# Base Plate Inserts? Really Necessary?



## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

I am going to build a new table soon and read an article in Fine Woodworking about not using a base plate insert to attach the router and attaching directly to the table. The author used removable tops for different size bits. Interesting? I never heard of anyone doing that. The article also pointed out that by cutting a big hole in the table for the insert that it invites warping. Anybody have any experience with this method?

thanks,
Tom


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

I can't say for sure that cutting a hole in it causes it to warp, other than if it's not sealed it might warp. I do know that if you laminate the top and do not laminate or seal the bottom it will warp. 

I do know that Pat Warner doesn't use base plate inserts, but instead has different table-tops for different diameter bits. I saw that in a Wood magazine or somewhere, I forget.



> I restrict my routing to cutters < 2.25" so my table top is simple, cheap, thin (5/8" MDF), has a small cutter hole and no insert. It remains flat and deflection-free, bolted to 6 dovetailed beams in the top of the stand. The router casting (from a PC 7518) has been bolted to the slab and adds a measure of stiffness/flatness right in the center where it's needed most. What's right for you? Only you can answer that. A 1,2 or 3 layered ply or fiberboard top, clad in plastic laminate, trimmed with maple, window-excavated, rabbetted for an aluminum insert/lift, and fitted with concentric cutter hole rings is not an uncommon sight. This teck has kept it simple so far but I have complicated the fence.


LINK


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just my 2 cents..

I don't know why anyone would mount a router table without a plate..most router bits are not tall ,and the router can lift the bit just so far,most use 3/4" or 1 1/2" thick top on the router table that makes most bits just to short in the router table..

The plate takes care of that error ,most plates are 1/4" thick the norm and some are 3/8" thick ...some will say just cut pocket hole on the bottom side of the top so the router has a way to lift the bit ,then you are just asking for it to fail..( the router table top ) if you are worried about the top going warp ,just bolt the plate in place, the plate will keep the top flat,it's very hard to bend Phenolic.../Alum./plastic etc. once it's screwed down..

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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

If you're worried about the top warping, you could build a torsion box top. It would take a lot of weight to make that kind of top move. The inserts are really handy. Depending on how you're set up for bit changing and lift, removing the insert with router attached is just too easy. With the newer routers, heights can be adjusted from the top, also. 

I dedicated a fixed base for my table and it makes life very easy. If I want to pull the motor to do some plunge base work it is a matter of reaching into the cabinet, loosening the clamp, and unplugging the cord. I only have one router so it was an easy choice to do it with an insert and dedicated base.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

While there is no wrong way to mount a router to a table, most people prefer using a mounting plate. Most plates provide a location to mount guide bushings, many have different sized removeable center sections, and all are thin enough to let the bit extend fully out of the table surface. With many routers it is easier to pop the plate out of the table to make adjustments or bit changes. I would suggest you go with a mounting plate to get started. One of the nice features is you can switch routers easily between tables. Another advantage is you can build a work top for free hand routing, set it on the table top and use a couple pieces of wood to secure it in the plate opening. This is like having a second work table in limited space.


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## Barry99 (Feb 10, 2009)

I believe inserts are the way to go. If you attach directly to the table you are going to loose bit height due to thickness of table compare to inserts and unless you route the table the size of you base to get close to the surface (which would most likely be less strong compare to insert) you may have problems using guide bushings.



rolanddds said:


> I am going to build a new table soon and read an article in Fine Woodworking about not using a base plate insert to attach the router and attaching directly to the table. The author used removable tops for different size bits. Interesting? I never heard of anyone doing that. The article also pointed out that by cutting a big hole in the table for the insert that it invites warping. Anybody have any experience with this method?
> 
> thanks,
> Tom


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## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Ok, thanks for all the input. I'm convinced base plates are the way to go. Now, 1/4 " or 3/8" thickness? Does it make a difference? Aluminum, phenol? any company recommendations here on the base plate inserts ?

thanks,

Tom


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## westend (Mar 31, 2009)

My local Rockler stores have their old 1/4" aluminum plates on clearance. They are transitioning to the Bulldog Mfg. line of inserts. The last time I was in there, they were selling for $15.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

I recommend the 3/8" "phenol " for the big router and a 1/4" one for the 2 1/4 HP routers but I don't recommend ALUM. they will put black marks on your stock once the finish wears off...it's takes no time for it to wear off..  and it's nasty to get off the stock..


