# Mortise Machines...Suggestions on Which One



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

So I'm thinking the near future may hold a new piece of machinery for the shop. I've looked into mortisers and am curious who is happy with theirs and what model they have. In my shop it would get a fair bit of work as I have plenty of furniture projects in the works but again it's a hobby shop and not a business. Most reviews I've read seem clear that most are not familiar with how they are used and have unrealistic expectations. The biggest complaint I hear is the cutters are poor quality and dull. From what I've read and I expect is in the manuals is that the cutters need sharpening first much like chisels.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think all manufacturers are shipping product with only cursory sharpening these days. Surprised table saw blades don't arrive dull. 

Here's info and video on sharpening these chisels: https://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/06/02/how-to-sharpen-hollow-chisel-mortising-bits

Some sharpening gadgets for those chisels https://www.amazon.com/mortise-chisel-sharpener/s?k=mortise+chisel+sharpener

I've looked at a number of these and of like the PowerMatic, but the following article makes me rethink the choice: Here's an interesting website on mortising machines with lots of info, and some editor ratings that look pretty informative. https://www.popularwoodworking.com/questions-and-answers/benchtop-mortisers/

Hope this helps. interesting in that last article the comments about RPM differences, and also about cheap bits.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I have the Powermatic...
does everything I want...
LeeValley Chisels and their sharpening cone have proven to been a good value and quality...
the table and clamps are 1st rate...
the Jet is a lighter weight version...

I had a Delta and absolutely hated it...


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Which model Stick?


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sreilly said:


> Which model Stick?


PM701 and 719T...
the more HP sure is nice...


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I wanted to make mortises years ago and couldn't afford a mortising machine so I got the mortising attachment for my DP instead. I was using it recently and realized that the DP and attachment has a far greater range than the dedicated mortiser will do. Mortisers only have about a 6" travel I think where the DP could do something over two feet tall or thick. Plus you eliminate the footprint of another machine and the cost is around $120 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000223B4/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

I agree with getting the diamond cones from LV for sharpening them. Even just spinning them by hand will sharpen the edges of the chisel to razor sharp. 2 or 3 seconds in a drill is probably enough.


----------



## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I bought a Delta years ago and it works fine BUT over the years I haven't used it enough to justify the price I paid for it. It all depends on how much you will be using it. In my case I could have bought something else that I would have used more. With the number of mortises I have made I could have just as well used my plunge router. I bought it because I had a customer who was big into doll furniture but that dried up pretty quickly. It was good for the small joinery.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Morning Chuck,

I guess I wonder how well you can secure the wood using a drill press? I have an old Clausen drill press that doesn't have the geared table raiser and is a real pia to move up and down. It is adjustable speed though and works well for my needs. I'll have to check the HP rating but I think it's an old commercial unit I picked up from a friend some years ago. It's a free standing unit as well. Turns out the DP has a 3/4 HP motor. Pictures attached....


----------



## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Hi Steve that is a nice DP Clausing makes nice equipment. We had a Clausing metal lathe at a shop I used to work at it lasted forever. I wonder if you could rig up a scissor jack between the base and the table to make it easier to raise the table up and down?


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

roxanne562001 said:


> Hi Steve that is a nice DP Clausing makes nice equipment. We had a Clausing metal lathe at a shop I used to work at it lasted forever. I wonder if you could rig up a scissor jack between the base and the table to make it easier to raise the table up and down?


Hey Roxanne,

Yes I had looked at that a few times and about the only thing I came across was using a lift like that used on a boat trailer. I just haven't quite figured out how that would be attached securely. I installed a 12 volt lift on our 25" travel trailer that works quite well and that style could likely be adapted. I even have a few 12 volt 10 amp power supplies that are spares for the observatory. Thanks for reminding me.....


----------



## Ed3443 (Jul 7, 2013)

Hi Steve,

This one is on sale right now until Monday. Seems to have good reviews.

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Shop-Fox-Mortising-Machine/W1671


----------



## Ed3443 (Jul 7, 2013)

Steve,

Here is a review I found. https://cdn0.grizzly.com/pdf/wood_5-12.pdf PM seems the one to buy.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

sreilly said:


> Morning Chuck,
> 
> I guess I wonder how well you can secure the wood using a drill press? I have an old Clausen drill press that doesn't have the geared table raiser and is a real pia to move up and down. It is adjustable speed though and works well for my needs. I'll have to check the HP rating but I think it's an old commercial unit I picked up from a friend some years ago. It's a free standing unit as well. Turns out the DP has a 3/4 HP motor. Pictures attached....


You need to add the clamping mechanism for the DP attachment to an auxiliary table you clamp to the table on the DP. The attachment clamps onto the DP's quill just above the chuck. I think most sizes are standard these days but I'm not sure what you would have. The attachment comes with different size bushings to accommodate several sizes of quill. My Delta 16.5" is the largest size at I think 66 mm. It takes about 10 minutes to attach everything to the DP and start making mortises.

A camper or RV lift jack might be the ticket for quick height changes on the table.


----------



## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

Ed3443 said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> This one is on sale right now until Monday. Seems to have good reviews.
> 
> https://www.grizzly.com/products/Shop-Fox-Mortising-Machine/W1671


The Shop Fox at Grizzly runs at 3450 rpm. IMO, 3450 rpm is too fast for a mortiser. I have a Jet, which runs at 1725 rpm and works great. I've owned mine for at least 30 years. The Powermatic also runs at 1725 rpm. I don't use my Jet any longer, unless I have a project requiring particularly deep mortises. For most purposes these days, I rely on my CNC, or my Festool Domino.

