# Use router to make shelf pin holes ?



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I'm all over the place here . I'm trying to organize my garage as it was just getting to unorganized to find any dang thing , so I gave up on my router table build and was going to build drawers for my work bench , but now I need cabinets on the walls to hold other things that are in the way first .

So I did a terrible thing and should be horse whipped , I bought this POC cabinet from Home Depot thinking it would speed up the process . Those cabinets are not very sturdy IMO so I'm back to making some myself .

One thing I do like is having all those pin holes to put your shelving at the height you want them , plus I think you can add doors using those holes later on if you want . 
I think there 5mm in diameter and I have a festool track that has holes the same exact distance (1.25" apart). 
So I was going to buy a router bit if they make such a diameter and figure out how the track works .
Am I way off base here as I thought the holes would be more accurate with a router as opposed to a drill press ?

Btw guys I'm using 3/4" plywood good one side for the wall cabinets . Don't know if this creates problems with holding the pins as opposed to particle board ?


----------



## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Hi Rick

Use 1/4 inch shelf pins.
Lowes 1/4 inch shelf pins Canada

I'm sure if you did a search you could find more locations in Canada.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

boogalee said:


> Hi Rick
> 
> Use 1/4 inch shelf pins.
> Lowes 1/4 inch shelf pins


Thanks Al as I was thinking bigger is better in a garage where there may be more weight than in a kitchen situation .
I don't know anything about shelf pins but I know I have a 1/4" router bit so that helps


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

skip the shelf pins and go w/ shelf standards...
cover the unit with sliding doors to keep things clean and use the door as wall space...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That's _my_ solution. I ended up buying a second carton of 96" ones 'cause I couldn't find the original carton. I now have a lifetime supply of standards...and clips...for the same reason. 
I normally use #4 x 5/8" Robertson screws rather than the small nails that are shown in your pic, Stick.
Waaaaay faster than drilling all those holes, Rick.
If you use the standards, Rick, make sure you look very carefully at each piece to ensure that the slot numbers all start from the same ends. 
If you need to cut them to length, flush the bottom ends up so they're all even and masking tape them into a tight little bundle. Then you can cut them all at the same time...hacksaw works just fine.
In answer to your question re MDF over plywood. No. Plywood is vastly superior for the holes stability. MDF can flake away under stress.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Stick makes a great point Rick, the shelf clips are very steady compared to pins. If you do decide to use shelf pins a piece of pegboard makes a great template with 1" spacing and it is cheap.


----------



## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I agree with Stick and the others. The standards are way faster and easier than pins. I use Mikes idea of peg board spacing jig. That is what I use if I do pins but as I said standards are way faster and easier.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Great idea Stick ,I never thought of going that route . Maybe I'll get fancy and miter them in . Sliding doors , hmm that's an interesting idea . Miter in two guides?


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Rick,

I totally agree with the standards, also. Pins are not the way to go for anything heavy.

One word of caution on the cabinets. Make them shallow (see the cabinet in Sticks shop photo). If you make them standard size, then you end up shoving things to the back of the shelves. Other things get piled up in front and you are constantly moving things to get to the back.

The best advise I ever got was to install slide out shelves in cabinets, instead of fixed shelves. You can roll out the drawer (shelf) and get to anything in the back. However, this is not always practical for overhead cabinets. 

Bill


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

To answer your question Rick, yes, you can use your router to do shelf pins.

Most use a jig of some sort. Some more complicated then others. Most use a bushing that goes on the router plate that fits in the hole of the template.

Of course, I use the Woodpecker system, but there are less expensive solutions out there.


----------



## ksidwy (Jul 13, 2013)

*Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill*
_....One word of caution on the cabinets. Make them shallow (see the cabinet in Sticks shop photo). If you make them standard size, then you end up shoving things to the back of the shelves. Other things get piled up in front and you are constantly moving things to get to the back._

Yeah Bill you are so right! I regret every time when i have to move all that pile to reach what I really want! Great advice.
Sid.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

ksidwy said:


> *Quote:
> Originally Posted by Bill*
> _....One word of caution on the cabinets. Make them shallow (see the cabinet in Sticks shop photo). If you make them standard size, then you end up shoving things to the back of the shelves. Other things get piled up in front and you are constantly moving things to get to the back._
> 
> ...


