# home built surfacing jig



## Cayuga Kid (Sep 22, 2008)

Happy New Year fellow woodworkers. I have glued up 4 end grain cutting boards ( there was a 5th one ), the surfaces are not flat on either side, and I want to make a jig so I can surface both faces with a router. The 5th piece my first one I tried in a planer it broke a big chunk out of it, Will not try that again. I tried doing a search surfacing jigs no luck. Can any one help me with a jig for this application. Thank You Michael


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Skis might be your answer. There have been several recent threads on here about the use of skis and surfacing of boards. I just finished my jig last weekend and I'm fine tuning it a bit. It works pretty well but I need to do a better job on the work-piece hold-downs. One of my practice pieces started to lift while I was experimenting (playing) and that sorta ruined things. 

Another option would be to get two long, straight boards (or even aluminum channel, square tube, etc). These need to be taller than the starting thickness of your material. Secure these to the bench with your material between. Should sorta remind you of railroad tracks. Your router and a flat bottom bit are mounted to a board, say 1/2" plywood which you then slide across the tops of the rails. The bit depth is set to nibble things away a little at a time. 

With some threaded rod and a little fiddling around you could set up the two rails to pinch the workpiece and do the holding. The rails could then be clamped down at their ends. If you go with aluminum square tubing or other metal, face it with some sacrificial wood so the bit can exit the workpiece and NOT hit the metal of the tubes. That would be VERY VERY BAD!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This shot clearly shows the set-up for planing using ski mounted router.Any size can be surfaced like this, consistent with the length of skis, size of bench top and of course your arm span!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Cayuga Kid said:


> Happy New Year fellow woodworkers. I have glued up 4 end grain cutting boards ( there was a 5th one ), the surfaces are not flat on either side, and I want to make a jig so I can surface both faces with a router. The 5th piece my first one I tried in a planer it broke a big chunk out of it, Will not try that again. I tried doing a search surfacing jigs no luck. Can any one help me with a jig for this application. Thank You Michael


You can not use a planer for that anyway. If you wanted to use a power tool other than harrysin's technique you need to use a drum sander.

A drum sander will not tear out and actually flattens the work.

A planer does not flatten and will not take out cupping or hills and valleys, it just makes the piece thinner.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

If you want to keep it simple... just use a hand plane like the old timers used to do.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That could be tough using a hand plane. The cutting boards may be made up of differnt species woods end grains, the grains possibly going in different directions, with small squares of each right next to each other.

I could never do it. Never used the hand planes long enough to get that proficient or collect the right type plane for every job.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I always heard that if you put your router on skis, everything sort of went downhill from there. 

Personally, I'd use (with care) a belt sander for this task, starting with a moderately-aggressive grit.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ralph

I can't think of anything faster to screw up some nice stock than use a belt on it to get it flat.... 

The ski jig will do it just fine, it just has a very small learning curve to it..


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Ralph Barker said:


> I always heard that if you put your router on skis, everything sort of went downhill from there.
> 
> Personally, I'd use (with care) a belt sander for this task, starting with a moderately-aggressive grit.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I have had friends swear by the belt sanders with the frame for flattening, I never use it. I believe DeWalt sells one.

Free hand a belt sander is not going to get anything flat, maybe smooth, but not flat.

If I had no machines for surfacing, smoothing and flattening I probably would use a ski jig to do it.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

nickao65 said:


> A drum sander will not tear out and actually flattens the work.


Second best way to do it. Router on skis is the best way.



> A planer does not flatten and will not take out cupping or hills and valleys, it just makes the piece thinner.


Huh? A thickness planer will take out cupping, and make things flat, as it makes them thinner. After all, that's what it is made to do.
I would not put and endgrain piece in a planer though. Did that with a piece of rosewood. One piece exploded in the machine.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

A thickness planer will not take out cupping and that is NOT what it is made for. It will not take out a twist either. A drum sander will. A planer is a thicknesser for quick removal of material, real quick..

