# Table Saw Dust Collection



## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

I recently bought a Bosch 4100 TS. It is a terrific saw and I have absolutely no complaints with the saw except on dust collection. Saw dust is everywhere but especially underneath the saw since it is completely open on the bottom side. I bought the collection bag which attaches to the port on the back side but it is practically worthless. I am looking for some ideas on how others have dealt with this problem on their saws. I appreciate any and all suggestions as long as you don't tell me to buy a new saw...lol.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

billyjim said:


> I recently bought a Bosch 4100 TS. It is a terrific saw and I have absolutely no complaints with the saw except on dust collection. Saw dust is everywhere but especially underneath the saw since it is completely open on the bottom side. I bought the collection bag which attaches to the port on the back side but it is practically worthless. I am looking for some ideas on how others have dealt with this problem on their saws. I appreciate any and all suggestions as long as you don't tell me to buy a new saw...lol.


use a real DC and not a shop vac...
leave the slots open that are in the base open...
the pictures should explain it all...
the 2.5" line pictured would have been a 4" reduced at the dust outlet if I had a 4" Wye...
all that saw dust on the floor is from the 2 neighborhood kids using the shop for the last several weeks...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

If I had had the material on hand I would have done the bottom collector in 6" and the dust port in 4"...
as is, it works reasonably well...


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

Have you read any threads on dust collection?


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

fire65 said:


> Have you read any threads on dust collection?


I have read quite a few but I was looking for solutions that are specific to the Bosch TS. My circumstances preclude me from using a traditional dust collection system so I am casting about looking for other options.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

billyjim said:


> I have read quite a few but I was looking for solutions that are specific to the Bosch TS. My circumstances preclude me from using a traditional dust collection system so I am casting about looking for other options.


is that what you were looking for????


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I fixed my problem 80% , I bought a cabinet saw and a dust collector . Still get dust off the blade on top though 
I've raised the blade higher than necessary to get the dust to fire downward instead of at me . Not liking the options for above tablesaw dust collection all that much .
If I kept my delta contractors saw I would have boxed the surrounding area in so I could put a 4" dust port on it . I'm not big on shop vacs as they just don't have the volume of air IMO to evacuate dust enough , but some people claim they've had fairly good success

So what I'm saying is I'd do the best you can to enclose the sides and bottom of your saw and install a 4" port


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Still get dust off the blade on top though
> 
> So what I'm saying is I'd do the best you can to enclose the sides and bottom of your saw and install a 4" port


the back side of the blade is cutting material...

it's a job site saw and suppose to be portable...
the way the bottom of the saw is done, the saw is boxed...
increasing CFM is the real fix but the way it's done it get at least 90% plus...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

A friend with that saw built a table for it with a table top that is exactly the height of the saw's table, shimming the saw slightly to make it exactly even. The open bottom spills into a box with a slightly slanted bottom and a 4 inch dust port on the back hooked to a 2 stage dust collection system (separator bin, blower, final filter), This stand is set up in a semi permanent spot, which allowed him to fix a 2x4 to the ceiling that drops down a foot or so behind the blade. He used 4 strips of aluminum to move a dust collection hood up and down over the blade. The dust collection hood could be commercially made, but he made his with a wood top and plexiglass sides, curved in the front to pass over the wood being cut. The dust collection 2.5 inch hose runs from the back top of the hood, up the 2x4 then off to the side to connect with a Y connector that joins the hose from the 4 inch port below. The parallel aluminum arms have a counterweight behind the 2x4 and a screen door spring pulling down lightly that lets the hood ride lightly on the stock being cut. This rig is really simple but depends on the saw being set up pretty much permanently in one spot. If you want to keep the saw on the portable rig, you'd have to find a way to reset it in exactly the same spot every time you use it in the shop, and put a bottom plate with dust port on it. I have a reduction hose that ends with a 1 inch PVC pipe for reaching into and cleaning out the sawdust that gets stuck in them mechanism. 

