# Pantry Pull-Out



## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

My family draws names for Christmas and this year I managed to get my wife. I have chosen to build her a pantry pull out and would appreciate any advise you have to offer.

It has to go between the refrigerator and the wall (about 16") and as tall as the refrigerator. I want the cabinet to be as deep as the refrigerator as well. 

I've been looking at track that would be strong enough and came across one that's floor mount and it has a track at the top middle. This seems to be the most heavy duty but it is an expensive way to go.

I've also seen one where there is a track at the center top and one on each side at the bottom but those slides are only rated at 130 pounds. 


Any advise?

Bryan


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

150# plus filing cabinet drawer side mount glides top bottom and perhaps center...
these types can be had to 300#....
*http://www.cabinetmakerssupply.com/ball_bearing_full_extension_cabinet_supply_660_ctg.htm*


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> 150# plus filing cabinet drawer side mount glides top bottom and perhaps center...
> these types can be had to 300#....
> *Ball Bearing, Full extension - Cabinet Drawer Slides - Cabinet Drawer Slides & Specialty Slides*



Thank you.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@bryansong - Have you searched HOUZZ for ideas. Some of their ideas are tagged with the source info.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> @bryansong - Have you searched HOUZZ for ideas. Some of their ideas are tagged with the source info.


No Mike I haven't, I'm not familiar with that site. I'll look at it.

Thanks!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

She'll love it. Make those drawers out of some heavy duty stock, it is very easy to load up a shelf with canned goods weighing a lot. We use the pantry a lot. Only thing I'd change is having a couple of shelves closer together. Smaller stuff can go there. 

The brackets should be self closing so you don't wreck the doors by banging them into still open drawers all the time. 

If the pantry is next to the refrigerator, make provision for the door to hit a felt pad instead of the metal. My refer is black, so I put the black pads on the edge of the referigerator door, top and bottom so the pantry door stiles land on them. The pads are all but invisible.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> She'll love it. Make those drawers out of some heavy duty stock, it is very easy to load up a shelf with canned goods weighing a lot. We use the pantry a lot. Only thing I'd change is having a couple of shelves closer together. Smaller stuff can go there.
> 
> The brackets should be self closing so you don't wreck the doors by banging them into still open drawers all the time.
> 
> If the pantry is next to the refrigerator, make provision for the door to hit a felt pad instead of the metal. My refer is black, so I put the black pads on the edge of the referigerator door, top and bottom so the pantry door stiles land on them. The pads are all but invisible.



Good ideas Tom, the planning is underway.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Brian,
I spent literally years pondering over my pantry pull-outs before I ever even started drawing them up. I'm an engineer, and sort of OCD to boot. Here are my recommendations:

1. Make a bottom unit and a top unit to cut down on the weight of each drawer and increase flexibility. No need to pull out a massive 7 foot tall drawer when you could pull out a 3 foot tall drawer instead.

2. Use standard full-extension heavy-duty drawer slides instead of something built specially for pull-outs. They're less expensive, will carry the weight, and if one ever fails, easy to find a replacement. I used a pair of slides for each drawer; it's really just a tall drawer.

3. Install nylon guide wheels inside the top of the face frame to limit the side-to-side movement of the top of the drawer. It won't turn over anyway, but the guide wheels just take out the "tippyness" of the tall narrow drawer. 

4. Make shelves adjustable. Sooner or later, you'll want to change something.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Oh yes, I forgot: I made drawer fronts for the drawers instead of hiding them behind a door. Why open a door so you can pull out a drawer? If the drawer closest to the hinge isn't quite all the way in when you close the door, you'll rack the hinges.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DonkeyHody said:


> Brian,
> I spent literally years pondering over my pantry pull-outs before I ever even started drawing them up. I'm an engineer, and sort of OCD to boot. Here are my recommendations:
> 
> 1. Make a bottom unit and a top unit to cut down on the weight of each drawer and increase flexibility. No need to pull out a massive 7 foot tall drawer when you could pull out a 3 foot tall drawer instead.
> ...


