# Coffins & Caskets



## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

I see that Rockler is selling a book with casket plans.

Has anyone tried this? If you did, did you encounter any serious problems making the casket or obtaining hardware?

__________________

I just read some of the reviews of the book and plans Rockler sells. Most folks said they were waste of money and could do as well just from a good photo.

So, not buying the book.

Thanks


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## freddy912 (May 20, 2011)

The business of building and selling caskets is an interesting subject for a woodworker. Years ago in Seattle I pursued the subject and found that the funeral homes and casket supply firms were amenable to having someone sell them a casket. Just depends on the price. After talking to a large chain funeral home and a regional casket supply I came up with a green light. I proposed to supply a wood and natural material casket for $500. Both said they would buy it. And, the numbers of caskets that are sold is quite significant. You have size, shape, sturdiness and material considerations and you don't need someone to give you a design. Talk to a funeral home and you will be surprised what they will tell you. They will buy it because if they don't, someone else will and take the edge away from them. The funeral business is largely a scam and people get caught up in the emotion and necessity of satisfying what they think others expect of them, but the business side of the funeral business is largely a con job. So, that is your customer base. Meeting their requirements is not so difficult. So, I recommend the first step is to talk to someone and listen to them tell you what their requirements are.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Glenn, there is a tremendous amount of overhead cost in the funeral industry. Do you supposed the home, equipment, hearse, flower car and supplies are free? I guarantee Mortuary school isn't cheap. It is an industry practice to sell funerals as a package. Keep in mind for the price it includes the legal work, labor and a fee for all the overhead. It's a business and they are not there to work for free. You are welcome to your opinion that it is all a scam. When your loved ones pass away contact me and I will be happy to provide you with detailed instructions on how to file a death certificate, legal requirements on body transport, and how to embalm the body. The surgical tools and supplies will only cost you about $28,000. Just be sure you have the time to attend a mortuary school for a degree and license. Maybe it isn't all a scam.


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

I too talked with a funeral director about this, (a guy I know and have done work for), and he also agreed to purchase from me should I choose to pursue this. He then showed me some of his, (sorry), absolutely beautiful caskets, one of which had a hair line, (literally, it was minute), crack. He then told me after a call to the casket company with in 24 hours he would have a new casket delivered to him. Then he asked me if I could provide that kind of service. He also pointed out that if while in internment a casket began to decompose, a phone call would get him a new casket and 3 helpers to move the body from the old casket to the new one. Lastly if anything should break, a handle, or maybe the bottom drops out, who carries the insurance on that? Not him, he said, "I'm not gonna lose my @$$" because your casket failed. Now Jack, do you still wanna build caskets? Actually I did, but after buying the lumber and looking at the work vs. the profit, maybe not so much anymore.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Right you are Jack! There is so much involved that people are unaware of.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

About 40 years ago, when I was living in Portland, Oregon, I met a guy who was making pine caskets and selling them either to the city, the county, or the state for burying John Does in. They were fairly plain with patterned paper hot glued to the inside. The shop he had was in a very low rent district and when he talked to me he never stopped working. I'm sure he wasn't going to get rich but he seemed to be enjoying what he was doing. As with just about anything, there are niche markets if someone is really interested.


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> About 40 years ago, when I was living in Portland, Oregon, I met a guy who was making pine caskets and selling them either to the city, the county, or the state for burying John Does in. They were fairly plain with patterned paper hot glued to the inside. The shop he had was in a very low rent district and when he talked to me he never stopped working. I'm sure he wasn't going to get rich but he seemed to be enjoying what he was doing. As with just about anything, there are niche markets if someone is really interested.


I 100% agree with the niche thing, but finding a niche and fitting into it is often quite the trick. here is a video on casket making, up close and personal these caskets look flawless, how can I compete at that level? These guys must be doing 20 or more an hour, I would take days. How Coffins/Caskets Are Made - YouTube


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

OK, I've been thinking about this. While a Batesville casket might cost a couple of grand (???) and competing with a factory made casket may be a problem for some, it seems that there are several things to consider. Here's what I have come up with so far (in no particular order):

1. How quickly can you make a coffin/casket

2. What degree of fit/finish do you put into one

3. How much can you really sell it for

4. How do you sell (justify the cost of) a handmade, good quality coffin

5. How much are your materials cost

6. How much time and effort have you put into a coffin

7. Do you have an outlet

I'm sure there are more considerations (these are off the top of my head).

Number one may or may not be a concern

Number two depends on who it's made for (cheap for county/more extravagant for a client

Numbers three thru six are probably the most important considerations

Number seven is problematic. Do you advertise on the internet, local paper, contact funeral homes?

Back to number four: if you are making a top quality product you sell it based on that. Perhaps explain that you understand that this is for a loved one and that's why you put as much care into making a quality coffin. Perhaps you justify a relatively inexpensive (but nice) coffin saying that it is unfortunate that we have to pay so much for such a product; surely the deceased wouldn't want you to spend thousands on something like a coffin. Do you pre sell to someone and try to grab their vanity (and money, after all that's the whole point) and induce them to buy the best you can produce. ?????? 

