# Need help with wood planes!?



## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

I seldom use a plane, mainly because I find they are a pain in.... But I have had occasion recently to see where one would help me. But, I am not a mechanical engineer, don't know calculus, am not a machinist with a full metal working shop and have short attention span. Therefore my eyes glaze over when I read the page long instructions for "rehabilitating an old plane" and I nod off.
So. Which old planes are worth the effort? I only need a couple jack plane type tools for quick removal of material. I found an old 5 1/2 Stanley that I have torn apart and am trying to clean but now I gotta remember how to put it back together!!
Can you guys suggest THREE planes I should have. I will not spend $150 for a new Stanley and the $300 for a Lie Nielson gives me palpitations!!:blink:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Warren

At one time I did collect old planes ,I had about 200 or so, most sit in a display case most of the time , you don't need one if you don't use them all the time and you are right they are a pain in the back and the legs....I will suggest you just pickup a good little block plane it will do most of the jobs for you.

Most buy one or two and than say OK now what and they go back in the box for many years or hang on the shop wall for a very long time.. 

It made me so mad when someone wanted to sell me a nice old plane and they reworked it and made a very nice door stop..

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sourdough said:


> I seldom use a plane, mainly because I find they are a pain in.... But I have had occasion recently to see where one would help me. But, I am not a mechanical engineer, don't know calculus, am not a machinist with a full metal working shop and have short attention span. Therefore my eyes glaze over when I read the page long instructions for "rehabilitating an old plane" and I nod off.
> So. Which old planes are worth the effort? I only need a couple jack plane type tools for quick removal of material. I found an old 5 1/2 Stanley that I have torn apart and am trying to clean but now I gotta remember how to put it back together!!
> Can you guys suggest THREE planes I should have. I will not spend $150 for a new Stanley and the $300 for a Lie Nielson gives me palpitations!!:blink:


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

3 planes are good, but 4 are better.

#7, #5 (or a 5 1/2), #4 and a good low angle block plane would be your most popular choices and you can do about anything with this combination.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

sourdough said:


> I seldom use a plane, mainly because I find they are a pain in.... But I have had occasion recently to see where one would help me. But, I am not a mechanical engineer, don't know calculus, am not a machinist with a full metal working shop and have short attention span. Therefore my eyes glaze over when I read the page long instructions for "rehabilitating an old plane" and I nod off.
> So. Which old planes are worth the effort? I only need a couple jack plane type tools for quick removal of material. I found an old 5 1/2 Stanley that I have torn apart and am trying to clean but now I gotta remember how to put it back together!!
> Can you guys suggest THREE planes I should have. I will not spend $150 for a new Stanley and the $300 for a Lie Nielson gives me palpitations!!:blink:



Hey Warren...

You don't have to be a mechanical engineer, you don't need to know calculus and you dont have to be a machinist. The attention span thing,,,well, we'll just have to see *L*..

Acquiring a plane: lots of roads you could take here, but you've pretty much made it clear the route you want to take. You dont' have to spend a fortune. You don't have to spend a hundred bucks....what you do have to do is pay attention to what you are buying. Alot of good planes can be had for 50 bucks or less. Older planes along the lines of Stanley, Miller Falls, Fulton and even craftsman (mfg. for sears by Miller Falls back in the day) are all great planes to name a few. If your lucky enough to come across a Stanley "Bedrock" for under a hundred thats is great shape, scarf it up!!!!
Which plane to get: If your looking for 3, I'd say a 5 or 6 (or anything in between), a 3 or 4 for finish work and a GOOD block plane for trim and touch up. 

I love my planes! I enjoy tweaking em, setting em up, and putting them to work. Planes arn't for everyone obviously...and can require a good bit of effort at times. Other times a well tuned plane can glide over curly maple like it was on skates 

In my opinion, without a SHARP iron, you might as well use sandpaper. With a sharp iron, you wont' need to use sandpaper...when you get to that point.. let us know..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bob N said:


> 3 planes are good, but 4 are better.
> 
> #7, #5 (or a 5 1/2), #4 and a good low angle block plane would be your most popular choices and you can do about anything with this combination.


Sweet stable you got there Bob N.!! *S*
I'm getting there, slow but sure...


How do you like that shoulder plane? Do you find you use it a good bit?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

sourdough said:


> I seldom use a plane, mainly because I find they are a pain in.... But I have had occasion recently to see where one would help me. But, I am not a mechanical engineer, don't know calculus, am not a machinist with a full metal working shop and have short attention span. Therefore my eyes glaze over when I read the page long instructions for "rehabilitating an old plane" and I nod off.
> So. Which old planes are worth the effort? I only need a couple jack plane type tools for quick removal of material. I found an old 5 1/2 Stanley that I have torn apart and am trying to clean but now I gotta remember how to put it back together!!
> Can you guys suggest THREE planes I should have. I will not spend $150 for a new Stanley and the $300 for a Lie Nielson gives me palpitations!!:blink:



No matter what other planes you find, make sure you get a good low angle block plane.

