# First time using red oak, how do I stain?



## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

I've done my first engraving with red oak (any hardwood actually), and i'm not sure how to stain/finish the project.

Here is the piece:











I'd like to make the grain and color pop and bring out their richness. I figure i'll do a top coat poly or shellac to give it a satin sheen. Just not sure on how to stain it with the nooks and crannies of the inset text.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

I don't have any finishing advice but I'd like to compliment you on a very nice sign. Good job!


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Dick Willis put me onto a stain called Behlen, I think that is how you spell it, I used in on Cherry to get the sap wood to match the rest of the wood and it worked well. Dick has implied that it would work well on red oak. Maybe Dick will see this thread and comment on it, or another member will have had some experience with it or another stain.

You sure do have every reason to be very proud of the project that you attached the picture of to this thread. Good job.

Jerry


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks guys! Pretty cool what you can do with a Dremel and the right bits 

I think what i'm going to try is either gel stain, or regular, and wipe it on. Let is get into the inset areas, then wipe off and sand down the top layer to give each level a different look. Perhaps that will be enough to make it 'pop'. Now the question... what color stain...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Zach, with Red Oak I haven't been happy with the stains I've used so I finish with a clear coat and call it done. With the great work you've done on the carving use some scrap oak for sampling the look you will get. 

Have you thought about burning the letters with a wood burning tool? With your steady hand and a couple of bits it could be the pop you are looking for. 

Great job on the carving BTW


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

One of the problems with oak is the porosity of the dark grain. Stain will settle in there and produce an uneven look sometimes. A lot of people use a filler to fill these pores and achieve a more uniform look. I would do a test piece with some engraving to see how you will like the end result. Some kind of sealer might be in order to smooth out the finish. Some experimentation is in order I think.


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## mark greenbaum (Sep 26, 2010)

I would paint the lettering with black gloss paint, carefully, and if any goes on top surface use a flat board with sandpaper adhered to it to level it out. After that black has cured go over it the rest with whatever stain you like. Test on on a scrap to make sure the paint doesn't run. That will really make the lettering (fine job by the way) POP.


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

I took a chance on a General Finish Gel Stain (Candlelight) on a red oak trunk and had good luck. It did highlight the grain without getting overly dark. I have used Polyshades before, (they are both stain/poly combinations) but this was something different. The format (gel) allows you to tweak the color depth like you would with a stain.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Dennis made a great point about porosity. Oak has a straw like wood grain... in fact you can take a stick of oak, put one end in water then blow on the other end and see bubbles. If you use a stain that is thin it could travel down the straw like structure of the wood and appear somewhere else. If you use ink to color the letters remember that most ink is alcohol based, so if you put shellac over that it will bleed the ink also. You could use ink than after its dry spray lacquer over it.


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## TrevortdogR (Feb 11, 2013)

100% tung oil mixed with citrus solvent would make that beautifull, the only thing with 100% tung oil is it can take 2 weeks for it to fully cure.

Great work on the sign!


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Test the "gel" type stains. With the lowered letters you could have a problem with leveling it out in the recessed areas. Gel works better on a flat surface. One comment about porosity. Red Oak is like soda straws as mentioned but White Oak is not. (just as information). I would use a sealer prior to using *any* finish on Red Oak to avoid a "patchy" look. Nice work on the sign.


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

Thank you everyone for the input!

Sound like staining, letting it get into the recessed area, and sanding the top to create contrast is the way i'd like to go.

I didn't realize that Red Oak is like a straw.

Question - Do i get a 'sealer' or a 'conditioner'? I'm new to woodworking and am trying to learning these differences, so any products would help so i know what to look for.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Howdy Zach, as Jerry mentioned the Behlen Solar Lux stains/ dyes are better suited for red oak. Because they are a dye and dry in just minutes and not an oil based stain, they do not have the problem of wicking as red oak normally does. Also they do not fade over time or in direct sunlight, like many stains do. Each coat you apply will turn one shade darker until the desired shade is reached. On my last big project ( a complete kitchen redo in red oak) I used a mixture of walnut and cherry to achieve the desired shade and then added a wipe on cherry stain before finishing. I do not like using wood fillers of any kind period... This dye does not have the problems associated with oil type stains, in that it coats very evenly (no blotching) and really highlights the grain of the wood. I love how it works. I do not use sealers, I prefer to use a thinned coat of the final finish to do the sealing. I looked for the exact video on red oak but these are the best I could find. 

