# I May Be Sorry For Showing This, But Here Goes..



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I am really taking a risk by starting this thread. The reason is that our friend Harry and I have been doing some back and forth about what I am going to tell you about and try to explain to the members of this forum.

Sometime back I started to try t make some small boxes using the Incra jig, but could not install the small hinges required for the lid and at that time just gave it up until I could figure out how to drill the holes properly for the little hinges. I could not find a VIX bit that was small enough to do the job.

Last year while in the hospital trying to recover from Echoli poisoning I had a lot of time to just think and I came up with an idea, all in my head of course. A few days ago I decided to try to actually make the jig or tool, or what ever, I'm not sure what to call it. I have been reluctant to put this on the forum due to Harry's comments about it being to complicated and so unnecessary. Harry asked me for some photos to help him understand and after making them for him I have changed my mind about putting the idea on this forum. I am not looking so much for comment on the jig, but more on whether or not anybody can understand from the photos how the darn thing works.

Harry has accused me of re-inventing the wheel, but when I ran into my problem, I didn't know about the wheel and needed to find a way to accomplish what I needed to do and of course that was to drill the holes in exactly right place, that means the correct distance from the edge of a box to match the holes in the hinge, the perfect distance between the holes and of course it is a must that the holes be dead center in the holes of the hinge so that the heads seat properly in their recesses. It is important also that the hinges be centered on the box, each hinge should be the same distance from their respective corners. The tool, or jig that I made does all of these things simply, very fast and and extremely accurate.

The first picture in the series is just an overall view of the tool. I is attached to a bench drill press. There is a base table that is attached with two bolts to the base of the drill press and then there is a sliding table attached to that base table with a rear fence and side fences. On each end of the sliding table is a locking mechanism which is made of all thread, an EZ insert and and a knob, you will see them in the photo. There is a micro adjust to move the the sliding table back and forth so that the position of the bit can be set to drill a hole the correct distance from the edge of the box for the hinge.

The reat of the photos are the ones that I made for Harry and hopefully will explain how the holes are drilled. 

As I said earlier, I am just wondering if the jig can be understood by members looking at this thread. I really don't care what anybody thinks of it, as it works well for me and its ability to do what I made it for is not in question for me at this time.

I had ten photos to show, but found that I a limited to eight, but the last two that you cannot see are not needed for a person to get the drift of what is going on.

Perhaps the whole point of this is how I found out how differenctly one person thingks about a matter compared to another. Harry and my back and forth has taught me this and for that I am thankful for his thoughts, attempt to help etc, Harry is great guy go have for a friend.

Jerry


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

The pictures and narrative are clear to me.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not quite sure how the scrap piece is used to set the distance for the opposite hinge but the rest seems clear. Using a shim for the spacing is really simple. I personally wouldn't be that picky about getting the hinges perfectly spaced. Measuring is close enough for me. If you are off just slightly no one would ever know. I do agree about getting the holes perfectly spaced so that the screws seat into the countersinks. That is something that is very noticeable.

By the way, that is a nice looking box. I like the contrasting wood and the way you cut the feet out of it.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

In regard to Charles' post about the centering issue not being so important. It is import to me due to the way the set up on the router table is done to cut the mortises for the hinges. The way I do it requires a perfect set up for a one cut pass that will cut the mortise so that the hinges fits snug in the mortise and the holes are still dead on. Not an easy thing for me and knowing that the hinges are spaced properly for the router set is the only reason for getting them centered so precisely. The set up lets me cut one of the mortises on the carcass and the opposite mortise for the lid, then a I reset the stops for the other two cuts and unless the holes for the hinges are perfectly centered the mortises won't match after they are cut, but they do match by doing the it the way I do. If you don't get what I'm saying, ask me to try again.

Jerry

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry, I remember you emailing me about this and asking me about centering jigs.

I have a question on Image #3, Narrative #1, "...The bit must go deep enough to allow the top of the box of be cut off later."

Could you explain that? 

It sounds like, and the wood residue on the drill bit in the picture looks like you are drilling about 3/4" to 1" deep centered in the stock. Then the narrative says you are cutting off a top out of that-- ...so the pilot holes for both the top and bottom would line up? ...because originally they were the same holes? Then by the time you mortise for the hinges in the top and bottom piece, the pilot holes would be a little over 3/8" each? 

