# Cleaning cutters with fire?



## creative (Aug 17, 2015)

Good day everybody!

I was recently reading about carbide rotary burrs. 

One brand's recommended cleaning method was a propane torch. Said to hold torch flame to resin & wood buildup, get the metal to glow orange, let it cool, then use it on sacrificial stock to get the flakes out. Stated that a metal brush would be worse for the burr. 

So I began wondering - do any of you actually use propane flames to clean cutting surfaces like table saw blades or router bits? 

I recently cleaned up some of my 10' diablo blades with concentrated laundry detergent, followed by a towel and coat of boeshield. But a quick torching of the teeth would be so much easier.

My suspicion is that this generally isn't used because it'd harm the anti-friction coating on some of these cutters. But who knows, maybe buildup free metal is more slick than anti-friction coated edges with light buildup.

Thanks in advance, for any insight! :nerd:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

no...
and you can't be serious...
you might want to abandon that flame cleaning notion and leave it to the shade tree crowd...
all you get from it is...

wasted money..
shortened tool life..
changed metal tempers...
brittle carbide...
exploding carbide..
compromised brazing..
warped plates...
flaking metal...
damaged finishes..
changed balances,...
misaligned center axis...
and a possible trip to the ER if one of the teeth on a blade or a cutter on a bit lets go because of brittleness or compromised brazing while in use...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

creative said:


> Good day everybody!
> 
> I was recently reading about carbide rotary burrs.
> 
> ...


I would guess that the silver solder holding the carbide chip insert might melt or soften with too much heat. 
Not something I would consider.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I would guess that the silver solder holding the carbide chip insert might melt or soften with too much heat.
> Not something I would consider.
> 
> Herb


another thing to consider is that heat is not any cutters friend...
even heat that isn't as hot as the propane torch...


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## creative (Aug 17, 2015)

Thanks Stick & Herb - I will definitely not be trying this now. Glad I asked!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@creative...

I like to see that article/recommendation...
got a link...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> @creative...
> 
> I like to see that article/recommendation...
> got a link...


I wouldn't post a link. Someone might follow this advice and get themselves hurt at worst, or destroy the tool at the least.

I don't know of anyway to sharpen a burr or rotatory cutter without specialize equipment. The best you can do is clean it. heating it IS NOT the way.


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## creative (Aug 17, 2015)

**NOTE TO ANYONE READING THIS, LISTEN TO STICK AND NEVER CLEAN TOOLS WITH FIRE - VERY DANGEROUS*
*
@Stick486 - this is where the bad info came from: https://youtu.be/1fFeJsSewjU?t=3m36s


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Ive got some of those burrs and haven't had a problem with them getting gummed up. But I only use them on dry wood, haven't tried them on green wood. Still not convinced it is the way to go.

Herb


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## Frankj3 (Oct 6, 2014)

I would NEVER buy another bit from any manufacturer who would recommend such practices.
SCARY!!!!

Good job Stick!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

creative said:


> @Stick486 - this is where the bad info came from:


I saw what the guy did and how...
and how so much can go wrong...
why risk it...

now go back and delete your post or ask a moderator to delete it...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The insert tips on large sawmill blades (52") can be purchased in carbide and the 3000 rpm drill and grinder wheel for sharpening them get the tooth so hot that the carbide turns blue. This is deadly for HSS tips but doesn't bother carbide. The silver solder used to weld the carbide onto the tips requires an oxy acetylene flame to get it hot enough to melt. Propane won't come close by itself. 

What would concern me is the heat transfer to the steel saw plate which could warp it. I've ruined one 10" blade by getting it too hot just trying to rip with it and it wasn't a rip blade. IMO it's not worth the risk. Trend blade cleaner works very well and it is cheap. You can buy a set of toothbrush shaped brushes for under $5 that has a brass and a nylon brush in the set which can be used without harming the teeth.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Scary...I wouldn't clean a crowbar that way...

I could hear the pitter-patter of little carbide pieces dropping on the floor on next use...

CMT or Trend Bit Cleaner...what a great job either one does...and you won't burn the shop down...

...glad you asked instead of trying it...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I've quite a few carbide burrs and found the OP's thread of interest. Personally I've never had one get clogged to the point of needing to go to such an extreme, BUT...and I do say this cautiously.. seems the burning off with propane is an accepted method of cleaning... I"m not about to promote the process however...

CarvingBurs
near bottom of the page

Tungsten Carbide Burrs Page 1

Dura-Grit 6 Piece Woodcarving Set - Burrs for Rotary Multitools - Rotary Multitool Accessories - Multitool, Precision & Modelling - Power Tool Accessories - Accessories | Axminster Tools & Machinery

from HolyGalahad: 
Burning
Use a small propane burner (e.g camping burner)
and apply to disc. Let sit until cool and use a brass
or bronze wire brush to remove loosened debris
and residue.
1. You will not damage the disc. Common sense
dictates that you remove the disc from the angle
grinder and place it on a non-flammable surface
prior to burning.
2. Another preferred method is to apply paraffin
to the disc first, then burn and brush clean as
described above.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

The one thing I did NOT like was when he said "You can use pretty much any type of flame" aaaaahhh, good thinking there. So my oxy-acetylene flame, which will melt steel no problem at all is fine, is it?

I dinna think so laddie!


