# Hand Planes so hard to find!



## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

I'd really like to pick up some vintage stanley planes. Specifically a no. 7 or 8, a 4 and 5 but there are NONE around here that I have found. Ebay prices are a little bit more than I want to pay for most of them and the others that are reasonably priced go quick. I sure don't want to pay the price of a new lie nielsen. 


How are the new contractor grade stanleys?

Where are y'all finding the vintage planes?

Mods, if this is in the wrong place, feel free to move it.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi Dustin

Can't speak about the new iteration of the Stanleys. Read a review a while ago that said they weren't too bad. I too don't want to pay the prices for the Lie Nielsen or Veritas, but I got enjoyment out of doing the refurb. A while back you could still buy parts packages from Stanley, knobs, totes, etc. - not sure if that is still available.

I have several #5, a #6, a couple of #4 and a couple of block planes. When I was into refurbing planes I would generally go to flea markets.

Not sure how long you've been doing this or how much you've researched but a good website to go to is Patrick's Blood and Gore - probably the best central location for information on Stanley's and what to look for, how to identify age, etc.

The Superior Works - Patrick's Blood & Gore: Preface

Vince


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out. 

I've been interested in woodworking for a while and have built a few things here and there but really, I'm just getting started. I have always wanted to learn more about the hobby and am now finally in a place in my life where I can seriously start pursuing it. I grew up in a DIY family and worked with my dad doing siding, roofing etc but have not done much fine woodworking until now.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Well then, you've come to the right place - there's enough info here, and experienced members willing to share, that'll keep you going for a couple of lifetimes.

Don't be afraid to ask questions and good luck with your know obsession (I mean hobby).

Vince


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

There are some decent Chinese-made planes around. Here they are sold under the Quangsheng name, and a seller in Germany has similar ones under the Juuma name. I don't know if anyone is importing them into the US. They are a cut above the modern Stanleys I have seen, though I'm not familiar with the new contractor grade ones you mentioned Dustin. However they are also more expensive than Stanley - but still much cheaper than Veritas or Lie Nielsen here.

I looked at Stanley planes at a tool show a few years ago. They had some out on a bench for you to try out, and they actually seemed not too bad. But when you looked at the ones on the shelf that you could buy, the machining was much rougher than on the "demo" models. Someone had obviously spent a long time fettling those demo planes to make them perform well.

Edit: looks like "WoodRiver" planes may be the same as the Quangshengs in the USA.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Check out the Wood River planes. I have two so far, a #4 and a 6. Wonderful tools with very high quality. Bottoms and sides are square and pretty flat. Irons are excellent and not too much play in the adjuster. No matter what plane you buy, you're going to have to do a tuneup, make sure the bottom and the underside of the iron are flat. I am very happy with them and if you check out the reviews, you'll find they come well recommended. If you get one that is out of whack too far, you could probably return them or get a replacement. The company is clearly working to earn and keep a strong reputation. 

I do have a Stanley Sweetheart block plane that required almost no tuning other than a final blade sharpening and flattening. But I've heard they are a little spotty on quality, so make sure if you buy one that you check it out thoroughly before you tune it so if its way off or too rough to suit you, you can exchange it. I think Stanley is putting out the Sweetheart versions to try to restore its tarnished reputation. The company that bought them sure did a number on what was once a great brand.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom
There was a thread a couple of days ago talking about Rob Cosman - I'm sure he's involved with the Woodriver planes somehow. Not sure if he designed them or what that involvement was but if he's involved, they must be decent.


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks for the info y'all. I just might have to order a woodriver #5. 


I picked up a cheap schefield hand plane at the local hardware store a few weeks back, sharpened the blade and started playing with it. There's something to be said for seeing those tight curls come off. This has made me reconsider the search for a powered jointer and look for some hand planes to do the same function.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Be certain to purchase the V3 versions of the Woodriver planes. Early production models were plagued by quality control issues. However WR listened, made corrections and now offer an exceptional lineup. A fine plane at a fair price point. They also offer package deals on their planes. Block planes are an acquired taste. I'd avoid the Stanly handplanes. Stanley blocks sent to shabby.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Be certain to purchase the V3 versions of the Woodriver planes. Early production models were plagued by quality control issues. *However WR listened, made corrections and now offer an exceptional lineup.* A fine plane at a fair price point. They also offer package deals on their planes. Block planes are an acquired taste. I'd avoid the Stanly handplanes. Stanley blocks sent to shabby.


agreed...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

hunterguy86 said:


> Thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out.
> 
> I've been interested in woodworking for a while and have built a few things here and there but really, I'm just getting started. I have always wanted to learn more about the hobby and am now finally in a place in my life where I can seriously start pursuing it. I grew up in a DIY family and worked with my dad doing siding, roofing etc but have not done much fine woodworking until now.


Since you're new at this, I though I'd share the following:

This has been posted before so those who have read it already may wish to skip it.

These are the 17+ things that really helped me get going with woodworking. Hope it helps you as much as they did me.

1) If you are using Firefox browser, get a free add on YouTube download helper app. Search for videos on all aspects of woodworking that interest you and collect them. I watch a video on the topic of whatever project, or phase of a project, on which I'm currently working. VERY helpful to see it done a few times before you try it yourself. 

I use a YouTube downloader that’s free using the tools menu/add ons. It puts a download button under the video on YouTube. Click the button, name the file (I always label it according to the tool or job it works on. For example, anything to do with routing, I label as "Router", which clusters all the similar videos together in Windows Explorer. All my videos go into a single folder. I sometimes watch woodworking video while on planes, which triggers some interesting conversations.

2) There are hundreds of used books on woodworking on Amazon. Order some on basic tools and woodworking. You'll need to learn to tune up saws and other tools, and books are how I learned to do these things. It wasn't until I tuned up my saws that good results began to happen. My saws cut exactly 90 and 45, or any angle I need now. Two books I really love are Bill Hylton’s “Woodworking with the Router,” and “The Joint Book” by Terrie Noll. The Noll Book is a really concise and heavily illustrated reference with great hints for making every variety of joints. There are lots of good table saw guides.

3) Make some first projects with MDF before using more expensive wood. Make the same project several times with improved skill, material and workmanship each time. Great learning method.

