# Ordering Avid Pro CNC



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I should wait till my shops ready , but I feel I should purchase it now and assemble it this winter . I’m concerned about the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar ,and if plummets any further .

I measured my room a few times and although I’d prefer a 4x8 ,because of room constraints I’m going to special order a 4X5.
I’m keeping the X axis (the gantry) at 4’ , but adding a foot to the Y axis for a total of 5’ instead of 4. 
As much as I’d like to , I’m not buying their electronics. I’ll buy a cabinet and build it myself , which I believe will be a beneficial learning experience, especially for future trouble shooting .

While I’m ordering the table, I have a few questions about other parts to get so they can ship together .


Auto Z and Corner Finding Touch Plate | Avid CNC | CNC Router Parts
Would you guys suggest using their touch plate , or are there better options ? 
The expense doesn’t seem to bad . 


Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit | Avid CNC | CNC Router Parts
These sensors seem a bit expensive, and I’m thinking there’s a better option out there somewhere ? I don’t want mechanical stops . 



100 mm Spindle Mount - CRP142-12 | Avid CNC | CNC Router Parts
I was going to order their optional tram plate, but I see it’s an option with the 100mm spindle mount . I’m still determined to use a water cooled spindle , so I may as well order this now for sure.

As for a base I want to make my own, so I can save that way also


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well I should wait till my shops ready , but I feel I should purchase it now and assemble it this winter . I’m concerned about the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar ,and if plummets any further .
> 
> I measured my room a few times and although I’d prefer a 4x8 ,because of room constraints I’m going to special order a 4X5.
> I’m keeping the X axis (the gantry) at 4’ , but adding a foot to the Y axis for a total of 5’ instead of 4.
> ...


My opinions which are worth about as much as my 1/2 arse paintings. Just order the kit. Make your own stand if you wish. You want to cut or dabble? Saying that......

You need the touch plate for exact work. I still use playing cards but have the touch plate waiting to be hooked up.

I broke one proximity sensor. Cheapest I found was a similar one for about $5 cheaper than CNCRP. So I just ordered a couple from CNCRP.

Get the tram plate. Makes the spindle more rigid and adjustable. Personal choice for me was the air cooled spindle. Less muss and fuss. Just my opinion. But get a spindle of some kind.

That 4 x 5 will probably make most anything you will ever do -- and is expandable down the road. I'd buy their electronics (I'm lectronically limited), get it together, and start cutting as soon as possible. Their instructions and parts are pretty good and you will still learn what they are and what they do. You want to cut or play frustrated builder? The design engineer at my wife's place built his about the same time I was getting interested in CNC. His advice was buy whatever you can afford and screw the building from scratch --- unless your name is David Falkner.

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

Just my thoughts which don't mean a thing.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

We need to let Rick know his account has been hacked and compromised - someone impersonating him ordered a CNC. Next thing we'll see is insulation! :grin:

I'll play along... way to go, Rick! Btw, the 100mm spindle mount is for a 3kW spindle. A 2.2kW spindle uses 80mm. At least that's the way it normally goes. When's the arrival date?

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> We need to let Rick know his account has been hacked and compromised - someone impersonating him ordered a CNC. Next thing we'll see is insulation! :grin:
> 
> I'll play along... way to go, Rick! Btw, the 100mm spindle mount is for a 3kW spindle. A 2.2kW spindle uses 80mm. At least that's the way it normally goes. When's the arrival date?
> 
> David


I don't think he's ordered it yet. He'll make some excuse not to I bet. lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> We need to let Rick know his account has been hacked and compromised - someone impersonating him ordered a CNC. Next thing we'll see is insulation! :grin:
> 
> I'll play along... way to go, Rick! Btw, the 100mm spindle mount is for a 3kW spindle. A 2.2kW spindle uses 80mm. At least that's the way it normally goes. When's the arrival date?
> 
> David


Good to know . I had 100 mm in my head for some reason . Actually I thought you were using a 100mm. Guess not 




honesttjohn said:


> I don't think he's ordered it yet. He'll make some excuse not to I bet. lol


lol , I’m not taking any bets


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

HOw, I go away for a day and Rick gets hacked. argggghhh..


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I'd say get the spindle mount w/tramming adaptor and the touch plate. 

For the proximity/homing switches you will probably want to add connectors to the box to connect the cables to or at least use some kind of quick disconnects instead of wiring directly into the control board. There are all kinds of micro switches you can use, you just need to figure out how and where they need to be mounted. You will want to use shielded cable for the switches to help eliminate static problems.

You do have time to search for components but you do need to decide what control software you will be using so you get the correct boards and drivers for the steppers you decide to use. Doing your own electronics you need to remember you will have to configure the components for use with your chosen control software.

Looks like you will beat me to buying a new machine but I do have the insulation for the lower floor in my shop so if I hurry I might beat you to insulating.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

I'm with John on buy the plug and play electronics, if you can. I built my own electronics, but that is what I do for a living.. 

As far as proximity sensors, I got mine from Automation Direct (online shopping). Also got my vfd and enclosure there. 

A touch plate is definitely worth the money. Someday I will get John to use his...

Good luck with your build!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Good to know . I had 100 mm in my head for some reason . Actually I thought you were using a 100mm. Guess not


I *am* using 100mm, Rick, and I have a 3kW spindle. I just didn't want to see you order a 100mm mount for a 2.2kW spindle, if that's what you're getting. You'll need the 80mm mount for the 2.2kW spindle.

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I *am* using 100mm, Rick, and I have a 3kW spindle. I just didn't want to see you order a 100mm mount for a 2.2kW spindle, if that's what you're getting. You'll need the 80mm mount for the 2.2kW spindle.
> 
> David


Ok I was right with the 100mm mount as I want to get the same spindle your using . Any reason I shouldn’t go that big? 
For 3D carvings ,maybe a 3kw is burning up more electricity than needed?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> I'm with John on buy the plug and play electronics, if you can. I built my own electronics, but that is what I do for a living..
> 
> As far as proximity sensors, I got mine from Automation Direct (online shopping). Also got my vfd and enclosure there.
> 
> ...


I’m not to intimidated by the electronics, and I’m actually looking forward to it . I’ll have an over sized cabinet just to make things easier to work on . 

I was hoping to use UCCNC , and Avid doesn’t support it, so I will be stuck with Mach 3 or 4 if I use their electronics.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ok I was right with the 100mm mount as I want to get the same spindle your using . Any reason I shouldn’t go that big?
> For 3D carvings ,maybe a 3kw is burning up more electricity than needed?


I would get the 3kW over the 2.2kW. I doubt there's more than a couple of amps difference in what they pull and there's just something about _*MORE POWER *_that I love!!! :grin:

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> I would get the 3kW over the 2.2kW. I doubt there's more than a couple of amps difference in what they pull and there's just something about _*MORE POWER *_that I love!!! :grin:
> 
> David


Bigger IS better!!!!!


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

As long as you buy well documented electronics, you will not have any issues. You are just connecting boxes with wires, not much more complicated than wiring a stereo system, not like you need to solder components on boards. Do buy decent shielded wire, it will definitely prevent issues that you don’t want to track down. The steppers and Spindle will definitely need to be shielded, not necessary for the proximity sensors, but won’t hurt. Shielded wire designed for high flex applications is more expensive and a bit harder to find. That is one of the reasons for the higher cost of their prewired setups - they actually supply decent cables. . 
I do urge you to learn at least a little about steppers. You will not want to buy most of the cheap sets of steppers and drivers that are out there. You want to look for some low inductance ones, the recommended driver voltage is related to the inductance by the formula V = 32 x sqrt(inductance). The ones that CNC Router Parts (Avid) sells are pretty good, but you may find equivalent elsewhere for less. Have you decided on whether you will go Nema23 or 34? I have the 23s from CRP on my DIY and am quite happy, I believe David used 34s. 

I used the ESS, but if you want to go UCCNC, you will need one of their motion controllers. I bought an AXBB-E and UCCNC license a few months ago (for a planned smaller machine), combined they were less than either the ESS or Mach4. Based on Gerry’s recommendations, I think it is a smart way to go. 

My machine is also 4’ x 5’, it is a great size, and easy to balance a full 4 x 8 sheet if you need to. In 3 years since I built mine, I have yet to need to, but am building a new house and shop and will extend mine (already have the extrusions) so I can do my kitchen cabinets. Don’t forget to assemble it allowing the spindle to overhang one end so you can do joinery cuts on vertical boards - consider 6’ rails. 

I have a feeling that once you receive it, you won’t be waiting for winter to assemble. Have you started learning any of the software yet?


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Auto Z and Corner Finding Touch Plate | Avid CNC | CNC Router Parts
> Would you guys suggest using their touch plate , or are there better options ?
> The expense doesn’t seem to bad .



Here's a link to the touch plate I use. The Makers Guide - Triple Edge Finder - THE MAKERS GUIDE The Maker's Guide costs $77 vs Avid's $130, a significant difference. There are also ones similar to the Maker's Guide on Ebay from around $35 to $55. 

The Maker's Guide does corner finding and sets Z. It works great, but does not have spring loading for Z axis touch off. I've only had a problem with that once, but it had nothing to do with the the touch plate. At that time, I was using an acme screw on Z. The coupling slipped and allowed the axis to dive too deep and chipped a cutting edge.

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Here's a link to the touch plate I use. The Makers Guide - Triple Edge Finder - THE MAKERS GUIDE The Maker's Guide costs $77 vs Avid's $130, a significant difference. There are also ones similar to the Maker's Guide on Ebay from around $35 to $55.
> 
> The Maker's Guide does corner finding and sets Z. It works great, but does not have spring loading for Z axis touch off. I've only had a problem with that once, but it had nothing to do with the the touch plate. At that time, I was using an acme screw on Z. The coupling slipped and allowed the axis to dive too deep and chipped a cutting edge.
> 
> Gary


That’s very cool . The only think I like about the cncrouterparts one is it has a spring loaded plate .
It’s funny , as you say there shouldn’t be an issue , but I get anxiety every time I watch those bits go down to touch the solid metal surface . I’m assuming it’s made from aluminum?

