# Making own base - confused on all guide bushings options.



## Gweedz (Jul 6, 2010)

I'm making my own base so I can size it to fit PC or OP guides. I had my eyes on these two sets...

1-3/4" Brass Template Guides - Lee Valley Tools

1-3/16" Brass Template Guides - Lee Valley Tools

I like the 1-3/4 set because the largest bushing is bigger, but the other set has more sizes (which I don't think I'll use). Which would you chose if you're starting from scratch and have no templates, bases, guides, etc. I'm using a 1/4" router and eventually hope to go to 1/2"

I read that 1-3/16" is the "standard" for most routers, but I don't know if there's any advantage to going with the standard.

Interesting note - you'd think those 2 sets are identical except for the mounting size, but I notices the ID is different between 2 comparable OD guides.

Anyway, one thing that concerns me of the 1-3/16" set above is it says the minimum pattern thickness for the top 4 sizes is 9/16". I was hoping of using 1/2" for my templates. Can I just grind down the height to 7/16" or so?

Also, would I need a centering cone? Amazon.com: Bosch RA1150 Centering Cone: Home Improvement 
My base has 3 round mounting holes so I don't see how it can come out of alignment.

In case it matters - I foresee most of my router work will be for small pieces such as toys or jewelry boxes. No 6' oak hutch anywhere on the horizon. :blink:

Thanks!
Guido


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Guido:



Gweedz said:


> I'm making my own base so I can size it to fit PC or OP guides. I had my eyes on these two sets...
> 
> 1-3/4" Brass Template Guides - Lee Valley Tools
> 
> ...


Ok, here's the rub - LeeValley tools carries a basic set of brass for 1 1/2" (1 3/4" shoulder). OakPark has _all_ of the rest of the sizes, including a lot that PC cannot duplicate.

I have a basic set of 1 x 7/16 guide with an inlay collar and a ring nut. Then, I equipped myself with every 1/4" thereafter -- i.e. 1/2", 3/4", 1",1 1/4" and 1 1/2". That gives me a lot of versatility. I also have a 3/4" router plate insert. This covers most of what I need. When I run into a situation where I need an odd size (which hasn't happened yet) I figure I'm a few days mail order from LeeValley and an extra day from OakPark.



> Which would you chose if you're starting from scratch and have no templates, bases, guides, etc. I'm using a 1/4" router and eventually hope to go to 1/2"


As above.



> I read that 1-3/16" is the "standard" for most routers, but I don't know if there's any advantage to going with the standard.


Nope, none unless you're using the "standard" Porter-Cable routers but they're not very good for skis or pivot frames or ...



> Interesting note - you'd think those 2 sets are identical except for the mounting size, but I notices the ID is different between 2 comparable OD guides.
> 
> Anyway, one thing that concerns me of the 1-3/16" set above is it says the minimum pattern thickness for the top 4 sizes is 9/16". I was hoping of using 1/2" for my templates. Can I just grind down the height to 7/16" or so?


What's worse, I'm looking at the LeeValley picture for the 1 3/16" guides and it looks like the collars are different lengths. I hate defacing tools. It took me months to screw up the courage to modify my M12V for large bits and table mount. If you gotta, you gotta.



> Also, would I need a centering cone? Amazon.com: Bosch RA1150 Centering Cone: Home Improvement
> My base has 3 round mounting holes so I don't see how it can come out of alignment.


Ok, if you're using OakPark's 1 3/4" shoulder size, OakPark sells a "centering disk" that works in conjunction with one of their safety guide pins (which is an absolute must for bearing on table work). You're on your own for the 1 3/16" one.



> In case it matters - I foresee most of my router work will be for small pieces such as toys or jewelry boxes. No 6' oak hutch anywhere on the horizon. :blink:


I note the :blink: and forewarn you. When SWMBO sees nice stuff coming out of the workshop, your goose is cooked. You are conscripted, volunteered and generally hog tied for life. For the 6' hutch category I use a 4'x8' torsion table.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Guido, perhaps I can help a bit on this. First off the thickness of your templates only needs to be 1/4". You can use 1/2" but you are just throwing extra money away. I use 1/4" tempered hardboard which is often sold under the brand name Masonite. The guys from the Router Workshop use 1/4" baltic birch plywood which is much better if you want to use brads to tack things in place. I suggest you try both to see which you prefer. 

