# About Shop vac's



## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Hello again.
I'm about to buy a small 250mm planer thicknesser. I obviously need a vacum cleaner. I do have an Alto Nielfisk Aero 25. Would that be enough for a start if I had a cyclon? The planer has a100mm. contact.
The producers talk about how many m3/h air the product is vacuming. How do I know what I need? There must be a rate about what is the minimum and what is good etc.
The max. cut is 2mm.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Nilfisk aero 25 
-1400w
-airflow 3600L/min
-190mbar/19Kpa


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Esko-

Get ahold of the tech support for the planer manufacturer. 

Many of my machines have a minimum recommended CFM rating for Dust Evacuation. (Example- my panel saw is rated at 1150 cfm minimum.) Sometimes we have to get a little creative to guesstamate and compare what that might be when we are using "shop vacuums" (that are rated in mm or inches lift of water) instead something with a Dust Collector (material handling impeller that is rated in how much it moves in a period of time).

I think my commercial wet/dry vacuum is rated at 195 inches water of vacuum, but is only 150 cfm. My DC is about 1200 cfm, but is only 8 inches water of vacuum.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*Dust collection*

Hi Esko, to my mind, a shop vac does not have the capacity for a planer thicknesser.

Here is mine:

W886 | HD12 Dust Collector | machineryhouse.com.au

They have downgraded the capacity from 1100CFM to 680 CFM but it will handle my 

318mm planer.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have a 16"/40cm planer that will do 3mm. It produces so many chips that I gave up and took the dust chute off and now I just shovel the floor when done. Needless to say I don't plane inside my shop. The vac might work for a few boards at a time but you will be emptying it every few minutes if you plane very much and if the vac isn't powerful enough to clear the chute it will plug up.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank's fellows. I'll look for the nesessary rate in the technical details. That sounds good that ~0,75Kw should be enough. Have you read that some machines is ment only to dust and not to wood chips at all? Why might that be?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Because most of the time I rely on wood that has been given to me, my planer/thicknesser gets a lot of use and produces lots of waste, I therefore wouldn't dream of using anything other than my 1hp two bag DC with 100mm hose.I doubt that many members would go into the maths., we all know that a planer/thicknesser would keep clogging anything less than a 100mm hose. For all other machines standard shop vacs are fine.
These shots, some as things were, the rest how things are now show that at long last I'm taking dust collection seriously. Each machine will have it's own master/slave switch.


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Esko
Much as the others have said.I have 20 " RBI planer .My dust collector is a 3 horse cyclone with a 8 inch pipe. While it will take care of the planer, the 55 gallon collection will fill very quickly so I don't use it. If it's not too cold I open the overhead door and push the planer to the opening and shoot the chips outside. I place a 30 inch fan behind and blow the dust outside. I surface a lot of rough sawn lumber so you may not have the amount of shavings I do in which case a lesser collection idea may work for you.
dennis


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## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> It produces so many chips that I gave up and took the dust chute off and now I just shovel the floor when done.


That is my experience as well. I have a little Delta 12 inch planer. I use lots of reclaimed wood, like Harry. Dust does not seem to be a real problem. The problem I have is mass. Mine is old and does not have a dust collection port. I tried hooking something up at first but it was more trouble then scooping up the shavings with a grain scoop and filling a wheelbarrow.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

david_de said:


> ...I tried hooking something up at first but it was more trouble then scooping up the shavings with a grain scoop and filling a wheelbarrow.


Take note Esko... Good winter bedding for your horses.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Take note Esko... Good winter bedding for your horses.


And cows, chickens, home insulation, etc. When I start planing rough lumber down I have no trouble getting rid of the chips as I live in a rural area. They make great insulation, better than fibreglass in my opinion, only problem is they are flammable. I can fill the box of a pickup in about an hour.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Using any planer creates a lot of waste in the form of shavings and large sawdust, way more than a vacuum, even a shop vacuum can handle. A serious dust collector is necessary. I have a small shop and quickly realized that no vacuum cleaner could handle the volume produced and doing this inside the shop without a large dust collector made a mess that took longer to clean up than the time that I spent using the planer. I now do all of my planing outside in the driveway. 

My new planer, a DeWalt 735, has a built-in blower to exhaust the chips from the planer. I bought their accessory hose and bag type drum cover and attach this to the top of a 55 gal fiber drum. It works quite well with only a few stray chips escaping. I can fill that 55 gal drum in about 15 minutes, to give you an idea of the volume that you will be dealing with. 

To be able to move the planer outside and back in easily I bought a Delta miter saw/planer stand which folds and wheels around like a hand truck. This makes it much easier to move the planer and set it up. When not in use the planer and stand together sit upright in the corner of my shop and take less than 4 sq feet of floor space. The fiber drum gets stored in the shop's attic.

Charley


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

thank's guy's. I see from your reply's that a shop vac (is it the name for the big vac?) is a must. I knew that a planer thicknesser produces alot of shavings, we had a Kity 260mm 15yrs ago. It's a good option to lift the machine out but doing that in a snow storm isn't the way for me to get any "kicks", J. Hendrix will handel that part(ofcourse I should have said "on route 66" ;-)).
Ok so I have to check the manual of the PT to get knowing the airflow rate. Can somebody explain what's the meaning of "not for wood chips. Dust only". If I use it against that do I blow up the vak?
i do have the horses in mind Mike, and that is allso a reason to have a shop vak!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

When you get this all working for you please remember that some woods are poison to horses. Black walnut is one of them. If you plane black walnut put the shavings in the garbage and not in the bedding for the horses. Some imported woods are also toxic to animals, so be careful with the shavings and know which ones are OK and which are not.

