# Router speed control



## woodtony (Jul 30, 2010)

i noted that there are few router whom offer variable speed and others are just 1 kind of speed. as newbie, i wonder:

1. what is the different with speed control and non?
2. what are the advantages and disadvantages? (for a normal user)
3. under what situation or project that u need to have speed control router?

have a nice day.

tony


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## DavidF (Aug 19, 2010)

Variable speed is a must! If you consider that a 50mm slotter's circumference is travelling far faster then say a 6mm straight bit's circumference and it must be slowed down or it will overheat and burn the wood.

I'm quoting from Bill Hylton's "Guide to the router table". He says that the maximum safe speed is 130 mph. A 3.5 inch bit spinning at 22,000 rpm has an edge moving at 228 mph.

So unless you are always going to be using small diameter bits don't buy a single speed machine.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

woodtony said:


> i noted that there are few router whom offer variable speed and others are just 1 kind of speed. as newbie, i wonder:
> 
> 1. what is the different with speed control and non?
> 2. what are the advantages and disadvantages? (for a normal user)
> ...


This goes in a whole bunch of directions, all at the same time.

The dominant criteria is the bit. David nailed it. The tip of the outside of the cutting edge is where everything is happening. Too fast and the bit spins and doesn't get moved fast enough so it sits and burns. Remember, that at 25,000 rpm that's 50,000 "cuts" per minute. Can you move your router fast enough to get a clean cut each time without overloading the motor?

The speed control (either internal or external) is the method used to control the speed of a router motor and subsequently the bit. The larger the bit, the more horsepower it takes to push that bit through the workpiece but the bit must work at a slower speed. Here's where I have a problem. Is a large bit balanced the same way a small one is? What happens when a large bit is overspun? Does a high-quality large bit spin faster than a cheaply made one? I have several large bits, some good quality and one really cheap one. The biggest expensive one whines. The biggest cheap one grumbles.

The speed control actually takes on two aspects. You have your starting speed. This is the maximum speed that your bit is intended to run at. Then you've got your operating speed. This is controlled by your feed rate. Too fast and you bog down the motor, too slow and the bit doesn't get enough of a bite and it sits there and burns the cut.

Listen to your router. It will tell you when it's working proficiently. Push it too hard and the tone will lower. Maybe as much as an octave. Let it sit and it will not change at all but will burn the cut. (it must be said that dirty bits also cause burning as do dull ones.) 

Most production level routers (> 3HP/2100W) have built-in variable speed controls. Porter-Cable is the one exception. They have some fixed speed models and some single speed models on their 3 1/4 HP lines. This is a pretty good explanation why Porter-Cable proponents thrust PC's low power models as a direct competitor to the Production Routers of other manufacturers.

Makita is renowned for having produced 4-pole motors for hand power tools but I can't find information on which models have that motor. This makes a very powerful motor and a more compact package. Variable speed on 4-pole routers is more complicated but the result can be excellent == more power at lower speeds.

Consider that variable speed gives you access to a broader selection of router bits and a larger number of methods of using a router. Roughly half of the router methods use variable speed.

This isn't going to help a bit but maybe it can be a basis for expanding this discussion and developing some real answers.


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## woodtony (Jul 30, 2010)

Firstly, thank you to David and Ron (Allthunbs) on your feedback.

here, i am little bit of confusion. as per according to David's comments. Variable speed is a must. But as per Ron's, it is not nescessaary and all depands of the bit sizes. (If i am not wrong of understanding).

Beside, i have checked others that its also depands on your hand speed, movement of the router over to the work piece. Can we have consistency of speed of movement, whether the router is place on table or plung type? Is it true? this will also affecting the comments of Ron's.

Please need to enlighten more information. Thank you.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

woodtony said:


> Firstly, thank you to David and Ron (Allthunbs) on your feedback.
> 
> here, i am little bit of confusion. as per according to David's comments. Variable speed is a must. But as per Ron's, it is not nescessaary and all depands of the bit sizes. (If i am not wrong of understanding).
> 
> ...


