# To insulate or not too Insulate



## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

Ok only been with forum for about a month or so , some reason shows me as new today since I updated my email address .But onto the question I have a 21 x 18 cement block unattached garage I have my wood shop in . I am just getting into the hobby have a few tools and want to get more and materials to start building some projects . the garage is not insulated only heat source for now is a even pure which barley changes the temps. I though of framing the whole think inside and putting fiberglass insulation in between as well as ceiling then covering with 1/4" osb . And putting foam panels on garage door but that is around $750 project that could get me wood and supplies as well as tools for projects. I plan on running a gas line from house in spring for a vented heater of some sorts so glue etc don't freeze. What would some of you folks do to insulate or not to and save money for supplies.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I think your on the right track . I would do the same, frame the inside and put insulation in the framing .
No easy way to save money on this project in Canada though. You'd be in the thousands.

Just a disclaimer , I am in no way an expert in the field of insulation :grin:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Knowing more specifically where you live would help as it would give us some indication of how extreme and in what range your temperatures and humidity are. There are several issues with working in a cold shop. Fist, as you mention, some of your supplies shouldn't freeze. You also can't use most glues below about 50 degrees and if you are trying to put a finish on something it needs to be warmer than that. Then there is rusting because cast iron doesn't change temperature as quickly as the air around it so humidity can condense on your tools. And if it's cold enough the machines are stiff enough that starting them is very hard on them. If they labour starting up it's too cold for them.

I've always considered insulation a cheap investment that just keeps paying you back over and over. Foam insulation might be a better choice because concrete block is porous and the lime in it attracts moisture. Or use Roxul which is less affected by moisture absorption. Remember that heat rises so the greatest loss is through your ceiling. I would recommend a minimum of R30 and 40-60 would be even better. Mine is about R38 and it's pretty good.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Oh what a cracker.... Rick is advising someone to insulate!!

I need a doctor....I'm just about to bust a gut.

Insulation is money well spent. No point buying tools if the workshop is too cold to use them.
Is it Rick?


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## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Knowing more specifically where you live would help as it would give us some indication of how extreme and in what range your temperatures and humidity are. There are several issues with working in a cold shop. Fist, as you mention, some of your supplies shouldn't freeze. You also can't use most glues below about 50 degrees and if you are trying to put a finish on something it needs to be warmer than that. Then there is rusting because cast iron doesn't change temperature as quickly as the air around it so humidity can condense on your tools. And if it's cold enough the machines are stiff enough that starting them is very hard on them. If they labour starting up it's too cold for them.
> 
> I've always considered insulation a cheap investment that just keeps paying you back over and over. Foam insulation might be a better choice because concrete block is porous and the lime in it attracts moisture. Or use Roxul which is less affected by moisture absorption. Remember that heat rises so the greatest loss is through your ceiling. I would recommend a minimum of R30 and 40-60 would be even better. Mine is about R38 and it's pretty good.



Ya I should have specified I am in western PA temp can drop below zero in winter but not too often I was just looking at the foam board and furring strip route might be a little cheaper especially when I would have to frame inside with fiberglass insulation . only draw back is R Value is low with foam board but feel any is better than none. Right now all I can do is look at my shop too cold to do any projects in requiring glue ups and finishing . will do ceiling as well.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Besides the moisture and tools how about comfort, the shop is warm and is cool in the summertime you'll spend more time there and you will enjoy it more.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Howdy, I live in the high desert where the coldest we've gotten is 4 degrees f. Summer it sticks around 100-105. My garage walls are already insulated, but the ceiling is not. We just had a long string on insulation and heating that really covered the waterfront on your questions. But in brief, it boils down to Roxol for your situation is probably best choice for walls. Does not react to moisture.

I have a roll up, steel door with about 22x48 panels. I insulated it last summer with a combination of shiny (like aluminum) surfaced bubble wrap about 1/4 thick, a layer of 1.5 inch foam at about $22 per sheet (used 4), then a second layer of bubble wrap. Total R value is close to 12-13. I then scrubbed the door steel very clean and sealed the insulation in with aluminum duct tape. That closed off air leaks and trapped all the insulation. It really helps.

