# Shop Heating



## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Hope this is the right place for this post. The temperature hit -17C (-2F) here today and the little ceramic heater I have in the garage is just not cutting it. The garage is insulated but I do need some weather stripping around the roll up door. Other then my little heater there is no other source of heat. I just wonder if any of you have any recommendations. I do not want to use anything with a flame, or any type of fuel. I only have 110/120V service out there. And I would prefer something that doesn't require a vent. The garage is 30' x 15' and is under two bedrooms upstairs. Also this won't be something I leave on all the time, and I know that alternating heat/cold is not good for wood or machinery surfaces but I don't want to go broke paying the electric bill either. 
I don't know much about radiant heaters but I have looked at them. I can't see how something ceiling mounted would be efficient without some kind of fan to force the warm air down. 
Please give me any suggestions or ideas about what you use to heat your shops or garages. 
I'll be checking back tomorrow as I just worked 24 out of 36 hours and I need SLEEP!
Thanks folks!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

In my experience there is no better than a Reznor direct vent, mine rocks. It was 6 degrees last night and I was working in shorts,socks and a T shirt.

No flame, totally enclosed and explosion proof. Over a 1000.00 with install though worth it for me.

http://www.reznor.co.uk/hvac_space_heaters_v3_udsa.htm

http://www.kennspenns.com/heating/reznor.html


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

This is what I suggest you do, because " it's under two bedrooms upstairs"
I would find the heat ducking running to one of the rooms and tee off one or two of them into the garage....(shop) you can always close them off when you don't need the heat in the shop,,, little bit of ducking ( 6" pipe) and you would have the job done..I would not use the return duck, you don't want to pull saw dust in to the house..and plug up the filter.. 

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CanuckGal said:


> Hope this is the right place for this post. The temperature hit -17C (-2F) here today and the little ceramic heater I have in the garage is just not cutting it. The garage is insulated but I do need some weather stripping around the roll up door. Other then my little heater there is no other source of heat. I just wonder if any of you have any recommendations. I do not want to use anything with a flame, or any type of fuel. I only have 110/120V service out there. And I would prefer something that doesn't require a vent. The garage is 30' x 15' and is under two bedrooms upstairs. Also this won't be something I leave on all the time, and I know that alternating heat/cold is not good for wood or machinery surfaces but I don't want to go broke paying the electric bill either.
> I don't know much about radiant heaters but I have looked at them. I can't see how something ceiling mounted would be efficient without some kind of fan to force the warm air down.
> Please give me any suggestions or ideas about what you use to heat your shops or garages.
> I'll be checking back tomorrow as I just worked 24 out of 36 hours and I need SLEEP!
> Thanks folks!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I tried that in my garage the problem is to heat the garage(its under two rooms too) the rest of the house had to be hot and the bill was outrages!

With a dedicated unit I set the garage to 48-50 degrees and turn it up when I go out there. That little Reznor unit uses barley any gas at all compared to an entire house furnace. So if venting off does not work consider it. I need it at least 7 months a year and I ended up saving about 106.00 per month getting the Reznor unit verse venting off my main home system. So it paid for it self in two seasons in my particular case.

There a a lot of factors though, the size and shape of the home and where the main duct run and furnace are from the garage. My main heater is huge we have a big home. I have a second house furnace just for the second floor. Running that main unit to heat the garage just cost to much especially at night when we did not need it warm in the house but I needed it warm in the garage.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

I hung a Grainger unit in my shop, but hanging the furn.is no big deal but getting gas and power to it can be..I put in a 1" gas line from the house about 180 ft. of it,and then it needs to on it's own breaker ( elec. code) and that can be a big deal for most..

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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Deb
> 
> This is what I suggest you do, because " it's under two bedrooms upstairs"
> I would find the heat ducking running to one of the rooms and tee off one or two of them into the garage....(shop) you can always close them off when you don't need the heat in the shop,,, little bit of ducking ( 6" pipe) and you would have the job done..I would not use the return duck, you don't want to pull saw dust in to the house..and plug up the filter..
> ...


Sorry Bob. That is completely against all codes.
Garages contain fumes, and there is to be no ducting between them, and household systems.

Fuel fired heating creates humidity, but that can be managed with de-humidifiers.
You may have to run a 220 line to supply a larger heater. It wouldn't hurt to have that anyway.

