# Wall Cabinet Design Help



## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I would like to build a wall cabinet in the hall just off the kitchen to store large kitchen gear, e.g. crock pot, waffle iron, large pots, etc.
I am attaching a couple of pictures and would appreciate your thoughts and ideas. There is baseboard heat at the bottom of the area and would like to leave the bench where it is. I will build out of red oak cabinet grade ply to match kitchen cabinets.
Space dimensions: 
Wall with key hooks. Door trim to corner is 40 1/2".

Wall with picture. Corner trim to corner is 20".

Ceiling height is 92".

Exterior Door is Left Hand Inswing.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

My initial thought would be to make it look like the other cabinets in the kitchen...just for consistency...

Other thoughts would be about leaving the bench underneath it...will it become a "head-banger"...?

In considering the size (width) it would be important to think about how far the door needs to open...that will help to drive the width...maybe 36" might allow the door to swing a bit more...? Swinging the door too far would put the corner of the cabinet into the glass...

Might not have helped directly to your question...but just some things to consider in your design...


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Thank You. I can't remember ever sitting on the bench....just pile junk on it. Also, the bench limits how wide the exterior door can open now so I figure if the cabinet doesn't extend past the bench the door glass won't hit the new cabinet. I will follow the basic design of the existing kitchen cabinets i.e. face frame, rail and stile doors (I bought the router bits when I had to rebuild one of the existing doors).
Just not sure how tall to make the new cabinet. Good place for a corner cabinet but I would like to get more space than what a corner cabinet would provide.


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

If you never sit on the bench why not take it out and do cabinet that sits on the floor. That will give a lot more storage space. A red oak wall hanging cabinet won't match the dark bench.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I agree with Dennis on taking the bench out. If you make a unit with a lower cabinet for heavier items, then a space in the middle to "replace" the function your bench currently provides and then a top section for lighter items, it may serve you better than a hanging cabinet...all one unit, of course.

You said you have 20" between frame and corner...you might want to make the lower cabinet wider and then bring it in for the upper cabinet (old country kitchen style)...the entire 20" for the lower and maybe 15 or 16 for the upper.

Seems like you may have several options.

For the hot air vent at the base, you could channel it out the bottom of the lower part of the unit and still provide it's heat/air into the room rather than blocking it...some 4 inch rectangular ducting would take care of that...


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

There is a baseboard heater behind the bench. Not sure how far away a cabinet would have to be in order not to interfere with the heat output.


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## OttoW (Feb 13, 2016)

Is the kitchen just to the right of the picture? 

Is there any way to remove the (looks like) door between the sections and just expand the kitchen cabinets so it flowed well? 

If not I would be more inclined to go floor to ceiling with a pantry style build and bump the heater out to the front of the new pantry.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Kitchen is to the right. The trim at the edge of the wall that has the picture is the door frame from the kitchen into the hall area. The refrigerator is on the other side of the wall that has the picture. The baseboard heater is forced hot water so moving it is doable but I'd rather not. I suppose I could extend the cabinet to the floor and leave the bottom area open to channel the heat outwards?


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

This is one of those perfect projects for Sketchup, Jim. You can create the walls and then try various ideas and sizes of cabinets to see how they look and fit. You don't even have to be a Sketchup expert. Just use basic block shapes and you'll get a good feel for dimensions and appearance and which way the cabinets should face.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The baseboard heater will require a certain amount of clearances which should be in the specs for the heater. Try to find that model online at the manufacturer's website and see what the spec sheet says about it or find something very similar and go with that.


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## OttoW (Feb 13, 2016)

I would worry about trapping any hot air from the heater under a cabinet. I would think about designing it to allow the air to flow around it. 

Sketchup. I like the idea of trying different designs. As I'm still very much in the learning stages I think it would be a fun idea to have a sketchup section where members could post up their challenges and others can post different solutions. For expample you could do a basic sketch of the location and we could post versions of what we would build. I'm on a mini holiday away from home but I would be willing to do a sketch when I get back.


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## wags999 (Nov 6, 2013)

They actually make a toe space heater that connects to your hot water heat system. Has it's own thermostat and fan. I also would build a base and a wall, gives you more storage and will fit in looks wise. Good Luck.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

how about something like this...
this obfuscated some berserk compound angles..
what's up w/ the laid over pictures...
how do we fix this...

.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

JIMMIEM said:


> There is a baseboard heater behind the bench. Not sure how far away a cabinet would have to be in order not to interfere with the heat output.


More pictures please.

