# Why an insert plate



## Jiroma (Feb 2, 2010)

Hi all, I've seen a few router tables with various makes of insert plate and I've also seen tables that have a simple bit sizes hole in the top of the table. If possible could I get a few views for and against and why a plate at all. I have a home made table with an insert plate but cant really see the benefit of it as against a plain old hole in the table top.

Jiroma


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

i think one "for" is that you can have different insert plates with different sized holes for a closer clearance when using small bits

another "for" would be that you can take the plate off and get to the top of the router more easily, for things like changing bits

the 2nd one is more the reason why i have an insert plate. wthout a plate, i can't lift the router up enough to be able to change the bit from above the table. my "plate" is just a piece of 4 1/2" square 3/4" thick plywood. i currently have only one, but i can make others with different sized holes as need be


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## Jiroma (Feb 2, 2010)

Are you saying that your top is made of 3/4 inch ply with a square cut out of the top with a hole in it for your bit to pass through. This sounds like a perfectly simple set up that obviously works for you so why do people go for Freud and trend and all the other fancy insert plates. I'm nor condemning any of those I'm just curious as to why woodworkets bother with them.

Jiroma


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Jiroma said:


> Are you saying that your top is made of 3/4 inch ply with a square cut out of the top with a hole in it for your bit to pass through. This sounds like a perfectly simple set up that obviously works for you so why do people go for Freud and trend and all the other fancy insert plates. I'm nor condemning any of those I'm just curious as to why woodworkets bother with them.
> 
> Jiroma


Hi - Well, the first difference that occurs to me is a 1/2" loss of cut depth by bolting directly to a 3/4" table vs. a 1/4" plate.:dirol:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I will 2nd.Chris's post and John's post BUT add a note,,,the big thing for me, it gives me a way to use the brass guides ( bushings) on the router table, once you do that it will open a new world..but without the plate you can't use your router table to the fullest ...

To me it's like building a car and not putting a transmission in line but by doing so it's a big plus.

===


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

yes, that is what i am saying. a simple square cut in the top for a drop in piece of wood with a hole in it. 

with my setup, i could use also 1/2" ply for the insert to get 1/4" more bit depth, or i could route a rabbet around the edge and shape a piece of lexan or something for it to get even more range if necessary.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

An insert plate gets rid of all kinds of Pain-in-the-arse situations.
Pop it out to change bits if you want.
More height available for the bits.
Removable hole inserts for safety.
And on, and on, and on.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

What are you using as a router, a Dremel Tool? 1/2 or even 3/4 inch ply isn't going to cut it as a router table top with a full sized router attached. I suppose you could attach supports under the table to possibly prevent sag, but I still wouldn't trust it to stay level from one day to the next. Using 2 sheets of 3/4 inch MDF glued together topped with Melamine is the standard. You could build a nice table top for around $50.00 which is probably $150.00 less than what you propose as a router table top. The benefits of a thick table top and a phenolic insert plate far outweigh using a 1/2 or 3/4 inch ply top fitted with a ply insert and will cost less over the same time span. 

Spend a few bucks for an insert plate too. They can be had for less than $25.00 and along with that small investment you get peace of mind that your router will stay level if installed properly. 

I absolutely do not take short cuts with my routers or accessories. As an example I just bought two base plates, one round and one offset, for a DeWalt trim router that cost $80.00 the pair. I have a $100.00 1/4 inch aluminum insert plate in my table that will out last me plus stay level, so it was a wise investment in that respect. The point I am trying to make is, it only takes a few more cents to go first class thereby preventing the hassle of re-doing something a few days or weeks down the road.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mounting plates were developed so you could pop your router out of the table to make quick and easy set ups and bit changes. This is still the fastest way to handle these things. Removeable inserts allow the use of bits from small to large with a safe amount of clearance and better cuts. Add the ability to use guide bushings and brass reducer bushings and it is a win/win situation. Make sense Jim?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, properly supported 3/4" Baltic birch plywood that is laminated on both sides with Formica works great with even the largest routers. This is how the Router Workshop tables are built. The only disadvantage with aluminum mounting plates is if they get scratched they oxidize and can stain your wood. A coat of Johnsons paste wax helps prevent this and lets your material slide even easier.


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## bcfunburst (Jan 14, 2012)

*Why an Insert Plate?*

I am quite confident I have saved myself a multitude of hassels by deciding on my Varitas Router Table System. (available @ Lee Valley Tools) The spacious Steel Plate top is perfect size for anything I have tried. The fence and sled are adjustable to the micro mm...... NO SAG with even the heaviest router mounted; easy access to change router bits above the table and I can move the table anywhere in my shop so easily.
There is NEVER any regrets when you go for top quality. I try to keep this as simple as possible since there are so many problems just looking for me!!!


