# Need Ideas About Making Small Router Projects.



## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

I have been a member of this site for some time but it has only been to participate in the Pyrography board in the winter when it is too cold to heat my shop for other forms of woodworking .
I make hundreds of bowls with my Ringmaster lathe and sell them at craft sales. I have forever been router challenged and never had much luck with cheap routers I have owned. I am considering getting a good router with both fixed and plunge base and would like to learn how to use a router properly. 
Seeing as I do craft sales I would like some ideas of small saleable projects that use a router quite a bit in their production . I am not interested in larger forms of routing like furniture or cabinet doors or anything like that . I have neither room or a market for the larger items . 
I would really appreciate links to instructions on such projects and pictures of some .
In the meantime I am going to do a considerable amount of reading here because it looks like this site is a wealth of knowledge to learn the ins and outs of routing .


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## PawPawRay (Apr 5, 2009)

If you are into crafts, you can make thousands more items with a scroll saw than you can with a router.
You might check out some scroll saw forums to get ideas that you could use. Her are just a few that I visit at least weekly.
General Scroll Saw - Scroll Saw Woodworking & Crafts Message Board
Scroll Saw Village - A Community Of Scroll Saw Enthusiasts
http://stevedgood.com/community/index.php
Udie's Toymaker Forum


My web site https://www.etsy.com/shop/PawPawsWorkshop


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Router bowls and trays. With a good bowl bit, the right subbase and a template, you can crank out surprisingly nice bowls of arbitrary shapes pretty quickly. Do a google image search for router bowls. Lots of youtube videos as well.

I use a Freud dish carving bit Freud 19-578 1-1/8-Inch Diameter Top Bearing Dish Carving Router Bit with 1/2-Inch Shank - - Amazon.com in a PC 7518 router (3HP) for that. You might want to get a smaller dish carving bit for a less powerful router.

The templates are used to guide the bit and you can either buy them or make them yourself. 

On the subbase, you just need to be able to support the router on 2 sides so the bottom is nice and even. I make them out of 1/2" plywood. 

Have good dust/chip collection and eye protection because it really does blast a lot of wood debris everywhere.


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

PawPawRay said:


> If you are into crafts, you can make thousands more items with a scroll saw than you can with a router.
> You might check out some scroll saw forums to get ideas that you could use. Her are just a few that I visit at least weekly.
> General Scroll Saw - Scroll Saw Woodworking & Crafts Message Board
> Scroll Saw Village - A Community Of Scroll Saw Enthusiasts
> ...


Thanks but there is just no market for fretwork stuff around here anymore . I am a member of most all scroll saw forums including the ones you listed except the toy making one . . 
I have made hundreds of fretwork clocks back when there was interest in that sort of thing.
Here is a sampling of some of the stuff I have made including the Dome clock . Fretwork went the same as pen making when everyone got into it and started selling below their cost just for the fun of it . 
I have sold well over 300 Ringmaster bowls in the last three years but it too will decline as I reach a saturation point for my area .

PictureTrail - Gallery


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

PhilBa said:


> Router bowls and trays. With a good bowl bit, the right subbase and a template, you can crank out surprisingly nice bowls of arbitrary shapes pretty quickly. Do a google image search for router bowls. Lots of youtube videos as well.
> 
> I use a Freud dish carving bit Freud 19-578 1-1/8-Inch Diameter Top Bearing Dish Carving Router Bit with 1/2-Inch Shank - - Amazon.com in a PC 7518 router (3HP) for that. You might want to get a smaller dish carving bit for a less powerful router.
> 
> ...


Thanks Phil .
There have been several discussions on my own Woodworking Friends site about that as well as ideas about which router to buy . I have links to several places to get the templates and seen the videos but most of the ones on my site have said there is such a waste of wood with that system and was good when wood was much cheaper than it is nowadays . 
I have got by without hardly ever requiring a router for many years so perhaps it is just a pipe dream about wanting to branch out into yet another avenue of woodworking . That is why I am asking before investing in a good router .