Does the baseboard heater actually have a vent under/behind the bench?

Edi: Never mind. Found them. :frown: 
*What is the actual working space of the two walls (don't include the door trim)?

Floor to ceiling height?*

I might be able to tinker with it later this evening.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here ya go, Stick. Mikey to the rescue!
There's no charge for our friendly service! :surprise::grin::grin::grin:


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

MT Stringer said:


> More pictures please.
> 
> Does the baseboard heater actually have a vent under/behind the bench?
> 
> ...


Baseboard heater is part of the forced hot water heating system....copper pipe running through fins. Protrudes 3 " out from the wall and runs from floor up 7". 
Wall with the key holder has 40 1/2" working space from exterior door trim to the corner. Wall with the picture has 20" working space from the doorway trim to the corner. Floor to ceiling height is 92". Exterior door is Left Handed Inswing.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Nice looking cabinets. I wasn't thinking anything that fancy.....just simple cabinets.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Here ya go, Stick. Mikey to the rescue!
> There's no charge for our friendly service! :surprise::grin::grin::grin:


Thanks Mike...
so how did you do it...

it doesn't really shoe but the toe kick is now a register for forced air...
this type og cabinet could be held up off of the floor to accommodate the WW baseboard...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> Thanks Mike...
> so how did you do it...


I saved the pics to my hard drive. Then I used an old photo program (BreezeBrowser) to rotate them, and resave...and repost.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

check..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I would agree with Otto and build floor to ceiling. It will give you lots of storage and fit right in. By moving the baseboard heater to the front it should workout fine.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

He' got a hot water rad on that wall - haven't seen one in ages (my dad used to install those ages ago) but I remember they give off a lot of heat in all directions - not sure I'd want to trap that heat under/behind a cabinet. 

As stick said, maybe raise the cabinet off the floor - you might be able to include some sort of grill on the front if you can't move the radiator.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here are some pics of an Armoire I am fixin' to build for my grand daughter. She asked for something to hang clothes in. This is almost the right size for your corner.

It is 72 inches tall x 36 inches wide x 18 inches deep. Something like this could be easily modified for shelves. Then maybe raise it up 8-10 inches on some sort of base to clear the heater.

Note: The base molding drawing is from another project but will be the same for my project.

Wow! Look what I found! This pantry appears to besitting in the same type of corner.
http://www.houzz.com/photos/96086/Showroom-Display-traditional-kitchen-boston


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Found another idea. Open base design.
Radiant Home in Oakville (1443) - Traditional - Kitchen - toronto - by Braam's Custom Cabinets

Actually, I like this design. Build it against the widess wall. I think it would look nice.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Hmmm...more ideas
Kitchen Pantries & Organizers


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is the Sketchup file of your blank slate. :grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

is this what your baseboard looks like???
is it on an interior or exterior wall...

.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> is this what your baseboard looks like???
> is it on an interior or exterior wall...
> 
> .


Yes, that is what t looks like. If you look at the second picture that I posted you can see the end of it just past the end of the bench. It is on the exterior wall. It is part of the central forced hot water heating system. All baseboard units are on exterior walls in all rooms throughout the house.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I copied the drawing of the Armoire into my drawing of the blank slate.
Here is what it would look like. It could be modified as needed including raising the bottom or whatever.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I was looking at my wall and 36" wide X 18" deep would be a good fit. I'll check with my HVAC guy re: baseboard clearance vs relocation. Are your component dimensions available for copying?


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

36" wide X 18" deep would be good use of my space..


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

JIMMIEM said:


> I was looking at my wall and 36" wide X 18" deep would be a good fit. I'll check with my HVAC guy re: baseboard clearance vs relocation. Are your component dimensions available for copying?


They can be. IF you decide to build something like this, I will make up a cut list for ya.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

How about handling the heat by putting a metal right angle sheet of metal, plus a little insulation between the metal and cabinet bottom. Raise the floor of the cabinet bottom sufficiently to let the heat out and put a vent cover across the kick panel. A little easy metal work would do it. Might even put in a little fan to keep the air moving.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

These drawings are pretty accurate showing the actual size of 20 x 36 x 72.
I added some shelves which can be modified as needed.
Still need to work out the bottom.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

pull all of the metal but not the metal on the wall...
remove the tube vanes..
cover w/ at least two layers of better pipe insulation...
put a cabinet in front of it..
leave the left back corner (small square) of the cab's toe kick open to vent residual heat...

