# Noob: CNC Router vs Laser



## jezter6 (Mar 30, 2015)

Hi All. Knowing that I'm on a CNC Router forum, I'm figuring I know which way most people will lean...but I thought I'd at least give my question a try.

As the title suggests, I'm a noob to the whole thing. What I'm looking to do is cut out parts with some minor etching done to some of them. I'd say more than 60% would be out of 1/8th" craft plywood, with the possibility of expanding out as my skillset grows.

This is a hobby that, if turns out decent, could become a side business, though my primary job is still in computers/tech so I'm not looking to instantly become a CNC business.

Right now, I'm selling some custom pieces online that I drew and have a local engraver laser cut for me. But I'd like to find ways to bring the costs down a little by having my own machine(s) and get my project wood delivered to me instead of paying his resale prices.

But I don't know much about it other than my wife and I draw some stuff, and he sends it to me finished. I'd like to learn more and be able to test drawings/designs without the cost of retail, and reduce my overall costs for projects.

I know very little about operation of either laser cutters or CNC routers. In looking at hobbyist/newbie pieces - it seems that the price comparison has them pretty close in overall cost.

If any of you have used both types and wouldn't mind pushing me in the right direction for research, it would be greatly appreciated.

What would be the most noob friendly? Can I realistically get a good home hobby model to play with for at/under ~$3k all in including software that would handle the boards (12x24") without having to cut the stock board size down to fit?

Thank you all for reading.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Alan.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello Todd welcome to the forum.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Geez Alan it takes my 80 watt laser running at full power and fairly slow to cut threw that wood they use for model airplanes (not balsa wood) . It's a hard wood and I believe it was 1/8" . Definately wasn't thicker .
I spent 9K plus shipping and tax and that's for a chinese laser with a 900mm by 600mm bed . A USA built one would be far more from what I've seen . 3 grand may get you a small 30 watt laser but it's not going to cut that wood imo , well unless you want to run it over and over 100 times .

I think your going to end up going with a CNC router table . I'm no expert so it will interesting to hear the pros opinions


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## jezter6 (Mar 30, 2015)

Oh yeah - I know I can't get into a laser for $3k. The minimum I'm thinking on that is about $7000 and that would be for something like a very entry Full Spectrum or something from a company called Boss Lasers which seems to take the Chinese stuff similar to the eBay models and upgrades it a bit.

But to get one the size of my wanted work size - I think $9-10k easy. And then the thought of replacing a laser tube at over $1k...

I figure I could eat through a dozen spindles or Bosch before I'd even hit the cost of 1 replacement laser.

While I could spend as much on a laser and get a much bigger, badder CNC router, I'm trying to start off with something that will work for a hobby and maybe get into a "once in a while" odd job that pays, an maybe work it towards one of the cooler tables.

The last 48 hours have me researching Shapeoko, X-Carve, and the ~$1000-1500 kits.

But as a noob, I just don't know what all I really need. On every site that sells kits, there's a half dozen software decisions, usually minimum of $500/ea, and then people saying there's bunches of free or cheaper tools out there.

I have no idea what I'm really getting into. Is there a really GOOD newbie primer on the basics of hobby CNC? 

Thanks all for the welcome!


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

we cut out 1/4" hardwood with our laser. We can do 1/4" plywood if we cut it twice. Mostly use cherry cause it looks so nice when it rastors. We do have a router also. It all depends on curves and how tight they need to be.


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## Keith Hodges (Apr 30, 2013)

I've been doing CNC carving for two years, and decided your only limited by your imagination as to what you can do with them. Amazing stuff and will thrill any potential customer you might have. Just started playing with granite etchings using a diamond drag bit, and really impressed. That being said, a friend that just went into laser engraving is doing some really impressive work with his new laser engraver. The photos he's doing on granite is absolutely stunning. With a laser you can do everything that a CNC router can do, but, I don't see the laser doing deep cut 3D wood carvings. Someone might prove me wrong on that, just haven't seen any yet. Generlly lasers are quite a bit more expensive, and what's already been said above is true. Most full size CNCs are $7000.00 or more also. Not trying to sell you on any particular brand, but from my personal experience, Sharks sold by Rockler are good machines, and a good value, with a few models in your price range. Not without some easily fixed problems, but I am totally satisfied with mine. Do your research, visit their sites, and make your own decision. Their are many videos on utube. One thing I've been told by lots of people, stay away from the cheap Chinese models like you see on eBay. Either way, CNC, or laser, it'll be the best toy you've ever owned in your life!


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## jezter6 (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks Keith. 

I'm definitely not in the $7k market for a hobby/craft machine as of yet. If my wife's Etsy store kicks off and starts to sell some pieces we'll make with the first machine, then the investment could pay off.

