# What am I missing from my table...



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

The recent thread re: Incra 17 and 25 has me wondering (again) what it is am missing in my table...

I've got about 3 1/2 inches of fence travel and have not found it lacking...I think about having 25" and wonder what I haven't run into yet. Not knocking the Incra fence...just wondering what I'm missing.

To those who have purchased the 17 or 25 what made you do it...? What do you route that needs that kind of space...? I'm having a tough time getting past half the size of the bit...the only thing I can think of is an inside profile on an assembled frame but wouldn't a bearing take care of that...? Or for box joints I don't use the fence at all...

I get the part about repeatability but what does the distance provide...? This question lurks in my mind for every post re the Incra systems...

Thank you in advance...

Nick


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I purchased my ls25 used,it was a great deal.the travel comes into play for me when I do dovetails using the Incra.Most other operations,a few inches or so of travel is all I use.
Never needed more than seven inches of travel myself,,doing deep drawers.I suppose if you were using the Incra ti dovetail a hope chest maybe
I know there are other ways,but I like the Incra and would not be without it,although I have wished there was a six inch version


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I should clarify,I have used the Incra fence farter than stated from the bit,but not used the travel over that great of a span,if that makes sense


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

So far as I'm concerned a basic table with a tall fence is all that is needed for perfect work. The more bells and whistles that are added the more chance of errors. I base this on lots of practical experience.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

harrysin said:


> So far as I'm concerned a basic table with a tall fence is all that is needed for perfect work. The more bells and whistles that are added the more chance of errors. I base this on lots of practical experience.


I am curious,Harry,have you used a Incra ls ? Especially for doing dovetails or box joints?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Harry I never thought of a huge arse fence to do vertical routings. Beats having to have all the intricacies of a table that flips I suppose


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I watched craigslist looking for INCRA. I bought one for the precision and ease of use not for the travel.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

al m said:


> I am curious,Harry,have you used a Incra ls ? Especially for doing dovetails or box joints?


No but I have watched many live demonstrations. I have a couple of dovetail jigs and a couple of OakPark spacer jigs for box joints of which I've made heaps of trinket and jewellery boxes many of which are photo-shoots in my uploads. I've certainly no objection to Incra fences, but they are not a necessity because a basic fence really is all that is necessary.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

harrysin said:


> No but I have watched many live demonstrations. I have a couple of dovetail jigs and a couple of OakPark spacer jigs for box joints of which I've made heaps of trinket and jewellery boxes many of which are photo-shoots in my uploads. I've certainly no objection to Incra fences, but they are not a necessity because a basic fence really is all that is necessary.


Thanks Harry
Just wondering because of the wording of your first response.i find the Incra very easy to use, only its looks is intimidating.like most tools,it's a want not need thing.Most of what we do can be done with more basic tools,but things like the Incra,router lifts,muscle chucks etc can make set up a bit easier and enjoyable for some of us
All boils down to personal preference,in my opinion
As far as cost,if you added up the basic fence plus dovetail jigs,not huge differance


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm always reminded of Bob and Rick from the Router Workshop show who C-clamped their fence to the table and made "fine adjustments" with a claw hammer.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I too was curious and bought a used incra off Craigslist. For that matter I have tried about every idea that's been advocated. FOR ME the incra was to much set up for jobs a simple jig would get the same results. I now have three tables with tall fences Two I use c clamps to position the fence 
It all boils down to different strokes different folks


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I'm always reminded of Bob and Rick from the Router Workshop show who C-clamped their fence to the table and made "fine adjustments" with a claw hammer.


I confess,my first set up,about 25 or 30 years ago,was a slab of 3/4 phenolic with a mastercraft router bolted under it and a 4x4 piece of maple clamped on for a fence.
Built my entire kitchen, staircases and railings ,tables in my living room and more,in the first year I had it
Served me well for about fifteen years
As I get closer to those golden years,I do things for pleasure,at a slower pace,no because I can't afford to have it done,as was the case when I was younger


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

al m said:


> Thanks Harry
> Just wondering because of the wording of your first response.i find the Incra very easy to use, only its looks is intimidating.like most tools,it's a want not need thing.Most of what we do can be done with more basic tools,but things like the Incra,router lifts,muscle chucks etc can make set up a bit easier and enjoyable for some of us
> All boils down to personal preference,in my opinion
> As far as cost,if you added up the basic fence plus dovetail jigs,not huge differance


Al, this reminds me of my days in the esoteric end of the Hi-Fi industry, people would regularly tell me what equipment they had andask what I thought of it. My standard answer, which for some reason surprised the person was " are YOU happy with the sound"? to which the usual answer with a surprised look on their face was "yes" to which I would reply, you sir are the one who has to be pleased, and you are, if I said that it was a terrible system would you change it? End of conversation.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Harry I never thought of a huge arse fence to do vertical routings. Beats having to have all the intricacies of a table that flips I suppose


till the length of the material gets to be too much....
then you'll consider a horizontal router....


