# Making Cabinet Doors advice needed



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I’m about to make two doors out of Red Oak and I just bought a Ogee Matched Rail &Stile Bit Set from MLCS and I’m a little worried about it. I’ve been having a lot of trouble lately with simple dado and rabbit cuts on my router table and I want this to work on the first try. 

I ‘m using ¾” x 3 ½” Red Oak and the instructions look pretty straight forward 
but so did all the other routing cuts I’m made lately. I was just wondering if there was anything I need to be aware of.
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/graphics2/TM04-11railstile0911.pdf

Also I’m not sure how to plan for the hinges and was wondering how to go about it. Do I rabbit around the door after it’s assembled and what kind of clearances should I have?


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Johnny; sorry, I'm no expert on router tables but I did note that you sound like you're going to go for the hole-in-one, so to speak, by doing the hardwood right off the bat. Why not get the feel for it by doing a few trials on scrap 3/4" softwood first? If you botch a cut on a piece of scrap 1x4 Spruce no big deal. 
At the very least you'll feel a lot more confident when you do the real thing.


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Johnny
Have you watch marc sommerfeld utube vedios on making raised panels no matter who's bits you are using the princliably is the same ,mark the good side and keep it down.
As we speak I am waiting on my glued upped panels to dry so I can finish assembling them

Are you making flat panels or raised?


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Dan, That’s a good I idea. I’ll probably do that today just to get an Idea of how to set the proper height.

Thanks John, I have not seen any videos yet, but that is also a good idea. I just watch a Marc Sommerfeld video on 'Cabinetmaking Made Easy', but I didn’t see anything on doors.


UPDATE:
Wow Marc Sommerfeld sure has a lot of videos and he wastes so much room in the title for his name that I have to open every one to see the what it is. This may take a while because so far I don't see anything close to what I'm doing. LOL.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Start off by practicing with scrap... not with your hardwood.

Start out with the stile bit. The stile bit has the profile with the face of the stock (what is visual) down towards the table. The bit height measurement for that (how I measure it) is the top of the table to the bottom inside edge of the groove. put your stock against it and make sure you are going to get a good face profile (the bottom third), but have enough meat on the top for the back profile. A Rail and Stile "profile" is a compound profile that can be divided into thirds: The face profile, the spline joint's profile and the back profile. You might have to adjust this to compensate...

Practice that. You should get comfortable with creating that profile. The goal is to get consistent pressure on your stock, both down to the table and back against your fence, while you are feeding your stock. 

When you get comfortable with that profile, on to the rails. The rail profile is a mirror image of the stile profile, so they fit together. It is also with the face of the rail towards the table. The bit height is set from the top of the table to the inside bottom edge of the groove. The ifrist time stting this up, you can take one of you later practice stile profiles and set it against the rail bit to set that. Cut a practice piece on scrap. Fir that piece into that stile and make sure the faces meet up. Adjust if necessary.

Rail profiles are cut into the end grain. I use a sacrificial block cut at 90 degrees (actually I use a Jig as a reusuable sacrificial block). I put the block against the fence, with the rail stock stock against the block and fence, so it is perpendicular to the fence. Some will tell you "perpendicular" doesn't matter... but I get better quality this way and easier to support while cutting. The reason for using a block is that it supports the endgrain while cutting so you don't get breakout at the end of the cut.

When you get comfortable with doing those two profiles using scrap, and while practicing, create a piece of scrap with both profiles with the bit heights set to where it needs to be. Use that as a bit height gauge to reset your R&S bits to and mark that gauge as "SAVE". That way you can reset those 2 bits back to those height by using it to put the stile bit into the cut stile profile and the rail bit into the cut rail profile of that gauge.

(EDIT-- That bit height measurement is also a balance with the Panel's profile, so balance and adjust that between all 3 profiles. Because you also want to make sure that the panel's profile has a clean edge face and back... and. depending on the panel style and/or profile, whether all 3 pieces have their faces in the same plane.)

Does that help? I hope I explained that in a way that doesn't make that sound more difficult than it actually is. It isn't difficult, as long as you understand what you are trying to do and how it works "together."

