# Another Dado question...



## Mt-Pockets (Sep 9, 2009)

Hello Everyone,

I just picked up a 6" Forrest Dado king set.. Brand new... "Well"

used once... for $50.00.. I noticed that I don't have the Magnetic shims that originally came with ...

this is my first Dado set.. and w


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## robersonjr (Dec 5, 2009)

The Forrest set does not come with magnetis shims, it comes with plastic shims. these can be purchased from Forrest or an after market set is available at most woodworking/tool outlet stores. That is a nice set of blades, sells for around $250. new. Robbie


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Good purchase it is always neat to come across a good deal.


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## Mt-Pockets (Sep 9, 2009)

I've been wanting to buy a set of dado blades for awhile now, and I'm
glad I found someone with a set of Forrest blades for that price...

The Guy was a super nice person.. 


When I got home, I went to the Forrest Site and read this:


FORREST DADO KING SETS INCLUDE (with the exception of #DK0824316): 
•Blade runner plastic carrying case (except 12" size and DK0824316) 
•Two 24 tooth, carbide-tipped trim saw blades. 
•Four 1/8" kerf, 4 tooth chippers. 
•One 1/16" kerf, 4 tooth chipper. 
•One 3/32" kerf, 4 tooth chipper. 
•*Two each of .010, .012, .015 magnetic shims*
and that's what made me wonder....
A


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## robersonjr (Dec 5, 2009)

Dennis, I stand corrected, when I purchased my 8" Dado set there were no magnetic shims offered. Now that I revisited the Forrest web , I do see that they do offer them with the Dado sets. they can be purchased from Forrest for about $12., I do not see a need for me to change to them but at that price, combined with the cost deal you made, you have an excellent blade. Congradulations. Robbie


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I could be wrong but it does not matter if the shims are magnetic or not. My dado set uses plastic shims and they are color coded to let you know what size they are. 

As long as the arbor matches your saw for the shims you are in business. Look around for some and you should be up and in business.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Dado setups on table saws are almost outlawed in the U.K. No guards, arbors too short to take the locking nut, etc. health and safety! Are there many accidents with these in the U.S.?


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Is a router not safer and more convenient for cutting grooves/dados?


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## robersonjr (Dec 5, 2009)

I use both, and I say that as with most tools, each has it's place. As safety goes, a rotating cutter is dangerous, that said there is no safety device that will completly protect. Always use extra caution, if something looks dangerous, it probally is. Please keep your fingers as far away from spinning blades as possible. Push sticks and boards are much needed tools and should be used as much as possible. Robbie


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

More accidents with table saws than router table/hand router, the guards must be removed on the table saw where as the router you can add the guards over the bit or use the hand router and your fingers are always back and away from the cutting bit...the router base keeps fingers out of the way the norm..built in safety guard you could say..and that can't be removed 

I not to sure why anyone would want to use the dado blades in a table saw, I do use them now and then but in a RAS , as we all know it's not safe to cut stock on the table saw and not have the blade all the way up over the thickest of the stock ,it's so easy for the blade(s) to lift the stock up and shoot it out..the wider the cut the more it wants to lift the stock up.. 


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Mike Wingate said:


> Dado setups on table saws are almost outlawed in the U.K. No guards, arbors too short to take the locking nut, etc. health and safety! Are there many accidents with these in the U.S.?


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

My Eumenia RAS takes a device that allows the blade to cut a wide groove. The width is adjustable. It is inappropriately called a wobble attachment. The blade does move, but there is very little extra vibration, and the sides of the cut are vertical.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

My Arcoy rabetter has those. Little taper washers that go either side of the blade.

For a blast from the past see http://jluby.f2s.com/arcoy/leaflet.jpg and note the prices !
I've still got the dovetail jig, rabetter, plane and drill stand. All built like battleships. 

Cheers

Peter


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Mike, any accident that occurs is operator error. Failure to follow a procedure, fatigue, plain not paying attention. 

Cutting dado's on a TS vs the use of the Router, the same job still gets done. One is actually not better than the other. Again, safety procedures need to be taken for both operations. The only difference between the 2 is, setup time.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I think with anything there are inherent dangers to look out for. I suppose too it is what you are use to and for me I prefer to cut dado's on the table saw. 

I think Debbie will agree if you use the board buddeis ( Busy Bee Tools Product Detail ) rollers it will make things safer when it comes to using a dado blade on a table saw.

Either one is ok but in the end you as the users have to feel comfortable using it. Once things are set up I find it quicker to use the dado.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dan

If you want to do it the safe way you should try it will the hand router and a quick made jig..
I have the board buddeis and they are great but not made for dado work on the table saw..

