# Big cutters small routers



## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

History of big cutters.

Prior to the 70's, routers were trimmers, small cutters only.
A 2 HP router was about it
A 1.5" cutter was a big one. Long ones were just as uncommon.
Most routing was x hand and the router table was undeveloped.
Then inch x inch, cutters got bigger. The imports dominated.
Italy, Israel, Spain, Austrailia, Germany, Taiwan, then Mainland China.
And no body could touch the Chinese price wise.
And they had no trouble scaling up the size of cutters. 
To gain market share, they redesigned shaper cutters into router bits.
3 and 4" cutters in length and width were and are common.

Now what may not be in your face is the power it takes to run one of these cutters.
Waste volume increases x the square. A 1/2" x 1/2" x L cut (.25"L) is 4 x larger than 1/4" x 1/4" x L rabbet for example. Shapers could care less about the waste or the diameter of its cutters.
They're made for this kind of duty. And note, it is all table duty, tables of cast iron, fences of aluminum and steel, combined weights of motor, hardware and stand reaching hundreds of pounds.
5 horse power is not an uncommon motor on a shaper.

I use no cutter >2" in length or width whether x hand or on the router table.
Routers fit well into this confinement. They may, however, be over worked if a 2" cutter is used to its full profile in one shot. And to be sure, bigger cutters impose bigger risks. On the router table there is a lot of 
natural protection between you and the cutter. I use a curtain fence; all of the unused portion of 
the cutters on my table are hidden behind the curtain. The work covers the rest of it; I can't get bit.

Now put a 3 or 4" cutter in a hand router and watch for law suits. I have been involved in 2 of them; neither joyful. A 3" cutter in a hand router (with a 7" casting) starts the tool with <2" of the casting on the work. Move to the end of the board, make a 90 degree turn and there is essentially <20% of that 7" disk-subbase on the corner. The router is out of your control. Make a bigger subbase and you will buy back some floor space but not necessarily a lot of protection. The dynamics of hand routing are far different than those of the router table. That is where some of the surprises are.

The Point: Are folks using big cutters in small routers? Indeed.
Are they/you at risk? Of course. Is it worth the risk, especially with a hand router?
Ask yourself "Did he fire 6 shots or only 5"?
I ain't gonna find out.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I like the analogy Pat, thanks for sharing this. It looks like your curtain would work well on any fence with T track installed. Since this is for impact protection I am guessing you use Lexan?


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Mike (and Pat)

I think what Pat described is not a plexiglass or lexan shield, but rather a conventional router fence with split fence extension to curtain or cover the unused part of the cutting edge of the bit... which also helps support the edge of the work from excessive tearout. Is that right Pat? If not, then could you post a pic to see?

I use this "same" when I do raised panels... but with a few mods. 

I set my bit and fence for a finish cut. I have plywood stock cut the same dimensions as my split fence extentions, in thickness of 3/4", 5/8", 1/2, 3/8" 1/4". I use these shims between the split fence and fence to step the panel into the bit in 1/4" to 1/8" increments, depending on the wood density... until I get to a finish cut.

I do this, because it's faster to adjust and step in that way than to reset the fence each time and it is easy to manage. Each step in I can curtain or shield the bit at what is exposed at that depth of cut. The height really isn't adjusted once it's set.

Rule of thumb is no more than 1/4" at a time. Some hardwoods less. Coming into it at an 1 1/2" at one time would be insanity. There's no way to safely control the piece because it would grab. Even if you did, taking that much at one time would result in an unusable profile from gauling and burning. Panel bits are pricey enough that you don't want to have to replace or sharpen them too often by doing something stupid.

Out of a table? Bigger bit, more power and weight to the router... Then you also get gyroscopic forces that people don't _even_ expect. Bit that size grabs because the user went too deep at one time or it pulled itself too deep, then everything multiplies and it breeds a life of it's own. You add support until you might as well have it in a table anyway. Yes, I can see some of that...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Making panels for doors are easy and safe with a Hand router if you use the Vert.Panel bits,just like putting a edge profile on the edge ,it can be done if the panel is clamp to the work bench or in vert.jig to hold it up and on edge..just like putting slots in place.

Note the router can be turned down in speed to 8.000 rpm and do a great job no need to run them at 23,000 rpm. and yes I have done it.. 