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## Nobodi (Oct 22, 2015)

Some silver solders will have melted before the carbide even gets red


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Creative; specifically talked about Carbide burrs, then went on to query applying the same technique to other carbide toothed cutting tools.

If we assume that burrs are actually _solid Carbide_, and that the manufacturer will stand behind their tool and recommended procedure, then it may well be valid _for that specific application_.
It'd be interesting to hear from a metallurgist, and from the manufacturer that made the burrs.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

DISCLAIMER: 

I have never nor will I ever use this approach but out of curiosity I watched the video and checked the specs on that torch which came up as: Max. Flame Temperature	1,315.6°C (2,400°F).

Even without that bit of trivia I support all the arguments against using it.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> Creative; specifically talked about Carbide burrs, then went on to query applying the same technique to other carbide toothed cutting tools.
> 
> If we assume that burrs are actually _solid Carbide_, and that the manufacturer will stand behind their tool and recommended procedure, then it may well be valid _for that specific application_.
> It'd be interesting to hear from a metallurgist, and from the manufacturer that made the burrs.


Thats a good point Dan... a distinction does need to be made regarding the application of propane as a cleaning medium. Personally I have several. HSS, solid carbide and carbide coated. The HSS I would not attempt using propane if only for fear of taking the temper out of the edge. Solid carbide I most likely (and I say that with a bit of apprehension) would give it a go. The majority of my burrs are Saburrtooth Burrs, which are advertised as having a "carbide" coating. these I would hesitate on using propane if only for the lack of further data to support the claim.

Propane burns around 1950 degrees, MAPP gas around 2050 and MAPP gas w/oxygen goes up to 2870 degrees. I think it safe to say that MAPP w/oxygenis out of the question!!! I think the process used to adhere the carbide to a mating surface would dictate whether or not propane could or even should be used. 
The make up of the mating surface itself would also be a consideration.

The tech torch used in the video uses "Butane",,, as Jon mentions,, this burns considerably hotter than propane... yet another factor to be considered


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Thats a good point Dan... a distinction does need to be made regarding the application of propane as a cleaning medium. Personally I have several. HSS, solid carbide and carbide coated. The HSS I would not attempt using propane if only for fear of taking the temper out of the edge. Solid carbide I most likely (and I say that with a bit of apprehension) would give it a go. The majority of my burrs are Saburrtooth Burrs, which are advertised as having a "carbide" coating. these I would hesitate on using propane if only for the lack of further data to support the claim.
> 
> Propane burns around 1950 degrees, MAPP gas around 2050 and MAPP gas w/oxygen goes up to 2870 degrees. I think it safe to say that MAPP w/oxygenis out of the question!!! I think the process used to adhere the carbide to a mating surface would dictate whether or not propane could or even should be used.
> The make up of the mating surface itself would also be a consideration.
> ...


Good points ,Bill, I think to me burning would be a last resort before buying a new bit.
Be a good place to use WD40 ,you have nothing to loose. I use that on my hole saws and it works good.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Good points ,Bill, I think to me burning would be a last resort before buying a new bit.
> Be a good place to use WD40 ,you have nothing to loose. I use that on my hole saws and it works good.
> 
> Herb


use wax Herb then you'll get better results and not risk contamination that could sour your finish...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't know if anyone remembers that thread on cleaning Carbide(?)...
I'd switched over to Simple Green, but after a few pages of discussion here, I e-mailed the Simple Green folks and they were very clear that as far as _their _products were concerned, the only safe one to _soak_ carbide in was their Precision Green...Aircraft Cleaner formulation.
Other formulations could attack the chemistry of the Carbide. So, in short, do your own due diligence!
I still use it to wipe the blades /bits with, _but no soaking in it_.

Here's a single post from that thread...
Router Forums - View Single Post - Cleaning bits with Ethylene Glycol


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I don't know if anyone remembers that thread on cleaning Carbide(?)...
> I'd switched over to Simple Green, but after a few pages of discussion here, I e-mailed the Simple Green folks and they were very clear that as far as _their _products were concerned, the only safe one to _soak_ carbide in was their Precision Green...Aircraft Cleaner formulation.
> Other formulations could attack the chemistry of the Carbide. So, in short, do your own due diligence!
> I still use it to wipe the blades /bits with, _but no soaking in it_.
> ...


If Theresa says so, it's good enough for me.:smile::smile:

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've been using the Trend cleaner and either the brass or nylon bristled toothbrushes in a set of three I bought. The stainless one gets used for other things. It requires a little time and effort but there are no concerns and issues about something going wrong. The set is under $5 and is sold in lots of places, probably HF is one of them.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Trend/CMT blade and bit cleaners work fine for me too.
I also like that these cleaners leave a light protective/lubricating film on the bit.

Spritz, brush, wipe, occasionally puff with compressed air, no rinsing needed.... put away the bit or re-install the blade.

Use mostly old toothbrushes to scrub but do have the stiffer versions available.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

What's getting lost here is that the original info that the OP (Creative) referred to was referring specifically to Carbide BURRS, not blades or router bits.
Trying to get accumulated gunge out of the gullets and ridges of a burr is a frustrating job. 
With the info put forward by the Simple Green folks re chemical damage to the Carbide, soaking in an approved solvent, (and I use that word in it's defined chemistry sense) and bristle brushing as Charles and others suggest seems the safest routine.
Same for steel burrs. The torch route seems a bit over the top.


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