# Table Saw Update Challenge.



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

This was going to be a post on my new project- My Rockwell Table Saw. Has always been a great, very accurate saw. Plan was for extension wings, zero clearance inserts, making a beisemeyer type rails and fence, offeed table, zero clearance crosscut sled and a dado sled... Was thinking about adding a sliding table, clean-out box and router insert.

In a day and a half I installed 60" guide rails. I made 3 zero clearance inserts with splitters. I made a 10x27" extension wing for the left. I routed a miter slot in the left extension. I made a 24x27" extension wing for the right. A 14" extension wing further right for a router insert. That will give me 48" on the right of the blade to the fence at it's farthest setting..

I made a 30"x30" crosscut sled with 3 miter guides. It's big enough for cabinet panels.

Like I said, this was the planned portion. Tonight I had to trim some panels. The sled worked like a dream. Last panel, saw started screaming... Bearing.

I've been helping others with this problem... Must be the season. Saw was built in 1967(?)... It been running for over 40 years. I think it's acted admirably.

Next 2 days are packed. First lull will be Saturday to pull the saw down, pull the motor out and strip. That leaves sometime next week to get bearings.

I know- Just the entertainment.:jester:


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Sounds like you are going to have a busy week-end, Mike.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Cool Mike - I am certain that once you have it completely up and running -- inclusive of that bearing(s), you will have a very fine machine. When I worked in a large cabinet shop (mid 1970's) to build museum display cases, we had a lot of Rockwell power tools and it was some very fine equipment (and very heavy).


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Sorry to hear about the bearings Mike. Sleds solve so many problems for both router and saw tables. You should post some photos of your version to assist others in building their own.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Mike said:


> Sorry to hear about the bearings Mike. Sleds solve so many problems for both router and saw tables. You should post some photos of your version to assist others in building their own.


Mike- Thanks. Had some time today. Stripped it down.

Was only 1 bearing bad. Wouldn't pry off. Took a puller to get it into pieces (came apart). The inner race had to be shattered to get it off. Arrived at Applied with 15 minutes before they closed. They didn't have it in stock and had to special order it. It'll be Monday. Because it's a special order bearing- $20 (with the shipping and tax). Was hoping to have it together tonight. Good thing I have a backup saw.

Pictures of Sled's? Will do. I have for both Router Tables and Table Saws. Very easy to make. You want basic how to instructions with that? Fine tuning tips?


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Picked up the bearing. Back together it went. Checked tune. (WWRRRR) Back in business. Love that saw!

I got some more steel... I need to build the adjustable legs for the right side wing-extension with a shelf extending through the enclosure. That's were the cleanout box will be and the shelf will help support the legs structurally. My saw's cleanouts are on the sides. 

Then I need to come up with a 34"x40" folding outfeed table that needs to clear the newly built rear rail guides. That extension is needed for sleds (miter slots included). There's only 10" of table from the center of the blade to the rear edge = 4 1/4" of support after clearing the blade.

I still need to weld the mounting brackets to the front rail (square tubing) to be able to bolt it on to the front rail guide. 

I also to need to built the fence. I went to Sears today for ideas.

With my saw being down, I've had some time to research and think about sliding tables. If I do a sliding table (and remove the left wing), I'm still out 10" from the left side of the blade to the left edge of the saw. The front edge of the saw is well supported as it is 18" from the front edge to the center of the blade on a 27" table. 

If I do put on a sliding table... over the table... Then that would be just like a sled. I could add a support on the left side to support a longer sled. Just thinking and running it through my head.

I have the steel and the time... But, I'm wondering what I really gain on "my saw"...

Any ideas or opinions on that?


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Here's where I started from and where I'm at now (attached).


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, you already know the benefits of sleds. Easy to build and very accurate. I do not think that the money or time spent on a sliding table would give you enough value for your money or effort. I would spend the time to remove the rust and get some paint on the saw. I would also make a panel to cover the open side and install a dust port in it. Less clean up and healthy lungs are both good points for me. Nice job so far!


