# I-box recommended bit type



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

Ok, maybe I made a bad mistake buying the Incra I-box and hinge crafter etc. My decision to buy was based on the presumption I could make typical box joints, center keyed box joints, dazzling splined box joints as well as wooden hinges. I cannot use the ibox on my bosch table saw, as I can not get the blade at a perfect 90 degrees. What should I expect with a construction site portable model designed for frame carpentry and not cabinet work? Ihave made some so-so looking box joints on my router table using straight CT bits. I needed a longer cutting length bit so off to the store to purchase one. I had previously contacted Incra techs to inquire about using spiral up cut bits with the jig. A reply came after I decided to buy a spiral up cut bit for use on the jig.

While at the store, I asked the sales person if a spiral up cut would work on the I-box jig, not yet having a reply to Incra tech question. The store sales person said he had used them on other box joint jigs, so I bought a solid carbide spiral up cut bit.
Tonight I received a reply from Incra stating that Incra does not recommend using spiral up cut bits. He added that he did not know why. So, maybe somebody here can tell me why I cannot use a spiral up cut router bit, even if I make certain that none of the cutting edges will touch any part of the jig. :help: LLM


----------



## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

almost there said:


> .....I cannot use the ibox on my bosch table saw, as I can not get the blade at a perfect 90 degrees.....


Is this because the degree readout is 'vague'? Try an angle gauge, a small electronics box with digital readout. This lays on the table bed and you zero it. Then use it's magnetic base on the blade and check for a 90 degree read out.


----------



## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

Yours is an interesting issue as 5 years ago I purchased the equivalent JET and had a similar issue. Any table-saw, bench-top, construction or otherwise has to be able to have accurate 90 and 45 degree settings. I did check mine with a digital cube but found that a basic plastic 30/60/90 6" angle did better as you never know if the cube is holding at a perfect 90 degrees to the table, on the blade. In the end I opened up the unit and found the trunnion movement rod to be wielded in the wrong place creating a torsion bar arrangement. The manufacturer took it back and allowed me to make a major upgrade for the cost of shipping. Yours may be as simple as a out of calibration display but you will not know this until you check it against a known. On a general note I have had great difficulty using pre-made jigs on construction size equipment. 

Hope this helps - Baker


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Richard, is there no way to adjust the stops on the Jet or the Bosch that Lee has? I haven't had that problem with any of the smaller saws I've had so I can't remember if they have them and the Unisaw I know does have those adjustments on the trunnion rod. My Uni was sticking if I moved it tight against a stop so I opened them up so that I had a little room left at the ends.


----------



## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

There has to be some way to set the blade to a perfect 90 to the table. If not what good is the saw for anything other than cutting firewood? I can not imagine anyone and especially Bosh making a saw without a way to set it at 90. I never trust the reading of the gauge the saw has I always use a square to check and set the blade.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Get a Wixey angle gauge. Two buttons. Zero it out while it sits on the table (magnets hold it down), the put it on the blade and adjust it until it reads 90 exactly. That made all the difference on setting my previous Delta contractor saw. Got perfect cuts after that.

The up spiral bit often causes tear out because it is pulling the wood fiber out of the cut. Down spiral is the opposite so produces a cleaner cut. 

I also can't imagine that you can't make a perfect 90 on a Bosch saw. It is top of the line for that class of machine. I will say that I love my Laguna fusion saw. For 110 v it has sufficient power and it is extremely precise and a beyond spec flat table.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lee; don't assume anything. Check every component associated with the movement of the saw arbor and adjustment mechanism. With the best of intentions, the Bosch Engineers may have introduced a fault into the design. That was my discovery re a thread I had put up here about 6 months ago concerning a brand new Bosch circ. saw. I bought it strictly for breaking down plywood in the shop; but it wouldn't go to a precise 90deg.
It was a deliberate 'blip' in the quadrant casting that was interfering with the locking screw post. Just filed it off, after letting the Cust.Service folks know...didn't want to void my warranty, and maybe prevent frustration on the part of others.

In the pic, it's the silver washer hitting the mini-triangular casting at the locking lever base. (_I realize we're talking about different tools but the 'philosophy' is the same._)


----------



## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Richard, is there no way to adjust the stops on the Jet or the Bosch that Lee has? I haven't had that problem with any of the smaller saws I've had so I can't remember if they have them and the Unisaw I know does have those adjustments on the trunnion rod. My Uni was sticking if I moved it tight against a stop so I opened them up so that I had a little room left at the ends.


