# First use of my skis



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

Here are some pictures of the first thing I used my skis for. I needed to put some drawers in my router table, and I'm building them out of scrap plywood. I needed something for the fronts, and I have stacks of old barn wood under my trailer and welding machine in the shop, so I decide to use it. I don't have a planer (yet) and the drawer front was just a little to big to even smooth out one side on the jointer. It was pretty rough, but I set it on my make shift work table with a sacrificial MDF top and secured it with scrap wood and a pin nailer. I noticed it kind of wobbled, and remembered Harry shimmed his with something when he had that problem. I used a small piece of cardboard to shim the corner that that was not touching. I put my large bottom cleaning bit in my my PC 690, with the HF speed control hooked up and went to town on it. It actually worked pretty good. When that side was finished, I flipped it over and did the other side. I was really suprised at how true both side came out to each other.

The 690 was struggling a little after awhile, and I had to give it a break. I was not taking very much material off at one time in either depth or width of cutter. I am going to make a new plate for my skis that will accept the Makita 3612C that I recently acquired. I think it should plenty of power.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

darrink said:


> Here are some pictures of the first thing I used my skis for. I needed to put some drawers in my router table, and I'm building them out of scrap plywood. I needed something for the fronts, and I have stacks of old barn wood under my trailer and welding machine in the shop, so I decide to use it. I don't have a planer (yet) and the drawer front was just a little to big to even smooth out one side on the jointer. It was pretty rough, but I set it on my make shift work table with a sacrificial MDF top and secured it with scrap wood and a pin nailer. I noticed it kind of wobbled, and remembered Harry shimmed his with something when he had that problem. I used a small piece of cardboard to shim the corner that that was not touching. I put my large bottom cleaning bit in my my PC 690, with the HF speed control hooked up and went to town on it. It actually worked pretty good. When that side was finished, I flipped it over and did the other side. I was really suprised at how true both side came out to each other.
> 
> The 690 was struggling a little after awhile, and I had to give it a break. I was not taking very much material off at one time in either depth or width of cutter. I am going to make a new plate for my skis that will accept the Makita 3612C that I recently acquired. I think it should plenty of power.


Hi Darrin:

Thanks for this. I'm going to voice some observations, not to diminish your comments but to augment them.

Keep this set of skis for the PorterCable. It will be well worth having a different set of skis for the 3612C. When you make the skis for the 3612C cut a space in each one for the handles. The idea is that you can slide the router to one end and the handles can recess into the skis. Alternatively, remove the handles but keep them together with all of the parts so they can be easily and quickly attached. I use Tupperware canisters for tool parts.

1/2" smooth drill rod is my preference for long rods for skis. One of the members promotes threaded rod (or similar) and I found too much router damage when using it.

I also have different lengths of rods. Right now I have 24" threaded, 18" drill rod and 32" drill rod. You don't have to use drill rod but it is my preference. Less deflection than with mild steel rods.

Right now, you're using the skis as a planer and your technique is excellent. I use the skis the same way as you but I've also learned that the router can slide across the rods with equal success. Next, I found if I need to do some precise freehand work I can slide the router to one end, lock it there and control it like a lever with a long handle. I can control it much more precisely like that. 

Don't forget to support the middle of the rods when you're bringing the bit down. Just slide the support out when you start your cut.

I've also found that when cutting circles, that starting divot is hard to conceal. I use a wedge under the rods or one side of the skis and slide the skis off when starting the cut. This gives a gradual entry point and no divot.

It would also help if other member would step in and add additional ski usage comments.

Nicely done, Darrin, and thank you.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well done Darrin, you learn very fast, I doubt that there is much more that I can teach you about skis. As a matter of interest, I don't use my 3612C on the skis, I use that for all other hand routing and a smaller Makita 3600BR permanently on the skis.


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Darrin:
> 
> Thanks for this. I'm going to voice some observations, not to diminish your comments but to augment them.
> 
> ...


Ron,
Thanks for the input and all the ideas. I had not thought about using the skis for cutting circles, but I guess you could.

