# Running Wood Between Bit and Fence...?



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I am facing a piece of molding and find that there won't be enough flat wood to run the wood on the outside of the bit. It seems that if I run the wood in the opposite direction I should be able to run it between the bit and the fence...

Should/shouldn't I...? Precautions...? Other ideas...?

Thanks in advance...Nick


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Check out this thread, Nick. That same question was just brought up! Short answer, DON'T DO IT!!

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/38700-safe.html


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Nick, the wood will be the same size on either side of the bit so why do you feel this would make a difference? The answer is NO, you never trap the wood between the bit and the fence for an edge cut unless you want to test your health insurance.

Some more information is needed before we can suggest an alternate method.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

Nickp said:


> I am facing a piece of molding and find that there won't be enough flat wood to run the wood on the outside of the bit. It seems that if I run the wood in the opposite direction I should be able to run it between the bit and the fence...
> 
> Should/shouldn't I...? Precautions...? Other ideas...?
> 
> Thanks in advance...Nick


Attach it to a manageable sized piece that's taller than it with double sided carpet tape, stick another piece of scrap atop the backing piece which will ride along the fence, and run it through normally.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

If you have a drill press, you could hook up one of these and run it between a fence and the drum.

That would be similar to your router based solution, but less likely to kill someone should things go awry.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Nickp said:


> I am facing a piece of molding and find that there won't be enough flat wood to run the wood on the outside of the bit. It seems that if I run the wood in the opposite direction I should be able to run it between the bit and the fence...
> 
> Should/shouldn't I...? Precautions...? Other ideas...?
> 
> Thanks in advance...Nick


Picture here may help. Don't quite understand "enough flat wood".
Short answer is no, need more info to find the right answer.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I am making a guess that there are no flats left at the edges. It's better, if you can, to leave a little bit of flat at the edges and cut them off after.


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

"Ditto" to everything that has been said - I have always said that the smartest man is the man that knows what he does not know?


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Lesson learned...thank you all for sharing your wisdom...and the additional thread info...especially for a better way to do it. Using another piece of wood to give the needed surface area will work...obvious value to ask before do...thank you...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

rwbaker said:


> "Ditto" to everything that has been said - I have always said that the smartest man is the man that knows what he does not know?


Looks like my "don't know" list is longer than I thought...thank you...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Nick you have to see a machine pick up a piece of wood and throw it out the door before you can understand how dangerous that is, on a large spindle moulder/shaper and if you have a power feed then tricks like feeding backwards can be done as the power feed will hang onto it but "trapping the wood between the fence and the cutter is a never do it ever thing". When I was an apprentice and about two feet high then my old boss stuck a big board into a double header thicknesser and the machine grabbed it once it was half way in, this old machine had a lot of raw power and the board must have been over 70 kilos (hardwood and 15feet long and so heavy that I as a young lad could not have picked it up), the machine threw it pas my boss and 100 feet into the workshop and stuck it into a rack of boards so hard that it took an hour to drag it out, all my boss could say was. "why didn't you hang onto it" as if I had of actually had a chance of doing that, this type of a machine is not the same as a router table but a router at 28,000rpm+ can also throw wood if the cutter gets hold of it, there is always a direction of feed, that is you have to feed into the cutters blade, and that is reversed if the cutter is on the other side, any operator should always stand away from a path where a throw back would go to avoid the throw back going into the operators body, modern saws and planners have a better design to prevent them from throwing wood but router tables will still do it and trapping the wood the way you have suggested is a short-cut to the Hospital and just too dangerous to attempt. NGM


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Nickp said:


> Lesson learned...thank you all for sharing your wisdom...and the additional thread info...especially for a better way to do it. Using another piece of wood to give the needed surface area will work...obvious value to ask before do...thank you...


It's a good day when we've saved a finger or two!! :yes2:


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Thank you Neville...the original was to feed the wood into the bit but so many of you have cautioned never to place wood between bit and fence that I will absolutely stay away from it...thank you also for the anecdotal application...

