# New Table Saw - Opinions Wanted



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

I've been using an old Beaver 8" saw for quite some time but have always considered upgrading.

My shop is in the basement and although I've got a DC attached to it, it's design does not lend itself to good dust collection.

I've got my eye on two used saws in my area for basically the same price ($450 Canadian)
Delta Unisaw (with 60 inch fence - General not Unifence)
220 V, 3HP motor

Bosch 4100 (with gravity rise stand) - 2 years old

The Unisaw would give me better dust control in the basement but:
I'd have to take it apart and get help to get it down there
I'd have to have a 220 circuit added
I do have shop space to accommodate the unisaw

The Bosch seems to be a well reviewed saw (my neighbor has one and loves his)
Could leave this in the garage as it folds up nicely, or
move it to the basement and could run it off 110
has a built-in shroud for dust collection

My only other concern is the direct drive on the Bosch - not sure how they hold up over time (I'm obviously used to a belt drive contractors saw)

All opinions are welcome - and you won't hurt my feelings either way :no:

Thanks
Vince


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> I've been using an old Beaver 8" saw for quite some time but have always considered upgrading.
> 
> My shop is in the basement and although I've got a DC attached to it, it's design does not lend itself to good dust collection.
> 
> ...


I have 2 TS in my shop. 
the main one is a craftsman 12" direct drive and a the second is the Bosch 4100
I took the fold up base off the Bosch for to mount it on a shop made cabinet. on casters
My main saw is the craftsman and it is also on a shop built cabinet on casters. Right now I have the Bosch set up with a freud boxcutter blades So I can cut on my craftsman and rabbit on the bosch. 
I like the little Bosch, I have all the accessories, extensions,digital fence etc, and it does good fairly accurate and smooth cutting with the Freud blade.
For years when I used one saw that if I had a set-up on one and had to make another cut, I had to take down the set up and make a cut and then re set up. This way I have a backup saw .

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Vince I absolutely hate dust so I'm liking the Delta choice especially considering its inside your house .
Once you reassemble it your going to have one hell of a saw . Kind of a nuisance at first but I don't think it's going to be that difficult to assemble and reassemble and have a better outcome once it's in place . Better fence to no?

If you were within a few hours of me I'd give you hand but I'm a little west of Ontario lol


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The unisaw doesn't collect dust that well either. I've heard that drilling extra holes in the insert plate helps but I think what would help the most is a dust hood over the blade as part of a blade guard.

Otherwise, you really aren't comparing apples to apples here Vince. The unisaw is like a Rolls Royce compared to the Bosch. I wouldn't trade mine for anything but another saw of equal size and quality, like a Powermatic 66 for example. I have an old Rockwell 10 inch for a backup and you can't really compare one to the other. If you go with the unisaw keep in mind that once you park it, it's probably there to stay. Mine hasn't moved a fraction of inch for the 15-20 years I've owned it. Just too big of a job. To get the full value of a saw that big you will want at least a 4' outfeed table too. Once I attached it I wouldn't do without it any more either. That's an incredible price for that saw by the way.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

this is a no brainer... get both...

I have both... but w/ Vega fences on the 3 circa 1944/46 Unisaws and 2 of the 4000's, 3 of the 4100's mounted in Roseau tables... have a Feldon too but that's not apples and oranges...
the Bosch is a great saw, nothing but it doesn't hold a candle to the Unisaw..FWIW the 4100 cost around 400USD new/reconditioned/full warranty...
the left and out feed supports are separate options..
never had an issue w/ any of the Boschs and that's after a lot different operators and a bazillion LF of cuts...
the Bosch is only going let you have 27½'' to the right of the blade... this saw has it limits but Uni won't...
it is infeed table adaptable...
for better DC on the Bosch.. pour on the CFM... see my down loads how I did one of them..

you know there are a whole slew of plans on the net for workstations for the Bosch...

Factory Reconditioned Bosch 4100-RT 10 in. Worksite Table Saw


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Herb:
Regardless of which one I get, I would keep the Beaver and set it up with a dado stack - it's got some sentimental value to me (was my dad's years ago)

Rick:
I hate dust too, which is why I'm considering the smaller saw for the garage as opposed to the basement. Thanks for the offer but I can probably find someone a little close but if you're ever this way I'll buy you a beer (or two). As a side note, my older girl used to live in Victoria (beautiful area) - I came out there a couple of times, when my grandson was born and when he turned 1. Luckily they've moved back to Ontario and are about an hour from me now. Much better than a 5 hour flight.