As for making another set of skis, I like the design of these versus the ones that use rods because of the flex issue. I can slide the router all the way to either end, or use it in the middle and not worry about flex, so if I do make another set, versus just making another plate to fit these, I will use the same design and add notches as you mentioned for the handles to clear. I am also working on a design that will allow the sides to slide on the aluminum rails, not just the router. More to come on that.

Thanks!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Darrin

Nice job,,I have said this b/4 but your ski support rods are the next step up from the round rods,very well done ,,, 

=======


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

harrysin said:


> Well done Darrin, you learn very fast, I doubt that there is much more that I can teach you about skis. As a matter of interest, I don't use my 3612C on the skis, I use that for all other hand routing and a smaller Makita 3600BR permanently on the skis.


Harry,
There is always teaching and learning to be done. I'm always interested in seeing new post and others techniques, that's how I learn the most. People teach by posting pictures and don't even realize it.

What is the HP of the 3600BR? Is it variable speed?


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Darrin
> 
> Nice job,,I have said this b/4 but your ski support rods are the next step up from the round rods,very well done ,,,
> 
> =======


Thanks BJ! Knowing how creative you are, you saying that gives me a big boost in confidence.


----------



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi Darrin....I have a couple of questions as well as a comment or two.

First the comments....I have a Woodhaven Planer as well as the planing bits Woodhaven offers, but in my small shop I find it is a PITA to set up and move around even though it is the smallest one they offer. I primarily build boxes and clocks using 1/2 inch thick stock or less. There is a lumber store in my town that sells 12 inch long x 6 inch wide x 3/4 inch thick stock in several different species of wood both exotic and domestic at a fairly reasonable price. Your ski would appear to be just what I need to plane down the 3/4 inch to my desired thickness with a much smaller footprint.

Now for my questions....What size extrusion did you use for the rails? I have seen both 1 inch and 1.5 inch wide in various lengths at reasonable prices on both Amazon and Ebay. I am leaning toward a 36 inch length ski or is that too long? I see the extrusions have a small hole in the center and was thinking it could be drilled and tapped using a length of threaded rod held in place with Locktite thread sealer. Next question...Why did you cut down the base plate and rabbet the sides? I have on hand several pieces of 1/4 and 3/8 inch thick Lexan that should work as well as a standard base plate and will also give better visibility. I would think a 9 to 10 inch square plate dedicated to a specific router should work very well. Next, why are all skis I see constructed with a curved end or is it purely ascetic? Also why are the rods adjustable vertically in the end pieces? Couldn't the bolts be inserted into a stationary hole and use the router adjustment to set the depth of cut? 

Thanks for any and all info given. To anybody that responds actually.

Ken B.


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

Ken Bee said:


> Hi Darrin....I have a couple of questions as well as a comment or two.
> 
> First the comments....I have a Woodhaven Planer as well as the planing bits Woodhaven offers, but in my small shop I find it is a PITA to set up and move around even though it is the smallest one they offer. I primarily build boxes and clocks using 1/2 inch thick stock or less. There is a lumber store in my town that sells 12 inch long x 6 inch wide x 3/4 inch thick stock in several different species of wood both exotic and domestic at a fairly reasonable price. Your ski would appear to be just what I need to plane down the 3/4 inch to my desired thickness with a much smaller footprint.
> 
> ...


Ken,
Lot of info to cover here. I used 1" X 1" X 24" extrusions. 36" would have been to long for my table. Remember, you have to have room to move it left to right, so just to move it 12" your table would need to be 48" wide. I was not sure if I was going to be happy with mine only being 24", but I'm glad it's not any wider now.

The center hole can be tapped and used to secure the extrusions, this is exactly what I did. 1/4-20 tap and then threaded rod and knobs.

The reason I used the router plate was so that I could use guide bushings if needed. The Lexan would surely give you a good view of things, and you could make guide bushings fit it, it was just more than I wanted to do at the time.

When you say curved end, are you referring to the rounded top and edges? I would say yes, that is purely for aesthetics. They could simply be square if you wanted.

The reason the rods are made to adjust vertically is so you can adjust for taller or thicker pieces. Lets say you build a box, and it is not flush on top and bottom. With the skis adjusted to slightly higher than the height of the box, you could simply plan it down.

I feel the use of skis is only limited by ones imagination, and I'm sure others will come along with other comments, suggestions and answers.

