# Current iteration of Sommerfeld router table



## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

I'm looking at Sommerfeld's router table after seeing one in operation at a woodworking trade show in Nashville. The reviews have been very scant, and I only found two comments on the whole Internet, one from a guy saying the table wasn't flat and true (which could be because it ships as three extrusions that are bolted together and he didn't think to lay them upside-down on a flat surface to attach them before mounting to the table or because the extrusion process is flawed and forced the aluminum through at an unsteady pace causing the individual extrusions to not be flat) and a second comment confirming the first without detail. I've noticed that Sommerfeld occassionally has an engineering bugger, like a tongue-and-groove bit set that fails to close by 1/32" of an inch because the groove is too deep or tongue to shallow, but such buggers are always quickly fixed, making me expect that if there was a table problem, it would have been fixed quickly as well. Does anybody have any experience with this table in the last few months?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Doc

I can see suggesting anything to you is going to be a hard one.. 

But I will suggest you forget the new Sommerfeld's router table and take a hard look at the older Sommerfeld's router table ,,,I and 6 other members have one of the older types ..and it's great 


As far as the bit set,, Marc came out with his own and used the sharper type to make is new set(s) that's to say they now cut 1/2" deep unlike the norm of 7/16" deep..but they still sale the older type 
It makes it a lot essayer to "finger" out the parts to the door frames. 


http://www.amazon.com/CMT-999-500-0...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1230569335&sr=1-1
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http://www.routerforums.com/92179-post1.html

http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...strio-router-table-system-orange-cabinet.html
http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...-11-5-handle-spread-how-prevent-problems.html

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/8295-sommerfeld-router-table.html
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Doc Jackson said:


> I'm looking at Sommerfeld's router table after seeing one in operation at a woodworking trade show in Nashville. The reviews have been very scant, and I only found two comments on the whole Internet, one from a guy saying the table wasn't flat and true (which could be because it ships as three extrusions that are bolted together and he didn't think to lay them upside-down on a flat surface to attach them before mounting to the table or because the extrusion process is flawed and forced the aluminum through at an unsteady pace causing the individual extrusions to not be flat) and a second comment confirming the first without detail. I've noticed that Sommerfeld occassionally has an engineering bugger, like a tongue-and-groove bit set that fails to close by 1/32" of an inch because the groove is too deep or tongue to shallow, but such buggers are always quickly fixed, making me expect that if there was a table problem, it would have been fixed quickly as well. Does anybody have any experience with this table in the last few months?


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

My suggestion, stay away from aluminum tables. They leave black marks on your wood that can't be removed without a lot of sanding, or planing.
That's one of the main reasons I bought an iron top table saw, and want to replace my bandsaw.

You have already mentioned possible trouble spots with the Sommerfeld setup. Why take a chance?


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

David you could always conceder making your own table, I know some folks are a little intimidated by that notion but it isn't all that hard. You can buy router table kits that have all but the table top and that some folk have made from MDF or particle board, and laminating it themselves. If that doesn't work for you then buying one is for sure the way to go and I don't know if more $$$$ means better or just more $$$$. Visit lots of sites and read up on the advantages and disadvantages of both.

You can see mine in my gallery, and mine is still a work in progress I have a long way to go. What ever you do have fun and be safe.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I would just hawk Amazon and wait until the entire CMT(Old Sommerfeld setup} goes on sale again. It went as low as 350.00 for the table, fence, cabinet and insert with 2 rings! Plus some Feather boards to boot.

Its back up to 602.00, but has been changing every few days and will go back to the 300.00 to 350.00 price. 

When it does go back down in price I just have to get the set up again. I sold one of the setups and regret it!

router table plus cabinet

Actually on check out the entire price goes down by 15% to 512.00 with no tax or shipping charged. Still a a steal! even at that price! I am kicking myself for not buying it when the price went to 297 with the discount! I just love the pivoting fence.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI NIck

Down to 250.oo at one time  and 3 guys I know about got one at that time..I was lucky I got it for 234.oo.. 
"Amazon Instant Order Update for Robert. You purchased this item on December 19, 2007. View this order."

See other links above ▲
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nickao65 said:


> I would just hawk Amazon and wait until the entire CMT(Old Sommerfeld setup} goes on sale again. It went as low as 350.00 for the table, fence, cabinet and insert with 2 rings! Plus some Feather boards to boot.
> 
> Its back up to 602.00, but has been changing every few days and will go back to the 300.00 to 350.00 price.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes I really am kicking myself. That had to be the best deal of the year. After so many tables I have used and made, I always come back to that one. If it goes to 300.00 again then its reduced to 255.00 at checkout. I think even at 600.00 it is still comparable to other tables in that price range.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick 

I can't tell you how good of a deal it was ,,,,I got a extra complete free fence in the deal....  

