# Threading ski rods without a lathe or machine vise



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Many members have been put-off making router skis or have resorted to the inferia allthread because they dont have access to a metal lathe. Well guys, here is a simple way to produce a pair of SMOOTH ski rods with a thread at each end. I'll add a pdf of the project.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

What type of rod are you using Harry?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Such a simple solution, I am ashamed I did not think of that......VBG.

Back to McJings for a new tap/die set....

Thanks harry.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> What type of rod are you using Harry?


My router on skis is a Makita 3600BR which has 12mm holes. The ends of the rods are turned down to 3/8" to leave a shoulder for the fender washer. With this "new" method of threading without a lathe, it would be necessary to run a 12mm die along the ends. Some routers have 1/2" holes so of course a 1/2" die would be needed. The material is bright mild steel, readily available.
The small skis have 8mm rods and as you can see were made in the lathe but could now be made the "new" way


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> Such a simple solution, I am ashamed I did not think of that......VBG.
> 
> Back to McJings for a new tap/die set....
> 
> Thanks harry.


Make sure that any dies you buy James are like the split one on the left. I doubt that McJing has them, I'm sure all his stock is from China.


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

The split dies can also be found pretty cheap on Ebay.


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## Jaccok (Nov 14, 2011)

Great pictures, great info on pictures, great jig. Please keep the jigs & pictures & info coming.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

harrysin said:


> Make sure that any dies you buy James are like the split one on the left. I doubt that McJing has them, I'm sure all his stock is from China.


Harry.

The button dies on their web site do not show the split.

What are the pros and cons either way?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Harry, I have seen a few mention that they used drill rod for their support rods. I have used my lathe to turn a 1/2" drill bit shank down to 3/8" so I could chuck it in a 3/8 drill but I haven't tried threading one with a die. Have you?

James,
A split die is theoretically adjustable. There is a recessed hole at 90 deg to the split so that if you tighten down the grub screw that keeps the die from turning in the holder you would also reduce the % of threadform. A common bolt has a threadform of about 70-75%. At least that's the way that I understand it. Maybe Harry could verify that. I'm sure he has more experience on the subject than I do.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Harry, I have seen a few mention that they used drill rod for their support rods. I have used my lathe to turn a 1/2" drill bit shank down to 3/8" so I could chuck it in a 3/8 drill but I haven't tried threading one with a die. Have you?
> 
> James,
> A split die is theoretically adjustable. There is a recessed hole at 90 deg to the split so that if you tighten down the grub screw that keeps the die from turning in the holder you would also reduce the % of threadform. A common bolt has a threadform of about 70-75%. At least that's the way that I understand it. Maybe Harry could verify that. I'm sure he has more experience on the subject than I do.


 James, a button die can be very difficult to start without a long taper on the rod but a split die in a suitable wrench, that is one which has a pointed screw which when tightened increases the diameter slightly making for an easy start. If after completing the thread it is too tight to go into it's nut, simply slacken the pointed screw which will reduce the diameter and make a second run down the thread which will remove a small amount of metal after which the nut will move easily along the rod.
Charles, shot #3 at the start to this thread a shows a 3/8" thread being made with a die but using a sliding holder made for lathe use but there is no problem using the die in a normal wrench, in which case using a tailstock chuck, I adjust the jaws to fit the die and apply tailstock pressure until the thread gets started. This way the die is at right angles to the rod and the pressure helps to get started.
The last shot shows the die holder after I was shamed into renovating it by non other than retired toolmaker Dr. Dave Zook.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Harry I wish I had those tips last year, especially tapering the ends and block for rod not turning. I eventually figured it out. Note that the vise grips did mar the rod but nothing a little sanding did not fix and to save your hands and speed things up a bit, take a 10 to 16 inch peice of wood and drill a hole in one end for the handle of the die to fit in. The extra leverage really helps when you have four ends to thread. It was not an easy or quick task but the answer if you do not have a lathe.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Considering how long I have been threading ski rods in the lathe and the number of forum members who have complained about not having access to a lathe, I'm surprised that I didn't think of this method sooner. How about a photo of your finished results Jim.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

harrysin said:


> Considering how long I have been threading ski rods in the lathe and the number of forum members who have complained about not having access to a lathe, I'm surprised that I didn't think of this method sooner. How about a photo of your finished results Jim.



