# Which comes first....



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

In the opening of The Router Workshop they show a clock which has box joints. The clock half is angled at less that 45°.

Which is done first, making the angle or doing the box joint?

The recommendation of studying this tv series was the best advice given to me to date.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

oops, that is "less than" 90°.... (I think)


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

nikki1492 said:


> In the opening of The Router Workshop they show a clock which has box joints. The clock half is angled at less that 45°.
> 
> Which is done first, making the angle or doing the box joint?
> 
> ...


Hi Barb,

If you can watch the video, you will se that Bob and Rick have the 30 degree angle already cut on the stock as well as on the push block.

I think that episode is available online, but I do not have the address.

Some one will jump in with better details.

James


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Thanks, James. I've got the address but don't see it among the viewable segments.

The Woodworking Channel Video Library

I am fascinated by them and am thinking I'd like to make one for each of my 3 children for Christmas.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Barb, this is one job that looks a lot tougher than it is. By using a push block that is cut at the angle and slightly raising the bit... this is identical to making normal box joints. For the first cut the 30º slope is going up on the push block. On the second piece the block is flipped over so the slope is going down. With the bit slightly higher the fingers are just a little longer to cover the angle. Once glued you sand off the excess fingers.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Thanks, Mike. I think I'll look for something a little less complicated. <grin>


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi _Barb

It's a easy one to do but you should make a quick jig,,I know you don't like jigs but this one needs one,,,the stock can be hard to keep at the right angle without one...

Pre cut the stock at the 30 deg.angle then clamp the stock in place to help you hold it right...


I guess I should show what clock we are talking about ,made with the RWS spacers jigs 


==========




_



nikki1492 said:


> Thanks, Mike. I think I'll look for something a little less complicated. <grin>


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Hey Jigs, I'll take a jig any day. It means I'm working smarter not harder. <grin>


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi _Barb
> 
> It's a easy one to do but you should make a quick jig,,I know you don't like jigs but this one needs one,,,the stock can be hard to keep at the right angle without one...
> 
> ...


Thanks BJ,

I will copy this one as well

James


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

I'm sorry, James.

Thanks, Jigs for posting a pic of the clock.

I learned a lesson... I won't start a tread about something in particular without posting a pic of it.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Mike, I'm sorry I misread your post as it being more difficult than it looks. That's what happens after I've taken my medication.

I really would like to give these as gifts to my kids. I think they are really neat looking. So I'm going to give it a go.

I just got my router table top put together with the fence and all. Today I'm going to mount my Hitachi router. 
I've also got the base cabinet that will sit on a table. That way I can adjust the working height. That also gets done today.

I am going to need step by step directions starting from the very beginning with making the jig and deciding on the wood I to use.

Mike, would it be better for the forum if I keep this thread going or should I get private instructions?

Since there are a lot of newbies signing on I think they could benefit from this project, too.

What say you?

Thanks everyone. I'm beginning to really feel like I can do this. I know I've got the help/advice here to be successful. <big grin>


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Barb

"gifts to my kids" I would suggest you get the clocks 1st. and the forstner bits to drill the holes out for the clocks...the rest of the project will be easy stuff...

I do recommend you get the big set of the forstner bits ( 2 1/2" to 3 3/4" ) from HF for about 60.oo bucks ,, once you make a clock or two you will enjoy doing it for many of your projects ,they make great gifts and can be put in place so easy with the right bits.. 

Note**** use can also use your router to put in the holes in for the clocks with a quick made template(s) this will save a bit of the cost for the forstner bits.. I have one or two of them and they work great for this job and many other jobs as well 
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_dado.html

Amazon.com: MLCS 9146 Forstner 16-Piece Bit Set in Wooden Box: Home Improvement

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

Harbor Freight Tools

Klockit - The World's Leading Clock Parts and Clock Movements Supplier for Over 35 Years
2 1/2", 2 7/8", & 3 1/8" Inset-Mount Inserts
Clock Inserts and Clock Dials - Klockit
http://www.klockit.com/products/dept-31__sku-AAAAR.html

I did get some great deals on the clocks from eBay,,( 10ea. ,2 1/2" diam. for 12.00 dollars (one lot) plus shipping of 8.oo bucks) you may want to shop around,,
=======


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Hey there Bob. Dang you're good. You not only gave me beginning info but anticipated my next question: where do I get clock kits. <grin>

I found these 'hole cutters' when cleaning up after the kids built the addition. I know they are not forstner bits... BUT.... I think for now I like your second idea with the dado clean out bit. Could I use this hole cutter, for the lack of the proper name, as the template? It's 2 9/16". I got several of them starting at 1 1/2" to 3 1/2". It's certainly not an issue if you say it won't work.