Andy, thanks for that advise on the two pull out solution and the adjustable shelves. I want to make this a tall cabinet but I've been sitting here tonight running this over and over in my mind and couldn't decide on a one or two pull outs. I'm still not sure but you've definitely given me more to think about.

This thing is going to be about 30" deep so I'm kind of worried about the rigidity of having adjustable shelving. I think putting upright side rails to each shelf is a must and should stop the shelf from bowing or sagging.

What do you think? 

Bryan


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is some reading for ya.
Search results for: 'pantry pull out'

Rev-A-Shelf makes some pullouts. Scroll through a couple of the pages and the rev-a-shelf stuff will appear.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Brian, If my pull-outs were as deep as yours, I think I'd use a center support for the shelves. Adds a lot of flexibility. 

Here's a quick sketch-up of what I'm talking about.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> Here is some reading for ya.
> Search results for: 'pantry pull out'
> 
> Rev-A-Shelf makes some pullouts. Scroll through a couple of the pages and the rev-a-shelf stuff will appear.


Wow Mike those are beautiful. Do you think the shelves are Baltic Birch or Maple. I mean the wide up and down pieces.

Bryan


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DonkeyHody said:


> Brian, If my pull-outs were as deep as yours, I think I'd use a center support for the shelves. Adds a lot of flexibility.
> 
> Here's a quick sketch-up of what I'm talking about.


Andy, that is an excellent idea and that's what I'm going to do. That solves the sagging worry but now I need to find a jig to drill the holes for the adjustable shelves. I was looking at one at Rockler yesterday but that's the only one I've looked at so I'm open to input from anyone with suggestions for other jigs. I'll look today at what's out there.

Great suggestions, thank you.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

I used metal shelf standards and clips like these, only brown. 

https://www.amazon.com/Knape-Vogt-S...id=1509022923&sr=8-8&keywords=shelf+standards

I didn't cut dados for the standards, just mounted them on the surface of the uprights with screws instead of nails. I cut notches in each shelf to fit around the standard. Now the shelf won't slide side-to-side. 

Another reason to use drawer fronts instead of a door to hide the pull-outs is that when you open the door, it blocks access to one side of the pull-out. Make the two pull-outs of different widths so you'll have room on one for the wide stuff.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Andy,

I think I would rather go the shelf pin route.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> Andy,
> 
> I think I would rather go the shelf pin route.


a loaded shelf and a moving cabinet quite often don't go together well...
be safe.. use the standards...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> a loaded shelf and a moving cabinet quite often don't go together well...
> be safe.. use the standards...



What!!!

I don't have a dado stack set for my table saw, just as I don't have a shelf Pin Jig.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DonkeyHody said:


> I used metal shelf standards and clips like these, only brown.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Knape-Vogt-S...id=1509022923&sr=8-8&keywords=shelf+standards
> 
> ...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

You can buy shelf pins that have holes in the support piece so you can screw it to the shelf.
https://www.amazon.com/Rok-Hardware...qid=1509032784&sr=8-8&keywords=shelf+pins+1/4

Also, I use the Kreg shelf pin drilling jig. Easy to use and pretty versatile. I have drilled a lot of holes with the jig. Actually, I have two of them attached together (with supplied connector) to make it easy to drill holes in cabinets sides. I know there are a lot of shop built jigs that folks make and use, but this jig works well for me.
https://www.amazon.com/KREG-KMA3200...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=P0WP76Y0JBGMX1NC59J8


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> You can buy shelf pins that have holes in the support piece so you can screw it to the shelf.
> https://www.amazon.com/Rok-Hardware...qid=1509032784&sr=8-8&keywords=shelf+pins+1/4
> 
> Also, I use the Kreg shelf pin drilling jig. Easy to use and pretty versatile. I have drilled a lot of holes with the jig. Actually, I have two of them attached together (with supplied connector) to make it easy to drill holes in cabinets sides. I know there are a lot of shop built jigs that folks make and use, but this jig works well for me.
> https://www.amazon.com/KREG-KMA3200...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=P0WP76Y0JBGMX1NC59J8



Mike, I saved your amazon link.