Is that what that is saying?

I can see that being centered and plump would be an important factor in drilling such a deep hole in thin stock...


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Jerry, I remember you emailing me about this and asking me about centering jigs.
> 
> I have a question on Image #3, Narrative #1, "...The bit must go deep enough to allow the top of the box of be cut off later."
> 
> ...


Mike,
You are correct. If I want to cut the lit off at a point further from the top and the drill bit isn't long enough to drill deep enough, the holes in the carcass can be drilled deeper after the top has been cut off. Are we still on the same page.

I need to take photos of the way the mortises are cut and show the set up on the router table, it is really very simple if the holes are drilled correct. If they are off a little a little adjustment on the set up will compensate for the error, but I like to center the drilling because it is so easy to do.

By the way, the holes are not centered on the edge of the the board, they set in from the edge he distance required for the holes in the hinges to line up, therefore the set up will work on any width of material used for making the box. If the lid is one inch deep after cutting it off, the original drilling requires that the bit drill about 1.5" deep.

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am really taking a risk by starting this thread. The reason is that our friend Harry and I have been doing some back and forth about what I am going to tell you about and try to explain to the members of this forum.
> 
> Sometime back I started to try t make some small boxes using the Incra jig, but could not install the small hinges required for the lid and at that time just gave it up until I could figure out how to drill the holes properly for the little hinges. I could not find a VIX bit that was small enough to do the job.
> 
> ...


Jerry, up to 20 photographs can be attached to a single post. What happened to the shot with the hinges fitted??????????????????? Just wondering.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> Jerry, up to 20 photographs can be attached to a single post. What happened to the shot with the hinges fitted??????????????????? Just wondering.


It appeared to that eight was he limit, don't know how to add more in limited space that I found, if somebody can tell me how to add more photos I will do it, you said nothing about if you could understand thee photos or not. 

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Harry says that the photos are to small and to dark for the forum, they look fine to me, do the rest of you folks have problems seeing the photos?

Jerry


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## twcustoms (Oct 26, 2013)

A little dark but still very visable. I have less wood working experience than most people on this forum. But I definitely understood it., My wife says if I can do it, anybody can do it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jerry Bowen said:


> It appeared to that eight was he limit, don't know how to add more in limited space that I found, if somebody can tell me how to add more photos I will do it, you said nothing about if you could understand thee photos or not.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, after clicking "manage attachments" you get this screen which as you see has 10 lines for photos, when these have been uploaded the screen comes back ready for the next 10 photos.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

With all due respect to the opinion of others each individual involved in woodworking will find their "own way" of accomplishing a given task. Like you, when I run into a problem I will sit and think through how* I *will get the job done. Although I respect the ingenuity of other woodworkers, and sometimes adopt their methods, I am hard headed enough to find the way that works for me. That said, I have been a woodworker for at least 40 years and I still learn every day from others methods. Reading posts on this forum has been very informative to me. Never be reluctant to post your ideas, you might just come up with a better mouse trap. I had no problem understanding what you were trying to do.


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I think I get it Jerry. I am a bit of an efficiency nut and obsess over how to do it better and faster. At the same time I try to shut that off when woodworking, because it is supposed to be something I do to "relax" haha. But I still find myself obsessing over faster better...

So obsess away my brother! and enjoy your woodworking


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Thank you for sharing! Never be afraid to share your ideas on what you have done. Because of your own tooling, skills, interests, coming up with a jig to do a specific task is far from reinventing the wheel.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Harry says that the photos are to small and to dark for the forum, they look fine to me, do the rest of you folks have problems seeing the photos?
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, we have discussed at length how to make the pictures appear lighter without having to go to PhotoShop.

As far as size goes, they are OK, but if you are going into PS to resize them anyway, I would make them 1024 x 768.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Jerry, we have discussed at length how to make the pictures appear lighter without having to go to PhotoShop.
> 
> As far as size goes, they are OK, but if you are going into PS to resize them anyway, I would make them 1024 x 768.