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## Jiroma (Feb 2, 2010)

Absolutely, though Ken Bee notes that a full sized router "attached" would need supports beneath to prevent sag. This suggests to me that there are two trains of thought. An independant router perhaps built into a lift system and the second type which is attched to your plate and 'hangs' beneath it. If the router was built into a lift then the top could be made of a much thinner material , strong enough that there would be no deflection when passing the work across the bit. I'm coming to the conclusion that a combination of both would be best. The plate should be able to be removed easily but the router, in my humble opinion, would be better in a carriage/lift underneath the top independant of the insert plate.

Jiroma


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm a simple man. 

I have a lift I made myself and I installed it on a piece of 38x23 (3/4" thick) melamine covered shelving I scavanged from an old IKEA armoire. There is a 4 1/2" square cutout for inserting different home made inserts made out of whatever makes sense for the job at hand. Since I don't have a table built for it yet, I just have it suspended between my craftsman rolling tool chests with a shopvac for dust collection.

It seems to me that there is no sag at all, and I can do everything I need to do with it. If it sags, when I build a table for it, I can support it more underneath with a joist or 2.

Maybe I'm a little TOO simple minded ... or too naive to know what I am missing ...


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## woodworker352 (Mar 19, 2012)

I think the main advantage of a router insert plate is the quick and easy access to the router. Pop the insert out to change the bit or adjust the height of the bit. If you plate gives you the same easy access then use it. 

Charles


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Ken Bee said:


> What are you using as a router, a Dremel Tool? 1/2 or even 3/4 inch ply isn't going to cut it as a router table top with a full sized router attached. I suppose you could attach supports under the table to possibly prevent sag, but I still wouldn't trust it to stay level from one day to the next. Using 2 sheets of 3/4 inch MDF glued together topped with Melamine is the standard. You could build a nice table top for around $50.00 which is probably $150.00 less than what you propose as a router table top. The benefits of a thick table top and a phenolic insert plate far outweigh using a 1/2 or 3/4 inch ply top fitted with a ply insert and will cost less over the same time span.


My present, and former, router table tops all 1/2" plywood. No sag in any of them. Of course the tables are all homemade, and crisscrossed under with 2/4 chunks for support. Insert is 1/2" plywood too. Never any sag in it either. Probably cost me around $5 total, that's five dollars, that's for my entire table. 

Right now I have seven routers, so made seven inserts. Same size hole, but figure if I need different bits I don't need to spend time replacing one in the router being used, just pop the insert with router out, put a different insert and router in, taking all of about 30 seconds or so. Makes it 'much' easier and faster changing router bits by taking an insert out too. I would not have/make a rounter table now without inserts, just makes life so much easier. 

By the way, I use just one size hole because I don't find any difference in the end reusult changing hole size. I opened up my router once, and not even a speck of sawdust in it, the cooling fan either blows it out, or doesn't allow it in at all. So, I used same size holes for my inserts.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

JOAT said:


> By the way, I use just one size hole because I don't find any difference in the end reusult changing hole size. I opened up my router once, and not even a speck of sawdust in it, the cooling fan either blows it out, or doesn't allow it in at all. So, I used same size holes for my inserts.


what size hole do you use?


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Jiroma said:


> Absolutely, though Ken Bee notes that a full sized router "attached" would need supports beneath to prevent sag. This suggests to me that there are two trains of thought. An independant router perhaps built into a lift system and the second type which is attched to your plate and 'hangs' beneath it. If the router was built into a lift then the top could be made of a much thinner material , strong enough that there would be no deflection when passing the work across the bit. I'm coming to the conclusion that a combination of both would be best. The plate should be able to be removed easily but the router, in my humble opinion, would be better in a carriage/lift underneath the top independant of the insert plate.
> 
> Jiroma


what you describe is the setup i have.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Occasionally I would take the router out of the table with attached plate and flip it over for hand held use. Very stable it was.


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## Jiroma (Feb 2, 2010)

Now what would be really useful would be photos of your setup. Im beginning to think the best setup is a self contained router lift that can be taken out from under your table AND a removable plate to give easy access from above. Something I have found useful is a box spanner that can slip down over the collet which allows easy removal of bits.
Please post photos because I want to make a new table and I want to do it only once so I really want to get the best setup at the lowest cost. 
Jiroma


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

click this:

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/17212-wanted-pictures-your-router-table.html

i will add mine (which is not complete yet) as well ... it is not nearly as over the top as most of them, but it works for me


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Mike said:


> Ken, properly supported 3/4" Baltic birch plywood that is laminated on both sides with Formica works great with even the largest routers. This is how the Router Workshop tables are built. The only disadvantage with aluminum mounting plates is if they get scratched they oxidize and can stain your wood. A coat of Johnsons paste wax helps prevent this and lets your material slide even easier.