Although the price is clearly obscene, the Festool Domino, which uses loose tenons, is the fastest, most reliable and versatile solution for mortise & tenon work. You can use it in place of conventional M&T joints, and can also use them for edge gluing boards. The fit tends to be tighter than biscuits, and the overall results better. The Domino works best for regular casework. For larger work, the Domino XL works better. Just offering a more versatile alternative to a dedicated mortise machine.

Here's a link to the Domino 500: https://festools-online.com/media/catalog/product/cache/e6b5fb7bfcf8f21ce74679c09f82fe9c/5/7/576693-festool.png


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> You need to add the clamping mechanism for the DP attachment to an auxiliary table you clamp to the table on the DP. The attachment clamps onto the DP's quill just above the chuck. I think most sizes are standard these days but I'm not sure what you would have. The attachment comes with different size bushings to accommodate several sizes of quill. My Delta 16.5" is the largest size at I think 66 mm. It takes about 10 minutes to attach everything to the DP and start making mortises.
> 
> A camper or RV lift jack might be the ticket for quick height changes on the table.



I have an old Walker Turner 15" DP and the mortising attachment does not fit over the chuck...

Thanks for posting the size you have...will have to measure the attachment to see if a different one would work over my chuck.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> A camper or RV lift jack might be the ticket for quick height changes on the table.


ratcheting trailer strap is way easier..


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> ratcheting trailer strap is way easier..


Easier and cheaper but you would have to move the table into the general range before using it as you can only wind up so much of the webbing before the turnbuckle is full. A trailer jack wouldn't have as much limitation nor require as much physical effort but it would cost many times more money.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"... but it would cost many times more money."
.Princess Auto. 
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-000-lb-bolt-on-swivel-trailer-jack/A-p8712317e


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Nickp said:


> I have an old Walker Turner 15" DP and the mortising attachment does not fit over the chuck...
> 
> Thanks for posting the size you have...will have to measure the attachment to see if a different one would work over my chuck.


Nick if you need precise sizes let me know and I'll go measure what I have. I thought I only had two sizes of bushings but the current picture shows three. The attachment with no bushings added fits the Delta 16.5. One other size was either 44 or 45mm as I recall.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> "... but it would cost many times more money."
> .Princess Auto.
> https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/1-000-lb-bolt-on-swivel-trailer-jack/A-p8712317e


I was thinking of one of the 12 volt leveling types. Steve said he had some 12 volt power supplies and that would be a sweet way to adjust it, even better than the rack and pinion and crank handles.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Easier and cheaper but you would have to move the table into the general range before using it as you can only wind up so much of the webbing before the turnbuckle is full. A trailer jack wouldn't have as much limitation nor require as much physical effort but it would cost many times more money.


what turnbuckle???

https://www.princessauto.com/en/search?Dy=1&Nty=1&Ntt=hand+trailer+winch


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I thought you were talking about a ratchet strap.


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Nick if you need precise sizes let me know and I'll go measure what I have. I thought I only had two sizes of bushings but the current picture shows three. The attachment with no bushings added fits the Delta 16.5. One other size was either 44 or 45mm as I recall.



I should be able to measure the chuck on Wednesday...thanks


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

I have a Wadkin MF combination chain chisel mortiser and it's a delight to use. I would recommend it to anyone but you won't be lifting it up onto your work bench. 

B


----------



## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a Delta Mortiser and have used a few times. It is quite heavy and hard to handle. I bought a rockler table for it when they used to make the mortising table. Overall I think a mortiser is a waste of time and money. You can make loose tenon with a router and a jig. You could buy a Festool Domino (quite expensive). You could use the Rockler Beadlock loose tenon system. If you are going to buy a dedicated mortiser then buy a good one like the Powermatic. The newer ones have a piston assist for helping you lift it. The key to any mortiser is to have a sharp chisel. They make several sharpeners that are cone shaped. The other key to success with a mortiser is to insert a dime between the chisel and the stop and set the drill up then remove the dime and seat the chisel to the stop. This gives your drill a chance to clear chips and the square part of the chisel can evacuate chips better and not overheat the drill and chisel.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

So a quick fix for now using the old camper trailer jack I had mentioned. Handle is a bit low but how often do you make major adjustments?


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

A bit late to this, but you might consider using cables, pulleys, and counter weights. A friend did this with his old Craftsman Drill Press. He mounted a pulley on each side of the head and ran steel cables from the table up over them and down to counter weights that roughly equaled the table weight. It was then easy to move the table up or down to any desired position. 

Charley


----------



## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Nickp said:


> I have an old Walker Turner 15" DP and the mortising attachment does not fit over the chuck...
> 
> Thanks for posting the size you have...will have to measure the attachment to see if a different one would work over my chuck.


Nick I think you have to remove the chuck then install the mortising attachment. Then reinstall the chuck. The quill size would have to be measured to know if the mortising attachment will fit. Most drill press chucks have a # 2 or # 3 morse taper. You use a wedge to remove them from the DP like this one. https://www.amazon.com/LFA-Reichel-Hardware-2MT-Drift/dp/B00VRT1A0W?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00VRT1A0W


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

roxanne562001 said:


> Nick I think you have to remove the chuck then install the mortising attachment. Then reinstall the chuck. The quill size would have to be measured to know if the mortising attachment will fit. Most drill press chucks have a # 2 or # 3 morse taper. You use a wedge to remove them from the DP like this one. https://www.amazon.com/LFA-Reichel-Hardware-2MT-Drift/dp/B00VRT1A0W?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00VRT1A0W



Thanks, and yes, you are correct, Roxane...chuck needs to be removed and then reinstalled. Since I only have the WT as a floor model with bigger table, I've almost decided not to go through the bother and eventually pick up a dedicated mortiser...probably the Powermatic for the few extra bucks over the Jet or other model.