With Oak, you're going to leave about 1/16" to 1/8" expansion room all the way around between panel and the R&S. Red Oak expands and contacts a bit more than other woods. The panel floats inside the other pieces. You use packing in the grooves to let the panel expand and contract inside that door frame. Make sure you plan for that, otherwise it will pop those R&S joints apart. You can do it without packing, but then the door "rattles" in use. Not really a bad sound, really a somewhat familiar sound to old homes... I make that joint fit snug, but not "tight." Stain the panel before you assemble. That way during contraction phase of the panel, you don't get an exposed light area in that joint.


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Johnny
This video's will give a good idea how it is done 
Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Arched Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube

http://m.youtube.com/watch?autoplay...uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DD1Qg1ZRd5Xw%26autoplay%3D1


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

MAFoElffen said:


> Start off by practicing with scrap... not with your hardwood.
> 
> Start out with the stile bit. The stile bit has the profile with the face of the stock (what is visual) down towards the table. The bit height measurement for that (how I measure it) is the top of the table to the bottom inside edge of the groove. put your stock against it and make sure you are going to get a good face profile (the bottom third), but have enough meat on the top for the back profile. You might have to adjust this to compensate...
> 
> ...


Thank you Mike, that helps a lot. I had not opened up the package yet, and I had no idea the the face is down. I'm a little worried about tearing out the corners when making that end grain cut, but the practice run should work that out.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Semipro said:


> Johnny
> This video's will give a good idea how it is done
> Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Arched Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube
> 
> Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Arched Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 2 - YouTube


Thanks John, I like that one. I’m undecided if I’m going to do the raised panel although I did buy the raised panel bit. I bought the vertical type and I don’t think I can do the arched panel with it, but the rest of the video is a big help.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I just watched that Sommerfeld's Tools video and I realized that I may have a problem because he mentioned setting the router speed for the pattern bit. I don’t know how to do that and I’m going to have to do some research on that.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

JohnnyB60 said:


> I just watched that Sommerfeld's Tools video and I realized that I may have a problem because he mentioned setting the router speed for the pattern bit. I don’t know how to do that and I’m going to have to do some research on that.


Yes... Speed very important with large diameter bits. If your router is not a variable speed type, you could use a variable speed switch, which are inexpensive. That's what I use on my large router table, that I use for cabinet work.

(added more tips as edits to my last post)

BJ and I've got tips cutting panel profiles (different methods, but does the same things by those methods). Big thing that we both find on the panel profiles is that you want to control and step into your depth of cut, while keeping the bit height static. Jumping in with 1-1/4" or so depth of cut all at once is never a good idea...

Vertical Panel bits are usually thought of as being for a "horizontal" router table... Do you have one? And no, you are right in that "that" would be the wrong bit to try to do arched raised panels. (BJ has those bits, along with 2 horizontal tables, and would be the one to talk about those.)

Sidenote on arched panels... (I just finished saying this elsewhere) _"Usually learning skills and tooling involves a progression in logical steps."_ (I'm going to put this in my signature line...) Wouldn't attacking a project of arch panels without first doing shakers, then raised panels... be like starting out learning how to fight by fighting the champ in your first Bout? I'm no Doctor, but... just saying.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

MAFoElffen said:


> Yes... Speed very important with large diameter bits. If your router is not a variable speed type, you could use a variable speed switch, which are inexpensive. That's what I use on my large router table, that I use for cabinet work.
> 
> (added more tips as edits to my last post)
> 
> ...


Thanks mike,
I have PC 890 and I just looked in the manual and found it is an adjustable speed router. I just have never fooled with it before. I wonder if that was the cause of all my previous problems.

I do not have a vertical router table and I bought the vertical panel bit after watching a video on raised panels. I can’t find it at the moment, but the guy said that it’s the best way to do it because you’re not putting so much stress on the router.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I found the video where I saw the vertical bit and what convinced me to purchase the bit.

