# How to set bit height in collet?



## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

Ok folks, quick question....

I have a bunch of Craftsman routers. In my table is the 14 amp Craftsman professional router. While using it the other day, I noticed a bit of vibration. I removed the bit, cleaned the collet, and reseated the bit. Then I noticed a problem....

On most of the Craftsman routers, there is a spindle lock so that the bit can be tightened with one wrench. However, the lock protrudes enough such that it hits the shank on the router bit when tightening (and consequently, skews it just enough to induce runout, thereby causing vibration). From the safety side of things, this seems almost as bad as bottoming out the bit, as anything that prevents the collet from tightening perfectly seems dangerous. 

If I raise it above the spindle lock, the bit runs true, presumably because there is no longer a side load while tightening. But the problem is, now the bit is considerably higher in the router, which is not a good thing for safety reasons.

I read the owner's manual, and all it says is to insert all the way into the collet and then back it off a little. I can't imagine Craftsman designed it so that I have to keep the bit this high, but I still wanted to check.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

> ...and all it says is to insert all the way into the collet and then back it off a little.


That is what I have been doing since the 80's.


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## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> That is what I have been doing since the 80's.


Right, but if I do that with this router, the spindle lock hits the shank on the bit


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

You got the model number or schmatic we can look at ,something definitely wrong.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

John I can't quite picture what you mean but you just need to make sure that 100% of the collet is being used. That is usually about 1" of shank. More won't hold any better but having less shank exposed makes it less likely to break a shank on 1/4" bits.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Copyright said:


> Ok folks, quick question....
> 
> I have a bunch of Craftsman routers. In my table is the 14 amp Craftsman professional router. While using it the other day, I noticed a bit of vibration. I removed the bit, cleaned the collet, and reseated the bit. Then I noticed a problem....
> 
> ...


measure the length of the collet....
add a 1/16" or so...
that's how deep you need to set the bit at an absolute minimum...

still won't work....
up grade to better bits w/ longer shanks or remove the lock and go to two wrenches...


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

I bought a bunch of *"O" *rings that are 1/2" diameter and 1/4 diameter and place them on the shafts of my router bits. When I place the bit in the router the O ring keeps it from going all the way in.
I buy them at the plumbing section of Lowes and have been using this method successfully for many years...Works like a charm...


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## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

I've attached the pics.

The first shows the bit tightened above the spindle lock.

The second shows the bit bottomed out and then raised ~1/16".

The third shows the spindle lock in the bottom protruding into the space where the shank would be.

The fourth shows the collet installed and the spindle lock protruding. Note that this still looks to be below the actual collet. 

My question is whether or not this is safe to tighten it at the height shown in the first pic (which is probably 1/4"+ higher than bottomed out).


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Looking at the pictures kind hard to tell but I think you have installed collet wrong, it should be inside collet nut which would raise the nut a 1/16


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hi John. Re: pic #4, does the spindle lock protrude into the spindle area when you are not depressing the spindle lock?


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## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

RMIGHTY1 said:


> Hi John. Re: pic #4, does the spindle lock protrude into the spindle area when you are not depressing the spindle lock?


no.

Only when tightening. I've even loosened pressure on the button when tightening so that it doesn't protrude all the way in. It works okay, but it does have a tendency to slip.


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## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

Semipro said:


> Looking at the pictures kind hard to tell but I think you have installed collet wrong, it should be inside collet nut which would raise the nut a 1/16


There is only one possible way to install the collet.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

how far below the collet is the shaft lock???


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Copyright said:


> no.
> 
> Only when tightening. I've even loosened pressure on the button when tightening so that it doesn't protrude all the way in. It works okay, but it does have a tendency to slip.


Sounds like a combo...spring has weakened and lock pin has worn or rounded. Pin should hold depressed even if shank is in the way of the pin...

Maybe...?


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

John, To me it looks as though the manufacturer goofed up this one. The lock pin should NEVER interfere with the bit...EVER! The lock pin should stop before touching the bit. You could still use it by making sure the bit is not installed deep enough to contact the pin as long as you have full contact inside the collet. What a pain! I would check for a re-call or take it back. Good luck!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This pdf should answer your question.


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## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

Thanks, Harry! quite clear explanation.
Sid


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

John...may I suggest changing the order of things...

Starting with empty collet but installed...insert bit to desired depth into collet...depress lock pin...then spin/tighten collet nut. Spindle will turn until pin engages...tighten...

Nick


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

i had problems with vibration and large router bits working loose on a pc 2hp plunge router mounted in my mouter table, got rid of it and bought a pc 7518 fixed router.


