# Craftsman really?



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Hi. I am new to this forum. I am fairly new to wood working. I have owned a Craftsman router for about 10 years but have never really done too much with it until recently. I just made a router table for my first 'big' woodworking project and now I need a more powerful router for it. The router I have just seems to struggle with whatever I throw at it. I tried dovetails and it won't cut cleanly through at full depth of the dovetail bit. Really annoying.

There are several things that just have frustrated me to no end with my current Craftsman so I ruled out Craftsman from the start.

My requirements are:

Plunge and fixed base
Able to be mounted in a table
Adjustable from above the table
Power: minimum 2.25 HP (I don't want it to struggle like my current one 1.5 hp)
1/2 and 1/4 inch bits accepted
Ability to do raised panels (With vertical panel bit is fine)
Fits standard aftermarket router acessories (Current one does not. Had to drill new holes in the Milescraft base plate.)
Quieter than my current one

Here are the models I am looking at:

1. Bosch 1617EVSPK
2. Porter Cable 895pk
3. Triton 2.25 HP router

4. ...and I hate to admit it but the Craftsman Pro 28084


I have done a lot of searching and reading but I have not found any recent (2010-2011) reviews of these routers. The older reveiws might not take into consideration what is newer on the market now. If anyone has any links to anything newer please let me know.

Now as for the Craftsman.... I really do not want to like it but the kit looks so nice. It comes with three bases (plunge, fixed, and D-Handle), looks to include dust collection, above table adjustment, and is 2.25 hp. And the price is phenominal. $150 on sale.

I just have such doubts about Craftsman now. The price is so good with what bang you get for the buck it is so hard to ignore. Can someone talk me out of it? Please?  I am worried that Craftsman overstates the power of their tools. I am worried that I would get it and it won't be powerful enough and will not work with after market accessories like my old one. 

Are there any recent reviews of this router compared to other routers that are current?

I am sorry for so many questions. I just don't want to spend the $250 I have and have it be a mistake or spend too much if I don't need to. Any help is much much appreciated.


----------



## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

How sharp is your dovetail bit? It might be worth it to purchase a good quality carbide bit and try that first before you go chasing down another router. You'll still have a good bit when all's said and done, even if it doesn't improve the cut quality. I know that I can take a junky circular saw, put a good blade in it and get fantastic results, I am guessing the same will hold true for routers.


----------



## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Ron, if you have to have a different router then craigslist it, or eBay it, I have success with them, and I save a lot too.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Ron

Most on the forum know how I feel about the red top Craftsman routers but if you need more power you should step up to the pump and get a 3 1/4HP, many now days come with a lift built in 
You can get a Triton or a Freud in the 3 1/4HP range for about 300.oo but it's only one router motor with one base unlike the others you have listed..

By the way you don't need to put out 150.oo for one see link below...
http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/invent...=80128&sid=IAx20110411x000001&source=googleaf


http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/tools-woodworking/43995d1305741618-nail-guns-100_2117.jpg
========


brownsfn2 said:


> Hi. I am new to this forum. I am fairly new to wood working. I have owned a Craftsman router for about 10 years but have never really done too much with it until recently. I just made a router table for my first 'big' woodworking project and now I need a more powerful router for it. The router I have just seems to struggle with whatever I throw at it. I tried dovetails and it won't cut cleanly through at full depth of the dovetail bit. Really annoying.
> 
> There are several things that just have frustrated me to no end with my current Craftsman so I ruled out Craftsman from the start.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Never be sorry for asking questions here. Search the forum for router reviews. The people who have the Bosches, PCs, and Tritons rate them well. Dewalts have also been rated well. The people who have Craftsman are split. I am on the downside of the Craftsman power tools as well as Freud. By the way, every manufacturer lies about horsepower. Search about "Peak Horsepower vs Real Horsepower" if you are interested. If you are having problems with tearout, the router and bit are not necessarily the problem. Try using a sacrificial backer board behind your workpiece.
Craftsman is geared towards the hobbyist. The other brands you mentioned are geared towards hobbyist to light commercial. In the end it all boils down to warranty and whether you will use it enough to test the warranty. In Sear's defense, I have never had a problem with them honouring their warranties.


