# Spindle vs router



## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi everyone, complete newbie here. Almost all of the very small amount I know (or believe I know), about CNC machines, I learned from reading the forums. While trying to sort out which CNC machine is the right fit for me, some use a spindle, others use a router. From what I've read spindles offer more power, quieter, more exact, but are heavier, more expensive, and not as easily replaced. Routers are less expensive, larger selection, when the brushes lead to too large a tolerance you replace the brushes or unit. Some of the machines I'm looking at use one or the other. I will be just a hobbyist, I'm an electrician and cannot really contemplate any circumstances that turn me into a commercial enterprise with the work shop. Any thoughts /opinions on which is better, or even if this is just 6 of one, half dozen of the other, would be appreciated. Just one more factor in the decision I'm trying to work out. Thank You, Artie


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

I have had both and after the spindle I would never go back. You can use more different size bits in a spindle it is much quieter the power is better. You can adjust the speed better also


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Some 3D stuff takes a long time to cut . Imagine listening to a router going for a straight 14 hours . Your in a townhouse , there's your answer right there


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

My vote is for a spindle. Yes, they are more expensive, but will outlast 10+ routers. They are quieter and made to run for constant long periods of time, whereas routers usually are used for short periods of time, and are switched on and off a lot.

Water cooled spindles, in my opinion, are a bit messy, especially for a less than commercial operation. My air cooled spindle runs very cool, lets you talk in a normal voice (no ear plugs needed) and performs very nicely.

Just my thoughts.

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

HJ, does your spindle accept 1/2" router bits as well as 1/4" and 1/8"? I feel somewhat limited by the 1/4" max size collet of my DeWalt router.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

All you have to do is change the collet. I got one of each (they take ER-20's) from Ron at Think and Tinker for about $20 cause I bent the one that came with the machine. You know, not turning the spindle on and touching it off. Makes a real rough cut that way. Awful noisy too.

Just takes about 10 seconds to undo the nut, and pop one or the other in.

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

So, HJ, if you had to choose between the air cooled spindle or Aspire software, which would it be? I can afford one right now but not both.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

spindle will out last the router 10:1...


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I moved up from VCarve to Aspire, and if you plan on doing any 3D or rotary axis work then the upgrade is easily worth the investment. The upgrade cost to go to a spindle won't buy you the added capabilities that Aspire will. IMO get Aspire first as your router can still do the work of a spindle, but a spindle alone won't do any of the things Aspire will. 

Then get the Spindle when the added things Aspire lets you do help justify its cost.

4D


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

Thank you everyone for the input, the spindle over a router did make sense to me, but I know so little that making sense to me doesn't really mean much right now LOL. As far as a water cooled spindle, one of the units I'm looking at as a good fit, uses a liquid cooled spindle, water could be the liquid as long as it doesn't see freezing conditions (it won't). It is a closed system, pump and reservoir are built in, you do have to fill it, and replace the water as it evaporates. (Axiom Auto Route 8 Pro). Another one I was looking at (Shark HD3 Pro extended bed) is standard with a router, but option for a spindle, with not built in pump, and bucket, hoses. So far I'm leaning to the Axiom, but decision is not close to being final. Thanks again for the help. Artie


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

What 4D said. Besides, they'll give you credit for your Vcarve towards Aspire.

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Air over water in my book. Just my opinion.

HJ


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Artie,

I think that Next Wave Automation no longer carries the spindle they had because I could not find it on the site but it would only accept 1/8" and 1/4" bits and was 100v where a lot of the spindles are 220v.

The long cut times on 3d projects and some 2d projects tend to ware out router bearing quicker because of the heat build up. Water cooling helps draw the heat from the spindle faster so it can run for long periods and not get hot. If you do go with the spindle make sure it will accept standard ER collets because some have their own system and replacements have to be purchased from them.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

That's what's so nice about the Probotix spindles. They take a standard ER-20 collet. Get a 1/4 and a 1/2 - unscrew the nut and change em whenever you want.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I've found we can get far more time out of the routers we use if we don't ever run them at their max speed setting. Something about the bearings used only being specified for 18,000rpm not 23,000. 

4D


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> I've found we can get far more time out of the routers we use if we don't ever run them at their max speed setting. Something about the bearings used only being specified for 18,000rpm not 23,000.
> 
> 4D


that'd be the PC routers...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

4DThinker said:


> I've found we can get far more time out of the routers we use if we don't ever run them at their max speed setting. Something about the bearings used only being specified for 18,000rpm not 23,000.
> 
> 4D


ready for an earful???

http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...above-below-table-height-adjustment-more.html


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

A lot of people run their routers too fast. It is hard on a lose CNC machine to get your feeds and speed close because the feed rate has to be slow to accommodate the looseness of the machine and the router will not go as slow as you need. Bottom line you want chips cut and not dust in the air.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

cjskelton said:


> So, HJ, if you had to choose between the air cooled spindle or Aspire software, which would it be? I can afford one right now but not both.


Aspire will make you money quickly... the router noise is temporary and you can upgrade to a spindle when you get through some projects... 

Or so thats what I think.. But than again, you can make lots of stuff with out the 3 D design capabilities of Aspire.. Gosh I hate making decisions. 

i have two machines with Routers and have burned up one in 12 months...... I am thinking a spindle is next on the list..


Interesting discussion here.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

If you plan to do 3D carvings then i recommend you get Aspire first. If you are not planning to do 3D carvings then buy a spindle and VCarve Pro, it will cost the same or less than Aspire. If later you want to do 3D CNC you can upgrade to Aspire for the difference in cost.

Bill


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Guess it boils down to choice and priorities. You're gonna get em both anyway. It's just a matter of which one is first.

Just remember you'll need 220 for a spindle.