James,
I do not have a telephone camera so the Canon Rebel XTI ten MB camera is my only option for taking photos for the forum. When the csmera is set at ISO 100 the file size is 1.01 MB, at 200 ISO the file is 1.2 MB, and at ISO 400 the file is 1.32 MB, all of which, I think, are a little to large for the forum due to the time it takes to upload and download files. So, I still need to thake them to PS and resize them. For that reason there probably is no need to take the time switch from L to S when taking photos for the forum. Then since I have them in PS I might as well open the histobram and balance the brightness. Of course I suppose that I could boost the light output of the on board flash. What is your thinking about the conclusion that Iz am being led to in regard what I have just written back to you?

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I know that my Canon camera is a toy compared to yours Jerry but the software that came with it allows me to reduce the size from what I take the shot at which is over 1Mg to whatever I like which normally is 600 x 450. I then bring the shot into Photoshop and touch up things like the low lights by pulling the "curve" and often also click on "sharpen"


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

As you said, Jerry, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

If you make the adjustments I suggested (use on board flash) in "P" mode the lighting should be OK.

But if you are going into PS to resize, there is nothing to stop you adjusting the brightness at the same time.

However, do not get into the habit of using PS to adjust a badly lit picture which can be taken correctly by the camera in the first place.

Try some different mode setting to see the results.

Try "M" setting, ISO 100, speed 125, F stop 6.3 with on board flash, at a range of 4 ft and see what you get. Work from there.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> As you said, Jerry, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
> 
> If you make the adjustments I suggested (use on board flash) in "P" mode the lighting should be OK.
> 
> ...


James,
I can certainly try the settings that you suggest. I'm going to try to be very careful to pick the right words now as I do not want you to think that I am not appreciative of all of your attempts to help me please understand that, I do not want to be labeled as a problem member on the forum. 

When I am trying to do my best work, which was not in my mind when I shot the first set of photos for the forum, those were what I just think of as snap shots to demonstrate a procedure that I am trying to perfect in the shop I never dreamed that the photo quality was going to be so closely examined and responded to.

When I am trying to take photos for printing and framing. I first take into consideration whether or not my subject is moving such as in a sporting event or if it is not moving at all such as a landscape photo. My preference setting is Tv and I set the shutter speed according to the subject as described above. I keep the ISO as low as possible for the sake of quality. If depth of field is an issue, I may switch to Av if I am wanting a shallow depth of field. Then I rely on the histogram to tell me if the exposure is corrert which I find to be very reliable if understood. White balance is normally inot an issue unless I have no choice and am shooting under florescent light, they play havoc with color for me and the White Balance drill must be performed. Of course a tripod must be used whenever possible. I use fast lens for low light shooting when the subject is moving such as in a sportingevent and as you know, such lens cost a lot of money but they are worth it if you want to take good photos in low llight where the shutter speed has to be kept fast.

I suspect that you know all about such things. Just want you to know that I find photography to be an extremely interesting subject, I am not a professional and do not pretend to be one, I just like the mechanice of the subject. In hind sight I wish that I had taken the time to do better work for the foum photos. I never know what the settings of another's computer is going to be that look at my photos. Consequently, since those first photos looked fine on my computer screen, I just posted them and as I say, I was surprised that I got the posts that they were hard for others to see and to read the text. I do appreciate all of the suggestion to help me. Hope this post is taken in the context that it is meant to be. I do apologize for all of the turmoil that my threads and/or posts have caused on the forum and will try my best to be more considerate of other members feelings in the future.

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I say bring back the Brownie box camera, a little sunshine and a perfect picture every time!

Sometimes a shot is best taken out of doors, like this one. A final comment, it really is possible to become too technical and end up with inferior results, I prefer to make use of the skills of the people who designed the "auto" setting on my camera!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

harrysin said:


> I say bring back the Brownie box camera, a little sunshine and a perfect picture every time!
> 
> Sometimes a shot is best taken out of doors, like this one. A final comment, it really is possible to become too technical and end up with inferior results, I prefer to make use of the skills of the people who designed the "auto" setting on my camera!


You can be right there, Harry.

