# advice please



## mtsaz100 (Jul 20, 2017)

HI- great forum, great posts. I have 2 router tables for my table saw. I have 3-4 old craftsman routers and a new plunge router I got for 14$ about a month ago at sears. It had no collets but I have them-in fact it was just the motor and mount- but for 14$ I didn't care. Somey years ago I got this craftsman aluminum table saw router table insert- 171253510. its holes are drilled for craftsman routers---but an adapter is made for others. Turns out the adapter is a piece flexible plastic- It has predrilled holes for the table- and you drill the holes for your router- then mount it. I didn't trust it being plastic so I made an adapter for my bosch 3/16 aluminum plate. It seems to make a decent table- but its only about 24" to fit many table saws, mine is 27" so I had to buy some aluminum square stock to fill in the edges. The photo (online) of this is--http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-number/171253510/0247/0744260.html and you can see the aluminum spacers on the edges. 

I bought a year or 2 ago- a rockler lift (it was on craiglist for 40$) and bench dog cast iron table saw insert. This thing weighs about 100lbs- its very heavy. The item # is 40-102 its expensive- but the rockler lift fits it perfectly. I currently have the sears mounted in my table saw.

My question is- what side of the table saw insert would the fence go? I put it on the outside- to the right of the bit- does it even matter? All the pics I see its on the left of the bit. 

I am thinking of buying a dedicated 3hp plus motor- to put in the rockler lift- and either making a dedicated router table- or exchanging it with sears in table saw.

What if any advantages are there for having the router table mounted in the table saw? Other than space saving in the shop, and maybe having additional space on the saw for large pieces- I can think of none. However with the bench dog the weight is a big advantage since it stablizes the saw. 

Also, is there any advantage to buying one of these big motors (3.25hp) over a bosch, makita or dewalt 2-2.5hp range? I did learn about buying cheap bits- now I only buy whiteside, cmt, amana, and others in that league. No more cheapies. Carbide isn't carbide- there is a difference. Thank you!


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the router forum.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Mtsaz; welcome!
Looking at the router in the table,_ from in front ie the infeed and outfeed are to the right and left of you_, the fence goes behind the bit. You feed stock from the right to left...because the router is upside down, making it the opposite to the normal left to right when the router is right side up.
You already know that you NEVER feed the stock between the bit and the fence(?). 
(Having said that, I recently was introduced to a jig for making very small mouldings * that _did_ feed between the bit and fence, but the amount of material being removed was extremely small and there were several safety innovations that prevented launching the material.)
Other than that I have nothing. 

_* it was a luthier doing the mouldings_


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

What Dan said about feed direction. The only advantage of having a router in a table saw wing is the space savings. Everything else is a disadvantage. If you try using the table saw fence you'll need to build up the face with enough material so that you only expose as much of the bit as you need to. Like Dan said about passing material between the fence and the bit- DON'T. Larger routers don't have to work as hard to get the same job done but 2 1/2 hp routers are large enough. You just have to feed a little slower and maybe takes off successive small bites to get to the finished profile.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Welcome aboard.

The Bosch 1617 and the DeWalt router motors are 3 1/2 inches in diameter. Check your lift before making a purchase. The Triton 3 1/4hp will mount directly to an insert plate...no lift needed because it has a built in mechanism and comes with a hand crank to raise and lower it. Change your bits from above the table with one wrench because the shaft locks in place when raised all the way up.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Welcome mtsaz. I'm also in the mts of AZ. I'm in Snowflake. Where is your shop. If we're close, I might be able to assist.


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

I don't believe the Rockler lift will work with 3-1/4 hp motors. If you didn't get a manual you can go to their web site and download it. 


In woodworking there is always more then one way to accomplish something.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

welcome n/a..
made in Canada JessEm makes several outstanding top of the line lifts and you will have a large selection of motors to choose from...
their CS/TS is better than outstanding...

Router Lifts and Plates...
HOME....


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Put me in the separate table crowd. I had a Rockler lift and it worked OK for a 2.25hp Bosch 1617. I don't see how you'll get a 3hp unit in it. I switched to the Triton TR001 for the table and prefer it to the Bosch in the table. Less costly by far than a separate lift then router. I like the Bosch 1617 really well for hand held and template use. Hope that's useful.


