# Best bits for crown molding?



## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

I have been asked by a friend to make several hundred feet of large crown molding for his new house. I did a search on Amazon and came up with several alternatives. For ~$300 CMT has a set that includes a cove cutter one mounts in the table saw and several router bits to complete the profile. Freud sells bits to do the job for about $160 (3 bits, not the complete set) or I could get one MLCS bit which would cost about $60 and use a 45 degree bit I already own to cut the backside. I'd like to keep his cost down, but at the same time, don't want to get something that will put out an inferior product. Any thoughts? Other alternatives?

Thanks for your assistance.
rstermer


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rstermer

It's funny that you should post this I was making a test board today to do about the same but not 300' feet I just need about 30ft or so.

It's a real challenge for the router to made crown molding ,I use some junk pine and it was hard to get it just right,,,it took two bits and many passes over the router bit,,,,,it will take a 3 1/4HP router and it will draw 15 amps. all the time,,,the test board I made is 3 1/4" wide and use a 2 3/4" wide cove bit I don't think I will do it the same way next time I think I'm going to use the Vert.bit next time, it's not as hard on the router and me next time..

I also try it on the table saw and that was a real night mare , it took more time to sand it out than it was worth.. 

I used the MLCS bits on this test board and I also have the Vert.bits for the next test board...

I should note I used many panel bits and the cove bit is one of the hardest bits I have used on the router table because it takes the FULL pattern of the bit that's to say both sides of the cutter are being used at one time...it's a push pull thing on the bit and it likes to pull the stock right out of your hands, so I used the buddies that did help but it's still hard on the bit and the router and ME...nerve racking job..  and I should not be..

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rstermer said:


> I have been asked by a friend to make several hundred feet of large crown molding for his new house. I did a search on Amazon and came up with several alternatives. For ~$300 CMT has a set that includes a cove cutter one mounts in the table saw and several router bits to complete the profile. Freud sells bits to do the job for about $160 (3 bits, not the complete set) or I could get one MLCS bit which would cost about $60 and use a 45 degree bit I already own to cut the backside. I'd like to keep his cost down, but at the same time, don't want to get something that will put out an inferior product. Any thoughts? Other alternatives?
> 
> Thanks for your assistance.
> rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI rstermer
> 
> It's funny that you should post this I was making a test board today to do about the same but not 300' feet I just need about 30ft or so.
> 
> ...



Bob-That's some nice looking crown you made. The bit I was thinking of using is this one: 

http://www.amazon.com/Multi-Molding...f=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1209954190&sr=8-31

Is that the vertical bit you were talking about?

It seems it would be a lot easier to use than the cove bit, especially for a beginner like me.
rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Bob- Amana also has bits for crown. Here is a link:

http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/crown-molding-extender-54410.html

Regards,
RAS


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rstermer

Amana makes a good bit, I have about 30 or so molding bits I got most of them from the eBay site below 

http://stores.ebay.com/Super-Carbide-Tools

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rstermer said:


> Bob- Amana also has bits for crown. Here is a link:
> 
> http://www.amanatool.com/routerbits/crown-molding-extender-54410.html
> 
> ...


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi rstermer
> 
> Amana makes a good bit, I have about 30 or so molding bits I got most of them from the eBay site below
> 
> ...


I can see why. The Amana bit is $68, super carbide sells the equivalent for $18. You have been satisfied with the quality?
RAs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rstermer

Yes very satisfied I must have 80 or so of his bits and only had one out of the lot I didn't care for... it was a 1/4" bit and I cooked it in some Cherry...working to hard...I think 

see his feedback 
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rstermer said:


> I can see why. The Amana bit is $68, super carbide sells the equivalent for $18. You have been satisfied with the quality?
> RAs


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## fibertech (May 7, 2005)

Bob, At the Woodworking Show, Peachtree was demonstrating a couple of Freud bits that I have been coveting. The 45 degree Lock Mitre and the Drawer Bit. They are made of Titanium and don't cause heat (at least they demonstrated this with MDF). The guy that you linked has great prices. My question is how is his service? I have been starting to acquire better bits such as Amana and Freud. I am sold on Freud saw blades for their quality and price. The bits that I mentioned do not break the bank. Opinions? Thanks -Derek


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I love my router but for this, I use the table saw. I just made some molding a few days ago out of pine and it is beautiful and hardly needed any sanding. I'm not sure why Bob said it was a 'nightmare' to make?