My finances are getting a bit dicey. I need the less expensive way out. But I don't want to go cheap. I'm sure you understand what I'm saying.

Your advice about getting the clocks first is the best. What a great deal you got on ebay.... I will be looking *all over*.

Barb


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Barb

Yep, they will work fine  (hole saws),,, I don't suggest /recommend them because they are not cheap for the good ones..the set you have go for about 180.oo per set, like you have (they look like the (Lenox) brand..).


==========


nikki1492 said:


> Hey there Bob. Dang you're good. You not only gave me beginning info but anticipated my next question: where do I get clock kits. <grin>
> 
> I found these 'hole cutters' when cleaning up after the kids built the addition. I know they are not forstner bits... BUT.... I think for now I like your second idea with the dado clean out bit. Could I use this hole cutter, for the lack of the proper name, as the template? It's 2 9/16". I got several of them starting at 1 1/2" to 3 1/2". It's certainly not an issue if you say it won't work.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Barb, as BJ says you should get the clocks with the tools to make the mounting holes and cut those holes before making the box joints. Once you have a clean installation hole for the clock the rest is quick and easy. You can use your mitre saw to cut a piece of 2 x 4" at a 30º angle... your jig is now ready to use. This is the method Bob Rosendahl uses in that episode. BJ goes a bit further by building a nice jig which really helps when cutting more than a couple. I am kind of in between Bob and BJ. I use a section of 4 x 4" which provides more support than Bob's method but is not as comfy as BJ's design. All of these work, the one you choose is personal preference.

There is one thing you can do to make all of these more stabile during use. Once you have set up your box joint jig, run the angle jig through the bit and place this groove on the box joint fence. This will provide better support as the piece is moved over.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Gotcha, Mike.

I've sent for the clean out bit. 

I think I'll work with the 2 X 4 jig like you gave directions for. If the clocks turn out like I want them I'll make the jig that Bob gave directions for. I'm sure I'll make quite a few of the clocks.

What dimensions do you suggest for a 2½" clock face?

I have a character flaw..... I know you're all shocked.... <Very big grin> I have been a perfectionist all my life. And because of this, which I'm working on, I become frustrated and discouraged quite easily. When that happens I'll take a pic of it and post it and explain what I did. I hope to get everyone's critique and suggestions on how to fix my problem.

Is there a way to make a countersink hole without the countersink on the drill bit? What about a 45° V-groove? Actually, I'm just curious about 'workarounds'.

I'm ready to practice, practice, practice. I'm as obsessed about the clock as I am about my table/chair.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

You can use a V bit to countersink a hole. You can use just the tip of a larger drill bit, or you can also use the larger bit to drill a hole about 3/8" deep and after the screw is inserted glue a piece of dowel in to fill the hole... either matching or contrasting. Be sure to save the sawdust when making the clocks incase you need to fill in a joint. This is not brain surgery Barb, have fun with this! Size the boards to what looks good to you.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Barb

Most of the time I agree with Mike but on this one point I do need to disagree ...the counter sink is a very simple tool but you should have one or two or more on hand..

Most have 3 flutes or to say 3 cutters on them,some have more,,almost all of them are set at 82 deg. that's the key to get the screw to set right in the pocket hole,,if it's not done right with the right tool the screw head will move the screw off center of the hole..or move the stock/plastic/steel off to one side when you crank it down...they do two jobs at one time,1st.put in a pocket in for the head and line up the head with the hole center...

This is one tool you don't want to cheat on,,,you can but them from just about any hardware store/HD/Lowes/Rockler,etc. but do buy a set with 3 in it the norm...small,med.lar. in one set. the small one is about 1/4" OD on the counter end..you don't need a high end price set for wood..