Hi Tony - No need to complicate it to much. I attached a speed guideline chart published by infinity tool and displayed at the NewWoodworker.com site. Speed control is fundamentally governed by bit diameter and, to some extent, length. Don't let length throw you a curve, it's just common sense. A long bit, say 2" or so, will amplify any runout of the armature, chuck or bit when brought up to 20+K rpm. Any bit 2" or longer I drop to about 16K and reduce feed rate accordingly. That's per MLCS published guidelines. In many cases, especially with name brand bits, there will be a max speed spec on the packaging.
Any discussion on motor loading or straining would have more to do with stock density, depth of cut and feed rate than bit speed. JMHO. keep it simple


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## zerodyn (Aug 30, 2010)

This isn't going to help a bit but maybe it can be a basis for expanding this discussion and developing some real answers.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Tony,

Let me try restating what others here have said a little differently.

A single speed router has one speed: high. High speed is used with small diameter bits.

Variable speed routers permit you to slow them down for handling larger bits, if you think you'll want to use them. Most people will want this feature although it is not technically necessary, depending upon your usage.


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## woodtony (Jul 30, 2010)

Once again, a big thank you to John, Zerodyn and Jim of your feedback.

Apparently, i had checked at my local place of their router. none of the router offer veriable speed, e.g. Makita, Bosch, Maktec. Even the mini router or trimmer also offer only 1 type of speed. For your information, i am living in Malaysia (South East Asia).

Beside, i am surprise that the DIY are not popular here. So, resulted the manufacturer do not bring in the wide range of power tools. Only 1 or 2 model for the category. so, its give me limited choices.

Apparently i am looking at the Makita 3612BR 1/2" Plunge type Router (so called latest or available model). The speed is 23000rpm. i wish to convert to table router, which i need to build my own router table for it. OMG :sad:

will this going to be my nightmare starting point -- ??????:'(


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## woodtony (Jul 30, 2010)

If i intended to use the one speed. will it be a problems to a newbie. what cautions or advice from you all, master woody.......

noted that the Makita 3612BR do accept the bit for 1/2 and 1/4. believe that the speed do not affect the bit size???? :blink:


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

woodtony said:


> If i intended to use the one speed. will it be a problems to a newbie. what cautions or advice from you all, master woody.......
> 
> noted that the Makita 3612BR do accept the bit for 1/2 and 1/4. believe that the speed do not affect the bit size???? :blink:


Hi Tony - 3612 looks to me to be an excellent table router. I couldn't find out whether that machine is equipped with a soft start feature or not. If not an external speed control could be added although availability of those in Malaysia may also be an issue. The speed control is something of a safety issue when running larger diameter bits. There are several Makita fans here on the forum, perhaps one could jump in with some better information.


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## rweerstra (Feb 9, 2010)

According to the postings, the Makita 3612BR has soft start but no speed control built in. It is well liked. They also comment that an external speed control works well with that unit. Source, Amazon comments.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Thanks Ron, John and Jim. I didn't know where to go with this one. This is one of those instances where a mother tongue field might come in handy.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> Tony,
> 
> Let me try restating what others here have said a little differently.
> 
> ...




hi jim, i know your an engineer, but if a variable speed router offers you to slow the speeds down to several different speeds, then , in my humble opinion, it has several speeds.

i know there are some people with single speed routers and thats fine, but we all know different speeds are important and a necessity for larger diameter bits as john has shown in his speed table. 

i think you were trying to simplify it.

i just didnt want a novice to think he could use a single speed router for larger bits, this could be very dangerous and think a novice should know that.

he seemed to think feed rate would compensate for speed and that sounds dangerous to me.

just my humble opinion.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

levon said:


> hi jim, i know your an engineer, but if a variable speed router offers you to slow the speeds down to several different speeds, then , in my humble opinion, it has several speeds.
> 
> i know there are some people with single speed routers and thats fine, but we all know different speeds are important and a necessity for larger diameter bits as john has shown in his speed table.
> 
> ...


No Levon, thank you. When I typed "variable" the first time I intended to type "single". That typo has now been corrected in my earlier post.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

ok Jim

that clears up everything now. 

i just wanted to try and keep him safe.


