# Any experience with Probotix CNC units out there?



## whiskeyjack (Jan 9, 2012)

More curious than serious about these machines. Saw one recently for sale and, being pretty green to routing, thought I'd look into it.

I did some searches on this forum and several other places but most of what I see is about Shark systems. There are a couple of YouTube videos showing Probotix performance but, for the most part, very few CNC reviews out there. (I would've pm'd a couple of you for your opinions but I need 10 posts to do that.)

Thanks for any feedback on Probotix and/or the Fireball V90 specifically.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I own Probotix' Fireball Meteor (25"x50" capacity). Bought it as I needed more capacity than my 3 year old CNC Shark. I don't think Probotix was making complete CNCs three years ago (small kits maybe), and I was also surprised to see these models available when I started looking for a larger CNC. 

My Meteor arrive in a 6'x4'x2' crate. The PC (running LinuxCNC), controller, monitor, keyboard, mouse and joystick (for jogging) were all included. Mine was running within 5 minutes of plugging the last cable in. 

I had one cut go haywire so far, but I'm blaming that on a static discharge to the machine. I'd been following the bit with a shop vac hose. Once I stopped doing that every cut has run fine. 

I use VCarve Pro to create my tool paths, and the Meteor cuts anything I'd previously cut on my Shark. The Meteor is far stiffer though, being primarily out of aluminum while the Shark is mostly plastic. Probotix lets you use just about any router and will provide the necessary mount for it with your order. 

So far I'm a fan. Limit switches and an e-stop button right on the frame. Cable tracks for both the X axis and Y axis cable bundle. My only reservation was the MDF bed as I've got t-track on my Shark. I bought some track and had the Meteor cut slots for it into the MDF. Works pretty well so far. 

Let me know if you have any specific questions about the Meteor. They also make a 25 x 37 Asteroid and the 25 x 25 Comet. They appear happy to put together anything on special order as well, all the way up to 5' x 9' models.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the router forums, 4D
Sounds like you have a nice unit ( enjoy)


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks, Semipro. I haven't challenged my Probotix CNC much since I got it, but it sure is a better value for the money than the CNC Shark I've had for a few years. Of course the Sharks are marked up for sale via Rockler and Probotix sells directly and builds your CNC once ordered. I have a 1.7" thick wood bench top waiting on it and ready to cut when I get the router insert I've ordered to check actual dimensions before committing. 

4D


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## whiskeyjack (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. I'm pretty green to the most basic routing efforts but the Probotix Fireball unit I was looking at seemed impressive. I think he wanted about $700 for it complete. It's sold by now but good to have some first-hand knowledge about this stuff. Thanks again.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Their V90 and X90 models came first, and were kits. Not hard to assemble from what I can tell, and easy to customize with help from Probotix. Their Comet, Asteroid, and Meteor are fully assembled with PC included. Basically plug and play. I like the company so far. They have a facebook page and look to be continually trying new things.


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## Johnan2000 (Jun 8, 2012)

*Own a V90 and love it.*

I bought the unit about 2 years ago. I have the yellow 280oz Nema 23 motors and upgraded the power supply to 40 watts. I assembled the kit and following the Fireball forum advice achieved a fairly square and solid machine.

This is a great machine to learn on. The 1hp Bosch router has enough power to cut pine and spruce at reasonable speeds. I built a three ski reclining sled to run on the frozen river pulled by a 5m power kite. Designed in Vcarve Pro and cut out of 2x4's. Made lightning holes and attach point for cross-dowels, as well as an articulated steering mechanism. I also built a two ski sit-down sled that when I lean left the ski's tilt left (and right), up to the tilt limit slot. Have had this flying along the snow faster than I could ride a bicycle.

Have also done some 3d carving in oak. Trivets, bread searving boards, grandson stool.

Overall I am very pleased with the unit. Yes, it is made of MDF, but that also makes it a little more forgiving on your first mistakes. It can be made to do excellent work if you respect some depth-of-cut and feedrate limitations.

John A.


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## ve3sqb (Nov 7, 2014)

I've run 3 different routers as a tech teacher,and built my own 24 x 36 inch machine before buying a Comet. I won't part with it now. It does everything I ask of it and more including some aluminum cutting. I just added the 4th axis to play with. The only problem I had was the same as 4dthinker had. When following with a vacuum I had static trigger a limit switch. I'm convinced linux is the better program as I had mach3 errors randomly from weak Windows output even after putting the output thru a powered buffer. I saw this on the school machines too. Len is a great guy even though I had trouble getting a hold of him on a couple of times. He was very helpful and took the time to explain everything especially on setting up diy probes and touch off switches .He sells the touch off switches and did not have to help me with the homemade one. 2 thumbs up


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nebula CNC Router - Nebula CNC Router

4D I recently seen your post regarding the Nebula . Looks like a nice size and good value for the price !
The canadian dollar is trading below 80 cents US right now , so it may be a while before I order it


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Nebula CNC Router - Nebula CNC Router
> 
> 4D I recently seen your post regarding the Nebula . Looks like a nice size and good value for the price !
> The canadian dollar is trading below 80 cents US right now , so it may be a while before I order it


We now have a Meteor and a Nebula from Probotix in the university shop I teach in. I'm the resident CNC expert among the furniture design professors and we get plenty of use with both, as well from the CNC Shark HD 2.0 that we started with. I ordered both with internal beams and configured the bed with t-track and so one section could be removed to allow clamping to the center beams for cutting vertically or at any angle. Love the open frame design of their Fireball line. We've been doing tenons, finger joints, dovetails, and any other challenge the creative students come up with that would be impossible using most other CNCs. The under $5000 price lets us purchase without going out to bid, and probotix has been more than happy to customize the machines we've ordered to my specs.

I know their machines inside out now, so throw me any other questions you come up with. 

4D


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## ve3sqb (Nov 7, 2014)

Rainman1 email me and I will give you some info on getting probotix machines into canada if you are interested
[email protected]


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4D I think where things are going to add up quickly is when you start adding in the software , especially seeing as I would like to carve 3D pictures. I could see the price quickly doubling , but there are worse things you could spend 10-15 grand on


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

True. Software, bits, material to cut on and spoil board to use, router/spindle, clamps, etc.. Since we started with a Shark it came with VCarve Pro and Cut3D. Those both have handled 95% of the projects for both the Shark and Probotix Meteor as well as the Nebula and Multicam my college has. We updated to Aspire for 3D and Photo work, although as a furniture design class series rarely have we done any 3D Photo work. 

The CNCs from Probotix come with a CNC running Linux and LinuxCNC for control. I don't know of any software to generate toolpaths that run under Linux though except for a couple that are web based and simplistic. App.easel.com is one. We create cut files on windows PCs then carry them on USB thumb drives to the CNCs.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> The CNCs from Probotix come with a CNC running Linux and LinuxCNC for control. I don't know of any software to generate toolpaths that run under Linux though except for a couple that are web based and simplistic.
> 
> 4D


Uh oh


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## ve3sqb (Nov 7, 2014)

all programs have the option for post processors and linux is one of them. If not, the only difference from a mach3 output I found is adding the spindle speed and feeds to the first couple of lines for linux


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

ve3sqb said:


> all programs have the option for post processors and linux is one of them. If not, the only difference from a mach3 output I found is adding the spindle speed and feeds to the first couple of lines for linux


I think what he meant to say was there are not many CAM packages for Linux. The CAM package generates the G-Code based on the vectors selected, the tool bit and the machining process you choose. 

Most of the popular (easy to use) Cam packages are on Windows OS. Vectric product like V-Carve Pro and Aspire can generate g-code to be used with LinuxCNC. You would need to download the post processor from the Probotix site at http://www.probotix.com/wiki/index.php/Vectric/.

You still end up need a window pc and a Linux Pc.


Bill


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Vectrics product come with post processors for EMC2 which was what LinuxCNC used to be called. Probotix created a new post processor just for the new Tool height sensor they have just introduced though. If you add that $300 feature when you buy from them then you'll need it if you use anything from Vectric.com. It is NOT a tool changer, but lets you save all your tool paths into one file, then when a tool change comes up it stops, moves to where you can change the bit, then moves to a sensor where it checks for the bottom of the new bit. I'd rather have had a touch plate than that feature. Didn't order it with our Nebula. The MDF base had a hole in it for the sensor though.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Probotix also now has a water-cooled Spindle option available for their CNCs. $800ish seems to be the going rate. I hope that includes the pump and tubing, and control of spindle speed through the linuxCNC controller.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Was thinking of going with the Nebula. Questions for you

Can it do 3d "carving?" - - 

Does it have a spindle attachment or can one be bought?

Can it etch or engrave curved glass as in glasses and bowls?

Is the spindle better than using a router? If so - air or water?

Can you use Aspire with it?

Was looking at a Shopbot but there's a lot of extras to buy for it plus it costs a little more for the basic machine. The Nebula comes complete with everything.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

*Yes*



honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> Was thinking of going with the Nebula. Questions for you
> 
> ...


3D Carving? Yes. Only limited by the 5" Z travel limits. As it comes though with MDF on top of the frame, you'll have to remove the top and either mount it to the bottom of the frame or bolt a panel to the underside of the frame to use the full range of the Z travel. 

Yes, they are offering a Water or an Air cooled Spindle. $849 I think for the water version. Check their facebook page. Also will be offering a dust boot as well. 

Never done any etching, but using Aspire you can map any 2D G-code to a 3D surface so it should be possible with a way to hold the piece. 

The Spindle should be better, and water better than Air if you need to run it constantly. I don't have any experience with their spindles yet though. We are using Dewalt's 2.5hp router in them which so far seems to be working fine. 

Yes. We use both VCarve and Aspire to generate G-Code for them.

Just to note, the PC it comes with is running Linux and LinuxCNC as the controller already configured for the machine you buy. You'll need a windows PC to run Aspire or any of Vectrics products on. We have a classroom license for Aspire/Vcarve and and two Win7 PCs available in the shop where the CNCs are. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Talked to Len quite a while this afternoon. Quite impressive! Under $5k for a complete setup using a router. Connect the cables and make dust (sounds easy nuff - lol)

Or $6k sets it up with a spindle and a Rotary. What should I do? I'm not a 12 hr a day operation - just a 1 man (retired) serious hobbiest (til somebody pays me for something) who makes some pretty nice stuff with the basic tools and has to "get with the program." I'm sold on the Nebula with the Rotary - - and leaning toward the air cooled spindle - think I should get it? Also, do I need the $300 bit sensor, or whatever it's called?

He said all the parts in the machine can be bought off the shelf (gotta do a little internet reach I guess) if anything goes haywire with Probotix.

Your input will probably be the final word.

Thanx in advance

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I didn't have much trouble getting up to speed when I encountered my first CNC, but then again I have a background of woodworking. I have been doing tough stuff using hand held and table mounted routers for 30+ years, teach furniture design, and already use CAD software. I've encountered folks who bought a CNC but found everything about using it impossible to grasp, and I've had design students who watch me for 20 minutes then proceed to run our CNCs quite proficiently on their own. 

I can't guarantee you won't have trouble, only that I am delighted by my experience with the two Meteors and new Nebula I have access to. You need to know why they have to be Homed when first turned on. You need to know to Touch-Off each axis. You'll need to have G-Code created somewhere else and a way to get in onto or at least access it from the Linux PC used as a controller. I have a network storage drive, have my Meteor's PC on my home network so it can find any files I've saved there from my Windows PC running VCarve/Aspire. 

The frame is a standard 30mm x 60mm extrusion you can buy more of from Amazon or eightytwenty_dot_net. The corner brackets, t-slot nuts and metric bolts that hold it together are all available. The end and gantry brackets look like custom parts Probotix came up with. The linear rails and bearing are out there to find. The electronics are out there to find, but not something I'd want to have to find. I suspect I could fix my Meteor if something broke. Might have to get someone else to "fix" the controller if it fails and Probotix is out of business.

I didn't order the $300 tool length sensor with the Nebula, as the scenario of using it doesn't fit well with the many users using that machine and diverse way we might have to clamp things to the frame or table. The advantage if you do get it is that you can save all tool paths into one file. The Nebula will stop when it encounters a new tool, move straight over (I don't know where) to a place where you can change the bit, then move to the sensor to sense where the bottom of the new bit is. These two moves, then back to cutting may run through the clamps we use. Since we still have to change the bit for unique tool paths it is not difficult to run each as a separate fine and simply re-zero our Z axis with each one. The scariest thing to happen is when the router heads off in an unexpected direction. 

I'm intrigued by the water and air cooled spindles, but don't "need" either, so probably won't buy one. If I was starting fresh with a new Nebula though I'd consider it. Wait until they have figured out how to control ON/OFF and RPMs from their controller though. 

As for the rotary axis, I have only just gotten the one we have set up, and not cut anything with it yet. We have lathes of course, but don't use them all that much. Not sure if the rotary axis will see much use, but once figured out might be nice to play with. I still don't feel like I need one for my own shop.

Should you get one fully configured? You'll have to answer that. I don't have a wife I need approval from, but the $5k-6k would have been a serious discussion with my two exes. I love taking two steps out to my shop to play with my meteor though, and the versatile frame design has let me cut some otherwise impossible things you can't do with 99% of the other CNCs out there. 

4D


honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> Talked to Len quite a while this afternoon. Quite impressive! Under $5k for a complete setup using a router. Connect the cables and make dust (sounds easy nuff - lol)
> 
> ...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Was all set to pull the trigger on the Nebula today, but then started looking at the sizes. How big of a table do I need to make for the Nebula and Meteor? And what's the ideal height?

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Hi John.

I advise waiting until your Nebula arrives to finalize dimensions on a table for it. I'm 6'1" tall and like my Meteor with its bed height at 45" above the floor. The three CNCs I've built tables for where I work are 40" to the bed. The width of the Nebula is still a good reach across, so make sure you plant it somewhere you can get to both sides. 

The stand I made for the Nebula is Four 4x4 cedar posts, one at each corner. A 1/2" x 1/2" notch on the top edge of each receives the end brackets of the frame. There are holes 1/4" up on the frame ends you can screw through. 3/4 Baltic Birch plywood panels, about 10" wide, stretch between the posts about half way up.

The long length of the Meteor/Nebula is 60" + two thicknesses of 3/4 baltic birch EXACTLY. I recessed the plywood stretchers flush into the posts and the full length of a standard 60" sheets of BB plywood fits perfectly behind the two running left and right.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

I did it! Got a Nebula coming with air cooled spindle and rotary. 

I have a table that I already built about 25 years ago with 3 - 2x4 legs on each side and 2x6 around the edge with 3/4 commercial plywood for a top and 3 - 2x6 cross braces for the top to rest on. It is 36" high (I'm 5'10") so that should put the machine table right around 40" +/-. It measures 48 x 64. Also got to have a 220 plug ready.

I'm hoping that'll work. If not, I'll make something else up. All I can say is I hope the guy that gets my house when I move likes to tinker cause there'll be a lot of workbenches for him ........ or a lot of firewood.

The scary part is learning the computer end. I may be picking your brain some more. Thanx for the help this far.

HJ

This purchase also just cost me a new kitchen !!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> I did it! Got a Nebula coming with air cooled spindle and rotary.
> 
> ...


Congrats John ! 
Very interested in hearing about your experiance and I hope you share it with with us . Lots of pics too


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> The scary part is learning the computer end. I may be picking your brain some more. Thanx for the help this far.
> 
> HJ


Congrats! If you are going with Aspire or VCarve, then the best thing to do is to start watching the tutorial videos Vectric has on their web site: Training Material

With LinuxCNC the one thing my students get surprised by is when powering on or shutting down. Run the software before turning on the controller. Click on the power icon (second from top left) THEN turn on the controller. You'll hear the machine come to life and then be able to control it with the software. 

When shutting down, tap that power icon again BEFORE turning off the controller. The controls on the screen should gray out. Now turn the controller power off and then you can close the LinuxCNC app. If you don't shut down in this order the spindle may turn on when you close the linuxCNC app. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> The scary part is learning the computer end. I may be picking your brain some more. Thanx for the help this far.
> 
> HJ


Congrats! If you are going with Aspire or VCarve, then the best thing to do is to start watching the tutorial videos Vectric has on their web site: Training Material

With LinuxCNC the one thing my students get surprised by is when powering on or shutting down. Run the software before turning on the controller. Click on the power icon (second from top left) THEN turn on the controller. You'll hear the machine come to life and then be able to control it with the software. 

When shutting down, tap that power icon again BEFORE turning off the controller. The controls on the screen should gray out. Now turn the controller power off and then you can close the LinuxCNC app. If you don't shut down in this order the spindle may turn on when you close the linuxCNC app. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4D you've pretty much made a believer out of me too . Wish I had all my ducks in a row as I'd jump on one pretty quick . But it's probably better to wait until my garage is insulated and heated


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> 4D you've pretty much made a believer out of me too . Wish I had all my ducks in a row as I'd jump on one pretty quick . But it's probably better to wait until my garage is insulated and heated


My main shop is in a 40' x 40' garage that has a heater and insulated walls (not doors) but when I had my rear deck rebuilt they found an overground gas pipe (against local codes) they had to remove. So the heater hasn't worked since then. When I got my meteor I repurposed a nice warm well-lit storage room in my basement (previous owner must have used it as a pool table room) as the Meteor's room. I don't mind dashing out to the (cold) main shop to get a quick job done but am much happier watching/waiting for a CNC job to run in the warm sub-shop. Put up a little pegboard there, added a bench with a router mounted in it (cut the hole for the router plate with the Meteor), small bandsaw and a set of tool drawers. The bandsaw is useful for cutting apart CNCed parts that had tabs between them, and the router generally has a flush-trim bit in it to clean those tab remnants off. I put a filter over the return-air vent in the room to keep sawdust from the home system 

I still have my CNC Shark out in the main shop, and will run it if the parts fit and I'm out in that shop for other reasons too. This time of year (in Kansas at least) an unheated shop isn't that fun to work in though.

4D


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## Fasteddie58 (May 18, 2014)

Congrats! I look forward to seeing the pictures and reading about your experience with the CNC.

Regards!
Ed


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Just found out the total cost of my Probotix Nebula. $35000

$6k for the machine and $29k for the new kitchen momma just ordered !!!!

HJ

This doesn't seem fair


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

I know you break a lot of bits on these machines. You partial to any one brand and how many at a time do you order?

HJ

Recovering from the shock


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> I know you break a lot of bits on these machines. You partial to any one brand and how many at a time do you order?
> 
> HJ


When I've broken a bit it is usually because I accidently ran it through a clamp or vise. My fault for trying to be clever how I clamp parts to cut. My students don't break bits often, but occasionally one will be cutting an unusually hard piece of Walnut or hard Maple and break two or three before done. Usually on a deep pass when there is more potential deflection of the bit. Whiteside bits seem to be the most fragile. I like Onsrud for being exactly what they claim in diameter. I try and keep two of all the end mills I commonly use on hand. One each of the assorted profile/form bits I use rarely. Amazon can usually get me a replacement within 2 week days, or one day if I am desperate. I order two new ones when I've broken one, but only if there is only one left. I am not an industrial shop, and make more sample cuts for students than projects of my own. My bit costs don't seem too high, but then I haven't added up what I spent on bits over a year yet. At the University we buy bits at the beginning of each semester. This Spring with a new Nebula to feed the total was over $700. That should keep us from ordering any more until the Fall semester. We run 3 CNCs and since each may be using the same 1/8" end mill at the same time, we try and keep 3+ of each bit in stock at all times. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

4D, I live in NE Kansas and am considering purchasing the Fireball Asteroid. Any advice you could provide would be welcomed. I don't want to hijack this thread but I just joined the forum and cannot PM yet.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

cjskelton said:


> 4D, I live in NE Kansas and am considering purchasing the Fireball Asteroid. Any advice you could provide would be welcomed. I don't want to hijack this thread but I just joined the forum and cannot PM yet.


Hi cj. Advice? I'm happy with my Meteor, and the Asteroid is built just the same although they are now including an upgraded controller from the one I got with mine. They also have switched the motors (same motors) from being wired as unipolar to bipolar although the only benefit is more torque as far as I can tell. It also appears as though they are using a different brand/type of limit switch which shouldn't make much different except it appears (just today) we have a defect one on the Nebula CNC we just got where I work. 

I like the way their Comet/Asteroid/Meteor/Nebula are designed. If you configure the table top right you can clamp and cut parts vertically or at any angle as long as you can figure out how. Ask them if they'll include an internal cross bar or you can add one yourself and even more creative cutting can be done. 

There is a 4th Axis attachment available, and a spindle as well, so I consider that great potential for future upgrading. 

The included MDF top is really your only challenge when you get it. I've bought t-track strips, cut MDF strips to go between them and added them to the three I oversee. Recut the original top to fit inside the frame flush to the top of it so I didn't lose any Z-travel. I can lift out a section when I want to cut anything that needs more Z-depth or is clamped vertically/angled. You could also just have the CNC drill a hole array to insert threaded inserts or t-nuts for screwing clamps or jigs into. Some just screw work down to the MDF or tape it down then expect to replace the MDF after it is too torn up. 

You'll need something to draw up and then generate tool paths with. Hopefully you've got a little CAD experience. I use VCarve Pro and Aspire from Vectric.com and find either is all I need for both drawing creation and tool path creation. 

If you have any specific questions just let them fly. I stop here at least once a day. If you are ever in Manhattan then let me know. I can show you the Meteor and Nebula I have set up for students to use in K-state's IAPD Furniture Design shop. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> Hi cj. Advice? I'm happy with my Meteor, and the Asteroid is built just the same although they are now including an upgraded controller from the one I got with mine. They also have switched the motors (same motors) from being wired as unipolar to bipolar although the only benefit is more torque as far as I can tell. It also appears as though they are using a different brand/type of limit switch which shouldn't make much different except it appears (just today) we have a defect one on the Nebula CNC we just got where I work.
> 
> I like the way their Comet/Asteroid/Meteor/Nebula are designed. If you configure the table top right you can clamp and cut parts vertically or at any angle as long as you can figure out how. Ask them if they'll include an internal cross bar or you can add one yourself and even more creative cutting can be done.
> 
> ...


