# Barbie's She Shed



## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

She's finally up, and soon will get all her equipment (after the city inspector has approved her, that is)

Lots of room, and we'll be adding a loft and two work benches in her: one as an island, and one across the back wall (that may have cupboards underneath for storage,) The loft will be in the back, because Ken is already talking about putting a garage door on her, instead of the doors currently there. I opted out of the extras that were on the model; didn't need them; but may create an overhang once Ken makes up his mind if we're putting in the garage door.

The floor, I was informed, is strong enough to have a bulldozer on it. I get the felling Ken will be putting the truck in there, if absolutely necessary when he has to do repairs (if he puts on a garage door.)

Anyway, while a bit more plain than the model, I'm happy. Let the creative juices flow once again!!


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Nice! I get a chuckle from the TV ad about the she "shed!"


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Let the adventure begin!

Can't wait to see what creations come out of this new dream workspace!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That’s looking awesome Barb! Tell Ken the doors on there now are much efficient for keeping heat in then a garage door would ever be.
I’d much prefer to have those doors myself ,as I have no intentions of driving a vehicle in my shop again .


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Once the insulation and panelling go in it will be a dream shop, especially if it gets a reverse cycle air-conditioner!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

No on the garage door, leaks too much heat. The inside of my garage door is insulated, but it still leaks a lot of heat. Add radiant barrier put in under the roof before you insulate isn't cheap, but it really keeps the temperature under control. My shop shed walls are lined with radiant barrier beneath the insulation as well. Amazing how that stuff reflects the heat out in summer. With R38 insulation up top, plus radiant barrier, your present door setup is going to be comfortable most of the time. Are the windows double pane? That makes a BIG difference too. I did one wall in pegboard in my shed, which has been very handy. I hang small accessories up there so I don't forget I have them.

On balance, however, I sure wish I had one just like it. Barb's and Ken's palace.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow, looks great Barb. Yes, I'm getting jealous.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nice! I like the proximity of the doors to each other. It leaves long uninterrupted walls for benches, machines, and storage. Doors, while essential, are a R.P.I.T.A. as far as working efficiency is concerned.
The _garage_ doors are a huge bonus in decent weather; they allow for extending the work area out onto the area in front /behind the building.

I was painting a piece a couple of days ago, with a linseed oil based exterior stain. Being able to do it outside meant I kept the smell out of the shop, and the finish dried much faster outdoors.
I'm surprised at the complaints raised here about insulted garage doors; mine is excellent at keeping the heat in, and I fully utilize the 10'W x 7'H of the actual opening.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I'm surprised at the complaints raised here about insulted garage doors; mine is excellent at keeping the heat in, and I fully utilize the 10'W x 7'H of the actual opening.


Dan, The total of my door insulation is R12, 2 layers of R4 radiant barrier and one layer of R4 foam. Better than nothing I guess. Once you open the garage door, you'll lose most of you AC or heated air. It was also a pita to get that insulation installed.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Great looking shop, Barb. Your woodworking space has come a long way.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...complaints raised here about insulted garage doors;..."
-Me

Oops! Freudian slip?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Fantastic,Barb, You are going to have a ball organizing that shop the way you want it. Think of all kinds of ways to use that "attic" space too. I am so glad you got your shop.
I have an insulated garage door and am happy with it. Sure makes it easy to get big items into the shop. be sure to build a ramp of some sot on one of your doors to "wheel" stuff inside. You are going to spend a lot of happy hours in there creating your gems of signs.
Herb


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Thanks, everyone!

Ken was jealous; he wanted to be able to be home to watch them put it up. I took lots of pictures, and a couple movies as things were happening. Imagine my surprise when the crew that showed up was four Amish Men (Well, three, actually. One of them was only 16. In my book that's a teen/boy :lol: ) They arrived just about 7:30 a.m. and was piling in the truck to head back towards Clare, Michigan at 4:00 p.m. The longest task was the shingles and the siding; which, btw, is a lot lighter than I anticipated. Oh well; Made my choice, I have to stick with it. Also, I noticed that the doors are vinyl covered, as well as the trim around the doors and windows, so they will be remaining white, rather than my original plan of doing the regatta bay. Such is life.

