# Red Freud., Black Freud "industrial"



## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

What (if any) is the difference between red Freud and black Freud "Industrial" bits?

I bought a 99-036 Adjustable Tongue & Groove Bit Set which is black not red.

I have a couple of the black "Diablo" HSS Forstner bits which aren't carbide like my red carbide Forstners, but in this case the part numbers seem to be the same for red and black.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Drew,

You may wish to contact Charles M. He works for Freud, I'm sure he can explain the difference between the two.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Drew 

I did ask Charles M. the same question but I don't recall what he came back with for sure, but you can read his posted items and you may find it..

I think it was they are all made the same way but some are painted black.

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BUT you can wait and he will log in on Monday I'm sure, the normal is about 7:00 AM Denver time...and with luck he will see your post or you can PM him if you have 10 or more posted items..

Red and Black bits from Freud plus Avanti bit set

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-041-...f=sr_1_82?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220915897&sr=1-82
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-61-102-...f=sr_1_84?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220915897&sr=1-84
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-472-...f=sr_1_79?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220915897&sr=1-79
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-039-...f=sr_1_88?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220915897&sr=1-88
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-88-100-...f=sr_1_89?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220915897&sr=1-89
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-267-...sr_1_102?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220916132&sr=1-102

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-A91220-...sr_1_105?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220916132&sr=1-105
http://www.amazon.com/Freud-98-318-...sr_1_112?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1220916132&sr=1-112


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Drew Eckhardt said:


> What (if any) is the difference between red Freud and black Freud "Industrial" bits?
> 
> I bought a 99-036 Adjustable Tongue & Groove Bit Set which is black not red.
> 
> I have a couple of the black "Diablo" HSS Forstner bits which aren't carbide like my red carbide Forstners, but in this case the part numbers seem to be the same for red and black.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The short answer is the red bits are the top of the line. Anything else is lesser quality/cost. The Avanti bits from Freud is one example. Same basic design but the carbide is not as thick and no red coating which is their answer to build up and friction. This holds true of saw blades as well. You will find Freud blades in a plain silver finish, again these are the lower quality/cost versions.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

Mike said:


> The short answer is the red bits are the top of the line. Anything else is lesser quality/cost. The Avanti bits from Freud is one example. Same basic design but the carbide is not as thick and no red coating which is their answer to build up and friction. This holds true of saw blades as well. You will find Freud blades in a plain silver finish, again these are the lower quality/cost versions.


Those bits/blades are marked Avanti/Diablo and are a great way to reach a broader, price conscious market without diluting the Freud brand.

In this case we have the same "Freud Industrial" branding on both bit flavors and same customer-visible part number (99-036 in my case) being used by retailers, the Freud web-site, packaging, and even the bit-shanks. That's a product labeling problem especially when people are ordering on-line.

I work and sleep during the week. Given a choice between using a half hour of my limited free time to drive to and from a decent tool store and having a package waiting for me when I get home I nearly always choose the on-line order.

I'm only mildly disappointed here - the bits are sharp, the adjustable groove cutter is unique at the price point, and the opposing shear angles on the tongue cutter mean both sides of the plywood are more likely to stay nice. At the rate I get things done I doubt I'll wear either bit out soon eough to care about life time.

As an edit - the most likely explanation is that Freud slot cutters are now painted black - all of the other slot-cutters(stacked or single; separate or affixed to a panel raiser) on Freud's web site and that Bob pointed out are black and IIRC the production date on my bits was in the last couple of months. If that's the case, I don't care. If the black paint is cheaper than the plastic-like red coating and doesn't touch the wood (there's a lot of clerance between the slot cutter body and carbide edges) it's a smart cost reduction.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> What (if any) is the difference between red Freud and black Freud "Industrial" bits?
> 
> I bought a 99-036 Adjustable Tongue & Groove Bit Set which is black not red.
> 
> I have a couple of the black "Diablo" HSS Forstner bits which aren't carbide like my red carbide Forstners, but in this case the part numbers seem to be the same for red and black.


Drew,

The 99-036 is an example of the bits that we produce that are not PermaSHIELD coated. Currently we do not coat bit components that are stacked to ensure accuracy. The quality of these bits and their components is identical to that of the red bits. This is also true of the slot cutters that are available for arbors as well as those that are integral to the rail and stile bit sets.

