# Table Saw - struggling with this. Could use advice



## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

You've probably read my table saw shopping post. If not here's the reader's digest version.
Got a new Ridgid R4512. All set up. Issue with alignment when raising vs lowering the blade. The saw blade moves to the right when raising, Moves back to the left when lowering.

The saw is perfectly aligned to the miter slot when the blade has been lowered, even just a tiny bit. I mean no more than .001 difference front to back and to the best I'm able to measure, it's less than .001.

When you raise the blade it moves to the right. 

How much?

With the blade all the way up (not against the stops. Raise to the stop, lower it 4 turns on the crank, raise it back up 2 turns), the back has moved to the right by 12 thousandths and the front has moved 5 thousandths.

With the blade down where I'd be using it to cut 3/4 inch plywood I have far less blade exposed so the measurement locations on the blade are pretty close together. At this height I see about .004 of movement. Difference between front and back nearly unmeasurable. Maybe .001. 

I'm struggling with whether to take it apart and take it back to Home Depot and exchange it for another one OR wait until the weather breaks and take it apart and take it in to a service center to have it repaired under warranty. I just got this saw and really like it and having never had a saw this GOOD, I'm trying to decide if I'm just being anal. 

My brain says...
At full extension we're talking about slightly less than 1/64 of an inch. At the height I'll primarily be using it we're talking about way less than 1/128 of an inch. In fact, closer to 1/256 of an inch. AND, as long as I remember to simply back the height adjust wheel off enough to take pressure off the threads, it's in perfect alignment.

What would *YOU* do? Would you take it apart now and try to exchange it for another one (assuming THAT one doesn't have an issue) or would you use it like it is and see if you want to take it apart when the weather warms up and take it to a service center for repair covered under warranty. 

I've already spoken to Ridgid and they tell me it'll be a covered repair. The supervisor told me he had only seen this on one other saw. I've read about it on the internet indicating that several people have had this problem. 

Home Depot is willing to get the other one they have unboxed, put the blade and crank handle on it, and check it, and if it's ok they said we can just swap the top half so I don't have to pack up the rest of the saw. Just bring in my top half (table and upper cabinet piece) and keep my fence, rails, wings, etc because I know they're good. I would be able to go in and check it WITH them because I know exactly what I'm looking for. 

A dial indicator is a really handy item to have, but I am afraid I'm being anal about the numbers. Are they too small to be concerned with? Also this saw is sitting in an unheated shop. I heat it when I work in it, but otherwise, it's cold. Might this "tighten up" when the weather warms up?

I'd really like to hear from you guys for some advice on this.
Thanks,


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Exchange. Rent the truck for $20 and haul the whole thing back if you have to.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Cocheseuga said:


> Exchange. Rent the truck for $20 and haul the whole thing back if you have to.


I can move it in my van no problem. It's getting it TO the van that's going to be a bit dicey. I can't drive to the shop. I have to haul the saw over snow-covered yard about 100 feet to get to the driveway. AND I have to get help manhandling the table. I can move it. It's just going to be a hassle. Kinda taking the fun out of getting a new saw.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

I would return it if there is a defect. I don't think anybody at Home Depot is a qualified technician unless they have been certified by Ridgid to make repairs.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

take it back no body at home depot is a repair man they wouldn't look at it any way. Why have it repaired ?? it is new and should work like new out of the box with a few adjustment's. Be sure and regester it . You have to send in a recept and the upc for the lifetime warrenty . Read and you will see that good luck


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Sound to me like your expecting a lot out of a top-mounted trunion system and a cheap saw. If your really looking for those kind of tolerances in your saw you need to upgrade to a better grade of saw, mainly a cabinet base mounted trunion. The small amount of runout that you having occur is primarly due to the fact its a top mounted trunion. I think its negligible anyways as a small amount of sanding would take out anything that your complaining about here. even the 1/64th is so small its negligible. Try upgrading to a cabinet saw if you want cabinet style cutting otherwise I would expect exactly what you getting from about any top mounted trunnion saw in that price range. Not trying to start a war just reality checking in.

P.S. If Ridgid did indicate to you that this has occured in other saws as you indicate I would call the HD you purchased it at and have them call the Ridgid rep and explain your moving situation to them and see if the rep can come to your house to do an inspection and replacement . Ridgid is usually pretty good with this kind of stuff and might even be able to solve the problem itself, Also have you checked the blade for flatness as well?,Tommy


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Sound to me like your expecting a lot out of a top-mounted trunion system and a cheap saw. If your really looking for those kind of tolerances in your saw you need to upgrade to a better grade of saw, mainly a cabinet base mounted trunion. The small amount of runout that you having occur is primarly due to the fact its a top mounted trunion. I think its negligible anyways as a small amount of sanding would take out anything that your complaining about here. even the 1/64th is so small its negligible. Try upgrading to a cabinet saw if you want cabinet style cutting otherwise I would expect exactly what you getting from about any top mounted trunnion saw in that price range. Not trying to start a war just reality checking in.
> 
> P.S. If Ridgid did indicate to you that this has occured in other saws as you indicate I would call the HD you purchased it at and have them call the Ridgid rep and explain your moving situation to them and see if the rep can come to your house to do an inspection and replacement . Ridgid is usually pretty good with this kind of stuff and might even be able to solve the problem itself, Also have you checked the blade for flatness as well?,Tommy


Yes, checked blade for flatness and also checked arbor runnout. Blade is flat and arbor runout less than .001. When this movement occurs, it appears the entire main trunnion is moving. It's not the arbor shaft. The pivot point would have to be forward of the blade edge in order to see .005 at the front and .012 at the back with both being in the same direction. 

