# Routing with Template Tom



## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Routing with Template Tom
Firstly; I do not want to open up an old wound; I would just like to present my comments as I was unable to submit a posting before the thread was closed.

I was sorry to see the thread closed before the project details were fully presented. I had been in contact with Bob whom I believe is a very busy person in his private life, who was unable to proceed due to work commitment, no different to any of us, we are not always ready to make the projects we have been contemplating, and we put it off to another day.

With some of the posts submitted I could see there was no way I could change the mind of Bj to at least try to use the template guides in the plunge mode, and he may have expressed his strong feeling for the project to be completed in the table mode, strong enough to convince some of the members that was the only way it should be attempted, though he had not really posted the solution to the problem.

I had suggested another method for Bob to consider before he proceeded to cut the shape with the band saw then trim in the router table. What we have to remember this project will fit into the palm of your hand, yes it is very small therefore we must look for a safe procedure to follow. There is no doubt in my mind, yes; it could be done with the router in the router table, as I have produced many similar projects in the past, after over 40 years experience using the router, but I was conscious of a number of new members present who may be new to routing on the forum who may have found the table method too dangerous a method to use.

Due to the negative response from people who are unaware of the benefits gained with the use of the template guides, I thought it was time to move on. I have reconsidered my decision because there was a question of “I need help” in a method of producing the simple project with safety, someone who wished to retain his fingers. As there were a number of novices reading the thread they may have been tempted to use the router table method, where the results could be disturbing to say the least. 

It was because of the negative response from some members I decided to forward my comments to Bob by email. I could also have submitted a ‘Photo shoot’ to the forum as Harry suggested, but that would not have been sufficient in my opinion. Yes I did forward CAD drawings with fine details, as producing rough sketches would not have helped in any way. I have assisted Harry in a number of projects, and I am sure he would have to admit he would be unable to produce the projects without some technical details. I did expand the basic rules of using the guides and introduced him to some of the new routing techniques I have developed. Just as a matter of interest there are many new techniques Harry has never seen yet.

To assist in the production of the object, I also enclosed a full size drawing of the template design where it could be taped to the material to make the necessary cut-out, without having to do any calculations. I also went a step further to produce a template shape full size to rout out the trenches for the shelves. Bj had suggested sliding dovetails in one of his postings but there was no details presented as to how he was going to do it, and I am not convinced that the dovetail joint was possible considering the size of materials to be used.

There may have been others interested in how the project could be achieved with greater safety awareness, or was Bob the only one? Should anyone be interested in receiving the details I have sent to Bob, send me an email and I will forward the material to you personally. Should you wish to pass on your comments to the forum after you have tried please do not hesitate.
At this stage I have no intention of posting any further details to the forum. If there is no interest in learning how to use the router with greater safety and produce more interesting projects I will simply move on. 

Tom

P,S.Enclosed letter from WorkSafe Western Australia from Chief Inspector R Elkington.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Tom,

If there is anyting I could do to change your mind I would do it. As you have pointed out many times, use of a router is inherently dangerous and you have developed a method that greatly diminishes the danger. I quote me quoting you from another thread then adding my comments, the one involving Darryl's accident:

"I have not seen a posting of the method Template Tom has devised. I have been "indisposed" recently so may have missed it, but I cannot find it.

"Recently I have devised a method of doing exactly what you were doing with the router where the fingers do not get near the cutter.( another one of my jigs to show that not all procedures should be done in the router table).

Template Tom: please post your method. I totally agree with Nick and Rusty that your method would be very greatly appreciated, There might be a few nattering nabobs of negativism, but they are flotsam and jetsam of history, the litter by the road of progress, tha ants at a picnic, the mosquitos on an outing.

I do explicitly exclude from my description those who honestly discuss alternatives and other ideas and have other ideas. We need diverse ideas in order to progress and learn. Tom, you have a very well developed alternative theory of routering, and all members of the forum (and the lurkers) would greatly benefit from learning more of it."

In another thread on direction of cutting, there was a lively and sometimes tempestuous discussion, but in the end one important conclusion was that "anything we can do or say that may keep someone from getting hurt is well worth it, i think" quoting levon. I agree with levon except for the "I think"

We have a subforum devoted to workshop safety, the creation of which I strongly supported because I have made enough mistakes that could have or did result in injury. One that did result in injury would have been avoided had I been using your sled and template method (search for references to my left forefinger to see an example).

While I learned use of the router from Bob and Rick, and they prefer the use of the table mounted router, there are many novices who can learn your safer method and learn to think first in those terms, without having to unlearn thinking in other methods. 

To properly credit Bob and Rick,if that is possible, I started watching their show hoping that someday I would be a good enough woodworker to justify having a router. Instead I found that using a router would make me a much better woodworker. 

Again, please reconsider. There are too many people on our forum who would benefit from your work. 

Thanks


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'll say it just one more time, when you start to post complete projects with photo shoot, then, in my opinion, members will sit up and follow your every word, simply posting snippets and asking members to find solutions is NOT the way to gather a big following. I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames by the hoards who disagree with me.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't really know what this is all about, but as a novice I am greatly interested in ALL methods of using the router. In my short experience on this forum I have already learned that there is more then one way to accomplish anything and there are always different levels of comfort in those methods and the option to choose one that works for me is what keeps me interested in learning more. The majority of users of a certain method is not always the one I choose. Those skilled with routers might find my methods cumbersome, but if they make me "feel" safer until I have enough skill and desire to use the popular methods I am greatful for the alternate suggestions. 

The photo diaries or steps of completing tasks are immensly helpful to anyone who is not familiar with all the woodworking terms and nuances and I truley appreciate all those who take the time and effort to post them as I am sure many novices here do.

Tom if you believe in your methods and you have taught many of your ideas and principals to those willing to learn, as I am sure you have, then you should ignore the naysayers and continue in your efforts to educate. I am very interested in what you have to offer. Perhaps you cannot change the minds of those who are already set in their preferences, but you still have an opportunity to help all those interested in learning different methods make their own choices. Please don't waste that.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

It's good for newbies when methods are described and discussed and alternatives offered and I am sure quite often even "old dogs" can be taught new tricks as ideas evolve. I am also aware that methods often get challenged and egos get bruised when a person believes there is only ONE right because they have followed that for decades. It's hard to ignore having your work and methods dissected especially when it comes with distaste. And I realize that when threads get "heated" administrators have no choice but to close the thread. 
I also see lots of people who are interested in posting their methods regardless of the critiques and criticism in an effort to try to pass on information. Even if that thread degrades, at least we have had the chance to assess the information and make our own decisions. It is easy to spot unwillingness to accept a difference of opinion from an honest critique. 
I am sure if were someone dissing me to death I would feel the same as Tom and Ron. It's just a shame to lose such a wealth of knowledge.


