# Should I go cordless?



## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

I’m new here, please be gentle with me. :smile:

I have a 500W corded impact drill for a long time. I use it for pretty much everything from drilling concrete to metal to wood.

Lately I have acquired a bunch of power tools since I got a tad more serious on woodworking . A router, jigsaw and a finishing sander, all corded. I figured, I don’t plan on using those stuffs too often, corded means I don’t have to worry about battery becoming unusable after extended storage. I guess I am a tad old fashioned and I like things to last forever.

But I wondered if I made the wrong choice there.

Not too long ago I bought a Black & Decker 12V drill that is on sale, since the NiMH stuffs are going out of style. I didn’t need another drill but thought I could use a powered screw driver.

Lately the said impact drill needs a trigger switch replacement that I can’t find. So I started looking for a replacement. I was mainly looking at rotary hammers, both corded or cordless, since they would drill pretty much everything. The impact drill I have been using struggles at reinforced concrete like ceiling and pillars.

I also started using the 12V as a drill, I have to say I am pleasantly surprised, I would say it works for 95% of my need, and I do like the freedom it afforded. That other 5% would be drilling concrete and driving large hole saw. Rare occasion, but they do happen.

This leaves me a conundrum. I am about to buy the most expensive tool for that 5% of my drilling need. I also can’t say I use a drill every month. Most of the time only when I have a project going on. So that 5% is the rare of the rare occasion.

The model that I am most interested in is an 18V Bosch rotary hammer. The tool and battery cost themselves are within budget. I looked at what other Bosch 18V tools I can potentially purchase in the future, those however are rather pricey. But at the same time I also wished I hadn’t bought all those corded tools so I can justify the cordless system cost.

But when I look at the 12V system, the prices seems more reasonable, but it offers little more than I already have and that 5% would remain unfulfilled.

Since l am already quite invested in corded tool, should I get another corded rotary hammer and use the 12V drill for most other stuffs? But if I were to go cordless, I guess I gotta start somewhere?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have an impact and drill that came as a kit. It offered a free circ saw with the kit or I wouldn’t have it. I recommend having at least a 1 cordless drill. It will go places that a corded is a pain to use like up on a roof and doesn’t have a cord in the way for bench work. I don’t contract out anymore so I don’t really need the rest to be cordless. If you do need those tools to earn a living that’s different. They’ll pay for themselves. Eventually the batteries will become an issue. Battery powered usually means less power and maybe a duty cycle limitation. 
I have a fairly cheap hammer drill/drill (it’s switchable) but as a drill it is too fast and low torque.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

I have a Dewalt 20v impact driver and drill set that came with 3 batteries as a promo when Lowes opened a store in my area a number of years ago. I also have a Dewalt 12v impact driver and drill that only cost me the price of a battery (my friend was throwing them out because he has a number of drills and didn't want to spend money on another battery). I also have a few cheaper cordless drills. All of these units are used regularly because of the convenience. Then I have a Ridgid corded drill that I use for pocket screws. But, in addition, I have a Dewalt corded hammer drill that I use when I need to drill concrete etc.

OK, I have a lot of drills - I may not have answered any of your questions, and it really depends on which way you want to go, but, I like the convenience of cordless power tools and the benefit of corded when I need them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey NB or N/A, whichever you prefer (as opposed to a name we can call you by); welcome! 
The cordless technology is as bad as computer technology in that it obsoletes itself on a very short time line. The corded stuff, by comparison, is timeless.
They'll have to drag my extension cords from my rigor mortised hands. No bias here...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> The cordless technology is as bad as computer technology in that it obsoletes itself on a very short time line. The corded stuff, by comparison, is timeless.
> They'll have to drag my extension cords from my rigor mortised hands. No bias here...


As Chuck said: If you do need those tools to earn a living that’s different.

I work in my shop, so electricity is available. Don't need no batteries needing charging just when I need them. Or becoming obsolete, and have to spend $ to replace all. 

You want cordless. Here you go.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

I was a corded drill bigot, having had a powerful Metabo impact drill for forty-odd years. The early battery drills were handy, but lacked grunt and rpm. Then I bought a DeWalt 18V nicad drill, and used it for 99% of my needs (has a 3 speed gearbox and the highest rpm - better for drilling small holes faster in concrete). But the Nicad batteries lasted the promised 300 cycles, no more, and were expensive to replace. Also the replacements (both new originals and re-packed) somehow seemed to last less long than the first set that came with the drill.
So I hardly ever need the Metabo now, but have become a DeWalt bigot (drills only) and bought a brushless 18V lithium ion XRP model three years ago (don’t know about the USA, but the same drill costs almost three times now than what I paid for it - essentially unaffordable), and plan to keep using it until I can’t hold a drill anymore. I even got somebody to bring me out the tower adapter from the USA to use the Li-ion batteries in my old De Walt. I must say, though, that Metabo has brought out some really beefy Li-ion drills, comparable in every way to the DeWalt, and better priced.
But a real surprise for me has been the usefulness and durability of a really cheap but powerful (1000 Watt) corded Chinese-made hammer drill that I bought in Cyprus 10 years ago. It has more than enough torque to spin a 4” carbide-tipped holesaw through a masonry wall, drives an sds 3/4” bit through concrete like it was wood, and takes sds chisels and gouges for masonry and concrete. Cheap and nasty sds chuck , but has paid for itself several times over. A useful cordless sds chuck hammer drill is very expensive around here.
My guess is that you would find a good 20V cordless quite comparable to your 500W corded drill -if that was sufficient for all your needs, you will be fine. If at times you needed more grunt than the 500W, you may want to stay corded - May be cheaper than cordless. If you want to drill concrete, go sds chuck, whether corded or cordless. There is an adapter for holesaws and the like.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

@CVC, do you have / recommend one of these cordless impact drivers? I recently read an article claiming they are so much better at driving screws without camming out or stripping the screw head, that getting one is a no brained. Any thoughts?


