# Questions for the CNC guys



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

No, I still do not want a CNC. But I am curious about a lot of things in life, so I thought I'd pass a couple of questions along to you guys.

This is a side view of the design for one of my Easter Island head banks, and a front view. Then there is a head with a rough, very rough, idea of what the finished bank will look like. The bank will be 5 1/2" wide, which will be 11 pieces of 1/2" plywood. There will be 5 masters (as I call them), or patterns, or templates, whatever you want to call them. The odd width is so I can cut a 1/2" slot in the top, and both sides of that will be the same. 

How I will make this bank. The side view pattern will be glued to plywood, cut out with my scrollsaw, as close to the outer line as I can get it, then sanded to the final piece. That piece will be tacked to another piece of plywood that has been rough cut to shape, that routed out, and that will be my Plan B master, in case I screw up the original. I will then cut the original down to the next smaller master, rout that out, repeat until all 5 of my masters are done. Actually 6 masters, if you include the ears, which will be glued to the finished bank, using a kig to properly place them. The masters that will be hollow inside will have the center cut out leaving a 3/4" wall all around. These will be half done masters, because what I will do is to glue all five down, rout them so I have a 1" master, and those will be drilled for nail pilot holes, and used to rout out the pieces for the bank, which will be glued together, and viola, a bank. Somewhere along the line I will also cut a hole in the bottom to take money out.

OK, I got my final design sketched out on 1/4" graph paper, full size, in something less than an hour. I've sketched since I was a kid so might be faster at laying out a design then a lot of people. I will not include any glue setting time. I glue the design down, then cut my pieces out. I never did time how long it took to get all of the pieces for my masters cut out, but know I can do it in just a few hour. Then once the masters are ready, I can rough cut my pieces, rout them out, and glue them together in a glue-up jig. Not sure just how long it will take to rout these finished pieces out, but based on past experience, I'd say roughly under 2 hours, mostly depending on how much cutting is needed. Oh, I also did not include the time to drill nail pilot holes, which will be a one-time thing for each master.

OK, here goes. 
How long would it take to set up to cut 1 of these pieces with a CNC? 
How long would it take to set up for all 5 different pieces?
How long would it take to cut out 1 piece, from 1/2" plywood?
How long would it take to cut out all 11 pieces, all 1/2" plywood?

And, please don't tell me you can turn out piece after piece, all identical. I already know that, and I can also turn out piece after piece, all identical.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you can scan your sketch, then you can import the digital photo of it into Vcarve. Thanks to you drawing it on graph paper it would be easy to scale to exactly the size you want. There is a trace vector option that might be able to do a quick job of turning it into vectors. if not, you can quickly draw over your sketch to create the needed vectors. 

Each of the 5 unique pieces can be copied/edited from the initial master, then saved to their own layer so you can copy/edit the next one easily. Etc.. 

Once you have vector outlines of each piece, including the inside outline where the coins will end up, you can copy the duplicate ones, then lay them out on one sheet for efficient use of the material. It is easy to create toolpaths to profile cut through, around the outside and inside of each shape. Any shape that has an area/pocket you want to cut into but not through is just as quick using the pocket tool path. You can even quickly add 1/4" holes to each layer to help aligning them (with a short 1/4" dowel) when gluing them up. The holes can go through the inner layers, and half way through the two outer layers. 
If

I'm guessing, but as I'm very familiar with the drawing tools in Vcarve/Aspire it might take me 1/2 hour total to create all the needed vectors if I had your initial sketch. 

One piece, depending on which machine used, might take 2 minutes to cut around. A little more or maybe a lot less with an industrial machine. 2 minutes each for 11 pieces is 22 minutes. Shapes will be perfect. You might need to sand/trim off tabs that are used to hold the parts in place while being cut. 

While the parts are still on the CNC bed, you could additionally round over the outer edges of the outer pieces. 

Glue together, using short dowel pieces to help align all parts. Sand and finish. 

While you are trimming, gluing, sanding, finishing the first one a second can be being cut on the CNC using the same file.

There will be time you need to add for clamping down the plywood, booting up the PC that runs the CNC, homing the CNC, then zeroing out X, Y, and Z for the project being cut. Add some time at the end for cleaning up the CNC and surrounding area.  Add some more time to upload/share images of and VCarve files for the design on your favorite web forums. 

