# Power switch for router table?



## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Okay fellas, need your thoughts. Am building a router table. Base etc is done and top is on....no doors or drawers yet. I have seen videos etc. of guys that appear to be using ONE switch to turn on router AND small vacuum at same time. I talked with two guys at local big box places and they say "oh sure, nothing to it. Just take this switch and wire router and vacuum into it. Just cut the plugs off router and vacuum and wire them to this switch."
Well, I bought one of the switches...but upon reflection I deemed it sorta goofy to cut the plug off my router and my vacuum. Switch went into Reject drawer (with a bunch of other stuff) and I am back to square one.
This CAN'T be that hard to do. It's not a big deal if I can't do things that way-just thought it would be nice. Just making this base etc. is a MAJOR challenge to somebody like me.
As you boys know, I'm not a real woodworker.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i know i will get a lot of no no's but i have a light switch and outlet in an electrical outlet box. the outlet is controlled by the switch and i plug the router and vac into it. one switch turns both on.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*IMHO: Never cut off the plug!*



Birch said:


> Okay fellas, need your thoughts. Am building a router table. Base etc is done and top is on....no doors or drawers yet. I have seen videos etc. of guys that appear to be using ONE switch to turn on router AND small vacuum at same time. I talked with two guys at local big box places and they say "oh sure, nothing to it. Just take this switch and wire router and vacuum into it. Just cut the plugs off router and vacuum and wire them to this switch."
> Well, I bought one of the switches...but upon reflection I deemed it sorta goofy to cut the plug off my router and my vacuum. Switch went into Reject drawer (with a bunch of other stuff) and I am back to square one.
> This CAN'T be that hard to do. It's not a big deal if I can't do things that way-just thought it would be nice. Just making this base etc. is a MAJOR challenge to somebody like me.
> As you boys know, I'm not a real woodworker.


*IMHO: Never cut off the plug!*

Get a 4" sq deep junction box (1/2" knockouts) with a cover that would accommodate a switch and an outlet.
Buy a single 1/2" romex connector.
Also buy a 20 amp rated switch and an outlet.
If you don't have a sacrificial extension cord around, also buy at least 6-8 feet of 12/2 w-g line cord and a plug for it.

I'll diagram it up after I take my dogs for their nightly walk and add it to this post.
Diagram Follows:









*I will give a pictorial as time permits in a later response to this post.*
Decided not to because later post showed a reasonable device that would fulfill requirements,) 

But food for thought, look at the one I put on my home-brew router/table-saw extension *here*.

*One important point! Make darn sure you locate it where you can REMOVE or UNPLUG the router when you do bit changes!*

Cordially,
Gerry


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Gerry,

that sounds very familiar, lol just teasing. it does work very well though and with my new craftsman pro with the soft start and my shopvac it sounds neat when you turn it on. it has a neat sound coming up to speed.


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## Bruceh (Feb 7, 2009)

Hi Fatz,

I totally agree with the other responses. Never cut off the ends unless they are defective.

I'd also like to reiterate what Gerry said. Buy the 4" gang box and most important buy a 20 amp switch and receptacle. The 15 amp are probably under a dollar the 20 amp is probably $3.00+. But when loading up more than one tool at a time you need the 20 amp. Buying a short length of 12/2 with ground, extension cord to use as your main feed to the 4" box is a must as well. You will also need to buy a male 3 prong plug to wire on the end of the cord. Cut off 2 pieces of 12" off of the extension cord to use as internal box wiring.

Wiring the whole thing up is quite easy. The black of the new 20 12/2 extension cord will attach to one of the screws of the switch.

Take the the 3 wires out of the 12/2 12" extension cord that you cut off earlier. Use the black wire and connect one end to the other screw of the switch and the other end to the copper colored screw of the recepticle. The white wire of the main feed cord is attached to the silver screw of the recepticle. The green wire (ground) is a little more complicated as it needs to ground the 4" box (if it is metal) and the switch and the recepticle. 

You will need a wire nut, a little cone shape connector that will attach several cords together. It will need to be either a red one or a grey one. The coloring denotes how many wires it can connect together.

Let's assume the worse case scenerio and that you have a metal box. You will need to attach, with the connector, the green wire from the main feed to 3 other short pieces of (preferably) green wires. Once these are connected together, you will then attach one of those to the grounding screw in the box and the grounding screws of the switch and recepticle.

Earlier I mentioned to cut of 2 - 12" pieces from your 12/2 main feed cord. That will give you 2 greens to use and if you have a plastic box but are missing one if you have a metal box.

An electrical inspector would have a fit if you used one of the extra white or black ones. They will function as good as a green one - it's just not up to color code.

Hope this helps
Bruce


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I have 2 outlets, one in the cabinet and one outside at the rear for the vac and or any other item I might want to use. 
Power comes in from back to the switch at the front (regular light switch) from the switch to the router outlet then back to the rear outlet.


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## Microsuffer (Aug 7, 2008)

Buy an emergency cutoff switch and plug your router into that before plugging the switch box cord into your power distribution. The last thing you want to do is be fumbling with a standard wall switch when power has to be cut now. They are very cheap insurance even at 10x the 20A switch. Set up, if you really want it, a quad outlet as noted above and plug the cutoff into it. Leave the cutoff switch on and switch power to both with the standard wall switch.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*Very good advice too!*
Cordially,
Gerry


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Wo w! Thanks fellas, especially Gerard for going to the trouble of creating a diagram. All the advice is clear and valuable. I will proceed. Still want to get some additional stuff done to the base (cabinet) before I fix up switching. Bought the cheap little vacuum yesterday. Looked at the Fein but had to take TWO of the BIG pills when I saw the price! Yikes. Sure appreciate your guidance folks. I hope some day I can be of assistance to somebody else.


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## Ross72 (Jan 1, 2009)

Hey Birch just another option that doesn't require as much work. I had a switch go on one of my store bought router table and wanted to replace. I went to sears and they sell a "router table switch" w/2 plug ins for about $9. If you go this route you don't need to bother with the junction box, just plug the switch into an outlet and flip it on. Also, the one I bought was on clearance for $5 and had a removeable safety key to prevent accidental start up.

Ross


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Something like this is a heck of a lot simpler and faster and definitely better for the person who does not want to mess with electrical at all.. I have had two for many years with no problems.

There are many brands this is one:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00924031000P


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Holy smokes Ross, that is JUST what we ALL need. Am I understanding right: router into one switch and vacuum into the other? From SEARS? Why didn't we ALL know about that?
Life just can't be THAT easy.
Oh. Just checked SEARS site and no such thing shows up there?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yeah it does I have two of them did you click on the link?

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00924031000P


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

OKAY GANG.......GOT ONE!!! Should be here in a couple days.
Thanks again.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Rockler and Woodcraft also sell a more expensive commercial type quality unit as well, but they cost 30.00 or more though.


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## Ross72 (Jan 1, 2009)

Hi Fatz, glad I could help.

Hey Nick, Thanx for posting the link, I couldn't find it.

Ross


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I had a friend and his died out, mine never did they still work fine.

Sears gave him a new one 6 months after purchase so if that happens to anyone definitely ask for a replacement.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*This is one of those "special" posts that Mark....*



nickao65 said:


> Yeah it does I have two of them did you click on the link?
> 
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00924031000P


*IMHO:
This is one of those "special" posts that Mark may want to have in that new area for tips that he was contemplating!
*
*For the price and functionality, Birch, I would definitely say it is the way to go for you!*










Now aren't you glad you didn't cut the plugs off?

LOL

Cordially,
Gerry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerry

This post (your post) Mark / Mike/ Bob should setup as a sticky note.

It's a good one , I have use this type for a long time in all my router tables, you can put one in place for about 5.oo dollars or less..I will say if you want the vac.to start up at the same time use a 20 amp. switch that you can get from any HD/Lowers/hardware store..

you will see a snapshot below if you look hard you will see the switch in place on all of them 

=========



Gerard_sr said:


> *IMHO: Never cut off the plug!*
> 
> Get a 4" sq deep junction box (1/2" knockouts) with a cover that would accommodate a switch and an outlet.
> Buy a single 1/2" romex connector.
> ...


