# Jerry's latest observation on accurate cross cuts



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Before I get into this post I would like to ask if anybody has had the problem of spending some time writing a new post and then suddenly accidently stricking the wrong key and losing the whole thing. At this point I do not know what key I hit to lose my work. Slometimes I just give up and forget it and other times I start all over as I am going to do this time. It sure is frustratrating. Is this something that anybody else has experienced?

Anyway, this post is about my most recent observation about consistant cross cuts on the table saw. I have about 3,000 feet of crown molding that was given to me so I use it for my testing. I take a piece of the molding and cut it into two to three feet lengths on the radial arm saw and then cut it into about four inch pieces on the table saw and then with dial calipers I check how much the cuts very in length. I make six consecetive cuts without moving the fence, one right after the other. I have tried two different blades a Forrest cross cut blade and a Freud Fusion thin kerf combination blade. I tried varying the pressure applied to the fence during the cuts from a light kiss to very hard pressure. For the most part I alway got about the same results which were that four or five of the parts would be plus or minue about .010" but there would always be one or two that were near ,030" shorter than the others.

My latestl experiment was to advance the fence about a quarter of an inch closer to the 
blade and then re cut one of the sets of six cuts. Those six new cuts varied by only
.001" plus or minus. This test will have to be be repeated aeveral times and if I get the same results I will have to try to understand why the cuts from the longer pieces of molding are not as consistant as the cuts on the short pieces. Right now I am thinking that it might have to do with stress in the wood being released as has been suggested by others on the forum. I know that such things as this are boring to most folk but might be of interest so a few members, at least I hope so.

Jerry
C City, Colorado, TX


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Before I get into this post I would like to ask if anybody has had the problem of spending some time writing a new post and then suddenly accidently stricking the wrong key and losing the whole thing. At this point I do not know what key I hit to lose my work. Slometimes I just give up and forget it and other times I start all over as I am going to do this time. It sure is frustratrating. Is this something that anybody else has experienced?
> 
> Anyway, this post is about my most recent observation about consistant cross cuts on the table saw. I have about 3,000 feet of crown molding that was given to me so I use it for my testing. I take a piece of the molding and cut it into two to three feet lengths on the radial arm saw and then cut it into about four inch pieces on the table saw and then with dial calipers I check how much the cuts very in length. I make six consecetive cuts without moving the fence, one right after the other. I have tried two different blades a Forrest cross cut blade and a Freud Fusion thin kerf combination blade. I tried varying the pressure applied to the fence during the cuts from a light kiss to very hard pressure. For the most part I alway got about the same results which were that four or five of the parts would be plus or minue about .010" but there would always be one or two that were near ,030" shorter than the others.
> 
> ...


Yes, I have lost posts before posting them-- Frustrating, but figure the first was good practice in organizing what I really wanted to say.

So let me picture this- You are using a rip fence (albiet Incra) to cross-cut 4" pieces of stock. The cut is across about 2.5 inch to 4 inches in length, which would be the un-named width of your crown moulding... 

So how are you feeding it? Freehand with the short edge against the rip fence, supported using a miter fence or using a crosscut sled? 

If freehand, trying to hold a short edge of the piece square against the rip fence to do a crosscut, any tilt or lift from that fence of the leading or trailing corner will give you that variance and be un-square. That is assuming that the first cut was square. Any cut after that, using the same long piece of stock, would multiply coming off-square. If this is what you are doing and only being off 0.010 to 0.030", with your skill level, you are doing real well.

If that was with using a miter fence, use a miter fence extension that you can extend to just off the blade (zero-clearance). For that short a piece clamp the work to the fence while making the cut. Also insure that the miter bar is snug in the miter slot.

The most accurate cross-cut cut you're going to get with that kind of stock is going to be with a cross-cut sled.

It's not in your fence. At least not with that Light of stock. The fence locks down right? It doesn't move out of adjustment while cutting? And with that light of stock, I'm`not thinking there is any "fence flex." That was one of my previous concerns with that kind of fence system WITH heavy stock and having the fence extended out too far. I do sturdy industrial style fences for that. Or a fence that locks both front and rear of the table. But like I said, that's not going on with what you are describing.

