# Garden Bench



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Finished an outdoor bench. First 2 pictures show it in front of my house. Built it out of (mostly) clear western red cedar. I had some leftover 10/4 cedar planks that I used for large pieces. The design was derived from several plans. I used some Japanese design elements but for the most part the bench is very much English.

Construction is mortise and tenon. Tight Bond III adhesive. Pocket screws for the seat boards and pin nails for the back slats. Cedar is a lot of fun to work but it's soft and is easy to mar. It forces you to be a much more careful woodworker.

One question for you guys - what is the best finish for this? I'm thinking some sort of deck oil but would like to hear your thoughts.

There are a few things I wish I had done better. The M&Ts for the back could have been crisper. The curve for the seat isn't perfectly "spherical" so the seat boards don't look uniformly spaced (they actually are at the base).

Some tricks to make the assembly go easier. 3rd picture shows the slot in the seat top piece that the back slats go it. 4th picture shows router jig I made to cut the slots (yes, it's a crappy Freud router...). 5th picture shows how I aligned the slats before gluing the top. 6th & 7th picture shows the jig I used to space the back slats and keep them vertical. 8th picture shows clamping the frame for glue up (yes, those are ratcheting cargo straps) and the 9th shows how I kept the frame square.

A side table is being built, I'll post that in a few days.

A sketchup model is available if anyone wants it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow nice work Phil


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Nice work, Phil. That bench looks a lot like one I saw at a local Mexican food restaurant. I took a picture of it but yours looks a lot better.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

A beautiful project, Phil. Well done.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that came out sweet...


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## pal (Feb 13, 2008)

What they said. :sold::


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Very nicely done, like the look


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

That's a very nice piece of work. I've made lots of chairs and I appreciate how complicated it is to get everything lined up. If I may offer a suggestion the bottom groove for the rails will hold water. If it was solid and the rails were mortised and tenoned into it I think the piece would weather better.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Looks great, nice job! I am hoping someone will answer your"Finish" question. I have used Spar Varnish and was less than happy after a year.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Very nice looking bench. No recommendations on finish, although I've read recommendations that cedar be left unfinished and left to weather naturally - not sure about Seattle though. One thing I would recommend regardless of finish - put a vinyl/UHMW or similar block under the legs to keep them off the wet ground so that the water doesn't soak into the end grain which is where you normally see deterioration start in outdoor furniture.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

That came up really nice Phil, congratulations.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

denniswoody said:


> That's a very nice piece of work. I've made lots of chairs and I appreciate how complicated it is to get everything lined up. If I may offer a suggestion the bottom groove for the rails will hold water. If it was solid and the rails were mortised and tenoned into it I think the piece would weather better.


Yes, I knew that going in. Originally, I planned to cut spacers to fill the dado and glue them in. Not a great idea but better than pools of water. But, the bench will be sitting under a 3 foot overhang so it won't get a lot of water on it. M&T was a bit daunting because of having to get both top and bottom mortises perfectly lined up. Thought about drilling weep holes, too.

By the way, sketchup really helped to get all the angles just right. You can see in the attached pic how I was able to lay out the rear leg/post. No need to measure angles.


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Very beautiful bench Phil! Nicely done! congratulations!
Sid.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Phil, Very nice job! I would be interested in the sketchup files. Please post them...both bench and table. you may have to put them into a zip file to post.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Hmmm, the zip file is too big (15MB - 12 and change is the max). I'll see if I can cut it down.

Edit: wow, textures are FAT FAT FAT and SU does nothing to help with that. 17MB down to 3MB when I got rid of the textures and zip took it down to 1.5MB. So, here it is.

Edit 2: don't seem to be able to add attachments from edit. sigh.


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

Very nice Phill . I have several benches out in the woods on my property. I keep the finish real simple and apply it about every other year: 50% Turpintine and 50% Linseed Oil. I stay away from anything that leaves a coat like poly. I've found that at my elevation, about 8,000 ft , the ultraviolet is so so strong that anything like poly breaks down in a year or so and then you end up having to sand it all before applying a new coat.

Buck


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Here is the file.

To print, best to be in camera/parallel projection. Top view. Frame what ever you want to print. I prefer to export 2D/png and print from windows viewer. It's a little more well behaved than SU print. Also, you might want to change the background from green to white to save toner/ink (windows/styles/edit).

