# JIGS CAN MAKE ROUTING SAFER!! (lesson learned for a newbie)



## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

Hello Forum!! First post here. I've been lingering around for some time now, but now decided to start posting.

First, a bit of kudos to the forum: Thanks to the vast knowledge of routing here, I was able to construct my own router table and begin a side business making a specific type of reproduction pistol grip for the old Swedish Mauser rifles. It provides me with "shop money" as well. It says a lot that I gained all my help by just searching thru your posts and reading. I didn't have to ask one question!!!

Next, some background: Well, going back to last January (2010), I wanted to start making these grips. I quickly got up and running and had my table built by the end of the month. Now, being a newbie to table routing, I should have taken precautions and gone slower, but I didn't. One of my routing tasks is to put a 1/2" round over on four sides of the grip (see first pic below). I had to do this free handed and, as you can see, the part is quite small. Suffice it to say, I ended up running my middle, ring and pinky fingers of my right hand through the bit (I'll spare you the details) but, boy, did it smart. I had surgery and wore a big bandage for 1 month then another one for 2 months. I came away with near full capability of my hand and a new-found respect for the router!!!

Finally, lessons learned: So, what can I say but JIGS CAN MAKE ROUTING SAFER!! Like an epiphany, on my 2 hour ambulance ride to Columbus (I live in the sticks), I realized how wrong it was to free hand route such a small piece and I thought up a jig to keep my hands faaaar away from the bit (see first picture in the back ground).

I hope this experience of mine can shed some light onto fellow Newbies to table routing and prevent them from repeating it.

Grips ROUGH cut (notice my jig in the back ground):









First grip Finally finished (Right) compared to original (Left):









FINAL Product:









INSTALLED on an 1899 Swedish m/96 Mauser:


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Very nice Tim! You'll soon be knocking them out for Brownells!

Can we please see more of the jig? Perhaps shots of it in use?

Cheers

Peter


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks Peter,
Ha, Brownells!! Lord knows they have enough of my money....maybe I should!! :laugh: 

I'll see what I can do about pictures for you this weekend.

Tim


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

You certainly learn fast Tim, albeit the hard way. Most impressive, I too would like to see shots of the jig in action.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tim

I'm Not a big fan of guns, that only do one job "kill", but you did a real nice job on the grips, I would also like to see more of the jig(s) at work 

======


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## gcodom (Nov 28, 2010)

Tim,
It appears your knowledge of gun use is equivalent to my knowledge of wood working. Guns do far more than kill.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gary

Now you got me going ,,,what can guns do other than kill something. ? I think if they melt down all the guns on both sides the wars would almost stop around the world/>>>>>..yep I'm from the 60's..hahahahahahah.. we can all dream  maybe melt them all down and turn them into hand planes..

I should say I'm not down on Guns it's that little thing that comes out of one end of them.. 

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gcodom said:


> Tim,
> It appears your knowledge of gun use is equivalent to my knowledge of wood working. Guns do far more than kill.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Hi Tim. Nice job on the jig, proving once again that necessity is truly the mother of invention.  Glad the lesson didn't cost you anymore than some skin and recovery time.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Bob:

How about using a gun to prop a door or window open? Or maybe banging some critter over the head?

Cassandra
Devil's Advocate


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

hahahahahaha

I don't want to high jack the post by going off the point of his post to far but C.H. once said " out of my cold dead hands" I don't think that part of the constitution is now needed for today world..or should be , I once read about how many guns we have by "We The People ' have, WOW..

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Cassandra said:


> Hi Bob:
> 
> How about using a gun to prop a door or window open? Or maybe banging some critter over the head?
> 
> ...


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## The Warthog (Nov 29, 2010)

I have been thinking of buying a pistol or two in my retirement, just because I used to be very good at shooting targets. The idea of making wooden parts for them just leaves me drooling!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Glad to hear your recovery was 100%. Not many who challenge a router bit with flesh can say the same. 
The spouse keeps asking for a BB gun to put the run on the abundance of squirrels we seem to have in our yard. The airsoft gun that shoots little plastic pellets (and not very straight or hard) was as far as I would go. I have a soft spot for all animals, and I dislike guns as well.


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

The Warthog said:


> I have been thinking of buying a pistol or two in my retirement, just because I used to be very good at shooting targets. The idea of making wooden parts for them just leaves me drooling!


I know what you mean, Roger. I prefer wood on my firearms whenever possible. Here is a set of white oak grips I made for a friend's wife. It's her concealed carry firearm.



















Tim


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

CanuckGal said:


> Glad to hear your recovery was 100%. Not many who challenge a router bit with flesh can say the same.
> The spouse keeps asking for *a BB gun to put the run on the abundance of squirrels we seem to have in our yard*. The airsoft gun that shoots little plastic pellets (and not very straight or hard) was as far as I would go. I have a soft spot for all animals, and I dislike guns as well.


