# TS Mishap



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

About a week or so ago I was ripping a 2X4 block into a 1X2 on the table saw and was using a plastic pusher stick that came with my Bosch table saw. I really like the feel of the pusher stick as it is heavy and fits my hand. Apparently as the block was leaving the saw blade, I angled the pusher to keep it tight against the fence and the blade caught the push stick.

The pusher exploded in my hand, putting a gash in my palm that required 7 stitches. The fact I am on blood thinners didn't help the situation either. It wasn't squirting ,just seeping and soaking.

Later upon examining the pusher stick it looks like my assumption was right in having twisted the pusher into the blade. The block didn't kick back and showed no sign of the mishap. It looked like the blade melted the plastic and welded to it for a second by the cut in the pusher. I wonder if a wooden pusher would have faired better? I am certain a wooden one would not have exploded.



Here are some pictures to give you an idea of what I am talking about.

Herb


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Sorry to hear about the accident, hope that it heals quickly. I have a plastic pusher made by, I think CMT, but it's solid from the handle down with no holes. I've nudged the blade with it a couple of times pushing parts that were barely wider than the stick and just have a worn spot on the end. You were lucky, the pieces could have flown up and hit you in the face.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Herb - sorry about the accident - it could have been much worse - if your pressure had been greater you would have pushed your hand right into the blade.

That style of pusher is, in my opinion, one of the worst designs as far as safety is concerned. All the pressure is at the rear of the stock - easy to skew the work piece sideways causing kickback. Pressure needs to be applied downward along more of the work piece as it goes through. This style is much better but if you want real safety, go with the GRRPipper - money well spent.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

vchiarelli said:


> This style is much better but if you want real safety, go with the GRRPipper - money well spent.


A big DITTO.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Sorry about your hand Herb. I make my own push sticks from 3/4" plywood scraps. They are similar to the shape of your plastic one. If I am ripping something narrower than 3/4 the push stick gets a kerf (why doesn't spell check accept that spelling of kerf?) in it. When it gets chewed up I make another. Usually there are 3 or 4 laying around the shop


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## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

vchiarelli said:


> Herb - sorry about the accident - it could have been much worse - if your pressure had been greater you would have pushed your hand right into the blade.
> 
> That style of pusher is, in my opinion, one of the worst designs as far as safety is concerned. All the pressure is at the rear of the stock - easy to skew the work piece sideways causing kickback. Pressure needs to be applied downward along more of the work piece as it goes through. This style is much better but if you want real safety, go with the GRRPipper - money well spent.


GRRPipper is $ well spent, I also am in love with feather boards to hold stock. 

Sorry about your accident!:frown:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Geez, Herb...that had to hurt. Get better quick, eh!
You probably should let Bosch know that in a crunch their push-stick design is more of a threat than a safety device(?).
(If they offer to _replace_ the push-stick you'll know they aren't clear on the message.  )


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Sorry to hear it Herb. It is interesting as I just bought a GRRRipper off eBay for $45. Never used one before but maybe it will save me. I think I will avoid any plastic push sticks like the Bosch you had.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I agree with Dan, send Bosch the pictures. They may want to change the design or at least issue a warning about letting the blade contact it.

I like to make pushers similar to what Vince is showing except out of 1/4 to 3/8 ply. You cut it out so that there is a 1/4" or so hook left at the back of the bottom like the heel on a shoe. Since it's home made and usually out of scrap it doesn't hurt your feelings if you nick it. And you can usually cut a new heel a few times before it needs to be tossed.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Well you weren't kidding about it exploding! Now Herb, please be careful in the future and use a second stick to push the wood into the fence. Then you won't have to angle the single pushstick.

I hope the gash heals quickly, although as you're on the thinners, it may take a little longer going on evidence from my S/O who get's bruises at work that takes weeks to go away.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your injury, Herb. I agree with Dan and would share the pictures and a narrative of of your experience with their pusher. Personally I only use wooden push blocks and sticks case I can customize them to my wants. I have been thinking of getting a gripper. You misfortune may influence and expedite my decision.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

I'm glad that you're OK now, Herb. I've got that same stick (and same saw), and I'll definitely not use it for this any more.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Holy cow! I never thought about that happening. I'm glad the damage was limited to your hand, and not further up on you. I think you just settled my coin toss as to whether to buy a Grrripper. Just one thing. Is that dried glue drops in the picture, or is your blood yellow? Maybe you're overdoing it with the blood thinners. Just kidding. I'm glad you're OK.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Grrripper guy here too. Use it a lot. But when cutting a narrow strip, I don't want the strip trapped between blade and fence, so I use the Rockler Thin Strip jig for that purpose. I do this kind of cut fairly often, and the jig really is safer. If I need to push the piece toward the fence, I use a second stick and press from the side. I have a push stick like the home made one above which I use occasionally, but I prefer the Grrripper if there is enough of the workpiece for it to rest on. I have two for longer pieces, but rarely need the second. 