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Mike said:


> Mike, you already know the benefits of sleds. Easy to build and very accurate. I do not think that the money or time spent on a sliding table would give you enough value for your money or effort. I would spend the time to remove the rust and get some paint on the saw. I would also make a panel to cover the open side and install a dust port in it. Less clean up and healthy lungs are both good points for me. Nice job so far!


Thanks Mike. 

I looked at videos and exploded views of sliding tables last night.

I looked at it today while I was working on the legs for the right side. I came up with the same conclusion. I already added a miter slot to the left wing extension. If a extend that out in the outfeed and add a 24" removable or folding infeed table, then I would have all the benefits of a slider, but not have the static footprint of.

While I was looking at that, I came up with another idea... I have a Craftsman Digital Miter. It has an extruded aluminum fence. Not if I can find that material- a piece about 24" long and a piece of cold rolled 3/4"x3/8"... Then I could add that to the left of the Craftsman digital miter and use it as a very accurate slider type miter fence.

Paint is in the plan after everything is built and fitted. Yes, the lower cabinet does have a little surface rust coming through the paint.

I mentioned a sawdust box... The cabinet has an opening on both the left and right sides (Not just the left). I am planning on running a shelf from the left side, through the right side, out to the legs at the end of the right wing extension. That will have 3 purposes. First is to help support the extension legs. Second is to be a shelf, which will add more weight to the footprint and keep accessories close at hand. Third is to support the sawdust box, which will close off both sides of the the cabinet. It will have a vacuum port. Being able to slide out, that will also keep the saw easy to open up to maintain.

Riving knife? Theres is just not anything to attach a riving knife to. It's not like modern saw that has a blade guard under the table. Second is there is not enough room between the blade and the rear of the case to fabricate one. I have an extra splitter and blade guard. But that would have to be mounted through the back of the case. Rear outfeed prevents that. So when I made my zero clearance inserts, I put in a splitter to the rear of the blade in them. Just works for a 0 degree cut. but I can live with that for now until I can come up with something else..


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Tedius. Was trying to figure out ways (design) to make a fence rail adjustable. I wanted to make it rest just under the miter slots.

I made tabs, 1/8"x1"x2 3/4" plate with 5/16"x1" slots at one end. I weld those unto the bottom of the 1 1/2" square tubing that I'm using as a fence rail. I ended up using 2 washers each to shim it down. Ended up as 1/16" under the slots.

Yes, Otis and I were talking today about this...

So I looked at my digital miter gauge again...








See that extruded fence? Imagine a longer fence with a 3/4"x3/8" miter bar to the left of it, with angle iron to pivot and lock on that bar, with holes & t-slot bolts to connect to that fence. Purpose- Crosscut fence, travel 48" (infeed and table in the 2 slots left of my blade). That would give me all the perks that I would want in a sliding table, plus more (quick , accurate miters), but not take up the space of a sliding table. Small footprint. It also would keep my table adaptable.

I don't have much experience with extruded aluminum, except for some of the accessories that I have that came with it. So the question would be- 
- How do I measure the extruded piece I have to find a longer 2' piece? 
- Is extruded aluminum measured as metric? 
- Where do I find an affordable 2' piece for my crosscut fence and a 3 foot piece for my rip fence?
- Where do I find affordable High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) Sheeting? (For the fence bushings)

If I can find a reasonable 3 foot piece of extrusion. then I'm going to build 2 rip fences- an all steel biesmeyer style fence and a biesemeyer styled aluminum extrusion fence.

That's where I'm at now.


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Maybe these folks will have something you could use:
8020inc | eBay

I've ordered a few pieces from them--haven't gotten around to tinkering with it yet. Good luck.


----------



## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> Maybe these folks will have something you could use:
> 8020inc | eBay
> 
> I've ordered a few pieces from them--haven't gotten around to tinkering with it yet. Good luck.


Thanks for the interesting link. I have absolutely no need for any of these items ... but I want some! :lol: It looks like a lot of cool things can be built with all those extrusions and parts. Very tempting.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> Maybe these folks will have something you could use:
> 8020inc | eBay
> 
> I've ordered a few pieces from them--haven't gotten around to tinkering with it yet. Good luck.


