# Router Purchase - Mastercraft 10A Plunge Router with Table



## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Folks,

I am a new bee trying to get a router for making photo frames. I am also planning to cut acrylic in future. This router with table is available on sale at Canadian Tire. I want to grab it when it is on sale. 

"Mastercraft 10A Plunge Router with Table"

It has good rating on CT website. However, I would appreciate your professional advice. Please note that my requirement is very simple - cutting and beveling.

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Shiv

Don't get mad,,, MasterCraft is a 2 star router ,That's to say 2 stars out of 5 stars..

You can find them all over the place on eBay..at a Very low price 

Save your bucks up and get a good one,then you will be a happy router user.. 

===========
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mastercraft-Rou...trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1205|293:1|294:50


http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?t=18391

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skashyap said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I am a new bee trying to get a router for making photo frames. I am also planning to cut acrylic in future. This router with table is available on sale at Canadian Tire. I want to grab it when it is on sale.
> 
> ...


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your response. I was so charged up to get this "great deal".

Could you please suggest a decent router for my requirement. I am in Toronto. 

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Shiv

Many,many to select from the key is take a small trip and get over the border of Canada and into the states , that will save 100.oo right of the bat..  the norm..hop on the boat and take a day trip over the pond.. but I'm sure you know about that than I do. 


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skashyap said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for your response. I was so charged up to get this "great deal".
> 
> ...


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Bob,

I agree. It is easier to drive down to Buffalo or Detroit and buy what I want. The choices in Toronto are very limited.

I could do it next weekend or I could ask one of my buddies to bring it for me.

Could I get couple of suggested models (with table I suppose). I could also look for them at Home Depot or Lowes' as they carry most American stuff.

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Shiv

I would suggest the Craftsman combo kit for about 100.oo bucks,you will have all you need in one kit...then for a router table, one of the Rockler tops and you can make the cabinet for it easy once you have the router to do it with, but you can clamp it on some saw horses or WorkMate ..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...Power+Tools&sName=Routers+&+Laminate+Trimmers

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...Power+Tools&sName=Routers+&+Laminate+Trimmers

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00928160000P?keyword=router+table


JUst a NOTE*** " at Home Depot or Lowes' " that's a NO NO..You need to think one that out,,what do they sell the norm,most are what the Fac. wants to drop or get off the books...or dump..at a very low price to move out of stock

I can show you the water but I can't make you drink 


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skashyap said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> I agree. It is easier to drive down to Buffalo or Detroit and buy what I want. The choices in Toronto are very limited.
> 
> ...


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Shiv, welcome to the forum.
My suggestion would be to slow down just a bit and do some investigating on the different choices available. Internet is a tremendous resource, Amazon alone will give you several choices along with user reviews. Personal choice, I like shopping the reconditioned market. Usually a recon will go between 50 and 75% of a new one with a somewhat reduced warrantee but once you hit the power on switch you can't tell it from new.
Same goes for a router table. eBay is a good choice to investigate those. If you have any questions about them, just email the seller or visit the mfg website.
Happy shopping


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John 

The drag he is in Canada ,,Amazon will not ship tools to Canada. like many of the tool supplies ...some of the eBay sellers will but the cost is out of site for shipping ..

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jschaben said:


> Hi Shiv, welcome to the forum.
> My suggestion would be to slow down just a bit and do some investigating on the different choices available. Internet is a tremendous resource, Amazon alone will give you several choices along with user reviews. Personal choice, I like shopping the reconditioned market. Usually a recon will go between 50 and 75% of a new one with a somewhat reduced warrantee but once you hit the power on switch you can't tell it from new.
> Same goes for a router table. eBay is a good choice to investigate those. If you have any questions about them, just email the seller or visit the mfg website.
> Happy shopping


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi John
> 
> The drag he is in Canada ,,Amazon will not ship tools to Canada. like many of the tool supplies ...some of the eBay sellers will but the cost is out of site for shipping ..
> 
> =========


Understood that Bob, I was suggesting using Amazon as a research resource. Guess I wasn't to clear on that


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Hi Shiv,

Have you tried your local craigslist.org? Here in Anchorage there's 3 or 4 that hit the list each week, often with tables. That would let you see before you buy. Just a thought..

Jim


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Bob/John,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions. I really appreciate. 

As suggested I will do basic research over the weekend for the tools - on this forum as well as googling. 

I am a photographer. I have started printing large format prints and also have started making tiled murals (fake tiles using foam board). Some of my clients have started asking for framed murals. Again in Toronto framing supplies and suppliers are very limited. I am interested in making my own frames using builders mouldings.