Have you considered a pet hawk or a pet fox?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

I use a wire box trap,,,I took 6 of them to the park in the back of the truck this year..plus one raccoon  in my own shop made wire trap box,big sucker too...

Little red paint on the tail to let me know if they are the same ones coming back ..none so far.. 

====


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

As promised, the jig in action. Sorry for the blurry spots. My sons decided to "play" with the camera yesterday and one of their greasy fingers smudged the lens!!! I didn't have a blank grip to use, so I dug through my scraps and found one I had messed up on.

Pictures 1 and 2 show routing of one side; Pictures 3 and 4 the other. As you all probably know, all routing is done left to right as pictured. I don't use a starter pin, instead I start the barring on the sacrificial part of the jig. It takes about 5 passes each side to get it completely routed. I raise the bit about 1/8" each pass. Picture 5 shows how I take apart the jig to flip it around to route the other side of the grip. I have to do this because the grip is not concentric.

Picture 1:









Picture 2:









Picture 3:









Picture 4:









Picture 5:









Thank you all for your kind words and support. This is truly a good forum!!!

Tim

ps, ref: firearms (what are they good for?), They are good for some things...

Like putting a smile on a son's face during a vintage rifle shoot with Papa:









Or a smile on your Mother's face when you get a Mother-Son day at the range:









Those are only two of the millions of other reasons I find firearms useful.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tim

Thanks,,Very nice jig, well done 

=====


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## gcodom (Nov 28, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> hahahahahaha
> 
> ...


"On every question of construction (of the Constitution) let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, June 12, 1823, The Complete Jefferson, p. 322) 

Well I have not been around long to post URLs. But if you are interested in preserving the constitutionality of our United States government please check the link of www. congressionalcompass . org


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

This a partial quote from a "few good men" You will find many ex miltary people share this belief as do i about gun/law and order critics.no offence intended. just fodder for thought about what guns in the right hands do to protect those who have none... semper fi 

You curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That death, while tragic, probably saves lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Tim
> 
> Thanks,,Very nice jig, well done
> 
> =====


Thanks for the kind words, BJ!!

Tim


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

The jig is good in my opinion.
A gun in the hand of a small boy, not so good.
An automatic weapon in the hands of a grandmother, even worse.
Each to their own I guess.
Feel free to chastise my families non use of guns.

This is an open call to all users and administrators of this forum, I'd really prefer it if this forum wasn't used to promote the use of guns as a hobby.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm on several groups, all of which have members from all over the world. Most of the non US members in all of them hold very different political views on a range of issues to some of the American members. Consequently we focus on the things we have in common, not those which divide.

Let's focus on woodworking. 

Cheers

Peter


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Woodworking here please*



gav said:


> The jig is good in my opinion.
> A gun in the hand of a small boy, not so good.
> An automatic weapon in the hands of a grandmother, even worse.
> Each to their own I guess.
> ...


Is there a router issue in here. Is there a woodworking question here. The hobby here is woodworking primarily with a router.

Find other forums to debate other subjects.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

If someone else can express their love of guns here, I see no reason why I can't express my dislike of guns. I wasn't after a debate, but now it seems that you are sourdough. You're obviously a gun lover as I noticed yesterday that you managed to turn a thread about hand planes into one about shotguns.

If I was to carve a pipe out of wood, do you think it's appropriate that I show a picture of my son smoking it ?

My son likes to see what I'm doing on this site sometimes and I don't think it's a good thing for him to see other children using guns. If I wanted him to see that, I'd be looking at gun sites and not woodworking sites.

and that's it from me


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Jigs*



gav said:


> If someone else can express their love of guns here, I see no reason why I can't express my dislike of guns. I wasn't after a debate, but now it seems that you are sourdough. You're obviously a gun lover as I noticed yesterday that you managed to turn a thread about hand planes into one about shotguns.
> 
> If I was to carve a pipe out of wood, do you think it's appropriate that I show a picture of my son smoking it ?
> 
> ...


By golly ya got me there. I forgot about that post. Probably because I just admire well built tools and the planes in question rank right up there with fine Shotguns, great sports cars, keenly honed custom made knives and artfully carved walking sticks and canes. All tools.
I enjoy using and admiring them all. When the occasion arises I may from time to time allude to them.


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## gcodom (Nov 28, 2010)

*Be careful what you say*

I find it most amusing that those who are complaining that this thread has turned to gun talk started it with the question from BOBJ3 about what guns where good for other than killing. I agree that should never have enter into the fray. But the question was asked, answered and disputed. The dissenters where responsible for the thread getting derailed. So, let us get over it and get back to the talk of wood working. Though I am an owner and user of firearms, I do agree that it is somewhat disruptive of a good thread on wood working. That is the way I see it anyway.