+1 I think I made the uppers 14 inches deep. Almost too deep but I had plans to store the nail guns up there...and a lot of other stuff. >


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@RainMan1...
the standards are way stronger...
don't bother dadoing them in...
DIY tracks and channels.. cheap too...
@ksidwy...
11¾ worked out great...
the base is boxed for mechanicals and DC piping...

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/47840-help-experts.html


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Yes, you can use a router with a 1/4" up spiral bit and a small guide bushing. Use a piece of peg board for the hole spacing and just open up the holes to fit the router bushing. Clamp the peg board in position on your cabinet side and plunge cut the 1/4" holes, moving the router to each enlarged hole in the peg board. I cut my peg board so that one edge provides the spacing that I want from the front edge of the cabinet and label it "Front". I cut the opposite edge for the spacing from the back of the cabinet. The peg board is narrower than any cabinet that I build and I just position and clamp the peg board where I want to put the holes. I usually use my DeWalt 611 router with the plunge base because it's light and easy to use. Before switching to using the router I had a 1/4" VIX bit that I used in a hand drill with a piece of peg board that was made in a similar way, but I had opened the holes to fit the sleeve on the VIX bit. VIX bits are more commonly known for their self centering hinge hole boring capability, but they make one that is for drilling shelf pin holes. The end of the sleeve is flat, so positioning it requires a fixture with holes large enough to fit this sleeve. The end result by either method is about the same, but doing it with the router is a bit faster.

Charley


----------



## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

If you want to do doors that slide, be careful of sawdust getting in and making it had to slide. I have a cabinet that has sliders on the bottom and have trouble with that.
Allen


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sliders.. no issue if you do it right...
these are built to carry weight and a lot of it...
plate mounted SGD wheels on 1/2'' angle....


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

When I drill shelf pin holes, I use a Kreg jig (two if more holes are needed). Not cheep but they work good.

Sometimes I use spacers to help position the jig in the right spot. 
This works well if you need to drill holes in the middle of a base cabinet.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thank you all for the replies 

Stick I never thought of using rollers for the sliders . I would kinda like them covered although it's probably unnecessary . These enclosed shelves are only going to be accessible with a ladder as I'm pretty much putting stuff up there that I don't use often but need out of the way


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick, you paid a lot of money for that Festool jig, you ought to use it. Doesn't Festool sell the bit to use in their jig? it should be like a "VIX" bit, or if that is punched for a bushing, they will sell you one separate?

You can always just nail some strips on there too to support the shelf , you will probably never adjust the shelves anyway after you get them filled up, and this is a shop, not a library. Just get the shelves up and filled and on to bigger and better things.

Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

so mortise out the and install them hidden...
which is totally necessary...
milk crate w/ a plywood top is all I need... it's my chair too...
seldom if ever used goes to the top...


----------



## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Golly, that all seems like a lot of work for shelf spacing.

Why not buy some 1/2" think particle board planks, and simply cut two spacers the height you need for each shelf?

Say your case is 96" tall and 36" wide inside. It is 14" deep. Your particle board planks are 12" wide and 1/2" thick. 

The bottom is the first "shelf" of course. The next shelf is to be 14.75" up. So cut two lengths of plank, each exactly 14.75" long on a radial arm saw. Now place those two spacers against the insides of your box and use a single dab of silicone or foam tape to hold them in place. It will not require much, once the weight of the shelves is resting on each level. 

Now you have two shelf supports. Place your second 36" shelf on top of them. 

If your next three shelves are 11.375" high, cut six 12"x11.375" planks, and build the shelving in the same manner. Your top shelf (beneath the top of the box) will not need any plank spacers against the sides above it, since the top of the case dies not need side support.

