# Let's talk shops...



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

About 15 years ago, I thought about building a shop myself, but didn't have time. I'd like to know how you would have built (or have built) a shed for a shop. If you've done it, what did it cost, how long did it take to put up? Did you have help, hire someone to help or to build it? 

What would you consider a reasonable size shop? 

In other words, how about a discussion about shops for hobbyists. I know some of you have very large shops, really almost commercial shops, but I'd like to restrict this to garage size or smaller.

I'll start with mine. My shop is a 12 x 24 ft shed that has been insulated, wired and even has a lean to that houses the dust collection unit. My wife gave me a birthday present and had an electrician install a 60 amp (3 20 amp circuits) sub panel. 

The shed was prefab and brought in and put on a rock base via a trailer. Wish I'd gone for the 16 x 24 instead, but it is nice to have a separate shop. Basic cost for the shed was about $4,000. The construction is 2x4 on 24 inch centers. So insulation is a layer of reflective radiant barrier (R4) and fiberglass batts (R13). The ceiling is 2x8, also about on 24 inch centers, so insulation up there is the radiant barrier plus R38 fiberglass batts. The ceiling is 2 inch insulating foam, cut to fit the odd spacing of the rafters, adds another R6 or so with an additional radiant layer.

If I had my druthers, I'd have built it with 2x6 on 16 inch centers and used R38 and radiant barrier all round. The 105 degree heat and below freezing winters here in the high desert would be less oppressive with that extra insulation. I also have some tools and storage space in my garage, so my wood prep happens out there.

Walls are covered by a combination of 1/4 inch pegboard across one long wall with the rest a mix of plywood and some drywall. 

There is a second smaller shed next to it that houses my office. It shares the power with the shop, which is no problem since only one is in use at any time. There is a 4 ft space between that is now enclosed completely that has my HF DC, Super Dust Deputy and chip collector inside. The dust comes in via a 4 inch line, and exits the HF unit via a 1 micron drum filter. It then goes into the chamber and returns through a 20x20 filter back into the shop so I don't lose AC or heat. The yellow box on the front, outside wall is the remnants of my first DC system, a washable filter...it didn't work well.

The shed came with two 60 inch long single pane windows, but I covered them over with 2 inch foam sheets because they leaked heat/cold. A couple of years ago I added several very bright LED lights, two 2400 lumen over the bench and table saw, 800 +lumens over key tools and into the corners. No dark spots. It noticeably reduced the power usage and makes it more cheerful. Kind of late to do it now, but wish I'd painted it white before filling the shop. The peg board wall is great for hanging small accessories in their packages. 

OK, now what are your thoughts, ideas, wishes, fantasies or plans for a shop, or tell us about your shop or plans for a shop. Would you build your own, got any pictures, plan or drawings? 

OK, it's your turn.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

My shop is a double garage that came with the house. It was all insulated and ceiling covered with 1/4" plywood ,walls with 1/2" drywall painted white. It had its own 65amp breaker box, which I branched out with surface conduit for 220v.and 120 v. outlets and installed 30 4'X 2 tube florescent lights in big main area and some existing 2X 2 T12 tube lights. I built an entrance alcove for the DC,air compressor, and lumber storage.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I seriously think a guy needs a minimum of 36x36 to be comfortable ,as I’m tripping all over stuff in my 22x26 shop .
My dream shop would be 60x40x14 and have a bathroom. The 70 million hasn’t been won yet, so I’m crossing my fingers lol .

Herb nice looking shop , how big is it ? Most of ours are 24x24, as you need to pour special footings if you exceed that size


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I seriously think a guy needs a minimum of 36x36 to be comfortable ,as I’m tripping all over stuff in my 22x26 shop .
> My dream shop would be 60x40x14 and have a bathroom. The 70 million hasn’t been won yet, so here’s hoping.
> 
> Herb , nice looking shop . How big?