4) Consider making cabinets or stands for each of your power tools as first projects. My first cabinet was of MDF and my sander and all my sanding gear still sit on and in it. I can't tell you how much confidence I got from building space efficient shop stands and now, all the tools in my smallish shop are on casters and easily moved around for use and cleanup. Put doors on every cabinet to reduce wandering dust. BTW, if you add casters, use two non swivels on the back and two locking casters on the front--make sure the lock secures both the wheel and the swivel so your carts don't skip around in use. My shop made stands also take up far less floor space than the spread-legged ones that came with the tools, which makes it far easier to move tools around in a compact shop--which is necessary to clean out the insidious sawdust.

5) Many of the woodworking supply stores in the US (and I imagine overseas) have demos on weekends. Attend and get to know the people you meet there. They can turn you on to sources of wood and you can get some nice help and begin a friendship or two. Don’t forget to talk with the employees as well. At our local Rockler, several of the employees are serious and experienced woodworkers and always eager to help. I’ve also found some of the big box stores employ a few very experienced wood workers, carpenters, electricians and plumbers. You just have to start a brief conversation, if they seem knowledgeable, ask them about what they did before they worked at the store.

6) Among your first purchases should be some form of dust control. Many woods are proven carcinogens and can quickly damage your lungs. Dust collection information is on this site. I have a 4-inch system installed to collect sawdust, but I also have and recommend a dust mask with a small fan that pulls in pressurized air that not only keeps dust out, but also keeps my glasses from fogging. Got mine at Rockler and keep a couple of sets of rechargable AA batteries ready to use. For cutting just a piece or two, I keep surgical style disposable masks handy. I also built a box with 20x20 filter inside and a fan that pulls air through to remove fine airborne dust over time. You can even tape a filter to the back of a fan in a pinch. Don't take your mask off right after cutting or cleaning up because there is always dust floating around for awhile. If you start coughing, it means you need to pay very close attention to dust control and wearing a mask. It takes months to recover from a bout of working unprotected with MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) without a mask. 

7) Take your sweet time with projects, there's no rush and it is easy to have a project nearly complete, then make a careless, quick cut or other error that ruins all your good work. In most cases, it is best to fit pieces by putting them in place and marking rather than just measuring and cutting. Cut a bit over and shave it down (or use a good block plane) for an exact fit. A good block plane, nice and sharp, is a basic tool you'll use more often than you think.

8) Buy the very best table saw you can manage. It will quickly become the most used tool in your shop. A little debt could move you up a notch and help you produce better results and cut thicker wood. Get the best tools you can afford. Read the reviews and ask questions on the forum before you choose. To me, it is worth it to use credit if necessary to move up the quality scale. 

There are models called hybrid saws that have the mechanical works attached to the cabinet rather than the top, which is good. I recently replaced my old contractor saw with a Laguna Fusion saw. My shop is not wired for 220, so I was happy with the 110volt, 1 3/4 hp motor. Many forum members have been very happy with less expensive models, Grizzly for example, but I prefer the Laguna for its amazingly flat table and extensions and its fit and finish (and reasonable price). Learn to set up and tune up your saws and tools (books and videos show you how) because you can’t make anything great if your tools are even slightly off.

The best safety device is paying very close attention to what you’re doing with a saw, but a close second is a MicroJig Gripper, which lets you control wood on the saw while keeping your fingers safely away from the blade. There is a fancy and a simpler model, either of which is good.

9) If you can, get an electrician to add a 220 outlet or two to your shop. If you set up in the garage, you may be able to use the electrical outlet for the dryer. There are many tools that require 220 volts to work best, and many used 220 v tools are available at good prices--if you feel comfortable buying used. Another tool source is to visit estate sales. Every once in awhile, you find tools no one else in the family desires or knows the value of, so you can get them cheap.

If you don't have a router yet, I have come to like the Triton TRA001, which is perfect for table use, particularly since you can adjust height quite precisely from the above the table with its built in lift. That feature really saves my knees. However, it is just too heavy for this old guy to control freehand. I really like the Bosch 1617 EVSPK for hand held use. There is a newer model that has a light and switch on the handle that costs more. Both come in a kit with fixed and plunge base. It has many accessories available that are very well made. Others like different brands, but Mike recently checked in on the topic and compared PorterCable and I thought the Bosch came out a bit ahead. I prefer the raising and lowering mechanism on the Bosch with its precise micro adjustment knob. The Bosch fixed base can be used as a lift in a table. The books on routers and other topics are really useful for understanding some of the arcane woodworking terms associated with this must have tool..

10) When it comes to router bits, try to stick to the half inch shafts with carbide cutting tips. These are astonishingly sharp. Bosch and Freud are easily available at HD and Lowes, but there are lots of other excellent brands including the well liked Whiteside and Sommerfield bits. Be careful of those ultra sharp tips, which are fragile. I'd suggest storing them in one of those foam lined cases you can get pretty cheap from Harbor Freight, loosely packed so they don't click together. A few of the cheap bits don’t have carbide tips. Spiral bits are sometimes used to cut grooves. Carbide spiral bits are both expensive and fragile and it takes very little abuse to ruin them. Many use high speed steel bits for that purpose.

I buy bits as I need them and don't much care for the kits. However, someone recently suggested getting a kit to start out with, then gradually replacing only the bits you actually use with top grade bits. This makes some sense to me, but stick to the half inch shafts if you can manage it--most kits I’ve seen have 1/4 inch shafts. I would avoid huge sets with odd bits you are unlikely ever to use. A few standard bits most of us have are the round over bits. You can get them in different sizes, but mostly you’re likely to use the quarter, half and ¾ sizes. Another bit that is very useful for cabinetry is the half inch rabbiting bit with a bearing. Some come with a changable bearing that allows you to change the size of the rabbit. Doing fancier stuff makes those cash register numbers spin because those door bit sets are pricey! 

One more thing about using bits, don’t try to take off too much wood in one pass. Make several passes taking a little more wood with each pass. Pay attention to the grain of the wood (that is covered in most books on routing) with a final pass just shaving and making for a very smooth finish. My personal rule is to cut no more than 1/8 th of an inch per pass. The larger the bit, the slower you should set the speed control. 

11) The most useful item I own for my saws is a Wixey digital angle gauge, which allows me to set up all my saws to exact angles (eg: 90 degrees to the table). It wasn't until I started being meticulous about this that my projects started working out right. These are about $30 on Amazon.

I have a Bosch 10 inch compound sliding miter saw that I also love, but use it mainly for cross cutting long pieces, but its ability to cut at precise angles is wonderful. 