I have 2 electrics in my garage. It takes a while to get to 50-55f but they work. I'd like to get a 220 volt heater.
110 volt heaters are no larger than 1500 watts.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I regret to remind you that there are no free meals in this imperfect world of ours, there is ALWAYS a price to pay!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I knew this would be a tough one. I can't really justify the expense of a gas line and 220 power. This is a "hobby" shop and the spouse already thinks I am spending too much on tools and such...lol. Because I don't have adequate dust collection or venting, any open flame or fuel fired heat is out of the question. I considered them (kerosene, propane etc) but common sense and safety first rule.
I thought about running a duct from the furnace out there as bobj3 suggested, but the bedrooms are already cooler then the rest of the house being above the garage and having two outside walls so taking any heat away from them would be really hard on the heating system not to mention that it is against code as AxlMyk pointed out. 
I had hoped someone had found some "AMAZING" electric heater that would do the trick. I have been reading about the EdenPure systems and I can find lots of good AND bad reviews so it's hard to decide. I'll just have to keep searching. Thanks.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

Call a heating contractor . they do make one way door flaps for heating pipes,,I'm not sure where your furn. is but I have seen heat outlets in the garages...that come off the main heating system..it maybe cheaper than running 220 or gas to the shop...

Ask the pro's they will know for sure.. 



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CanuckGal said:


> I knew this would be a tough one. I can't really justify the expense of a gas line and 220 power. This is a "hobby" shop and the spouse already thinks I am spending too much on tools and such...lol. Because I don't have adequate dust collection or venting, any open flame or fuel fired heat is out of the question. I considered them (kerosene, propane etc) but common sense and safety first rule.
> I thought about running a duct from the furnace out there as bobj3 suggested, but the bedrooms are already cooler then the rest of the house being above the garage and having two outside walls so taking any heat away from them would be really hard on the heating system not to mention that it is against code as AxlMyk pointed out.
> I had hoped someone had found some "AMAZING" electric heater that would do the trick. I have been reading about the EdenPure systems and I can find lots of good AND bad reviews so it's hard to decide. I'll just have to keep searching. Thanks.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

> I have been reading about the EdenPure systems and I can find lots of good AND bad reviews so it's hard to decide.


You can forget about this. It's not for a shop environment.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

I hate to be a bringer of gloom. But...
Our temperatures do not go near yours, yet get low enough for the garage to drop to less than 8 degrees C. That is when it becomes uncomfortable to work there for any length of time.

I bought a 120V heater from Crappy Tire. I turned it on full blast. After half an hour the temperature on the thermometer about 8 feet away *dropped* by half a degree. I returned the heater.

Unfortunately 120V is very limiting. Your maximum heating from a standard 15 A outlet is going to be only 1800 W and for a garage your size (or mine for that matter) it is the proverbial drop in the ocean.

I am up to many layers of clothing, hats etc. but that may not be enough for you. Plus it is not conducive to "hobby" activity.

Do you not have any 220V stuff in the house? Range? Washer and dryer? It may be your only realistic option.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Its not hard or complicated to run a dedicated 220 right from your panel or even add a sub panel if you have to.

If you do it yourself and pull a permit the inspector will make sure it is correct.

Almost anywhere will allow a homeowner to do the work themselves(on their own homes only) with the appropriate inspections. Really its not difficult at all. Just pull the permits.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

Sounds like a plan to me, drop in a 220 line then run down to GoodWill /Target and pickup 20 or so toasters and turn them all on LOL LOL LOL then sit back and watch the meter spin.. LOL LOL 


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I have a small 120V 1500W B&D heater I am using out there now, and if I turn this on for a couple of hours and the outside temps are not below -10C I can work reasonably comfortably out there. After -10C it's seems to be impossible to get the inside temperature to budge. If the wind is blowing toward the garage door I can forget going out there completely. But the 2-3 hour pre-heat is a bit annoying.
I could run the 220 wiring myself but the current electrical panel is inconveniently at the opposite end of the house and full, including an electric stove, electric dryer, furnace/HRV unit, air conditioner and indoor hot tub. 
When the spouse is at work, I open the inside door to the house. We have a solid door and a screen door to the garage so I close the screen door with the screen open. This lets in some warm air to the garage and keeps the sawdust out of the house. The spouse is not an advocate of this idea. See it's not always "wives" that nag about our chosen hobby..lol. 
I'm going to talk to a couple of electricians at work and see if I can get one of them out to take a look at things and see what they can do or suggest. I wouldn't mind having 220 out there but I really need to keep the cost of implementing that as far under 1000.00 as possible. In the mean time looks like I'll be shopping for some woolly underwear.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Deb, I know you said no open flame type heaters, but I'm going to suggest you check into a kerosene heater anyway. You could use it to bring the temp up, and then your electric heater might be able to keep it up. 

Brian


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Brian, How safe is that in a small garage with no dust collection or ventilation? I have visions of some type of combustion with any open flames. Am I being unrealistic?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Open flame and heavy wood dust is a no no, add a spark and a flammable gas or liquid to the mix and I would not want to be in there.