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2711-dado-jig-plunge-router.html

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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I haven't tried dados on the TS with the dado set yet although I do have a set. I have done them with the regular blade by just adjusting the fence. (small grooves). I didn't like that the grooves were not flat bottomed and the corners of the grooves were not square. I imagine you don't get that with a dado set. 
All of the dados I have done with the router have been done on the router table, so I haven't got around to building a router dado jig yet. But I do get more consistent dados with the router. 
Regardless thanks to Bobj3 for putting me onto the "Board Buddies", yes Dan they do make any table saw operation safer! I have yet to try them on the router table but I am sure they will work excellent there as well!


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Deb... with a good dado set you end up with a pretty darned flat bottom, with the exception of the "bat ears" recesses where the ATB tooth edge was shearing the outer edges deeper than the bottom. Some see this as an advantage, to catch excess glue, but I prefer to have mine square. Another "one mans vice is to another a virtue" sort of thing...


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Jim after the holiday hoopla, I am going to break open that dado set of mine just to try it out.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

It sounds like a "moral imperative*" to me, Deb! 

* from the movie "Real Genius" with Val Kilmer


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

BigJimAK said:


> Deb... with a good dado set you end up with a pretty darned flat bottom, with the exception of the "bat ears" recesses where the ATB tooth edge was shearing the outer edges deeper than the bottom. Some see this as an advantage, to catch excess glue, but I prefer to have mine square. Another "one mans vice is to another a virtue" sort of thing...


 
Hi Jim,

This is what I tried to point out in a similar thread but, was told, the newer sets, no longer leave those "bat ears". 

Setup time IS faster with the router though AND, you see your work unlike with the TS. 

There are "board buddies" on the market for use with the RAS, TS & for shapers.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> This is what I tried to point out in a similar thread but, was told, the newer sets, no longer leave those "bat ears".
> 
> ...



I think whether or not a set leaves "bat ears" would depend on the quality of the set not just that it is a newer set. I have a friend who bought an economy set recently & said the bottoms were not square as it had those "bat ears". I have a Freud 8" Super Dado Set which is a couple of years old now & it leaves square flat bottoms. If that matters then I would look into what kind of finish result a certain set gives before spending the money no matter how much the set cost.

When using a dado set you are not cutting all the way through the material just part of it for the joint. Sometimes this joint shows, sometimes it's hidden by a face frame, trim, or a stopped dado. I think whether or not a set you buy leaves "bat ears" or not would depend on the end expectations of the project. 

For me I earn my living with my equipment it's not just a hobby. I know I have clients that would not be bothered to see a thicker glue line from a dado set that leaves those little "bat ears" it's very small anyways. I do have clients that would reject a piece because they are a little pickier & to them it would look a little sloppy. So I strive to give everybody good looking joints appealing to the pickier to cover myself.

I prefer the dado setup on the table saw over the router table because it does'nt take that much longer to set up & the table saw has better table support for larger pieces. If I have a stopped dado on a smaller piece then I sometimes use the router table.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

jlord said:


> I prefer the dado setup on the table saw over the router table because it does'nt take that much longer to set up & the table saw has better table support for larger pieces. If I have a stopped dado on a smaller piece then I sometimes use the router table.


I agree ... most of the time the dado slot is not visible so having a perfectly flat bottom is not required. 

a 8" diameter saw blade is going to work a lot more efficiently than a router bit to cut a dado.

Freud makes a box joint set with a special ground blade to provide a flat bottom groove if that's what's required. I don't know how often it goes on sale but I was able to get one for about $50 last year on amazon.

Amazon.com: Freud SBOX8 Box Joint Cutter Set, Cuts 1/4-Inch and 3/8-Inch grooves.: Home Improvement


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just think you can get a dado router bit set for 15.oo, just about any time of the year many make the sets from 15.oo to the higher end ones for 80.oo dollars .

After all how many times do you put in dado slots, not many I think, unless you are a cabinet/case maker.. ....

4 pc 1/2" SH Dado Plywood Straight Router Bit Set - eBay (item 140362910691 end time Dec-25-09 18:51:51 PST)

Freud Four Piece Undersized Plywood Bit Set - Rockler Woodworking Tools

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4 pc 1/2" SH Dado Plywood Straight Router Bit Set - eBay (item 140362910691 end time Dec-25-09 18:51:51 PST)


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi James,

This is why in the other thread, I suggested the router. You will always get that flat clean bottom cut with the router. 