MLCS Horizontal Router Table

OR if all you have is a 1/4" router it can be done safe in a apple box router table. ▼ the bits are trapped in a pocket hole in the fence so to speak.. 

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/30226-panel-doors-1-4-router.html

==
==


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob- 

So, I've never seen those bits before. Are you saying the cutter on a conventional panel bit (horizontal) is say 3/4" long and 3 1/2 " around... Then the same cutter profile in a vertical version ends up as 3" long x 1 1/2" around? That would be safer. It would also open some new avenues for me in matching profiles. I like that.

You know you are going to talk me into a horizontal table yet and it's going to be all your fault. LOL


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

Once you have one you will say the same as I " I don't how I got along with out it" it can do many,many jobs,like the 
*"Mortising" Table Top Accessory*


MLCS Horizontal Router Table

http://www.eaglelakewoodworking.com/post/MLCS-Horizontal-Router-Table.aspx

==


MAFoElffen said:


> Bob-
> 
> So, I've never seen those bits before. Are you saying the cutter on a conventional panel bit (horizontal) is say 3/4" long and 3 1/2 " around... Then the same cutter profile in a vertical version ends up as 3" long x 1 1/2" around? That would be safer. It would also open some new avenues for me in matching profiles. I like that.
> 
> You know you are going to talk me into a horizontal table yet and it's going to be all your fault. LOL


----------



## friendly1too (Sep 25, 2004)

There are a great many designs for a shop-made horizontal router table, and some of them seem quite simple to make.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Quillman said:


> History of big cutters.
> 
> Prior to the 70's, routers were trimmers, small cutters only.
> A 2 HP router was about it
> ...


That was a very interesting post Pat. However I believe that most routing could and probably should be carried out with a hand held plunge router, unaided where most of the base sits on the work-piece or ski mounted or with the aid of a support utilizing the side fence holes. By using this method I believe it is IMPOSSIBLE for fingers to touch the bit, any sign of trouble, releasing pressure on the router allows the bit to safely retract into the body of the router.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I have made many of them and most of them are just lame,the simple ones just don't work well..

===


friendly1too said:


> There are a great many designs for a shop-made horizontal router table, and some of them seem quite simple to make.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Pat

Well said! I agree with you wholeheartedly on this subject. a router ISN'T a shaper (spindle moulder) and shouldn't be regarded as such. I rarely use large diameter cutters, partly on safety grounds, but I do use some very long cutters such as 120mm pocket hole cutters for lock mortising. They are a very specific design, for a very specific purpose and have a very short cutting edge relative to their overall length. The longest cutter I use is normally 1 2in (50mm) bearing guided trimmer, although I do own a 3in (75mm) one. That must be used with extreme care and only ever take very light cuts because otherwise it is just far too easy to have a dig in - with the inevitable consequences.

Wow, and that was post #1,000. How many to get a fourth gold star, anyone?

Regards

Phil


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

stars

http://www.routerforums.com/routerforums-com-news-feedback/11059-new-post-ranks.html

http://www.routerforums.com/routerforums-com-news-feedback/12878-new-ranks.html

==


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob- 

So the one you built in that 2 year old thread was worth building or not? (can't find it at the moment...) I know you keep showing me your 2 MCLS tables. Now it's coming together as an understandable picture in my head, as you told me about the bits. If so, I think I have enough lumber and all thread... 

EDIT-- Pop. Just thought that there's going to be another tool discussion with my girlfriend trying to explain to her why I need to buy another series of panel bits...


bobj3 said:


> I have made many of them and most of them are just lame,the simple ones just don't work well..
> 
> ===


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

Yes " worth building", I have only one MLCS tables and the one below
http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9782-best-both-worlds.html
Space in the shop was getting low that's why I made the one above..but both work great..you don't need to use the Alum.track some good hardwood will work just as well...but the router mounting plate is the key for this type..but it's only 13.oo dollars,,

The lame ones are the type that you see in many woodworking books

==========


MAFoElffen said:


> Bob-
> 
> So the one you built in that 2 year old thread was worth building or not? (can't find it at the moment...) I know you keep showing me your 2 MCLS tables. Now it's coming together as an understandable picture in my head, as you told me about the bits. If so, I think I have enough lumber and all thread...


----------

