# Table saw repair question.......



## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hello all !
I recently came across a deal I thought was to sweet to pass up.
I purchased a Skil 3400 13A table saw with right side table extension, and rear sliding out feed extension with stand. It was missing the blade guard and the miter gauge. Paid $35.00 for it.
It cleaned up really really nice for a 10- 15 year old saw. ( its not the new red base 3400 solid table series. Its the old black base half webbed table series 3400. )

On with my question..... after cleaning it up adjusting the fence and installing a new blade I ripped a few boards with it. Now I am not an expert on a table saw by any means but this seems a little weird.......
Just about every cut I get what seems to be blade wobble marks ( the arbor is tight btw ) down the work piece. I have it secure against the fence while feeding, I am keeping a nice even paced feed. I took the motor apart and cleaned it up a bit as well as checked the bearings and brushes. That is when I discovered the previous owner had been cutting tile with it. 
White chalk was caked on the motor case inside and out, as well as on the field and associated assemblies. I removed all and cleaned it. Aligned the brushes properly, realigned the motor properly ( only one way it will go on and it centers it self via steel dowels, and spacer head screws. ).
at start up it starts up fine, revs to speed and then gets quite noisy and a little chattery. 
Is this a common occurrence with these saws ? Or do you think the arbor assembly is screwed ? 
Finally.... whats an easy way to tell ? 

I would really like to find out this is an easy fix because I got the saw so cheap LOL! BUT.. if its not I will just re-list it on craigs list where I found it with real world info on how it performs and use the money towards a new table saw. Although, one with both extensions, out feed, and a stand is going to be pricey now days 

THANKS A BUNCH !
Duane


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Duane867 said:


> Hello all !
> 
> at start up it starts up fine, revs to speed and then gets quite noisy and a little chattery.


This is the part that bothers me. Sounds like a thrust bearing or thrust washer got chewed up by the tile dust. You might check for end play but I suspect you will find little or none until it gets up to speed. You might try putting some side pressure against the blade and slowly rotate the blade by hand to see if you can feel anything. I am assuming that is a direct drive.
Good Luck

Try this link, I suspect the problem is Item 57 or 63 or both. Better recheck because this is listed as a 3400 Type I, they also had a type II and then had some with red bases. Here is the Link:
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/skil-3400-type-f012340099-table-saw-parts-c-130_164_796.html


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Maybe I should just order both bearings and the thrust washer ? ( 57,58,63 )
I did remove the armature and the thrust washer while cleaning. 
The washer looked fine to me but that means nothing really because I wouldn't know a bad one unless a new one was sitting beside it unless the old was cracked.

As long as that's a 13 amp motor I have a feeling they are all the same, as they are all direct drive with gear reduction. I think the type I and type II references are made to distinguish between models that came with sliding out feed, and extension as well as the webbed tables versus the solid. I will definitely be reworking the fence on this sucker though. Maybe making a rail system ? I dunno but the current lacks.

I'll do as Harry suggested in a PM and check for end play and for eccentricity tomorrow as well. I have a dial indicator so looks like I will finally get to use it 
I have a feeling you may be on to something with the bearings and washers though.
I'll take her a part tomorrow again and re check. The gear side bearing scares me a little though. as long as it all comes out through the top by removing the 3 bolts from that alloy cap all will be well. Other wise the gear looks like it will fall flat on its nose and be stuck in the casing other wise if I remove the drive shaft to check the bearing. If I need to order parts I'll order directly from skil/bosch though. They are about %30 cheaper buying direct then resellers. Most makers are actually ( aside from craftsmen junk that is).


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Another cause of your new saw's problems might have been misuse due to the cutting of this product:James Hardie siding. The use of consumer model direct-drive saws to cut the cement/fiber siding is prevelant and can lead to the kind of problems you describe. The presence of "white chalk"-like residue is usually the tipoff.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

John thanks for that eReplacement Parts link! That will come in very handy!


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I'm telling ya.... check the manufactueres website before you buy from ereplacements.com.
I checked all around and they are the highest cost supplier. The manufacturer was thew cheapest in my case. 
Blade guard assembly, miter guage, brushes and bearings for my saw run over $100 shipped from ereplacementparts.com. Its right around $60 shipped directly from Skil/Bosch.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

westend said:


> Another cause of your new saw's problems might have been misuse due to the cutting of this product:James Hardie siding. The use of consumer model direct-drive saws to cut the cement/fiber siding is prevelant and can lead to the kind of problems you describe. The presence of "white chalk"-like residue is usually the tipoff.


