# Shop hack and question about table saws



## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Here's another hack from Serge. It's about how to get a nut started in tight quarters:
https://atelierdubricoleur.wordpres...corners-tenir-un-ecrou-dans-un-endroit-exigu/

In preparing to start my smaller shop in the basement, I'm planning to buy a smaller table saw that won't take up as much space as my big one in the garage. I've narrowed it down to 2 models. The Bosch 4100-09 and the Dewalt DWE7491RS.

They have pretty similar specs and price, and I think either would satisfy my needs quite well. The reason I'm leaning a little toward the Dewalt is that when looking at them in Lowe's, one thing I checked was the accuracy of the rip fence when you lock it in place. On both of them, I slid the fence all the way to the right, then quickly back to where the fence lined up with the miter slot. 

The Bosch still needed a little bumping to get it even with the slot front to back (it could have just needed adjustment), but the Dewalt seemed to be right on the money every time. The Bosch has the traditional "claw" on the rear of the fence to grab the guide rail, but the Dewalt has a slide that's pretty much like the slide bracket that's on the front (where the lock lever is). That issue is something that has caused me some consternation on my big saw, especially since my vision is fading fast.

Here are the links for both of them:
10" Jobsite Table Saw 32 - 1/2" (82.5cm) Rip Capacity, and a Rolling Stand - DWE7491RS | DEWALT
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/table-saws-4100-09-31813-p/

Has anyone here had experience with either of those saws, and have any advice? Thanks. Jim


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Jim...I had to make the same choice some time ago...I went for the 4100...

When the saw came in I went over all the alignments and carefully adjusted the fence, specifically to make sure the claw grabbed sharply in the back. I've never had an issue with the fence lining up precisely after moving it.

What I find ensures repeatable alignment each time is to move the fence by the square in the front, lightly press when lining it up to your mark and push down on the handle. Keeping the rail clean and waxed helps a lot...

(see my thread) http://www.routerforums.com/tool-reviews/72089-bosch-4100-house-unboxing.html and many other write-ups on the forum...use the Advanced Search tool...

Good luck


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think the Bosch is a better saw. Very well built, very reliable machine, good precision. Bosch also has superb customer service should you ever need it. They also have a model now with the instant blade stop if the blade contacts skin, and the mechanism doesn't destroy the blade either. Cost of the blade stop unit is more than double, but the precision is pure Bosch.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I had issues with one of those small saws not holding well enough on the back claw of the fence so I stuck a piece of self adhesive sandpaper on it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I had a chat with a woman buying a portable TS, at my local bldg. supply. She was pretty knowledgeable but hadn't done any research on TS choices.
I was praising the Bosch 4100, and in the process pulled the mitre guide out of it's holder and slipped it into the mitre slot. Much to my amazement and embarrassment it was a shockingly sloppy fit. Pulled it back out and looked at it...no means of adjusting for slop!
What are they thinking?!_ *red face*_


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Just to clarify...
https://www.boschtoolsservice.com/Order/IPL/IPLpdf.aspx?tn=0601B13010&mn=4100


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I had issues with one of those small saws not holding well enough on the back claw of the fence so I stuck a piece of self adhesive sandpaper on it.



...adjustable on the 4100...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

This was a Sears (I know, say no more). Even tightened I could still push on it and move it but the sandpaper stopped that.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

The DeWalt fence is better just as your in store test showed. Its a toothed mechanism. Still knowing that 15 years ago I bought Bosch because of the stand. Last year I was shopping for my son. Fence difference the same but like Dan said the miter slop is embarrassing.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The miter slot on that Sears saw was like that too and because of the design you couldn't switch it with an aftermarket. Without breaking some of the casting off the edges of the groove you couldn't even switch it out with a home made wooden runner.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Not had any problems with my dewalt which is very much like the one you indicated. The difference in the UK is the start/stop switch and the blade guard are different.

Keeping the fence square is not an issue as it is rack and pinion like Bill (paduke) said.

