# Craftsman 10" 3HP Table Saw motor issues.



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I admittedly have pretty much abused the machine over the years and it finally gave out on me. It would start, run for about 2 seconds then trip my GFI outlet or just lock up. I know nothing about motors and was going to just junk it since I have a brand new Bosch table saw and a Delta Cabinet saw and keep the stand/table for something else however I wanted to see if I could fix it so I took it apart. 

The windings were all black from something that had been burning, I sanded the one brass ring down to clean it up. I checked the brushes, one of them gets stuck and doesn't come out. I cleaned them up, slapped everything back together and started it and it immediately locked up and smoked. Does this sound like a brushing issue? I'd hate to just toss out a machine someone else could get use out of or I could keep around as an emergency back up if its just a $10 part.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Chances are good when it started smoking that that was its dying breath. If it was locking up it may have been bearings which might have solved the problem, possibly. The smoking is a good chance of insulation on the windings getting too hot. A motor running under no load is using mostly voltage to turn. As the load increases it draws more current which heats the innards up. Too much cooks it and when it isn't turning or barely turning that happens very quickly.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

96BelisleAs said:


> I admittedly have pretty much abused the machine over the years and it finally gave out on me. It would start, run for about 2 seconds then trip my GFI outlet or just lock up. I know nothing about motors and was going to just junk it since I have a brand new Bosch table saw and a Delta Cabinet saw and keep the stand/table for something else however I wanted to see if I could fix it so I took it apart.
> 
> The windings were all black from something that had been burning, I sanded the one brass ring down to clean it up. I checked the brushes, one of them gets stuck and doesn't come out. I cleaned them up, slapped everything back together and started it and it immediately locked up and smoked. Does this sound like a brushing issue? I'd hate to just toss out a machine someone else could get use out of or I could keep around as an emergency back up if its just a $10 part.



what type of saw is it???
portable or contractor..
direct drive or belt driven...
amp rating???

sounds like a cooked motor...
either the start switch or the start cap/windings went south...
the trip is either from overload or internal short to ground...
lean to internal short to ground..

see if these help...
gotta be sumptin in these PDF's...

.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

When you let the magic smoke out of anything electrical, it's usually ready for the trash can. You are supposed to stop using it and fix or replace the offending pieces BEFORE letting the smoke out.

Charley


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

:no::no::no::no:No Smoking in my shop.:no::no::no::no:

Herb


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> what type of saw is it???
> portable or contractor..
> direct drive or belt driven...
> amp rating???
> ...


Just got home, will have to check in the morning. It is direct drive. I know for sure one of the brushs is bad because like I mentioned the spring doesn't push one of them out. 



CharleyL said:


> When you let the magic smoke out of anything electrical, it's usually ready for the trash can. You are supposed to stop using it and fix or replace the offending pieces BEFORE letting the smoke out.
> 
> Charley


It wasn't smoking until after I took it apart and restarted it. It was severely lagging and then started cutting off. However wasn't smoking. It smoked for a fraction of a second. I had my hand on the switch and hit it immediately. If its broke its not a big deal I just don't want to junk it if it can be fixed for $10.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

If both brushes aren't making good contact in a universal motor it isn't going to run.

Does the motor turn freely when unplugged?


----------



## smitty10101 (Oct 15, 2004)

If the winding are black you probably melted the shellac off the windings
Take the motor to a electrical motor shop for an estimate on a rewinding
probably about a $100.00 or so.
Look on CL for an equivalent one and R&R the old one


----------



## BillReed1 (Aug 12, 2005)

Eric - If you decide to scrap it out, I might be interested in the rip fence and rails. I am the instructor for a wood shop class at a "Third Age Learning Center" for Seniors. We have a table say that has a broken fence. Rather hard to set! The saw table is 27 inches, front to back.

I would appreciate you keeping me in mind is you decide to dump it.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

smitty10101 said:


> If the winding are black you probably melted the shellac off the windings
> Take the motor to a electrical motor shop for an estimate on a rewinding
> probably about a $100.00 or so.
> Look on CL for an equivalent one and R&R the old one


Where can you find a place which can rewind the motor for $100? I just took my 1/2 hp drill press motor in and they want $600 to rewind it. I would like to get my motor fixed.


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

kp91 said:


> If both brushes aren't making good contact in a universal motor it isn't going to run.
> 
> Does the motor turn freely when unplugged?


The motor turns just fine when unplugged, its not bound up or anything. The brushes not touching is the issue I would assume now then. 



smitty10101 said:


> If the winding are black you probably melted the shellac off the windings
> Take the motor to a electrical motor shop for an estimate on a rewinding
> probably about a $100.00 or so.
> Look on CL for an equivalent one and R&R the old one


When I pulled it apart I didn't notice any missing coating on the wires. The black appeared to be from melted plastic on the plastic case you take off to get to the back of the motor. I don't have much knowledge on motors themselves but I have taken apart all sorts of tools and motors scrapping them out and the first thing I noticed was the windings still had a clear coat on them. 