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nickao65 said:


> Yes I really am kicking myself. That had to be the best deal of the year. After so many tables I have used and made, I always come back to that one. If it goes to 300.00 again then its reduced to 255.00 at checkout. I think even at 600.00 it is still comparable to other tables in that price range.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I should never have sold one.


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

What is the base made of on those Orange CMT router tables? (The orange part)

If they get down that low, it certainly would seem like a great buy.

SB


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Particle Board - laminate on top.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI SB

The key to this cabinet is the way they made it,,CNC made with very spec.fasteners ,so it's hard to destroy the cabinet, the top is 3/4" solid phenolic,But that's why they get 395.oo just for the top the norm...with thick white laminate on top of that... .and it's flat.. 

http://www.amazon.com/CMT-999-501-0...ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1230607624&sr=1-2

CMT Fence 398.oo dollars the norm...
http://www.amazon.com/CMT-999-501-1...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1230608943&sr=1-1
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nickao65 said:


> Particle Board - laminate on top.


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Greetings, Gentlemen,

I see a lot of valuable experience here, and want to thank everyone who has contributed. I've still not made a decision, because it's not urgent for at least a couple more weeks, but I've learned a few things since I started this thread and I've learned a few other things during the last 41 years that may be of value to some of you, so I'm just going to add it to the record for posterity and in case it inspires someone else to investigate and add to the knowledge base. I think I may also have a few outstanding questions to boot, so this is going to be fun.

First, I've seen the old table and it does indeed look great. I'm interested in the new table because the surface is much bigger and I love the way the fence works. I also, contrary to most people's preference, like the fact that it does not have an insert plate, because every insert plate I've ever used deflects under the weight of a 3HP router and I own too many routers for an insert plate to be of any advantage to me.

I noticed that several of you have had a bad experience with aluminum leaving black marks on your work. I have two Bosch aluminum tables (one with Bosch's name and another, my first "store-bought" router table, with Craftsman's name but made by Bosch and identical to my Bosch table), and early in the Craftsman's tenure in my shop it was indeed terrible about leaving black marks on anything that was even a little wet. However, after paying enough for that table to buy two good routers, I sprayed a couple of thin layers of satin finish polyurathane on it and hit the surface with a bit of Pledge from time to time. 

It doesn't leave any kind of marks and makes the table very easy to move work across. In the very long time I've had those tables, I washed the polyurethane coating off of one of them once (with lacquer thinner) and resprayed it. This really doesn't come to bear on the Sommerfeld table until the annodized coating wears off, but I wanted to mention it mainly for any others who might find themselves with an expensive aluminum table and not using it for fear of black marks.

I talked with Sommerfeld's master woodworker (a rather knowledgeable woman whose name was "Donna," if memory serves) about the concerns that the new table is not flat. She was detailed, accurate and very open about pro's and con's, and here's the scoop. The table ships in three extrusions, and the surfaces of each extrusion are perfectly flat; however, the extruder will guarantee no more than to be within 0.015" of perfectly flat once the three extrusions are assembled. She said that about 85% of the ones they have randomly tested have been perfectly flat if assembled on a flat reference surface, but the other 15% were within that 0.001"-0.015" tolerance and their policy was to not exchange them as long as they were within that guaranteed range. 

I can see their point, but I'm not yet sure how this will affect my decision. The table is 27" deep, and 0.015" across a 27" surface seems too small to be significant. That discrepancy would occur 4.5" from the center of the bit (the hole is in the middle of the table), that would throw the cut off by 0.000375 degrees from a true right angle. I don't know many machinists, including myself (I do a lot of machine work in building custom tools and restoring firearms), that work to such a tight tolerance, and that is the worst case. But then the little guy on the other shoulder is whispering, "But it's not FLAT!" so the jury is still out on that one.

I have built my own tables as one of you suggested; indeed, that was all I used until buying my first table about 12-15 years ago. I was never satisfied with them because they didn't stay flat or the surface got buggered up (melamine is great stuff if you don't have to touch it with anything). The best luck I ever had was with two pieces of 3/4" MDF face-glued and skinned on all surfaces, including edge-banding, with Nevamarr countertop laminate. It was hard, slick, and held its shape for a long time, but we've all watched MDF disintegrate and the weak spots in this table were the edges of the miter track and the hole where the inserts went around the router bit. I got about four years of near daily use out of that table top, and it didn't sag under the weight of a 3HP router, but I'm getting four times that at present from an aluminum top that functions fine as long as I'm diligent about maintaining the surface, hence my interest in (but not insistance upon, by a long shot) another aluminum table.

