# The Credenza



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

So my current project I'm calling 'The Credenza', it's replacing a too-big-and-awkward-to-work-in entertainment center. There were several requirements of the design:

* Accommodate all of my current home theatre and stereo equipment, with a little room to grow (though after all these years I don't expect that)
* Very good ventilation, I have a few powerful amps (some tubes) that generate heat (fans are not acceptable)
* Ability for the entire loaded cabinet to move easily and smoothly away from the wall so I can get behind to install new gear, work on cabling, etc.
* Have minimal interference with the natural sound propagation of my speakers, and allow the center channel to sit directly under the TV
* Accommodate a minimum screen size of 80"
* Allow for neat and efficient cable management 
* Look attractive, fit our home's Craftsman design aesthetic, and hopefully achieve high WAF (she's very tolerant of my hobbies)

A couple years ago I built a system for a friend that I housed in a commercial cabinet that met most of these criteria – if had met all of them I would have bought it. I'm not embarrassed to say my design is a heavily modified copy of that cabinet. 

Besides the size requirement of the gear inside, the unit has to handle a lot of weight; between the equipment, wood, and glass, the total is closing in on 800 lbs – that's not including the steel caster base that will allow it to roll.

I use Visio to make drawings of most of my projects, I made plenty in my networking job, designed and made detailed drawings for our house, and for many other projects. I've been using it for almost 25 years and am pretty comfortable with it; while not as powerful as AutoCAD it's much more intuitive and perfect for most projects and work. I do tabs for different aspects like cabling, board cuts, and of course the specific plan and construction details. The picture below is an export of just the credenza itself without equipment, there are many more layers I can add on until it gets pretty close to how it will look sitting in our great room. Any other Visio fans here? I suppose the CNC guys have their own favorites and specific requirements.

I just got started cutting the plywood for the cabinet itself (3/4" Cherry), and have routed the 40 ventilation slots in the base. I drilled a single 1/2" hole and used a fixed router with and edge guide to make the slots. Let's just say it's good these slots are on the bottom and will be underneath equipment, though once I got the hang they came out pretty well.

I have a long way to go, including a difficult door build (for me anyway), and at some point I have to buy the metal for the base, have it cut and welded, and install the wheels. Much to do, I don't plan on tearing out the built-ins until the credenza is ready to go, then some additional wood flooring will be needed. Goal is to be installed before ski season starts in November.

I'll surely have questions along the way I'll post here (hopefully someone will be watching), here are a couple I have so far.

_* The other day when I picked up my plywood I covered it with a furniture pad while tied down in my pickup. After a couple stops I got home and noticed the pad had slipped a few inches in the wind, when I took it off I saw that about a 5" strip at the top had become 'sunburned' (darkened). This is an A1 piece so the other side will be the top and outside styles, but I bought A1 because I wanted the inside nice too. Any suggestions for evening out the color? Should I try laying it in the sun for a while? I plan to lacquer it so sanding and that will even some of it, and this blemish will be on the the inside. Any thoughts?_

_* Also, after slotting the base I'm thinking a chamfer might look nice on the top (more visible) slots (40 slots – 1/2" x 15"). Is this even feasible with plywood? The top cherry layer is about 1/8" so that would probably be the max depth (though hitting the next layer for a light line might look cool). I see chamfer/bevel bits with a lower bearing and 45 deg blades; using these it seems I'd want a bearing less than 1/2", use a shallow depth and I go around the edge of each slot. I also see V grove bits where it seems I could do it with a single pass, but my setup and skill may not be up to the task. Either way if I did this chamfer there are 40 more chances for me to screw up the important top pieces, but a 3/16" chamfer might look nice. Any advice for how to do this, or passing altogether?_

So that's what I'm working on, I'll try to not be so wordy in future posts, thanks for reading ...

Edit: I added a plan view showing the credenza and the new flooring


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow, That is an ambitious project. I will sit back and watch this unfold.
Herb


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Sorry I don't have any input for you Bruce , but I will be watching your project with great interest


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Credenza? Isn't that an Italian word for a real big piece of furniture?


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Step by step pics are expected. Dave Falkner may even come over and document it all for you. That could be his assignment that comes with his new title.

I'll be watching.


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Definitely looking forward to the pics of the build and the finished project.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Very hard to get rid of a line like this. A very light sanding will get some of it, but GO EASY. Cover the already exposed portion and let it even out some. It won't be perfect. Then stain to even it out. Try not to put mismatched sections together. Finish smoothly and then maybe a bit more thinned stain on the lighter sections.

Buy new wood and keep it covered? I generally buy ply a couple layers down so the color is more even.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Knothead47 said:


> Credenza? Isn't that an Italian word for a real big piece of furniture?


I guess it is Italian, and seems to have it's origin in dining room sideboards. I'm harkening back to the long low stereo consoles of the 60's, but yes ... very big!


honesttjohn said:


> Step by step pics are expected. Dave Falkner may even come over and document it all for you. That could be his assignment that comes with his new title.
> 
> I'll be watching.


I'll be taking some pictures, but nothing worth showing off yet, here's an 'art shot' at the end of the day, most of the plywood cut and the bottom slots complete.


DesertRatTom said:


> Very hard to get rid of a line like this. A very light sanding will get some of it, but GO EASY. Cover the already exposed portion and let it even out some. It won't be perfect. Then stain to even it out. Try not to put mismatched sections together. Finish smoothly and then maybe a bit more thinned stain on the lighter sections.
> 
> Buy new wood and keep it covered? I generally buy ply a couple layers down so the color is more even.


Thanks Tom, I'll give the cover and expose a try. I don't plan on staining as all of our cabinets and even speakers are natural cherry, but I use a lacquer that yellows over time (I like the look), that will help some too.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Thought I'd post this question again for those who couldn't wade through all my babble above ...

_* Also, after slotting the base I'm thinking a chamfer might look nice on the top (more visible) slots (40 slots – 1/2" x 15"). Is this even feasible with plywood? The top cherry layer is about 1/8" so that would probably be the max depth (though hitting the next layer for a light line might look cool). I see chamfer/bevel bits with a lower bearing and 45 deg blades; using these it seems I'd want a bearing less than 1/2", use a shallow depth and I go around the edge of each slot. I also see V grove or conical bits where it seems I could do it with a single pass, but my setup and skill may not be up to the task. Either way if I did this chamfer there are 40 more chances for me to screw up the important top pieces, but a 3/16" chamfer might look nice. Any advice for how to do this, or passing altogether?_


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

AudioHTIT said:


> Thought I'd post this question again for those who couldn't wade through all my babble above ...
> 
> _* Also, after slotting the base I'm thinking a chamfer might look nice on the top (more visible) slots (40 slots – 1/2" x 15"). Is this even feasible with plywood? The top cherry layer is about 1/8" so that would probably be the max depth (though hitting the next layer for a light line might look cool). I see chamfer/bevel bits with a lower bearing and 45 deg blades; using these it seems I'd want a bearing less than 1/2", use a shallow depth and I go around the edge of each slot. I also see V grove or conical bits where it seems I could do it with a single pass, but my setup and skill may not be up to the task. Either way if I did this chamfer there are 40 more chances for me to screw up the important top pieces, but a 3/16" chamfer might look nice. Any advice for how to do this, or passing altogether?_


Bruce I would use a bit like these.
https://www.infinitytools.com/ssearch?q=brass+pilot+chafer+bit

Herb


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> I guess it is Italian, and seems to have it's origin in dining room sideboards. I'm harkening back to the long low stereo consoles of the 60's, but yes ... very big!
> 
> I'll be taking some pictures, but nothing worth showing off yet, here's an 'art shot' at the end of the day, most of the plywood cut and the bottom slots complete.
> 
> Thanks Tom, I'll give the cover and expose a try. I don't plan on staining as all of our cabinets and even speakers are natural cherry, but I use a lacquer that yellows over time (I like the look), that will help some too.


