# building dust collector



## hnicewicz (May 13, 2010)

is it possible to build dust collector with dry wet vacuum cleaner


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Welcome.

I don't know about build, but mine doubles as a decent D/C for my router table. Since I'm not doing any large scale projects on it, it works fine. If I needed bigger capacity or flow than it would provide (I don't have a huge vac), then I'd look at getting a real D/C unit.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

The Dust Deputy - Video


If you don't want to spend the bucks for the cyclone, and if you have a good shopvac, I use drywall filter bags in my 20 gal, they filter out the dust and are pretty mess free when emptying.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I was thinking about adding just a 5gal bucket for chip collection, but that dust deputy is a bit pricey. I wonder if there's a DIY solution that would accomplish the same thing...besides just the bucket.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

Stop by the hardware/ HD/Lowers store and ask them if they have a chain barrel that the chain came in the norm, it's a 15gal to 25gal hvy. duty cardboard can and as quick band clamp lock metal lid.. just about any one that buys from American Chain and Cable will have one or two on hand.

Then with some sheet metal you can make the rest of it..

======



Cocheseuga said:


> I was thinking about adding just a 5gal bucket for chip collection, but that dust deputy is a bit pricey. I wonder if there's a DIY solution that would accomplish the same thing...besides just the bucket.


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## the_nite_owl (Oct 19, 2009)

hnicewicz said:


> is it possible to build dust collector with dry wet vacuum cleaner


A shop vac IS a dust collector, it is just a matter of how much suction you need, how good a filter for fine particles and how much volume for collection.

My Craftsman shop vac has a hepa filter available and should filter fine particles very well though I would like to know how small it handles.

I do have a dedicated Delta dust collector also but I keep moving stuff around so it is mainly used on my table saw and planer until I settle where everything goes in the shop.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Here ya go. Build it yourself.
The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle

I use a trash can separator with my DC. Beats having to empty the bag.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Yes, a shot vac can be used as a DC and vice-versa, as long as you understand the differences and limitations of each. A shop vac generates a lot of suction (up to 90" H2O [about 3psi] or so) at a relatively low volume (about 100 cfm) while a DC has a much lower suction (up to 10" H2O or so [0.4 psi]) with a high volume (1,000 cfm and up). The high suction is good for picking up larger, heavier pieces such as those on the floor a DC couldn't lift and the DC's large volume naturally does a better job at capturing the very small wood particles generated while doing things like sanding.

There are some companies, such as Festool, that have invested a lot of engineering in directing that suction to capture the fine dust in their sanders but, in general, a shop vac doesn't move enough air for say, a sanding table.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> Here ya go. Build it yourself.
> The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle
> 
> I use a trash can separator with my DC. Beats having to empty the bag.


Thanks for that. May have a go at building one this weekend.





I'd have a real D/C if not for two things: 1) price, and 2) size.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all

I did 2 cyclones all shop made with wash machine motors they work fine.
You can see all details at this adress 
http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Equipement_Atelier/clic.php3?url=Docs/Sante_Cyclone.pdf
It is in french, but with a lot of photos and drawing, you can understand it

Cheers
Santé


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Santé

I think I saw the same one down in the hills of _Tennessee, __used for a moonshine_ still. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox6BVxQaue4
==============



Santé said:


> Hi all
> 
> I did 2 cyclones all shop made with wash machine motors they work fine.
> You can see all details at this adress
> ...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

hnicewicz said:


> is it possible to build dust collector with dry wet vacuum cleaner


Yes!

A garbage can, cyclone cover, shop vac and an extra hose. Take a look at The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle . Now the lid is not very difficult. LeeValley sells a cyclone lid for $49.50 but that is easily replaced by Phil's. Buy Mini Dust Collection Separator at Woodcraft.com and there are several here on this forum.

In essence, the cyclone separates out the heavier dust particles and your vacuum provides the power and acts as a fine final filter. Works like a charm. I have the LeeValley version but I think it was CanukGal that created her own, nicely done too.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Mini Dust Collector Separator - Google Product Search
http://froogle.google.com/products?q=+Dust+Collector+Separator&hl=en&aq=f
http://www.harborfreight.com/dust-c...cpc&zmam=13262200&zmas=12&zmac=112&zmap=98023
=========


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> Hi all
> 
> I did 2 cyclones all shop made with wash machine motors they work fine.
> You can see all details at this adress
> ...


Magnifique.

Ca c'est du travail.

Pour moi, je n'ai pas de place pour une installation comme ca. Pour moi, c'est seulement une petite couverte cyclone qui me sers. J'ai une idee que je me ferai une petite comme dans les photos audessus. Avez vous les suggestions?

Magnificent. That's some work.

For me, I do not have space for an installation like that. For me, it is only a little cyclone lid that serves. I have an idea that I will make a small one like in the photos above. Do you have any suggestions?

CanukGal: Deb, when you were making your's. Did you consider a smaller design? I'm thinking the 5 gal bucket instead of the 20 gal garbage can. When dealing with air flow, size has a lot to do with it. I'm wondering if it is feasible to make a small one? The Rockler one looks interesting but for the sake of a small piece of plywood, it's not worth the bother of attempting to import something. Comments?