Rick, it is 22'X36'. You are right, never enough room, I think 40'X40' or 60'X60' would be ideal if I won the 70M.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick, it is 22'X36'. You are right, never enough room, I think 40'X40' or 60'X60' would be ideal if I won the 70M.
> Herb


Wow you’ve got me by 10’ . That would be a major improvement in the tripping over stuff department lol


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

In 1995 the place I was working, closed, moved to South Carolina, so was laid off. I got a nice bonus, because I put in suggestions. All the suggestions were unacceptable, but strangely enough about six months later one of the supervisors submitted the same thing, but different of course. Those suggestions were accepted, along with a nice chunk of $ to the supervisor. Anyway, I got around $1500, and none of the other workers got a cent.

That was extra money, so went for a shop. Knew if I didn't buy a shop then would likely never be able to again. $785 if I recall right, a bit extra because of a window in the back wall. Guy came out on a Saturday morning, about 8AM, put together prefabbed pieces he had done at home, worked alone, and had it up, including shingled roof, by noon. A roomy 8X12 feet. Rest of the money went for tools, in particular a used Shopsmith. Later figured out how to fit in separate tools, so sold the Shopsmith and used that money for tools. Never been in a position to get another shop, so that is still it. Ample room for the stuff I do. It was that or nothing, and didn't want nothing. Right now, I figure for the shop and tools in it I have around $2500 total invested. Money well spent. I always keep it nice and neat at all times also.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm coming to play at your house, Herb!  What a great space!


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

JOAT said:


> In 1995 the place I was working, closed, moved to South Carolina, so was laid off. I got a nice bonus, because I put in suggestions. All the suggestions were unacceptable, but strangely enough about six months later one of the supervisors submitted the same thing, but different of course. Those suggestions were accepted, along with a nice chunk of $ to the supervisor. Anyway, I got around $1500, and none of the other workers got a cent.
> 
> That was extra money, so went for a shop. Knew if I didn't buy a shop then would likely never be able to again. $785 if I recall right, a bit extra because of a window in the back wall. Guy came out on a Saturday morning, about 8AM, put together prefabbed pieces he had done at home, worked alone, and had it up, including shingled roof, by noon. A roomy 8X12 feet. Rest of the money went for tools, in particular a used Shopsmith. Later figured out how to fit in separate tools, so sold the Shopsmith and used that money for tools. Never been in a position to get another shop, so that is still it. Ample room for the stuff I do. It was that or nothing, and didn't want nothing. Right now, I figure for the shop and tools in it I have around $2500 total invested. Money well spent. I always keep it nice and neat at all times also.


This is the original Tiny Shop! I’m sure you do a lot of work outdoors in good weather too, huh?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@DesertRatTom..
where's the pics of the inside of the shop???


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Bstrom said:


> This is the original Tiny Shop! I’m sure you do a lot of work outdoors in good weather too, huh?


Actually, the only work outside so far were my Tikis, and cutting angle iron with an angle grander - way too many sparks to do it inside. Didn't want to wave the chainsaw around in the shop. Everything on the floor is moveable, amazing how much free space you can generate that way. 

Oh, I forgot to say what I think the ideal shop size would be. I believe I could get by with around 15,000 square feet, to begin with.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @DesertRatTom..
> where's the pics of the inside of the shop???


Posted those long ago. It's kind of tight in there, so here it is in sections, at least as many of pictures as I can find.

Pictures in order. 
1 Folding work bench. Harbor Freight. almost always fully open now.
2 Me at my table saw, some of the shop visible in the background.
3 Workbench folded down, it's usual position. Now shown are large amounts of pine under the lip of the table to facilitate clamping.
4 TS, small band saw, sliding miter with DC curtain, all on shop built cabinets with doors to keep dust out. You can also see the outfeed table and some shelving for less often used tools and some larger jigs.
5 Sideways picture of the DC chamber. Look close and you see the HF unit, chip collector, Super Dust Deputy and in the background, the return to the shop
6 Back wall of shop with pegboard covering with smattering of tools and also to the far right, the clamp area.
7 Counter area on the right side of the shop, small stuff, small hardware, all my manuals and receipts.
8 under construction shot of the DC chamber. Door in back leads to a small comfort station., and a bit of the sub panel. This chamber is well sealed to keep cleaned air contained for return to shop.
9 Storage shelves behind workbench. Note matching plastic, covered boxes, labeled with content. Tape, and odd stuff lives up higher, floor area is clear for easier cleanup.
10 The shop with my original TS and tools. Layout is largely the same, just a little tighter.
11 another shot of the storage area next to the workbench. Note it's on racks so they can be changed. It also now holds the overflow of clamps, which just fit into the shelves.
12 Router table with DC box underneath. Still there. Table is same height as TS so I can feed long pieces across it.
13 Tool storage drawers from HF. Keep most larger drills, files, dado set, and some rarely used tool in there.
14 My Laguna Hybrid Table saw with outfeed table and a small storage drawer unit for the odd TS accessories. I've since replaced the miter gauge with an Incra, but also use a Rockler sled in additin to some shop made jigs and tall fence.
15 pix of radiant barrier in garage roof and part of the insulated garage roll up door.

