# Thoughts: Sommerfeld Tongue and groove for cabinets



## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

I am going to be building my kitchen cabinets in the next month or so. I watched his videos on the system and it looks pretty easy and strong. Might be a bit more than needed for this, could use pocket holes/screws to attach face frames. Just wondering what the thoughts were and if anyone has done it with his system and what the opinions were. Thanks!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The Sommerfeld bits get excellent reviews. I know Desert Rat Tom uses them.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Built 4 sets of kitchen cabs and several other cases with Marc's bit set. It may seem like overkill, but you end up with a whale of a strong box. Highly recommend you follow his video instructions.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I really like using pocket hole screws for assembling face frames. Exact end cuts (90) on the rails and stiles and the frame turns out perfect. Measure carefully because you probably want the face frams to be about 1/8 proud. 
I don't much like pocket hole screws in visible areas for attaching face frames. I find it very difficult to fill in the plugs completely, so it is obvious I've used them. I generally wind up using glue for a stand alone, like a book shelf. But if you have a line of several cabinets, you can hide them by mounting from the concealed side of the cabinet. if you're using ply or mdf, you are likely to use a 1/4 finished piece over the ends, which will conceal those pocket screws.

As to the bits and Sommerfeld's system, I think they are the very best way to go. I noticed that Freud has begun offering matched sets. Sommerfeld has a star shaped gadget called the EasySet, a jig for setting most of their bits that also takes workpiece thickness into account. It costs $30 and is well worth it. They now offer a second version (red) for Freud bits, and now that Freud sets are matched, that should be good, just check the part numbers to make sure what you buy matches the EasySet numbers. You work face down on the table with these kinds of sets. 

I love watching Marc Sommerfeld do his router work. So many years as a cabinet maker really show in his technique. Simple, straightforward.

Freud makes really nice consumer grade bits, but for me, I like the quality of Sommerfeld, also, their packaging of sets is really nice, protective and keeps them all together. Save the YouTube videos to disk (I bought his DVD set for $99) and watch them several times before trying something new. Also write down the sequence he uses to keep on track. 

That's my take.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I own and have use this system to build cabinets love it not only is it strong, but helps square up the unit automatically.


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## blackemmons (Apr 10, 2006)

I have those and other sets by Marc. I really like the self alignment and the quality.............. and the price. JimE


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Marc's idea of using an offset tongue and groove for cabinet making is a great idea. When using his offset bits for making cabinets, along with pocket screws and glue, produces perfectly matched or offset corner joints quickly and easily. When the cabinets are assembled using this system along with glue and pocket screws you rarely need clamps, and you can assemble a complete cabinet without stopping part way and waiting for the glue to dry. But you do need to plan ahead a little to offset the tongues and grooves in the correct direction before you cut them or you may discover that a panel will only fit with the inside face on the outside. Watch his video several times and make a sketch of your cabinet with arrows to show which direction to offset each tongue and groove. After you make a few cabinets with this system, getting the tongues and grooves right becomes easy and you will be able to do it without any advance planning.

Charley


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Small item: Mark the insides of your work pieces with chalk. Easy to mix them up.


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

I am sold on it now. I thought it looked pretty easy and you have all told me that is the case.

I know in his videos he makes the face frames all the same size(width wise) I am looking at putting a ledger board on the wall and using the front adjustable feet for some of the cabinets. Mainly so I can run some plumbing, wiring and duct work. If I remember right he has the bottoms of the cabinets flush with the rails, making for a 1-1/4" "lip" on the bottom rail (toe kick area) Do all of you use 2" wide rails and stiles? I have read a couple books and they were all different in what they did for rails and stiles. I like the idea of them being all the same size for simplistic sake.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@rbecklund I like a thinner width, about 1.5 inch. Seems a little more modern to me. But when you butt two cabinets together, that makes a 3 inch face frame between the two carcuses. Take off an inch for a half inch overlap door and you're back to 2 inches being visible, with one inch showing on the end cabinets. Of course, it you're putting a bead or other decoration on the face frame, you might want it wider. I like Mission style a lot, very simple.

Check out Sommerfeld's door-making, matched bit sets, which are really terrific. I particularly like his glass door set. To me, glass front cabinets are the ultimate in elegance. Treat yourself to the videos, you inspired me to watch several of them again, which gets the old woodworking appetite going again.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Feeling chatty tonight I guess. When I make face frames, I first measure the actual width of the cabinet opening. Then, using milled pieces, I put two pieces down snug against each other, then take the third piece and lay an end against the two pieces so the third piece is perpendicular. I then measure from the outside of the double piece out the length of the perpendicular piece and mark the desired full width of the face frame. A clean cut on the table saw sled and I have the correct total width of the face frame. Stiles are easily measured, and this method makes certain you will get an accurate sized rail.

