# Fence to Bit distance setting



## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Good day

As you noticed, I made my router table fence with a T so it will be set parallel the the table edge and I said that it's very important for me...

On this post you will see why it's so important for me...

You can measure the distance with the same set-up using ruler but I prefer the caliper even though it requires some calculation.

The calculation is very simple...lets say that I want to meke a slot of 3/8" (with 3/8" bit) that will start 5/8" trom the fence. 
I just add the desired distance from the fence (5/8") and the bit diameter (3/8") =1". 
I set the fence so the caliper shows 1" and go...If I want to enlarge the slot to 3/4", I just add another 3/8" after the first pass...the caliper should show 1-3/8", and go again...

It's very easy to modify the caliper...takes some 5 min, some 3 pieces from the scrap box and a few drops of CA...(I have a step-by-step pics and will post separately).

Best regards
niki


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Interesting Niki. Am I right in thinking that it's only when you are making slots that the fence needs to be parallel to the bit? Otherwise parallelism isn't an issue(?).


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Geordie

No, the fence does not have to be parallel for any operation on the router table.

For the example, lets make a round router table...in this case there is no "Fence parallel to the table edge" (which edge) because the table is round.

You can put the fence ones in one position or turn the fence 30° from this position or turn the fence to 95° from the initial position.
As long as you set the fence 3/8" from the bit and push the wood along the fence, the cut or, slot will be 3/8 from the wood edge (or the fence).

Parallelism is not an issue on router table, it's only important for me, because of the method that I use to set the bit-fence distance.

Regards
niki


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

Oyvay you make such a thing of this. You must be a perfectionist. I made my fence and put the t-tracks in without all that hubbub. I used a large metal carpenter's square to align the slots for the track. My table is 1 1/2 inches thick and with a few passes with a 3/8's bit, I cut the slots.

Gary


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi niki

I guess I just don't get it 

Why make something so easy so hard  you can use the brass setup bars or just about anything that's 1" ,lets say you want a 3/8" wide slot 1" from the edge, you would just put the brass bars in place or a 1" setup block and make the pass quick and easy if you want a 3/4" slot you would put in a 3/4" bit and do it the same way...

The fence doesn't come in to play so to speak it just used as a setup point for the brass bars, the fence can be off center of the table by 30deg. it makes no difference.

But this is just my 2 cents......

"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator


Bj


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Gary
You must have Jewish friends....this Oyvay (I'm using it every day)...
I'm not perfectionist but very close to it...

Hi BJ
I was waiting to those brass bars to come in but, they dont come in increments of 0.1 mm (0.004") and sometimes its very important for me.

"Why to make something so easy so hard"?...well, I'm asking you the same question when you are using the Imperial measuring system...for me, it's hard, for you it's natural and everyone is using what is easy for him. I'm using this method already 10 years and I like it.

And you are correct about the fence position
As I replied to Geordie, the best example is Round router table.
You can even bolt the fence on one side of the table and move only the other side with the bolted side as a pivot.

Best regards
niki


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Help me out here -
For the sake of argument let's say I know the distance from the front edge of the table to the center of the bit is 6"
I want to make a 1/2" dado 2" from the edge of the piece.
I'm using a 1/2" bit.
SO -- 
Step 1
I take my trusty and somewhat rusty combination square 
and set it to *8 1/4"*
*6" to bit center + 1/4" for half the bit + 2" for space on the piece*
Step 2
I press my square tight against the front of the table -- 
Step 3
I press the right side fence against the end of the square and lock it down.
Step 4
I do the same on the left side fence - then doublecheck.

Compared to Nik's description and a lot of other discussion this seems so simplistic --- but it always seemed to work for me.
Am I missing something?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi niki

At one time I did many things the hard way until I came upon Bob & Rick and the RWS shows and they showed me the light  and now Bob R. is my hero so to speak..

He will and can show you many, many ways to use the router the easy and simple way no fuss no muss just let Bob and Rick show you how  

We are both stuck with the Imperial measuring or the Metic system that's no big deal.
It would be a big deal If all we had only one way...of measuring things... 
Two is always better than one...and I do use both from time to time.
I will use both to check setting on items all the time on my elec.mike always pushing that button....


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Here's how I look at where to put a track..

If I have a featherboard that has a 4" reach, I'll put the track in so that I can put the FB up to the bit, with a little room to spare.. Let's say 3.75".. You can also take into consideration if you are going to use a miter gauge..

