# Not so Glossy



## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

My wife wants a dark, sort of antique walnut color stain for a cradle that I'm building for the newest addition to the family. I want to also protect it with a poly or acrylic or some other good sealant/protectant. The thing is, my wife doesn't like the shiny, reflective nature of a clear coat. I stained a scrap piece (poplar, yes it's cheap) and used a couple coats of satin poly by minwax over it. The satin wasn't as bad as gloss, but she still thinks it's too "shiny." So my question is: What can I do to protect and/or seal my stained project without giving it a sheen? Thanks in advanced guys.

Josh the Marine


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Josh, the quick and easy answer is Watco Danish oil. This is available in clear or tinted versions to compliment the wood. When used as directed it will leave the wood darker, give better definition of the grain with a light sheen. The finish is not as durable as a polyurethane or acrylic but should work fine on a cradle. The finish will need at least a month to be completely dry before use.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Josh, one of my favorite finishes is to use wipe on poly. I usually put on three coats or more and lightly sand each coat after about 12 hours with 220 or finer. Then after the final coat has dried I go over it with 0000 steel wool and Johnson's Paste wax. This will leave a velvety looking texture and even feels like velvet. I think your wife will love it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Most of my past projects have had four coats of quality Danish oil with a day between coats, no sanding between coats. the longer the better after the final coat then finish with 0000 wire wool and Johnsons wax polish. It's important to remember that the more you rub the higher will be the shine so stop when happy. The finish has no artificial look about it, just a natural looking patina. The reason I only occasionally use it now is that I'm becoming impatient and want fast finishes, that is except for important projects. I forgot to mention that I apply the first coat with a brush to ensure it gets into every nook and cranny, further coats with a lint free rag.


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

If you check the ingredients of Watco Danish Oil you will find that its 75% solvent,the other 25% is made up of boiled linseed oil,resin, a secret resin,and asphatum and these are at least 3%each. If you dig some more you will learn that 60-70 % of the remaining 25% is boiled linseed oil. This leaves 10-12 1/2% divided between the resins and asphaltum. I find this a great deal of money for solvents,roofing tar,linseed oil and very little varnish. If you want a walnut color use about one tablespoon of roofing tar and 2-3 ounces of mineral spirits to start. I personally don't think danish oil (advertising name) is much more than linseed oil,but if you want to use it make your own. Save some money and tweak it to suit the project. Let the defenses of Danish Oil begin.

Jerry


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jerry is against any ready to use product, be it Watco Danish Oil, spar varnish or Polyurethane. Not everyone keeps roofing tar, linseed oil and solvents on hand, or has the time to experiment with different mixtures to find the right combination. I found it much easier to pay $8.00 for a quart of ready to use finish that gives consistant results. Time is money.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi all,

This is probably a dumb question but I gotta ask anyways. With all of those "chemicals" listed.... is this truly safe for a baby???


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Ken,

You've made a really good point. I don't have any answers, but I have seen Walnut Oil advertised/recommended for salad bowls and cutting boards.

TTG


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## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

TONS of good information gents, thank you. I am definitely concerned about fumes and the chemicals used in various products. As far as fumes, I'll certainly allow more than adequate curing time for any finish I use. And once he is old enough to pull up and chew/suck on the sides, he is well beyond cradle age anyway. Jennifer is making a beautiful hand quilted pad and possibly side bumper pads for it, so he shouldn't be in physical contact with the wood. Jerry, despite the critics, I like your thinking. I probably will buy something "ready-mixed" this time around, but you've got me interested for sure. Mike, George, Harry, Ken awesome advice as always guys! TTG, I do look for products that claim to be food safe, myself.

Josh the Marine


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Hamlin said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This is probably a dumb question but I gotta ask anyways. With all of those "chemicals" listed.... is this truly safe for a baby???


Ken, once the finish has completely cured (dried), there is no longer any chemicals remaining. They have all evaporated.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

There is no way I should be mistaken for an expert on this subject, but based on information available online from Lowes, the only stains listed as suitable for children's furniture and toys are water based stains, and the only topcoats listed as suitable for children's furniture and toys, and tabletops and eating surfaces are water-based polyurethanes.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The following passage taken from Rustin's web page is not intended to contradict what jerry has said, I have the greatest respect for his specialised knowledge of finishes, rather it is to illustrate that there appears to be big differences between brand's, note particularly the last sentence.


