# Best way to set up a jig for LARGE finger/box joints?



## PhillyGuy (Mar 18, 2009)

Hello all. I'm still fairly new to this and doing more and more custom, high end woodworking, and still need lots of help with techniques etc. I posted a year ago about doing some wooden "cinderblock" shaped nightstands and received a TON of help from people on here. So i'm asking for some more now.

I want to make two hanging/floating modern bathroom cabinets/vanities out of walnut or some other hard cool looking wood. Haven't settled on the wood yet. But essentially, they are going to be square, with some white lacquered cabinet doors. Now the way I want to make the corner joints, is using finger/box joints. I've done some research and know how to set up a jig on a table saw. But I'm looking to make these joints about 2-3 square inches. Obviously, a router, or dado's don't cut that wide. 

Anyone have any suggestions for the best way to go about setting up a jig for this to make sure they are super tight and super accurate?

Also, I'm thinking about using this type of joint on some long boards. For example, on a 8'x2' board, on the short end, along the 2' side. How would I go about that? I haven't figured out what the best way to do that would be. 

Attached are some examples of the type of box joints I'm looking for. They're big, and used on long boards too.

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.

_Mike


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

It would be best to make a template that you could use with the router out of the table. I made a similar template for a project that I built a while ago. I made a template of the castle detail, and then cut it out 8 more times using a router. Since I wanted the rounded corners at the bottoms, I laid my template on the face of the workpiece. Since you want sharp corners on your box joints, you'll have to mount the template on the edge of your stock. 

You could use the table saw to make the template, and then rout it out using a large straight cutter.

Hope this helps,


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks Doug.

The castle you built looks pretty sweet.

Any tips or suggestions for setting up a good jig for the router for this project? I'm also thinking the wood I use will be around 1.75"-2" thick.

_mm


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

I while back I was wanting to make furniture with large box joints also.
I started making a special jig for it, but life side tracked me.
The easiest way would be to make a pattern the exact size of the joint and then use a pattern bit to cut the work piece. The pattern sits on top of the piece you are cutting and the bearing on the cutter runs on the edge of the pattern.

Link to pattern bit
MLCS Flush Trim and Shear Angle Flush Trim Router Bits


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## tigerhellmaker (Sep 13, 2009)

Maybe that will hellp.
Stots - Dovetail Template Master
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRP6IFcsuJ8&feature=channel


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Stots.com - Videos Katie Jig Tool System - Make Dovetail Joints Simply, Easily, and Quickly!

These sites have a couple of videos that show you how a similar jig would look and work.

Good luck,


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks guys. Those videos definitely do help.

However, they all show small box joints. I'm looking for something that's probably 2-3 inches. Actually, it'll be 2", if the board I'm using is going to be 2" thick. And they all show ways with having the board up vertically on its end and running it through the router/table saw that way. I'm not sure I'll be able to keep the board stable enough to run it vertically with how long i want the board to be.

I drew two diagrams. Do you guys think I'll need to be routing in the direction figure A is showing, or Figure B? If figure be, how will I get the corners to be sharp and square?

Also, whats the best way to keep the router from tipping if I'm going to have to route the 2" deep joints on the end of the board?

I know I have to do lots of trial and error with this, I'm just trying to find the most effecient and proven way of doing this. 

Do you guys know if there are templates for larger box joints out there?

Thanks.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Mike,

I'm fairly sure you're going to have to make the jig. You can use your table saw (I used a scroll saw, but perfectly square notches were not required in my project) to create your master template. Then you will need to use a straight bit like in figure A ti create the joints in your stock. The video and instruction links that were posted give you an example of the kind of jig you'll need to stabilize your router as you make the cuts.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Anyone consider a stagged glueup with 3/4" stock as a template. Then use the flush trim bit?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike 

I would suggest using the band saw for a ruff cut out and then use the bit(s) below with a template on the router table or hand router to clean up the cut outs and to make it true to the template.. 

