# Cyma Recta Profile Bit Available?



## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

I would like to reproduce the "cyma recta" profile as part of a built-up crown molding, but cannot find anyone who sells such a bit. The "cyma recta" is essentially a shallow Roman ogee profile. For an example, see FWW #166, p. 74 (Dec. 2003). Has anyone got any suggestions?

I have thought of trying to combine a 3/8" radius roundover and a 3/8" radius cove, but I would need to run my stock at 30° to vertical for the roundover, and even then I would cut out more than I need (bit would engage entire 90° face while need only 60° of a cut. Thanks for any thoughts.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

They make just about all the molding bits for the router 

Here are just some of them, the one I like best is the 1st. one on the list.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PC-1-2-Shank-Reversible-Crown-Molding-A-Router-Bit_W0QQitemZ140219796228QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-pc-1-2-Shank-Reversible-Crown-Molding-Router-Bit-Set_W0QQitemZ140219108634QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PC-1-2-SH-2-5-16-Long-Crown-Molding-B-Router-Bit_W0QQitemZ140218231693QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-2-Shank-Specialty-Molding-A-Router-Bit_W0QQitemZ130209258941QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-pc-1-2-SH-2-5-16-Long-Crown-Molding-Router-Bit-Set_W0QQitemZ140219474348QQihZ004QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-2-Shamk-Reversible-Crown-Molding-B-Router-Bit_W0QQitemZ130209870788QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-PC-1-2-SH-Base-Architectural-Molding-B-Router-Bit_W0QQitemZ130210112349QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

http://stores.ebay.com/Super-Carbide-Tools


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molding_%28decorative%29

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Dave Bishop said:


> I would like to reproduce the "cyma recta" profile as part of a built-up crown molding, but cannot find anyone who sells such a bit. The "cyma recta" is essentially a shallow Roman ogee profile. For an example, see FWW #166, p. 74 (Dec. 2003). Has anyone got any suggestions?
> 
> I have thought of trying to combine a 3/8" radius roundover and a 3/8" radius cove, but I would need to run my stock at 30° to vertical for the roundover, and even then I would cut out more than I need (bit would engage entire 90° face while need only 60° of a cut. Thanks for any thoughts.


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these bits will do the job for me. I am not looking to make a one-piece traditional crown, but want the cyma recta profile as part of a built-up crown like the one I referenced in FWW.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the forums Dave. Do you live in Ohio?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

Please,,, How about a snapshot of 
" see FWW #166, p. 74 (Dec. 2003) " that one is 5 years old and I don't have it any more ..




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Dave Bishop said:


> Thanks for the suggestions, but none of these bits will do the job for me. I am not looking to make a one-piece traditional crown, but want the cyma recta profile as part of a built-up crown like the one I referenced in FWW.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I think I'm missing something here. If I'm understanding the "definition" correctly, all you need is a cove and round-over. You can make a "bevel" fence to get the "degree" that you're after. Again, I might be misunderstanding. 

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu7Orl...206970667/**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyma

Bevel fence: http://www.routerworkshop.com/bevelfence.html


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

Hamlin and others,

I have decided to try a "bevel fence", which I understand is an angled fence (in my case, I need 30° off of vertical, angled toward the bit). I will need to take the bearings off my bits so they clear the workpiece, for in each case, the cove and roundover bits are designed to take a 90° bite while I need only 60°. Because of this, the roundover bit will make a little notch where I don't need it, but it will be hidden when I stack the various profiles. I'll let you know how this works out. Thanks for your suggestions.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Hey Dave,

How about posting a few pics of your results?

Ed......


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Dave,

Will any of these help?:

http://www.freudtools.com/p-187-wide-crown-molding-system.aspx
http://www.freudtools.com/p-111-crown-molding-bits.aspx


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

To review, I was trying to make a "cyma recta" profile, a sort of flattened Roman ogee, as part of a built-up crown molding. While several of you have asked me to post pictures, I have tried this evening, but nothing happens when I push the "upload" button, even after several minutes of waiting. I have sent a note to the webmaster asking what to try next. Any thoughts from those of you who have uploaded images?

