# Wiring Question



## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

First of all, I know less than nothing about wiring and electricity in general. My garage was wired using Hubbell Twistlock receptacles. I have need of a 6' - 8' extension cord for my Contractor saw. I know that there is a standard for each color wire, but does it matter on an extension cord, as long as same color wire goes to the same lug on each end ?

Thanks....Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Gary. Yes, colour coding matters. All the time.
Black wire to brass screw, white wire to silver screw,_ and green (or bare)wire to green ground screw._
Say you have a 100' cable, and you need to cut into it somewhere in it's length ...to repair or add a device, a switch say...if the colour code isn't followed religiously how would you know what to connect to what at the intersection? In a light fixture, for example, the brass screw ...the hot wire always goes to the bottom of the socket! If you hooked it up to the silver screw you'd be sending electricity to the threaded shell; potentially letal if you're up on a ladder for example.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks Dan ! I am printing out your reply so I can use that to do it right.



Gary


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

It looks like with the Hubell twistlock plug, it is Brass, Brass, Green for the screw colors. So I will need to be careful to get the wires to the same screws.



Gary


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Dan is exactly right. The black wire is the "hot" wire while the white is the neutral. Green is an earth ground, meaning is most likely connected to a ground rod or a metallic water pipe somewhere near the meter. You should not be able to measure the line voltage between the white and green (or bare copper) wires. The wire colors must be matched exactly all the way from the source (typically a wall socket) to the load (a lamp, a motor, a tool, etc.). Mixing up the wire colors presents a potentially dangerous situation.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Gary, use the following as your wiring guide for a Hubbel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector#/media/File:NEMA_simplified_pins.svg 

The upper left hand picture for L5-15 is the correct one for your application. It shows the receptacle (socket) side. For the plug, reverse the black and white so they'll connect correctly...black to black, white to white, etc.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If the the saw is 220 volt then it`s best if your extension has a red and black and green. There is no neutral wire in that situation. It isn`t always possible to find stranded wire in those color codes, you may only be able to find black, white, and green. In that case both white and black are live conductors and green is ground (always, no exceptions on that color). 

There are cases in house wiring where both white and black wires are live such as when the power feed to a light goes to the light receptacle first and then to a switch. The power goes from the light to the switch and comes back to the light also hot when the switch is turned on. Some inspectors I`ve dealt with like to see the white wire wrapped at the ends with either black or red electrical tape so that anyone looking at it will realize that it is not a neutral wire. You could do the same if necessary with your extension cord if it`s 220 and you can`t find red, black, and green in a flex cord.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Just so I am being clear. The ends are a HBL 2321 and a HBL 2323. The difference as far as I can see from the NEMA is that the ground is turned in a different direction, which I am assuming really doesn't matter. I guess they are sort of similar to the NEMA L5-20.


Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*deleted/duplicated*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

This is the reason they started producing NMD90 Electric Heating cable. It contains a Red, a Black, and a Green wire. It's specifically for 220V wiring, ie no Neutral (White).
The outer sheath is Red so it's clearly indicated as a dedicated electric htg. cct.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I wondered where that went...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

$20 *EACH! *

Hubbell Wiring Device-Kellems - HBL2321 - Brass Steel Nylon Nylon 0.360 to 0.930 in. 250 VAC 20 A Electrical Plug - Allied Electronics

Holy Hanna!!


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I think the amazon price is cheaper. I paid $17. But it seems like the price is down to around $8 right now.

https://www.amazon.com/HBL2321-Hubb...e=UTF8&qid=1469741518&sr=8-1&keywords=hbl2321


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

instead of making an extension cord lengthen the cord on the saw...
cheaper and no cord caps laying on the floor to fall over...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

LOL, you know Stick that is a most excellent suggestion and one that had not occurred to me. It really makes sense. I am definitely shaking my head at myself on this one.