I wouldn't think it was your blades. You described what I consider as 2 of the top of the line blades. Even if they were dull (as you worried about in previous posts) you would see it in the cut, smell in and hear it. Even if completely dull with a few missing teeth, you would get tear out and burning- but still get a straight cut at a measured distance. That should be true even with that stock and with those blades turned around backwards. Offhand- Remember on blade height to adjust it so the gullet clears the stock.

Released stress in wood? You see that a lot more in rip cuts than in cross-cuts. Remember me mentioning that I make a cut over sized, then a finish cut? That is why I do that with cabinets and furniture work with solid wood. 

How do I quickly check pieces that are supposed to be the same? Stack the pieces on top of each other and check them.

Jerry- I applaud you... really. "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." I see your practice and experiments as good for working out how to get where you want to be with things. Very good for working up skills. Good on you.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I would use a stop block on the mitre guage or a cross cut sled. 

I would not cross cut long pieces using the rip fence. This is an invitation to serious kickback.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> I would use a stop block on the mitre guage or a cross cut sled.
> 
> I would not cross cut long pieces using the rip fence. This is an invitation to serious kickback.


You are quite right James. Not only is it dangerous but it can damage the saw too. My father in law did that and jammed a piece and the saw never cut the same again. 

There is a safe way to do it though. You clamp a block on the fence at the edge of the saw table and add the thickness of the block to the length you want. As soon as the piece clears the block you have a space at the end that allows the cutoff room to fall away from the blade.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> I would use a stop block on the mitre guage or a cross cut sled.
> 
> I would not cross cut long pieces using the rip fence. This is an invitation to serious kickback.


I think that I may be on to probem but need time to do so more checking. James first of all, I use a miter gauge to hold the long pieces while cutting, does this sound better to you in regard to safety?

Here is what I found most recently. I have two miger gauges, one of them is the Incra V27 and it is attached to the Incra Express sled. The other is the one that came with the saw and has been set or squared and left there. The miter gauge that came with the saw had just a little bit of slop in it. My last test was to push the miter gauge hard toward the fence to take the slop out during the cut. The results were with six cuts shortest was 4.006" and longest was 4.012" maybe I found the problem. Earlier the good cuts were cut without using the miter gauge, ummm...


Jerry


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

that is close enough for the girls i run with


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> There is a safe way to do it though. You clamp a block on the fence at the edge of the saw table and add the thickness of the block to the length you want. As soon as the piece clears the block you have a space at the end that allows the cutoff room to fall away from the blade.


Thanks Charles. I forgot about that technique.

Most accurate would still be with a sled or slider. And a slider is out of most people's reach.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> that is close enough for the girls i run with


LOL. Heck, freehand support against the fence like he did... IMHO That was closer. I give Jerry some props. Jerry has some steady hands.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Do it this way......*

Hi Jerry.

Just a couple of photos to illustrate what we mean. 

PS: the saw was unplugged for these staged photos....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Thanks Charles. I forgot about that technique.
> 
> Most accurate would still be with a sled or slider. And a slider is out of most people's reach.


I agree with the sled. I couldn't do without mine anymore and it is the safest method of all IMO and just as accurate as a good chop saw. But the method James was kind enough to post pictures of is a good standby method that works well if you need pieces that are longer than your sled is wide or if you haven't gotten around to building a sled.

We've gotten a little off track on Jerry's thread but when it is about safety, hopefully it's excusable. I think Jerry is on the right track with what he's trying to accomplish. When you do a machining operation and get poor results you should analyze what went wrong and eventually develop a technique or make tool adjustments that will give reliable results every time you do it again.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

O.K. Charles, James and Mike, you three guys are on the same page that I'm on and I sure do appreciate your input.

