# Osborne or Incra?



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Okay. You guys have brushed on this here and there. But now I want to know. Buying me a Christmas present.

"*Osborne EB3 Excalibur Miter Gauge vs. Incra 1000SE Miter Gauge*"

I want to buy just one of the 2. Here is what I have going on...

I have a saw with 2 left miter slots. First is 10" from the blade. Second is 10" from that miter slot. All three of my miter slots (2 left, 1 right) extend across 48".

Obsborne has good reviews as being sturdy and accurate. It gets knocks for not being able to adapt things (accessories and fence extensions) to their special fence extrusion. 

Incra has good reviews as being very accurate. It has a standard aluminum extrusion that you can hang accessories off of. It gets knocks for fence flex.

Now let me throw a wrench into it... I can get both for about the same price, if I buy soon. (Christmas specials.) I want the ability to add another lower priced miter gauge, that can attach to an aluminum extrusion, to use "my" second miter slot for support... Using the hybrid assembly as a crosscut fence. I have jigs, fence stops, material hold-downs and other accessories that mount via t-slots...

So, let's hear from owner's here who have one of them and what they think might work best for me for what "I" want to use it for. Info please?


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Okay. You guys have brushed on this here and there. But now I want to know. Buying me a Christmas present.
> 
> "*Osborne EB3 Excalibur Miter Gauge vs. Incra 1000SE Miter Gauge*"
> 
> ...



Mike,

If you have been followoing my threads you will recall that I ended up with both gauges. As to accuracy, both are equally accuratel, but required precise calibration that takes some careful care. Also the accuracy of either one requires that you use a blade with minimum flutter. I had to use a full kerf blade with a stabilizer to achieve this. I like both gauges but due to the Incra's ability to add the acessories that you mentioned I would go with it if I only could have one. Once I achieved the accuracy thst I needed with the Incra tool the Osborne has just been parked, but this is no reflection on the Osborne, it just that the Incra is set up with the fence and express sled that I use for crosscuts for many but not of my crosscuts. I will be watching for the posts of other members of this forum on this thread.

Jerry

I


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I can only speak for the Osborne, but I love it. Rock solid fence, and I have had no issues with it.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Mike,
> 
> If you have been followoing my threads you will recall that I ended up with both gauges. As to accuracy, both are equally accuratel, but required precise calibration that takes some careful care. Also the accuracy of either one requires that you use a blade with minimum flutter. I had to use a full kerf blade with a stabilizer to achieve this. I like both gauges but due to the Incra's ability to add the acessories that you mentioned I would go with it if I only could have one. Once I achieved the accuracy thst I needed with the Incra tool the Osborne has just been parked, but this is no reflection on the Osborne, it just that the Incra is set up with the fence and express sled that I use for crosscuts for many but not of my crosscuts. I will be watching for the posts of other members of this forum on this thread.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry-
I remember that you had the Incra, but didn't remember you also had an Osborne. I thought of you specifically as I wrote the post and thought to PM (Private Message) you... But I have PM'ed you previously and heard nothing back, so I just figured you don't check your PM's and overlooked it.

Thank you. I figured the Incra would work for my needs. I figured the second miter gauge (my digital) in my second miter slot would add support to the fence and help prevent any fence flex.

But I know nothing about the Osborne Miter Gauge and it's fence, so I'm in a vacuum on that side of this. Just know what others have wrote about it... but really not specific info as related to my needs.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I second Doug's Osborne experience. I haven't had a lot of time spent with mine yet as I just got it last week. So far I'm really impressed with it's rigidity. Don't care about hanging doodads off it; it comes with a flip stop and that's all I need...I want it as a rock solid crosscut platform, not for any other reason. I do all of my long length cross-cutting on my scms. I'll be interested in seeing how it performs, breaking down 2' x 8' x 3/4" plywood, accurately.
Mike, and my new ts toys, have inspired me to do a major cleaning and adjustment on my Delta Contractor saw; so far I've been very impressed with the factory adjustments, and how well the saw's maintained them. The blade's verticalness was the only glitch that needed attention...still playing with the stops.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Doug and Dan- Thanks for the info. Makes my choice harder now.

Any help of posting a closeup of both fence fronts? The sale ads, I only see the rear. I have an idea that the Incra is a mirror of the back side. The Osborne? Is it just flat with sand paper for grip? (something I read)

Most my up to 12" is also crosscut on my SCMS. Over that? 2'x8'x3/4"... exactly. All over than on the TS. Use my sleds for most things. The t-slot attachments are already used on my sleds, so I already have them. Now just in an experimenting mood and was going to try other things.

One of those hang-offs I was thinking on... my finger joint jig. Even when I do order that other saw, I'm thinking I'm going to have to get a little creative to get stuff like that working on a sliding table. (I have ideas.) It still has miter slots. So what I buy now and use, will still be reused and expanded down the road.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> Jerry-
> I remember that you had the Incra, but didn't remember you also had an Osborne. I thought of you specifically as I wrote the post and thought to PM (Private Message) you... But I have PM'ed you previously and heard nothing back, so I just figured you don't check your PM's and overlooked it.
> 
> Thank you. I figured the Incra would work for my needs. I figured the second miter gauge (my digital) in my second miter slot would add support to the fence and help prevent any fence flex.
> ...


