# PICTURE FRAME ADVICE



## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

Hello, just joined today! Glad I found this forum. 
I have had a look around for advice on a particular simple frame I am about to make
The frame is a replica from a film, it needs to be reasonably accurate from a not particularly good photo!
Does anyone know where to look, for a bit that would produce this shape??


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

welcome to the forum, Rich - I am kinda new here myself.
what tools do you have access to ?
if that was my project, I would make all the cuts on a table saw.
what size will the frame be? are you going to make just one or a hundred ?
why the need for such accuracy in this project ? especially when you have a poor example to go by. (and, who will judge it without having something to compare it to?).
this is the way I interpret your design, which is pretty straight forward cuts.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Rich.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Welcome aboard Rich. Not having any dimensions to work with I can see where you could use a router table and several bits to create this profile but I would say you'd need to do some experimenting. A chamfer bit could make the slanted cut depending on the angle and length and a rabbet bit for the others. This of course is still in my head so the outcome may vary.


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Welcome to the forum


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I made a frame very similar to this with the table saw as John suggested. I wasn't trying to copy anything so I just set the angle to whatever looked good. I made the frame out of a 2x4. I did a fancy edge on the inside only for looks but it would have been quicker just to leave it square. I always save a sample of what I cut in case I ever want to duplicate it.


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

John Smith_ said:


> welcome to the forum, Rich - I am kinda new here myself.
> what tools do you have access to ?
> if that was my project, I would make all the cuts on a table saw.
> what size will the frame be? are you going to make just one or a hundred ?
> ...


Hi John, thanks for the welcome! 
I have orders for 11, so will probably end up making about 25,
They will be about 9" long, I haven't analysed the film yet, but it looks about that size
The frame profile I have drawn is jus a best guess from the film still.
The film replica people analyse quite closely! then tell everyone else, then more orders come in... or not.
I have a small table saw, table router, and a large laser cutter.

I have just made twenty odd of another frame (below) but that was easy, as it was square profile and all I needed to do was to route the rebate for glass etc.

Hope this makes more sense!























John Smith_ said:


> welcome to the forum, Rich - I am kinda new here myself.
> what tools do you have access to ?
> if that was my project, I would make all the cuts on a table saw.
> what size will the frame be? are you going to make just one or a hundred ?
> ...


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

That sloping outside edge of your frame is just about what I am trying to do... only on the inside, I'll try what you and John suggests on the table saw, thanks!




mgmine said:


> I made a frame very similar to this with the table saw as John suggested. I wasn't trying to copy anything so I just set the angle to whatever looked good. I made the frame out of a 2x4. I did a fancy edge on the inside only for looks but it would have been quicker just to leave it square. I always save a sample of what I cut in case I ever want to duplicate it.


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

marecat3 said:


> Welcome to the forum



THANKS!


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## MYB506 (Dec 5, 2012)

Welcome to the forum Rich. I would do like John said, cut it on the table saw. I would cut the base section then cut a separate piece for the bevel and glue this on.


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

sreilly said:


> Welcome aboard Rich. Not having any dimensions to work with I can see where you could use a router table and several bits to create this profile but I would say you'd need to do some experimenting. A chamfer bit could make the slanted cut depending on the angle and length and a rabbet bit for the others. This of course is still in my head so the outcome may vary.


Yes, I was thinking it would take a couple of routers to get the main profile, although I was rather hoping, as I am new to routering, someone would come up with a magic bit that would do the outside in one go!


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Welcome to the forum. I would use the table saw and a router table with multiple bits. I have made many picture frames over time. Just make sure you cut all of the mouldings at the same time so the profiles match. I always make some extra pieces so incase you make a mistake.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I make frames for my wife's artwork. I made a frame with a similar profile and did it all with a table saw. I drew the profile on the end of a pine board I used, then used that to set blade height. Make enough stock for 20 frames, making one cut in each. The reset for the second cut. Repeat for a total of four cuts. Cut the face side first. If there is any warping in your stock, cut it off, Warped frame pieces don't fit together right.

If you're using pine, don't over sand because the soft parts will sand faster than the hard veins and it will look woody. I usually sand no finer than 220 grit, on a block that's flat. Use a sanding sealer. Although I occasionally use pine for frames, I prefer hard woods, and my best looking frames were made from Cherry or Maple.

