# Oak Park vs Bench Dog



## phone_63 (Dec 31, 2009)

Which in your view is better? I like the oak Park which has a bigger table top,but, doesn't have any t tracks for a miter guage etc. and don't like the fence which isn't in a track and has to be clamped down. The Bench Dog has a aluminum fence vs a plastic on the OP. Is there any one who has one of these and how do you like it


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

The OP is Phenolic, not plastic. Their plates are sturdy. I've have my OP table going several yrs now. No issues at all.  IMHO, the OP doesn't need those "T" tracks. It does have a miter gauge, which is a very handy accessory. I wouldn't or ever will get rid of my OP. It does everything that those that have all the bells an whistles do. Because it follows one concept. K.I.S.S. rule. 

I can't answer for the Bench Dog, I don't have one.


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## phone_63 (Dec 31, 2009)

thanks for your opinion, after doing more research I am leaning to buying the OP..


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Greg,

Keep your eyes on this thread... many here have the OP and love 'em.


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## okanagan (Dec 18, 2009)

Is Oak Park a Sponsor here?
Would be nice to buy from a sponsor??


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

okanagan said:


> Is Oak Park a Sponsor here?
> Would be nice to buy from a sponsor??


Oak Park is pretty much "THE" sponsor. And their products work, right out of the box.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

They are the sponsor and it's also the router table you see on "The Router Workshop", so if you like / watch their videos, your setup would be identical to theirs. With over 180 episodes, they've got video of doing things with a router I'd never dreamed of.!


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

Not all owners love them.
I own one. My wife purchased it for me (Christmas present) of course from my suggestion -- gathered from this forum --

After offering complaints on this forum -- I was duly chastised. You were wise to point out sponsorship.

On the negative side
1. If you buy the plate you should know the the plate does not ride flush to the table. O.P. says that is a feature so the wood will not catch on the outfeed side. but that only give a few inches of support (half the plate) to support long boards -- if the plate was flush then there would not be a catch.

2. You will be stuck with OP accessories or make your own to fit.

3. Cost is rather steep for the product. especially what it is made out of.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Positive: easy to put together. and in reference to my other thread -- still have my pants on my old body...


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I have had only very good experiences with my OP table. Wouldn't trade it for anything.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Why not buy a plate and make the rest, or a plate and a top. The cabinet is just a set of flat panels. In the U.K. we have very little choice of router table product. What there is can be very expensive, generally folded steel plate. I have always made my own. Am I satisfied, generally, then I make improvements on the next one. My latest two cause me no problems. A couple of pics of the small benchtop table.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244/wingate_52/Router table/PICT0182.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244/wingate_52/Router table/PICT0183.jpg


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

Mike,

If your router tables are as functional as they look you have a real winner..

Thanks for posting your work.. makes me jealous. :thank_you2:


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks for that. Form follows function. If it can look nice, even better. I cannot understand why more people do mot make their own kit. If we can make furniture we can make a router table top surely. I have my own work benches, I know I did not make the vices, but..We make jigs and all sorts of things. A table and fence are not beyond most. A router, jig saw and some handtools are all it takes.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Mike,
To overstate the obvious not everyone can make furniture, many people don't have extensive backgrounds in woodworking when they begin tinkering with handheld routing and tables.

Excluding those that have backgrounds but would rather have store bought anyway, many don't have the basic concepts of construction, those that do may not know how to achieve the results they know to be true. 

Called the learning curve which starts with baby steps.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Being a teacher, I sometimes think kids are thick. I thought that they grew out of itthough. I have just read a thread on a U.K. forum where a chaps bits fell out of his collet. Life can be hard and dangerous.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Truth!
In defense to others, my father, (a top marine mechanic) expected me to know things because he did. The kind of man who could listen to an engine and know what was wrong, very smart and couldn't tolerate ignorance.

Hear it once remember it for life, which more often than not I didn't. Groking knew terminology and spatial relationships of mechanics took some effort mostly because I didn't care much for it even though I enjoyed making things work.

What is ABC to you and me within our respective trades had to be learned and has to be taught and to be retained must be learned by those that care and enjoy the power of knowledge.

Apparently there was only one born to be a carpenter.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Ghidrah said:


> What is ABC to you and me within our respective trades had to be learned and has to be taught and to be retained must be learned by those that care and enjoy the power of knowledge.


Ron, very well said.


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

Learning modalities are well described and substantial support by research.

Mike has a very valid assumption -- woodworking is doing -- so some learn by doing... some are just tool collectors and not doers...


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

It is said that you learn by your mistakes. Woodworkers mistakes become firewood, a doctors mistake...


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

gallianp said:


> On the negative side
> 1. If you buy the plate you should know the the plate does not ride flush to the table. O.P. says that is a feature so the wood will not catch on the outfeed side.