You better look up planer operation because you have no idea how it works if you think a planer is made to take cupping out of a board. It will not, you will get a thinner cupped board. A jointer will remove cupping also.

Skis are not the best way, a drum sander is. I could flatten 30 boards for every one you do. Skis are a way to do it if you have no drum sander, that's about it. 

I'll stick to that. I have a drum sander, planer and a jointer. I have tried and tested every which way myself to verify this. In woodshop you learn that a planer will not square up or remove cupping etc, you must have a jointer too. And now that drum sanders are in home work shops it is another way to remove cupping.

Read this first paragraph:

http://www.woodworking.com/ww101et-jointvsplaner.cfm

A good article on how to get a planer to flatten using a sled & wedges(shims) etc:

http://www.provenwoodworking.com/planer-tips.html

In depth about jointing vs planing: blurb "A planer, on the other hand, mills one face of a board perfectly parallel to its opposing face but only for the wood that is pinched under the feed rollers at the time of cutting. It also, at the same time, smooths the surface. It does not remove any warp, and there are 4 types - twist, cup bow, and crook.":

http://www.inthewoodshop.org/faq/showfaq.shtml?40

Here are some reviews on some drums sanders. You can get some for as little as 500.00 used or in a 10" size new. They cost about the same as a good router table set up and a drum sander is now a very homeowner hobby friendly tool. Not out of the reach of anyone who drops 1000.00 on a lift, table and router. Since Delta started the home size drum sanders several years back and Jet followed I could not get by without one.:

http://drumsanders.blogspot.com/2007/11/drum-sanders-review.html

Sorry if I sound like an ass or condescending. In my opinion its not worth debating using skis verse a drum sander or any other method as everyone has their own ideas about time and effort. I like to minimize the effort getting the lumber ready for a project, thats why I invested in a planer, jointer and drum sander. I can get to the fun part faster this way, well what is the fun part for me anyway. But what each machine does is not up for interpretation, the machines do what they do.


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## TAJones (Dec 31, 2008)

rwyoung said:


> Skis might be your answer. There have been several recent threads on here about the use of skis and surfacing of boards. I just finished my jig last weekend and I'm fine tuning it a bit. It works pretty well but I need to do a better job on the work-piece hold-downs. One of my practice pieces started to lift while I was experimenting (playing) and that sorta ruined things. QUOTE]
> 
> Use carpet tape or a couple of wooden wedges on each side...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nick

The ski jig can take out cups,bow,twist and it only cost penny's unlike a planer or a drum sander  yes it will take longer but most have more time than money 
Check out Harry's gallery and he will have snapshots showing how to do it.

Drum Sanders $600.oo to $1500.oo not cheap  most don't put out that much for a table saw the real base item in the wood working shop...

http://grizzly.com/products/12-Baby-Drum-Sander/G0459
http://grizzly.com/products/16-Drum-Sander-w-Rubber-Conveyor/G1079R
http://grizzly.com/products/24-Drum-Sander/G1066R

most on the forum are weekend wood workers or to say wood working is a hobby and at best a part time hobby 

I will say you don't want to start with a board that looks like a banana , it's just a waste of time but you can always cut it down to almost the right size and most of the banana will be gone  the same is true for cup or bow wood stock..
Junk in junk out most the time is true...it's just a lot essayer to pickup some wood that doesn't look like bananas 
or bow and arrow stock... 



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nickao65 said:


> A thickness planer will not take out cupping and that is NOT what it is made for. It will not take out a twist either. A drum sander will. A planer is a thicknesser for quick removal of material, real quick..
> 
> You better look up planer operation because you have no idea how it works if you think a planer is made to take cupping out of a board. It will not, you will get a thinner cupped board. A jointer will remove cupping also.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Absolutely it can do it. I never said the ski jig couldn't.

My problem was the poster stated the ski jig could do it better. No way.

He also stated that a planer can take the cupping out of a board, again no way.