With this system, if you decide to change the height of a shelf, you can remove the top shelf, pop off the side spacers and continue down as needed. Shave off the old silicone or foam tape with a razor blade (it will not be seen!) and build your new shelves with the proper vertical spacers and you're done. Moving a measured shelf to a different level is a simple matter of lowering the spacers for that shelf in the queue.

The beauty in this is your ability to EXACTLY set the height of each shelf, so there is no wasted space above whatever is stored on that shelf. You can squeeze the greatest amount of "stuff" into a shelving unit, when the paint cans slip into a shelf that only has 1/8" clearance above the cans.

You do lose 1" of width (assuming you are using 1/2" width shelf spacers) and 3/4" of vertical storage space (assuming 3/4" shelving) for each shelf you add, but truthfully, you GAIN space by not having a lot of wasted air space above the items on any given shelf.

If a shelf supports a heavy item, you can add a third spacer at the rear center of the shelf to distribute it's weight over two or more shelves. Split the spacers into 3" wide strips if desired.

All of this plotting with a router and holes and jigs and pins .... sometimes the simplest solution is the best!


----------



## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Hey Stick. I don't know what's nicer, the cabinet or all of the tools stuffed in it!


----------



## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Festool LR 32 tutorial PDF.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

demographic said:


> Festool LR 32 tutorial PDF.


That is slick, I can even understand that and I don't even have a festool.
Herb


----------



## Guitfiddle (Dec 14, 2014)

Regarding the original question about using a router to make holes for shelf pins - guess maybe I'm a little confused. Isn't that what a drill is for - maybe with a drill guide and depth stop if necessary? I guess I'm maybe not as knowledgeable as I thought on uses for routers but seems like it would be a lot more difficult and time consuming than a drill.


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Guitfiddle said:


> Regarding the original question about using a router to make holes for shelf pins - guess maybe I'm a little confused. Isn't that what a drill is for - maybe with a drill guide and depth stop if necessary? I guess I'm maybe not as knowledgeable as I thought on uses for routers but seems like it would be a lot more difficult and time consuming than a drill.


Unlike eyeballing and drilling by hand a router will drill a straight and correctly dimensioned hole to the correct depth.

It's not that you can't drill them by hand, but it is less problematic to use the router.

Bill


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

not if you use one of these...
the jig need not be anything more than peg board...
two layers of and you'll reall br down town...

Self-Centering Drill Bit for Shelf Pin Jigs


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> not if you use one of these...
> the jig need not be anything more than peg board...
> two layers of and you'll reall br down town...
> 
> Self-Centering Drill Bit for Shelf Pin Jigs


I agree, one way of many. Still relies on drilling a straight hole to a correct depth (setting the depth on the Vix Bit). I have used this and a pegboard template many times.

I personally find a router tedious and fussy to set up. Although it is definitely accurate if I do my part.

Like Mike I use a Kreg jig for quick and dirty, in a hurry holes. Little or no set-up, accurate spacing and depth. The Kreg has paid for itself many times over. It is no more expensive then buying any other over the counter template, bushing and bit, or set of Vix bits to do the job.

There are a half dozen ways of doing it accurately. Whatever, you are comfortable doing or have available.

Bill


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

in line drill/boring head/machine... quit playing around...


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> in line drill/boring head/machine... quit playing around...
> 
> Hee ,hee, OH Stick , your jerking our chain now.>
> 
> Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Stick486 said:
> 
> 
> > in line drill/boring head/machine... quit playing around...
> ...


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Joe Jones said:


> Golly, that all seems like a lot of work for shelf spacing.
> 
> Why not buy some 1/2" think particle board planks, and simply cut two spacers the height you need for each shelf?
> 
> ...


Funny you should mention this Joe as I was thinking the same thing


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> When I drill shelf pin holes, I use a Kreg jig (two if more holes are needed). Not cheep but they work good.
> 
> Sometimes I use spacers to help position the jig in the right spot.
> This works well if you need to drill holes in the middle of a base cabinet.