I'm about an hour from Manhattan and seeing the machines in person would help very much. I've downloaded the trial version of VCarvePro so I can be up to speed when I get my CNC router. I'm looking at the Dewalt DWP611 router with a precision collet. Would you recommend getting the starter tool set with the Asteroid?
Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

cjskelton said:


> I'm about an hour from Manhattan and seeing the machines in person would help very much. I've downloaded the trial version of VCarvePro so I can be up to speed when I get my CNC router. I'm looking at the Dewalt DWP611 router with a precision collet. Would you recommend getting the starter tool set with the Asteroid?
> Jay


I put the Dewalt 611 and precision collet on my meteor when I got it, but have since upgraded to Dewalts 618 2.5hp so I could occasionally stick 1/2" shaft bits in there. Their mount for the Porter Cable 820 line work fine with the DW618. We also use the 618 on the two Probotix CNCs at work. 

If you don't already have a few router bits to use, then that starter set is an OK place to start. I prefer larger (1/2" or larger diameter cutter) V-Bits personally but the 1/4" ones in the kit will work OK. My semi "official" set for each CNC I set up has upcut and downcut spiral end mills in 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4", a couple of 1/16" straight end mills for fine details, 1/2" diameter V bits in 60 degree and 45 degree versions, as well as a larger 120 degree V bit. Ball noses including 1/16", 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". 1/8", 3/16",1/4", 5/16", and 3/8" radius plunge (no bearing) roundovers. I also keep 5/16", 3/8", and 1/2" end mills nearby for occasional large pocket cleanout or area surface planing. 

I've been using routers for a few decades and will toolpath for any bit that makes sense to use in a CNC. Creative clamping and the occasional odd bit are often a way to solve a difficult challenge easily on the CNC.

Snowing now in Manhattan, and probably where you are. May take a day or two to dig out/melt down. Glad its a weekend anyway. No rush to shovel myself out. MWF afternoons are a good time to see the CNCs with no students using them. Wed or Friday this week, or MWF the week after. Let me know when you want to come and I'll make sure to meet you to show you where we hide those CNCs. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

This Wednesday would work best for me. Looking forward to meeting you and seeing your CNCs in action. Could you PM me contact info? Thanks 4D!

Jay


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

Let us (me) know how it goes with 4D ................ and what your thoughts are on these machines. And most importantly - do you think a reasonably intelligent old geezer can operate one.

Hi 4D.

HJ

waiting to hear.


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Will do, HJ. I'm a bit of a geezer myself. Retired army.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D, oh great wise sage and perfesser

I checked my community college catalog and this is what they offer for CNC. Any suggestions if any of these are worth pursuing?

CNC essentials
2D CAD w/Mastercam
2D Mastercam - mill programming and machining
CNC mill G&M programming and CNC machining
CNC lathe G&M programming and CNC machining

these are 8 week classes with no prerequisite 

HJ

Going back to school?


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D, oh great wise sage and perfesser
> 
> I checked my community college catalog and this is what they offer for CNC. Any suggestions if any of these are worth pursuing?
> 
> ...


I'm all for education, and CNC experience of any type can be useful if you are getting your own CNC. The CNC essentials "might" be a general class, although if there are 8 weeks of it then it'll have far more info than you need to run a Probotix CNC. CAD education is useful if it is with the software you'll be using with your own CNC. I don't use MasterCAM and found vectric's free online video tutorials all the education I needed to get good using their VCarve/Aspire applications. Mill and Lathe classes won't apply to using the Probotix CNCs either, and are intended for those using professional grade industrial CNCs.

If you can track down the instructor for those classes you might explain what you want to do and ask if any of those classes would be relevant. 

To use any CNC you need to know a little CAD and CAD terminology. That'll get you through creating the drawings for what you want to cut out. You can learn this by watching and working along with the tutorials on Vectric's web site. If you go with Vcarve then you don't need to buy any other CAD program to draw with, and they provide 'class content" on their web site. 

Once you have the parts drawn, then tool paths are assigned to each line or object in the drawing. The bit used is selected. What you do with the bit relative to the line or outline is chosen. Where the bit will go is calculated. Those tool paths can be saved out separately from the drawing file, and are what you open with the controller software for the specific CNC you'll be using. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> Jay,
> 
> Let us (me) know how it goes with 4D ................ and what your thoughts are on these machines. And most importantly - do you think a reasonably intelligent old geezer can operate one.
> 
> ...


4D gave me the grand tour today. Wow! I am impressed with the stuff his students are creating. It really got me jazzed to get my own CNC. After looking at the Probotix in his shop, I've decided to go with the Meteor vs the Asteroid. The Meteor has a considerably longer bed than the Asteroid and many of my woodworking projects are longer than 3'. It was good to see the machines in person. They are built very stout and have some great features. Today was well worth the time and gas for the trip. Thanks again, 4D!

I've downloaded the trial version of VCarvePro and have watched the tutorial videos. In no time I was importing graphics and creating my own designs, toolpaths and viewing what the final product would look like. You sound motivated and determined so you should have no trouble learning how to operate your CNC.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanx Jay,

That gives me some hope of at least using one, although I don't think I'll ever be able to say "I mastered it."

I got the Nebula coming, just cause of the wider bed. I agree with you on the longer bed length. Like the experts always say, figure out what you need now and get at least 2 sizes or more bigger.

My wife says for what I'm spending on this thing, she'll keep me well motivated, or face the "wrath of Debra."

Mine should be here this week or next. I don't even have the table cleared off and set in place yet. Got to run a 220 line for the spindle, too.

I think it's more fear than anything about going into something new that's probably too mundane for today's 6 year olds.

Thanx for the update.

Sounds like 4D is as genuine as he is on the forum.

HJ

Still uses a Blackberry Bold


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks Jay. It was nice to see you yesterday and show you around. The battery on my van was dead when I left to go home though so today has been an adventure getting that fixed. K-State parking services was nice enough to jump start me so I could leave, but not a whimper from my van now facing out of my garage but dead as can be. 

John.. You won't be disappointed with the Nebula. The only moment of fear I had when I started using a CNC was clicking RUN the first time. After that I've had success and a few failures, but all push me toward a better understanding of how to get the best out of a CNC. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> Thanks Jay. It was nice to see you yesterday and show you around. The battery on my van was dead when I left to go home though so today has been an adventure getting that fixed. K-State parking services was nice enough to jump start me so I could leave, but not a whimper from my van now facing out of my garage but dead as can be.
> 
> John.. You won't be disappointed with the Nebula. The only moment of fear I had when I started using a CNC was clicking RUN the first time. After that I've had success and a few failures, but all push me toward a better understanding of how to get the best out of a CNC.
> 
> 4D


Sorry to hear about your car troubles. That always sucks. I plan on ordering my CNC sometime next month. I may call Probotix and talk to them about picking up the machine at their shop in Peoria. Their web site claims it would be ready 7 days after ordering.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

Talk to Len, or his wife. They build to order, but usually have something started. I'll let you know when mine gets here, and how long it took.

HJ

All 4D had to do was make a new battery with one of his machines !!


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> All 4D had to do was make a new battery with one of his machines !!


 I can usually come up with tool paths for what students think would be impossible to cut on a CNC, but the battery I cut out of a large block of poplar doesn't hold a charge. I'm thinking I missed something about the workings of a battery in my build.  

It looks great though!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Well, it shipped today. Got an email from Probotix today. Should have it Tues or Wed. Then I get to look at it til I can get everything ready.

Should give me a little time to start tackling the manual and the scary computer part.

4D, don't you have a conference or some sort of perfesser convention to go to in Michigan???

HJ

Don't know if I'm more happy or scared !!!


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> Well, it shipped today. Got an email from Probotix today. Should have it Tues or Wed. Then I get to look at it til I can get everything ready.
> 
> Should give me a little time to start tackling the manual and the scary computer part.
> 
> ...


Be happy, man! It's going to be fun! Keep us up to date on how everything goes. You'll do fine.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D, don't you have a conference or some sort of perfesser convention to go to in Michigan???
> 
> HJ


They don't let me out of the building very often as when I leave no one knows how to use the CNCs we have. I might be in Vegas for the AWFS Fair though depending on if they accept any of my students into the Fresh Wood Design Competition.

I noticed Len at Probotix is working on a video about using LinuxCNC with the machines. You can find his work to date on their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/probotix?_rdr

You'll do fine if you can stand watching videos online. Good luck, and I'd also love to see your progress posted here.

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

BTW, I was getting a Joint 2 error when making aggressive cuts on the Nebula. I thought it meant a defective limit switch on the Z axis. Took it apart today and found the top of two wires was not slid over the blade on the switch but simply trapped against it. I took the switch out, slid the crimped end of that wire over the blade, then put it back in. I'm guessing that during installation the switch was screwed in before the wires were attached. There wasn't enough slack in the top wire to slide it in when installed. Rather than unscrew the switch to slide the wire on they just left it trapped between the cable and the switch blade. It made contact fine when cuts were easy and didn't shake the gantry any, but would lose contact with vibration, signalling the error. 

Hopefully I've fixed it now. Something to look for if you see any Joint 2 errors crop up. I sent a photo and this description to support at Probotix. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> BTW, I was getting a Joint 2 error when making aggressive cuts on the Nebula. I thought it meant a defective limit switch on the Z axis. Took it apart today and found the top of two wires was not slid over the blade on the switch but simply trapped against it. I took the switch out, slid the crimped end of that wire over the blade, then put it back in. I'm guessing that during installation the switch was screwed in before the wires were attached. There wasn't enough slack in the top wire to slide it in when installed. Rather than unscrew the switch to slide the wire on they just left it trapped between the cable and the switch blade. It made contact fine when cuts were easy and didn't shake the gantry any, but would lose contact with vibration, signalling the error.
> 
> Hopefully I've fixed it now. Something to look for if you see any Joint 2 errors crop up. I sent a photo and this description to support at Probotix.
> 
> 4D


Wow good trouble shooting 
I'd be a little intimidated trying to figure that one out


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The errors themselves were all the motivation it took for me to figure out what caused them. A little web searching revealed that X is Joint 0, Y is Joint 1, and Z is Joint 2 in most cases. The error message included the word "limit" and as far as I can tell the only piece of hardware on a CNC with that word in it is the limit switches. A chat with Len at Probotix pointed out that the router mount plate is easy to take off and would reveal the Z limit switch, and he sent me 3 spares on the assumption that the switch itself might be defective. Once the plate was off it was more than obvious what was wrong. 

The simplicity of this CNC design is a clear advantage. When our large Multicam throws an error it usually demands a service visit, and disassembling it before the cause is found. Even more time to fix the problem. These Probotix CNCs could be sold as kits and assembled by anyone with a set of allen wrenches. It took a team of engineers and a factory to produce/assemble any large professional (pricey) CNC.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well 4D this s what I'm liking about this RT , as you say it can be built as a kit . I'm ready to jump in and buy one very soon but as I say our dollar is getting increasingly lower . Personally I don't even think it will recover , and with duty , customs , shipping , taxes and the exchange rate , the purchaced cost with most likely be very close to double if not more


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

RM,

Why can't you make a trip over the border for some shopping like the folks from Windsor and Sarnia do on a regular basis. If one was waiting here for you all you would be out would be the gas money and the exchange rate, unless you live in the Yukon or NW Territory or up by the Arctic Circle.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> RM,
> 
> Why can't you make a trip over the border for some shopping like the folks from Windsor and Sarnia do on a regular basis. If one was waiting here for you all you would be out would be the gas money and the exchange rate, unless you live in the Yukon or NW Territory or up by the Arctic Circle.
> 
> HJ


Well crossing the border would help partially with shipping , but not much else . I know I'm not going to drive a few thousand miles round trip to get it .
I doubt they have free shipping to Spokane Washington . That's only a 3.5 hour drive for me , but I would have to renew my passport for another 200 bucks first as it just expored in jan . Geez how five years goes by so fast


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

That means you're up there on the left side. Thought you might be over by London - Toronto way.

So that means you are probably in a great hunting area. That's not fair.

HJ

Guns, bullets, tools, and wood --- this retirement thing is going to be expensive


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I had a nice conversation with Len at Probotix this morning. He answered all the questions that I had on my mind. I'll be ordering a Meteor in about 3 weeks for a delivery in the middle of April. I plan to travel to Peoria to pick it up.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm impressed with your patience, Jay. Once I knew a meteor was what I wanted it was ordered and I was camping out by my garage door waiting for it. :dance3:

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> I'm impressed with your patience, Jay. Once I knew a meteor was what I wanted it was ordered and I was camping out by my garage door waiting for it. :dance3:
> 
> 4D


I'm usually not that patient when I want a new toy but it's a big investment and I'm taking it a little slower. Even my wife is surprised that I haven't ordered it yet. LOL I've sold my scroll saw and my overarm pin router so that makes a little more room in my shop and a few dollars more towards the CNC.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

It's here!! My buddy called me from his garage and there's a big crate there. Says it's a good thing it went there cause it came crated on 2 pallets connected and was as wide as the trailer, so the forklift came in handy. Says they did a heck of a job crating it. 

Will try and go down tomorrow and unpack it. Should fit in my pickup then. Only got 8 mile trip - then figure out how to get it in the basement and then ..............

HJ

Anxious and scared


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

Make a trip up here. We'll play with mine for a while, and then you can pick yours up on the way home, and be all knowledgeable and practiced up.

Len seems like a pretty straight shooter and his wife can answer most questions, too

HJ

Got your best interest at heart


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> It's here!! My buddy called me from his garage and there's a big crate there. Says it's a good thing it went there cause it came crated on 2 pallets connected and was as wide as the trailer, so the forklift came in handy. Says they did a heck of a job crating it.
> 
> Will try and go down tomorrow and unpack it. Should fit in my pickup then. Only got 8 mile trip - then figure out how to get it in the basement and then ..............
> 
> ...


Awesome, HJ! I'm excited for you. You are in for some fun very, very soon. It must be quite a job,though, to get it in your basement. Good luck there, buddy. Let us know how it goes and put up some pictures of that beauty.

Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The MDF bed is probably the heaviest part of these CNCs. If you can take that off before trying to move the frame with a buddy the chore will be far easier. The PC and controller and monitor/mouse/keyboard are in separate boxes as well. 

My meteor I carried myself after removing the MDF as I could stand in the frame a lift it up. The nebula is probably too wide to reach and lift so definitely recruit a friend to help.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Well, I got it in the basement and got it all unpacked. Got the 220 circuit hooked up. Now I'm at a standstill. Seems I got one of the "new" boxes. It doesn't go together anything like the video on Probotix website.

Got on their homepage and went to the Wiki page like Len said to and there's an index like a manual but that's all I can find. So now I have a bunch of parts, no how to video, no manual, and a bunch of frustration built up.

It's going someplace besides my place if I don't start getting some answers on how to set the damn thing up. 

HJ

May be in over his head on this one


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Well, I got it in the basement and got it all unpacked. Got the 220 circuit hooked up. Now I'm at a standstill. Seems I got one of the "new" boxes. It doesn't go together anything like the video on Probotix website.
> 
> Got on their homepage and went to the Wiki page like Len said to and there's an index like a manual but that's all I can find. So now I have a bunch of parts, no how to video, no manual, and a bunch of frustration built up.
> 
> ...


Well this isn't what I expected to hear  
I would have thought that it's all closely relevant , but I guess not. Wish you lived near me John , as I'd love to help with the assembly


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'd love to help you, HJ. On the assumption you have all the boxes unpacked, what is the part you are stuck on?

Working from memory, you'll need an outlet strip with at least 6 plugs to get it all powered. 

The bundle of cables from the CNC should be labelled with X-Axis, Y1-Axis, Y2-Axis, Z Axis, limit switches, and E-Stop. Also a plug from the outlet on the gantry for the Spindle. All of these should have a matching place to plug into the back of the controller box. Plug them all in, one at a time. The ports on the controller should have different numbers of pins for different function cables. 

There should be a parallel cable (25-pin connector on both ends) to connect between the PC and the controller box. Of the two parallel ports on the PC choose the horizontal one. 

Connect Monitor power cable to power strip. Connect Monitor VGA cable to PC box.
Connect Keyboard cable to one USB jack on PC box.
Connect Mouse cable to one USB jack on PC box. 
Connect the Game controller cable to one USB jack on PC box.
Connect the PC Power cable to the outlet strip.
Connect any power cables from controller to outlet strip. 

I can't help you with the Spindle as I don't have and have never seen one installed on a similar CNC. 

You should be able to at least get the CNC moving around if you have all the cables I've listed connected: 

Start the PC and Monitor first. Don't turn on the controller box yet.
Once the monitor shows the desktop, locate the Nebula icon and double click on it. 

If lucky, the LinuxCNC screen will appear. If you see any sort of error message or text box then the game controller may not be plugged in. 

In LinuxCNC, the second icon from the top left corner is POWER to the controller. Click it once and the grayed-out controls should activate. NOW turn the power switch of the controller ON. 

You should hear something from the CNC indicating it is alive. At this point you can use the direction keys to move the spindle mount left/right/forward/backward, and PG-UP/PG-DN to move the spindle mount up and down.

Before spending any time clamping things to the table, you need to HOME the CNC. Locate and click on the HOME icon. The CNC should move UP to find the Z limit, forward and left to find the X and Y limits. Then it should move back to center of the table (cutting area). 

Let me know if you get this far.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Gonna head down to the basement with the laptop in a few minutes. Got WIfi down there.

I got power to the spindle. The arbor spins (adjustable speeds, too). The head won't move up or down, right, or left.

Got the cables from the computer, controller box, monitor, mouse, and keyboard all hooked up. Game controller won't work. Might be the order I turned them on.

Only got 4 cords to go into the powerstrip. Must be because of the 220 control box that feeds the spindle direct.

I'll have the computer on and will let you know if I make any more progress.

HJ

Gonna work thru this ......... I hope


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I got it to the the point of getting the Nebula icon on the screen. Clicking on that gives me a couple of error boxes that say - Linux was terminated with an error. The game controller was plugged in, but has never shown any life or lights of any kind have even flickered.

I think it's all hooked up ok. There is an xtra little power control box, but that's for the 220 plug and the spindle control - so there's no router plug.

HJ

Making progress??


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I had trouble getting my game controller to work. Moving its cable to a different USB port did the trick for me. There are two under a flap on the front of the PC box if none of the rear ones make it work. 

You may have to restart the linux PC after moving the cable to try running the Nebula control software again.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

No go. I tried every USB port. Get the same error box each time. I've rebooted enough times I got to go the cobbler.

Now the game controller seems totally dead. No lights, sounds, clicks, or anything. Does it have an on/off switch?

Is there anything special you got to do to reset Linux, besides rebooting?

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The game controller will only do something once the LinuxCNC software is running. And the joysticks on it only work if you are pressing down any of three colored buttons on the right (not the top one). 

The game controller was my only snag when first setting up my Meteor. The software expects it, and generates errors when it can't find it. Mine did eventually work, but you may have a defective one. 

I don't use mine, and it isn't needed to move the bit around. The keyboard keys are faster, and you can set how precise each keyboard press is in the software.

You are dead in the water if your Nebula (linuxCNC) doesn't start. I know it is discouraging, but there is soooo much potential fun to be had once it is working that I hope you persist. Call Support at Probotix. Be at the CNC when you do. If Len can't get your system running then he'll at least know what is broken and offer a way to fix it. 

No CNC is going to be easy to start using. My CNC Shark came with crappy instructions. I mounted my gantry backwards at first, since there was no photo or reason to think it should go the other way. The 90k Multicam we have where I work took an expert three days to "configure" it so the controller would talk to the PC and talk to the CNC at the same time. It still "breaks" for assorted reasons. Although I had shipping damage (broke the e-switch off the rail and bent my aluminum angle on one side) my Meteor has since become a reliable friend capable of magic. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Looks like I'll just throw a piece of plastic over the whole thing an wait til Monday. No matter what I do the screen keeps popping up with an Error box saying Linus was terminated with errors, and lists about 25 lines.

The game controller just seems dead. Like I said, no nothing from it.

There's got to be a way to clear the error code box.

Anyway, I can't mess with it anymore. Got a cabinet to get cut out and assembled. Was hoping to use the Nebula to fancy it up a little, but she'll have to settle for a Plain Jane.

Will let you know what I find out Monday.

Thanx for your time.

HJ

Dead in the water ............. for now.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Sorry to hear this John . Nothing worse then having a new toy and it's not working , especially an investment such as this . 
I'm sure you'll get it sorted out next week though . I'm very interested in hearing what went wrong .
You would have thought that the system was pre tested?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

All I can think of is it's something in the game controller. They probably tested it with theirs. Mine was brand new in the package. I'm hoping it was just a bad one.

They can make a service call before I take this thing from the basement and recrate it.
Too much trouble getting it to it's resting place.

I'm sure it's something minor that can be ironed out Monday.

HJ

And we haven't even got to the software yet !!


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

On my old Meteor there is more than one configuration folder. One is labelled Meteor_No_Game. The one normally used is Meteor. 

I vaguely remember that swapping the names of these two folders(temporarily) allowed my LinuxCNC to run without looking for the game controller. 

My system is almost 2 years old though, and they may have stopped putting multiple .INI files on each system. Worth a look perhaps.....?


Update: If you right click on the Nebula icon, then pick* Properites* (bottom of the list) it'll show you a window with a *Command* line that directs where the program files are it will run. 

A wild shot here. This assumes they haven't changed much in how things work or are set up: 
Right click again on the Nebula icon. Pick *COPY*.
Move to an open space on the desktop. Right click then pick *PASTE* to put a copy of the Nebula icon there. 
Right click on this new Nebula. *RENAME* it to something like Nebula_No_Game.
Now right click on Nebula_No_Game. Pick *Properties*. Edit the *command* line to read: 

/usr/bin/linuxcnc '/home/probotix/linuxcnc/configs/Nebula_No_Game/nebula.ini'

You can cut and paste it from here if you are viewing this from your Linux PC.

I did these steps to my own setup and created an icon I could run that didn't look for my game controller. I've only change my "meteor" to your "nebula" where it was used. This might get your software running with no working game controller.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Having these issues for me would be much worse seeing I'm in western Canada . I can just imagine shipping things back and forth across the border trying to iron out the bugs


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'll look at it again tomorrow. Framing daughter-n-law's sewing cabinet now. Supposed to be a surprise. Gonna have first grandchild around 1st of April and Mama is chomping at the bit to head to Raleigh right after it happens. Want to take cabinet down when we go. Don't usually take the pick up when we visit, but it will be stuffed with "stuff!"

