# Want To Try A Mortise And Tendon Joint



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Well here I go again with one of my questions, this time it's about making a mortise and tendon joint. I have never tried to do this before and so far the only thing I have done is to try to figure it out in my head. I think that I will attempt to cut the tendon on the band saw. I know that this is going to take some effort to get it right but should be able to do it. The mortise is going to be cut with a straight bit on the router table and so far the the biggest problem that I see will be getting of the dimensions right so that the fit before glueing is extremely close but will be done by trial and error until I get it right.

My question is this, does my thinking make sense and/or is there another approach that would be simpler. As you all know by now, I'm really new at wood working and can use all the help that I can get.

Thanks,

Jerry
Colorado City, TX


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Well here I go again with one of my questions, this time it's about making a mortise and tendon joint. I have never tried to do this before and so far the only thing I have done is to try to figure it out in my head. I think that I will attempt to cut the tendon on the band saw. I know that this is going to take some effort to get it right but should be able to do it. The mortise is going to be cut with a straight bit on the router table and so far the the biggest problem that I see will be getting of the dimensions right so that the fit before glueing is extremely close but will be done by trial and error until I get it right.
> 
> My question is this, does my thinking make sense and/or is there another approach that would be simpler. As you all know by now, I'm really new at wood working and can use all the help that I can get.
> 
> ...


Just a practice joint right? How big of material you going to practice with? (<-- Would determine what to respond with)

...Because, for example, you could do both sides of the joint on a router table.


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## richtink (Dec 5, 2012)

Mortise first, then tenon on table saw. Use scrap for setup of tenon thickness. Handsaw to fit length of tenon.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

richtink said:


> Mortise first, then tenon on table saw. Use scrap for setup of tenon thickness. Handsaw to fit length of tenon.


With any technique or tooling, I do the same way. Make the mortise, create the tenon to fit. First by making it a little big. Then taking it down to fit. The tenon is the fitted part of the joint. That's where I think practice is concentrated.

As for tooling, I can think of 10 ways off the top of my head. If it's practice on his bandsaw he wants... after marking and determining the measurements of the tenon- the tenon diameter and width. That wills determine the face and edge measurements from the leg. Set a stop block at the tenon length. Set the fence to that measurement (slightly less so that it can be fit). Cut the tenon edges and faces. Set the fence at the tenon length, set the stop block at the shoulder depth. Use a miter gauge and cut the shoulders... Fit to the mortise.

Fitting? Shoulder plane, chisel, sanding block, etc.

richtink-
Why do you use a hand saw to trim a tenon to length after using power tools for your other tooling? Just curious. It I were to get out a good handsaw to work on it, I would wonder why I just didn't go ahead and do it all with that. Just saying if those where the skills I wanted to practice, then I would practice.

Yes. Hand Saw, Table saw with a tenoning jig, Table saw with a dado, Table Saw in a Sled, Band saw, Planes, Router Table, Plunge router with jigs... etc, etc. So many choices.


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## JCJCJC (May 15, 2012)

Experiment on cheap timber. make your mortice as you say, on the router table. Consider using Norm Abram's technique of reversing the piece and passing it through the cutter again, so that the final mortice is dead-centre in the workpiece. Don't ask the cutter to take off too much wood in one go - before routing, drill some holes and do some hand-chiselling in the mortice to remove as much wood as you can. Try to visualise the router cutter as it works - leave somewhere for the chips to go.
Once you have the mortice cut you can cut the tenon on your bandsaw - again, experiment on scrap so that the thickness of the tenon matches your mortice. One set-up of the bandsaw should do it, once you've cut down the side of the tenon, flip the workpiece over and cut the other side. maybe you could use a stop-block to ensure the depth of both cuts is both equal and correct. The final cut on the shoulders of the tenon could be done with your bandsaw if you have a high-quality accurate guide, but personally I'd use a tenon saw, called a back-saw in the USA. I'd score the lines witha craft knife to get a very clean edge to the piece.

Hope that helps?


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Just a practice joint right? How big of material you going to practice with? (<-- Would determine what to respond with)
> 
> ...Because, for example, you could do both sides of the joint on a router table.


Mike,
Actually I'm planning on using the joint on a small table. The legs on the table are or will be about 2" square with the mortises being cut on two sides at the top end of each of each of the four legs. The tendons will be on the ends of workpieces that are 3/4" x 2" x (the length is not important here). 

I looked at a mortise and tendon jig but it requires a plunge router. My PC has a plunge base, I have never tried to use it. The motor of the router is mounted in a life in the router table and taking it out to use as a plunge router is not a project that I want to do if I can avoid it.

Jerry


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry, making the tenon on a router table is fine but making a mortice on a RT is not good because you would have to push the board down on a spinning bit. The only safe way I know to make a mortice with the router is to clamp the board in a bench vise and make a jig that sits over the end of the board that will place the router in the correct position and plunge a bit in. I don't do it this way so I can't show you one. I use this Image Detail for - Delta tenon jig review and this Image Detail for - Tip #10 Mortise and Tenon Mortise -and-tenon joints are some of the ... which attaches to the quill on my drill press. 

