# Selecting woods and correct sizing



## serpentine5 (Apr 13, 2012)

I am planning to build a 6 foot bathroom vanity, and I modeled it in sketchup so I could part it out to see exactly what woods and lengths and all I would need. 
After I put together a list and compared to the selection off of Lowes site... I am looking at over $450 just for materials. This does not include hardware such as slides and hinges or pulls. I was looking at building the carcass out of 3/4 birch ply and the faceframe, raised panel doors, and drawer fronts out of poplar. Also using a 1/4 inch birch or oak for the back of the cabinet. 
After seeing the cost I was very much put off especially since I can buy a cherry cabinet at my local salvage store for $160. But I decided to find a forum and discuss it and see if I went wrong somewhere. 
This is going to be painted, but I do not want to make the doors, face and drawer fronts out of plywood or something else that looks like an amature made it. yes, I am an amature, have never built a piece of furniture before but I believe in doing things right the first time. I have been reading and watching videos and have experience building lots of things, just no furniture. 
I intend to pocket hole the face frames, tongue and groove the rest of the carcass together using the sommerfeld cabinet building router bit set. I want the doors to be raised face frames. 
From left to right, 30 inch sink base with fake drawer front above two doors, then 12 inch with 4 drawers (top to bottom will be 5 in 5 in 5.5 in and 5.5in) then another 30 inch sink base like the one on the left. All in one six foot carcass. 
Floor to top of carcass is 34.5 in, depth is 24in, toe kick is 3.5x3.5in.
faceframes are constructed out of 3/4 x 2in poplar, doors and drawer faces are constructed out of 1inch poplar. 

If this is totally wrong or even one part please pop in and tell me. also, if there is a less expensive wood/woods i can use to bring down the cost....the hinges and slides are going to cost right at 100 then the pulls, not to mention the bit set at 250 and any other tools I will need. 

Thanks for any and all help, Mike


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

My local blue box (Lowe's) doesn't impress me with their prices for hardwoods, yet they are very competitive on soft woods, especially those milled locally.

One of the great things about woodworking for fun is the opportunity it gives the craft-person to make the design decisions. 

That being said, I think full on 4/4 thick is over kill for drawer faces and doors. 3/4" would be my choice there, especially with poplar, or any other hardwood.

Sure you can do it in 4/4, but it will sure as heck impact the bottom line costs a lot.

Just my thoughts. Good luck with your project.


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## serpentine5 (Apr 13, 2012)

ok, so 3/4 faceframes, doors, and drawer fronts? ok. anything else?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, I explain the reasons for filling out your profile in my welcome message. Not knowing where you are located makes it tough to suggest alternate materials since prices vary widely across the country. In general you can buy your lumber from a local sawmill for a lot less money than from a big box store. Most vanity doors are 1/2" to 3/4" thick which is a savings right off. Odds are you can build the base from 1/2" stock as long as it is properly braced, more cost savings. In your situation I would go with the used cherry vanity for the best value, perhaps upgrading the hardware on it? Not meaning to sound indelicate but people visit the bathroom to wash or take a dump. I suggest you consider building a piece of furniture for a different room in the house.


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

serpentine5 said:


> ok, so 3/4 faceframes, doors, and drawer fronts? ok. anything else?


Designing panels constructed from solid woods, that can be used (instead of plywood) is something I have been getting into more and more. Some of the the design decisions on how the panel is put together affect price a lot. In general, I try to use pieces that cost less per cubic inch and avoid those that cost more.

Not knowing the full details of how you intend to build up the doors and drawers kind of limits detailed suggestions on ways to save cash without sacrificing quality in the form of appearance or sturdiness.

I do as much 'practice construction' using cheap wood (fir or cedar) during the design process as I need to, in order to avoid mess ups with the expensive stuff. You might also have lumber yards in your area that specialize in hardwoods for furniture makers. Most of them would love a chance to compete with the big box stores, especially on a project this large. The yellow pages is as good a place as any to find a lumber yard that handles a good selection of hardwoods.

Have you considered reusing wood salvaged from damaged cabinets that the salvage yard you mentioned might have pass through? I'm the kind of nut that would talk a place like that into having me make two or three good cabinets out of four five or six damaged ones and let me have the left overs for my efforts..


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## wbh1963 (Oct 11, 2011)

Mike said:


> Not meaning to sound indelicate but people visit the bathroom to wash or take a dump. I suggest you consider building a piece of furniture for a different room in the house.


This old sailor doesn't use em for much more than that either Mike.

The other half of the species seems to spend a lot of time in that room doing the hair and make up, or at least my teenage niece does..... I think every room in the house rates at least one 'custom furniture' creation.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Starting off with the bits go to MLCSWOODWORKING.COM you cna get a decent rail an style bit set anywhere from $40 to $70 dollars. If the hardware you are using includes European type hinges then a regular bit won't work for the door edges because they cut too deep. You will need a special bit for that MLCS has them for $20 bucks (everything has free shipping). As far as the cabinet goes I would use MDF for the sides. It is used all the time and gives a beautiful painted finish. Poplar is a decent choice for the front parts however pine would do as well. You can get clear pine out of #2 grade by carefully selecting it. Just cut out the bad parts. As far a the back goes any type of plywood wood work , you really don't even need a full back. No matter what type of wood you use it won't look good with a cheap finish. What you need is a good paint. Something like Sherwin Williams acrylic enamel will work. There are some better ones but I would have to search around for an empty can. What you want is a paint that will give you a nice hard finish. Lastly the finish should be sprayed not brushed.