I'll spare you the gory details of the ceiling, which I'm having done for a cost of about $2300 or so. It will be R38 with half inch dry wall. Its the garage, so there's a gas dryer out there I'll turn on empty to heat the place up. I only do wood prep out in the garage, so don't spend long hours there. A shed doesn't have to account for air flow for a water heater, so you won't have to leave vents in place. Although I am thinking of air source vent to the water heater through the outside, but not sure about code yet.

Without insulation, heating and an AC, you won't enjoy your shop nearly as much as with. Let's face it, this is not necessarily a cheap hobby, although you can reduce costs by careful tool selection and even buying used items. There's no rush, just get basic tools when you need them, or when you run into a great buy.

Dust collection is another thing that's easy to put off, but when you start coughing from the sawdust, it will be a little too late since the really find sawdust cannot be expelled from your lungs.

Since you're kind of new to this topic, you might find the following article helpful, It is about the 17 things that really helped me got going with woodworking over the last decade or so. Just click on the link to read it and many comments from others with their helpful ideas as well. http://www.routerforums.com/featured-topics/75457-17-things-accelerate-your-learning-curve.html


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## tmyers (Jan 11, 2017)

I am preparing to insulate my humble wood shop. Found out wife, her brother and father built this shed before I was in the family. Let me tell you it is a bit comic. I measured the stud spacing and it is reasonably close to 16" O/C but the trusses measure out to around 27.5" O/C. I mentioned it to my wife and she laughed, yep my brother and dad finished framing the roof and found two trusses they forgot to install. They just eyeballed the spacing. I have no clue as to how hard it was to cut the sheathing to fit their oddball spacing.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...and found two trusses they forgot to install."
Lol! First time I've ever heard of someone losing a truss or two on a jobsite. 
How do you lose a pair of trusses?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

tmyers said:


> They just eyeballed the spacing. I have no clue as to how hard it was to cut the sheathing to fit their oddball spacing.


The amount of waste can be tremendous. The best policy if you've done that is to strap it with lumber and install metal roofing.


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## tmyers (Jan 11, 2017)

All I could do was shake my head and walk away. You just can't make this stuff up. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

Are you going to add a floor and insulate it?

Insulation with a low R value will not retain the heat, cause your heater to run more to keep the temperature constant and increase the cost of heating the shop. Installing the minimum -- even better more than the minimum R-value insulation -- is a one time cost, energy costs only increase.

See what Cherryville Chuck posted about insulation.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Insulate Noticed one item not mentioned: wet-stones, if they freeze they will break - good ones are not cheap


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I think your on the right track . I would do the same, frame the inside and put insulation in the framing .
> No easy way to save money on this project in Canada though. You'd be in the thousands.
> 
> Just a disclaimer , I am in no way an expert in the field of insulation :grin:



I read this and thought I was on the joke of the day page...........
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: 

Go RainMan 2.0........


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## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

There is a concrete floor already .I am going with 2" rigid insulation with 2x2 every 16" on center and 1/2 OSB on top and ceiling will get r31fiberglass batts and covered with OSB


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

My engineer son figured out the effectiveness of insulating my shop. I forget the numbers but the bottom line is that without insulation my 43,000 btu heater would run all the time during the winter, but with it should be able to maintain temps quite easily and run far less often. I'd rather spend the money for insulation than watch it go up the chimney. I think you're going to be very happy if you insulate.
Someone asked if you're going to build a floor...that's one of the things I'd do in a heartbeat if I could afford to. That would allow running dust control piping and electricity under the floor to the bigger tools like the table saw, jointer and thickness planer. It would also be a lot more comfortable to stand on for long periods of time. I'd also throw some insulation in there...that concrete slab has to be a big heat sink.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Insulate- that's a given. Framing in the walls would be a real task. You could consider gluing foam insulation to the walls- two layers if necessary. I have a cheap garage door in my shop which is part of the basement. I closed it off several years ago as everything was covered in wood dust. The garage door let a lot of air in as I could see the sawdust blowing across the floor on windy days! SWMBO took it on herself and stapled Visqueen around the door. It helped a lot. On windy days I can see the plastic bowing in but the shop stays fairly warm. An IR heater can raise the temp 10 degrees in no time.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

My very first workshop was in a 1 car concrete block garage in Southern NY State, so the temperatures there were very similar to where you are. I used foam insulation, but bought the 2" thick insulation and framed the walls with 2X3 studs. I used 6" fiberglass insulation in the suspended ceiling (I got the ceiling free, so used it). On the wooden roll-up garage door I used the dense 3/4 foam insulation with the reflective foil on one side, cut into wide strips and then glued and screwed to the frame of each door section. My biggest door problem was the leak around the edges of the door. The two steel casement windows were another significant heat loss, but I made frames and covered them with plastic to use as storm windows, not great, but it helped. 