One or two pocket hole screws and glue, laid out on a butcher block sheet with a square and, perfecto. Just what you want.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Tom - I've watched quite a few of Sommerfeld's videos on youtube - he's pretty down to earth and I find him easy to listen to.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I think all of Marc's videos are all on Youtube now, so you don't even have to buy them if you don't want to.

Charley


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

CharleyL said:


> I think all of Marc's videos are all on Youtube now, so you don't even have to buy them if you don't want to.
> 
> Charley


I think I'm going to download some of those videos so I can watch while traveling on planes. videos on disk don't use nearly as much battery as DVDs, and I've had a few nice conversations on planes started by someone seeing the videos. I think the DVDs are copy protected, but maybe not.:smile:


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I watched his demos before diving into the cabinet building stuff for our house. It seemed a little intimidating to me. I was worried things wouldn't line up due to something I would probably do wrong.

So, I looked at more videos. And I found the one I liked. Actually, there are five or six videos by Kris Reynolds, custom cabinet builder. I liked his work flow, and his videos were easy to watch. No BS or rambling like some videos that are on You Tube. So, I dove in. Sixty some odd cabinets later, I am still going strong on various projects. Not just kitchen cabinet, but other projects that are still basically just a box with a face frame.






Here are a few of the projects my wife and I have turned out ...

Our Kitchen Remodel

Blake and Joanne's Kitchen Remodel

http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/103106-trudi-archies-rental-duplex.html

Trudi and Archie's Kitchen Cabinets


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm a firm believer that you usually get what ya pay for (doing your homework plays into that) when it comes to Sommerfeld bits, you can't go wrong!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I'm a firm believer that you usually get what ya pay for (doing your homework plays into that) when it comes to Sommerfeld bits, you can't go wrong!


I see it that way too. No disappointment with anything I've bought from them.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

The tongue and groove Bits are also good for joining boards, Mark also has a video on how to make picture frames using the tongue and groove bits for the 45 degree corners.


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

Here is my trial cabinet to hopefully get the kinks out of my system. I built the back of this different, my kitchen cabinet bases will have backs. I will be also doing my own countertops so I did that also. Kind of a expensive cabinet for my workshop but it will be nice when I get the drawers made!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Remember that the key to the Sommerfeld matched sets is dropping the half inch grommet into the collet to establish a known bottom. You also work your pieces face down. Again, do get the $30 Easy Set jig to make setup much easier , it is quite sophisticated, and you can get the red one for Freud bits.. I think I said all this before, but by page 4, some might miss it.


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

Yep i used the easy set jig and used the grommet in the router. Works great! You can change from bit to bit and never have to adjust.

I did have a bit of a problem that I need to figure out yet. When fitting my side panels and mid panels the panel would be flush to the rail on the bottom but on top it was in a bit and not flush. Before I start my other cabinets I need to figure this out.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

rbecklund said:


> Yep i used the easy set jig and used the grommet in the router. Works great! You can change from bit to bit and never have to adjust.
> 
> I did have a bit of a problem that I need to figure out yet. When fitting my side panels and mid panels the panel would be flush to the rail on the bottom but on top it was in a bit and not flush. Before I start my other cabinets I need to figure this out.


Panel may be a little warped, in which case the depth of the groove will be about he same all the way across. 

Or your fance may have slipped, in which case the depth of the groove will vary from one end to the other.

Is the top rail warped at all when you hold a straight edge to it. I've noticed that if I let a rail or style sit for a few days after milling, that they can warp a bit.


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

I bought the Sommerfeld featherboards and did a test cut last night. I think it was coming away from the table when routing the style and that made the panel not flush. Seemed to work fine last night with my test pieces.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I like the Sommerfeld offset tongue and groove set and Mark's way of using them because they are also compatible with pocket screws and for the ability to have flush or offset pieces by just flipping pieces over. I hate the appearance of pocket screw holes, but love how fast I can assemble cabinets using the two systems together to rapidly glue and assemble cabinets without needing many clamps. I could do it without using any clamps at all, but I need a few because I won't use the pocket screw system anywhere except where the finished cabinet assembly will hide the holes from view. I've been building cabinets using his bits for years, His products and training DVDs are great.

Charley


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

I was impressed with the bit set, so I bought the Shaker set, and the 22.5 deg lock miter. The Shaker set is awesome and cuts great. The 22.5 deg lock miter does not match like the other bits do. I will have to raise the 2nd bit to get it to work, but it cuts very nice. I might try throwing a shim under it so I don't have to adjust the height. I have used feather boards in the past (home made style) but never appreciated them. I will be buying another Sommerfeld featherboard, they are awesome! But saying that it is the only manufactured ones that I have ever bought.


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