If I was going to make just one, I doubt I'd use the CNC to cut the parts. If I was going to make two or more I definitely would take the upfront time to draw it up, then cut them all out using the CNC. 

4D


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Interesting. And I still don't want a CNC. LOL I don't bother with dowels for gluing up tho, a glue-up jig, will align all the pieces nicely, if accurate - and I make sure mine are accurate, don't want to redo work. I hit my pieces with my ROS after the glue has set and good to go.

How much would a rig like that cost? I'm thinking way more than I have invested in my entire shop, including tools. I would say cost of the shop itself, tools, and in stock materials, comes to less then about $1200, as is, not counting materials cost over the years.

I take it you save all of this on your computer, so you can go back later and duplicate something. I just hang my masters on the wall. Oh yeah, any notes I have on a build I write on the masters, how many of each piece, and anything else I can think of, hard to lose notes doing that.

Thanks.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

JOAT said:


> ..... "_No, I still do not want a CNC_"
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> ...


Ever notice when you don't like a song for so long
after a while you end up diggin' it?

For instance, me? I could never stand the Talking Heads
until I actually listened to the lyrics and found them kinda
cool, but offbeat & corky. I dig them now.

JOATs gettin a cnc... I'm tellin ya


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

A CNC can be had for a few hundred dollars to 90k and up. A kit you have to assemble or a CNC that requires a crane to drop into your shop though the temporarily removed roof. 

You know you want one, Joat. For someone who spends so much time in a specific forum your "don't want" claim falls shallow. 

4D


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

UglySign said:


> Ever notice when you don't like a song for so long
> after a while you end up diggin' it?
> 
> For instance, me? I could never stand the Talking Heads
> ...


What? You're going to give me a CNC? I really appreciate the thought, but being as how I don't have a boat, I really don't need an anchor. 

PS: JOAT is NOT getting a CNC.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

We should start a pool. Pick a date when Joat decides he's getting a CNC.

He is intrigued and wants one, but now he's just trying to live up to his past reputation of bashing them.

Let's face it ---- JOAT WANTS A CNC !!!!


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Oh I miss the scroll sawin days. Im not sure
if I'd go back to it. Maybe down the road. Not into
following the lines anymore. I like land, solid ground
no planes or boats.

You're looking at your roof, aren't ya?:wink:


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> We should start a pool. Pick a date when Joat decides he's getting a CNC.
> 
> He is intrigued and wants one, but now he's just trying to live up to his past reputation of bashing them.
> 
> Let's face it ---- JOAT WANTS A CNC !!!!


h'yeah so does Rick

Does JOAT have insulation?


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Although there are many things a CNC can do, that Joat (and the rest of us) can also do, there are many things a CNC can do precisely and repeatedly that just aren't practical/possible to try and do without one. I regularly do joinery for my students that I doubt anyone ever thought of doing, with or without one. Internal/invisible overlapping tenons on the midpoint of angled, long circular tapered legs where a shelf bisects them is a recent example. 

4D


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

You right JOAT you do not want a CNC 
1. they cost a lot money
2. most of the process is done on a computor
From what I have read these are 2 thing you are not interested in doing!


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## cjhilinski (Apr 25, 2017)

An alternative no one has mentioned is making a mold and using casting resin (if plastic is acceptable instead of wood). If you already have the master, it's certainly a lot quicker to do molds. A CNC is just another tool and just another method of doing something in the shop. I make a product that includes a cribbage-board-style scoretrack with 42 holes. I used to spend hours standing at the drill press drilling those holes. Now I load up a piece of wood on the CNC and let it drill all the holes while I'm doing something else. I used to sand my product with a random orbit sander using eight grits and about 10 minutes per grit. I mounted my RO sander to the CNC and it handles the sanding while I'm doing something else.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Good idea CJ !!!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

UglySign said:


> Does JOAT have insulation?


Joat's a tough old bird. He don"t need no stenkin' insulation!!!!


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

cjhilinski said:


> I mounted my RO sander to the CNC and it handles the sanding while I'm doing something else.


Have you considered mounting a Makita 9471 to the CNC?










Dig into the grain some.... grain some Aluminuminuminum too.

