# Input on a first hobby CNC Router Kit



## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Hi Everyone!

It seems like most people on these forums have professional CNC machines, but was hoping that there are some with experience or knowledge of 2 hobby CNC kits (cnc4newbies or openbuild) that I'm trying to decide between for my first machine.

I'm recently retired and plan to put more time into woodworking, which I've been doing as a hobby for several decades. I've been looking into getting a CNC setup for a couple of years, and now that I have more time to devote to it I plan to make a purchase very soon. My initial plan for a CNC is for home projects and gifts, initially starting out with some signs, inlays and other similar types of projects. I'll be starting out with wood, but may venture into using other materials, but for the most part I'll be working with wood.

This will start off as a hobby and to gain experience using a CNC, and depending on how that goes, I may start looking to earn some supplemental income as a (very) small business, solely to help fund my woodworking hobby  If I do end up going that route, then I will likely upgrade to a more serious machine, but for now I'm really just looking for an entry level machine.

Price range has increased a little over time, but I've settled in the $2K (US) range. I'm looking for a packaged kit, as opposed to a DIY setup, and have researched a lot of the entry level and hobby kits and have narrowed it down to the following 2 machines


CNC4newbie New-Carve CNC (1000 dimension)
Openbuilds Lead CNC 1010 (40"x40")

Does anyone know any significant pros or cons of these two that would help decide which to go with? And are there any major concerns with either of these to be used as a starter hobby machine?

Thanks in advance for any input on this!

-Phil


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Phil!

There are many CNC guys here and you'll get some good input, for sure. One thing about the hobby class of machines is that they may do well on wood even if you have to take shallow cuts and slow feed rates, but when you venture out to aluminum, brass, etc. they may not fare so well.

My suggestion is to get the most rigid machine you can for your budget dollars. Does your budget include software or is the $2k for machine and peripherals only? 

David


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

They are both very similar machines. At 1 m length, those extruded beams will flex a fair amount. You will have to use a shallow DOC (around 1.5mm in wood) and moderate feedrates (1000 mm/min range) to get decent cuts. If that's acceptable, then either one is probably OK. I own an extruded aluminum machine from Openbuilds and they are a good organization when it comes to getting you going. If I were in the market for an extruded aluminum machine, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

philv7 said:


> It seems like most people on these forums have professional CNC machines


But not all. Don't have one, don't plan on getting one. Even the steam powered one.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

We know Theo - we know!!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Keep your eyes open for a used one of better quality. They pop up pretty regularly. That's a tight budget to get even an acceptable machine - plus software.


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thank you David!
I was initially planning for the entire 2K budget to be for the machine, peripherals and software. Depending on how the software is that I get initially, I may choose to spend more on that if needed. And I'm sure there will be additional items that I'll end up needing over time, so I expect some additional outlays of cash.

-Phil



difalkner said:


> Welcome to the forum, Phil!
> 
> There are many CNC guys here and you'll get some good input, for sure. One thing about the hobby class of machines is that they may do well on wood even if you have to take shallow cuts and slow feed rates, but when you venture out to aluminum, brass, etc. they may not fare so well.
> 
> ...


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks for the feedback Phil!



PhilBa said:


> They are both very similar machines. At 1 m length, those extruded beams will flex a fair amount. You will have to use a shallow DOC (around 1.5mm in wood) and moderate feedrates (1000 mm/min range) to get decent cuts. If that's acceptable, then either one is probably OK. I own an extruded aluminum machine from Openbuilds and they are a good organization when it comes to getting you going. If I were in the market for an extruded aluminum machine, I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them.


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks John. I did start to wonder about that yesterday, so perhaps I'll start looking around. Other than these forums, do you (or anyone else) have a suggestion on good places to look for used machines?



honesttjohn said:


> Keep your eyes open for a used one of better quality. They pop up pretty regularly. That's a tight budget to get even an acceptable machine - plus software.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Try CNCzone.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Try CNCzone. What area are you in?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

His profile shows NJ, John.

David


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

I'll check that out. Thanks John. I live in central Jersey.



honesttjohn said:


> Try CNCzone. What area are you in?


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> It seems like most people on these forums have professional CNC machines


Even a $10,000 CNC Router is still basically a "hobby machine". And pretty much anything under $4000 is going to be very lightweight.

Of the two machines you mentioned, the CNC4Newbie definitely has better components. The problem though, as that as you increase the size, the rigidity decreases rapidly. So at this size, the components used don't really matter all that much, because the entire frame will be flexing. Anything over 18"x18" in this price class is going to be pretty flimsy

What it really comes down to with these machines, is what your expectations are. Pretty much any machine can do the same quality of work. If you're serious about using a CNC router, you'll likely outgrow this machine quickly. For some, it may be all they ever need.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

philv7,
My first machine was a C N C built here in the States by a company "Next ave Automation". Check them out on the web. The support is great and they have a good product. They make several different models to choose from. I believe the software still comes with their machines. They start out about $2000 I think now. Remember, once you get the machine you will have bits to contend with and a router to add to the machine. All of these are accessories to your new machine. 
There are many more qualified people here than me, but this is what worked for me to start with. I do not mean to contradict any of the previous comments or any that may come after mine.

