# Only One Miter Lock Setting



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm rather slow about somethings, but I just realized that there is only one vertical miter lock bit setting. The height of the bit must be set in accordance to the the thickness of the material that the cut is to be made in, but the position of the fence, is the same no matter what the thickness of the material is, I think. 

The Infinity set up gauge moves up and down with the bit when it is being raised or lowered with th hash mark for the fence setting on a constant vertical plane. Thus with the Incra LS set up a reference on the primary scale of the carriage can be set at a specifie setting so that the fience can be correctly set by referencing the pre-recorded mark on the scale on the carriage. Once done the set up gauge need not be used again.

If a person has a router lift such as the Incra or Jessem, goth are the same lift of course, that allows the height to be set precisely, the hash mark for height on the Infinity set up gauge can be used to simply raise the bit until it, the mark, matches the surface of the insert ring in the router lift plate. 

From that point on, you do no longer need the gauge. Each turn of the crank raises the bit .0625". A piece of material that is 3/8" thick has a mid point of of 3/16", and three turns of the crank raises the bit 3/16", 1/2" material requires four turns, 5/8" material requires five turns, 3/4" material six turns.


Now all of this is marveliousy theoretical as I write this, and will have to be tested to verify if my thinking is correct. I'll get back to report on it if the concept works or not in the real world, but I thnk that I am right.

I thought that I made a mistake one time but found out later that I was wrong. "Joke"

Jerry B.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jerry, you're making what, with the Infinity gauge is a simple procedure sound incredibly complex, enough to put newcomers off ever attempting lock mitre joints which you have previously made on the chest that you made. It is a wonderful joint, a bit tricky at first with several test cuts needed but with that gauge it becomes a simple easy set-up.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> Jerry, you're making what, with the Infinity gauge is a simple procedure sound incredibly complex, enough to put newcomers off ever attempting lock mitre joints which you have previously made on the chest that you made. It is a wonderful joint, a bit tricky at first with several test cuts needed but with that gauge it becomes a simple easy set-up.


The gauge is very simple to use for a normally sighted person, but if you do a lot of your woodworking by brale, sometimes you need a work around, hard for a normal person to grasp.


What I have described, to me anyway, seems to make the set up even simplier, just the way I see it.

Confession, I have recently found that my magnifying visor does allow me to see the gause much better. But as you know Harry I tend to make simple things more complex, I really don't want to cause anybody heart burn by my thinking and doing what you have pointed out. 

Not having to even look at the hash mark any longer is easier for me, seems like it's a step in the right direction to me, but that's just me. 

My dear friend Harry, as usual, if I don't do something your way, you criticize it due to your fast knowledge and experience that you are so well known for and admired. You also know that I am an experimenter and not always interested in doing things like everybody else does it.

It's easier for me to see the cursor on Incra's primary scale that to see the hash mark on the gauge, and by only having to see it one time for the height adjustment is easier for me than having to find the center of a workpiece and then try to line hash mark up on that center line. It's just so easy to crank the bit up to the proper height for any given thickness of material, just seems easier to me.

I do really like the miter lock joint and hope that those that are not familiar with it will eventually look into it.

Jerry B.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jerry, please take some photos when trying this new method of yours I'm sure that we are all interested in seeing how it works out, personally I think the way that you made the lock mitres for the chest will be found to be easier. I don't have a problem with your experimenting per se but it genuinely worries me that on this occasion new comers could be put off from trying this very good joint. You know that I have your best interests at heart.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> .......The height of the bit must be set in accordance to the the thickness of the material that the cut is to be made in, but the position of the fence, is the same no matter what the thickness of the material is, I think.


Nope, with the material vertically running along the fence, the fence must be place such that the bit is set for the thickness of the material as well.
http://www.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/SharpeningCenter/LockMiterBit.gif


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

harrysin said:


> Jerry, please take some photos when trying this new method of yours I'm sure that we are all interested in seeing how it works out, personally I think the way that you made the lock mitres for the chest will be found to be easier. I don't have a problem with your experimenting per se but it genuinely worries me that on this occasion new comers could be put off from trying this very good joint. You know that I have your best interests at heart.




Harry,
While helping Vesta with her back after starting this thread, I realized that I am wrong about the vertical set up, I'll wil get back after some experimenting, but I wish to re-track my statement about the setting the fence for the vertical cut.

Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The fence has to be set so that the bit cuts to the corner of the board without removing it. Since the angle of the cutter is 45* this will be the same whether the board is vertical or horizontal. The height adjustment is to place the tongue and groove in the middle so that they match and don't stagger the joint.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The fence has to be set so that the bit cuts to the corner of the board without removing it. Since the angle of the cutter is 45* this will be the same whether the board is vertical or horizontal. The height adjustment is to place the tongue and groove in the middle so that they match and don't stagger the joint.