And your mention of (basically), "what kind of tolerance do you expect from a $500 saw?" does not offend me in the least. It addresses my question and is exactly the input I'm looking for. It addresses the "am I just being too picky?" question because I don't KNOW what to expect from this class of saw. 

Not sure if this was clear but nobody at Home Depot is going to fix this. That was never a consideration. If it gets repaired, it would be at the Ridgid authorized service center which is about a 90 minute drive for me. 

And again... if I simply relax the pressure on the height adjust by backing off the height adjust wheel in a downward direction.... don't even have to really lower the blade, just take pressure OFF of the UP direction.... then the saw is perfectly aligned and it really cuts beautifully, even with the stock blade. My Onsrud blades arrive today and I have a zero clearance insert waiting. 

It's a matter of exchanging it now (assuming the other one they have is ok and doesn't have some OTHER issue or this same one) OR... wait and take it into an authorized service center in a few months. 

If the other one at Home depot has this issue, then the decision is made FOR me.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Charlie, Call HD corporate HQ in Atlanta and ask to speak with a customer service rep. Explain whats going on with your saw and I would venture to say that they will contact the HD where you purchased it and either have someone come out with the replacement saw or better yet they'll call a Ridgid rep and have one come out to your home. Also call Ridgid themselves and explain to them whats going on with HD and you and see what they'll do about it. Have you retightened the bolts holding the trunions to the top of the table, as I recall they bolt directly to the steel top,not the side pieces and that may be the issue if those bolts are loose or improperly adjusted. Your right I wasn't saying anything bad about the saw in general thats just the nature of the beast in trunnions not mounted to the cabinet vs table mounted. Hope ya get it straightened out if not pm me with all the info ,I'm here in Atl and I'll see what I can do,Tommy


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

"just take pressure OFF of the UP direction"

What exactly are you referring to when you say take pressure off.You only need to have the proper height you need to make the cut with maybe an 1/8-1/4 inch more to come thru the surface of the lumber your cutting ,What exactly are you tightening down and how are you doing it?


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> "just take pressure OFF of the UP direction"
> 
> What exactly are you referring to when you say take pressure off.You only need to have the proper height you need to make the cut with maybe an 1/8-1/4 inch more to come thru the surface of the lumber your cutting ,What exactly are you tightening down and how are you doing it?


Taking the pressure off means I crank the handle up to a given height and then instead of simply taking my hand off the wheel, I turn it the other direction just a bit, so the lead screw is no longer putting pressure on the rack.

I think I've decided to take this saw back, much as I hate to move it again. I called the authorized service center that Ridgid gave me and they said, "Yeah we don't work on Ridgid any more. They scre**d us out of several hundred dollars and now they won't take us off their list." So that means there's no service center near me. I called Ridgid again and they're not being helpful or sympathetic. 

SO... I think I'm gonna just bite the bullet here and pack this thing up and take it back to Home Depot and get a refund.

THEN.... I just got off the phone with a local place that stocks Steel City table saws. I can get the 35990C or 35990G for $649. That's about $200 more than I paid for the Ridgid, but this other place is also authorized service for Steel City and only about 25 minutes away.

I'm not happy about moving the Ridgid again, and I'm not happy about having to spend another $200 over what's already been approved by She Who Must Be Obeyed, but I'm not seeing any other options that make sense. It sure doesn't make sense to keep telling myself that there's nothing seriously wrong with the Ridgid just because I don't want to move it. The Steel City has cabinet mounted trunions and while I'm not sure of the "T Square Fence", it just overall looks to be a bit better saw. If I get wife approval, I'll have to decide between granite and cast iron. I hear lots of plus and minus about the granite, but being in a mostly unheated shop it may have advantages in not rusting. Cast Iron and Granite being the same price..... not sure. And it doesn't look like the Steel City has any kind of lift system and if I do buy it, there's nothing in the budget for any kind of mobile base. So I'd have to shove it around if I needed to move it.