That is all.

The Garage houses another HF DC unit, chip collector with Rockler setup. I keep a Laguna Fourteen 12 band saw, PowerMatic 6 inch jointer and a DeWalt 735 planer out there as well as some storage for 5x5 BB ply. Lots of shelving for misc stuff as well. The Garage had an open ceiling, but we had it insulated and dry walled a couple of years ago and it is far morelivable these days. The inside of the roof sheeting was covered first with about $250 of radient reflective mateial, which lowered the temp by 35 degrees on that surface. then R38 and 50ths sheetrock ceiling. One side was unfinished so we had that insulated drywalled, then shot insulation into the remaining, uninsulated walls. The roll up garage door has a layer of radient barrier, then 1.5 inch insulating foam, then another layer of radient barrier Which was well worth the effort. No longer blasts heat into the garage. I can open the door into the house and let the evaporative cooler air come in to knock off any heat.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

JOAT said:


> Actually, the only work outside so far were my Tikis, and cutting angle iron with an angle grander - way too many sparks to do it inside. Didn't want to wave the chainsaw around in the shop. Everything on the floor is moveable, amazing how much free space you can generate that way.
> 
> Oh, I forgot to say what I think the ideal shop size would be. I believe I could get by with around 15,000 square feet, to begin with.


Does that include an indoor pistol range?
Herb


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Herb Stoops said:


> Does that include an indoor pistol range?
> Herb


Hell no, you think I'm some kind of nut or something. No, I'll make it 15 foot wide and stretch it out, should make a nice rifle range.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

JOAT said:


> Actually, the only work outside so far were my Tikis,


Yeah, I said that. But had to get a new set of woodcarving chisels to replace the set I can't find. Possibly walked away with one of my sons. Figure on using just the chisels, not the chainsaw, so would prefer working inside. Besides need a place to lay the chisels and carving mallets out. Had thought of a couple of sawhorses. But earlier tonight it suddenly struck me how to make a carving cradle for Tikis. Need to work out a few details, but should be capable of taking wood from 2 to 4 ft. It'll clamp the wood, can turn it up, so can store in about a square foot. This will also allow it to be turned easily, then lowered to work on the other side. The only thing I haven't actually worked out so far is how to turn the wood over, to work on the sides. I've got several thoughts on this, just need to pick the best method.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

Have never had enough shop space, even when I had a 4000 sq ft building for building Pioneer Electronics demo car fleet in the 90s. Also suffer from automotive and snowmobile addictions, so those bring plenty of space and money shortages all on their own.

Been living here in Toronto the last 16 yrs. House came with a 13x20 car and a half garage, totally unfinished, with a asphalt floor which continues to be the bane of my existence. Added a loft for storage, converted the fuse panel to 240V out there, added some sheds for extra storage and remote dust collection. Also put up a 20x10 car shelter / tent in the driveway about 10 feet in front of the garage.

Multiple hobby disciplines and making things movable when possible has been my guiding light. The garage used to serve as a snowmobile service center, since a sled should be maintained and serviced/inspected after virtually every ride.....never mind the modifications like a new track, drive shaft, suspension relocation etc.

