# how to route a groove.



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I want to route a V groove 1/2" from the edge around this oval. I want to do it the safest [as in no goofs] way. This is my third time to make this sign and I am tired of it. On one of my mess up's I used double stick tape to attach a block of wood to the routers base and use that as a fence. I could do it but it's risky. The other way is use the router table and drop the sign on top of the bit and let the sign ride the fence. So far this seems the best way. I am just looking for more and better ideas.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

My choice would be the router table.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Make a V shaped guide for the table router large enough to accept your sign. 2X2s would be good. You'll likely need to cut the ends of the legs to set against the fence at the angle you'll need for the V to fit your circle. Center the bit between the legs of the V, and far enough away from the fence to give you the half inch you want. 
Then hold the sign in place against the guide and lower it onto the spinning bit and turn it against the rotation of the bit.
Hope that made sense.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

pencil in the line..
hand router it w/ inlay groover...

make a smaller oval template ans use a bearing guided bit or your bushings in your router...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The issue with doing it with an edge guide or like Gene suggests is that the shape is elliptical and will bridge across the gaps differently where the slope has a larger radius that it will on the ends where the radius is smaller. The most accurate method I would say is to cut the shape out of some scrap and use that as a template and then use a guide bushing.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Looks round to me. Chuck is right. If it's elliptical, my method won't work.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

it's elliptical....


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I think Stick's got it right.

HJ


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

In doing my platter I learned concentric ellipsis are difficult to layout. I used the string method to do one Then wanted one 1/2" smaller so I moved the pins 1/2" Nope its not concentric trace the shape to make a jig to hold it or freehand a hand drawn inner line which is something I can not do Bill free hand =booboo


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Don, what are the dimensions (major and minor axes) of your (beautiful as it is) sign? What is the width of the V-groove you want to cut?
Rockler sells an ellipse jig http://http://www.rockler.com/rockler-ellipse-circle-router-jig

Another possibility using sacrificial pieces and template guides: (it is now 4 AM and I need to get some sleep.I thought I had the template guide siizes and router bit sizes figured out but it required a template guide size only available from Oak-Park. Can the 1/2 inch centering of the V-groove be off by 1/16 inch? To be continued.)To be continued.)


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I'm thinking that a female template would be the better option as the router, fitted with a guide bushing, would be easier to control. To make a template, all you need is a circular disc of the appropriate diameter - calculated to give you the correct location of the groove from the edge of the ellipse and based on the OD of the guide bushing you will be using. Garret Wade used to carry a tool that could be used Profile Scribe: Carpenter's Profile Scribe, Tracing Profile Scribing Tool - Garrett Wade but I see that it's no longer available but it should be fairly easy to make something similar for a one-time use - a couple of plywood discs glued together with a center hole to suit a mechanical pencil should work. The sign would have to be fixed to a backer, and the template would have to be raised above the sign.

Stopped to think here - the OP was looking for the center of the groove to be 1/2" from the edge of the sign so a female template having the SAME dimensions as the sign would work, trace around the sign, cut to the inside of the line and sand smooth - check for a snug fit to the OD of the sign while you're sanding. To locate the template "concentric" to the sign, cut a handful of equal length pieces of dowel rod and attach them to the underside of the template with the OD of the dowel tangent to the ellipse - these will act to both raise the template above the sign and locate it relative to the sign. Fix the sign to a backer board, drop the template over the sign and attach it to the backer and you should be good to go.

The first method would work if a spacing that couldn't be achieved with a template guide was needed.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

hawkeye10 said:


> I want to route a V groove 1/2" from the edge around this oval. I want to do it the safest [as in no goofs] way. This is my third time to make this sign and I am tired of it. On one of my mess up's I used double stick tape to attach a block of wood to the routers base and use that as a fence. I could do it but it's risky. The other way is use the router table and drop the sign on top of the bit and let the sign ride the fence. So far this seems the best way. I am just looking for more and better ideas.


I vote for dropping the piece on the bit and riding the fence...

It may just be me but I wouldn't want to mess with making a perfect template in order to ride a bushing or bearing against effectively doing what you already did with the edge guide.

If you were making a bunch the same size then I would prefer making a template...just my 1 1/2 cents...


