# Hand Cut Dovetails



## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I am planning on trying to cut my first dovetails by hand. I purchased a DVD by Andy Rae on the construction of doors and drawers. I watched the video and made up a hard copy of what he discussed. It took me all morning to do and was worthwhile because it helped to understand the steps after I had to listen and then write out a description for people to follow.

I will attach it to this thread for others to use and learn from.

I will be posting my progress and the lessons I have leaned along the way both good and bad.

I will have to make a run to Lee Valley and pick up some more TOOLS! namely a dovetail saw and some dovetail chisels.

Stay tune.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank goodness I do not have a Lee Valley nearby!!! 
Their dovetail saws have reviewed very well and for the money quite an excellent value 
IMHO. I'd be especially interested on which dovetail chisels you decide on and how well
they perform. I use pairing chisels and while they do an "alright" job, "dovetail" chisels are designed for the task and I'd think making cleanup a whole lot easier. 
A personal preference is to use an marking gauge with a knife/blade as opposed to a pin and a marking knife for the long grain lines. A scored line makes referencing the chisel alot easier and more consistant as well. 

looking forward to following this thread.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Looks like a job for someone with a lot of patience. Guess I'll have to buy a jig.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

boy, don't ya know it Deb!!! patience, practice, patience, practice, patience, practice....


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Now Deb you are one person suited for this because everyone knows how patient you can be. I think cutting hand dovetails will be a rewarding experience and very relaxing. one... (wellI am hoping it will be) I am finding a quite shop is more peaceful for me apposed to machines running all the time.

I took the Veritas 4 1/2" smooth plane for a test drive yesterday and it was awesome. The sound of the wood shavings coming off of it was stimulatig to say the least. The feel of the plane is solid and feels just right in my hand. The weight is just right and now I need to make room on my bench so I can smooth down the boards by hand.

BTW Deb I used the WS3000 wide blade attachment and it works great for me. I recall you had some issues with yours and maybe I can share my insight if your still having problems with yours. The key for me was getting the top flat and square. ONce I got it set I was off to the races.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Dan I found the EZ Pro Dovetail Jig on Amazon for 40.00 + 15.00 shipping. That was a little better then what Grizzly quoted me for shipping, so I bought it. I cannot draw, cut, or even imagine a straight line freehand, so handcut dovetails would be an extraordinary challenge for me. I have been that way from the first time I held a crayon. I want to make a box for my nephew's cremains, so I am going to try the jig on that. 
The issue I ran into with the WS3000 wide blade attachment was getting it flush with the discs. And every time you change grits you have to readjust it. I did get the wide plane blade reasonably sharp, but not as sharp as the smaller blades in the regular WS slot. I just found it more of a PITA then anything. Maybe I was being too picky. But it did such a nice job on the other blades I was a bit disappointed when I couldn't achieve the same results. I have read lots of reviews and many people had the same issue. 
I am looking forward to seeing how you make out with the handcut dovetails. I envy you for having the patience to try it.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

One comment about Andy's PDF you linked. He draws the tail lines down past his scribe line. I'd suggest that you DO NOT emulate that step. Stop your pencil line at or just above the scribe line. This is a little visual trick to help you stop the saw cut right at the scribe line. If you attention wanders just a little bit, you might be inclined to keep following the pencil line past the scribe line. That is bad. 

Also, try and work with the show side of the board facing you when cutting tails or through pins. Again, this makes it easier to stop the saw cut. If you accidentally go a little past on the INSIDE, no big deal. But going past the scribe on the outside is tougher to recover.

When cutting the sockets, there is some debate about intentionally cutting past the scribe line. I've seen pictures of the insides of old drawers and I've seen a few in person where they cut well past the line. This deepens the cut in the sides of the sockets making for less chisel work. You just have to decide for yourself if the overcut offends your delicate sensibilities. 

Good luck and have fun! Dovetails aren't as hard as everybody thinks they are. Just be methodical and it will come out fine.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Came across this earlier this morning, I thought this to be one of the very best tutorials out there...*S*

Popular Woodworking - Dovetails Du Jour


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Bill that is awesome! Supper is going to take a lot longer to make now..LOL.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> Bill that is awesome! Supper is going to take a lot longer to make now..LOL.


well, chances are, you'll never look at a sweet potato the same way again...:sarcastic:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi


That guy needs to get a life, obsessed with wood working I think LOL

========


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Came across this earlier this morning, I thought this to be one of the very best tutorials out there...*S*
> 
> Popular Woodworking - Dovetails Du Jour


Thanks Bill,
That was entertaining to watch.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Came across this earlier this morning, I thought this to be one of the very best tutorials out there...*S*
> 
> Popular Woodworking - Dovetails Du Jour


Except they aren't dovetails. They are "shove tails". Look at the geometry of the "tails". :blink:


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I guess it brings a whole new meaning to the term "Boxed Lunch" !


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## don martindale (Jul 9, 2010)

How are the dovetails coming?

I agree that cutting dovetails isn't as hard as some make it out to be. As RW said, just be methodical. The best thing is to practice with your saw, & while you're learning, ONLY use that saw. you'll get used to following & splitting a line easier. And you don't have to go crazy with chisels. If your chisels aren't quite beveled enough on the sides, you can take care of that on the belt sander (don't do this to $300 japanese chisels!). I only pare half-blind sockets & hounds tooths at final clean-out; I saw & chop the waste as much as possible. 

