# Dado's Table saw or router?



## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

I'm going to be building a miter saw cabinet and I will be making numerous dado's and I 'm curious when to use a router and when to use the table saw. I have a dado set and an undersized whiteside 3/4 router bit.. Thanks


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

I would use the dado blade since you have one. It is cheaper to use it than to replace router bits. Plus it is sometime easier to get a good fit with todays plywood sizes. IMO


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

How long does it take to set up the Dado blades? Have you used the Dado set before?

Either one will work.......


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

I think it's going to come down to personal choice here... use what you are comfortable with. My personal choice would be the router as it leaves a flat bottomed dadoe. Maybe I've just had poor quality dadoe sets, but the ones I've used have not left a smooth flat bottom. You can purchase router bits that are undersized for todays plywood. But, as Clay suggested, the dadoe blades will stay sharp longer than the router bit will.


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

BrianS said:


> I think it's going to come down to personal choice here... use what you are comfortable with. My personal choice would be the router as it leaves a flat bottomed dadoe. Maybe I've just had poor quality dadoe sets, but the ones I've used have not left a smooth flat bottom. You can purchase router bits that are undersized for todays plywood. But, as Clay suggested, the dadoe blades will stay sharp longer than the router bit will.


Thanks. I haven't set up a dado on the T/S yet so I think I'm going to experiment with both and see where I end up.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

BobandRick, the Router Workshop guys, and the inspiration for the RouterForums some years ago did a comparison and came down on the side of the router. The link is Router Workshop: dado router vrs saw


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you are going to make a bunch of dadoes the same size then it is the dado stack. The good ones do leave flat bottoms. If yo only have a couple or so to do then the router is just as fast or faster. You can dial the width in perfectly with a router bit if you use one that is smaller than the dado you want to make and go with 2 passes. There have been a couple of jigs posted on the forum for that job. 

I don't know if you have a shim set for your dado but if you don't I would get one. It's the only way with stacked dadoes to dial in a perfect fit. Veritas® Dado Shims - Lee Valley Tools

I've also heard of plastic playing cards being used.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

There are actually _three_ choices to be made, Mike.
Doing it on the TS, doing it manually with the router, or doing it on a router table.
If I needed to do a rebate or a mortise on a _really_ big piece of lumber or a large sheet of plywood, I'd just lay it on sawhorses and do it with the router and an edge guide. Having said that, I really like using my dado set!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

fire65 said:


> I would use the dado blade since you have one. It is cheaper to use it than to replace router bits. Plus it is sometime easier to get a good fit with today's plywood sizes. IMO


Sorry, I was moved by your post and had to comment. I do a lot of dado (grooves) and spline work... ^^^The initial investment is not cheaper.

Someone that has practice with both- The differences between doing dado with a router or a saw is just... well, different.

If I'm doing one or two dado's, I pull out one of my dado jigs and use a router. I use a bit about 75% diameter of the finished size's groove width. You ask why? Because then I can make 2 passes, one each direction of travel, so I can get a snug fit on the groove for the spline joint. It takes less time to setup for a router cut groove than a TS, but the machining takes longer than a dado blade on a TS.

If I'm going to do many grooves, I use my TS. Like I said, It takes just a little longer to set up (not by much time at all). If you haven't set up a stack before... You use different thickness blades and shims together in a stack to get your thickness. After you do it a while, you get a feel for what to do. If not, use a calculator or a chart. Like I said, maybe a bit longer to get the stack together. Machining is a lot quicker than a router. Moving from one to the next cut is quicker...

But doing dado's on a TS assumes that you have a TS with an arbor that can handle the extra width of a dado stack... and the HP to turn it. I have commercial finish quality stacks, as well as commercial standard stacks. I run 4.5 HP w/ 8" and 10" dado's. I would say minimum 1-1/2HP with a 6" dado.

Saying that one is better than the other doesn't wash with me... they are just "different." The width of both can be tailored and tweaked to what you need to do. Someone on a budget can get off cheaper with a router, but it takes longer. Cutting edges eventually wear and need to be sharpened on both, but you get more board feet of cut from a stack. But by the time you figure all the factors in, Dado stacks and the level of TS to drive them is a higher investment.

A low-dollar, usable standard stack can be had for about $50-$70. I'm saying that you can get a stack for about that price that will have a good edge on the sides of the groove, without excessive tear-out... and get a straight cut and even width. That is what is visual in spline joint joining. The quality of the bottom of the groove is not that important until you get to higher end joining. 

Besides, the finish quality stacks I have, most people could not afford them and would be prohibitive except for those that really needed them. But for what I do with veneered stock and melamine's, etc... Finish stack and dado scoring (shimmed scoring blades) are a real plus. Which would be a challenge with a router, on the same stock., in the same time and effort.

Not saying that routers don't do a go job, because overall, someone just starting out could, They do a quality job on grooving with a jig. You can get a very quality groove with a router, at nominal costs. One thing you have to take care with is to ensure consistent width of the groove... Then you're golden with that. If not, that will be visual (especially on long grooves, in the joint).

So, yes. There is pluses and drawbacks on both sides. They sort of wash each other out, but basically-- i see my decisions on those being the application and volume.