I’m going to order one from cncrouterparts,and buy this one at a later date when I get a little more familiar with the machine .
Thanks for the info Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I wish I still had cncrouterparts phone number . I forgot they don’t provide one , and you have to email them in order for a call back .
Guess they were getting to many phone calls


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I do have the insulation for the lower floor in my shop _so if I hurry I might beat you to insulating_."
-Mike
Take your time, Mike; no rush.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick

Check PM


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Rick
> 
> Check PM


Got it , thanks John


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

difalkner said:


> I would get the 3kW over the 2.2kW. I doubt there's more than a couple of amps difference in what they pull and there's just something about _*MORE POWER *_that I love!!!
> 
> David


I'm all for bigger if there's a benefit to it but if you can cut 3/4" birch at 150imp single pass with a 2.2kw and nema23 motors, I really don't see the need to spend the extra $$$ 
Unless you're running a cabinet shop.

https://youtu.be/7qgmGYUwK0M


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> I'm all for bigger if there's a benefit to it but if you can cut 3/4" birch at 150imp single pass with a 2.2kw and nema23 motors, I really don't see the need to spend the extra $$$
> Unless you're running a cabinet shop.
> 
> https://youtu.be/7qgmGYUwK0M


I was going to build it with Nema 34 . I read there’s less chances of having missteps etc with the larger steppers .
Ideally I’d go with Servos, but that’s out of my budget


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Sounds good although the only missteps I've had is when I've ran it into the bumpers during a bit change. (Yep, I'm too cheap to splurge on the $260 limit switches) 😉


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

Pro4824 said:


> Sounds good although the only missteps I've had is when I've ran it into the bumpers during a bit change. (Yep, I'm to cheap to splurge on the $260 limit switches) 😉


On my present machine (self-designed and built), I'm using the high-priced Pepperl & Fuchs. However, on my first machine, I used the $18 for 5 Chinese cheapies. 

Here's what I found:

Chinese are just as repeatable as P&F
P&F have a greater sensing distance
In a bypass (vs head on) sensing application, P&F pick up the target sooner 
To maximize the Sensing distance with the Chinese, you have get the 18mm sensors (8mm sensing on steel) vs P&F, which are 12mm with 8mm sensing distance (about 1/4" dia. thinner). (I used the 18mm Chinese).

The P&F may last longer, but I do not have empirical evidence of that. In two years of use, the Chinese sensors never failed. I mechanically squared the gantry to the sensors. With the Chinese, homing on Y/slave axis was spot on every time. 

Bottom line: IMO, cost is not an excuse for going bare. 

Gary


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I was going to build it with Nema 34 . I read there’s less chances of having missteps etc with the larger steppers .
> Ideally I’d go with Servos, but that’s out of my budget



I went with the NEMA 34s. No complaints. I suspect that if NEMA 23s were losing steps, there would likely be a mechanical issue somewhere, e.g., the linear rails not parallel, the table not coplanar and level., etc.

If you are familiar with the Saturn 2 welded steel machines, there are folks successfully pushing the much heavier gantry with NEMA 23s.

I like a beefier machine, so I use the 34s. That's just me, though.

Gary


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

Pro4824 said:


> I'm all for bigger if there's a benefit to it but if you can cut 3/4" birch at 150imp single pass with a 2.2kw and nema23 motors, I really don't see the need to spend the extra $$$
> Unless you're running a cabinet shop.


In our cabinet shop, we cut at 1200ipm with a 15HP spindle. :wink:


If you make the same cut at 300-400ipm, you'll double your tool life.
Also, a more powerful spindle will be cutting at a lower percentage of it's abilities, so it *should* last longer than a smaller spindle doing the same work.
I consider round chinese spindles to be disposable, so it's a minor issue.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> In our cabinet shop, we cut at 1200ipm with a *15HP spindle.* :wink:
> 
> 
> If you make the same cut at 300-400ipm, you'll double your tool life.
> ...


I’m trying to keep it one phase here lol, but I get your point


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

I've been running mine for a couple of years and only crashed maybe twice so I'll probably keep running it without sensors but it would be nice to finally get to click that ref all home button! 🙂


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I’m trying to keep it one phase here lol, but I get your point


lol, I done goofed with this response , as the VDF converts single phase to 3 phase I believe. 

I’m dam near tempting to go with Avids VDF and spindle , but it sure seems pricey compared to other options. 
But I guess you get what you pay for. I keep hearing about bearing failure with Chinese spindles , and I’m doubting the bearings are something you can change out yourself ?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I got one of each. There is a marked difference.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> I got one of each. There is a marked difference.


Is the one from Avid cnc louder than your other spindle ? I believe you didn’t have it running for long if I remember correctly, but maybe you noticed the noise difference


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Just a touch. But it's bigger and more powerful. Bits on wood make noise no matter what. The vacuums are the loudest part of the whole operation.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

If you place the dust collector as far away as possible it'll be much quieter.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> If you place the dust collector as far away as possible it'll be much quieter.


It won’t be far away . Most likely 5’ away , and no other options as it will be located by the the wall in the middle of the shop . This way I can keep it close to the table saw . 
No options to put it outside also .

What has me concerned is keeping the DC running for 14 hours straight if your doing a 3D carving . 
Sounds like a lot of wear and tear and power consumption. The other option is to stand their the whole time and periodically use a shop vac to clean it up


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

My Ridgid vacs run up to 20 hours a day at peak times.  Shortest lifespan I've had is 15 months on one.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> My Ridgid vacs run up to 20 hours a day at peak times. Shortest lifespan I've had is 15 months on one.


switch to a DC...


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> What has me concerned is keeping the DC running for 14 hours straight if your doing a 3D carving .
> Sounds like a lot of wear and tear and power consumption. The other option is to stand their the whole time and periodically use a shop vac to clean it up


Mount your cnc upside down and slide your trashcan under it!! 😉


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> Mount your cnc upside down and slide your trashcan under it!! 😉


Genius , genius I tell you :grin:


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

honesttjohn said:


> Just a touch. But it's bigger and more powerful. Bits on wood make noise no matter what. The vacuums are the loudest part of the whole operation.


Pretty sure the Avid cnc spindle is a 2.2kw (3hp) spindle. Same as the one on your Probotix. Could very well be a higher quality though.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well we’re at the point of no return ,as it’s ordered 

It won’t be assembled for quite some time , but I’m concerned about our dollar dropping further yet , so I got it over with . 
Should make for a fun winter project


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well we’re at the point of no return ,as it’s ordered <a href="http://www.routerforums.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>
> 
> It won’t be assembled for quite some time , but I’m concerned about our dollar dropping further yet , so I got it over with .
> Should make for a fun winter project


WOOOHOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations!!!
I can't believe this day has finally come!!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Yay rick!!!!!!


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

Hah... it's a given. Rick benefits from free insulation
once the chips start flying and collectin.

Congratulations!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks guys . This has been on my bucket list for a long time, and I’m happy that I’ve finally ordered one .
I would have liked to have a 4’x8’ , but I know it would have make my garage a nuisance to move around in .
So I think a 4x5 is the next best thing . Now I have a reason to get my butt in gear and get the garage ready for winter


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well we’re at the point of no return ,as it’s ordered
> 
> It won’t be assembled for quite some time , but I’m concerned about our dollar dropping further yet , so I got it over with .
> Should make for a fun winter project


So did you go with the plug and play electronics? John is an EXPERT at assembling one of these kits and I am sure he will be glad to assist!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> So did you go with the plug and play electronics? John is an EXPERT at assembling one of these kits and I am sure he will be glad to assist!


Nope . They misunderstood me and gave me a quote for everything including the base.
I was actually impressed with the price , but how fun would that be ? 
So ordered the Pro router table , including a 80mm mount with tramming plate, and the touch plate . 
It won’t be unpacked until the garage is finished inside , so could be a couple more years yet. Just kidding I hope .

Btw I want to run UCCNC instead of Mach , so I’d sooner build the cabinet myself with a UCCNC motion controller


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well we’re at the point of no return ,as it’s ordered
> 
> It won’t be assembled for quite some time , but I’m concerned about our dollar dropping further yet , so I got it over with .
> Should make for a fun winter project


All in for the win. Happy for you. we will all help you work through the rest of this. Batter up.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> So did you go with the plug and play electronics? John is an EXPERT at assembling one of these kits and I am sure he will be glad to assist!


I’m going to fly John in for the assembly part . Not sure how his wife is going to take it


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I’m going to fly John in for the assembly part . Not sure how his wife is going to take it



Should be a piece of cake for you since there's no stand.

Print the instructions out (all that apply to what you got) and put them in a 3 ring binder. They are quite good and fairly easy to follow. You got my phone number. And I'm no expert at anything involving this CNC stuff. Dave lies!!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Should be a piece of cake for you since there's no stand.
> 
> Print the instructions out (all that apply to what you got) and put them in a 3 ring binder. They are quite good and fairly easy to follow. You got my phone number. And I'm no expert at anything involving this CNC stuff. Dave lies!!!!


There’s actually a few assembly videos online also . I’m not great with manuals and prefer videos .
All kidding aside , I’ll probably use both . 
When I assemble the electronics in the cabinet , I’m sure I’ll have a few questions for the gurus here .

I may be working for a contractor part time after my final shift on August 16th. I wish I could take a year off and just get everything cleared up at home , but may have to make hay while the sun shines .
But working part time and having a cnc gig at home would be a good deal if I could swing it .


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Ummmm got to get the shop ready. Don’t forget the WIP’s as you go along Rick especially the ‘I’ part.>>>>

Had to say it mate. Your going to fully enjoy yourself when the shop is done and the packages opened.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Don't let cold stop you from assembling, the machine can work in the cold (use antifreeze if you get a water cooled spindle). Assembly will go quicker than you believe. In the meantime, get cracking on the software you plan on using (if Vectric, any files you create in the demo version will be usable as long as you are on the same computer (and you can install on more than one).

Ok, who had 2019 in the pool? :wink:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Don't let cold stop you from assembling, the machine can work in the cold (use antifreeze if you get a water cooled spindle). Assembly will go quicker than you believe. In the meantime, get cracking on the software you plan on using (if Vectric, any files you create in the demo version will be usable as long as you are on the same computer (and you can install on more than one).
> 
> Ok, who had 2019 in the pool? :wink:


Wasn't me - I was in the "ain't never going to happen" group. lol


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I had it with the insulation installation (try saying that 10 times really fast! LOL!). Photos need to begin as soon as the packages arrive, Rick, and remember that video is widescreen. :wink:

David


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I have heard, must be on another forum, that they do not do well in an uninsulated shop.....Just saying....VBG....