I don't know; just spit-balling. What do y'all think?


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

daveinvegas said:


> OK, I've been thinking about this. While a Batesville casket might cost a couple of grand (???) and competing with a factory made casket may be a problem for some, it seems that there are several things to consider. Here's what I have come up with so far (in no particular order):
> 
> 1. How quickly can you make a coffin/casket
> 
> ...


1) Well, 1 & 6 kind of go together; Number 2 gets tossed in as well since that's going to effect number 1

3) That's marketing strategy, but you may find that funeral homes will balk if you don't carry $100,000,000 in liability insurance. I carry 5 mil, and that's just as a contractor for residential. I can't imagine what a hundred mil goes for. Then there is the tax issue, at least for me... I was told that he wanted me to charge him tax so that he didn't have to get into charging it. This means I have to get set up with a tax number and start all that paper work, not too interested in that headache.

4) How good is your fit and finish? Once again I think that's marketing, and the angle you come at it from. But if I can walk into any funeral home in the city and find a prettier box for less, well, you do the math.

7) I think if you have a decent product, that you have an outlet at most if not all funeral homes. Certainly you can call and ask to make an appointment with several of them, shoot straight and tell them what you plan to do, and how much you want to sell for. Maybe make a 1/3 scale unit as a display, and as a practice run, (sort of see what you're getting into). Then report back here with your findings!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dave, Batesville is about as good as it gets. Just trying to match their casket seals would be expensive. Are you aware that there is an adjustable frame for positioning the body inside most caskets? Do you have a seamstress or upholsterer lined up to handle the pleated nylon silk linings and pillow? A source for the casket hardware? Very few people pre order a casket; it is usually a decision made by the spouse or family member at the time of death. The casket has to be available at that time. On top of all this casket size can be a real problem. Health problems can cause drastic size changes and there is no way to resize a casket once it is built. Unless you are planning on competing strictly for welfare caskets it is a very tough business.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Mike said:


> Dave, Batesville is about as good as it gets. Just trying to match their casket seals would be expensive. Are you aware that there is an adjustable frame for positioning the body inside most caskets? Do you have a seamstress or upholsterer lined up to handle the pleated nylon silk linings and pillow? A source for the casket hardware? Very few people pre order a casket; it is usually a decision made by the spouse or family member at the time of death. The casket has to be available at that time. On top of all this casket size can be a real problem. Health problems can cause drastic size changes and there is no way to resize a casket once it is built. Unless you are planning on competing strictly for welfare caskets it is a very tough business.


When I was much younger I did funeral escorts on motorcycle so I was around several funeral homes every day. I have seen Batesville caskets and understand they can't be beaten for quality so I wouldn't even try to compete with that.

So, I would probably be looking to make a classic toe-pincher type coffin and avoid real expensive caskets with all the hardware and inner springs.

I think my potential clientele would probably be, uhm, shall we say, a bit more eccentric than most.  

Since I have only just started researching this possibility, no, I don't have a seamstress lined up yet.

I recently made the acquaintance of someone (I sold him a coffin, of sorts) in the funeral business who has started to give me some advice about this. He's actually been encouraging me to try making coffins. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=340125

So, I'll keep researching and see what I find out. I'll keep y'all informed.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

OK, here's my mini coffin prototype. At least this is as far as I have gotten so far.

I'll make the next one out of oak. This one is just for practice. I hate making mistakes on good wood.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dave, it looks fine. It is hard to get a feel for the scale from the photo, rough dimensions? I mentioned in a sticky thread that I always build a prototype out of inexpensive materials like pine. This allows you to learn the process and any problems to look out for on your good material. It might be a good idea to use a ship lap joint for the lid like in the "Magic Box" project from the Router Workshop. That should save you some time and provide a real finished look.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

the inside dims are 15"x7.5"

I'm making this in response to another product I made.

It is going to be a coffee table pistol case. It will have a false bottom that can be lifted out to expose a storage space.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

I hate to admit this but sometimes I can be a little slow on the uptake.

Sometime I get a piece of wood that is not consistent in width or one edge is really rough cut when it was ripped.

Sometimes I cut a piece of wood with a band saw and the cut edge is not 100% straight and smooth.

I have been sanding these pieces up till recently.

A couple of weeks ago it finally dawned on me that I can use a fence and run the piece through my router to to get a really smooth, consistent width like on the trim pieces on the coffin in the photo above. Duh! 

It leaves such a nice smooth edge I don't have to sand it at all.

It's hard for an old guy to learn new stuff.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dave, we all live and learn.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Mike,

Thanks for the plans. I've been wanting to make a box and this should do the trick.

I'll have to change the dimensions to fit handguns.

If you've visited my web site you saw that everything I do is firearm related. This is mainly because it's what I know and I know where to find outlets for the items I make (unlike turning pens or bowls).

Until I was laid off three years ago I was a designer/drafter/drafting instructor but my hobby was firearms so I fell back on my hobby for work. It's been slow going. Odd thing is I've been doing more woodworking the last couple of months than working on firearms. 