Ron


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Ron, I'm thinking about picking one up this afternoon if you'd like a review.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Thanks Ron for your apreciate

Daniel


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> Ron, I'm thinking about picking one up this afternoon if you'd like a review.


Yes please and a couple of pictures of the underside if possible.

Thanks Chris


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi Ron
It is a more little on the same site at this adress:
http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Equipement_Atelier/clic.php3?url=Docs/Eric38_Aspirateur_Cyclonique.pdf

Cheers
Daniel


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> Hi Ron
> It is a more little on the same site at this adress:
> http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Equipement_Atelier/clic.php3?url=Docs/Eric38_Aspirateur_Cyclonique.pdf
> 
> ...


Hi Santé:

Ok, voici la probleme. La poussiere est ramassez par la movement de l'air a une vitesse. Aussi longue que l'air bouge a cette vitesse, la poussiere bouge aussi. Ralentez la vitesse de l'air et le poussiere tombe de l'air. Je comprends bien comment le cyclone d'une couverte fonctionne. Mais je ne comprends pas pourquoi un entonnoir fonctionne mieux qu'un cylindre. L'entonnoir cause beaucoup de turbulence qui ne laisse pas la poussiere tombe de la colonne de l'air. Est-ce que c'est comprenable?

J'ai eu une probleme similaire avec le dessin de Canukgal. C'etait bien pensee et fabrique mais je ne peut pas comprends le besoin de faire spirale l'aire quand on a besoin d'un changement de vitesse seulement.

Ok, here's the problem. The dust is picked up by the movement of the air at a given speed. As long as the air moves at that speed, the dust moves too. Slow down the speed of the air and the dust falls out. I understand how the cyclone cover functions. But, I don't understand how a funnel works better than a cylinder. The funnel will cause a lot of turbulence that won't let the dust fall from the air column. Do I make sense with this?

I had a similar problem with Canukgal's design. It was very well thought out and implemented but I can't get my head around the necessity to spiral the air when all you want is a speed differential.

Deb, this is in no way critical of you or your efforts. It is a failing on my part to understand something and I'm trying to understand.

Phil Thein is one of the few that have actually experimented and examined dust collection on a small scale. My father made a huge dust precipitating funnel for a scientific installation and he couldn't understand the reason for the funnel either. The effect of the dust falling in a spiral was mesmerizing but they still had to have filters in the airstream to catch the fines and they weren't always fine.

This goes back as much as 50 years for me so pardon me if this seems a bit "over the top." The net effect will be a more effective dust collector for all, I hope.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Ron:

I'm no aerodynamics engineer, but I *suspect* the following:

1. The funnel acts as a funnel, collecting the dust into a smaller orifice to the collection bin.

2. Would the airflow near the bottom of a cylinder be considerably slower than in a funnel? This would allow the dust to settle around the edge of the bottom of the cylinder, not in the collection bin.

3. Does one want the airflow to slow down before the dust is removed from the separator? Would not the airflow at the bottom of a funnel separator be faster than the bottom of the cylindrical separator?

A video on YouTube (YouTube - Cyclone Dust Collector by TomL) shows that the angle of dust flow becomes more horizontal as the dust flows down the funnel. This is indicative that dust flow is being kept high, even though the total airflow would have dropped in velocity.

Agreed on Phil Thien is one of the few. In his design, his separator is very short in height, being the distance between the top and the baffle. In this design, there is no opportunity for airflow to drop before hitting the bottom of the separator.

I'm no aerodynamics engineer and can only *guess* at why the funnel *might* work better.

Cassandra


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Ron:


Oops, please accept my apologies. I have a short memory and it usually ends five seconds ago. However, five years from now I'll probably remember every detail :-(



> I'm no aerodynamics engineer, but I *suspect* the following:


I'm sorry that was _not_ my intention. I have to rebuild my dust collection so I've been looking at this from industrial to home brew and I'm getting more confused by the day.

It is amazing how something so simple can be so complicated. I have seen a spiral similar to your's on factory systems but even the manufacturers cannot explain how it works and is it better than some other system.



> 1. The funnel acts as a funnel, collecting the dust into a smaller orifice to the collection bin.


That's what's confusing me. Dust is retained in the air stream by the velocity of the air. Slow the air down and the dust falls out. Put it into a funnel and the velocity remains all the way to the bottom and into the collector below.

Put other obstructions in the way of the airstream, creates turbulence, increases the velocity of the airstream thus the dust doesn't fall out and requires after filters.



> 2. Would the airflow near the bottom of a cylinder be considerably slower than in a funnel? This would allow the dust to settle around the edge of the bottom of the cylinder, not in the collection bin.


Interesting point. So, if I read you correctly, the function of the funnel has nothing to do with the dust collection per sé but a method of removing the collected materials. Now, that' clearer. Ok, does the funnel aid or defeat removing fines from the dust stream?



> 3. Does one want the airflow to slow down before the dust is removed from the separator?