Gary


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

and do yourself a favor and step the wire gauge up a notch or two if it isn't already #12...
get yourself an assortment of shrink tube in colors..
you can change all of the color on an exposed conductor and remove doubt...
way way better than tape and then some..

2:1 Heat Shrink Kits for wire insulation - CableOrganizer.com

Black - power...
Red - power...
Blue - power...
yellow - lighting...
Orange - switch..
Green - ground..
Clear - insulation repair.. (shows damaged insulation has been repaired)...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Is #12 what I should use or is #10 better ? I am not really worried about the cost since it isn't all that long of a cable. Just to be clear, that would be 12/2 rather than 12/3...right ?



Gary


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

OK, it would seem that I should use 12/3 wire, but my question is...do I ignore the bare copper wire ?


Thanks.....Gary


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Is #12 what I should use or is #10 better ? I am not really worried about the cost since it isn't all that long of a cable. Just to be clear, that would be 12/2 rather than 12/3...right ?
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


#10 is better...
#12 is plenty unless you are really going for a long cord...

if you think 10 feet of cord is plenty...
use 15 feet...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

On the bare copper... it would always go an a piece of machinery. There is an exception; if something like a corded hand tool is designed as a DOUBLE INSULATED tool, it will come factory equipped with a 2-wire cord/ no ground. It'll have a moulded plug and isn't supposed to be tampered with. We all do it anyways. 
The proper designation for a cable is *gauge of cable/number of conductors/ ground wire (or not) ie #12/2/1* ...12 ga x 2 conductors and with a ground wire. 
We had this discussion here a while back. The conductors are designed to conduct electricity_ within a cct._ The ground wire is technically not a 'conductor' and shouldn't be part of the cct. It's a safety device.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> OK, it would seem that I should use 12/3 wire, but my question is...do I ignore the bare copper wire ?
> 
> 
> Thanks.....Gary


12/2 = one black. one white wire..
12/2 w/G - add a green wire...
12/3 - add a red...
12/3 w/G - add a green...

The moment I read *""BARE COPPER""* all of the *alarm bells went off*...
if you have a bare copper wire is more than likely that you are trying to use (or plan on) ordinary household wire/cable as in in a NM type for non-exposed locations as in installed in walls...
*THAT IS THE WRONG WIRE FOR YOU TO USE....*
and it's mechanical protection really sucks...
*PLEASE DON'T DO IT...*

use machine cord/cable (Portable Power Cables/ SO Cord / SJ Cord / SOW Cord / Hard Usage Cord) as it was designed to be used..
like you are *SUPPOSE* to use...
like you are *GOING* to use
there aren't any allowed alternatives short of hard wiring..

SO Cords|SO Cables|Four Conductor Cable|4 wire power cable|SJ Cord|SOW Cable|Type W Cable


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> On the bare copper... it would always go an a piece of machinery. There is an exception; if something like a corded hand tool is designed as a DOUBLE INSULATED tool, it will come factory equipped with a 2-wire cord/ no ground. It'll have a moulded plug and isn't supposed to be tampered with. We all do it anyways.
> The proper designation for a cable is *gauge of cable/number of conductors/ ground wire (or not) ie #12/2/1* ...12 ga x 2 conductors and with a ground wire.
> We had this discussion here a while back. The conductors are designed to conduct electricity_ within a cct._ The ground wire is technically not a 'conductor' and shouldn't be part of the cct. It's a safety device.



Dan...
machine cord hasn't got bare copper wire in it...
NM, MC or BX does...