Mine was sold seperate to the rolling stand but due to small size of my workshop I'm looking to replace that with a stand that is the same footpirnt as the TS itself. The ends of the rolling stand stick out too much for my liking, I'm not likely to take it anywhere and it's always 'up' and ready.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

> The miter slot on that Sears saw was like that too and because of the design you couldn't switch it with an aftermarket. Without breaking some of the casting off the edges of the groove you couldn't even switch it out with a home made wooden runner.


That's Sears for you.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Tipsy*



vindaloo said:


> Not had any problems with my dewalt which is very much like the one you indicated. The difference in the UK is the start/stop switch and the blade guard are different.
> 
> Keeping the fence square is not an issue as it is rack and pinion like Bill (paduke) said.
> 
> Mine was sold seperate to the rolling stand but due to small size of my workshop I'm looking to replace that with a stand that is the same footpirnt as the TS itself. The ends of the rolling stand stick out too much for my liking, I'm not likely to take it anywhere and it's always 'up' and ready.


Angie; I understand what you're saying, but the *mass of the saw* is up high and when you add weight off to either side at tabletop ht. (a 10' 2x6 piece of oak for example) the added mass off to the side adds leverage, forcing the saw to tip sideways. That splayed stand design adds a lot of stability!


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## cmoraza (Mar 25, 2015)

Hi Jim,

Both are excellent table saws, but for me the Rack & Pinion Telescoping Fence System is what really differentiates the DeWALT from the Bosch. Cheers.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have the slightly smaller DWE480 model. I really like the rack and pinion adjustment on the fence. I wish my Grizzly had that. Dust port shoots the sawdust out and a shop vac hooks up nicely.

I have an Incra miter gauge that I use on the Grizzly. A quick adjustment and it works just as well on the DeWalt.

One drawback is the stand. I take the saw off the stand when I transport it. I think the Bosch loads as a unit and that would be a plus.

Something else to consider is the short arbor on the DeWalt. No room to use a dado stack. However, I did manage to safely install 2 circular saw blades and a shim to cut dadoes in drawer pieces. There isn't enough threads left to install a regular dado stack. See pic attached.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I borrowed a friend's Dewalt portable table saw, one of the yellow ones. It was handy to move but it ran out of power trying rip long boards. I had to run slow. My old Delta 9 inch Contractor table saw had a lot more power than the Dewalt. I think you are buying portability. Don't expect the little table saws to match the cutting power of the bigger table saws. And the after market fences for the larger table saws are much better than the portable table saws fences.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

coxhaus said:


> I borrowed a friend's Dewalt portable table saw, one of the yellow ones. It was handy to move but it ran out of power trying rip long boards. I had to run slow. My old Delta 9 inch Contractor table saw had a lot more power than the Dewalt. I think you are buying portability. Don't expect the little table saws to match the cutting power of the bigger table saws. And the after market fences for the larger table saws are much better than the portable table saws fences.


Lee you are talking two different animals. I own a Bosch. Its out in the garage not in the shop. For onsite job use either saw are gold standard In my shop I have and old craftsman contractor saw. I offer the follow ing comparisons
1 I hate how the bench top saws sound.
2. Out of the box the blade/fence/miter slot alignment is spot on with the bench tops.
3. Bench tops have less power and need thin kerf blades.
4. Cabinet saw has more power than contractor saw but with with a sharp blade full depth cut contractor saw is pretty good,
5. The best value for the DIY types is a used contractor delta/craftsman and buy Woodpeckers | Saw Gauge (SG-WP) to align the blade trundle and a good fence total TS=100 to 150 craigslist fence under 300 :gauge 70 and you will be as good as the high dollar saws for around 520 just a little more than a bench top.


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## David Dickson (Oct 30, 2015)

*Mitre Guide Slop*



DaninVan said:


> I had a chat with a woman buying a portable TS, at my local bldg. supply. She was pretty knowledgeable but hadn't done any research on TS choices.
> I was praising the Bosch 4100, and in the process pulled the mitre guide out of it's holder and slipped it into the mitre slot. Much to my amazement and embarrassment it was a shockingly sloppy fit. Pulled it back out and looked at it...no means of adjusting for slop!
> What are they thinking?!_ *red face*_


Yes. There is a bit of slop, and yes, there is no way of adjusting for it. Plus it is a non-standard width (5/8"), so finding an after-market mitre guide is quite a challenge.