Yes. The dust is held in the airstream by the velocity of the air. Kind of like leaves in the wind. The faster the wind, the farther the leaf goes. Look where the leaves collect in the fall. It is where the air is slowed down. Around trees, on the leeward side of the house, etc.



> Would not the airflow at the bottom of a funnel separator be faster than the bottom of the cylindrical separator?


Yes, that's where I'm having the problem.



> A video on YouTube (YouTube - Cyclone Dust Collector by TomL) shows that the angle of dust flow becomes more horizontal as the dust flows down the funnel. This is indicative that dust flow is being kept high, even though the total airflow would have dropped in velocity.


I'm wondering if the airflow at the bottom of the funnel is actually that much slower than at the top? For me, my negative airflow is at the top of the cylinder so with a funnel fines would remain suspended and pulled up by the negative airflow out the top. With the cylinder, the fines have a greater chance to fall to the bottom of the cylinder.



> Agreed on Phil Thien is one of the few. In his design, his separator is very short in height, being the distance between the top and the baffle. In this design, there is no opportunity for airflow to drop before hitting the bottom of the separator.


I'm thinking that the airflow drop happens as soon as it enters the "upper chamber" and drops the dust as soon as it enters the chamber.



> I'm no aerodynamics engineer and can only *guess* at why the funnel *might* work better.


Whether you are or not is not important. What is important is that you took substantial time and effort to research and develop your own. You also had the intestinal fortitude to present it to the forum community. To commit that much time and energy into something you must have felt it worth while. And, I hope, duly proud of your accomplishment.

My objective is to find out if you're satisfied with your concept and should I copy it or try something else. In short, I need an unbiased report on your efforts. Are you satisfied? Do you recommend it to others? How would you compare your results to Phil's? Do you feel that there is a difference when put behind a dust collection system as compared to a shop vac? Are your filters full of fines?

Cassandra, I'm sorry if this seems too pressing. It is not meant to be so. I'm trying to find "the best" situation for my small shop. I don't have space for hard plumbed system and I have to move soon so I'm stuck with what will work with my shop vac. My current LeeValley cyclone lid is too big and clumsy so I have to do something. I don't have time to construct a complex "solution." However, I also notice that there are many others with the same general question. "What works best?"

Thank you for your input and your help. It is much appreciated. I also apologize if this seems somewhat repeated from an earlier post but I couldn't find it.

Ron


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all
For that the chips are pressed against the cylinder wall, the air must have a speed of + / - 27m / s. When it goes down, it loses speed and chips may be released from the centrifugal force. Reducing gradually the diameter will kept the chips against the wall until they fall into the dustbin.
Is that understanding for you ?

Cheers
Daniel


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

allthunbs said:


> Oops, please accept my apologies. I have a short memory and it usually ends five seconds ago. However, five years from now I'll probably remember every detail :-(


 Apologies? For what? I have not taken any offence at anything you have said. Like you, my memory is also short-lived.



allthunbs said:


> It is amazing how something so simple can be so complicated. I have seen a spiral similar to your's on factory systems but even the manufacturers cannot explain how it works and is it better than some other system.


 Wow! Manufacturers are in the dark like me? (Warm fuzzy feeling.)



allthunbs said:


> That's what's confusing me. Dust is retained in the air stream by the velocity of the air. Slow the air down and the dust falls out. Put it into a funnel and the velocity remains all the way to the bottom and into the collector below.
> 
> Put other obstructions in the way of the airstream, creates turbulence, increases the velocity of the airstream thus the dust doesn't fall out and requires after filters.
> 
> ...


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hey Ron:

Daniel got in while I was typing my response to you. It appears we have someone who can explain the physics better than I can.

Daniel: Merci beaucoup!

Cassandra


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

YouTube - How a Cyclonic Dust Collector Works
YouTube - DIY cyclone dust collector

Like they say a picture is worth a 1000 words and a video is like 10,000 words.. 
===========


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> Hi all
> For that the chips are pressed against the cylinder wall, the air must have a speed of + / - 27m / s. When it goes down, it loses speed and chips may be released from the centrifugal force. Reducing gradually the diameter will kept the chips against the wall until they fall into the dustbin.
> Is that understanding for you ?
> 
> ...


Oui, ca fonctionne. Plusieurs des questionnes avec le fil en bas, avec Cassandra.

Yes, that works. More questions with the thread below with Cassandra.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Brilliant thread ! Thanks for posting your design Daniel. You have brought some useful skills to the forum. I'm impressed that you mastered AutoCAD. I've never had the patience and still use a Rotring drawing board for the odd occasion that I need to draw something.

For European members, both Lidl and Obi have been selling an intermediate drum for use with a Shopvac type vacuum cleaner for about Eur20. It is marketed as being suitable for vacuuming up hot ashes from a fireplace, but is actually the same thing as the simple cyclone drum. The hot ashes remain in the intermediate metal drum, rather than entering the vacuum cleaner.

I actually use a Triton one which came with my Triton Workstation.

