# Wood Finishing



## Marvingee (Nov 9, 2012)

I have read and agree that woodworking is a three stage process--design, building and finishing.
Although I have more to learn than I already know about the first two. I'm temporarily satisfied with my results. Finishing however seems to be an elusive and moving target. Oil stains, water stains. gel stains, tung oils, polyurethane, polyacrylic, lacquer, varnish and 200 more etc's. This is not even considering the various differences in manufacturers as well as methods of application

One (of many) of the youtube videos I have viewed started with a water spray to minimize the penetration of the following water based stain application. The next step was two different coats of gel stain which was then followed by five coats of sprayed lacquer. Sanding in between all. The finish was very professional, but time, space, equipment and conditions prevent my duplicating that kind of process.

My goal is to arrive at a fairly standard and simple combination of ingredients to suit most indoor furniture applications with as close to a professional finish as possible.

Many of you may have gone through this process already and I am reaching out to your experience and look forward to your help.

Thanks and be well,

Marvin


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Marvingee said:


> I have read and agree that woodworking is a three stage process--design, building and finishing.
> Although I have more to learn than I already know about the first two. I'm temporarily satisfied with my results. Finishing however seems to be an elusive and moving target. Oil stains, water stains. gel stains, tung oils, polyurethane, polyacrylic, lacquer, varnish and 200 more etc's. This is not even considering the various differences in manufacturers as well as methods of application
> 
> One (of many) of the youtube videos I have viewed started with a water spray to minimize the penetration of the following water based stain application. The next step was two different coats of gel stain which was then followed by five coats of sprayed lacquer. Sanding in between all. The finish was very professional, but time, space, equipment and conditions prevent my duplicating that kind of process.
> ...


Marvin,
I am faced with the same problem and I suspect that there are many other members of this forum that are in the same boat. Right now I have no suggestions that will rememdy the problem, but I am pretty sure that woodworkers that do there work as a commercial interprise do not spend hours and hours with the finishing process. Time being money would dictate, or so it seems to me, that having a quick as well a satisfactory finish on their projects is a must for the sake of profit.

Years ago I had a custom rifle built by a well know gunsmith. The finish on the wood was excellent and when I asked him about how much time it took him to do the finish work, he just sort of laughted and told me that he could not afford to spend much time on fiinsh work for the reason mentioned above. He told me what his procedure was, it was simple and it worked well for him. I won't repeat the process here as I have done so earlier on this forum but it underscores what I have said earlier in this post about time.

I'm a little embarrassed to say what I am doing right now. I explained it once and was quickly tagged as a very very ignorant novice on the subject which I readily admit to, but for now what I am doing works for me and as time goes by I will learn more, but I can not wait until I am an accomplished finisher before completing my projects. I like you Marvin, hope that you get some advise on your question, I, and others, will certainly be watching for the posts that will follow on the subject.

Jerry


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Marvin, one simple method that works well is to use Watco Danish Oil. You flood this on the surface and let it soak in for a few minutes, apply a second coat and after a few more minutes wipe it off. This will give a soft finish that looks like it is hand rubbed. It will penetrate into the wood a bit and protect it for many applications. If you are using it on a table top let it dry for a week and then apply a coat or two of polyurethane to build up a tough finish. Watco Danish Oil is available clear (which gives a slightly yellow hue to the project) or with different tints like cherry, oak and walnut. This is one of the easiest methods and will make you proud on your first try. It helps to apply the finish to a test piece of the same type of wood your project will be built from so you can see how it will turn out before you commit on using it. This is the first method I worked with.


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## Woodshaper67 (Jan 13, 2012)

Marvin,
There real is no one way to apply finishes and what I mean by that is you ask 10 woodworkers how to get low luster finish on a dinning room table and you will more than likly get 8 different answers.I have been doing this around 30 years and I still see some go ideas from other woodworkers that I have started using.One sugestion I can make is find out what you have available to you where you live ,is it Minwax, Old Master etc.
The best thing I can tell you right now is the prep work is the most important thing because bad prep work will give you a finish the you won't be happy with. 
Woodsmith shop has a great video to help you understand the differant finishes. Go to woodsmith.com.


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## rrj (Jan 16, 2012)

Marvin,

Best advice I can give you is to join forums on finishing as this is a router forum and the advice here, is good, is best for router questions. Try these forums.
Furniture Refinishing & Antique Restoration
Homestead Finishing Products :: Portal
Target Coatings, Inc. :: Index


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

Give you a hint - start with shellac, finish sanding, grain raising, resanding and etc. Then move to bare wood and waxes, bare wood and oil finishes and etc. Now you move to all the other things you mentioned - the finish is dictated by the piece, the wood and the knowledge of the craftsman, not the perverse, gotta spend more money advertising that tells you what you need. Remember the best furniture from 300~400 years ago did not have any of the modern finishes that we have today.

