# making and accurate template for an oval hand mirror



## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

*Making an accurate template for an oval hand mirror*

I'm going to try to make a reasonable facsimile of an oval hand mirror.
I purchased a mirror and would like to inset it into the body of the mirror base and end up with a decent profile.

It's making the template that has me guessing right now.


Any tips you folks could give me?


Bob


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

This would be a good job for the inlay kit  the outside profile should be a easy one 

see below

http://www.routerworkshop.com/inlays112.html
http://www.routerworkshop.com/revinlay.html

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bob oswin said:


> I'm going to try to make a reasonable facsimile of an oval hand mirror.
> I purchased a mirror and would like to inset it into the body of the mirror base and end up with a decent profile.
> 
> It's making the template that has me guessing right now.
> ...


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/MATHALGO/Ellipses.HTM

Just Google for "draw an ellipse"


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

Thanks Fellas, I'll give both a try .
The problem stems from having to rout out the inside of the mirror body and still leave a unifrom reveal around the mirror.
I can handle rounding over the outside of the oval but forsee difficulty getting a clean edge next to the mirror itself.
It's easy with a round one as you just turn it on a lathe.

Bob


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bob oswin said:


> I'm going to try to make a reasonable facsimile of an oval hand mirror.
> I purchased a mirror and would like to inset it into the body of the mirror base and end up with a decent profile.
> 
> It's making the template that has me guessing right now.
> ...


Bob
You have the mirror what is the major and minor axis and What template guides do you have. Get back to me and I may have the solution to your problem.
Tom


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

template tom said:


> Bob
> You have the mirror what is the major and minor axis and What template guides do you have. Get back to me and I may have the solution to your problem.
> Tom


Hi Tom:

The major axis is 6" and the minor is 4". 
I have a pretty full set of guides and can get a extra one if you suggest something I don't have.

Cheers
Bob


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

Just one more way to get the job done with a scroll saw 
scroll down the web page and you will see it..

http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.com/2008_05_01_archive.html

====


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bob oswin said:


> Hi Tom:
> 
> The major axis is 6" and the minor is 4".
> I have a pretty full set of guides and can get a extra one if you suggest something I don't have.
> ...


Hi Bob

I have drawn the project and have worked out the various points that need to be covered.

(a) The size of the template cut-out to produce the rebate for the mirror.
(b) The size of the templates recommended
(c) The cutters required

I would suggest the method I would use and that is to make two identical templates and sandwich the material between them. The material should be held secure in the 'Jig Holder' I have been talking about for some time. One of the templates can also be used as the Jig to hold the material. How you are going to hold it secure will be up to you. Keeping it larger than required would do as that is what I would do. 
The size of the elliptical cut out should be 6.59" major axis and 4.54" minor axis. (This could be made slightly larger both ways again this will depend on what cutters you are using)

With a fine beading cutter I would rout into the face of the material this would eventually be the beading on the inside of the frame.

I would then flip over the complete set-up and then with a straight cutter rout the rebate for the mirror stopping at the beading put in from the other side. All of the operations will depend on what template guides you are to use. The drawing shows 1.18" using the beading cutter and .84" using the cutter for the rebate which shows .24" though it could be slightly larger.

I started drawing this using imperial measurements but I quickly changed to metric the simply got the program to convert to imperial. Now I am convinced why the template guide method is not popular in the USA.

At this atage Bob i have not gone into the method I would use to rout the external shape of the frame and putting on a moulding I will wait to see if you wish to proceed with what I have put up now. I have made such frames and I have included pics of the results. Maybe others will come up with a better method. At least what I have suggested does work as I have produced the goods before and I would not attempt to suggest a method if I had never had success with it.

I await you comments

Tom


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tom just a thought. He purchased an oval mirror. But what if it is not a true oval. The mid points he gave are what they are, but it is possible his mirrors actual curve is different(mathematically incorrect).

Just a thought.

I think he better do a trace and make sure his oval mirror is mathematically correct because your calculations will be correct.

I actually ran into this not to long ago and the oval given to me was cocked or crooked, but you could not tell with the eyes at least I could not. Until I cut the perfect oval in ply did I realize it. What was given me was 1/4" off in the 1st and 3rd quadrants from the 2nd and 4th quadrants, if that makes sense to you.

Tom you are a great guy doing this leg work for him!


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

nickao65 said:


> Tom just a thought. He purchased an oval mirror. But what if it is not a true oval. The mid points he gave are what they are, but it is possible his mirrors actual curve is different(mathematically incorrect).
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> ...


You are quite correct Nik it has also happened to me also on one occassion this is where it is an advantage if they submit drawings or pics when submitting a posting. We will have to wait and see. The dimensions are what was transferred from my metric drawing to imperial measurement. This is something I am glad I do not have to work in or I would not be able to produce what I do with the router.
Thanks for your comments I am not sure what I have submitted will be of any assistance to Bob.