Cheers

Peter


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Neat! Now we're getting somewhere.



Cassandra said:


> Wow! Manufacturers are in the dark like me? (Warm fuzzy feeling.)


I called a sheet metal shop in your neck of the woods (my father used to work there) and spoke with their in-house engineer. It seams that someone back in the 1960s created the designs they sell and noone has reviewed them since, hence they can't explain it either. They say "it works." That's all they'll say.



> allthunbs said:
> 
> 
> > That's what's confusing me. Dust is retained in the air stream by the velocity of the air. Slow the air down and the dust falls out. Put it into a funnel and the velocity remains all the way to the bottom and into the collector below.
> ...


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Ron:

You might want to have a look at the YouTube video at YouTube - New cyclone dust separator for my DIY CNC

In it the user uses a cylinder separator in place of the funnel. Don't know how well it works, but worth having a look at.

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

allthunbs said:


> This is comical. I read a paragraph of yours and write a response. I go to the next paragraph and what I wrote, you'd already written. I go back and delete what I wrote ;-)
> 
> MDF is always going to be a problem.
> 
> ...


Great minds think alike, yes? And you're very welcome!

Cassandra


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Ron:
> 
> You might want to have a look at the YouTube video at YouTube - New cyclone dust separator for my DIY CNC
> 
> ...


Yup, very interesting. I would think that the fines would be pushed out the exhaust since the velocity is too high to allow them to escape. But I notice how the "heavies" are kept against the cylinder wall.

Gotta run, dishes.

Ron


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Cassandra said:


> Hey Ron:
> 
> Daniel got in while I was typing my response to you. It appears we have someone who can explain the physics better than I can.
> 
> ...


It is a joke I think:sarcastic:

Daniel


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Santé said:


> It is a joke I think:sarcastic:
> 
> Daniel


la difference entre un amateur et un professional c'est que le professional doit le faire mais l'amateur aim le faire. Lequelle croyez-vous.

The difference between an amateur and a professional is that the professional must do it but the amateur likes to do it. Which would you believe?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cassandra said:


> Great minds think alike, yes?


Ho boi, look out world :!)


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Cassandra said:


> Great minds think alike, yes?


I'm not so sure about that. After 42 years of wonderful wedded bliss:sad:, my Wife and I think alike at times. :laugh:


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I picked up that Rockler unit yesterday but have only had minor time to play with it. Hope I can get some MDF routed tomorrow with some pics.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> I picked up that Rockler unit yesterday but have only had minor time to play with it. Hope I can get some MDF routed tomorrow with some pics.


Excellent. We look forward to it.


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

istracpsboss said:


> For European members, both Lidl and Obi have been selling an intermediate drum for use with a Shopvac type vacuum cleaner for about Eur20. It is marketed as being suitable for vacuuming up hot ashes from a fireplace, but is actually the same thing as the simple cyclone drum. The hot ashes remain in the intermediate metal drum, rather than entering the vacuum cleaner.
> 
> I actually use a Triton one which came with my Triton Workstation.
> 
> ...


I've been looking for this but have been unable to find it, do you have more details?


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Titus A Duxass said:


> I've been looking for this but have been unable to find it, do you have more details?


Hi
At this adress you can see an other one but it is +/- the same
Brico.be - Bidon vide-cendres

Cheers
Santé


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

Merci, I'll have to wander down to my local OBI and take a look.


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## Avery (May 13, 2010)

Just came across this thread and it's something I've been wondering about - because of the health issues and the purchase expense. As I understand it, one of the reasons that the shop vacs generate greater suction is the hose diameter. I could be wrong, and it might burn out the motor, but if the hose diameter is increased, or alternatively, multiple outlets are created, it might be possible to more closely approximate the properties of the DC.


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## irexx (Apr 8, 2010)

i saw at home depot a interm dust collector that uses a 5 gal plastic bucket for 19.95 and can be used in conjuction with a regular shop vac. not sure if it would do the job you what but for the price it might be a way to go. good luck with your dust problem. i have a similar problem with the dust in the form of a wife that dont like a mess and cutting wood allways does that. o well


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

irexx said:


> i saw at home depot a interm dust collector that uses a 5 gal plastic bucket for 19.95 and can be used in conjuction with a regular shop vac. not sure if it would do the job you what but for the price it might be a way to go. good luck with your dust problem. i have a similar problem with the dust in the form of a wife that dont like a mess and cutting wood allways does that. o well


Hi Dick - I haven't seen anything like that at my local HD. I did get a seperator lid from Peachtree for about twenty bucks that works fair. Looks like it'll cut my vac bag usage about half. 
I did see a little vac motor at HD that turns a 5 gal bucket into a small shopvac. I was looking at those for the bandsaw and drill press which aren't connected to my shop vac.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Avery said:


> Just came across this thread and it's something I've been wondering about - because of the health issues and the purchase expense. As I understand it, one of the reasons that the shop vacs generate greater suction is the hose diameter. I could be wrong, and it might burn out the motor, but if the hose diameter is increased, or alternatively, multiple outlets are created, it might be possible to more closely approximate the properties of the DC.