Mike,
First of all I am sorry about the PM. I don't recsll getting it, but obviously I mis-Qed. 

The reason that I bought the Osborne tools was that I was not able to get my 30 degree cuts to be just exactly perfect for the hexegon ring that I was working on. It was after I got the Osborne and used it for a short time to see if it would work better than the Incra for my project. When it didn't is when I came to the conclusion that the problem was not in either miter gauge, but in the flutter of the thin kerf blade. As Doug has stated, the Osborne gauge is a very good gauge and you sure won't go wrong if you go that route, II do hope that you let us know which way you finally go and what leads you to your final choice. 

By the way, in regard to the Osborne tool, they advertise that it is calibrated at the factory and ready to go right out of the box, I did not find that to be true of the copy that i got, but calibration is simple if you know how to do it, much like brain surgery, if you know what you are doing there is nothing to it, but if you don't, well you are probably not going to get the results that you are looking for. The Incra was not calibrated either when I first got it.

Jerry


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

MAFoElffen said:


> Doug and Dan- Thanks for the info. Makes my choice harder now.
> 
> Any help of posting a closeup of both fence fronts? The Osborne? Is it just flat with sand paper for grip? (something I read)
> 
> .


Here ya go.

The top of the fence will take any attachment that uses a standard size bolt. I usually have 2 flip stops on mine. I didn't put the sandpaper on, and I don't think I'm missing anything. I may add a hold down clamp like my old miter gage had, but things don't seem to move around any.

The end of the extrusion is also shown, If you wanted to, I don't think there would be any problem bolting on an additional sacrificial fence or box joint jig if you drilled a pair of holes.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

OK, my turn.
Bought the EB-3 several years ago, after comparing it with the Incra.

I saw one magazine review of miter gauges that said you couldn't flip it to the other side of the blade. Apparently the person/s that wrote the review have no idea to use them, and didn't read the instructions. I put the sand paper on mine. Works good.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I do believe the Osbourne is the one that Norm used to endorse...


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## WayneMahler (May 17, 2012)

I have been looking at the Incra HD now with these posts I am going to have to re-look at the Osborne. Thanks for all the info and I will keep an eye on this.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

kp91 said:


> Here ya go.
> 
> The top of the fence will take any attachment that uses a standard size bolt. I usually have 2 flip stops on mine. I didn't put the sandpaper on, and I don't think I'm missing anything. I may add a hold down clamp like my old miter gage had, but things don't seem to move around any.
> 
> The end of the extrusion is also shown, If you wanted to, I don't think there would be any problem bolting on an additional sacrificial fence or box joint jig if you drilled a pair of holes.


Thanks for the pic's. That really gives a visual.

I don't know why my stops wouldn't work on that top slot. How high is the fence?

Seeing the slot in back where the tri-fold bar mounts to the fence... Does it mount just in two places in that slot? Is that how it "pivots" when you adjust the miter angle? (not really a formal pivot point, but varies one side of the triangle?) So flipping it left or right is just in that slot?

What is the measurement of that slot? From table to slot? Slot is 1/4 wide? 

Why I asked those- Wondering if it (the Osborne Base) would mount to an aluminum extrusion to expand it's capabilities?

I really can see that the design of the Osborne Base would be strong and steadfast... but if that were possible, I thought it might be possible to have both worlds. I know it might seem sacrilegious to those loyal to either camp, but if it could mount to a standard extrusion, then the Osborne base could be used with the Incra fence (?) Maybe Jerry could enlighten on that.

If that were so, I'd buy both to combine them for my needs. If so, then between the two bases... see where that is going?

How long are the Miter bars on each?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I had misgivings about applying the 'sandpaper'...more like a course deck coating...and I also plan on giving it a miss until I've used it for awhile. 
Nobody mentioned the low-friction (teflon?) tape strips they supplied for the base of the gauge? Put it on or leave it off? Again I'm tempted to just leave it off. My TS top is pretty slick.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Seeing the slot in back where the tri-fold bar mounts to the fence... Does it mount just in two places in that slot? Is that how it "pivots" when you adjust the miter angle? (not really a formal pivot point, but varies one side of the triangle?) So flipping it left or right is just in that slot?"
Mike the hypotenuse is really two components; sort of like a hydraulic piston. The part attached to the fence is graduated with markings and slides into a rectangular tube extrusion, which is attached to the miter bar. There's a clamping screw arrangement to lock the sliding portion at its selected position. Were you referring to using it as either a right or left of blade device? If so, then yes, switch the hypotenuse portion over to the other side...I haven't tried doing it but it's such a simple arrangement that it couldn't take more than a few seconds.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "Seeing the slot in back where the tri-fold bar mounts to the fence... Does it mount just in two places in that slot? Is that how it "pivots" when you adjust the miter angle? (not really a formal pivot point, but varies one side of the triangle?) So flipping it left or right is just in that slot?"
> Mike the hypotenuse is really two components; sort of like a hydraulic piston. The part attached to the fence is graduated with markings and slides into a rectangular tube extrusion, which is attached to the miter bar. There's a clamping screw arrangement to lock the sliding portion at its selected position. Were you referring to using it as either a right or left of blade device? If so, then yes, switch the hypotenuse portion over to the other side...I haven't tried doing it but it's such a simple arrangement that it couldn't take more than a few seconds.