The more sizes of template guides you have, the more options you get. For this reason alone I would go with the larger Oak Park style bushings. Yes, you can buy them from Lee Valley for less. They also offer a set of hole reducers which is a good idea. You dont want too much opening around your bit, just enough to evacuate the chips. What you have heard about standard bushings means PC style. This is considered standard only because it has been in production longer.

Many people complain that Oak Park bushings are too expensive. Keep in mind that they sponsor this forum and ask nothing in return, they do it to promote woodworking. Lee Valley does not support this forum, they just copied the Oak Park design. Everyone wants the most for their money but what value can you place on the unlimited information you get from the forums? Just something to think about.

A centering kit is available from Oak Park. It is easy to use, and I even had a job where I used the centering guide as a hole reducer.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Gweedz said:


> I'm making my own base so I can size it to fit PC or OP guides. I had my eyes on these two sets...
> 
> 1-3/4" Brass Template Guides - Lee Valley Tools
> 
> ...


Hi Guido - The only drawback I see to the large guides is that there are only two places they can be obtained, Lee Valley and Oak Park. The small guides are available at virtually any wood working store, big box store, a lot of hardware stores and even Sears and Harbor Freight. 
As far as the short barrel guides, here is one source for the PC size
Best Sellers - 10-Piece Brass Template Guide Kit
These have a barrel length of .201 which will allow for 1/4" template stock. Long barrels have their uses also though. I needed to inlay a Ford hood emblem a couple of months ago and, because of its overall shape I used a long barrel to trace it onto the template and a short barrel to make the relief.

I think I read in a post somewhere that the Oak Park guides are all short barrel. Wouldn't swear to that though.

I guess I am saying that it needn't be an "either/or" decision. Simply make two base plates. The barrel diameter sizes overlap up to 1" so you can actually use both by swapping base plates. Actually, I think Bj modified a Milescraft insert so he can just swap inserts to get the whole range available.

Hope I haven't confused the issue to much:sad:


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jschaben said:


> I guess I am saying that it needn't be an "either/or" decision. Simply make two base plates. The barrel diameter sizes overlap up to 1" so you can actually use both by swapping base plates. Actually, I think Bj modified a Milescraft insert so he can just swap inserts to get the whole range available.


Hi John & Guido:

I become hesitant about using too many mechanical connections around router bits. For example, I have the baseplate attached to the router, and the brass template guide with the retaining ring (nut) attached to the baseplate. There's two mechanical connections. Add the Milescraft and you add a third. That's three points of mechanical attachment that can fail. Two is bad enough, three is really bad.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guido

You can't have to many template guides, I would suggest you buy two sets ,cut one of the sets down to 1/4" long stems, if you can swing it get one of the sets without stems they are used to choke the hole down to make it safer to use the router with small parts.

The bigger guides are great I would suggest you get them all from Lee V. they are all 1/4" long stems. from OP or Lee,,,but do the same get the ones without stems also.

I Also suggest you use 1/2" thick MDF for most of your templates but not all of them sometimes 1/4" MDF works best, this is why I suggest 1/2" thick stock for most of template, when you use the female template and the 1/4" stem guides the router dust can get in the corner bottom and the 1/4" long guides will let you make a nice clean copy..

Buy all your PC type brass guides from Harbor all others from Lee V. note the set from Harbor has a 1" one in the set not the norm all the time..and the price is right.

9 Piece Router Base Brass Inserts
9 Piece Router Template Guide Set

Lee Valley Tools - Item Search

note*** if you buy the just the off set collar from Lee from the inlay set you can use your guides with out the need to buy a inlay set..that tip will save you about 15.oo bucks..  plus you can use a 1/4" router bit and not the norm of 1/8" router bit.