Making Raised Panel Cabinet Doors On A Router Table - YouTube


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

JohnnyB60 said:


> I found the video where I saw the vertical bit and what convinced me to purchase the bit.
> 
> Making Raised Panel Cabinet Doors On A Router Table - YouTube


Okay. That was what I was thinking when I said "_usually thought of_"... Being that the exception to that is using a tall fence like he did, on a standard router table. That puts the workpiece on edge (vertically), while you are trying to cut into the side of that end... sometimes consistently easier said than done. It can be done and is a technique. It's just feels a bit awkward to some people.

Go for it... Worth a try right?

Sidenote- On a horizontal table, the router is horizontal, with the work piece horizontal. So then the Workpiece lays onto the table and gets fed along the fence, over the bit...

(BJ just about has me talked into making a horizontal table for myself...)


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Bit Diameter	Maximum Speed (RPM)
Up to 1"	24,000
1 1/4" to 2"	18,000
2 1/4" to 2 1/2"	16,000
3" to 3 1/2"	12,000


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

vertical router bits can be used for arched raised panels but only some of them not all,,,it's tricky and one you don't want to start out with,it takes a female template,the real plus for vertical router bits, is they take less power I use 1 1/2hp router the norm..and you can get a back cutter for the panel..,,to fit just right in the slot.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop..._panel_router_bits2.html#rpundercutter_anchor

by the way you don't need a tall fence just one that keeps it running true and safe and keeps your fingers out of the path of the bit..
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2725-raised-panels-quick-easy.html

==
==


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Semipro said:


> Bit Diameter	Maximum Speed (RPM)
> Up to 1"	24,000
> 1 1/4" to 2"	18,000
> 2 1/4" to 2 1/2"	16,000
> 3" to 3 1/2"	12,000


Thanks John, I need a way to put all this info right on my router table top.:happy:


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> vertical router bits can be used for arched raised panels but only some of them not all,,,it's tricky and one you don't want to start out with,it takes a female template,the real plus for vertical router bits, is they take less power I use 1 1/2hp router the norm..and you can get a back cutter for the panel..,,to fit just right in the slot.
> 
> ...


Thanks BJ,
I bought the MLCS #8683 Ogee & Bead. I haven’t tried it yet and it is still in the package. The more I think about the arched raised panels, the more I like the Idea and if I would have seen the video on making them I would probably not have bought the vertical.

I didn’t start my doors as planed because I’m thinking of ordering the horizontal cutter. I also bought the 1x4 oak for the rails & stiles but after seeing all the doors in the videos, I might change my mind and do 2 ½” instead. I only went with the wide board because I could buy a sold piece for the panels. Now I’m thinking about buying a cutter to make my own wide panels.

Anyway I’m undecided and I hope I can come up with something after a good night’s sleep 

This is a photo of the cabinet that doors are for. What do you all think, should I go for the arched raised pane with the thinner rails & stiles? Oh the photo shows a subwoofer in the cabinet, but that is not going there. I just stuck it there to see what it looked like. And now that it’s dark and I can’t take another photo because my flash is terrible. I may update the photo when the sun comes up.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Yep, I definately go along with the other guys on practicing with scrap wood first. Or even buy some cheap wood, if you don't have any scraps. Unless you've got money to burn that is, and want to practice with some of the good (read expensive) wood. That's what scrap wood is for. 

I have a friend that just finished a very nice cabinet, with some really lovely doors. Problem is, he made the doors first, and they don't fit really well. :lol:


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks Theo, 
Making them fit is a concern for me too. I watched a video on cabinet doors were the guy said he always makes them a little over sized and custom cut them to size on the job site.

I have a lot of 2x4 stud scraps that I use for blocks and making little stuff. I’ll just rip them down to size. 1x scraps don’t last very long around here and I pick them up all the time from people’s trash.:laugh:

I saw a neighbor sawing up boards in his driveway one day so I went over to check it out. I was horrified to see him chopping up 10ft long con-heart redwood 2x4s and 2x6s into 3’ pieces. I was screaming at him to stop and he thought I was crazy. :stop:
He bought them to build a redwood gazebo on to his house, but got caught by the county for not having a permit so instead of purchasing one, he was cutting them down to fit inside his garbage can. That was 10 years ago and I still have a few pieces left over, but if I could have caught him earlier while they were still long they all would have been used up years ago :blink:


