# I'm quite sure I'm gonna regret this .........



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

but I'm going to attempt to do a real project and try a progress update ala MT Stringer. He used his Sketch-Up program and gave me a pretty good idea on how it should look and pointers on how to do this. But he refuses to come up and "help"!!

It will be a slow go cause I'm learning as I proceed. And I don't have my own finishing dept like he does.

So ......Mama would like the wet bar replaced and updated with a newer unit, no wet bar (guess that was the rage in 1980 when the house was built, or should I say thrown together), and some bookcase shelves. Space is 104" long (had to be over 8') up to the ceiling with a header in front of some open space.

Here's what I got so far










We'll call this "before"











That was the fun part, sort of. Had to be pretty careful to damage as little as possible. Ended up being 1 x 2 nailed to the wall with a counter top and face frame nailed to the front with doors. Not much to work with so it all came out!

Gonna leave the plumbing in so the next "lucky" owner can use it if he wants.

Off to the lumber store - got 4 sheets of 3/4 - 5 x 5 BB ripped in 1/2 to start. Figured I'd make the bottom in 3 separate boxes instead of a big built in. I can do it in the basement, and connect them in place when almost finished and stained, hopefully leaving less mess in the family room. Looks like maple is the closest match to the BB, so will probably use that for face fronts and doors, unless anybody has a different opinion. I will order the doors from cabinetsnow.com when the face frame is built and I can get real measurements.

This will probably be a little "overbuild", but it's for us so I don't mind the extra time and $$$$. Well, I do, but I don't have a lot of sayso in this.

Will see what I get done this week end.

HJ

Hoping this thread will prod me onward to finish this in a reasonable amount of time.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

John; you've done a cut list and a layout to scale on the 5'x5' plywood format?. If you haven't yet, STOP! and do it now!!
Plywood's just too expensive to not do a scale drawing of the cuts. Waaaay to easy to do a cut out of sequence and end up with lots of scrap.
One way to keep the plywood usage under control is to do a 4" base out of 2"x4" (dry!) and simply face it once it's in place and shimmed perfectly level in all directions. All your vertical hts. will be from its top surfaces.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> John; you've done a cut list and a layout to scale on the 5'x5' plywood format?. If you haven't yet, STOP! and do it now!!
> Plywood's just too expensive to not do a scale drawing of the cuts. Waaaay to easy to do a cut out of sequence and end up with lots of scrap.
> One way to keep the plywood usage under control is to do a 4" base out of 2"x4" (dry!) and simply face it once it's in place and shimmed perfectly level in all directions. All your vertical hts. will be from its top surfaces.


I agree, sounds like you have done it before a few times. :smile::smile:

Herb


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> John; you've done a cut list and a layout to scale on the 5'x5' plywood format?. If you haven't yet, STOP! and do it now!!
> Plywood's just too expensive to not do a scale drawing of the cuts. Waaaay to easy to do a cut out of sequence and end up with lots of scrap.
> One way to keep the plywood usage under control is to do a 4" base out of 2"x4" (dry!) and simply face it once it's in place and shimmed perfectly level in all directions. All your vertical hts. will be from its top surfaces.


Too late - think he said he had the 5' sheets ripped in half. That's waste already - they needed to be ripped at 24" as the depth of the cabinets should be 23.5". Add doors and you're near the 24" depth to accommodate a standard width counter top. Could have used the remaining 12" elsewhere.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> Too late - think he said he had the 5' sheets ripped in half. That's waste already - they needed to be ripped at 24" as the depth of the cabinets should be 23.5". Add doors and you're near the 24" depth to accommodate a standard width counter top. Could have used the remaining 12" elsewhere.


You are right, Vince, I rip mine 3'X5", and 2'X5' and then go from there on 5'X5' sheets. Most of the time I work with 4'X8' sheets tho.

Herb


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Cut lists save a lot of material, time and money.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Guys,

These are much deeper than the average cabinet so the cut doesn't matter that much on these first few pieces. Average width counter top won't fit either. I've been toying with different ideas on how to make one that looks "unique".

I'm making this to fit in the space of the old ones so I don't have to do a lot of refinish work. I'm just working with what's there. Besides, I have to handle these sheets by myself and a half works pretty good. I can always find something to do with any big cut offs. Still got shelves to make too.

