# Router Bit Extension



## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

I'm looking into buying the MLCS Router Bit extension for both the 1/4" and 1/2" bits. Does anyone have this product, and what do you think of it. I want to be able to changes bits on my router table from above. I also want to be sure that it works and it's safe. Looking forward to your opinion.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Rolf

I have both and they work great 

They can also be used to chuck up the bits to remove the bearing and cutters in the vise..


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rmaxa said:


> I'm looking into buying the MLCS Router Bit extension for both the 1/4" and 1/2" bits. Does anyone have this product, and what do you think of it. I want to be able to changes bits on my router table from above. I also want to be sure that it works and it's safe. Looking forward to your opinion.


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Hi Bob, I assume you done have any issues with vibration? 


P.S. Why am I not seeing you as logged in. Just curious.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rmaxa

"vibration? " Yes, they spin true at 20,000 rpm.. unlike the one with the set screw in the side of the holder..

" Why am I not seeing you as logged in. Just curious" = I have it taged as hidden most of the time.. 

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rmaxa said:


> Hi Bob, I assume you done have any issues with vibration?
> 
> 
> P.S. Why am I not seeing you as logged in. Just curious.


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Interesting feature. Thanks, I'm going to order both the extensions.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Rolf

I'm sure you will like them ,,,they are great 
I'm sure you saw the 1 1/16" wrench in the picture you will need to make one,you can use a standard wrench but they are LONG and not cheap,,,the easy way is to find one at the flea market/garage sale/pawn shop,etc. that's called a stamped out type ( that come with many power tools) and then just grind it out to the 1 1/16" size, then you will have one that's about 7" long that will fit under the router table or in the box with the other parts for the router table..

Most come with a hole in one end and it makes a good place for a key ring to keep both wrenchs one place...I use the quick snap type key ring..for the set I have..(18mm and the 1 1/16" ) I aslo made one out of a cheap metric wrench ,it's ok but the stamped out type works best...it's thin and can get right into the flats on the Extension....

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rmaxa said:


> Interesting feature. Thanks, I'm going to order both the extensions.


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Thanks Bob, I just ordered the set. I'm looking forward to being able to change bits from the top of my table.


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

I got the set of extensions, I now understand why Bob was telling me to make the wrenches. I assumed they came with the set. I should read more and relay less on pictures. Thanks Bob.

P.S. I going to fun these on my router table.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Rolf, when you have tried the extensions would you please post you're impressions because as I have mentioned in the past, I have the CMT 1/2" one and am not happy with the vibration so only use it when there is no alternative.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

If I recall you tried it in your well used Makita Plunge Router ,,,Have you try it in your new router in the router table ?

Or better yet chuck it up in the Lathe and put a dial indicator on it to see if the one you have is made true, that's what I did when I got them just to make sure it was going to run true.. 

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> If I recall you tried it in your well used Makita Plunge Router ,,,Have you try it in your new router in the router table ?
> 
> ...


True Bj, I have only used it in my well used but quite perfect Makita 3612C because I can't imagine a situation in the table where an extension would be required. When I remember I shall do as you suggest and spin it in the lathe with a dial indicator and report back.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Rolf,

I'm with Bob on this one. The MLCS extension works well and is reasonably priced. However, locating a 18mm collet (flat) wrench has been impossible for me, so I make do with a cheap little adjustable wrench that just barely works. As you can tell, I mount the bit in the extension, then mount the extension in the router collet. It works, but I doubt that I will ever table mount another plunge router.

A secondary issue is the lack of a self release feature for the extension collet. When new, you may have to "tap" your router bits to get the extension collet to release. With use, this annoyance disappears. According to MLCS, it's SOP for these units.

TTG


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Thanks Harry & TTG, I'm going to try them this weekend, if my wife gives me 5 minutes. I'll post my experiences. 

TTG, did you try Bob's solution to the wrench problem and make one?


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

rmaxa said:


> Thanks Harry & TTG, I'm going to try them this weekend, if my wife gives me 5 minutes. I'll post my experiences.
> 
> TTG, did you try Bob's solution to the wrench problem and make one?


Not yet. It's a non-standard metric size and I've been too cheap to buy a single 18mm wrench from Sears or Snap-on and grind the faces to the desired thickness. Opening the jaws on a 17mm wrench is possible, but cutting the jaws parallel is a challenge (for me). I've been hoping to find some other tool that uses this odd size wrench and order a replacement wrench. Typically, the replacement part prices for those items aren't too bad.