I had a 20,000 btu kerosene space heater that I ran with one of the windows slightly open, to get the shop warmed up in the coldest weather, but then switched to an electric space heater and closed the window while working there in the cold weather. The electricity source for the shop was one 20 amp 120 volt circuit, so I had to turn off the heat whenever using the table saw or planer, and then turn it back on as soon as I finished using the tools. I kept my batteries, glue, and water based paints in totes so I could keep them in the house when not working in the shop 

My point is, that it took about an hour to warm the shop enough to be able to work out there in the very cold weather, and hauling the batteries, glue, and paint back and forth was a pain, but I was able to spend most of every day in the shop that I wanted to work there, and was comfortable, once I warmed the place up. I didn't like the kerosene smell or the hazards associated with it, but with care I managed to use my shop safely in cold weather. Insulation is very important and you will need all you can put in, but it is possible to to work out there if you put the effort and money into insulation and a good heat source. 

To avoid the need to carry the batteries and paint to the house, you can store them in an old refrigerator (don't run it) if you wire it with a 100 watt light bulb inside and near the bottom that stays on all the time. The bulb will keep the space inside warm enough for your batteries and paint, but turn the bulb off when the temperatures outside will be above freezing.

Don't skimp on your insulation. You will regret it if you go cheap. The dense foam works best for moisture reasons when placed against the concrete. Use treated lumber for the wall framing. I used 1/2" plywood for sheathing and painted it white. You can hang anything, anywhere if you go with plywood walls. I can't give you reasonable cost comparisons because it was 50 years ago that I had that workshop. 

Charley


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

tmyers said:


> I am preparing to insulate my humble wood shop. Found out wife, her brother and father built this shed before I was in the family. Let me tell you it is a bit comic. I measured the stud spacing and it is reasonably close to 16" O/C but the trusses measure out to around 27.5" O/C. I mentioned it to my wife and she laughed, yep my brother and dad finished framing the roof and found two trusses they forgot to install. They just eyeballed the spacing. I have no clue as to how hard it was to cut the sheathing to fit their oddball spacing.


Hi, interesting problem. You might consider installing spacers between the joists, set on 16 or 24 inch centers so you divide the ceiling into sections. You can then tightly fit the insulation into each chamber. This would likely be the cheapest way to handle your ceiling problem. My shed had a similar problem, but the spacing was within an inch and a half of being on 24 inch centers, so I stuffed the short spaces with foam, put in the batt insulation, and put up 2 inch thick foam (closely fitted to each space) to hold everything in. I have not put up drywall yet because the foam is sealing everything in nicely, but it would probably be a good idea.

My shed has a 1 inch ply floor and sits on three 4x6 beams with ply reinforcement. This all sits on a 6 inch bed of crushed rock and was a terrible heat sink. There was no practical way to insulate it, so I built a skirt and sealed the below floor space in with stone piled 2-3 inches deep around the skirt. This helped.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Are the exterior blocks sealed? Is there a ceiling? 2x2 will allow 1 1/2" of insulation. I believe rigid insulation provides half the R value and for almost twice the price of fiberglass roll. ( 32 sq ft R7.5 @$24.00 in 2x2 wall verses 40 sq ft R-13 @ $15.93 in a 2X4 wall ) If you are pricing it 2x4 vs 2x2 walls consider how you will fasten 2x2 to wall. Probably 2 3/4 tapcons @ $.32 ea The framing lumber costs will be half but you will spend time ripping it down. I think project costs will be less expensive by hand nailing 2x4 studs and using fiberglass. Additional benefit of 2x4 will be deeper electrical boxes which allow for more wires to make up splices. So make a shop floor plan and enjoy. BTW I do have a vent free gas heater I packrated its free if you want to pick it up in Delaware


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@CharleyL Using an old refrigerator for storage is a GREAT idea. I built an insulated cabinet with a small bulb in it to keep my shop computer from freezing. But a retired refer would be a much easier and better solution. A+ for that suggestion, I'm going to go looking for one for my glue and other temp sensitive stuff.


