# Milwaukee 5616-24 or Bosch 1617EVSPK?



## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

Hello all, first post here on the forums and I'm glad to be around folks from whom I can learn. I'm not exactly a beginner to woodworking, but I am a complete novice when it come to *fine* woodworking. That said, I am in the market for a solid router and a reasonably accurate table.

I need mobility, so I don't plan to build a table--instead, I want to buy one off the shelf that is accurate enough for hobby work that I can be proud to claim, with all of the features that I don't yet know I want.  It doesn't need to fold, but I need to be able to move and store it without too much hassle.

I've pretty much narrowed down my router choices to what I have found at Lowe's and Home Depot, which are the Milwaukee 5616-24 and the Bosch 1617EVSPK. The table is another can of worms altogether after reading the reviews of the ones I was considering. I don't mind spending $200+ on the router, but I'd love to keep it under $200 for the table, much less if at all possible. That said, I do need a decent RT that can be properly set up and stay that way.

Alright fellas, have at it!

-Stan


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Stan, nothing against Milwaukee but I prefer Bosch. Average price for the 1617EVSPK is $209. Amazon is selling the new upgraded version MRC23EVSK for $289 with free shipping. Think of this as a 1617 on steroids; I am very happy with both of mine. My pair of 1617's have been trouble free for over 11 years now. Both models are great choices. The cost of the router is the small investment in routing. Bits are the expensive part.

I recently reviewed the Skil RAS800 portable table and if you will be transporting the table a lot then it is a decent choice. It has one fall back; it does not accept guide bushings. This table is $139 at my local Lowes and Amazon is selling it for $99.

The Bosch RA1171 is easy to work with but again does not accept guide bushings. You may find this table at Sears wearing the Craftsman name for a bit less money.

My first choice is still the Grizzly T10432. This is a full sized table but light weight and easy to move. It does accept guide bushings, has dust collection and the price of $130 plus shipping still beats all other deals.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks Mike for your reply. I am trying to limit myself to shopping Lowe's and Home Depot for a couple reasons one of which being the ease of return should I wind up with something I don't like. HD does carry the MRC23EVSK, and I wouldn't mind springing for it if I could justify the added cost by making use of the upgraded features. BTW, what exactly is upgraded over the 1617EVSPK? What are guide bushings used for and since I don't know the answer to that question, can I live without them?

The Skil RAS900 is definitely on my list, but I was looking more closely at the Kreg PRS2000 or the Bosch RA1171 or RA1181. In short, I was hoping that the Bosch 1617EVSPK and either of those tables would suffice for general purpose mortising, round overs, and molding work with pine, oak, maple, cherry, and other common woods as well as laminates and MDF on occasion.

Mike, can you directly compare:

Bosch MRC23EVSK vs 1617EVSPK
Bosch Bosch RA1171 vs RA1181 vs Kreg PRS2000

Mobility is a concern, yes, but not nearly as important as the most common concerns like height adjustment, bit swapping, table flatness, etc.


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

I would go with the Kreg table over the skil or the Bosch at Lowe's also check Rockler they have tops You can buy and the just build a cabinet and put casters on for ease of movement, there is also some one here on the forum that sells a nice looking table with cabinet that I would give a very good look at.... as for the router I have had 2 Craftsman and now have 2 Porter Cable's but am thinking of buying a Bosch just like the way it feels and solid build the older Porter Cables are still going strong but some of the recent Porter Cable tools I have used just feel like they are being made cheaper .... Spoke with a Milwaukee rep Saturday for about 1/2 hour and he says that Milwaukee has sank a lot of money in research the last 2 years to try and become the biggest and best tool maker especially in the cordless tools, but did admit that for the money Bosch has been really cutting into that part of the market they once pretty much controlled so maybe the cordless tools will get better in the future .... I hope this kind of helps


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## Bill Huber (Sep 7, 2009)

The Bosch 1617 has an adapter for it that will take standard Porter Cable bushings. Bosch has there own bushing but I never liked them and when with the adapter and some good PC bushings.
I have never used the bushings in the table but I have used them a lot handheld.

