# Router Turning



## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Hi All

Attached are a few pictures taken of a router turning contraption that I came up with to help with some of my projects. Parts of the idea came from Router Magic, Shop Notes Magazine and watching a demonstration from Legacy Milling Machines at one of the Woodworking shows a few years back. The rest came from my own trial and error and a little time.

My intent in presenting these pictures is to give ideas which might help someone develop their woodworking skill and in general just have more fun creating with the use of a router. I will attempt to answer any questions from anyone intrested in creating their version of this jig.
PS
An earlier version of the jig was used to create the bed entered in the Holiday contest


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Turning Contraption is the right name for it Dick but the results are great. Perhaps you can post more photos of the device with explanations of how you built it?


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## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

Mike said:


> Turning Contraption is the right name for it Dick but the results are great. Perhaps you can post more photos of the device with explanations of how you built it?


That would be amazing to see some information on how you built such a neat creation. Very cool Dick, thanks a lot for sharing this


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

*Wooden gears location.*



dick in ia said:


> Hi All
> 
> Attached are a few pictures taken of a router turning contraption that I came up with to help with some of my projects. Parts of the idea came from Router Magic, Shop Notes Magazine and watching a demonstration from Legacy Milling Machines at one of the Woodworking shows a few years back. The rest came from my own trial and error and a little time.
> 
> ...


I think this is your chrismast gift from you to all of us, Dick. Your intent has been reached when you kindly post all those pictures. I saw a video from ShopNotes 115 milling machine but I can't find the positions for the wooden gears at the end of it. Are you able to share yours?

Merry Christmast for you and your beloved family.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I nominate Dick for the "Router contraption of the year" award!!  cool beans!


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## tbear7672 (Jan 4, 2012)

*Wow!*



dick in ia said:


> Hi All
> 
> Attached are a few pictures taken of a router turning contraption that I came up with to help with some of my projects. Parts of the idea came from Router Magic, Shop Notes Magazine and watching a demonstration from Legacy Milling Machines at one of the Woodworking shows a few years back. The rest came from my own trial and error and a little time.
> 
> ...


WOW! I have seen several commercial machines that looked like they would do some of what your CONTRAPTION seems able to accomplish! My wife (I married well above my station in life and got I wife much better than I deserve) suprised with a Legacy WoodWorking Machine for Christmas a few years back and it is seems to be the all-steel version of your CONTRAPTION->she wanted me to make some Cremation urns with it...which it does quite well. GREAT WORK!:no:


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

That's awesome Dick. Does it follow a taper automatically when cranking?


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## gene3521 (Jan 22, 2009)

*Super Impressive*

*​*
Great job. Have you thought about offering plans for sale?
I for one would be happy to pay for plans to enable building
one. First post I believe although I have been following the
forum and have been involved with Router Workshop for
quite a while. Hope you will think about plans offering as
I believe many people on the forum would purchase.
Thanks- Gene


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## jimini2001 (Mar 28, 2010)

I gotta build me one of these. I am sure a few of us would like to have one of these. I agree with twoskies57 "contraption of the year". I have an old lathe that I think will get me started. Dick I know it is a pain and time consuming but could you give us some more photos and maybe some measurements? With a little help I will build one of your contraptions. Thanks for sharing.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

VERY Impressive!!!! I used to have the Shopnotes version of your Contraption of the Year bookmarked, and I very much hope to someday soon build one of my own. I am greatly inspired by your work, and the work of your daughter and son. You are truly blessed to have such a family, and your grandson is clearly on the right path!


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## Rick in Pittsburgh (Jun 23, 2009)

Nice Job. I too would like to see more on how you built it.

Thanks for sharing


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## senior guy (Nov 9, 2011)

Wow! Dick you have made an amazing machine. I envy your talent.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

*A little more info on the contraption*

I didn't see any comments about the contraption for a few days until now. Thanks Mark for the compliments in the news E-mail, I thank that it has stirred up more intrest. I thought that I would share a few more pictures of the contraption’s capabilities and possibly a little info which might help anyone interested. Thus far, I have no drawings as to just how the construction occurred. Purchacing a Lagacy mill was not in the cards when I started making the contraption. Much of it was done as a matter of necessity for a specific project that I was working on. If enough interest exists, I can make drawings. (later---time will not permit until some other priorities are completed)
Below is a picture of one of the chairs with the first coat of finish.














I have also included a picture of the rounded portion of the bottom riser as shown in the stair pictures just to show how it was made



























As to some of the further capabilities----
I can attach a pattern to the back of the machine and with a follower duplicate simple designs. I can also make rosettes using the machine. A friend gave me a challenge with the rosettes and asked if I could make them spiral. (done)
Just for fun, attached are pictures of the attachment made for rosettes















Next week, I will demonstrate the use of the contraption to our Woodworking club (Cedarvalleywoodworkers.com) and may attempt to edit some videos taken to post on U-tube.


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## alaskagypsy (Jan 31, 2009)

I want one. Would love plans on building one. Great job!


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## mbr72cnc (Feb 15, 2010)

That is so cool nice machine please share your design


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## retiredandtired (Jul 11, 2011)

*router turning*

Great job. Wish I had one. 
retiredandtired


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## Stan M (Sep 4, 2009)

Here's a similar one from shop notes (demo video):

http://www.shopnotes.com/issues/115/videos/router-milling-machine-video


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

Boy if that doesn't get you to want to get out in the shop nothing will.


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

*Your Contrapsion*

Dick,

This is just the kind of machine that I have been looking for.

I would appreciate any information that you are willing to share on its design and construction. I really want to make one of these machines!

Elrod


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

I thought that I should spend a few minutes and describe briefly just how the contraption works. I would suggest looking at the Shop Notes video before reading further. Stan: thanks for your post on the Shop Notes video. I had forgotten that it existed. The video demonstrates more eloquently than I ever could just how their milling machine and how my router turning contraption work.
I utilized some of the shop notes ideas including their plywood gearing system. The base of my contraption originally started as a home-made lathe which was needed to make a bed (entered in the holiday-contest) and utilized either a router or normal lathe tools for turning. Like they say “necessity is the mother of invention”. Even in the original version, I made it so that the tail stock could be raised to cut a taper. After seeing the Shop Notes Magazine and reading the Router Magic book, I came up with my design. The router rides along a track consisting of 2- 1 ½” conduits. I used patio door rollers to provide an inexpensive and smooth movement along the track. McMaster-Carr provided the acme thread for the lead screws, brass bearings and nuts used to move the router (cost $82.06). The “X” axis utilizes a 1”- 5 tpi. shaft and the “Y“and “Z” utilizes a 5/8” -8 tpi. shaft. For the “Y” and “Z” axis, 1-rev of the shaft= 1/8” movement of the router. I also purchased some cheap bearings to better support the gearing from Ace Hardware. All in all, I might have $150.00 to $200.00 in everything (including mistakes and rework). For storage, the entire assembly can be taken apart. Space within my shop, like most of you, is at a premium.
I can still utelize a motor and standard lathe tools to turn all or portions of an object. This also makes the sanding bunches easier. Being the lazy person that I am and seeing just how many turns of the crank it took to turn an item, I quickly added another gear and shaft so that I could use my cordless drill to do the turning. Just to give an idea of the gearing that I used, for rounding a square, one turn of the spindle will move the router 7/16” along the “X” axis. On the other extreme, if I were to cut a hollow spiral, I would change the gearing so that one turn of the spindle would move the router 9 9/16”. Any movement is possible, just depending upon the gearing that is used. Thus far the only down-side of the contraption is the speed that it trashes my shop. It seems to take as long to clean up after using the contraption as it takes making a spindle (LOL). All kidding aside, I have had a lot of fun both in the construction of the turning contraption and in using it.
I’ll try to answer any questions you might have---don’t be shy----the only question that you might regret is the one that is not asked.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

I have been looking at making one for a while but like you Dick, at this minute I cannot find the time, I would like to see the jig you used to make the ply gears, NGM


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Neville, I used the gears that Shop Notes provided for use in their jig. Shop Notes had patterns within the magazine and also had some instructions on line for the jig construction, I did have some trouble with the gears mashing properly and had to do a lot of final fitting to get them to work. I also have heard (via the grape vine) that Shop Notes had or had some full size sheet patterns that they would mail out. Note that due to the wood construction and my lack of accuracy, and the amount of back-lash, when using the machine I would recommend making all cuts in one direction.
At this point, if I were to make a new set of gears, I would consider going to Woodworking for engineers and using his wooden gears program.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I have been looking for a forum to talk about the Shopnotes Spiral router milling machine that I built from their plans. I have attached some pictures of this machine with a sample project mounted in it. I got the plans out of the December 2010 Shopnotes milling machine. Although I downloaded the templates for the gears from their website, I did not use them in the manufacture of this machine.

Instead, I used the gear design software from Mastercam, and I machined the gears on my Techno-Isel cnc router, which produced accurate smooth running gears with practically no backlash. The Shopnotes plans show only 2 hole locations in the end plates. After designing the gears, I learned what their diametral pitches were, and also their pitch diameters. From this information, I was able to find their accurate hole locations on the machine end plates. The Shopnotes plans did not allow for locations of idler gears to reverse spiral rotations. You can observe from the sample project that I did this.

I felt that the amount of work invested in this project should warrant the use of baltic birch plywood throughout the project instead of MDF. I bought 2 four by eight foot sheets for about 75 dollars a sheet.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Very nice Bruce.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

To Dick in IA:
Thank you for your thread, it was what I was looking for to open discussion on my Shopnotes Spiral Router Milling Machine.


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## plouf (Jan 8, 2012)

Hi,



Mark said:


> That would be amazing to see some information on how you built such a neat creation. Very cool Dick, thanks a lot for sharing this


I agree. It would be very nice to see a bit of the process indeed! What a superb project you presented here, Dick!

- plouf -


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Fantastic job Bruce
I loved seeing the finished pictures of your router milling machine. Your mill looks so neat compaired to the one that I made. I just used the materials on hand and wasn't planning to display any part of it. What type of projects have you made thus far utelizing the mill? Pictures would be nice. The gears that you created would be a major improvement over what I did. Thanks for posting the pictures.

Dick


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## retiredandtired (Jul 11, 2011)

Great wood skils in your hands. Wish I had one.
David


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

brucenelson said:


> I have been looking for a forum to talk about the Shopnotes Spiral router milling machine that I built from their plans. I have attached some pictures of this machine with a sample project mounted in it. I got the plans out of the December 2010 Shopnotes milling machine. Although I downloaded the templates for the gears from their website, I did not use them in the manufacture of this machine.
> 
> Instead, I used the gear design software from Mastercam, and I machined the gears on my Techno-Isel cnc router, which produced accurate smooth running gears with practically no backlash. The Shopnotes plans show only 2 hole locations in the end plates. After designing the gears, I learned what their diametral pitches were, and also their pitch diameters. From this information, I was able to find their accurate hole locations on the machine end plates. The Shopnotes plans did not allow for locations of idler gears to reverse spiral rotations. You can observe from the sample project that I did this.
> 
> I felt that the amount of work invested in this project should warrant the use of baltic birch plywood throughout the project instead of MDF. I bought 2 four by eight foot sheets for about 75 dollars a sheet.


 Ok how long did it take you to build your milling machine? What project are you working on now that you are using the milling machine for?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Bruce,

It would be great if you could provide some sketches or prints with dimensions and pictures showing your modifications to the ShopNotes jig above and beyond what they have done. It's obvious from your pictures that you have added many more holes to the end board, and probably made some additional gears. I have been gathering the parts to build one and would like to add more capability to it as I go. I'm sure that others would be very grateful if you provided this too. You might also consider contacting ShopNotes about adding your features as they might be interested in publishing a second article about their jig.

Charley


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

This machine is shaping up to be as famous as when Harry became a ski instructor and all the ski bunnies were checking us out.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

What seems like extra holes in the spiral router jig end plates is one extra hole for each gear combination for different leads in the spirals. These holes are to add an idler gear for providing a reverse spiral for each gear combination. An improvement for these extra holes would be to make the end plate one inch higher to accommodate the extra hole spacing. Another improvement that I made is to make the whole machine 8 inches longer to accommodate 48 inch spindles. Another improvement that I made is to make the mounting for the router to slide sideways 2 inches each side of the center line. This allows machining of square portions on the spindles, and machining mortises in these square portions. I have the x any y locations of the holes in the end plates, and the exact dimensions of the gears. I will not post this information on this forum, but will provide it to anyone who e-mails me; identifying yourself and where you are located, and how you will be utilizing this information. As far as contacting ShopNotes magazine and furnishing them with this information; I tried to do this, but they did not respond with any interest. It doesn't appear to me that they have any mechanism to serve as a forum for subscribers who complete their projects. As a matter of fact, I have had difficulty finding any forum that was interested.

That said, I will probably make another spiral router jig, incorporating the taller end plates, improved sliding surfaces on the router carriage, improved spindle with a #2 morse taper and a threaded spindle nose to accommodate lathe chucks. I also intend to add digital readouts for all 3 axes, as it is difficult to make lengthwise and diameter settings using the stick on scales alone.

I have found out that this machine is more robust than it appears in the ShopNotes video. Turning cuts at least 1/4 inch is depth and 7/8 inch in width were accomplished easily. This makes the machine to approach production capabilities.


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

Bruce you hit on something I was wondering about. The lack of talk about the machine on shop notes. One could speculate that a commercial interest has bought the machine and trying for a patent.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Mike said:


> Turning Contraption is the right name for it Dick but the results are great. Perhaps you can post more photos of the device with explanations of how you built it?


Hi Mike:

That contraption is called a router lathe. There are a variety of them available commercially. The best and simplest that I've found are in the book "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton. He uses a bicycle chain and sprokets to reduce slipping and stretching.

The superlative is the ornamental turning and the superlative in that world is the Holtzapffel lathes. You wouldn't believe some of the decorative stuff that can be done with one of those.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Mike:
> 
> That contraption is called a router lathe. There are a variety of them available commercially. The best and simplest that I've found are in the book "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton. He uses a bicycle chain and sprokets to reduce slipping and stretching.
> 
> The superlative is the ornamental turning and the superlative in that world is the Holtzapffel lathes. You wouldn't believe some of the decorative stuff that can be done with one of those.


Ron, where are the commercial router lathes available? It seemed to me that they all disappeared from the market several years ago.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mftha said:


> Ron, where are the commercial router lathes available? It seemed to me that they all disappeared from the market several years ago.


Hi Tom:

The dominant one that I've been able to find is the Legacy. Legacy Ornamental Mill There used to be a member of this forum named Galturner that uses one. She showed some of her work with it on this forum and certain of the membership were less than kind. 

There's still a bunch of Sear's versions kicking around. I see guys picking them up on this forum from time to time. It might be possible to still buy them through Trend. I'm not sure if they have the old inventory in the US, Canada or England.

BTW, Bruce's implementation is nicely done. What's better is he took a method and showed the product, not just the jig -- a fault I'm too often guilty of.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

The Legacy Ornamental Mill has gone the CNC route a few years back and the price has drasticly increaced making it out ofmy reach. The sears router turning didn't seem to be substantial in construction and has been out of production for quite some time. When I started on this project, I had a need within a specific project that I was building and built the jig to satisfy my needs. It has worked out quite will.

Dick


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

dick in ia said:


> The Legacy Ornamental Mill has gone the CNC route a few years back and the price has drasticly increaced making it out ofmy reach. The sears router turning didn't seem to be substantial in construction and has been out of production for quite some time. When I started on this project, I had a need within a specific project that I was building and built the jig to satisfy my needs. It has worked out quite will.
> 
> Dick


Dick I think you hit on one of the reasons why I was willing to open my wallet to build the shop notes mill. And not willing to spend on a cnc type unit. You add in the high cost of electricity out here on the island the cost is even more. 
So unless you had a good business to support these expenses It is not for me. Also in a residential neighbor hood the neighbors would get upset.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

dick in ia said:


> The Legacy Ornamental Mill has gone the CNC route a few years back and the price has drasticly increaced making it out ofmy reach. The sears router turning didn't seem to be substantial in construction and has been out of production for quite some time. When I started on this project, I had a need within a specific project that I was building and built the jig to satisfy my needs. It has worked out quite will.
> 
> Dick


Hey, Dick. 

It looks like you broke the ice with your "... need for specific project..." Thanks to the 2011 conquest all of us knew about your contraption machine. Good for you!!!!


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## otherguy (Jan 19, 2012)

awesome looking jigs, been looking at doing one.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

dick in ia said:


> Neville, I used the gears that Shop Notes provided for use in their jig. Shop Notes had patterns within the magazine and also had some instructions on line for the jig construction, I did have some trouble with the gears mashing properly and had to do a lot of final fitting to get them to work. I also have heard (via the grape vine) that Shop Notes had or had some full size sheet patterns that they would mail out. Note that due to the wood construction and my lack of accuracy, and the amount of back-lash, when using the machine I would recommend making all cuts in one direction.
> At this point, if I were to make a new set of gears, I would consider going to Woodworking for engineers and using his wooden gears program.


Dick, Living here in Australia then there are things from the USA that I don't see, this does not mean that I am not damn impressed with a lot of things American, I admire much of what I see of "Federal Furniture" as well as all hand made chairs of the "Windsor" and Ladder Back styles as well as Green Wood Chairs but I just don't have the time to see as much as I would like to see, I assume that the "Shop Notes" you refer to is a US magazine, if so, then it is one that I have not seen, I am not surprised that you had issues with the ply gears, I can think of a few things that they may have been, I have a copy of "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton, it is where I first saw the Router Lathe and I will make one to do Spiral Fluting of Spindles, Bill, he uses gears from a push bike, I have made several Indexing wheels for normal lathe use and they are accurate and do work, it seems to me that to make those ply gears then you would need an indexing wheel on the jig that was used to cut the teeth or they would not turn smoothly, I understand fully the issue of indexing wheels and the relationship of the teeth size to the diameter of the finished wheel so I could not see how an accurate ply gear could be made if an indexing wheel was not part of the jig, that is why I wanted to see the jig, I could see that the photo of the Router lathe was missing the drive gear that controlled the movement of the router sled, I assumed that is had been removed at the time the photo was taken, like everyone who has commented about your contraption, I would like to see some detailed photo's of how you did it, until then I do think that you have done what a lot of us have not yet done so well done to you, my interest in the Router Lathe is more about Spiral Fluting on compound shapes like "Urn Shaped Sections" of Table columns and legs, I haven't been able to slend the time yet but I cannot see why it could not be done, Neville


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

this reply is primarily for Neville and Aaren, although it appears as though I have stirred the interest of many on this thread. I can turn a 14" diameter spindle up to 52" long. 
To start off, if I were to remake the gears again, I would go to Gear template generator and purchace the program.
By looking at his setup, it appears that "Shop Notes" used the following: Angle = 20; and pitch = 23mm. For those who don't have access to the magazine, they used gears of 10 tooth, 20 tooth, 30 tooth and 40 tooth. All of the gears that I made were cut out with a band saw and filed as needed to fit.
The pictures below will show 3 of the gearing arrangements that I used. (other ratios are also utilized)























To do any fluting, the spindle is locked and actual rotation is accomplished via an indexing pin.







I have found it easier to disengauge the lead screw for straight line fluting














Just for visualization, I have attached a few more pictures of various shapes




















I hope that you will find this information helpful. If you are truly interested in making something similar, it might be better to send me a private e-mail then to clutter up the works on the forum??


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

I am impressed to see that you are looking at the comments on your machine, I have copied the images of the gears and I will look at them however for now, I have a system of making very accurate ply indexing wheels, normally I use 9 or 11 stations and that system could be used to make an indexing wheel with any number of stations so by using that, as well as a cutting jig then I can see no reason why perfectly circular gears with perfectly set teeth cannot be made out of ply with any number of teeth, like 29 or 65, or any number, it would work with all teeth settings, for now I will look at the images that I do have of your machine, feel free to email me if you want to, NGM


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I have designed and machined a complete set of gears for right and left hand spirals for the ShopNotes Spiral Router jig with a CAD/CAM system. I used a diametral pitch of 3.5 and a 14 1/2 degree pressure angle. I used this information to determine the pitch diameter of each gear required. I determined the proper hole location for the gears by drawing the gears so that when they are in mesh their pitch diameters are tangent to each other meshing gear.


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## sgmbur (Nov 10, 2011)

Great photos, Great work, Thanks for sharing.
Charles Burton


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> I have designed and machined a complete set of gears for right and left hand spirals for the ShopNotes Spiral Router jig with a CAD/CAM system. I used a diametral pitch of 3.5 and a 14 1/2 degree pressure angle. I used this information to determine the pitch diameter of each gear required. I determined the proper hole location for the gears by drawing the gears so that when they are in mesh their pitch diameters are tangent to each other meshing gear.


I've been messing around with programing the gears to cut them on my cnc but it will probably take me forever to get them drawn, I have too many things to do. This will be a toy and my wife thinks every thing else comes first. She's right, she's always right,she told me so.

Good job on the machine.
Mike


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## The Warthog (Nov 29, 2010)

Impressive! I recently bought a router lathe, but it seems to be limited to one turn in 7". Yours is much more versatile.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

The Warthog said:


> Impressive! I recently bought a router lathe, but it seems to be limited to one turn in 7". Yours is much more versatile.


Hi Roger:

Which one did you buy and where did you find it?

The Trend-based ones (Sears Craftsman) use 8" spirals. I don't know about the others. Bill Hylton's "Router Magic" version is adjustable. You merely change out the sprockets and cogs. The Legacys advertise Spiral Pitches of 2", 3", 4", 4 1/2", 5", 6", & 7 1/2" per rotation.