Mike that's actually a pretty cool jig . Is that the same bit you use with there pocket hole jig?


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Mike that's actually a pretty cool jig . Is that the same bit you use with there pocket hole jig?


The jig comes with a special 1/4 inch drill bit.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Joe Jones said:


> Golly, that all seems like a lot of work for shelf spacing.
> 
> Why not buy some 1/2" think particle board planks, and simply cut two spacers the height you need for each shelf?
> 
> ...


Now that you mentioned that, I remember doing it at work. Our lockers were metal, so I took some scrap pieces and made supports for a couple of shelves. A good operator never gets caught at work without a backup supply of goodies, snacks, etc. >


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> The jig comes with a special 1/4 inch drill bit.


Ok Mike I looked at that Kreg jig and I think it's worth owning one . But the specs say it does 5mm holes which is kinda small . Wish they did 7mm as that's close to 1/4" I believe .
Are you certain it does 1/4"? 

Googled the size to standard 

5 millimeters is
0.196 inches


7 millimeters is
0.275 inches


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> in line drill/boring head/machine... quit playing around...


More power..."I don't think so, Tim"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Ok Mike I looked at that Kreg jig and I think it's worth owning one . But the specs say it does 5mm holes which is kinda small . Wish they did 7mm as that's close to 1/4" I believe .
> Are you certain it does 1/4?
> 
> Googled the size to standard
> ...


Basic European standard for all cabinets now a days. 5 mm seems to be the standard. It is difficult to find 1/8" and 1/4" shelf pegs from the normal retailers. You have a pretty good selection mail order.

However, for normal light duty household use 5 mm if fine. I would not use any peg to hold heavier tools/equipment. Stick has already given you the heavy duty solution...no muss, no fuss. Cut the standards to size and have at it.

Bill


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick, you paid a lot of money for that Festool jig, you ought to use it. Doesn't Festool sell the bit to use in their jig? it should be like a "VIX" bit, or if that is punched for a bushing, they will sell you one separate?.....................................
> Herb


Why am I always the last to find out?

I checked your profile and I do not see any Festool jigs listed?

Come on. Fess up. We have a Green KoolAid addiction. This is the first step toward recovery!!!:grin:


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Why am I always the last to find out?
> 
> I checked your profile and I do not see any Festool jigs listed?
> 
> Come on. Fess up. We have a Green KoolAid addiction. This is the first step toward recovery!!!:grin:


Ok after I watched a video I think I'm short a few pieces .I bought a Festool track that has holes spaced the same as they are done (1-1/4" apart) but I think the guys at WP missed a few other things I require .
I'm liking the Kreg jig now , so I think I'm going to order it .

Guys I looked at that strip for clips and wasn't to impressed as it was very flimsy . I'm not even sure what type of screws would work . I think you use pan heads but they will get in the way as they won't sit flush


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

timbertailor said:


> Why am I always the last to find out?
> 
> I checked your profile and I do not see any Festool jigs listed?
> 
> Come on. Fess up. We have a Green KoolAid addiction. This is the first step toward recovery!!!:grin:


I don't have any Festools, Can't afford them to me the are commercial or yuppy tools in the same class as BMW or Porsche. In other words they are for production or a status symbol.

I was just guessing based on the fact that they punched holes into the straight edge, they didn't do that for fun , they did it to milk more money out of the system and you can bet it is proprietary so the bit /bushing has to be bought from them also. Its is like the printers , they sell them cheap to get people to buy the ink. and it is not cheap. Festool is set up as a system, once you buy into it you have to buy all the goodies that go with it.

My shop shelves are supported by a 1X2 on each end, simple ,done , and now I can get onto building projects. Once the shelves are stocked , they are never adjusted, Just done, period.