But having said that, you can always push the mitre guide sideways (against one side of the slot) as you push it forwards.

I have the GTS 10 XC, which is the European cousin of the 4100-09, and I couldn't be happier with it. Brilliant bit of kit.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I made a wooden miter runner that was a little bit skinny and fixed it by applyng a layer of aluminum duct tape. Not the fabric tape, but the aluminum, reflective tape. Added very little thickness, but enough for a tight fit, and robust enough to last awhile.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

_From Mike: "Something else to consider is the short arbor on the DeWalt. No room to use a dado stack. However, I did manage to safely install 2 circular saw blades and a shim to cut dadoes in drawer pieces. There isn't enough threads left to install a regular dado stack. "_

Thank you so much for this, Mike. I wasn't able to get to the arbor to look at it in the store for that exact issue, and hadn't yet checked around about it. That's the worst drawback about my other table saw in my garage, and it probably is a deal breaker for me on the DeWalt. Thanks for saving me a lot of trouble, and maybe a big disappointment. Jim


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

David; a possible fix might be to drill and tap one side of the mitre bar and insert those nylon setscrews(?)...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Pla...n-set-screws-M3-6-8-10-12-15/32447087410.html
$6 ea sounds pretty outrageous; there must be less expensive alternatives.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

You can use a punch on the side bar. It will sometimes take the slack out. If it is close.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have the Bosch 4100, Not had any problems with it doing anything asked of it. The fence was accurate enough for me right out of the box, I have the digital fence gauge and love it. The extensions both ways for the table are fast and easy to extend and retract. I can ,and have used a full 3/4" stack of dado cutters on it, plenty of power, soft start with I like.
I did like Angie and got rid of the portable stand as it never leaves the shop and takes up too much space for permanent mounting. I made a cabinet to set it on and the top acts as part of the dust control. Also sealed off the back so the DC sucks out the dust from the whole inside of the saw. The cabinet is on 3" soft casters and moves around easily.
Herb
The first picture is the cabinet alongside the saw, couldn't find a way to delete it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb; the mitre gauge, not the rip fence (in case anyone misunderstood which 'fence' I was referring to).
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Table-Replacement-Miter-Assembly-2610950149/dp/B002ENMUT0


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## chuckgray (Aug 2, 2015)

chessnut2 said:


> _From Mike: "Something else to consider is the short arbor on the DeWalt. No room to use a dado stack. However, I did manage to safely install 2 circular saw blades and a shim to cut dadoes in drawer pieces. There isn't enough threads left to install a regular dado stack. "_
> 
> Thank you so much for this, Mike. I wasn't able to get to the arbor to look at it in the store for that exact issue, and hadn't yet checked around about it. That's the worst drawback about my other table saw in my garage, and it probably is a deal breaker for me on the DeWalt. Thanks for saving me a lot of trouble, and maybe a big disappointment. Jim


Mike, the Dewalt 7491RS will accept a 13/16" dado stack, same as the Bosch 4100. Good saw....


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

David Dickson said:


> Yes. There is a bit of slop, and yes, there is no way of adjusting for it. *Plus it is a non-standard width (5/8")*, so finding an after-market mitre guide is quite a challenge.
> 
> But having said that, you can always push the mitre guide sideways (against one side of the slot) as you push it forwards.
> 
> I have the GTS 10 XC, which is the European cousin of the 4100-09, and I couldn't be happier with it. Brilliant bit of kit.