Really glad you got off light with that accident. A few stitches is a small price to pay for such a good lesson. Thanks for sharing the danger, I'm tossing those plastic push sticks out today.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@DesertRatTom

I have two of the notched push sticks and use one from the feed end and the other on the outside edge to keep the wood both tight to the fence and from lifting up - recommend that set-up when ripping relatively narrow strips rather than plywood panels. Agree on the Rockler Thin Strip Jig - after a while you get the "feel" on how tight to move the fence/wood over against the roller and get uniform thickness strips. Guess I'm in the minority, bought the Gripper with the extra thin piece specifically for ripping thin strips and it walked on me the first time. Maybe I need to give it another chance.

You can see my orange (CMT?) push stick lying behind the fence.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks everyone for all the good comments and good tidings, I think I will go with wood as I have for all these years. I had a plastic one like Vince showed and really liked it, and also bought the Gripper years ago, but never used it, lost it in the fire and never replaced it. I might just get one again and try it since everyone that has one likes it so much. I do have a clone but it is so big and unweildy that I don't use it much.
Normally I use the band saw for short cuts like that and then sand the edge with the drum sander on a sled.

My hand seems to be healing good, it took the doc only minutes to stop the bleeding with some antibiotic gel that had something in it to shrink the corpuscles. I need some of that stuff when I am shaving. LOL
Herb


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Herb, 

I'm sorry to read about your incident and hope you aren't in any pain as well as wish you a complete and rapid recovery.

Bryan


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## Hunter125 (Oct 20, 2016)

Sorry for the double post.


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## Hunter125 (Oct 20, 2016)

Sorry to hear about your accident, glad it was not more serious. I have a Bosch TS as well, same push stick. I also picked up some cheapo plastic push sticks the night I picked up my TS . The next day, I was running some stock through, and the stick contacted the blade, and the tip exploded. No injury, but it sounded like a gunshot going off. I immediately made a wooden push stick, then later made one I feel is a little safer. They are both getting pretty chewed up, so I have plans to make some more soon.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear, Herb...hope you heal quickly...thanks for sharing and giving all of us a reminder...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

bryansong said:


> Herb,
> 
> I'm sorry to read about your incident and hope you aren't in any pain as well as wish you a complete and rapid recovery.
> 
> Bryan


You know Bryan, it never hurt except for the initial Bang and then it was numb. Didn't bleed for 20 minutes or so later. I but a band aid on it and kept working. Then noticed it running down my arm, so packed it with gauze and put a rubber glove on it, and went back to work, pretty soon that was soaked, so wrapped it in a wash cloth and put pressure on it, that helped but soon soaked, about then decided I better go get it fixed. 
5 hrs. later I was home again, I hate to go to ER, sit and wait. I could have been out of there in 20 minutes if they would have fixed it and sent me home.
Herb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> You know Bryan, it never hurt except for the initial Bang and then it was numb. Didn't bleed for 20 minutes or so later. I but a band aid on it and kept working. Then noticed it running down my arm, so packed it with gauze and put a rubber glove on it, and went back to work, pretty soon that was soaked, so wrapped it in a wash cloth and put pressure on it, that helped but soon soaked, about then decided I better go get it fixed.
> 5 hrs. later I was home again, I hate to go to ER, sit and wait. I could have been out of there in 20 minutes if they would have fixed it and sent me home.
> Herb


I could have done it for you faster...just need to sharpen the awl... :grin:


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Herb, glad you made out OK. That's pretty weird how the pusher exploded. I too have plastic pushers and have nicked the blade on occasion, never with that result, thank goodness!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I never liked pusher sticks and have always used some form of shop made pusher that held the work down as well as pushed it forward. Sixty years ago when I was first learning how to use a table saw and other power woodworking tools, my uncle told me to "never ever do anything on a table saw that requires putting any part of you within 6 inches of the blade or bit.Stop, and find another way to do it." That rule was deeply embedded into my brain while working with him and it has kept me safe all these years. He also showed me how to make pushers that held the work down as well as pushed it forward. You need to hold the whole piece down, not just the back edge.

About 8 years ago I bought two Grrippers, but it was almost 2 years later before I could get myself to use them close in and for small pieces. When you use them your hand passes above the blade, and frequently it's only about 1 1/2" above. This violated that 6" rule that was so deeply engrained in my head and it made me very nervous about using them until I managed to convince myself that there was this heavy piece of plastic between my hand and the blade, and that as long as I hung onto the handle I was safe. Adding to this, if you ever cut into any part of a Grripper, you will discover that it emits a very strong and unique odor which will immediately tell your brain that something is wrong. It's an unadvertised safety feature. I've never smelled anything like it, and I only nicked one of the side pieces. 