I can not speak for the Bosch other than to say it appears to be better than the Jet and should have adjustable stops. The Jet "bench-top series" *are *a deplorable piece of Buffalo droppings and completely unworthy of the Jet name, starting with the next jump in cost. I know why they think they must compete at the lower level but 40 years of engineering, sales, marketing and leadership have taught me otherwise.

I repaired the Jet by grinding away the misplaced wield and adding a thrust washer, beveled spring washer and stop collar. I then gave it away to a deserving group where it still functions as specified, though not built. I did the same with a 10" band-saw and 12" drill. All where replaced with high end Jet/Wilton equipment for the cost of shipping. Jet has some of the best customer service I have ever used, including the ones I started for industrial manufacturers; just do not buy the low end. This is a statement that applies to most equipment irregardless of name. Bosch, does not have a low-end under the Bosch name and to the best of my knowledge the construction unit is the table saw of record and appears to be every-bit as durable as the DeWalt Job-site unit. 

The problem appears to be what type of mechanism is used to angle the 1 piece motor/arbor assembly vs the separate arbor and belt to motor (trunnion assembly) of the next level up - if the unit is cheap enough, then no adjustments and the manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer each make ~ 30% net margin. When I sold custom equipment to Bosch they wanted a reasonable price but more-so required 24/7 operation without failure, they advised me that this is what they give to customers and only expect the same in return. As a note Bosch supplies about 25% of the disk brake units in North America, how many recalls of disk brakes have you seen in the last 5 years?

Now that I wasted everyone's time on my soap-box, I apologize, there must be stops on the Bosch unit but unlike a pro saw these can only be accessed from the bottom up, so turn the unit upside down, look at the schematic and see what is and is not adjustable. Only solution I know of - the Jet had to have the plastic case removed (oh joy)

Hope I helped and good luck - Baker


----------



## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> Get a Wixey angle gauge. Two buttons. Zero it out while it sits on the table (magnets hold it down), the put it on the blade and adjust it until it reads 90 exactly. That made all the difference on setting my previous Delta contractor saw. Got perfect cuts after that.
> 
> The up spiral bit often causes tear out because it is pulling the wood fiber out of the cut. Down spiral is the opposite so produces a cleaner cut.
> 
> I also can't imagine that you can't make a perfect 90 on a Bosch saw. It is top of the line for that class of machine. I will say that I love my Laguna fusion saw. For 110 v it has sufficient power and it is extremely precise and a beyond spec flat table.


I am a little down on the digital gauge for checking 90/45/30 degree settings on a table saw for a simple reason. You can zero to the table but unless you position it so the blade cannot rotate then the reading will be off. I have several thousand dollars worth of laser alignment equipment left from a previous employer and still find the basic $2.00 plastic angle ( or a machinist square ) to provide a go / no go decision. The wixey and other brands are good and I have them and use them, but for the table saw and band saw the triangle is quick, easy and proof positive. I do wish I had a Laguna to add to my collection - good luck Baker


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

I used a wixey angle guage


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

Tom, I have a wixey digital guage. that is how I know the blade is either at 89.5 or 90.5 degrees with just slight adjustment


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

rwbaker said:


> a deplorable piece of Buffalo droppings
> 
> Jet has some of the best customer service I have ever used, including the ones I started for industrial manufacturers; just do not buy the low end. This is a statement that applies to most equipment irregardless of name.


Richard I had to leave the comment about Buffalo droppings in the quote, I liked that. The same can be said about many equipment manufacturer's equipment. Delta's cheapest equipment is more buffalo droppings.


----------



## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

When digital levels first appeared they had a +/- tolerance that I found to be unacceptable. Judging by the posts today many believe in their accuracy. Has anyone flipped their guage to the opposing blade side to verify the 90? Apologizing for hi-jacking the thread.


----------



## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

almost there said:


> I cannot use the ibox on my bosch table saw, as I can not get the blade at a perfect 90 degrees.


I have and use the Bosch 4100 saw and love it !
Are you having trouble getting your blade 90 degrees to the table OR the miter slot?
I have adjusted both over the years and don't understand your problem. And, best of all, both these adjustments are easy and can be done from the top. The number one reason I bought my Bosch in the first place.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

The Wixey must be setting at real close to 90º on the blade or the reading will be off.