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Johnny; I kind of like the simple tech look of the doorless cabinet, but that's just me. 
The unit has a very Euro-Scandanavian/Modern/Contemporary style; you sure you want to throw a completely different look into the composition? I can see Shaker, or maybe Missionary, but I'm afraid I'm lost with the arched door theme(?)... (That's a lot of effort to go to if you hate it later!) Does that tie in with other pieces of your furniture?
I'll butt out now.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> Johnny; I kind of like the simple tech look of the doorless cabinet, but that's just me.
> The unit has a very Euro-Scandanavian/Modern/Contemporary style; you sure you want to throw a completely different look into the composition? I can see Shaker, or maybe Missionary, but I'm afraid I'm lost with the arched door theme(?)... (That's a lot of effort to go to if you hate it later!) Does that tie in with other pieces of your furniture?
> I'll butt out now.


Thank you very much for your opinion Dan. That's actually what I need, because I maybe getting too carried away. 
Originally I only wanted a plane door with a flat panel and the only reason I wanted the doors in the first place was to hide all the crap that usually collects dust.
Anyway I think you are right, I should not get carried away and just do a simple Shaker door. That would solve a lot problems.


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Definitely shaker style in my opinion


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Semipro said:


> Definitely shaker style in my opinion


Thanks John!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Shaker Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube

==


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Shaker Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube
> 
> ==


Thanks BJ


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

*What are the rubber spacers called?*

I noticed that everyone is using rubber spacers to center the panels. Sommerfeld's Tools videos claim they sell them and I'm assuming they are expensive. 
Is there something else from the regular hardware that I can use?


----------



## Alan Bienlein (Oct 17, 2009)

JohnnyB60 said:


> I noticed that everyone is using rubber spacers to center the panels. Sommerfeld's Tools videos claim they sell them and I'm assuming they are expensive.
> Is there something else from the regular hardware that I can use?


We used 1/4" backer rod cut into 1" pieces. You can get it at the local home center.


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

200ct. $5.50 from sommerfeld free shipping
1000ct $22.50


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Johnny; I kind of like the simple tech look of the doorless cabinet, but that's just me.
> The unit has a very Euro-Scandanavian/Modern/Contemporary style; you sure you want to throw a completely different look into the composition? I can see Shaker, or maybe Missionary, but I'm afraid I'm lost with the arched door theme(?)... (That's a lot of effort to go to if you hate it later!) Does that tie in with other pieces of your furniture?
> I'll butt out now.


I think Dan is spot on on the style/design. The Cabinet as it is now is a skeleton frame with a Euro flair. Since you don't have any face on the frame, it gives it a light, slimline look to it. 

I'm assuming you are thinking about doors for the lower middle two sections. I'm thinking with the frame, that you are going Euro style hinges with inset doors (meaning the doors fit inside of and the front of the doors meet the same plane as the front edge of the frame. 

Usually for that style, and as a electronics furnishing, you would go with something light in design, such as all glass doors with minimal hinges, a thin framed rail and stile door with glass (optional antiqued brass cutout "screen" behind that)... or a thin R&S'ed Shaker styled doors. Either with Euro hings. 

I'm sort of leaning to the first of those two. Very easy to do and they would look good with that. 2-1/8" rails and Stiles. Cut a rabbet in the back for the glass and screen. 2-3 rails. If 2 rails, then 1 pane of glass. If 3 rails, the middle rails bisects the door with 2 panes of glass and screen for each. Most big box stores will have an assortment of sculpture cut metal screens in different patterns. Rockler has it in their catalogs.

Adding Raised Panel inset doors is going to change the look and make that look heavier. IMHO- Arched raised panel inset doors are going to make that look a bit confused. If you do those, I think you might look into adding "more" to bring that the design back together...

But with saying all that, "I" would do oak R&S framed inset doors with glass and sculpture cut screen --or-- shaker doors. Both those would compliment that design.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Alan Bienlein said:


> We used 1/4" backer rod cut into 1" pieces. You can get it at the local home center.