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Hey you guys! Man I would sure look a little stupid now if I was sitting here with two power cords with the plugs cut off wouldn't I?!! Ha!
I THINK the Rockler switch is just for a single tool and does not have the ability to control TWO tools. I'm not positive of that.
I will keep you guys posted when the doo-dad arrives.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*While this is only rated for 15 amps,*



Birch said:


> Hey you guys! Man I would sure look a little stupid now if I was sitting here with two power cords with the plugs cut off wouldn't I?!! Ha!
> I THINK the Rockler switch is just for a single tool and does not have the ability to control TWO tools. I'm not positive of that.
> I will keep you guys posted when the doo-dad arrives.


While this is only rated for 15 amps, I would look for something like it at a box store rated for 20 amps if you only have one outlet on your "doo-dad"...









Available at Harbor Freight.

Cordially,
Gerry


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

I am hoping for great things from this one:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2487

unfortunately it is backordered

I also bought this one:

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2561

and boy, they are not kidding when they say "huge". Still, in a hurry...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

15 amp just is not enough to run a vac at the same time as your router while under loads and especially at start up, 20 amp is best. Though that craftsman is only 15 amp I find it is underrated, hopefully its the same on these you ordered..

You will find these cheaper ones usually burn out pretty fast when running two tools, I have tried them, but not this exact unit. Let us know how it goes over time.

That first switch looks an awfully lot like the one woodcraft sells at twice the price!!!

Here is another one I feel is under rated as with my 18 amp drum sander and vac on it, its never melted or even gotten warm, still it is rated 15 amp. Pretty expensive though:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=147369&FamilyID=5855

The one above also has the 7 second delay to keep the vac on longer after the tool is turned off which helps a lot when running a tool with a vac.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I just picked up a Freud Power Switch at the wood show last weekend. The part number is FPS01. It's a 20A 120V with a 10' heavy duty 14 gauge power cord and two plugs. It's available in Canada at the Tool Store https://www.thetoolstore.ca/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1265
and I think they may ship to the U.S.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That looks sweet! I'll give it a try.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Here's my set-up and the wiring plan from the April 1995 American Woodworker mag. I've been running this since Sept 97. 

I like this set-up, no add-ons and keeps the floor less cluttered. 
The 5' is in reference to the total length of wiring required


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*Thanks for showing this Ronald*



Ghidrah said:


> Here's my set-up and the wiring plan from the April 1995 American Woodworker mag. I've been running this since Sept 97.
> 
> I like this set-up, no add-ons and keeps the floor less cluttered.
> The 5' is in reference to the total length of wiring required


*Thanks for showing this Ronald*, that's something I forgot to mention. It can be installed with normal in-the-wall type electrical boxes to sort of build it into a cabinet! Surface mount boxes, like I used and have been recommending, are not the only way to do it!
There are very many variations based on the need for one switch to turn on two items.

Cordially,
Gerry

Addendum:
For those that can not see Ronald's diagram too well, I took the liberty of redrawing it below.










PS: The Black Tape is an indicator that the wire used is not a neutral wire, it is a conditional hot wire. This method is often times used in house wiring. 
Also, while the original pictorial shows only a ground connection to the boxes, I would recommend also putting in a jumper between the box grounding screw and the device.
Finally, if you use rubber or plastic jacketed electrical cord under clamps, I personally would also put about 5 to 8 wraps of electrical tape around the cord under the clamp to help prevent the clamp from biting through the outer jacket and contacting, (shorting) the wiring.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

It doesn't show it in the diagram I provided, an old trick I saw in the service, when inserting switches and outlets into tight metallic spaces. Wrap the perimeter of the unit with tape to cover the connectors.

P.S.
Gerard sr, how long did it take you to draw that up? At 1st I considered doing that, then I wussed and took the pic instead.
I also ganged all the ground wires in the middle box instead of to each box.


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## Dan Mooney (Feb 2, 2009)

levon said:


> i know i will get a lot of no no's but i have a light switch and outlet in an electrical outlet box. the outlet is controlled by the switch and i plug the router and vac into it. one switch turns both on.


Levon,
I use the same setup with the switch and outlet box, It's been great and no problems.

Dan


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## Larry Strawson (Feb 11, 2009)

Lots of great ideas here......

If you work a lot in your shop you will will be glad you bought a Fein. It is so quiet, I hardly know it is on, especially over the sound of the router or table saw.

And it automatically comes on when plugged into your power tool and runs for a few seconds after. Never forget to turn the vacuum on again........

Also beats burning your shop down if you don't wire your router table correctly...... I would recommend having a journeyman or an inspector inspect your work after it is done.

Don't forget to put some sort of cyclone before the vacuum to save yourself a a lot of time and money

Larry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerry

Great drawing  here's just one more, you may want to draw one up for the UK/AU. members 

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9761-how-wire-one-up.html


=======



Gerard_sr said:


> *Thanks for showing this Ronald*, that's something I forgot to mention. It can be installed with normal in-the-wall type electrical boxes to sort of build it into a cabinet! Surface mount boxes, like I used and have been recommending, are not the only way to do it!
> There are very many variations based on the need for one switch to turn on two items.
> 
> Cordially,
> ...


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*I kinda like doing sketches like that.*

Ronald,
About 15 min, I kinda like doing sketches like that.
Also in the original, they made a Boo-Boo!
They indicated the black tape on a black wire!
LOL!
I've seen the tape around the device trick, I rarely use it because the devices do self center. If one uses crimp-on connectors, rather than attempting stranded wire under the screws, the tape is then a precaution or option.
*The cases I do use the tape* are typically installing a new outlet in an existing wall where I have to use box supports, (attached image), to hold the box in the plasterboard.
Cordially,
Gerry


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Bobj3, 
(Mr. Jigs) you shouldah jumped in quicker with your pic.

Gerry,
Another thing I forgot to mention it's 12/3 cable, so you don't have to ground the box.

Know this, even grounded cable can give you a jolt, being a framer for 29 yrs. I've been jolted many times picking up grounded cable from wet ground and basement floors.

As for the tape thing, yes you can center the switch and outlet in the box, and if their secured tight to the wall or bench with no jostling there's not much chance they'll loosen up and move. In my case I have 4 120v 20 amp outlets in fixed boxes in my shop, but the 5th box is free and used as an extension cord. It gets bumped, kicked and dragged all the time. 

Gerry
I think your schema blow-up is great and others may consider printing it out for future reference.

Shameless plug for "Better Homes & Gardens", In 1981 we built our house. In 83 I framed up the basement and did my own wiring for the 3 rooms. I bought BH&G's "Step-By-Step Basic Wiring" book, it saved us a bundle and kept wifey from cashing in on the life ins policy ← 1st use of smilie ever!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Ghidrah

Yep, I know but sometimes it's hard to recall all the things I have posted  this one was back in Oct. 2008 and your picture rang the bell for me. 

=====



Ghidrah said:


> Bobj3,
> (Mr. Jigs) you shouldah jumped in quicker with your pic.
> 
> Gerry,
> ...


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Ronald,

Thanks for the compliments guy! 

seriously, my friend, you should ground the box. 

With electronic experience from age 7 to my first electrical inspection of a house in 1970, experience is speaking.

A better and safer ground is made by attaching it to the box as well. 
*National Electrical Codes require it.*
(unless the boxes are non-metallic)

You "_could_" get away with it and think the ground to the device will be in contact with the metal box by the device attachment screw, but MY advise is to ground the box.

Cordially,
Gerry

PS: As to picking up a cable from wet ground or a wet basement floor, IMHO:
A good ground might have prevented that. A good ground puts the third prong and the neutral wire at the same electrical potential as the earth by the use of a ground rod or well casing or water pipe in the earth. The new regulations require attachment to a ground rod, a well casing if a well is present, and attachment to a water pipe. They also require a jumper between the hot and cold lines on a water heater and a jumper around a water meter if present. I seriously can't imagine how you could get a jolt if it was grounded properly. Somehow there must have been a crack in the extension cord that allowed moisture and a path for electricity from the black wire to the surface of the cord. A GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter, type outlet or circuit breaker *would have definitely prevented that* by sensing it in microseconds. *I don't doubt it happened to you*, but there must be a logical explanation/deficiency as to why.