I've avoided pulling the trigger on the PM until I get to the point of replacing some of my furniture and then see how much I will need the mortiser. The attachment came with the WT when I bought it so it's worth a try before going for the dedicated mortiser.


----------



## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

CharleyL said:


> A bit late to this, but you might consider using cables, pulleys, and counter weights. A friend did this with his old Craftsman Drill Press. He mounted a pulley on each side of the head and ran steel cables from the table up over them and down to counter weights that roughly equaled the table weight. It was then easy to move the table up or down to any desired position.
> 
> Charley


I did that for my father´s old Craftsman DP, and worked fine; I think I found that in one woodworking magazine. But here are some other examples:








Adding counter weight to drill press table
:wink:


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Nickp said:


> Thanks, and yes, you are correct, Roxane...chuck needs to be removed and then reinstalled. Since I only have the WT as a floor model with bigger table, I've almost decided not to go through the bother and eventually pick up a dedicated mortiser...probably the Powermatic for the few extra bucks over the Jet or other model.
> 
> I've avoided pulling the trigger on the PM until I get to the point of replacing some of my furniture and then see how much I will need the mortiser. The attachment came with the WT when I bought it so it's worth a try before going for the dedicated mortiser.


I've never needed to remove mine. The part of the quill the mortiser attaches to is larger than the chuck. On the smaller sizes you use the bushings which are split in two so they would go in position and then you slide the mortise attachment base over them. I've never needed to use them so I never even bothered looking at them or tried to imagine installing the device using them so I don't know how hard it is to install with them.

I could take a few pictures of it installed if you want and some of the extra bushings. It only takes a few minutes to attach it.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Thanks, and yes, you are correct, Roxane...chuck needs to be removed and then reinstalled. Since I only have the WT as a floor model with bigger table, I've almost decided not to go through the bother and eventually pick up a dedicated mortiser...probably the Powermatic for the few extra bucks over the Jet or other model.
> 
> I've avoided pulling the trigger on the PM until I get to the point of replacing some of my furniture and then see how much I will need the mortiser. The attachment came with the WT when I bought it so it's worth a try before going for the dedicated mortiser.


have you considered an FMT PRO???


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I was thinking of one of the 12 volt leveling types. Steve said he had some 12 volt power supplies and that would be a sweet way to adjust it, even better than the rack and pinion and crank handles.


Cost for the 12V style lift about $100 on sale. Might be worth it at some point and then you could add a trolling motor foot controller to use as a step control. Up for forward and down for reverse.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

timbrframr said:


> I have a Wadkin MF combination chain chisel mortiser and it's a delight to use. I would recommend it to anyone but you won't be lifting it up onto your work bench.
> 
> B


Not without a crane. Man that's one mammoth machine....


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Stick486 said:


> have you considered an FMT PRO???


Not to sound foolish but why, the cost will almost get you the Powermatic 719T?


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Lots of good considerations but for now the DP is workable as far as the rising/lowering the table goes. Not elegant but workable and with what I had on hand. The old camper lift that was sitting around and a few 6" clamps left over from the DC system install.


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've never needed to remove mine. The part of the quill the mortiser attaches to is larger than the chuck. On the smaller sizes you use the bushings which are split in two so they would go in position and then you slide the mortise attachment base over them. I've never needed to use them so I never even bothered looking at them or tried to imagine installing the device using them so I don't know how hard it is to install with them.
> 
> I could take a few pictures of it installed if you want and some of the extra bushings. It only takes a few minutes to attach it.



Thanks, Charles...but not necessary...will not be doing much until I get into a new house...your offer is appreciated...


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> have you considered an FMT PRO???



Thanks, Stick...I did, briefly...I don't think I will be doing enough mortises to justify the cost. If I really get stuck, router and floating tenons will get me there. (...and if the chairs creak, I'll just explain it's part of the vintage charm...) :grin:


----------



## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

I have used mortise and (floating) tenon joinery extensively in my (hobby) shop. The process I use requires a plunge router that accepts guide bushings. The template for the router requires some Melamine (1/4"), a fence, two hangar bolts and two star knobs; see picture. Note that only one of the slots is used for a given project. The length and width of the mortise is determined by the slot geometry while the depth is determined by the plunge router. The jig costs very little to make.

The router shown in the photo is a PC 891. I have subsequently switched to a DW621 because I think it has better dust collection.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

sreilly said:


> Not without a crane. Man that's one mammoth machine....


It is, but an absolute dream to use. Quiet, powerful and effortless. Ya can't go down to Lowes to get parts for it if it breaks though! Fortunately they don't break if you use them properly because they're so well made. I would trade it for a Robinson with the swing-away base that allows you to do passage door lockset mortises, or a Stenner. 

