# Template Routing a Fairly Small Piece



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

My question is how. I'm starting a project and need to cut "feet" for some boxes. The feet have curves and straight lines and are about 4" x 2", give or take. I've discovered that they're way too small to hold by hand. (puts my fingers way too close to the bit for my comfort) At the moment, the router is fixed in a table, but I have a plunge base for it, so that's an option. I saw a method of doing small parts by making an outer box frame that the router could rest on, but didn't understand how it worked. If someone could explain a method for doing this, I'd appreciate it. At the moment I'm using 3/4" stock, but may go to 1/2". Current bit is a flush trim bit. I don't mind elaborate jigs, but I have no budget for anything overly expensive. 

(Years of woodworking experience: well, none really. I've owned my own house for over a decade and a half. I don't do "woodworking", I fix things and remodel.  )


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi,

Could you please post a drawing or picture of the effect you are trying to achieve.

I did see an article some time ago where ready made picture frame profiles were used for feet on a small/medium sized box.

James


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just a quick and easy way to add feet..

Router Workshop: Feb2704

=======





indnajns said:


> My question is how. I'm starting a project and need to cut "feet" for some boxes. The feet have curves and straight lines and are about 4" x 2", give or take. I've discovered that they're way too small to hold by hand. (puts my fingers way too close to the bit for my comfort) At the moment, the router is fixed in a table, but I have a plunge base for it, so that's an option. I saw a method of doing small parts by making an outer box frame that the router could rest on, but didn't understand how it worked. If someone could explain a method for doing this, I'd appreciate it. At the moment I'm using 3/4" stock, but may go to 1/2". Current bit is a flush trim bit. I don't mind elaborate jigs, but I have no budget for anything overly expensive.
> 
> (Years of woodworking experience: well, none really. I've owned my own house for over a decade and a half. I don't do "woodworking", I fix things and remodel.  )


----------



## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello indnajns. Welcome to the RouterForums community. Glad you joined.


----------



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

I'm new and am limited from posting pictures or links. However, forget that they're feet. Assume I want to cut out a whole bunch of little bunnies. All 4" long, about 2" high, out of 1/2" or 3/4" stock. Assume they all have to be exactly the same. Their outline shows their little ears, little feet, little tails. How do I do this with a router?


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

indnajns said:


> I'm new and am limited from posting pictures or links. However, forget that they're feet. Assume I want to cut out a whole bunch of little bunnies. All 4" long, about 2" high, out of 1/2" or 3/4" stock. Assume they all have to be exactly the same. Their outline shows their little ears, little feet, little tails. How do I do this with a router?


Assuming you have a template and the little "bunnies" roughed out. If you can make your template thicker than the thickness of the bearing on the flush trim bit the following should work. If you make the template from multiple layers of material, I suggest gluing the layers together.

1) double sided (turners tape) the template to the bunny blank
2) double sided tape the stack to a large flat surface (router table perhaps) - template on the bottom
3) use the largest diameter top bearing flush trim bit you can find that will follow the curves of the bunny.
4) put the router into one of the many "ski jig" designs you can find my searching this forum.
5) route carefully with good dust removal and lighting

Backrouting, while generally dangerous, can be done relatively easily (not to be confused with safely) with a ski jig and a well secured workpiece. This lets you deal effectively with the tearout you are going to experience on end grain of your piece. It is still important to take light cuts, have a firm grip on the skis to control the router and be sure the double stick tape you picked out is really doing its job.

All that said, be careful as you will likely be working with your face down close to the piece. The times I've used my ski jig up close and personal I had on hearing protection (your ears are pretty close to your eyes, at least for most people), safety glasses AND a turner's face shield to deflect the chips. I didn't want to flinch if I accidentally got hit in the face with some debris.

Another option is to continue to use your router in the table top but find a better way to hold the work piece. Depends on how the "bunny" is shaped but you can use a small wooden handscrew to hold the piece plus its template as you work against the bit. Stop and readjust the piece in the clamp occasionally to get all the way around. Wooden handscrews are pretty cheap at Harbor Freight so consider getting a couple and modifying the shape of the jaws by filing/cutting/adding extra bits of wood to help you grip the workpiece. This too assumes you have roughed out the shape of the bunny in some other way. You aren't going to be cutting them straight from the flat stock ala' CNC style.


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't know if this will help or not as I can't really visualize what you are doing (being a novice myself) but check out the small parts holder jig.


----------



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

Thank you for the ideas. Everyone seems to have great faith in double sided tape. Does it really hold that well? I think some sort of combination of a holding jig and the tape idea may be where I go with this. Still pondering. Wish my grandpa were here. He made the originals and he was an ace woodworker.