Bid on? So those might not be the prices? At the odd lengths, I'm thinking they were end cuts to something.

I did find this:
80/20 10 SERIES 2040 2" X 4" T-SLOTTED EXTRUSION x 24": Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

A little more expensive. If I could find something local to me. Will research and look.

(Attached pictures)
I set up some boards about the size of what I was thinking for outfeed and infeed tables. I also had a 36 inch steel miter bar to set up what I was thinking about for a crosscut fence.

The length of the ply in front would give me 48"... But would be a bit cramped in my garage. I'm think on making that 36" to the blade. A 24" outfeed table is going to be fine in the back. If I cut miter slots in both, my crosscut sleds and a crosscut fence would do great.

Figuring out how to mount them and not interfere with the rip fence is another story.


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

@ Gaffboat--kind of like an erector set for big kids!!

@MAFoElffen--some is bid, some is buy it now. I took a little time a few months ago on some bid items and got 'em at the opening bid. Their shop is about 60 miles from me, and when i bought that stuff the shipping was cheaper than driving. My son was flying in and out of Fort Wayne airport when he first was in the USAF, so i'd pass right by there--that would be worth a stop now that i know what it is. 

Side note--after a three week leave, our Airman headed back to Idaho this morning, but flew out of Chicago early so we left at 0300...i'm dragging and he got booted up to First Class for good food and a nice nap!!


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Had some time today-

Built the outfeed table (40"x20"). Just have to route the miter slots in it (already marked). I took a design that is clamped in my workmate knock-off. That way I can adjust it.

Mounting the Infeed table is giving me nightmares. I'm playing with a "slide in" kind of thing. Saving grace is that it isn't very big. Still... Arrrrgh!


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Built 20"x20" infeed table. Made some channel from wood and braced to mount the channels. They are the sockets for stock mounted to the infeed table. So now it is removable.

Routed the miter slots in the infeed and out feed tables. Set it all up. Now it's taking shape.

Next is braces for the shelf, building a saw dust box (yes Mike, with a dust port)... Paintinghere and there. I still have the fence itself to build, but with my sleds and what I do with this saw, there's no rush on that. The cross fence has more of a priority to me than the rip fence.

Still mulling over materials that I should use for the fence(s). I was thinking that until I can afford some extruded aluminum... I already have a good supply on-hand of miter bars for that saw. Lots of angle iron. I also have a 2' piece of square tubing left. I could built a low-tech crosscut fence from that.

I'll post pictures of where it's at, tomorrow.

Did I mention the cost so far? $0.00. The rail guides were an old bed frame. The rails and the steel fence where square tubing from a weight bench. The right wing extension was from an old door. The left wing extension, infeed table and outfeed table was scraps... Etc.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

*Status Photos*

Here's the pictures I promised, attached.

Notice, there's still a spot open at the end of the right wing extension for a router insert. That will be router table #4.


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

That is impressive!! Just lining up the miter slots across 3 surfaces, then matching them with your sled--geez i'm never gonna get that good. But i'm still gonna try. Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> That is impressive!! Just lining up the miter slots across 3 surfaces, then matching them with your sled--geez i'm never gonna get that good. But i'm still gonna try. Thanks for the inspiration.


Thanks. Got a test on how well it was. The miter bars are fairly close, but slide well. I wasn't paying attention this afternoon and picked up the sled and put in the slots. Slid it back and forth to may sure it was in the slots... Looked up and noticed I had mistakenly turned it backwards.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Okay, next challenge. 

Last night I came up with a design for my sawdust drawer. Challenge is that the opening in the cabinet (18.5"wx13.5"hx19"d) is smaller than the saw footprint above it. 

I'm thinking that if I build a drawer with 8" high fixed sides, then hinge the upper sides with dowels, extending the dowels through the front with handles... That way, I hope to tilt the upper sides in to get the drawer in and out of the cabinet. While in, I could tilt the upper sides out against the cabinet sides. That should left the sawdust funnel into the drawer. And since I'm planning that, adding a latch on both sides to keep the drawer locked in tight, to help with vacuum support. 