Chuck:
Good to know about the dust collection - I assumed that, being a cabinet saw with an enclosed base, the only dust I would have to worry about was above table. I know the two are not comparable saws - the Unisaw was the gold standard for a very long time notwithstanding the gold color of the Powermatic - you don't see many PM around here, especially used. I woodwork as a hobby so the Unisaw is only a nice-to-have, especially at that price. I've put a large 3' x 4' outfeed table with adjustable legs on my Beaver already so not an issue on that aspect. And it would have to go into the basement - I don't like to leave my car outside in the winter and the wife wouldn't even consider leaving hers out there  (We have a couple of BMWs)

Stick:
You don't have enough - you need to get at least one more 
Yea, price in Canada is a bit higher - the Bosch goes for $700 before tax, new at Lowes, with the gravity rise stand.
I usually use a circ saw/jig to break down wide/long sheets before heading to the TS, and anything long (shelves, etc) I use a sled.
If I got the Bosch and left it in the garage, I would keep it on its own stand. If it goes to the basement, I would build a workstation for it.
Glad to hear the Bosch can take that amount of work - was always concerned about the direct drive.
I'll def look up your downloads - have seen a few - you're a (cess) pool of information  

Thanks for the opinion guys - much appreciated.

Vince


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@vchiarelli...

Cess pool.... geeeeeeze...
But hey... I can relate...
the DC setup shown on the Bosch is inadequate... 
up the ante to a 6'' line to the bottom and a 4'' off the exhaust chute and you'll have something...

no reconditioned Bosch saws in Canada???


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @vchiarelli...
> 
> Cess pool.... geeeeeeze...
> But hey... I can relate...
> ...


Not in my area - Niagara Region (south of Toronto/north of Buffalo).
This isn't the a**hole of Canada, but you can see it from here.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

The uni saw is legendary. It probably weighs about the same as my Grizzly...450# shipping weight. Dismantling it would help a lot. Once the wings and fence are off, the cabinet is basically square. I guess you could remove the cast iron top also but I have no idea how to do that.
It would help to have a couple of friends to help get it down the stairs.

Good luck.
Mike


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> The uni saw is legendary. It probably weighs about the same as my Grizzly...450# shipping weight. Dismantling it would help a lot. Once the wings and fence are off, the cabinet is basically square. I guess you could remove the cast iron top also but I have no idea how to do that.
> It would help to have a couple of friends to help get it down the stairs.
> 
> Good luck.
> Mike


Mike I think there's spacers to make the blade perfectly perpendicular to the table at any angle so that may not be an option . I know they did that on my GI .

I like your idea of removing the wings and the motor would reduce the weight a bit .
Vince may find its best to get a moving cart for the main chassis . Or depending on the entrance , put some wood down on the steps and slide the behemoth down .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> The uni saw is legendary. It probably weighs about the same as my Grizzly...450# shipping weight. Dismantling it would help a lot. Once the wings and fence are off, the cabinet is basically square. I guess you could remove the cast iron top also but I have no idea how to do that.
> It would help to have a couple of friends to help get it down the stairs.
> 
> Good luck.
> Mike


4 bolts...
remove the fence rails...
remove the wings..
remove the top...
remove the motor.. optional...
reverse sequence to put it all together...

motor is at least a forth of the weight of the saw...
the basse alone isn't much...

before the top is reinstalled tune the saw for parallel to the miter slots...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

With mine out of the carton, three of us couldn't pick it up high enough to get it on to the Shop Fox mobile base. We finally had to wrastle it on by leaning and walking it on to the base. I think those other two guys weren't giving it all they had, Captain! :surprise::grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> With mine out of the carton, three of us couldn't pick it up high enough to get it on to the Shop Fox mobile base. We finally had to wrastle it on by leaning and walking it on to the base. I think those other two guys weren't giving it all they had, Captain! :surprise::grin:


Mines 453 lbs assembled and I had the same situation as you Mike . I could hardy move the base so we walked it to its resting place before assembling the wings and fence .
I think I would have gotten a furniture moving cart and 3 more guys if it went in my basement . I would definitely remove the motor as I agree with Stick it's a lot of the weight . Still a bit hesitant about removing the top though


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I've owned several table saws and my current one is the same as Stringer's. There is absolutely no comparison - a good cabinet saw is head and shoulders above a work site saw. That said, dust collection on any table saw is pretty lame. 