Every implementation is slightly different but they all are based on changing the size of the drive hub.

HTH


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Can Someone say which edition of "Shop Notes" has the details regarding the Router Lathe Gears... NGM


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

neville9999 said:


> Can Someone say which edition of "Shop Notes" has the details regarding the Router Lathe Gears... NGM


Shop notes Issue 115.

online videos
ShopNotes Magazine - Router Milling Machine Video - Video Online Extra

online patterns for gears
ShopNotes Magazine - Milling Machine Patterns and Setup - Extra


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

For a possibility to make machine cut gears, look at the website: woodgears.ca, and choose pantorouter. This lets you route accurate shapes from a template. If you make a template of a single gear tooth, as per their instructions, you could machine a accurate copy of the tooth on a gear blank. You will need to provide an accurate method for indexing the blank to machine subsequent teeth, but that is a minor problem.

It will require some minor modifications to this machine, such as a means to mount the gear blank in a vertical position, and also a means of accurately indexing the gear blank for each gear tooth.

In order to make accurate an accurate gear tooth template, you could use the ShopNotes templates as patterns. But you will need to scale them up double size.

This PantoRouter would be a fine addition to anybody's shop. I don't know of any commercially available machine that has it's capabilities. It would make the ideal shop mate to the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bruce

" I don't know of any commercially available machine that has it's capabilities."

Here's one . for _JFYI _

Legacy Ornamental Mill

Legacy Ornamental Mill Demo Video - YouTube

Magnate

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Legacy-orna...034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27c22a6daa

==



brucenelson said:


> For a possibility to make machine cut gears, look at the website: woodgears.ca, and choose pantorouter. This lets you route accurate shapes from a template. If you make a template of a single gear tooth, as per their instructions, you could machine a accurate copy of the tooth on a gear blank. You will need to provide an accurate method for indexing the blank to machine subsequent teeth, but that is a minor problem.
> 
> It will require some minor modifications to this machine, such as a means to mount the gear blank in a vertical position, and also a means of accurately indexing the gear blank for each gear tooth.
> 
> ...


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Bob:

I realize that the Legacy system has similar capabilities to the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine. What I was referring to was the Woodgears Pantorouter. If you have information about a commercial machine that has the same capabilities as the Pantorouter, I would like to be steered toward the source. I have looked at the Legacy videos, and they do not have the same capability as the Pantorouter. I would recommend that you look at the pantorouter demonstration videos and consider it's possibilities. I am seriously considering building one of these. It looks like this machine can fit my purposes without modification. My purposes are to build the Baltic Birch plywood gears for the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine. When I built my ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine, I machined the gears on my CNC router. This method of making the gears was entirely satisfactory, but is not available to the ordinary woodworker. I would like to prove that there is another method of making machine cut gears accurately, that would be available to the ordinary woodworker, which would involve the building of this Pantorouter. Plus, it can be built from scrap pieces of Baltic Birch plywood that I have laying around, and therefore the cost would be minimal.

Bruce


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bruce

I will agree the ShopNotes fixture is a great one I love shop made jigs/fixtures 

The new CNC Legacy can do it all but not put the butter on the bread  but it sure can slice it.. 

I'm from the old school I use the WoodCanDo and the Craftsman that can do many of same jobs as the ShopNotes one..for about 1/10 the price..

Diff. strokes for Diff. folks 


===



brucenelson said:


> Bob:
> 
> I realize that the Legacy system has similar capabilities to the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine. What I was referring to the Woodgears Pantorouter. If you have information about a commercial machine that has the same capabilities as the Pantorouter, I would like to be steered toward the source. I have looked at the Legacy videos, and they do not have the same capability as the Pantorouter. I would recommend that you look at their demonstration videos. I am seriously considering building one of these. It looks like this machine can fit my purposes without modification. Plus, it can be built from scraps of Baltic Birch plywood that I have laying around.
> 
> Bruce


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Bruce
> 
> The new CNC Legacy can do it all but not put the butter on the bread  but it sure can slice it..
> 
> ...


Bob:

I wonder if we are talking about the same thing. What causes me to think this is that you compare the WoodCanDo (which I know nothing about) and the Craftsman to the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine for about 1/10th the price. This statement does not make any sense,and I think that this comparison is without merit, as the ShopNotes machine can be built for the cost of the materials alone.

I just got done searching the web for WoodCanDo, and found that their web site is in Polish, or some east european language that I cannot read. There is nothing on this forum that responds to WoodCanDo. I also looked at the Woodsmith sites for the videos, and I found nothing there that pertained. The youtube video was about a wild bear. Methinks that you are messing with me. Can you give us a picture of the WoodCanDo machine and explain how it operates?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

See PDF file(s) below

" Methinks that you are messing with me " I would not do that.
I just can't spell very well  or to say recall names very well.

new CNC tool by Legacy ▼ ▼ ▼
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKu6OC47Qv8&feature=related
===



brucenelson said:


> Bob:
> 
> I wonder if we are talking about the same thing. What causes me to think this is that you compare the WoodCanDo (which I know nothing about) and the Craftsman to the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine for about 1/10th the price. This statement does not make any sense,and I think that this comparison is without merit, as the ShopNotes machine can be built for the cost of the materials alone.
> 
> I just got done searching the web for WoodCanDo, and found that their web site is in Polish, or some east european language that I cannot read. There is nothing on this forum that responds to WoodCanDo. I also looked at the Woodsmith sites for the videos, and I found nothing there that pertained. The youtube video was about a wild bear. Methinks that you are messing with me. Can you give us a picture of the WoodCanDo machine and explain how it operates?


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

dick in ia said:


> My intent in presenting these pictures is to give ideas which might help someone develop their woodworking skill and in general just have more fun creating with the use of a router.


Dick,

Many thanks to you for starting this thread. Working my way through it helps me better understand what people have been talking about when they are taliing about routing & turning at the same time. In that regard, your stated intent has been achieved, at least in my case...

As to your contraption, it is certainly a gadget to behold! Whether measured in terms of it's appearance and function, or in terms of the output it produces, the result is awe inspiring to those who dabble the crafts.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Dear Bruce..., I knew about the "Router Forums" web site for a while but I was not posting any comments, I was logging on and looking from time to time, Dick's "contraption" made me look a lot closer, someone posted, (even though you can build a thing it doesn't mean that you should build it) here in Australia I have met some enthusiasts who build "Rose Engines" and the machines are very complex, so I also admire their work as well as all the commitment the constructors have, the way you get better at building anything is to do it a few times, then you see "better ways of making them", so, you can only get a better "Rose Engine" and that could also read as a better "Router Lathe", by building them, I can see that guy will not make one, Dick is correct when he said that he makes a jig to do a job, that naysayer clearly can think of "no job that he can do with a Router Lathe". I can think of a few, and I am a "professional cabinetmaker" who also turns wood on a normal lathe with Skew and Spindle Gouge, I also have an open bottomed box with an indexing wheel so I can put spindles or table legs and columns into it and then rotate them over a cutter on my "Router Table", this works well and I can use it to do fluting on any “straight” or “tapered” spindle but I cannot do complex spiral flutes with it, it is also the second box I have made yet I now have to make a new one as I can see a better way to do that as well. I have not yet gone to the "woodgears.ca" site but I will, this Pantorouter that you admire looks to me to be "worth looking at", I will also try to track down Issue 115 of "Shop Notes" so thanks for doing that, people who care about furniture making “post help”, and only “a naysayer” will post negative comments. From over here I can see that you guys have a wealth of books and magazines that are not sold here and I would be happy to have some of them, I always wanted some of Michael Dunbar's books but there are only a very few of them here so when I get time I will now look on US book sites for them but me doing that would never get me those "Shop Notes" editions, I get the feeling that I would be happy to read them all. I think that Dick said that he cut his gears on a Bandsaw and then modified them by hand, when I have any problem like that then I always think "Router" first. You are 100% correct, I have been thinking about this "Ply Gear" issue and I can see a very clear way to make very accurate ply gears, one tooth at a time, and using an indexing wheel to get all the teeth in the proper place, the gear also needs to finish "an exact circle", that is also the “correct circumference” for a gear with that many teeth, two jigs could be used to make gears with “any number of teeth”, one to make the indexing wheel you need for that gear and the other to cut the teeth on “any gear”, it would not involve any complex setting out either, just make the correct indexing wheel, put it onto the "slightly oversize ply blank" then into the cutting jig, slide the assembly into and under the tooth profile until the cut will leave the correct radius for a gear with that many teeth, then one by one cut them with the router as you rotate the new gear under the template, it will work. A few persons have written what I did, that Bill Hylton used a bicycle chain and gears but I can see some “pitch” benefits for me to set up, and make “ply gears” but I am yet to decide which way to go, you guys have “added” to what I was thinking so thanks to you all for that. I would personally never use a "Router Lathe" to turn any spindle, I would turn it on the “Wood Lathe” but I do use my "Router Table Box" to quickly standardize the dimensions of certain areas of my work. However, when I have the time then I will build a "Router Lathe" along the lines of the ones that both Dick and Mike, and others including you, have made, (I would like to see your “Router Lathe” by the way), my interest is to be able to cut spiral flutes on three dimensional "urn shapes" that are part of a table column, after I make the Router Lathe then all I need to do is make a "different sled" one that will fit onto the Router Lathe, this sled will hold, "horizontally", and “under the sled”, a high speed Die Grinder on a gimbal mount, that tool will do the cut as the indexed column rotates, it does not look to be possible to do the cut from the “top” due to “Up and Down” issues but I think that it can be done by thinking “In and out” and, “from the side”, I want to have a pitch where the flutes turns only a third to a half a rotation in a sled travel of 300mm, the PDF you posted has shown me that I will need a pitch of, maybe around 1:70 as I want to have a slow long spiral (I will have to test that), looking at the “Rose Engine’s” and at your “Router Lathes” has shown me that I can see no reason why it will not work, all I have to do is first find the time. 

May God protect and keep the soul of Sam Malouf, a man who understood that making anything, is possible. NGM


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*Source for ShopNotes drawings and videos*

Neville:

GregW gave you internet sources for the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine and videos in his 1/26/12 response to you at 01:44 pm in his post #50. You should get a overview of the machine by perusing these sources. These sources do not give you drawings and dimensions for making this machine. The only way that I know of to get the drawings is to contact ShopNotes Magazine to order the appropriate issue. These drawings as well as the pdf files that GregW told you about should give you the information necessary to make the machine. The number of this issue is #115 from Volume 20. The date of the issue is January/February 2011.

Bruce


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Neville:

My bicycle chain suggestion came from Bill Hylton's book "Router Magic." You should be able to find used versions in Oz. Well worth the look. I like the bicycle chain solution because I have a broad selection of used chainrings and cogs from years of repairing my bicycles. 

The router lathe has to take a lower position on the priority list. I have to build a ski table next. That said, I'm studying and learning everything I can in order to select "the best" solution for any job I might run into. 

You might also look at the pivot frame. It is the flat stock "rose machine' of routers. That when combined with an angled base presents some remarkable possibilities. I'm trying to figure out how to combine the pivot frame and angler with the router lathe and see what is possible.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

For all of you who have been following this thread.

In starting this thread I wanted to show everyone interested that a person can make a rather simple jig to utilize a router to turn many items, some sophisticated and others quite simple. The jig that I made utilizes items available in every community around the world and can be assembled in a way to accommodate almost any size of spindle desired. In doing all of this, I wanted to make something that was within the price range of most of us hobby woodworkers. My work is not original but utilizes ideas incorporated by others. All of this has been stated more than once in the thread. I wanted to provide enough information that anyone with a true desire could make such a jig to their own standards.

As time has gone on, I have been following most of the comments relating to gears-----chain sprockets---cutting gears---etc. and in my humble opinion much of what I read is irrelevant toward actually constructing the jig. Quite the contrary, it would tend to discourage someone from attempting to make the jig. As we all know, anytime that you have gears, or gears (sprockets) tied together with chains some amount of backlash will exist. With wood gears cut by hand, the amount of backlash will be far greater than those cut from metal with proper gear cutting equipment. Sounds obvious, but totally irrelevant as long as one starts moving the router and creates the cut running in the same direction every time. The results of the backlash deviation is eliminated. I would like to see others use their imagination and take what I have done and come up with something even better. Shop made jigs don't have to break the bank to do the job at hand. They don't have to be beautiful, painted, or even look pretty, but just need to do the intended job efficiently. 

To sum it all up-----If you have an idea of how to make a jig (any jig) to help you do a process more easily go for it! Give it a try. All that you have to loose is a little time but you might gain considerably in the long run and possibly even learn something along the way. 

I will enjoy looking at your comments. Sorry about the long winded rant.

Dick


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Dick:

Thanks for the rant. Spot On!

There are 25 methods involved in the use of routers. Jigs and fixtures are then applied to those methods. The router lathe is method number 12. So, the next step is to see what jigs you use in conjunction with the router lathe. For example, there is a baseplate that holds the router horizontally and can be used with the router lathe to "carve" irregular forms into the workpiece. There are jigs that apply to other methods as well.

Please continue your exploration of the router lathe and keep us apprised of your discoveries.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I would like to add this to my rant about the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine. Concerning backlash: In making this machine, I machined the gears and the end plates that the gears are mounted on on a CNC router. The gear locations on the end plates are within .002 of their theoretical locations, and the gears are machined with .005 intentional clearance (or backlash). I am a lifelong machinist and toolmaker, and I am very acquainted with the causes and effects of backlash. I make the following claim for this machine: YOU CAN MACHINE A SPIRAL GROOVE AND RUN THE TOOL BACK THROUGH THE GROOVE BY REVERSING THE ROTATION OF THE SCREW WITHOUT TAKING ANY APPRECIABLE CUT IN THE RETURN PATH CAUSED BY BACKLASH, AT LEAST NO MISALIGNMENT THAT WOULD BE OUTSIDE OF NORMAL CABINETMAKING TOLERANCES. I notice that this is not necessarily true for other spiral cutting machines discussed here.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

brucenelson said:


> Neville:
> 
> GregW gave you internet sources for the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine and videos in his 1/26/12 response to you at 01:44 pm in his post #50. You should get a overview of the machine by perusing these sources. These sources do not give you drawings and dimensions for making this machine. The only way that I know of to get the drawings is to contact ShopNotes Magazine to order the appropriate issue. These drawings as well as the pdf files that GregW told you about should give you the information necessary to make the machine. The number of this issue is #115 from Volume 20. The date of the issue is January/February 2011.
> 
> Bruce


Thanks for your answers Bruce, do post some photos of your router lathe sometime, at this point I think that I don't need and detailed plans as I have a good idea of what I need to build, still I will look at all the things that have been suggested, N


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Neville:
> 
> My bicycle chain suggestion came from Bill Hylton's book "Router Magic." You should be able to find used versions in Oz. Well worth the look. I like the bicycle chain solution because I have a broad selection of used chainrings and cogs from years of repairing my bicycles.
> 
> ...


 You are lucky to have the old gears, I looked at buying some bike gears and it turned out that it would be cheaper if I bought the whole bike and then pulled it apart and then kept the gears and dumped the rest of the bike, I have at least one clear idea about my custom sled idea to do the complex 3D spiral flutes that I think will work, I also have a belief that if I put that sled onto a router lathe with a slow rotation then I can get the slow flute I want still, I have seen the "pivot frame" type "Rose Engine", I did not consider a pivot frame attachment that would sit at the front of my work held inside and rotated by a "router lathe" type device and use that to hold a die grinder to cut into the side of the spindle, my initial thought is that it could also work and I should consider doing that as well, so I will think about that before I make a choice, at this minute I do think that a ply gear could be the best way to rotate my column, I would not make it to do all of the pitches that the "Shop Notes" PDF suggested as I only want a slow turn, but I do think that a combination of these things will give me a working device, NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

dick in ia said:


> For all of you who have been following this thread.
> 
> In starting this thread I wanted to show everyone interested that a person can make a rather simple jig to utilize a router to turn many items, some sophisticated and others quite simple. The jig that I made utilizes items available in every community around the world and can be assembled in a way to accommodate almost any size of spindle desired. In doing all of this, I wanted to make something that was within the price range of most of us hobby woodworkers. My work is not original but utilizes ideas incorporated by others. All of this has been stated more than once in the thread. I wanted to provide enough information that anyone with a true desire could make such a jig to their own standards.
> 
> ...


Dick I agree with every word you have written, NGM


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Dick.

Congratulations for your second place in tha 2011 contest!!!

I think that your post was the most interesting of all I saw inthis thread.

All the best for you and your relatives. 

Please keep posting pictures about your projects.


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## troutfish (Nov 20, 2011)

Man that is one cool contraption.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

I had to share a few pictures of the last improvements to the contraption. I got tired of sweeping the entire shop every time that I made anything and thus, an apron to help control the shavings. I also included a view of a couple of samples made on the turn table.

Thanks for all of the compliments. I have had a lot of fun in making this jig and am learning more of it's capabilities every time that it is used. 

Dick


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Thanks for the new pics Dick, with what I have seen on this thread then I am sure that I can make something that will do my spiral flutes. NGM


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## nascarnut1955 (Sep 30, 2004)

Really like the contraption, my son who is working in theatre building sets etc was asking me if i knew of anything he could use to make quick turnings for stage sets. this looks like the exact thing he needs, would love to have some measured drawings and materials list to build one
Roger


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

As of today, I haven't made any drawings of the contraption. The contraption developed by utelizing a number of ideas from others and adding a few of my own ideas. If enough intrest is shown, I would consider spending the time to make a set of drawings.

Dick


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

nascarnut1955 said:


> Really like the contraption, my son who is working in theatre building sets etc was asking me if i knew of anything he could use to make quick turnings for stage sets. this looks like the exact thing he needs, would love to have some measured drawings and materials list to build one
> Roger


Hi Roger:

Not to deflect from Dick's project but Bill Hylton's got several jigs and a router lathe in his book "router magic." Well worth the look. My copy came from a library so if your's doesn't have a copy maybe you can get one through inter-library loan.


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## nascarnut1955 (Sep 30, 2004)

i have the router magic book and have looked at it as well as the shopnotes one still like the router contraption more


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

nascarnut1955 said:


> i have the router magic book and have looked at it as well as the shopnotes one still like the router contraption more


Hi Roger:

Page 102 for the dowel-turning jig for straight cylinders and tapers and on page 269 you'll find the router lathe. This version uses bicycle chains and gears rather than wood gears. Same function, different implementation.

The router lathe is a method and there are a variety of jigs one can apply to it, i.e. the indexing turntable.

The dowel-turning jig is an ordinary jig and can be applied to a variety of methods, most notably, the pivot frame for decorating cylinders.


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## sgmbur (Nov 10, 2011)

I am working on my shop now and hoping to add your router turning contraption. Are the gears hard to make? I have a friend with a CNC that might cut them for me.
Look forward to seeing more of your stuff.
Charles


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Roger:
> 
> Not to deflect from Dick's project but Bill Hylton's got several jigs and a router lathe in his book "router magic." Well worth the look. My copy came from a library so if your's doesn't have a copy maybe you can get one through inter-library loan.


Though not as functional as the Router Contraption, the Router Lathe might be worth looking at, at least for further ideas.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I would be interrest in the drawings.
Larry (Woodie26)


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Noob said:


> Though not as functional as the Router Contraption, the Router Lathe might be worth looking at, at least for further ideas.


Hi Paolo:

Thanks for the upload. 

If you look carefully, you'll see all of the elements of the "contraption" are in the router lathe. The differences are size and the addition of the turntable jig.


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

How many other people are interested in getting the drawings for the "contraption"?

I for one would be willing to pay to help compensate for the time involved producing the plans.

I am sure that if they were listed on EBay with the pictures of what it will do you would get plenty of responses.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Me too


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

elrodqfudp said:


> How many other people are interested in getting the drawings for the "contraption"?


The drawings for the "chain" version are in "Router Magic" by Bill Hylton. The cable version is manufactured by Legacy in their models 900 and 1200. The wooden gear models are essentially the same as Bill Hylton but add wood gears from Woodworking for engineers by Matthias Wandel.



elrodqfudp said:


> I for one would be willing to pay to help compensate for the time involved producing the plans.


Which model, what size, how big a bed -- there are a variety of models available already. If you take a look at the Sears by Trend verson, it is very easy to copy.



elrodqfudp said:


> I
> I am sure that if they were listed on EBay with the pictures of what it will do you would get plenty of responses.


Read Bill's book. I refer you to the chapter on "Turning."


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Amazing that you ask for detailed plans that fit your specifications. The experts on this forum are generally not altruistic enough to provide this service for the great unwashed. If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, have enough interest to research the subject for your self and come up with your own detailed drawings and plans, and perhaps you will be generous enough to share them. You will probably gain a modicum of fame and notariety in the process. Otherwise, your quest will probably remain unfulfilled.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

brucenelson said:


> Amazing that you ask for detailed plans that fit your specifications. The experts on this forum are generally not altruistic enough to provide this service for the great unwashed. If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, have enough interest to research the subject for your self and come up with your own detailed drawings and plans, and perhaps you will be generous enough to share them. You will probably gain a modicum of fame and notariety in the process. Otherwise, your quest will probably remain unfulfilled.