Another thing that intrigued me about this Sommerfeld table is the size. It's a lot bigger than any of the other commercial tables I've seen. Does anyone know off-hand how its size compares to Sommerfeld's previous table? The size is appealing because I do a lot of larger pieces, like stiles, rails, and muntins for large doors and some pretty large raised panels to go in them. Even on a piece of 5/4 oak or mahogany stock 7'-8' long I prefer the table to a handheld with edge guide, but as you can imagine, sometimes controling that much material can be a little tricky with a small table top.

In the end, I'm interested in the new Sommerfeld table because of its size, its fence, and the absence of an insert plate. At this point, one option I'm entertaining is to build my own top (like the one described above with Nevamarr cladding) with an aluminum insert so the rings won't wear out the hole and with the T-tracks for the fence one the edges like the Sommerfeld and use his fence (any of you who have ever used a Bosch or Bosch-made Crafstman table will immediately recognize why I'm saying this). This has turned into a great learning adventure for me, and I hope that at least some of the rest of you are learning a thing or two from it as well. And by the way, I'm just discussing and adding to the knowledge base here, not debating or arguing with anyone. There are a bazillion ways to skin every cat, and I'm grateful to all of you who responded so far for sharing what you know. It will all eventually be a big help to me and others in making this kind of decision.

Have a great evening!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well Sommerfeld himself does not like the insert plates either. Everytime I took a seminar or listened to him speak he always mentioned making a table more like a shaper. No plate, metal and large, above the table shaft lock and bit changing. I think he tried to get most of that in this iteration of the table.

I never had an issue with aluminum either so though many have mentioned it to me the one aluminum plate I have that is 5 years old still leaved no marks. It is from Woodpecker.

Woodpecker makes a HUGE table out of the MDF and is bigger than this Sommerfeld table, but it has a plate and of course you wanted none.

I for one want you to get the table out of selfish reasons. So you can tell us the real scoop on this thing!


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> Well Sommerfeld himself does not like the insert plates either. Everytime I took a seminar or listened to him speak he always mentioned making a table more like a shaper. No plate, metal and large, above the table shaft lock and bit changing. I think he tried to get most of that in this iteration of the table.


Interesting! A shaper is basically a router table with a dedicated motor hung under an iron table that runs big ol' honkin' bits, so that makes a lot of sense to me. I've started to buy a shaper on several occasions, and I really don't know what has kept me from it. I may have been better off with a shaper for a lot of the stuff that required the 3HP router.



nickao65 said:


> I never had an issue with aluminum either so though many have mentioned it to me the one aluminum plate I have that is 5 years old still leaved no marks. It is from Woodpecker.


Do you or anyone else know if the Woodpecker table has some sort of clear-coat on it? I've seen the black stains the other gents mentioned on my first table before coating it, and I can't think of anything other than that or being annodized that would stop it.



nickao65 said:


> Woodpecker makes a HUGE table out of the MDF and is bigger than this Sommerfeld table, but it has a plate and of course you wanted none.


Do you have a model number on the Woodpecker MDF table you mentioned? I'd like to check it out. My problem with insert plates is that they sag under the weight of the router unless they are very rigid, which usually means aluminum, which is a lot more expensive than rosin or phenolic, but if it doesn't sag and the insert ring threads don't wear out, it could be worth it as long as the leveling mechanisms are well-made. 

(That's the other thing I despise about my Bosch tables. The leveling system is just some screws punched through the phenolic insert and they are threaded coarsely so leveling has to be done by putting a Phillips bit in a quarter-inch socket and using the socket wrench to turn it to be able to move it slowly enough to be effective.)



nickao65 said:


> I for one want you to get the table out of selfish reasons. So you can tell us the real scoop on this thing!


I've been considering that option since this question came up. Product testing and reporting is just as valuable to a group like this as tips and tricks on technique and material buying, adhesive chemistry and performance, and finishing. (I guess that's why the woodworking magazines include those same categories, huh? LOL!) I am set up for both woodworking and metalworking/machining, and have the precision tooling for machining that could tell me if the new Sommerfeld table is accurate and probably come up with a fix for it if it's a little off, so based on what we've already discussed, I don't really risk that much if I buy one, and if it does turn out to be what they promise, the cabinet and door makers in this forum might really benefit from the information.

Speaking of which, there is something on Sommerfeld's new fence (I don't know if it's on the old one) that is a really great idea for a zero-clearance bit insert. They mill inserts with a 15° bevel on the sides and a complimentary bevel in the fence so that the insert just slides out the bottom, held in only by a bit of friction and the support of the table underneath. Anyone using a hardwood skin on an aluminum or homemade fence could use this same technique. The bevels face outward on the insert and inward on the ends of the fence. Sommerfeld's demo's show inserts that have had a dozen or more different profiles punched through them, but if a man had a bunch of small pieces of something like 2/4 or 3/4 hard maple or any other hardwood that doesn't burn easily, he could make a bunch of inserts from scrap and have zero-clearance for all his bits that could benefit from it at no cost.

