# So you want to buy a router table...



## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

I was told by my son Mark that many members were interested in comparing the router tables out in the market. He wants to know, what is needed to compare commercially built router tables? The first thing that come to my mind was, what do you need a router table for? You are a beginner and you received your grandfather's Sears router complete with the packaging. This router has rounded over three boards and then was quickly put back in the box and left there for the next 30 years.

You found this tool and have heard that it is the most versatile tool in the workshop. Now you own one of these tools and you want to know more...so why the router table? Most of them out there can round over a board and cut a rabbet joint, that's it. Each of the manufactures create the same style with subtle differences but for the most part they are all the same and of course they can round over the board and make a rabbet joint.

So again why do you need to spend hundreds of dollars for something as useless as that? You can have the same thing by just taking the sub-plate off your router then using this sub-plate to match and drill the holes on a piece of 1/2 Good One Side plywood approx. 24" X 48". I would put the router at one end of the plywood leaving it equally from the two sides and the end. The commercially built ones would have you put the router in the center of the plywood. Mount the router and screw the 1/2" plywood on the end of your workbench and you are set...you now can round over a board and create the rabbet joint. Cost about 10 bucks...

So again you ask what router table to buy? There must be more to the router tables out there right? No there really is not much more out there, they have no idea how to make the rabbet/dado joint or the box joint to say the least. They make it virtually impossible to change router bits, remember the hole for the router is the middle of the table leaving no place to put the router while changing the router bits. They all do it this way so is that really what you want to do?

Let's talk about changing router bits, probably the most used operation on the router table. 

So first thing to look for is 1) where do I put my router to change the router bits? With the router mounted in the center there really is no place to put the router and change the router bit. Oh yes I know over on the workbench across the shop, that is real handy... 

Next two questions are related to router bit storage. So question 2, where do you put the router bit after you have taken it out? and 3, where do you get the next router bit from? Is there a system used to hold your router bits built into the table? Again the answer is over at the workbench in a box full of plastic cases...

Next, let's talk about the fence. Did you ever look closely at the router bit and really decide for your self how much fence you really need to mold the edge of a board. Using just the bearing it is about 1/4" so why a 30 inch fence. We agree that router bit does the cutting, right? And you agree with me that you need a small amount of fence to get the board on the router bit and off the router bit, right? 

Being cautious let's say 6" on the in-feed and 6" on the out-feed. So then 4) why do all these router tables make the same sized fence leaving it to be 24 to 30" is length...To be honest with more fence you have the chances of not getting your board to touch the router bit at all, it becomes a real problem. A bit of a warp in the project piece makes it difficult to mold the edge. So why such a long fence?

Now let's look at a real gem, how they mount the fence to the table? This is suppose to be a feature...each have a T slot, a T-nut with a bolt and I think they want you to make the fence parallel with the side of the table. That is so you can use your table-saw miter gauge to do cross cuts. That's right they want you to use a tool designed to be used with the table-saw to be used with the router. 

Why is this not a good idea? 

The table-saw cuts in the vertical plane and the router cuts in the horizontal plane. This is two different ways to cut, and in the horizontal plane you need the support right over the router bit. But with the miter gauge the support is at least 6" to the right. This works fine with the cutting tool in the vertical plane and where the saw blade is cutting into the miter fence. This tool is not for the router bit cutting in the horizontal plane.

Next, let's think about the clamping process, because the router bit cut in circular motion in the horizontal plane makes the fence always parallel to the router bit. The best process to mount a fence is to use a C-Clamp on the out-feed to first position the fence then moving the fence into position and clamping the second C-Clamp on the in-feed side. Nothing needs to be parallel. All you need is the fence to be the desired distance away from the router bit. 5) You need each of these router tables to be demonstrated. You want the salesman to show you how to set up the fence 2" away from the router bit. Just watch how quick this can be done? Trust me this is not an easy task even with practice...Do you want to be doing this every time you need to make a set up? Not likely...

So that is just a few things to ask when looking for a router table...I think you will find that most of these commercially purchased router tables are basically the same and work as described above...So to start you should use my plywood table with a 2 X 2 fence with two C-Clamps to start...round over your boards until you get the feel of what the direction of feed is all about. Use the round over, cove, and the roman ogee bit to mold the edges of all the boards in the shop. Remember across the grain first, with the grain second then across the grain and follow up with the grain one final time. 