Sorry, David...the 4100 has a miter slot just slightly bigger than 3/4"...it is not a 5/8" slot...don't know about the European version. (don't want to mislead anybody)


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*What's a 1/16" more or less*



Nickp said:


> Sorry, David...the 4100 has a miter slot just slightly bigger than 3/4"...it is not a 5/8" slot...don't know about the European version. (don't want to mislead anybody)


It's like someone in Product Development missed a planning meeting... :nerd:


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

@ David Dickson

David, the same European model is available in South Africa, but the Bosch establishment is not as sharp as that in the USA (miniscule market by comparison). I am in the downsizing planning stage, contemplating ditching my trusty Radial Arm saw of 40 yrs for a table saw and mitre saw. I have had three different answersw from dealers here: can your saw take a dado blade stack? If not, how about that nifty Freud set of two blades that can be fitted to give two different kerf widths, for box joints?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Most, if not all, of these smaller saws seem to have short arbors, so using a full width dado stack is not possible. On some you can't even stack part of a dado set before there aren't enough exposed threads on the end of the arbor to get the nut safely attached. 

The miter slots on some saws are also not the standard 3/4 X 3/8", being either slightly over size or an entirely different size. I know of two DeWalt saw users who discovered the problems with the oversize miter slots on their DeWalt saws after they had purchased Incra I-Box jigs. You really need a good fit on the miter bar to slot when using one of these jigs, or most other jigs that require the use of the miter slot on the table saw. 

Then there are the fence issues with many of them. A fence that does not lock down parallel with the saw blade and is easy to move when you want to, makes the saw near useless for doing any quality woodworking. 

I doubt that I will be very happy when I finally have to downsize and sell my Unisaw with it's 3 hp motor and Unifence with the digital fence readout. It took me too many years of suffering with inadequate table saws to ever want to go back to using one of them again. Why can't saw manufacturers offer saws with good accurate features in a smaller size saw? I thought DeWalt had finally produced one, until I started hearing about the oversize miter slots and short arbors. I have no experience with the Bosch portable saws, but I will likely need to be looking at them or others very soon for my not so distant downsizing needs. Have they met all three of these requirements, or are they just another "not quite adequate" table saw? I can do without the 3 hp motor and even the inadequate arbor length, but not the miter slot and fence issues that are so common in these smaller saws.

Charley
Charley


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

CharleyL said:


> ...I will likely need to be looking at them or others very soon for my not so distant downsizing needs. Have they met all three of these requirements, or are they just another "not quite adequate" table saw? I can do without the 3 hp motor and even the inadequate arbor length, but not the miter slot and fence issues that are so common in these smaller saws.
> 
> Charley
> Charley


This is a pretty old string, but interesting. I'd consider a hybrid saw. I have a Laguna 10 inch that has a 110v motor of 1 3/4 hp that is quite light. Grizzly and a couple of other makers produce similar saws of the hybrid type at a lower price. My Laguna is very flat, has 3/4 slots and a better than average fence. And you can order it with either a 36 or 54 inch capacity. 

But no matter what you get (I'd go for the Bosch), it is all about setting the saw up properly. The display model of most saws is not set up properly, and sometimes they don't straighten and tighten up the lateral adjustment on the fence so it is loose. And customers jigger and fiddle with the display model, which probably explains the difference. At my local Lowes, the 4100 fence is tight and moves properly, so it just might be a difference in the display model. Given a choice between DeWalt and Bosch, I nearly always choose Bosch.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

chessnut2 said:


> Has anyone here had experience with either of those saws, and have any advice? Thanks. Jim


Both...
once adjusted the Bosch is always there...
after a while the DW needs repairs.. a decade later the Bosch doesn't....
Sam and Tom owned the the DW's... after using mine they sold theirs and purchased 4100's..
@Nickp did a very nice write up on his...
CS/TS for Bosch shames DW...
Bosch is way more enduring...
parts aren't an issue down the road like they are w/ DW...

have you looked to CPO???
reconditioned is a no worries...
https://www.cpooutlets.com/factory-...orksite-table-saw/bshr4100-rt,default,pd.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Much to my amazement and embarrassment it was a shockingly sloppy fit. Pulled it back out and looked at it...no means of adjusting for slop!
> What are they thinking?!_ *red face*_


I put either an old delta or newer Incra miters on my 4100's...
any slop is fixed w/ layer of UHMW tape on the side of the miter's rail for a forever done deal...


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