That's it for now...the hunt continues...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Doc

Inserts,,, it's best to use the same type of stock for the inserts..they must be dead on ,the same as the fence..
I made some but it's tricky to get the all the same size. see below

You can buy the stock from Peach at the right price..
http://www.ptreeusa.com/uhmwproducts.htm
http://www.ptreeusa.com/routerTables.htm

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Doc Jackson said:


> Interesting! A shaper is basically a router table with a dedicated motor hung under an iron table that runs big ol' honkin' bits, so that makes a lot of sense to me. I've started to buy a shaper on several occasions, and I really don't know what has kept me from it. I may have been better off with a shaper for a lot of the stuff that required the 3HP router.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Hi

The woodpecker is 27" x 43", so it is 7" longer than the Sommerfeld table(27" x 36").

Here is the link:

http://www.woodpeck.com/rt2743.html

I had the table with the incra LS set up and it rocked. Alas I had to sell it to make space for items I used more.

The shape may not help you as the extra space is not across its width which I suspect may be more important to you.

If adding the Incra it is a great top though, becasue nothing from the LS hangs off the back.

One note, you must attach the lower metal supports(Thick L brackets) as soon as you get the table or it may warp.


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## Bøb (Aug 12, 2006)

Hey Doc .. .. I too, have the "OLD" Sommerfeld/CMT table top and am VERY pleased with it. I have a friend who bought the new "IMPROVED" aluminum top, and, while it is nice, neither of us really see any big advantage for the extra $$$$. My top was a version without use of an insert .. .. I really like this setup .. nothing to level or move around on me.

I'm just up the street from you a bit (Cleveland, TN.) and if you'd like, stop by and check out this setup. Nothing like actually using a setup to see how it works for YOU. My buddy with the new improved system is in south Bradley county, and I can arrange for you to view it also if you'd like.

Feel free to contact me .. .. I won't post a phone # here, but I'm in the book if you look me up .. .. .. 

Bob Wingard


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> Hi
> 
> The woodpecker is 27" x 43", so it is 7" longer than the Sommerfeld table(27" x 36").
> 
> The shape may not help you as the extra space is not across its width which I suspect may be more important to you.


Actually this might indeed be a better option. I do doors, and part of the problem I have with my current table is the lack of support for the long and heavy stiles of a full-sized door. I'll check it out. Thanks!


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

<<<__Bøb__>>> said:


> Hey Doc .. .. I too, have the "OLD" Sommerfeld/CMT table top and am VERY pleased with it. I have a friend who bought the new "IMPROVED" aluminum top, and, while it is nice, neither of us really see any big advantage for the extra $$$$. My top was a version without use of an insert .. .. I really like this setup .. nothing to level or move around on me.
> 
> I'm just up the street from you a bit (Cleveland, TN.) and if you'd like, stop by and check out this setup. Nothing like actually using a setup to see how it works for YOU. My buddy with the new improved system is in south Bradley county, and I can arrange for you to view it also if you'd like.
> 
> ...


Hi Bob!

I really appreciate that. I'll try to give you a call sometime this week. Also, I'm going to "The Woodworking Show" in Atlanta on Friday, Jan. 24, and a cabinetmaker friend of mine is riding along. Would you like to join us? We'll be taking my van because we have a lot of stuff to pick up, and there's room for one or two more.


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

*Time to put it to the test...*

Well, Gents, I'm off to Atlanta this Friday to get everything Sommerfeld has for cabinet and doormaking that I don't already own, and I'll be back with a full report within a couple of weeks. So far, I absolutely love his tongue-and-groove cabinetmaking bit set and his Easy Set bit height setting jig. I did find out one thing that everyone needs to know with regard to Sommerfeld bits, though.

The bit sets are meticulously height-matched so that if you set up the groove bit in the tongue-and-groove set, you do not change the height of the bit when you insert the tongue-making bit. This is only possible if your router does not have to come to the top of the table for bit changes, meaning that routers like the Freud FT1700 that are made specifically for above the table changing and will only lock the shaft when the bit is fully raised lose the benefit of this height-matching. The Easy Set jig is a lot of help, but it still requires test cuts. Luckily I did have an older router that I could lock from under the table and open the collet with an offset wrench, so a router change spared me that, but I'm going to grab one of those Triton routers Sommerfeld sells to go in the table at the show.

This will be interesting, especially if I can get together with <<<__Bøb__>>> up in Cleveland so we can compare the two side by side. Speaking of which, <<<__Bøb__>>> are you going with me to Atlanta on Friday? If so, e-mail [email protected] so we can coordinate. Another local cabinetmaker friend is going with me, and I have room for two more in my van before encroaching on needed space for cargo transport.

