# Table Saw Fences.



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Earlier this week there was thread were the OP had a problem with his fence not locking down accurately -and- asked about other fences... That opened up the gates to discussion of fences and wondered away from what he asked about "his" problem with "his" table saw.

I enjoyed where that was heading discussion was heading but didn't want to muddy the waters there... So I started this thread to continue discussion on fences.

People here have table saws. They have used fences, come up with work-arounds to get there fence to work for them, replaced fences with upgrades, decided on saws with a major buying point on the fence it had...

Feel free to talk about the fence your saw has. Post pictures of your fences. Talk about your fences short comings and how you make it work for you. If you can do that, you share that with others who can learn from your experience, your preferences of what your think is acceptable to you, what is accurate, what is easy to use and what is quality to you.

Me? I built my own fences from lessons learned on what worked and what didn't. Learned from pictures of other's fences. Of jigs that I wanted to use with my fences and what didn't work well with a fence and how do do those things differently. When I think fences though, I think rip and separately, crosscut fences...

I posted pics of the last fence system I built. The new saw?
















Yes Phil. The current fence on that saw is modeled after the Altendorf. (Picture attached) I already had the rep measure it out for mods I want to do to make it work for me. It will work as is. but to use some of my many jigs- A section of 2040 Aluminum extrusion will slip in place of the high-low fence extrusion. It is an "L" fence with micro-adjustment and a adjustable length (front to back). The reason it is an "l" instead to a T-Square is because of the sliding table. The second attached picture is the Altendorf WA8 for comparison.

Well, what do "you" think about your fence or one you would like to use? What do you wish your fence did? What does your fence not do that P__'es you off and wish it did better? What do you think?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You keep trolling that new saw through here, Mike, and there's gonna be rust all over it from the drooling! 

As I was saying on that other thread, my only complaint that I have with my Delta Contractor saw's OEM fence is that it tends to jump a wee bit as I lock it down.
I was playing around with it after I commented a couple of days ago, and I noticed that if I take the slack out by pulling against the fence casting, I can eliminate the movement at the back end when I _do_ lock it down. Don't know why I never tried that in the past...


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Over the years I've used quite a few different types / brands of fences and most have, I felt; had serious shortcomings. The reason I initially chose the Hitachi C10FL hybrid saw was because it has a very simple - yet effective fence system. It worked so well that when one saw wasn't enough, another identical saw was purchased. Several years later, I am still thrilled with those saws. Like so many things that come disassembled, it came with directions that were not the "greatest", but I figured-out what they were trying to say and got both saws assembled to perfect accuracy. There is nothing about this fence that needs alteration. It works perfectly and neither saw has ever given a problem. I have a pair of Rockler's fence clamps and use those when I need to have a taller edge on the fence - but that is not frequently called upon. I am overall pleased with the entire saw(s), but have noticed that the "dust funnel" on the unside of the cabinet is too flat - the slide needs to be steeper - this has not been much of a problem, so we rarely even give it any thought to it. Every few days of use, we open the back door of the cabinets and vacuum out what didn't fall through. If I ever need a third saw, I'll be looking hard for another one like these.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

My jobsite saw is like that. Ryobi. On it I push the fence back against the fence "casting," which it rides / seats against and it's square. The locking mechanism pulls back against the back of the saw to lock it down. On that saw, no way of even changing the fence system as the front rail is cast as a part of the table. As I said, it is accurate, but it is a two-handed affair. No holding onto your work and locking the fence at the same time.

On the Fence system I built for my Rockwell, it started out as a Biesemeyer Clone style... When I was building it, I noticed that I had to pull it towards me to keep it against the rail until locked down to keep it square. That's when I added another bracket to it on the front side (with spring bars and slider bushings) to keep it snug and aligned to the fence rail. I think if I did it again or mod'ed it more I'd add an adjustment there on how snug to keep it aligned on the rail.

On the both those saws, with the fence unlocked, the fence lifts right off the saw. On new TSS (not here yet), it is accurate even when not locked, slides like glass, but has it drawbacks also. I don't see it as being able it just lift off. The knuckle is 2 pieces of cast iron dovetailed together (the micro-adjust mechanism). It looks like the round rail goes through the front knuckle of the fence. To get the fence off, you would have to slide the fence off the end of the rail. Since the slider is right there on the left of the blade edge and the left of the rip fence rail ends there at the blade... You don't have to move to do that... You just push the slider forward and the left of the rip fence rail is clear. I guess for me that's just going to be re-learning techniques.

Like I said, I already have some moded's planned for it to make it work for me with my jigs.

