# Dust collection - Do something about it...



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I read an article yesterday about the hazards of invisible sawdust in a small shop, and it frightened my so badly that today I redid my dust capturing system by building a filtered vent to the outside of the shop. There is a collection barrel that catches most of the big sawdust and chips, but the problem was that there was a high filtration dust bag at the end of the suction system located inside the shop which leaked invisible dust inside the shop. I know that's so because of the coughing fits after working in the shop. I'm sure it would not have passed an OSHA inspection.

The box in the picture replaces the old filter bag and pumps all remaining dust through a washable filter and then outside. This not only got the fine particles that cause lung problems out of the shop, but markedly increased the air flow through the system so even more dust gets sucked in from each power tool. I hope this post will encourage others to find a workable fix because fine dust can do you in.

The filter holder on the outside has a closable slot to drop in and pull the washable filter. The box is attached to the front of the shop (It will be painted later), and the last shot shows the dust collection system inside -- Long hose to the tool, into the separator bin, up the black hose, through the blower, then out the horizontal hose and through the wall into the new exhaust filter. Cool. Kind of messy now, but I'll finish it all up neatly over the next few days. Hope this inspires some of you to do something about that invisible dust in your shop that threatens your health.

Have any of you found ways to eliminate or reduce the dust hazard in your shop?

I also added a copy of the article that motivated me.:yes4:


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've been considering doing the same thing for the same reasons.


----------



## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

The only problem I can see with venting the DC outside is that all heat/AC (if you have it in your shop) will be vented out with the dust.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

curiousgeorge said:


> The only problem I can see with venting the DC outside is that all heat/AC (if you have it in your shop) will be vented out with the dust.


so let's throw another hat into the ring...

enclose the DC in it's own room...
this room can be internal or external to the shop...
it's sound dampened/proofed...
it has smoke sealed X large doorway for access...
since my DC's are in the corners of the shop both internal walls have doors...
one wall has a filtration pack similar to DRT's that vents the DC's exhaust air back into the shop for HVAC recovery...
I put the filtration packs in the doors... super easy to service...

because of out of sight out of mind...

the DC has a run indicator light visible in the shop...
the inlet side of the DC has a manometer hooked to it w/ the gage external to the DC's ""closet"" and internal/visible from inside the shop for continuous monitoring of the DC's filters..


----------



## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

I like Stick's method. Several months ago I realized how bad my shop was (in the basement). I installed a Jet filtration suspended from the ceiling in the shop. The outer filter really showed the dust after the first day. One of my biggest problems is dust leaking from the dust collector. I also keep a box fan sitting on the floor running all the time with a washable filter leaning against the back. It helps, but still not where I would like to be. The furnace has a 6" thick filter. It helps a lot. Malcolm / Kentucky USA


----------



## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

If your really worried about your health, wear a quality dust respirator.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a respirator that works very well, but got out of the habit of wearing it. Stick: I thought of putting it outside the shed and can still do it. It is a bit unsightly since there is a garden area around it, but since my cough is now subsiding, I think the idea sounds better every moment. Beside that, I would pick up a little extra floor space. I do have a fan and filter hanging from the ceiling that has been filtering out the dust. But first, a major cleanup and removal of everything that is on the floor that interferes with vacuuming. Off to the garage it goes. Thanks for the suggestions. What I've done is a big improvement already, especially the increased air flow.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

curiousgeorge said:


> The only problem I can see with venting the DC outside is that all heat/AC (if you have it in your shop) will be vented out with the dust.


George, I only run the DC when I'm running a tool. Otherwise it stays off. I have a room AC installed and didn't notice any change in temp even running the DC for 15 minutes. Winter may be another story. We'll see. The reduction in coughing from dust will make it worth buying a down vest to keep warm.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

so make the outside DC closet look like the rest of the building and vent back into the shop...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

If you win a lottery, you could also install a heat recovery unit.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

*Thanks Stick for the suggestion.*



Stick486 said:


> so make the outside DC closet look like the rest of the building and vent back into the shop...


Oh, I see, take the dust out of the shop, filter and filter it again, then return the clean air to the shop through a hepa grade final filter. If there were a succession of chambers with a filter between each, and the hepa filter at the return end that could work. That would keep warm/cool air inside.