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

I happen to have 12 Makita 3612br's and not one of them has a soft start or internal variable speed control, mind you they were all purchased in the early 1980s. They did however come with 1/4, 3/8 and of course the 1/2" collets. I have one external speed control attached to the router table and as I can only use one router at a time I have one variable speed control attached to the work bench. These routers were used in a professional setting for many years and have routed everything from hard and soft woods to aluminum, plastics and castible epoxies and urethanes, and they are still going strong after close to thirty years. In short you will never find a better router. More bells and whistles perhaps on some , but never a more dependable machine.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Sounds sweet, Swallow!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Swallow said:


> I happen to have 12 Makita 3612br's


If I could use 12 Makita 3612brs I'd be drooling and trying to figure out exactly where 1068 meters from the border were exactly. I figure I could be across the Ontario border before you missed them. Lucky you, I don't have space for 2 more, let alone 12. ;-)


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> If I could use 12 Makita 3612brs I'd be drooling and trying to figure out exactly where 1068 meters from the border were exactly. I figure I could be across the Ontario border before you missed them. Lucky you, I don't have space for 2 more, let alone 12. ;-)


 Well the fact is that I really don't have use for 12 routers either, but as it is I inherited them when the family pattern shop shut down along with a bunch of other heavy equipment that I have NO idea of what I am eventually going to do with. Of one thing I am sure and that is that these massive Oliver machines are NOT going to end up in the scrap yard like so many do, not on my watch at any rate. So now for the time being they just sit in storage.

So whilst I don't have a good reason to have 12 Makita routers I don't have any reason to get rid of them either. I have one in a vertical table ,one in a horizontal table and one for bench work, the rest just wait in the wings and will last me for the rest of my life.

And by the by the 1068 meters is south west of Winnipeg some 80 miles.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

> Of one thing I am sure and that is that these massive Oliver machines are NOT going to end up in the scrap yard like so many do, not on my watch at any rate. So now for the time being they just sit in storage.


Those Olivers must be in some storage. They look heavy enough to require specially constructed concrete floors. That's some heavy stuff. The lathe looks like a similar design to the oneway. Neat!



> So whilst I don't have a good reason to have 12 Makita routers I don't have any reason to get rid of them either. I have one in a vertical table ,one in a horizontal table and one for bench work, the rest just wait in the wings and will last me for the rest of my life.


My experience is that the grease in the bearings dries out. If you can seal them somehow that would go a long way to ensuring future service. Perhaps "ZZ" (?) bearings?



> And by the by the 1068 meters is south west of Winnipeg some 80 miles.


That's fine to say but that's big country out there. There's not much difference between 80 and 800 miles -- just time. When I was in the office in Regina I would look out the window on the 2nd floor and see the Hotel room I stayed in the night before, in Winnipeg. Where I am right now, I can't see the forest for the trees and there isn't a flat piece of non-farmland anywhere to be seen. Even some of the farms are more than vertically challenging. I'm in the Laurentians. 

We live in a huge country.


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## woodtony (Jul 30, 2010)

Thanks John.

I will tried to check it out the whether their do have the speed control gadget or not. but i would not put it too much/high hopes on it. 

Will it a problem to operate on a single speed of router?

Secondly, what is the function for the soft start, may i asked?


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

woodtony said:


> Thanks John.
> 
> I will tried to check it out the whether their do have the speed control gadget or not. but i would not put it too much/high hopes on it.
> 
> ...


Hi Tony - I don't see a problem until you into the larger bits, greater than 1" diameter. Larger than that, I'm not sure. Maybe take lighter cuts a higher feed rate? Just the sound of one whizzing around is kind of unnerving. Maybe someone else with more experience can weigh in on running large bits when speed control is not an option. 
As far as soft start goes, I'm not sure I understand all I know about that. It's an electronic feedback control that brings the motor up to speed at a controlled rate. Just how it does that is out of my league. Same with the speed control itself, I'm not real clear how it works but I think it is some type of cycle stealing where there are a reduced number of AC cycles..... Cassandra .... where are you????