B


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

bfblack said:


> I have used mortise and (floating) tenon joinery extensively in my (hobby) shop. The process I use requires a plunge router that accepts guide bushings. The template for the router requires some Melamine (1/4"), a fence, two hangar bolts and two star knobs; see picture. Note that only one of the slots is used for a given project. The length and width of the mortise is determined by the slot geometry while the depth is determined by the plunge router. The jig costs very little to make.
> 
> The router shown in the photo is a PC 891. I have subsequently switched to a DW621 because I think it has better dust collection.


Nice looking jig. Any idea where the plan or details are found. What are the equations for? Inquiring minds want to know....


----------



## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

sreilly said:


> Hey Roxanne,
> 
> Yes I had looked at that a few times and about the only thing I came across was using a lift like that used on a boat trailer. I just haven't quite figured out how that would be attached securely. I installed a 12 volt lift on our 25" travel trailer that works quite well and that style could likely be adapted. I even have a few 12 volt 10 amp power supplies that are spares for the observatory. Thanks for reminding me.....


I have a very nice Powermatic 1100 with the same lack of the rack and pinion lift, so I researched a bit and I found that Grizzly has a DP with the same size column as mine, and I can therefore use parts for one of their DP's to "add" that feature to mine. Maybe this would work for you. BTW, the parts aren't terribly expensive.


----------



## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

gmedwards said:


> The Shop Fox at Grizzly runs at 3450 rpm. IMO, 3450 rpm is too fast for a mortiser. I have a Jet, which runs at 1725 rpm and works great. I've owned mine for at least 30 years. The Powermatic also runs at 1725 rpm. I don't use my Jet any longer, unless I have a project requiring particularly deep mortises. For most purposes these days, I rely on my CNC, or my Festool Domino.
> 
> Although the price is clearly obscene, the Festool Domino, which uses loose tenons, is the fastest, most reliable and versatile solution for mortise & tenon work. You can use it in place of conventional M&T joints, and can also use them for edge gluing boards. The fit tends to be tighter than biscuits, and the overall results better. The Domino works best for regular casework. For larger work, the Domino XL works better. Just offering a more versatile alternative to a dedicated mortise machine.
> 
> Here's a link to the Domino 500: https://festools-online.com/media/catalog/product/cache/e6b5fb7bfcf8f21ce74679c09f82fe9c/5/7/576693-festool.png


I agree with Gary, the Domino is crazy expensive, but nothing, NOTHING comes close to the ease, speed, flexibility, precision, strength, and quality of the Domino M&T's. I bought a used XL that came with the adapter which allows it take the smaller bits for cutting the entire range of the 500's applications, so that is what I would recommend because it will allow you to do big stuff like gates, beds, tables, and also small stuff like face frames, and small projects. I will say that it is so fun to use that I look for new projects where I can put it to use.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Straightlines said:


> I have a very nice Powermatic 1100 with the same lack of the rack and pinion lift, so I researched a bit and I found that Grizzly has a DP with the same size column as mine, and I can therefore use parts for one of their DP's to "add" that feature to mine. Maybe this would work for you. BTW, the parts aren't terribly expensive.


I hadn't thought of it from that perspective. May be worth the look and see. Thanks.


----------



## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

sreilly said:


> Nice looking jig. Any idea where the plan or details are found. What are the equations for? Inquiring minds want to know....


Each mortise application may require a new template. However, they are easy to make. I have some documentation on how to make templates and would be willing to share this information. Rather than posting this information at the tail end of a mortise machine thread, I would prefer to start a new thread. As an interim step, I would be happy to share this information with you and if you find it useful, then I would start a new thread. Can you private message me?


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

bfblack said:


> Rather than posting this information at the tail end of a mortise machine thread, I would prefer to start a new thread.


Good idea Ben. Posts about jigs are always welcome.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I think I've gone the whole distance, when it comes to making mortise and tenons. I started making mortises with a hammer and chisel, and cutting the tenons to match on the table saw. Then upgraded to the drill press and mortising attachment. Then bought a dedicated mortiser. Then switched to floating tenons and a router for making the mortises, and now I have a Leigh FMT Pro that both cuts the mortises and matching tenons using the same setup. I bought the FMT after trying the Trend version and getting totally frustrated with it. I also tried a friend's panto router and decided against getting one.

Then I was faced with a project that required just over 1,600 mortise and tenon joints, and the need to do them accurately and quickly, or I might still be working on that job. Once the FMT is set up, I can make mortises and perfect fitting matching tenons that are even interchangeable, so full production mode becomes easy to do. The FMT has an adjustment that lets the user fine tune the fit of the mortise to the tenon. This, and the repeatability of the FMT made all the difference in the world, and that one job paid for my FMT several times over. A Domino might have been an easier way, but at the time of my FMT purchase the Domino didn't exist yet, nor did the Mortise Pal. I don't use my FMT very often any more, but won't part with it. It has more than justified it's existence in my shop.

Charley


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Charley the floating tenons definitely have some advantages. I made a screen door a couple of years ago (it's in my uploads) and pieces that long are just about impossible to do on a drill press too even with it's longer capacity but using a router was no problem. It took maybe a half hour to whip up a home made jig.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I picked up an old used WOODTEK 1 HORSE POWER MORTISER FLOOR STANDING unit from a guy that used it to build high end work benches which he sold at wood working shows in Dallas Texas. He bought a new Powermatic floor unit. 

The unit needed to be cleaned and lubed up with a few small parts replaced. It was well used. I want to say I paid around $275 for the mortiser. It works good now but I don't use it much as I have been side tracked with non-wood working projects.