Herb


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> I was just guessing based on the fact that they punched holes into the straight edge, they didn't do that for fun , they did it to milk more money out of the system and you can bet it is proprietary so the bit /bushing has to be bought from them also. Its is like the printers , they sell them cheap to get people to buy the ink. and it is not cheap. Festool is set up as a system, once you buy into it you have to buy all the goodies that go with it.
> 
> Herb


I think you called it Herb 




Herb Stoops said:


> I don't have any Festools, Can't afford them to me the are commercial or yuppy tools in the same class as BMW or Porsche. In other words they are for production or a status symbol.
> 
> Herb


Yes it's pretty much a cry for help


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok this is a pic similar to what I seen at HD today . Not understanding how ou secure them ? I see these itsy bitsy holes side by side but even from this pic I don't understand what they've done .
Wish the ones we have at HD were numbered like these ones , but no such luck . 

UPDATE. : I just found out they use itsy bitsy nails to secure it


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I got my dark glass, tin cup and sit on the corner ,with a sign ,"Please help festools wanted". :help:

Herb


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Herb Stoops said:


> I got my dark glass, tin cup and sit on the corner ,with a sign ,"Please help festools wanted". :help:
> 
> Herb


More power to you. The local Woodcrafters shop converted over to all Festool about 2 years ago and I can't see the advantage. The term Shopsmith comes to mind. No offense, but I'm too old fashioned for these spendy toys.


----------



## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

" so I gave up on my router table build and was going to build drawers for my work bench"

So what are we supposed to talk about now?


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> " so I gave up on my router table build and was going to build drawers for my work bench"
> 
> So what are we supposed to talk about now?


I'm sure I'll misdirect something again soon . So many projects , to little time . And I'm getting old to boot .

Feeling it more than anything  . I think it's Stick and all that talk about napping all the time that's thrown my system out of sync


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

thy used #4 FH screws... 
piano hinges use the same screw...
set in a dado 1/2 - 5/8'' long screws, 3/4''are too long...
surface mounted get 5/8 - 3/4'' long screws for 3/4'' material
surface mount is the best way to install...

there's nothing stopping you from using #6 PH screws installed in the rectangled slots...


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

old coasty said:


> " so I gave up on my router table build and was going to build drawers for my work bench"
> 
> So what are we supposed to talk about now?


I am sure that Rick will have some questions as he goes along.

Herb


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

JFPNCM said:


> More power to you. The local Woodcrafters shop converted over to all Festool about 2 years ago and I can't see the advantage. The term Shopsmith comes to mind. No offense, but I'm too old fashioned for these spendy toys.


My point is that a production shop might see an advantage in this system to shell out the money for a quality system for production work for various reasons. 

You and I both know that festools don't make you a woodworker, or a better woodworker. Its in your hands, your hands and brain make the woodworker as good as he is regardless of what tools he has to work with. That's my opinion anyway.

Herb


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick, if you are going to do the "Stick" shelf supports ,it is a good time to try out the Festool straight edge with the router. It should be long enough to go full length of the sides.
Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick, if you are going to do the "Stick" shelf supports ,it is a good time to try out the Festool straight edge with the router. It should be long enough to go full length of the sides.
> Herb


don't even suggest a dado...
once done yur stuck... can't adjust w/o repairs or rework...
back to back dadoes weaken the ply too.... two 1/4'' dadoes doesn't leave an awful lot of material...
we know Rick is going to use ply because even though he has a love affair in progress w/ MDF it won't be any better than that crap he got from home desperate...


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> don't even suggest a dado...
> once done yur stuck... can't adjust w/o repairs or rework...
> back to back dadoes weaken the ply too.... two 1/4'' dadoes doesn't leave an awful lot of material...
> we know Rick is going to use ply because even though he has a love affair in progress w/ MDF it won't be any better than that crap he got from home desperate...


Doesn't he need to dado the full length of the sides twice on each side?

Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Doesn't he need to dado the full length of the sides twice on each side?
> 
> Herb


no...
surface mount the standards....


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> no...
> surface mount the standards....


Oh, I thought it had to be flush with the surface and a space in the middle for the hooks on the shelf supports to ride in and not have to notch the shelves for the vertical channels. Look at that picture, it is flush with the face of the sides.
Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Oh, I thought it had to be flush with the surface and a space in the middle for the hooks on the shelf supports to ride in and not have to notch the shelves for the vertical channels.
> Herb


cut the shelves to fit between the standards...
mortising the standards is done on show/display cabs...