Cant wait to try that.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Semipro said:


> You right JOAT you do not want a CNC
> 1. they cost a lot money
> 2. most of the process is done on a computor
> From what I have read these are 2 thing you are not interested in doing!


Yep. I'm saving my money for a mail order bride. Not one of those young ones tho, I'm going for older, like around 21. And don't want anything to do with a computer operated machine. 

And, yes, I do have insulation. But I'm working on losing weight.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

JOAT said:


> Yep. I'm saving my money for a mail order bride. Not one of those young ones tho, I'm going for older, like around 21. And don't want anything to do with a computer operated machine.


Consider the inital, service and maintenance costs. CNC's bust bits not chops
and most of all you get the curves you want.

okie dokie then


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

UglySign said:


> Consider the inital, service and maintenance costs. CNC's bust bits not chops
> and most of all you get the curves you want.
> 
> okie dokie then


I agree. The service and maintenance cost of mail order brides can be outrageous! 

4D


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

You name me one CNC that can cook, keep house, bring me coffee, go fishing with me, carry materials into my shop, and keep me warm, and I'll reconsider a mail order bride.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

JOAT said:


> You name me one CNC that can cook, keep house, bring me coffee, go fishing with me, carry materials into my shop, and keep me warm, and I'll reconsider a mail order bride.


OK... I give up. get a mail order bride WITH a CNC, best of all worlds.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

UglySign said:


> OK... I give up. get a mail order bride WITH a CNC, best of all worlds.


Wow. Never thought of that one, a mail order bride with a boat, complete with custom anchor. The best of all worlds indeed.
>


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Good luck finding a bride, mail order or not, that will do all the things you listed without expecting you to do a long list of things for her. Slavery is still outlawed most places. 

My CNCs, on the other hand, do their best to do for me exactly what I ask them to.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

4DThinker said:


> Although there are many things a CNC can do, that Joat (and the rest of us) can also do, there are many things a CNC can do precisely and repeatedly that just aren't practical/possible to try and do without one. I regularly do joinery for my students that I doubt anyone ever thought of doing, with or without one. Internal/invisible overlapping tenons on the midpoint of angled, long circular tapered legs where a shelf bisects them is a recent example.
> 4D


OK, still curious, still gonna ask questions, still not gonna get a CNC. Yeah, I understand a CNC can be very useful, and if I had a production shop, I would definitely want one, possibly even more, but would hire someone to work them instead of doing it myself. But, I do not have a production shop, and one would just take the fun out of woodworking for me; besides not wanting one in the first place. That said, how much would a machine cost (ballpark figure is fine, does't need to be down to the penny) like the one you're talking about? I am assuming it is a commercial type, not a hobby type. Could you post a photo or two of these joints? Always interested in things like that, even tho I doubt seriously I would even attempt anything like that. A machine like that, about how long would it take an average person to become competent on one? About how long to be competent on a hobby machine? 

Yeah, I know I put out a mixed signal on this, but I am curious, about a lot of things, even CNC machines. I am curious about how a Lamborgini is put together, but if I had the money to buy one I wouldn't even look at one, instead I'd hunt down a 1960s Corvette coupe. No I wouldn't, I'd get my 1969 VW Beetle worked on instead - a 400 to 600 hp upgrade should do the trick. 

Final thought, if I got a CNC, then I would feel obligated not to poke fun at you guys. Can't have that.
>


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Joat clearly enjoys setting these up as some form of a " its stupid to have a CNC, I can do it better with a sharp stick, a piece of paper, and some sanding discs".

SO for this challenge Joat selected an incredibly ugly, simple piece of art work so it would be simpler to manufacture.

Here is my challenge to JOAT.

How long for you to make this Violin and Grapes piece with your band saw and sketch pad.. now don't weany out and say you don't want to make it, just calculate how long it would take you to do it with your tools. This an honesty test, my guess is that you will pass on taking the test.

Joat. the violin is not a production piece. The CNC and associated software, in this case, Aspire affords the artist the amazing ability to compose a piece digitally. Now I am an reasonably accomplished and somewhat successful artist and would challenge you that I can probably sketch, paint and draw circle around you. And this software and the CNC is a far better and more efficient means to design, layout, ultimately build structurally complicated compositions. 