Well, that is part of it. In my present saw, I would use on the left of the blade with my 2 left miter slots. On the Saw I'm ordering, I'm thinking that I would use it on the right. Sliding table is on left side. But that slider does have 2 miter slots in it, so I guess I could always lock the slider.

So the other side of that, is that if the Osborne base just attaches to the fence via the rear slot, allowing the fence to adjust to and away from the blade... to the right side if needed... Then it also might mount to a standard aluminum extrusion such as used on the Incra.

If it did, I would use the Osborne base (it's foundation and strong point) with a 24" to 36" aluminum extruded fence, with another miter gauge base left of it in my other outer-leftmost miter slot. Which would open the door to use an Incra Fence with an Osborne base. (With the Incra base mounted in my leftmost miter slot.)

If I did buy the Incra fence, my plans were to use it with another miter gauge in my leftmost miter slot. my logic tells me that a 2' to 3' fence end has leverage on a pivot and mount/lock point that are only a matter of inches from each other. That's where I see the Osborne as having an advantage. Difference in use between using them as a miter gauge to cut small piece work or as a mitered crosscut fence to cut larger work... Support of those larger pieces that cannot be cut on a SCMS.

On my present saw, I've always had to get creative with that. On the ordered saw, that is a wash. The slider will take care of that... but then I'll have to get creative with the jigs I am accustom to using with my present saw.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

My head is spinning!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> My head is spinning!


Because I'm talking about modifying something out of the box to work for me? Or because I'm talking about 2 different saws- a present saw that It has an immediate need and a saw that's coming, where that use will evolve?

I'm serious.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I have a INCRA and love it. To be honest I don't think you will go wrong with either one. Both are good and it comes down to personal preference.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Because I'm talking about modifying something out of the box to work for me? Or because I'm talking about 2 different saws- a present saw that It has an immediate need and a saw that's coming, where that use will evolve?
> 
> I'm serious.


Heh...so was I!
seriously, I think I need to _see_ what it should look like. From your description It'd probably be easier to just make what you actually want to end up with. The Osborne is a pretty basic concept. The value is in the beautifully executed product. The fence itself is extremely well built and designed.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I do believe the Osbourne is the one that Norm used to endorse...


I don't know about Norm, but Tommy Mac of Rough Cut has it on his sawstop saw, without the grip strip. Just saw it on his trellis episode last nite


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes, I've seen that a few times, just never could ID it as being an Osbourne. 
I have to agree with Dan...both are top notch projects. I have an Incra 2000, a bit odd looking, but quite effective, easy to use and adjust. Next one will be a 3000. 



kp91 said:


> I don't know about Norm, but Tommy Mac of Rough Cut has it on his sawstop saw, without the grip strip. Just saw it on his trellis episode last nite


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

After much research, I choose the Osborne. Just seemed to have higher praise in reviews. Now, if I only had more time home to use it.


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## MorrisonCharles (Feb 13, 2009)

I have had the Incra for over two years and I think it is close to perfection. Incra has good reviews as being very accurate and they are right. It came to me dead on accurate and has not needed any adjustments. It does not have any fence flex that I can determine.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

morrisonc said:


> I have had the Incra for over two years and I think it is close to perfection. Incra has good reviews as being very accurate and they are right. It came to me dead on accurate and has not needed any adjustments. It does not have any fence flex that I can determine.


Charles,
I also have the Incra gsuge and agree with you about the accuracy and stability of the tool, the only thing different is that I did have to re-calibrate mine as I did with the Osborne. I'm wondering now if I might be more critical of calibrations issues ummmm.

Jerry


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

My 1000 *HD* showed up today. I've had it on my Amazon wish list for nearly a year and was planning on buying at $160, when it hit $120 I pulled the trigger quick like. 
First impression is a nice piece of engineering, which I have come to expect from INCRA. I'm not totally lost with it's setup as I'm uprading from a V120. I'm still not real clear on how that micro vernier works but I seldom work in 10ths of degrees anyway. Actually, I never work that tight and don't plan on starting. What I really wanted was the extension fence and shop flip stop.
It did set up very quickly though. 
I did look at the Osbourne and thought it was interesting but I have had no experience with the company and have found little feedback about them on anything but their miter guage. I do like the design of the Osbourne, it may be more rigid than a protractor layout but I think I'll stick with what I have.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

MAFoElffen said:


> Okay. You guys have brushed on this here and there. But now I want to know. Buying me a Christmas present.
> 
> "*Osborne EB3 Excalibur Miter Gauge vs. Incra 1000SE Miter Gauge*"


I have one of the Incras (1000 head, longer flip-stop fence, the Miter Express sled) and love it.

The positive fence stops at 1/32" increments make for quick setup which is 100% repeatable if a part is ruined and I need another and when it matters the stop can be spaced out to clear a sacrificial sub fence. The extension on the fence works fine too.

I don't know that the vernier angle adjustment matters - when you need odd angles that exact (like for compound angles) you're better off transferring what you need with your bevel gauge.



