# Help a new guy out...



## Steve V. (Oct 5, 2008)

What is the advantage, if any, to having a router lift like a Jessem if your router has the capability of table top adjustment? I've searched the forums and must not be searching the right thing.



Thanks,

Steve


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Steve

This is just my 2 cents 

No advantage that I can see unless some one likes to spend money, the norm ,it cost more than the router. 
Many of the new routers come with the device built it...so why buy something to replace what's now in place....  I think the router mfg. got the tip from Jessem and others ,why give the money to Jessem when they can get the sales..with just a bit of upgrading on the router they sale and make .



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Steve V. said:


> What is the advantage, if any, to having a router lift like a Jessem if your router has the capability of table top adjustment? I've searched the forums and must not be searching the right thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

Steve V. said:


> What is the advantage, if any, to having a router lift like a Jessem if your router has the capability of table top adjustment? I've searched the forums and must not be searching the right thing.


I bought a Porter Cable 890 which has a micro-adjuster that can be accessed above the table.

1) The router doesn't sit level when the clamp is released, so getting a precise setting is an iterative process between loosening the clamp, adjusting, tightening, and checking.

2) There's some backlash in the system. For cutting joints which require tight tolerances (lock miters) it's an iterative process cutting test pieces if you're not using a separate accurate (thousandths) height gauge to see how much the thing actually moved. Of course, the fence depth needs to be set to the same tolerances so a better setup on bit-height would only solve half the problem.

3) The fixed base travel away from the table is limited, so for cutting shallow dados or rabbets too wide for the rabetting set I'm stuck with bits having a cut length under 1" or making a spacer and getting longer machine screws. Come to think of it, a half hour with drill press, router, circle jig, and 1/2" MDF would be a fine idea.

A router lift would be better than all that, although I don't know that it would be $200+ worth of better.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I don't think there is a lot. But that all depends if your happy now. all in all, you are the one that needs to be happy. You may find a reason that i don't know about.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Steve,

I have to second what Bj said. Now days, this item is already incorporated into the router. We all have different experiences so, to decide to purchase a lift is entirely up to you. If you feel comfortable and believe it's a justifiable buy, then go for it.


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## bigjoedo (Nov 21, 2007)

Steve,

I have a Dewalt Router and bought a Rockler Lift (made by Jessem) for $180. I was tired of climbing under the table. The Lift makes it easy to change bits or adjust depth of cut. Is it a necessity ? No, it is more of a luxury, but for me well worth the price.

Joe


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

As far as I can tell, all the motorized router lifts such as the Jessum require that the router be permanently attached, which precludes changing base plates. If my budget allowed I might have one router per baseplate. If your router does not have a lift built in, look into the RouterRaizer made by Router technologies. They not only have a first rate, reasonably priced product, they also have superb customer assistance. They did survive the very heavy flooding of Des Moines Iowa (USA) this summer.

Why do I have one? I use the Oak-Park type base plates but due to overuse of my right shoulder and now compensating overuse of my left shoulder, I do not have the strength to pull the router and baseplate out several times per work session. Without the shoulder problems I would not have a router lift.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Steve, the advantages of having an after market lift is two fold. You get to spend more time doing set ups and you get to spend more money. 
Now to be serious, a lift device is handy for members with limited mobility. For some it is important to be able to make adjustments with one hand. These people benefit a great deal, and for some reason magazines have touted lifts as important parts of the "Ultimate router table". I believe it is because they get paid to advertise. Here at the forums we just call it as we see it.


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

I use a digital router lift from Jointec with a PC 7518. It works gerat, no back lash, and very easy to repeat a setup.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

wnagle said:


> I use a digital router lift from Jointec with a PC 7518. It works gerat, no back lash, and very easy to repeat a setup.


How do you get the bit back to the same depth in the collet with sufficient accuracy where it matters (a couple mils show up in how well a lock miter joint lines up) or do you run the bit down so its top is level with the insert and zero things out there? With 1/32"? per revolution on the crank how bad is that?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Drew

Here's a little tip I use to get the bits to come back in the same place ever time.

If you put a rubber gromet/rubber washer inside the collet or in the harbor hole the bit bit will always be in the same place, this little tip works great when you are using match set of bits ,like T & G or R & P bits , your joints will always be dead on .


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Drew Eckhardt said:


> How do you get the bit back to the same depth in the collet with sufficient accuracy where it matters (a couple mils show up in how well a lock miter joint lines up) or do you run the bit down so its top is level with the insert and zero things out there? With 1/32"? per revolution on the crank how bad is that?


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Like mention above if it aint broke don't fix it. Like me, there's nothing wrong with my PC 7539, it still runs like a champ above or below the table and it's 11yrs old. 

I built the Revolutionary router table from the "American Woodworkers mag" in 1997 and it still works fine ... for small occasional projects. Outside of trying the long elevator shaft screw and knob from PC which was a waste of money I never wanted to modify the router with any of the OTC elevator add ons, I still use it on out of shop jobs.

For me this makes bit changes and hgt. adjustments for table work a tedious trial and error set up followed by many assurance tests. There's nothing wrong with that if you aren't keeping track of time.


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## LuisC (Oct 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Drew
> 
> Here's a little tip I use to get the bits to come back in the same place ever time.
> 
> ...



Wow this is a pretty cool idea. I always wondered how to get the bit back at the same height. This works flawless as I just did it to my 1/2" chuck.

