# Lucky me... a new cyclone!



## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

I couldn't find the place to post this....

I am getting a Clear Vue Cyclone... it is on its way to me and should be here any day. This is really exciting for me, to have this excellent machine to keep the shop clean. I have read loads of information at their website and forum but I wondered, does anyone have any interesting tips, photos, etc. on how they connected their cyclone to their router table, or any other machine?

~Julie~


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

Hi Julie,
Congratulations on your purchase! I installed a cyclone about 2 years ago and it's made a tremendous difference in the cleanliness of my shop.

Your router table hook-up depends on your how your table is configured. If you have your router in an enclosed cabinet you can probably get by with a 4" or 5" duct to your cabinet and forgo the dust collection to your fence. On my original table (about 12' from my cyclone) I had one 5" duct hooked to my enclosed cabinet. Here is the fitting I used. The cabinet dimensions were approx. 18" x 18" x 16". This set-up was more than adequate to collect all of the dust from beneath the table. In fact, it would actually create drag when running a piece over the router plate until I added additional air inlet holes! Speaking of inlet holes, you'll also need sufficient inlet air to cool the router. I drilled ten 1 1/4" holes in the door of my table to cool the router and balance the airflow.

If you plan on pattern routing you'll probably want to add a wye and have two drops to the table in order to hook up to something like this guard.

You'll find that the cyclone systems are very powerful but must have the proper duct sizing and layout to ensure optimal operation. I'm not sure about the level of support you received from Clear Vue (system layout with duct sizing, etc.) but ductwork sizing and layout is critical. Good luck!


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't have a cyclone but I've been eyeing them and have heard nothing but good about Clear Vue both before and after the sale.

In the meantime I'm setting up a Jet DC1100 as a roll-around (bought it for less than freight, compared to new). It is "rated" 1100 CFM and has a 6" hose. I noticed Clear Vue has a rather interesting 6" to dual 4" compact wye. I'm considering one for my router table for above and below gathering. It's unusual but attractive so i've attached some pictures. They sell for $35 or 3/$100, so they are priced similar to a wye. Probably not as efficient but a heckuva lot more compact!

Joe.. thanks for a source for 6" hose to machine flanges. Just what I'm looking for!


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Jim just out of curiosity, have you run PVC for your main run then just use flex where you connect to an appliance? I have been thinking along those lines. Seems it would remain cleaner and give better service than the flex.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Jerry

ive read and heard that galvinized pipe is better for the main trunk. i dont have a clue, but im sure i dont want galvinized pipe


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

BigJimAK,
No problem. Those flanges are heavy duty and work very well. I love the look of that 6" to dual 4". I would love to see dust traveling through it.

xplorx4,
Rigid pipe (whether metal or plastic) is more efficient than flex because there is less drag.

There is a lot of good information at Oneida Air. I bought the 3hp Dust Gorilla from them along with all the ductwork. They provide consultation and a free shop plan when you buy your system from them. They also modified my plans after I added tools two years later at no charge.

Joe


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Joe,

You've probably seen this already but here's a good information site on DC's.

Bill's Cyclone Dust Collection Research - Home Page


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

BigJimAK said:


> Joe,
> 
> You've probably seen this already but here's a good information site on DC's.
> 
> Bill's Cyclone Dust Collection Research - Home Page


BigJimAK,
I have. But thanks for providing the link. The site looks like it has changed a lot since I visited. It is well worth every woodworker's time to study the information provided on this site.

Joe


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

levon said:


> hi Jerry
> 
> ive read and heard that galvinized pipe is better for the main trunk. i dont have a clue, but im sure i dont want galvinized pipe


 Hi Levon:

One advantage of using metal pipe is that one doesn't need to run the grounding conductors inside and out. Just make sure each joint makes a good electrical connection (e.g. a screw joining the two pieces at the joint.)

Cassandra


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Levon:
> 
> One advantage of using metal pipe is that one doesn't need to run the grounding conductors inside and out. Just make sure each joint makes a good electrical connection (e.g. a screw joining the two pieces at the joint.)
> 
> Cassandra


This is the subject that will bring out the opinions. Some say you don't need to use a ground wire for PVC. Others (myself included) say it is used for static. Not that it will create a fire, but because it makes your hair stand on end.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi All:

After reading Bill Pentz’s webpages, I decided to build my own cyclone separator – lost cost version.