One thing, a table saw is a must. Trying to cut all this with a track saw would drive me nuts.

Like I said earlier, this will be overbuilt and probably more expensive than it could have been; but it's for us, so it's not like I gotta make a bid price.

I never claimed to be a cabinetmaker or gave advice on building cabinets, and so far I don't think I want to be one full time. More like a "hobbymaker". Can do a few things ok, but not much very well.

HJ

Gets to play with his new Kreg Pocket Jig.










HJ


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

OK, John; you may proceed! 
You still need the cut list though. I'm sending the wood-police to confirm you've done yours... lol


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Most of the time I work with 4'X8' sheets tho."
-Herb

Deja vu' ...I know we've had this conversation before!
If it won't fit _*in*_ my Astrovan, it ain't comin' home with me.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

That looks like a great place to build a false wall and store guns, ammo and long term food storage. Maybe a 12" deep edge-to-edge bookcase ... hinged???


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Try fitting lumber in a Prius. You sure figure a cut list based on the interior space as well as the ply. Also enough to trim off the hack the dull blade made getting the sheets down to size.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

The Hobbyist said:


> That looks like a great place to build a false wall and store guns, ammo and long term food storage. Maybe a 12" deep edge-to-edge bookcase ... hinged???
> 
> Great idea, BUT I already got a gun safe and Mama wants the space for HER stuff.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> OK, John; you may proceed!
> You still need the cut list though. I'm sending the wood-police to confirm you've done yours... lol


Believe me, I'm figuring this out pretty close. Got the bright idea of making the counter top with all the cut offs and left overs nested together, and then pouring epoxy finish over it.

HJ

Can I just make a cut list (in triplicate of course) and send it to the wood police? My lumber guy said I don't need one - just keep coming in and getting what I need. lol


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Believe me, I'm figuring this out pretty close. Got the bright idea of making the counter top with all the cut offs and left overs nested together, and then pouring epoxy finish over it.
> 
> HJ
> 
> Can I just make a cut list (in triplicate of course) and send it to the wood police? *My lumber guy said I don't need one - just keep coming in and getting what I need.* lol


Your lumber guy will be able to retire soon.>


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Better idea; send the cheque to _me_ and the lumber cut list to _Lumber Guy_.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "Most of the time I work with 4'X8' sheets tho."
> -Herb
> 
> Deja vu' ...I know we've had this conversation before!
> If it won't fit _*in*_ my Astrovan, it ain't comin' home with me.


I hear you Dan, that is why I have them cut down to 2' wide at the lumber yard.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I get my hardwood ply at a wholesale outlet; no cutting of plywood. 4x8 fits in just fine.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have an aging truck for which I built three crossbeams with an I shape so it seats nicely across the opening. Makes for a nice platform that lifts sheet goods an inch and a half above the rim of the truck bed. I can layout cuts while the sheet is on the truck, then use an 18v circular saw to cut to size using a zero clearance jig. Just need a couple of clamps to hold the jig, and the zero clearance jig makes for exact cuts. My jig is about 54 inches long, but I also have an 8 ft aluminum L beam that's two inches by two inches and a bout an eighth inch thick for the occasional longer cut.

Maybe a variation on this so you can cut in the parking lot, then fit pieces in the Prius? Cut good face down to reduce tear out, cut slightly oversized and trim on the table saw. You'd need to have two folding saw horses and a couple of 2x4 beams as long as would fit in the Prius. If I fold the seat down in my Corolla, I can fit 36x60 through the trunk and fold down seat. Don't like to drive my gas hog truck the 120 mile round trip to the good lumber yard, but 3/4x60x60 Baltic Birch so nice to work with that I want buy a bunch at a time and the truck is the only option.

Is there a luggage rack you can get for the top of the Prius? http://www.amazon.com/59806-Removab...095695&sr=8-9&keywords=toyota+prius+roof+rack You could string a couple of 2x2s across these to add more support for sheet goods. Found this source for all kinds of roof racks for Toyota: Search


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb lives on the Wet Coast, Tom.  
July and August, if he's lucky...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Herb lives on the Wet Coast, Tom.
> July and August, if he's lucky...


That's why the good lord gave us tarps!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Jeez...do what I do. Tow your bigger stuff in a small utility trailer. NUTHIN' fits inside a Honda CRV. Two bags of groceries and a lolipop and you're full!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keith; BC Ferries charges by length. Taking my van and trailer on board costs me almost double what the van alone costs.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

guys..