I don't know Bob a lot of guys are buying these fancy lifts and tables and I would much rather have a drum sander than a fancy lift and table. Heck I stick my hand under the table, big deal. Of course this is my opinion.

Actually, a planer, jointer and drum sander are all nice to have before a fancy lift and 1500.00 dollars in fancy router table stuff. And for 1500.00 you can darn near get all that used(even new). Or in lunch box size new. Then after 3 months of saving money on rough lumber they could use the x-tra funds to get that fancy lift.

If someone had told me what I just said I would not have had to sell half the stuff I had and then get the planer, jointer and drum sander. I had to learn the hard way my self.

I had thousands of dollars in bits and lifts and stuff that just was not correct in starting out. Heck I could not get a board square and could not understand why my routing was messed up.

A nice basic shop to me has a jointer, a planer, a band saw, a disc sander and a spindle sander, some routers, followed by a drum sander. You could make almost anything with these tools. And buying the smaller machines it is not very expensive. You can get a nice jointer for 150.00 to 200.00, a nice rigid planer for 250.00 etc, etc. 

Then I see guys getting fancy router tables and lifts before they ever get any of this basic tooling(its not as sexy as an incra LS) and then they do not even understand the concept of using a planer and jointer together to square up and flatten a board or understand how the planer works on a board.

I propose a drum sander is now within in the reach of many home woodworkers at least any that afford a planer and jointer.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, that's it guys and gals, a drum sander is now mandatory for all members, I'm sure putting in a bulk order will reduce the price by at least 30%, possibly more. Also as a health and safety measure, you must all update your dust collection systems to cope with the sanders, again, a bulk order will dramatically reduce the price. As a matter of interest, I have, on several occasions removed cupping on boards, using my thicknesser, where the cupping has been from side to side with the hump on top. As has been stated, we are, in the main, hobbyists with no intention of earning an income from woodworking, and in many cases money is in very short supply leading to some very ingenious low cost solutions to to all manner of problems.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

TAJones said:


> rwyoung said:
> 
> 
> > Skis might be your answer. There have been several recent threads on here about the use of skis and surfacing of boards. I just finished my jig last weekend and I'm fine tuning it a bit. It works pretty well but I need to do a better job on the work-piece hold-downs. One of my practice pieces started to lift while I was experimenting (playing) and that sorta ruined things. QUOTE]
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

harrysin said:


> Well, that's it guys and gals, a drum sander is now mandatory for all members, I'm sure putting in a bulk order will reduce the price by at least 30%, possibly more. Also as a health and safety measure, you must all update your dust collection systems to cope with the sanders, again, a bulk order will dramatically reduce the price. As a matter of interest, I have, on several occasions removed cupping on boards, using my thicknesser, where the cupping has been from side to side with the hump on top. As has been stated, we are, in the main, hobbyists with no intention of earning an income from woodworking, and in many cases money is in very short supply leading to some very ingenious low cost solutions to to all manner of problems.


I never said mandatory where the heck did you get that!

If you can not admit that the skiis have limited uses and takes a LONG time for planing than you are not realistic at all.

For planing stuff flat it is a last resort to me. Have fun if thats how you have it . 

But quit with the ridiculous condescending attitude towards me. There are probably many here that will never ever see their way to even use the skiis. I have not taken that view at all.

Harry it seems anything neg about the skiis and you can not take it and have to throw a shot at me.

I got a drum sander and fell in love what can I say.

And if you still think a planer is designed to take cupping out of a board you are mistaken it was sheer luck if it worked. I am not going to debate any further a fact that anyone can google all day and find out I am correct. It's a waste of time. You need a jointer to get out cupping and twist, not a planer. Its basic tool function.

You said you had no time for me but it sure looks like you took the time to respond because I object to the skiis and propose a drum sander is better for that application, which it is.

If you enjoy getting on me fine, but not here it takes away from the forum. You have taken three cheap shots at me now. I say skiis take to long and a drum sander is better , you say "now a drum sander is mandatory", not what I said and that was a smart remark. I proposed a drum sander last on my list if you read my post. 