Finally, a lil legalese: Copyright (c) 2015 PL Barrett, all rights reserved. Free to distribute for non-commercial use. Attribute all derivations to me. Thanks!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

BOjr said:


> Very nice Phill . I have several benches out in the woods on my property. I keep the finish real simple and apply it about every other year: 50% Turpintine and 50% Linseed Oil. I stay away from anything that leaves a coat like poly. I've found that at my elevation, about 8,000 ft , the ultraviolet is so so strong that anything like poly breaks down in a year or so and then you end up having to sand it all before applying a new coat.
> 
> Buck


Thanks, Buck. That makes a lot of sense. I assume you mean boiled linseed oil. Can't get much simpler than that. I bet cedar will soak it up like a sponge.


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## Red Stick (Sep 7, 2011)

I make cedar outdoor furniture (Eureka system). The legs will soak up water, if so exposed. I would at least round over or chamfer the bottom ends, but epoxy is also great.

So far as finishing, I use Ready Seal. Very easy to apply ... cloth, brush or spray. No runs, it will all be soaked in. Renewal depends on exposure. Has ultraviolet protection. Western Red Cedar will naturally age to a silvery gray; some people like that look, I don't.

BTW, very nice looking bench!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I like it, Phil.

The Japanese influence just hi-lights the bench.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

BOjr said:


> ......I keep the finish real simple and apply it about every other year: 50% Turpintine and 50% Linseed Oil. I stay away from anything that leaves a coat like poly. I've found that at my elevation, about 8,000 ft , the ultraviolet is so so strong that anything like poly breaks down in a year or so.....


Whew, wish I'd known this 12 months ago. I have that problem. So now it's sanding time AGAIN!!! At least this time I know what to use. Thanks for that @Buck

Is is painted on or rubbed on?


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

This does not look like very good work to me. It looks like a great job. I thought at first glance this was a church Pew. You do good work. I am amazed at the amount of talent thAt continues to show up on this forum. Well done.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

The only things that seem to be effective with Cedar, long term, are oils that soak in. Surface coatings just don't last.
I may have mentioned this in the past, but our local Parks maintenance guys have been trying everything they can get their hands on looking for the magic bullet. No joy, in-spite of all the hype from the coatings manufacturers.
On the Coast, boiled linseed oil just grows mould in the Winter...turns black. 
This all went sideways when they forced them to stop using hydrocarbons (petroleum based solvents).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

BLO turns black...
many around here use teak oil w/ reasonable results...


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Very nice looking bench. No recommendations on finish, although I've read recommendations that cedar be left unfinished and left to weather naturally - not sure about Seattle though.


Sure is a great looking Bench. Would go well with my Planter/Trellis. That has been outside unfinished for over a year, and is aging gracefully toward the gray look. I live in Gig Harbor.

Have not tried it on Cedar, but Silkins makes great finishes which I used on my Boat's Teak and lasted much longer that the Marine Varnishes.

Bob


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

This NEW - Exterior UV Danish Oil | danish-oil.comdanish-oil.com sounded good until I got to the bottom of the page and it started talking about recoating twice a year.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

My personal recommendation would be for a marine grade 2 part varnish...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

old coasty said:


> Sure is a great looking Bench. Would go well with my Planter/Trellis. That has been outside unfinished for over a year, and is aging gracefully toward the gray look. I live in Gig Harbor.
> 
> Have not tried it on Cedar, but Silkins makes great finishes which I used on my Boat's Teak and lasted much longer that the Marine Varnishes.
> 
> Bob


Yeah, I've used silkins in the past and am considering their clear. Pricey stuff. The most difficult part is that there really doesn't seem to be a perfect finish.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

jw2170 said:


> My personal recommendation would be for a marine grade 2 part varnish...


Thanks, the problem with any filming finish is that it will eventually degrade and require stripping. I'm probably going to go with an oil that I can just slap another coat on as it needs it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good choice, Phil! Now to find one that doesn't go black with mould (mold) ...
Or come off on your clothes.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

The Silkins semi gloss lasted 3 years before needing a light sanding and a new coat in a saltwater environment on our boat.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Reminds me of my conversation with the folks at my General Paint outlet (Vancouver, BC). I'd bought and used their exterior solid colour stain, and used it to paint all my deck railings...seemed legit>
A year and a bit later the coating was coming off the top cap of the railing.
I complained to the company and was told that it wasn't intended for horizontal surfaces... 
OK, decks not the intended purpose I understand, but exterior railings?! What would have been the point of bringing that product to market; a major pr disaster waiting to happen.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

old coasty said:


> The Silkins semi gloss lasted 3 years before needing a light sanding and a new coat in a saltwater environment on our boat.


careful, you might just be convincing me!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Silkins is some good stuff...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Reminds me of my conversation with the folks at my General Paint outlet (Vancouver, BC). I'd bought and used their exterior solid colour stain, and used it to paint all my deck railings...seemed legit>
> A year and a bit later the coating was coming off the top cap of the railing.
> I complained to the company and was told that it wasn't intended for horizontal surfaces...
> OK, decks not the intended purpose I understand, but exterior railings?! What would have been the point of bringing that product to market; a major pr disaster waiting to happen.