.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Double Duty. That would also hold 2 big deer or 3 smaller ones.

Got 2 of the bottom smaller boxes framed - working on the middle lower one now. Doing it in the evenings while CNC machine is cutting. Got some charity stuff to make. I'm getting soft in my old age .... sorry Stick.

HJ


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Guys,
> 
> These are much deeper than the average cabinet so the cut doesn't matter that much on these first few pieces. Average width counter top won't fit either. I've been toying with different ideas on how to make one that looks "unique".


 @honestjohn
I made a counter top a few years ago that is extra wide and 10ft 3 inches wide by 25 1/2 wide. to top a large living room cabinet setup with book cases and TV cove on top. The top's base is joined together pine, made up of 3/4x3 inch pine that I got from HD. The surface is a flooring material. The cabinet is all white, including the 3/4 x 1 1/2 inch strips that wrap around the entire top and into which the flooring material is set. The flooring surface is fairly dark, so there is a great contrast.

The pine base came pre-glued with finger joints throughout since it was clearly made of short lengths finger jointed together. I bought two pieces of this and first joined them with dowels. which was unsuccessful because it just wasn't flat all the way across.. Since the combined width was near 30 inches, I cut it apart and re joined it with biscuits. Today I would have glued it up with pocket screws, and I would have used cawls top and bottom to keep it perfectly flat so I had less sanding to do. I didn't attach the flooring to the top to allow for expansion and contraction. The book cases on top are attached via pocket screws and that holds the interlocking flooring material down firmly. 

That was my solution to the exact same problem you described. Very happy with the result. My counter is always dry, so if you expect to have liquids on top, you will need to seal it. Since the backing on the flooring is often composite of some sort, it needs to stay dry. 

Last thing, If I had a space like that, I'd put cabinets of some sort above the counter top and pretty high up and would find a way to put strips of LED under counter lighting in. Not hard since you can run wiring and a single switch through walls, dropped down through the ceiling. The power draw will be very light, unless you wire it for a socket as well.

Hope this idea works for you. I am very happy with the result and often get compliments from guests who notice it immediately. Do use cawls, it will save you a lot of sanding.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Tom,

I got a full box and a partial box of maple hardwood flooring from the kitchen. Actually thought of using it for the counter. Also looking at making a counter top out of the cut offs and doing the epoxy pour thing. The top will be all shelves (Mama's orders). And there already is a light in the ceiling behind the header. Will probably get a light with track arms and let it shine down. 

HJ


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*It's The Law*

Stick; what is that thing? A roof top carrier of some sort?
My van _has_ roof racks; that's how I aggravated my rotator cuff injury. Moving a rolled up carpet for a neighbour.
Plywood fits _inside_ my van..._if it's 4' x 8'. _
Besides, Natural Law #1: *If there's something valuable up on top it WILL rain.*
:crying:


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

DesertRatTom said:


> That's why the good lord gave us tarps!


Blue ones are the best. :lol:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Stick; what is that thing? A roof top carrier of some sort?
> My van _has_ roof racks; that's how I aggravated my rotator cuff injury. Moving a rolled up carpet for a neighbour.
> Plywood fits _inside_ my van..._if it's 4' x 8'. _
> Besides, Natural Law #1: *If there's something valuable up on top it WILL rain.*
> :crying:


haven't figured out what help is yet, have you...

tarp to the rescue...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Need vs Want*

Tarp covering valuable plywood + 100Kph on the highway? Not happening.
This line of discussion because I _must_ have 5'x5' BB plywood? :no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Tarp covering valuable plywood + 100Kph on the highway? Not happening.
> This line of discussion because I _must_ have 5'x5' BB plywood? :no:


or 5x10 apple ply...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No.
48" wide by 96" long. Period. I don't care if it's made by Apple...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Haven't hit it real hard but a little here and a little there. I purposely waited so you didn't see just how messy and disorganized my basement really is during the first cut ups.

But now we have:

The 2 end bottom boxes










The center bottom box










And low and behold with fingers crossed........THEY FIT!!!!









Looking at staining what's visible and then starting the face frame so I can order doors.

HJ


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Coming right along,John, looks good. Are you staining in place or taking them out to stain them?