I did contact MLCS about this issue and they are "thinking" about offering some flat wrenches for the collet extension. However, they don't have suggestions at this time for locating wrenches. In my opinion, MLCS could easily resolve this dilemma by increasing the height of flats to accommodate a standard thickness wrench or using a 17mm jaw width.

TTG


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi TTG

You don't need to grind the face of the wrench,the standard wrench will work just fine but the big one 1 1/16 size is a bit big,,,that's why it's best to find one of the stamped out ones,,they are thin the norm...and are short by design...grinding them out to the right size is easy just slip it over the grinding wheel and open it up just a bit..about a 2 min.job, just don't let it get to hot by the grinding.. 
........

The 18mm wrench is a good one to buy new and buy a good one, because they now use 15mm/18mm fastners all over the new cars and trucks now days, the stubby ones will come in handy for may jobs...  not just the bit extensions...

The one for the 1 1/16 can be had cheap by picking up one of the cheap metric 23mm wrench and just rework just a bit...about a 5 min. job..
Or you can send off one like the ones below for 15.oo bucks

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/search.asp?p=1&w=&c=wrench&t=s


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Bob,

Out of curiousity, which of the car companies are using 18mm bolts? A 17mm wrench matches a M10 hex head bolt/nut, while a 19mm wrench drives a M12 bolt/nut. For this reason, 18mm wrenches are not usually found in those multi-wrench sets.

A 18mm head bolt indicates a unique design that one will come to love in future years when parts are no longer available. 

TTG


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi TTG

USA made and Foreign made cars and trucks are all using them now,,and your right they don't come in the standard wrench/socket sets...the norm, 15mm and the 18mm are some what new items in the last 10 years or so...slip under your car or truck and take your 19mm and 14mm, 16mm and your 17mm wrenchs/sockets with you and see how many botls they don't fit...you can also pop the hood and do the same thing...

19mm same as a 3/4" size 

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

After buying my collet extension, I checked every tool store in town for a 27mm spanner without success, so this is how I made one.

Whilst still on the subject, I did the test which you suggested Bj, but I'm not sure what, if anything it proves. Whilst I have no formal training in mechanical engineering, I know that if a work-piece is removed from the chuck then refitted, the chances of perfect concentricity are remote, that being the case, consider the three variables, router, collet extension and cutter, all made on different machines, wouldn't we expect there to be some run-out, the important question is HOW MUCH is within "industry Standards"?


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Harry,

The collet nut is 27mm and the shaft flats are 18mm. I have no doubt that you had hard time finding a 27mm wrench. How did you do on locating a 18mm wrench?

Relative to your experiment, the real world demonstration would be to leave the indicator mounted in position and remove/install the collet extension or the carbide cutter to determine the repeatability/accuracy of your lathe chuck. I would assume that you'll exceed 0.001" (or 0.025mm as you Australian's are supposed to say). Now, that is the accuracy of your lathe chuck. Do you think that a router shaft & collet will be more accurate than your lathe chuck? I doubt it, but that is my opinion.

Assuming that you checked and zeroed the collet extension shaft runout, your experiment did indicate that, at the measurement planes, the collet extension introduces only 0.001" of runout. Considering that one is dealing with tolerances of the collet extension shaft, internal cone and collet insert, that is pretty darn good for a $25 item.

TTG


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Harry

That's a good post now chuck it up in the Makita and do the same thing, to see what the run out is on the router table ...




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harrysin said:


> After buying my collet extension, I checked every tool store in town for a 17mm spanner without success, so this is how I made one.
> 
> Whilst still on the subject, I did the test which you suggested Bj, but I'm not sure what, if anything it proves. Whilst I have no formal training in mechanical engineering, I know that if a work-piece is removed from the chuck then refitted, the chances of perfect concentricity are remote, that being the case, consider the three variables, router, collet extension and cutter, all made on different machines, wouldn't we expect there to be some run-out, the important question is HOW MUCH is within "industry Standards"?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"that is pretty darn good for a $25 item."

How about $69.00, it's a CMT

Note my edit, it should have been 27mm not 17mm!

Bj, there's no point in my checking it in the table because I can't imagine a safe situation where the extension could or should be used in the table. Bear in mind that I can deep rout with a 3" X 1\2" cutter in plunge mode without any excessive noise, but using the extension, as I did when routing a box from solid as demonstrated on the forum, I did not like the additional noise produced. Perhaps sometime I may try it with a new router, but at age 74 I don't want to start collecting too many routers as you have been doing Bj!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thrifty Tool Guy said:


> Harry,
> 
> The collet nut is 27mm and the shaft flats are 18mm. I have no doubt that you had hard time finding a 27mm wrench. How did you do on locating a 18mm wrench?
> 
> ...