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

harrysin said:


> I'll say it just one more time, when you start to post complete projects with photo shoot, then, in my opinion, members will sit up and follow your every word, simply posting snippets and asking members to find solutions is NOT the way to gather a big following. I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames by the hoards who disagree with me.


I totally agree. I am a user of Tom's methods, I find it very safe and enjoyable. But I wasn't able to figure it out until Harry got here with all his pictures.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Although I'm an old (wrinkled) hand at routing, I've never delved into the finer points of using templates and guides. This old dog is definitely interested in learning some new tricks. Arf, arf.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

RustyW said:


> I totally agree. I am a user of Tom's methods, I find it very safe and enjoyable. But I wasn't able to figure it out until Harry got here with all his pictures.


That having been said, Tom, in no way is this an affront to you. We all learn differently, Rusty was able to pick up on Harry's pictures, whereas your text with Harry's pictures and I think I'm getting half of it. More painful study in order. :'(

Derek, on the other hand only needs to say a few words and I've got it. It must be that Limey accent ;-)



Allthunbs


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I don't know what the issue is/was that required this thread, what I do know about me is that I respond 60% visual and 40% to written. 
The reason, not all authors write explicitly, unintentional I'm sure, but ambiguous terminology due to regional and or national idioms can alter one's perspective. Having pics with the word allows one to interpret the meaning to coincide with visual.

Put a disclaimer on the thread and or posts.
I'm always looking for a new way to do something and would like to decide for myself whether it's safe and or worthy for me use.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Routing over the air*

*Producing Elliptical Trinket boxes:*

The material I have written about,- "how to produce elliptical trinket boxes", I have converted to picture format. _These pics are not what I have done but what you have to do if you wish to make the item._ This presentation has been produced for others to try and master the use of the template guides. 

Over 100 pics are included in the presentation and therefore will have to be sent over a period of time subject to there being any interest in the method I have developed.

There will be little to no processes completed in the router table therefore if you wish to take advantage of the presentation you will be required to have a number of template guides and be prepared to make the templates required.

There will also be a period of time given for members to post their results before proceeding to the next stage. Seeing the postings will convince me to go on to the next stage. Without the postings there is no need for any further postings from me and therefore I will simply give up the idea of introducing new routing techniques and concentrate on promoting the material here in the West into our local schools where they have not been pressured into inserting their router in the table mode.

I would be interested in your comments and of course questions and maybe some of your ideas on the problems you have with a project.

This project is not new, as I directed someone in Russia some years ago to complete the same project over the internet.

Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just to add a link or two for the Ellipse jig 

Amazon.com: Trend ME/JIG Mini Ellipse and Circle Cutting Jig: Home Improvement
https://www.tools4trade.com/shop_productdetail.aspx?pid=112034
Mini Ellipse Jig Ellipse Circles
Trend Mini Ellipse Jig Set (Ellipse Jigs / Mini Ellipse Jig) : Tooled-Up.com
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17282&filter=Ellipse Jig
=======


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

All this is information working for me ..don't stop now - 
Thank you


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Skip the jig, concentrate on the procedure that Tom is describing, _then_ try the jig and compare.

The method that Tom is proposing ensures a safe and efficient way to produce good-looking products. 

The learning curve in this course will be gradual and self-paced and designed to be safe and give you confidence so you can go on and, perhaps, use the ellipse jig, but follow the plan and you'll learn. Deviate, and you'll lose the benefits that Tom is offering.

Allthunbs


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## opelblues (Aug 22, 2008)

well dont say that i dont read, iv just spent the last 3 hours reading template toms posts, and i have had a brain wave. as myself i can see where tom is coming from in regards to saftey, the setup of a job, the final product. 

the one thing that i would have liked to see would be the setup of the templates from start to finish, and the time line of the project. ie the small handles that were talked about there were no break down in the setup - i mite be looking in the wrong place

it was like working for a boss i had years ago, he wanted it done his way, but did not give any directions on how to do it his way. then got angry because we couldn't do the job his way, funny thing was 5 years later this boss started working for me, and he was pleased to see some of his instruction were taken on board, so on say that if one person takes up your ideas, that is one more than there was before. so its better than no one wanting to listen


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

I too have just finished reading hours and hours of posts dating back to 2004 regarding Tom's methods. Much confusion in my head until pictures started showing up that helped me understand what it was all about. I am at this time in the middle of constructing my jig/template holder and router skis so I can begin the journey on this type of routing. I am looking forward to learning this new method to add to the way I work.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Well Tom

You got me one more time,,I'm going to make the templates today and the oval box with the lid...
But you know me ,,,,I'm not going to put out the money for the elliptical jig, I'm going to make the templates on the scroll saw...anyway that's the plan...

I should see the box done sometime today...but we will see.. 


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template tom said:


> *Producing Elliptical Trinket boxes:*
> 
> The material I have written about,- "how to produce elliptical trinket boxes", I have converted to picture format. _These pics are not what I have done but what you have to do if you wish to make the item._ This presentation has been produced for others to try and master the use of the template guides.
> 
> ...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

opelblues said:


> the one thing that i would have liked to see would be the setup of the templates from start to finish, and the time line of the project. ie the small handles that were talked about there were no break down in the setup - i mite be looking in the wrong place


Hi Tom: I second the motion from opelblues. Where is there postings on preparing templates? I'm talking about the cut your fingers, do it with an Olfa knife stuff. I can cut out a template in a flash. Except it always looks like "S--t" with bumps and flat spots and divits and it produces products that look worse.

Ok, lets get specific. I'm going to get a piece of 1/4" MDF (masonite - whatever). I've gone and found my French curve and I'm going to scribe an oval. With an awl and my french curve, I've scribed my oval. It is as accurate as I can make it. Now, what is the next step?

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi allthunbs

This is more or less a butt in post ..

But you need a frame ,,to hold the templates ,see in the post below you will see how to make one..when you make the templates they must fit into the frame...anyway that's how I do it...I'm sure Tom will not agree on that one but it works for me...
You need to do a little bit of math when you make the templates,I going to use the 1 1/2" guide that Tom's likes. I have the 40mm guide thanks to Harry but I want to use the 1 1/2" one this time..because we can all get one in the states..

It takes two templates for me, but I was just thinking about it I may just get by with one template and just use a diff. guide in order to get the job.
1 1/2" and a 1/2" and a 1" for the rabbit lip..

http://www.routerforums.com/portable-routing/13243-levon.html
Router Forums

Note ,,you can also use the glue up way that Harry like to to use to make the frame.. 
Tom's frame holder below


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allthunbs said:


> Hi Tom: I second the motion from opelblues. Where is there postings on preparing templates? I'm talking about the cut your fingers, do it with an Olfa knife stuff. I can cut out a template in a flash. Except it always looks like "S--t" with bumps and flat spots and divits and it produces products that look worse.
> 
> Ok, lets get specific. I'm going to get a piece of 1/4" MDF (masonite - whatever). I've gone and found my French curve and I'm going to scribe an oval. With an awl and my french curve, I've scribed my oval. It is as accurate as I can make it. Now, what is the next step?
> 
> Allthunbs


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> But you need a frame ,,to hold the templates


I'm way before the frame part. I'm just trying to dig a hole in a piece of MDF that will produce a reasonable template. I can sort of handle a square but the oval is a killer. That's got to be done by hand with a sharp knife and lots of band-aids -- I think!

