# T-slot cutter vs T-track



## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

Obviously T-track is better, smoother and more durable. But, does anyone have an opinion of a T-slot cut into the wood vs T-track? Did it work out for you or is it more trouble than its worth?


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

This is a good area for discussion! I would really appreciate others experiences with the T-slot cut with the router bit... good and bad please!!

sofasurfer::: thanks for bringing this up!! :yes2:


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## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

No problem. Theres a million things I don't know.
The reason I asked about this is that theres no where around here that I can buy T-track and I get tired of ordering stuff through the mail and waiting for it. And I am also always looking for less expensive ways of doing things. I don't mind a project costing a few bucks more than I expected but now days every part needed for a project is at a premium price and before you get a project completed you have a half weeks wages wrapped up in it.
I'm going to try to make it to the recycle yard in the next couple days and see if there is any T-track getting scrapped out.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

I'm not a big fan of the T-Tracks but I use the T-Slots all the time it's quicker and a lot cheaper, I use them in many jigs and fences..I like to use the key hole bits most of the time..but I do use the T-Tracks slot cutters now and than also...and make my own T-Track parts with Oak the norm..no real standard size for T-Tracks so they can be all over the ball part in size..

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sofasurfer said:


> Obviously T-track is better, smoother and more durable. But, does anyone have an opinion of a T-slot cut into the wood vs T-track? Did it work out for you or is it more trouble than its worth?


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## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

I work mostly with oak, pine and plywood. Oak is coarse grain, pine is soft and ply is coarse and splintery.

I'm thinking that I would benifit greatly from cutting a wide dado, inserting a hard, smooth grained wood and then cutting the T-stop through it. I wood probably use available maple or search for some mahogany (or what else?).
Is this a waste of time or a good worthwhile plan?


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Gotta say if it were me, I'd go with the T-track. I know waiting on things can be difficult, but I think the aluminum would be much more durable.


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## idahofiregod (Feb 14, 2010)

I would agree with using T-tracks with wood. I have tried cutting t-slots and they were decent, but after a while the clamps and jigs I was using dug into the wood and made the operation less accurate. I would suggest if you go through them more than occasionally, getting two on your next mail order.


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

Someone wrote aluminum is not too difficult to be worked, no more than really hard wood, and the price of raw aluminum is almost reasonable.
I just made holes into aluminum, so I can't confirm this.
Has someone here tried to cut T slots into it with a good router?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Daryl

Here's a shot or two ,they work great but not in pine or any other softwoods.....or made out of any softwoods....

Note the router table fence in the background it has the slots also..

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sofasurfer said:


> I work mostly with oak, pine and plywood. Oak is coarse gran, pine is soft and ply is coarse and splintery.
> 
> I'm thinking that I would benifit greatly from cutting a wide dado, inserting a hard, smooth grained wood and then cutting the T-stop through it. I wood probably use available maple or search for some mahogany (or what else?).
> Is this a waste of time or a good worthwhile plan?


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## sofasurfer (May 30, 2009)

BJ, Is there anything that you don't have pictures of?:sarcastic:
I see that you are not shy about using oak for this purpose, but what other common woods would be recommended for this?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Poplar works very well and it's not to high in price I also like soft Maple.
By the way sq.nuts slide right into the slots and some hex head bolts.

Like they say a picture is worth a 1000 words 

=========



sofasurfer said:


> BJ, Is there anything that you don't have pictures of?:sarcastic:
> I see that you are not shy about using oak for this purpose, but what other common woods would be recommended for this?


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## George II (Nov 8, 2007)

I think I'm about to high jack this thread....let me know if this is so..I just received some information from BJ about my new router table..After reading this thread I am having a brain f**t.....combing some ideas thrown about here I am thinking about cutting a dado in my table...putting a strip of red oak in the dado and then running a T-Slot in the red oak for a miter slot and the fence slots.....just call it my altered state from the psychotropics during the 60's..