FWIW...
most any real extension cord is machine cord...
and 600V jackets offer way more mechanical protection than a 300V casings..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Gary...
FWIW...
I keep an assortment of outdoor flexible extension cords on hand in 16~12GA in 10, 15, and 25' lengths...

power tool cords that need replacing get an extension cord instead. of an OEM cord..
cut the female end off and install the new cord...
long tool cords sure are nice...
for stationary tools I have bulk machine cord...
rubber jackets mark everything up w/ black streaks... (drag/rub one over/on your project and tell us what you think)...
PVC is stiff and kinky... uncooperative..
SJEOW is major tough, lay flat, co curls. non-marking and flexible cordage that works w/ you...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

gjackson52 said:


> It looks like with the Hubell twistlock plug, it is Brass, Brass, Green for the screw colors. So I will need to be careful to get the wires to the same screws.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


It's easy to remember, Gary. Brass and Copper are similar; the white insulation goes with the silver, and green to green.

It's like Port and Starboard. *Port* is a *red* wine.
Red is also associated with communism ie the left.
Glad I could help!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Gary my 3hp Unisaw is wired with 12/2 but I used BX cable (armored) because it's where I can walk on it, or drop something on it. Mine is a pretty short run. There is only about 15' of wire from the saw to the panel.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Stick - I just did a google search on #12/3 wire. It showed an example with 3 insulated wires, black white and green, and a bare copper wire. So from that I had figured that was how the wire normally was made. I haven't purchased any wire yet. I will probably do that tomorrow.


Thanks....Gary


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Stick - I just did a google search on #12/3 wire. It showed an example with 3 insulated wires, black white and green, and a bare copper wire. So from that I had figured that was how the wire normally was made. I haven't purchased any wire yet. I will probably do that tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Thanks....Gary


think extension cord tpe/style/look alike and no bare copper...
SO Cords|SO Cables|Four Conductor Cable|4 wire power cable|SJ Cord|SOW Cable|Type W Cable


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Got it...thanks again Stick !!


Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*A Mystery*



gjackson52 said:


> Stick - I just did a google search on #12/3 wire. It showed an example with 3 insulated wires, black white and green, and a bare copper wire. So from that I had figured that was how the wire normally was made. I haven't purchased any wire yet. I will probably do that tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Thanks....Gary


Two ground wires? ???? Can you post the link, Gary?
That's pretty strange; some kind of audio visual or communication wiring?
And from what you described, that's 12/2/2
Only the Blk and the Wht are counted as conductors. If there was a third conductor (the Grn) it'd be Red insulated.
SJ Cord/SO Cord/SO Cable/Multiconductor Cable/Four Conductor Cable/4 wire power cable


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

If it was me I would buy 10 ga for 110 volt and 12 ga for 220 volt. 110 volt is easy just buy a good extension cord and cut the female end off. 220 volt will probably require you to buy wire and a plug. 110 volt runs twice the amps as 220 volts so you need heavier wire for 110.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

You knew enough to ask for advice on electricity. That's the important thing. My son uses the phrase "white on bright" for remembering which wires to connect to which screws.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Two ground wires? ???? Can you post the link, Gary?
> That's pretty strange; some kind of audio visual or communication wiring?
> And from what you described, that's 12/2/2
> Only the Blk and the Wht are counted as conductors. If there was a third conductor (the Grn) it'd be Red insulated.
> SJ Cord/SO Cord/SO Cable/Multiconductor Cable/Four Conductor Cable/4 wire power cable


Now that I am looking for something specific, I can't find the links I was seeing yesterday. lol. while this isn't it, and is the wrong gauge, it is similar to what I was seeing yesterday.


https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....gauge-63-nmwu-63-black---150m.1000127943.html


Gary


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Now that I am looking for something specific, I can't find the links I was seeing yesterday. lol. while this isn't it, and is the wrong gauge, it is similar to what I was seeing yesterday.
> 
> 
> https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....gauge-63-nmwu-63-black---150m.1000127943.html
> ...


Gary...
*
NO... NO... BUT HELL NO!!!!!*

you want the same cord/cable that extension cords are made of...