HJ

Always gets these harebrained ideas at the last minute


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Gonna start a new thread

HJ


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## Seaorsaw (Mar 8, 2015)

Hi 
Been looking at the Meteor as a starting place for me. Can someone tell me about the controller they use ? I have no knowledge of Linux at all and would like to know if there are any issues with it. Is it stable ... crashes... easy to reinstall... run all Aspire files? Do you get backup files. As for the machine are people running them on a daily basis ? any problems? Can they be squared if needed? Thanks


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Hi Seaorsaw,

I have a Meteor that I use daily (but not for more than an hour or less) and oversee use of a Meteor and a Nebula at the university I teach at. The two at the university get heavy use every week day.

The control software is LinuxCNC which comes pre-installed and configured from the factory. Very mature. The version of Linux used looks and acts much like Windows. Keep the Linux PC off the internet and don't try and upgrade it or the LinuxCNC and yours should be reliable as long as you own it. I'm in the third year of using my own Meteor and no problems so far. 

Aspire can create toolpaths you can open and cut in LinuxCNC, but you can't run Aspire itself on the Linux PC. I use Aspire to make tool paths for my Meteor. 

The CNC needs to be homed each time it is turned on, and that process automatically squares the gantry to the frame. The gantry is level across the cutting field and the router is square to the cutting field. The router mount could be shimmed front-to-back though if you thought it needed to be. 

4D


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## Seaorsaw (Mar 8, 2015)

Thank you 4D Also any thoughts about the Meteor and the Asteroid? Seems it would be easy to tile a large piece on the Asteroid, 37 by however long...Don't think I would have that much use at that large size to justify the Nebula...thanks


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The Nebula is mostly just a child of an Asteroid that mated with a Meteor. 3 ft is the long dimension and open side of the Asteroid, and if the projects you want to make will fit or can be tiled in the 3' x 2' space then that is one way to save a few bucks.

My students rarely cut anything that takes advantage of the 3' x 4' space of our Nebula, but I have. We bought the Nebula after having a Meteor for a year as there were those few things that we just couldn't fit in the 2' x4' space, and the Nebula was still under $5000. 

The only potential negative of the Asteroid, also true of the Nebula, is that the gantry rail is longer but not stiffer. I see and can feel increased vibration at the router during aggressive cuts when close to the mid span of our Nebula. Not enough to ruin a cut, but still detectable. The Asteroid uses the same 3'+ rail. The Comet and Meteor use a 2'+ gantry rail.


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## Seaorsaw (Mar 8, 2015)

Thanks again 4D.
Most of my cutting wouldn't need the wide gantry, and I would prefer more accurate cuts over just having a longer gantry which may not be needed. Do you have pictures of any projects done on the cnc anywhere? Would be nice to see what is being taught.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't post photos of student work simply because it is original and belongs to them. I'm sure most wouldn't mind, but the kid who loses a chance to patent an idea because his work has already been publicly exhibited might have regrets. 

I teach furniture design. The course sequence has them starting with small boxes, moving to small simple tables, then ending with full size chairs or cabinets/desks/dining tables/etc.. So on any day the CNCs may be cutting chair parts or finger joints for a small box or half blind mitered dovetails for the corners of a coffee table. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Everything is in place so I'm going to order my Meteor on Monday. I plan on picking it up in Peoria on the 15th. Can't wait to give it a spin! Seeing them in action really helped me make up my mind. Thanks again 4D!

Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

'Bout time, Jay! I'm a little jealous of your trip. I'd love to see Probotix' shop. Take a few photos while you are there, eh?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Make sure you're xtra special nice to Len. We just went thru 2 afternoons of either becoming best friends or just the opposite. The man has a lot of patience and will take as much time as necessary to get you going on the right foot. I really owe him a cold one or three - plus a steak.

I'll update my other thread.

HJ

Making more progress ........ I think


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## Eric T (Jul 22, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> The only potential negative of the Asteroid, also true of the Nebula, is that the gantry rail is longer but not stiffer. I see and can feel increased vibration at the router during aggressive cuts when close to the mid span of our Nebula. Not enough to ruin a cut, but still detectable. The Asteroid uses the same 3'+ rail. The Comet and Meteor use a 2'+ gantry rail.


This is a really good perspective and something I had not thought about. My main issue now is stiffness (or lack of) with my MDF V90 kit- it has a very noticeable sag from the combination of heavy Bosch Colt on a plastic-like tool holder mounted to an MDF gantry. If I spend $4k on a new CNC, the last thing I want is to have to go the same speed I am now while cutting acrylic (roughly 25 inches per minute) and have the thing vibrating in the middle because of the gantry's span. 

What would be ideal is if they reoriented the gantry on the Asteroid to the 24" axis. This would enable the same about of cutting but with a stiffer gantry. 

When you say above that you can see and feel vibration, what are the typical speeds that are being ran? 

The reason this is so critical to me is that I'm milling .25" acrylic down to .06" thin in some places and the last thing I need is to punch thru because of vibration.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you call up Probotix, I'd bet they would be happy to make you an Asteroid that is 2' wide by 3' long rather than 3'wide by 2' long. Maybe for a small upcharge as the threaded Y rods would be unique in such a configuration. All the other parts would be stock or easy to cut to length. You want a short Meteor for the Asteroid price. Probotix has been very accommodating for any modifications I've specified with each order. Center rails, insert nuts pre-installed in the rails, etc.. 

I owned a Meteor a year before we bought one for the university shop I work in. We bought a Nebula a year later. The first time I noticed vibration on the Nebula was when cutting hardwood with a 1/4" spiral upcut bit, and the bit was running parallel to the gantry. Moving forward the bit would try and pull left, and the closer to the center of the gantry the cut got the more severe the vibration would be. You could hear and see it. I could dampen it by reaching up and holding my hand against the motor. 

I have yet to see any similar vibration on my Meteor or the one at work. Of course the long dimension runs in the Y direction so long cuts normally are front to back and not parallel to the gantry. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

the other thing to think about is to get a spindle instead of using a router. The air cooled spindle on my Nebula seems to have pretty much cut out any sagging and vibration ........ provided the bit is in straight (don't ask).

HJ

Likes the Nebula so far ........... already looking at a bigger bed, but just looking (so far)


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Try this site

CNCzone


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Or you could just try this one. I personally find CNCzone to be confusing and a bit overwhelming. Prefer the broader focus on routers here with small focus on CNCs than the broad focus on CNCs there. JMHO.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

4DThinker said:


> Or you could just try this one. I personally find CNCzone to be confusing and a bit overwhelming. Prefer the broader focus on routers here with small focus on CNCs than the broad focus on CNCs there. JMHO.


I have followed CNCzone since 2005. It can be overwhelming and clumsy. Searches will find threads with very conflicting statements and nobody going back to clean them up. When you are down to just spindle or router questions, this site is much clearer. 

Steve.


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## stillakid (Jul 26, 2014)

I also have a Meteor. I had some trouble at first but the support was great. They never quit until it was up and running, even sent new limit switches, control box and computer. Come to find out I was trying to run it with to long of an extension cord. I have not had a problem with it since. They are always there to answer any questions I have.

Stillakid


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Same here. Gotta say Len and his staff are there and won't leave you hanging. And they speak real American, cause they're located in Peoria, Illinois.

HJ


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## Williamsburg.Rider (Aug 8, 2015)

Just purchased a used Meteor. Finding it difficult to find a software package to design with etc that I can understand. The person that owned the router before me designs her products using Adobe Illustrator then converts to dxf then Cut2d for the gcode unless I am missing a step.

Could ubuntu with wine be loaded on the linuxcnc to run Cut2d or is that a waste of time?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

N/a

Did you get the computer with Linux with the machine?

These machines come with their own computer. Then you take Cut2d, Vcarve, Aspire, or whatever software and convert it to G-code (program does this for you) on a thumbnail drive and run your cut using the dedicated Linux computer.

4D --- the man needs you for a better explanation.

HJ

Knows enough to be dangerous.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I haven't found anything that runs on Linux to generate G-code from a drawing. I use Vectric's Aspire (top of their line) to both draw and then create tool paths to cut on my Meteor. All their products except cut3D can do the same, but the lower priced ones have fewer options for both drawing and tool path creation. My students use a variety of CAD packages to draw up their designs, but then we have to import them into Aspire (or VCarve or Cut2D) to select individual vectors to turn into pockets or profiles or fluting or carving or 3D tool paths. 

Once tool paths have been created (Vectric's products have a great render preview) you select a post processor (kind of like a printer driver) that turns the tool paths into code that machine controller can process. I run Aspire on a windows PC and store my tool paths on a network drive. I access that network drive from my Linux machine to load into LinuxCNC and cut. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Yup - what Perfesser 4D said. He's good.

Now, that being said, having the main computer with the program in it on a machine in a separate room and just downloading a file to a thumbnail has, to me, it's benefits. All the dust and dirt doesn't foul up the main computer computer, you can design in the more comfortable office with the TV on and a cold one, the CNC has it's own dedicated brain with no interference, you have 2 copies (if you save it) of your program, and you just pop the flashdrive in and cut away. The computer all set up is cheap. Probotix will sell you one ready to go. Call Len.

HJ

Learning.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

2 months away from ordering a Probotix Nebula but keep looking at the Cncrouterparts Pro 2448 for around the same price. Looks nicer but probotix isn't a kit. ???? I think the Nebula will handle my needs but still hate to pass up the nicer machine.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I don't have any regrets ordering my Nebula with the air cooled spindle. Don't know how you could get any "nicer" than one of these for the price. 3 x 4' bed is bigger than any other benchtop I've seen. And it's ready to go right out of the crate.

You can call Len in Peoria IL anytime and he will resolve any issues you may have. He held my hand right from the gitgo.

HJ












HJ


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

I agree hj. I wonder if the "game pad" can be swapped out for a wireless one? Oh, and I've decided to go with the Asteroid. I hope I don't run into the vibrating gantry issue that 4d was discribing but we'll see. Joe.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

We only see vibration when cutting parallel to the gantry, typically using a 1/4" end mill in hardwood, and more when in the center of the gantry.

I encourage my students to clamp long boards front to back and not in the center unless unavoidable. No problems when they following my advice.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4DJoe said:


> I agree hj. I wonder if the "game pad" can be swapped out for a wireless one? Joe.



The game pad has to be plugged in to work. I never use it. I just use the mouse and settings on the computer screen. The keyboard and game pad just sit there tucked away.


HJ


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Thanks 4D for the tip and BTW sorry for the username similarities especially since I'm not even ordering the 4th axis.  
Do any of you guys have the Atlas tool length sensor? I'm thinking with at least 3 tool changes per job, it might actually be worth the $300. Maybe I'm just being lazy?
Thanks for the info, Joe.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Thanks HJ, it's easy to see that I don't have mine yet. I assumed you would use it quite often. I can't wait to get mine. I'm a retired Network Analyst who traded in computers for a woodshop 2 years ago. Now look at me combining the two. Oh well, hopefully my computer background will pay off in the cnc shop.  Joe.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I didn't get the tool changer - kind of wishing I did now. But more than anything, I should have gotten the gizmo that keeps the z axis at the same level when you change bits or need to start midway in a cut.

Len is working on a new and improved one now and it should be ready by the time you order your machine

Hint: whatever size you think you'll need - -- get at least the next size bigger. Get as much machine as you can -- you'll use it if you do anything at all.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> I didn't get the tool changer - kind of wishing I did now. But more than anything, I should have gotten the gizmo that keeps the z axis at the same level when you change bits or need to start midway in a cut.
> 
> Len is working on a new and improved one now and it should be ready by the time you order your machine
> 
> ...


John when the time comes that's why I'm figuring on ordering the 4/8 model from cnc parts and only assembling half of it . If I find the 4/4 table too small I will have all the right length cables ,track etc , and add the other rails and extend the base if I wish . But I would prefer a smaller footprint for now , or oust the laser


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

As far as machine size, I was going with the meteor (shorter, stiffer gantry) but then changed to nebula for size. Now I've decided finally to get the Asteroid. (Same gantry as Nebula but much cheaper) and I can tile my parts and run the same size projects as a nebula (may need infeed/out feed tables)  Joe.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DJoe said:


> As far as machine size, I was going with the meteor (shorter, stiffer gantry) but then changed to nebula for size. Now I've decided finally to get the Asteroid. (Same gantry as Nebula but much cheaper) and I can tile my parts and run the same size projects as a nebula (may need infeed/out feed tables)  Joe.


I doubt you could go wrong with any model from probotix from the positive comments I've been reading here. 
I'm kinda tempted myself but I also like building things as I think it gives you better understanding of the machine , plus it may help with future trouble shooting.
Each to his own of course 

Oh before someone beats me to it , I don't like insulating


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

That's funny Rainman, I retired 2 years ago and spent much of my first year building and (insulating) my shop. It wasn't too bad but the sheetrocking was a real pain. I've decided to use metal siding/roofing instead of sheetrock on the cnc side of the shop but either way I still have to insulate first.
I've gone back and fourth between Probotix and cncrouterparts for a month or so and finally decided I'd let my Asteroid pay for my CRP PRO4848. We'll have to see how my plan works out.  Joe.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I've gone back and fourth between Probotix and cncrouterparts for a month or so and finally decided I'd let my Asteroid pay for my CRP PRO4848. We'll have to see how my plan works out.  Joe.[/QUOTE]

That's what Scottart did. His Shark paid for his Pro model in a relatively short time.

You can also build a bigger bed and frame and then get the operating stuff from Probotix, or keep switching your Astroid's) and then both machines will run on the same Linux G-code programs. You can program stuff from your main computer, load the flash drives, and then run both of the machines at the same time using the same system.

Imagine, running 2 or even 3 machines simultaneously, while your at the desk designing more stuff. Load it in the firestick, and be ready to keep cutting.

Hope you're getting a spindle instead of using a router. Worth it in the long run.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DJoe said:


> That's funny Rainman, I retired 2 years ago and spent much of my first year building and (insulating) my shop. It wasn't too bad but the sheetrocking was a real pain. I've decided to use metal siding/roofing instead of sheetrock Joe.


Joe I as going to use metal roofing for the ceiling then go with construction grade 3/4" plywood for the walls .
Today I talked with a carpenter and he frowned upon using metal for the ceiling , as he thinks it's going to increase noise to much .
Considering it takes up to half a day to cut some of these 3D carvings , maybe I better rethink this? 
Was definitely going to go with CNC Parts optional air cooled spindle to try and minimize the noise for the neighbours, but maybe the metal ceiling will defeat the purpose . Sure a lot easier to install metal though , as they cut it to length.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,
Half a day is minimal for most "3d carvings". Signs with just letters go a whole lot faster but the carvings take a whole lot longer, depending on how high a resolution you want.

HJ


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Rick, the contractor may be right but I'm hoping the ridges in the metal will dampen the sound waves kinda like the (eggshell) foam on recording studio walls. If not then it's a good thing my neighbors aren't too close.  Joe.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d I read your post on the nebula. I have spoken with Len at the factory and I am a week or 2 from pulling the trigger and ordering the nebula with the axis, spindle and dust boot collector. Are you still satisfied with machine compared to a shopbot, legacy or lugana. I am a automotive technician during the day and hobbiest at night and I can reprogram computers on cars but the software on cnc machines seem daunting. Len is suggesting vcarve pro. My question becomes is it easy to set up tool paths or am I going to be frustrated trying to learn. The $7500 price tag for all of the options does not scare me as much as the software does. Any insight would be helpful before I ask Santa for a new toy. Len also stated the internal beam is now standard.

Thanks, Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Of the three probotix CNCs we have the Nebula is the one giving me the most fits. The other two are meteors and just plug along without complaint. Our Nebula now daily throws up a limit switch error during cuts despite never approaching a bed limit. We also have measurable play/flex of the router when in the middle of the gantry beam which causes the bit to vibrate when cutting hardwoods in the middle of the bed. Those vibrations are what sets off limit 0 (X movement) errors. Our Nebula came after the two meteors and has a different brand/make/color of limits switches which may be prone to opening the circuit when vibrating. I'm on the verge of soldering their crimp-on contacts on but not sure that'll solve the problems. 

I'm wondering if slop in the bearings can be adjusted out. If not then the gantry beam needs replacing with something stiffer. 

4D


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> Of the three probotix CNCs we have the Nebula is the one giving me the most fits. The other two are meteors and just plug along without complaint. Our Nebula now daily throws up a limit switch error during cuts despite never approaching a bed limit. We also have measurable play/flex of the router when in the middle of the gantry beam which causes the bit to vibrate when cutting hardwoods in the middle of the bed. Those vibrations are what sets off limit 0 (X movement) errors. Our Nebula came after the two meteors and has a different brand/make/color of limits switches which may be prone to opening the circuit when vibrating. I'm on the verge of soldering their crimp-on contacts on but not sure that'll solve the problems.
> 
> I'm wondering if slop in the bearings can be adjusted out. If not then the gantry beam needs replacing with something stiffer.
> 
> 4D


I wonder if you could do something along these lines to the gantry extrusion? It would take some work but it might work.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Len sent me a new set of switches, because mine kept popping, too. But I had the black ones. Once the machine is homed, you can just connect the prongs with just about anything, including a paperclip, in an emergency.

He'll probably send you a set if you ask him. Something about a different supplier for awhile. 

Edison, don't be afraid of the software. If old curmudgens like cjskelton and myself can get one to cut something, you sure as heck can. You can even get hold of Bill Griggs and he'll give you a few lessons for a token fee. Don't let that hold you back. (Bill saved me a few bits and wasted material, as well as a lot of time).

The tutorials are good, but they move rather quickly and assume you know a little bit about the program and your machine. You can stop them at will and repeat as many times as necessary.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Shadowrider said:


> I wonder if you could do something along these lines to the gantry extrusion? It would take some work but it might work.


The shape of the extrusion only has a small cavity in the center which wouldn't help against twist if filled, even if it was filled solid and tight. Wood itself also twists, and the man in the video mentions the wood he inserted didn't help much against twist. 

Their gantry uses one 60mmx30mm extrusion laid flat with the guide rails bolted to top and bottom. The rails prevent the extrusion from sagging, but not against twist caused by the cantilevered weight of a 2.25hp router and the (my opinion) heavy clamp plate mount that also goes up and down with the router in front of the gantry bar. 

I'm hoping they revise their gantry design specifically to resist twist. We probably challenge our Nebula more than most with difficult hardwood cuts. I'm going to have to overhaul it over the Christmas break as the increasing limit 0 and limit 1 errors are approaching intolerable. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Or do it the right way and just get a spindle. Lighter, quieter, and lasts longer than 10 routers.


HJ

Has air cooled spindle - no regrets there


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I have included the air spindle in my estimate after talking to Len. He also stated they have added the extra beam under the table like 4d did. I also inçluded the tool sensor in the table but wander if it will work if I lower the board like everyone talks about to increase the z axis height or if Len can do it the factory. I will call him and ask about the twisting tomorrow. I would rather wait a couple of days or weeks if they can fix a problem now


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Talked with Len last week and we talked about the tool
Sensor and he told me how it works and he used a Gibson guitar as an example. I mentioned the twisting on the gàntry and he said no one has commented on it but also stated the spindle will help with problem as it is mounted closer the gantry. So I am ordering the nebula with the sensor, threaded insert spoil board, air cooled spindle, collet kit, turning axis and clamp kit for the end. I also am ordering the starter bit kit and some extra clamps. I am going to build my table with open area for the turning and extra room if I need it. My next question is do I just buy the vcarve pro or spend the extra money now for aspire. Any thoughts or comments would be helpful. This is just a hobby.


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

edison auto said:


> Talked with Len last week and we talked about the tool
> Sensor and he told me how it works and he used a Gibson guitar as an example. I mentioned the twisting on the gàntry and he said no one has commented on it but also stated the spindle will help with problem as it is mounted closer the gantry. So I am ordering the nebula with the sensor, threaded insert spoil board, air cooled spindle, collet kit, turning axis and clamp kit for the end. I also am ordering the starter bit kit and some extra clamps. I am going to build my table with open area for the turning and extra room if I need it. My next question is do I just buy the vcarve pro or spend the extra money now for aspire. Any thoughts or comments would be helpful. This is just a hobby.


Wow. I'm envious for sure!

I'm going with V-Carve Pro when I buy. You can always upgrade later for just the cost difference between the two, or that's my understanding. I've also heard that everything you learn on the VC-Pro will go into the Aspire, so you aren't losing time by re-learning in Aspire what you already learned on the VC-Pro. I hope this is the case because that's not common in the CAM software world.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Cut 2D is the basic beginning, 3D is just 2D that does a little bit more, VCarve does a little more than 3D, and Aspire does all that's available. The process is the same with each version so once you got the hang of it, you just step up to more options. Don't have to learn a new program.

Also, whenever you upgrade, you get credit for the lesser version.

If you can, just get Aspire right out of the gate. But you can get a good start with Vcarve and upgrade (with credit) a little later.

Hint: You'll want Aspire real quick if you get "addicted" to it like some of us are.

HJ

Darn toys just get more expensive as we get older!!!


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Related to twisting of the Nebula/comet gantry I'm surprised Len hasn't had any complaints about it. Of course the way we use our Nebula is for cutting furniture parts out of hardwoods up to 2" thick. And rarely are we cutting a part more than once since all student designs are different. 

The limit switches that our Nebula came with have been the most troublesome parts. First it was the one behind the spindle mount (Z axis, Limit 2) but now the ones on the gantry bar (X axis, Limit 0) go off whenever there is vibration of the bit/spindle during deep cuts in hardwoods. I blow/suck them clean and depress the switch buttons several times which will solve the problem for awhile, but not forever like I'd wish. 

It may be only one of those X axis switches that is defective but no way to tell as they are wired in series and it only takes one to open the circuit.