Pic 1 is the finished ski's. I had to hack down the middle of the cheeks so the handles of the Craftsman router would fit.

Pic 2 is the side of the skis with the front washer and wing nut off

an Pic 3 is the wall where the 2x2 stands that I drilled a hole in the end for the handle of the die in. Thst way I could get some leverage and save the hands while turning the threads, It now serves as a tape holder. Also the other end of the MDF is hanging where I had cut out the cheeks from your Pics and instruction. Cutting a taller set of cheeks is somewhere on the to do list.

Thanks for all of your tips Harry


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Looks like you are about ready for action Jim. :yes4:


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Mike, the skis some action last year. I believe I used them to plane down some 5/4 rough red oak. Other than that I haven't used them much.

I do plan on getting some carbon paper and using them for some raised lettering and such.


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## MaxK (Oct 1, 2012)

Ha, lovely. I found this forum looking for a way to make a sled to plane some wood flat, and found Harry's how to thread. Then I set about looking for any word of reason not to thread rods by hand like this, and look who's posted a thread. You've addressed the only thing i could think of (not having a flat end for the washer) with the added nut. 

I'll set about doing this as soon as some supplies arrive. My only question left at the moment is regarding the weight of my router, and sag. My router is (compared to routers I've seen at least) rather hefty at almost exactly 4 Kg, and has holes for 9mm rod. Is that rod too thin? I need at least half a meter of cutting space, and my router from handle to handle is 28cm. Most rods here come in 3 foot lengths, which is just about perfect for this, but I'm concerned that 9mm rod wont be free from sag at such lengths. Would i be better off removing the baseplate and drilling it to a larger diameter?


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

Hi Max, are you using drill rod? It's already annealed, but you can harden it if you prefer.


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## MaxK (Oct 1, 2012)

Yep. If 9mm is sufficient I'll merrily go ahead with that. Just thought I'd ask before I went about either A) spending ~30 dollars on rod too thin, or B) spending more than I need to and doing unneeded work just to beef up something perfectly sufficient.

edit: It seems I cant post a link to it yet, but the rod is on amazon, you can search its UPC. 049659682342.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Acme threaded rod works well it's almost the same as rod with out threads,it's almost flat unlike normal threaded rod,it's 4101 steel B7 and you can't bend it,I have been using it for 5 years and it still straight ..and NO sag at all and the rods are 28" long.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

bob, isn't that acme rod expensive though? you know me ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The plywood H frames will not sag; a less expensive alternative. They are not quite as easy to adjust.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Mike, what length did you use for the hanger bolts? The longest I can find locally are 2 1/2" with the threaded side being 1". That doesn't leave enough thread for my knob, unless I don't insert the other side fully into the wood.

I suppose I cold use barrel nuts, but I'd rather use hanger bolts I think.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marco said:


> Pic 1 is the finished ski's. I had to hack down the middle of the cheeks so the handles of the Craftsman router would fit.
> 
> Pic 2 is the side of the skis with the front washer and wing nut off
> 
> ...


Well done Jim, I really am proud of you and pleased that I was of some help to you.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

MaxK said:


> Ha, lovely. I found this forum looking for a way to make a sled to plane some wood flat, and found Harry's how to thread. Then I set about looking for any word of reason not to thread rods by hand like this, and look who's posted a thread. You've addressed the only thing i could think of (not having a flat end for the washer) with the added nut.
> 
> I'll set about doing this as soon as some supplies arrive. My only question left at the moment is regarding the weight of my router, and sag. My router is (compared to routers I've seen at least) rather hefty at almost exactly 4 Kg, and has holes for 9mm rod. Is that rod too thin? I need at least half a meter of cutting space, and my router from handle to handle is 28cm. Most rods here come in 3 foot lengths, which is just about perfect for this, but I'm concerned that 9mm rod wont be free from sag at such lengths. Would i be better off removing the baseplate and drilling it to a larger diameter?