~Julie~


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi -Derek

Well I'm a weekend woodworker so to speak  some days I don't turn on one router and I have many to select from that's why I buy the cheaper bits, it's one item that can cost tons of money if you let it get away from you. 
I like the Freud saw blades also but I can just buy one or two and be done with it for a year or two if not more...
But router bits come in so many patterns unlike the saw blades.. 

I may use one of the bits once a year if that and then it's back in the box, I do like Freud router bits and the higher end ones like CMT and I have some of them but they only come out for the best projects or to say the best woods... most of the time I build stuff that may end up in a garage sale one day...not a pass it on or hand me down stuff plus I only have so many walls in the house and they are full now with stuff I have made..

So the bottom line is , I love the router and what it can do but I don't like buying higher end bits most of the time when the middle price ones will do the job just as well ...  it's hard for me to put out 68.oo bucks for a bit that I can get for 15.oo bucks that will do the job...

You also asked about "My question is how is his service? it's great I have them in the mail box in about 3 to 4 days I buy most of them on the weekends and have them on Thur. ...I think the last time I checked he sold 7,250 bits and had only one bad feed back and that very good for eBay seller..when you deal with so many types of people 


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fibertech said:


> Bob, At the Woodworking Show, Peachtree was demonstrating a couple of Freud bits that I have been coveting. The 45 degree Lock Mitre and the Drawer Bit. They are made of Titanium and don't cause heat (at least they demonstrated this with MDF). The guy that you linked has great prices. My question is how is his service? I have been starting to acquire better bits such as Amana and Freud. I am sold on Freud saw blades for their quality and price. The bits that I mentioned do not break the bank. Opinions? Thanks -Derek


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Julie

I would love to see a snapshot of the cove molding you made and like the one I posted ,I made a jig ( angle jig) to do it on the table saw and it was a nightmare for me, I started with a 3/4" x 3 1/2" wide 36" long pine and it was hoping all over the place by a 1/32" ,I tried 3 diff. blades and had the same error over and over not to say anyhting about saw marks,,, 

After making some real nice pine firewood I gave up and use the bit below to get the job done with a pass or two on the router table...

*Crown Molding Router Bits from MLCS
*


#7870 2-1/4" 1/2" $37.00 
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bit_molding2.html#crown_molding_anchor

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Julie said:


> I love my router but for this, I use the table saw. I just made some molding a few days ago out of pine and it is beautiful and hardly needed any sanding. I'm not sure why Bob said it was a 'nightmare' to make?
> 
> ~Julie~


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI rstermer
> 
> It's funny that you should post this I was making a test board today to do about the same but not 300' feet I just need about 30ft or so.
> 
> ...


Bob- Did you try out the vertical bit? How did that work out?
rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Here is an interesting link to a blog describing how to make it on the table saw:

http://lumberjocks.com/jocks/decoustudio/blog/312

Note the sanding time- 1 hr per stick! Ouch!! But he didn't have a good alternative way to do it since he had to match an existing crown.
rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Here is a blog from a guy who made crown using a vertical bit.

http://tonyswoodshop.blogspot.com/2008/01/making-crown-molding.html

His fixturing is too simple though, and so he got a pretty poor result, lots of waves which indicates to me that the stock was not being held with uniform pressure aginst the bit. If he had used a double fence setup like Bobj3 shows in one of his thumbnails, I think he would probably would have obtained a much better result.
rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Here is a link to a pretty good discussion on how to INSTALL crown molding.

http://www.jeffgreefwoodworking.com/pnc/moldings/index.html

rstermer


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Here is a link to an article describing techniques for making built up crown molding:

http://www.woodworkingseminars.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/100407_crownmolding.pdf

rstermer


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rstermer


I make most of the molding with my Horz.router table but I do use the other setup as well when I need 5" tall molding,,or short modling 1" tall ,pass the stock by the bit and both edges then rip it to size,on the tall stuff I use the Horz.router for the 1st. and the other setup for the 2nd pass it saves me time from playing with setup and bits... 