As already said, make the mortice first. It is much easier to change the tenon to fit. By using a tenon jig like the Delta I have, you can edge the jig closer to the blade to trim close to fit and the fine tune as Mike suggested. You don't have to have a tenon jig like mine. You can make one out of plywood and use the fence on the TS to guide it.


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## richtink (Dec 5, 2012)

richtink-
Why do you use a hand saw to trim a tenon to length after using power tools for your other tooling? Just curious. It I were to get out a good handsaw to work on it, I would wonder why I just didn't go ahead and do it all with that. Just saying if those where the skills I wanted to practice, then I would practice.

Yes. Hand Saw, Table saw with a tenoning jig, Table saw with a dado, Table Saw in a Sled, Band saw, Planes, Router Table, Plunge router with jigs... etc, etc. So many choices.[/QUOTE]

I sold my bandsaw, so I try not to think in those terms. :lol:I didn't mean a carpenters saw, just a small back saw. Easier than setting the table saw again to make cuts on a vertical board. Also, I didn't mean a dado blade or tenoning jig on the table saw, just set fence for depth of shoulder and eat away the material.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Jerry, if you want to see a video showing how to do a mortise and tenon (not tendon) joint check out THIS post, download the PDF and click on podcast #2. I posted a list of Woodsmith podcasts showing all facets of woodworking that will answer a ton of your questions. To me a picture is worth a thousand words.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

All the advice given is good. As already stated it is best to use the router as a plunger rather than the router table. I can understand not wanting to remove the router since 99% of your work can be done on the table. Going this route you will need to use a downward spiral bit, in addition to getting the dust out it will also tend to pull the wood down. If you don't have one check out MLCS.


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## bcfunburst (Jan 14, 2012)

*Mortise and Tenon w Router*

I have found a very simple solution to this mortise and tenon thing. I have started to buy the floating tenons in pkgs of 50 and 100 from Lee Valley Tools. That way I only need to make the same cuts with the plunge router for ALL similar Mortises. If you choose a different size of your own, you are only limited by your router bit size and you can make your tenon inserts on the table saw and round over the edges w your router, then cut them to length.


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## Tool Home LLC (Sep 18, 2012)

bcfunburst said:


> I have found a very simple solution to this mortise and tenon thing.



The easiest solution I've found to mortise & tenon joints are the Festool Domino machines and Domino tenons or tenon stock.


Tom


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Tool Home LLC said:


> The easiest solution I've found to mortise & tenon joints are the Festool Domino machines and Domino tenons or tenon stock.
> 
> 
> Tom


That type of joint, a floating mortise and tenon joint, is actually easy to do with a router or router table.

I like doing that joint. To me, it reminds me of a stronger biscuit joint.

I cut the mortises with a mortising jig and my plunge router. What I like about it is you don't have to square it off with a chisel. Makes things faster. That and y
I make my floating tenon stock on my router table in-mass with a roundover bit. I make these expendables of different thicknesses from pieces about 1-2 foot (scraps). You can be a little off one side and as long as the jig hasn't moved and you use the same face of the joint, your faces are going to match up. Also just like using a biscuit joiner.
long, then cut into tenon lengths. (Just like biscuits.) Then I have them around when I need them.

Stronger joint than a biscuit joint... but I don't feel it's as strong as a true mortise and tenon joint.


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## Bradleytavares (Feb 25, 2012)

A chisle is a very important part of squaring up the mortice corners. You can also round the tenon corners to fit the router bit radius but it's easier for me to square up the mortice for a real quality fit. Plane the tenon to proper size after the band saw cut and you'll be happy with the final fit. I've learned this in school from the fine woodworking teacher.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Stronger joint than a biscuit joint... but I don't feel it's as strong as a true mortise and tenon joint.


If not as strong then it must be close. When you glue the loose tenon into the part you'd normally have cut a tenon on, it's long grain to long grain, which should be as strong as the wood itself if well glued. From there it's just like a normal mortice and tenon.


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## Tool Home LLC (Sep 18, 2012)

> it reminds me of a stronger biscuit joint.



I think of floating tenon joints as closer to double-dowel joints. They have significantly more mechanical strength than biscuits and register both laterally and logitudinally. They also have anti-rotational qualities that single-dowel joints don't.

The Domino machine just makes it really quick and easy.

Making one's own tenons is certainly appealing in some cases, especially if a certain species other than beech or sipo is desired. Special sizes are also a factor.


Tom


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

AndyL said:


> If not as strong then it must be close. When you glue the loose tenon into the part you'd normally have cut a tenon on, it's long grain to long grain, which should be as strong as the wood itself if well glued. From there it's just like a normal mortice and tenon.


matthias wandel has a video where he tests different gluing techniques, and the strongest joint was always where there was a small gap and the glue filled in the gap. 

so a mortise and tenon joint should actually be the strongest joint you can have if it is just a tad loose and enough glue is used to fill in the gaps.

close after that, a loose tenon joint would also be very strong.


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