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Allthunbs

This is what I'm going to do,, the oval is duck soup,,I'm going to just make a 1/2 pattern,then flip it over to get the other end of the oval then just scroll saw it out. if you don't have a scroll saw a hand scroll saw will do the job or a jig saw..  little bit of sanding and it will be set to use..then if you want make the female/male template using the same pattern..(the one you just cut out) and using a off set ring...just a 1/4" MDF stock ring to hold a pencil..then just cut it out,, then you have a pair of templates .

Or you can do this..
Router Workshop: reverse inlay

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allthunbs said:


> I'm way before the frame part. I'm just trying to dig a hole in a piece of MDF that will produce a reasonable template. I can sort of handle a square but the oval is a killer. That's got to be done by hand with a sharp knife and lots of band-aids -- I think!
> 
> Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Here's some snapshots of the Oval Template and the holding frame...I had to stop for today, I blew the switch out on my RAS so I need to go get one and do a small repair job today 

=======


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Routing of the air*

Well that I have presented so far has some effect on some members well on to the next stage. Remember I want to see some postings of your effortsa as we go along.

Just as a matter of interest I have never purchased a jig to make the Elliptical shape. If you are to cut it out by hand it is important that it is cut with great care.
Tom


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

you still have my undivded attention and appreciation for your guidance .... More please


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

I will have to look down the road before I can do this particular project. I will be watching this thread very close for the outcome though so I can continue to learn with the rest of the group. Please continue and do not back away from finishing what you have started here.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Here's just 2 more snapshots, I think I will have it done on Wed. 


=========


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Here's just 2 more snapshots, I think I will have it done on Wed.
> 
> 
> =========


Bj

How did you do the second groove which will be the outside of the box? By the way it is great to seeyou using the router in the plunge mode with the aid of template guides. :sold:Keep this up and I might convert you yet to the method I have developed.:sold:

Tom


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Tom Bob has used the template guides a lot, in fact he has more than any person I know. Did you think he really never used the guides? From what I have read of Bob uses the template guides all the time and has for years.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Tom

I used two guides, one 3/8" OD with a 3/16" bit and the inside one is a 1 1/2" OD guide with a 5/16" bit,, will clean it out on Wed. and make the lid the same way but with a lip in the top ( inside rabbit ) 


I use the guides/plunge router all the time I just don't show it much in the snapshots 

===




template tom said:


> Bj
> 
> How did you do the second groove which will be the outside of the box? By the way it is great to seeyou using the router in the plunge mode with the aid of template guides. :sold:Keep this up and I might convert you yet to the method I have developed.:sold:
> 
> Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> HI Tom
> 
> I used two guides, one 3/8" OD with a 3/16" bit and the inside one is a 1 1/2" OD guide with a 5/16" bit,, will clean it out on Wed. and make the lid the same way but with a lip in the top ( inside rabbit )
> 
> ...


Thanks Bob

It was the method I had seen in a Routing magazine many years ago, and I was not in favour of the method, so I developed some new techniques. I am sure with your experience, you would appreciate that what you are doing is alright but not suitable for novices or blind people to use, and I think it will add to greater safety awareness. There is always the fear of the guide moving from the template and cutting into the outside of the box material. Have a look at what I have suggested that is the making of a plug (Male Template) which will ensure that the sides will be blemish free. There are advantages in the use of the 'plug method'.

Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Tom

That would be the best way I'm sure,,,I just wanted to try it, I didn't use any math to make the template just a free hand thing,,I almost sure I could not do it the same for both templates..that's why I said lets just try it with one template...I don't recall seeing in a book but then I may have it's funny how things just get put in the corner of one mind..until you need to get it out and use it 

But now I have your drawing ( #slide-29-s ) so I can print it out how to any size for the next time..Thanks 


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template tom said:


> Thanks Bob
> 
> It was the method I had seen in a Routing magazine many years ago, and I was not in favour of the method, so I developed some new techniques. I am sure with your experience, you would appreciate that what you are doing is alright but not suitable for novices or blind people to use, and I think it will add to greater safety awareness. There is always the fear of the guide moving from the template and cutting into the outside of the box material. Have a look at what I have suggested that is the making of a plug (Male Template) which will ensure that the sides will be blemish free. There are advantages in the use of the 'plug method'.
> 
> Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> HI Tom
> 
> That would be the best way I'm sure,,,I just wanted to try it, I didn't use any math to make the template just a free hand thing,,I almost sure I could not do it the same for both templates..that's why I said lets just try it with one template...I don't recall seeing in a book but then I may have it's funny how things just get put in the corner of one mind..until you need to get it out and use it
> 
> ...


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi Bob
At the risk of being a pain let me say ---i have been following the thread concerning making templates and their holders . Just when i thought i had some concept of the system - i had made my template holder and installed the threaded inserts and bolts in the side ... thought i was good to go ----than i saw your photo of your board with the wooden cams and -i was wondering how i could get some more information on that system ..
and oh yes being a slow learner i saw your remarks abobut a half pattern for an oval template. I can grasp the concept of half patterns and its use--- but where or how do i get that first half... 
Thanks for your time i need this informatrion to try to stay up to speed on template tom's ooval box instructions
Bill


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bill

The oval is just 3 circles more or less  I just used a can base and a roll of masking tape the get the base design then cut it out of paper then cut it 1/2 , but you will see Tom posted a picture of the oval,all that's need is to just print it out and then you have it..

Tom's frame is a lot essayer to make but I wanted to have a bottom on mine..so it could just drop it in the router table to hold it in place and didn't care for the sides holding me back...many times I want to put in slot in a long board i.e. 24" long ,and Tom's would hold me back to one size base template, I use the ski jig for many jobs just not making boxes...

The one I made is a simple design ,just took a ruler and put on a 1" pattern and at ever cross point a drilled a hole for the 10-24 tee nut...once the tee nuts are in place you can lock down just about anything to the board..I also use the pattern to line up the project so I put a clean coat of spray paint to keep the lines in place..

It takes a bit time to drill all the holes and pocket holes on the back side for the tee nut flange ( 100 or so ) but I wanted to use it for a long time..plus if I strip one of the tee nuts I can just pop in a new one easy..