Rustin’s DANISH OIL is a special formulation based on "Chinese Wood Oil" also known as "Tung Oil" This natural oil is extracted from nuts, similar in size to a brazil nut which grow on certain species of trees found mainly in China and some areas of South America. 

This natural oil is processed and blended with other vegetable oils then some synthetic resins to improve the hardness. The special formulation developed by Rustin’s Ltd ensures Rustin’s DANISH OIL is different to other oils.

The special ingredients allow Rustin’s Danish Oil to penetrate deep into all types of timbers, drying to a hard durable and water resistant seal. The ideal oil to bring out the beauty of all timbers and give a natural low lustre finish to all types of furniture, woodwork, woodturnings & woodcarvings. 

In fact just about any wooden surface will benefit from just a few coats of Rustin’s Danish Oil.





RUSTIN’S DANISH OIL is very easy to apply...

* Simply wipe on with a rag or brush on.
* Just 3 to 4 coats on bare timber will produce an excellent natural look finish.
* Is hard, durable & water resistant.
* Dries quickly in 4-6 hours. (dependant on ambient temperature and humidity)
* Excellent quick and easy finish for woodturnings and carvings.
* Is ideal for furniture, doors, wall panelling, window frames, & all interior woodwork.
* Can be used outdoors as long as not exposed to harsh weather, such as direct sunlight and constant wet conditions. (For this use Rustin’s Outdoor Furniture Oil)
* Conforms to safety regulations BS5665 for use on childrens toys.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Josh,

If you're interested in mixing your own finishes, check-out the following website;

http://www.twispenvironmental.com/index.php?option=com_tuulpage&task=view&id=12&Itemid=1

While, I'm not a purest like Jerry, mixing your own finishes adds an additional dimension to this hobby. It can be fun.

TTG


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This is where TTG and I differ in our opinions, what could possibly be worse than spending lots of money on materials plus countless hours making a project, only to ruin it with an unsatisfactory finish. Testing on a small piece of scrap only gives an INDICATION.


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

I am not against ready made products, and have recommended some (Waterlox Original Varnish, Behlen"s bar top varnish, P&L #38 varnish et.al). I am very strongly against what I consider misleading advertising.

Jerry


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

harrysin said:


> The following passage taken from Rustin's web page is not intended to contradict what jerry has said, I have the greatest respect for his specialised knowledge of finishes, rather it is to illustrate that there appears to be big differences between brand's, note particularly the last sentence.
> 
> 
> Rustin’s DANISH OIL is a special formulation based on "Chinese Wood Oil" also known as "Tung Oil" This natural oil is extracted from nuts, similar in size to a brazil nut which grow on certain species of trees found mainly in China and some areas of South America.
> ...


This product doesn't appear to compare to Watco's oil at all. Which is a good thing. Their data sheets don't supply much info but, they do state that the product contains 70-90 % naptha.

Jerry


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

mftha said:


> There is no way I should be mistaken for an expert on this subject, but based on information available online from Lowes, the only stains listed as suitable for children's furniture and toys are water based stains, and the only topcoats listed as suitable for children's furniture and toys, and tabletops and eating surfaces are water-based polyurethanes.


Every finish made in the USA is safe for contact when completely cured,not when the solvent dries. For many film finishes this can take 4-6weeks. If there is any concern use shellac. It is the safest finish I am aware of.

Jerry


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Shellac must be really safe. I read some where (don't remember where) that it is actually contained in some food products. Who new????


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

curiousgeorge said:


> Shellac must be really safe. I read some where (don't remember where) that it is actually contained in some food products. Who new????


Shellac is or was used on M&M's and is still used as a time release coating on some medications.

Regards

Jerry


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

I use BLO on my carvings to either pop the acrylic colors after painting ( it mellows out the colors and makes them more uniform) and also as a mixing and blending agent for oil paints. I have read that many carvers use Watco Danish Oil to do the same job. I also watched a finish demonstration by the guys at the Woodsmith Shop and he said I am no chemist, but my personal thought is that the walnut oil, BLO and danish oil is all the same thing... just marketing noise. 

