# Is there such a thing as a double-dovetail bit?



## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

I watched the Router Workshop on the woodworking channel where Bob and Rick built a jewelry/lingerie chest with a mirror on top of the dresser and the frame around the mirror had a dovetail in each mitered edge and were joined together by a butterfly pin. I thought for sure I saw a double-dovetail bit being used. If so, where would you buy one? Thanks!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy 
I think this is what you are looking for ▼

14° Butterfly Spline Router Bits

http://www.toolstoday.com/displaytools.asp?num=0&pdescription=14&#176;+Butterfly+Spline+Router+Bits


Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Thank you, Bj for that quick answer! Now, I have another question. Is there a way around spending $52.00 + for the butterfly spline router bit, like maybe using sliding dovetails? Just wondering, or should I say hoping........
Thanks again,
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy
Dovetail bit no I don't think so, because of the 14 deg. on the dovetail bit for just one of the errors you will run in to, but you can try and beat the price by using a table jig saw and try and cut one out to fit the dovetail slots it may take a time or two to get it right.

But you only need to make 4 of them.

Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Thank you once more. That is a great idea, I'm sure I will at least try to do it your way before spending 52 for a single bit.
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome Sandy

Good Luck

Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy

Just in case you don't get it done with the jig saw here are some links that are a bit lower in price.

Butterfly Spline Bits
$29.99 ▼ the lowest price one I found was this one. ▼
http://www.pricecutter.com/product.asp?pn=P19-4016&bhcd2=1146540114

https://secure9.nexternal.com/share...922996163&ProductID=47426&Target=products.asp

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004T7ER/103-4660275-1603017?v=glance&n=228013


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

I have not seen the show but if I understand what this looks like why not make a "butterfly" or "bow tie" pattern and then do an inlay across the miter joint?

Ed


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ed
It could be a bit tricky in 3/4" x 1 1/4" stock.
You know Bob & Rick when they get tricky with the router they really tricky.
It's a neat show how to build a lingerie chest with a mirror, I think it ran on the 
http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/ last week or so.
Or on the PBS ....
It's just a neat way to hook up a 45 miter joint on the mirror frame.
Locks the miter right up. 

Bj


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi,

Just looked at my list of show and it must be the 601-604 ones. The first ones I have seen are the 1000 series. 

I watch one show on the wwchannel but even with dsl it was very hard to watch too much drop outs in video and audio.... I wish it could just be downloaded and watch, the streaming is just not cutting it for me.

Anyway back to the joint, if the stock is 1-1/4 wide that is enough to work on but you only go a 1/4" deep. Did they use a contrasting wood in the joint? If not I think that would look good.

Ed


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ed
They used Oak and Walnut,looks great.
"too much drop outs" same on this end some times, you can try this trick.
I stop it and then hit the play, it will relogon and pick it up and play.
I also use DSL at 640 not the best but it works.
I view it on my Laptop wireless most of the time but the desktop works great most of the time.
The Laptop is always on Signal Strength Low ( 2 Bars) but it works.

Bj


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## CliffR (May 3, 2006)

Why not simply rip the spline on the TS ?? 
Set the blade off at an angle and cut. 
Flip the piece and cut then move the fence to the other side of the piece and cut.
Take progressive cuts to get your spline a perfect fit.

Cut the Miter Dovetails with a little sled on the router table . the sled would hold the mitered corners pointy edge down at a 45-Deg angle as they go across the DT bit.

I'd nopt buy that $50.00 Spline bit unless I was planing a whole load of those DT mitered corners. If you are you might want to consider the DT bit from the same manufacturer as they are supposed to complement each other. Yes I'd guess that any DT bit of the same geometry/size just fine but, why pack a bag lunch when you are already paying for the boat ride.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

CliffR

That would work but it would be tricky at best.
Making 4 ,14deg or 12deg. cuts on the table saw to made a spline insert.
And have them all the same and true on a rip cut,tricky 

They would need to be with in *.001 * to fit the dovetail pocket.
My table saw will cut true but I don't think I could do it but I would like someone try it and post a snapshot after they make one or two .