Next, let's talk about making some simple wood joints with your plywood table. Joints like the dado, groove, rabbet and linear dovetail. And again don't buy a router table just yet...You need to get a few wood joints under your belt before purchasing that useless router table.


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## Paul Melanson (May 2, 2010)

I'm new to using a Router, Do you have picture of this table top so I can try to make it


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'm new to using a Router, Do you have picture of this table top so I can try to make it


Hi - Welcome to the forum
Here's the picture from the Oak Park website. Not much to make, It's some phenolic impregnated plywood with a hole for the plate and some other holes for Oak Park jigs. The fence just clamps to the table, or maybe one end pivots and the other clamps. Not real sure. I haven't got one of these but noticed no one had answered your post yet. 
There is a link to the Oak Park website down the left side of the page when you first enter the forum. Didn't think to copy the URL. Will come back later and post it as an edit.

*Here's the link*
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html
That link is to their US catalog. The Canadian catalog may be different, haven't looked.


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

A lot of assumptions and misinformation here IMHO. I'll address some of the inaccuracies..



BobandRick said:


> I was told by my son Mark that many members were interested in comparing the router tables out in the market. He wants to know, what is needed to compare commercially built router tables? The first thing that come to my mind was, what do you need a router table for? You are a beginner and you received your grandfather's Sears router complete with the packaging. This router has rounded over three boards and then was quickly put back in the box and left there for the next 30 years.


Ummm.. not the case for most here. Some of us have been using routers for quite a while and have never invested in a commercial router table.



BobandRick said:


> You found this tool and have heard that it is the most versatile tool in the workshop. Now you own one of these tools and you want to know more...so why the router table? Most of them out there can round over a board and cut a rabbet joint, that's it. Each of the manufactures create the same style with subtle differences but for the most part they are all the same and of course they can round over the board and make a rabbet joint.
> So again why do you need to spend hundreds of dollars for something as useless as that? You can have the same thing by just taking the sub-plate off your router then using this sub-plate to match and drill the holes on a piece of 1/2 Good One Side plywood approx. 24" X 48". I would put the router at one end of the plywood leaving it equally from the two sides and the end. The commercially built ones would have you put the router in the center of the plywood. Mount the router and screw the 1/2" plywood on the end of your workbench and you are set...you now can round over a board and create the rabbet joint. Cost about 10 bucks...


Not so. There are large and significant differences between manufacturers of router tables. And none that I know of uses plywood. Thankfully. Also not every table has the router mounted in the center. Many are offset. The better manufacturers offer options. Also, for that $10 cost you'll get about $10 worth of accuracy. Stay away from plywood and go with an MDF core surface, it's rigid and flat.




BobandRick said:


> So again you ask what router table to buy? There must be more to the router tables out there right? No there really is not much more out there, they have no idea how to make the rabbet/dado joint or the box joint to say the least. They make it virtually impossible to change router bits, remember the hole for the router is the middle of the table leaving no place to put the router while changing the router bits. They all do it this way so is that really what you want to do?


Actually there is plenty out there. A diverse group of products. They do not make it virtually impossible to change the router bits. Those are changed the same way on any table, lift out the plate. Simple. 




BobandRick said:


> Next two questions are related to router bit storage. So question 2, where do you put the router bit after you have taken it out? and 3, where do you get the next router bit from? Is there a system used to hold your router bits built into the table? Again the answer is over at the workbench in a box full of plastic cases...


Ummm no. Why are there a box full of plastic cases? Why not one large case where all your bits can fit? or a drawer in your workbench to store them? I'm not sure what the point is here. Is there some magic bullet? The bits have to go somewhere no matter what router or table you use, right?



BobandRick said:


> Next, let's talk about the fence. Did you ever look closely at the router bit and really decide for your self how much fence you really need to mold the edge of a board. Using just the bearing it is about 1/4" so why a 30 inch fence. We agree that router bit does the cutting, right? And you agree with me that you need a small amount of fence to get the board on the router bit and off the router bit, right?


Simple, the longer and straighter the fence the more support, safety and accuracy in the cut. Not every piece cut is 10" long.




BobandRick said:


> Being cautious let's say 6" on the in-feed and 6" on the out-feed. So then 4) why do all these router tables make the same sized fence leaving it to be 24 to 30" is length...To be honest with more fence you have the chances of not getting your board to touch the router bit at all, it becomes a real problem. A bit of a warp in the project piece makes it difficult to mold the edge. So why such a long fence?


