# 45* on small pieces?



## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Need to cut sides for a ring box. Like to do it with 45* so no end grain. Can't seem to get a consitant cut on my table saw and the chop saw is fairly dangerous at this size.

Is this what a sled is for? Not shure how to get there from hear. I will be using hard wood and cutting material about 1 7/8" to 2" tall into 1 7/8" long pieces with a 45* on eather end. 

I will also need to cut the top and bottom but that I can do on my chop saw.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Mike


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Make blocks of MDF to the size of your insert sides. Use a bearing guided 45 degree chamfer/bevel bit and after adjusting height of bit, route away on a table with the good wood on the table side. Or bevel a long strip on 2 edges. Cut to size and fit with the unbevelled sides top and bottom.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

A "V" groove bit will work too, with the use of a fence and a push block.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*45* bit not true*

I tried the 45 bit I have but the 45s didn't come out good. I think the router may have been a little out of plumb as the frued has a lot of play in the height adjustment.

Anyway I ended up setting up a jig on my chop saw to get it done. Fingers where way closer then I like so I will have to come up with a better way.

I am thinking about trying a sled with clamps and a stop block. Any help appreciated. 

The pics is the second try at 45s on with the chop saw and the first put together of what I want to do. Need better corners.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Mike R.....

a while back, i came across an article about building the perverbial box within a box. I think it was in shop notes... Essentially the format was like what you presented in your pics. I thought this wouild be a cool lil thing to learn. So I made a very small sled. Just big enough to be safe t work with on my TS...After a lil tweaking and a few practice runs I had the 45* edges down pat... Give a small sled a try. The one I made for this was about 18 x 20... Another lil trick you can try is after you're piece has been glued up and dried well, a lil spritz with warm water on the bad edge and a round screwdriver can be used to bring the edges together. Just lightly, very lightly sprizt the edge with the water, then take your screw driver and work the edges together by sliding the driver lightly along the edges..

just something to give a shot. I made the sled out of scraps..


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I will stick with my method.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Have you got a photo of your sled please Twoskies?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

here ya go. nothing fancy, but it did the job...

I always found these kinda small projects make for great learning exercises..


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*sled*

Mike those look awsome. I just couldn't get my set up to come out right. Before I rabited the edges for a closer I tried to do a lining but the chop saw kept tearing up the little thin wood I was using.

Bill I would like to see a pic of the sled you made for this also. Did you use clamps to hold the pieces?

Thanks
Mike


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mike R... no clamps.. but they certainly wouldn't hurt to have!!!


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Thank you, nice skills! Do you not find the lack of guards dangerous, We in the U.K. are horrified watching NYA. We have stringent H&S laws. In school you have to have guards and BIG EMERGENCY OFF switches and foot switches and notices everywhere, good practice. I dare not use my Wagner Safety Planer at school (drill press not accurate enough anyway, the cast table is not quite level, and aux tables are frowned upon.) Everything on a drill press has to be clamped down or in a vice that is bolted to the warped table.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank ya Mike... and to be honest with ya, No, I don't use a guard. I know I should, and I know its pretty stupid not to. I got into the habit of not bothering with it, and its stuck with me through the years.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

In order to truly get a 45* V groove bit to work, you need the larger sized bit(s), 1in dia. or larger. I do believe that Bill did come up with a very good solution. I too would think I'd be adding some clamps though, even if I had to "sandwich" the piece between two scraps.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I will set my router on my Radial Arm Saw unit, hold the wood against the fence and a stop. Then I can see what I am doing.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Mike,

I believe Bj does the same thing.   If it works, great, if it works and you stay safe, even better. :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Sometimes it's best to use hand tools for small boxes

Mitre Box With Saw
Jorgensen® Mini Precision Miter Saw (64005) - Hand Saws - Ace Hardware
Stanley Consumer Tools #20-800 Mitre Box With Saw : 20-800 - Buy.com

======


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I've used my big honkin chamfer bit to do 45s


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

Me too, if I can hang on to them safe 

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Ghidrah said:


> I've used my big honkin chamfer bit to do 45s


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

I was thinking on the line of a hand plane and a shooting board for the job, not everything needs a power tool.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

I have seen it mentioned several times now but am unclear. What is a shooting board and how is it used?

