear and became the weak point. The finger joints presented no such weak point.
> 
> You must remember, these tests were done using modern glues. The modern glues held completely. In old furniture, glue technology was not nearly as good as today. There, the dovetail reigned and in many respects has become the mark of good cabinetry. However, I've switched to finger joints after seeing the demonstration.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

When I looked again they were comparing a box joint to a dovetail not a finger joint to a dovetail. Unless I went to the wrong link.

Finger - Box - Dovetail - Box - Dovetail


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

allthunbs said:


> I applaud the diligence by which you have assembled this remarkable listing. You will, of course, have suitable housing for these excellent choices -- something for protection from rust and "borrowing." The bits that will be most often used will be those borrowed by your neighbours and never returned. (the "I'm not finished with it yet!" syndrome) The rest will succumb to rust long before they will be worn out.
> 
> My vote still goes with the local hardware store. Inform him of your list and could he stock such items please. You'll acquire them as needed. Like this when your neighbour asks to borrow that whiteside bit, you can refer him to the hardware store. Just because you asked for it, your merchant should reap a tidy profit from "referrals." Perhaps negotiating a "finders fee" would be in order.
> 
> ...


Allthunbs,

Thanks for your kind words. I had to laugh at your "bits borrowed by neighbors" thing. I thought about that aspect while I was putting my bit list together and decided that if anyone wants to borrow my router, they will have to buy their own bits.

That's interesting about the box vs dovetail joint test. For me the choice of box over dovetail it is strictly a matter of economy rather than strength though.

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nice set. I think you'll find that you'll love the Whiteside bits.
> 
> Just a suggestion, that, you would consider getting a DT bit. You'll be surprised by the joints that can be made with them compared to just a plain finger joint.


Thanks Ken. I do plan to buy some dovetail bits in the future but just omitted them for now since I'm spending more for the bits than my router cost.... 

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> Where is the spiral down cut?
> 
> Its the bit I use most in both 1/8" and 1/4" versions.
> 
> ...


Nick,

Ohhh, I hear you. I had agonized quite a bit whether to spring for spiral down cuts for my starter set. You just pushed me over the edge. What the heck, I'll be spending more than I expected for this bit set anyway so I'll bite the bullet and spend about $15 more for a Whiteside 1/4" spiral down cut. The Whiteside 1/2" all carbide spiral down cut really hurts the pocket book at about $43 a pop so I'll hold off on getting that one for now.

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Skyglider said:


> Nick,
> 
> Ohhh, I hear you. I had agonized quite a bit whether to spring for spiral down cuts for my starter set. You just pushed me over the edge. What the heck, I'll be spending more than I expected for this bit set anyway so I'll bite the bullet and spend about $15 more for a Whiteside 1/4" spiral down cut. The Whiteside 1/2" all carbide spiral down cut really hurts the pocket book at about $43 a pop so I'll hold off on getting that one for now.
> 
> ...


Save somewhere else. Get the carbide. However, I prefer the Freud.

Allthunbs


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Only one suggestion, go with a 3/8" solid carbide spiral upcut bit instead of the straight bit. This will see a lot of action if you make box joints, and since this is half the thickness of the standard lumber (3/4") used for building furniture you can create many additional joints and rabbets with it.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Skyglider said:


> Thanks for your kind words. I had to laugh at your "bits borrowed by neighbors" thing. I thought about that aspect while I was putting my bit list together and decided that if anyone wants to borrow my router, they will have to buy their own bits.


Scroth, I've never been accused of being kind before. Don't say it too loud. I don't want it to get around. ;-) As for loaning out your router, niet, nein, non, no way Jose, mhi, not in this lifetime. We have a television program called "The Red Green Show." You might have heard of it. I would hate to think what he would do with _your_ router. Figure that's what your neighbour's would do. Hmmmm, my neighbour's got this Freud thing called a router. That's just what I need to use as a winch to get my monster truck out of the mud! Enjoy the nightmare. 

Is that being kind?



Skyglider said:


> That's interesting about the box vs dovetail joint test. For me the choice of box over dovetail it is strictly a matter of economy rather than strength though.