For those members who would like a copy, Paulo has posted Bill Hylton's version in *.pdf format at this url:

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/32205-router-turning-2.html#post271785

It is complete plans, parts, assembly and implementation.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

It seems to me that the one Dick built can do more..
Larry


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Larry:



woodie26 said:


> It seems to me that the one Dick built can do more..
> Larry


Yes, but remember, there is a basic format for a router lathe and then jigs can be applied to that method. I can't see all of the options that Dick is using but one is the turntable. 

It is also possible to combine methods, i.e. a pivot frame with a router lathe or skis and angler.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

brucenelson said:


> Amazing that you ask for detailed plans that fit your specifications. The experts on this forum are generally not altruistic enough to provide this service for the great unwashed. If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, have enough interest to research the subject for your self and come up with your own detailed drawings and plans, and perhaps you will be generous enough to share them. You will probably gain a modicum of fame and notariety in the process. Otherwise, your quest will probably remain unfulfilled.


I would Just want drawings for the one like Dick built!:nhl_checking:


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I guess I'm just not good a figureing things like that out!
Larry


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Boy, I would give my frist born for drawings for the "contraption ! Been trying to figure it out, just end up with a head ache!


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

woodie26 said:


> Boy, I would give my frist born for drawings for the "contraption ! Been trying to figure it out, just end up with a head ache!


To Woody and all you guy that want plans, this machine is not that hard to make and you don't need plans, what you have to do is work out how you will make and mount your gears, once you have done that and you can make gears with any number of teeth that will work and mesh together then the rest is just Jig Making and not that hard, I am sure that anyone who wants to make this machine could do it if they set their mind to make it, I am going to make one and I don't need plans, I assure you, none of you guys need plans either as "how much it is wide" and "how much it is long" does not matter and it is all in making the gears work together, if you set out to make the gears and you can't do that then you can't make the machine either so no one should be asking for plans if you cannot make the gears, once you make the gears ad can get them to work together then the rest is easy. NGM


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

*My request for plans*



brucenelson said:


> Amazing that you ask for detailed plans that fit your specifications. The experts on this forum are generally not altruistic enough to provide this service for the great unwashed. If you are genuine in your quest for knowledge, have enough interest to research the subject for your self and come up with your own detailed drawings and plans, and perhaps you will be generous enough to share them. You will probably gain a modicum of fame and notariety in the process. Otherwise, your quest will probably remain unfulfilled.


I do not recall asking for detailed plans that fit any specification. However,it would be nice to not have to reinvent the wheel. I do expect to have to modify any plans to better suit my needs. The plans are only the starting point on a long journey.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

elrodqfudp said:


> I do not recall asking for detailed plans that fit any specification. However,it would be nice to not have to reinvent the wheel. I do expect to have to modify any plans to better suit my needs. The plans are only the starting point on a long journey.


I second that!


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

neville9999 said:


> To Woody and all you guy that want plans, this machine is not that hard to make and you don't need plans, what you have to do is work out how you will make and mount your gears, once you have done that and you can make gears with any number of teeth that will work and mesh together then the rest is just Jig Making and not that hard, I am sure that anyone who wants to make this machine could do it if they set their mind to make it, I am going to make one and I don't need plans, I assure you, none of you guys need plans either as "how much it is wide" and "how much it is long" does not matter and it is all in making the gears work together, if you set out to make the gears and you can't do that then you can't make the machine either so no one should be asking for plans if you cannot make the gears, once you make the gears ad can get them to work together then the rest is easy. NGM


I am not that happy with what I wrote re the gears, I feel that I should have also said that "the faster the lead screw rotates then the quicker the sled travels along it" I am sure that you all see and understand that, also I should have said this, there are times when you will want to disconnect your work from the system and not rotate your work piece at all, like when you run the sled along to do a long straight flute, you will not want the work piece to rotate when you do that, I want a long slow spiral so I will rotate my work slowly to achieve that, but there will be other times when I will want the work piece to rotate faster, what I am trying to say is that you will always have to change the rotation speed compared to sled speed depending on what job you are doing and the only way to do that is that you will have to have many different gears and you will also have to rearrange the gear set up to get the rotation the way you will want it for each job, doing that will be totally up to you so you will also have to be able to make any gear you need at the time to set it up the way each job calls for, no one can help you with that, anyone who wants to make this machine has to be able to make new gears with different numbers of teeth at any time and personally be able to change how the gears mesh to get the rotation speed that is called for, I am sure that a plan could be done in regard to how one type of rotation is achieved but that set up will be useless to use for a different rotation speed, making this machine is totally about making the gears and getting the rotation correct for what each job calls for and no one can help with that, best of luck to you all and I hope that some of you do make this machine as you will be amazed at the things that you can do with it. neville


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig*

Having made this machine, I will tell you some of the shortcomings of this machine concerning feed per rotation of the workpiece spindle. With the gears specified, the coarsest feed is 9 5/8 inches per revolution of the spindle and the finest feed is 13/16 inches per revolution of the spindle. While wanting to have a coarser feed ratio for cutting long spirals, probably for making a rifling jig for Kentucky rifles; or wanting to make a finer feed for tracing contours on a spindle; I find that coarser and finer feeds are not available without a total re-design of the gear train. It will not work to replace some of the gears with larger or smaller pitch diameters. The only way that I have come up with is to make a planetary gear cluster that will either speed up the ratio or slow it down, depending on how it is mounted on the workpiece spindle. I figure that I could easily make this planetary gear cluster with a 3 to 1 ratio, which would give me a 29 inch spiral, or a 5/16 spiral, depending which way the planetary gear cluster was mounted.

I really don't think that the 5/16 spiral would be any good for tracing contours for stairway or chair spindles, so I have given up on the possibility of using this machine for turning spindles by tracing. It works very well using the 13/16 spiral for turning straight or tapered diameters by using a 1" flat bottom bowl cutter for these purposes, so if I want fancy contours, I will do them on a machine designed for this purpose.

I will probably make the planetary gear cluster for turning long spirals. This is certainly an excellent machine for the purposes for which it was designed. I made the carriage so that it can me moved 2 inches to each side of the center line for cutting flats and for machining mortises on the workpiece. This movement is accomplished by means of a lever on the carriage.

Another complaint I have on this machine is that stops used to control the lengthwise movement of the carriage do not work if you are using clamps to control the positions of the stops. The lead screw that moves the carriage develops too much force to be stopped in a repeatable position, if using clamping pressure of a normal woodworking clamp.

Upon consideration, I am thinking of using electronic digital readouts to control the lengthwise and diametric locations. I have found a source for these readouts, look under Digimag Remote Digital Readouts. They have a 36 inch model for about $70, and a 12 inch model for about $30.

If you are looking for plans to make this Spiral Router Milling Machine, detailed plans are readily available by contacting ShopNotes magazine, and request a back issue of December 2010. This shows a cut list of the parts and their dimensions, and also the hardware necessary for construction. If you want a larger machine, you can add 12 inches to the length, which will make it able to take a 48 inch spindle. You will find that you can download full-size templates for the gears. The only thing that is missing from their drawings are the hole locations in the end plates. I have a close tolerance list of the x and y hole locations. If you are very good at hole layout, this list of x and y hole locations is a Godsend. I drew out the gears and their hole locations on my cad systems, and made alternate hole locations for reversing the direction of rotation for reverse spirals. One thing extra, make the end plates for the machine two inches higher than specified. This extra height is needed for the alternate hole locations for reverse spirals.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

I have been spending much of my time in the shop and haven’t taken the time to be very active on this thread lately. It has been interesting for me to see all of the comments relating to the difficulty of creating the gears. For me, it was rather a simple, but time consuming proposition. I followed the procedure set forth within Shop Notes. I used a drill as indicated for the bottom (gullet) of the tooth and my band saw to cut out the side surface of the tooth. I then made a plywood jig to rotate two gears so that the fit could be confirmed. Like I said, it was just time consuming. If I were to make more gears in the future, I would probably use a scroll law to achieve a finer cut. When you look at the pictures, you will see the inaccuracy within the teeth (sloppy workmanship). The area that gave me the most difficulty was figuring out ways to keep slop out of the carriage movements and still have them move freely. The “Y” and “Z” directions of the sled gave me the most problem. Keeping a free movement without slop and without purchasing an expensive linear bearing system was difficult at best. I finally ended up using a drawer slide with roller bearings to solve the problem for the “Y” axis. The “Z” axis still has a wood slide which seems to work satisfactory at this time. The movements are not as good as I would like, but it is working will enough until something better is thought of.
To help better understand the linear movement, I have attached two pictures showing both extremes of the movement. For a reverse direction all that is needed is an idler gear of any size. Any one of the gear ratios can be reversed desired. In conclusion, don’t let cutting the gears scare you off from making your design of your router turning contraption. Just go for it and have some fun in the process.
Dick


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

brucenelson said:


> Having made this machine, I will tell you some of the shortcomings of this machine concerning feed per rotation of the workpiece spindle. With the gears specified, the coarsest feed is 9 5/8 inches per revolution of the spindle and the finest feed is 13/16 inches per revolution of the spindle. While wanting to have a coarser feed ratio for cutting long spirals, probably for making a rifling jig for Kentucky rifles; or wanting to make a finer feed for tracing contours on a spindle; I find that coarser and finer feeds are not available without a total re-design of the gear train. It will not work to replace some of the gears with larger or smaller pitch diameters. The only way that I have come up with is to make a planetary gear cluster that will either speed up the ratio or slow it down, depending on how it is mounted on the workpiece spindle. I figure that I could easily make this planetary gear cluster with a 3 to 1 ratio, which would give me a 29 inch spiral, or a 5/16 spiral, depending which way the planetary gear cluster was mounted.
> 
> I really don't think that the 5/16 spiral would be any good for tracing contours for stairway or chair spindles, so I have given up on the possibility of using this machine for turning spindles by tracing. It works very well using the 13/16 spiral for turning straight or tapered diameters by using a 1" flat bottom bowl cutter for these purposes, so if I want fancy contours, I will do them on a machine designed for this purpose.
> 
> ...


I want to say that both of you coming back onto this thread has changed it all into a better direction as all the “wanting plans” dialogue was slowing it all down, both the new posts have added good new content to this conversation, I also wanted to congratulate you both for the very inventive machine’s you both have made, even though they both differ, they are both very damn clever, I think that both the contraption’s are so versatile that they can be used for many cutting jobs other than router turning, including sizing conformity issues with any work piece as well as facing, and mortising so as that is true then I am making mine so that it can not only be set up with the same style of gears and in the same general appearance you have both used, but I will also make it so that I can do my spiral flutes from the side using a die grinder, to do this then I have to make it in a manner so that the lead screw can be fitted in at least two different locations, and it will call for two totally different types of sled. I could already see that the configuration of the gears as shown would not get me the slow rotation I need to do the long slow flute that is my primary interest so in the set up that will do that then the lead screw will be low down and at the front and then that set up will need a main drive gear with approx. 80 teeth and be up around 400mm in diameter and it may well require a planetary gear type cluster to slow down the work piece rotation enough, I could see that the gears as shown would not do that so I am happy to see that you both agree, I also could see how some of the gear teeth in the posted images are not perfect and I was encouraged to hear that they still work well that way and everyone else should also be happy to know that hand cut gears that are also not perfect can work, I would not cut gears that way myself, but I was happy to see that they could be cut that way and still work, I have never personally thought that making the gears would be that difficult but as I could see that I would need many gears of differing diameters and teeth numbers then I have been working on a way to do that without any hand cutting and I think that it can be done. I will keep you both posted regarding that, The only thing for me is that I have to finish my present work list before I can set up to make these gears, personally, I would be happy to start tomorrow. The big thing that I wanted to say here is that anyone who was setting out to make this machine should consider making in a manner that will let it be setup in differing ways and with differing gears ratios, you will not be sorry if you do. NGM


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## vikingcraftsman (Mar 31, 2006)

This thread has taken my mind in a different direction. As you know I have been spending time putting up fences to keep Sam in the back yard. So every fence I see now I look closely at. This led me to checking out peoples porch fences. All those Baluster need to be turned by a router turning machine. Boy you could go nuts making Baluster for porches.


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

FYI In another issue of Shop Notes they have plans for making a panel saw for cutting sheet goods. The bearing system that they used may solve your bearing problem on the sled.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Elrodqfudp,

Which issue of Shop Notes are you looking at??
I made a panel saw which was featured in one of the older magazines. (around 5 years back)
Dick


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Dick:

On the internet check 80/20 SOLUTIONS. On their website look up linear motions. They have a extruded aluminum rail with t-slots, and UHMW shoes riding in those t-slots. This would make an effective solution for your problem. I am thinking of incorporating this in the next iteration of my Spiral Router Milling Machine.

Bruce


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Bruce,
When I bought the extruded aluminum rail used in the contraption, I saw that they also had the ability to provide linear motion with a slide but at the time, I didn't want to spend the extra money. At that point in time, I didn't know what the projects final outcome would be and didn't want to spend more than absolutely necessary. What I ended up with is doing quite will for the intended usage.


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## tbear7672 (Jan 4, 2012)

GREAT WORK-you have really built the best "turning machine" ever!
GREAT JOB!
How to I get the plans to make one of my own?
tjl


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Which version of the router lathe are you wanting? There are two separate versions mentioned in this thread.


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## David L Jones (Apr 16, 2010)

*turning contraption*



dick in ia said:


> Hi All
> 
> Attached are a few pictures taken of a router turning contraption that I came up with to help with some of my projects. Parts of the idea came from Router Magic, Shop Notes Magazine and watching a demonstration from Legacy Milling Machines at one of the Woodworking shows a few years back. The rest came from my own trial and error and a little time.
> 
> ...


This beautiful. As a retired toolmaker, making such contraptions is pure joy. When they work, well, that is really the montains summit!! Thanks so much for the inspiration. Any plan details you wish to share will be appreciated. Gota go, I have a contraption to build!
Jonzee:thank_you2:


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

For anyone interested, I have posted a demo (4-parts) of the contraption that was given to my woodworking club. This is my first you tube experience and my first filming experience for something like this-----so go easy on an old man---

To access, go to YouTube and look for "turning contraption".

Just one more FYI:
I am trying to learn how to use sketchup. If all goes well, I should have a model within a week or so. If you are interested, send me a private e-mail along with your e-mail address.

Dick


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> I have been looking for a forum to talk about the Shopnotes Spiral router milling machine that I built from their plans. I have attached some pictures of this machine with a sample project mounted in it.


Hello Bruce,

I'm a new poster to the group but have been following this thread for a while. I would like to talk about the merits of the machine that Shopnotes created. Is there a better thread than this? 

In particular I would be interested in your modifications so far but I need to get my post count up to talk contact you directly. 

-Tim


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

Hello Dick,

I'm curious how you are connecting the stock to the spindle. Are you using the method shown in the Shopnotes plans? If so, I don't understand how the two pins can stay engaged when any amount of taper has been set. Other methods I've seen use a universal joint or a hex drive such as Robert Sorby's eccentric chuck. 

-Tim


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

*You Tube*



dick in ia said:


> For anyone interested, I have posted a demo (4-parts) of the contraption that was given to my woodworking club. This is my first you tube experience and my first filming experience for something like this-----so go easy on an old man---
> 
> To access, go to YouTube and look for "turning contraption".
> 
> ...


Hi, Dick.

I tried very hard to see your four videos but, here in China, Youtube is not allowed. I only saw a small part of the first video with your daughter working at your machine. It is amazing.

Best regard.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Tim,
Years and years and years back (when the earth was still round) I purchased a lathe live center (spur center) which fits over a 5/8" shaft from sears. I haven/t seen anything like it since. (I also used parts from my old lathe to create the dead center) If remaking the contraption today, and without the extra parts, I would probably use Shop Notes version of attaching the stock.

Dick


[QUOT.E=Bosco K;282474]Hello Dick,

I'm curious how you are connecting the stock to the spindle. Are you using the method shown in the Shopnotes plans? If so, I don't understand how the two pins can stay engaged when any amount of taper has been set. Other methods I've seen use a universal joint or a hex drive such as Robert Sorby's eccentric chuck. 

-Tim[/QUOTE]


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi Dick, 

Shopsmith has a lot of 5/8" accessories so Sears was not the only machines that used them. Now you really have me curious as to what you are using on the drive end. Can you take a photo?

I did try the Shopnotes version and it does not appear to work for me. Maybe my taper was too extreme. I think it was close to 10 or 15 degrees when I was trying it out. The pins where binding up if I recall. 

Thanks for the response. 

-Tim


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

I have completed a SketchUp model of my turning contraption for anyone intrested. This is the first time using SU so some clean up is needed on a few of the parts, but you will have more than enough info to make your own Router Turning Lathe. 

All that I need would be a private e-mail providing your e-mail address so and I would be happy to send you a copy.

Dick


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Dick, What did you use to make the tail end conduit plug out of ?
Thanks, Larry


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## flockshot (Mar 15, 2012)

I don't have enough posts to PM, because I am just starting out and don't have a lot of information for others yet. However, I would really like a copy of your machine sent to

[email protected]


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## flockshot (Mar 15, 2012)

I don't have enough posts yet to PM but I would love to see your Sketch-up

[email protected]


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

Dick,

I would like to have a copy of your Sketch Up file. 

[email protected]

Thank you,

Browne


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Dick:
Thanks for your Sketch-Up drawing of your router turning contraption. I had to download the Google Sketch-Up program to view the contraption. I must say that you did a magnificent job with the drawing tools that were available to you. Sketch-Up appears to be an excellent architechtural drawing program, with the advantage that it is free. There are a lot of excellent videos available for learning how to use this program. Disadvantage is that you have to purchase a full function program to be able to transmit drawings to someone else. It has drawbacks for use as a mechanical drafting program.

Bruce


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

My last post was to bring the subject up to the top of the page, hopefully to attract an interesting comment on router turning. The posts on this subject were drying up.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Is anyone building one?


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Just a quick update:
Thanks Bruce for bringing the post to the top of the heap. I had thought that most of the interest had gone. 
The offer still holds on providing a free Sketch Up model of the Contraption for anyone who is interested. Thus far I have given out 7 or 8 model drawings and have been apprised that a few are or will be built within the year.
I hope that everyone enjoys the experience of completing this project.
Dick


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

*Sketch Up 3D Warehouse*



dick in ia said:


> I have completed a SketchUp model of my turning contraption for anyone intrested. This is the first time using SU so some clean up is needed on a few of the parts, but you will have more than enough info to make your own Router Turning Lathe.
> 
> All that I need would be a private e-mail providing your e-mail address so and I would be happy to send you a copy.
> 
> Dick


First post, only 9 more to go before I can send you a PM and for the same reason I am reluctant to put my email address here.

Have been following this thread with interest as I would like to build the contraption for my local Mens Shed.




dick in ia said:


> Just a quick update:
> Thanks Bruce for bringing the post to the top of the heap. I had thought that most of the interest had gone.
> The offer still holds on providing a free Sketch Up model of the Contraption for anyone who is interested. Thus far I have given out 7 or 8 model drawings and have been apprised that a few are or will be built within the year.
> I hope that everyone enjoys the experience of completing this project.
> Dick


A possible solution is to upload it to the forum as a zip file or to send it to SketchUp 3D Warehouse ( _sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/_ :nono: can't even post an URL until I reach 10 posts :angry: ) which can be done from inside SketchUp and then post a link to it on the forum.

Arie.


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

*Sketch Up 3D Warehouse*



dick in ia said:


> Just a quick update:
> Thanks Bruce for bringing the post to the top of the heap. I had thought that most of the interest had gone.
> The offer still holds on providing a free Sketch Up model of the Contraption for anyone who is interested. Thus far I have given out 7 or 8 model drawings and have been apprised that a few are or will be built within the year.
> I hope that everyone enjoys the experience of completing this project.
> Dick


Second try, the first seems to have disappeared into the ether.

I would like a free Sketch Up model of the Contraption, but as I haven't met the 10 post limit yet, so I can't PM you. 
I don't wish to display my email on the forum for the same reason.

Another way to supply the model would be to send it to SketchUp 3D Warehouse which you can do from within Sketchup and post a link to it on the forum, for us newbies. 
Or post a zipped version on this thread.

Arie.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Arie.
I agree with not posting your email on a public forum for everyone to have access to, however, I want to keep track of where the SketchUp model goes. In this way, I will have direct access to those building my Contraption. I would suggest that you go through the efforts and make a few comments within the forum. I am sure that you have many good ideas to share. After the 10 postings, I will be glad to send you the SketchUp model.
Dick


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

OK and thanks Dick.

I'm wanting to build a routing contraption for my local Mens Shed, I don't have a workshop of my own. Looking at the ShopNotes, Bill Hylton's and your machines with the intention of extracting what I think are the best features of them all into one machine. The resultant machine needs to be simple to use as it will be used by all members of the shed, some who are not technically minded but once instructed can produce beautiful work.

Arie.


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

*SN routing machine*



brucenelson said:


> I have the x any y locations of the holes in the end plates, and the exact dimensions of the gears. I will not post this information on this forum, but will provide it to anyone who e-mails me; identifying yourself and where you are located, and how you will be utilizing this information.


Bruce,

On the 6-6-2012 sent you a forum PM, don't have your email address, with the identifying details requested. Would very much like the x & y information as I don't wish to _reinvent the wheel_. 
Please contact me. :help:

Thanks in advance.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*Hole locations for ShopNotes spiral router milling machine*

To those of you that have requested the accurate hole location for the left hand plate on the ShopNotes spiral router milling machine, I have included this in my attachments. You can read it clearly by double clicking on the image. It has all the necessary hole locations for cutting right and left hand spirals. Will NOT work for gears shown on ShopNotes plans.

