# Replicating door and window casing



## Yooper H (Jan 31, 2019)

Hi all,

I have some trim that I want to replicate at our house, but I'm not quite sure how to do it. I attached an image of the profile - it looks like the double fillet and cove bit from MLCS (I can't link to it because this is my first post), but it's not going to work with the guide on the bottom of the bit, since there's no edge I'll be running against. Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

Build it up using 3 pieces. Cut the 2 side pieces with the cone cutter and stick them on top of the flai piece which is cut to your trims width.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

welcome N/A..
that cut is called a plough or groove and is done on a router table or w/ your material trapped between two opposing edge guides on your router w/ a bearing-less bit....
you could also do it w/ a top bearing bit and a straight edge guide...
VOE says to leave/stay away from MCLS bits... 
there are many companies that have far superior products that are a much better value..
Freud..
Whiteside..
CMT..
*Radius Cove & Bead Groove Bit*
*Plunge Roundover Bit*

*search criteria...*
Radius Cove & Bead Groove Bit
Plunge Bead Groove Bit
Plunge Roundover Bit


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

Here is what I mean.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

mimac said:


> Here is what I mean.



+1...this would be my choice...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> +1...this would be my choice...


me too...


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## Yooper H (Jan 31, 2019)

Oooo, I hadn't thought about doing it that way. That looks a lot easier than what I was thinking, thanks!

And thanks for the heads-up about MCLS. I somehow got on their mailing list, so I had a catalog and saw the shape I was looking for. I haven't looked any further than that yet.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Good question and BTW, welcome to the fun. 

Definitely the 3 piece approach. A couple of strips run through the bit, glued to a flat piece milled to the correct thickness. Easy and inexpensive. Glue and pin nailer and one roundover router bit will do it, especially in a table. Pin nailer to hold the pieces in place while the glue dries. Use waterproof glue if the piece goes on the exterior.

If you have a table saw, rout the edge of wider stock, then cut the trim piece off the edge. Repeat. 

If you don't have a pin nailer or compressor yet, you have a perfect excuse. And the compressor will work for a finish nailer as well. Size of the bit is determined by the thickness you need.

That looks like the type of bit you'd use on the edge of a table.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Totally not what you're asking, Yooper, but not a moulding I've ever seen around here; Was ita really old installation?
In any case, I'd be going with Nick's suggestion (3 pieces). If I needed a lot of it, I'd happily pay a mill-work shop to grind custom knives, and have _them_ run the mouldings.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

@Yooper H

The reasons for favoring the 3-piece approach are many...

1. you would otherwise have to deal with hogging out the center to some appropriate amount...
2 if you did find the exact bit, once hogged out you would have to trap the piece inside the bit and run the other direction on the table because it's an inside profile...very dangerous...
3. you would still have to deal with cutting the bottom flat with a router bit, or other suitable cutter, to be exact to the base of the profile on both sides...

For the three piece...
1. you can cut the profiles with the bearing bit without a problem
2. the flat piece would not require much work
3. glue-up would be a snap
4. you would not likely see the lines very much (or at least that they would bother you)
5. if you cut the three pieces from the same timber you will see the separation even less

I'm sure others can chime in with other advantages...

Best success in your project...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Totally not what you're asking, Yooper, but not a moulding I've ever seen around here; Was ita really old installation?
> In any case, I'd be going with Nick's suggestion (3 pieces). If I needed a lot of it, I'd happily pay a mill-work shop to grind custom knives, and have _them_ run the mouldings.


That was Brian's recommendation...I seconded it, Stick thirded it...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> A couple of strips run through a roundover bit,


that profile isn't roundover...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> that profile isn't roundover...


Noted and corrected. Can't recall the name of that bit, but it's pretty common. I've seen it often among the Freud bits.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Noted and corrected. Can't recall the name of that bit, but it's pretty common. I've seen it often among the Freud bits.


cove..


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## Yooper H (Jan 31, 2019)

DaninVan said:


> Totally not what you're asking, Yooper, but not a moulding I've ever seen around here; Was ita really old installation?
> In any case, I'd be going with Nick's suggestion (3 pieces). If I needed a lot of it, I'd happily pay a mill-work shop to grind custom knives, and have _them_ run the mouldings.


Yeah, it's around 1920, from what I can tell. A few places in the house don't have the original molding anymore, so I'm hoping to restore it. For some reason, when they remodeled the kitchen in the 60s (including some iffy homemade cabinets), they put on flat 3" molding instead of the beautiful originals.

I'll give this a shot and see how it turns out. Thanks all, for your help!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Found the profile in the Sommerfeld catalog. Called a cove and fillet bit. Available in many sizes so you have to measure and match size. Many different makers. Can't go wrong with Freud.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you cut a very small rabbet in the side pieces for the center flat piece to fit into, say only 1/16" deep, the joint will be almost invisible. It's more work but it will improve the look. When it's going to be anywhere near eye level it may be worth it. If it's well above or below eye level then rarely necessary.


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Nick


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Yooper H said:


> Oooo, I hadn't thought about doing it that way. That looks a lot easier than what I was thinking, thanks!
> 
> And thanks for the heads-up about MCLS. I somehow got on their mailing list, so I had a catalog and saw the shape I was looking for. I haven't looked any further than that yet.