Regards,
George 
"Regulae Stultis Sunt"


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have a couple of T-slot cutters and like to ues them. I aways cut the slot with a straight bit first, then go for it. It works really well in plywood.


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

Here is my 0.02 euro for a hybrid T slot.



(click to see larger on Flickr)

There is a plain slot in the wood, and two stripes of metal (iron, aluminum, whatever you find) countersunk on the sides of the slot, to support the vertical push of the sliding nuts.
I think this can work even on MDF or cheap wood, since the biggest strain is delegated to metal.
It is also possible to insert two reversed L profiles below the metal strips to protect the sides of the slot, if your wood is soft like the only one I can find.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> Someone wrote aluminum is not too difficult to be worked, no more than really hard wood, and the price of raw aluminum is almost reasonable.
> I just made holes into aluminum, so I can't confirm this.
> Has someone here tried to cut T slots into it with a good router?


It may be different for you in Italy, but here I really don't see the need to go to that trouble. It might be possible to beat the price, but the effort would might render it inefficient. You can get three feet (.91m) of T-track for $15+shipping, possibly less. That would certainly cover two tracks for a fence, unless it's a really large table.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

MarcoBernardini said:


> Someone wrote aluminum is not too difficult to be worked, no more than really hard wood, and the price of raw aluminum is almost reasonable.
> I just made holes into aluminum, so I can't confirm this.
> Has someone here tried to cut T slots into it with a good router?


I made some mini t-track from square and rectangular aluminium.
One went quite easily, the other tended to melt and stick to the cutter. If i had a proper aluminium cutter, it probably would have went better.
Did the trick for me though.
Here's a link to the thread which is basically the same as this thread.

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/17492-dovetail-dado-instead-t-track.html


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## gordon janis (Feb 14, 2010)

*cutting t tracks*

I have done this cut many times in oak and other hard woods, most seven or eight feet lenghts. Not difficult but best done in two steps. Cut a dado with a table saw and dado blade to alow for the tee cutter shaft. Then run the cut with the router table and t slot cutter to cut the "wings ". No dado blade? Thee or four passes on a regular bade. Each pass is an eighth of an inch. NO table saw? use a staight router bit to cut the dado. metal t tracks have two disadvantages. One is appearence. Second is cost. Need a lot of these tracks and the cost adds up. Also, you have to cut a dado for the track anyway, one pass (slowllllly) with the T cutter after that and the job is done, Looks much better and cost time with your tools, not a buck or so a foot. Go for it! But use a router table and infeed and out feed wings for long cuts. Rollers work well too. Feed Slowly( the wood).


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

Cocheseuga said:


> It may be different for you in Italy, but here I really don't see the need to go to that trouble. It might be possible to beat the price, but the effort would might render it inefficient. You can get three feet (.91m) of T-track for $15+shipping, possibly less. That would certainly cover two tracks for a fence, unless it's a really large table.


We have a shop selling online a 18" Incra T-Track for 6.70 euro + shipping, and I think it is a really fair price.
The problem is we (Europeans, not just Italians) are "metrocentrics"... and something requiring imperial size hardware could be a problem. In the same shop a single 1/4"-20 screw goes at 0.50 euro.
A decent amount of bolts, nuts, etc. to make some jigs and fixtures will raise the price too much, and we also have to get dedicated spanners.
I'm looking for a metric T-track, but it seems pretty difficult to find one.
It would be a very smart move, for Incra, to make a metric version of their tracks: even if we are just a half a billion of people, I think there would be enough customers to justify a new product.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

A friend of mine experimented 3 different T-track: aluminum, Live in the wood and the 3rd slot with a 2 plates of metal bolted on each side. I await his response
This response interest me too!
Santé

I had not seen hybrid t-track of Marco that is what i say but in metal


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

A couple of my examples.


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

I have one my neighbor made me years ago and he put a dovetail slot in it.

