# Incra router table combo ckage #3



## CM1 (Mar 3, 2016)

Hello all,
I am finally ready to spend on a quality table and fence system. I have looked at a multitude of tables To include MDF, Phenolic, cast iron, and Aluminum. This includes Wood Peckers, Jessem, General, Grizzly, Rockler, Sommerfeld, Incra, Kreg Bench Dog, Festool and Triton, MLCS. 

I would like to think I have done my home work. and spending 1700.00 on a table and lift with router. Is a lot of money. 
I am considering the Incra combo #3 package 
Includes a 25" Range LS Super System with 27" x 43" Router Table and Stand. I also selected to purchase the wheel kit, Incra dust sweep combo kit with mag lock inserts,
Incra PRL-V2 lift with a Porter Cable 7518 motor assembly
JessEm clear cut Stock Guides
JessEm Pow-R-Tek router switch
Incra shop stop extra one as one comes with the super system.

Now to what I plan on doing with this setup; Making cabinets, drawers, doors. Furniture, small projects to keep me busy to possibly sale for extra income. 

My questions would be this are there any limitations to the above setup? 
Will it make dovetails? As it is demonstrated in the factory videos ?
(they are old videos)
I have watched most of the videos for the Incra and found it to be a very versatile router table and fence system. 
Is Porter Cable 7518 the way to go for router motor ? 
Is the Incra PRL-V2 lift a sturdy and durable lift?
Does anyone have this setup or one like it by Incra? 
Are there any major differences between the Super LS 17 and the 25?
What are your thoughts I plan on buying this by the end of the month of August 2016. Any input both positive and negative is helpful.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I think JessEm builds the best lifts...
wood magazine just did review on lifts... (issue 242)
and accessories...
Routers | WOOD Magazine


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The 7518 has been getting some poor reviews lately. At one time it was the only way to go but since PC sold out the quality has dropped. I have quite a few older PC tools and even back then they were using very cheap bearings. Maybe a Bosch or Milwaukee motor would be a better choice these days.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

If I had it to do over again, I'd probably go with the Sommerfeld. I've watched many of his videos and like the way it works. The plate has a twist lock insert and he uses a Triton TRA 001 router in it. If you watch his videos you will see that his technique on his own table is very efficient and effective. For demonstration purposes, he works from the side much of the time, but if you were standing in front of the table, it would be even easier to use.

There are many tables out there that will do the job. At present I have a Rockler table top with a steel stand. I've enclosed the stand, but it is not as convenient as I'd like and Rockler's plates require removing 3 the insert to change bits. I have replaced my Rockler plate with a Woodpecker's plate, with the twist lock insert...which is what Mark Sommerfeld has in his videos. For door making in particular, you use multiple bits, his door making sets are matched so you set the height of the first bit and simply drop subsequent bits into the collet and lock them down. So the twist lock insert feature is a significant convenience.

I'm not sure what other plates have the twistlock feature, but it is worth pursuing.

Take a look at Sommerfeld's table and technique 




I think the Made Easy series of videos by his company are really wonderful, and I also really like his EasySet star shaped bit setting template, which uses a twist motion to account for tiny differences in wood thickness. Finally, to make the matched set work, you place a rubber grommet in the collet, on which the shank sits.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jack, hope this helps..



CM1 said:


> My questions would be this are there any limitations to the above setup?
> Will it make dovetails? As it is demonstrated in the factory videos ?
> (they are old videos)
> 
> ...


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

For that money, I'd pick up a used shaper and power feed off craigslist, and I'd still have money to spare.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Jack, I've had a similar setup for about a year now. The main difference is I went with the INCRA Mast-R-Lift II Lift (made by Jessem), which I really like. Other differences: I didn't get the Stock guides (looks nice) or the extra stop, and I went with a Rockler power switch.

Overall, I'm very pleased. But I have a few small nitpicks:

1) I have the LS25. Note that even on the big table, to get the full advantage of the LS25, the base has to extend off of the table (at least 4" has to be on the table), or you have to build an extension. See p. 5 of the LS manual. So I don't take full advantage of its travel, although it's still more useable travel than the LS17.

2) I don't like the wheel set, because the fixed wheels should castor and lock. Maybe I'm just too used to my other tools, which are all on castoring wheels. I find the height adjustment is also difficult on the fixed wheels, if not impossible once the table is put together, although this is a one-time issue.

3) The Cleansweep collector works very well, but is very large. It takes up nearly half the width of the storage area under the table, and nearly the full height, once you add in the piping. I'm currently adding in drawers to the cabinet, and I decided to abandon the cleansweep, because I want more storage. I'm building something like this:

INCRA Router Table Cabinet - by Lance @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

and there's no way you could have those 2 drawers under the router with the Cleansweep. Note that the cabinet above exhausts the router cavity out the rear, rather than the bottom like the Cleansweep. This saves a lot of space, and I don't know yet how well it will work. Regardless, you also need to add a tee or something in order to exhaust the fence.

4) The Incra system depends on bits that are the right size. I've had good luck with the Whiteside bits. But I have a 1/2" Freud straight bit, which is slightly (a few 0.001") undersized. An otherwise fine bit, my Freud results in too much of an interference fit for box joints, particularly with hardwoods such as maple.

5) Don't buy the shelf supports if you plan to enclose the bottom. They block the side panel inserts.

6) Finally, I like the stand, but only if you have no plans to enclose the cabinet and add drawers. If you plan to enclose the cabinet and add drawers (like I am now), I believe it'd be easier just to build an entire cabinet from scratch. YMMV.

That's all I can think of. Again, I'm very pleased and will keep this setup for a long time. Although that Sommerfeld sure looks nice :smile:


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## CM1 (Mar 3, 2016)

Thank you all for the replies.