Trial and tribulations..... I had looked forward to this being fun and right now it's not.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Hey Charlie, I have a Ridgid 4511,one of the last great saws Ridgid made w/granite top. I have considered getting the Steel City myself (don't know why the Ridgid works great). I would like to suggest a way to possibly do this for yourself. Home Depot now sells online the Steel City saws ,35990C 10 in. Cast Iron Contractor Table Saw-35990C at The Home Depot city table saw&storeId=10051 as well as Lowes, Shop STEEL CITY 1.5-HP 10" Table Saw at Lowes.com model you are talking about as well as the granite top. I would tend to shy away from the granite unless you live in a very humid part of the country as the steel will rust unless properly cared for. Now I would suggest you call HD customer care anyways and complain about the saw and see if they would be able to ship the Steel City saw directly to you with them p/u the shipping cost and allowing a 10% price reduction as well to compete with Lowes. See what they say and you can return the Ridgid for a store credit, saving everyone a lot of hassle and keeping you in their good graces as a customer.Might be worth a try and as you may have noticed under my name there's a little thing saying bargains finder, perhaps this might work for you as well or tell them you have a local distributor that has the Steel city at a much lower cost and see if they will price match them and p/u the shipping cost to keep you as a loyal customer, just a thought,Tommy


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Hey Charlie, I have a Ridgid 4511,one of the last great saws Ridgid made w/granite top. I have considered getting the Steel City myself (don't know why the Ridgid works great). I would like to suggest a way to possibly do this for yourself. Home Depot now sells online the Steel City saws ,35990C 10 in. Cast Iron Contractor Table Saw-35990C at The Home Depot city table saw&storeId=10051 as well as Lowes, Shop STEEL CITY 1.5-HP 10" Table Saw at Lowes.com model you are talking about as well as the granite top. I would tend to shy away from the granite unless you live in a very humid part of the country as the steel will rust unless properly cared for. Now I would suggest you call HD customer care anyways and complain about the saw and see if they would be able to ship the Steel City saw directly to you with them p/u the shipping cost and allowing a 10% price reduction as well to compete with Lowes. See what they say and you can return the Ridgid for a store credit, saving everyone a lot of hassle and keeping you in their good graces as a customer.Might be worth a try and as you may have noticed under my name there's a little thing saying bargains finder, perhaps this might work for you as well or tell them you have a local distributor that has the Steel city at a much lower cost and see if they will price match them and p/u the shipping cost to keep you as a loyal customer, just a thought,Tommy


Thanks. I'll give 'em a call and see what they say.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Let us know how it goes,good luck


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Let us know how it goes,good luck


They basically said it's up to the individual store manager. They were nice and said they'd schedule a follow-up and I have no complaint about how that was handled except they apparently leave all of this stuff up to individual store managers. I made it clear I had no complaint about how the store manager was treating me, but that I no longer wanted the Ridgid saw. I mean, what good is their warranty if there's no place around that will service it? And they won't send me the parts to fix it saying it's "too big of a job". I used to be a millright. These have FAR fewer parts than the stuff I used to work on. 

They are currently showing the Steel City 35990C at $876.99 (crazy!) and I can get it locally from another place that usually has them in stock for the sale flyer price of $649. AND that place can service them. HD will have to really be able to sweeten the pot if they don't want me to just get a refund and walk away.

If I get the Steel City saw, I think I'd get the cast iron rather than the granite. I mean... I already bought paste wax <grin> and the granite not being magnetic might be an issue later. I'd be fine with the all cast iron model. I'd be ok with the one with stamped steel wings too but geeeesh for $50 you couldn't buy the wings later. Probably couldn't buy ONE of the wings later for $50. Might as well get 'em now.

Wife seems at least understanding. Not happy about spending another couple hundred bucks, but..... we'll see how this all shakes out.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Where all the measurements you've given in inches? .005 inch = 5 thousands?

Do you have calipers? Measure a sheet of paper. .004 inches on my calipers measuring a sheet of paper that I use in my laser printer.

Is that what we are talking about?

I would be pleased if I could **measure** to those tolerances. I'm not talking cutting, I'm talking measuring the wood to be cut.

If it were me, I'd raise the blade up then slightly down and be done with it.

My two cents.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

rwl7532 said:


> Where all the measurements you've given in inches? .005 inch = 5 thousands?
> 
> Do you have calipers? Measure a sheet of paper. .004 inches on my calipers measuring a sheet of paper that I use in my laser printer.
> 
> ...


I don't totally disagree, but the saw is apart and I'm just waiting for help getting it from the shop to the van and it's going back. It ain't right, Ridgid says they wouldn't want anyone using a saw that shifts the blade like this, and I'm taking the manufacturer's advice. The place they told me is my local warranty repair center won't do business with them any more so there's no service anywhere near me. So much for the warranty.

Home Depot has been great through all of this. Ridgid.... not so much. So it's going back and I'm pretty sure I'll be getting a Steel City 35990C. That's not final yet. But I can get it local and the place I'd be buying it from also services them. I'm still kinda bummed. I liked the Ridgid. This one just didn't work out.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I know you are excited about your new table saw and you want it perfect because it is new but.......................... its pretty darn close. Call it square and start cutting! 

Take a piece of sheet good with a factory edge... rip it... flip the cut piece end to end and butt it against its former mate. How does it look? There's your answer. It either looks square or it doesn't. My guess is it looks square.

It just sounds like a giant hassle to replace a saw that works close enough to perfect. I hope it works out for you soon and that you get to start enjoying it or one like it!