Again, what about long workpieces? Board not touching the router bit at all??
You guys work with boards with warped edges? That's not safe or smart. Square straight stock is pretty basic to all woodworking. Unless you're working with curved pieces in which case you wouldn't be using a fence anyway.




BobandRick said:


> Now let's look at a real gem, how they mount the fence to the table? This is suppose to be a feature...each have a T slot, a T-nut with a bolt and I think they want you to make the fence parallel with the side of the table. That is so you can use your table-saw miter gauge to do cross cuts. That's right they want you to use a tool designed to be used with the table-saw to be used with the router.


Sometimes it's desirable to have the fence parallel with the edge of the table. A miter gauge is useful in keeping the work piece square to the fence. And the miter gauge is not used exclusively on the table saw. It can be used for a variety of tool applications.




BobandRick said:


> So that is just a few things to ask when looking for a router table...I think you will find that most of these commercially purchased router tables are basically the same and work as described above...So to start you should use my plywood table with a 2 X 2 fence with two C-Clamps to start...


Again, some c-clamps and a short fence are fine for small pieces, but what about larger ones? How does a 2 x 2 fence give you support for vertical work?
What material are you using for the fence? will it remain straight? High quality commercial fences will. What about safety? where is the bit guard mounted on your homemade fence? How about dust collection? Your fence account for that? Mine does. As do most well made commercial fences. As well as safety, something you failed to mention. What type of surface does your "plywood" table have? Is it rough? Won't that require more effort to feed the stock through? Sounds like that might be unsafe. 

It seems to me that it it is more important for someone just starting out using a router to make the learning process as easy and as safe as possible and NOT to focus solely on the cost. High quality well made tables provide large flat work surfaces. High quality well made fences provide straight true rigid, accurate and safe work surfaces and include protection from sharp bits and include dust collection. 
My advice for someone purchasing a router or router table, as with all tools, get the best quality tool you can afford. There are a myriad of manufacturers out there and a wealth of information about them on the internet. Educate yourself.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

Just got back to this thread...and see that I have stirred up some fur from at least one of the members. Sorry I just realized this joker has been banned for some reason. Anyways I will take some time to answer each of the so called concerns in my next post.


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

I'll be honest with you, only answer his concerns if you have the free time. His presence on the forum is no more and his disregard for the rules and respect for other members has earned him his fancy "Banned" title. Suppose this is a good time as any to address how seriously we take member disrespect on Router Forums, let Joe be an example.

I'd only encourage you to reply to his comments if other members are curious and if you have the free time to do so.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

jschaben said:


> Hi - Welcome to the forum
> Here's the picture from the Oak Park website. Not much to make, It's some phenolic impregnated plywood with a hole for the plate and some other holes for Oak Park jigs. The fence just clamps to the table, or maybe one end pivots and the other clamps. Not real sure. I haven't got one of these but noticed no one had answered your post yet.
> There is a link to the Oak Park website down the left side of the page when you first enter the forum. Didn't think to copy the URL. Will come back later and post it as an edit.
> 
> ...


Here is my version of the Oak Park table.

I had to make mine as They will not ship outside NA

there is a definate disadvantage for larger pieces.

You will see the boxes I made. They are 80cm long and I needed to rout for the piano hinge. Even using the long fence and long side of the table it was too short to do a good job.

It would be good for smaller pieces. And was interesting to make and (I hope) good practice for the next one that will have a much longer top though not too much wider.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

sometimewoodworker said:


> Here is my version of the Oak Park table.
> 
> I had to make mine as They will not ship outside NA
> 
> ...


Hi Jerome, nice job :yes4:... Adding the sketchup with dimensions helps give a better perspective of what you have, wish I could get the hang of that program
What kind of problems did you have? I'm going to guess infeed or outfeed support.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

jschaben said:


> Hi Jerome, nice job :yes4:... Adding the sketchup with dimensions helps give a better perspective of what you have, wish I could get the hang of that program
> What kind of problems did you have? I'm going to guess infeed or outfeed support.


Hi John

You almost have it.

The boxes are 2x Systainer so they are all 30cm x 80cm. So far I have Sys 1, 2, 3, and 4 Hights

The side material is 1.7cm and the piano hinge needs about 1.6cm x 3mm x 76cm taken off the lid and base. 

The table had neither the front to Router bit depth nor the infeed and outfeed length to support either the box or even the box on a 10mm full length/width jig.