> Now let me throw a wrench into it... I can get both for about the same price, if I buy soon. (Christmas specials.) I want the ability to add another lower priced miter gauge, that can attach to an aluminum extrusion, to use "my" second miter slot for support... Using the hybrid assembly as a crosscut fence. I have jigs, fence stops, material hold-downs and other accessories that mount via t-slots...


The incra fence should work great - it's flat across the back side with a standard mini T-track used to attach the angle head and another on front to attach your sub-fence or whatever.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Heh...so was I!
> seriously, I think I need to _see_ what it should look like. From your description It'd probably be easier to just make what you actually want to end up with. The Osborne is a pretty basic concept. The value is in the beautifully executed product. The fence itself is extremely well built and designed.


Dan-
You're right of course. So I thought about this. Then I thought about it again. The I rethought about this.

Basically, I want to put 2 miter gauges on one bar. I have 2 miter slots left of my blade. 2 miter guages bars on one fence would be able to slide in those 48 inch slots. What I was also thinking was on the length of a fence to support around 2-4 feet stock. Poor mans sliding table? Using both miter slots would add to the accuracy and help prevent fence flex.

I thought about everyone's comments. I read lots of reviews. I looked at all the pictures.

Obsborne EB3. I like the gauge base itself. I can see that the mechanism is strong and solid. I don't like the fence extrusion. I don't think it would suit what I want to do, so I'd want to replace it, at least with something longer. If the gauge (without fence could connect to a fractional or metric aluminum t-slot extrusion, I would replace with a 3' to 4' piece of that. The I would add another miter gauge for my other miter slot. (I even thought using an Incra base).

Incra 1000SE. Good base gauge. Fence at the minimum length for my needs. Found a replacement fence for the Incra 5000, that would suit me on that base. Would still need another gauge for the left slot.Not knowing the measurements of the slots in that fence from the bottom edge... What, end up buying another cheaper Incra for it's base, to make sure it all fit together?

Darn, if the two had the same bottom to center of t-slot measurements, I would combine an Osborne EB3 base, an Incra 1000SE base and an Incra 5000 fence. I really need to go somewhere that sells those and get the measurement of where the slots are. Then I added it up and I would be looking at around $300 to $350.

Then I reread this thread and stopped at your post. _"Build my own."_ I thought about this before. I have a nice Craftsman digital miter gauge that is accurate. It uses a standard 8020 type fractional 1020 aluminum extrusion as a fence. The fence is 15-1/2", which I find for what I do, a little short.

So I looked and I can get a 48" stick of 1020 for $21. Now to look for another miter gauge that will mount to the T-Slot of that extrusion. Measurements for that is 1/2" from the bottom to the center of the t-slot.

If the Osborne had those measurements, it would have to be right on, as the miter fence mount bolts are drilled with a hole. The miter fence mount is about 6-7 inches long (just estimated from the pictures of it), so I would have to use it in the left most miter slot. I think it would be very strong.

If the Incra had the same measurements or was close to it... as the mounting is via vertical slots. More parts are available for this line of gauges, adding adaptability, to mix and match different things between. Although I don't think the fence mount and locking mechanism is as strong as the Osborne (just by design), I think it will do the job.

I guess I could always just make another miter gauge. It really doesn't need to have any measuring graduations. It just needs to lock solid. I could just go off the measurements of my other miter gauge. If I did make my own, I would use one of my 24" miter bars, for a little more support.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I agree with others, the Incra 1000 HD miter gauge, and miter express.
They are a hard combination to beat.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dan was kind enough to send me pictures and measure his Osborne for me. (Thanks again Dan.)

Sadly, the Osborne, from the bottom edge to the middle of the bottom slot on the back face of the fence is 3/4". This same measurement on a standard aluminum extrusion (1020 or 2040) is 1/2". So the Osborne won't work for me.

*** Could one of you Incra 1000 owner's please measure and post the same measurement on your Incra for me?


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

What you want to do is take nice straight piece of hardwood about 3 to 5 feet long.
The fence on the Incra has slots to use quarter 20 head nuts to attach that piece of hardwood. You would have to countersink the head of the screw into the wood.
I would probably use Allen head screws.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> *"Could one of you Incra 1000 owner's please measure and post the same measurement on your Incra for me?"*


Please? Anyone? Bottom edge to middle of the slot the miter gauge mounts to the fence.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Here are pictures of my Incra 1000SE.

Looks like your measurement is 1 1/16"


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

TRN_Diesel said:


> Here are pictures of my Incra 1000SE.
> 
> Looks like your measurement is 1 1/16"


Thanks Dan.

That seems to be the consensus for that measurement.

I learned a few things about Incra Miter Gauges. Good news for Incra owners. All their fences fit any of their miter gauges. They are ALL interchangable. What is not interchangeable is the flip stops. Certain flip stops go with their respective fence type.

For instance a V27 and 2000se will take a 1000se, 3000se or 5000se fence. (or any of the other fences) But you have to buy the stop that works with that fence type to have a working stop.