I am betting the folks on this forum could dump hundreds of designs on this post that would simply not be possible with your pencil and band saw in any amount of hours. 

So since you seem to enjoy challenging all of us, I challenge you to make this violin and grapes piece.. it is 24" x 48". Ready,,,, go. the clock is ticking..


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

8 years but I may not live that long. :laugh2:


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

@JOAT
You need need to read your own signature at the bottom of you posts
( it goes like this)
I don't build to meet your approval, I build to meet mine.
Remember, when I tell how I do something, that does not mean I recommend you do it my way. Different backgrounds, experiences; what works for me, may not for you.

Maybe other people feel the same way about the way you-do things
I personal wish if you do not have anything to say that is constructive that you keep it to yourself
I get it, you do not want or need a CNC machine


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Scottart said:


> Joat clearly enjoys setting these up as some form of a " its stupid to have a CNC, I can do it better with a sharp stick, a piece of paper, and some sanding discs".
> 
> SO for this challenge Joat selected an incredibly ugly, simple piece of art work so it would be simpler to manufacture.
> 
> ...


Nah, I put head up there because I was curious about how long it would take to make it. Really. I figured if I could do it a CNC certainly could. I didn't realize you guys could more or less trace the design onto your computers. And I don't recall saying it was stupid to have a CNC. It would be stupid for ME to have one, because I don't want to mess with one, so would never bother to learn how. And I already knew it would not be possible for me to do everything a CNC could do, or it would take me so long I would probably never complete one.

As far as being an artist, I do not consider myself one, just have sketched freehand all my life, and don't intend to stop. I can be pretty good, if I apply myself, but by that time I would likely be bored and move on.

But, on to your fiddle and grapes. Well, sketches would definitely be involved. But the bandsaw would not, except to hold my coffee cup. Pencils, carving chisels and knives, carving mallets, would definitely be involved, and probably extra pieces of wood for restarting after a screwup. But I've done work about as intricate as that, so yes, I could do that. Likely not quite as smooth and all, but doable. As for length of time, I'll go by how long is has taken me to make my banjo - right now I am probably at around 9 years, and still not finished. So, I figure it would take me around 20 years to finish the fiddle and grapes, if I push myself a bit, . I am capable of doing it, just not enthused, if I were enthused, I would say somewhere inside of 6 months. But have not been in the shop for a good while now, and not sure when I will be able to, so even if I wanted to do that, banjo has priority over that, and too many other things with priority over the banjo, in and out of the shop. It would be interesting tho, so if I can find some nice wood, I'll lay it out, the same size, and let you know if I eventually get around to it.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Theo I tend to echo what Semipro said to you and it includes everyone else reading this to keep the remarks friendly. Theo you are asking some good questions and there may be non-posting members and guests reading this thread who would like knowing the answers so as long as we remember all the rules here then there is no reason not to keep this thread going. Let's continue to keep it as an exchange of information.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

No prob.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Theo I tend to echo what Semipro said to you and it includes everyone else reading this to keep the remarks friendly. Theo you are asking some good questions and there may be non-posting members and guests reading this thread who would like knowing the answers so as long as we remember all the rules here then there is no reason not to keep this thread going. Let's continue to keep it as an exchange of information.


Well, I for one hope that im not offending anyone. Obviously Im new here this past year
and just try to poke a lil, but not that much. I can see Theo/JOAT isnt getting a cnc but I
have to rub it in anyways. Same as I do for Rick/Rain Man 2.0 and his insulation/cnc needs/wants.
I think I know where I can draw a line. Some incredible stuff can be made by CNC as well
as by hand. It all boils down to personal gratification and the accomplishment one makes.

I find this to be a really neat forum to be part of. Hope it continues.

Anyways... Merry Christmas to all and look forward to a Happy & Safe New Year.

>​


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

UglySign said:


> Well, I for one hope that im not offending anyone. I can see Theo/JOAT isnt getting a cnc but Ihave to rub it in anyways. ]


Ah found this thread again. Good, because I still have some questions. 
Not offending me. Yeah, just not my cuppa.