The boxes may well be a larger size and the piano hinge longer than most people will make but they are not huge.

The table is perfectly useable for smaller work but it is clear to me that a 2nd larger one is essential for my work.

On the subject of SketchUp the main benefit I found was in placing the Dominos. FWIW The hole for the power cable/dust extractor hose was placed in the SketchUp file after drilling the hole in the side. It looks too big in the SU drawing but is correct from the actual hole.

If anyone is interested the Shetchup file is at ftp://ftp.meekings.net/Woodwork/
the file does not have the hard wood edging or router plate support or the melamine top.

The reason these are not included is that I didn't need them for my own build. They aren't difficult to add if you want them. I can't at the moment as the router table is 3000 miles and 3 months away.

Feel free to copy the design or use the Shetchup file under the GNU GPL copyleft license :yes4:

This Sketchup file is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation, version 3 of the License,

This file is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

sometimewoodworker said:


> Here is my version of the Oak Park table.
> 
> I had to make mine as They will not ship outside NA
> 
> ...


Great job...sometimewoodworker


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

I started this thread about buying a router table and come across Joe’s response to my post in the Router Forums. Thought it would be good to open the floor and have a discussion on some of the different thoughts about the router table. 

*My response is over at my blog and you can either comment at my blog or post your comments here at this thread.*


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It's obvious that you're very opinionated on what you've created and what you use and recommend. So I really won't get into everything you've posted.

But I will say I think you're wrong about MDF. My first table was two 3/4" sheets of MDF, laminated with Formica, along with a MDF fence. It was a very good material for both. If not for a couple of very good deals on phenolic ply and a commercial fence, I'd still be using both. And I leave myself open to the possibility of using either again.

I also don't get the argument about not being able to change the bit if the router plate is placed in the middle. The Rockler top, the Bosch, the Kreg, the PC...all look to have plenty of room to set the motor on. After all, it's not a 747 we're doing an oil change on.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Chris,

From what I got from the "discussion" is, it has nothing to do with changing bits at all, it's where do you store your bits? The OP table is the only table on the market that has a built-in shelf for bit storage. Even if it's only temporary. In fact, my upper shelf is for my bit storage and the second shelf is home to my guides. The guides stay with the table at all times, the bits do have a permanent storage case in which they stay when NOT in use. 

Please consider this as well, depending upon your location, climate, etc. This is going to make a huge impact upon what type of table top you have and use. All tops need to be sealed, this is a given fact. 

We all have our own techniques.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I believe this was the part being referred to.



BobandRick said:


> So first thing to look for is 1) where do I put my router to change the router bits? With the router mounted in the center there really is no place to put the router and change the router bit. Oh yes I know over on the workbench across the shop, that is real handy...


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

Great comments!

No sure about the MDF as it is not my favorite material. I guess I am just old fashioned. 

Next about the changing of the router bits: I assume you have experienced the changing process on the tables you mentioned...if so then hey I stand corrected and the router doesn't interfere with the base plate mounting hole making it award to change the router bit. 

I think now is a good time to outline the router bit changing process. Remember if you want to be good at using the router you need to be good at changing router bits and your router table can't hinder this process. Make sure you get this right. 

Here are my thoughts on the changing process with a plunge router without springs in the table: 

1) remove and position the router on the table, 

2) extend the plunge base and remove the router bit, 

3) place the router bit in the table's storage system, 

4) locate and remove the next bit from the router bit storage system, 

5) insert the new router bit and tighten the collet, 

6) reposition the router's sub-base to the next router bit's cutting height and 

7) re-insert the base and router into the table. 

Any more comments???


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Fair enough. MDF is a fantastic product when used properly. Cheap, dead-flat..there's a lot of people who get a bad taste for it from the cheaper furniture out there, but it certainly does have it's uses.

As for changing bits these days, I've gotten used to just changing it in the table. I screwed down my plate (because adjusting the router higher would cause it to move) and it's just as easy this way.

Just for information's sake, Rocker offers a blank plate insert for anyone who wants to multi-purpose their table.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

Hummm...screwing the base plate down and changing the router bit under the table? This is the backward way to change router bits and making set ups. 

So what about the comments about changing router bits in these tables with the base in the center of the router table...sounds like you don't have experience changing router bits in these tables and if you do you don't take advantage of the base plate system and it's superior techniques.

Hopefully I read the comments right?