----------



## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Ron and welcome to the router forums, we are glad to have you join us.

I have the 2HP craftsman, along with a Ridgid 2900 and a DeWALT 618, I use the Craftsman in my dove tail jig with no problems. I have heard good reports on the ones you have mentioned. I would say pick one and don't look back.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The Makita 3612C has been discontinued but is a fine 3-1/4 hp plunge router. Renu Electric in Detroit quoted me $186 last week. This is a very good deal. Later this week I will post my review of my new Bosch MRC23EVSK. Think of it as a 1617 on steroids. LED work lights, right handle trigger switch, swivel connector on the power cord and a full 3" plunge depth.(I believe this is the most depth of any router available)


----------



## The Warthog (Nov 29, 2010)

_ recently took a look at a Craftsman router and am looking to buy one for my router table, as it is adjustable from on top, and powerful enough for most of my purposed. I am currently using a Mastercraft 12 amp router, but I would like to have a dedicated table router._


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

I use a Porter Cable 1-3/4hp router for dovetails & it handles it no problem. Maybe your current router is not operating at full capacity or the bit is dull. Must be something to it. If buying a router for the table I would prefer to get a 3-1/4hp so you are not limited.


----------



## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I second the thought about the router bit. I would make sure you have a good bit before buying a router. Otherwise you may end up buying a router and still have the same issues with the bit.

However, should you decide to upgrade, i have two Bosch 1617 router kits, and both are great. I would highly recommend the 1617.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

The Craftsman warranty is the best one you will find, Full warranty for 5 years, if you don't like the box it came in they will replace the router no questions asked how's that for 5 years.
The New Craftsman routers are just like the Bosch and the other ones you have listed if not better, I would stack them up with any router on the market and they would win..they are that good..  the ones on the down side of Craftsman are the ones that don't have one..or have not use..

The "Peak Horsepower vs Real Horsepower" item posted, you will need to take it with a grain of salt most of it is BS..I go with the guys that make the routers, if they say it's 2 1/4HP or a 3 1/4HP that's what it is.. In the states we go by HP and not watts..if I'm looking for light bulbs I look at the watt rating but not tools.. 


=========


----------



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback.

I narrowed this down to the BOSCH 1617 and the Craftsman 28084.

I was leaning toward the BOSCH because... well because the other one is called Craftsman. I realized how silly it seams that I would eliminate a choice because of a brand name and I know that Craftsman does not make their own tools. So I decided to keep them in the running.

I saw a reveiw in the October 2010 issue of Wood Magazine and their final analisys had the Craftsman model rated higher than the Bosch model by 2 points. The Bosch MRC23EVS was ranked the highest and the PC 895PK in second (both out of my range). The Triton was a couple of points behind the Craftsman as well.

So I realized that they are all pretty close. I am sure that the Bosch brand name has a better reputation and is spoke of very highly on several wood working forums.

Then I did a price search:

Bosch 1617EVSPK was $190 to $210
The Craftsman was $150

If I wanted to compare apples to apples then I need to add a D-Handle to the Bosch. That additional peice is $75. Also there is no dust collection included with the Bosch and to add it is around $20.

So the complete Bosch 1617EVSPK with the additional features that the Craftsman has is round $285.

Then in my search someone mentioned the Sears Outlet store. I found one listed at a store in my town for $90. I called the store. It has all of its peices and has never been used but for some reason was missing its manual.

So the Craftsman won. $90 is such a steal compared to $150 or even $285. I quickly located the user manual online so that is no longer an issue. Then I quickly ran to the store to pick it up before someone eles did. 

I will be trying it out tonight. I really hope that I am not sorry but at $90 with a year warranty and a return policy how could I go wrong? 

Thanks again for all the advice guys!!


----------



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Bob,

Where did you see a 5 year warranty? I looked online and I only see 1 year? Do you mean paying for an extended warranty?