OK, I don't know what the differences between Vector and Aspire, which is basically immaterial. But the fiddle and grapes was done with Aspire. I can see where that all could be cut out by a CNC, but I'm wondering if the rounded bottom and tops of the grapes were done too. If so, could the same work be done on an entry machine, or would you need to step up to a higher class machine? Just what can be done on an entry machine, besides sign making? I think that's pretty much it.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

CNC does certainly have its share of nomenclature, like several other woodworking areas, and is something that is useful to learn to help understand the process, and be able to clearly ask or answer questions.

A *Vector* is basically a curve. It can be made up of straight lines, arcs, or bezier curves. Basically, anything that can be represented by mathematical formulas (you DO NOT need to know the math - thats what your drawing program is for!). Say for instance @JOAT has a hand drawn sketch that he wants to machine on his future CNC. He could scan his sketch, this turns it into a Bitmap - which is a bunch of different pixels. If you zoom into this, you can see every square pixel. A drawing program such as Inkscape, Adobe Illustrator, Corel Draw or some of the CNC specific programs such as ArtCAM, VCarve, Aspire or Fusion 360 can import this this bitmap image, and then either automatically (with different degrees of success) or manually allow you to create VECTORS to replace the bitmap image. The advantage of vectors is that they can be resized smoothly and with no loss of precision, and they can be used to develop a tool path for the CNC.

*Vectric* is a software company, that produces software such as Cut2D (~$200), Vcarve Pro (~600), and *Aspire* (~$2000). These have different price points and different capabilities. 

The 3D surface analog of a vector is known as a *Relief*. They may be created by some of the programs above, or they can be purchased like clip art. Many files used for 3D printing can be used, and there are online collections of free ones as well. The usual format is a STL, but can be in many other forms. Vectric has its own proprietary format, as does ArtCAM, but owners of these programs can usually import or export in these other formats as well. 

A relief like the fiddle and grapes is difficult to create and requires both artistry and skill to produce. Some programs can create a relief from a photograph, but these usually require some manipulation to look right. A special form of bitmap where each bit shade of gray translates directly into a height will convert and look much better.

Generally, any CNC router can carve both vector based or relief based images, it is the CAM program that creates the toolpaths that needs to be able to handle the format, the CNC hardware just does as its told. If its told to move in X, Y and Z simultaneously, it will.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow. Don't know if I am informed, or confused. But thanks anyway. I'll have to ponder this some, but may just be out of questions.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Great info Richard . How I’d like to meet you and your machine in person


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Joat

that is a 15 minute carve with a chainsaw... get a chainsaw.. no glue up, no tracing... fast..


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Chainsaws can be fun. Sanding the work when the chainsaw is done NEVER is.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Sanding anything is no fun.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Great info Richard . How I’d like to meet you and your machine in person


If you’re ever near the Denver area, I’d be happy to meet with you*. Too late on the extrusions though, went a few weeks ago and picked up the last two 1m pieces of the big ones that they had - enough to extend my machine to 4x8 sometime in the future. 

We can talk about how I insulated my shop (in Colorado, above 6400 feet (1950m) ), so I can work in there even when it is below zero (F) outside! That cost much less than even my CNC.

I might even be done modifying my machine. Just finished replacing 2 relatively weak parts (3/8 thick plate pieces) with a 1/2 thick, 4 inch x 4 inch piece of angle. I don’t like any flex. :grin:

Next up is redoing spoil board with embedded aluminum t-track. My milled in t-track failed when I was trying to take out a little bow in a 1 1/2 thick glued up maple counter I was salvaging. 

*Invitation extends to anyone on this forum interested in CNC (or not interested @JOAT)!


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Scottart said:


> that is a 15 minute carve with a chainsaw... get a chainsaw.. no glue up, no tracing... fast..


Give me 15 minutes with a chainsaw and I would be lucky to have a few of my limbs left. That’s why I built a CNC- no carving talent.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Chainsaws are not only precision woodworking tools, they are loads of fun. I've got two now, both electric, don't need to crank them to start. You guys 'sand' after using one? Must not be doing it right then.
:grin:


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

*more chainsawing..*

todays chainsaw piece. lots of tools involved here.... and much sanding to go..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Scottart said:


> todays chainsaw piece. lots of tools involved here.... and much sanding to go..


Wowsers ! Now that’s impressive


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Scottart said:


> todays chainsaw piece. lots of tools involved here.... and much sanding to go..