Say what you will I know you can not teach an old dog new tricks so I will no longer try.

Everybody just use skiis and don't even try my drum sander method, there feel better?

Are you jealous I make money at my hobby? Go ahead and exclude me just do not reply to my posts than. There are at least a few guys that can learn something from mistakes I have made in the past and I will continue to pass on what I have learned. Being in business has nothing to do with it get off that, I am a hobbyist as much as anyone else. If I never said I was in business than you would have found something else to harp on. You take this ski jig thing pretty personal.

I take calling me out because I am in business personal, because it is. I live woodworking it's my hobby and my business.

I guess everything the OP guys say and sell is crap because they are in business. If not for hobbyist being in business this forum would not exist! Thank you OP for being businessman and providing this forum and showing how a hobby can be a business and pass on useful information as well. I am no different from them.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

My intention in saying a planer will remove cupping was meant that if you have a flat surface, and the other is cupped, (from resawing perhaps) the planer will remove the cupping. It will also remove cupping and twist by using a planer board and shims. 

Before I had a jointer and planer, I was very successful at jointing and planing stock by using a router ski. It is not all that time consuming, but if I was making a living at it, the story would certainly be different.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The first shot shows a cupped Jarrah board, one of two that I was given this very afternoon. As you can see from the gap at each side, it IS cupped. Because the board measures 8.5" by 3', I can't use the 6.5" jointer shown, which is probably the size that most hobbyists who own one have. Planing a 3' long board using skis would be long winded, so, in MY case the planer is the way to go. I have NEVER even remotely suggested that ski routing is the be all end all, only that for SOME jobs, it outshines other methods and in any case adds an extra, low cost tool to ones collection.
The reason that I tend to take exception to some of YOUR posts, is that you are always adamant that your ideas and methods are the correct ones, they work perfectly for you, so must be perfect for everyone! Just carefully re-read all of your posts to see what I mean.
Regarding things like going metric, as members who know me well can confirm, from time to time the forum becomes quiet, if not boring, so I raise subjects with tongue in cheek to stir things up, with lots of success I might add!


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Okay guys, let's relax and not let this get personal. 

Personal issues can be better handled thru Private messaging.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

This is off just a bit , where is your guard on the joinery ? , I was looking at the one I have on Thur. and I am going to replace the spring with a hvy.duty one to help me hold the stock to the fence,,,I could use some spring boards but I said lets do it what we have in place instead by just replacing the spring  I guess I can make my own spring I have the wire just a bit lazy to make my own..   and fire up the lathe to make just one,,,yep, I made a jig to make springs on the lathe  LOL LOL
=========
Hey Harry just for kicks I took some snapshots of the spring makers just for you mate 

========


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harrysin said:


> The first shot shows a cupped Jarrah board, one of two that I was given this very afternoon. As you can see from the gap at each side, it IS cupped. Because the board measures 8.5" by 3', I can't use the 6.5" jointer shown, which is probably the size that most hobbyists who own one have. Planing a 3' long board using skis would be long winded, so, in MY case the planer is the way to go. I have NEVER even remotely suggested that ski routing is the be all end all, only that for SOME jobs, it outshines other methods and in any case adds an extra, low cost tool to ones collection.
> The reason that I tend to take exception to some of YOUR posts, is that you are always adamant that your ideas and methods are the correct ones, they work perfectly for you, so must be perfect for everyone! Just carefully re-read all of your posts to see what I mean.
> Regarding things like going metric, as members who know me well can confirm, from time to time the forum becomes quiet, if not boring, so I raise subjects with tongue in cheek to stir things up, with lots of success I might add!


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I rather like the idea of drum sanders being mandatory - as long as we can get Congress to buy them for us (notwithstanding the locale from which we post). 

My (admittedly theoretical) concern with skis is the potential for variable sag over the width of the ski jig, since 3/8" rods aren't rigid. As such, it seems to me that there would be greater flex under the weight of the router (and the pressure of holding the jig against the bench) toward the center of the skis, and less toward the edges. 