Hi Avery:

The hose diameter is not *the* determining factor for suction power. I believe (those who know can correct me) that the suction factor is based on the motor HP rating, speed (RPM), and the blower configuration. There is a trade-off between suction power (inches) and air speed (CFM.)

Cassandra


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Avery said:


> Just came across this thread and it's something I've been wondering about - because of the health issues and the purchase expense. As I understand it, one of the reasons that the shop vacs generate greater suction is the hose diameter. I could be wrong, and it might burn out the motor, but if the hose diameter is increased, or alternatively, multiple outlets are created, it might be possible to more closely approximate the properties of the DC.


Hi Avery: book report due soon. (just like school :-( One of our members picked one up last week and is playing with it now.

However, I have the LeeValley Tools cyclone lid and it works well. This makes my dust collection a two stage affair. The first stage (the lid with a garbage can under it) collects most of the material except the lightest particles. I have a drywall dust bag in my vacuum so I have a three stage filtering. The filter in the vacuum collects the rest of it. I have been using the same bag for most of the past year (part of which I spent in hospital) and I'm on the same filter (it looks brand new.)

However, I find my LeeValley too cumbersome in my small shop so I'm awaiting results for the smaller one as well.

However, you must also visit Phil Thein's site:

j. phil thien projects

He is one of the few that has done experiments and research into small dust collectors.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

irexx said:


> i saw at home depot a interm dust collector that uses a 5 gal plastic bucket for 19.95 and can be used in conjuction with a regular shop vac. not sure if it would do the job you what but for the price it might be a way to go. good luck with your dust problem. i have a similar problem with the dust in the form of a wife that dont like a mess and cutting wood allways does that. o well


Just stop using the dining room table. Move to the kid's room instead |;-)


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Avery:
> 
> The hose diameter is not *the* determining factor for suction power. I believe (those who know can correct me) that the suction factor is based on the motor HP rating, speed (RPM), and the blower configuration. There is a trade-off between suction power (inches) and air speed (CFM.)
> 
> Cassandra


I've added that to the notes. Thanks Cassandra.


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## Avery (May 13, 2010)

Thanks Ron,
Phil's solution looks reasonable and doable. It's actually analogous to our home vacuum cleaner (Samsung) which has a reservoir on the wand to catch most of the debris so that it never makes it to the body of the machine.
It's also a good location in my (very) cramped shop.
Avery


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Avery said:


> Just came across this thread and it's something I've been wondering about - because of the health issues and the purchase expense. As I understand it, one of the reasons that the shop vacs generate greater suction is the hose diameter. I could be wrong, and it might burn out the motor, but if the hose diameter is increased, or alternatively, multiple outlets are created, it might be possible to more closely approximate the properties of the DC.


in a DC cyclone type, what is important is the air flow speed for a good centifugation. Greater is the diameter hose, smaller is the speed and lesser is the centrifugation.
What say Cassandra is right . 
In one of my cyclones, I reduced the diameter hose just at the input of the cylinder to increase the speed flow.

Cheers
Santé


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I had a bunch of pics and it was a long reply, so see here for my impressions of the Rockler unit:

Rockler Small Dust Collection Separator Review


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> I had a bunch of pics and it was a long reply, so see here for my impressions of the Rockler unit:
> 
> Rockler Small Dust Collection Separator Review


Excellent, thank you Chris.

A mandatory read if you're looking for a small dust collector. If you're referring to this thread several months down the road, you must read Chris' review before embarking on a shopping spree.

I've pulled several threads together here: Index of Dust Collection Solutions


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## BOOMER52 (Jun 4, 2011)

*$8 Home Depot Dust Cyclone...*

It's been over a year since the last post to this thread... but I thought I'd bump it and once I get my 10 posts I'll post details about my $8 Home Depot duct cyclone that I built for my shop vac dust collection system. It is fairly simple to construct and has performed beyond expectation!

Even though I used my CNC router to make mine... anyone having a basic wood shop is capable of this project.

BOOMER52


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## BOOMER52 (Jun 4, 2011)

This cyclone build is based on this... DIY Cyclone Dust Collector -http://lumberjocks.com/SimonSKL/blog/10097 ... which looked to be simple enough and inexpensive...which I really like! After reading the above link I ran down to Home Depot and picked up a section of 8" of galvanized round duct and followed the directions. I'm not crazy about the way they attach the inlet pipe... it looked like a weak point so I needed to figure out a way to provide more support. 

I worked out the details for a strong support for the inlet pipe. The cantilevered inlet pipe fixed to the thin cone wall just wasn't elegant nor sufficiently supportive. I went a little hi-brow with my solution (used Aspire software and my CNC machine) but it doesn't need to be anything fancy.

I had so many neighbors stop by and ask what the heck I was working on that I decided to V-carve the response into the MDF inlet pipe top support plate. Of course once I had carved SAWDUST CYCLONE and installed the plate for all to see and read... no one else happened by... figures...!

