# Tablesaw



## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

Good day need some advice before making the wrong purchase. I am a DIY enthusiast that wants to do some manufacturing of side tables, dining tables etc. Dont have much space so have been contemplating a purchase of what you guys refer to as a shop saw. In South Africa I can currently get the Bosch GTS-10 XC, the Makita MLT100 or the Dewalt DW745. I will be wanting to use woods like pallet wood, supawood, pine and certain hardwoods like saligna, oak, cyprus, mahogany. Which would be the best bet for me to buy? They are all the same price give or take a few R500. Currently I can get the Makita for almost R3000 ($200 less as it is on promo). However most reviews seem to say not the Makita but rather get the Bosch. I thank you all in advance.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*Welcome to the Forum*



Lyndon Holder said:


> Good day need some advice before making the wrong purchase. I am a DIY enthusiast that wants to do some manufacturing of side tables, dining tables etc. Dont have much space so have been contemplating a purchase of what you guys refer to as a shop saw. In South Africa I can currently get the Bosch GTS-10 XC, the Makita MLT100 or the Dewalt DW745. I will be wanting to use woods like pallet wood, supawood, pine and certain hardwoods like saligna, oak, cyprus, mahogany. Which would be the best bet for me to buy? They are all the same price give or take a few R500. Currently I can get the Makita for almost R3000 ($200 less as it is on promo). However most reviews seem to say not the Makita but rather get the Bosch. I thank you all in advance.


Hey, Lyndon.

First piece of advice. Please fill out your profile. Answers will depend on what part of the world you are in. It, also, helps the membership answer your questions, based on what your experience, and equipment/tool availability.

Sounds like you need what we refer to in the US as a contractors saw. Small, portable, and fairly accurate. 

I am not familiar with all of the models that you have listed, but, you will get a lot of votes for the Bosch 4100. I'm not sure if it is available in SA under that name but a search of the Bosch website will get you there. It will beat out the Makita and the DeWalt hands down. 

Others will jump in and help, I'm sure. We have several SA members here that I'm sure will be able to provide some better localized help.

Welcome, again.

Bill


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Lyndon. It's difficult for North American members to recommend models because most of the models sold here aren't sold elsewhere and I think that is primarily because our power systems are different so our model won't work there and yours wouldn't work here. If you can find the equivalent to the Bosch 4100 you would probably be happy with it. One member has a commercial shop with more than one of them in it he likes them so much. I like the new DeWalt's rack and pinion fence system but we've been seeing some bad reviews of their customer service lately. Bosch still understands what those words mean.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum . My biggest issue is the fence , and I would recommend getting a Beisemeyer fence .
My first saw was a Delta contractor saw with the beisemeyer fence and it was a pleasure to use .
As time went on I became more concerned with controlling the dust situation , so I have purchaced a cabinet saw . 
I've seen other saws and if you compromise on the fence , getting things aligned properly can be a daunting task and ruin the whole experience . 

I've also found that I'd prefer to go back to a 32" fence instead of a 53" , and use a track saw for cutting large sheet goods instead of using my table saw. I didn't know about track saws till I joined here , and had I known I would have saved myself some space and some other headaches . Plus track saws are great for accuracy and cutting angles . 
Just my 2cents

Btw thank you for filling out your profile. You may want to put your first name where it says first name below your avatar


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## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

Thanks just filled out my profile details. The Bosch appears to be available here as the same model upgrade to your 4100. The Makita MLT100 appears to be the same as your 2705. The Dewalt seems to be the identical model. Just getting mixed reviews as some say the Dewalt is the best but is has a very small cutting are (if that is the correct term) whereas the Makita and Bosch have the extension on the sides you can take out. Soem say that the Makita is a bit flimsy with the fench being a bit wobbly and the cross cut guide also wobbly. The Bosch seems to have the best reviews. My real question is one able to cut hardwoods with these contractor saws?


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Can you show some pictures of what you want to make. It sounds like you might be just getting started [we all start some where]. The bigger your tables the bigger your saw needs to be as a general rule. If you are going to make really nice tables you will need a jointer and a thickness planer. Don't get me wrong you don't have to have everything at once. I doubt if there is a single person on this forum that started out with everything. That is part of the fun of it all.

I say start out with the best saw you can afford and have room for. Don't be afraid to buy good used equipment. Just don't buy cheaply made equipment you will be very sorry.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Lyndon , I think of the three choices ypur going to get more thumbs up on the Bosch from what I've read here in the past .
As I mentioned the fence is very important to me . Hopefully someone here has that model and can confirm the quality of the fence.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

hawkeye10 said:


> I say start out with the best saw you can afford and have room for. Don't be afraid to buy good used equipment. Just don't buy cheaply made equipment you will be very sorry.