Have a great evening everybody! 
Doc


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## boardfoot (Aug 13, 2005)

I baught the old style Sommerfeld's router table about 5 years ago and wouldn't trade it for anything. I also bought his tongue and groove set as well as his raised panel cabinet set (the bits are matched length), and they are great. Good quality. I would buy the same thing again.
Larry


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## Bøb (Aug 12, 2006)

Hey Doc .. sorry I didn't get back on this forum sooner to get your message. Thanks for the offer, but I had to go to the show today (Sat.) instead of Friday. What a bummer !! !! That show USED to be 6-8 times bigger than this !! !!

Next year, they are supposed to be moving it back to Gwinnett Civic Center .. maybe that will help .. who knows ??

I got a few little things, but was really disappointed at the lack of vendors.

I'm sure you saw Marc's new 3-router setup there .. .. I've seen shapers like this, but never router tables. I think I'm going to keep my single setup, and maybe build a 2-machine setup to complement it. That way, I can use 1, 2, or 3 routers at a time to reduce setup & bit changes. I have enough room (yeah, right) to store the idle machine, so it's not a big problem.

I'm still trying to get my dust collection ductwork finished, but please do stop by & see what it looks like so far.


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

<<<__Bøb__>>> said:


> Hey Doc .. sorry I didn't get back on this forum sooner to get your message. Thanks for the offer, but I had to go to the show today (Sat.) instead of Friday. What a bummer !! !! That show USED to be 6-8 times bigger than this !! !!
> 
> Next year, they are supposed to be moving it back to Gwinnett Civic Center .. maybe that will help .. who knows ??
> 
> ...


No problem, Bob. I've been out of town since the show until this evening, but I did get a chance to dig that Triton TRC001 (3.25 HP) that Sommerfeld recommends out of the box and that is one sweet router. It's a little louder than my Hitachi, but the controls are great, the lighted switch with protective cover is great, and the fan cooling system blows air toward the bit instead of out the top, so it repels saw dust from the motor instead of drawing it in. I love that rack-and-pinion depth adjustment, too.

I'm drafting plans for a cabinet to mount that table upon, and I'll catch up with you as soon as I have it operational so we can compare them. At first glance, I'm in love with this thing, but there's always a devil in the details somewhere. It has a thick, hard anodized coating to keep the wood from contacting the aluminum, the fence rocks, and it is so heavy that between it and the router there's going to be too much weight for their to be any vibration felt. BUT, I don't know yet how flat it will be after assembly, and to accommodate the large doormaking bits, a pattern-following bit is used to route away part of the aluminum base of the Triton router, which looked easy on the video, but you never know what's going to happen when metal moving at high speed meets another metal. ;-)

I'll report in as soon as I get it assembled!


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Well Gents, the table is together, and it was a lot of fun!

The first time I assembled the table, I flipped it over and put a 36" Veritas straightedge to it and about hit the roof. The outside sections of the 3-piece table were forming a "Z" pattern, out about 0.040. I assembled it face-down on my tablesaw bed, which I know is dead flat. I started to call and ask for a replacement, but I remembered from a few years of being the engineering manager at a steel and alloy fabrication plant that sometimes the draftsmen in the design department do strange things to make up for errors and that aluminum extrusions are just strange animals in general, and I swapped the outside pieces. It laid dead flat when I flipped it back over. Needless to say, I was pleased as punch. I checked it again after mounting the 3.25 HP Triton TRC001 and it was still dead flat, tested by laying that straightedge across the table at various points and tilting it up to rest on a sharp edge and hitting the back side with bright light, no "leaks" under the straightedge. 

With the motor's cooling fan blowing toward the bit rather than away, most of the dust ends up getting pulled into the dust port in the fence. That makes me happy, believe me. 

The pivoting fence is a great idea. It doesn't track parallel to the miter slot when in pivoting configuration, but if you take Sommerfeld's recommendation and use a large, square push block to move the work through the bit to avoid tear-out or blow-out, the miter guage slot is entirely moot, although it could still be handy for a featherboard if you were pushing small parts. 

The only downside I've found with this set-up is the very reason I bought it: sheer size. It's almost as big as my table saw as far as the footprint (and in fact is 27 inches deep to make it easy to use as a table extension on the saw), but if you have a very small shop, like a one-car garage, you're not going to have the space for it, and should look at the previous generation that the other gurus in here have been talking about, because it's another fine table. If you do a lot of large doors, entry doors, headboards and footboards for beds, or large chests or other furniture, the added table size will be a delight, but if you're doing jewelry boxes and other smaller projects, this is way too much table.