If you have a band saw, I think I would resaw the 3/4" stock closer to 1/2" and then plan it down. If you don't the you may need to take shallow passes depending on the HP of your router and the condition of your bits.

I'm still toying with the idea of making a set that is adjustable in width, like the ones made of rods. I have some ideas, just know time lately to try any of them.

Let me know if I missed anything.


----------



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

darrink said:


> Ken,
> Lot of info to cover here. I used 1" X 1" X 24" extrusions. 36" would have been to long for my table. Remember, you have to have room to move it left to right, so just to move it 12" your table would need to be 48" wide. I was not sure if I was going to be happy with mine only being 24", but I'm glad it's not any wider now.
> 
> The center hole can be tapped and used to secure the extrusions, this is exactly what I did. 1/4-20 tap and then threaded rod and knobs.
> ...


Darrin...Thanks for your speedy reply.

I was getting ready to go out and buy a few things and decided to check for replies to my post. I don't have a band saw but I doubt if 1/16th passes or even 1/8th would be too much at one time using my Milwaukee 2-1/4 HP router just waiting for something to do since I removed it from my router table. I can see where the height adjustment would come in handy now that you explained it. 

I just looked over your pictures again and also rethought your explanation of the size. I must be missing something because I don't fully understand why you would need a 48" table to accommodate a 12 inch jig. Is the router stationary on the rails and you slide the complete jig along the table? It makes more sense to me if the router base plate is slid from end to end on the rails and the ends are stationary while making a pass. For instance if I am milling a 12 inch long board that is 6 inches wide I would mill it with the grain sliding the base plate lengthwise on the rails then move the ski over 2 inches or so depending on the bit diameter to make the next pass and so on. Doing it that way I would only need around 36 inches or less of table for a 24 inch long jig and possibly 18 inches wide for the side to side movement of the jig. My work bench is 24x48 but to take the jig to the next level I would build a dedicated fixture for the jig to set in such as a 24x48 plywood or MDF sheet, install tracks for the ski jig ends to set in so the lateral movement is as even as the longitudinal movement without any twist. I would also use levels on the rails to assure an even pass from end to end and side to side. 

Thanks again for your help and I think I will try my luck at building one as soon as I can get the extrusion.

Ken


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

Ken,
Typically the the base plate is stationary in the extrusions and the whole ski moves. There are some people that use them exactly as you have described, and as long as you achieve the desired results, then there is no problem with doing that way. As I said before, only limited by imagination.

Let me know if you need more info.


----------



## Tom5151 (Dec 5, 2011)

Hi Darrin,

Wow, I had most of the same questions as Ken. Thanks for asking ken and thanks for answering Darrin....

Darrin I have on more if I may. What means do you use to get the extrusions level when you change heights? Do you use a level? Or perhaps a spacer of some type to get a specific uniform height on each side? 

Thanks,
Tom


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

Tom5151 said:


> Hi Darrin,
> 
> Wow, I had most of the same questions as Ken. Thanks for asking ken and thanks for answering Darrin....
> 
> ...


Tom,
I use spacers to get the skis level. Usually I will rip a piece of wood slightly higher than the stock I am working on. I rip it long enough to get two pieces out of it so I can place a piece on both sides of the router plate or under both extrusions. The height is not that critical as long as you have enough travel with the plunge of the router.

I have to say, y'all are giving me way to much credit. All these things I learned right here on Router Forum, so I am just answering questions that others here have answered for me. Harry's tutorials taught me a lot as well as a lot of digging around and looking at pictures and what not.

These have all been great questions, and I hope I have answered them clearly, if not feel free to ask again.


Thanks again!


----------



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

darrink said:


> Ken,
> Typically the the base plate is stationary in the extrusions and the whole ski moves. There are some people that use them exactly as you have described, and as long as you achieve the desired results, then there is no problem with doing that way. As I said before, only limited by imagination.
> 
> Let me know if you need more info.


Darrin....Thanks for the patience and the replies. You have been a tremendous help. As far giving you credit, yours is the first one that really grabbed my attention due to your using the extrusions that I have seen. 

In saying that I DO NOT mean to take away credit to all the other skis as built by other members of the forum.