@ DesertRatTom; @ Cherryville Chuck; I have looked at Sommerfeld Tools and have paid attention to Mark's Table and the Triton setup. ( I did not like that you have to cut out the tabs on the router) The reviews for the table went both ways. As for Sommerfeld router bit sets, I plan on purchasing his bit sets to use in the Incra table with the PC 7518. I have looked at just getting the standard Magna-lock plate with the Incra table and hanging a Triton router on it. That would require drilling a hole in the plate and would save some money. But the issue I have there is that I don't have a Triton service center near me so if something should go wrong I am waiting. There are two Porter Cable centers ( I have been to one and they are good at what they do) and I have read thru at the reviews both good and bad for the PC. It would seem that in the early 2000s there were bearing issues. From what I can see the recent reviews are all good. I will be only buying the PC 7518 Motor. I also like that the collets that I currently have off of my 890 series will work with the 7518. I am just hoping that it can turn the raised panel cutters from Sommerfeld Tools. 

@ Stick486 The lift I believe is made here in America by Wood Peckers for Incra and I like that it is American made. After all as a disabled Veteran all my income comes from the VA and I would like to return some of the American tax payer's money to them with my purchase. I have difficulty being on my feet at times and have to take multiple breaks what used to take me hours now takes a day. I am not ready to throw in the towel yet and figure I can still produce some awesome wood working projects plus it will help keep my mind busy and off my condition from the service to my country. 

Now back to the Lift It too has some good reviews and yes Stick486 JessEm does make some Excellent products that is why I will be including with my purchase the Clear Cut Stock Guides for the router table. I have something like them on my Craftsman Radial Saw and they are bulky but work to hold the material down. 
If I do get into heavy dovetail making with the table I may even purchase the JessEm, The Mite-R-Slide Not sure it would work with the Incra fence but I have seen one mounted on a YouTube video. 

Last but least I have spoken with the Incra People via Email and phone and they are real quick to respond and answer my questions so hands down they have excellent customer skills as far as I am concerned right there with MCLS they too are on top of their game. Unfortunately I am still waiting for Mark Sommerfeld from Sommerfeld tools to write back to me. I will shoot his company another email. 
Plus for you military and veterans alike Incra offers a 10 percent military discount on their tools. That little bit helps. 


Again Thank you for your responses. I will check back like I said in my original post I will be purchasing this setup soon unless someone can point me to a better setup.


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## CM1 (Mar 3, 2016)

Wow it would seem while I was writing my second post several others have responded I want to thank you all. Especially TwoSkies57 and Furboo. Your responses where exactly what I was looking for. Now to choose either the 17" or the 25" I will be building cabinets for the most part so the extended depth is a plus but when that is done, the limits are only to what I can dream up. 

A big thank you to all that so far replied with your thoughts and ideals. Again Thank you 




Something that I used to tell the Sailors whom served with me; 
There is no such thing as a stupid question only a dumb response from the person being asked. 
Knowledge not shared and passed down is knowledge lost to the ravages of time to be forgotten forever. To hopefully be remembered or rediscovered once again.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Jack I believe I have essentially the same parts you've purchaced , but unfortunately
I have never had the time to assemble it. Waiting for MT Stringer to move next door , but it may be a while as I think he likes the heat and food down south . 

I'm going to build from the top down and use the Incra top but build the cabinet instead of using there frame work . There's some great videos on YouTube , and there's a lot of pictures posted in the build your own router table section to get ideas . 
Some great home made tables here to say the least .

I also bought a few PC7518-2 (motors only ). Checked the housing with a caliber and see nothing was off centre like mentioned on the net . May take one apart out of curiosity to see about these so called ceramic bearings , as we have a Caman bearing here in town and this should be a cheap fix if true


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## CM1 (Mar 3, 2016)

*JessEm Mit R Slide.*



TwoSkies57 said:


> Jack, hope this helps..


TwoSkies I noticed in you post as quoted above that you have the JessEm Mit R slide. I perused your link to your post from 2009 and have gone thru that posting. Like you I like to do my home work too. I have found one of your photos with the JessEm mounted how did you mount it and do you have the specs for the blocks in the photo?(post 107 of 193)(http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...soft-start-variable-speed-table-setup-11.html)
Has it worked for you without any issues? 

Also noticed the you installed the Wixey remote digital readout. How has that worked? Being that I noted in your other post that you had issues with it turning itself on. 
I will be using my new table to make drawers with the dovetail guides for the Incra LS super system. With bit set for the Incra system from Sommerfeld Tools his price was better than anyone else's. Being able to dial the bit height to near perfect would be and added benefit for another 70.00


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jack, again, hope this helps ya 



CM1 said:


> TwoSkies I noticed in you post as quoted above that you have the JessEm Mit R slide. I perused your link to your post from 2009 and have gone thru that posting. Like you I like to do my home work too. I have found one of your photos with the JessEm mounted how did you mount it and do you have the specs for the blocks in the photo?(post 107 of 193)(http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...soft-start-variable-speed-table-setup-11.html)
> Has it worked for you without any issues
> 
> Jack...here is a link to the install of the MRS..
> ...


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Jack, a bit more on the LS25 vs. 17: For the 27" x 43" table and with the base mounted at the edge of the table (not protruding off the edge), I get just under 19" of effective travel. The base is 9" wide, so to stay in spec, you can move it 5" off the edge to get just under 24" of effective travel. To get the full 25", you'll have to build an extension, or use a bigger table.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

CM1 said:


> There is no such thing as a stupid question


After last weekend visiting grandkids, I'm starting to believe that whoever came up with this saying never spent enough time with a 3-year old :smile:


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