Good luck - Baker

PS = try pure Tung oil - the results can be great, it is easy and it dries hard


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I agree with Richard but would take it one step farther. Stay with shellac unless the item is to get heavy use or be subjected to moisture. Shellac is almost mistake free. It drys very quickly and once fully cured can be rubbed to a beautiful soft or shinny finish. You can use it indoors and either brush or spray it on. You won't get that plastic look that you get with other products.


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## thebookman (Nov 24, 2011)

You may want to try the new water based rustoleum line of stains and poly. I just finished a couple of items and was extremely impressed with the results. No prep needed for the stain and no sanding in between


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## stgard (Apr 30, 2012)

*wood finishing*

I use Sam Maloof to finish indoor furniture, its a bit pricey, but I really like the end product. Its easy to rub on , I use at least three coats and sometimes then the wax-polish coat. I have no plans to use anything else. The only time when I dont , is if kids are going to be giving it a rough go. Then use poly.


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## friendly1too (Sep 25, 2004)

I have begun to use dye rather than stain for color, and I'll never go back.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> He told me what his procedure was, it was simple and it worked well for him. I won't repeat the process here as I have done so earlier on this forum but it underscores what I have said earlier in this post about time.


Well, I for one wish you did repeat it. I've got three rifle stocks that need stripping, then refinishing. It's been 40 or 50 years since I did any stripping, so finding a stripper that won't eat my skin off is a hassle in itself. It's been as long since I've refinished a stock also. They've got so much stuff out there now I have been researching the crap out of it, and still not found anything I have been willing to try. You can PM me if you like, but I'd like to know the process. Thanks.


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## Marvingee (Nov 9, 2012)

Hello Again and Thank You

While I realize that although we are not a "Wood Finishing Forum", we all rout and woodwork and sooner or later we have all "Finished" that which we have created and have shared experiences. It was not my intention to divert from the purpose of this forum but thanks rrj---good advice-- and will reach out to other forums as well.

It was my intention however to take advantage of the helpful attitude of the members.

I have tried Gel Stain from General Finishes and am very pleased with the result. Routed edges do not darken as much a oil stains and the application is simple with minimum of wood preparation as it does not penetrate into the grain quite as much as regular oil based and helps avoid blotching. I was never very good at this and I appreciate it's forgiving nature.

So, a sanded (about 180 grit), clean base plus two coats of Gel Stain with a little steel wool between and I'm all set to final finish.

I've also yet to try Tung Oil. 

The Sam Maloof products do look intersesting and might give that a "go" as well.

Shellac, as Rich and Art has suggested leaves a very nice finish. Very professional looking. After reading their responses, I tried some clear shellac. While satisfied with the result, I found it very fast drying and problematic. I wasn't very good at it. If nothing else works, I'll probably get back to it and suffer through the learning curve. 

Some time ago, I purchased a matte polyacrylic finish which worked great over a painted surface. I'm going to try that next. Indications are that if you allow the oil based stain ample drying time, it should not be a problem. Also, will try thinned polyurethane satin finish.

I continue to look forward to your responses.

Again, thank you all for sharing and I'll post again.

Marvin


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

A little wipe down with mineral spirits after prep will give you an idea what the piece will look like after finishing without raising grain. It can also ID imperfections that need more prep work that might not show up otherwise.

GCG


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## Marvingee (Nov 9, 2012)

Hello again.

Update to my previous dilemma on wood finishing.
I have found the following to provide a very satisfactory result -and, just as important, repeatable and simple enough. 

1, Prepare the wood with a 120 to 180 finish.
2, I used two samples, One hard wood (Ash) and one soft (Pine).
The Pine required a sanding sealer which managed to eliminate some of the "Blotching"
3, Applied two coats of Gel Stain, allowing each to set about 5 minutes before wiping off.
I allowed a day and a very fine sanding ( the flexible sponge-like material) between coats.
4, After another day of drying I applied two coats of satin Polyacrylic, also allowing a day and a
fine sand between coats.

Future work will only be in the harder woods. I found the softer to scratch and "Ding "which only really became obvious after the stain application. The ultimate finish was also better.

I also tried a 50/50 Polyurethane finish. The Poplyacrylic leveled easier with a synthetic brush, without the odor and much easier cleanup. It also didn't seem to look quite as plastic.