4D


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

4DThinker said:


> Related to twisting of the Nebula/comet gantry I'm surprised Len hasn't had any complaints about it. Of course the way we use our Nebula is for cutting furniture parts out of hardwoods up to 2" thick. And rarely are we cutting a part more than once since all student designs are different.
> 
> The limit switches that our Nebula came with have been the most troublesome parts. First it was the one behind the spindle mount (Z axis, Limit 2) but now the ones on the gantry bar (X axis, Limit 0) go off whenever there is vibration of the bit/spindle during deep cuts in hardwoods. I blow/suck them clean and depress the switch buttons several times which will solve the problem for awhile, but not forever like I'd wish.
> 
> ...


I believe LinuxCNC has a debounce setting that may fix the limit switches false triggering. 

Bill


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I ordered my nebula yesterday and it will be here on monday. I am looking forward to using it. I am also going to go with aspire as it makes sense to spend the money now while my wife and my accountant are ok with it. I will let everyone know when it is set up and running. Thanks for all of the advice and comments


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Keep us posted and don't be afraid to reach out if you have any questions. We can handle the simple ones - except for 4D and Bill Griggs - they're the pros.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Building my stand tomorrow. Nebula is 3 days away. They had to wait on a sensor so it is shipping Monday. If I build a frame at 45.75 x 61.5 outside dimensions will the nebula fit. I am leaving the inside open with no table top. Building it out of cedar posts and rails. The rails are 2" thick x6 " wide. Posts are 4" square. Like 4dthinker I am 6'2" and am building it at 40" to match my work benches. Not sure what the brackets are 4d mentioned. Is that how the nebula is held in place.

L


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The end brackets of the CNC are 1/2" thick. I simply cut 1/2" x 1/2" notches in the top of my posts, and set the end brackets in them. Two holes are 1/4" up from the bottom so I pre-drilled the post and screwed the brackets to the post.

Baltic Birch plywood comes in 60" x 60" sheets. One length + 2 thickness of the 3/4" variety (not really 3/4" thick) match the length between bracket outsides perfectly. My posts are 3.5" square. Plywood I cut into 10 inch wide strips. I now have a short shelf atop the back end of this base frame with a 3- drawer tool chest slipping perfectly under the CNC. Front half still opens up for vertical/angled cutting. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Perfect. I am going to build it this am. I will notch the posts when the machine gets here. Once it is mounted I will build a shelf or rack for the clamps and bits. Do you keep the computer on the bench or off to the side so it doesn't shake and helps keep the dust out? 

Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I have the PC and the control box on an old microwave cart to the left of the photo above. I have some filter material taped over the intakes of the PC and control box, but always vacuum the area on, around, under, and next to the CNC when done. That includes the cart gear. I also just added a ShopVac brand air cleaner to the room where my Meteor lives which I run while cutting and for 15 or so minutes after. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Got my posts cut. I was going to build a 2x6 frame around the top for stiffness but i noticed you did not. Does the bench or machine not shake without the extra rails. I do tend to over build. I am OK with the single rail if yours is working OK. I suppose I can add the extra rails later.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The CNC frame takes care of keeping the X/Y plane stiff. My 10" plywood rails take care of X/Z and Y/Z with no racking or wobble. The casters I have lock both the rotation of the wheels and the pivot when locked. Plenty solid. Rails are glued and screwed to the posts. My shelf dado notches over the end rail completely and over 1/2 the length of the side rails which should eliminate any tendency for them to bow.

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I am bolting my 2x6 at 20 inches to top of the frame. I am going to switch casters as mine lifts the posts up individualy and it may rack the machine. Thanks for the pic as it helped
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I ordered the dust boot as I have jet dust collector. I also have the overhead filtration from jet that I will run when the machine is running. I am going to put a shelf on the lower rails that will do like you said and help keep it square and keep it from racking. Once again thanks for the help. I am sure I will be asking questions on the machine next weekend .

Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Sounds like you are off to a good start, Edison. Post a Photo or two once you have it set up. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I see Probitix has a dust collection system when I went to there site , hoses and boot etc.
But it got me thinking , if I was doing a 3D sign that takes 12 hours , I certainly wouldn't want my GE DC running for 12 hours drawing an additional 14 amps the whole time would I ? Maybe best just to clean up as it's going. 

John I went threw this thread again and on your Nebula are you happy with the stiffness of the gantry ? 
Looking at the differance in size from the Meteor to the Nebula , I can definitely see where adding another extra foot to the width could cause issues if it wasn't designed correctly. I realize there's ways to avoid the vibration issue , but IMO you shouldn't have to . 

Seems like the Meteor has been a lot less trouble according to 4D when it's used in a school environment . 
I'm just wondering if a guy would miss that extra size for many projects though :|


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Good questions. Most of it is personal choice. As of now, I could probably have gotten away with just getting the Meteor for what I've done. But, down the road, if things keep going like they have, I can see the Nebula being too small. Not because of the size of the projects, but being able to lay a bigger piece of stock on the bed, and setting it to cut several components using the whole piece, eliminating the need for constant clamping, unclamping, touching off, and setting the computer for each individual cut. I have not had any problems with the gantry, but I know it's the same one on the Meteor. I don't think it could handle much more without some design changes, as it seems to be at it's limit. I can put a 3' x 4' piece of material on my Nebula, and will in the future. Wish it could be 4' x 4' - that would make for one less material cut. My next big cut will be 6 models laid out and cut from a 2' x 2' piece of 1" pine panel.

I haven't been running a dustboot, mainly because I like to see how it's cutting (it's kind of cool watching), but I did order one (got here yesterday) and will set it up this month sometime when I get the new 14 gal Ridgid vac for Xmas. It's got magnets on it so you can drop the brush from the frame and still see your details and change bits. Kind of ingenius. Jay Skelton has one and seems to like it. I got a 16' hose from Amazon that has the small end and 2 1/2" end to fit in a Ridgid 14 gal vacuum. Let me tell you, these machines make a lot of dust and chips when doing 3D carving. And running down every 10-15 minutes to blow or vacuum the debris away just gives you exercise. And it piles up. But I assume your DC system is made to be run. If you don't want to run it that much just hook it up to a shop vac of some sort. 

In the back of my mind, I see a 5 x 9 bed for volume and a smaller one, like a Astroid or meteor for carving the lettering and some detail. If the need is there, Legacy makes one with 3 cutting spindles. But Mama slaps me when I mention things like that. So the Nebula is a pretty good go between ......for now. Ouch - yes dear. 

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

John it never occurred to me about having to cut material first to fit it on the bed as most materials would have a width of 48"s (you would think ), so good point .

I think this has me back to the 4'/4' table


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Unpacking the Nebula now. Cant wait to try it out. Techs say i need to get back to work and order parts and write up invoices or customers are not going to get the cars back today. I guess I will have to wait, but sure am excited that Santa came early this year.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Unpacking the Nebula now. Cant wait to try it out. Techs say i need to get back to work and order parts and write up invoices or customers are not going to get the cars back today. I guess I will have to wait, but sure am excited that Santa came early this year.


Congrats Mark ! 
I'd be very excited right about now


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Just don't try to run a marathon before you learn to walk!!!

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I am going to mount it on the stand Wed and then read and reread


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'll report a (hopefully momentary) down side to the limit switch strategy used for Probotix's CNCs: When the switches fail, you can't use the CNC.

Today the Z-axis switch on our Nebula failed. This is the first switch tested for when homing, and ours would throw a Limit 2 error before even getting to that point. This switch is behind the router mounting plate. Our Y axis switches have been acting up, but I'd unplug them after homing and connect a jumper between the wires to work around this. They have been working at least long enough to get through homing. 

Hopefully Probotix has found a better source for switches. I've emailed support there. Waiting on a reply.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

I just called Len and he shipped me a whole new set of switches. My 0 limit has been acting up again, but like you, I been cleaning them out and crimping a little tighter to keep going. I got the replacements. Just haven't done it yet - - you know - - priorities --- deer season -- putting the machine down - - deer season ---- filling orders ----- deer season ---- afraid to touch it ---- deer season --- been working pretty good lately --- deer season. And did I mention, it's also deer season.

HJ

Sausage and jerky take priority!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> I just called Len and he shipped me a whole new set of switches. My 0 limit has been acting up again, but like you, I been cleaning them out and crimping a little tighter to keep going. I got the replacements. Just haven't done it yet - - you know - - priorities --- deer season -- putting the machine down - - deer season ---- filling orders ----- deer season ---- afraid to touch it ---- deer season --- been working pretty good lately --- deer season. And did I mention, it's also deer season.
> 
> ...


This certainly sounds like it needs to have a permanent fix . How hard can it be to design a robust limit switch?


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Hoping my switches are going to be okay as the machine was just built a week ago


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

are they green or black?

Green are the good ones.

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Mine are all green, HJ, and we got our machines within weeks of each other. I've had a few limit errors but after wiggling the connections on tighter, they haven't re-occurred.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The switch that failed completely was a green one. It was a replacement Len sent when the Z axis wasn't working right from the start on our Nebula. Our X and Y switches are black ones, and X most often now errors out so much that I use a jumper to bypass them after homing. 

I took in a red/black limit switch I had in my parts box to get Z working today. The green one I opened up to find a broken spring plate inside. The spring would have kept the circuit closed until the button was pressed, but had snapped in two. 

I got hold of [email protected] yesterday, and expect they'll be sending some switches. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

My switches are green. Wiring up my 220 cable for the spindle controller tomorrow(had to go Xmas shopping today). Unpacked computer boxes and cables yesterday. I have to email probotix as I did not get instructions on how to mount the turning axis later on unless it is on the website which I have not been to yet. Hope to !make sawdust tomorrow. Have to figure out the joystick.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Forget the joystick - - it has to be plugged in to get the machine to work. Just use the mouse and screen to zero things in.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Ok thanks for the heads up. HJ did you get the turning axis with your machine? I unpacked mine and found the head, jaws, brackets and a double track but no instructions. I will call Len later this week.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

HJ tried to power up the nebula tonight with no luck. followed instructions and clicked on icon and got 3 pages of messages that this machine was shut down with errors. Tried everything I could think of and it will not let me get past the error messages. FRUSTRATED . left your number at work


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I got the turning axis and what I think is all the parts-- don't have a clue what to do with them. I know you have to cut about a foot off the width of the MDF bed to set it all up. I'm still just carving away on flat pieces. You also have to get your own wrenches to change bits if you got the spindle, which I think you got.


Check your PM
HJ

Not nuff hours in a day to play.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

HJ thanks for the help. Who would have thought you would have to have the joystick plugged in to make the machine work especially when it does not say to do that in the instructions. Then when I went to home the gantry the right side will not move and it racked the gantry. 4d have you have any problems with the y axis not moving on 1 side or the other. I guess I will have to call len in the am


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Edison,

Only once have I had problems with the Y axis not homing, and that was because a small block of metal had dropped onto the rail on one side and kept that side from reaching the limit switch. That small block had been put under the angle above to keep it from sagging in the middle, but broke loose and dropped onto the rail. If your Y motors both moved to the front to try and home then I suspect something is blocking one. 

If you get no movement at all from one Y motor then I'd suspect the cable connection for it. They used to label the 2nd Y as "A", but if you also have a rotary axis motor then it should hopefully be labelled Y2 or somesuch. Check which port it is plugged into. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Called tech support and got Josh. I had to go to the house (as i am at work) and the right axis will move by hand. I swapped the y1 and y2 cables and now right side moves and left does not. Josh wanted to send me a new driver but I told him I did not like the idea of repairing a brand new controller so they are going to ship a new controller to me and I should have it here by thursday. We tried to use the a axis port and reprogramm the computer but it tried to home the wrong direction and that is when I convinced them to send me a new controller. Then i can start making sawdust, lol. Oh well i guess i was not meant to play with the machine which is probably good as it is my wifes birthday all this week. Thanks for the the help. 

edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Called tech support and got Josh. I had to go to the house (as i am at work) and the right axis will move by hand. I swapped the y1 and y2 cables and now right side moves and left does not. Josh wanted to send me a new driver but I told him I did not like the idea of repairing a brand new controller so they are going to ship a new controller to me and I should have it here by thursday. We tried to use the a axis port and reprogramm the computer but it tried to home the wrong direction and that is when I convinced them to send me a new controller. Then i can start making sawdust, lol. Oh well i guess i was not meant to play with the machine which is probably good as it is my wifes birthday all this week. Thanks for the the help.
> 
> edison


Sorry to hear this Mark . You've got luck like me I swear  
The gantry didn't get bent I hope when one moved and the other side didn't ?


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't know what their pre-ship testing is like. Each CNC might be plugged into a single working controller to test that all the motors work, but then the controller you get may not be 100% when shipped out if they can't plug it into a PC and CNC to do a test air-cut or somesuch. I've seen the inside of mine and can see how a controller might not get plugged in completely or may jiggle loose during shipping. 

Glad to hear you are getting a replacement. Hopefully they'll boot it up once before shipping it to make sure it doesn't have the same problem. Your case is something I haven't heard about before.

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

wont know until new controller gets here


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Controller came on yesterday. Have a honey to do list this am but will connect it this afternoon.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Picture is fuzzy as I was excited to nebula on its stand. I will post better pics later. Just learning this new mini tablet


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Fuzzy Photos excused. Glad you got your controller. Have some fun now!

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

So mad I could spit nails. New controller same problem right motor still will not move! Swap cable and it moves. I guess tech support guessed wrong. I am guessing it is a bad computer. Right now I have a $7000 boat anchor and by the time a get hold of tech support on Monday I probably won't get a computer until after Christmas. If they can't fix it they can come and get. There is nothing more frustrating than to have a piece of equipment that does not work. I have not even turned on the spindle yet. 

Sorry for the rant just blowing off steam. Has anyone else had this much problems on their new machine. I know 4d has had some problems with switches but that is after running for hours,days or weeks. I guess it is good that is a hobby and not my livelihood but thought I could make something for Christmas.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Will the aspire program i downloaded work with the legacy of Laguna Machines in case they can't fix the nebula?


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'd check the parallel cable. All data has to move from the PC to the controller over that cable. One broken or bent pin on either end could be responsible for a motor not running. 

As for Aspire, it should have post processors for the Laguna machines. Watching some of their videos it looks like that's the software they use in them. I see ten that have Laguna in the name in my Post Processor folder. Surely one or more would work. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> I'd check the parallel cable. All data has to move from the PC to the controller over that cable. One broken or bent pin on either end could be responsible for a motor not running.
> 
> As for Aspire, it should have post processors for the Laguna machines. Watching some of their videos it looks like that's the software they use in them. I see ten that have Laguna in the name in my Post Processor folder. Surely one or more would work.
> 
> 4D


Funny as I had a eureka moment as I read your post . Can't see how it could be anything differant actually. I think you called it 

To me it made no sense after the controller was replaced and it was doing the same thing . You would think the data is not getting to the controler from the computer more than anything.
I thought they used a usb port , but seeing as it's a parrelel port I can see the potential for a problem now


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mark,

Get hold of Len directly. My guess is it's like 4D and Rick say, it'll be something simple like a wire, connection, pin, or the like.

He'll stay with you til it works.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Being in the automotive profession the first thing I checked was the connections with no bent pins. Did not go to my shop and bring home an ohm meter but rarely do I see bad wiring in my line of work. When we have a bad fuel injector either it is bad or the driver in the computer is bad. I think I have a bad driver or bad computer. I guess they will have me bring up the system and check settings. If a setting is off then that tells me they are not using the computers to check the machines but are probably using the same computer for all of the machines. I guess I will find out tomorrow.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Better pics of the stand. Still have to add shelf and pullout drawer for bits and tools. I ordered the spoil board with the threaded inserts. I am going to add a bolt and washer from the underside to keep the insert from pulling out


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

One other thing to check is that the parallel cable has continuity for each pin from end to end. The flaw could be behind the pins. I also had a momentary problem when the parallel port in my linux PC came loose from the case and my cable didn't get pushed in all the way. 

I see you bought the rotary axis. I recommend mounting it so the motor/chuck is at the right front corner. I mounted mine with the chuck on the back left corner and the CNC can't reach all the way to the chuck. I moved my limit stops back another 1/2" inch or so, edited the config file, and now only have to leave 1/2" or so of unreachable extra stock on the chuck end. 

It looks like Probotix has switched motor sources for the CNC as the three I have access to all have the same green motor on all the axis. 

I'm curious if your Nebula came with a center beam under the MDF? Thought someone mentioned it was standard now. Useful if you plan on opening it up to do vertical clamped joinery.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nice looking setup Mark . I was looking at the threaded insert on the spoil board and thought that was a good option to have . Sorry things have not exactly gone smoothly and hope things turn around for you soon . 
I would be a tad choked right about now myself .


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d I am going to call Len tomorrow and hopefully he will be able to check the settings on the software. I will bring home my multi meter and check for continuity while I am talking with Len. There are 2 beams running across the width of the bed supporting the spoil board. The one closest to the end or stop switch has the clamps for dovetailing or vertical milling. I assumed the axis would go on the right side because when I ordered the machine they asked if I wanted the split board and the axis mounted or full board and mount the axis later. I thought it better to have the full board and remove it as needed.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Cable guy, I tried a couple of clamps and the inserts pulled up to the top of the board and I could pull them up of tried hard enough. I don't know how much torque there is on the material when it is being cut. As I tend to overbuild everything I do I am installing 1\2 long bolts with 2 fender washers on the under side which will pull the inserts to the bottom of the board. The inserts are 1\2 long. This will leave me enough threads and depth for my t track and clamps and there is no way for the inserts to pull out. It will take me about and hour to fix them all (88 inserts) but it will make them solid. Hopefully I will be making sawdust this weekend and not looking for another machine.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d did your nebula come with instructions on how to mount axis or is it on line. I never got any instructions on how to use it let alone mount it. 
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I have to ask len how to check the gantry for damage as it was racked about 3 inches between left and right side. I guess once it homes I will be able to check it. Who knows.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The threaded inserts should have been installed on the bottom of the MDF rather then the top. Their flange would have prevented them from being pulled up when a clamp pulled on them. Flipping the MDF over would be the easy solution. If you have the tool sensor you'll just need to make a hole for it on the opposite side. You may be able to have the CNC cut that hole before flipping. 

No instructions for the rotary axis I could find. A bit of a trick getting the inside screws to align with insert nuts. Basically it drops over the rail then bolts in. The ways rail pins into it and then bolts under the rail on the opposite end. Have the nuts for the tail stock in the rail before installing it. 

If mounting on the front right you'll have to slide the E-stop over. Two screws in the back you'll see after opening it up. Not sure how much slack there is in the wire leading to it.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> The threaded inserts should have been installed on the bottom of the MDF rather then the top. Their flange would have prevented them from being pulled up when a clamp pulled on them. Flipping the MDF over would be the easy solution. If you have the tool sensor you'll just need to make a hole for it on the opposite side. You may be able to have the CNC cut that hole before flipping
> 
> 4D


I'm loosing my confidence with this company


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

TheCableGuy said:


> I'm loosing my confidence with this company


I'm pretty sure I've heard the same disappointment from a few others who bought from Probotix before they finally got their machines working. Mine came with some shipping damage and I felt a bit the same, but Probotix took care of me. My CNC has run nearly perfect since. All CNCs have many things that all have to work right before they can be productive. I've seen dust in the wrong place shut down a $70,000 Multicam CNC. The router clamp on my CNC Shark cracked after a year or two. Odds are you will have a thing or two to deal with no matter who you buy from. I know it stings when you've made that big investment. The joy of seeing it come to life easily offsets the initial suffering though. Hopefully Probotix will answer their phone today before closing down for the holidays. I know they'll do what it takes to get your CNC running. They have always responded quickly to any trouble I've had, despite being long past any warranty. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Agreed, 4D. Len was on the phone for 3 straight afternoons with me til it was up and making dust. They are not afraid to answer their phone.

You ever get your new switches?

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Good news, my machine is up and running. Parrall port cable ($8.00) was bad. Len talked me through switching ports to a axis and machined homed out. The cable is hard to find so they are sending me a new one and i am sending the new controller back as it was not the problem. Len assured me that they use the computer that they ship with machine to start and run the machine. The only items they do not use are the cable, mouse,monitor and key board. I am more confident with them now and will talk with Len more than tech support. Tech support had me configuring wrong ports last week. Talked with len and he said on the wiki icon on their website(upper left) has the tutorial for using and mounting the axis and on using the machine in general. The threaded inserts are open on both ends with no flanges. That is why i am putting bolts with washers to hold the insertts in place. If i can find the inserts with a flange that would be mush better as it would leave the hole open to run long bolts down or to screw the material down from the under side with wood screws instead of using double sided tape or clamps. These inserts are only 1/2 inch long. I am much happier now that i can make sawdust tonight.

Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Hooray Edison! Delighted to hear (read) you've got a working machine. Inserts with a flange don't seem to come in 5/8" or 3/4". There are 20mm (.7874") but nothing in between that I've found. Amazon has 13mm (0.5118) with a 1/4-20 thread. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Figured it was something simple, Mark. Just a matter of figuring out which "simple" item it was.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d I will measure the holes that are drilled already. Did the inserts on amazon have a flange on them? 
HJ glad it was simple but glad that is over. When the new cable gets here I have to call them back so we can reconfigure the ports. in the mean time I can at least break a bit or make some sawdust.

edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Did the inserts on amazon have a flange on them? edison


You can get both kinds, flanged or not. Flanged 13mm 50ct pack:

Amazon.com: Platte River 812466, 5-pack Of 10 Each, Fasteners, Knock Down (kd), 1/4-20 X 13mm Type D Zinc Insert: Home Improvement

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Good news, my machine is up and running. Parrall port cable ($8.00) was bad. Len talked me through switching ports to a axis and machined homed out. The cable is hard to find so they are sending me a new one and i am sending the new controller back as it was not the problem.
> 
> Edison


Awesome ! 
Mark I really felt bad for you and am very happy you'll be playing with your new toy 
4D , good call


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D, You ever get your new switches?
> 
> HJ


 Sure did. In fact enough to replace all the switches 3 times if needed. 