Cherry is very sensitive to light/heat and will darken no matter what you do. Eventually the rest of the surface will probably "catch" up to the piece that has already been exposed, don't worry to much about the exposed piece. Use one of the bits that @Herb Stoops showed and you will be chamfering away! Just practice, practice, practice on scrap before doing the real thing. I set aside practice pieces in every project I make, this makes tool setup easier, and lets me develop the muscle memory I need so I don't screw up the real thing. By chamfering you will be exposing the substrate on your ply and it will be a different color wood. I like the look of a chamfer in ply, but some don't. Your practice cuts will show you what you will end up with. My go to finish for cherry is multiple coats of sprayed 2# cut of garnet shellac under multiple coats of lacquer. The garnet shellac really "pops" the grain. However, both shellac and lacquer are heat sensitive. My concern would be the heat generated by your equipment, it could cause the lacquer to "ghost" (turn milky). Again a couple of test pieces may be in order.

I really like the design you have chosen and I am looking forward to following along!


----------



## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Are you SURE the cherry layer is 1/8'? I have a good bit of 3/4" A1 Cherry Ply. I'd guess the cherry layers on mine are closer to 1/64". I've sanded through it in a few places when trying to match an edge. At any rate, I like the idea of chamfering your slots. The pilot bearing should protect you from overbite.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> Cherry is very sensitive to light/heat and will darken no matter what you do. Eventually the rest of the surface will probably "catch" up to the piece that has already been exposed, don't worry to much about the exposed piece. Use one of the bits that @Herb Stoops showed and you will be chamfering away! Just practice, practice, practice on scrap before doing the real thing. I set aside practice pieces in every project I make, this makes tool setup easier, and lets me develop the muscle memory I need so I don't screw up the real thing. By chamfering you will be exposing the substrate on your ply and it will be a different color wood. I like the look of a chamfer in ply, but some don't. Your practice cuts will show you what you will end up with. My go to finish for cherry is multiple coats of sprayed 2# cut of garnet shellac under multiple coats of lacquer. The garnet shellac really "pops" the grain. However, both shellac and lacquer are heat sensitive. My concern would be the heat generated by your equipment, it could cause the lacquer to "ghost" (turn milky). Again a couple of test pieces may be in order.
> 
> I really like the design you have chosen and I am looking forward to following along!


I have a few practice pieces going! I've only used lacquer on my cherry so far and it's held up to the equipment heat, but I keep it pretty thin. I'll get a bit and make some tests, I'll try a shallow chamfer just staying in the cherry layer, and another getting into the light section. Thanks


DonkeyHody said:


> Are you SURE the cherry layer is 1/8'? I have a good bit of 3/4" A1 Cherry Ply. I'd guess the cherry layers on mine are closer to 1/64". I've sanded through it in a few places when trying to match an edge. At any rate, I like the idea of chamfering your slots. The pilot bearing should protect you from overbite.


Here's a shot of my A1 plywood, if you're saying that the dark top layer isn't all cherry that's a surprise to me (but many things are!), my cherry shop looks the same. I've sanded it without noticing any variations, but I'll have to watch for that ... more tests.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

DonkeyHody said:


> Are you SURE the cherry layer is 1/8'? I have a good bit of 3/4" A1 Cherry Ply. I'd guess the cherry layers on mine are closer to 1/64". I've sanded through it in a few places when trying to match an edge. At any rate, I like the idea of chamfering your slots. The pilot bearing should protect you from overbite.


Looks like you're right, I took a test piece and started sanding with 220 and a block, I was able to break through to a lighter layer in a couple minutes. I guess I've just been lucky in the past. 

I'll probably do the chamfer anyway, we'll see when I make a test pass. I'm slightly concerned that the bearing will just transfer my slot imperfections and make them more obvious; if I could do a single pass down the middle the chamfer could be straight, even if the slot was imperfect, possibly ameliorating my work.

A side benefit of the chamfer could be airflow, if I did top and bottom I can just see the warm air pushing its way through the slot, and ice forming on my gear! :grin:


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Cutting repetitive slots like that, with varying lengths would be tempting the fates for me. I'd almost certainly make that out of hardwood strips. The tiniest wobble will ruin the entire thing. I can count on wobbling.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> Cutting repetitive slots like that, with varying lengths would be tempting the fates for me. I'd almost certainly make that out of hardwood strips. The tiniest wobble will ruin the entire thing. I can count on wobbling.


Just to be clear, these slots are not for the doors you see in the first picture, those will be made out of hardwood strips glued into dados in the door styles.

These slots are for vents in the top and bottom of the cabinet, I hadn't thought of making 'vent inlays', but if things go south I suppose that's still an option.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

I wanted to have a single page to keep track of all the pieces, I came up with these. The first is kind of a poor man's exploded view, the red lines show where each piece connects to the other; the second is the same view with some useful dimensions replacing the connection lines (each is a layer I can turn on or off). I'm working mostly off of these drawings at the moment. I consider the doors almost a separate project, they're not shown here.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Making progress, drilling dowel holes and dry fitting the bottom and styles ...


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Soon I will need to drill two holes through all of the styles to accommodate my 'cable trays'; these will actually be 1.5" ABS pipe which will not only route cable, but provide significant lateral structure. I have two challenges:

1) The OD of a 1.5" ABS pipe (schedule 40) is 1.9", for it to provide good structure I'd like it to be a snug fit. A 1-7/8" hole saw is too small (1.875"), a 2" too large. A 49mm would be about perfect at 1.929, but I only see diamond coated glass saws in this size (what's so popular about 49mm holes in glass?). A 50mm (1.96) hole saw would probably be ok and help with problem 2, but I don't find US sources for them.

2) For this to work I'll need to drill two perfectly aligned holes through the 8 styles shown above. The best method I can imagine is marking the boards in their dry fit position, then removing, stacking, and clamping them, then drilling a pilot hole through all the pieces. I'd probably have to remove pieces along the way and continue the hole though. I'd then use the hole for the pilot on the hole saw (if I can find the right size).

Does anyone have suggestions for either of these? If you look at the top of the exploded drawing a couple posts up you can see the two dark cylinders going through the entire unit. I still need to buy the ABS and test it in a 2" hole, but I expect it to be a bit sloppy. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

I am not much of a metric guy, but if my math is right 1 15/16 =49.21mm. Not sure, it is way to early to think about math! At any rate Grizzly sells both 1 15/16 and 50mm forstner bits. I would not attempt to drill the holes in a stack, too many ways for that to go wrong. I would make a drilling jig from a piece of ply, size it to fit you cabinet, drill the holes in the jig, and then clamp it to your individual pieces for drilling. With bits that size there is going to be a lot of tear out. I don't think I would trust a backing board. I would drill until the point of the bit just penetrated the other side, flip the board and finish the hole. 
Not sure this makes sense at 4am, I need another cup coffee. 
I like how this is turning out! Are you going to assemble in place, it looks like it will be way to big try and glue up and carry.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> I am not much of a metric guy, but if my math is right 1 15/16 =49.21mm. Not sure, it is way to early to think about math! At any rate Grizzly sells both 1 15/16 and 50mm forstner bits.


Yes, if I could get a forstner bit that size it would be a good way to do it, I'll check out Grizzly.


> I would not attempt to drill the holes in a stack, too many ways for that to go wrong. I would make a drilling jig from a piece of ply, size it to fit you cabinet, drill the holes in the jig, and then clamp it to your individual pieces for drilling. With bits that size there is going to be a lot of tear out. I don't think I would trust a backing board. I would drill until the point of the bit just penetrated the other side, flip the board and finish the hole.
> Not sure this makes sense at 4am, I need another cup coffee.