12) Pocket Hole jig and construction. Although there are many ways to make cabinets and face frames, I have found that pocket hole screws have really made making them easier. Just remember, coarse threads for soft woods, fine thread for hard woods, and I find the square head easier to drive correctly than the Phillips type. My jig is mounted on a chunk of plywood that I can clamp down. The thing makes a lot of sawdust so dust collection is a good idea. I also find that with careful, exact 90 degree end cuts to the wood, the pocket hole approach produces absolutely square cabinets and face frames. You’ll need a couple of face clamps and a Kreg right angle clamp if you use pocket hole joinery. There are many helpful videos on this jig.

13) Make a table saw sled (lots of YouTube videos on how to) for perfect 90 degree cuts on your table saw. I had a little more money than time, so I bought the sled Rockler makes that has a swinging fence and a very precise angle scale. I love that thing and set up a special shelf right next to my table saw to store it and keep it flat. Cross cuts on the sled are wonderfully exact and it prevents most tear out, the ragged or splintered area at the end of a cut. The sled is also a much safer way to cut short pieces as well. You set the sled to a precise 90 or 45 angle using a drafting square. 

Most saws come with a miter gauge, but I prefer one of the precision gauges. I have an Osborne gauge I really like, but many here like Incra’s gauge. Precision is important with gauges.

You will read a LOT about jigs here and in your books and videos. Jigs, accurate T squares, a good straightedge are all incredibly useful for producing good work. The more I venture into really good hard wood construction, the more I appreciate how jigs produce accurate results without wasting expensive wood through mis-cuts.

14) I had a lot of problems with tear out at first, but most of that stopped when I started using a sacrificial backup block to push the last bit of a piece through the router. I often use square pieces of MDF (medium density fiberboard) because it is cheap and stays flat. When it gets torn up, I just cut off a chunk and use what’s left. Really helps! You can do the same with any piece by putting a backer board behind where the cut goes--you cut through the piece first, the backer last. You may also want to use feather boards to hold boards in correct alignment to the fence and blade or bit.

Zero Clearance Inserts for the table saw: On the table saw, buy or make blank inserts to make zero clearance inserts (see YouTube for how to do it), this really helps make great, tear-out free cuts. I also found that I wanted to push that last quarter inch through the bit too fast, now I feed at a steady pace all through the cut. 

15) Clamps: The joke is you can never have too many clamps. The ones I use most are about $3 each at Harbor Freight, about 9 inch F clamps (they look like an F). I have 18 of them at a couple of bucks each. The same source has longer versions up to 24 inches and I keep 4 to 6 of the 18 and 24 inch models. I have four sets of two of 24 to 60 inch (Jet) parallel clamps for making really square cabinets and other items where holding things square for glue up is important. The better the quality of bar clamps, the thicker and stronger the bar will be. I’ve all but given up on plastic clamps, but have a few that look like scissors for lightly holding things together or down. Depending on what you’re making, a few wooden hand screw clamps could be useful, including holding small parts for safer routing. I recently added a couple of special steel C clamps that have a 12 inch open throat. Very handy item! 

16) Hand planes and hand tools: Learning to use these is something of an art, as is proper sharpening and setting of their blades. There are lots of woodworkers who really love working with hand tools, most will suggest you buy used and clean and tune them up--which is actually quite fun. Chisels are important particularly if you are making furniture. Sharpening chisels is a basic skill involving many ultra fine grits of sandpaper, ultra flat surfaces, maybe diamond grit sharpening stones—arcane stuff, but anything less than a razor sharp chisel is pretty useless. Don’t scrimp on chisels, cheap ones get dull fast. Look up sharpening methods on YouTube, it takes patience but not much money to work sharp. I recently bought a diamond sharpening device with diamond dust imbedded in a nickel steel plate. It has small cut out ovals so the metal grit doesn't clog the diamond surface. Use these sparingly and use one of the specialty diamond sharpening lubricants with it. I use this for quick sharpening touch ups, just 4-5 strokes will do. It’s a little easier to use than the sand paper method, which I save for major sharpening tasks.

17) If you have a dedicated shop space, take the time and trouble to insulate it. You will enjoy working in it much more if you're not roasting or freezing. I recently installed a middle sized window AC unit through a shop shed wall for relief from our desert summer and it is now even more of a pleasure to be out there. Insulation also holds in heat during winter. A couple of heaters bring the temp up, but just one keeps it comfortable after that. Cold fingers are clumsy, not good around spinning blades!

Finally, Stick suggests that you use the Forum’s archives when you have questions. There is a wealth of answers to any questions you might have. He also cautions about using one word search terms, which can return massive amounts of information. Here’s the link: https://archive.org/

Woodworking is not necessarily a cheap hobby. Wood can be costly, so are decent tools, And there's hardware, stuff for jigs, dust collection and on and on as you get going. My good wood supplier is 60 miles away, so I often work in decent local pine and plywood with as many layers as I can find. I found some decent Maple faced plywood at HD. Before long you will hear how superior Baltic Birch is to the best of HD, but you have to ferret out a decent source. Chinese made birch ply is generally no match for the real stuff, which, when you cut it shows no voids inside. 

This has run pretty long, but I think the information is helpful for someone new to the hobby. The suggestions represent a LOT of trial and error. And yes, you can spend a lot getting set up.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Be certain to purchase the V3 versions of the Woodriver planes. Early production models were plagued by quality control issues. However WR listened, made corrections and now offer an exceptional lineup. A fine plane at a fair price point. They also offer package deals on their planes. Block planes are an acquired taste. I'd avoid the Stanly handplanes. Stanley blocks sent to shabby.


While researching Wood River planes, I discovered that they let their steel age for 6 months so any stresses will either show up or resolve themselves before machining begins. I was amazed how good they are. My #4 sole was amazingly flat out of the box, and even the blade needed very little work.

The Stanley Sweetheart block plane I got was very good out of the box and didn't need much tuning. I think the problem with cheap planes is that their accuracy and quality are hit and miss. Glad I got a good one. That's why I suggest buying one from a store that will replace it if you get a bad one. 

It is kind of fun tuning up a plane. I had an odd accident while flattening the back of the iron; put the sandpaper on the table saw table's edge and it hung over slightly. I slid my hand against it and made a bloody slice in one of my fingers. Those darn blood thinners strike again.


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Good info there! Thanks for sharing


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've gotten a few off ebay, inherited one, and gotten one at a flea market type used store. Estate sales and garage sales are two sources for planes. Lots have been inherited and the heirs either aren't interested in using them or don't know how. You have to get there early, others are also looking for them.

