# I could use some of your thoughts on Miter saws



## Tuthmose (Nov 29, 2009)

Hey all,

As part of my shop upgrade, I'm in the position to add some sawing power. By that I mean that the projects ahead of me have convinced the missus that I need to spend some money on toys, er, I mean vital tools. 

Currently, I have a Hitachi 12" single bevel miter saw, a non-slider. The bench arrangement in the new digs will make it difficult if not impossible to approach the saw from both directions, so I'm going to upgrade to a dual bevel model. 

I want tools capable of accurate work, not simply good-enough-for-framing. I have a decent table saw, well-tuned and accurate with a very good fence (and incra). This all leads to the questions:

Should I spring for a slider? The ability to cut wider stock without a lot of table-saw setup is a plus, but it seems that most of these saws on the market today for under $600 can't really deliver accuracy due to head deflection and rail issues.

OR

Would I be wiser to just get a fixed saw, like a DW716, and do wider crosscuts on the tablesaw to get the accuracy I want?

I'd appreciate any thoughts on which direction would be the most cost/labor efficient and smartest. Specific brand/model advice or feedback is always welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Ron


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Ron,

I have the 10 inch Hitachi slider, and I love it. If I had to do it all over again, I might just get the 12 inch non slider. The big reason is the footprint of the saw. I have really appreciated the capacity of the saw when I needed it, but the rest of the time the extra 12 inches of depth on the backside of the saw can get in the way.

The saw is quite accurate, and I can make no complaints about it otherwise.


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## Tuthmose (Nov 29, 2009)

Thank you, Doug.

I have run across some posts and reviews that say the same thing you do - it seems that the 10" sliders are far more accurate than the 12" ones, for whatever reason (head weight? Distance of blade edge from arbor? Magic pixie dust?). 

Sadly, one thing I really DO need a miter-saw for is the ability to cross-cut a 4x4, and it seems that, unless I'm mistaken, a 45-degree cut on one is out of the range of a lot if not all of the 10" SCMS. 

I was surprised and bummed when I started researching this purchase and ran into all the accuracy complaints about the various brands of 12" sliders . . .

-Ron


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ron, I use a Craftsman 10" miter saw that my wife bought me one year for Xmas. I know she paid $100 for it and it has sure paid for itself. If your concern is for simple cross cutting then a sled with a measuring tape attached on your table saw works pretty well. You know the edge of the sled is exactly where the cut is made.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

If you are going to spend the money on a miter saw, get the best available. If you afford that right now, use the table saw. I have a craftsman 10" miter saw in a similar configuration of yours. I rarely use it anymore. What I have found is that the positive stops for the positions are sloppy at best, so I am all the time checking and double checking for square. Plus another limitation is it can only cut a 5.5" wide board, which is extremely limiting. I believe the 12" blade typically only gives another 1" of cut capacity.

If I were to buy a miter saw today (and I am not because I can't afford either of these right now) my short list would be: Festool Kapex, Dewalt 12 Slider, or the Bosch gliding saw. The cheapest one of the bunch is around $600, and the most expensive is over $1000. It will be a few years before I upgrade. 

For right now, a good cross cut sled or a well tuned miter gauge give me very accurate cuts, and the fence in combination with a stop block (making sure the work piece is not touch the fence when making the cut) for me give far superior results in repeatability in cuts.


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## Tuthmose (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks again, guys.

Thing is, I WAS considering the DeWalt 718 12" (the new Bosch glider is outside of budget) . . . but it gets truly horrible reviews for accuracy, enough so that folks seem to be trying to track down the old 708s instead. Am I being misled? Are reports of deflection and inaccuracy in the DeWalt 718s and 780s (and its competition at that price-point) not correct?

A Slider looks like the best answer here, except I can't seem to find any that impress owners with their accuracy. Picking out a non-slider is easy, but shopping for the sliders is giving me a migraine 

-Ron


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I have the Bosch 12" sliding compound miter saw and it's a gem. Dead square cuts and accurate angles even on compound cuts. You can read my review on it here. It's big but I wouldn't trade it for anything!