Rick and Bob made a jig to put in the dovetails slots, that's quick and easy one to make, but the spline is the tricky part ,it's like a inlay spline dead on.
Your eyes will go right to the spline when you look at the mirror frame.

Have a good one 
Bj


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The easy method for making these cuts consistantly is to build a key miter jig. The one in this PDF is set up for a table saw but it would be virtually identical to one for a router table. For decoration and strength you would use a dovetail bit instead of the saw blade. The key splines would have to be hand trimmed to match the bevel of your dovetail bit.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike
Thanks
This would work if the slot was running with the grain but this is running across the grain, it's bow-tie key spline ,14deg. on both ends of the bow-tie.
To put in the dovetail slot. ▼
The jig that Bob made was two boards (cut at 45) to hold the stock at a 45 deg. to the router table then put in as a center board (mirror frame) clamp and slot,all 3 parts at one time,need to push the jig 8 times to get all the dovetails in place.

Then hard part ,make a bow-tie spline to lock the (mirror frame) dovetails as one.

Bj


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ok BJ, I reread the question and the jig I showed is similar to what is needed. Only the front angle would be installed resulting in the required dovetail cut across the end grain. Making the bow-tie spline requires 4 passes of your stock against the dovetail bit.


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Sandy
> 
> Just in case you don't get it done with the jig saw here are some links that are a bit lower in price.
> 
> ...


 bj
I've been trying to invent a jig to make these butterfly spline without a bit and boy, it's been quite an adventure. I think $29.99 isn't so bad after all. I have one ready to cut into 4 pieces and try out on a frame I plan to make. Now, I have to figure out how to make that jig to hold each frame section at a 45 degree angle! Thanks for all the websites. If these butterflies don't fit, I'll be checking them out again. 
I think it's sort of funny though that this advertisement shows the butterfly spline with the grain going the wrong direction (the one for $29.99)
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Sandy
"wrong direction" = yep I saw that too, the guy that made the web page just didn't get it.
He must not be a wood worker, hahahaha. 
It's a hard one to make I'm sure without the right bit.
I know it's 30.oo bucks but you can use it over and over for many jobs ,like a box,cabinets,doors,etc. so it may pay just to get one.note the 14deg.dovetail bit.
When I make the hard ones I make plastic jar full of them and then I have them on hand when I need one or two.
Like this one ▼
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2172
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2173
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2168
http://www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?t=2458

Note***
"Now, I have to figure out how to make that jig to hold each frame section at a 45 degree angle! "
Go back into your mine and see the jig that Bob made,it works and it's quick and easy one to make. 
Two sticks the same size (wide) as the frame cut on a 45 deg. then clamp like a sandwich and use a push block to move it over the dovetail bit,8 times.
Now do you see it in your mine ?


Good Luck
Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

I see what you are saying but take a hard look at the snapshot below.
Bow-Tie
Once you make the 1st pass your edge is gone and you have no chance of making a new pass that's true on the 2nd pass.
iA jig that holds the stock off the router table base may do it but it wll be tricky at best.
I guess I will try it just find out if I can get it done just for kicks.

Just for kicks you try it also 

Have a good one
Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy
I just got a email from Router Forms (Oak-Park) dated 5-11-06

http://www.thewoodworkingchannel.com/

see snapshot below

Bj


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I think a sled is the answer to getting an accurate bow tie spline. When removing material you will still have the wood above your cut to align against the fence. Forgive the poor quality of my artwork, it was done with a card making program. One of these days I will get the rest of my software installed on this new computer! I look forward to seeing how Bob & Rick perform this task.


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

I don't really have the time to try this but it would seem to me that if you leave the ends and don't route them this should be easy to do (they will be square so they still have the same height and width you started with). You only need a couple of inches of the butterfly material so if you start cutting the dovetail 2" in and stop 2" short... flip end for end and do the otherside stopping at the same point.... turn it over and do the next pass and then one more time and you have the butterfly stock ready to be cut in to pieces.