Just to be certain you we all know where I started as far the procedure that I started with. Yes, the stock is pieces of crown molding cut into approximately 30" pieces. With rip fence set at about four inches from the blade I would put the end of one of the pieces of molding against the fence and then support the long end that was on the left side of the blade with the miter gauge that came with the saw. It has been set to be about as square as I can get it,the Incra V27 miter gauge is attached to the Incra Express sled. O.K. with the saw turned on I hold the work piece firmly in place against the miter gauge with my left hanc and with my right hand, actually my fingers, I firmly hold the work piece that is in contact with the fence firmly against the fence. I am sure that you will probably wince at how close to the blade I am getting my fingers to the blade, I assure you that I have to keep my wits with me at this point and I do not suggest that anybody else attempt this but I need to tell you what I did. 

This procedure is the one that produced very consistant cuts most of the time but not everytimd. One or two of six pieces would be long by about .060". Then after advancin the fence slightly I would recut the work pieces holding the short pieces with my fingers only and not using the miter gauge. That procedure produced good cuts, all plus or minus about .004".

Next I went to sled as suggested with out better results until I used the hold down fixture snd really screwed it down tight and applied presssure to the sled to keep it hard again the miter slot with every cut. This produced consistantly consistant cuts. When I attempted to hold the work piece against the stop on the sled and did with a great deal of strength, the accuracy went away, again about .060", I think that the blade was pulling the work piece toward the blade in spite of my attempt to hold it in place. I will tell you that while doing these tests that I defy anybody to, with their fingers, be able to detect the difference in two parts when the difference in their length is as much as six to eight thoudths. I'm sure that any experienced wood worker already knows this. 

I will say that I was surprised that the use of the sled was as poor as it was unless the hold down is employed, but it is what iti is supposed to do so you sure can't blame the manufacturer I would suggest that if you are using a sled and if you are peticular, you need to know about the value of the hold down.

Hope to hear back from those of you that read this and have any input for me.

Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry, you may have a good hold on the free piece but, as James suggested, if the piece binds, the blade may try and toss it and it could drag your hand into the blade. And it will happen too fast for you to be able to stop it. Try rigging up as James posted pictures of and this will give you a reasonable margin of safety. Also, the fact that there is no clearance between your fence and your cutoff and the blade may be the source of the discrepancies.

As Mike and I both mentioned, we like using sleds on our saws. Mine is a piece of 5/8" ply with a hardwood strip for the miter slot that I fitted pretty snug. Being right handed, I run it on the right hand side of the blade. I found that if I put my hand just slightly to the right of the miter slot and my thumb on the slot or just to the left I get excellent results. If my hand is too far to the right I get some binding and sometimes an irregular cut. It can be something that simple.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Jerry, you may have a good hold on the free piece but, as James suggested, if the piece binds, the blade may try and toss it and it could drag your hand into the blade. And it will happen too fast for you to be able to stop it. Try rigging up as James posted pictures of and this will give you a reasonable margin of safety. Also, the fact that there is no clearance between your fence and your cutoff and the blade may be the source of the discrepancies.
> 
> As Mike and I both mentioned, we like using sleds on our saws. Mine is a piece of 5/8" ply with a hardwood strip for the miter slot that I fitted pretty snug. Being right handed, I run it on the right hand side of the blade. I found that if I put my hand just slightly to the right of the miter slot and my thumb on the slot or just to the left I get excellent results. If my hand is too far to the right I get some binding and sometimes an irregular cut. It can be something that simple.


Charles, if nothing else comes out all of this writing, earning of the danger that I have been exposing my fingers is well worth it, I will be using the sled for cross cutting from now on and hopefully keep all of my fingers, Thanks for the warning, I do understand what you are telling me.

I am going to have to do research with the sled, right now I am not happy with the cuts that I am getting unless I use the hold fixture, it is not all that convenient to use, but if it is the only thing that will work I will use it. Charles, do you use a hold down with the sled that have described above? Also, what kind of accuracy are you getting with the sled?

Jerry


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

"Next I went to sled as suggested with out better results until I used the hold down fixture snd really screwed it down tight and applied presssure to the sled to keep it hard again the miter slot with every cut. "

Can you please post a photo of your sled? You should not have to "keep it hard against the mitre slot" if the runners in the mitre grooves are the correct size.

Take a look at this video to see how to build a simple and safe table saw sled.

Make a table saw sled for your wood shop - YouTube

You will still require a stop block to ensure equal repetitive cuts........