I think between the two of us all my major questions and concerns have been answered. I shall now try my hand at building one based on my imagination. 

Once I get it complete I will post pics of my interpretation of the ski.

Thanks again.

Ken


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Ken:



Ken Bee said:


> I must be missing something because I don't fully understand why you would need a 48" table to accommodate a 12 inch jig. Is the router stationary on the rails and you slide the complete jig along the table?


My ski table is 36" x 48" for a pair of 32" skis and they just fit. Yes, you do slide the complete ski across the table and you fix your workpiece to the table. 



Ken Bee said:


> It makes more sense to me if the router base plate is slid from end to end on the rails and the ends are stationary while making a pass.


This does work, and well. There are several problems that you have to account for. Firstly, I anchor the left ski against a "common" very low, fence. The ski on one side of the fence and the workpiece on the other side. So, the operation becomes, clamp left ski against left side of fence. Position workpiece on right side of fence and clamp to table. Make your pass without putting downward force on the router or the rods will deflect. Unclamp either the router or the workpiece and slide one width of cut and reclamp. Repeat cutting and clamping until the cut is complete. I put a block under the rods just beside the workpiece to aid in reducing rod deflection.



Ken Bee said:


> For instance if I am milling a 12 inch long board that is 6 inches wide I would mill it with the grain sliding the base plate lengthwise on the rails then move the ski over 2 inches or so depending on the bit diameter to make the next pass and so on. Doing it that way I would only need around 36 inches or less of table for a 24 inch long jig and possibly 18 inches wide for the side to side movement of the jig. My work bench is 24x48 but to take the jig to the next level I would build a dedicated fixture for the jig to set in such as a 24x48 plywood or MDF sheet, install tracks for the ski jig ends to set in so the lateral movement is as even as the longitudinal movement without any twist. I would also use levels on the rails to assure an even pass from end to end and side to side.


This is very doable. My basic router table is 24x48 and it is barely big enough for an 18" long rod set. My "working" rods are 32". I have 24"x48"x36" high modules on casters. The 36"x48" "ski" top is barely large enough to support the workpiece and allow room for ski movement. I have to use another module to support the workpiece. 

My pivot frame table is also 36x48 but will be equipped with rails and circular guides (when complete -- experimentation underway.)

BTW, skis are a method, not a jig or a fixture. The reason is that a jig guides the router, a method holds the router and a fixture holds the workpiece. There are 25 methods, and hundreds (or thousands) of jigs and fixtures depending on the method used.



Ken Bee said:


> Thanks again for your help and I think I will try my luck at building one as soon as I can get the extrusion.
> 
> Ken


I would suggest that you try some rods first. Here's the problem with Darrin's implementation. The "rods" (extrusions) are less susceptible to deflection but they also reduce dramatically the depth of cut of the router unless you suspend the base below the rods. Also the rods do not go through the router base but are an add-on. The more parts, the greater the chance of failure. 

That said, his solution is excellent and he did a very nice job implementing them.


----------



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Ken:
> 
> I would suggest that you try some rods first. Here's the problem with Darrin's implementation. The "rods" (extrusions) are less susceptible to deflection but they also reduce dramatically the depth of cut of the router unless you suspend the base below the rods. Also the rods do not go through the router base but are an add-on. The more parts, the greater the chance of failure.
> 
> That said, his solution is excellent and he did a very nice job implementing them.


Hi allthumbs....I understand what you are saying about the depth of cut, but there are several ways around that detail and I have the perfect solution. The Woodhaven planing sled uses an arbor that extends the cutting depth 2-5/8" without the bit which is around 1 inch long so that gives me 3-5/8" +/- and I also have the MLCS extensions. If the ski ends are slotted correctly the vertical adjustment will allow the plate to sit dead on the workbench without the workpiece in place and the upper adjustment is as high as you want. As far as the rods going through the router base I don't have a router that will allow that and I am not going to buy another router just to have that feature. In light of that Darrin's ski is the ideal solution IMHO. 

bobj also designed a ski using angles to attach the rods to the plate using a router that didn't accept the rods through the base. 

Darrin said it best, you are only "limited by your imagination" and to me that is a key ingredient in woodworking. 90% of my boxes, clocks, jigs and fixtures are built from book pictures and pictures in my mind without the help of layouts or measurements written on a piece of paper. 