Could very well be. This was clearly wet work though. There were white drip marks all over the bottom of the saw. Do you cut James hardy wet as well ?


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

There are some great resources on this site, many here who are expert in addition to being quite helpful. However, if you don't find an answer here, you might try the old woodworking machinery website (www.owwm.com). I am in the process of rebuiding a jointer and found the answers to many questions there.
Good luck,
rstermer


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Replace the bearings and thrust washers. Since it sounds like this saw was misused, this should take care of your problem. If your blade still has a slight wobble, try using a stabilizer washer on the blade.


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Duane867 said:


> Could very well be. This was clearly wet work though. There were white drip marks all over the bottom of the saw. Do you cut James hardy wet as well ?


No, Hardie siding is cut with shears or a diamond blade, specific to fiber reinforced cement board. Maybe what you're seeing is the previous owners attempt to clean the saw. If the guy had tried to use it as a tile wet-saw, there would probably be a buildup in line with the blade and the inside cabinet of the saw would be covered with residue. The motor would probably have shorted from the spray, as well. Hard to tell from over here. I've seen a lot of crazy users, though.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Duane867 said:


> I'm telling ya.... check the manufactueres website before you buy from ereplacements.com.
> I checked all around and they are the highest cost supplier. The manufacturer was thew cheapest in my case.
> Blade guard assembly, miter guage, brushes and bearings for my saw run over $100 shipped from ereplacementparts.com. Its right around $60 shipped directly from Skil/Bosch.


That's true, ereplacement isn't the cheapest around but they can usually get what you need quickly. That, and a lot of mfg cannot, or will not, sell directly to individuals, retail license or some other paper garbage. Hitachi directs me to Fastenal or Lowes special order. Neither stock anything and I have yet to get a deal from either, but ereplacement had an edge guide for my router about $10 less than Lowes, counting shipping.:wacko: Don't even get me started on Craftsman.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Yeah it definitely comes down to availability and time window when you need the parts.

Craftsman has gone down hill in a big big way. It saddens me to no end because I used to be a BIG TIME craftsman buyer and believer. Hell even my mowers and garage door openers were craftsman. Right down to my smallest tool box. 
Now I wouldnt buy a tape measure.
Once upon a time the quality was excellent and the warranties were unmatched. Now its all made ( CHEAPLY I might add ) in China and there basically is no warranty. They hassle you to no end now if you try to get a broken wrench or ratchet replaced. You know last year they actually tried to make me bring in the entire set to prove I owned the mates to the serial on the ratchet that broke before they would honor the " no hassle life time replacement no matter what " warranty. I said " Buddy I don't know how you would feel if I were the one telling you that, but there is no way in hell I am bringing my rolling tool chest full of tools to this store just so you can match up serial numbers in order to get a measly ratchet replaced." than I asked for the manager, and the regional manager number from him. THEEEeeeen I called corporate when I got home.
Its a steaming pile of booshit now in sears.


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Duane,
Good on 'ya for making the calls. The way I figure it is that none of the big stores are going to keep up on quality unless the consumer gives them some feedback. I have two rolling boxes full of Craftsman and it doesn't bode well for replacements. The last time I replaced a ratchet, I was given a less -than-quality substitute.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Duane867 said:


> Yeah it definitely comes down to availability and time window when you need the parts.
> 
> Craftsman has gone down hill in a big big way. It saddens me to no end because I used to be a BIG TIME craftsman buyer and believer. Hell even my mowers and garage door openers were craftsman. Right down to my smallest tool box.
> Now I wouldnt buy a tape measure.
> ...


The only time I had a similar problem like that I asked for the general manager and the regionals number and then asked to go to the GM's office so we could call the regional together.. on his speakerphone. He replied "you know he's going to give in, don't you?" I agreed and he honored their "Satisfaction guaranteed or your money refunded" policy.

Maybe I was just lucky.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Point is you shouldn't have had to go to that length to get them to honor their warranty on a broken tool. Life time replacement means just that. Life time replacement. I could see if you cut it in two, or burnt the snot out of it with a torch. Other wise its replaceable on them under their life time warranty given on their sockets, wrenches , and ratchets. ( which is why we purchased the tool sin the 1st place.)