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## spydrxx (Jul 7, 2017)

It really doesn't matter which side of the saw you place the router table/insert on. 
it is a matter of convenience depending on whether you want to feed the router from the side/front or side/rear of the saw. I placed my setup (I used a Jointech fence) to the right side of the saw, as my saw accessory wings were slight;y longer on the right side than the left...so I built it out even further as a router table attached to the iron wing.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mounting your router in a saw table is one solution that works in limited space. Most people are more comfortable with a router table that is higher than a table saw; 3-5" below your elbow is the best fit for most people.

In the 3 hp field you have another option to consider: the Portamate router. The Portamate is virtually the same as a PC 7518 and in fact you can swap collet/nut assemblies between them. You can save a fair amount of your hard earned money versus the 7518.

I do not like router lifts for a couple of reasons: they do not improve your accuracy and it is faster to pop the router out of the table for bit changes. On behalf of the many forums members who prefer working with a lift I researched every brand I could find. My conclusion was that the features on the Excalibur lift were the best option available. I liked the fact that this lift worked with both 3-1/2 and 4" router motors by selecting the shim to fit your model. In the end the only way to be sure about a tool is to get one in your hands and work with it. General International was kind enough to loan me an Excalibur lift and their deluxe cast iron router table. Set up was very easy and the lift worked as it should. I used this combination for a month and have nothing negative to report on it.

I was very happy when the rep came and picked it up... as I said this is not my preferred way of routing and having a 5th router table in my small garage shop was very cramped. I think both of these products are worth your consideration.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@Mike - Good info. Thanks for sharing.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I ordered my Grizzly cabinet saw with the router table. It mounts on the right side of the blade. The motor housing prevents it from being mounted on the left side, which would have been perfect for my set up.

and wouldn't you know it, almost every time I needed to use the saw, the router and/or fence was in the way. I have since moved on to other remedies.


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## mtsaz100 (Jul 20, 2017)

Wow thanks to all of you for the great information. Yes- I am very much aware of the work between the bit and fence- I always move the fence to the bit and try to get the bit in the little crack in the fence--so that only what I need is sticking out--and I can use the fence vs freehanding it. I am thinking about building a router table- or just buying a kreg one (legs) and putting my bench dog on top of it. I too have limited space---by the time you get a drill press, disk sander on small table, grinder on little rolling stand, thickness planer on my tool chest, table saw, and then a router table---it does get tight. That is why I was thinking I could use the table saw. I am thinking of using this craftsman thing and ---I have it just in the bosch holder- and if and when I decide I need more- I can use the lift and bench dog either on table saw or as I say- a separate setup. Even as cheesy as it is- being 24" wide and requiring 1.5" square stock on each side- and the holes are all predrilled and don't line up with anything- so I had to make an adapter to match the holes, and then make holes in the adapter for the router----it seems pretty decent. The one nice thing that rockler lift has is a pin. I suppose I could rig one- drill and tap a hole and screw it in. Here are a couple pics of the craftsman thing. disregard the 2x4- its related to nothing. Ironically its a craftsman saw with delta fence/rails and incra miter gauge- but the stuff that came with this saw was atrocious. Incredibly bad. I appreciate your suggestions and help. Let me ask about the porta mate? Isn't that the same as the MLCS? Not that I care- but I would buy the cheapest one. I do notice you NEVER EVER see these big routers used. I guess when someone gets one- they hold on to it which is a very powerful statement. thanks so much!


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## mtsaz100 (Jul 20, 2017)

Terry Q is right- my router lift is the rockler FX- and only supports- Bosch 1616
Bosch 1617
DeWalt 610
DeWalt 616
DeWalt 618
Bosch 1618
Porter-Cable 690 series
Porter-Cable 890 Series
Although I am certain it would take a craftsman or any number of different oddball routers- hitachi, etc. HOWEVER- it wont take a beast sized one so I 'm really glad I didn't buy one. I will play with my craftsman setup and decide what i want to do (if the bosch is powerful enough for what I do). I can always sell the rockler lift. its new and I'm sure it would sell quickly if I wanted to unload it. thanks again to everyone for all the help, and to terry Q for pointing out the issue with this lift.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Mike said:


> ...................Most people are more comfortable with a router table that is higher than a table saw; 3-5" below your elbow is the best fit for most people................