For this particular application, working with end grain, it might also be necessary to score the edges, or add backer strips, to prevent tear-out.

And, since both surfaces are uneven, some sort of holding jig (or, shims) might be helpful to keep the pieces aligned to a single plane instead of rocking against the irregular bottom.

From my perspective, using a belt sander for flattening is rather like using hand planes (e.g. for bench flattening). Since there is no external precision, both tools require developing some skill in handling them properly for this sort of task, along with pre-determing and marking high spots, and then carefully working the surface down to the desired geometric plane. 

The key to solving any problem, I think, is to devise a solution that will work with whatever tools the individual has at hand, or can easily huild for the purpose.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ralph

see below 

=======


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Ralph,

Check your router, some of the rods required may be metric not a SAE rod.

If you check into Bj's & Harry's threads about ski's. You'll find the Bob uses allthread, Harry uses solid rod with threads only on the ends. I have to believe that there isn't a right or wrong way, other than, make sure you have the right size of rod.

Ski's are on my to-do list but, too many other things first.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

OK, I'm here to say that a simple ski jig works great! I picked up some nice cherry and walnut short ends (3' bits) from a local hardwood seller (who by the way has great prices - Mark Frieden Hardwoods).

Anyway, I made my simple ski jig by doubling up some 3/4" plywood to make two 1-1/2" blanks for the skis. Then a little cutting and routing and I have two trapezoids with 3/8" slots for the rods. My router can use 3/8" truss rod.

Now I will speak to the sag issue. Yes, it can sag. But what I did was cut a 3rd piece of all thread so that once I have the depth set I can run a third piece through above the router base, near the top of my side piece slots and lock it all together. I'm thinking about making some modifications to the side pieces to make this easier. FYI, I cut the rod down to 18" each. The trick is to have no more width in the jig than you absolutely need to get the job done.

Anyway, it worked like a charm after a little practice. I milled down some 4/4 walnut to 1/2" and also a chunk of birch. Then off to the 4212 configured for box joints (I wanted to play with that feature). Then a little patern routing on one piece and a pass over the 1/4" spiral bit and I have a neat IN/OUT box drying in the clamps. I'm calling this one a prototype so the next time I'll mill enough to make a double stack one. 

All in all, I'm quite pleased with the skis. There is some skill involved in getting the "feel" for how to feed them across the material. And it is slow going with just a 3/4" bit (I ordered a 1-3/4" bottom cutter but the eBay guy goofed and shipped me a Roman Ogee!). And it really made quite a mess in the garage with all the chips! Smells good though after cutting the walnut.

Oh, and I got to play with my card scraper too. Gee. I got to do all kinds of fun stuff today! And only one blood blister from when a Irwin clamp bit me while I was trying to spring it.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

You milled 4/4 down to 1/2"? Next time maybe consider taking it to the bandsaw and resawing the thickness so that not so much wood is wasted. You could have had 2 boards out of that nice stock.

Sounds like everything else worked out really well for you.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

No bandsaw. It was S2S down at about 7/8". Being the short-ends, there was stuff to work around so I don't feel bad about milling it down to 1/2".


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, I hate to publicly admit that I haven't used the guard on my jointer since I bought it about 30 years ago, I just find gets in the way. The only "accident" that I've had, when I sliced the tip off my right index finger, due to my own stupidity, would not have been prevented with the guard in place.
I'm extremely impressed by your spring making, perhaps you would present a thread showing/explaining how you soften/temper the wire etc. I would have found this very useful over the years, as it is, I dismantle anything with springs before binning and keep them sorted for future use.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Thanks 

No need to soften/temper the wire that's the neat thing about the jig 

It's clamped into the tool holder and the wire runs down a slot and on to a mandrel that's chucked up in place and using a live center..

