# Poly Patina...who is she...?



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm in the final stages of repairing a floor plagued by two common ailments..."wee doggee pee" and "...leak somewhere"

Boards have been cut out and replaced...glued and nailed...no squeaks. I even managed to keep most of the tongue and groove in the new boards...

Now it's time to stain/poly...(just a few more to go)

You might recognize the floor color..."Polly Patina"...years of light discoloring what used to be a nice natural look...

The floor was originally poly'ed only...and now it's got that orangey/yellowey look to it...

Oh, woe is me...now how to duplicate that patina...? Sanding the whole floor and redoing is not an option...although I've offered it...

Minwax products I've tried already...Golden Oak, Ipswitch, Natural
Other products...Amber Shellac
Mixes I've tried...Shellac/Golden, Shellac/Poly

Most of the attempts have yielded a brownish rather than orange'ish...Wish I could still find my favorite "Gym Seal"

I gotta imagine you guys have run into this before...

Thanks in advance...Nick


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

dye added to the poly...
follow the color wheel...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I never gave the customers an option; "We're sanding the whole floor."
If we didn't, and they didn't like the results, you know who was on the hook, eh?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Along the lines of what Dan is saying, you could match the color now but what will it look like after it gets it's own patina?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

I agree with Chuck. You could match using something like Trans Tint, but the color will change with the age, and the patina of the new pieces as it changes. Those new pieces will eventually darken down no matter what you do to match them to the existing floor.

I would let them know up front that you will match the color as best you can, but that it will change in the future and you can't be held responsible. The only real solution, Nick, is to sand it all down and finish it the same.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I like the way it looks now lol


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I like the way it looks now lol


You mean unfinished...? >


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

More info...customer finished it 4 years ago...used spar varnish only...no stain.

Got some in the garage so will do a test piece on Sunday...

Which one of you guys bought up all the gym seal in the world...? I know...that VOC thing actually killed it all.

Thanks for the sound advice...gonna take another shot at her on Sunday when I will show her all the cans of stuff I tried...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Nickp said:


> More info...customer finished it 4 years ago...used spar varnish only...no stain.
> 
> Got some in the garage so will do a test piece on Sunday...
> 
> ...


Well, if it was done four years ago, then just use the same spar varnish (which I personally wouldn't have used) and wait another four years for the new stuff to patina to match.

Rots of ruck Relroy!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Well, if it was done four years ago, then just use the same spar varnish (which I personally wouldn't have used) and wait another four years for the new stuff to patina to match.
> 
> Rots of ruck Relroy!


and put the rest of the floor in stasis till then...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

tint to match...
make it look good...
sell the place...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> and put the rest of the floor in stasis till then...


Finish the floor, cover it with (shudder) laminate until the patina shows up!>>>


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Or...
Vinyl Wood Flooring from Armstrong Flooring


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

or wall to wall carpet..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

lienolium..


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*It's Shy*



schnewj said:


> Finish the floor, cover it with (shudder) laminate until the patina shows up!>>>


Heh...that'll be a long wait, Bill! It needs air and UV to colour up.:crying:


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Heh...that'll be a long wait, Bill! It needs air and UV to colour up.:crying:


Maybe I'll hang some black lights, a disco ball, some loud thumping music...open up the place for a few weeks...nobody will notice the difference... ? :grin::grin::grin:

I'm having too much fun with this...you guys are killing me...LOL


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Let There Be Light*



Nickp said:


> Maybe I'll hang some black lights, a disco ball, some loud thumping music...open up the place for a few weeks...nobody will notice the difference... ? :grin::grin::grin:
> 
> I'm having too much fun with this...you guys are killing me...LOL


YeH! https://glowproducts.com/us/glowsticks
>


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> YeH! https://glowproducts.com/us/glowsticks
> >


YEAH...that's the ticket !


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> YeH! https://glowproducts.com/us/glowsticks
> >


when he's done w/ them on the floor he can put them on his truck...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nickp said:


> You mean unfinished...? >


Yes . I like those differant contrasts


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

add more of them and make it a design feature...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Heh...that'll be a long wait, Bill! It needs air and UV to colour up.:crying:


Details, details, details...:lol:


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## prgl7 (Jun 26, 2011)

I found an oil based stain called 129 Amber Varnish by ZAR that has that orange look from seasoned varnish. You might give that a try. I found it at my local hardware store. Rockler carries it. Google shows many sites that carry it.
George Lepper
Nipomo, California


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

prgl7 said:


> I found an oil based stain called 129 Amber Varnish by ZAR that has that orange look from seasoned varnish. You might give that a try. I found it at my local hardware store. Rockler carries it. Google shows many sites that carry it.
> George Lepper
> Nipomo, California


THANK YOU, George ! ! !

I will definitely check this out...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

done yet...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

*Yowser...! ! !*



prgl7 said:


> I found an oil based stain called 129 Amber Varnish by ZAR that has that orange look from seasoned varnish. You might give that a try. I found it at my local hardware store. Rockler carries it. Google shows many sites that carry it.
> George Lepper
> Nipomo, California


George...you saved me an anxiety attack...darn near a perfect match...you must be a mind reader...or at least have done this once or twice...

THANK YOU...pics to follow...poly next then show n tell...


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## prgl7 (Jun 26, 2011)

Glad I could help.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> done yet...