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## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

In my vast experience (insert rim shot here):

You can't use the router table with an oval piece: you will not be able to keep the groove equidistant from the edge. No way this can be done freehand.

I would reject an edge guide for the same reason.

You can put a 1/2" wide guide on the edge of the piece (exactly same size oval, just a bit smaller); attach it to the sign with double stick tape. Attach a 2nd, inner oval with double stick tape so the router will sit level while you are referencing the outer oval with the guide. Make the cut in a few shallow passes. If you want a decorative groove, one shallow pass may be enough.

This may be the technique that tomp913 is advocating; I'm unsure of what a female template is. But then, it's well documented I don't understand all things female.

In the end, this technique duplicates what I've done for juice grooves on my cutting boards. I got fairly good at the technique ... and still had boards that I ruined when the guide slipped, or I didn't reference the outer guide tightly enough. My craftsmanship was never 100% accurate, in other words. I hope you will do better, especially since you've already finished the rest of the sign!

Just checked; thought I had done a photo essay on the technique for my blog, but apparently that never got finished. I'll have to do that.

BEST, most accurate way to cut such a groove is to find a buddy with a CNC router, and have them do it. I am currently hiring a small shop to do my juice grooves, and the expense is much less than my frustration trying to hand route a perfect groove.


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## bcfunburst (Jan 14, 2012)

I always do this task just like Henry has suggested. There is far less chance to mess up again, IF you use a template attached to your sign with 2 sided tape. Hope you will share your end results with all of us.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> I vote for dropping the piece on the bit and riding the fence...
> 
> It may just be me but I wouldn't want to mess with making a perfect template in order to ride a bushing or bearing against effectively doing what you already did with the edge guide.
> 
> If you were making a bunch the same size then I would prefer making a template...just my 1 1/2 cents...


and what happens if you rotate off of axis while yur cutting...
you looking to be sent to the house for suggesting something like that...

making exact templates or exact stepped down templates is cake and pie...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> and what happens if you rotate off of axis while yur cutting...
> you looking to be sent to the house for suggesting something like that...
> 
> making exact templates or exact stepped down templates is cake and pie...


Then I guess I better warn my router and table not to let me do that anymore...

Or maybe you're saying "in order to do it that way you have to be very careful of a couple of things"...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I say just run a roundover around the edge to take the sharpness off of it and finish it!!!!

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Then I guess I better warn my router and table not to let me do that anymore...
> 
> Or maybe you're saying "in order to do it that way you have to be very careful of a couple of things"...


so what was your secret to keep everything kopestetic...


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> I say just run a roundover around the edge to take the sharpness off of it and finish it!!!!
> 
> HJ


John I have been thinking the same thing. It's just not worth the trouble for a sign that is going to my grandson. Most likely he would not see it he would just see the emblem of his soccer team.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

good plan....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

+1 for the simple version. The groove is way more complicated and the risk level is much higher.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> so what was your secret to keep everything kopestetic...


No secret...same care needs to be given to an elliptical shape as a circular. The problem is not the routing...it is keeping the center of the oval perpendicular to the cutter. With a circular shape one can add a perpendicular fence to keep it in check. Can't do that with elliptical so I attach a 12 inch clamp to the fence directly over the cutter. I also attach a piece of white tape on the back of the piece in the center. The white tape and the clamp's edge gives me a "sight" which helps me keep the cutter perpendicular to the center. I look straight down over the clamp's edge to keep the center on axis and "feel" my way through the cutting. The fence needs to be as close to zero clearance to the bit so the piece doesn't "fall in".

My daughter likes oval cutting boards...I don't make them but she buys the big square ones and then I cut them to shape. I've done about a half dozen this way...all different sizes...and I just figured it would take me longer to make a template than it did to deal with the centering problem.

Hope this made sense...thanks for asking...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

still don't see it...
but I'm trying...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> still don't see it...
> but I'm trying...


Sorry for the crude drawing...best I could do under the circumstances (needed to look like work LOL)...

Page 1...piece against the fence widest radius against the fence...
Page 2...transition made to narrowest against the fence...

The tape is held under the clamp edge for visual alignment...(think crosshairs)...yeah, that's it...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

got it...
still seems like a way to make a fine line irregular...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> got it...
> still seems like a way to make a fine line irregular...