Planes fell out of favor for many years and I think the reason is that few people knew how to set them up or sharpen them properly. They are starting to make a comeback and people are learning the skills needed again. A few new tools to help sharpen are also making a difference like diamond stones and Lee Valley's honing jig.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

hunterguy86 said:


> I'd really like to pick up some vintage stanley planes. Specifically a no. 7 or 8, a 4 and 5 but there are NONE around here that I have found. Ebay prices are a little bit more than I want to pay for most of them and the others that are reasonably priced go quick. I sure don't want to pay the price of a new lie nielsen.
> 
> 
> How are the new contractor grade stanleys?
> ...


Dustin, used planes are all around. You just have to be patient and keep looking. 

I refurbish hand planes, mostly Stanley's, but others, also. Check the flea markets and yard sales in your area. Don't be afraid to look in junk stores and even antique stores. Don't be afraid to haggle the price based on condition(s). Most people think they are worth more money then they are. Use the websites to get a good idea of what they are really worth (exclude eBay) they will be inflated prices. Look to sites like this to get price comparisons

JON ZIMMERS ANTIQUE TOOLS

Here are some other links;

How To Use A Hand Plane - Video

Hand Planes | Startwoodworking.com

- Handplane Central

4-6's will be easy to find, 7-9 will be tougher and probably expensive. Don't bypass wooden bodied planes. I picked up a 24" Keen Kutter for $20 at a flea market...it is one of my best planes to use. All I had t do was flatten the sole and sharpen the plane iron. 

Do not turn down a plane that is in good shape. I have several good Non-Stanley planes that work just fine. My only suggestion is that you stay away from Chinese and other knock off type units.

If you really want a Stanley, PM me and I may be able to supply you with a decent one for a reasonable price. However, remember, that shipping can get pricey.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> Tom
> There was a thread a couple of days ago talking about Rob Cosman - I'm sure he's involved with the Woodriver planes somehow. Not sure if he designed them or what that involvement was but if he's involved, they must be decent.


Your right ,Vince, Rob was involved in refining the Woodriver plane design to make them better. From everyone who has one I have heard very good things. They seem to be a "Best Buy" now adays.

Herb


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

The use of hand-tools has seen a huge resurgence over the past few years. I went to the Handworks show back in May, and was amazed at how many people attended, and the show is 100% dedicated to hand tools!

As a result in the popularity of handtools, the bargains on ebay are bit more rare. However, that is not to say they aren't there. Antique stores, garage/estate sales, and flee markets are all good places to find deals for hand planes.

For new hand planes, I have stuck with both Lee Valley/Veritas and Lie-Nielsen. I have looked at the Wood River planes, but haven't purchased them over what I have been getting.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DesertRatTom said:


> While researching Wood River planes, I discovered that they let their steel age for 6 months so any stresses will either show up or resolve themselves before machining begins. I was amazed how good they are. My #4 sole was amazingly flat out of the box, and even the blade needed very little work.
> 
> The Stanley Sweetheart block plane I got was very good out of the box and didn't need much tuning. I think the problem with cheap planes is that their accuracy and quality are hit and miss. Glad I got a good one. That's why I suggest buying one from a store that will replace it if you get a bad one.
> 
> It is kind of fun tuning up a plane. I had an odd accident while flattening the back of the iron; put the sandpaper on the table saw table's edge and it hung over slightly. I slid my hand against it and made a bloody slice in one of my fingers. Those darn blood thinners strike again.


The Wood River lineup is actually a very good one now. The early problems were numerous and almost fatal. Metallurgy and machining being the two big problems they encountered. It was rumored that they wanted to roll out their line before they had all their ducks in a row so-to-speak. I personally think that they released to market too soon in order to cash in on the "new found" popularity of hard tools. Regardless of their reasoning, currently for the money, they are hard to beat!! A fine plane to be sure. If I were not so invested in Veritas planes, I'd go with WR without reservation. All indications are that as they expand their assortment the quality is falling in line as well. 

I have one of the redesigned Stanley #4's. And really don't care for it at all. Heavy, bulky, uncomfortable tote.... For some reason, when using this plane, I have a tendency to nose dive the front of the plane. The design of both front corners is such that the damn thing will leave one heck of a gouge in the wood.....Iron does take a nice edge and holds it well enough and the Norris style adjuster works fine...if its a little "heft" you like is a block plane, the new Stanleys are very nice...

I absolutely enjoy tuning my planes. Once I figured out what works best for me it quickly went from a chore to a pleasure. Folks who are having trouble with their planes can usually be identified in one of two categories. First being they don't know what they are doing, and thats not intended to be an insult..or secondly, the plane itself is at fault. Usually in need of a proper tuneup. 

For those looking for garage sale finds...look for type 11's or Bedrocks. Bedrocks being my favorite. Restoring em can get to be expensive and some parts are extremely hard to find...

If anyone every comes across a Minty Stanley #1...drop me a note  ka-ching ka-ching...:no:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> If anyone every comes across a Minty Stanley #1...drop me a note  ka-ching ka-ching...:no:


Ahhhhh! The "Holy Grail".


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Gee, this string got me all worked up about planes. Something about the way the wood looks after planing, and that subtle SSSSSSHHHkk sound a plane with a good, sharp blade makes. Keep the shavings for fire starting.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> Gee, this string got me all worked up about planes. Something about the way the wood looks after planing, and that subtle SSSSSSHHHkk sound a plane with a good, sharp blade makes. Keep the shavings for fire starting.


For some reason I just find them fun to use and they are much easier on my ears than the powered tools I have. Sometimes when you have something that needs just a slight taper to fit, or has a few high spots, or just needs a few strokes to get the fit right the hand plane is the best tool for the job. Then you get someone like Neville who insists that you can`t get a decent fitting miter joint with out a shooting board and hand plane. His joints are very good so who am I to argue with him.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Gee, this string got me all worked up about planes. Something about the way the wood looks after planing, and that subtle SSSSSSHHHkk sound a plane with a good, sharp blade makes. Keep the shavings for fire starting.


Tried using the shavings for fire starters. They are so thin that they generally flash too quickly.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@Cherryville Chuck
Nothing like running a hand plane and seeing that curly shaving - sometimes it's just therapeutic. I've made a small table (dovetail drawer, tapered legs and m/t joints) without plugging anything in or turning on a power tool.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Gee, this string got me all worked up about planes. Something about the way the wood looks after planing, and that subtle SSSSSSHHHkk sound a plane with a good, sharp blade makes. Keep the shavings for fire starting.


one you contract planeitis you are doomed...
all you can do is surrender...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> one you contract planeitis you are doomed...
> all you can do is surrender...


and invest!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> and invest!


got lotto winnings???