And as to re-reading of your basement work,* Good Job!*  <-- Deserves a smile!
Here's a link to the panel box I put in my house.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Gerard,
New frames have temp poles with breakers set on the property with meter and ground rod. I've often wondered that there might be tears, slices or cracks in the cord sleeve and insulators of older cable, (read extension cords) allowing moisture to enter and grounding. 
That's highly probable, too often I lost air and power do to a 10 wheeler sitting on hoses and cords. 

In our area copper plumbing groundings been around since the 70s along with lightning rods.
I don't believe I ever noticed if any of the temp breakers were GFI


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Ron,
*the GFCI stuff is required for all outdoor stuff now, and a good idea in the shop as well.*

They nominally trip at about 5 to 7 mA (milliamp) of leakage, it takes about 20 mA to cause any variation of a human heart beat. Heck, you could be sitting in the bathtub and knock a hairdryer into the tub and it would shut off before you felt anything!
They can be a pain sometimes seemingly tripping when the shouldn't, but typically, that problem can be traced to a faulty cord or excessive moisture.
They will even work with two wires! 
A ground is not necessary! 
The 2-wire method is also accepted by national electrical codes.
Internally they have a bit of electronics that monitors the power going out the narrow prong, (the black or hot side), it also monitors the return through the wide prong, (the white or neutral side). Any difference in the two, like I said 5 to 7 milliamps will shut it off. The difference could be caused by a cracked extension cord with moisture and a path between the black wire and earth. Heck, if it's being used and the crack is on the white side and there is a path for a connection between the white wire and earth, it senses that as well and shuts itself off.

*Excellent items for use around a job site.* They even sell them built into extension cords now.

Take a look at your wife's hair dryer, chances are it even has one built into the plug!

Cordially,
Gerry


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

In our house all outlets to the bathrm, kitchen and outside are GFI breakers. Our electronic equipment, stereo and TV are on surge protectors and the comps on APC back-ups.
We have lousy power distribution in our area, mostly surges and a fair share of brownouts. In the last 5 yrs, (both times during the winter) 2 pole transformers on our street died, sometimes they go quiet sometimes not. 

About 88 or 89 I was roofing a house in Sandwich heard a big bada boom and saw a cloud of whitish smoke/vapor about 2 miles away. The next day the newspaper reported the event.

About a week ago I heard what I think was another go off somewhere within a couple miles.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Well Ron, 
we're getting a little off topic here. 
I tried to send you a PM to that effect, but you don't have that feature turned on in your *account settings*.

So let me close this with a *link* to my little UPS that I installed to keep the VCR running because of drop-outs in my area. Had to do it because if the "momma" doesn't see her soap opera that the VCR records while she's at work, well it's just not pleasant! LOL

*And to all that read this, if you don't have GFCI outlets in your shop, you should seriously consider them!*

http://ourpage.org/ups
Cordially,
Gerry


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Gerard,
I do have PM enabled. I don't know why I didn't get it.


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## jfacteau (Dec 10, 2006)

I bought one from Woodcraft that my router plugs into and it has a bail handle across the front of it to make it easy to hit and turn off. Was well worth the money in my book. Just remember if you have a soft start motor on your router like Porter Cable has you cannot use a variable speed router table switch.


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## jfacteau (Dec 10, 2006)

maybe because it only has a 14 gauge wire inside it. Need 12 gauge to be rated 20 amp


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## Ross72 (Jan 1, 2009)

I found the model # for the switch that I got awhile back. The # is 25188 and sells for about $20. It has 2 plugs on the back of the switch, one for the router and one for shop-vac. It has a paddle covered switch with a removable key.

Ross


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## jfacteau (Dec 10, 2006)

this is the one I got , it was on sale for 34.95 I think
Safety Power Switch#141938


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## Dan Mooney (Feb 2, 2009)

crquack said:


> I am hoping for great things from this one:
> 
> 
> unfortunately it is backordered
> ...


Just a note about Busy Bee Tools, I tried to order one of their switches, but they only ship to Canada. So if you're in the States, you're out of luck.

Dan


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## Michealjohn (Feb 25, 2009)

*Re :*

Hi
Let's assume the worse case scenerio and that you have a metal box. You will need to attach, with the connector, the green wire from the main feed to 3 other short pieces of (preferably) green wires. Once these are connected together, you will then attach one of those to the grounding screw in the box and the grounding screws of the switch and recepticle.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*That's the way it should be done. But....*



Michealjohn said:


> Hi
> Let's assume the worse case scenerio and that you have a metal box. You will need to attach, with the connector, the green wire from the main feed to 3 other short pieces of (preferably) green wires. Once these are connected together, you will then attach one of those to the grounding screw in the box and the grounding screws of the switch and recepticle.


Hi Micheal John,
That's the way it should be done.

But, there are variations that will make it easier and somewhat neater.
Most "box stores" and all electrical distributors have in stock a preformed piece that looks like this:










Notice that on one end there is a U shaped crimp and a screw through a O shaped crimp on the other. What I would suggest is put another crimp connector on the input ground, Take one screw out of one of two of the grounding pigtails, put the other screw, still in the other pigtail through where you removed the screw and also put the crimp from the input ground on that screw as well. Then in all metal electrical boxes, at least newer ones, there is a pre-tapped hole for it. Screw it into that hole in the box. The U shaped crimps attach to the grounds on the devices.

Now everything is connected to ground the way it should be.

Cordially,
Gerry

PS: Tomorrow I'll sketch it up, 3:00 AM now.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerry

I'm not sure why anyone would use a metal box now days ?
The plastic ones are safe and the wire always as the green lead that goes to the green screws on the outlets or switch...many of the new routers don't have a grounded outlet plug anymore,because it's done with the white lead in the motor frame..
But I will say it's always best to ground all outlets/switchs you may use your router table in the rain outside or if you are up to your butt in water and mud.. 


======



Gerard_sr said:


> Hi Micheal John,
> That's the way it should be done.
> 
> But, there are variations that will make it easier and somewhat neater.
> ...


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Hey BJ
I'm Helping buddy wire his shop with 3/4 thin-wall metal conduit, 20 amp breakers, #12 thwn stranded (good for 25 amps). (lots of metal 4 X 4 boxes)
Made him put in an extra ground rod at the shop CB panel. Ground wire from CB panel to every j-box & fixture. Ground jumpers Gerard shows above are real time savers. 
Anyway lot of shops are wired with metal conduit & boxes, even now-a days. Easy to do additions, meet certain codes, can use individual colored wires & pull various sizes for special needs like welders (special codes for welders) don't break through the vapor-barrier or sheet rock. Grounding is very important (always was & always will be).


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

The "white" wire is *NEVER* attached to a motor frame.

If you want to use your router table in the rain, it's best to have a GFCI outlet powering it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Dave 

That's the norm if the shop is over 1000 square ft..,or if the shop is made of block/brick and the wires can't be but into the walls of the frame..but some will still want the wires in conduit,rated as commercial building ..I think.. it's been a long time but I was a electrician for two years..

That little word " commercial " cost me 100 sq.feet of floor space,but it save tons of money when I built my shop,, I dropped from the power pole to a new meter and 200 amp.service panel,with 4ea. 220volt breakers,plus many other breakers, with GFCI on all the lines....

=======



Bogydave said:


> Hey BJ
> I'm Helping buddy wire his shop with 3/4 thin-wall metal conduit, 20 amp breakers, #12 thwn stranded (good for 25 amps). (lots of metal 4 X 4 boxes)
> Made him put in an extra ground rod at the shop CB panel. Ground wire from CB panel to every j-box & fixture. Ground jumpers Gerard shows above are real time savers.
> Anyway lot of shops are wired with metal conduit & boxes, even now-a days. Easy to do additions, meet certain codes, can use individual colored wires & pull various sizes for special needs like welders (special codes for welders) don't break through the vapor-barrier or sheet rock. Grounding is very important (always was & always will be).


