# wax, oil, laquer



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

I want to use wax (beeswax and mineral oil) on red oak. I am thinking of putting a coat or two of water-based acrylic lacquer over the wax to give further protection. Can this be done? Will it really add protection? Will the answer be the same with other woods?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm betting not much will stick too the beeswax...
you might want to experiment some 1st so there's no doubt as to what's gonna happen...
make sure the test pieces get some sun...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Absolutely not, Hank; worst possible scenario other than maybe Silicone contamination.
Totally incompatible, as Stick suggested.
Even the other way 'round would be a problem as the mineral oil and beeswax are supposed to soak into the wood
In finishing, waxing is the final step. If you need to re-coat the wax and oils must be stripped off.

Wax Wash™ Remover - Mohawk Finishing


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I think the others are right about this, don't do it. Is this going to be on a cutting board you made?


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

Got the message - it's a no-no.
Right now I'm working on shelves in the bedroom. The question was more general - I like working with wax and oil when they bring out the color of the wood that I like - don't need multiple coats with sanding between them. I was hoping to get some extra protection. Oh well, so much for that idea.
Thanks for the help.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I use boiled linseed oil, which I wipe off well and let dry for a week, followed by a coat of wax free shellac, and then gel stain followed by several coats of poly, of course lightly sanding between each step. I've never had any problems when following these steps, but mineral oil and bees wax don't dry hard like BLO does. I'll bet that no finish on top of it will work. Can't you put the bees wax and mineral oil combination on last and rub it out real thin?

Charley


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

there isn't much if anything at all that will stick to wax, oils or water...
exclude cured tung and BLO


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

CharleyL; man, that brought back memories of HS woodworking! 
I got to _hate_ rubbing stuff down with rotten-stone. Who came up with that idea anyway? 
Lee Valley Tools - Hand Rubbing with Pumice and Rottenstone
MediEVIL, that stuff is...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

my father...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Noah? Really?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

as much as we used it..
I just figured he did or his father did...
still have some od the original cans of it...

how come I always got elected to to do all the sanding, rubbing out, adze work, hand planing, ice jamb clearing, felling. skidding, barking, concrete finishing, wheel barrower, stocking, hodding, sifting, pick and shovel work......................


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Cause you live alone?
Barking? Makes sense considering your fishing buddy...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

no, as a kid as my old man's sole labor crew... 
in later years I found a crew of subcontractors...

barking.. stripping the bark from logs before turning them into lumber...


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## shopsmithtom (Aug 7, 2009)

I've worked with red oak often & my favorite process for a good natural look that enhances the tones of the oak is boiled linseed oil, wipe on, let soak, wipe off, let dry and then whatever top coat that will suit the project. The BLO really gives the oak a wonderful warm tone. 
Top coats might include, polyurethane (not water based), amber shellac, original Waterlox, or a home made mix ot BLO, mineral spirits & polyurethane.


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

shopsmithtom said:


> I've worked with red oak often & my favorite process for a good natural look that enhances the tones of the oak is boiled linseed oil, wipe on, let soak, wipe off, let dry and then whatever top coat that will suit the project. The BLO really gives the oak a wonderful warm tone.
> Top coats might include, polyurethane (not water based), amber shellac, original Waterlox, or a home made mix ot BLO, mineral spirits & polyurethane.


Thanks. I just bought some BLO and will try on a scrap piece, next to the water-based poly fie:, mineral oil and beeswax/mineral oil paste. I plan to finish the project towards the end of the month and will let you know how it turns out.


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## shopsmithtom (Aug 7, 2009)

If it wasn't mentioned before, remember that BLO rags need to be opened up & hung up to dry, NOT bunched up in the waste container.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> CharleyL; man, that brought back memories of HS woodworking!
> I got to _hate_ rubbing stuff down with rotten-stone. Who came up with that idea anyway?
> Lee Valley Tools - Hand Rubbing with Pumice and Rottenstone
> MediEVIL, that stuff is...



I hated doing that too, and haven't done it since. 

If the last finish applied is poly, I choose either gloss or satin. When the last coat is wax I use Johnson's Paste Wax and then just rub buff that to get the sheen that I want.

Charley


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charley; that's a sweet looking loco in your picture! Is it yours?! Lucky guy!!! 
(Can you post some pics...the members _love_ 'old' locos.)


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

shopsmithtom said:


> If it wasn't mentioned before, remember that BLO rags need to be opened up & hung up to dry, NOT bunched up in the waste container.



I agree, and I have been known to hang my finishing oil rags (BLO, Tung Oil, etc) on a chain link fence to dry (previous shop location), but you can also soak them in a pail of water or place them in an empty metal container with a metal lid that completely closes the container but will not seal it so well that vapor pressures cannot escape. A 2 gallon galvanized garbage pail like container with a lid works very well for this. I now keep my pail about 1/2 full of water and throw the rags directly into the water when I've finished using them. Curing oils like BLO and Tung Oil will react with air to dry, but in the process this reaction gives off heat. If a rag soaked in one of these oils is left bunched up, the reaction, without free air circulation, will build heat in the rag very rapidly. After they soak in water for a day or so I wring my rags out and then throw them in the trash wet. The water and time seem to stop the reaction safely.

