# 1/4 or 1/2 inch bits?



## jco (Nov 27, 2009)

Hi,
I am new to forum so here are my first questions.
I just bought the sears combo 17543 both fixed and plunge routers and they have both 1/4 & 1/2 collets.

1) Which collet size bits should I buy?
2) Also, should the bit tips be solid carbide or is coated ok?
3) Since I am currently unemployed, where can I get the best bits for lowest price?
4) Are bits ready to go or do they need to be sharpened first?

At this point bits will only be used for wood at first.
Looking to get a starter set to play and learn with.
The bits I use will never be used for full time production, so heavy duty not needed.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

You'll want carbide tipped for durability, and since you have the option I would buy your bits with a cutting diameter under 1/2" in 1/4" shank, and 1/2" and above in 1/2" shank. 
The larger the cutting diameter the more it will vibrate and move when cutting so you'll want a nice thick shank to counter that.

Check out Harbor Freight. The carry a brand called " Life Time Carbide " that make a great inexpensive carbide bit set.


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

I always buy the 1/2" bits first. They are a stronger bit with less vibration. If a profile is not available in 1/2" then I will get the 1/4". Bits with the color coats are ok. I like to buy the good quality bits because the quality of the carbide used keeps an edge longer. Just starting out I would look for deals. 

You can find some inexpensive bits at places like Harbor Freight. If you sign up with your e-mail at Rockler they will send discounts weekly. I'm sure others will add their favorite places to buy bits.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just my 2 cents 

You need both,1/4" and 1/2" shank bits ,,,,many times you can't use the 1/2" ones with many dovetail machines plus other items that need to use the brass guides..

=====


----------



## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Good points bob......


----------



## icehugger (Oct 23, 2009)

Buy 1/2 inch bits unless there is a very good reason not to.
Bits are available as HSS (high speed steel), carbide tipped, or solid carbide. HSS are a waste of money, solid carbide is only seen in certain specialist bits. But the carbide tipped.
The bits are ready to cut out of the box, they don't need to be sharpened.
You need to be careful about buying cheap bits. I've seen some fantastice deals on starter sets but you may find the results are disappointing, it could shake your confidence in the whole routing concept.
I think you would be better off with only a few good quality bits rather than a heap of cheap crap.


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Carbide 1/2" shank bits wherever possible. I buy a lot of new Trend bits from sellers on Ebay for not a lot.


----------



## smc (Dec 19, 2008)

I am going to recommend AGAINST bits from Harbor Freight. My first router was bought there, and it was great until the brake mechanism failed. The bits - that was definitely a learning experience. I wasted more time thinking my lack of experience was to blame. I got some bits from WOODCRAFT when they had one of their $5 sales and I was a routing fool!

Don't buy bits from Home Depot either. They have some brand I've never heard of now for the price of high quality bits. I was in a pinch once and bought the previous brand - worse than HF bits.

HSS are great for one thing - FIRE!


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi JC - Surprised no one has mentioned this eBay vendor yet. Have had good luck with him:
eBay Store - Super Carbide Tools: Single bit, 2 pc Set, Set

Also James suggested signing up with Rockler for their e-specials. Rockler isn't the only one; MLCS, EagleAmerica, Woodcraft, Peachtree to name a few all will send out email specials usually with at least one pretty good deal on bits, jigs or other accessories. 
Good Luck and stay in touch.


----------



## newwoodworker (Mar 27, 2009)

I bought the 10 or 12 piece set from HF to begin with and didnt actually find them to be to bad as I was new and had no comparison but once I needed to buy a specific bit I needed I purchased a single bit bosch I believe is the brand and I must admit I dont know if its all mental or real but it does seem to cut better but for general odd little bit of routing the HF set has served me well even tho out of the "combo" set I dont think I have used but 3 out of the set the rest my projects just haven't called for yet!


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I started with an E-bay 66 pc. set. Any replacements are Freud, 1/2" shank when possible.


----------



## jco (Nov 27, 2009)

Thank you to everyone who has responded.
I will be buying 1/2" shank bits to start.
Also will be checking ebay sellers suggested.


----------



## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

I was following the same rule, buying 1/2" bits, had close to 100. Then I bought a Bosch Colt, only had 1 or 2 bits with 1/4" shank. But that was a great excuse for buying more bits.