With my present setup, I've been very careful to seal every connector so there are no leaks in that part of the system, so most of the remaining dangerous dust will be uncollected, airborne fine dust from the tools. The overhead filter will clear a lot of that. But there is a lot of noise in the shop from the blower.

I think the thing that will make the most difference is getting everything off the floor (other than tool stands on casters) so there is no place for dust to hide from the vacuum. I could also build a porch or deck in front of the shed and pull the biggest dust producers (sliding miter, sander) outside when I need them--Oh my gosh, another project. :dance3:

Between the powered respirator mask, ear muff noise protection, a sweat band and my glasses, I am well protected, but look a lot like a creature from outer space.

Another positive to all this is seeing a number of interesting projects in the near future.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've been considering doing the same thing for the same reasons.


It took one day, about $50 bucks for material, filter and hardware. The increase in air flow is very noticeable.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm reviving this thread because the idea of enclosing the DC and running filtered and refiltered air back into the shop is really appealing. Given my existing outside location, I think enclosure is a very practical way to go. And keeping the heated/AC air inside is appealing. 

I made a ceiling mounted fan with filters that have a metal holder for a 20x20 filters. I can recycle that holder into the shop wall so it will be easy to change filters. I think the vent will let in a little more noise, but the tradeoff would be worth it. As quiet as it is now, I can see myself forgetting to turn it off.

Enclosure and recirculation was Stick's suggestion and I'd completely forgotten about it. So this thread deserves re-reading.


----------



## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

From reading the various links and tech articles published and shown in several discussions here, my take away are these: 

1) The deadly dust is VERY small, typically invisible, and stirred up easily by walking in the shop, etc.
2) Venting the D/C outside is the only smart solution; this is what industry has been doing for generations, because it is effective. The small dust is immediately neutralized and eventually dropped to the ground once it attaches itself to water molecules, so the danger is mitigated.
3) Trying to filter down to the micron levels with the D/C in the same space and related necessary air flow requirements is unattainable within both reasonable budgets and machinery /space required for a home shop.
4) The argument about heating and cooling losses are irrelevant in the context of this conversation IMO. Much easier to deal with that than to continue to inhale poisons. I live in Canada and am forced to heat my partially insulated garage with electric heat all winter, adds about $100/month to the bill, but ask me if that changes anything. In summer I sweat my balls off, but cooling fans help, altho that is obviously only good if the place is clean.
5) Wearing a respirator is obviously paramount, but impractical, and no one is going to religiously do it, especially since it adds to fogging of safety glasses etc.

My current small 2.5" D/C build is going to get fired up today - I have decided to either run the shop vac outside of the garage (best solution) or at least vent it outside (not so good, but better than running inside). Once this is rolling, and the car gets some attention, I will connect the 4/5" D/C located in the shed and see how this all goes. Will likely need to build/cut in a larger vent intake window so there is crossflow to balance the outlet suction. Planning on running a slightly open permanent intake so the D/C can clean the air constantly. Open garage door may be the solution in the beginning.


----------



## Steve Pack (Jan 1, 2014)

I vent my DC outside thru the shop wall with adjustable 90 degree duct ell. I use a cyclone separator mounted on 32 gal metal trash can. before the DC motor /impeller which I mounted on a shelf mad for it on the wall. It is up high so I did not lose floor space. and let what gets by blows out of the shop, what a difference. My shop is heated and cooled by a large window mount AC that heats ( I cut hole in wall framed it with trim), I have not noticed any loss of heating and cooling. Good Luck.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Dust collector lives out side. I used to crack the door and run the hose underneath, but on more than one occasion the door crushed the hose when I pushed the wrong button on the wall. Now I use a semi-permanent solution. For the months I am home, I raise the garage door 4 inches on rigid foam insulation, with just enough gap for the hose to go under. It's far from perfect, but it has stayed like that for 2 months at a time without any water making it inside during the nasty weather. When I go away, just disconnect and close the door all the way. I would love to take it out the side of the garage, but I am really not interested in putting a 4 inch hole through a block wall.... I have thought about taking one panel out of the door and hard piping it through the door, but I am sure one of us would open the door with the hose attached.