Anyway, even if I am an old guy, I'm still learning how to do new things. I like that.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dave, you can apply the same method as used in the magic box when you build your coffin. I would allow for the thickness of the lid and add 1" for a side on the lid. This will make it comfortable to grip when removing the lid. The ship lap joint gives a secure fit that is super easy to make.


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

daveinvegas said:


> OK, here's my mini coffin prototype. At least this is as far as I have gotten so far.
> 
> I'll make the next one out of oak. This one is just for practice. I hate making mistakes on good wood.


Dave, I am curious, how are your angles joined together, how is the floor joined into the sides? This box HAS to stay together with 200 plus pounds inside of it. If it doesn't... :nono: That should definitely be apart of the prototype process.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jack, I think you missed the part about this being a gun case 15" x 7.5".


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Jack Wilson said:


> Dave, I am curious, how are your angles joined together, how is the floor joined into the sides? This box HAS to stay together with 200 plus pounds inside of it. If it doesn't... :nono: That should definitely be apart of the prototype process.


I don't think it will hold 200 pounds of pistols. I'm designing it to hold only one pistol, three or four pounds at most but with the false bottom and the hidden storage area I suppose it could hold ten pounds or so of ammo.

The sides are attached with pocket screws to the bottom and I plan to glue the sides to each other. The skirt/trim on the bottom outside edge will be glued on (or I might use brads) to cover the screws.

Anyway, if this box won't hold twenty pounds then I'm in trouble.


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## freddy912 (May 20, 2011)

A quick word on the lining of the proposed coffin. I was at a coffin manufacturing plant that had all these flesh complimenting colors of satin material and all the women sewing their hearts out. Ruffles and folds and all complicated and tricky. The same material can be used but use stiff foam sheets cut to fit liner with sprayed adhesive and material laid on flat like headliner in a car. Bottom piece holds sides in position, top and sides held in position by top solid molding on sides and ends. Sides and ends on outside made of plywood with outside surfaces of 1/8th paneling, oak, ect. All cemented together with adhesive. Paneling covers screws which hold sides and bottom and ends together with glue blocks/strip inside. Keep it simple. Glenn


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Mike said:


> Jack, I think you missed the part about this being a gun case 15" x 7.5".


Maybe I did, I'm not saying


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

freddy912 said:


> Paneling covers *screws* which hold sides and bottom and ends together with glue blocks/strip inside. Keep it simple. Glenn


Interesting! Over here we're not allowed to use metal screws or ironmongery if the coffin is to be cremated. In that case the whole thing is held together using glue and special fibre pegs. The handles are plastic, metal plated (of course!)

Regards

Phil


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## larryc (Mar 23, 2008)

With all of the negatives about building caskets, it seems that urns would be a better and less problematic product.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Larry

They now put you in a bag in Cal.and give you a GPS tag for a head stone,leave it to Cal. to do it right I don't get caskets at all , I cry to see them put that great looking box in the ground..  and a jar what's with that I don't get it...once your dead that's it ..why put you in a 5,000.oo box...who's going to see it.. 

"God is great, the Beer is good, and People are Crazy " 

===



larryc said:


> With all of the negatives about building caskets, it seems that urns would be a better and less problematic product.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Finally got around to finishing the coffin case



















Tung oil finish with red velvet interior.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That's a nicely built box Dave. You might be onto a niche market there. Have you thought about building one and have it dispalyed at your local gun shop?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

That turned out nice Dave.


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## JudgeMike (Feb 27, 2012)

*Casket/Gun Case*

This topic jogged my memory to an article I read years ago. Someone was building Caskets that doubled as Gun Cabinets and China Cabinets. Other items could be a grandfather clock, storage chest, coffee table, etc. During your living years you had a nice usable gun cabinet or piece of furniture, and when you die, you take it with you. The inner works were made to be easily removable I would assume. 

Now that I am getting older and closer to the inevitable, it's sounding like a pretty good idea. I could use a gun cabinet. It could also be justification for me buying some more new tools. My wife just loves it when I come up with ways to save money! 

I wonder if the funeral home would allow it. Might be like bringing your own six pack of beer into the local bar...


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> That's a nicely built box Dave. You might be onto a niche market there. Have you thought about building one and have it dispalyed at your local gun shop?


Thank you, I appreciate it.

But I thought I would display it in my gun shop. 

I have this one as well.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Very nice looking box. You should be able to sell a few of them with out much trouble.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

MEBCWD said:


> Very nice looking box. You should be able to sell a few of them with out much trouble.


Thanks much. I hope I can sell a few but I don't think I'll be making any more from oak. I made this one with material on hand. When I went back for more I couldn't find oak in the dimensions I used.

So, I'm making another in pine.

But the price I have in mind will probably turn some folks off. 

We'll have to see how it goes.


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## LinuxRandal (Mar 11, 2011)

This whole thread, made me think of the coffin bookcases, I saw in a book some years back (may even have been the back of a magazine). When I went looking to see what one actually looked like, I came across a guy who made his kitchen cabinets look like coffin's (I am no one was dying to buy that kitchen). Thank you for the chuckle as I forgot about that, and need to send it to a friend with a morose sense of humor.


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## daveinvegas (Nov 6, 2011)

Still keep finding things to do to it.


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