# bisquit joiner or pocket pole jig



## AVman (Apr 23, 2008)

Ok I have seen some of the merits of both technologies and it seems like they are the same strength. So I am trying to decide which one to go with. Right now my thoughts are pushing me to buy the one that is faster to set up and use to get projects knocked out. What are your thoughts and experiences with both?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

If you want speed go with the pocket hole way  no wait time for the glue to set up and no clamps needed the norm..so to speak..

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AVman said:


> Ok I have seen some of the merits of both technologies and it seems like they are the same strength. So I am trying to decide which one to go with. Right now my thoughts are pushing me to buy the one that is faster to set up and use to get projects knocked out. What are your thoughts and experiences with both?


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## AVman (Apr 23, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> If you want speed go with the pocket hole way  no wait time for the glue to set up and no clamps needed the norm..so to speak..
> 
> ========


So what about alignment with face frames and the such where the pieces have to be in the same plane?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Most kits come with a clamp just for that job..

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&no...r-20&hvadid=3029586591&ref=pd_sl_19b1q5nvf5_e
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AVman said:


> So what about alignment with face frames and the such where the pieces have to be in the same plane?


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Comparing biscuits to pocket holes is like comparing apples to oranges. Biscuits do not add any appreciable strength to the joint. They just make alignment easier whereas pocket holes are easy to assemble and make a very strong joint. It really boils down to what you are looking for... ease of alignment or strong joints.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

I agree George & BJ... I generally prefer pocket holes over biscuits (like you, I have both) I'd just add that pocket holes are much faster *assuming* the hole will be hidden or you don't care that it shows. If, in addition to installing the pocket hole cover plug and waiting for the glue to dry you must trim & sand the plug back to flush, it can take longer. Lots of strength though!


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## AVman (Apr 23, 2008)

I am really starting to lean to the pocket jig. I am liking the idea that I can put something together quickly. And even finish assemble cabinets quickly.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

It depends what you are joining. I made some units for the office in melamine faced particle board recently to match some other stuff and biscuits were a better option, as screws don't hold well in that. Biscuits are also better for side by side joints that don't suit pocket hole joinery. The Elu knocked them out very quickly.

Cheers

Peter


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

AVman..

I've used both, and come to let dust collect on a very good dewalt jointer.. The first few cabinets I made with pocket holes I was absolutely amazed. First and foremost, the strength of the joint was/is amazing. Even butt joints.. A flat surface and a clamp is all you need to align up your work. 
Peter up there makes a good pint about the material your joining!!!!! I will say though i've done side by side joints with great success. They were only 18"x 10 though mind ya... using 3"w boards..
I heard the norminator comment one time about biscuits "swelling" and creating imperfections on the finish product. Never happened to me,, but something think about.. All in all,,, pocket joints get my vote..and with an ever increasing variety of accessories becoming available...its looking like a good shop investment


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

They each have their uses. I have both and use the pocket hole far more than the biscuits. Some say the PH is an ugly joint, there are ways of hiding that joint quite easy and with little effort. As mentioned, with PH, no need to wait for the glue to dry.


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## RStaron (Sep 25, 2009)

I'd go with the pocket hole jig. Face frames are a breeze and flat. I have one of the original Kreg jigs and am thinking of up grading to the new version.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

The older model ( 2000 ) is better than the newer one 

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RStaron said:


> I'd go with the pocket hole jig. Face frames are a breeze and flat. I have one of the original Kreg jigs and am thinking of up grading to the new version.


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## AVman (Apr 23, 2008)

All,
Thanks for all of the great input. I fill mostly be joining hardwood faces and fastening them to plywood carcases. Although I am starting to see the uses in many other projects that I originally thought of as time consuming. I am currently looking at the Kreg K3 Master System. And let me get this right all the jig is doing is making the pocket hole and not pilot drilling. Is this correct. Is pilot drilling necessary? and what size screws are you using. I will mostly be joining 3/4 stock.


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## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

I have both, and use both most of the time on large projects, on Suz's birdcage project
Bird cage I used biscuits to help align everything up and pocket holes to pull it all together. It made for an exceptionaly strong assembly. 

Don't ask me how I know the assembly is strong :blink:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

"the jig is doing is making the pocket hole and not pilot drilling."

You got it  the screw will do all the work...
I use the pocket hole screws and dry wall screws,the norm , 1 1/2" long the norm but I use T & G most of the the time..they slip off to one side of the joint...
Many will say the dry wall will not work well but they do..after all it's just a clamp.once the glue sets up the screw is done with it's work more or less...I will note I will pre drill some holes in thin hardwood/MDF/plywood ( 1/2" ) 


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AVman said:


> All,
> Thanks for all of the great input. I fill mostly be joining hardwood faces and fastening them to plywood carcases. Although I am starting to see the uses in many other projects that I originally thought of as time consuming. I am currently looking at the Kreg K3 Master System. And let me get this right all the jig is doing is making the pocket hole and not pilot drilling. Is this correct. Is pilot drilling necessary? and what size screws are you using. I will mostly be joining 3/4 stock.


