# Kinda strange



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Needed a couple of 1/4" shank flush trim bits so I ordered a 1/2" and 3/8" from MLCS last week. They showed up today and the 1/2" was fine but the 3/8" was labeled 9mm. I checked the part #5501 and it is listed as a 3/8" and it is what I ordered. Sure enough, it calipers out to 23/64". I'm going to go ahead and keep it as I don't foresee any issues. If anything, it will follow a slightly tighter template radius. 
Anyone foresee any problems I might have missed? Anyone else experience anything like this? from MLCS or anyone else. :blink:


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi John, as these are flush trim cutters, the width of the cutter is of no real consequence. You are only using one side of the cutter at any time. As long as the shank is the correct diameter. 

We will see more and more of this deception as metric really takes over....

Maybe Harry is on to something....VBG.....


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

It couldn't be that James. 

John, I would call and ask MLCS about it. They may just have grabbed from the wrong stock location.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Mike said:


> It couldn't be that James.
> 
> John, I would call and ask MLCS about it. They may just have grabbed from the wrong stock location.


I initially thought the same Mike but the stock numbers matched on line, on the packing slip and on the packaging.... The cutter diameter and the bearing matched so I really don't see an issue, just more curiosity than anything.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

9mm converts to .35433 which is not even close to 3/8. If you ordered 3/8 you should get a 3/8.


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> 9mm converts to .35433 which is not even close to 3/8. If you ordered 3/8 you should get a 3/8.



Agreed, let them know if you were sent the wrong dimensions.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> 9mm converts to .35433 which is _not even close_ to 3/8. If you ordered 3/8 you should get a 3/8.



23/64 is pretty close to 24/64 in my book....

If the cutter was resharpened, how much would it change? 1/128" of each side?

I do agree however, that, if the cutter is advertised as 3/8 it should be 3/8".. This constitutes false advertising.

But, as I said earlier, there will be more of this to come......


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

I see you guys point, 3/8" is not 9 mm. MLCS does have online chat during business hours. I'll try to get to them that way and see if I can find out what gives.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Ok, I got on chat with MLCS this morning. I posted the transcript in .pdf. Kind of short and sweet "most bits are actually metric but we list equivalents." In many cases I can it of no consequence but in other cases I can see it driving one nuts if they aren't aware of it. It will definitely change bit/bushing offsets if the bushing is imperial and the bit is metric AND YOU DON'T KNOW THAT. I'm not going to quit buying MLCS bits by any means but I am going to add a new layer of selectivity.

Looks like James nailed it "We will see more and more of this deception as metric really takes over...."


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I agree that for a flush trim bit it doesn't matter as much. But reading that conversation makes me not want to buy from MLCS. I don't like the use of poor math (20/1000ths? you mean 2/100ths?) to try minimize the issue. I find it even worse they don't mark on the website that sizes are metric approximations. I would be very unhappy if I bought a 3/4 spiral bit and found it was undersized so my dados would be too tight to fit properly. Since the website doesn't mark it, I can't trust their other listings. 2/100ths" (.02") is slightly larger than 1/64" (.0156") and would be more then enough to cause issues with straight and spiral bits.

Lots of other router bit companies out there, I think I will go to them rather the MLCS.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

NiceG316 said:


> I agree that for a flush trim bit it doesn't matter as much. But reading that conversation makes me not want to buy from MLCS. I don't like the use of poor math (20/1000ths? you mean 2/100ths?) to try minimize the issue. I find it even worse they don't mark on the website that sizes are metric approximations. I would be very unhappy if I bought a 3/4 spiral bit and found it was undersized so my dados would be too tight to fit properly. Since the website doesn't mark it, I can't trust their other listings. 2/100ths" (.02") is slightly larger than 1/64" (.0156") and would be more then enough to cause issues with straight and spiral bits.
> 
> Lots of other router bit companies out there, I think I will go to them rather the MLCS.


Hi Mike - in their defense, the bits are pretty good and reasonably priced. The one in question was only $8. My statement to him about tight dado was to try to get him to assure us that it wasn't an issue with the straight bits but that didn't happen. They do have a chat line that I intend to use to ask that question when I need to order a bit that is dimensionally critical. If enough people tie up their chat line with that type of question things "might" change. I don't think that that is happening with the Katana line as the 1/2" bit I ordered was a Katana and dead on, of course, it was $20.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

NiceG316 said:


> I agree that for a flush trim bit it doesn't matter as much. But reading that conversation makes me not want to buy from MLCS. I don't like the use of poor math (20/1000ths? you mean 2/100ths?) to try minimize the issue. I find it even worse they don't mark on the website that sizes are metric approximations. I would be very unhappy if I bought a 3/4 spiral bit and found it was undersized so my dados would be too tight to fit properly. Since the website doesn't mark it, I can't trust their other listings. 2/100ths" (.02") is slightly larger than 1/64" (.0156") and would be more then enough to cause issues with straight and spiral bits.
> 
> Lots of other router bit companies out there, I think I will go to them rather the MLCS.


Mike I have to agree with you. I buy some MLCS, but only in non critical bits. For critical or the most used bits I buy and recommend US made Whiteside. I have never had a problem, and they are only a dollar or two more, and you can trust them to be what they say they are.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

John if MLCS wants to sell metric sized bits, that's up to them. But they should advertise the actual size so that you know what you are getting. I consider what they did an unaccptable business practice.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I don't think it's a big deal with that bit if the bearing is right size to the cutters it should be just fine,it's a trim bit after all.. 


==


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> John if MLCS wants to sell metric sized bits, that's up to them. But they should advertise the actual size so that you know what you are getting. I consider what they did an unaccptable business practice.


I can't disagree with you Chuck, I kinda like to get what I order also.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> I don't think it's a big deal with that bit if the bearing is right size to the cutters it should be just fine,it's a trim bit after all..
> 
> ...


Bob--on a flush trim you're exactly right. But if Jon hadn't measured and would at some point replaced the bearing with a proper 3/8" bearing, suddenly we're no longer flush trimming. I like the service i've gotten from MLCS, but do have to say that in this instance the measurements should be disclosed for what they are.

Disclaimer...my work is still far enough off that being within 20/1000 of an inch would be cause for celebration. Would be great to have an excuse!!

earl


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> I don't think it's a big deal with that bit if the bearing is right size to the cutters it should be just fine,it's a trim bit after all..
> 
> ...


Hi Bob - Dunno how I missed this earlier... brain cramp I guess. I agree, not an issue with a trim bit, could even be a slight advantage as it will follow a slightly smaller radius. I was just surprised. I'm just a little concerned as Chris said "most" of their bits were metric. I doubt it would matter much on most profiles either, main impact would be on straight bits.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

greenacres2 said:


> Disclaimer...my work is still far enough off that being within 20/1000 of an inch would be cause for celebration. Would be great to have an excuse!!
> earl


Ditto on the disclaimer


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