# Vertical Raised Panel Question



## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

*Vertical Raised Panel Question*

So I'm about to try out my newest set of bits. I bought a rail/stile bit set and a vertical panel bit from Rockler. I only have a 1 3/4HP Porter Cable router and didn't think it could handle a horizontal bit.

I know a lot of the horizontal bits have a back-cutter. I figure I can use a rabbeting bit for the same effect on the back of the panel to keep it flush with the front of the door frame, but what if I just plane the panels down an extra 1/8" (or whatever the depth is needed to keep them flush). I figure I can control the width of the edge of the panel by how many passes I make with the vertical bit. I will plane them first to be sure they don't tip over in the planer.

Any experience with this method? I just thought it would be quicker to run each panel through the planer a couple of extra times instead of rabbeting all 4 sides of each panel.

EDIT: while we're at it, what speed should I run the bit at? It's still pretty big.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=5025&TabSelect=Details

Door Set: 
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=5428&TabSelect=Details


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice54

This just my 2 cents 

That way will work fine but you may just want to use a rabbit bit, it's quicker than the planner not to talk about the ware and tare on the planner blades, they are not cheap and easy to switch out like a router bit.

Vert. bit speed 12,000 rpm. make 2 or 3 passes, the last one would only be 1/32" cut or less.
S & R bit set. 12,000 rpm's also,,,but it can be done well in one pass.

But use a full size feather board for the R & S bits, that's to say a 2 x 4 stock clamped at each end of the router table fence, that you ran in the planner/jointer to get it true and squar and flat... this will keep your fingers out of the way of the bits plus hold the stock down to the top..

Here's one more small tip, use wide stock then rip it to size ( 2 7/16" the norm) after you have both ends/sides done.. 

They make and sell a back cutter bit just for the vert bits but the rabbit will work fine ..

Undercutter Bits
#8679 $18.00,,,NOTE they cut 5/8" deep..unlike the normal rabbit bit,unless you have one of the high end rabbit bit sets that you can switch the bearing on...to get the 5/8" deep cut...
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/raised_panel_router_bits2.html

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rprice54 said:


> So I'm about to try out my newest set of bits. I bought a rail/style bit set and a vertical panel bit from Rockler. I only have a 1 3/4HP Porter Cable router and didn't think it could handle a horizontal bit.
> 
> I know a lot of the horizontal bits have a back-cutter. I figure I can use a rabbeting bit for the same effect on the back of the panel to keep it flush with the front of the door frame, but what if I just plane the panels down an extra 1/8" (or whatever the depth is needed to keep them flush). I figure I can control the width of the edge of the panel by how many passes I make with the vertical bit. I will plane them first to be sure they don't tip over in the planer.
> 
> ...


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

I had planned on 2" for the doors but have plenty of stock. I'll have to play with it on sketchup to see how it looks. Would mean smaller panels... possibly able to make out of a single board instead of glue-up.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice54

2" will work but it makes it hard to get it right, cutting the boards to size.

2 7/16" makes it easy...most R & S bits cut 7/16" deep,but you should check your bit set 1st., the 7/16" on each end of the board is lost in the joint so to speak..

Let's say you want a door that's 10" x 14" when your done,, the rails would be cut 6" long and the stile would be cut to 14" long, as you can see it's easy to get it just right every time with almost no math...

Just a note about glue ups, it's best if the panel is going to be 6" wide or bigger, most woods will cup over time and deform the door...(bowed door) it was once a tree and always wants to go back to that state.


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rprice54 said:


> I had planned on 2" for the doors but have plenty of stock. I'll have to play with it on sketchup to see how it looks. Would mean smaller panels... possibly able to make out of a single board instead of glue-up.


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

I had planned on making the rails longer to accomodate the joint, but I think I like the look of bigger frames on the doors anyways.

We have several large panels in our kitchen that have remained stable over years of use/sunlight/seasons. I think part of it is how you dry it, mill it, and finish it (ie quickly after milling). Some warping may be inevitable but in a stable environment I haven't seen too much movement with some of my larger panels in the past. These will be about 10" wide.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice54

You many want to check out the links below 
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/smfld-6.htm
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/kitc-5.htm
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/jig-1.htm

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/menu2.htm

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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

rprice54 said:


> So I'm about to try out my newest set of bits. I bought a rail/stile bit set and a vertical panel bit from Rockler. I only have a 1 3/4HP Porter Cable router and didn't think it could handle a horizontal bit.
> 
> I know a lot of the horizontal bits have a back-cutter. I figure I can use a rabbeting bit for the same effect on the back of the panel to keep it flush with the front of the door frame, but what if I just plane the panels down an extra 1/8" (or whatever the depth is needed to keep them flush). I figure I can control the width of the edge of the panel by how many passes I make with the vertical bit. I will plane them first to be sure they don't tip over in the planer.
> 
> ...


It looks like that vertical bit is for making a raised panel in 3/4" stock with a 1/4" tongue. This will make the panel proud of the frame in the front and recessed in back which is perfectly acceptable unless you are running the finished doors through a drum sander. If you reduce the panel thickness or set the fence to leave a 3/8" tongue with the intent of making a separate back cut you will reduce the amount of profile on the face to the point that it may not look correct.


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

thanks for all the links, I can't wait to go through some of that stuff.

re: panel thickness, that's what I need to test and find out- to see if I can get a good profile on a 5/8 board.

re: tall fence, I have a setup I used for making raised panels on my tablesaw for my entertainment center, but I like the look of that jig, I'll have to look into it.