One of the advantages from watching youTube I find, is that there is always someone who has done what you are trying to do.

I was cutting the runners for my two new sleds today and was making changes to the rip fence by 0.0015 as show on youtube using a digital caliper.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

Guys, if you suddenly hit a random key that deletes all your work, don't panic. All you have to do is hold down the *Control Key* then the *Z* key. That is the keyboard shortcut to the Windows "undo" function, which will undo your last action and likely restore what was just wiped from your screen. Even better news, Windows has multiple levels of "undo" so you can press *Control + Z* several times to undo a number of previous steps. And for more good news, *Control + Y* is "redo" in case you go one step too far.

I didn't read the entire thread, so if this was already covered I apologize in advance.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Stan Draughon said:


> Guys, if you suddenly hit a random key that deletes all your work, don't panic. All you have to do is hold down the *Control Key* then the *Z* key. That is the keyboard shortcut to the Windows "undo" function, which will undo your last action and likely restore what was just wiped from your screen. Even better news, Windows has multiple levels of "undo" so you can press *Control + Z* several times to undo a number of previous steps. And for more good news, *Control + Y* is "redo" in case you go one step too far.
> 
> I didn't read the entire thread, so if this was already covered I apologize in advance.


It was not covered, Stan. Thanks for that hint for Jerry.

I guess we were too busy helping Jerry with his wood working issues...

Sometimes, slow and steady is required. I used to work with a person who I mentored and I would pretend to hit her knuckles with a ruler if she acted too quickly and could not remember what she did to cause the error. After 10 years, we still laugh about it. ( but she did learn.).


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Before I get into this post I would like to ask if anybody has had the problem of spending some time writing a new post and then suddenly accidently stricking the wrong key and losing the whole thing. At this point I do not know what key I hit to lose my work. Slometimes I just give up and forget it and other times I start all over as I am going to do this time. It sure is frustratrating. Is this something that anybody else has experienced?


Jerry, I'm in IT and I learnt many years ago to never trust the web server you are posting to. So many different things happen between you pressing the *go* button and seeing the page refresh.

In the future, if your posting is say more than two lines, before hitting the *submit* button, press _ctrl+a_ to select all the text, then open up notepad and press _ctrl+v_ to paste. You will then have a copy just in case the server bombs out on you. If it's a particularly lengthy post, then use the same procedure to *backup* regularly.

I use this method for _any_ online form submission.

Hope this helps.

PS. You can assign Notepad to either the 'Taskbar' or to the 'Start Menu' in Windows 7 which makes finding it a lot easier.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

You obviously have found the same key that my keyboard has. As soon as I find out which one it is I wwill superglue it.


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## thammons (Mar 26, 2012)

*losing all the text just typed in an email*



Jerry Bowen said:


> Before I get into this post I would like to ask if anybody has had the problem of spending some time writing a new post and then suddenly accidently stricking the wrong key and losing the whole thing. At this point I do not know what key I hit to lose my work. Slometimes I just give up and forget it and other times I start all over as I am going to do this time. It sure is frustratrating. Is this something that anybody else has experienced?
> 
> Anyway, this post is about my most recent observation about consistant cross cuts on the table saw. I have about 3,000 feet of crown molding that was given to me so I use it for my testing. I take a piece of the molding and cut it into two to three feet lengths on the radial arm saw and then cut it into about four inch pieces on the table saw and then with dial calipers I check how much the cuts very in length. I make six consecetive cuts without moving the fence, one right after the other. I have tried two different blades a Forrest cross cut blade and a Freud Fusion thin kerf combination blade. I tried varying the pressure applied to the fence during the cuts from a light kiss to very hard pressure. For the most part I alway got about the same results which were that four or five of the parts would be plus or minue about .010" but there would always be one or two that were near ,030" shorter than the others.
> 
> ...