This makes absolutely no sense to me. A feature? How could the wood catch on the outfeed side if the plate is perfectly flush?? Sounds like BS to me.
Why would anyone buy a plate that didn't have leveling screws?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

ohhhhhhhhhhhh boy.....


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

jmg1017 said:


> This makes absolutely no sense to me. A feature? How could the wood catch on the outfeed side if the plate is perfectly flush?? Sounds like BS to me.
> Why would anyone buy a plate that didn't have leveling screws?



Hi Joe,

What is NOT mentioned is about plates that will sag or are slightly warped. Do some serious searching, you'll discover that. You don't have this issue with the OP table and plates. They also don't use nor need leveling screws. Again, there have been many threads about other plates doing just that. Some are by design and, a few members have had difficulty with them. 



I would like to comment on the "support issue". I'm NOT chastising, just noting from experience with the table. You should use another bench or support rollers same height as your table, thus, you'll still have support for long pieces. Bob R. even mentions this several times in their shows, "for long pieces use a workbench or other support equal to the height of your table". (This is NOT meant specifically to the OP table). Look at this way, how many have an out-feed table system setup on their table saw?


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> What is NOT mentioned is about plates that will sag or are slightly warped. Do some serious searching, you'll discover that. You don't have this issue with the OP table and plates. They also don't use nor need leveling screws.


I must be missing something here....unless each plate is machined to match the top it will sit on, how could you NOT need leveling screws? There has to be small fractional differences in plate thicknesses and table recess depths. How are those differences accounted for?


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Personally I think OP plates being slightly higher is more of problem solver for mass manufacturing processes to avoid hand machining each recess to flush up each plate, while avoiding the need for the extra cost of leveling screws and machining them into the plates. 
I'm not saying it isn't a quality product, just that they may have found an ingenuitive work around to save time and money. 


I would prefer to buy an aluminum plate and either rework a preexisting MDF top to fit or make one my self. Then you could fine tune it to your specific tastes and needs. If you want it flush you can make it flush, If you want leveling screws you can have leveling screws, if you want it slightly above table you can have that too. 
Functionality ( in my mind ) is speculative in this area. What works well for one may not another sort of thing.

That being said you could easily rework the OP top to your own tastes as well by simply milling down the rabbit to flush up the plate with or with out screws.
But then you run in to price point versus expectation. What are you expecting at a certain price point ? Do your research before you buy and you stand a better chance of getting what you want at the price point you want.


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

OP table/plate is not what I thought I was getting! The TV show and people suggestions from this forum made my brain go dead -- I know better and have no-one to blame but my poor judgement. I was just trying to let others know what to expect before buying.

The only place that I found where the un-level plate position while putting it together was--> paper that appeared to be " make your own table plans." it has nothing to do with my construction.

This is a copy of the email answer from OP customer service.

The base plate is designed to sit in the table top slightly higher then the top. The reason for this is that you always start routing with your material on the base plate and you want to make sure that it will not get caught on the edge of the router table top as you complete your cut. The difference in the height will not have any effect on the finished cut.

Regards,

Wendy
Oak Park
Cusotmer Service

Notice the grammar mistake "then the top" should be "than the top" picky I know......


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

gallianp said:


> The base plate is designed to sit in the table top slightly higher then the top. The reason for this is that you always start routing with your material on the base plate and you want to make sure that it will not get caught on the edge of the router table top as you complete your cut. The difference in the height will not have any effect on the finished cut.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> ...


I've got a problem with this statement. All cuts do NOT necessarily start with the material on the plate. Can't understand why anyone would assume that. Sounds like a rationalization for a less than optimal design. Besides, if I'm routing a long piece and the plate is slightly elevated, isn't the workpiece entering the cutter at an angle?
The plate needs to be perfectly flush with the table. My $.02.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Paul I know your upset but you seem to be wandering into the realm of defaming now.
It doesn't suite you very well friend, or any one for that matter. Especially when your defaming some one for something you just did your self in a post pointing out their grammatical errors.


> it nothing to do with my construction.


Should read " It has ". 

Generally, when we try to make some one else look bad the only one we truly make look bad is our selves.

We all understand your frustration, but defaming a sponsor to a forum you are a member of will get you no where fast. Especially in your case. You are defaming a manufacturer of a product you are trying to work out a problem with who is a sponsor to the forum you defaming them on. 
You are only shooting your self in the foot friend. You catch more flies with honey then you do vinegar.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> What is NOT mentioned is about plates that will sag or are slightly warped. Do some serious searching, you'll discover that. You don't have this issue with the OP table and plates. They also don't use nor need leveling screws. Again, there have been many threads about other plates doing just that. Some are by design and, a few members have had difficulty with them.
> 
> ...