Next is a question-- 
Is your Miter Saw a SCMS? If so, then why now do it with that? If it's already set and there, in a pinch, I do up to about 14" long grooves with mine. Gives someone practice in that technique. (Using 1/8" to 1/4" FTG tipped blades)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Funny you should mention that, Mike. Long before I had a TS, I used my radial arm saw with a dado set for almost all my dados and rebates. Never really considered using my SCMS. But I've sure used my builders saw a bazillion times, on framing jobs,
for rebates and (rough) mortises.


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## twinton (Jul 28, 2014)

My preference is a radial arm with a dado hands down. I have used my sliding miter to do the same as well in a pinch. Good luck


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I like the radial arm for narrow enough pieces for it to work, but it doesn't always. I use both the table saw and the router table, as well as a portable router with a guide. Just depends on the size of the workpiece and how far from the edge the dado is.

To me no method is "best" all the time!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> I like the radial arm for narrow enough pieces for it to work, but it doesn't always. I use both the table saw and the router table, as well as a portable router with a guide. Just depends on the size of the workpiece and how far from the edge the dado is.
> 
> To me no method is "best" all the time!


+1 on all points.

I used to use my radial arm saw allot for that. Now, not as much. I still have one RAS for sale, and am putting the other for sale as well. I need the room. I have 3 machines for sale now (the 3rd in that shop saw.)


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> +1 on all points.
> 
> I used to use my radial arm saw allot for that. Now, not as much. I still have one RAS for sale, and am putting the other for sale as well. I need the room. I have 3 machines for sale now (the 3rd in that shop saw.)


Hi, Mike. I agree, I don't use the RAS as much as I used to for dado's.

One other point, if it's a small piece, and a stopped dado, the router is my go to tool.

For cabinet nailing strip stopped dado's though, I use the table saw and a stop block. Some may question that one, but it works well for me.

Bottom line: I use whatever tools seems to be best for the job at hand. There have been times I have cut a piece or two, and changed methods mid project!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_"There have been times I have cut a piece or two, and changed methods mid project!"_
Yes! Great point, Duane. If it isn't working for you, STOP what you're doing!!!
(Ruined material is bad...ruined body parts is worse.)


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*Router Dados.*

About 2 years ago I purchased a Whiteside 23/32 bit. We had occasion to use it this last weekend. We were building a 48in. tall by 40in. wide plywood bookcase that sits on top of a cabinet. The bookcase is 12" deep with a face frame. We simply cut the sides to 11-1/4" and clamped them together with a 24" edge clamping guide and routed both sides at one time. I don't think I will ever set up a dado set again!!!! The cuts were absolutely perfect. There was no problem with chipout or fuzzing, and the shelves fit perfectly. I forgot to reset the date stamp, so just disregard it.

Whiteside Router Bits 1083A Straight Bit with 23/32-Inch Cutting Diameter and 1-Inch Cutting Length - Straight Router Bits - Amazon.com 

Dick


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks for that photo, Dick

You have answered one of my questions on the use of those clamps....

1. holding the clamp at 90°
2. setting the distance for a dado using the router.

It is always sooo simple once you see someone else do it......

I can see myself improving some of my clamps today.

Oh, that's 2 questions....LOL


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> Thanks for that photo, Dick
> 
> You have answered one of my questions on the use of those clamps....
> 
> ...


James we added a piece of poplar that we had ran across the jointer to the wide jaws for the clamp. That gave us the T-square, with the dados cut in it on the first use. For squareness we still measure both sides to be sure. The dados in the poplar give you a reference as to exactly where the dado will be cut. We just mark the edge, either the top or the bottom, of the dado we want to cut. Then line up the dado in the poplar with the mark you made, and rout the dado. Our router baseplate does slide in the track on the clamp, but this will work with any baseplate..


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## Mike in Phx (Jul 26, 2014)

Miter saw hmmm. I never considered that. Yes I have a dewalt 12" csm. I'm sure when I look I should be able to figure out but how do you set the depth of cut?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; my Bosch has a knurled metal knob up on top that acts as a stop, preventing the saw from dropping down past a specified point. I've never actually used it...*_embarrassment_*


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's also handy for making a bunch of kerf cuts if you need a piece to curve.


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

I like that clamp guide a lot. I have a clamp like that but never used it like that. It would be very handy out on the job site.


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## Canuk67 (Sep 22, 2014)

I have a decent dado stack for my TS but no router which is one of the reasons I was drawn to this forum. I haven't always been satisfied with the dados I have cut and have wondered if a router wouldn't do a better job. I have enjoyed this thread and found the discussion informative. In the meantime I have been looking at you tube videos about building a TS sled and have come to realize that the problem with my dados is that I cant keep a 6 or 7 foot piece of 1x12 steady as I push it through the saw. Has anyone built a TS sled that would accommodate a dado stack?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Canuk67 said:


> I have a decent dado stack for my TS but no router which is one of the reasons I was drawn to this forum. I haven't always been satisfied with the dados I have cut and have wondered if a router wouldn't do a better job. I have enjoyed this thread and found the discussion informative. In the meantime I have been looking at you tube videos about building a TS sled and have come to realize that the problem with my dados is that I cant keep a 6 or 7 foot piece of 1x12 steady as I push it through the saw. Has anyone built a TS sled that would accommodate a dado stack?


are you face or edge dadoing???
id the board straight/flat in all directions???
link for the sled you are thing about????