Once I got past the 6" rule to accept the Grrippers I began to appreciate how well they worked, if I took a moment before each cut to adjust them and the blade height correctly. I made a doll house size horse barn for my grand daughter that required making many 1/8" strips and L shaped corner trim. I doubt that I could have made them safely without the Grrippers. I even made corral fences glued together from 1/8" thick strips.

Along with and before the Grrippers, I have frequently made push blocks, sometimes even from 2 X 6 and 2 X 8 or thinner material, like 1/4 - 3/4 Baltic Birch that always has an L shaped cut in the bottom so it will hold the work down as well as push it, and a handle high enough to be above 6" from the blade. These pushers are always long enough to be a minimum of about 1/3 of the length of the cut and I always set the blade height to be about a tooth above the work, and always do a kind-of dry run to make sure everything will go well. If the blade will be passing closely along side of my pusher I will glue a block below the handle piece that the blade will hit before it reaches my hand. 

I've seen guys hold little tiny pieces of wood and push it along with their fingers while hooking a couple of fingers over the top of the fence, and I cringe when I see them do this. Then I try to convince them of a safer way to do it. 

Herb, I'm sorry to see that you had this unfortunate experience, but I'm glad that you didn't loose any body parts in the process. I hope you completely heal soon. I also hope you have learned a lesson about push sticks and saw safety. Grrippers are great, but bigger shop made pushers that also hold the work down are quite safe too. I'll have to take some pictures of some of mine and post them.

Charley


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb I'm just blown away at the outcome of that push stick . I'm certainly glad you didn't hurt any worse than you did . This goes to show that even a seasoned pro can have an incident .
I'm going to take a look at my pushsticks , and if they have empty voids like that there going in the dumpster . 

Hope your hand heals quickly, and I can hardly imagine how soar it is . Btw , I'm liking your wood push stick idea


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'd be willing to venture its more the materials used to make up the push stick than the design. It looks like shock wave traveled up thru the material ..The blade caught that thing just right........BANG!

glad a couple stitches is all you got out of it Herb...heal well, and heal fast!!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Man, what a great safety lesson for all of us, and only cost him 7 stitches. Take heed, grasshopper, that blade is spinning far faster than you can react.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Sorry to hear of you mishap Herb, hope recovery is swift. I'm also in the Grippeeeer camp owning two.


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

Wow, Herb... I'm glad your injury wasn't worse, though I'm sure it hurt like hell anyway, and I'm really glad that you decided to post this so that we all could learn from your mishap. I don't own plastic pushers, largely because I'm too cheap so I've made my own, but after seeing this I wouldn't ever buy a plastic one.
These are my homemade pushers. The big one has a replaceable piece of 1/4 plywood on the back end.








http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh626/keninlowell/Safety/pusher1_zpsxdbyhyfr.jpg


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

WOW!!

Herb, glad it was superficial and not dismemberment. Reattachments are rare with saw blades – they chew things up too bad.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a caution for all the Grripper owners. We did have a member post a few years ago who had been using a Grripper and it flipped on him and he wound up with finger amputations. He didn't go into great detail but the only theory I can come up with is that the piece he was sawing had some bad grain and the cut either closed or the piece warped and put pressure against the fence pushing it into the back of the blade which caused him to lose control. He said it suddenly flipped over upside down putting his fingers into the blade. So no matter what you are using to push with you still have to use caution and be acutely aware of what is happening in front of, on top of, and behind the saw blade at all times.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just a caution for all the Grripper owners. We did have a member post a few years ago who had been using a Grripper and it flipped on him and he wound up with finger amputations. He didn't go into great detail but the only theory I can come up with is that the piece he was sawing had some bad grain and the cut either closed or the piece warped and put pressure against the fence pushing it into the back of the blade which caused him to lose control. He said it suddenly flipped over upside down putting his fingers into the blade. So no matter what you are using to push with you still have to use caution and be acutely aware of what is happening in front of, on top of, and behind the saw blade at all times.


Yikes! 
As I was was reading about the Gripper , I was concerned about having my hand that physical close to the blade . Thanks for posting Charles


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just a caution for all the Grripper owners. We did have a member post a few years ago who had been using a Grripper and it flipped on him and he wound up with finger amputations. He didn't go into great detail but the only theory I can come up with is that the piece he was sawing had some bad grain and the cut either closed or the piece warped and put pressure against the fence pushing it into the back of the blade which caused him to lose control. He said it suddenly flipped over upside down putting his fingers into the blade. So no matter what you are using to push with you still have to use caution and be acutely aware of what is happening in front of, on top of, and behind the saw blade at all times.