They were a delight to have here, doing the work, and the conversations were great. I told my rep that if I had any other work that had to be done, I would be requesting these gentlemen. The hardest part was writing the check for the balance owing. That stung a bit, (alright, quite a bit. I liked seeing that big chunk o' change in my savings account, and now it's all gone :lol: )but - it was also worth it, as it took eight hours, rather than weeks/months to get completed.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Good for you guys, you will never regret it. Now the fun begins.
Herb


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## graeme.c.payne (Jun 21, 2017)

I agree with others on the "garage door" PROVIDED that means a roll-up door. There are other types. You could try a larger (wider) version of the current doors. Or a swing-up garage door. (My mother had one of those on her house just south of Denver, 1968-1985) 

Either "normal" swing-out doors, or swing-up doors, can be sealed much better in the closed position than roll-up doors. Keeping winter outside where it belongs makes for a much better space for creating, chilling & etc.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I’m with you Barb . Sometimes it’s just better to get people in and get er done , instead of this waiting thing .
I believe in a few months that it will be my garages 20th anniversary,and it’s still not insulated :grin:


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Well done Barb. Enjoy the journey.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a metal building but I have a 15X60' overhang that I call the Patio. I love having the overhang because all of my shop equipment is on wheels and I take things outside whenever possible. I can do sanding and other messy tasks outside and cleanup is easier. I would think that you would really like an overhang on the front. 

I have a 12 foot roll up door on the front of my shop. It does leak air in the winter but I live in East Texas and our winters are mild compared to some of the other forum members. For me the leakage of air is not a problem. If air migration is a problem they do make seals that help. I have a two burner propane stove that keeps my shop warm enough to work in the winter. In the summer the door is open all day with fans running. I would recommend putting some overhangs over the windows to keep them open but keep rain out. 

Enjoy your new shop space. Now the real work begins to outfit the shop with cabinets, benches other creature comforts. I highly recommend that you utilize the wall space for storage. You can go up but only have a limited space to go out with storage.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Barb, your shed is just perfect,wish I had one just like it.congratulations,hope you make millions in there.


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

It looks great, congratulations. Let the fun begin


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Barb, nice looking shop and well thought out and designed! Let us see pix of the finished shop with all your toys in it. 
My shop is what used to be a one car garage in the basement. House is a split level. Fought cold air as the door is a cheap steel, uninsulated door that leaked like a sieve. The wife put up plastic sheeting but you could see the plastic bulge from the air leaks. Wife and I finally got around to building a wall (beat the president's wall!). Built it out of 2x4s, insulated, painted and put up three shelves. Shop stays at a comfortable 72 degrees without the vent open. If I'm there for a while I'll open the vent to keep things cool. But the airflow is lower upstairs and it gets warmer.


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Those Amish guys do amazing and fast work. Nice shop Barb


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> Nice! I like the proximity of the doors to each other. It leaves long uninterrupted walls for benches, machines, and storage. Doors, while essential, are a R.P.I.T.A. as far as working efficiency is concerned.
> The _garage_ doors are a huge bonus in decent weather; they allow for extending the work area out onto the area in front /behind the building.
> 
> I was painting a piece a couple of days ago, with a linseed oil based exterior stain. Being able to do it outside meant I kept the smell out of the shop, and the finish dried much faster outdoors.
> I'm surprised at the complaints raised here about insulted garage doors; mine is excellent at keeping the heat in, and I fully utilize the 10'W x 7'H of the actual opening.


I think location has a big part in whether to think about garage doors. Here in Va., without heating my garage is almost always 20 warmer in the winter than outside temperatures. But the garage is insulated and sheetrocked as well.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

My neighbor started with a 10x12 shed and then started adding to it. It was built on a slab. so he mixed and poured new slabs, enclosed them with what he called a fence, but were actually walls, then added a roof, and then enclosed everything. The original shed now makes up a small part of the enclosed space. Doing it that way he was able to greatly expand his shed about 4 times its original size. My office shed has a porch that can be enclosed if I want, and there's a space between my two sheds that I've been enclosing to house my dust collection, but also to store ladders and other things out of the sun. In other words, the suggestion to put a roof over the doors at the end is really a good idea and pretty easy to build.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Thanks, everyone!
> 
> Ken was jealous; he wanted to be able to be home to watch them put it up. I took lots of pictures, and a couple movies as things were happening. Imagine my surprise when the crew that showed up was four Amish Men (Well, three, actually. One of them was only 16. In my book that's a teen/boy :lol: ) They arrived just about 7:30 a.m. and was piling in the truck to head back towards Clare, Michigan at 4:00 p.m. The longest task was the shingles and the siding; which, btw, is a lot lighter than I anticipated. Oh well; Made my choice, I have to stick with it. Also, I noticed that the doors are vinyl covered, as well as the trim around the doors and windows, so they will be remaining white, rather than my original plan of doing the regatta bay. Such is life.
> 
> They were a delight to have here, doing the work, and the conversations were great. I told my rep that if I had any other work that had to be done, I would be requesting these gentlemen. The hardest part was writing the check for the balance owing. That stung a bit, (alright, quite a bit. I liked seeing that big chunk o' change in my savings account, and now it's all gone :lol: )but - it was also worth it, as it took eight hours, rather than weeks/months to get completed.


