# What type of bit can make this profile?



## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

I need help finding the correct name bit to make this door style:


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

old55 said:


> Welcome to the forum.


Thank you


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

jw2170 said:


> Welcome to the forum.


Thank you!


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi and welcome.

1. Could you add one or more photos with the doors/drawers slightly open? It is difficult to make out which is door and which is frame. Your tape measure obscures some detail on the drawers.
2. Could you indicate on the photo what exactly you want to reproduce?
3. If possible, could you measure the depth of the groove? It looks a bit deep for the usual cock-beading.
4. Are you planning to make the doors with Cope-and stick, or some other method to hold the panel?


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> Hi and welcome.
> 
> 1. Could you add one or more photos with the doors/drawers slightly open? It is difficult to make out which is door and which is frame. Your tape measure obscures some detail on the drawers.
> 2. Could you indicate on the photo what exactly you want to reproduce?
> ...


Thank you for the quick reply!

The groove is 1/8” deep. It’s a repair job, the cabinet doors are no longer made from Lowe’s. It’s a typical shaker frame with this convex edge profile.
Here’s more pictures of a different frame.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)




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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Those commercial doors were not made on a router. 

Here is a sheet of different styles of bits and the profiles they make. But if you're making doors, you need to get a match set of door making bits. Some of these bits will work for the rails and stiles, but door panels are easier to do with a bit set for doors. Every maker has them. I use Sommerfeld Tools matching bit sets. https://www.fabricdirect.com/shop/c...le-46-unbleached-muslin-fabric-100-yard-roll/ You might also want to watch Marc Sommerfeld's videos on youtube on making panel doors. Really good technique, clear and detailed.










Here is a very simple Shaker style set. Matched sets are best because once you set the first bit, the other or rest are exactly the same shaft length, so you don't have to reset by trial and error. It works by placing a half inch rubber grommet into the bottom of the collet so the shank bottoms out on that grommet. Grommet, not o-ring.

Where it gets more complicated is if you want a raised panel inside the door frame. That requires an additional bit or two, depending on the profile. 

The doors you are showing, have been made from glued up strips of solid wood. That gives you the thickness you need to carry the profile from the frame out onto the panel.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

As Tom said.
If you have a close look, the groove on either side of the convex moulding is asymmetric. There are bits (see below - not shown in Tom’s sheet) which will produce a groove, but with symmetrical roundovers on either side of the groove. You have a round over on one side and a crisp edge on the other - had to be done by gluing pieces together, or with a highly customized bit on a shaper. Also, the raised panel edging is a continuation of one crisp edge, does not appear to have been made with both bits of the rail-and-style bits Tom shows (the corners are mitred, not cope-and-stick).
Looks like at best, you will be able to approximate the moulding with a router, not duplicate it. 
At a pinch, you could try a diy custom scratch stock for the grooves. They are deeper than what I have managed - but then I am no expert at scratchstocks.
















Interesting how the grain pattern at the mitre corner in your last photo makes the inner part of the moulding look raised.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Apologies, I am being stupid, let me offer a simple alternative before the more experienced members call me out.
Once I convinced myself that the inner part of the moulding is flat, not raised, the answer presented itself.

You will have to do the bullnose before you mitre the pieces. Available in different radii, there should be one to match yours.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> As Tom said.
> If you have a close look, the groove on either side of the convex moulding is asymmetric. There are bits (see below - not shown in Tom’s sheet) which will produce a groove, but with symmetrical roundovers on either side of the groove. You have a round over on one side and a crisp edge on the other - had to be done by gluing pieces together, or with a highly customized bit on a shaper. Also, the raised panel edging is a continuation of one crisp edge, does not appear to have been made with both bits of the rail-and-style bits Tom shows (the corners are mitred, not cope-and-stick).
> Looks like at best, you will be able to approximate the moulding with a router, not duplicate it.
> At a pinch, you could try a diy custom scratch stock for the grooves. They are deeper than what I have managed - but then I am no expert at scratchstocks.
> ...





Biagio said:


> Apologies, I am being stupid, let me offer a simple alternative before the more experienced members call me out.
> Once I convinced myself that the inner part of the moulding is flat, not raised, the answer presented itself.
> 
> You will have to do the bullnose before you mitre the pieces. Available in different radii, there should be one to match yours.
> ...


It looks like the bullnose or fingernail bit is closer to the shape I need. What’s the difference between those two bits? Sorry, to change the discussion; I’m not familiar with them.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

When comparing the bullnose and fingernail bits to my cabinet shape; the convex shape of the half round is closer to the fingernail bit. The bullnose looks more “proud” once it’s cut into the material from the videos I’ve been watching. I have not seen videos on the fingernail bits; any suggestions are appreciated.