Turn on the machine and let it wind up on the shaft, the jig has a drag screw on it that holds the wire back and puts on more drag on wire .
The music wire out of the box will hold the shape/spring to the wire...I have 3 slip on tubes for diff. sizes, but now when it comes to 3/16" wire size it's be more tricky to make them..
Most of the springs I make I use the 1/16" wire size that's works for many of them..
To put the hook on the ends is use a small prop.torch ( not a flash light Harry ) hahaha , and with a pair of needle nose pliers they are done 

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harrysin said:


> Bj, I hate to publicly admit that I haven't used the guard on my jointer since I bought it about 30 years ago, I just find gets in the way. The only "accident" that I've had, when I sliced the tip off my right index finger, due to my own stupidity, would not have been prevented with the guard in place.
> I'm extremely impressed by your spring making, perhaps you would present a thread showing/explaining how you soften/temper the wire etc. I would have found this very useful over the years, as it is, I dismantle anything with springs before binning and keep them sorted for future use.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, I have more questions on spring making but don't want to turn this controversial thread into one that isn't! Perhaps one of our moderators can shift it to the lobby where other members could well be interested in the subject.


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## Cayuga Kid (Sep 22, 2008)

Hi Guys: Thanks for all the info and lively exchanges did not think my simple question would elicit the response that it did. I think I am going to go the ski route. A friend of mine has a big european made thicknessing sander, and I know he would sand these for me But he will not take any money as he is a commercial shop, and I do not want to take up his time, and anyways I would rather to it my self, just for the satisfaction. I would like to get a small thickness sander, but that purchase is way down the road. 
Great forum and great info, keep up the good work. Thank You Michael


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

*two quick pics of my ski jig*

Here are a couple of pictures of my ski jig. More or less modeled after what I've seen here from Harry and BobJ. 

I've cut down the 3/8" truss rod to 18" each. Not shown is a 3rd length I can slip in near the top of the slot behind the router to help stabilize the jig. I think however I will add a couple of blocks to the "back" edge of each trapezoid so that the 3rd rod is closer to the top and is much less likely to catch on the plunge base.

The ski blocks are made from two layers of 3/4 sandwiched together. Just some B-C plywood I had lying around.

Not shown is the sheet of 3/4 particle board with melamine on each side. I'm using this as a sacrifical top. To hold down my workpieces I just used some scraps of 1/2 plywood and double face taped a bit of sand paper to the edges. Then one strip of plywood on each side of the work piece and nail down to the sacificial top. 

The spacing of the skis gets adjusted so that they are only far enough apart to let the bit travel from edge to edge of the workpiece. In the photos I scooted them out to just about maximum travel to give an idea of the jig size.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rwyoung

Looking good 

Now that you have made one, you can now see why they are so neat 
Now you can use the one you have to put in the slots in the ski parts easy I know what it takes to do that without the ski jig...

May I suggest you put in some holes in the ski parts so you can move the router over to the left or the right side so you can truly use the ski jig to it's full potential  i.e. putting in the slots for the rods in the ski parts..

The last snapshot is from the post of the 
3D Router Carving, just one more way to use the ski jig 
http://www.routerforums.com/cnc-routing/5870-3d-router-carving.html


see below 

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rwyoung said:


> Here are a couple of pictures of my ski jig. More or less modeled after what I've seen here from Harry and BobJ.
> 
> I've cut down the 3/8" truss rod to 18" each. Not shown is a 3rd length I can slip in near the top of the slot behind the router to help stabilize the jig. I think however I will add a couple of blocks to the "back" edge of each trapezoid so that the 3rd rod is closer to the top and is much less likely to catch on the plunge base.
> 
> ...