As mentioned in this thread, we also offer the Avanti bits that are uncoated and these have slightly thinner carbide tips so they represent a lower price point. Diablo bits are the same as the standard bits but currently have gold coating instead of the Freud red.


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## JoeM (May 28, 2009)

Charles M said:


> ...
> As mentioned in this thread, we also offer the Avanti bits that are uncoated and these have slightly thinner carbide tips so they represent a lower price point. Diablo bits are the same as the standard bits but currently have gold coating instead of the Freud red.


Have things changed?

The Diablo bit DR44100 at Home Depot is red and looks identical to the red Freud Bearing Flush Trim bit 44-100. The Freud is labeled as an "Industrial Router Bit" Is there any difference between this Freud bit and this Diablo bit? If so, what?

Should I start a new thread for this?

Thanks,

JoeM


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JoeM said:


> Have things changed?
> 
> The Diablo bit DR44100 at Home Depot is red and looks identical to the red Freud Bearing Flush Trim bit 44-100. The Freud is labeled as an "Industrial Router Bit" Is there any difference between this Freud bit and this Diablo bit? If so, what?
> 
> ...



*an up date to the current status on Freud differences...*

All Freud blades come from the same machines in the same manufacturing plant. We make our own micrograin carbide in numerous formulations that represent various degrees of hardness. The carbide is selected depending on the intended application (the hardest is used for laminates the softest for ripping) as are the tooth angles and tooth quantity. The steel for the blade plates is all the same grade. The brazing is all the same. The key differences between the 2 main lines of Freud blades are:

The LU/LM Industrial blades have the thickest tips for the most resharpenings and are generally full kerf. We also offer the most selection of specialty blades in this line. These have the most appeal to professionals who need to get a lot of sharpenings out of a blade and to artisans who need specialty blades for their projects.

The Diablo line has blades intended for purposes like framing, siding, decking and general home improvement and is packaged and promoted in ways that appeal to contractors and DIYers. 

Do professional woodworkers shop for blades at Home Depot? Probably some do and they can get excellent performance from a Diablo blade for a lot of their uses but with a shorter overall life (and lower cost) due to the tip thickness. 

Why not compare a Diablo blade to Forrest? Consider this analogy: Toyota cars and Lexus cars share a lot of the same components and are made by the same company. Would you compare a Camry with a BMW?

We make a fourth line of blades (F400 Premier series) that is very similar to the WWII and is priced similarly. The difference between ours and Forrest's is that ours is made by computer controlled, super modern equipment and theirs is made by hand. Both methods have advantages and disadvantages but I leave the final verdict to the consumer.

Charles M
Freud, Inc.


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## JoeM (May 28, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> *an up date to the current status on Freud differences...*
> 
> All Freud blades come from the same machines in the same manufacturing plant. We make our own micrograin carbide in numerous formulations that represent various degrees of hardness. The carbide is selected depending on the intended application (the hardest is used for laminates the softest for ripping) as are the tooth angles and tooth quantity. The steel for the blade plates is all the same grade. The brazing is all the same. The key differences between the 2 main lines of Freud blades are:
> 
> ...


Thanks. 

I don't think I know enough about Freud's terminology to relate "LU/LM Industrial blades" to the Freud red router bits I am concerned with. The bits have an insert with the word "industrial" on it. Does this mean that they have more carbide than the Diablo? Are the cutting edges sharper than the Diablo? Is the carbide harder than the Diablo or does the fact that they are both used for the same thing mean that the carbide is the same (per Charles M)? 

I will be using the bits to finish about 50' of edges on 3/4" Hodrotek BS1088 plywood (11 ply) with a manual 1/4" router. I expect all that glue will be somewhat tough on the bits. I may have to clean the bits and maybe even do a diamond touch-up to hone the cutting edge. I want a real clean edge on the wood so I want to avoid bits that dull very easily.

Joe M


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JoeM said:


> Thanks.
> 
> I don't think I know enough about Freud's terminology to relate "LU/LM Industrial blades" to the Freud red router bits I am concerned with. The bits have an insert with the word "industrial" on it. Does this mean that they have more carbide than the Diablo? Are the cutting edges sharper than the Diablo? Is the carbide harder than the Diablo or does the fact that they are both used for the same thing mean that the carbide is the same (per Charles M)?
> 
> ...


LU/LM is saw blades...
Diablo is Freud's economy line...
More carbide on the Freud industrial bits...

so pretty much yeas to all of your questions...


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