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

i also use a dw 3hp plunge router with soft start and variable speed


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

i use a dw611 on my sears router crafter, a nice small powerful router.


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

i was wondering if anyone had mounted a dewalt router in a legacy ornamental mill


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

i recently bought a legacy mill trying to figure out how best to mount the router


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## davefrommd (Mar 1, 2008)

the dewalt router 3hp plunge router


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

My repair Philosophy:
*'It worked before. Now it doesn't. What's changed?'
*
I'd tear down that whole top end assembly; somethings preventing the spindle lock from fully retracting. Crud is the most likely culprit.


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## AlAmantea (Feb 27, 2015)

Well, the first thing i would try would definitely NOT be a tear down.
simply not needed unless the lock pin is interfering with the router during operation.

The easiest fix for this is to change your bit change proceedure.
1. Loosen collet as normal
2. Remove bit
3. DEPRESS LOCK PIN BEFORE INSERTING NEW BIT
4. Insert new bit with lock button depressed.
5. Tighten collet.
6. Release lock button and spin the bit to check for interference. 
7. Adjust bit height and route profile.

Simple, easy, and no need to do anything to the router.

I have a 1/2" O.D. O-Ring inserted and bottomed out inside the shaft of my routers (or 1/4") to cushion the bits. This allows me to fully insert the bit, allowing it to rest on top of the o-ring before tightening it. When the bit is tightened, it compresses the o-ring to allow the bit to seat in the collet.
I have never had a bit come loose or had a bit jam itself in the collet after i did this.
this is NOT my idea, though. I got the tip from Mark Sommersfeld, a fine purveyor of products for woodworking with routers. 
I dont work there, and take my advice with a grain of salt.

Al Amantea
Amantea Fine Woodworks


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I repeat: 'It worked before. Now it doesn't. What's changed?'
That's the whole point. Something's changed. It used to work just fine doing what the OP had always done. Changing his install routine may actually be a work-around but it won't fix the real problem. If the router has never had a major overhaul, it's long overdue.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

semipro said:


> looking at the pictures kind hard to tell but i think you have installed collet wrong, it should be inside collet nut which would raise the nut a 1/16



+1


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

jw2170 said:


> +1


It appears that the collet and nut are as one, so it is in the correct way.
Collet Asy [2823121000] for Craftsman Power Tool | eReplacement Parts


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

DaninVan said:


> My repair Philosophy:
> *'It worked before. Now it doesn't. What's changed?'
> *
> I'd tear down that whole top end assembly; somethings preventing the spindle lock from fully retracting. Crud is the most likely culprit.


That Dan was my philosophy during my highly successful 50 year career in the consumer electronics industry. We would often received VCR's that had been to other repair shops where levers have been bent, springs shortened, components added which hid the actual fault. Such things were never a permanent fix, only finding what had changed since leaving the factory was!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Amen, Harry.


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## gkobernus (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been having problems with my bits coming loose. Is this the reason for the recommendation to back the bit out before tightening? A great way to ruin a project!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gkobernus said:


> I've been having problems with my bits coming loose. Is this the reason for the recommendation to back the bit out before tightening? A great way to ruin a project!


sounds like you need to do some collet maintenance...


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## malb (Sep 15, 2008)

gkobernus said:


> I've been having problems with my bits coming loose. Is this the reason for the recommendation to back the bit out before tightening? A great way to ruin a project!


The collet itself is seated in a taper, and as the nut is tightened, the collet is pushed deeper into the taper, causing it to grip the bit shank. Once the shank is initially gripped, final tightening also draws the shank further into the collet system.

If the shank bottoms out in the collet body, the only way that you can continue to tighten the nut is for the collet to slip on the shank. This will continue until the collet starts to firmly grip the shank, at which point the collet nut will appear fully tight, but the collet will not be fully seated in its taper for maximum grip on the shank.

Once the bit is loaded (removing wood), the asymmetrical side load on the bit will be coupled to the shank allowing it to 'sqirm' in the collet as the collet is not fully seated in it's taper, and ultimately the bit will slip and move in the collet, creating a hazard for the operator and damaging the job the bit is working.

The design concept for a tapered collet system is that it allows the use of interchangeable bits while creating a situation where the bit, collet assembly, and motor spindle work as a single rigid unit. i.e. as though the flutes were produced on the spindle itself, rather than mounted at third hand.

