# Absolute must have tools for woodworking



## JonU (Oct 3, 2014)

Hey guys, I'm pretty new to woodworking and don't really have any tools to speak of. I'm looking at starting a project around the December/January. I'm planning on making a computer case from wood and for the most part it should be pretty simple cuts. If you look at the picture below, you can get a pretty good idea about the types of cuts I'll need to make.Here is what I'm thinking will be the bare minimum I'll need to do this project:

Router
Jigsaw
Table saw w/ dado blade
Plane
Small chisel
drill press with countersinks for the holes I need to drill for mounting radiators and what not.

I'm not too sure how I would go about making all the cuts along the edges. This will definitely be a learning process.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JonU said:


> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to woodworking and don't really have any tools to speak of. I'm looking at starting a project around the December/January. I'm planning on making a computer case from wood and for the most part it should be pretty simple cuts. If you look at the picture below, you can get a pretty good idea about the types of cuts I'll need to make.Here is what I'm thinking will be the bare minimum I'll need to do this project:
> 
> Router w/guide *- Bosch...
> Bosch RA1054 Deluxe Router Edge Guide With Dust Extraction Hood & Vacuum Hose Adapter - Router Templates - Amazon.com*
> ...


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## Fraise (May 19, 2012)

This is a couple of thousand quid's worth of tools just to make a box. Are you sure?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Fraise said:


> This is a couple of thousand quid's worth of tools just to make a box. Are you sure?


Hey...
I refrained from suggesting what would really be nice to have...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JonU said:


> Table saw w/ dado blade


that TS is going to need blades...


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## Greyghost(65) (Jan 14, 2013)

Stick you're a caution.(you don't work for a tool supply by any chance)


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

While that box could probably be done with a router (simple table would help), jig saw (for roughing the big openings), and a hand drill--Stick probably has a realistic list of what happens when one starts down the "slippery slope". He left out the sanders/scrapers. 

It's a great hobby, and probably cheaper than some hobby. Not sure which hobby, but there must be one!! 

Good luck on the box build!! That's a pretty intriguing idea--and there are a few woods that might add a pleasant odor for a while too...i'm thinking cherry with the heat from the power supply might be something of an air freshener for a few months. 

earl


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Woodworking may be cheaper than golf. My equipment is more expensive but it doesn't cost me $100 when I go to the shop for a round of woodworking. 

I would recommend you add a 5" random orbit sander to the list. I would also recommend that you get a copy of Tage Frid Teaches Woodworking. He was the first major contributor to Fine WoodWorking when they got started back in the 70s. Tage wrote a series of 3 books for them. You want the first one that covers joint making. It is the best how to woodworking book I've read by a wide margin. You can probably find it cheap on Amazon or eBay like I did.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

A good square and scale should be on the list.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Jon I'm liking the looks of your case idea and will be watching your progress . Very cool idea with the finger joints . Should look very sharp 

Those finger joints have been done with a dado blade on a TS . I'm sure I'd screw it up 10 times before I got it right though looking at how those joints go around the perimeter like that . The outcome is going to look awesome though . 
You'll need a router to do that inlay for the plexi glass , should be very easy . And as you say a drill .

I would cut the upper and lower holes on the case with a router , but depending on how you go about it I guess a jigsaw would help in certain situations , but you could get by without it if your over budget

You may need a swear jar too


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

And so is the whole megillah. To get started, seriously.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I don't think I seen clamps in the first posts . They may come in handy


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Since I was a Tradesman, I think of that from a different perspective... I think of it from the point of view of starting out as an apprentice and working your way up. Then there was times when my kit got stolen and I had to quickly rebuild a kit, to make a living, make money, to replace tools again (and again). And the first place I used to go was to a pawn shop. But anymore, you have to really dicker and know what prices run before going to a pawn shop (or end up paying more than new prices!!!)