I have a vacuum support planned... But not sure where to place a port on this saw yet. I would really have to highly modify the saw to place a collection box at the blade from underneath. (modern methods) Were to put a port on dust drawer makes more sense to me.

Challenge on that is that I only have a small shop-vac that I drag around from tool to tool. Not sure how the volume (cfm) is going to work out, unless I build a funnel/chute inside that drawer to direct the fallen sawdust to the vacuum port. (Leaving the funnel large enough for a later 4" port.) Then if I used some PVC pipe in the inside, capped at the end, with holes drilled in the sides... Then it could reach the 19" depth the collect it. There is no way my little shop-vac is going to under-pressurize the cabinet on this old saw.

Next observation- When I was planning this out last night, plywood on top the saw... My zero-clearance insert may work great, but... That little piece of wood I put in the kerf as a splitter, really gets in the way sometimes- is the only thing above the table with the blade down, and since is wood, is potentially fragile. Am thinking I should remake that in steel or aluminum, as being removable. Would have to be somehow that it's not going to fall into the blade, stay in alignment... later for that.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Okay, an update.

The first picture is the dust bin in the saw. The handles go the same direction and turn the bin extensions. (I'm thinking of putting in pins to limit the travel.

The next two pictures (2&3) are the bin extensions folded in and the bin removed from the saw.

The 4th picture is from the rear of the bin to show how the bin extensions fold out inside the saw to fill the void of the cabinet and create a funnel into the bin. Notice the furring inside the box to further funnel the saw dust toward the bottom center of the box, where there will be planned a vacuum dust port.

Pictures 5&6 show the shelf braced and the right side of the cabinet closed off.

One problem I noticed while trimming some the other day while wearing cut-offs. While cutting, I get a lot of chips and saw dust shouting out the front of the saw, through the bevel tilt arch shaped cut-out. I'm thinking about sealing it with some kind of rubber, plastic or a combination thereof. Not sure what is really available and where from, to be able to do that. I figure 2 piecs cut in an arch so the mechanism cam travel between it... Then just some window insulation foam around the top and a plastic port.

Left? The leftovers above, building the rip and crosscut fences, painting.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Had to trim some off the wings of the dust box to tip them out more. Now working great. 

Spent a lot of time with my head in that enclosure looking at the mechanism in front and how to deflect the saw dust from it. I think a kind of drape will work there.

On the fence... well spent more time on a few other 36" sleds, to act like a sliding table. These are left side, using the 2 left miter slots, flush with the left of the blade... with no front fence. Problem with these is getting thin enough on the bottom of the sled to kept the right side from falling off the sled, but strong enough to not had much flex.

The T-Square fence I had all welded up, all set for the slider bushings and the locking mechanism. I'm still playing with different locking mechanisms until I find one that works for me. All the adjustment bosses are in to get it square, perpendicular and level off the table.

It's night here now, so tomorrow I'll post some pictures tomorrow.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

*2 piece Table Saw Sled- Slider*

Was really disappointed with a one sided sled- the tearout because of the drop on the right side.

Looked at Laguna's TSS manuals again last night. Drooled. Got composure. Thought:

Let's see. European sliders go to the blade. Because of that they split the insert and the table spilts there also.

Then I thought tearout... 0 degree insert... 

Idea. I used the same open, rear only fenced sled. It is stiff (steel miter bars) and goes to the left of the blade. Built a table insert for the other side of the saw... goes the the edge of the sled and has a kerf cut for the blade. Worked great!!! And no tearout.

Last 2 pic's are where I'm at with the rip fence. Those long machine screws will be replaced with allen set screws with jam nuts. The locking device is not there yet as I haven't decided what to use yet (still testing this and that) so I haven't welded anything there yet. Although I have used if a few times with small clamps and it is accurate.. I don't want to install the sides of the fence until the welding is done on it.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; on the bin project, if you've got a vac. port on the bottom the strong inward air current should help hugely in controlling dust/chips heading outwards. 
EPDM for the rubber drape?


