# Patio Arbor



## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

My mother has been wanting an arbor for a long time. I have been putting her off while trying to complete my workshop. But since Mother's Day is fast approaching, I decided to put off my workshop and build the arbor for her.
Here are a few pics of the build-up. Had to leave town for work again, so I will prime and paint everything white to match lattice and install it as soon as possible.
I bought 2 1/2" deck screws so they wouldn't rust, (the ones with the pan heads that are used for composite decks) and assembled everything with my Kreg pocket jig. I think it made for a much nicer finish instead of toe-nailing everything. I ripped 1x4's in half to make frame to hold lattice.


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## medkellogg (Mar 12, 2012)

Nice looking project, George. The pocket jig is a great tool, especially for outdoor stuff. Keep the pictures coming...like to see the rest of the project and the finished installation. Not to mention the smile on your Mom's face!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Great work, George.

Would love to see a photo of the finished result....


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## Desertcarver (Aug 27, 2011)

Your Mom is going to be very happy. As a side note, every box of composit decking screws I have ever seen states not to use on real wood.


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

That is a great looking project you have going there George!

Thanks for uploading the pics.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey George; Lucky Mom! 
A couple of side notes...the screws need to be specifically approved for use with ACQ lumber, or use SS screws. _Anything else will corrode quickly. _The other suggestion is to squirt urethane caulking into the screw holes before running the screws in. That'll hopefully prevent water from following the screw shank deep into the wood. The preservative is basically very shallow penetration; anything that bypasses the protection is an invitation to rot.


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## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

*Arbor*

Hi All, thanks for the feedback. I was not that familiar with the different kinds of finishes on the screws, (some better than others for ACQ lumber). I will definately remember that for the next project. I went with these screws because they had a pan head instead of a countersunk head which I figured would hold better in the pocket hole. After it was all completed, I dabbed in alot of paint in the holes to keep the weather out. And I made a point to not have any pockets facing up so as to hold rainwater. I'll keep an eye on it and if the screws corrode, I will go back and change them out one at a time with better screws. 
I dug each hole 20" deep and put 2" of concrete in the bottom before setting in posts. That way termites can't eat their way up from the bottom.
My mom is thrilled with the way it turned out. Here are the rest of the pictures.


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

Capt Splinter said:


> Hi All, thanks for the feedback. I was not that familiar with the different kinds of finishes on the screws, (some better than others for ACQ lumber). I will definately remember that for the next project. I went with these screws because they had a pan head instead of a countersunk head which I figured would hold better in the pocket hole. After it was all completed, I dabbed in alot of paint in the holes to keep the weather out. And I made a point to not have any pockets facing up so as to hold rainwater. I'll keep an eye on it and if the screws corrode, I will go back and change them out one at a time with better screws.
> I dug each hole 20" deep and put 2" of concrete in the bottom before setting in posts. That way termites can't eat their way up from the bottom.
> My mom is thrilled with the way it turned out. Here are the rest of the pictures.


I think you are right in not using countersinking screws inside pockets. I have had them countersink all the way through.

From the sounds of things you put it up on a very 'sound foundation'.

Thanks for the followup!


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## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks Bill. Dan, after a little more research, I realize what you are saying now. The chemical treatment of the lumber is what corrodes the screws. I have a project for my daughter that she is really bugging me to do, but I will put it on my list to go back and change out the screws one at a time. Since it's all pocket screws, shouldn't be a big deal. I would use the Kreg pocket screws but didn't see a 2 1/2" outdoor variety. I'm guessing they make one since they have a deck jig. I'll have to look on-line.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

George; I just put down some ACQ treated 2x4 plates over 1/2" sill bolts. They were rusting after 24 hours! They weren't hot dipped galvanized as apparently the powers-that-be figure with 1/2" or larger it's not necessary.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

That turned out nice George. Stainless Steel screws cost a lot more but are worth it in the long run for outdoor projects like this. Even on this pine porch swing I used SS fasteners. Plans for this swing are in the Wood Magazine book of outdoor projects.


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## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

Mike,
That's a great looking swing. I'm gonna have to make it a priority to change out the screws on mom's arbor.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

George; would you mind posting a pic of the old screws when you pull them out? I think a lot of members might be interested in how serious this exterior fasteners in treated lumber issue is(?).
Cheers,
-Dan


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

When setting posts I take a small amount of concrete (dry mix straight from the bag) and put in bottom of hole Place post in hole fill half way with concrete Plumb post finish filling and compact it firm to hold post plumb Add water its way easier than mixing it and the concrete will be plenty strong


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

Like Mike, I am a huge fan of SS fasteners for some exterior projects. The corrosive effects of the elements on fasteners can ruin a finished appearance in a lot less time than it takes for the screws/nails to actually start breaking.

'Coated' hardware designed for decking applications holds up a lot better than the cheapest stuff, but I have found that a single 'slip out' with the Torx bit used to put them in have a way of stripping off some of the coating, right on the head of the screw where it will be exposed the most.



Mike said:


> That turned out nice George. Stainless Steel screws cost a lot more but are worth it in the long run for outdoor projects like this. Even on this pine porch swing I used SS fasteners. Plans for this swing are in the Wood Magazine book of outdoor projects.


Interesting twist Dan, add me to the list of those who are curious about how treated wood products and certain fasteners might not get along with each other on chemical reaction levels.




DaninVan said:


> George; would you mind posting a pic of the old screws when you pull them out? I think a lot of members might be interested in how serious this exterior fasteners in treated lumber issue is(?).
> Cheers,
> -Dan


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_"...I have found that a single 'slip out' with the Torx bit used to put them in..."
-Bill_

Torx?! O.M.G... You guys down South have _really_ slipped over to the Dark Side...
On the bright side, it sounds like you're finally abandoning Phillips head; on the inexplicable side, you _still_ won't acknowledge Robertson head as being the best!

Screw Head Types – A Guide to What Type of Screw is This? – Fasteners Help – Resources for Anchors, Security Screws, Hardware


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## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

Guys,
I put a reminder on my cell phone calendar for the end of the first week of June to start replacing the screws. That will give them one month of being installed. I will pull several of them and take a picture of them for corrosion. If its not too bad, I'll leave the rest another month and check again. Should be able to make this sort of an experiment to see how quickly this stuff corrodes. If it gets bad really quickly, I'll just go ahead and replace everything at once. Keep an eye out for future posts, and I'll keep you posted! :sarcastic:


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