# Simple router mortise jig



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi all, I am about to 'take it up a notch' and make some shelving for my tin shed.

I want to try mortise and tenon joinery using 4x2 stock instead of pocket hole screws or loose tenon joinery. May need to use treated pine as my shed has a damp dirt floor.

Would love to see some suggestions for using the router hand held to cut the mortises in the frame work.

I have a couple of ideas, but seem to be unable to locate my ideal plan for a simple jig.... 

Please do not suggest a $100+ jig from "wherever"......:no:


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi James

Do you mean proper mortise and tenon, or those bridle joints masquerading as mortise and tenon joints? Take a look at this - I often use the longer fence rods (10mm silver steel rod - for DW, Elu, Festool, Mafell and Bosch 1/2in plungers) and my two site routers (DW625 and DW622) have interchangeable fences

Regards

Phil


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> Hi all, I am about to 'take it up a notch' and make some shelving for my tin shed.
> 
> I want to try mortise and tenon joinery using 4x2 stock instead of pocket hole screws or loose tenon joinery. May need to use treated pine as my shed has a damp dirt floor.
> 
> ...


James, if I remember correctly you have a shed very similar to my gardening shed. If this is correct, then every square centimeter of space is valuable, that being the case, why waste some of it with 4" x 2" timbers. As shown in this shot, Iv'e pop riveted shelf brackets to the walls and the shelves can take a surprising amount of weight.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Phil P said:


> Hi James
> 
> Do you mean proper mortise and tenon, or those bridle joints masquerading as mortise and tenon joints? Take a look at this - I often use the longer fence rods (10mm silver steel rod - for DW, Elu, Festool, Mafell and Bosch 1/2in plungers) and my two site routers (DW625 and DW622) have interchangeable fences
> 
> ...


Hi Phil, yes I do mean 'proper' mortise and tenon joinery. 

I practiced cutting a mortise yesterday using the Ryobi router and edge guide yesterday. The results were OK but I want a base clamped to the work piece to eliminate tilting.

I may get some threaded rod and make a "double" edge guide to see how that goes.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

harrysin said:


> James, if I remember correctly you have a shed very similar to my gardening shed. If this is correct, then every square centimeter of space is valuable, that being the case, why waste some of it with 4" x 2" timbers. As shown in this shot, Iv'e pop riveted shelf brackets to the walls and the shelves can take a surprising amount of weight.



Thanks Harry. You have given me some ideas. I am looking for shelves to store the heavier tools like my new sander, routers, drills etc.

I was not sure that the metal walls would take too much weight, but will look at attaching some peg board to the walls.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> Thanks Harry. You have given me some ideas. I am looking for shelves to store the heavier tools like my new sander, routers, drills etc.
> 
> I was not sure that the metal walls would take too much weight, but will look at attaching some peg board to the walls.


In my work shed James I've bolted 3/4" chipboard to one of the walls and it's just fine. Being cheap chipboard, for really heavy loads I would also BOLT shelf brackets. When we sold out previous home I shot pop rivets in an enormous number of holes in my shed. The BIG holes I covered with "liquid nails"


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Close up of the bolt spacing, please Harry.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

They don't show up well in a photo. but are as follows.
The sheet of chipboard is 1.7mtr x 900mm and there is a 6mm nut and bolt in each corner 200mm in from the sides and 30mm from the top and from the bottom. Spread between them at about 300mm centres are self tappers driven in from the inside, these I forgot to mention. It's surprising what weight can be accommodated when it's spread out. Two or three 3" hinges can hold a solid core door for more than a couple of hundred years!


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

If your tin shed is truly tin and has exposed 2x4's then glue 1x1's on opposite 2x4's and lay in a 1/4" plywood shelf. This eliminates the M&T but it is faster and creates major shelving space.

Good luck - Baker


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

*Sliding Dovetail jigs.*



jw2170 said:


> Hi all, I am about to 'take it up a notch' and make some shelving for my tin shed.
> 
> I want to try mortise and tenon joinery using 4x2 stock instead of pocket hole screws or loose tenon joinery. May need to use treated pine as my shed has a damp dirt floor.
> 
> ...