By leaving sufficient room between the base of the shank and the base of the collet cavity, the nut can push the collet into the tapered seat all the way, and draw the shank into the void until the nut is fully tighted. However the counter side of the issue is that if the shank does not extend through the collet and slightly beyond, then tightening the collet will deform it and also allow the bit to slip and move. Hence the requirement for a compromise, i.e insert the bit in the collet until it bottoms then withdraw a specified amount, or bottom onto a spongy material like an O ring, which will compress to make room for the bit to be drawn down during tightening.


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## floydflame (Sep 21, 2010)

*Seating a router bit*

I lost track of who say it, but it looks like your collet is outside the seating nut. Take the nut off, insert the collet inside, then screw it back on your router. That should fix it.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

floydflame said:


> I lost track of who say it, but it looks like your collet is outside the seating nut. Take the nut off, insert the collet inside, then screw it back on your router. That should fix it.


That appears to be how you buy the collet and nut assembly.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

I use O-Rings to limit the depth of the router bit. I also have a set of round wire brushes to clean the collet prior to each use and a small piece of 800 grit sandpaper to clean the shank before I insert the router bit.


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## max l (May 17, 2007)

Retainer bands from the orthodontist or on line work nearly as well as the O-rings and each bit can have its own retainer. Small but effective.


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## RogerInColorado (Aug 29, 2013)

I think SemiPro is right. The collet looks like it is upside down. If the spindle lock presses against the shank of the bit, then keep the lock depressed while you insert the bit and hand tighten the nut. Then the lock can't interfere while you use the wrench.

Here is something important. Make sure the collet and the collet nut are correctly assembled before you screw the collet onto the router shaft. If it is not, you may never be able to extract the bit. Most collet assemblies on routers are usually held together by a c-ring or a snap-groove arrangement. Go to you local Craftsman supplier and look a their collets to see what I mean. You may need to buy a new one because that's not an area where failure is always bloodless.


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## Rocketbob (Mar 19, 2012)

RMIGHTY1 said:


> Hi John. Re: pic #4, does the spindle lock protrude into the spindle area when you are not depressing the spindle lock?


I had a similar problem on two Craftsman routers. Aggravating I know. John said he has several C routers. I keep the collects and nuts in a wood box, 1/4 and 1/2 inch. my problem turned out to be the collet nuts are different lengths, the longer one reaches the housing holding the lock pin, the shorter one went to far and crushed the collet. it took a while to figure this out. I bought a new collet assembly, but now I keep the collets for each router in respective places. John, have you used the wrong nut and collet on your router? A long shot, but just maybe.


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## Peohguy (Oct 22, 2012)

I don't understand your comment. It certainly looks like in the picture that the collet is inside the collet nut, how else could you install it? With the nut inside the collet? I don't think so.
Den


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

Absoluty no about that the collet is upside down, its only one way to install it. :no: I think that what mentioned for Rocketbob shoud have in mind, thats a good possibility.


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## markbdusted (Dec 26, 2013)

*I have that router*

I have that model Craftsman and think I understand the situation. The photos showed collet installed correctly. 
The spindle lock pin is well below the collet so the bit does not need to be placed that deep.
Here is what I suggest push the lock pin in then insert bit down until it contacts the pin. Then raise the bit just slightly and tighten collet nut. As one of the others commented the bit only needs to be fully engaged witj collet. 
If you still get runout with this method I would suspect the collet is damaged or has debri in it.


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## baran (Dec 25, 2014)

Yes RM,
that is what I was going to ask.
Make sure the lock is indeed going all the back out when not depressed. also is this a new problem or has it always done this? What I am getting at is it could be the lock mechanism is sticky from old shavings.
Also are we sure the collet is not upside down?
BTW Greg's tip with the O"rings is really cool I am going to do that to all my bits, thanks Greg


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## dhellyar (Oct 6, 2010)

Hey John, My recommendation would be to purchase another router. Seriously I didn't even know that craftsman made a router. Craftsman power tools have never been known to be of a higher quality.


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

dannyh said:


> Hey John, My recommendation would be to purchase another router. *Seriously I didn't even know that craftsman made a router.* Craftsman power tools have never been known to be of a higher quality.


Till I know they are made for other brands, like RYOBI and other.


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## Rocketbob (Mar 19, 2012)

John, did you get your router collet failure corrected? What did you find out. I have a lot of Craftsman power tools, I love them. There is not a tool that won't fail at some point. Before the internet, most of us in small towns only knew Sears/Craftsman.


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

Rocketbob said:


> John, did you get your router collet failure corrected? What did you find out. I have a lot of Craftsman power tools, I love them. There is not a tool that won't fail at some point. Before the internet, most of us in small towns only knew Sears/Craftsman.