----------



## wyzarddoc (Dec 31, 2006)

I would look at putting a pulley on the housing then use a cable and counter weight. My Delta floor model bends the gear rail outward every time I try to move the table. I have the powermatic desktop/table top mortise machine and it works OK. Just tends to slip on the hold downs so you need to keep checking. Also think about using it to hollow out other things besides mortise and tendon joints. At one of the Albuquerque Woodworkers Assoc. meetings we had a guy demo how to make the Japanese triple interlocking joint and he used his mortise machine to do a lot of the process.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I wanted to make mortises years ago and couldn't afford a mortising machine so I got the mortising attachment for my DP instead. I was using it recently and realized that the DP and attachment has a far greater range than the dedicated mortiser will do. Mortisers only have about a 6" travel I think where the DP could do something over two feet tall or thick. Plus you eliminate the footprint of another machine and the cost is around $120 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0000223B4/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new
> 
> I agree with getting the diamond cones from LV for sharpening them. Even just spinning them by hand will sharpen the edges of the chisel to razor sharp. 2 or 3 seconds in a drill is probably enough.


I'm giving some serious thought to this route as I see that a dedicated machine will cost considerable more, be used on occasion, not be easily portable, and just hard to justify. I have a strong drill press, may need to make a better table top and fence but have less invested. I'd still likely get the better Lee Valley mortise bits and cone sharpener. 

That said looking at some of these attachments leaves me wondering if they would fit. The Jacobs Chuck on this DP is a 633C 33 Taper and Cap 0-1/2. Most of what I see says they fit such and such models DP and the 1966 Clausing isn't listed for some reason. I may need to make a few calls.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I thought about getting a mortising machine off and on for years but am having really good results using a router and template. Granted, I can't make super deep mortises (about 1" is my limit) but I can live with that. Even the benches I've made are holding together pretty well. If I need deeper, I just hog out a bit more depth with a drill and clean up with a chisel. I'm really not a fan of specialized, single purpose machines in my shop. 

By the way, I've been using my CNC machine to make left and right mortise templates for exact alignment. I'm down to less than 1/64" misalignment which makes me very happy.


----------



## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

I bought the bench version Powermatic Mortiser and it is the only worthwhile choice that I found. Am using some pretty cheap bits and getting good results more from an accurate setup and operation than overall tool quality. Learning to sharpen bits is a must and not hard. Like all operations, tool setup and bit condition are the critical factors.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

sreilly said:


> I'm giving some serious thought to this route as I see that a dedicated machine will cost considerable more, be used on occasion, not be easily portable, and just hard to justify. I have a strong drill press, may need to make a better table top and fence but have less invested. I'd still likely get the better Lee Valley mortise bits and cone sharpener.
> 
> That said looking at some of these attachments leaves me wondering if they would fit. The Jacobs Chuck on this DP is a 633C 33 Taper and Cap 0-1/2. Most of what I see says they fit such and such models DP and the 1966 Clausing isn't listed for some reason. I may need to make a few calls.


They fit onto the quill that the chuck spindle fits inside of. I used mine recently and I think the basic jig fits a 66mm quill. I tried measuring the bushings but they appeared to be slightly eccentric when the two halves were butted tight together. The best measurements I could make were 41-42mm, about 44 maybe 45mm, and 51-52mm.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you go with the dp jig you’ll need to mount the hold downs and fence that come with it to a piece of ply you mount on your dp table and clamp it to it. I made a quick one that hasn’t made me happy so I’m thinking maybe one layer of ply that attaches easily to the dp table and another on top of that with the fence. Mind you that’s because my dp table has the X pattern on it. If your Clausing has the parallel grooves then you won’t have a problem.


----------



## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you go with the dp jig you’ll need to mount the hold downs and fence that come with it to a piece of ply you mount on your dp table and clamp it to it. I made a quick one that hasn’t made me happy so I’m thinking maybe one layer of ply that attaches easily to the dp table and another on top of that with the fence. Mind you that’s because my dp table has the X pattern on it. If your Clausing has the parallel grooves then you won’t have a problem.


One aspect of this decision that will make or break your heart is the amount of runout from the chuck/spindle assembly. If you see any significant runout on your DP it will be transferred to the mortise game operation. This and the ability to hold the workpiece well and easily move it along it’s marks is what tipped me over to buying a dedicated mortiser. I’ve adopted an ‘early remorse - later rejoice’ mentality toward tool purchases and am quite glad of it.

I knocked out all the mortise/tenon milling for a small hallway hutch in one evening the first time I used the mortiser on a project - accurately accomplished and very satisfying.

The lack of depth it can cut isn’t an issue with me but is a consideration if you have plans that go that deep (pun intended). Anything larger than 1/2” mortises can be done more than one way as long as you can handle the stock effectively,


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Bstrom said:


> One aspect of this decision that will make or break your heart is the amount of runout from the chuck/spindle assembly. If you see any significant runout on your DP it will be transferred to the mortise game operation. This and the ability to hold the workpiece well and easily move it along it’s marks is what tipped me over to buying a dedicated mortiser. I’ve adopted an ‘early remorse - later rejoice’ mentality toward tool purchases and am quite glad of it.
> 
> I knocked out all the mortise/tenon milling for a small hallway hutch in one evening the first time I used the mortiser on a project - accurately accomplished and very satisfying.
> 
> The lack of depth it can cut isn’t an issue with me but is a consideration if you have plans that go that deep (pun intended). Anything larger than 1/2” mortises can be done more than one way as long as you can handle the stock effectively,



Sorry but not so. The runout is inside the quill between the fit of the tapered spindle into the socket and the bearing. The jig is attached to the quill which simply goes straight up and down, it doesn't revolve. The bit only clears the material inside the chisel out so that it can keep plunging.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> They fit onto the quill that the chuck spindle fits inside of. I used mine recently and I think the basic jig fits a 66mm quill. I tried measuring the bushings but they appeared to be slightly eccentric when the two halves were butted tight together. The best measurements I could make were 41-42mm, about 44 maybe 45mm, and 51-52mm.