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I was just thinking along these lines today. I have had a 1/2" cordless drill forever, and I have a smaller 3/8" drill and impact driver set that I use for 99% of everything. I was able to get another pair of bare tools for cheap, (I hate changing bits when working on a project). 

I was looking on the wall where to store these, and I decided to let the 1/2" cordless drill go. I don't use it hardly at all, and it would mean getting rid of a charger and 2 batteries.

I have a big 1/2" corded drill for the big jobs anyway, and a 3/8" corded drill which is dedicated to drilling pocket holes because it does a far better job than a cordless drill does, and it doesn't weigh as much as a cordless. I like the smaller lightweight tools, which is why I love air drills at work. All that power, and it doesn't weigh a thing.

I never really got "cordless fever", I work with guys bragging on their 18v, 24v, etc drills that weigh twice as much as a corded version, yet they never use them more than 12 feet from an outlet... If I was on a job without power I could see it, but at home I can't.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm building my collection using Milwaukee 18v. Got the impact driver and drill on sale with 3 batteries and a charger. Added the hedge trimmer, shop radio, and multi tool .... so far. Lots of power and the batteries last a lot longer than before.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

kp91 said:


> I was just thinking along these lines today. I have had a 1/2" cordless drill forever, and I have a smaller 3/8" drill and impact driver set that I use for 99% of everything. I was able to get another pair of bare tools for cheap, (I hate changing bits when working on a project).
> 
> I was looking on the wall where to store these, and I decided to let the 1/2" cordless drill go. I don't use it hardly at all, and it would mean getting rid of a charger and 2 batteries.
> 
> ...


You remind me of myself. I was doing a project in my gym and had 2 Dewalt drills and 2 Dewalt impacts all going at the same time, as I hate changing bits. I still had to change bits,as I needed a 5th drill lol .


I had Makita 14V nicad cordless drills and hated them . Gave them all away at one point .
Went all Dewalt 20V , the newest pair is brushless . I love these drills !


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I never asked what they use at home, but both my sons use cordless tools of various types, on their jobs. A huge percentage of their job sites have no power available, so for them it is a necessity.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You can get around the need for extra drills by using quick change chucks and bits. The impacts are already quick change and you can get quick change chucks to put in a drill Chuck. I have one set of metric quick change bits to 6.5mm and a set of imperial to 1/4 inch in quick change so one drill sand one impact are usually good enough.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

2 18v DeWalt drills, with one 20v adapter. One 18v DeWalt impact drill. Other 18v toools include DeWalt jig saw and DeWalt riciprocating (saws all type), and a 6.5 inch circ saw. I love using those tools and not having to juggle cords. But if I have to work on concrete, give me a corded tool instead.

Much of woodworking is done in a shop, which centers on the table saw, drill press and for most of us, a router (freehand and table), where cords don't matter much. Sanders, flat or random orbit are easy to use with cords, and you can drape the cord on an overhead hook to keep them out of the way, then you also have the hose for dust collection to fuss with. 

The last issue is the lifespan of batteries. A cordless tool has to really deliver to be worth having to replace them when the batteries die and require replacement. That's one thing I do like about the DeWalt system, they have the 20v adapter. But the lock to the tool is very stiff and clearly you need to buy an adapter for every tool. That's much better than complete oblescence when your batteries die. I just found 18v large XRP batteries for $105 a pair, far less than the $150 at HD. The battery lifetime issue is a deal breaker when it comes to many brands. If the manufacturer won't give you an upgrade battery plan, then screw them, stay away, let their brands die on the shelves.

I'd love to have a cordless nailer, but only if I used it constantly (never going to happen). Got to get your money's worth on high priced cordless tools.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

Thanks guys for your responses and personal stories, I really appreciate them. :smile:

I am merely using the drill for stuffs around the home, not professionally.

This is the model I am looking at. Also note that rotary hammer is a tad different from the similarly named hammer drill. This is a more specialised tool for concrete, but for me it is also interesting that it can be used as a powered chisel. This has an SDS+ chuck.










Not to long ago I had a home renovation, I tried using my 500W hammer drill to install some lights. I managed to install two and ate through a bunch of drill bits. My drill does regular concrete fine, but reinforced concrete like ceiling is a whole different animal altogether.

I ended up calling a handyman to install the rest of the lights. He came in with a rotary hammer. He drilled the each hole in seconds, one handed. :grin:

So at that time I thought to myself I want one of those for my next drill. This is before I bought my puny 12V NiMH Black & Decker that proved worthy for most other stuffs.

I also can see how cordless can be useful in this situation. I don't have to worry if I flip the right switch on the circuit breaker. Not to mention the LED light on the drill would be really handy where there is no light.

