# any basic plans?



## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I'm a complete novice with minimal power tools and even less hand tools :surprise:
any one have some simple plans I can practice my woodwork on?

I did say "simple" didnt I? 0


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sunnybob said:


> I'm a complete novice with minimal power tools and even less hand tools :surprise:
> any one have some simple plans I can practice my woodwork on?
> 
> I did say "simple" didn't I? 0


one of my favorites....

Gatto Plan Supply - The finest in wooden model plans!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

in all seriousness...
any fi8nished products in mind???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodworking Projects - Easy & DIY Wood Project Plans | Minwax
Woodworking Projects for Beginners
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/icandothat
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/free-woodworking-downloads


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> one of my favorites....
> 
> Gatto Plan Supply - The finest in wooden model plans!


what part of simple did I mispell? send me that link again in about a 100 years :smile:


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> Woodworking Projects - Easy & DIY Wood Project Plans | Minwax
> Woodworking Projects for Beginners
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/icandothat
> http://www.popularwoodworking.com/free-woodworking-downloads


now these are closer to my skill level (at least the simpler ones are)

I'm making things with straight edges mostly, trinket boxes, tissue box covers, trying to improve my jointing, which is proving to be more difficult than I thought. Do you use a planer /jointer? I'm thinking I need one to get straight edges, but have to justify the cost.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sunnybob said:


> now these are closer to my skill level (at least the simpler ones are)
> 
> I'm making things with straight edges mostly, trinket boxes, tissue box covers, trying to improve my jointing, which is proving to be more difficult than I thought. Do you use a planer /jointer? I'm thinking I need one to get straight edges, but have to justify the cost.


I trust you have a router, clamp on straight guides and a table saw....

PRO-Grip Straight Edge Clamps

If you like we can address any issues you have one at a time...
either by fixing or working around them...
so pick your 1st project to start on....

what table saw do you have and is it tuned up???
what accessories do you have for it???

are all your tools tuned up???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

the realm of issues can be so huge it's difficult to know where to start w/o detailed input or a start point from you...
not to mention many issues are interlinked....


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a few projects posted. If you find something you like, I might be able to help with some basic dimensions.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

its difficult to describe just how basic my skills and tools are. this is a new to me hobby, after retirement last may. i can build large structures, verandas, pergolas, stuff like that where a quarter inch either way is industry standard. but small delicate stuff is beyond me at the moment.

trinket boxes, tissue box covers, i'm just about making ok. but the glued edges are never good enough.
i dont have a table saw as such, just a table / mitre combi saw like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ryobi-ETMS1825-1800W-Table-Mitre/dp/B003KJ0CME.

i have to watch my pennies on large purchases, so cant buy any major items till i can absolutely justify them. thats why i asked about a jointer /planer/ thicknesser. will it make my glueing edges a lot better? i also have trouble getting suitable wood as i live in Cyprus, which is in the european union politically, but geographically its the middle east. hobby stuff is very hard to come by out here, everything has to wait till i get a visitor from the uk.

the wood yards have hard and exotic wood, but only sell it in 15 foot planks by 3" thick, so i have to try to resaw large planks into useable thicknesses, again i think the jointer would help here.

life is hard ( lol)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@sunnybob...

its difficult to describe just how basic my skills and tools are.
*so we work w/ what you have.... *

this is a new to me hobby, after retirement last may. i can build large structures, verandas, pergolas, stuff like that where a quarter inch either way is industry standard.
*this is good...*

but small delicate stuff is beyond me at the moment.
*tell us more...*

trinket boxes, tissue box covers, I'm just about making OK. but the glued edges are never good enough.
*how so???*

I don't have a table saw as such, just a table / mitre combo saw like this Ryobi ETMS1825 1800W 10 inch Table Mitre Saw: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools.
*that's an interesting piece of equipment...
what are it's size limits as a table saw???
is it not cutting the ends of your material square???*

I have to watch my pennies on large purchases, so can't buy any major items till I can absolutely justify them. thats why i asked about a jointer /planer/ thicknesser. 
*Do you plan on re-sawing those 3" thick boards to thinner pieces???
can you rip the 3" thick lumber to desired thicknesses and glue them up as wider panels??? *

will it make my gluing edges a lot better? 
*are you talking corners or gluing up pieces to make them wider??? Both???*
*what exactly is it that you are unhappy with???*

I also have trouble getting suitable wood as i live in Cyprus, which is in the European union politically, but geographically its the middle east. hobby stuff is very hard to come by out here, everything has to wait till i get a visitor from the UK.

the wood yards have hard and exotic wood, but only sell it in 15 foot planks by 3" thick, so i have to try to resaw large planks into useable thicknesses, again i think the jointer would help here.

life is hard ( lol)


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> @sunnybob...
> 
> its difficult to describe just how basic my skills and tools are.
> *so we work w/ what you have.... *
> ...