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## RStaron (Sep 25, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> The older model ( 2000 ) is better than the newer one
> 
> =============


Why is that, Bob? have you had problems with the newer one? From what I've seen it would be more versatile than the older one. One thing I'm not to keen on is the unit is made out of plastic.Any pros and cons would be helpful. I sure hope plastic nails don't catch on that would put me and some others out of a job.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

The old ones comes with many more items.see below..and a rework is easy.


http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/5668-kreg-k2000-update.html

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RStaron said:


> Why is that, Bob? have you had problems with the newer one? From what I've seen it would be more versatile than the older one. One thing I'm not to keen on is the unit is made out of plastic.Any pros and cons would be helpful. I sure hope plastic nails don't catch on that would put me and some others out of a job.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I used biscuits once, and think pocket hole joints look terrible. I prefer to just glue the joint. It's going to be stronger than the wood anyway.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Like Curious George says apples to oranges when comparing the 2 units. I use both when cabinet making, however I disagree on the strengthening of the joint.

If all you do is glue the face joints of the 2 sections of a project then he's correct the biscuit basically facilitates alignment. If you spread glue into the biscuit slots as well as the face joints then you are increasing the depth/area of the glue surface.

A biscuit joint is little different than a tongue and groove joint when the slots are glued.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Ghidrah said:


> Like Curious George says apples to oranges when comparing the 2 units. I use both when cabinet making, however I disagree on the strengthening of the joint.
> 
> If all you do is glue the face joints of the 2 sections of a project then he's correct the biscuit basically facilitates alignment. If you spread glue into the biscuit slots as well as the face joints then you are increasing the depth/area of the glue surface.
> 
> A biscuit joint is little different than a tongue and groove joint when the slots are glued.


I did not say it didn't add any strength. I said it didn't appreciably add strength. Tests have proven that the biscuit joint is probably the weakest of all except maybe the butt joint.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just my 2 cents

Glue is glue and that is all it is. but if you put in a mechanical fastener, (pocket screw) the joint will not let the glue joint break down... it's like if you left the clamp in place,that you can't do with the biscuits way...

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## RStaron (Sep 25, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> The older model ( 2000 ) is better than the newer one
> 
> =============


The one I have is older than that even. It's a K-2


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

If all you're after is strength in a joint, then either use the T&G or M&T methods. But, this takes away from the OP which is, biscuit joint or pocket hole jig. The fastest and easiest is the PHJ.


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

I use both. I have a kreg master system and I use it when ever I can. It's fast and makes a very strong joint. I tend to glue up a lot of panels and I like to use the biscut jointer for that, it helps with alignment like everyone says and anything that creates less sanding and planing I like. Wether or not it makes the joint stronger I don't know, I feel that it does. I don't ever remember having joints fail (but the memories not as good as it used to be) modern glues hold well. Failures in my experience are more likely to be along the grain than the glue joint.
If you could only afford one I would choose the pocket hole jig. You don't really need biscuts to join panels, for me it just makes the job easier.
Wayne


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## Schechner (Oct 13, 2009)

My answer is: both. I agree with Ken that they both have their unique uses. The only place I would find them interchangeable is assembling a face frame. The pocket holes would be hidden, and the frame doesn't lend any strength to the unit, so the biscuits would suffice.

To be honest, I would get both a biscuit joiner and a pocket hole jig. The Kreg jig is a beautiful thing, and you can usually find it on sale for around $30. Look around for a used biscuit joiner - I got a good Freud for $50 and I love it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You can use the items below on your router table ( for biscuits) plus you can make your own pocket jig for the router table or the hand type router for peanuts.
see my Gallery for the how to 

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

G1438 Slitting Saw Arbor

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Schechner said:


> My answer is: both. I agree with Ken that they both have their unique uses. The only place I would find them interchangeable is assembling a face frame. The pocket holes would be hidden, and the frame doesn't lend any strength to the unit, so the biscuits would suffice.
> 
> To be honest, I would get both a biscuit joiner and a pocket hole jig. The Kreg jig is a beautiful thing, and you can usually find it on sale for around $30. Look around for a used biscuit joiner - I got a good Freud for $50 and I love it.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Bob

Did you mean you can make your own pocket jig for the router table or a biscuit joining jig?
I've a very simple pocket hole jig and was intrigued by all your add ons for the Kreg one in the link you gave.

Cheers

Peter


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Peter

Pocket jig for the router table 
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2470-pocket-hole-jig-router-table.html

But you can put biscuit slots in easy with the router table..
For peanuts
http://www.routerforums.com/39933-post11.html
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istracpsboss said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> Did you mean you can make your own pocket jig for the router table or a biscuit joining jig?
> I've a very simple pocket hole jig and was intrigued by all your add ons for the Kreg one in the link you gave.
> ...


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