# Latest Woodpecker offering



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

$220 Speed Square!!??!! What? :surprise:

Got an offer for a new Woodpecker item, a "Precision" oversized speed square in 18 inch and 12 inch sizes. The smaller one is only $150. That includes a wooden case, and for $330, you can get both. Order in metric or imperial. 

I'm always amazed at what they come up with, and the prices they set. I'd like to have a precision speed square, but I don't think I could ever justify something like that. However, I can see that it would dramatically increase the precision of a track saw's cuts if you're making cabinets, and for that, the 18 inch model would be very good. If you don't have a table saw and use a track saw instead, well, that changes the equation a bit. 

It does have a removable "hook" that is indexed so you get the same precision when you reattach it. That means the smaller one could be useful for frame making and other mitered projects. Placed on the inside corner it would help square your glue-up. $150 for the 12 inch without a case, I'd make my own case. Delivery expected in June.

I'm not going to pony up for this thing, instead, I'll keep using the thick Rockler clear plastic draftsman's triangle. Anyone got a comment? 

https://www.woodpeck.com/precision-...hPartners&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=15640


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## sgcz75b (Jan 8, 2019)

I think Woodpecker makes some great tools, but I also think in some circles it's de rigueur to have them on the walls (and never touched) as a status symbol.

That being said, I too would like to have some of their products, but am unable to justify their cost for now.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

I covet Woodpecker tools. But, I covet more a stack of Benjamins.


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

For a track saw I use one of these
https://festoolshop.ca/INSTA-RAILSQUARE

For the price of the the double kit you could buy a table saw.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not even on my 'I want one of those' list.
Doesn't Lee Valley have a small clamp on device for the framing square?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yes, yes they do!
Still not inexpensive...
Veritas® Square Fence - Lee Valley Tools


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Yes, yes they do!
> Still not inexpensive...
> Veritas® Square Fence - Lee Valley Tools


...just as easy to use stair gauges...cheaper too...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

If you want one that says precision, check Amazon, they list loads of them, and for loads less money.

I've got a nice yellow plastic one, cost around $2 as I recall. Very accurate, but only about 6 inches. No problem, if I need a longer line, just use a ruler or yardstick and mark it. I think they have them in orange also. 

Honestly, if I had that much money I could blow, I'd start shopping for a new saw.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Woodpecker is a bit above my pay scale - they make nice tools but I'm not sure how they justify their prices - as someone said, they might be great for folks that want to say "I have a Woodpecker"


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

Woodpecker, Incra and Festool are in a league of their own IMHO.
Woodpecker spends extra bread on dressing up their products to be the standard in looks as well. That adds some more cost.

High Quality and high precision tools that last and are dependable cost money. Lots of money. 
In part because of the material and made in USA/Germany, which basically doubles or triples the labor component. Small qty manufacturing costs money on top of all that. 

I went to the Woodpecker factory to buy my router table. The quality of the shop, the professionalism of the staff and the experience was 1st rate. I asked Incra for some help with the old Positioner and Pro Mike I bought used- same kind of top shelf service and information.
That costs money too and shows they are a profitable and properly focused specialty company.

For sure some of these brands have products that seem outrageously priced when compared to the spoiled Walmart Harbor Freight and Rockler items we are lucky enough to have access to......but....they are better.....way better. Now - not everyone needs or can justify/afford a $300 titanium hammer or a $1400 router......or $300 squares........ so we all have to make choices and make things work for us and our projects. Context is everything. I had a $200 Craftex and a $400 Freud router table sitting in their packages in my living room for 2 weeks before I acquired the Woodpecker.....I believe its a way better tool and will last a lifetime, hence the nod to the comparatively outrageous cost. It also removes one variable from any project, the tool. 

As with most things in life - reasonable cost to get reasonably close. Way more money to get consistent and closer. The 90 percentile is usually achievable within reason - the last 10% cost 10x the original outlay - in most things - food, cars, clothes, tools, weapons, cylinder heads, etc. 

I used to make my living with tools; back in the 80's I had no issue spending $60 on single Snap-On 2 ft long Phillips #2 screwdriver ..........that I still use today and is still better than anything else I've ever seen .....for it's intended purpose. Also a great coffee stir stick, lol.

I try to buy the best tool I can afford (or tell myself is worth it, lol). If I buy cheapo - it's because I'm willing to live with the compromises or to modify it to serve my purpose.
What's my time worth etc?

I couldn't fit the Woodpecker dust box under my table, so I made one from a clear plastic watertight document box and added 2 blast gates. $ 30 in materials, and an hour of work, saved me $100.....for now, as I think this will work fine. Same with the power switch (modded with a 15 ft power cable) and the $ 20 HF router speed control. They will work for their intended purposes and I saved another $100 in the right place, at the cost of another hour of my time.