Mike, you're gonna hate this - I assembled my shopfox base for the G1023 around the saw cabinet. Just had to lever it up about 2 inches. Did it all by my lonesome... Of course, I had that brain wave AFTER I lifted my 15" planer onto a roller base (it weighs more than the G1023). Had 4 strong guys doing it, though.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Vince,

I have the Bosch because my Garage is small (at least my part of it) and the stand is a dream. I have not had the option for a decient TS in years. The Bosch beats all the cheap TS's hands down, but I would love to have the opportunity to have a decent TS. I think Sticks advise is best, get both and have all bases covered.

Bob


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> this is a no brainer... get both...
> ..
> it is infeed table adaptable...
> for better DC on the Bosch.. pour on the CFM... see my down loads how I did one of them..
> ...


Stick,

How do we find that down load about how you did one. I started looking through your bazillion down loads and don't expect to live long enough to find it.

Bob


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

old coasty said:


> Stick,
> 
> How do we find that down load about how you did one. I started looking t*hrough your bazillion down loads and don't expect to live long enough to find it.*
> 
> Bob


exactly....
the 'puter those pics are on toasted last Friday... 1.3TB of everything gone in a wink...

don't say I have never done anything for ya...
most all of the dust on the floor is from a boatload of freehand routering..


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## Bricknhank (Dec 28, 2013)

No brainer: Unisaw.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> exactly....
> the 'puter those pics are on toasted last Friday... 1.3TB of everything gone in a wink...
> 
> Oooops! Sounds familiar, and it does suck!
> ...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm with getting both on this deal. I popped for a Laguna Fusion a couple of years ago. Got the one with the 110 v motor and love it. Dust collection is extremely good on the Laguna and it was about 1300 U.S. I mention this because I think you'll be spending more than you think on the two saws, including getting an electrician to install the 220 line, and any above table dust collection as well. But that older model Delta was pretty much king of the hill for a very long time and if money isn't a big deal, its pretty much an irresistible deal.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Stick486 said:
> 
> 
> > exactly....
> ...


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

These two saws are in completely different leagues. For my money, I would go with the Unisaw, hands down.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> exactly....
> the 'puter those pics are on toasted last Friday... 1.3TB of everything gone in a wink...
> 
> *don't say I have never done anything for ya.*..
> most all of the dust on the floor is from a boatload of freehand routering..


Thanks Stick. No one can say that with all the great info that you provide.

Bob


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@stick - I have a program that can recover your data. If the drive will spin, it can read and recover it.

I can help if you want.

I found the website.
http://www.recovermyfiles.com/

Try it for free. If it discovers your files, then you can recover them by purchasing the activation key. It works. I have owned it for several years. I have the dongle so I can plug into any computer and rescue files. 

Just hook up your drive to your current PC and give it a test run.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I bookmarked that Mike for future use, I know I will need it someday.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> @stick - I have a program that can recover your data. If the drive will spin, it can read and recover it.
> 
> I can help if you want.
> 
> ...


thanks Mike...
that was my PC... if the HD spins I'll sled it and turn it into an external drive....
this LT is a vista model... now I remember why I always thought vista was/is a PITA/POS.......
but 1st comes a new computer... 
that's gonna take some time... I hear one more you need............
what ever happened to do you want a PC/DT or a LT.... I feel like I've entered the twilight zone...

I *want* reliable....
after that need is debatable...

dual boot.. Linux/W7...
mirrored..
AMD...
two processors... four would give me the giddies...
two monitor decent video....
some sort of DVD/CD/RW....
16GB + RAM
high capacity HD's.... duals would be acceptable....
hot swappable would be nicer yet...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

In the same boat Stick. I'm using my wife's laptop until I figure out what to do about mine that died. I'll have to look into Mike's recovery program. I had most of it backed up on an external but there were bookmarks and a few new things I would still like to get back.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> In the same boat Stick. I'm using my wife's laptop until I figure out what to do about mine that died. I'll have to look into Mike's recovery program. I had most of it backed up on an external but there were bookmarks and a few new things I would still like to get back.


one thing is for sure...
don't ask a salesman what is reliable...
My good LT shuts down because of over heating... WTB pet hair jamming the cooling fan and so far the LT has proven to be some kind of advanced chinese puzzle the refuses to open up...

if the HD isn't dead start here...
Ultra Aluminus USB 3.0 Super-Speed Portable Hard Drive Enclosure - 2.5 SATA HDD or SSD, Supports Up to 4TB, 5000Mbps, USB 3.0, Plug & Play, 3 Year Warranty with Registration at TigerDirect.com


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> schnewj said:
> 
> 
> > I'm on a clunker LT w/ 2GB RAM and a thimble sized HD...
> ...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Mike, thanks for the lead to the recovery software. I had saved a lot of PowerPoints and backed them up, but the hard drive and the CD both failed. They spin, but won't boot. Its an older Sony Viao.