I think I get what your suggesting, I'll give the jig a try. I can see the hole possibly wandering if I used the stack. 


> I like how this is turning out! Are you going to assemble in place, it looks like it will be way to big try and glue up and carry.


Thanks Bob - I'll glue it right where it is in the shop, I'm figuring the cabinet without doors, glass or caster base should weigh about 135 pounds. I think I can manage that with a friend and a dolly, then I'll attach the caster base, put on the doors, and set the glass in-place.

Thanks for the ideas!


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Well I've been slowly plugging away on my project through one of the hottest summers on record in our neck of the woods. I've pretty much got all the cabinet pieces cut, slots routed, dowel holes drilled, and I've dry fitted it all. I'll start edge banding next, then sanding and finishing. I have a fun video I'll post when I get it off my phone and edited into one piece, and I’ll post a pic of the dry fit below (it even shows a sample of the glass I'll be using).

I've also decided against chamfering the slots, I tried it on the bottom of the bottom, and neither my wife nor I like the look. I also tried a roundover, which I thought looked good, but too many opportunities to screw up the top, and the look of the plywood layers is hit and miss. I'll post a couple pics below, the first one shows three slots, a deeper chamfer, then shallow, then none. The second pic shows a roundover.

And I’ve increased the size of my cable tray (ABS pipe) from 1.5 to 2”, more room for large speaker cables, increased lateral strength. I have a 2-3/8” hole saw and flap wheel, I’m hoping I can make a snug fit with the 2.38” OD of the pipe.

I've come up with some questions if anyone's still following along:
*- Has anyone used 3/4" edge tape (as opposed to the 7/8" that you trim)? Are there any tricks for keeping it straight as you install it?* It seems this is critical as you aren't trimming any excess. That's probably my next task.

*- Any thoughts on cutting or routing slots in ABS pipe? (routing a curved surface). *I want probably (4) 3/4 to 1“ slots running down the length of each pipe. There will also be a (16) 1 to 1.5” holes, but I can probably handle that. The wall thickness of a 2” ABS pipe is about 1/8”. I'll post a drawing below, the slots are in the middle running horizontally, the vertical looking cylinders are really just holes in the top and bottom.

*- Any ideas on sanding the inside of my 1/2" slots? *I've seen flap wheels, even have one, but I haven't seen any in 1/2”. It doesn’t need to be super fine, just clean up the rough spots and reduce some burn marks. There are 88 slots however so it needs to be something relatively efficient. (a wild hair addendum would be to try and paint the inside of the slots black to make them disappear, but I fear nothing but grief and potentially destroying the top)

Oh, I forgot, I must live in routerville, because a second neighbor had a barn giveaway (actually just stuff in the barn  ) I scored a free Craftsman 315.174771 router, it’s fixed base, but has niceties you guys probably take for granted: variable speed, a shaft lock, a light!, a trigger on the handle (love that!), even had a chamfer bit in it. This router made finishing up the slots on the top much easier, now two neighbors have given me routers and bits! Also scored some bar clamps, a new bandsaw blade, and a pair of nice wooden Adirondack style chairs that will be great on our upper deck.

Sorry, I guess I just can’t make a short post!


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> Soon I will need to drill two holes through all of the styles to accommodate my 'cable trays'; these will actually be 1.5" ABS pipe which will not only route cable, but provide significant lateral structure. I have two challenges:
> 
> 1) The OD of a 1.5" ABS pipe (schedule 40) is 1.9", for it to provide good structure I'd like it to be a snug fit. A 1-7/8" hole saw is too small (1.875"), a 2" too large. A 49mm would be about perfect at 1.929, but I only see diamond coated glass saws in this size (what's so popular about 49mm holes in glass?). A 50mm (1.96) hole saw would probably be ok and help with problem 2, but I don't find US sources for them.
> 
> ...


If the ABS pipe is slightly loose in the hole, is there a chance that you might get a "rattle" from vibration? If there is, consider a standard size hole that has a little clearance with the OD of the pipe and line the ID of the holes with some type of sticky-back foam tape to prevent any movement. If you want a "tight" fit on a non-standard OD, what I've done is made an MDF template using an adjustable hole cutter like this General® Hole Cutter - Circle Cutters - Ace Hardware to be used with a plunge bit and collar. Size the ID of the hole in your template to give the required hole size based on the bit and router bushing you use to cut the finished hole. With layout lines or stops on your template, you should be able to get the holes lined up so that the pipe feeds through.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> Well I've been slowly plugging away on my project through one of the hottest summers on record in our neck of the woods. I've pretty much got all the cabinet pieces cut, slots routed, dowel holes drilled, and I've dry fitted it all. I'll start edge banding next, then sanding and finishing. I have a fun video I'll post when I get it off my phone and edited into one piece, and I’ll post a pic of the dry fit below (it even shows a sample of the glass I'll be using).
> 
> I've also decided against chamfering the slots, I tried it on the bottom of the bottom, and neither my wife nor I like the look. I also tried a roundover, which I thought looked good, but too many opportunities to screw up the top, and the look of the plywood layers is hit and miss. I'll post a couple pics below, the first one shows three slots, a deeper chamfer, then shallow, then none. The second pic shows a roundover.
> 
> ...


Hope you can make sense of this.


----------



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I thought about this as I was typing, but hit "Send" too quickly. As you have a lot of slots to sand, this oscillating hand spindle sander may be just what you need.

Handheld Oscillating Spindle Sander | Grizzly Industrial


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'd probably use schedule 80 pipe. It is MUCH stronger. And fill any gaps with some stiff filler, like epoxy. Go up a size, 3 inch. cables with connectors attached will be hard to pull when you have enough of them in a a small tube. It will also give you more area to cut into if you want cables to emerge at specific location. Thinking about ventilation, I've found a number of small (computer type) 4 to 6 inch fans. Very quiet and they can be connected to a temperature sensitive switch. Only goes on when the temperature rises, and forces the air to dirculate. If you have an intake port, you can add a filter that will help reduce dust buildup, which adds to heat. Vacuum tubes are quite expensive and heat shortens their life significantly, so filtering sounds like an easy thing to do. You just have to have access to change filters. You can get filters in all sizes, and those little fans move a lot of air.

That's my 50 cents worth. 

Your project is really moving along.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> Hope you can make sense of this.
> 
> - Has anyone used 3/4" edge tape (as opposed to the 7/8" that you trim)? Are there any tricks for keeping it straight as you install it? It seems this is critical as you aren't trimming any excess. That's probably my next task.
> 
> The iron-on tape I use is 13/16" wide. Normally just iron it on, rub with a wooden block to get it down tight and then use a file - feed sideways so the corner of the file shears the overhanging edge.


Yes, I've only used the 13/16" (not 7/8) in the past. I read reviews about this narrower 3/4" that said you didn't have to trim it. I found a good product at a good price, a 250' roll for $26 delivered, I tried it today and it seems to work well. You can just center it with your fingers, then iron and press with a block like the other, but if you've centered it well there's only a 64th left which easily sands off. I'll know better when I actually do the finish sanding and see if it's really that easy. Here's a link if anyone's interested, I needed about a 100' and 250' here was cheaper than anything I could find, the quality seems very good and hard to see the seams. 
Edge Supply | Wood Veneer edge banding | Melamine | PVC Edge Tape



tomp913 said:


> - Any ideas on sanding the inside of my 1/2" slots? I've seen flap wheels, even have one, but I haven't seen any in 1/2”. It doesn’t need to be super fine, just clean up the rough spots and reduce some burn marks. There are 88 slots however so it needs to be something relatively efficient. (a wild hair addendum would be to try and paint the inside of the slots black to make them disappear, but I fear nothing but grief and potentially destroying the top)
> 
> _Do you have one of those drill guides that use a portable drill? One of those with a 1/2" sanding drum, may need to clamp a straight edge on the panel to guide it down the slot. https://www.amazon.com/SANDING-DRUM/dp/B0002IY0K6_


These drums look like they would do the job, since they have a 1/4" shaft, is there any reason I couldn't just put it in a router at the slowest speed? Seems like it would be easy and hold the drum at a perfect right angle.