Before anything, you need a basic set of hand tools. Without a good hammer, tape measure, square. Phillips and Straight Blade screw driver... what are you really going to do? There were things that I required apprentices, employees (and subs) to show up with. I made concessions to people that got their kit stolen... as I had personal experience with that... but I also had experience with what I thought was what I needed to survive on a jobsite from day to day.

First power tools, a circular saw and a rechargeable drill that can be used as a screw gun.

With that basic kit, you can do a lot of things. What goes along with that is a tool belt, apron or tool bucket. Needs to keep your tools portable, organised and near you to be used.

Just as the need for power tools went up, so did the need for other hand-tools, such as: nail sets, levels, wood chisels and a small plane.

Next step, a router and a jig saw. Then a miter saw. Most of my career, a good SCMS was my daily bread and butter on a jobsite. A router- when you need one, it's almost darn near impossible to do the same thing without one. Although not required, a jig saw can do a lot of things. Then a saws-all. Not required, but in that , if you have one, they are so versatile.

Next steps above that depend what you are doing, who you are working with or for, and your skill sets. Table saw, nailer's, air compressor. You can do without, but... Sometimes it just makes sense. Table saws used to be something a general contractor provided, then later, was considered a personal kit item.

One of the things I have to look at, is what is going to make you money and pay for itself. If you can't do something because you don't have the basic tools to do something well... Can you do it with what you have? If not, and you have exhausted ways to do something with what you have, then maybe you need to re-look at what you basic needs are. There is a lot of ways to do something... but even McGiver had that little multi-tool knife with him.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Part of being a woodworker is knowing what tools and machinery that YOU need. Not everyone does everything the same, or makes the same things. For instance, I rarely ever use a miter gauge on the table saw. I prefer to do most of my crosscuts with a compound miter saw. You won't find an expensive aftermarket miter gauge in my shop. Live and learn like the rest of us had to do, only you know what you need.


Agreed.

Now- as a woodworker and homeowner, those same principles apply. Don't throw money away on things that you can't afford or don't need yet.

Some things you can get by with. Some things are investments for the long-run. Some things, a basic level tool will get you far. Some things if you bought, you will quickly outgrow and loos money by replacing it to buy something better, that has more possibilities and will allow you to do more..

Sometimes I have to fight being impulsive and think about things smartly. Like-- I could do more... but do I really _need_ to?

I said my miter saw was the most used tool on on a jobsite... but my table saws are the most used in my shop. (More than my SCMS, SCM or RAS.) But, I'm guilty also. According to Sharon, with as much as I paid for my Panel saw, she thinks I should be using that thing for everything, every day. I told her it was something I wanted all my life and was a reward to myself. I think that sometimes, in the back of my mind, I sometimes do something with that, just because I can (and it is so easy with that)... and to justify to her that it's paying it's way.

On the miter gauge comment... I used to think that and built many sleds... Until I got one. That is one of those "I can do without", but faster, easier and more accurate setups with one.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Serious photography will cost you dearly! There's $8,000 worth that I am holding in my avatar. That doesn't include the second camera and other lenses and assorted gear. $20K easy.

Woodworking hobby is cheap entertainment and very fulfilling for me.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> Serious photography will cost you dearly! There's $8,000 worth that I am holding in my avatar. That doesn't include the second camera and other lenses and assorted gear. $20K easy.
> 
> Woodworking hobby is cheap entertainment and very fulfilling for me.


It's getting harder to even find film now. or someone to process it. 

I did that, but when it went to digital, I figured I could never afford to upgrade what I have with that. Sharon and I still have our camera's, lenses and what not, but layered with dust. 

Thinking maybe I should sell them. (Truthfully, selling those is out of my skill set).


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Hey guys, the thread was started by a confessed newbie.
The Source of Bad Writing - WSJ
What's with all the abbreviations?