James,

Attached a couple of sketchup drawing of jigs that I used to make a sliding dovetail joint, you could use the same principle for your M & T joinery.

But I have to agree with Harry 4x2 shelving will take up valuable floor space.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> I practiced cutting a mortise yesterday using the Ryobi router and edge guide yesterday. The results were OK but I want a base clamped to the work piece to eliminate tilting.
> 
> I may get some threaded rod and make a "double" edge guide to see how that goes.


Hi James

On jobs where I can set up a bench I tend to use just the single nence but have the material clamped flush with the top of the bench so I can use the top of the bench as extra support. Where that isn't possible I use two fences - but looking at the routers on the market I can see that this isn't an option with many of the Japanese and Chinese sourced plunge routers. the Fence which is separate from the rods appears to be a European thing

Incidentally, why threaded rod as opposed to silver steel rod?

Regards

Phil


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

James when I have made mortises in construction lumber I simply used my edge guide and plunged into the wood. If extra support is needed put another 2x4 next to the one you are working on for your base to sit. The tenon is cut on the band saw however a circular saw or table saw would also work.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

harrysin said:


> In my work shed James I've bolted 3/4" chipboard to one of the walls and it's just fine. Being cheap chipboard, for really heavy loads I would also BOLT shelf brackets. When we sold out previous home I shot pop rivets in an enormous number of holes in my shed. The BIG holes I covered with "liquid nails"


Hi Harry, 
Is that a router ski I see setting on the shelf?


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## japa62 (May 9, 2012)

I remember seeing a jig that would do what you want but not where. Involved 2 rods under the router then just turn the router and it self centers. If you want it off center, spacers could be used on one side of the board.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?...m_source=gan&utm_medium=aff&utm_campaign=feed

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2641-mortise-tenon-jig-plunge-router.html

==



japa62 said:


> I remember seeing a jig that would do what you want but not where. Involved 2 rods under the router then just turn the router and it self centers. If you want it off center, spacers could be used on one side of the board.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?...m_source=gan&utm_medium=aff&utm_campaign=feed
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2641-mortise-tenon-jig-plunge-router.html
> 
> ==


Thanks, BJ. I found and subscribed to your thread.....


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

rwbaker said:


> If your tin shed is truly tin and has exposed 2x4's then glue 1x1's on opposite 2x4's and lay in a 1/4" plywood shelf. This eliminates the M&T but it is faster and creates major shelving space.
> 
> Good luck - Baker


Hi Richard,

The shed has walls of galvanised steel. there are no interior supports.

The weight has to be carried by these walls.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

breezy said:


> James,
> 
> Attached a couple of sketchup drawing of jigs that I used to make a sliding dovetail joint, you could use the same principle for your M & T joinery.
> 
> But I have to agree with Harry 4x2 shelving will take up valuable floor space.


Thanks Arie.

The 4x2 framing for the shelves is also to be used as practice for mortise and tenon joints. Trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Phil P said:


> Hi James
> 
> On jobs where I can set up a bench I tend to use just the single nence but have the material clamped flush with the top of the bench so I can use the top of the bench as extra support. Where that isn't possible I use two fences - but looking at the routers on the market I can see that this isn't an option with many of the Japanese and Chinese sourced plunge routers. the Fence which is separate from the rods appears to be a European thing
> 
> ...


Thanks Phil.
Good idea to use the bench as a support.

Threaded rod - easy to obtain and no die work required.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

mgmine said:


> James when I have made mortises in construction lumber I simply used my edge guide and plunged into the wood. If extra support is needed put another 2x4 next to the one you are working on for your base to sit. The tenon is cut on the band saw however a circular saw or table saw would also work.


Thanks Art.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

japa62 said:


> I remember seeing a jig that would do what you want but not where. Involved 2 rods under the router then just turn the router and it self centers. If you want it off center, spacers could be used on one side of the board.



Hi James. I have a similar base plate from Oak Park and the required bearings, but even they used a jig to maintain squareness?