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## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

Semipro said:


> Besides the moisture and tools how about comfort, the shop is warm and is cool in the summertime you'll spend more time there and you will enjoy it more.


I live in Ohio and insulating my shop made it infinitely more usable. Attached two car garage, had the benefit of keeping the hose warmer also and in addition keeps the noise level down outside of the home when using power tools. 

Since my neighbors master bedroom backs up fairly close to my garage, this is a huge benefit. 
:smile:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

paduke said:


> Are the exterior blocks sealed? Is there a ceiling? 2x2 will allow 1 1/2" of insulation. I believe rigid insulation provides half the R value and for almost twice the price of fiberglass roll. ( 32 sq ft R7.5 @$24.00 in 2x2 wall verses 40 sq ft R-13 @ $15.93 in a 2X4 wall ) If you are pricing it 2x4 vs 2x2 walls consider how you will fasten 2x2 to wall. Probably 2 3/4 tapcons @ $.32 ea The framing lumber costs will be half but you will spend time ripping it down. I think project costs will be less expensive by hand nailing 2x4 studs and using fiberglass. Additional benefit of 2x4 will be deeper electrical boxes which allow for more wires to make up splices. So make a shop floor plan and enjoy. BTW I do have a vent free gas heater I packrated its free if you want to pick it up in Delaware


Totally agree on the 2x4 walls with conventional insulation of some sort. Foam board is not very effective for insulation. The areas where I've put in foam, I've also used the silver-like bubble insulation, which helps a little. In fact, I also put that in along with the batts which ups R13 to about R19 and also reflects infrared radiation going in or out. The one difference that may be important in choice of insulation material would be that I live in the desert and moisture is not a problem here, as it might be in a different climate. In that case, Roxul would be my choice. If I used that stuff, I'd make sure the studs were set on center with precision.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> No easy way to save money on this project in Canada though. You'd be in the thousands.


It's hard to even find the garage.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Because you have odd spacing in your ceiling I would suggest blown in cellulose at least 1 foot thick. The places you buy it from will often loan you a machine to blow it in with. It's at least a 2 man job as someone has to feed the bundles into the machine while someone else sprays it. It might be a good idea to install the air tubes (can't remember the proper name at the moment) at the eaves to prevent closing the air flow there off. Refer to the thread that (Desert Rat) Tom referred to about the importance of that.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Insulate!*



Pawoodsman said:


> There is a concrete floor already .I am going with 2" rigid insulation with 2x2 every 16" on center and 1/2 OSB on top and ceiling will get r31fiberglass batts and covered with OSB


Sounds a bit problematic, PAW. For starters, you need to run the plywood long dimension perpendicular to the 2x2 framing; this means the long edges of the plywood are unsupported except by the insulation. You _will_ have some sagging at those edges and they _will _eventually get trashed. The absolute minimum would be Tongue and Groove 5/8" plywood. Eventually you'll want to put heavy weight on it ...tablesaw, floor mounted jointer possibly, maybe even a lathe. 
Do it right the first go-around and you'll never regret it.
Two thumbs up on the floor insulation; you might want to consider 1 1/2" only because it'll sit level with 2x2 common lumber whereas the 2" insulation will be sticking up above the framing...if I understood your description correctly.
ALSO... you need to put down a vapor barrier if only to protect your floor framing from coming into contact with the concrete over a long period of time. It _will _rot!
Concrete and wood do not do well together


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

take some high yield short cuts to that framed wall...

install unfaced 2x8' panels of blue or pink polystyrene and NOT the white Styrofoam. horizontally...
we do this in 2 or 2.5" because of sustained very low negative double digit temperatures.. depending on climate, 1.5" is all you may need...
start the lay up w/ a "J" or a "U" channel at the floor.. put them in horizontally (channel and styrene)... spot glue the panels and add a "Z" metal at each 2' seam as a clip to hold the styrene and to function as a furring strip...
continue up the wall...

