# feeding between fence and bit



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Is it ever recommended to feed wood between the fence and the bit ?
I did it a few times once when I quickly mounted my router up side down through my workbench, but it ended badly due to me feeding in the wrong direction and my hand ( I know) being quickly pulled toward the bit.
So I learnt that I should feed in the other direction if I was ever going to do that again.
Should I be doing that at all ? When it worked, it worked well at making a smooth straight edge.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Gavin, feeding between the fence and the bit is never a safe, recommended practice. You NEVER want the wood to be trapped between the bit and fence. On the router table, feeding from right to left is always the correct, safe direction. Some may say that back routing (left to right on a table) is ok on some occasions, but I don't recommend it. Ever!


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## steelbreeze (Oct 31, 2009)

Please do Not feed any wood between the router bit and the fence. Most router fences have a gap where the bit should be and it's to easy for the wood to get trapped in the gap. Let the forum know what kind of cut your trying to make. I'm sure someone here can show you a better and safer way of making the cut without placing the wood between the fence and bit.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Under NO circumstance should your workpiece be between the bit and the fence. There has been way too many incidents this entire yr, (and the yr ain't over yet). 

Back routing or climb cuts are sometimes necessary but, even these aren't recommended without taking certain precautions.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Gav, what you describe is known is a climb cut. My first router, that I abandoned because it ceased to hold router bits (two were launched into what I presume is low earth orbit) came with a manual that extolled the virtues of climb cutting. The cut edge may be smoother and have a distinct finish. What the manual failed to mention was the danger associated with climb cutting. My second router, the Makita 3612C, came with a manual that warned against climb cutting. Part of the terminal segment of my left forefinger was turned into some resembling unprocessed hamburger in far, far less time than it took to type even one word when in one unthinking moment I did a climb cut. The workpiece shot away and my finger made contact with the spinning router bit. I am very fortunate that there was no damage to the joint or tendons, but weeks of rinsing with hydrogen peroxide and bandaging in such a way as to eliminate joint flexibility have left me now, weeks past two years, with a forefinger with limited flexibility. Based on what I have seen in the shop safety forum, I consider myself very fortunate. Thus please for you own safety, and the safety of anyone or anything that might be in line of fire of the workpiece, please heed the words of curiousgeorge, steelbreeze, and Hamlin. There is also an extensive discussion in the thread Direction of Feed. Far too many injuries far worse than mine have been described, sometimes with graphic photos, are described in Shop Safety, and few of these are attributable to climb cuts. Bottom line: climb cuts are very dangerous without proper precautions including deliberate planning and very tightly holding down the workpiece and using push blocks or push pads that keep fingers and all other body parts far, far away from the spinning router bit.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

+1 on Tom's post.. remember:

"Just because you've done it for years without injury doesn't protect you the next time you do it!"

Please be safe...


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, I haven't done it again since mildly injuring my finger the first time ( I got of easy). At the time is was my only choice for trying to put a nice straight clean edge on a piece of wood as I didn't have a router table and was simply using a straight edge clamped to my work bench with the router mounted underneath.
I only ask now because there is a video on youtube called 'Mr.jeffreys 3rd world machine shop' This guy looks to be running a great program to help people in Africa(forgot which country exactly) avoid having there bodies worn out by the age of 10 through traditional workworking practice.
You need to watch the video to see what he's up to. One thing I noticed is that he's got them running wood between the bit and the fence going against the rotation of the bit. Presumably using the set up as a jointer.


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## the_nite_owl (Oct 19, 2009)

Guys, does this include using the router table to dado a groove in a piece where part of the piece is behind the bit against the fence and part in front of the bit?

I had created a dado in a piece and made the mistake of doing a cleanup pass on the side closest to the fence and had it throw my piece of MDF and dent the drywall.
It just had not occurred to me that I would only be catching material on the back side of the bit and it would yank away from me.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

gav said:


> Well, I haven't done it again since mildly injuring my finger the first time ( I got of easy). At the time is was my only choice for trying to put a nice straight clean edge on a piece of wood as I didn't have a router table and was simply using a straight edge clamped to my work bench with the router mounted underneath.
> I only ask now because there is a video on youtube called 'Mr.jeffreys 3rd world machine shop' This guy looks to be running a great program to help people in Africa(forgot which country exactly) avoid having there bodies worn out by the age of 10 through traditional workworking practice.
> You need to watch the video to see what he's up to. One thing I noticed is that he's got them running wood between the bit and the fence going against the rotation of the bit. Presumably using the set up as a jointer.