Bad news for me is the measurement of that slot. It will not take a standard extrusion... Those slots for a 1020 and 2040 extrusion are at 0.5" from the edge, then at 1", 2", etc for the fractional extrusions. ...Which I have a 4 foot 1020 and a 3 foot 2040 waiting in the wings, ready to be used for fences. 

If bought all new (or already had an Inra fence), I could get an incra 1000se, a V27 and an accessory Incra 36-54" accessory telescopic flip fence (same as on the 5000se)... and have what I need, but have $250 to $300 into it. Seems like Incra is a bit more "adaptable" if you stay with their accessories.

Thank you all for your help and responses.


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

I bought the osborn miter rig before I knew about the incra one. I watched a Charles neil video where he demonstragted it. I was impressed. I had to flip the original set up to work with my bosch table saw. It works fine for me because I have only had use for the few angles it has settins for. I guess the incra will do more angles, but now that I have an incra i-box, and had to add slick tape to its miter slot inser to make it work on my bosch router table and bosch table saw, I have issues with incra.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

almost there said:


> I bought the osborn miter rig before I knew about the incra one. I watched a Charles neil video where he demonstragted it. I was impressed. I had to flip the original set up to work with my bosch table saw. It works fine for me because I have only had use for the few angles it has settins for. I guess the incra will do more angles, but now that I have an incra i-box, and had to add slick tape to its miter slot inser to make it work on my bosch router table and bosch table saw, I have issues with incra.


You say you have have issues with Incra... Bosch table saws have a t-slot miter slot. I'm not sure about the spec's on that. (I've never used that saw.) . Does it accept a 3/4" x 3/8 miter bar? I know the Bosch router tables have a standard sized 3/4" x 3/8" miter slot. Why and how did you have to "flip" your Incra miter gauge to work with both?

The Osborne has the same size miter bar. Did you not have any problems using the Osborne on the same tables?

Just trying to understand what issues you have.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lee, I'm a little confused also re your Osborne ...for a different reason. The small indent button on the _bottom_ of the 'hypotenuse' shaft has many angle options drilled for it (indents, for want of a better word). I can't imagine wanting more ready made options than are factory installed(?). If there was one every 5 deg. it'd drive you crazy. For odd angles, actually for pretty much any angle, you probably would want to check it against a precise known template in any case, for precision cuts.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I plan on adding my flip stop on to the top of attached sub fence.
Probably a Kreg track and flip stop.


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## RickPr (Jan 16, 2012)

I can't comment on the Osborne. I can tell you that I am extremely happy with my Incra (3000SE).


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

the miter bar on the incra is different ior else mine has a defect. The osborn miter track bar tightened correctly. The incra bar needed thickness of slick tap to take out the play


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

slick tape


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

The incra has am adjustable mitre slot to allow you to take out the play. This is covered in the instructions.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dan; I think Lee's issue is specific to the Bosch miter slot(?), and his Incra.
His Bio would suggest that he actually may have tried the adjustment... 

_"and had to add slick tape to its miter slot inser to make it work on my bosch router table and bosch table saw, I have issues with incra._

_"A standard ¾”-wide by 3/8”-deep miter slot runs the full width of the table and accepts any common miter guide or jig. The miter slot is square and does not have the T-shaped bottom, which is of no real consequence on a router table."_
Bosch RA1181 Router Table - NewWoodworker.com LLC

Very curious.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I should have added that it sounds more like the Bosch slots being the problem, not the Incra. There were other Google links to comments re the slots.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> Dan; I think Lee's issue is specific to the Bosch miter slot(?), and his Incra.
> His Bio would suggest that he actually may have tried the adjustment...
> 
> _"and had to add slick tape to its miter slot inser to make it work on my bosch router table and bosch table saw, I have issues with incra._
> ...


My point would be with play on a mitre slot with the Incra using it on the Bosch table. There is an adjustment on the Incra mitre bar to either enlarge it or reduce it depending on the mitre bar slot width. Using an allen key, you can adjust for this variance in width.

If I can suggest as well to provide pictures of what we are dealing with. Someone else commented on this stating his head was spinning, mine is about to explode now!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No, I got that. What I'm saying is that someone with a Bosch saw or table, using a Bosch OEM miter gauge, wouldn't even realize there was any difference between his/hers and say a Delta, vis-a-vis the slot dimensions. It would only matter if you tried using a third party miter gauge. 
If any members have both a Bosch with miter slots, and a caliper, perhaps they could take an accurate measurement and post it here? It'd be very useful information to have, _especially_ for the Bosch owners wanting to upgrade their miter gauges!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

!!...hang on, Dan; are you saying there's an adjustment on the INCRA _over and above_ the standard adjustment for getting an accurate fit, ie the allen screws as seen on the Osborne?
An adjustment that would allow anywhere from 5/8" to 3/4"+ ?

