# Edge Chamfers on Small Parts



## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I make Turtle planters where the bodies are oval octagons built up in layers,The plans call for chamfers on the edges to provide a contour. I've cut parts by running them against the fence but not comfortable doing it that way because of the limited contact area. Because I have three to make, I took some time and came with a fixture to hold the parts. It works so well that I'm going to clean it up a little and save it to use in the future. The fixture holds the parts securely and the clamps work out well as a handle - because the t-track is off-center, I can use one side for narrower parts and the other for wider ones.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom this is an excellent post , thank you ! A lot of incidents where people were badly hurt was from working with small pieces . This is a must have for me


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Tom
first in my opinon you are using a right tilt table saw, and you should move your fence to the left of blade ( your trapping your cutoffs causing them to kick back at you ) if do this you should just be able to use a push block with no hold downs much safer.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Semipro said:


> Tom
> first in my opinon you are using a right tilt table saw, and you should move your fence to the left of blade ( your trapping your cutoffs causing them to kick back at you ) if do this you should just be able to use a push block with no hold downs much safer.


agreed...


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## JohnWalker (Sep 29, 2015)

Hi Tomp,
That is really really beautiful Turtle planters i haven't seen it before . Great Job .


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Semipro said:


> Tom
> first in my opinon you are using a right tilt table saw, and you should move your fence to the left of blade ( your trapping your cutoffs causing them to kick back at you ) if do this you should just be able to use a push block with no hold downs much safer.


Cutting these parts is the only time I've used the saw to cut a bevel, I wasn't aware that the cut should be done on the left side of the blade. This is the third turtle I've built, and I've never had a problem with kick-back doing it like this, but I'll modify my fixture so I can cut to the left for the next ones. The smallest pieces are going to be a problem - 1-1/2" square with a 3/4" chamfer on the edge - but I may look at ripping a long piece and then cutting to length afterwards. I'm currently ripping a piece of 2x to width and then cutting the pieces on the miter saw, flipping the piece over after every cut to use minimal material and not wind up with a pile of little triangular cutoffs.

Thanks for pointing this out, I don't want to be doing something that isn't safe.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

JohnWalker said:


> Hi Tomp,
> That is really really beautiful Turtle planters i haven't seen it before . Great Job .


Thanks, I use these plans and make some modifications https://www.thewinfieldcollection.com/product/2X_Tortoise_Planter_Project_Plans/planter_woodworking_plans The body is made of layers, and the plans call for assembling using a band clamp - I don't want to wait for the glue to dry so I use a pocket hole screw at the joint to hold it while the glue dries - except for the smaller (top) ring which is too small so I wind up clamping it.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I second the motion to bevel while long and then cut to size...


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## Bricknhank (Dec 28, 2013)

semipro said:


> tom
> first in my opinon you are using a right tilt table saw, and you should move your fence to the left of blade ( your trapping your cutoffs causing them to kick back at you ) if do this you should just be able to use a push block with no hold downs much safer.


x3!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm looking at Tom's picture and trying to figure out just what "offcut" you guys are talking about(?).
The only offcut that is produced is to the LEFT of the blade and above it; trapped how?
The clamped piece isn't even touching the fence, although the clamping jig is...but not touching the blade.
It can certainly come back but it _can't rise up_ (because of the cant of the blade).
I'm going to be perverse here and come down on Tom's original plan.
I'll go stand in the corner now...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

:surprise: :no: If you're going to be perverse, you are not allowed in the corner...

Don't think the cutoff would be the issue...if anything the clamped piece under the blade...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nickp said:


> :surprise: :no: If you're going to be perverse, you are not allowed in the corner...
> 
> Don't think the cutoff would be the issue...if anything the clamped piece under the blade...


OK, _that's_ certainly a consideration, but the others were referring to trapped offcuts.
But again the clamping jig can't rise up, the blade blocks it.
I suppose it could come straight back...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I think I see it like Nick does. The offcut falls on the blade which may toss it but probably not too hard. I would be more concerned too about the clamped piece trapped between the blade and table although that looks like a good clamping system. I would just be more comfortable doing that job with the fence on the left side of the blade. That would just seem to me to be a better way.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks, Charles. I see the lack of a blade guard and anti-kickback pawls being far more of a hazard than the right left issue. But that's just me.