I have shown two different gear patterns for the 4 13/16 pitch spiral in both LEFT and RIGHT hand spirals. Notice that there is an extra 10 tooth gear in the RIGHT hand illustration. This illustration also shows where the extra holes for reverse spirals are located in the end plate. The dimensions do not appear very clear in this illustration, but you can easily get them off the list of x and y location. When making this end plate, you will need to add 2 inches to the height of the end plate to accommodate the new hole locations at the top of the plate. These new hole locations were not anticipated in the original ShopNotes plans.

I have added the correct gear tooth dimensions for those who wish to make their own gears, using gear design software on cad/cam systems. Once again, you must use gears made with these dimensions, not the ones provided by ShopNotes in their plans.

If you would take advantage of my offer, I would make a complete set of gears and left-hand end plates for you, out of 3/4 inch Baltic Birch plywood for $500, shipping costs not included. I have a 20" x 40" Techno-Isel CNC router and Mastercam Cad/Cam software. I am not making a profit at this price, but am providing a service that may be difficult to obtain elsewhere.

Bruce


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Where would one put a gear for reversing the direction also what size gear would you need?
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*Hole locations for ShopNotes spiral router milling machine*

Upon checking the ShopNotes gear drawings, and the drawings of the gears that I made, all my gears are about 1/8 inch larger than the ShopNotes gear drawings. Therefore, the hole locations that I have specified will NOT work for gears made from the ShopNotes drawings. If you wanted to use these hole locations that I have provided, you will have to have gears designed by gear design software, and cut on a cnc router. I will check my drawings and provide you with the diametral pitch of the gears and the exact outside diameter of each gear. My apologies for this mixup.

I have done the corrections which are contained in my previous post.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Larry,

The reversing gear can just be another copy of the smallest gears. You just need to fit it in between the other gears by changing the positions of one or more of them to allow this one to fit in. With the additional gear it will make spirals in the opposite direction. 


Bruce,

When the Shopnotes article first came out I e-mailed them about the lack of the reversing capability with a suggestion to add the additional gear to their design. They responded with a thank you note and included a new set of gear plans, saying that the ones that were published in the article weren't exactly correct. If you are going to build this jig and plan to use their gear plans, contact them for a copy of the revised plans. If you go with a gear design program you won't need these plans.

I was acquiring / accumulating the parts to build one of these jigs right after the Shopnotes article was published, but life got in the way. Maybe I'll get the chance sometime this coming Winter.

Charley


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

CharleyL said:


> Larry,
> 
> The reversing gear can just be another copy of the smallest gears. You just need to fit it in between the other gears by changing the positions of one or more of them to allow this one to fit in. With the additional gear it will make spirals in the opposite direction.
> 
> ...


I am not aware of these ShopNotes revisions. Do they contain the x and y locations of the holes? They did not contain these locations in their original plans. They described a method of fitting gears and drilling holes in the left end plate after fitting gears in mesh together. My method does not depend on manually locating and fitting these gears. After the holes have been located in the left end plate with my dimensions, and machining the gears to the dimensions that I have given, the gears will mesh and operate properly, no manual fitting required.

Bruce


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Bruce,
No, the revised gear design does not include the end panel dimensions. You are supposed to determine the positions by trial fitting the gears and marking the positions yourself. Any variation in gear diameter is then accounted for. The revised gear templates were made because the printing process used for the publication created a distortion in the gear templates that were included in the original article. If a gear design program is used instead of these templates the printed output should also be accurate. You need perfectly round gears that mesh together with a minimum
gear-to-gear play for the jig to function well.

Charley


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Are the gear templates that you downlode from ShopNotes web site right?
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

woodie26 said:


> Are the gear templates that you downlode from ShopNotes web site right?
> Thanks


If you are referring to the hole locations that I have given, the gear templates that you download from ShopNotes will NOT work with those hole locations. I have posted a list of the proper gear tooth dimensions that will work with these hole locations.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I was refering to the post by Charley.
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Any new ideas on the subject? Nothing has been posted for over a month.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Any one building one?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I was sent replacement printed templates for the gears when I e-mailed a comment about the lack of the jig's ability to cut spirals in both directions, and how it would be easy to place an additional small gear in the group to achieve the reversal. They sent me a thank you note along with new prints for the gears, saying that the ones that were printed in the Shop Notes article had developed some distortions during the publication's printing. Either use a gear program to make your gear templates or contact Shop Notes for a printed copy of the gear prints if you intend to make one of these tools. 

I had big plans to make one of these jigs and started collecting the needed hardware, but life has gotten in the way. It may be another year before I get the chance to make one of these for myself.

Charley


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

woodie26 said:


> Any one building one?


Woodie I am a bit like Charlie and I am building one but it may be a little while before I can run spirals on it as I have other serious obligations for now, so, I am making one, but it will be a variation on the theme and will include a concept for Bill Hylon's Router Magic book, this is a very useful item and I have been getting together all the hardware and timber parts I need, one day I will finish this machine and I will run spirals on it and I have said to both Dick and Bruce that you guys on this site have given me the information I needed to move this idea of mine along to a finished item that will do the long spirals that I want, this site where men with similar ideas can share them has helped me quite a bit and I thank all the contributors, but I can't finish it as soon as I want to. Neville9999


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

*Thank You Gentlemen!*

I must say thank you to Dick for starting this thread and sharing his "contraption". And thanks Bruce for sharing his version and all the other members for their inputs and insights.....
I've been contemplating purchasing a "Legacy", but the price has been a major deterrent. I've been telling my uncle (woodworking mentor) that we can build one. And, after spending the better part of 3 hours reading this thread (and links), you guys have given me the confidence that it can be done.

Again,
Thank You...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Trini said:


> I must say thank you to Dick for starting this thread and sharing his "contraption". And thanks Bruce for sharing his version and all the other members for their inputs and insights.....
> I've been contemplating purchasing a "Legacy", but the price has been a major deterrent. I've been telling my uncle (woodworking mentor) that we can build one. And, after spending the better part of 3 hours reading this thread (and links), you guys have given me the confidence that it can be done.
> 
> Again,
> Thank You...


Welcome to the forum, Jesse.


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Thanks James! I'm definitely enjoying what i'm coming across. There's a wealth of experience here.......


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## Relative (Apr 24, 2008)

CharleyL said:


> I was sent replacement printed templates for the gears when I e-mailed a comment about the lack of the jig's ability to cut spirals in both directions, and how it would be easy to place an additional small gear in the group to achieve the reversal. They sent me a thank you note along with new prints for the gears, saying that the ones that were printed in the Shop Notes article had developed some distortions during the publication's printing. Either use a gear program to make your gear templates or contact Shop Notes for a printed copy of the gear prints if you intend to make one of these tools.
> 
> I had big plans to make one of these jigs and started collecting the needed hardware, but life has gotten in the way. It may be another year before I get the chance to make one of these for myself.
> 
> Charley


The corrected templates from ShopNotes are available for download at:

ShopNotes Magazine - Milling Machine Patterns and Setup - Extra 

Sources for some of the the hardware are listed at: 

ShopNotes Magazine - Sources - Router Milling Machine 

I'm just about done cutting the gears using the drill press/bandsaw method. Time-consuming and can try your patience.

Mike Cebula


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Mike,

Please let us know how the revised gears mesh up....


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

We aren't great writers and most of us can't spell very well, but we get the ideas across.
We prefer to share our woodworking ideas here, even if we aren't very good with the English language. We are much better at making sawdust and doing it in new and unique ways though.

Charley


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

I would like to thank everyone for their comments on this thread. I thought that the thread had gone to the way-side many months back, but, it seems to keep getting revived. I guess that that just shows all of the interest in Router Turning.
Charley hit the nail on the head with his last comment. We all enjoy working woodworking. Our (my) abilities may be short on the spelling and grammar, but with the aid of pictures and some stumbling with the keyboard, we will manage to get the message across. 
Someone asked as to whether there were any new ideas on the subject, I decided to jump back in. The only thing that I have done to improve my turning contraption is to add an apron. Everything else has been working quite will (when I have the time to play with it), but I got tired of having to clean up the entire shop every time that I the contraption. The pictures below will help to show my lazy attempt at shop clean-up.
Dick


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Trini said:


> I must say thank you to Dick for starting this thread and sharing his "contraption". And thanks Bruce for sharing his version and all the other members for their inputs and insights.....
> I've been contemplating purchasing a "Legacy", but the price has been a major deterrent. I've been telling my uncle (woodworking mentor) that we can build one. And, after spending the better part of 3 hours reading this thread (and links), you guys have given me the confidence that it can be done.
> 
> Again,
> Thank You...


I promise you that it can be built, "If you build it then spirals will come" NGM


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## Baldric (Aug 5, 2012)

Brilliant !love the idea, just wish i had the room for one.
regards Bob


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

neville9999 said:


> I promise you that it can be built, "If you build it then spirals will come" NGM


I love your quote!
I have never been orignal enough to thank of something like that.


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Good day all!

Just a little research for anyone who may be looking at making one of these "contraptions" and may be intimdated by the gears; the link below is to the site "How Stuff Works". It should be able to break it down for you and make it not seem so intimidating.

science.howstuffworks.com/transport/engines-equipment/gear-ratio.htm

Regards,
Jesse


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Trini said:


> Good day all!
> 
> Just a little research for anyone who may be looking at making one of these "contraptions" and may be intimdated by the gears; the link below is to the site "How Stuff Works". It should be able to break it down for you and make it not seem so intimidating.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for the link as I am very interested in the gear ratios myself, for the long spirals that I want to do then I will not be using the gears as set out here, as they would have to be redesigned anyway to give me the slow spirals that I want, then I will do something from Bill Hyltons book instead, even still, the gears as set out here do interest me as there are things that can be done using this type of rotation control, everyone should not forget that the gears here are set out this way to give the user the option of setting the contraption up to give spirals of differing pitches but they will not give the user "all of the possible pitches" However I will still make them sometime as I am sure that I can make them straight off a router jig, before I do that then I will see what your new link does say about gear ratios. NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

dick in ia said:


> I love your quote!
> I have never been orignal enough to thank of something like that.


Dick, Thanks for saying that but there is nothing less original than cheap plagiarism, but I liked it so much myself that I had to use it. NGM


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Neville, I've actually been considering the pitch dilema as well. As such, have also decided to go with the "chain drive" version. What I'm gonna do is go with an entire bicycle cassette for the tranverse gears, and a three ring chainwheel for the chuck gears. This should give the ability to get a wide variation on the spirals.


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Neville, I should also note, that I'll be using bevel gears with a 1:1 ratio in the gearbox, whereas in Bill Hylton's model they went with a 2:1 ratio. I'm also using 12 teeth "stationery sprocket" for the crank sprocket and idler (tensioner) sprocket.
With these variations I should get from 5" spirals up to 21" spirals.
Jesse


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## Clemo (Jun 9, 2012)

*Bicycle gearing*

I too have spotted bicycle gearing as a ready made variable gear set.

Trini, since you are using both 3 ring crank and the cluster I take it the crank gears are attached to your chuck and the cluster is driving a screw the length of your lathe?

But, way to go - ready made gears.

Tks
C ya.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Where are you fining the bicycle gears? what size are you using?
Thanks, Larry


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Just finished making a new set of gears for a new ShopNotes Spiral Turning Lathe. This will be finished sometime next year. Am incorporating improvements over the previous version. It appears that the consensus, in these discussions, is that you need longer spirals. The current one machines 7 different spiral leads from 13/16 inch to 9 5/8 inches. I will incorporate a planetary gear in my gear train that will increase the lead by a factor of 3. So that the 9 5/8 inch lead will be increased to 28 7/8 inches. I don't have the planetary gear done yet, I have it designed, but have not determined how I will incorporate it into my final drive so that it works with my index mechanism.

I question what is the necessity of the long spiral leads will be incorporated into a design of a workpiece to be machined on the contraption. When making my first test project, I wanted to cut two spiral grooves, both right hand and left hand, that would cross (intersect) each other at a 90 degree angle. I determined that the best spiral lead to accomplish this would be the 6 3/8 inch lead.

As far as improvements, the new machine would have a larger diameter spindle with a #2 morse taper, and a 1-8 tpi threaded nose to let me use chucks on the spindle. The machine will also have a digital readout for the length measurement, and for diameter measurement for the cross-slide. I will use UMHW plastic sliding surfaces for the carriage to ride on.

I thought that driving the lead screw with a variable speed drill would be a handy idea. In practical use, it does not work out. Because of the difficulty of stopping the lengthwise travel in an exact location, it is a lot better to turn the screw by a hand crank. My first project incorporated a table leg with squares, tapered round surfaces, spiral grooves on these tapered surfaces, and straight reeding grooves on tapered surfaces. Also mortises were cut for tenons on stretchers to connect the legs in a base. 

I have attached a picture of these table legs. These table legs were completely machined on the ShopNotes spiral router milling machine, including the square features with mortises, the tapered features with straight reeding and spiral cross designs and straight foot on the left end, along with the grooves and radii.


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Clemo, yep, the 3 ring crank will be attached to the chuck. But the cluster (cassette) is actually gonna be mating to a gearbox that will incorporate 90 degree bevel gears, this in turn is mated to the drive chain. The drive chain is two 12 teeth gears with the length of chain. One gear will be mated directly to the gearbox and this will be the crank, the other will be the an idler on the far end from the (engine room). I preffered this setup as with this chain drive, you connect the router bridge directly to the chain, and as such by connecting to the top *or* bottom loop, will determine left or right spiral.

As soon as my post count is up, i'll link you guys (for those who wish) with a copy of Hylton's design......


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Larry, I got my set-up locally and from an old bike I had laying around. But, there are a few guys on ebay that got some reasonable prices. Failing which, I'm sure you can find a local repair shop that will have everything that you need.
I'm using for my gear chuck a 3 gear wheel ring with 48T, 38T and 28T.
For the tranverse gear it's a 7 speed cassette, 34T to 14T.
For the gearbox, I was gonna go with a 1:1 ratio, but I'm now gonna try cutting a gearing with both 1:1 and 2:1. Hopefully, if I get it right it will be just a matter of shifting the gear on the tranverse sprocket to engage either ratio.
Fingers crossed


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## Trini (Aug 8, 2012)

Bruce, I too was wondering about the longer spirals. Now, in Hylton's design, you get two lengths - 15" and 21". In the book he suggested that these were perfect for table legs and such, but may be too loose for shorter turnings.
I'm thinking that the tighter spirals would be perfect for spindles and thinner items. While the loose/long spirals for thicker and/or longer items (table legs, balusters etc.)

The shopnotes only gave up to 9 5/8".
So, that's why i'm trying to incorporate as much pitches as possible.
Your continued input is appreciated.


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## Clemo (Jun 9, 2012)

Trini, tks for the prompt reply. I already have the simple, cable drive router lathe which is referenced elswhere in this forum. I considered converting it to bike chain, using bevel gears from a large hand drill to connect the cassette to the chuck, then running a chain along the back to the router bridge and return via a tensionable idler. The idea is still in mind but I am distracted at present. I'm building a mini version to give me the same features acurately but with a 15" bed and about 1-1/2" throw. I will post pics when I can. (I have a market for thick ornate handles for sewing tools! Ladies with arthritic hands.) 

Tks again
C ya.


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## dogcatcher (Aug 25, 2012)

I signed up tonight so I could see the photos and documents that have been posted. I have to say this has been an interesting first read on the Router Forums. Thanks for the wonderful read.

Marvin


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey Clemo;

When you've done a few please post pictures. There may be a need for that here, in Quebec, Canada. There are a lot of weavers here so I might be able to adapt your ideas to weaving as well as knitting.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I keep coming back to this forum to see if anybody had anything else to say on the subject, and to keep it near the top.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*Copy spindles how?*

Hi Dick.I'm in the U.K.just reading your blog and looking at the stair spindles,how did you copy them on your contraption,I'm building the one from Shop notes,and they don't seem to give any info on a copier gizmo,at least not that I can see in the instructions,also the cost of Acme rod here in the U.K. is very expensive,do you think steel stud rod could be used instead,I know the threads are rougher than acme but they can be easily smothed,I would appreciate your advise , MACSWAG.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

have you a plan or info for how to copy the spindles


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Trini said:


> Neville, I should also note, that I'll be using bevel gears with a 1:1 ratio in the gearbox, whereas in Bill Hylton's model they went with a 2:1 ratio. I'm also using 12 teeth "stationery sprocket" for the crank sprocket and idler (tensioner) sprocket.
> With these variations I should get from 5" spirals up to 21" spirals.
> Jesse


I did already have quite a useful 1 to 1 right angle gear box, it is from a right angle chuck attachment for use with any power drill or power screw driver but it is "1 to 1" so because I want to slow down the work piece rotation as much as I can then I am using the body of an old hand drill with bevel gears, this hand drill has a reduction in speed of about 1 to 3.75, it is designed of course to increase the chuck speed by that amount from the crank handle speed but fitting it the other way around means that it will slow down the work piece rotation at the front end of the drive train, as well as work effectively as the needed "right angle gear box", I would personally never make the gear box as per Bills book "sorry Bill" as there are other better ways to do it with off the shelf gear boxes and the hand drill is the best way for me to go, I would like to take the credit for the hand drill idea but it came from Clemo to me via private mail and it was so promising an idea for the rotation speed that I want to get that it is now part of my design, I also intend to fit cluster gears from a push bike to also play a part in "speed control" as the chain speed will control the sled speed "with the die grinder motor unit attached", I just wish that I had more time just now as design wise I am fully ready to go but I can't see me getting the spare time for a little while yet, all I can do for now is try to keep track of what you all are saying and I am impressed with all the obvious enthusiasm. NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

brucenelson said:


> Just finished making a new set of gears for a new ShopNotes Spiral Turning Lathe. This will be finished sometime next year. Am incorporating improvements over the previous version. It appears that the consensus, in these discussions, is that you need longer spirals. The current one machines 7 different spiral leads from 13/16 inch to 9 5/8 inches. I will incorporate a planetary gear in my gear train that will increase the lead by a factor of 3. So that the 9 5/8 inch lead will be increased to 28 7/8 inches. I don't have the planetary gear done yet, I have it designed, but have not determined how I will incorporate it into my final drive so that it works with my index mechanism.
> 
> I question what is the necessity of the long spiral leads will be incorporated into a design of a workpiece to be machined on the contraption. When making my first test project, I wanted to cut two spiral grooves, both right hand and left hand, that would cross (intersect) each other at a 90 degree angle. I determined that the best spiral lead to accomplish this would be the 6 3/8 inch lead.
> 
> ...


Very well worded Bruce, I am also fitting my chuck to a threaded shaft as I want to be able to hold the work with the same chuck regardless of if it is in the router lathe of on the normal wood lathe or in a box over my router table so my chucks will fit into all the options, I think myself that there will always be new and different ideas about how this should all work and the design may never be final, your router lathe contraption will always be a work in progress and I for one will be happy to see all the constructed machines as they will all have ideas of good value. NGM


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

MACswag said:


> Hi Dick.I'm in the U.K.just reading your blog and looking at the stair spindles,how did you copy them on your contraption,I'm building the one from Shop notes,and they don't seem to give any info on a copier gizmo,at least not that I can see in the instructions,also the cost of Acme rod here in the U.K. is very expensive,do you think steel stud rod could be used instead,I know the threads are rougher than acme but they can be easily smothed,I would appreciate your advise , MACSWAG.




MACswag,
All that I did for duplication on the spindles was to remount each spindle in the lathe after the setup for any one of the specific operations was made. Just like remounting something between centers on your wood lathe. Then, it was just a matter of repeating that specific operation as many times as you have spindles to turn.

I did make a duplicating attachment to go on the back of the contraption along with a follower wheel; however, for the quantity that I have dealt with, it has proven not to be worth the setup time.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*copying and acme rod*

Hello again,thanks for the info,that's what I will do,obvious when you stop and think about it,all I need now is info from yourself or anyone on the forum as to the use of steel rod,as against Acme rod,can't get the short length here and it is so very expensive would 1"stainless steel stud rod do the job just as well,any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you all for a great thread and the link to dicks videos,makes it all come to life, MAC.


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## stanley90150m (Sep 20, 2012)

hi all, 

new here and building up my initial posts. have questions about my old stanley 90150m but pertinent to this thread .....

i built one large lathe from a toyota rear end and used the router to rough lg. blanks. while i haven't done it yet, i mounted the spindle so i could turn up to 7' in diameter. the router was mounted in an x/y cross slide for controlled positioning. i powered the axle with a portable pipe threader. i can't post photos yet. i later went to a long handled angle grinder with chainsaw disk for roughing.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

MACswag said:


> Hello again,thanks for the info,that's what I will do,obvious when you stop and think about it,all I need now is info from yourself or anyone on the forum as to the use of steel rod,as against Acme rod,can't get the short length here and it is so very expensive would 1"stainless steel stud rod do the job just as well,any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you all for a great thread and the link to dicks videos,makes it all come to life, MAC.


I do not have a spindle duplicating capability on my ShopNotes router turning machine. If fancy curves are required, they are done on another machine, and re-mounted in the ShopNotes machine for spiral and reeded grooves if required. I do not recommend substituting 60 degree threads for acme threads. 60 degree threads are for use as fasteners, and acme threads are for motion transmitting. I got my acme thread stock from MSC in a 6 foot length. I also got two acme nuts from the same source, and using clever means of securing those nuts in the carriage housing, one nut can be adjusted against the other to get rid of backlash in the screw.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

stanley90150m said:


> hi all,
> 
> new here and building up my initial posts. have questions about my old stanley 90150m but pertinent to this thread .....
> 
> i built one large lathe from a toyota rear end and used the router to rough lg. blanks. while i haven't done it yet, i mounted the spindle so i could turn up to 7' in diameter. the router was mounted in an x/y cross slide for controlled positioning. i powered the axle with a portable pipe threader. i can't post photos yet. i later went to a long handled angle grinder with chainsaw disk for roughing.