The ryobi will cut up to 70mm x 130mm on the mitre saw, 60mm on the table saw. This is actually not a bad machine to use, but i am limited by the 60mm cut.
i tried to cut a bigger board last week by using the suggestion here of running it through both edges and sawing down the middle, but i couldnt because the blade riving knife is too firmly fixed into the machine body for me to remove without dismantling.

my bandsaw is useless for resawing planks. i have had major problems with this item, it was an expensive mistake buying it. i have since found out that this particular machine is reviled around europe, but i'm stuck with it, i cant afford to replace it for some time. its ok as a scroll saw,or cutting excess wood away for the router table but useless on any thing thicker than half inch. it just wanders around, and then jams regardless of which blade i use.

so the jointer (i hope) could be the answer to two problems, getting square edges to a good enough standard to have seam free glued , and also to reduce the thicker timber to useable thicknesses. yes, i want to glue butt joints, as well as corners. i am waiting on a comb cutter router bit set

Trend 876X1/2TC Comb Jointer Set Cutter | eBay
to give me more decorative 90 degree joints, that should arrive next week i hope

i'm learning the router table, and enjoying that more than most other things at the moment.

this is why i am looking for simple things to make, just to give me experience at cutting and measuring to a much finer tolerance than i am used to.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have never seen a saw combination like that. The table saw configuration doesn't look like it would be of much help for ripping anything over about 24 inches in length. That is unless you can cobble up some sort of outfeed table and possibly some infeed support.

Your router can be real handy. An exact width dado jig would help make good accurate dadoes. See my jig here.
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/49738-exact-width-dado-jig.html

You can also set up your router table as a joiner. That would help get straight edges on boards.
There are a lot of threads about using a router as a jointer.
Router Forums - Search Results

A jointer and a thickness planer work together to help produce material that is flat with a 90 deg edge. The basics are as follows...

Run one side (wide side) of the workpiece across the jointer until it is flat.
Place the flat side against the fence and run one edge over the cutter head until it is flat.

Using the planer, run the board(s) through the planer with the flat side face down. Make small cuts until you reach the desired thickness.

Rip your material to the final width on the table saw. Make sure to run the flat edge against the fence.

Your material should now be ready to assemble or glue up into wider panels. Note: When I am planning to glue up a panel, such as for a deep drawer or drawer front, I flatten the board, make one edge 90 deg, rip the other side straight on the table saw, then glue up the pieces. Keep in mind the planer can only take up to 12 inches...some go to 13 inches wide. With the glue dry, I can then plane the panel to the desired thickness. If needed, I rip the panel to it's final width.

From reading this write up, you can probably see where the jointer, planer and table saw all play a role in creating good material for the project you are building.

I hope you find this info helpful.
Mike


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@sunnybob...

The Ryobi will cut up to 70mm x 130mm on the mitre saw, 60mm on the table saw. This is actually not a bad machine to use, but i am limited by the 60mm cut.
*the riving knife shouldn't extend above the blade...
will the yellow plastic guard easily remove from the riving knife leaving the knife in place???
if so, you should be able to double cut thicker material by cutting one side and then flipping the board end for end and cutting it again...
w/ the riving knife in place you can cut 55% of the board's thickness on the 1st pass...
flip the board end for end and make the second cut...
smooth out any blade marks w/ sanding or a hand plane...*

so the jointer (i hope) could be the answer to two problems, getting square edges to a good enough standard to have seam free glued ,
*you can do this with your router...*
and also to reduce the thicker timber to usable thicknesses. 
*from what thickness to what thinness??*
yes, i want to glue butt joints, as well as corners.
*please be specific as to what joinery...*
i am waiting on a comb cutter router bit set 

Trend 876X1/2TC Comb Jointer Set Cutter | eBay

to give me more decorative 90 degree joints, that should arrive next week i hope

i'm learning the router table, and enjoying that more than most other things at the moment.

this is why i am looking for simple things to make, just to give me experience at cutting and measuring to a much finer tolerance than i am used to.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

the plastic guard over the top of the saw comes off with just one screw, but the riving knife is a good half inch higher than the blade. its bolted to the chassis with lots of plastic covers and screws over the top of it. far to difficult to take on and off with any regularity.
I'm still learning what the router can do, I've only just realised i can put the fence in front and use the router "backwards" to cut a straight edge.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

sunnybob said:


> so the jointer (i hope) could be the answer to two problems, getting square edges to a good enough standard to have seam free glued ,


When edge gluing two pieces, it's not critical to have a 90* edge to the face. However, the complimentary angles of the two mating pieces should equal 90. It's hard to explain without a diagram but I'll try.