OK, I think I'm beginning to understand. He is running it between the bit and the fence and running it left to right. The way I see it is that is only marginally, if at all, better than going the other way. One tough spot, knot, hiccup, whatever will shoot that board right back at the operator. Board is goin someplace and it only has one direction available doing it that way. 
My table introduced me to kickback awhile ago. I plowed a 1/4" slot in some 5.2 mm plywood about 8" long and 3" wide. Decided I really wanted a 5/16" so instead of moving the fence a bit, I just put a 5/16" bit in. This was a stopped slot so I was plunging it. Soon as that ply hit the bit the router shot it against a wall and bounced it off so far took 20 min to find it.  How's that go? "We all just one decision away from stupid". About the only reason I didn't get personally involved with the bit is I have developed a work habit over the years that I seldom have a very tight grip on a workpiece when feeding it. :wacko:
Sounds like Mr Jeffries is replacing worn out bodies with mangled onesh34r:


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## cbsjoez1935 (Mar 14, 2007)

Gav,
I have seen the video where Bob Rosendahl does feed the stock between the fence and the bit. It was to cut a dado and his reasoning was that the spriral bit he was using was cutting on both sides of the bit. Of course he was feeding it from right to left. He is the pro and I guess he knows how to do it. I personally would only do a climb cut using the router hand held with the work piece securely fastened to the bench.
Joe Z.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

You can put a smooth, straight edge on wood with the table router. (jointing)
You have to bring the outfeed fence out with a thin spacer. Align the bit to that fence with a straight edge.
Run the stock through right-to-left, keeping it pressed against the outfeed fence. It works just like a regular jointer.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

the_nite_owl said:


> Guys, does this include using the router table to dado a groove in a piece where part of the piece is behind the bit against the fence and part in front of the bit?


It applies to making a dado wider but not the initial cut with the bit cutting on both sides.



> I had created a dado in a piece and made the mistake of doing a cleanup pass on the side closest to the fence and had it throw my piece of MDF and dent the drywall.
> It just had not occurred to me that I would only be catching material on the back side of the bit and it would yank away from me.


That gets exciting.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Dado's are a completely different subject altogether.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I have to admit I have thought about going between the bit and the fence before. 
To face/joint an edge and taking off very minute amounts per pass.

Probably a very very bad idea LOL !


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Duane,

Think about the amount of energy stored in a router spinning at 20,000 rpms. Not just the bit but also the windings. Its about half the weight of the router. Think about all the electrical power working to keep it up at that speed to boot.

Then think about suddenly imparting a large amount of that energy into moving your board. What you have is a "pitching machine" except for boards instead of baseballs.. You're standing right by the machine, you don't have a bat or a glove.. and most importantly, you're not wearing a cup!

A weak attempt at humor but it's a great way to damage walls, equipment and yourself. Please be safe.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Duane867 said:


> I have to admit I have thought about going between the bit and the fence before.
> To face/joint an edge and taking off very minute amounts per pass.
> 
> Probably a very very bad idea LOL !


hi Duane,

if you think its a bad idea, it most likely is. no need for me to ramble, enough said.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

CanuckGal said:


> I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?



Now you know why us men never read manuals :sarcastic:


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

CanuckGal said:


> I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?




hi Deb,

that would make me think twice about believing what incra said.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?


+1 on Levon's post.

There are those who advocate using a TS without a blade guard because "it provides better visability". Doesn't make it right!! Still, that surprises me.. Time to dig out my book! <g>


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

It struck me as very odd considering it was in the "safety" section of the book.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

CanuckGal said:


> I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?


They even show the bit turning in the wrong direction.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

The part where it says "now pull the stock backward through the cut."
Are they implying reach your hand between the bit and fence and grab the stock or reach over the bit and stock and grab the end of the stock and pull it through?
Does this not seem COMPLETELY wrong? Or really bad wording. I know either way I'm not trying it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just my 2 cents 

It's just not smart to cap-sure the stock between the bit and the fence.

It's not the right way of doing, I don't care what they say or what they print it out..

The rule I always use if I can't pull the stock sideways from the bit it's not safe, when routing the edges ,they put the fence on the router table for more than one thing..the one that takes 1st. place ,is that it hides the part of the router bit that's not being used in the pass...the rabbit is a very safe job on the router table if it's done right..

If your not 100% sure use the hand router..to do the job..with or without the fence on the router,in that way you can't trap the stock..
============


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## jbert1949 (Jan 15, 2014)

4 year old post or not, I just did this and was so lucky. I thought the wood had a problem so I pushed down on it. When the bit grabbed and projectiled the wood, my middle finger caught the top of the Dado bit. 10 stitches, but had I hit the side of the bit I know my finger would have been taken. I had just done this the other night, but my feed was left to right and no problems. Gonna throw out back routing and just use the normal in front of the bit. WHAT? Oh yeah, it did hurt and with me on blood thinners, took 2 hours to stop the bledding.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Hi Jim. Welcome to our little corner of the 'net. 
Thanks for dropping in... head over to the intro section and introduce yourself.