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

as a matter of fact yes, I moved the wixey 2 button digital gauge to both sides of the blade for my 90 setting and my 45 setting. The 45 setting in my opinion was good enough. it was off .5 degrees on front and dead on opposite side. BUT when box joints were cut on the table saw, the two board could not be connected.


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

I am not financially able to buy a better table saw. I am hoping to master box joints with the I-box on my router table. I will if I have to, buy a Rockler box joint jig for $80 for making wooden hinges. My question at the end of my original post is, why does Incra recommend using only straight bits on this jig- Incra tech said they do not recommend using spiral bit with this jig, but added he did not know why.
rockler jig--> http://assets.rockler.com/media/cat...3525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/9/29502-23-1000.jpg
rockler jig video--> http://img.youtube.com/vi/-aqv3oCBNVs/0.jpg


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

Thanks to all for advice on use of the jig with my TABLE SAW. My Bosch ts blade is now set at perfect 90 degrees, as well as perfect 45 degrees. The miter slider had to be doctored with pieces of slick tape on one side of the bar, opposite of the disc side and the orientation of the slots in the discs does make a difference. I was able to get no looseness in the miter track with easy sliding of the jig. I cut some supposive 3/8 inch box joints using the center keyed method with Freud box joint blades put together so that both faces of the blades were together. (when both faces are outside, the cut is 1/4 inch.) The actual size of my supposive 3/8 inch cut was 13/64 and the result was more or less evenly spaced similar sized pins and tails or positive and negative boxes. The fit was tight. ( sometimes the tightness can be remedied by lightly filing each pin). This jigs works best on a table saw, as the blade pulls evenly and downward on the cut, whereas the router bit has a tendency to pull the board into the bit, even with tight even pressure on the hand screw clamp. (advancing the jig very slowly into the router bit helps-I always use CT bits).
I wonder if Forrest box joint blades do about the same regarding trueness to size? wondering if I should buy and try a dedicated dado set for more accurate cuts?
*The original question was about using the jig on my router table and I wanted to know why Incra does not recommend using up cut spiral bits. This was touched on by one or more repliers. Whiteside tech told me the RU4900 3/8 inch solid carbide, up cut spiral bit on a 1/2 inch shank is a slightly smaller than 3/8 inch, but they did not see why I could not use the that bit with the I-box.
I am annoyed that with this jig, making box joints is a trial and error proposition requiring new boards each time. So now I am using cheaper Aspen lumber. And I am concerned that these cuts will not fit my Incra hinge crafter for drilling the hole for the rod that holds the two pieces of the hinge together. I may have to use another jig to make hinges pins, or use the router table and different method of clamping.
During my research for a jig to cut box joints, I discovered the Leigh dovetail jigs-that e-bush can be adjusted to make the same board cuts pins and tails looser-don't have to waste so much lumber, but that jig is 4+ times as much and I would need to buy an additional template for about $200 and that jig is designed for making dove tail cuts. So I guess one should not complain about results when one opts to go the less expensive route.


----------



## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

oops I stated: "The actual size of my supposive 3/8 inch cut was 13/64 and the result was more or less evenly spaced similar sized pins and tails or positive and negative boxes..." wrong fraction! should have been 13/32 inch and not 13/64. So the cut was 1/32 larger than 3/8 inch, which resulted in a not so much look alike center keyed fit.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Lee,

I have both the I-box and the hinge crafter jigs. I also have the Freud box joint blades. You are correct, the Freud box joint blades do not cut exact sized 1/4 and 3/8" box joints as you have discovered. I have also found this problem. If you are only making box joints the pins and space only need to be the same to make good joints, so this dimensional problem is never seen. Whenever I use the I-box jig to make hinge joints I add dado blade shims between my box joint blades to get them to cut the exact dimension that I need to properly fit the Hinge Crafter jig or I use my Freud adjustable dado blade set to do the same. You will discover that different woods will require slightly different box joint cut widths to produce perfect fitting hinges, so having the Freud box joint blade set made to exactly cut 1/4 or 3/8" may actually create more problems for you than it solves. I prefer to just add the dado blade shims between the blades to get the exact fit that I want. Have you contacted Incra about this problem? It would be interesting to hear their solution or suggested work around for this. I just used the shims because I had them and have used them for fine tuning dado blade widths for years.

My dado blade shims came from Peach Tree Woodworking Woodworking tools, supplies, plans, accessories and more - ptreeusa.com. The shims are stock number 2311 and their present catalog lists them for $12.99 US. They will let you adjust your box joint width in .004" increments to get exactly the fit that you want.

Charley


----------