...take a few short breaths, then take a deep one, let half of it out, gently but firmly squeeze in one fluid motion...

Yeah...no distractions during this operation... LOL


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

In order to maintain an identical edge distance, the fence must stay tangent to the ellipse at the contact point. As you can see from the first video, the perpendicular to the tangent does not pass through the "center" of the ellipse.

I still believe a female template (only because it may be more difficult to keep the bushing consistently tight against an outside surface as compared to an inside one) and guide bushing is the way to assure a line parallel to the ellipse - maybe not the easiest (quickest) but the most positive way (lacking a CNC of course).

I personally like an ellipse for a sign as more pleasing than a simple circle - for somebody making signs, it would be easy to standardize on a couple of sizes and spend the time making the tooling. 

I don't have access to a CNC tooling program to check it out, but had an idea that an edge guide made up of something like two skateboard wheels side-by-side that almost touch on their OD's, and with the OD's riding on the outside of the ellipse could work to give the required groove, particularly if the ellipse wasn't extreme (elongated) but had more rounded ends like the OP's - although it would take a steady hand to keep moving around the part while keeping the wheels in contact.

Just a thought


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

hawkeye10 said:


> I want to route a V groove 1/2" from the edge around this oval. I want to do it the safest [as in no goofs] way. This is my third time to make this sign and I am tired of it. On one of my mess up's I used double stick tape to attach a block of wood to the routers base and use that as a fence. I could do it but it's risky. The other way is use the router table and drop the sign on top of the bit and let the sign ride the fence. So far this seems the best way. I am just looking for more and better ideas.


Don. I would consider replacing the straight fence on a guide fence with 2 wheels located under each rod to guide the router bit 1/2" from the edge. Or if you are more comfortable with a router table you could use 2 wheels mounted on the fence so they spin parallel with the table. You could use wheels like are used on screen doors as rollers. I would test on a elliptical scrap to see if it works. I would also use a v-bit.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

This is basically what I was suggesting, except that the wheels would be mounted on the router edge guide - I've never been a fan of dropping a part onto a spinning router bit. done it a couple of times but never been comfortable with it. I do think that the wheels have to be close together to cancel out, as much as possible, the apparent change in radius of the part - otherwise a V-block that works for a circular part would work.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Don, honestly I hope you went with the suggestion to simply round over the edges because your sign is beautiful as it is. However I got fascinated by using template guides to put the groove you wanted. Here is what I came up with. It involves first making a guide that is slightly larger than the sign, then use that to make a second guide that is a groove for a template guide bushing that is centered 1/2 inch inside the edge of your sign, cut that groove a little more than half way around, then flip the guide. In pictures: 
(See waht hapens when I can't sleep?!


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

mftha said:


> Don, honestly I hope you went with the suggestion to simply round over the edges because your sign is beautiful as it is. However I got fascinated by using template guides to put the groove you wanted. Here is what I came up with. It involves first making a guide that is slightly larger than the sign, then use that to make a second guide that is a groove for a template guide bushing that is centered 1/2 inch inside the edge of your sign, cut that groove a little more than half way around, then flip the guide. In pictures:
> (See waht hapens when I can't sleep?!


Great post Tom and I appreciate the trouble you went to. I also know about loosing sleep. I think you and I are not the only ones. I am going to take the simple route but I haven't done anything yet.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I say just run a roundover around the edge to take the sharpness off of it and finish it!!!!
> 
> HJ


 @honestjohn I'm with you on this. Getting that groove dead on is going to be tough, the slightest slipup and it's firewood. Whichever method you choose (edge guide or fence) I'd sand the outer rim smooth as a baby's behind to reduce chances of something catching the guide or fence and jerking the piece.

If it messes up again, I suggest you cut the shape THEN the groove BEFORE you carve the rest out.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> @honestjohn I'm with you on this. Getting that groove dead on is going to be tough, the slightest slipup and it's firewood. Whichever method you choose (edge guide or fence) I'd sand the outer rim smooth as a baby's behind to reduce chances of something catching the guide or fence and jerking the piece.
> 
> If it messes up again, I suggest you cut the shape THEN the groove BEFORE you carve the rest out.


given..


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