You will find you will use this the most.


I have a 4, 4 1/2, 5. and 6 as well as a block plane and I still use the block plane the most.:yes2: :yes2: :yes2:


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob N said:


> 3 planes are good, but 4 are better.
> 
> #7, #5 (or a 5 1/2), #4 and a good low angle block plane would be your most popular choices and you can do about anything with this combination.


Scrowth. Those planes are worth more than my car, and I bet that merely scratches the surface of the whole collection. You don't have those planes without a goodly "back up" supply. '-) Which ones are you missing?


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Warren I don't know where you are at but Busy Bee Tools in Canada sells Groz planes and when you get them on sale they are a good deal. They require a little work - the soles aren't true flat and the blades need serious sharpening. I put the bit of effort into mine and now have a decent set of wood planes, good enough for a wood enthusiast but definitely NOT comparable to Veritas or Lie Nielson. They do the job and that's what matters.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

I have 2 old planes that I have no idea about where I got them. They may have belonged to my great grandfather. I've been wanting to see if I could get them into some kind of decent shape but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort.

What's the first thing I should do to see if they're worth fixing up?


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Now I'm rollin'!*

Okay folks-now I'm rollin! Thanks to you I know what to look for. I will try to find the most complete planes I can that have good irons....I can always clean up the other parts. I found a 5 1/2 Stanly that is in pieces on one bench. I am trying to understand how it goes together and what wheels and levers to what!!?? I may have some serious questions to ask as I try to reassemble it.
Thanks again folks.
Canuck Gal...I have heard that GROZ stuff is pretty decent. My primary problem is going to be the "tuning" and repair work.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Here's a blogger with a great picture of the anatomy of a hand plane. She also has a couple of good links on restoring hand planes.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

> Busy Bee Tools in Canada sells Groz planes and when you get them on sale they are a good deal.


Agreed. With reservations.

I have the hand plane combo. I put *a lot* of work into it and now it's just fine. OTOH I took the FP6 back as I could not make it work, no way, no how. I think there is a design fault there.

I am afraid that to get a working plane you must either spend money or time.* There are no shortcuts.* There are many good web sites (many with videos) dealing with restoring and tuning up planes. Google is your friend.

BTW I thought I could get away with an electric hand planer for some of the jobs. Not so. I was glad to have the two hand planes in the end.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

RJM.. take a couple of pics and lets see whatcha got on your hands....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

here's a decent YouTube video describing the "parts" of a standard hand plane. 

the narrator is kinda flat, but all parts are well described and identified. 

ALOT of how to info on youtube as well, some much better than others, but worth the time..

YouTube - How to Use a Jack Plane : Identifying Parts of a Jack Plane

Ron Hock and Christopher Schwartz both have series on hand planes and sharpening in youtube, Lie Nielsen has some of the best...


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Here are some of My planes These were My Fathers
























[/ATTACH] Notice the price on the box


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

This is a few others This is the 45. All the cutters are there. I didn't get the last picture turned. The coating on the plane is almost gone, notice the origional screw driver.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Excellent assortment you got there Howard! That #3 looks sweet!!! Nice jack.. and a filletster then is that a scrapper hanging on the wall?...

There just has to be something special about using tools that your father, grandfather etc. have used before you. Especially hand planes! 

Thanks for sharing *S*

b.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

There are a few spoke shaves, I think the one You are talking about is the one with internal and external blade in one piece. It's very seldom used now, but when using them I almost always see My Father, and Grandfather using them also. Very meaningful!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

dutchman 46 said:


> There are a few spoke shaves, I think the one You are talking about is the one with internal and external blade in one piece. It's very seldom used now, but when using them I almost always see My Father, and Grandfather using them also. Very meaningful!


very cool!!! 

That, to me, is the true meaning behind woodworking!!