BJ has a thread showing how to make their jig.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

harrysin said:


> They don't show up well in a photo. but are as follows.
> The sheet of chipboard is 1.7mtr x 900mm and there is a 6mm nut and bolt in each corner 200mm in from the sides and 30mm from the top and from the bottom. Spread between them at about 300mm centres are self tappers driven in from the inside, these I forgot to mention. It's surprising what weight can be accommodated when it's spread out. Two or three 3" hinges can hold a solid core door for more than a couple of hundred years!


Thanks Harry.

I will give your suggestions a work out.

But I still want to build a frame for some shelving. 

As I mentioned in another post, I will be using this exercise as a milestone in my wood working. We all have to start small....

I will be trimming the 4x2 (or what ever) down to 60mm x 30mm before cutting the mortises.

I had better start drawing up some plans, as you will be calling for a photo shoot, next.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi James

It's time to pickup some 2 x 4 and build a new shop..

==



jw2170 said:


> Thanks Harry.
> 
> I will give your suggestions a work out.
> 
> ...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

James, the other day I saw a youtube video of just what I think you want. Guy made his own mortise thingie, adjustable. Showed him making mortises for a dowel, then different width tenons. And I cannot for the life of me remember where I saw the video. The thing is homemade, and I think it gives enough info to make your own. Adjustments are simple and fast. If I recall right his first language is not English, in fact I don't think he even spoke. I'll keep looking, and post the link, if I can find it again. In the meantime it might jog someone else's memory, and they will post it.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Well James

If you insist on having a jig I might as well throw in a link to the first design I ever saw, by Tage Frid back in the late 1970s (when I even bought his two books and built a few of his gizmos. The design is so basic that people are always tryibg to improve on it, like this attempt.

Slightly more complex, there's this beastie. Neat! Note the use of a quality ELU plunge router :dirol:

Regards

Phil


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Phil.

That Tage Frid jig seem to be the basis for the jig used by Bob & Rick and also one used by Gary Rogowski.

Looks like I have to go and buy some lumber.....


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, finally found the video I was looking for. Portable Mortising Router - part 1 - YouTube The second video is the really awesome one. Almost makes me wish I needed some mortises, so I could try my hand at making one of these.


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

JOAT said:


> OK, finally found the video I was looking for. Portable Mortising Router - part 1 - YouTube The second video is the really awesome one. Almost makes me wish I needed some mortises, so I could try my hand at making one of these.


Wow, a homemade Domino! :lol:

Cool video, thank for posting.
Bill


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

billg71 said:


> Wow, a homemade Domino! :lol:
> 
> Cool video, thank for posting.
> Bill


If you insist on mortise and tenons, why not simplify things and use loose tenons?


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## japa62 (May 9, 2012)

Some more links including dado, mortise and circle cutting


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## Taco (Mar 5, 2013)

harrysin said:


> If you insist on mortise and tenons, why not simplify things and use loose tenons?


+1 Loose tenons (slip tenons, floating tenons) are the only way to go. You can even use a ~$30 Beadlock with a cordless drill when not at the shop.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Taco said:


> +1 Loose tenons (slip tenons, floating tenons) are the only way to go. You can even use a ~$30 Beadlock with a cordless drill when not at the shop.


Yeah I've never quite understood why people call them _floating_ tenons as to me this implies using no glue. Loose is probably the more accurate description.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> Yeah I've never quite understood why people call them _floating_ tenons as to me this implies using no glue.


Probably because they are generally made a little under-length in order to "wiggle", "shimmy" or "float" the joint into position. By their nature loose tenone tend to be less accurately made than traditional mortise and tenon joints which have to be an exact fit.

Regards

phil


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

James, I posted a simple mortising jig how to last year. Could this help?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Taco said:


> +1 Loose tenons (slip tenons, floating tenons) are the only way to go. You can even use a ~$30 Beadlock with a cordless drill when not at the shop.




hahaha.

You just reminded me that I have a beadlock sitting in the shed.....
(but only the smaller one)....


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike said:


> James, I posted a simple mortising jig how to last year. Could this help?



Mike, at this stage, I am favouring a jig like that but with a slot to take a 3/4" guide bush.