I hear you and agree with your position. However, dovetail joints are pretty and if you're doing something to demonstrate your prowess, dovetail joints are "de rigeur." I still haven't figured out how to do half blind finger joints unless I put a panel on the front.

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Skyglider

It's only money, you can't take it with you 

Spiral Upcut / Downcut Starter Sets with free shipping 

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid_sets.html

============




Skyglider said:


> Nick,
> 
> Ohhh, I hear you. I had agonized quite a bit whether to spring for spiral down cuts for my starter set. You just pushed me over the edge. What the heck, I'll be spending more than I expected for this bit set anyway so I'll bite the bullet and spend about $15 more for a Whiteside 1/4" spiral down cut. The Whiteside 1/2" all carbide spiral down cut really hurts the pocket book at about $43 a pop so I'll hold off on getting that one for now.
> 
> ...


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## thistlefly (Dec 2, 2008)

Sometimes the most important answers are the ones to questions you didn't know enough to ask. (I should copyright that, it works well outside forums too! )

In browsing topics of interest to newbies, I haven't taken time to really study things like ideal bit usage... but the answers in this topic and others that cite experience and expertise end up being an effective "unplanned tutorial." (BobJ specifically, great insights!)

Specifically, the upcut/downcut spiral advice, as well as the one about being able to go deeper than the cutting edge with shafts that are the same size as the cutting edges... simple and logical, but never occurred to me.

The upshot is learning to think through each project AND each cut... thanks for the "thought jig," folks!

Bob


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Skyglider
That's a nice bit set you've chosen, but if you are trying to save money I would scrap the dado bit set. You can do anything with the straight bits you have chosen that the dado set can do. I would be tempted to get a 1\2" straight bit just to keep things simple. With a T-square you could make all you dadoes and rabits. The down spiral bit is very good but unless you are an experinced woodworker it will probably a while before you attempt inlays. Just do not cheap out, its sounds like you are planning to use plywood veneer and in my experience the inexpensive bits are fine for grooves but cause tearout in dados, (that ****'s me off.)
Good Luck


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Guys

If you use plywood veneer ( like most do now days) it's worth the money to buy a bit that can do that job without making a mess out of the job...veneer is great stuff but it can be PIA ,,,we all buy great saw blades to cut it clean why not a good router bit to do the same...

====

Compression Up/Down Spiral Router Bit

This 2 flute solid carbide bit is needed to get clean, chip-free and splinter-free cuts in composite sheet goods such as Melamine or 2-sided Formica/Laminates and veneered plywood. 
The Up-shear/Down-shear design of the bit cuts toward the center of the sheet from both sides at once, saving time and eliminating waste

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_solid.html


==========


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Do you have that compression bit Bob? 

That is a darn good price on a compression bit, I think most companies charge around 60.00 to 80.00.


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

I like MLCS, but I like this round over set better.

http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/Bit-6-pc-Set-1-2-Shank/H3428

You have to pay shipping but theres 2 extra bits and they come a little sharper than MLCS. Plus they have the shear angle.

As for the spirals, Hartville has them at 20% off right now with free shipping on orders over $75.

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11650


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> When I looked again they were comparing a box joint to a dovetail not a finger joint to a dovetail. Unless I went to the wrong link.
> 
> Finger - Box - Dovetail - Box - Dovetail


Oops mia culpa - désolé

Allthunbs


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

allthunbs said:


> Save somewhere else. Get the carbide. However, I prefer the Freud.


Agree about all carbide spiral bits (as opposed to HSS spiral bits). The 1/4" spiral downcut I'm adding will be all carbide as are both spiral upcuts bits on my original list.

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nick

Yes I have one,,  it has it's own little box 
I use it only for the spec. vern. plywood it's the best price I found on that type of bit..it's razor sharp...and it will cut your fingers if you run it down the sharp edge...


======



nickao65 said:


> Do you have that compression bit Bob?
> 
> That is a darn good price on a compression bit, I think most companies charge around 60.00 to 80.00.


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

Mike said:


> Only one suggestion, go with a 3/8" solid carbide spiral upcut bit instead of the straight bit. This will see a lot of action if you make box joints, and since this is half the thickness of the standard lumber (3/4") used for building furniture you can create many additional joints and rabbets with it.