Gary


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

That is the photos of my friend Champy of lescopeaux.asso.fr
he say the one directly in the wood is no good


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I am like Bobj3, in that i will do about anything to keep a dado off any kind of
flat table. I have had a thin piece of wire that fell on a aluminum table that i bought years ago for my router. it came out and fell on the floor. Can you imagine what could have happened if it fell on the router bit. I cut one on my fence to be able to slide a stop on it,but I am scared to do it on the table,after that. I don't recommend it at all.


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## asrubin (Jan 1, 2008)

Try a dovetail bit 1/2 inch to make the T-slots. They work for me using a 1/4 bolt with hex top....the bolt does not turn in the slot when tighting the knob....


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> We have a shop selling online a 18" Incra T-Track for 6.70 euro + shipping, and I think it is a really fair price.
> The problem is we (Europeans, not just Italians) are "metrocentrics"... and something requiring imperial size hardware could be a problem. In the same shop a single 1/4"-20 screw goes at 0.50 euro.
> A decent amount of bolts, nuts, etc. to make some jigs and fixtures will raise the price too much, and we also have to get dedicated spanners.
> I'm looking for a metric T-track, but it seems pretty difficult to find one.
> It would be a very smart move, for Incra, to make a metric version of their tracks: even if we are just a half a billion of people, I think there would be enough customers to justify a new product.


A fair point, something I had not thought of. Even the Italian Incra dealer sells the 1/4" bolts.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> We have a shop selling online a 18" Incra T-Track for 6.70 euro + shipping, and I think it is a really fair price.
> The problem is we (Europeans, not just Italians) are "metrocentrics"... and something requiring imperial size hardware could be a problem. In the same shop a single 1/4"-20 screw goes at 0.50 euro.
> A decent amount of bolts, nuts, etc. to make some jigs and fixtures will raise the price too much, and we also have to get dedicated spanners.
> I'm looking for a metric T-track, but it seems pretty difficult to find one.
> It would be a very smart move, for Incra, to make a metric version of their tracks: even if we are just a half a billion of people, I think there would be enough customers to justify a new product.


Here in Belgium we have rails for hanging (curtain ?) that i use for tables and fences. They are just 16mm x 9mm, the bolt head M8 do not turn in interior.
In France and in Suisse they are différent, more litll they are not good for M8
and interior is too big for the head of M6 .

Santé


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

Santé said:


> Here in Belgium we have rails for hanging (curtain ?) that i use for tables and fences. They are just 16mm x 9mm, the bolt head M8 do not turn in interior.
> In France and in Suisse they are différent, more litll they are not good for M8
> and interior is too big for the head of M6 .
> 
> Santé


I found a curtain rail at the city dump (my preferred shop)... and it was exactly 1" high 
Santé, you can grind the sides of an M8 bolt head to fit your rails, or you can try with those bolts with a cylindric head.
The rails of Champy are nice: where he got them?


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> I found a curtain rail at the city dump (my preferred shop)... and it was exactly 1" high
> Santé, you can grind the sides of an M8 bolt head to fit your rails, or you can try with those bolts with a cylindric head.
> The rails of Champy are nice: where he got them?


I am in Belgium and i have no problem with the rails, For the rails in France or in Suisse, it is no probleme with the head M8, the problem is that the space between the lips is smaller than 8mm. For m6 is Ok for this space, but the head tourne in the rail. they must take M6 with large head and grind the sides
I will ask Champy where he find this rail, I know that there are Bosch rails. You will find this in Italy
Best regards
Santé


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

That is the anwer of an other friend:
"_*Les rails qu'on voit sur la dernière photo proviennent d'une boutique en ligne appelée 'Technic-achat'. Leur adresse internet m'a été communiqué sur un forum (je ne sais plus où).
http://www.technic-achat.com/boutique/liste_rayons.cfm"
*_

this is a in-line shop.

