# help me set small shop, tools, layout ect...



## Mimielam (Mar 5, 2009)

Hi,

Now that I went out and bought more tools....I really want to set up a space to use them. I also really want to know the basic things I should buy to be able to do a project without having to run to the store everyday.

So heres where I want to set up: back yard 5 sided small shed, no isolation, heat or electricity.(extension cord from back yard) temperature in quebec is freezing in the winter...so I guess if I want to store my tools and be able to walk in and enjoy woodworking. (this is for a hobby)

I want to insulate for heat and sound, will have an electrician install a basebord, thermostat, outlets and light.

Here goes my questions with a low budget in mind:

how do I insulate
how to prevent tools from rusting
at what temperature should I keep the shed at so that the tools are ok
what other tools should I consider getting 
how should I layout.

here are some of the tools I have:
Saws: benctop portable ridgid, circular, multicutting tool, mitter and various hand saws oh and also a demolition saw
Router: ryobi intermediate table, millwaukee plunge and fix router base combo.
Dremils
Drills electric and batterie
have a portable workbench, a saw horse, just got a mastercraft shop vac
a few clamps and 3 tool boxes filled with all kind of stuff.

theres a big strudy wooden shelf in the shed that I could adatp to make a workbench and there are shelve. the structure to work and store stuff would be in a L shape. ( my pool stuff is also in there).

so I'll be emptying the shed and changing the floor cause it is rotting.

thanks for ideas and advice.

p.s in the winter my guess is that I would keep the heat the the least advisable so that the tools are ok and use a heat lamp when working in there

p.p.s I'm also registring for woodworking classes starting next semptember.

Mimie


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Michelle,

first i would make sure you get the roof in good shape , no leaks replace the floor, make sure walls are not going to let water in. then get your electrical done. , then insulate. if it is a stud structure, you can buy rolls cut ot 8 ft lengths , you may have to recut them. you might go to somewhere like diy online and look up insulating.

take it step by step. worry about the tools and layout after you get it tool worthy.

p.s. after rereading your post, i see that you said pool stuff is in there. if that means chemicals, i would try to store them elsewhere. some are corrosive. thats just my opinion, others may differ.


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## opelblues (Aug 22, 2008)

Hi Michelle,

i with Levon in regards to the roof and the walls, but one though a few week ago a mate of mine redid his shed IE electrical plumbing, down this end we dont have to worry about the cold, its the heat - well he hired a spray fomer from brisbane
It puts out a two pack foam that covers everything and i mean everything and go's rock hard in about 24 hr as i have found when he filled my boots. its r6 fire rated and it expands 1/10 we did the walls the roof and the floor, we are puting in a floating floor in two weeks time
I dont know if there is a product like this in you neck of the wood. its droped the heat in the shed so much that his wife wants the roof of the house done now.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi Michelle,

It's not clear from your post, but I'm assuming you plan to have the electrician run electrical circuits to the shed? I'd suggest having at least 3 separate circuits: one for lights, one for heat, and one (or more) for tools. You don't want a problem on the tool circuit turning off your lights, too, and running heating and tools on the same circuit isn't a good idea.

As to *layout*, consider the size of the pieces you typically work with, and allow sufficient space - both infeed and outfeed. You may need to put some machines on (lockable) casters to allow easy movement to get infeed and outfeed space.

Although having a nice sturdy workbench is nice, it also imposes restrictions within a limited space that may overshadow the utility. You might want to think in terms of a combination of fixed and fold-up work surfaces, so as to make the most of the space you have. 

As to *additional tools*, I'd suggest that you consider the following, more or less in this priority:

1. marking and measuring - one or more good quality squares, marking knife, etc. Pencil marking introduces errors, which can be additive. I like Japanese marking knives that are sharpened to a flat side, instead of being sharpened to the center of the blade, like utility knives. Greater precision in marking results in fewer problems downstream.

1.1. at least a small set of bench chisels, along with sharpening stones, Sharpening is an area that can become obsessive, both as to types of stones and methods. You'll want at least 3 grits: medium, fine, and ultra fine for chisels and plane irons (blades).

1.2 Clamps - a person can never have too many - C clamps in various sizes, bar clamps, miter clamps (at least 4), etc.

2. at least one hand plane, a #4 smoother, or that and a block plane. With the #4, you can build and use a "shooting board" to fine tune cuts made at the table saw for greater precision. You can add more as the need arises.

3. a decent-quality benchtop drill press with a 1/2" chuck. Being able to drill holes that are exactly square is a real plus.