If you are framing your shed, the Woodpecker is overkill.
If you are building a frame for your Mona Lisa or a display cabinet for your Faberge egg, it would be the minimum standard.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Paul you have an Edelbrock router table? Cool. I liked their racing parts.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@tulowd Paul, Good points. I own two Woodpecker items. One is the router table mounting plate for my Triton. Thick, strong, twist lock inserts, and nice looking to boot. The other item is their fence gauge, which has enabled me to get everything parallel, miter slot, blade, fence. Also discovered my fence is about 3-4 thousandths irregular along its length. Negligible, but nice to know how accurate it really is. I do like precision, at least as much as is possible with wood. The gauge is also kind of handsome.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

I own the Sliding T Bevel and angle gauge.
https://www.woodpeck.com/onetime-tool-bevel-gauge-angle-reference-plate-2016.html

Tbh, I thought the anodizing could have been a little better. But a solid tool overall.

I haven't seen anything else that I'd actually get my moneys worth, or wasn't over priced.



> Woodpecker, Incra and Festool are in a league of their own IMHO.


Don't forget Bridge City. Or it that another league entirely? My favorite square is a 25 year old 4" Bridge City, that was about $60 back then.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

Hey Tom: I just missed out buying one of those dial indicator gages...... by a smidge, lol ...price was epic - $60 USD! I'm an idiot. Altho I ended up buying a set of the Kreg setup bars from him for $30. Virtually brand new - his father in law was a former CEO and machinist so nothing but the best and in pristine condition. Still kicking myself for not reacting quickly enough.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

The Woodpecker anodizing is meant to be pretty and protect; kind of like these high current Orion amplifiers I collect. 30 years old and still pretty as can be, IMO.


Industrial level durability calls for hard anodizing, which IIRC is usually black or clear. Jesem does this. My fuel pump georotor, housing and the aircraft hose ends in my car are manufactured this way.

I think their router table, lift and fence offer good value; it's only a little more than the Kreg and Jessem and are way more robust. The lift is peerless with the quick full travel and the fence looks like it could go on a shaper.

Other stuff for sure is big bread for what it is.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

There's a lot of wisdom in Paul's post. I do have a few of Woodpecker's tools and am happy that I have them. The quality and workmanship is very evident. I had a friend chidding me when I got into astronomy and imaging. I have a 12.5" RC professional grade telescope and dedicated CCD camera fro imaging and neither cost was "reasonable" for most people. Well astronomy and imaging isn't for most people but the chide was actually funny when I turned the subject to his saltwater aquarium and his love of playing golf. But that was of course different. I was amazed how much he had invested in the saltwater aquarium even before he added the coral and fish. And you can't/wouldn't want to eat the fish if it died. Well maybe you could but that's on you. For most it's the flush. And don't get me started what people spend to play golf and then drink beer afterwards. So I guess it really is a personal thing and one that is unique to each person. Evidently there are enough people who feel it is worthwhile or these companies would not be in business regardless how great their product is. 

That said, some who have that skill to be able to create excellent flawless work with the bare minimum tools are to be envied. Most of us need a bit more help and quality tools is very beneficial. I never thought I would be buying Festool tools but have acquired both a refurbished track saw which I absolutely love and a new Domino 500 which was acquired using my PayPal account and special 24 month no interest payments. I have no issue using other people's money free to acquire something I want. Otherwise I probably would have made a few monthly payments costing me even more. The kicker with the Domino is that spending that much opens a huge amount of joinery that would have taken me a much longer time to learn to do by hand but it comes with only one of the five cutters and no tenons. So yes, I'll buy what I see the real value in for me and there will always be someone who just won't get it and that's OK. 

It reminds me of a Rikon bandsaw ad I saw at one of the retail stores. They list the bandsaw and then all the upgrades. Am I buying the right tool if I need to consider upgrades then or soon after? I have nothing against Rikon but why not have entry level and then fully equipped models. You bought a model then the upgrades so now you have parts no longer being used and inferior? Not the best spending option is it? Of course the whole thing really boils down to if you're deriving an income from your efforts or it's a hobby. Then the picture is different altogether. A business has tax advantages and costs passed onto the buyer so it becomes a bit easier to justify. For the rest of us it becomes more a question of disposable income. It's a lot like my study on hand planes. I like the idea of learning the art of using hand tools but I'm not about to let loose of my jointer, planner, table saw, band saw, and so on but I can go the hybrid shop route and that offers a bit of everything. Hand planes for those boards I can't run on my 8" jointer or 13" planner, or for highly figured woods. Even sanding has problems with that sometimes but buying high quality hand planes isn't cheap. There's Veritas which are made in China but have very high quality control, Lie-Nielsen made in Maine, and Clifton made in Sheffield, England. They all come highly recommended but are expensive $$$$. $350 for a jointer plane seems to be about the norm as well as the smoothing planes. Again, justified? Only you can say for yourself. If bought and used properly, cared for properly, you'll have a heirloom to pass on and would last a lifetime. Of course that would mean more to me if I wasn't starting that search now at 65  Maybe yard sales and estate sales would be a good place to start looking for those old cherished Stanley planes as long as you feel confident to restore them and get needed parts.

