# Selecting the best CNC router



## Chow6693 (Mar 29, 2013)

Hi all,

I am new to the world of production routing and need some advice. We are a startup who manufacturers utility products mostly out of 3/4" Oak plywood where aesthetics are not our primary concern (we do try at all times to avoid edge splintering). Our main focus is building durable products at a fast production rate, therefore we are looking into hi-speed CNC routing as an option. This will allow us to combine multiple operations into one and increase throughput.

My question is this...While looking for routers, there are many different factors to consider but my most important concern is feed rate. Feed rate = throughput = revenue. What should I expect to be able to achieve as a maximum feed rate for cutting through 3/4" Oak plywood and what type of machine (rpm, HP,...etc.) should I be looking for to accomplish this?

Thanks in advance for all advice received,

Casey


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Casey and welcome

Depending on the complexity of production I'd have to ask if you have also considered the use of a powered revolving table shaper or something along the lines of a Bacci shaper (used for furniture parts)? On simpler products those are cheaper to buy as well as being faster than any CNC router. It all depends on the product. CNCs are good at flexible manufacturing but they score less well on high volume production of simple components

Regards

Phil


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## Chow6693 (Mar 29, 2013)

*Cabinet typ stuf*



Phil P said:


> Hi Casey and welcome
> 
> Depending on the complexity of production I'd have to ask if you have also considered the use of a powered revolving table shaper or something along the lines of a Bacci shaper (used for furniture parts)? On simpler products those are cheaper to buy as well as being faster than any CNC router. It all depends on the product. CNCs are good at flexible manufacturing but they score less well on high volume production of simple components
> 
> ...


Phil,

Thanks for getting back with me so quickly. Basically we are producing rectangular shape items such as cabinet panels, shelve assemblies, tote assemblies and misc types of storage devices. My ultimate goal here is to be able take a full sized sheet of plywood and cut the profile, drill and countersink fastener holes, insert holes, counterbores and corner beveling if needed. Everything that can be done from one side all at one time. If i can combine all of this into a single operation and eliminate much of the saw, drill press and other operations, it would be a huge time saver all the way around.

I understand that in order to make this as efficient as possible, I will need to purchase a CNC router that has tool change capabilities but as I mentions in my original post, cut speed is very important to me. I have not looked into anything like a table shaper but I certainly will now that you mention it. I do not know anything about them but that is why I am here...to learn.

Thanks,

Casey


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Casey.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Chow6693 said:


> Phil,
> 
> Thanks for getting back with me so quickly. Basically we are producing rectangular shape items such as cabinet panels, shelve assemblies, tote assemblies and misc types of storage devices. My ultimate goal here is to be able take a full sized sheet of plywood and cut the profile, drill and countersink fastener holes, insert holes, counterbores and corner beveling if needed. Everything that can be done from one side all at one time. If i can combine all of this into a single operation and eliminate much of the saw, drill press and other operations, it would be a huge time saver all the way around.
> 
> ...


Hi Casey

As I say, it's volume dependent. If your product range is static and your volume large a shaper and an off-line multiple borer might be the way to go (cheaper than a CNC, too). If you have a diverse product range then a CNC might be better.

From your second post it looks likely that you are considering a process called "NBM", or nest-based manufacturing, where you optimise multiple product components on a single sheet and do all the routing and boring in one process. NBM works well, but it doesn't really lend itself to fully-profiled edges, such as bull-noses. For that sort of production you'd need to look at going onto a pod-rail bed as opposed to a flat bed machine and doing the sheet breaking-down using a wall saw or panel saw before the blanks are loaded onto the CNC. On the drilling side, more commercial machines generally come with one or more (often electro-pneumatic) drill heads, and some machines, such as the Italian point-to-point CNC routers liek the Biesse, Busselato, SCM, Bulleri, etc have a multi-drill "crown" with up to 30 independently addressable drills. For cutting speed if at all possible you want to avoid doing any tool changes. Tool changes are slow, although if the tool carousel is carried on the routing gantry they are a lot quicker than they would be on machines with a static tooling array fixed to the frame of the machine. Again, I don't know the volumes/complexity you are doing, but some commercial machines offer multiple heads where by having 2 or 2 heads side by side better speed of throughput can be had providing you can "box clever" with your tooling (Used to run a 3-head Biesse Rover like that which was much faster than tool changer machines)