Hi Mike,

One step ahead of you in the care and maintenance of Aluminum. If you read my past work history you would know I am no stranger to aluminum. Short of anodizing it is next to impossible to prevent oxidation to a certain degree. Johnson's works OK, but a good coat of Carnauba Auto wax is much better choice. (I also use the Carnauba wax as a final finish on most of my wood projects) Applying a heavy coat of wax and using a lamb's wool buffing pad with very light pressure on a weekly basis is probably the best way to help prevent oxidation and scratches. When I apply the wax I don't do just my insert plate either, my full table top gets the wax treatment. That is the only thing I do in my shop on Sunday's, wax my router table, perform maintenance and clean all my tools. My tools are like my Mercedes, I didn't spend all that money for them to not have regular cleaning and maintenance performed, whether they need it or not. 

Like the old saying goes, "You can't always believe everything you read". I have never seen anywhere in any publication or in this forum where a 3/4 inch thick router table is acceptable. The only thing I have seen is the "optimum" thickness should be at least 1-3/4 thick laminated on both sides using a Phenolic, 3/8 Acrylic or Aluminum insert plate to support the router weight over time. Router Workshop notwithstanding I would still prefer the table to be at least 1-3/4 inch thick if made of anything other than metal. Of course "Properly Supported" is the catch phrase here. I did suggest in a round about way in my post that using supports would probably work although not as effective as a thicker table.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, most automotive waxes have silicone in them. This makes things slide nicely but can screw up the finish on your wood.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> what size hole do you use?


I'm pretty sure it is 2", possibly 1 1/2".


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Ken Bee said:


> Like the old saying goes, "You can't always believe everything you read". I have never seen anywhere in any publication or in this forum where a 3/4 inch thick router table is acceptable. The only thing I have seen is the "optimum" thickness should be at least 1-3/4 thick laminated on both sides using a Phenolic, 3/8 Acrylic or Aluminum insert plate to support the router weight over time. Router Workshop notwithstanding I would still prefer the table to be at least 1-3/4 inch thick if made of anything other than metal. Of course "Properly Supported" is the catch phrase here. I did suggest in a round about way in my post that using supports would probably work although not as effective as a thicker table.


I guess I wasn't paying attention when I got to the 'optimum thickness' part, either that or was napping. As I said in my previous post that my router table top is 1/2" plywood. Didn't mention that it's 3-4 years old now, still no sag, and the one before that was probably going on 6-7 years, also 1/2" plywood, also no sag. My insert plates are 1/2" plywood too, no sag. I don't know if you could consider my top 'properly supported' or not, but I got rid of a bunch of small 2X4 scraps that had been taking up space, they support my top nicely, glued so they are spaced 2-3", or less, apart - the pieces under the insert plate come right up to the router, in a square, so no sag there. I don't guess many people besides me would call it 'pretty', but seeing as how it does exactly what I want it for, it definitely is pretty to me. Oh yes, it is also bolted to a shelf, 2d from the top, so I can sit and use it. 

If it wasn't supported under by the 2X4 chunks, then yes, it would probably sag/warp after awhile. So, if it's not suitably supported, then I would say a top definitely needs to be thicker - personally I'd probably use 3 layers of 1/2" plywood glued together.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Mike said:


> Ken, most automotive waxes have silicone in them. This makes things slide nicely but can screw up the finish on your wood.


Mike...I don't often route finished wood, the finish comes later.  Not that the car wax has ever caused a problem I do want to try pure Carnauba wax and not only for my router table. Just for kicks I just checked my Meguiar's wax and it is silicone free.

As a side note my Woodpeckers aluminum plate is anodized. Actually anodizing aluminum is the process of oxidizing aluminum then using either chemical or electrical methods to harden the oxidation. The chemical method is fairly simple and can be done with products found in most homes. The electrical method is used mostly on aluminum wire.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Ken Bee said:


> Mike...I don't often route finished wood, the finish comes later.  Not that the car wax has ever caused a problem I do want to try pure Carnauba wax and not only for my router table. Just for kicks I just checked my Meguiar's wax and it is silicone free.
> 
> As a side note my Woodpeckers aluminum plate is anodized. Actually anodizing aluminum is the process of oxidizing aluminum then using either chemical or electrical methods to harden the oxidation. The chemical method is fairly simple and can be done with products found in most homes. The electrical method is used mostly on aluminum wire.



I think Mike was cautioning about silicone affecting the quaility of a yet to be applied finish.


Curious about that anodizing via chemicals common around the house. Could one repair a scratched plate for instance using your elixir for anodizing, if you can, could you explain?


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

TomE said:


> Curious about that anodizing via chemicals common around the house. Could one repair a scratched plate for instance using your elixir for anodizing, if you can, could you explain?


i am also curious ...


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

TomE said:


> I think Mike was cautioning about silicone affecting the quaility of a yet to be applied finish.


Yeah I know. I was just messing with Mike. That was the reason for the smiley.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> i am also curious ...



Chris and Tom....Let me go through my long forgotten papers in the next few days and will get back to you ASAP.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

cool, thanks


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