I'll come back to your idea on routing the ABS pipe, but thanks for your suggestions!


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> I'd probably use schedule 80 pipe. It is MUCH stronger. And fill any gaps with some stiff filler, like epoxy. Go up a size, 3 inch. cables with connectors attached will be hard to pull when you have enough of them in a a small tube. It will also give you more area to cut into if you want cables to emerge at specific location. Thinking about ventilation, I've found a number of small (computer type) 4 to 6 inch fans. Very quiet and they can be connected to a temperature sensitive switch. Only goes on when the temperature rises, and forces the air to dirculate. If you have an intake port, you can add a filter that will help reduce dust buildup, which adds to heat. Vacuum tubes are quite expensive and heat shortens their life significantly, so filtering sounds like an easy thing to do. You just have to have access to change filters. You can get filters in all sizes, and those little fans move a lot of air.
> 
> That's my 50 cents worth.
> 
> Your project is really moving along.


Thanks for the encouragement, I did use your jig suggestion (from a previous post), to mark the centers of the pipe holes, I haven't drilled them yet, but think they should work.

I actually looked for Schedule 80 and though I can find specs for it, no one locally carries Schedule 80 ABS pipe (I want it to be black), even the specialty houses don't have it. I gave up and bought 40. 

I'll have two 2" pipes so I think there will be plenty of space for cables, two 3" pipes would block access to the equipment from the rear (I'll post a cabling picture when I get a chance). Only the XLR connectors are somewhat large, and only a few of them will go through the pipe.

As for fans, well, I have two VERY quiet fans in my system now and they are thermistor controlled, during quite passages I can hear them, hence my requirement in the first post that there be no fans (that's what all the slots are for!). I've had tube amps since I was about 12, and yes, both the amps and tubes can be expensive. One of my first design/builds was a set of power speakers for my guitar (speaker cabinets with tube power amps built in). They had a fans that were much too noisey but did the job, and playing guitar you rarely heard them. Anyway ... no fans. 

I do appreciate your suggestions though Tom, they are well thought out, I'm just kinda set on some things.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

tomp913 said:


> ... If you want a "tight" fit on a non-standard OD, what I've done is made an MDF template using an adjustable hole cutter like this General® Hole Cutter - Circle Cutters - Ace Hardware to be used with a plunge bit and collar.


I totally missed this link the first time, cool cutter. I don't have a plunge router, and I think my 2-3/8" hole saw will be a perfect fit for the 2" ABS pipe (my test cut was just slightly big, but I sanded it thinking it would be too tight), I'll make another test today. Thanks for the idea and link, very handy tool.


DesertRatTom said:


> Go up a size, 3 inch. cables with connectors attached will be hard to pull when you have enough of them in a a small tube. It will also give you more area to cut into if you want cables to emerge at specific location.
> Your project is really moving along.


Here are a couple drawings, the first shows the rear and basic cabling scheme, granted not all the cables are to scale, but it shows how they are broken up and routed. Even with 2" the power amps on the bottom start to get blocked. In the second pic you can see a side view of the deepest gear, it should have sufficient clearance, but not a lot of extra. But you got me thinking, I may draw in a 2-1/2" pipe and check the clearances, I'm going to wait to the last minute to cut the holes.

Note: Looks like even though I'm below 10MB, the site is reducing my first pic by converting it from .png to .jpg, it's loosing resolution.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Getting ready to start spraying lacquer, did one last dry fit ...
... for your entertainment :smile:


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

And it looks like the parts fit and holes and dowels lined up. that's the amazing part!!

Good show


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

honesttjohn said:


> And it looks like the parts fit and holes and dowels lined up. that's the amazing part!!
> 
> Good show


Thanks! Only one out of over 100 I have to fill and redrill. That doesn't mean the rest are perfect, but they fit. I'm somewhat amazed too, it's my first time using dowels, hopefully my luck will hold. 

Sanding and spraying lacquer now ...


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

The cabinet is lacquered and glued, no going back now, time to build the doors.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow , very neat Bruce . Your kicking butt here


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow , very neat Bruce . Your kicking butt here


Thanks Rick! 

My 86 year old uncle, a cabinet maker by trade, now retired (but still woodworking) came to visit today from Utah. I was a bit nervous, but he liked it, and shared a few tips on a dado jig for my door styles.

This has been difficult, exhausting at times, discouraged by mistakes, but now done with phase one. Hopefully a second wind will hit me tomorrow and I'll get going on the doors.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Certainly looking forward to seeing it in place and the equipment installed . I have to rearrange my living room and rewire my living room for the third time .
I'm wanting to put my stereo components on floating shelves above my subwoofer , as I don't have enough room otherwise with my future setup .
Your motivating me here seeing your accomplishments.

I was going to start a thread regarding power conditioners , and was hoping to get your input


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

I finally got back on the project this week and finished cutting the dados in the door styles. Before I cut and glue the crosspieces in I want to test the hinge fit. I’m hoping someone might have experience with this hinge, I have them in the cabinets all over my house, but I haven’t ever installed one from scratch or tried to adjust them. They are Blum hinges with the following numbers on them: 74.155 , —01.01 , 110-05 . I’ve tried googling for installation instructions, but mostly find newer models, or these for sale on eBay. 

I know they need a 1 3/8” hole 1/2” deep and I have the forstner bit for that. My existing doors have the hole drilled 15/16 to 1” from the style’s outside edge, but I don’t know which is better or if they have enough adjustment to compensate. I played with the adjustments but they seem to mostly move the door away from the cabinet (as opposed to left/right toward/away from the edge). Any advice or instruction links would be appreciated. Thanks - Bruce

Here’s a pair of styles for one door, the wider is the hinge side.
Added second pic of hinge on existing door, the one on the right has cabinet hardware attached.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Found this, think it will help with mounting hardware.

http://go.rockler.com/tech/RTD10315697AA.pdf

Also some YouTube videos on adjustment, think I can move forward.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

The doors are proving to be as difficult as expected. The pieces are cut from a 10’ x 9” board of 5 quarter cherry hardwood. From this I cut and dadoed the styles (after building a dado sled), and then cut about 80 cross slats at 1/2” x 1/2” (after building another sled for thin cuts) – ug, not easy! Today, most of the cutting is done, the hinges have been mounted in the styles and attached to the cabinet. 

Here’s a pic of the style pieces stacked together after cutting the dados, then after dry fitting the cross slats into the dados for the outside doors, the dadoed styles on the shorter inner sections will get cross slats next. I’m thinking of flipping the cabinet on its back and glueing the doors together in place.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to say this is one labour intensive project . Well worth it in the end though


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Just realized I should be spelling ‘style’ ‘stile’. I learned the word in the theatre where it refers to the vertical element of a flat (scenery). Haven’t thought about the spelling in some time, but like to get it right. I wish I could edit my posts and fix it, the limited editing on this site is one of my peeves. In any case I hope to have stylish stiles ... :smile:


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> ... My go to finish for cherry is multiple coats of sprayed 2# cut of garnet shellac under multiple coats of lacquer. The garnet shellac really "pops" the grain. However, both shellac and lacquer are heat sensitive. My concern would be the heat generated by your equipment, it could cause the lacquer to "ghost" (turn milky). Again a couple of test pieces may be in order. ...