I'm finding that accident hard to understand. Maybe he didn't use the side extension leg to hold the Grripper flat on the top of a piece of wood narrower than the Grripper. 
He quite likely wasn't holding the handle tightly either.

Any Grripper user should watch their training/demonstration video several times before using one. You don't have to buy it. It's on YouTube too, so you can watch it free. There are many different configurations for Grrippers, and some work better than others for certain kinds of sawing. Learning to place the Grripper on the board near, but not against the fence and then sliding it toward the fence until the Grripper side is against the fence is the best way to get the board held tightly against the fence during the cut, is a great tip that isn't learned unless you watch the video. Also, the proper use of the side support leg, which can be configured several ways. 

The shop made pushers that I like to use are similar to the lower ones in the picture that @kklowell posted, but I make the handle portion higher, so my fingers are further away from the blade. They do a great job of holding down the work as well as pushing it past the blade. I have several in varying designs and widths, and even some made from 2 by stock, which frequently end up with blade kerfs through them, because I wanted to push both the work and the off cut. They are easy to make replacements for, so why not. Using two separate pushers runs the risk of forcing the pieces together, which can result in kick-back. One wide pusher with hold down capability for both pieces avoids this.

Charley


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

WoW!! Glad this was a relatively cheap round for you Herb. I've NEVER been comfortable using that style of push stick.... never thought it gave a person enough control over the piece being cut. Of course, the thought that it would explode like that when it did it's job never occurred to me either! I too make my own, similar to the first one that Vince posted, out of 1/2" or 3/4" material. I also have a couple of "push pads" like this Push pad that I use almost exclusively on the router table. There is a couple of chewed up corners, which continue to remind me of their effectiveness.


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## Web Shepherd (Feb 8, 2012)

Herb ~ Thanks for taking time to share your story and photos. If you decide to contact Bosch, please let us know what their response is. Glad to know that you are on the mend with all body parts intact.

Bob


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Daikusan said:


> WOW!!
> 
> Herb, glad it was superficial and not dismemberment. Reattachments are rare with saw blades – they chew things up too bad.


Yep. My son is a recently anointed ER doctor, and he said the more woodworking injuries he sees, the more he worries about me in the shop.


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## Flipsaw (Mar 11, 2016)

Hunter, 

those push sticks look like the blade cuts are from the push stick being on its side or am I missing something??


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I think Herb has created yet another project for me , discard my plastic push sticks and make wood ones .
I think the shop can get by without heat for another year :|


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I agree with Dan, send Bosch the pictures. They may want to change the design or at least issue a warning about letting the blade contact it.
> 
> I like to make pushers similar to what Vince is showing except out of 1/4 to 3/8 ply. You cut it out so that there is a 1/4" or so hook left at the back of the bottom like the heel on a shoe. Since it's home made and usually out of scrap it doesn't hurt your feelings if you nick it. And you can usually cut a new heel a few times before it needs to be tossed.


Herb,

I agree that pictures should be sent to Bosch so they are aware of how these sticks explode when hit by the blade. These were probably made by another company and the decision to include them with the saw was probably made by an accountant trying to save pennies and not someone that was in the design department that would be looking at safety as a design consideration. Unfortunately you discovered the flaw and were hurt, good thing is you still have all your digits, the next person might not be as lucky.

Glad everything turned out okay and you are healing.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

CharleyL said:


> I'm finding that accident hard to understand. Maybe he didn't use the side extension leg to hold the Grripper flat on the top of a piece of wood narrower than the Grripper.
> He quite likely wasn't holding the handle tightly either.
> 
> Charley


Very possible Charley. He didn't go into any detail. He mostly told me only what I related. The thread was one he started asking how to do something and I suggested that it was really easy on a table saw and he said that he had had one but had gotten rid of it because of the finger amputations. I asked him why and he told me about the Grripper incident. He implied that he didn't understand how it happened and that it happened so quickly he didn't see it coming. His tone was that he didn't really want to talk about it so I refrained from asking a long series of questions which might not have shed light on the problem anyway.

Anyway, the incident was worth retelling and a reminder that is no such thing as a totally safe safety system. There is always a risk of failure and it usually happens as a result of complacency and inattention.


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## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

A sobering experience, for sure. Thanks for sharing. Happy that your injury was, in the end, not as serious as it might have been. 

Say it with me: the table saw is the most dangerous tool in the shop.

FWIW, I am obsessed with safety in the shop, but when I have to remove safety gear from the table saw, I get conflicted. Here's my situation.

