# First attempt at wall shelves



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys my hats off to you guys . A guy doesn't realize how much time and effort goes into what would seem to be a basic project . 
I am trying to build some storage shelves that are mounted high up on the walls . I built these but to get things off the floor and work bench . 

I was trying to do the math and it dawned on me that if I cut a bunch of 12" strips from a 4/8 sheet of plywood that I would end up with a bunch of waste as the saw blade takes up some material l so I made it 11.75" deep 

Here I cut the lengths out after I did the cross cut . I have enough here for two 



Not a great pic but here I'm dadoing a 1/2" in order for the back to be counter sunk in . Of course the plywood is warped so I had to run every piece threw three times . Kinda gave me the creeps pushing the wood down into the blade with my hand in order to make sure it all the material was being removed . A push stick didn't work , wish I had that pick block I was going to order .

I was going to rabbit the other joints to but forgot and it was to late as I should have done it after cross cutting .



So I bought two Kreg shelf pin jigs . I was going to go with standards but didn't like the quality of the ones in town . 
I was a little choked as I drilled the first hole and then forgot to insert the pin on the third board , so it moved and was out close to an 1/8" so I used that board for the bottom where it's hidden.
I used that piece of 2/4 as a spacer as I didn't need holes at the beginning 


I found out I was drilling on to low a speed and going in to fast so some holes had splinters . I have it down pat now 

These were the first attempt on the pic below . You can see there not as clean 


So I started doing some pocket holes and for the first time I realized that this piece goes up and down too . I found a gold thumb screw that goes in the jig that I wasn't aware of before . Dam I'm terrible with instructions . I think you slide it into the position that is the same thickness as the material ?

I set the bit for what I think is for 1/2" material as the back is 1/2" 

Little did I realize that there's different styles of pocket screws . When I was using the pan heads they were not going in flush and sticking out a bit . No big deal but I didn't understand what was going wrong



I find the jig awkward with tall pieces . It would be nice if a guy had material on both sides of the jig for support 


Because of the dadoing there's a small gap . It isn't really noticeable though 


Putting the back on . I don't like the tight bond 2 as it sets up to quickly . When I run out I'll use my tight bond 3


These other pocket screws recessed in better . You sure have to be careful when installing them as I cracked the wood once . I'm tempted to start with a drill but finish with a screw driver on the next shelf


Here it is on the wall . Much better than the one I bought at HD . 


I will build the other one tommorow and install it on the right side of this one . Should help with my storage issues . Shame that I have to take them down to drywall in the future


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Looks like you are on your way, Rick. Looks good so far. Don't need pin holes near the bottom anyway. Probably the bottom shelf will have the largest things in it anyway.
Keep going. Great pictures.

Are these going on the brick wall?

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Are these going on the brick wall?
> 
> Herb


There's no brick walls in the garage as its new . I just really wanted some decent shelves to organize the garage a tad . Hopefully I can start on some drawers for the work bench this week . I really want to have all my router accessories in drawers where I can find them. Same for sandpaper etc


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

nice job Rick....

but can you take them down to insulate???...

why didn't you insulate the wall and put up at least one sheet of OSB before you hung the cab???...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> nice job Rick....
> 
> but can you take them down to insulate???...
> 
> why didn't you insulate the wall and put up at least one sheet of OSB before you hung the cab???...


That would be no fun . You know I like doing things twice at the very least .

Yea it seems a tad backwards IMO too . But hey , they just aren't that difficult to bring down and I suspect the garage isn't going to get drywalled till next summer the way things are going . Would sure be nice though if the walls were done though . The sad part is that the ceiling must be done first. If it was I'd do as you mentioned


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> That would be no fun . You know I like doing things twice at the very least .
> 
> Yea it seems a tad backwards IMO too . But hey , they just aren't that difficult to bring down and I suspect the garage isn't going to get drywalled till next summer the way things are going . Would sure be nice though if the walls were done though . The sad part is that the ceiling must be done first. If it was I'd do as you mentioned



horse hockey... no, the ceiling doesn't need to be done 1st...
do your walls 1st and stop at the OSB then the ceiling won't be an issue......

insulate several bays....
stick up your OSB...
insulate and do two sheets... way better and minimal cost... you will notice shop improvement right off...
now you have unlimited nailers compliments of the OSB providing you use to screws to hang stuff as long as they *ARE NOT* drywall screws...
that little bit of insulation will go a long way...
insulate and rock the ceiling later then rock the walls...

and surface mount your electric for maximum versatility...
see if you can find 1/2'' or better thick OSB and you can hang your ruck on the wall... 7/16'' for your bicycle or less...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Holy Moly....great progress, Rick........

Keep on trucking.....

Although I agree with Mr Stick. At least lay some fibreglass insulation in between the timbers.


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## Web Shepherd (Feb 8, 2012)

I have been following this thread and really learned something from Stick's posting of the various unknown uses of drywall screws. A gem of information. After putting down OSB boards in my unfinished attic with deck screws, I was getting in the habit of using deck screws for just about any projects including anchoring 8 ft lengths of 2x4's on saw horses and ripping them with a circular saw for tomato stakes. And Rick, your photos and descriptions are great. 

Bob


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

jw2170 said:


> Holy Moly....great progress, Rick........
> 
> Keep on trucking.....
> 
> Although I agree with Mr Stick. At least lay some fibreglass insulation in between the timbers.


It's nothing much but I have to say using the pocket screws and shelf pin hole jig is a good learning experience . I can't believe I never knew what a pocket hole was till I joined here . I'm kinda liking them and wish I knew about them years ago as there's places it really would have helped


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Rick,

The shelves are looking good!

How are you attaching your cabinets to the studs/wall? I can't tell from the photos. However, I would suggest using French cleats if you are not already. Much easier to remove and install the cabinets/shelves, less likely to pull loose, and more versatile if you want to rearrange.

Listen to Stick, please! Insulate the wall as you go. You will be surprised at how fast it will get done if you do it as you go. The ceiling doesn't have to be done first. In some respects it will be easier to do the ceiling after everything is arranged, stored and out of the way. Your floor area will be uncluttered and all you will have to do is move around some of the equipment instead of clearing out the shop.

□ Insulate
□ Sheath
□ Electrical
□ Ceiling
□ Lighting
□ Cabinets/shelves
□ Drawers
□ Dust Collection?
□ Router table and any other project your little heart desires.

Just start ticking them off...break them into smaller jobs, (like Stick suggested), and watch them disappear.

Bill


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Nice goin' Rick. You mentioned that you had trouble with the pocket holes in long pieces. I just have the smallest Kreg jig and I do the holes with the parts laying on the bench, instead of standing up. You have to clamp for each hole though.

I have to get started doing some storage for my garage. Unfortunately I need the storage to get the room to start.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys my hats off to you guys . A guy doesn't realize how much time and effort goes into what would seem to be a basic project .
> 
> You can say that again. Every project I start, no matter how small and straightforward, becomes a long drawn out operation. When you see some of the intricate work that has been done by forum members, you realize what human dynamos a lot of them are.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> The shelves are looking good!
> 
> ...


Bill I was going to use French cleats as I think it's a great system , but never did it . 
I should pop it down and go that route. You guys have me thinking about getting this insulation done . Was sure hoping to do other things right now but it's tempting and I wouldn't have to do things twice .

Thanks for all the replies guys


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

chessnut2 said:


> RainMan1 said:
> 
> 
> > Guys my hats off to you guys . A guy doesn't realize how much time and effort goes into what would seem to be a basic project .
> ...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Not a great pic but here I'm dadoing a 1/2" in order for the back to be counter sunk in . Of course the plywood is warped so I had to run every piece threw three times . Kinda gave me the creeps pushing the wood down into the blade with my hand in order to make sure it all the material was being removed . A push stick didn't work , wish I had that pick block I was going to order .
> 
> 
> 
> I find the jig awkward with tall pieces . It would be nice if a guy had material on both sides of the jig for support


Rick:

When doing dadoes, I like to use the GRR-Ripper - feels a safer and works better than that skimpy push stick you were using.

I've got the Kreg 2000, came with two side supports that will hold up pieces and avoids tipping sideways. I've got mine set up on a jig that I clamp to my bench. See pictures attached.

Vince


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick here is what happened when I was installing the dado and lost the washer down the hole buried in sawdust. I got my telescoping magnet out and p[oked around in the sawdut till I found it. I couldn't reach down in there with full dado set on the spindle, there wasn't enough room.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> Rick:
> 
> When doing dadoes, I like to use the GRR-Ripper - feels a safer and works better than that skimpy push stick you were using.
> 
> ...