I recently had a close call taking a leaf from you guys and your exposed blade technique. Blade guards back on (except for the non through cuts) and it's staying on!
When I say close call there was blood but no serious damage...*EEK!*


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I had the guard on when I was ripping the lengths to width but took it off when I was cutting the chamfers because it was too close to the fence and I couldn't get my push stick on top of the part properly. I think that I can modify the fixture to use it on the left hand side by narrowing the width on either side of the t-track - not enough to cut the chamfer on the 1-1/2" wide pieces, but I'll rip a piece to width and then cut the 22-1/2° angles.

Because the body shape is an oval octagon, and the inside dimensions are constant over the 5 layers, there are 3 separate inside lengths, on parts of different width. I made 3 patterns for the different lengths out of tempered hardboard and just mark each part - not too bad, but kind of slow if I'm making multiples so I'm thinking of a way to make a fixture to clamp to the miter saw table. I set the blade angle with a sliding bevel and then don't move the saw until I'm finished so looking at some kind of stop that I can push the board against.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Thanks, Charles. I see the lack of a blade guard and anti-kickback pawls being far more of a hazard than the right left issue. But that's just me.
> 
> I recently had a close call taking a leaf from you guys and your exposed blade technique. Blade guards back on (except for the non through cuts) and it's staying on!
> When I say close call there was blood but no serious damage...*EEK!*


Two of the reasons I like the left side better is that is the the blade is tilted away from your hand instead of at it and because the cut is on the bottom side of your piece you don't have to have the blade as high. With the cut Tom shows in his pictures the blade would only need to be about 1" high which is lower than the top of the piece so that there would be no blade exposed to his hand that way. Certainly it is always safer to use a blade guard unless it makes the cut way more difficult to perform.

So exactly what happened to your hand?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

good lessons in safety here. I want the blade exposed as little as necessary, and I don't want anything trapped between blade and fence when it is cut off. I have one kickback experience and never want to have that happen again. I want my hands as far as possible from the blade. 

Kickback generally happens when a loose or trapped piece gets picked up by the back end of the blade which is rising from the table at that point. It is spinning at about 100 mph, and launches things very effectively. It is also why you don't stand in line with the blade. 

One thing that drives me nuts about many Youtube demo vids is when I see someone reach across the blade to pick up the cut piece while the blade is still moving. Sometimes you have to expose the blade, that's when you want all the jig help you can get. Good effort though.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I think I see it like Nick does. The offcut falls on the blade which may toss it but probably not too hard. I would be more concerned too about the clamped piece trapped between the blade and table although that looks like a good clamping system. I would just be more comfortable doing that job with the fence on the left side of the blade. That would just seem to me to be a better way.


I can see it...
the drop is caught by the back of the blade and launched at your face like a spear...

for general information...
eyes are not expendable... 
piercing a neck artery can suck too...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Nice Jig Tom, This is perfect for small pieces, You will never cut your fingers off on a Table Saw if you keep them away from the blade. I would do the moulding in long lengths and then cut it into smaller pieces but I like your Jig. N


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tom; personally I'd be making long stock lengths of that chamfered profile and cutting the pieces to length as needed. Way less hazardous and a _lot_ more efficient. 
If you're doing this the way you are only to avoid the little triangle scraps, consider the actual value of the scrap as opposed to your time (and safety).
By the way, I really like your rip jig!


I started to type this a couple of hours ago, then that wind warning we have cut our power. So kind of an echo hear.

Stick; if the blade guard is in place nothing's getting launched.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"So exactly what happened to your hand?"

Nicked the back of my left-hand-pointer-fingernail down to the meat underneath. Just touched the juicy part. Other than being extremely sensitive for a couple of weeks, no serious damage done...soooo close though.
Never, never, never doing that again! BLADE GUARD ON!!!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

wind warning/cut power???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> wind warning/cut power???