That way the jig may be clamped to the work piece to provide more stability.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Oak Park to the rescue....*

After all the suggestions from the forum, I started to make a mortise jig this morning. I cut some hardboard to width (7 1/2") and was pondering which way to cut the required slots. Do I use the table, the skis, the guide fence, what.????

I then remembered that I had the mortise bearing set from Oak park to go on my 7" base plate for the Makita router.

I installed the bearings and using a 11mm straight bit in the router cut all the mortises.

I clamped the 4 'styles' together and laid out the mortises. By clamping 3 together, I was able to provide a stable platform for the router and also centered the mortise in the middle style.

Some photos are attached.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Some photos are attached.


The dark room light must have been on James.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

You know how those senior moments can be Hilton.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Hahaha*

I forgot to re-size the pictures and then got called to dinner....LOL.

I am happy with the results for my first attempt at mortise by router.....

i used the edge guide to cut the mortises in the flat side of the styles. Thanks to The Router Workshop, I was able to maintain the correct feed direction...


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Yeah nice James. Are you going to size loose tenons for those mortices or are you still going with normal tenons?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

cagenuts said:


> Yeah nice James. Are you going to size loose tenons for those mortices or are you still going with normal tenons?


I am going for normal tenons cut on the router table for this build.

Hope to do some test cuts tomorrow..

This is a good exercise for me as it is teaching me to take my time, keep working on it and not to expect it to be finished in a day or two.

I also bought a new Incra Miter V120 yesterday and have a stacking dado blade set to try out...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Changed my mind....*

There has been a fair bit of discussion over the last year or so as to whether a miter slot is a handy item on a router table.

Well, I used my new Incra Miter 120 today on the larger router table to cut the tenons for the shelving I am building for the shed.

I must say, I was converted and found the miter gauge in the slot very handy.

The weapon of choice was a 3/4' tenon cutter I bought from Wealden Tools last year.

Will post some photos of the tenons tomorrow as I have slight problem - the tenons are too thin....


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Not a router solution but I ran across this video for mortising, 'tis very fast

Fastest Cleanest mortises. - YouTube


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

TomE said:


> Not a router solution but I ran across this video for mortising, 'tis very fast


They _were_ very fast _back in the day_, Tom - Maka stopped making them 15 or 20 years ago. The tooling is fiercely expensive and you more or less need a different cutter for each size of mortise you cut. These days the favoured fast solution for manufacturing is the Alternax (@1:04) which doesn't require a different cutter for each mortise size and cuts a more accurate mortise with a flat bottom (Makas cut a concave bottom). Neither is really that much faster than a Domino, though (@2:40)

Regards

Phil


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> There has been a fair bit of discussion over the last year or so as to whether a miter slot is a handy item on a router table.
> 
> Well, I used my new Incra Miter 120 today on the larger router table to cut the tenons for the shelving I am building for the shed.
> 
> I must say, I was converted and found the miter gauge in the slot very handy.


Fully agree, James. Would not want to be without a miter slot... I use it all the time. Yes their are ways without it, but they are not always easier!:yes4:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

_"Unfortunately there is lots of bad information online;

====
_


Phil P said:


> They _were_ very fast _back in the day_, Tom - Maka spopped making them 15 or 20 years ago. The tooling is fiercely expensive and you more or less need a different cutter for each size of mortise you cut. These days the favoured fast solution for manufacturing is the Alternax (@1:04) which doesn't require a different cutter for each mortise size and cuts a more accurate mortise with a flat bottom (Makas cut a concave bottom). Neither is really that much faster than a Domino, though (@2:40)
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> _"Unfortunately there is lots of bad information online;
> 
> ====
> _


Just what are you complaining about now, then?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

BJ, unless you are poking fun at the fact that Norm Abram's name is spelled wrong in Phil's quote you really should include a bit more information.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Chick fight!


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*mortise jig*

Hi James i read your post with renewed interest with good look at that mortise bit from wealdon what was the quality of the cut and were you happy with the cutter.regards carl


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> Chick fight!


Nah! Bob's bound to have/more/bigger/better handbags than I could ever afford :yes4:


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

carl.p said:


> Hi James i read your post with renewed interest with good look at that mortise bit from wealdon what was the quality of the cut and were you happy with the cutter.regards carl



Hi Carl.