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Doesn't that prove my point. I'm a little more sophisticated than that in as much as my simple fence doesn't need clamps BUT, I do from time to time use a mallet for fine adjustment!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

There you go Al, some bells or whistles can be nice BUT definitely not essential. Hopefully newcomers to the forum with little spare cash will have realised by now that a router table can be knocked together for little cost and give excellent results.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Al, this reminds me of my days in the esoteric end of the Hi-Fi industry, people would regularly tell me what equipment they had andask what I thought of it. My standard answer, which for some reason surprised the person was " are YOU happy with the sound"? to which the usual answer with a surprised look on their face was "yes" to which I would reply, you sir are the one who has to be pleased, and you are, if I said that it was a terrible system would you change it? End of conversation.


Agreed
We all must be happy with what we use,thou shall not Coventry thy neighbours router table
Btw
I still have the stereo I bought as a teen,25 blistering watts of old school Harmon kardon ,b&w,dual and dennon
Watched friends buy more and more watts and blinking lights trying to achieve better sound
It still gets used daily and now the kids are buying vinyl!


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> There you go Al, some bells or whistles can be nice BUT definitely not essential. Hopefully newcomers to the forum with little spare cash will have realised by now that a router table can be knocked together for little cost and give excellent results.


When I was unsure of what I wanted as a router table, I "temporarily" cut a hole in a piece of plywood, fastened the router base to the bottom and clamped the whole thing to the bench. A piece of melamine covered particleboard with a notch in it for a fence, clamped to the "table" can be adjusted with a tap of a hammer when needed.

My "for now" table has been upgrade since by fastening it to a three sided plywood box with a dedicated base attached. I bought a decent vacuum recently to be used as general purpose and possibly part of a dust collection effort. Dust collection being very important has me focused in that direction currently.

I think I sometimes envy those with the roomy shops and the right equipment but it's never enough to motivate me too strongly. Wishful thinking for the most part as I get on with what I want to do.

I'm getting around here to agreeing with the above quote. Just because a person doesn't have the "right" equipment shouldn't stop them from getting on with it.
Where there's a will, there's a way. Just get started, you'll love it.


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

I have been woodworking for 50+ years and have many different router table setups ranging from my self made really basic tables and fences, portable router tables and router cabinets that are staying put.

I currently have two Incra router fence and router lift systems and I can say they are the best and most accurate that I have ever owned and used. 

Sure, you can accomplish almost anything with the most basic home made router table setup and I have made and used several over the years. I do, however really like the quality, precision and ease of repeatable setup that the Incra provides. 

I use an analogy and compare it to when I first started working on wood boats many years ago and bought my first used pickup truck. It was old and wobbly but it got the me where I was going...but it sure doesn't compare to the new van I bought this past May


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

thomas1389 said:


> When I was unsure of what I wanted as a router table, I "temporarily" cut a hole in a piece of plywood, fastened the router base to the bottom and clamped the whole thing to the bench. A piece of melamine covered particleboard with a notch in it for a fence, clamped to the "table" can be adjusted with a tap of a hammer when needed.


And like a lot of the rest of us I'll bet when you figured out that that very basic setup was doing pretty much everything you needed it to the newer better table got put off and put off some more, etc.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Awrighty, then...I think I got it.

It appears nobody bought the 17 or 25 for the travel distance...all seem to have bought it for the accuracy in/and repeatability while others just 'cuz...

You have all helped me put this question away...as Al put it best...wish they made a six inch model...

Thank you all...Happy New Year (and safe, of course)


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I'm always reminded of Bob and Rick from the Router Workshop show who C-clamped their fence to the table and made "fine adjustments" with a claw hammer.


Yeah, and just a couple of the jigs they sold would pay for the INCRA! That's why I have an INCRA and _NO_ Oak Park stuff!

Really enjoyed the Router Workshop, though.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

al m said:


> Agreed
> We all must be happy with what we use,thou shall not Coventry thy neighbours router table
> Btw
> I still have the stereo I bought as a teen,25 blistering watts of old school Harmon kardon ,b&w,dual and dennon
> ...


Al, I have been a service agent for ALL those brands and in fact I did ALL the warranty work for the Australian importer of Bower and Wilkins speakers from England.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Al, I have been a service agent for ALL those brands and in fact I did ALL the warranty work for the Australian importer of Bower and Wilkins speakers from England.


Interesting
None of my equipment has ever need service in all these years,speakers are v202 and sill sound great,small package with big sound
May need a cartridge soon for the dual,been about fifteen year since I changed it and just hope they are still avaliable
The denon is a cassette deck and admit I haven't turned it on in a couple years or more


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Should add ,about the stereo,the place I bought from had a trade up program,bring it back with in three years,100 percent of the purchase price went towards a new one so did that a couple times,may have been in my twenties when the one I have now came along


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I certainly couldn't have survived on what I earned maintaining any of that equipment. Fortunately private work was the main stay of my business which eventually changed to VCR's only for more than fifteen years 'till my retirement in 2000.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> And like a lot of the rest of us I'll bet when you figured out that that very basic setup was doing pretty much everything you needed it to the newer better table got put off and put off some more, etc.