With this type of construction you can start in any corner and begin your sheathing/DW'ing head on down the wall... The drop for that wall then can be carried around to the next wall and carried on... Try not to match up sheathing and DW vertical seams...

the order is "U" channel (at the floor), styrene, "Z" channel, (continue sequence to the ceiling) and finish with a "U" channel at the ceiling.... vertically "U" channel the corners and also around the windows and doors...

Z-Furring Channel | ClarkDietrich Building Systems

I use 22/24GA channel.. anything less will compromise strength come "hang it on wall" time..
install the channels and "Z's" to the concrete/block wall w/ tapcons - often.. 12"OC is highly recommended and forget using a Ramset or Hilti... "blow outs" and poor "sets" will screw w/ the overall mission.... 
besides, tapcons are hold night and day better over shot in pins...

now hang, w/ screws, at least 1/2" sheathing on the wall, vertically... we use CDX ply over OSB because OSB won't hold fasteners nearly as well as real ply... this is the voice of experience here... 
those that do use OSB use the true 1/2" plus and not the 7/16"... again, VOE...
w/ hanging vertically there is a lot less waste and seam placement is moot...

coming out of corner...
vertical "U" channel...
horizontal "Z's" and styrene... 
vertical sheathing into the corner...
now install the other vertical "U" channel on the opposing wall.... continue on w/ that wall...
fit/finish/strength and ease of install is greatly improved... VOE...

since code/insurance/building departments see this as a shop.. 
Drywall the sheathing...
hang it vertically as long as the seams for the DW and sheathing don't lay up on each other...
fire tape it...
paint...
here we are required to use "type X" DW...

the sheathing gives you any time/place nailers... you want something to hang right there.. go for it.. it'll be all cake and pie...
the styrene is about the most "R" value you can pack into the wall in less space...
Fire rock is self explanatory...
It will take a while for you to comprehend how comfortable your shop has become and how much less HVAC it will take to to get there...

Suggest you surface mount your electric in conduit...
you get to have what you want/need exactly where it needs to be and changes are cake and pie to do... 

And for those that have studded walls....

Here's your Mooney wall...

Mooney Wall -- A low cost, high R value wall

Slight change.. Instead of 2x2's go with “Z” channel and capture the foam board and make life easier on yourself.... fasten the channel to the studs w/ K lath screws...
http://www.clarkdietrich.com/product...furring-channe 

one of the attributes of a Mooney wall is sound deadening...
and file a complaint about their sniveling....


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## CamoJoe (Aug 19, 2015)

I live in Michigan and had a similar type of Garage, (cinder block). When we bought that first house there were old strips of plastic hanging from the ceiling all over the place. First thing I did was tear it all out. But I kept that in mind, and sure enough that first Fall I found out how drafty my shop was. 

I had neither the time or the money to do what your thinking about doing. This garage had a steep roof and a pull down staircase (3ft. Wide). So, I started by closing off the ceiling with plywood (making excellent storage upstairs). 

That helped a lot. Buying a couple of sheets at a time, if and when I had the money, I got it done by the first real cold days of winter. I had heat that winter with a construction heater. It was actually much less expensive than even getting a firewood stove.

Best advice I can give is this, tackle insulation a little at a time and you won't notice the expense but you will get what you want. 

My house now has a wood frame garage, attached to the house. I have done very little insulating, still use a construction heater (sometimes) and a sweatshirt. I still live in Michigan about 30 miles from Lake Michigan, with plenty of lake effect weather. 

My tools are just fine, I do use protectant on them. My finishes are almost always solvent based (especially when it's cold out) and I only use the heater before I finish. I bring my projects into the house about a day before I finish them to warm up. If it is too cold out, which is unusual, I will either wait or bring it into the house and use waterborne varnishes. 

I have worked in the ink and coatings industry and do have an A.S. degree in Chemistry and a B.S. In Technical Scientific Studies. Look for the solvents in your finishes, (I.e. Mineral Spirits, Acetone, Lacquer Thinner...etc.). Then look for a Material Data Sheet on the internet and you can find the evaporation point for that solvent. That will tell you how much warmth you need for your finish to cure. In the end, all finishes "harden" by evaporation of the solvent - even water based.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Geevesmac (Jul 15, 2014)

Insulation is for life, and a great investment in comfort. Easiest to do before you start filling the shop. You will soon forget the $750, but if you don't do it, you will be reminded daily. My strong advice would be to do it now, and then get on to the tools.


