# What to buy next?



## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

I and my workshop have evolved in the last six months to the point where my tool catalogue includes a great R4510 Ridgid table saw, a decent Craftsman sliding compound mitre saw, a Mastercraft Maximum router combo, a PC circular saw, and a Freud biscuit joiner, along with the usual drills, portable sanders, etc. 

I make mostly small cabinets and bookshelves out of pine planks and/or plywood. I'd like eventually to work my way up to bigger projects using better wood. In terms of joining, I usually use butt joints with dowels or biscuits. I have no interest in plumbing or metalwork.

I'm considering adding one (two tops!) power tools to my (really) small workshop. It should be something that will be instantly useful and/or reasonably easy to learn. and I'm seeking your thoughts and recommendations about the following options:

1. A better router -- the Maximum works but is not precise enough to take me to the next level (i.e. fancier cuts);
2. A jointer/planer -- I like the idea of cutting cheap wood to my specs and cleaning up the non-straight stock available at my local home store.
3. Some kind of bench sander (tho' I don't yet have what I consider an acceptable dust-control system). And so far, I'm achieving smooth enough results without the need for more than my small sanders.
4. A drill stand -- only occasionally feel the need for it but those occasions really seem to matter.
5. Something I haven't thought of?

What are your thoughts, please and thank you.

Joel


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Joel,

I would recommend either a bandsaw or the jointer. I wouldn't bother with a planer until you have a jointer, but I'm sure a few will disagree.

A 14 inch bandsaw can do a lot, but I wouldn't go smaller than that. A 6-1/8 jointer is a decent size for a small shop. Both show up in the classifieds pretty often.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

For what it's worth:
I suggest you buy a book (E-bay has lots of them) on band saw, jointer, router etc. -- whatever you are thinking of buying. That should give you good ideas which would do more for your situation.

My progression was router, drill press, band saw, bench saw, jointer.
I'm seeing that the jointer could have been sooner. Planer will arrive later.

Happy with what I have now. I'd love to find room for a lathe.

Craiglist is a gold mine. Both for buying and selling. Sell to get rid of the item. Space is precious. Expect to pay for space -- sell at a price that moves it FAST.

I've put two items on Craigslist priced to move FAST. Both were gone before the day was done.

A jointer makes for wonderful side support for your table saw.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi


East job, get a new 5,000.oo CC and use it just for new toys, go to Rockler/Woodcraft/?? and say I will take that and that and that and that and by the way and that. and when the truck pulls up to drop off your new tools/toys tell the BOSS look what I got you for your birthday and to build some new kitchen cabinets just for you dear.  now let go out for dinner, dear.

==


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> East job, get a new 5,000.oo CC and use it just for new toys, go to Rockler/Woodcraft/?? and say I will take that and that and that and that and by the way and that. and when the truck pulls up to drop off your new tools/toys tell the BOSS look what I got you for your birthday and to build some new kitchen cabinets just for you dear.  now let go out for dinner, dear.
> ...


Valentines day was YESTERDAY.:no:


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

*What a romantic!*



bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> East job, get a new 5,000.oo CC and use it just for new toys, go to Rockler/Woodcraft/?? and say I will take that and that and that and that and by the way and that. and when the truck pulls up to drop off your new tools/toys tell the BOSS look what I got you for your birthday and to build some new kitchen cabinets just for you dear.  now let go out for dinner, dear.
> ...


Missus is a shrink so hard to pull that stuff on her. However, I commend you for your bravery.
And thanks to all for your great suggestions. People on this board are truly nice!

Joel


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

She got flowers and a nice box of candy for that and I have got most of it gone by now..she likes to share and a very good sport.  but I did get a bag of candy . 

===



rwl7532 said:


> Valentines day was YESTERDAY.:no:


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

jruimy said:


> I and my workshop have evolved in the last six months to the point where my tool catalogue includes a great R4510 Ridgid table saw, a decent Craftsman sliding compound mitre saw, a Mastercraft Maximum router combo, a PC circular saw, and a Freud biscuit joiner, along with the usual drills, portable sanders, etc.
> 
> I make mostly small cabinets and bookshelves out of pine planks and/or plywood. I'd like eventually to work my way up to bigger projects using better wood. In terms of joining, I usually use butt joints with dowels or biscuits. I have no interest in plumbing or metalwork.
> 
> ...