Max, all routers that I've used were capable of sending a larger drill through the holes in the router without compromising the integrity of the base. Even opening up to 10mm will be an improvement but 12mm would be PERFECT!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

Not to bad about 17.oo per 3ft.but it makes the job so easy and you only need to make one setup only,,,,, one size will work for all jobs the norm.....

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr

==



Chris Curl said:


> bob, isn't that acme rod expensive though? you know me ...


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## MaxK (Oct 1, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Max, all routers that I've used were capable of sending a larger drill through the holes in the router without compromising the integrity of the base. Even opening up to 10mm will be an improvement but 12mm would be PERFECT!


I'll go ahead and do it the right way and take it up to 12mm then. Thanks!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Chris, 1/4" x 2" were used on the small ski jig; 5/16" x 2-1/2" on the large jig with Rockler knobs.


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## MaxK (Oct 1, 2012)

Hrm, having inspected the router a bit after getting home, I dont know that I'll be able to enlarge the holes. Theyre located right against an edge, and while there is plenty of material there, getting the drill bit straight in may be tricky. The alternative would be to enlarge the hole off center, but thats never fun either. I may need to build a sled out of mdf.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

"drill it out to 1/2" " ,,The only router that I know of is the Big tank Porter Cable routers and it's tricky at best...I have done it..

===


MaxK said:


> Hrm, having inspected the router a bit after getting home, I dont know that I'll be able to enlarge the holes. Theyre located right against an edge, and while there is plenty of material there, getting the drill bit straight in may be tricky. The alternative would be to enlarge the hole off center, but thats never fun either. I may need to build a sled out of mdf.


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## MaxK (Oct 1, 2012)

Hey bob. That router definitely has more room than mine. Ill post a picture when im able. The bottom edge of the holes in mine are butted right up to the base plate, so I'd have to keep the drill straight while either enlarging off center, are drilling the edge through a flat part. Neither really seems viable. I'm going to see how it handles with the 9mm rods but I'm starting to resign qmyself to a plywood sled. Not that there's anything wrong with that. The skis just seem a bit nicer, and better suited to my needs long term. On the other hand this may prove the perfect excuse to add a second router...


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## chengiz (Oct 30, 2010)

A question for Harry: I managed to get hold of a couple of stainless steel rods of the required width for my DeWalt 625 router. Somehow could not find any mild steel roads as you had recommended. Now I need to get a die to cut the threads on the end. Before I go searching for one, could you tell me if a HSS die will cut stainless steel? Thanks


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Stainless steel can be easy to work with PROVIDING the cutting tools are SHARP. I've never used a die on SS but providing you use a QUALITY die and grind a reasonably long taper on the rods, using a cutting compound it should work OK.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"On the other hand this may prove the perfect excuse to add a second router"

Now you are thinking clearly Max. Having only one router in insufficient for any serious present or future routologist. I know that friend Bj has more than most retailers but that isn't what I'm suggesting. I have six plus one for parts, the purpose being, one for most freehand use, one small 1/4" one for occasional small jobs, a trim router, one on skis, one under the main table, one under the table top table when doing large projects to save bit changing in the main table then there is the second Makita with most parts interchangable for the 3600 and 3612C. Two routers will make a good start Max.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

You are in for a real wok out most stainless steel is of the 304 type or to say 18.8 type ( 18% moly.and 8% chrom.) that is harder than most hand dies,if you are using the split die you can open it up a little bit and make a pass or two to make it easy-er on thread job.

Good Luck

==



chengiz said:


> A question for Harry: I managed to get hold of a couple of stainless steel rods of the required width for my DeWalt 625 router. Somehow could not find any mild steel roads as you had recommended. Now I need to get a die to cut the threads on the end. Before I go searching for one, could you tell me if a HSS die will cut stainless steel? Thanks


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## chengiz (Oct 30, 2010)

Thanks Harry and Bobj3. I've got a split die and hope it works. Will let you know how it goes.


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## Neil Tsubota (Mar 20, 2010)

Hello Harry,
I am going to "try" this with 3/8" brass rod 24" long.

Now I need to find the thread cutting nut.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

neil, i'm not sure brass is stiff enough ... isn't that a fairly soft metal?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

neiltsubota said:


> Hello Harry,
> I am going to "try" this with 3/8" brass rod 24" long.
> 
> Now I need to find the thread cutting nut.