But the problem is of course this is not an everyday scenario. By the time I need to install another ceiling light, at least the battery would be long dead. :grin:

I think for some tools, cordless is a bigger deal than others. Say for a router or a sander, they create some much fine dust that it would be impossible to use them in a living room. But for a drill, or may be a jigsaw, clean up is not so hard with a vacuum cleaner on hard flooring. You guys are right to note that, when confined to a bench, all that cordless freedom is mostly nullified.

I think you guys cleared my head a little. I agree that having at least 2 drills is useful. I'll at least keep my current 12V as a screw driver like I originally planned to.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have an ancient Craftsman corded drill. Haven't used it in years. Ryobi 18V +1 had taken over. The Ryobi has tons of torque for driving screws. Corded drill is useless for that. Negative- spent lots on new batteries as the original batteries died. Found some blems at $99 for four batteries.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

When I installed car stereos for a living in the 80s and 90s, 12 and 14 volt Makita cordless drills were essential. Expensive, but also powerful, with a lot of "feel" so you didn't strip the customer's expensive dashboard etc. they were $300 or more each back then, made in Japan.

When the 14V finally died about 10 yrs ago, I made do without anything cordless, but one B+D hammer drill with a half inch metal chuck for years....and hated using it........but...no dough, kid, etc.

About 5 yrs ago, I bought a used set of Porter Cable cordless 12V and 18V drills, impact drivers, multiple batteries and chargers from a car club member (a contractor) for $200.

12V: 2 chargers, 4 batteries, 2 drills and 2 impact drivers
18V: 2 chargers, 4 batteries, 2 drills and 2 impact drivers

Have since added a recipro saw, 1/2" hammer drill and 1/2" reg drill, 7-14" circular saw and a flashlight along with 6 more batteries. Everything when it was on sale / clearance. 
The 18V batteries were at Lowe's for $10/pr instead of $100. I bought both sets they had.

I really like having small versatile cordless tools, they are invaluable for working on cars, especially interiors. I also have about 30 air tools and a whole bunch of corded sanders, routers, saws etc. It is a luxury to have them all, but every job calls for the right tool.

I know a couple of friends who swear by the DeWalt 20V impact guns - one charge allows you to change 4 wheels at the race track twice, and it is half the weight of my $400 air impact gun. But it also cost $450 and doesn't have the power when things get real tight.

All of this is designed to give you some food for thought, perhaps a used decent set of cordless will get you into that game, worst case is having to buy some batteries. I know I despise lugging cords and heavy tools around.....almost as much as having to deal with ****ty old batteries that don't hold a charge long or cycle out early lol.
I dumped 3 batteries this week, so I'm down to 11 now; but I also like having dedicated tools loaded with the proper ends - one impact with a counter sink, one with a 1/4" drive socket, one drill preloaded with a commonly used drill bit. I do the same with my dozen air tools when I'm fabricating metal - so nice to have 4 die grinders all loaded ready to go. At $10 or $15 each at HF, it is not a luxury, but rather a solution to a problem most people don't realize they have lol.

Once you commit to a cordless system it makes more sense. I would never do without small and large cordless tools tho. The 12V drills and impact drivers are so tiny and useful......and way easier to handle, especially overhead or in tight ugly places. With cobalt drill bits, they perform way beyond expectations.

Good luck with your search and purchases.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Cordless drill...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mountaineering rock drill... eh...
ummmmmmmmm...
Dan.....
you ain't young anymore....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

> I am most interested in is an 18V Bosch rotary hammer.


I have both..
12 and 18V Lithium...
great stuff....
for a hammer drill consider the Bosch Bulldog.... the rule...
https://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-...rotary-hammer/bshr11255vsr-rt,default,pd.html
https://www.cpooutlets.com/recondit...d&prefv2=Bosch&prefn3=voltage&prefv3=14 - 18V
pay attention to AH ratings... the more AH.. the heavier duty longer lasting they are...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

> I have acquired a bunch of power tools since I got a tad more serious on woodworking


hold the phone...
I forgot to welcome ya...
welcome to the forums Tim....
and..
I hope you wander over *to this link...*


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Knothead47 said:


> I have an ancient Craftsman corded drill. Haven't used it in years.


I have 3 or 4 old corded drills. The only one I bought was a cheap B&D in 1976 or 76, still works, still use it regularly. The others were given to me, and all way over 20 years - were old when given to me - and all still work, and are still used, regularly. 

At this moment there are no plans for cordless woodworking tools of any kind, unless they are hand powered - got two eggbeater drills, and a nice brace and bit; besides the handsaws, an old Craftsman mitre saw that looks almost new, and various other hand tools. 

And, as so often happens, there is a however. At times a CNC shop makes available free plywood sheets, that they have CNCd material out of. Plenty of wood sized to do a number of my projects. Here's the however. However, they will load anything less than a pallet load, anything less you load yourself. Got no way of carrying that much at once. So, if, and when, some comes available my only recourse is to cut some sheets up, and load those pieces. Which means either a handsaw (don't think I could hack that much use of one at one time), or a battery powered saw. I'll just have to wait and see if the wood pops up again.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

The cordless vs corded will go on as long as some buy Chevy and some buy Fords. I use Dewalt 20 Drill, 6.5" Circ Saw and 4.5" side grinder. I also have had a Makita 18V drill and 18v driver for a long time. All of my tools have the lithium batteries and they seem to last forever. The only reason to use corded would be power requirements. For Christmas I bought my son in law a Dewalt 60V Chainsaw. The 60V dewalt batteries can be run on the 20 volt tools. zthey are not 60 volt in the 20 volt tools but rather are three 20v batteries used sequentially. In the 60V Chainsaw they use the full 60 volt power but only 20 v at a time on the 20 volt tools. FYI the 20 Volt Dewalt is really only 18V. They market in the US as 20 but because the Europeans make them be more truthful in advertising the same tools are marked 18 V in the EU. 

