# Planing with the router and simple inlays



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The forum is a little light on for projects since the close of the competition so I thought that I would present a small project to demonstrate using the router mounted on skis also some simple inlay work.
The box frame was made some time ago to test a new mitre jig and seemed too good to bin. I had a board which was quite curved but had I passed it over the jointer a few times then through the planer it would have been paper thin so I cut it up to make the top and bottom and show here how I planed it with the router.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The cut-out for the inlay is made with a template made for a previous project and just has a correct size hole for the template guide to follow, just a reminder on calculating the hole size:

Radius of guide + radius of cutter + size of the inlay = size of hole in template


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well folks, that's it for now.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Well folks, that's it for now.



Well, not quite, I've just found this shot which shows the set-up for routing the recess for the top inlay. The block at the right is the same height as the work-piece and is to keep the template level.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Okay Harry, I had a quick look this morning before I had to run off for the office and knew I wanted to look at this closer tonight. Glad I remembered! 

The Ski thing really hasn't grabbed me until I seen those pics this morning. Now I can see a use for that one for a guy that doesn't have a planer. How thick was the board before you planed it and how thick after? Can I ask how come you didn't do the other side and is further warping etc. a concern ? Please understand that I am not badgering you on this... I sincerely don't know what to expect and that is why I asked. This intrigues me. Thanks for posting that Harry. I will have to check out those Ski instructions again. I have some box stock that is 3/8 and 1/2 inch that is curved with about a 1/16 off the level surface in the middle of the board so it seems I should be able to do this on both sides to save the stock, even if I end up with 1/4 to 3/8 stock... it will still be more usable then it is now. 

The inlay.... That gets me all revved up. That's the kind of thing I want to do more of. I can use my Milescraft Inlay and Spirocrafter to make inlays and or carvings and this is really something I want to do on my boxes in the future. I like what you did on this and that's a neat little jazzed up box. I would have to use my inlay bushing set though or the Milescraft set up! 

Thanks for the post Harry and all the pics! BTW, thats how I line my boxes as well. I use 1/8 hardboard on smaller boxes and cover them like that. I use mat board for larger boxes. 

Corey

Another question, what cutter do you use for the planing operation. Looks like a spiral bit maybe cut wouldn't something flat bottomed like a hinge mortising or dado clean up bit work well for this?


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Harry,

Oh La La..... Nice post!

Watching for your reply to Corey's questions for more info and hope you are an early riser  

Gotta love that fantastic box.


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Lovely work, Harry! I particularly like the inlays. On the subject of planing with router, what kind of bit do you use? I've only tried it once (using a straight bit) and wound up with small circular marks on the board face - or is it that I just didn't level-up properly and keep a regular distance from the face?


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Well I am heading to bed as I got to get up early in the morning and catch a plane. Be back on Thursday night and will check back then Harry. Have a good week all!

Corey


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## tileart (Jul 4, 2007)

Harry, that is a beautiful box! I love the inlay. So far I've only been able to manage those out of granite.  

Here's (another) stupid question: How did you make the inlay itself, or did you?
I would love to be able to present my customers with a box inlaid with a matching design of their tile work - that would definitely leave an impression.
(Please let me know if I should start a separate thread for this question.)


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Pretty sure based on a previous post by Harry that he purchased the inlays. You can get them from different sources in the U.S. and abroad. Rockler sells them here in the U.S. 

Corey


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

challagan said:


> Okay Harry, I had a quick look this morning before I had to run off for the office and knew I wanted to look at this closer tonight. Glad I remembered!
> 
> The Ski thing really hasn't grabbed me until I seen those pics this morning. Now I can see a use for that one for a guy that doesn't have a planer. How thick was the board before you planed it and how thick after? Can I ask how come you didn't do the other side and is further warping etc. a concern ? Please understand that I am not badgering you on this... I sincerely don't know what to expect and that is why I asked. This intrigues me. Thanks for posting that Harry. I will have to check out those Ski instructions again. I have some box stock that is 3/8 and 1/2 inch that is curved with about a 1/16 off the level surface in the middle of the board so it seems I should be able to do this on both sides to save the stock, even if I end up with 1/4 to 3/8 stock... it will still be more usable then it is now.
> 
> ...