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*drifting off topic, but safety related...*



bobj3 said:


> HI Dave
> 
> That's the norm if the shop is over 1000 square ft..,or if the shop is made of block/brick and the wires can't be but into the walls of the frame..but some will still want the wires in conduit,rated as commercial building ..I think.. it's been a long time but I was a electrician for two years..
> 
> ...


Impressive Bob, more impressive that you have GFCI devices incorporated in your shop!

*For those that don't know about GFCI devices or don't know how they work, in easy to understand terms;*

They have two electronic sensors inside of them. A marvel from this electronic age we're in. One monitors the electricity passing through the black or hot wire, the other monitors the electricity passing through the white or neutral wire. 

The output of these two sensors goes to a differential amplifier, ( a see-saw or balance beam), if either of these report a difference from the other, it unbalances the see-saw in microseconds and trips a spring loaded relay inside the GFCI to disconnect both black and white lines. It happens so fast that you'd never feel a shock! That's what you do when you press the reset button, you reset the spring loaded relay. 

The difference it looks for is so small, 5 to 7 micro amps that will protect a human from the possible 20 micro amps that normally starts heart flutter in a human.

Contributing factors to it sensing a problem are; a faulty two prong drill that one wire had made contact with it's metal case, only as soon as you touched the metal part of the case, the GFCI would trip. In many cases you wouldn't even have to pull the trigger.

A short between white/neutral and green/ground downstream from the GFCI would also trip it.

Using your router table in the rain may seem stupid, but a GFCI will protect a stupid, or should I say mentally challenged person, from getting electrocuted or shocked if he attempted it.

They can be a pain sometimes by tripping, but when they trip, 99.99% of the time there is a potential hazard that made them trip.

*They are a "Life Savor".*

Of course I focused on shop use, the use in the home is mandated by the National Electrical Code for the same reasons; accidents and the mentally challenged that want to use a plug-in electric razor in the shower.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gerry

Here's a snapshot ot two, to show what the CFCI outlook looks like 
just in case someone has not seen one..
==========





Gerard_sr said:


> Impressive Bob, more impressive that you have GFCI devices incorporated in your shop!
> 
> *For those that don't know about GFCI devices or don't know how they work, in easy to understand terms;*
> 
> ...


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## mac (Sep 20, 2004)

For some brands of of electric panels you can get GFI breakers not much higher than one good GFI outlet. If there is a fault, every outlet on the breaker is tripped If your electric panel is close to or in your shop this may be a away of saving a few dollars rather than replace outlets. If it trips you have to go to the panel. mine has only trip once.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Generally speaking the circuit breaker type GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) is more expensive than an outlet.

*Of course, like Mac says, higher amperage types are available as a circuit breaker.*

Don't forget, these normally last a long time, I've only had one go bad and that was because it was mounted on the end of an extension wire used at a church festival. It took a lot of physical beating.

If you install one of the GFCI instead of the first outlet on a circuit, all outlets after it on that circuit are also protected by that one GFCI. You only need one per circuit.


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## William Norman (Oct 13, 2007)

Just get a heavy duty power strip with the switch on it. Mount it in a handy location and plug both items in to that.


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## Ray B (Oct 22, 2007)

Thanks for the drawing. It is just like I have done but really there is a simpler way to do this. just buy a power stirp and mount it. They work fine and you actually have some outlets that are controlled by the switch and a couple that are hot all the time. Some of them also ahve their own circuit breaker.
Just a thought.
Ray


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

You could do that. 
But someday take one of them power strips apart and see how they are constructed. Some are pretty good, some are pretty flimsy and really designed for lighter loads like a computer and it's peripherals. 
Some have crimped connections, some are soldered. 
Some have 16 gauge wire, some have 14 gauge, I've yet to see one with 12 gauge stranded wire which would be the proper size for this application.

Finally power strip cords rarely are long enough. Typically they are 5 or 6 feet long, some few shorter. Their cord typically comes out the end where the switch is, that makes things a bit bothersome as then if that is mounted at the front of the router table, the remaining cord has to reach back behind the table to an outlet. Bets are you'll need an extension cord anyhow. So why not build it and make the cord as long as required? 

Bottom line is what *YOU* want.


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## chuck4mead (Jan 20, 2007)

*Router Switch*

I use a switchable surge suppressor the wiring is already done and all you have to do is mount it and plug it in, it also give you a little security that none of you equipment will be zapped by an electrical surge.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Ya know....
That may not be a bad idea, with the advent of electronic speed controls it may be a new necessity.
Hummmmm...
I'll have to look into that!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chuck

Like you I have all my routers / router tables plugged into one  I will pop one now and then because they are rated at 15amp. but it's no big deal because they have a quick reset button on them and the big 3 1/4HP routers will pop one under full load but other than that they would great...but it also tells me that I need to back off just a little bit with the router 

I was trying to recall how many I have in the shop and came up with 8 total.. 
=



chuck4mead said:


> I use a switchable surge suppressor the wiring is already done and all you have to do is mount it and plug it in, it also give you a little security that none of you equipment will be zapped by an electrical surge.


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## Cristino Santiago (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi guys,
I am the new kid on the block and as soon as it gets warm here in Barstow CA (I have my shop outdoors) I too will be installing a switch which will start both the table router and my vac. That was awesom info and i will benifit from the drawing. Thanks a bunch!

Pastor Cris


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

crquack said:


> I am hoping for great things from this one:
> 
> http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2487
> 
> ...


I have both. The top one is backwards, the plug should be on the bottom and the switch above it but it won't work well that way.

Instead, I purchased the second one on my second go round. It works perfectly. Go for the second, leave the first for the guys who don't read this forum 

Allthunbs


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## Dan Mooney (Feb 2, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> I have both. The top one is backwards, the plug should be on the bottom and the switch above it but it won't work well that way.
> 
> Instead, I purchased the second one on my second go round. It works perfectly. Go for the second, leave the first for the guys who don't read this forum
> 
> Allthunbs


Just a note about these switches from Busy Bee Tools, Busy Bee Tools only ship to Canda


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## kmalmskog (Apr 4, 2008)

Hi Birch, 
I got a double plug accessory from Rockler - it has an outlet for the vacuum and another outlet for whatever tool you are using. You keep the vacuum turned on all the time and it only runs when you turn on the other tool. It runs a few seconds after you are finished to pick up any dust while the tool is powering down.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

*KISS approach to a Power Switch*



Birch said:


> Okay fellas, need your thoughts. Am building a router table. Base etc is done and top is on....no doors or drawers yet. I have seen videos etc. of guys that appear to be using ONE switch to turn on router AND small vacuum at same time. I talked with two guys at local big box places and they say "oh sure, nothing to it. Just take this switch and wire router and vacuum into it. Just cut the plugs off router and vacuum and wire them to this switch."
> Well, I bought one of the switches...but upon reflection I deemed it sorta goofy to cut the plug off my router and my vacuum. Switch went into Reject drawer (with a bunch of other stuff) and I am back to square one.
> This CAN'T be that hard to do. It's not a big deal if I can't do things that way-just thought it would be nice. Just making this base etc. is a MAJOR challenge to somebody like me.
> As you boys know, I'm not a real woodworker.


Well being a farm boy I say keep it simple by using a powerbar to control both. 

Simply plug in your router and the vacuum to the power bar and all you do is hit the power bar button to turn both on. Make sure to mount the power bar on the table tha is readily accesible for you to turn of and on while you are routing.

This will save you from cutting any wires.

Good luck


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

TRN_Diesel said:


> Well being a farm boy I say keep it simple by using a powerbar to control both.
> 
> Simply plug in your router and the vacuum to the power bar and all you do is hit the power bar button to turn both on. Make sure to mount the power bar on the table tha is readily accesible for you to turn of and on while you are routing.
> 
> ...