I had once left a BLO soaked rag sitting on my workbench, while attending to the application of BLO to a tricky and highly detailed carved piece of a project that I was finishing about 15 years ago. When I picked the rag up off the workbench to use it again, the rag was so hot that I burned my hand, but fortunately not seriously. If it had been left there for another hour or so longer it would likely have caught on fire.

Be careful when using curing type oils or actually oils of any kind. If you don't, you may be looking for or building a new shop and buying all new tools. 

Another thing to be very careful of is *steel wool*. If it becomes an electrical conductor, it will catch fire very quickly (think sparklers on Independence Day). A voltage from just a small flashlight battery can do it. Keep covers over your electric outlets if they are above where you are working too. A friend had a fire in his shop because he didn't have covers on his electric outlets just above and behind his workbench. He was using a steel wool buffing wheel in a drill on a project at his workbench. Pieces of steel wool got into the electric outlet, and the result was that his workbench surface suddenly became a flash bulb. Fortunately, his water faucet and garden hose were connected and just outside his shop door.

Charley


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Dan,

I'll post more about the train later, but right now I have to leave for a few hours.
The train is not mine (I wish), but I drive it part time 2-3 days / week, 6-7 hours / day.
A very fun, low stress, part time job.

Charley


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

OK, here are more pictures of the train, and the ""soon to be" assembled carousel. I didn't expect that anyone would notice my new avatar so quickly. 

The carousel is 2 stories high with horses up as well as down. This picture of it was taken just before it was dismantled to be moved here. On the day that I took the pictures of the train, my buddy Jim was driving, and I just happened by with the camera one day last August and took the pictures. The park is only about 4 miles from my home, and half way to my son's place on the other side of town from my home, so I go by it often, even if not working that day.

This train was built by Chance Rides in Kansas City in 1991. They have made about 600 of them since 1960 and you will find them in many amusement parks around the world. Ours has a 4 cylinder Continental Industrial engine (forklift engine) and a hydro static drive, so forward/reverse and the speed is controlled by just one lever, kind of like a garden tractor. All of the small wheels on the engine are powered, but the big center wheel and piston arms are just for show and are not powered. They move, but don't power the train. All of the smaller wheels on the 3 cars as well as the engine have brake shoes that are applied with air pressure, much like the real trains. The train engine looks like a wood burner, but it runs on gasoline. However, they also make this engine with a diesel, and I saw a Youtube video of one with real steam power. Inside the boiler of this engine is a compressed air tank for operating the brakes and the whistle. It has a sander that distributes to all of the small wheels of the engine when needed for traction. The real sand box is under the boiler and the sand dome on top of the boiler with the large copper lines running down to the large wheels are just for appearance. The continental motor is below the cab area of the engine and the wood box / seat is above where the radiator, fuel tank, and air compressor are located. The rear end of the engine (below the seat) is louvered to allow air flow through the radiator just inside. Do a search on Youtube for "Chance Rides Train", "The Safari Train", "Cabin John train ride" or "C P Huntington" to see other trains like this one. C P Hintington is the name of the real wood burning steam engine that this engine was patterned after. The real C P Huntington is in the California State Transportation Museum.

On level ground with just a few cars these train rides can reach about 35 mph, but on our kind of "Alpine like" hilly run we are lucky to pull three fully loaded cars with about 75 people up our steepest hills, and rarely achieve more than about 10 mph, even on our longest straight sections of track. 

This train ride opens on weekends only through April and May, then runs 7 days per week until September when it returns to weekend only run until the end of October. Each ride lasts 10-15 minutes right now, but there is a rumor that we might soon be using all of the extra rail that came with the train to extend the track along a creek green way from this park to another smaller park about a mile Northeast of this one, tying both parks together with the train ride. Right now, it's just a rumor. Maybe next year. 

A typical day is two shifts, one from 9 AM until 2 PM, and then second shift from 2 PM until 7:30 PM, or if on a Summer Friday or Saturday when movies or a stage show is scheduled, it will run until the show begins. We don't run the train in the rain. When the rails are wet, even with sand, it's very difficult to climb the hills with a full train.

We decorate the entire park with lights and displays for Christmas during November, and then the train runs every evening from 5 PM until 11 PM or the last willing passenger from November 27 until Christmas, giving the riders a Christmas Wonderland ride through all of the lighted decorations in the park. Tickets are $1.50 per person and infants up to 2 years ride free. The kiddie splash pad and the carousel will all be the same price. The front section of the first car is designed to accept a wheelchair, with safety latches and a long seat belt, and a folding ramp on the right side of the car unfolds for loading and unloading. 

I've always loved trains, so getting the chance to take this part time job was kind of a no-brainer for me, and I went back to work running it, after being retired for 16 years. If the carousel was in operation I would be running it too, probably running the carousel one day and the train another day each week. 

Charley


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