# John Scott 4X8 CNC router



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

I had mentioned at the end of our last build, we wanted to build another CNC router,,,, We have started. 

As this build goes forward I will periodically give a cost. I will break the cost into,,, material for the build ,,, tools required for the build ,,, an estimate of hours worked ,,, I feel this will allow someone to try the build if desired, and fits the pocket book. Scott and I are estimating $5000.00 but this unit is a spin of Joe's Hybrid, the Mech Mate, and our desired changes, so anything can happen as in our last build.  

We are hoping to get rapids of 1200 - 1500 inches per minute. Our cutting speeds will vary with the material we cut. We will have a full 4X8 cutting capacity.

This devil will be quite heavy as the frame alone is coming in at 375 lbs or approx 170 kg. You will be able to see as we move forward why Scott chose such a heavy frame. I would have been comfortable with a lighter frame, but Scott is the designer. 

I will post as many photos as I can but if anyone has a a particular spot they would like highlighted with a photo let me know. We have yet to begin and I have collected a gallery of 34 photos. I will start posting a few each entry starting with my next post in this thread.

Please feel free to comment with ideas or even tell us were crazy,  This complete build could take upwards to 6 months,,,, maybe less if Scott and I would stop disagreeing,,,,, and do I hate being wrong.  I think he just rejects my reality, Yup that is it. 

There are likely times during this build it would be easier and cheaper to hire someone to do certain aspects of the build for us,,, NOT ,,, we like to learn and we learn by doing  

As I get ready to click "submit a new thread" I have butterflies anticipating the build and excitement I feel. It has begun,   

Have a great day!


----------



## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

John/Scott, good luck with your new project. Please do keep us informed of your progress. I've looked at Patrick Hood-Daniels 4x8 CNC router kit, just something to play with. Total cost of around $3,000.00 for every thing. But he uses chain instead of Acme threaded rod for the drive. Will be waiting for the pics. Again, good luck.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks Dave

I have to put some time in at work today, but when I get home I will post some photos of the frame and a PDF drawing of the frame, which is basically finished except for painting.

We looked at the chain drive and after many discussions with Scott we decided on the rack and pinion system. We have seen this system operate and seems to be our favorite. With this build we do seem to have a definite direction this time. 

Chat again.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

As I mentioned earlier we had the frame just about done and waiting to paint. Trying to keep our costs in line we had to purchase some tools in order to do the build. We are not proficient welding so ask my brother in law Derrick if he would like to do some welding with us. So he became quite instrumental in the welding of the frame. Thanks Deak 

Before welding we needed to cut the metal to size, this was accomplished by buying a cut off saw. The saw was cheap but did do the job. 

We then needed a welder, this was a different story. In parts of the world 220 volt is common, but in North American unless you have it special wired, or a stove, dryer, electric water tank,, etc it is 110 V. My garage has only 110 volt and has given me many headaches when I wanted a shop to replace the car  and my power restrictions. We settled for a welding extension cord as I had about 40 feet to the garage. Problem solved, well not quite, I needed a 40 amp- breaker, my dryer is only 30 so went to the stove and there it was a 40 amp plug at 220 volt. 
Great news, I think 

We needed a welder and we are not the best welders and thought it would be a one time thing so cheap was the way to go,,,, maybe not. We purchased a used welder that had seen the greatest part of it's life in a barn, it belonged to a farmer, the photos tell the story.  I had much cleaning and checking but finally got it to where I felt safe to plug in. I was told it worked and we purchased untested. The photos of before and after explain it all.

We do sometimes do things the hard way, Yup!


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

*Frame*

I feel a little better the belly is full, seemed like a long day, and kinda sitting chilling tonight and gives me a chance to catch up on my posting. 

As I mentioned this morning we do have the frame done and I have some more photos of this section of the build. There is a PDF file of the frame and parts list that Scott did up for cutting the pieces out,,, what a dirty job, we were covered in black dust when we finished and the better half was not too impressed with the mess we left in the sink,,, I thought the sink and hand towels looked Ok, I messed up with the thinking thing. 

We used 2X2X1/8 square tube for the frame, Scott wants it to hold a apartment building,,,, I think  The legs were 4X4X1/8 square tube. The weight of the frame is 375 pounds or approximately 170 kg. It is a massive sucker.

This frame was designed by Scott and he had intentions of it being heavy because of the speeds we are hoping to obtain. This baby is 70 inches by 104 inches and 36 inches high. We will be able to cut a full 4X8 sheet of material.

As I chill tonight Scott and my brother in law are finishing the welds and grinding them down getting ready for a primer. I get the night off  Man somebody has to be boss and I put my hand up real fast yup! that's my story.

I will post some photos of the build and tomorrow I will post on the leveling legs we built for this puppy.