So I just sprayed lacquer for the plywood cabinet, I’m happy with how it turned out, but I’m wondering about doing something more for the hardwood cherry doors which really are the highlight that will be seen most (and unlike the cabinet I’ll finish them after they’re glued together). The lacquer has never reacted to equipment heat so I think that wouldn’t be a problem. 

... but as usual a few questions:
* I’ve never worked with shellac and see it usually comes in chips, do you melt it in a glue pot, or mix it with a thinner? 
* I also see several colors, is there one that would ‘pop’ but not look out of place with the natural cherry lacquered cabinet?
* So I’d do a couple coats of shellac, then a couple lacquer? You just spray it like lacquer?

I’ll try to get to this at the end of the week, so if anyone has thoughts or recommendations here they would be welcome, either shellac & lacquer, just lacquer, or something else. 

Thanks -Bruce


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> So I just sprayed lacquer for the plywood cabinet, I’m happy with how it turned out, but I’m wondering about doing something more for the hardwood cherry doors which really are the highlight that will be seen most (and unlike the cabinet I’ll finish them after they’re glued together). The lacquer has never reacted to equipment heat so I think that wouldn’t be a problem.
> 
> ... but as usual a few questions:
> * I’ve never worked with shellac and see it usually comes in chips, do you melt it in a glue pot, or mix it with a thinner?
> ...


One of the beauties of shellac is how easy it is to use. I usually order my shellac from these folks: https://wellermart.com/t/shellac I highly recommend them. Shellac flakes are dissolved in denatured alcohol. For cherry I like to use dewaxed garnet, but that is a personal preference and I have never tried clear or any other color. I also use Bulls Eye SealCoat and shellac for small projects. If you order shellac make sure you order "dewaxed", using waxed shellac is still easy but it needs some additional steps, that dewax it. What "cut" I use depends on my finish schedule. I normally spray a 2# cut, but if I just want to seal the wood for other finish I will mix up a 1# cut. The difference is just how much alcohol you use per weight of shellac flakes. If you buy flakes, be aware that that it takes about 24 hours for the flakes to dissolve. 
One of the things I like about shellac is how fast it dries. You can typically spray another coat in about 20 minutes, which brings up another point, if you screw up it is really easy to repair. My typical schedule is 4 to 5 coats, lightly sanded in between with a 500 grit pad. The final coat gets a wet sanding with 3000 grit. If I am going to follow with lacquer I use the same sanding schedule. 
Shellac is sensitive to alcohol and heat, but is easy to repair. 
And yes I spray, however it can be applied with a rag, because it dries so fast, I have never had any luck with a brush. Shellac really brings out the grain in wood, your cherry is going to darken over time and you cant do anything about that, but shellac and lacquer should really make it pop. 
The picture is a kitchen island I made for our house, it is sapele, and I used clear shellac and lacquer for the finish, like cherry the wood has darkened some but it still looks as good today and when it was first finished.
One more thing, practice on scrap, do a complete finish schedule on your practice pieces, and then make up your mind.
Hope this helps,
Bob
I really like how your credenza is turning out!


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> One of the beauties of shellac is how easy it is to use. I usually order my shellac from these folks: https://wellermart.com/t/shellac I highly recommend them. Shellac flakes are dissolved in denatured alcohol. For cherry I like to use dewaxed garnet, but that is a personal preference and I have never tried clear or any other color. I also use Bulls Eye SealCoat and shellac for small projects. If you order shellac make sure you order "dewaxed", using waxed shellac is still easy but it needs some additional steps, that dewax it. What "cut" I use depends on my finish schedule. I normally spray a 2# cut, but if I just want to seal the wood for other finish I will mix up a 1# cut. The difference is just how much alcohol you use per weight of shellac flakes. If you buy flakes, be aware that that it takes about 24 hours for the flakes to dissolve.
> One of the things I like about shellac is how fast it dries. You can typically spray another coat in about 20 minutes, which brings up another point, if you screw up it is really easy to repair. My typical schedule is 4 to 5 coats, lightly sanded in between with a 500 grit pad. The final coat gets a wet sanding with 3000 grit. If I am going to follow with lacquer I use the same sanding schedule.
> Shellac is sensitive to alcohol and heat, but is easy to repair.
> And yes I spray, however it can be applied with a rag, because it dries so fast, I have never had any luck with a brush. Shellac really brings out the grain in wood, your cherry is going to darken over time and you cant do anything about that, but shellac and lacquer should really make it pop.
> ...


Wow, good info, thanks Bob ... first off your island top looks great, and the grain is beautiful, I can see why you like your finish routine. In looking at the different flakes it seems garnet is the ‘reddest’, I’m a little concerned that it might be too red compared to the yellow/brown look of the cabinet. Have you ever tried the blonde? (boy, that sounds like a leading line), or would it be too subtle? I’m just looking for a little more pazzaz than straight lacquer and I’ve tried to avoid reddish cherry. Or do you use the 1# / 2# cut to control that?

How about quantity, any recommendation on how much to buy? I have the four doors, and hope spraying at the right angle (probably about 45 deg) will get the slat insides covered. I’ll be able to sand the front and back with a sanding block, but a wedge shape sanding sponge will probably be the only way to touch the insides, so sanding won’t be easy. I’d guess I’d need maybe a half gallon mixed to do 2 or 3 coats, maybe less? I’ll probably hang them so I can spray all sides at once, but could lay them flat for better control and visibility, though it takes longer. 

Thanks again for all the help - Bruce


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Bruce,

Before you finish them you could always add a little "custom" touch if they have a lot of area. You can have most anything you want.


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> Wow, good info, thanks Bob ... first off your island top looks great, and the grain is beautiful, I can see why you like your finish routine. In looking at the different flakes it seems garnet is the ‘reddest’, I’m a little concerned that it might be too red compared to the yellow/brown look of the cabinet. Have you ever tried the blonde? (boy, that sounds like a leading line), or would it be too subtle? I’m just looking for a little more pazzaz than straight lacquer and I’ve tried to avoid reddish cherry. Or do you use the 1# / 2# cut to control that?
> 
> How about quantity, any recommendation on how much to buy? I have the four doors, and hope spraying at the right angle (probably about 45 deg) will get the slat insides covered. I’ll be able to sand the front and back with a sanding block, but a wedge shape sanding sponge will probably be the only way to touch the insides, so sanding won’t be easy. I’d guess I’d need maybe a half gallon mixed to do 2 or 3 coats, maybe less? I’ll probably hang them so I can spray all sides at once, but could lay them flat for better control and visibility, though it takes longer.
> 
> Thanks again for all the help - Bruce


I haven't tried the blond, and you can tell my wife, the brunette, I said so! 0 I would think that any shellac is going to bring out the grain, and what you use is going to be just your personal preference. In my experience the garnet just darkens, not reddens the wood, and brings out any figure. (Probably shouldn't tell my wife that). Shellac goes along way, and I would not mix any more than a quart. Here is a chart for mixing. https://www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html I buy 1 pound bags and store them in my shop frig, with other important shop necessities > I use Mirka Abralon pads for sanding in between coats, they are a little spendy, but last a long time. I can attach them to my sanders, or use them by hand. The number of coats I use is completely arbitrary and usually based on what I think the use of the piece is going to be. I did a quick down and dirty comparison cherry stick, with 3 types of shellac and General finishes ARS. It is hard to see in the picture but the garnet shellac brings out the grain a little better than the rest of the finishes. 
I think that is one of the benefits of woodworking, you get to do what you want, and as long as you like the results, who cares what anybody else thinks.
Again I hope this helps.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

honesttjohn said:


> Bruce,
> 
> Before you finish them you could always add a little "custom" touch if they have a lot of area. You can have most anything you want.