Good advise


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Lyndon; welcome!
Some background info.
-look at the full load amp rating on the motors. Manufacturers are notorious for overstating the _HP ratings_ of power tools. 
-The larger the diameter of the blade, the more effort is required to do the same amount of work...it's only the tip of the blade that's involved in cutting.
-you can use an 8" blade on a 10" saw, but obviously not the reverse. ie for more energy at the tip, on 1"+ thick hardwood, try using the 8" instead of 10" blade.
-over on this side of the pond, a 110v motor requires a 15 amp. cct. No skimping on wire size! 12ga preferred. 
A _thin kerf_ 40+ tooth blade, clean and sharp, will cut hardwood no problem assuming everything else is up to scratch

Did I mention Bosch?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Lyndon , I think of the three choices ypur going to get more thumbs up on the Bosch from what I've read here in the past .
> As I mentioned the fence is very important to me . Hopefully someone here has that model and can confirm the quality of the fence.


I purchase a Bosch 4100 several months ago. I am more then happy with the fence. It locks up solid and is easily adjustable. I have made an auxiliary fence that slips over the stock fence which make its versatility even greater.

If you decide on the Bosch (you WON'T go wrong) then make sure of what you are getting. The fence extensions are not included with the saw. They are listed as accessories in the US. 

The 4100's come with a folding mobile stand, which I love. It is easy to move and folds up to a small footprint for storage. The two added extensions (outfeed and left side) were about $50 USD. 

Another selling point. The Bosch is the only contractor's size saw that will accept and function with a DADO blade. None of the others that you mentioned will do this.


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## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

Dont have my own thicknesser and jointer but have access to one which was why I did not include them as my own tools.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*Bosch GTS-10 XC*

Looks like this is your saw, Lyndon. This is the one that will do anything that you need.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Welcome to the forum . My biggest issue is the fence , and I would recommend getting a Beisemeyer fence .
> My first saw was a Delta contractor saw with the beisemeyer fence and it was a pleasure to use .
> As time went on I became more concerned with controlling the dust situation , so I have purchaced a cabinet saw .
> I've seen other saws and if you compromise on the fence , getting things aligned properly can be a daunting task and ruin the whole experience .
> ...


what in the world are you talking about Rick...
apples to oranges???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Lyndon Holder said:


> Good day need some advice before making the wrong purchase. I am a DIY enthusiast that wants to do some manufacturing of side tables, dining tables etc. Dont have much space so have been contemplating a purchase of what you guys refer to as a shop saw. In South Africa I can currently get the Bosch GTS-10 XC, the Makita MLT100 or the Dewalt DW745. I will be wanting to use woods like pallet wood, supawood, pine and certain hardwoods like saligna, oak, cyprus, mahogany. Which would be the best bet for me to buy? They are all the same price give or take a few R500. Currently I can get the Makita for almost R3000 ($200 less as it is on promo). However most reviews seem to say not the Makita but rather get the Bosch. I thank you all in advance.


I believe the Makita will leave you wanting...
I had the NA version of that one...
gave it away..
Parts and CS for DeWalt is a gamble IMO...
I've learned not to stock any faith in the COMPANY...
2 owners of that saw that I know got rid of them and went over to Bosch after using mine..

now the Bosch...
the 4100 is our comparable model and if you read what the owners/members here say about them...
a family of happy campers they are...
and the Bosch will take a full dado stack as where the others won't...
Bosch Customer Service (CS) is 2nd to none... 
the Bosch won't care what woods you feed to it... it will deal w/ them very nicely...
or non-ferrous metal and plastics within reason and the correct blades...

*WHY BOSCH...*

2nd to none CS and support that's absolutely painless...
They respect us, the consumer...
tools that are real work horses...
they last a very long time...
they protect my bottom line...

I think/believe Bosch to be an outstanding company... they seem to always man up to any found problems in a heartbeat... quite unlike most of the other tool manufactures/companies...
I just had a problem with two of their 1617 routers... a really old abused one and and a new one out of the box.. (it sounded terrible - gravely).... only took a day and all is well even with the old one and I never had to leave the shop.....
I have a lot of their tools...and I mean a lot... I started using Bosch in the late 70's... since then, they've have proven themselves dependable and have yet to let me down... Bosch has come through, within reason and not, to my benefit...
less down time, less hassles, less additional monies spent, longevity... 
planned obsolesce isn't an issue and less all around grief... 
they have proven to me that they are most cost effective track record w/ any of their products over and over again...

if you don't mind mediocre and disposable along with the associated trials and tribulations.... buy "other" I'll stay with Bosch... I've learned my lessons...