Regarding film, the cameras are making a comeback but will never achieve the dominance they held before. Many of the lenses work with the digital bodies. Plan on mailing your film if you're rural.
Myself, I'm developing my own black and white and then scanning the neg. Next I'm going to medium format. Should be fun.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Greyghost(65) said:


> *Stick you're a caution*.(you don't work for a tool supply by any chance)


Caution???
no I don't work for any tool companies or suppliers ...
nor do I get any kickbacks...


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET-INTO WOODWORKING....The above ideas are great, but IF YOU AREN'T, any cabinet shop can make these parts for you.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> *Serious photography will cost you dearly*!
> 
> Woodworking hobby is cheap entertainment and very fulfilling for me.


you got that right...
started with the F1/2, D4, FTB and SRT series (circa mid/late 60's)... 
Yashica 120 format and plate cameras...

found the OM-1/1n (circa '72?) and redundantly ran the gambit through to the OM-4T..
macro, micro macro, bellows, extreme long lenses, and, and ,and, and.... 
then came the lab... 
now it's the E5...

add fishing to the list..
and wife got addicted to sailing...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rwl7532 said:


> Hey guys, the thread was started by a confessed newbie.
> 
> What's with all the abbreviations?


TS for Table Saw???


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> TS for Table Saw???


..my SCMS, SCM or RAS...
I haven't figured out the SCM yet.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

centering ruler and tape measures appear to have been left out....


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

JonU said:


> Hey guys, I'm pretty new to woodworking and don't really have any tools to speak of. I'm looking at starting a project around the December/January. I'm planning on making a computer case from wood and for the most part it should be pretty simple cuts. If you look at the picture below, you can get a pretty good idea about the types of cuts I'll need to make.Here is what I'm thinking will be the bare minimum I'll need to do this project:
> 
> Router
> Jigsaw
> ...


Getting back to the original post, I think a table saw would be a great item to purchase. There are several portable style table saws that can be stored out of the way. After using one of the old Craftsman saws for several years, I bought a 3 hp Grizzly cabinet saw. It will outlast me and maybe someone else. I use it almost every day.

Note: Before you buy a table saw, make sure it will accept a stacked dado blade. Some do and others don't.

Take some time and search You tube for table saw uses. There are many.
Also, check out Ron Paulk's videos. He is a custom home builder and designer. He has numerous videos of portable work tables that are easy to set up and incorporate a portable table saw, miter saw and a built in for a router. His plans are cheap and his videos provide a lot of construction details. With a set up similar to his, you could get hooked into woodworking for a long time. 

To cut the opening in your box for the glass, a jig saw can be used to rough cut the interior waste away. Just stay inside the line by 1/8 - 1/4 inch. Then, use double sided tape to attach some 1/2 inch mdf strips so they outline the mark for the inner portion of the opening. Use a router with a flush trim bit to cut a clean rectangular opening. A router such as the Dewalt Compact 1 1/4hp router would be perfect for this. The plunge base will make it easy to start/stop your cuts. Other routers with more hp are a little bigger and have the capability to do more. I have a Bosch 1617EVSPK that will do just about anything use ask of it, including cutting raised panels for doors. See pic below of the Bosch used to cut half blind dovetails for drawers.


Once your opening has been cut, reposition the mdf strips so you can cut the recessed rabbit for your glass to sit in. This is where the plunge base really shines because you can set the depth adjustment, turn it on and plunge the bit to make a safe cut. Again, search YouTube for examples.

Since the router cuts a rounded corner, you will need a sharp chisel to clean out the corners.

I use Titebond original glue for most of my projects. Once the joints have been glued and the glue has dried, it will not fail at the joint, the wood around it might break, but not the glue joint.

I have also used several nailers purchased at Harbor Freight. I still use a 15 gauge nailer, but I replaced the 18 gauge nailer/stapler combo. It shoots 18 ga nails and 1/4 inch staples with no problem. But the hammer is wider so it can drive the staple so it leaves an indention when it drives the nail. I didn't like that so I now use a pair of Bostitch tools, the 18 ga brad nailer and the 3/32 inch crown stapler. They have been flawless for several years.