It really doesn't matter where you put a track in, just as long as you're comfortable where it is.. On my present table, I don't have a track in it, as I found I didn't really use the one I had in the old table top.. The FBs I use now are made of 1x3" oak that I just clamp to the edge of the table..


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> . . .
> "It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions."


I tend to pretty much respect everyone's opinion -- sometimes to the point of doubting my own.
Usually the way I do something isn't purposely easy - or hard -
It's just the only way I know - either because it's what I was taught or something I figured out on my own - making it up as I go.
SO - when I see other people spending 6 or 7 steps on something I am doing in 3 --- I wonder what I'm overlooking.

Remember --
*"If you can keep your head - while all those around are losing theirs ----*
*You just DONT understand the situation."*


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

This is an interesting thread. Thanks all! I have to say... I understand what Niki is trying to accomplish here. Niki I could have used you and your method of squaring up until about 10 years ago. I finally got it thru my thick head that I did not have to be parallel to the table edge. Again I understand why you do what you do and that was the whole purpose of this thread. I am just glad that I was able to quit spending 30 minutes and 3 cigarettes trying to line up the fence. I still fight that urge... old habits are hard to break. Bob Noles had to remind me yesterday that I didn't have to have anything but clamps to mount the Incra Positioner down to the table... that I didn't have to have slots or T-channel in the table to help align the fence to the table. He of course was right... but I think I will still put an edge stop on one side to make it slide easier and help keep it close without having it sliding all over the table.  It still drives me nuts seeing a fence angled on top of the router table. At least I stop with an eyeball parallel check  now and put the squares and rulers etc. away

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

All I can say why ? 

If you watch Bob R. he is always pushing don't use a ruler and he is right you can read it many ways..(the ruler) and not the same each time .I like is Rubber Ruler that Bob has best ,the one he keeps in his pocket all the time..... 

A setup block works so easy ,just slide it next to the bit pull the fence in and lock the fence in place and your done, then just make the pass and it will be right on ,then if you need one more board the same way you just grab the setup up and make one more...we all make errors and will always need one more....  or that slot should be just a bit wider or just over by just a bit and the setup block can do that in a heart beat.

I should NOTE**** woodworking is learning how to fix the errors we all make, it can be something so simple like 4 parts to a box and one will be always a bit short or long ,it's just a part of woodworking , so the simple way is always the best...and setup blocks make it easy and simple... 

One more note*** Cowboy once you move your "trusty and somewhat rusty combination square" it is now a rubber ruler...you can take my word for it.
  

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Drugstore Cowboy said:


> Help me out here -
> For the sake of argument let's say I know the distance from the front edge of the table to the center of the bit is 6"
> I want to make a 1/2" dado 2" from the edge of the piece.
> I'm using a 1/2" bit.
> ...


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> All I can say why ?
> . . .
> ...


:sold: No arguing with that.
Truth be told -- I have been known to do it that way particularly on my table saw
When I need 3/4" I turn a 1x on its side. For 2" I use the broad side of my framing square etc.
And yes - for repetitive measurements -- I rip the desired width first and use that piece.

As for why I bother to do it the other way ---
I blame it on lingering trauma from Jr Hi math  --
Just *getting the right answer* was not enough
you had to -
* show your work *​So -- I have this tendency to think everything has to be a process -
If it's too easy -- it can't be --- 'right'.

Also a reason I am always fascinated by detailed outlines like Nik and others give of various jigs etc -- even when I dont totally 'get' them.

Thank you for affirming the right to keep it simple.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

OYVAY indeed, I'm still holding my head. As always, Niki's projects are ingenious and well thought out and beautifully presented, but as everyone should know by now I'm rather lazy and opt for the simple ways to achieve outcomes and I suspect that unlike metal-workers who need greater accuracy, most woodworkers would tend to be like me. Half my enjoyment doing woodwork is derived from turning errors into features! Large boxes sometimes end up as medium or even small boxes!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

When I got my Incra Universal Positioning Jig about a year ago I didn't want to buy it because I knew they would come out with a diag.read out type and maybe one with a small IC chip (computer on board ,set and forget type) and it's coming for the router table so all the guess work will be taken away.....more or less  for the fence....
Just as soon as Incra sales all the ones they have made up for sale around the world...we will get the new stuff...  high end tech stuff....

Bj


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Good, that's what I like about new HI Tech stuff, it makes the old stuff I couldn't afford before available at a much better price  I didn't know you have the Incra, do you use it much? 