Yesterday I was at Lowes and they offered a new bare Dewalt tool and you get a pair of 4 amp hour batteries and a charger for free. I would really like a 20V Dewalt 5" random orbit sander especially if the batteries are free. May go back and get the sander with free batteries.

One negative about the Dewalt batteries is most of the drills come with the small battery. That battery works great with the drill, but I have the cir saw and the grinder and the small battery wont last until the water gets hot. The circ saw has a brake that is engaged every time you let off the trigger. It drains the battery more than the cutting. The side grinder also has the brake and eats up the battery. I bought two 5 amp/hour batteries and they solve the battery life problem but at a cost. So now I have 4 batteries for my Dewalt tools, two small and two large and the mix works for my uses. 

If you buy cordless I would get Dewalt for a couple of reasons. Hitachi is becoming Metabo and the name change can sink a company, plus will the new company carry parts for the older Hitachi line. Porter Cable is a low end consumer brand that is just good enough. They use a lot of plastic in the transmissions and will never stand the test of time. Makita makes a good line of tools but they are pricey. Craftsman has been sold to Lowes and they are replacing their Cobalt line with the Craftsman. The long term viability of Craftsman is in doubt in my mind. 

When you go on a job site you see a low of yellow Dewalt. The reason is pros just want their tools to work.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

> When you go on a job site you see a low of yellow Dewalt. The reason is pros just want their tools to work.


marketing and myth is the real answer...
IRL - repair parts, batteries and their CS....


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gdonham1 said:


> The cordless vs corded will go on as long as some buy Chevy and some buy Fords. I use Dewalt 20 Drill, 6.5" Circ Saw and 4.5" side grinder. I also have had a Makita 18V drill and 18v driver for a long time. All of my tools have the lithium batteries and they seem to last forever. The only reason to use corded would be power requirements. For Christmas I bought my son in law a Dewalt 60V Chainsaw. The 60V dewalt batteries can be run on the 20 volt tools. zthey are not 60 volt in the 20 volt tools but rather are three 20v batteries used sequentially. In the 60V Chainsaw they use the full 60 volt power but only 20 v at a time on the 20 volt tools. FYI the 20 Volt Dewalt is really only 18V. They market in the US as 20 but because the Europeans make them be more truthful in advertising the same tools are marked 18 V in the EU.
> 
> Yesterday I was at Lowes and they offered a new bare Dewalt tool and you get a pair of 4 amp hour batteries and a charger for free. I would really like a 20V Dewalt 5" random orbit sander especially if the batteries are free. May go back and get the sander with free batteries.
> 
> ...


I had 3 14.4 Makita drills and gave them away , well the batteries were all hooped .
Went with Dewalt ,then bought a second pair with the brushless technology. Love the light weight and never find myself reaching for the old one .
I’d sooner have multiple chargers going with light batteries ,then a heavy bulky drill .
I don’t believe in battery powered skil saws, only drills and maybe reciprocating saws.
Well I guess whipper snappers ,as I have a Dewalt one of those to


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

gdonham1 said:


> The cordless vs corded will go on as long as some buy Chevy and some buy Fords.


You guys go at it all you want. If I can't handle my needs with a corded tool and an extension cord, I don't need to do it. My number one drill is still the cheapo corded B&D I got in 1975-76. My battery tools are flashlights. And I'm content.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

JOAT said:


> You guys go at it all you want. If I can't handle my needs with a corded tool and an extension cord, I don't need to do it. My number one drill is still the cheapo corded B&D I got in 1975-76. My battery tools are flashlights. And I'm content.


It may be harder to convert you to a cnc router table than I first thought :grin:


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> It may be harder to convert you to a cnc router table than I first thought :grin:


Just may be? My router table already is CNC - cute n cuddley. Hehehe


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> It may be harder to convert you to a cnc router table than I first thought :grin:


Nope, they have cords. He'll fit in just fine


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Tim... I haven't read the other responses but here is my take. Battery powered power tools need to be replaced when the batteries die or you need to buy new batteries. The length of time before the batteries die? 3 years? The cost of new batteries? about the cost of a new tool. With my experience the tool is fine but the batteries are no good.

I love the convenience of battery powered tools. I hate it when the batteries die because I know I am stuck buying a new tool every 3 years when if it was corded and a quality tool a lifetime is feasible. 

I just ordered replacement batteries for my 18v Dewalt. I decided on the non Dewalt batteries for $35 compared to their $149. It's a gamble but if the batteries last a year or more I will replace the tool(s) instead of the batteries when the next battery suicide takes place.

I believe the only battery operated tool in the future for me will be a drill.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

Marco said:


> Tim... I haven't read the other responses but here is my take. Battery powered power tools need to be replaced when the batteries die or you need to buy new batteries. The length of time before the batteries die? 3 years? The cost of new batteries? about the cost of a new tool. With my experience the tool is fine but the batteries are no good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is exactly my concern.

Supposedly a battery has 500 charges. If I charge once every 2 months (I’m far from a heavy user, this is already being generous). So I would get get 80 years? It’s too good to be true. I’m guessing there is something like an expiry date.

