# Suggest a bit please



## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

A forgotten teapot went dry and caused a formica counter top to bubble up. I'm hoping to plane it flat with a sled but am wondering which particular bit would best suit planing formica or arborite. Any suggstions would be appreciated


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Not a good idea. Formica is a clear layer of laminate on top of a patterned layed of paper, on top of plain layers of paper, all soaked with a phenolic resin. Trying to plane the bubble down will cut into the un-patterned layers. You could try drilling a hole from the bottom up into the air pocket but it is a very slow process, best finished by hand that is very tricky to do without drilling through the laminate. If you can make it work, squirt some glue through from the bottom and put some weight on the laminate until the glue dries.


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks Cherryville but the problem is bigger than that - the size of the teapot - about 5" in diameter. I want to just level off the laminate and put new laminate over top. I'm just wondering if I need a special bit for laminate or will any planing bit do.


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Are you talking about the *whole* countertop or just the damaged area?

Mike


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

I really don't think using a router for this job is going to work, not least because the router will not like the underlying adhesive and will soon get its cutting edges mired in it.

Whether you were thinking of removing all the formica this way, or just a piece of it to drop in a matching new piece, I don't think it would work. If someone else has managed it, it would be interesting to read about it.

Cheers

Peter


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day lynda

Welcome to the router forum. 

Thank you for joining us


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome James. To be precise with my problem and my intentions, the countertop is originally a formica sheet glued to a plywood base - this house was built during the 70's and that was the style back then. The heat from the teapot caused the countertop to swell over a 5" diameter area. I would like to somehow grind down the "swell" (a maximum of 1/4" in height) to eliminate the rise so that I get a smooth level surface on which I will apply a new sheet of formica the entire length of the counter. I'll run up and take a picture tomorrow so it's clearer what I'm talking about.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Lynda

I will suggest doing it the inlay way, once you get the spot down insert the patch ,than cover the repair with a new full sheet...if you are real lucky you can find the same "formica" ..Or you can put your own design in your counter top ..like a tea pot  or insert a ceramic tile for a hot plate thing..just need to make a template,,see video below..

http://www.routerworkshop.com/inlays112.html
http://www.routerworkshop.com/inlay0802.html
http://brianhavens.us/resource/router-inlay-basics

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=41779&cat=1,43000,51208,41779
http://www.harborfreight.com/solid-brass-router-inlay-kit-99552.html

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Tarmigan said:


> Thanks for the welcome James. To be precise with my problem and my intentions, the countertop is originally a formica sheet glued to a plywood base - this house was built during the 70's and that was the style back then. The heat from the teapot caused the countertop to swell over a 5" diameter area. I would like to somehow grind down the "swell" (a maximum of 1/4" in height) to eliminate the rise so that I get a smooth level surface on which I will apply a new sheet of formica the entire length of the counter. I'll run up and take a picture tomorrow so it's clearer what I'm talking about.


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks Bob. I gather from all the answers, I can use any flatbottomed bit to do the job, whether by inlay or otherwise. First I must get the raised spot down to either the same height as the rest of the formica or down to the plywood. Either way, I must have a flat surface. I think it would be easiest to do an inlay. Even if it doesn't fit exactly, so long as the difference allows the new sheet to lay flat and not dip or rise at that point. I already have the formica and intend to update the entire counter. Will keep you all informed how it works out. Thanks


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

*Burned countertop*

Here's a picture of the damaged area. The center is raised about 1/4". I gather I should rig up some sort of a ski system to try and plan it down to an even height overall. If that doesn't give me a flat even surface, I'll then try cutting the secton out and doing a sort of inlay.


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## Putter (Jan 15, 2011)

If your intention is to re-cover the entire countertop, then I'd probably just use a belt sander.

Putter


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks Putter for thinking outside the box. That may be the easiest way to solve my problem. I'll certainly give it a try!


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Putter has it bang on. If you aren't going to remove the original Formica laminate you'll have a problem with getting the contact adhesive you use to fix the new laminate to stay put. The shiny surface of Formica is impervious and doesn't allow any sort of mechanical bond to develop. bty sanding with a relatives coarse belt (say 60 grit) you can face off the swelled section and matt the surface sufficiently to get a half-decent glue bond

Regards

Phil


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## The Warthog (Nov 29, 2010)

Wouldn't it be less trouble, if a bit more expensive, to replace the countertop? That's what I did in a similar situation. Made Mrs. Warthog so happy that she didn't gore me that day.


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## Tarmigan (Mar 7, 2011)

The Warthog said:


> Wouldn't it be less trouble, if a bit more expensive, to replace the countertop? That's what I did in a similar situation. Made Mrs. Warthog so happy that she didn't gore me that day.