Santé


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

A big _merci_, Santé!
It is a very interesting shop...


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> A big _merci_, Santé!
> It is a very interesting shop...


The "merci" is for the team lescopeaux.asso.fr

Santé


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## lawrencel (Apr 26, 2010)

i like t track, but it is expensive. i purchased some on sale years ago, and have yet to use it. 
the alternative is to make your own, and that's what i normally do. there are a couple of ways to make your own, one is to use a t slot cutter, in combination with a straight bit, my usual method, usually in oak or mahogany. 
another option is to create the wide part of the t slot by spacing two pieces of 3/4" thick wood 3/4" apart, and then overlapping the 3/4" gap with two pieces of 1/4" thick material, such as masonite, to create the narrow part of the t slot 3/8" apart.
john nixon demonstrates this method in his video of a miter jig attachment for his table sled at eagle lake woodworking.
i also make my own t slot bolts using 5/16" carriage bolts whose heads i grind to fit into the t slot. the ground heads are rectangular, and with square portion of the shank under the head riding in the 3/8" gap, help prevent rotation of the t slot bolt in the t slot. i additionally use a lock washer over a washer under the t slot bolt knob when tightening the t slot bolt to help prevent the t slot bolt from digging in to my t slot.
hope that's helpful.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

T-track - 13 ft kit - $29.98

6 Pc. T-Track Super Savings Bundle


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## dirkost (Jul 8, 2009)

Hi Ho: Another way to make T-track is to use a hardboard cover with a smaller slot than the one in the material underneath. This desn't even require a T slot bit, just two straight bits. This is especially good where you use hardboad for a replaceable top--for example on a wookbench etc.

Dirk


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

T-Track over t-slots everytime. Get the better T-Track, the kind that's through bolted and it will make no difference if you use it in hardwood or soft. It won't come apart like the cheaper stuff that's just face screwed.


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## Frank Lee (Nov 29, 2008)

*" T -slots"*



sofasurfer said:


> Obviously T-track is better, smoother and more durable. But, does anyone have an opinion of a T-slot cut into the wood vs T-track? Did it work out for you or is it more trouble than its worth?


 Hi Sofasurfer, As far as I'm concerned, the "T" slots work as well as the T track in most cases, each has it's points that shine. If shipping time or $ are a concern, T slots are the answer, I M H O, hopes this helps.----I have used both. Your Forums Partner, Frank Lee, Kingman, Az.:big_boss:


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

*a composite alternative*

Cabinet Hardware - T-Track Extrusion 4'


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Interesting.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Mike Wingate said:


> A couple of my examples.


So what does this do besides spin? Do you use it for something or is it just a neat toy?


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Robert,

It's a model of a Scotch Yoke, a method of converting linear motion into rotary motion and vice-versa. It's got some advantages and disadvantages compared to an engine-style piston, crankshaft, connecting rod setup. Among it's advantages is much smoother operation. If you want more information you can go to Scotch yoke - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. 

I can *still* remember having to calculate all of the forces back in college... about 35 years ago. Can't remember how to do it, but remember having to. Blame it on my CRS disease!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Robet

I think this one is setup for Ovals 
You could fix a pencil or a router to it and it would do small ovals..

======= 



RJM60 said:


> So what does this do besides spin? Do you use it for something or is it just a neat toy?


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

RJM60 said:


> So what does this do besides spin? Do you use it for something or is it just a neat toy?