The boss of Dyson once said their V10 cordless vacuum can last up to 10 years under normal usage. But their battery is supposedly something more advanced than lithium ion (I don’t remember what).

10 years is perhaps too much to ask on a power tool battery, with very light use, do you think 5 years is possible? If it is 2-3 years shelf life, I would think it is not worth it for me. 2 batteries is like $100+, like you said that’s the price of a decent power tool. And as others has mentioned, if it is worth it or not depends on how much one uses them.

At the moment I am almost set on the Bosch 18V rotary hammer and a may be a circular saw too since Amazon is having a $20 off. I chose Bosch over Dewalt or Makita because locally their tools + battery combo is much more competitive than the others, even beating online prices.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

kp91 said:


> Nope, they have cords. He'll fit in just fine


You can amend my previous posts. My younger son gave me a cordless circular saw. Used, but still in good shape. Except for one minor detail. There is no cord. So it is cordless, because someone cut the cord at the handle. So I spliced on a new cord, and it now works fine. Except for one minor detail. The trigger is broken, so it starts running as soon as it is plugged in. Is this a problem? Not at all. For my more dangerous power tools I use a HF foot switch on them, and do so on this also - plug the foot switch in, plug whatever tool in, turn the tool on or lock the trigger on, and it is not running, but step on the foot switch, the tool comes on, step off the foot switch, the tool stops. No problem. I'm sure this would work just as well on a CNC router. :grin:


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

JOAT said:


> So I spliced on a new cord


This should be a standard accessory. But of course this would kill most their battery sales.

That said I do remember seeing a third party battery to wall wart adapter, it was for an old and unpopular platform that I don't recall.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

if you really want to go the cordless, route for drills this is the best approach.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have 4 drills, 3 are battery powered, 1 corded. The corded drill, a Craftsman, was my first drill, and it gets the least use of my collection. However, there are times I am glad I have it. My most used drill is my Bosch 12V. It is light weight, but still has plenty of power for most functions. I also received several years ago a Bosch 18V Drill & Impact Driver set. I use the drill a lot in conjunction with the 12V. The impact driver does come in handy, especially with larger/longer screws. However is probably my second least used drill in my collection.

Note, I also have two old B&D 18V Firestorm drills with NiCad batteries that I got well over 10-12 years of usage out of them, before the batteries started going. While I could get the batteries rebuilt, there some other benefits to moving on from them, so I ended up retiring them, but still have them. I have found the Lithium Ion drills are lighter but just as powerful, with the batteries able to be charged faster. I also have an 18V B&D Circ saw that came in a kit with one of the drills. It never got much use as it tended to drain the battery FAST, so that I could only get a very small number of small cuts. It got retired with the rest of the B&D tools.

Other than the drills, I don't own any other battery powered tools, as I have the power in my shop worked out that I have outlets where I need them. That said, I have considered trying another circ saw for breaking down stock when prepping for milling.


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## st8yd (May 10, 2011)

I am a builder and have been in construction over 30yrs, so I have quite a few tools. I also do a lot of shop work, I HATE chords. In the cordless dept. I have had Bosch, Makita, Panasonic, DeWalt, and Ryobi. I have found Ryobi to be the most economical and last as good as the others, batteries are cheaper. I only buy the Lithium+ batteries. You can watch the sales and get better deals on them, I have often bought a drill kit just because it was as cheap as buying batteries.
Before the Ryobi 7 1/4 saw was available I bought the Dewalt 60v cordless saw, and will not buy another corded circular saw for carpentry (I wouldn't use it for concrete)

Get yourself the Ryobi impact driver and hammer drill kit with Lithium "+" batteries. The next rotary hammer SDS drill I buy for concrete will be Ryobi cordless.


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## OldCurmudgeon (Feb 25, 2012)

I'm a big fan of cordless tools. Yes, the batteries die eventually. But I can use the tool in the shop (and most anywhere else) without looking for an outlet to plug it in and without getting tangled in the cords. I have a Ryobi 18V set (drill, circ. saw, recip. saw, nail gun, hot glue gun) and a Bosch set (drill/driver and impact driver) with two batteries for the Boschs and 4 batteries for the Ryobis. The Ryobi batteries are about 5 years old and still work wonderfully. The drill has a lot of umph and can easily drill in concrete (not as good as a hammer drill, though, but I hardly work in concrete - I'm a woodworker...). I expect to buy a cordless orbital sander and hand-held router soon (probably Bosch).

In my opinion, it is worth the money to replace the batteries when they die for the sake of the convenience while they are alive.

This last weekend, my son and I built (assembled) an outdoor swing-set for my granddaughters. Between the two of us we had 4 drills/drivers and enough batteries and chargers, so we didn't need to change drill bits or screwdriver bits and it made the work go much faster.

Oh, I have an old craftsman corded drill somewhere... haven't seen it in years, except I'm sure I packed it with the rest of the shop when I moved from California to Ohio 6 months ago. Not sure if it made it :smile:


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I posted earlier about Lowes offering a Dewalt Bare Tool with a free battery. I went back and bought the 20V XR Cordless Variable Speed 5" Random Orbit Sander ( $113.00) with a free 3 Amp/Hour Battery and Charger. I used it today and love it. I have a Dewalt 120V 5" Random Orbit Sander that I have had for 3 or more years. The cord was always in the way. I think I will like the cordless better than the corded tool. If I want I can use two different grits and get done faster now. I think the cordless tool are the future of the shop. I use my cordless drills almost every day and since I have two I can predrill and then screw without changing things around. I still have a Milwaukee 1/2" corded drill that I have not used in 3 or 4 years. If I need more power than the cordless I can get the Milwaukee out and start drilling.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Any time any of you guys wants to get rid of a working corded tool, you can just send them along to me, I will give them a good home. In fact, I'll even pay the shipping.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

Thanks guys again. 