I think the problem being addressed is the angle the work piece is introduced to the bit at caused by the plate sitting higher then the table. If the stock you are starting into the cut with is longer then roughly half the length of the plate then you are inevitably going to be starting at an angle and not flush to the bit through and through.
If you start at an angle, then press down on the plate to follow through with the cut at the bit like you are supposed to, to create an even cut, you will end up with an angle on entry and one on exit. 
How great of an angle ? I have no idea because I have never owned an OP table nor seen the problem being addressed personally.
Just my $ 0.02 .


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

jmg1017 said:


> I've got a problem with this statement. All cuts do NOT necessarily start with the material on the plate. Can't understand why anyone would assume that. Sounds like a rationalization for a less than optimal design. Besides, if I'm routing a long piece and the plate is slightly elevated, isn't the workpiece entering the cutter at an angle?
> The plate needs to be perfectly flush with the table. My $.02.


No. If you put downward pressure and pressure towards the fence, the material will be FLAT on the plate. This is where feather boards, come into play. I hate to disagree with you about the cuts not necessarily starting on the plate because it does. Again, the use of feather boards will keep the material in place.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Ken,
Read my post above yours and tell me what kind of sense that makes to you.


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

Dear All,

I pointed out the "THEN vs THAN" not Mark. I am not "defaming" anyone! and my name is Paul.
I think people that are looking to purchase -- need to have more knowledge than I did before they forked out $$$$. Flame me if you wish.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

The height of the plate is only noticeable by using your fingernail to catch the edge. If you get down eye level with the table top and look at the plate, you can just barely see how much it sticks up. NOT ENOUGH to effect any work being done. If you sit your workpiece down on the plate, doesn't matter if it's not truly touching the table, the work is being done at the bit, no where else. So long as your material stays flat on the plate, (which it should for any plate), there aren't any issues with the "cut" being made. In retrospect, there is NO angle being introduced to the bit. Unless of course you're lifting it up off of the plate. Again, please note, I said, workpiece flat on the plate. For long pieces that need support, again, another work-bence or support rollers, something that is equal to the height of the table works just fine. The problem is, people don't truly see or understand the reasoning as to why the plate sticks up. It's designed that way, not a flaw. As stated in a previous reply, it prevents the workpiece from catching or hanging up on the outfeed side. It doesn't matter if the plate is perfectly level with the table top or slight above, the work is being done at the bit. You still have to have the material down on the plate. 

There is, or rather, was a VHS tape that came along with the OP table. I wished that it was on a DVD. Bob R. explains and shows the purpose of the reasoning for the plate being slightly raised above the table. I have sent a request for someone with a lot more experience with the setup than I. Perhaps he will explain it better than I can. 


We are all equals here, no flaming is allowed. We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them. We just need to remain and keep this completely civilized. Remember this, what may work you may not work for someone else. :yes4:


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

This is to Ken.. This is a real question not blabber to drag the thread on..

If what you say is true do I need to have my throat plate on my table-saw flush with the table?

Why have a long flat-top on my joiner? 

If this was about what I consider to be a flaw in a NEW Ford pickup truck should I not try to tell others before they spend their $$$ on a new truck. 

I was very excited to open my Christmas present from my wife and find that I had made a major mistake in asking her to purchase this for me. I am stuck with this. I do not want to hurt her feelings because on my poor choice.

I really wish that you can/will answer my above question. I really am unhappy with the router table that I have..


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## AUFAITHFUL (Nov 30, 2009)

I have some bench dog products and believe them to be quite superior. However, like most manufacturers, once you go with one, you're somewhat forced into their other products. Case in point, I started with their aluminum plate which is approx 8.75"x11.5".
To upgrade with a lift, I'm either going with their lift, or I'm making a new top.

The way I look at these things is... Hey. I love new toys. Try the OP. Then try the Bench Dog. Head to head. Report back to this forum on likes and dislikes.

My likes are the fact that the benchdog products are built like a sherman tank. No sag. Flat as a pancake. I like there fences but also prefer other makes. If I had money to burn and needed a ready made table, there new steel top cabinet combo looks totally awesome.

There plates don't have above the table levelling screws though....... You'll either have to shim up, install below the table levelling screws, or tap the plate yourself, which isn't all that hard with a tap kit from HF. I shim up with strips of duck tape!!!

War Eagle and Happy New Year


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Now I totally get what you are saying Ken. 
I still think it is a bit shaky applying that to long stock but if its only a fingernail or less it wont matter because wood moves with humidity any way. I was under the impression it was like a 1/8th inch or something in which case you surely would feel a rocking in longer work pieces.