I'll post more as I try different types of work, both on quality and production through-put, as I realize that it's easy to love any "shiny new toy," but so far, it's as good in my shop as it was in the demonstrations.


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## breeze (Jan 13, 2009)

So all in all are you happy with the table and router?


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## fishriverfool (Jan 24, 2009)

I was at the Atlanta woodworking show and spent a lot of time looking at Sommerfeld's table and set up. I did not buy one but I'm still very much interested and would greatly appreciate hearing more about your experience with your new purchase. Bob


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Update: I made some cabinets and raised panel doors today with this new table and router and Sommerfeld's tongue-and-groove cabinetmaking bits and raised panel bits, and I'm tickled pink. So far I'd have to say I'd recommend it to anyone who has the space for it in their shop and especially if he or she works on larger pieces. I find a new reason to love that Triton router every time I flip the switch, too. The only negative I've found so far is in the auxilliary power switch that Sommerfeld sells. It seems to be a decent quality switch, but the design is poorly arranged. The plug-in for the router comes out the front instead of out one of the sides, so the cord sticks out, and it only has one outlet, so pluggin in the shop vac and having it turn on when the router does is not an option as it's sold. Tomorrow I'm going to fix that by cutting the plug off of an air-conditioner extension cord and wiring that to a duplex outlet mounted elsewhere on the cabinet so I can get the cord out of the way (using a 90° plug so it will lay flat when plugged into the switch, too) and gain the extra outlet for the dust collection.

One other thing I forgot to note from the show. The Sommerfeld rep advised me to by Kreg's drawer slide jig instead of Sommerfeld's. He said the Sommerfeld jig works great, but it only works with Blum hardware, and the Kreg is more versatile. Made sense to me.

I would also STRONGLY advise anyone contemplating a purchase to do it at one of these shows (see www.thewoodworkingshows.com for the schedule). The discounts from Sommerfeld, Kreg, Woodline, and Carter (got a set of high-performance guides for my bandsaw and they ROCK!) were more than substantial.

Speaking of Woodline, Wayne, the owner, is a great man and great businessman. He gives great demonstrations at the show, discounts the dickens out of a lot of products, and is a joy to talk with. They also sell some very good cabinetmaking bits and project kits.

Another of the show vendors I'd recommend is Stockroom Supply (stockroomsupply.com). They have kits for building "sanding mops." Strips of sandpaper are placed on a mandrel that is chucked in a drill press and used to sand routed profiles. Highly effective and much easier and more accurate than trying to follow a profile with a sanding sponge or contour block.

Sorry about getting off-topic for a minute but I wanted to get those details down before I forgot about them.

More later as I find more to report...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Doc what was the show price for the entire set up? I assume you just purchased the cabinetmaking set that includes everything?

I know that they will honor the show price if you call to order within a week or two of the show you were at, I just can not recall the show price.

Nick


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> Doc what was the show price for the entire set up? I assume you just purchased the cabinetmaking set that includes everything?
> 
> I know that they will honor the show price if you call to order within a week or two of the show you were at, I just can not recall the show price.
> 
> Nick


I got a whole lot of stuff aside from the basic setup to create what I would call the entire setup, and I already had some parts of it, so giving you an exact number would be inaccurate because I don't really know what you would call "the entire setup" (I added all of the door templates, a bunch of router bit sets, etc.). 

However, I did notice two things as it was being tallied. The show prices were consistently 10%-20% lower than the catalog prices, and because I was getting the whole package (what I got totaled over $2,000, but the basic setup was only about $1,150 to get table, Triton router, door templates, router bit sets mentioned in catalog, hinge boring and handle/pull boring jigs, etc.) he was knocking another $10-$25 off of the show price on everything I added to the basic setup. Short answer: there is a huge difference in the catalog price, show price, and show price for a large purchase. I think I tallied up on the way home that I saved about $800 off the catalog price, so driving a few hours to get to a show will still be worth your while.

I'll try to find the invoice and give you some real numbers, but I got so much stuff that I may not have time to include the catalog prices for comparison within my post, so you should go to www.sommerfeldtools.com and request a catalog.

As far as performance, I am still loving it. I have yet to do anything that requires the fence to be parallel to the miter track because Sommerfeld puts guide bearings on virtually all of his router bits, and having that pivot pin in one end of the fence coupled with the height-matched bits really takes a lot of the hassle and time out of cabinet and frame-and-panel doormaking. 

And another big tip for anyone trying to do production work or simply aggravated by the normal panel glue-up process: I've found that if I use a glue-line joint profile (basically a zig-zag) applied to the edge-grain of panel members, having that pattern align the panel members during glue-up instead of having to fight with battons and clamps to keep everything even is well worth the small amount of extra time and material it takes to put the profile on the edges. Panels glue up near-perfectly to perfectly aligned by just squeezing them into the clamps, taking all the hassle out of a panel glue-up.