Barb, I know what you mean by seeing that chunk of change in your account but don't think of it as money, just think that you've traded something dormant for something that's alive and useful. It's just a trade and will be replaced . Meanwhile the shed is alive and ready for action right now. All the best. Stay young and productive.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

jj777746 said:


> Barb, your shed is just perfect,wish I had one just like it.congratulations,hope you make millions in there.


Millions of signs/projects... maybe. Money? Doubtful. :lol:

Ken got the rights last night to say he made the first project in there; he did the island workbench. I'll post a picture later.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Shop envy for sure. Look forward to the finished interior and the first projects. Congratulations.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Barb, I bet you can produce a happy little income in that new shed. Save it up for a CNC maybe? You both seem to be go-getters at heart.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> Barb, I bet you can produce a happy little income in that new shed. Save it up for a CNC maybe? You both seem to be go-getters at heart.


You Mean "Complaining 'N Cursing?" That was your Acronym during the CNC chat? :lol: I can do that without saving up. Ask Ken; I do it well :lol:


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Barb, it hurts the budget sometimes to spend money for things like the shed. What is the price of quality?
A cheap price is lost when quality can be purchased for a little bit more.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Very nice, not the same as "old rusty" N


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Congratulations, Barb ...even your posts "sound" happy...

Enjoy your time in there...well deserved.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> You Mean "Complaining 'N Cursing?" That was your Acronym during the CNC chat? :lol: I can do that without saving up. Ask Ken; I do it well :lol:


Years of practice eh? :wink:


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> Years of practice eh? :wink:


Being married? You betcha!!! LOL


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Sounds like Ken deserves a raise, or at least a medal, or a day in his honor!! lol


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Sounds like Ken deserves a day in his honor!! lol


He's got Father's Day. :lol:

And a raise for....? I ordered, and paid for it :lol: He's only played in it; dang, he got to play in it before I did! (Something wrong with that picture....) LOL


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> He's got Father's Day. :lol:
> 
> And a raise for....? I ordered, and paid for it :lol: He's only played in it; dang, he got to play in it before I did! (Something wrong with that picture....) LOL


Sounds like he already got his Father's Day present!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

*As of Saturday Night...*

First Picture: the bench in the model where I bought the building.
Second Picture: Ken's version. I still have to sand it down, and put casters on it to roll around, but he got it done.

Yesterday was spent getting the stuff needed to put in the electrical outlets; (romex, 220 outlets, and blue boxes) as well as another light to hang. We're putting in approximately 15 outlets, including those that will be in the ceiling for the lights. (Just remembered I have to get a switch to run the outlets that will be in the ceiling.) We also ended up moving most of my things from the little shed to the new workshop, and Ken got his little space along the one wall to put a bench and keep his tools. He's already had to be warned to put his "bleep" drills away when he's done with them, to not leave them on the center island. :lol: especially right now, since the area is a mess. We need the table areas kept clean until things get put in their place.

Today will be spent placing the outlets, and I'll be changing the screen on the windows to a darker screen for sun-filtering and privacy. The same with the windows, if I can. (Getting tint for the windows.) The outlets are being placed at the height of the work tables, and horizontal, rather than vertical.

Next weekend we'll be putting up part of the insulation (roof and gable areas) then the walls, if all the electrical plugs are in. We also need to get the loft put in, and the bench along the back wall. (You can see it in picture 1. We're gonna make it deeper, though, because I may make the space under there cabinets.) I was told to drywall the ceiling and paint them white, but since we don't have any help, that's not gonna be possible. So, I guess we'll be using either ply or OSB painted white. It's easier to work with and Ken thinks I would be able to hold that up easier. Eh... you do what you can, right?

So that's the latest. Hope everyone is having a great weekend. All that shopping at Lowe's yesterday wore me out. I had to take a nap before I could even go out and play! I still have to get the new cover finished for our pergola on the deck, too. It looks shabby out there with the current coverings. *ugh*


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Don't manually lift drywall or ply for the ceiling. Rent a lift from home depot. Turns an onerous chore into a pretty easy task. Will save you many hours of back pain. It will go faster because both of you can install the screws. One day will do it.

Going to store stuff above the ceiling? So you'll insulate right under the roof. Strongly urge you to lay in a layer of radiant barrier, then the insulation. It makes a big difference in heat transfer resistance. You can get it in 24 inch rolls and just quick staple it up. One of you does that, the other follows along with the insulation. If the insulation doesn't fit tight you can always run some wire between rafters to hold it up.

Are you going to put ply above the ceiling so you can store stuff up there? There's a lot of space up there. Looking good.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I just missed buying a used one for $150 . May end up paying double for a new one


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I just missed buying a used one for $150 . May end up paying double for a new one


It might be better to rent it ,because you will never need it later and it will take up space storing it, Rick.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> It might be better to rent it ,because you will never need it later and it will take up space storing it, Rick.
> 
> Herb


To rent will probably cost me thousands the way I do things lol .
Best to buy and then sell it


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Looking good, Barb. 