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

One thing I've observed when making an extension cord from scratch, is each plug screw color layout (Brass,Silver,Green) are laid out for a specific end of the cord. When you have it right, the wires color goes straight into the plug (Lining up with each colored screw). When you have it wrong, the wires must be crossed inside the plug...making it more difficult to insert the wires into the plug.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

push come to shove.. buy a really 12/2 or 10/2 w/GRN quality extension cord..
cut the ends off...
change the white wire to red...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I was just out in the garage looking at the saw. Powermatic doesn't make it easy. The power cord goes through the side in a grommet and snakes its way to the front of the saw to the switch, comes back goes through the side of the saw again and is routed to the motor. So I am thinking that if I am going to extend the cord, I would have to disconnect at the power switch and and go from there. Given my poor eyesight and lack of dexterity, I think I am back to the short extension cord idea. My goal is to not have to move the saw anymore, so tripping on the connectors or cord isn't an issue. Just reaching to the receptacle  

Stick, I understand what you are telling me and I am not buying that type of wire. I just posted that link to show what was confusing me earlier. I think your suggestion of buying a workable extension cord and replacing the ends is probably the quickest, easiest and most doable suggestion at this point. Sooo....Home Depot here I come LOL

Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> Gary...
> *
> NO... NO... BUT HELL NO!!!!!*
> 
> you want the same cord/cable that extension cords are made of...


LOL! Relax, Stick; that stuff was $1,800/150M...I'm guessing Gary was just window shopping 
BUT, from that same link, "6 AWG NMWU includes 3 copper wires and *one ground wire*..."
Not only that but the product being sold is _stranded wire_, the illustration is _solid_ conductor...and the 'artist' took liberties with the colour code as well.
On the bright side, there'd be no issues with voltage drop! :grin:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

gjackson52 said:


> Now that I am looking for something specific, I can't find the links I was seeing yesterday. lol. while this isn't it, and is the wrong gauge, it is similar to what I was seeing yesterday.
> 
> 
> https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p....gauge-63-nmwu-63-black---150m.1000127943.html
> ...


It has the wrong type of insulation on the sheath and is the wrong temperature range. Underground wire is rated at 60*C and you have to use 90*C rated wire for above ground and in walls. While code does allow extension cords going across a floor or any other open space, anything that is hard wired has to have armored protection. My unisaw doesn't move so hard wired was the answer for me but if you plan on moving yours from time to time then an extension cord will have to do unless you are only moving a few feet.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I've done a fair amount of 120 v wiring over the years. The codes are very specific so at least get a book on the topic before you do much that will be inside walls. Good discussion of 220 wiring.

When I wired my shed, I had 3 - 20 amp circuits. To avoid overloading and to keep the alternating wall plugs sorted out, I wrapped a different color electrical tape on each circuit's wires, then put the appropriate color tape on each of the outlets. This lets me avoid putting two high amp tools on the same circuit. There are two breakers on each circuit One on the main panel, a second for each circuit on the sub panel. I offer this color coding idea as a tactic for anyone adding circuits to their shop.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

If you are going to use an extension cord for 220 volt buy some red electrical tape to wrap around on the white wire to show it is a power leg instead of a neutral wire. 

I agree I think you will extend the wire from the switch to the wall unless you have a low voltage switch with a mag starter. The wire to the motor will not need to be replaced unless it is bad.

What voltage is your motor wired for now? Are you changing voltages? I guess you know the wiring diagram is on the motor for the different voltages. If you change from 110 to 230 you will need to change the motor wires around for the new voltage.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

take the cord you have now and pot a junction box mounted on the outside of the saw chassis...
run your power cord from there...

Step-by-Step Tutorial for Installing a New Junction Box
Geeks On Home: How to Wire an Electrical Box

and there is YouTube...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

coxhaus said:


> If you are going to use an extension cord for 220 volt buy some red electrical tape to wrap around on the white wire to show it is a power leg instead of a neutral wire.
> 
> I agree I think you will extend the wire from the switch to the wall unless you have a low voltage switch with a mag starter. The wire to the motor will not need to be replaced unless it is bad.
> 
> What voltage is your motor wired for now? Are you changing voltages? I guess you know the wiring diagram is on the motor for the different voltages. If you change from 110 to 230 you will need to change the motor wires around for the new voltage.