Well Vince I wonder if I have those pieces for the Kreg jig to . I have to check out the garage as I remember seeing other parts but didn't have a clue what they were for


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Electrical first!!!* 
Do your shop layout then get that electrical system in. *Do NOT drill any holes in your trusses!* Big no-no.
If it's a 'garage' as far as the Building Code is concerned (not what you're using it for) the Bldg. Inspectors will _insist_ on a minimum of 1/2" Fireguard drywall. If you've done otherwise, there may be insurance implications. 
Fireguard works! I've seen it with my own eyes...arson on a townhouse and garage. I was hugely impressed with how effective that stuff is; amazing really.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> Just start ticking them off...break them into smaller jobs, (like Stick suggested), and watch them disappear.
> 
> Bill


be nice if he listened...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

plan "B" grippers...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Herein lies the rub Rick... you can learn to do something half ass'ed and develop bad habits while you are at it. OR.. you can take your time, learn to do it right, perhaps not the first time or second or whatever, but you get it right in the end, and take pride in what you've learned and how you've applied it. All that you learned on this project will be eventually applied in later projects. This wood working stuff ain't all that easy, and if you want to get good at it, you gotta pay your dues  I'm glad to see you anti-upped on these shelves. Nice job!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> be nice if he listened...


Yes that has been a problem since grade 1 , can't see developing that skill at this point :|


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Herein lies the rub Rick... you can learn to do something half ass'ed and develop bad habits while you are at it. OR.. you can take your time, learn to do it right, perhaps not the first time or second or whatever, but you get it right in the end, and take pride in what you've learned and how you've applied it. All that you learned on this project will be eventually applied in later projects. This wood working stuff ain't all that easy, and if you want to get good at it, you gotta pay your dues  I'm glad to see you anti-upped on these shelves. Nice job!!!


Bill that is exactly what I was thinking . I'm using techniques on these simple shelves that will hopefully evolve into something better later on . So far I'm pretty impressed with what I've learned here lately .

I'll say one thing , I have a lot of respect for the guys here who can build kitchen cabinets . As I was working I was thinking about Mikes cabinets and when he had laid out all those parts to install pocket holes into . That's a ton of labour and math IMO


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## Red Stick (Sep 7, 2011)

Lot's of good thoughts here but I want to add another twist. I am also building a new shop and the interior looks pretty much exactly the same. The ceiling is 10' and I plan to use 4x8 plywood for the interior walls. This, obviously, leaves about 2' open at the top. I also plan to put storage in that area, approx. 2' high. Shelves would be easier, but, and here's my added twist, I'm thinking more along the lines of cabinets (you know, with doors!) to keep the dust build up down. In my current shop I have a pretty good dust collection system but does anybody collect 100%? So, everything that is exposed gets a layer of dust. Things I have in drawers or behind doors avoid this. What you have built already could pretty easily have doors added; don't have to be the high end fancy kind. 

Also, as far as your Kreg pocket hole jig, it is so easy to make a base with wings at the same height as the drilling surface to support the longer pieces. And yes it does make it a lot easier.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Red Stick said:


> Lot's of good thoughts here but I want to add another twist. I am also building a new shop and the interior looks pretty much exactly the same. The ceiling is 10' and I plan to use 4x8 plywood for the interior walls. This, obviously, leaves about 2' open at the top. I also plan to put storage in that area, approx. 2' high. Shelves would be easier, but, and here's my added twist, I'm thinking more along the lines of cabinets (you know, with doors!) to keep the dust build up down. In my current shop I have a pretty good dust collection system but does anybody collect 100%? So, everything that is exposed gets a layer of dust. Things I have in drawers or behind doors avoid this. What you have built already could pretty easily have doors added; don't have to be the high end fancy kind.
> 
> Also, as far as your Kreg pocket hole jig, it is so easy to make a base with wings at the same height as the drilling surface to support the longer pieces. And yes it does make it a lot easier.


Doors would be nice as your right dust is going to be an issue


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes that has been a problem since grade 1 , can't see developing that skill at this point :|


 @Stick486

Stick, 

I think Rick just told you that he is never going to change! Guess you'll just have to deal with it. Rick, says, he has.

Rick,

If you don't develop the skills then you will never get anything done at all, or learn from your mistakes. Do, learn, repeat, and perfect. Better shelves...build more...learn and then try something different.

Before you know it, it'll be second nature.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

schnewj said:


> @Stick486
> 
> 
> Before you know it, it'll be second nature.


That's what in hoping for 

Well someday , that's if I get my garage insulated so I don't forget everything in the mean time


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm thinking of popping it off the wall and doing a long section of French cleats to hold the two of them on . I like that system


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> @Stick486
> 
> Stick,
> 
> ...



saw it as sut up and go away....
I can do that...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> saw it as sut up and go away....
> I can do that...


lol , no Stick don't go :no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> lol , no Stick don't go :no:


lol hell....

have a nice day Rick...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> lol hell....
> 
> have a nice day Rick...


Leaving so soon ? :crying:

I promise I'll try to listen harder . Give me one more chance :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> Rick:
> 
> When doing dadoes, I like to use the GRR-Ripper - feels a safer and works better than that skimpy push stick you were using.
> 
> ...


Ok I looked and apparently I don't have those side pieces Vince . I think I'm going to make a base for this jig that will have extra support and design it so I can remove it from my work station when needed . So many projects , so little time !

Btw I just ordered a Gripper , the 200 model . Seems cheap compared to a mishap


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> ......So many projects , so little time !......


 @RainMan1
You'll have more time in the shop once you've insulated it.

I'm a third of the way through insulating mine as I tackle other projects along the way. Can't get to the last section of wall until I build some mobile cabs, then the last section get's done. I've put french cleats all around and made various french cleat storage solutions for many tools and clamps. Made life a lot easier.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> @RainMan1
> You'll have more time in the shop once you've insulated it.
> 
> I'm a third of the way through insulating mine as I tackle other projects along the way. Can't get to the last section of wall until I build some mobile cabs, then the last section get's done. I've put french cleats all around and made various french cleat storage solutions for many tools and clamps. Made life a lot easier.


Love to see pictures of your shop . I'm liking the French cleat idea a lot


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## morris3 (Apr 23, 2015)

great-great job! I'm so interested in your project. Wish you luck and good health! I highly respect such talent.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

morris3 said:


> great-great job! I'm so interested in your project. Wish you luck and good health! I highly respect such talent.


Thanks Alan but not to much talent here lol .

Guys for French cleats , just one at the top and one at the bottom should suffice from 3/4" plywood ? Maybe make the cleats 2-3" in height ? Add a few screws threw the inside of the cabinet into the cleat on the wall?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Alan but not to much talent here lol .
> 
> Guys for French cleats , just one at the top and one at the bottom should suffice from 3/4" plywood ? Maybe make the cleats 2-3" in height ? Add a few screws threw the inside of the cabinet into the cleat on the wall?


Just one at the top...3 -> 3 1/2 wide. Whatever suits you. The bottom one is only a spacer so the cabinet will hang properly.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Just one at the top...3 -> 3 1/2 wide. Whatever suits you. The bottom one is only a spacer so the cabinet will hang properly.


Rick,

Here is a picture of my saw till. I only used one cleat at the top with a spacer so that it hangs straight, as Mike said in the previous post.

I used Tech Screws on a 1 X 4 screwed directly into a cement block wall. You will just screw into your studs.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Rick,

I case you are concerned about weight...here is both my saw and plane tills hanging off of the same 6' long cleat.

If you are still concerned with weight being an issue, use two cleats.


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## bcfunburst (Jan 14, 2012)

*Wall Shelves*

I think I found a perfect solution for those of us who are less skilled. I found this photo someplace on the net and found it quite funny. ******* wall shelves, I'm sure.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Reg I might come to that lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Just one at the top...3 -> 3 1/2 wide. Whatever suits you. The bottom one is only a spacer so the cabinet will hang properly.





schnewj said:


> Rick,
> 
> Here is a picture of my saw till. I only used one cleat at the top with a spacer so that it hangs straight, as Mike said in the previous post.
> 
> I used Tech Screws on a 1 X 4 screwed directly into a cement block wall. You will just screw into your studs.


That's a great job of organizing tools 


Guys I really had my heart set on two ( one top and one bottom ) but when you think about I guess it's not necessary ? In theory I could do a spacer on the bottom


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> That's a great job of organizing tools
> 
> 
> Guys I really had my heart set on two ( one top and one bottom ) but when you think about I guess it's not necessary ? In theory I could do a spacer on the bottom


Rick:
If you use two (one top/one bottom), then you have to get them set exactly otherwise only one will bear the weight (hope that makes sense).