When you install your outlets, put them above 4' so sheet stock can be leaned against the wall without covering the outlets. I would also recommend putting in quad boxes (2 duplex receptacles) at each location, and spacing them a maximum of 4' apart wherever work benches will be located. I did this and still don't have enough outlets in some places. Adding a few in the ceiling above your center workbench, table saw, etc. is a good idea too. When I wired my shop I ran 3 conductor #12 ga wire between the outlet boxes and connected the outlets in each box to alternating hot wires and neutral. The breaker for this is a 20 amp double pole breaker. I did this for two reasons. The first was to keep from having all of my 120 volt tools powered from just one 120 volt circuit. This way I can have two 120 volt or one 240 volt circuit at each box location. The other reason was to allow me the ability to change out one of the 120 volt duplex outlets for a 20 amp 240 duplex outlet if I should ever find the need to. For my 5 hp air compressor, 3 hp table saw, heat pump, and welder I have dedicated high current 240 volt circuits feeding them from separate double pole breakers. If I had a large dust collector it would also have it's own dedicated 240 volt circuit. The panel in my shop is a 100 amp 240 volt single phase sub panel, fed from my home's 200 amp panel 180' away. My shop is a dedicated out building located across a driveway from my home. My garage is attached to the opposite end of my home (not my best idea - too many trips from shop to garage for needed mechanic tools), but the layout of my property kind of forced me to do it this way. 

In my 14 X 26 shop I installed four 8' long double lamp florescent fixtures with them centered and running across the 14' width of the ceiling. They are equally spaced in the 26' direction with 1/2 space between the last fixture and the end wall. So I have about 600 watts of light spaced evenly on my ceiling. I went with the daylight color lamps, because it's easier to match finishes with this color light. The ceiling lights are on two switches, so I can have 1/2 or all of the lights lit (this hasn't been my best idea, because I always turn them all on).

I still have task lights, usually the goose neck LED lights that are available at Lowes, that I use for my drill presses, scroll saws, band saws, and a few more that move around when needed. These lights have a very bright daylight color and make it easy for these old eyes to see what is needed.They can run for hours and only get slightly warm too. Each of these lights has a big spring clamp to attach it to the tool, except I modified two of them for my scroll saw and mounted one on each side of the upper arm of the saw, using an aluminum shop made bracket that wraps around the upper arm of the saw and has a mounting point on each side of the arm to attach the gooseneck with the spring clamp removed. The lights then can be positioned to shine on each side of the blade, and eliminate almost all of the blade shadows. 

These are all suggestions based on how I built my shop. Almost all of my ideas worked out well for me and how I use my shop. Probably the only thing that I would want to do differently inside the shop is to put my outlet boxes closer together, maybe 3' apart. I'm running out of outlets for my 120 volt tools, radio, Weather alert radio, clock, little fridge, computer, etc. Modern 120 volt requirements are requiring less power than they used to, but there are more things that need to plug in to 120 volt power than ever before.

If we were closer, I would loan you my drywall lift. It's been sitting unused for about 5 years now, but hopefully soon my #2 son will need it, if he ever gets his house remodeling to the drywall point. 

Charley


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## graeme.c.payne (Jun 21, 2017)

I have to agree with CharleyL about Power outlets - it is really hard to have too many. It is getting to be the same with USB charging ports as well. 

I had a 100A subpanel installed in my new workshop. I have a small office at one end; it has its own 120V 15A light and receptacle circuits. 

(I despise the common practice of putting lights and receptacles on the same circuit! I know it's allowed, but to me it seems horribly unsafe. If you are using a tool that overloads and the lights go out just when you need them most ... end of rant.) 

In the shop area there is one circuit for lighting. Each of the long walls has its own circuits for 120V 20A and 240V 20A. Each wall has six duplex 120V 20A receptacles and two 240V receptacles. 

In the office, I also have several USB power fixtures. Each has four USB connectors for devices requiring up to 2.1A. I also put one in the workshop near the workbench. This greatly reduces the number of power bricks (wall warts) I have to keep track of. (I may need to install another of those near the workbench, because I already have been gifted a couple of tools that charge from USB.)


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@CharleyL

I copied and pasted your post in an email to Ken and he took a couple of your ideas. He's putting two switches (for the lights), and although we don't use 4x8's too often for stock, he adjusted the height a little of the outlets. Each wall will be on their own circuit, and there's going to be a breaker box in the shed, and the breaker box in the house will probably be updated. We had already purchased the 12/120 (yellow line) to run, rather than the standard white 10, and the outlets were the ones that have the little mark off the side for the higher amp outlets. 

Now to find an electrician near me that would come out, inspect to make sure Ken has it right, and to hook it all together... that's the hard part.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a 60 amp sub panel installed by an electrician with a Ditch Witch. It breaks out into 3 20 amp circuits in the shop with CFGI plugs that feed both the shop and small office shed. Each circuit is color coded so I can avoid accidentally overloading the circuit. 