If board "A" has an angle of 91*, then board "B" should have an angle of 89*. When I joint (is that a word?), I use the up and down method (I'm sure there's a technical term but I don't know what it is). That is to say I will place the up face on board A against the jointer fence, then I will put the "down" face of board "B" against the fence. If my fence isn't exactly at 90*, this method will cancel out the offset and the complimentary angles will match.

So, when I lay out my boards for a wide panel glue up, I label the opposing faces accordingly, then joint the edges.

If I use a hand plane, I will place two opposing faces in the vice together. So, if my plane is tilted slightly, the two edges will still match.

If anyone understands this, and would like to add a diagram please feel free.

To joint an edge on the router table, you outfeed fence should have a shim so that the edge of the workpiece rides along the outfeed fence after it has passed the bit. I shim out my outfeed fence with a piece of formica - I find this to be a suitable amount to shim.

Vince


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## Jack Wilson (Mar 14, 2010)

Regarding your bandsaw, which I have no knowledge of your model, the right blade MAY make all the difference. For resawing use the widest blade your saw will take, with the FEWEST teeth. 

I reserve the right to edit this post, depending on how dumb it makes me look after I view your profile!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob; my suggestion is to check out local boatyards. If they're not super busy you should be able to get material resawn and planed to thickness. You'll also meet a bunch of truly skilled woodworkers.
Offcuts of boat-building woods like Mahogany, Teak, and Oak should be easy to source from there as well.
Give it a shot...how's your Greek (Turkish)?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I loves the internets...
Cyprus Yacht & Boat Bulding & Repairs - Find Yacht & Boat Bulding & Repairs in Cyprus - Cyprus.com


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Vince, good advice I hadnt thought of, thanks.

Jack, no, the bandsaw is crap, I've tried many blades, and now been told that it has been withdrawn from sale due to the number of complaints. Its the worst example of chinese outsourcing I have come across. Cant even sell it on 'cos I'm too honest to lie to the next owner.

Dan, there arent too many wooden boats around here, even the old fishing boats are 90% fibreglass. I've looked whenever we go to the seaside, which is often on an island only 30 miles across (lol) Those shops are ships chandlers, and funnily enough, only 2 of them are on the coast. but I havent given up completely.

I've found one furniture maker who is obliging with off cuts, but thats only in the summer. in the winter, he has a queue outside asking for firewood, and heating comes before hobbies.

'er indoors has just found me a project. she's actually quite pleased with the tissue box holder I finished yesterday. and has commissioned a matching tv remote holder box.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

sunnybob said:


> I've found one furniture maker who is obliging with off cuts, but thats only in the summer. in the winter, he has a queue outside asking for firewood, and heating comes before hobbies.


That's a shame... if I were him, I'd give the wood to someone who wants to make something from it before someone who's going to burn it.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

AndyL said:


> That's a shame... if I were him, I'd give the wood to someone who wants to make something from it before someone who's going to burn it.


Andy, as an ex-pat from somerset, once upon a time I would have thought the same as you.
But here, believe it or not, the winters ARE cold, none of the houses have insulation (single clay block infilling reiniforced concrete frames, and almost no central heating. We freeze in jan and feb.
the vast majority of cypriots still have wood fires, and trees for firewood are so scarce you have to go the village mucktar (kind of a town clerk) and get written permission, AND PAY, before you can chop a tree for the fire.
So I cant blame them burning whatever they can cadge for free, even if it is mahogany or beech.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Bob, I suggest you google Paul Sellers. You would be surprised to see what you can do with hand tools. What you can learn from his videos is incredible!


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Bob, I suggest you google Paul Sellers. You would be surprised to see what you can do with hand tools. What you can learn from his videos is incredible!


Gary, yes, I have watched several of his videos, what I am lacking in is ALL tools, hand and power :surprise:0 and have to proceed very carefully so as not to annoy the keeper of the wallet.>


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

is there anything you can find to rexcyle???


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> is there anything you can find to rexcyle???


The furniture maker gave me a piece of oak 3ft x 8" x 1", that I havent yet had the nerve to saw up, and a beech door frame set that was damaged, which I have used to make some basic toy shapes. But the whole island scavenges wood all through the year ready for the winter. Theres nothing wooden ever left laying around. to the point if you have some, it has to be hidden or chained down.