This is the general idea have about the tools I need:

1. Miter saw for cutting the mouldings into 45 Deg framing pieces.
2. Router to make a rebate (recess to hold the mounted photo)
3. Proper clamping device for joining the cut mouldings to make frame.
4. A V-nailer to nail the corners

Please let me know if I am totally off track anywhere.

Thanks

Shiv


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Jim,

That is what I am doing right now . Craiglist as well as Kijiji.ca. Hopefully I will find the routers suggested by Bob. I might even find them on Sears.ca.

Thanks


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Shiv.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

hehehe, I got into this whole router table thing because of picture frames. LOL had a bunch of prints and photos she wanted framed and wasn't happy with the Wally World selections. And I wasn't satisfied with the prices otherwise.
Oh, well, back to your question. Looks like you have the basics to get started. I wasn't happy with the V-nails though. Mitres still seemed to lack the strength I would have liked so I am experimenting with biscuits and splines to reinforce those. Haven't done one yet but I am thinking about trying a half lap mitre joint for maximum strength.
Good Luck


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Shiv, plan a road trip to Detroit. We will let you try out a few routers so you have a better understanding of what you are looking for. Browse rockler.com and woodcraft.com for framing supplies. Both have local stores that are well stocked. Don't forget you need a passport or enhanced license to cross the border now. Member BrianS lives in Windsor and is the ideal person to contact for details on traffic closures and such. Once you have made 10 postings you are able to upload links and send PM's. If you need a couple more just browse the show and tell area and comment on a couple postings. We will assist you in getting started, then the sky is the limit.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi John
> 
> The drag he is in Canada ,,Amazon will not ship tools to Canada. like many of the tool supplies ...some of the eBay sellers will but the cost is out of site for shipping ..
> 
> =========


Yes, I discovered that when I got something shipped to a Canadian friend from the US. I was very surprised, as I thought that as both are in NAFTA, it was all effectively one area for trade and would just depend on distance.

Cheers

Peter


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Hi Shiv, welcome to our little corner of the 'net. 

I would pass on this router/table combo. Not because it's "crap", I've used M/craft tools all my life and have no complaints about them, just because, as people have suggested, there are so many better tools available. Used tools are a good option as most people never wear them out. As suggested, Craigslist, Kijijji, and also pawn shops. I personally haven't found good deals in pawnshops, the tools appear to be VERY used, but some people have... just have to be there at the right time. Yard sales, and auctions are other good sources for used tools.

Shuffle off to Buffalo, or come west to Detroit and vist a Sears tool store. At Sears.ca, that combo Bob mentioned is almost $200Cdn IIRC. Or, visit your local big box home center and check out the routers there. Build your own table, it's not difficult.

And, as Mike suggested, if you're coming this way, let us know and we can try to show you around.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

skashyap said:


> 2. Router to make a rebate (recess to hold the mounted photo)


Morning Shiv.
Forgot to mention this part. When you are looking at router/table combinations you may want to pay special attention to how easy depth of cut adjustments are made, both from above and below the table. This particular operation you described will likely require several depth changes.
My table router offers above and below table adjustments but when doing rabbets the fence blocks the above table adjustment access, forcing me below the table to avoid having to reset the fence. A router lift would eliminate this but they are typically expensive, unless you build your own, and if you plan ahead well enough it may not become an issue.
Cheers,


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Mike/Brian,

Good morning.

I think your suggestion to visit Detroit sounds very practical. If I make that 4 hrs drive I would be able to say hello to you guys as well as buy the required tools. I will give myself a week to see whether I could get the right one here.

Hi John,

Good morning to you too. I think you and I have common interest - picture frames. I will read all your posts. May be once I get my clearance for PMing I will send some messages.

Thanks a lot guys again. I am so happy that I found this forum.

Shiv


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Shiv one more suggestion since you are in TO area, check out tooldoctor.ca. I got an excellent refurbished Hitachi router from them for a great price. That router may be more then you need, but I still think it ia a good source for you to check. BTW I owned that mastercraft router/table combo for a while. It was my first router. It didn't take long to realize that both were a mistake. You might also want to check out the router table kit from Oak Park. They are in Canada too.
The other best tool you can have is this forum. These guys know their stuff! Welcom and happy routing!


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Thanks Deb.