_"My point would be with play on a mitre slot with the Incra using it on the Bosch table. There is an adjustment on the Incra mitre bar to either enlarge it or reduce it depending on the mitre bar slot width. Using an allen key, you can adjust for this variance in width._
-Other Dan


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> !!...hang on, Dan; are you saying there's an adjustment on the INCRA _over and above_ the standard adjustment for getting an accurate fit, ie the allen screws as seen on the Osborne?
> An adjustment that would allow anywhere from 5/8" to 3/4"+ ?
> 
> _"My point would be with play on a mitre slot with the Incra using it on the Bosch table. There is an adjustment on the Incra mitre bar to either enlarge it or reduce it depending on the mitre bar slot width. Using an allen key, you can adjust for this variance in width._
> -Other Dan


BINGO! We have a BINGO


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Here is what I have cut and pasted from Incra:

GlideLOCK Miter Bar
Six expansion disks adjust both sides of the bar for 
ZERO side play, low-friction travel on all table saws with standard miter gauge channels, including Delta,
Craftsman, imports, etc. An excellent fit in the channel directly transfers the Miter 1000HD's incredible accuracy directly to your project. The Miter 1000's adjustable miter bar will fit square-sided miter slots measuring 3/4" wide, 3/8" deep, and with or without a 15/16" T-slot at the bottom. The miter bar's adjustment range accommodates actual slot widths between 0.740" and 0.765".

Now you see with a picture and an explanation it should clear up any confusion. I have also attached the manual to help in the set-up. refer to Page 2 Figure 3 and Figure 4 for the expansion adjustment to fit different size mitre slots.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Hey Mike, I know you pretty well now and WHEN HAVE YOU EVER USED SOMETHING LIKE IT WAS MANUFACTURED? This (as you know) is not a criticism, but rather an observation. No matter what you buy, you are going to "mess with it". You're the only guy that I know of who could turn a grandfather clock into a bathroom scale. Why not just make the conscious decision to build something from scratch? I know you have the skills and I know you want something with SUPER-HERO abilities - so why not just buy the materials and build what you need? Work-backwards from what you need to "hang on it" to create a template for holes in a pattern that is able to do the many things you will need it to do. It sounds to me like you need some kinda sled with an omni-directional fence mechanism. A good protractor can be had for less than $20.00, a few knobs and jig handles here and there. Straight, high quality steel and aluminum are something you already use every day. You are like me, I end-up building a lot of my own tools, jigs, fixtures, appliances, etc. Sit down and list what you will need to do, and if you need; I will do some drawings for you, You have helped me (a lot) - so why not let me do something back for you in return. Fact: Even if you do not build your own - the review will help you focus on your most critical needs. You are at the *entirely opposite end of the spectrum from lazy*, but I think you need to utilize your amazing skill set and let me help you do some planning. Scribble-out what you want designed and send it to me - you have all of my contact info. Let me return some favors! Otis


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Mike I couldn't agree more with what Otis is saying. I think I may have the answer for you.

The Eagle Lake Woodworking site has a "Super Sled". He has done exactly what Otis is suggesting, take a sled and modify it to what you need. It has many functions and I believe it will serve you well.

For the record I am going to build one in the near future and create a new thread showing my progress. I need one to helkp with building cutting boards. I need a large sled to do the cross cuts and provide support which my mitre gauge does not provide.

You have the skill and frankly how you resist the feeling of building something you design and get to use! 

Good luck my friend.

Here is the link:

The Super Sled - YouTube


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...slot widths between 0.740" and 0.765"." 
That's only a range of .015", Dan. Not a lot in the scheme of things, especially if a Mfg. decides to go off and do their own thing, spec wise (anyone remember Betamax?). 
You see this with digital cameras; seems like every manufacturer feels the need to have their own proprietary download software and format. A major p.i.t.a.
Hence card readers; the equivalent of third party miter gauges. By the way my Spellchecker keeps reminding me to spell it "mitre" not "miter"...I've been ignoring it...but I digress.
So, once again, anyone out there with a Bosch and a caliper? Lee? How about measuring your mitre slot and posting the results?


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> "...slot widths between 0.740" and 0.765"."
> That's only a range of .015", Dan. Not a lot in the scheme of things, especially if a Mfg. decides to go off and do their own thing, spec wise (anyone remember Betamax?).
> You see this with digital cameras; seems like every manufacturer feels the need to have their own proprietary download software and format. A major p.i.t.a.
> Hence card readers; the equivalent of third party miter gauges. By the way my Spellchecker keeps reminding me to spell it "mitre" not "miter"...I've been ignoring it...but I digress.
> So, once again, anyone out there with a Bosch and a caliper? Lee? How about measuring your mitre slot and posting the results?


Dan, if you are using firefox, right click on the message window and see if the dictionary is set to English(US)! I had that problem for a while too!

Oh, and the .025" adjustment should handle most except those with wierd shaped slots. Don't know about Bosch, tho.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

I spell it Mitre


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

"mitre" is the correct way.......LOL


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Duane; of course it's set for English, I'm Canadian! ...lol
No really, what I was getting at is in the woodworking culture you hardly ever see anyone using the 'mitre' form. Almost like it's frowned upon. Usually I make a_ point _of using our quirky spelling.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh...I didn't see Dan and James' responses before I answered. From now on it's 'MITRE' !
_"Too the ramparts!!"_


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Too...a little jest.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Duane; of course it's set for English, I'm Canadian! ...lol
> No really, what I was getting at is in the woodworking culture you hardly ever see anyone using the 'mitre' form. Almost like it's frowned upon. Usually I make a_ point _of using our quirky spelling.


But which English?