Thanks again for all the info, now I need to find out what speeds 1-2-3-4 on my porter cable router actually mean in RPM, I think I've seen it around here before.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi RP,

I would probably run it a speed that "sounds" correct. I'm not familar with PC routers but I'd say use speeds 1 or 2. This of course would be for the item #21487. If for item #21130, max speed should be just fine. 

Hope this helps.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice

I have many Porter Cable routers and I don't use the speed control numbers ,that's to say I always start with the number 1 and move up to what the router and the bit tells me what it wants to have,, they all have a voice and will tell you what they want or need ...  one number for Oak,Cherry will not be the same for pine or the size of the bit you are using... speed feed comes in to play all the time and the router will tell you I'm going to burn/chip out your wood if you don't slow me down or turn me a bit faster ..  always make a test pass b/4 you run the job...


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

that makes sense, there definitely is some 'feel' to it all. the walnut tends to be a little brittle, I'll be sure to test it out.

I'm going to make some type of sled for the rails , I just need to be sure I can raise the router bit up high enough.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice

_I'm not sure if you will believe this or not but you don't need a _sled for the rails (cope) cut once you set the bit height you should not move the router up or down..when you replace the bit with the next bit ( bead ) in the matched R & S set..


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rprice54 said:


> that makes sense, there definitely is some 'feel' to it all. the walnut tends to be a little brittle, I'll be sure to test it out.
> 
> I'm going to make some type of sled for the rails , I just need to be sure I can raise the router bit up high enough.


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

so I took the calipers to the bit set, the overlap looks to be 3/8. So if I make my doors 2 3/8 wide then the rails need to be 4" shorter than the door width, right? The doors I need are 15 5/8 wide by 20" tall. So my rails need to be 11 5/8, right?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi rprice

You'er right on the button BUT don't forget the over lap most are 1/2" on all 4 sides. 
unless your are going to use the inset type (flush with the face frame or cabinet)

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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

check.

I'm going with 1/2" overlap (2" face frame) like I did on my walnut computer desk. 

Thanks again.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sounds good rprice

You didn't say what type of hinge(s) you are going to use , but the jig below is a great one and it's at the right price...unlike the high price ones you see on the market place now days// >>>

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?Offerings_ID=18060&TabSelect=Details
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/7311-concealed-hinge-jig.html

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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

my bro-in-law works at a custom cabinet shop here in town. I "cheat" and have them intstall fully concealed european hinges for me, they have a dedicated machine that takes about 15 second per door to drill and mount the hinges. Then I just hang them on the face frame and they are fully adjustable in any way you can imagine. They charge me about $6 a door including the hinges...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI rprice

Can't beat that  ,,, you can buy the hinges off eBay for a 1.oo ea. the last time I did I got a lot of 100 bulk pack ,that are made to hang from the face frame, it's lot quicker to use the face frame than the case...no real measuring needed the norm....I use a block jig to line them up true for both sides the norm. ( just clamp the block jig in place and set the door on the block jig and put in the screws in the face frame..)


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

here are the sides and doors (dry fit) of the buffet I'm working on. Last time I posted a project people wanted 'in progress' pics, so here you go. I also built a new router table fence, the last one I had was pretty basic, it was actually the sacrificial fence for my table saw flipped around. This one is just for the router (my table is set in the extension wings of my TS). These show the setup I used for the panels, the fence is already ~7" tall, so I didn't use an axullary fence to support the panels. 

the rockler bits worked great! I ran the router at speed "3" which sounded right.

The wide rails on the side pieces are not glued the entire width, I was afraid it would be too much cross grain. so I glued them next to the panel to keep the joints tight. the ends will covered/secured by molding/trim once the buffet gets assembled.

Bobj: I now see what you mean about coping first and then ripping out after. After turning one of my rails into scrapwood I grabbed a bigger piece and coped it first and then ripped out the rails. Thanks.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Looking Good rpice54

It's going to be nice buffet 

One more small tip,,, if you are going to round over the door edges take care not to go to deep,,,,the cup hole for the hinges is right below the round over..
a 1/4" "R" round over bit works well for this job...and will dress up the edge very nice..and removes that sharp edge... 

By using a cove bit on the back side of the door will but in a finger/pull handle so to speak but it only needs to be 4" to 6" long the norm..a quick job to do on the router table but it adds alot to the cabinet...the pro.touch... 



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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

would you do that even with a hardware handle?

I used a 1/4 round over on the walnut desk and the doors were 5/8 thick (never let someone else plane your stock- another story) and I still had room for the hinges, but it was tight. I figure I'll do the same here. I left all my stock at 13/16. All my boards were flat and smooth by that point, I didn't see a need to take off any more. It feels more robust even though it's only 1/16 more. 

I had some thicker boards, the top will actually be 7/8.


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## rprice54 (Jan 1, 2006)

It's done: http://www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?p=77290#post77290


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## BCK (Feb 23, 2014)

I did a test panel with a cove type bit taking off the 1/8 or so first off the back, then the panel bit to get to where it fit and it was level with the styles and rails..maybe this helps...


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## kevin887 (Mar 11, 2014)

rprice54 said:


> So I'm about to try out my newest set of bits. I bought a rail/stile bit set and a vertical panel bit from Rockler. I only have a 1 3/4HP Porter Cable router and didn't think it could handle a horizontal bit.
> 
> I know a lot of the horizontal bits have a back-cutter. I figure I can use a rabbeting bit for the same effect on the back of the panel to keep it flush with the front of the door frame, but what if I just plane the panels down an extra 1/8" (or whatever the depth is needed to keep them flush). I figure I can control the width of the edge of the panel by how many passes I make with the vertical bit. I will plane them first to be sure they don't tip over in the planer.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the links.


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