# Table saw dilema



## shakindog2002 (Jun 30, 2012)

hi first post in this section im after your thoughts on which is the best table saw available in the uk, for accuracy & reliability for both cross cut & ripping 
it would be used in a single garage so not too big im tired of looking at hundreds of cheap looking saws & want to narrow it down to a few makes or models i can try to pick up second hand im looking at bettween £200-£500 
thanks in advance
phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't know which is the best, but I bought a Makita MLT100 for just over £300 a while back. My requirement was partial portability (i.e. light enough to transport somewhere on my own, set-up and leave a few weeks), 110 volt supply (site use) and sufficient capacity to rip down 4 x 2s, etc edge on (it'll do 70mm with the crown guard on, 90mm with it off). It's noisy (universal motor as opposed to an induction motor, but no worse than other stuff in a site environment), a bit plasticky, but it does the job and at £300 I'm not complaining. I think it was worth the brass. I've used it's big brother, the 2704 as well as the DW744 and a Metabo portable - all about £550 to £650) - and there really isn't £300 difference in them. The MLT is therefore a bargaiin to my mind. One thing I would recommend is looking for a deal with the MLT100 and a folding (height adjustable) mobile base. They are worth their weight

Regards

Phil


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

shakindog2002 said:


> hi first post in this section im after your thoughts on which is the best table saw available in the uk, for accuracy & reliability for both cross cut & ripping
> it would be used in a single garage so not too big im tired of looking at hundreds of cheap looking saws & want to narrow it down to a few makes or models i can try to pick up second hand im looking at bettween £200-£500
> thanks in advance
> phil


 I live in the United States, so I know that the current is a factor already! I own a Ryobi 10 in. saw and I love it! It is small footprint when finding out all that the saw can do. The first thing is that The slideing mitre table is installed by the factory! and I find it very accurate and repeatable. Both sides of the table can slide out for wide cuts.As for long cuts, the best I believe is an extension table The saw is very much able to repeat cuts day after day and hold the measurements . It is not built to be used as a carry along saw for consrtucion, but is meant to be used for finish work, and furniture. Mine is 12 years old, and still uses the same belts. They can be bought used only, and in Mr opinion is built better that it's replacement! 

The saw number is: the Ryobi BT3000 10 inch table saw. Router wing is also available !


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## shakindog2002 (Jun 30, 2012)

cheers guys ill check these two makes out just the sort of feedback im after good pionts & bad all help i lke makita quality as ive used thier drills ill look into ryobi & check out thier range im also considering an old cast iron 3 phase option but re-motor it for 240v anyone got any thoughts on this approach
cheers so far
phil


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

I don't know if General is available in the UK or not. Canadian company though General International is made in Taiwan. I love my 50-185.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

shakindog2002 said:


> cheers guys ill check these two makes out just the sort of feedback im after good pionts & bad all help i lke makita quality as ive used thier drills ill look into ryobi & check out thier range im also considering an old cast iron 3 phase option but re-motor it for 240v anyone got any thoughts on this approach
> cheers so far
> phil


Changing motors depends on the mount the old one uses. I've heard that some saws use odd sized motors with odd mounting pattern. You may also need to change the switch. The 3 phase one might not be compatible. Another option is to get a 3 phase converter to change the 240 to the right voltage for the saw as is. I'm not sure how the economics works out. Phil P might know. I personally prefer the old cast saws. I think many of them are capable of outliving the person using them.


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## robert edwards (May 4, 2012)

you need a "dewalt dw744xp" just over £500 if you shop around 
fantastic straight out of the box
i bought a jet ts for £180 it lasted 1 year and a day i then spent 2weeks internet seaching for a ts and found dw744 to be the best 4 years later its still fantasic!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

You should look at Axminster saws. I recently spent some time comparing one of their models to our American made Delta Unisaws and it appeared to be very close in capability, power, and accuracy. Of course, I'm a bit too far away to do any kind of side by side hands-on type of comparison. 

Charley


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

dutchman 46 said:


> I live in the United States, so I know that the current is a factor already! I own a Ryobi 10 in. saw and I love it!


Hi Howard

Unfortunately the BT3000 is not available in the UK. What we get instead is a really flimsy low cost piece of tat and a slightly better version of same. I've used the former and I wouldn't have it as a doorstop!



shakindog2002 said:


> im also considering an old cast iron 3 phase option but re-motor it for 240v anyone got any thoughts on this approach
> cheers so far
> phil


Hi Phil

Yes, it's one way to go, but remember that an old saw will need not only a motor, but also a DoL starter (or contactor set). You'll need to budget £100 to £150 for that before you start. And are you able to transport your saw? These cast iron saws generally won't even fit in a small van - OK if you have a Transot, some ramps and a pallet truck, though. If not it's a half a day off work and Palletline to ship for you at £60 or so because they only deliver Monday to Friday. So that's £150 to £200 into your budget before you buy the saw. 