My lights are high output LEDs with screw in bases. I don't like the blue/white LEDs so use 4K type. Have two very high output (2400 lumen)lights from Rockler over my table saw and over the work bench. They have a built in reflector. The dark corners are illuminated with under cabinet strip lights and several LED bulbs in wall mounted sockets with pull chain switches so I can light them up only when using them.

The Blue circuit is for lights, AC and or heaters. I can plug a small tool in that circuit if I wish since the lights eat less than one amp. The DC is on its own Orange circuit and power tools are plugged into the Green circuit and run one tool at a time. This has worked well for me. Wall plugs are set above 4 feet on the wall where I store flat goods. 

One thing I did wrong is the on/off switch for the DC unit, which is presently located under a shelf. I will eventually move it to a more convenient spot. My stationary power tools are all on one end of the shop, so the switch will likely be relocated to a wall near the middle. 

I have one wall that is covered with quarter inch pegboard. It doesn't seem to affect the insulation qualities on that wall, but it is really nice to have all the small stuff hanging in plain sight.

The other end of the shop has shelving on both sides, with the workbench centered between them. One side's are simple plywood shelves on L brackets that hold things I often use. The other side are wire shelves on adjustable brackets. I store things there in standard matching plastic containers are all matched and stack neatly. The top shelf is for storing long flat items, the two middle shelves hold mostly the stacking containers, the lowest shelf holds a variety of items, including spare empty containers. 

I try to keep the bottom 16 inches between bottom shelves and floor clear to facilitate cleaning out sawdust and other stuff on the floor and in corners.

It took a little time, but almost all of my cabinets and tool stands have doors now. This really is the only way to keep sawdust out of nooks and crannies. That stuff is insidious. I'm seriously thinking of putting a porch in front of shop shed and hauling my sliding miter out there for use. It is by far the worst offender in my shop. 

Consider laying down linoleum or coating the floor to make it easier to clean. You'd want to do this before moving all kinds of stuff in there. 

Just some random thoughts.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

It looks like you two are making a great start. It sure would be nice to start with a fresh untouched scene and add as you go along. More power to yuh, both of you. I admire your dream. (actually, a little envious, too). What'll you do for heat in the winter, or are you in southern Michigan? (tongue in cheek)


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@thomas1389 :lol: somewhat "southern" (Waterford/White Lake area). Ken plans on having a heater installed in one of the upper corners of the workshop. I just have to get used to the idea that I have to go out to the workshop, turn on the lights and heater, and go back a half hour later. I'm used to starting up my little heater and the room being warm in a matter of a few minutes (since the old shed was 10x12), so it never took long to get it heated up. This will be a totally new experience. However, unlike some, I'll be insulated. Ken won't let me procrastinate on the insulation. He's already givin' me crap over what we're putting in and when. :lol:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> @thomas1389 :lol: somewhat "southern" (Waterford/White Lake area). Ken plans on having a heater installed in one of the upper corners of the workshop. I just have to get used to the idea that I have to go out to the workshop, turn on the lights and heater, and go back a half hour later. I'm used to starting up my little heater and the room being warm in a matter of a few minutes (since the old shed was 10x12), so it never took long to get it heated up. This will be a totally new experience. * However, unlike some*, I'll be insulated. Ken won't let me procrastinate on the insulation. He's already givin' me crap over what we're putting in and when. :lol:


I get this weird vibe lol


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@RainMan 2.0 There's a cure for that feeling Rick.
@OutoftheWoodwork I found a remote controlled switch that lets me start a heater from the kitchen so the shop warms up some before I go out there. It the Radio Frequency type and is very reliable. Works at 100 feet or further. I put the receiver in a window facing the house.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Barb, 
A separate circuit for each wall of the shop is a bit over done. How many power tools will be connected to these outlets and in use at the same time? Can you use a drill and a sander at the same time? With Ken working on one side of the shop and you the other side I think 2 circuits would be enough, but it's your shop and your money. Just make certain that not all of the lights are connected to the same outlet circuit. Run one set of lights from one and the other set from another other outlet circuit. That way you won't be in total darkness when you trip a breaker.

If you are going to bury the power cable from the house to the shop you should consider adding other wires to the trench, like Cable TV, Intercom, Telephone, Internet, Remote control for the heat/cooling system, alarm system, etc. Wire is cheap, so adding the wires for these now, even if you don't plan to use them all immediately, is a good idea. This way you won't need to dig another trench to add something later. I Just ran a second 1 1/2" conduit for these, but pulled the wire for everything and left considerable extra wire at both ends so I could make use of them later. If in the same conduit, they all need to be low voltage signal type cables. Don't run power cables mixed with signal cables in the same conduit. I used PVC conduit and glued all of the joints. It just ends in the crawl space under the house and between the wall studs in the shop, but the wires are long enough to go into the shop attic for accessibility after the shop walls are covered. 