----------



## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I have an overhead air filtration unit for the smalls inside.... DC Flex hose runs from tool to port through wall to Separator outside to DC outside to recently added 5 micron bag. One 6 hp shop vac at the Miter Saw Stand accompanies the DC another 6 hp shop vac is for Router and ROS and Pocket Holes


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

I would like to move my DC out of the shop but here in the PNW i’m Concerned about the damp. I have an unheated outbuilding about 2’ away that could house It. Has anyone tried this, Herb possibly.


----------



## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

I have struggled with dust in the shop for years. Also had a woodworking friend that just died from lung cancer. His shop with a total waste with dust.

I purchased a Dylos DC1100 dust monitor that runs all the time. It is located in the center of my work space. It generally shows very low numbers. But occasionally when I empty the dust collection bags and re-install them the monitor goes way up. I shut off the equipment and leave the shop for 1/2 hour or so. I have two filtration systems suspended from the ceiling running. Afterwards I will make sure there are no holes in the bags and they were installed properly. I would never run any equipment without the monitor running. I can see the numbers as I run the thickness planer, tablesaw and sander.

Malcolm / Kentucky USA


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I decided to upgrade one of my DC chip collectors with a Super Dust Deputy. Turns out they are packaging the 4 inch model with a fiber drum, which is too small to suit me, and I already have them. Emailed a request to sell just the SDD unit without the drum. Hopefully they will respond and I'll share. They want an additional $50 for the small drum, and I think you must buy a lid for their larger drum, which is bigger than I want. Humm. Unnecessary obstacles in the way of getting the DC setup you want.


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I have a Shop Vac with a DD hooked to it. Also, a broom and dustpan get a lot of use. My filtration system is a box fan with a pleated furnace filter. I wear a dust mask for turning and sanding. I have a respirator but can't wear it- throws my glasses out of focus and gives me headaches and dizzy spells. As for a DC, don't have room for it as my shop is so small, I have to go out into the basement to change my mind.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Still mulling over choices on the Super Dust Deputy. The HF unit's input is 4 inch, the Super Dust Deputy 5 inch is $169. I would need to put reducers on the intake and output ports, and I wonder just what impact the expansion and reductin effect would be. No reply from Oneida yet on the 4 inch model without a drum. Very odd and gimmicky policy.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

The $30 trashcan lid separator has been doing surprisingly well for all these years. I have it on a 30 gallon trash can, but I think it would fit some larger cans as well. The bottom collector bag on the DC shows almost nothing in it ever, unless I don't empty the can soon enough.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

No answer yet on the 4 inch model, so I think I'll do the $170 5 inch version. I think I'll just re-use my 30 gallon fiber drums. They have holes in them already, so I'll have to use some BB to make a cover and attach the metal lid to it with lots of sealer. I'm also going to use a bit of Lexan and make a peek hole to check on dust levels.


----------



## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

> The HF unit's input is 4 inch, the Super Dust Deputy 5 inch is $169


The HF has a 5" input, when you remove the dual 4" adapters.


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

JFPNCM said:


> I would like to move my DC out of the shop but here in the PNW i’m Concerned about the damp. I have an unheated outbuilding about 2’ away that could house It. Has anyone tried this, Herb possibly.


Jon, I enclosed the foyer into my shop and sound proofed it. That is where the DC unit resides it has a return air grill into the shop up near the ceiling. Where I live I can't exhaust thu the wall into the open air. 
I did find out that the 3hp motor/fan unit does generate heat in the winter time.

Herb


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks Herb, very helpful. Now if I can just avoid analysis paralysis I might get something done on this.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

DesertRatTom said:


> No answer yet on the 4 inch model, so I think I'll do the $170 5 inch version. I think I'll just re-use my 30 gallon fiber drums. They have holes in them already, so I'll have to use some BB to make a cover and attach the metal lid to it with lots of sealer. I'm also going to use a bit of Lexan and make a peek hole to check on dust levels.


Just a thought on why they want to sell the drum with the Super Dust Deputy -
It's likely their shipping container for the Dust Deputy, so it's well protected and they save packaging.

Charley


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Finally got an answer from Oneida. The 4 inch model only comes with the piss ant 15 gallon bucket (too small to call a tub or barrel). So I'm going to go for the 5 inch model, which has a 5 inch intake and 6 inch outflow. Going to use metal pipe from HD to hook it up to the 5 inch input of the HF DC. 