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wuzfuzde said:


> Hi Bob
> At the risk of being a pain let me say ---i have been following the thread concerning making templates and their holders . Just when i thought i had some concept of the system - i had made my template holder and installed the threaded inserts and bolts in the side ... thought i was good to go ----than i saw your photo of your board with the wooden cams and -i was wondering how i could get some more information on that system ..
> and oh yes being a slow learner i saw your remarks abobut a half pattern for an oval template. I can grasp the concept of half patterns and its use--- but where or how do i get that first half...
> Thanks for your time i need this informatrion to try to stay up to speed on template tom's ooval box instructions
> Bill


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi BobJ,

i know there is a good answer, but why the center holes in the cams? i was thinking of using dowels and there would be no centerholes from the bit.

after reviewing i see you have some with 2 holes neither on center and some with 1 hole.
sorry about that.

but it seems like i saw some with a hole in the center someone posted.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi levon

The holes are off center so you can cam them in to place,(lock them in place) you will see some two holes,, that's to let the cam get in just a bit more to the stock..

The ones with the holes in the center, came from making them with a hole saw..then I said that takes to much work, so I started to use 1 3/4" dowel rod and use the chop saw to cut them to size..I can make 10 or so in about 2 mins. or so..then drop them on the drill press and drill them all the same size...so I can use one size of screw  10-24 x 1 1/2 the norm..I started off with Phil.drive but they like to strip out easy after a time or two, so I switch over to Allen hex drive....

I also use 3/4" and 1" dowel rod, it's a lot cheaper and works just about the same..


=======




levon said:


> hi BobJ,
> 
> i know there is a good answer, but why the center holes in the cams? i was thinking of using dowels and there would be no centerholes from the bit.
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

thanks a bunch bobj,

i am going to make one sometime soon, but my first one will be kind of simple and fast, i just want to use the ski jig after a little practice to make the slots in my push block. i have just got to get my butt in gear and finish the ski jig. i dont think it will take long.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Bobj3 I just knew there would be questions on how you made that cam clamp table. I can build it from your pictures, I bet many can't.

First off I used spray adhesive to attach my 1 " graph paper to the base and saved some time.

As I make mine I will post in order pictures with dimensions and instructions.​


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Question on the "cam" clamps. How well do they hold in the event of something akin to a kickback?


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Ralph,

If done correctly, this wouldn't be an issue. Make the cams lock opposite of each other.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just some more snapshots,,, I now have a MDF Oval box  to keep George in and some of his friends  little more of sanding and he should feel right at home..

====


=======


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

That answers both of my question and I will begin construction tonite on your holder and will try the oval thing.... i am the worlds foremost starter /finishing well not so much /but each project brings hope for a completion. as soon as i master those two things - i would like to know why a ski jig is used?
thank you 
Bill/


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Ralph

No kickback ,,,,that's one of the neat thing about the fixture/jig, the cams can be just about anywhere,, at 1st. I put sand paper on them but it's not needed..they hold very well....no down presser need the router will do the job plus the way the template is in place..

Nick
I tried draft paper and it didn't work, the paper was glued down well but got ripped very easy ,then it's gone for every..,,,I'm lazy like most but the time you put in drawing the lines in is well worth it... 


Nick 
It's so simple anyone can make one, I like to have people use they heads..I don't like to remove the bikini and show all..  it can be made in so many ways...to each his own thing... 

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Ralph Barker said:


> Question on the "cam" clamps. How well do they hold in the event of something akin to a kickback?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bill

"i would like to know why a ski jig is used? "

For me it's like have the router table upside down,,,it's used the hold and stabilize the router for you plus it's SAFE my fingers/hand never gets by the router bit when it's running...I'm sure you have used your plunge router and it wants to tip to one side or the other the ski jig take that error out..

It's very hard to tell you how safe it is, until you try it,,,I said the same thing at 1st..why do I need that thing,,, now I would not be without...


======



wuzfuzde said:


> That answers both of my question and I will begin construction tonite on your holder and will try the oval thing.... i am the worlds foremost starter /finishing well not so much /but each project brings hope for a completion. as soon as i master those two things - i would like to know why a ski jig is used?
> thank you
> Bill/


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi BJ

About that jig/template holder (or whatever it needs to be called). I think it is pretty much a no brainer after looking at it for nearly 24 hours  now and I am ready to put one together as soon as I get the rest of my hardware in.

The skis are still a little confusing to me as far as the order of routing procedure goes. Do you turn the router on, make the plunge and then drive with the ski ends or drive with the router handles? Perhaps you could remove just a little more of the bikini and reveal how this works for us.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

The ski fixture ,,,,I put both hands on the router handles, the brass guide is the real key for many things you can do with it...

Think of it this way, it may help,, the skis are like out riggers on a boat,it's very hard to tip it over if they are in the water,,but in this case on top of the router table or work bench..

You got it right,,,just set the router in place and just off the wood project by just a little bit, fire up the router a plunge it in the wood,if you are using a template the guide is just put right next the template and pull it to you on your right side and go all the way around the template, then do it again, the Oval box I made took 4 passes to clean out the center and 3 passes to cut around the out side of it....but I didn't cut it free all the way,,about 1/8" from the bottom, then to the band saw to remove the small part and then to the router table and a trim bit to clean it up,,, then cut out the lid the same way then I put the lid on the box and use the trim bit to get both parts to match up right on the buttom...
I did make a error but it worked out OK,, I forgot to put the rabbit in 1st.and then flip the part over and cut it out it almost free...it's a bit tricky and you need to think about it for just a bit and see why it needs to be done, the top is the bottom of the lid thing..if the template is right on no need , but I knew my template was not right on the button, free hand draw thing for me.. 


=====






Bob said:


> Hi BJ (Mr. Jigs ), nice job on that oval box.... you 'da man as always
> 
> About that jig/template holder (or whatever it needs to be called). I think it is pretty much a no brainer after looking at it for nearly 24 hours  now and I am ready to put one together as soon as I get the rest of my hardware in.
> 
> The skis are still a little confusing to me as far as the order of routing procedure goes. Do you turn the router on, make the plunge and then drive with the ski ends or drive with the router handles? Perhaps you could remove just a little more of the bikini and reveal how this works for us.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanks BJ.... I think you have placed the final span in the bridge for me and hopefully many others on how this all plays hand in hand to achieve the method that Tom is trying to teach us hard heads that are a little slow in learning 

Now that I have the holder and the skis figured out and I'm ready to jump on board with this. All that is left is constructing the componets as time permits and I think I am good to go. The jig making will have to come with time and experience, but the concept is simple enough from what I see.

Appreciate everything both you and Tom have offered in this thread so far and looking forward to following even more to come :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome Bob

Tom is so smart, he is way over my head most of the time...I'm slow to pickup things,,,but he just trying help all of us find a safer way to use the router,,,,so I said maybe I can help people like me get it 

Tom has said it many times, just try it..and I hope others do,,,they will be amazed how neat it is..to have this fixture/jig.....