Mike,

This is a very interesting suggestion. If you had 3 all carbide spiral upcut bits in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2", and 3 carbide straight bits in those sizes, when would you use the straight bits, if ever?

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Skyglider
> 
> It's only money, you can't take it with you
> 
> ...


Bob,

1. It seems you prefer more, less expensive MLCS spiral bits over less, more expensive Whiteside spiral bits. Is that a correct assumtion?
(Guess in a way I'm asking if you think the cut quality of the MLCS spiral bits is close enough to the cut quality of the Whiteside spiral bits.)

2. Also, I'll ask you the same question that I asked Mike. If you had the same diameter bits in both spiral upcut and straight, when would you use the straight bits, if ever?

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Skyglider

This is just a butt in post 

To me it's like the shoes you have, sometimes you want to look the best you can and sometimes you just need to cut the grass and you slip on the old shoes to get the job done, and you want to keep the good ones nice and clean and sharp looking...

The carbide spiral bits can plunge but the normal straight bits can't do that job very well ..the right shoes for the right job...  LOL 


====






Skyglider said:


> Mike,
> 
> This is a very interesting suggestion. If you had 3 all carbide spiral upcut bits in 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2", and 3 carbide straight bits in those sizes, when would you use the straight bits, if ever?
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Skyglider

" MLCS spiral bits" ,,,price is a big deal to me ,, but SOLID CARBIDE is SOLID CARBIDE 
I don't know how you can make it better than it is..maybe by it grinding sharper than the other other guys but the MLCS ones stand up well for me..

=====


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

waynoe said:


> Skyglider
> That's a nice bit set you've chosen, but if you are trying to save money I would scrap the dado bit set. You can do anything with the straight bits you have chosen that the dado set can do. I would be tempted to get a 1\2" straight bit just to keep things simple. With a T-square you could make all you dadoes and rabits. The down spiral bit is very good but unless you are an experinced woodworker it will probably a while before you attempt inlays. Just do not cheap out, its sounds like you are planning to use plywood veneer and in my experience the inexpensive bits are fine for grooves but cause tearout in dados, (that ****'s me off.)
> Good Luck


Hi Waynoe,

Actually the only reason I added the 2 Holbren dado bits is because they are selling for only $1.00 per bit. (This is noted in my bit list.) They come in a two bit set so the total cost is $2.00. Just too cheap to pass up getting two more good quality bits.

Nope, don't plan to do any inlays anytime soon. I only agonized about adding spiral downcut bits to my list since they leave clean top edges with little or no tearout, especially in plywood. I won't be building any fine furniture though. I wonder if spiral downcuts are overkill for my current needs? Maybe I'll look into getting shear downcut bits instead of spiral downcuts. The shear downcut bits should be quite a bit cheaper than the all carbide downcut bits.

Thanks,
Skyglider


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

RustyW said:


> I like MLCS, but I like this round over set better.
> 
> http://www.grizzlyindustrial.com/products/Bit-6-pc-Set-1-2-Shank/H3428
> 
> ...


Hi Rusty,

The Grizzly flush-trim/roundover 6 bit set does indeed look like a bargain. Which bits have the shear angle and how did you determine that? I looked all over the page and could not see any reference to shear angle.

The Hartville sale on spirals is good to know about. From just a quick overview with no actual calculation, the MLCS spiral upcut bit set that Bobj referenced does appear to be cheaper.

Thanks much for your input!
Skyglider


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

These are the only bits I ever cut my finger on taking them out of the box.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Skyglider said:


> Hi Waynoe,
> 
> Actually the only reason I added the 2 Holbren dado bits is because they are selling for only $1.00 per bit. (This is noted in my bit list.) They come in a two bit set so the total cost is $2.00. Just too cheap to pass up getting two more good quality bits.
> 
> ...


The shear down cuts are nicer than regular straight bits but the spiral are a full step up. If you have a situation where the regular shear bits are not working then test a spiral. Once I went spiral I never went back. But it is dependent on the work you do. As you use the bits you will see what you need. 