Only one is needed.

The other way to ensure that the cabinet sits flush to the wall is to inset the cleat into the sides, so for 3/4 inch cleat, you create a rebate in the side that is 3/4 inch. Then you would have to make the mating piece on the wall the length of, or shorter than, the span between the side pieces.

Vince


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> Rick:
> If you use two (one top/one bottom), then you have to get them set exactly otherwise only one will bear the weight (hope that makes sense).
> 
> Only one is needed.
> ...


Never even thought about a rebate . In this case I'm fine with it sticking out though , but great idea ! 

And yes I'm aware they would have to be spaced accurately . I was going to use a piece of wood as a spacer when I installed them on the cabinet and on the wall , but I guess I'll just do one . I thought it would be easier to secure the bottom with a cleat as your not looking for a stud , but can't the bottom just rest under its own weight , or should it be screwed too the wall too?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> That's a great job of organizing tools
> 
> 
> Guys I really had my heart set on two ( one top and one bottom ) but when you think about I guess it's not necessary ? In theory I could do a spacer on the bottom


Run a 3 inch screw (or two) through the French cleat into a wall stud and your cabinet will be stuck like Chuck! :grin:


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Never even thought about a rebate . In this case I'm fine with it sticking out though , but great idea !
> 
> And yes I'm aware they would have to be spaced accurately . I was going to use a piece of wood as a spacer when I installed them on the cabinet and on the wall , but I guess I'll just do one . I thought it would be easier to secure the bottom with a cleat as your not looking for a stud , but can't the bottom just rest under its own weight , or should it be screwed too the wall too?


I may be stating the obvious but the cleat (1) should be at the top. The weight on the shelf will be bearing down. If you put the cleat on the bottom, you will have to secure the top so that it has NO CHANCE of tipping forward - kind of defeats the purpose of the cleat. So, one cleat at the top and use a spacer at the bottom.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> I may be stating the obvious but the cleat (1) should be at the top. The weight on the shelf will be bearing down. If you put the cleat on the bottom, you will have to secure the top so that it has NO CHANCE of tipping forward - kind of defeats the purpose of the cleat. So, one cleat at the top and use a spacer at the bottom.


Yes the top part was self explanatory , even for a Canuk lol. Just wondered if you guys put a screw in the bottom also , but Mike answered that 

Thanks guys


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Rick:
Not sure if you've ever seen this guy - Steve Johnson - has quite a few videos and writes articles for Highland Woodworker. Has a bit of a slow drawl and if you can get by that, his vids are pretty good.
Hes got a series on building shop cabinets. This is part II, that talks about French cleats:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> Rick:
> Not sure if you've ever seen this guy - Steve Johnson - has quite a few videos and writes articles for Highland Woodworker. Has a bit of a slow drawl and if you can get by that, his vids are pretty good.
> Hes got a series on building shop cabinets. This is part II, that talks about French cleats:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTccHpbqKvI


Vince a big thank you!  
Wow I wish I seen this video before I proceeded . I thought it would very difficult to safely cross cut rabbit joints after I left myself with small pieces but this video showed me I was wrong . The fixes are so simple yet I don't think of them . 
I really have to order some of these clamps asap! Does anyone know what there called ?


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Light duty bar clamps

Pony Tools Incorporated - Light Duty Bar Clamps


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rockler has them..."auxiliary fence clamps"


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Of course Mike - I thought Rick was talking about the Pony clamps

You can get them from Lee Valley as well:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=72984&cat=1,41080,51225


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Vince a big thank you!
> Wow I wish I seen this video before I proceeded . I thought it would very difficult to safely cross cut rabbit joints after I left myself with small pieces but this video showed me I was wrong . The fixes are so simple yet I don't think of them .
> I really have to order some of these clamps asap! Does anyone know what there called ?


Steve has some great videos. 

The clamps are called "fence clamps". Here is just one example.

Fence Clamps & Accessories

Bill


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Awesome thanks guys . I just had a bad thought as my fence is an Excalibur and is a little unusual and it may take some improvising . Kinda miss the Bies now


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

These are 27 bucks a pop but maybe the quality is worth it ? 

http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001DSZFMG?keywords=Fence clamps&qid=1436324966&ref_=sr_1_7&sr=8-7

This is a good name too 
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B007OXBLHC?keywords=Fence clamps&qid=1436324966&ref_=sr_1_8&sr=8-8

These no name are inexpensive so I wonder if the quality is there . There shipped from Amazon so they will be here quick 
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00EWO580M?keywords=Fence clamps&qid=1436324966&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Any of those should work. They are based on the same idea. The "L" shaped end fits in a hole in the auxiliary fence and the clamp secures the board to the fence.

I have the Rockler clamps. My aux fence looks just like the picture. Works well for dado sets when you need to cut a rabbet.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

The Lee Valley ones are $7.50 / pair. Not sure how close you are to Van, but shipping wouldn't be that much.

Anyway, you're only holding an auxiliary fence, so you don't need to exert a lot of clamping pressure. Not sure about others, but I'd go for the less expensive ones, personally


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> The Lee Valley ones are $7.50 / pair. Not sure how close you are to Van, but shipping wouldn't be that much.
> 
> Anyway, you're only holding an auxiliary fence, so you don't need to exert a lot of clamping pressure. Not sure about others, but I'd go for the less expensive ones, personally


Ok Vince but I was a little concerned about them distorting when pressure is applied .
I just found the ones at LV that you mentioned , cheapest yet at a tenth the price of the rocklers .I was just about to buy the rockler though as Amazon is just to easy to order from . I hate going threw all that ordering crap with visa etc at LV . They should keep your info just like Amazon IMO


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well thank you guys for the great info . I ended up ordering the Rocklers . Not understanding if there's one or two in a pack so I ordered twice . I can't see having extra ones being an issue

Ok it says there a pair so looks like I will have four total . I was confused as lower down is says quantity 1
http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00...324966&ref_=sr_1_7&sr=8-7&tag=vglnk-ca-c89-20


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Well thank you guys for the great info . I ended up ordering the Rocklers . Not understanding if there's one or two in a pack so I ordered twice . I can't see having extra ones being an issue
> 
> Ok it says there a pair so looks like I have four total
> 
> Rockler Universal Fence Clamps, Pair, Tools & Home Improvement - Amazon Canada


Rick, when I get my table saw rear extension finished, you can use that extra pair for it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I should have taken a better look as basically I'm screwed . Guess I can improvise some how 

Here's my fence 



The lever on top of the fence does disconnect the aluminum face as its reversible from left to right , but if you see where I'm pointing there's a plate there that locks the face down .



Maybe I can build a wedge shaped piece of wood to sit on the right top side of the fence to give me a flat area. Or remove the fence and route out a rectangular area where that plate is in the way .

I'm wondering if a Bies would fit my fence rail . May be the best fix having a spare fence


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Love to see pictures of your shop . I'm liking the French cleat idea a lot


Took these this morning. Not too good as taken on the phone but you get the idea.

The thicknesser cabinet was my old wood storage box. Built the one Steve Ramsey did in his video so turned the box upside down, added a rolling base, and cut a door in the side. Then made up the two doors using mortise and tenon joints on the corners with the panel in a center slot. Added magnets to the door frame and metal plate to each door, painted and done.

I really hate wasting anything!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that is well thought out...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Thanks Stick. Multiple cleats do help with organisation. Once the final side of the shop is panelled and cleated Ill have more storage room, not to mention the various rolling cabinets for mitre saw, table saw and router table, with more storage uner each.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> Took these this morning. Not too good as taken on the phone but you get the idea.
> 
> The thicknesser cabinet was my old wood storage box. Built the one Steve Ramsey did in his video so turned the box upside down, added a rolling base, and cut a door in the side. Then made up the two doors using mortise and tenon joints on the corners with the panel in a center slot. Added magnets to the door frame and metal plate to each door, painted and done.
> 
> I really hate wasting anything!


Wow Angie that is a great setup . So you've made all kinds of neat holders with French cleats to hold tools . I have to copy your idea for all my clamps . Looks like you mitered a slot for each one I believe 

Ok just seen the drill and impact brackets , what a great idea!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I hate going threw(sic) all that ordering crap with visa etc at LV . They should keep your info just like Amazon IMO..."