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

indnajns said:


> Thank you for the ideas. Everyone seems to have great faith in double sided tape. Does it really hold that well? I think some sort of combination of a holding jig and the tape idea may be where I go with this. Still pondering. Wish my grandpa were here. He made the originals and he was an ace woodworker.


"Turners tape" is quite strong. So long as you are not taking of great amounts of material and can have clean surfaces to bond to.


----------



## labric (Sep 11, 2004)

> Originally Posted by *indnajns*
> _I'm new and am limited from posting pictures or links. However, forget that they're feet. Assume I want to cut out a whole bunch of little bunnies. All 4" long, about 2" high, out of 1/2" or 3/4" stock. Assume they all have to be exactly the same. Their outline shows their little ears, little feet, little tails. How do I do this with a router?_


Welcome to Router Forums!!:shout:

Your query for routing small pieces is similar to a problem a few years ago, presented by member "Tally", who was looking to make wooden fish lures and needed a method to route more than one at a time and without losing anything he may want to eat with ie: fingers!

Check out the posts " Bullnose help Please " and you will see a variety of solutions to routing small pieces safely.

Hope you enjoy the read as there is a lot of info imbedded in that post.

If you have any questions simply ask for more information and I and/or others, can certainly help you out.



 Ric


----------



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

Wow, yes Labric, plenty of info in that set of posts. And lots of ideas. While I don't need the bullnose bit, the ideas about templates have got my little wheels turning. I had almost decided to forget about using the router table, but now I'm leaning in that direction again. I think one of the bigger problems is that I have no starter pin. The router is grabbing the part and taking a bite out of it because I don't. Can someone say if a guide bearing would be as good as a starter pin? And what are the pros/cons of a guide bearing vs a pilot bearing? I'm using a pilot bearing at the moment. Thanks, guys.


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

indnajns said:


> Wow, yes Labric, plenty of info in that set of posts. And lots of ideas. While I don't need the bullnose bit, the ideas about templates have got my little wheels turning. I had almost decided to forget about using the router table, but now I'm leaning in that direction again. I think one of the bigger problems is that I have no starter pin. The router is grabbing the part and taking a bite out of it because I don't. Can someone say if a guide bearing would be as good as a starter pin? And what are the pros/cons of a guide bearing vs a pilot bearing? I'm using a pilot bearing at the moment. Thanks, guys.


A bearing is not a substitute for the starter pin. The starter pin gives you a non-cutting, stationary surface to brace the work against and pivot it into the cutter.


----------



## labric (Sep 11, 2004)

*indnajns*

As Rob pointed out


> The starter pin gives you a non-cutting, stationary surface to brace the work against and pivot it into the cutter.


:yes4:

For want of a actual starting pin, anything fixed point or structure near the pin will work, ie. the fence, a pointed piece of wood clamped to the table, etc. The starting pin allows you to brace your work on the pin or point as you move the work piece into the bearing bit. Once contact with the bearing bit is made, you do not need to be in contact with the pin until you change directions or move off the bearing.

Check our Bj's or Harry's posts for alternatives for starting pins, and you will see what I mean. Search "starting pins" and numerous posts will come up.:yes2:

As far as the proper bit to use, I would suggest a bearing bit be used as it makes it much easier to move the work piece along the template and will not bind or catch which can happen when you change direction.

Hope this helps you!!!


 Ric


----------



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

Hey, Bob. Pulling my question from another thread
(system won't let me post the URL here)
you said you do the arms and legs of that whirlagig with the scroll saw. Each and every one, each and every time? Suppose you wanted to do several at a time and have them all come out exact, say with a template? How would you do it? 

What I'm running into is most of the templates are for creating negative space. I need to create "positive space", so to speak. A *small*, positive space. Even with a template, by the time I got 350 degrees around, there would be nothing left holding the piece still. I'd really like to avoid nailing the parts down, but neither templates, nor cams, nor wedges, nor anything else I've seen is going to work. I can't be the only one on the planet to ever do this, so how's everyone else do it? From reading the links you all have given me, I've figured out I need to make multiples so the template/part is bigger. Now if I can just figure out how to route it without losing fingers I'll have it made.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi indnajns

To do more than one at a time I would suggest using the the Carter setup for your band saw (see video below) you can stack up the stock to 2" thick or more and by using laminated flooring that's about 1/2" thick and with a bit of tape you can make many copies at one time,,I don't think I would suggest using the template way and the router for this type of job, the router is a great tool but not always the right tool. 

Note ,,,,,for the hubs you can buy dowel rod and just cut off a chunk to make them quick and easy...or just use a hole saw...and just use up the scrap stock around the shop...

The Carter setup turns your band saw into deep cutting scroll saw, it will amaze you how well it works..