My Bad Paul, I corrected the name ( apologies to Mark as well, Don't know why I typed your name LOL ! ) 
You may be stuck with the table but you are not stuck with the way it is. 
You can easily mill out the rabbit a little to sink the plate then use leveling screws from the bottom up through the rabbit. ( I mean small screws nothing that would split the rabbit. In fact I would predrill 1st I think or drive in threaded inserts. ) 
You asked for it to get in to wood working right ? Look at it as both a learning experience for you ( as you are any way I am sure ) as well as hands on experience in the little bit of rework you prefer to do to flush up the plate.


The plate only has to be perpendicular to the bit because it is only cutting at the bit. 
A table saw throat plate is another animal all together. It cuts in an entirely different
manner so the same rules do not apply. The cutting area is greater. Your trying to achieve a flush cut that is square across the width or thickness of what you are cutting. With a router you're either milling a dado, routing a bead, rounding corners, and things like that, that follow a predetermined edge ( that has been cut by a table saw and squared with a jointer.) 
you can also joint with your router table. But again because the area of contact is smaller I I feel the same rules don't apply.
Just my $0.02 . I'm probably wrong.. I usually am.. but at the moment it makes sense in my head LOL !


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> The height of the plate is only noticeable by using your fingernail to catch the edge. If you get down eye level with the table top and look at the plate, you can just barely see how much it sticks up. NOT ENOUGH to effect any work being done. If you sit your workpiece down on the plate, doesn't matter if it's not truly touching the table, the work is being done at the bit, no where else. So long as your material stays flat on the plate, (which it should for any plate), there aren't any issues with the "cut" being made. In retrospect, there is NO angle being introduced to the bit. Unless of course you're lifting it up off of the plate. Again, please note, I said, workpiece flat on the plate. For long pieces that need support, again, another work-bence or support rollers, something that is equal to the height of the table works just fine. The problem is, people don't truly see or understand the reasoning as to why the plate sticks up. It's designed that way, not a flaw. As stated in a previous reply, it prevents the workpiece from catching or hanging up on the outfeed side. It doesn't matter if the plate is perfectly level with the table top or slight above, the work is being done at the bit. You still have to have the material down on the plate.


Looks like I may have posted a question in the middle of an on going debate. I apologize if my comments furthered the argument. That wasn't my intent. 
Just a last question, why are you so concerned with the workpiece hanging up on the outfeed side? Wouldn't that be solved by having the plate flush?


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

quote Duane867 "You asked for it to get in to wood working right ?"

Wrong..... got into woodworking in the 8th grade and I am 65 now. 

You do the math... :sarcastic:

This is futile -- it seems that most of you have been assimilated into the BORG. :lol: I am an OLD "Star Trek" fan -- notice the "OLD"

I am finished with this thread -- hope I have opened others eyes before they spend their $$$$


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

+1 on Ken's post. Unless you have a *monsterous* RT, the time will come when you will be routing things where more than 1/2 of it are hanging off of the table. My table is 32x50, leaving me 16" on each side of the center of the bit. My plate is leveled with the table but still, when I was routing some 8' stock there was 16" on the table and 80" overhanging the edge at the start and end of the cut. The cuts came out perfect and I'm not one of the router experts here. 

Lee Valley offers a machined steel top in which they advertise a "hand-tuned tuned" slightly convex top to ensure it never becomes concave, even with a heavy router. This is for a $190 (top only) to $510 (complete table).

Veritas® Router Table Sets - Lee Valley Tools

There are different schools of thought on RT designs, ranging from size, shape, height, router mounting, fences, miter gauges, t-tracks and yes... flat or convex tops. What is right for one may not be right for another.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

gallianp said:


> quote Duane867 "You asked for it to get in to wood working right ?"
> 
> Wrong..... got into woodworking in the 8th grade and I am 65 now.
> 
> ...


Your wrong old boy. I'm anti borg save for 7 of 9. ( SHE HAWT ! ) and my favorite Star Trek series was and always will be the series starring William Shatner as James Tiberius Kirk and Leonard Nimoy as Spock. ( George Takei is a tool )
I'm not on the band wagon with Oak Park. I don't even own any of their products. Not because they aren't up to snuff or that I have had any bad experiences with them. That's just how I personally go about things is all. 
Honey catches the critters, vinegar kills about every thing 

I didn't mean to come down on you or blast you. Was just trying to help you help your self so you could get it straightened out.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> +1 on Ken's post. Unless you have a *monsterous* RT, the time will come when you will be routing things where more than 1/2 of it are hanging off of the table. My table is 32x50, leaving me 16" on each side of the center of the bit. My plate is leveled with the table but still, when I was routing some 8' stock there was 16" on the table and 80" overhanging the edge at the start and end of the cut. The cuts came out perfect and I'm not one of the router experts here.
> 
> Lee Valley offers a machined steel top in which they advertise a "hand-tuned tuned" slightly convex top to ensure it never becomes concave, even with a heavy router. This is for a $190 (top only) to $510 (complete table).
> 
> ...


True dat' !


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