The dimension of the picture determines frame size. The rabbet should be a fairly tight fit to the framed material. Glass just requires a slightly deeper rabbet. I can cut glass OK, but for 302=--


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

You could also use a raised panel bit but you would have to take a few passes so as not to overwork the router or bit.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Yes, a Shaker Style panel raising bit would cut the face shape quite well, if you really want to use a router and router table. The result would be cleaner this way, requiring less sanding, but the last time that I bought a Freud bit for this profile it cost me about $100. The rabbet for the glass can be cut with a straight bit or a mortising bit. Going with the router bits, you could get the shape desired in two passes with a router in a table, or 4 passes on a table saw using just a standard or glue line rip type blade. Feather boards would help maintain a smooth profile using either method. 

Charley


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

I'm still trying to understand "who" would watch for movie props and then actually want a replica of it?
and, only submit a clip shot and want someone to make the replica as accurately as possible.
and another "who" would they impress by saying: ohhhh I have a replica of the picture frame in such-and-such movie. you remember, THAT one !! oh yeah.
and - "how" did you find these people ??? and, how much moola do 'these people" pay for one ?
(maybe I need to get out more)


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

John Smith_ said:


> I'm still trying to understand "who" would watch for movie props and then actually want a replica of it?
> and, only submit a clip shot and want someone to make the replica as accurately as possible.
> and another "who" would they impress by saying: ohhhh I have a replica of the picture frame in such-and-such movie. you remember, THAT one !! oh yeah.
> and - "how" did you find these people ??? and, how much moola do 'these people" pay for one ?
> (maybe I need to get out more)


But if you get out more, I guess you should wear a mask. It amazes me how many people are into such things. In Japan, many of their pastimes are ephemeral, fan stuff, make believe. That may be because of the crowding there. But we're not crowded and more and more of our entertainments are electronic.


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

John Smith_ said:


> I'm still trying to understand "who" would watch for movie props and then actually want a replica of it?
> and, only submit a clip shot and want someone to make the replica as accurately as possible.
> and another "who" would they impress by saying: ohhhh I have a replica of the picture frame in such-and-such movie. you remember, THAT one !! oh yeah.
> and - "how" did you find these people ??? and, how much moola do 'these people" pay for one ?
> (maybe I need to get out more)


Hah! My exact thoughts John! When someone approached me asking if I could make a box for them and it needed to look like a box in a photo, I made him one then he came back to me saying he knew of a few more people who wants me to make one for them too.

I then asked what the significance of this box was, he replied, this box is a film prop replica and many people collect such things, this was news to me, eventually and somewhat reluctantly, he sent me a photo of his collection room and it looked like a museum! 

Lego Germany want to exhibit his collection when things get back to normal!

I have since found out the collectors of fake stuff are astonishingly prolific but don't really make their passions public... for obvious reasons!

Photo frames, small wooden shelf/filing units, door signs, plaques, are a few of the things I have made for them, I now enjoy the detective work and making these strange things for strange people!

Just about to start cutting an experimental frame on he table saw.


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

well well well now - that clears it all up.
I know the "groupies" of star trek and harry potter have no limits as to their collections.
glad it is working for you !!


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

DR Tom - I got my J&J vax 3 weeks ago but still don't have the confidence to let my guards down.
it may take years for any of us to be 100% back to normal

John


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## Grinaker (Apr 1, 2012)

A sharp eyed film aficionado might note that on the inner edge there's a rounded bead laying proud of the flat angled front surface. 

One might want to route the bead first before adding the angled cut to the front and rabbit on the back.


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## malb (Sep 15, 2008)

My first look suggested the bead on the inside as well. Might be a little more practical to consider building up the profile from separate pieces rather than trying to route it out of one piece, - rebated base section with separate bead and angled sections glued on and pinned in place from behind. 

Beaded section could be machined into base section before the rebate is machined, but would make the the base piece a three pass section, bead, then reduce thickness to base level for the foundation for the angled section, then rebate the back. Avoids glueing the bead accurately, but potentially complicates machining.

Depending on required finish, you would possibly need similar grain etc for all of the components, and to do a big batch you would need good long straight grained material which ever way you go, so you can make the moulding in long lengths and cut segments to length to ensure best match at the mitre joints. Assembling individual segments will make it hard to get a decent profile match at the mitres.

Commercially, the profile would probably be made in a single pass through a spindle moulder or similar with a custom set of cutters that do everything except the rebate (i.e. forms the entire profile shape, width and thickness in a single pass) in lengths of 8-12 feet. The rebate would be a separate pass.