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I’ve got a lot of work on my plate , and here I go getting side side tracked . Friends of mine have a huge deck with a large number of posts that need routing in order to embed the glass .
Sheesh


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

honesttjohn said:


> wasn't me - i was in the "ain't never going to happen" group. Lol



+1


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Congrats on your purchase Rick. I am sure you will have lots of fun.


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## bdlitzer (Sep 2, 2018)

I did just what you are thinking of doing. Bought the pro4824 frame, the touchplate(DO IT-ITS GREAT), the sensors(worth it - don't roll your own here), bought an ebay air-cooled spindle/VFD(preferred air cooled to avoid more crap on the machine and maintenance). Bought an eval NEMA 34 motor, driver, power supply set. Bought the Centroid Acorn control board(I don't regret getting away from Mach3/4).

The frame went together in 4-5 hours. The electronics took the winter as I had never done anything like this before. If I did it again, it would take 10x less time since I would know what I am doing.

I just could not justify the cost of their plug and play with the NEMA34 option. I put the electronics together for about 1/3 the cost of the plug and play option. BUT, it was a long haul to learn what I needed to learn and do it.

I would be happy to talk on the phone with you if you had any questions. I wish I had someone to call while I did the project.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

bdlitzer said:


> I did just what you are thinking of doing. Bought the pro4824 frame, the touchplate(DO IT-ITS GREAT), the sensors(worth it - don't roll your own here), bought an ebay air-cooled spindle/VFD(preferred air cooled to avoid more crap on the machine and maintenance). Bought an eval NEMA 34 motor, driver, power supply set. Bought the Centroid Acorn control board(I don't regret getting away from Mach3/4).
> 
> The frame went together in 4-5 hours. The electronics took the winter as I had never done anything like this before. If I did it again, it would take 10x less time since I would know what I am doing.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum, and thank you for the info. You have a great looking setup there. I’m sure I’m going to have no regrets choosing Avid CNC.

Looking at your pictures, are you using a computer power supply? The reason I ask , I know you require 12V and 5V , and I was thinking a computer PS would be of better quality than I normally see used in cabinets . 

I bought a IBM thinkpad laptop , but I’m sure liking your monitor setup.

Looking again , your dust boot is stationary and doesn’t move up and down with the spindle ? Interesting


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

bdlitzer said:


> I did just what you are thinking of doing. Bought the pro4824 frame, the touchplate(DO IT-ITS GREAT), the sensors(worth it - don't roll your own here), bought an ebay air-cooled spindle/VFD(preferred air cooled to avoid more crap on the machine and maintenance). Bought an eval NEMA 34 motor, driver, power supply set. Bought the Centroid Acorn control board(I don't regret getting away from Mach3/4).
> 
> The frame went together in 4-5 hours. The electronics took the winter as I had never done anything like this before. If I did it again, it would take 10x less time since I would know what I am doing.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum! Add your first name to your profile to clear the N/a in the side panel and so we'll know what to call you. Add your location, as well.

When you get a minute go over to the Introduction area and give us a proper intro to yourself, shop, projects, experience, etc. And we do like photos so good start on showing us your CNC - nice looking setup, btw.

David


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Welcome to the Router Forums bdlitzer

Seeing all the red holders and dust covers looks like you might have a 3D printer also.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> The reason I ask , I know you require 12V and 5V , and I was thinking a computer PS would be of better quality than I normally see used in cabinets


You don't want a computer PS. Get a small DIN rail mount supply. Something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-P...713783&hash=item215e4ba195:g:BlwAAOSwSzZdGqVe

And while many people do, I wouldn't want to use a laptop to run my machine, unless you don't mind it getting very dusty.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

ger21 said:


> And while many people do, I wouldn't want to use a laptop to run my machine, unless you don't mind it getting very dusty.


Agree. I had a very basic, but powerful, PC built with Windows operating system only. Nothing running in the background or that other add on stuff. Not hooked to the internet or used for anything else. I load thumbdrives from my machine in the office (no dust or dirt above normal) and run it that way. Each machine has it's own computer. Blow it out kind of regularly and has worked great.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ya I’m kinda kicking myself , as I had this idea in my head that you wanted a win7 machine .
I’ve wasted another $700 on a laptop that’s really worthless if I don’t use it . Maybe I’ll dedicate it to my laser engraver , and get a desktop computer for the cnc router . 
I’m really liking the idea of mounting a large monitor the way that bdlitzer posted.

Another thought. I’m going to buy an oversized cabinet for the electronics, so why not just mount the computer mother board and PS in the cabinet ?


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

A lot of people run small computers like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0749NR2KJ/ref=dp_cerb_3
You can put that right in the cabinet.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Whatever you mount on the machine will shake and vibrate. Instead of connecting my computer and monitor arm I went to WalMart and got a cheap microwave cart. It sits right alongside and has 3 racks (shelves) for machine stuff and parts.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

I prefer my PC to be in the cabinet. It keeps the dust out of it. Vibration shouldn't be an issue, imo.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> Whatever you mount on the machine will shake and vibrate.


Hmmmmmm..... I've seen people mount their controller box and VFD to the wall or in a mobile cart next to the cnc. NOW I finally see the benefit to that setup. Thanks John, I may have to do a little reconfiguring.

Rick, I use a (closed) laptop with wireless keyboard and mouse and a wall mounted monitor. Keeps the dust out.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ...But working part time and having a cnc gig at home would be a good deal if I could swing it .


This is a good thing. It's no fun working against a deadline of running out of money to keep house and home. But I do suggest you plan to make HASTE while that sun shines and get busy with identifying your market for sales in your region. I think you're in a good spot to begin making signs and such to get business rolling in. Being self employed is a terrific thing. In USA, you can deduct all business expenses and operate at a loss for three years without the tax man descending on you.

I think for new entrepreneurs the trap is to treat it as you are on vacation. It takes 10,000 hours to develop serious expertise in any field. Every hour spend dithering and not working on knowledge and skill extends that learning curve and decreases the chance of success. Delay produces depression, working intently and intensely, chases all that away. The first time you sell something will be a day to celebrate.

Here once again is the pdf on making money with your CNC. Welcome to the world of the entrepreneur. It is a different way of life than working for someone else. I could never go back.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; Amen! I'd never hire someone who's worked for themselves. Once you get a taste of making all the decisions, ie being your own boss, you're forever spoiled for taking orders from someone else. Except for product orders; those are just peachy.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> A lot of people run small computers like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0749NR2KJ/ref=dp_cerb_3
> You can put that right in the cabinet.


What the heck , that’s what I call small . Hey if it works


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> Hmmmmmm..... I've seen people mount their controller box and VFD to the wall or in a mobile cart next to the cnc. NOW I finally see the benefit to that setup. Thanks John, I may have to do a little reconfiguring.
> 
> Rick, I use a (closed) laptop with wireless keyboard and mouse and a wall mounted monitor. Keeps the dust out.


I keep on forgetting about locating it on the wall , great idea imo . There’s your vibration issues over , and a good reason to implement it. 
At first , I was going to mount the Cabinet under the cnc table , and have it on sliding rails to access it.
Liking the wall idea much better , and I’ll locate it at a height that will make it easy to work on it also .

Thanks for the posts guys, there’s some great advice and ideas here


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MEBCWD said:


> Welcome to the Router Forums bdlitzer
> 
> Seeing all the red holders and dust covers looks like you might have a 3D printer also.


Well darn , I was admiring those ,and was going to ask where he got them


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum bdlitzer.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> What the heck , that’s what I call small . Hey if it works


They are also fanless and sealed - no dust issues. There are mounts to mount them to the hole patterns on the back of the monitor, even if using a wall mount.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day and welcome to the forum, bdlitzer. Do you have a first name?


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> What the heck , that’s what I call small . Hey if it works



I just linked to that one because I found it quickly.
Not sure what the specs are, so do your homework before purchasing.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> I just linked to that one because I found it quickly.
> Not sure what the specs are, so do your homework before purchasing.


It’s all good . I wasn’t aware of these , and my first thought was to buy a micro sized MB . I will study this further though .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

My plan is to make my own base and have the back attached to the wall , then have two adjustable feet in the front . I was going to keep the legs back a foot in order to have access under the front of the spoil board for tenons etc . 

My question is for anyone who has the leg kit on their Pro router table . I’m wondering how tall the router table should be ?
I guess knowing the distance from the floor to the bottom of the aluminum extrusion would be great .
Thanks in advance


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> My plan is to make my own base and have the back attached to the wall , then have two adjustable feet in the front . I was going to keep the legs back a foot in order to have access under the front of the spoil board for tenons etc .
> 
> My question is for anyone who has the leg kit on their Pro router table . I’m wondering how tall the router table should be ?
> I guess knowing the distance from the floor to the bottom of the aluminum extrusion would be great .
> Thanks in advance


I think the height depends on you, Rick. Ours is 34" to the spoilboard. If you're going to put large and heavy pieces on the CNC then you might want it lower to make it easier for lifting heavy objects. But if you plan on doing a lot of work on the pieces mounted to the spoilboard or bed and don't want to bend over much then make it taller.

I'm 5'10" and the 34" height works great for me. It may not be best for others, though.

David


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

I built mine to be about the same as my table saw.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I just checked and my tablesaw is also 34", so I probably checked at the time I built the stand.

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

The CNCRP stand is 36" high. Then you have whatever you use as a bed on top of that.


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

I made mine 36" to the frame and you add your spoilboard to that. I'm only 5' 8" tall, but like the added height when working with fixtures. As has been pointed out, it's really matter of personal preference. However, I suppose it hard to know what your preference is, if you don't have the machine to help you establish it. There are articles on the internet which speak to good working heights for various shop tasks. I read several of them awhile back, when I was trying to figure out what height would be best for a modified Festool MFT clone to be used for breaking down sheet goods. The MFT I have is way to high for me to do it comfortably.

Here is a short article:

https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/workbench-height/

Here is a video:






There is a lot out there on the subject. Hopefully, some of it will help you sort it out. :grin:

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> The CNCRP stand is 36" high. Then you have whatever you use as a bed on top of that.


So the bottom of the spoil board is at 36”? 

Thanks for the responses guys. The table saw height sounds like a good idea also


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Thanks for the responses guys. The table saw height sounds like a good idea also


If you keep everything the same height (34" for me) then everything is usable as an outfeed table for everything else. 🙂


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> If you keep everything the same height (34" for me) then everything is usable as an outfeed table for everything else. 🙂


Well dam , if I would of thought of that earlier ,I would have ordered a 4x8 lol


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

The top of my aluminum T-track is 47 1/2" so it all depends on the thickness of spoil board I decide to use. This works great for me so I don't have to bend over very far when setting up a project or zeroing on a project.