I have a Craftsman table saw, 10 years old. Very nice saw, but no splitter behind the blade if I remove the blade guard, which I hate to do. When I do remove the blade guard for a dado or narrow rip, I always use the GRR-Ripper. I have 3 of them, set up for different cuts & thicknesses, and I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this product.

When the blade guard IS in place (always preferred), then I can make rips as narrow as 3/4". I always use a push stick, of course, and I have a pair that have an aluminum blade with plastic handle. The metal blade is much stronger than plastic, of course, and I've thrown away every plastic push stick I've ever tried when it bends. They all do.

The aluminum blade slips between the blade guard and fence in a narrow space, allowing me to keep the blade guard in place down to a 3/4" rip. On the one occasion (one!) that the aluminum blade (barely) touched the blade, it deformed slightly on the tip, and the work piece went through the blade without a hitch. The Woodworker II was not damaged either.

So, for me, a GRR-Ripper for rips under 7/8", and a blade guard & aluminum push stick for every other rip. 

Your mileage, of course, may vary.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Re: the flipping Grrripper. As you get near the end of the rip cut, the gripper may not have enough traction on the board to move it forward, so it is tempting to move it back over the end to push forward. If something slips, the Grrripper could easily slip off,flip up and flip again (if it hit the blade), and there goes a couple of digits. The safety really comes from the device's downward pressure, use it tilted to push with, removes that down pressure, and thus, the safety factor.

Probably the best cure is to occasionally renew a layer of wax on the table to ease movement of the workpiece. You can get a replaceable tab for the Gripper to get a grip on the back end of the board. But a little wax couldn't hurt.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

O-o-o-o-h, that hurts!!!!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

paduke said:


> Sorry about your hand Herb. I make my own push sticks from 3/4" plywood scraps. They are similar to the shape of your plastic one. If I am ripping something narrower than 3/4 the push stick gets a kerf (why doesn't spell check accept that spelling of kerf?) in it. When it gets chewed up I make another. Usually there are 3 or 4 laying around the shop


I do have a GRRRipper, and do use it a lot. But still make push sticks out of 1/2" plywood, toss when chewed up, make a new one. Even when using the GRRRipper tho, often use a push stick on the side. But if just using a push stick to push, I ALWAYS use another push stick to apply pressure from the side, either that or use may hand - with it waay in front of the blade, but usually a push stick. I've seen plastic push sticks that are solid, even used some until they got chewed up, but that thing with the holes I would probably just toss before using it.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Sorry to hear of the accident Herb. All the best for a speedy recovery. 

I use the Gripper approach routinely as well as the thin strip jig advocated by Tom and Tom. However I upgraded to the one from Lee Valley as I beleive it is a bit more stable. When ripping thin strips I also tape a vacum hose up by the blade which then sucks the thin strip away from the blade as soon as the cut is finished. I think this approach was originally described on the forum but I don't recall the post.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

paduke said:


> Sorry about your hand Herb. I make my own push sticks from 3/4" plywood scraps. They are similar to the shape of your plastic one. If I am ripping something narrower than 3/4 the push stick gets a kerf (why doesn't spell check accept that spelling of kerf?) in it. When it gets chewed up I make another. Usually there are 3 or 4 laying around the shop


Like Bill I make my own, I have not seen a plastic one shatter like that but thinking about it I can see how it happened, Tables saws require the utmost care, I'm not blaming you but you need to make sure a push stick does not contact the blade, timber and ply pushers are safer as they just get nicked and need to be remade, there is a good lesson here, plastic ones can shatter so we can see now that they do. N


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

neville9999 said:


> Like Bill I make my own, I have not seen a plastic one shatter like that but thinking about it I can see how it happened, Tables saws require the utmost care, I'm not blaming you but you need to make sure a push stick does not contact the blade, timber and ply pushers are safer as they just get nicked and need to be remade, there is a good lesson here, plastic ones can shatter so we can see now that they do. N


I agree with you and everyone else on the forum, that it was operator error mostly. But I wanted to point out what happens to plastic as opposed to wood. As I said before ,I liked that pusher, it was heavy and felt good and kept my hand away from the saw.
I think the draw backs are that plastic is more brittle than wood and more slippery where it does not have as much friction between the wood and the pusher.

In any event I just ordered the full meal deal of 2 grrippers. based on what you guys have said about them.

Herb


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

That's great Herb. Now go watch the Micro Jig Videos. 

Here is one of them, kind of an introduction, but there are many on YouTube. 



 They sell the DVD, but they should be giving them away with each Grripper sold.