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Get a 5 1/2 you won't regret the wider plane. I have several WR planes and they are excellant


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I take it from the response to my Gee post that I am not alone in my feelings about hand planing. I just recently bought a shoulder plane that needs some work, but which I think will be great for fitting rabbits. And I like my Stanley Sweetheart block plane a LOT! I think I'd like to get a 4 1/2 (wide iron) one of these days and maybe even a #7. Don't know much about low angle planes, so maybe someone can tell be about them. For a small low angle plane I know it really does a nice job across the end grain.

Just finished a shooting board. Put it together as precisely as I could, but we will see since picture frames have risen quickly on my honey do list. 

We finally paid off all tax bills today, so new stuff is on hold for awhile.


----------



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@DesertRatTom

Nope - you're not alone.
I've got a #5 with 3 pat #s - type 11 (1910-1918) - this one was in rough shape with a chip out of the tote but it only cost me $5.
2 other #5 - type 16 (1933-41) and a type 19 (1948-61) - I put in a Hock iron in the newer one.
#6 - type 20 (1962-67) in the midst of a refurb - that's one heavy sucker - $30
two #4 - type 15 (1931-32) one of them came with the original box with the label showing Stanley Tool Works of Canada, Hamilton, Ontario (picked that up from a casual acquaintance for $25.
#9 1/2 - bevel up with adjustable mouth - I like this for end grain
#110

Had a line on a nice #7 for cheap a while ago, and left the guy a message but by the time he got back to me, it was sold.

Someone in this thread said they were looking for a #1 - can't remember who.

My small collection doesn't come anywhere near this guy:
there's a guy up the road in Stoney Creek, Ontario that has over 200 planes, among other old tools - he doesn't list a #1 so they must be rate - this is one of his photos from his offering.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The reason you can't find them so easily these days is that they are all in collections like the one in the picture. Didn't someone recently post a picture of a collector with walls full of planes? Greedy or compulsive? Maybe we could get Bernie Sanders to pipe up on this matter.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom

This guy actually advertises quite a few planes, and other tools, vises, etc. for sale regularly.

I should have posted a link to the website. BTW, I'm not affiliated with him in any way, shape or form, "plane" and simple

http://Ontarioantiquetools.com


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

but you'd give yur sole to be???


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Sell your soul? I'm not that far gone...yet.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

not soul.. sole...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

A flat sole is a good thing if you have your soul set on planning for planing.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> A flat sole is a good thing if you have your soul set on planning for planing.


is getting froggy allowed??


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

We like to talk alot about the Lee Valley's and Lie Nielsen of the world, Its nice to hear the Stanley's get an well deserved honorable mention. problem is so many other good planes and mfgs often go unmentioned. As often as not, you got to open up the wallet a bit more to acquire em or so you might think. Clifton and Bridge City are good examples on one end of the scale, Record and home branded planes of the other. Stanley made a huge number of planes for other people that put their brand on it. Identical to their Stanley cousins yet often glossed over as second stringers.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> We like to talk alot about the Lee Valley's and Lie Nielsen of the world, Its nice to hear the Stanley's get an well deserved honorable mention. problem is so many other good planes and mfgs often go unmentioned. As often as not, you got to open up the wallet a bit more to acquire em or so you might think. Clifton and Bridge City are good examples on one end of the scale, Record and home branded planes of the other. Stanley made a huge number of planes for other people that put their brand on it. Identical to their Stanley cousins yet often glossed over as second stringers.


the new Stanley Sweethearts suck...
especially their shoulder plane..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> the new Stanley Sweethearts suck...
> especially their shoulder plane..


I absolutely agree with ya on the new Sweetheart line, at least the bench planes. The blocks are IMHO not too shabby. A bit bulky for my liking but thats just a matter of personal taste. I've really come to like smallish block planes. My favorite go to plane is by far the little apron plane that LV puts out. Just a gem of a plane. 

Can't comment on their shoulder planes, never used or held one but I wouldn't be surprised. Wood River shoulders have caught my eye of late. Looking like the ole Records...LV makes some sharp ones as well. I have several Japanese style wooden shoulders that are so/so quality at best, (aka cheapo's) BUT I have used quality Japanese shoulders and they were a pleasure to use.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Just as a side note: 

for those guys who are looking to buy/sell when it comes to hand planes WoodNet Forums has a classified section that 
regularly offers a very fine selection. From minty's to need some work....prices are more often than not very fair....
there is also a guy over there that does grinding work on the soles and sides of planes....very professional, very fair pricing
and the results speak for themselves.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I absolutely agree with ya on the new Sweetheart line, at least the bench planes. The blocks are IMHO not too shabby. A bit bulky for my liking but thats just a matter of personal taste. I've really come to like smallish block planes. My favorite go to plane is by far the little apron plane that LV puts out. Just a gem of a plane.
> 
> Can't comment on their shoulder planes, never used or held one but I wouldn't be surprised. Wood River shoulders have caught my eye of late. Looking like the ole Records...LV makes some sharp ones as well. I have several Japanese style wooden shoulders that are so/so quality at best, (aka cheapo's) BUT I have used quality Japanese shoulders and they were a pleasure to use.


I have some wooden planes that My father and grandfather made...
all special purpose... fixed T&G, concave and convex soles left over from wagon making days of different widths and radii...
what in the world do you nee a 2'' R bullnose plane for today...
same for a 2'' R roundover...
rip double chamfers and finish w/ the plane... 
it was a wagon tongue for crying out loud....a spoke shave would have been just fine..
the ones I pushed till Hades froze over went to the wood pile decades ago...
I'll never make a wheel spoke or hub by hand again... ever...
for some reason my shoulders, shoulder blades, upper spine and arms just started to ache...

*
the Stanley 92 shoulder...*
what I and others have had to say...

It's very painful to the heel of your hand to use....
blade is a PITA to adjust by .001"...
Casting is poorly cast/machined...
blade is wider than the body by way too much....
The slotted adjustment screws are chintzy...
The iron came poorly ground and dull...
Needs resharpening often.... very often...
I honestly believe that the iron isn't F2 steel or even close.
The iron takes some/lot of fiddling to get in and out...
Sides parallel to each other, but not at a right angles to base. 
Sole cupped.
Mouth creeps during use.
QC sucks..........
this plane has pissed me off....