4. a benchtop scroll saw for cutting curves in small stock, doing fret work, and that sort of thing. Not to be confused with a bandsaw which would be used for cutting larger curves in larger stock, and various other operations. Which to consider buying first depends on what sort of projects you'll be doing. 

5. "Other" - there's obviously a myriad of other tools. Buy what you need as you go along.

*Rust prevention*. Some tools lend themselves to a thin coat of oil, with others a thin coating of paste wax is a better strategy. Having storage that isn't directly open to the air - drawers, cabinets, etc., is also helpful.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I have read all the posts, and it is sound information from all. Just to expound on a couple of the items: At least 2 circuits for tools and dust abatement,l (use a shop vac at first). Make circuits at 20 amp GFCI protected, lighting can be 15 amp. If you are going to have table saw etc out there make sure when the weather starts to get warm you do not have cold tool that moisture will condense on, bad rust problem. As far as tools, get them as you can afford them. Nothing worse then a shop full of tools and lost interest. Go to Craig's list in your area, E-Bay, pawn shops etc. you can sometimes get real good deals, if your not sure take a friend that knows what to look for.

Keep checking with what your doing with the people here and have fun. I am in the process of moving my shop from the garage to basement, (see in "show and tell") at http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/12030-moving-shop-garage-basement.html


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Run a 60-100 amp 220 volt service to the shed. From that box you can wire in the lights, tools, heat, etc. Let the electrician decide what amperage to run.

In January, when it was so damn blasted cold this year, my garage never got lower than 28 ºF. 2 electric heaters got it up to 50º in a couple hours. Since you are using electric baseboards you shouldn't have problems with moisture. That comes around with open flame heat. (Kerosene, propane, etc.)


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Michelle
I agree with the members get the stucture sound and insolated. Make sure you wire it for 220. I would suggest that you get a ceiling heater, CTC sells one for about $300 I use one of these as a back up heater, I heat primarily with wood. My garage/shop is about 700 sq ft. and this will keep it warm enough except in the exteme cold. (-20-40) Your shop sounds smaller so it will probably keep up. 
I do not know where in Quebec you are but I have never had an issue with rusting tools.
Many of the members from the south do not realize that even though we get extreme cold and lots of snow we have almost no humidity its almost desert like in the winter. I suspect that is why heating and cooling, rusting tools seems to be a none issue.
I would be very careful on the placement of tools and would put everything I could on wheels. Small shops are a challenge, think of it like buying furniture make sure stuff fits before you buy it.
Good Luck
Wayne


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*small shed?*

Hi Michelle,

I could not find in your post how small your shed is....

Mine is 10' x 10' and also houses all my garden tools. no power, no heat no lighting, dirt floor..........

I have a router table, bench top table saw, chop saw, planner, drill press, bench top band saw. etc etc etc.....

Luckily, in Sydney, we don't have to contend with the cold 

enjoy your experience

James


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Going back to your questions, buy an assortment of screws. #6 & #8 are common. For smaller hinges and such, #4s are used. 

Multi-tool flip-top stands save space. I made one for my planer that I may also mount the spindle sander to. Flip the top, and another tool is available.
http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/12219-thickness-planer-stand.html

Clamps. A few aren't enough. In fact, you never have enough.

You'll always be making a trip to the store, but as you get more equipment over time, those trips will be more for materials than tools.

Enjoy


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Don't forget a good size entry door with a good ramp (no steps)

Nicolas


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

kolias said:


> Don't forget a good size entry door with a good ramp (no steps)
> 
> Nicolas


Yes. The wheel, and a correspondingly appropriate surface, is the woodworker's friend.


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## Mimielam (Mar 5, 2009)

Hi everyone,

Thank you very much for all the repplies. After reading all the replies and going to a few hardware stores I'm still debating about what to do. I'm still trying to figure out what would be my best solution for setting up a small shop without spending a fortune.

My first concern is setting up so that my tools don't rust away. I went around gathering price info for matérials...oufffff....at one hardware store they made me an estimate only to isolate....comes out to about five hundrend ( that includes a few panels just to open up the floor in order to isolate the floor and closing it up again. I also spoke to an electrician...he said it would take 5 hours plus about 300 in matérial to set up a 60 amp sub panel.

As for extra tools and stuff to buy, well each week I look at sales in flyers and get an extra piece. I got myself a roller support a few clamps and a sqare ruler. 

I also lookes at my electrical panel to find out I have a 15 amp breaker that as nothing on it. 

Yesterday we had good weather so I took out my router table and roller stand and used them. I'm getting better and understand more how to use them. I took off the legs from the table and cut open the front of a milk crate. I fastened the table top onto the milk crate and then set it on a table saw stand. the hight is good and I can easely access the router to change the bits. I really like my router. I spend all afternoon using it. 