As for the Kreg, it sure looks like a sturdier piece. You don't need that special centering bit with this do you? Does it come with a special bit? I'll look it up.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Mike,

You're winning, I like the Kreg pin jig and the pins you can screw to your shelf.

I have an old kreg pocket hole jig that works slick so I know about the drill bit collar.

Their pin jig uses the same concept.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> What!!!
> 
> I don't have a dado stack set for my table saw, just as I don't have a shelf Pin Jig.


so use a straight or a mortising router bit..
cleaner faster than a dado blade..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have and like the Kreg shelf pin jig. Simple setup, really just a drill guide. It came with a short bit and stop. Works for me.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> so use a straight or a mortising router bit..
> cleaner faster than a dado blade..


As I recall (and it's been a while), the standard is an odd width - at least the ones we used (KV maybe?) - but not too odd evidently because someone made a cutter (around 5/8" diameter?) for cutting the dado. Or use a 1/2" bit and cut in two passes.

I used standards for the pantry/storage area in my last house, and surface mounted the standards. I cut the notches in the ends of the shelves on the router table - clamped the shelves to a miter gauge with an extension bolted to it which also prevented blowout at the back of the cut. The regular table fence kept the notch location constant. Kind of on the same order as making box joints except only one notch.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

the standards I use take a ¾'' bit...
the import standards take a MM bit or an undersized plywood bit..

if you recess the standards cut a slight notch in the bottom of the shelf for the clip to reside in...
no more shelf movement...
ya know... a screwed in standard, because of it's shape, will act as stiffener...

if you use pins...
clamp two shelves together and drill an indent a fuzz larger than the pin in the ends to receive the pins...
round pins work best for this...
in the cace of flat faced pins, traet then like standard shelf clips...
the short coming of pins is that w/ the shelf loaded and the movement of the pull out tend to wallow out the pin's mounting hole and then things start to go south and you'll need to be retroactive...
if you use MDF for the pull out it's downhill from the start...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

tomp913 said:


> As I recall (and it's been a while), the standard is an odd width - at least the ones we used (KV maybe?) - but not too odd evidently because someone made a cutter (around 5/8" diameter?) for cutting the dado. Or use a 1/2" bit and cut in two passes.
> 
> I used standards for the pantry/storage area in my last house, and surface mounted the standards. I cut the notches in the ends of the shelves on the router table - clamped the shelves to a miter gauge with an extension bolted to it which also prevented blowout at the back of the cut. The regular table fence kept the notch location constant. Kind of on the same order as making box joints except only one notch.



Tom, that's a good idea. As long as my shelves aren't too long I do it that way. I think they are going to be around 15".


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## dick kessler (Oct 27, 2017)

Over the past 20 years I have spent a lot of time struggling with panty storage. In the house that burned down, I made 30 inch wide pullouts on fixed shelf heights in an old wall oven cabinet. i thought that was a great idea until i tried to find the can of sauce that was buried in the center of the bottom most pullout shelf. in the replacement house not having room or desire for a panty closet and it being a very inefficient use of space i decided on exactly determining what i needed. 
so access from both sides of the pull out was vital: so i measured cans and decided on a 2 can width; then not knowing how tall I would always need I decided on adjustable shelving (pins) ; then after looking at the cost of pull out bracketing from all the manufacturers including those from china I decided to determine the maximum weight on each pull out pantry. with that in mind I have determined that only one company with a top and bottom slide at reasonable price was accuride. then having thought i made the correct decision for a completely pullout pantry wood frame, adjustable shelving I looked at pinterest and houzz and found some folks who lowered the cost of the heavy duty slides even more by using under the pantry rubber wheels, which would take the weight and thus permit a lighter duty slide and thus lower cost. so that was my decision process. i hope my experience might help


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

dick kessler said:


