# Table saw short fence



## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Yesterday I bought a Excalibur fence with the sliding face for my table saw.the sliding face effectively can convert this biesmyer style fence into a short fence.I played with it tonight and am totally behind the short fence concept,and believe it is a great way to effectively reduce the chance of kickback.Short fences are the normal in Europe,if I understand correctly and after a very short time I am sold
Anyone else using a short fence and any tips on proper use and set up?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Got any pichers?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Yes, the heavy duty sliding panel saw at the Strathfield Men's shed 
has a fence that can be adjusted for length.

I use it all the time for cutting short lengths after they have been ripped to width.

I have the fence set so that the timber does not touch the fence just before the timber hits the blade.

There is also a fence on the sliding section that is 90° to the blade that backs up the timber so a mitre gauge is not required.

Just my 2cents...


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## normie2 (Feb 14, 2010)

would like to see a picture of this fence


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

I saw a youtube about using short fences and have been wondering. I hope some members will share their experiences with them.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

A tip for anyone who has a Delta Unifence, Peach Tree Woodworking Woodworking tools, supplies, plans, accessories and more - ptreeusa.com
sells a replacement fence extrusion called a "Uni-T-Fence that's square and has T slots on the top and sides. They also sell this in several lengths up to 43" and a short 16" version. All attach to the Unifence base just like the original Unifence extrusion with no modifications required, so they can be slid forward or back to have any length working portion of the fence that you want. The Unifence extrusion was once available in a short 16" version, but these as well as the whole Unifence has sadly been discontinued. I still use my original Unifence extrusion because it has a few features not available in the Uni-T-Fence, like the short fence capability, but I like and use the Uni-T-Fence when feather boards are needed. The short version of the Uni-T-Fence is great to use as a stop when cross cutting many pieces, and it can also be used like the European style fence for ripping. This makes my original Unifence package much more versatile.
The Uni-T-Fence (all sizes) are available here Uni T Fence 


Charley


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

al m said:


> I played with it tonight and am totally behind the short fence concept, and believe it is a great way to effectively reduce the chance of kickback.Short fences are the normal in Europe, if I understand correctly and after a very short time I am sold


Hi Al

Yes, well, I've been sold on them for about 40 or so years..... I was trained on them and whenever I've had to use a table saw without one I've ended-up making-up an auxilliary fence plate to give me some of the same functionality. And yes, they are the norm in Europe and have been for many years



al m said:


> Anyone else using a short fence and any tips on proper use and set up?


For ripping set the far end of the fence so that it only just passes the leading tooth gullets. For sheet materials you can go further, but I tend not to so that I avoid trapping. If your fence has a high-low setting, use the low fence setting when making bevel cuts and narrow cuts, and run the fence a bit further forwards to give extra support - but no further than about 1/2 of the blade width. That way you can keep the riving knife and guard in place when doing these cuts. Use good, long push sticks, about 16in long, with birdsmouths to guide the last 18in or so of the cut. I generally have two on the saw. And of course always make sure that your saw has sufficiant run-off support for long pieces

That's it really. They're simplicity itself to use - and far, far safer that the Biesmeyer-type fence, partly because you don't have to take the guards off for bevel rips

There's a PDF on the UK HSE website here which explains all this, together with diagrams. Maybe a useful read for anyone usimg a table saw

Regards

Phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> I use it all the time for cutting short lengths after they have been ripped to width.


Hi James 

A crosscut saw with a fixed stop (or a flip-over) would be faster and less effort - especially if you are doing a hundred or more. Just my 2cents...

Regards

Phil


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Phil P said:


> Hi James
> 
> A crosscut saw with a fixed stop (or a flip-over) would be faster and less effort - especially if you are doing a hundred or more. Just my 2cents...
> 
> ...


Good point, Phil. I walked right past the crosscut saw to use the table saw....


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Here it is with the sliding face in the tall poition


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

And without the face attached,there is a bar that the extrusion slides over,then is locked it with the handle on top


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

And here with the face in the low position


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

View of the backside,the face can be attached here as well but only as a long fence


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Al this looks very simular to mine , as it removes and can be put on either side , but mine won't slide . I wonder if that's an option I can add ?


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I think it is the same Rick,it does not slide in use,you slide it to the position you want to use it in,then lock it in place,as a short or long fence.
Your saw is much nicer than mine,looks like a general,


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

al m said:


> I think it is the same Rick,it does not slide in use,you slide it to the position you want to use it in,then lock it in place,as a short or long fence.
> Your saw is much nicer than mine,looks like a general,


Ok I misunderstood . I thought the fence was sliding from front to back in use . I'm not up on my terminology as I haven't heard of a long fence and a short fence . I guess ones longer lol? 