Hi TRN_Diesel: I tried that in one of my first iterations of some semblance of a router table. It was one of those quick and dirty quick-fixes. I really didn't have much experience with the router. I felt that the emergency shut off was really not there. As long as you keep your wits about you, you're fine but add blood and you can't find the switch fast enough.

Allthunbs


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Cristino Santiago said:


> Hi guys,
> I am the new kid on the block and as soon as it gets warm here in Barstow CA (I have my shop outdoors) I too will be installing a switch which will start both the table router and my vac. That was awesom info and i will benifit from the drawing. Thanks a bunch!
> 
> Pastor Cris


No heat in the shop lol me too. I thought I was the only one braving the cold in minus fifteen degrees Celcius.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

This is all I use.

Turns on tool and vac and I have an extra outlet to boot for a light or whatever. Plus the 3 outlet adapter lights up to boot.

I hate taking my hands off the tool or work so I have these on almost every tool I use now.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Nick:

Where did you get the foot switch? I've been looking around and can't find any. 

Allthunbs


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

MLCS, I will put up a link.

They are called Billy Pedal Foot Switches:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/speed_control.html

They come in two styles, continuous and dead man.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

nickao65 said:


> MLCS, I will put up a link.
> 
> They are called Billy Pedal Foot Switches:
> 
> ...


Thanks Nick:

It's on the list for the next trip across the border.

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Allthunbs

Just a butt in post 

http://www.ptreeusa.com/routerControls.htm


========

======



allthunbs said:


> Hey Nick:
> 
> Where did you get the foot switch? I've been looking around and can't find any.
> 
> Allthunbs


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

What we have to do is find a distributor of this product line.
http://www.linemaster.com/main.shtml
I have a few of different varieties made by them, but they were from "dumpster diving".


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Thanks Nick:
> 
> It's on the list for the next trip across the border.
> 
> Allthunbs


Not sure why you would wantt o cross the border when all you have to do is order it online.

I have used a few sites to purchase things and recently bought a universal fence clamp from http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm

It did cost more to ship the product then what it cost but still is cheaper then making a trip.

I guess if your really close then its worth a day trip but I don't have the luxury of sliping into the USA.

I do like the idea of a foot switch to operate the router and shop vac. I have yet to purchase a dust collection system in my shop due to budgetary restraints. But when i do I am for sure getting setup like this.

Too bad you could not have it setup so when you turn on any tool the pwer surge causes the dust collection system to start up automatically. But maybe the some of the other readers can comment on this if there is a system available out there to do just that?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Oh yeah there are systems like that and others that turn on by moving the blast gates too.


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## Frank Lee (Nov 29, 2008)

Birch said:


> Wo w! Thanks fellas, especially Gerard for going to the trouble of creating a diagram. All the advice is clear and valuable. I will proceed. Still want to get some additional stuff done to the base (cabinet) before I fix up switching. Bought the cheap little vacuum yesterday. Looked at the Fein but had to take TWO of the BIG pills when I saw the price! Yikes. Sure appreciate your guidance folks. I hope some day I can be of assistance to somebody else.


Feel comfortable with Gerads system. I used nearly the same system some time ago. You canbe inovative an locvat the switch and duplex electrical outlet to your desire, no need to cut cords andyou can unplug either or both units for any reason, good advice, ( not mine ) but his. Good luck Frank Lee


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

mac said:


> For some brands of of electric panels you can get GFI breakers not much higher than one good GFI outlet. If there is a fault, every outlet on the breaker is tripped If your electric panel is close to or in your shop this may be a away of saving a few dollars rather than replace outlets. If it trips you have to go to the panel. mine has only trip once.


Your missing the advantage of installing a GFI apposed to a breaker for the following reasons:

1) GFI's are cheaper because one is 17.95 versus $75 for a GFCI breaker.

2) No need to replace all the power plugs just replace the first plug in the circuit and all the remaining plugs downstream will be protected by the GFI provided you load the power in onto the top of the GFI and any other plugs ( load side on the bottom.)

In my area I installed a Jacuzzi tub downstairs in a bathroom renovation. I did not have a GFCI breaker and ran a new circuit to a GFI and then ran power off the load side to supply the switch for the Jacuzzi tub. This meets the code requirement and saves you money by not having to buy a special breaker.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

TRN_Diesel said:


> I did not have a GFCI breaker and ran a new circuit to a GFI...


Don't GFCI and GFI do two different jobs? I'm not sure that one will effectively replace the other.

Allthunbs


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

you can also get the foot switch at Harbor Freight.. I haven't tried the momentary type but I have the other one and it works great.

http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=foot+switch


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Don't GFCI and GFI do two different jobs? I'm not sure that one will effectively replace the other.
> 
> Allthunbs


Seems to bo some confusion here on terminology and function. GFI receptacle and GFCI breaker are the same thing in functionality. 

GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter
GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter

So the breaker protects the entire circuit and your not required to have a GFI along the circuit but if it trips it means you have to run to the panel to reset the entire circuit.

If a GFI Receptacle trips it means just reseting the receptacle aposed to reseting the panel.

Each does the same thing but one will leave you with very little to pay Peter if Paul has just robbed you.

Some people call them either one as far a receptacles go i.e. GFI or GFCI. Refer to Black & Decker , "The Complete Guide to Home Wiring" 2001.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Don't GFCI and GFI do two different jobs? I'm not sure that one will effectively replace the other.
> 
> Allthunbs


Seems to be some confusion here on terminology and function. GFI receptacle and GFCI breaker are the same thing in functionality. 

GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter
GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter

So the breaker protects the entire circuit and your not required to have a GFI along the circuit but if it trips it means you have to run to the panel to reset the entire circuit.

If a GFI Receptacle trips it means just reseting the receptacle apposed to reseting the panel.

Each does the same thing but one will leave you with very little to pay Peter if Paul has just robbed you.

Some people call them either one as far a receptacles go i.e. GFI or GFCI. Refer to Black & Decker , "The Complete Guide to Home Wiring" 2001.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

TRN_Diesel said:


> Seems to be some confusion here on terminology and function. GFI receptacle and GFCI breaker are the same thing in functionality.


GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter - the plug with "test" and "reset" buttons
GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter - a circuit breaker that does the same thing as the GFI but on an entire circuit. Can be replaced with a GFI with downstream dependants?

It's amaizing what you learn when you ask questions!

Thanks TRN_Diesel

Allthunbs


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*IMHO (In My Humble Opinion)*



allthunbs said:


> GFI = Ground Fault Interrupter - the plug with "test" and "reset" buttons
> GFCI = Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter - a circuit breaker that does the same thing as the GFI but on an entire circuit. Can be replaced with a GFI with downstream dependants?
> 
> It's amaizing what you learn when you ask questions!
> ...


I'm not trying to start a war here guys, but in my experience the terms are synonymous due to human shortcomings. 

IMHO: they are *NOT REALLY* synonymous and are often times called the wrong thing by our lazy human nature or a misunderstanding.

Take for example Leviton.com, a popular manufacturer of electrical devices. For example *LINK* you can see it is clearly called a GFCI and yet is an outlet thingie with a reset button.

Now consider the Square-D company, a popular supplier of circuit breakers, to say the least, on this *PDF file*. they clearly call a circuit breaker a GFCI!

Now, while I don't gave one handy for a show and tell, that you have been accustomed to from me as it relates to electrical devices, I hope my explanation will suffice until I drag my butt upstairs and get one. Most of you will have one in your homes, if you are married or have daughters, some of you will use one and many times your barber will use one. It's a "hair dryer" with a *GFI* plug. Yes, that bulky "plug" contains a *GFCI*.

So to explain more, let's take apart the term GFCI.
*Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter*
*Ground*, the earth. 
*Fault*, something amiss. 
*Circuit*, a loop or lap. 
*Interrupter*, something that stops operation.

They all do that! Including the hair dryer one!

