# Can't find this bit



## Kerber (Jul 30, 2021)

I have had this house old 1830 home in Boston since 2012 and i have never been able to find a cutter or a bit for these old moldings. I looked everywhere. Closest i ever got is this one cutter. Can anyone point me in right direction? Any help would be appreciated.


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

I think the only way you can get that profile, is with a planer/moulder. Those beads in the profile, can only be done by a blade spinning parallel with the board. like this. (Sorry, not a good artist, ok, not an artist at all).










The machine would be something like this.









13" Planer/Moulder at Grizzly.com


<h1>Grizzly G1037Z 13" Planer/Moulder</h1> <h2>Get two machines in one with this combination planer/moulder! </h2> <p>If you make your own moulding and casings, or would like to, the G1037Z 13” Planer / Moulder will save you valuable shop space, time and money. <p>Use it to plane your stock to...




www.grizzly.com





Then you might need to have a custom profile made at a place like this.







Custom Profiled Planer, Moulder, and Shaper Knives


We make custom profiled knives for moulders, planers, and shapers. We have very fast 1-2 day turn around times for our profiled knives.



planerknives-n-blades.com


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

The corner pieces were done with a router, and a different profile.


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## Kerber (Jul 30, 2021)

Superburban said:


> The corner pieces were done with a router, and a different profile.


Thank you for your help. i was wondering the same because of those beads never considered moulder. I am engineer but novice at routing. I could have probably done it by router but it would have taken forever  (many runs). But this is great info and i was wondering what tool would have been most practical.

It is interesting that rosettes are same shape..


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

Ok, I see they do look the same. I would not be surprised if a local lumber shop back in the day made them in house. Back when I lived in Pa, many of the houses in the same are had the same molding, which was made locally by a shop that was around until the late 80's. They still had machines that were originally line shaft driven. Was sad to see all the machines go so cheap at the auction, but it was all too big for my use.


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## Kerber (Jul 30, 2021)

Yeah i assume that might have happened here too... Most of the home has these casings. At least know i can narrow it down to moulding knifes. Went to similar auction, equipment was massive of no use on small scale.

Thanks for pointing out moulder, found already one knife close but still not it. Width seems to be correct 4.5". Still a lot more digging, hope i can find it somewhere


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

You have a couple of choices. One, find someone to make a bit for you that you can use in a router table $$$. Two, have someone with a shaper make them for you $$$$. Three, find a replacement, same size, different parttern and replace all of them at once $$. Four would be to take one that was in good condition and use it to make a mold and have them formed from some appropriate material $. 

If you are doing a full restoration and can afford it, or are doing it for a fee and want everything absolutely authentic, then option two is your answer. But if you are doing your own dwelling and money is no object, then options three and four will do the trick. If you are doing your own place and money IS an object, then for me, the answer is three. 

Uniformity would have to be uber important to go to all that trouble. I'd probably pull off enough of the old ones to finish up the most public of rooms, or use one to make a mold and form them from plastic wood, especially if they will be painted.


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## Kerber (Jul 30, 2021)

I did check one place in Boston, person told me it would be $150 per 8 foot to shape it. I thought it was little too much and not worth it. I own the home, trying to preserve as much as I can on this house mostly because I appreciate the old work. It still has its original flooring. i Will go through all this hassle and most likely who ever inherits it will just take it down anyways… 😔


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi @Kerber welcome to the forum. I would tend to agree those profiles may have been made with a shaper.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Don't know what's available these days but you may be able to make those in 3 parts: A regular board and 2 mouldings, something like these maybe. (if you plan on painting them)


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

I think you may have a solution TenGees.

Break it into 3 pieces, the two outer being the same, and the center is a plain board cut to the right dimensions. Now look at the two outer and rotate the pic, and it looks like it might be possible to make it on a router table, just need to find the right bit.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

I was thinking this way with possibly ready-made mouldings but you may have a point.


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

Even that could be done with a router table. Just a matter of finding the right bit. I guess it comes down to how far those inner beads come out from the base.

Now you guys have me looking through all my old house pics, looking at the molding.


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## Kerber (Jul 30, 2021)

Yeah, i thought about that.... those beads are the pain. Hard to find a bit with a bead... Or maybe i could just put a "bead strip" on both side and find a rosette to make a profile without a bead. still 3 parts but would need some cleaning..


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## Superburban (Jul 13, 2021)

If you can find the right bit without the bead, it is likely someone with a tool grinder could grind one in. I'm far from an artist, but look at the black line, if you can find a bit that fits the moulding without the bead, then it would be a simple thing (for someone with a carbide tool grinder for carbide bits, or a regular small grinder or file for HSS bits). to cut out the blue portion.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi Kerber, those beadings may have been made by other means, in three parts as Paul suggested.
Go to the Lee Valley website, look up Stanley #55 router bits (designed to imitate Stanley moulding planes of yore). There is a Grecian Ogee that looks pretty similar, if not you will need a combination, including the Round plus Bead.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

If you cant find you can always have a machine shop make the cutter. Here you see the cutter and holder for a drill press.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

.......