I agree that this kind of setup is all about air flow, not necessarily vacuum pressure. Saw a very interesting home built dust collection system recently; instead of using a standard blower (Harbor freight, Rockler for example), the guy put a squirrel cage blower at the top of a large box. The intake is in the middle on one side into about a 6 inch chamber with a divider in it to deflect the air flow and debris down. Below that chamber is a well sealed, pull-out drawer that heavier debris falls into. An opening on the other end of the chamber above the debris drawer, pulls air up then across and through a couple of replaceable or washable filters, each mounted between chambers with room on the bottom of each filter chamber for dust to settle. Doors on this section allow for filter cleaning or replacement, and acces to cleanout any settled dust. 

By the time the air reaches the big, commercial blower, its pretty clean and it is ported outside. There are doors for the middle section where the filters are so he can clean them out with a shop vac. This thing was maybe 3 feet wide and 6 feet tall but only about 16 inches thick, so you could mount it on a wall and port the blower output through the wall to the outside. If it was still spitting sawdust, you could add more or finer filters inside or outside to catch it. As I recall, the guy who made it actually ports the air back into the shop, which would be OK only if you have filtered out ALL of the finest dust or are a zealot about wearing a respirator at all times in the shop. 

I have an oversized evaporative cooler that cools our 1800 sqft house and replaces the air in the house completely every couple of minutes. That would be overkill for a dust collection system, but there are some smaller but heavy duty blowers on Amazon that have incredible airflow specs that would fill the bill. I bet it would only take a day or two to build something like this with a couple of sheets of 18mm ply. The blowers were about $200 bucks for a high volume model. Without a lot of airflow there is no way you can keep the dust down with a portable or open bottom table saw. 

Hope these possible solutions are helpful. I'm a throat cancer survivor and the warnings about sawdust as carcinogens and the ultra fine and invisible dust's causing serious and permanent lung damage made me very careful about dust collection. 

One other thing I'm doing is adding a second, dust free finishing and storage shed so I can clear out the bottom 16 inches of floor all around the main shop. That will make it easier to clean up the dust that seems to drift into and permeate every nook and cranny. Dust collection is serious business and ignoring it will only lead to very bad health issues over the years. A ventilated mask is now standard for me, as well as an overhead filtering system to continuously remove that awful, nearly invisible airborne dust that is most damaging. Much as I'd love to just hang out with my tools, I'm only going in to work on projects these days. The new shed will become my get away cave, so I'm setting up power, insulation, finished walls, lights and extra double pane windows for my comfort. Even plan to paint the joint some cheerful yellow. I write a lot in my work, so there will be a small workstation there as well since it is in range of my wifi. 

Thanks for putting up with the rant, I'm pretty fired up about this wood dust health issue.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> is that what you were looking for????


Yes, Thank You Stick. That is exactly what I was looking for.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> A friend with that saw built a table for it with a table top that is exactly the height of the saw's table, shimming the saw slightly to make it exactly even. The open bottom spills into a box with a slightly slanted bottom and a 4 inch dust port on the back hooked to a 2 stage dust collection system (separator bin, blower, final filter), This stand is set up in a semi permanent spot, which allowed him to fix a 2x4 to the ceiling that drops down a foot or so behind the blade. He used 4 strips of aluminum to move a dust collection hood up and down over the blade. The dust collection hood could be commercially made, but he made his with a wood top and plexiglass sides, curved in the front to pass over the wood being cut. The dust collection 2.5 inch hose runs from the back top of the hood, up the 2x4 then off to the side to connect with a Y connector that joins the hose from the 4 inch port below. The parallel aluminum arms have a counterweight behind the 2x4 and a screen door spring pulling down lightly that lets the hood ride lightly on the stock being cut. This rig is really simple but depends on the saw being set up pretty much permanently in one spot. If you want to keep the saw on the portable rig, you'd have to find a way to reset it in exactly the same spot every time you use it in the shop, and put a bottom plate with dust port on it. I have a reduction hose that ends with a 1 inch PVC pipe for reaching into and cleaning out the sawdust that gets stuck in them mechanism.
> 
> I agree that this kind of setup is all about air flow, not necessarily vacuum pressure. Saw a very interesting home built dust collection system recently; instead of using a standard blower (Harbor freight, Rockler for example), the guy put a squirrel cage blower at the top of a large box. The intake is in the middle on one side into about a 6 inch chamber with a divider in it to deflect the air flow and debris down. Below that chamber is a well sealed, pull-out drawer that heavier debris falls into. An opening on the other end of the chamber above the debris drawer, pulls air up then across and through a couple of replaceable or washable filters, each mounted between chambers with room on the bottom of each filter chamber for dust to settle. Doors on this section allow for filter cleaning or replacement, and acces to cleanout any settled dust.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom. I don't consider your response a rant. It was precisely the kind of input I am seeking.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