Ron





bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> The Craftsman warranty is the best one you will find, Full warranty for 5 years, if you don't like the box it came in they will replace the router no questions asked how's that for 5 years.
> =========


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron


I have 4 of them but I got one more for 84.oo dollars the same as you, just could not pass on it  but I got the 5 year warranty for bit more money.. (15.oo)

http://www.searsoutlet.com/d/invent...=80128&sid=IAx20110411x000001&source=googleaf

========



brownsfn2 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> I narrowed this down to the BOSCH 1617 and the Craftsman 28084.
> 
> ...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron 

Must be when you check out the guy at the counter will ask if you want the 5 year plan..
That's when I got the low down on the plan, he said if the cardboard box is damage they replace it with a new router in the box with in the 5 years and I said sign me up.. 


======



brownsfn2 said:


> Bob,
> 
> Where did you see a 5 year warranty? I looked online and I only see 1 year? Do you mean paying for an extended warranty?
> 
> Ron


----------



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Do they let you do that on the clearance items? I wanted to get it but he said the item was clearance and I would only get the 1 year. Strange...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

Strange, yes, it's still new not a used item for resale..Strange  they are not putting the money out you are..

====



brownsfn2 said:


> Do they let you do that on the clearance items? I wanted to get it but he said the item was clearance and I would only get the 1 year. Strange...


----------



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Bob,

When you have ordered from the outlet store site in the past will the sears site or outlet store site ship it to you? How do you get them to do that?

Upon closer inspection I have found I am missing several parts so I am returning what my wife picked up for me and am looking for another one of these routers on clearance. Thanks again.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ron, many forum members are very happy with the Craftsman combo's, it is hard to beat the price. When you try to compare them against Bosch there is only one model that was close, the 27720? which was a 1617 clone in everything but the sub base plate. Sears put their junk plastic guide bushing system on it but the rest was pure Bosch. This is how Sears came in 2nd in overall ratings for 2-1/4 hp routers that year. Bosch bayonet style template guides were the quickest to change but the new Makita tool less style has more potential since they offer larger guide sizes.

PS: If you were getting a lot of fuzz while routing it could be caused by wet wood.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

Once the item is in (will call/pickup ) just call them and they will ship it for you.

Don't jump to quick on returning it, it's a clearance item and you maybe short a item or two (floor model) ,what item(s) are you missing..don't forget it's 260.oo router setup and you are getting a real deal..

The one I got was short the power cord, I just ordered one from Sears..for 15.oo bucks..but still a good deal.. 84.00 plus 15.oo ... by the way they didn't charge me for the UPS shipping// 19.31.. from CT. to Colorado..

=========



brownsfn2 said:


> Bob,
> 
> When you have ordered from the outlet store site in the past will the sears site or outlet store site ship it to you? How do you get them to do that?
> 
> Upon closer inspection I have found I am missing several parts so I am returning what my wife picked up for me and am looking for another one of these routers on clearance. Thanks again.


----------



## brownsfn2 (Mar 20, 2011)

Sorry but one more question... Is there any selection criteria you used when selecting the item from the outlet website? Price ranges from $50 to $140 and I want to pick a good one.  The last one I had to return because my wife did not check for everything (Heart was in the right place) and if I had to order the parts it would have been $75.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

For me it was the shipping, but I didn't know they would not charge for that..
Bottom line thing for me...


=========


brownsfn2 said:


> Sorry but one more question... Is there any selection criteria you used when selecting the item from the outlet website? Price ranges from $50 to $140 and I want to pick a good one.  The last one I had to return because my wife did not check for everything (Heart was in the right place) and if I had to order the parts it would have been $75.


----------



## stuartwatson (Jun 13, 2011)

take the bosch !
my work mate has the exact same and it seems to be able to cope with most of our jobs.
try it out bud
stuart 
england


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I was in Sears for the first time in ages and saw one of the new routers for $38. The parts it was missing made it undesireable for me but for someone like BJ who has a stable full of them it would be hard to beat. Try buying a replacement motor for $38.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Craftsman 17543 11 amp 2 hp Corded Fixed and Plunge Base Soft Start Router with Electronic Feedback : Sears Outlet

=========



Mike said:


> I was in Sears for the first time in ages and saw one of the new routers for $38. The parts it was missing made it undesireable for me but for someone like BJ who has a stable full of them it would be hard to beat. Try buying a replacement motor for $38.


----------



## stuartwatson (Jun 13, 2011)

covering mistakes is an art in its self buddy ! 
i know !ha ha 
stuart 
england


----------