Plus pickup the item below

Router Bushing Spring Washer
Router Accessories

Bushing Spring/Lock Washers Set
MLCS Router Accessories Page 2 

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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Hi John & Guido:
> 
> I become hesitant about using too many mechanical connections around router bits. For example, I have the baseplate attached to the router, and the brass template guide with the retaining ring (nut) attached to the baseplate. There's two mechanical connections. Add the Milescraft and you add a third. That's three points of mechanical attachment that can fail. Two is bad enough, three is really bad.


Guides should be integral with the baseplate?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jschaben said:


> Guides should be integral with the baseplate?


Oops, not what I meant. I meant that the baseplate is one connection, the guide to the baseplate is the next. If you use an adapter to "fit" a different sized guide is a third. Every mechanical connection is a point of error or failure. 

However, if you have the capability to fabricate an integrated guide/baseplate combination, and the ability to mount it accurately, that is your ideal. 1 less connection, 1 less point of failure.


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## Gweedz (Jul 6, 2010)

Is it only my head that spins after reading all this?

I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere... I'll re-read it a few more times to find it.

So far I learned...
- Can't have too many guides.
- Good to have the insets also.
- 1/4" template is good enough for most cases (assuming the guides are compatible)
- PC or 1-3/4" both have their pros and cons, but not a huge deal if I go with either. I just need a new base if I change my mind later. I like the pricing and availability options of PC guides, but I'm leaning more towards 1-3/4" because of versatility, BUT since LV selection is limited, it'll come down to cost from OP (I'm in Canada and Lee Valley is within walking distance from my work).

I'll let you all know what I decide based on what I find from OP.

Thanks!
Guido


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guido

Just one more ,if you have the 1 3/4" base you can get a adapter so you can use the 1 3/16" PC Type guides in the same base plate..

I think BigJim posted a link to it, I will let him dig it up and repost for you.

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Gweedz said:


> Is it only my head that spins after reading all this?
> 
> I'm sure the answer is in here somewhere... I'll re-read it a few more times to find it.
> 
> ...


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## Gweedz (Jul 6, 2010)

I have decided...
I went to the Oak Park website and was surprised shipping is reasonable. I didn't know they are in Canada so no customs BS to worry about. Then I saw the prices. I thought I was reading it wrong but each guide is 3-4 times more than from Lee Valley (who themselves are not known for rock bottom prices).
Call me cheap but I can't justify this at this point in my hobby. If I order one guide (no nut, just the guide), the total price including shipping comes out to $3 more than what I paid for my router and table.

I originally thought 1-3/4" guides were available almost anywhere... but I learned here that they're only available from from either LV and OP. In that case I'm going with the PC style based on price and availability. I know I will lose flexibility, but when the time comes that I NEED a size that doesn't come in PC style, I'll bite the bullet and buy it and make a base. 

I will still go through this thread a few times because there is a wealth of info here.

Thanks to all that helped!

Guido


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guido

A note on base plates, if you buy the HF router mounting plate and cut it down to 8" square you will be glad you did, a sq.base plate it always better than a round one, you can put two bearing on the corners of the base plate and use it to put in mortice slots very easy and they will always be dead on center every time. it's a very easy geometry thing.
Plus you can drill out the center snap in ring for the 1 3/4" guides very easy with the drill press..

The real down fall with the PC plate install on the router it chokes the hole down to 1 3/16 hole and many router bits you will want to use will not fit that small hole, that's why making your own plate with the HF plate is the best way to go ,all router bits can be used in your router with just a quick snap out of the rings..  you may not see right now but in time you will see what I mean ,the 1st. time you want to use a round over bit and it will not fit that small hole in the plate..

here's the plate to use for that job..
Router Table Plate

Note *** I have one or two made up if you want to see what it looks like just ask and I will post a snapshot of it..

===


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> I think BigJim posted a link to it, I will let him dig it up and repost for you.
> ==========


Sure... Here's PDF's of a couple of their web pages and the link Router Accessories - Workshop Supply :

For my southeastern neighbors (Canadians), this is primarily a Canadian supplier. If you go to their home page it asks you whether you want the Canadian or US site.