Charley


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

CharleyL said:


> That's great Herb. Now go watch the Micro Jig Videos.
> 
> Here is one of them, kind of an introduction, but there are many on YouTube. https://youtu.be/lDUg_lfculQ They sell the DVD, but they should be giving them away with each Grripper sold.
> 
> Charley


Charley , that videos made a believer out of me . I'm going to take mine out of its box .
So much for overhead dust collection


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just noticed that the Rockler thin strip jig went on sale for $20.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

CharleyL said:


> That's great Herb. Now go watch the Micro Jig Videos.
> 
> Here is one of them, kind of an introduction, but there are many on YouTube. https://youtu.be/lDUg_lfculQ They sell the DVD, but they should be giving them away with each Grripper sold.
> 
> Charley


Thanks Charley, I will defiantly watch those as it is good to learn how to use a new tool.
On the same subject, I often thought that router bits should have instructions in the package on what speeds to use them, which way to set them up to cut horizontal or vertical. Routers have always been a learn it yourself tool, and for a new woodworker,that means trial and error. 
Herb


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## denis lock (Oct 26, 2007)

I am sorry to hear about your accident and wish you a speedy recovery. The question nobody has asked is where was the blade guard? I have been using a table saw (starting with an 8" blade on a ShopSmith in 1953) for nigh on 65 years. I will not make any cut without a guard over the saw blade. If I have to remove the manufacturer supplied guard in order to make a partial cut (rebate, dado, groove ...) I will jury rig some sort of guard using a piece of plywood, some raiser blocks and a couple of C-clamps). As I tell my students I think I've had enough practice to saw safely - what worries me is a dizzy spell, a mini-stroke, a temporary loss of balance an there goes my hand onto a spinning amputation wheel! 

Denis Lock - Johannesburg, South Africa


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

JFPNCM said:


> Sorry to hear of the accident Herb. All the best for a speedy recovery.
> 
> I use the Gripper approach routinely as well as the thin strip jig advocated by Tom and Tom. However I upgraded to the one from Lee Valley as I beleive it is a bit more stable. When ripping thin strips I also tape a vacum hose up by the blade which then sucks the thin strip away from the blade as soon as the cut is finished. I think this approach was originally described on the forum but I don't recall the post.


While you can get along with a regular insert when cutting most parts, a zero-clearance is mandatory when cutting thin strips, no matter what method you are using.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I've never used those type of push sticks. When I got my first cheap TS it came with one, then the dewalt TS came with another. I had read on here about kickback which, from all that was said, come s fromt eh rear of the blade lifting the rear of the wood bing sawn. Those push sticks only hold the wood down at the front which leaves the rear of the wood to be lifted by the blade. Now I seen this I'm glad my pushing appliances are wood and hold more of the wood being cut down.

Hope there's no pain now Herb.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

denisl said:


> spinning amputation wheel!


I never really thought of it like that. That's a good analogy , and something I'd portray to newbys :fie:


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your accident, Herb, but very glad it wasn't worse.

I think along the same lines as many of the guys here do... the push block needs to hold the material down, too. That stick you were using looks like it was designed to be strong only when it's straight. If it gets turned it looks weak. To me, those are like using chopsticks and I'm not very good with those. I'd rather use a hunk of 2x6 with a hardwood strip screwed on the back that hooks the material. I'll cut right into it for smaller stuff and when it gets damaged either change the cleat or the whole thing.

Get better soon, Herb.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

tomp913 said:


> While you can get along with a regular insert when cutting most parts, a zero-clearance is mandatory when cutting thin strips, no matter what method you are using.


Agree completely with the zero-clearance insert. I have one in place at all times as well as a set of splitters behind the blade.

Sorry about the double post, don't know how I did that. Perhaps one of the Mods can delete one.


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## Hunter125 (Oct 20, 2016)

This discussion prompted me to go ahead and make the push sticks I had been putting off for a while. Made a template and cut several out, then glued a few together to try different thicknesses to see what I like. Someone mentioned painting them to make sure they are distinguishable from other pieces lying around the shop, so they got a quick coat of red spray paint last night. Haven't had a chance to use them yet, but I have a couple projects on my honey do list, so they will probably see some use soon.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

So sorry about your injury, glad it wasn't worse!

Every time I know of someone who buys a new table saw, I always direct them to get a GRR-Ripper. I had an old craftsman jobsite that came with a similar push stick. One time it barely made contact with the blade, and it to exploded, thankfully with no injury. The plastic they use on those cheap-o push sticks that tend to be included with table saws is hard and brittle, which doesn't allow for the blade to properly pass through like it will on a GRR-Ripper or a wood push block. 

