# MuscleChuck vs Whiteside Eliminator...huh...?



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Since joining the forum I've seen, read, heard about Musclechuck...

So now there is a Whiteside version of the Musclechuck...?

Have I missed something along the way or has Whiteside's version always been there...?

Can one of you MuscleChuck'ers 'splain that Lucy...?

...then I'll go back to sleep...

Thanks...Nick


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Never mind...got my answer...should have researched before posting...

Thanks...Nick


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Well? You've got some 'splainin' to do, Lucy...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Well? You've got some 'splainin' to do, Lucy...


I subsequently found (Detroit) Mike's thread describing extensions (June 2013) and then reviews back to 2008 for Whiteside Eliminator.

I guess the forum discusses the Musclechuck so much I got the impression it was the only one on the market. When I ran across the Whiteside I was a bit surprised...

....then I wished I knew how to delete the post... 

Thanks...Nick


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

For the benefit of those who don't know, what is now known as the "Elininator" was invented by the same John DeRosa who designed the MUSCLECHUCK but sold the patent some time ago, I believe at the time of the patent it was simply called the DeRosa chuck. Unlike the MUSCLECHUCK which he designed and patented later, it relies on a cam gripping just one point of the bit's shank as opposed to an even grip all round giving I'm told a far greater grip than a conventional collet chuck, and both chucks only require an Allen key for bit change.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> For the benefit of those who don't know, what is now known as the "Elininator" was invented by the same John DeRosa who designed the MUSCLECHUCK but sold the patent some time ago, I believe at the time of the patent it was simply called the DeRosa chuck. Unlike the MUSCLECHUCK which he designed and patented later, it relies on a cam gripping just one point of the bit's shank as opposed to an even grip all round giving I'm told a far greater grip than a conventional collet chuck, and both chucks only require an Allen key for bit change.


Thanks, Harry...So, first came DeRosa chuck, then sold patent, then Eliminator, then Musclechuck...? And the eliminator does not grab the same way as the Musclechuck...?

Have I got it...?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Nickp said:


> Thanks, Harry...So, first came DeRosa chuck, then sold patent, then Eliminator, then Musclechuck...? And the eliminator does not grab the same way as the Musclechuck...?
> 
> Have I got it...?


Almost, the Eliminator on the original patent application was simply known as the DeRosa chuck which had a cam that gripped the bit shank in one spot, this was sold and became the Eliminator. Some time later, John DeRosa invented a chuck that gripped the shank allround it's circumference and this was and is known as the MUSCLECHUCK.
I recently came across the patent application whilst doing a Google search. It is a very comprehensive highly technical very big document.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

So, to carry this a little farther, do you think the Musclechuck is better than the Eliminator (Elininator??)?


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Almost, the Eliminator on the original patent application was simply known as the DeRosa chuck which had a cam that gripped the bit shank in one spot, this was sold and became the Eliminator. Some time later, John DeRosa invented a chuck that gripped the shank allround it's circumference and this was and is known as the MUSCLECHUCK.
> I recently came across the patent application whilst doing a Google search. It is a very comprehensive highly technical very big document.


I see...I read the patent and it is quite the description. It notes very well the differences between the original patent and the current Musclechuck. Thanks for pointing out the patent document...It is obvious from the graph that the Musclechuck has greater holding power for lesser tightening. 

Nick


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

As usual, Harry. Nice explanation.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

PhilBa said:


> So, to carry this a little farther, do you think the Musclechuck is better than the Eliminator (Elininator??)?


It is an indisputable fact that gripping all round the circumference is FAR Superior to gripping in just one spot and I can't help wondering if the mild steel shanks don't get nicked by the hardened cam.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

harrysin said:


> It is an indisputable fact that gripping all round the circumference is FAR Superior to gripping in just one spot and I can't help wondering if the mild steel shanks don't get nicked by the hardened cam.


My woodcraft salesman had the same critique about quick change chucks, He said they ding the shaft of the bits. Of course he was talking about a cam action collet


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well guys I watched a video on the Musclechuck and I have to say it's an interesting concept . 
I think I'll order a few , not sure if there all the same but I want one for my Porter Cable 690 and 75182 .
Debating if I should put one on my Festool 1400 plunge router as it has a pretty slick system now ? But I guess the Musclechuck would improve it further yet . Gotta find me one of those long Allen wrenches too


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nothing at LV or Amazon.ca , great 

But of course Amazon.com has some . Stupid Canada


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Nothing at LV or Amazon.ca , great
> 
> But of course Amazon.com has some . Stupid Canada


Yes. Dontcha just luv Free Trade, Rick?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Yes. Dontcha just luv Free Trade, Rick?


..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Yes. Dontcha just luv Free Trade, Rick?


Yes it's really been a great help lol .

Well looks like I'll go right to there site . Looks as though I need a type 1 for PC and a type 2 for Festool .