HJ


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

HonestJohn, that is the only area in this whole venture that I've got covered, I'm an electrician. I already have the stock list made up to add a subpanel, and run out 7-20 amp/120 volt receptacles, and 3-20amp/220 volt receptacles. The thought occurred to me, if I'm having this much fun planning the shop, I can't imagine how much fun I'm gonna have in the shop. Artie


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

artman60 said:


> HonestJohn, that is the only area in this whole venture that I've got covered, I'm an electrician. I already have the stock list made up to add a subpanel, and run out 7-20 amp/120 volt receptacles, and 3-20amp/220 volt receptacles. The thought occurred to me, if I'm having this much fun planning the shop, I can't imagine how much fun I'm gonna have in the shop. Artie


IF you get hooked on this, then there won't be nuff spare time to do what you'll want to. It's actually fun once you get the basics out of the way and lose your fear of the thing, especially the computer part. It can be frustrating to be sure, but the designing actually is kinda cool, too.

I had a couple problems with my machine at first, but after we got that straightened out, messing around with Cut2d that came with it for a few days you don't realize how it felt (but you will) to see this little 3.5 x 8" little sign get cut. Then it was just a little more at a time and I HAD to upgrade to Aspire. Check out some of the CNC people's albums, and you can see the progress. If us old codgers set in our old fashioned ways can do it, so can you. And you will meet some great friends on this forum.











A few months later I made this up











HJ


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

That is absolutely beautiful! Other than the black paint did the cnc machine do the rest? Or did it get you to a starting point? I understand that you finished it. Thanks Artie


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I painted the letters, stained, and polyed it. "Nebbie" did everything else. 

Everything was programmed in my "office", put on a UBS stick, plugged into my machine's computer, lined up, and touched off. I just changed her bit once from a 1/8" ball nose that carved everything to a V-bit for the lettering.

HJ


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

I can see where this could get addicting real quickly. I'm hoping I get a shop set up. Artie


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## weber (Oct 3, 2011)

I would vote for a electric spindle such as a Perske and Vcarve 8 desktop edition which would cost $350.00 for the software, 
Desktop edition will do projects up to 24" x 24" I think and has 3d models that come with it, can do 3d work and Vcarving. It will not do the 3d modeling that Aspire can, but starting off I do not think you will need it right away. I have Aspire and it is a great program and well worth the money, but I upgraded from Vcarve after learning a lot from Vcarve. I have 2 routers one has a Perske spindle and one has a Bosh Colt router, the difference in noise and cutting ability is quite a lot. Anyways thats my vote....Good luck

Glenn


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

I'm halfway through my bathroom remodel, and the hvac system replacement is on hold while the lawyers figure out the snag in refinancing my mortgage ( for the better, not refinancing to buy cnc machine). If the refinancing goes through, I will be buying a cnc machine. If the refi doesn't work, we'll be walking from the property and buying a new place, this will involve spending the money for my cnc machine  If logic prevails, after a month of researching I've kinda got a new selection of machine's I'm trying to make a decision on. Probotix Meteor/Nebula, Shopsabre 23 desktop model, CAMaster Stinger 1. All of these offer an aircooled spindle, at least as an option. Depending on the lawyers answers, I may still be able to keep dreaming.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

artman60 said:


> I'm halfway through my bathroom remodel, and the hvac system replacement is on hold while the lawyers figure out the snag in refinancing my mortgage ( for the better, not refinancing to buy cnc machine). If the refinancing goes through, I will be buying a cnc machine. If the refi doesn't work, we'll be walking from the property and buying a new place, this will involve spending the money for my cnc machine  If logic prevails, after a month of researching I've kinda got a new selection of machine's I'm trying to make a decision on. Probotix Meteor/Nebula, Shopsabre 23 desktop model, CAMaster Stinger 1. All of these offer an aircooled spindle, at least as an option. Depending on the lawyers answers, I may still be able to keep dreaming.


Artie IMO as long as we can keep dreaming that's the important part . I am also determined to get a cnc router , but have to insulate my garage first . How I hate priorities 

I'm not rich by any means , but my company shares that I contribute too every pay check adds up in a hurry . Hopefully this coming summer I'll have my 4'/4' cnc router table running . 
@John , that's good to know that a spindle requires 220V , as I'll make sure I make provisions for that location .
Artie from what I've researched I'm pretty sure the Probotix is a great value , but I'm going a differant direction with a kit from cncrouterparts.com that you have to build yourself . I'm liking the idea of assembling it myself , as I think it may help future trouble shooting when it arrises and give me a better understanding of how they work . But I sure like the support these guys give if a person goes with the Probotix , as 4D knows them inside and out . 
Good luck with your future cnc . Looking forward to seeing pics once it arrives


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Just cause you're going to get a machine like Scott's doesn't mean your work will look like his. lol

Besides, you got to put it together and get all the parts to work together ------ which will take you how long???? Think insulation project.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Rick,
> 
> Just cause you're going to get a machine like Scott's doesn't mean your work will look like his. lol
> 
> ...


Yes I'm not the quickest to get things done . Just trying to stay positive here lol 

And as for matching Scotts work , well that ain't gonna happen cause he's in a league of his own .
John , you definately made me rethink things when you mentioned the table width . I'm thinking 4' wide would be an asset at times . I'm almost debating to store my laser engraver a a friend's place to make room for a 4'/8' table .
How I wish I had more room sometimes


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Like I said a few months ago when this all started. If you can get all the parts for a 4 x 8 table and then just start with a 4 x 4 til you get going, then add the other 4' when and if needed - - you might have a win win there. No way am I going to get a 4 x 8 table in my basement unless I build it there and live there til the end - then let the kids earn their inheritance.

HJ


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