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Yep, I will probably need to void out an area for the handles too. Or I can remove them from the base when I need to close down the skis.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rwyoung

I would not remove them you need them to plunge the router down and keep control of the router 
It's not so you can close the skis down it's so you can move the router over to the right or the left but still keep it moving true with the aid of the hold down fixture...putting in slots is so easy it will blow your mind..and it's so safe unlike using the router table 

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rwyoung said:


> Yep, I will probably need to void out an area for the handles too. Or I can remove them from the base when I need to close down the skis.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Longer rods would help also. You're limiting the width of the stock with short ones.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

With longer rods, at least this particular brand/grade of truss rod, it would bow pretty easily. These aren't stainless steel, just el-cheapo from HD. However adding a third rod near the top of the skis seems to really stiffen things up. Prevents the top edges of the ski blocks from moving toward each other as the two support rods flex and push the bottom of the skis apart.

I have more rod, un-cut so changing to a longer length is no big deal.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rwyoung

That's why I used B7 Acme rod ( 3/8-12 ) it will not bend like the normal rod..  plus it lets me move the nuts quicker..
or you can use 3/4-10 rod it will not bend ..with the weight of the router or you pushing down on it..

from 
http://www.mcmaster.com/

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rwyoung said:


> With longer rods, at least this particular brand/grade of truss rod, it would bow pretty easily. These aren't stainless steel, just el-cheapo from HD. However adding a third rod near the top of the skis seems to really stiffen things up. Prevents the top edges of the ski blocks from moving toward each other as the two support rods flex and push the bottom of the skis apart.
> 
> I have more rod, un-cut so changing to a longer length is no big deal.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI rwyoung
> 
> I would not remove them you need them to plunge the router down and keep control of the router
> It's not so you can close the skis down it's so you can move the router over to the right or the left but still keep it moving true with the aid of the hold down fixture...putting in slots is so easy it will blow your mind..and it's so safe unlike using the router table
> ...


It looks like just one hex head to take each handle off the base. When I was using it this weekend, I was NOT plunging and locking the router while running. The force required to overcome the plunge springs was enough to bow the rods even with the 3rd rod in place (although not as much).

I would set it into position, just off the work, then plunge, lock and finally turn it on. So having the handles off the router base seems reasonable. However it is an extra step when assembling the jig as I don't have an extra plunge base. When passing the jig over the work I was holding onto the ski blocks, not the router. Even with the third rod added it was possible to flex things if I had my hands on the router. But holding onto the skis it was not problem to get a flat surface.

All this flexing does sort of point to the truss rod being just a little too soft. A stainless rod would probably be stiffer.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI rwyoung
> 
> That's why I used B7 Acme rod ( 3/8-12 ) it will not bend like the normal rod..  plus it lets me move the nuts quicker..
> or you can use 3/4-10 rod it will not bend ..with the weight of the router or you pushing down on it..
> ...


I don't see 3/8-12 but I do see 3/8-16... Wait a second, yes I do but those seem wicked expensive at 3/8-12 even in plain steel... You happen to know the exact part number?

And anything to move my nuts quicker!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi rw,

Check with Fastenal. They may carry it. May save you from ordering it. There is a retail store there in Law.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Hamlin said:


> Hi rw,
> 
> Check with Fastenal. They may carry it. May save you from ordering it. There is a retail store there in Law.


Yep, they are just down the road from me off of Haskell Ave and 31st. But I've never know Fastenal to be cheap about anything. 

At the moment, it is working with the craptacular truss rod you get from HD if I add a third rod it is pretty stable if not a bit of a pain in the butt. I think modifying the skis to clear the handles or just plain making new ones (gotta make a set of skis to make a better set of skis??? Where does it all stop?) might be the way to go. 

It is all good fun and learning lots!


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

rwyoung said:


> And anything to move my nuts quicker!


A mad wife?


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi rw,

Yup, they are on the pricey side. 


Now Mike, that cracked me up. LOLOLOLOL


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rwyoung

see below, snapshot with the Acme rod in place 

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rwyoung said:


> I don't see 3/8-12 but I do see 3/8-16... Wait a second, yes I do but those seem wicked expensive at 3/8-12 even in plain steel... You happen to know the exact part number?
> 
> And anything to move my nuts quicker!


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI rwyoung
> 
> see below, snapshot with the Acme rod in place
> 
> ======


Fantastic. I'm going to continue to play dumb... I want right-hand thread, correct? 