Have a great day or evening depending on the part of the world you live in.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Looooooking good Jerry

You got me going , now I want to fire up my welder and make something but I don't know what but I do love to weld. 
Looks like you will need to weld on some wheels so you can roll it out and use the new toy in the drive way  ..


========



Check twice! said:


> I feel a little better the belly is full, seemed like a long day, and kinda sitting chilling tonight and gives me a chance to catch up on my posting.
> 
> As I mentioned this morning we do have the frame done and I have some more photos of this section of the build. There is a PDF file of the frame and parts list that Scott did up for cutting the pieces out,,, what a dirty job, we were covered in black dust when we finished and the better half was not too impressed with the mess we left in the sink,,, I thought the sink and hand towels looked Ok, I messed up with the thinking thing.
> 
> ...


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi John,

Looking at the photos, that is going to be a big machine.

Plans for a new shed????   


James


----------



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

WOW John you really go big! That is massive!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"new toy"..........Wash your mouth out Bob, this project is definitely not going to be a toy!

John/Scott, I do admire you both for having the confidence and skill to put your money into such a huge project, I was going to wish you luck, but having known you for some time now I know that luck has no part in this project.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

I have another day on site at the work place. I do enjoy the work, it gets the creative juices flowing. 

I called Fastnal yesterday looking for "T" slotted aluminum. Here we go again living in the rear side of Canada limits us to "in stock" items available. I require 2 pieces 10 ft and 2 pieces 6 ft of 80/20 aluminum. Man here we go again, we can get what we need,,,,, minimum order of $$$$$$,,,,, we just want to buy some T slotted aluminum not your store.

I will post some photos after work today of our legs for this puppy.


----------



## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

John, 70" wide. Why so wide? Looks like 55" wood be enough?


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Sorry about my delay getting back to everyone but by golly that work thing is still getting in my way.  I know I was going to slow down,,,, well sometimes slowing down still has responsibilities, and the 10 ladies at our five cafeterias and myself do make a great team. My better half is a supervisor for one of our cafeterias, so I find I will likely be involved until she decides to slow down. That was my fault for marrying a woman a few years younger than me.   I do have a goal and will post this complete build as we go, so be patient with the old guy. 

BJ,, unlike you we are not welders of sort but do enjoy the challenge of trying something new. For the frame we did ask my brother in law Derrick (Deak) for his assistance in this matter. He did get us a good full penetration weld and in his words we could build a house on the frame. I did tell him he must of made a mistake we are building a CNC not a house. 

James,, Yes it is quite large and to my thinking a little over kill, but saying that I felt the other one was big and we found it had it's limits. I guess everything is relevant to your goals. The garage is the building shed  and we will be looking for some space when we get this puppy done. Scott has aspirations of building a small business, and doing cupboard doors, entry doors, office interiors, you could say he plans to design works that are not off the shelf and one of a kind. 

Deb,, As I was telling James,,, oh boy,,, this puppy is enormous, and our shop has turned into a war zone. Right now my love of wood has taken a back seat to the learning of metal fabrication. I am no machinist and at 62 seems quite a challenge but one I am taking up the gauntlet. I shall learn,,,, I shall learn, yup that's the story,, 

Harry,, You are so right this is not a toy or hobby machine, it will have commercial uses,,, we hope.  You know us well Harry, but as for confidence I sometimes wonder if foolishness plays a part in this.  I do thank you for your kind support and I am sure the frustration of the build will be over shadowed by the accomplishments. I can say this will be our largest and technically challenging project to date. Mind you the electric drums we built were a technical challenge as well,, and we did accomplish them, and work to this day. Just keep moving forward yes sir,,, that is the plan. 

Dave,, You are correct on the width and I did question Scott's logic,, you know me always playing the devils advocate.  On this build we will be using the 70 inches for X axis the 104 for Y axis and the way the spindle mounts on gantry we require an extra 8 inches either side to allow a full cut of a 4X8 sheet of material. The last 2X6 build would only allow us to cut 18in X 48 inches. The Z axis was wider than the spindle, and sat at the front of the gantry eliminating several inches of cutting space. These were a pain in Scott's side the last build, and something he wanted changed to allow a full 4X8 cutting surface. I am sure this is as clear as mud but as we move forward this will all play out,,,, I think and hope.  

I do have the photos of the leveling legs and will post today. We see a whole new use for hockey pucks,, what you say,,, hockey pucks, yup!


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

I have the photos of the legs and some of the bright work that is being done on the frame. I think Scott wants to see his reflection before we give it a coat of primer. Then according to Scott a light hand sand then another coat of primer.

He is wanting to finish it with a glossy black with orange contrast,,,, gee whiz it is Halloween, /and he thought my green and yellow was lame. 

The photos are self explanatory. 

BTW,, A metal lathe does not work well on hockey pucks,,,, I wanted to use a forstner bit and dig out the rest  I lost.


