# How to stop a ¼" bit from moving up in its collet?



## Daveg (Mar 28, 2010)

Dear all,
I have the older model Triton ½" router in a Triton table. All is good with ½" bits, but I have an upcut ¼" bit that I use in a collet. Regardless of what I do the bit moves upwards in the collet, i.e. starts to cut deeper as soon as I start moving wood through it (collet does not move.). It can move up 3/8" already after 6" of cutting, and it's driving me nuts. I've tightened the chuck hard as I can, used mallets to tighten it, used higher and lower speeds, used different brands of collets, but nothing helps. Haven't tried locktight yet, but will. Anyone had a similar problem, or have any tips? 
Thanks so much, 
Dave


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Sounds like a defective collet - I’d try to get Triton to make good on their reputation and provide you a new one - unless you’ve had this one a good while and it may just be worn out. The last thing you want is any kind of failure that results in a loose tool flying at you! I would desist from using this item until you get to the bottom (pun not intended) of the issue. I feel your frustration, especially with a premium brand...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Is it a true 1/4" shank - 0.25"? What about the collet? Is it possible one is Metric? Measure them and see.

David

PS - head over to the Introduction area and tell us a little about yourself, Dave


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sound more like the bit is undersized. Silly question, but here goes; have you measured the bit shank with a caliper? 
_" ..used different brands of collets, but nothing helps..."_


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Also, as mentioned recently in another post, if there are any burrs or defects on the bit or collet, you may be done with this one. Can’t be anything to interfere with it purpose or you are just taking chances. This also assumes the collet is clean and compressing fully with no sawdust in the cavities, etc. Just being anally imaginative...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

whose bit is it???.. (other than yours)...
try a different bit...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Collets are precision devices, they only tighten a few thousandths from loose to tight. As they age, they can deform slightly, enough to allow for creeping. Generally they just need to be replaced. The older Bosch Colt is said to go through collets so I keep an extra on hand.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up, Tom; I did not know that.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Dave and welcome. I have some 6mm bits and they literally fall into a 1/4" collet so you should be able to tell if it's the wrong size. When you say different collets do you mean reducer bushings? As suggested check the shank size to see how accurate it is. I got a bit once that I couldn't get into a 1/4" collet as it was a few thousandths too big so it's also possible to get one that is a few thou too small which could explain your problem. Don't over tighten the collet nut, that won't likely help and it could do damage. I also wouldn't use loctite. Find the source of the problem instead.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

You might even consider getting a 1/2" shank 1/4" bit if the 1/2" bits work OK.
Herb


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## Daveg (Mar 28, 2010)

*Thank-you all*

Thanks for all the good replies. I did check the shank diameter on that bit and it was ¼". It's a little-used spiral bit of good make. That collet I used was an insert that you drop into the ½" hole to bring it down to ¼" and the problem lay there probably. The confusing thing was that I tried several inserts, but the bit rode up in all of them. I did a search, ages ago now, for Triton metric and alternative sized collets, including writing to Triton without reply, and never found anything, but I should have looked again. The reply by Bstrom prompted me to search again on Ebay and yes, there is a place in the UK selling proper original Triton collets, including ¼" and I bought one, so now I am optimistic that this will solve the problem and I can throw out those inserts. Not only that, they also sell 6mm, 8mm and 12mm collets so that will really expand the choice of bits available. I did in fact try some 3/16" and ¼" bits with a half inch shank, but they just broke off at the base of the cutter after only a few minutes, perhaps due to my tendency to buy cheap garbage from Asia, i guess. Oak and maple was not to their liking. But - hopefully - problem solved and thanks so much for the help. 
Dave


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Dave,

Sorry, I'm late to reply to this.

Does that reducer have one slot or three (one full and two partial)? I found that the ones with just the single slots did not hold my bits well, but the ones with the three slots hold really well, so I tossed the single slot ones. 

Charley


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Glad you found a new collet and let us know if this resolved the issue. Sorry that you got no support from Triton. BTW, welcome aboard Dave.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Welcome to the Router Forums Dave. If you broke the 1/2" shank 1/4" bits within minutes of starting to use them, that brings up the question of overfeeding the bits. That could also cause the 1/4" shank bits to creep from the reducers quicker. You might need to slow down on the rate you are feeding the stock or adjust the depth of cuts you are making. Let the bits do the work, they will last longer.