I think I will try a miter box. I had thought of that but didn't have one and a home built box would be to slopy. I will put it on the list but the list is long and the funds are short.

Thanks
Mike


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

Check out this site.
Shooting board, how to setup and use


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Try 80 or 90 tooth 10" blades, if the piece your cutting is long keep the blade an 1/8" above the stock surface. If the piece is thin and or short raise the blade high so only the leading cutting edge touches the stock then pull it away.

Another thing I do with splintery materials is razor the cutting line 1st.


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## anotherBob (Oct 28, 2009)

awoodnut said:


> I have seen it mentioned several times now but am unclear. What is a shooting board and how is it used?
> 
> I think I will try a miter box. I had thought of that but didn't have one and a home built box would be to slopy. I will put it on the list but the list is long and the funds are short.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, hope this helps: http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/18304-shooting-board-scotch-233-tape-dreamy.html At least it won't cost you much beyond getting your plane tuned up and a little time. You'll find that you don't have to fuss all that much on getting a perfect cut from the saw... just close, then the plane will take you where you want to go... quickly.

I was flat amazed how well this works... got all of the boxes done in time to give them away, plus a couple more stragglers. Also, make sure you find some of that Scotch 233+ tape, it made all the glue ups very fast and easy... that stuff is amazing too, the tape acts like a clamp, pulling the wood together till the glue dries. I used TitebondII, Gorilla glue, and epoxy on different boxes... depending on the type of wood... without a problem.


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

anotherBob said:


> Hi Mike, hope this helps: http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/18304-shooting-board-scotch-233-tape-dreamy.html At least it won't cost you much beyond getting your plane tuned up and a little time. You'll find that you don't have to fuss all that much on getting a perfect cut from the saw... just close, then the plane will take you where you want to go... quickly.
> 
> I was flat amazed how well this works... got all of the boxes done in time to give them away, plus a couple more stragglers. Also, make sure you find some of that Scotch 233+ tape, it made all the glue ups very fast and easy... that stuff is amazing too, the tape acts like a clamp, pulling the wood together till the glue dries. I used TitebondII, Gorilla glue, and epoxy on different boxes... depending on the type of wood... without a problem.


Hey somehow I missed this post, What a great post and photo shoot and its chucked full of great info thanks for re-posting,,


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Nice sled Bill. I especially like the matched sides.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Thanks anotherBob for the information.

I will build one of those. I am also going to have to build a donky ear for most of what I need right now.

Dad said he has a plane he never used and I can have that. Maybe not a perfect one but will get me started. All I have is the small block plan I keep in my tool box for fitting tight doors and such.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This is the quick, simple safe way that I make mitres and you wouldn't normally make a box smaller than this one.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harru

That looks like a great way to remove finger tips 

ping/pong
=======


harrysin said:


> This is the quick, simple safe way that I make mitres and you wouldn't normally make a box smaller than this one.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Harry, is that box silky oak ? Looks good.
Bob, why do you think he'd cut his finger tips ? Looks like he's got push blocks to do it.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Drasbell/rick..

thanks for posting that link, great info.... a good shooting board has been on my todo list for quite sometime now and I think you may have provided the plans.. that one is definately getting saved!!!

Woodnut...A quality plane is a good investment!!! low end or high end planes are only as good as the blade. especially on end grains and figured wood. Take the time to read up on putting an edge on your blades...makes all the difference in the world...


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have a collection of Stanley/Bailey pattern planes. 2 of them Have been scraped, sole and sides to give a little bit of relief, and do they cut well, yes they do, no stickying at all. I then finish off with a guaranteed flat soled plane.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gavin

Push blocks are great BUT when the stock gets that short it's time to find a new way to do it or get some bandages you will need them when the stock jumps out of your grip..

My rule is if the stock is shorter the 3" it's time for a jig or some other way to get the job done, bits and blades don't have a mine and they will do what you ask of them, cut/remove stock/parts with in a blink of a eye.


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gav said:


> Harry, is that box silky oak ? Looks good.
> Bob, why do you think he'd cut his finger tips ? Looks like he's got push blocks to do it.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mike...

a finely tuned plane is an absolute joy to work with!~!~~ *S*


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Me thinks some are forgetting the use of feather boards to help hold the piece(s) down. Harry is showing the same way I do it and, (exactly what I tried to state earlier), which is also the same way as the RWS way.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

research how to sharpen planer blades is probably my next thing twoskies. 