Finishing off the Home Depot 8" round duct cyclone required the design of a cone support system... I went with a cradle that will eventually bolt to the lid of a 5 gal bucket. I drew the cradle up (once again in Aspire) and cut it out. I used RTV silicone to secure and seal the top and inlet pipe to the cone. All I had was black... it would look a bit better if I had clear.


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## BOOMER52 (Jun 4, 2011)

My cyclone performs exceptionally well... although I do not have evidence of proof... I believe it does as well as the commercial Dust Deputy.

I ran a test of my most vexing dust collection problem... MDF flour! When I looked in the 5 gal bucket... sure enough there was some flour... but I didn't know if this light material would be totally captured by the cyclonic force. Once I examined the shop vac canister which I had washed out prior to the test... I was totally amazed. Nothing got by the cyclone. Complete success! 

I've had the cyclone hooked to my CNC router for almost a year now and I have not had to clean the shop vac OR filter once...!!! AND I almost exclusively route MDF...!!!

Making your own cyclone is not for everyone... but if you are fiscally challenged like me... and want a cyclone... this is the ticket.

BOOMER52


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Excellent work, Steve! Great write-up on a cost-effective solution!

Cassandra


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

I use a trash can separator with a grizzly 1029 dc. does a good job,but looking for better fine dust collection.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi:

I use the cyclone lid and a vacuum cleaner. However, I found that if I added a drywall filter to the vacuum cleaner, my airborne fines diminished dramatically.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

I just read this complete thread and thought I would add my 2 cents worth. I too need a way to control dust in my small shop so I went to Amazon and find they have some pretty fair prices on Shop Fox Dust Collectors and other styles that are much cheaper, but for the price of a nice Router kit you can get a 1 HP dust collector. Also it would seem the Fox Shop collector takes up less room than a shop vac and a bucket footprint wise. Read some of the favorable reviews and make a decision based on that if you are of a mind to do so.


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## oliverc612 (Dec 3, 2009)

*More DC theory information*



Ken Bee said:


> I just read this complete thread and thought I would add my 2 cents worth. I too need a way to control dust in my small shop so I went to Amazon and find they have some pretty fair prices on Shop Fox Dust Collectors and other styles that are much cheaper, but for the price of a nice Router kit you can get a 1 HP dust collector. Also it would seem the Fox Shop collector takes up less room than a shop vac and a bucket footprint wise. Read some of the favorable reviews and make a decision based on that if you are of a mind to do so.


I know that I am a late entry... but I did not see any reference to the following information - If it was mentioned previously, sorry about that - my bad.
However, Bill Pentz did a lot of work on DC cyclones that may be of interest to some.
Check out: Bill's Cyclone & Dust Collection Research - Cyclone Plans 
The site is quite large, but has quite a bit of information if you are willing to dig through all of it.
Oliver


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## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

Cocheseuga said:


> I was thinking about adding just a 5gal bucket for chip collection, but that dust deputy is a bit pricey. I wonder if there's a DIY solution that would accomplish the same thing...besides just the bucket.


Rockler sells a lid that is much cheaper than the Dust Deputy that I have used and works well. You could also make a Thien Baffle for a very small material cost. Google Thien Baffle and you will get all you need for plans.


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## gary hopkinson (Jan 3, 2011)

I have a 100mm cyclone, but wish to set up a dust vac for my router. Nilfisk have a neat wet and dry commercial vacuum, a Multi 20 (20 litre). any recommendations on such a system with a shaving trap in the line?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Gary.

Any vac should be suitable for a router dust collection.

I use an old household vac and Triton dust bucket.

The router creates more fine dust than large chips/shavings.

To save wear and tear on the vac install a cyclone system or Triton Dust Bucket in the line.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

gary hopkinson said:


> I have a 100mm cyclone, but wish to set up a dust vac for my router. Nilfisk have a neat wet and dry commercial vacuum, a Multi 20 (20 litre). any recommendations on such a system with a shaving trap in the line?


Hi Gary:

Read the article on dust collection that I've posted here.


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

I have built 2 of the Thein separators for my 2 DC both have 4" connectors, one is using a old 16 gal shop vac bottom for the collector and the other is using a 30 gal. plastic barrel and I am very satisfied with both. So satisified I intend to build a 3rd separator with 2" connectors using a 5 gal bucket to connect to my shop vac for clean up.


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## Dodgeboy77 (Jun 14, 2013)

I was just cruising the site today and started reading this thread. Then I did some more reading, then some more, then came across a Woodwhisperer video where he compared three small separators. I thought about things for a while and long story short, I ended up ordering a DIY Oneida Dust Deputy from Woodcraft. I didn't even know I needed such a thing until I started reading this thread.

I'm blaming all of you for this! :nono:

Bill


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bill, Mark's test concentrated on how effective each of the models tested were at removing the fines from the air flow. It does not mention how flimsy the Oneida unit is or the fact that hoses tend to slip off pretty easy because of the tapered connectors. The Clear View Cyclones CV06 Mini is much more sturdy and the hoses stay put. Rocklers Dust-Right is the easiest to empty. The bottom line is they all work and members should be happy with any of them.