Many will say I don't need to make boxes but it's not used to just make boxes only, it can use for so many other router jobs..I said this b/4 but it's like having a router table upside down...just a lot lighter and safer.. 



========






Bob said:


> Thanks BJ.... I think you have placed the final span in the bridge for me and hopefully many others on how this all plays hand in hand to achieve the method that Tom is trying to teach us hard heads that are a little slow in learning
> 
> Now that I have the holder and the skis figured out and I'm ready to jump on board with this. All that is left is constructing the componets as time permits and I think I am good to go. The jig making will have to come with time and experience, but the concept is simple enough from what I see.
> 
> Appreciate everything both you and Tom have offered in this thread so far and looking forward to following even more to come :sold:


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Routing over the air*

It is good to see some effort producing the jigs and templates maybe not the way I had suggested and I can see some flaws in some of the presentation. As I pointed out to Bj the method that he has submitted was what I had seen a number of years ago where the routing of the base and the external shape were produced with the same template. There is always the problem of the guide leaving the template and digging in to the side when routing the external edge.

The other problem I see is a template within a template the way Bj has designed his template. This method can lead to other problems (A) it has to be a neat fit all the way round without the slightest movement. (2) there is also the problem of the two 'templates' not beeing exactly on the same level (3) you now have two templates to level of correctly. 

INHO it is better to have just one surface to work on.

Bj has found a way he would do it and he has admitted there was a ploblem fitting the lid. So I suggest you wait and see what I have to offer and there is no need to go out and purchase all the fittings to make all the cams just yet. The Cam method I introduced certainly works but not to the extent that BJ has submitted. Since I first produced this article some many years ago Approx 15yrs I hav been keeping up with technology and replaced the Jig Holder with another method.

What I ask you to do is still construct the jig holder presented as you will be able to use it over and over again with other small projects that should be produced with the router in the plunge mode and not the router table . FOR SAFETY SAKE.

Here are the next stages on the way to completing the the various processes

Tom


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> The ski fixture ,,,,I put both hands on the router handles, the brass guide is the real key for many things you can do with it...
> 
> Think of it this way, it may help,, the skis are like out riggers on a boat,it's very hard to tip it over if they are in the water,,but in this case on top of the router table or work bench..


Hi Bob:

On the skis with the threaded rods I held my hands on the handles of the router until I got used to it then I moved them to the skis themselves. On the skis with the drill rods, I fabricated the skis with handles so I hold on to the router handles until it is up to speed then I move my hands to the handles. I don't allow any disturbances when I'm using skis. If it should tip over for any reason, that's a naked bit at 30,000 rpm coming at you and they eat flesh faster than a school of Pirhana (sp?).

Allthunbs


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Allthunbs

I guess that's why I drive a Ford and you drive a Chev.
To each is own,, I look at it this way, give 10 people a job to do and they will all do it just a bit diff.but they will all get the job done the norm..

This was hard for me to get down with my boys ,I would tell them and show them how to do a job on the car/truck like replace the brake pads until one day my youngest was doing a brake job and I just watched him do it this time with my big mouth closed and I was amazed how he did it, sometimes a teacher forgets what is trying to teach ..

This is true I think for may things,, like you said you like to use the skis that's great if it helps you get the job done..
I don't see how it could tip over unless the rods are real short..or it dropped off the edge of the work bench in that case you need to made the rods longer or take more care in what your doing..like any tool more errors come by the user, not the tool the norm..


============



allthunbs said:


> Hi Bob:
> 
> On the skis with the threaded rods I held my hands on the handles of the router until I got used to it then I moved them to the skis themselves. On the skis with the drill rods, I fabricated the skis with handles so I hold on to the router handles until it is up to speed then I move my hands to the handles. I don't allow any disturbances when I'm using skis. If it should tip over for any reason, that's a naked bit at 30,000 rpm coming at you and they eat flesh faster than a school of Pirhana (sp?).
> 
> Allthunbs


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

A couple of members have contacted me because they want to have a go at making the elliptical trinket box, but like Bj and others think that a picture is worth a thousand words. As this was one of the first lessons when I was learning serious routing techniques, and the fact that I have made many of them as presents in various polished woods as well as spray painted, I thought that, without wishing to protrude into this thread, it might just be helpful to view these shots in conjunction with the lessons. As you can see, it's not a true photo shoot, just shots showing how the various stages should look if the instructions given elsewhere are followed.


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

*ski*



bobj3 said:


> Hi Bill
> 
> "i would like to know why a ski jig is used? "
> 
> ...


This is becoming scary I'm studying all this information and have some understanding of whats being offered and my understanding it is the scary part-- 
anyway when the skis are installed et-al and all things are ready to go- the plunge router is in the up position therefore the ski sides are on the table... My question now is when you plunge the router to take its bite- will the sides of the skis still be resting on the work table or just elevated slightly up off the table and as such act as the out rigger safety device .

Thank you for your time thus far .I now leave for my wood shed to construct the ski and check my supply of band-aid s.
Thanks again 
Bill


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob said:


> Hi BJ (Mr. Jigs ), nice job on that oval box.... you 'da man as always
> 
> About that jig/template holder (or whatever it needs to be called). I think it is pretty much a no brainer after looking at it for nearly 24 hours  now and I am ready to put one together as soon as I get the rest of my hardware in.
> 
> The skis are still a little confusing to me as far as the order of routing procedure goes. Do you turn the router on, make the plunge and then drive with the ski ends or drive with the router handles? Perhaps you could remove just a little more of the bikini and reveal how this works for us.


I have promoted the skis more than anyone on this forum because I believe in them as a very important addition to any woodworkers shop. However, as I have stated on numerous occasions, they are not suitable to solve EVERY routing problem. I personally don't think that it's a good idea to use the skis when the router has to be plunged into the wood because the downward pressure will very slightly flex the rods, especially the thin ones found on many American routers, and when the router is locked and the pressure released, the cutter will rise slightly. Where the skis really come into their own is when the cutter depth can be set away from the work-piece and then entered from free space as shown in these two shots of entirely different uses for the skis.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

harrysin said:


> I have promoted the skis more than anyone on this forum because I believe in them as a very important addition to any woodworkers shop. However, as I have stated on numerous occasions, they are not suitable to solve EVERY routing problem. I personally don't think that it's a good idea to use the skis when the router has to be plunged into the wood because the downward pressure will very slightly flex the rods, especially the thin ones found on many American routers, and when the router is locked and the pressure released, the cutter will rise slightly. Where the skis really come into their own is when the cutter depth can be set away from the work-piece and then entered from free space as shown in these two shots of entirely different uses for the skis.


Firstly, wuzfuzde, the skis remain firmly on the table. 