A prime example of why God invented chainsaws. Also why He invented teenagers - so you could hire one to do the sanding.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Nice work Scott. I'm curious, are you sanding that by hand or have you figured out a machine to do it?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, ran across this looking for inspiration for one of my own projects. Interesting, and likely something a lot of you are unfamiliar with. Might be of use to some of you, or not. Definitely not even remotely close to what I was looking for.
Digital Fabrication for Designers: CNC Cut Wood Joinery


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You save a lot on router bits using that chainsaw!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, still running across weird stuff. This basics page ought to help someone.
https://makezine.com/2014/03/21/cnc-routing-basics-toolpaths-and-feeds-n-speeds/


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Nice work Scott. I'm curious, are you sanding that by hand or have you figured out a machine to do it?


I use die grinders, dremels, palm sanders, angle grinders. and in the very end I hand sand parts of it.. So lots of machines, but none that are the answer all to all the parts that need sanding.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

JOAT said:


> OK, ran across this looking for inspiration for one of my own projects. Interesting, and likely something a lot of you are unfamiliar with. Might be of use to some of you, or not. Definitely not even remotely close to what I was looking for.
> Digital Fabrication for Designers: CNC Cut Wood Joinery


A year or so ago I saw a site that had CNC joinery, but nothing like what was in that blog. This one is interesting.
I made a collapsible beer bottle carrier with blind joints and wedge joints. Got the idea from one of Shop Bots web pages.
Made a few changes in the overall shape/design. It was fun to play with. Made a great party gift.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

subtleaccents said:


> A year or so ago I saw a site that had CNC joinery, but nothing like what was in that blog. This one is interesting.
> I made a collapsible beer bottle carrier with blind joints and wedge joints. Got the idea from one of Shop Bots web pages.
> Made a few changes in the overall shape/design. It was fun to play with. Made a great party gift.


Got pictures? Or a link? That sounds like something I would like to see.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I can tell ...... Joat is really starting to look into a CNC. Just don't get a "toy" - even starting out. Like a lot of members here have said - get the 2nd machine first. There's a lot of help here if you ask. 

He's getting closer!!!


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I can tell ...... Joat is really starting to look into a CNC. Just don't get a "toy" - even starting out. Like a lot of members here have said - get the 2nd machine first. There's a lot of help here if you ask.
> 
> He's getting closer!!!


I think Theo might get a CNC before Rick get's his insulation - just sayin'


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, OK. I'm checking into them. Thinking about getting this one. Supposed to be top of the line in China.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The only problem I see with that abacus model is the limited memory storage. 10 lines of g-code before you have to reset it seems like it will get old very fast.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

vchiarelli said:


> I think Theo might get a CNC before Rick get's his insulation - just sayin'


I keep hoping Rick realizes a cnc doesn’t need to be kept warm - it will work in the cold. A little antifreeze in the water if it’s liqid cooled and he’s golden. He can use a ‘spy’ in the shop to keep an eye on it if *he’s* cold, but the machine won’t care.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Getting closer!!!!!

Of course, once you do get one you'll have to be nice to us going forward.

Does that abacus use AC or DC?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I keep hoping Rick realizes a cnc doesn’t need to be kept warm - it will work in the cold. A little antifreeze in the water if it’s liqid cooled and he’s golden. He can use a ‘spy’ in the shop to keep an eye on it if he’s cold, but the machine won’t care. {quote Balloon Engineer}


But Richard - how does frozen wood cut?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Hey, you want to upgrade, just buy another abacus, and plug it in. Repeat until you have enough for whatever you're using it on. I think it runs on rice wine.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Rice wine may make good antifreeze for the liquid cooled spindle. Of course at my house no wine goes wasted on machines.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> I think Theo might get a CNC before Rick get's his insulation - just sayin'


God I hope not, but I gotta say its not looking good :lol:


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> God I hope not, but I gotta say its not looking good :lol:


lets start a 50/50 pool to guess who will get a CNC first and on what date. Winner gets half, the other half goes to who ever buys one first, JOAT, or Rick. Ill kick in the first $3.45.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Scottart said:


> lets start a 50/50 pool to guess who will get a CNC first and on what date. Winner gets half, the other half goes to who ever buys one first, JOAT, or Rick. Ill kick in the first $3.45.