A word of advice stay away from Minwax stain. They now seal the wood as you stain, which means additional coats will not change the color at all. Once you apply it your stuck with you got. Regular oil stain does not do that, as each coat you apply will darken to the next shade. If you want to lighten you just wipe it down with a rag soaked with mineral spirits.

These same techniques work with any type of wood. But always try on scrap first to make sure you will be satisfied with the end result. I hope this helps.

Behlen stain is available from Woodcraft @ 

Search for Woodworking Supplies at Woodcraft.com

How To Finish Walnut for Great Color in Woodworking Projects - YouTube 

Behlen Solar-Lux

Behlen Dyes Presented by Woodcraft - YouTube

Dick


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Our club actually cut short pieces of Red Oak for a bunch of kids to use as bubble blowers ( the kind you use with soapy water). That is how porous it is.


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

I had no idea the wood was that porous. If anyone else is interested, I found a very informative page on this very thing. I know I learned alot: Distinguishing Red and White Oak | The Wood Database


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## Rick Turner (Sep 12, 2009)

Why stain it at all? I got so tired of customers asking for "Watco Walnut" on red oak for kitchens back in the day...it kept reminding me of smearing baby poop on nice wood. Folks want the look of aged wood instantly, and it never looks right to me unless it's done really carefully. With oak, it always seems like an attempt to get red oak to look like fumed white oak. It doesn't. 

If I stain, I use Behlen's NGR stains or metal acid dyes. 

Red oak looks just fine done with shellac or tung oil, or try Waterlox...looks great, protects well, and it's easy. They sell it as an oil, but it's really a "long oil varnish".


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## Fred615 (Jun 25, 2010)

Zach,

You might try a test piece using Minwax Conditioner. I haven't used it on red oak, but it works pretty well on cherry and pine. It is designed to keep end grain from getting too dark and reducing the contrast on the long grain.


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## stoneandtimber (Dec 21, 2010)

I have success with text doing a seal over the oak with clear poly then when COMPLETELY dry spray the text with your chosen color. Allow that to COMPLETELY dry (24 hours) then either send it through your sander or secure it to your work bench and use your scraper to remove everything except what is into the text. Block sand the surface down to 320 and use coats of clear until you are satisfied. The poly seal keeps the spray into the text from soaking into the grain and it can successfully be scraped down to bare wood again leaving the text the color you want. Completely dry between operations is the key.


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## bentbrent123 (Oct 23, 2011)

*more on your idea*



mgdesigns said:


> I would paint the lettering with black gloss paint, carefully, and if any goes on top surface use a flat board with sandpaper adhered to it to level it out. After that black has cured go over it the rest with whatever stain you like. Test on on a scrap to make sure the paint doesn't run. That will really make the lettering (fine job by the way) POP.


I went to the State Fair once and spent about a half hour watching the sign maker at his kiosk. Once he had routed the sign, he spray painted it black, but any color would do, depending on your preference. Then after allowing it a moment to dry, he used a hand-held planer to remove the top layer with the paint, leaving the letters painted. This was much faster than what you suggest, by sanding. With oak, I think that would be a much better idea, because the dark grain on oak is a bit lower than the other, and would require a lot of sanding. Of course you can always sand it afterward for a smoother finish. I generally use a polyurethane finish over my oak projects. I like the natural color of oak, and have found that the polyurethane accentuates the grain difference very well and makes it 'pop'.


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## gwizz (Mar 3, 2012)

I second the Tung Oil option, it is a wonderful rich finish for Oak and if you use the polymerized Tung Oil ( that simply means heated to a high temp and cooled and pkg'g which changes it's application issues ) it will dry quicker, rub it on a few times and you will be amazed at the finish. next time you use Oak try it out you'll be glad you did


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

Some great finishing ideas there, thanks guys!

If using Tung Oil, would 'need' to put a coat of poly on top of that? Or is Tung Oil a final stage 'protectant/sealer' as well?