My Granddad used to make these and hand them out to people who were handing him a line of crap, like salesmen. He called them ":laugh:Bullshit Grinders"


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Swallow said:


> My Granddad used to make these and hand them out to people who were handing him a line of crap, like salesmen. He called them ":laugh:Bullshit Grinders"


I think this is the besat answer. :laugh:


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Thanks BigJim. As Bob says it can draw elipses. It is a mechanical device that is one of many that I use as examples of mechanisms and movement at school. Also an example of T-Slots.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Swallow said:


> My Granddad used to make these and hand them out to people who were handing him a line of crap, like salesmen. He called them ":laugh:Bullshit Grinders"


I think this is the besat answer. :laugh:


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## Jgor (Mar 15, 2010)

I haven't worked aluminum much myself (except for accidentally "modifying" a Rockler clamp - with no damage to the bit) but Sorin Nenu, the BobCAD trainer, says he's carved aluminum with a Bosch Colt router in a CNC machine. I've done some aluminum design with grinders and didn't like the material (left the wheel a mess) but I was using the wrong series. Some aluminum cuts cleaner than other.




MarcoBernardini said:


> Someone wrote aluminum is not too difficult to be worked, no more than really hard wood, and the price of raw aluminum is almost reasonable.
> I just made holes into aluminum, so I can't confirm this.
> Has someone here tried to cut T slots into it with a good router?


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## rjrose (Apr 15, 2010)

Hello all! I'm a relative noob. But, sometimes I do come up with winning ideas. Well, after looking all over for a convenient source of T-Track in my area (closest Rockler is 60 miles away, local HB store never has it, and wont get into the big box stores here), and being a boater living at the Jersey Shore, I've found an unlikely source for it. Junk boats. Yup, the tracks that are used for bimini tops are perfect. 3/4" wide, 1/2" deep, 5/16 slot,and stainless to boot! Theyre usually 24" long, and can be had at the junk boat collection yards for about $10.00 a pair! It works great for jigs, albeit a little harder to work with than aluminum, doesnt wear, and stays shiny. Just use a slow drill speed and some cutting oil when drilling hold down holes. Hope this helps.........Bob


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## Sqrhead (Mar 25, 2010)

I have used both. I found that the T-slots I made seemed to develop "memory" (perhaps I was tightening the fence too tight). Anyway, I have stopped using T-slots and now use strictly T-tracks for my router fence, jigs, etc. It is relatively inexpensive and can easily be cut to size. One thing I really like about it - if you damage it, you can replace it without rebuilding the router table!


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## Kral (Sep 30, 2009)

Most of my fixtures, including my router table and fence, are MDF; some with laminate surfaces. MDF, although very stable, can not withstand high stress. Consequently, I never use T-Slot cutters.


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## mudflippers (Jun 14, 2010)

sofasurfer said:


> BJ, Is there anything that you don't have pictures of?:sarcastic:
> I see that you are not shy about using oak for this purpose, but what other common woods would be recommended for this?


I use both ,don't find any differences.


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## KenKay (May 18, 2010)

I have used both but find the T-slot cut into the wood a cheaper way to go. It also develops your woodworking skills.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi,
I never use T-slot, I only use as curtain rails. I do not know if where you are, you can find the same I find here in Belgium .


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

Santé said:


> Hi,
> I never use T-slot, I only use as curtain rails. I do not know if where you are, you can find the same I find here in Belgium .


Curtain Rails!
That's a bonne idée, merci.


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## chevyman137 (Dec 19, 2009)

i have used both, i like t track for my router table but in most cases i have used a keyhole cutter to make most of my slots for my jigs and my drill press table, have also made aux. fences using keyhole cutter. if i had to by t track again it would probly be from rockler, there track accepts a wider range of bolt heads as to where mlcs is very limited


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Curtain rails we ave in Belgium are so.

M8 bolt head passes just in it en do not turn in it


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## lorinfm (Mar 20, 2010)

Hi! Ive not tried to cut an aluminum T-slot, but I did form an arc in peice of .25 2" angle in order to rap it around the column on my home made drill press table. I used a straight cutting non-carbide bit in a variable speed laminate trimmer. Part of the secret is low speed and oil on the peice as well as a good vacuum to collect the aluminum shavings which could damage tool armatures. The aluminum actually cuts almost like butter.


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## jimmurch (Aug 23, 2006)

My reaction to cutting a slot in wood is - only fair satisfaction with result. I had more success cutting the tract a bit over size and using a simple lubricant such as wax. 