Try not to get carried away, though. I well recall visiting someone a few years back who'd bought a cast-iron 24 x 9in planer/thicknesser and wanted advice on how to convert it. He hadn't taken into account that this thing weighed 1.5 tonnes, required two motors (7.5HP and 1HP) and he'd need to hire a crane to got it down his (sloping) drive way and into his 1-car garage - which it would have completely filled, this machine being 5-1/2 feet wide.......... Conversion really only works with machines which were 2HP or less to start with (a 5.5HP panel saw fitted with a 2HP 1-phase motor would be woefully underpowered), and ideally the machine must have a foot-mounted motor with a standard motor frame (pre-1950s machines often don't have this and many have motors which are peculiar to the machine - typical rewiring cost £100 to £200, depending on the size of the motor). It's not impossible - just be aware of the potential costs and pitfalls



Big Steve said:


> I don't know if General is available in the UK or not. Canadian company though General International is made in Taiwan. I love my 50-185.


Hi Steve

General is not available in the USA. Taiwanese-made table saws are available, like the Xalibur, but a "proper" cabinet saw tends to come in at £700 and up over here

Regards

Phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Changing motors depends on the mount the old one uses. I've heard that some saws use odd sized motors with odd mounting pattern. You may also need to change the switch. The 3 phase one might not be compatible. Another option is to get a 3 phase converter to change the 240 to the right voltage for the saw as is. I'm not sure how the economics works out. Phil P might know.


Hi Charles

I posted on the switch issue - 3-phase to single phase requires a new DoL (Direct on Line) starter in an enclosure. As to the motors, yes, some machines have flange-mount or even integral L-mount brackets and are therefore horrendously expensive to convert because for them you need to go to an industrial motor supplier who won't be selling cheap far east induction motors. For a flange mount 3HP industrial induction motor, such as a European-built ABB, I don't think I'd see any change out of £250 (including VAT)

Phase converters are pretty straightforward - I ran one workshop in the past on a Transwave converter quite well. Easy enough when you only have one or two machines (think saw PLUS dust extractor) in operation at a time, but you do need to match the converter to the motor sizes quite closely. Having a 10HP converter for a 2HP saw + 1HP extractor is wasteful in cost and running costs (and the unit may overheat), having a 2HP converter in that situation will mean it trips every 5 minutes.

The one thing nobody seems to consider with older industrial stuff is that a 50 or 60 year old saw will be cheap for a reason. Many times they are incomplete - mainly it's the fence and/or riving knife which have gone missing. It's very frustrating trying to tell people who've bought these clunkers that parts aren't available any more - not new, not secondhand. That £300 3-phase "bargain" without a fence, riving knife or crown guard will probably cost them at least £850 to get working (£60 shipping, £120 motor, £60 DoL, £20 riving knife, £60 crown guard, £200 fence, £30 sundry wiring, etc) - plus a lot of hours graft - and whilst it's apart it would be a good idea to replace the spindle bearings and the drive belts and maybe give it a coat of paint, etc. These "oldies" are a lot like old cars - you need to be an enthusiast to tackle them. 

In any case to my mind an Incra fence on a Wadkin saw is a very, very poor substitute for the original (always assuming that you know which models are worth buying and which to avoid - some of them are absolute lemons). The other issues are bearings and trunnions. Bearings and belts can be replaced, but if the trunnions or gears are worn it can become a very costly exercise to put things right. So if you are buying one of these saws it pays to have it looked over by someone "in the know" - just like old cars, really

Regards

Phil


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree with your sentiments on this one, Phil.

Unless the saw is second hand, but not too many years old, then much better to spend the extra dollars on a new saw.

It is hard for members outside the UK to make a recommendation, as we do not know what make/models have been sold in the UK over the past 4/5 years.

I like you analogy of restoring an old car.

Some members take great delight in restoring old machinery and that almost becomes a second hobby to wood working.


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## shakindog2002 (Jun 30, 2012)

cheers for all the advice im only just starting out so dont need possible headache of changing from 3 to single phase thankyou for pionting out the pitfalls i hadnt forseen with my how hard can it be thinking. ill do more reading & take the plunge with a newer model get a bit more experience before i start to get to choosy about the machinery ill keep checking out your suggestions until i find one that fits my current restriants of space/cost verses quality thank you for all your advice its been invaluable & has taken the worry out of choosing ill keep you posted as to what im looking at so you can yay or nay my choices
again thanks
phil


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Phil,
I knew you would have valuable insight into the specifics involved. You hit on another issue I hadn't thought of. If this machine is 3 phase then it came out of a professional shop which means it got used a lot. You could be quite right about much of it being worn out unlike a cast iron saw built for the DIY market. The critical parts in a well built DIY saw would probably still be in good shape as long as it wasn't in a production shop.