I just sold my corded Dewalt finishing sander, I have to say I liked it very much for the brief time I had it. The router I'll be mounting it on a table, so it's not going anywhere. That left me with just a corded jigsaw, which I think is not for me. I think won't bother getting a cordless one.

So I think I am more or less untethered now .

Now I just have to decide if I want a light 12V drill to supplement a corded drill that I will hardly use, or a high end 18V drill that does everything and weighs as much as a corded drill.

Then there is the not so unimportant aspect of the available tools in each cordless system.

I think the cordless drill is the most important, this I think I want to get a good one. Then I want a smaller circular saw and a sander, or possibly use a multi tool as sander. This limits my choices in the 12V world. There are no 12V sander, except for oscillating tool that can work as sander. 12V circular saws are limited to 1" cut depth, and only Bosch and Makita have them. Not impossible as I work with plywood most of the time. I think the most common 6-1/2" saws are too big and heavy for me.

This is like getting married and will have a profound impact on my life.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

And like marriage ...... the batteries eventually wear down.


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## Larry42 (Aug 11, 2014)

Biagio, I run a commercial shop that drives a lot of screws. We use the top of the line Makita battery impact drivers. Extremely durable and far better than the contraptions called "drill drivers." Once you are used to them you can easily control how deep they set the screws. For something I rarely use I'd stick with a corded tool. I've got a corded Bosch SDS hammer drill that has been good.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

Got sick of it and bit the bullet.

Ordered a cordless Bosch rotary hammer, it came with a charger, battery, and an impact wrench, all 18V. Thinking of getting the 18V sander as well.

It seem to make sense to stay in the system and get another battery and an 18V saw. But for the same money I could get a wimpier but smaller Bosch/Makita 12V saw, drill, their batteries and charger. I shouldn't prefer the later, but for some reason I do.

I would prefer to keep them all blue so that it doesn't offend my aesthetic, but I suspect the 12V Bosch might have a small ergonomic problem because it can't stand upright on its grip like the Makita.

If my therapist is ineffective I might get the oscillating multi tool as well.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Navyblue said:


> I would prefer to keep them all blue so that it doesn't offend my aesthetic,


No problem. Paint them. My tools get painted bright yellow; helps brighten the shop, and makes it feel sunny.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

I’ll see if I can find “Bosch blue” in the paint catalog, if not this is a deal breaker for me.


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## OldCurmudgeon (Feb 25, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> And like marriage ...... the batteries eventually wear down.


But batteries are much easier (and cheaper) to replace...


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## OldCurmudgeon (Feb 25, 2012)

The Bosch 12V drill / impact driver duo may seem weaker than 18V tools, but it's doing excellent work in my shop and they are much lighter (and easier on the wrist) than my 18V Ryobi. I use the drill for pre-drilling and the impact driver to drive the screws (duh...) and don't have to change bits. It's true, however, that these tools can't stand on their own, unlike most of the 18V tools.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

OldCurmudgeon said:


> But batteries are much easier (and cheaper) to replace...


True -- especially the cheaper part.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

OldCurmudgeon said:


> The Bosch 12V drill / impact driver duo may seem weaker than 18V tools, but it's doing excellent work in my shop and they are much lighter (and easier on the wrist) than my 18V Ryobi. I use the drill for pre-drilling and the impact driver to drive the screws (duh...) and don't have to change bits. It's true, however, that these tools can't stand on their own, unlike most of the 18V tools.


I guess it is safe to say that the primary usage of drill/impact driver on woodworking is for screws.

Personally I deal with mostly small screws around 1", at most 2". 12V is plenty for those.

The 18V rotary hammer I got is 7lb, the 18V impact wrench that came with it is 4lb, all without batteries. :grin: If they offered the 12V impact driver or drill as a choice I would have picked them. As it is now it is a little hard to justify a whole new platform for just a single drill (I think I might be getting the 18V saw for the versatility). That said the drill will probably be my single most used power tool.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

A battery operated circ saw is a pleasure to use. Not good for construction where you're chopping up heavy, wet lumber all day long, but so easy to pick up and use with a guide to cut up ply on the fly. Used it yesterday to trim off a 1/4 inch from the top of a door. Quick and easy. It's a DeWalt. Recently found the 18v batteries on sale for $100, far cheaper than the $150 a pair at HD. I had a local battery company rebuild a Makita battery pack and they did a poor job, used undersized batteries. Has anyone had a DeWalt or other bramd battery rebuilt and how well it worked. In theory, it should be fine.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

*OK, I'm convinced. I'm willing to go cordless, the right way.*

After much thinking about it, have decided that if I'm going to go cordless, to go all the way. I figure one of these is a good place to start.


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## Thewoodbasher (Jun 26, 2019)

I much prefer cordless tools and in this day and age the power is also there!


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Has anyone had a DeWalt or other bramd battery rebuilt and how well it worked. In theory, it should be fine.