I do have a 24x24 CNC so this works fine. If I did have a 48x48 I know this would not work very well for reaching over the bed setting up projects and might be a problem zeroing depending where the project is set up and the origin point I use.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Just had a concern . I think the brackets that support the tray for the track may attach underneath the sides of the extruded aluminum. 
This would hit the wooden stand I was going to build ,as I was going to have the stand flush with the outside edges of the framework .
Can anyone with a Pro verify ?
Thanks in advance

I guess once a verify where the brackets actually sit when it’s built , that I could route out a groove


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

The bracket is 4 inches below the frame. 

If you built a 4 posted stand (like 4d's) there would be no problem. With a table you collect a lot of dust and debris that builds up over time and put things on it that you either forget about or gets in the way of the machine, which can cause problems. Or just allow for the overhang when you build it. It is close to the edge of the frame.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

I was gonna cut the tray brackets so they could be mounted to the side of the cabinet but decided to "Modify" the cabinet to accommodate Avids design.
Improvise-Adapt-Overcome.
Also, I mounted the cable chain backwards so the cables exit to the rear. Much cleaner looking and less chance of snagging something. 
It doesn't matter how you do it, just make sure you share lots of pictures along the way!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks guys , my concern was right . Joe , it never even occurred to me to mount brackets onto the wood frame . I can’t see why that wouldn’t work, although it may place the track out to far from the machine


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

If I would have mounted the brackets to the side of my cabinet without modification, the cable tray wouldn't have lined up with the chain. 
I mounted the brackets to the bottom of the machine frame (as per Avid instructions) and just cut clearance pockets in the cabinet.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> If I would have mounted the brackets to the side of my cabinet without modification, the cable tray wouldn't have lined up with the chain.
> I mounted the brackets to the bottom of the machine frame (as per Avid instructions) and just cut clearance pockets in the cabinet.


I kind of noticed that it needs to be under a bit . You don’t know how much it recesses inside ? 
I was thinking if it goes in no deeper than 1.25 inches, that I could go with two layers of 2/6 , and just cut the outside 2/6 where I need it .
It looks like went quite a ways in though .

Curious as to how it’s secured ? I guess there must be plates available that you can secure to the extrusion , and then secure to the wood


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Or, just don't use their bracket and make something for the tray to sit on - even out of wood?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Or, just don't use their bracket and make something for the tray to sit on - even out of wood?


I agree , it could easily be made . If I didn’t make it out of wood, there’s a tin basher down the street from me 



Looking at this diagram from the front , it looks as though the tray could be secured to a wooden stand below


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

You could probably add shelf brackets to the side of the base to mount the cable tray to.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok problems over . You guys are going to lol , but I gave in and ordered everything including the leg kit . 
I just noticed they have bits on there also , not sure about them but whatever at this point . 
Any changes I should make to this quote , please feel free to add or subtract

Crumb , give me sec guys, have to edit that quote


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Don't think you'll regret it!!

I'm sure you can get cheaper bits. It's the shipping to Canada you might have to worry about - unless there's a Canadian supplier.

Now... about software. Aspire will let you share files with those of us who use it - which is most. And ............. you can come to the annual Vectric conference each October!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Don't think you'll regret it!!
> 
> I'm sure you can get cheaper bits. It's the shipping to Canada you might have to worry about - unless there's a Canadian supplier.
> 
> Now... about software. Aspire will let you share files with those of us who use it - which is most. And ............. you can come to the annual Vectric conference each October!!!


Well Ger21 taught me a lesson. I really thought a lot of Avids parts were overpriced,but the more I look into it , they do appear to be using quality parts .

And I have a feeling by the time I pay shipping from a few dozen companies as I’m sourcing parts , that I may not be much further ahead , other than I was really wanting the experience , knowledge and the feeling of accomplishment that goes with building the electronics yourself


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Quality parts and quality cables, and now looks like they are finally supporting Mach4, although I do not see that on your invoice. Only other option looks like you could add 5th stepper for a rotary.

Can’t use ucccnc without one of their controllers, are you ok with Mach4? (Please do not use Mach3). I am happy with it, as is, I believe, David. Ger21 has not done a screen set for it though.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Quality parts and quality cables, and now looks like they are finally supporting Mach4, although I do not see that on your invoice. Only other option looks like you could add 5th stepper for a rotary.
> 
> Can’t use ucccnc without one of their controllers, are you ok with Mach4? (Please do not use Mach3). I am happy with it, as is, I believe, David. Gerry has not done a screen set for it though.


This is my main beef ,as I wanted to learn UCCNC also , but now I’m screwed . But Ger21 did mention that I could change their motion control board out in the future . 
Not really wanting to do that however, so I guess it’s learn antiquated software .

I watched a video on Mach 3 versus UCCNC, and the UCCNC was superior in the way it was cutting


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> This is my main beef ,as I wanted to learn UCCNC also , but now I’m screwed . But Ger21 did mention that I could change their motion control board out in the future .
> Not really wanting to do that however, so I guess it’s learn antiquated software .
> 
> I watched a video on Mach 3 versus UCCNC, and the UCCNC was superior in the way it was cutting


Rick,

Where did you get the impression Mach4 is antiquated? Mach3 is, but not Mach4. Mach4 is better than Mach3 in virtually way. I migrated from Mach3 to Mach4 and have never looked back. Avid now supports Mach4, and has setup instructions for their Plug & Play boxes. If I understand the situation correctly, Avid delayed in supporting Mach4 due to an issue with torch height control (plasma machines) in Smoothstepper. Warp9 finally got it worked out, so Avid migrated to Mach4. Avid sells plasma machines, so they delayed until the electronics plug & play was consistent across their platforms. 

I have no experience with UCCNC, so I have no basis for commenting on it. However, Mach4 Hobby meets all my needs, and then some. 

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Rick,
> 
> Where did you get the impression Mach4 is antiquated? Mach3 is, but not Mach4. Mach4 is better than Mach3 in virtually way. I migrated from Mach3 to Mach4 and have never looked back. Avid now supports Mach4, and has setup instructions for their Plug & Play boxes. If I understand the situation correctly, Avid delayed in supporting Mach4 due to an issue with torch height control (plasma machines) in Smoothstepper. Warp9 finally got it worked out, so Avid migrated to Mach4. Avid sells plasma machines, so they delayed until the electronics plug & play was consistent across their platforms.
> 
> ...


I’m hoping Mach 4 is ok . I don’t know anything about it , other than what I hear all the time . 
I watched a video where the cuts were more superior with UCCNC.
But I’ll never know , so I better get used to it


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

All he did was cut air. Didn't prove a thing to me.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Rick one thing I would ask about is if the guy that did the video make any adjustments to his other settings in Mach3 that might also have made the cuts better or possibly as good as those of UNCNC. This is just a question and not a statement that changing other settings would make the cuts better.

This is also Mach3 and not Mach4.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MEBCWD said:


> Rick one thing I would ask about is if the guy that did the video make any adjustments to his other settings in Mach3 that might also have made the cuts better or possibly as good as those of UNCNC. This is just a question and not a statement that changing other settings would make the cuts better.
> 
> This is also Mach3 and not Mach4.


Yes I realize this is 3 ,and I sort of assumed it would be similar . I know nothing about either , only what I’ve seen mentioned on many forums .

I believe having Mach 4 would be beneficial for me being a noob, as I’d have a lot of support here . I’m not sure how many people are familiar with UCCNC


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

I know the guy who did the video (He lives near me), and it's legit. UCCNC is far superior to Mach3 in many ways.

I've never seen a machine run with Mach4, but I'm guessing that it's motion is probably better than UCCNC in some ways, as UCCNC currently has a minor issue.
I have a Mach4 hobby and Mach4 Industrial license, but for a variety of reasons, have no plans on using them. UCCNC is a better fit for what I want and need.
Everyone has their preferences, and most of the currently available options that are actively being developed are all perfectly fine.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Yes I realize this is 3 ,and I sort of assumed it would be similar .



No, they are two completely different programs. There is nothing at all that is the similar between them, except they both control cnc machines.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Just when you get used to one .......

That's hard on us computer challenged old farts.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Rick I think you will be happy after you get it all put together and start cutting. Their whole kit is the route I wanted to go just so I did not have the headaches of building it all from the ground up. In my younger days, I would have built from the ground up but now I'd rather just put one together and start cutting.

As you found there are just too many components for sale out there and it is often hard to find specs for those items. Also some of the shipping charges are ridiculous and depending on where you buy them you will also have import cost.

I know I've been trying to find a spindle and VFD for a CNC that a customer is trading to me but he is keeping the spindle that is on it for a backup for his other machine. I would be pulling my hair out right now if I still had any because there are just too many choices but not enough choices in the size I need(or want). I did find the Huanyang VFD I wanted on AliExpress direct from the factory. The price, shipping and VAT was a lot cheaper than the quotes I got from two different places that would sell them here in the US. It was delivered today so now I still need to get the spindle. The manual is in English and looks to be easy to follow.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I can only speak from my limited experience but I started with Mach4 over 2 years ago and it has done everything I've asked it to do, so no complaints here.

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> No, they are two completely different programs. There is nothing at all that is the similar between them, except they both control cnc machines.


Thanks that’s good to know . I assumed it was like Windows , add a few things and hide them different locations and call it new


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

MEBCWD said:


> It was delivered today so now I still need to get the spindle. The manual is in English and looks to be easy to follow.


https://youtu.be/jVirHq2kHKU

https://youtu.be/N7D5n5y7f50

Here ya go! 🙂


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok you guys are going to laugh, actually not really laughing but more like shaking your heads .
I seen the bill after I ordered the rest and feel I over extended myself . After I pay the exchange rate , our taxes and the duty , I think I’ll be well over 20K . 
It’s not their fault , it’s just our dollar is so low , and consumers pay 3 cents more than posted . 

I’m going to call them in the morning and go back to plan A . Get the Pro router table and the 80mm spindle mount , but add their Nema34 steppers and cables . They may have cut the extrusion for the stand, so maybe I’ll take that if that’s the case , as I went with an oddball size .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I did have one question. Do you need to have access under the spoil board , or does the spoil board typically attach from above ? 
I planned on having easy access in the front one foot in order to route wood pieces that are to large for the gantry


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Guys I did have one question. Do you need to have access under the spoil board , or does the spoil board typically attach from above ?
> I planned on having easy access in the front one foot in order to route wood pieces that are to large for the gantry


Spoil board or t-tracks can mount from above or you can use angles to mount them, all depends on you. Personally I would leave the stand open under the frame so I could add things like an adjustable angle bed section or vertical clamping fixture.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Our stand is open and the spoilboard attaches from above with plastic screws (in case I hit one). The front section is removable in the event I want to stand something on end.