Hold it Neil, Brass is definately not suitable for ski rods, as I stated in my thread, Brass was the only material that I had in 3/8" for the demonstration.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> You are in for a real wok out most stainless steel is of the 304 type or to say 18.8 type ( 18% moly.and 8% chrom.) that is harder than most hand dies,if you are using the split die you can open it up a little bit and make a pass or two to make it easy-er on thread job.
> 
> ...


Bob, I'm sure that you have more experience than me using stainless steel. For many years people had told me that SS was only for professionals to use, however, a few years ago, a fellow forum member and retired tool make dared me to make a SS pen after I posted a Brass one and an Aluminium one. I emailed some likely friends seeking a gift of some SS rod and low and behold within a few days I had a couple of SS rods in my hands. The first thing that I did was grind a high speed steel cutting tool and aquire a few Cobalt twist drills then I was ready to proceed and I found it almost as easy as mild steel.
The second time that I used SS was flat bar that I bought cheaply to make my router lift, and again people that I spoke to warned me against attempting to stick weld it. Well my friend, the joints as you can see were the most perfect that I have EVER produced! I think that the moral of this story is "don't believe anything is impossible until you have actually tried it "


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## chengiz (Oct 30, 2010)

harrysin said:


> I think that the moral of this story is "don't believe anything is impossible until you have actually tried it "


That is indeed a heartening thought - and half the fun is in the trying, I guess. Now to go on an expedition to find a SS die.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

harry, i'm sure you have a thread about your router lift ... can you point me to it? thanks


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Harry,

As with timber, there are different grades of stainless steel.

My nephew ordered some SS from a Sydney supplier and they sent the wrong grade (much too hard). ( from a well know Swedish supplier).

He could not work it and they had to replace it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

James, when I'm GIVEN FREE material it doesn't usually come with a pedigree! I wouldn't know how to start to find out what type it is other than sending a sample to a lab. for a spectrometer test.


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## Neil Tsubota (Mar 20, 2010)

What is the diameter of your steel rod ?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Harry

Stainless Steel Grades and Mechanical Properties

Test for difference between type 316 and 304 stainless steel

I know of a way to tell the difference tween 304 and 316. this method has been used in recycling for years. It's called "spark test". With an angle grinder, grind 304 and look at sparks; they will fork out at the end of their flight. 316 will spark but each spark will stay intact till the end of its flight. try it out its cheap and better for the environment.

==



harrysin said:


> James, when I'm GIVEN FREE material it doesn't usually come with a pedigree! I wouldn't know how to start to find out what type it is other than sending a sample to a lab. for a spectrometer test.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

PS: I might add that my nephew ordered the correct grade SS for his job (grape bins), but the supplier sent the wrong grade. 

Free is very good, Harry.....LOL


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Stainless steel also comes in 400 series with a much higher chrome content. The 400's can be identified easily with a magnet. If it sticks the material in in the 400's range.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

neiltsubota said:


> What is the diameter of your steel rod ?


Neil, my makita 3600BR and 3612C take 12mm rods which are 27.5" long and my Bosch POF52 takes 8mm x 12" rods as does the Makita trim router.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Harry
> 
> Stainless Steel Grades and Mechanical Properties
> 
> ...


I'll try to find time tomorrow to try your spark test Bob, stay tuned!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Chris Curl said:


> harry, i'm sure you have a thread about your router lift ... can you point me to it? thanks


Sorry for forgetting to answer you last evening Chris. I too had difficulty finding the original thread so here are all the shots invloved.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

harrysin said:


> I'll try to find time tomorrow to try your spark test Bob, stay tuned!


Well Bob, I just tried the spark test on four samples of SS but I must admit that I couldn't see any difference between them. This I suppose shouldn't really surprise me because I'm one of those guys who can't tell Margerine from butter! All samples were totally non-magnetic.
In the shot, the second from left is an off-cut from the bar that I welded and the one on it's right is from the pen, the two outer ones I haven't had a use for.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

> I'm one of those guys who can't tell Margarine from butter


That's OK, Harry. You're not supposed to be able to tell the difference.VBG


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

VBG
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