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Tuthmose said:


> Would I be wiser to just get a fixed saw, like a DW716, and do wider crosscuts on the tablesaw to get the accuracy I want?


Hi Ron

I drag a mitre saw around to jobs all the time and the biggest pain is the weight. I've now settled on carrying a straight 10in mitre saw (Makita) as being simpler and less prone to flexing than any slider. It also costs less to repair _when_ (not if) it gets dropped. That saw happens to cover 85% of my work on trim carpentry and the like. It leaves me with a 10in slider (also Makita) in reserve for those few jobs which actually need one. One thing I can tell you is that 10in sliders deflect - 12in ones deflect more! As to people tracking down DW70*8*s because their DW71*8*/DW780 flexes, all I can say is that my experience of using the old one (for example, 4 months solid in oak panelling on one job alone) is _far worse_ that the newer one because the bars are stacked vertically. For most work 12in sliders are overkill. It fact many trim carpenters over here use 7-1/2in to 8in saws these days as they'll flat cut almost 300mm (12in) at a useful depth for moudings, and being smaller they're more robust, lighter and surprisingly more accurate than their larger bretheren

Regards

Phil


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Ron.
I have both of the Dewalt's the 708 & 718. They are both great saws & at least mine cut accurately. Unless it is defective they can be adjusted. Some people don't know how to use true up their saw. Sometimes they need adjusting even when new out of the box. I use mine mostly for trim & finish work. While both saws are good I personally like to use the older 708 more often. It's not because of accuracy it's because I was used to using the 708. When the 718 came out there were some changes to the design & location of things you use. Some good & some I think went in the wrong direction. The degree indicator was moved to the opposite side on the 718, table is smaller, While the blade guard is easier to see your mark thru, the handle was moved down right next to the guard & if your thumb is hanging over the side it will skin your knuckle when you lower the blade. I don't grab the handle the same way on the 708. But you will only make that mistake once. 

My 718 has a laser that works well when setup accurately but worthless in most lighting conditions. I'm going to swap it out for the light which will be more usefull in low light situations. The bevel gauge is much easier to read on the 718. If you have never used the 708 & started using the 718 these may not be any issues that you will even notice. I have used the Bosch & I think if I were going to buy another 12" slider I would get the Bosch. I would buy the Festool if I wanted to spend about $1300 but for that price I could get 2 saws that will work very well & accurately. The Dewalt's have been dependable cut after cut. Buying a good quality blade helps improve any saw.


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## Tuthmose (Nov 29, 2009)

Thank you all very much for sharing your experiences - its very helpful to a guy without much experience with these tools, and I really appreciate it.

I think I know what I'm going to end up going with, but I have a couple more questions, if I may:

CanuckGal, can you tell me the distance from the rear of the fence to the back of the sliders at full rearward extension? I'm almost positive from what I've seen of the Bosch that it won't fit the bench set-up I've got, but I'd like to be sure. I've got 18" max for rearward extension to work with. The DeWalt 718 and Hitachi 12" slider will fit, but will the Bosch?

Jlord - did you find that the 718's head did not appreciably deflect, or did you just find ways to fix this deflection? I wasn't aware that the rails could be tightened? Of course, I intended to replace the blade (probably with a Freud) - could the factory blade be a culprit in the deflection reports I have read?

Thanks again for bearing with the "twenty-questions"! I'm finished now, I swear 

-Ron


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi Ron.
Yes the rails can be tightened up to eliminate play. There is a small allen screw for this.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

I too have the Bosch. It is expensive but it has a couple of things about it I really like.

First, I'm space-limited and it requires very little depth without the rods sticking out in back.

Second, it has a latch that locks the hinge (slider) in place for narrow, precise cuts. This makes it a stable "chop saw" for really accurate cuts.

Yes, it was expensive but I just did without until I'd saved a bit longer.