For now though, I've got to keep it simple. My wife wants to make some jewelry pieces (1/2" and up) without a whole lot of etching detail that would necessarily require a laser. While I know you could do AMAZING things with a laser, I personally think it's not affordable as a hobbyist machine for me at this point.

I do like the idea of the Shark. Everything I've read on it is pretty good. I'd like my first machine to be a little cheaper, though. The piranha is just a little small for what I'd like to eventually work into. 

Which is kinda why I'm leaning towards a more DIY kit like a Shakeopo or the new X-Carve. Without software, delivered for about $1500...it's almost too hard to beat. Paying double for a (presumably) more assembled Shark is...tough to swallow from a cost standpoint...though it does include some more expensive software.

Of course, being a n00b....I don't know what ANY of that means. Reading the X-Carve stuff and looking at some open source tools to do some basic cutting and getting going -- I've had to stop myself from entering my CC number into their site at least twice. It looks so easy and simple, yet I have no idea about "gCode" and programs. I have a lot to learn before I should plunk down $1500 or even $3000 on a machine.


With my current rates with wood cutting (2d cuts), I'd save ~$100/mo by doing it in house...even a $1500 unit would pay off in about a year. And with expected growth, could pay for itself in less. 

I appreciate your more or less unbiased opinion. It's so hard to browse the forums of these machines and with all the guys who are big fans -- they're not going to tell you any negatives of them. Which is why I came to a more general forum for ideas.

At this point, based on cost and ability - I think a CNC machine is more up my alley.

Just have to understand what all it's really going to take.

there needs to be a really good newbie guide for someone who has neither woodworking or CNC experience.

Guess I'll write one as I go through it.


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## geotek (Mar 4, 2012)

The biggest difference between the two is that the laser is a 2D machine, the router is 3D. If most of your work is 2D, then a laser is faster and easier to use. My 60W Chinese laser can cut 1/4" plywood at 10mm/sec. (if yours doesn't, get it aligned) It leaves a charged edge, the amount depends on the material. If you want to do Acrylic, the edge comes out polished. One big advantage of the laser is that there is no tool pressure, so clamping is not a problem.
I also have a CNC router. If you want to do V-carving, the router is the way to go. The router also handles thicker materials and materials like PVC and polycarbonate. Beware of flimsy routers. There are a lot of CNC routers being sold that are simply too flimsy. Routers produce a lot of tool pressure. your machine must be able to handle it without chattering.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Found one of my videos to provide an example of 6mm plexi being engraved and cut with a laser . It can cut 12mm , but not very well . 
I wasn't sure what the wood was for that you needed cut , but for model aitplanes I can't see where a router could work as there's tons of small right angles involved . 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1xQZ9IrLrrY


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day Alan, welcome to the forum.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

jezter6 said:


> Thanks Keith.
> 
> I'm definitely not in the $7k market for a hobby/craft machine as of yet. If my wife's Etsy store kicks off and starts to sell some pieces we'll make with the first machine, then the investment could pay off.
> 
> ...


OK, yes I am a Shark owner and Fan. A great machine for Hobby and small business, my shark paid for itself quickly and just bought me a new 8 CNCrouterparts Pro 4896. But the shark did many projects over the 24 x 24 inch cutting surface. ( look into tiling). as stated elsewhere.. the biggest difference is 3 D vs 2d. Post your Store Link so we can see what you are trying to Make so we can comment on how it would play in our Machines.


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## jezter6 (Mar 30, 2015)

I can't post links yet.

BIRDandMOOSEsupply is not our shop, but are the exact type of items we buy from our local laser guy. Basically wood hexagons, triangles, chevrons.

My concern may be the tightness of getting a sharp corner on things like that with a CNC machine using a round bit.


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

Take a look at automation technologies FLS has a lot of bad reviews and Boss seems to high of a price.


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## jezter6 (Mar 30, 2015)

Thanks fixtureman.

Based on what I've been reading over the last 3-4 days, I'm thinking I'm in for a newbie CNC router.

Cost is a factor on almost all laser machines. While it would reduce my raw materials cost (if I can't manage to replicate the cuts with a router, and I think I can) - I just can't think of enough I'd really want to do with a laser other than cutting shapes out of plywood and some basic engraving.

But for $1500 (right now I'm looking at an X-Carve type semi-DIY unit) I could get up and running and making some things that would pay off better in the long run.

I'd be down with a Shark...but I just don't know that I can really justify the cost out of the box. At least with a DIY unit I can play with some less advanced free/cheap software to get my learning curve up. But the shark comes bundled out of the gate with almost $1000 in software alone.

The proprietary nature of it seems troublesome when I'm thinking replacement parts. I like the the "open source" of the build it yourself stuff...minus the fact of having to actually put the thing together.


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## copythat (Oct 16, 2016)

Alan, did you eventually buy the x-Carve? I only ask because I am now considering purchasing one.


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