As I mentioned in previous post I should have said 27mm. As for the 18mm, a 7/16" Whitworth is a perfect fit. I totally agree with you that 0.001" run-out for the extension sounds excellent and would expect the router to have a far greater error. My lathe is imperial as is my milling collet set and of course my end mills and slot cutters, hence the fact that I'm multi-lingual!!!!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Good points BUT
"I can't imagine a safe situation where the extension could or should be used"

It's not one of the items you and I use all the time but
Many pull the bit up and out of the collet to far,and that can be unsafe ..and the extension can make it a safe way to do the job,,,  

One more point ,,,it may not spin dead on but at 10,000 to 20,000 rpms I don't think it would be a big deal.. .001 is not to much for run out error I sure many router bits at the same way...if not more..  like round over bit,rabbit bits and so on,,,I have not checked the bits I have for run out error and I may not want to,,, LOL one thing I don't need to put in my head , just as long they do the work I ask of them...

one small note ,,,I look at it like a socket bar extension , you don't need it all the time but when you do you have it in the tool box... 



"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator



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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

harrysin said:


> As for the 18mm, a 7/16" Whitworth is a perfect fit.


Whitworth dimensions .............. You are speaking in the tongue of the Devil, my friend! I bet you have some Lucas electrics?


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Harry,

Excuse my error on the price. MLCS sells the 1/2" unit for $25 (free shipping) in the US. They also sell the 1/4" and 1/2" units together for $40. 

TTG


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Ok, I installed the 1/2" collet, and found out to every important facts. 1. The router bits will not come out easy. It took me 10 minutes with all kinds of tools. 2. Most of my bits will not work because my router (PC 7518) will have to be bottomed out to get the bottom of the bit flush with the table. I can see using a straight bit, but I can't see using any bit that has a profile.
I was hoping I could use the extensions for locking down the bit from the top of the table. Doesn't look like I'll be able to do that using the extensions.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Yes, the extensions are most useful on plunge routers. If you really want to use the extensions, I'll trade my Dewalt 625 for your PC 7518

The collet isn't self-releasing, so the bit tend to "stick" when the extension is new. However, that does pass with use.


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Sorry Thrifty Tool Guy, I already have the Dewalt 625. I hope I will get enough use of them before they stop sticking.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

The bit will stick a bit when the tool is new,,,but you can just remove the collet nut all the way and just tap the bit on a block of wood and it will come right out.


Or you can make a quick remove tool like I did (hardwood), see below, works quick and easy.

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thrifty Tool Guy said:


> Whitworth dimensions .............. You are speaking in the tongue of the Devil, my friend! I bet you have some Lucas electrics?



Whilst Australia turned Metric in 1966, Whitworth threads are still readily available, not so are the spanners, one has to search for them.

Lucas Electrical, what memories I have from my early motoring days, cleaning and adjusting the contacts on the regulator, they were doing fine until Mr. Bosch appeared on the scene. By all accounts, Lucas are still big in the after market area of automotive electrics, at least in the UK.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Rolf, the next time you buy a new router, make it a Triton, the collet rises above the table for easy cutter change, and in this position the shaft is locked and the power is off.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rmaxa

It comes down to the right tool for the job,,, the offset wrench will do the trick..
I use it (them) all the time...  even on the big panel bits ...

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/search.asp?p=1&w=&c=wrench&t=s
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=wr001&d=159&b=2


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rmaxa said:


> Ok, I installed the 1/2" collet, and found out to every important facts. 1. The router bits will not come out easy. It took me 10 minutes with all kinds of tools. 2. Most of my bits will not work because my router (PC 7518) will have to be bottomed out to get the bottom of the bit flush with the table. I can see using a straight bit, but I can't see using any bit that has a profile.
> I was hoping I could use the extensions for locking down the bit from the top of the table. Doesn't look like I'll be able to do that using the extensions.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Lucas Electrical, what memories I have from my early motoring days, cleaning and adjusting the contacts on the regulator, they were doing fine until Mr. Bosch appeared on the scene. By all accounts, Lucas are still big in the after market area of automotive electrics, at least in the UK.


Aah, Lucas Electrics... the Prince of Darkness, as anyone who has ever ridden a British motorcycle knows!! 

Brian


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Brian

I had two of the 1969 BSA 650's and a 1968 Norton , great bikes  they would but my Yamaha hahaha 650 max to shame.. 


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I always knew that you were a man of impeccable taste Bj.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Brian,

Relative to british bikes, I think nostalga is winning the battle with reality. Best to take cover an let it blow over. 

TTG


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