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Call 3 contractors & get bids & different ideas.
Being cost effective is one thing, 
having a fire of other safety issues, is unacceptable.
If you have to wait a year, better to be safe, spring only 4 months away.


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

Dear Canuck,

I've had my shop for 30 years, and have had a wood stove, an oil furnace, and now have an electric furnace; the best of all! Sure it takes 220 but a good electrician can addi t without too much trouble I hope!

When I am not in the shop, I set the thermostat down to 40 deg. and it heats up nicely in the mornings that i will be out there.

Look into it, you may be surprised, I was!

Regards, Tom


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

> I'll be shopping for some woolly underwear.


I do not want to teach you to suck eggs, but:
1) Woolly underwear is essential, with several layers on top
2) Wooly hat that can fit under the hearing and face protection
3) Warm boots
4) I found that a rubber mat on the floor insulates somewhat and makes it less hard on the back and the knees if standing for long periods of time

The trick is to keep all this clothing out of the running machinery, too!

We have a howling wind and driving rain today. I spent about 3 hours in the garage and had enough. It does test your dedication to the hobby, doesn't it  ?

Let us know how you get on.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi guys

I blew the 6" of snow off the drive way today ,about 9:00 AM, then open the garage door and pulled the snow blower back into the shop and hit the heater switch and took my jacket off and it was 70 deg. in about 10 mins. or so, then it was shop time for most of the day for me..

If it's worth doing it's worth doing it right 

Just a rub it in post   

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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

nickao65 said:


> Open flame and heavy wood dust is a no no, add a spark and a flammable gas or liquid to the mix and I would not want to be in there.


Hi,

I really hate to say this but, this is also true for electric heaters as well. At work we have several 220V and 430V electric heaters... lets just say, I've seen a few fires as a result of dust build up.

I would suggest getting some type of DC., rather it be a shop vac or a true dust collector. Then worry about heating. If you can't control the dust, no point in trying to heat the "shop".



> Hi guys
> 
> I blew the 6" of snow off the drive way today ,about 9:00 AM, then open the garage door and pulled the snow blower back into the shop and hit the heater switch and took my jacket off and it was 70 deg. in about 10 mins. or so, then it was shop time for most of the day for me..
> 
> ...


Ya, we received about 2inches of "your" white stuff today and low temps.    LOL


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I actually bought some "fleece" thermals last year, they are VERY toasty and I highly recommend them for anyone in northern climates. And they don't ITCH! lol. I believe they are made by Misty Mountain. I wear my safety boots out there and I do have rubber mats I can move around where needed. If it's cold enough to need a hat, I don't need to be out there. 
I have "shop coat" I wear with an extra button at the wrist to tighten up the sleeves. I gave up jewelery 20 years ago because we are not allowed to wear it at work and putting it on and taking it off constantly just got to be annoying. I work as an industrial mechanic on high speed machinery and am on the Emergency Respose Team and have seen some very nasty industrial accidents, so I have learned to value and take care of my eyes, ears, digits and appendages. I always "lock out" or disable electric/pneumatic/hydraulic/ power from moving machinery before working on it. It's not an option at work, it's the LAW and failure to do it can mean immediate termination and a fine not to mention a nasty accident. That practice follows me into my home shop as well. 
I have one retractable extension cord mounted to the ceiling, and I only plug in the machine I am using at the time and unplug it when I'm done. When the grandkids wander into the shop, I don't worry they might "accidently" turn something on as nothing is powered and they can't reach the cord. There is just never such a thing as *TOO SAFE*.
But I digress. We haven't had any serious sub zero days yet this year. I know they are coming and I will look into the 220 options. I appreciate all your suggestions. The several contractor bids sounds like a good idea too. Thanks again!

Oh yes Dust Collection is at the top of the list too! Tired of that trail of sawdust into the house!


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would think sawdust, like most combustibles, would need a fairly large concentration before catching fire. A good shop vac, heck even a cheap one like I have, will take care of most of your sawdust if connected to the machine you are working on. It will NEVER catch all of it of course, but it will get most of it and willl certainly do until you can afford to move onto a dedicated dust collector. 

I've used my kerosene heater, and propane powered Reddi heater while cutting, sanding, and painting with no problems. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.... I use the Reddi heater to heat things up and the kerosene heater to maintain the heat. A note on the Reddi heater, it's one of those torpedo style heater. It works great and heats the garage up quickly but if you use one while you are working it will kill you. I place it in the pedestrian door and go back in the house for 20-30 min. and shut it off when I go back out.