Hi Joel - well, you have enough tools to start building a router table. You can make or buy the top and fence and it will start you off on bigger things. Also could be a home for another router if you really want to buy one. You can trick the router table into acting like a jointer until you can pick up one of those.
Belt, disc or spindle sander would be a nice addition too as you can shape with those as well as just sand and smooth.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Joel; on the planer vs jointer issue...the thing about the planer is that it will allow you to start using rough sawn hardwoods. The thing about _that_ is that you first need to joint a face side (and a face edge). So basically it's not a one or the other proposition.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

...of course you _could_ plane by hand.
Veritas® #6 Fore Plane - Lee Valley Tools


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!

My opinion is that a table router is a great tool.
A large one is good at joining sides of board.

And that a combinated machine like
planer-thicknether is great for using wood at a lot cheaper prices.

In France some very popular combinated machine does:
Table saw, planer, thicknesser, Shaper, morticer.

The multi-motors ones are the best ones.

This one is great but only 260mm (10" ) width.
They got bigger ones.

IMHO:
Using tons of wood, one has better plane them himself,
Not using so much I' go and find a good suplier for wood ready to use.

I use to go to a little furniture factory nearby and ask them to cut 
and plane my planks.So able to buy the wood at cheap rates and getting
them ready to use


Regards


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

Merci bien Gerard.
J'ai une toute petite table pour l'instant mais je voudrais bien avoir une plus grande.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

jruimy said:


> Merci bien Gerard.
> J'ai une toute petite table pour l'instant mais je voudrais bien avoir une plus grande.


Google Translate.

This has been a public service by rwl7532.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Joel, if you will re-read your initial post, you will see the answer: You're at the point where IMHO *dust collection* is more important than anything else mentioned. After being equipped with a nice dust-collection system you will be keeping your lungs and family much safer and happier! After that, get a fire extinguisher!


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

I agree that the next purchase is dust collection. If funds are limited get at least a good shop vacuum and filter.


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## wm460 (Feb 12, 2012)

Big Steve said:


> I agree that the next purchase is dust collection. If funds are limited get at least a good shop vacuum and filter.


I agree with Big Steve, New lungs are hard to come by.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello!

Your perfectly right about dust collection!

Good masks are a good thing too.
Some use some sort of filtered, motor ventilated helmets.


About Lungs IMHO:
The last studies about dust seems to show that micro sized dust is more
Dangerous than chips, so bagg system is very bad.

I installed a home-made cyclonic and then exaust is filtered before
being thrown outside 6 m up in he air.

One, out of by many places on the web:
Bill's Cyclone Dust Collection Research - Home Page

Regards


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## wm460 (Feb 12, 2012)

Gerard. I am interested in how you filtered the exhaust?


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

*dust collection air exhaust*



wm460 said:


> Gerard. I am interested in how you filtered the exhaust?


Hello!

Well, hum, hum, 
I did'nt really nicely filter the exhaust.

But ,the exhaust is 6 m hight and nobody around to breath it.
I should buy a EPA filter and make a box for it.

Link to some filters:
Cartridge Filters

At the moment , my dust collection is quite weak, there is fine dust falling
everywhere.It only makes less amount to clean but gives health no security.
I wear air-masks

The installation uses a big shop-vac.
And a funny home-made cyclonic.

Works well on the lathe, when the hose is in axis of the tool.
not too bad on the router-table, poorly with portable circ saw.
Poorly on sand belts, not at all with portable router. too complicated.

Its true that dust is a real problem, didn' t find good solution.
but got used to it.

Surely I should try and do better about it.

And about exhaust filtering, i think I should.

Regards


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## TheOakDude (Oct 11, 2011)

Fine dust is a huge problem for me at the moment.
I am trying out different methods of shop made / improvised extraction.
Is good to know that you dont necessarily need to spend a huge ammount.


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks so much for your many thoughtful and intelligent responses. And please forgive me for my momentary lapse into French without providing translation. It won't happen again.

OK, I'm sold: dust collection it is. The entire debate reminds me of the old discussion 30 years ago about having $300 to spend on either a new stereo or a brake job. Stereo's sexier and giving you pleasure right in your living room, while the brakes are invisible but saving your life.

My shop is a one-car garage, 10' by 18'. I already have a Shop Vac air cleaner mounted near the ceiling within range of dus-making tools, and a Ridgid 16-gallon shop vac. Air cleaner is great, noticealy clearing air of discernable airborne particles. Ridgid works great on table saw and router but hardly at all on chop saw. My Ryobi 18-volt power planer has excellent on-board dust collection but the Freud biscuit joiner's is awful.

Given my very limited space, and the fact that I work one or two days a week and generating dust at least three to five hours each of those days, am I looking at a little Oneida cyclone, or just giving up and working only when the weather permits me to open garage door and move power tools closer to the great outdoors?