----------



## TRBaker (Jul 5, 2012)

Mike that is some kind of dedication. Looks great, and I can see all sorts of possibilities for using your accessories. I have only one suggestion, but at this stage it may be too late....I would cover all the top surfaces with formica so you eliminate a lot of friction on the surface between your sleds and the plywood. VT grade formica is about 1/32" thick and std. grade is close to 1/16" thick. I used VT on my saw table and it works fine.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Troy-

Thanks. Never too late if I needed it.. 

If you look at the outfeeed table, it's marine grade. The left wing is cdx. The infeed, baltic birch. The right extension, part of an old door. All waxed with clear paste canuba. I can push/pull that sled and my crosscut sled with a pinky.

On the sleds, I also waxed the miter boars, sled bottom and top... and the table/sled insert top.

So far this project has still only cost me $0 dollars. This has all been leftover ply, shelf stays, angle iron, an old weight bench, an old bed frame, dowel stock, hinges, etc. I will have to buy four allen set screws though. I need something with a little more clearance than what I had.

A big part of this project- I haven't had steady work for three years, except for some piece work or a remodel here or there. Disability hasn't kicked in either. (The doctors haven't figured out "how" I'm still walking.) I've tried to figure out what I can do with what I have.

I keep looking at that Laguna Catalog and DVD. When I win that lottery i know what I'll buy... LOL

Until then, you know as a contractor, I've got a lot of leftover wood for a lot of projects around here. Have to do "something" to keep my mind going.


----------



## TRBaker (Jul 5, 2012)

I understand totally. I was laid off in '09 and was forced to go into business for myself. That wouldn't be bad if I could keep a steady pace. Unfortunately, it is anything but steady.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Mike; on the bin project, if you've got a vac. port on the bottom the strong inward air current should help hugely in controlling dust/chips heading outwards.
> 
> EPDM for the rubber drape?


Dan-

Roofing and pond liners? I think I might just have a piece in my shed. Thanks. That just might work.

I don't have a full fledged dust collection system with 4" hoses. I put a 4" hole into the dust bin, but I have a 4" cap in it... With a 2" piece of PVC schedule 80 pipe about 1 foot long. It is drilled with 1/2" holes in the side of it, with the end capped off. I have the pipe about 1/2" off the bottom. I have my shop vac plugged into it.

Its not anywhere near enough airflow from the Shop VAC to under-pressure the saw. I tried it with out the PVC, with the PVC uncapped... How I have it now, does the best. It at least empties the dust bin.

The front arched slot for the tilt mechanism... The sawdust and chips are not drifting or rolling out of it in any kind of cloud kind of thing. Rather it's shooting out with force. Remember, I noticed that immediately while cutting in while wearing shorts. I figure if I can deflect it... Other than that, it's working pretty good in that area.

*** *** ***
Sidenote on dust control and me- Required. I do wear a dust mask indoors and then still sometimes outdoors when working. You might think that a little drastic. I have a rare hereditary "thick" blood disorder. Problems occur when the blood is too thick to carry oxygen through my brain. I've had 6 strokes from that. Big no-no's for me are dust and chemicals. I'm aware. I'm trying to do the best I can within my non-existent budget. The dust masks are to make up for those short comings. I can't do like Tim Allen and add a Chevy 427 to my shop vac to make it better. LOL 

Now, I did see a wall mount house vacuum in a barn where my horses are. Thought of talking the owner out of it and adapting to my shop... But still, the airflow is not what a dust collection system with a 4" hose would be. It might be better than what I have...


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, I have been following this thread and watching your solutions. I think the whole house vacuum would work much better than you expect. While air flow is important static pressure is what makes a vacuum efficient. Consider that vacuum is designed to remove dust and debris from an entire house. In a situation like your shop it should perform very well, especially if you add an Oneida Dust Deputy in line. The filter bag in the vac will catch a great deal of the fines that bypass the collection bin. Another important consideration is a wall mounted unit will conserve precious floor space.