Charley


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There are two types of vacs Esko. One creates a vacuum but the impeller is not in the airstream. It is on the out flow side. The other one has the impeller in the airstream on the inflow side. That may be your type and why it says no chips. The bigger dust collection systems have the impeller on the inlet side but there is a lot of room around the impeller blades so the chips don't hurt them.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This shot explains the difference.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

FWIW.

I run a 6.5hp Craftsman shopvac w/2 1/2" hose thru Dust Deputy on my 13" Planer without a problem. Prior to acquiring a DC, I ran my 6" jointer thru the same system without any problems..


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> FWIW.
> 
> I run a 6.5hp Craftsman shopvac w/2 1/2" hose thru Dust Deputy on my 13" Planer without a problem. Prior to acquiring a DC, I ran my 6" jointer thru the same system without any problems..


I was going to suggest going through a cyclone too. That should solve the problem as no chips should make it past the cyclone.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

What kind of cyclone/dust collector combination would you then think would be a good solution? James seamed to have a deasent looking DC. This looks actually the same Bernardo DC 200 Puruimuri | Konecon Oy 
How big cyclon would i need to this? Any technical details in mind?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

It does look similar, Esko.

Mine will handle the chips and sawdust from my 6" jointer and the planer.

Only one machine at a time.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

TwoSkies57 said:


> FWIW.
> 
> I run a 6.5hp Craftsman shopvac w/2 1/2" hose thru Dust Deputy on my 13" Planer without a problem. Prior to acquiring a DC, I ran my 6" jointer thru the same system without any problems..


Bill, 6.5hp! I would think that would suck it all through the eye of a needle!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Harry..... 6.5hp or as the ad says "6.5 "peak" hp". have no idea as to how they came about that rating, With 'peak' being the operative word there no doubt. Heck, my DC is just rated at 1hp or close to it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bill, I'd love to hear Craftsman's explanation...lol.
You could write them and complain that you're having trouble reaching 'peak HP'


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> Bill, I'd love to hear Craftsman's explanation...lol.
> You could write them and complain that you're having trouble reaching 'peak HP'


Dan... 

The thing actually works, and works well.. I don't wanna jinx it by writing a letter. *L*
I will say that when its running, it sounds like the back end of a Saturn Rocket...even with a muffler.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank's Harry for explaing the difference behind the names.
I'll keep in mind Charley that sme woods are toxic to horses/animals. In Finland we have only one spiece that is toxic.
Thank's Charles for the detaild info. I must check the cyclone market in Finland and order it from the States, lol. I have never seen an advertisement of cyclones in local stores.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Tiny said:


> Thank's Harry for explaing the difference behind the names.
> I'll keep in mind Charley that sme woods are toxic to horses/animals. In Finland we have only one spiece that is toxic.
> Thank's Charles for the detaild info. I must check the cyclone market in Finland and order it from the States, lol. I have never seen an advertisement of cyclones in local stores.


You could consider making one Esko. Search for the Thien Baffle or Thien cyclone both here and on the web if necessary. On one of these you will see the plans for a home made one that you can use with a garbage can or an old steel oil barrel.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Harry..... 6.5hp or as the ad says "6.5 "peak" hp". have no idea as to how they came about that rating, With 'peak' being the operative word there no doubt. Heck, my DC is just rated at 1hp or close to it.


Indeed. My DC claims to be 2 hp. It is a decent size induction motor that runs at 9 amps on a 220v circuit with a 6" intake. I don't think they are comparing apples to apples.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Esko,

If you decide to build your own cyclone dust collector you should do some internet searches for "Bill Pentz cyclone". His site contains a huge amount of information on determining the sizes needed, the filtration quality, and how to build your own cyclone. The Clearvue Cyclones follow his designs very closely.

Charley


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

My personal experience is that my planer and my jointer would almost be non functional without a good DC. I just could not get by with a shop Vac, but that's just my thinking and/or experience,

Jerry


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## MartinW (Jun 26, 2013)

Hi Esko,

with your workshop only just finished, this might still be an ongoing project.....
Since you mentioned, that some machines in your area are pretty expensive, and you better order them online anyway - have a look for the page of CycloneCentral in UK
They have kits for building your own cyclone - if it should be a cyclone.
Personally, I'd go with a Thien baffle / dust collector. For someone with your skills, you'd make one yourself in your shop in less than a day.
However - whether cyclone or Thien baffle or any other way of separation - keep in mind the volume of shavings and chips a thickness planer produces, and plan and think BIG to avoid choking of the separator. 'Cause there is only one thing worse than a planer without dust extraction, that's one with a choking dust extraction ....
Another approach could be to convert a normal DC by adding a Thien separator and some other changes - John Heisz (ibuildit.ca) put a good description online lately.

In any way - for now have a good start into the next year
Martin​


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> My personal experience is that my planer and my jointer would almost be non functional without a good DC. I just could not get by with a shop Vac, but that's just my thinking and/or experience,
> 
> Jerry


Wait a minute... Jerry, I thought you just bought a new Dewalt planer that has it's own evac blower that you fought with to keep the lid on your cyclone (so strong), even with your DC turned on?

So it seems to be moving more air than your cyclone... Curious how that planer non-functional without your DC?


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank's guys for your very good tips and link's. Without your help I would keep banging my head against gyproc walls.


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