Everything may not be always a bed of roses but Bosch sure seems to bust their butt to clear or deal with of as many of the thorns as possible so you don't have to......


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Every single Bosch tool I own has performed incredibly well and arrived in good condition and in adjustment. I was comparing the competing saws yesterday at a store and the Bosch was larger, more solid, and had the ability to extend the fence to fit larger cuts. That would be my choice for a saw in this class.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Lyndon Holder said:


> Thanks just filled out my profile details. The Bosch appears to be available here as the same model upgrade to your 4100. The Makita MLT100 appears to be the same as your 2705. The Dewalt seems to be the identical model. Just getting mixed reviews as some say the Dewalt is the best but is has a very small cutting are (if that is the correct term) whereas the Makita and Bosch have the extension on the sides you can take out. Soem say that the Makita is a bit flimsy with the fench being a bit wobbly and the cross cut guide also wobbly. The Bosch seems to have the best reviews. My real question is one able to cut hardwoods with these contractor saws?


Any saw will cut hardwoods but blade and feed speed come into play as well as depth of cut. The more teeth you are driving, the more power you need to drive them. Cutting 3" (77 mm) thick material will be an exercise in frustration no matter what setup you have for a small saw unless the wood is very soft. A thin kerf balde will have less resistance than a full kerf but cut quality may be worse (but not necessarily unacceptable). Blade stabilizers can help with a thin kerf blade regarding cut quality. 10" (25cm) blades with only about 18 teeth (rip blades usually) will cut more easily than blades with 40 teeth.

A sturdy, accurate, stable fence is the most important feature on a saw. Without one results will be poor and using it will be frustrating. Out feed extensions are also very helpful and I know Bosch has it on some of their saws. As was suggested, don't be afraid to buy a good used saw. Lots of woodworkers will upgrade to a bigger better saw if they stick with the hobby and there is nothing wrong with many of these saws.


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## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

*Help appreciated*

Thanks all for the advice. Guess it will be the Bosch that I end up going with. Just hope that our service here is as good as your in USA. Remember here in South Africa when 25 countries are rated for service, we come 99th  Service is unfortunately something that we do not have no matter which company you deal with. Was hoping that everyone would say that the Makita was the best option as at the moment it is $200 cheaper but you buy cheap you gets birds  thanks again


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## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

By the way apparently our version of the 4100, GTS-10 XC does not accept dado blades(which as a newbie I had to find out what they were  )


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Lyndon Holder said:


> By the way apparently our version of the 4100, GTS-10 XC does not accept dado blades(which as a newbie I had to find out what they were  )


Apparently, what we take for granted, as a must have here in the States, is verboten in some countries across the pond. Then again, you folks have some features and models of tools that we wish were readily available here. 

You WILL NOT be unhappy with the Bosch. Customer Service is a very important component to the majority of "us" when we purchase a tool. However, it is only as good as the people running the program. Here, that service is outstanding in my personal experience. 

The saving grace with the Bosch is, that, you shouldn't (and probably won't) have any issues with the tool, ever. They are well built and designed.

I had to laugh when I compared the Makita to the quality of the Bosch. No matter what the price difference was the Makita was a non-starter for me. I guess there is a reason that there is a huge sales discount on this saw. Remember, you get what you pay for. The best price is not always the best deal.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> what in the world are you talking about Rick...
> apples to oranges???


Ummm, just trying to get you going


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Lyndon Holder said:


> By the way apparently our version of the 4100, GTS-10 XC does not accept dado blades(which as a newbie I had to find out what they were  )


the PRO model doesn't???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Ummm, just trying to get you going


you mean you don't know either......


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks, Bill, for bringing up the dado issue! It probably would have slipped under the radar if you hadn't.
Question really now is, why _won't_ a dado stack fit on the Bosch on the SA version? Arbor too short for the full set, or something to do with the included plate? 
If it's that, it's the same for every new saw(?).

Maybe Bosch in South Africa will be able to explain why.
Bosch in South Africa | Bosch South Africa
Get in touch with Bosch | Contact Form | Bosch South Africa

Lyndon; if you figure out what's going on with the dado thing, you could order a set from The US (or Canada).


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## Lyndon Holder (Jun 26, 2016)

I might be mistaken but I watched a Youtube clip by some guy from Uk (we use the same model) and he apologised that they dont take the dado blade. if I am correct the arbor is too short.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Lyndon Holder said:


> I might be mistaken but I watched a Youtube clip by some guy from Uk (we use the same model) and he apologised that they dont take the dado blade. if I am correct the arbor is too short.