Yes. Several times this week. The winds snap off conifer branches, dropping them across the primaries and neutrals...regularly. P.I.T.A.!
Twice I've been in the garage/workshop when the power went off.
I discovered that when you use the emergency cord, you can't relock the garage door from the outside. You need to wait till the power comes back up to activate the door closer. 

I was using the planer when it went off this morning...much to my surprise it didn't drop the switch. Power came on a couple of minutes later _and the planer started up again!!!_ Startled me I can tell you.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> "So exactly what happened to your hand?"
> 
> Nicked the back of my left-hand-pointer-fingernail down to the meat underneath. Just touched the juicy part. Other than being extremely sensitive for a couple of weeks, no serious damage done...soooo close though.
> Never, never, never doing that again! BLADE GUARD ON!!!!


The odds are not in the workers favor no matter how careful they are when they log many many hours of time on wood working machinery. Eventually there will be a mishap.

I'm not talking Doom and Gloom just reality. Safety is on going. It is not part of the job, IT IS THE JOB!


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Tom; personally I'd be making long stock lengths of that chamfered profile and cutting the pieces to length as needed. Way less hazardous and a _lot_ more efficient.
> If you're doing this the way you are only to avoid the little triangle scraps, consider the actual value of the scrap as opposed to your time (and safety).
> By the way, I really like your rip jig!
> 
> ...


Firstly, I looked at remaking the fixture to cut the chamfers with the fence to the left, it doesn't look like it will be a problem and will do that before I start on the next assembly.

I've attached part of the plan with the cut list showing how the piece is flipped after every cut to minimize material. It also makes the work easier as you're not changing the angle on the saw L-R for every piece. I cut the parts with the blade swiveled to the Right - after the first cut on the end of the board, I flip it over and mark the cut line using my pattern, I can see the blade relative to the cut line better when the blade is to the right of the cut line. I set the angle on the saw initially using a sliding bevel that I set with one of those plates with the angles etched on the face (and double check with a protractor) rather than depend on the detent on the saw as this gives me a more accurate cut (although the detent is very close), so switching the blade side-to-side would be very time consuming. Plus, I need to take time to make a stop to clamp to the left side of the fence so I don't have to measure/mark every cut - I'd have to move the stop between each "set" of parts but I can cut all the different width parts that have the same inside dimension before I have to move the stop. I don't think cutting the chamfers on \the individual pieces is going to be a problem if I have them clamped to the fixture and with the fence moved to the left of the blade. I will make the narrow pieces as a long strip and cut the individual parts after I cut the chamfer on the edge.

Thanks everyone for your input.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks for sharing the plan Tom. You are right not to trust the detents. Over time sawdust and pitch starts to pack up against them and prevents the trunnion from making contact with the stops. I like to set mine a little past 45 and 90 and set them with a gauge each time. It's slower but you know what you'll get that way.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

And then, after reading the thread about the saw holder, I have to ask myself why I didn't put a wider blade in the bandsaw and cut the chamfers there. Tunnel vision maybe? Two photos, same outcome - the first wearing a plumber's hat, the second after thinking about it for a while.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I can easily think of.......ohhhhhhhhhhhhh say a HUNDRED people who'd love one of these planters..............


DAMN!!!!!


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Thanks. Just got back from our m/c chapter Christmas party with an order for another one. I would mass produce them if I had the space - the big problem is somewhere to store the treated lumber until it dries out.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

neville9999 said:


> Nice Jig Tom, This is perfect for small pieces, You will never cut your fingers off on a Table Saw if you keep them away from the blade. I would do the moulding in long lengths and then cut it into smaller pieces but I like your Jig. N


Not necessarily true. No one will be able to react fast enough to keep their hands clear if there is an accident that pulls the workpiece, jig, or both in toward the blade. Your hand is just likely to follow before you know it happened. The fastest any person can move is at the speed of a reflex loop in the nervous system, and that is 1/5th of a second in, 1/5th of a second out. By that time, you're nearly half a second into the incident and you are already injured. Blade guards, hands far from blades, use jigs, don't trap a piece so the back of the blade lifts them up, all the hints in this string and you are far less likely to be injured. 