I guess from talking with other owners of that saw, the crosscut fence on the sliding table has some quirks also. Out the door to work... continued tonight.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I use the Shopfox W1410 system. It slides silky smooth also. It is always parallel.. you would have to force it out of parallel and lock it for it not to be. The picture showing the entire cabinet saw being lifted by the fence shows it strength. (Don't try that at home!)

As with all system, there are a couple of issues. Can't lift it off. It must be slid off the end of the rails.
Also it cannot be used with the blade guard for less than about 1 1/2" rip cuts. 

It works well with board buddies, I don't worry about it being parallel, I always_ know_ its parallel. It is solid as a rock, when locked, and glides along _very_ easily with one finger when not locked. I just recently added the long rail set to give it 54" to the right of the blade rip capability.(although most of the time I would rather break down large sheets with my circular saw and a straight edge.. not getting any younger:sad: ) They do allow me to just push the fence out of the way without removing it most of the time.

It came with my Grizzly G1023Z 17 years ago, and other than the longer rails, I have had zero reason to think of changing it!(although the Incra TS III is tempting... maybe on my Craftsman, although it has a pretty good fence of it's own!).


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

As Mike says about his, the Delta also just lifts off...no rear clamping.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> As Mike says about his, the Delta also just lifts off...no rear clamping.


I like the Delta Unifence for several reasons, but I have not seen a fence that doesn't lock to a rear rail that won't flex a significant amount at the rear with relatively light side pressure.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not mine. I have absolutely no issue with deflection. Guess I should count my blessings!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> I like the Delta Unifence for several reasons, but I have not seen a fence that doesn't lock to a rear rail that won't flex a significant amount at the rear with relatively light side pressure.


Curious if it is flexing at the aluminum fence extrusion, the rail extrusion or at the knuckle? Heard one person say that they have flex in the fence extrusion of the uni-fence when breaking down large sheets... but someone else wanted to debate that with him. Doesn't the handle on the uni-fence go left and right to unlock-lock? How does that work? Pulls on a locking piece inside the rail slot? And if it pulls on that piece how does it get out of that slot to lift off? (always wondered about that...)

Also heard on the Vega Fence that there was a problem when locking, where the back of the fence would lift up off the rear rail. Vega's fix for that was to add a rear clip to lock around the rear rail. What that did for that fence was took it from being able to lift off, to having to slide it off the end. Someone found the problem was in the locking mechanism. When you go to lock it, it lifts up on the rear of the fence. He took off that rear clip, then took out the locking cam pin and turned the locking cam over upside down... Now when he goes to lock it, he pulls on the locking handle up instead of down, and it pushes the rear of the fence down against the rear rail (where it already is) instead of lifting the fence up. Now he can also remove his fence as a lift off.

The fence system I built for my Rockwell doesn't seem to flex even with full sheets. It is not locked to the rear rail, although I do have a rear rail (angle iron) there for it to slide on smoothly (so the rear glides over the miter slots). I was going to add a steel tubing rail to the rear, but I figured since I wasn't going to lock it down there (was a change in plans), I just turned the angle over to ride on that. 

That thing is a beast. Lots of steel. Like I said, I over-built it. I think it's physically too heavy to lift the rear and too stout to flex. The fence is made from steel tubing with wood faces, angle iron front and rear of the front fence rail. Angle iron front and rear of the saw as fence rail guides. The front fence rail is also steel tubing. The fence lifts off (out) when unlocked, but it is "not" light.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh yes... the crosscut fence issues with that TSS.

OEM, the crosscut fence pivots in the first miter slot of the sliding table and the lock is 3-4" away in the same slot. It has a bracket with an adjuster on the front edge of the sliding table to act as a 90 degree stop. 

So at 90 degrees (normal perpendicualr to the blade) there is somewhat good support. A 48" fence, on miters off from 90 degrees, with the locking mechanism only being 4" away, there is not so good a support and it sometimes shifts. It you move the fence to the rear of the slider to push against the slider fence, you have to order another 90 degree stop to lock that in as a positive stop for the rear fence position..

I put in the order for their positive lock miter extension table, which bolts on the side of the slider (t-slots) and changes the pivot point miter slots and locks to that graduated table, with a wider distance between them. It solves solid locking and positive stop locking with the crosscut fence in both the front and rear positions of the slider, as well as with the fence anywhere in-between. 

The other option was their large support table, which adds another 37" left of the slider, which also locks the end of the first part of the fence at 48". The fence extends another 48" with it's extension. But at almost $1300, I figured I could do without that option! Actually the large support table itself is only $272, but the required support arm needed to support the outside edge of that table is over $1000. Wow. I figured, if later, I really found that I "needed" something like that, that I could probably build my own precision telescopic support arm for less than $100 in materials.

I think the slider clip-on extension support table and the positive stop miter extension table will give me 3' of support left of the blade for most the length of the slider (50" length, 71" inches of travel)).


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