I don't know what kind of heater Ken is considering, but electric heat is expensive to run, and uses a considerable amount of the available load on your shop panel. If he goes this way, make certain that there is enough power available to run the heater, dust collector, table saw, lights, and a few smaller power tools at the same time. I'm in the Southeast now, so I now am using a heat pump in my shop, so I get both heating and cooling from the same unit. When I lived in NY State and had a separate shop I had an oil furnace from a mobile home that burned #2 fuel oil and a window air conditioner for the few really warm days. You just need to figure out the economics for the heating and cooling choices that you and Ken make.

Charley


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> @thomas1389 :lol: somewhat "southern" (Waterford/White Lake area). Ken plans on having a heater installed in one of the upper corners of the workshop. I just have to get used to the idea that I have to go out to the workshop, turn on the lights and heater, and go back a half hour later. I'm used to starting up my little heater and the room being warm in a matter of a few minutes (since the old shed was 10x12), so it never took long to get it heated up. This will be a totally new experience. However, unlike some, I'll be insulated. Ken won't let me procrastinate on the insulation. He's already givin' me crap over what we're putting in and when. :lol:


Here's a dumb question.... When you, or any person, responds to another I see the symbol @ and the name of the person highlighted in blue, then the message. I don't know how to do that. Would you tell me, please. Also, if I want to quote just a portion of a post when I reply, how is that done ? This question likely belongs in a separate post but I thought while I had you I'd ask. I obviously am not that computer literate. lol. Does it show?


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@thomas1389 the @ symbol will "mention" or give you a notification that someone is directing what they're saying directly to you, rather than the group. To do this, I press the @, and without a space, type the members nickname (I would be OutoftheWoodwork). 

To eliminate what you don't want in a quote, well, to me, that's easiest by doing it on a computer, and you just highlight and delete the text you don't want in there, and type below the "quoted text."

Hope that helps :smile:


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@CharleyL

You're killin' me :lol: okay, one thing at a time: Each wall to have their own breaker was a recommendation from my electrician/structural guys here; it's not considered overkill when you're talking power tools and how much they pull when in use. I may be running my router, and Ken will be cutting, or sanding, or doing something close by. If each wall has their own breaker, and his wall pops, then I can keep on working. No telling what is going to be out there; as for my money/my shop, Ken is doing the most tedious part of laying the electricity, and his bill is easy to pay :wink: no cash involved... :lol: as to how it will be run to the house, I don't know, and won't know until I get the electrician to the house to go over the options. I have wifi, and use it for all my television watching, (Ken is talking about putting in one of our extra televisions in there; he'll be watching it, not me, unless I find a how-to video I need to see and follow along with). no landlines, intercom is for old farts (jk), and more than likely I'll have the wifi handling the security. I'll have to get the booster to reach out to the workshop, but I'm good with that.




CharleyL said:


> Barb,
> A separate circuit for each wall of the shop is a bit over done. How many power tools will be connected to these outlets and in use at the same time?
> 
> *I don't know what kind of heater Ken is considering, but electric heat is expensive to run, and uses a considerable amount of the available load on your shop panel. If he goes this way, make certain that there is enough power available to run the heater, dust collector, table saw, lights, and a few smaller power tools at the same time.* I'm in the Southeast now, so I now am using a heat pump in my shop, so I get both heating and cooling from the same unit. When I lived in NY State and had a separate shop I had an oil furnace from a mobile home that burned #2 fuel oil and a window air conditioner for the few really warm days. You just need to figure out the economics for the heating and cooling choices that you and Ken make.
> ...



Well yeah, thus the reason for the separate circuits? :lol: The heater is something Ken has in his head. I have no way of putting a gas line out to the workshop, so electricity is how it will be handled, (and on it's own circuit, not on with the power tools because of the draw on it.) I also have a stand up freezer that will be out there, (to get it out of the spare room in the house; my house is s m all, can ya tell?) so that has to be taken into consideration.

There will be two (2) light switches one for each side, and the breaker box is going to be close to those switches, so I'm guessing Ken was gonna hook them up so that if one pops, it won't take the other with it; leaving me in the dark. I'll know all the who's what's where's and why's after I get the electrician out to the house to look it all over. I may have Ken just do the boxes and outlets, holding off on the wires until after I get someone out there.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I am a big fan of lights on multiple circuits. Nothing worse than tripping a breaker and the lights go out when a power tool is running.

With 2 light circuits at least half should always be on


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

It’s all open and accessible right now , so I’d sooner over design . I’m liking the 12gauge 20amp wire and separate circuits on each wall idea. 
And I believe I read your putting in 240V circuits to . 