Good Luck, 
Tagwatts1


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks for the info Frank. I'll take a look at the company to see what they have to offer.

-Phil



Tagwatts1 said:


> philv7,
> My first machine was a C N C built here in the States by a company "Next ave Automation". Check them out on the web. The support is great and they have a good product. They make several different models to choose from. I believe the software still comes with their machines. They start out about $2000 I think now. Remember, once you get the machine you will have bits to contend with and a router to add to the machine. All of these are accessories to your new machine.
> There are many more qualified people here than me, but this is what worked for me to start with. I do not mean to contradict any of the previous comments or any that may come after mine.
> 
> ...


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks for the additional input Gerry. Of course, now I'm starting to think about how I can increase my budget to get my second machine first :smile:
Lots more thinking to do now.

-Phil




ger21 said:


> Even a $10,000 CNC Router is still basically a "hobby machine". And pretty much anything under $4000 is going to be very lightweight.
> 
> Of the two machines you mentioned, the CNC4Newbie definitely has better components. The problem though, as that as you increase the size, the rigidity decreases rapidly. So at this size, the components used don't really matter all that much, because the entire frame will be flexing. Anything over 18"x18" in this price class is going to be pretty flimsy
> 
> What it really comes down to with these machines, is what your expectations are. Pretty much any machine can do the same quality of work. If you're serious about using a CNC router, you'll likely outgrow this machine quickly. For some, it may be all they ever need.


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## maddog (Feb 28, 2010)

Check out the new Iconic series from Axiom. The 2 x 2 is $4k but comes with 15mm linear rails, Spindle, and 16mm ball screws. Very good machine for the money, and then I suggest VCarve Desktop to start with as Vectric is a great company that has plenty of training videos and projects to help you get started with a cost of $350 and an upgrade path to their higher end software when you're ready. Does wood, aluminum, brass, and copper. Consister buying your second machine first.


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## canewb (Apr 9, 2020)

All I can say is:
I bought my turnkey CNC6040 router in 2013 from CNC-Carving, now called OMIOCNC dot com.
I have had ZERO problems with it.

Check out their site for the X8-2200L USB. About $2700
or the X8M. $1999.

UPDATE: due to the corona virus problem, they are currently not shipping anything.

FYI:
I use ACAD LITE, VCARVE DESKTOP 10, and MAC-3 on an old XP computer.
Of course XP is obsolete but it still work great


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

canewb said:


> All I can say is:
> I bought my turnkey CNC6040 router in 2013 from CNC-Carving, now called OMIOCNC dot com.
> I have had ZERO problems with it.
> 
> ...


Head on over to the introduction area and tell us a little about yourself - first name, location, etc.

David


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## philv7 (Apr 6, 2020)

Thanks JR. Did you happen to do any research before buying to determine how the Axiom compared to the cnc4newbie, openbuilds, x-carve or the shapeoko?



maddog said:


> Check out the new Iconic series from Axiom. The 2 x 2 is $4k but comes with 15mm linear rails, Spindle, and 16mm ball screws. Very good machine for the money, and then I suggest VCarve Desktop to start with as Vectric is a great company that has plenty of training videos and projects to help you get started with a cost of $350 and an upgrade path to their higher end software when you're ready. Does wood, aluminum, brass, and copper. Consister buying your second machine first.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I bought a used Shapeoko XXL just over a year ago. I love it. I upgraded it with the HDZ (Heavy Duty Z) and a touch probe and bit setter. You can make some amazing things check out the Shapeoko community forum gallery https://community.carbide3d.com/ Many of the users on this forum are using Pro grade machines and think that the hobby machines a not good. The pro level of machines are $50.000.00 and above with some lower but are not necessary if you are not making a living at CNC.

I have posted this on other threads but will repeat.

The first third of you budget is the machine.
The second third of your budget will be bits, materials and finishing for your projects.
The third part of your budget is software. Some use Fusion 360, Vetric and there are opensource and free programs.

There is a tremendous learning curve that any normal human can get over. 

There is also a tremendous time commitment to learn and product useful projects. There are a ton of videos on youtube.com about CNCing.

My Shapeoko XXL is great and I have made a ton of projects. The Carbide3d software is free and they also have a pro version that is currently free for a year if you join the forum. As said above there is a tremendous learning curve and suggest you dont start out with the paid software. After you master the free software, which you may never outgrow, you can pay for Vetric or Fusion 360. Just as a baby must learn to roll over, crawl, walk and eventually run the CNC learning process is the same. Start slow and build. If you have no CNC experience dont think you will be running at full speed in the first week.