Wood projects is a new hobby for me and I have so much to learn regarding tools and their use...to have the level of feedback that I have received on just one topic makes me the fortunate one...


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

I do from time to time, there is no danger if you take some precautions:
1) move the wood from left to right.
2)make very small pass (+ / - 1 or 2 mm max)
3)pressurize the wood against the fence.

Daniel


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Nick, not long after I built my table, and was brand new to a router table, I did that "no no" and I launched a piece of wood (luckily away from me) and it hit a can of stain I had on the shelf. The can had a serious dent in it. But I didn't find out till the next morning that the can had a hole in it too. Had a puddle of stain on my work bench that was under the shelf that held the can of stain. Hate to think of what kind of hole I would have had in me, being I'm not made of steel!! ;o)


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

If you had this accident, it is certainly because you passed the wood from right to left and not left to right


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

No Daniel, I am a metal cutting machine mechanic by trade, and went to school to be a machinist and did machinist work earlier in my career, so using what I new about climb milling and such, and yet I was a rookie at the router table, I thought it would be better in that situation to go left to right, instead of the normal right to left when you are in front of the bit. I got just about halfway through and the bit grabbed the wood and shot it and my push stick out. Good thing I was using a push stick and featherboards, and I was in front of the table, otherwise it would have been ugly. 

Sure Daniel, if you follow your list of precautions, you might get lucky. But I like my fingers too much. So I'll leave my luck (or lack there of) for the lottery and Casino's!! ;o) There's always another way to skin that cat!!


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I've done what Daniel is talking about and took all the precautions. It was before I joined the forum. I was making acrylic panels for a sump filter I was building and needed the widths to be exactly the same to insure a good glue up. Everything was going smoothly till the last piece and something made the piece jump and it caught the bit in a bind and then it jumped violently. Luckily it settled settled back down against the fence but it scared me enough to never try it again. The thought of having sharp, pointed pieces of plexiglass flying at you at high speed with make you get religion quick.

GCG


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

I use this method when I have a hollow wood. It is simpler than the use of a planer. A great mason rule as fence. The concave part of the stock against this rule and I gradually route the convex part. When the convex part is OK, the concave part is routed. 
And this way, we are certain to have two straight sides and perfectly parallel.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I don't get it, why not use the right tool for the job, a Jointer if you don't have one use a table saw with some sand paper stuck to the saw blade...Why take a chance with the wrong tool for the job..


===


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

... or setup a jointer fence on the router table or bench press table and sanding drum.

GCG


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

because my planer does not have tables 3 M length
With this system, the two ends of the workpiece are sliding against the fence and the piece is stable.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

sante, just curious ... would it be possible to set up your table saw a similar way with the really long fence? then it would essentially be ripping a thin piece off one edge, which i'm guessing would be blessed by the community (since ripping wood is a supported activity for a table saw)


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Santé said:


> I use this method when I have a hollow wood. It is simpler than the use of a planer. A great mason rule as fence. The concave part of the stock against this rule and I gradually route the convex part. When the convex part is OK, the concave part is routed.
> And this way, we are certain to have two straight sides and perfectly parallel.


Hi Daniel. 
I can see that feeding the timber that way, you are still maintaining the correct direction of cut [into the cutter]. 

My only concern would be that, if the timber moved, even a fraction, away from the fence there is a chance of the cutter catching the timber and causing an accident?

What do you use to hold the timber tight against the fence?


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

For Chris:
Yes it can be done at the table saw but with a poorer finish.
My friend Champy has an adjustable frame in front of his table router with a long fence and slides his melamine panels (for cabinets) between the fence and bit to remove small "fragments" due to sawing but in front of the bit, but it is the same

Jor James: 1 moment for tranlation !