I can't wait to see pictures of this process!


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## stanley90150m (Sep 20, 2012)

hi bruce, will be glad to share. it was fun and we turned a few pieces before i had to put it away for more pressing issues. i'm getting near the 10 post enabling goal.

the router i'm asking about in my intro gave up while doing that cutting 4 years ago .... just because it had been used so much i think ... broke the plastic fan. i've made a new aluminum fan and need some details to fit it properly.


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## stanley90150m (Sep 20, 2012)

10 posts .... will try photos. 

it appears i don't have a photo of the router mounted to do the cutting but it was one of the early tools i used. 

rhttp://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55087&stc=1&d=1348234786
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55084&stc=1&d=1348234786
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55085&stc=1&d=1348234786
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55086&stc=1&d=1348234786
http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55088&stc=1&d=1348234786


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Bruce.
Thanks Bruce that's the info I needed on the screw,I will try to find a dealer who sells shorter length ACME.

keep chippin, MAC.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Stanley90150:

I appreciated your novel approach to wood turning. I incorporated a angle grinder with a carbide insert cutter for spindle contour turning with a South Bend 16 inch lathe and a Tru-Trace hydraulic tracer attachment. The first picture shows spindles and balusters for staircases in my home. There are 3 stories of staircases with approx. 135 spindles and balusters. The last picture is of a antique chair that I fixed for my friend with 2 new spindles made of white oak.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I appreciate all the recent replies to this thread. Keep them coming. Lets make this forum of "ROUTER TURNING" the best thread of original turning ideas in Router Forums. Thanks to Dick in Ia for starting the thread with his contraption.


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## stanley90150m (Sep 20, 2012)

love it bruce. imagination is the only hurdle. being new, i have reviewed few of the many creative ideas i'm sure are in past posts.

nice machines too. btw i have a beautiful new south bend cross slide that i have no immediate use for. i think it was made for the 14" / 16" but really not sure. i was going to turn it into a vertical milling attachment for my restored 1920's 'champion' 16". too many ideas.

don't mean to divert this thread too far. high speed cutting has some terrific advantages in many materials no matter what machine is adapted.

http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55117&stc=1&d=1348321611

http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55118&stc=1&d=1348321611


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## Clemo (Jun 9, 2012)

*Turned Crochet Hook Handles*

I have just posted details of my crochet hook handles in Clemo's Gallery. Details of my home made router lathe will appear here soon,

Tks
C ya.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Nicely Done Clemo. Are they thick enough for someone with arthritis? How big a diameter are you using? Thanks for the post.

Ron


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## Clemo (Jun 9, 2012)

Tks 4 reply.

I have tried 10, 12 & 14mm. My "test panel" like the parallel or slightly tapered sided styles over the early attempts.

I'm thinking 'bout 18mm but keeping the weight down is the challenge. But a work in progress.

Tks again,
C ya.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Clemo, you might consider using Basswood for the handles. It is feather weight, inexpensive and machines very well. It would have a very low shipping cost.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Clemo said:


> Tks 4 reply.
> 
> I have tried 10, 12 & 14mm. My "test panel" like the parallel or slightly tapered sided styles over the early attempts.
> 
> ...


Hi Clemo:

I would think that 50mm would be better. Some arthritics have difficulty with small sizes. Did you consider balsa laminates? The router lathe is the best way to machine that material, other than carving. Have you considered some tactile covering i.e. foam rubber or something to ease grip pressure? Your test panel, what degree of arthritics do they suffer from?


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Stanley90150m.

Wow!!! you certainly have a lot of imagination to built this kind of machine.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

*Crochet hooks.*



Clemo said:


> I have just posted details of my crochet hook handles in Clemo's Gallery. Details of my home made router lathe will appear here soon,
> 
> Tks
> C ya.


Hi, Clemo.

I shown these pictures to my wife since she loves to do crochet quilts.

I will wait for your homemade router lathe pictures and additional details for crochet hooks.

Best regards.


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## stanley90150m (Sep 20, 2012)

some more imagination ..... just found these photos on the 'wow' site .... 'world of woodturners'. worth a visit. wonderful range of talent and some exquisite turnings from around the world.

router turning. photos of doug mainse who evidently thinks in a similar direction to me regarding large turnings. he's done it far better and really produces vs my curious explorations.

world of woodturners

World of Woodturners Login

doug mainse

sandstonemanororiginals.com | Sandstone Manor Originals


http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55221&stc=1&d=1348835754

http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=55222&stc=1&d=1348835754


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Really nice stuff you made.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi,yes I am,but a little concerned on the two pins in the headstock to do tapers,would they bind on the rotation,
MAC.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi Bruce,did you ever work out the location for a reverse gear on the shop notes jig,I'm building one with a lot of enthusiasm over skill but it's all coming together nicely,and would really want to do reversing spirals, any help or drawings would really be appreciated on where to locate this extra gear,thanks , MAC.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*Gear mounting holes*



Bosco K said:


> Hello Bruce,
> 
> I'm a new poster to the group but have been following this thread for a while. I would like to talk about the merits of the machine that Shopnotes created. Is there a better thread than this?
> 
> ...


Hi,did you figure out those holes for your self they don't look like the ones on my shop notes plan for the same jig,and did you figure out how to make it reverse,any help will be appreciated,I'm building one and nearly there so any help will do, THanks MAC.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

The hole location chart that I have posted in my uploads will not work for the gear design that are in the ShopNotes plan. This gear hole location chart gives the locations of all the holes for the 8 different gear combinations that ShopNotes plans specified. It also gives the location for the reversing idler gear. The reason being that my gears are based on a 3.5 diametral pitch, which is slightly different than those in the ShopNotes plans. Therefore the hole locations that I show in my uploads will not work for the gears in the ShopNotes plans. I intend to work out the hole locations for the hand made gears specified in the ShopNotes plans. These will be available sometime next year due to the large amount of design work on a cad/cam system necessary. You will have to be patient, because I know of no other person with the expertise and computer systems necessary to do this. This hole location list is a omission in the information given by ShopNotes in their plans.

I will return to Florida after November 1, and then I will have the time to re-draw the ShopNotes gears to figure out what the diametral pitch is, and then I will be able to arrange the gears to determine the exact hole locations in the end plate for the right-hand and left-hand spiral gear combinations. This hole location pattern will then work for the ShopNotes hand made gears. This will make the ShopNotes Spiral Router Milling Machine a more serious and desirable project for the serious woodworker to take on. MacSwag, I noticed in another forum that you were still considering using a different thread for the lead screw. I would encourage you to give up on this idea, and to stick with the lead screw specified in the ShopNotes plans. If you went with a smaller screw with a finer thread you would not be happy with the outcome for a number of reasons. If you take on a project of this magnitude, you should do it right or not at all.

When I made my gears on the cnc router, other than the .005 extra that I removed from the face of the gear teeth for running clearance, and the fact that the hole was in the exact center of the gear and sized to allow for a oillite bronze flanged bushing to be pressed into the center hole. When making these gears by tracing the pattern on the plywood gear blank, considerable care will have to be made to follow the exact contour with a good quality scroll saw. I would say that to allow running clearance, the saw kerf will have to be centered on the traced line. When making the center hole for the gear blank, I would recommend using a 3/4 inch diameter forstner drill, which would make a pretty accurate hole. The recommended actual diameter of the hole would be .745 inch. If the hole turns out a little large, and the bushing is loose in the hole, the hole diameter can be reduced by applying a coat or two of polyurethane varnish.

When making the gears and end plates for this machine, be sure to use 3/4 inch thick baltic birch plywood. This plywood is made up of thin layers of birch wood sandwiched with layers of waterproof glue. This plywood has no voids in the plys, which are 100% birch wood, which is very strong and is well suited for making these gears. This plywood comes from the Baltic countries, of which Russia is one that makes this excellent plywood. American construction plywood should not be used, because they use trash wood fillers with a lot of voids. Expect to pay about $100 per sheet, and you will need 2 sheets.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Bruce, thanks for the info and point taken about the lead screw, I will stick to the plan and make a new left hand panel when you post the new hole locations. MAC.


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## Hutzul (Oct 4, 2012)

Wow !! Great machine, and the staircase spindles are excellent!! I plan to make my own router lathe, only smaller, but am still trying to plan it out. Yours is very inspirational, thank you for sharing.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

The last few comments by participants brought up some questions which I will now try to address. The comment being how the 2 pin method of driving the workpiece will work for tapered workpieces. If you depend only on the 2 pins only for support, it will work very poorly indeed. Conventional lathes use a 60 degree center hole in both ends of the workpiece for support. This mechanical truth should not have been omitted in the plans for the spiral router jig. A photo in my uploads shows how I have treated this problem. Rather than making the disc that supports the pins out of wood, I make it out of aluminum, with set screws that lock the pins in the proper position. Note that the pins have a taper on them, which allows the mechanism to behave like a universal joint, which allows tapers to be turned on the workpieces.

Also note that I have incorporated a 60 degree center in the headstock end of the machine. The unit that supports the pins can rotate freely on the straight portion of the headstock center. A set screw locks it in the proper position. This feature allows you to rotate the workpiece independent of the gears so that you can line up the cutter with a groove preciously machined in the workpiece.

One other problem that I encountered when actually machining the spindles is getting the carriage to stop in an exact lengthwise position to accurately locate the features on the workpiece. I attempted to first do this with positive stops to stop the carriage in an exact lengthwise position. I found that this does not work because the mechanical advantage of the screw forces the stop out of position when using friction to clamp the stop in position. I looked for another means of accurately locating lengthwise features, and settled on a digital readout for lengthwise location of the carriage. The digital readout goes by the name of DIGIMAG. It cost me $49, plus shipping.

Other photos that I have downloaded concerning this post are a photo showing the tailstock, a photo showing 4 identical workpieces made entirely with the spiral router jig, a photo showing the headstock arrangement, and a photo showing a workpiece set up in the machine for machining the tapered features.

I also want to point out that this machine cannot be made successfully with woodworking equipment only. I also made use of a metal lathe (terning lay), and a milling machine to make the metal parts that I needed. Also I needed a metal lathe (terning lay) to modify the acme screw for use in the machine. I had to cut the screw to length with a saw, and turn down each end to 3/4 inch diameter to fit the oillite bushings that I had installed in the end plates. You will need to have access to a metal lathe (terning lay) to properly complete this project.

Also note that I have installed oillite bronze bushings in every place of rotation on this project, including the center holes of all the gears. I don't espouse the use of wood as a substitute for oillite bronze bushings. This and other shortcuts were made in the plans, the most glaring was the use of mdf fiberboard for the construction of the wood parts of the machine. Baltic birch plywood is far superior and when you consider the amount of work that the craftsman puts in, it does not pay to make it out of substandard materials. Maybe for a prototype, it's ok; I wonder where the prototype is not. Probably in some storage shed.

For you to whom terminology is important. TERNING LAY is a term used by hayseeds, hick-hacks, and those who have just fallen off the turnip truck in the rural area from which I have originated.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> The last few comments by participants brought up some questions which I will now try to address. The comment being how the 2 pin method of driving the workpiece will work for tapered workpieces. If you depend only on the 2 pins only for support, it will work very poorly indeed. Conventional lathes use a 60 degree center hole in both ends of the workpiece for support. This mechanical truth should not have been omitted in the plans for the spiral router jig. A photo in my uploads shows how I have treated this problem. Rather than making the disc that supports the pins out of wood, I make it out of aluminum, with set screws that lock the pins in the proper position. Note that the pins have a taper on them, which allows the mechanism to behave like a universal joint, which allows tapers to be turned on the workpieces.
> 
> Also note that I have incorporated a 60 degree center in the headstock end of the machine. The unit that supports the pins can rotate freely on the straight portion of the headstock center. A set screw locks it in the proper position. This feature allows you to rotate the workpiece independent of the gears so that you can line up the cutter with a groove preciously machined in the workpiece.
> 
> ...


Hi Bruce,you are a real down-putter to any aspiring router machine builder, a real dampener to anyone,Of course you must be trained operator of machinery and design but most of the chaps on here are learning and don't have a lot of resources,the parts you incorporated like bearings on all fittings is not necessary,
as for the turning down the Acme lead screw to fit the bearings,tosh,that can be achieved by grinding and final turning with a drill press on it's side,also I did use 1/2" rod very similar to Acme which was a lot dearer here in U.K. You say you are from the country well you should know there is always another way if precision is not paramount, so anyone reading this don't be discouraged,you can always modify.MAC.:moil:


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

I looked in your uploads folder and I can only see a glimpse of your aluminum drive. Can you show a better picture so I can get a clearer understanding of how you are making a universal joint? I understand the point of using 60º centers in the head and tailstock, but in the metal world, we would also be using a drive dog. How much taper are you able to achieve with the tapered pins?

-Tim




brucenelson said:


> The comment being how the 2 pin method of driving the workpiece will work for tapered workpieces. If you depend only on the 2 pins only for support, it will work very poorly indeed. Conventional lathes use a 60 degree center hole in both ends of the workpiece for support. This mechanical truth should not have been omitted in the plans for the spiral router jig. A photo in my uploads shows how I have treated this problem. Rather than making the disc that supports the pins out of wood, I make it out of aluminum, with set screws that lock the pins in the proper position. Note that the pins have a taper on them, which allows the mechanism to behave like a universal joint, which allows tapers to be turned on the workpieces.
> 
> Also note that I have incorporated a 60 degree center in the headstock end of the machine. The unit that supports the pins can rotate freely on the straight portion of the headstock center. A set screw locks it in the proper position. This feature allows you to rotate the workpiece independent of the gears so that you can line up the cutter with a groove preciously machined in the workpiece.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*Additional uploads on drive center and pins*

Upon re-reading the text that I have written on drive centers and pins, I noticed that the pictures were missing of the drive center and pin assembly. I also added a few more pictures, other than those showing the drive center and pin arrangement.

Notice that the first picture shows the workpiece with tapered features mounted in the machine; the second picture shows a close up of the drive center and pins; the third picture shows the construction of the tailstock; the fourth picture shows a new digital readout called a Digimag; the fifth picture shows the magnetic scale for the Digimag readout.

I hope this clarifies some of the questions that you have concerning this project. Mac, as an engineer, you should know that in order for a project to work satisfactorily, the closer that you follow construction plans will greatly increase the success of your project. Well, I closely followed the ShopNotes plans, and made a few improvements where I thought they were needed (Baltic birch plywood parts, and oil-lite bushings). It appears that you insist on using a small diameter screw of unknown thread form and pitch. Instead of the diameter and pitch specified in the plans. Do what you want.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*New pics make sense of mods*



brucenelson said:


> Upon re-reading the text that I have written on drive centers and pins, I noticed that the pictures were missing of the drive center and pin assembly. I also added a few more pictures, other than those showing the drive center and pin arrangement.
> 
> Notice that the first picture shows the workpiece with tapered features mounted in the machine; the second picture shows a close up of the drive center and pins; the third picture shows the construction of the tailstock; the fourth picture shows a new digital readout called a Digimag; the fifth picture shows the magnetic scale for the Digimag readout.
> 
> I hope this clarifies some of the questions that you have concerning this project. Mac, as an engineer, you should know that in order for a project to work satisfactorily, the closer that you follow construction plans will greatly increase the success of your project. Well, I closely followed the ShopNotes plans, and made a few improvements where I thought they were needed (Baltic birch plywood parts, and oil-lite bushings). It appears that you insist on using a small diameter screw of unknown thread form and pitch. Instead of the diameter and pitch specified in the plans. Do what you want.


Hello Bruce I stand admonished,Firstly I'm not an engineer, just your bog standard machine operator ,
and I see in your new pics what you are saying and I must say you made a lot of fine improvements,on the tail-stock assembly I will use a live center,and on the H/stock I will follow your suggestion and plans and see how that works on my rig,I also notice you have some kind of sled on the router carriage base,is that for stability,looks good but the picture isn't very clear,can you post some more, or details would help,also I have loads of small bearings in my shed so I will redo and put them to good use as you suggest,I did not mean to offend,I bow to your superior knowledge, MAC.


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## Camero68 (Jun 27, 2012)

The works you do are impressive. Thanks for sharing. It’s nice to get the family get into something you feel passionate about.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

*Modifying spiral router carriage to permit flats to be machined on spindles.*

This is the last post that I will submit on the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig this year. It concerns modifying of the router carriage (as described in the ShopNotes plans) to permit flats to be machined on the workpiece. After I completed the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig as specified in the plans, it became apparent to me that it lacked the capability to conveniently machines flats or tenons slots on the workpiece. So, I modified the carriage as shown in the following photos.

The first photo shows the actual modification to the carriage. It shows how a wide feature was machined in the carriage to accommodate the router sled shown in the second photo. You may also notice the two acme nuts on the lead screw. These two nuts mounted in their UMHW plastic mountings allow me to remove any backlash between the screw and the nuts.

The third photo shows the router and sled mounted in the carriage, clamped in place with clamps made from aluminum angle stock. Also shown is the clamping device consisting of a screw and knob.

The fourth photo is a magnification of the graduations that I have machined on the aluminum clamp to show roughly the position of the router relative to the centerline of the workpiece. It also shows that the router can be moved 2 inches either side of the center line. In actual practice, the cutter is aligned to layout lines made on the workpiece to determine the actual location of the slot.

The fifth photo shows the linked mechanism that I have provided to provide for a means to make sideways cuts on the workpiece. This mechanism was made from left over parts of a installation of a new lift for one of my overhead shop doors.

I am satisfied with this modification, and want to note that it could not have been made had I not used Baltic Birch plywood for the carriage. This material allowed me to thin out the bottom of the carriage and still maintain structural strength in the carriage. The individual plies that make up this plywood don't have any voids in them like normal plywood, and the glue used resembles a plastic polymer which provided a smooth sliding action to the sideways movements of the router. I purchased this plywood new, and did not raid a garbage skip for materials for this machine.

If you are wondering what type of machinery that I used to perform this modification, I had to clamp the carriage in a vise of a knee-type milling machine to make the required machining cuts. This was available to me because I have been a journeyman machinist and technical college instructor for the last 50 years, and have acquired the needed metalworking machine tools over a lifetime. I realize that these capabilities may not be available to you immediately, and I encourage you to make friends of craftsmen who do.


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

Hello Bruce,

What's the largest amount of taper that you can get with this setup? I'm assuming the taper of the pins matches this amount. 

You could use tooling balls instead of the 60º cone centers for a more accurate mount.

-Tim




brucenelson said:


> Notice that the first picture shows the workpiece with tapered features mounted in the machine; the second picture shows a close up of the drive center and pins; the third picture shows the construction of the tailstock;


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

Hi Bruce, 

The machine not having a Y-axis was a design flaw from the beginning. What people may not realize is using a standard flat bottom router bit and cutting down the center, you will not get a smooth cut. You will see tiny ridges left by the bit. Being able to offset the bit from center and using a TRUE flat bottom bit results in a near perfect smooth round cut. This comes from the knowledge of being a Legacy Ornamental Mill owner. 

With the added Y-axis, You now have the capabilities of creating regular polygon shaped stock or ends that are larger than the width of your router bit. Simply making your ends square using this method is more accurate than the traditional method of squaring the stock and finding the absolute center as one would do with a traditional lathe. 

If you add a split nut on the X-axis, you would not have to crank the machine to create flutes and machine flats. Just lock your Y-axis in place and slide the router left and right. In addition, you will have a more sensitive feel for your stops and not need to read the numbers on your digital scale that you added to overcome the brute force of the screw moving the stops. You will also eliminate the backlash issue when changing cutting direction. 

-Tim



brucenelson said:


> After I completed the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig as specified in the plans, it became apparent to me that it lacked the capability to conveniently machines flats or tenons slots on the workpiece. So, I modified the carriage as shown in the following photos.
> 
> The first photo shows the actual modification to the carriage. It shows how a wide feature was machined in the carriage to accommodate the router sled shown in the second photo. You may also notice the two acme nuts on the lead screw. These two nuts mounted in their UMHW plastic mountings allow me to remove any backlash between the screw and the nuts.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Tim:
Did you notice the double nuts on the lead screw, which allow me to adjust out all the backlash between the carriage and the screw. This allows me to remain in the same exact spiral groove no matter which direction that I turn the crank. I know of the ridge whereof you speak. It comes from the vertical centerline of the router not being exactly perpendicular to the flat surface that you are machining. This is common when machining flat surfaces on a metal milling machine.

I don't have these ridges on my Spiral Router Milling machine. I attribute this to the fact that my router spindle is vertical to the surface being cut. Also, I use a flat bottom box coring cutter with corner radii to machine the flat surface, which would also minimize the ridges.

I take your comment about having a split nut to disengage the carriage from the lead screw. I don't see the advantage of doing this for my purposes, and I am not considering adding this feature to my machine.

Bruce


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

* 

[ ouch. Mac.*


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Tim:

To answer your question of how much taper can be cut with the pin type driver setup. On the project that I have an illustration uploaded on which I cut tapered surfaced it cut reeds and spiral grooves. The taper for this project was one inch per foot, or slightly less that a 5 degree included angle. No problem for this setup. I don't see me using a taper greater than 10 degrees included angle, or two inches per foot. I don't see any problem if I stick within those parameters.