----------



## laxknut (Oct 17, 2008)

*bits*

As always, you get what you pay for.
Personally, I dont want a cheap tool rotating at 22,000 rpm under my chin.
In my opinion, the 1/4" shank/ collet has no place on a router over 700/800 watts, and should be restricted to very small dia tools. too much rotating mass on a little shaft= vibration= eventual problems. 
Just my opinion.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bill 

Just asking, what size router do you use with the dovetail bits , when all of the dovetail jigs use the 1/2" guides the norm ..and need to use 1/4" shank bits and turn at 20,000 RPM's the norm..not to say anything about the other jigs that need to use 1/4" shank bits..i.e the MilesCraft templates..


========



laxknut said:


> As always, you get what you pay for.
> Personally, I dont want a cheap tool rotating at 22,000 rpm under my chin.
> In my opinion, the 1/4" shank/ collet has no place on a router over 700/800 watts, and should be restricted to very small dia tools. too much rotating mass on a little shaft= vibration= eventual problems.
> Just my opinion.


----------



## laxknut (Oct 17, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Bill
> 
> Just asking, what size router do you use with the dovetail bits , when all of the dovetail jigs use the 1/2" guides the norm ..and need to use 1/4" shank bits and turn at 20,000 RPM's the norm..not to say anything about the other jigs that need to use 1/4" shank bits..i.e the MilesCraft templates..
> 
> ...


Good question Bob,
I currently live in Sweden, and here we choose between 8mm and 12mm shanks. I use a Leigh D4R, and mostly use a Makita RP1110C for small to medium dovetails and fingerjoints. When routing large(over 1") dts -12mm shank I use a Festool OF 1400.
I was a woodworker in the US for 20+ years before I moved to metricland, and had a lot of 1/4" bits, they are locked away in storage but I wasted no time in shipping my 1/2" bit collection.
I still use Imperial measurements in my Incra LS, (Whiteside sets) and change metric/imperial collets quite often to match the bit>router>task.
I realize that if your'e going after those tiny pins with the hand-cut look, a small bit seems to be the likely choice, but that has more to do with the profile of the dt bit than it does the shaft size.
At first I was frustrated to need to buy so many things over again in metric, but after using the 8mm bits, I would never want to use a 1/4" shank again.
Hope that answers your question.
Bill


----------



## aurgathor (Dec 3, 2007)

It depends a lot on what type of router do you have, and how you use it. I have a 2 HP plunge router and a small handheld trimmer router, and the latter only takes 1/4" bits. I happen to use the trimmer router at least twice as much as the big one, so consequently, most of my bits are 1/4".


----------



## phone_63 (Dec 31, 2009)

Hi Paul,
I can relate to you as I also am a new want to be woodworker. Having been downsized from one job then laid off from another I decided to retire at 59 and do what I always wanted to do,but, never had the time.I also will be out of my wife's hair (ha,ha,ha).I was lucky to find a woodworking school near me so I can learn how to use all the tools,but, like you am not able to afford all the new tools so I am looking for used tools to buy. I have a small garage so I'm basically looking for bench top type tools. I liked your web site and look forward to seeing your blogs.

Greg


----------



## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> You need both,1/4" and 1/2" shank bits ,,,,many times you can't use the 1/2" ones with many dovetail machines plus other items that need to use the brass guides..


True, that's why you see the better dovetail machines use the 8mm shanks in place of the much less sturdy 1/4".


----------



## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

jschaben said:


> Hi JC - Surprised no one has mentioned this eBay vendor yet. Have had good luck with him:
> eBay Store - Super Carbide Tools: Single bit, 2 pc Set, Set


Thanks, Ebay seller bookmarked.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Say what ???, hahahahaha LOL 

======



jmg1017 said:


> True, that's why you see the better dovetail machines use the 8mm shanks in place of the much less sturdy 1/4".


----------



## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

What's so funny? Have you checked out Leigh or Akeda? They use 8mm shanks on bits for their jigs.

So what's the funny part?
Leigh and Akeda aren't quality jigs?
That they don't use 8mm shanks?
8mm shanks aren't sturdier than 1/4" shanks?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Most of the routers sold in the states can't take on the 8mm shanks without a adapter  why would anyone buy a tool they can use without buying spec. tooling..most of the router bit outlets don't carrier 8mm shank bits (in the states) or to say a very small selection of them.. 
1/4" to 8mm is not a very big deal 

i.e. see below
16 pc 8mm Shank Dovetail Router Bit Set For Leigh Jig - eBay (item 140371765195 end time Jan-10-10 15:35:21 PST)

========



jmg1017 said:


> What's so funny? Have you checked out Leigh or Akeda? They use 8mm shanks on bits for their jigs.
> 
> So what's the funny part?
> Leigh and Akeda aren't quality jigs?
> ...