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## rsumme (Oct 6, 2011)

I have a Bosch Glider. It is very accurate and stays in adjustment. But it is more than $600. Could send you a picture in its station if you like. Also, Dewalt has a new model with LED lighting around the hub. That looks really neat. But I don't have the model number at this time.


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## rsumme (Oct 6, 2011)

The new Dewalt that is so nice is their model 780. It is reviewed briefly in the Oct/Nov issue of American Woodworker.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

I wish I had seen this 7 weeks ago when it was new. Hopefully, someone will find this post useful.

I have a Rigid MS1290LZA, 12 inch dual compound sliding miter saw and I like it a lot.

I bought this saw in November of 2004 and have not noticed any issue with tracking as mentioned on some forums. I did have to adjust the saw for squareness (both vertical and lateral) but this is not unusual even for new saws and the instructions are in the manual. Once adjusted, I find it cuts very accurately. When reading opinions on various websites, keep in mind that most people only write something when they have an issue (making most online reviews negatively biased).

The only negatives I have are that the built in dust collection is not that good (are any?) and the included laser site doesn't line up with the cut line at all (and doesn't appear to be adjustable either). I don't know if it still does come with a laser sight
but either way, there are lots of aftermarket laser sights you could get.

I like this saw alot and compared it to several other brands of 12" dual compound sliding miter saws before making the purchase. I found it was the best for the money and I liked the large diameter miter scale. The large diameter scale makes it easy to set angles to 1/4 degree, which can be very useful.

I liked this saw better than a similar DeWalt model because of the large miter scale, the large work surface, the lower price, and comparable quality. I also prefered the locking mechanism on the Rigid. Since buying it, I've come across several others that also use it, one being Bryan Baeumler of HGTV fame ("House of Brian"; "Disaster DIY" - watch the shows long enough and you'll see and hear it - it's sound is unmistakeable) and the contractor that upgraded my next-door neighbors' kitchen cabinets, floors, and stairs (lots of trim work - he had his since for over 10 years). I would probably buy this saw over other brands even if price was not considered. 

Here's a review of several miter saws by category (this Rigid was third in it's category): 
The Best and Worst of the POWER MITER SAW World


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## rsumme (Oct 6, 2011)

*dustmaker70*

I have responded twice but the info has not gotten to you. Don't know why! I am new to the forum.

I have a Bosch Glider. It is great. I could send you a pix of the station I made for it. The station is very, very convenient.

The Glider is not under $600. It is more in the $800 range. The Festool Kapex is the best in my opinion. But it is much higher.

The best medium price saw I have seen reviewed lately is the DeWalt 780. It is reviewed in the Oct/Nov issue of American Woodworker.

Good Luck
Dustmaker70


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I have the 708 DeWALT, great saw it is mounted on the Rigid mobile stand, the older better one, it is easy to tune and stays tuned. I do not care for the 718, table is too small and guard too big. If I were to be getting one now I would be looking at the Bosh with the articulating arm it goes right against the wall, I would like that,


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## 7ROUTERS (Oct 11, 2011)

I too admire this saw. I have had this saw for at least 4 years now and really love it. It's mounted to the rigid mobile cart, which is convenient for transportation. I did do some fine tuning like I always do on any new or used tool, and has stayed in tune and cuts very acurately. It probably could use a little more power but I'm still not going to complain. It has a lifetime warranty as well.


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## argoknot (Dec 7, 2009)

I've had my DeWalt 705 non slider for years with no problems. I love it!


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## TheOakDude (Oct 11, 2011)

Makita 1014


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## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

Sounds funny I had 2 Craftsman moved up to Dewalt after owning 2 of them I have a Hitachi 12" sliding coumpound and like it the best so far and it takes up very little room with the wall space feature .....Good luck in whatever Ya choose


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## chipgreen (Feb 22, 2010)

I love my Hitachi 12 non slider. Takes care of everyting I do and the price was right.


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