This is the MDF mounted to the frame and my true spoilboard attaches to this. But you can see the front section is removable.








David


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Pro4824 said:


> https://youtu.be/jVirHq2kHKU
> 
> https://youtu.be/N7D5n5y7f50
> 
> Here ya go! 🙂


I won't be using Mach3, the CNC is a Shopbot Desktop so will be using their control software and it won't run the spindle, it will be a stand-alone unit with speed adjusted with the VFD by hand. I'm hoping it will be tighter than the Shark HD1. I know I'll be losing some cutting size but I can live with that for now.


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ok you guys are going to laugh, actually not really laughing but more like shaking your heads .
> I seen the bill after I ordered the rest and feel I over extended myself . After I pay the exchange rate , our taxes and the duty , I think I’ll be well over 20K .
> It’s not their fault , it’s just our dollar is so low , and consumers pay 3 cents more than posted .
> 
> I’m going to call them in the morning and go back to plan A . Get the Pro router table and the 80mm spindle mount , but add their Nema34 steppers and cables . They may have cut the extrusion for the stand, so maybe I’ll take that if that’s the case , as I went with an oddball size .



Rick

80/20 does all the cutting. Avid orders the extrusions from 80/20 and has them dropped shipped to the customer. There is more than just cutting extrusions to length. There is also milling involved for fasteners. Avid does the milling for the various plates used on their machine. Apparently they have a machine shop. I think they told me it was in California, but my memory is a little fuzzy about the location. Unless you just ordered the leg kit this morning, it's probably too late. 80/20 has some variability in getting orders out, depending upon how busy they are. They have a 'percent off' sale for a few days one time each
year. They are pretty busy then, but still got my order out within about a week. I was surprised.

Anyway, I believe folks get their orders in 2 shipments. One from 80/20 for the extrusions and accompanying hardware, and one from Avid for everything else.

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Rick
> 
> 80/20 does all the cutting. Avid orders the extrusions from 80/20 and has them dropped shipped to the customer. There is more than just cutting extrusions to length. There is also milling involved for fasteners. Avid does the milling for the various plates used on their machine. Apparently they have a machine shop. I think they told me it was in California, but my memory is a little fuzzy about the location. Unless you just ordered the leg kit this morning, it's probably too late. 80/20 has some variability in getting orders out, depending upon how busy they are. They have a 'percent off' sale for a few days one time each
> year. They are pretty busy then, but still got my order out within about a week. I was surprised.
> ...


Yes they seem prompt alright . I have no issues with buying the leg kit , as it’s kind of proprietary to mine seeing as its 4x5 . 
Looks like I’m building the rest though . Be a great winter project. I do see some things on Amazon.ca that have free shipping , so I can order from them for certain things


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Guys I did have one question. Do you need to have access under the spoil board , or does the spoil board typically attach from above ?
> I planned on having easy access in the front one foot in order to route wood pieces that are to large for the gantry



From the pictures I've seen of the Avids with leg kits, I haven't noticed anything under them. The angle bracing limits regular access somewhat. I suppose you could store broken down sheet goods under a 4x4. Better still, you could make a short (as in height) bank of cabinets with drawers and place it underneath.

For my first machine, a 4 x 4, I built two long cabinets and mounted my machine on them. They were built out of torsion boxes and were rock steady. Each side, the middle and the top were torsion boxes with some 3/4" ply holding them together. I used hockey puck leveling feet under each of the horizontal torsion boxes, which allowed me to get everything spot on level. They were darned heavy, which was a good thing. An added benefit was the storage the drawers provided. If you are able to cancel the legs, I highly recommend torsion box cabinets for a base. Sorry, but I can't point you to any photos online. It was my own design and I didn't photograph them. 

I'm not sure you are going to be able to cut oversize pieces too large to fit under the gantry. You would need significant overhang off the front. The Avid may have some, but it doesn't look like it would have enough to do much. Maybe enough to cut dovetails off the end, but I doubt it. More likely, you will need to move the front crossmember back from where specified. If you buy the legs, the legs will need to move back as well. Otherwise, you won't be able to use the crossbraces. I know about this, because I moved my front x-member and legs back 2 inches, so I could make dovetails, box joints and mortises & tenons in the conventional orientations (versus the strange looking joints folks came up with to cut flat on a cnc). Take a look at Gerry's (ger21) JointCAM for sale here: JointCAM - CNC Dovetails and Box Joints

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I’ll ask ,but I think I’m going to have to take it. My problem , not there’s


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Yes they seem prompt alright . I have no issues with buying the leg kit , as it’s kind of proprietary to mine seeing as its 4x5 .
> Looks like I’m building the rest though . Be a great winter project. I do see some things on Amazon.ca that have free shipping , so I can order from them for certain things



Well, I suppose if you had your heart set in UCCNC, you're good to go now. >

I did a little looking on EBay Canada. Looks like the same stuff as we have on the U.S. version. Not a bad place to look for things like XLR connectors, wire end pin crimp connectors, and assorted and sundry items.

Take heart. Building out the electronics really isn't too bad. It's just time consuming. If you don't have one already, get a decent soldering station. I have one like this: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/898D-2-in-1-Electric-SMD-Soldering-Station-Hot-Air-Heat-Gun-110V-with-3-Nozzles/173973363736?hash=item28819edc18:g:QiYAAOSwQmhdNhCE I works really well, once you figure out the right heat setting.

Don't forget the XLR panel mount connectors for your steppers - like this: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/4-Pack-Neutrik-NC4FD-L-B-1-Black-w-Gold-Contacts-4-Pin-XLR-Chassis-Panel-Mount/330761367011?hash=item4d02e9ede3:gC0AAOSwTptbVNop

Make yourself a shopping list. An Excel spreadsheet works well. Then, you shop 'til you drop and check things off as they come in. If you are at all like me, you are going to end up with some stuff you don't need. Fortunately, most of it isn't too expensive.

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Well, I suppose if you had your heart set in UCCNC, you're good to go now. >
> 
> I did a little looking on EBay Canada. Looks like the same stuff as we have on the U.S. version. Not a bad place to look for things like XLR connectors, wire end pin crimp connectors, and assorted and sundry items.
> 
> ...


Great info, thanks Gary


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Since you're a ways away from "completing" the machine and the finances are uncertain - you could always just order the parts from CNCRP as $$ permit. Will be a little more expensive over time but could save you some peace of mind. And they'll all fit.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Since you're a ways away from "completing" the machine and the finances are uncertain - you could always just order the parts from CNCRP as $$ permit. Will be a little more expensive over time but could save you some peace of mind. And they'll all fit.


I was thinking the same thing John , and it may come to that . 

Anyways as always , Avid CNC is great to work with . Cory totally understood my autism and refunded me for the plug and play cabinet and spindle .
The leg kit had already been cut and was on route , so I kept that .
I don’t know anything about the quality of other companies proximity sensors , so I purchased them hoping they were a good choice . (I forgot to ask you guys about those ) . 
I also had 4 of their Nema34’s shipped and the cables , and an 80mm spindle mount with tramming plate .
Now that I’m probably going to build the electronics myself, I’ll have another thousand questions :blink:


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Now that I’m probably going to build the electronics myself, I’ll have another thousand questions :blink:


Yup, I'm sure you will. I figured mine out myself, and it was a struggle at times. With the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, I wish I had asked a few questions along the way. Still, it wasn't an insurmountable obstacle. In the end, everything worked the first time I turned my box on. And, I should say, I have no electronics background. 

Keep in mind that there is a vocal minority who will push the system they use, and go to their deaths arguing that their's is the best. I believe ger21 said it correctly. Any of the usual suspects will do the job. Just stay away from the old technology, like Mach3. UCCNC, Mach4, Acorn and a several others will serve you well enough. Don't make assumptions, like you did with Mach4. Assumptions like that may lead you in the wrong direction. 

IMO, your first step in the decision tree is to decide what you want your CNC to do. If you are fine with 4 axes, pretty much any of the usual suspects will do. However, if you may want a rotary (5th axis) axis sometime downstream, then your options are pared down some. Acorn currently supports only 4 axes, so it wouldn't work. Mach4 and UCCNC will. Sometimes the number of options can lead to paralysis. My advice: decide what you believe you will ever potentially want your machine to do, and decide based upon that. Don't decide based upon promises of what may be in the future. Decide on the here and now. What's promised may never come to pass. I made my choice based upon my wish list for the future. If I ultimately decide against a rotary axis, I've lost little. However, If I get a rotary axis, I'm good to go. The main step is defining your wish list and going forward based upon it. That way you're covered, no matter what you ultimately decide to do.

Just my thoughts on the questions. Your mileage my vary.

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> From the pictures I've seen of the Avids with leg kits, I haven't noticed anything under them. The angle bracing limits regular access somewhat. I suppose you could store broken down sheet goods under a 4x4. Better still, you could make a short (as in height) bank of cabinets with drawers and place it underneath.
> 
> For my first machine, a 4 x 4, I built two long cabinets and mounted my machine on them. They were built out of torsion boxes and were rock steady. Each side, the middle and the top were torsion boxes with some 3/4" ply holding them together. I used hockey puck leveling feet under each of the horizontal torsion boxes, which allowed me to get everything spot on level. They were darned heavy, which was a good thing. An added benefit was the storage the drawers provided. If you are able to cancel the legs, I highly recommend torsion box cabinets for a base. Sorry, but I can't point you to any photos online. It was my own design and I didn't photograph them.
> 
> ...


Yes it’s a shame , as the leg kit will be a lot of money after it arrives , probably 1K when the smoke clears , so it’s going to be hard to discard . 
I’m sure my idea would have been far superior. I was going to have the back of my stand secured to the wall , and have legs with adjustable feet in the front .
Was going to put 2x6’s threw my Jointer to make sure they were very flat . 
Oh well , I’m sure there’s will suffice


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I watched this video of people building a stand for a Standard series Avid cnc table , and liked how they did it . I think this would have worked fine ,and the only thing I’d do is add a bottom shelf. I wouldn’t doubt this would be far superior stiffness wise also . Would have cost me 50 bucks to


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

And if you ever wanted to tile or make a longer piece than the bed .............?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> And if you ever wanted to tile or make a longer piece than the bed .............?