Thank you all for your suggestions.
I hope to continue to add to the Forum as I learn. 
It's doubtful however, I will be able to offer as much as I have received---

Be well,
Marvin


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

A simple and reliable process is as follows - 

1. Sand to 220 or 320 depending on appearance. You want a very smooth, blemish-free surface.
2. Light mist with water to raise the grain. Sand with 400 grit to smooth.
3. Apply one coat of shellac as a sealer. Lightly sand. Repeat.
4. Apply stain if desired. Preferably not Minwax.
5. Adjust stain by selectively touching up where and if necessary.
6. Apply poly finish. Wipe-on poly is by far the easiest and best choice IMHO.

Always test the process on a scrap before trying it on your finished piece. Good luck.


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## Webwizzkid (Oct 28, 2012)

*Commercial Wood Finishing*

Hi Marvin
I read your comments with great interest as I wish to turn one of my products into a commercial manufacturing business. A prototype has been made by a craftsman company BUT the finishing is proving to be a problem. I have replicated your method and many others over the past 3 years. I have come to the conclusion that powdered wood stains, such as Perla, can be mixed into a water based varnish. This gives you the desired colour and the first coat also seals the wood, in our case we are using beech. To do this mix a small amount of the powder stain in about 20ml of warm water. When dissolved add this to the water based varnish. If you warm a little varnish you can add the stain to varnishes which are of the polyurethane types. By staining with your own stain varnish for the first coat you achieve three steps in one:- Raising the wood fibres, sealing the wood and achieving the correct colour. After this lightly sand down with 230 grit paper and give two coats of lacquer or varnish as per manufacturers specifications. Three coats gives an almost perfect finish providing you sand with 1000 or 1200 grit paper and use a tack rag in between sanding. This method is all well and good, it is faster than the method you describe because of the first application BUT it is not a commercial technique where one may be manufacturing 500 or 1,000 + items. This is where we encounter problems!!!
Spraying seems to be the answer on a commercial basis especially as it is faster and the spray can reach hidden crevises and corners. I would like to know how do they do it???? By this I mean give a high quality, satin finish, which is smooth, even and perfect in appearance, and with no marks or blemishes. AND HOW DO THEY DO IT COMMERCIALLY. If anyone knows how to do it, please, please, please let me know.
We are about to construct a commercial spraying area in the carpenters factory to eliminate dust and give perfect drying conditions. This is all well and good but we need answers to what type of lacquer or stain we need to do the job commercially. Maybe products are first dipped, we just don't know!!! All we want is a perfect finish to Beech.
As you say there is a multitude of aspects to take into account especially with so many finishing products on the market and so many manufacturer's different specifications. In the end it must be relatively easy as almost everything is finished to such a high standard AND many products sell at very low prices. Hand finishing is slow, time consuming and certainly not commercial.
I look forward to help from anyone who has had the same problem as we are encountering just now.
Regards to all
Michael :help::'(



Marvingee said:


> I have read and agree that woodworking is a three stage process--design, building and finishing.
> Although I have more to learn than I already know about the first two. I'm temporarily satisfied with my results. Finishing however seems to be an elusive and moving target. Oil stains, water stains. gel stains, tung oils, polyurethane, polyacrylic, lacquer, varnish and 200 more etc's. This is not even considering the various differences in manufacturers as well as methods of application
> 
> One (of many) of the youtube videos I have viewed started with a water spray to minimize the penetration of the following water based stain application. The next step was two different coats of gel stain which was then followed by five coats of sprayed lacquer. Sanding in between all. The finish was very professional, but time, space, equipment and conditions prevent my duplicating that kind of process.
> ...


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## GrahamUK (Aug 13, 2009)

*Wax finish*



Marvingee said:


> I have read and agree that woodworking is a three stage process--design, building and finishing.
> Although I have more to learn than I already know about the first two. I'm temporarily satisfied with my results. Finishing however seems to be an elusive and moving target. Oil stains, water stains. gel stains, tung oils, polyurethane, polyacrylic, lacquer, varnish and 200 more etc's. This is not even considering the various differences in manufacturers as well as methods of application
> 
> One (of many) of the youtube videos I have viewed started with a water spray to minimize the penetration of the following water based stain application. The next step was two different coats of gel stain which was then followed by five coats of sprayed lacquer. Sanding in between all. The finish was very professional, but time, space, equipment and conditions prevent my duplicating that kind of process.
> ...


I have found a wax finish is very good for indoor projects.

For my latest project I sanded the timber to a very smooth finish gading the paper to 320. Wipe the surface over with white spirit and imediatly apply a very thin coat of good quality wood varnish. I use a satin finish.

When dry sand again with very fine sandpaper wipe over again with white spirit and apply a good quality wax with a lint free cloth and buff in the direction of grain. If needed a more coats may be applied, but I have found 2 is ample and gives a prfessional finish without loosing the fineness of the timber.

Hope this helps.

Graham


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