.









pull the metal...
remove the vanes..
cut into the tube...
w/ shark-bites add flex lines a.d install a flat panel radiator on the left side of the cab...

.
















.
remove the front cover and gate...
build a cab base w/ this theme in mind only not as tall

.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Thank You for taking the time to do this!!!


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> pull all of the metal but not the metal on the wall...
> remove the tube vanes..
> cover w/ at least two layers of better pipe insulation...
> put a cabinet in front of it..
> ...


Decisions, decisions.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

build the cab w/ a ventilated base away from the wall and short of the ceiling...
leave the side open that towards the door...
let the heat rise out the top...
put thermal barrier on the wall and back of the cab...


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> build the cab w/ a ventilated base away from the wall and short of the ceiling...
> leave the side open that towards the door...
> let the heat rise out the top...
> put thermal barrier on the wall and back of the cab...


Ah, the path of least resistance?


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I wouldn't be concerned with trying to match the existing coverage since the cabinet will be in another room. Also the space is very small so I would build it on the 20 inch wall and I would go from floor to ceiling. I would put two doors on the top and two doors on the bottom. I would make it about 12 inches deep which is the same depth as a typical wall cabinet fact there is baseboard heating really doesn't enter into the problem hot water does not get hot enough to damage anything in the small amount of space that you will be losing will not cause of heat loss problem in the room. In designing the doors I would make them to proportion with a lower ones being much taller than the other ones. I would paint the cabinets to match whatever trim or walls are in the room one last thing I would build a complete cabinet with pocket hole screws by doing it that way you should be able to knock the cabin it off in a half a day or less.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

mgmine said:


> I wouldn't be concerned with trying to match the existing coverage since the cabinet will be in another room. Also the space is very small so I would build it on the 20 inch wall and I would go from floor to ceiling. I would put two doors on the top and two doors on the bottom. I would make it about 12 inches deep which is the same depth as a typical wall cabinet fact there is baseboard heating really doesn't enter into the problem hot water does not get hot enough to damage anything in the small amount of space that you will be losing will not cause of heat loss problem in the room. In designing the doors I would make them to proportion with a lower ones being much taller than the other ones. I would paint the cabinets to match whatever trim or walls are in the room one last thing I would build a complete cabinet with pocket hole screws by doing it that way you should be able to knock the cabin it off in a half a day or less.


I was hoping to get more storage space than a 12" X 20" cabinet would provide.....that's why I was thinking put it on the longer wall and make it 18" deep X 36" wide.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> I saved the pics to my hard drive. Then I used an old photo program (BreezeBrowser) to rotate them, and resave...and repost.


Clever! Wouldna thunkit.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> Found another idea. Open base design.
> Radiant Home in Oakville (1443) - Traditional - Kitchen - toronto - by Braam's Custom Cabinets
> 
> Actually, I like this design. Build it against the widess wall. I think it would look nice.


What a coincidence. Braams...1.5km. from me. South Oakville. Very posh.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I see you used sketchup. Did you learn from a book? I bought Sketchup for Dummies and have been reading and playing around. The book is ok but I'm wondering if you found a better learning source? Thank You.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm thinkin' 36" Wide X 36" High X 16" Deep. Width and Depth would leave a 4" wide wall space between cabinet side and door trim and cabinet face and other door trim. Face frame cabinets with overlay doors. What size face frame rails and stiles? 3" top rail to leave room for crown molding, 2" bottom rail, and 2" stiles.....wall stile left long for scribing to wall, other stile routed flush with cabinet side? Door rails and stiles tbd. I bought a rail and stile bit a few years ago to build some doors for existing kitchen cabinets.....maybe use the same profile for these new doors?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

JIMMIEM said:


> I see you used sketchup. Did you learn from a book? I bought Sketchup for Dummies and have been reading and playing around. The book is ok but I'm wondering if you found a better learning source? Thank You.


Lots of you tube videos on Sketchup.

I started with this one. 





And this one..


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I would like the outside edge of the Stiles to be flush with the sides of the cabinet to give it a more finished look. If I flush both sides I'm afraid that the side that abuts the wall may not sit right if scribing is needed and there is nothing left to scribe. How do I end up with equal width Stiles, a flush fit against the wall, and flush face frame/cabinet side on the opposite side of the cabinet? Or am I overthinking/designing this? Is the amount needed for possible scribing minimal?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Depending on how much scribing is needed Jim. A small trim moulding can be used to hide the joint too if it's a small gap. If it's up against a log wall then you'd need to overhang it as deep as the deepest groove.


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