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## Bradleytavares (Feb 25, 2012)

History proves that a custom, hand built product will never compete with factory built. Many potental customers contact me hoping to get a better pricing than in a store. As you may guess, especally a big box store can sell for so much less than any cabinet shop that offers premade cabinets. Remember, woodworkers do these things for love not money. You may want to consider precut, predrilled parts cab parts from a company such as Cabparts in Colorado for your box, build your faceframe or go with European style, cover the ends with panels from a door manfacturer as well as order your doors from the same manfgr and put all the parts together. This way you are able to have the piece built to your specifications. Most custom shops usr this process to offer a custom cab at a competitive price. Take advantage of the manufacturing process offered by large CNC cut out machines to lower the materials cost. The materials offered by big box stores often are not a cabnet grade lumber and it will show in the finished piece after time with twist, check, curve and finish even if you purchase select. Go to a lumber yard such as Paxtons for good quality lumber. Most serious woodworkers, including myself, have learned this the hard way. PM me if you'd like more info. Thanks for the good question.


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## RingNeckBlues (Apr 30, 2012)

Bradleytavares said:


> History proves that a custom, hand built product will never compete with factory built. Many potental customers contact me hoping to get a better pricing than in a store. As you may guess, especally a big box store can sell for so much less than any cabinet shop that offers premade cabinets. Remember, woodworkers do these things for love not money. You may want to consider precut, predrilled parts cab parts from a company such as Cabparts in Colorado for your box, build your faceframe or go with European style, cover the ends with panels from a door manfacturer as well as order your doors from the same manfgr and put all the parts together. This way you are able to have the piece built to your specifications. Most custom shops usr this process to offer a custom cab at a competitive price. Take advantage of the manufacturing process offered by large CNC cut out machines to lower the materials cost. The materials offered by big box stores often are not a cabnet grade lumber and it will show in the finished piece after time with twist, check, curve and finish even if you purchase select. Go to a lumber yard such as Paxtons for good quality lumber. Most serious woodworkers, including myself, have learned this the hard way. PM me if you'd like more info. Thanks for the good question.


Brad,

Great advice sir!!

Cool post #10.. Brad is the buddy that got me here!!


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## serpentine5 (Apr 13, 2012)

Mike said:


> Mike, I explain the reasons for filling out your profile in my welcome message. Not knowing where you are located makes it tough to suggest alternate materials since prices vary widely across the country. In general you can buy your lumber from a local sawmill for a lot less money than from a big box store. Most vanity doors are 1/2" to 3/4" thick which is a savings right off. Odds are you can build the base from 1/2" stock as long as it is properly braced, more cost savings. In your situation I would go with the used cherry vanity for the best value, perhaps upgrading the hardware on it? Not meaning to sound indelicate but people visit the bathroom to wash or take a dump. I suggest you consider building a piece of furniture for a different room in the house.


I am in Chattanooga Tn. 
As for the Cherry vanity from the salvage place, it would be new. this salvage place sells all new stuff they buy from places going out of business or stuff that is "scratch and dent". All new hardware and such. 
1/2 inch thick panel, rails and stiles for the doors would be fine?
As for the piece going into the bathroom.... it is what the wife wants... happy wife happy life. 



wbh1963 said:


> Not knowing the full details of how you intend to build up the doors and drawers kind of limits detailed suggestions on ways to save cash without sacrificing quality in the form of appearance or sturdiness.


I intend to build the doors and drawers the conventional way. rails and stiles with raised panels in the middle. the drawers will have four sides and a bottom and then a raised face on the front that overlaps the rails and stiles by half and inch all around. 



mgmine said:


> Starting off with the bits go to MLCSWOODWORKING.COM you cna get a decent rail an style bit set anywhere from $40 to $70 dollars. If the hardware you are using includes European type hinges then a regular bit won't work for the door edges because they cut too deep. You will need a special bit for that MLCS has them for $20 bucks (everything has free shipping). As far as the cabinet goes I would use MDF for the sides. It is used all the time and gives a beautiful painted finish. Poplar is a decent choice for the front parts however pine would do as well.


Thanks for the site. I have researched some and come up with a site called sommerfeldtools.com and they custom make their own bits. they have a system to where you never need to re-adjust the height of your router once it is set up when using a matching set. You start with the coping bit, then just pull the bit out and put in the sticking bit and it will be the exact height you need. The way I understand it, the owner of the company used to design bits for a much larger company and went off to start his own. Sommerfeldtools is what he started and from what I have seen, he makes some nice tools. I hate to pay 250 for a 6 piece cabinet building set, but it does seem on par with alot of the other major brand bit makers and they are precision built. I havent seen any others that are made to match in height in a set either.


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