And yes it's a GI


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Al are those slots on the right wing for attaching a router fence ?


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Al are those slots on the right wing for attaching a router fence ?


Ya,take a look at my kitchen Reno thread,I think it shows them in use there
What model is the gi? Does it have a riving knive?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

al m said:


> Ya,take a look at my kitchen Reno thread,I think it shows them in use there
> What model is the gi? Does it have a riving knive?


I think it's the 270 model from memory(it's a tank at 453 pounds) and yes it came with a knife and I refuse to use it . I was debating to make a hood out of 1/2 lexan and hook it up to my dust extractor . It has the lower hole to hook up the vac but I would like less dust yet in the future if at all possible, especially when cutting MDF


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> I think it's the 270 model from memory(it's a tank at 453 pounds) and yes it came with a knife and I refuse to use it . I was debating to make a hood out of 1/2 lexan and hook it up to my dust extractor . It has the lower hole to hook up the vac but I would like less dust yet in the future if at all possible, especially when cutting MDF


I won't scold you Rick,but wish I had a riving knife,if I buy new,that will be why


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I've been using a short fence for decades, it's brand name is "Block of wood and Clamp" inexpensive and easy to use with weensy stuff. I gotta buy one of those thin rip TS jigs, anyone know how fine the tuning is, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> I walked right past the crosscut saw to use the table saw....


One of the things you get taught from the off, James - always find the quickest tool to do the job - it'll generally be the safest, too. I was also taught that for 95% of the cuts we do the crown guard and riving knife stay on. It becomes second nature after a while

Regards

Phil


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Hi James
> 
> A crosscut saw with a fixed stop (or a flip-over) would be faster and less effort - especially if you are doing a hundred or more. Just my 2cents...
> 
> ...


Assuming you have one. I have always used TS with a short rip fence and a stop block on the cross cut fence for the last piece. All setup so that the job wasn't touching the rip fence by the time the blade was cutting. I always have a concern that both fences are set up to exactly the same measurement. What I do at the moment is to set up the rip fence and cut one piece. Then use that piece as the template to setup the stop on the cross cut fence.

Darryl


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

darsev said:


> Assuming you have one. I have always used TS with a short rip fence and a stop block on the cross cut fence for the last piece. All setup so that the job wasn't touching the rip fence by the time the blade was cutting. I always have a concern that both fences are set up to exactly the same measurement. What I do at the moment is to set up the rip fence and cut one piece. Then use that piece as the template to setup the stop on the cross cut fence.
> 
> Darryl


I had to cut quite a few pieces at 27" today,set the short fence exactly as you said and used my Incra miter gauge with shop built long fence.worked great


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

darsev said:


> Assuming you have one.


Hi Darryl

As a working carpenter/joiner (sort of trim carpenter) I have several (four, in fact), so it isn't something I'd normally give a second thought to. I prefer not to use a table saw for crosscutting partly because swappping blades all the time to make say two rip cuts, then two or three cross cuts, then another rip cut, etc is time consuming - and in any case I'm never happy with the quality of cut I get on so-called univerals or combination blades (at least with solid wood). Man-made materials are, however, somewhat different because they obviously have no real grain direction, othe than the surface veneers (veneered). The other thing about crosscutting on a table saw is that, especially if you were manhandling large pieces, such as 12 x 3in oak joists, it would quickly become extremely tiring - another reason why joiners head for the crosscut

Regards

Phil


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

bottom line for me after making sawdust steady,a adjustable fence,short fence,is far superior to the traditional North American standard long fence
I am hooked,not looking back and seriously thinking of taking the European example and getting a table saw equipped with a riving knife


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Hi Darryl
> 
> As a working carpenter/joiner (sort of trim carpenter) I have several (four, in fact), so it isn't something I'd normally give a second thought to. I prefer not to use a table saw for crosscutting partly because swappping blades all the time to make say two rip cuts, then two or three cross cuts, then another rip cut, etc is time consuming - and in any case I'm never happy with the quality of cut I get on so-called univerals or combination blades (at least with solid wood). Man-made materials are, however, somewhat different because they obviously have no real grain direction, othe than the surface veneers (veneered). The other thing about crosscutting on a table saw is that, especially if you were manhandling large pieces, such as 12 x 3in oak joists, it would quickly become extremely tiring - another reason why joiners head for the crosscut
> 
> ...