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## shakindog2002 (Jun 30, 2012)

I got one yay! i picked up a sip 01332 10" cabinet saw it has a cast iron bed & it looks like its had very little use good condition overall .the cast iron bed needs some attention any advice on cleaning it up as its got minor surface rust in places on the outer beds & also how to protect it from future damage would be great, also any tips on servicing before i start cutting up stuff to get the best results would be greatly appreciated.
i paid £355 for this & a record power cx2600 chip & dust extractor so im pretty satisfied 
cheers
phil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Congrats Phil, that's a good price (circa £900 new).

Theres's plenty of advice on here about dealing with rust, but if it's only surface rust it will often clean off with steel wool, or failing that a bit of P120 grit alox paper (it's harder than rust, softer than cast iron) used with some 3-in-1. To keep it rust free after that get yourself some Liberon Lubo wax (Axminster sell it)

Regards

Phil


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Sounds like you got a good deal,Phil.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

shakindog2002 said:


> I got one yay! i picked up a sip 01332 10" cabinet saw it has a cast iron bed & it looks like its had very little use good condition overall .the cast iron bed needs some attention any advice on cleaning it up as its got minor surface rust in places on the outer beds & also how to protect it from future damage would be great, also any tips on servicing before i start cutting up stuff to get the best results would be greatly appreciated.
> i paid £355 for this & a record power cx2600 chip & dust extractor so im pretty satisfied
> cheers
> phil


Other Phil touched on it. When I got my cast iron saw, was same surface problems. I used Aero Kroil (like WD-40), a stainless scouring pad and a scraper. Cleaned, wiped. Went over with caruba paste wax. Have never had an inkling of rust since.








Phil, that looks like a really nice saw. Was looking at the exploded parts view to give instructions on square/tune... But I didn't see the tilt mechanism nor trunions. I know it has both as that saw was pulled then brought back for sale and it's pictures show it. I'm a little wary giving instructions for adjustment until I saw what "type" of trunions (or trunion mounting) it had.

Basically, put something in the left miter slot (3/4" stock). Slide it the the toe of the blade. Measure and set a combo square with 90 degrees to the blade, that it just touches the blade. Slide it back to the heel of the blade. It should be even <> not to close or too far = same measurement.

If not, loosen any trunions back to the rear trunion, but leaving the rear trunion tight. Move the shaft going through the front trunion in the direction to make the correction. Recheck, tighten, recheck. Loosen rear trunion and move it just enough to remove any binding. Retighten an check.

Check tilt at 0 degress... Checking with combo square, 90 degrees from table. If not, adjust the tilt stop for that direction. Tilt to 45 degrees, check with combo square. Adjust if needed. Tilt back to 90 degress- If adjusted, reset tilt indicator to 0.








Slide fence to right side of blade, look to see if fence is parallel with the blade. If it isn't... occuring to the exploded view above, loosen the t-bolts holding parts 10 and 18 together. (Leave snug). Adjust. Check. Tighten. Recheck.

That would do it. You could final check it by taking a piece of scrap. Set the fence. Mark the leading corner that would touch the blade as 1. Cut. Turn clockwise. Cut. Mark as 2. Turn. cut. mark as 3. turn. cut mark as 4. Measure corners 1 and 4 by putting that corner in the inside corner of a framing square, lining it up with one side and measuring the other. #1 is most off. #2 is the first corner made. Adjustment is made in the fence*. Sometimes with everything adjusted statically, there might be flex or play in the fence. Adjusting this way will allow for that. After the fence is adjusted, slide the fence to the right side of the blade and reset the 0 indicator. Make sure your micro-adjuster is zero'ed before you reset it.

* - This is the same method, but opposite turn direction that you use for checking a TS crosscut sled's fence.

Next step, rip a piece of scrap and noted the sound and the saw marks. That should be a reference for later. If that sound changes or the saw marks are different (get worse), recheck.

Does that help at all? It's really not hard or too technical. All TS'es are basically the same on how they are tuned, barring how they're put together, some just have some quarks on how it's done.


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## shakindog2002 (Jun 30, 2012)

cheers guys ill get cleaning cant wait to use it in anger those exploded views are priceless i think ill strip it down get a new belt lube where needed make a wheel bed for it so i dont need three people every time i move it ! i love that its heavy it just screams quality & realiability in my eyes. im now ready to start making stuff i will sleep well tonight
cheers phil


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