The mortises were cut with a 11mm straight cutter.

The cutter from Wealden I used for the tenon side was 25mm Tenon Cutter #T2430 with 1/4" shank.

The Triton TRB001 comes with a 1/4" collet so did not need to use a reducing sleeve.

The cut was very clean, and I was glad I bought it on a whim last year.

I had to use a longer straight cutter on the shoulders.


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*wealdon tenon bit*

Hi James did you order that bit diredct from wealdon, because i tried to place an order last year with them and got a negative respnonse saying that thet could not supply me with cutters as i live in sa meaning they do not want our bussiness which is a pity as they have some very nice looking cutters, i will have to try and get a contact that i know in the uk to try and help me out with that order. regards carl


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

carl.p said:


> Hi James did you order that bit diredct from wealdon, because i tried to place an order last year with them and got a negative respnonse saying that thet could not supply me with cutters as i live in sa meaning they do not want our bussiness which is a pity as they have some very nice looking cutters, i will have to try and get a contact that i know in the uk to try and help me out with that order. regards carl



Yes, Carl.

I did order them direct from Wealden Cutters.

I ordered the tenon cutter, a profile cutter and the supposed 1/4" collet for the Makita 3612C. Delivery was by post and did not take that long to arrive.

Maybe you should have stayed in the Commonwealth.......LOL.......Oh. You must be as we still play you in Cricket...LOL.

I know that there are some strange systems around the world as far as sales to foreign countries are concerned. I know that Oak Park would only sell to USA and Canada. It may have something to do with Customs and fees charged by some countries, goods not arriving, etc....

I think, from memory, I sent them an e-mail to see if they posted to Australia, but I can't locate the e-mail. I did have a crash after I came back from USA in June 2012. :'(


PS: I found the email from Wealden in August 2012. I may have telephoned them.....not sure.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

PPS their web site shows they only sell to UK and Europe ( not to the Americas or South Africa).....but MAY sell to other places......

Apparently they do to Australia....


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

carl.p said:


> Hi James did you order that bit diredct from wealdon, because i tried to place an order last year with them and got a negative respnonse saying that thet could not supply me with cutters as i live in sa meaning they do not want our bussiness


Hi Carl

Sorry to hear that. I've used Wealden for quite a few years here in the UK and they pride themsleves on being good value for money and the excellent servioce they offer, but here they always send stuff to me over about £50 on recorded delivery so perhaps that's where the problem is - it may be that they have difficulty insuring deliveries to ZA or it costs too much. Not sure.



carl.p said:


> i will have to try and get a contact that i know in the uk to try and help me out with that order. regards carl


In that case PM me. 

Regards

Phil


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

carl.p said:


> could not supply me with cutters as i live in sa meaning they do not want our bussiness


Carl, you should be using these couriers. Saffer dude living on Mud Island and will only ship to South Africa. Has depots in the USA, UK and Aus. From the UK, the stuff arrives about 24hrs later.

If the overall cost of the parcel is less than R500 (including shipping) then SARS won't nail you import duties. Of course it's cheaper to ship multiple items but then you need to factor in the einaar from SARS.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> The cutter from Wealden I used for the tenon side was 25mm Tenon Cutter #T2430 with 1/4" shank.


James, any reason why you did not buy the biggest tenon cutter available?

I see Wealden has a 1/2" shank 50mm version that looks pretty mean. I guess you would bury it in the fence to reduce the tenon length?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

cagenuts said:


> James, any reason why you did not buy the biggest tenon cutter available?
> 
> I see Wealden has a 1/2" shank 50mm version that looks pretty mean. I guess you would bury it in the fence to reduce the tenon length?



No Reason, Hilton.

I just bought the 1/4" collet and wanted to build up my stock of 1/4" shank cutters that I could use with the Ozito router. It only has 1/4" and 8mm collets.

I have some other 1/4" shank cutters also.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> No Reason, Hilton.


Thanks James. It looks like a nice router bit. Added it to my wish list for pay day next month.


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