The car has lived in the shelter the last 4 years during the current restoration, but it will end up finding an indoor home next winter. The garage/shop functions in winter (partially insulated, oil and ceramic heaters), but for real woodworking the nice weather is required so the little portable table saw and chop saw can sit in front of the garage. Beggars can't be choosers, but I am fortunate that I have most of a complete woodworking, car audio and car restoration/maintenance shop stuffed into this little space, as well as some storage etc in the the basement furnace room. There is a dedicated welding table (I built) comprising the basis for metal working area in the LF corner at the door that is accessible (barely) with the door closed.

Built a 5hp 17cfm 240V 60gall compressor with about 100 ft of iron pipe throughout the garage and feeding outside to the work area and the car shelter, which also has three highbay lights as well as air and electricity in it. Ghetto to the max, but it all works.

The one thing missing from a woodworking perspective is a real table saw; that will be added after the car is screwed back together and I can clean up and take advantage of the newfound space currently taken up by the doors, dash, sandblasting cabinet etc. Below are some pics, incl the car stereo/12Volt test bench I built 2 Christmases ago.

Just bought a double scissor lift hoist for the car (old German made Nussbaum from a Mercedes dealership) that will be installed inside the car shelter later this summer.


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

My shop is 14'X 30' it is a block building that was on my property when we bought it. I always wished it was bigger. My son and grandson helped me put a new steel roof on it this weekend. My grandson is currently unemployed due to this virus mess. He manages a restaurant in Orlando so I put him to work. We are also going to tear off the original 9 X 30 lean to. We are going to build a new inclosed lean to that will be 14 X 30 with a wood floor for storage. Our idol show vending trailer and truck is sitting to the left of the shop it is patiently waiting to get back on the road.At least I am getting caught up on projects around here.


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## jemangin (Oct 23, 2013)

My shop is in the basement storage room. It is about 14 by 20'. I am banging into things constantly but it is convenient and warm. Building the 8' long tv console was a challenge. 

The location keeps me from buying new heavy machines. Saw a great deal on a Hammer combo planer/jointer but the memories of getting the jointer, bandsaw and table saw down there stopped me from buying it. The house is a walk out so it does have a door to the outside ground level but it is still brutal moving things in and out. 

A smaller shop makes you organized. I have a lot of things on wheels so you can move them around. My best investment was the Clearvue cyclone and taking the time to plumb all of my machines. When your shop is in your house dust collection is paramount for marital bliss.

PS Before Stick makes a comment about it being too clean. My day job is in a sterile room that is cleaned every 20 minutes and everything has its place. I like things clean and tidy.


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

I don't have any picture, well I don't have much of a shop at home. My scroll saw is in the garage but what I do mostly is in the spare bedroom. Lots of painting and small HO scale buildings. I keep dreaming about a shop with everything together guess I will keep dreaming. lol


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Holy Hanna, Paul; you're a serious 'Most Tools Wins' contender!


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I am currently in a 2 car garage under the house, which helps a little in summer and winter, but I have to be mindful of the noise when the ladies are sleeping. We added a sun room off of the master bedroom which gave me about a 12 foot overhang outside of the garage doors. This has been a fantastic improvement in my space, as it allows me to set up the jointer and planer outside, and I don't have to panic if the afternoon pop-up shower rolls through in the summertime.

My dream shop will be detached, in the 3-car garage range to around 30x40 feet. Ten foot ceilings are a must, as I have really gotten used to them. I would also like a wash sink and a toilet if I can squeeze that in. We have looked at a couple properties which would have been perfect, but are waiting until my youngest graduates this summer before seriously looking.

If I have to build, it will either be a pole barn or a miracle truss steel building. Both have advantages and disadvantages, and I am sure to agonize over all of them when the time comes.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

marecat3 said:


> I don't have any picture, well I don't have much of a shop at home. My scroll saw is in the garage but what I do mostly is in the spare bedroom. Lots of painting and small HO scale buildings. I keep dreaming about a shop with everything together guess I will keep dreaming. lol


You might have a small shop, but you sure do nice work, Mary.
Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

jemangin said:


> My shop is in the basement storage room. It is about 14 by 20'. I am banging into things constantly but it is convenient and warm. Building the 8' long tv console was a challenge.
> 
> The location keeps me from buying new heavy machines. Saw a great deal on a Hammer combo planer/jointer but the memories of getting the jointer, bandsaw and table saw down there stopped me from buying it. The house is a walk out so it does have a door to the outside ground level but it is still brutal moving things in and out.
> 
> ...