I too occasionally lost all that I'd typed into an email and was frustrated. For me, the mechanism was that hitting Ctrl+X is a shortcut for erasing everything and somehow I hit that occasionally, perhaps because I was trying to do Shift plus X or C and hit the wrong things. Anyway, the solution was to use the "keyconfig" function in the browser I was using to get rid of that shortcut or of all shortcuts. It took me several hours to figure that out and find out how to do the keyconfig fix so if you wish I can try to find that info for you. Let me know.
Terry


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Most accurate would still be with a sled or slider. And a slider is out of most people's reach.


Jerry

I seem to march to a different beat on this one..... In the absence of a true slider (and even then) to my mind the most accurate and repeatable approach is to actually use a cross cut saw (radial arrm saw, SCMS, mitre saw, etc) mounte_d_ in a long table ans used in conjunction with a length stop. The problems of going to a table saw are down to getting the sled (if any) to run at right angles to the blade, avoiding trapping by using a stop block or short-position (European-style) rip fence. Setting a crosscut saw to cut at right angles is relativelty simple and quick. 

In the days when I ran my own shop and we had a 3.2 metre (10 ft) slider almost all trim and moulding pieces were cut to length on a crosscut saw. My experience of working with and for other firms over the years is that this is pretty much standard practice.

The clue to function might be in the tool names - the table saw is really a derivation of the _rip_ saw - and the cross cut saw speaks for itself. Or maybe I'm missing the something?

Regards

Phil


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> "Next I went to sled as suggested with out better results until I used the hold down fixture snd really screwed it down tight and applied presssure to the sled to keep it hard again the miter slot with every cut. "
> 
> Can you please post a photo of your sled? You should not have to "keep it hard against the mitre slot" if the runners in the mitre grooves are the correct size.
> 
> ...



James,
The sled is Incra's Express Sled and can be seen at their web site, I will post photo of my set up later in the day.

Due to the fact that I so much like the accuracy of the Incra system in regard to setting the fence at a desired distance from the blade, what do you think of after setting the rip fence at the point that you want to make the cross cut, and then start the cut and after cutting part way into work piece, release the fence move it away from the work piece and finish the cut. Of course the miter gauge has be used to keep the work piece from moving and keeping it square with the blade, just a thought that I'm throwing out for the heck of it.

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Jerry
> 
> I seem to march to a different beat on this one..... In the absence of a true slider (and even then) to my mind the most accurate and repeatable approach is to actually use a cross cut saw (radial arrm saw, SCMS, mitre saw, etc) mounten in a long table ans used in conjunction with a length stop. The problems of going to a table saw are down to getting the sled (if any) to run at right angles to the blade, avoiding trapping by using a stop block or short-position (European-style) rip fence. Setting a crosscut saw to cut at right angles is relativelty simple and quick.
> 
> ...


Phil- 

Off point, but what does "mounten" mean? I think I understand the context , but couldn't look up the meaning. I apologize. We both speak English, but some dialect gets me.

I agree. Like we have said, we both use an SCMS more than any other tool on a jobsite. Use the right tool for what it does best.

On the other side of that, Jerry is practicing cuts and trying to get accurate at them. I can remember "having " to do that years ago with hand saws... to get an eye to where to place the saw and where the cut would be. Later with power tools on where to place the work in relation to the blade and where the resulting cut would be. Heck, I still make test cuts for profiles in scrap pieces of pine to see how it's going to come out and where it's going to end up... before committing to an expensive piece of hardwood.

The table saw may not be the best tool for a crosscut, but it can be done... Many people do things with a table saw because it can be done and that's what they have. Many shop classes try to teach most everything on a table saw. WE do it as alternate (backup) methods. AND that is his practice. (My experience ->) I'm sure that you have done something with a tool and people have asked you, how did you do that? I never thought about it until asked <> I just did it out of second nature.

On the size of his practice pieces, they are considered a crosscut. That is just semantics. Remembering this is practice, he is working with scrap pieces to make his practice affordable. Being that this is practice, I have to forget that he is using crown molding and that the pieces are small. 

I consider anything longer than 14" (the cut possible on my SCMS) as something I would do on my RAS, but only up to 18". Beyond that, Table saw. On the jobsite, anything longer than 14" goes to my table saw, where you might go to your rail saw. When it gets above 18", it gets fuzzy whether I hold to the semantics of a crosscut or rip cut... there is the consideration of grain, but it's still a cut.