Beautiful work John, it surely does make them custom. I’d have a problem on several levels, I neither have the skill or the CNC to make anything like that, and (you may have missed the original drawing or the photo I posted on the previous page), the doors have no solid face and are just a bunch of 1/2 x 1/2 slats, there’s no place for a design (or better put, the open slat look is the design). 

Thanks for the ideas and photos, it really is nice work. 

Here’s another look at the design drawing (and Bob, I realize here it does look kinda red).


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> I haven't tried the blond, and you can tell my wife, the brunette, I said so! 0 I would think that any shellac is going to bring out the grain, and what you use is going to be just your personal preference. In my experience the garnet just darkens, not reddens the wood, and brings out any figure. (Probably shouldn't tell my wife that). Shellac goes along way, and I would not mix any more than a quart. Here is a chart for mixing. https://www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html I buy 1 pound bags and store them in my shop frig, with other important shop necessities > I use Mirka Abralon pads for sanding in between coats, they are a little spendy, but last a long time. I can attach them to my sanders, or use them by hand. The number of coats I use is completely arbitrary and usually based on what I think the use of the piece is going to be. I did a quick down and dirty comparison cherry stick, with 3 types of shellac and General finishes ARS. It is hard to see in the picture but the garnet shellac brings out the grain a little better than the rest of the finishes.
> I think that is one of the benefits of woodworking, you get to do what you want, and as long as you like the results, who cares what anybody else thinks.
> Again I hope this helps.


More good stuff, very helpful, and from the picture you’re right, the garnet is the color/shade I’m looking for and not red at all (though my first girlfriend was a redhead, my wife is a blonde). I will order some garnet tomorrow (and not tell my wife about the redhead). 

I also see that I’ll never be worthy, I not only don’t have the great tools and knowledge you guys have, but ... a shop fridge <sigh> now even though I’m ready for bed, I want a beer!

You’re right too about getting what you want. I could have bought a cabinet similar to the one I’m making, but there were too many compromises, it would have looked good, but my gear wouldn’t have fit, and it wouldn’t sound as good as mine will. Building it was the only way to get it right, and get what I want. 

More thanks for the help and education


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> ... I usually order my shellac from these folks: https://wellermart.com/t/shellac I highly recommend them. ...


Looks like they’re out of garnet, I’m looking at alternatives which are pricier.


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

AudioHTIT said:


> Looks like they’re out of garnet, I’m looking at alternatives which are pricier.


Try Shellac / Garnet 8oz | Klingspor's Woodworking Shop


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I have to say this is one labour intensive project . Well worth it in the end though


Boy that’s the truth Rick, yesterday I went out to try and start gluing, but sanding burn marks off the back side of the slats just took it out of me. Hoping I can regroup today and get back on track.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Ok, how many of you use these for your precision work? :laugh2:


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*Doors!*

Here’s the first door glued up in place, and working! I’m about done with the 4th and last door now ... I like it.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*A Stopping Point*

Well I’ve finally completed and lacquered the doors and everything is back together, this is pretty much the end of the woodworking part of the project; this times out well because I leave next week to spend the winter skiing in Park City (if there are any skiers in the group and you come to Utah, drop me a PM and I’ll meet you for some turns ... and maybe a beverage!)

As I said in the first post, I had hoped to have the credenza in use by now ... but I still have to: get the caster base welded, tear out the existing cabinets, have the hardwood floor extended into the old cabinet area, clean up the wall and wiring (adding some new runs for Dolby Atmos), and install this thing ... my schedule may have been as ambitious as my woodworking attempts.

In any case I’m pretty pleased with how it’s turning out. A few pics: the doors all glued up, back upright with all doors functional, a selfie in the tent after spraying the doors, and a couple shots of it all back together.


----------



## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

Looks great! What did end up using for finish? I loved skiing park city, spent a lot of my wayward youth there, my knees are way too old now.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Beautiful outcome Bruce . Love the color.
Looks like a beast to move, or are you going to disassemble sections?


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Bob Adams said:


> Looks great! What did end up using for finish? I loved skiing park city, spent a lot of my wayward youth there, my knees are way too old now.


Thanks Bob! I tried to order the garnet shellac but it was going to take a week to get it here, and I didn’t really have time to experiment, so this is just three coats of lacquer. It does have a nice warm tone, and the plywood and hardwood blend well. I might play with some polish in the spring.

Now a days people just get new knees when they wear out. :grin:


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Beautiful outcome Bruce . Love the color.
> Looks like a beast to move, or are you going to disassemble sections?


Thank you Rick! I’m happy with the finish too. I’ll take the doors off, but that’s as far as it goes. Just the cabinet is probably about 125 lbs so I think with another guy I can move it in the house, then mount the caster base and put the doors back on. It will really be a beast when it’s all together and loaded with gear!


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Any updates Bruce , is it working out well . Pics


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*Back on track*



RainMan 2.0 said:


> Any updates Bruce , is it working out well . Pics


Hey Rick, sorry for the long delay, just got back from Park City and a lot of skiing (105 days this season). 

Along with spring mowing I’m back on the project, one of my neighbors will weld the caster base for me (phase 3), we went shopping for metal yesterday. Soon I’ll start tearing out the existing cabinets, fixing the wall, and having the hardwood floor extended into the center (phase 4). I’ve also started shopping for the 80+” TV which is fun!

I’ll start posting pics again soon, in the mean time here’s a winter shot during a rare hike to some untracked powder, and another from spring in my “smooth criminal” look. :grin:


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*Phase 3 in progress!*

Last week I bought all the metal — 1x4 and 2x4 rectangular tube — and had it cut, tomorrow my neighbor starts welding.

Here are the pieces layed out on the bottom of the cabinet.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

The base has been welded and I’m actually using a router again to cut slots in the ABS ‘cable trays’. I tried a router table first, but it was too hard to cut in the blind, I then came up with this jig/holder. It’s working ... fortunately these won’t be seen.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cool idea with the ABS and router Bruce. Should make for some really clean cuts .
And you weld too?


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Cool idea with the ABS and router Bruce. Should make for some really clean cuts .
> And you weld too?


I’m getting one edge clean, then the second edge starts bouncing/scalloping because there’s a small leftover strip between the edges that vibrates. I could make three passes, but the second would be freehand, the edge cuts happen to work out by lining up the router base with the edge of the 2x4. The first pipe is about done, I’ll try the third pass and will remove less material from the second one, making it stronger too. 

No, I just went down to ‘Metal Mart’, bought the metal and had the guys there cut it to length, they even did the cutouts for the wheels which was a big help. My neighbor did the welding, he had his part done in about 3 hours, including bringing it over after it was tacked to test the fit. So I’m also drilling holes and mounting the leveling feet which will hold and stabilize it when it’s in place, they won’t take much weight off the wheels, but they’ll increase the front to back base about 5” (giving me more piece of mind having a 100 pound 85” TV on top <grin>). I’m nervous about drilling the axel holes, the alignment of the wheels will determine how level the unit is (though the leveling feet will help).

Here’s an updated rendering of what it should look like fully loaded.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

Things are moving along, got the cabinet and base moved into the Foyer to see how the the legs work on the hardwood floor. Then drilled the axel holes and installed the wheels. Everything works, though I still have a couple problems and details to work out (I’ll be back with questions!)

I’ve also started tearing out the existing cabinets, and will start cleaning up the power, network, cable TV, and speaker wiring on the wall this week. 

Here are some shots of the base with wheels installed, and the Credenza sitting in the Foyer.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

You sure seem to have resolved any ventilation issues. This is a unique design. Thanks for all the detail.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That metal base is intense . Great ideas you have there Bruce


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

DesertRatTom said:


> You sure seem to have resolved any ventilation issues. This is a unique design. Thanks for all the detail.