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## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Sounds a bit problematic, PAW. For starters, you need to run the plywood long dimension perpendicular to the 2x2 framing; this means the long edges of the plywood are unsupported except by the insulation. You _will_ have some sagging at those edges and they _will _eventually get trashed. The absolute minimum would be Tongue and Groove 5/8" plywood. Eventually you'll want to put heavy weight on it ...tablesaw, floor mounted jointer possibly, maybe even a lathe.
> Do it right the first go-around and you'll never regret it.
> Two thumbs up on the floor insulation; you might want to consider 1 1/2" only because it'll sit level with 2x2 common lumber whereas the 2" insulation will be sticking up above the framing...if I understood your description correctly.
> ALSO... you need to put down a vapor barrier if only to protect your floor framing from coming into contact with the concrete over a long period of time. It _will _rot!
> Concrete and wood do not do well together


Bit of some confusion on my parts was referring to walls with rigid insulation I have a Grizzly hybrid tablesaw polar bare series and matching Jointer in 6" a 14" delta bandsaw a Grizzly low end router table bench / outfeed table a 10 hitachi miter saw on temporary bench and a Ryobi drill press on a Cabinet I made with 3 drawers and casters to move around . I have been watching craigslist so not far from all the tools I would like to have down too Orbital sander combo and someday a drum sander got a Ryobi 10" planer from a friend with new blades for $40 wife wants me to build a new pantry and a hall coat bench / shoe storage and plane on using some cabinet grade plywood and thats going to kill my wallet alone so the thought of $800 + for insulating a unheated detached garage is hard pill to swallow


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## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

CamoJoe said:


> I live in Michigan and had a similar type of Garage, (cinder block). When we bought that first house there were old strips of plastic hanging from the ceiling all over the place. First thing I did was tear it all out. But I kept that in mind, and sure enough that first Fall I found out how drafty my shop was.
> 
> I had neither the time or the money to do what your thinking about doing. This garage had a steep roof and a pull down staircase (3ft. Wide). So, I started by closing off the ceiling with plywood (making excellent storage upstairs).
> 
> ...


I am thinking I may just start off with the ceiling and the garage door I have caulked and spray foamed all the cracks and crannies in the block . If I was only heating it when I was working in the garage a few hours a week I wouldn't worry so much but would like to maintain 45 -50 when not inside to keep glues etc from freezing


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## CamoJoe (Aug 19, 2015)

I keep all my glues in the house during winter. In fact when I use the glue in winter, I bring the workpiece in until the glue is fully set-up.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

My apologies, PA, I thought you were talking about the floor re the quote that I quoted earlier.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

On a tight budget, I would do the project in segments, starting with the ones that will do the most good first. 

Sheetrock or plywood the ceiling and put 6" + of insulation up there. 

Next, I would insulate the garage door and put the vinyl seals around the frame where the door rubs to block drafts.

Third, I would frame the walls with treated lumber and install the 2" blue or pink dense foam insulation. Foam insulation and treated lumber because of moisture possibilities when in contact with the masonry. A plastic vapor barrier against the concrete could be used if going with fiberglass insulation and untreated framing.

I think that doing the ceiling and ceiling insulation will do you the most good for you, so do this first. If you still have a little money left, insulate and seal the garage door. The next time that you have extra money, frame and insulate one wall or 1/2 of a wall. Then go a little further the next time, etc. Each step will make your shop a little more comfortable, but breaking it up in smaller project steps will be easier on the wallet, and give you time between to enjoy making something. 

If you decide that you need more electric power than exists in your building, I would go with at least a 60 amp 240 volt installation as a minimum, with the largest breaker panel or a 100 amp panel so you have the space to add circuit breakers for new tools. Running a dust collector, air compressor, lights and a 3 hp cabinet saw all at the same time will require nearly this much power. Go bigger than this if you think you will ever add onto your shop building, or will ever have more than just you working out there.