Material List:
1.	Dust collector (King 590FM, 3/4 HP, 120V)
2.	One automatic vacuum power switch (Lee Valley Tools)
3.	One 77 litre Rubbermaid plastic trash bin
4.	ABS pipe (4 inch), cut to length
5.	Two 1/4"x24”x24” plywood
6.	One 1/8”x24”x24” hardboard
7.	One 4” dust port, angled
8.	Six L-brackets (to mount ABS pipe to plywood, hardboard ramp to ABS pipe, hardboard baffle to hardboard ramp)
9.	#10-24 machine screws and nuts
10.	Two 1/4-20 bolts and wing nuts (to hold assembly to trash bin)

Construction:
1.	Drill penetrations in one plywood piece, for ABS pipe and dust port
2.	Route 1/8” deep groove to receive top lip of trash bin
3.	Mount ABS pipe to plywood
4.	Cut hardboard ramp (see Bill Pentz’s site to determine inside and outside curves of ramp)
5.	Mount ramp to ABS pipe
6.	Mount baffle to ramp
7.	Mount dust port to plywood trash bin lid
8.	Using second piece of plywood, make support for dust collector’s blower
9.	Mount support to plywood trash bin lid
10.	Mount blower to support
11.	Mount power switch to support
12.	Add 1/4-20 bolts to hold plywood lid to trash bin

I was surprised how well this set-up works. After a weekend of woodworking, I empty the trash bin. After several weekends, I clean-out the dust collector’s filter bag. (The bag collects a very fine dust, especially when one is routing or sawing MDF.)

Photo 1 (cr_dc1.jpg): front view of dust collector and separator assembled
Photo 2 (cr_dc3.jpg): front view of assembly removed from trash bin
Photo 3 (cr_dc4.jpg): side view of assembly removed from trash bin
Photo 4 (cr_dc5.jpg): view of dado for trash bin lid plus close-up of ramp (covered in MDF dust)
Photo 5 (cr_dc2.jpg): side view of dust collector and separator assembled

Cassandra


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

Cassandra,
Nice work! Thanks for sharing. I love the idea of using the Rubbermaid can as the collection bin.

Joe


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

AxlMyk said:


> This is the subject that will bring out the opinions. Some say you don't need to use a ground wire for PVC. Others (myself included) say it is used for static. Not that it will create a fire, but because it makes your hair stand on end.


 Hi Mike:

I'm not sure how much of a problem the static is. Of course we are creating an explosive mixture (combustable dust mixed with air), but what is probability of the explosion? If the explosion does occur, with what force? Firecracker or dynamite?

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Rutabagared said:


> Cassandra,
> Nice work! Thanks for sharing. I love the idea of using the Rubbermaid can as the collection bin.
> 
> Joe


 You're very welcome, Joe!

After reading Bill Pentz's site and watching some YouTube videos (mostly on the CV06), I was eager to see whether I could make one. I did. For a test, I was grabbing handfuls of sawdust and throwing them into the end of the hose. Without the filter bag on, there was nothing visible coming out of the blower. I showed my father and he was as incredulous as I was. Air and dust in, air out, no filter. :sold:

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

One thing I should mention about my separator:

I found that when I vacuumed a lot of sawdust at once, the amount of dust going through to the filter bag increased. When collecting dust from the router or table saw, the rate of dust generation is low enough that almost all of the dust ends up in the trash bin. Sweep up the dust and then vacuum the pile into the separator, one gets a fair amount in the bag.

Cassandra


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Julie congrats must be a late birthday present. Now the question is where are the pics.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

xplorx4 said:


> Jim just out of curiosity, have you run PVC for your main run then just use flex where you connect to an appliance? I have been thinking along those lines. Seems it would remain cleaner and give better service than the flex.


Jerry... I am currently leasing, so am not running anything permanent. I plan to buy after the housing market settles. So until I buy, my DC will roll around from machine to machine with a very short piece of flex hose. Not convenient, but functional.

Once I buy, I'm thinking I'll want to set up a central system (?maybe with a cyclone some day?) with either PVC or metal duct with the shortest possible flex hose at the end. Right now I don't know enough to choose between the PVC and metal. What I've read says that your idea of pipe is the way to go; I'm hoping to have my ideas confirmed (or refuted) and learn whether PVC or metal is better from an expert here who knows from experience.