Corey, the board itself was 10.5mm but on a flat surface convex side up it was12.5mm meaning that at least 2mm had to be removed from each side, this would have left a board no more than 6mm thick, a little less than 1/4", too thin really for most projects. I used the curved board especially to demonstrate the ski mounted router in use. I didn't bother planing the inside of the bottom 1..the bottom would have been thin and 2..it can't be seen under the felt! (what the eye can't see, the heart can't grieve) The cutter I used was a 10mm end cutter, that is one with an extra cutting blade on the end, quite expensive here but as cheap as chips in the USA!.I think that the larger the diameter the better and can't see any reason why dado cutters couldn't be used. The question of surface circles has been mentioned,bear in mind that the router is controlled by the ski ends, so no pressure is applied to the router itself so the depth of cut shouldn't vary along the length of cut and going along the grain ensures a smooth finish that only needs two strokes of 600grade paper! If I have forgotten anything, don't hesitate to ask. I'm sorry for the late hour of this post, but blame you're senior moderator who Skyped me as I was about to log on to the forum and when we get talking time stands still!!!!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Roger, as Corey pointed out, I buy the inlays ready made, I know that in a way it's cheating, however I simply lack the artistic talent and patience needed to make my own. But YOU Roger who does this sort of thing on a larger canvas on a daily basis should have little difficulty. Collect a range of veneers, rout a recess of whatever shape you require by the methods that I have shown and cut the required shapes/colours to fit as you would tiles. I think this is what is meant when they say "those who can, do, those who can't, teach"! Good luck to you and do keep us up to date with you're progress.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Thanks Harry, got to run but will look more closely when I get back!

Corey


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Planing bits- bottom cleaning bits.

I've had good results with these, and they aren't too expensive.

http://magnate.net/index.cfm?event=showProductGroup&theID=136


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Doug, they look perfect for the job and as I suggested, as cheap as chips over there.


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

Any problems with rods flexing?
I used steel rods on my setup few years back and still got flexing.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

As mentioned, my rods are 12mm but I think that 10mm should be OK bearing in mind that you do NOT touch the router itself, all control is from the ends so the leverage that this gives has to be experienced, it is totally different to what you are used to.
Perhaps someone like Bj. might hop in and tell me what size hole the most common routers in the USA have, also possibly people in other countries.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Harry,

Nice example of the use of the router supports...The guide rods on my Porter Cable 895 router don't go all the way through the base, so I had to make a sub base to allow me to use Tom's router supports, and all of the black spray paint in the world wouldn't make them look as GOOD as yours, but they do work GREAT!  

I used 1/2" drill rod, but I used clamping blocks on mine instead of threading the ends of the rods, so I am able to adjust the span between the supports to accomodate a smaller working surface with my supports. I have only used them so far for added support when I was using templates and they have really worked out great for that task  

I'll try to take some pictures of my setup before I go to bed tonight.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm sure that we all look forward to seeing you're photos Greg.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Well it's a bit dark out but I think you can get the idea of my router supports from these pictures...

I used Bob's knobs and Niki's non-slip to hold everything together


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Oh yeah...I also used a piece of 8mm laminate flooring for a temporary base plate. I intend to replace it with a pice of 12mm acrylic for better visability, but so far the laminate flooring has showed no signs of deflection and remains very flat with the weight of the router.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Greg, how can ANY woodworker now have an excuse to not make a set of skis?
You sure are a lateral thinker, you did a great job of designing and making them, I'm sure Tom will feel that he is at last making progress, I know that he was becoming despondent in his quest for some acceptance of his methods.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Here's the router sled I made.. 18" wide for smaller projects..


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike, you have shown that many problems can have multiple answers. That is a very ingenious variation on the skis. It is for this very reason that I the suggested that it might be a good idea if Tom and I posted a photograph of a finished project and asked for ideas on how viewers would go about it BEFORE giving OUR method, I'm sure that we would be pleasantly surprised at the range of ideas. What are you're personal views Mike?


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Greg, how can ANY woodworker now have an excuse to not make a set of skis?. . .


Hmm --- maybe --
Because they don't want to?
Because they don't see any benefit to it for the specific kinds of work they do?
Because they are as happy and excited with their way of doing things as anybody else may be with theirs?

Hey -- you asked  

NOT criticising the 'ski's at all ---
I think they are a GREAT idea -- for some projects and some people.
I thought they were a great idea back in 1979 when I read about them in a Black and Decker how-to book I bought when I got my first router.
(they used wood rails and an edge guide - but the concept and the result was pretty much the same).