I don't know how Amazon gets away with storing credit card info; it's a violation of the vendors' agreement. A definite no-no. When you hear about the big guys getting hacked, and thousands of clients' personal credit info being lost, that's what they're talking about!
I guess when you're as big as Amazon there are different rules...same old, same old. 'One click' ordering indeed...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "I hate going threw(sic) all that ordering crap with visa etc at LV . They should keep your info just like Amazon IMO..."
> 
> I don't know how Amazon gets away with storing credit card info; it's a violation of the vendors' agreement. A definite no-no. When you hear about the big guys getting hacked, and thousands of clients' personal credit info being lost, that's what they're talking about!
> I guess when you're as big as Amazon there are different rules...same old, same old. 'One click' ordering indeed...


Don't ruin it for me Dan :lol:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "I hate going threw(sic) all that ordering crap with visa etc at LV . They should keep your info just like Amazon IMO..."
> 
> I don't know how Amazon gets away with storing credit card info; it's a violation of the vendors' agreement. A definite no-no. When you hear about the big guys getting hacked, and thousands of clients' personal credit info being lost, that's what they're talking about!
> I guess when you're as big as Amazon there are different rules...same old, same old. 'One click' ordering indeed...


Dan ,Amazon is not the only one, but it is safe ,just ask them.:no:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Dan ,Amazon is not the only one, but it is safe ,just ask them.:no:


So was; Home Depot and Chase....


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@Rick - I finally got around to reading the first few pages of your post. The cabinet looks good. For now, I wouldn't worry about doors and such. You can build your cabinets, then add face frames to the fronts and build doors if you like. A simple project like shop cabinets will create woodworking skills you either don't have now, or forgot you had them.

Keep up the good work.

In case you forgot, here is the link to my garage makeover project. It has been two years and I have no regrets to anything shown in this project.
http://www.routerforums.com/workshop-showroom/42403-garage-workshop-makeover.html

And a thought about your Kreg pocket hole jig. Like others mentioned, mount it on a base, clamp it to your work table when you need it, then hang it on the wall when you are through with it.

Note that the ruler seemed like a good idea at the time, but pocket screw hole drilling isn't rocket science. Drill them where you like. I just eyeball the piece, make a pencil mark near each end, middle, and space out a few in between, and start drilling.

See pics below of the one I built originally.

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Mike , that's similar to what I was going to do . Like I don't have enough on the go now lol.
Mike that sled on the top where the drill goes in the jig , I see you have a black one too. What is that exactly


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Mike , that's similar to what I was going to do . Like I don't have enough on the go now lol.
> Mike that sled on the top where the drill goes in the jig , I see you have a black one too. What is that exactly


The black block is the micro jig, designed for drilling holes in thinner material like 1/2 inch stuff. I have only used it a couple of times. It requires the 1 inch screws with the round head like in one of your pictures. A smaller dia. drill bit comes with it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I should have taken a better look as basically I'm screwed . Guess I can improvise some how
> 
> Here's my fence
> 
> ...



I think you will be OK with the aux fence and those clamps. Here are a few pics I took a few minutes ago just for you!:grin:

Note that with the "L" portion of the clamp screwed almost all the way out (save for three threads), you have at least 5 1/2 inches of area to clamp your aux fence to your TS fence.

It looks to me like you can remove part of your fence and simply clamp the aux fence board to the fence with those clamps.

Remember, you are not clamping a glue up, just a snug fit so the board won't move on ya.

Hmmm...I just noticed that metal lip. Depending on the thickness of the material you are ripping/cutting rabbets, you might get away with the aux fence resting on top of the lip. Or cut a rabbet in the back side of your aux fence so it will clear that lip. It might take some trial and error measuring and cutting of some scrap to get an aux fence of the right height, thickness and configuration to fit your fence.

Check the pics.

Hope this helps. Invoice for photos coming soon. >


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I should have taken a better look as basically I'm screwed . Guess I can improvise some how
> 
> Here's my fence
> 
> ...


The clamp plate on the side of your fence look very similar to the one used to attach the Unifence to it's sliding base. I would think that you could take a piece of wood, rabbet out the back to clear the clamp plate and use the fence clamps everyone is recommending. You would need to make the fence thick enough to accommodate the recess for the clamp plate and the thickness of the recess for the dado head plus enough clearance between the two so that they never meet. You would have the wooden fence higher than the saw fence but this can be handled by drilling the vertical holes down through the wooden fence and then slotting them open to the back so that the clamp would drop into the slot and sit on top of the saw fence. This is a much simpler solution than that needed to add an auxiliary fence to the Unifence because of it's shape.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thank you Mike and Tom . Guys wouldn't it be cool if I could use a key hole bit and mimic that slot in the aluminum face into a sacrificial wood face . That way I could attach the wood with the fences system and wouldn't need clamps whatsoever . I should take a better look at this . Probably be to good to be true though 

Tried to order another fence from WP but they weren't to interested


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Thank you Mike and Tom . Guys wouldn't it be cool if I could use a key hole bit and mimic that slot in the aluminum face into a sacrificial wood face . That way I could attach the wood with the fences system and wouldn't need clamps whatsoever . I should take a better look at this . Probably be to good to be true though
> 
> Tried to order another fence from WP but they weren't to interested


Two slots along the face of the wood - one slot the width of the clamp strip, the other wide enough to let you attach metal strips to the face with a gap wide enough to let the attachments slide through. You could buy steel flat stock at the hardware store to match the configuration of the aluminum facing and drill and countersink for the attaching screws. That may actually be easier than the fence clamps - except that you already spent all that money with Rockler.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Two slots along the face of the wood - one slot the width of the clamp strip, the other wide enough to let you attach metal strips to the face with a gap wide enough to let the attachments slide through. You could buy steel flat stock at the hardware store to match the configuration of the aluminum facing and drill and countersink for the attaching screws. That may actually be easier than the fence clamps - except that you already spent all that money with Rockler.
> 
> Tom


Yes that purchace may have been a little to hasty :|


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Yes that purchace may have been a little to hasty..."

Words to live by.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Hey guys the fence material is 1/8" thick . Anything I route would have to be the same thickness or the fence latch won't work squash wise . 


So I thought wouldn't it be just to cool if that miter channel would fit . Well unfortunately it was the exact 3/4" width . I was hoping it would slide over it and I could secure it to a piece of sacrificial wood


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

!/8" is good as you can easily buy flat stock in that thickness to use for the strips screwed to the wooden fence. The width of the strip would be determined by the sum of the half-width of the clamp strip and the width of the recess where the strip is screwed to the wooden fence - see the attached sketch (freehand is easier than SketchUp when you're faking dimensions). I also showed the concept using the Rockler clamps - the fence is higher than your existing fence to allow for attaching a featherboard over the dado to keep pressure down on the part being cut so you get consistent depth of cut.

Not to high-jack the thread, but it occurred to me that this concept would be perfect to add a wooden fence to my Unifence, normally a problem because of it's configuration and needing solutions similar to that shown in the photo. With this concept, I could totally remove the aluminum fence and replace with a wooden fence.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> !/8" is good as you can easily buy flat stock in that thickness to use for the strips screwed to the wooden fence. The width of the strip would be determined by the sum of the half-width of the clamp strip and the width of the recess where the strip is screwed to the wooden fence - see the attached sketch (freehand is easier than SketchUp when you're faking dimensions). I also showed the concept using the Rockler clamps - the fence is higher than your existing fence to allow for attaching a featherboard over the dado to keep pressure down on the part being cut so you get consistent depth of cut.
> 
> Not to high-jack the thread, but it occurred to me that this concept would be perfect to add a wooden fence to my Unifence, normally a problem because of it's configuration and needing solutions similar to that shown in the photo. With this concept, I could totally remove the aluminum fence and replace with a wooden fence.
> 
> Tom


Thanks Tom . You know I had that exact same thought and was going to see if HD had any in stock . Countersink screws into wood and it should work great IMO


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Just me thinking...

One piece of hardwood and those clamps you ordered will get you going with an auxiliary fence. Then you can spend your time and efforts on other stuff. Pic your battles, carefully, Grasshopper. :smile:


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I agree, there's no real advantage in going through all the extra work when the fence design lends itself to using the clamps and the new fence could be made in an hour. I would make the fence tall enough to allow installation of a featherboard over the dado which would compensate for any wave in the plywood panel being dadoed - the fence looks to be similar to the Unifence in that it's only attached at the one end and so may need a little weight added at the outboard end to prevent the featherboard from pushing it up. 
I was interested in the problem as I have the same basic fence attachment on the UniFence and the aluminum fence doesn't readily lend itself to a clamp on option. I've often though about just drilling a few holes through the aluminum extrusion and bolting on the wooden fence - and that may be practical thing to do, although not as elegant as the other option. Again, the wooden fence should be high enough to allow the installation of a featherboard.