Chuck it looks like my chuck measures 49mm. The Shopsmith chuck is 47mm. I'm having a bit of a problem envisioning this setup. I guess I need to take an up close look at these attachments. maybe I can find a decent model and then download the manual for a better idea of what will work. The few sets I saw had to have some cheap bits as they cost in the neighborhood of $150 or so and seemed to come with a fence but then again I really didn't get very detailed information on them.

So now that I know what I'm looking at the quill on the Clausing is 50.50mm and the Shopsmith is 44.50mm.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Well it seems the DELTA Mortising Attachment with Chisel Bits 17-924 is one of few listed. I found this at Home Depot for $99.99 with free shipping. So I figured it would be here by 1/10 and if it doesn't fit I can take it while in Richmond Saturday 1/11 while at Woodcraft. Now to get the sharpener cones. Just in case it actually works.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The 50.5 is really close to what I measured for the largest of the bushings Steve. It just dawned on me that I could try holding the bushing halves in the attachment and then measure across and I might get a better measurement. I'll take some pictures of how it fits on my DP in the morning and post them Steve. I'm wondering if you have to take the depth stop off yours to mount it?

I have the cones from LV. They were $20 for the pair when I bought them. I normally only use the fine one. Even just spinning it between your fingers like a kid's top works pretty good.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Chuck is your set a Delta model? The one I ordered is the 17-924.


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> I thought about getting a mortising machine off and on for years but am having really good results using a router and template. *Granted, I can't make super deep mortises (about 1" is my limit)* but I can live with that. Even the benches I've made are holding together pretty well. If I need deeper, I just hog out a bit more depth with a drill and clean up with a chisel. I'm really not a fan of specialized, single purpose machines in my shop.
> 
> By the way, I've been using my CNC machine to make left and right mortise templates for exact alignment. I'm down to less than 1/64" misalignment which makes me very happy.



Phil, I know compression bits are available quite long...have you considered using one...? just a little more work to clear the sawdust...:smile:


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks, nick. Yes, I've seen the longer bits and I even have a fairly long 1/4" round for carving but haven't really needed a mortise deeper than 3/4". I will cut 4 deeper mortises for the rails in the bed frame I'm starting on but will probably use a router/template to start and finish them by hand.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

sreilly said:


> Chuck is your set a Delta model? The one I ordered is the 17-924.


Yes it's a Delta but not sure of the model number yet and haven't gone outside yet. Good chance that's the one.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

PhilBa said:


> Thanks, nick. Yes, I've seen the longer bits and I even have a fairly long 1/4" round for carving but haven't really needed a mortise deeper than 3/4". I will cut 4 deeper mortises for the rails in the bed frame I'm starting on but will probably use a router/template to start and finish them by hand.


I made a screen door for my porch and needed deep mortises for it that the dp attachment couldn't do. I started out with a spiral that did 1 1/2" then switched to a 2 1/2" straight bit. It worked but I had to go back and forth a couple of times to get to full depth and I could feel it working against the chips in the hole. I should have drilled some holes by hand to remove some of the waste first and it would have made it easier but it still got the job done and the door worked out great using long floating tenons instead of mortise and tenon.

The dp attachment or a dedicated mortiser are really good for the average M & T job because they are so fast to set up and do but if you are mortising the ends of pieces as in a door frame then the router with a jig will work better.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry for the delay Steve. Snow plowing took precedence to start with, then I couldn't get photos to upload from camera, then I couldn't get them to email from phone, but finally here it is. 
One photo is of the kit. Four chisels and bits from 1/4 to 1/2", the fence and hold downs, and two of the three bushings. I did try the one set in the chisel holder and it appears to be 50.5 mm according to what you said fits your Clausing. Another photo shows me pointing to the part of the quill that the chisel holder attaches to. If you recall I said I think there's a possibility that your depth stop may be attached to that part on your press and may need to be removed to mount this. I don't think that's a big deal based on the photo. It boils down to how much you will be using it. If it's often (making lots of furniture) it will be a pain in the butt, if occasionally it will be a minor inconvenience that you will be prepared to put up with for the cost/space savings. The last picture is with the jig attached and extended a bit.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Looks like it should do just fine. Due here next Wednesday and the cone sharpeners from Lee Valley the next day if not sooner.


----------



## Mark Norman (Jan 5, 2020)

I have a Powermatic PM701. I went with it mostly because it had a slightly more powerful motor than the rest. It is a nice machine that will save you a lot of work, after you get the chisels and set up right.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

sreilly said:


> Looks like it should do just fine. Due here next Wednesday and the cone sharpeners from Lee Valley the next day if not sooner.


Be very careful with the settup. A brand new chisel can be ruined in minutes if the clearance isn't set properly. 

Good luck, they're a huge time saver!