After saying all of this I do appreciate your input and suggestions and for that I thank you.

Ken


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Ken:

Please understand. My comments were to expand the conversation and were not a comment on anyone's implementation of skis. I use them quite differently than most people. My comments are targeted at others coming to this thread with questions about skis.



Ken Bee said:


> Hi allthumbs....I understand what you are saying about the depth of cut, but there are several ways around that detail and I have the perfect solution. The Woodhaven planing sled uses an arbor that extends the cutting depth 2-5/8" without the bit which is around 1 inch long so that gives me 3-5/8" +/- and I also have the MLCS extensions. If the ski ends are slotted correctly the vertical adjustment will allow the plate to sit dead on the workbench without the workpiece in place and the upper adjustment is as high as you want. As far as the rods going through the router base I don't have a router that will allow that and I am not going to buy another router just to have that feature. In light of that Darrin's ski is the ideal solution IMHO.


Yes, the MLCS extensions. I have enough problems with side forces when using 1/4" bits. I don't like the extensions. I've had enough bits become projectiles through my very steep learning curve to be wary of anything that might contribute to my fear. 

I'm experimenting using skis to hold the router at an angle to give a variation in the cut. For that, the plunge depth is critical. Sort of like a 1/2 angler.



Ken Bee said:


> bobj also designed a ski using angles to attach the rods to the plate using a router that didn't accept the rods through the base.


Yes, I'm familiar with his implementation. It is a solution to a problem and does the job well for him.



Ken Bee said:


> Darrin said it best, you are only "limited by your imagination" and to me that is a key ingredient in woodworking. 90% of my boxes, clocks, jigs and fixtures are built from book pictures and pictures in my mind without the help of layouts or measurements written on a piece of paper.
> 
> After saying all of this I do appreciate your input and suggestions and for that I thank you.
> 
> Ken


You might explore the pivot frame and variations on that theme. You might find that part of the discipline quite interesting.


----------



## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

Where can I purchase rods for my Bosch 1617 plunge base?


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I see that Mike has checked out your public profile so I'm surprised that he didn't answer your question. Where are you Mike?

This pdf might help you to make the skis.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Phillip, I did not want to modify my routers base to accept the larger steel rods. Rods less than 12 mm or 1/2" tend to sag with the weight of the router. This is why I developed the plywood ski jigs. As Harry will tell you a plunge router is the best way to take advantage of the ski jigs. A fixed base router on a ski jig is mostly limited to edging and thickness planing. (like the Bosch 1604 on the small ski jig)


----------



## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

So if I'm reading you correctly, the holes that are already on my plunge base are probably undersized, and I should go with a jig using wooden rails instead (like the one you have posted).

Thanks for the input, I'll see about putting one like that together.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike, how well does that ski jig work, I don't recall seeing any projects using it.


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

phillipdanbury said:


> So if I'm reading you correctly, the holes that are already on my plunge base are probably undersized, and I should go with a jig using wooden rails instead (like the one you have posted).
> 
> Thanks for the input, I'll see about putting one like that together.


Phillip:

You have a series of options:

1. increase the size of the holes in the base of your router

2. use short rods (I have 18" and 30" rods)

3. build in supports between the rods and the workpiece such that there are three (or four...) bearing points

4. use a mounting method like Mike's trim router setup.

5. (this is my preferred) I pick up routers at garage sales for specific purposes. Large Makitas and large Hitachis are excellent ski candidates.


----------



## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

How would I increase the side of the holes on the plunge base?


----------



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

phillipdanbury said:


> How would I increase the side of the holes on the plunge base?


Hi Phillip:

You can take it to a machinist. Explain to him what you'll be using it for and ask him if there is enough metal to increase the size of the holes. You might take the skiis and bars with you to show him. He'll decide if there's enough metal. Alternatively, Bob Jenkins built up a base that extended beyond the router base and the rods could be installed there.

You must also understand that there are a variety of ways to use skiis. I use mine to slide along the surface of the table, or fix the skiis and slide the router along the rails. I also skew my rails so the router is set at an angle and thus differ the cut. 

hope this helps


----------