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> The place they told me is my local warranty repair center won't do business with them any more so there's no service anywhere near me. So much for the warranty.


Now that is a shame. Fortunately you found this out before a few months down the road. 

You have got me interested in this model saw. It might fit in my tight space called my shop (aka "one car garage"). I'd have to check out warranty service based on your experience.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Marco said:


> I know you are excited about your new table saw and you want it perfect because it is new but.......................... its pretty darn close. Call it square and start cutting!
> 
> Take a piece of sheet good with a factory edge... rip it... flip the cut piece end to end and butt it against its former mate. How does it look? There's your answer. It either looks square or it doesn't. My guess is it looks square.
> 
> It just sounds like a giant hassle to replace a saw that works close enough to perfect. I hope it works out for you soon and that you get to start enjoying it or one like it!


It's not just that it was "off". It was off in a bad way. It would have pinched the wood at the back of the cut. That's not safe and it's probably why the manufacturer recommended not running the saw with this defect. And I think that's one of the key points in my decision to return it. The MANUFACTURER advised that it wasn't safe to run it this way. Add into that the fact about no service available in my area and I felt it had to go back. I really spent some time with it yesterday to see if I could adjust it so it wouldn't shift so much or get it to where any shift was at least predictable. Couldn't do it. Every time you touch the height adjust crank the blade moves right or left depending on whether you touched it in an UP direction or DOWN direction. The entire main trunnion was moving right and left. If it was predictably a few thousandths and if it remained parallel when shifting, I may have decided to keep it. But it was more like the back of the blade was swinging left and right and the front movement was less. At its worst, it was swinging about .020 (blade full up).

I don't expect perfection in my price range. But I think I expect better than what I got. AND with no ability to get it fixed.... the warranty is worthless to me. It's going back and it looks like I'm going to give the Steel City 35990C a try. I've read about some issues at least one reviewer had with that model as well (drive puleys misaligned and not enough adjustment available to properly tension the drive belt.... he bought a smaller belt), but with a local service place behind it, I'm hoping they'll take care of any issues. I'm certainly going to raise these concerns before I buy it.

My backup plan would be the Craftsman 21833 which is basically the same as the R4512, but at least I'd have Sears service. I really liked a lot of things about the R4512. The whole situation is kind of a bummer.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> I don't expect perfection in my price range. But I think I expect better than what I got. AND with no ability to get it fixed.... the warranty is worthless to me. It's going back and it looks like I'm going to give the Steel City 35990C a try. I've read about some issues at least one reviewer had with that model as well (drive puleys misaligned and not enough adjustment available to properly tension the drive belt.... he bought a smaller belt), but with a local service place behind it, I'm hoping they'll take care of any issues. I'm certainly going to raise these concerns before I buy it.
> 
> My backup plan would be the Craftsman 21833 which is basically the same as the R4512, but at least I'd have Sears service. I really liked a lot of things about the R4512. The whole situation is kind of a bummer.


Between those two choices, I would go with Steel City saw. The Craftsman is TOO much like the Ridgid(nearly identical). Also I am not too impressed with Sears service on power tools. If its not running they can probably make it run, but I wouldn't count on getting too much help aligning it!


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Dmeadows said:


> Between those two choices, I would go with Steel City saw. The Craftsman is TOO much like the Ridgid(nearly identical). Also I am not too impressed with Sears service on power tools. If its not running they can probably make it run, but I wouldn't count on getting too much help aligning it!


I'm really leaning toward the 35990C. They have the granite top one in stock, but I'm not sure about the granite. I have the R4512 ready to be moved but no help so I can't get it out of my shop right now. Home Depot manager was going to see if she could get a couple guys and their truck to come get it. I have to say I'm receiving real good service from Home Depot on this. They keep commenting about how calm I am. I said, "What good would it do to get mad? And at who? You? You didn't build this saw. It's just inconvenient, frustrating, and it's making something that should be fun, not so much fun. I appreciate you taking care of me." I think it helps to NOT be a ranting, raving maniac about it. I need to conserve my energy for actually MOVING the darn thing.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*Progress?*

I'd really like to get a new saw this coming week. Right now I'm looking at the Steel City 35990CS got $599 in stock locally. If the fence really sucks I still have room in the budget to get a T2 for it. 

I have an absolute, do-not-exceed, this-is-all-you-got, maximum of $800 to spend for a saw. That has to include any taxes or shipping. The place I'd get the Steel City saw from also is a distributor for General and several others but I'm not sure what they STOCK in the other brands. So I think I'm going there on Monday to talk to them.

But... $800 absolute max. Anyone see any other possibillities? 
There's a guy localy that has a 7 year old Jet JTAS-10XL cabinet saw for sale but he wasnt "$950 firm" so I don't have much hope of talking him down. I'd have to install a 220 plug and breaker in the shop, but I can do that pretty easily.

Is there anything out there NEW that I could squeeze into this $800 budget (or under it in case I need to get a fence or something)?