Sorry to beg off like this but I'm getting a bit out of my depth here


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just my 2 cents.. 

" soft start " keeps the router from jerking/jumping out of your hands  it's like dropping the clutch on your car it will jump off the line with the soft start, it's like letting the clutch out nice and easy... you can't control the true speed of the motor so the soft start takes over the job with a chip in the speed control device.

Many run the routers at to high of a speed,,,no need to spin the bit at 25,000 rpm's. to get a nice job , most bits are made to put the profile in one pass but it's best to make two or more ..many say they get burn marks that comes from slow feed rate and the bit spining to fast or too slow for the type of stock..you need to think about just a little bit, 8,000 rpms is fast in any ones book, not to say anything about taking the bejesus out of using the router and make it a fun tool to use.. 
At one time speed = power but now with the new speed control device you are in full control of the router..


========



The speed control device is a real plus, you will not burn/cook your bits up the norm.
speed = heat..


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

jschaben said:


> Cassandra .... where are you????


On vacation. At least I was until _Gitchigamee_ decided to play nasty. I was camping on the eastern shore of Lake Superior. Last night we had some nasty weather --rain storm followed by a high-wind storm followed by rain-and-high-wind storm. With the rest of my vacation time forecasted for rain, I decided to cede defeat this year.

As for soft-start and variable speed, there are multiple ways of achieving the effects. Which way one uses depends on the type of motors.

With AC induction motors ("squirrel cage"), the usual technique to take the sine-wave voltage and notch out a portion of each half-cycle.

Another technique is like John mentioned, remove some of the cycles during the start-up phase of the run.

With universal (AC-DC) and DC motors, one can also control the current through the armature coils. 

There is also the mechanical way of controlling speed on commutated motors (DC and universal.) By changing the position of the brushes relative to the poles of the stator windings, one can alter the torque and speed.

I like what Bobj3 had to say, at one time speed = power. But now, I equate speed = burn capability. No need to use more speed than required to do the job. Extra speed can lead to more burning and more tear-out.

Cassandra


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Cassandra:



Cassandra said:


> On vacation. At least I was until _Gitchigamee_ decided to play nasty. I was camping on the eastern shore of Lake Superior. Last night we had some nasty weather --rain storm followed by a high-wind storm followed by rain-and-high-wind storm. With the rest of my vacation time forecasted for rain, I decided to cede defeat this year.


Shoot the travel agent. If you travel between the Soo and Wawa and you don't have precipitation south of Pancake Bay, you'll have it north of Pancake Bay. All you needed to do was go to the other side of the Bay. ;-)



> As for soft-start and variable speed, there are multiple ways of achieving the effects. Which way one uses depends on the type of motors.


But, the sum total of the effect is not to wrench the router out of your hands during startup. 



> No need to use more speed than required to do the job. Extra speed can lead to more burning and more tear-out.


Hence the requirement to test first. :sold:


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## Swallow (Jan 13, 2010)

I wonder what folks used to do back in the dark ages, Yuh know way back in time before they had all these new fangled gadgets like speed control and soft start on their routers. Musta had different wood or sumthin.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Cassandra:
> 
> Shoot the travel agent. If you travel between the Soo and Wawa and you don't have precipitation south of Pancake Bay, you'll have it north of Pancake Bay. All you needed to do was go to the other side of the Bay. ;-)


Why would I want to shoot myself? 

Now I know where I have to change things to improve my success rate at camping.

Anyways, it gives me an excuse to get back to woodworking. Also, the new "campsite" has more amenities.

As the saying goes,_ "When life deals you lemons, make lemonade._ " 

Cassandra


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## DavidF (Aug 19, 2010)

Well if you can't get a variable speed router then you are stuck with only using relatively small diameter bits. i.e. no slotters or large dado cutters.

That's actually not a problem as you can do a lot with straight bits, cut slots for instance. A wide dado can be cut, just do it in multiple stages.

Don't be too daunted about making your own router table. I made my own out of some MDF and 10mm perspex. I even made my own router lift using the fence rods that came with the router along with a large eye bolt. It works brilliantly.