OK, I decided to start saving for one immediately, so I'm likely to first. I had about 5 pennies in my change today, and I'm going to start saving all my pennies for a CNC. I figure I get change about 300 days a year, and at 5 cents a day, that would give me $15 saved per year. Should have enough saved up in no time at that rate.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

honesttjohn said:


> But Richard - how does frozen wood cut?


Well, if they are using CNC routers for carving ice, I imagine frozen wood would carve well, and keep bits nice and cool






Come on @RainMan 2.0 my money is on you! Gotta hurry, @JOAT is saving...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll match Scott's $$.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Rick needs a road trip. Here's some ideas for border issues? :nerd:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Lmao, too funny ! :lol:

Hey , I hope that gantry straightens out , as it looks a little crooked lol


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Well, if they are using CNC routers for carving ice, I imagine frozen wood would carve well, and keep bits nice and cool
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=32EmwwKUdZQ
> 
> Come on @RainMan 2.0 my money is on you! Gotta hurry, @JOAT is saving...


ok, I am going to cut out some Lake ice and try that ICe Carving trick, sell the results out on the highway, and donate it to the JOAT / Rainman fund..


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, you guys are just going to have to bite the boolit, I am not going to the dark side, I am not going to get a CNC. Thought about it, been wanting to start selling on Etsy, but if I had a CNC I would feel obligated to spend a lot of time in the shop, and that would mean a lot of work. If I wanted to work, I'd go get a job. A lot of time in the shop, would also mean less time coming up with ideas and designs for stuff. That all is just not me. Still not got back in the shop, but soon, and in the meantime designing stuff, mostly cane handles, up the wazoo. But, also designing a power chair, don't actually need one, but figure they'd let me in the pick your parts junkyard, where they wouldn't let a UTV in; but it will be functional as a power chair also, except gas engine, no electric motor. Right now designing a new holder, with can, for my paper shredder. Then there is a custom laminated wood stock for an air rifle. Finishing up a 10 round magazine for a Daisy .22LR rifle, model 2212. Designing bed risers for my bed. Getting all my design stuff, et al, organized. Making air rifle field targets. Setting up a new metal etching station. Finishing my banjo. Finishing my scratch .22 rifle build. Finishing my stock on my Marlin ultimate squirrel rifle. Making a harp. Shopping for a Suburban, or van, to convert into a small camper; then converting it. And I can't remember what all else. So, even if I wanted a CNC, I wouldn't have the time to mess with one. 

So, my $15 per year savings will be re-purposed, probably for a Mississippi steamboat cruise. They are better than an ocean cruise, because if one sinks, you at least will likely not have the possibility of sharks in the water, there is a lot of boat traffic on the river, so it is likely you would get fished out rather quickly, and if nothing else, you can see the shores, and should be able to swim ashore relatively easily.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Theo,

You can spend as much time as you want designing and making files while it's cutting. It's like having an assistant that does good work and doesn't talk or demand certain hours, OR a paycheck. Best of both worlds. Plus the finished product is exceptional compared to "hand made". 

You need to go visit Shopbot in Raleigh one day. 

The dark side is calling your name.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

honesttjohn said:


> Theo,
> 
> You can spend as much time as you want designing and making files while it's cutting. It's like having an assistant that does good work and doesn't talk or demand certain hours, OR a paycheck. Best of both worlds. Plus the finished product is exceptional compared to "hand made".
> 
> ...


Ah, but I don't want an assistant. Period. And I'd still have to pay for a CNC. Worst of both worlds. Plus, I can't say hand made, if it was made by a CNC. What the Hell is Shopbot? Well, I don't really care, because my double barrel elephant gun isn't ready, and I'm not going to Raleigh without it. It is not an elephant caliber, because there are no elephants around here, it's a smaller caliber, in case their are any pygmy elephants in the area. The dark side just pronounced my name wrong.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Joat I have a nice abacus for sale... $15 but I aint waiting a year for it the way your saving pennies


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

UglySign said:


> Joat I have a nice abacus for sale... $15 but I aint waiting a year for it the way your saving pennies


If it is battery powered I might be interested, depending on how it looks, otherwise not interested.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The best abaci run on solar. Stay away from any that require batteries! Those tend to overheat and explode.


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