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## Fred K (Dec 22, 2010)

Thanks Tim for the advise. I am just getting started with a router and need to know how to keep my fingers out of the blade. I have had experience putting my fingers across a set of dado blades on a table saw. Like you the fingers survived the event and I did learn a lesson about a table saw.

Would also like to see pictures of your router table when you get a chance to post.

Thanks again
Fred


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## lerrob (Nov 9, 2010)

guns are very dangerous in children's hands!


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Tim, What a valuable thread you started!! It is very fortunate that you suffered "only" superficial injuries. I suffered an injury that turned out to be only superficial but 3mm (1/8 inch) and the joint would have been damaged if not functionally destroyed. My injury happened while I was trying to make a jig, of all things, and was the result of one instant of not thinking. After a similar period of bandaging (no surgery; there was nothing left to operate on) I came out with an altered fingerprint and a stiff joint. I was lucky, as you were. Routers are dangerous and need to be treated with great respect. 

Your photos of the jig you built and how you used it are excellent and very informatative.

As for much of the rest of this thread, how easily we can get off track. Many of these posts have come from highly respected and experienced members of the forum. I personally have very strong opinions on the subject of guns but I will not express them here. I do not even know if this discussion of guns would be allowed in the lobby. The U. S. is one of only a few countries (actually the only one I know of) in which people who are not military or public safety officers can carry guns. As a teenager I did try target shooting myself but, well there are other things I do well. This discussion of guns etc. really needs to be moved and not distract from the very important point with which this thread was started.


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## gcodom (Nov 28, 2010)

"Tom
Civil controversy is the engine that drives progress and growth of understanding; mistakes can be a stepping stone to expertise
DO Something, DO ANYTHING to Stop Global Warming"

OK, so maybe we have dispatched with the gun talk. Must you introduce the bogus global warming argument? Please let us stay on track. I come to this forum to hear of wood working, the rest can be found on some other forum. I have my opinions but I would rather learn about wood working here, than debating on other subjects. Thank you for your indulgence with my remarks.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Let us not allow another distracting post to be the Last Word in this thread. This topic is very important for many reasons, safety being the most important.

Tim, how does your jig hold the workpiece?


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Tim, 

How do you do the roundovers so that they do not have a cross section like the below drawing? I line up the bearing with a fence, but you cannot use a fence, and your pictures clearly show a roundover and not a bullnose bit.

Great thanks.


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## Rick in Pittsburgh (Jun 23, 2009)

lerrob said:


> guns are very dangerous in children's hands!


Only if the child was not properly trained.

To quote something an Army Man once told me:

There are 3 types of people in this world

The Sheep - those who think nothing bad is going to happen and the world is a safe place. Who do nothing to protect themselves.

The Wolves - Those who prey on the sheep

The Sheep Dog - Those who will not allow themselves to be attacked by the Wolves and end up protecting the Sheep.

If you want to live in peace you HAVE to fight for it! Otherwise the corrupt will take over. "Si vis pacem, para bellum"


GOD BLESS OUR MILITARY!


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

Enough about the discussion on guns and whether or not they are good or bad. The topic is the jig used and the woodworking and craftsmanship involved.


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

mftha said:


> ...Tim, how does your jig hold the workpiece?


Hi Tom,
The piece is held in the jig at three points. For the bottom of the grip, I have a sharp pin in the jig holding it (refer to the red arrow in PIC 1). It doesn't show in the final grip because that part is cut off.

PIC 1









As for the top of the grip, it is held in place by the over hanging wood (again, refer to read arrow of PIC 2).

PIC 2











mftha said:


> How do you do the roundovers so that they do not have a cross section like the below drawing?...


First of all, I don't take the entire round over in one pass, as you probably know. I incrementally raise the bit about 1/8" at a time (very easy to do from underneath with the triton router). I stop when the bearing is in the center of the grip (refer to green dash line of pic 2). That way, there is no overhang effect. Believe me, I learned this from experience on a couple of really nice pieces of wood. :'(

Hope that helps and is not too confusing the way I explained it.

Tim


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## tater4091 (Jan 16, 2011)

*Thanks for the advice*

Did't quite get to the eating of the fingers part but came real close a couple of times with a few whews that was close working on an invention that has some small sections that had to have a 3/8 inch by 3/8 grove on the edge of 3/4x1/2x6 and8 inch pieces. I will be making a few jigs to make sure i dont get my fingers eatin. thanks for story sorry for the fingers but definately makes me want to make jigs


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## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

As we are concerned with SAFETY, maybe this could be a good project to produce making jigs and templates with the aid of the template guides.