David


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

DavidF said:


> Well if you can't get a variable speed router then you are stuck with only using relatively small diameter bits. i.e. no slotters or large dado cutters.
> 
> That's actually not a problem as you can do a lot with straight bits, cut slots for instance. A wide dado can be cut, just do it in multiple stages.
> 
> ...


Hi David:

Your first statement isn't actually correct. If one has a fixed-speed router with no soft-start, then one can add-on a after-market speed control module, external to the router. (This has been discussed in other threads on The Router Forums.)

Happy to see that I am not the only one who isn't committed to adding an after-market router lift. Did you use a commercially-available plate to mount the lift/router to the table?

Cassandra


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## DavidF (Aug 19, 2010)

*Lift*



Cassandra said:


> Hi David:
> 
> Your first statement isn't actually correct. If one has a fixed-speed router with no soft-start, then one can add-on a after-market speed control module, external to the router. (This has been discussed in other threads on The Router Forums.)
> 
> ...


Hi Cassandra,

sorry to take so long to reply, I've been busy elsewhere. The only thing I bought for my router table / lift was the cheapest plunge router I could find. It's bright red and probably made in Taiwan. It got christened "Lil' red router".

The rods that come with the side fence had an axial threaded hole. I found bolts to fit and drilled through the perspex. Next I machined flats on the side at the other end. A piece of wood spanned the bottom ends with bolts passing through recessed nuts onto the flats. A large eyebolt mounted vertically also going through a recessed nut completes the arrangement. One full turn = 0.8mm. Perfectly smooth and reliable.

Why the cheapest router? I had never used one before and didn't know how I would get on with it. As it is, I loved it. I now have a decent Bosch plunge router and a Dremel with a router attachment for those little jobs. As for the "Lil' red router" it's still going strong, not really powerful enough but it'll do for a while yet. Sometimes cheap is good, not usually but sometimes.

I always try to make things rather than buy them. My Mitre table is home made. A cheap (again) circular saw mounted upside down on MDF with a fence running on T-track.

Both of the above DO run through big red emergency off buttons.

I don't have a planer so I made a planer sled for the Bosch router. It works well but takes a while to do large areas.

How did you do your lift?


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi David:

Welcome to the forums!

There are several posts in http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/22650-shop-built-router-lift.html that show how I approached the building of the lift. 

The only thing not in that thread is the replacement locking mechanism, which I am still working on. The long half-nut (half a 3/8" coupler) has proven too rough and the mechanism is too unreliable to use -- it keeps jamming against the threaded rod. I'll post information on that thread when I have completed the replacement.

Cassandra


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Speeds vary from 8000 to a max of about 30,000 RPM for trimmers. Air routers run up to 45,000 RPM. The best speed for a cutter depends on its diameter and length, the balance of the bit, the integrity (newness, bearings, rotational equilibrium, collet etc.) and size of the router, and the waste (how much routed/pass). Small cutters (~1-1/2" in length or diameter) can run up to 25K if they don't vibrate. If they do, they should run at a speed below which the vibration occurs or not at all. Bigger cutters should be tested for their best speed starting at the minimum speed and on scrap. Begin the cut at the desired fence or cutter projection positions. The best speed for efficiency and safety will have to be determined experimentally. Experience is your best ally; the answer is not trivial. Don't expect to run before you walk. Routing with big cutters and no experience is risky business; approach it cautiously and stepwise. I have been called to address the consequences of this mismatch (as an expert witness!)


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## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

From the Porter Cable model 7519 manual which is a 21,000 RPM motor:
*CAUTION* DON’T USE router bits with a diameter in excess of 2-1/2"
except when using Model 75182 motor set for either
10,000 or 13,000 RPM. Router bits with a diameter up to 3" may be used
with the 75182 motor operating in the 10,000 or 13,000 RPM speeds.
Router bits with a diameter up to 3-1/2" may be used with the 75182 motor
operating in the 10,000 RPM speed.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Robert:



oldhippie1951 said:


> From the Porter Cable model 7519 manual which is a 21,000 RPM motor:
> *CAUTION* DON’T USE router bits with a diameter in excess of 2-1/2"
> except when using Model 75182 motor set for either
> 10,000 or 13,000 RPM. Router bits with a diameter up to 3" may be used
> ...