Contact your local Bosch CS and inquire. There must be a reason. Have them explain why or why not. You, now, have us curious!

A good telltale is if they sell a Dado throat plate as an accessory for the saw. If they do sell one, then rest assured one will fit. Again, they may not be "allowed" in your neck of the world.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I've got the DW745. It was accurate out of the box, no problem with the fence which can be adjusted as a half fence. Dust collection with my shop vac, via separator, works fairly well, although some sawdust is on the floor underneath as site/contractor saws are not exactly air sealed due to their nature. The only thing I'm not so keen on is the volume. It doesn't spin up to a slight whine, it screams. But I wear ear defenders with all power tools anyway. Not sure about comparison of volumes between DW, Makita and Bosch.

Parts for the DW are easy to get, here anyway.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> I've got the DW745. It was accurate out of the box, no problem with the fence which can be adjusted as a half fence. Dust collection with my shop vac, via separator, works fairly well, although some sawdust is on the floor underneath as site/contractor saws are not exactly air sealed due to their nature. The only thing I'm not so keen on is the volume. It doesn't spin up to a slight whine, it screams. But I wear ear defenders with all power tools anyway. Not sure about comparison of volumes between DW, Makita and Bosch.
> 
> Parts for the DW are easy to get, here anyway.


Angie, out of curiosity can you use Dado Blades in GB or are they a no-no?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Angie; does it make the same amount of noise no matter what blade is mounted? Have you turned it on with no blade installed, for comparison?
I used to have a circ. saw that was incredibly noisy; no idea why. Not metal against metal or bearings, just screamed as Angie said.
Both my old Dewalt Sawcat and my new Bosch circ. saws are pretty quiet, even when they're actually cutting
Maybe the cooling fan on the arbor? Basically the same concept as a siren.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I recall Phil P saying that they purposely make the arbors too short on European saws so that they won't accept a dado set. They (those governments) believe them to be unsafe for some reason I believe Phil said.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

schnewj said:


> Angie, out of curiosity can you use Dado Blades in GB or are they a no-no?


Dado blades are not illegal despite what many so-called knowledgeable people have said, however, site saws are not built to take oa set. The arbors are too short. I did see one guys way round it by welding an extension onto the arbor but this, in my mind, has 2 problems. Safety, and safety. :wink:



DaninVan said:


> Angie; does it make the same amount of noise no matter what blade is mounted?...........


Sound pressure (dB) 109 direct from the manual. Haven't tried it without a blade, but I doubt I'd be able to cut anything with the saw then :lol:

The Makita 2712 has 105dB (according to manual) but is 12" not 10" as th DW745 is.

The Bosch Gts10XC is 10" and is 98dB (the manual). But it also has a "sound power level" of 111dB.

ALL state wear hearing protection so sound volume for me was irrelevant.

The price was though. Currently prices here in the UK are
DW £399
Makita £326
Bosch £569


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I recall Phil P saying that they purposely make the arbors too short on European saws so that they won't accept a dado set. They (those governments) believe them to be unsafe for some reason I believe Phil said.


It's only the site saws that have this problem. A table saw blade has to stop in 10 or less seconds, and the extra weight with a dado blade would mean it would breach that limit. Cabinet saws have brakes built in so they are ok, site saws do not have adequate braking for added blade weight.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

schnewj said:


> I purchase a Bosch 4100 several months ago. I am more then happy with the fence. It locks up solid and is easily adjustable. I have made an auxiliary fence that slips over the stock fence which make its versatility even greater.
> 
> If you decide on the Bosch (you WON'T go wrong) then make sure of what you are getting. The fence extensions are not included with the saw. They are listed as accessories in the US.
> 
> ...


I also have the Bosch 4100 and I am totally pleased with it. The fence is solid and locks down nicely. It does accept the dado which I use quite a bit. As for cutting your hardwoods, don't forget to scan your pallets for old nails, screws, staples,etc., and buy the best blade you can afford. I have several Freuds and am very fond of their blades. Good luck and welcome to the forum.


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## Wildwood (Aug 14, 2010)

Hi Lyndon - welcome to the forum, from Wilderness in the Southern Cape. Unfortunately I am not in a position to advise you, as I have no experience with the contractor saws you are looking at. I have been using a Triton Work Centre for the past 16 years, which fills all my needs for the custom furniture that I make. I also can't use a dado blade because of the nature of the Workcentre, but it would be a very useful feature if you are able to use one. But I would agree that its hard to go wrong with a Bosch product.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> you mean you don't know either......