Some years ago, that was a true, also in my Country: just Sears/Craftsman, and I have a lot of Cratsman power tools too or any kind of tool. Now you can get some other brands. But as I mentioned above, other brands makes Craftsman tools. :dance3:


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## kingsleystag61 (Nov 27, 2009)

*Easy fix*

Peohguy and Roger in CO are right. Install the collet properly, inside and below the top of the nut, and the problem is solved.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

kingsleystag61 said:


> Peohguy and Roger in CO are right. Install the collet properly, inside and below the top of the nut, and the problem is solved.


As has already been said by another owner of the same router, it is installed correctly, see this link.


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## Duane Bledsoe (Jan 6, 2013)

Yes, the collet is installed correctly. I used to own several Craftsman routers and that is how the are all made. The tip of the collet sticks out above the top of the nut. This prevents it from coming out when the whole thing is removed for changing from 1/2 to 1/4 sized collets. That is how they are designed. I never had the problem the OP is having with mine, so the collet looking like it does is not the problem. However, I did have other problems. I solved them by switching to DeWalt.


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## baran (Dec 25, 2014)

Dewalt are not too expensive and they make pretty goo stuff
I buy the best tools my wife says i can have
Seriously we are all limited to what we can spend on our toys 
But most times it does not pay to buy a cheaper made product.
On the other hand while the craftsman router being discussed is an economy buy, I would say for the money it is not a bad deal.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

John...not sure if you've solved your problem yet or not...

It certainly makes sense that you should insert your bit where you feel it is appropriate...

If the bit is inserted past the spindle lock, so be it. The lock cannot travel into the bit nor can it lock into the bit so it must be ok to insert bit, depress to lock and then tighten.

It also seems that the lock might be a bit sticky...I would recommended a good cleaning. Blow it out taking care not to blow dust into the windings. Then see if it operates smoothly when depressing and releasing. If the lock and housing can be removed, try some bit cleaner in case you may have some pitch buildup. Clean thoroughly and make sure it is dry before reinstalling.

Check the collet and any taper to make sure there are no burrs, clean the collet carefully to make sure there is no dust or buildup between the collet and the nut.

Then try again...insert bit, engage the lock and spin by hand until lock engages, then tighten...

Hope you've taken care of the problem by now...


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## Copyright (Sep 30, 2013)

Just wanted to give an update.

I'm 100% positive the collet is installed correctly. I was in Sears the other day and happened to look at their display model. It also had the spindle lock protruding. 

So I guess this is the design.

For the record, the shank is fully engaged by the collet. I guess there just happens to be a lot of room under it.


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## AlAmantea (Feb 27, 2015)

baran said:


> Dewalt are not too expensive and they make pretty goo stuff
> I buy the best tools my wife says i can have
> Seriously we are all limited to what we can spend on our toys
> But most times it does not pay to buy a cheaper made product.
> On the other hand while the craftsman router being discussed is an economy buy, I would say for the money it is not a bad deal.


/BEGINRANT

The tool does not make the craftsman, but it does make the craftsman's job easier. There is nothing wrong with purchasing a less expensive tool with less features or bells & whistles, as long as the basics are solid, and the tool functions correctly. 
A Craftsman router can make the same quality cut that a Busch, or Dewalt, or Porter Cable can. That is more a function of the bit itself, not the router. 
With all that said, a good quality mid level router does make those nice cuts easier. With more horsepower, easier to adjust depth settings, multiple bases, etc., the task can become a joy I stead of a hardship. 
Craftsman tools are fine. I know many a woodworker who uses them, including myself. My table saw is a craftsman contractor saw that I bought new on sale for $700.00 with a mobile base, dust collection builtin, and a 24/24 fence. By some standards, a cheap table saw. 
By adjusting it properly, learning its particulars, and taking good care of it, I can assure you that I can do repeatable cuts within. 001", day after day, hour after hour. 
One of my 5 routers is a craftsman (in my router table) 2 1/2 hp. It cuts as well as my $400 Busch setup, or my $500 Triton in my big table. I buy quality bits and have learned the particulars of my tools through practice and use. 
The OP is maybe a little inexperienced, and unsure of the tool. No reason to downgrade his choices of purchase. I kinda see this as "tool bullying" (mine is better than yours; my dad can beat up your dad, etc.) and I get kinda tired of hearing it all the time. 
If you have nothing constructive to say other than buy a better tool (read that = your choice sucks and so do you) then please have the courtesy to refrain, and allow those of who can and want to to help. 
I say this in response to a lot of others in this post, you just happen to be my focus as the latest to post this kind of drivel. For that, I apologize in advance. 

/ENDRANT

Al


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