Getting back to the shed. I really think that with 2 times 15 amp breakers that this is enough...but I may be wrong cause I think I need to heat to maintain a minimum temperature so that the tools don't rust. Again the size of the shed is 10 by 10 (a little less cause it is 5 sidded) I'm allowed to enlarge it to 20 sqare meters. 

I think I better take out my camera and take pictures and post them so that you get a good idea. The only problem with that is that when I have time for that I usually take the time to work on my project. 

anyways again thank you everyone and I'll keep you posted
Mimie


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

You don’t say the walls / floor construction of your shed but it’s easy to insulate it yourself and save a few hundred $.

Regarding the power you don’t have to go all the way but you need at least one 15 amp circuit (lights & tools) and another 20 amp (heating) both 110V. Again it all depends on what your needs are and your budget. The best will be to bring in a 220V panel and then branch off for the sub circuits. In my shed, I dug a 6” deep trench, installed 1” plastic conduit and inside I run 14-2 cable. That is enough for me to have lights and run some hand tools + in the winder I have a 1000W portable heater. Now this does not provide tons of heat when outside is -40 but it’s just enough for my needs. 

It will take time to build up the tools you need. Take it as it comes

Nicolas


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mimie, For the time being concentrate on storing your tools so they are easy to access. Give each tool a home and always return it to this spot. Many tools have stands that waste space. Replace the stand with a cabinet you build for more storage. Think about the process of building your project and arrange your tools in this order. First you will saw the parts, then drill or rout them. Next will be sanding followed by glue up. Finishing is last. This way you start on the left side and work your way around the shop to complete a project. Store the tools and supplies in the area they will be used in. This "Flow" method is a great way to place your tools where you need them. Dust collection is important for health and safety reasons. In a small shop a shop vac can be moved from station to station. Now you have some new ideas to work with.


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

I also have a small shop with no heat or electricity.. The shop is 10'x23' (one car garage)
it has no insulation the walls are 3/8s plywood. so its cold in the winter I was given a good working wood stove recently so this winter Ill be toasty. but as far as electricity I have a out side plug on a 30 amp breaker and am running a very thick extension cord to the shop. I then wired the shop for lights and outlets I have 3 outlets on each side of the shop and two sets of lights, one fluorescent 4 bulbs at 4' long and a track light with 3 lights. In the shop I have a delta hybrid table saw a miter saw scroll saw router table a portable planer drill press 14" band saw a floor standing jointer, and lots of sanding stuff and hand tools in a rollaway toolbox, I have a workbench that was wired for plug ends on the legs for sanders and such,I know that its a lot on one circuit but if you think about it you can only use one tool at a time. I have never blown a breaker or gotten the extension cord warm it is now in a PVC pipe to prevent weathering, as far as rusting tools I coat mine with some paste wax and if Im not going to use them for a long time its WD 40 on them no rust.


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## LoneStarGuitar (Feb 15, 2009)

drasbell said:


> I also have a small shop with no heat or electricity.. The shop is 10'x23' (one car garage)
> it has no insulation the walls are 3/8s plywood. so its cold in the winter I was given a good working wood stove recently so this winter Ill be toasty. but as far as electricity I have a out side plug on a 30 amp breaker and am running a very thick extension cord to the shop. I then wired the shop for lights and outlets I have 3 outlets on each side of the shop and two sets of lights, one fluorescent 4 bulbs at 4' long and a track light with 3 lights. .


Are you sure you are not set up in my shop?!
I have a 18x22 storage building the previous owner of my house erected. 
Currently I have an electrical cord ran from a GFI plug just outside my back door to the shed and it is supplying three 4' T-8 fluorescent fixtures. 
OSB walls with hardie plank siding. 2x4 construction. 

I am currently spec-ing out the electrical panel for the shop and tomorrow with the assistance of my Dad, am pre-wiring the sucker for power. 1-50A 220v circuit for the upcoming tablesaw, soon-to-be bandsaw, and my air compressor, plasma torch, and wire welder (have to pick those three up from my Dad's shop  ,) plus a single 15A 110 for lighting, and 2-30A 110 for everything else. 