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Buried in good stuff up to my totes!!*

Oh what fun!! I am learning more each day thanks to you folks. I did not really NEED another distraction in my life but here it is.......wood planes. No....I'm not going to go nuts about them, but they are interesting. I am actively shopping for a few models you folks suggested. I found couple around here and have them all apart on one bench. They are all cleaned up but I can't get them back together. I think at LEAST one of them is missing something. And I have aplane marked 5 1/2 that LOOKS just like a Stanley but there are no other marks on it except the number 2.
Lots of videos to watch and can you believe I learned there is a BOOK on how to sharpen an iron!!! C'mon now......a BOOK on how to sharpen a plane??
I only want to get a couple basic tools that will help me from time to time....I am NOT in the mood to start a collection. Bamboo flyrods, double guns, classic cars..were enough for me. Now I only collect empties!! Hard dee har!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

sourdough said:


> Oh what fun!! I am learning more each day thanks to you folks. I did not really NEED another distraction in my life but here it is.......wood planes. No....I'm not going to go nuts about them, but they are interesting. I am actively shopping for a few models you folks suggested. I found couple around here and have them all apart on one bench. They are all cleaned up but I can't get them back together. I think at LEAST one of them is missing something. And I have aplane marked 5 1/2 that LOOKS just like a Stanley but there are no other marks on it except the number 2.
> Lots of videos to watch and can you believe I learned there is a BOOK on how to sharpen an iron!!! C'mon now......a BOOK on how to sharpen a plane??
> I only want to get a couple basic tools that will help me from time to time....I am NOT in the mood to start a collection. Bamboo flyrods, double guns, classic cars..were enough for me. Now I only collect empties!! Hard dee har!


Sharpening is a whole other story *LOL*
Arkansas stones, scary sharp, wet stones, diamond plates, diamond paste, worksharp, Tormek, Jet, stropping, micro bevels, primary bevels, mirror finishes,,,

lions, tigers and bears....OHHH MYYYYYYY


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

An update on my new found interest in planes. Under the dirt I discovered I have a 5 1/2 Rev-O-Noc plane. I spent three hours cleaning it and trying to get it to work. Finally concluded lateral adjusting lever does NOTHING and I cannot get the blade adjusting nut to properly locate the blade. I junked it. Then started on a small Stanley block plane. There is some sort of screw that comes down on top of the iron, way at the rear. It will NOT track straight up and down and I think a piece is missing. Junked it. Tore apart another little Stanley and I think I have it back together but after my sharpening efforts it will not cut any better than a pocket knife.
Conclusion: buy Lie-Nielson or Veritas planes and get on with my life!! Ha!!!
I gotta go do some ruminatin' now. Stay tuned.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

sourdough said:


> Conclusion: buy Lie-Nielson or Veritas planes and get on with my life!! Ha!!!
> I gotta go do some ruminatin' now. Stay tuned.



:yes4::yes4::yes4::sold:


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I wish You well with the new plane! When it is time to sharpen, You'll have the angle to go by, or let a pro sharpen.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

sourdough said:


> An update on my new found interest in planes. Under the dirt I discovered I have a 5 1/2 Rev-O-Noc plane. I spent three hours cleaning it and trying to get it to work. Finally concluded lateral adjusting lever does NOTHING and I cannot get the blade adjusting nut to properly locate the blade. I junked it. Then started on a small Stanley block plane. There is some sort of screw that comes down on top of the iron, way at the rear. It will NOT track straight up and down and I think a piece is missing. Junked it. Tore apart another little Stanley and I think I have it back together but after my sharpening efforts it will not cut any better than a pocket knife.
> Conclusion: buy Lie-Nielson or Veritas planes and get on with my life!! Ha!!!
> I gotta go do some ruminatin' now. Stay tuned.


Warren...

don't be discouraged! the lil block plane may be a saver once you get an edge on that iron. How did you attempt to sharpen? Keep in mind, idealy, you'd be looking at taking "shavings" in the range of <.001-.004 with a block plane. 
Btw.. do a google on Rev-O-Noc. Seems to be a house brand for a company out of chicago years back. Can't say for certain who made it for them.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bob N said:


> :yes4::yes4::yes4::sold:



*L*.. easy for you to say!!!!

I'm real curious as to when LV will introduce their new line of planes...even more curious as to what kinda price tag they are going to attach......:no:


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

I did a search on the Rev-O-Noc. As it turned out the one I had (and I don't know where or when I acquired it) was simply worn out-the lateral adjusting lever no longer made any contact with frog/plane. Junked it.
I ordered a little Stanley plane today- a new one for $40. I am searching for a #3 Stanley but I have already learned that if they are not in MINT condition or close to it I am not interested. My challenge now is to learn how to sharpen them. But I am NOT going to buy a BOOK on how to sharpen planes. I WILL read and take advice and if I have to I WILL send them down the road someplace so a person who actually KNOWS what they are doing can sharpen them. I might break down and buy some sort of sharpening "guide" or template.
I have learned they are very interesting devices and I can only imagine what it must be like to use one of the top of the line tools.
Okay, gotta go post my new tool review on Makita drill. Thanks folks.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

TwoSkies57 said:


> *L*.. easy for you to say!!!!
> 
> I'm real curious as to when LV will introduce their new line of planes...even more curious as to what kinda price tag they are going to attach......:no:


Hi Bill,

Guess I've been out of touch lately... I was not aware of a new LV line of planes coming out. Where can I find out more on this?