Just don’t do it ? 
Never thought of that one John . Although I guess you could tile from side to side .
I got to thinking about it, and the one advantage to having the leg kit ,I can move it till I’m happy with it’s location .
But other than that , I done goofed


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Yup, I'm sure you will. I figured mine out myself, and it was a struggle at times. With the clarity of 20/20 hindsight, I wish I had asked a few questions along the way. Still, it wasn't an insurmountable obstacle. In the end, everything worked the first time I turned my box on. And, I should say, I have no electronics background.
> 
> Keep in mind that there is a vocal minority who will push the system they use, and go to their deaths arguing that their's is the best. I believe ger21 said it correctly. Any of the usual suspects will do the job. Just stay away from the old technology, like Mach3. UCCNC, Mach4, Acorn and a several others will serve you well enough. Don't make assumptions, like you did with Mach4. Assumptions like that may lead you in the wrong direction.
> 
> ...


Not really interested in a rotary axis at this time . Gary ,I thought having a rotary axis would make for a total of 4 Axis, not 5?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

You can't tile side to side, Rick. The gantry has to ride somewhere...

Some people call it 3 axes for XYZ and some call it 4 if there are two motors on Y. I just take the safe route and call it a rotary axis and let folks put whatever number they want on it. :wink:

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> *You can't tile side to side, Rick. The gantry has to ride somewhere...*
> 
> Some people call it 3 axes for XYZ and some call it 4 if there are two motors on Y. I just take the safe route and call it a rotary axis and let folks put whatever number they want on it. :wink:
> 
> David


Lmao, it’s to early here in the morning for me to think that hard . Never even thought about it hitting the gantry . You’d think I was a total noob for crying out loud :lol:


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## Bordeogstole (Aug 8, 2019)

A 100mm mount seems like a good choice for your usecase, so I think you should definitely go for that. 

Other than that, I don't have much to say that have not already been said, so good luck with the Avid Pro CNC!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Bordeogstole said:


> A 100mm mount seems like a good choice for your usecase, so I think you should definitely go for that.
> 
> Other than that, I don't have much to say that have not already been said, so good luck with the Avid Pro CNC!


The size of the mount will be determined by the spindle size. Most 2.2kW spindles use 80mm and most 3kW spindles use 100mm.

Welcome to the forum! Add your first name to your profile to clear the N/a in the side panel. Add your location, as well. Go to the introduction sub-forum and tell us a little about yourself.

David


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> I thought having a rotary axis would make for a total of 4 Axis, not 5


4 axis, but 5 motors.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> [ b]You can't tile side to side, Rick. The gantry has to ride somewhere...[/b]
> 
> Some people call it 3 axes for XYZ and some call it 4 if there are two motors on Y. I just take the safe route and call it a rotary axis and let folks put whatever number they want on it. :wink:
> 
> David


I was just testing you guys :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Bordeogstole said:


> A 100mm mount seems like a good choice for your usecase, so I think you should definitely go for that.
> 
> Other than that, I don't have much to say that have not already been said, so good luck with the Avid Pro CNC!


I ended up going with an 80mm . I can always change it in the future. I went with an 80 mm because I thought the spindles that size are rated for 2.2kw , which is the same output as the one Avid uses . 
I can still phone and change that if I have to . Don’t really want to bug those guys anymore at this point though.
My main interest is 3D carvings


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I ended up going with an 80mm . I can always change it in the future. I went with an 80 mm because I thought the spindles that size are rated for 2.2kw , which is the same output as the one Avid uses .
> I can still phone and change that if I have to . Don’t really want to bug those guys anymore at this point though.
> My main interest is 3D carvings



David uses a 3 kw spindle. I use a 2.2 kw. 2.2 kw has always been enough for me, but your mileage may be different. The fact that Avid uses a 2.2kw may say something about its adequacy. Folks wouldn't be happy, if their spindles were undersized. Just saying. If you are a bigger is better kind of guy, go with 3 KW. 

Gary


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I probably run mine as much or more than most anyone here and Nema 34's with the 2.2 is more than adequate.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> I probably run mine as much or more than most anyone here and Nema 34's with the 2.2 is more than adequate.


 My theory is why have a huge spindle running for 14 hours straight cutting out tiny little bits of material out at a time during a 3D carving ? 
I think if I was cutting kitchen cupboards out all day I’d opt for the larger one .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I wanted the biggest, most powerful spindle on the block... :wink:

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I wanted the biggest, most powerful spindle on the block... :wink:
> 
> David


Maybe my smaller spindle is going to be the weak link of machine considering I’m going to run with Nema34 steppers ? 
I can still change my order , although I did tell them that it was my final answer


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Keep what you got ordered Rick.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree with John. Keep what you've ordered. You can break bits with a 2.2kW just as easily as you can with a 3kW. :grin:

David


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Bordeogstole said:


> A 100mm mount seems like a good choice for your usecase, so I think you should definitely go for that.
> 
> Other than that, I don't have much to say that have not already been said, so good luck with the Avid Pro CNC!


Welcome to the forum.


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## twmv86 (Oct 14, 2018)

the smaller spindle will probably be best in the sub zero environment


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

This is the 2.2kw VFD and Spindle, and seller I purchased from. Note delivery from Los Angeles - not China. Do not know if he ships to Canada.

No problems in the 3 years I had mine. Was the best price and delivery at the time and this seller had been recommended on cnczone. They are Huanyang which seems to be at least a decent Chinese supplier (usually you do not get a listed manufacturer). Also note that it is a 4 bearing unit (2 on each end of shaft), not all are. 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F261970720919

As you can see, a bit of saving over CNC Router Parts offering. By the way, 750W = 1hp, so the 2.2kw is a real, continuous duty, 3hp. Do recommend you get the 220V version of the VFD, have my doubts about the 110V versions.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> This is the 2.2kw VFD and Spindle, and seller I purchased from. Note delivery from Los Angeles - not China. Do not know if he ships to Canada.
> 
> No problems in the 3 years I had mine. Was the best price and delivery at the time and this seller had been recommended on cnczone. They are Huanyang which seems to be at least a decent Chinese supplier (usually you do not get a listed manufacturer). Also note that it is a 4 bearing unit (2 on each end of shaft), not all are.
> 
> ...


There is a 120V 20amp plug , plus a 240V plug dedicated to my router table .
I guess the biggest concern is getting genuine products. I’ll look into this ones, thanks again.
This is the one I was looking at earlier on amazon.ca. Looks similar , but who knows 

https://www.amazon.ca/Spindle-4bear...jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
It actually seemed a little noisier than I thought it would be in the one guys video review . Hard to tell though


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

You won't find anything quieter than these water cooled spindles. Noise should be the least of your concerns.

Make sure you get a 240V spindle. Lots of issues with 110V versions.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> There is a 120V 20amp plug , plus a 240V plug dedicated to my router table .
> I guess the biggest concern is getting genuine products. I’ll look into this ones, thanks again.
> This is the one I was looking at earlier on amazon.ca. Looks similar , but who knows
> 
> ...


I only saw one video on that page, Rick, and the sound I hear is the bit cutting the plastic. I doubt you'll ever hear the spindle when a bit is cutting.

David


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

difalkner said:


> I only saw one video on that page, Rick, and the sound I hear is the bit cutting the plastic. I doubt you'll ever hear the spindle when a bit is cutting.
> 
> David



+1. 

Rick, the water cooled spindles are remarkably quiet when free running - at least as compared to conventional handheld routers. Handhelds scream. However, once they start cutting you are going to get cutting noise. No way to avoid it. Add a dust collector in the work area (vs outside), and it gets very noisy. I wear hearing protection to preserve the hearing I have left. On the plus side, the spindle isn't adding much noise to the mix. I'd hate to think about how loud it would be if you added in the noise you get from a handheld router.

Bottom line (just my 2 cents):

2.2kw will give you all the power you are going to need.

Always opt for the 220v/240V VFD and Spindle. Too many complaints about problems with the 110v/120V models.

The bulk of noise comes from actual cutting and from dust collection (a must have). The amount of noise can be quite variable, depending up the material being cut, e.g., wood, MDF, acrylic, HDPE, aluminum.

Spindles are designed to cut for hours on end vs. handheld routers, which are not. Spindles are the best option for endless 3d cutting.

HY VFDs coupled with properly sized spindles are reliable and provide a relatively low cost solution. They are widely used, which says something about them. (Note: Hitachi VFDs are probably better than HY, but there is also a big difference in cost. Many do not feel the cost v. benefit weighs heavily in favor of Hitachi. Of course, others feel otherwise.) 

A 2.2kw VFD & spindle will not be the weak link in your system, regardless of whether you used NEMA 23s or 34s. The weakest link will probably be a relative lack of rigidity, which is inherent in bolt-together aluminum extrusion machines, and a lack of mass as compared to welded steel CNCs. That doesn't mean there is a problem with extrusion-based machines. There isn't. But it means there may be more fine tuning and adjusting techniques to accommodate the machine's limitations - especially when cutting materials other than wood. 

There are any number of things to worry over in a first CNC build. Too much to learn and too many decisions to make. Worry over a 2.2kw vs 3kw spindle shouldn't be one of them.

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> +1.
> 
> Rick, the water cooled spindles are remarkably quiet when free running - at least as compared to conventional handheld routers. Handhelds scream. However, once they start cutting you are going to get cutting noise. No way to avoid it. Add a dust collector in the work area (vs outside), and it gets very noisy. I wear hearing protection to preserve the hearing I have left. On the plus side, the spindle isn't adding much noise to the mix. I'd hate to think about how loud it would be if you added in the noise you get from a handheld router.
> 
> ...


Actually I thought about stiffness,and if I had built my own stand out of wood , and secured the router table to it properly , it may have made the machine stiffer .
To late though,as I dun goofed and ordered the aluminum leg kit. Sad part is the leg kit is going to add close to a thousand dollars when the smoke clears


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

The base would add very little to the stiffness imo. 
Lack of stiffness is mostly going to come from the aluminum construction, and rack and pinion.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> The base would add very little to the stiffness imo.
> Lack of stiffness is mostly going to come from the aluminum construction, and rack and pinion.