My first camera was a very cheapie from Coles in 1962? Plastic body and plastic lens. Bought it second hand from a boy who bought it the way to camp (Camp Mackay - Police Boys Club), and ran out of money before camp ended. Took 120 film from memory.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Jerry.

Firstly, I doubt that anyone regards you as as a problem member on the forum.

I certainly do not.

In this context, I am only talking about snapshots for posting on the forum.

It is only that you and I are on opposite poles in some respect.

You strive for perfection in the most minute detail whereas I am happy to accept "good enough" if no lives depend on it... Helps to lead a happy, relaxed life.

I, too can be most pedantic over some matters.

Just not a simple thing like posting a picture on the forum.

I was only showing you that there may be other, simple ways to achieve that goal.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> You can be right there, Harry.
> 
> My first camera was a very cheapie from Coles in 1962? Plastic body and plastic lens. Bought it second hand from a boy who bought it the way to camp (Camp Mackay - Police Boys Club), and ran out of money before camp ended. Took 120 film from memory.


I still remember the competition between Kodak and Ilford, 120 against 620, both with identical frame size but the slot in the end of the spools were different and so not interchangeable. Happy days they were, mind you they still are for me, possibly because I don't worry about minute unimportant details and the pleasure that I get from passing on my life's experiences.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> I still remember the competition between Kodak and Ilford, 120 against 620, both with identical frame size but the slot in the end of the spools were different and so not interchangeable. Happy days they were, mind you they still are for me, possibly because I don't worry about minute unimportant details and the pleasure that I get from passing on my life's experiences.


Harry,
And in so doing your bring much pleasure to the table for the members of this forum, certainly to me, that does not, as we have discussed, does not mean that well agree on everthing, but the pleasure of sharing is not detoured by our different opinions about matters. Being able to share as we do via this forum is certainly great and the effforts made by those responsible for the existence of the forum are very much appreciated too.

Jsmes, as I have often said before, my expectation far exceed my skills in what I do. The nitty gritty pursuit of perfection does not take away from my enjoyment, I thrive on it and must admit that is just the way I'm wired. Doesn't make me good or bad, just the way things are.

Harry, as soon as it gets warm enough, I'll be in the shop trying my best to prove you wrong about my jig not ever going to work, gosh I hate for you to be right and for me to be wrong about it, right now, you are right, and I'm really being challenged to prove you wrong you old rascal, that should contribute to your satisfactlon as you sit in the sun enjoying your beer and thinking about what I'm doing here in Texas.

Jerry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Harry,
> And in so doing your bring much pleasure to the table for the members of this forum, certainly to me, that does not, as we have discussed, does not mean that well agree on everthing, but the pleasure of sharing is not detoured by our different opinions about matters. Being able to share as we do via this forum is certainly great and the effforts made by those responsible for the existence of the forum are very much appreciated too.
> 
> Jsmes, as I have often said before, my expectation far exceed my skills in what I do. The nitty gritty pursuit of perfection does not take away from my enjoyment, I thrive on it and must admit that is just the way I'm wired. Doesn't make me good or bad, just the way things are.
> ...


Jerry, I've never doubted that your jig will work, only that it has to be "fiddled" with and test holes drilled each time it's set up. To my mind a jig should be capable of assisting in the accurate production of whatever it's intended to do with the minimum of setting up. I'm sure that the simple hinge jig that I came up with has been produced in the past, there doesn't appear to be anything new in this world,just improvements on existing ideas, but, mine and many others no doubt are quick to use and very simple with no or minimum setting up required. If you prove me wrong Jerry I shall not apologize privately by email but publicly on this forum, I'm not above apologizing when shown to be wrong, and that does happen!


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## PaulH (May 30, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Harry says that the photos are to small and to dark for the forum, they look fine to me, do the rest of you folks have problems seeing the photos?
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry,
Just stumbled across your entry while looking for ideas for universal hinge jig. Still looking. But in terms of your post and the critique you got from Harry. I thought the whole idea was sharing, which you have done. And thank you. We're into wood not photography. Perhaps hary is wanting to slurp images to use elsewhere and make money. Hence he requires images of some particular resolution for his purposes.
Cheers
Paul


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