I use both methods, TS and the router, even the RT. Again, I'm not against using the TS, for I do use it. I do and will support Bj with this one. $80-$100 for a dado saw blade set vs. what, $15 to $30 for a router bit? 

To add to Bj's links:

MLCS Straight & Plywood Straight Sets-production quality carbide tipped router bits at a great price!


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> After all how many times do you put in dado slots, not many I think, unless you are a cabinet/case maker.. ....[/url]


Hi Bob,
Dado's are a very easy to make and strong joint that I seem to use more and more all of the time...for everything from jigs to shelf units and cabinets 

here's what you said in another post comparing a slot cutter and a regular router bit..I thought it was good advice then and I think it is even better advice now that I use dado joints more often:

http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/10936-slot-cutter-rabbet-cutter-straight-bit.html#post90566

*Quote From bobj3:*

_*"Slot cutters will out last the norm router bit,,they have 3 or 4 cutters ,the norm.

Plus they clean the slot quicker, straight bits have a hard time getting the chips out and and of the way the cutting edge...they like to gang up in the slot and go around and around in the slot unlike the slot cutters, think of it as a very small but very true saw blade...you could call them a small set of dado saw blades when you stack them up..

Once you have a good set of slot cutters you will be amaze how many jobs they can do,,,, and do it better than a standard router bit.."*_


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Greg

I still stand behind that post , the slot cutters do a great job and it's always a true bottom cut unlike the normal table saw dado sets in the same price range..note the one slot cutter made just for the 1/4" plywood.

They are only use in the router table the norm and they are safe unlike the dado saw blades..you can use the same kind of jig for the vert.bits and the slot cutters that make them very safe way to put in dado slots but they do have a down fall ,the slots must be close to the edge of the board unlike the normal dado router bits...but I will say by using the hand router it's alot safer , the older we get the smarter we get..

11pc 1/2" Shank Slot, Tongue & Groove Router Bit Set - eBay (item 140369075500 end time Dec-28-09 10:01:38 PST)

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gregW said:


> Hi Bob,
> Dado's are a very easy to make and strong joint that I seem to use more and more all of the time...for everything from jigs to shelf units and cabinets
> 
> here's what you said in another post comparing a slot cutter and a regular router bit..I thought it was good advice then and I think it is even better advice now that I use dado joints more often:
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Just thought I'd share this.

Router Workshop: dado router vrs saw


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Not surprised to see how they push the router given the tear out on the dado cut with a table saw. Cheap dado sets or dull blades will certainly allow the results to be less than acceptable.

This can also be applied to a router bit as we all know. 

For me I have always used a good quality dado blade. I buy my blades from a local small business blade sharpening place in Edmonton. They carry quality blades like Dimar & Royce which many may never have heard of but it suits its name like the auto maker Rolls Royce. Once you cut with it you will be hard pressed to go back to a Dewalt blade or any other low cost blade. These higher quality blades allow you to sharpen many times over and in the long run will save you money.

Personally I think there is more chance for error on a hand held router when it comes to measuring out the dado's for shelving units. Set the blade once with a table saw and you are assured the same accuracy for multiple cuts where as since the router you have to move the jig each time to make the cuts and hence in my opinion more chance for error.

Having said this I must agree at times a router may be easier for a few dados. The new clamps with edge guides look like a handy tool for doing these tools. Many people have a tough time getting dados to fit snuggly with a dado set but there is a great video posted by Popular WoodWorking which shows a handy tip to get snug fitting dados. 

The other thing I do is bring a set of calipers with me to measure the plywood to make sure you get the same thickness. Again a good supplier will make the difference compared to Home Depot or RONA. (Generally appplies to plywood but even MDF now comes in two degrees of quality)

Sorry this DOG is going to stick to the tabe saw for the simple reason it works for me!


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> Just thought I'd share this.
> 
> Router Workshop: dado router vrs saw


I too use both methods for dados, but prefer the TS. for most of what I do. I'm a cabinet maker so I would use this process more than someone who is on the hobby side.The set I have leaves square flat bottoms & no "bat ears". I agree about the quality of the set you are using. 

I do not experience the type of tear-out the pictures show. I noticed there was no throat plate on the TS with the dado blade. I personally do not know anybody that would take the throat plate out & use the setup with out making a zero clearance plate as it is simple & quick to do. I think that practice is why people think the dado blade is more dangerous. That could be one reason for the large amount of chipout. I can't afford to have that kind of result when cutting up $90.00 sheets of A-1 grade plywood for a clients project.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

I use a shop made jig,(just a razor blade in a jig) to pre cut the wood fibers to stop the rip out of the blades and the router bits..

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