The best advice I can give you is after you start the cut, DON'T CORRECT. If your angle is off a little, don't worry, especially while learning. You'll never be able to fit the joint. Besides, look at antique furniture. People pay big money for that slightly off, hand cut look. Good luck......don


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Will try and get them started this week. Football gam eis tomorrow night and then the next night I am helping a friend build a tabletop with laminate. Too many projects on the go and work is getting in the way.

Will post pics when I get my first one done. I have to mill the lumber down as well to size.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Why not start tommrow night in front of the tv? You can learn to dovetail, and eat good wholesome food at the same time. right??


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

*Hand cutjoinery with stle*

For hand cut joinery why not give these a try. While not technically dove tails, they are wonderful ways of making drawer joints. This hutch was rescued from an old stone house built in 1894 that was destined for the wreaking ball. The hutch was built by a Scottish craftsman named Clinish and this was his 281st in a series, at least I think that it was as the No.281 and his name and date 1896 are written in big black letters on the bottom. I will be completely disassembling it for a complete restoration. I love the fact that he used hide glue as it's so easy to work with. 

I also managed to snag all of the Oak stairs , banisters, newel posts, Balusters and baseboards, three floors worth no less and after refinishing they will look just fine out at the cottage. I was really under the gun as I only had one and a half weeks to get what I wanted out before the stones started falling around my ears. The stones in this house were layed by Scottish stone masons out of local rock and were on average 2 cubic feet of solid squared granite and at 240 pounds per cubic foot it would not have been comfortable to say the least.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Swallow said:


> For hand cut joinery why not give these a try. While not technically dove tails, they are wonderful ways of making drawer joints. This hutch was rescued from an old stone house built in 1894 that was destined for the wreaking ball. The hutch was built by a Scottish craftsman named Clinish and this was his 281st in a series, at least I think that it was as the No.281 and his name and date 1896 are written in big black letters on the bottom. I will be completely disassembling it for a complete restoration. I love the fact that he used hide glue as it's so easy to work with.
> 
> I also managed to snag all of the Oak stairs , banisters, newel posts, Balusters and baseboards, three floors worth no less and after refinishing they will look just fine out at the cottage. I was really under the gun as I only had one and a half weeks to get what I wanted out before the stones started falling around my ears. The stones in this house were layed by Scottish stone masons out of local rock and were on average 2 cubic feet of solid squared granite and at 240 pounds per cubic foot it would not have been comfortable to say the least.


Those are Knapp Joints, there was a machine patented by Charles Knapp to cut the joints. Late 1860s

Antique Knapp Joint furniture information Part 1


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Dan..

did you decide on a saw?


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

*Knapp joints*



rwyoung said:


> Those are Knapp Joints, there was a machine patented by Charles Knapp to cut the joints. Late 1860s
> 
> Antique Knapp Joint furniture information Part 1


Thanks so much for the link, I had no idea that they were machine made. At least I got the dates pretty much right and it's still a nice piece of work.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Dan..
> 
> did you decide on a saw?


I decided to go with the Veritas Dovetail Saw. I bought all three 14 tpi, 16 tpi and 20 tpi.

Veritas® Dovetail & Crosscut Saws - Lee Valley Tools

I am use to the western saw and thought why not. I installed a closet in Jasper this weekend and luckily had the saws in the truck and used them to cut the 3" pieces of melamine for the ledges. 

They cut really nice and I am looking forward to using them on the dovetails. I am just finishing up the table top for a friend and the bench is complete. Once this project is complete I will tackle the dovetails.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm looking hard at that set myself. Really interested to hear whatcha think of em. I already have a few Bridge City Tool works japanese style pull saws which are real beauties. However, I tend to be a bit heavy handed at times and those saws have really thin blades. I've been fortunate to not have bent (destroyed) any blades yet. I will tell ya that the flush cut saw they offer is just fantastic......

Received the low angle smoother I ordered the other day. Ordered the optional blades with it. One of the blades (38*) had a bit of rust on the cutter and the toothed blade had those pesky rusty thumb prints. I sent LV a note, just to let em know this might be something they would want to look into considering their reputation. I got a real nice note back from them offering to replace BOTH of the blades free of charge... 20 minutes on the worksharp cleaned up the 38 and a lil elbow grease cleaned up the toothed blade easy enough. I won't be asking for the freebies since there is really no need, but the fact that they offered was pretty impressive. Just a top notch outfit to deal with!!! Like I said before... good thing there isn't one nearby...*S*


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Swallow said:


> Thanks so much for the link, I had no idea that they were machine made. At least I got the dates pretty much right and it's still a nice piece of work.


To be clear, that style of joint was most likely machine cut but you could hand cut such a joint. 

It is also possible to hand cut joints similar to those from the IsoLoc templates by Leigh and similar templates from MLCS and Keller. 

Somewhere I have pictures of a "heart-tail". Instead of pins, they are hearts. The trick was to match up swept gouges to the radii of the heart and when cutting the pins use a drill to waste out most of the material then go back with the same gouges to clean up and match the radii.


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## david cooksey (Jun 3, 2011)

Buy a excellent set of wood chisels from Rockler, Woodcraft or someone like Lie-nielson

Dave


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