Actaully you called it .I thought you knew me better?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> It's only the site saws that have this problem. A table saw blade has to stop in 10 or less seconds, and the extra weight with a dado blade would mean it would breach that limit. Cabinet saws have brakes built in so they are ok, site saws do not have adequate braking for added blade weight.


Thanks for the info, Angie. It's a shame that they prevent you from using a Dado stack on the smaller saws. It is very easy and cheap to incorporate an electronic brake on the motor. 

I understand the safety concern, but is the whirly thing on the saw any different then a router, jointer, et. al.? First rule keep you fingers away, don't do anything until it stops spinning, etc.


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## David Dickson (Oct 30, 2015)

*Proud Owner of a Bosch GTS 10 XC*



Lyndon Holder said:


> By the way apparently our version of the 4100, GTS-10 XC does not accept dado blades(which as a newbie I had to find out what they were  )


Lyndon,
I am the proud owner of a Bosch GTS 10 XC. I am very, very happy with its construction and performance. This saw has done everything I have ever asked of it. Any failings have been down to my inexperience or impatience.
:lol:

I would thoroughly recommend this contractor's saw. Here is some more information on it:- 
Bosch GTS 10 XC 254mm Table Saw - Table Saws & Saw Benches - Saws - Machinery | Axminster Tools & Machinery
Take a look at the video for a better idea of its capabilities. The fence is rock solid and perfectly parallel with the blade, easy to adjust and set accurately. My only minor issue is with the very slight sideways play and the slight stiffness of the mitre slide. It comes with accessories which are optional extras on the 4100. It is available in 240V (for home use) and 110V (for site use) versions. And Bosch's customer support is second to none.

As for dado blades, please refer to this article:-
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/38123-bosch-gts-10xc-dados-thanks-rcp16.html
I have converted my Bosch GTS 10 XC to accept a Freud Super 8 dado stack. I followed the instructions in the above post (more or less*), with one addition - the riving knife on the GTS 10 XC slides up to allow the fitting of the safety guard and down (level with the top of the blade) for safe storage, but it won't go down below the top of the 10" blade, so when an 8" dado stack is fitted, the riving knife is in the way. I took a look at the parts diagrams for both the 4100 and the GTS 10 XC and spotted that the slot in the riving knife for the 4100 runs almost the entire length of the riving knife, but for the GTS 10 XC, it only extends half way along. I could not determine if the 4100 version would fit the GTS 10 XC, so I bought a second GTS 10 XC riving knife, took it along to my local engineering shop and asked them to extend the slot. This modified riving knife now goes down far enough to allow the use of the 8" dado stack.

*What I found was that I did not have the tools or the skills to remove the old arbor myself, and after discussions with my local engineering shop, they disassembled the machine, pulled the bearing out, fitted the new arbor and new bearing for me. They said it needed a 200 ton press to drive the bearing in. So, although I didn't do all of the work myself, I now have a Bosch GTS 10 XC that will take a dado stack up to 3/4" or 18mm.
:smile:
I plan to do a full article on this, when I can find the time.:grin:

.


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## waynecochran (Aug 2, 2011)

Welcome Lyndon, The only real advice I can give you is to use quality saw blades, ie frued fusion series. It took me a long time to figure this out for myself. I saw big performance increase with good tablesaw blades, even my old taiwanese made bandsaw is fun to use with quality blades. Have fun shopping!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Great stuff, David! Thanks for taking the time to post that; excellent info!!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

David Dickson said:


> As for dado blades, please refer to this article:-
> http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/38123-bosch-gts-10xc-dados-thanks-rcp16.html
> I have converted my Bosch GTS 10 XC to accept a Freud Super 8 dado stack. I followed the instructions in the above post (more or less*), with one addition - the riving knife on the GTS 10 XC slides up to allow the fitting of the safety guard and down (level with the top of the blade) for safe storage, but it won't go down below the top of the 10" blade, so when an 8" dado stack is fitted, the riving knife is in the way. I took a look at the parts diagrams for both the 4100 and the GTS 10 XC and spotted that the slot in the riving knife for the 4100 runs almost the entire length of the riving knife, but for the GTS 10 XC, it only extends half way along. I could not determine if the 4100 version would fit the GTS 10 XC, so I bought a second GTS 10 XC riving knife, took it along to my local engineering shop and asked them to extend the slot. This modified riving knife now goes down far enough to allow the use of the 8" dado stack.
> 
> ...


Super info, thanks David. Although it would add additional cost for the modified riving knife and arbor, the benefits of being able to use a Dado Stack would more than pay for the added expense.

These contractor sized saws are great for those who are space limited. Why should you penalized because of this?

I'm sure that more then one of us will be interested in an article outlining the conversion. It would be a great reference for the members who find themselves in this position.


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