At any rate, to the OP, concerning insulation, if you can install R-19 batt, plus a wallboard such as Homasote, you will be significantly more comfortable. The homasote is rather mildew resistant, and does assist with sound transmission, should that be an issue with your location.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

One 15 amp circuit for tools is not enough. I blew a circuit breaker rated at 15 amp the first time I tried to use my brand new 7 in circular saw, rated for 15 amp. I had used my router, also 15 amp, many times on that same circuit without blowing that circuit. I would go along with the recommendation for two 20 amp circuits.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

In my basement shop that I am building, I have 3 15 amp circuits for lighting and I think 5 20 amp for tools. I have been accused from time to time of overkill, but I just like a circuit to handle the need. The problem with extension cord, is it puts a strain on the motor at the end. Sometimes there will be a warning not to use a cord of less the #12 wire and not exceed a given length. My house is wired 200 amp service so I can add another panel, there are restrictions on adding another panel down line from the main panel so as not to burn the house down and I can go into that if someone wanted to know, Just be careful of overloading a wire, the breaker no problem it will trip but # 14 wire in a 20 amp breaker is not good. BTW when running too long an extension cord the cord may not heat up, but the motor will and there in lies the rub, when is the motor too hot and can we determine that by just touch?? For me I like overkill and to be safe with all concerned. Just a thought.


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

xplorx4 said:


> In my basement shop that I am building, I have 3 15 amp circuits for lighting and I think 5 20 amp for tools. I have been accused from time to time of overkill, but I just like a circuit to handle the need. The problem with extension cord, is it puts a strain on the motor at the end. Sometimes there will be a warning not to use a cord of less the #12 wire and not exceed a given length. My house is wired 200 amp service so I can add another panel, there are restrictions on adding another panel down line from the main panel so as not to burn the house down and I can go into that if someone wanted to know, Just be careful of overloading a wire, the breaker no problem it will trip but # 14 wire in a 20 amp breaker is not good. BTW when running too long an extension cord the cord may not heat up, but the motor will and there in lies the rub, when is the motor too hot and can we determine that by just touch?? For me I like overkill and to be safe with all concerned. Just a thought.


Nice point to bring up... thanks


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

You should insulate accordingly to YOUR region,, check with your local installers for correct R-value ratings. Electrical should be done by an electrician. I only use 15amp breakers for lights. Your tool may say 15amp but, not many realize, it draws a lot more than that at start up. I like to go with 20+ amp breakers. If I can get a tool converted over to 220v then I will. I'm like Jerry, I like to use heavier gauge wiring. Overload can be easily done without you knowing it until too late. IMHO, your TS should be your center workpiece along with a good worktable, assemble table. The rest can be set around the walls in work stations. Finding or creating your own multi-work stations would save you space and double their functionality. I do recommend getting yourself some furniture or flooring paste wax, (no silicone), or other tool protectant. I know I'll catch heck for this but, I don't recommend the use of WD-40 except only to lube trunnions, etc. There are products out there made for table top & or tool protection.


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## LoneStarGuitar (Feb 15, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> You should insulate accordingly to YOUR region,, check with your local installers for correct R-value ratings. Electrical should be done by an electrician. I only use 15amp breakers for lights. Your tool may say 15amp but, not many realize, it draws a lot more than that at start up. I like to go with 20+ amp breakers. If I can get a tool converted over to 220v then I will. I'm like Jerry, I like to use heavier gauge wiring. Overload can be easily done without you knowing it until too late. IMHO, your TS should be your center workpiece along with a good worktable, assemble table. The rest can be set around the walls in work stations. Finding or creating your own multi-work stations would save you space and double their functionality. I do recommend getting yourself some furniture or flooring paste wax, (no silicone), or other tool protectant. I know I'll catch heck for this but, I don't recommend the use of WD-40 except only to lube trunnions, etc. There are products out there made for table top & or tool protection.



one other idea, with respect to "workstations."
I know one of the woodworking magazines had a "build your shop" issue a while back, but one of the suggestions really stood out: 
If you think of it, many bench tools are of a similar footprint. These guys built up a tall standing cabinet that had the tools mounted to bases that could be removed from the rack and installed onto a mobile work cabinet. 8 square feet to hold 5 different bench tools, plus storage.. just an idea. I will find the article and link it later. Might help the OP out somewhat with space concerns.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

One hint:

Try to make everything the same height or as close to as possible. Most start with the table saw height, then match the counters and other things to that height.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi, Mimi. Here is a good place to do some research on equipping a small shop...

Fine Woodworking - Search: small shop

Do some searching around. There is tons of info on just about any question you may have.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Here's another place that can help you plan. I gotta thank George for sorta reminding me of it with his link. 

Grizzly.com® -- Workshop Planner


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## retailremedy123 (Jul 5, 2009)

We are there to help you in all aspects in store layout which serve all your needs and we satisfy our customers.


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