I'd like to think they ship domestically too.. :jester:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

Here's a shot or two of the HF plated reworked into a base plate for the router, it can take on the PC type guides and the OP/Lee type guides plus it can take on any bit you want to use in the router. from 1/8" to 3 1/2" ,,,in the snapshot below you will see the temp. bearings in place and can be adjusted up or down for the wood you want to use..

Note,,,, you don't need to made the jig below a wood working bench vise will work fine for the job..and your slots will always be dead on center of any stock or you can off set it also very easy with the plate below..

Plus the snap in inserts make very easy to switch out the guides and to get them tight in place, many routers don't give you the room to get to the guide nut to lock it down right or to get them off.
I got the hint from the Milescraft base plate, why not do the same thing for the standard router base plate without the need for a turn lock insert ,just a quick snap in type..

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2641-mortise-tenon-jig-plunge-router.html


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

With the 8" sq. plate on the battery type PC router..


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## Gweedz (Jul 6, 2010)

Thanks for posting that Jim, I didn't know it existed.
I like your setup Bob, looks like it offers the most flexibility of any system out there. If I want 2 inner red rings do I have to buy 2 complete sets or is the ring available separately?
Now I just need to find out of HF ships to Canada.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guido

Your Welcome 

Yes, you can buy the rings " separately " but not sure why you would want to do that, the rings are 11.oo dollars and the plate is only 15.oo dollars..you can always use the plate in many ways..plus you get some great magnets with the plate that can be used for box lid/door latchs

Router Table Plate

Router accessories

*Replacement Rings & Guide Pin*
#9329 ................................SALE *$10.95* 
====



Gweedz said:


> Thanks for posting that Jim, I didn't know it existed.
> I like your setup Bob, looks like it offers the most flexibility of any system out there. If I want 2 inner red rings do I have to buy 2 complete sets or is the ring available separately?
> Now I just need to find out of HF ships to Canada.


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## Tisdai (Aug 29, 2010)

can i just highjack this thread for a quicky question, I bought this router plate that is on the Rouer Accessories link in your post bob, It is the Gold 1/4" thick aluminum.

What sets would fit this plate " Rings i mean " forgot to put this in the original post,, , and what would you recomend for it as i bought it in the uk and it only came with 2 rings.

Cheers

Dave


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Tisdai said:


> can i just highjack this thread for a quicky question, I bought this router plate that is on the Rouer Accessories link in your post bob, It is the Gold 1/4" thick aluminum.
> 
> What sets would fit this plate " Rings i mean " forgot to put this in the original post,, , and what would you recomend for it as i bought it in the uk and it only came with 2 rings.
> 
> ...


Hi Dave, I've got that plate and I just made my own from some 3/32" (~2.5 mm) acrylic. That thin of stock the OD cuts easily and quickly with a circle cutter and the ID with a forstner bit.


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## Tisdai (Aug 29, 2010)

cool i will be able to make any size ring that way, 
cheers John,  Sorry for the mess-up with the name  Thanks again for the tip m8 appreciate it.

Dave


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

Just in case you don't want to make a full set you can buy a set and then just sand them down to fit..or make a twist lock fixture to hold them in place in your Alum. router plate 



Amazon.com: Twist Lock Ring Set, 8 Piece, Router Insert Rings: Home Improvement

========


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## Tisdai (Aug 29, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Dave
> 
> Just in case you don't want to make a full set you can buy a set and then just sand them down to fit..or make a twist lock fixture to hold them in place in your Alum. router plate
> 
> ...


hi Bob

Where you mention " make a twist lock fixture " do you mean the rod as shown in the attatched pic, or alter the actual insert plate.

Cheers

Dave


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Tisdai said:


> cool i will be able to make any size ring that way,
> cheers John,  Sorry for the mess-up with the name  Thanks again for the tip m8 appreciate it.
> 
> Dave


Not a problem Dave - now that I think about it, you probably gave credit where it belonged anyway. I think I got that tip from Bj in the first place


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave


The lock in tool/bar is not needed the norm,the fence is over the insert 90% of the time holding it down,,if not the stock is over the insert the rest of the time,,the vac.system will hold it down most of the time, you can grind the insert to fit the keys but it's not a easy job,in the snapshot below you will see a lip that the insert sits on that's all it needs most of the time...