I don't remember what taper that I put on the drive pins, I'd have to refer back to the ShopNotes print. I don't think that the amount of taper on the pins has much bearing on the taper you can cut on the Spiral Router Jig. Just so that the pins do not bind in the holes.

Bruce


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## Bosco K (Jan 15, 2012)

I'm working with much shorter pieces and I'm looking to get closer to 15-20º of taper. Do you think your style of universal hub will work without binding?

-Tim




brucenelson said:


> Tim:
> 
> To answer your question of how much taper can be cut with the pin type driver setup. On the project that I have an illustration uploaded on which I cut tapered surfaced it cut reeds and spiral grooves. The taper for this project was one inch per foot, or slightly less that a 5 degree included angle. No problem for this setup. I don't see me using a taper greater than 10 degrees included angle, or two inches per foot. I don't see any problem if I stick within those parameters.
> 
> ...


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I can't guarantee that. I don't think the Shop notes plans would allow for a 4 inch per foot offset, which is 4 times the offset that I used. You would probably have to design an alternate method of holding your workpiece

Bruce


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Bruce has done an exceptional job of explaining and also improving the Shop Notes version for router turning. He has been far more descriptive in presenting his machine than I could ever be.
I don’t want to step on Bruce’s toes but did want to make a few comments as to why I didn’t follow the Shop Notes version for router turning. Instead I came up with my design utilizing some of the best points from Shop Notes.
To allow for a “Y” movement, I added an additional lead screw. (1/4” movement per revolution)That has proven valuable to obtain precise control in that direction and also allows the use of a router bit with a bearing to create some very interesting designs (utilizing the side of the bit). I included positive stops in the “X “ direction to obtain uniformity of the parts turned, and also can disengage the lead screw to allow for free movement while fluting a spindle. I also have welded 2 nuts together for the “Direction to eliminate as much backlash as possible.
Being the lazy person that I am and getting tired of turning the hand crank, I also added an extra gear that can be tied to the slow speed on my cordless drill. Utilizing the drill’s clutch and the stops in the “X” direction you can achieve good repeatability. Just for the record, I am not an engineer and have no access to a metal lathe or mill. I do however have a wilder and sawzall.
When I started this thread, I had no idea of the wide spread interest that would be created, nor the number of views that the thread would receive. As requested, I did make a Sketch Up model of my turning contraption which is free upon request. If nothing else, it might help to give you more ideas of your own. If you should want a copy, send me a private e-mail. 

Dick


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

*Headstock Shafts*

I am posting this photo for all of those who are interested in building a Router Lathe of their own, I understand that there are a few different views on how this should be done however this is how I am doing it, the smaller shaft shown here that has my SuperNova Lathe Chuck attached to it will soon be fitted into a new “Rotating, Indexed, Jig” that I am making for use on my small Router Table, details of that new Jig will follow later on a different thread as it is more to do with the use of a Router Table as a Profile Shaper however I am putting the Shaft photos here for everyone’s general information as this is the exact method I will use in the construction of the “Head Stock Assembly” for use on my Router Lathe, A device that I have referred to as “A Timber Mill” 

The longer shaft shown in the photo that does not have the SuperNova Chuck fitted to it was made for use on the as yet “Unfinished Router Lathe”, it was machined at the same time as the shorter shaft. I have made some similar “Index-able Rotation Jigs” in the past and even though they did/do work OK I still found that I had a minor “exact re-centering issue” that was so annoying that it did have to be fixed sometime and also, I could not put Table Columns or Table and Chair Legs into the old jig, and as is normal with Jig making then I have some better ideas now that I did not have when I made the old one so the new jig is being made, that centering issue is that a work piece that had been on my Wood Lathe could not be “easily, exactly centered” in the “old Indexed Jig” and there were a few irritating problems because of that.

As a Professional I have become a solid believer in my use of “The Router Lathe” and I am making one, when it is finished it will be somewhat different to the others shown on this thread, however just now I am building a House and that takes most of my time and my mother, who is eighty, has had Cardiac Surgery and she has my total attention, but as I can see many areas where me having a Working Router Lathe will help me and that idea, that is, that I would be able to machine wood with indexed mortises, indexed flat areas and indexed trenching, and as well as, I wanted to be able to do “Indexed Spiral Fluting” so all that is exactly why I am building a Router Lathe, and there is also this, I wanted to be able to “standardize some portions of various work pieces” that is, I wanted the same finished diameters, and accurate placement, inc being exactly square to, and Parallel with, the center line, of certain parts of the work, without me having to spend hours on each one, this goal was what brought me to the Router Forum in the first place and I have seen some very good ideas so I wanted to share some of my own ideas, however, as I still will be using my “Wood Lathe” for some of the work processes, and then there is also this new “Rotating Indexed Box” which will do some other processes, so due to the fact that I will be moving work pieces from one of these three following things to any one of the other three, (Wood Lathe, Router Lathe, and Rotation Index Box) then I intend to solve that Centering Problem by being able to fit the SuperNova Chuck to all three devices and therefore as each work piece will be held in the exact same way each time it is worked on then the centering problem will go away. There is also some other reasons why I am doing it this way, that includes quicker item change over and, I did see some vibration/movement problems with the homemade chuck that I used in the old box and, I expected that there may also be some smaller vibration problems with a Router Lathe that did not use this type of chuck to hold the work piece and, I wanted the work pieces to rotate perfectly straight and very freely, so that meant using roller bearings on the head stock shaft, so this shaft design fixes all of those things but not having a metal lathe then I had to pay to have them made, Generally I decided that if the work piece was held by the SuperNova Chuck every time it was being worked on then all that vibration/centering/movement issue would go away as this type of chuck can hold items very firmly, so as I believe that this shaft design will work very well then if anyone wanted to make a similar shaft and then use it in their own Router Lathe construction then they should consider doing that. 

Now that I have the two shafts made then I am now going to make the indexing wheels. NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

dick in ia said:


> Bruce has done an exceptional job of explaining and also improving the Shop Notes version for router turning. He has been far more descriptive in presenting his machine than I could ever be.
> I don’t want to step on Bruce’s toes but did want to make a few comments as to why I didn’t follow the Shop Notes version for router turning. Instead I came up with my design utilizing some of the best points from Shop Notes.
> To allow for a “Y” movement, I added an additional lead screw. (1/4” movement per revolution)That has proven valuable to obtain precise control in that direction and also allows the use of a router bit with a bearing to create some very interesting designs (utilizing the side of the bit). I included positive stops in the “X “ direction to obtain uniformity of the parts turned, and also can disengage the lead screw to allow for free movement while fluting a spindle. I also have welded 2 nuts together for the “Direction to eliminate as much backlash as possible.
> Being the lazy person that I am and getting tired of turning the hand crank, I also added an extra gear that can be tied to the slow speed on my cordless drill. Utilizing the drill’s clutch and the stops in the “X” direction you can achieve good repeatability. Just for the record, I am not an engineer and have no access to a metal lathe or mill. I do however have a wilder and sawzall.
> ...


This is all exactly correct Dick, NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

brucenelson said:


> This is the last post that I will submit on the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig this year. It concerns modifying of the router carriage (as described in the ShopNotes plans) to permit flats to be machined on the workpiece. After I completed the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig as specified in the plans, it became apparent to me that it lacked the capability to conveniently machines flats or tenons slots on the workpiece. So, I modified the carriage as shown in the following photos.
> 
> The first photo shows the actual modification to the carriage. It shows how a wide feature was machined in the carriage to accommodate the router sled shown in the second photo. You may also notice the two acme nuts on the lead screw. These two nuts mounted in their UMHW plastic mountings allow me to remove any backlash between the screw and the nuts.
> 
> ...


Bruce your ten new images are very nice and thanks for sharing them, do say what you think about my headstock assembly. NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

stanley90150m said:


> some more imagination ..... just found these photos on the 'wow' site .... 'world of woodturners'. worth a visit. wonderful range of talent and some exquisite turnings from around the world.
> 
> router turning. photos of doug mainse who evidently thinks in a similar direction to me regarding large turnings. he's done it far better and really produces vs my curious explorations.
> 
> ...


Richard I am very impressed with your dedication to your large lathe, that could not have been easy to build. NGM


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Dear Bruce Thanks for going to the trouble to look at what I have done and to answer what I write however the post that you did make to answer me appears to have been deleted, still, the headstock assembly is only part of the whole thing and I feel comfortable with my whole plan. I did start out to have this made with the stock parts you referred to as I had someone lined up to do it and he is machining shafts that way for use in “handmade Rose Engines”, so I did have that material for a while before I gave up on waiting for him to do it, so I paid for it to be done commercially and they also made the comment you made, that is if I had of gone to them with no material at all then we may have just made the shafts out of suitable “steel blank stock” however this does work and I also get the hex nut to grab it with and that may not have been there so easy if the shafts had of been turned. I have not been following the “shop notes plans at all” in fact I don’t have a copy of them, I will look at that sometime but I have not so far as I am not copying the router lathes featured here and the one that I am making will be a new design that does include features that I have seen on this thread.

I did consider the use of morse #2 tapers but I am committed to the use of the Nova Chuck as there are at least three machines that I will use do some work on the timber parts, one is my normal lathe, one is the as yet unfinished Router Lathe (I have a fully developed plan for that and now I just need the time, my mother’s heart surgery has made me give her my total attention and it is only now that she is well enough for me to leave her alone), the last is the rotation indexed jig that the shorter shaft was made for and that will be finished in the next few weeks, I will be posting the JPG’s of that soon, but as I always saw that I would move items from one of these to any of the others then I wanted to be able to hold the work piece the same way regardless of what it was in, hence the plan is to use the Nova Chuck all the time so that is why I am committed to use that and I am not sure what you mean by, 

“The disadvantage of using the Nova chuck as your only means of workpiece mounting is that you cannot re-mount the same workpiece in the router lathe in the same exact position for subsequent operations.”. 

I be marking one of the chucks jaws so that each time I grab an individual item it is the exact same way so I am confident that the workpiece will be held exact the same each time and that any variation will be very minor.

I am not sure what you mean by “the angular problem” however over the last few days I have been making the indexing wheels for this jig and they are now done, the method I used to make indexing wheels on their own jig is interesting in itself so I will post that soon, and I hope to have the whole thing done within a month, it is only being done as I have time but I am very keen to see it finished as I am very sure that this will work as I want it to.

There is also this, I was planning to rotate this jig by hand using a bike chain, however today I have decided to make timber gears, I did say in the past that I am very sure that I can make a jig that I can use to cut timber gears with any number of teeth, I am still sure that I can do that however I was not sure that I would, however the idea of making and using the timber gears has looked better and better so I will, sometime early next year I will do that and then make a pair of gears that I can use to rotate this jig, I will then power the rotation with a 18volt lithium screwdriver and as it is all on bearings the it will spin very freely. This jig was primarily being made to do cuts on the sides of Table legs and Columns as well as Chair legs, I will also use it to make some multi sided tool handles, in this indexed format then the cuts will be done with the work piece “stationary and set with the use of the indexing wheel” and it will make any multi sided objects of any shape, and with any number of sides, however I am now going to extend its use by “powering the rotation”, in that format it will be a new and unique “Router Lathe Copier” so that is a good reason to now make the jig to cut timber gears with a router, in the future I also will need those gears for the new and as yet unfinished Router Lathe, so that will happen as soon as I can. 

All I can say is watch this space as I will post the finished items as soon as I can. NGM


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I deleted my last comments because after writing them, I realized that your designs were not based on the ShopNotes machine, and as such were not relevant to your purposes. Feel free to continue with your efforts without my interference.


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce,

I have built the ShopNotes milling machine, but am now making adjustments to it so that I can turn it into a CNC lathe. I'm wondering about the plastic pieces you have installed on the flat-aluminum guide, as well as the plastic pieces you've installed with the two nuts on the Atlas threaded rod.

I've read thru this thread, but would like more info when you get a chance. I've also looked at your photos, but still would like to see and know more of your changes/recommendations.

Thanks in advance.
Joe D.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Joe D:
I will reply to your request for further info. The white plastic you see is UHMW, which is easily machined with woodworking tools. The white plastic pieces that you see the acme nuts mounted in is also UHMW. I machines the OD of the acme nuts to be pressed into holes in the UHMW pieces. I used my metal lathe for this. I left some of the hex of the nuts exposed so that I could adjust out the backlash between the nuts and the screw by rotating the nuts in their UHMW mounts. The press fit maintains their position. This feature would be advantageous to your plans to convert to cnc, and it would make ball srews unnecessary for the axis.

What material did you use to make your gears? Did you use the ShopNotes plans for the gears? There were some errors in the original ShopNotes plans for the gears. Did you get a revised set of those plans for making your gears. If you did, I would like to obtain some information of the revised gear teeth, specifically the outside diameters of the gears in the revised plans.


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce,

Thanks for your reply. No, I didn't see the corrections to the ShopNotes gears, and yes, I did make them from the templates that I downloaded from the ShopNotes site.

I've modified my machine a bit, added slip strips to the back router holder to reduce friction, and I've switched the pin on the endstock to a bearing lathe center. I've also added a pulley to replace the handcrank gear section and use an old garage motor with a rheostat to turn the workpiece.

I find it difficult to make accurate adjustments despite the rulers, and rather than install a digital readout, I plan to use CNC and monitor the actual router position using standard G-code. I have extensive experience with computers and electronics so this won't be a problem for me.

What I'm looking for now is to reduce friction on the Atlas Rod as much as possible. The slippery plastic pieces you used for the bottom rotor guide and the nuts appear to be my next move.

I'm still researching the CNC stepper motors, and accessories, and will continue reading routerforum CNC section for ideas.

Thanks for your help. I'll be glad to share my knowledge and experience with you and all.

Joe D.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Joe, 
Do you have drawings for your machine?
Thanks, Larry


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Larry,

I have a PDF of the router milling machine if you would like. E-mail me, and I'll send it to you. Use my default USTV America email below.

[email protected]


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Just wanted to upload 3 photos of my router milling machine. I had an old garage door motor, so I hitched it up to the machine. I wired it to a dimmer switch as well as a DPDT and old computer fan that I had so that I can use the machine without cranking the gears.

I installed a DPDT so that I could reverse the motor and control rotation to match which side of the router bit I was cutting on. This gives me an extremely smooth finish on the turning piece and all edges.

Still trying to find stepper motor adequate enough to turn large 1"-5 Acme rod plus a suitable coupler.

Joe D.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Don't see the photos.


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## richtink (Dec 5, 2012)

Super job. I know a lot of computations went into those plans and detailed plans would be well received. Then the CNC'ers could wire it up and motorize it for us.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Joe, 
It looks like you use a belt for the drive. Woudn't a chain drive be better?
Larry


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## richtink (Dec 5, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> To those of you that have requested the accurate hole location for the left hand plate on the ShopNotes spiral router milling machine, I have included this in my attachments. You can read it clearly by double clicking on the image. It has all the necessary hole locations for cutting right and left hand spirals. Will NOT work for gears shown on ShopNotes plans.
> 
> I have shown two different gear patterns for the 4 13/16 pitch spiral in both LEFT and RIGHT hand spirals. Notice that there is an extra 10 tooth gear in the RIGHT hand illustration. This illustration also shows where the extra holes for reverse spirals are located in the end plate. The dimensions do not appear very clear in this illustration, but you can easily get them off the list of x and y location. When making this end plate, you will need to add 2 inches to the height of the end plate to accommodate the new hole locations at the top of the plate. These new hole locations were not anticipated in the original ShopNotes plans.
> 
> ...


I missed this page when I posted last. Thanks for this.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

How accurate do you have to be for the hole layout, and Gears?
Thanks


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Woodie,

I had no trouble with the gears. All I had to do is make the simple jigs posted in the article and carefully drill out the holes and cut the final gear teeth. I had the original magazine article somewhere, but I didn't build the router milling machine until this year. So, the PDF I obtained must have had the corrections to the gears since they all seem to work. You can't cut left handed spirals though, unless you use Bruce Nelson's measurements. Might just be easier to buy the gears from him.

I don't use the gears much because it's slow and cumbersome. I added an old garage door motor to turn the workpiece so I can concentrate on the layout and the cuts. 

As for the belt drive, what I like about it is that it will slip if the router binds with the workpiece for any reason. A belt drive would simply break one or the other. The fact that all garage door motors are reversible lets me cut right and left into the router bit giving me a much cleaner surface and edge. Far less final sanding.

Joe D.




Here is a guide to how best to do the gears:

How to make wooden gears


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Rich,

Making the router milling machine was simple, but time consuming. Use INCRA measurement tools and everything lined up perfectly. But, both Bruce and I have made numerous improvements to reduce friction, re-inforce the workpiece as it turns, and Bruce has added router platform movement to his.

I'll keep the forum informed of my progress in turning this into a CNC router lathe.

Joe D.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

The sole purpose of the gears is to machine forward and reverse spiral patterns on spindles mounted in the lathe. They allow for a certain range of leads (distances between the grooves of the spiral). It is difficult to see how this can be replicated with cnc control of the router. I can see, however, the ability to machine different contours on the spindles if both axes (x and y) are computer controlled. This would require a sophisticated control system. It would also be best served with ball screws on both the x and y axes, rather than the acme screws that are used in the ShopNotes machine. The reason that I built the ShopNotes machine was to machine spindles with different spiral leads in both directions, and to machine straight reeding with a router. The fact that it can be used for straight and taper turning with a box coring cutter is a bonus in that a decorative spindle can be turned in its entirety with this machine. With a box coring cutter the width of the cut taken per revolution pretty much makes a power feed of the lead screw not necessary. After using this machine for a series of four complete identical spindles, I found that a power feed on the lead screw to be a hinderance rather than a benefit.

The fact that my machine has accurately machined gears and accurately spaced holes on my end plate on which the gears are mounted makes the process of changing the gear ratios a matter of minutes to perform. The gears have bronze bushing inserts, and are mounted in position on specially machined axles that are quickly re-positioned in their various holes on the end plates. Constructing these gears from Baltic Birch plywood makes for smooth running and long lasting gears. I use Johnsons paste wax for gear lubrication.

What I found to be the main problem in the use of this machine was the inability to stop the lead screw travel of the machine in an exact repeatable position. Solid adjustable stops were ineffective due to the force of the lead screw moving those adjustable screws. I found the solution to that problem was to install a digital readout system that shows the exact carriage position. This was solved for about 65 dollars for a 30 inch digital scale. I also purchased a 6 inch digital caliper that I will use as a digital readout of the depth position of the router.

I am very pleased with the ShopNotes router machine as it was designed. I have since machined a new set of gears and end plates that I have on hand. These items can be purchased from me at the price previously indicated. These gears have the Oillite bronze bushings already installed. The spindle gear needs special consideration for installing on the lead screw. The index wheel and 40 tooth gear also need special consideration for installing on the machine work spindle. This special consideration means that a metal lathe is required to make the special fittings that are required for the lead screw gear and the workpiece spindle index wheel and 40 tooth gear.

A metal lathe with a capacity to handle the acme lead screw is required to turn down both ends of the acme screw from the outside diameter of one inch to a finished diameter of .750 on the one end so that the spur gear can be fitted and the end of the lead screw can rotate in a .750 bronze bushing mounted in the headstock end plate. The other end of the lead screw should be supported by a 1.000 diameter bronze bushing mounted in the tailstock plate.

If nobody buys these gears and end plates, I will make a brand-new and more wonderful ShopNotes spiral router jig for myself. This machine will be designed to be broken down in portable sections so that it can be used to demonstrate to and edify a amazed and wondering public audience.


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce offers some really good mods to the ShopNotes milling machine for a really great price. If you are planning to build this machine, I definitely recommend that you purchase the gears from Bruce and follow all of his advice.

My needs right now are quite simple, and the mods I've made are appropriate for me in turning the simple legs and center posts for my business. I do have an order to replicate a historical desk used in the 1st US Congress, and I will use this machine to do the fluting on the legs. Other intricate details require hand turning on my old Rockwell lathe.

I want to thank Bruce for all the help he has provided me in tweaking the friction and play out of this machine. If I wasn't going the CNC route, I would definitely add the digital readouts that he is suggesting.

Joe D.


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

09


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

10


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

*My device.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W52exJUJkxY


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## Hutzul (Oct 4, 2012)

Looks pretty good George, Thank you for sharing


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Rj,

Can you show more of this jig setup you are routing with? What bearing and shaft are you using?

Можете ли вы показать больше этого кондуктор установки вы с маршрутизацией? Что подшипников и вала вы используете?

Joe D.


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

Спасибо, вы говорите на русском. Очень приятно. Я не использовал подшипники.
Только металлические втулки.


Thank you, you speak Russian. Very nice. I did not use bearings.
Only metal sleeve.


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

-----


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

seems like sears sold a rig that the router could sit upon in order to do some lathing of sorts, but your rig looks like it can handle ever so much more than the store bot one and sears does not still sell it, I think


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Google - перевод является вашим другом.

Красивая работа! Я вижу рукоятки на фото, но вы включите его с мотором?

----------------
Beautiful work! I see the hand crank in the photo, but do you turn it with a motor?


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

jdebott1 said:


> Google - перевод является вашим другом.
> 
> Красивая работа! Я вижу рукоятки на фото, но вы включите его с мотором?
> 
> ...



Oh, isn't present! It is the excess handle.
The router does rotation.