I will drop by at their Milner Ave location next week. It is very close to my place.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Folks,

As suggested by Deb, I had discussion with Bob of toolsdoctor.ca. He understood my requirement well. He has suggested Hitachi M12-VC ( $129) or M12 V ($179). These are refurbished and toolsdoctor.ca gives full support purchased by them.

Only problem is he doesn't sell table. If I were to buy either one of them. Could you please suggest which router table is recommended.

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Shiv

Just one more you may want to check out 
Hitachi M12V Â½â€� 3-1/4 Peak HP Router, Plunge, Electronic Variable Speed (Reconditioned)

http://www.reconditionedsales.com/H...Fixed_Base_Router_(Reconditioned)___i310.aspx

==========


skashyap said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> As suggested by Deb, I had discussion with Bob of toolsdoctor.ca. He understood my requirement well. He has suggested Hitachi M12-VC ( $129) or M12 V ($179). These are refurbished and toolsdoctor.ca gives full support purchased by them.
> 
> ...


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Good stuff Shiv! The M12V is the same one I got from The Tool Doctor. I am really happy with it. The VC model is a bit smaller and might be better for making frames but I see Bob suggests the M12V so maybe that's your best bet. You never know what you might want to do with it later on


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Bob/Deb,

I will be buying M12V tomorrow. Could you please suggest me a router table. I am assuming that to get proper hold I need to have a table. He has also suggested me to go for Miter Saw C10-FCE2 (around $200). Will there be a table that I can use for both router as well as Miter saw.

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Shiv

I would suggest someone in CD,like the one below that's a big deal when you are in CD ..

He is a member that may help with the price..
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/3842-canadian-router-table.html

Best Router Tables

OR

http://www.rockler.com/CategoryView.cfm?Cat_ID=90&filter=router table

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skashyap said:


> Bob/Deb,
> 
> I will be buying M12V tomorrow. Could you please suggest me a router table. I am assuming that to get proper hold I need to have a table. He has also suggested me to go for Miter Saw C10-FCE2 (around $200). Will there be a table that I can use for both router as well as Miter saw.
> 
> ...


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

skashyap said:


> Bob/Deb,
> 
> I will be buying M12V tomorrow. Could you please suggest me a router table. I am assuming that to get proper hold I need to have a table. He has also suggested me to go for Miter Saw C10-FCE2 (around $200). Will there be a table that I can use for both router as well as Miter saw.
> 
> ...


Hi Shiv
Bob gave you a good place to look at reconditioned. I have a hitachi mitre saw, router, belt sander and pneumatic nailer from them and all were top notch. The link is for the saw they have for, I think (gettin a lot of senior moments lately) about $90US. Dunno what that does to you in Canada. Last time I looked there they had the M12VC 2-1/4 hp kit, plunge and fixed base for $102 US. Thats the same kit I have for hand held and I love it, just paid more for it. :'( 
With all due respect to Bob, I think you are going to be far beyond picture frames to need the 3- 1/4 hp M12. 

Saws - Reconditioned Sales, Inc.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the links.

I am assuming CD is Canada. I will talk to Joe tomorrow.



Hi John,

Unfortunately, since I am in Canada, currency exchange, cost of shipping and customs will bring the price up very much for all imports from US. 

Bob of toolsdoctor.ca has service/support guarantee for all the items they sell.

Thanks

Shiv


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Shiv I am a fan of the Oak Park router table. I have never made picture frames with a router so I don't know how that would work for you but I know Bob and Rick made a picture frame on that table on their show. You can buy very fancy router tables but the KISS (Keep it Simple) method of the Oak Park table seems to work just fine. 
Any stand should work for a miter saw but if you are cutting very long stock you may want to invest in a proper miter saw stand like some of these suggestions. I am sure you can find them at any hardware/home depot store in Canada. Maybe even kijiji.ca or ebay or craiglist. 
I tend to agree with John that the M12V might be overkill for picture frames. The M12VC might be a better fit. Like I said it depends if you have bigger plans down the road.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Deb,

I have one more constraint. I need to use this in my apartment. If M12 V is really higher capacity, I might blow the fuse. On hitachi it says just the amperage. I hope these two routers do not need 220 V. 

I don't have any big plans other than making picture frames and some plaques. I think as suggested I will go with M12VC.

Are you using Oak park table?

Thanks

Shiv


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Shiv,
I was using my Hitachi C10FC 10" miter saw, today, as I have for the last 8 years. Hitachi got it right with this tool. I was cutting 4 x 4 deck posts, using a Freud 80 tooth crosscut blade. The cuts were like glass and the saw never lost an RPM. One cut involved cutting the chamfered post tops to length. Trying to cut 1/16" off an aged chamfered board is a difficult cut. The Hitachi/Freud made it easy. 