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Daveg said:


> Thanks for all the good replies. I did check the shank diameter on that bit and it was ¼". It's a little-used spiral bit of good make. That collet I used was an insert that you drop into the ½" hole to bring it down to ¼" and the problem lay there probably. The confusing thing was that I tried several inserts, but the bit rode up in all of them. I did a search, ages ago now, for Triton metric and alternative sized collets, including writing to Triton without reply, and never found anything, but I should have looked again. The reply by Bstrom prompted me to search again on Ebay and yes, there is a place in the UK selling proper original Triton collets, including ¼" and I bought one, so now I am optimistic that this will solve the problem and I can throw out those inserts. Not only that, they also sell 6mm, 8mm and 12mm collets so that will really expand the choice of bits available. I did in fact try some 3/16" and ¼" bits with a half inch shank, but they just broke off at the base of the cutter after only a few minutes, perhaps due to my tendency to buy cheap garbage from Asia, i guess. Oak and maple was not to their liking. But - hopefully - problem solved and thanks so much for the help.
> Dave


Wow! You had to really run around the barnyard to get this resolved, but am sure glad you’re on the right track - new parts is an easy solution. Here in the US, we use 1/4” and 1/2” collets - makes it easy to order bits, which I try to get in a 1/2” shaft whenever possible. Hardwoods like oak can really test a bit so shallow cuts are a necessity to avoid jams - I’ve had my share.

PS: Cheap bits simply dangerous - good ones aren’t that expensive and last a long while under normal use.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I think Mike is on the right track saying that it sounds like you are feeding too fast for the depth of cut. Not all insert bushings are made equal I think. I've seen lots say they had trouble with them. My Hitachi M12V only came with a 1/2" collet and they supplied a 1/2 to 1/4 bushing with the router and I've never had a bit slip once in it. But the M12V collet is also the best I've evr used too which may be a factor. I have quite a few from Lee Valley too for different sizes including metric ones and haven't had a problem with those. I think though if you are using a bushing that it is probably a good idea to re-torque it once it starts getting hot if you are in production mode. That might be why some have had trouble with them. I'm rarely in production mode so that might be why I haven't had issues with them.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Since I am running musclechucks on all my routers, I ordered the reducer collets from them and not had a problem.
Herb


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Herb Stoops said:


> Since I am running musclechucks on all my routers, I ordered the reducer collets from them and not had a problem.
> Herb


Herb - I watched the videos on the Musclechuck website - is minimizing runout using the Musclechuck going to improve tear out with a dovetail jig or running channels for glass in rails and stiles? Or is that not a solution to those issues?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bstrom said:


> Herb - I watched the videos on the Musclechuck website - is minimizing runout using the Musclechuck going to improve tear out with a dovetail jig or running channels for glass in rails and stiles? Or is that not a solution to those issues?


all the muscle chuck does is facilitate bit changing...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bstrom said:


> Herb - I watched the videos on the Musclechuck website - is minimizing runout using the Musclechuck going to improve tear out with a dovetail jig or running channels for glass in rails and stiles? Or is that not a solution to those issues?


a quality sharp bit and climb cutting will minimize tearout..
not the muscle chuck...


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> a quality sharp bit and climb cutting will minimize tearout..
> not the muscle chuck...


How does climb cutting apply to using a dovetail jig? Besides a good backer board and sharp bit, you’re at the mercy of the wood, huh?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bstrom said:


> How does climb cutting apply to using a dovetail jig? Besides a good backer board and sharp bit, you’re at the mercy of the wood, huh?


go to the 20 minute mark..

.


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## Ohmmeter (Oct 16, 2011)

Daveg said:


> Dear all,
> I have the older model Triton ½" router in a Triton table. All is good with ½" bits, but I have an upcut ¼" bit that I use in a collet. Regardless of what I do the bit moves upwards in the collet, i.e. starts to cut deeper as soon as I start moving wood through it (collet does not move.). It can move up 3/8" already after 6" of cutting, and it's driving me nuts. I've tightened the chuck hard as I can, used mallets to tighten it, used higher and lower speeds, used different brands of collets, but nothing helps. Haven't tried locktight yet, but will. Anyone had a similar problem, or have any tips?
> Thanks so much,
> Dave


Make sure router bit is the same diameter for the whole length of the bit in the collet. Do not sink the bit all the way down into the collet but leave the bit sticking up an 1/8" from the bottom of the collet to allow for bit heat expansion. Make sure not to tighen down on the flare taper of the bit near the cutting edge when tightening the bit in the collet. Set the depth of cut more more than 1/4" on each pass or sometime the bit will ride up from the force of the cutting action in too deep of a cut. Good Luck! Handymanbill


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## nedmoore (Nov 27, 2008)

I have had that happen with my Triton. I had the bit migrate a couple times.
But one day the 1/4" shank bit came out - and flew across the garage.
. . . and it can only have the Grace of God that it did not head my way.
I solved the problem easily.
A. I do not ever, ever try a 1/4" bit in the Triton.
Nothing I tried made any difference.
B. I now put the 1/4" shank bits in the Porter-Cable router.