Yes, I admitted my error, but am now thinking that the incremental changes in the fence setting can be accomplished with the scale on the carriage. Be patient with me until I play with this a bit. 

Jerry B.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> .......am now thinking that the incremental changes in the fence setting can be accomplished with the scale on the carriage......


If I'm reading you right, Jerry, then in theory if the fence and depth are set for 20mm thickness, then if you have 22mm thickness, the fence would move away from the cutter and up from the table by 1mm.

Is that what you're thinking?


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

vindaloo said:


> If I'm reading you right, Jerry, then in theory if the fence and depth are set for 20mm thickness, then if you have 22mm thickness, the fence would move away from the cutter and up from the table by 1mm.
> 
> Is that what you're thinking?


Angie,

Not being able to think clearly in metric figures I'm not following you for sure. 

Let me try this. Let's say that a person has the height of the bit and position of the fence set up to make a correct cut on a workpiece that is 3/8" thick.

If you want to change the setting for cuts in a half in piece of material you know that the half inch piece is 1/8" thicker than the 3/8". With that knowledge you should, in my thinking, raise the bit 1/16" higher and move the fence rearward by the same amount. To move to a 5/8" setting you would move the bit and the fence another 1/16" higher and further rearward. The same thing to go to a set up for 3/4" stock.

Right now I am having so much trouble with material feeding across the bit that I can't do any verification of what I talking about. I'll be back in the shop today working on the problem of the feed. I'm using the set up jig right now to try to get a good set up to start with.

Does my thinking on the set up make sense to you or not?

Jerry


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Yes Jerry, that's what I was saying. _In theory_ you move the fence half the thickness difference, and adjust the bit height the same. I keep saying _in theory_ as my logical mind says it is so, but I've not tried it.

I had no problem setting the height, running the material across the table flat, but when I tried the vertical cut there were chips of the material, that should have been left there, flying out and the cut material looked awful. I think the material may have had a bit of play up and down as it went across the cutter. I only have a cheap table ATM but I will have a another go at this, remembering to try and hold the material from vertical movement.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

vindaloo said:


> Yes Jerry, that's what I was saying. _In theory_ you move the fence half the thickness difference, and adjust the bit height the same. I keep saying _in theory_ as my logical mind says it is so, but I've not tried it.
> 
> I had no problem setting the height, running the material across the table flat, but when I tried the vertical cut there were chips of the material, that should have been left there, flying out and the cut material looked awful. I think the material may have had a bit of play up and down as it went across the cutter. I only have a cheap table ATM but I will have a another go at this, remembering to try and hold the material from vertical movement.



Angie,
It sounds like we may be about at the same points in our learning curves, what you describe sure does sound familiar.

I have, in the past had some very good results with cutting long cuts for corner styles for cedar chests. My problem seems to come and go. I recently purchased two sets of Jessem feather boards but until I can get the feed problem overcome the boards will not do me any good.

I'll get back after some shop time today I hope, but it's going to be a bit cold, so I may not get the shop that I am hoping for,

As you said, what I'm saying about the different set ups, is just a throry for now.

Jerry


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Angie,
> It sounds like we may be about at the same points in our learning curves, what you describe sure does sound familiar.
> 
> I have, in the past had some very good results with cutting long cuts for corner styles for cedar chests. My problem seems to come and go. I recently purchased two sets of Jessem feather boards but until I can get the feed problem overcome the boards will not do me any good.
> ...


Hmmmmmm........................velley inter....resting


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Herb Stoops said:


> Hmmmmmm........................velley inter....resting


It's to cold today for any investigation on the matter today, I'm sondering now if part of or not all of the problem is due to my feeding the workpiece against the grain instead of with it. This might explain the radical experience that I have had.

Jerry B.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> It's to cold today for any investigation on the matter today, I'm sondering now if part of or not all of the problem is due to my feeding the workpiece against the grain instead of with it. This might explain the radical experience that I have had.
> 
> Jerry B.


I have only used that joint for cross grain joints. Never tried to do linear joints with it. 

Herb


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

My attempts were cross grain as in making the side of a drawer, which is why I actually bought the bit in the first place. My table has a large opening for the bit to come through and the filler rings (can't think of the right word) are plastic, so when they're in the hole, they sit slightly lower than the table and have a little flex in them, thus the reason I think the material is not supported enough.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

vindaloo said:


> Yes Jerry, that's what I was saying. _In theory_ you move the fence half the thickness difference, and adjust the bit height the same. I keep saying _in theory_ as my logical mind says it is so, but I've not tried it.
> 
> I had no problem setting the height, running the material across the table flat, but when I tried the vertical cut there were chips of the material, that should have been left there, flying out and the cut material looked awful. I think the material may have had a bit of play up and down as it went across the cutter. I only have a cheap table ATM but I will have a another go at this, remembering to try and hold the material from vertical movement.


