# Advice needed with Air hose fitting replacement



## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Hi Guys

Apologies for being long winded here but I don't want to leave anything out that may be needed.

Need a little help before we have air hissing out all over the place as we just got a new small air compressor!!!!!

New compressor, max 116psi (8 bar)

We already had a 50' OD 1/2" air hose which has a 1/4" quick release female connector one end. The other end has a thread to screw into the old compressor. The new compressor has a 1/4" female quick connector.

The plan (working from the far end of the workshop):

1. Cut the hose to reach from the end of workshop to the compressor leaving the female connector at the end of workshop.

2. Insert a t-connection halfway along the workshop, and add a second female connector to allow air tools to be connected at that point too, on a short hose extension.

3. Either change the current screw-in type fitting at the compressor end to a quick release 1/4" fitting OR add a quick release fitting to the current thread, so the air hose can be detached if necessary.

Makes sense so far?

The question follows....

I've seen barbed type connectors which apparently push into the hose and you would then use a hose clip to hold them on.

Am I right in thinking this is all there is too it or do we have to source someone who can connect all the correct fittings using machinery? We really don't want to go down the copper pipe route due to cost.

Hope someone can help.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

The barbed fittings and hose clamps will work. Just make sure that the barbed fitting you are using is the correct size for the hose. Too small it will be loose and you will have to compensate with the clamp; too tight and you can over-stretch the hose and possibly tear it or cause early failure. Clamp a little past halfway towards the fitting end, making sure you are clamping on the barb, but make sure there is hose extending past the clamp.

We use a special tool for clamping the hoses onto the barbs because hose clamps on the tool end of the hose can cut your hands, or get caught on things. You can minimize the hazzard by using the smallest possible hose clamp that is needed for the job, or by covering the hose clamp with shrink wrap tubing or by covering with rubber tape. 


I personally would prefer tubing for a fixed installation. Rubber or PVC hoses are 'temporary', and should be inspected regularly and replaced as needed. If you are using them as a permanent installation they can be exposed to cut hazzards, UV degredation, reaction to chemicals or solvents contacting the exteriors, or oil in the air causing hardening of the interior. You will need to open the lines and check every so often and replace as needed.

Galvanzied pipe or tubing is a cheaper alternative to copper tubing, and the thicker wall of pipe can last for years even if there is some condensation causing some rust in the pipe. Just make sure you blow your lines out every so often.

Hope this helps.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

It sounds like you are considering making the entire compressed air run from rubber tubing. While rubber tubing lends itself to being flexible, it can cause some tool problems with water carry over. As you probably are aware, you do have to drain the compressor tank, hopefully on a daily basis. Unfortunately, that's only a small portion of the moisture entrained in the compressed air with the rest being carried through the lines and to your tools. As the compressor runs, heat is generated which allows additional moisture to be held in the air in vapor form. This vapor is in turn carried through the lines and as mentioned above, to your tools. Rubber(flexible) lines just cannot be made to slope and drain, allowing water to collect in low points. As KP91 mentioned, hard lines, copper or galvanized piping being the best and sloping towards drains, then through a good dryer then out to your tools via quick disconnects and ultimately your tools. I understand that this is expensive, but then so are your tools and a tool failure in the middle of a project is also expensive. DO NOT USE PVC - it can and will shatter, and my lesson on using that stuff for air lines was watch out for shrapnel.

As far as designing a compressed air system, there are many examples on the 'net, from simple to extreme. 

Now, your question on fittings - barbed are fine, screw clamps work, but compressed sleeves are better.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Dave W,
What's your opinion of C-PVC as opposed to just PVC, for air lines not exceeding 150 PSI?
A couple tire shops I've been in use it, seemingly without problems.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

The size of hose is measured by the inside diameter, so buy barbed fittings according to that.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Gene Howe said:


> Dave W,
> What's your opinion of C-PVC as opposed to just PVC, for air lines not exceeding 150 PSI?
> A couple tire shops I've been in use it, seemingly without problems.