Harry I am doing ring boxs so only about 1 7/8" sides. I did try that from a suggestion I got on this post but my bit wasn't alligned properly and couldn't get good 45*. Too much play in hight adjustment I think.

I am useing a fresh sharpened 80 tooth on my chop saw and will have my 40 tooth 7 1/4 for the table saw back Monday from the sharpener. A new blade for the table saw isn't in the budget now.

I believe with a sled on the table saw and a shooting board I can get these small pieces done. I also like the idea of doing it with a plane.:laugh:


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

awoodnut said:


> I have seen it mentioned several times now but am unclear. What is a shooting board and how is it used?
> 
> I think I will try a miter box. I had thought of that but didn't have one and a home built box would be to slopy. I will put it on the list but the list is long and the funds are short.
> 
> ...


I've one like Bob's Stanley one that was very cheap and works well. My only beef with it is the plastic saw guides that, sooner or later, will go. If I had all my metalworking stuff out of store, I'd use them as patterns to cast brass replacements. The rest of it is fine. I don't think it cost me 20 bucks. I thought HF probably did them, but not currently.

Incidentally, while I was rooting around there I came across this - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices Obviously much too dear for what you are wanting, but I was amazed at how cheap it was. Does anyone know if they are any good? If HF do them someone over here should have something similar. The Chinese stuff crops up everywhere !

Cheers

Peter


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

I had a real nice radial arm saw for years and I had to sell it. It just didn't fit in my 12' X12' shop. 

I have an old cabinet door I am making a sled from to try. If that isn't to my likeing I will probably try a miter box. I can finish both up with the shooting board and plane which will be another cabinet door tonight.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

got the sled done and it seems to cut a very tight 45*. I will put another ring box together tororow and ck it for shure.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Probably one for Mike. I should know, but why is the Luthier shooting board set at a taper rather than being flat?

Cheers

Peter


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

This is used to ensure that the edges of the 2 piece guitar tops and backs are perfect for gluing together. The pair( back or top) will be planed together, opened up and glued and clamped together. If it is straight, ie. planed perpendicular to the face of the wood, there is less contact area than if the joining edges are at a slight angle. More surface contact More gluing area, stronger joint.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

After the router table which method I've used safely for more years than many members have lived, I touch up on the disc sander, by this method I can be sure that all ends are exactly 45* and all lengths identical.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

gav said:


> Harry, is that box silky oak ? Looks good.
> Bob, why do you think he'd cut his finger tips ? Looks like he's got push blocks to do it.


Gavin, it's "Sheoak" which only grows here in Western Australia. The silky oak is from eastern Australia and is even more expensive than Sheoak because it's becoming very hard to get, it's very desirable for furniture making. You're right about the pusher block, it' big and has 80 grit paper glued on which holds small work pieces very secure.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

I will give the sander a try. I think my 6" wheel will do that. I do however want to try the shooting board. Don't know if it will work but it looks like fun.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Make a small zero clearance table & fence for your chop saw & mount a toggle clamp to hold piece so no fingers are near blade. The zero clearance fence also keeps parts from flying across room after cut.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=2150&filter=clamp


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Mike Wingate said:


> Make blocks of MDF to the size of your insert sides. Use a bearing guided 45 degree chamfer/bevel bit and after adjusting height of bit, route away on a table with the good wood on the table side. Or bevel a long strip on 2 edges. Cut to size and fit with the unbevelled sides top and bottom.


Hi Mike Wingate:

Can you explain this more please. I just can't picture what you mean about the MDF and how you use it. I would like to try and make some ring boxes.

~Julie~


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

For each side, cut a piece of 10mm thick MDF, the same size as the final external dimensions of the side.This will be your template. Double sided tape the side to the template block. Mark the 2 edges which will be beveled on the appropriate sides. With a 45 degree bearing tipped chamfer bit in the table. Place the MDF side of the template/side to the router table, and chamfer the 2 edges, running the bearing against the MDF template. Hope that helps.


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Ahhhh, thanks!
Much clearer.

~Julie~


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