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## espookid (Jan 2, 2012)

as a side point about the grain in oak ,an old friend of mine used to apply pea soup powder to fill the grain .It was available as a packet mix and he would wet it with cold water and rub it in ,leave to dry and wipe of the surplus


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## Lanfearh (Oct 26, 2013)

Zach,
First of all, that's a very nice engraving and you should be proud of it. Because of that, my first advice is to prepare some practice pieces so your first attempt at staining is not on that beautiful piece.

Red Oak has a lot of possibilities for stain and finish. Being a open grain wood, you may want to fill the grain before finishing with plain or colored filler. Given your engraving, you will have to do this carefully and may take some time to clean out the cut areas, but it is necessary if you want a smooth finish. 

If open grain is OK, then you can use a prepared stain or tinted oil finish (I like Watco, but it can bleed out of the pores on an open grain and requires repeated wiping for about a day or so.) 

You didn't mention what color you want, but you can also use dyes; which I really like if I want a stunning color. Look in woodworking catalogs or Google 'wood dye' to see what's available - there are many choices. You can also check the Big Box stores to look at what stains are available locally or use Google again.

As to a final finish; you can use a number of applications of an oil finish and sand each one with successively fine grit paper and they will get a nice gloss after 5 + coats, but with a deep, rich patina that you don't get with varnish.

If you do go with varnish, I'd use a spray can of polyurethane and lots of light coats. Sand carefully with 400 grit after the first couple of coats so you don't sand off the stain (it does not soak in deeply, so be careful especially on sharp edges).

Sorry about all the options; but Oak is a favorite and has many, many neat things (check Google again). I've seen pores filled with silver paste; have done ammonia fuming (fantastic, but takes time) and used homemade 'reactive stain' made with nails or steel wool soaked in vinegar for a pure black finish (iron reacts with the tannic acid to form a unique beautiful black finish). However, with your piece and all the options the important thing is to practice on some samples - don't risk your work! Good luck, H


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## gwizz (Mar 3, 2012)

You don’t need anything over tung it leaves a great finish that lets you feel the wood. If you thin it down a lot which applying it the finish will be relatively flat and if you don’t it will be satin. There are people out there that rub it on and buff it and it glossy but I’ve never tried to get it glossy. I have Oak edging on my computer desk that has stood up for 13 years taking lots of punishment and still looks great. I not a finish expert so if I can get a nice finish anyone can.


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## tmelch (Nov 8, 2013)

zm15, I just finished up a red oak altar for a church and there was quite a bit of carving involved. Also used this same finish on all the red oak window assemblies, cornice, crown, and other trim. It is simply gorgeous with lots of depth. Here it is, is not that complicated either. I used General Finishes water based product, all very easy to use.

1. Sand to 180. Apply with brush or rag 50/50 mix of GF amber dye stain and brown mahogany dye stain. Sand with 00 Scotchbrite when dry.
2. Apply GF walnut stain. Sand with 00 Scotchbrite when dry. Let dry overnight.
3. Brush on a 1.5# cut of Zinsser wax free shellac. You can get it any woodworking store. Don't get it at HD as it's not wax free. Sand with 0000 Scotchbrite.
4. Couple of topcoats with High Performance gloss, semi-gloss, or satin, your preference, sanding with 0000 between coats.

The color will pop with the shellac on top of the dye. It is amazing. Good luck!


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

Thanks guys! Some great tips there, appreciate it.


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## TrevortdogR (Feb 11, 2013)

I got my 100% tung oil from *the real milk paint co.* along with their citrus solvent for mixing 1-1 for better penetration into wood and accelerating the drying time. 
Wood Finishes | Tung Oil | Real Milk Paint ®


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## TrevortdogR (Feb 11, 2013)

Here are a couple of side tables I made from walnut & maple using tung oil
Since I'm not a wood expert, more of a beginner I see some imperfections but I did my best with the limited skills I have. 

1st pic is unfinished, all the rest are have the tung oil on them.


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## zm15 (Dec 16, 2013)

That table looks great Trevor! nicely done. I indeed need to try some tung oil.


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## TrevortdogR (Feb 11, 2013)

zm15 said:


> That table looks great Trevor! nicely done. I indeed need to try some tung oil.



Thanks!


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