If you don't like that then you can always make a tunnel for the parts like you do with moldings.... can't say I have see the router guys do this but Norm has... I've even used it a few time. Think of it as a "jointer" operation.

Ed


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Mike and Ed
I going to give this a shot today and see if I can get it done without making some firewood.
It looks like it will work, just need to find a way to hold it down,the bit should help because of the down cut ,maybe tape who knows on this one.
I like the hard ones and this is one of them.
I can sure see why Bob & Rick got the bit and used it...and it can be a bit ticky with a bit also got to be dead on..6 points (sides) to match up on, dead on....inlay bow-tie....hard one... 

Thanks again for the in put 


Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

*Bow tie (butterfly) spline jig photos*

I put a dovetail groove into the end of an oak board to use as a jig to hold the cut section of the spline so I could finish the other end. I used my Sears router table with the push shoe they sell that does sliding dovetails and the measurement is right on the end of the shoe. I am going to get the finished spline down to the perfect size and then use it as a measuring device for all my future splines to come out perfectly. (I hope)

I used a 1/4" straight bit to make about 1/8" incremental cuts until the groove was almost to the height of the dovetail bit and then cut it with the dovetail bit holding it firmly against the fence and table. (I won't say what happened the other night when I did all that work and then accidentally picked the wrong edge to push through, but I'm starting to get my hearing back now).

Thank you, Ed for the lessons on shrinking images.  

Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy
I like it when people think, you are on the right track with just a little tweaking you will have it, I'm sure..
That trick passed right by me and it will work.
Use the female to make the male, good one 
I guess that's the way it's always been, right hahahahaha

GOOD JOB 

The pictures are a bit big but they are fine.
You can download software from the Net like IrfanView it's free and it will let you resize the picture on the fly plus many other tools in the program and it's FREE.
Download from: http://www.irfanview.com 

I use and like Paint Shop Pro. it's not free but has many more tools with it than IrfanView also take a look a Paint.Net at ▼
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4548
It's free also and a great tool.

Have a good one
Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I should note***

I also use CaptureWiz Pro. alot it's also a great tool but it's not free but it works.
If you see it on the screen you can grab it, (Scroll and Capture a Full Page ) like Web Page(s),snapshots,etc. that you want to upload or print out and it will resize to the format or the default you want quick and easy with one click.

from** http://www.pixelmetrics.com/CapWizPro/index.htm

Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Thank you for all those websites, I downloaded the freebie so far (I've spent way too much on tools lately so that's why I have to save pennies on bits now, but someday when I get rich I will buy the double dovetail bit). I can't wait that long for the spline though as I just have to try it on my next frame. So, I sure hope I can get it perfected for that. If not, then, I'll make smaller frames with the scraps or there is always firewood! That Capture Wiz Pro sounds awesome, too. Someday........
Sandy


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Also, thanks for all the nice things you said.
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome Sandy

Have a good weekend  ♪♫ ♪ 

Bj


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Sandy
> I like it when people think, you are on the right track with just a little tweaking you will have it, I'm sure..
> That trick passed right by me and it will work.
> Use the female to make the male, good one
> ...


 You might want to take a look at this:
www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?t=1048
It is a little tutorial of how to shrink images using infanview that I wrote back in March of 2005 but still should work.

Ed


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Sandy
> "wrong direction" = yep I saw that too, the guy that made the web page just didn't get it.
> He must not be a wood worker, hahahaha.
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy

I just took a look at the snapshots you posted the grain is running in the right direction
just like it should be.
Look at the side of the stock not the end grain.
Once you glue it in place it will be right, b/4 you but it in place it will snap off in your hands if you want it to. (the male part )
You can't have both ways,it's a bow tie spline holding two boards together.
The two parts work as one joint, one pulling on the long grain (male)and the other pulling on the short grain.
The short grain is locked inside the 45deg. part and the long grain is holding the 45deg. tight.
Think of it as a staple running from one of the 45 to the other 45 and just like a strip of staples you can snap it off quick and easy but it is strong from point A to point B on the staple.


Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Ok, I guess I was really confused. See, I can't even be right about being wrong, haha!
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Sandy

Some times it's hard to see the forest because of all the trees in the way 


Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy 
You're going to make me bookmark this web page, right hahahahahaha
When I'm down and I want a to get up with a chuckle or two, I can come back and read the page again hahahahahahahahaha I like it hahahahahahaha, I'm not making fun of you it's just funny....hahahahahaha 

Have a good one bud 

Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Glad I could help you get a good laugh, after all it does the heart good like a good medicine.......

Was that have a good one, bud.........or
good one, have a bud..........hahaha!
by the way, I'm not a bud, I'm a female.
And what is a stable? is that a woodworking term I'm not aware of yet? Excuse my ignorance, please.
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Sandy

Stable =is a error I just fix,thanks hahahahahaha
I call just about every one Bud or Mate, they are most of the time.
Have a Bud ,on me bud 
I didn't know that you are a female and that's good to know I will watch it now.
I forget sometimes that females like wood working also...

Have a good one mate (bud) hahahahaha

Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sandy

You may get a kick out of this ▼

Definitions of mate

A companion. 
Mate appears as early as the 13th century, as a corruption of the Dutch word "mattenoot." Loosely translated it means companion, or the person with whom you shared your hammock (one being on duty while the other slept in it. 
Hot bunking is not new!). In some trades, like that of stevedores, the French word "matelot" is used in the same sense as the English word mate. 
That being the person with whom you lift sacks which are too heavy to be lifted by one man alone.
---------------------------------

Definitions of buddy/bud


A close friend who accompanies his buddies in their activities 

Have a good one bud 

Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

this is just a test, my internet keeps crashing, I'm gonna try one more time, I've written three replies to you (Bj) already, that didn't take, so I am just writing this to see if it's working temporarily (the technician comes back Friday)
Sandy


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

hey, it worked!
Well, then, I will try to remember what I wrote those three other times.
Bj,
Ohhhhhhh, I know what staples are, haha! I had this image in my head of stables and horses and couldn't picture what that had to do with a dovetail groove 
When I hear someone call someone mate, they usually have an accent and are on a ship with a captain. But that's ok, you can call me anything but bad names, haha!
Also, I would like to say I do love woodworking very much, I just need more wood!
I wanted to identify myself as female, esp. since you are always talking about female and male parts in relationship to joints, haha!
Well, I appreciate all your input to all the subjects in the forum, I try to read all of them. Thank you!
Sandy (this isn't exactly what I wrote before but I have to hurry while the internet is working. Every time I would try to submit it the connection cut out.)


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Sandy
I have a buddy and he is from London and cracks me up, I love to listen to him talk and I guess I got it from him ,right Mate.

"you are always talking about female and male parts in relationship to joints'
I'm sorry, but most get it when use that term(s)...I could use the charactres like
♂ and ♀ but most would not get it.


"subjects in the forum" no one can know it all..
I wish I new more so I could put in more, but I do try.

Computers Errors
Here's a link that will help ▼ with many of them.
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win2000
I'm on the win2k forum most of the time and go by the name of DEX
stop by and maybe I or some one can help with your computer errors.
The last time I checked I have posted/replyed 10,300 times.

Have a good one
Bj


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

Bj
Well, while my internet is working again (it crashed when I tried to play games after my last reply).......
I wrote down that addy for help. I think there is a short in the line or something tragic! lol
I'm sorry for implying you "always" talk about female and male parts, I meant to say only in my thread. And believe me, I wanted to explain it the way you did but was too shy, haha!
Ok, enough. Thanks for your reply. Did you bookmark this thread yet? haha!
Sandy


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Sandy

"Did you bookmark this thread yet?"
Yep, sure did 
http://www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?t=2649&page=4&pp=10

Bj 

Mark ***** chat room ***** ??


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## SandyT (Apr 28, 2006)

that's funny


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mark has been busy testing out a chat program I sent info on. It fell short of the requirements but keep your fingers crossed. The chat room is coming soon!


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