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## Canuk67 (Sep 22, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> are you face or edge dadoing???
> id the board straight/flat in all directions???
> link for the sled you are thing about????


I am cross cutting a dado across the face of the board. As you might imagine a 12" wide board barely fits so instead of dado's which are terrible I have reverted to cleats to support the shelves. An example of a TS sled is here I am not sure if I did that correctly. I suspect I would be better off buying a router and building jig but that's in the future.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Canuk67 said:


> I am cross cutting a dado across the face of the board. As you might imagine a 12" wide board barely fits so instead of dado's which are terrible I have reverted to cleats to support the shelves. An example of a TS sled is here I am not sure if I did that correctly. I suspect I would be better off buying a router and building jig but that's in the future.


me and many others would have gone router and self clamping edge guide a very long time ago and made the dadoes a cake and pie deal......


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Kurt; what Stick said! If it's awkward it's also probably dangerous. I tend to go with the solution that's least likely to require bandaids or a trip to the ER.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've been ruminating on everyone's input, for the past year, and my plan for a router table will for sure centre on a new Bosch 1617 EV plus under table base.
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listi...5&sr=8-2&keywords=bosch+1617evs&condition=new

http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-RA1165-Under-Table-Router-Above-Table/dp/B0007VHPFK
I don't need a plunge base as I'm more than pleased with my existing Bosch 1619 plunge router. I just can't see having to take it in and out of the table, and changing bases. If I'm going to have a table it''s going to have it's own dedicated router.
That undertable mounting base, _with above table ht. adjustment_, combined with Bosch's superb customer service, sold me. I can wait for a sale on the 1617...


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> I've been ruminating on everyone's input, for the past year, and my plan for a router table will for sure centre on a new Bosch 1617 EV plus under table base.
> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listi...5&sr=8-2&keywords=bosch+1617evs&condition=new
> 
> http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-RA1165-Under-Table-Router-Above-Table/dp/B0007VHPFK
> ...


 
You don't need the under table base. The fixed base has the a\same adjustment mechanism as the under table base. Unless you don't want to commit the fixed base to the table. I never use my fixed base, only the plunge base, so I'll be attacing the fixed base to my table, which I'm building now.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks Robert!! I went back and rechecked the specs...apparently they changed the base design to exactly what you said...  
_"Now includes RA1161 fixed-base with system for adjusting bit height from above a router table"_
Paint me happy... For under $200; what a deal!


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> me and many others would have gone router and self clamping edge guide a very long time ago and made the dadoes a cake and pie deal......


+1 what Stick said.

BTW I never met a pecan pie I didn't like. :lol:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> I never met a pecan pie I didn't like. :lol:


at least you aren't a threat to my slice of apple pie or the sticky buns....


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## Canuk67 (Sep 22, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> me and many others would have gone router and self clamping edge guide a very long time ago and made the dadoes a cake and pie deal......


Thanks I think that's what I'll do.


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## Canuk67 (Sep 22, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Kurt; what Stick said! If it's awkward it's also probably dangerous. I tend to go with the solution that's least likely to require bandaids or a trip to the ER.


About 10 years ago my TS snuck up on me while I only thought I was awake, and in a split second chewed off my pinkie and ring finger. So on my last project I gave up on dados and shifted to cleats to support the shelves. Although the aesthetic appeal will be lost I won't be running to the house for a bandaid. I am going to buy a router as soon as I can decide on which one.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Canuk67 said:


> Thanks I think that's what I'll do.


speed squares make excellent guides...

do a test cut w/ the router and the square in place...
measure the distance from the edge of the cut to the edge of the square...
there's your set back and now you can use a square to the right and left of the dadoes for guides and limits...
w/ two squares you can use smaller dia bits than the dado and get the absolute dado width you want... 
some day you can build yourself a dado/mortising guide... 
plans for them are in the thread link listed below...
another bonus for using the squares is they are multipurpose tools vs a jig being dedicated and won't go out of kilter like a jig could...

see post #'s 204 and 206 for starters and set up......
take the time, read the whole thread, there's lots of information in it that you could use...

http://www.routerforums.com/router-bits-types-usage/47459-router-bits-mortise-tenon-project-6.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Canuk67 said:


> About 10 years ago my TS snuck up on me while I only thought I was awake, and in a split second chewed off my pinkie and ring finger. So on my last project I gave up on dados and shifted to cleats to support the shelves. Although the aesthetic appeal will be lost I won't be running to the house for a bandaid. I am going to buy a router as soon as I can decide on which one.


you could ogee the cleats...

go Bosch on the router.. you won't regret it...
lots of threads on router selection here...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry to hear about your accident, Kurt. 
Using my TS without the blade guard gives me the willies. One close call (yes there was blood spilt) with a RAS was my 'fair warning'...


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