I'll reuse the 30 gallon fiber drums I have now, but will have to cut a bb ply top since the existing lock on tops have two off-center holes for the Rockler Dust Right connectors. At lease it will make it nice and rigid. I think the Super Dust Deputy wants to sit centered on the drum. 

Interesting that they want to force the $220 unit down my craw, so I wind up with the $170 dollar unit shipped free from Amazon. I'm not looking forward to fiddling with more mixed brands of connectors. We have 3 days of possible rain coming up, probably light showers at most. So I'll probably put off enclosing the breezeway where the HF unit sits. If I turn the DC the other way around, the duct runs will be shorter and fairly straight. I see a lot of aluminum type duct tape in my near future. 

Not sure where I'll store my 16 ft extension ladder now, I liked having it out of the sun in that breezeway. More carpentry projects ahead, I think. 

The biggest dust offender in my shop by far is the sliding miter. I'm thinking of building a nice flat porch outside the front of the shop, level with the opening, where I can pull the miter and the sander outside for use. I can just let the dust fly that way and keep it out of the shop. My breathing problems (not COPD) have me wanting to get those rascals out of there. Everything else has pretty good dust collection.

One other thing I've been thinking about is using the T track on the front of the router fence to mount what looks like a safety shield, but is connected to the DC hose. That would pull the dust straight up off the bit most of the time. That would produce a really strong up flow of a high volume of air. Any of you folks have any thoughts on this idea? Drawing is a side view.


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

That might get some dust, but some is still going to shoot out the sides.

You could even add a brush skirt or clear skirt to catch even more of the dust, but that would impair your visibility a bit. Probably at the point of diminishing returns......


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Expecting arrival of the Super Dust Deputy (SDD) today. There isn't much solid information about inside and outside dimensions for the SDD and adapter sizes. The Amazon recommended reducer does not fit, but the Rockler dust rite adapters may, but I'm going to carefully check it out before I spend any money. I haven't decided for sure, but I'm thinking of going with Galvanized pipe from the SDD to HF unit. The problem again is that the 5 inch opening on the HF unit doesn't seem to fit anything else exactly. So I'm going to do some exact measuring and try to use standard galvanized pipe and fittings. 

I really liked Stick's suggestion to recycle the filtered output of the HD/Wynn filter back into the shop. So I plan to do that and put a couple of filters in the return to eliminate any wandering dust. I will also have to enclose the breezeway with doors on each end and sealed as well as I can. I'll also cover the small gaps between the 2x floor in the breezeway with linoleum, to seal it and make it easier to clean up. Need to keep the AC/heated air in the space, so I may also insulate the ends as well, which will bean thick doors.

At any rate, I promise to post measurements, part numbers, pictures in a new topic. In some ways, I'm not looking forward to getting those fittings right, I have a box of expensive DC parts that don't fit anything. I have a couple of rolls of aluminum duct tape standing by.


----------



## Sominus (Oct 4, 2012)

The last entry to this thread is a couple months old, but I'll chime in anyway since this is germaine to the larger discussion and, likely, something that everyone at some point in time will need to address.

I have become increasingly aware over the past few years (especially with my career change) of the cumulative effects of dust/smoke damage to the lungs. Now that I'm in my 50s, I think I've played Russian Roulette long enough that, if I want to avoid COPD or other such hazards, I need to be more careful. 

I have also become more active in my woodworking since settling into the new career/job as well as my kids growing and moving on to their own lives. I noticed that, after a particularly aggressive woodworking session, I would end up sneezing/coughing for a significant period of time after I closed down the shop and cleaned myself up. The dust was a problem. I was covered in it and had been breathing it in.

Well, the external "big" dust is one thing: Wear an apron, wear a mask (I got an RZ mask). But even still, there was still dust EVERYWHERE.

My original DC was a HF 110v unit, no mods. This was, in the parlance of advanced dust collection and filtration experts, "piss poor". After the collection power of this unit became effectively nil, I looked into the wisdom of "the google" and found "the modifications" which I will not discuss here in depth since everyone knows them already or they can read about them in the 4000+ references that are easily findable with a search. Fine (and not so fine) dust was, frankly everywhere. The unit by itself was mediocre at picking up "wood chips and shavings", but ... Well.. Not good at anything else.