Barb I dislike wifi and would have Ethernet running into the shop from the houses router .
Would also hardwire alarm sensors while I’m at it . I have wireless alarm sensors which work fine from my alarm panel in my house to my unattached garage , but I have to change batteries yearly .
Anything that can be hardwired instead of wireless is better in my books


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## ndenial (Jan 18, 2015)

Great job on the shed! I'm in the IT field and highly suggest that you at the very minimum run a separate conduit from your house to the shed with a pull string in it. You can run this in the same trench as the electric, I believe most code will require at least 12" vertical separation. Why skimp on $50 of materials when you have spent thousands. It won't cost any extra in labor since the trench is already being dug.

I have a feeling you will experience intermittent connection to your WiFi and when you get fed up with that you will have wished you ran the ethernet. Also, if you put LED lighting in, it can really interfere with your signals.

Any kind of streaming will tax your wireless connection, so you will want an Access Point (Ubuquity Unify are great) installed in your shed for best connection to those devices. 

Now there are solutions for wireless back haul (P2P wifi) but the cost is far more than what two runs of cat6A would be, always do two runs of cable. Just keep the max length below 100m (if you need further get single mode fiber with converters).

Also security should never be on wifi. It should be hard wired, and powered separately on a UPS. But that's a whole different conversation.


What are you doing for your floor? Epoxy sealing? Bare wood floors always make for a dusty shop and harder to clean.

Best to you and your build!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

ndenial said:


> What are you doing for your floor? Epoxy sealing? Bare wood floors always make for a dusty shop and harder to clean.
> 
> Best to you and your build!


The floors are deep tongue-in-groove 2x8's. (see https://www.weaverbarns.com/ ) Epoxy that? I'd be slippin all over the place?

As for the other recommendations, thank you. I'll run it all by Ken. You make some valid points (as do you all, who have been giving me pointers, and I thank you all.)

We got our final approval, and the sticker, stuck on the building permit hangs proudly next to the side door to show it's all set *whoop whoop!*


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> @thomas1389 the @ symbol will "mention" or give you a notification that someone is directing what they're saying directly to you, rather than the group. To do this, I press the @, and without a space, type the members nickname (I would be OutoftheWoodwork).
> 
> To eliminate what you don't want in a quote, well, to me, that's easiest by doing it on a computer, and you just highlight and delete the text you don't want in there, and type below the "quoted text."
> 
> Hope that helps :smile:


Oh, so simple when it's explained. I was trying to do all kind of weird things to make it work. Thanks, Barb.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

What are you doing for dust collection? Mine is on one of the three circuits, which are all color coded so I can avoid plugging two machines, AC/heater, in at the same time. The DC, to me, is a must. The floor, consider using some of the ultra thick paint for decks. Not a slick surface, but will make cleanup easier, including the occasional damp mop. When you can, add one of the WEN filters you hang from the ceiling (near a wall) and run for an hour or two when you leave. And if you aren't going to have a DC unit, at least wear masks. You don't want to be careless about your lungs.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@DesertRatTom :

Ken is getting me the dust collector that Harbor Freight has; he's been looking and watching, and it's gotten great reviews. Remember, y'all on here are much more sophisticated in your wood working than I am, so I don't know if I need an elaborate machine. I know (after seeing what mess I had in the old shed) that I need a system. I was a little taken aback by the amount of sawdust that was everywhere from the last three (3) years, and wondered how much sawdust Ken and I had breathed in inadvertently, not having room to have a dust collector in the old shed. And I'll admit, I was/am lazy about the masks. So.... we have the means to get a system, so I'm getting one.

Anyone who lives near me who wants to help set up/design, you're more than welcome to the Barbie n' Ken Workshop :lol: (Us women rarely admit that we don't know it all, this is your opportunity to take advantage of a weak moment LOL)

**UPDATE ON GARAGE DOOR DILEMMA** To those who opposed it, oh well, I got it. Found one for $449 at Menard's (on sale) and it's getting installed the 28th. Might as well... the building qualifies as a 1 1/2 car garage in size, and those little doors just look funny :lol: They aren't proportioned to the shed. Besides; if it's raining, and my truck needs a simple repair, Ken can't use the excuse he has nowhere to work on my pick-up lol


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@thomas1389 

glad I could help :smile:


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## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

Cool looking shop. You can use https://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner to help with shop layout. It's easy to use and free. The only bad thing with the HF DC unit is the so called filter bag. It's horrible and will put a lot of fine dust in the air. I used this one https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-Replacement-Canister-Filter-for-G0583Z/T23129 for several years and was very happy with it. It is a direct fit for the HF so no modification is needed.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Bob is correct, the bag is going to allow the really nasty ultra fine dust to escape into the shop. Almost impossible to clear that out of your lungs, and some woods are carcinogenic. Ideally you'll eventually get a chip collector in addition to the HF unit. If you get a drum filter, today, I'd get the Grizzly filter. A little more than the Wynn version, but it has an internal beater bar to knock the dust accumulation out of the filter. With the Wynn, you blow compressed air through from the outside once in a while.