Take a look at this to links for info on bushing.

woodsmith.com/magazine/extras/158/using-router-guide-bushings/]Online Extras - Woodsmith Magazine

newwoodworker.com/guidebush.html]Using Guide Buschings - How To Use A Router - NewWoodworker.com


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bill, you should spend some more time reading threads on the forums. We offer a great deal more information on working with guide bushings than anywhere else.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Stan, please read through this thread where I have explained the accessories used with the 1617: http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/35050-bosch-1617evspk-1617evstb.html#post279757

Differences: the MRC23EVSK has a lot of important upgrades. More powerful motor, 2.3 hp. Always on LED work lights; a full 3" plunge depth, that is the most of any router; after lock fine height adjustment on the plunge base; Safety release levers on both bases to prevent the motor from dropping out when table mounted and the main locking lever is released; adjustable sub base plates for perfect centering; a handle mounted trigger switch with no wire to get in the way... the connection between the motor and bases is a power bus strip; swivel power cord connection to prevent wind up... is that enough good reasons to justify an additional $80?

Features between the three tables listed are similar, none have the ability to use guide bushings when you buy them. I did not include the Kreg because you said you wanted to stay under $200; it is a very nice little table. The RA 1171 is the best table Bosch offers and less money than the RA1181. Having owned one of these tables with the Craftsman name on it the only improvements needed is to leave the door off and adapt it for guide bushing use. As an alternative you might build a ski jig for use with guide bushings; I would not hammer this point home if it was not an important one.

Some final considerations: if you are working on a tight budget there is nothing wrong with grabbing a 1617, they are great little routers. If you are like most of us you will end up with more routers anyways. Guide bushings and templates offer a safer way to work with your router. Read the sticky threads in the Guide Bushings section and you will begin to understand why.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Stan.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and for the links. I will certainly read up on that information. I do want to say that while I am on a budget, I don't want to short cut either of these purchases and create the need to make another purchase to make up for features I could have gotten the first time around. All within reason, of course.

My needs are and will remain quite simple in comparison to many of you here on the forum. For me, this is a hobby, not a profession, but at the same time I do take pride in my work and I do understand the importance of the right tools. I will use this router on the table 90 percent of the time, and I may eventually start spinning some larger bits, so the MRC23EVSK does make sense.

I want the table I choose to be part of a larger system of sorts, so I can add on jigs and bushings as my techniques advance, so my budget is not rigid but a baseline. A dovetail jig will be one of the first accessories, so having the ability to incorporate that as part of a larger system would be great. 

Right now our local Home Depot has the Kreg PRS2000 for $199 and the Bosch RA1171 for $161, so if either of them can grow along with me for awhile that would be the easiest way out. Otherwise, I'd be compelled to try out the Grizzly T10432 that Mike has suggested. Or, I am still open to suggestions for a RT, particularly when it comes to one that is part of a system.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Welcome aboard. I won't shop Home Depot, but like Lowes. Can't give you any guidance on routers, all mine ae el cheapo Craftsman, and they do just what I need, so not going to change anytime soon.

As far as a moveable table, if it was me, I'd make one. I've got a small shop and need to move one thing to use another. My wood lathe, saw, and plane are on shopmade plywood stands. Very steady, and easily moved when need be. My vote is always for making your own table, loads less expensive, and you get want you need, not what someone else thinks you need. .


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## Roloff (Jan 30, 2009)

The Grizzly table is about the same price as the Bosch 1171 once shipping is added. There's a $10 oversize fee too. The landed cost is actually around $156+. Between the two tables, which one would be more versatile or easier to use? Bosch makes great routers but in this instance, due to the inability of the 1171 table to accept guide bushings, I'd say the Grizzly is the better choice. All the basics are covered.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

I've stumbled upon a nearly new Bench Dog 40-001 Pro-Top Contractor table here locally that includes featherboards and other cool accessories. I'm guessing this will be all the table I'll need until the time comes when I build my own.

The literature indicates the Bosch 1617 will fit; is that the same hole pattern as the MRC23EVSK? If so, I think I'll take the plunge and invest in the two of these since I'll use the router and table a great deal with the projects I have in mind.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

OK, just picked up the Bench Dog 40-001, two BD featherboards, WITH a brand spanking new Porter Cable 890 series router already mounted underneath for $250 even. Even though I did have my sights set on the Bosch MRC23EVSK, I am pretty sure this setup will handle most anything I expect to do anytime soon.