Eh? Is this right? My S/O is 6'3", if I went with 5" below his elbow, I'd be looking at 43". That seems rather high or am I wrong? Any guys with router tables on the higher end of height care to comment?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

MT; yup, on the big routers. Thing is, they aren't inexpensive and once you've invested in one, letting it go is like losing a loved one.
I hardly use my Bosch 1619EVS anymore as it aggravates my rotator cuff injury, lifting it down from the shelf, or using it vertically...I still don't have a router table and in any case, it's a plunge router (although it has a clever plunge lockout arrangement).
So, yeh, no, it's not for sale.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

vindaloo said:


> Eh? Is this right? My S/O is 6'3", if I went with 5" below his elbow, I'd be looking at 43". That seems rather high or am I wrong? Any guys with router tables on the higher end of height care to comment?


I'm 6' 2" and 43 doesn't sound that bad. My cabinet /table I made the same height as my TS (just in case even though I find just in case rarely seems to happen). But I also have a Lee Valley steel table top I have set up as a benchtop unit. That might put it closer to 48 and I like using it for doing small parts. The cabinet model is better for bigger work that would be awkward to handle at the bench top level. I would have to say that there is no definitive answer on that.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I am 6'4" Angie and my table is too high for most people to work with. This is not a problem when members visit my shop because I have other tables to set up for their requirements.

James from Australia is wearing the green shirt and standing in front of me in the first photo. The second photo was a gag with an empty can over Moderator Brian's head.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Thanks guys, it just seemed a little on the high side.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I am 5'10. When I built my table, I made it so the max height is about 39 inches. It is a lot more comfortable for me to route at some height near that. Remember, my table has adjustable height so I can raise or lower as needed. :surprise::grin:

Down low, my back starts to ache after a while. No problem when routing only a few pieces, but longer operations causes back pain. Just getting old, I guess. :frown:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; Maybe it's that honkin' big telephoto lens hanging around your neck?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Mike Looks like a good time was had by all.


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## mtsaz100 (Jul 20, 2017)

I finally gave up and used the stuff I had -I was trying to make this round peg fit a square hole, ie this sears aluminum router table top (for table saws) that is 24" wide, fit my 27" table saw but putting aluminum square tube 1.5" on each side. I spent so much time and because of the chintzy (sears) way they designed this thing, it really would never stay level. I had the bench dog cast iron- and I kept thinking I had to attach it to the rails---which is easy if you use delta rails- but I had upgraded to vega which attach in 2 places to the table saw, and then have some little steel plates on the rails to mount extension tables, but they are not really designed to support anything like the delta rails do.

Having said that, I read the instructions again. It said "you don't need to mount this (bench dog cast iron top) to the side rails", and then it said to make sure you had at least grade 5 bolts to mount it to the cast iron part of table saw. So I put it on the left side, even though it said it probably wouldn't fit because motor sticks out a little bit (the side of the table saw swells a bit on left side for motor) but it fits just fine. so on the left side now, I have this awesome bench dog and a rockler lift. I got the rockler xt or xl or (XS--extra small) because it only allows for 3.5" routers. so i have a bosch 2.25Hp router. I was thinking of putting a leg under it--I just get nervous leaning on it---its held on there by 3 bolts---no more.

Anyway have any thoughts about that? assuming this makes sense. Also---this should probably go in another discussion but how do you keep the dust out of the router motor. If I hook dust hose to fence---it does good job of keeping it away from the work/bit- but what to do about that dust that gets below---and then covers the floor. Has anyone tried the milescraft setup? I bought one from amazon but might send it back. It seems incredibly cheap---great idea- but incredibly cheap. Looks are deceiving sometimes but this thing does not inspire confidence. Thanks to everyone who has helped me- thank you.


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