All- "hold hard it against the miter slot" 

I caught that when I first read it, but then got focused on other things. I did mention it too briefly...

If you have to "hold" it to one side of your miter slots, then there is too much slop in your miter bars. On metal bars in higher end fixtures, there is usually an adjustment to take up the slack in the miter bars. Usually it is allen head screws that either rub on the miter slot or turn a disk against the miter slot. If metallic and doesn't have an adjustment, you can take a center punch and make a few divets in the bottom edge, near the side edge of your miter bar, to expend metal into the side edge of the miter bar, then file them to a snug fit. If plastic or wood, then you can put in a small wood screw to expand, then sand to a snug fit. There should not be any noticeable movement, side-to-side in your miter slots. It should be snug (no play), but move freely. Once there, then wax the bars and miter slot.

Being an Incra Sled (a high-end fixture), I would guess that here might be an adjustment for the miter bars.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I am sending a photo of the Incra Express Sled. This morning I experimented with the rip fence and th sled. With fence I set things up just as I had been doing, the dangeriou way, however, this morning I tried making the cut with the rip fence in place but only went half way through the cut. I pulled thr work piece back from the blade keeping it firmly against the miter gauge. Then I released the fence and moved it back and finished the cut. Ater that I reset thee fence and repeated the procedure. I did this three times and the cuts were all within a few thousandth, just great. The repeatability of the Incra system made this possible in that the fence could be reset between cuts.

Next after making a partial cut using the rip fence and the miter gauge set up the sled and used the partial cut to set the stop on the sled, then made three cuts with that setting and the cuts were very excepable, So I think that I have found a way to use the accuracy feature of the system to do my cross cuts.

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am sending a photo of the Incra Express Sled. This morning I experimented with the rip fence and th sled. With fence I set things up just as I had been doing, the dangeriou way, however, this morning I tried making the cut with the rip fence in place but only went half way through the cut. I pulled thr work piece back from the blade keeping it firmly against the miter gauge. Then I released the fence and moved it back and finished the cut. Ater that I reset thee fence and repeated the procedure. I did this three times and the cuts were all within a few thousandth, just great. The repeatability of the Incra system made this possible in that the fence could be reset between cuts.
> 
> Next after making a partial cut using the rip fence and the miter gauge set up the sled and used the partial cut to set the stop on the sled, then made three cuts with that setting and the cuts were very excepable, So I think that I have found a way to use the accuracy feature of the system to do my cross cuts.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry- Look at your Incra Express Sled Owners Manual. Assembly, Step #3 has instructions for "Adjust Utility Plate for Smooth Glide in Your Miter Slot". That will take the play out of the miter bar in your miter slot. All you need is a 3/32" allen wrench.

If you don't have that manual handy:
http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000143AA.pdf


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Jerry- Look at your Incra Express Sled Owners Manual. Assembly, Step #3 has instructions for "Adjust Utility Plate for Smooth Glide in Your Miter Slot". That will take the play out of the miter bar in your miter slot. All you need is a 3/32" allen wrench.
> 
> If you don't have that manual handy:
> http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000143AA.pdf


hey mike - shouldn't you be in training?


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Jerry- Look at your Incra Express Sled Owners Manual. Assembly, Step #3 has instructions for "Adjust Utility Plate for Smooth Glide in Your Miter Slot". That will take the play out of the miter bar in your miter slot. All you need is a 3/32" allen wrench.
> 
> If you don't have that manual handy:
> http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000143AA.pdf


Thanks for the tip, I have already turned that adjustment screws that you are reffering to the point that the allen wrench almost breaks and still have just a very slight amount of play in the miter slot, but I assure you that I really appreciate your attempt to help me and that you have read my post.

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> hey mike - shouldn't you be in training?


Chris- 

Had 2 weeks training of 5 days each week at 12 hour days each day- 60 hours each week. 40 hours overtime on this week's paycheck. 

Now they consider me a trainer(?) on that machine, and expected to train others (LOL). I start a different shift tonight, swing shift, 4pm to 12am, 40 hour weeks.