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I built my table out of MDF with a formican top, and an oak edge, and has been very successful for me. My table is in my garage where it is exposed to humidity, and has still remained flat. I think I am going to replace the fence on it this year though.

I did center my router as well, and have always had room for changing bits.

I think what this proves is that we all have our own preferences and what works well for one of us may not for others.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

I guess what I am saying is, the changing of router bits has to be simple and easy to do...over the years we have fine tuned the process to a point that to change the router bit is not a problem and completed in seconds.

If you system to change a router bit takes more than a few minutes you will be asking yourself do I really want to do this change and set up. With practice comes confidence, with confidence comes satisfaction, and the next thing you know you're a craftsman making perfect wood joints with your router. 

For the TV show we didn't cut away then change the bit we just changed the bit, which had to be done in seconds and not minutes. It had to be easy not hard, etc...

My point here is with your router table you need to have a simple change process then once you have that the next thing is practice, practice and practice again until you have perfected the changing of router bits. 

For every hindrance like screwing the base to the table or having a table without correct space to set the router on or no storage place for router bits, which make it difficult to change bits and make set ups. The more of these road blocks the less fun your hobby becomes. 

Any more comments???


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I have done it both ways. Even in a 24x24 table, there's plenty of room to sit the motor down and change bits. The larger plates are 9x12 if I'm not mistaken, so even with a 18x18 table, there's acres of space. 

With the plate in the table, I can change bits faster than before. 30 seconds probably average. If I had an offset wrench, I bet I could get 10-15. Keeping it locked down for most operations ensures perfect alignment with my table and eliminates the plate and bit from moving relative to the work. 

This is what works for me, anyway.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

Cocheseuga said:


> Keeping it locked down for most operations ensures perfect alignment with my table and eliminates the plate and bit from moving relative to the work.
> 
> This is what works for me, anyway.


I don't understand "alignment" to what? 

The router bit is the only necessary alignment and it is mounted on the base plate. The base plate needs to fit in the hole on the table. Are you tell us that the base plate is a sloppy fit and without it being fasten in it moves while routing?

If this is right then I can see why you have it fastened to the router table...not a very safe practice. BTW: Making the hole for the base plate is not an easy task...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Bob:

Do you remember in your TV programs you said if the bit stuck, all you had to do was use a screw driver as a lever? Well, I had occasion to try it today. No matter where I put the two wrenches, no way in Hades could I get the screw driver lined up. I solved the problem with the straight arm technique. BTW, I'm using an M12V.

Ok, router tables, as someone noted, it all depends on what you're doing. 

I goofed and mounted two base plates diagonally on a 2'x4' table. I love the dual setup, I hate the diagonal. I made another error. I divided the table into two 2'x2' sections and mounted the base plates in the centre of each section. That meant that the bit was 12" from the edge, not the 5 1/2" (or so) on the your's.

Ok, I have one table for fence and bearing use. I have another table for long pieces (8') and I use bearings and edge guides on that. 

I have another table planned for ski use that will be 3'x4'. I won't need it until the fall so it is a low priority item. I'm collecting sugar maple to put this top together since I will be using hold downs and dogs rather than clamps.

I will also need a separate table for templates but that's not until late next winter.

I'm using lots of long stock, 14' long is not routine but frequent. To aid that I'm adding a vertical table to the side of my new base for molding edges. This is being elevated in priority so that will happen sometime after the retaining wall is finished. I have about 150 feet of exterior molding to do.

Now, I've gone through all of this so that others will see that there are a multitude of ways to use a router. I currently list 22 ways (I call them methods.) Jigs and fixtures are in addition to the methods and in some instances are exclusive to a specific method i.e. many dovetail jigs only work with hand held routers.

In no way am I presenting this to denigrate you or your achievements. You have assembled a very carefully constructed system of router methods and jigs that, in my humble opinion, is second to none. There are no other systems that offer such elegant simplicity and proffer a predictable quality in the end product.

But, I have found the members of this forum, yourselves (Rob and Rick) included, have expanded the use of a router well beyond conventional thinking. I now go to a woodworking show and listen to the "experts" and always come away disappointed that they're selling the same old 'same old.' 

I visited my local tool vendors looking for a router for use in an Angler and no one could figure out what I was talking about. Even when I showed them a picture, all I got was dumb looks. Don't even think about asking about ski mountings.

So, the question now becomes, how many different tables do we need? Oh, I've also thought about a round table for use by mobilly challenged crafts people.