Tom


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Your shelves look very nice !

gary


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

tomp913 said:


> I agree, there's no real advantage in going through all the extra work when the fence design lends itself to using the clamps and the new fence could be made in an hour. I would make the fence tall enough to allow installation of a featherboard over the dado which would compensate for any wave in the plywood panel being dadoed - the fence looks to be similar to the Unifence in that it's only attached at the one end and so may need a little weight added at the outboard end to prevent the featherboard from pushing it up.
> I was interested in the problem as I have the same basic fence attachment on the UniFence and the aluminum fence doesn't readily lend itself to a clamp on option. I've often though about just drilling a few holes through the aluminum extrusion and bolting on the wooden fence - and that may be practical thing to do, although not as elegant as the other option. Again, the wooden fence should be high enough to allow the installation of a featherboard.
> 
> Tom


 @tom - that sounds like a good idea. I might do the same. I would leave the outer ends short so the clamps would still work properly, then let the center portion be taller so a featherboard could be mounted.

I hate to keep suggesting options, but I made a fence for my band saw. One board is short so the clamps can attach it to the factory fence. A taller fence board (for resawing support) is attached to the shorter one.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Mike,

I've been looking at something like that, the problem still is the attachment to the Unifence. It would almost make sense to drill holes in the extrusion, make the fence with hanger bolts in the back and just bolt it on. I don't use the dado a lot for making rabbets - small parts get done on the RT, larger parts lie on saw horses and get cut with a router and edge guide. My big use for a featherboard on the TS fence is cutting the panel groove in rails and stiles. I bought a MagFence with the vertical attachment, mistakenly thinking that would work for me. I talked to the Tech people at MagSwith, explained what I was trying to do but they didn't have an answer. With the parts in hand, I figured out how to adapt the parts as shown. This setup works really well, holds the wood tight to the fence and table at the same time and so a TS fence for attaching a featherboard isn't high on my want list any more. 

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Mike,
> 
> I've been looking at something like that, the problem still is the attachment to the Unifence. It would almost make sense to drill holes in the extrusion, make the fence with hanger bolts in the back and just bolt it on. I don't use the dado a lot for making rabbets - small parts get done on the RT, larger parts lie on saw horses and get cut with a router and edge guide. My big use for a featherboard on the TS fence is cutting the panel groove in rails and stiles. I bought a MagFence with the vertical attachment, mistakenly thinking that would work for me. I talked to the Tech people at MagSwith, explained what I was trying to do but they didn't have an answer. With the parts in hand, I figured out how to adapt the parts as shown. This setup works really well, holds the wood tight to the fence and table at the same time and so a TS fence for attaching a featherboard isn't high on my want list any more.
> 
> Tom


Tom I never even thought about adding a feather board and think it's a great idea .
I was going to implement it after reading your post till I started thinking about the fence raising up off the table . My fence is only secured at the front so I'm not sure how well it would work .
Really liking the one your showing that goes in the miter slot but would work on wide material.
Maybe I'll build a sacraficial fence with a miter slot and see if it works . Sure liking the idea


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

My fence is too heavy to raise up once it is locked in place


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> My fence is too heavy to raise up once it is locked in place


Well hopefully mine is too


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Just me thinking...
> 
> One piece of hardwood and those clamps you ordered will get you going with an auxiliary fence. Then you can spend your time and efforts on other stuff. Pic your battles, carefully, Grasshopper. :smile:


Geez Mike I thought you knew me by now , I either take the hardest route or nothing lol.
You are right though as I should start prioritizing things . Mike I'm really wanting to do that joint you showed me , the rabbit joint , so I'm hoping to try that on the other cabinet as its not glue up yet .
I'm going to head to the garage right now and see what I can conjure up


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom I never even thought about adding a feather board and think it's a great idea .
> I was going to implement it after reading your post till I started thinking about the fence raising up off the table . My fence is only secured at the front so I'm not sure how well it would work .
> Really liking the one your showing that goes in the miter slot but would work on wide material.
> Maybe I'll build a sacraficial fence with a miter slot and see if it works . Sure liking the idea


Rick,

If you're talking about the yellow fence assembly, that's not actually in the miter slot, it just looks that way. The two knobs in-board of the white posts are switchable magnets, a half turn either way turns the magnet on or off - the featherboard can be easily slid on the table until it's in position and the switch used to turn the magnet on, locking it in place. As shown, it's holding 2-1/4" wide material down but has a little additional height adjustment available in case I want/need to make wider rails and stiles - and I could always make taller posts if needed. The two layer fence shown by Mike is a good idea as it cuts down on the weight - and would allow you to use melamine for the facing. 

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Rick,
> 
> If you're talking about the yellow fence assembly, that's not actually in the miter slot, it just looks that way. The two knobs in-board of the white posts are switchable magnets, a half turn either way turns the magnet on or off - the featherboard can be easily slid on the table until it's in position and the switch used to turn the magnet on, locking it in place. As shown, it's holding 2-1/4" wide material down but has a little additional height adjustment available in case I want/need to make wider rails and stiles - and I could always make taller posts if needed. The two layer fence shown by Mike is a good idea as it cuts down on the weight - and would allow you to use melamine for the facing.
> 
> Tom


Ok I was kinda wondering as at first I thought it was magnetic but then it looked like it was over the slot and possibly anchored . Nice setup!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom I just had a bad thought as the area where my fence clamps on is towards the front . Hopefully this will be ok as the sacrificial fence gets longer towards the other side and it stays tight against the fence . I wonder how long thisiece needs to be really? 
Guess I won't know till I try it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I was curious to see if this concept would work so I bought some 1/8" thick aluminum stock to make a sacrificial fence that would work with the factory system instead of clamps .
Here I put them in the clamp down area for a test 



mitering a channel to give clearance for that bar on the fence . Bought a push block till the gripper gets here but it's to slippery . Better than nothing though 


Laying the aluminum strips on the first fence piece as this will be how they sit 


This is how it will sit on the fence 


Mitered another slot on another taller piece for a feather board 


This is an angle view . Guys nothing is together yet as the parts are merely laying together till I countersink some screw holes in all the aluminum and attach everything . Hopefully it will be tight at the far end of the fence . I can certainly still use the Rockler clamps and make another


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Rick,

That's looking good. I can't see a problem with the sub-fence staying tight to the base fence, but you can always use one of the Rockler clamps out at the back end if you think that it's going to be a problem. I'm not familiar with that fence - does it have a means to adjust it so that the face is perpendicular to the table top? With either design, this or the simpler clamp on one, you have the ability to change fence facings for special application - e.g. a taller fence is handy for some operations. I made a cabinet once, actually a closed box, and then cut the door off once the cabinet was complete - I could have used a much higher fence for that as the set-up was a little shaky when I was cutting through the ends.

Once you have this finished, you won't have to worry any more about your push block slipping - a featherboard on top to keep the part tight to the table and one on the side to keep it tight to the fence and you can just use a push stick from the back. This is the big benefit I get from my MagFence setup, I can get the part started and then just push it through the blade - and my hands never get anywhere near the blade which is a big plus.

Tom


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

A good job Rick and a fine photo-shoot.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick, I am not clear what that long handled thingy on top the fence is for? 

On the length of the fence question, the European TS fences only go to the backside of the blade and they can't figure out why we use long fences. 

You are doing a good job figuring out a solution to that problem.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick, I am not clear what that long handled thingy on top the fence is for?
> 
> On the length of the fence question, the European TS fences only go to the backside of the blade and they can't figure out why we use long fences.
> 
> ...


Thanks Herb as for what I'm doing I didn't really think I needed a long fence , so my idea may work

Herb that handle clamps the aluminum fence face to the main fence . It's reversible so it detaches and goes on the right with the other handle further down . 
I wish I had a normal Bies fence tell you the truth . This is there Excalibur version , it's kind of a modified Bies .
I could easily miter out a channel in a board and use it without the face and use those Rockler fence clamps instead . It may come to that


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> A good job Rick and a fine photo-shoot.


Thanks Harry.I feel a bit bad as the lighting was worse than I thought . Will do better next post when it's assembled


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Rick,
> 
> I'm not familiar with that fence - does it have a means to adjust it so that the face is perpendicular to the table top
> 
> Tom


Tom the fence can be sdjusted exactly like a Bies . But I don't want the hassle of re calibrating it going from the factory fence frame to the wood fence . I suspect my idea may work and won't have to worry . It's basically proof of concept so it's not a big loss .