Thanks Bob....


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI LuisC

You're Welcome,, I got the tip from Marc Sommerfeld of Sommerfeld Tools if you have a spare buck or two send off for some of his videos..

They are great and Marc can show you many tips how to make cabinets and how to use the router table,,,,and I'm sure you will be like me and say WOW it's easy to make cabinets ,furniture , etc.once you know the tricks..from the expert like Marc.

Cabinet Making Made Easy
DVD
with Marc Smmerfeld
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?dept=4
http://www.ptreeusa.com/woodworking_videos.htm
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LuisC said:


> Wow this is a pretty cool idea. I always wondered how to get the bit back at the same height. This works flawless as I just did it to my 1/2" chuck.
> 
> Thanks Bob....


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Once again I must mention that the washer goes into the bottom of the shaft, not in the collet. The method BJ mentions is his own and against the directions of all manufacturers and experts.


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks Bob 

I tried the Marc Sommerfeld / Bobj3 rubber grommet tip and it worked out great for me too :sold:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike said:


> Once again I must mention that the washer goes into the bottom of the shaft, not in the collet. The method BJ mentions is his own and against the directions of all manufacturers and experts.


I'm at present seeking information regarding Bj's method from the dept. of mechanical engineering at the University of Western Australia and will advise you of the answer I get. In the meantime, an Opinion I was given by an engineering lab. technician in the mech. eng. dept. was that in his OPINION, there would be no safety issues at all, the only possible downside, and it would be negligible, would be slight extra stress on the collet and bearing due to the extra leverage that the extended cutter would produce, given the same pressure against the cutter. Watch this space.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

That will be great ..can't wait 

I'm NOT into re-engineering the collet but I took a hard look how the collet was made and most all of them have a band of steel to help hold it's shape, most of them have some type of guide to reline the collet once it's been removed and put back into place and that part of the collet can't be change I will say Marc putts the rubber gromet into the harbor hole and this works most of the time but some have a very deep hole so to say using the gromet in that way it may not work on some routers but by putting it in the nut it will stay in place, most don't tap the bit in place they just drop it in place,,,,I have also used some rubber hose for the deep holes and that works also..but it wants to fall out if the router is used for hand routering jobs (plunge)..and should not be glued in place...

To me it's like the guy that can up with the plastic clip for bread bag (wrapper ) and many still use the wire tie that must be removed if you want to warm the bread up in the mirowave .. it's just a new way to get it done,, and take adavage of the matched router bit sets..and many other router bits..


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harrysin said:


> I'm at present seeking information regarding Bj's method from the dept. of mechanical engineering at the University of Western Australia and will advise you of the answer I get. In the meantime, an Opinion I was given by an engineering lab. technician in the mech. eng. dept. was that in his OPINION, there would be no safety issues at all, the only possible downside, and it would be negligible, would be slight extra stress on the collet and bearing due to the extra leverage that the extended cutter would produce, given the same pressure against the cutter. Watch this space.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

Mike said:


> Once again I must mention that the washer goes into the bottom of the shaft, not in the collet. The method BJ mentions is his own and against the directions of all manufacturers and experts.


My PC890 measures about 2.2" from the bottom of the hole to the tip of the collet. A washer in the bottom is going to be an inch shy of the bit.

With nearly all the clamping happening at the tip of the collet Bob's idea seems mechanically sound and isn't going to make a difference in how deep some short shanked bits engage the collet.

I like it.


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

"How do you get the bit back to the same depth in the collet with sufficient accuracy where it matters (a couple mils show up in how well a lock miter joint lines up) or do you run the bit down so its top is level with the insert and zero things out there? With 1/32"? per revolution on the crank how bad is that?"

Drew,

With a gigital lift, I doesn't matter where the bit ends up in the collet. Just cover the hole in the bit opening on the top of your table with a flat plate, then raise the bit till it just touches the bottom of your plate. This is the starting point. Then zero the digital readout. After you adjust the cutting height to perfect, just write the digital readout number down for resetting in the future. Any time you want to return to that set up, just zero the bit in the opening and zero the readout, then crank it up till you get to the numbert you have recorded. It is faster to do than to explain. Also with Summerfelds matched sets I bottom the bits out to their rubber gromet in the bottom of the router chuck. Then when you interchenge bits back and forth they match, (like tongue and groove or rail and stile). I also write down the digital settings so if I have to change heights using another bit or operation, I can return to the original setting easily and drop the bit in bottoming it out on the rubber gromet. It saves time and makes it easy to repeat setups.


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

Drew Eckhardt said:


> My PC890 measures about 2.2" from the bottom of the hole to the tip of the collet. A washer in the bottom is going to be an inch shy of the bit.
> 
> With nearly all the clamping happening at the tip of the collet Bob's idea seems mechanically sound and isn't going to make a difference in how deep some short shanked bits engage the collet.
> 
> I like it.


Drew, If your bit doesn't reach the bottom and sit on you rubber washer, you can add piece of half inch dowel to make up the difference. I have a couple cut for different bit sets. I just make sure most of the bit shaft is in the chuck.


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

Drew, 

FYI I just looked and jointec lifts are on sale for 259.00 till the end of october. I may get one for my other table. Also I use the "Eliminator Chuck" with a T-handle round nosed hex wrench. Usually I can change bits without moving the router at all and it's easier than using wrenches. It is about 60 bucks though...


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