If you cannot make a commitment to the time and learning then dont jump in. There are many CNC machines that are gathering dust because people start out enthusiastic and then run out of steam and machine collects dust. I am not trying to discourage you but want to be realistic.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> Many of the users on this forum are using Pro grade machines and think that the hobby machines a not good. The pro level of machines are $50.000.00 and above with some lower but are not necessary if you are not making a living at CNC.


Different people have different expectations.
Some people are fine with Harbor Freight tools, while other won't settle for anything less than Powermatic, Milwaukee, or Bosch.
Go look at the Sawmill creek forum, and see how many people have $25,000 worth of machines in their hobby shops.

A $20,000 car will get you where you want to go, in the same time as a $75,000 car. But they still sell a lot of $75,000 cars.

Over the years, I've seen countless people that were not happy with $2000-$4000 machines.

I'm not saying you have to buy a $10,000 machine. And no hobbyist is using a $50,000 machine

And yes, plenty of people are very happy with their $1500 machines. But there is a huge difference.

And in my world, "Pro" machines start at $150,000. Our shop is getting a new one as soon as things return to "normal".


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Morning Ger,

Going stir crazy yet? Was in your neck of the woods Friday taking dinner to a friend (86 and alone).


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

Our cabinet shop does 90% of our work at hospitals, so the projects we've been working on have been deemed essential, keeping me working.

I just moved 28 miles east down 23 mile, so I can look out the window and see this.

I have a mobile base coming this week for my table saw, which I need to move this week. I still have half of a garage at the old house I'll be moving this week.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Cool!!!! Beach party at Gerry's coming in the future.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> Cool!!!! Beach party at Gerry's coming in the future.


why wait...we can have a moving party, supervisory only of course.. (wouldn't want to get in the way or underfoot)....


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Beautiful view, Gerry! It's over 1,100 miles from here to your place so I'll help Stick in the supervisory mode, assuming we can do a live broadcast. :wink:

David


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I wanted to show what my Shapeoko did today.
I finished the basic cutting of the Marvel Aztec Calendar. Here are the specs of the carve:

Project: 20x20 inch MDF .75" thick
Marvel Image: 19"x19"
CC Tool path estimate: 26 Hours 23 Minutes
CM Tool path estimate: 9 Hours 23 Minutes
Actual Time: 11 hours 45 Minutes
Deepest Cut: .25"
Used dust extraction and not a spec of dust left behind.
CC Version 4.26
CM Version 5.13
Cut with #301 (Really Frued 90 degree 1/2 Vee Bit)
Gcode lines: 278,715

This was a marathon day and the Shapeoko and HDZ worked perfectly.

A bigger machine could have cut this faster. But for a Hobby machine I think it came out good.

Tomorrow I will cut out the project and prime and paint. I ordered some Rub and Buff glazing was from Amazon and will finish and seal the project after the painting and glazing.

Here is the detail of Deadpool.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I had two pictures but only one showed up. Here is the second picture of the project


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## maddog (Feb 28, 2010)

philv7 said:


> Thanks JR. Did you happen to do any research before buying to determine how the Axiom compared to the cnc4newbie, openbuilds, x-carve or the shapeoko?


Philv7,

I sell the Shark, the Axioms, the Carvewright, and the Xcarve. The Axioms stand head and shoulder above the other machines. I've been using all of these for the last 4 years on some, and 8 years on the Sharks. Just received the newer models of the Axioms and their quality is great. Set them up, plug them in, and run. The machines are complete, and you only need to buy your design software. If your machine is 2 ft or under I suggest VCarve Desktop, over 2 ft then VCarve Pro.


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## Tkwood (Oct 18, 2020)

philv7 said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> It seems like most people on these forums have professional CNC machines, but was hoping that there are some with experience or knowledge of 2 hobby CNC kits (cnc4newbies or openbuild) that I'm trying to decide between for my first machine.
> 
> ...


I too am similar in status, retired, old wood worker, 70 yr old. I just purchased a shapeoko XL.
It requires assembly, but the task is simple, taking maybe two-three hours. I chose this by Carbide 3D, as it’s a proven platform, well made and designed and has a nice price point. Upon assembly, which comes with an excellent manual with instructions very clearly. All parts are American made, and they have superior customer care and technical help, 1 year guarantee. The My best as always thing in my opinion is the tutorials and member forums. I’m very particular, and all my research offered Carbide 3D as the choice and I don’t reget it . Understand there is a learning curve, you have to have resources to be happy as well as ideas. Tom


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Tom! Add your first name to your profile to clear the N/a in the side panel and so we'll remember what to call you.

We do like photos so show us your shop, tools, projects, etc. whenever you're ready. What sort of woodworking are you planning or doing? 

Head over to the Introduction subforum and tell us a little about yourself.

David


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## Graham Prinn (Oct 29, 2019)

Not sure if you found a machine yet, but did you ever think of build one your self. There's a ton of plans out there. Some of the machine at your price range will be a kit, so really not a lot of difference than building your own, and the price would be a lot cheaper plus you learn about the machine and will be able to do up keep far more easily. You can easily build a machine for 2K. You can even build it out of wood and all you need is wood working tools.


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