You guys are making me more paranoid . I may have to buy one of those ceiling mount dust collectors to :fie:
And maybe build a collection box behind my miter saw as it seems to be the worse culprit 



Stick I googled that TS and seen it looked enclosed of the sides . It should make it easy to close up completely shouldn't it , as you just have to cover the bottom?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick; your neighbourhood kids...I'm guessing that means they're a tich under 65?...need to be leaving your shop **** and span when they walk out. Kids today, eh?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> *You guys are making me more paranoid *. I may have to buy one of those ceiling mount dust collectors to :fie:
> And maybe build a *collection box behind my miter saw* as it seems to be the worse culprit
> 
> Stick I googled that TS and seen it looked enclosed of the sides .* It should make it easy to close up completely shouldn't it *, as you just have to cover the bottom?


More???
good luck w/ that...
what for??? why build "stuff" when you don't have to???
that piece of tin I used to enclose the bottom of the already there base works fine and the saw's portability isn't hindered...
upping the CFM (larger tube/pipe/hose) would be a major plus...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Stick; your neighbourhood kids...I'm guessing that means they're a tich under 65?...need to be leaving your shop **** and span when they walk out. Kids today, eh?


they're teenagers making xmas presents...
one is addicted to the lathe and scroll saw...
the other, hand tools all the way... has the mind set of "we don't need no stinkin' power tools"...
hand cut a lock miter sometime and let me know how ya did... or a relief carving...
they work till mom or dad shows up to get them...
as far as the mess goes, when they finish the shop will be spotless...
the tools cleaned and put up...
any sharpening needed will be done...


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

RainMan1 said:


> You guys are making me more paranoid . I may have to buy one of those ceiling mount dust collectors to :fie:
> And maybe build a collection box behind my miter saw as it seems to be the worse culprit


Rick, ******* dust filter... 20" box fan with a furnace filter taped to the intake side. It works surprisingly well.


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

> Rick, ******* dust filter... 20" box fan with a furnace filter taped to the intake side. It works surprisingly well.


Far be it from me to disagree, esp. with someone on the moderation team 

The box fan/furnace filter does indeed work well at removing large dust particles, but I must agree with Tom that the ultrafine and invisible particles are the most dangerous to your health. Standard furnace filters can't trap them, so unless the box fan is vented directly outside, it just helps keep ultrafines suspended in your shop air longer- in my mind a counter-productive result.

While a nuisance, a good respirator mask is a must. Just my additional rant and .02, with no disrespect intended.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

jdonhowe said:


> Far be it from me to disagree, esp. with someone on the moderation team
> 
> The box fan/furnace filter does indeed work well at removing large dust particles, but I must agree with Tom that the ultrafine and invisible particles are the most dangerous to your health. Standard furnace filters can't trap them, so unless the box fan is vented directly outside, it just helps keep ultrafines suspended in your shop air longer- in my mind a counter-productive result.
> 
> While a nuisance, a good respirator mask is a must. Just my additional rant and .02, with no disrespect intended.