Just saying. If it makes your life easier, is more safe, does a better job, you can afford or justify it, doesn't cost you any peace with your better half, doesn't take away from other obligations ( I think you may be sensing a theme here) go for it. If for a moment you feel you may have regret afterwards, hold off a bit and see how much it tugs at you. If it would just end up sitting on a shelf proudly displayed and seldom if ever used.....well that's another story.


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

Veritas are made in Canada Steve


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> @tulowd Paul, Good points. I own two Woodpecker items. One is the router table mounting plate for my Triton. Thick, strong, twist lock inserts, and nice looking to boot. The other item is their fence gauge, which has enabled me to get everything parallel, miter slot, blade, fence. Also discovered my fence is about 3-4 thousandths irregular along its length. Negligible, but nice to know how accurate it really is. I do like precision, at least as much as is possible with wood. The gauge is also kind of handsome.


Tom , I purchased that same gauge in order to check my table saw , as it was recommended by members here . May have been you actually. 

It confirmed my arbour was out .0002” , just like the specs on the info provided with the saw .
I also used to check the alignment of the miter channel to the blade and to align the run out on my fence . It’s been a pretty handy gauge so far , but expensive


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

mimac said:


> Veritas are made in Canada Steve


I was just repeating what I had read. Looking a bit further I saw postings where the irons (blades) are made in Taiwan. That isn't an automatic deduction as it all boils down to onsite quality control and their testing standards. I have contacted Veritas for their response. Thanks for correcting me.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"China"vs"Taiwan" Not the same; Worlds apart quality wise in my own experience.


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## gmedwards (Oct 12, 2018)

FWIW, the Woodpecker triangle is a second release. I bought one when it was first released in 2017. I use it often, and am glad to have it. Is is overpriced? Maybe. However, there was enough demand to release it again.

Look at TSO products' webside. They have a similar product (18") that's $10 cheaper. The TSO version has dog holes designed to be used with the Festool MFT3, which is a big plus for Festool MFT3 owners. BTW, the TSO guide rail square, which clamps to Festool guide rails, is very slick and works very well. 

The cost versus utility issue has been around for a long time, and will probably be around forever. There are folks who wouldn't give up their Festool Kapex chop saw, and others who think it's insane to spend $1,495 for any chop saw. Who's right? Depends on what features you want, and what you can afford. 

There are times I choose to make do, because the cost/benefit favors making do. Other times, it's worth the cost - at least to me. When it comes to tools, don't we all go through some sort of cost/benefit analysis, even if unconsciously? 

Gary


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The quality/cost thing applies to me. I bought my tools while my income was higher, but today the income has gone down, so I'm more careful about what I buy. But I have no regrets whenever I pick up a nice tool from my "flush" period. Breath problems and unreliable voice have cost me plenty in annual income, but now I have time to spend fiddling in the shop. But every once in awhile I run across something like this that I'd have just ordered a couple of years ago. The 12 inch model is a temptress, but I get by with my Rockler triangle or an engineering square I bought years ago.


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## sgcz75b (Jan 8, 2019)

DesertRatTom said:


> @tulowd Paul, Good points. I own two Woodpecker items. One is the router table mounting plate for my Triton. Thick, strong, twist lock inserts, and nice looking to boot. The other item is their fence gauge, which has enabled me to get everything parallel, miter slot, blade, fence. Also discovered my fence is about 3-4 thousandths irregular along its length. Negligible, but nice to know how accurate it really is. I do like precision, at least as much as is possible with wood. The gauge is also kind of handsome.


That is a good-looking gauge. It's one of those things you might not need often, but when you do, you've got a precision tool. 

Now I have gauge envy.