Brian


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI BrianS

"painting with no problems"

I would say you have been very lucky in deed 

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BrianS said:


> I'm certainly no expert on the subject, but I would think sawdust, like most combustibles, would need a fairly large concentration before catching fire. A good shop vac, heck even a cheap one like I have, will take care of most of your sawdust if connected to the machine you are working on. It will NEVER catch all of it of course, but it will get most of it and willl certainly do until you can afford to move onto a dedicated dust collector.
> 
> I've used my kerosene heater, and propane powered Reddi heater while cutting, sanding, and painting with no problems. Maybe I've just been lucky so far.... I use the Reddi heater to heat things up and the kerosene heater to maintain the heat. A note on the Reddi heater, it's one of those torpedo style heater. It works great and heats the garage up quickly but if you use one while you are working it will kill you. I place it in the pedestrian door and go back in the house for 20-30 min. and shut it off when I go back out.
> 
> Brian


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Yeah I can't bring myself to consider a fuel fired heater in that enclosed space. I do worry about the electric one and the dust as well. 
I have a small shop vac (4 gallon) but I am looking at a wall mounted unit. Just saw a couple of them for about 100.00. Too bad they don't design one with a retractable hose and a remote control you could clip on your belt so you can turn it on and off from anywhere in the shop. They are darn noisy things.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Hi Deb,
I can't help with the retractable hose, but I got your remote...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97097

This same unit at Woodcraft costs $70. Just plug it in the outlet then plug in your vac and you're all set. I have one of these on my Dust Collector and it's saved me a million steps to turn it on and off.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Now I know why you're putting on weight George, lack of walking!


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

harrysin said:


> Now I know why you're putting on weight George, lack of walking!


You're probably right, Harry. That, along with the ice cream and all the other junk food.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Deb I have the same problem. Until I got my heater the same model you have. I was considering based board unit before I got this unit. This way you could mount it on a wall or if you could find a free standing base board they used to sell them I don't know if they do now or not. But the big box stores here in PA have been throwing specials on the units you could go anywhere from 2' to 10' sections even hook a thermostat to them.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Glenmore, a baseboard heater is not a bad idea and one I never thought about. Unfortunately I don't have a bare baseboard in the shop - it's wall to wall stuff, either shelving or tools. 
I might settle for buying another B&D heater like the one I have if I could find one again. Two of them might get me through the winter. I would only need both of them running on those really cold days, and maybe once the shop warmed up one would be enough. I have had this little unit running a fair bit this month so I a going to see what the electric bill looks like first. 
George, that remote unit would work perfectly. I did find some retractable vacuum hose reels, but kind of pricey. It's not out of laziness but it would be easier to connect the hose to whatever machine I was using at the time instead of running hoses or pipes all over the garage. If I had the reel ceiling mounted it would keep the hose up off the floor and out of the way. 
Ok so maybe the remote was a bit of laziness...lol. But like I said they are noisy so it's nice to turn it on only as needed.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

You are maybe making it to hard 

Just make up a 220volt drop cord and plug it in to the dryer outlet run it on the outside of the house then into the shop, then pickup a heater that runs on 220 volts,,, you only need it 60 to 90 days or less,,, you don't need to run the dryer all the time, it's very easy to plug it in and pull it out ..

well now if you have a gas dryer that's a horse of a diff.color..
you can always put a 220 outlet at the panel breaker box. 

welder ▼
http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=SOL+2225

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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Isn't that just the way. You know my laundry room is not far off the garage. That 220 cord idea is VERY plausable. *Brilliant idea*!
Bob do you stay up night thinking this stuff up?? Many Thanks I think you solved my problem!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Deb

You're Welcome

Sometimes I forget what I did b/4 I had the heater in the shop,,the cord I made is now use on the welder  so it didn't go to waste 

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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

> That 220 cord idea is VERY plausable.


Just make sure the gauge is adequate. The currents will be appreciable.


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Deb crappy tire sells a ceiling mounted electic heater for $300. It should do the job and it dosen't take up any space. I use wood and electric but all my dust is ducted out to anonther none heated building. You must be a little south of me it was -29 here this morning.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"it was -29 here this morning."

I can't imagine how people by choice, live in such places!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Why do people live in NY,LA,etc. just the way it is... 
Most don't have a choice  once you put down roots it's hard to pull them out.. 


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harrysin said:


> "it was -29 here this morning."
> 
> I can't imagine how people by choice, live in such places!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

When it's that cold I wish Global Warming would hurry up!


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Hey guys it's even colder this morning. I drove my wife to work this morning and my tires were still square when I got home. This is unusually cold, we don't usually see these temperatures until January. Over the last few years the winters have been getting milder though.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi waynoe

They say the tundra is melting ,so it will not be long b/4 you can jump in the boat and take your wife to work  no more square tires.. 

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waynoe said:


> Hey guys it's even colder this morning. I drove my wife to work this morning and my tires were still square when I got home. This is unusually cold, we don't usually see these temperatures until January. Over the last few years the winters have been getting milder though.


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