Stabilizer Demo Videos by Carter Products

Band Saw Stabilizer® by Carter Products

====



indnajns said:


> Hey, Bob. Pulling my question from another thread
> (system won't let me post the URL here)
> you said you do the arms and legs of that whirlagig with the scroll saw. Each and every one, each and every time? Suppose you wanted to do several at a time and have them all come out exact, say with a template? How would you do it?
> 
> What I'm running into is most of the templates are for creating negative space. I need to create "positive space", so to speak. A *small*, positive space. Even with a template, by the time I got 350 degrees around, there would be nothing left holding the piece still. I'd really like to avoid nailing the parts down, but neither templates, nor cams, nor wedges, nor anything else I've seen is going to work. I can't be the only one on the planet to ever do this, so how's everyone else do it? From reading the links you all have given me, I've figured out I need to make multiples so the template/part is bigger. Now if I can just figure out how to route it without losing fingers I'll have it made.


----------



## indnajns (May 13, 2010)

I don't have a band saw, only a scroll saw and I'm just not good enough to get smooth enough curves consistently like I need.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

The scroll saw can be use to make 2 to 3 copies at one time with the right blade, and like most things it's just takes practice...after all it's just wood and it does not need to be perfect.. 

Accessories
Mike's Workshop English featuring: my life story, a cancer survivor, scrollsawing samples and tips, community service, list of favorite sites and Flying Dutchman fretsaw blades for sale.
========





indnajns said:


> I don't have a band saw, only a scroll saw and I'm just not good enough to get smooth enough curves consistently like I need.


----------



## John Charnock (May 2, 2017)

indnajns said:


> My question is how. I'm starting a project and need to cut "feet" for some boxes. The feet have curves and straight lines and are about 4" x 2", give or take. I've discovered that they're way too small to hold by hand. (puts my fingers way too close to the bit for my comfort) At the moment, the router is fixed in a table, but I have a plunge base for it, so that's an option. I saw a method of doing small parts by making an outer box frame that the router could rest on, but didn't understand how it worked. If someone could explain a method for doing this, I'd appreciate it. At the moment I'm using 3/4" stock, but may go to 1/2". Current bit is a flush trim bit. I don't mind elaborate jigs, but I have no budget for anything overly expensive.
> 
> (Years of woodworking experience: well, none really. I've owned my own house for over a decade and a half. I don't do "woodworking", I fix things and remodel.  )


I am thinking of something like this for small pieces, keeps your fingers well away from the bit. 

Pattern Routing Jig is Safer and Faster - FineWoodworking


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Jon...
read this whole thread.. it covers starting pins...


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Also consider if you are routing just one edge and the end use a longer and wider piece to route, then route the edge, and clamp to a piece to route the end, then cut the piece off to make the part.
Herb


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Boy, you drug this thread out of the dungeons. 2010 was a great year though.

Fortunately, it's filled with a lot of great information on pattern cutting.

Charley


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Interesting old thread. I rout a lot of feet. For my piggy banks, but they are all part of a specific master, I would not attempt to rout one out separately holding by hand. I suppose one could rout them out with some sort of clamp or jig, but not worth the effort to me. Much quicker, easier, and definitely safer to just rout them as part of the large master. 

Think I saw mention of 4X2" bunnies. I have routed out a few things that small held by hand, but don't make a habit of it. For one or two, no real biggie for me, but if I were going to make more I would make a jig of some sort to do it with. By hand, it would be rough cut as close as possible, grip firmly with both hands, small and short cuts, shifting my grip often. And I am NOT advising anyone to try this at home.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

It only takes once to loose a finger Theo. 

I frequently use a 2 screw clamp to hold small parts when routing, and the end of one of my clamps shows that I do. That could have been the end of my finger that got chewed up. 

I also have one of these (but mine is yellow) Http://ptreeusa.com/rtr_small_stock_holder.html 

I added some 80 grit sticky backed sand paper to the gripping surfaces to improve the holding capability since the plastic gripping surfaces don't do a very good job without it. 

There is a Youtube video showing the application of Microjig's new Dovetail Clamps that appears to be a good way to use these clamps for holding small parts when template routing. The video shows many different applications. On application near the end shows how to use the clamp when template routing. 

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/...=19c067d271639ed43454695c6776cabd&action=view

I just bought a pair of these clamps along with their Matchfit Dado Jig last week, but I haven't had time to try or use them for anything yet. I didn't include a starting point for the template application in the video, because anyone considering these clamps should also see the other ways to use them. They look like they will get a lot of use in my shop.

Charley


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

CharleyL said:


> It only takes once to loose a finger Theo.