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Try this , G0715P 10" Hybrid Table Saw with Riving Knife, Polar Bear Series® , you should be able to find a 10% off coupon in some magazine somewhere to knock off about $80 or so getting you into this saw. From all I have read about it is a great saw for the money and thats delivered to your door.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Try this , G0715P 10" Hybrid Table Saw with Riving Knife, Polar Bear Series® , you should be able to find a 10% off coupon in some magazine somewhere to knock off about $80 or so getting you into this saw. From all I have read about it is a great saw for the money and thats delivered to your door.


Funny you should mention that particular model. I was looking at it and found a lot of articles on that one describing almost exactly the same issue with it as I had with the R4512 and people are also having that same issue with some of the CMan 21833 models. It has to be something inherant to the design of that trunnion system. 

One guy that is an engineer speculated that the castings were machined "green" and some of them are warping as they age. It's coming down to that being a very reasonable hypothesis for why there are so many people having the issue, but not every one. Some are fine. Maybe those castings sat around a while longer before they were machined. 

People are sending back the G0715P and getting the G0690 which is out of my price range.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Well its a 20 hr roundtrip drive,but you could bid on some of these up in Canada , http://www.irsauctions.com/index_lots.asp?pg=details&id=15616 , and sorry bout the Griz, I thought it had Cab mounted trunions not top mounted,something you need to shy away from for the accuracy you want.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I'd have to install a 220 plug and breaker in the shop, but I can do that pretty easily."
Charlie; that's essential for anything other than a small portable tablesaw.
You won't be happy with the performance running on 120V (assuming a dual voltage motor...which is almost universal in contractor saws and up). In fact, replacing the motor with a 3HP/220V is often recommended. 
My sub panel in the shop is 40Amp/220V and it's full. Lighting alone is a 15A/110V dedicated cct.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

DaninVan said:


> "I'd have to install a 220 plug and breaker in the shop, but I can do that pretty easily."
> Charlie; that's essential for anything other than a small portable tablesaw.
> You won't be happy with the performance running on 120V (assuming a dual voltage motor...which is almost universal in contractor saws and up). In fact, replacing the motor with a 3HP/220V is often recommended.
> My sub panel in the shop is 40Amp/220V and it's full. Lighting alone is a 15A/110V dedicated cct.


Yeah I have a 60 amp sub panel out there and the wire from the main to the sub is sized that I could actually take it to 100amp if I change the main. But I think 60amps is sufficient for what and how I do. So putting in a 220 plug is not hard. I've put them in many times for dryers and welders in other houses that I've owned.

I never knew buying a new saw would be so difficult. It's like a pig-in-a-poke to get a decent one out of the box and that's if you judge "decent" to simply mean "no defects". I have no issue with having to tweak alignments. Things get jostled in shipping and moving. Nature of the beast. Unfortunately it looks like my budget has me buying a Taiwanese-built machine no matter what. 

I'll keep watching craigslist right up until I go out the door to buy a saw. But it doesn't look promising in my market area right now. Everyone seems to have an inflated idea of the value of their used equipment.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Craftsman Professional 1-3/4 HP Premium Hybrid 10" Table Saw (22116) : Sears Outlet, HMMMM,Hey Charlie FWIW, This is a clone of the 4511 that I have and its a great saw, just don't understand the pricing difference between NY and Fla


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_"Everyone seems to have an inflated idea of the value of their used equipment."_
Too true, Charlie!


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Craftsman Professional 1-3/4 HP Premium Hybrid 10" Table Saw (22116) : Sears Outlet, HMMMM,Hey Charlie FWIW, This is a clone of the 4511 that I have and its a great saw, just don't understand the pricing difference between NY and Fla


If I lived in Florida, I might be driving to see one of those. The closest one in NY state is over 250 miles away and from the photos appears to be in a partially disassembled state. No telling what condition it's actually in. Looks like a granite top. I wonder if they'd talk price if I called them. Worth a try. That has cabinet mounted trunnions, right? Long drive. .... hehehe


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Yes cabinet mounted trunnions exactly like a 4511, in fact manufactured by the same company, Tell them you can buy it in Fla for $200 less and see if they'll lower the price.Or just drive to Ga. and buy this , http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/tls/2858642536.html


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Tommyt654 said:


> Craftsman Professional 1-3/4 HP Premium Hybrid 10" Table Saw (22116) : Sears Outlet, HMMMM,Hey Charlie FWIW, This is a clone of the 4511 that I have and its a great saw, just don't understand the pricing difference between NY and Fla


Also similar to my Steel City, except for the granite top.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*This just showed up on craigslist*

Grizzly Table Saw

Should I be jumping on that?
Grizzly G1023 for $500. Looks like it's on a mobile base but not sure if that's included.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

AxlMyk said:


> Also similar to my Steel City, except for the granite top.


Hey there, Steel City owner.  How do you like your saw? I'm looking at the 35990 but the only ones available locally right now is either the one with steel wings or the granite one for $50 more. I have some concerns with the granite. I'm not as concerned with breaking it as I am with... what if you want to add an after market fence? You can't just drill a hole in it. 