Hi Harry: I've got to be the devil's advocate on this one. Yes, the bars do flex but only when pressure is applied. I put the base plate on a block, set the depth, then remove the block. I only do this for the final depth adjustment. If I'm doing an intermediate operation, I just "wing it."

I would use skis and take, maybe, a 1/4" depth of cut each pass. The skis, added to the template, would give excellent control and accuracy. One of the things that I couldn't figure out in Tom's explanation; does he glue up a stack and start "carving" the stack, or rout the layers and glue up the layers?

If he carves the stack, skis would be invaluable but if he routed layers, skis would be of little use but shiis or a foot would be a major benefit.

Allthunbs


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i wish there was a video on you tube or somewhere to see how these oval boxes are routed.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

harrysin said:


> I have promoted the skis more than anyone on this forum because I believe in them as a very important addition to any woodworkers shop. However, as I have stated on numerous occasions, they are not suitable to solve EVERY routing problem. I personally don't think that it's a good idea to use the skis when the router has to be plunged into the wood because the downward pressure will very slightly flex the rods, especially the thin ones found on many American routers, and when the router is locked and the pressure released, the cutter will rise slightly. Where the skis really come into their own is when the cutter depth can be set away from the work-piece and then entered from free space as shown in these two shots of entirely different uses for the skis.



So Harry, are you saying that the skis are mainly for fixed base (or locked plunge) type routing rather than plunge routing? I can see what you are telling us and why, but now I am confused on how to introduce the bit to the wood.

I would also like to thank you for all your past posts on this subject as I don't think we would have come along as far as we have had it not been for your help in translating this method thru your photos early on.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Now I'm confused ,,,,,If the router is right on top of the template how can it plunge any deeper or less..you said the rods will flex on the ski jigs made in the states..I don't know that can be,,again if the router base is right on the template how can the rods flex..and if they did it's no big deal..

I can see what you are saying if the router is up off the template but the guide must be in the template in order for it to follow the template..almost all my guides are 1/4" long the norm, I know you use the 40mm guide and it's about about 1" long,,,but I use 1/4" to 1/2" thick stock to make the templates..

But I can see it if you are not using a guide and doing free hand but for me the router is still all the way down on top the stock and then I plunge the router down into the stock, so to speak,,,it's off the stock by .010 maybe ,so it can side easy over the stock free and easy.. 

I'm confused :help:

=========


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I thought I read that Harry is one that leaves the router base up off the work when using skiis, which I did not ever like. If I am mistaken I am sorry Harry maybe it was someone else, but I think somewhere on the forum it is shown that the base is up off the work in your normal operation. 

I want my base on the template or work and thought it different the post mentioned leaving the base up off the work. I'll try to find the thread I am referring to.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nick

I see it in this post
Router Forums - View Single Post - Routing with Template Tom

But I don't get it...I don't know if he is making a free hand sign or ?,,,but the router is way off the board..and I don't know why...when I do it the router is all the way down on the board..the rods can be moved up or down just for that I thought..
maybe is using a real long bit and the router can't go up that high for the long bit..

======:nono:


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

Hi Bob
Me again --- I'm making what passes for progress. i have the frame built with the adjustment screws on the side -i also have the pattern/ template board drilled and ready to go - i have elected to try to use pocket hole screws in lieu of the other method if they don't hold in my plywood base I'll replace them as needed with the inserts. Anyway , it time to cut the Cams i will be making them 3/8 inch thick for holding the work piece and 1 inch thick for the template holder... will those thickness measurements work ? 
Thanks again 
Bill


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Nick
> 
> I see it in this post
> Router Forums - View Single Post - Routing with Template Tom
> ...


Bj 
You are usually good at picking up points on other photographs that have been posted and asking questions. 

In photo one Harry is simply dressing the extenal edges of his box to level it off and in photo 2 he is actually levelling a 'slab' of material and therefore the base should not be resting on the material.

Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

I still have many photographs to submit to the completion of the box. I made my remarks to Bj re his approach to producing the box and there are flaws with what he has submitted. Bj has 'jumped the gun' so to speak and gone the full distance and completed the box, but it is not the way I am suggesting, I see some others are also going down the path he has taken, you are giving yourself more work and the method of holding the material and the template is overkill. Yes it works for Bj as he has demonstrated, but I am sure the method I have submitted regarding holding the material and jig and template will prove to be more convenient to use. (Believe me I have been down that road before I developed the Simple Jig holder I have presented here. 

So I would suggest to others, especially those who are new to routing, stick to what I have produced and do not be distracted with other presentations, if you do not like what I have submitted then you can develop your own method. This is only a start and as I have said for a number of years on this forum *Give it a try *

I would like to see some of your efforts posted to the forum, how can I help if I am unaware of the progress you are making. Right from the start there were pictures posted as to what we were all aiming for, but there are processes to follow to get to each stage of construction.

Photographs are worth a thousand words, and Harry has submitted a collection, but without the written words I am sure that you would never be able to produce the jigs and templates to produce the boxes simply from a group of photographs. 

This is a lesson on procedure, not what has been achieved and all I ask of you is to follow what I have submitted. Bj has his way of producing the boxes and even though they are not what I had presented in the initial posting they might be good enough for him. I would like to take you a stage further and produce some lovely boxes similar to what has been posted by Harry, and those who asked for pictures why did you not make your comments to me if you wanted some help. I will stress again PICTURES are not the full answer to producing the boxes.

Having got that off my chest I can now post some new details.

Tom


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

template tom,
do you have some type of video showing this more clearly? sometimes people who really want to learn, get lost in things like these slides and want to see more. no disrespect to you but things like this can be hypnotizing or almost numbing, whereas a video would be so easy to follow.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Tom,

Still following very closely with what you are sharing and appreciate what you are doing here very much along with so many others. I want to state that at this time I am not working on this particular project, but have every intention in doing so shortly down the road. I have finished your template holder and am working on one like BJ made just for kicks and to have both at my disposal. I also want to finish my skis and get a little practice in before attempting anything too serious such as this project. I also need to make that project I posted about a couple of weeks ago that you helped me with before starting this one. I want to try everything in my power to follow what you drew up and see if I can do it that way so I can learn what this is all about.

I know you want to see more people posting their progress, but you must be patient with everyone's schedule as they will work on it as their time frame permits. I know you are used to working working in a classroom environment and on a schedule, but the classroom here may react a little different. Please just be patient with us and continue on with what you are sharing. Many like myself have things in life that get in the way a little, but we will get there, just a little slower than you might be expecting of us.

Thanks again for taking the time to help us in this manner.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob said:


> So Harry, are you saying that the skis are mainly for fixed base (or locked plunge) type routing rather than plunge routing? I can see what you are telling us and why, but now I am confused on how to introduce the bit to the wood.
> 
> I would also like to thank you for all your past posts on this subject as I don't think we would have come along as far as we have had it not been for your help in translating this method thru your photos early on.
> 
> Please feel free to be a part of this thread. The more help we can get the better. :yes4:


It's important to remember that the skis are NOT used for ALL types of projects, where the router can be well supported ON the template, as shown in this shot, then the skis are redundant. The second shot shows the cutter entering from "free space" through the waste material.