Herb


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Are you staining in place or taking them out to stain them?
> 
> Herb


Thinking of just leaving them there now that they're in place. The shelves and bottoms are just sitting in place so I can take them out and pretty much get to everything else pretty easily. Then I'll screw the bottoms in place and thinking of leaving the shelves loose so they can be taken out if desired.

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

looking real good John...


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

honesttjohn said:


> Thinking of just leaving them there now that they're in place. The shelves and bottoms are just sitting in place so I can take them out and pretty much get to everything else pretty easily. Then I'll screw the bottoms in place and thinking of leaving the shelves loose so they can be taken out if desired.
> 
> HJ


Any thought to sliders for the shelves. Makes stuff in the back easy to reach.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

JFPNCM said:


> Any thought to sliders for the shelves. Makes stuff in the back easy to reach.


No. Mama will probably use the storage for more of her craft stuff and the shelves above are already spoken for. She wants so badly to get rid of the pressboard bookcases we have.

HJ


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

honesttjohn said:


> No. Mama will probably use the storage for more of her craft stuff and the shelves above are already spoken for. She wants so badly to get rid of the pressboard bookcases we have.
> 
> HJ


I sympathize with the requirement for "storage for craft stuff". Having a quilter in the house uses up a lot of square footage. :surprise:


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Your progress is looking really nice. I knew you could do it.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mike,

It's just a start. I'm good at starting things.........it's the finishing part I hate.

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

JFPNCM said:


> I sympathize with the requirement for "storage for craft stuff". Having a quilter in the house uses up a lot of square footage. :surprise:



Mine's a yarn hoarder and cross stitch pattern/thread collector. Never pays full price for anything. Never passes up a steal.

Wait a minute, aren't we like that with tools and wood?

HJ


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Wait a minute, aren't we like that with tools and wood?

Heresy I say to that. :nono:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> Mine's a yarn hoarder and cross stitch pattern/thread collector. Never pays full price for anything. Never passes up a steal.
> 
> Wait a minute, aren't we like that with tools and wood?
> 
> HJ


not us...
no way...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Got the lower boxes and shelves stained and polyed - strewn all over drying. Made these out of the cut offs that were left over from the bottom boxes.




















HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Bottom boxes are connected together, leveled, stained, and 3 good coats of poly. Ready to start the face frame. Got 1 x 6 maple so will start ripping and cutting to length --- and see if my Kreg pocket gizmo will connect them all together so it looks presentable.











HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

With it all connected to make one piece, maybe a stone top, and then bookshelves the rest of the way up, should I I screw the back into the studs or will it be ok the way it is. It's nice and level and sets pretty good.

HJ


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## chuckycheese (May 4, 2016)

The Hobbyist said:


> That looks like a great place to build a false wall and store guns, ammo and long term food storage. Maybe a 12" deep edge-to-edge bookcase ... hinged???


This is an awesome idea. Very nice thinking


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Got the face frame built, stained, 4 coats of poly, and fastened to the base.










Found a nice light for the ceiling behind the divider. Still has to be installed.

Maple doors are ordered

Found a granite guy who has a long enough remnant to cut (103.5 x 25) who's supposed to show up next week and plunk it down for $500 cash. These stone guys are crazy on some of their prices.

Got some more Baltic Birch so now I can start making the top bookshelves, as soon as I figure out the outside measurements

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Got the face frame built, stained, 4 coats of poly, and fastened to the base.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow I'm super impressed John . That has gotta be my fav colour of stain , love that look


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Got the light put in the ceiling behind the top header.










And it works!!!!!










Will start, or at least come up with a half arse plan for the top shelves this week end - - - - if there's time, since it's spring yard work week end.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Got the light put in the ceiling behind the top header.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love when a plan comes together


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Stone people were here with the top. Glad I had them bring it instead of just picking it up. Close to 500 lbs. I even measured right!!!










Made the top shelf boxes in two pieces. Still gonna be a bear to get them in place. Got to poly them yet. Started cutting the shelves last night.










Doors have been shipped and should be here the end of next week sometime. Blum easy close hinges are here waiting.