I would definitely shape the edge of the material first before routing the shaker style styles and rails.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

The bullnose bit will cut both grooves at the same time as shape the bullnose.. the fingernail bit will not cut crisp grooves, and not as deep. The grooves will be too wide to look good. 
Go to Leevalley.com and look up bullnose bit amongst router bits. You will not be using it in the usual way, on the edge of a board, as shown in Tom’s sheet. You will be using it in a router table, protruding up from the table. I will attempt a sketch.
Best to get a 1/2” shaft bit.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hey Jafo9, sorry about the delay. It is easier to show you than to make a sketch.
My bullnose bit was from Rockler, I think. You will notice that the grooves are much wider than your originals. It may not matter if you do a batch of doors that are all the same, but one door in a set will stand out some. Other brands may be closer to what you want, otherwise you may be able to get a sharpening service to grind top and bottom edges down.
The groove to bullnose ratio may also vary by size of bit. I only have one size, cannot remember the radius.
Thinking about it, you will probably only get what you want in 1/4” shank (like mine), which means multiple passes in order not to stress the bit. I did the sample (soft yellow pine) in two passes, you may need more. I did not quite get the height of the first groove right, yours looks like 7 mm, but you get the idea.

Set the fence flush with the maximum curvature of the bit, mark the front or back of the fence on your table, then move the fence further forward and sneak up to the mark on successive passes.

Sorry about the mess in the photo showing the profile of the resultant bullnose - the best light (gathering storm) was on my wife’s pottery and potting table.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I am having a little trouble responding to this because you've posted two completely different types of doors. And the solution for the first (white) is different that the types in the second set of sample doors.

The second set of door pictures are fairly common profiles and you might be able to find a match by looking through some catalogs, either online or in print catalogs. I don't think a bull nose will do what you want.

CMT, Sommerfeld, and a bunch of other companies you'll find online can send you catalogs of bits. There are thousands of different bits, and you might after searching, find one that matches.

However, bit sets are not cheap, and if you can't find a match, you might consider replacing all the doors with commercial or shop made doors. And you might also consider going to a cabinet shop in your area with the door you want to match. and seeing what they can do for you.

But I don't think it's going to be easy reproducing that profile with a router bit.

One last possibility to consider is to have someone, or yourself, make a hand plane iron to the profile, and hand plane enough stock to make a replacement door.

Short of good luck, and a thorough search, or even reproducing the profile to scale and sending copies to all the bit makers, I don't think there is an easy fix. Even if you matched the profile, you still have to match the finish, easier to say than do.

If I had that dilemma, knowing my wife would hound me constantly about the odd door, I'd replace the doors, all of them and be done with it. If you take that route, your bit set will set you back, but you'll also have to buy a fair amount of wood, which you'd have to plane flat and to thickness because big box material is never straight and flat enough to glue up properly, and or use ply for flat panels.

You'll also need jigs to the modern hinges, and forstner bits to drill to mount them. Another expense.

Not meaning to discourage you, but duplicating and matching the other doors is very likely to fail and you'll have a sore thumb door to live with for many years. Here's a site to price cabinet doors by size. Hampton Bay Custom Unfinished Cabinet Door - The Home Depot


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Left something out. If you decide to build or match with unfinished commercial doors, then you still have to finish them to go with the other woods in the existing cabinet carcasses. This will almost certainly require having enough extra material to try weveral kinds of stains and finishes on to get the match. I think that would be easier to do if you have a cabinet shop make the doors. They will need a sample to match the finish. You have to at least mach the face frames.

Are you sure you can't salvage the existing problem door? Maybe post a picture of that door we can look at to suggest options?.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> Hey Jafo9, sorry about the delay. It is easier to show you than to make a sketch.
> My bullnose bit was from Rockler, I think. You will notice that the grooves are much wider than your originals. It may not matter if you do a batch of doors that are all the same, but one door in a set will stand out some. Other brands may be closer to what you want, otherwise you may be able to get a sharpening service to grind top and bottom edges down.
> The groove to bullnose ratio may also vary by size of bit. I only have one size, cannot remember the radius.
> Thinking about it, you will probably only get what you want in 1/4” shank (like mine), which means multiple passes in order not to stress the bit. I did the sample (soft yellow pine) in two passes, you may need more. I did not quite get the height of the first groove right, yours looks like 7 mm, but you get the idea.
> ...


Thank you for the awesome example! The only difference I see is the groves are wider than what I have. I guess I’ll have to keep searching for a bit that has smaller grooves. Maybe I can have a custom bit made to match?