B


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

timbrframr said:


> Be very careful with the settup. A brand new chisel can be ruined in minutes if the clearance isn't set properly.
> 
> Good luck, they're a huge time saver!
> 
> B


I will ask questions first before using the setup. I've jumped the gun before only for it to bite me. Not this time hopefully. Not when there's all the advice found here.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The main thing is to get the clearance between the drill bit and the chisel right. Here's a short video on how to set them. I read once that if you hear squealing and the chisel turns blue then go to a mirror to find the cause.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Got it Chuck. Set is due by UPS today so we'll see what we have shortly. It's date nite so may not play with it till tomorrow. Forgot the sharpeners aren't due til another few days. Lee Valley says they shipped but UPS has no record yet. May be a few more days yet.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Well the first attempt at setup hit a snag. I figured I would have to remove the depth stop gauge on the DP and so it is but the only way to get it off the DP is to remove the chuck. The manual says to simply use the check key and insert the end into the collar above the chuck. This is threaded and it appears that if you hold the chuck in your right hand and hit the chuck key with the palm of you left it should loosen the collar and allow you to continue turning it clockwise will the chuck drops out. 

That would be great if indeed after all these years it would actually still work. It makes maybe two turns and then a dead hard stop. I tried reversing and repeating but same result. So I took two large sets of channel locks and used clothes to keep from marring the chuck and collar but only manged to get it even tighter. It took a bit of work to loosen the collar back off. So I backed it completely back and generously sprayed Liquid Wrench into both parts. Several minutes no difference so it will sit overnight and hope for better results in the morning. 

This seems to be typical for me, nothing comes easy. I should be use to it but..........Not wanting to take any chances with damaging the bearing on the spindel I just can't bring myself to trying to knock it off using a hammer and block as I've seen in videos. Maybe someone else's machine but not mine. Hopefully the LW will do its work and give me better results. Open to suggestions........


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Some chucks have a screw holding them too. I've had one or two drills that did. I can't remember if they were left or right hand thread or if they were all the same either. Anyway open the chuck all the way and shine a light in there and see if that's the reason.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Well this certainly has been a journey so far. The chuck is off and there was no screw just a very stubborn threaded chuck. There is a ring above the chuck that screws onto the spindle that was evidently slightly rusted on. The Liquid wrench seems to have done 99% of the work with a final tape to loosen things further. Interestingly I had to remove two of the installed ring sets and use the smallest adapter for the proper fit. 

The next issue came with the alignment rod. It really is way too tight. The idea is to install in the chuck and run it into the bit hole in the jig so the bit is aligned to the chuck and jig. I think I''' need to run some fine sandpaper over it otherwise it will not be able to be removed easily, might even need some heavy persuasion. Right out of the box there was a light coating of some kind of dirt or light rusting. Wiping everything down with a terry cloth rag seem to remove this coating. Was there still enough of some coating to cause the alignment pin to be too tight?

So at this point the jig is attached to the DP but I haven't fooled with the fence just yet. I need to wait for the cone sharpeners to test the bits but I already expect that sharpening is needed and will help some but if all proves well with the jig they'll likely be replaced with better quality chisel bits.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

What brand are the chisels? Sorry if you said already, but the Lee Valley cones are for Japaneese pattern chisels which are different than some others. Chisel/bit gap or clearance is critical and needs to be played with a bit. I use the "dime trick" (with a Canadian dime of course!) as a starting point but I always check after the first hole to be safe.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

These are the ones that came with the jig so Delta I would presume. These are the ones coming for the Delta chisels.

https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/files-and-hones/41702-conical-sharpeners-for-economy-chisels-and-bits-for-mortisers-and-drill-press-mortising-attachments


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

sreilly said:


> These are the ones that came with the jig so Delta I would presume. These are the ones coming for the Delta chisels.
> 
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/sharpening/files-and-hones/41702-conical-sharpeners-for-economy-chisels-and-bits-for-mortisers-and-drill-press-mortising-attachments


If I recall correctly, you should be good. The Lee valley chisels are very nice for the money too.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I use the cones on the chisels that came with mine Steve and they work just dandy. I accidentally dropped the tip of a chisel on a finger tip taking it off the other day and bled instantly. As long as you don'y need the depth stop back on then assembly/disassembly should be a snap in the future. Since you don't have a depth stop to work with while it's on just measure and put a pencil mark on the side of the chisel.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

​


Cherryville Chuck said:


> I use the cones on the chisels that came with mine Steve and they work just dandy. I accidentally dropped the tip of a chisel on a finger tip taking it off the other day and bled instantly. As long as you don'y need the depth stop back on then assembly/disassembly should be a snap in the future. Since you don't have a depth stop to work with while it's on just measure and put a pencil mark on the side of the chisel.


My Delta 17-924 Type 2 didn't come with any sharpeners and I don't see any mention in the manual about sharpening the chisels. A quick search of Delta Machinery and no listing for sharpeners at all. Google returned nothing as well for Delta. The Lee Valley ones should be fine.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

sreilly said:


> ​
> My Delta 17-924 Type 2 didn't come with any sharpeners and I don't see any mention in the manual about sharpening the chisels. A quick search of Delta Machinery and no listing for sharpeners at all. Google returned nothing as well for Delta. The Lee Valley ones should be fine.


I believe they use the same Japanese pattern so you should be good. I have a whole mix so have a couple of different sharpening setups. Setting everything up in a lathe makes things very easy.

My machine uses a collet system so everything is aligned perfectly but I expect with the three jaw in the drill press you'll want to double check alignment. The drill shouldn't hit the inside of the chisel spinning freely.