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

williamyoung said:


> Thanks Phil .
> There have been several discussions on my own Woodworking Friends site about that as well as ideas about which router to buy . I have links to several places to get the templates and seen the videos but most of the ones on my site have said there is such a waste of wood with that system and was good when wood was much cheaper than it is nowadays .
> I have got by without hardly ever requiring a router for many years so perhaps it is just a pipe dream about wanting to branch out into yet another avenue of woodworking . That is why I am asking before investing in a good router .


You can build up your blanks in such a way that you don't waste wood, especially if you are using exotics. You will need a way to cut your material to glue quality. The router bowls I've seen for sale are pretty pricey - $75-100 is not unusual in my area. Waste or not, you can price accordingly. Is it really any different from turning bowls? Up to you.


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

PhilBa said:


> You can build up your blanks in such a way that you don't waste wood, especially if you are using exotics. You will need a way to cut your material to glue quality. The router bowls I've seen for sale are pretty pricey - $75-100 is not unusual in my area. Waste or not, you can price accordingly. Is it really any different from turning bowls? Up to you.


I understand what you say about turning bowls if they are done by hogging out the insides of a big block of wood. I quit that wasteful procedure years ago and make hundreds of bowls from one flat board with all kinds of both laminated and segmented designs that sell ten to one over the ones hollowed out of blocks of wood .


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

williamyoung said:


> I understand what you say about turning bowls if they are done by hogging out the insides of a big block of wood. I quit that wasteful procedure years ago and make hundreds of bowls from one flat board with all kinds of both laminated and segmented designs that sell ten to one over the ones hollowed out of blocks of wood .


Actually, what I was saying is you could use a similar technique for router bowls.


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

PhilBa said:


> Actually, what I was saying is you could use a similar technique for router bowls.


I guess I am having a problem understanding how a router could be used for bowl making apart from what I have seen about gluing stacks of boards or using very thick solid wood and routing the insides out using a template .. I have seen those videos . Could you please provide some pictures and information about what you are referring to or links to videos that might be different than that . .
Here is a bowl from a board that I just posted on my own site yesterday . It is made from a sixteen segment flat board as shown . 

I also posted pictures of three more different bowls there yesterday in a separate thread that I finished off at the same time .


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

start here


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

PhilBa said:


> start here


Seen every one of those posted previously on my WWF site . Looks like a lot of wood waste both to me and to members of my site. .
Perhaps I should give up on thinking about getting into routing as an alternative and as a change from what I am doing if that is all that can be made with a router as far as small craft sale items are concerned.
I know a router is wonderful for furniture and cabinetry but I am just not into that sort of thing .
Thanks anyway . Just thought I might get some practical ideas here. 
Still open to more ideas to look at though .


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Bill, you do beautiful work. A true craftsman. Your bowls look great. Being round they can be turned on a lathe. However, if you're interested in other shapes, square, oblong, oval, hexagonal, whatever, a router is the way to go. For something like an oblong serving tray you can glue up a blank in the rough shape of the piece and then route to final form using a template with a bit similar to then one Phil mentioned. As you've done with your other bowls you can use any color and size of wood including cut offs from your other work. The closer your rough shape the less wood wasted. Just a thought. 

If you want to get into toys, routers are a great help whether using templates or just rounding over edges. I included a few examples of things I made for my grandkids. I rough cut the shapes with a band saw then used templates to route to final size. Although all of this could have been done without a router I think I'd still be sanding to shape without it. It's one of my favorite tools. Then again, I don't have a lathe. Hope this helps.