Drills and drivers - I have three Dewalt 12 volt cordless tools, two drills and an impact driver. These work really well and the batteries last a long time. I know more powerful tools are on the market, but these do everything I ask of them. I don't know how I made it so long without an impact driver. I also have a Ryobi 14.4 volt cordless drill. It is heavy compared to the smaller Dewalt's and the batteries don't last. I have replaced them several times over the years. They are on their last leg. I will throw the whole mess away pretty soon.

Table saw, jig saw, router, chisel, drill/driver and glue will get most of the job done. And clamps. You can never have too many clamps. I have used the bar clamps from Harbor Freight and their "f" style clamps. Other types include pipe clamps and the larger (and more expensive) parallel style clamps.


Hope you get some useful tips and ideas from my rambling.
Good luck.
Mike

Here are a few pics to go along with the story.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rwl7532 said:


> ..my SCMS, SCM or RAS...
> I haven't figured out the SCM yet.


SCMS - Sliding Compound Miter Saw...
RAS - Radial Arm Saw..
SCM	- Senior Citizen Moment or a typo...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Seriously guys; that computer case is way too complex for someone just starting out.
If Jon had a knowledgeable instructor working with him, it'd still be a challenge.
Every piece of that case, and every operation to do it, is/are a separate chapter in the learning curve. 
Jon; I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but I am warning you ahead of time that this is no weekend project for a newbie. Stick's essay on working with thin wood was your 'canary in the mineshaft'...


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

SCM- Smith Corona Marchant; made typewriters and during wartime, made rifles. Did I miss something? Another SCM in the real sense? I didn't see credit card with high limit mentioned anywhere. Seriously, I started out with some of the basic tools and added as I could afford them or needed them.
If SWMBO criticizes for all the tools you own, take an inventory of dresses, purses, and shoes, and present it to her.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Seriously guys; *that computer case is way too complex for someone just starting out.*
> If Jon had a knowledgeable instructor working with him, it'd still be a challenge.
> Every piece of that case, and every operation to do it, is/are a separate chapter in the learning curve.
> Jon; I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but I am warning you ahead of time that this is no weekend project for a newbie. *Stick's essay* on working with thin wood was your 'canary in the mineshaft'...


no it's not...
there's plenty of plan "B's"...

Essay??? I wrote one on this???


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The OP (original poster) has probably been frightened away by now guys.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The OP (original poster) has probably been frightened away by now guys.


I doubt it. Likely out buying some tools.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rwl7532 said:


> I doubt it. Likely out buying some tools.


agreed...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes it is, Stick. You're looking backwards from a very high knowledge level (yourself0 and forgetting how many decades it took you to achieve that, Not to mention how technology has changed dramatically.
Just learning how to use a tablesaw safely accurately, and with consistent quality results, is a major hurdle. Less so with a competent on site mentor.
How many members here are the product of apprenticeships?
Small easily achievable projects give confidence and satisfaction; a major project requiring in-depth knowledge of several different powertools and techniques, isn't likely to lead to either a finished project or a continuing interest in woodworking.
Re the 'essay' quip; no insult intended, Stick. I was merely suggesting that you packed a LOT of info into that post. For someone with no prior knowledge, it may have been overwhelming. Not that everything you said wasn't spot on.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Yes it is, Stick. You're looking backwards from a very high knowledge level (yourself0 and forgetting how many decades it took you to achieve that, Not to mention how technology has changed dramatically.
> Just learning how to use a tablesaw safely accurately, and with consistent quality results, is a major hurdle. Less so with a competent on site mentor.
> How many members here are the product of apprenticeships?
> Small easily achievable projects give confidence and satisfaction; a major project requiring in-depth knowledge of several different power tools and techniques, isn't likely to lead to either a finished project or a continuing interest in woodworking.
> Re the 'essay' quip; no insult intended, Stick. I was merely suggesting that you packed a LOT of info into that post. For someone with no prior knowledge, it may have been overwhelming. Not that everything you said wasn't spot on.


got it...
point well taken...
sometimes when I explain things .. all I get back is a "deer in the headlights look"...

now about that beer, and don't give me that "deer in the headlights look" either...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

which post Dan???