----------



## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> That is slick, I can even understand that and I don't even have a festool.
> Herb


I have their plunge/tracksaw and as I was buying another 1400mm rail I paid the extra (can't rightly remember but think it was about a tenner more) to have the one with the LR32 holes. Sort of a future proofing just in case type thing.
I was kind of planning on either making the LR32 kit (think that Woodgears chap has done something like it) or buying the kit when I thought it would come in handy but using it with my little De-Walt compact plunge router kit.
I've been aiming at getting some workshop capabilities for site, it doesn't make any difference this time of year but winters slow the work down a good bit here and if it keeps me working through that period its worth every penny.


The plungesaw is honestly worth the money to me, some of the other kit they make? I'm not so sure and can't see me replacing my Hitachi drills with Festool drills anytime soon.

If anyone thinks I'm a yuppy with to much money then they should see my workvan.

Put it this way, all the money I spent on tools this year could have gone on a newer van, or just replacing panels on the one I have now. 
It gets me to work and being a subcontractor I don't really have to deal with the general public who expect pristine vans parked outside their home so they get to talk about the work they are having done with the folk up the street.
Whichever way I look at it, my vans rough looking, might get another one later on in the year if things work out right.


----------



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Rick, I've made shelf pin holes just about every which way you can imagine. Drill bit with pegboard. Router with a bushing and a jig. Drill press. The only thing I haven't really tried is a line boring machine, because I simply don't have the room for it. I did have room to pick up a partial LR32 kit, and I won't drill shelf pin holes any other way again. It's too simple, it's too clean, and it's too versatile to ever give it up.

A few months ago (back when I was still woodworking), I bought a Woodpecker's jig. It's a good jig, for sure. But it was limited. You can do 5mm or 1/4", and that's it. It's also a pain to try and make drawer slide mounts. Drawer slide mounts? Yes. Later. It was a relative bargain to the LR32 system, but let's face it: if you have a Festool router, and the LR32 track, you're 2/3 toward being able to use it. You could pick up any of the three flavors of kit: The full hog at $495, the half-kit at $250 or the bare-bones at $124. Skip the bare-bones. I went with the mid-kit, and added the 5mm brad-point router bit. 

$270 might be a bridge too far for a lot of folks, but it's all about value to me. All I have to do is figure out exactly where I want the holes, and set up the side stops. Front holes are almost always 37mm in, if you want to use the 32mm standard (it has it's advantages). Put the rail down, attach the stops, secure it, remove the stops, and go about your business. A perfect hole every single time with zero tearout.

Now, I talked about advantages. One advantage would be if you wanted to use the 32mm system all the time, which includes those door cup hinges. The LR32 system has you covered, and the instructions for use are out there. All you have to do is add the 35mm hinge bit. Nothing else. But the absolute number one advantage to me has been for use installing drawer slides. Pretty much anything you buy has mounting holes that are...wait for it...based on the 32mm system. That means that wherever you want to mount your drawer slide, you set up the first hole for 37mm back from the front edge, and one or two more holes back in a multiple of 32. There is a bit of math if you aren't careful with your cabinet depth, but sticking to multiples of 32mm keeps it real simple. I didn't believe it either until I tried it.

When I was making the tough call to return the Woodpecker, I thought about future projects. I know that at some point I'll have to redo my kitchen. I figured with the LR32 system, I could build any cabinets I wanted to and have flexibility later on. I drill holes that can be used for shelf pins OR drawer slides all in the same operation. So if that kitchen cabinet I make could be better served with a couple of pull out drawers instead of shelves, all I have to do is take out the shelf and pins, put my drawer slides in the premade holes and install the new drawer. No drawer runner holders, no measuring, no jigs. Euro screws are cheap and reliable.