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

For James:
yes, of course it can happen if you cut too much wood but with 1 or 2 mm there is no danger with normal pressure against the fence


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Nick, as I am sure you already know; "Nick" is the nickname (no pun intended) for a small cut. If you are new to router use, make yourself a good rule: Never feed wood between fence and cutter. Some people do it and don't get hurt, others of us have seen the sad repercussions when someone tries it. Daniel quite possibly has a technique that is risky unless done very carefully and I am sure his experience makes him able to do it safely. But, just because he has had success with it - does not mean you should try this extremely risky technique! Mike and Bob said it dead-on right. It could strain your health insurance and it is using the wrong tool. You wouldn't brush your teeth with a wood rasp. Don't let risky behavior cause you to adopt a new nickname: Gash.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Or 'Fingers' as used to call attention to the lack of same...


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Or 'Fingers' as used to call attention to the lack of same...


I'm not the only one to use this system, here is a feather board another friend (JFT68) for the same job


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

In this photo,(from an other friend) it is the same situation but not with a router (more dangerous) 
in red, the points where security should be increased.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Daniel.
> I can see that feeding the timber that way, you are still maintaining the correct direction of cut [into the cutter].
> 
> My only concern would be that, if the timber moved, even a fraction, away from the fence there is a chance of the cutter catching the timber and causing an accident?
> ...


James-
Good hint at the answer to that...

Daniel-

In my opinion, missing from your drawings and further on in your picture of the shaper process (shivers)... There's a missing piece. What is missing is the router fence and shaper fence. Each left on their respective tables would shroud the bit and control depth of cut.

With the fences still in place, then I can see using a feather board or "guide" to be used as an auxillery fence (persay). Without the fence, if the cutter grabs into the work, no more needed to be said. That is why, usually, if a "guide" it is usually short in height, like a short fence on a high / low fence.... so if something happens it can climb over the guide (like when doing a bevel against a short fence) and away from the cutter... and hopefully not be trapped and shot backwards.

You sometimes use the same kind of material guide on a jointer. Note, you mentioned jointer, then planer being too short? Two different things right? In a jointer, you have an infeed table that is set to depth of cut, then the cutter and outfeed table are set to the same height as each other. The work slides along the infeed, hits the cutter, then is supported by the outfeed. 

Same technique used in a router table jointer fence. 2 piece auxillery fence face. First infeed section against the fence base. 2nd outfeed section shimmed out from the fence base to determine depth of cut. Cutter is set to a line flush with the second outffed fence section. (just like a jointer table)

On both those, jointer and router, a longer fence, infeed and outfeed support will help out.

The above fences shrouding the blade... The closer your shrouding to your cutter, the less tearout you get. It is also just a common sense safety thing. Why exposed yourself to an unshrouded cutter spinning at high rpm? Fences on both also set a controlled depth of cut.

Table saw jointing? I use 4 different styled TS jointer jigs. 

- First one is Plywood, 8' long, with a straight 1-1/2"x3/4" stock tacked on one edge. Work goes on top of plywood base and against the straight edge. Toggle clamps mounted to the straight edge help hold the work onto it. Jig goes to the rip fence. Blade cuts the work. So the jig and work are between the fence and blade. Alternat way to use this one is the clamp the jig to the fence and use the jig as an auxillery fence.

- Second jig is just a piece of 8' x 3/4" ply with toggle clamps. Jig goes against the fence with the work riding side-saddle beside the jig held like an outrigger. Rip fence and blade is set to the outside edge of the jig. Blade cuts work. Second pass, work is moved back towards the jig again... repeated until work is jointed to the jig. This jig is probably the safest and fast to use, once you learn how to use it.

- Third Jig That I came up with.. Piece of 8' x 3/4" plywood. Two pieces tacked to it to form an "L". First half of the edge face is cut 3/16" less than the rear half. 1/4" dado blade cut into the center of that face, like a zero clearance insert. "L" is clamped to the fence. Fence set so left edge of the blade is set to the rear face of the jig. Work goes along first face, gets cut by blade, cut edge supported by the rear face of the jig. 

- Fourth Jig is one I use on sliding tables and large sleds. It's pretty much just a basic long taper jig. Straight edge, stop block on each end, material hold down. Mounted to sliding table, work into jig. Cut.