What size blades does your saw use, diameter and arbor? Are you using a thin kerf blade? The thinner the blade the less force is required to turn it, right? In effect this is like increasing the saw's power.

While your waxing the plywood is a workable solution I agree that you would be best off covering it with Formica. This reduces maintenance time and adds stability and extra protection for your table surface.

Keep up the good work.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Mike- 
Really enjoyed talking with you on this today. 

For others (for reference to others reading this), all good ideas. 

That saw uses a 10" blade with a 5/8" arbor. With the clearance inside, it will take a 12" if I'm careful when raising it, but a 10" ends up with a finer saw edge (less vibration and blade flex... less saw marks). But those are very subtle differences.

He asked about thin-kerfs- I get a finer saw edge with a standard blade. 2.5hp motor and I don't notice a performance difference with a thicker blade. I don't notice a performance difference with a 3/4" wide 8" dado. I have thin-kerfs and still use for some things, but not real often.

After talking with Mike, I'm going to get the house vacuum and see how that works out for me.

Formica- just can't afford it right now, but can always do later when I can.


Mike said:


> Mike, I have been following this thread and watching your solutions. I think the whole house vacuum would work much better than you expect. While air flow is important static pressure is what makes a vacuum efficient. Consider that vacuum is designed to remove dust and debris from an entire house. In a situation like your shop it should perform very well, especially if you add an Oneida Dust Deputy in line. The filter bag in the vac will catch a great deal of the fines that bypass the collection bin. Another important consideration is a wall mounted unit will conserve precious floor space.
> 
> What size blades does your saw use, diameter and arbor? Are you using a thin kerf blade? The thinner the blade the less force is required to turn it, right? In effect this is like increasing the saw's power.
> 
> ...


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Wahoo. T-Square Fence is done. I drew up about 8 sketches on the lock. I was thinking an over-center quick-lock but still have it be adjustable. Then I locked at it and thought that precision and being adjustable is more important to me than speed.

Then I stepped back and thought, darn, I'm over thinking this and making it much harder than it really needs to be!

I took a 1" c-clamp, cut it with a die grinder and welded it on. Now it's adjustable. Loossen it up 1/2 to a turn and it glides down the rail guides.

I have to say, functionally, it turned out really well. I am happy with it. It adjusted right up. It moves easily. It removes easily. It is accurate.

Only thing left is the router/ tool insert extension. I think I'll split that off into it's own thread when I get to it.


----------



## Peter Harrison45 (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Mike , i was just reading thru an old thread here and have come abit bewilded. It is proberly a " Duh " question but why such a big infeed table ? isn't it hard to handle what your ripping and to what projects do you use it.
soryy i'm a novice trying to understand


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Peter Harrison45 said:


> Hi Mike , i was just reading thru an old thread here and have come abit bewilded. It is proberly a " Duh " question but why such a big infeed table ? isn't it hard to handle what your ripping and to what projects do you use it.
> soryy i'm a novice trying to understand


The infeed table had male square pins that fit into female sockets... So just plugged into place. The infeed table was just mostly to the left side.








That way it fit into place and it was easy to take off.

With sleds and miter gauge/fences, over 75% of my cuts are what is considered crosscuts, with the material left of the blade. With the material there, it's easy to guide the material by walking along the left side of the table. 

The infeed also made it easy to support large sleds and when breaking down sheets. A standard table is 27" deep. The blade is in the last 2/3rds., so say 9" back. I think I remember the infeed being somehwer ebetween 14" and 24"... I'm short, but is was still comfortable for me to push a sled or material past the blade with some reach left over. I think it looks longer by that picture because of the perspective. 

The trick with that infeed, outfeed and the left extension, was that all the miter slots and the extra left miter slot all lined up with each other... and it plugged (and locked) together in a way to easily go together and to remain lined up. I tried to give myself the capabilities of a sliding table without the costs or "dedicated" space. Most those crosscut techniques still cross-over to my panel saw... but easier and smoother with a true sliding table.