English (Australian) English (Australian) Install Dictionary (246.8 KB)

English (British) English (British) Install Dictionary (235.3 KB)

English (Canadian) English (Canadian) Install Dictionary (194.6 KB)

English (New Zealand) English (New Zealand) Install Dictionary (206.8 KB)

English (South African) English (South African) Install Language Pack (235.5 KB) 

English (US) English (US) Install Dictionary (228.4 KB) 

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/language-tools/

Just as long as it's not _metric_ English!


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

did not flip the bar, just added slick tape to both sides of the bar. Neil at Incra told me today, that Bosch router tables and Bosch table saws have miter slots that are slightly wider than the standard. Their stuff is a better choice with standard sized slots. I have no desire to replace my Bosch Table saw, so I improvise. But I did not have to improvise the Osborn miter slider. It works very well for me. I think the osborn miter crosscut jig is, out of the box, ready for saws that tilt right. Mine tilts left, so I followed directions to make it work with my left tilting saw


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> Hey Mike, I know you pretty well now and WHEN HAVE YOU EVER USED SOMETHING LIKE IT WAS MANUFACTURED? This (as you know) is not a criticism, but rather an observation. No matter what you buy, you are going to "mess with it". You're the only guy that I know of who could turn a grandfather clock into a bathroom scale. Why not just make the conscious decision to build something from scratch? I know you have the skills and I know you want something with SUPER-HERO abilities - so why not just buy the materials and build what you need? Work-backwards from what you need to "hang on it" to create a template for holes in a pattern that is able to do the many things you will need it to do. It sounds to me like you need some kinda sled with an omni-directional fence mechanism. A good protractor can be had for less than $20.00, a few knobs and jig handles here and there. Straight, high quality steel and aluminum are something you already use every day. You are like me, I end-up building a lot of my own tools, jigs, fixtures, appliances, etc. Sit down and list what you will need to do, and if you need; I will do some drawings for you, You have helped me (a lot) - so why not let me do something back for you in return. Fact: Even if you do not build your own - the review will help you focus on your most critical needs. You are at the *entirely opposite end of the spectrum from lazy*, but I think you need to utilize your amazing skill set and let me help you do some planning. Scribble-out what you want designed and send it to me - you have all of my contact info. Let me return some favors! Otis


Coincedence you should say that... (LOL) The shipment from 80/20 arrived today. A 36" piece of 2040 fractional extrusion and a 48" piece of 1020 fractional extrusion.

Yes, I make a lot of my own tools. Some of those are "from" other tools. I know a few more like me that get something and modify it to work for what we want to do or need to do. I do sometimes think "I can make that better." Or I want to do this, but available tools don't get me there, but if I do modify this...

This thread has been good for me. It has exposed me to what is available out there. It has saved me money by not wanting to buy something that wouldn't work out for me. So I'm starting from (almost) scratch and building something to work. I can incorporate what I like about various fences into something that will work for me. The photos in this post inspired me to incorporate ideas into one crosscut miter fence system.

The 48" piece of 1020 is going to be a 4 foot crosscut / miter fence. I have a Craftsman Digital Miter Gauge that mounts onto that size extrusion (unpacked the shipping box and slipped on the head 1 minute later.) I have a ground 24" steel 3/4" x 3/8" bar coming for a miter bar; a piece of 4" x 6" aluminum angle coming.

Plans to use it on my Rockwell- The 4' extrusion with the Digital miter mounted to it. The other miter bar and angle will be... a sort of miter support/lock. The angle will be a miter head. I don't need to graduations at their other miter already has that. All it needs to do is ride in the miter slot, mount to the fence- and lock at the set angles for support. The angle I'm going to route into a miter head. It will have emphasis on support and being able to lock solidly.

I have some aluminum plate and had some thoughts on making a bottom for it sort of like an Incra 5000 sled, but... That was just toying with the idea. I don't think that is necessary for me. I already have many other sleds. I think what is more important for me is accuracy, ease of locking in at angles, locking at those angles solidly, support during use with no flexing.

These fences inspired me to build my own crosscut fence:


















Oh... What is the 2040 extrusion for? Going to build another rip fence.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

almost there said:


> did not flip the bar, just added slick tape to both sides of the bar. Neil at Incra told me today, that Bosch router tables and Bosch table saws have miter slots that are slightly wider than the standard. Their stuff is a better choice with standard sized slots. I have no desire to replace my Bosch Table saw, so I improvise. But I did not have to improvise the Osborn miter slider. It works very well for me. I think the osborn miter crosscut jig is, out of the box, ready for saws that tilt right. Mine tilts left, so I followed directions to make it work with my left tilting saw


The bosch saw table is also a t-slotted miter slot... Tape is one method. Also changing the adjustment screws to ones with a bigger head would give more adjustment. Problem with that- adjustment and tuning is usually for one table's miter slot. Your's would be adjusted to the narrower of the two table's miter slots... unless you tuned for each, each time you swapped between.

I have to agree that "that" is a hit on Bosch'es choice of using non-standard oversized slots rather than Incra using a standard sized miter bar. Other manufacturers of saws and accessories for them stick to that 3/4" x 3/8" standard... That is why that is a standard. It can still be made to work together. 