Now they sell cheap ratchets with every kit and charge extra for the same quality we used to get standard a few years ago :-(





Well, I am about ready to place my order through Skil/Bosch for my bearings, washers, brushes, miter guide, and blade guard. I may just make a miter guide and save my money on that though. HD and Lowes sell 5/8 x 1/4" aluminum bar stock any way. 
I could just switch out the bars on my Ryobi router miter guide when I want to use it on my table saw. Its easy enough to fab aluminum.  
If I do that I think the total in parts will be around $65 plus shipping.
So that's about $78-$80 shipped for the parts, $35 paid for the table saw = $113 - $115 and I'll have a saw with basically new guts that will last years to come versus the cost of a new table saw with the same options and stand as this one which run from $169 - $200. 
Plus I get the joy out of tinkering with some thing to get it to work the way I want it to and not worry about voiding the warranty ! LOL! ( Saw has to be 10 years old if its a day. They haven't made a black base in years. )

I double checked my numbers again and every part listed for the F01234004A will fit like new right down to the washers in the motor. ( mines an F01234004A ).
I'll snap a picture off of the old girl here soon and post it.


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Duane,
Don't know what kind of use you're aiming for with the new saw or if you can make use of it, but the Eagle Lake crosscut sled is a really good design. Eagle Lake sled I chose to make one instead of replacing the miter gauge. IME, it was a good choice.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hey thanks man. I just want to get the most versatility possible out of it with the best accuracy its capable of. If I have to do a little mod here and there that's fine.
Do you happen to have plans made up for that sled ?

EDIT: Never mind I went to eagle lake.com and found the videos. There really isn't a set of directions per say but rather a proper order and method. 
Seems all is planned around your saws guide slots. Great info and GREAT videos on how to. Thanks a million ! This will be fun !


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I stand humbly corrected about ereplacementparts.com.
They are in fact the cheapest supplier in my researching for parts.

ereplacementparts is $72.75 shipped ( $102.90 shipped with all the parts to make a complete miter gauge. Apparently they wont sell the assembly but you can buy all the parts separately and put it together your self ? OK. what ever LOL ! )

Skil/Bosch ( manufacturers website ) $86.13 shipped. ( no miter or parts to complete one available and one bearing not in stock. ) 

Toolpartsdirect.com $95.37 shipped, and again no miter.

So it looks like I have been spanked good and well with correct information given to me above that I ignored and almost cost my self some dough because of LOL!
ereplacementparts.com is indeed the cheapest supplier on line so far.



Ok so I tore in to it full on tonight. No eccentricity in the blade. Tiny wabble from side to side in the blade though. I removed the drive shaft and gear. all seems fine. I firmly believe its either the bearing or crush washer on the brush side of the motor attached to the armature. Just the same, given what the precious owner put her through, I am replacing all bearings to be safe. 
When I turn it on it sounds like hell until it gets up to speed. Then sounds like hell again while and after a cut. So it almost has to be as previously mentioned.. bearings and washers ate up due to tile dust. Even still..... after I order the parts I will only have $107.75 plus $10 for a 60 tooth blade at big lots. So.. $110.05 versus $200 for a similar saw new. Penny saved and all that.... 

AND I'll definitely be building my own version of that super sled. That would come in handy for all sorts of projects. I'm also going to be building either a fence saddle jig, or a female mortise / dado / rabbit jig for the sled.
I was so amazed I didn't already think of that when he rabitted out a slot and placed another piece of hardwood over it to rout out a t track. I was kicking my self for not thinking of that already LOL !


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

Yes, John Nixon is a very creative fellow. Check out this method of making the mortise and tenon joints on the Mission bed project. It's a very easy way to make a good fitting mortise. 

I opted to buy some t-track off E bay. For the money spent, it saved a lot of time. It is pretty substantial track, as well. Pic is attached.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I may be reselling this saw and buying an old ryobi BT3000 fellas. 
the BT3 is $125 but has all with it and runs great. 
I figure on selling thing for around $75-85.
Its clean AND I figured out the wobble....it was the new blade I installed. 
It was a cheap big lots blade that wasnt balanced and was a little warped.


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