Today I keep all data files on Dropbox, which updates the files on all my computers and on my daughter's as well. Have a terabyte of Dropbox space. I will give it a try and if I can recover the old Powerpoints, they will immediately go onto Dropbox. 

I run all XP at this time, but have purchased a couple of W 7 machines and will be using them for awhile. I have an old Access 2.0 app. I wrote a long time ago for medical client marketing. There is a big fine for running medical record software on an unsupported computer. So running the XP virtual machine in 7 should make it legal for a couple more years while I rework it, or have someone build it in another program. New Access is no longer compatible with the 2.0 files, so I may eventually have to convert data into the new format to run on the new version. I am not much of a fan of Micro$oft. I think Win8 was sold to Balmer as a way of forcing him out of the president's office. That worked out well because he is now retired. I think Microsoft made a big mistake switching to a new interface, although I understand there is another company that has a program that converts 8's tiles back to a 7 interface. 

Life would be so much easier if Microsoft would permit re-licensing Windows so you could replace a motherboard. As it is, I always clone the hard drive, then run the new drive and keep the old one just in case. I started doing that after retiring the Viao, so I don't have a backup drive. 

I have put the no longer bootable Viao drive into a pluggable drive gadget to try to read it (it spins), but I haven't been able to read it just using Windows on a working machine. I hope the software you suggested will read it because I am supposed to show one of the PowerPoints on Buster Keaton on the 31st, and I really don't want to rebuild it because it is full of edited film clips and historical pictures. So I'll try it tomorrow a.m.

I do wonder if I could read the drive I mentioned if I reset the jumpers to slave. It is an old IDE drive.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> thanks Mike...
> that was my PC... if the HD spins I'll sled it and turn it into an external drive....
> this LT is a vista model... now I remember why I always thought vista was/is a PITA/POS.......
> but 1st comes a new computer...
> ...


I have 14 servers and a few dual-boot workstations here. I support Linux and MS. My niche is getting them to work together. I really like Linux in being able to recover Windows machines and NTFS file systems. If I recommend to clients a common filessyem that "everything talks to", for a place to store something that will be shared, then I recommend storing shared data on NTFS. Windows 7? Still running it here on some things, but most on 8.1. Have a few on Windows 10 and Windows Server 2016. I have to say, Windows 10 still has problems here (a few bugs to work out).

My new system is has Opteron 6386 16 core processors and is maxed at 512GB RAM. Those procs are 140 watt each. My video cards (x2) are 140 wattt each. Cooling was a consideration. And it is a consideration for hot swap drives. I have a few 4 drive Hot swap cages... and I had to add extra fans to keep the drive cool. I use WD Red Enterprize drives rated to run as more than 8 drives in close proximity. (rated for high heat applications.) 3 of my servers have 10 hot swap drives each...

If you go Win 7, go Win 7 Professional. install it first, then your Linux Distro. Install will vary a bit if the motherboard is UFFI BIOS.

Back to the Table Saw... Delta UniSaw is hard to beat for the price... You know I went from a Rockwell to a Laguna TSS. It was a good investment. I spent 4 years researching different saws before buying what I did. Even though it cost me a lot of hard-earned money and I now feel spoiled by it-- it has not paid for itself yet.

The concern on the Dust Collection on the Uni is negligable with an overhead guard with DC and DC from the cabinet. <-- That is what I use on my TSS. (Though my Overhead is not from a TSS)

Yes... I read the first post and saw 8"... It brought back memeories... but hard to get *" blades for any reasonable price anymore. 10" is common place now.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Sorry, I should have updated this thread.
@MAFoElffen
Mike

the overhead guard would certainly help with above table dust collection but that would mean additional expense. As far as 8" blades go, I've got a couple but also use circ saw blades.

As an update, the Unisaw was such a good deal it was sold before I had a chance to look at it, and the Bosch 4100 was too beat up for the price the seller was asking.

Having said that, an electrician confirmed what I had been thinking; my panel is full (Federal Pioneer) and a sub panel is not cost effective, so I can't even add a 220 circuit. I plan to have my entire panel replaced (something I've been thinking about for a couple of years anyway) but that won't happen for a few months. It will give me more time to keep looking and more options when I do find something.


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