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> Left something out. If you decide to build or match with unfinished commercial doors, then you still have to finish them to go with the other woods in the existing cabinet carcasses. This will almost certainly require having enough extra material to try weveral kinds of stains and finishes on to get the match. I think that would be easier to do if you have a cabinet shop make the doors. They will need a sample to match the finish. You have to at least mach the face frames.
> 
> Are you sure you can't salvage the existing problem door? Maybe post a picture of that door we can look at to suggest options?.


I plan on making the doors frames myself to match. The doors are painted white with charcoal glaze in the groves. If they were going to be in different rooms, I wouldn’t mind using a different profile bit. Unfortunately, the broken cabinet is really close and I have to match it or make all new doors…


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

@Jafo9,
as Tom says, there are many manufacturers, and you may find the ideal bit. You will need to establish the radius of the bullnose - perhaps you can cut a cross-section from the broken door to show the profile? 
My bit cut a deeper groove than yours - 3/16”. A shallower groove would, I guess, permit “thinner” cutting edges on either side of the bullnose.
I dare say you could have a bit modified or custom-made - you guys are blessed with choices in lumber and tooling that the rest of us only dream about. But I also think a custom-made bit could be a bit pricy. Modification would need some skills, as there are small cutting edges at the top and bottom of the bit.
I can’t tell from the photos whether the panel side of the frame is a 90 degree edge, or whether there is a slight bevel.

Please keep us posted as to how you get on.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> @Jafo9,
> as Tom says, there are many manufacturers, and you may find the ideal bit. You will need to establish the radius of the bullnose - perhaps you can cut a cross-section from the broken door to show the profile?
> My bit cut a deeper groove than yours - 3/16”. A shallower groove would, I guess, permit “thinner” cutting edges on either side of the bullnose.
> I dare say you could have a bit modified or custom-made - you guys are blessed with choices in lumber and tooling that the rest of us only dream about. But I also think a custom-made bit could be a bit pricy. Modification would need some skills, as there are small cutting edges at the top and bottom of the bit.
> ...


Just got a quote at $175+ shipping to make a custom bit. It might be worth while to invest; but I’m cheap and want to find a off the shelf solution. Lol

The outer edge is not 90 degrees, more like 5 degree outward on both sides. The bit width is no more than 5/8ths (sorry metric people); the depth of the 1/2” half round is 1/16th in from the face frame.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> I am having a little trouble responding to this because you've posted two completely different types of doors. And the solution for the first (white) is different that the types in the second set of sample doors.
> 
> The second set of door pictures are fairly common profiles and you might be able to find a match by looking through some catalogs, either online or in print catalogs. I don't think a bull nose will do what you want.
> 
> ...


So many great suggestions. I might just spend the $175+ shipping to have a custom bit made. I’ve been searching and keep coming to the same conclusion; copy the design and tape the bit to the inside of the cabinet door, just in case my kids decide to break another door. Lol


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

So it is the white cbinet you want to match. That's much simpler. I think you can do that with a bead making bit. Like this one that makes 3 beads. You control the number of beads by changing the bit height. Your tape measure covers up come of the corner detail, but I think this is about right. I is also possible since you're only doing one door, that you can use sandpaper on a hand shaped block to perfect the appearance. Again, It will require a bit search.


this.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> I am having a little trouble responding to this because you've posted two completely different types of doors. And the solution for the first (white) is different that the types in the second set of sample doors.
> 
> The second set of door pictures are fairly common profiles and you might be able to find a match by looking through some catalogs, either online or in print catalogs. I don't think a bull nose will do what you want.
> 
> ...


Both doors are the same; with exception of paint/charcoal glaze in the grooves. I found the stained door at Lowe’s which is easier to measure/show the details. I am going to repair the white doors I have already. It’s awful that the doors are no longer made.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> So it is the white cbinet you want to match. That's much simpler. I think you can do that with a bead making bit. Like this one that makes 3 beads. You control the number of beads by changing the bit height. Your tape measure covers up come of the corner detail, but I think this is about right. I is also possible since you're only doing one door, that you can use sandpaper on a hand shaped block to perfect the appearance. Again, It will require a bit search.
> 
> 
> this.
> View attachment 403661


Yes. I went to woodcraft today and I too was thinking of offsetting it as well. The grooves are much wider and deeper once applied. I was able to go in the back workshop and look at it. Back to the drawing board.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> Those commercial doors were not made on a router.
> 
> Here is a sheet of different styles of bits and the profiles they make. But if you're making doors, you need to get a match set of door making bits. Some of these bits will work for the rails and stiles, but door panels are easier to do with a bit set for doors. Every maker has them. I use Sommerfeld Tools matching bit sets. https://www.fabricdirect.com/shop/c...le-46-unbleached-muslin-fabric-100-yard-roll/ You might also want to watch Marc Sommerfeld's videos on youtube on making panel doors. Really good technique, clear and detailed.
> 
> ...