I think that earlier on, before GFCI outlet were available, the term was associated with only circuit breakers as in: "*GFI Circuit Breake*r". Later on, due to human nature, it was known as a "*GFI Breaker*". Finally someone came out with the outlets and they had to be called something so they were called "*GFCI*s" because they did not have the function of over current tripping as circuit breakers have, yet were actually interrupting the flow in a circuit if a fault occurred when electricity found a path to ground instead of the normal path through the neutral wire.

Between us, I don't care if you call it a *GFI* or a *GFCI*, it's the same animal unless you specifically state a *GFI plug on your hair dryer*.

What gets me is people who call an outlet or receptacle, (the female gender), a plug. A plug is of the male gender. (I won't go into any jokes about bedroom activities or sexual preferences here.)


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Gerry is absolutely right, from start to finish.
I may not know a lot......but THIS I do know. I have the device's all over my house and my shed. Would NOT be without them.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Howdy Birch!
right about what? 
This part: I won't go into any jokes about bedroom activities or sexual preferences here.
LOL!
Thanks for the vote of confidence though!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Gerard: "This community is the sum of of the knowledge of all.
Only we must communicate that knowledge to each other via this forum.
Participate, Teach and Learn."

It's nice to see others speaking up too. We certainly appreciate the contributions that Harry and Tom make but it is encouraging to see others contributing as well.

So much experience and knowledge and so little time to absorb it all.

Allthunbs


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

Howdy AllThumbs,
It is great people take the time to share their experiences and knowledge, we don't always have to re-invent the wheel!

*By the way; I don't want to say anyone is wrong here. They are right for what they have experienced.* I just presented two well known manufacturers and what they call them for reference.

Many times when I try to dispute a point, I look it up and then learn more! 
LOL!

It *was* my opinion that a GFI referred to a "Plug" like on the hair dryer, but not, because it also interrupts the power flow to a circuit, abet a single circuit, the hair dryer proper, but still a circuit.
Again, I don't care what people call it, we all can surmise what one means by a "GFI outlet" or a "GFCI circuit breaker". (ground fault circuit interrupter circuit breaker, kind of like double talk there!)

*Still a darn good device and I highly recommend them for use.*

They DON'T have to be installed at the beginning of a circuit and they don't have to be installed so that the rest of the circuit is protected by them. It all depends on individual requirements. 

Suppose you have a light duty utility circuit in your shop, one that goes to a clock, a radio, maybe a light or two. Then you want to have an outdoor outlet. The easiest and most practical is to drop a line from the radio outlet to the outdoor GFCI outlet. Sure why not, it's at the end of a T in the line and protects itself and no other outlets on that circuit.

I once mentioned that I do the electrical work for a annual church festival. Before I started doing that the whole mess was held together by wire nuts. The panels had to be opened up every year and wires put to the breakers. What I've been doing is installing the GFCI type outlets to every end of a run. In my situation I have outlets attached to the panel box so that the top half of an outlet is on one circuit breaker and the bottom is on another breaker. Then we make temporary runs of Romex with plugs on one of the line and GFCI outlets on the other end in a weather proof box. Due to space considerations in the box the panel is installed inside of, There would be no room for thirty GFCI outlets in boxes! Also it would prevent my using 12/3 220 volt runs to more distant areas and splitting it up on the end into individual 110 circuits.
It depends on your individual requirements.
Also, it's so hard to get volunteers to work, we don't want to kill off or shock the ones we have to a badly wired soda machine!
LOL!


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Guys:

One thing should be noted (probably not well-noted on some manufacturers' literature):

Do *NOT* wire GFI/GFCIs in *series*. Wiring two or more GFI/GFCIs in series destroys the protection they provide. 

A slight clarification: In Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter:

Ground Fault -- "something amiss" in the form of a "ground fault". A ground fault is power flowing from the live circuit to ground -- an unintended circuit. Without the "something amiss", power should flow from live to the neutral, not ground.

Ground Fault Circuit -- the unintended circuit from live to ground.

The Interrupter interrupts the Ground Fault Circuit.

HTH,
Cassandra
(Electrical Engineer)


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

well hey Cassandra (southern dialect) lol. im glad to see you straightening out these shadetree electrical geniuses,lol. glad to have an engineer on to help us. no disrespect to the shadetrees,lol as i am one of them.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Perhaps you could elloborate in your own words what is meant by "Do NOT wire GFI/GFCIs in series. Wiring two or more GFI/GFCIs in series destroys the protection they provide." and what your rational is.


You have to understand the view point of an engineer lol and that she comes from the centre of the universe.

Cassandra sorry had to give you a shot on the TO thingy.

P.S.

How many Torontonians does it take to screw in a light bulb? 

Answer:

Five, one to screw it in and four to run down to New York to see how they do it!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ok, so what are "ground fault" and "arc fault" breakers? I've also heard of others but I cannot recall their names at the moment. I figure if we're on the topic, why not explore.

Allthunbs


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*A question of semantics on how I worded it.*

A question of semantics on how I worded it. My intention was to clarify it for *NON-electrically minded individuals*.

Arc detection was devised for the "*idiots*" that put furniture in a bedroom atop an electrical cord.
The cord would not short directly, but create an arc akin to the arc lamps of days of old or to the arc that welders have when arc welding. It is using electricity and not being a direct short, will not trip a breaker. An arc detection breaker, which IMHO is something that is forced down out throats because of "idiots", is supposed to babysit individuals of the type that send four people to New York to see how to change a light bulb. The common problem with these arc fault breakers is that they mistakenly detect a brush type motor as an arc and shut off. In other words, you can't use a vacuum cleaner in your bedroom.

I'm not changing my signature, but I'm a retired electronics field service technician that in the latter days before retirement had to nit-pic the designs of "engineers" and make them work.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

TRN_Diesel said:


> Perhaps you could elloborate in your own words what is meant by "Do NOT wire GFI/GFCIs in series. Wiring two or more GFI/GFCIs in series destroys the protection they provide." and what your rational is.


Interesting point. I have several boxes of circuit breakers in a bunch of varieties and non give reasonable instructions. Most assume that they will be used only by licensed electricians.



TRN_Diesel said:


> You have to understand the view point of an engineer lol and that she comes from the centre of the universe.


This one I cannot agree with. My biggest problem is with non-engineers trying to be engineers. Each of us comes to the table with a certain set of skills. An engineer comes to the table with his skills just like everyone else. I wouldn't want an engineer to lay my brick but I wouldn't want my bricklayer calculating the load on my main beam.

But there is a reason there are inventors and artists and scientists. Engineers don't do it all.



TRN_Diesel said:


> Cassandra sorry had to give you a shot on the TO thingy.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> ...


Gee I thought it was the other way 'round. There's been a lot of NewYorkers from Wall Street, lately, coming to Toronto to see how it's done.

Allthunbs


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Gerard_sr said:


> A question of semantics on how I worded it. My intention was to clarify it for *NON-electrically minded individuals*.
> 
> Arc detection was devised for the "*idiots*" that put furniture in a bedroom atop an electrical cord.
> The cord would not short directly, but create an arc akin to the arc lamps of days of old or to the arc that welders have when arc welding. It is using electricity and not being a direct short, will not trip a breaker. An arc detection breaker, which IMHO is something that is forced down out throats because of "idiots", is supposed to babysit individuals of the type that send four people to New York to see how to change a light bulb. The common problem with these arc fault breakers is that they mistakenly detect a brush type motor as an arc and shut off. In other words, you can't use a vacuum cleaner in your bedroom.
> ...


LMAO let the rant begin.

Arc fault breakers are now to the code. Up here in Canada they actually made it a code requirement to use soley blue color 14/2 wire to distinguish the circuits dedicated to bedrooms.

But we really must get back to the topic of routers ladies and gents.


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## Gerard_sr (Dec 7, 2008)

*I agree, topic closed on GFI, GFCI, Arc-Detection for this thread*

Yes they are "code" here as well. 

I agree, topic closed on GFI, GFCI, Arc-Detection, for this thread.

Engineers and Residents of Toronto in another thread.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Nuts! and I was just startin' to learn sumpthin'

Allthunbs


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Guys:

GFI = GFCI for our discussions.