The reason that the Osborne worked... is you have more adjustment range with a set screw, than with an expanding bushing. And if you did need more adjustment for that you just get a longer set screw.

I've installed set screws in miter bars that didn't have an adjustment. The drawback to that is that if there is any defect in the slot, the set screw catches on that. A bushing or pad seems to spread that contact out some so it's not as noticeable.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Just a note-- Don't get me started on non-standard sizes for table saw t-slotted miter slots... too late.

Lower end Delta tables saws also share the non-standard sized t-slotted miter slot problem. There is s standard for miter slots- 5/8" x 1/4" and 3/4" x 3/8". There seems to be a loose standard for t-slots- 1/4" and 5/8".

But when it comes to table saws and t-slotted miter slots, it gets real fuzzy. Most are 3/4" for the miter slot, with a 7/8" to 15/16" T under that for a total depth of 3/8" for both... but that still varies. Some the T is 1-1/4" wide. The thickness of the T varies between 1/16" to 3/16".


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Not sure why the manufacturer's do this? If they are trying to set themselves apart they are succeeding but at the cost of driving customers away as well. 

Where ever you look there are different sizes for all sorts of things. Look at threads per inch or cell phone charging systems to name a few. 

Try not to pull your hair out but thanks for the heads up on the Bosch table saw. I was going to buy a portable table saw but have changed my mind given the saw does not have a "standard" mitre slot width, any Bosh representatives out there, pay attention you lost a sale today! Its a shame because they make great tools but it will be one I will not purchase that is for sure. My next tool upgrade when I move into a bigger shop will be a cabinet style table saw.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Possible change--

Just got off the phone from a friend from back east. He is going to send me a 48" piece of 1530 extrusion and the parts he has left-over from his Incra 5000. I pay the shipping.

He figures I might be able to figure a better way with a few parts to start out from. They are laying around his shop and he has no use for them. He used some parts off the Incra for a miter fence he built for his saw. 

From the measurements he gave me on the slots in the 1530 extrusion, an Osborne miter gauge would mount right in the first slot up, 0.75" from edge to center of slot. This should be good news to Osborn owners who want to use jigs. 

Another idea was to use an 15" long aluminum channel with 2" legs... having vertical slots cut into the opposing legs to be able to mount to different extrusions and miter gauges. Having slots cut into the channel as an additional lock down to the miter bars. Only problem with that so far, is I've only found AL channel with 2" legs as being 4" wide... No 2"-3" wide channel with that sized legs? 

It might be easier just route a miter head out of AL angle to use as the left lockdown like I originally planned. The Incra 5000 takes care of that with a simple piece of angle, a single hole for the extrusion slot, a single hole for the t-track under it. Adjustment / lockdown is loosen both screws, adjust to miter angle with head, lock head, lock both screws of the bracket. As you move the fence angle, it pivots on the head, while the screws slide simultaneously in the extrusion slot and the t-slot. Locking both screws keeps that part of the fence in that position and prevents fence flex.


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## Falegname (Nov 26, 2007)

I don't know if this is the correct forum, but I searched for a more relevant forum and couldn't find one; I apologize if it isn't. I have a chance to buy a Craftsman table saw model 113.27520; 1950s vintage I believe. Cast iron top and extensions, no rust, 3/4 HP motor. It appears to be in good condition but there is no mitre gauge with it. Is anyone familiar with that saw? Is the slot for a mitre gauge standard? Could I replace it with another Craftsman mitre gauge or an after market mitre gauge? Any counsel and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Falegname said:


> I don't know if this is the correct forum, but I searched for a more relevant forum and couldn't find one; I apologize if it isn't. I have a chance to buy a Craftsman table saw model 113.27520; 1950s vintage I believe. Cast iron top and extensions, no rust, 3/4 HP motor. It appears to be in good condition but there is no mitre gauge with it. Is anyone familiar with that saw? Is the slot for a mitre gauge standard? Could I replace it with another Craftsman mitre gauge or an after market mitre gauge? Any counsel and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


James, measure the slot. If it is 3/4" wide and 3/8" deep, most any after market miter gauge should fit. Craftsman did sell some that were not standard, but I think that one should be!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Falegname said:


> I don't know if this is the correct forum, but I searched for a more relevant forum and couldn't find one; I apologize if it isn't. I have a chance to buy a Craftsman table saw model 113.27520; 1950s vintage I believe. Cast iron top and extensions, no rust, 3/4 HP motor. It appears to be in good condition but there is no mitre gauge with it. Is anyone familiar with that saw? Is the slot for a mitre gauge standard? Could I replace it with another Craftsman mitre gauge or an after market mitre gauge? Any counsel and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


I just uploaded your Operating Manual here:
http://www.routerforums.com/craftsman-manuals/39594-craftsman-113-27520-a.html#post319948

Looking at photo's of that saw, it looks to be a standard 3/4" x 3/8" miter slot. Most standard miter gauges will fit it. It you want the nastalgia, lots of old Craftsman miter gauges make their way to Ebay... If you are looking for accuracy, then the miter gauges in this thread will work. Or about any in-between.


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## Falegname (Nov 26, 2007)

Dmeadows and MAFoElffen, thanks for your replies. They are very helpful.


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