REVIEWS:

Ya made me go dig up some reviews.... (not at the sellers sites either)
ya'd thunk I wrote them....
the older 92's got good reviews.. the newest, not so good, some of them weren't as kind as I was...
and I honestly believe that the iron isn't A2 steel or even close... more like F2...
the sole isn't square to the sides... and is cupped...
*
Review: UK-Stanley No 92 Not Worth The Money Saved - by HorizontalMike @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
*
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/stanley-sweetheart-92-shoulder-plane-first-impressions-t40896.htm...
*
Sides parallel to each other, but not at a right angles to base. Off by nominally 1/3 degree. That can be "tuned" out with a lot of effort when lapping the base/sole.

Big problem, the blade was narrower than body/sole. Blade should be about 0.002" per side (0.004" total) wider than sole/body. Body was nominally 0.753". Blade was less than 0.749" wide. That is at least 0.008" shy of a rebate plane that has any chance of working. One can tune a plane (or tuna fish), but adding width to a blade is not in that category. Nor is lapping the body/sole down to below blade width--at least for a woodworker without a machine shop.
*
This review is from: Stanley 12-140 No.92 Shoulder and Chisel Plane (Tools & Home Improvement)
I went to the local Woodcraft looking for a rabbit plane and this was the best solution. The overall finish is good no machine marks blade square to the body so i bought it. Once i started using it the problem list grew fast. The lever cap is machined too lose and doesn't stay square to the body. You can not adjust the mouth opening for a light shaving. The other problem is that when you push the plane it opens the mouth. I was using it on a hardwood, but it still it should keep a tight mouth. The chisel part of the plane is just as bad. I am going to try to return. Unfortunately Stanley put the SW stamp on it and what once was a great trade mark in a era of great tools Stanley ruined it.
*
I own the smoothing and jack planes that are part of this new series of Sweetheart planes from stanley. Both the smoothing and jack planes were impressive right out of the box. They both required some work, honing of the blades and smoothing out the sole. They are not as 'refined' as my Lie Nielsen planes but then 'you get what you pay for'.
So when this shoulder plane became available I ordered it. On first impression it is a nice looking plane. But when picked up it was uncomfortable to hold (a bit of a problem for a 'hand' tool) This was due to the sharp edges all around the top and sides. The blade had some serious machining marks and the A2 steel took a LONG time to get those marks out and hone. It did not help that the back side of the blade was not flat. The sole was also not flat and took a REAL LONG time to flatten. The sharp top edges of the planes body had to be carefully relieved taking care not to scratch the front sides and back in the process.
The 92's new design does make it easier than the old model to set and adjust the blade. The heftier body and blade allows it cut very nicely.
For the money I think I would have preferred to pay extra for a Lie Nielsen or Veritas shoulder plane.
I was disappointed that this shoulder plane did not match the quality of its sibling smoother and jack planes.
*
The Stanley Sweetheart No. 92 shoulder plane feels reasonably good in the hand and has good length and heft, but out of the box it is far from usable, or at least that was the case with mine. The instruction sheet claims the iron is honed and ready for use out of the box, but that is seldom the case and was no different here. That was easily remedied by my WorkSharp grinder, however. The sole had a slight cupping just behind the mouth, but this also was fairly easy to flatten out. The big problem for me has been the plane's frog, which is cast as part of the body, not a separate adjustable piece. Removing the iron revealed that the frog was very poorly ground and skewed badly to the right, which explained why the plane would cut on the right side, but no amount of adjusting gave me any shavings off the left side. The body shape makes it impossible to simply grind the frog flat, so instead it took a considerable amount of time with a flat file to get things half way usable. Having just used the plane trimming several cherry tenons, I know I still have some work to do to get things where they ought to be. I know many would consider this a "cheap" plane, but for $80, I hoped for better workmanship. I would not recommend it unless you are prepared to spend a couple hours getting it in shape.
*
This plane was pretty much as others have stated. Looked nice out of the box, edges sharp. The body was .750 wide, blade was .748. The sides were parallel and 90 degrees to the sole. The sole was flat. The back side of the blade was easy to hone flat. As another has said the real problem was the frog. It was machined off. The blade cut a shaving about 1/4'' wide on the right side only. After setting it up and checking it with an indicator it was off .007 across the frog side to side. After setting it up on a surface grinder and grinding it to where it should have been out of the box, it works great. If you don't have access to a surface grinder there would be a lot of time involved trying to get it right. Should not be this way, hopefully quality control will take note.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Spoke shaves are another animal to have...not unlike a hand plane a joy to use...not unlike a hand plane, once you get into a "groove" they are a blast....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I like them..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

actually enjoy using my little 4" Japanese spoke shave more than my LV's...even though this is one thing I have to really work at putting an edge on..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks Stick for the reviews. Guess I lucked out on the Stanley block plane I bought. I will likely pop for the Wood River rabbit plane when the time comes.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Spoke shaves are another animal to have...not unlike a hand plane a joy to use...not unlike a hand plane, once you get into a "groove" they are a blast....


Agreed. I got an interesting one off ebay that has a concave blade beside a straight one. I had never seen one like it before. It's like having 2 spoke shaves in one.


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Spoke shaves are on my list as well. 

I just purchased a set of card scrapers from rockler. Love those things. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DesertRatTom said:


> Don't know much about low angle planes, so maybe someone can tell be about them. For a small low angle plane I know it really does a nice job across the end grain.
> 
> Just finished a shooting board.


Low angle's are great for just what you mentioned, end grain. Excellent choice for shooting board use. A match made in heaven. When the time comes, take a look at the LeeValley line. Veritas® Low-Angle Smooth Plane. With 4 different irons available, pretty much tackle anything you come across. 

Veritas® Low-Angle Smooth Plane - Lee Valley Tools


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

What is this "shooting board" y'all keep mentioning?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

hunterguy86 said:


> What is this "shooting board" y'all keep mentioning?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


a much better "explanation" than I could write up: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_board

youtube video of one in use: 






Mine; a bit over the top, but quite versatile none the less: 

http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/27852-bench-hook-shooting-board.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

shooting board...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Low angle's are great for just what you mentioned, end grain. Excellent choice for shooting board use. A match made in heaven. When the time comes, take a look at the LeeValley line. Veritas® Low-Angle Smooth Plane. With 4 different irons available, pretty much tackle anything you come across.
> 
> Veritas® Low-Angle Smooth Plane - Lee Valley Tools


Getting into picture frames and the low angle looks just the ticket. thanks for the feedback. I have a shooting board and was going to use my #4 or the block plane, but the block plane is not that great for end grain.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DesertRatTom said:


> Getting into picture frames and the low angle looks just the ticket. thanks for the feedback. I have a shooting board and was going to use my #4 or the block plane, but the block plane is not that great for end grain.