After all, I'm the one who came to this forum with the wild idea of making my table saw extension out of maple strips, mounting the router near the saw and an end vise on the end!

After learning from others here on the forum, I'll end up with 3 seperate "stations". My table saw will remain as purchased, I've built a router table out of MDF and Formica like the experienced people recommended (mounted the router plate the other night & the fence tonight!) and have decided to defer the maple strip workbench until I get some more experience under my belt.


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

nice job


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## papajontk (Nov 20, 2011)

*Dust Collector*

I've enjoyed my Delta Dust Collection system. Ran a line of 2 1/2 inch PVC along the back wall with several openings along the way to attach tool intermittently using a "Y" connection. They sell "gates to block off the flow but I choice a less expensive way. I just put a cap on a 4" piece of PVC ( acts as a plug) and just remove the hose to the tool and insert the "plug". You'll need one plug for each "Y" connection. The system is about 12 yrs old an been faithful to doing the job. Inexpensive as Dust Collector go. I also recommend a bucket inline to trap large pieces of wood that I've listen to bounce around the fan of the Dust Collector once, and the worst part of that was, it was a piece of the project I was working on at the time. Oooppss! there's a redo.... I used a simple 5 gal round bucket and fed the "in" hose at the bottom and the "exit" hose at the top so that heavy items can't continue the trip to the fan of the collection system. If small and portable is your desire the Cyclone dust collection system is a model that attached to the Shop Vac that is around $75 If you go with larger model most are on wheels. and don't take up a large amount of space. I had to add a reducer connection to mine, its a 4 inch line into the fan chamber. I hope this is of help or too late!


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## papajontk (Nov 20, 2011)

*Dust Collector (Addendum)*

I've enjoyed my Delta Dust Collection system. Ran a line of 2 1/2 inch PVC along the back wall with several openings along the way to attach tool intermittently using a "Y" connection. They sell "gates to block off the flow but I choice a less expensive way. I just put a cap on a 4" piece of PVC ( acts as a plug) and just remove the hose to the tool and insert the "plug". You'll need one plug for each "Y" connection. The system is about 12 yrs old an been faithful to doing the job. Inexpensive as Dust Collector go. I also recommend a bucket inline to trap large pieces of wood that I've listen to bounce around the fan of the Dust Collector once, and the worst part of that was, it was a piece of the project I was working on at the time. Oooppss! there's a redo.... I used a simple 5 gal round bucket and fed the "in" hose at the bottom and the "exit" hose at the top so that heavy items can't continue the trip to the fan of the collection system. If small and portable is your desire the Cyclone dust collection system is a model that attached to the Shop Vac that is around $75 If you go with larger model most are on wheels. and don't take up a large amount of space. I had to add a reducer connection to mine, its a 4 inch line into the fan chamber. I hope this is of help or too late! Should you be able to run a pipeline along your shop to avoid pushing the Dust Collector around Search online about grounding the PVC pipe line to avoid a "remote" chance of static discharge to ignite the fine dust.


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## waltswoodworking (Nov 14, 2011)

*New Cyclone*

Freat score on the cyclone. I would install outlets on the fence and in the cabinet..certain operations will use one or the other....I also have PVC all thru my shop with no ground....Have had no problems with it...u can get a lot of PVC from jobsites when they are winding down if you ask...otherwise schedule 20PVC works well also and is much cheaper the schedule 40


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Using a custom acrylic 6"x4"x4" seems a bit excessive when a PVC 6" wye with two 6x4 reducer bushings accomplishes exactly the same thing.
6 in. x 4 in. Schedule 40 PVC Reducer Bushing SPGxS-437-532 at The Home Depot


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Cassandra said:


> I'm not sure how much of a problem the static is. Of course we are creating an explosive mixture (combustable dust mixed with air), but what is probability of the explosion? If the explosion does occur, with what force? Firecracker or dynamite?


Hi Cassandra

I've read a couple of papers on this subject (I believe there's one on line at MIT) as well as having talked the issue through with the HSE (our equivalent of the OHSA in the USA). The concensus is that in order to have a stoichiometrically viable air/wood dust mixture (i.e. one which will ignite and continue to burn) requires a mixture which is almost opaque - with visibility measured in terms of a couple of feet. I'd say this is highly unlikely to occur in a homeshop environment.