A clarification on series wiring:

If a circuit is protected by a GFI breaker, do not wire any GFI outlet to the circuit.

If part of a circuit is connected to the LOAD terminals on a GFI outlet, do not wire any GFI outlet to that part of the circuit. The LOAD terminals of a GFI outlet are protected by that outlet.

Arc detection relies on the high-frequency electrical noise created by an electric arc. For example, an arcing light switch generates this electrical noise. The arc fault breaker relies on the nature of the electrical noise.

In Canada, arc fault breakers are required for bedroom circuits, as Dan indicated above. 

I prefer the snap-action type switches -- the ones that let you know that the switch has operated. The silent-type switch is prone to arcing.

As for how many Torontonians it takes to screw in a light bulb, we are still waiting for the committee to decide whether we should replace the bulb.

As far as I am concerned Toronto is the centre of a blackhole. 

Cassandra


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## Wood_Smith (Jul 26, 2009)

*..another switch option..*

Here's a router table switch from Kreg:

Kreg PRS3100 Multi-Purpose Router Table Switch: Compare Prices, View Price History and Read Reviews at NexTag


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## p_leyden (Jan 21, 2009)

*Switch for router table*

Obtain a 4" square electrical box, dual outlet cover plate, 1-duplex outlet, 1 -dual switch,(substitute a single switch if you want to turn on both tools with one switch) and a extension/line cord plus a romex clamp. Install the outlet and the dual switch to the cover plate. Cut the outlet end off the extension cord, strip 3-4"of the jacket, strip all wires 1" and install the wires and romex clamp into the 4" box and wire the switches and outlet. This part of the process is easy if you have any electrical experience - if not grab your electrically experienced buddy and ply him with a brew or two to do the actual wiring. Once wired tighten the screws on the romex clamp and mount the completed box to your router table
This procedure is subject to modification if you already have a spare line cord hanging around. 
This is how I wired my jigsaw and my planer)
Pete Leyden


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

*Power strip*

Small shop, one power cord. For the router table got a small power strip, put it where the on/off switch is very easily accessible, plugged the router in, left it plugged in. To use the router I just plug the power strip into the power cord. Unplug when finished with it, then can use the power cord on another tool. The one power cord has it's perks, if a kid ever comes into the shop (very unlikely) there will be no tools plugged in if he/she decides to turn one on. Works for me.


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## mouldy13 (Jan 3, 2010)

*More Money than brains.*



Birch said:


> Wo w! Thanks fellas, especially Gerard for going to the trouble of creating a diagram. All the advice is clear and valuable. I will proceed. Still want to get some additional stuff done to the base (cabinet) before I fix up switching. Bought the cheap little vacuum yesterday. Looked at the Fein but had to take TWO of the BIG pills when I saw the price! Yikes. Sure appreciate your guidance folks. I hope some day I can be of assistance to somebody else.


I don't pay the big bucks for anything. I check at yard sales and flea markets or outlet centers.. Some people give these tools away I have 6 different routers. Porter Cable, Skill (plunge), and 4 Black and Deckers. Almost forgot my Porter Cable laminate trimer. Which I paid $15 for. Still in the box. All work for about any job. If one goes bad I just go find another. I have one on my router table and another on my sign maker. Makes life easier.


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## denverfireman (Feb 8, 2005)

What you want is called an iSwitch, and it will switch on your vacuum when it senses current draw from your router. On my router table I installed a paddle switch to switch on the router. I keep the iswitch on the wall. The router can either plug into the iswitch, with the vacuum below, or if you use a paddle switch then you plug the router into that, then it plugs into the iswitch. I use the iswitch for all my dust collection needs, sanders, routers, etc.

Most major woodworking suppliers carry these items.

Happy woodworking.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Automatic Vacuum Switch - Lee Valley Tools 

USA pricing

Works great.

Cassandra


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## awardsr1 (Sep 24, 2007)

Birch said:


> Okay fellas, need your thoughts. Am building a router table. Base etc is done and top is on....no doors or drawers yet. I have seen videos etc. of guys that appear to be using ONE switch to turn on router AND small vacuum at same time. I talked with two guys at local big box places and they say "oh sure, nothing to it. Just take this switch and wire router and vacuum into it. Just cut the plugs off router and vacuum and wire them to this switch."
> Well, I bought one of the switches...but upon reflection I deemed it sorta goofy to cut the plug off my router and my vacuum. Switch went into Reject drawer (with a bunch of other stuff) and I am back to square one.
> This CAN'T be that hard to do. It's not a big deal if I can't do things that way-just thought it would be nice. Just making this base etc. is a MAJOR challenge to somebody like me.
> As you boys know, I'm not a real woodworker.




Don't worry about it their are many of us who went to the big box stores and did some of those same wrong but good intentioned things.

Many companies such as Rockler sell switch mechanisms for just that purpose for the vac and a power tool check em out and no matter what they say in the store NEVER cut the plugs off your tools it's dangerous and downright un safe


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## kenrg (Jul 20, 2009)

A switrch can be purchased for about $25.00 (CDN) and all that is reqired is to screw it to a convieneint location on your router table. the router and vacuum plug into it. SIMPLE as that. Most tool stores have them, I think mine is a Jessem.
Kenrg (kenny) from Sundre, AB


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*another suggestion*

This is what I use. Only one half of the plug is switched. That way, nothing can be plugged in the "wrong" socket. The dust collection is plugged directly into the wall and only one tool in the shop can be "live" at any time.


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## crs (Jul 19, 2010)

I have used the Sears Router Table Switch for years and am very happy with it. It has two outlets, one for your router and another for an accessory in which you plug the vacuum. The beauty of this Router Table Switch is that you can leave the on/off switch on your vacuum on at all times and the vacuum will automatically start after you turn on the router. The vacuum will continue to run for a few seconds AFTER your router is switched off, to clear any residual dust. The switch is lighted, it has a safety lockout "key" and can be conveniently mounted to the edge of your router table with the included screws. Similar switches are made/sold by MLCS, Rockler, Highland Woodworking, Kreg and others.


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## frarmer (Feb 16, 2010)

I have done that by attaching a 4 in. sq. electrical box to the front of my tool stand. Mount a 20 Amp. duplex outlet on one side and wire a switch to control the outlet on the other side. Attach a power cord to the switch so it can be plugged into a wall outlet. Then just plug your router and vacuum into the outlet in the box and the switch controling the outlet will turn both the vacuum and router on and off at the same time. The whole thing probably would cost $10 to $12 and works great.


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## Monty (Sep 27, 2005)

Hey Levon,
HF sells a heavy duty one foot extention cord for $3.99. One male plug and 3 female outlets. Plug into your router table switch and plug your vacuum and router into the outlets. Watch your amps. This works for me on three tables.
Good luck.
Monty


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## dobrientruckers (Oct 31, 2009)

And now the thread has come full circle


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Monty, Craig, and CRS. Thanks for becoming a member of our community.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

frarmer said:


> I have done that by attaching a 4 in. sq. electrical box to the front of my tool stand. Mount a 20 Amp. duplex outlet on one side and wire a switch to control the outlet on the other side. Attach a power cord to the switch so it can be plugged into a wall outlet. Then just plug your router and vacuum into the outlet in the box and the switch controling the outlet will turn both the vacuum and router on and off at the same time. The whole thing probably would cost $10 to $12 and works great.


It may others if you include a wiring diagram to illustrate your idea.

BTW very good idea and a little wisdom on electrical can carry you a long way for a few dollars.


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## demaX (Apr 16, 2009)

I don't like to cut plugs off cords. You never know when in the future you need a plug again.

I setup my router table with 1 Box mounted to the table. The box contains a connector with "a plug, a switch, and a light". You can buy that connector already made at any hardware store for a couple of bucks. Also you need to a box, a box cover and a cord for power.

You can buy different size boxes, with 1 outlet, or 2 outlets, or 4 outlets. Having a switch & light is a plus.

Then:
All my machinery is connected to a pigtail with a 2nd switch, I do that for safety purposes in case someone throws the switch on my machinery it will not start. 