Jim


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## geedub (Mar 20, 2006)

I use both. My router table fence uses t-slots cut in MDF and have been used for years without issue; drill press fence as well. These are used for featherboards and stop blocks NOT for clamping. This results in a 'pinching' sort of use as opposed to 'pulling' like on the drill press where I am clamping something down. I use track where there will be leverage or a lot of mount and un-mount action.


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## rappis (Dec 5, 2009)

*Custom Tracks*



sofasurfer said:


> No problem. Theres a million things I don't know.
> The reason I asked about this is that theres no where around here that I can buy T-track and I get tired of ordering stuff through the mail and waiting for it. And I am also always looking for less expensive ways of doing things. I don't mind a project costing a few bucks more than I expected but now days every part needed for a project is at a premium price and before you get a project completed you have a half weeks wages wrapped up in it.
> I'm going to try to make it to the recycle yard in the next couple days and see if there is any T-track getting scrapped out.


Aluminum T-tracks make durable adjustable hold-downs but have significant cost and practical application limitations. They are limited to the size of the available track or T-cutters. For many applications, particularly on fixtures, I find integrating the tracks into the design without aluminum track or t-slot cutter more appropriate with minimal expense. For most applications hold-downs, similar to T-slots, can be fashioned with dado cuts and carriage bolts most appropriate for your application. It does however require laminating the hold down surface. I find tempered massonite an appropriate laminate material for most applications. Simply cut a dado the width and depth of the carriage bolt head into the surface of the core material where tracks are required. Then laminate the surface with an appropriate material whose thickness is at least the height of the square shoulder of the carriage bolt to be used. The expansion characteristics of the core and laminate materials should be very similar and as stable as possible to avoid warping and/or delamination. After laminating the surface material to the core, cut slots in the surface material centered along the dados in the core to accommodate the bolt shank.


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## TanOak (May 31, 2010)

jmg1017 said:


> Get the better T-Track, the kind that's through bolted and it will make no difference if you use it in hardwood or soft. It won't come apart like the cheaper stuff that's just face screwed.


Can you elaborate on this please? Maybe give brand names or links representative of the two types? 

Thanks,
Jim


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## geedub (Mar 20, 2006)

I use both. My router fence rides in t-slots and I have not ever had a failure. The fence faces ave t-slots and also have never been an issue. The miter track is aluminum and works great. I have t-track on my DP table but t-slots on the fence for it. I also used track on this holddown thingy as the t-slot version failed under that (direct upward) kind of stress. This has been the only failure and was in BB ply which was probably dumb in the first place ;-)


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## Sqrhead (Mar 25, 2010)

I agree with jmg1017. I recently completed a new router table and used slotted T-Track for both the miter gauge slot and the fence adjustment slots. All were attached using through bolts and nuts.


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## UK Router Novice (Nov 9, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> We have a shop selling online a 18" Incra T-Track for 6.70 euro + shipping, and I think it is a really fair price.
> The problem is we (Europeans, not just Italians) are "metrocentrics"... and something requiring imperial size hardware could be a problem. In the same shop a single 1/4"-20 screw goes at 0.50 euro.
> A decent amount of bolts, nuts, etc. to make some jigs and fixtures will raise the price too much, and we also have to get dedicated spanners.
> I'm looking for a metric T-track, but it seems pretty difficult to find one.
> It would be a very smart move, for Incra, to make a metric version of their tracks: even if we are just a half a billion of people, I think there would be enough customers to justify a new product.


Marco,
Ciao - Same problems in the UK but we tend to have metric and imperial accessories avaialble. Rutland.co.uk sell T Track but it is very expensive. I am new to all this but will now try the hardwood, router straight cutter for cutting the dado and then T Slot cutter method as described by Gordan Janis (post 17)
Bongiorno,
Dennis aka DJB


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