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42279
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=98442
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93342

harbor freight ▼
ALLENTOWN, PA 4628 BROADWAY, STE A 
ALTOONA, PA 119 PARK HILLS PLAZA 
DICKSON CITY, PA 1011 COMMERCE CENTER 
E.NORRITON TWSP, PA 2856 DEKALB PIKE 
ERIE, PA 3508 LIBERTY STREET 
HARRISBURG, PA 851 EISENHOWER BLVD. 
JOHNSTOWN, PA 830 SCALP AVE 
LANCASTER, PA 2090 LINCOLN HWY E. 
MONROEVILLE, PA 374 MONROEVILLE MALL 
PHILADELPHIA, PA 151 FRANKLIN MILLS BLVD. 
PITTSBURGH, PA 5185 CAMPBELLS RUN RD 
PLEASANT HILLS, PA 639A CLAIRTON BLVD. 
POTTSVILLE, PA 7102 FAIRLANE VILLAGE MAL New Store!
READING, PA 3229 NORTH 5TH ST HWY 
SHARON HILL, PA 1112 CHESTER PIKE 
WILLIAMSPORT, PA 2062 LYCOMING CREEK RD,#A 
WYOMING, PA 1074 WYOMING AVE 
YORK, PA 2460 E. MARKET ST. 

=========


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

We do not disagree BJ. I know Barb is working on a limited budget so I gave her the fix to get her by until she can get some countersink bits.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Hey Bob,

I did it! I drilled the hole first then used the v-groove. I got one just right but the other two are a tad deep. The screw head sits below the surface by about 1/8". Those two are a bit rough on the surface so I'll sand a wee bit.

Now my router is mounted! Now I can start playing with box joints. I'm excited! 

What a scuzzy area I live in.... no place sells Titebond III in the entire county. So I got II.

Thanks for getting all the HF locations in PA. The closest is Altoona and that is about 2 hours drive- one way. And nobody believes me when I say I live in the middle of nowhere! <grin>

I hope you're having a great weekend.


----------



## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Barb,

TBII will be just fine, as a matter of fact I think it will work better for you than III in the long run. :yes2:


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

I was watching the Sam Maloof part of the Woodworking Channel. Sam said he didn't work at all with III. It stains the hands brown and it has to wear off.

Should I make a spacer jig? 

I can't think how if there is that 30° angle for the clock, (just practicing!)

I'm clueless.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Barb

I'm with Sam I don't use the number III without having cloves on..

They make many glues like the III now day and almost all them will stain your hands,not to say you need to scrap the over flow off b/4 sanding..and it will seal the wood b/4 trying to put a stain/finish on it..

I do use the II glue with white vinegar 50/50 thing to clean up the glue over flow..I also you Q-TIPS to clean out the corners/hard parts that you can't get into with a rag..nothing looks worse than the spots of glue left behind or oil from you fingers on a great project.... 

I don't use tack rags,I use some alcohol to wipe it all down to remove all the hand prints just b/4 staining or put on the finish..

======



nikki1492 said:


> I was watching the Sam Maloof part of the Woodworking Channel. Sam said he didn't work at all with III. It stains the hands brown and it has to wear off.
> 
> Should I make a spacer jig?
> 
> ...


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ok, I must admit that I am a bit confused. I glue most of my projects with III and have never had any problems with staining. Is this because I put the glue on the material and not on my hands?  The answer is no, it is because I keep a good sized jar of water handy with clean rags and wash/wipe right away.


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

Hey Mike, Guess you don't gots fumbly fingers.... <Very big grin>


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Many,many ,many woodworkers in this world but Sam Maloof was one the best, if you get some time check out his web sites and all the awards his got over the years for wood working projects ,he has make tons,and tons,of money from his wood working projects. you can take his word to the bank, he pass not to long ago and he will be miss..

Sam Maloof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sam+Maloof&btnG=Google+Search&cts=1245622465929&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://finewoodworking.taunton.com/item/14235/sam-maloof-1916-2009
=


----------



## nikki1492 (May 31, 2009)

And designer extraordinaire.

Barb


----------