I have found a couple of exotic woods (as far as I am concerned, being English) one is called mansonia, another is meranti. The mansonia is a very pleasing golden hue once coated with danish oil, the meranti looks good at first as it is gold and black flecks, but once oiled, the gold diminishes so much the wood looks a mucky grey.

I have half planks of sapele and mahogany, but all of them are rough sawn, hence my problems with getting smooth sides.

I've just been out to the table saw, the riving knife can be removed easier than I thought. But I have no depth adjustment because of the mutitude of safety interlinks on the saw. So I have a small plank of wood 90mm x 25mm that i want to rip into 3 off 90 x 6 , but the blade cuts 60mm. I understand it is too dangerous to saw all the way through?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

The furniture maker gave me a piece of oak 3ft x 8" x 1", that I haven't yet had the nerve to saw up, and a beech door frame set that was damaged, which I have used to make some basic toy shapes. But the whole island scavenges wood all through the year ready for the winter. Theres nothing wooden ever left laying around. to the point if you have some, it has to be hidden or chained down.
*That sucks...*

I have found a couple of exotic woods (as far as I am concerned, being English) one is called mansonia, another is meranti. The mansonia is a very pleasing golden hue once coated with danish oil, the meranti looks good at first as it is gold and black flecks, but once oiled, the gold diminishes so much the wood looks a mucky gray.

*Mansonia is seldom seen here but then only primarily as veneer when we do see it and not lumber...
it also used often as an alternate to Walnut... The stuff is very easy to work/tool and long term durable (rot resistant)...

BE ADVISED THAT IT DOES COME WITH HEALTH WARNINGS!!!...

Allergies/Toxicity:* Mansonia is on the short list as one of the worst wood species in terms of toxicity and commonness of allergic reactions. Mansonia has been reported as a sensitizers, and though the most usual reactions simply include eye and skin irritation, the wood dust can also produce a wide range of other effects, including nausea, giddiness, sneezing, headaches, nosebleeds, infected splinters, and asthma-like symptoms. Additionally, both the bark and heartwood have been found to contain cardiac poisons, which can cause heart disorders....

*(Red) Meranti is thought of as Asian Mahogany even though it isn't mahogany or any relation there of... since you said golden it may be white or yellow Meranti or even Balau - lending more to a Philippine Mahogany...
It's easy to work... those gold flecks you mentioned is actually silica (high content too) so plan on dulled cutters... 
the interlocked grain can present problems during planing, and sawn/planed surfaces can be left fuzzy or ragged.. Sanding to finer grits will help smooth out the fuzzies.... Glues well.*

I have half planks of sapele and mahogany, 

*Sapele ..... another fine looking wood w/ character...
Workability: Sapele can be troublesome to work in some machining operations, (i.e., planing, routing, etc.), resulting in tearout due to its interlocked grain. It will also react when put into direct contact with iron, becoming discolored and stained. Sapele has a slight blunting effect on cutters, but it turns, glues, and finishes well....*

but all of them are rough sawn, hence my problems with getting smooth sides.

*100% rough sawn surfaces??? or just the edges???

smooth straight sides w/ a router are cake and pie...
clamp a straight edge to your board set back from the edge so that the router w/ a straight bit installed just barely shaves the edge...
presto!!! one clean straight edge... 
you may have to move the straight edge several times to get where you need to be depending on the irregularities of the edge...
now run the board through the TS w/ the trimmed edge to the fence to get both of your edges parallel......
this method produces very little waste...
*

I've just been out to the table saw, the riving knife can be removed easier than I thought. But I have no depth adjustment because of the multitude of safety interlinks on the saw. So I have a small plank of wood 90mm x 25mm that i want to rip into 3 off 90 x 6 , but the blade cuts 60mm. 

*you won't get 3 each cuts at 6mm because of the thickness of the blade and the material it removes/turns to saw dust...... *

I understand it is too dangerous to saw all the way through?
*I do it all the time as long as the cut off isn't between the blade and the fence...
the riving knife in place for these cuts w/o the blade guard is a major plus... 
try and hold the depth of your cuts to 55% of thickness in a pass...*

I believe because of the nature of your woods, the scarcity of material and what have you a better band saw and hand planes will do you the most justice...
some of those woods you listed are prone to tear out... something you need to learn how to work around...
a band saw and hand planes (more useful in the long term) will give you far less waste and you'll pick up a skill set that'll look good in your resume...


Sharpening Angles for Bench & Block Planes | Virginia Toolworks


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I did see that warning on mansonia, shame because its a very pretty wood. I only have a small piece left, and shant get any more. i always wear a dust mask to FFP3 spec. and have a pretty good dust extraction system which I DO actually use. i also vacuum the whole shop bench and floor after every days work, mainly to keep the s.o. happy
The meranti is just not pretty enough to carry on using, so that wont be too much of a problem.