A much greater fire hazard occurs because people have a tendency to leave extracted waste material in the extractor drop bin or waste sack overnight. If a sander has been attached to the extraction system then stray abrasive particles will have been collected along with the dust. Should any of these abrasive particles strike metal whilst being drawn to the waste bin/sack they can spark off and cause wood waste around them to start smouldering. Smouldering material in a pile of waste wood material can eventually catch fire, sometimes after many hours. It is a common source of fires in commercial woodworking shops, although there aren't really that many fires each year. At the end of each session/day it is therefore safer to empty out the drop bin or drag the waste sack outside as a preventative measure

Regards

Phil


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## LiLRdWgn (Dec 31, 2011)

Grounding ? I've read a couple of times using PVC pipe for dust collation you need to run a light gage wire from start to finish. Not needed if using metal. What is the reasoning for the grounding ? Is it because of static and dust sticking to the walls of the PVC or the chance of explosion. Dust does explode. Would like more on this subject.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

LiLRdWgn said:


> Dust does explode. Would like more on this subject.


Hi Gene

In large enough concentrations, yes, but I just don't think a hobby shop could come remotely close to such conditions. A very grouned approach to this subject is taken by Cliff at the Wood Nerd site in which he states that, _"There has never, ever been a verified PVC static-caused dust explosion in a home wood shop"_. 

It's worth noting that in industrial dust explosions much of the damage actually results from one or more secondary explosions. These are caused by dust being shaken free from nooks and crannies in the building structure, particularly level surfaces, e.g.tops of machinery, tops of beams, etc and can do more damage than the initial bang. makes a very strong case for keeping your house in order, I'd say. That is also stated clearly in the CCOHS recommendations

If you're up for more technical stuff I'd suggest reading this paper on industrial dust explosions. That paper is based on a survey of industrial explosions and draws some interesting conclusions but the paper I'd recommend more than any other is one written by Dr. Rod Cole of MIT Lincoln Laboratory called "Grounding PVC and Other Dust Collection Myths" which pretty much debunks a lot of the scuttlebut on this subject.

If you're still feeling up for more after that lot, there's always Bill Pentz's excellent site on dust extraction which has to be the most detailed and best researched site on the subject of DC anywhere on the 'net. Enjoy!

Regards

Phil


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## Alan M (Mar 29, 2010)

i would assume that the presvious home made seperater suffers a lot from scrubbing when the barrel gets full. i thimk some kind of comination baffel (like a thien baffel) design would help stop that

also the angle of the inlet is too steep and is reducing effieciency of the seperater by slowing down the air too much and increaseing the resistance on the system.


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## LiLRdWgn (Dec 31, 2011)

Phil P said:


> Hi Gene
> 
> In large enough concentrations, yes, but I just don't think a hobby shop could come remotely close to such conditions. A very grouned approach to this subject is taken by Cliff at the Wood Nerd site in which he states that, _"There has never, ever been a verified PVC static-caused dust explosion in a home wood shop"_.
> Phil


Thanks Phil, Thats a lot of studying. And a lot more than my pea brain can comprehend. So I feel like I'm safe with no more dust than I make. Thanks Again


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

AxlMyk said:


> This is the subject that will bring out the opinions. Some say you don't need to use a ground wire for PVC. Others (myself included) say it is used for static. Not that it will create a fire, but because it makes your hair stand on end.


Don't ever even think that static won't start a fire! I have seen it in industrial situations even with metal pipe when improperly grounded. There is much more static created in plastic pipe.

The reason there is a lack of information on this subject is companies just don't report it. I worked on the grounding on a huge cyclone unit with 12 inch metal pipe that had caught fire. The sprinkler system immediately extinguished it but it was still an unreported fire. I have seen several fires at furniture mills with no other explanation other than static. I have said this before it is easy to ground the air stream, simply run a bare ground wire outside the PVC, on each length of pipe drill a small hole (3/16 approx) fold the wire about 1 inch and insert the fold into the hole and seal with Permagum or duct tape then ground the wire to the DC metal. The airstream alone will create static. You can test this for yourself, simply insert a insulated copper wire into a hole in the pipe, hold the insulated part of the wire and place it close to something you know is grounded. Under some conditions you will see a continuous arc.


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