The one with steel wings would probably be fine for me at $599 and it looks like the alignment issue folks have with the miter slots on the cast iron and granite just don't exist with the steel wing version as the center, cast iron table portion has the miter slots in it.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Yup, Go get it, if she runs right I would buy it for that price a great saw


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> Also similar to my Steel City, except for the granite top.


The "zipcode" Craftsmans that came out in 2004 (when I got mine w/o the Bies fence) are made by Orion which is a division of Steel City.

Might explain the similarities. 

Added a Vega Pro 40 fence and Incra miter to mine, does what I need it to do.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> Grizzly Table Saw
> 
> Should I be jumping on that?
> Grizzly G1023 for $500. Looks like it's on a mobile base but not sure if that's included.


I own one as well and agree, it is a great saw!


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Just got off the phone with him. He bought it used. He's now in a position to upgrade to a unisaw. The mobile base comes with it. $500 .... G1023 vs $600 for a new 35990 with a 5 year warranty. BOTH have cabinet mounted trunnions. The Grizzly is 220 and 3hp. 

It has really long rails on it. He said he can get 48" to the right of the blade. That's big and I'd never use that much. I have to figure out if I can fit it in my van and if we can GET it into my van.

Ok... whatever.... I'm going to go look at it tomorrow at 11am. I'm first in line. He's upgrading his planer, jointer, saw, and something else. Unless I see some excessive play in bearings or something, I'm going to buy it. When I get home I can go to Home Depot and get a 30amp double breaker, some wire and a box and plug and put in the 220 plug.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Thats hardly and upgrade for him, The Unisaw's not much better unless its newer in that sense. Remember this thing weighs in at around 400lbs ,So get a coupla stout high school kids and their friends to help load/unload and get it to where you want iot. Looks like a shop fox mobile base, a good one, thats a steal if its in good shape even an older model like that still garners respect as a fine cabinet saw IMO. Good luck, it should fit in a full size chevy or ford van no mini van tho.Even if you had to replace the bearings still a good buy.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Thats hardly and upgrade for him, The Unisaw's not much better unless its newer in that sense. Remember this thing weighs in at around 400lbs ,So get a coupla stout high school kids and their friends to help load/unload and get it to where you want iot. Looks like a shop fox mobile base, a good one, thats a steal if its in good shape even an older model like that still garners respect as a fine cabinet saw IMO. Good luck, it should fit in a full size chevy or ford van no mini van tho.Even if you had to replace the bearings still a good buy.


After I remove the fence and rails, it can lay on its side in the minivan with the wings attached. Or on its back. He said he was told that if he has to lay it over, to lay it on the side, preferrably on the opposite side from the motor. Apparently that position avoids undue stress on the motor mount and trunnions. I'll have to look at it to verify.
I have no way to transport it standing up unless I go rent a truck and if I do that, I'm renting one with a lift gate


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Charlie

You can use my 4 x 10 trailer with a drop down ramp gate on it and with a furniture Dollie you can just roll it in place and roll it off the same way..( I have elec.winch on it help with the load up, I have used it to load up tool boxes loaded that go over 1400 lbs ) and with a extra hand or two to help with the pushing but I'm sure you can rent one in NY also..  all you need is a trailer.


===



reikimaster said:


> After I remove the fence and rails, it can lay on its side in the minivan with the wings attached. Or on its back. He said he was told that if he has to lay it over, to lay it on the side, preferrably on the opposite side from the motor. Apparently that position avoids undue stress on the motor mount and trunnions. I'll have to look at it to verify.
> I have no way to transport it standing up unless I go rent a truck and if I do that, I'm renting one with a lift gate


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

I'd take the wings off as well Charlie to release any undue stress on them as well as the motor. When I p/u that 350# planer last week I had to remove the motor as well as take it off its base just to barely be able to lift it into my SUV.I would (if'n I was in ur shoes)remove as much weight as possible. I would venture to say that base and top alone are in the 300lb range, so anything you can remove thats bolted will aleve some stress loading. Good luck. I think your gonna find thats a great saw. Send pics when ya getta chance

 Tommy


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

bobj3 said:


> HI Charlie
> 
> You can use my 4 x 10 trailer with a drop down ramp gate on it and with a furniture Dollie you can just roll it in place and roll it off the same way..( I have elec.winch on it help with the load up, I have used it to load up tool boxes loaded that go over 1400 lbs ) and with a extra hand or two to help with the pushing but I'm sure you can rent one in NY also..  all you need is a trailer.
> 
> ...