I'm not understanding if Harry was reffering to the extended version, as I'm a little concerned about vibration and was going to go with the regular one ?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Rick you should search Musclechuck on the forum and look for the post where the inventor was describing the installation process. He went over what to do if it is out of round and/or vibrates.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Rick you should search Musclechuck on the forum and look for the post where the inventor was describing the installation process. He went over what to do if it is out of round and/or vibrates.


Yes I read about that on there site . Not understanding how you can change the position though as I thought you tightened it 1/4 turn after it snugged down by hand . 
I'm missing something here


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm not sure either Rick as I haven't purchased one yet. Maybe one or more of the members who have one could elaborate. In any case, no one who has one has suggested that there is anything better.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have 2 one on each router table. The oneis ona PC 7518 and the other is on the bosch 1617. 
When I got them I pulled off the original collet and nut, and screwed the muscle chucks on ,put router bit in them and turned them on. Everything fine ,no slippage of bit or vibration.
Tried them with a 14 collet adaptor I already had and they work good.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> I have 2 one on each router table. The oneis ona PC 7518 and the other is on the bosch 1617.
> When I got them I pulled off the original collet and nut, and screwed the muscle chucks on ,put router bit in them and turned them on. Everything fine ,no slippage of bit or vibration.
> Tried them with a 14 collet adaptor I already had and they work good.
> 
> Herb


Herb did you buy the regular or extended version?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Typo,That is supposed to be 1/4" collet, not 14.

I don't know what an extended version is, I just went to the table and checked my router # and got the style # and ordered it. Then went to the table again and looked for the next one and ordered that one. 

The only other option was the Musclechuck alone, 1/4" collet + musclechuck, 1/4" collet plus muscle chuck + something else, spacers or something. 
and the wrench was separate I think the allen wrench is metric too. I had a question and email him and got a reply right away.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb here's an example . I suspect the extended version is just asking for trouble?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I must pull myself togther Rick, I wasn't aware that extended MUSCLECHUCKS were available.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> I must pull myself together Rick, I wasn't aware that extended MUSCLECHUCKSwere available.


Harry I was hoping you'd join in . Well as you mentioned before you already gain some length , so I'll stay with the short version . Just needed to verify which one you were reffering to . Thanks


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Harry I was hoping you'd join in . Well as you mentioned before you already gain some length , so I'll stay with the short version . Just needed to verify which one you were reffering to . Thanks


I second Harry. Might be a new product to compete with the Extender. Not sure what else it would be used for, the regular one already extends the chuck 1/2" or so.

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Would it cause problems by not retracting far enough?


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

*Balance*



RainMan1 said:


> Yes I read about that on there site . Not understanding how you can change the position though as I thought you tightened it 1/4 turn after it snugged down by hand .
> I'm missing something here


When you initially install the muscle Chuck by loosening the large nut and rotating the center until it's balanced once you tighten the nut you never have to touch it again


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> I must pull myself togther Rick, I wasn't aware that extended MUSCLECHUCKS were available.


Don't be to hard on yourself Harry , we all know you haven't been well .

Wonder if muslcechuck should be a Sticky?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I did go to the web site and looked for the extended model . It took some poking around,but when I went to the selection schedule. WALLA ! there it was just like Rick showed. No explanation just a comparison picture. 

Herb


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Would it cause problems by not retracting far enough?


The only problem it causes is not being able to lower the bit far enough. I have a Milwaukee router with above table adjustment and with the Musclechuck installed I have sometimes lowered the router enough that it drops off the adjustment teeth. It's just "that much" longer than the original collet.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

BrianS said:


> The only problem it causes is not being able to lower the bit far enough. I have a Milwaukee router with above table adjustment and with the Musclechuck installed I have sometimes lowered the router enough that it drops off the adjustment teeth. It's just "that much" longer than the original collet.


If a guy was cutting routing Bowls you have to use an extender on the router to get enough depth. That is one of the times it could be used.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I'm going to order the normal version for my PC 690 and 75182 . They have kits with 1/4" collet but the kits are pretty pricey


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick ,I agree, I have standard one on my 1617 and 7518, both in router tables.and they are just right. I have a 1/4' collet that I use for my handheld routers that works fine in the knuckle chuck.

Herb


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

If you order Musclechuck products be sure to use the forum discount link I set up. It's only 5% but I thought it was a nice gesture... just for people who order through our link.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mike said:


> If you order Musclechuck products be sure to use the forum discount link I set up. It's only 5% but I thought it was a nice gesture... just for people who order through our link.


Great point Mike , thanks 

And I thought the only perks here were knowing you awesome people and learning about routers


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Herb Stoops said:


> If a guy was cutting routing Bowls you have to use an extender on the router to get enough depth. That is one of the times it could be used.
> 
> Herb


Yes, if you needed the extra length, it would be beneficial, but, in my case at least, it's detrimental when I'm trying to put an edge on my work. It REALLY annoys me as I think the MuscleChuck is a wonderful addition to my routers.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Great point Mike , thanks
> 
> And I thought the only perks here were knowing you awesome people and learning about routers


Mike is one of the awesome people and set up the discount,it was automatically applied at check out if you use the forum link.

Thanks Mike.

Herb


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