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## gcodom (Nov 28, 2010)

Though I doubt I will be working with a piece much like the one you are making, the principal behind the jig and what you can do with it and most important the element of safety that it offers has given me great inspiration in avoiding accidents. I am pretty well spooked about getting injured and have just avoided some tasks rather than taking the risk. The jig you have displayed offers me encouragement as to how to approach those scary up close tasks. Thanks for the insight.


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## sanart (Oct 18, 2009)

Sorry to have read about your hand Tim. I guess as we all get more and more familiar with tools we under-estimate just how dangerous they are. Routers especially so, that little super sharp metal bit at 10,000 to 25,000 RPM. Oh Mama, a lot of damage can be done in a fraction of a second. As a router newbie, I appreciate being made aware of the danger.
Thanks for your post, and showing that a concept carried through can be the basis of a money making enterprise.
Be safe.

Art.


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

Thanks for all the kind words, guys. This forum is tops for good folks!! 

Art, I was a little too "John Wayne like" when I first started this project. In retrospect, it's amazing how the accident turned my thinking around and made myself more aware of safety concerns. If there is one point I hope to make with this post, it is to THINK SAFETY all the time. 

As you said, it did literally only take a split second for me to decide to chance it and a split second for the whole thing to be over. I sat there staring at my injury and made a few "colorful remarks". Then I wrapped it with my shirt, climbed out of the basement and called for my wife to dial 911. I ruined a perfectly good white T-shirt, mind you!!! :laugh:

Regards,
Tim


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## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

*Safer method of achieving the same product*

Tim
There is a safer method of producing your project. The router table is not always the safest method of produceing a great number of projects.
From one of the pics presented I observed a piece of metal with two holes in it also the surfaced was shaped also. There was also a bolt shown , was this to connect to the rifle? if so then this is where you should have made your fixture as it ws goint to be covered up.
Also making a Jig with a template the parts could have been achieved with greater safety awareness. I have produced smaller items using the alternative method


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## metzgeri (Feb 1, 2010)

Nna,
Any suggestions on making this project safer are encouraged. Other than the hand rasp, I can't think of an alternative. If you have a suggestion, please let me know.

The metal bracket is to hold the grip to the stock. The bolt shown, replaces the rear action screw and tightens the front of the bracket. The sling swivel screw from the stock tightens the rear of the bracket down.

The design of where the grip is and how the bracket is shaped and the placement of the screws are all pretty much set in stone. This is a replica of a previously manufacturered grip that Swedish target shooters used on their rifles that has since been discontinued. Swedish mauser target shooters and collectors are pretty insistant on "as close to the original" as possible. We're a picky bunch!! :happy:

Regards,
Tim


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

metzgeri said:


> Thanks for all the kind words, guys. This forum is tops for good folks!!
> 
> Art, I was a little too "John Wayne like" when I first started this project. In retrospect, it's amazing how the accident turned my thinking around and made myself more aware of safety concerns. If there is one point I hope to make with this post, it is to THINK SAFETY all the time.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate what you are saying. I have only had one close call over 40 years of woodworking. However, in my 25 years of logging in the British Columbia interior, I was injured several times with several weeks off work each time. In every case, I was doing something that I knew I shouldn't have. I call it the Superman syndrome. Able to leap tall buildings, stop a speeding bullet...
If it seems like a bad idea, it's a bad idea. Step back and thick of a better way. You can only tempt fate so many times before it bites you.


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## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

metzgeri said:


> Nna,
> Any suggestions on making this project safer are encouraged. Other than the hand rasp, I can't think of an alternative. If you have a suggestion, please let me know.
> 
> The metal bracket is to hold the grip to the stock. The bolt shown, replaces the rear action screw and tightens the front of the bracket. The sling swivel screw from the stock tightens the rear of the bracket down.
> ...


Post the over all dimensios and angle and I will be able to assist


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I really appreciate what you are saying. I have only had one close call over 40 years of woodworking. However, in my 25 years of logging in the British Columbia interior, I was injured several times with several weeks off work each time. In every case, I was doing something that I knew I shouldn't have. I call it the Superman syndrome. Able to leap tall buildings, stop a speeding bullet...
> If it seems like a bad idea, it's a bad idea. Step back and thick of a better way. You can only tempt fate so many times before it bites you.


Something I've observed in myself, and I encourage all here to see if it's true for them too, is that I'm most likely to do something stupid as I'm finishing up a session in the shop and am getting impatient or tired.

Lately I've been working to get in tune with my energy / exhaustion level and I immediately stop work if I realize I've gotten away with doing something that doesn't meet full safety standards, whether or not it gets all the way to "something stupid". Then I go think about how/why I got into that situation and how to avoid it in the future. Kind of a self-punishment but effective in a safe way!

Maybe I'm the only one who'd benefit from this but I thought I'd share my approach. After reading the injury / closs call stories here I'm trying to build my own "safety program". I've got all 10 digits and no significant scars. I'd like to keep it that way.


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