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

Good God rain man, you must be a od here. 12 pages on a cabinet, us peons can build a house and get 4 comments. NOW, why rabbet the bottom and top? I only rabbet the sides then cut top and bottom 1/4 smaller, then you can staple the back to the cabinet. 
I guess I am gonna have to make a damn road trip to meet some day.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

fire65 said:


> Good God rain man, you must be a od here. 12 pages on a cabinet, us peons can build a house and get 4 comments.
> I guess I am gonna have to make a damn road trip to meet some day.


LMAO , yes I do have my issues Clay . I'm learning some good stuff from you guys though , I may be driving some of you crazy but I'm learning 

Btw I'm a slow learner


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom the fence can be sdjusted exactly like a Bies . But I don't want the hassle of re calibrating it going from the factory fence frame to the wood fence . I suspect my idea may work and won't have to worry . It's basically proof of concept so it's not a big loss .


Are you talking recalibrating for square or for rip width? The Unifence has an adjustment to get the fence perpendicular to the table - once set, any auxiliary fence should also be perpendicular as long as the back and front faces are parallel. In order to use the cursor (distance from blade to fence) as is, the auxiliary fence needs to be 2" thick - the difference in thickness between the tall and flat configurations of the standard extrusion. You would then need to use the other (than normal) cursor line for setting the rip width - an "oops" waiting to happen, and the reason that I never use the Unifence flat any more.

I'm interested in how you like the fence once it's finished as I may still use that Idea to make a fence for my Unisaw, attaching it directly to the T-section which means that the thickness of the fence would have to be the same as the extrusion if I want to use the cursor. I'm thinking though of making it from two thicknesses of plywood with blocks between them to give me the thickness and keep it light at the same time.

Tom


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> My fence is too heavy to raise up once it is locked in place


I checked and can pick up the end of my fence about 1/2" without much effort, it appears to be pivoting around the clamping mechanism at the front. I have used it with a featherboard clamped to the fence and found that the fence would lift up if I was putting a lot of force in the featherboard to compensate for some bow/wave in the plywood. The fence is light, basically just the aluminum extrusion so I compensated by setting some weight on the back end of the fence - the fence is about 40" long and it's about 20" to the center of the blade so you get a 2:1 advantage of weight added to upward reaction from the featherboard. 

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Are you talking recalibrating for square or for rip width? The Unifence has an adjustment to get the fence perpendicular to the table - once set, any auxiliary fence should also be perpendicular as long as the back and front faces are parallel. In order to use the cursor (distance from blade to fence) as is, the auxiliary fence needs to be 2" thick - the difference in thickness between the tall and flat configurations of the standard extrusion. You would then need to use the other (than normal) cursor line for setting the rip width - an "oops" waiting to happen, and the reason that I never use the Unifence flat any more.
> 
> I'm interested in how you like the fence once it's finished as I may still use that Idea to make a fence for my Unisaw, attaching it directly to the T-section which means that the thickness of the fence would have to be the same as the extrusion if I want to use the cursor. I'm thinking though of making it from two thicknesses of plywood with blocks between them to give me the thickness and keep it light at the same time.
> 
> Tom


Tom I never thought about using the measuring strip again , good point. As I say I really don't know what I'm doing and just learning as I go . 
I'm heading to the garage right now and start drilling out the aluminum stock so I can hopefully do a test rabbit on the other cabinet


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Rick,

Depending on how you work, the cursor may not be a deal breaker. For many years, I worked in a shop with two other people and some strange things happened so it became second nature to check the cut width with a tape from the fence face and a tooth. Now that I'm working by myself, I'm using the cursor more but still find myself double checking with the tape (see my note about reading the wrong line on the cursor). I find that I use the cursor more as a reference when bumping the fence over to increase or decrease the width.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I put the aluminum flat bar on the drill press . I don't know how the experts would do it but I first measured and penciled a mark every 3" and created a divot with a hammer and a centre punch to guide the drill bit . I first used a 1/8" drill bit to create a hole then followed with a bigger bit to make a countersink area for the number 6 screws .
Don't know if there's an easier way but I need to do the Ttrack next and the big bit to countersink the screws will just fit inside the track .



Bought a bunch of large clamps ,thankfully I bought a few smaller ones 




Looks like it's going to work 



Installed on main fence and secured with the factory fences clamping system 



The good news . I was concerned it wouldn't be tight at the rear of the fence but a dial gauge showed that there were no issues from front to back . As Herb mentioned I could make it shorter if there was an issue .
As I say this is kind of a proof of concept and probably more hassle than neccesary . I'm liking Tom's idea of making it 2" thick . I should have used melamine the more I think about it . Next time I guess .
I want to try and make an improved joint tommorow , so I'll as soon as I get the channel attached for the feather board I'll put it to the test


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Rick,
That's coming along nicely, will be waiting for the report on how it works for you.

When drilling T-track. I use a 1/4" dia c'sink bit to avoid putting scuff marks in the edges of the slot, they don't hurt anything though unless you get carried away with the size of the c'sink. I bought a set similar to this - 5pc Titanium Countersink Drill Bit Set - 1/4" to 3/4" - Lifetime Warranty - Countersink For Metal Cutting - Amazon.com - except made by Irwin, the different sizes come in handy if you have space limitations. I do install them in a holder made by Pat Warner Countersink and Tap Holders as that eliminates the need to raise up the DP table when c'sinking holes.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> Rick,
> That's coming along nicely, will be waiting for the report on how it works for you.
> 
> When drilling T-track. I use a 1/4" dia c'sink bit to avoid putting scuff marks in the edges of the slot, they don't hurt anything though unless you get carried away with the size of the c'sink. I bought a set similar to this - 5pc Titanium Countersink Drill Bit Set - 1/4" to 3/4" - Lifetime Warranty - Countersink For Metal Cutting - Amazon.com - except made by Irwin, the different sizes come in handy if you have space limitations. I do install them in a holder made by Pat Warner Countersink and Tap Holders as that eliminates the need to raise up the DP table when c'sinking holes.
> ...


Thanks Tom I'll try to find that 1/4" bit locally today . Bought one similar at WP but it was to big for T-track


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@Rick - looks like you are getting some good practice with your camera. Like the pics.
OH, The fence looks good also.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> @Rick - looks like you are getting some good practice with your camera. Like the pics.
> OH, The fence looks good also.


Hey Mike I just bought some new aluminium flat stock and proper screws and melamine and I'm going to do it again right now . I guess I'll use a piece of my combo track cause it's longer and will look better .
The first one was pretty much a proof of concept . I know it stays against the fence well so now I'm heading to the garage to build the real McCoy 

Mike I'm using a Samsung smart phone as its very convenient taking pics and emailing them to myself .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Making new aluminum sections to make a better fence now that I know it's going to work . Cut them to 32" as that's the length of my miter slot channel .


For consistency I air nailed a piece of mdf to another piece of scrap to make a sled and used my Bessey clamps to lock it in position on the drill press .Don't know why I never thought of that before . Must be getting smarter hanging around you guys .



I used a cordless drill to drill the 1/8" holes for the screws to go threw instead of the drill press this time . Worked well as the recesses that I already did with the drill press guided the bit


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Excellent work using your drilling jig Rick. That bar stock will hurt you if the work is not well constrained and the drill bit grabs the work piece (hope you remembered to slow down your drill motor for metal work). I don't want to distract you from the great progress you are making on your shelves, but you really should consider a table and fence for your drill press . . . after you insulate your shop. Keep up the good work!
~Jeff


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> Excellent work using your drilling jig Rick. That bar stock will hurt you if the work is not well constrained and the drill bit grabs the work piece (hope you remembered to slow down your drill motor for metal work). I don't want to distract you from the great progress you are making on your shelves, but you really should consider a table and fence for your drill press . . . after you insulate your shop. Keep up the good work!
> ~Jeff


Thanks Jeff . I think a table/fence combo for the drill press is a given now . Yet another project to undertake . I want to get the garage insulated this fall as it would be nice to putter around in there all winter . I was having a hard time finding my one air nailer and thinking about MikeStringers shelf system that he built to hold his air nailers and drills etc . Boy I have a lot to do lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok just finished the second fence attempt . Here I've dadod out the pieces ready for assembly .
In case anyone asks , I could have used T-track for a miter slot but opted to try my dual miter track instead as I've never worked with either before , and seeing as this project is expendable I thought it would be a good time to learn .



So I heard the holes must be very accurate for the dual track so I was thinking of using a router and a the Festool track to make the 1/4" holes . Well turns out I'm pretty much missing everything I need to attach the router to the track so I clamped the track down and just followed it as a guide . 