For a wood shop you need a good and safe heating, and maybe also cooling system. Temporary space heaters can be dangerous around all this wood and saw dust. Open flame heaters can also be dangerous when painting or using solvents. Choose a heat source that is sealed and vented, and preferably a permanent installation. Your choice will be different than mine, because I live in NC, so I chose a window style heat pump (reversible air conditioner) that I mounted high and thru the North wall of my shop. It runs off a 30 amp 240 circuit and has resistance heat in it for days when it's too cold to get all of the needed heat from the heat pump. This gives me both heat, and air conditioning for the long hot summers here. With an added high efficiency disposable filter added, it also helps keep the fine saw dust out of my shop air and I have no open flames to worry about when painting or using solvents (I do most of this outdoors anyway).

Charley


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## Pawoodsman (Dec 8, 2016)

Thanks for all the input . I am going to do this in stages so I can still have money for tools and supplies for woodworking . I will insulate the ceiling and door and do a wall each month as I can. I just don't want to put all the $$ in it and just go out to the shop to stare at my tools sitting idle lol


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

*Foam insulation and no sheet rock*

We have about finished our little woodworking shed. It is only 17 x 12. We debated what to do about insulating. We decided to go with 2.5 inches of foam. I believe this building is better insulated than my home. We live in Utah and we also know a little bit about cold and hot. We decided not to cover the foam for now with dry wall. We may do so later. But each has a cost. We spent the extra money on the foam insulation. I am not sure if this helps, but it is what we have done. I will be able to tell you more in a year from now. At present, It has with a very small heater remained as has well above 50 degrees F. 

Thanks for reading,


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tagwatts said:


> We have about finished our little woodworking shed. It is only 17 x 12. We debated what to do about insulating. We decided to go with 2.5 inches of foam. I believe this building is better insulated than my home. We live in Utah and we also know a little bit about cold and hot. We decided not to cover the foam for now with dry wall. We may do so later. But each has a cost. We spent the extra money on the foam insulation. I am not sure if this helps, but it is what we have done. I will be able to tell you more in a year from now. At present, It has with a very small heater remained as has well above 50 degrees F.
> 
> Thanks for reading,


50F would be plenty warm for me . I believe tight bond glue wants a minimum of +10C, which is 50F .
I usually wear bibs and a t-shirt in my shop , so it's the heat that bothers me . Actaully I worked for a few hours in -10C in a T-shirt . Much more and it gets to be uncomfortable.
Plus 50 F would be awesome imo , and keep the power consumption down to a minimum


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Obokan 

This threads last post was back in January 2017 so you may not see or receive any response.


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## Charlie68 (Dec 30, 2019)

Off topic a bit but an item in my shop layoff that I put off was dust collection. That was a real mistake for me. I have my wiring done and heavier tools placed but running piping for dust collection now is an issue. I am working at collection but I am dealing with either 2 different vacuum systems or having my shop look like some drunken plumber's nightmare.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

Pawoodsman said:


> Ok only been with forum for about a month or so , some reason shows me as new today since I updated my email address .But onto the question I have a 21 x 18 cement block unattached garage I have my wood shop in . I am just getting into the hobby have a few tools and want to get more and materials to start building some projects . the garage is not insulated only heat source for now is a even pure which barley changes the temps. I though of framing the whole think inside and putting fiberglass insulation in between as well as ceiling then covering with 1/4" osb . And putting foam panels on garage door but that is around $750 project that could get me wood and supplies as well as tools for projects. I plan on running a gas line from house in spring for a vented heater of some sorts so glue etc don't freeze. What would some of you folks do to insulate or not to and save money for supplies.





Pawoodsman said:


> Ok only been with forum for about a month or so , some reason shows me as new today since I updated my email address .But onto the question I have a 21 x 18 cement block unattached garage I have my wood shop in . I am just getting into the hobby have a few tools and want to get more and materials to start building some projects . the garage is not insulated only heat source for now is a even pure which barley changes the temps. I though of framing the whole think inside and putting fiberglass insulation in between as well as ceiling then covering with 1/4" osb . And putting foam panels on garage door but that is around $750 project that could get me wood and supplies as well as tools for projects. I plan on running a gas line from house in spring for a vented heater of some sorts so glue etc don't freeze. What would some of you folks do to insulate or not to and save money for supplies.


I have read your article. I wondered if you could save some money, by having the insulation sprayed on your walls and door and not have to put money into framing. Here again, money does control much of what we can do. Just thought maybe this might give you one more thought.


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