Don't know if that will be where I stay or if it will be rotating. Next week is supposed to be training on a different machine/area. Tonight surely should be an adventure.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Now they consider me a trainer(?) on that machine, and expected to train others (LOL). I start a different shift tonight, swing shift, 4pm to 12am, 40 hour weeks.


heh, that is what happens when you are a quick learner. the more indispensable you are the better!

cheers


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

> Then I released the fence and moved it back and finished the cut. Ater that I reset thee fence and repeated the procedure. I did this three times and the cuts were all within a few thousandth, just great. The repeatability of the Incra system made this possible in that the fence could be reset between cuts.


Jerry, how can I put this delicately? 

No offence is intended, but you seem hell bent on re-inventing the wheel at every opportunity. 

You came to the forum with a problem and several safe, tried and tested remedies were suggested to you. Instead of using one of these methods, you then go and look to another way to cross cut small pieces of timber.

I, for one, do not like the idea of having to reset your fence, no matter how simple it may seem with any type/brand of fence, for each cut.

For me, you original problem has been solved.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> Jerry, how can I put this delicately?
> 
> No offence is intended, but you seem hell bent on re-inventing the wheel at every opportunity.
> 
> ...


M

James, I'm sorry that I am driving you nuts so to speak. I have always been accused re inventing the wheel so I am used to that being said of me. By now you should know from my posts that I am different from the average bear on this forum. I doubt if anybody has more enjoyment that I with my new found interest and I am sorry that I have annoyed you. 

I won't post anymore threads that might offend anybody, you have not offended me by pointing out my short comings, I'm used to it as I said before. I wonder sometimes if my poor vision contributes to the way I am and all of my life I have had to find what I call work arounds.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Jerry, do not take this as a request not to post any more questions that you may have.

What I suggest is that you look at the responses to find a simple solution to the question and see if the solution offered suits you purpose.

There are many ways to solve a problem and we can only suggest what works for us.

There are many guys/gals on the forum and the combined experience is phenomenal.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Charles, if nothing else comes out all of this writing, earning of the danger that I have been exposing my fingers is well worth it, I will be using the sled for cross cutting from now on and hopefully keep all of my fingers, Thanks for the warning, I do understand what you are telling me.
> 
> I am going to have to do research with the sled, right now I am not happy with the cuts that I am getting unless I use the hold fixture, it is not all that convenient to use, but if it is the only thing that will work I will use it. Charles, do you use a hold down with the sled that have described above? Also, what kind of accuracy are you getting with the sled?
> 
> Jerry


Hi Jerry. My sled is just for 90 deg cuts. I don't bother using a hold down, just hold the piece against the 3/4" high fence at the rear of the sled. I placed the miter guide strip wider that the gap from saw blade to table groove so that the first ever cut trimmed it to the edge of the blade which your picture appears to show for your Incra jig. If I can accurately measure, lining that mark up with the edge of the sled gives accuracy to 1/64 or better. I don't worry about 1000ths, this is woodworking not metal working. As I said before, what you cut accurately today may not stay that way with wood. 
I do clamp a stop block to the fence once in a while. If the piece is longer than my sled I use the fence as James posted pictures of. As Phil pointed out, you can do the same job with a chop saw or SCMS but my sled is always 90 deg without me having to set it. If you do need to cut two long boards the same, as in a window frame, it is just as easy to clamp the boards together and cut both at the same time., in which case an accurate chop saw is better. In this case, they don't need to be incredibly accurate, they just need to be the same.

I did build a crown molding jig sled that I used once. It had a fence that tilted to the correct angle and was angled 45 deg. I had some trouble holding the molding in place while cutting. 80 grit sandpaper glued to the fence solved that problem. While I agree that you want to learn to use your tool to make accurate and reliable cuts whenever you use it but I personally wouldn't worry about a few thousandths of an inch. To me that seems like a dog trying to catch it's own tail. If wood was totally uniform and did not change grain direction and density, maybe. If saw blades didn't flex, maybe. If machinery had absolutely no free play, maybe (but then it wouldn't want to adjust or slide either). At least, that's my opinion.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

My Sled is a RAS


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