Neely Dunn...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you fire Brooks???


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Except for another coat of poly, here is the result using George's Zar Amber stain...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that came out great...
be proud..


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## prgl7 (Jun 26, 2011)

*Different ways ways to get the color*

Good job. It blended well. You can be proud of a difficult job well done. I came across that stain when I repair a baptismal font and had to find the right color stain. I had to combine several different colors to find the right shade. In the past I have used artist oils to match stains. I was given the recipe at an adult education furniture refinishing class. A penetrating oil stain uses 1 part boiled linseed oil, 3parts turpentine pigmented oil colors (artist's oil paint). Another recipe is 1 cup paint thinner or turpentine, pigmented colors in oil to the density you wish, linseed oil -added to retard drying time necessary. If you are brushing on finish, add 1 or 2 tablespoons varnish or varithaine. This will make your stain dry hard and when you apply your finish, you won't pick up stain. Maple uses raw sienna, raw umber, and burnt umber. Walnut uses burnt umber, raw umber, and Van **** brown. Re mahogany uses burnt umber and Venetian red (use sparingly). Brown mahogany uses burnt umber and a touch on Venetian red (if necessary). Cherry uses raw sienna, Venetian red (sparingly), and burnt umber. Pecan uses raw sienna, raw umber, van **** brown, depending on what shade pecan you want. Start with raw sienna then add other colors as desired. Fruitwood uses raw sienna and burnt umber. Add burnt umber to darken stain. Fruitwood is darker than maple. I don't have the colors for oak, but with all the different oak stains out there it hasn't been a problem.. This recipe was given to me by Mel Wylie the class instructor 36 years ago.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you can`t tell and we can`t tell then you succeeded.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

@prgl7

George, I had a feeling you had seen this "once or twice"...

Obviously you've mastered the art of finishing...hoping I'll be there one of these days but I'm sure I don't have 36 years left in me...

Besides the technical component of finishing in your post I think what I got out of it is to seek out a similar class as you described...it will help to see through that shroud of magic and wizardry we newbies typically see in finishing/matching.

In the meantime, can you recommend some good reading on the subject...?

Thank you once again...I'm sure this past project will not be the last you hear from me...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

prgl7 said:


> Good job. It blended well. You can be proud of a difficult job well done. I came across that stain when I repair a baptismal font and had to find the right color stain. I had to combine several different colors to find the right shade. In the past I have used artist oils to match stains. I was given the recipe at an adult education furniture refinishing class. A penetrating oil stain uses 1 part boiled linseed oil, 3parts turpentine pigmented oil colors (artist's oil paint). Another recipe is 1 cup paint thinner or turpentine, pigmented colors in oil to the density you wish, linseed oil -added to retard drying time necessary. If you are brushing on finish, add 1 or 2 tablespoons varnish or varithaine. This will make your stain dry hard and when you apply your finish, you won't pick up stain. Maple uses raw sienna, raw umber, and burnt umber. Walnut uses burnt umber, raw umber, and Van **** brown. Re mahogany uses burnt umber and Venetian red (use sparingly). Brown mahogany uses burnt umber and a touch on Venetian red (if necessary). Cherry uses raw sienna, Venetian red (sparingly), and burnt umber. Pecan uses raw sienna, raw umber, van **** brown, depending on what shade pecan you want. Start with raw sienna then add other colors as desired. Fruitwood uses raw sienna and burnt umber. Add burnt umber to darken stain. Fruitwood is darker than maple. I don't have the colors for oak, but with all the different oak stains out there it hasn't been a problem.. This recipe was given to me by Mel Wylie the class instructor 36 years ago.


George, out of curiosity, is there a set amount of the raw pigments (ratios) to add or is it just add, blend and adjust?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you can`t tell and we can`t tell then you succeeded.


we be good at secrets...


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## prgl7 (Jun 26, 2011)

There is no ratio that I have or know of. When I seek to match a shade I will start with a color and then slowly add other colors to lighten or darken or to add different hues. It is for me an add, blend and adjust process. Someone out there probably could give you ratios, but remember we are trying to match a color that there isn't already a premixed stain. Also, most of my experience has been a learn by doing. I have found that wood working magazines often have finishing tips and that back issues can be obtained digitally. You can then search for answers using those back issues. I have used Wood magazine, Woodsmith, Shopnotes, Popular Woodworking, and Wood worker's Journal. There are many tips, hints, ideas, plans, jigs, pictures of what others have done. I have also found that Pinterest is a good resource for these things as well. Hope that answers your questions.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

prgl7 said:


> There is no ratio that I have or know of. When I seek to match a shade I will start with a color and then slowly add other colors to lighten or darken or to add different hues. It is for me an add, blend and adjust process. Someone out there probably could give you ratios, but remember we are trying to match a color that there isn't already a premixed stain. Also, most of my experience has been a learn by doing. I have found that wood working magazines often have finishing tips and that back issues can be obtained digitally. You can then search for answers using those back issues. I have used Wood magazine, Woodsmith, Shopnotes, Popular Woodworking, and Wood worker's Journal. There are many tips, hints, ideas, plans, jigs, pictures of what others have done. I have also found that Pinterest is a good resource for these things as well. Hope that answers your questions.


I suspected as much. Thanks for the clarification.


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