TBH you might also be as well taking this to the CNC Forum over at WoodWeb where there is a goodly amount of commercial expertise as well you might find that someone has already had a similar discussion in their Knowledge Base

Regards

Phil


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## Chow6693 (Mar 29, 2013)

*NBM is correct*

Thanks Phil,

You offer some great advice, most of which just proves I have a lot of homework to do before committing to a specific direction. One thing I can tell you if this helps, all of my designs are such that I am not doing and special edge cutting like bull-nosing so that I am not worried about. All of my edges will be straight cut. As I mentioned in my original post, these products are not meant to be fancy or attractive but rather durable, functional and affordable (with that being said, that actually look really good made out of the Oak plywood). So far I have about 15 different product designs (and growing daily) with a total of about 50 detail parts that I think would be perfect candidates for CNC routing or some other process as you have mentioned above. As far as volume, that is yet to be determined as we are a startup and still working out of a garage shop but our products are getting great reviews through our marketing research so we are keeping our fingers crossed.

As far as my production type is concerned, your absolutely correct about using NBM but since this will be a production shop, I will be mass producing each of the components for use later within the production cycle. For example, If I am producing 20 cabinets, I would be manufacturing (cutting and drilling) all 20 of each component in independent work order production run (all out of one or more sheets of material as needed). These components would then move down the assembly line to await their next operation and once completed, meet up with the other components for final assembly.

I have attached a cross-section rendering of one of the cabinets that I just completed the design on so you can get an idea of the simplicity of the design

I will definitely take a look at the other site you recommended as well. I clearly have a lot to learn which is why I will be in the market for a top notch wood shop manager once I can afford to bring someone on in that capacity.

I really appreciate your advice and hopefully someday when I get a little experience under my belt, maybe I can return the favor.

Thanks again for the help,

Casey


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## Chow6693 (Mar 29, 2013)

*Looking forward to learning*



jw2170 said:


> Welcome to the forum, Casey.


Thank you very much James


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Chow6693 said:


> I have attached a cross-section rendering of one of the cabinets that I just completed the design on so you can get an idea of the simplicity of the design


Hi Casey

You may well be able to cut your manufacturing, assembly and shipping costs by changing the design slightly. By going to a surface mount KD fitting (see Hafele for their Rafix KD connectors as an example) instead of using cleats you'll reduce the material cost, the need for cleats and the labour involved. You'll also geta product which can be shipped flat-pack - another cost saving. The back could possibly be slid into grooves from the bottom and secured by several screws into the back edge of the cabinet bottom. This sort of approach lends itself to NBM processes.

Just a couple of thoughts

Regards

Phil


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## Chow6693 (Mar 29, 2013)

Phil P said:


> Hi Casey
> 
> You may well be able to cut your manufacturing, assembly and shipping costs by changing the design slightly. By going to a surface mount KD fitting (see Hafele for their Rafix KD connectors as an example) instead of using cleats you'll reduce the material cost, the need for cleats and the labour involved.
> 
> ...


Phil,

I considered using that type of hardware but I reflected on all of the systems that I have purchased as a consumer and it seems like every time I would put one together, one of them would break, or I could not get it to connect properly. Plus they never seem to stand the test of time...the product just does not seem to be very sturdy. Maybe the systems I have been buying are using cheap varieties of these and maybe Hafele produces a better product that I can research. I will find out who my local distributor is and give them a test.

It is a little difficult to see the complete intent of my design from what I sent but it does actually ship flat unassembled with minimum assembly required upon delivery and absolutely no drilling. I have probably gone over board on the number of fasteners used especially since the panels that are assembled with the cleats during manufacturing will all be put together with wood glue but one of the things that you can't see is how they mount...these are actually designed to mount on a wall so all of the weight is being transferred through the back instead of going down through the floor. This completely changes the dynamics of the design requirements.

Thanks,

Casey


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