# Something other than Fusion 360...



## graciestlou (Feb 21, 2020)

I just can't do it anymore...if I continue using Fusion 360 my head is going to explode. 

It's FREE, which is about the only good thing about it. 

Any suggestions on alternate software that will run on Windows 10, is NOT cloud based, and I can import .dxf files into it? I don't need anything fancy as it's all 2d that I'm using. I did look at some other threads and looked up a couple of suggestions from those; it doesn't look like Vcarve Pro runs on windows 10 and it looks like Enroute might be cloud based. I really need something that is local. We live out in the boonies and our only option for internet is wi-fi and it isn't very good.

In case you need to know, I have a CarveKing and use Universal Gcode Sender. I design everything in AutoCAD and import. Thanks!


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

V-Carve: Operating System: Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 or *Windows 10* with 4Gb RAM

Enroute is really nice but has a steep cost. Subscription mode for me
is a PITA updating the license every month.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Kim! Head on over to the introduction area and tell us a little about yourself, your shop, etc. Add your location to your profile, as well.

What are you designing in 2D? That may have some bearing on the suggestions you'll get for software.

I use F360 almost every day - love it! What's giving you problems - CAD or CAM?

David


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Start here with the free trials.

See if it works for you

https://www.vectric.com/free-trial


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I can attest, vcarve runs fine on win 10. (Would be a major cockup if it didn't).

David is right to ask you to state what you are trying to do. There is no one size fits all.

F360 is, indeed, complex and has a bit of an odd approach to UI but once you wrap you head around that, it flows pretty well. One thing you have to get past is the fact that it is modal in the extreme - lots of modes and everything is different in each mode. But, there are lots of good quality tutorials out there, spend more time with them. I think you will find it gets a lot easier.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I absolutely HATE this subscription BS. If it was $10 per year, sure. But when they talk $2,400.00 PER YEAR, that means if I use the software OCCASIONALLY over 20 years, I have paid them $48,000.00 (plus anticipated increases in the annual rate) for limited use.

SketchUp did the same $%^&* thing!

Photoshop lost me with the subscriptions. So did Illustrator, and several other programs. I either use the old versions on my PCs or I do without. I will not cave to the extortion movement.

Joe


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

The Hobbyist said:


> I absolutely HATE this subscription BS. If it was $10 per year, sure. But when they talk $2,400.00 PER YEAR, that means if I use the software OCCASIONALLY over 20 years, I have paid them $48,000.00 (plus anticipated increases in the annual rate) for limited use.
> 
> SketchUp did the same $%^&* thing!
> 
> ...


If you are looking for an illustrator replacement, take a look at Affinity Designer. $50 one time cost, very good UX and it rivals illustrator in features.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Kim welcome to the Router Forums.

The Vectric software works on Windows 10 so that is not a problem. You say all you do is 2D woke with DXF files so the better fit for you would be Vectric's Cut2D Desktop (limited to 24" x 24" project) is $149, Cut2D Pro (unlimited job size) is $449. To upgrade from one of there programs to a different one you only pay the differance in cost between the two.

Here is a link so you can comapre Vectric's different titles https://www.vectric.com/products


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

I would look also at the new Carveco Maker, $15/mo or $90/year (and yes, you can also buy a perpetual license, I would wait until you figure out if you like it). All the features of VCarve Pro, no size limitations. So you can use for a loooong time before laying out VCarve Pro type money, getting all updates that come out during your subscription. Vectric tends to put out major updates yearly, with every other one being a paid upgrade. Carveco has settled on a process of incremental updates several times a year (nearly monthly). There are many more Vectric tutorials, because it has been out longer, but I have never had difficulty following a Vectric tutorial using my Carveco, and they have been releasing many Carveco Maker and Maker+ (similar to Aspire) tutorials recently. Maker and Maker+ just came out in December, but are based on ArtCAM which was the standard for the last 25 years and there are lots of artcam tutorials out there that you can use.