But I don't buy that anyone who doesn't follow this procedure - or any other specific pet procedure is - by definition -- ill informed or whatever --

Sorry --


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"But I don't buy that anyone who doesn't follow this procedure - or any other specific pet procedure is - by definition -- ill informed or whatever --"

Cowboy, no one is being asked to FOLLOW Tom's methods, he is only trying to TEMPT people to TRY his methods. Tom has never claimed to have INVENTED ski routing, he only claims to have DEVELOPED it in combination with template guides so that woodworkers have these ADDITIONAL skills to call upon. Just look at the medical profession, complex surgery is now being performed by remote controlled equipment and I'm led to believe that there is less chance of what could be fatal errors. These surgeons were prepared to TRY these new methods and I'm sure that they dont do all surgery this way. What more can I say????????????????????????????????????????


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Cowboy, no one is being asked to FOLLOW Tom's methods, he is only trying to TEMPT people to TRY his methods. . .


To that terminology - I would say a hearty AMEN --:sold: 

And to your surgery analogy - I would add this one from an old preacher friend of mine --
Upon hearing some of his more -- 'traditional' -- brethren brag about their '40 years experience in the ministry' --
He would smile and say
-- no -- you have had ONE year's experience - 40 times.

No - I didn't think Tom was making any false claims -- 
My point was actually to SUPPORT what he was saying 
by pointing out others who have said similar things.

I wasn't at all questioning the value of his method - or the need to be exposed to a variety of methods.
Just reacting -- possibly over-reacting -- to some of the rhetoric that has been used in several different posts - *far* different from your phrasing here.

What more can you say -- 
I think you made the point VERY well -- 
I just wish it was always presented in that tone -- 

I'm new here -- I don't always recognize when some of you are intentionally overstating your case for effect. I'll try not to take things so literally.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Cowboy, I'm an amateur diplomat, Tom is a skilled routologist, I'm hoping that in time we shall meet each other half way!


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Mike, nice job on the ski set up. I will have to consider that as well. Thanks for posting it. 

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Cowboy, I'm an amateur diplomat, Tom is a skilled routologist, I'm hoping that in time *we shall meet each other half way!*


Harry, I think you and Tom are very good and clever diplomats.

Just curious... what is your definition of 
*"we shall meet each other half way!"*?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Harry, I think you and Tom are very good and clever diplomats.
> 
> Just curious... what is your definition of
> *"we shall meet each other half way!"*?


 Joe, I have my diplomats hat on at the moment and think you are probably one of the few on the forum who didn't understand my meaning, so I shall have to spell it out.
Some members of the forum tend to take offence at the way that Tom sometimes words things and I attempt to smooth the waters so to speak, so what I meant was simply in time it would be nice if MY routing skills improved and TOM'S way with words improved, thereby meeting halfway.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Joe, I have my diplomats hat on at the moment and think you are probably one of the few on the forum who didn't understand my meaning, so I shall have to spell it out.
> Some members of the forum tend to take offence at the way that Tom sometimes words things and I attempt to smooth the waters so to speak, so what I meant was simply in time it would be nice if MY routing skills improved and TOM'S way with words improved, thereby meeting halfway.


Harry,

I'm NOT offended by your choice of words... I just didn't know what you meant by it...

*To me,* this Forum has always been up to sharing methods, techniques, etc. with each other... Everybody DOES it... ALL the time... There is no 'meeting anyone halfway' or 'converting' people to do it another way... It's presented, talked about, commented on, improvements discussed, alternates discussed, redesigned, tried as desired, reviewed, and left at that. 

... and I hope I'm NOT offending you or Tom... NOT trying to...

Take care...


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Well -- I stirred up this whole thing - sorry -- 
I was not so much offended by anything as - surprised --

When I first stumbled onto this forum -- I was excited to see a place just like Joe described -

". . .It's presented, talked about, commented on, improvements discussed, alternates discussed, redesigned, tried as desired, reviewed, and left at that. "

But more and more here lately I have seen particular procedures that *have been *presented with terms like -
"convince people" "keep the pressure up" and that people who didn't use this procedure were just "doing what they have always done" not really thinking, and if that procedure wasn't the one being discussed you weren't really discussing routing. And if someone chose to do something different - 
it was like it sas a personal rejection.