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

Barry747 said:


> Bill, you do beautiful work. A true craftsman. Your bowls look great. Being round they can be turned on a lathe. However, if you're interested in other shapes, square, oblong, oval, hexagonal, whatever, a router is the way to go. For something like an oblong serving tray you can glue up a blank in the rough shape of the piece and then route to final form using a template with a bit similar to then one Phil mentioned. As you've done with your other bowls you can use any color and size of wood including cut offs from your other work. The closer your rough shape the less wood wasted. Just a thought.
> 
> If you want to get into toys, routers are a great help whether using templates or just rounding over edges. I included a few examples of things I made for my grandkids. I rough cut the shapes with a band saw then used templates to route to final size. Although all of this could have been done without a router I think I'd still be sanding to shape without it. It's one of my favorite tools. Then again, I don't have a lathe. Hope this helps.


Oh Yeah , this is the type of responses I have been watching for. 
Although basic toys never seem to sell in my area in this electronics age they make nice giveaways but beautiful hand crafted ones like the sports car you showed probably would. You did a great job on that one . Do you buy the wheels or make them .

I have a lot to consider and learn before jumping into this because I have never made a template before and have never used a bushing on a router but I sure am willing to learn .


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

In your gallery I don't see any boxes other than BS boxes. I make a lot of boxes as presents and you can use a router to make the joints and doll them up with all sorts of profile and mouldings. I use a router to make all my hinges and hasp latches out of the same material as the box or different contrasting materials, save buying those expensive brass ones.

Here are some I did, the treasure chest had old gate hardware spray painted dark bronze. There are a couple of weather stations and clocks included (Klockit) movements. Just some ideas, hope it gets the wheels turning. there are a lot of woodworking books and DVD's out on boxes. 
Herb


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

Herb Stoops said:


> In your gallery I don't see any boxes other than BS boxes. I make a lot of boxes as presents and you can use a router to make the joints and doll them up with all sorts of profile and mouldings. I use a router to make all my hinges and hasp latches out of the same material as the box or different contrasting materials, save buying those expensive brass ones.
> 
> Here are some I did, the treasure chest had old gate hardware spray painted dark bronze. There are a couple of weather stations and clocks included (Klockit) movements. Just some ideas, hope it gets the wheels turning. there are a lot of woodworking books and DVD's out on boxes.
> Herb


OH yes , some great ideas there Herb.
Thanks a bunch .


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Bill, I apologize in advance for this long email. Wheels - the gruesome details: For the car I made them. I made everything for the car from 4/4 lumber except for the axels and the axel covers. I bought ¼” dowels and cut them to length. I mounted the wheels on the axel and set it back about ¼’” from the face of the wheel rim. I rounded over the end of ¼” walnut dowel using sandpaper with the dowel mounted in my drill press. I cut off 3/8” and used it plug the hole over the axel in the wheel rim. For the wheel itself, I used a hole saw to cut out the wheel blank. Rounded over the edges of the wheel using the jig I created show in the pictures. I then cut the center out with a forstner bit. If I had a lathe, like someone I know about, I’d have made them faster and easier using the lathe. The rims were a lot of work. I cut them out with a hole saw then used a template I created to drill 10 holes in each rim. I then used a scroll saw to connect pairs of holes to create the slotted look that I was after. There are a number of companies that sell wheels. Some are quite complicated like spoke wheels. The only reason I went to all this trouble was that they are for my 8 grandkids. I hope they pass them down to their kids when the time comes. Otherwise I’d have bought the wheels. I did buy them for the duck pull toy.

Templates help make the job easier and less error prone. If you’re making multiple items, templates make sure that each item is identical and making a template is no more difficult than making the project piece itself. The one thing to pay attention to with a template is you do want to make it as perfect as possible since the slightest imperfection in the template will be transferred to your project pieces by the router. I like ¼” MDF but you can use plywood, Masonite, Lucite, etc. The trim bits I normally use are shown in the picture. The one on the right has different size top bearings for us in rabbiting. I hope this helps.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Awesome looking projects guys . Barry I can't get over the race car , great job!


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

Barry.
Thanks again.