The other thing I don't like about those sticks is that they are two long, and as others mentioned give you minimal control on a small point on the back of the board. Before I switch to using the Grr-Ripper, I used two wooden push sticks (one to push the piece through, the other to hold against the fence), and even then I still didn't feel as in control of the board as I do with the Grr-Ripper. Yes, it is expensive, but it is well worth it.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just a caution for all the Grripper owners. We did have a member post a few years ago who had been using a Grripper and it flipped on him and he wound up with finger amputations. He didn't go into great detail but the only theory I can come up with is that the piece he was sawing had some bad grain and the cut either closed or the piece warped and put pressure against the fence pushing it into the back of the blade which caused him to lose control. He said it suddenly flipped over upside down putting his fingers into the blade. So no matter what you are using to push with you still have to use caution and be acutely aware of what is happening in front of, on top of, and behind the saw blade at all times.


Charles this is why I don't like push sticks that cover the work. I want to see the work piece and the blade, I want to know where they are. N


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just a caution for all the Grripper owners. We did have a member post a few years ago who had been using a Grripper and it flipped on him and he wound up with finger amputations. He didn't go into great detail but the only theory I can come up with is that the piece he was sawing had some bad grain and the cut either closed or the piece warped and put pressure against the fence pushing it into the back of the blade which caused him to lose control. He said it suddenly flipped over upside down putting his fingers into the blade. So no matter what you are using to push with you still have to use caution and be acutely aware of what is happening in front of, on top of, and behind the saw blade at all times.


I have been trying to think through on how this would have happened. In your theory, I can see that happening if there isn't a splitter. Two other thoughts I have is he did have a splitter or riving knife, and the work piece getting stuck between that and the fence, with the temptation to put more pressure on the work piece. With trying to force the piece with improper placement, I could see it flipping end over end sending his hand into the spinning blade. This could happen with any push block, not just the Grr-Ripper. The other thought is the piece was narrower than the gripper, and it wasn't properly supported, and could see it flipping down. I suppose under the wrong circumstances this could also create contact with the blade.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There are certainly a few possibilities. I wanted to ask more questions to see if I could pin down a cause but I got a distinct impression that it was something he didn't really want to talk about. 

I've always said that before you start a machine to do something you should quickly run through your mind what could go wrong and whether you are prepared for it and decide if you are doing it the best way. You see this on industrial work sites these days. Most start with a safety meeting where you review the job and what is expected of everyone involved.

Few things happen with no warning at all. If you are sawing a board with tension you can usually feel something wrong starting to happen for example and you can see if something is getting closer to the blade than it should be. The best solution is to stay absolutely focused. When I say focused I mean like a cat sitting on a windowsill watching a bird on a limb just outside the window. If you plan ahead and stay focused they you should be able to avoid incidents.


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## HoweA (Jul 31, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up reiterating TS safety. As all b4 me wish you speedy recovery. It's really goes without saying we need, unfortunately, reminders occasionally. Certainly glad it wasn't any worse,but surely you think it was "worse enuf" Take Care to better days.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Well I used my gripper for the first time today I was ripping a piece of white oak 1X6X14" to 3 1/2' wide. I started the rip ,the gripper was away from the fence about 1/2 " to get the blade to have a channel to go through with out cutting into the gripper. When it was all about 1" from the end the gripper started to slip and it freaked me out. I just applied more pressure and continued, and finished the cut and it was slipping til the end. I am not accustomed to having my hand that close to the blade, I have never been spooked by a table saw in my life, I could just see that saw kicking that piece back and my hand plunging into the blade.
I will order some of those little hooks for the back of the grripper before I use it again. On the next cut I used a wood one with a hook on the back that puts downward pressure on the piece. 
https://www.amazon.com/MICROJIG-GRG...rd_wg=yZsS1&psc=1&refRID=KC0FKZGN1TRDXAZBFN4P


I thought when I ordered the kits that they were part of it ,but they are an accessory.


Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Geez Herb that sounds scary to me also . I have a Gripper also and it's still in the box . I was going to use it for routing more than anything , and build wooden push sticks for the TS


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Those "hooks" are key but use them with respect for the TS.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Herb Certainly glad you didn’t become another statistic


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Herb, I definitely use the hooks with the gripper. Without them, you need a very smooth surface, and one thing I don't like about my Bosch 4100 TS is that I can't get its top as slippery as cast iron.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

... also Herb, that wood push stick you show in the photo reminds me of my preference now, the Bench Dog:

https://www.amazon.com/Bench-Dog-10-025-Push-Loc-Docking/dp/B000FW3VQ8

It's pretty thin, so you can do fairly thin rips. I also REALLY like the offset handle; anything to help keep my hand away from the blade. I sometimes use it in combination with the Bosch stick, where I just use the Bosch stick to help keep the work piece against the fence, when I'm too lazy to set up a feather board.

I use the Gripper a lot more on my jointer.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

furboo said:


> ... also Herb, that wood push stick you show in the photo reminds me of my preference now, the Bench Dog:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Bench-Dog-10-025-Push-Loc-Docking/dp/B000FW3VQ8
> 
> ...