I love using jigs.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

I love that jig.
It still doesn't take much to scare the bejebus out of me.
I plan to stay 'stupid' enough to never take the safety stuff off. I doubt I will ever be masterful enough to have a legitimate reason to take it off. After reading some of the posts here, and seeing some of the photos on Google while researching Router Bits and Table Saw pics, I think myself more crazy than even I admit to taking up woodworking...

Now I'm off to go researching putting the fence on the left side of the blade...

I'm already envisioning trying to make that planter a six-sided hive roof...It would SO look like a beehive! Painted golden...

~M


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

found this on the web

Left or Right tilt saw?

Both saws will make all the same cuts. The differences are all in the methods of work, and what will feel natural/intuitive to you. For me, what is natural tends to be safer, which is why I bought a left-tilt Unisaw when I upgraded from a contractor's saw.

1. Commonly, the left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is easily turned with your right hand. Since I'm right-handed, that's intuitively where it feels like it belongs.

2. Again intuitively, I keep the rip fence on the right side of the blade. Since my Unisaw is the left tilt version, I can rip a narrow bevel (for example on the edge of sheet goods) without having to move the fence to the left side of the blade in order to avoid trapping the cutoff against the fence, risking it becoming the proverbial "hidden arrow" should it kickback.

3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand. It is also threaded in the standard fashion... again, intuitive.

4. With a left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point of the bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the bottom of the fence where it might slip under.

5. The right tilt gives you the advantage of using the rip fence distance indicator (long tape measure mounted to the fence rail) when using a stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence, so the indicated measurement remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack toward the fence, which means that you have to factor in the thickness of the dado stack and calculate, or else measure with a tape rather than the mounted indicator.

6. A right tilting arbor allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand, which may feel more natural to a "southpaw," but the nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Counter-intuitive and, therefore, can be confusing.

7. On most cabinet saws, the left tilt allows you to have access to the motor and inside the cabinet from the more open left side of the saw, avoiding the need to contort yourself under the right extension table. If you've ever dropped the arbor nut into the cabinet (I'm sure I'm the only soul who has done so), and it doesn't pop out of the dust port, this is a convenience for which you'll be grateful.

Others will likely post additional considerations that haven't come to mind, but those are certainly the differences you would experience most often

Right tilt saw usually have to be ordered few are kept in stock!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fence left...
zero clearance plate..
elevated feather board to hold piece to the fence...
position feather board above the blade...
blade set to less angle...
pieces through on edge instead of flat...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Moz said:


> I love that jig.
> It still doesn't take much to scare the bejebus out of me.
> I plan to stay 'stupid' enough to never take the safety stuff off. I doubt I will ever be masterful enough to have a legitimate reason to take it off. After reading some of the posts here, and seeing some of the photos on Google while researching Router Bits and Table Saw pics, I think myself more crazy than even I admit to taking up woodworking...
> 
> ...


The golden color is from Olympic Deck Stain, I'd think that it would be toxic to bees (label is mostly "Warnings") - and the smell lingers for a while too. The company that I bought the plans from sells acrylic paint/stain that can be diluted with water, and I'm sure they have something equivalent. But I'm sure that you can go in a craft store and buy something water-base/non-toxic that's equivalent. On the outside stuff, they normally call for a coating on top of the color to help it last longer.

Don't know what size the hive is, but it would be pretty easy to make an octagonal roof to suit - wider boards and overlap, with a "Solid" octagon on the top to finish it off. It would be heavy if made out of 2x - and I think that the roof lifts off for access?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> fence left...
> zero clearance plate..
> elevated feather board to hold piece to the fence...
> position feather board above the blade...
> ...


But you aren't specifying whether it's a *left or right tilt blade*.
I'm picturing what you describe as being for a _right_ tilt(?)...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

right tilt > fence left..
left tilt > fence right..


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I don't even remember which way mine tilts, have to go look, the tilt handle is on the front.