My M12V goes down to 8,000 rpm and with big bits, even that is fast.


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## esvipron (Sep 1, 2009)

You can also buy a separate speed control box for $25 dollars, just plug in the router and move the dial to the speed you need, and you can use it with any router you have.


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## dougop (Jul 2, 2010)

Unless you are using your router with only very small diameter bits, I cannot overstate how important a variable speed router is !! I use three routers in my shop, and all of them get turned down to much under 20,000 revs most of the time . Whether it's my Triton under my cast iron table, the PC on my WR900, or my Dremel trimming a door, the variable speed control is a MUST !!


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## brucenadams1 (Oct 6, 2010)

To contol the router RPM's I use two different methods. The older method is a variable voltage transformer. It works, but it reduces the router's RPM's by reducing the voltage. The new controller is a Pulse Width Modulator (PWM). The voltage is always the same. The period of time it is applied to the router is varied from OFF to about 95% of each cycle. The torque, however, remains about the same from 5% to 95% of each cycle.

The PWM controller can be purchased as a retail item or if you are handy with electronics, there are many kits available. Usually the kits include the printed circuit board, all components and easy to follow instructions.


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## Hotz (Oct 7, 2010)

Hi.

I have router with speed control (B&D), I will adapt bench closed
I want to use external speed control .... there may be conflict with two speed control (original / upgraded)

Thanks

*Hotz*

****************************************************************
olá, tenho router com controle de velocidade (B&D), vou adaptar bancada fechado
quero usar controle de velocidade externo.... pode haver conflito com dois controle de velocidade (Original/adaptado)

Obrigado


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

A few years ago, I had a Freud plunge router quit on me. Just for fun, I decided to strip the armature down to the bare shaft and I put a small pulley on it and hooked it up with a v-belt to a 3450 rpm 1 hp electric motor I had sitting around. It is only turning around 10,000 rpm but it works great, even with small bits. At that speed it never burns the wood and yet still makes surprisingly smooth cuts. Being able to go slower is good and from my experience it is easier to sand out rough spots than it is burned spots.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Charles

It sounds like you make your own shop made shaper that's just about what they turn and setup with a 3450rpm motor..the norm..but it's a far cry from a good router table setup..been down that road also with the shaper... 


=========


Cherryville Chuck said:


> A few years ago, I had a Freud plunge router quit on me. Just for fun, I decided to strip the armature down to the bare shaft and I put a small pulley on it and hooked it up with a v-belt to a 3450 rpm 1 hp electric motor I had sitting around. It is only turning around 10,000 rpm but it works great, even with small bits. At that speed it never burns the wood and yet still makes surprisingly smooth cuts. Being able to go slower is good and from my experience it is easier to sand out rough spots than it is burned spots.


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## zerodyn (Aug 30, 2010)

The speed control (either internal or external) is the method used to control the speed of a router motor and subsequently the bit. The larger the bit, the more horsepower it takes to push that bit through the workpiece but the bit must work at a slower speed. Here's where I have a problem. Is a large bit balanced the same way a small one is? What happens when a large bit is overspun? Does a high-quality large bit spin faster than a cheaply made one? I have several large bits, some good quality and one really cheap one. The biggest expensive one whines. The biggest cheap one grumbles.

The speed control actually takes on two aspects. You have your starting speed. This is the maximum speed that your bit is intended to run at. Then you've got your operating speed. This is controlled by your feed rate. Too fast and you bog down the motor, too slow and the bit doesn't get enough of a bite and it sits there and burns the cut.

Listen to your router. It will tell you when it's working proficiently. Push it too hard and the tone will lower. Maybe as much as an octave. Let it sit and it will not change at all but will burn the cut. (it must be said that dirty bits also cause burning as do dull ones.)
ed hardy clothes
Most production level routers (> 3HP/2100W) have built-in variable speed controls. Porter-Cable is the one exception. They have some fixed speed models and some single speed models on their 3 1/4 HP lines. This is a pretty good explanation why Porter-Cable proponents thrust PC's low power models as a direct competitor to the Production Routers of other manufacturers.


