# Intro and Leigh D4R question



## dovetail65 (May 16, 2009)

Hi All,

My name is Gary and I'm from the Chicago area. I'm pretty much a hobbyist woodworker, but I've been getting more advanced with each passing year. I've built some furniture, shelves, drawers, desk, etc. I'm still learning with each project.

I recently purchased a Leigh D4R jig and have been having a heck of a time producing "perfect" joints. The joining boards are always misaligned on the board edges by about 1/16 and it's driving me crazy. I've been going back and forth with Leigh tech support this past week to no avail.

Yesterday I noticed something that could be the problem though and I'm hoping someone with a D4R could answer my question. I'd call Leigh again, but it's the weekend and they have Monday off for the Queens B-day and it would be great to know the answer now.

Here's my question. Are the HB Pin Guide Rail and the Finger Guide Rail supposed to be the same length? My Finger Guide Rail is 26.75" and the HB Pin Guide Rail is 26 and 3/16". I think this may be my problem since the fingers move when I tighten the brass thumb screws. I'm not an engineer though so maybe it's by design and there's something else wrong. The illustration in the user manual shows them as being the same length, but I can't be sure.

Any responses are appreciated. Thanks. Gary


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Gary and welcome to the forum. I cannot help you but someone will be along that can. Again welcome, we are glad you came aboard.


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## Woodwreck (Jun 21, 2009)

You probably have your answer from Leigh by now, but I believe you were provided the wrong finger guide - the D4R and the other Super 24" or whatever use different ones - which is what happened to me and the retailer exchanged it. A photo would help but Leigh is very good and I am sure you are humming along.


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## dovetail65 (May 16, 2009)

*Update:* I ended up returning the D4R to the retail store and ordering another one thinking that this one was bad somehow. I picked up the new one a few weeks ago. Last night I finally had time to see if this new jig solved my problem. Sure enough...it didn't! The joining boards are still misaligned on their edges by about 1/16. I'm really at wits end with this problem. I don't know what's causing it.

All I'm trying to do is make some drawers out of 1/2" red oak using HB dovetails. I can create good fitting dovetails, but, once again, the 2 boards are misaligned at the edges.

I've done quite a bit of research on this and according to Leigh...
1. It has nothing to do with how centered the bit is in the router. If the bit is off center then it will be off center on the joining board thus canceling each other out.

2. I've checked the squareness of the jig where the two boards meet. Good.

3. I've read the manual about 50 times. (Good manual by the way)

Is it somehow my router? Could it be the that the D4R can't produce flush joints with 1/2" boards? (That's all I've been trying with since that's what I'm trying to make) Hard to believe.

If I figure out a way to post a photo of my problem I will. Any input would be appreciated.

G


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## dovetail65 (May 16, 2009)

Here's some photos.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I have a D4R and have never experienced the problem that you are having, but I have an idea for something to try. Place a board with a good edge in the vertical clamps against the side stops and another in the horizontal clamps against the side stops, so that the horizontal board crosses over the end of the vertical board. Now check to see if the edges of the two boards are in line with each other where they cross. If they are both positioned against the side stops and clamped correctly, the edges of both boards should be in line with each other. When they are both correctly positioned and clamped they should align. If they can't be aligned, there is a problem with the jig and how it was machined at the factory. If they are aligned, then either you aren't positioning your project boards tightly against the side stops when you cut them, or the board clamps are slipping during your cuts. A good fitting dovetail pair that is off position on the edges can be caused when the boards are not aligned and held tightly against the side stops during the cut.
The only other possibility is that the finger assembly is somehow shifting sideways by 1/16 when you switch from pins to tails, and I can't see how this could be happening if you are carefully locking it into position. 

You seem to be getting a lot of chip-out. Are you making slow passes with the router and allowing the bit to make the cut or are you forcing the bit through the wood? You can reduce chip-out by making a light scoring cut before making the dovetail cut, then cut through to the back in one place and then make a similar cut across the back before removing the bulk of the wood. Repeat this for each tail or pin that you cut. 

Please let us know what you find.

CharleyL


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## Woodwreck (Jun 21, 2009)

*Help with your DT problem*

Gary, It's Monday the 29th and I just received your thread posting of 6-25 - I don't understand why the delay and hope an administrator is reading these...

Anyway, I am using my D4R for 1/2" stock and love it. I started off at 3/4 to learn and promptly went to 1/2, normally a recipe for disaster.

If you get this today, send me a PM, and hopefully we can work together and solve it likity split.

Your boards seem to be pretty rough cut in the photos - while that isn't relevant to the offset, sharp clear cuts do improve things.

Anyway, I have my D4R setup with half inch stock and would be happy to go through it with you.


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## Woodwreck (Jun 21, 2009)

Anyway, it appears your two boards are not exactly same width or the front board wasn't quite against the guard when cutting.


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## dovetail65 (May 16, 2009)

Thanks for your input Steven and Charles. I don't think I completely solved the problem, but I sure have helped it. I'm embarrassed to say it was mostly my problem, mainly because of my inexperience with the jig. And discovering it's little quirks.

The D4R user manual says when clamping the stock it's OK to have the right side of the top clamp clamped down with nothing underneath it as long as the bar is "bent/curved" only about 1/8". I took this to heart and followed instructions. Well, when I did this, the stock I was routing the pins in would move from the front side stop just a hair. I couldn't see this because the guide fingers were obstructing it. The stock was still up against the rear side stop though.

When I put a piece of 1/2" scrap under the right clamp my stock stopped moving. The edges are still not completely flush, but it's only off by about 1/32" now. I can deal with that. Although it would be nice to get perfect edges. I don't know how to get my stock any more square though. I'm still somewhat of a wet behind the ears woodworker so here's a question...what type of table saw blade should I use when preparing stock for the jig? Something like a laminate blade?

Regarding my pictures...I was trying to solve this problem when I took those pictures and I didn't care about chip out. They were to simply show my edge issue. Now that I know how to solve this edge issue, I'm taking it a little slower and getting much less chip out.

Thanks again..Gary


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

No jig, no matter how well made, can make accurate joints if your stock is not straight and flat. Learning to properly rip, crosscut, plane and joint your stock is critical to any well made project.
As for the saw blade any quality carbide tipped combination or rip blade should work well. I always leave the rip cut a bit strong so that when I run the edge through the jointer I'm left with the correct size. The jointer or a sharp hand plane will remove any swirl marks left by the saw blade like the ones that appear on your drawer side.


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## Woodwreck (Jun 21, 2009)

*same thing*

jmg says it all and so does the manual in opening chapter. Don't get too carried away in fancy, costly, blades - just decent blade. Check Freud among others.Be sure wood is against left stop - scrap blank in right side is advisable whether or not stated in manual.


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

dovetail65 said:


> so here's a question...what type of table saw blade should I use when preparing stock for the jig? Something like a laminate blade?
> 
> 
> Thanks again..Gary


I have a Forest Woodworker II, which although quite expensive, is a great blade and which leaves an edge which appears almost sanded smooth with very little chipout. I'm also somewhat wet behind the ears and found this blade improved my results a ton.

rstermer


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

ditto to rstermer's post. If your saw is at all underpowered, get their 3/32 thick blade with stabilizers instead of a 1/8" blade. Compared to a 1/8" blade, you'll feel like you got a new motor!


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