Gene - My opinion is not an opinion but is fact and that is do not use PVC/CPVC/ABS or any other rigid plastic for air lines. Yeah, I know that others have used it successfully (for now) but eventually it will age, expansion from pressure pulses will eventually work harden it then something will bump it and bang, you have a shop full of very sharp pieces flying around, looking for something soft to imbed themselves in like a soft body. This is also shown in manufacturers warnings, i.e.: Can PVC or CPVC pipe be used for compressed air lines? | US Plastic Corporation

I'll say that when this stuff fails explosively, it is frightening as mine did and at about 150 psig. Luckily, nothing hit me. Another is that it was only a couple months old, failing near an elbow but not at the fitting itself. I now have a 1/2" copper system that was installed a couple days later in 2008 and operated until recently, with nary a leak or failure (I recently took it down to reshuffle some outlets and add some length for more cooling surface).

So - with that said, this rigid plastic pipe is to be used for compressed air at your own risk:bad::bad:


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Black pipe can also be used, but put drip legs in with valves to blow out moisture.
Piping to machines, etc. should come off the top, so water doesn't get to them.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

AxlMyk said:


> Black pipe can also be used, but put drip legs in with valves to blow out moisture.
> Piping to machines, etc. should come off the top, so water doesn't get to them.


Mike - the only place I would use black pipe is after any air dryers as it can oxidize in moist air.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I would be hesitant to use any plastic piping that was specifically design for compressed air lines. The problem isn't there ability to hold air under pressure, but when the pipe fails. PVC will splinter when it fails, causing shrapnel to be shot away at high velocity. I used copper piping to run airlines in my shop. (Sweating copper pipe isn't that hard to do after a couple practice joints) When the copper fails, it will split, most likely at the seem, and will stay intact.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I will 2nd that,I do the same with copper pipe,I keep my air at 145 psi. all the time..and I have 4 dip/drain lines in the system.
I must have about 300 ft.of copper running around the shop and out of the shop at a total cost of 25.oo bucks,you can buy use copper pipe cheap at any scrap metal yard new fitting from any hardware store...

==


NiceG316 said:


> I would be hesitant to use any plastic piping that was specifically design for compressed air lines. The problem isn't there ability to hold air under pressure, but when the pipe fails. PVC will splinter when it fails, causing shrapnel to be shot away at high velocity. I used copper piping to run airlines in my shop. (Sweating copper pipe isn't that hard to do after a couple practice joints) When the copper fails, it will split, most likely at the seem, and will stay intact.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

This is a new product that I heard of is something like pex water line

The introduction of Duratec® Airline composite pipe and fittings marks a North American first in the industrial compressed air and inert gas market. IPEX is the first company to manufacture and sell such a composite piping system meeting all of the necessary ASME Codes and OSHA safety standards.

Duratec fittings also carry a national pressure vessel CRN# 0A02020.2C. Duratec may be used for a wide range of applications including compressed air supply, hand tool operation, valve actuation, bulk inert gas delivery systems and CO2 delivery for carbonated beverages.

Duratec’s unique composite structure incorporates a rigid yet flexible aluminum core, permanently bonded to layers of durable high density polyethylene (HDPE) plastic. HDPE on the inner and outer layers provides the best corrosion resistance against aggressive manufacturing environments while eliminating the inner scaling and corrosion associated with traditional metal compressed air pipes. Duratec fittings are supplied in tough nickel plated brass or stainless steel and utilize unique double o-ring seals to ensure long term joint integrity. These mechanical connections require no special tools or training and can be installed in less than 1 minute.

http://www.e-compressor.com/Duratec-Aluminium-Compressed-air-piping-systems-p/446012k.htm


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Semipro said:


> This is a new product that I heard of is something like pex water line
> 
> The introduction of Duratec® Airline composite pipe and fittings marks a North American first in the industrial compressed air and inert gas market. IPEX is the first company to manufacture and sell such a composite piping system meeting all of the necessary ASME Codes and OSHA safety standards.
> 
> ...