One thing I did to fix the nagging X limit switches on our nebula was to tighten up the spade connector female halves. If anyone else has unexpected limit errors then check for a loose spade connection. If you find one then give the female half a squeeze with some pliers. I'm guessing either some oxidation on them or just wear due to vibration on the connections was more the cause than something internal with the switch. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> Sure did. In fact enough to replace all the switches 3 times if needed.
> 
> One thing I did to fix the nagging X limit switches on our nebula was to tighten up the spade connector female halves. If anyone else has unexpected limit errors then check for a loose spade connection. If you find one then give the female half a squeeze with some pliers. I'm guessing either some oxidation on them or just wear due to vibration on the connections was more the cause than something internal with the switch.
> 
> 4D


4D is that something that could be soldered? It's not like it's hard to re solder another if it's needed


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Yes, it could be soldered but the folks at Probotix don't recommend it as the switch cases are plastic. We had soldered the connections on our Z axis switch when it was giving us trouble, and it ended up being the first switch to mechanically fail from a broken internal spring plate. It also made it much more difficult to replace (needing to be un-soldered). 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> Yes, it could be soldered but the folks at Probotix don't recommend it as the switch cases are plastic. We had soldered the connections on our Z axis switch when it was giving us trouble, and it ended up being the first switch to mechanically fail from a broken internal spring plate. It also made it much more difficult to replace (needing to be un-soldered).
> 
> 4D


Yes not seeing it I was wondering if there was plastic involved . Heat and plastic are usually an issue


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> Sure did. In fact enough to replace all the switches 3 times if needed.
> 
> One thing I did to fix the nagging X limit switches on our nebula was to tighten up the spade connector female halves. If anyone else has unexpected limit errors then check for a loose spade connection. If you find one then give the female half a squeeze with some pliers. I'm guessing either some oxidation on them or just wear due to vibration on the connections was more the cause than something internal with the switch.
> 
> 4D


What does the Spade connector look like?

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d found the 20 mm length inserts. I found the problem with the ones on the spoil board. They are hammered on so they slice the mdf and pull right back out. The ones from Platte river are just like the ones at home depot and they thread in. I installed 2 and could not pull them out with a clamp. The holes are drilled and recessed for the flange on top so i will most likely put them back in that way. The 20 mm will stick through the bottom but there is nothing below to interfere with. If get 1 or 2 that don't hold I could run them up from the bottom. Got the dust port fitting tonight so i am going to run something on Saturday. Too many directions and parties. I will keep in touch and have a Merry Christmas. Thanks for the help and advice from yourself and HJ.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

HJ the spade connector is going to be a rectangular cavity. Picture your wall outlet as the female spade connector and your plug for electrical drill as 2 male spade connectors. When your outlet gets loose you replace it. With these you can squeeze them and the male will fit tighter !along for a better connection.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> What does the Spade connector look like?
> 
> HJ


What Edison said:

http://www.amazon.com/Seismic-Audio...d=1450755718&sr=8-5&keywords=spade+connectors

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

OK, they're the push on connectors. I've already squeezed mine a couple of times.

Thanx

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Merry Christmas everybody


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Merry Christmas everybody


You to Mark . So are we cutting ?


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Merry Christmas everybody


And to you.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I have outlaws in town so we are golfing everyday so won't be cutting until Monday night. I have made sure machine homes several times. I have picked up 6 panels from Lowes so I am ready.I did get all of my t tracks cut and ready.

Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

TheCableGuy said:


> edison auto said:
> 
> 
> > Merry Christmas everybody
> ...


Going to try to Monday night


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Going to try to Monday night


I admire your patience! I was so anxious when my Meteor showed up I had it plugged in and cutting something while still sitting on the crate pallet.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> I admire your patience! I was so anxious when my Meteor showed up I had it plugged in and cutting something while still sitting on the crate pallet.
> 
> 4D


Yes that would drive me nuts.

Mark I'm assuming the gantry is ok . I hate the thought of one side moving and not the other


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Gantry is OK. Waiting for the outlaws to leave town. Golfed today and tomorrow and dinner out every night. Found out they are staying until Weds. Argh. I want to make sawdust.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

TheCableGuy said:


> 4DThinker said:
> 
> 
> > I admire your patience! I was so anxious when my Meteor showed up I had it plugged in and cutting something while still sitting on the crate pallet.
> ...


I am looking through the tutorials late at night so when I do get to cut I don't screw up too bad.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> I am looking through the tutorials late at night so when I do get to cut I don't screw up too bad.


I like the one idea I think John mentioned , try it with a piece of styrofoam first


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Outlaws leave tomorrow. Sawdust this weekend finally


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Outlaws leave tomorrow. Sawdust this weekend finally


The suspense is killing me! LOL


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I dunno... sounds like he's stalling.  Whenever I have company I can get at least the men distracted and entertained by showing them the CNC. Not enough to just walk around it and point. Usually cut something they can take with them when they leave.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

It's intimidating, especially for us old codgers. Remember the trouble I had getting started. Just being alone to learn the basics on my own terms and time was my preferred method. I can almost guarantee Mark will have something cut this week end, now that his shop is down for the holiday and he's got some "me" time. It's just the way we "mature" guys operate. It's kind of scary and exciting at the same time.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> It's intimidating, especially for us old codgers. Remember the trouble I had getting started. Just being alone to learn the basics on my own terms and time was my preferred method. I can almost guarantee Mark will have something cut this week end, now that his shop is down for the holiday and he's got some "me" time. It's just the way we "mature" guys operate. It's kind of scary and exciting at the same time.
> 
> HJ


Maybe Marks going to celebrate tonight seeing at its New Year's Eve , and be to hung over to try


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I know, John. I'm 3/4 the way to codger myself. Although with company in the house perhaps the more minds thinking about it the quicker to the task. That's why these forums are beneficial isn't it? 

All in fun though. I'm actually struggling today to come up with something to cut on my Meteor. 3D printed some motor shaft bumpers a day or two ago. Got tired of getting poked as I worked around the CNC. Trying to get my boss to buy me a comet to dedicate to vertical and angled cutting as that is in growing demand from my students now that they realize the potential of these CNCs. Thinking about making a 1/3" or 1/4"=1" scale copy of a mission style end table I've made using conventional tools to demonstrate to my upcoming class how all the joinery in it can be done on a CNC.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

My next "project" is to use Aspire to design a freestanding display unit with either 3 or 4 shelves. This is going to be starting from the beginning again for me, since I've concentrated on letters, signs, and carving so far, and I don't have a clue how to even start designing parts.

HJ

Hates and loves the new stuff at the same time


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you know how to build the display unit without using your CNC, then using the CNC is just substituting what operations it can do easier for doing it the old way. Dados into the sides for the shelves, perhaps? Profile of the sides? Any carved or inlaid embellishments. 

I don't do anything on the CNC that is still more efficient to do using another tool. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Closed shop today so I could play. I tried to power up the spindle but could not get it to turn on. I want to !make sure it works before I put a bit in it. Not sure what I am doing wrong unless the bad cable for the y axis is messing up the spindle also.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Leaving for dinner and a movie in an hour then hjome tonight. Tried looking up on probotix website no luck. Called them this am and they are gone til !Monday. Tomorrow I will try it again. I followed the quick guide but no luck. I thought I could turn the spindle on without having any stock on the table or coridinates in the program.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Is your spindle plugged into the control box? If so and there are two plugs, try the other one. I know on the three I oversee only one will turn our routers on and off with the job. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Yes it is plugged in. I am going to make sure I have 220 on my lines in the morning. Otherwise i have checked my wiring and the vfd was wired from probotix. If all of my connections are good then it is another saga in my life of woodworking and trying to use my cnc machine. Who would have thought a 8 dollar cable would be bad. I wonder if they use this controller during testing.
Esison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Checked voltages this am and I have my 220 volts and ground. Ran the machine thru cutting a Harley Davidson sign and tool about 10 minutes cutting air. Was neat to watch on the screen where it was on the wood. Still no spindle. Will have to wait into
Monday. Another 4 day weekend wasted


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

edison auto said:


> Checked voltages this am and I have my 220 volts and ground. Ran the machine thru cutting a Harley Davidson sign and tool about 10 minutes cutting air. Was neat to watch on the screen where it was on the wood. Still no spindle. Will have to wait into
> Monday. Another 4 day weekend wasted


Omg! 

Not the way I wanted to see you starting out 2016


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I know. It will be OK come Monday. In the mean time I will finish my stand and tool drawer. Finished my t tracks and have !y first piece of wood loaded

Edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

There's no breaker or switch on the spindle that you've overlooked ?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

There sites down too


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I noticed proboix.com is down as well. They might be updating it and have it down for that. Or it may have crashed and since no one is in the office they may not even know. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

They might be either updating the site or doing that "maintenance" thing I keep hearing about. I know Len watches his emails even when he's off.

4D,
I'm thinking it's either something with the cables or wrong port hook up. He's got the same spindle I got, and I don't see any breaker or switch on it. His spindle controller is a whole lot different
than mine, but the same principle.

You ever change bearings on your machines yet?

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Just checking in before going to the movies. There is no breaker like HJ said. I have swapped cables, plugged and replugged with no change. I wonder when they walked me through changing ports for the bad cable if something got turned off somehow. If not then i probably have a bad invertor just my luck. I will try rebooting 3 more times tomorrow then give up until Monday.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> 4D,
> 
> You ever change bearings on your machines yet?
> 
> HJ


We are off for holiday break until next week, and I don't have a key to the new shop building yet where the Nebula is. I plan on taking out the bed so I can get into the frame to inspect/replace switches/bearings as needed. I also need to remount the 4th axis so the motor is at the front rather than back. Once I get access to the larger Multicam CNC we have I will be cutting out braces and panels to redo the bed for better stiffness, and easier clamping both horizontally and vertically. The front half will get an updated angle clamping jig that can go horizontal if we need the whole bed area for that. All bed inserts will be easy/quick to mount/unmount when needed. I know I've got a student's cabinet project that is already assembled which needs leg mount joinery cut on the bottom. I'll need to hang her cabinet inside the frame. 

My boss is out-of-touch until Monday so I don't know if I'll be getting a third CNC as I requested. If I do it'll be a Comet that I'll get with an air-cooled spindle and configure for mostly angled/vertical joinery cuts. 

2016 should be an interesting year.

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> .
> 
> My boss is out-of-touch until Monday so I don't know if I'll be getting a third CNC as I requested. If I do it'll be a Comet that I'll get with an air-cooled spindle and configure for mostly angled/vertical joinery cuts.
> 
> ...


I thought you were the boss


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

TheCableGuy said:


> I thought you were the boss


Nope. Lowly associate professor. Dept. Head is my boss. Dean is her's. I have more fun teaching than I would have administrating.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Would a serious hobby user like myself have to change bearings yearly or would every other year be good nuff?

Do you have to get the bearings from Probotix or any place that sells them?

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> Nope. Lowly associate professor. Dept. Head is my boss. Dean is her's. I have more fun teaching than I would have administrating.


What you have to do is make her something simple, but nice, and then explain that you could do nicer things with the new machine.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Would a serious hobby user like myself have to change bearings yearly or would every other year be good nuff?
> 
> Do you have to get the bearings from Probotix or any place that sells them?
> 
> HJ


I haven't looked into a source yet, John. The only bearings I "might" need to replace would be on the X axis (gantry) in hopes new ones would get rid of the play/vibration of the router during heavy cuts near the center. Our CNCs get heavy use, with every use being unique. No production or duplicate parts to make. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Stand is all done. Drawer for storage. Ttrack and axis rail storage. Bottom shelf for computer storage when not on use. First piece of wood clamped and ready to go. If only I had a working spindle.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> What you have to do is make her something simple, but nice, and then explain that you could do nicer things with the new machine.
> 
> HJ


I don't have trouble making a case for an additional CNC. The backlogs of students waiting to use one are proof enough. She has already let me buy two since she's been here. There is a finite technology budget to deal with, and she has to consider requests from other faculty. Our dept. shop is now combined with the all-college shop and there are other equipment needs here. Room for another CNC is also in question. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d is it better to clamp the wood closer the edge of the machine like I have in my picture or does it matter. My thought was it would take some shake out of the gantry being closer to the support end.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Yes, the closer to the left or right of the gantry the better. Project boards clamped there would have less vibration/likelihood of setting off a limit switch on our Nebula. Didn't matter on our Meteor.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

OK thanks
Edison


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm guessing that you have already tried this but on the LinuxCNC screen there is a button for manually turning the spindle off and on. It's right below the Home All button. I turned my router off and then clicked the spindle start/stop button and I could hear a relay clicking in the control box. Can you hear the relay click on yours? If your relay is operating then it may not be the control box but something with the spindle VFD. Just trying to help. Good luck!

Jay


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

We got to get him going. This is not good so far.

That spindle box on the screen does nothing for mine. But Edison's got a totally different control box than I do. This new and improved stuff ain't so improved sometimes.

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

How do you like those longer shank bits?

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

HJ,

In order to cut anything very thick I'll either need to shove the bit all the way into the chuck or lower my tabletop between the rails. Now that Christmas is over I can get back to trying some new stuff. I may get Aspire soon. I've been wanting to cut some of the 'Aspire only' projects that Vectric publishes. I did recently figure out the keyhole gadget and put some keyholes on some of my Christmas gifts. Works like a charm!

Jay


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Jay I tried the button Thursday and ran the speed up to 12000 rpms on the screen and nothing on the spindle. I did not hear a relay click. Are you hearing it in the grey box in the spindle mount or in the vfd controller.
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I inserted a couple of bits in my spindle and moved it over my board and spoil board. I lowered my z axis to where the bit will cut through the board and hit my spoil board and made sure it will clear my clamps. I have put a1/2 piece of plywood under my board to protect my table top and inserts. I am coming home from work Monday after I get the guys rolling at the shop and calling Len and get this issue solved. I have never been so frustrated. First it was $8 cable after josh misdiagnosed it as a bad controller and I waited a week for the controller then Len correctly diagnosed it last week as the bad cable. I guess I shoud have started the spindle while had Len on the phone last week but did not think it would be a problem also. Who knew. At least the y axis problem is fixed although Len has to walk me through reprogramming the computer on Monday and putting the y2 axis back to its port and off of the a axis port now that the new cable is installed.
I can see where the longer shank bits will be nice for letting the spindle stay higher and clear clamps better. I do appreciate everybody's help and thoughts on this saga.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Proboitix.com is back online now.

As for taking two heads and an extra week to conclude the cable was bad, it kind of had to take that long. I knew it was likely the cable, but only after your second controller had the same problem running the Y axis. 

To the non-running spindle, I think I'd have shimmed/stuck a router in there just to get it cutting. In the old days we would give the collet a spin (with the router off) to re-align the brushes in hopes a motor would start on next try. Often worked, at least for awhile. 

You have a multimeter, eh? I'd check the spindle power cable/contacts at both ends. See if you are getting current where it plugs in, and see if you get the same current at the spindle end. Not sure if polarity matters, but if it does you should check that too. Plus to plus, minus to minus. 

Good luck. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Len sent me an email - he doesn't know for how long it'll be up, though. Expects more problems. He's aware of Edison's problem and this thread. 

I think his long week end has gotten a whole lot longer - and not in a good way.

HJ

The joys of business - - I don't miss these parts of it


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Reading the manual shows to swap leads of router if it runs backwards. I will try to check for power at the spindle. As for chucking up a router the only one I have small enough is a dewalt palm router. I just can't believe the cable to the spindle or the spindle is bad since it was tested at the factory. I wonder if they used this invertor or one on the bench. I have a long list of questions and complaints once I am up and running. Threaded inserts pulling out, mdf bed is not flat where the two pieces meet,no really good instruction manual on the use of the machine, how to use the inverter or even the 4th axis. The wiki link on their website is not that helpful either. I guess I am used to people like my snapon and Mac tools dealers where they call you back when you leave a message. I left 4 messages on the initial problem and never got a call. I had to call them 2 times before josh could make time then had to have Len help. I left 2 emails after the controller did not fix the problem and no response. I know from talking with everyone on this forum they are a great company and it is a great machine from what I have seen and heard on the internet. But right now it is still a 7500 boat anchor. Tomorrow will tell the tale. I have not pushed any buttons or made any changes other than what Len had me do. I followed the setup instructions except for joystick plug in which HJ told me had to be plugged in. Thanks for all the help so far. Hopefully I will be making sawdust tomorrow night, but I am not going to hold my breath. 
Edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mark I'd be so choked at this point . I live in Canada , so the problem would be far worse for me considering the time parts would be stuck at the border for days on end . I wouldn't have it going till spring if I had simular issues. 
Great machine from wha I've seen in the past , plus a great price , but definately not a great option for me from what I'm seeing


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Time will tell tomorrow. I will post results as soon as Len and o hang up the phone.
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

At least when i call and talk to len he knows what he is talking about. When i was looking at the laguna and legacy models the salesman sometimes did not have a clue what they were talking about or would have to call me back. Plus their machines were made in china and assembled in the usa. I was ready to pull the triggrer on a $15000 legacy with the 4th axis and had put a deposit down until i read forums and posts on how bad service was. Then i read about the probotix and american made and price was 1/2. I felt like 4d and others who are experienced with cnc machines know the results of their capabilities. I think i still made the right choice it is just frustrating. 4 day weekend and the only sawdust was from trimming trees and shrubs. Lol

Edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have no doubt you've made the right choice . I was tempted to go that route myself but I want to go with a 4/8 table . Seattle is where cnc parts resides , and it's a 10 hour drive for me. 
I was going to get one this summer, but our dollar has sunk so low I've kiboshed the idea for now .
Probotix would be more affordable with the exchange rate , but I'm getting a little concerned after seeing your thread and other issues such as limit switches and under designed gantries


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Edison,

We'll get you going, someway.

The MDF bed is not my favorite either. I think I'm going to order the T slots from 80/20 and make one. Just wondering if the 3/4", 1", or 1.5 inch thick is the way to go. I'm hoping the 3/4" is strong enough - that'll give me a little more Z-axis clearance.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

The 3/4 is stong enough it is just where the 2 pieces meet at rhe 1 support. I can remove the last 12 inch piece for vertical milling and the joint is raised by 1/32 to 1/16 which is not a big deal when i use a spoil board i just wont span that area. The nice thing is there are 2 cross supports holding the bed solid. I cant imagine too many times i would cut something 50 inches long anyhow. Tomorrow will tell and hopefully i will be cutting tomorrow night or by thursday night. 
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

HJ what do you mean by 80/20 tttacks and how woild you make bed out of them
Edison


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

80/20 is the name of a company that makes several items for DIY's. Think erector set for grownups. Take a peak at their website - they also have an ebay store.

They make aluminum pieces in several widths and heights, including those with slots in them so you can just slide a bolt in the track and fasten your clamp. I'm going to make a whole new bed out of this stuff, which will be 41" x 60". I just have to figure out what size and height I need and if I need any cross supports. It'll be similar to the bed that comes on a Shark, only bigger and stronger. I'll then have my buddy that owns the truck parts store order me in a bunch of grade 8 bolts in diferent lengths, washers and (wing?) nuts. I've bent and stripped too many of hardware store and Rockler bolts and nuts already.

HJ

Trying to make good better

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

With the 2x6 frame work around my nebula I could lower my bed almost 7 inches if I needed to. But that is a long way off for me. I need to cut and carve several hundred board feet before I go changing anything yet. I will look at the website for future table builds or for furniture assembly.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Just so you'll know, there is 5" total of vertical travel if you open up or lower the bed. When the router/spindle mount is all the way down though there is more potential for play/flex. I used my meteor to cut a hole through the top of my original table. Router as low as it could go, bottom of Z travel. It was doing fine until it turned a corner then got into a hop_wiggle_deflect mood and left the edge erratic where that happened. Might have been a hard spot/defect in the plywood that started it off. In any case whatever play you have in your router mount gets bigger the farther extended (down) you have it. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d do you have a spindle? My voltage coming into the invertor is 240 and Len says it is too much. I can't be the only one on the USA with good voltage. We have tried changing settings on the invertor no change. I have been home now for 3 hours now and the guys at the shop are screaming for me to get back. Len said he would call me back and that was a half hour ago. John says is lines are 220 but has never measured actual voltage. I think I need a different invertor that will handle 250 volts.
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I won't mess with my table until I cut a bunch of signs and designs first.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> 4d do you have a spindle?
> Edison


So far all of our machines are using routers. I personally don't have 220 in my shop areas either. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

All of north America averages 120V . Right now I have 121.1 volts on a single outlet and 242.2 on the other contact beside the breaker in the panel. You should be simular


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Update. We tried changing settings in this invertor with no luck. Manufacturer is overnighting a different invertor that will handle 250 volts. I checked voltage at my shop and shop next door and we both had 241 volts. I think it is just a bad inverter and it was not used to run the machine during testing. They are going walk me through programming and wiring it when it gets here. It is not a model they have ever used before. Same company. As the spindle turns(not really) tune in tomorrow or Wed for the latest episode. At this point I have to laugh as I have been mad too long.
Edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well me and probably the rest of the members are crossing our fingers . This is almost hard to comprehend and hopefully this is the last issue .


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I hope so.I talked to my brother in law on southern Illinois and he tested his outlets and he is at 120.2 volts. So between him and other people like the cable guy 120/240 seems to be the norm. Leasing me back too my original conclusion of a bad vfd(inverter). We will see. Thanks for all the good thoughts and help
Edison


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

Hi to all, I just finished reading this thread from start to finish. Very informative and interesting. First thing I'd like to do is thank 4D for all his info, and willingness to share it. Second is how much I'm appreciating what HonestJohn has gone through, because I'm hoping to pretty much do the same thing (well sorta, kinda). I got my inheritance  a and have redone the upstairs bathroom, replaced the HVAC system, and we are almost done with a mortgage refi, which will save us over $100.000 in interest over the next 15 years (guess the first mortgage wasn't really a good deal). We live in a small townhouse, and with what's left of my inheritance, I'm gonna try to have a small work shop in the basement. Gonna get a Shopsmith for the woodworking, and am looking at a CNC machine to drill the holes in the cribbage boards I wanna make. I was looking at a CAMaster Stinger1, ShopSabre 23, and the Probotix Nebula. After a lot of thinking, ( and based on a whole lot of what I've read here) I'm going with the Nebula. I can't see me ever being anything other than a hobbyist, and can't justify the $5-7K extra for the other machines, especially with my little half a car being only 300 miles away from 200,000 miles. Some of the issues I have read about are a little disheartening, and yet they all do get fixed. If 4D's students use the machine that rigorously, I gotta think I'm just about gonna use it enough to keep the rust off. I am an electrician, with no real computer skills, but as HonestJohn has done, I'm gonna jump in and see how the water is. Where I work there is a continuous supply of pallets/skids, so I figger I got a whole lot of free wood to practice/learn on. We got an estimated date of Jan 11 for the closing/signing on the refi, after that I/we gotta clear a whole lot of crap out of the basement, I'm probably gonna be lucky to get a 12 foot by15 foot area to use as a shop. Then I gotta get the Shopsmith to make the shop, and then I hope to be able to order my CNC. So hopefully for me (and maybe not so much for everyone else reading this LOL) I hope to be asking lots of questions soon, end of Feb.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Artie,

Very logical and sensible conclusions. The problems get fixed and we continue on. Kinda nice to talk to someone in IL who built the machine who actually answers the phone when you need them. They're trying to improve the product constantly, too. Everything doesn't always work as first thought.