Yep, understood. Which is one reason my masters are 2 layers of 1/2" plywood, gives a lot of gripping surface. That and taking very short, and shallow cuts, plus rough cutting as close as possible before starting. Also, don't do small pieces often, or many. If I'm gonna do more than about one I figure out some sort of jig to hold them. I'm got several designs I'm going to be routing out, but they are about 3" by 2 1/2 X 3", with lots of angles and such so holding the master will not be a big issue. However, if I get a bit nervous doing the first one, I just thought of how to make a custom jig for each design, quick and easy, and custom sized to each. I figure just trace each on a piece of plywood, cut out the inside with my scrollsaw, then glue another piece on top, and it will be a nice fit on top of my master, and a handle to each side, keeping my fingers away from the twirly piece. Hope I don't need such for these designs, but it's something to keep in mind for other small projects.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I looked over the designs I mentioned in my previous post. These will be paperweights, made mostly from leftover pieces from other projects. There are 7 designs just now, and probably will leave it at 7, or at least that's the plan. The largest is about 3" X 3" and the smallest about 2" X 2 1/2". I've done quite a few other designs about these sizes, and it's pretty nerve racking. The difference with my paperweight designs is, I have a lot of angles and such to grip, and didn't on my other designs. Of the present batch I did have a bit of misgiving on one, a horse (chess knight). The head to body was just an arc, and that didn't give the grip I wanted. But then it hit me, just add a cropped mane. This added the purchase I needed. There is knight, pig, truck, rook, fish, whale, rubber ducky. They will all be 2" thick. They will be plywood, of course, rough cut as close as possible, and I anticipate no issues with routing them out. The trick, as far as I'm concerned, is to be able to grasp firmly with each hand, make shallow cuts, shift your grip very frequently, and keep your fingers away from the side being routed. If I hadn't though of putting the cropped mane on the horse, I probably would have just tossed that idea, because I was not sure of my grip on it. 

Again, this is the way I do it, I do not recommend anyone else doing it this way.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Theo,

Sooner or later, making "just one" or two small pieces while holding them in your fingers is going to be very painful and expensive. The "6 inch rule of safety" taught to me by my uncle back in the early 1950's, about keeping at least 6" or more distance between my body parts and any sharp spinney things like table saw blades and router bits, and having this 6" rule burned so deeply into my brain ever since then, has kept me safe and prevented me from doing what you are doing, even for just one part. It always forces me to find another way to do it, by using one of my shop made jigs, make a new jig, use a 2 screw wooden clamp, use Grrippers, or find some other method of keeping me 6" or more away from the cutting point. (Grrippers don't keep my hand 6" away, but I have managed to convince myself that there is enough plastic between my hand and the sharp spinney things to keep me safe while I hang onto the Grripper's handle - it took me almost a year to mentally accept this modification to the 6" rule). Yes, I owned a Grripper for almost a year before I could convince myself that it was safe to use. Now I own three of them and use them frequently.

Over the years I have accumulated several shop made template routing jigs with attached clamps. They will soon be modified to use the new Micro Jig dovetail clamps that I recently purchased. The edge of one side of these jigs is the pattern shape that I follow with the bearing on the router bit. The bit is usually a top bearing flush trim bit, mounted in my router table and the piece being routed is clamped to the top side of the jig. The existing clamps on these jigs have always been difficult to adjust for just the right holding force and the new dovetail clamps from Micro Jig should make this much easier. Without those old clamps the jigs will be easier to store too. I drill a 1" hole in one end of my jigs and hang them from hooks in my shop ceiling, wherever my taller friends won't bump their heads on them. Over the benches and table saw is where most are located with the longest being placed where their length won't affect what goes on under them. They are out of the way, don;t need precious shelf space, and are easy to find when I need the right one. Unfortunately, I'm running out of ceiling space.

Charley


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Charley. That's why I recommend others do not do it the way I do. The pieces I will be doing are not going to be made in large lots, maybe one or two at a time, and with the angles and such, and being a minimum of 1 1/2" thick (1" master, & 1/2" work piece) I can get a totally adequate grip, and I keep my fingers out of line of the router bit. The pieces are rather small, admitted, but with the things I just described I am confident. I have routed things larger, once, and will not again without a jig or whatever, simply because I could not get a grip on them that I had confidence in. I also do not have a guard on my table saw, took it off when I got it home - I don't get my fingers anywhere near the blade, that's what push sticks are fore, and believe me, I use them. I think I pay considerable more close attention to what I am doing, and where my fingers are, and concentrate on my fingers not slipping. I have seen some of the self named 'experts' on utube doing things I wouldn't dream of doing. Worst damage I ever did to myself in the shop was to hit myself on the hand/fingers with a hammer. And I firmly intend on keeping it that way. 
Different background, different experiences, so don't try doing it the way I do.


----------