When using the skis, the router IS locked.

In some cases like in the second shot, it's fine for the router to sit on the "plug" and the skis ensure that the router doesn't wobble, in other cases like the shot of the sign in an earlier post having a large amount of background material removed and the raised letters aren't necessarily even height, then the router should be above the wood a reasonable distance, this also give lots of clearance for the debris to be blown or sucked away.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

levon said:


> template tom,
> do you have some type of video showing this more clearly? sometimes people who really want to learn, get lost in things like these slides and want to see more. no disrespect to you but things like this can be hypnotizing or almost numbing, whereas a video would be so easy to follow.



Levon, for years I have been trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to guide Tom on the way to present his material. I wish that he would follow his own principles, where he states in his notes "use the same old methods and you will get the same old results" Need I say more!

In my not so humble opinion, everyone should make a jig/template holder as described, also a set of skis. Once you have these plus a collection of template guides, you will be in a position to experiment based on the snippets that you have been able to understand, and anything you don't, just ask!

Where our jig/template holders are 300mm x 400mm, in Imperial countries make them 12" x 15" , so that you can buy MDF pre-cut 12" wide, making it easier to make jigs and templates to fit the holder.


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## opelblues (Aug 22, 2008)

Gee I go a way for a couple of days of work, 14hr day i mite say :lazy2:- and i get back and i find my self at the back of the class room,
This reminds me off my teachers in TAFE, 20 years ago, not much has changed - 6 m0onths of blue steel and a file before I could touch a lathe or a welder, and don’t start me how many times i was told that i was holding the hammer wrong or welding the wrong direction - hey I’m left handed but i also use my right hand

had a look a your blog page Template Tom, lots of information and I see you had been doing this the same way for a long time, so I should be able to pick up a lot of very well explained and presented information good for this type of routing or process
With all the experience and knowledge that you have gained it’s a shame that all that knowledge will be lost one day so keep posting – because once it’s on the web it will never go away, like letters or PowerPoint files using templates over the years.

Just a note my great grand father was a wheel write and my grand father was a smithy and a wagon driver with 6 team, and my dad was a engine driver for QR (from steam) keep it up please this is fun


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

harrysin said:


> Levon, for years I have been trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to guide Tom on the way to present his material. I wish that he would follow his own principles, where he states in his notes "use the same old methods and you will get the same old results" Need I say more!
> 
> In my not so humble opinion, everyone should make a jig/template holder as described, also a set of skis. Once you have these plus a collection of template guides, you will be in a position to experiment based on the snippets that you have been able to understand, and anything you don't, just ask!
> 
> Where our jig/template holders are 300mm x 400mm, in Imperial countries make them 12" x 15" , so that you can buy MDF pre-cut 12" wide, making it easier to make jigs and templates to fit the holder.


hi Harry,

good post, you will be pleased to know im working on my sji s now and will build a holder thats simple to use the skis then build one that has the cams on it. thanks for all the help.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

levon said:


> template tom,
> do you have some type of video showing this more clearly? sometimes people who really want to learn, get lost in things like these slides and want to see more. no disrespect to you but things like this can be hypnotizing or almost numbing, whereas a video would be so easy to follow.


*Levon and all those others who are thinking along this line*.
I am in the process of putting all my written material to DVDs but you must remember you will never learn the technique I have developed simply watching it being done in motion. You need to learn the process of how it was done. I did not have a DVD to look at, or was there any written material available when I began using the guides , I had to start from scratch with sketches and diagrams whilst sitting around with a writing pad in my hand and I still have a great number of the original material still in storage. I had to master the way it could be done with safety. I would spend many hours trying to put together what I had written. What I have presented so far is only a sample of the written material I have put together, a process of ideas to complete the project. There was a lot of trial and error and changes of ideas to finally come to what I have achieved today.

Levon and others this is only the introduction of what is capable with the use of the guides and each person has to understand the procedure of how the guides are used.

Yes the video will help, but only once the method is understood, you can watch a presenter at any wood show going through his procedures and without a firm understanding of the method you will not be able to produce the item he was demonstrating.

Presenting a list of photographs is just the same, there is a need for written information with detailed drawings of how the project was completed along with photographs and that is what I am trying to present here with this project, It seems that everyone just wants a picture of what has been done.

If you are prepared to follow in detail what I have presented so far and that is, making an elliptical trinket box in your favourite timber, photograph was posted. Producing the article with complete safety, constructing the simple JIG holder, (the one that I have submitted), preparing a template with an elliptical cut-out shape, having a large template guide and access to a dish cutter, and that is about as far as I have presented so far. I could have submitted the complete range of written word,detailed drawings to substantiate what I have written, and I have been mindful that not everyone is ready to drop everything and proceed with the project and that is why I have submitted so much at the one time.

With what I have put forward you should be able to rout out the base of the box and that is all at this stage and I would like to see some of the results from those who are really interested in embracing this style of routing.
If you have any questions about the process direct them to myself and I will try and answer each one.

Tom


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

Harry 
I am still struggling with this concept -but have made the holder and the template and drilled all the holes ---- I even experimented with my first template and it wasn't too bad ..After reviewing the procedures for this oval box -i found out i need " plugs.".. I understand plugs are for doing something for the lid fit.... anyway at this point i am lost as to what constitutes the measurements for a plug and how to make them ...do you have a minute and let me know how to construct the "plugs" 
Thank you 
Bill


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I will 2nd that Bill I need help on the plugs too 


=======


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Having a slight problem with my IP at the moment so have moved to another

Template Tom

Just a note to add this is not a show and tell presentation it is designed to teach the method step by step and I notice with regards to producing the plugs that some are waiting to see what to do or how it is done. It has been presented in a previous posting.

Template Tom


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

wuzfuzde said:


> Harry
> I am still struggling with this concept -but have made the holder and the template and drilled all the holes ---- I even experimented with my first template and it wasn't too bad ..After reviewing the procedures for this oval box -i found out i need " plugs.".. I understand plugs are for doing something for the lid fit.... anyway at this point i am lost as to what constitutes the measurements for a plug and how to make them ...do you have a minute and let me know how to construct the "plugs"
> Thank you
> Bill


Bill
I did say from the start if you have a question you want answered then let *me* know. If you go over the presentation I have submitted then you will see how the plugs are produced. You will require two; one for the base and one for the lid and it is always good procedure to prepare these before you proceed to rout the base and the underside of the lid.

I have posted the template guides and cutters I would use but as they are metric measurements then you will have to select your own imperial. Yes it will require a little mathematics and personally I would not like to do the calculations in imperial as it has been a few years that we changed to metric.