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Jon,

Your post has been side tracked slightly.

To get back to your original question.

Router - yes
Jigsaw - yes (and coping saw)
Table saw w/ dado blade - not NECESSARY - but will come in handy later if you continue woodworking... 
Plane - yes
Small chisel - yes, buy a set
drill press with countersinks for the holes I need to drill for mounting radiators and what not. - a hand drill ( corded or battery will do).

We all tend to forget where we started in woodworking.

Also, as mentioned, clamps and other bits and pieces will help....

As you are new to wood working, please keep in mind that the end result is not as simple as it looks from the picture, if you you find a wood working class that would help more than a tool list.

You will need to take your time. measure once cut twice.........LOL


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## JonU (Oct 3, 2014)

You guys haven't scared me away yet! I've just been busy all weekend getting things ready to pack. I realized when I was putting it together on the screen it was going to be a bit of an advanced project. I'll be getting a normal case while I get some practice with the woodworking. I really appreciate the words of advice all of you have given. I'm working on compiling a list of all the tools mentioned and start looking around. I honestly had forgotten about the simple things like the carpenters square and the other little items that get used as much if not more than the actual power tools. It's going to be a little while before I have a chance to get started since I'm moving cross country later this week, but I'll keep you guys informed on my progress. I should also mention that some of you guys have got me motivated to do this. I may tear up a lot of wood in the process, but I really want to do it. My other question is concerning the type of wood to use for the final project. I plan on using cheap wood from home depot or Lowes to get practice on and learning how to make the cuts I'll need. Then once I'm comfortable with my ability to get the results I would get some of the nice stuff. In that picture, I used material presets for Ash and Mahogany. I really do like the two tone look and was wondering if anyone has some recommendations on two woods that complement each other. I wish I had someone who could help teach me and if anyone around the SE Tennessee area would be willing to help teach me I'm all ears.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

stop in some place that sells a lot of different woods, stand back and look...
you'll know it when you see it...

if you use poplar as your test wood, take some of the pieces and stain them with different wood tone stains......
you just may surprise yourself...

I can feel it in my bones...
you'll do well...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I used maple and walnut to make a couple of cutting boards.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I like your two tone wood idea Jon , that's what's going to make it look Epic! . Wish you lived close to me as I'd give you the key to the shop , as I like computer related projects and am looking forward to seeing you complete this


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

As Red Green says, Jon, "We're all in this together." 
Good luck with the move, eh!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lmao!
Welding Wood
You'll have some great wood choices in Tn., Jon! 
(I read that piece and my eyes glazed over)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Oh: Deer*

:laugh:...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

daninvan said:


> :laugh:...


*snork!!!!*


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## Sawdust 703 (Jul 19, 2014)

Well Mr. Jon, I don't consider myself a professional woodworker, but, have been in your shoes a number of years ago. These fellas have given ya good advice. One valuable lesson I learned when I got into woodworking, don't invest in tools ya don't need at the moment. Don't misunderstand me, tools are always a good investment, but in the beginning, funds are short, space is small, wood is expensive, well, you get the idea. You can do a lot with just a few basic tools until you can afford to build your tool arsenal a little at a time. A good square, pencil, tape measure, circular saw, jig saw, router & a few bits, sander & little sand paper, a good hand saw wouldn't hurt, a hand plane, electric drill & a few bits, & and for now, a good hammer. When you buy fasteners, buy what you can afford, not what's the most expensive. You can get your cordless drills, drill press, saw blades, & all that as you go along. Make sure this is what you enjoy before you drop a ton a money into tools you have no use for. All this has already been mentioned, but some forget that a few of us started out like you, Sir. Without a Mentor, or any kind of teacher but reading & doing. Another piece of advice I'd like to pass on to you, if you don't mind. Consider your interests before you begin to buy tools. What do you want make or design? There are lots of directions you can take your wood working skills, and the tools you purchase will help to hone every aspect of your skills & abilities if used safely & properly. Good luck on your move, Sir, & enjoy your projects. & remember to work safely!!