Go ahead, disagree with me all you want.  I can handle it... :nhl_checking: I never offer solutions and claim that they are "the only one" for a particular situation. 

I agree 100% on the mask. I NEVER use my saw/router/sander without one. I only have one pair of lungs. Never considered the fine particulate, that's a good point. I wonder if a better quality filter, maybe a hepa style filter, would trap them?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

BrianS said:


> Go ahead, disagree with me all you want.  I can handle it... :nhl_checking: I never offer solutions and claim that they are "the only one" for a particular situation.
> 
> I agree 100% on the mask. I NEVER use my saw/router/sander without one. I only have one pair of lungs. Never considered the fine particulate, that's a good point. I wonder if a better quality filter, maybe a hepa style filter, would trap them?


Seems to me it would take a huge amount of air flow to move air through a hepa filter. But it could really be a necessity if you want to port the air back into the shop. Some info from the web: 

HEPA stands for High Efficiency Particulate Air (filter). HEPA was a top-secret technology developed during the 1940s by the United States Atomic Energy Commission to efficiently filter radioactive particulate contaminants. HEPA is a type of highly efficient filtration media that removes microscopic particles from air that passes through the filter. There are different efficiency ranges depending on particle size. The most efficient HEPA filter removes 99.7% of particles with a size of 0.3 microns that enter the filter. Such particles include tobacco smoke, household dust, and pollen. HEPA filters are most commonly found in household vacuum cleaners and air filters. Depending on their usage and indoor air quality factors, it is suggested that HEPA filters be replaced every 12 to 18 months.

dangerous dust is defined by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as the fraction size of dust that enters the body but is trapped within the nose, throat and upper respiratory tract. On average, the diameter of dust particles is about 10 nanometers. That is about 1/2500ths of an inch

The Jet air filter filters out dust down to between 5 and 1 nanometers. But it needs to be run for a couple of hours after leaving the shop, and for safety, you still need a respirator with a good filter while working in the shop as well as dust collection.

When I started being concerned was while cleaning up the shop, I dug into nooks and crannies that are normally hard to reach and found an enormous amount of loose sawdust. And when I inspected closer, I found the ultra fine dust was covering everything, tools, tables, shelves, stored wood, etc. I had been dealing with a worsening cough and figured the dust wasn't helping. What an understatement that turned out to be!

I recently read that health studies of long term commercial woodworking shop employees show that 100 percent over time develop lung and breathing problems related to fine dust particles. 

All this adds up to the need for an abundance of caution regarding dust. A 20x20 filter taped to a fan is just not going to cut it. Its only going stir up the most dangerous particles. I love woodworking, so I'm going to keep at it, but not without a ventilated filtering mask, dust collection and air filtration every time I enter the shop. I'm having a new shed installed next week and it will be sawdust free for finishing and storage. I'm getting extra windows and insulation so I can hang out there and even use it for writing. The shed with all the tools and sawdust won't be my hangout anymore.:cray:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> they're teenagers making xmas presents...
> one is addicted to the lathe and scroll saw...
> the other, hand tools all the way... has the mind set of "we don't need no stinkin' power tools"...
> hand cut a lock miter sometime and let me know how ya did... or a relief carving...
> ...


Well they have horseshoes...they couldn't have found a better mentor! 
( I still say they shouldn't be allowed to leave the shop till it's **** & span. My old woodwork instructor's Prime Directive; he didn't care if you were late for your next class. _ "Leave it like you found it._"


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Well they have horseshoes...they couldn't have found a better mentor!
> ( I still say they shouldn't be allowed to leave the shop till it's **** & span. My old woodwork instructor's Prime Directive; he didn't care if you were late for your next class. _ "Leave it like you found it._"


dust on the floor is all it is...
everything else is tended to...
they're out in the shop now working on their presents.......

shop closes this Sunday......


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Well they have horseshoes...


nope...
clocks, toys and furniture....


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