You mentioned in your post about drilling all the holes, are you looking at what I have presented or are you going with some other presentation as I make no mention to a large number of holes.

Template Tom


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> I will 2nd that Bill I need help on the plugs too
> 
> 
> =======


Bj

All the information required to produce the plugs have already been posted

Templatr Tom


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

wuzfuzde said:


> Harry
> I am still struggling with this concept -but have made the holder and the template and drilled all the holes ---- I even experimented with my first template and it wasn't too bad ..After reviewing the procedures for this oval box -i found out i need " plugs.".. I understand plugs are for doing something for the lid fit.... anyway at this point i am lost as to what constitutes the measurements for a plug and how to make them ...do you have a minute and let me know how to construct the "plugs"
> Thank you
> Bill


Bill, as much as I would like to help you, and I know that I could, I do think that these questions should be addressed to the author, if his presentations are difficult to understand, then you should tell him so and explain what type of format you would be more able to understand.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Okay guys, this thread is a routing lesson sponsored by Template Tom and ALL posts need to be focused on that. Please take any personal conversations to Private Messaging or email and any alternate methods to a new thread.

In other words..... LET'S PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC and the TOPIC IS making this box as outlined by Template Tom.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Routing on the air*

*To all who are interested in producing the box with what I have presented. *

Contrary to what has been posted by others, I re-iterate that a collection of photographs or a display on DVD will not explain the method and would leave you confused on the details required.

If you are following the procedure I have submitted then you should have a Jig Holder constructed, a template to produce the base of the box, and a second template with a smaller cut-out shape. (Unless you have very large guides.

I had also presented the details on how to produce two 'plugs' that will be required. The details are in metric and it will be necessary for you to do the calculations in imperial. My apology for not doing that calculation for you and maybe someone else has produced the solution and might be kind enough to post the calculations. In the mean time I will go to my drawing board and present a detailed drawing and you have to do is fill in your own calculations.

I will post this drawing as soon as possible as without the plugs it will be pointless to continue. As I said the details are already posted. Enclosed is the reminder. This detail is only subject to using a 40mm guide with a 19mm cutter to rout the inside of the box and the inside of the lid.
Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Routing on the air*



template tom said:


> *To all who are interested in producing the box with what I have presented. *
> 
> Contrary to what has been posted by others, I re-iterate that a collection of photographs or a display on DVD will not explain the method and would leave you confused on the details required.
> 
> ...


Here are the two drawings that will help you to select your guides and cutters and also give you the opportunity to rout a couple of 'plugs' you will require.

This is another good reason for selecting a template guide as large as the one I have been talking about for years.

With the large template guide and the large dish (bowl) cutter to rout out the material you will be able to calculate the 'Off-set' produced with the combination. Now all you have to d is find a template guide and cutter combination to give you the required details required which I have highlighted in the drawing.

This should get you thinking there are other ways of using your router, if you are using metric then use the information I have posted.

Once I am convinced that you are up to proceeding to the next stage I will submit the next details.

This is the only way I can think of producing a plug that will fit neatly into the various cut-outs subject to the shape produced, if it is a true elliptical shape then there will be no problem, if you have produced it with the aid of the scroll saw as previously suggested then you may have some problem with producing the plugs, but it is still worth a go.
Till next time
Tom


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Hi all
Now I am having big trouble with my IP and I have withdrawn my membership today so I will have to continue using this name for the moment.

I am ready to submit new pics if you are ready to continue. As a matter of interest I came accross a dvd I was trying out a couple of years ago and it was on this very same subject, not that I can post to the forum details of the various procedures in motion but I will produce some stills from it and include them in my posting.

If you have a question please submit it and I will try and assist you.

I will transfer the material from my other computer ready for posting.
I also hope to have a new email address up and running by this evening


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Enclosed are a few pics I have captured from a video I had produced 2 years ago, also the next stage to completing the base of the box


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Enclosed are a few pics as promised
Tom
(Template Tom)


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

Hi all

Just as a matter of interest if anyone has not received a reply to a PM sent to template Tom it is because I am unable to reply to that post and I suggest you PM Doak.

There has been a number of posting by others on the use of the Skis. It was not necessary to have access to the skis until you are ready to rout the the external edges of the base of the box.

You should have a *'Jig Holder' *the simple one I suggested, Also *two templates *are required one cut-out smaller than the other, I have also suggested that two *'Plugs' *are required. I know it is a big ask and as Bob suggested, I should give time for members to get to this stage, I am quite prepared to wait and as I have said in the past ask the questions but I would like them directed to me and not others.

I consider what we are getting involved in, is* New routing techniques* and it will take a while to get to grips with it. Harry obviously has many of the answers as he was fortunate enough to have me looking over his shoulder when he was constructing these boxes some eight years ago. It was not necessary to present him with the details I have been posting, at that time I had put pen to paper preparing the written material to try and explain the method. Eveything was set up for Harry to follow Jig holder, templates, cutters and of course a set of skis.

I can do a photo-shoot, as I can pull the pics from the video I made two years ago, but pics will not answer all your questions hence the reason for the written material. Also the video I had produced which did not contain the written word, only how the various stages were produced .

This is not a five minute lesson on how the guides are used, or how the material is to be held, or even suggestions of what guides and cutters will be used, and then we have the introduction of the 'Ski Mode' which is also new to most members; which took me a long time for some members to embrace the method when I introduced the method to the forum.

Yes; Harry has commented on what I have been saying for years; *"Keep using the method you have been using for years and you will still come up with the same results"* and before Harry does answer this point I know what he is referring to, it is not the method of using the router, but the way I have been presenting my material to the forum. Talking about a method and presenting a photo-shoot is entirely different to writing about it. This method of using the router has not simply to be shown, it has to be taught and as an ex school teacher this is the only way I can make my presentation as you are not in my classroom, or attending any of my workshops gaining the information required. 

If you are of the opinion that what I have presented is of no interest to you, maybe I should give up now and not waste both your time and mine.

I took on this challenge to see if it was possible to introduce the method I have developed, posting to the forum, I have been able to 'teach' the method some years ago by email, but I suppose I was only working with one person and there were no interference from others. It was my intention to offer the information to those who would be interested by email, but I was persuaded by one of the moderators to submit the information to the forum so that more people could take advantage of what I had to offer.

If all you want is a lot of pictures taken from my video, then I can do just that, without the details presented on how the various procedures were achieved with the detailed drawings I have submitted.

Tom
(Template Tom)


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## Doak (Mar 20, 2009)

*New Email address*

As from today Tuesday 14th April I do not have my old email address and my PM can no longer be addressed to Template Tom as I am unable to access them so if you wish to contact me use the PM for Doak. I also have a new email address as from today if you wish to email me

Tom
Template Tom


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