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## Dodgeboy77 (Jun 14, 2013)

Yeah, like I said, I did a lot of reading. I realize the Dust Deputy is kinda flimsy and prone to tip over whatever it's mounted on because it's top heavy. I always screw-clamp my hoses so I'm not worried about them slipping off.

What I am ruminating about is a proper container. I keep reading about fiber cans and garbage cans collapsing from the vacuum. Apparently folks have had success with a 20 gal. Rubbermaid Brute trash can. I want something bigger than a 5 gal. pail but small enough to haul up and down the basement stairs. Ideally, I'd like a container with a garbage bag liner so I could just take the bag out when full, but I don't know if that's workable. I know that Oneida has a deluxe model with a bag liner but I don't know how (or if) they secure it.

Maybe I'll tour the local industrial parks and look for empty barrels that the owners would give me or sell cheap. Maybe I could even find one that didn't have toxic waste in it!:bad:

Does anyone know if spackling compound comes in buckets bigger than 5 gal? That would probably be ideal in a 10 gal size.

If this Dust Deputy works well, it may be the start of something bigger. I have all my WW equipment hooked up to multiple shop vacs (mostly Ridgid) but the ones on the jointer and planer fill up fast. The one on my router table is shared with a floor model disk/belt sander and it clogs the filter easily. So if this DD works, it will probably lead to more purchases.

Yes, I know I should install a big central dust collector but it would be a pain to run duct work all through my basement shop. The shop vacs work well for my hobby purposes.

Bill


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## pathfinder027 (Mar 14, 2015)

hnicewicz said:


> is it possible to build dust collector with dry wet vacuum cleaner


Today I was at Woodcraft store, looking at dust collectors from $125 to about $1000. I told the man I am just starting out, and may work up to a big one later. He suggested (and I bought) a $25 plastic lid for a 5-gallon bucket (of which I have several), with two holes and and elbow. The Shop-Vac attaches to one of the holes, with an adapter, and the elbow goes on the inside of the lid to create a "cyclonic" vortex. The other hole gets attached to a 2 1/2 inch hose, which attaches at the other end to your power tool (I used it today on my table saw). The suction created by the Shop-Vac pulls most of the sawdust and larger pieces into the 5-gallon bucket, and any remaining sawdust goes to the Shop-Vac. It worked fine for me today. Actually, the shop vacuum I used was not the Shop-Vac brand, but a generic "Genie" model 300.


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## pathfinder027 (Mar 14, 2015)

Like they say a picture is worth a 1000 words and a video is like 10,000 words.. 
===========[/QUOTE]

I realize the posts on this thread are about 5 years old, but they are new to me, as I just joined the forum today. Also today I bought a $24 device at Woodcraft that attaches to a 5-gallon bucket to help collect sawdust and particles. Here is a (sort of) link to the Woodcraft item: www dot woodcraft dot com/Product/143868/Mini-Dust-Collection-Separator. Buy Mini Dust Collection Separator at Woodcraft.

It works for me. I used it on my table saw and got very little sawdust in the shop. I just got another idea from a YouTube video where a guy made an adapter like this, but he also connected the blower exhaust of his Shop-Vac to a hose and blew any residual dust outside, so none of it got in the shop.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

You're on the right path. You might want to put in a Thein Baffle which improves the separator by preventing the cyclone from "washing" the separated dust/chips. Here's Phil Thein's page Note that his design uses a center outlet which seems to also improved the separation over the the one you got. I believe by pulling the air from the center, it gives the dust more time to drop out of the flow.

I have a big separator that I use with my big DC and a little one on a cart with an auto switch. I love the cart. I just wheel it up to my work area and the auto switch makes it so I don't have to turn on the vac. A poor man's Fein dust extractor. I also put a HEPA filter in the shopvac so sanding is now amazingly dust free.

edit: sorry for the double pics - wonder when that bug is getting fixed.


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## Alf Beharie (Apr 12, 2015)

Cocheseuga said:


> I was thinking about adding just a 5gal bucket for chip collection, but that dust deputy is a bit pricey. I wonder if there's a DIY solution that would accomplish the same thing...besides just the bucket.


No need, just avoid buying the overpriced Dust Deputy! It costs £70 here in the UK (that works out to be over $102 US!!!), You can buy one of the virtually identical versions that does exactly the same job for about half the price! The cheapest one I have found here is only £27.99 ($40 US)...I'm using an "Omni Dust" version which costs £45 (£25 (about $37 US) cheaper than the Dust Deputy and its more robust as well. Another one you can look out for is the "Dust Mite".


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## Alf Beharie (Apr 12, 2015)

gary hopkinson said:


> I have a 100mm cyclone, but wish to set up a dust vac for my router. Nilfisk have a neat wet and dry commercial vacuum, a Multi 20 (20 litre). any recommendations on such a system with a shaving trap in the line?


Hi Gary, where did you get your 100 mm Cyclone, and how much was it? Perhaps you made your own?
I was planning on making my own as the cheapest 100mm one available here in the UK comes as a self assembly kit that costs £110 ($161 US) and I could make one for a fraction of that.