In a pinch, a block that has one helluva edge on it can do you well enough, but the harder the wood, the more problems. Mass is your friend in a shooter almost as much as the iron angle and makeup. Position of the tote (handle) is another that can make a big difference. By the time you get into all of that, you're looking at a dedicate shooting plane. A bit of an investment to say the least. On smallish pieces/softer woods I like the small LV Low angle, move into bigger, harder stuff then I use a LV low angle Jack...basically a #5. On the really hardwoods (exotics) I pull out a LV #7 for the mass of the plane alone....I don't find that one is so much better than another in terms of the cut they make. its more a matter of ease of use over an extended period of time.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Getting into picture frames and the low angle looks just the ticket. thanks for the feedback. I have a shooting board and was going to use my #4 or the block plane, but the block plane is not that great for end grain.


for really difficult woods and end grains look to a bevel up smoother or joiner....

over all I think an LA Jack fits the bill for almost all of any any shooting board applications...
now if you had a skew LA Jack you'd rule..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> for really difficult woods and end grains look to a bevel up smoother or joiner....
> 
> over all I think an LA Jack fits the bill for almost all of any any shooting board applications...
> now if you had a skew LA Jack you'd rule..


don't skew the jack, skew the shooting board


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> don't skew the jack, skew the shooting board


go for way more control, accuracy, simplicity, ease and precision...
a skew plane the size of at least a smoother or a joiner plane...
a skew block will work but...
a skew rabbetter may work also but ....
other than wooden models there must be an iron bodied one out there...

Veritas Tools - Block Planes - Skew Block Plane


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> go for way more control, accuracy, simplicity, ease and precision...
> a skew plane the size of at least a smoother or a joiner plane...
> a skew block will work but...
> a skew rabbetter may work also but ....
> ...



agreed.....

this is why the V2 of my shooting board will have an inclined ramp that the plane will sit on. Effectively creating a skewed angle. Several years ago this was the subject of a rather intense and well thought out thread over at another forum. There was little if any argument about the advantage of a skewed approach to the material. So it became a debate about whether or not inclining the shooting boards plane platform relative to the work piece created the same mechanical advantage.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> agreed.....
> 
> this is why the V2 of my shooting board will have an inclined ramp that the plane will sit on. Effectively creating a skewed angle. Several years ago this was the subject of a rather intense and well thought out thread over at another forum. There was little if any argument about the advantage of a skewed approach to the material. So it became a debate about whether or not inclining the shooting boards plane platform relative to the work piece created the same mechanical advantage.


I'd like to read that thread...

so where do we find a skew jack plane???


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> I'd like to read that thread...
> 
> so where do we find a skew jack plane???


Woodnet...

skewed jack? don't know.. these are about as close as you can get
in an American plane as far as I know.,,,,Stanley 51 and the LV and LN versions. Not that you would not be familiar with them,,,but others might find them of interest...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> agreed.....
> 
> this is why the V2 of my shooting board will have an inclined ramp that the plane will sit on. Effectively creating a skewed angle. Several years ago this was the subject of a rather intense and well thought out thread over at another forum. There was little if any argument about the advantage of a skewed approach to the material. So it became a debate about whether or not inclining the shooting boards plane platform relative to the work piece created the same mechanical advantage.


my grand father made several variations of this one...
but they are nothing like an iron bodied one...

Skew Miter

so tell me about your plan for your inclined shooting board...
only question I gots is .. won't inclining the shooting board limit the width of the material...
ie.. max out at say 4'' vs infinity...
pronounced profiles and material thickness would limit widths even more wouldn't they???


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> my grand father made several variations of this one...
> but they are nothing like an iron bodied one...
> 
> Skew Miter
> ...


Handmade planes such as those your grandfather would have made are in a class all by themselves. Yet another skill set I've never tried to tackle with any real intent, but it is on "the list"...

no doubt that inclining the ramp will limit the width of material I'd be able to use on it. But for me...thats not a deal breaker. I"m just a week end warrior that seldom deals with anything wider than 6"s. Limited by the width of my jointer at 6 1/8"s. Another consideration is that you limited the width to an extent. There is give and take no matter which route you take IMHO. Here's a good write up on a ramped shooting board..

Vogt Shooting Board «

Great article on a shop made shooter..

http://saegenbauen.blogspot.de/2015/09/bestohobel-englisch.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Woodnet...
> 
> skewed jack? don't know.. these are about as close as you can get
> in an American plane as far as I know.,,,,Stanley 51 and the LV and LN versions. Not that you would not be familiar with them,,,but others might find them of interest...


what ever plane you are using (or combination there of) for your flattening process skewing the the plane isn't an issue...
for the joining process, the thinner the material, skewing the plane can/may be iffy come square/perpendicular face to edge time...
the answer there might be a compound joiner fence...

I have a Miller Falls similar to the one in the last picture of yours... it is another painful plane to use so it collects dust...
Miller Falls planes seem to lend well to smaller hands...

when I find a plane body that is pleasure to use I find the regime of irons for it so that I have an array of cut angles and only one body... well sometimes two... maybe three...
one body.. 4 different cut angle irons.. equal 4 planes...
multitasking a tool is a good thing..

if only my Bailey #7 was skewed...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

went to Woodnet...
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh....
which one Bill...
WoodNet Forums: Search results for query:

that's all I need is another forum...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> what ever plane you are using (or combination there of) for your flattening process skewing the the plane isn't an issue...
> for the joining process, the thinner the material, skewing the plane can/may be iffy come square/perpendicular face to edge time...
> the answer there might be a compound joiner fence...
> 
> ...