At mlcs they have this finger nail but that looks close, but again the grooves look wide once cut into the material.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Can you not just paint the Lowes door? Are yours custom sizes?
The thumbnail looks too flat, while the bullnose may be too deep.
I think a custom bit may be cheap at the price, especially considering that the sides are not square.
The depth of the bead below the surface is not an issue, you can sink it until the wood rubs up against the shaft of the bit, should you feel so disposed.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> Can you not just paint the Lowes door? Are yours custom sizes?
> The thumbnail looks too flat, while the bullnose may be too deep.
> I think a custom bit may be cheap at the price, especially considering that the sides are not square.
> The depth of the bead below the surface is not an issue, you can sink it until the wood rubs up against the shaft of the bit, should you feel so disposed.


It’s a custom made door, no painting a pre-made door that is a display example. The custom bit is probably the best choice at this point. Unless, there is a router guru that has a better suggestion.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Even if you match the bit , you have to assemble the doors. My guess is the material is ran through a molder/planer..


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

You might just, just scrape by with making two parallel cuts with this bit. I could have sworn I had one, went to test it out, and found I don’t have one.









The sides of the groove will be symmetrical, whereas yours are not, but it may not be a noticeable difference once painted.

The problem with the multi-bead bit shown by Tom, is that you would have to rout the bead, then glue it on to the rest of the rail/style material. Otherwise you will not get the square outermost part of the profile.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> You might just, just scrape by with making two parallel cuts with this bit. I could have sworn I had one, went to test it out, and found I don’t have one.
> View attachment 403670
> 
> 
> ...


What’s that bit called?


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Your part of the world, known as a full bead bit. Lee Valley in Canada has them as beading bits.
‘There is a 3/16 radius option, which should get pretty close to your 5/16 overall bead width. You might have to hand-sand away a fine ridge on the bead, where the two opposing cuts overlap.


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> Your part of the world, known as a full bead bit. Lee Valley in Canada has them as beading bits.
> ‘There is a 3/16 radius option, which should get pretty close to your 5/16 overall bead width. You might have to hand-sand away a fine ridge on the bead, where the two opposing cuts overlap.


I’m going to try a couple of different techniques this weekend and see where it goes. Fingers crossed


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Good luck. Keep us posted.


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## sailer5373 (2 mo ago)

Jafo9 said:


> I need help finding the correct name bit to make this door style:
> 
> View attachment 403600
> 
> ...


Looks like a beading bit for the edge.


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## LouisianaJoe (Apr 15, 2011)

You may have to fine tune the depth but try this: Cut a 3/4" dado in the door, cut a 1/2" dowel in half and center it in the dado. Since you are painting it, you will not be able to tell that it is 2 pieces of wood.


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## Rob Bragg (Feb 7, 2017)

I’m making moldings for a door as I respond to this post. I’m using a CNC though to create the shape using a ball nose bit and a molding tool path. If you have access to a CNC it can be recreated.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

Biagio said:


> You might just, just scrape by with making two parallel cuts with this bit. I could have sworn I had one, went to test it out, and found I don’t have one.
> View attachment 403670
> 
> 
> The sides of the groove will be symmetrical, whereas yours are not, but it may not be a noticeable difference once painted.


Plunge Version may be more useful for a door - not limited to the edge only.


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## Rob Bragg (Feb 7, 2017)

Rob Bragg said:


> I’m making moldings for a door as I respond to this post. I’m using a CNC though to create the shape using a ball nose bit and a molding tool path. If you have access to a CNC it can be recreated.


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## Terry Q (Mar 2, 2017)

deleted


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Update: I pulled the plug and opted for a custom bit. $190. I could not find a suitable match locally or online. Three weeks out until I can test.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

As in surgery, it pays to do it right first time. You won’t remember the cost of the bit in a couple years, but you would get irritated every time you saw the difference between a “close” reproduction and the real thing. Did you send them a piece of molding from the broken door so they can fettle the bit exactly?


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## Jafo9 (29 d ago)

Biagio said:


> As in surgery, it pays to do it right first time. You won’t remember the cost of the bit in a couple years, but you would get irritated every time you saw the difference between a “close” reproduction and the real thing. Did you send them a piece of molding from the broken door so they can fettle the bit exactly?


Yes, I cut the broken door and sent them a sample. Quick turnaround quote. Better than surfing the net and spending $$ on two different bits to get close enough. It’s not expensive, just have to be patient on turnaround. For a novice woodworker, this is a really cool learning experience so far. I’m glad this forum exists.


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