=========


Tisdai said:


> hi Bob
> 
> Where you mention " make a twist lock fixture " do you mean the rod as shown in the attatched pic, or alter the actual insert plate.
> 
> ...


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## Tisdai (Aug 29, 2010)

jschaben said:


> Not a problem Dave - now that I think about it, you probably gave credit where it belonged anyway. I think I got that tip from Bj in the first place


:haha::haha: lol cheers m8 appreciate it, 



> Hi Dave
> 
> 
> The lock in tool/bar is not needed the norm,the fence is over the insert 90% of the time holding it down,,if not the stock is over the insert the rest of the time,,the vac.system will hold it down most of the time, you can grind the insert to fit the keys but it's not a easy job,in the snapshot below you will see a lip that the insert sits on that's all it needs most of the time...


Nice 1 cheers for that " is it bob or bj " lol 

Cheers guys appreciate your help

Dave


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

Just to add to this base/collar thread...

For those that are making their own base plates, what is the best method for creating the PC collar shelf? 

After seeing some of the nice options for the Colt, I made my own tonight (pics later), and the last step is creating the correct hole to accept my PC style collars.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

"correct hole"
Take a ride down to Peach Tree and pickup two bits.
Right in your back yard almost 

Forstner Bit Set - Peachtree Woodworking Supply


# 877

1-3/16"... Forstner Bit

# 880

1-3/8" .....Forstner Bit

======



Ayrton said:


> Just to add to this base/collar thread...
> 
> For those that are making their own base plates, what is the best method for creating the PC collar shelf?
> 
> After seeing some of the nice options for the Colt, I made my own tonight (pics later), and the last step is creating the correct hole to accept my PC style collars.


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

That is pretty much what I was thinking... I just thought I would ask anyway. 

The good new is this is the perfect excuse to finally buy that set of Grizzly bits. :dance3:


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

Ok, do I want to go cheap and get HCS?

H7694 Master Forstner Bit 31 pc. Set $39.99

Or step up to the same kit in HSS?

H7956 HSS 31 pc. Forstner Bit Set w/ Hex Shank $139

I don't remember if the set Fine Woodworking loved so much was HCS, or HSS.


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

NVM, I pulled the trigger on the HCS set.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

I would have suggested one of the sets off eBay for 20.oo bucks and just pickup the 1 3/16" size from Peach..that way you get what you need for about 27.oo bucks.

Grizzy has the odd ball sizes in one set and the normal sizes in the other sets, but that will put the price at about 100.oo.. but it's your money..  I can show you the water but I can't make you drink.. 

H3128 Forstner Bit 15 pc. Set 1/16" Filler Hex Shank TiN Coated

H6334 Forstner Bit 16 pc. Set Ground Tips


Grizzly.com® -- Search Results

OR this one

31 Piece Forstner Bit Set for 100.oo bucks
http://www.ptreeusa.com/forstner_bit_sets.htm

Just a side note,many of the same items from Grizzy/Peach can be had at a better price from Amazon PLUS you can get free shipping if you are not in a rush, the shipping charge can make or break a great deal on the price  bottom line thing.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DD4MH/ref=oss_product
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Ayrton said:


> NVM, I pulled the trigger on the HCS set.


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

This is the kit I ordered...

Amazon.com: Grizzly H7694 Master Forstner Bit 31 pc. Set: Home Improvement


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## Ayrton (Sep 12, 2010)

I apologize for not posting up the final creation sooner. 

Instead of spending $30+ on a premade base, I used a piece of plexi I had in the shop, and cut two handles from a Newell post ($2)



















Thank you for the help everyone.


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

Nice job!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Ayrton said:


> I apologize for not posting up the final creation sooner.
> 
> Instead of spending $30+ on a premade base, I used a piece of plexi I had in the shop, and cut two handles from a Newell post ($2)


That's what this forum is all about. Providing the information and the encouragement for people to try. My sequence for cutting a baseplate is to layout and cut the largest hole first, then all the small holes after that. I figure if I screw up on the big hole I didn't waste all kinds of time drilling all the small holes;-)

Nicely done.


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