Here again, can't argue with ya. I think that it all comes down to: 
Budget: Pretty much determines everything one might attempt to do
Set-up: both shooting board design and plane configuration 
Repeatability: How well both hold final settings/adjustments
Tweak-ability as needed: best done prior to working on the final fitting

most interesting conversation....will continue, but for now, grand kids and movies taking priority.... keep it going stick..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

which one...*L*....filter thru em...I think they time out threads over there, so it may not be available any longer, but still plenty to sort thru

keep you outta trouble for an afternoon


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

twoskies57 said:


> handmade planes such as those your grandfather would have made are in a class all by themselves. Yet another skill set i've never tried to tackle with any real intent, but it is on "the list"...
> 
> No doubt that inclining the ramp will limit the width of material i'd be able to use on it. But for me...thats not a deal breaker. I"m just a week end warrior that seldom deals with anything wider than 6"s. Limited by the width of my jointer at 6 1/8"s. Another consideration is that you limited the width to an extent. There is give and take no matter which route you take imho. Here's a good write up on a ramped shooting board..
> 
> ...


awwwwwwwwwwwwwww man...
Those are some premium links...
Thanks...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> *Here again, can't argue with ya. *
> 
> most interesting conversation....will continue, but for now, grand kids and movies taking priority.... keep it going stick..


killjoy...

will keep it going...
I just know Vince, Keith, Dan, the other other Bill, Chuck Nick will climb on...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> which one...*L*....filter thru em...I think they time out threads over there, so it may not be available any longer, but still plenty to sort thru
> 
> keep you outta trouble for an afternoon


I peeked...
an afternoon ya say...
you must be some kind of serious speed reader...

nothing ever keeps me outta trouble...
everything I get near seems to get me into more of it...

it is 14° below and snowing so I'll be in all day...


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

This has been a great thread. A world of info. Thanls to all.


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## Roy Drake (Feb 10, 2014)

This has been a great thread. A world of info. Thanks to all.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> killjoy...
> 
> will keep it going...
> I just know Vince, Keith, Dan, the other other Bill, Chuck will climb on...


I've enjoyed this thread - every tool doesn't need a cord attached to it. 
Some great info and learned something new today - a ramped shooting board instead of a skewed plane. - whodathunk - but when I saw the pic, made a whole lotta sense.
And of course, a couple more books from stick's library to add to my collection.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> I've enjoyed this thread - every tool doesn't need a cord attached to it.


*How true, I can sometimes reach for a hand tool and do a job quicker and easier then setting up a power tool. *


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You certainly screw up at a much slower pace at least.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> You certainly screw up at a much slower pace at least.


w/ a touch of real class...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

only to elaborate a tad more: and more personal opinions/observations/readings than anything else. Most opinions on performance 
are based on shooting boards I have made and used. 

Budget: Pretty much determines everything one might attempt to do
As with most things, you get out of it, what you're willing to put into it. Determining a shooting boards use is where you'd start. 
Is it to be used for picture frame miters such as DRT has mentioned, or for doing edge miters for boxes and the like, or both??
The more you want to do with it, the more involved it becomes. Involved does not necessarily equate to expense. I believe a 
multipurpose shooting board can be made using affordable everyday materials. It don't have to be pretty, it just has to work! 
Personally, I like pretty and enjoy "trying" to dress up jigs like these. Again, its all about what you want to put into it.
Same applies with the plane one chooses, A purpose built OTC shooter such as those offered by LV and LN at a premium or a
garage sale find with a top notch tune up at a fraction of the cost of the others. Now here I do believe there is an advantage to
the OTC shooters. Skewed blades, angled handles, blade positioning etc.. Hell, they better work better!! But, BUT..BUT..as they say,
is the end result any better? I would argue all other things being equal, probably not. A garage sale find with a proper set up, both
jig and plane will yield comparable results. I have no scientific data to support that, I just don't see why it wouldn't work that way.

Set-up: both shooting board design and plane configuration
This is an easy one in theory, but in application not so much. You want your jig to work, you gotta sweat the details. Dont' matter
if your using plywood or Bubinga, Everything has to be spot on. Screws and fasteners, tracks, knobs, handles or hold downs, all have
got to have the ability to maintain their set. If you have got to spend your time tweaking every time you use the shooting board, it'll
quickly become a dust collector. You want to set it and forget it. But, BUT, but... don't forget it... check it often. Its alot easier to 
throw a square on there and say fine than it is to complete shooting a picture frame only to realize you were off by a couple degrees. 
Same principles apply to the plane. Simply put, you just have to know what to expect and if those expectations are not meet, then 
you gotta know where to start looking and make the necessary corrections. Even a small block plane can do a fine job on frame miters
if its set up properly and SHARP!! 

Repeatability: How well both hold final settings/adjustments
Some shooters are set up to do only 45*'s and/or 90*s. Other have the ability to do damn near any angle thats required. FOr those
shooters you have got to have a means to go back and get a reliable setup if your changing from one angle to another between tasks. 
Good squares, angle finders etc. work great. Just so long as they are reliable!! If they arn't, you might as well take that big wooden
mallet sitting on the bench and beat yourself upside the head...

Tweak-ability as needed: best done prior to working on the final fitting
Even the best laid plans of mice and men will need the occasional tweaking. This all depends on whatcha got to tweak! If you find yourself
tweaking all the time,, perhaps its time to reconsider whatcha got. One thing for sure, you want to be on the money before putting that
piece of wood on there that you've just spent the better part of the afternoon profiling and getting to look just the way you want it to. 
Most likely the tweaking will be done with the plane itself. The effort required to shave off .003 vs. .010 can be considerable. Especially if you've
got a good bit of shooting staring you in the face. Take the easy route everytime, save those wrists, elbows and shoulders other endeavors.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> awwwwwwwwwwwwwww man...
> Those are some premium links...
> Thanks...


some good stuff ain't it!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

twoskies57 said:


> only to elaborate a tad more: .


.

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> some good stuff ain't it!!


than some...


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Top tip for shooting end grain on hard woods: wet the end grain with methylated spirits (denatured alcohol). Makes it easier to get a clean cut.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

good to know...


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

AndyL said:


> Top tip for shooting end grain on hard woods: wet the end grain with methylated spirits (denatured alcohol). Makes it easier to get a clean cut.



Good stuff. I'll have to give that a try on an end grain cutting board I'm working on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Well folks, I think I'm going to stop by woodcraft in San Antonio next week and check out the wood river low angle jack plane. I'm interested in trying it for planing that cutting board I mentioned above. 


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Went out to the shop last night and checked my shooting board. Turns out the 45 degree was off by a fraction. Used a 1 inch chisel as a scraper and worked it carefully until it measured 45 with all 3 of my combination squares and a draftsman's triangle. Then double checked the 90 degree stop and it was slightly off as well. More scraping until it was perfect. There were a couple of areas where glue squeeze out would have thrown the work piece off even more--that was scraped off as well.

In the process I discovered that my 60 year old square was a Stanley, engraved markings, right on the button angles. I'm going to check out the low angle plane, although I think I can get a good cut even with a block plane. Thanks for the tip on using a dab of denatured alcohol on the end grain. Every hint counts.


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