More later!
Doc


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Well Gents, it's been awhile. And I am still ecstatic. 

I have attached this massive router table to my table saw bed, leveled the two and clamped them underneath so that they stay level but I can disconnect them to move one or the other for cleaning, engineering, etc. I replaced the 30" fence rail on my Biesemeyer fence with a 50" one, and now, with the addition of a "Leg Up" device, I can throw full sheets of oak plywood up on that table by myself, rip and slice them, tongue and groove them on the router table (Sommerfeld's tongue and groove cabinetmaking bit set and method rock the world), and mill all the door parts and assemble them in a 20'x20' shop with room to spare and without need of help to handle the plywood, thanks to a Gorilla plywood carrier and the aforementioned "Leg Up." Life is good.

By the way, I have an 8" jointer tucked under the other edge of the table saw, and when making entry doors, having that much table space with the tablesaw and router table joined makes running full length entry door stock and large panels a breeze, even in that small of a space. So even though the table is large, efficient space planning and utilization makes it great for my small shop.

Quality update: I've been using the whole setup and the bits a lot since the show, and the table is still dead flat (no light leaks under a Veritas straightedge when laid on it anywhere except if laid across the tracks). The router is still perfect, and much to my surprise, I haven't dulled the router bits yet, even though I've been cutting poplar, red oak, white oak, and plywood of red and white oak. That may be in part due to some advice I got from one of the guys at Woodline USA, who demonstrated that pushing material through the bits faster actually helps to keep them cooler and makes them last longer.

So if I had it to do over again, I'd do it twice.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Looking like the Sommerfeld is better than many say. I think this thing with the top not being flat may be overblown.

I have said before I really never had a top go un-flat(if that is a word) that it effected my work. And I have used almost every surface.

Great choice on the Sommerfeld stuff I always liked it!


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## cpeisher (May 13, 2009)

Doc, i have the sommerfeld system including the table, fence, triton 3.25HP router, tongue and groove cabinetmaking set, dovetail jig, etc. I even built the router table cabinet as my first project on teh router table. I recently purchased a new table saw and would like to add the router table as my extension. Could you post or email some pictures of exactly how you attached your router table to your table saw? I may be too new here to get pm's yet since i dont have 10 posts. Im really just looking for some ideas on how to do it myself. Thanks and i really enjoyed reading your posts.


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

cpeisher said:


> Doc, i have the sommerfeld system including the table, fence, triton 3.25HP router, tongue and groove cabinetmaking set, dovetail jig, etc. I even built the router table cabinet as my first project on teh router table. I recently purchased a new table saw and would like to add the router table as my extension. Could you post or email some pictures of exactly how you attached your router table to your table saw? I may be too new here to get pm's yet since i dont have 10 posts. Im really just looking for some ideas on how to do it myself. Thanks and i really enjoyed reading your posts.


I just used some 6" F-clamps to pull the wings together underneath; you'll see what I mean when you look under there. Make sure you have the table tops level before tightening the clamps, and you don't have to tighten them very much. I used clamps rather than bolting it together so that it would be easy to move them for repairs or cleaning when needed.


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## eps355 (Jun 9, 2010)

Doc, 
I spoke with Donna at Sommerfeld's today, she is their expert. I have the three section Aluminum table and it is crowned in the middle. Donna recommended checking each section for flatness and if they are OK then assembling the table "rightside" up but leaving the bolts lose. Lay a straight edge across the table and tighten the bolts to the point where the straight edge begins to move. Leaving the connecting bolts as lose as necessary to maintain flatness. Then attach the endcap crossbars and tighten as necessary to prevent the individual sections from moving laterally. I have not tried this yet and hope it works.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

This thread is a year old ....


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Yes but that why we keep this kinda stuff around. BTW did you guys see my post on the CMT router bits and all. They have that Router Table you were talking about in the beginning of the thread on sale for $307, heres the link.,,. Up to 70% Off All CMT Orange Tools


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tommy

Did you see he caught his error and push the price up to 600.oo.. 
But it's out of stock now..good deals just don't last long ..
========



Tommyt654 said:


> Yes but that why we keep this kinda stuff around. BTW did you guys see my post on the CMT router bits and all. They have that Router Table you were talking about in the beginning of the thread on sale for $307, heres the link.,,. Up to 70% Off All CMT Orange Tools


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## laxknut (Oct 17, 2008)

It may be an old thread, but Doc J's input is great, and I would not have seen it if not for eps355 bringing it back to the surface. Good stuff!