here's a snapshot of just some of the molding I made with the Vert.bits 

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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

Link to a Freud video that shows the use of their bits. The fixturing is pretty good, but I still think Bobj3's approach is best.
rstermer

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1348242349&channel=1155152696


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi rstermer
> 
> 
> I make most of the molding with my Horz.router table but I do use the other setup as well when I need 5" tall molding,,or short modling 1" tall ,pass the stock by the bit and both edges then rip it to size,on the tall stuff I use the Horz.router for the 1st. and the other setup for the 2nd pass it saves me time from playing with setup and bits...
> ...


Nice stuff, looks like you were using mdf. Do you think we should use mdf or pine for a painted ceiling molding? Also, do you think one Super Carbide bit will hold up for a run of 840' (420' of molding cut top and bottom = 840') or should we go with the MLCS bit? My thought is that as a newbie, with limited ability to make adjustments on the fly, once I get my setup done, I don't want to change ANYTHING (except cut depth) until I've run it all.
Thanks,
rstermer


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rstermer

I would suggest MDF if you are goinf to paint it.. MDF comes out clean and takes paint well.

I use a sanding mop when I use MDF it will take the fuzz off quick and give it a nice clean look...

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/The_Sanding_Mop.php

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MDF stock is hard on bits, I would suggest you have a extra one on hand just it case.
You can run it by the bit in two passes that will help keep the wear down on the bit plus give you a nice clean looking molding...


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi rstermer
> 
> I would suggest MDF if you are goinf to paint it.. MDF comes out clean and takes paint well.
> 
> ...


The sanding mop is pretty cool. Thanks for the info. Finishing is my least favorite part of woodworking and I'm always looking for easier and quicker ways to get it done.

What grit should be used for mdf? 

Too bad the guy who posted on lumberjocks and was making crown on his table saw didn't know about the sanding mop, he could have saved himself a ton of work and a lot of time!
rstermer


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rstermer

I use the 180g on the MDF it only take a pass or two to get it smooth and ready for the paint job...

I also have the 220g on a home made shaft,,,for the fine work on hardwood..

here's a snapshot of both of them..


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Bob,

Nice job on the molding!  

Do you use the sanding mop in a drill press or with a hand drill?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Greg


Thanks, "mops" both , they work great once the stock is glued up and in place to get the joints just right... 

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gregW said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Nice job on the molding!
> 
> Do you use the sanding mop in a drill press or with a hand drill?


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the tip! I went ahead and ordered two of the 6" mops and one of the mini dremmel ones.  

the more I use my router it seems like sanding is the only thing that I spend more time at than cleaning up all the dust and chips..


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi greg

You'er Welcome ,, I also have the mini dremmel ones they are great for the fine work, I use them alot on the CarveWright stuff..


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gregW said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thanks for the tip! I went ahead and ordered two of the 6" mops and one of the mini dremmel ones.
> 
> the more I use my router it seems like sanding is the only thing that I spend more time at than cleaning up all the dust and chips..


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Bobj3 said "HI Julie

I would love to see a snapshot of the cove molding you made... "


I just made this, it's pine and has not been touched by sandpaper. 

~Julie~


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks for the snapshot Julie

What size of stock did you start with ? and what size is it now...and what size is the cove, is it on the floor or on the counter top ?



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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

This is actually a deeper type cove, which I have no idea what size it was to start out, but my guess is it's finished at about 2 1/2" at the widest point. I make my own plans, do my own thing a lot of the time, so I just do the width, depth and whatever that I feel like at the time... quite liberating. In the photo it's sitting on the living room floor, I brought it in from the shop at lunch time, just for you Bob, but it's back out there now.

~Julie~


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I would very much like for this thread to continue and develop more discussion of the Freud Wide Crown Molding bits. The videos and other information says there are 9 possible combinations, but I count 36, but I have no experience with them and am not sure of the aesthetics of the of the unmentioned 27. Does anyone have experience with these bits? I also note that mlcs now has two similar bits.