I have neither the money nor the space for a big machine and ducting. I'm looking for a solution that, like everything else I want out of lige, is cheap and works brilliantly.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Joel, the point of a purpose made 'dust collector' is that it collects virtually _all_ your waste wood...chips, shavings, dust, all of it. Makes for a much cleaner and safer work space...way more efficient. If you don't mind wheeling it around, you can simply hook up to whichever tool you need it at. Ducting can be installed at a later date.
The things are designed to handle lots of volume and fairly large chips. No comparison to a Shop-Vac. I use both, for different purposes. I prefer the Shop-Vac for tool clean ups and cleaning up my project after sanding. I must say, however, that nothing gets rid of sanding dust like compressed air!


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Joel, the point of a purpose made 'dust collector' is that it collects virtually _all_ your waste wood...chips, shavings, dust, all of it. Makes for a much cleaner and safer work space...way more efficient. If you don't mind wheeling it around, you can simply hook up to whichever tool you need it at. Ducting can be installed at a later date.
> The things are designed to handle lots of volume and fairly large chips. No comparison to a Shop-Vac. I use both, for different purposes. I prefer the Shop-Vac for tool clean ups and cleaning up my project after sanding. I must say, however, that nothing gets rid of sanding dust like compressed air!


Thanks for that, Dan. Any particular model you recommend for a small shop and small budget? Busy Bee seems to have a couple of models in the $200-range.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mine's a Delta, but I don't have any particular preferences. Noise, and parts availability (replacement bags for instance) would likely be deal breakers for me
I don't like the bag mounting clamps on mine...a royal pain in the a**
If you're in the Lower Mainland, Joel, check out KMS and Summit Tools as well.
I think you're spot on at the $200 price point, by the way. 
Another good selling feature is a 1 micron upper bag, rather than the 3+ ones which seem to be standard(?)...
Taunton Press has a good book on dust collection, if you're library building


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks Dan. Will explore further.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No, thank _you_, Joel! 
My interest was piqued and I started doing some further reading on ducting. Likely a lot of Forum members are familiar with this article, a short quote and link below...
Bill's Cyclone & Dust Collection Research - Ducting
"Static Electricity

There is always someone who will bring up the concerns about duct static potentially causing an explosion when you use PVC pipe. PVC pipe is an excellent insulator that will build up a static charge, particularly in a dry cold climate. Although that charge can shock you, the experts say it is not ample to cause an explosion in hobbyist based systems. Dr. Rod Cole wrote an excellent article in Fine Woodworking that debunked the static myth with PVC pipe. He also posted that article on a woodworking forum and gave me permission to include a link to his article. If you are still concerned, go read his information. Dr. Rod Cole has some excellent additional information on grounding PVC on his site: Dr. Rod Cole on Grounding PVC (Click here). "
PVC

I did not know that! I believed a lot of what I've read about PVC, and had been avoiding it.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Hello

IMHO:
In this 200 to 300 $ range i would get a 100mm big dust collector

Like that, but must be cheaper in your country:
Aspirateur Kity Scheppach 90 litres monophasÃ© - OFFRE SPECIALE ! - HM diffusion, spÃ©cialiste : outil et machine Ã* bois - Aspirateur Kity Scheppach 90 litres monophasÃ© - OFFRE SPECIALE !

Add a little 100 mm rigid piping and then a 100mm flex

Those motors can use Hepa cartriges, but Wearing a mask is a must at times.

If possible, i' ll put it outside the workshop, in a little shed , for keeping dust and noise away.The bags or even filter could let dust trought and cleaning-day is easier.

A cyclonic separator does a great job and does not cost much to make,
Maybee some extra- space for it in a shed extension.

It does not reduce power significantly and gives longer up-time to final filter

IMHO: the little particles seems to be the worse of them...

Was pleased to read some French, it's a lot easier for me, but did not answer French
because, people speak English here.

Regards.

Gerard
Pict of my funny "cyclonic" dust separator


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

ggom20 said:


> Hello
> 
> Was pleased to read some French, it's a lot easier for me, but did not answer French
> because, people speak English here.
> ...


I realize reading French is easier for you, but I appreciate your excellent English.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

Thanks for my somehow limited English, Learning by trying.
using a lot of google translate stuff!


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

That research paper made for excellent reading. Also put into perspective the issues I feared about fire hazard. I think we're best to just worry about the fine-dust-lung issue. Going to the Busy Bee this Friday to scout equipment and will report back afterwards.