For a minute there, Bob, I thought you were offering to help me move it! heheheh. If I can get it in my van with this help, fine. If not, I might just rent a truck with a lift gate. That way nobody gets hurt. It'll add about $150 to the deal, but .... I think it will fit in my van. I have 37 inches from floor to top of rear hatch opening. I think with both wings that table is 36-1/4". It'll be close. The guy is a bit concerned about me removing the wings, but I expect to have to readjust everything when I get it here anyways. So I'm not sure taking the wings off would be a bad thing. Or just one of them.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> The guy is a bit concerned about me removing the wings


$500 goes a long way to ease concern.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*Remove wings and table to transport...*

Looking at the manual. It mentions removing the wings and table for routine maintenance (lubricating the trunnions and lead screws, etc), so I would think it would be no big deal to remove them for transport. And removing all that weight should make it easier to load, unload. Three bolts for each wing and 4 for the table itself. Should I expect them to be rusted in (looks like the saw was pretty well cared for) or should they come out rather easily? 

If this thing is supposed to be opened at least annually for lubrication, I would expect it to come apart without too much difficulty. I'd like to leave the motor in place, but I am prepared to remove it if necessary. I'm kinda of the opinion that removing the table and wings is going to lighten it up considerably.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Could be a stress fracture(hairline) in 1 of the wings that only appears when its off the saw. If thats the case while its nothing that would affect the saws operation it would drop the value, I can't fathom any reasoning for him to worry about the wing removal otherwise.Your obviously not gonna purchase it until its thoroughly checked out,Take a good straightedge with you as well as a runout gauge if you have one to check measurements while there before purchasing.If he has any issue with you being thorough back away from the deal and head home.As far as removing any bolts there shoudn't be any issue with them I can think of judging from the pics, but a lot of times deals like this are from purchase's made to profit someone who may have purchased a factory used model (remember my link to IRSauctions) to fix up for resale. I know because I have a friend that does that, however he goes thru them thoroughly and replaces any defects he finds(new bearings,bolts,grommets,etc ) before painting and reselling them on the market for a profit. I think this is probabaly not that, but either way check it out thoroughly before purchasing and see if he'll offer you a 30 day money back guarantee


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Tommyt654 said:


> Could be a stress fracture(hairline) in 1 of the wings that only appears when its off the saw. If thats the case while its nothing that would affect the saws operation it would drop the value, I can't fathom any reasoning for him to worry about the wing removal otherwise.Your obviously not gonna purchase it until its thoroughly checked out,Take a good straightedge with you as well as a runout gauge if you have one to check measurements while there before purchasing.


We already discussed the fact that I will be examining it before any transaction. Some folks are just not comfortable taking machines apart. I know a lot of woodworkers who are like that. They can do maintenance, but when it comes to taking it all apart, they're not comfortable. I was a journeyman millright. I can take things apart and put 'em back together pretty well. I'm taking some tools, clamps, my dial indicator, straight edge and squares. He's nervous about me taking it apart before he's officially sold it. Ok. Here's how it goes.

First he plugs it in and runs it up. (Hey... can't overlook the OBVIOUS, right?)
I examine it without taking anything apart, other than the insert and whatever I can examine by opening doors and covers.
THEN I hand him the money and together we take off the fence and rails, the extensions, and finally, the table. When the table comes off I inspect the trunnions, and stuff I couldn't see before. 
If no cracks or major defects are found, I bought myself a saw and he helps me load it.
If we find something that ends the sale, he hands me back the money and we put it all back together for someone else to look at and I go home with my money.

If he doesn't agree to the procedure, I walk away and go buy the 35990


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Perfect way to go about it. Good luck and hope you get a great saw


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Didn't get it. He wouldn't consent to a complete inspection and I saw metal filings and at least one "curl" in the angle adjust rack. Hasn't been lubed since he had it. It squeaks and complains when you turn the crank handle. I passed on it. 

Looks like I'm going out to buy the 35990... probably the one with steel wings only because I really don't have confidence in the granite with the seam in the miter slot.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

That'll work ,send pics once you get it put together and runnin,Tommy


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> Didn't get it. He wouldn't consent to a complete inspection and I saw metal filings and at least one "curl" in the angle adjust rack. Hasn't been lubed since he had it. It squeaks and complains when you turn the crank handle. I passed on it.
> 
> Looks like I'm going out to buy the 35990... probably the one with steel wings only because I really don't have confidence in the granite with the seam in the miter slot.


Did you flash the $500? When a seller turns down an offer, it is the equivalent of the seller buying the item for the amount offered. 

Likely all for the best. 

When that time finally comes for you to sell, you should quote the current runout measurements and your lube schedule in the ad. Should be gone in a blink.
****


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Got the granite top 35990. I have it on its legs and the wings are attached, but they need tweaking. The left miter slot is ok right now, but the right one is binding. I have to read up on how people are getting these adjsted so the table is flat AND the miter slot is correct.

Tomorrow is another day.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

*OK, well it's tomorrow....*

The granite wings go onto a pair of locating pins and they sit on top of 4 large height-adjustable "bushings". The don't attach to the main table anywhere. This wouldn't be a bad arrangement except for the fact that the granite is cantelevered so it won't just sit on those bushings while you level it. You need to have at least one of the bolts in it to keep it from just tipping off and falling on the floor (which I'm guessing would not be a good thing). The directions say it comes from the factory all leveled up, but it sure doesn't. The miter slots are too tight as well. But those might be tight because the wing isn't level to the table. Remember the wing-to-table seam is in the miter slot.