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> If you cant find you can always have a machine shop make the cutter. Here you see the cutter and holder for a drill press.


Jack, am I right in thinking that the cutter you are referring to is for the rosettes only?


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Yes....You can create many profiles with this cutter...


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## Souza1969 (Jan 19, 2021)

Kerber said:


> I have had this house old 1830 home in Boston since 2012 and i have never been able to find a cutter or a bit for these old moldings. I looked everywhere. Closest i ever got is this one cutter. Can anyone point me in right direction? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 399103
> View attachment 399104
> ...


I'm on the Southshore, hour from Boston (at 2am with no traffic).


Kerber said:


> I have had this house old 1830 home in Boston since 2012 and i have never been able to find a cutter or a bit for these old moldings. I looked everywhere. Closest i ever got is this one cutter. Can anyone point me in right direction? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 399103
> View attachment 399104
> ...





Kerber said:


> I have had this house old 1830 home in Boston since 2012 and i have never been able to find a cutter or a bit for these old moldings. I looked everywhere. Closest i ever got is this one cutter. Can anyone point me in right direction? Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> View attachment 399103
> View attachment 399104
> ...


If you're in Boston there's Andersen Mcquaid in Cambridge. I've been a finish carpenter for 30 years on the Southshore & Cape Cod if that pattern wasn't a one off the original builder used solely on your house Andersen Mcquaid will have the cutters, especially being in Boston. They probably won't sell you their cutter, but they'll certainly run stock for you. Ask maybe they'll give you the cutter dimensions, easy enough to have customer moulder knives made.


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## J0seph (Dec 2, 2011)

Superburban said:


> The corner pieces were done with a router, and a different profile.


The corner pieces were probably made with a rosette cutter. I agree that the original was made on a molder.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just re-read your post and caught that it was built in 1830. That means the moldings (if original) were made with a hand plane or multiple planes with different shaped irons. It probably looked something like this:









Or a combination of a flat plane to cut the center flat and then some smaller planes like these to cut the beads and slope.









What the old timers did was to use a file to shape the iron (or blade) into a profile they wanted, then use a combination of files to sharpen the edge. They probably used the hardest steel they could, but compared to today's metals, they would not have held their edge very long, but for short pieces, they did the trick.

Here is an example of a modern plane made to create a complex shape. Note the right hand edge has a stop to keep the plane in the correct position. These are made to duplicate antique trim, such as yours, by museum quality professional restorers. To make one, you trace the profile you want on an blade blank, the have someone laser cut the shape in hardened steel, then hand sharpen the edges into a blade. The plane itself should be cut to the exact shape of the blade. You can see how this works, but you have to have patience since it could take 100 or more strokes shaving just a little at a time each pass. In the old days, an apprentice would do that work. Here's that picture.









Making the body of such a plane is a fun and interesting project. You can find plans for making one in many places, and check youtube for how to make a wooden plane. There are simpler methods, but this gives you the idea and a place to start. 



. 

A quick search found this video on how to make a custom hand plane iron for molding.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi Tom, that is what I was thinking of when I referred to the Lee Valley router bits based on the older Stanley #55 plane profiles.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Biagio said:


> Hi Tom, that is what I was thinking of when I referred to the Lee Valley router bits based on the older Stanley #55 plane profiles.


For those who haven't seen one, here is a very old ad that gives an idea how it works. The side rails guide the plane, and you can add all kinds of small "knives" or blades to cut a wide variety of profiles. They are collectors items and one in usable condition is between $700 and $900, if they are cheaper, they generally need a lot of resurrection. And without cutters, they are useless.


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## Rev. A (Jan 29, 2021)

DesertRatTom said:


> You have a couple of choices. One, find someone to make a bit for you that you can use in a router table $$$. Two, have someone with a shaper make them for you $$$$. Three, find a replacement, same size, different parttern and replace all of them at once $$. Four would be to take one that was in good condition and use it to make a mold and have them formed from some appropriate material $.
> 
> If you are doing a full restoration and can afford it, or are doing it for a fee and want everything absolutely authentic, then option two is your answer. But if you are doing your own dwelling and money is no object, then options three and four will do the trick. If you are doing your own place and money IS an object, then for me, the answer is three.
> 
> Uniformity would have to be uber important to go to all that trouble. I'd probably pull off enough of the old ones to finish up the most public of rooms, or use one to make a mold and form them from plastic wood, especially if they will be painted.


It's all a question of budget, you're exactly right. There are many custom too makers out there, I dealt with them when I was engineering manufacturing solutions for automotive, aerospace and other customer specific parts, usually in high production using CNC mills to machine various steels and irons. Now we try to apply those technologies to woodworking. Because routers are usually limited to to 1/4" or 1/2" shank tools, so be careful of how far the cutting edge is from the shank, it doesn't take much cutting pressure to snap a 1/4" shank. Solid carbide tools can cost more than a low production shop would prefer to invest in but a good option.


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