If just doing normal ripping, I pulled the infeed off and set it next to the saw. 

Did that make sense?

All those "things" that I learned to like in how I did things... Doing it that way made things fast, easy and simple to do accurate cut, get quality results and be able to change over from one operation to another quickly and easily.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Nice. Very nice. :yes4:


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Pete; speaking only for myself on this, but I feel the most physically at risk, and at risk of damaging my plywood, when I'm working alone breaking down 4x8x3/4" plywood sheets.
I need to give Mike's solution some serious thought as a way to take the sheets' weight and allow me to manoeuvre the plywood into position for that first rip cut (normally splitting it lengthwise). 
I've thought of hiring a young girl to help, but wifey says 'Over YOUR dead body'.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Pete; speaking only for myself on this, but I feel the most physically at risk, and at risk of damaging my plywood, when I'm working alone breaking down 4x8x3/4" plywood sheets.
> I need to give Mike's solution some serious thought as a way to take the sheets' weight and allow me to manoeuvre the plywood into position for that first rip cut (normally splitting it lengthwise).
> I've thought of hiring a young girl to help, but wifey says 'Over YOUR dead body'.


Dan- 

You know I did a "lot" of research, reading, building, throwing away, re-building, etc. on those...

On breaking down sheets (I mostly use 3/4") with my old saw, I found that I needed support for that (as I got older), but didn't have the space to have that as a permanent fixture... meaning that if it was temporary, I could reclaim that space to work on other things.

When I was looking at infeed extension designs, there was one that was simple and cheap. I found it in an old Popular Mechanics Magazine. In was just a few pieces of 2x with a hinged 2x leg. One side hinged to the saw. The other end had a hinge that was connected to a leg. It looked similar to this:
Support When You Need It - Fine Homebuilding Article

I stumbled upon that after reading this:
Extending a Tablesaw's Worksurface - Fine Homebuilding Article

That could also be expanded into a fold down shelf with fold out legs... My old infeed and outfeed was hinged to my saw and I supported it with my roller stands when pulled up...

I also ran into this product:
Ezee-Feed - Infeed and Outfeed tables for the table saw

Which supported the concept of something temporary, easy to put on and take off. I made my own attachment design to "plug" in to fittings that pinned to lock in. (Although theirs is just a hitch type of connection.) I'm not sure what they actually have patented on that, as the design is fairly old, as similar designs are pictured made of wood in a mid 40's through 50's Popular Mechanics... as folding table extensions for table saws and radial arms saws...

The other part of breaking down sheets is the outfeed. The hardest part was holding the edge of the sheet down while going off the back of the saw. Remember that most saws have the blade on the rear 2/3rds of the table... I did quite a few renditions on outfeed extensions before settlling on something. (And still made a few before the last one!!!) There was the hinged tables I mentioned above that I made. Before that was a 2x (temp) attached to the back of the saw and supported by a roller stand. I settle on the one I made and posted in this thread. Supported by a B&D shopmate. Plugged into fittings on the back of the saw and locked there with pins. That kept the height and alignment easy & consistent.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for the ideas, Mike! 
My outfeed is a 4x8 table with the Delta Contractor saw (on a wheely thingy) backed up to the end closest to the Garage door. Unless I'm doing something less than 2' long, I just open the door.
On the infeed side, Delta puts the On/Off sw. right below where _you_ have your front extension. Standing off to the left is where I usually place myself; is there a really good reason not to support the sheet off to the right? Blocking the switch brings back very bad memories of my RAS accident...not doing that again.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Thanks for the ideas, Mike!
> My outfeed is a 4x8 table with the Delta Contractor saw (on a wheely thingy) backed up to the end closest to the Garage door. Unless I'm doing something less than 2' long, I just open the door.
> On the infeed side, Delta puts the On/Off sw. right below where _you_ have your front extension. Standing off to the left is where I usually place myself; is there a really good reason not to support the sheet off to the right? Blocking the switch brings back very bad memories of my RAS accident...not doing that again.