The saw is currently wired for 220V. I had the electrician rewire the motor when he put in the sub panel in the garage. I had everything that could be converted to 220V changed over at that time. I also had some 220V receptacles installed. The electrician suggested that I use twistlock plugs and receptacles so that is why it was done that way. I do like them, but they do add another layer of complexity when making changes. How this all started out is that the power cord from the saw to the receptacle is a couple feet short if I put the saw where I want to place it. I am tired of having to move it every time I am going to do anything with it. Getting lazy in my old age I guess. 


Gary


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Either do what stick said and cut the wire outside the saw add a box then add longer wire, then transfer plug. I hate stripping big wire so the box adds more wire stripping to this process so it would be my least favorite option.

Otherwise trace wall wire down to the wire nuts and replace with a longer wire to the wire nuts and then transfer plug.

I am assuming since you had twist plugs added by an electrician they can be moved to the longer wire.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I am going to research the junction box idea that Stick mentioned. Sounds like it could work. Yes, the twist plug can be moved, I have already visually verified that.



Gary


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

go w/ weather proof and saw dust will never be an issue...
use a metal box, (also called a Bell Box), blank cover and cord grip/strin relief..
some choices...

Bell 1 Gang Weatherproof Box with Three 1/2 in. Outlets-5320-0B - The Home Depot
Bell 2 Gang Weatherproof Box with Five 1/2 in. Outlets-5337-0B - The Home Depot

Halex 3/4 in. ACC Non-Metallic Strain Relief Cord Connector-27697 - The Home Depot

Bell 2 Gang Weatherproof Blank Cover-5175-0B - The Home Depot
Commercial Electric 1 Gang Weatherproof Blank Cover-5173-2B - The Home Depot


put the box on the saw chassis right over the top of grommeted wire pass through and drop the new wire out of the bottom 0f box..
plug any unused holes..
those cord grip strain reliefs are sized to fit the cable so pick the right one...
pay attention to what box hole size you are using as in ½ or ¾''... everything has to match...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Thank for the links Stick, that helps a lot !!



Gary


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## CM1 (Mar 3, 2016)

gjackson52. I have wired many shops, appliances and motor circuits being a Stationary Engineer. Both single the three phase 220VAC, 230VAC, 240VAC, 208VAC, 277VAC(mostly lighting and control circuit) I have also done 460VAC (both single phase and three phase), 660VAC to 1000VAC. To also include DC voltage to 1000VDC. 

I will assume and I don't like to assume that your shop or Garage is wired 220VAC/240VAC residential single phase(If you are on a three phase circuit that changes things) . That being said you are on a single phase 220VAC circuit. With Hubble outlets and cord caps on your tool cords. The twist locks are great keeps the cords locked into the wall outlet /receptacle. If this is your setup all you need is SO Cable cut to the length that you want your cord to be to include what wiring is necessary inside of the saw's factory connection point. Use this option as a full cord replacement. 

Best approach to this issue would be ( I am assuming here)(that your saw already has a cord cap with the twist lock on it. HBL2123 Use 1 each HBL2123 cord cap male to 1 each HBL2323 female cord cap (L6-20)or(2P3W) with SO cable rated at 20 ampere as an extension for the saw's cord. Be sure the SO cable has the ampere rating that you need to properly power your saw at the 220VAC data plate rating. 
_*Note the L5-20 is for a 20 amp rated 125VAC circuit.
*_
The SO cable needs to be 2 wire with ground rated at 20 amps( three wires total inside the cable sheath). You can get it in various sizes and sheath colors IE. Black, Yellow, Orange and internal wire combos IE black/white/green wire color on the insulation or Black, Red, Green wire color on the insulation. The green wire will always go to green terminal (if older cord cap then to the terminal with the 90' bend.) If you use SO cable with white and black to either wire, one each to the other two terminals as it is a 220VAC circuit. Technical drawing on Hubble's web site shows the lay out for hbl2323 as G, X, Y. G being the terminal with the 90' bend that is your ground. you can land either hot on the x or the y terminals being 220VAC. If it is being used as a 125VAC twist lock then ground to green (G terminal with 90' bend) 
http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/CustomerDrawingLibraryAssets/3A/1/M7897.pdf