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## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

Will an external (3rd party) speed control prematurely burn out the motor?
Does reducing the RPM with a speed control reduce the horse power also?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Actually, it is more of a cross between an overhead router and a shaper because I mounted the router on its side and build a table that resembles a shelf. It allows me to pass my work across the bit perpendicular, as normal, or parallel to the bit and over the bit or under the bit. Having the back of my piece on the table allows multiple passes across the entire face of the piece without making the work unstable on the table. Great for making things like picture frames although you are limited by the reach of the bit.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Zerodyn:

Ok, nothing scientific here, just my experience (or lack thereof):



> The speed control (either internal or external) is the method used to control the speed of a router motor and subsequently the bit. The larger the bit, the more horsepower it takes to push that bit through the workpiece but the bit must work at a slower speed. Here's where I have a problem. Is a large bit balanced the same way a small one is? What happens when a large bit is overspun? Does a high-quality large bit spin faster than a cheaply made one? I have several large bits, some good quality and one really cheap one. The biggest expensive one whines. The biggest cheap one grumbles.


Yup, expensive one shears and whines and the cheap one chops and grumbles. You'll also find that the cheap ones will be off balance with one cutting edge not aligned properly with the other cutting edge. It's as if one edge is doing all the work.

As for the overspin? I started one up having forgotten to reduce the speed and I thought the router was going to self destruct -- cheap bit out of balance and what a racket. That's when you find out how tight your OakPark baseplate is. 

Cherryville Chuck:

Sounds like you've got a vertical table there. Got any pictures? I'd love to see how you've got the depth of cut adjustment done.

oldhippie1951:

There's lots of guys using external speed controls especially with Porter-Cable stuff with no indication that they're smoking the motors. However, the definitive answer should come from one of our engineers.


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## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> There's lots of guys using external speed controls especially with Porter-Cable stuff with no indication that they're smoking the motors. However, the definitive answer should come from one of our engineers.


Oh no........ Don't bring in the engineers!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Robert

Just my 2 cents..

" (3rd party) " = no, I have used one or two for many,many years on many types of motors not just routers.
Do you think they would sale a device that would wipe out your router, I think not or to say not for long..

i.e take a look at many scroll saws, most of them have a VS control box built in. 

" reduce the horse power " they use a word on some routers and some table saws ( PEAK HP ) rpm=power, you can't have both with the speed control box but some of the new routers have got around that error with new type of device built in on Some routers..

=======


oldhippie1951 said:


> Will an external (3rd party) speed control prematurely burn out the motor?
> Does reducing the RPM with a speed control reduce the horse power also?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Right on Robert  very true ..

====



oldhippie1951 said:


> Oh no........ Don't bring in the engineers!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Allthunbs, soory I haven't gotten back sooner. I can't supply a picture right now. The assembly I made is in Cherryville, BC and I am in Nampa, Alberta. I will ask my son to take some pictures and send them later. The router that quit on me was a plunge. As I said I stripped the shaft bare and put a pulley on it and belted it to a motor. To do this, I built a 3-sided box around it using the the handle screwholes, etc. to mount it to the box. The original baseplate sits flush with the bottom of the box. To adjust the depth I use the original adjustment screw and locking mechanism. The box is mounted on a sheet of plywood on its side. I added a shelf on the end of the box which moves vertically and is notched on both the horizontal and vertical faces so that it can be positioned both above and below the bit and parallel to it or against the original baseplate as usual. This really gives a lot of new ways to use router bits and was extremely useful when my wife asked me to make her some picture frames (that's another story and more pictures). My original attempt was crude because I didn't want to spend a lot of time or money to find out if it worked. Unfortuneately, it worked too well and there has been very little impetus to refine it, especially since I have 2 other routers and router tables.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Charles:

This sounds intriguing. I've got to see this. Pictures when you can please, and lots of them. ;-)