О, нет! Это лишняя рукоятка.
Маршрутизатор делает вращение.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I really appreciated the posts from the Russian member. Especially the grapic photo of the accident. Was Vodka really a factor in this accident, or was the photo staged? What did cigarettes have to do with this injury? I had a similar incident, but I don't like to talk about it. I especially like the turning fixture made out of dimension lumber. It looks like this was built with a single purpose in mind.


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## R.J. (Jun 1, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> I really appreciated the posts from the Russian member. Especially the grapic photo of the accident. Was Vodka really a factor in this accident, or was the photo staged? What did cigarettes have to do with this injury? I had a similar incident, but I don't like to talk about it. I especially like the turning fixture made out of dimension lumber. It looks like this was built with a single purpose in mind.




Russians - strange people.
Vodka for stress removal)))
Cigarettes - to calm nerves.

I don't drink vodka in shop.
I not madman))





Русские - странные люди.
Водка для снятия стресса)))
Папиросы - успокоить нервы.

Я не пью водку в магазине.
Я не сумасшедший ))


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

R.J. said:


> Oh, isn't present! It is the excess handle.
> The router does rotation.
> 
> 
> ...


It would appear that the crank is necessary on the first pass to get the cut started, but afterwards becomes unneccessary. If it had been up to me, I would have provided for a slow means of rotation by some auxiliary power (probably a DeWalt battery powered drill, and would have used a bowl cutting bit for the turning. But hey, that's me!


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bowl cutting bit works great for me on the milling machine. I'm intrigued by the large scale turnings RJ, and will have to look at building a jig like yours.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Is anyone building one? Any Photos?


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## jeremylinot (Jun 5, 2009)

*Planning My Build*

I'm preparing to start my build here in the next week or so. As of right now my intention is to generally follow the Shopnotes directions for the gearing of it. However I'm going to build it with rails as Dick In IA has done. I also plan to incorporate XY&Z movements for the router, as well as possible horizontal mounting of the router for end-grain. See below.

Lastly, if at all possible this is all going to be tied together with a Rose Engine Lathe (thus the need for the horizontal mounting). I honestly haven't figured out how to do this yet, because the need of the headstock to sway pretty much means that it's impossible to use the same steel rod to rotate the wood for the router lathe and for the Rose Lathe too.

I may overcome this by simply placing the Rose Engine headstock inside of the overall enclosure of the Router Lathe. If I could find some sort of swivel attachment that would not constrain the headstock movements of the Rose Engine then I could still use one rod and handle to drive rotation.

I will post pictures to demonstrate what I have in mind when my post limitations have been lifted.

I have been a member of this forum for quite some time, however I'm just getting back into woodworking. But I'm a prolific collector of information, and in the past few days I have collected the full issue of Shopnotes 115 in pdf format (already had that), the Router Lathe schematics from Router Magic (pdf), and two separate plans for Rose Engine Lathes. I would gladly provide these to anyone whom interested.

So what do you all think, anybody have any ideas of how to successfully blend these two devices together as I plan to attempt?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

jeremylinot said:


> I will post pictures to demonstrate what I have in mind when my post limitations have been lifted.


There is no limitations to post pictures which are stored on your own PC, the limitation is in posting links (url) for pictures on a web hosting site..


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## jeremylinot (Jun 5, 2009)

jw2170 said:


> There is no limitations to post pictures which are stored on your own PC, the limitation is in posting links (url) for pictures on a web hosting site..


Oh good to know. Well I guess I need to get what I'm thinking out of my head and into a drawing lol.

As far as tying the two of them together, I believe that I've come up with a solution after talking to one of our project engineers here at work. I feel like an idiot for not coming up with it on my own cause it seems so simple now. Anyway what I need is a universal joint to allow spinning and rocking at the same time. 

So I'll either buy one from McMaster-Carr, or I'll make a wooden one given the slow rotational speeds of the shafts.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

jeremylinot said:


> I'm preparing to start my build here in the next week or so. As of right now my intention is to generally follow the Shopnotes directions for the gearing of it. However I'm going to build it with rails as Dick In IA has done. /QUOTE]
> 
> Have you started making your lathe yet?
> If I can give you any ideas, or if you can help me improve what I have done...
> ...


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## camoz (Jan 31, 2012)

Got given a copy of shopnotes #115 last week, loved the idea of the router lathe, someone suggested I look at this thread, and I am glad I did, this is a great thread with lots of info.

Cheers,

Camo


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

camoz said:


> Got given a copy of shopnotes #115 last week, loved the idea of the router lathe, someone suggested I look at this thread, and I am glad I did, this is a great thread with lots of info.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Camo


An alternative to the Shopnotes version that uses wood gears, there is one in the book "Router Magic" that uses bike gears and chains. I picked one up on Abebooks for a few bucks.

The commercial version is the Legacy Ornamental Mill. It is only a router lathe, and not an ornamental mill. For an ornamental mill you have to look at Holtzapffel and Rose mills.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Camo:
If you look at my uploads, you will see detailed illustrations of the ShopNotes router lathe.


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## WoodTricks (Jan 28, 2013)

So does anyone have a scanner and that issue (shopnotes 115) to share the plans for the machine? I haven't found a place that has back issues and i'm waiting for a reply from the company.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

JDEBOTT says that he has a PDF file of this machine.


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## cgv2000 (Jan 22, 2010)

I would like to have a copy of your Sketch Up file. 

[email protected]


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## godwinmillworks (Feb 25, 2013)

jeremylinot
hey i would like a copy of the plans from shopnotes 115 and the others that you have. Thanks david email- [email protected]gmail.com


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Any more develops with this? Just checking.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Just want to verity that the Gears are cut using the patterns from Shop Notes?
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Just replying about the gears. The gears that are included on the ShopNotes templates are suspect as to their correctness. What I would recommend is that you go to the website woodgears.ca and purchase the gear template software. This software allows you to draw the necessary gear shapes. You can use the dimensions that I give in my uploads for the gears. The important dimensions are the outside diameters and the pitch diameters. If you follow these, then the hole locations for the end plates will work. I am convinced that the woodgears.ca templates are the way to go, and they can be cut to the required accuracy on a bandsaw.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I just got done downloading the practice copy of woodgears.ca gear generating software and used it to match the known dimensions that I had determined by drawing the gears and endplates in my Mastercam cad/cam system and using Mastercam's gear generating software to draw the gears. The following variable entries that I entered in the woodgears.ca practice copy caused the gears to be generated that very closely matched those generated in Mastercam. 

DIAMETRAL PITCH: 3.500
CONTACT ANGLE: 14.5
ADDENDUM: .325
SLOP: .005

Entering these variables in the proper places will cause the woodgears.ca software to produce the proper dimensions in the gears for the ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig, and if the holes in the end plates are drilled in the locations shown in my hole tables, they will work properly. This program costs $26 and is downloadable from their web site. The templates are printed on a injet printer. I have no connection with this company. I happened upon their website, and am convinced that you can make accurate gears using a fine toothed blade in a band saw


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Do you or would do any modification to the machine?
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

If you will view my uploads, you will see examples of modifications that I have made to the Spiral Router Jig.

1) Addition of a means to move the router sideways so as to machine flats on the workpiece.

2) Addition of a digital readout that displays the lengthwise position of the router spindle. This greatly facilitates the machining of workpieces to print specifications. I am going to add a digital readout to display the depth of the router tool.

3) Addition of a pin drive mechanism to facilitate the ability to relocate the workpiece rotationally. This also allows the workpieces to be swapped without losing position when doing multiple workpieces.

These features greatly add to the usefulness of the Spiral Router Jig as a accurate production machine. I find that a box core router bit is the most suitable for machining flats, and machining straight and tapered diameters.

I will not reproduce drawings from the ShopNotes magazine concerning the plans for the Spiral Router Jig, as I feel that this would be in violation of copyright laws. However, I did furnish the directions for accurate reproduction of the gears, and the positioning of the gears on the end plate of the Spiral Router Jig. These gear locations will accommodate the different gear combinations that are possible with the gears originally specified in the drawings of the Spiral Router Jig. The gear location holes will also accommodate both right-hand and left-hand spirals. The original plans only accommodates only right-hand spirals. If you are building this machine, note that you need to make the end plates 2 inches taller to accommodate the additional hole locations that I have provided to allow left-hand spirals


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

If you where going to build one of the machines what one would you build, Dick iin Ia or Brucenlson?
Thanks


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## Stubbornrookie (Mar 16, 2013)

wow! That is amazing!


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

woodie26 said:


> If you where going to build one of the machines what one would you build, Dick iin Ia or Brucenlson?
> Thanks


Holy Crap! Just make your own mind up! This is not a contest between Dick in Ia and Bruce Nelson.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I just want to do one build.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*build*



woodie26 said:


> I just want to do one build.


if your tight on room build Bruce's one, if you have the space do both,I don't know if Bruce has published the gears for his yet but it is very precise and won't fit the router miller from the mag,

MAC.:jester:


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

All Bruce and I are saying is to pick one and "just do it"
Both of us are just in it to help anyone with an intrest.
Dick


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## whitt3rx (Mar 21, 2013)

*Advice*



brucenelson said:


> I have been looking for a forum to talk about the Shopnotes Spiral router milling machine that I built from their plans. I have attached some pictures of this machine with a sample project mounted in it. I got the plans out of the December 2010 Shopnotes milling machine. Although I downloaded the templates for the gears from their website, I did not use them in the manufacture of this machine.
> 
> Instead, I used the gear design software from Mastercam, and I machined the gears on my Techno-Isel cnc router, which produced accurate smooth running gears with practically no backlash. The Shopnotes plans show only 2 hole locations in the end plates. After designing the gears, I learned what their diametral pitches were, and also their pitch diameters. From this information, I was able to find their accurate hole locations on the machine end plates. The Shopnotes plans did not allow for locations of idler gears to reverse spiral rotations. You can observe from the sample project that I did this.
> 
> I felt that the amount of work invested in this project should warrant the use of baltic birch plywood throughout the project instead of MDF. I bought 2 four by eight foot sheets for about 75 dollars a sheet.


I am currently building router milling machine, noticed that there are no plans for the drive gear...got to thinking that this may not be a problem, and I do have plants for the 40tooth 11 13/16 gear from shop notes.....any help would be greatly appreciated...

James


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Both the Shop Notes version and mine use the 40 tooth gear. Tied into the drive gear is an indexing head which works will. That will give the reduction for most of your spiral and turning needs. I also use a 20 tooth gear at times in the drive location to completely change the gearing ratio.

Dick


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

whitt3rx said:


> I am currently building router milling machine, noticed that there are no plans for the drive gear...got to thinking that this may not be a problem, and I do have plants for the 40tooth 11 13/16 gear from shop notes.....any help would be greatly appreciated...
> 
> James


If you look at the second page of my uploads, I have a table of the gear tooth dimensions that I used for my version of the ShopNotes router jig. The 40 tooth has an outside diameter of 12 inches. The 30 tooth has an outside diameter of 9.14286. The 20 tooth has an outside diameter of 6.28571. The 10 tooth has an outside diameter of 3.42853. You can round these numbers off to the nearest thousandth. To get templates to cut out these gears on a band saw, I recommend using the WoodGears gear generating software, and plug in the values from the gear tooth table that I have in my downloads. Also notice that if you use my gear tooth dimensions and the WoodGears.ca software, you can also use the hole location pattern that I have listed in my downloads. If you do use these, make sure that you add 2 inches to the height of the end plates, to accommodate the extra hole locations needed for left and right hand spirals. 

The use of the WoodGears.ca software I explain in my post #258, you need to go to their web site and purchase it for $28.00. It can be downloaded so that you can use it right away. Notice the extra entries that need to be made to match my gears with the WoodGears.ca generated gears, concerning diametral pitch, contact angle, addendum, and slop. These entries, other than number of teeth and outside diameter, are necessary to match the gear tooth form generated by the WoodGears software to match my gear tooth dimensions.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

http://www.lignolathe.com

Check out this website for some eye-popping developments in spiral turning and spiral fluting. It's going to take some machining ability, but I can forsee that a standard Jet mini-lathe can be outfitted to do what is done here. I have one at home that could be a candidate for such a converstion.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> Lignotec
> 
> Check out this website for some eye-popping developments in spiral turning and spiral fluting. It's going to take some machining ability, but I can forsee that a standard Jet mini-lathe can be outfitted to do what is done here. I have one at home that could be a candidate for such a converstion.


wow,but have you seen the price tag,not for the faint hearted, MAC.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

brucenelson said:


> Lignotec
> 
> Check out this website for some eye-popping developments in spiral turning and spiral fluting. It's going to take some machining ability, but I can forsee that a standard Jet mini-lathe can be outfitted to do what is done here. I have one at home that could be a candidate for such a converstion.


Hi Bruce,I also have a mini lathe and an extension piece,I have modified my mini and can now turn 14"platters and bowls,I had A Legacy Revo but sold it,as you stated the work shown on their site is out of my reach for now,so,if you are dreaming up how to adapt your mini to do that type of work I would really appreciate you passing on the details and then I can have a go,
MAC.


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## WoodTricks (Jan 28, 2013)

woodie26 said:


> If you where going to build one of the machines what one would you build, Dick iin Ia or Brucenlson?
> Thanks


Hey Larry, I ordered a couple of copies from the publisher for the milling machine. So thanks anyway for trying to get a copy to me. 

I can do the same for others to scan and email. I just can't reply to messages till I get 10 posts. :blink:


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*Lignotec setup*

Hi all,bruce posted a web site for fancy router turning,boy it is fantastic work,but, i went into you tube and saw how it is all done, fascinating, just one downside ,hell i could build a lathe in the time it took to set up the lig.contraption,but it is tops no doubt about it,i'm going to utilize a small lathe i have to try to emulate most of what they are doing, should be fun, mac.:d


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

This is to bump this thread up higher in the list so that it does not disappear.:big_boss:


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Bruce, Have you done any work on the mini lathe?


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi woody,i'm also waiting to see what he comes up with,keep on routing, MAC.


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## Stewie D (Jun 15, 2013)

I just joined this site after seeing it linked to from some other wood working forums. I've been interested in this type of routing for a while and have gotten a lot of info from this thread.
Many thanks to all the contributors who have posted plans or tech info.

Stewie


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

G'day Stewart. Welcome to the forum.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi stewie, welcome to the best forum around, mac


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Is anyone doing any thing with a mini lathe?


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

*ShopNotes Router Milling Machine convert to CNC*

Okay, I've just finished converting my ShopNotes Router Milling Machine over to CNC control, and run a rounding G-code routine on a sample - extremely accurate, extremely smooth finish requiring little if any sanding. Wow! Works much better than I expected.

I'm posting photos now; will update info later.

JD


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Everything looks fantastic!
I would like to hear more....How big are the motors, what did you do for controllers,
What type of computer program are you using?
etc. etc.
Inquiring minds want to know.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I like. More infor Please!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Wow. Hadn't seen this thread before. Love the machine.


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Dick and all,

The 2 steppers running the Z-axis (router up and down) and the A-axis (lathe rotation or rotary) are Nema 23 stepper motors - 57BYGH603 1.0A 78mm Holding Toque:14.5kg-cm (205 oz-in) with unipolar; 20.3kg-cm(287oz-in) with bipolar. 

I purchased 3 of them, plus a TB6560 3-axis control board, 24V-8amp power supply, and parallel printer cable off of eBay all for $175.00 delivered.

The larger Nema 34 stepper running the gears on the 1” Acme Rod, and cables were purchased from CNC Router Parts for about $125 delivered.

Misc parts (including the 2 gears, belt, & attaching clamps for the 1” Acme screw) cost another $100 or so.

I am using an old Toshiba laptop with Windows XP. I built the controller box out of ply, and then downloaded Mach3 control software to run everything. I’m in the process of tweeking the system now. But, I have run a rounding routine on a sample 18” piece and it is so smooth I don’t even have to sand it.

I’ll post more later once I get this thing up to speed.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

What did you use for the the 2 gears and belt?
Thanks, Larry


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Larry,

The large gear is a 60-tooth hi-impact plastic timing gear that attaches to a 1" aluminum hub. The smaller gear is a 30-tooth timing gear that attaches directly to the 3/8" stepper motor shaft. The belt is plastic-fiberglass re-inforced 15-in (I believe). I did have to use an aluminum shim to get the aluminum hub to fit tightly on the 1" Atlas Rod. But, it all went together quite easily. As you can see, I did make my own stepper motor holders.

JD


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Joe,
I have considered doing something similar to my "turning contraption", just to have the challenge of doing it. I am proud of you for taking the next logical step in the evolution of the router lathe, and will be looking forward to seeing more details and some of your finished projects. 
I am not familiar with the programing, nor the controllers required. If you could provide more information, many people on the forum would be greatly appreciative.
I did price some of the stepper motors and controllers and decided that I didn't have enough electronics background to pursue going further. Congrats on doing a great job.
Dick


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Dick,

My CNC setup is quite simple, although I can see why it would seem daunting to someone with little electronic/programming experience.

I am putting together a list of parts that I purchased/used to mod my ShopNotes and I will post it soon. I will also put on an outline of the steps to convert any similar router machine over to CNC.

The greatest obstacle will be learning to use CAD/CAM software that will take you from basic drawing to a CAD file to CAM/G-code required to accurately run the machine. I have many years of electronic/programming experience, so this project has been easier than I expected. 

What I like about this CNC mod is that I have much more control and can do router turnings that I never could by hand.

JD


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

WELL DONE J.D.watching for more info on the electronics, MAC


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Did you ever get all the plywood gears built, and did you get the machine to turn straight and spiral features as was specified in the original plans? It looks to me that all on the holes in the endplate are not completed to the degree of the machine is operable conventionally.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

I want one.... lol and is there a minimum size for the project, or can this be made in a "mini" fashion (for those of us who won't be making large projects)?

LOVE the work, btw. I'm not a furniture maker, but may have to find a way to make four chairs for a pub-style table here shortly.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I have been following this thread off and on from the beginning, and I am at present a very interested observer. The best I can do right now is once in a while post something just to keep this thread up front. 
If I were in charge, this thread and all related would have a separate sub forum on the opening page, right below Portable Routing.
I see several different and mutually incompatible systems, and what I am planning would use two sets of gears, the ShopNotes gears and another set that would have compatible sized gears but more possible ratios.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

This is a picture of the legs that I made on my ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig, finally assembled as a base supporting a chest of jewelers drawers that I resurrected and re-finished. You can view my uploads to get a full description of how I built my ShopNotes Spiral Router Jig. This machine can turn the straight and tapered features on the legs, and can machine the straight and spiral flutes, plus it can machine the square portions of the legs and cut mortises in them to accept the tenons of the stretchers. I have installed digital readouts for the lengthwise locations of features. I also have a digital readout to indicate the depth of the router bit. These digital readouts allow me to make accurate settings for length and diameters, and to eliminate mistakes. If you look at my uploads, you will see some improvements that I have made on this machine. The main improvement that I made is to use top-notch materials, such as Baltic Birch plywood, and to finish it with urethane varnish. I did not use cheap flake board or MDF, as they attract moisture and become water-logged.

This machine can be considered as a industrial grade machine, and will permit reasonable production in doing the machining cuts that it was designed for.

I will not adapt cnc technology to this project, as I do not consider this machine as a suitable candidate for cnc control. It works just fine when built as designed. I think that I have said about all that I care to on this subject.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Bruce, May I ask where you got your digital readouts ?
Thanks, Larry


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

woodie26 said:


> Bruce, May I ask where you got your digital readouts ?
> Thanks, Larry


I'm pretty sure that Rockler carries them. They make them in various lengths, I used the 30 inch length, cost less than $50. As far as the Z readout, I used a cheap digital caliper.

Bruce


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

*ShopNotes CNC Controller and Toshiba Laptop*

Mac and all,

The electronics to control the ShopNotes CNC are quite simple. I have a 3-axis TB6560 Control board, a 24V 8Amp power supply, and I am using Mach3 software to run it all.

The stepper motor on the Atlas Rod is a 3Amp, while the other two (Z-axis router table & X-Axis spindle) are just 1Amp. I have tuned the TB6560 and the motors so that none have to run at more than 1/2 max current.

Home switches tell the Mach3 software where "HOME" is, and they also act as safety switches to stop the machine if it runs out of bounds. Safe limits, so to speak.

Everything works very smoothly and accurately. I'm amazed that it was so easy.

The hard part, of course, is generating the Gcode necessary to run the CNC. But, I've cracked that "NUT" just a few minutes ago with OpenSource software packages and a free CAD program.

I created a 2D DXF drawing of a Shaker Candlestand centerpost in ViaCad program (very easy to use), then imported it into GMAX (free 3D modeling program). I then used the CNC ToolKit (free ToolPath and Gcode creator) to develop a ToolPath for this centerpost, and then generate Gcode to cut it. Very simple, really.

I have begun a full synopsis of my ShopNotes conversion, and hope to post it on the forum next week. This should give members an idea of what is involved, as well as the total cost of modification or new ShopNotes build.

More to come.

Joe D.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Joe D.
Thanks for your last posting. I will be looking forward to hearing more next week.
Dick


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Ready to build!


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

jdebott1 said:


> Mac and all,
> 
> The electronics to control the ShopNotes CNC are quite simple. I have a 3-axis TB6560 Control board, a 24V 8Amp power supply, and I am using Mach3 software to run it all.
> 
> ...


Looks like to me that your GMAX program is generating a 4th axis cutter path. All the little vertical lines represent the tool position as the workpiece rotates. How does this work on a 3 axis machine?