14'X20' is small for a ClearView 5hp DC, how do you handle the db's, Jamie? Great looking shop and the overhead DC ducting looks well planned out. The whole shop is well organised too. Good job.
Herb


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## RobertGytre (Apr 14, 2020)

Thank you.


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Great thread, thanks for kicking it off. 

Okay, I’ve got my architect’s hat back on, and here are some basic thoughts, as derived from my personal shop agony — our garage was the original 1909 Model A Ford garage, which was 11’ x 14’ and has a 7’ x 8’ door. Of course it was built down to the ground (dirt) and was recently torn down, because there was not a single piece of it that was not infected with some combination of rot, termites, and/or powder post beetles. I now have a temporary “shop” that is a Costco 10’x20’ tent “garage.”

This contains: 3’x6’ custom MFT slab workbench, Delta 6” Super Pro jointer, portable duster extractor cart, Laguna 16” bandsaw, Ridgid 13” planer, HF/Thien DC, small tool tool storage, chop saw, Delta 40C RAS, Delta 30C RAS, and hand tool storage. My router “table” is a Bench Dog top that I clamp in a Workmate as needed. Supplies are stored elsewhere, don’t ask. Yes, it is tight, but it is efficient. 

My thoughts:
1) Besides the brain + pencil + measuring, the shop space itself is the single most important tool, because it is used for EVERY single project we approach going forward, and it will affect, good our bad, every single woodworking experience we have thereafter. Thinking of the shop as a custom tool helps us get it right. 
1.5) Given #1 above, the shop is and should be, without question, the most expensive tool in our kits; don’t forget this imperative as we start budgeting, it is the very best money to be spent. 
2) For me, mobility is essential. 
3) Overhead clearance = > 9’-0” minimum. This is a big deal. More overhead clearance implies there is more vertical wall space, and that equals more storage opportunity, plus the ability to move full 8’-0” material lengths around with relative ease. A complication can be the inclusion of a DC system, and this is painfully clear to those with 8’ ceilings who add overhead DC piping — what was once an 8’ ceiling suddenly becomes a 7’-6” ceiling as piping gets added. 
4) Linear layouts, like my tent, are more efficient for circulation: My tent is tight, but so are the other small spaces I’ve seen, and I squeeze a complete shop with big industrial tools into 200sf because I have only 1 ~3’ aisle. Circulation space is wasted space, and this is why I refuse to own a table saw. In a single 4’ x 6’ space I get to have 2 fully functional RAS. That will never happen with a TS. Also, because my space is tight, I save a bundle on high performance dust collection (one of the most expensive “tools” in the shop). Square layouts are the worst choice for design experts, we hate them. 
5) Build in a big door for easy outdoor access, and somehow include an outdoor work area by that main entry. Working outdoors is transformative for most people. 
6) HF has a great 15A wireless tool triggering 3-pack for CHEAP. This is cheap sanity for those of us who want to control dust.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Excellent insights, Bradley. Do you have a new permanent shop in the works? We'd love to see the plans and progress pics if you feel like posting them(?)...


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## maintrackstudio (Apr 16, 2020)

Great!


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

DaninVan said:


> Holy Hanna, Paul; you're a serious 'Most Tools Wins' contender!


if you are referring to me, there is a trove of duplicates (only the most commonly used tools) in the basement; right next to the race track mobile two boxes that can leave with me at a moments notice.

Appreciate the nod, I have way more tools than skills, but I'm working on that........


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I just looked up a 20x30 metal building and the basic building would be about 9K. Don't know if that includes a slab, but I doubt. I have the space for it, but not the cash. That would do the trick for me. The slab would cost a pretty penny, and I'd have to insulate somehow. 