Never need to apologize for a long response . I am often guilty of the same thing . Sometimes it takes many words to explain something and the pictures are an excellent bonus. I love it when people post explanations and pictures from their actual experience .

The last picture shows some long bits like I have never seen and with double bearings ? ? I am curious as to how much those bits alone cost without all the other bits that are required for different types of routing . 
Do you guys have a preference to a supplier of quality bits at a reasonable price ? I know quality is usually determined by price but that is not always the case. I deal with amazon.com as a prime member with two day free shipping for many things but I have not even checked there to see what they have in any quality of router bits .


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Bill, my collection of trim and pattern bits were built up over time. I started with the one in the middle which is an MLCS Katana bit Katana® Rabbeting Router Bit Kits, Round Nose / Core Box Router Bits, Flush Trim Router Bits
Ultimately, I determined that I like Whiteside router bits the best and, whenever possible, with a 1/2" shank. They are made in the US and are better than most of the imported bits. They also tend to be a bit (pun intended) more expensive but these are my "go to" bits and pay off in the long run. For bits that I use less often I may buy less expensive, but not cheap, bits. Use them for a while and you'll understand.

The reason for the top and bottom mounted bearing is to eliminate, or limit, grain tear out when working with a template. Consider this, you are going to route a curve in a piece of straight grained wood. The curve will expose end grain on each end of the curve. When the bit cuts "down" into the grain you will get a smooth cut. When it come up the other side and cuts "up" into the grain you may well get tear out. This is how I avoid that. I attach the template to the work piece with double sided tape. Let's say I start with the template on top, with the top bearing riding along the edge of the template and cut into the "down" side of the grain. Until I get half way through the curve it's a nice smooth cut. However, once I'm past the center point i'll be cutting "up" into the grain. So, I flip the piece over, so the template is on the bottom, against the table, and lower the bit so the bottom bearing now rides against the template. Now I'm, once again, cutting "down" on the grain. I hope this is clear. If not, I'll look up some pictures and post them. I frequently use this technique for curved pieces. I did this for the cars and the duck step stools.


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## williamyoung (Nov 28, 2009)

Barry747 said:


> Bill, my collection of trim and pattern bits were built up over time. I started with the one in the middle which is an MLCS Katana bit Katana® Rabbeting Router Bit Kits, Round Nose / Core Box Router Bits, Flush Trim Router Bits
> Ultimately, I determined that I like Whiteside router bits the best and, whenever possible, with a 1/2" shank. They are made in the US and are better than most of the imported bits. They also tend to be a bit (pun intended) more expensive but these are my "go to" bits and pay off in the long run. For bits that I use less often I may buy less expensive, but not cheap, bits. Use them for a while and you'll understand.
> 
> The reason for the top and bottom mounted bearing is to eliminate, or limit, grain tear out when working with a template. Consider this, you are going to route a curve in a piece of straight grained wood. The curve will expose end grain on each end of the curve. When the bit cuts "down" into the grain you will get a smooth cut. When it come up the other side and cuts "up" into the grain you may well get tear out. This is how I avoid that. I attach the template to the work piece with double sided tape. Let's say I start with the template on top, with the top bearing riding along the edge of the template and cut into the "down" side of the grain. Until I get half way through the curve it's a nice smooth cut. However, once I'm past the center point i'll be cutting "up" into the grain. So, I flip the piece over, so the template is on the bottom, against the table, and lower the bit so the bottom bearing now rides against the template. Now I'm, once again, cutting "down" on the grain. I hope this is clear. If not, I'll look up some pictures and post them. I frequently use this technique for curved pieces. I did this for the cars and the duck step stools.


Thanks for that great advice . I will keep this for future reference .


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## JudgeMike (Feb 27, 2012)

Barry,

That is the best "Yellow Duck" step stool I've ever seen! Thanks for posting those photos. My granddaughter is going to love one of those! mike


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