Thanks Tom! Yes, ventilation was a big part of the design as I didn’t want fans and have some powerful amps. There’s still the glass to go on top which is a key part, as it will let me set things on it (speakers, TV) and still allow the heat to escape through the vents. I could have used wood (and with the cost of the tempered glass I’m using it would be an economic alternative), but the glass will add a very nice visual and be strong. 

I still have what I envision to be a small router project to make the ‘pucks’ that will hold the glass up. Not quite sure how I’ll do it, but the design will be simple. I’ll post a drawing to get some input when I get a chance. 



RainMan 2.0 said:


> That metal base is intense . Great ideas you have there Bruce


Thanks again! Yes, the base is intense (and heavy), but it will need to support and move around 900 pounds! :surprise:
I was very concerned with drilling the axel holes as they not only support all of the weight and allow it to roll, but they also determine how level the whole unit will be. I’m very happy with how it came out, my first test (with an empty cabinet) I was able to roll it forward and back with one finger!


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Will be interesting to hear what you use for amps and speakers Bruce. Are you into this 4K thing yet? 
I sold my 65” Panasonic Plasma and bought an LG 65” OLED . I’m a plasma guy , but thought I’d take the leap ,as it had to be done sooner or later.
Patiently waiting for a better technology,like Micro LED to be the standard, but it’s not looking promising.
I use a Marrantz Amp and pre Pro , and Paradigm Studio 100’s on all four corners ,and the CC690 for the centrer.
My pre Pro doesn’t pass 4K, so I’m debating to buy a newer one , but of course I could go HDMI to the flat screen direct .
I like the built in music client in the pre Pro , and all the new ones go threw iPads unfortunately.


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Will be interesting to hear what you use for amps and speakers Bruce. Are you into this 4K thing yet?
> I sold my 65” Panasonic Plasma and bought an LG 65” OLED . I’m a plasma guy , but thought I’d take the leap ,as it had to be done sooner or later.
> Patiently waiting for a better technology,like Micro LED to be the standard, but it’s not looking promising.
> I use a Marrantz Amp and pre Pro , and Paradigm Studio 100’s on all four corners ,and the CC690 for the centrer.
> ...


Hey Rick — Sounds like you have a nice system, I like Marantz, Paradigm, and although I’m sure the Panny plasma was very nice, I’d expect the LG OLED has a great picture too! (and less heat?) I’m on the fence about where to put a streaming client, I currently think an outboard box gives the most flexibility as things change, but see the convenience of having it built in.

If you look at the drawing above in my post dated 5/28 you can see the visible part of the system. I have (mostly) separate Home Theatre and Stereo systems (what they call 2 channel these days). 

My HT speakers are B&W, 805S for L/R, HTM3S for center, and four SCMS for surround and back. Then a pair of SVS SB-1000 for subs (they’ll be replaced as part of this project). The electronics are Emotiva, an XMC-1 Processor, XPA-7 power amp, and XPS-1 phono preamp. Oppo UDP-203, AppleTV 4K, Mac mini, and Hopper 3 for sources (all the sources save the Mac mini are 4K capable). I also have a Nuvo Zone amp for outdoor music (needs to be replaced).

I used to have a separate stereo preamp, but to ease sharing sources (and because it sounds good) the XMC-1 now serves as both the HT processor and 2 channel preamp. The XMC’s balanced L/R outs feed a pair of VTL MB-450 tube monoblock power amps, which drive a pair of Magnepan MG 20.1 speakers (seen in the drawing flanking the Credenza). Using the XMC for Stereo also lets me add the subs in with the Maggies if I want. 

The new kid on the block will be a Sony XBR85X900F UHD TV — the big boy seen on top in the drawing. I’ll be moving from a 73” Mistsubishi DLP from 2010 (which replaced a 73” Mits from 2003). In fact the entire Credenza project was prompted by a desire to move up to 4K in a 80”+ screen size (the Sony is 85) — my current entertainment center cabinets I designed when we built the house, won’t accommodate a TV wider than 72” — the Sony and most other 80+ sets, are wider than that.

You can also see the gear in a drawing of my wiring diagram I posted several pages back on 09/07/17, it shows a Vizio or Samsung TV I was considering at the time, the Sony is a new entry in the 80+ category and looks great. I have it on order, but it’s very popular and it may be a month or so before I see it. 

The timing on 4K and tearing my system apart is very good, my XMC-1 processor also can’t pass 4K, but they’ve just released a (long awaited) Video card upgrade with HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2, mine will arrive tomorrow. So I should be 4K ready when the Sony arrives.

There’s more audio in the works, but I’ll end for now. Probably more than you wanted to know, but once I get going ...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I just looked at the new Marrantz processor and it’s 6K . Way out of my budget ,especially seeing as I’m unemployed in 13 months .
May have to settle for what I have . In my case I only want 5.1, so I may have to run several HDMI jumpers for video only to the flat panel .

I was debating to locate my amp and proccesor in the basement and just have a 4K player on a shelf above the sub , and use an IR repeater .
This way I could really clean up the system upstairs. It would have the benefit of being cooler also .
It’s tempting, as I am using two power conditioners,and was going to run multiple ac wires to the components.
Having the majority of the system in the basement would sure make it easy to access and change wiring etc


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well I just looked at the new Marrantz processor and it’s 6K . Way out of my budget ,especially seeing as I’m unemployed in 13 months .
> May have to settle for what I have . In my case I only want 5.1, so I may have to run several HDMI jumpers for video only to the flat panel.


$6K is up there, though Emotiva has a new $5K box due out this summer, it’s still considerably cheaper than what it competes with. I just put a long awaited UHD board in my XMC-1 so I’m ready for a new Sony display that should show up today (you’re in Canada? I think you’ll be able to see it!). At least Emo has made good on a promise to provide upgrades to the XMC-1 (Atmos next). You might consider keeping an eye out for a used one, probably well under $2K with the UHD board (HDMI 2.0B/HDCP 2.2).



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I was debating to locate my amp and proccesor in the basement and just have a 4K player on a shelf above the sub , and use an IR repeater .
> This way I could really clean up the system upstairs. It would have the benefit of being cooler also .
> It’s tempting, as I am using two power conditioners,and was going to run multiple ac wires to the components.
> Having the majority of the system in the basement would sure make it easy to access and change wiring etc


Two things would concern me with that plan, one - I don’t like long speaker runs to my mains (L/C/R), I listen to a lot of music and feel short runs of beefy cable aid the amps ability to control the speaker. What kind of distance are you looking at?

Second (and of more concern) UHD/4K and especially HDR/Dolby Vision, is VERY sensitive to cable quality and length. The ‘Certified Premium’ cables that can deliver the necessary 18 Gbps typically come in very short lengths (mine will max out at 8’). There are some active cables that can get 30’ to 50’ (maybe a little more) for $200-$300, most are recommending HDBaseT (HDMI over Cat6) for long runs, the better endpoints there run around $400. Having multiple runs of that would certainly pay for a new processor. I’ve seen some testing on less expensive solutions, I’ll keep you posted. I’d only want to do long runs if your processor could do UHD passthrough, so you’d only need a single long HDMI run (projector guys have to deal with that too).

I’ve been very busy on the project, the cabinet is roughly in place and looks great (my wife, who was skeptical of the big change in cabinetry, really likes it). Most of the equipment is loaded up and it’s holding the weight fine, but that’s just temporary. Flooring guy comes on Thursday, to extend the hardwood under where the Credenza will sit, I’m also cleaning up and consolidating a lot of wiring on the wall to minimize bundles into the cabinet — lots of cables for surround and now Atmos, as well as several outdoor speakers — working on built in power too. Glass should show up this week as well (the most expensive part of the Credenza!)