Herb


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> fence left...
> zero clearance plate..
> elevated feather board to hold piece to the fence...
> position feather board above the blade...
> ...


Good for the top layer which is chamfered at 45° but the other layers are chamfered between 27 - 34° so the blade doesn't lay over far enough to run the parts on the edge. I'm going to stick with fence on the left and modify my fixture - I had he idea that I could put an angled block on the trailing end of the fixture to trap the part between it and the t-track and use a toggle clamp to hold the part down on the fixture as that would speed up the process.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Could you do all this on a router table? You could be very safe using push sticks.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

hawkeye10 said:


> Could you do all this on a router table? You could be very safe using push sticks.


The 45° chamfer on the upper layer is 3/4", too much probably for one cut. The other chamfers are "odd" angles, at least compared to standard router bits, so I'd have to either make angles sleds or a tilting table set-up. The TS is so much quicker and changing over to the fence on the left in conjunction with the fixture should be perfectly safe. With the Unifence I can lay it down flat so I can stand to the left of the fence and still be able to push through the blade. 

As an aside, I never had a problem with the fence on the right - I don't see the offcut getting "trapped" as it just kind of slides down the blade until it hits the table and winds up pretty much as shown in the one photo. I would think for some reason that the offcut being under the blade would have more potential for being pushed out towards the operator but that's apparently not the case. So, before the odds catch up with me, I'll go with the fence on the left.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom I'm curious to hear from you when you push it on the left side of the fence . I know I'm not going to as I suspect it's going to feel to alien compared to what I'm used to making it more of a risk


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Rick
you have a right tilt saw?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Semipro said:


> Rick
> you have a right tilt saw?


Yes sir


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

TheCableGuy said:


> Tom I'm curious to hear from you when you push it on the left side of the fence . I know I'm not going to as I suspect it's going to feel to alien compared to what I'm used to making it more of a risk


Reworking the fixture isn't going to take that long, I'll go ahead and do it and let you know how it works out. With the Unifence, I'm thinking that if I lay it flat that I can easily still feed with my right hand - which would have the added benefit of moving me to the left and not behind the cut in case the offcut squirts back.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's the fixture after I modified it - replaced the t-track and clamps with a strip of wood and a toggle clamp. 

First photo shows longest, widest piece, the second photo shows the shortest, widest piece and the third shows the narrowest, shortest piece which would be the range of parts needed to be cut. The pieces with the 45° chamfers I will just feed through on edge.

The fence laid flat gives good access, although I couldn't cut a wider piece without the carriage coming off the track. The fence in the upright position still gives plenty of access, although I'd have to either buy a different clamp or redo the fixture with a wider piece of plywood to use it like that. As I'm taking the fence off the carriage anyway and moving it to the right side, it's just as easy to lay it flat, although I'd need it upright to run the parts with the 45° chamfers.


Rick,

I didn't have any problem feeding left handed but using the right hand moved me to the left of the fence and well out of the way of any kickback. It also let me lift the fixture straight up once it cleared the blade and move it back over the fence. It actually feels a little more natural to push right-handed against the fence on the left - kind of a right hook motion - where you're pushing out with a right-hand fence. I like it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

nicely executed...
KUDOS...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Good job Tom , and I never thought about the advantage regarding kick back .

I forgot some of you guys don't move as fast as you used to . J/k


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I worked with a gentleman back in the 70's who had one of the early B&D radial arm saws - he used to talk about the time when he was ripping narrow strips off a sheet of paneling and the saw kicked back. The strip flew across his basement and punched through the drywall on the opposite side of the basement. I had a RA saw for over 40 years, never once tried to rip anything on it based on that story.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

tomp913 said:


> I worked with a gentleman back in the 70's who had one of the early B&D radial arm saws - he used to talk about the time when he was ripping narrow strips off a sheet of paneling and the saw kicked back. The strip flew across his basement and punched through the drywall on the opposite side of the basement. I had a RA saw for over 40 years, never once tried to rip anything on it based on that story.


ripping is dangerous...

don't do it either..


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Wusses...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

so you are numbering your days...


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