I'm sorry --- but that whole attitude just throws me -
I've been around it in other contexts - religious / political etc -- 
and it just grates -
It came as a surprise to me here because it seemed really out of place in a forum dedicated to a free and open exchange.

_None_ of this may have been _meant_ the way it was said --- but that is one of the weaknesses of text --- you cant see grins or hear the inflection of the voice -- you can only go by what is said. 
I fall victim to that myself - since dry humor does not convey well in print.

I did not mean to offend anyone in any way -
I've never met anyone on here - so nothing I say is personal in any way.
And by that same token I dont know anyone here well enough to be offended BY them. If someone likes my thoughts/ideas I'm glad -- if not -- I figure it's because you have something that works better for you - and I am happy for you and eager to see it-- 

I would suggest that ANY idea you want to promote will get a better hearing from a wider selection of people if it is presented in the way Joe and Harry describe.

I've been told I was like an old hunk of rope.
You can lead/pull me almost anywhere - and I will tend to go along and work with you --
but if you try to PUSH me -- I'm just gonna pile up on you.
I suspect there are a lot more people like me - they just keep their mouths shut.
THAT unfortunately is a skill I haven't developed very well.
*I promise to work on it. *


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> Well -- I stirred up this whole thing - sorry --
> I was not so much offended by anything as - surprised --
> 
> When I first stumbled onto this forum -- I was excited to see a place just like Joe described -
> ...


Hi Druggie... 

I guess it's "language" thing... as described to me...

Don't get too excited about it... I'm sure it wasn't meant to offend anyone... It's the "choice of words" that is the reason, etc.

I know the feeling... Perhaps it's more apparent now that I'm not the only one that doesn't quite understand the "choice of words" once in awhile...

I'm sure Harry and Tom will take this as constructive criticism and not be offended by any of it. Hope so, anyway.

Till then, take care...


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Greg, how can ANY woodworker now *have an excuse to not make a set of skis?*
> You sure are a lateral thinker, you did a great job of designing and making them, *I'm sure Tom will feel that he is at last making progress,* I know that he was becoming despondent in his quest for some acceptance of his methods.


*Harry, in the above "choice of words", it appears to me that you and Tom are out to "promote" Tom's methods... and you're "making progress", etc.*

Tom is "becoming despondent in his quest"?

Those choice of words look pretty clear to me...

Perhaps Tom should setup his own website and merely have a link to it from this Forum as well as other Forums to promote his methods and perhaps sell new DVD's that will be available in the near future? Then, maybe he won't feel so bad.

All of this is being said "tongue in cheek"... :sold:  

It's this attitude that Druggie, etc. are talking about.

Hope you had a good nights sleep...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"All of this is being said "tongue in cheek".."

That's not how it comes over Joe, perhaps Tom isn't the only one who has difficulty with their choice of words. I have a very thick skin, and so long as the general opinion is that Tom and I carry on as we are, then at least I shall, that is as long as the MAJORITY want it that way.
No offence taken by me Joe, please carry on Skyping and emailing me to prove it.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Holy Moly, did this thread get hijacked, or what?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

It sure looks like it. Perhaps it might be a good idea to have a special place where those who wish can release their pent up emotions!


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> It sure looks like it. Perhaps it might be a good idea to have a special place where those who wish can release their pent up emotions!


That appears to be the result -- but it certainly wasn't my intent.
The question was asked - why would anyone not do this - 
and --yes -- I know it was a rhetorical question --
BUT -- I proposed some answers anyway --
At this point we were still pretty much on-topic -----

BUT -- it kinda went downhill from there.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

You're in no way to blame Cowboy, it stops us all from going to sleep at the keyboard.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Not Planing... Jointing...

A simple & easy way...
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=3362


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I hope that in the drawing the router is near the END of the cut not the beginning.


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## nzgeordie (Oct 22, 2006)

Just like to say thanks for the answer to post 7 of this thread.


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## garyo1954 (Dec 19, 2007)

Since I'm wanting to do some inlay this will be a great project for me Harry. 
Thanks for posting it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

In return Gary we expect to see some photographs! Enjoy yourself like I do.


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## garyo1954 (Dec 19, 2007)

Harry, I promise the pics but first I have to get the skis built. I purchased the 1/2" rods this morning to get started. 

The don't fit. Calipers say the opening is .484.
The rods on the edge guide holder are .482.

The ones I bought are .49.

Did you take your's down with emory cloth, or drop down a size?

Thanks, 

G


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