----------



## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Actually the two jig manufacturers I mentioned and others, supply 8mm collets with their jigs. No extra cost. In addition an 8mm collet is available from Porter Cable, part# PCPG-0429-8MM $19.99. Most other major manufacturers offer this also. NOT special tooling. That's why anyone would want to invest in one. Also it's not accurate to call it an "adaptor", it's just another collet. Most routers already come with both a 1/2" and 1/4" collet, so no difference.

Still don't get the funny part though. Anyway, to the original poster my advice would be to use 1/2" shank bits whenever possible.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

OK ,how do they know what type of router you are using.?
Out of all the routers I have not one of them will not take on the 8mm bits without a adapter..
Now if I was in the UK or AU I'm sure most can take them on..
The PC is the only one I know about that you can get a collet for it..in the states..most of the users in the UK or AU don't use the PC routers.

" special tooling " to me it's means it's not in the box from the Fac.

The two you posted are very over price jigs.. I would say..
after all it's just dovetails you are putting in place the norm.

=========




jmg1017 said:


> Actually the two jig manufacturers I mentioned and others, supply 8mm collets with their jigs. No extra cost. In addition an 8mm collet is available from Porter Cable, part# PCPG-0429-8MM $19.99. Most other major manufacturers offer this also. NOT special tooling. That's why anyone would want to invest in one. Also it's not accurate to call it an "adaptor", it's just another collet. Most routers already come with both a 1/2" and 1/4" collet, so no difference.
> 
> Still don't get the funny part though. Anyway, to the original poster my advice would be to use 1/2" shank bits whenever possible.


----------



## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

I stand corrected Bob, you are right. Although you can purchase 8mm collets from manufacturers like Milwaukee, PC, and Festool, etc, the jig manufacturers I listed supply adaptors (8mm) to fit into your existing 1/2" collet.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Joe


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Not to sound disrespectful but, for the price of the Leigh, Akeda, a person could purchase 2 of these and still accomplish the same job with equal if not better precision.

New Katie Jig w/Bars-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood


----------



## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> Not to sound disrespectful but, for the price of the Leigh, Akeda, a person could purchase 2 of these and still accomplish the same job with equal if not better precision.
> 
> New Katie Jig w/Bars-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood


Actually, not really.
At $219.00 (on sale) it's only $20 less than the Leigh 12" SuperJig (same size as the Katie in the link)

As for precision and accuracy, well that's a matter of opinion. The Katie does look like a well made jig.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Not the same as the Katie jig, the Katie can be used in both ways, router table or with the hand router 
And with add on template it can also do blind dovetails as well right on the router table as wide as you want it to be all with one jig..no need to buy a bigger jig.

Like you said " matter of opinion " 

========


----------



## laxknut (Oct 17, 2008)

As I've stated I have used Both 1/4" and 8mm extensively and the only application I would consider a 1/4" for is a small trimmer/edgework.
8mm shanks are standard in most parts of the world the -exception- would be the U.S. and possibly Latin America. I don't want to open the metric/imperial can o' worms here, The fact is bits with an 8mm shaft are far less prone to vibration under load than the same rotating mass on the end of a 1/4" shaft. 
And the shaft length possible= cutting depth, is a separate issue, again making 1/4" inadequate for some applications. One exception to this would be smaller dovetail and pin router bits where the smallest diameter of the cutter head is under 1/4"
All quality TC bits available in the U.S. can be ordered in metric variants, as opposed to warehouse type bulk sellers who offer mostly cheaper sets, made in countries with little or no environmental controls, poor labor standards and lower grade materials. The latter are available in primarily imperial #s. in the U.S.
I can understand the unwillingness to buy 8mm bits where there is a lack of tools to support them (the U.S.) I don't like collet adapters myself. For mid and large size routers, most manufacturers offer 8mm collets. In the U.S. For smaller routers (under 1,1/4 hp) the 8mm option will be more difficult.
Just my opinion.
Bill


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm with you on 8mm Bill. It is around 30% thicker than 1/4" and will be significantly stiffer. Unfortunately, it's largely academic here in Croatia, as if you can find anyone selling a dozen profiles you are doing well. Most of my bits had to be imported. In consequence most of mine are 1/2" with significant numbers of 1/4" and a handful of 8mm. I've collets for all of them and even 6mm, a shade under 1/4", but I've no 6mm bits.

Cheers

Peter


----------