So I think the first order of business will be to get the wings level by adjusting all those bushings up or down. I'm going to clamp a 1x4 across the table width-wise. One clamp on the left wing and one clamp on the outer edge of the right wing. That will be enough to keep it from tipping and sliding off while I fiddle with the bushings. I'll also position it so the outboard edge of the wing I'm working on is slightly over my workbench. Once I have the bushings adjusted and the wings level, I should be able to take them off and put them back on without screwing up their levelness (is that a word). I think this is going to take a fair amount of time and patience. Because it wants to tip off the saw, you need to have the innermost bolts tight to hold it to the bushing on the inboard edge. But if the bolts are tight, you can't adjust the bushing. So unless I find a secret shortcut, I think this is going to take a while.

It's only after getting the wings level that I'll be able to work on getting the miter slots adjusted for width, which could mean removing the wing (*sigh*) to put a shim between table and wing. And I can't even THINK about aligning the table (miter slot) to the blade until I have a miter slot. If I have to align the table top to the blade, I'll have to loosen all 8 wing bolts, plus the 4 table bolts, tap the table into alignment, and then retighten all the wing bolts.

I really like this table, but it's obviously creating a ton of extra work getting it set up. I think it'll be fine once its all adjusted.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

You need a sky-hook.
Something from the ceiling to suspend something heavy.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Leveling the wings was far easier than I thought once I figured out the sequence of what bolts to tighten/loosen/adjust and when to do them. AND I never had to remove all the wing bolts so it turns out I didn't need anything clamped across the table.

I did a write-up on the procedure in another thread here just a few minutes ago.

It's flat and level. Blade to miter slot is about .002 to .003. The fence is really not bad. It's heavy and it seems to lock down pretty darn tight. I'll be putting a face on it. Weird that it doesn't come with anything at all.

Oh... and it passes the penny test!

I have some minor tweaking here and there, general checking over to make sure I've tightened everything, but overall this was a much better experience so far than I had with the R4512.

I have to saw the R4512 stand and caster system was much more robust. But I don't intend to move it a lot and when I need to move it, the casters it has work just fine.

So now I have to go grocery shopping and stop playing with my new toy for a while.


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## daviddoria (Oct 12, 2009)

reikimaster - Using the forum search I was unable to find your write up about how you did this. I can't get my steel wings level with the cast iron (the wings are below the iron) so I was hoping to see how you did it. Can you please post a link to it here?

Thanks!

David


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

daviddoria said:


> reikimaster - Using the forum search I was unable to find your write up about how you did this. I can't get my steel wings level with the cast iron (the wings are below the iron) so I was hoping to see how you did it. Can you please post a link to it here?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> David


This one?
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/33848-steel-city-35990-granite-top-setup.html

If you loosen the wing's bolts, it doesn't have enough slack to go slightly "above" the cast table? Might need that much to ensure you have enough room to adjust level.

If not, then you could take off the wing to elongate the holes with a round file, dremel or die grinder.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

reikimaster said:


> I can move it in my van no problem. It's getting it TO the van that's going to be a bit dicey. I can't drive to the shop. I have to haul the saw over snow-covered yard about 100 feet to get to the driveway. AND I have to get help manhandling the table. I can move it. It's just going to be a hassle. Kinda taking the fun out of getting a new saw.


Charlie, deal with the hassle now, get it behind you. If you don't, it will bug you as long as you have the saw and probably will be a long time. You might want to talk to folks you bought it from first and see if they might help you with the moving, all they can say is no and maybe they will surprise you and mimimize the hassle, but in my opinion I would sure do the exchandge. Let us know what you decide to do.

Jerry


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

There are Powermatic model 66 saws on CL in the $600 range in my area.
Now thats a saw, not just junk.

Don


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry & Don-

Key on Post #56 (David's). 

David (Post #56) has his own related problem and was asking about a link to a referred thread from this one. David's problem is that he has a Table Saw with a cast iron table and steel extension wings. He is having problems leveling his extension wings with his table.

As for the rest of the thread, as far as I know, it was a done deal almost a year ago. Charlie's (reikimaster) last post in this forum was 3-23-12. So Charlie is not here to answer David's questions.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I know it's too late, but I'd agree with those that said just use the saw like it is. I think the millwright in you is taking over in your woodworking. It's an occupational addict in us all in the trade. I repair metal cutting machine tools, so am also somewhat of a millwright/machinist. I catch myself all the time in the wood shop trying to get tolerances I need in my day job. I have a small Hitachi contractor table saw, and I haven't put an indicator on it, but I can see the play in it. I think once it's spinning, it straightens itself out. ;o) It cuts fairly well for the cheap saw that it is. But then again, I'm not building wooden space crafts. ;o) But I guess I can see you returning it just because of the service center near you won't work on them any more. I've been buying mostly all Ridgid tools, as of late (chop saw, shop vac, Router, Trim router, and drill/driver. All registered. And although I haven't had the need (knock on wood), I have a service center about 4 miles away.


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