Depending on the types of work you do, the vcarve/carveco programs are very easy, they are designed only for CNC router work. Fusion 360 has abominably primitive text and freeform drawing capabilities, so many times you have to design in something else and bring in most linework. In vcarve or Maker, there are good drawing and text tools, no need to do that externally, unless there is a design you buy or find online that you would like to import. Both import many formats including DXF, EPS, PDF, etc. (SVGs import to vcarve, coming soon to Maker). They also import bitmap files, and you can "trace" to vectors. These are better programs for more "artistic" type designs, signs, etc. than Fusion 360. I use Fusion for things like jigs, fixtures, assemblies, etc. So depends on what types of work you do or want to do.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I noticed in Carvco's last video that they have added shape creation similar to Vectric's to their software, that's a big plus.


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## dman2 (Sep 4, 2019)

PhilBa said:


> If you are looking for an illustrator replacement, take a look at Affinity Designer. $50 one time cost, very good UX and it rivals illustrator in features.


Do you know of a Photoshop replacement?


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

dman2 said:


> Do you know of a Photoshop replacement?


Depends on what you want. If you do RAW processing, DxO PhotoLab is very good. Best RAW processing and noise reduction out there. Something like 150 depending on the options you go with.

If you only do JPGs, then Affinity Photo is an outstanding choice. $50, $35 on the frequent sales. 

I actually have and use both.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

I have a Shapeoko and use Carbide Create. They have a new Pro Feature but the price has not been determined as yet. The problem with Carbide Create there are no post processors for other machines. I have been considering buying Vetric Desktop. The expense is about $450.00 for the current version and has lifetime support. If they make a major revision you have to pay again but minor updates are free. Plus if you start to get advanced you can upgrade to the pro version by only paying the difference between the two versions. 

Free or open source CAD/CAM usually only take you so far. If you are into carving wood then the Vetric may be the best. IF you are into creating complex assemblies then Fusion 360 may be best. But if you are carving wood, signs and so forth then Vetric is pretty good. They also have a good support forum and good support.

Lets face it you get what you pay for. Pay nothing and you get a little more than nothing.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

If you go Vectric go for the Pro version. And then they will give you that credit for Aspire when you're ready because you will want it.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

graciestlou said:


> design everything in AutoCAD and import. Thanks!



I wrote an AutoCAD macro that exports g-code directly from AutoCAD. I use it for 95% of the work I do.
Not perfect, but it's free.
AutoCAD 2 G-Code


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

dman2 said:


> Do you know of a Photoshop replacement?



Gimp


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## graciestlou (Feb 21, 2020)

Thanks for all the responses. I will check out the suggestions. The issue that I'm having with Fusion 360 is performance based. I spent 7+ hours!!!! trying to get a design ran through it and it isn't the first time. It was a little more intricate but still all 2D....pocket selections and contour selections. Artistic, sign like things....LOL. I ended up breaking it all down into 8 separate .nc files (which causes other issues as when I "return to zero" it doesn't actually return to zero; it's off as much as a 16th on X, Y, and/or Z). SOOOO aggravating. I'm sure it's a combination of things...internet connection, computer processing speed. Another issue is probably the fact that I can't do actual circles; I have to do 100 sided polygons because an actual circle cuts segmented (it looks like an octagon rather than a circle), so it does make my files a lot bigger then they should be. No one has ever been able to tell me why it does that. Autodesk says it's my router, Millright says it's not but hasn't said much more than that. It doesn't matter if I design it in AutoCAD or Fusion either; both ways still cut segmented. Arcs too...anything curved that's one entity in the design. I've found ways around all those issues though (but if anyone has any ideas as to why it does this, I'd be interested in hearing them), so my biggest thing is just getting something NOT cloud based, which, thanks to all of you, I have a starting point. Thank you very much!