Well that makes me feel a bit better knowing I’m not gaining anything with wood. 
I sometimes wish I was better at welding and scratch built my own .
I’m just not confident I could get the frame as square and flat as I’d like . I was going to use 1/4” steel in hopes of having less chances of warping . Unfortunately all steel in Canada has exactly doubled over the last year, and I should have purchased it when I had the chance


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

I wouldn't work with steel if you paid for it. Dirty, nasty stuff.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> I wouldn't work with steel if you paid for it. Dirty, nasty stuff.


Same here , I’m more of a wood guy . I bought a welder out of necessity for my gym


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Actually I thought about stiffness,and if I had built my own stand out of wood , and secured the router table to it properly , it may have made the machine stiffer .
> To late though,as I dun goofed and ordered the aluminum leg kit. Sad part is the leg kit is going to add close to a thousand dollars when the smoke clears



Ouch!:frown:


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

ger21 said:


> I wouldn't work with steel if you paid for it. Dirty, nasty stuff.


Yep, until ya spray that Camaster Yellow on it! 😉


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I never noticed this till now. I believe this may be ScottArts . I like the jig idea while assembling. Not sure if one in the center is necessary though


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Those Canadians build some heavy duty cnc bases!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> Those Canadians build some heavy duty cnc bases!!!


I’d hate to move that puppy . I really do wish I scratch built a table myself ,but I’m concerned about my welding skills .
I seen a really nice build at cnczone where the guy made a epoxy router table . 
You build a dam around the steel perimeter, then pour epoxy in and let it set . Now you have the flattest surface you could possibly ask for


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

As gravity pulls down radially to the center of the earth, a poured surface always has a crown on it. A good large example is the surface of any lake or sea. Small enough to be hard to measure on a poured router table, but there none-the-less. I'd bet on a 4x8 CNC bed that a poured surface would still need to be machined by the CNC to get to perfectly flat relative to its X/Y movement. 

On the potential of leaving an area in the bed for vertical/angled clamping jigging I highly recommend it. I also recommend making it near the front (easiest to approach) side of the bed. Add the ability to drop a bed panel in so you can use the whole bed area when you need to. 

4D


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I seen a really nice build at cnczone where the guy made a epoxy router table .
> You build a dam around the steel perimeter, then pour epoxy in and let it set . Now you have the flattest surface you could possibly ask for


If only it were true. If you are really skilled, you "might" be able to get a "reasonably" flat, coplanar surface. Pertty much no DIYer can pull it off and end up removing the epoxy, or just decide to live with the numerous imperfections. They spend a lot of money on epoxy and a lot of time setting up the forms, only to end up with a mess. I had a flirting interest in epoxy leveling, but after exhaustively researching it there was no way I'd go down that road. The only way to do it is to have the machine stress relieved and then milled flat (with a big honkin industrial mill). Transporting the thing around is tough for the DIYer.

Gary


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I never noticed this till now. I believe this may be ScottArts . I like the jig idea while assembling. Not sure if one in the center is necessary though


If you look at my build thread on the Zone, I took a slightly (and IMO, easier) approach to jigging. Just used some 1/4" aluminum angle with holes matching the extrusion slots. Use a drop in T stud and tighten it down. Very fast, easier than dealing with clamps, and very accurate. I leveled everything with a machinist level and got everything spot on. And yes, using jigs is the only way to go. 80/20 has a slight amount of "wiggle room" when putting it together. Something I learned long ago when using the stuff for a variety of projects. IF you don't use jigs, the odds of getting surfaces coplaner are pretty much nil. 

Gary


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

4DThinker said:


> As gravity pulls down radially to the center of the earth, a poured surface always has a crown on it. A good large example is the surface of any lake or sea. Small enough to be hard to measure on a poured router table, but there none-the-less. I'd bet on a 4x8 CNC bed that a poured surface would still need to be machined by the CNC to get to perfectly flat relative to its X/Y movement.
> 
> 
> 4D


Don't forget the meniscus effect that always shows up on these projects. So, it looks like concavity, rather than a crown. 

I don't think anyone would want to machine the epoxy. Why not just machine the steel surface, or if too thin, weld on a plate and machine that? That's the conventional way of doing it.:smile:

Gary


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Don't forget the meniscus effect that always shows up on these projects. So, it looks like concavity, rather than a crown.
> 
> I don't think anyone would want to machine the epoxy. * Why not just machine the steel surface, * or if too thin, weld on a plate and machine that? That's the conventional way of doing it.:smile:
> 
> Gary


That would probably be the best way to do it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Ouch!:frown:


Yes ,by the time you pay the exchange ,taxes,duty, brokerage fees and shipping , everything is double by the time it gets on my doorstep .
It’s going to be one expensive toy


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I never noticed this till now. I believe this may be ScottArts . I like the jig idea while assembling. Not sure if one in the center is necessary though


I agree that two would do it. Just remember if you want to leave a little extra at the front for vertical work to allow for it in your jigs. Start at the back and work forward.

Of course you can add an adjustable section like 4D suggests for doing vertical as well as angled jobs.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well UPS is coming tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see how much the shipping and brokerage is . 
I really should have waited till I got my pass port renewed,and picked it up myself.
Guess tomorrow’s bill will tell me .
Hopefully the extrusion is with this order also , but it’s getting confusing


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well apparently they needed my visa number before they could proceed over the border for brokerage etc.
Guessing it will be here Tuesday


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

I remember that day!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well must be arriving tomorrow . Note to self, make sure you have a passport next time . Brokerage from UPS was an additional $842 . 
I could have had this sent to Montana shipping outlet and saved about $400 off of shipping , then picked it up myself for $20 worth of gas and had no brokerage fees . Would have saved well over $1200 .
Live and learn I guess


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You didn't have all this thunk out first??

Good thing you got a lot of money.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> You didn't have all this thunk out first??
> 
> Good thing you got a lot of money.


I forgot how bad you get violated lol . I’m not ordering another dam thing till I get my passport renewed .
It was supposed to be here by now , but there was some issue with my birth certificate that they didn’t have the first go around.
I swear I can’t win


That 1200 bucks would have probably gotten me some decent software


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Or for $100 worth of gas, you could have picked it up from Avid's parking lot and had $1,100 for insulation!! 😉


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> Or for $100 worth of gas, you could have picked it up from Avid's parking lot and had $1,100 for insulation!! 😉


Very true . Actually for about $30 in gas . Montana shipping outlet is about a 40 minute drive


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

Pro4824 said:


> Or for $100 worth of gas, you could have picked it up from Avid's parking lot and had $1,100 for insulation!! 😉


Obviously, you were kidding and taking a good-natured jab at Rick, but there is a point worth mentioning.:smile:

It all depends on what Rick is receiving. If the shipment is extrusions, I believe it's drop shipped from 80/20. It doesn't go to Avid first. If it did, it could double or more than double the overall shipping costs, e.g., ships from northern Indiana (80/20) to Avid in Bend, WA (just east of Seattle), and then from Avid to Miami, FL. Having 80/20 ship direct to the customer is way cheaper. 

If Rick could have had the 80/20 shipped to Michigan, the shipping costs would probably have been quite reasonable.

I've purchased quite a lot of 80/20 over the years. I live in Gig Harbor, WA, which 15 min. west of Tacoma, WA. The 80/20 shipping costs are quite high. I recently ordered enough 3030 extrusion & a 74" 80mm X 160mm for the gantry to build a 4 x 4 (I'm just finishing it up). I bought $2,929.88 worth. The shipping was $460.99.:crying:

Gary


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

I bought quite a bit of 80 x 160mm and 80 x 80mm, as surplus for $1 per lb. and picked it up in person. $375 for everything (about $2600 from 8020 before shipping). Enough to build my 49" x 60" cut area machine, then expand to 103" cut area when I build my new shop. Sometime it pays to watch for bargains.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

gmedwards said:


> Obviously, you were kidding and taking a good-natured jab at Rick, but there is a point worth mentioning.:smile:
> 
> It all depends on what Rick is receiving. If the shipment is extrusions, I believe it's drop shipped from 80/20. It doesn't go to Avid first. If it did, it could double or more than double the overall shipping costs, e.g., ships from northern Indiana (80/20) to Avid in Bend, WA (just east of Seattle), and then from Avid to Miami, FL. Having 80/20 ship direct to the customer is way cheaper.
> 
> ...


I’m just praying this is all together . If there’s a second shipment yet I think I’m going to claim bankruptcy lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> I bought quite a bit of 80 x 160mm and 80 x 80mm, as surplus for $1 per lb. and picked it up in person. $375 for everything (about $2600 from 8020 before shipping). Enough to build my 49" x 60" cut area machine, then expand to 103" cut area when I build my new shop. Sometime it pays to watch for bargains.


Ya that was the deal of the century. We don’t get perks like that up north :blink:


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

I’m just praying this is all together . If there’s a second shipment yet I think I’m going to claim bankruptcy lol

Wow Rick! Mine came in 2 shipments. 
80/20 and then Avid a couple of days later. (Hopefully) since it's crossing the border it'll all ship together.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Pro4824 said:


> I’m just praying this is all together . If there’s a second shipment yet I think I’m going to claim bankruptcy lol
> 
> Wow Rick! Mine came in 2 shipments.
> 80/20 and then Avid a couple of days later. (Hopefully) since it's crossing the border it'll all ship together.


I suspect it will . I just got an email , it’s here tomorrow. I’m going to clear a spot in my basement for storing it .
I think I’m going to lose a potential new job opportunity. I’m supposed to have a meeting today with our new contracted company, and I know they want to get established here right away . 
But I’m going to tell them I have things at home that need doing , so I basically do not want to start till oct 1 . If not, I know I’ll never get this done . 
The slow times are in January, but I can’t finish my shop in -30 .
I’m thinking just take my retirement and be done with it . I do like this low stress and sleeping in thing lol


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Since you special ordered the size it might all be cut to size by Avid and shipped together instead of the stand being cut to size by 8020.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well good news sort of . I just met my potential new bosses ,and although they were not liking the idea of me starting in oct , they were ok with me starting the first week of September. 
I don’t know how this will play out ,as there not even sure themselves if it will be full time or part time employment . I’m thinking it’s going to end up being busy, as I told them I’m fine with working out of town with a crew .
But it’s not going to help with getting my shop ready by any means . This is an opportunity I can’t really afford to miss though financially. 
I certainly wouldn’t mind getting a few more years of work in, as I’ll be 60 in a year and a half and be able to take one pension


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

This whole going back to work thing has me thinking. I’ll have income again , and could pay an exorbitant amount for the electronics from Avid now if I wanted . 
I really do want to build the electronics myself though , so it’s a tough call.

