# rouge jig



## Artylarry (Feb 6, 2015)

Hi all, I picked upi this jig for £12, and I hope to use it to cut 'dog n 'bone joints in oak worktops. 
I am a novice and have just ordered my first router and will practice first, can anyone advise how top set the bolts in order to cut these accurately. 
Also I have had these cutters in the shed for ages, if anyone can enlighten me as to how they would be used id be grateful, they are marked 15 - 35mm

many thanks
Keven


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Welcome, Keven...the cutters are actually "forstner bits" and are intended to drill clean holes in wood using a drill press or hand-held drill.

They are NOT intended to be used with a router or any other high RPM device. (not saying you might...just saying)

Enjoy the forum...lots of knowledge here and I'm sure someone will come along and give some advice on your template...

Best, Nick


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Keven

You may be asking the first half of your question in the wrong place. Worktop jigs, like this:








are a European thing (because we predominently use post-formed laminated chipboard worktops) and they aren't really used in North America. The jig you show isn't really right for the "dog bones" I pointed you to elsewhere - see the picture above for the type of jig I use (the "mushroom" cutouts are the dog bone template). For the benefit of anyone interested, these are "dog bones" or worktop connector bolts as used in Europe:








You can still use your Forstner bits to drill the holes and then rout a straight groove from the circular holes to the edges by fixing a 2 x 1in softwood batten to the underside of the oak worktop (to act as a guide) and routing an appropriate size groove. I showed you an example of what the finished result should look like in an earlier response

Tip - cut your mason's mitres first, turn the tops upside down and set-out in pencil across the joints so that everything lines up

Regards

Phil


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

That Jig IS used in U.S.


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## Artylarry (Feb 6, 2015)

Ok, thanks all. 
So Phil do you mean don't use the jig at all? and drill hole with forstner bit and then route T junction to take connector bolts. or use the straight of jig first? I will not need the male female joints as using square edge oak and just need to join butt joints. 
I did think the straight cut (700mm) would be good template for any groove or straight cuts I need for other projects?

And I did think they were router bits for some reason... :X


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

woodie26 said:


> That Jig IS used in U.S.


Hi Larry

I have been told on several occasions in the past on US forums (including by a member here) that they weren't commonly used in the US. They do seem to be very rarely mentioned on American forums (maybe because they require a plunge router?) whilst on our side of the pond almost every carpenter I know owns his own jig and an appropriately large plunge router, so they are a common source of queries here since they appeared about 25 to 30 years ago. Sorry for any confusion. BTW what size cutter and guide bushes do your jigs use?

Hi Keven



Artylarry said:


> So Phil do you mean don't use the jig at all? and drill hole with forstner bit and then route T junction to take connector bolts. or use the straight of jig first? I will not need the male female joints as using square edge oak and just need to join butt joints.


Make your square edged end cut first, restrict your cut to a couple of millimetres, no more, and make the cut in depth increments of 6 to 8mm so you don't bog the cutter down. Then flip the tops over and mark -ou for your joiners recesses. The jig you show has a peculiar triangle-shaped cut-out for the dog bones which I think will put a lot of strain on the rounded steel "washers" at the ends of the dog bones whic is why I'm suggesting that you don't use it. "Dog bones" are normally popped into circular cut-outs and as you have found a set of Forstners I'm suggesting that you use them instead in your *drill* to bore out the circular recesses then join-up the recesses by routing straight grooves to the edges of the worktop parts instead of using the router and jig to make those odd-shaped recesses. BTW You are right not to use the mason's mitre joint on square edged worktops - overkill and won't look as good IMHO

Regards

Phil


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## Rogerdodge (Apr 24, 2014)

I agree with Phil, ( not that I am any kind of expert mind you ) because it makes good use of the tools you have to do the job.
I am wondering whether you could maybe borrow a biscuit jointer to help keep your joints aligned.

Rog


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Phil P said:


> Hi Larry
> 
> I have been told on several occasions in the past on US forums (including by a member here) that they weren't commonly used in the US.
> 
> ...


I can't speak for the US Phil but I use them when I have to join 2 pieces here in Canada. Lee Valley sells them. I didn't know there was a jig for them. I just mark the locations and drill the holes for the flanges. The channel between I do with whatever hand tools I'm in the mood to use. I can't remember routing any.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I can't speak for the US Phil but I use them when I have to join 2 pieces here in Canada. Lee Valley sells them. I didn't know there was a jig for them. I just mark the locations and drill the holes for the flanges. The channel between I do with whatever hand tools I'm in the mood to use. I can't remember routing any.


those are commonly used here for joining turns in counter tops in conjunction/ splines or biscuits...
never seen one used in a panel...