I use the saw for work and it has been a trooper. After being unloaded, loaded, dropped, flung, and otherwise abused, it still is all in one piece and cuts accurately. If I could only buy one miter saw, this would be the one. FWIW, when I use it on site, I place it on a piece of sheet goods, straddling a pair of saw horses. I don't need no stinkin' saw frame :sarcastic:. If you're looking for a more stable platform, these Portamates might fit the bill.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

The M12V is only 110V but it's 3 1/4HP as opposed to the M12VC which is 2 1/4 HP. For frame making I doubt you need more then 2 HP. Routers aren't the quietest tool and that might be an issue in an apartment. They also make a TON of dust and shavings. You will need some sort of dust collection - even a small shop vac will do. But that will add to the noise factor. 
I am using the Oak Park table and I love it. But now that I know you are in an apartment I might suggest something smaller like a Wolfcraft Table or something like it.
You might want to go with a smaller Miter saw as well. Maybe a 8". I have a little Jobmate 8" and while I am not a fan of Jobmate tools this one does a fine job and is really accurate with the proper set up. I am sure it would be more then adequate for your needs, or something similar. Any work surface will do to set it on. I just have mine clamped to a tool stand with De Stacco toggle clamps. Again miter saws are noisy and dusty so be prepared. 
Hopefully one of the fellas here who might be more experienced in frame making will pop in and make some suggestions. So far I think we may have gone a bit overboard with the suggestions considering your situations. Give it a day or so and see what else folks come up with before you run out and buy something. It's worth the wait to make sure you get the right stuff.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Bob,

Would I be able to use "Lock Miter Bits" for joining the corners of picture frame? I was just looking at your suggestions on this thread http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/4263-lock-miter-bits.html.

If this works I will postpone the idea of getting a Mitre Saw.

Thanks

Shiv


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Shiv, those bits would be a poor choice for picture frame corners. You might consider getting a couple Japanese pull saws and using a simple wooden miter box to get started. This eliminates the noise problem and greatly reduces the dust problem. You will not be cutting framing lumber, just thin kerf accurate cuts and these are where the pull saws excell. It is also a lot kinder to your wallet. These saws with a couple of sharp hand chisels will give you the super clean miter cuts which you can bill as being "hand fitted". Think about it.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Mike,

Are you referring to the miter box and saw they sell at Home Depot or Lowe's? - With 45 deg angle slots on them for saw to pass through? I read somewhere that the slots over time would lose their shape and the angle will start varying - is that true?

If this works it will be very practical. I might be making 10 frames a month.

Thanks

Shiv


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Shiv,
Mike has a good point. I have been focusing on power saws because I am not dedicated to picture frames. For professional, high end frames that I sense you want to produce, maybe some more specialized equipment would be in order, possibly cheaper too. Especially when you consider a really top quality crosscut blade, around $150 US for a top Forrest blade. A hand operated system may be better for you with smooth cuts and almost zero tear out.
Try this link and see what you think:

Logan Pro Saw Model F100-2


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Folks,

Thanks for all your support and advise. It was very good education for me. I got to get the activity going. So, I am taking this approach:

1. Buy M12VC with no table. I would like to get the hang of the machine first. I am assuming that I could use it hand held with job constrained properly with guides.

2. I will use a good saw (may be a Japanese saw - which cuts on return stroke) with either a miter box or marking it accurately.

3. There are other series of activities that I have to master like joining, painting etc. It is all going to be one great series of experiments for me. Some of you who are experts might have already started smiling at a rookie's issues.

I will keep you posted with my progress. I hope you will be patient with my learning. 

It is ironic that I am a mechanical engineer who can run thermal/nuclear power plants but not able to operate a router. Unfortunately my career path took me quite away from hands on mechanical work towards software development and IT management. Photography is kind of stress buster for me. I have to retrace all the activities we did in workshops of my undergrad school.

"All paths lead nowhere. But I take the path that has heart." 
Journey to Ixtlan, Carlos Castanaeda.

Thanks again

Shiv


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Shiv, you can easily build your own miter box from 3 pieces of wood. Attach them to form a channel and then use a speed square to align and make your slots with a cross cut pull saw. Will this wear out? Of course, but it is a simple matter to make new cuts as needed in this same set up. Just be sure to mark the bad slots so you wont reuse them by accident. There is an additional advantage to cutting your frames this way: you do not need to worry about compound angles, the wood can be held at the proper angle in the channel. Production framers will often have a guillotine machine that slices or shaves the perfect cut. These start around $150.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

skashyap said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for your response. I was so charged up to get this "great deal".
> 
> ...