The total amount should cost under $10 (dollars) not including the cord depending on length required. Make sure your cord length carries the required current 12 gauge is ideal. 10 gauge for long runs. Each machine has the footage per gauge required usually on the front pages of your pamphlet.


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## demaX (Apr 16, 2009)

Since there are electrical questions:

The Black wire is hot (sometimes its a red wire)
The switch is connected to the Black wire. -------------X-----------
Where X is the switch on the same single wire. A break in the wire stops the current flow.

The White wire is Ground. It is a return wire to allow a closed circuit current flow. All white wires can be connected as a bundle or on the same connecting screw. ---------------------W
------------------------------W all tied together.

The Green wire is Ground also. The Green wire attaches to the machine housing.
Or any metal part of the machine. The Green and white ultimately connect to the same BAR in the Electrical box outside your home. They are both the same but have different functions. While the White wire function is to close the circuit to allow current flow, the Green wire does nothing. It waits until tragedy happens, that is the hot black wire comes in contact with the housing, then the Green acts a closed circuit and returns the juice back instead of through your body to ground.

Not that you should do this, but to illustrate. If you connected the white wire to the housing and Green wire where White belongs, the machine will run without problems (assuming both are the same gauge wire).

On a Switch you can connect either side of the black wire to the nuts. The switch simple breaks the wire. On a plug a small slot should be hot while the large slot is White Ground. And the center round connector is Green. If you connect wrong the machine will run as normal simply because your using AC
(Alternative current) there is no plus or minus in AC ; only in DC (Direct Current).

Invest in a multimeter. It's the 1st tool anyone should own.


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## chancekozak (Apr 30, 2010)

Yes it is very easy. Build in an outlet under the table or behind it which will be controlled by the switch. Then you don't have to cut your cords. Those guys were not using there head.


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## CyberDude (Jan 1, 2005)

I'd just like to add my 2 cents worth. Not many have talked about the type of switch control along with all of the great discussions concerning the wiring and safety of the electrical layout and other special control boxes, etc. What I am eluding to is that many have described various paddle type switches, even with removeable keys for safety. I have such a switch on my table saw and have found myself at the end of a cut with the work piece and the cuttoff dangling and waiting for me to turn off the saw. Even though I have turned this saw on and off a gazzilion times through the years, I always seem to be groping for the switch for a longer time than it normally should take to turn the saw off. With this in mind, when I built my router table I elected to purchase a "push button" type switch of the proper amperage. Of course, the wiring layout, etc are important as all have great ideas, however an oversized OFF button is most important in my opinion. Turning the system on is usually not as critical as turning it off - even when it is not an emergency. The extra large OFF push button is a great advantage in that more attention is directed to the work piece on the table and not the critical location of the off switch or the direction that the paddle should be moved in order to turn the system off. I really like the foot switch idea, but one might think twice about that arrangement. If the foot switch tips over during a milling process, things might get kind of hairy trying to manipulate the switch into the upright position so that it could be turned off, not to mention the possibility of tripping it inadvertantly while one is close to the cutter with a work piece or a hand. Just my humble observation.


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## jfrowe1 (Nov 27, 2008)

This is a NO BRAINER.....simply put a receptacle in an electrical box mountes on the base of your table in a location you can easily reach. Use a two gang box. In the other side put a switch. Hook an appropriately sized cord and plug to the box and wire the switch in. This way you can plug in your router and vac (to the receptacle box) and turn the power on and off with the single switch. You can do the same thing with a commercially available safety switch (Rockler or Woodcraft) and plug in your two outlet box to it instead the wall then mount the switch in a place where you can turn your router on and off quickly.


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## Davidakky (Apr 6, 2009)

Have you ever thought of buying a vacuum with an outlet on the power supply...that way when you turn the vac on you also turn the router on...thats what I have set up!!


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## Lolly1 (May 27, 2010)

Hi I am not positive this will work, but it makes sense to me. Take your power line and wire it to a switch, then wire the switch to an plug outlet. It seems to me that if you plug your router and vacuum into the outlet and turn it on that you will have power to any tools you plug in. Is this what you wanted


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

*February 2009 *was when this thread started. The table has probably been wired by now.


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## deebear8240 (Jul 20, 2010)

Birch said:


> Okay fellas, need your thoughts. Am building a router table. Base etc is done and top is on....no doors or drawers yet. I have seen videos etc. of guys that appear to be using ONE switch to turn on router AND small vacuum at same time. I talked with two guys at local big box places and they say "oh sure, nothing to it. Just take this switch and wire router and vacuum into it. Just cut the plugs off router and vacuum and wire them to this switch."
> Well, I bought one of the switches...but upon reflection I deemed it sorta goofy to cut the plug off my router and my vacuum. Switch went into Reject drawer (with a bunch of other stuff) and I am back to square one.
> This CAN'T be that hard to do. It's not a big deal if I can't do things that way-just thought it would be nice. Just making this base etc. is a MAJOR challenge to somebody like me.
> As you boys know, I'm not a real woodworker.


All you needed was a dual gang box into which you plug your router and vacuum. Then another box with a switch mounted, you run the white and black AC power through this secnd box. For single pole don't break the white with the switch just the black. Out of this second box run your power to the first box. Pity you cut off plugsyou didn't need to. This rig can control any two devices simultaneously. Purists would say use a double pole switch and break both white and black.
Don


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## stairguy (Jan 31, 2009)

here is another switch which I've had my eye on for a while already from sears. it's called a Craftsman auto switch. plug a router and a vacuum in and one switch turns them both on. I'd leave a URL, but I can't. I think though that the switch that Ross is talking about is likely a better option imho.
Aart


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## elmer3835 (May 5, 2010)

Ross72 said:


> Hey Birch just another option that doesn't require as much work. I had a switch go on one of my store bought router table and wanted to replace. I went to sears and they sell a "router table switch" w/2 plug ins for about $9. If you go this route you don't need to bother with the junction box, just plug the switch into an outlet and flip it on. Also, the one I bought was on clearance for $5 and had a removeable safety key to prevent accidental start up.
> 
> Ross


You can buy a plug and a switch at a big box store. You will also need an outlet box to mount the switch in,and a cover plate for the box.This can be purchased in your area. elmer3835


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## rupertpika151 (Dec 27, 2011)

Worked great...thanks gerry...you saved my router table and me a lot of headaches


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## BRAVOGOLFTANGO (Oct 11, 2012)

Great tips in this thread, I cheated and threw a $5 power strip from Lowe's on the table I "had" (more on that in another post). It worked fine on my cheapo SKIL router soon to be replaced by...something worthy, not sure yet which. The power-strip worked fine, sure it's under-rated for the amps, etc, but it was a temp setup. Found a couple from Woodpecker and Amazon I liked for a real switch when I build my own table starting this weekend.


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## oldrusty (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi fatz. The simplest way I can think of is to buy and wire in, ( black to brass stud white to silver stud and green to the green stud ) a combination switch/receptacle. It looks like a normal receptacle but the top half is a switch that controls the bottom half which is a receptacle. Then plug in what we call a multi or cube tap or even a power bar that will accept several plugs at the same time. Turn the switch on and all the devices are energized. Oldrusty


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## jfrowe1 (Nov 27, 2008)

Sears sells a device they call an "auto switch". 

Craftsman Auto Switch 
SearsItem# 00924031000 | Model# 24031 

I've had one for years. You plug in the tool in the outlet labeled "Tool" and the vacuum in one of the other two labeled "Accessory". When you turn on the tool it turns on the vac. When you turn off the tool the vac runs for a few seconds to clear the sawdust. Great device and NO wiring or cutting.


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## SDU949W (Oct 2, 2012)

The Bosch vacuum dust sucker provides this facility - you plug the router (or table saw, in my case) into the socket on the vacuum, put the switch in position II, when you switch on the table, the vacuum comes on automatically. If someone can find the wiring diagram, that would be very handy. Myself, I just switch the power and sucker hose depending on which device I'm using. Slow, but steady and sure (just like my woodwork, except for the 'sure' bit). You still need an NRV for each device, of course.


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