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## BobandRick (Aug 4, 2004)

hummm....interesting comments Allthumbs?

As for the screw driver you must have me mixed up with some one else. I never us a screw driver when releasing router bits. But hey what every works...be sure not to damage the carbide.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

BobandRick said:


> I don't understand "alignment" to what?
> 
> The router bit is the only necessary alignment and it is mounted on the base plate. The base plate needs to fit in the hole on the table. Are you tell us that the base plate is a sloppy fit and without it being fasten in it moves while routing?
> 
> If this is right then I can see why you have it fastened to the router table...not a very safe practice. BTW: Making the hole for the base plate is not an easy task...


Aligned to the rest of the table - ie, surface height. 

It's absolutely, perfectly safe.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I absolutely agree with you on bit changing! In fact when I went to purchase my router (Bosh 1617) and built my router table, I wanted to be able change my bits as quick as you did on the show. Granted I am not the pro you guys are. The biggest set back is that I don't have good permanent router bit storage. I am looking to build a stand for my new planer, and I have put serious consideration into also making it a storage cabinet for easy router bit access and a safe place to keep other router accessories and jigs.

However, that aside, when working on the router table, I usually put my bits on my table saw. Once I get to this point, I will set my router upside down on top of the router table, and I am typically able to change bits and get the depth set in less than a minute.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I must be the odd ball in the deck. I can switch bits in a heart beat without pulling the router out of the table top..(and I do use the OP plate in one of the router tables) .I use the off set wrench most of the time and I don't need to move or reclamp ..the fence most of the time..just move it just a little bit the norm..
I got the tip from Bob R. when I saw him using the PC router and he just pop the router up and made the bit change quick and easy 

Here's a shot of the table and the plate.

======


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## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

*Why is it not safe to fasten the plate to the table?*



BobandRick said:


> ... The base plate needs to fit in the hole on the table. Are you tell us that the base plate is a sloppy fit and without it being fasten in it moves while routing?
> 
> If this is right then I can see why you have it fastened to the router table...not a very safe practice. BTW: Making the hole for the base plate is not an easy task...


I was wondering why fastening the plate to the table is not a safe practice.

As you state, it's not easy to make a perfectly fitting hole that the plate is wedged into so that it doesn't move. When fastened to the table the plate won't move either. Where exactly is the difference? And what exactly is wrong with a hole that is, say, 0.5 mm larger that the plate - enough to give inconsistent results when routing, but perhaps not enough to redo the whole table.

Some commercial setups have you fasten the plate to the table. Is that because of 'sloppy' work?

Thanks - MM


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

If you fasten your plate, you'll need to make sure that it's flat all the way around. I had an old craftsmen RT once that the plate had to be screwed down, factory made this way. In order to change bits, had to unscrew the plate from the top. Too much of a PITA method. I'm glad I scraped that table and only kept the fence. 

You also don't want to have a "sloppy" fit with your plate either. Lets say your making a profile cut, the plate moves, one way, you may not be removing anything, the other, you may end up removing more than you want. Not good. Anymore, plates usually have a template that you use to create the opening with. A snug fit, not too tight nor too loose, just right.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Should you end up with a recess that is a little too large, it should be shimmed to hold the plate steady. Combinations of wood, tape, glue, business cards and playing cards are some of the items I'm aware of that have been used.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I agree with the other post if the hole is just a little bit to big or to say a bit "sloppy" you can put in some 1/8" dowel pins in the 2 corners, this will hole the plate true and it will hold the plate down but still be easy to pop it out when you want to lift the router out and blow it off now and than,, to keep the router dust out of the switch box..and the motor...

Don't forget routers are not made to run upside down  all the time...

=======


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Many plates will have leveling screws to level the plate with the table before it's fastened down. I do all bit changing & adjustments with the router mounted in the table. I can change the bit just as fast as any other method without having to lift out a 3lb router.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I have several things to say that may be redundant, and most of which were learned from the Router Workshop while my PBS station still carried it and from this forum.

In no way should I be confused with an "expert" when it comes to woodworking.

The first point is that the Oak-Park table top is plywood; multi layered (I want to say 19 layers) Baltic Birch. The plywood is NOT big box store or typical lumber store plywood. Big box store plywood may have smooth, even surfaces but there are many fewer layers and internally there may be gaps which create weak spots. I still do not know with what material the O-P table top is laminated, but certainly Ken and others are absolutely correct about the importance of both sides being laminated. (As if I am qualified or competent to judge their experience and wisdom; I learn from them.)