After probably checking it 5 times I did the first hole and failed miserably . The hole should have been on the centre of the line 


Wasn't very pretty coming out the other side either . Dang melamine is worse than mdf . The could have been avoided if I did the hole first over another piece of material but it's not that important in this case 


Well why I had the router in my head is beyond me . So after that Mc.Fly moment I thought why am I not using the sled on the drill press again ? Of course one clamp slipped and the sled moved , but I got it eventually 


So instead of air nailing it I just used tight bond 2 and clamped it for 30 minutes 


I didn't want to use the #6 screws this time as they really needed a lot of material taken out so I opted for a #4 . There an accident waiting to happen as the bit does not want to stay in these screws well at all . I put a thin line of glue behind the aluminum also just in case 



Here you can see the system the fence uses to pinch the channel 


Back side of the sacraficial fence 


Front side 


It looks like a big fence from a distance 


I was a little disappointed at first because when I locked down the sacrificial fence it was not at a perfect right angle to the table . I put the sub fence back on to find that I had forgotten to calibrate the levelness of the fence . Once I set it up all was good . You may have a hard time telling from the pic but the right side was down to far causing the fence to lean back


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I tried it out trying to make a rabbit joint . The wood was fairly warped now and I was surprised how well the fence held it down with the feather board in place.



Ok because I rabbited this joint I don't know how that effects pocket holes ? I used 1-1/4" screws and it seemed to be ok , although I forgot to reset the jig from 1/2" to 3/4" . I'm far to brain dead to remember all this stuff and should just buy a second jig and leave the bit and jig setup for 1/2" and one for 3/4" . I should have stayed in bed as these pocket holes were supposed to be on top out of sight , but after critiquing it 3 times I still got it wrong 


Ok I had no issues with the first cabinet , but I turned this over and I'm seeing pocket hole screw inside . Can't get it out eith as its stripped 

Here's the culprit . I rushed the cut in the back and because there was to much excessive space it made the pocket screw come out


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Came out good,Rick. Stand back everyone and watch him go now.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Came out good,Rick. Stand back everyone and watch him go now.
> 
> Herb


Thanks Herb , the fence went well but the other wall shelf not so much . I learned yet another lesson today . Do not keep going when your tired , fatigued and hungry . It seems like such simple screw ups could be avoided but I carry on and make things worse .
One major issue I have is its hard to go back into the middle a project after I've left for days . 
I seem to do better if I stay at it as I forget certain things 
The wood I previously cut for the other cabinet warped quite a bit . Thankfully this abomination is in the garage and not where it's really going to matter .

Is there a better material than 3/4" plywood good one side for cabinets? I find melamine is to brittle but the sheet of plywood I got sure wasn't that straight and got worse after it was cut and sitting around waiting for assembly

The top wasn't this warped when I first cut it but it sure is now


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

If you have a stripped pocket screw, use a small flat screwdriver. Dig in behind the head of the screw and apply pressure while you turn the screw in reverse. It will come out. You just gotta help it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

The fence turned out nice. Good job.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> The fence turned out nice. Good job.


Thanks Mike . This week is the first time I've attempted something like this . I could have saved myself a lot of trouble and waited for my clamps to show up but I was really curious as to whether this would work.

I may junk my second attempt at a cabinet as its really bothering me the way it turned out . I really need a really straight piece of plywood and build it start to finish in one evening .
Plus I really have to build a similar setup to yours for storing air nailers and drills as its driving me crazy trying to find them all the time


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> If you have a stripped pocket screw, use a small flat screwdriver. Dig in behind the head of the screw and apply pressure while you turn the screw in reverse. It will come out. You just gotta help it.


Good idea Mike , thanks


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Mike . This week is the first time I've attempted something like this . I could have saved myself a lot of trouble and waited for my clamps to show up but I was really curious as to whether this would work.
> 
> I may junk my second attempt at a cabinet as its really bothering me the way it turned out . I really need a really straight piece of plywood and build it start to finish in one evening .
> Plus I really have to build a similar setup to yours for storing air nailers and drills as its driving me crazy trying to find them all the time


Think about where pocket screws will be used and where dadoes or rabbets will be used. Don't mix 'em.

Typically, pocket screws are used with butt joints, such as the top and bottom being screwed into the sides. No need for rabbets or dadoes.

I also use them to build the face frames. To attach them to the cabinet carcase, I drill pocket holes along the front edge of the cabinet, the top and the bottom, and screw into the frame. If the holes will show on the end of the cabinets, you can plug the holes and sand them down, or add a 1/4 inch piece of plywood to cover the end and give a finished look. I have done that several times.

Hope this helps.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Think about where pocket screws will be used and where dadoes or rabbets will be used. Don't mix 'em.
> 
> Typically, pocket screws are used with butt joints, such as the top and bottom being screwed into the sides. No need for rabbets or dadoes.
> 
> ...


Ok I wish I knew this little tidbit about 2 hours ago lol . Thanks again Mike as this is good to know .
Mike with a rabbet joint should I have just glued it and clamped it ?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok I wish I knew this little tidbit 2 hours ago lol . Thanks again Mike as this is good to know .
> Mike with a rabbet joint should I have just glued it and clamped it ?


I have done it several ways. Glue only with clamps applied for an hour.

Drive wood screws from the outside of the carcase into the shelf, btm or top.

Use 18 ga brad nailer and shoot a few nails into the joint. They are just mini clamps.  They cover easy if you are going to paint the cabinet.

Here is an example. I used glue and screws (and 1/4 inch rabbets) to attach the top and bottom. You can see the pocket holes where I screwed the cabinet to the face frame. The next cabinet hides the screws.

Note: My cabinet installer was taking care of the hard part.  I just held the cabinet in place and tried to stay out of her way! :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks again Mike . I got a little carried away with these pocket screws as I thought they were kind of a neat alternative , but your right as they have there place and I didn't really use them where there neccesary.
I'm learning though and that's the main thing . Nothing better than hands on experience


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; you need to get your partner a nice set of work clothes. Something spiffy with her name embroidered on it; maybe a logo as well?


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Nice progress Rick congratulations.


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## Steve Pack (Jan 1, 2014)

*Shelf*



RainMan1 said:


> Guys my hats off to you guys . A guy doesn't realize how much time and effort goes into what would seem to be a basic project .
> I am trying to build some storage shelves that are mounted high up on the walls . I built these but to get things off the floor and work bench .
> 
> I was trying to do the math and it dawned on me that if I cut a bunch of 12" strips from a 4/8 sheet of plywood that I would end up with a bunch of waste as the saw blade takes up some material l so I made it 11.75" deep
> ...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Steve . Welcome to the forum


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I can toss my sacrificial fence setup now as my new toys arrived !


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Steve.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I can toss my sacrificial fence setup now as my new toys arrived !
> 
> /URL]




You gotta be kidding, Rick. That fence you just built is too good to dump. Use the clamps for a different kind of fence or jig in the future. 
That is my unsolicited advice.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> You gotta be kidding, Rick. That fence you just built is too good to dump. Use the clamps for a different kind of fence or jig in the future.
> That is my unsolicited advice.
> Herb


LOL Herb I was just kidding ! Gotcha 


I have to say it was fun building the fence too , and gotta chance to learn a few things on the way thanks to you guys


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> LOL Herb I was just kidding ! Gotcha
> 
> 
> I have to say it was fun building the fence too , and gotta chance to learn a few things on the way thanks to you guys


Whew, Rick I was ready to divorce you, after all we went thru to help you with the shelves,(14p.) Don't do that to us old farts with weak hearts. HAHAHAHHAHAHAA

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Whew, Rick I was ready to divorce you, after all we went thru to help you with the shelves,(14p.) Don't do that to us old farts with weak hearts. HAHAHAHHAHAHAA
> 
> Herb


Sorry Herb I'll try to more careful in the future. I keep forgetting some of you aren't 65 anymore


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## spzwd (Mar 9, 2010)

*avoiding tear-out on shelf pin holes*

Easiest way to avoid tear-out on shelf pin holes when using a jig is to use a brad point bit and run it in reverse briefly before switching to forward and drilling the hole. Th:wink:e bit will act like a scoring blade and almost entirely eliminate ragged edges (unless you are using really cheap Chinese plywood)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

spzwd said:


> Easiest way to avoid tear-out on shelf pin holes when using a jig is to use a brad point bit and run it in reverse briefly before switching to forward and drilling the hole. Th:wink:e bit will act like a scoring blade and almost entirely eliminate ragged edges (unless you are using really cheap Chinese plywood)


Thanks and welcome to the forum Steve


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Steve (spzwd).