 Hi Shiv:

Like you I live in Toronto.

My father purchased a MasterCraft router a few years ago. He also purchased a Woodcraft router table from CT. Neither has seen action for quite some time.

I got so fed up with the pair, that I went out and purchased a Bosch 1617EVSPK kit from Lowes. At the time, it was CDN $299.97. The price has gone up. I think it is still available from Rona for about CDN $350.

The 1617EVS gets used. Also, I am gearing up to build my first router table, not being happy with what's available locally. 

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi John
> 
> The drag he is in Canada ,,Amazon will not ship tools to Canada. like many of the tool supplies ...some of the eBay sellers will but the cost is out of site for shipping ..
> 
> =========


 Yep, ain't it da truth!?!

:cray:


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Shipping is one of my pet peeves too.. Price aside, why will some not ship to Alaska? They use the same companies, the same people pick up the cargo, it's just one more "zone" in their calculation charts! I can understand saying "No free shipping" as it may cost more but no shipping at all? Sheesh!

That's like when you see an advertising indicating "domestic shipping only" and they won't ship to Alaska.. or only to the "continental U.S.". As I tell them: "I'm on the North American continent and in one of the United States; where are you?" For some reason they get really quiet. 

<Getting off the soapbox>


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Folks,

I took the first step today. Went and bought M12VC. I also saw various miter boxes and saws. I saw some pull saws at Lowes's - they call them Bear Saw. I am not sure whether it is the same as Japanese saw Mike was referring to.

Now I need some pointers for buying my router bits. What are the criteria I need to consider besides the profile.

Thanks

Shiv


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Shiv

Don't buy the high end bits right off the bat,here we go with the CD thing again,,,the seller below is in CD,, I have got some of his bits and they are ok.

Little high for me because I'm in the states but it should be ok for you..
Buy just a gen'l.set to start off with the others will come in time..

The set below, comes out to 1.88 each bit...that's hard to beat..

http://cgi.ebay.com/66-PC-ELITE-IND...id=p4634.c0.m14.l1262&_trkparms=|293:2|294:30

eBay Store â€“ Elite Tools: Search results for.

=====


skashyap said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I took the first step today. Went and bought M12VC. I also saw various miter boxes and saws. I saw some pull saws at Lowes's - they call them Bear Saw. I am not sure whether it is the same as Japanese saw Mike was referring to.
> 
> ...


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Shiv
Elite tools is in Canada. It might be cheaper to buy direct from them instead of their ebay site.


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Today I spoke to Joe of RT-1000 and Sandy of Oak Park router table. Both of them were very helpful. As Deb was mentioning these tables seemed to be a overkill for my skill level. 

On the way back from work, I dropped in at Home Depot. Surprisingly I was able to find Ryobi RT401W for, guess what, CAD 24.99. I picked up, assembled my router and revved it up once. The table seems sturdier than the one I saw at Sears yesterday - CRAFTSMAN®/MD Router Table : Sears Canada for CAD 129 at store and CAD 99 online.

Tomorrow I will be buying my first router bit by talking to folks at Elite tools as suggested by Bob and Deb.


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## RT1000 (Jan 9, 2007)

Hi Shiv Thanks For the phone call
I'm going to give you my .02. All these router are fine I have them myself 
two M12V, dewalt 625 , Bosch and porter cable. 2 years ago t purchase a Triton 2.25 It comes with soft start, va







r speed, 1/4 and 1/2 collet. Can be purchase in Canada for 199. Cheaper then in the USA. The above the table height adjustment is also a great idea. It eliminates a router lift.
As for the HP I ran 1600 ft of crown and base molding and never felt that the unit lacking power. Having a good routing station makes your product safer and easier. I have been recommending this router to lots of woodworker with my router table and they seen to be very appreciative .Thanks Joe


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## skashyap (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the recommendation. I was able to review your table features. They are very functional. Once I pick up some basic skills, I will upgrade to that table and a higher capacity router based on various suggestions I have received on this forum. As I mentioned in one of earlier posts, I have to get my hands on skills back.

BTW I checked the size of collet - standard is 1/2" and an additional 1/4" comes as accessory. There was some problem with 1/2" collet; folks at tooldoctor.ca fixed it for me. Hopefully I will be working on my project over this weekend once I get my Straight cutting bit.

Thanks

Shiv


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