I'll head over to the intro area but a quick aside; I have an AAS in Drafting Technology and designed structural, wood trusses for 15 years using all kinds of CAD based software. I LOVE AutoCAD and went with the CarveKing because they suggested Fusion 360 and I thought the learning curve would be less because it's Autodesk. Ehhh...it was and it wasn't. BalloonEngineer is right about the primitive text and freeform drawing capabilities of Fusion. And I'm with you, Hobbyist, on the subscription crap.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

graciestlou said:


> Another issue is probably the fact that I can't do actual circles; I have to do 100 sided polygons because an actual circle cuts segmented (it looks like an octagon rather than a circle), so it does make my files a lot bigger then they should be. No one has ever been able to tell me why it does that.


In the Passes tab, do you have Smoothing checked, Kim? If not, set your Tolerance to 0.001" and check Smoothing, which I also set to 0.001" and my circles come out round. Smoothing also removes all the minute segments and makes your files smaller.

David


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

EstlCAM is a very inexpensive CAM program, that' pretty popular.
https://www.estlcam.de/

CAMBAM too.
CamBam CNC Software


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## gjoakes (Mar 23, 2019)

First time posting ...

I use Fusion 360 feeding into Mach 3 control software. No problem with circle and arc support. Not sure what your control software is but that may be the issue. I would suggest that Fusion is not the problem.

If you do not have high-speed internet service then you definitely do not want a cloud-based solution - Fusion or anything else. I have 100 Mb/sec service and Fusion still struggles sometimes (conversion of large STL for instance).


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Greg! Head on over to the introduction area and tell us a little about yourself.

We have a 200 Mbps connection and I sometimes wait on F360 if I have text or a lot of nodes, both of which seem to bring F360 to its knees. I don't know if that's my computer not being quite fast enough or the connection but I've grown accustomed to the slight delay and it's not a big deal, doesn't happen often.

David


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

Fusion 360 saves and imports/exports files to the cloud, but it doesn't run "in the cloud". If you have performance issues with Fusion, it's likely due to your PC.


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## markbdusted (Dec 26, 2013)

graciestlou said:


> (which causes other issues as when I "return to zero" it doesn't actually return to zero; it's off as much as a 16th on X, Y, and/or Z).


This indicates you are loosing steps. or maybe moving the spindle during bit changes.
What is your machine and what control program do you use?


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## dmengland45 (Oct 1, 2019)

I use V-carve Pro on windows 10 all the time. version 9.5.


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## meganr (Mar 3, 2021)

dman2 said:


> Do you know of a Photoshop replacement?


Affinity also has a Photo program. It's $50. I used Adobe until they started the subscription service, moved to Affinity and have been extremely pleased.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

What are you drawing? If it is VECTOR art (Line drawing) then there are a few good options. If you are working with RASTER art, that is a bit more complicated.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

meganr said:


> Affinity also has a Photo program. It's $50. I used Adobe until they started the subscription service, moved to Affinity and have be extremely pleased.


Welcome to the forum, Megan! I got Affinity Photo last year for $25 when the Covid crisis hit; it's a powerful program but I haven't learned it yet. I use it sparingly but need to dive in and learn the software.

David


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## Old Ray (Feb 19, 2021)

honesttjohn said:


> If you go Vectric go for the Pro version. And then they will give you that credit for Aspire when you're ready because you will want it.


 Good advice,,, I learned how to use V carve pro while I was healing up from carpal tunnel surgery,, choked a bit when I purchased it$816 with the 3d images, but glad I did. Cool thing, all the programs I wrote in the trial version , I saved and re opened in the purchased version bussed through everything and then saved them in where I could use them all ,


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## DsKnees (Mar 4, 2021)

graciestlou said:


> I just can't do it anymore...if I continue using Fusion 360 my head is going to explode.


I'm just writing to say F360 hurts my head too! (It may be a condition caused by prior AutoCAD experience?)


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @meganr


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