Tom


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well it certainly should be. Even if something on his oval mirror is off the logic and procedure is sound.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

You know I tried to buy a Metric bit set and a metric template guide set from trend but they will not mail it to the USA. I have purchased many things from trend, but this they will not send to me.

So it is not just the consumers here that do not want it, but the people that make the stuff do not want to open up the market here and will not even try. It will not take hold if it is not readily available.

Now I have to find a friend to ship something over to me.

I would like a template guide set in metric and a general bit set in metric, straight cutters mostly.

I can get some Festool stuff(I have their routers), but it is just to darn expensive for their accessories!

Trend will send me the fractional stuff though. I did find a some trend template guides in metric, but not a whole lot and no metric bits to go with makes no sense to me at all. Plus they are the Trend(Euro)style n I really wanted a brass set not plastic.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Bob 
here is one of my elliptical frames I was looking for


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Okay I am going to try to go metric(I'll give it a try) I found a place that will send me the Freud metric cutters.

What are the most common cutters you use with the template guides in metric? 

And where do I find metric spiral bits?

I would love to buy the template guides, some straight bits and spiral bits, in metric, all from the same place, but thats looking tough right now. Anyone know a place?

Nick


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

template tom said:


> You are quite correct Nik it has also happened to me also on one occassion this is where it is an advantage if they submit drawings or pics when submitting a posting. We will have to wait and see. The dimensions are what was transferred from my metric drawing to imperial measurement. This is something I am glad I do not have to work in or I would not be able to produce what I do with the router.
> Thanks for your comments I am not sure what I have submitted will be of any assistance to Bob.
> 
> Tom


Hi Tom and Nik:
I am a low learner but a dedicated apprentice. <g>
Tomorrow I shall try out the method that you have provided for me Tom and Nik I will take of a template from the mirror to validate the ellipse prior to cutting any material.
I'll get my camera out and keep you posted with my results.


Thanks 
Bob


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

nickao65 said:


> I would love to buy the template guides, some straight bits and spiral bits, in metric, all from the same place, but thats looking tough right now. Anyone know a place?
> 
> Nick


I answered an ad on Craigslist from a fellow an hour north of me in Saginaw. He had purchased a bunch of bit sets to sell on flea-bay. On a trip up north I stopped by. He had some sets on the front porch for me to look at, and leave the cash there if I wanted any. They were all metric.

Sooo, I guess they can be found. Just have to look for them.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

I got hung up on the hand mirror thing ,so I said ok lets make one just for kicks,
I could not sleep last night so off to the shop to play a little bit 
I use the Inlay way and the scroll saw to make this one, I didn't have a Oval mirror but I had one out of a old plastic hand mirror so I used it..

I tried to put a nice round over on the inside of the edge but that didn't work so well little bit of rip out...the stock was 3/8" thick to start off with...it has round over on all the edges so it's easy to hold 

=====


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Very nicely done BJ! Nick, we have friends in Canada, eh? BrianS located some metric bits that were a reasonable price. Not a problem to ship them from Detroit to you. You can PM either of us for details. I am glad to see more members interested in Tom's methods.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Going Metric*



nickao65 said:


> Okay I am going to try to go metric(I'll give it a try) I found a place that will send me the Freud metric cutters.
> 
> What are the most common cutters you use with the template guides in metric?
> 
> ...


It is not a matter of finding dedicated metric cutters. I would like to draw your attention the the availability of metric cutters available in Australia. I have been purchasing from my cutters from outlets that stock a great variety of cutters and as I went to my cabinet to take out the catalogue and opened it up at any page one would think that it was designed for the USA market. The first dimension listed as an example in the straight cutter section was 15/64" equating to 6mm next was 1/4" ---6.35mm
9/32" ---7.1mm, 5/16"--7.9mm and the list goes on and on 13/16" 20.6mm 1"--25.4mm

The point I am making . All these years I have* not* really been working with dedicated metric cutters but with Imperial with metric conversions. I find it difficult to find a great number of dedicated metric cutters produced by this company and they are the best cutters in Australia. they also produce a cheaper brand for the hobbyist. They have been adding a few dedicated metric cutters over a number of years but I am looking at their latest catalogue.

So go no further in your quest to find dedicated metric cutters simply purchase a set of good callipers and do your own conversion. Why did I not mention this in the beginning that I was using imperial cutters all these years. I suppose I did not give it great thought until now when I see people looking for dedicated cutters. _Stop now as there is no need to hunt the world over if we who are considered a metric using country do not have them._

My apology for not making this point in the beginning so what I am saying if you do want to get more from your router with the use of template guides and there is no need to purchase e 40mm (did I say that after all these years) yes, the answer is purchase that set of callipers and join me with my full range of Imperial Cutters.