http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/CustomerDrawingLibraryAssets/3A/1/M7901.pdf

*http://ecatalog.hubbell-wiring.com/productinformation/CustomerDrawingLibraryAssets/3A/3/PD1651.pdf ( this link is for install instructions if the screw is brass or black then it is for a hot wire or non grounded conductor) The white or neutral wire is considered a grounded conductor because it and the ground share the same bus bar / neutral grounding bar in the circuit breaker box. Unless it is a dedicated ground that does not share the neutral bar.) 
* 

Any question you can send me a private message I will walk you through install if needed. 
Sorry for the long post but to many people get hurt by not fully understanding the dangers associated with electrical wiring.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Thank you for the great post Jack, that was very helpful !



Gary


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

So I guess if you are looking for 20 amp wire it will be 12 ga wire. Is this correct? I am no electrician but I muddle my way through with these old power tools.

I guess my old Unisaw I just connected is maybe not quite up to specs. The motor pulls 22 amps at 220 volts. It has 10 ga wire. The plug on it originally when I bought it was a 20 amp 220 volt plug. I had no room in my breaker box for a new 220 volt circuit, all full up. I changed the plug to a 50 amp welding plug because I already had the circuit installed for my welder. I only plug my saw in when I am going to use it. It runs well. Is this a bad thing to do?


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

If I am understanding correctly...you are running your saw on a 50 amp circuit ? If so, I would think that isn't a great idea. But I am sure someone with more knowledge than myself will answer.



Gary


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Gary; that's not quite what Lee said. He said he was changing the cord components to 50AMP, he didn't say he'd switched the breaker to a 50.
If he did then I'd agree that he's lost the fast overload protection. If not then he's got really skookum cord and connectors...that's a good thing.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You're right, Gary, I'm wrong!
I re-read Lee's comment and he _is_ using the welder cct. 
Naughty, Lee! You could put an el cheapo 30Amp fuse into the cct., to protect the motor(?).


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> You're right, Gary, I'm wrong!
> I re-read Lee's comment and he _is_ using the welder cct.
> Naughty, Lee! You could put an el cheapo 30Amp fuse into the cct., to protect the motor(?).


What is cct? I am not sure what you mean.

I just bought a old MiniMax S45 18 inch bandsaw. It has a 2 HP motor wired for 220 volt with a twist plug which does not match anything I have. I can't just change the plug because the cord is too short. So now I need a real solution. I don't know if there is a way to use a welding plug and have a smaller breaker in an extension cord. I wonder what code would be to solve this problem


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry, Lee. "cct" is the abbreviation for circuit. Bad habit of mine.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lee; as long as the cord, motor, and breaker are matched for Amp. rating, the plug will work; it's a higher rating than you require. The problem is of course that someone can plug a welder in that requires a _higher_ Amperage supply and breaker.
So, the short answer is buy the appropriately configured plugs and receptacles for your specific need. 
NEMA Plug and Receptacle Configurations


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

A 2 pole 15 amp circuit should be enough for that. Without going out to look I'm pretty sure that's what I have on mine. A 20 amp circuit would also be good. Code does not allow load sharing on circuits like this. In other words , the breaker has to be dedicated to that machine. You could power it with an extension cord and then unplug the BS and plug something else in. Dan is correct, code says the cord (minimum allowable size, bigger is okay), plug in, receptacle, and breaker all have to be a match. A cord with plug in is okay, but if the machine is hard wired the wire has to have an armored exterior to protect it from mechanical damage.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

So is there a way to build an extension cord which can plug into a shared welding plug to run my 220 volt 20 amp bandsaw? I don't have any room in my current breaker box for more circuits.