4x8 table on the right side? At the same height as the saw? So you could spin your saw clockwise against the 4 foot and have an 8 foot outfeed?

I always thought that extra safety shutoff switches are easy to wire in. When I was still using the Rockwell, I was looking at pneumatic activated switches. It was a big bellows that you just pressed against and it would toggle on or off. Thought if mounted knee height, it would be perfect.

On the new saw, there the main, the 2 motor switches (main and scorer) a saftey on the left, a safety on the right... and yet I'm still thinking it would be nice to have another safety switch right at the front of the slider.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; I'm in a 12' x 27' space...the saw is at the Garage dr. end, centred more or less, with the feed in the 27' direction. ...the 4x8 outfeed allows me about 2' of walkway lengthwise, and that's on a good day with the shop cleaned up. 
I bought one of those roller stands and it's still in the original box; maybe I should actually set it up! *embarrassment*

Re switch: it's a 220V hookup so it'd need to be 2 pole for sure.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Mike; I'm in a 12' x 27' space...the saw is at the Garage dr. end, centred more or less, with the feed in the 27' direction. ...the 4x8 outfeed allows me about 2' of walkway lengthwise, and that's on a good day with the shop cleaned up.
> I bought one of those roller stands and it's still in the original box; maybe I should actually set it up! *embarrassment*
> 
> Re switch: it's a 220V hookup so it'd need to be 2 pole for sure.


Just an idea... This is like one of the renditions I did (look at the attached). It has limited swing, but tilts down towards the saw to catch what slides off the saw. 

It then had enough travel to tilt down towards the ground as the material exited the saw. Good things about this, is it can be a little off and still work. It doesn't gouge the work as it over centers the stand to the ground (like a sharp unmovable edge did).

That "catching" worked better as a gradual getting the material, instead of the roller alone trying to be under the material at a fixed point (which alone, didn't work out as well). 

When not in use, I pulled the pins and hung the extension stand top on a wall. Then I folded up the roller stand. I still have the two stands to use on other things.

Lessons learned from using something like that... Those stands are light in weight. I added eye bolts to it to tie it to the back of the saw so it din't get pushed away from the saw. It was still a bit top heavy, so what I ended up with was "weighting down" the feet to anchor it in place (temporarily). Like adding sand-bags... but I used 2 short pieces of railroad rail on top the feet...

It worked good as a portable solution to go out on jobsites and around here. I used waxed laminate covered ply (scrap countertop). I thought to make it better, that I would add ball bearing rollers to the top, to cut down the drag.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

On safety switches...

I guess it depends on how your saw is wired. I admit that my 240 volt saws have contactors (relays). The main switch cuts all the power to the saw "completely" to all the wires. The main is a 3-phase switch with many contacts, which all then go to the contactor. All the other switches are connected in to the contactor and are single pole.

The power goes through the contactor. Even when my saws are wired 240 single-pole, 240 3-phase or 480 volt 3-phase... Going through the contactor, all the other switches are single pole, having one wire to and one from them. "On" switch "energizes" the contactor. The "Off", "Safety Stop" and the "equipment door micro switches" are all on the same circuit, with one wire going between all of them...

Wired in that way, it is easy for me to add a safety switch. I just splice into that "off" circuit. (At least, that's how I see it...)

For you, if no contactor or relay present, then a 2-pole switch.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Again, Thanks Mike! That 'teeter-totter' concept is brilliant. 

Strangely enough, I seem to be out of railway rail?! *Puts on Costco list...* 
I'm thinking that _any one_ of my 5 Gal pails full of mixed nails and screws will do for ballast.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Again, Thanks Mike! That 'teeter-totter' concept is brilliant.
> 
> Strangely enough, I seem to be out of railway rail?! *Puts on Costco list...*
> I'm thinking that _any one_ of my 5 Gal pails full of mixed nails and screws will do for ballast.


LMAO- Lots of those 5 gals pails here also! Weight is weight. (But I'm trying to trim down on those...)


----------