1 pc 1/2"SH 2" Blade Top Bearing Flush Trim Router Bit - eBay (item 140395749309 end time Apr-06-10 19:34:30 PDT)

OR

1 pc 1/2" SH 3" Extra Long Flush Trim Router Bit - eBay (item 130380182871 end time Apr-09-10 14:46:35 PDT)

=======



PhillyGuy said:


> Thanks guys. Those videos definitely do help.
> 
> However, they all show small box joints. I'm looking for something that's probably 2-3 inches. Actually, it'll be 2", if the board I'm using is going to be 2" thick. And they all show ways with having the board up vertically on its end and running it through the router/table saw that way. I'm not sure I'll be able to keep the board stable enough to run it vertically with how long i want the board to be.
> 
> ...


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

These tabs are 2", I used some drawer sides I had laying around. Make them whatever size you need.

The template needs to be placed a little further back onto the backer board in order to make sure the bit cuts completely through. My mistake...

You can use a pattern bit if you have one the right size, or a straight cutter and template guides, but you'll have to oversize your openning with the appropriate offset

Hope this helps,


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

kp91 said:


> These tabs are 2", I used some drawer sides I had laying around. Make them whatever size you need.
> 
> The template needs to be placed a little further back onto the backer board in order to make sure the bit cuts completely through. My mistake...
> 
> ...


Doug,

I really like your concept as it guarantees the widths match. With this approach there's nothing to keep you from using a couple of block widths if you wanted patterned but not identical boxes.

It's the same concept as the the box joint attachment for a KatieJig, except for where the sections break.

Jigs and Guides-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood

I know I sure like mine!!


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## tigerhellmaker (Sep 13, 2009)

kp91 said:


> These tabs are 2", [...]


Clever


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 18, 2009)

Doug,

That's a great idea. Looks fairly easy too, to set up identical width blocks. 

Thanks.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

One consideration however.. you can to trim away the rounded corners with the project stock laid flat or cut it square with a long bit and the stock vertical, akin to the function of the katie jig.


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## Frank Lee (Nov 29, 2008)

Good looking job! ! Also very inovatve. Frank Lee Kingman Az.


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## cowtown_eric (Apr 30, 2010)

philly..

I think this has likely been posted before, but scope it out...

sorry I'm a newbie so I cannot post urls, but if you googled ".youtube.com/watch?v=yuFHurrWswQ]YouTube - Box joint jig with screw advance" you may just find of what I am trying to post....

meanwhile on the router side of things....I was so impressed with the simplicity of this jig that I just had to make one.

and I did....

It works ever so well.

Eric


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## vcooney (Apr 30, 2010)

This is some good information, thanks guys.

Vince


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

kp91 said:


> These tabs are 2", I used some drawer sides I had laying around. Make them whatever size you need.
> 
> The template needs to be placed a little further back onto the backer board in order to make sure the bit cuts completely through. My mistake...
> 
> ...


Awesome post Doug, it indeed helped!


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

My pleasure! Glad it helped.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

:help:Some months ago someone posted a youtube link to a guy attaching blocks of MDF to the ends of 2 x or 4 x stock to do just this. I've been looking but can't seem to herd enough brain cells together to find it. If anyone can find it, it sounds exactly what the OP is looking for. It is very similar to what Doug has except on a larger scale.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

jschaben said:


> :help:Some months ago someone posted a youtube link to a guy attaching blocks of MDF to the ends of 2 x or 4 x stock to do just this. I've been looking but can't seem to herd enough brain cells together to find it. If anyone can find it, it sounds exactly what the OP is looking for. It is very similar to what Doug has except on a larger scale.


I also recall seeing a youtube video on that subject> I think the key was for "Greene and Green" type joints.

I cannot seem to find it now.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

jw2170 said:


> I also recall seeing a youtube video on that subject> I think the key was for "Greene and Green" type joints.
> 
> I cannot seem to find it now.


Thanks James, that was the kick I needed:laugh:
Greene and Greene Style Finger Joints.WMV - YouTube

Only thing about it though, the video made a point of adding the paper shims to give the joints a little clearance which is OK for two or three joints. OP needs a dozen or more. Seems like that additional space needs to be accommodated in the size of the fingers.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

jschaben said:


> Thanks James, that was the kick I needed:laugh:
> Greene and Greene Style Finger Joints.WMV - YouTube
> 
> Only thing about it though, the video made a point of adding the paper shims to give the joints a little clearance which is OK for two or three joints. OP needs a dozen or more. Seems like that additional space needs to be accommodated in the size of the fingers.


That was the video I was thinking off - glad to be of assistance.....

It is now on my favourites..