Got to do my best to have it done by June 3 -- when son and grandson are flying in. Don't need all this stuff out with a 1 year old exploring.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Love the top John . Ya there a pita all right . My friend needed a hand with his counter top and we used 8 guys and four straps to carry it in the house . Crazy heavy stuff , but such a nice outcome


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Looking good. Don't let me hold you back!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Mike,

If I could sub the staining and poly work out to a bona fide "finishing dept" I could have it put together a lot faster.

But I think I've turned the corner and starting to head for home.

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

*Doors are here !!!!!!*

Not quite sure whether to be glad or sad. They got here earlier than I thought. Not quite ready for them yet, but they won't spoil. Gives me a little time to think what to do with them.










HJ


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Beautiful piece of stonework you picked out there John... very nice!!

I think you may have dramatically underestimated your capabilities on this project...
Looks pretty darn good to me!! Doors are gonna highlight the entire build.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I think you may have dramatically underestimated your capabilities on this project...
> Looks pretty darn good to me!! Doors are gonna highlight the entire build.


ditto...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> Mike,
> 
> If I could sub the staining and poly work out to a bona fide "finishing dept" I could have it put together a lot faster.
> 
> ...


Sorry John, she busy setting up the patio stuff. :grin:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Darn

HJ


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Got some help and the shelves are now sitting on the stone top. They sit pretty solid just that way but my question is - do I connect the 2 units together and leave them the way they are or should I drive a couple deck screws thru the back into the back studs just in case? 4 coats of poly on everything - used 3/4 of a gallon so far on this.










Then I got to put some trim on the sides and middle and do something with the doors. Still thinking on those.

HJ


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just looking at the shelves. That's a pretty long span for a shelf. If you put much weight on them, they will surely begin sagging. You might consider putting in some sort of support between the shelves. More to finish, but it will keep it looking nice.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Got the face frame built, stained, 4 coats of poly, and fastened to the base.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


John , how is front stained part (stiles and rails) connected to the cabinet . I can see the horizontal pieces at that top of the cabinet that you could attach from behind with , but not understanding the bottom .


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> Just looking at the shelves. That's a pretty long span for a shelf. If you put much weight on them, they will surely begin sagging. You might consider putting in some sort of support between the shelves. More to finish, but it will keep it looking nice.


Tom,

There's a support that runs along the back of the first 3 shelves that is the same as the sides. The top shelf will only be for kick knacks. If the shelves start to sag, I can always put upright supports from the stone on up if needed. I'm hoping it should be ok with braces on 3 sides, but we'll see.

*****************************************************
QUOTE=TheCableGuy;1199146]John , how is front stained part (stiles and rails) connected to the cabinet . I can see the horizontal pieces at that top of the cabinet that you could attach from behind with , but not understanding the bottom .[/QUOTE]


Rick,

Velcro!!

******************************************************

I made the face frame all one piece using my Kreg Pocket Hole Gizmo. I predrilled the cabinet pieces (before assembly) with the same jig and just lined the face front up and fastened it from behind. Amazingly, it snugged right up.

HJ


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Velcro . Good answer lol

I didn't think there was enough room to hide a pocket hole at the bottom or middle is all.
Duh , never thought of glue


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

*About got it ...........*

Son and Grandson fly in tonite. Picking up now.

Before










After










Closer look at finished carved doors











Stain is the same color throughout. Light was just funny. Mama didn't waste any time loading it up!! Still trying to decide whether to put hardware on the doors or not.

Thank you MT Stringer for not only the ideas and Sketch Up drawings, but more so for the incentive to keep going and finish it. After seeing you complete project after project I just couldn't quit, although I took a bit longer (like weeks) than you would have.

It's not perfect, but Mama likes it, so that's all that counts. She now has her "Library" and more "yarn, material, and thread storage."

Gotta finish cleaning up and head to the airport. Borrowed a car seat. Gotta figure out how to put it in. Looks like it takes a genius to even do that. RainMan, help!

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

oh my!!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow fantastic outcome John


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Turned out really nice. Congratulations.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

That is tremendous! I love the doors, turns this piece into something really spectacular. With books, you will need vertical supports, but it looks a bit like there are DVDs in there, which are very light.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

The doors really ,make it pop. Well done John.

Enjoy the family visit and good luck with the car seat.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Great result, John..

If Mum is happy, everyone happy.


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## VinnieLopez (Jun 3, 2016)

wow...that's all I can say! beautiful work


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Excellent reason for a bit of pride there HJ


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