Yeah, I hear you Dan. It could just be a case of not having the right primer, though. In general, it's going to a challenge. My railings have a semi-solid on it and we are in the process of repainting them. The parts that are fully exposed to the hot afternoon sun were pretty bad. Thank god my wife LIKES to sand. She's a keeper!

By the way, when I bought my house 4 years ago, the deck planks (1200 square feet) were painted with a semi solid stain. Who in their right mind would do that? The deck looked horrible (you can see where people walk) and the boards were so close together that debris from our big black pine just collected in the cracks (rot magnet). I drove a very hard bargain because of that (and several other issues). Replaced all the decking this spring - wider spacing and no stain. I'm happy to report that the pine debris falls through for the most part. yay! We will oil it at some point.


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## osioradain (Feb 16, 2010)

Very nice..well done..tried one a few years ago..never finished it unfortunately..


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## prbailey (Jun 2, 2012)

*Finish*

For the last 20 years or so my wife and I (well, mostly my wife :wink use Varathane on the furniture and cabinets I build - it wears like iron. They have an exterior product as well - Spar Urethane.


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## woodfan (Sep 26, 2011)

Beautiful!
I've been planning a similar bench in my nighttime wakeful hours for some time now.
I have a suggestion for the finish. I planed down some old cedar fence boards in 2012 to make a new gate and a bit of fence around it, and researched a finish that wouldn't peel and wouldn't need to be constantly renewed as some oil finishes do. I finished it with Sikkens SRD 250. It soaks in like an oil finish but I think it's much more durable. It did make the color more golden, even though I used "natural", but almost anything will do that. I'm very happy with it. I haven't had to do a thing since, though I expect I might have to slop on some more someday. Water still beads up on it in the rain.
Also, I was worried about the slot in the bottom rail for those panels and the slot that hoilds the iron work, that they might collect water, so I really soaked them with the finish. so far no problem.

I'm attaching a couple photos, the first one is when I finished it 3 years ago and what it looks like now. Just the same, maybe a little faded and dustier. (The frame is redwood, posts are treated wood)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

It mellowed very nicely, Judy. In Winter that original bright Orange might get on your nerves a wee bit, but that aged colour is beautiful.
Welcome, by the way!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Sweet, Judy! I think Silkens is in my future. Did you wait for the new surface to weather at all before treating it?


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## woodfan (Sep 26, 2011)

No, I put it on before I hung the gate in fact. (I forgot to qualify the glowing report by mentioning the gate is in the shade quite alot. The can claims it's UV resistant though. )


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Silkins will mirror the finish color of the wood. Once the aging occurs, the finish will show different shades etc.. Learned that the hard way on the boat teak. Had to take it off and sand it down to an even color. That's why I was so happy when SWMBO said she wanted it natural and age to gray.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not to be pedantic, but its SIKKENS, if we're all talking about the same company(?)

Wood Stain Finishes | Sikkens® ProLuxe Canada


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

we are...
took you long enough to work out the typonese...

see @Cricket for remedial training/classes/work shops....
and don't foget to thourghly clean th erases after you wah the black boards...


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## Admin (Feb 13, 2012)

Ha! I am the master of typonese!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Blackboards should never be washed. The water combines with the glue in the chalk and can leave a glaze on the surface. The school janitor told us that.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Blackboards should never be washed. The water combines with the glue in the chalk and can leave a glaze on the surface. The school janitor told us that.


the teach will be by w/ a wooden ruler w/a brass edge here shortly...


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Not to be pedantic, but its SIKKENS, if we're all talking about the same company(?)
> 
> Wood Stain Finishes | Sikkens® ProLuxe Canada


My Bad. Sometimes the brain and the fingers don't work together, and sometimes the brain doesn't remember well. Second sign of old age.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> the teach will be by w/ a wooden ruler w/a brass edge here shortly...


My teacher used a yardstick.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Second sign of old age.
What's the first...I don't remember?


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Second sign of old age.
> What's the first...I don't remember?


Me either.


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