Corey


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> . . . computer on board ,set and forget type. . .  high end tech stuff....
> 
> Bj


 SAY IT AINT SO !!!!!!!!!!! 
I do tech support and network management for a library - so I deal with computers and all their weirdness all day long. 
I go into my shop to get AWAY from that.
I'm not quite skilled or patient enough to go the hand-tools-only route but I like to stay as low-tech and close to the wood as possible.
And besides when my combination square 'locks up' I can fix it with WD40 
And any 'bugs' can be handled with HotShot.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Corey

Nope I don't use it , it's in a box in the shop I should take it out and try it one more time on the little router table....but then again I would need to make a wing out the back side or the right side of the table to use it... and the little table works just the way I want it to....plus I have so many jigs to put in dovetails and slots and that take less work to setup and use....

Talking about that little router table, I made some (4ea) walnut fingers for the Katie jig and that little table is great   the parts are not that big and it did a great job on them and I didn't mind holding the parts with my hands because I can get right on top of it and see all the cuts...great little Colt router....


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challagan said:


> Good, that's what I like about new HI Tech stuff, it makes the old stuff I couldn't afford before available at a much better price  I didn't know you have the Incra, do you use it much?
> 
> Corey


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks for sharing Niki...Using your method I should be able to set the fence right on the money in less than a minute. It looks like it would be both very quick and very accurate! I like the idea of starting out with solid reference points to help me keep my bearings straight.

Greg


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Good day friends

So that's what you were doing there when I was sleeping here 

First, to remove any confusion about the fence position relative to the table, I took some pics...

You can put the fence like that with a spacer (3/4") between the fence and the bit and the slot will start 3/4" from the workpiece edge.










But you can get the same result with the fence at this position









Or even this position









Actually, you can clamp on side of the fence to act as a pivot point









Put the spacer, move the other side of the fence to the spacer and clamp it to the table










About the hard way and the easy way...I think that what looks easy for one...looks hard for others and vice-versa.
For some (or all) of you, my method looks hard but for me it looks very simple and easy...Yes, it's true that I have to make a T-fence (that adds 10~15 min to the fence construction time) but, only ONES and yes, it's true that I have to make the slot and the plates, but, only ONES...

I timed the fence setting starting with nothin exept the fence and the micro-adjuster on the table.
I put the locator and the caliper, turned the micro-adjuster knob distance of 10 mm (3/8") to get the required fence/bit distance and locked the fence...looked at the clock...12 seconds...









What I'm getting from it ? A lot of accuracy, sorry but, I love accuracy...did I say Love...I'm crazy about accuracy. When I make a groove or slot at 20 mm from the board edge and at the depth of 10 mm...I want it to be 20 ± 0.0 and 10 ± 0.0 and believe me, it's such a pleasure when it happens.

A few days ago, I posted my "First box" and you could see the fit of the fingers...it would not happen if the spacer that I was using was not exactly 20 mm.

Will I change your mind...no...
Will you change my mind...also no...

We are just sharing our jig and fixtures and everybody has a little bit different vie on "how things should be done" but, I think that there is no such a think like the "easy way" or the "hard way", it's personal and everybody has his opinion.

sometimes when I see some jig, it looks to me very complicated but, for the creator it looks very simple (and I'm sure that the creator have seen other versions of the jig).

And to finish, let me tell you a story;
One guy came from abroad...to the customs...
"What you have to declare" ask the customs officer
"Birds food"...
"Birds food ?, lets see it"
The guy opened the suitcase and the officer said
"That's not a birds food, that's coffee"
"Well...they want they eat...they don't wont the don't eat" 

GregW
Thank you
As I said if I can help even one person...I made my money...

Best Regards
niki


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

Well it's a new world and it's the computer that will take over may jobs in the shop,,, just like the CNC machine and the robots they can do it better and with less errors and real wood is one of the items that will become very hard to get some day  you can't go out in your back yard and cut down a 18" oak three like in the old days ( Roy Underhill woodworking days) so the computer will be needed for the home shop...and because most Americans love new type of tools they will eat them up, you can see it coming in the new look of routers ,the big 3 1/4HP bright green one is just one of them ....and it's just the tip of the iceburg....
http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-M12V2...94-7750249?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1182864723&sr=8-1
and I'm sure the other mfg.will jump on the band wagon in time.. 
I think you and I will see a real speed display on routers in a short time along with a new look  for many of them....the computer chip is just down the road and it's coming...

OK so I will get off the soap box for now  








Drugstore Cowboy said:


> SAY IT AINT SO !!!!!!!!!!!
> I do tech support and network management for a library - so I deal with computers and all their weirdness all day long.
> I go into my shop to get AWAY from that.
> I'm not quite skilled or patient enough to go the hand-tools-only route but I like to stay as low-tech and close to the wood as possible.
> ...