----------



## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hey John, on the black and orange paint scheme. Those are Harley Davidson colours. Let's not be knocking those colours. I no nothing about hockey pucks, are they rubber or hard plastic? It looks to me like the way you have them made (the Levelers) when weight is put on them, the bottoms will bow out. Looks like all the weight is on the washer and this is over a cut out area. Maybe a larger diameter washer so the weight is pushing down on the entire top of the puck. Like I said, I don't know hockey.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Good morning Dave

The pucks are very hard rubber and I do agree with you about the pucks dipping until the center bolt on the bottom touches the cement floor. Then the pucks become a decoration and pretty useless for the intended job of a soft foot.

I am waiting for Scott to change the design and we come up with a better idea. I did tell him the plan had flaws, but the pucks were a $1.00 ea and not worth a discussion, another learning lesson. 

Sometime the simplest things require the most thought. With the weight and torque of the machine we need something a little more stable.

Thanks Dave and I still have a bit of a color problem,,,, black/orange,,,, Oh for the green and yellow  

Have a great day and will chat later.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Good morning.

After some chatting with Scott and doing a test on the leg pads, we found two of them did have serious issues and two were a little iffy. The two good ones we will put on the center legs and I will be replacing the other four pucks and make the bottom holes smaller rather than using larger washers.

The total weight of the unit will be about 600 pounds (approx 273 kg) but the weight will be distributed over 6 legs. 

Thanks Dave for bring the issue up it would have been one of those items I likely would have let slide until we found a problem. In this case it was an ounce of prevention to save a pound of frustration down the road.

More hands less work,,,, more eyes less mistakes.   Thanks

have a great day, I will post a financial update this week end.


----------



## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

Check twice! said:


> Good morning.
> 
> After some chatting with Scott and doing a test on the leg pads, we found two of them did have serious issues and two were a little iffy. The two good ones we will put on the center legs and I will be replacing the other four pucks and make the bottom holes smaller rather than using larger washers.
> 
> ...


What about just getting some machine leveling pads that are already made. Graingers has them that's where I bought mine, and they are solid on the bottom, the stud is molded in.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Danny

Those legs are really neat and I could likely get some around here. Scott and I always like the hard way,,,  and take a shot at making things if possible. If we fail the other way we will likely go with store bought. 

We put them in our vise and two did take the pressure test and pass. So I believe our theory is good now. We never really paid that much attention to our design until Dave mentioned it. The lesson we come away with in this case,,,, even the simple tasks require thought. Yup!  

Thanks a lot Danny and who knows we may end up buying the legs.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

You know me I do like to make my own stuff just about all the time,I started making knobs with plastic pop bottle caps (all type of caps) and my own leg bolts with a little fiber glass resin in the cap and a full thread carr.bolt or a tee nut you can make them in a heart beat, here just one of many see below 

Forget about the saw dust in the threads I was showing something else to someone.. 

Just a note they don't need to be built like a tank 
Can't wait to see your new shop to hold your new toy with a crane built in..  to move your new toy around 

========



Check twice! said:


> Hi Danny
> 
> Those legs are really neat and I could likely get some around here. Scott and I always like the hard way,,,  and take a shot at making things if possible. If we fail the other way we will likely go with store bought.
> 
> ...


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Bj

I have always been impressed with your resources and the wise answers you post. I would be hard pressed to find something you have not tried or at least have information on.  You are a wizard of answers, from my perspective. 

All the members of the forum bring something to the party and see something the other may have over looked or has tried a build another member would like to learn. This was always the reason I have kept this forum on my #1 list (I don't have a #2) People like you and all of the forum members, make this forum. We help each other, joke, just plain be kids,, that's it big kids  

We have discussed the point of moving it eventually,,, and we had answers like a,, sky hook, crane, fork lift, motorize it,,,,,  but thought a set of dolly wheels (mighty strong) that could be jacked up for a move (1") and look at a truck with hydraulic tail lift. As you can see once again we have not found the answer for sure.  

Like you, we like to build. Yes sir, a lot of things are not attainable (like build a space ship,,,  Yup!) but so many things are just asking for me to try.

Chat again.


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi John,

For moving "IT" - why not look at one of those lifts used to lift an engine block out of the engine bay.

They should slide under the frame and can lift 1 tonne.

James


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Good morning James

The engine block remover may be the ticket.  The machine will definitely be under the one ton mark, I think the physical size will be the stumbling block, and the weight just a pest. 

I will keep all ideas open until it comes time to move this puppy, then we will see what pops up. We have so much to do before then. 

We are still grinding and buffing the frame getting it ready for the primer coat. My arms and wrists are still stinging from the grinding, then Scott would like it buffed before priming. I thought slowing down meant less work,,, 

Once this part is done we do have some aluminum for the rail system and are still sourcing the 80/20 extruded aluminum and "T" nuts. As we go this will be explained with photos, I always say a photo is worth a thousand words.