Given my background in router work I find no reason to fasten the router plate to the table top; all that has been said about changing router bits as done on the Router Workshop is what makes sense to me, although Bj's offset wrench has merit also. However, the O-P plate system allows one to easily change base plates. I do not see that advantage in any of the (more expensive) metal plates; they all seem to want the router or even only the router motor to be permanently attached. Thus one would be forced to have one router for the table, maybe one more for a separate table with a plate with a wide opening, and certainly a separate router for handheld use.

The one thing about which I am concerned is having the router bit perpendicular to the baseplate. I have no answers for this issue, but it seems to me to be much easier with an Oak-Park type plate than any of the metal plates that get fastened to the table.

I have had problems with the the O-P plate not being flush with the table top; it is often proud of the table top just enough to mess up using a glue joint bit if pressure is applied to the distal edge of a wide workpiece.

Where should the plate be on the table? I am a special case and so while I am inclined to follow the wisdom of BobandRick, I need for the plate to be near the center in the wide direction but closer to the front edge. I am confined to a wheelchair and need to have my legs under the table, with the router between my legs. I also need for the table stand to be open so I can get my legs under it I think this need for a centered plate and open table support to be true of all who must or find it more comfortable to sit at the router table. The router bit collection does need also to be within easy reach, so I usually have them immediately to my right. 

I have gone on long enough and could certainly have run up my post count.:laugh:

I do hope my thread killer powers are disabled for this very informative thread!


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

mftha said:


> I have several things to say that may be redundant, and most of which were learned from the Router Workshop while my PBS station still carried it and from this forum.
> 
> In no way should I be confused with an "expert" when it comes to woodworking.
> 
> ...


Well OK, I am running up my post count:laugh:

There is one more point. What I have learned from the Router Workshop is that the fence need be parallel to only one thing: the router bit. Since the router bit rotates in a circular motion, any orientation of the fence works so long as there is a proper relationship to the workpiece. The height of the fence and how to solidly attach the fence to the table are critical issues. With some types of long bits such as crown molding bits and bits for workpieces of thickness greater than about one inch (25.4 mm) the workpiece needs to be able to be firmly supported in the vertical direction as well as the horizontal direction. A high fence, perhaps 6 in (150 mm) high or higher might be needed. However, that height is needed only near the router bit; it could be much less high near the edges of the router table so that it could be clamped. 

T-tracks have always (in my long history as a router user :laugh:) been a mystery to me except to support feather boards. Bob and Rick did show on the Router Workshop a T-track-independent horizontal feather board, but I do not know of any way other than a T-track within the fence itself to support a vertical feather board.

Please do not let my two posts be the last word on this very important and informative thread!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Tom,

By NO MEANS have you killed this thread my friend!!  You have certainly brought in more insight to it.  

You mentioned feather boards, glad you did. If my memory is serving correctly, I think Bob&Rick used a "modified", tall fence to take on the vert. feather boards. I'd have to do some searching in my DVD collection.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Tom:

It is wise to return to basics before arguing a point. Thanks Tom for bringing us all back down to earth.



mftha said:


> ...changing router bits as done on the Router Workshop is what makes sense to me, although Bj's offset wrench has merit also.


I broke my Craftsman router casing using the spindle lock trying to release a bit. Since then, I'm exclusively a two wrench man.



> However, the O-P plate system allows one to easily change base plates.


Very good point. Especially in small budget shops where multifunctionality is a key component of efficiency and cost effectiveness.



> The one thing about which I am concerned is having the router bit perpendicular to the baseplate. I have no answers for this issue, but it seems to me to be much easier with an Oak-Park type plate than any of the metal plates that get fastened to the table.


This is more a function of the router base than the base plate. However, even if the base is slightly off, the effect on the workpiece will not be great. Should the workpiece be slightly off, it won't be noticeable in molding and easily jointed off on long straight pieces.



> I have had problems with the the O-P plate not being flush with the table top; it is often proud of the table top just enough to mess up using a glue joint bit if pressure is applied to the distal edge of a wide workpiece.