The regular shear bits are not going to plunge into ply and give you the finish the spiral will. They will be great for jointing and nice for flush cutting.

My favorite shear flush cut bit is from CMT:

CMT Shear Flush Cut Bit


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

RustyW said:


> These are the only bits I ever cut my finger on taking them out of the box.


You have a sharp eye Rusty. I completely missed the "shear" word. 

Thanks,
Skyglider (Who can't see the forest for the trees)


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

Anymore I prefer the spiral bits over the straight bits. Again, this is just a personal preference.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi,
> 
> Anymore I prefer the spiral bits over the straight bits. Again, this is just a personal preference.


Hi Ken:

I've always felt that the spirals were good for plunging and OK for side cuts. However, the straight bits were mangle city for plunging but nice for side cuts. Have you different experience?

Allthunbs


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi allthunbs,

I like to work with Pine which everyone knows is "sappy". There were times a straight bit wouldn't leave a very clean side cut. If I used a spiral, it was always a smooth clean cut. I would even get a cleaner cut from a rabbet bit. My straight bits are new and sharp. It boils down to the wood itself. Each his/her own I guess.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi allthunbs,
> 
> I like to work with Pine which everyone knows is "sappy". There were times a straight bit wouldn't leave a very clean side cut. If I used a spiral, it was always a smooth clean cut. I would even get a cleaner cut from a rabbet bit. My straight bits are new and sharp. It boils down to the wood itself. Each his/her own I guess.


I see. I usually work with spruce or fir. Pine is too expensive, even the finger joint stuff. 

I'm starting to work with hardwoods from skids now. Experience? Suggestions? Oak seems to be a favourite wood with the skid builders although I have some hard softwoods. No pine though.

I'm open to experience and suggestions here, anybody got an opinion on the use of specific bits i.e. spiral vs. straight vs. rabbet vs. ? All of this information is stored in the brains of all of the "old timers" we just have to weasel it out!

Allthunbs


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## thistlefly (Dec 2, 2008)

*Settled on a set myself...*

Just figured I'd join an existing, rich thread rather than start my own.

After scouring the forums for information and opinions, I've ordered this 24-bit set:

http://pricecutter.com/general-purpose-set/p/P19-1073/

Why? Well, the PriceCutter line looks solid, from everything I can see, and this set seems to not stray too far from the "ten essential bits," while adding some reasonable benefits, such as the plywood dados.

I figured I would get my own slot-cutter rather than get a megabit-set that included one or two. Though I haven't pulled the trigger yet, what I'm planning at the moment is the stackable set here:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_slot.html#222

I really like flexibility, and this set looks like it will provide it in spades.

I figure I will need to add spiral upcuts, possibly downcuts, but since my planned MLCS order will be over $50, I plan on waiting for my discount coupone before "plunging"  in further.

Once I get through the catchup tasks planned for the holidays, I have my eye set on building one or more of the MLCS-plan cedar chests here:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/project-plans.html

The Shaker-style bit set that MLCS markets using this chest includes a locking drawer joint bit, a glue joint bit, and the panel and stile bits needed for the raised panels in the chest... that just so happen to match the panels in some other pieces that I plan. 

It's Christmas, ya know, and dat's da truth...

Thanks again to all of you for the incredible wealth of information here!

Bob


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Skyglider
> 
> This is just a butt in post
> 
> ...


What a great thread!

BobJ3 is right, of course. Normal straight bits are not designed for plunge cuts. As far as I can tell, this fact is a "dirty little secret". There are straight bits designed for plunge cutting available from many sources such as MLCS. These bits have an extra blade that crosses the center of the bottom of the bit. Freud straight bits do not appear to have that extra blade but they also plunge cut well. I am confused by the claim by MLCS that their Katana (better) line carbide straight bits do not plunge cut. I do not own any of those bits (but I do own some of the plunge cutting straight bits, and they work well for me)

Totally irrelevant to this thread, but the cold weather in much of the US right now is 1. about 10 to 20° F (6 to 13°C) warmer than a similar cold snap 20 years ago and 2. could be the result of global warming as the rapid late melt of the arctic ice cap generated huge amounts of cold fresh (not dense) ocean water. I am looking into this possibility.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi mftha

"global warming as the rapid late melt of the arctic ice cap generated huge amounts of cold fresh (not dense) ocean water."