Look at the Meteor and get away a little cheaper yet. As more and more of us lean towards Probotix the support and help between us should also increase.

And kudos to 4D - we don't call him the Perfesser for nothing.

HJ


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## artman60 (Nov 22, 2015)

HonestJohn, it's an interesting decision to make. This is very likely my only chance to buy a CNC machine, I kinda gotta do it right. My main train of thought going in is to get cribbage boards drilled out, but having known myself for almost 56 years now, I'm positive I will be trying to make hope chests, yarn racks for the Missus, and pretty much anything else that catches my fancy. I'm not sure of too many negatives for getting a machine that turns out to be bigger than I need (cost, space, but both of these are pretty negligible), but the negatives for finding out the machine you got was too small has some serious negatives. It appears that a lot of the issues seem to be electrical, I'm an electrician so I should be able to be competent there, the computer stuff on the other hand ??????? Unlike when I bought my first boat, as a no nothing land lubber, I figger the dangers of learning how to get competent on the machine are mostly to the machine, and wood/bits. I can see this getting addictive, who knows, maybe by next Thanksgiving I'll be making monogrammed toothpicks for everyone LOL. This is a very informative forum, and also very friendly, glad I found it. Artie


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Good morning to all. Here is the latest on my saga as the spindle does not turn. Probotix shipped me a new vfd(inverter) a sufar e300 and it was not programmed as it came straight from the factory. The manual they sent in the email tells what each button does but not the proper steps to change the parameters to make my spindle work. I tries for over to hours to change the parameters to the ones they sent me in the email with no luck. I
emailed Len and he could not help becuase he did not have one in front of him and won't be getting one until today. It is the same as Honest Johns but his came preprogrammed. Hopefully they will get it today and I can make sawdust tonight. They say they used my original vfd when the machine was tested but I guess things can break on transit although there is no physical damage. I will let you all know tonight.
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

To Artman60 I looked at spending $12-15000 on a machine as money was not a concern. I went with nebula also based on 4d and Honest Johns posts as well as the fact that is American made. However they are still using Chinese electronics which is where all of my problems have been. Len is very knowledgeable and will stick through it until he finds the problem. Hopefully mine will be done tonight. I like the size of it and the 4th axis I may never use but I got it anyway. I also went all the way on the software with aspire as it made sense rather than upgrading from one version to another. There are a lot of things you can do with the aspire and I can't wait to get started. Just my thoughts.
Edison


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Artie,

My Nebula bed has been more than ample for what I've done so far, and would serve even the most serious hobbiest well. But, as my mind twists and turns I see a bigger piece of material being laid down with several cuts nesting the whole thing. I think they call that production, but the cost of errors is greater, too. It's kind of nice to be able to lay out and cut more than one of an item without having to unclamp, reclamp, load a new program, and redo the touch offs. I have done as many as 8 items with one cut program. You also have less waste doing more than one cut at a time. 

The Meteor is a very good hobby sized machine. Takes up less space and is a little cheaper. But I've always been in the buy the biggest you can afford at the time camp - or figure what you "need" and then up it a size or two.

HJ


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Here is an online manual for this. In the default mode, you should be able to wire it up like shown and use the buttons on the face of the vfd to at least start it and adjust the speed.
See attatchment.


Guess I can't post URLs yet, just Google Sunfar E300 manual


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Here is the manual for the Huanyang inverter. This is what was on my 2 machines that I got from Probotix. It does state that they will work on voltages to 240VAC.

If I can be of some help, let me know.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Looking at the parameters for the Sunfar and basing them off of the settings on the Wiki for the Huanyang, this is how I would set up the Sunfar.

F0.1 = 1
F0.2 = 0
F0.5 = 3

You will probably have to change both F0.4 & F1.3 = 400. This is the upper frequency setting and the max frequency setting. The max setting has to be equal or above the upper freq setting.

You will still need to push the run/stop button to start this and either give it a speed reference signal using the + &- buttons in the software or by Gcode (ex: M3 S12000).

I set mine up with some wiring changes so that I did not have to push the run/stop button on the vfd. It required a change in the controller wiring (using the spindle relay as vfd start signal) and also changing parameter for external control (for the Sunfar it would be F0.2 =1). There would also be an additional 2 wires from the controller to the vfd. Having it setup this way, the Gcode has control of the vfd. I recommended to Len that they do this for all vfd setups.

Hope this makes sense


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Hello everyone. It lives. My spindle is up and running. Josh emailed me the parameters yesterday but i could not change them. Today he emailed me instructions and i went home and he walked me through it and it works. While i had him on the phone we moved my y2 cable from aaxis port back to y2 and reconfigured the computer. I do have to hit the run button during testing to make it work. I will wait until i have run some cuts and see if the gcode turns it on or not. I am going to make sawdust tonight no matter what. My excitement is back.
edison


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Hooray!! Have fun! Glad you finally got it going.

Jay


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Awesome Mark , this is great news


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Great news indeed! I'm vicariously giddy with excitement for you. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Edison made dust tonight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And...... learned about clamping, broke a bit, got a lesson in Aspire, learned about clamping and spoilboards, got a bunch of new ideas, and did I mention he learned about clamping.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Thanks to HJ I made dust,broke abit and yes I learned about clamping. I also learned that the hammer on threaded inserts will pull out. Now that I know I am keeping the machine all 88 inserts will be replaced with screw in style. Did I mention I learned about clamping. Twice the board came loose. Once with my 1/8 end mill which broke and with my 60 degree v carve. John and I came up with new approaches to clamping and boards will not spin again. I am ordering 10 of the 1/8 fishtail end mill bits 3 inch long from precise tomorrow with overnight freight so I can carry on this weekend. Aspire is pretty neat and John was a great teacher tonight. I owe him big time. Dreaming of projects. Did I mention I learned about clamping
Edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mark I'm super happy to hear your playing with your new toy , broken bits or not


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

1/8" end mills are easy to snap. I've rediscovered 3/16" spiral upcuts and downcuts will get very close to the precision 1/8" bits will, are longer for deeper pocketing or profiling, and seem to remain intact (until I jog one unspinning right through a clamp at least). They will more often have 2 flutes where a 1/8" bit may only have one, so can remove twice the wood in front of them at the same forward speed. 

When I do need to use a 1/8" bit I've gone to ones cut from solid carbid, with 1/8" shafts, in a collet reducer from Rockler. Bought in 5 or 10 packs, and with the potential for deeper cutting than any 1/8" bit with a 1/4" shaft. 

4D


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Edison,

Glad to hear that you are up and running! Hope that you will find that your machine's limits are only defined by your imagination.

I am curious what parameters you ended up needing to change on the Sunfar. Also, did you get the 1.5kw or 2.2 kw spindle?

Dave


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d thanks for the input. I am going to order the 1/8 3 flutes long cut from precise bits and also order some of the 3/16 spiral cuts and do some comparisons.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Dave I got the 2.2. The settings i had to change were f0.0 to 1, f0.4, f0.12 and f1.3 to 400 and f0.2 to 1000. The only thing I have to get working now is my rotary knob will not control spindle speed. It is all done on the computer. John and i worked on signs last night for 3 hours. He has the same vfd and he changes his speed with the rotary button andcannot change it with the computer. The rotary button is so much faster as the computer jumps in 100 rpms. I have to call josh at probotix and find out what parameter to change.
edison


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Gee these spindles sound like there a pita at the beginning . I like the idea of a spindle noise wise though


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

When the machine comes from the factory, everything is already preset. His replacement came overnighted right from the manufacturer and had to be set for his machine.

Still, the spindle is the only way to go, in my opinion.

HJ


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Edison,

To use the "pot" on the VFD face, you need to change parameter F0.0 to 3 instead of 1.
Just so you know, when you do this, you will not be able to change the speed either in the software or Gcode.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Dave,

So then he could change the speed with the knob, but would have to use the stop/run switch - correct?

That's how mine is. Only had to break one bit and now I remember to turn it on. I just added it to the check-off list before setting it off.

Actually, I like it better this way - - more control, it seems.

HJ


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Not sure what software you are using to create your signs, but normally you would set the speed of the spindle in the toolpath (.ngc) file. If you are using Vectric products, the rpm is set in the tool setup.

Here is an example:
M3 S12000

M3 = start spindle
S12000 = 12000 rpm

If you look at your _.ngc file, you would normally see this towards the beginning of the file. You can manually edit the _.ngc file with any text editor.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

HJ,

Yes, you would still have to use the run/stop button initially. What software are you using to create your toolpaths?


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Here is what the beginning of one of my files looks like.

_G64 P0.01
G17 G20 G40 G49 G58 G80 G90 G94
G00 Z0.8000 S12000 M3
G0 M8
G4 P1.5 (pause for spindle accel)_


See where I have S12000 M3 - this turns the spindle on @ 12000 rpm
M8- turns on my vac
G4 P1.5 pauses all axis movement for 1.5 secs to allow for the spindle to come up to speed. You can change to allow for a longer pause by changing 1.5 to whatever you want

Hope it make sense
Dave


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

ave,

I use Aspire, but I have no idea where to go for the other settings.

HJ


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

HJ,

I don't want to insult anyone on this forum, but I am new here and don't know how familiar anyone is with Gcodes and the like. I haven't been doing it very long myself, but other than my own homemade machine, all my cnc experience has come from using the Probotix machines and mostly Vectric V-Carve desktop and a LOT of online searches. I have been involved with several Probotix machines, including the Comet, Meteor and the Asteroid models, that I have modified to be used with a large cabinet manufacturing company for specific use machines to free up time on their "real" machines. I have met Len several times and had him in the plant to help install the new controllers on a few of our machines.

As far as setting the spindle speed in Aspire, it is done in the tool selection along with your feed and plunge speeds. After it is set and you have created your toolpaths, it will show up in your toolpath file. I guess I shouldn't assume, but I figured you were using a Probotix machine, so your toolpath files have the .ngc suffix.

What post processor are you using in Aspire to create your tool path? Is it the standard LinuxCNC Arcs(inch)(*.ngc).pp or one of the newer ones including LinuxCNC_G64_Arcs_inch.pp?

You can edit the post processor and include the G4 P1.5 (pause for spindle accel) automatically everytime that you save the tool path if you want.

I have attached 3 pdf files showing the tool selection, post processor and a snippet from the ngc file showing the spindle speed code.

As I stated in the beginning, I do not want to insult you or anyone here, just trying to find out what your process is and if I can help in some way to make things easier. It's definitely been a continual learning experience for me!


Dave


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Dave,

Not going to insult me. I'm just an old school guy trying something new in retirement. I do have a Nebula and use post processor code EMC2-G64 Arcs(inch)(*.ngc) ------------ just cause Len said to use that one. I just do what I'm told by those who know more than me.

I'll never be real proficient with it, but should keep busy and make a few bucks to help feed the habit.

HJ

Past learning much more new stuff


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I just got off of the phone with josh and he stated that when you choose your tool bit you choose your spindle speed and it will start the spindle when you launch the program just as Dave stated. Welcome to the forum Dave. I don't think we can ever have too much information. If i would have read the forum before I called Josh my ? would have been answered. Did I mention I learned about clamps last night. Lol. 
Edison


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Get your bits today, Mark?

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Ordered them this morning after speaking with Ron and he said they should be here tomorrow. I ordered the 3 flute 2.5 inch overall length bits. He showed me the sweet spot test from the website. I ordered 10 of the end mills. I forgot to order the spiral upcuts 4d talked about. Got side tracked talking to Ron. He mentioned an extremely hard mdf board empregenated with plastic called extira made for outside signs that works well for a spoil board. He also mentioned adding a ground cable to the spindle to cut down on some noise but mostly electrical noise and make the bearings last longer as long as the machine is grounded to earth. He asked how fast I was running the bit and feed rate when it broke and I told him I learned alot about clamping as the board moved and twisted. I told him about the inserts and he repeated what 4d said and they should have been installed from under the bed not top side. I am going to resarch the new board he talked about. I am going to replace my inserts with twist in insets instead of the hamnered in Len installed.
Mark


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mark,

Ron's a good guy. He knows what he's talking about.

He's right on grounding the frame. Cuts down on the static electricity that can screw with the computer settings. Awful disheartening to be almost done with something and then see the bit take off in the wrong direction.

Let me know when you try to start cutting again. 

And..................watch that clamping!!!!!

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mark , who's accountable for putting the inserts in the wrong side of the spoil board? Any compensation 
.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I suppose it would be probotix. I ordered the board and it came that way. I asked Len about it and he said he would check into changing to the screw in style inserts. He said you can't apply over 5 lbs pressure. Either way I have to change them out. He said some people even epoxy them in place. I have tested them screwed in place top side and they will not pull out. So I could replace them all with the screw in style at $70. Next option is to drive them out and install them from the underside. I am leaning towards screw in from top as the recessed holes are there already there and easier than sitting on the floor and driving the inserts in from underneath.
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

It was a $100 upgrade for the bed inserts. I have not asked about a refund yet since having all the other problems just happy at this time to make sawdust.
Mark


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm happy to see things turned around for you Mark . That was a terrible experiance you went threw and I'm glad it's resolved . 
That's a big investment IMO


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

That's a big investment IMO[/QUOTE]


Heck ya it is. Gotta be 2, maybe 3 insulation jobs.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> That's a big investment IMO



Heck ya it is. Gotta be 2, maybe 3 insulation jobs.

HJ[/QUOTE]

Pretty close


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

What is worse is the money I lost at the shop driving back to the house 4 times and 10 hours shop time spent here at the house and customers having to wait to get their cars done. I was able to make the time up and get the cars done slightly behind schedule but done none the less. The spoil board inserts are not that big of a deal a couple hours of time and some money. It just aggrivating that you pay for something that is not right. Once I run some boards and will call Len and talk about a refund on the board and some other things. This weekend signs are coming out and sawdust is flying. Did I mention I learned about clamps. Lol
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Clamps are a lesson every new CNC owner has to learn on their own. My first CNC was a CNC Shark from Rockler/NextWave. Rockler bundled two of their t-track clamps with it, and I assumed two would be enough. Two good c-clamps always seemed to be enough in every other woodworking application where a board shouldn't move while working on it. My first test cut the CNC simply pushed my board out of place under those two clamps. Within a few minutes I was ordering more, and thinking hard about other clamping strategies. A good clamp for these Probotix CNCs should bear against both the side and top of ay project board. They should also be low profile, especially if used on the back side under the gantry. 

If using Aspire or VCarve Pro there is a setting on the toolpath menu under SET at the top left. Rapid Z Gaps above Material defaults to .2". This is how high above your board the CNC will lift the bit to move between cuts. If your clamps may be in the way during travel from one to another cut, you can change the (Z1) clearance to a higher value that will lift over the body of your clamps. 

4D


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

I have been using these inserts from McMaster Carr. They thread in from the top. If your hole is not larger than 3/8", you could remove the ones you have and install these very easily. As far as the tee nuts, I have also used them, but they need to be inserted from the bottom. I would use a bolt, nut and washer and pull them into the holes as you can't get a hammer in there.


Dave


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d I had 4 clamps on my wood and 1 side against a solid brace. The problem with the clamps is that the inserts were pulling out. Dave I have those threaded inserts in stock at my shop. I use them for furniture assembly and those are what I am going to install. I think I am going to bolt a piece of 3/4 plywood to my bed and then screw thru the piece that I am cutting. I plan to leave enough material around the sign or whatever i am cutting to clamp to anyhow so maybe screwing it will hold and I will not have any height issues regarding clamps. I know it will take 5 minutes longer to screw the board down but I feel like it will be safer in the long run. The only problem I can see with this method is if my piece does not have extra material to trim off at the table saw. Any thoughts are appreciated.
mark


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

There are some really good double sided tape with amazing holding power and very thin. I don't have any part numbers for you, but it works great...and solves the problem of clamps.


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

I've had a Meteor since last April and my plan was to use either double sided tape or screws to hold my material in place until I felt proficient using the machine. I'm almost there, finally. I made some deep gouges and broke a couple of bits in the learning process. I'll soon replace the spoil board, carve the table grid and put in screw-in inserts. I'm thinking of dropping the spoil board between the rails to get an extra 3/4" Z axis travel. With the new table grid in place, I'll begin using clamps and putting a thin sacrificial panel under the workpiece. BTW, the table grid toolpath is in a folder on all new Probotix machines. If you have an older machine, they also have the table grid toolpaths for each model on their Wiki page here: G-Code Files - PROBOTIX :: wiki

Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I saw this tip on a Youtube Video I can't seem to find again or I'd link to it. It is about setting Z height to the top of your material during material setup in Aspire/Vcarve, but Touching Z off at the spoilboard top. You Touch off at the spoilboard, but enter in negative your material thickness rather than zero. Given that most material fluctuates in thickness this is a way to ensure your through cuts will get through. 

This expects your spoil board to have been milled flat by the CNC. 

Jay: When you drop your top between the rails, be sure to support it the same on all sides. I used strips of BB plywood to make a ledge my top sits on. I found a plunge cut made too fast could still visibly flex my spoilboard down. I'd used two bolts into twist nuts in the side tracks for each strip, but the plywood would still deflect between the bolts. I've since milled HDPE strips that have a raised center section to register in the side grooves. This keeps them straight/stiff all along their length, and two bolts is enough to keep them in place. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I noticed when looking at the computer i saw the grid for my bed on the nebula so i can always run the program again if I need to. Dave I know double sided tape is good as a lot of trim pieces are attatched to cars going down the highway but I also know it can come loose. I think I am going to be like Jay and try screws until i get comfortable. As far as dropping the bed lower I may cross that bridge when I carve something too thick for the gantry or spindle. Also because i have 2 cross supports at 21" and 14" i don't know if i can lower my bed with out loosing stiffness. I know talking with 4d and John, they don't have cross supports. My aspire cd's just arrived. Didnot know I was getting them, I thought it was just what was downloaded from the internet was all we got. I guess this is good in case a system goes down. Plus I can design and learn while I am at work making money. 
Edison


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Clamping or screwing is by far the best way, though I have had really good luck with the tape as long as both surfaces are clean. I have actually broken some thinner stuff trying to get it off. You can set your "safe height" in Aspire to avoid your clamps. Just keep in mind the further the Z has to raise up each time, the longer the file takes to run.
As far zeroing to either the top of the material or to the spoilboard, this is what I do. If you are engraving, always zero to the material surface and make sure that the surface is even. If cutting through the material, zero off the spoilboard. That way if your material is not perfectly flat, it will always cut all the way through and will leave very little marks on your spoilboard. You can set it up either way in Aspire.

Dave


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

BTW, you are allowed to put Vectric's software on up to 3 machines as long as you are only using one at a time.


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Nice anniversary sign, Dave. Need to make one for the missus. 

Mark, I used tape at first but after I scuffed up the surface of the spoilboard it didn't hold well. Screws work very well for me. Just allow a little extra material so you can avoid cutting very close to them. I've hit a couple of screws when I tried to cut it too close. A little extra wood is better than breaking an expensive bit. Have fun and post some photos of your projects. I put mine in an album on this forum. Check it out.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Nice work Jay, I like the dinasour it looks pretty cool. Thanks for sharing
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I may wind up just flipping my bed over so all of the inserts will be coming in from the bottom. I will save me money and time in the long run. Since the gcode is there for cutting the grid patten, I could cut it if i really need to or want to. I will just have to redrill my touchoff point hole for my sensor and counter sink the holddown bolt holes.4d made that suggestion a week or 2 ago. still thinking
mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> I may wind up just flipping my bed over so all of the inserts will be coming in from the bottom.
> mark


The best ideas are usually the simplest. You could have the CNC pocket out the hole on the opposite side to be there ready to slip over the switch when you flip it. Measure and mark where it should be, then mark the center. Draw up a circle to pocket with the origin at the center. Center and touch off the bit where your new hole needs to be. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Looked at bed last night and realized i couldn't flip bed because hold down bolts are drilled over 1/2 way through and couldn't recess bolts without drilling new holes. Going to replace inserts and bolt 3/4 piece of plywood as my spoil board and screw my material down. Shouldn't take over 2 hours and cost less than $100.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Ah yes, those pesky bed bolts!  I've had my bed tucked into my frame rather than on top of it for so long now I forgot how deep the bolts were recessed. 

Show us a photo once you've got it all done, Edison. Curious minds, ya know.


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Took just over an hour to knock out old inserts and glue and screw in new ones. Mounted 3/4 plywood fpor spoil board from underside with 20 screws. Stock mounted waiting on bits. Will vcarve something tomorrow. I have 3/8 before I hit a screw top in spoil board. Should never cut that deep anyhow.
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Checked on my bits and plane left Colo late and did not get here until today so will have bits on Monday.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Signs of snow here in Kansas. Always comes from the west. That may be what held up your plane in Colorado. 

Your bed with the new inserts looks great, Edison. BTW any old router bit will work if you have some. Not as well as the spiral upcut carbide variety, but I've pulled old straight fluted steel bits from my drawer when I couldn't wait for a shipment of new, and found they'll cut wood too. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Another question. I'm cutting a 3 piece project out of 1 big piece of acrylic. Looks like all is going well. Then I noticed the line count was stuck on 16 but the machine is about 1/4 done with the cut and still chugging along. Is this something that will be cured when I do a new project and reboot the machine, or do I have some concerns.