The one below it's both in one plate 1/4" and 3/8" you can use the 3/8" lip or make a diff. rabbit for the 1/4"..

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


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rolanddds said:


> Ok, thanks for all the input. I'm convinced base plates are the way to go. Now, 1/4 " or 3/8" thickness? Does it make a difference? Aluminum, phenol? any company recommendations here on the base plate inserts ?
> 
> thanks,
> 
> Tom


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> I recommend the 3/8" "phenol " for the big router and a 1/4" one for the 2 1/4 HP routers but I don't recommend ALUM. they will put black marks on your stock once the finish wears off...it's takes no time for it to wear off..  and it's nasty to get off the stock..


This is interesting. All of the top manufacturers lifts that I am researching; Woodpeckers, JessEm, etc, use aluminum plates. I haven't read of any complaints about wood stock being marked. Maybe they use a higher quality clearcoat finish??


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Joe

That's true but you can't wear off/scratch solid phenolic it's not as good looking as yellow/gold/red coating but the key word ,it's just a coating and will come off/wear off it time..I have seen some that look very old and they are just about a year old..

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jmg1017 said:


> This is interesting. All of the top manufacturers lifts that I am researching; Woodpeckers, JessEm, etc, use aluminum plates. I haven't read of any complaints about wood stock being marked. Maybe they use a higher quality clearcoat finish??


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

jmg1017 said:


> This is interesting. All of the top manufacturers lifts that I am researching; Woodpeckers, JessEm, etc, use aluminum plates. I haven't read of any complaints about wood stock being marked. Maybe they use a higher quality clearcoat finish??


They are not clearcoated; they are anodized. I can't imagine wearing the anodizing off for years unless you are dragging 200 pound parts on it and the plate is sticking up above the table.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

jmg1017 said:


> This is interesting. All of the top manufacturers lifts that I am researching; Woodpeckers, JessEm, etc, use aluminum plates. I haven't read of any complaints about wood stock being marked. Maybe they use a higher quality clearcoat finish??



hi Joe,

ive seen a ton of complaints on this forum about the black marks left on expensive wood. 

i also have seen through posts here and by experience that router lifts are virtually not needed with todays new routers. ive also noticed that when the aluminum insert comes up, its from people new to the forum. most of the real experienced guys use a phenolic plate .i love my phenolic plate!


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Well thanks for the heads up guys. It just seems strange that some of the top names in plates and lifts are offering these aluminum plates in their top of the line products.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Noob said:


> They are not clearcoated; they are anodized. I can't imagine wearing the anodizing off for years unless you are dragging 200 pound parts on it and the plate is sticking up above the table.



hi Paulo,

we have some anodized cookware that was way too expensive! its very easy to nick the protective anodizing layer ! dont count on the anodized stuff to hold up anymore than anything else.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

jmg1017 said:


> Well thanks for the heads up guys. It just seems strange that some of the top names in plates and lifts are offering these aluminum plates in their top of the line products.



it seems like the top names in lifts may use the aluminum stuff, but im not sure they are the top names in plates. just my opinion.


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

levon said:


> hi Paulo,
> 
> we have some anodized cookware that was way too expensive! its very easy to nick the protective anodizing layer ! dont count on the anodized stuff to hold up anymore than anything else.


Are you using metal spoons and is your stove top that the cookware rests on metal? Rubbing metal on metal isn't as harsh as wood on metal. Not saying it will last forever, I was just taking into consideration the frictional coefficient of an anodized router plate and how much surface area a part will slide on compared to the router table top. 

The phenolics are cheaper anyway so that is the way I would go. Bob has pointed out the $20 router plate at Harbor freight so who could ask for a better deal? HF plate LINK And also use this other tip to mount it: Mounting tip LINK I went to the Harbor Freight in Mesquite to pick one up last week and they didn't carry it :cray:

P.S. I also have this tablesaw and know all too well how some feel about tablesaws with aluminum tops: Ryobi LINK 

(not trying to be argumentative, just having an open discussion; hopefully I didn't offend anybody)


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Noob said:


> Are you using metal spoons and is your stove top that the cookware rests on metal? Rubbing metal on metal isn't as harsh as wood on metal. Not saying it will last forever, I was just taking into consideration the frictional coefficient of an anodized router plate and how much surface area a part will slide on compared to the router table top.
> 
> The phenolics are cheaper anyway so that is the way I would go. Bob has pointed out the $20 router plate at Harbor freight so who could ask for a better deal? HF plate LINK And also use this other tip to mount it: Mounting tip LINK I went to the Harbor Freight in Mesquite to pick one up last week and they didn't carry it :cray:
> 
> ...