Right on,,,once it stops the banana belt flow, watch parts of the upper USA,UK,France,etc. turn into a big ice cube...
I think they are saying now that billions and billions of gallons of fresh water is now running into the Great Lakes and the Atlantic ocean ..

The guy that made the movie ( _ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ) got it right I think ..

*Things to come* 
_
====



mftha said:


> What a great thread!
> 
> BobJ3 is right, of course. Normal straight bits are not designed for plunge cuts. As far as I can tell, this fact is a "dirty little secret". There are straight bits designed for plunge cutting available from many sources such as MLCS. These bits have an extra blade that crosses the center of the bottom of the bit. Freud straight bits do not appear to have that extra blade but they also plunge cut well. I am confused by the claim by MLCS that their Katana (better) line carbide straight bits do not plunge cut. I do not own any of those bits (but I do own some of the plunge cutting straight bits, and they work well for me)
> 
> Totally irrelevant to this thread, but the cold weather in much of the US right now is 1. about 10 to 20° F (6 to 13°C) warmer than a similar cold snap 20 years ago and 2. could be the result of global warming as the rapid late melt of the arctic ice cap generated huge amounts of cold fresh (not dense) ocean water. I am looking into this possibility.


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## Skyglider (Nov 2, 2008)

Here's a list of the bits I finally decided on. It is similar to my list in the first post of this thread modified by input I received. The changes are marked with an * prefix. I wanted to buy the Grizzly roundover bit set that was suggested but the additional shipping charge was the stopper on that one.

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All 1/2" shank bits unless otherwise specified:
CL=Cutting Length, OL=Overall Length

WHITESIDE:
1/4" spiral upcut, 1" CL, 2.5" OL, 1/4" shank
* 3/8" spiral upcut, 1-1/4" CL, 3" OL
1/2" spiral upcut, 1.5" CL, 3.5" OL
* 3/4" straight, 1.25" CL, 3" OL
7/8" flush-trim, dual bearings (top & bottom), 1.5" CL, 3.5" OL
45 degree chamfer, 1-1/16" CL, 2.5" OL

HOLBREN: (Two bits for $2.00 due to errors.)
61/128" plywood dado, 1/4" shank, this bit should be 15/32"
23/32" plywood dado, 1/2" shank, correct size but marking on bit in error.

MLCS:
4 roundover bit set. 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2"
1/2" dado cleanout/pattern with top bearing, 1/4" shank
* 1/4" two flute shear downcut, 3/4" CL
* 3/8" two flute shear downcut, 1" CL
* 1/2" two flute shear downcut, 1" CL

EBAY SUPER CARBIDE TOOLS:
11 piece Tongue & Groove slot cutter set. 9 slot cutters from 3/32" to 3/8" kerfs.

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The Whiteside 3/8" straight bit was replaced with a spiral upcut due to Mike's (senior moderator) suggestion. 

The 3/4" straight bit was changed from a 1.5" CL to a 1.25" CL since I thought the shorter cutting length would be better for strength of the bit. 

As previously mentioned in this thread, the two Holbren plywood dado bits only cost $2.00 total. ($1.00 each!) They are just too good a deal to pass up.

The three MLCS two flute shear downcut bits were added due to Nickao65's suggestion to get spiral downcut bits. But spiral downcut bits are fairly expensive and I already spent a bundle on the three Whiteside spiral upcut bits. So I decided to get the three MLCS "shear" downcut bits which were much cheaper and could do a similar job as "spiral" downcuts I think. 

The Ebay 11pc T&G slot cutter set was in my original list, but it might be worth noting that Bobj suggested it over the MLCS slot cutting set in another thread. Although it is more expensive than the MLCS set, I think it will be more versatile and worth the additional $. 

Thanks to Brian at Holbren who patiently answered questions I had on specific Whiteside bits. Holbren has free shipping on purchases over $75 to all 50 states. 
And thanks to all who contributed to this thread. Although I may not have mentioned your name, "every" post is appreciated.

Skyglider


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