Did you by chance check the prices for a full system, not their 'package' with 1/2" being 1.65/foot and a single 90* elbow at ~16 bucks each? Wa-a-a-a-a-y out of my budget vs copper!! It is pretty though:fie:

Duratec Compressed Air Piping System Composite Aluminum


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I did not know we were talking price,thought we were talking products
I have no idea what you or anybody else can afford , just throw the ideas out for your knowledge do with it as you see fit


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Semipro said:


> I did not know we were talking price,thought we were talking products
> I have no idea what you or anybody else can afford , just throw the ideas out for your knowledge do with it as you see fit


Why not discuss pricing? Many if not most of us here are hobbyists and/or are retired and having fun therefore costs are important as most have to live within their budget means. Costs of a product is for sure important in the equation for me - even if I lust after something doesn't mean I can or will get it - even if I just 'bookmark' it in my mind as something interesting.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Angie; one of our members posted a quick comment, in passing, a couple of weeks ago. It was a brilliant suggestion and one which had never occurred to me, in spite of it being very obvious.
His suggestion was to put a tee at the machine end of the line, with one leg running at your selected maximum pressure (100psi ?) and the other leg having an additional pressure regulator to drop the line pressure to a _lower_ pressure to run the tools which are designed to operate that way...eg. 23 ga brad nailers or paint spray equipment. Maybe 60psi?
That way you simply need to hook up your tool and you're good to go (two separate airline, in case that was confusing.) Air hose is pretty inexpensive.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oh, and by the way, there are synthetic alternatives to metal line, specifically for compressed air:
(I realize you're in the UK, Angie, but I'd be surprised if you didn't have nylon line over there(?)...)
New Line Air On Demand Compressor Plumbing Kit [AOD-KIT1] - $179.99 : KMS Tools & Equipment from Vancouver BC, Largest selection of tools in Canada


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

You can go crazy with the costs for air fittings. I juse simple brass quick connects at home, the kind you can get for $4 anywhere. The 'safety' quick disconnects we use at work are about $80 for a female and $20 for a male. It cost several thousands when we switched from the old school fittings to the new 'safe' self venting ones. Unfortunately, expensive doesn't always mean better.

That being said, I thnk that the product John recommended isn't that expensive compared to copper. 100ft of 1/2 inch copper tubing is going to be over $150, plus fittings.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Firstly, thanks to all of you for all replies, noting different types and also pricing. It has to be said, there's a lot of info there.



DaninVan said:


> His suggestion was to put a tee at the machine end of the line, with one leg running at your selected maximum pressure (100psi ?) and the other leg having an additional pressure regulator to drop the line pressure to a _lower_ pressure to run the tools which are designed to operate that way...eg. 23 ga brad nailers or paint spray equipment. Maybe 60psi?


Dan, thanks for your replies. The compressor has dual threaded outlets so a second pipe/hose would be easy enough but I was trying to get away from having a huge amount of hose running across the floor to wherever we're working, as the workshop isn't that large. Also the idea of a quick connect at the main workshop door (furthest from the compressor) would make connecting up a tyre inflator etc fairly simple.

The kit looks like what I'm after but as we have much of that, it's simply the connectors I would be interested in, thus my question.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

kp91 said:


> You can go crazy with the costs for air fittings. I juse simple brass quick connects at home, the kind you can get for $4 anywhere......


Thanks Doug, that's what I was thinking, they can't be that expensive, but wasn't sure on how to connect them.

For the amount of use the compressor/air system will get, I think I'll go with the current airline and use the brass barbed fittings with shrink-wrap or self amalgamating tape over the hose clip once seated. Seems the cheapest option and the hose won't throw shrapnel around if it bursts. And it's cheap enough o replace, although by then we might have had a windfall and be able to replace with metal pipes 

Thanks all again


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Angie, take a lesson from the auto companies. For the last 10 years I have built production lines and weld cells; the headers and drop lines are all black pipe. It is easy enough to purchase one decent filter regulator with an automatic drain valve and that pretty much solves your water problem. For a home application white Teflon pipe dope is fine. (tape always dislodges small pieces into the line)


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Mike said:


> Angie, take a lesson from the auto companies.....