Although I do need to still get in touch with an electrical shop near me soon for my planer issues. I can handle my third and cheapest table saw going down but if my expensive planer went I would be in trouble. 



Breed said:


> Eric - If you decide to scrap it out, I might be interested in the rip fence and rails. I am the instructor for a wood shop class at a "Third Age Learning Center" for Seniors. We have a table say that has a broken fence. Rather hard to set! The saw table is 27 inches, front to back.
> 
> I would appreciate you keeping me in mind is you decide to dump it.


This isn't a full size saw its a smaller compact saw on a fixed base. Its no more than 20 inches in depth for the table top. 



coxhaus said:


> Where can you find a place which can rewind the motor for $100? I just took my 1/2 hp drill press motor in and they want $600 to rewind it. I would like to get my motor fixed.


That was my issue I didn't think it would be cost effective to have it worked on by someone else. I could replace it for $250 with a brand new one. Besides if I can I would like to learn to do things like this myself. I figured it would cost me $100 just to have someone look at it.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

New brushes and you probably will have a working motor. Of course the abuse, and running it with 1 brush and overheating the windings has probably shortened it's life considerably.

Motors are funny creatures sometimes, some fail easily and some you can't kill no matter how hard you try.


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I guess we'll find out. I think its worth buying the brushes. In the past I always just tossed tools with bad motors out. Its sort of a bad attitude to have but it is how things are these days. Before ordering them I'll pull the motor back out and make sure I didn't further damage it on last start up. I should have learned though. 

A friend of mine works at an appliance place where they rent out furniture/appliances/tvs. When people buy/rent new they occasionally take the old machines and throw them out. I asked if I could start taking them and scraping them and he said sure. One day I picked up a nice front load washer. It was 3 years old and looked brand new. It sat in my garage awhile before I got to look at it, I took it apart and couldn't find anything wrong with it. Inside I found an instruction manual, all I had to do was reset the computer. I don't really like front loads (though it worked great) I ended up selling it for $250. Out of all the washers and dryers he has given me less than half were actually broken and just required simple fixes (like new washer dogs) or just a good cleaning.


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Well here are photos of it. Oddly enough I am starting to think its not the brushes. I don't know what the part is called. I will shortly but I think its the part that holds the bushes. In the pictures it appears one has been eaten away by the winding part of the motor and doesn't allow the brush to go all the way in. I swapped brushes and it does the same thing. One side the brush spring out if I don't hold it in and barely peaks out of the housing. The other side the brush will just sit there even without pressure and it goes all the way into the housing. I am thinking that is the issue but still have to find out if I can swap it out or not. I also still have to test the windings with a volt meter and make sure they are functioning correctly. I feel they are fine though. 

In the photos both brushes are in. I also swapped out the brushes and put them on the other side but its the same result, one gets stuck in the housing and wants to spring out, while the other side stays in without being held on but sticks far out from the housing.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

You may have damaged a brush holder. They are thin metal, and you might be able to tweak it back in shape. They're not hard to replace if you can't fix it.


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

kp91 said:


> You may have damaged a brush holder. They are thin metal, and you might be able to tweak it back in shape. They're not hard to replace if you can't fix it.


A definitely damaged a brush holder. You can see where it has a scoop cut from it from when the motor spins. My question is which brush in the pictures is the correct position? Is it supposed to barely stick out of the holder (like the brush on the right in the pictures) or is it supposed to stick all the way out of the holder (like the brush on the left in the pictures)? Assuming once I test the windings and they come back alright it sounds like something that should be cheap and easy to fix.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

The brushes should be pressing against the commutator. They should move freely in the holder, with just spring pressures positioning them. They go in after the rotor has been reinstalled, so they will bottom out on the commutator and automatically position themselves.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I can smell the burnt varnish from here.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I can smell the burnt varnish from here.


Yup,me too,looks kind of like arcing on that brush holder and maybe even melted or ate it away with electrolysis. 
In my humble opinion, don't waste your time on it. Either repace the motor or part it out. 
I have fooled around with stuff like that and got it up and running and on the second time using it ,the motor craps out. 

Herb


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

...I just got back from moving a ton of stuff from a charity sale. The house where the stuff spends its time between sales belongs to a chain smoker...now my van _stinks of week old ciggy butts_...&^$##@!^)


----------



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I ended up just scrapping it. Gave it on more shot, it still bound up and just took it out and saved the table and base for later use.


----------