> Over the past 20 years I have spent a lot of time struggling with panty storage. In the house that burned down, I made 30 inch wide pullouts on fixed shelf heights in an old wall oven cabinet. i thought that was a great idea until i tried to find the can of sauce that was buried in the center of the bottom most pullout shelf. in the replacement house not having room or desire for a panty closet and it being a very inefficient use of space i decided on exactly determining what i needed.
> so access from both sides of the pull out was vital: so i measured cans and decided on a 2 can width; then not knowing how tall I would always need I decided on adjustable shelving (pins) ; then after looking at the cost of pull out bracketing from all the manufacturers including those from china I decided to determine the maximum weight on each pull out pantry. with that in mind I have determined that only one company with a top and bottom slide at reasonable price was accuride. then having thought i made the correct decision for a completely pullout pantry wood frame, adjustable shelving I looked at pinterest and houzz and found some folks who lowered the cost of the heavy duty slides even more by using under the pantry rubber wheels, which would take the weight and thus permit a lighter duty slide and thus lower cost. so that was my decision process. i hope my experience might help


That is some very good information Dick. I too have looked at those sites for ideas and have a general idea of what I want to build. I'm still in the development stage as you can probably tell if you've been reading my post. I'd like to avoid the wheels if I can but I haven't ruled them out yet.

Bryan


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> a loaded shelf and a moving cabinet quite often don't go together well...
> be safe.. use the standards...



This is the post I've been looking for. Saturday I received my Kreg shelf Pin Jig in the mail. I'm glad I went ahead and bought it 
but for this project I will be using Shelf Standards. Cutting the notches will be easy once I get my new Dado Blade set.

Thank you all for the great ideas.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

they are actually groves...
dadoes - cross grain...
grooves - w/ the grain...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

I didn't know that.


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## numbskull (Nov 25, 2021)

bryansong said:


> My family draws names for Christmas and this year I managed to get my wife. I have chosen to build her a pantry pull out and would appreciate any advise you have to offer.
> 
> It has to go between the refrigerator and the wall (about 16") and as tall as the refrigerator. I want the cabinet to be as deep as the refrigerator as well.
> 
> ...


I was hoping to find the answer in a search but no such luck, I've been asked to build a pantry with one large pull out like in the picture below. has anyone had any luck using the full extension sildes, maybe 4 of them or so like in the second picture. Im trying to get around buying the 3-400 dollar slides made specifically for this application, Unless of course they are truly the better option. thanks


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

numbskull said:


> I was hoping to find the answer in a search but no such luck, I've been asked to build a pantry with one large pull out like in the picture below. has anyone had any luck using the full extension sildes, maybe 4 of them or so like in the second picture. Im trying to get around buying the 3-400 dollar slides made specifically for this application, Unless of course they are truly the better option. thanks



Hello Numbskull,

I built the pantry pullout in this post. It has only one center slid under the drawer, It’s in place in our kitchen 
the single bottom slide works but it’s overloaded now but still works. I have a plan to add a top center mount full extension slides in the future, in fact I have the new set of slides already. Anyway,
I built a gun cabinet for my son-in-law that uses a pair of full extension slides drawer slides on the bottom (side mounted), then on top a pair in the center turned inward. I hope that makes sense because I’m having trouble finding a good picture for you. (I’ll keep looking).
That second set really worked well but on yours, you wouldn’t necessarily need a center top mount pair of slides. Just use a second set of slides mounted on top how you like. That pair really works well.

I try to find a better picture bu best wishes on your project.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

It’s a comment on the gun cabinet,
Since the cabinet isn’t secured to the wall (though it could be) I have a couple of removable 1” cement concrete block caps to help as a counter weight for the drawer.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Here are pictures of the original pantry pullout. A single center slide rated at 500 pounds, with a top centering guide. It works fine but it is overloaded. Eventually, as I said, I will add another set of slides.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I like the style of the gun cabinet....


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

jw2170 said:


> I like the style of the gun cabinet....


Thanks James


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