 @DesertRatTom, I had a DeWalt 18V pack re-packed twice, and re-packed it myself twice - the pro’s did not do it any better than me. By this I mean that, even using larger-capacity sub-C Nicads, the pack did not last as long as the original before requiring replacement, although the higher amp-hourage made a noticeable difference to run time.
Having said that, when I bought a new pack, it also did not last as long as the original. I cannot find a date stamp on the batteries, but I suspect that a whole batch were imported here originally, and sat on the shelf for years.
I have since given up on nicads, and managed to get one of the conversion towers to use the 20Vlithium-ion batteries in the older tool. The battery seems to drain a bit just sitting in the tool - have you had the same experience?
Apropos a second battery not lasting as long as the original, that has been my experience in general, whether with auto batteries, watch batteries, laptop batteries and especially camera batteries (button cell type). Even with the same brand and model number. Built-in Obsolescence?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I read an article a little while back that said tools will drain the batteries if left connected. The article suggested that if you know you won't be using the tool for a while to take the battery off.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I read an article a little while back that said tools will drain the batteries if left connected. The article suggested that if you know you won't be using the tool for a while to take the battery off.


Chuck:

I just lost a Dewalt battery-that had been in my 1/2” drill, unused, for over a year. When I mentioned th battery failure to a fellow woodworker his first question/statement was you left the battery in the drill.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

So I got married to the Bosch 18V system.

I got myself a rotary hammer, impact wrench, circular saw, and a finishing sander. Now I have more cordless tools than corded.

The cordless freedom is nice, just yesterday I was sanding my ceiling on a ladder, job would be a lot less enjoyable if the tool had a long tail.

The rotary hammer and impact wrench though, I am not so sure if i made the right choice.

I put a 3/8 multi material bit that I thought was dull on the rotary hammer, it turns out it wasn't so dull after all. Perhaps my old drill was under powered. But the thing is so long and heavy that I can't imagine drilling hundreds of pilot screw hole with it.

As for the impact wrench, may be it was too powerful? It has 2200 inch lb of torque on paper. It is neither smaller nor lighter than my drill. I find that if I don't put enough pressure on it, during the pre hammer stage I can strip small philips screws just as easily as a drill. It has a higher RPM than a drill, but no clutch. I don't deal with screws longer than 2" so I question the point of all that speed and torque. I am thinking of selling it and replacing with a weaker impact driver or even a regular clutched drill.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Good choice! Just finished enclosing a space between sheds to house my DC setup. Did nearly all with cordless drill, impact drill, cordless circ saw, cordless saws all, and cordless jig saw. Could have done it with a corded tools, but what a hassle compared to the easy, no fuss cordless tools. I have all DeWalt stuff but if I had it to do over again, it would be all Bosch.


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

DesertRatTom said:


> I have all DeWalt stuff but if I had it to do over again, it would be all Bosch.


May I ask why do you think that though?

My impression from reading between the lines, is that Dewalt tools are generally more powerful, and may resist abuse better. For Bosch, it seems that their battery are top quality and last long. In the past Bosch means reliability. These days their tools seems to be somewhat cheaper than their peers, I am not sure what this means.

What is interesting for me is, In the US their tools has 3 years warranty. In China where many of them come from, blue Bosch has only 12 months warranty. In Malaysia (another major source) blue Bosch has a whopping 6 months warranty. What does that say about their confidence in their own product lol.

In the German speaking world, Bosch is still regarded as king though. I asked my European friend what he thinks of Bosch, his reply was "standard quality". I suspect it is his polite way of saying the brands from other countries are sub standard. :grin:

Ultimately what pushed me to Bosch was their price. And it doesn't hurt that they are in navy blue. :grin:

At the moment I am still looking for a drill and may be an impact driver. On this aspect Bosch's offering seem to be somewhat lackluster apart from price. So I am sort of still flirting with the others despite being married to Bosch 18V.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Navyblue said:


> So I got married to the Bosch 18V system.
> 
> I got myself a rotary hammer, impact wrench, circular saw, and a finishing sander. Now I have more cordless tools than corded.
> 
> ...


Switch over to Robertson square drive or Torx drive and you won't want or need to change tools. https://www.amazon.com/robertson-screws/s?k=robertson+screws
https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Screw-Drive-Approximately-Screws/dp/B01HDT1CPW


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

My 18v Milwaukees have settings on them to increase or decrease power - or torque. Love em


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## Navyblue (May 24, 2019)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Switch over to Robertson square drive or Torx drive and you won't want or need to change tools. https://www.amazon.com/robertson-screws/s?k=robertson+screws
> https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Screw-Drive-Approximately-Screws/dp/B01HDT1CPW


As a matter of fact I have acquired a box of Bosch impact bits set that contains those two types, just that I don't have any screws to try them on. From the look of it seems to be Torx is easier to get hold of for me.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Square drive is gaining popularity in the US but is competing against Torx. Here in Canada where Robertson hailed from it's a different story. Many small hardware stores and the Home Hardware chain sell them bulk in bins like nails. My local store sells them for $3.99 a pound in zinc (gold coloured) coated and they are nice and sharp, unlike the Spar pack types which need a starter hole to drive easily. Ceramic coated ACQ compatible deck screws are $5.99/lb. McFeely's is one place you can order them from down there. https://www.mcfeelys.com/square_drive_screw Once you use them you will want to throw away all the Phillips drive ones you have. The square drive is such a positive engagement that it is quite easy to snap the heads off when screwing into hard woods like white oak or hard maple so care needs to be taken and starter holes drilled and countersinks should also be considered. 