This is a big point for me and if Bob and Rick are tuned in, please provide guidance on this. Currently, I have 3 x 11" base plates, two small hole and one large hole. I did my table hole exactly the thickness of one of the baseplates only to find that the other two don't sit perfectly. Ken suggests slightly trimming the corners of the base plates when they sit proud but I also have the opposite problem where the base plate actually sits below the table surface. My three plates are off about 1/32nd in.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*Comments Please*

Ok, Comments Please

I've defined four router table tops. They are based on a base that is 19" wide x 42" long x 36" tall to the table top but the ski/angler top is thicker so that will be 37" tall. 

1. a standard 2'x4'x1" top for base plates and fixed angler uses. (if you don't know what an angler is, go to Santé's site. He has a plunge angler there. I've forgotten what he calls it.) This is a two holer and hopefully I can use my Makita router in this one.

2. a torsion frame 4' x 8' x 4" for long, over sized and panels. This is short so I can work over it. I can clamp in a variety of ways.

3. a 3' x 4' x 2" for floating angler and skis hopefully with hold downs, if I can find them.

4. a 19" x 42" x 1" top for template and vertical table use. The size is the smallest of my tables and is a combination of Tom O'Donell's and Bill Hylton's. 

There is a single base and the tops are interchanged as needed. I haven't figured out how to swap them out yet or to store them. The torsion table is already made and works well but I sliced the rails at 4" and I think that's a bit too narrow. I don't get vertical deflection, but horizontally they're pretty wobbly.

I'd appreciate any ideas.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Ron,

It'd take a fair-sized shop with a high ceiling to use this approach to storing / swapping tops but think about some of the older cars with removable hardtops.. like some of the Corvettes, T-Birds, Mercedes and others... the tops are awkward to store and add/remove w/o scratching something. Aftermarket companies offer rope and pulley systems to lift them near the ceiling of the garage when not in use. With a base on wheels it would be a piece of cake. 

Just a little post-BBQ thinking here.. <g>


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> Ron,
> 
> It'd take a fair-sized shop with a high ceiling to use this approach to storing / swapping tops but think about some of the older cars with removable hardtops.. like some of the Corvettes, T-Birds, Mercedes and others... the tops are awkward to store and add/remove w/o scratching something. Aftermarket companies offer rope and pulley systems to lift them near the ceiling of the garage when not in use. With a base on wheels it would be a piece of cake.
> 
> Just a little post-BBQ thinking here.. <g>


Hi Jim:

The ceiling is somewhat occupied. However, as you note, scratching is a problem. Given that none of the tops are sacrificial, I'm loathe to store them anywhere they're not fully protected.

You've just given me an idea. I should have enough room on the clamp tree, between the posts.

Thanks Jim, I'm going to go measure this one up straight away.

Just a quick addenda to above, the duplicator and router lathe and most jigs can function on the standard 2'x4' top.

Now, for a way to quickly release a top and swap it out for another.

Thanks for the stimulation Jim.


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## patrick kane (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanx but it wont open
Not sure if fault is on my or your side
Pat


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*further to previous "Comments Please" post*

Since this posting I've redefined the tables, again. This is the new listing. Your comments are appreciated (except space cadet ones.)

1. a standard 2'x4'x1" top for base plates, bearings and fixed angler uses. (if you don't know what an angler is, go to Santé's site. He has a plunge angler there. I've forgotten what he calls it.) This is a two holer and hopefully I can use my Makita router in this one.

2. a torsion frame 4' x 8' x 4" for long, over sized and panels. Also for use with track router. This is short so I can work over it. I would suggest at least 30" in height from the floor to the top of the frame. I can clamp in a variety of ways.

3. a 3' x 4' x 2" for floating angler and skis hopefully with hold downs, if I can find them. If you're using hold downs the top should be solid maple 1 3/4" thick.

4. a 19" x 42" x 1" top for template and vertical table use. The size is the smallest of my tables and is a combination of Tom O'Donell's and Bill Hylton's. 

5. a 4' square by 1" thick template and pivot frame table. The circle is about 40" and indexed. The rectangle is the full 4' outside and allow for 1"x1"x48" rails. It can be fitted with a cam board or a bolt down or any of the template "mother boards."

There is a single base and the tops are interchanged as needed. I haven't figured out how to swap them out yet or to store them. The torsion table is already made and works well but I sliced the rails at 4" and I think that's a bit too narrow. I don't get vertical deflection, but horizontally they're pretty wobbly.

I'm still working on the concept of a round table, perhaps tiltable with a secant fence.

As always, I'd appreciate any ideas and comments.

Ron


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