I won't pause it or do anything to it at all as long as she's still cutting, but I'm in a world of hurt if I have to pick it up someplace before it's done. 

It's nothing important, just making a couple things for the grandson so I guess that's the good part.

That acrylic sure sends the chips flying all over.

HJ


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Mark, Your machine looks great and ready for action. Things are really looking up. Can't wait to see a few new projects from you.

HJ, You must not have your dust collector yet. It will catch all those acrylic chips. You'll love it.

4D, After looking at how Mark put the plywood on top of his spoilboard I was wondering if I could temporarily mount a new MDF spoilboard on top of my old one and have the CNC drill all the mounting holes as well as carve the table grid and insert holes. Will it move that far out to the edge or would it hit the stops?

Jay


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Thanks for the comments on the board. Jay I will Chuck up a bit and check the x and y on the spoil board and see if it hits the limit switches or not. The program is in my computer for the nebula so I assume it will cut it. 4d I have some spiral upcuts and some ball nose bits so I am going to do some carving tomorrow.HJ has been helping me learn how to use the aspire. Pics will be coming.yea yea
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I don't have or plan to get/do the table grid, so I can't tell you if it can be cut with the machine itself. There is value in having a track or threaded holes out past the limits though, simply so you can clamp something down that extends right to the limit.

I know Probotix has a larger CNC they cut spoil boards on, as they have to cut the perimeter and all the bolt holes around the edge. 

These CNCs have a potential cutting area that is larger than the advertised dimensions. The home routine only finds the front and left limit switches. I noticed than mine couldn't move all the way to the rear and right limit stops. There is a line in the .ini file that lists the length and width, and if you change these values you can get you machine another inch or more of range. Have it home/center perfectly in the middle of the bed. I even moved my rear limit stops back another 1/2" to get the machine closer to my 4th axis chuck. I've got 52.5" front to back now, and 26.5" left and right on my Meteor. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d glad you mentioned the outside limits. I am glad I read and reread these forums. I clamped my stock that I am going to cut this afternoon to the outside edge of my plywood which matches the mdf bed which means I and most likely outside my cutting area. Glad I did not start already. I will draw a line or better yet cut a line that will be my reference edges on my plywood. I should be able to lay it out in aspire by measuring my outside dimensions and where the grid starts on the mdf. I noticed there is about 1.5-2 inches on each side and of course 7-8 at the far end where the gantry stops. Thanks for the insight professor
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Just remembered i have the gcodes loaded in my machine. Duh. I shoild be able to run it and cut the grid in my plywood. 
Mark


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Mark,
Josh at Probotix says to load a v-bit and touch off the z axis to the spoilboard. The toolpath file handles the other offsets by using the machine coordinates. Let me know how it works.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Jay,

I got the dustmop, a new dedicated 14 gal Ridgid vac, and a 16 ft hose --------------- all in the boxes yet. I got to do a little (ok- a lot) cleaning up, rearranging, and setting up. Got a bunch of oak piled at the back of the table (where the vac will go) that I have to start jointing and laminating and finding a new place to stack. Should probably just quit cutting for a few days and do it, but, ugh, I really don't want to cause one thing always leads to another.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Jay just loaded vbit and touched off z axois and message came up line 20 will run past limits continue any way. I hit yes the machine moved then stopped. Looks like I am reading negative on my x axis. Trying to figure it out now.
Edison


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

May have been using wrong file trying different file now. Loaded new file watched it cut air for 3 minutes. Now loading bit and retrying.
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Cutting grid out now. It was neat how the spindle started on its own once I hit run. I did not put plywood the entire bed as I thought it will be while before I cut a sign or anything that long. Plus I can remove the mdf for vertical milling with out having to take off the spoil board. Pics in a couple of minutes


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Grid all done and sanded. Marked lines with pencil. Dust boot worked great. Ready for letters or a sign.
Mark


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Looks nice, Mark! Those grid lines will sure help to line up your material straight. Can't wait to try it on a fresh spoilboard for my machine.

Jay


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Sawdust flying tonight. First complete project. Thanks for all the help from everybody especially HJ. I could not have done it with John's help. I can't wait for him to come to Florida so I can take him out to dinner.
Mark


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Great news Mark !


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Wow! A very nice first project. You are on your way, young man!


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Ordered some 4" x 4" aluminum angle, 1/2" thick. I'll be using it to make a bracket to mount my router horizontally off the Meteor's Z backplate. We've got a tiny house project and a tiny shop project coming up this semester, and we want to see if we can cut joints on the end of 2x4s and such. I have faith that all the framing could be put together using CNC cut joinery and some glue. I'll post a few photos once the angle gets here. It has been shipped. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Latest project. It is amazing how quick signs go compared to carving. Did my daughters name. Someday I will create an album like John and everyone else. Right now 2 items don't make an album.
Edison


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Nicely done! 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

edison auto said:


> Latest project. It is amazing how quick signs go compared to carving. Did my daughters name. Someday I will create an album like John and everyone else. Right now 2 items don't make an album.
> Edison


That's why I like v-carving. You see results fast. Create an album. You'll have lots of projects in it before you know it.

Jay


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

edison auto said:


> Latest project. It is amazing how quick signs go compared to carving. Did my daughters name. Someday I will create an album like John and everyone else.* Right now 2 items don't make an album.*
> Edison


Sure they do...
get started now and rest will be cake and pie..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to say the has been one of the better threads regardimg CNC's . I sure learned a lot about what bugs may arise and trouble shooting . Thanks to all who contributed .

I suspect this thread will come in handy for others in the future


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

edison auto said:


> Latest project. It is amazing how quick signs go compared to carving. Did my daughters name. Someday I will create an album like John and everyone else. Right now 2 items don't make an album.
> Edison



Cool Mark,

Guess my work is done, being tossed by the wayside. lol

Start your album now and then you (we) can see your progress. But there isn't much that matches the feeling of seeing the first project come off the bed, no matter how small or simple it is.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

HJ you will never be tossed out. Thanks for the help. I am not done with you yet. I want to do 6 or 7 more before I do my first big project the Edison auto sign. I will call or text you with questions.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Just thought I'd mention that Probotix now has it's own forum for their CNCs. Not too busy yet. May never be as busy as this forum given the narrow subject field, but I've enjoyed spending a little time over there. 

PROBOTIX - Forum Index

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Thanx 4D

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I will check it out
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

We've been having trouble with the stiffness of our Z axis on the Nebula I oversee at work. Thought at first it might be flex of the gantry rail. Then thought the X bearings (4) on the gantry might need tightening (they did). What showed up today was a serious looseness/play of the Z bearings which aren't adjustable. I'm guessing they see the most use (up and down travel) of our busiest CNC, with a heavy router hanging off them. They have finally worn to the point we'll be replacing them once we can find replacements. 

So if you find play in your router mount, check those bearings on the vertical Z rails. In any case keep them lubed well. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D

Let me know how hard it is to get and change those. Len should have them or at least be able to tell you where and what to get. I know they recommend changing the bearings once a year, depending on the amount of use and type, and I'm sure your students put it thru it's paces. How long has it been since you got it?

I've found out that it you dribble a little 3 in 1 oil on the tubes once a week or so it runs a whole lot smoother. You can tell just by listening to the spindle.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The bearings look to be available on Probotix' web site. 

PROBOTIX? :: SBR16 16mm Single Open Linear Bearing

Changing them out looks like it will require disassembling the whole Z mount. Screws to unbolt the bearing are behind the backplate they are mounted on, which will have to come out to access. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d on a different note, do you have tool touch off sensor on your nebula. I have tried mine twice this last weekend and it it will
Not let me run the spindle as it says it is past the z axis travel. I can see where it will be great on carvings. I have a email into probotix. 
Mark


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4D could this bearing issue have been causing the vibration problem that you thought was caused by an inadequate gantry design? 
Just curious


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

4d are you running a spindle or router. I wonder if it is a router if it the excess weight. Just thinking about when a customer comes in with larger than normal tires and wheels and wonders why the wheel bearings are worn out.
Mark


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, I'm about to pull the trigger on an Asteroid. Reading this thread helped me sort out most of the issues but I do have a couple of questions.
- I too was wondering if a larger router like the Bosch 1617 or DW618 would be too much weight? I like more power but not if it causes excessive wear. 
- I'm probably not going to get the "4th axis". Anyone use it? Looks like I can add it later at no additional cost.
- What is the "Dovetail/joinery fixture"? I didn't see anything on it. I'm guessing it's some sort of clamp for vertical boards.

My current thinking is to get the dust collection boot, tool length sensor and the threaded inserts (though it's easy enough to do).


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I have the tool sensor on my nebula and I am trying to figure it out. The dovetail fixture I have on my nebula. They cut the last 12 inches of spoil board so it can be removed to clamp vertically. I removed all of my threaded inserts because they were pressed in from the top side and added screw in type from the underside. The pressed in from topside pulled out on every one I tried. They should have been installed from underneath. I mentioned it to Len and he said he would look into it. I tried a couple srewed in from topside and they will work but the holes were too large already. I ordered the 4th axis just because it did not want to have to order it later. I may never use. I have only had my machine running for 2 months now but love it. I took the advice of most everyone and got the machine 1 size larger than I may ever need but once again did not want to upgrade later.
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I also have the dust boot. The first couple of times i cut without it to watch but now I leave it installed and it works great
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

So far I am glad I went with spindle. I was surprised how quiet it is. I can run it and still carry on a conversation.
Mark


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks, Mark. The Asteriod is as big as I have room for. I wonder if I should skip getting a spoil board and put one in myself. I'd probably start out with putting it lower since you all seem to want to do that.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Phil,

I got the Nebula also with the MDF bed and 4th axis, which I probably will never use. I would go with the spindle - I love it - and I think you're on to something with making your own bed. I put T-track in mine but it sags with no supports (left off because of the 4th axis) so I am going to add 2 cross supports (already got em from Probotix) and make a new bed out of 8020 stock (3075). This way I'll have t-slots for clamping and hopefully a level bed. Now I have to either just cut smaller pieces or shim the heck out of a big cut and then hope it's close. If you built one right from the start you'd be one step ahead of the game.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Right now I added a sheet of plywood to my spoil board so I can just screw my wood down and not worry about clamps. most everything I am doing right now has excess wood around it so screwing it down works great. If I need to cut something thicker I left the last 12 inches at stock height and it can come out since that is where my dovetail clamp is. I cut the grid on the plywood since it was loaded in my computer.
Mark


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Phil my nebula is newer than Johns and it came with the 2 cross supports built in already. I have measured the edges and middle in several spots at random and my bed is out .002 in the middle not enough to worry about in my opinion.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

edison auto said:


> 4d on a different note, do you have tool touch off sensor on your nebula. I have tried mine twice this last weekend and it it will
> Not let me run the spindle as it says it is past the z axis travel. I can see where it will be great on carvings. I have a email into probotix.
> Mark


Sorry Edison, but none of the Probotix CNC I oversee have the tool sensor. All the CNCs are also using dewalt routers not spindles. 

4D


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

edison auto said:


> 4d on a different note, do you have tool touch off sensor on your nebula. I have tried mine twice this last weekend and it it will
> Not let me run the spindle as it says it is past the z axis travel. I can see where it will be great on carvings. I have a email into probotix.
> Mark


Have you checked the setting for Rapid Z Gap Above Material? If it is set too high the z axis can't raise up enough above the material to get the specified gap. I find .2 inches is enough for most projects. Sometimes it is set high to avoid hitting clamps. The setting is located at the top of the Toolpath Operations screen.

If you are using the tool length sensor you need to use the correct post processor when saving a file in VCarvePro or Aspire. It is called Probotix LinuxCNC Atlas G64 Arcs Inch. It's available on the Probotix Wiki page if you don't have it.

I've found that the right sequence when initializing with the tool length sensor is: 1. Home All, 2. Click Load First Tool button, 3. Zero all axis on material. After that it will touch off on the tool length with every toolpath run on a project without having to manually touch off the Z axis.

Using Automatic Tool Length Sensor - PROBOTIX :: wiki

Jay


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

Jay I have tried it that way since I printed out the directions.I can run it manually so I assume my z clearance is OK. I will have to check my saving program I think o may be using a different saving path. Thanks for the input
Mark


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

When you lowered the bed - did you attach it to the frame or is it freestanding?? I figure I can gain maybe 2.5-3 more inches on the Z axis if I do it that way ---- course it's back to the drawing board, but I haven't ordered anything yet -- - all I've gotten so far is the cross supports which are still in the cartons. Still trying to figure what to do.

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

HJ... I made plywood ledge sections that bolt into the bottom slot of the frame members. They are just tall enough so my original MDF sitting on top of them is flush to the top of the rails. My MDF sections are simply laid into the frame on top of the plywood ledge with nothing but gravity holding them down. 

All that gained me 3/4", which I used up again by adding t-track atop it with more MDF between the t-track sections. 

I can't see bolting to the bottom of the frame. There are cables running through some sections of it. Limits stops, limit switches that pass through that space. It would take some major re-thinking of how the whole CNC was cabled/switched to move MDF to the bottom. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

On a related note, if you used some hardwood to make a ledge like mine, and bolt it to so it is flush to the top of the rail, you could then screw MDF to the bottom of the ledges and have it flush to the bottom of the rails. That would give you 60mm - the thickness of your MDF for extra Z travel. Just be careful, because my Meteor can travel south to the point where the bit is above my front frame rail. And I'm not sure how the Auto bit sensor would fit/work in that configuration. 

And if you use any hard wood, seal it well so it doesn't shrink or swell if your shop humidity levels vary. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Looks like they now have their aluminum extrusion table, and the Z-Touch off puck available on their web site. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

4D,

Is that a table for the machine or a bed?

HJ


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

To hold up your CNC up off the floor. Not the bed. 

PROBOTIX? :: Aluminum Machine Stand w/ Shelf

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

John if you add up the table and options you are at $1000 with arm and locking casters.I built mine for 200 with a shelf and a pullout drawer and locking casters from rockler and I built it to my height. Used 4x4 cedar posts and 2x6 frame 20 inch full extension slides.
Mark


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nice looking setup Mark. I would build my own base to if I bought one . Kind of nice to tailor it to your needs


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

TheCableGuy said:


> Nice looking setup Mark. I would build my own base to if I bought one . Kind of nice to tailor it to your needs


Thanks. I am 6' 3" and I like being able to barely have to bend over to zero my tool on my material. Plus the drawer holds the 4 the axis motor,bits,clamps and tools. The shelf is holding wood and practice foam. The computer sits on a desk 5 feet away.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Mark,

I'm a fan of drawers near my CNCs to hold the accessories associated with them. Your setup looks good, but I see there is no enclosure/surround for the drawer when shut. I did the same thing originally with the Meteor we use where I teach, and despite being shut whenever the CNC was running it would always end up with dust in it. I abandoned that drawer and have moved to separate free-standing controller carts that have drawers that seal up when closed for the Meteor and our Nebula. 

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I may have to address the dust issue on the future but right now with dust boot on I don't even have dust on my table. My dust collector is a 2 horse with a 4 inch hose down to 2 at the boot. I make sure the bristles are sweeping the stock. I can always add a sliding top.
Mark


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I've added photos of my angle clamping fixture to Probotix' forum since it was designed and installed on one of their machines. Please have a look and let me know what you think.

Adjustable Angle Clamping Fixture - PROBOTIX

4D


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

I think you should make them and sell them. I would buy one in a heartbeat. Designing fixtures and jigs is my weak point in woodworking. That is why I buy so many jigs and tools even if I only use them once or twice.
Marl


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Thanks, Edison. My standards for anything I mights sell are higher than they are for stuff I make for myself. Although this all-wood version works fine for my needs, a for-sale version should probably be made from aluminum plate, with stainless steel hardware, a configurable clamping plate, some gold trim just for looks.... which makes a fixture like this too expensive for even my own budget. 

A cut list, parts sources, and the Aspire files I used could duplicate it. It would help if you already have a vertical clamping solution on your own CNC though. 

I just assume that with good enough photos the clever CNC users here could duplicate it for their own needs. 

Maybe when I retire. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

*Supporting large projects under the CNC frame.*

I've started to publish (make public) articles on my CNC adventures relating to my Probotix Meteor and the two CNCs from Probotix I have at work. If the site owners here don't mind, the first one is here: 4D Furniture Thoughts: Supporting Assembled Projects Beneath the CNC.

If this violates forum policy please delete it or let me know and I'll delete it. The subject specifically relates to what can be done using Probotix CNC routers.

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I think it should be allowed. Us newbies are always thirsting for knowledge. On one hand these have been around for a while, but on the other - it's still new to the "normal" folk.

HJ


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## edison auto (Nov 13, 2015)

awesome as always. Nice to see pictures
Mark


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## Ronald Reome (Jan 5, 2016)

Hi: 4D thinker very nice.Do you have any picture of how you did your T-track that you can post?Thank Ron


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Ron Reome said:


> Hi: 4D thinker very nice.Do you have any picture of how you did your T-track that you can post?Thank Ron


Happy to, Ron. Original MDF top recut to sit flush to the side rails. Plywood strips bolted into the side of the rails hold it flush. Track (leevalley.com) screwed down, MDF slats rabbeted to slip over the track edges, bolted down with nylon screws into brass inserts in the bottom MDF layer. Screws counter-bored to be below the top MDF surface.

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

If you plan on making regular use of your rotary axis, I'd ask if they can run a long bar front to back to separate a section of the table. Then have then split the spoil board so you can leave the chuck in place but insert/remove the narrow table section over it. It isn't quick or easy to install/remove the chuck. 

My favorite solution is to get a Nebula, then section off the extra width to mount the rotary on the right side, and still have meteor area on the left. A drop in top section can still be used when you have extra wide projects to cut. 

4D


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## Ronald Reome (Jan 5, 2016)

*4 D thinker*

Thank 4D very helpful.Iam going to order a metor this week.Is it possible you can tell me of any special way to have len build the table top? Any extra cross support and how many? Would I need the touch and z-puck?Iam going to order 4th axis also.Is it hard to take it on and off ? If you were going to have one builded can you tell me what you would do?That would be very appreciated. Iam a new bee need help.Thank Ron


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Ron, I have a Meteor with both the ZPuck and the tool length sensor. I like them both but I think I could get by with just the puck. I had Len put a cross support in the middle of my table and a two piece spoilboard so I could remove one side to allow bringing the workpiece from underneath. You'll love your new CNC.

Jay


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Ron Reome said:


> Is it possible you can tell me of any special way to have len build the table top? Any extra cross support and how many? Thanks Ron


 The single advantage of the CNCs Probotix sells is that you don't have to settle with how they come when new. They are made with standard aluminum extrusions you can buy from Amazon or other sources. Mine originally came with nothing more than an MDF top. I bought and added a cross bar, eventually added a rotary axis, am on my third version of a base design and bed configuration. etc.. The best way to configure one highly depends on the kind of stuff you are going to cut with one. I'm trying to convince my boss to order a comet with NO MDF top which I'll add a custom advanced angle/compound angle clamping fixture to. The fixture will adjust from vertical to horizontal,, and fill the whole cutting area inside the frame. My students are doing more vertical and and angled joinery cuts now that they know the potential, and we can use a machine dedicated to just that. 

But if I was making signs, with 2 or more bits used on each one, I'd jump on the touch plate and tool height sensor, put a cross brace or two inside the frame, limit my top MDF surface to the cutting limits so I can have the CNC mill it flat, and might invent a new strategy for holding down work that doesn't use t-track at all. 

The key is to get one. Use it for while. That experience will inform far better than I can about what could be changed to make it better/more efficient for the kind of work you are doing. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

+1 what 4D said!!!!

Get one and adapt it to what you end up doing the most of. Chances are you'll end up doing other things than what your first intentions were.

HJ


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## Ronald Reome (Jan 5, 2016)

4D Thanks for all the help.I order my meteor today.Now I need to build a stand for it.Not sure what that will be.Thank Ron


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

There is no reason not to keep it simple. All you need is a few 4x4 cedar posts and some decent plywood. There are two holes on the bottom of each end cap of the rails. A 1/2" x /1/2" notch at the top of the post to set the end caps in, and a couple of screws each.

Feel free to steal this table design if you want. Dimensioned drawings of the Meteor are available on their web site. 

4D


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> There is no reason not to keep it simple. All you need is a few 4x4 cedar posts and some decent plywood. There are two holes on the bottom of each end cap of the rails. A 1/2" x /1/2" notch at the top of the post to set the end caps in, and a couple of screws each.
> 
> Feel free to steal this table design if you want. Dimensioned drawings of the Meteor are available on their web site.
> 
> 4D


Great looking setup 4D . Liking the bits stored on the end to


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## cadviewdesigns (Apr 22, 2016)

We just uncrated our V-90 desktop two days ago. completely assembled and fired up in 20 min. My only issue so far is that I have 15 years programming experience with EnRoute 3 and 4 and cannot yet find a driver or post processor that can export the .ngc file that the machine uses. We did just install Vectric 2D 8.0 and it works just fine. I must say, with all my years working with larger more durable production machines like the Multicam systems, this Probotix machine is very well built. It is obvious that their production department takes a lot of pride in this product down to every last detail, surface finish of the aluminum machined parts, the wiring and its protection and routing, simplicity of access to limits and mechanics and so on. This is light years from the cheap Chinese crap on eBay. This is a very well designed platform and I will probably purchase another one soon.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

G code is just text, and the only thing special about the various post processors is setup, header, and footer codes for the particular machine being used. If you are still interested in using Enroute then look for a generic g-code post processor, then change the extension after saving it (which may be .nc or .txt) to .ngc to see if it runs well on the V90 through LinuxCNC. I've got a tinyG CNC controller, and it works fine running cut files I've saved for LinuxCNC, my CNC Shark, and even the Multicam I have at work if I haven't used more than one tool in the file. It ignores machines codes it has no need for and simply follows the x/y/z jog and cut commands. 

Hope that helps.

4D


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## steckmeyer (Feb 23, 2016)

Probotix Meteor Assessment

We have had our Meteor for six weeks. We bought the basic machine with the puck, Atlas, air cooled spindle and a set of collets. The incentive to buy a CNC router came from my son. He is a good mechanic / woodworker and has computer expertise including the Linux operating system. He did all of the research and recommended the Probotix machine. I became interested when I realized that this machine can be used to produce parts for heirloom quality furniture. I would classify us as discriminating hobbyists. 