Phil,

I understand what you are saying, and I would probably do something similar if I was in your position. Although I have spent time in a cabinet making factory, currently my day job is IT and I do not have the physical room for any more saws. I learnt a lot of tricks with table saws when I was at the factory and for the small jobs that I do my current TS has about a 90% fit. I do have a 254mm (10") 80 tooth fine cut blade on it and that leaves a good cut whether rip or cross cut, so I don't have to keep changing blades, but I do need to adjust feed rates to the timber being cut. I miss having the digital rip fence and flip stops on the cross cut that we had at the factory, but you can get the same results with clamps and blocks of timber if you take a bit more time. I think the biggest trick I learnt was to use 2 stop blocks to function as a flip stop.

Thanks for you comments - it is always good to have a different point of view and I would love to have a workshop where I didn't have to keep resetting equipment all the time. I won't be getting 4 drop saws like you - just physically impossible, but you do make me think about how I use the equipment I do have.

Darryl


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

CharleyL said:


> The Uni-T-Fence (all sizes) are available here...
> Charley


Charley--
I bought one of those and adapted it to use on my Laguna TSS. I really like that fence.

You can see if over on the right:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

al m said:


> Yesterday I bought a Excalibur fence with the sliding face for my table saw.the sliding face effectively can convert this biesmyer style fence into a short fence.I played with it tonight and am totally behind the short fence concept,and believe it is a great way to effectively reduce the chance of kickback.Short fences are the normal in Europe,if I understand correctly and after a very short time I am sold
> Anyone else using a short fence and any tips on proper use and set up?


I have not used one of those. A close friend has a Delta Unifence,I think it is on his General saw and really likes the hi/low feature of the extrusion. Also he has tried the short fence version and says it works great ,but the long fence sticking out behind the saw is a nuisance.

My Question is Why? Why do they make them so long if they are so great short?

Why are not the American versions of table saws using them.

Since they are safer, why are they still selling long ones?

HMMMMMM........................Anyone with any answers? 

Herb


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> I have not used one of those. A close friend has a Delta Unifence,I think it is on his General saw and really likes the hi/low feature of the extrusion. Also he has tried the short fence version and says it works great ,but the long fence sticking out behind the saw is a nuisance.
> 
> My Question is Why? Why do they make them so long if they are so great short?
> 
> ...


Herb,

Just from my limited experience, a short fence is something you use in a specific situation which is basically a cross where the cut is finished before the leading edge of the timber reaches the splitter/riving knife. The name short is not so much about the length of the fence but because it finishes short of the saw blade, and this gives the job some room to move safely if the saw blade starts twisting it.

A long fence is useful when ripping. This gives a greater contact area to hold the job against and stop twisting because you can't hold it dead straight against the blade. If your friend says the long fence sticking out is a nuisance, then my first question is why he doesn't slide it back in when the short fence isn't required. 

Darryl


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

darsev said:


> Herb,
> 
> Just from my limited experience, a short fence is something you use in a specific situation which is basically a cross where the cut is finished before the leading edge of the timber reaches the splitter/riving knife. The name short is not so much about the length of the fence but because it finishes short of the saw blade, and this gives the job some room to move safely if the saw blade starts twisting it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the explanation,Darryl,
My impression was that you can rip any length material and when the cut passes the teeth that it doesn't need a fence. You have the part sticking out the back to keep it straight as you feed it through.
I guess the reason he didn't retract the fence after the cut was he had more to cut a short time later. 
It is safer because once the material passes the teeth ,it doesn't need to be pushed on through.

Herb


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Thanks for the explanation,Darryl,
> My impression was that you can rip any length material and when the cut passes the teeth that it doesn't need a fence. You have the part sticking out the back to keep it straight as you feed it through.
> I guess the reason he didn't retract the fence after the cut was he had more to cut a short time later.
> It is safer because once the material passes the teeth ,it doesn't need to be pushed on through.
> ...


Now you mention about the rip, I am not sure why I was taught to put the rip fence up to the splitter. I know it works though, as one of my frequent jobs was to rip 2400 x 73 (about 8' x almost 3") into 2 @ 2400 x 35. I would have 30-50 at a time and never had any jamming or kickbacks. The biggest issue was keeping such a long thin piece flush against the fence, and I would pull it out as far as I could on the lead-in side.

Darryl


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