Bruce


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## Vallyena (Aug 23, 2013)

Hello, I am new on this forum.
Can someone help me with sketches to try to realize lathe made ​​brucenelson.
Do not know English, and to post on this forum using Google Translate, if there are mistakes please understand.
Congratulations on completed projects, those who are beginners, where we learn.
Thanks in advance.


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

Hello Bruce,if this was intended for me,thank you for your concern,yes I made all the gears and all the peripherals but found I was over ambitious,just didn't have the room to set it all up,BUT,I'm treating my self to a new workshop soon 12x8.solely for routing 
and lathe,I have to arrange a crew to lay concrete for the base and an electrition for the sparks, once that is sorted I intend to change my build and do it your way,seems much better,especially with the new gear range and improvements,so will be watching all your posts for info. MAC.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Bruce, 
Do you have your build and modifications documented some where?
Thank, Larry


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

woodie26 said:


> Bruce,
> Do you have your build and modifications documented some where?
> Thank, Larry


Larry:
They are documented fully on this forum. For pictures, and locations of holes on the end plate, see my uploads, they are there. For further discussion on the subject, I have gone through my posts. The identification numbers of the pertinent posts are 260, 258, 257, 227, 215, 204, 202, 193, 196, 199, and 190. If you read these posts, you will find that I have answered the questions that were asked of me.

Concerning the building of gears for this machine, I would strongly suggest that you buy the gear generating software from Woodgears.ca. and generate the gears from the dimensions that I have listed in my tables, these dimensions and hole locations I consider accurate, as I have double checked them. I don't think the information that was provided by ShopNotes was accurate, as there was some complaints.

Also, I strongly suggest that all parts be made from 3/4" Baltic Birch. The amount of work that goes into this project warrants it. Also, note that the end plate needs to be 2 inches higher than specified in the ShopNotes drawings to accommodate the hole locations for the reversing gears. 

Also make sure that you obtain a copy of the original plans from ShopNotes for the construction of this machine. The only thing that my notes refer to is gear tooth dimensions and hole locations in order to obtain reverse spirals.

Bruce


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce,

I am running the Y-Axis as an "A"-axis rotary -- The Y Axis is set at 0, and disabled.

It works very well, although I need to learn more about the various Scripts in the CNC Toolkit to maximize the capabilities of modeling and ToolPath/G-code creation in GMAX.

You can see how this 4th axis GMAX method works in this YouTube Video:

CNC-Toolkit-4-axis.avi - YouTube


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## MACswag (Feb 28, 2012)

*Baltic birch*

Hello Bruce you are so right as far as Baltic birch is concerned, I managed to locate some here in the U/K.only thing is it cost an arm an a leg, still if you want quality you have to pay,seems everyone is out to make a fast pound for little effort,the world today, MAC.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

jdebott1 said:


> Mac and all,
> 
> The electronics to control the ShopNotes CNC are quite simple. I have a 3-axis TB6560 Control board, a 24V 8Amp power supply, and I am using Mach3 software to run it all.
> 
> ...


Anything yet?


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

woodie,

Yes, I am now turning pieces with my CNC. But, I've had little time to put all my experiences down on paper.

What I can say is that I would definitely go the CNC route if I had known more before making the Shopnotes machine. But, I also would use the Shopnotes build article to make this CNC lathe.

What I have learned is that I can easily load square stock, round it quickly using a flat-bottom dish bit, and accurately cut angles, curves, and every profile using my current set of router cutters. But, and that's a BIG BUT, anyone thinking of going the CNC route must have a good working knowledge of trig and geometry, plus some basic understanding of computer programming. Otherwise, be prepared to pay big bucks for software that will do all the computations and gcode for you.

I am still tweaking my Shopnotes CNC conversion to cut more quickly and accurately using stationary tools along with the router. I'm trying to match the capabilities of $100,000 machines like Intorex. I already have the 4th axis capabilities of the Legacy 4th axis machine you can watch on Youtube.

That's all for now. I will get around to posting more, and try to take a video of doing a simple Shaker piece.

JD


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## amilla (Nov 21, 2011)

Fascinating Joe. 4th axis on a shopnote manual machine. Nice going.


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce,

I'm still tweaking my ShopNotes CNC mod and I have found that the Atlas 1" rod deflects about .5 mm near the center of the turning. If you watch the traveler blocks you'll see this slight deflection.

While I can allow for this using Gcode modifications, I'm wondering if you dealt with this problem in any way?

I'm looking at ways to change the way the Atlas Rod traveler block setup to eliminate this deflection, perhaps by supporting the Atlas rod more in the center. I'm also looking at incorporating compression springs on the traveler blocks to see if that might be a quick solution.

Joe D.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

jdebott1 said:


> Bruce,
> 
> I'm still tweaking my ShopNotes CNC mod and I have found that the Atlas 1" rod deflects about .5 mm near the center of the turning. If you watch the traveler blocks you'll see this slight deflection.
> 
> ...


It appears to me that you didn't use the acme threaded rod listed in the ShopNotes plans. This has a 1 1/8 inch diameter, so it is somewhat stiffer. Also another reason that you chose the 1 inch diameter screw was that the screw pitch was probably 8 or 10 threads per inch, which would probably be more compatible with your cnc system. When I bought my screw, I bought it from MSC with 2 matching acme nuts. I turned the OD of the nuts and pressed them in blocks that I made from UHMW plastic, instead of the wood that the plans specified. The pressed fit between the nuts and the UHMW carrier blocks allow a method to take up lost motion (anti-backlash) between the acme threads on the nuts and the screw. If you use a large water pump pliers on the hex portion of the nut, you can turn the nuts in their UHMW carrier blocks to eliminate backlash between the nuts and the screw. This will also provide a better support for getting rid of the rod flex. Is this a lead screw that came out of a Atlas lathe? I was wondering what the connection was with Atlas.

You know that a acme thread screw, (or any other thread form) has backlash, which makes it undesirable for cnc operation. However the method that I have described for eliminating backlash will work in a pinch. If you want a screw and nut without backlash, you need to use a ball screw and nut.

Bruce


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

jdebott1 said:


> Bruce,
> 
> I'm still tweaking my ShopNotes CNC mod and I have found that the Atlas 1" rod deflects about .5 mm near the center of the turning. If you watch the traveler blocks you'll see this slight deflection.
> 
> ...


Joe,
Is deflection or backlash the problem you are finding?
If it is backlash---I solved the problem by using 2-nuts and brazing them together to eliminate the slop within the thread.

Dick


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Bruce and Dick,

I haven't experienced the backlash you mentioned, and I did use the Acme screw listed in the article. But, I did extend the ShopNotes by more than 8" so that I could turn Shaker chair parts. That could be the problem.

I've solved my problem by making moveable rod supports using bearings. Now, I can quickly adjust the bearing supports for each particular turning length and I experience no backlash or deviation.

Still have a couple of bugs to work out, but the CNC ShopNotes is coming along. If I hadn't built the ShopNotes as a mechanical unit first, I would have gone a different route for making this CNC.

Here's a link to another guy's mod of an old lathe:

Chris Glad's project notes...: Router lathe build

Joe D.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Joe,
Any more information to post?
Thanks


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## garylkennedy (Nov 8, 2013)

I have become fascinated with the router mill. Thanks for the information.


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## garylkennedy (Nov 8, 2013)

*router mill*

Any information or dimensions for the router mill would be greatly appreciated. 
I have been researching this for weeks until I finally stumbled upon this forum. I would like to build one for myself in order to expand my shop offerings. 
Thanks in advance for anything you can share.

QUOTE=brucenelson;265167]What seems like extra holes in the spiral router jig end plates is one extra hole for each gear combination for different leads in the spirals. These holes are to add an idler gear for providing a reverse spiral for each gear combination. An improvement for these extra holes would be to make the end plate one inch higher to accommodate the extra hole spacing. Another improvement that I made is to make the whole machine 8 inches longer to accommodate 48 inch spindles. Another improvement that I made is to make the mounting for the router to slide sideways 2 inches each side of the center line. This allows machining of square portions on the spindles, and machining mortises in these square portions. I have the x any y locations of the holes in the end plates, and the exact dimensions of the gears. I will not post this information on this forum, but will provide it to anyone who e-mails me; identifying yourself and where you are located, and how you will be utilizing this information. As far as contacting ShopNotes magazine and furnishing them with this information; I tried to do this, but they did not respond with any interest. It doesn't appear to me that they have any mechanism to serve as a forum for subscribers who complete their projects. As a matter of fact, I have had difficulty finding any forum that was interested.

That said, I will probably make another spiral router jig, incorporating the taller end plates, improved sliding surfaces on the router carriage, improved spindle with a #2 morse taper and a threaded spindle nose to accommodate lathe chucks. I also intend to add digital readouts for all 3 axes, as it is difficult to make lengthwise and diameter settings using the stick on scales alone.

I have found out that this machine is more robust than it appears in the ShopNotes video. Turning cuts at least 1/4 inch is depth and 7/8 inch in width were accomplished easily. This makes the machine to approach production capabilities.[/QUOTE]


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Gary.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

garylkennedy:

Thank you for your interest in my Shopnotes Spiral router mill. As I have previously stated, it is a true industrial quality machine when made to the ShopNotes published drawings, but using Baltic Birch plywood instead of the crap that they made it out of. Baltic birch does not have inclusions or gaps in the interior plys so it works well for making gears. Pay attention to the other improvements that I have described, such as making the end plates 2 inches higher to accommodate the extra holes necessary for reversing direction of rotation which you will want for criss-crossing spiral patterns. Also extend the length of the machine by 8 inches to permit the machine to produce 4 foot long spindles. Also, put digital readouts on the length and depth to permit accurate settings. You can do this for less than 100 bucks. You can refer to the table of x and y locations for the holes in the end plate. You can contact me for other questions.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

That said, I will probably make another spiral router jig, incorporating the taller end plates, improved sliding surfaces on the router carriage, improved spindle with a #2 morse taper and a threaded spindle nose to accommodate lathe chucks. I also intend to add digital readouts for all 3 axes, as it is difficult to make lengthwise and diameter settings using the stick on scales alone


Bruce

How would improved the Sliding Surfaces?
Thanks


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

woodie26 said:


> That said, I will probably make another spiral router jig, incorporating the taller end plates, improved sliding surfaces on the router carriage, improved spindle with a #2 morse taper and a threaded spindle nose to accommodate lathe chucks. I also intend to add digital readouts for all 3 axes, as it is difficult to make lengthwise and diameter settings using the stick on scales alone
> 
> 
> Bruce
> ...



Incorporate more UHMW parts for sliding surfaces.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Joe,
Any updates on your Shopnotes CNC conversion ?
Thanks,


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Originally Posted by brucenelson 
Lignotec

Check out this website for some eye-popping developments in spiral turning and spiral fluting. It's going to take some machining ability, but I can forsee that a standard Jet mini-lathe can be outfitted to do what is done here. I have one at home that could be a candidate for such a converstion 

Has anyone done anything with this?


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Woodie,

Sorry that I haven't responded in a prompt manner, but this fall has been extremely busy for me.

I have finally gotten my CNC Shopnotes to work properly, and I have been writing g-code to create all of my Shaker table legs and center posts using standard router bits. Now, I can concentrate on more intricate lathework on my old rockwell as the CNC runs. This has basically tripled my output capability.

I'll begin posting more in the new year once things slow down.

I highly recommend CNC to anyone who is in the business of woodworking, or for anyone who wished to keep up with the latest woodworking technology. It's also a really interesting development for the serious non-business woodworker.

I would recommend that you don't build the Shopnotes if you wish to get into CNC. Trying to modify my Shopnotes to CNC has been a far greater chore that I expected. A much easier method is to buy a standard old-fashioned lathe and modify it to CNC. You simply have to build a sturdy frame and motion table for the CNC router to move along, and the electronics are very easy to install on this type of setup.

Again, I refer you to this link for what I am talking about:

Chris Glad's project notes...: Router lathe build

Joe D.


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## garylkennedy (Nov 8, 2013)

Chris,
Thanks for your detailed info. Very inspirational.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree that the ShopNotes machine should not be converted into a cnc machine. It works very well for it's intended use, which is for straight and tapered turning of wood spindles, and for straight and spiral reeding cuts on wood spindles. You should accept it for the original intention of the design, which is difficult to improve on. Please look at the completed project that has wood spindles made on the ShopNotes Spiral Router jig in brucenelson's Uploads. If I want fancy contours on my spindles, I turn them in my 16 inch South Bend equipped with a hydraulic tracer attachment.

Bruce Nelson


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## NativeAmericanVet (Mar 7, 2014)

*Anything new?*

I am new here and read all through this thread and am very interested in building one of these contraptions, but on a mini scale. 

Most of what I run on my lathe is 8 inches or shorter. Does anyone know if the spiral will translate to that small of a scale? 

Would this be possible?

I currently make spirals on my lathe with a file and hand saw the old fashion way. I learned to first make finials. But I would like to speed things up.  

Any suggestions would be appreciated. It may take me a while to build this as I am currently working on a new metal bending tool. As well as working on building my house. Many many irons in the fire. :yes4:


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Anything is possible.
You can utilize some or all of the design details on the larger versions of the machine.
You will be starting from scratch with a new design. The gearing that is within the Shop Notes version and mine would be too large. I would also suggest a smaller trim router, or even a roto-zip for the power. You might also want to consider a stand alone machine and transfer your turning to make the design (even the old Sears unit would be possible depending on your needs). Good luck -- I hope that you go on with your idea. Please advise if I can help.
Dick


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Dick: I took the time to look at all of your uploads. Really impressive and original projects. Especially the bookcase the opens up to reveal a hidden room. Like Frankenstein movies. Glad to see your return to the forum.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks for the compliments. I enjoyed making the bookcase for my daughter's safe room very much. All that they gave me to work with was a tape measure to determine the size of the opening. They wanted to be surprised on style and details.

I have been quite busy as of late and haven't taken the time to post. I did however get the "contraption" out last week and turned a spiral cane. I'll take a picture and post tomorrow if time allows. I have had more fun playing with my turning contraption than expected when I first made it.


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## jody.j (Mar 26, 2014)

*Bill Hylton's router lathe and dust*

I found Router Magic at a local used book store and purchased it (primarily) because of the router lathe. Since he used bicycle gears and chains, wouldn't dust and chips mess with the gears and chains? It seems to me that since a bicycle works best when the chain has oil and not dust, shouldn't the same principle hold true for the router lathe?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Kay:



NativeAmericanVet said:


> I am new here and read all through this thread and am very interested in building one of these contraptions, but on a mini scale.


Take a look at an ornamental lathe. Do a Google on 'ornamental lathe'. There are a variety. They can be as simple or as complex as you can imagine.



NativeAmericanVet said:


> Most of what I run on my lathe is 8 inches or shorter. Does anyone know if the spiral will translate to that small of a scale?
> 
> Would this be possible?


I would think the determining factor is going to be the physical size of your router. Here's where reading really helps. There is a machine called a Dremel that is not called a router but has bits (tiny ones) and speeds up to 30,000 rpm. This also has a series of mounting structures that you can copy. This will allow you to go down to your size.



NativeAmericanVet said:


> I currently make spirals on my lathe with a file and hand saw the old fashion way. I learned to first make finials. But I would like to speed things up.
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated. It may take me a while to build this as I am currently working on a new metal bending tool. As well as working on building my house. Many many irons in the fire. :yes4:


Ok, scale down everything in Bill Hylton's book. I would however leave the gearing full sized but leave yourself room to be able to swap out cogs and chainrings. I would also suggest that you get gear wax instead of oil. You should be able to find it at better bicycle shops. The wax won't pick up dust like oil. However, I would suggest that you cover your gears with something to reduce dust landing on them.

There is a variation on this though, it allows you to sculpt a hemisphere. I've seen it on ornamental lathes but not in router lathes. You might explore that as well.

I hope this helps and encourages you to experiment.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

jody.j said:


> I found Router Magic at a local used book store and purchased it (primarily) because of the router lathe. Since he used bicycle gears and chains, wouldn't dust and chips mess with the gears and chains? It seems to me that since a bicycle works best when the chain has oil and not dust, shouldn't the same principle hold true for the router lathe?



Hi Jody, IMO, the chain and gears are not working as fast, or for as long, as they would on a bicycle, I would not even oil them. Just me....


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

Just a reply so that this topic does not disappear.


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

Thanks for brnging it back, Bruce. It was cool reading.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Let's keep this thread alive!


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## peds5 (Oct 26, 2013)

*wooden gears*

Is anyone willing to post some templates and pictures of their gears and gears setup.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

if you page through this thread far enough you will see some of the gears and gear ratios that I used for my machine. 
Dick


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Has any one done anything with the Router Lathe?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Larry click on Dick`s uploads down below his user name. It seems to me I saw the working model among them.


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Does anyone know what happen to Joe (jdebott1). I would like to know how his CNC Router Lathe is doing.
Thanks


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

At this time I should paraphrase Mark Twain who said that----that the rumor of his demise has been greatly exaggerated. I would like all to know that I am alive and vertical. I am now in the shop and enjoying every minute of making sawdust.

I haven’t been posting on the forum for a few months because I have had some major back surgery and am now finally getting back to the point of feeling like doing something productive. As a result of being limited on the amount of weight that I could lift and too much time on my hands to think, I have improved the original design of my router lathe, even to the point of making a new set of wood gears.

Thanks again for your concern

Dick


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Glad to hear all is Good with you! (Boy they had you in the ground before your time)!
Will you seare the improvements you made?
Thanks


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

*Router lathe continued*

Hi all
Starting off, if the moderator feels that this should start a new thread, you have my permission to change or modify in any way.

I spent a little time and reviewed this thread and thought of just how far it has gone. The original thread was started in 2011 or almost 5 years ago and keeps coming back to the top of the pile.
When I started the thread, I had made a prototype that I wasn't even sure of the potential usage. Since then, I have added, modified played -- played--and played some more with my version of a router lathe.
For most of us, a picture is worth a thousand words, therefore, I have taken more pictures of my router lathe in hope that they might inspire one or more of our members to construct their own router lathe.

The pictures will show some of the pre-assembly (after adding a coat of finish for protection) through setup and ready for use. I will try and separate the pictures in sections to help clarify.

The first 7 pictures show some of the pre-assembly.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

*Router lathe continued-2*

You say that you want more pictures???


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

*Router lathe continued-3*

Just a few of the details:
The tail stock can be raised to create a taper at any angle.
Spiral flutes can be created in either direction (using the gears that I have made thus far) at 2", 3", 4", 5", 6", 8", 12", 15", and 20"spacing per revolution of the turning.
hollow spirals, flutes, conventional turning, sanding, etc.can also be done.

The best thing that I can say is that it is meant to be enjoyed and for you to have fun playing. 
If you have any questions, I will try and answer.
Dick


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

*Router lathe continued-4*

just one more picture to show what I am playing with now.
Would you believe threading??


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that's quite the contraption...


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Dick,
Did you use the same Gears and Locations as in ShopNotes?
Thanks


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## dogcatcher (Aug 25, 2012)

Just when I had about given up on any new "Contraptions" I am surprised by another great one.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Dick, the very reason I joined this forum is because I am attempting to build a router lathe.

I'm going to be studying yours intently and I'm quite sure I will have questions for you when I run into a roadblock.

Very interesting lathe indeed. Do you have any video of it in operation? Youtube maybe?

Thanks.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Keith,
As of this time, I have not made any videos which are good enough to post on youtube.
Much earlier within this thread, I have offered to provide a sketchup model of my router lathe. This offer is still valid for anyone who is serious about making a router lathe. Just send me a PM along with your email and I'll see that you get a copy.

Dick


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## jdebott1 (Nov 28, 2012)

Woodie,

Sorry I haven't been on the forum for quite a while. Working two businesses and trying to take care of my elderly parents. Plus, I try to volunteer at my church helping other seniors cope and stay living in their own homes.

My woodturning business dropped off dramatically, so I decided to covert to a full table cnc with 4th axis capability for turnings. I'm in the process of changing the conversion and making a 5-axis head plus turning capabilities for a total of 6 axis machine. I use Fusion 360 for my CAD/CAM package, and they use CNC Toolkit to modify the finished CAM G-code files allowing for the 6th axis. Hope to have more on this when I complete the CNC conversion in late March 2016.

Best to you all on the forum.

Joe DeBottis


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

dick in ia said:


> To start off, if I were to remake the gears again, I would go to Gear template generator and purchace the program.
> By looking at his setup, it appears that "Shop Notes" used the following: Angle = 20; and pitch = 23mm. For those who don't have access to the magazine, they used gears of 10 tooth, 20 tooth, 30 tooth and 40 tooth. All of the gears that I made were cut out with a band saw and filed as needed to fit.
> The pictures below will show 3 of the gearing arrangements that I used. (other ratios are also utilized)
> View attachment 49406
> ...


I just checked the referenced web site and found there is now an online free fully fuctional version that generates printable templates!


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

The templates print true 1:1 on my ink jet printer. The gears can be manipulated in many ways. There also is an animation function that shows the gears turning.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Tom,
The drawings should be in your in box by now. Let me know if you got them.

Dick


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## Wildman692 (Dec 12, 2016)

I realise this is an old thread but it takes time for things to cross the pond and I have only just found this most excellent site. The turning contraption looks amazing, you have done a wonderful job with it and I'm sure in the intervening years a large quantity have been built. Thanks for sharing. Merry Christmas everyone.


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