By shared plug I mean plug one device at a time into the plug. Run welder plug welder in and unplug other tool. Run table saw plug table saw in and unplug other tool. Run bandsaw plug bandsaw in and unplug other tool.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No. At least not safely, and not according to the code.
What you _can_ do is buy another smaller distribution panel and swap the 50A breaker for say a 60A or70A and wire (have someone do it for you) the new one in as a sub-panel off the original.
For all the trouble I'd make it at least a 12 space (cct) panel, _without a main breaker_.
Something like this:
Square D Homeline 125 Amp 12-Space 24-Circuit Indoor Main Plug-On Neutral Lug Load Center with Cover - Value Pack-HOM1224L125PGCVP - The Home Depot

I know the picture shows it with a main breaker knockout in the cover but it's just because they use a universal cover on the panel...no main breaker on this panel. 

Is the existing panel easily accessible?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I would go with what Dan is suggesting Lee. When you run out of slots putting in a sub panel is the best policy. It will also shorten runs if let's say you had a bunch of long wires headed to the garage where your machines are. What you are suggesting, plugging and unplugging, is a PITA after a while not to mention the mismatches between wires and motor loads. When I was living in Alberta I ran wires from my main panel to a 30 amp sub panel with 4 slots in an 8 x 12 shed I put in. That gave me lights in the shed plus bench plug ins for tools and a couple of outside plugs for block heaters in the winter.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I think I need to explain better. My garage shop is detached from the main house. I have an under ground wire 4 or 6 gage I don't remember would have to look running to my shop garage to a sub panel. I have included a picture of the sub panel. I guess I need to replace my sub panel with a bigger one. I don't really want to but I guess this is what you guys are saying. That way I can have 220 volt 20, 30, and 50 amp breakers even though I can not run them all at the same time because I only have a 60 amp feed circuit.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes. 
But you don't need a main breaker in it. Nice to have for convenience, but the branch circuit to the sub-panel is protected by the breaker supplying it at the main panel.
Having said that, I remember even way back when, shops had a main disconnect so that everything in the shop could be shutdown in an emergency, or to prevent unauthorized users from starting up equipment.
Not a bad idea really, especially if you've got grand-kids. 

You know I'm in fence-post-hole-digging-avoidance mode, right?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" I have an under ground wire 4 or 6 gauge I don't remember would have to look running to my shop garage to a sub panel."
-Lee

Keep your fingers crossed for the #4!
http://www.cerrowire.com/files/file/ampacity2015(2).pdf


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

coxhaus said:


> I think I need to explain better. My garage shop is detached from the main house. I have an under ground wire 4 or 6 gage I don't remember would have to look running to my shop garage to a sub panel. I have included a picture of the sub panel. I guess I need to replace my sub panel with a bigger one. I don't really want to but I guess this is what you guys are saying. That way I can have 220 volt 20, 30, and 50 amp breakers even though I can not run them all at the same time because I only have a 60 amp feed circuit.


Lee if the run isn't too long then 6 gauge is good for 60 amps and 4 is good for 80 amps. Some sub panels I've seen have lugs to attach another set of wires to which would give you equal load to the main breaker in that panel without needing to feed off a breaker in the distribution side of the panel. You'll have to remove the cover to see if that is the case with yours. That would save you some trouble if yours has them. Just put another panel in near that one if it does have them. But get one with more slots. I often run a table saw, dust collector, and jointer at the same time but if you are welding that is all you will be doing. Even when I'm running all 3 machines at once I'm sure I'm drawing less than 40 amps total.


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