I think building your own out of 2x6 for great insulation would be less, but I'm not in good enough shape to do that anymore. So I'll be happy with my present shop.


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## Bob Adams (Jul 5, 2014)

About 3yrs before I retired my wife and I bought our retirement property. At the time it had a really nasty (mice infested) single wide trailer that we were required to remove before we could occupy the property. The one saving grace of the trailer, was that previous owner had built a pole barn roof structure to cover the trailer. The roof was metal, the headers were 4x18 gluelams and the posts were 6x6's spaced 14' apart. After we tore out the trailer and built our house, I used the roof structure as the basis of my shop. With the caveat that my wife insisted that the shop include a 2 car garage. The building ended up 17x70 and my shop area is 30x17 for the tools and a 8x13 space for wood storage. Except for the concrete I did all of the work by myself. The pole barn style allowed me to use 2x6 studs on 32" centers which saved some money. We reused the windows from the trailer, and I didn't insulate the ceiling in the garage area. My total cost for the building was $23k and change. The slab was 6k of that, but I did all of prep work including forms. I did all of the electrical work which includes a 100amp sub panel. The entire build took me 18 months to the day, to complete. This was working on it everyday after work, and weekends. If I had my druthers and money was no object I would like a shop area that was 25x30 but I really can't complain.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Great shop, Bob,you did id up good. Nice to have it like you want it from the start.
Herb


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> I just looked up a 20x30 metal building and the basic building would be about 9K. Don't know if that includes a slab, but I doubt. I have the space for it, but not the cash. That would do the trick for me. The slab would cost a pretty penny, and I'd have to insulate somehow.
> 
> I think building your own out of 2x6 for great insulation would be less, but I'm not in good enough shape to do that anymore. So I'll be happy with my present shop.


Tom we put a 24 X 26 X 9' steel garage with concrete to store our vehicles in North Florida it was under 10,000 with concrete about 4 years ago 
I asked about insulation it was about 2000 more I did not add it. Ours was a little more because I had 2 roll up doors in the front and one in the back a man door and 2 windows and it is Hurricane rated. I would think the 9k might include the concrete on the one you where quoted. Here is one I found on line just for the base price. https://www.carport.com/shop/metal-building-specials/clearance-double-wide-metal-garage-24x26x9/


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That's a nice looking garage, Roxanne. Great value!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@roxanne562001 Thanks for that information. I opened the conversation with my wife about putting one in in the back yard, and converting the garage into living space, something we'd discussed several times. That would probably increase the value of the property by at least 20-25 K. Would have to wait a bit, but we're in a pretty nice neighborhood and our valuation is already pretty good because of that. That building doesn't look like a steel structure, which is not permitted so we'd have to get an exemption. It is unlikely that I would put in a shop, my wife would probably be annoyed.


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Excellent insights, Bradley. Do you have a new permanent shop in the works? We'd love to see the plans and progress pics if you feel like posting them(?)...


Dan, yes a new shop is on the drawing board (computer) so to speak. Because I live in a very modest home in a dense urban area, the new shop is going to be only a bit l larger than what I presently have, but I have some tricks up my sleeve....😉


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> That's a nice looking garage, Roxanne. Great value!


Thanks Dan. 
Tom here we have no restrictions on metal buildings but I know some places are restricted . You would have to check with code enforcement. Now I just got to save up enough to put in a driveway. I am set back about 500 feet. I am thinking about asphalt millings over a lime rock base. One day I hope.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@roxanne562001 We have several large steel buildings in the neighborhood (1.5 acre lots), so I'll have to check on it. A 20 K increase in value for a 10 K investment would be pretty good. Our property drops about 3-5 feet from front to where the steel garage might go, unless we build a pad with a short retaining wall to hold the dirt in place. Not sure we'd have to put in a drive way. Hummmmmm.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Straightlines said:


> Dan, yes a new shop is on the drawing board (computer) so to speak. Because I live in a very modest home in a dense urban area, the new shop is going to be only a bit l larger than what I presently have, but I have some tricks up my sleeve....😉


A bunker in the basement? 
Those survivalist folks aren't looking quite so doomsdayish now...


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