Have a great day and will chat again. Getting ready for work.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

I have been quite busy covering vacations and trying to hide from the dreaded heat and humidity. We have been busy all the same working on the frame. My golly what a monster, and I soon found out how big when we started to grind it.

I still can feel the vibration from hours of dirty grinding, my sinks were getting little rust spots after Scott and I washed up. I admire the arm strength these steel workers must require.

We changed the legs and I thank Harry for the pointer, the revision was needed.

I have still not worked up the cost yet but working on it,,,  We have soaked $2000.00 in material and equipment (welder, rods, mask, grinder and wheels, extension for 220, etc) as well as the steel and aluminum we purchased. It gets scary when you keep track.

We are estimating another $2500.00 ( ya right Scott)  It is not moving as fast as we would like but we are moving forward. The next biggest single cost will be electronics. We built the last controller,,,, not this time, no sir, off the shelf.

The spindle that Scott is looking at is water cooled,,, good grief what are we buying.  

Must get ready for bed, hope the photos show the many hours of work, my old body knows.

Have a great day!


----------



## bobbya47 (Aug 4, 2010)

This is looking good. I am interested in how you will keep the top flat. I have plans on the drawing board for a new router with a 48" x 72" cutting area. When I get enough posts in to allow me to post a cad drawing I will post it and maybe get comments from the group.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi bobby

We will level the frame using the leg levelers and as the PDF file in post #5 shows we have to add the 4 corner and two side pieces. we will be adding extruded aluminum and a V grove rail for the V grove bearings we will be using. 

The rail for the X axis rail is approximately 60 inches long, and the Y axis approximately 106 inches long. This set up will be much different than the Joe 2006. 

As long as the base is level and the parts we manufacture flat and correct size we should be good. I did not realize when we built the Joe machine how important level and square is. We had to rethink many of the things we did and in many cases rebuild or reposition many pieces to get it square to Scott's standard.

I found as we built talking with others was a great help on our first build. Please post the drawing and I am sure you will get some feed back.

Have a great day.


----------



## bobbya47 (Aug 4, 2010)

The pdf file is the basic layout without any details. The basic construction will be out of square tubing with 1/8" wall. The top frame will be using 2"x4"x3/16" tubing. I will be using self supported 25mm rails on both x and y axis. The z axis is long is because my plans were to install a lathe on the maching. I am rethinking that because I feel the length of it will allow some unwanted vibration. I am also including pictures of my first build.


----------



## Dorisz11 (Aug 31, 2010)

Check twice! said:


> I feel a little better the belly is full, seemed like a long day, and kinda sitting chilling tonight and gives me a chance to catch up on my posting.
> 
> As I mentioned this morning we do have the frame done and I have some more photos of this section of the build. There is a PDF file of the frame and parts list that Scott did up for cutting the pieces out,,, what a dirty job, we were covered in black dust when we finished and the better half was not too impressed with the mess we left in the sink,,, I thought the sink and hand towels looked Ok, I messed up with the thinking thing.
> 
> ...


Heavy duty!


----------



## deeb (Sep 12, 2010)

For starters, that looks like a very impressive machine you all are building. More to the point of this post though, for someone who has only just recently been able to realize the joy of creating something that is more than the sum of its parts, this build is very inspiring. Our ability and experience are a world apart but it is exciting to see that people much more experienced then I share a similar level of excitement, passion and “butterflies” as you put it on your first post when they set out on a challenge that is new for them. I’d love to see more updates and keep up the good work.


----------



## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Good day, I guess its about time to give a brief update on our build. This summer has been busy and not a large amount accomplished on our machine. I am still working full time,,, I just hate to give it up, I enjoy my job.

I have a couple of photos to show the progress! I now have a better understanding of Scott's design. He has managed to complete the schematic break down using Solid Works,,,, I like pictures.  The labor intensive and physical part of the job is now done. Well I hope anyway! 

These photos will explain much better than me what we have done and how we chose to do it. This build is going to take a little longer than I hoped but we really want it to work right,,,,, be accurate and eye appealing is the goal. 

The next step is getting the aluminum side pieces for the gantrys cut out. We do not have the ability to cut these large pieces accurate. As they get cut out we have to order our extruded aluminum, V rails, V bearings, not counting the zillion other things. 

This has cost to date approximate $1600.00 but this includes the tools required that we did not have,,,,,, as it stands. Material about $1100.00 that is steel, aluminum for beds, welding rods,grinding discs, paint, leg bolts and nuts, cut off blades and what ever else I forgot. The hours of cutting, welding and grinding of the steel got a little disheartening. Scott was keeping track of man hours I will ask him,,, I think a million or two, well it felt like it.  

We are hoping to finish the black this afternoon, and this will end part #1 of our saga... 

I hope you have a great day.


----------