I am going to wait and see how this new job pans out first , then make decisions after that.
If it only turns out to be part time , that will give me a lot of time on my hands to build my own cabinet .
Tell you the truth though, I was sort of looking forward to not working for the man ever again .
But having some guaranteed income wouldn’t hurt either . I have a feeling I’m going to be one of those people who works till he dies and doesn’t get a chance to enjoy much .
Seeing as I’m 59 next April, it may not hurt to make a few dollars till I’m at least 60 . 

I was sure wanting a dual stage compressor and a Laguna bandsaw for the shop , so maybe I better stay in work mode for now


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

MEBCWD said:


> Since you special ordered the size it might all be cut to size by Avid and shipped together instead of the stand being cut to size by 8020.


Maybe, but I don't think so. 80/20 will cut to any size specified, so being a special size is not an issue. As I understand it from the folks at Avid, the extrusions are dropped shipped from 80/20. If it were otherwise, the already exorbitant shipping costs would become prohibitive. If the extrusions come in an 80/20 box, the extrusions came direct from 80/20. Pretty much impossible to open 80/20 boxes without tearing them up too much to reseal them for shipment. In every photo I've ever seen of an Avid shipment, the extrusions were in an unopened, intact 80/20 box.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok you guys called it , everything but the extrusion has showed up . 11 boxes so far .
The good news , we looked at the breakdown of the invoice , and it was around $88 for brokerage .
The rest was tax , so it’s not worth my time and trouble to cross the border for $50, as it would have been around $30 for gas,so I don’t feel so bad about this now .

So although I have no notification, I’m assuming the extrusion is on its way ?
Maybe it wouldn’t hurt to call Cory


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I just got off the phone with Cory , the extrusion is scheduled for tomorrow .
I mentioned to Cory that I may have found employment again, and if it works out I may end up purchasing the rest from them .
I’m really hoping this contracting gig works out . Ideally they’re like me to have my own truck, but it’s a little late in the game to investing in one , especially seeing as I’d have to finance a $200,000 truck after taxes . 
We need longer booms nowadays, so buying used isn’t a great option . A 44’ versalift would be perfect .
I don’t even think this has A/C? 
We’re in the mountains,so 4x4 is almost a must . Diesel is almost mandatory in these also , or the fuel bill will break you 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-heavy-truck...x4/1449527858?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Does this mean you'll be coming to the Vectric conferences now??


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

He spent all his money on his machine, and he hasn't even bought the software yet.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> He spent all his money on his machine, and he hasn't even bought the software yet.


Baby steps Gerry 
Speaking of which , I’m aware of verctric aspire etc, but is there any software that lets you take a picture of say mountains and make it into a 3D vector? 
I realize you would probably have to make changes in the program to get it right


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Rick,
> 
> Does this mean you'll be coming to the Vectric conferences now??


If I could ever get my passport figured out . I had an issue with my birth certificate, and it has to be figured out before they will start the passport process . 
Funny thing is I had a passport before , but now they are claiming my birth certificate is a temporary one. 
So I may never leave Canada at this rate


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ... but now they are claiming my birth certificate is a temporary one. (


All birth certificates are temporary, RainMan. In the end they get replaced with a death certificate. > That is unless someone steals your identity after you've passed. :surprise:


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> but is there any software that lets you take a picture of say mountains and make it into a 3D vector?


The answer is no, but what you want is a 3D model. A 3D vector is something entirely different.
There is no magic software that creates a 3D model from a picture. It takes skill, practice, and time.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Aspire has limited capability of importing a photo/bitmap and then creating a 3D raised component from it. You can change the thickness and a few other variables. Works best with B&W images. I've imported a bitmap satellite elevation scan of North America and turned it into a 3D surface with mountains high and oceans low. It was cut to be a 3D view under glass for a student's coffee table. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> Aspire has limited capability of importing a photo/bitmap and then creating a 3D raised component from it. You can change the thickness and a few other variables. Works best with B&W images. I've imported a bitmap satellite elevation scan of North America and turned it into a 3D surface with mountains high and oceans low. It was cut to be a 3D view under glass for a student's coffee table.
> 
> 4D


Wish you had a picture of that. Sounds interesting






ger21 said:


> The answer is no, but what you want is a 3D model. A 3D vector is something entirely different.
> There is no magic software that creates a 3D model from a picture. It takes skill, practice, and time.


I kind of assumed it would involve some work . Would sure be neat to learn though . Nothing I’m going to be to concerned about just yet ,but in the future I’d like to figure it out


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wish you had a picture of that. Sounds interesting


If I have a photo of that table it'll be at work on my work PC. For you though I've just done a quick google image search for a bitmap elevation scan of USA and this is what Aspire did with it on first try. I remember spending quite a bit of time with that student to get a smoother (perhaps less realistic) exaggerated height result for her table. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well 4 more boxes showed up . Actually 5 , because one from Avid was missing from yesterday’s shipment.
Seeing as extrusion is aluminum,it certainly seems heavier than I thought . Looks well packed


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

The big extrusions definitely have some heft to them, and are much stiffer than you might think.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Especially the gantry.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I start with a different company on Tuesday. It’s basically the contractors for our company .
I seriously did not think I’d find another job ,and was prepared to try to keep the lights on by working at home .
I don’t want to count my chickens before they hatch , but if all goes well in the 90 day probation period , I’m just going to purchase the rest of the goodies , the spindle and electronics etc .
I thought this new job was going to be part time , but it’s looking like full time work now, although part time would have given me the option to work on my projects more .
I’m just happy to be employed


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Especially the gantry.


I picked up the one box and assumed it was the gantry . Heavy little cuss considering it’s extruded aluminum?


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well I start with a different company on Tuesday.... but it’s looking like full time work now, although part time would have given me the option to work on my projects more .
> I’m just happy to be employed


Take whats offered !! J/A at my job is offered O/T and doesnt want to "kill himself" by working so much (22yo).
Doesnt even meet his 40hrs, go figure.

The more $$$ the more goodies, then back off if needed.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

UglySign said:


> Take whats offered !! J/A at my job is offered O/T and doesnt want to "kill himself" by working so much (22yo).
> Doesnt even meet his 40hrs, go figure.
> 
> The more $$$ the more goodies, then back off if needed.


Yes I agree, take what you can this day and age . There’s not a lot of decent paying jobs out their ,so I was more than happy at what they were offering me. 
But they are well aware that I’ve been in the trade for over 30 years ,and I’m a stickler for safety and following company practices . My previous boss obviously put a good word in for me ,as he likes my past work ,as I’m pretty meticulous.
I’m hoping this goes well , but if not, it’s not the end of the world


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## Larry42 (Aug 11, 2014)

I don't know what your intended use is so all of my comments may be way off the mark. I run a production shop so view things a lot differently than as a hobby user. I've had 3 CNCs. One had a water cooled spindle, never again! I think it was the 15 hp version. As for how much power to get: as much as your framework will handle w/o going into vibration. The actual power available goes down as you slow the RPMs. We generally run at 16,000rpm running a 3/8", 2 flute compression spiral & 600"/minute cutting speed in 3/4" mdf or PB. Turning a bit too fast and feeding too slow is a really bad combination. A very good source for the recommended feeds and speed is on Onsrud's web site. 
The combination of what software /code system you use is probably more important than most other things.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Larry42 said:


> I don't know what your intended use is so all of my comments may be way off the mark. I run a production shop so view things a lot differently than as a hobby user. I've had 3 CNCs. One had a water cooled spindle, never again! I think it was the 15 hp version. As for how much power to get: as much as your framework will handle w/o going into vibration. The actual power available goes down as you slow the RPMs. We generally run at 16,000rpm running a 3/8", 2 flute compression spiral & 600"/minute cutting speed in 3/4" mdf or PB. Turning a bit too fast and feeding too slow is a really bad combination. A very good source for the recommended feeds and speed is on Onsrud's web site.
> The combination of what software /code system you use is probably more important than most other things.


Thank you for the comment Larry . I basically wanted to make 3D carvings to sell , plus make myself some cool stuff . It would be handy at Christmas also . 
I was hoping to generate enough money so I could quit working for the man, but not sure if that is possible.
In the long run I can see where it’s going to just be an expensive toy . Would have been nice if it had payed for itself though.
As for power, I can’t foresee needing more than the 80mm 2.2 kw spindle , especially for 3D engravings? 
I may end up buying the one from Avid instead of the version I was looking at on eBay if my new job works out though


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You don't even have it built yet and already writing it off??


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> You don't even have it built yet and already writing it off??


Are you in shock and disbelief?  
It’s still something to fall back on if all else fails. Nothings written in stone ,as my new job could still go sideways . Kind of hoping it works out though


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

3D carvings are going to be the most difficult way to make any money. They take far too long, and there are too many people selling them for next to nothing.

Simple 2D stuff is where the money is at.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ger21 said:


> 3D carvings are going to be the most difficult way to make any money. They take far too long, and there are too many people selling them for next to nothing.
> 
> Simple 2D stuff is where the money is at.


I was wondering about this myself , especially seeing as the carving time is over 12 hours from some people have mentioned.
And imagine the power consumption running a DC and the cnc all day for some 3D carvings , not to mention wear and tear .

But the sky’s the limit for ideas


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

If you're cutting fine detail with a tiny bit typically used for those long cuts the I doubt you'll need to run the DC. They'll make their own small piles of dust along the cut path but it typically just stays in place and you can vacuum occasionally.

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> If you're cutting fine detail with a tiny bit typically used for those long cuts the I doubt you'll need to run the DC. They'll make their own small piles of dust along the cut path but it typically just stays in place and you can vacuum occasionally.
> 
> David


I never thought of it that way, great point David .
I’m praying this new job pans out , this way I’ll just keep adding too my shop till I’m happy with no financial concerns for the time being


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## Larry42 (Aug 11, 2014)

I think you will find that making low relief carvings is very time consuming. Even more so with a light duty machine and limited power. We occasionally do it for a good customer but I don't think we ever make $ with it. We've got 12hp on a heavy router and can do the rough out reasonably quickly. Then there is all the time with very small step overs and working into tight corners that seems to take forever. You can't leave the machine unattended because if there is a stoppage with the bit still running in the wood you will very quickly have a fire. Same method the Indians used! You mentioned engraving. That is very doable on a light, low power machine. I'd still go for the most power offered by whatever machine you choose, gives you options.


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