hi noob,

we spent a considerable amount on the calphalon cookware. we are intelligent people that dont use metal spoons and have a ceramic cooktop.

the anodized surface is very fragile. especially on the outer surface of the cookware that takes the real punishment.

most of the time, you have to order the phenolic plate from harbor freight. ive checked with our local stores and they say its an online only item, so you have to order it.

i will order a couple soon. i have the rousseau plate. i would consider it the most widely used top of the line plate anywhere and it is phenolic

i had the ryobi tablesaw and didnt have that much problem with it marking wood, just had problems with the design and workings of the saw. i saw early on i needed a saw with 2 miter slots to make many jigs for the saw. and i had problems with the fence lock breaking on the rear . i purchased a ts 3660 ridgid and gave the ryobi away.


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Tom,
Use a base plate please, and as for warping, use a substantial top and you won't go wrong, mine is 17 years old and made from a piece of kitchen worktop, is as straight as the day I built it.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

jmg1017 said:


> Well thanks for the heads up guys. It just seems strange that some of the top names in plates and lifts are offering these aluminum plates in their top of the line products.


I guess it depends on who is saying they are the top-of-the-line. The magazines that are paid to advertise them, or the end users?
That's the same as claiming to be "The Ultimate", which is a term I'm tired of seeing and hearing.


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Well the two manufacturers I mentioned, Woodpeckers and JessEm, seem to be highly praised and recognized as premium quality based on all my online research of reviews and customer satisfaction.
I don't know, I'm just trying to educate myself before I make a decision. Any input from those here with experience is gladly welcomed.


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## rolanddds (May 4, 2009)

Wow! I had no idea that the mention of which type of base plate would create so much discussion!!! I'll probably go with the 3/8'" phenol for my new table.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I wonder why there has no mention of the Oak-Park base plates? They are 1/4 in thick phenolic, 11 in square with choices of 1 1/2 in center or 3 1/8 in center, and choice of plain or vacu port for the 1 1/2 in center. These base plates are pre-drilled for specific router models. For hand-held routering, there is a 7 in square base with 1 1/2 in center. All these base plates are designed to interchanged, so one router can have different base plates at different times.
For me the only down sides are that that they are too thin to use the Router Raizer with my particular router, and the 3 1/8 in center is too small for some of the raised panel bits, such as the one that came with my router.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

I don't mention the OP plates for the same as you..
I think you said it all or put down all the down falls with OP pate system(s)
You didn't say anything about the cost, that's a real turn off...once you think it all the way out..

Oak Park Enterprises Ltd.: Catalogue
Oak Park Enterprises Ltd.: Catalogue






mftha said:


> I wonder why there has no mention of the Oak-Park base plates? They are 1/4 in thick phenolic, 11 in square with choices of 1 1/2 in center or 3 1/8 in center, and choice of plain or vacu port for the 1 1/2 in center. These base plates are pre-drilled for specific router models. For hand-held routering, there is a 7 in square base with 1 1/2 in center. All these base plates are designed to interchanged, so one router can have different base plates at different times.
> For me the only down sides are that that they are too thin to use the Router Raizer with my particular router, and the 3 1/8 in center is too small for some of the raised panel bits, such as the one that came with my router.


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## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> HI Joe
> 
> That's true but you can't wear off/scratch solid phenolic it's not as good looking as yellow/gold/red coating but the key word ,it's just a coating and will come off/wear off it time..I have seen some that look very old and they are just about a year old..
> 
> =====


bob my MLCS/harbor freight phenolic plate is scratched up something fierce. in fact i scratched it before even got to install it

also its not flat. its pretty much worthless in my opinion. i know they are supposed to be slightly higher in the center to offset the weight of the router but mine actually dips down. if i lay a straight edge across it there is a 1/16" gap at the center. when i run wood across it it also catches on the trim rings. to use my router table i have to lay a piece of MDF over the top of the plate to act as the router table top in order for it to be flat. if it werent for the ability to use guides i would go back to using no plate and just bolting the base to the underside of the table. i dont raise the plate to make bit changes anyways


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

The phenolic may be scratched up but it's it still solid phenolic and will not put any black marks on the stock..