Don't give up on MLCS I have a house built in 1831 and was able to use one of their bits to almost identically reproduce some door molding. It was so close that you have to study the new stuff to see any difference. I have since used the same bit to produce at least a hundred linear feet of the profile and it's still going strong. They may not be the best brand in the world but I can tell you from experience that they will do everything an average person would require. When a bit gets dull you'll know it but you can expect years worth of work under normal(not production) use.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"When a bit gets dull you'll know it ..."
-Art
And there's always those diamond honing cards to restore that razor edge.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

Quite a coincidence. I've also been looking for a bit that will cut a cove. I've machined the pieces to the size I need. The picture may explain. The overall width is 1 3/4 . Thickness is 17/32. The top angles are 7/16 across .The bottom are 5/16. The cove goes between the 5/16 angles. I've looked everywhere I can think of and see only one. A Whiteside cove bit but I don't think they're in Canada. I was hoping to find one a little less expensive for what might be a minimal use bit. I'm not averse driving to the U.S. side of the Falls about an hour away. I have a U.S. credit card so it's no loss on the exchange. Any ideas ?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Thomas; is this sort of what you need?
Bird's-Mouth Joinery Bits™ - Lee Valley Tools
Too bad this one has a bearing:
Cove Raised Panel Bits - Lee Valley Tools


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Thomas; is this sort of what you need?
> Bird's-Mouth Joinery Bits™ - Lee Valley Tools
> Too bad this one has a bearing:
> Cove Raised Panel Bits - Lee Valley Tools


The second one, the rounded cove is exactly what I need but minus the bearing. I saw the right one on Amazon by Whiteside for $116. Cdn. but I don't want to auction the furniture for it. If I knew I could get one in the Falls, U.S. side, I'd fetch it. 
It would be a nice drive if the price was right and the roads were clear. Slightly less than an hour each way. I love driving but at this time of year that area could be snow covered. I think there's even a Rockwell or H.F. in that location. Is H.F. about on a par with Busy Bee ?


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

thomas1389 said:


> The second one, the rounded cove is exactly what I need but minus the bearing. I saw the right one on Amazon by Whiteside for $116. Cdn. but I don't want to auction the furniture for it. If I knew I could get one in the Falls, U.S. side, I'd fetch it.
> It would be a nice drive if the price was right and the roads were clear. Slightly less than an hour each way. I love driving but at this time of year that area could be snow covered. I think there's even a Rockwell or H.F. in that location. Is H.F. about on a par with Busy Bee ?



...have you considered this...? Don't forget to take the riving knife off... The second video is a little more elaborate...


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

The table saw is the way to go. A little trial and error to get the size right and you're off to the races. Use a curved cabinet scraper to clean the cut up.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> ...have you considered this...? Don't forget to take the riving knife off... The second video is a little more elaborate...


cut the angles after you cove and that will take care of any edge splintering....


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

I've decided to give it a try on the table saw. I might have to use a smaller blade to get the small cove size I'm after. I have an eight inch blade that I'll try first. The entire cove width will only be 1 3/8" . I'm thinking out loud here but shouldn't I get a shallower cove with a larger blade and the piece run through at a lesser angle to the blade ? Unfortunately I've already machined the angles so I'll have to be rather precise in coving. All said and done, I now have to wait for a warmer day to stay in the garage long enough to attempt this. It's a very nice day today but I'm family occupied so that squelches that. If too cold I'll get on with other bits of the project.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Running it through at a 90* angle gives a round profile. The steeper the angle, the more parabolic shaped the curve gets. You might want to use a circ saw blade. At 90* you have to take really small bites. Since the back is not likely to be seen I would screw that piece to a plywood strip or other board and then attach pieces of the same material on either side of it. That will allow you to stabilize it and keep your fingers farther away from the blade.

If you think you might do a lot of this you may want to see about getting this blade: https://www.amazon.ca/CMT-235-006-0...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000P4JP66 It's part of a set designed by Lonnie Byrd to make crown moldings. The set comes up on ebay sort of regularly and you can get it there for the amazon price on this blade or even less. Like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/CMT-Lonnie...e:g:m-AAAOSwke9aEJR2:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true The router bits are standard profiles except they are upside down from the standard bits.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

thomas1389 said:


> I've decided to give it a try on the table saw. I might have to use a smaller blade to get the small cove size I'm after. I have an eight inch blade that I'll try first. The entire cove width will only be 1 3/8" . I'm thinking out loud here but shouldn't I get a shallower cove with a larger blade and the piece run through at a lesser angle to the blade ? Unfortunately I've already machined the angles so I'll have to be rather precise in coving. All said and done, I now have to wait for a warmer day to stay in the garage long enough to attempt this. It's a very nice day today but I'm family occupied so that squelches that. If too cold I'll get on with other bits of the project.


The width of the cove is determined by the angle of attack...a larger blade will allow for a shallower angle of entry. So yes, you'll get a shallower cut with a wider blade. At 1 3/8, it might not make a difference but use what you are most comfortable with.

There are table saw cove formulae available on the net that will give you a better answer...try them out...

http://www.thewoodpecker.net/cove/cove.htm

Good luck and go slow. Remember, two fences and make sure they don't bind the piece...make sure you use pads to push the wood through...very light passes...


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