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

+1 stick. I have seen them used underside to hold together 45 degree corners in kitchen countertops and offices.

~~ Ray


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## Artylarry (Feb 6, 2015)

Phil: So a bit of improvisation is the key. no problems, I think if I measure the distance of connector bolt shaft correct i can route the straight into the forstner hole, as long as I match the right diameter to connector end? bits are 15,20,25,30,35mm. 
I have read conflicting ideas as to the depth of cut, as tops will be 40mm oak, shall I try to center them, say 22 mm down or keep them shallow? also without jig I need to work out the width of cut for channel.
Rodger: Im not sure if I can borrow a biscuit joiner, however I have a Hitachi M12ve arriving tomorrow and thought about buying a biscuit bit for that to check vertical movement?


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Here's a video I found showing a similar jig in use, very clever.

http://www.ruclip.com/video/RD-ioF7GIAY/trend-joining-kitchen-worktops-part-2.html

Not sure that would work here in the US as our normal post-formed countertop has a rolled anti-drip edge and an integral backsplash. Discounting the backsplash, I wonder if you could compensate by putting a shim between the bottom of the template and the countertop but I'm having a hard time visualizing the finished joint - I'm thinking that points would match, but wondering if anyone has used this jig on a countertop with the rolled edge. The big problem though is the integral backsplash.

As far as the connector bolts, it's been a while, but I recall a metal template that located a large blind flat-bottomed hole in the bottom of the countertop and smaller holes (maybe around 1/4" diameter?) drilled in the mating face and parallel to the surface. The connectors using the routed recess certainly look a lot easier to assemble.

Tom


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## Steve B. (Mar 4, 2012)

Phil-
Thanks for the explanation on the "dog bone" thing. I was going to ask, but didn't know if it was something I should be familiar with. My only contact with the UK lately is Downton Abbey and they don't speak of woodworking too often.

Steve B. from California


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> those are commonly used here for joining turns in counter tops in conjunction/ splines or biscuits...
> never seen one used in a panel...


We use them in some bar-fitting and shop fitting applications, Stick. Normally only used to pull-up two finished (e.g. polished or laminated) components where it would be otherwise impossible to cramp the pieces together on site without the risk of damaging them. Only ever used to pull-up the last 5mm or so after we've expended a bit of "sweat equity" to move things into approximate position (or sometimes a lot - I have known bar sections to weigh-in at 500kg/half a ton or more, the biggest one I've ever installed took 16 guys to get the centre section off the truck and up the stairs)



Artylarry said:


> I have read conflicting ideas as to the depth of cut, as tops will be 40mm oak, shall I try to center them, say 22 mm down or keep them shallow? also without jig I need to work out the width of cut for channel.


I'd just make them the minimum depth you need to have to flush the dog bone connectors to the underside of the top, otherwise it will make tightening-up the bolts more awkward (reduced "swing" on the wrench), especially as that's the bit you've got to do lying on your back from the underside! The groove to take the spindle just needs to be wide enough for the spindle itself (and they're only 5 or 6mm diameter) - so as you are using something like a 1/2in (12.7mm) cutter in any case I'd just go with that



tomp913 said:


> Here's a video I found showing a similar jig in use, very clever.
> 
> Not sure that would work here in the US as our normal post-formed countertop has a rolled anti-drip edge and an integral back splash.


That's similar to the jigs I use (I actually need two - one for standard width tops up to 700mm wide, one for breakfast bars up to 1000mm - they have a double post-formed edge). Over here post-formed kitchen worktops don't have the upstands formed in one piece - when we fit them they are installed after the worktops with a silicone joint. Tiled or laminate back splashes (running up to the underside of the upper cabinets) are much more popular with glass back splashes (painted on the back) being specified for some jobs these days

Overall the post-formed laminates probably account for 60 to 70% of the domestic market and we use them quite a bit in back of house installations because they are (relatively) so cheap to buy and quick and cheap to install - with the right tools. 40 years ago we had the post-formed tops, but no jigs and no Festool saws, so doing a mason's mitre joint in a worktop was a *lot* more work



Steve B. said:


> My only contact with the UK lately is Downton Abbey and they don't speak of woodworking too often.


LOL Yes, I think that Julian Fellowes has a lot to answer for! Maybe in the next series they'll manage to work in a joiner or two......

Regards

Phil


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Phil; are you saying that they've eliminated that tight, post-formed, up-bend atthe intersection of the ctrtop and the backsplash? 
That's the main selling point of the post-formed backslash! 
Here, whatever the customer wants he/she gets...every counter-top is 'custom'.
The counter-top plant does it all. 
Laminate Product Information - Columbia Countertops


Having said that, the majority of new tops are stone or similar.


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