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I'm getting pretty quick at whipping up cabinets now . I have to say this sacrificial fence is going to pay off in spades . Super impressed how well things went today . 
I put a clamp on the end of the main fence to hold it down just in case . For the most part it's not needed , but I did have a warped piece of plywood that fought a bit . Sure liking the feather board idea too . It's kinda neat how wood goes in one way but the feather board stops it from going back . 
Pretty much the coolest thing I have built to date , Thanks guys 



I'm finding its best to mark all the pieces and specify areas that are going to be mitered with a pencil to avoid confusion . I used to try and remember but I'm getting to old


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rick, I use sidewalk chalk to mark stuff. You can wipe it off with a damp rag. It certainly helps to have some kind of mark to show where cuts are to be made, or holes drilled.

Your auxiliary fence looks really nice. I like it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, I use sidewalk chalk to mark stuff. You can wipe it off with a damp rag. It certainly helps to have some kind of mark to show where cuts are to be made, or holes drilled.
> 
> Your auxiliary fence looks really nice. I like it.


Thanks Mike . I'm super impressed with it , but I'm easily amused too .

Chalk , I'm liking that better because I can see writing all over my wood . Good call Mike  
I was thinking in the future if the pencil marks were an issue to use asking tape and write on it , but chalks a better idea yet 

It's those simple things a guy just doesn't see lol


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to do something about this DC system next. It's a PITA remembering to turn it off and on all the time . I'm getting kinda spoiled with this Festool vacuum


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Rick:
Looks like that aux fence is paying off for you - nice job.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys is 1/2" ply a little to small for french cleats? I have a feelimg 3/4" is the answer


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

3/4 for me.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> 3/4 for me.


Ok 3/4 it is . I ran out of material as I wanted to do one long cleat at the top but I'll do it in sections


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well Mike I did a rabbet joint on this second cabinet



This one could not have gone better . No tear out on the shelf pin holes either as this time I had the drill on its fastest setting and went in slow .
It looks crooked but that's lens distortion 


Back fit perfectly , although I wasn't aware 1/2" wasn't really 1/2" so I may have to route the edges before I glue and air nail cleats on as its counter sunk about a 1/32"


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

When it comes time to build drawers under my work bench I think I'm going to spend the big bucks and go with Baltic birch . Not liking the quality of this good one side ply so far


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

You're gonna really enjoy those cabinets.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> You're gonna really enjoy those cabinets.


Well in the grand scheme of things it's going to get that area where the bomb went off cleaned up and ready for drawers . 
Can't wait to make drawers now . I'm sure I'll need a swear jar though


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, I use sidewalk chalk to mark stuff. You can wipe it off with a damp rag. It certainly helps to have some kind of mark to show where cuts are to be made, or holes drilled.
> 
> Your auxiliary fence looks really nice. I like it.


I made a Tortoise Planter to be raffled off in a fundraiser for our motorcycle club, and used chalk on the (wet) treated lumber parts to identify them - some of the parts were actually so wet that I had a hard time getting the mark to show. I have an order for two more (the V2.0 model based on lessons learned on the first one) and plan to buy the treated wood ahead of time and let it dry out a little before cutting out the parts.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> I made a Tortoise Planter to be raffled off in a fundraiser for our motorcycle club, and used chalk on the (wet) treated lumber parts to identify them - some of the parts were actually so wet that I had a hard time getting the mark to show. I have an order for two more (the V2.0 model based on lessons learned on the first one) and plan to buy the treated wood ahead of time and let it dry out a little before cutting out the parts.
> 
> Tom


Holy templates! 
That looks like a lot of man hours Tom


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Holy templates!
> That looks like a lot of man hours Tom


It really wasn't that bad once I got into it, a lot of pieces but the assembly went pretty easily because I used pocket screws on the joints of the octagonal layers of the body. I'm hoping that the next ones go quicker as I get more familiar with the bandsaw and can cut closer to the line - my original plan was to get close, screw the pattern to the blank and trim to final size on the router table with a pattern bit. I gave one piece a try, the bit grabbed the wet wood and scared the c**p out of me so I switched to a spindle sander with 50 grit drums.  It turned out pretty good though, we sold a bunch of tickets for it.

Tom

PS The fence looks good, and it looks as if you're getting some use out of it. Clamping/weighting the outer end of the fence is a must if you're needing a bit of force to flatten out a bowed piece of plywood.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

^^ 
Nice work Tom , that looks pretty neat


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

simplicity plus...
what's not to like...


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

+1 what Stick said.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks all, a little change of pace from what I'm normally working on. I'm just finishing up a quick cabinet to go on the mobile base of my drill press; the whole cabinet is made out of offcuts and odds and ends that have been lying around the shop (some of them for longer than I care to think). I threw a second coat of poly on it earlier this evening, will post some photos once I put the pieces all back together.

Tom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well took the first shelf down and used 3/4 and made french cleats . That's the cleat on the left and the spacer to the right 


Put one long cleat on the wall 


The one on the left is the most recent one I made . It's very easy to put these up with the cleats . Just hang them up and slide them where you want . I put one screw threw each cabinet at the bottom threw the spacer area into a stud for safety 


I did a rabbet joint on the new one and I thought compensated but I guess not as it's not as tall . Oh well .
So it's back to the garage and cut a few more shelves


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Looks good.


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Holy Hannah

Rick has two cabinets built and hung.

Will wonders never cease. :sarcastic:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

boogalee said:


> Holy Hannah
> 
> Rick has two cabinets built and hung.
> 
> Will wonders never cease. :sarcastic:


To funny Al.
It looks kinda ridiculous not having it drywalled first but it is what it is .
I'm going to build the cordless drill/air nailer holder like Mikes tommorow .
That will be a major bonus having those dang things where I can find them


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I need a couple more of them on the other side of the garage just to store all those silly plastic boxes that come with tools . Do you guys keep yours or toss them ? 
There sure taking up a lot of space


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I threw mine away.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hey Rick I can see the places that need insulation.>>>>

Nice job on the cupboards.:grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old55 said:


> Hey Rick I can see the places that need insulation.>>>>
> 
> Nice job on the cupboards.:grin:


Yes and I have to admit this whole exercise seems dumb without a finished wall . Especially as I'm looking at these cabinets on it  

I hope I get the time to insulate this fall but I have a feeling it's next years project . Would sure be nice to pudder around in there all winter though .


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Well took the first shelf down and used 3/4 and made french cleats . T
> 
> 
> I did a rabbet joint on the new one and I thought compensated but I guess not as it's not as tall . Oh well .
> So it's back to the garage and cut a few more shelves


Looking good. If you plan on making more, it's good to get a system set up to prevent variations.

- make the sides the full height of the cabinet, run the rabbets at the ends, easier to keep a consistent height.
- because of the variation in plywood thickness nowadays, set the dado head to give a fixed remaining thickness - e.g. 1/2" if using 23/32", 3/4" or some metric equivalent. Easy enough to sneak up on the depth of cut using a scrap -and your new fancy fence is going to help keep the depth consistent. This way, the length of your top and bottom is always 1" less than the finished width of the cabinet - hardly even have to think about it. The shelf length will be a little shorter than the inside dimension of the cabinet to account for the shelf pin.

You have two options for the back
- keep the sides, top and bottom the same width and rabbet all back edges. If the depth is the same as at the ends of the sides, you'll have a continuous pocket with no gaps at the corners.
- rabbet the sides for the back, and cut the top and bottom narrower than the sides by the depth of the rabbet. The back can be nailed/stapled to the edges and in the rabbet at installation, and also used to square up the cabinet.
Both methods have their pluses and minuses.

Tom


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## Steve Pack (Jan 1, 2014)

This is all from my experience and learning curve,if you rabbet the top and bottom of the sides it will close up and look better,I use my accurate framing square and pony clamps to square the box up. I have the same pocket hole jig. I found that sometimes it is easier by attaching the jig to the work, this will make it easier to work with. Also as an aside I don't counter sink the back screws. If you to the box store and purchase hardiback 1`1/4 inch screws (it will have a driver bit) the heads have a cutting surface on the head. They are good looking cabinets. If you rip the shelves and sides to 11 1/4 and face the edges with strips of wood it will have a nicer look and keep the edges form scratching up and save the edge. It's your shop, if you want wait to later to insulate go for it. The other people are speaking from experience. My 1200 sq. foot shop is insulated and dry finished and painted walled, I added an electric heater that is ceiling mounted and it does a good job of making the more comfortable. Again the shelves are mighty fine looking.


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