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

OK Niki you win. To each his own. I commend you for all the work you do to achieve your goals. I'll stick to my gefilte fish way of doing things. 


Gary(boychick)


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> Well it's a new world and it's the computer that will take over may jobs in the shop,,, just like the CNC machine and the robots they can do it better ....and it's just the tip of the iceburg....the computer chip is just down the road and it's coming...
> 
> OK so I will get off the soap box for now


The *SADDEST* thing about what you said -- is that it is *probably true*.
I appreciate your using correct terminology about the CNC machine and the robots etc --- "they" do it -- not the craftsman -- he is reduced to a button pusher. 
Personally -- I prefer a piece of work that I know someone has put their heart and soul and sweat into -- even WITH its 'mistakes' and 'waste'. Making mistakes - and learning from them -- or figuring out ways to fit them into the work is - to me at least - part of what wood craft is all about.

And that is usually why the people who ask me to do projects for them do so - because I tell them up front - they can get by quicker and cheaper if they just go to Wally World and buy something off the shelf.

This is nothing new -- There is a line in Teahouse of the August Moon - where the villagers have tried to raise money selling handcrafted goods to the servicemen --- only to be rebuffed and told that they could buy the same thing cheaper at the dime store. 
Only it is NOT the same.

I'm no techno-phobe. Computers have their place. In factories they do make things faster and cheaper so more people can afford them. In medicine - heck - I've had two angioplasties and a triple bypass -- without the technology that made those possible -- I wouldn't be here.

But - when it comes down to what is treasured and has meaning - again at least to me - it's the human touch. I'll take a carving any day that someone sat for hours with knife and chisel and poured his soul into -- over one -- no matter how much 'better' it was technically - that he just downloaded a picture off of google - stuck a board in a CompuCarve and pressed a button.

I am *glad* that you are so excited about this sterile computerized 'brave new world'. No - that's not sarcasm - I am truly glad -- for you. Because you are right - that very likely IS the world that you - or your kids will be living in.

For me -- I'm glad I got to live in a world where craftsman was not just a label on a product in an ancient catalogue. And frankly - not disappointed at all that I will likely be gone before this new world comes to full fruition.

My apologies to Nik for straying so far from his original post --- 
And to any I may have offended - there was certainly NONE intended.


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

simplenik said:


> About the hard way and the easy way...I think that what looks easy for one...looks hard for others and vice-versa.
> 
> . . .What I'm getting from it ? A lot of accuracy, sorry but, I love accuracy...did I say Love...I'm crazy about accuracy. When I make a groove or slot at 20 mm from the board edge and at the depth of 10 mm...I want it to be 20 ± 0.0 and 10 ± 0.0 and believe me, it's such a pleasure when it happens.
> 
> . . . everybody has a little bit different vie on "how things should be done" but, I think that there is no such a think like the "easy way" or the "hard way", it's personal and everybody has his opinion.


I think you summed it up WONDERFULLY.
Most often what is 'easiest' depends on how you were trained or what you are used to. Any long time computer users out there will remember the wars that were fought when the Mac came out over whether a mouse and icons were or weren't easier than keyboard and code.

Nik - to be honest - I _often_ find myself looking at some of your stuff and wondering why you _seem_ to be going to Canada by way of Mexico (sorry).
*BUT*
I *ALWAYS* find myself APPLAUDING the thought and effort you put into each project and the joy you clearly get from coming up with a way to achieve your goal and the sense of personal accomplishment you appear to get from having done it with your own mind and hands.


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## simplenik (Feb 14, 2006)

Sorry for the so late reply, electric power failure

Gary
I think that soon we can start talking in Yiddish  (I know only the basic vocabulary)...I don't like Gefilte fish...I cannot eat sweet fish

Cowboy
Thank you for your kind remarks and no problem with diverting from the main subject...that's all about "Forum"...

Regards
niki


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## Dimarini (Nov 17, 2007)

One reason I could see for keeping the fence in a certain direction (i.e. square to the table edge) would be if your table top is not totally flat in a certain direction (i.e. a dip in one area of the table) it could give you some more predictable results.

Of course, your mileage may vary depending on your individual application.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

If your tabletop has a dip in it, it's time to replace it.


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## Dimarini (Nov 17, 2007)

AxlMyk said:


> If your tabletop has a dip in it, it's time to replace it.


I agree, just trying to give a possible situation where the direction could matter.


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