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Yes, I called them on that but as the add states While Supplys Last, Once it hit backordered status up went the price. Ain,t Capitalism grand?


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

eps355 said:


> Doc,
> I spoke with Donna at Sommerfeld's today, she is their expert. I have the three section Aluminum table and it is crowned in the middle. Donna recommended checking each section for flatness and if they are OK then assembling the table "rightside" up but leaving the bolts lose. Lay a straight edge across the table and tighten the bolts to the point where the straight edge begins to move. Leaving the connecting bolts as lose as necessary to maintain flatness. Then attach the endcap crossbars and tighten as necessary to prevent the individual sections from moving laterally. I have not tried this yet and hope it works.


Donna is Marc Sommerfeld's daughter, and she's both a master woodworker and a competent engineer. The first thing to try when your table won't lie flat is to turn the middle section around. When I first got mine it was rather Z-shaped looking at it edge-wise, and reversing the middle section left it dead flat; I laid a machinist's straightedge across it and saw ZERO light under it all the way across.

A year after installing this table it is still dead flat, the Triton 3HP router is still humming like a sewing machine, and Sommerfeld's bits have all been used enough to have them sharpened several times. They are on-index and last quite well. I consider that table, router, and the many bit sets I bought at that trade show some of the best woodworking money I've ever spent.

Forgot to mention, when I bought this table their policy was to replace at no charge anything that wasn't exactly right. When I first put my table together and it wasn't flat, Marc Sommerfeld took the call himself, told me about reversing the middle section, and said that if it didn't flatten he'd ship me another. Frankly, I love the guy to death. He and his brother Craig ("KREG") have done a lot for the industry.


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## mattyj40 (Jul 17, 2010)

I bought the sommerfeld table about 3 years ago, it is my first high end table. I think it is awesome, i don't know if it is the "old top" or the "new top", but it is flat and built like a battleship. I used their plans to build the cabinet, and after that, I had aquired the skills to build kitchen cabinets for the laundry room. They came out so nice, I am going to renovate my own kitchen. Matt


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Tommy
> 
> Did you see he caught his error and push the price up to 600.oo..
> But it's out of stock now..good deals just don't last long ..
> ========


Not sure what the difference is, but Amazon has the 999.501.03 for $250

Amazon.com: CMT 999.501.03 Industrio Router Table Cabinet: Home Improvement

There's the link.
I take it all back, it's only the cabinet, no top included.


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## Doc Jackson (Dec 29, 2008)

Well Gents, here we are a year and a half from the original purchase, and I'm still happy as a pig in a mudhole with everything I bought. I've made several entry doors, 334 hardwood cabinet doors, cabinets for kitches, bathrooms, and my shop, a couple of entertainment centers, several built-in bookcases, and a mammouth built-in in my office that wraps three walls, and I have to say I can't imagine doing it any other way than Sommerfeld's. 

One big tip I'd like to pass along: If you're unable to afford quartersawn wood or just want crown figure in your doors, fight the urge to find the widest boards that you can and rip everything to a 3" width. It helps everything to remain flatter over time. If you're going to paint the panels, go another step further and turn every other plank upside down end-over-end, reversing both cupping and bowing direction. If the material does tend to bow or cup overtime, the opposing forces of adjoining planks will help to hold it flat.

I had to prove this to an old woodworker last summer. He had done commercial cabinet work for over 50 years, and in a production environment had learned to take many shortcuts that were bad for the work and often bad for him as well (I watched with teeth clenched as he ran board after board over my jointer barehanded and without pushblocks, passing his hand within a half-inch of a spiral carbide cutterhead while on the butt off the plank, where a sneeze could have sent the plank back into his groin or the heel of his hand down into the spinning cutterhead). 

He had electrical problems in his shop and I let him use mine while I was doing some engineering, and we were both working for the same guy on the same project. He used the widest stock he could find and didn't rip it down for the fastest glue-ups, and I ripped everything to three inches and flipped alternating planks (it was poplar and to be painted). My doors didn't warp, and his warped so badly that I ended up having to remake all of them. 

They say that practice makes perfect. It doesn't. It makes permanent. And if you do something the wrong way for 50 years it doesn't make you a better woodworker than the newbie who just got his first tablesaw and is reading from a book or watching a video as he makes his first cuts with careful attention to all fundamentals because he hasn't let learned to cheat and do it the lower-quality or more dangerous way. Personally I still subscribe to woodworking magazines just to have a steady flow of reminders of fundamentals in my face, because it is too easy to get into a high-pressure, insanely accelerated schedule and start taking shortcuts that hurt the workpiece or can hurt the woodworker. Never stray too far from the fundamentals of woodworking; ultimately you do so at your own peril.

A good day to all!

Doc


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## laxknut (Oct 17, 2008)

Hear Hear!


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