Rob,on all the videos they show the hook only on the router table , or jointer,but no hook on the table saw.

I have to get my confidence back on the table saw, it is so ingrained in my mind to keep my hands away from the blade that I have a hard time with the Grriper.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> it is so ingrained in my mind to keep my hands away from the blade that I have a hard time with the Grriper.
> 
> Herb


That's understandable. I knew a guy who was thrown as he received an almost lethal shock . He couldn't hold on to a wire after that without shaking . 
I think you have TS-PTSD Herb :fie:


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rob,on all the videos they show the hook only on the router table , or jointer,but no hook on the table saw.
> 
> I have to get my confidence back on the table saw,* it is so ingrained in my mind to keep my hands away from the blade that I have a hard time with the Grriper.*
> 
> Herb


Herb - I hear you. I had the same problem at first - was leary about running my hand directly over the blade. I went through the process several times until I got comfortable before I ever attempted it with the saw running. Even now as I set the legs on the Grrper I still check the process before doing it with power.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> Herb - I hear you. I had the same problem at first - was leary about running my hand directly over the blade. I went through the process several times until I got comfortable before I ever attempted it with the saw running. Even now as I set the legs on the Grrper I still check the process before doing it with power.


I think the hook will help and as another member mentioned I have to put more pressure straight down on the board.

I did order that handle bridge accessory and the wide plate extension to extend the down leg out farther. Mybe that will help. 
I tried it again on a 3/8" thick piece of oak and it still slipped. I do like the way it pushes the scrap off-cut along and away from the blade.
Herb


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rob,on all the videos they show the hook only on the router table , or jointer,but no hook on the table saw.
> 
> I have to get my confidence back on the table saw, it is so ingrained in my mind to keep my hands away from the blade that I have a hard time with the Grriper.


I agree, and I should have been more clear. I seldom use the Gripper with my Bosch TS, and I believe it has a lot to do with that the Bosch aluminum surface is not as smooth as a cast iron surface. Even if I've just waxed or otherwise treated it, I have to use the hook, in which case I'd rather use the Bench Dog. The only exception would be for super-thin rips, but I haven't needed those for any project so far.

If someone with a Bosch has a different experience or technique, I'm willing to be educated :smile:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

furboo said:


> I agree, and I should have been more clear. I seldom use the Gripper with my Bosch TS, and I believe it has a lot to do with that the Bosch aluminum surface is not as smooth as a cast iron surface. Even if I've just waxed or otherwise treated it, I have to use the hook, in which case I'd rather use the Bench Dog. The only exception would be for super-thin rips, but I haven't needed those for any project so far.
> 
> If someone with a Bosch has a different experience or technique, I'm willing to be educated :smile:


My Bosch is he same. 
I was on the Craftsman with a cast iron top and it was slipping, but then again I never wax my saw bed either.
Herb


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Vince's advice was bang on regardless of how you approach the cut, "I still check the process before doing it with power." Caution is the watch word!


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> My Bosch is he same.
> I was on the Craftsman with a cast iron top and it was slipping, but then again I never wax my saw bed either.
> Herb


Try a wad of wax paper and rub it on the saw bed, it makes a BIG difference. I dont think the wax from the paper is enough to affect finish. It hasnt on mine.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Wax the saw table AND the fence. It makes a huge difference. I do it frequently, and every day when I'm doing a lot of cutting. I use Johnsons Paste Wax.

Charley


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

You might clean the GRRipper pads with alcohol. The pads get dirty.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Well the hooks for the back of the gripper arrived yesterday and I installed one on one of the Grripers. Also installed the handle bridge which allows me to adjust the handle instead of it being in a fixed position. Haven't tried it out yet as had a Dr. appointment for my hand. 
The ole hand is 99% healed, the Dr. suggested cutting around it and patching it in so the scar doesn't show. (he is a plastic Sturgeon,heh,heh) but I told him I would just have to live with the scar.

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You can use the scar as a reminder. As a fellow logger, I'm sure you have a collection of other scars it will join company with anyway.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Herb I'm glad it is healing so well. Make sure you wax the top on you saw, it makes a big difference and also helps protect the top from the elements.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> You can use the scar as a reminder. As a fellow logger, I'm sure you have a collection of other scars it will join company with anyway.


I have a collection of scars,but all my fingers , so far, so one more doesn't bother me, just glad that it healed and no infections. now back to the shop.
Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

MEBCWD said:


> Herb I'm glad it is healing so well. Make sure you wax the top on you saw, it makes a big difference and also helps protect the top from the elements.


Never done that before, will try it see if it makes a difference. 
Where I am set up now elements aren't a concern, but if it helps feed the material better, I am all for doing it.
Herb


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