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

I'm trying to think back to what I bought when I first got started.

I think I already had a mains-powered drill for jobs around the house. A cordless drill is very convenient, but if it's your only drill make sure it's a good one, with a 2- or 3-speed gearbox and capable of at least 1200rpm. If you have a corded drill for when you need speed and power, then a cheap cordless is a good supplement to it for smaller jobs and screw driving.

My first project was bookcases made from plywood, so the first new powertool I bought was a circular saw. If you're going to be working with sheet materials, you'll want a table saw or a circular saw. I bought a cheap circular saw with a pressed steel base, and looking back I wish I'd bought a better one. A rigid, accurately-machined sole plate and precise adjustment mechanisms give cleaner and squarer cuts.

My second new powertool was a router. Again I bought cheap, and in this case it was OK (maybe I was lucky). I used that router for years. It was fiddly and time-consuming to make accurate adjustments, but it could be done, and it cut just fine. In terms of bits, I reckon 99% of the routing on my early projects used only these: 1/2" straight, 1/4" straight, 3/8" round-over, 1/4" roundover, chamfer, and a flush-trim.

3rd would be a sander. In my case it was a basic Bosch 1/3 sheet orbital, which I still use. I've had good luck with Bosch sanders.

Hand tools: a try-square, tape measure, a couple of chisels, a back saw, hammer, utility knife, some F-clamps and quick-action clamps. Plus a couple of folding workbenches for support.
In the case of squares, chisels and saws, I think it's worth buying a little bit above the cheapest end of the market, even when starting out. Go for something basic from a reputable brand name. You'll need some method of sharpening the chisels.

Believe it or not I never bought a jigsaw until this year, and now I can hardly imagine how I got by without it, so that's also worth considering as a starter tool.

Stuff I bought early on, and wished I never had: there was the cheap circular saw mentioned above. And a hand mitre saw a bit like this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pike-Co-Compound-Mitre-Saw/dp/B007S8FJVW - I could never get a square cut with that. Later I switched to a plastic miter box with a tenon saw, which was a bit better but still not good enough. Now I usually just mark the piece all round with a knife, hold it on a bench hook and follow the line by eye. Cheaper, simpler and the result is better too. Powered mitre saws come fairly cheap these days though, I'd buy one yesterday if I had a place to keep it.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

JonU said:


>


That style of edge joints is one I've seen before on CNC-made projects. If the design is intended to be produced by CNC, you could save a lot of money on tools and a lot of time by finding a CNC shop to cut the pieces for you.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Excellent perspective on getting started, Andy. 
_'Well done, That Man'... _


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## JonU (Oct 3, 2014)

I've been thinking about the space required for all the different power tools and have come to a conclusion. I just won't have the space for them; so I'm going to try finding a carpenter in the Chattanooga area that can make a majority of the cuts for me. I'll do the final fit and finishing myself, but the big stuff like making the joints and the cutouts I'll have done for me. In addition to not having the space, buying the various tools would be putting me way way over budget.


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## JonU (Oct 3, 2014)

AndyL said:


> That style of edge joints is one I've seen before on CNC-made projects. If the design is intended to be produced by CNC, you could save a lot of money on tools and a lot of time by finding a CNC shop to cut the pieces for you.


I might actually have access to a CNC machine once I get to Chattanooga, but that remains to be seen.


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## Fraise (May 19, 2012)

For that box, a knife, a square, two saws and a chisel. ;-)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Fraise said:


> For that box, a knife, a square, two saws and a chisel. ;-)


LMAO!!!

Sorry = Saw this post this AM and it hit me as like-> "I can name that tune it..."


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