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

*What Have I Missed?*

Thanks John for posting the helpful UTube video. 

I have a question re: the op's original post.
It appears that, from the examples posted, the joints were made by staggering the glue ups. Why wouldn't that work as well? No jigs or router needed. 
Am I missing something?


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## rjhorky (Apr 20, 2011)

I support the idea of bandsaw the rough outs, then using a pattern bit with bearing with a fixture like the attached. Fixture allows you to work from the same edge of each board via the removable spacer. Hope this helps.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I have tried the Green way and the band saw way and both suck but Doug's way works but do try both ways it's a fun way to make lots of fire wood.

The band saw way is a night mare most can't cut more than one strait cut not to say anything about cutting two and getting out of the pocket well we all know how that works..

The Green way is not to bad if you have a big hammer at glue up time , one or two joints not to bad but if you need more it's a night mare..by the way the paper insert sucks or to say sticks..I tried wax paper and it was still was a night mare.

==


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## prgl7 (Jun 26, 2011)

*box joint jig*

The large box jig would work like a dovetail jig. you would need to make the jig as wide as the project or be able to move it accurately along the piece. You would also have to make the jig so that you would be making end cuts, taking small cuts at a time using a pattern bit. the jig would need to be clamped to the work piece. Hope this is what you are needing.
George


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

*finger joint template*



kp91 said:


> These tabs are 2", I used some drawer sides I had laying around. Make them whatever size you need.
> 
> The template needs to be placed a little further back onto the backer board in order to make sure the bit cuts completely through. My mistake...
> 
> ...


Hi Doug, I want to make some 5/8 inch wide finger joints for a chest I plan to make. I am not sure i understand what is going on tin the last photo where you have screwed the MDF template to a fence and clamped it to the work. How would you then cut the joints on the table? Or didn't you?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

This is a Very Old thread. You will likely get a better response to your questions by starting a new thread and explain your needs better.

Charley


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Joe,

Using a jig that size I would probably cut it with a hand held router. The pattern bits in the picture would follow the template from above cutting the joints.

The only mistake I made in the picture was not positioning the template far enough back on the fence to allow the bit to finish the cut completely in the stock.

If you are doing smaller joints you could clamp the jig and fence to your stock and guide it over a template guide or bearing guided bit on your router table. 

I hope this helps a little,
Doug


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

The current issue of WoodSmith magazine has a sideboard project using large box joints, including an article on how they made their jig. I'll probably not build the project, but may build the jig sometime. I did appreciate Doug's version--pretty slick.

A few years ago, i built a chest, the sides were 3/4" white oak ripped to 3". Pieces alternated 1 1/2" short then glued up into sides. Created 3" box joints. Router jig would have been a TON easier!!

earl


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

5/8" fingers would be fast on a TS, a miter gauge attached jig with a 5/8" key, set 5/8" away from the edge of dado stack setup at 5/8".

Easy way to cut fingers longer than 3/4" is to have the key at 3/4", with a stop block set to cut from where the key starts, to the end of the socket's width (then it hits the stop). I do that for 6" or so long tabs, in what is referred more as an edge M&T, snap together kind of affair. >> _TT_TT_ << What I usually end up doing is cutting a piece of scrap as a gauge, to put the piece into the key, then set the gauge next to the stock, to set the stop block for that cutting operation. Make the first cut, pull the key back to cut beyond that, overlapping by 3/4"- steps for that first socket cut. 

Once you get the first socket cut, push the key back into place and then it will step on that key to repeat it, without the stop block..


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi Earl, Thanks I'd like to see that jig. Can you tell me what the current issue is , I am not a subscriber to that magazine. 

Joe


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi Mike,

I have made lots 1/4 inch finger joints that way in pieces 21 inches long that came out really nice using the Freud Box joint blade and a crosscut guide. But here the sides of my chest will be 38 inches long and I am thinking that is going to be a little challenging on the table saw without building a special sled which I was thinking router. How big is the fence on your sled or what do you use? 

Also in making the oversized joints you describe, normally for smaller joints I cut the first notch with the work agains the key, move the notch over the key, mate my two pieces and continue cutting them together. In your discussion do you butt the stop block against the key, make a cut remove the stop block move the piece over and widen it then replace the stop bloc to fit the notch and continue? 