I will say that whatever name you put on it, it's about the most flammable stuff in the shop and causes more fires than you can count so be sure to properly dispose of the oily rags. 

Corey


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

challagan said:


> I use BLO on my carvings to either pop the acrylic colors after painting ( it mellows out the colors and makes them more uniform) and also as a mixing and blending agent for oil paints. I have read that many carvers use Watco Danish Oil to do the same job. I also watched a finish demonstration by the guys at the Woodsmith Shop and he said I am no chemist, but my personal thought is that the walnut oil, BLO and danish oil is all the same thing... just marketing noise.
> 
> I will say that whatever name you put on it, it's about the most flammable stuff in the shop and causes more fires than you can count so be sure to properly dispose of the oily rags.
> 
> Corey


While they may not be exactly the same it is always a good idea to be a little leery of most advertising. The more they advertise the more leery I become.

Jerry


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

jerrymayfield said:


> Every finish made in the USA is safe for contact when completely cured,not when the solvent dries. For many film finishes this can take 4-6weeks. If there is any concern use shellac. It is the safest finish I am aware of.
> 
> Jerry


Thanks for the information, Jerry. 
I prefer water based stains and top coats because the solvents are toxic, and I do not have a place to store pieces as they cure.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

harrysin said:


> This is where TTG and I differ in our opinions, what could possibly be worse than spending lots of money on materials plus countless hours making a project, only to ruin it with an unsatisfactory finish. Testing on a small piece of scrap only gives an INDICATION.


Harry,

Aren't you the same guy that suggested Johnson paste wax, 0000 steel wool and a pair of knee pads for the wife as the best method for finishing hardwood floors? If you're willing to incur the risk (i.e., death) of that finishing technique, what can be so bad if the grain didn't pop just right on your latest project? 

But, seriously, Jerry does have a point in his crusade against wipe-on Poly, WATCO, Danish Oil etc., the first coat of the wipe-on poly/WATCO/DO seals the grain and provides a thin poly layer. Subsequent treatments, only thicken the poly. The tung or linseed oil is being wasted in the subsequent treatments. Therefore, you'll get a similar finish by using one coat of the wipe-on poly/WATCO/Danish Oil and a few coats of poly thinned with mineral spirits.

Is it worth the hassle? Perhaps, not. Sometimes, you want to get the job done, others you want to explore. Mixing your own finishes is for those times that you want to be creative.

TTG


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

TTG, I call it as I find it, all my serious pieces are finished as I described incl. the clock shown. It's feel is like glass but with a natural low sheen look. Future heirlooms that I made eight years ago when I was first introduced to Danish oil still still look perfect, rather like antique furniture. Prior to using Danish oil I used poly, again finished with wire wool, and whilst the finish is still excellent after at least twenty years, they don't have that natural patina. I'm a great believer in the saying "when you're on to a good thing, stick to it" ! I also believe in "to each his own" !


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

harrysin said:


> TTG, I call it as I find it, all my serious pieces are finished as I described incl. the clock shown. It's feel is like glass but with a natural low sheen look. Future heirlooms that I made eight years ago when I was first introduced to Danish oil still still look perfect, rather like antique furniture. Prior to using Danish oil I used poly, again finished with wire wool, and whilst the finish is still excellent after at least twenty years, they don't have that natural patina. I'm a great believer in the saying "when you're on to a good thing, stick to it" ! I also believe in "to each his own" !



Harry,

"I call it as I find it" That goes for the hardwood floor finishing technique also?

BTW - Impressive work on the clock. You have well demonstrated your point.

TTG


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## rvbuild (Nov 19, 2008)

Josh, after the poly dries, wet sand it with #600 wet/dry paper. Follow by rubbing with 
FF Pumice. This should kill the shine and leave it silky smooth.

Ron V


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## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

That's good advice Ron, thanks. I went with the Danish oil for this one, but I've got something coming up that I think I'll try your technique on.

Josh the Marine


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