Following along in McMasterCar from the picture you gave me I pick part number 98940A903 and then it asks me to pick a thread. If I pick right-hand I end up with spec shown in the screen capture. This seem right to you? It looks like the stuff you have in your photo is the black-oxide finish.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Right On  (right hand threads ) don't forget the nuts they are hard to find 
the price on the nuts will knock your socks off 
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rwyoung said:


> Fantastic. I'm going to continue to play dumb... I want right-hand thread, correct? Thread direction refers to the way I would need to spin a nut to run it onto the rod. It was a long day today and I just don't feel like thinking for myself right now.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> Right On  (right hand threads ) don't forget the nuts they are hard to find
> the price on the nuts will knock your socks off
> ====


 94815A106 Plain Steel Acme 2G Hex Nut Right-Hand, 3/8"-12 Acme Size at $2.21 each seems a bit steep. But this is cheaper than the square nuts or wing nuts. You just have 8 hex nuts on your rig? Plus 4 fender washers?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 
you have a sharp eye , 8 washers and 8 nuts ,,,right on 

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rwyoung said:


> 94815A106 Plain Steel Acme 2G Hex Nut Right-Hand, 3/8"-12 Acme Size at $2.21 each seems a bit steep. But this is cheaper than the square nuts or wing nuts. You just have 8 hex nuts on your rig? Plus 4 fender washers?


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for all your help. Got the stuff ordered from McMaster-Carr. Some time next week I'll take a stab at modifying or making new skis with clearance for the plunge base handles. But in the mean time I'm still pretty tickled with the results I got from some B-C plywood and cheap truss-rod! I just wish the eBay bit guy had gotten my order right so I would have had the larger bit. I think I mentioned the order got messed up and he sent me a big roman ogee instead of the flat-bottom bit. Kinda hard to use the ogee bit for thicknessing stock. 3/4" cutter worked, just takes a lot of passes.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome rwyoung

It took me a LONG time to like the ski jig , just ask Harry  but now that I have one I would not do without it...and I don't know what I did with out it..it opens many new doors for the router  and I'm sure you will find out the same as I did...  and come up with many new ways to use it.. 


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rwyoung said:


> Thanks for all your help. Got the stuff ordered from McMaster-Carr. Some time next week I'll take a stab at modifying or making new skis with clearance for the plunge base handles. But in the mean time I'm still pretty tickled with the results I got from some B-C plywood and cheap truss-rod! I just wish the eBay bit guy had gotten my order right so I would have had the larger bit. I think I mentioned the order got messed up and he sent me a big roman ogee instead of the flat-bottom bit. Kinda hard to use the ogee bit for thicknessing stock. 3/4" cutter worked, just takes a lot of passes.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

So far the jig sorta screams "safe small work piece routing" to me. Stuff that is too small to route handheld and also too small to work at the table without building something to hold it or messing with parallel jaw wood clamps. But if you can just fasten it down to a flat table and "ski" the router over it, that seems much safer.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

A very neat job Rob. I's a pity that American routers appear to have holes less than 1/2". With my Makita using 12mm rods by 27" long, after years of extensive use I haven't been aware of any sag, in spite of a router being permanently mounted. I agree with Mike, longer rods will make for a more versatile ski set-up.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rwyoung

Talking about small parts, I broke a part for the Milescraft sign maker the other day, it was a metal clip,, 1/8" x 1 1/8" wide x 2 1/2" long with a slot down the center for the screw,, and I said OK lets see if the ski jig can do the job, I pin nailed the blank part down to some scrap,,put in the slot easy with the ski jig and I would never try that with the router table or a hand router..the stock was 1/8" thick , great tool 



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rwyoung said:


> So far the jig sorta screams "safe small work piece routing" to me. Stuff that is too small to route handheld and also too small to work at the table without building something to hold it or messing with parallel jaw wood clamps. But if you can just fasten it down to a flat table and "ski" the router over it, that seems much safer.


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