Steve


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## Larkan (Apr 13, 2012)

Like the idea of the fence gauge Tom. A bit xy here though $230 AUD I'm envious it would be handy.
Cheers



DesertRatTom said:


> @tulowd Paul, Good points. I own two Woodpecker items. One is the router table mounting plate for my Triton. Thick, strong, twist lock inserts, and nice looking to boot. The other item is their fence gauge, which has enabled me to get everything parallel, miter slot, blade, fence. Also discovered my fence is about 3-4 thousandths irregular along its length. Negligible, but nice to know how accurate it really is. I do like precision, at least as much as is possible with wood. The gauge is also kind of handsome.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Larkan said:


> Like the idea of the fence gauge Tom. A bit xy here though $230 AUD I'm envious it would be handy.
> Cheers


That is an outlandish price. I paid far less back when I bought it, but that was US dollars. It is a tool I really like to use. Really interesting method they used to make it center in the miter slot. Two small free standing steel rods lay flat in the slot, a third on the tool registers between the two, making them fill out the slot completely. Perfect registration method, and a nice case to keep it all together. If money were loose again, I'd probably pop for the 12 inch speed square for frame making.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Larkan said:


> Like the idea of the fence gauge Tom. A bit xy here though $230 AUD I'm envious it would be handy.
> Cheers


Yeah, I like it too. I would seldom use one tho, BUT after looking at the picture, and reading what Tom said, think I can make a working version for less than $20 USD, depending on how pricey a gauge I bought. Amazon prices start at around $12 I think. Got other things more important, but may give it a shot one day.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> $220 Speed Square!!??!! What? :surprise:
> 
> Got an offer for a new Woodpecker item, a "Precision" oversized speed square in 18 inch and 12 inch sizes. The smaller one is only $150. That includes a wooden case, and for $330, you can get both. Order in metric or imperial.
> 
> ...


I have a 12" aluminum square (mine by Empire but Swanson makes one also) and found that it wasn't giving good results, depending on which of the three surfaces on the base leg were used. I took it to a local machine shop and had them take a light cut on all four surfaces to true it up. Business was slow so they charged me a whole $25 to put it on a milling machine and true it up, and included a demo on their CMM (coordinate measuring machine) of the results for me. If I'd realized how good a deal that was, I'd have run down to Lowes/HD and picked up a couple more. Photos show me checking the finished part against my Woodpeckers' square, last two with the inside faces hooked onto the machined edge of the table saw.


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## OldCurmudgeon (Feb 25, 2012)

I have a few of their rulers, bought when the price seemed appropriate for the increased accuracy compared to what I already had. I was very disappointed by the readability of the numbers - white on red is quite hard for me to see, and the numbers are TINY. My other rulers and squares are black on aluminum - much easier on the eyes. If I pay a premium, I want to able to actuality enjoy using the tool... Squinting brings headaches... 

I also have their drill press add-on table. There I don't need to read numbers, just set it up for the particular project I'm working on. It is a good product, holds the material well (with multiple options) and is easy to use. The quality is similar to Rockler's (blue vs. red...) Don't remember how much it cost, but it must have been reasonable at the time (I always buy at reasonable prices; however the definition of 'reasonable' is subject to change...).

In addition, I also have their small square (4" I think) - very handy, particularly with the ability to mark two faces without moving the square. Once again, hardly any need to read the numbers. Price was reasonable too...

I am considering buying their router lift, but it's still in competition to similarly priced lifts from Kreg, JessEm and Rockler (and all are currently over budget for me).


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

OldCurmudgeon said:


> I have a few of their rulers, bought when the price seemed appropriate for the increased accuracy compared to what I already had. I was very disappointed by the readability of the numbers - white on red is quite hard for me to see, and the numbers are TINY. My other rulers and squares are black on aluminum - much easier on the eyes. If I pay a premium, I want to able to actuality enjoy using the tool... Squinting brings headaches...
> 
> I also have their drill press add-on table. There I don't need to read numbers, just set it up for the particular project I'm working on. It is a good product, holds the material well (with multiple options) and is easy to use. The quality is similar to Rockler's (blue vs. red...) Don't remember how much it cost, but it must have been reasonable at the time (I always buy at reasonable prices; however the definition of 'reasonable' is subject to change...).
> 
> ...



I can tell you the Woodpecker router lift is much faster to use for bit height and bit changes than anything else I've seen in my OCD hunt for a router lift. The idea of disconnecting the lift and positioning the router in 1 second really makes the crank style seem archaic and needlessly time consuming. The micro adjuster and locking feature are also machine shop precision level.

I closed my eyes and choked when I spent the $1000 on a table top, fence and lift; but I'm glad I bought the best thing out there and have enjoyed modding it to fit into my limited space. The quality really is over the top, despite the Rolls Royce line of credit required.


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## OldCurmudgeon (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks, Paul. That's very valuable to know.


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