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## rstermer (Apr 22, 2008)

mftha said:


> I would very much like for this thread to continue and develop more discussion of the Freud Wide Crown Molding bits. The videos and other information says there are 9 possible combinations, but I count 36, but I have no experience with them and am not sure of the aesthetics of the of the unmentioned 27. Does anyone have experience with these bits? I also note that mlcs now has two similar bits.


Mftha- 
My research shows there is a huge variation in the price of bits and I wonder whether spending the extra money to buy a first class bit ilike the Freud is justified if one intends to make crown only once. So far I am persuaded by Bobj's opinion expressed above, so am inclined to go with the super carbide bits ($18 each, I'll buy two) unless someone tells me they tried using them on a large run of stock and got an inferior result (since my friend is on a very tight budget, the inexpensive bit, instead of a really nice, and expensive, one like the Freud, Eagle America or MLCS is really a lot more practical, provided it will hold up for the entire run of stock (and that really is THE question.)) I think one of the main conclusions I've reached so far is that I want to use a fixture like the one Bobj designed to support my stock because I think it will ensure uniformity in the cut. I think the fixture design is maybe more important than the brand of bit one uses, but that's just my opinion and I certainly don't claim any great expertise! 

Like you, I'd also like to hear from anyone who has used the reversible bits, especially anyone who has used super carbide's version on mdf. I'll ertainly post again when I have something concrete to report. 

Thanks for your post,
rstermer


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

mftha said:


> I would very much like for this thread to continue and develop more discussion of the Freud Wide Crown Molding bits. The videos and other information says there are 9 possible combinations, but I count 36, but I have no experience with them and am not sure of the aesthetics of the of the unmentioned 27. Does anyone have experience with these bits? I also note that mlcs now has two similar bits.


9 possibilities is correct. There are 3 bits that do the top half and 3 for the bottom so you mix and match for 9 profiles. You could conceivably use two tops or two bottoms together but the resulting profile would not be appealing. The issue is the flat portions which are intended to be either in the vertical or horizontal plane when installed at 38°/52°. The MLCS bits you mentioned are for 45° so the look when installed will not be like traditional crown molding.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Thanks,

Actually the number I counted should have been 21, the remaining 15 being redundant. But you have answered answered my question about the aesthetics of the uncounted possibilities. Now that you mention it, I also see your point about the MLCS bits.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

traditional crown molding

http://www.sosimplecrown.com/classic-crown-molding.html

http://www.sosimplecrown.com/videoPage.html

http://www.invitinghome.com/Crown_Molding/Mouldings_Enter.htm

http://www.invitinghome.com/Crown_Molding/Molding_List.htm


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## OkieCarpenter (Feb 14, 2009)

I purchased a set of four Woodline Router Bits at the last Houston Woodcraft Show a couple of years ago and making molding has been a real challenge, at best. First, even with a 3 1/2 hp motor, the wide cuts from these large bits need to be done in small segments, for me up to 10-12 slight moves of the backboards on my table. It takes a lot of patience and if you are not really cautious, you can get a dig or the wood will tend to slide up as you rout as well. Anyway, for short pieces like 6 ft or so, I managed to get some pretty decent crown molding for the entertainment centers (52" TV size) I was making for some customers. Definately custom and very time consuming, but... what the heck, I am retired, right  Good luck


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

For those big bits Woodline is probably the last place I would get them. I bet a CMT set would make your router feel 3 times more powerful.

Remember the bigger the bit, the better brand and quality router bit you need becasue it wears the carbide faster. I bet after 5 passes those bits struggle to do anything.

In addition things like that are better done on a shaper anyway with the big slow moving induction motor. Still I have done things(railings) like that with my old MV12 and good quality bits and it never took more than two passes.

I make crown on the table saw and it comes out gorgeous and a lot simpler than using a router. There are many differnt sets you can buy for the table saw either from CMT or other. Even a magic molder in combination with a cove cutting jig all on the table saw is a great way to make the crown without struggling to get a little router to make those cuts. The table saws 3 HP induction motor plows right through the profiles.

This 

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/cmt-cv-1.htm

and/or with this

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17468&filter=crown jig

can do some nice crown


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