Glad to hear your lesson was not more painful than it was. I think we've all had those brief moments that you think about afterwards and say "WT heck was I thinking??!!" Fortunately I've never came as close as you did... atho there were times I should have. In any event, lots of information here about the right, and the wrong way, to do a particular job or procedure. Ask away, someone will have the answer.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Jim.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Did you, by chance, have to have the directions translated from Chinese?

Actually, those sound like directions from some group holding competition for launching projectiles using common woodworking equipment.




CanuckGal said:


> I was going through the Incra Projects and techniques book and right at the beginning it has this part about feeding the stock from left to right between the bit and the fence! They advocate this method???? WTH?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's good to hear that it wasn't more serious Jim.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

Resurrecting this thread. Been playing with the new table and setup; cut some 1/8" hardboard, mostly freehand, also using the Incra mitre gage with part of the Woodpecker fence attached as a squaring jig.

Trying to understand what the difference is between running a workpiece on the table saw between the fence and blade (one of the standard actions) and running a workpiece thru the router from left to right between the fence and the router bit, so the cutting direction is correct and you're not climb cutting.

Please note; only talking about light cutting to square and true up thin workpiece edges, not running a 3" rabbet bit into 3" thick material, lol.

The Incra instructions regarding expanding a dado suggest 1/16" material removal per pass, so this seems to follow my logic.

Thoughts please gentlemen, and ladies......... thank you in advance.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Paul; first thing that comes to mind is that the saw blade is running in a vertical plane, relative to the material going past it. The router bit is in the _same_ plane as the material. The bit is digging into the worked face acting like a catapult.
Re the _saw blade_; nobody is suggesting that it's a foolproof and totally safe operation. Saw kickback is nasty. It happens. If the saw fence is closer to the saw blade at the outfeed side than the infeed side, kickback from the material binding is a very real probability. Personally I try to use the blade guard/anti-kickback pawls when ever possible.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of the issues is that with the proper feed direction and the bit partially behind the fence the fence controls the possible depth of cut. With the bit out in the open there isn't anything controlling the depth of cut. If your piece starts to wander away from the fence the bit will keep digging in. If you intend to try doing that then use 2 fences, one on either side and that will prevent. Two feather boards would also probably be enough, one on either side of the bit. There are a number of operations that can be done as long as you can maintain control of the piece but if you lose control things go sideways so fast that you won't have time to react. So it's best to just not try those operations. Always play it safe and do things the right way and you'll still have all 10 fingers when you finally give this hobby up.


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

What we are describing is basically how a thicknesser works, but in the case of the thicknesser there are rollers that not only feed the material through the thicknesser but also keep the material from being pulled up into the cutters.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Excellent point, Phillip.
Exemplifies what Charles was describing re preventing the material from being pulled into the bit.
Another deadly tool, if not used with care and caution, is the Radial Arm saw, when used for ripping.
VoE.


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> Excellent point, Phillip.
> Exemplifies what Charles was describing re preventing the material from being pulled into the bit.
> Another deadly tool, if not used with care and caution, is the Radial Arm saw, when used for ripping.
> VoE.


Tell me about it in my younger and sillier days I tried to rip a piece of thin plywood with a RAS, luckily the kickback fingers worked, it grabbed the piece and spun it around. Never tried that again.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mine didn't; several stitches.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

I ran several very light passes and squared up a small piece (9x5). I appreciate the comment about the work piece having to stay against the fence. Also cut some internal rectangular holes for the controls to sit flush in. Ended up running the piece against the locked in mitre fence, this squares up the cuts nicely with the outer edges. Basically just playing around - going to make a serious template with 4 mounting holes and 3 equipment cutouts; then will use that as a guide and use a flush trim bit free hand on the table. Will likely build a top plate plexiglass safety cover or at least use the locking exterior handle for small parts I have.

Take a look at some of these videos and tools - the car stereo world has something to contribute to using a router table. Not quite the precision of cabinet/furniture making, but nonetheless some very cool things.

Car Audio Fabrication - Custom Techniques , Video Tutorials Car Audio


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I think a big part of the problem with radial arm saws was the blades we were using. I'm sure what I used had a pretty good positive hook on it and they should have been negative hook.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

In my case it was one of those accursed wobble dado blades; the end result was likely exactly what you described, Charles.


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