I have a bullet that came into my airplane cockpit one day in 1967 . . . 
There are just some things it is better not to try twice.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Bill and Ned; welcome, guys!


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## chindits (Mar 21, 2011)

I thought this was a common known problem with triton. I didn’t know about it until I was routing my rail and stiles for a panel after spending a fair amount of time getting my mortise and tenons spot on. Frustrating and scary at the same time as you have a spiral bit moving up the collet. I went to an aftermarket collet and it helped. It’s a 4 point collet. Maybe eagle but don’t really recall brand. It definitely should be a triton recall item.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Ian; welcome! Your screen name immediately caught my attention, any connection...
Chindits, Special Force, Burma, 1942-1944 ...?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I see Musclechuck has collets for the old style Triton (#8) and the new style (#11) https://www.musclechuck.com/compatibility/# That would solve your problem with holding 1/4" bits. The Musclechuck holds 4 times better than any standard collet and is easier to change bits with, especially for table routing. I went to one for my Hitachi M12V2 which I have in my table. I was having problems with bits getting stuck in the collet which is the same as the Bosch 1617 and many DeWalts. No issues since using the MC.


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## barnum349 (Aug 3, 2009)

I purchased a Triton Router along with my Sommerfeld Fence probably 10 years ago. It worked fine with ½ bits, but ¼" bits were hit and miss as far creeping up. Most bits would only move a millimeter or so, but every carbide spiral bit I tried pulled up before I could complete a dovetail. Sommerfeld send me 2 new collets and neither of them made a bit of difference. It was like a screw backing out. I returned the router for credit and bought a Bosch. That solved the problem.


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

I’m just a bit aghast at all these revelations of collet cholera - thus far I’ve had no issues with my 1617 but it may still be pretty young compared to y’all’s gear, especially that Triton debacle. Looks like a MC is the only real solution...I stand forewarned.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Nick; welcome! 
Where are you posting from?


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## Daveg (Mar 28, 2010)

*Thanks to all for everything*

Hello all.
You have helped me a lot, much more than I could have hoped for, and I have learned a lot, so thank-you very much. I now know about Muscle Chucks, which I had never heard of before. And that others have experienced the same problem as me. Had I not ordered a new chuck from the UK, I might have gone with the muscle chuck, and may still do so, but I'll try out the new Triton chuck first. I am not even sure it will fit, because my Triton is the old one from before the crash, so we shall see. And yes, I need to go slower with these narrow bits. My insert is the multi-channel one, the one that came with the machine, and not a single slot, but still no go. I tried it again today, feeding the wood so slowly I had to whistle to stop nodding off, but no luck. It's interesting that some of you others also had the problem especially with spiral bits. So - learned a lot. This current project is a set of foot pedals (32) for an organ, and they need a narrow slot in the bottom to fit a spring. Because I had already kitted them out with felt, I couldn't use a circular saw, so I was a bit stressed, but in fact solved the problem by laying the pedals on their side and cutting a slot with a biscuit bit. And as requested I'll go and introduce myself to on the other page. I'm Australian, but currently in Norway. I bought the router gear from the UK to get the half inch gear, the choice of bits, and prices, in the US are so superior to over here. Usually I buy from Price-cutter/Eagle. I've made mostly music-related stuff, like spinet, harps, pedal boards for organs etc. 
Thanks and cheers, 
Dave


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## RiovistaAndy (Feb 20, 2019)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I think Mike is on the right track saying that it sounds like you are feeding too fast for the depth of cut. Not all insert bushings are made equal I think. I've seen lots say they had trouble with them. My Hitachi M12V only came with a 1/2" collet and they supplied a 1/2 to 1/4 bushing with the router and I've never had a bit slip once in it. But the M12V collet is also the best I've evr used too which may be a factor. I have quite a few from Lee Valley too for different sizes including metric ones and haven't had a problem with those. I think though if you are using a bushing that it is probably a good idea to re-torque it once it starts getting hot if you are in production mode. That might be why some have had trouble with them. I'm rarely in production mode so that might be why I haven't had issues with them.


This is a problem I had that I solved the same way. I retighten it as soon as I think it has warmed up. The first time I did this I was surprised at how much the chuck had loosened up. It does make for an increased effort to loosen it up if I let it cool before I remove the bit. But worth it in Safety


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