Hopefully this will make some difference to the use of the guides. The cutters are available at www.aptools.com.au I will check out the link and submit it later. I just had to submit my true confession "I have been using the Imperial cutters all the time".

This will cause a stir I am sure but now I have got it of my mind
Tom


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Why not just go as simple as possible, 10mm template guide with 6 mm bit and so on.

I think if you make a starter list that works with your info many will find it simpler to get on board.

Is the list Harrysin laid out seem good? I mean when I follow someone else's train of thought I like to have the exact cutters and guides they have.

So what do your projects on the cd/dvd use?

Offering up the dvd with all the guides and bits needed for the dvd in one package makes it awfully simple for guys to order. Or at least a list of the guides and bits needed to follow the dvd or project exactly the way you did it.

Forget the conversions, I do enough math with the fractions, why not eliminate as many possibilities for error as possible?

I think one that wants to go metric needs to start thinking metric and not translating everything to imperial in their head. Just my opinion.

At least it is what I am going to try to do.

I started a separate thread on this going metric, maybe we should jump over there. Or move this post and the last few over there. i have a double post one here and the same one that starts the new thread. 

Can someone mover it over?


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

here is the link
www.apworkshop.com.au
Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

This may be it
http://www.apworkshop.com.au/


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks guys Harrysin gave me the link and I am trying to figure out the total cost. 

I found a place selling the Freud metric for a whole lot less(50% less) so I may mix and match after all.

Is there a benefit to the titanium coated carbide, they cost a lot more. I never had one before. This place sells almost all their bits in the titanium version for maybe 20% more.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That was a good post Bj, but it would have been even more helpful to Bob if you had done a photo shoot showing HOW you did it, as I try to do. You regularly use the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words"!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I knew you would jump on that, but it was 2:00 AM and maybe the flash would tick off the neighbors not to say anything about the saw and the router running at 2:00 AM  I didn't want to have a cop knocking on the shop door telling me to pipe down ... 

Plus it's so easy with the inlay way and the scroll saw way.. 

http://www.routerworkshop.com/revinlay.html

=======




harrysin said:


> That was a good post Bj, but it would have been even more helpful to Bob if you had done a photo shoot showing HOW you did it, as I try to do. You regularly use the phrase "a picture is worth a thousand words"!


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

Well, gentlemen, armed with your great ideas and encouragement I am humbly making my way to the shop today to put those tips into practice.

I wll document my triumphs and failures along the way with pics.

Cheers
Bob


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"Plus it's so easy with the inlay way and the scroll saw way.."

If it were Bj, Bob would not have needed to ask the question in the first place!


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

Well fellas, I spent saturday afternoon deciding what router and what bushings I would use for the project and after a couple of false starts I cleaned up and decided to start over fresh Sunday morning.

No sooner had my head hit the pillow saturday night than I heard my wifey saying breakfast is ready and you promised to help with the groceries. (I hate it when she remembers thing s like this!)

At any rate, after prowling the grocery isles for nearly 2 hours and hauling out $280.00 worth of grub and not so necessary but fun products, I found myslef being directed to the nearest liquidation center for a romp.

After the second romp at the next one we were finally on our way home.
I loaded all the food into the kitchen and was just going to head to the shop when the voice I have grown to fear rang out saying "wait until I've finished putting the food away and I'll make you lunch."
To make a long story short, I got out to the shop at about 1:30 Sunday afternoon and managed to butcher the first template.
The second one is going to be golden so I will get some photos done so you can follow my progress.

Cheers
Bob


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## BOB 2 (Jul 20, 2006)

*The oval mirror template is done*

I have been wanting to try one of these for a while now and got the first pattern off the paper in into wood today.







First thing to do is determine how much border you want to encircle the mirror and then cut and accurate pattern of the actual glass to serve as a template for your router inlay kit.










I sticky back taped the mirror to bandsaw a piece of 1/4”MDF and trimmed it to the shape with a bearing guided router bit.










Next step was to refine the mirror back template so the oval would line up with the axis of the handle.
Once the recess for the mirror was routed the body could be cut out on the bandsaw and refined








The thickness sander brought us to the right thickness and refined the surfaces.







A light skip around the router table witha round over bit and we are starting to see daylight.








The mirror seems a good fit and the bezel looks relatively even round it.









here’s the back with the mirror out on the side.
I am contemplating an inlay for the back to kind of dress it up a bit.










Bob


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Hey nice little project!


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Looking good Bob.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

A first class job and photo shoot, it's obvious that you derived a great deal of pleasure from this project.


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