That's right! I can do with what I have but I still think I'd like something with all the bells and whistles, just to have. Long ago.as a kid in a big family (12 of us) I was always taught to ask myself.. "do I want it, or do I need it". Most often, I just wanted it. I can't shake that same thinking to this day, as old as I am and as financially comfortable as I am. I am not at all knocking those with the good stuff. I'd like the good stuff too but I would have to justify it's purchase in some way other than "I wanted it". That's just me. Gee whiz, I'm starting to pour my guts out to strangers. You see what this forum does.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

thomas1389 said:


> That's right! I can do with what I have but I still think I'd like something with all the bells and whistles, just to have. Long ago.as a kid in a big family (12 of us) I was always taught to ask myself.. "do I want it, or do I need it". Most often, I just wanted it. I can't shake that same thinking to this day, as old as I am and as financially comfortable as I am. I am not at all knocking those with the good stuff. I'd like the good stuff too but I would have to justify it's purchase in some way other than "I wanted it". That's just me. Gee whiz, I'm starting to pour my guts out to strangers. You see what this forum does.


Thomas...we're not really strangers...the forum is filled with friends that haven't met yet 

Odd how there's a lot out there that think the same way...even though we let ourselves get away with it from time to time 

Happy New Year...Nick


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Nick--i can't fully agree...i'm definitely Stranger!!

There were 8 of us kids, but i had no idea that other people lived differently. Now that i can "afford" some of the nicer stuff, i still scrounge for it and even in those rare cases i buy something brand new--i could almost sell it right away and break even. What i really came to grips with this year is that i'll never be a top-notch woodworker (though i can and do make some nice stuff), but despite that i get a lot of satisfaction from it, and it definitely clears my mind at the end of a stressful day at the office.

And--even more than woodworking itself, i also get great pleasure from the hunt, acquisition, and now swapping of tools. I'm pretty sure that at some point i'll cross the line into restoration of a piece or two and i'll slip even further into the "bowels of the shop". And i LIKE it!!

Obligatory on-topic comment...if your table does what you need and you are happy with its form and function, you're not missing a thing. If you need or want to add an additional feature or gizmo, do it--but do it to satisfy yourself and your work, especially if it's a hobby. Enjoy!!!
earl


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> Nick--i can't fully agree...i'm definitely Stranger!!
> 
> There were 8 of us kids, but i had no idea that other people lived differently. Now that i can "afford" some of the nicer stuff, i still scrounge for it and even in those rare cases i buy something brand new--i could almost sell it right away and break even. What i really came to grips with this year is that i'll never be a top-notch woodworker (though i can and do make some nice stuff), but despite that i get a lot of satisfaction from it, and it definitely clears my mind at the end of a stressful day at the office.
> 
> ...


Spot on, Earl...I couldn't agree more...as I read posts about tables I realize I don't have the same issues...I have the Bosch-built (RA1181) Craftsman Professional table with aluminum top and insert, split fence, miter track, T-track on fence, etc... and have been happy with it. I couldn't grasp what folks did with the other 24 inches or so and now see it's about repeatability and "just want it"... I'm not at that stage yet.

I did pick up an old Darra James 12" table saw that's as old as I am and in better shape that I'm cleaning, checking parts, painting the base and putting it in service. It'll last another as many years, I'm sure...

For me also it's about the journey...I will probably never get to the level of woodworker that some of the boys are on the forum but I'm having fun making sawdust...I have some of the best shavings in the county 

Good chattin'...Happy New Year


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Obligatory on-topic comment...if your table does what you need and you are happy with its form and function, you're not missing a thing. If you need or want to add an additional feature or gizmo, do it--but do it to satisfy yourself and your work, especially if it's a hobby. Enjoy!!!
earl[/QUOTE]

Well said Earl


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## spruitt2800 (Dec 30, 2014)

For most things your travel is quite adequate. The extra length comes into play when you are doing oversize pieces and want the accuracy.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

spruitt2800 said:


> For most things your travel is quite adequate. The extra length comes into play when you are doing oversize pieces and want the accuracy.


Thank you, Steve...I assume you are referring to box joints in big pieces...?


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Nickp said:


> Thomas...we're not really strangers...the forum is filled with friends that haven't met yet
> 
> Odd how there's a lot out there that think the same way...even though we let ourselves get away with it from time to time
> 
> Happy New Year...Nick


Now that's a much better way of looking at it. A Happy New Year to you, Nick, and to all.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Nickp said:


> Thank you, Steve...I assume you are referring to box joints in big pieces...?


Clever!!!


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