I tried the dust deputy solution with a Wynn 13F230NANO filter. I did NOT do the impeller upgrade. [I felt like, frankly, I was throwing good money at a bad machine with what I had done already (for some folk, this HF machine is fine. I'm not one of those folks).] Performance was better, dust capture was somewhat improved, but still not acceptable by the standards I was trying to reach. Fine (and not-so-fine) dust from the machines was still a problem because the vacuum power of the HF unit for what I was trying to accomplish just wasn't there. 

You may ask why didn't I do the impeller upgrade and squeeze a little more out of the already frankenstein-inspired modified HF unit? My theory is that for the money I invested in the machine and associated upgrades to get a mediocre solution, I could find something for about the same money that would actually perform. I also do not subscribe to the "sunk cost theorem". In another sense, why try to solve a problem (with multiple, incremental changes to a product not designed to do what I needed) that has already been solved? 

Enter: the Grizzly G0440. $600 on Craigslist. 100 hours or so on the machine. Squeaky clean. I am using the Wynn 13F230NANO filter (230 s.f. of MERV 15 surface area) on it instead of the supplied filter (90 s.f. of MERV 9-10 filtration) which greatly reduces the fine dust return to the shop and greatly increases the machine's ability to "breathe". This unit will be in an enclosed room with extra filtration on venting. 

The G0440 is a significant upgrade performance-wise from anything the HF unit can provide and pretty much eliminates the "poor vacuum" issues that I was having. The first test of the machine on my saw caused a bit of a stir -- it pulled dust from places I didn't know could have dust in them! I tried running the machine just to filter air and noticed after a few minutes that the particulates seemed to be down. I do not have a particulate counter, so cannot provide objective data. However, I wasn't sneezing and coughing anymore and the "smell" of dust in the air was gone.

This (the new DC) isn't a solution in and of itself. There are many components to managing the problem (e.g. face mask, adequate ventilation, adequate filtration of particulates), but the dust collector is potentially the first issue to be addressed in a shop when it comes to dust management and air quality. If you don't have adequate LARGE dust collection, then you definitely do not have adequate SMALL/FINE dust filtration.

I am NOT trying to crap on the HF unit. As I stated, for many folks, this unit is fine for their needs and will perform. It is inexpensive and easily managed. Larger units are more difficult to deal with in a small shop (power, space, ducting).

YMMV, some settling may occur during shipment, get your parents to help you with assembly, don't run with scissors, always eat your vegetables.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That is the problem with the cheap units is that they merely redistribute the fine dust as mine does and up north having it on the outside of the shop is not an option. I suspect that we'll see DCs go through some major improvements in the future probably spurred on by agencies like OSHA and the Worker's Compensation Boards. Cheap units like the HF will probably still be available but will come with a disclaimer attached. There was a time when no one would have thought that you wouldn't be able to buy packaged food that doesn't have how much fat, sugar, etc is in it.


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Since this string was published, I've followed Stick's recommendation with a shop modification. There was about a 4 ft space between my shop/shed and my office/shed. I covered it, put in a floor, covered the floor with linoleum and built doors on each end. In other words created an air tight chamber, that I can open up if needed. 

The DC and the the Super Dust Deputy went inside. The SDD sits on the 30 gallon chip collector. The 4 inch hose inside moves from machine to machine, including the table saw, and that terminates in a Rockler through the wall 4 inch connector. Outside, in the chamber, the sawdust is sucked into the SDD, and almost all the dust and chips fall into the fiber drum. A 4 inch connector on top of the SDD, goes into the HF unit, then the air is filtered and exits through the Wynn filter. 

I cut a hole for a return of air into the shop. to preserve temperature there. The return hole has a 20x20 filter so the returned air is very clean. Even with all that, I also have a WEN air filtering unit hanging from the ceiling that runs for 1,2 4 hours on a timer and slowly removes all the smallest particles.

The final tune up was arranging the parts so I could minimize bends in hoses for greater air flow.

Pix shows all but the entire setup, you can see the 20x20 filter box in the wall at upper right. The long hose has been shortened to about 18 inches since this picture was taken. Note the linoleum on the floor, which keeps air from escaping there.nnn

The challenge was getting the structure squared for the doors, both shed walls are not parallel to each other, but I finaly got it squared up.


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Well done Tom.


----------