God luck!


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

So far I'm not impressed with this product but maybe I'm not as informed as I should be. The manual leaves little to be desired and a good deal of information is missing and Delta Support doesn't seem to have it either. 1st off they seemed surprised that the chisels needed sharpening before using and 2nd is lack of any mention of this. Nor is any information on recommended speed setting (RPM) for this setup.

At this point I have the DP set for 1,000 RPM and sharpened the 1/2" chisel that I was testing and have to almost stand on it to get any cutting from the chisel and this is on a fir 2x4. From what I have found the rpm should be between 1,000 and 1,500. I'd hate to see what it would have been like with maple or oak. working better tomorrow I'll look at taking it back to Home Depot and have another look at the bench top Rikon 34-260 mortise machine. 

The biggest plus for the Rikon is the X/Y table that makes it really easy and fast to cut and move the piece. I'll likely get it at Woodcraft in Richmond, Va, about an hour away, and with permission I'll assemble and test it on site if possible. They don't have a mortiser in the classroom shop.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

That's a bummer. So after you sharpened it, it was still very hard to drive into the wood? Is your bit protruding a little from the bottom of the chisel? How did you sharpen it? They do take a lot of force still. My industrial mortiser has a loooong handle to help drive the bit down.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It does take a bit of force Steve. You`re only drilling the center out and shearing the sides off. The sides of that chisel should feel as sharp as one of your regular chisels.


----------



## timbrframr (Nov 2, 2019)

sreilly said:


> So far I'm not impressed with this product but maybe I'm not as informed as I should be. The manual leaves little to be desired and a good deal of information is missing and Delta Support doesn't seem to have it either. 1st off they seemed surprised that the chisels needed sharpening before using and 2nd is lack of any mention of this. Nor is any information on recommended speed setting (RPM) for this setup.
> 
> At this point I have the DP set for 1,000 RPM and sharpened the 1/2" chisel that I was testing and have to almost stand on it to get any cutting from the chisel and this is on a fir 2x4. From what I have found the rpm should be between 1,000 and 1,500. I'd hate to see what it would have been like with maple or oak. working better tomorrow I'll look at taking it back to Home Depot and have another look at the bench top Rikon 34-260 mortise machine.
> 
> The biggest plus for the Rikon is the X/Y table that makes it really easy and fast to cut and move the piece. I'll likely get it at Woodcraft in Richmond, Va, about an hour away, and with permission I'll assemble and test it on site if possible. They don't have a mortiser in the classroom shop.


Are you sure you honed right to the very edge? A little trick is to put some red sharpie on the edge and hone/sharpen till it's all gone, this way you guarantee you've gotten right to the edge.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

timbrframr said:


> That's a bummer. So after you sharpened it, it was still very hard to drive into the wood? Is your bit protruding a little from the bottom of the chisel? How did you sharpen it? They do take a lot of force still. My industrial mortiser has a loooong handle to help drive the bit down.


I used a dime for spacing the chisel in the holder, lowered the high side of the bit to be even with the high side of the chisel, then tightened the chuck, removed the dime, loosened the chisel and pushed up flushed then tightened the chisel.

As for sharpening I didn't mark the chisel but am sure it had a good cut. I had a good even burr all the way around that I needed to remove.


----------



## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

sreilly said:


> The biggest plus for the Rikon is the X/Y table that makes it really easy and fast to cut and move the piece. I'll likely get it at Woodcraft in Richmond, Va, about an hour away, and with permission I'll assemble and test it on site if possible. They don't have a mortiser in the classroom shop.


I bought a $50 XY table off eBay to use primarily with my radial drill press, which is very handy. My Powermatic doesn't have that feature, as I too wondered about regarding the Rikon, but the overall reviews of the Powermatic determined my choice. The Rikon has some issues (don't remember exactly) like all tools but the Powermatic has been pretty foolproof to operate and is very robust, which is the kind of tools I need as a bumbling beginner. 

I wish the Rikon table was available for the Powermatic...c'est la vie.

Ditto on the bits - I'm using the cheapest bit around and once sharpened are simply dangerous, but cut just fine.


----------



## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Bstrom said:


> I bought a $50 XY table off eBay to use primarily with my radial drill press, which is very handy. My Powermatic doesn't have that feature, as I too wondered about regarding the Rikon, but the overall reviews of the Powermatic determined my choice. The Rikon has some issues (don't remember exactly) like all tools but the Powermatic has been pretty foolproof to operate and is very robust, which is the kind of tools I need as a bumbling beginner.
> 
> I wish the Rikon table was available for the Powermatic...c'est la vie.
> 
> Ditto on the bits - I'm using the cheapest bit around and once sharpened are simply dangerous, but cut just fine.


So I have to ask, with the properly sharpened chisel bits, how well does this unit cut the mortise? Some videos make it look like it almost effortless chopping one after the other in Walnut or other apparent hardwood. My testing on the DP attachment was using poplar and I still had to exert some major downward force. Of course the handle on the mortise machine is longer giving it better leverage that a 6-7" spoke on the DP wheel so there's that consideration but is it really a clean reasonably easy cut to make? Another major consideration could be that height of the unit. 

My 15" DP allows me to move the table up/down but the head is at a fixed height so the handle is at a particular height as well which can affect the amount of effort to use (leverage). So many things to consider and make a difference.......


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mine requires a fair amount of force too Steve but for something I only use occasionally it's something I accept as a necessary shortcoming.


----------