Ron



Cherryville Chuck said:


> Allthunbs, soory I haven't gotten back sooner. I can't supply a picture right now. The assembly I made is in Cherryville, BC and I am in Nampa, Alberta. I will ask my son to take some pictures and send them later. The router that quit on me was a plunge. As I said I stripped the shaft bare and put a pulley on it and belted it to a motor. To do this, I built a 3-sided box around it using the the handle screwholes, etc. to mount it to the box. The original baseplate sits flush with the bottom of the box. To adjust the depth I use the original adjustment screw and locking mechanism. The box is mounted on a sheet of plywood on its side. I added a shelf on the end of the box which moves vertically and is notched on both the horizontal and vertical faces so that it can be positioned both above and below the bit and parallel to it or against the original baseplate as usual. This really gives a lot of new ways to use router bits and was extremely useful when my wife asked me to make her some picture frames (that's another story and more pictures). My original attempt was crude because I didn't want to spend a lot of time or money to find out if it worked. Unfortuneately, it worked too well and there has been very little impetus to refine it, especially since I have 2 other routers and router tables.


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## oldhippie1951 (Oct 1, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> " (3rd party) " = no, I have used one or two for many,many years on many types of motors not just routers. Do you think they would sale a device that would wipe out your router, I think not or to say not for long..


Some manufacturers would sell you anything to make a buck.


bobj3 said:


> i.e take a look at many scroll saws, most of them have a VS control box built in.


I understand about a built in speed control. Hopefully, their engineering department did some testing. Example: If I were to buy a BRAND X router and use it with an external speed control and I burned the motor up. I ship it back to the manufacturer for WARRANTY repair or replacement and somehow, they could tell I used an external speed control, they may void the warranty.


bobj3 said:


> " reduce the horse power " they use a word on some routers and some table saws ( PEAK HP ) rpm=power, you can't have both with the speed control box but some of the new routers have got around that error with new type of device built in on Some routers..


That goes back to the price and quality of the product. The more expensive router that has a built in speed control may do it with three sets of windings; HIGH, MEDIUM and LOW. The less expensive router may have just one winding and do it by "manipulating" the voltage before it gets to the winding.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Allthunbs,
Sorry for the delay in answering again. My daughter has me building a couple of chests for her and my wife would like for me to finish the wainscotting I started making. I told a young gal a little while back about my honey-do list and she asked me when I expected to be done. I had to tell her that I'm pretty sure I'll die first. 
I'll ask my son to get busy taking the pictures and will post them as soon as possible.
Charles


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Allthunbs,
> Sorry for the delay in answering again. My daughter has me building a couple of chests for her and my wife would like for me to finish the wainscotting I started making. I told a young gal a little while back about my honey-do list and she asked me when I expected to be done. I had to tell her that I'm pretty sure I'll die first.
> I'll ask my son to get busy taking the pictures and will post them as soon as possible.
> Charles


Hi Charles:

Thanks for the update and I'm very patient. They will be appreciated when they appear. ;-)

Ron


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

oldhippie1951 said:


> Oh no........ Don't bring in the engineers!


Your illustration is wonderful!! It expresses perfectly what I encounter at work all the time, and it certainly impedes work.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Cassandra said:


> On vacation. At least I was until _Gitchigamee_ decided to play nasty. I was camping on the eastern shore of Lake Superior. Last night we had some nasty weather --rain storm followed by a high-wind storm followed by rain-and-high-wind storm. With the rest of my vacation time forecasted for rain, I decided to cede defeat this year.
> 
> As for soft-start and variable speed, there are multiple ways of achieving the effects. Which way one uses depends on the type of motors.
> 
> ...


Hi Cassandra,

Your engineering background and day job is showing through! I had always assumed that speed controls worked either by reducing the amplitude of the sine waves or in a way analogous to the electronically controlled infinitely variable transmissions of autos. I have no idea how the extra energy would be dissipated other than heat. Heat is the enemy of motors but to what extent that affects router motors or external speed controls I have no idea.

Your comment (bit rotation) speed = burn capability is one I find spot on.


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