Mike, would love to, but budget is paramount and I've just seen the price of malleable iron air pipe. No trace of black iron pipe here in UK. Even the malleable pipe has to have the threads cut etc. which would add to the cost, then there's the fittings etc. Way too high for my budget, I just saw a link on another thread here about 'frugal woodworking'. That's my limit 

Ideal world I'd be spending thousands on all tools we want, but to spend £200 - £300 GBP ($450 USD) to put in an air line for a £86 GBP ($132 USD) in a hobby workshop seems a little excessive. The main thing I want to do with a lot of money is replace the roof so I can insulate it. Like an oven in there at the moment.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I understand completely Angie. In the US it would be under $20 for a 10' section with everything.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...s=None&Ntpr=1&Ntpc=1&selectedCatgry=SearchAll

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-solid-brass-industrial-uick-coupler-set-68237.html


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

I just want to comment a bit on Plastic type piping. The danger is always there, and you cannot see it or here it, but it is waiting for the right kind of conditions to be present. Then it is not if, but when will it explode. I have seen embedment's of up to a 1/2 of an inch in cinder block. Just one other question, did I read this is a small compressor? My thought here is, for a small compressor, most attachments will require most of the air for the operation of one tool. Is it worth it to build a system for a real small compressor. Any leaks at all and you will lose most of the pressure along with the distance and diameter is going to create a loss as well. My thoughts only.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

For those mentioning using copper pipe, I read the other day that copper is at an alltime high, and even new houses under construction are having their wiring stolen.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

There is a great deal of difference in plastic pipe. 15 years I bought a 100' roll of flexible 1/2" CPVC, for a temporary hot water line, and I never had an occasion to use it. It has been coiled and leaning on the fence here in the west Texas sun for all those years. I was looking at something I needed to do and tried to break this stuff. You cant break it, it will collapse where it is bent sharply, but does not crack. I will have to try and freeze a piece and hit it with a hammer and see what happens. If it passes this test I* might *consider using it, *if they make a 'Shark Bite' fittings for it*. I know I bought it at a local plumbing supply house. Otherwise I will be using copper.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Tagwatts1 said:


> I just want to comment a bit on Plastic type piping........


I agree, I've done my research on types of pipe since I started this thread. I haven't found one forum where pvc/cpvc has been seen as a safe option.



Tagwatts1 said:


> Just one other question, did I read this is a small compressor? .........Is it worth it to build a system for a real small compressor. Any leaks at all and you will lose most of the pressure along with the distance and diameter is going to create a loss as well. My thoughts only.


I understand what you are saying Frank, but we have been using a 240V direct air, no receiver, ancient (and I mean REALLY old) compressor through a 20 meter (65ft) air hose for ages without a problem.

Now we're trying to make the workshop a little more, well, work-friendly, and as the old compressor blow-off/pressure release valve fart noise was louder than my DW table saw, and never stopped as there was no receiver, one of these had to be bought


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

I do not mean to say it won't work, only my experience with plastic type pipes in a large shop. We run pressures to work with tire machines, and quick lift jacks, so the pressure may be greater than what you are using. However, we replaced all of our plastic with metal lines. We could not afford and injury to happen.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Another concern I have with plastic pipe. When we first switched out our reciprocating compressors with large screw compressors we started having issues with the bowls of filter/driers exploding. It had to do with the synthetic lubricants used in the screw compressors carrying over and reacting with the plastic in the bowls and causing them to become brittle and fail in a dramatic fashion.

Even with separators and refrigerated driers on the system, enough oil remains in the air (part of the reason you get kicked out of shop class for playing with compressed air or get reprimanded for using air to blow yourself off). 

I found a website from a oil supplier that lists some of the materials that might not be compatable with compressor oils. Page two gives an example of materials I would have concern using if I don't know what oil is used in the compressor.

http://www.autolube-ams.com/data/g1274.pdf

Saving money is a great thing in my book, just make sure you can do it safely.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Doug; interestingly, the compressor shop that I 'consulted' re replacing the oil in the Legion's draught beer compressor/pressurization system, recommended Canola oil. It's food safe and won't contaminate the beer. I mentioned on a different thread a while back, that the Parks maintenance crews also use it in their chainsaws (the chain oil, not the 2 cycle oil) so as not to contaminate the multitude of local creeks flowing through the parks. 
Apparently it works just fine in both applications.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

It really depends on what you want to do with your air system. I want to do it all including spray painting so here is what I have set up. I use 1.00" copper tubing (for more volume), an automatic drain valve, a desiccant air dryer, air/oil filters, and Oetiker Swing couplings to tie it all together. With this set-up you will never worry about premature air tool failure from moisture and if you wish you can also use this system to spray paint. Just be sure that you have a two stage compressor should you decide to do that.

Oetiker Swing Coupling Technology - YouTube

DAD-500


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