Once we had the machine uncrated we started to poke around. Initially we set it up on our assembly table to check basic functions. It became clear that we would have to have a permanent location for the system. We ended up building a steel table with a cabinet to hold the computers and VFD. We added a Ridged vacuum, Rockler Vortex separator and a Rockler antistatic hose. 
It works. We have machined some simple items but have had a chance to test the capabilities. First let me say the Len and Melissa are very reasonable to deal with and patiently worked with us through some shipping hiccups and initial start up confusion. We did have some loose spade connectors on the Z axis and have had some problems with the Atlas. That seems to be caused by our lack of understanding of some G code functions and is probably resolved. We think that the Atlas is a worthwhile extra. 

Once we had the machine set up in its permanent location we did some basic tests. Using a V carving bit with the DRO we spot marked four corners near the maximum X. Y range. We taped the diagonals. Even young eyes could not find any dimensional difference. Using a dial indicator we measured the actual movement in the X, Y, Z axis. In manual mode with the resolution set at 0.001" we observed 0.001, 0.001, 0.0005, 0.0015 sequences repeated in all three directions. When the resolution was changed to 0.005" all three direction moved 0.005" without deviation. We set up two dial indicators, one on each end of the gantry to see if there was any racking. Our instruments indicate that both ends move identically. We trammed the spindle and found it to be slightly more than 1/10 of a degree out of plumb. We did not try to correct this misalignment because we doubt that this will cause any problem.

We believe that this machine is a very good value. It is accurate and precise enough to more than hold woodworking tolerances. The design is sufficiently robust and ridged to handle a 2.2KW spindle. Time will tell how well it holds up.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nice looking setup N/A . Liking your table with the vacuum underneith and the drawers up front . Thanks for the review and welcome to the forum


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Welcome to the forum! You will find lots of knowledge just waiting to be tapped. Nice looking setup. I have dealt with Len and Probotix for several years, and I believe that they make a quality product.

Dave


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Simple desk design. Tenon array joinery to connect the legs to the top. 
Cedar 4x4s (3.5" x 3.5") used for the legs. Ready made 25" x 49" x 1.5" 
thick butcher block top straight from my local Menards store. 
Used my Meteor and my angle clamping rig to cut the tenons on the 
compound angled ends of the legs, as well as to chamfer the bottom of the legs. 
Also cut the mortise arrays on the bottom of the butcher block. 
Centered the arrays 1/5th of the way in from all sides. 4 degree tilt in the long 
direction, and 2 degree tilt in the short direction. 

























More photos and a longer writeup on my blog.

Apologies for the large photos. Didn't realize they would be so big 
as links from my blog where they show up smaller. Just thought I'd 
share one of the main things I do using my Meteor.... 
Joinery for furniture projects

4D.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

4DThinker said:


> Simple desk design. Tenon array joinery to connect the legs to the top.
> Cedar 4x4s (3.5" x 3.5") used for the legs. Ready made 25" x 49" x 1.5"
> thick butcher block top straight from my local Menards store.
> Used my Meteor and my angle clamping rig to cut the tenons on the
> ...


Wow is that ever cool


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

One advantage of using an array of small tenons rather than a single or maybe two tenons is that there is considerably more side grain contact area in the joint. The mortise side remains strong given the web of remaining wood between mortises. If your legs have a decent cross section, and fairly straight grain along their length, then this is a great way to attach them even if angled up to 10 degrees or so. 

One of the many things a CNC can do easily, and is worth doing. It would be impossible or very difficult to cut both halves of this joint by hand or with any other jig/rig/template. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

This is a work bench version using the same tenon array to connect the legs to the top. This is just a 1/4 scale model, done to verify that all my dimensions and angles were correct. It took a good photo though. Used a 2 x 2 tenon array on the angled ends of the stretchers to connect them to the legs. Foreshortening diminishes the splaying out of the legs in the second photo. Again they angle 4 degrees out in the long dimension and 2 degrees out in the short. Stretchers are vertical off the floor. I used a 1/16" end mill for the model where I would have used a 1/4" end mill on full sized parts. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I took my 1/4 scale model up to the college shop, and have already gotten 5 requests to make full sized versions. 3 from other professors and 2 from students. Now that I have all the toolpaths done the only challenge is sourcing good looking 4x4s and 2x6s to make all the legs and stretchers. Not as easy as it seems. 

I might make an all-hardwood full sized one for myself. 

4D


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## CalebBronner (May 17, 2016)

I think what he meant to say was there are many packages for investment casting. Investment casting process you choose.


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## copythat (Oct 16, 2016)

Steckmeyer,
It has been a few months since your posting and I was wondering what you thought of your Probotix set up. Would you please share your thoughts?
Thanks,
Rob


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

steckmeyer said:


> It is accurate and precise enough to more than hold woodworking tolerances. The design is sufficiently robust and ridged to handle a 2.2KW spindle.


I had to grin. There are all kind of posts around the internet about ultimate accuracy and precision on small wood shop or hobbyist CNC. Accuracy at 0.01" to a measurement isn't as important to a customer as precise visually symmetrical elements. Machining dies for production tooling or critical mechanical moving parts is different.

Steve.


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## arthurszelag (Feb 1, 2017)

I purchased Nebula CNC Router from Probotix last year. Overall I can say that it is a very well made machine and user friendly. I bought with Atlas Tool Measuring option and aluminum stand, pretty much all options available. Works great. Most importantly service is great. I had Lance from Probotix come to my shop to troubleshoot and help with initial set-up. Good people to work with.


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## steckmeyer (Feb 23, 2016)

*Meteor Up Date*

copythat,

Thanks for the interest in our progress. We have been working steadily learning how to run a CNC router. It has been interesting and humbling. We are now at the point where we can produce usable components for furniture. I have attached a photo of kitchen stools we finished. All of the parts were made on our modified Meteor. 

As designed the machine works well. Because of the size parts we make and the tolerances we work to we did have to make some changes. The gantry was raised two inches. Three inches would have been better. I asked Len about this modification. He advised against it and was not interested in fabricating modified side plates for us. We had to have the clearance so we made the side plates on our mill. They turned out fine and the machine function is vastly improved. I was a little worried about additional spindle deflection but if there is any it is not noticeable.

We use dedicated spoil-boards for our individual projects. Spoil-board location and flatness are important to us. We added a hard wood sleeper near the back end of the machine so we can use location dowels and we added ribs to reduce the spoil-board sag. 

These changes have made our machine much better suited to our particular applications. We are now putting the finishing touches on a rocking chair. My son is in a tough semester right now so it maybe a while before it is done.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Those stools are very impressive


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Ever think of just taking the bed off and using the top of your stand. Buys a lot more clearance room that way. 4D knows exactly how to do it and how much more Z height you'll have.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Would be very interested in hearing more about your joints on the stools and how you set your machine up to run them. Great work!!

Dave


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

steckmeyer said:


> The gantry was raised two inches. Three inches would have been better. I asked Len about this modification. He advised against it and was not interested in fabricating modified side plates for us. We had to have the clearance so we made the side plates on our mill. They turned out fine and the machine function is vastly improved. I was a little worried about additional spindle deflection but if there is any it is not noticeable.


On Probotix' Facebook page they recently showed a rending of extended gantry sides. Said they were waiting on the local electric company to bring more power to their new Florida shop but when they had their machine shop running they would test them out before making them available. 

Where I teach we also use a Meteor and Nebula for making furniture parts and cutting joinery details. One of the best and most used features is this angle clamping jig: 4D Furniture Thoughts: Advanced Compound Angle CNC Clamping Fixture.

I've also had to take advantage of the versatility of the frame design. One of my not-so-uncommon challenges: 4D Furniture Thoughts: Supporting Assembled Projects Beneath the CNC.

Beautiful job on those stools.

4D


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## steckmeyer (Feb 23, 2016)

Dave,

The stool design is a Dr. Russell Crawford original. Dr. Crawford is a very impressive furniture maker and designer. He posts on the Vectric and CaMaster forums. The stools are the precursor to his rocking chair design. I am prohibited from posting these URLs. If you can't make the stools you probably can't make the rocking chair.


4D,

Thanks for the input. Your forum posts were very helpful during my initial review of CNC equipment and methods. I always read your posts. You are a wealth of knowledge and a very creative designer. Your students are lucky to have access to you.

It is interesting that Probotix is considering offering a higher gantry. I don't use face book so I can't comment on the design but there can't be much to it.

Thanks for you encouragement.

Bob


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Not sure if you can see this link without logging in, but all they posted on facebook was a side elevation and a challenge to figure out what was different in it. The answer was taller side brackets leading to more Z clearance. 

https://www.facebook.com/probotix/photos/rpp.132971063415323/1277454092300342/?type=3&theater


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## steckmeyer (Feb 23, 2016)

Interesting. I have attached a photo of what ours looks like.


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## cadviewdesigns (Apr 22, 2016)

4D,

Just now saw that your reply is in here. Thanks for the tip and I will try it tonight. Looks like my extension options for the probiotic router are .ngc, .tap, .png and .ngc2.

I have tried all the enroute 4 posts that output to .tap and each give me g-code error message when opening the file. I have not attempted to change any extension yet. I do see many posts that will create a .nc file so I will start with those.

Hope your still on here. Any additional ideas are greatly appreciated.

Dave.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm still here Dave, although this is a busy time for CNC use and furniture design projects in general at the University where I teach. 

When I mentioned I had a controller that could deal with any G-code file it wasn't LinuxCNC but rather my little TinyG controller I bought for a home-built project. 
If you are still using Enroute I can't help you. I do have a copy (of Enroute 5.0) from when the only CNC we had was a Large Multicam. My personal CNC Shark came with VCarve pro by Vectric which does have a few post processors for LinuxCNC (formally EMC2). It also has post processors for the Multicam so I've standardized on using Vectric products now up to Aspire 8.5. 

4D


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## arthurszelag (Feb 1, 2017)

I have Probotix Nebula (37"x50" work envelope). Bought it last year in July. I live in Chicago so I picked up the machine from their facility in Peoria, IL. I bought complete package with pretty much all accessories/add-ons available (aluminum stand, monitor arm, Atlas tool measuring device, etc.) I decided to go with 80mm water cooled spindle on this one (quiet operation, spindle makes little noise, actually my cordless drill make more noise than the spindle). Machine works and performs great thus far. If you want my opinion about Probotix then in short: I would highly recommend this company, product is great and so is service. Lenny (Technician at Probotix) is a very knowledgeable man and willing to troubleshot and help with anything (if you will ever have any problems). One very important thing to keep in mind: their machines are made in U.S. That means that all the replacement parts are pretty much available here without looking for them overseas. The other I think most important thing is the quality. Before I bought my Nebula I tried Chinese made CNC Router, and it was a mistake. Difference between US made Nebula and Chinese is like nigh and day. 

Hope that answers your questions and concerns.

Arthur
SA Industries, Inc.


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## steckmeyer (Feb 23, 2016)

After 13 months we finally were able to complete a rocking chair. The design is from Dr. Russell Crawford and all the parts were made on a modified Probotix Meteor. The chair is made from 8/4 figured cherry. Most parts require two sided machining while the head rest requires 3 sided machining. The only parts not actually cut on the machine are the laminated rockers and they are pressed in culls cut on the router. We have to run the machine hard using mostly 1/2" bits and aggressive feed rates. The only problems we had were the spade connectors on the X axis limit switch vibrating loose many times (we finally soldered them) and failure of the computer power switch. It's been fun, entertaining and educational. 4DThinker, Thanks for all of your contributions to these forums. Many of them were very helpful to us.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Looks beautiful! Clearly you are now a master of that Meteor for having completed the parts for such a nice project using it. 

We haven't had any switch problems on the 2 meteors I oversee, but our Nebula is currently down with a failed Z-axis switch. I'll replace it before classes start up again this fall but also add bypass switches for all three axes to keep their circuits closed when the machine is being challenged again. My students have a bad habit of jogging the router all the way up before homing the machine. This puts stress on the Z axis switch and causes early failure. 

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Thought I'd share that my personal Meteor is now not working. Used it as usual yesterday (Saturday) morning to cut details on a small part. I left it on for 1/2 hour to go draw up the next part I needed to cut. Something unknown happened. I came down to find I no longer had control of the CNC. Fan on the control box runs, but linuxCNC does NOT have any control over the actual CNC. X/Y/Z on-screen coordinates update dynamically, but the CNC itself doesn't budge. 

Sent off a quick email to support(at)probotix.com and have already gotten one reply from Len. This was on a Sunday morning. 

Yes, I'm a little sad.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Sounds like a great time to upgrade the control system. Then should be like a new machine.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Sounds like a great time to upgrade the control system. Then should be like a new machine.


I had the same thought. It just seems a shame to abandon what has been a reliable controller for the last few years. There is a small possibility that the parallel port in the PC has failed rather than anything in the controller box. I did open up the controller to see if any of the many fuses had popped, but no luck there. No other obvious damage either. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Let us know what you find and how you remedied it.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Let us know what you find and how you remedied it.


Len has been going back and forth with me over email to try and deduce what the problem is. I have a multimeter he has had me check all the internal fuses (none bad), check for 5v where the main board connects to the driver boards (non existent), and verify that the 5v AC adapter is actually putting out 5v (5.5v when checked). This was all over the weekend. Still no conclusion what happened, but somewhere in the circuit the supply voltage needed to power the stepper motors gets stopped. A new Unity controller is $600 or I'm guessing I can ship my controller back to Probotix where they can fix it for something less than that. If I could spot the specific part that failed (I can't) then they could ship me a replacement to swap out. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Betcha it turns out to be something simple like a broken wire, capacitor, or resistor .. or something like that............ or a broken or poor connection.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm suspecting a bad capacitor at this point. On the main controller board where there should be 5v available at several points there is 0.0v instead. There are two identically spec'd capacitors and one looks like it's cap is slightly bowed out. There apparently have been a rash of badly made capacitors floating around the parts sources for the last several years. I had a TV and AV receiver both go bad for a single bad capacitor each. 

Haven't heard back from Len today, but of course this is a busy work day. My Meteor can't be under any kind of warranty now so his help so far has been beyond what I would expect. I'm a little beyond my braver younger years where I'd happily assume I could de-solder a cap and replace it with a new one. Eyes and fingers not as good as they used to be. Warming up to the idea of a whole new controller box. 

4D


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

If you could swing it - - now's the time to bite the bullet and upgrade. Got every reason in the world to justify it. Or....... get the new controller and fix the old one .......and start making another machine.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Looks like I can swing it. Len sent me a quick email letting me know they were shipping me a new Unity controller as well as the new bracket adapter for the new tailstock design using Sherline's ready made dead center. Corey from Probotix then confirmed it with a UPS tracking code. 

As I already have 4 CNCs (an original CNC Shark Pro rarely used any more, a home made 1/4 scale CNC made from old printer parts and a TinyG controller, The Meteor, and an X-Carve kit all assembled but not yet used for anything) I don't really need a 5th. I do have an itch to buy/build something just like Probotix' MK2 V90 model with a bed made solely from my adjustable angle jig and a taller gantry. We have a growing demand for a small CNC dedicated to cut joinery details on our student furniture designs. My dept administration has changed again (3rd time in 3 years) and it may take some time to convince the new head that the new shop space needs another CNC.

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I've been looking at the table frame that Probotix sells for their CNCs, and it occurs to me that the top ring of stretchers is redundant once the CNC is bolted to the legs. 

http://www.probotix.com/image/cache/catalog/stand1-1000x1000.jpg

If the brackets they use to attach the stretchers to the legs are strong enough then leaving out the top frame would cut the materials used down by 1/3. Seems like that could lower the price by 1/3 as well. All the parts used could be bought separately from 8020dotNet They also have the extrusions in a black finish. Just thought I'd mention it for anyone thinking about a table frame for one of the Probotix CNCs.

4D


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I finally got my Meteor rewired and the new controller hooked up. Running their new configuration app I realized I'd forgotten the system password and couldn't get past that step. After some internet research I found a way to reset the password and finally got to the prompts where I could tell it about my machine configuration. I noticed an option for soft limits which might help us avoid the limit switch errors we often get when running our Nebula at the college shop. Not sure exactly how it works, but hopefully once homed it simply ignores limits errors caused by machine vibration when doing heavy cuts. 

- The steppers now run much quieter than they did before.
- The router used to return to the center of the table when homed, but now it just stays at the front left corner. I'd like to change that back but there was no option to set that in the configurator. I remember seeing a command/setting for that in my meteor.ini file, but the configurator deleted all my previous configurations to check. 
- My rotary axis now jogs (very) much faster. Curious to find out if it cuts previous files the same or if they have changed its feed speed input ratio at all. 
- I was delighted to see I could delete using a game pad from the configuration. 
- I was delighted to see I could set it up for a touch pad. I already have the cable run. Still need to get a parallel cable plug end and wire it up though. 

As for rewiring all the steppers it was far from easy. Getting the old shrink tube off was the biggest challenge. I have a cable stripper, soldering iron, heat gun, and soldering experience but could have used a 3rd hand holding the cable ends together for soldering. Feel very lucky that all the steppers seem to work now that the machine is back together. Probotix did a good job providing all the info I needed on their wiki. 

Now to cut some wood.
4D


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> ...
> Now to cut some wood.
> 4D


OK... where is it? I have no patience today we have a heatwave finally.
So not use to it. I'll be back after. :grin:


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I figured out how to change where the router goes to after homing. There is a Home: line under each axis specifications list that was set at 0 by the configurator. I changed those values to 1/2 the width/depth of the cutting range, saved the file and reran linuxCNC. Now the machine moves back to the center of the table after touching off the X/Y/Z limit switches. I'm guessing this 0,0 home position was set by default as a preferred position for those who may have clamps and such set up before they realize they need to HOME the machine. If anyone has a different position they prefer the router to move to then it can be set using that same Home value in the Probotix.ini file. 

For anyone with a Meteor I've discovered there is more cutting range possible than advertised (25 x 50). I've got 52.9" length and 26.44" width. I did move the triangular brackets that the limit switches hit over to make this extra cutting range. I suspect those with a Comet, Asteroid, or Nebula can get the same extended range by doing the same. 

4D


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

4D,

The soft limits are used in conjunction with the hard wired limits. They should be set up so that they "trip" before you hit a hard wired limit. They are also designed as an option for people who don't have hard wired limits.

Dave


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> 4D, The soft limits are used in conjunction with the hard wired limits. They should be set up so that they "trip" before you hit a hard wired limit. They are also designed as an option for people who don't have hard wired limits. Dave


Thanks Dave. When I used the configurator provided by Probitix the first time I chose soft limits mainly to see what happened. My Meteor does have working limit switches, but we have a Nebula that frequently throws a limit error during hardwood cuts despite not actually bumping into a hardware limit. My hope is to figure out if choosing soft limits will ignore open limit switches if the machine coordinates are otherwise inside the cutting limits. The Home function still appears to seek out X/Y/Z limits though, which implies to me that real working limit switches have to be in place to complete homing. 

Our Nebula is problematic to the point where I'm considering installing bypass switches to "disable" the installed limit switches so we can more reliably complete a challenging cut. They would keep the circuit closed even if the limit switches vibrate/bounce open. 

4D


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

4DThinker said:


> Thanks Dave. When I used the configurator provided by Probitix the first time I chose soft limits mainly to see what happened. My Meteor does have working limit switches, but we have a Nebula that frequently throws a limit error during hardwood cuts despite not actually bumping into a hardware limit. My hope is to figure out if choosing soft limits will ignore open limit switches if the machine coordinates are otherwise inside the cutting limits. The Home function still appears to seek out X/Y/Z limits though, which implies to me that real working limit switches have to be in place to complete homing.
> 
> Our Nebula is problematic to the point where I'm considering installing bypass switches to "disable" the installed limit switches so we can more reliably complete a challenging cut. They would keep the circuit closed even if the limit switches vibrate/bounce open.
> 
> 4D


4D,

A couple of things to check. Are your limits switches green or black? Probotix used black limits switches for awhile and they had weaker springs in them. If they are black, I would check with Len and I would bet that he would replace them for you.

Another cause for this is using the incorrect wire to the limits. If using a spindle and vfd, it is important to use shielded wire with the shield connected only at one end (controller) to ground.

There is also a debounce parameter that can be applied. Look into your .hal file and see if you find something similar to what I have below. It is designed to ignore nuisance trips. DO not copy this into your .hal file as there is a little more code than what I have here to make it work.

net min-home-x-raw <= parport.0.pin-10-in
net min-home-x-raw => debounce.0.0.in
net min-home-x <= debounce.0.0.out

net min-home-y-raw <= parport.0.pin-11-in
net min-home-y-raw => debounce.0.1.in
net min-home-y <= debounce.0.1.out

net min-home-z-raw <= parport.0.pin-12-in
net min-home-z-raw => debounce.0.2.in
net min-home-z <= debounce.0.2.out

setp debounce.0.delay 10


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

The 3 CNCs I oversee (a CNC Shark, Probotix Nebula, and a Probotix Meteor) we have for our college shop are currently in storage awaiting our new shop space to be finished and inspected. From memory though I believe the Nebula has green limit switches. I've had to replace the Z limit switch on the Nebula twice since we got it. When the semester ended it also had to be locked off for a failed Z axis limit switch. Len has already sent us enough switches to replace all of those on a CNC 3 times. 

I will inspect the .HAL file for my personal Meteor to try and improve my understanding of the options in there. Debounce sounds like the best candidate for a solution though. 

4D


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

4D

I just looked at a couple of the config files from several of the Probotix machines that I oversee as well and you should find a debounce setting for each axis. If you are only having issues with one axis, just try adjusting that debounce time value (setp debounce.0.delay 10).

The above hal file snippet was from my DIY machine based on Probotix configs, so yours will look a little different, but should be obvious. Just increase the value after "delay". From what I understand from the Linuxcnc site, the value is based on "base thread cycles".

Hope this helps.

Dave


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

It does help, Dave. Now I'll have to look up what "base thread cycles" is/are. Seems much like I remember my Mom talking about when she got a new fancy sewing machine back in the 70's.


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