Unless you can find a way to put the HF unit outside, you've got to put a drum type filter on it--the bag is not workable inside. I have a bag on one in the garage, but it goes outside when I work in there. The other is no longer inside the shop, but in an enclosed space between two sheds. 

The WEN filter box hangs from the ceiling along one wall. It's a pretty low draw 1/6th hp motor. It has a remote control to change speed and run time. You start it running when you leave the shop. Amazing how well it clears the air. Setting it near a wall produces a circular air flow. It even uses the same filters as the much more expensive JET unit.

Look for a holiday sale when HF sends their big sale catalog around. It usually has a 20-25% discount coupon that brings the price of the basic unit down to about $162, plus tax. To be completely fair, Stick argues that it's better to get one of the Jet units, which lists a higher number for air flow. But it is much more expensive and I think any DC is better than none. Everyone is having fun with your new shed, LOL.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

While Ken's at Harbor Freight, have him pick up a box of 50 surgical style masks. For the last two years, I've had some breathing problems that also affect my voice. I notice that just wearing one of these cheapie masks, that my lungs are less irritated. I don't keep them around long, but they're always handy. When I clean up the shop, I put one on. When the weeds are putting out pollen, I put one on, especially for yard work.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Tom’s point about the canister is well made. Definitely worth the investment.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

lol Y'all think I'm made of money. I'll get what I can afford, but I promise, I'm taking all your recommendations to heart. I just can't fork out a lot of money at once. (Remember what I just forked out for the building, and things that are needed for it; insulation, electrical, etc.) I'll have to save up for that $239 filter, and I have surgical masks, Tom, but I don't like them. They fog up my glasses. I can have the collector outside for the summer months, so I won't have Ken set it up in the back of the shop until I get a better filter for it.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Save your money, space, airborn dust worries and, bag hassles. Vent that DC to the outside. With a trash can separator to catch the chunks and most of the dust, you'll get minimal debris outside. And, unless you run the DC continuously for 8-10 hours a day, with that little HF unit, you won't see a loss of heat or cooling in the shed. Mine has operated that way for several years with no downside.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

As sawdust builds up in the bag, it will filter finer and finer stuff. A trash can separator with a Thein chip separator made of plywood is pretty effective and cheap to make. It will greatly reduce the amount of sawdust that reaches the filter bag. Lots of versions on YouTube


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Good for you Barb. I wouldn't let Ken put his truck in there and if he gets fussy about it keep him out. :wink: I would keep my wife out of my shop but she is the boss. :crying:


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

hawkeye10 said:


> Good for you Barb. I wouldn't let Ken put his truck in there and if he gets fussy about it keep him out. :wink: I would keep my wife out of my shop but she is the boss. :crying:


Small doors insure that no vehicles can enter my shop. Now, the wife....nope, not going there.:wink:


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Barb:

I had the same problem with dust masks fogging my glasses until I changed to the new ,(to me anyway) mesh versions ( bought mine at Rockler). The filters work very well and no issues with fogging. I think DesertRatTo: uses the same.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*great set-up...*

Reading some of these posts, I am sure that I detect "shed" envy. LOL.


Lots of good advice given, and we all look forward to many projects rolling out the door...


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

My inexpensive 3M masks work well and don't cause my glasses to fog. But, my beard may help with that.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> Reading some of these posts, I am sure that I detect "shed" envy. LOL.
> 
> 
> Lots of good advice given, and we all look forward to many projects rolling out the door...


LOL James. Technically, it's considered a garage with the size of it. I used the garage set up tool someone recommended on here (sorry, it escapes me who, at the moment, but I thank you for it) and the truck fits in with room to spare; he would have to move everything around, but he'll be able to work on the vehicle in inclement weather, if need be. Can't use it to park either of the trucks in on a regular basis (I'll post a pic one of these days as to why) but we could if needed to do a simple repair. My neighbor behind me said "I thought you were building a SHED!? That's a GARAGE!" She, too, couldn't believe how quick it went up. The garage door will be put in the 28th. Then I'll have to find an opener, and I'm making accordion screen panels to attach to the opening for air flow and bug control. (Three panels, each being three feet wide, connected by hinges.) Got the idea from Ken's grandparents, who every summer had a similar set up for their garage; they used their garage as a gathering area with the green indoor/outdoor carpet, and a bamboo patio set. 

I, too, am looking forward to rolling out some projects. This rainy, nasty weather is hindering us a little, however.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Probably a good idea to make a path of concrete pieces (12-18 inch square) so you don't track mud in. One day for a garage! That's amazing.


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