I am happy to report that I was more successful in the shop than at the keyboard. I built a 30° fence of MDF and was able to complete my prototype molding in three steps: (1) run 1/2" thick stock past a 3/8" roundover bit (bearing removed) using the 30° fence; (2) run stock past a 3/8" cove bit (bearing removed) using standard fence and stock flat on table, leaving a tiny step where the profiles met, for fear of overcutting it; and (3) a little hand sanding with 220 to remove the step.

I know this means little without photos, and I will post them if/when I solve that problem. Thanks to all for your suggestions. This is my first thread on this forum, and I already have the impression that it is one of the friendliest forums out there!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Dave,

I believe you have to have 10 posts before you can post any pics. A prevention to help stop spam upon this wonderful site. You could probably send to a member thru reg email like I've done in the past. I sent mine to Bj. I'm sure he'll be glad to give you a hand.


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

I learned that my image size (3072 x 2304) is too large to upload, so will need to take more pictures another day and upload then. Keep watching!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Dave Bishop said:


> I learned that my image size (3072 x 2304) is too large to upload, so will need to take more pictures another day and upload then. Keep watching!


Hi Dave,

If you have Paint.Net or PaintShopPro or other type program, you can resize them to fit. I learned this the hard way until Bj taught me how to change the sizing of the pics.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

You can download FREE software but do this , upload your pictures to
http://tinypic.com/
They will resize them for you and give you a url code,,,that you can use but you will still run into the 10 post min.thing..but you are on 7 so it will only take 3 more to get over the 10. just say hi 3 time in this thread and it's done with...

Do this goto http://www.irfanview.com/ and get the free software that will let you rezise the snapshots so you can upload them to the forum..

JUST a note ****** the 10 post thing is only for the URL items,,it should let you post pictures right off the bat but they must not be to big...
If I recall it's 999 x 999 ...


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Dave Bishop said:


> I learned that my image size (3072 x 2304) is too large to upload, so will need to take more pictures another day and upload then. Keep watching!


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

Finally, here are photos of the "cyma recta" profile and the steps I used to make it:

Photo #1: This is taken from FWW #166, p. 74 (Dec. 2003). This is the built-up molding I want to make. It consists of (from the top) quarter round, fillet, cyma recta, fillet, elongated cove, astragal, and cove. The cyma recta is what I wanted to duplicate using roundover and cove bits.

Photo #2: A front view of the 30° fence and retainer mounted to my router table.

Photo #3: A side view showing how the stock will ride on the retainer and be held against the fence.

Photo #4: The first cut, made with a 3/8" roundover bit with the bearing removed.

Photo #5: After the second cut, made with a 3/8" cove bit (bearing removed) with the stock flat on the table. A 3/4" roundnose bit would have worked here, too.

Photo #6: Showing how the notch due to the overcut of the roundover bit will be hidden when the molding is built up.


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks to all with the suggestions on how to post pictures. The size limit is 2000 x 2000 - I learned this from an error message. So I went back, set my camera for 1600 x 1200, and took more photos, the ones I have now uploaded.

Dave


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You Welcome Dave

When you resize them they will upload quicker and popup quicker, I used one of your snapshots a resize it , for a show and tell thing..

Yours is 453.85 kb and the one I reworked is 10.9 kb..
You will see it jump up quick when you click on it...
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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

That's quite a diiference in file size and performance, with no noticeable change in appearance. I need to look at those sites you mentioned. Thanks.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Wish you had posted a picture of what you wanted in the beginning. The moulding you made is what I always thought was the Cyma Reversa. This may have worked for you:


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## Dave Bishop (Mar 30, 2008)

Charles M,

Thanks for your interest in my work. I wasn't aware of the new Freud 99-482 when I started this thread (my Freud catalog is five years old). You are correct in that this bit cuts the correct profile, but in a larger size than I wanted. It appears to have cove and roundover radii of 1/2", judging from the length of the profile. I used 3/8" radii bits for my molding. 

Incidentally, a cyma reversa (ogee) on the edge of a board laid flat starts and ends in a vertical plane, while a cyma recta (Roman ogee) starts and ends in a horizontal plane. Most standard ogee and Roman ogee bits include a full 90° of both roundover and cove cuts, while the Freud 99-482 cuts 60° of both roundover and cove, the same as I was able to do with the 3/8" bits. 

Dave


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Dave,

Glad to see you were able to complish what you were looking for.


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