So I have to pull all the gear out and cover it up while the floor is finished, but that will give me free access to the cabinet again to work on power. Also have to take another crack at routing slots in ABS, unhappy with results the first time, may try blind plunging onto router table again. I also have to make the ‘pucks’ that hold the glass up, probably just some hardwood squares with chamfered edges, and decorative ‘plugs’ for the ends of the cable tubes (larger versions of same). Oh, new idea for the back (never designed one), standoff’s with some black panels to block light but allow circulation. 

Difficult, but fun having everything finally come together! Here’s a quick shot of the Emotiva gear behind the door.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looking great Bruce . Thank you for your input, as its much appreciated and may swerve me one way or another.
I was going to have all the equipment directly in the basement directly below the living room floor where it is now , so length wouldn’t be an issue . 
My other option is to build a new stand under the flat screen and have the amp and pre Pro installed there . Kind of low for IR of the remote , would be the only possible issue I could see .
I don’t like my flat screens mounted high on the wall like the current trend , so the stand would be long and low with the Center channel sitting on it.

I was wondering about your take on this pre Pro . Not getting stellar reviews , and was hoping they would come out with a next Gen 

https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/type=av-processor/model=avm-60/page=overview


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Looking great Bruce . Thank you for your input, as its much appreciated and may swerve me one way or another.
> I was going to have all the equipment directly in the basement directly below the living room floor where it is now , so length wouldn’t be an issue .
> My other option is to build a new stand under the flat screen and have the amp and pre Pro installed there . Kind of low for IR of the remote , would be the only possible issue I could see .
> I don’t like my flat screens mounted high on the wall like the current trend , so the stand would be long and low with the Center channel sitting on it.
> ...


Hey Rick! Well if cable length won’t be an issue, especially HDMI, then the basement idea would be doable. You mentioned IR, you’d use repeaters I assume? I’m on a crusade for IP control (and have been for many years), but it seems slow in coming, two steps forward one step back. What remote do you use? I use a Harmony Home Hub which solves most line of site issues, and with the Hub extender adds some home automation (controlling/scheduling lights and fountains, locking doors, etc), not perfect (and a little pricey) but pretty good and relatively easy to setup. 

I totally agree about mounting your screen low, the Mits 73” I’m retiring was perfectly seated on a stand about 16” high, it also housed my subwoofers and center channel. When seated you looked almost directly into the center of the screen (even more important with rear projection). I tried to keep the Credenza long and low, at 8’ feet it’s certainly long, but inches crept in here and there and it’s higher than I’d like (though the new Sony screen sits closer to the base so that bought me several inches). I too dislike the ‘designer choice’ of mounting the screen over the fireplace, convenient but way too high. I’d keep low screen mounting in your plan.

I also like Anthem, I had an AVM30 several years ago and it was a very good processor that sounded great! Lack of HDMI was the main thing that made me change (obviously a while back), and at the time they couldn’t route Audio from digital sources to Zone 2 (which drives my whole house Zone amp). The AVM60 would be high on my list of current AV processors, and I’m sure it helps keep the cost down to buy in-country, not to mention supporting the local guys 🇨🇦.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I am a huge fan of Harmony remotes . Bought the latest and greatest but never got around to programming it .
Still using an older version of Harmony that quit communicating for update changes .

Also have a harmony that is RF to IR outside to control my stereo in the garage . It gives me the ability to control the volume ,station, etc of my outdoor speakers mounted overhead in my decks ceiling .

Thanks for the heads up with the Anthem processor,as it may come to that .
Going to miss the onboard music client, but that’s with any upgrade


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*The Home Stretch*

The new floor is complete and La Credenza is now in place, it even has some gear in it. The picture below shows the new floor and what I call ‘the stage’, a hardwood area that comes out into the room and allows the unit to roll in and out. I still have to finish the cable tubes and their end caps as well as the pucks (in this pic you can see the glass being held up by plywood blocks). I also did a little video showing the unit rolling on the new floor, pretty smooth, and I can still move it with the weight somewhere over 700 lbs (that’s more than 300 kg for our international friends!)

The one piece of new gear has also arrived, an 85” Sony UHD TV, it deserves the much overused ‘Awesome’! This weekend we watched the first two Harry Potter’s in UHD and with an excellent DTS 7.1 soundtrack. The system is totally living up to my expectations and the hard work is paying off!


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That certainly looks sharp Ken . A lot of planning went into this project, and I’ll bet your very pleased with the outcome .


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

*Routing again!*

Back to doing what I first came here for, routing! My post on 5/26 showed my first attempt at routing 2” ABS pipe I’ll use for cabling, in the end I was unhappy with both the results, and my slot pattern, as it took out too much material. Who am I kidding it was dismal and that piece is going to recycle, I was so discouraged I put this task off as long as I could. I finally changed the design slightly, but more importantly came up with a jig to both guide the router down the pipe, and hold it a consistent distance away. 

The results were much better, I slowed the router speed down a bit, but tried to keep it moving quickly down the slot, that seemed to give me the cleanest edge. I was even able to shove my shop vac in one end of the pipe to help suck ABS chips out, I taped each completed slot to maintain vacuum as I moved down the pipe.

The first pipe slid into place fairly easily with just a bit of coaxing, for the second I had to sand some of the 2-3/8” holes (you may remember me fretting about drilling them through the 8 plywood sides and having them line up). Anyway the pipes slid in and even add some of the lateral strength I’d hoped for in the beginning, thought this thing is pretty beefy already. The cabling is now going well, I’m also making many of my own audio and power cables—balanced interconnects, bi-wire speaker, and Nema power cut to exact lengths—it’s looking good and well organized ... and the system is in use!

Here’s a couple shots showing the jig I came up with, and the first finished pipe.
... Oh, and Rick ... who’s Ken? :smile:


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cool looking jig system you got going there Ken , um I mean Bruce . I must have had one of my usual brain farts , certainly not out of the ordinary for me lol.

I just reread your previous post and an 85” flat screen should be incredible! 
What distance are you viewing it from Bruce ?


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ...
> I just reread your previous post and an 85” flat screen should be incredible!
> What distance are you viewing it from Bruce ?


It’s a big room, I’m about 12’ away. Once I quit rolling the Credenza in and out I might move the seating a few inches closer (already moved it up about a foot to compensate for new screen being about a foot behind the old one.

The big Sony is truly awesome, when you stand up close to it you kind of feel small (it’s wider than I am tall). Picture is incredible and I haven’t even taken out a calibration disk yet. It’s beautiful!


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow 12’ away with an 85” , that should definitely be a theatre experience! 
I’m at 11.5’ I think with a 65” and thought that was large.
I would have liked to have stepped up to a 75”, but there prohibitively expensive in an oled right now .
But I used to be 16.5’ away with a 65” , so it’s a much improved experience, especially seeing as a lot of movies are in 21/9 format and you lose a lot of screen


----------



## AudioHTIT (Jul 26, 2017)

No kidding they’re expensive, the 77” LG OLED is like $9K! but what a gorgeous picture. Mine was much more than I originally planned on spending, but the picture quality and size just won me over. Though I have a blackout screen I can lower over the windows, if I want the TV on during the day my room is too bright for OLED and their screens too reflective. This Sony has one of the best pictures shy of an OLED and much more affordable (though not cheap), blacks are really good and colors vivid but not over saturated, and it’s plenty bright (oh, did I mention it’s really big?)

If you look at the UHD charts, 12’ is about max for an 85”, but I can safely say I didn’t need to “go bigger”. We’ve been watching “The Crown”, the scenery is spectacular and sound is excellent too, only on episode 4 but recommended if you have Netflix. 

Still have some work to do on wiring, pucks, and end caps, and a shelf to build above, but after about a year La Credenza is in regular use!
...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looking really good there Bruce . Nice center channel too.
Can’t wait to see more pics


----------