I bought this setup from a local contractor who says he just needed it for a single project. He says it was very lightly used--I'm not sure if it was *ever *used. There is hardly a trace of sawdust anywhere ... everything looks brand spanking new, and every single part for both OEM packages are here!

Off to the shop now to find something to turn into kindling! Thanks for all the replies fellows.

-Stan


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## Bill Huber (Sep 7, 2009)

Mike said:


> Bill, you should spend some more time reading threads on the forums. We offer a great deal more information on working with guide bushings than anywhere else.


Maybe you should spend more time researching the routers before you tell someone that the Bosch will not take bushings. You have 2 and if you don't know by now that there is an adapter for them you need to do some more research.


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## Stan Draughon (Oct 2, 2012)

Bill Huber said:


> Maybe you should spend more time researching the routers before you tell someone that the Bosch will not take bushings. You have 2 and if you don't know by now that there is an adapter for them you need to do some more research.


Bill,
I believe Mike was referring to the Bosch RA1171 router table and its inability to accept guide bushings, not a specific router. I wouldn't know, which is why I am here obtaining information from those of you with more experience.

At least for the foreseeable future, the Bench Dog table and the PC 892 will do what I need to do. If I had been forced to purchase a new router, almost certainly I would have chosen the Bosch MRC23EVSK. When my routing needs change, that is the router I'll buy.


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

I have bosch routers and bold bosch 1180 router table. the table I have has an aluminum top with aluminum split fence, and vacuum connector, but I use a bosch dust bag most of the time, because the big rigid vac gets in my way. If I were starting all over, I think I would buy the incra ls-25 system/router table combo number 3. But Incra does not have a table insert for my bosch 1617evs, which has the capability of being elevated from above the table. it seems that with the incra system and bosch routers, one has a choice between drilling your own hole for the above table adjustment, or use another brand router. Since my shop is so small, a leigh dr4 pro might allow me to do all and more, than any router table upgrades


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bill, I know I clearly stated that the Bosch router tables are not set up to use guide bushings, for that matter most small portable tables are not. It sounds like you took my comment to be offensive and that was not the intent... just making you aware that this forum does have more information on guide bushings than anywhere else on the web. As you read through the threads you will find I have posted a great deal of information on guide bushing identification along with the part numbers for all the Bosch guide bushings and adapters.

PS: I have 6 Bosch routers.


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## James Mac (May 26, 2013)

*Bosch Router Hole Pattern*



Mike said:


> Bill, I know I clearly stated that the Bosch router tables are not set up to use guide bushings, for that matter most small portable tables are not. It sounds like you took my comment to be offensive and that was not the intent... just making you aware that this forum does have more information on guide bushings than anywhere else on the web. As you read through the threads you will find I have posted a great deal of information on guide bushing identification along with the part numbers for all the Bosch guide bushings and adapters.
> 
> PS: I have 6 Bosch routers.


Mike,
I am brand new to routing, and this is my first post on these forums. I have never used a router before and have been researching routers and purchased the innovative new Bosch MRC23EVSK. In just playing around with it, it seems to be a quality tool with neat features. I have also purchased all of the accessories etc (edge guide, bushings etc) *** I always said “a fool and his money soon part” and I like to lead by example. :laugh:
ANYWAY….I am looking to get a table and I want a full-featured one that is high quality and yet portable. I don’t want to build one yet and I don’t want to drill holes in the router plate. I want to start off easy, but start off with nice stuff that is portable and I can upgrade later if I really get into it.
I am thinking of purchasing the Bench Dog 40-001 Pro-Top Contractor table and its literature states that the plate is pre-drilled and its hole pattern will accept the Bosch 1617 series, but the literature does not mention the MRC23EVSK. After all of this rambling, my question is …… is the base plate hole pattern identical for the 1617 series and the MRC23EVSK?
I am very interested in that table but I do NOT want to have to drill holes in it to make it fit my router and the lift adjustment hole.
I know that you own both of these routers and I thank you for any help that you can give.

Thanks again,
Jim
Texas


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jim, I have never checked to compare the mounting pattern but I will today. I think they are different and the sub base diameter IS different.


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