I've already experienced the tear out on the sapele, that was a self taught learning curve (g) but its very nice when finished, so I may well get some more of that.
the beech is quite good to work, shame its quite bland in colour.

the hard wood available here is all rough sawn planks. no planed edges.

i have a small router mounted on a 3ft sledge, and i am using that to get the sawn pieces reasonably flat, but it is very noisy, time consuming and material wasteful, so I think I am going to have to save the pennies for a planer thicknesser. In the meantime, i shall try to get my next planks sawn and planed at a wood yard where i am known, into 8mm thicknesses. Most of what i am currently interested in can be made from that thickness. i can only ask them nicely, as they dont sell hardwoods, but i do get all my construction timber from them.

just tried to download sketchup to help me make plans, but it wont because i dont have windows 7. oh well.....


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

So where are you on Cyprus, re the division of the Island, Bob? Do you need to speak either Greek or Turkish to do business with the suppliers?
Would it be practical to establish a small hardwood import business there?
Seems like bringing in shiploads of firewood would be a golden opportunity as well. Maybe not cost effective? How about _planting_ trees, and I mean lots of them? Too much erosion for success?
If you saw how much wood is wasted here in the Pacific Northwest it'd make you cry.

If I remember my History correctly, this whole treeless thing began with the huge demand for wood for the wooden warships fleets of Persia, Rome, Carthage, Phoenicia, and Greece
Ancient deforestation revisited. - PubMed - NCBI
Not just ships apparently...
Deforestation during the Roman period - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Typical municipal wood waste pile (BC) in pic below:
and slash burning in Winter:


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I live just on the cypriot side of the border. We are in our 7th year now. The locals speak greek. Have you ever heard that saying " its all greek to me" to describe something you cant understand? well its totally apt. Greek language has FIVE seperate ways of writing "E" sounds. and several of them dont contain the letter E. i tried, went to night school, got totally confused. Luckily, a very large percentage of cypriots speak very good english as the two countries have been so closely linked for a long time. With an entiire cypriot population of under 1 million, there are around 40,000 british ex-pats. We get by.

The turkish side is third world by comparison. But very interesting to tour. We occasionally go there for evening meals, we have to take our passports to cross the border. Its quite fun looking at the menu and just having to point to what you want to eat.(assuming there are pictures, it gets interesting if there arent).

The wood supply here; remember we are in the middle east. its very hot and completely dry for over half the year (think florida without any rainfall). A forest here would be described as small grove in the usa. there are no surface rivers, just storm gulleys. Local wood is burned, everything else is imported.

There are many woodyards and most tools are available, and cypriots are very hard working people, many have two or even three jobs. But because of that, none of them have hobbies. apart from sitting outside coffee shops. its a foreign concept to them. Any arts and crafts or hobby activity is solely among the ex-pats.

Thats why I have so much trouble obtaining stuff. If I want to buy a cubic metre of walnut, no probs. if i want a couple of foot off a plank, no one will cut the bit off because then they wont be able to sell the rest.

pictures like you posted are very depressing, but its the same old story, transporting that waste to somewhere it could be used would cost more than buying new would.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks, Bob; That was really interesting!
Strange eh? we can't get rid of the stuff and you're desperate for it... 

(I hear that Greek is much easier to understand after a bottle or two of Retsina.)


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

even retsina doesnt make greek easy to understand. i worked with cypriots in a cypriot company for 6 years before retiring, they found it easier to speak english to me than teach me greek. I know cypriots who admit to me (in english) that their language is crazy.

dont get me wrong, we have lived here for over 6 years and havent had a days regret, but greek is a lost cause.

back in the UK, every local council has a waste disposal facility, for recycling, and each one has a large skip just for wood, and its filled almost daily. what I wouldnt give to be able to sort through something like that once in a while. here, nothing is recycled. its an alien concept to the government.


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Bob.

I thought the same when I saw Stick´s post. Did you see the example plan?


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

papasombre said:


> Hi, Bob.
> 
> I thought the same when I saw Stick´s post. Did you see the example plan?


I almost bought some of those gatto plans for model cars, but its a strange set up. he lists an ordinary house address, but he doesnt live there, he gives no phone or email details, and doesnt take paypal.
Thats no good to me.

I am so very new to woodworking as a hobby, that I find almost everything very hard to make. I can make 15 metre square sun pergolas, easier than I can make a 10cm square trinket box.

but I am not giving up (yet)


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