Thanks Alen I just looked it up at Home depot on line and I guess they don't sell the 1/4". I'm going to look in store to se if just by chance they have, but I may have to buy the other 200ct. for $5.50 from sommerfeld.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

MAFoElffen said:


> I think Dan is spot on on the style/design. The Cabinet as it is now is a skeleton frame with a Euro flair. Since you don't have any face on the frame, it gives it a light, slimline look to it.
> 
> I'm assuming you are thinking about doors for the lower middle two sections. I'm thinking with the frame, that you are going Euro style hinges with inset doors (meaning the doors fit inside of and the front of the doors meet the same plane as the front edge of the frame.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, I’m glad you brought up hinges because I haven’t figured that out yet and yes the doors will be on the bottom.

It’s funny that you brought up glass because that was my original plan. I then realized that I had a big powered subwoofer that used to be under an end table beside the couch and its location was never the best. I thought maybe I could put in the cabinet and those screen would have been perfect. But after some researching, I learned it would be better on a side wall instead on right in the middle. 










I wanted a slide out shelf for all the remotes or whatever and decided to put one each side, only I needed a muffin fan on back to cool the Home Theater equipment on the right side so I drilled a 3 ½” hole in the back which set the shelf height and kind of cancels out the subwoofer










This is the fan from back if you can see it with all the wires:laugh:


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

*Hinges*

Beings you do not have a face frame, Save time and effort with easy-to-install Non-Mortise Hinges. Just my opinion


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Semipro said:


> Beings you do not have a face frame, Save time and effort with easy-to-install Non-Mortise Hinges. Just my opinion


Thanks John, I'm going to Home Depot on Monday and look through their hinges. 
I also need some sort of latch to keep the fan from blowing the door open. I'll have to experiment with that because I don't know if Magnetic latches will hold.


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Here is a latch I like fits in top of door


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Curious... What is the stand in the back / centered across the bottom used for?


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

JohnnyB60 said:


> I noticed that everyone is using rubber spacers to center the panels. Sommerfeld's Tools videos claim they sell them and I'm assuming they are expensive.
> Is there something else from the regular hardware that I can use?


Just a note on that-

That 1/4 backer rod is a great idea... Space balls and space tape is not that expensive. All space tape is, is 1/8" thick, 1/4" wide, self adhesive backed weather stripping.

*** Or you can do that old-school. Measurements for expansion for R&S with raised panels is 1/8" per foot across the grain (between the stiles) and 1/64" to 1/16" with the grain (between the rails). Now a days we do 1/8" "even" all the way around, (adding 1/4" to width and to height) because it's easier to keep that straight in our heads. 18th century, 15 degree raised panels became popular. That was a bit before "space balls." Common practice was to glue just the centers of the top and bottoms to the rails along with securing them in with pre-drilled, two inserted brass pins, one each located between the center of the top and bottom of the panel and the center of the rails.

Like I said, most expansion happens across the grain. The expansion along the direction of the grain is negligible and the stiles are going to expand/contract at that same rate. If secured in the center, it keeps the panel secure and allows the panel to expand/contract at will, from that point to each side, keeping the panel centered. With modern adhesives, you can glue a cross-grain joint of around 3-4 inches without problems. (2"-3" would be safer) Wood glues will "stretch" with the wood a little and still keep it's bond. Any more than that though... and there's a risk.


----------



## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

The only advise I would offer is to use feather boards to hold things down, and use a miter gauge when cutting the short ends of the rails to keep them perfectly square to to bit.


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Johnny if you are blowing air into the cabinet you have to have air escaping or you will not be cooling anything at all. You need to mount the fan low and let the hot air escape up higher. 2 or 3 smaller holes up toward the top will allow for much better cooling.

MLCS has a excellent door calculator on their website, but you need Microsoft Excel to run it. You just put in your door size and it gives you the cut lengths and panel size. The Excel version of this calculator used to be free, now they are selling a CD with a program that will not need Excel at $24.95 or you can download it for $19. It is a real handy and accurate program. It also has a board foot calculator, and I think some other tools.

MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 1

If anyone needs the Excel version of this program, just PM me and I will see if I can find the install for it. It was or is a free program.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

No need for a calculator just use the magic number of 4"..

===



Willway said:


> Johnny if you are blowing air into the cabinet you have to have air escaping or you will not be cooling anything at all. You need to mount the fan low and let the hot air escape up higher. 2 or 3 smaller holes up toward the top will allow for much better cooling.
> 
> MLCS has a excellent door calculator on their website, but you need Microsoft Excel to run it. You just put in your door size and it gives you the cut lengths and panel size. The Excel version of this calculator used to be free, now they are selling a CD with a program that will not need Excel at $24.95 or you can download it for $19. It is a real handy and accurate program. It also has a board foot calculator, and I think some other tools.
> 
> ...


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> No need for a calculator just use the magic number of 4"..
> 
> ===


BJ the number 4 works great if you are using 2-7/16 stock with MLCS or Mark's bits, but if you are using standard 1x3 boards (2-1/2"), like a number of us part-timers do, then the calculator comes in handy. It seems to me you would end up with a 1/8" overall error both ways by using the number 4. Am I right on this, or am I missing something? I can be a little thick at times.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dick

Yes and no,,the magic number will change if you use 2 1/2" stock or 1 1/2" wide stock,all the cutters cut 7/16" deep (from 3/8" to 1/2") but the 7/16" is the norm Marc's new bits are all set at to cut 1/2" deep to make it a easy to use the magic number 4,the 7/16" cut will be gone on all the parts at glue up time on the door frame just like in the below,,,,, link////....

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/30226-panel-doors-1-4-router.html

===


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

OH WOW Guys, I am so sorry. I didn't know there was any more replies until I noticed I had something in my spam. :bad:

Ok so were do I begin?


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

MAFoElffen said:


> Curious... What is the stand in the back / centered across the bottom used for?


Its to hold a removable post for my TV. right now I have the TV on a shelf above the cabinet, but its a pain to pull it out with the wires connected to the TV.

I just received the wall mount to hang the TV and I will be building the post hopefully this weekend if i get the time.

Anyway this is my plan for the post:


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

mgmine said:


> The only advise I would offer is to use feather boards to hold things down, and use a miter gauge when cutting the short ends of the rails to keep them perfectly square to to bit.


Thanks Art


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Willway said:


> Johnny if you are blowing air into the cabinet you have to have air escaping or you will not be cooling anything at all. You need to mount the fan low and let the hot air escape up higher. 2 or 3 smaller holes up toward the top will allow for much better cooling..


Hi Dick , I don’t know if you saw the slots on the photo of the fan above, but I have 3 slots in the plywood above directly under the vent holes in the amplifier. Each slot is 12” long by ¾” wide and there is a shelf that separates the lower cabinet form the area below the top shelf.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Willway said:


> BJ the number 4 works great if you are using 2-7/16 stock with MLCS or Mark's bits, but if you are using standard 1x3 boards (2-1/2"), like a number of us part-timers do, then the calculator comes in handy. It seems to me you would end up with a 1/8" overall error both ways by using the number 4. Am I right on this, or am I missing something? I can be a little thick at times.


I have no idea of what you guys are talking about :fie:


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*Somerfeld Video*



JohnnyB60 said:


> I have no idea of what you guys are talking about :fie:


Johnny, I know this video has been suggested before, but it is the best video out there on doors. He uses 2-7/16 stock and the number 4 to size the doors. I would suggest you watch it. He has some very good educational videos, even for an old goat like me. And his tool sets can't be beaten anywhere. His brother Kreg is the founder of Kreg Tools.

Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Shaker Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Willway said:


> Johnny, I know this video has been suggested before, but it is the best video out there on doors. He uses 2-7/16 stock and the number 4 to size the doors. I would suggest you watch it. He has some very good educational videos, even for an old goat like me. And his tool sets can't be beaten anywhere. His brother Kreg is the founder of Kreg Tools.
> 
> Sommerfeld's Tools for Wood - Shaker Raised Panels Made Easy with Marc Sommerfeld - Part 1 - YouTube


thanks Dick, I have seen it before, but I have to say I did pick up a few more tips this time around.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Well I stopped at Lowe's to pick up some hinges before cutting my door pieces so I can get an accurate measurement and I couldn’t find those other hinges. 
They had quite a few of those European hinges, but I just don’t understand how they work and there were too much to choose from, so I bought the one in the photo below. 
I’m not crazy about the color, but for $2 a pair, I can live with it. Besides it is spring loaded to keep the door shut.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I just got back from Lowe's with some more oak. I’m just having so much trouble making up my mind on whether to use 3 ½” or 2 ½” frame. There’s more gluing surface on the 3 ½” to hold it together, but I’m just not so sure of the look. 

I also have a ¼” x 16” x 96” piece of oak plywood that I’ve decided to use for the panel. I was at a friend’s house who had a new very fancy entertainment center with turned Spiro columns for the corners, glass doors on the bottom and drawers on top. It has a lot of fancy woodwork with a beautiful finish that caught my eye, but it looks a little mixed up and gothic over all. I think I like the shaker look much better although I’m not sure if red oak is used in shaker. I would much rather have the finish on my friend cabinet, but in shaker.

So I don’t have to work tomorrow and I’m going to start cutting the rails & stiles first thing in the morning. The one thing I wanted to look for was the spacers and I completely forgot. 

I just remembered that I have a roll of 1/8” rubber screen spline and I was wondering if I could use that instead of making another trip to Lowe's without even knowing if they have anything?


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't see why not. I've seen Norm Abrams say that he just glues the middle 1 inch of panels at top and bottom to prevent rattling. Wood moves very little along its length.


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I don't see why not. I've seen Norm Abrams say that he just glues the middle 1 inch of panels at top and bottom to prevent rattling. Wood moves very little along its length.


Really well that’s interesting and I like the idea of the panel helping to hold things together.
I refinished my kitchen cabinets without knowing about the expansion and I got plenty of Varathane in the panels. it’s pretty much glued all the way around and I haven’t had any problems after 6 years.

Oh I guess I should knock on wood before I do. LOL


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I was just watching the Sommerfeld video again for the 3rd time and I just found out why my kitchen cabinet doors didn’t have any problems. 
He said that plywood does not expand so I’m not going to worry about spacers and just glue the plywood panel in. He says in the video that he usually leaves a little space like 1/16” so I’ll do the same.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Make one trip and pickup a roll of 1/4" x 1/4" x 25ft-50ft long. weather strip and cut it into 1" long parts,I use the sommerfeld strips but when I run short I buy the weather strip roll.(you don't get a 2nd.chance to get this part right from the get go)


===


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

*Finally!*

I have all the pieces cut and put together but not glued yet. I just wanted to see what it looked like since this is my first door like this. :dance3:
It was full of ups and downs, but now that I see what has to be done, I’m looking forward to the next ones. :dirol:


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Looks good glue it up, It is obvious you know how to Make doors You can always make another one if you don't like it later on


----------



## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

Semipro said:


> Looks good glue it up, It is obvious you know how to Make doors You can always make another one if you don't like it later on


Thanks John, 
It took longer to figure out how to use the Rail & Stile router bit set than actually making the door. I took lots of notes and photos so I will not have so much trouble the next time. 
I have another project that I’ve been thinking about for a long time, but there are lots of doors so I’ve been putting it off.


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Dick
> 
> Yes and no,,the magic number will change if you use 2 1/2" stock or 1 1/2" wide stock,all the cutters cut 7/16" deep (from 3/8" to 1/2") but the 7/16" is the norm Marc's new bits are all set at to cut 1/2" deep to make it a easy to use the magic number 4,the 7/16" cut will be gone on all the parts at glue up time on the door frame just like in the below,,,,, link////....
> 
> ...


I will be checking out Marc's bits, thanks for that info, that must be one of the reasons why he is making the changes in his R&S bit designs. And thanks for a great article on using what you have or can afford, like the Colt.* I agree whole wholeheartedly with you on our US trade practices!* I have made doors with my old antique Craftsman 1-1/2 HP for years without any problems.


----------