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

sourdough said:


> I did a search on the Rev-O-Noc. As it turned out the one I had (and I don't know where or when I acquired it) was simply worn out-the lateral adjusting lever no longer made any contact with frog/plane. Junked it.
> I ordered a little Stanley plane today- a new one for $40. I am searching for a #3 Stanley but I have already learned that if they are not in MINT condition or close to it I am not interested. My challenge now is to learn how to sharpen them. But I am NOT going to buy a BOOK on how to sharpen planes. I WILL read and take advice and if I have to I WILL send them down the road someplace so a person who actually KNOWS what they are doing can sharpen them. I might break down and buy some sort of sharpening "guide" or template.
> I have learned they are very interesting devices and I can only imagine what it must be like to use one of the top of the line tools.
> Okay, gotta go post my new tool review on Makita drill. Thanks folks.


Hi Warren,

Best $12 you'll ever spend on sharpening

Sharpening Woodworking Tools Using Norton Oilstones at Tools for Working Wood


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Bob N said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Guess I've been out of touch lately... I was not aware of a new LV line of planes coming out. Where can I find out more on this?


Spill it, Bill... Curious minds want to know.. Don't want the curiousity to kill, like it did the cat!!


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Bob N said:


> Hi Warren,
> 
> Best $12 you'll ever spend on sharpening
> 
> Sharpening Woodworking Tools Using Norton Oilstones at Tools for Working Wood


I'll add to that by saying that the Scary Sharp system is based on sand paper and tools get so sharp it is indeed scary. Just search "scary sharp." LV sells the 3M papers for it as well.

LV also sells the guides for setting angles on irons and chisels.


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*Sharpen CD*



Bob N said:


> Hi Warren,
> 
> Best $12 you'll ever spend on sharpening
> 
> Sharpening Woodworking Tools Using Norton Oilstones at Tools for Working Wood


Okay Bob, ordered one and it is on the way. BUT.....I ain't payin' no $80 for an Arkansas sharpening stone!!! ha!!:dance3:


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## sourdough (Jan 31, 2010)

*What is LV??*



allthunbs said:


> I'll add to that by saying that the Scary Sharp system is based on sand paper and tools get so sharp it is indeed scary. Just search "scary sharp." LV sells the 3M papers for it as well.
> 
> LV also sells the guides for setting angles on irons and chisels.


Okay okay you guys. You're driving me nutz......what is LV?:dance3:


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

sourdough said:


> Okay okay you guys. You're driving me nutz......what is LV?:dance3:


Sorry Sourdough, LV = LeeValley Tools, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Ships worldwide. Their manufacturing wing makes "Veritas" tools which is also sold wholesale worldwide. You may find "Veritas" in your local high-end tool stockist. They don't just make planes, they make works of art and call them planes. Some of them are too beautiful to use.

leevalley.com


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bob N./Jim...

Veritas is sitting on a new line up of premium hand planes. The first release was the block planes DX60/NX60 series pictured below. On their websites description they say these are the first in their series of a new line of premium planes. I guess that now these have been in circulation for a while, anticipation is growing considerably among those who are big Lee Valley/Veritas fans. Myself included. Recently the question was brought up as to "WHEN" will they be released or available. Rob Lee himself got involved and pretty much said it might be a little while yet. Due to the economy the premium plane market has been pretty hard hit. (my opinion) Looks and performance are almost guaranteed if the NX60 is any indication. Dang, that is one beautiful block plane. *S* I really just hope price points don't follow suite. IMO, i'm just guessing that they will still be less than the Lie Nielsens but probably not by much...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Bill:



TwoSkies57 said:


> Looks and performance are almost guaranteed if the NX60 is any indication. Dang, that is one beautiful block plane. *S* I really just hope price points don't follow suite. IMO, i'm just guessing that they will still be less than the Lie Nielsens but probably not by much...


I compared the Lie Nielsens to the Veritas block planes and the Lie Nielsens have a nice fit and finish but they're a traditional plane and the design probably hasn't changed much in several hundred years. The Veritas block planes are the first "styled" planes I've ever seen. I wouldn't think that LeeValley would take the time and trouble to create such works of art not to continue it with the rest of the line.

I would expect the price point to be "reasonable" for that calibre of workmanship. All of that said, I certainly couldn't find the money in my budget for such a collection. My stuff has to produce economically. I would have a hard time justifying a hand plane when I've got a planer and jointer. I get close with them and finish off with cabinet scrapers.


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