Thanks ,Joe
If that works maybe I could use my Freud blade which makes 3/8 inch cuts with crisp corners to do the job. Although maybe just using the 5/8 dado would be easier.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Joesf said:


> Hi Earl, Thanks I'd like to see that jig. Can you tell me what the current issue is , I am not a subscriber to that magazine.
> 
> Joe


Hey Joe (gosh, reminds me of an old Jimi Hendrix song...),

Current Woodsmith is Volume 36/Number 215. Don't know if your local library might have a copy, but with respect to copyright laws i can't post a copy of the article here. At the same time, Woodsmith has a pretty extensive plan library for free, so you might find something on their site. Pretty good magazine, i subscribe to Shop Notes as well. Both have no paid advertising, but clearly get some products to "test". My wife subscribes to a sister magazine, Cuisine at Home, also ad-free and she is a fan of that mag as well. 

I have no affiliation, just hoping they'll read this and give me a free subscription extension (i already got a free plan for a table saw extension from them!!)

earl


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Hi Earl, 
Thanks for the info.

Joe


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Has anyone used the template master? The video looks like it is fairly useful. http://www.milescraft.com/products/complete-wood-joining/jigs/1218-dovetail-template-master/


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

If 38" long... I was thinking that something that big or longer, would have movement problems trying to keep the work steady over a jig.

In that respect, it might be better to mount the workpiece steady in a wood vise or clamped it to something solid...Then make a jig along the lines of a mortising jig, with an index on the bottom to index it along your cuts.... and use a free-hand rounter with a bushing inside that jig. Cut a slot, index then goes into that last slot... until the length is done.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Thanks, Thats a thought also. From my experience, I always had trouble mating the two sides fingers and slots unless i cut them together at the same time as the tiniest error accumulates so fast. I really can not see making a jig for the table saw. I thought maybe a long template clamped to the workpiece clamped down would work like the slotmaster fellow showed in his video. I think ill have more options with the router on this than the saw. 

I tried cutting 5/8 inch strips of plywood on my table saw to glue up in a staggered pattern to make a jig, but the strips were not exactly .625 at both ends so thats not going to work unless i can bet better results as even a couple of thousandths variable will add up. (The other option at this point is to make them 1 1/4 joints instead which will probably look ok too). That's how I got on to the template master idea. Anyway I don't think they are sold anymore. In the meantime I did make a nice crosscut sled for my contractor saw so I can get the sides real square.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

Did any of you use an offset router base when you routed your fingers with thee work vertically? David O Wade in the greene and greene movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHGuqXUI-eg)recommended it for stability. I have a Bosch 1617 and am thinking of making such a base. I think i can figure it out but thought Id ask what optimum measurements would be ?


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

I did a test run on 5 inches of 5/8 fingers made out of 1/2 inch like the David O Wade did in the movie but my fingers are smaller. However I removed most of the wood with a 1/2 inch template guide ( shopfox) and a 3/8 inch straight bit first and then finished up with a freud top bearing 1/2 inch bit. The stock 1617 base worked fine. So far so good. Thanks to Pat Warner for suggesting using the guided bit first.


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

*Single Blade Box Joint Jig*

With this Jig Is possible to create large joint of the fingers?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgyQJ8ZaXpY


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Posted in wrong thread


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## AUSSIE WOOD (Mar 9, 2015)

Leigh Industries have their D4R jig, use this with the Multiple Mortise and Tenon Jig. You can space the pins/fingers/knuckles where ever you want.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

My box joints came put real nice with the jig I made. Here are some photos.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

I made the body of the jig out of two prices of 3/4 inch plywood, fingers were mdf cut to 5/8 inch.


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## Joesf (Nov 27, 2010)

It came out pretty nice . The fingers fit well but some needed adjustment. Took a little work but all in all it was very satisfactory result.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sweet...


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Joesf said:


> My box joints came put real nice with the jig I made. Here are some photos.


Great job Joesf!


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Mike, if I wanted to make the cut that you describe I'd probably make something like this. Just clamp it on and make some dust, move guide block to recently evacuated spot, repeat just like a standard box joint jig. Note that the picture doesn't show the work piece, just jig and router.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

If 1-9/16" could work, there is a jig that will do that.

Woodhaven 4556 Portable Box Joint Jig : Box Joint Jigs



Gary


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