I've recently started using GRK screws for some projects and I really like them and they use a T-15 torx driver. They have better weather resistance and I think they are also compatible with ACQ treated lumber. HD carries them: https://www.homedepot.com/b/Hardware-Fasteners/GRK-Fasteners/N-5yc1vZc255Z8ta They have a self drilling tip so they drive really easy, but they are also more expensive that Robertson's are up here. 

Robertson and Phillips (the phillips head drive inventor) both worked for Henry Ford. Up to the time Robertson invented his drive type in 1908 there were only slotted types. Henry wanted Robertson to hand over the patent and Robertson told him to pound sand. Then Phillips invented his drive and he did turn the patent over to Henry. The Phillips drive was actually better for the auto industry as you can't over tighten them like you can a square drive. The head will strip first as you pointed out. I believe that Henry was able to keep Robertson's screws from being sold in the US until fairly recently. I asked a hardware store owner who was in his 60s back in Portland in about '74 for them and he just gave me a puzzled look and they had been around for over 60 years at the time.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Once I bought the first 18v Dewalt and some spare batteries, I started buying the "naked" tools without extra batteries. 

I would have gone with Bosch because every one of their tools I do have is superb, accurate, holds adjustment, has more than sufficient power. 1617s, Compound Sliding Miter, ROS, lots of bits, blades and lots of accessories that are all top notch, and easy to find replacement and parts, customer service that's outstanding.

I am not dissatisfied in any way with the DeWalt 18v system, and at least they have provided a 20v upgrade path, which is a nice thing. I just recently found DeWalt batteries on sale, two for $99, so I'm fully committed for another several years, since I'm 76, someone is likely to inherit them because they'll outlast me. The DeWalt drills also have torque adjustments (I have two). 

I found a paint covered 18 v DeWalt battery laying in the street I live on. Works great and is fairly new. So I'm really charged up.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Made the decision. Going cordless. only under special conditions. One of my on-going projects will use a one cylinder engine. Not about to yank a pull cord anymore to start it, and not about to lay out that much cash for an electric start. Instead will go the K.I.S.S. route. Going to get a HF battery powered drill, with a 18V lithium battery, they're listed for about $25. I'll use a socket with it and use that to crank the engine. Not to the stage where I will need it yet, and that is the only cordless batter powered tool I'm planning on getting. Thought you had me converted, didn't ya? Hehehe


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

@Cherryville Chuck,
What is your take on the common self-threading screws nowadays, compared to the older tapered slot-head wood screws? When they first became common some thirty years ago, I remember a lot of old hands in the British woodwork mags muttering darkly about them not working in hard timbers, snapping off, not holding, etc. but either the screws have improved, or the predictions were too Cassandra-like.
I still drill pilot holes and counter sinks, but do not miss drilling the clearance for the shaft of the screw.
+1 for square drive, vs Philips or Pozi.


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## st8yd (May 10, 2011)

The square drive has been popular in FL with deck screws for many years and Torx is starting to take over it.
I hate slot head wood screws and throw every one of them I cross in the trash!
I will take the Torx over the square and the square over the phillips (which I really don't care much for anymore)
They are fine going in but how do they come out years down the road exposed to weather, the torx seems to be best and lucky if you get a phillips out.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Biagio said:


> @Cherryville Chuck,
> What is your take on the common self-threading screws nowadays, compared to the older tapered slot-head wood screws? When they first became common some thirty years ago, I remember a lot of old hands in the British woodwork mags muttering darkly about them not working in hard timbers, snapping off, not holding, etc. but either the screws have improved, or the predictions were too Cassandra-like.
> I still drill pilot holes and counter sinks, but do not miss drilling the clearance for the shaft of the screw.
> +1 for square drive, vs Philips or Pozi.


I like the self drilling type screws but the hardest thing I've driven them into that I can remember is some 30 year old D fir floor joists and they went into those like butter. If I were using long screws and going into something really hard like maple or white oak I think I would still drill a pilot. A self drilling point is not the same as a pilot hole and often, especially in hard woods, a screw driven into a pilot hole may hold better because only the threads are cutting into the wood where without it the screw may be resisting going down and is damaging the fiber from the action of trying to force the point down deeper. You see the same action when you start many screws. They will start to bite but then rip out the the few threads they've cut until you get a little deeper and there is enough friction with the sides of the hole to keep it forcing down.

Along the same lines of thought, Lee Valley sells kits (drill bit and tap) for drilling and threading wood with machine screws as opposed to wood screws. I've done this a few times in particular when replacing small brass screws on the escutcheons of antique furniture. Their trials have shown that machine threads in threaded holes hold at least as well as threads cut by a wood screw. My experiences say that's correct. I've never had a machine screw pull back out yet in 20 years or so that I've been doing that.

Someone else mentioned removing old screws. I've probably done a few thousand square drives that in some cases were so rusty that the shaft was about to rust through. I haven't used any torx for that long so I can't speak for how well they'll come out later. If they've been painted over or if the heads are really rusty then you may need to take a pick and clean out the socket first but most are removable. I've also used square drives to make threads for the crappy Phillips head screws that come with things like bathroom towel holders so that you can sink them without stripping them on the way in. I've used the same screw to make a dozen holes and they are often still okay even after being driven and removed that many times, something that is impossible with even a really good quality Phillips like a drywall screw for example.


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