I did consider it Warthog and figured it would be close to the $400.00 mark. One section is 8' X 24" and the other is 10' X 24" long with a corner cut.This is a rental unit. A friend who works for a supplier, offered me a 5' X 12' piece of melamine for $15.00 - one little corner was broken. I couldn't turn it down. Plus this was built in the 70's when they built cupboards in place, not in units. The top is two pieces of 5/8" plywood attached to the bases one sheet at a time so it would be quite a job pulling the nails and I would probably damage the countertop supports.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Tarmigan said:


> I did consider it Warthog and figured it would be close to the $400.00 mark. One section is 8' X 24" and the other is 10' X 24" long with a corner cut.This is a rental unit. A friend who works for a supplier, offered me a 5' X 12' piece of melamine for $15.00 - one little corner was broken. I couldn't turn it down. Plus this was built in the 70's when they built cupboards in place, not in units. The top is two pieces of 5/8" plywood attached to the bases one sheet at a time so it would be quite a job pulling the nails and I would probably damage the countertop supports.


Know what you mean there. House I had that was built in the early 70's didn't even have cabinets. Humongous face frames with shelves attached to the back wall:fie:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Just curious Lynda, did the idea of cutting a hole out and placing a cutting board or a tiled piece in its place not turn out to be practical? That would still be your cheapest and easiest solution if it is practical.
If you intend to sand the surface down, keep in mind that you will sand though the bubbled part. Even if you feather the edges of the bubble you may leave a void in the new sheet where the bubble was because that spot will be lower than the area around it. You will also have to make sure that the edges around that hole are still securely glued down or you will be gluing new laminate to loose laminate and it may bubble slightly because of that. If you need to glue the edges down Weldbond will work and I have also used (Lee Valley's) Chair Doctor glue to re-stick laminate. It is very thin glue and has its own needle applicator.
You will also have to be careful later not to drop anything on the repaired area. Laminate that is securely stuck down to a substrate is very tough. If it is not stuck down well it can crack or shatter.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just curious Lynda, did the idea of cutting a hole out and placing a cutting board or a tiled piece in its place not turn out to be practical? That would still be your cheapest and easiest solution if it is practical.


I'd be concerned about sealing the edges of a cut-out like that because particle board is a really efficient blotter if not sealed absolutely perfectly. But then if I were doing the job for a paying customer I'd probably be more worried about possible call backs in the future.

I'm really surprised at the cost of pre-laminated countertops in the US. over here we generally pay £100 to £150 ($160 to $240) for a 4.2 metre (13.5 ft) length of top quality 40mm (1-1/2in) thick worktop.

Phil


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Phil P said:


> I'd be concerned about sealing the edges of a cut-out like that because particle board is a really efficient blotter if not sealed absolutely perfectly. But then if I were doing the job for a paying customer I'd probably be more worried about possible call backs in the future.
> 
> I'm really surprised at the cost of pre-laminated countertops in the US. over here we generally pay £100 to £150 ($160 to $240) for a 4.2 metre (13.5 ft) length of top quality 40mm (1-1/2in) thick worktop.
> 
> Phil


The idea that I suggested to her was to rabbet (rebate) the back side to fit the hole and leave a lip on the topside to overlap the countertop and hide the cutout. You wouldn't have to finish the cut edges of the substrate but of course it would look better when you removed the piece for cleaning. I would probably try to seal it with a coat of glue if I were going to do that.

It's my opinion that if she tries to laminate another ply on top of her counter she could wind up throwing good money after bad. It's not just the top, what about the edges and backsplash? Everything has to be done in place and you won't be able to get to the wall with a router which means she'll have to file some of it to shape and size. That requires a pretty good skill set and based on her questions, I don't think she has those skills. (Hopefully you don't take offense at my comments Lynda.)


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## tombug (Feb 21, 2012)

if you are going to laminate the counter top first take off the old laminate by using a iron and some brown paper plus a filler blade and some flat lengths of wood. starting at the end of the work top you place the paper on the surface and the iron on top to soften the glue and the blade to part the laminate from the plywood working your way along the surface as you do so you but the flat lengths of wood so the laminate does not stick back down and the paper is to protect the iron so you don't have marks on your white shirt ! this then giving you a flat surface to replace the laminate and you can reuse the flat lengths of wood when laying the new laminate. take your time and no bubbles.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Tarmigan said:


> Thanks for the welcome James. To be precise with my problem and my intentions, the countertop is originally a formica sheet glued to a plywood base - this house was built during the 70's and that was the style back then. The heat from the teapot caused the countertop to swell over a 5" diameter area. I would like to somehow grind down the "swell" (a maximum of 1/4" in height) to eliminate the rise so that I get a smooth level surface on which I will apply a new sheet of formica the entire length of the counter. I'll run up and take a picture tomorrow so it's clearer what I'm talking about.


What about starting with a new ply top and gluing your new Formica sheet on that. Would be the easiest wouln't it?


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## cowtown_eric (Apr 30, 2010)

if the formica appears undamaged and simply foms one large bubble about the size of the teapot, like the glue has let go, then perhaps A heat gun and a roller can be used to warm the adhesive and cause it to readhere if you warm it first, roll it, and then put a flat piece of MDF over it with signifigant weight, you may be succesful.

Too much heat will cause the formica to blister and show " burn" marks"

BUT if the formica shows burn marks or smaller blisters, you ain't gonna fix it with a router or plane..

There are tempered glass inserts which can be inset into the countertop .countertop save comes to mind, and a quick search reveals....

Installing glass countertop savers | Fine Homebuilding | Breaktime

Scope out the link in the first message.

Hope that helps

Eric in Calgary


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