I also have 4' versions of these. I have more jigs and such that I joint on... but enough said about that. These may not be "correct" or "the way"... but rather just some things I feel comfortable doing. I was taught some of them and others came up with out of necessity. There may be better ways.

The OP- IMHO, best common sense comment posted, I second on... Use a sacrifice piece to attach your work to, to make it easier and safer to work with. There's a lot of work (including moulding) that I'll tool, then trim to size off what was a longer piece of stock.

There is a place and time for the previous mentioned techniques, but they really aren't what you need to do for what you want to make. Right?


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Please Mike makes shorter answers because I have a lot of translation difficulties and so many things I do not understand.

I will say jointer, not planer. I know the difference and I have on my router table an adjustable output fence to compensate the wood removed.
When you pass the wood between fence and bit, there is no problem because the side where the wood is removed is not used to guide the piece.
You must keep the wood firmly against the fence because the cutting action of the bit try to get the wood away of the fence.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

For illustrate what I say, on this picture, the left side of my fence.
As you can see, it is adjustable and it is in this picture set 2mm further forward of the right side


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Daniel you have put a lot of thought into making your method work for you. But the only way I would recommend that to someone would be to trap the board between two fences and make sure to feed the correct direction.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Daniel you have put a lot of thought into making your method work for you. But the only way I would recommend that to someone would be to trap the board between two fences and make sure to feed the correct direction.


Agreed with Charles. (<-- Shorter answer.)

I apologize that I do not speak French. I wish I did to explain what I mean to you. You are correct in that my post does not translate well with online translators.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Santé said:


> For illustrate what I say, on this picture, the left side of my fence.
> As you can see, it is adjustable and it is in this picture set 2mm further forward of the right side


I love this fence! The geometry that ensures it stays parallel is excellent! Something like this will probably be the basis for my fence. Thanks for sharing it!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Santé said:


> For illustrate what I say, on this picture, the left side of my fence.
> As you can see, it is adjustable and it is in this picture set 2mm further forward of the right side


Daniel-
I agree with Chris. That is an ingenious idea for that. Simple geometry. Best idea I've seen in a while.

Thank you for sharing that.


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Thank you, but I just copied what happens on my jointer


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

N'awlins77 said:


> Nick, not long after I built my table, and was brand new to a router table, I did that "no no" and I launched a piece of wood (luckily away from me) and it hit a can of stain I had on the shelf. The can had a serious dent in it. But I didn't find out till the next morning that the can had a hole in it too. Had a puddle of stain on my work bench that was under the shelf that held the can of stain. Hate to think of what kind of hole I would have had in me, being I'm not made of steel!! ;o)


Lee what you have said is correct and this does happen, just because some may get away with this from time to time does not mean that it should be done, workshops are dangerous enough and running wood between the fence and the cutter is stupid, I have machined wood my whole life and I have never seen any task where this had to be done. NGM


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## ptofimpact (Oct 23, 2012)

*My own experience*

This is along the same lines as most replies, I did the same thing, a narrow piece of stock, between the fence and bit, was lucky no one got injured, the wood launched at an amazing speed. Thankfully no personal injuries, however, at the other end of the workarea, was a Pachinko machine I was restoring, the wood stock shattered the plexi covering the front, and made a large dent in the plywood face. Got lucky, wont do it again.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Incra recommends the procedure that Daniel did to cut rabbets on the outside edge of a workpiece(or did in the mid 1990's, haven't seen a newer manual). 1/32" to 1/16" max cut per pass, using a rubber soled push block and climb cutting! If I remember correctly, so does(did anyway) Jointech.

That said, if the system is truely centered on the workpiece, you should be able to do that edge on the inside with right to left feed as well. If not center _exactly_ it will mess up the fit!


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hello,
Here is a photo of the montage of my friend Champy for passing his melamine pannels between guide and bit for 2 reasons
1) soften the edges
2) have the two edges exactly parallels.

You can see the details (11 photos) to this address
Wwwsendspace.com


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