Again thanks to all for their wise and valuable input. No more tools until I get the dust situation under control.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> and when the truck pulls up to drop off your new tools/toys tell the BOSS look what I got you for your birthday


And she says "My Birthday was 5 months ago, you jerk", then you know what it feels like to be toast.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Gerard, your English is better than a lot of what passes for 'conversation' from the acne set, here... 
Who knew the `F` word could function as _any/every_ element of English? How versatile is that! lol


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

Update: I finally sprang for the Dust Deputy Deluxe ($95 Canadian on sale) and I couldn't be more impressed.
Took 5 minutes to assemble and hook up to my 5-hp Ridgid shop vac, and the results are awesome. Virtually everything goes into the cyclone container and only the smallest dust goes to the vac. I presume the fine dust gets caught in the vac's filter because I don't see it when I open either the cyclone or the vac. In the old days, as soon as I opened the vac, it produced a cloud of fine dust.
Footprint of the Dust Deputy is perfect in my small shop, which now boasts visibly and breathably better air.
Again, thanlks to all who responded with suggestions and advice.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Can you post a picture of your Dust Deputy installation?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Oneida Air Systems - New Dust Deputy - YouTube
The Dust Deputy - YouTube

Dust Right Vortexâ„¢ Dust Separator - Rockler - YouTube
Rockler Dust Right Vortex Dust Separator - YouTube

Dust Right Vortex™ Dust Separator - Rockler Woodworking Tools


==


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Thanks, bobj3!!
I'll get one. And also the HEPA filter for my shop vac.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome Ralph

I should get one also but most of the time I just roll my tools outside in the great out doors if I know I'm going to make a lot of dust and just use the gas power hand blower to clean up things after..  after all that's why I put wheels on them.  I know many work in the basement and then it's good thing to have.


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rwl7532 said:


> Thanks, bobj3!!
> I'll get one. And also the HEPA filter for my shop vac.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

rwl7532 said:


> Can you post a picture of your Dust Deputy installation?


I really like my dust deputy... I figure it's already paid for itself in vacuum bags. I also use the shop vac hi efficiency filter bag, recommended for drywall dust, plus the HEPA cartridge filter. 
I just finished this cart to try to keep the whole shebang organized.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Please check out the recent update to the dust collection dilemma. Give Mark a few days to upload it. It's at this url:

http://www.routerforums.com/woodwor...-collection-updated-important.html#post274714


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## jruimy (Jan 14, 2012)

See John's pix on this thread after my posting. Mine looks the same as his, minus the clever rolling stand on which he mounted his containers. Soon, mine will look like his as I shamelessly copy his design.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I will be mounting mine (when I get it) on the back wall of my one car garage. I have enough stuff on the floor as it is; anything else will be a trip hazard.


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

allthunbs said:


> Please check out the recent update to the dust collection dilemma. Give Mark a few days to upload it. It's at this url:
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/woodwor...-collection-updated-important.html#post274714


Hello Ron!

Thanks for the posting! 


And for the work done searching about filter's qualities.
I want to improve my air cleaner now!
Been in too much dust again today with sander.
I' ll have to make a new one.
Could you give clic-links URL' s to filters for home-made air-cleaner.
Like 3M and others?

Thanks in advance.
Regards
Gerard


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

I like it  so many go over the deep end and yours is dead on for the right price too, good job  we all want less dust flying around the shop without putting out a ton money to do it..simple but right on.. 


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jschaben said:


> I really like my dust deputy... I figure it's already paid for itself in vacuum bags. I also use the shop vac hi efficiency filter bag, recommended for drywall dust, plus the HEPA cartridge filter.
> I just finished this cart to try to keep the whole shebang organized.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

ggom20 said:


> Hello Ron!
> 
> Thanks for the posting!
> 
> ...


Bonjour Gerard,

Ok, I'll do some digging. I used standards and vendors in Canada for availability of product. I'll go looking for international information. Back soon ;-)

Ron


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## ggom20 (Feb 1, 2012)

allthunbs said:


> Bonjour Gerard,
> 
> Ok, I'll do some digging. I used standards and vendors in Canada for availability of product. I'll go looking for international information. Back soon ;-)
> 
> Ron


Hello Ron clean work!::yes4:

Thanks in avance for links !
Maybe just Canadian links would do it, if they ship international.
that's alright for me.
With 3M reference number I can probably get it from local 3M Dealers
Having part reference could make more guys happy with making a filter.

(Been clawling in 3M Website, it's just awfully difficult to use it.)

Regards
Gérard


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