The MLCS/HF should be flat,,no dome or counter sinks..you may have got a Fri.5:00 o'clock one..both companies don't have a good QC dept.they just pull them off the shelf and ship them..you may want to ask for a free replacement.. they both offer....

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Mike Gager said:


> bob my MLCS/harbor freight phenolic plate is scratched up something fierce. in fact i scratched it before even got to install it
> 
> also its not flat. its pretty much worthless in my opinion. i know they are supposed to be slightly higher in the center to offset the weight of the router but mine actually dips down. if i lay a straight edge across it there is a 1/16" gap at the center. when i run wood across it it also catches on the trim rings. to use my router table i have to lay a piece of MDF over the top of the plate to act as the router table top in order for it to be flat. if it werent for the ability to use guides i would go back to using no plate and just bolting the base to the underside of the table. i dont raise the plate to make bit changes anyways


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

In defense of the OP plate, they can be easily reworked to take on larger bits. I know, I did this to mine. I can now take on the larger 3 1/2" bit without any issues. 

I don't believe in lifts due to the fact that it's easier to pop the plate out to change bits and or change bit height.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike G, your plate should be flat. If it is not send it back for a replacement. There is only one mounting plate that is slightly convex, the Rousseau. This is a patented difference. There are many copies of this plate but all should be flat except the Trend which is under license from Rousseau. These clone plates are very popular since they cost less. If you want to use aftermarket jigs you are best off with a flat mounting plate. Any time your plate sags your cuts will vary in depth. How much sag is acceptable? For most woodworkers if the sag is less than 1/16" when measured length wise on the plate you can probably live with it. Flat is the best situation for most routing.

Which style center is best? If you go with the PC style you are limited in size as to the guide bushings and bits you can use. If you use the Oak Park style you have more alternatives available. Reducers are available for both styles to limit the opening size. Care should be taken to allow clearance for the bit and dust to exit. To me it makes sense to have the greater variety.

Most of the premium plates run between $40- $70. I have used several Rousseau plates, a couple from HF, one aluminum from Rockler and two versions from Oak Park.(7 & 11") They all work. I feel the Oak Park plates are the best over all value. They are not perfect, but they meet my needs better than others.


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## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

ok i checked the plate again and the plate itself is flat its the actual plastic inserts that are not. they bow down about 1/16" at the center which causes my cuts to be off and the lip of the inserts catches the work piece, especially shorter pieces that dont have the support

any ideas on how to fix?

also i swear i read that the mlcs/HF plates were convex but for the life of me i cant find where i read it so its possible im mistaken


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/show-n-tell/22997d1240172977-working-shop-100_0701.jpg

Router Forums - View Single Post - working in shop

pickup some flat replacements Mike

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Mike Gager said:


> ok i checked the plate again and the plate itself is flat its the actual plastic inserts that are not. they bow down about 1/16" at the center which causes my cuts to be off and the lip of the inserts catches the work piece, especially shorter pieces that dont have the support
> 
> any ideas on how to fix?
> 
> also i swear i read that the mlcs/HF plates were convex but for the life of me i cant find where i read it so its possible im mistaken


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi All,

Very interesting discussion. When I made my small router table I had been given a piece of phenolic material from a windowed area in my work place when renos were being done.

I've created two 'free' plates from this material (I think it was 5/8") and they are both flat, they are custom to my routers (I have 2) and they don't leave marks. Are they scratched? Sure they are but so what. It doesn't impede what I'm doing with the router and table so I'm happy and the best part is the price. I have enough material to make 2 more should I find the need to. If you know someone that can give you some of this for free or a reno project going on near you, you can custome make what you need.

With the help of the members of this forum I was able to make a table and insert plate without much real problem at all, for which I'm grateful.

Thanks,

Ed......


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Hamlin said:


> Hi,
> 
> In defense of the OP plate, they can be easily reworked to take on larger bits. I know, I did this to mine. I can now take on the larger 3 1/2" bit without any issues.
> 
> I don't believe in lifts due to the fact that it's easier to pop the plate out to change bits and or change bit height.


Hamlin, 

I agree that the OP plates can be reworked to take on larger bits; I am doing so myself.

My particular situation makes use of lift a great time saver and I have limited time per session when I am able to do woodworking; otherwise I would pop tghe plate and change the bit or bit height. I personally fidn something out of kilter when the router lift approaches or exceeds the price of the router itself.

So as to keep this thread on track, I simply do not see how one could use a router without a base plate whether it be table mounted (especially), hand held, ski mounted or in a router lathe.


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