I watched a video on youtube where he made a sled to fit on top of the fence and the piece would be clamped to that. He set the piece on the flat part of the table, clamped it to his sled and then slid it across the cutter. He also used a featherboard to hold the lower part of the piece against the fence...

I will look again for the video and then post the link...

Nick

EDIT...found it...start it at 3 mins...that's where he shows his sled and discusses the advantages...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By1z-AI9PhU


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

vindaloo said:


> My attempts were cross grain as in making the side of a drawer, which is why I actually bought the bit in the first place. My table has a large opening for the bit to come through and the filler rings (can't think of the right word) are plastic, so when they're in the hole, they sit slightly lower than the table and have a little flex in them, thus the reason I think the material is not supported enough.


It is essential that if the insert isn't dead level with the table, then it must be a touch HIGHER, NEVER lower. it is the level of the wood as it passes the bit that determines the cut. As you can see in the shots, I often make zero clearance discs which can vary in thickness so I make celluloid rings to bring up the height. I've also included a shot showing the usefulness of a simple tall fence, those with all the bells and whistles don't guarantee first class end results.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> It is essential that if the insert isn't dead level with the table, then it must be a touch HIGHER, NEVER lower. it is the level of the wood as it passes the bit that determines the cut. As you can see in the shots, I often make zero clearance discs which can vary in thickness so I make celluloid rings to bring up the height. I've also included a shot showing the usefulness of a simple tall fence, those with all the bells and whistles don't guarantee first class end results.


Harry,is that Durden router table yours? It looks just like the MCLS MLCS Heavyweight and Precision Router Tables

That I just got and am putting together right now.

Herb


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Herb, it's sold around the world under many different brand names, did yours come with this hi-tech looking but useless fence?


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Nickp said:


> I watched a video on youtube where he made a sled to fit on top of the fence and the piece would be clamped to that. ........EDIT...found it...start it at 3 mins...that's where he shows his sled and discusses the advantages...


Thanks Nick, I've saved the video but I think it might be more than my basic table can cope with. When I say basic table I do mean basic. Eventually I'll have a better one but I can at least give this jig a go.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

harrysin said:


> It is essential that if the insert isn't dead level with the table, then it must be a touch HIGHER, NEVER lower..........


Insert! that's the word. Thanks Harry 

My _inserts_ are clip in and the ridge they sit on is about 1/8th inch. They're also only about 2mm thick. As said, I will have another go and see if I can come up with something, even if it's a 6mm circle of HDF with a hole in the centre the same size as the bit, then that will be higher than the table, and support the material across the bit.

Bit chilly out there ATM, 3C, even my other half has started to realise why I am looking at propane heaters


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That temperature might give you a clue why we moved from Manchester to Australia in 1964! Regarding height of the insert, it mustn't be more than a smidgen higher than the table or the wood could rock like a see- saw


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Herb, it's sold around the world under many different brand names, did yours come with this hi-tech looking but useless fence?


I've only just looked at the one you have, obviously from the same factory but mine has a sliding front Aluminium section which I have utilised a few times in the twelve or so years that I've had it so it cant be that important!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> I've only just looked at the one you have, obviously from the same factory but mine has a sliding front Aluminium section which I have utilised a few times in the twelve or so years that I've had it so it cant be that important!


If you scroll down the page you will see the one like you have and the sliding table one I bought. After i bought mine I found that Grizly has it too but without the air assist lift and free shipping.
Yesterday I assembled the fence and found the same thing you mentioned. Not good. I will put a continuous wooden fence or extrusion in front to tie the two together.
The hold downs also are "Third World" and will toss them and come up with a better ones, maybe a toggle clamp set up on the miter gauge. 
I didn't use the funky clamps to attach the router motor either,thru bolted the router motor and drilled a hole for the above the table lift wrench.

Herb


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mine didn't come with gas struts and I had great difficulty raising the heavy table so changed bits from underneath. Eventually an after market gas strut kit became available but soon after fitting it I changed routers to a Triton TRA001 which allows bit change from above, I then fitted a MUSCLECHUCK which as you can see, really pops out of the table!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Mine didn't come with gas struts and I had great difficulty raising the heavy table so changed bits from underneath. Eventually an after market gas strut kit became available but soon after fitting it I changed routers to a Triton TRA001 which allows bit change from above, I then fitted a MUSCLECHUCK which as you can see, really pops out of the table!


That looks good, Harry, I haven't got the Muscle Chuck yet, I have a hard time getting the second wrench on the bottom nut,and have to reach under the back of the table to make it. Be glad when the MuscleChuck comes. I really like the table solid as a rock and quieter too. I am going to build a fence like yours all that "precision" garbage looks nice, but takes up a lot of room and is clumsy to use. I spent 2 days mounting the motor, I couldn't get those clamps to stay tight and the motor would shift off center. So I bolted thru the table so I could use the lift behind the fence,that was a mistake so I had to redrill the holes to raise it in front of the fence.
I think I will like it once I get it setup like I want it.

Herb


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