Now, I've not used this with face frame cabinets, and with the drawer slides of course you would have to add a spacer. I could take care of spacers with the same level of precision, though. Shelf standards? Sorry, don't think they are particularly good looking, especially when exposed. I'd rather do a wood sawtooth support. The other great thing about using a router (any router, if your bushing allows for larger sizes) is the ability to use like a 7mm bit and some sweet pin sleeves. Really dresses up your project, should it call for a little bit extra.

Some people would rather make jigs. More power to them.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> cut the shelves to fit between the standards...
> mortising the standards is done on show/display cabs...


I disagree Stick, it has been 20 years since I installed any of those type standards,and as I remember we dadoed them in and it wasn't a showcase. 
Rick is better off going with the shelf pins then if he has to cut his shelf short for the standards.
Herb


----------



## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> Rick is going to use ply because even though *he has a love affair in progress w/ MDF* it won't be any better than that crap he got from home desperate...


You are right Stick, I have noticed that too >


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I disagree Stick, it has been 20 years since I installed any of those type standards,and as I remember we dadoed them in and it wasn't a showcase.
> Rick is better off going with the shelf pins then if he has to cut his shelf short for the standards.
> Herb


he can dado if he wishes...
this storage cabs in the garage we're talking about here... 
cutting the shelves short do not compromise anything...
pins are very weak over standards...
those shelf units I showed are surface mounted and are carrying a lot of weight...
good luck w/ pins being successful especially after the pin holes elongate...

I have this system...

Veritas® 32 Cabinetmaking System - Lee Valley Tools


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I was going to go with standards except the ones we have available here are about twice as thick as the original tinfoil . I'm really wanting to build these tommorow and the Windsor Plywood doesn't have the Festool 32 jig system in stock but they did have the Kreg pin jig in stock , two actually so I bought them both . 
If there good enough for Mr.Stringer there good enough for me 

Cochese I would still like to invest in the LR32 someday . I watched a video on it and it looks like a pretty slick system 

Btw guys the jig does 1/4" pins , and the ones I bought are kind of an angled piece for extra strength . Should have got the ones with a screw hole to secure them to the shelf though


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

You will find out but there is a tie that connects the two jigs together.
And you could go crazy swapping the brackets around. One way, the holes are spaced away from the edge about an inch, the other side they are spaced 2 inches (I think).

I usually space the holes 2 inches from the back because the cabinet back is usually inset into a rabbet.
The front side I drill one inch from the front edge.

You can drill them wherever you like. Practice on some scrap.


----------



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> You will find out but there is a tie that connects the two jigs together.
> And you could go crazy swapping the brackets around. One way, the holes are spaced away from the edge about an inch, the other side they are spaced 2 inches (I think).
> 
> I usually space the holes 2 inches from the back because the cabinet back is usually inset into a rabbet.
> ...


Thanks for the heads up Mike , I'm looking forward to trying this . Kreg sure has some neat toys . I'm still can't get over how cool pocket holes are and now this jig . Funny thing is I've seen these jigs collecting dust for years at WP and didn't have a clue what there function was lol


----------



## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> in line drill/boring head/machine... quit playing around...


Stick, the guys who did my cabinets had something like that but it could also drill the euro hinge holes in the doors. It had flip-down stops on each end of a fence, for positioning. I think on theirs the motor was vertical.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

TenGees said:


> Stick, the guys who did my cabinets had something like that but it could also drill the euro hinge holes in the doors. It had flip-down stops on each end of a fence, for positioning. I think on theirs the motor was vertical.



Wow. It would be a good way for me to make multiple mistakes with that gizmo. Just one pull of the handle and I could have shelf holes all over the board.:surprise:

Herb


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Wow. It would be a good way for me to make multiple mistakes with that gizmo. Just one pull of the handle and I could have shelf holes all over the board.:surprise:
> 
> Herb


might as go whole hog...

Grizzly debuts its hinge boring machine | Woodshop News


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> might as go whole hog...
> 
> Grizzly debuts its hinge boring machine | Woodshop News


Just what need for the quadrant hinges on my humidors.:grin:

Herb


----------