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## Alf Beharie (Apr 12, 2015)

Dodgeboy77 said:


> I was just cruising the site today and started reading this thread. Then I did some more reading, then some more, then came across a Woodwhisperer video where he compared three small separators. I thought about things for a while and long story short, I ended up ordering a DIY Oneida Dust Deputy from Woodcraft. I didn't even know I needed such a thing until I started reading this thread.
> 
> I'm blaming all of you for this! :nono:
> 
> Bill


Bill you could have saved yourself nearly half the money you spent on the Dust Deputy and bought one of the virtually identical versions that are a lot cheaper instead.


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## Alf Beharie (Apr 12, 2015)

pathfinder027 said:


> Today I was at Woodcraft store, looking at dust collectors from $125 to about $1000. I told the man I am just starting out, and may work up to a big one later. He suggested (and I bought) a $25 plastic lid for a 5-gallon bucket (of which I have several), with two holes and and elbow. The Shop-Vac attaches to one of the holes, with an adapter, and the elbow goes on the inside of the lid to create a "cyclonic" vortex. The other hole gets attached to a 2 1/2 inch hose, which attaches at the other end to your power tool (I used it today on my table saw). The suction created by the Shop-Vac pulls most of the sawdust and larger pieces into the 5-gallon bucket, and any remaining sawdust goes to the Shop-Vac. It worked fine for me today. Actually, the shop vacuum I used was not the Shop-Vac brand, but a generic "Genie" model 300.


The problem with using such a primitive device is that it has no "Thien baffle" to stop the fine circulating dust being sucked back into the suction hose to your dust extractor/shop vacuum...In my opinion that makes it worse than useless! I would invest in a proper Cyclone if I were you, not necessarily a Dust Deputy though as they are overpriced and other versions which work equally well are much cheaper. Or, you could goto youtube and look at the many excellent videos showing how you can make one yourself...


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## Alf Beharie (Apr 12, 2015)

By the way, to relieve the strain on the top of my Cyclone I use a special Silicon rubber angled hose which joins to the vac hose via a short length of Aluminium tubing. I bought the angled hose at Omnipole for £14.
http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o579/Alf_Beharie/anglehose1_zps50d8zki0.jpg


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

hnicewicz said:


> is it possible to build dust collector with dry wet vacuum cleaner


A vacuum cleaner or a shop vac?

Here is a pic of my shop vac with the dust deputy. It works great. Only the fine dust goes to the shop vac.

I use it for the sliding compound miter saw and tools like the random orbital sander and routers...and the pocket hole drilling jig.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

The only thing I would like to add is that one should use the best filters one can find for your DC system.
Not a big fan of shop vacs unless you discharge the exhaust air outside or into a fine particle filter.
I have yet to find a shop vac filter that can remove 1 micron particles AND provide adequate flow for any length of time.

Fine particles can be hazardous to you and your families health.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Alf Beharie said:


> The problem with using such a primitive device is that it has no "Thien baffle" to stop the fine circulating dust being sucked back into the suction hose to your dust extractor/shop vacuum...In my opinion that makes it worse than useless! I would invest in a proper Cyclone if I were you, not necessarily a Dust Deputy though as they are overpriced and other versions which work equally well are much cheaper. Or, you could goto youtube and look at the many excellent videos showing how you can make one yourself...


Well, it does drop a fair amount of the dust/chips into the bucket so it's better than nothing. The lack of a baffle means that the air flow scrubs the deposited chips and dust. That said, I agree a thein baffle is a huge step up. It's pretty easy to add one to that setup. I did and it works pretty well.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> The only thing I would like to add is that one should use the best filters one can find for your DC system.
> Not a big fan of shop vacs unless you discharge the exhaust air outside or into a fine particle filter.
> I have yet to find a shop vac filter that can remove 1 micron particles AND provide adequate flow for any length of time.
> 
> Fine particles can be hazardous to you and your families health.


Brad, you should look into a hepa filter. they aren't very expensive and last a fair amount of time if you use a separator. Mine's been going strong for about 4 months of frequent use.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> The only thing I would like to add is that one should use the best filters one can find for your DC system.
> Not a big fan of shop vacs unless you discharge the exhaust air outside or into a fine particle filter.
> I have yet to find a shop vac filter that can remove 1 micron particles AND provide adequate flow for any length of time.
> 
> Fine particles can be hazardous to you and your families health.


That's some very good points Brad . I never thought about exhausting it outside


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I just exhaust the shop vac into this. Thein Cyclone is built into the metal trash can.

P.S. And look.................someone has gone and gussed up the site for us.


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## 1planner (Jan 4, 2010)

I know this thread is old, but I'll add my 2 cents anyway. I use the Rockler Dust Right separator. It works well at keeping the large stuff away from my ShopVac so I don't have to clean the filter vary often. I have built "quick connects" into each piece of equipment (even my biscuit cutter) so I can just roll it over and hook it up. FWIW. Joel


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Joel.

Many have found a separator before the vac very useful.


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