Hope this helps explain the methodology.


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## Rich Blaker (Apr 25, 2021)

Grinaker said:


> A sharp eyed film aficionado might note that on the inner edge there's a rounded bead laying proud of the flat angled front surface.
> 
> One might want to route the bead first before adding the angled cut to the front and rabbit on the back.
> View attachment 398459
> View attachment 398459


Oh yes, that is a rounded bead, I guess I was hoping it wasn't! Oh well, a bit more work! Still, I like a challenge.
My first thoughts of, "Oh that'll be easy" are clearly wrong!!


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Maggi61


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

John Smith_ said:


> DR Tom - I got my J&J vax 3 weeks ago but still don't have the confidence to let my guards down.
> it may take years for any of us to be 100% back to normal
> 
> John


I think you're right about it taking some time to get fully back to normal, Our senior club shut down a little more than a year ago, and we're about to start up again this coming week. But I think that many people are hungry for human contact. My son in law and his father both died from the covid infection a few weeks ago, so I think families are wanting to get together. 

I think the virus was an experiment by the Chinese in germ warfare, and when you look at the damage it did in deaths, and to the economy, I'd say we ought never to do any business with that rogue nation.


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## Lupearn (Nov 8, 2021)

The frame you just showed us is pretty unique but there are lots of places or sites you can look for that may help you. It's good that you know what design you want, this will ease your work. You can try to shop here frameshop.com.au, this is the site I usually use to create my custom frame. What I like most is that here you can choose everything format, size, material, and even backing information. You can find them on social media or contact them directly if you think this might be what you need.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Lupearn


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thought I'd try for a little more proportional profile. The edge of the frame is actually quite narrow. Here's my take on aproximate sizes, showing matte and backer, plus pin to hold pix, matte and backer in place. Also suggests cut methods. Not indicated, but I'd cut the rebate with a rabbiting bit, but it would be my very last cut. I'd also cut it in hardwood, but straight grain quarter sawn. Corners glued only will be weak, so I'd likely add a 1/8th spline in each corner to reinforce it.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I would try a built-up section, as that's probably the best way to get a nice crisp corner in the junction between the angle and the end of the bead. See the attached sketch - one way to get the molding using straightforward cuts on the table saw and a beading bit on the router table. Not knowing the finished size of the parts, I'd look at using a 1/4" thick strip that's wider than 2X the part, beading both edges and then ripping the strip to finished width - gets your fingers away from that nasty bit.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

WElcome to the forum @Lupearn


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## Hatrabyn (4 mo ago)

I've never been interested in frames, but after this topic, I'll start! You talk so interestingly about how to cut and frame frames correctly, it's intriguing. A few years ago, I tried my hand at photography, and I believe that since I have a few decent shots that could be shown to people. I ordered print and frame from special companies several times, but I never thought I could do it myself. Although, I have repeatedly carved wooden toys for my son. Sometimes simple ideas take effort to find a place in my head, haha.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, @Hatrabyn


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Hatrabyn


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi @Hatrabyn Hope you have tried making a frame by now. The key is getting the 45 degree cut exactly 45. That and getting the two pairs (top/bottom, left/right sides) exactly the same lengths. I have a special tool called a miter trimmer that does the final cut, but I get a pretty nice cut with this thing, an Incra 1000 miter gauge.









Notice the long, adjustable arm with the red stop block. It's long enough for a pretty large frame. This one is $200 now on Amazon. My Laguna gauge is good, but not as accurate as the Incra.

Still, I cut the pieces about 1/8th long and trim off about 1/16th with my Grizzly Miter Trimmer, which my wife, the painter, bought for me. It is a very old tool, first introduced somewhere in the 1880s. Most frame shops have something like this. It is a sliding guillotine and it leaves a glass smooth, perfect cut. Looks like this:










I don't think the trimmer is really necessary, but I'm a fussbudget and my wife needs a lot of frames.

I have been thinking about popping for a set of yonaco bits for milling my own frame stock. Good quality stock is straight grained, no warps, or at least you cut off and toss the warped bits. Frames in hardwood always turn out nicer than soft stock. 

I also use these handy spring type clamps to hold glued corners tight and in alignment. Exact 45s make glueup much easier.









And to hold the painting in the frame, I found this handy "stapler" that inserts a steel tab in the edges of the frame. Easy to remove too.








These tools have made production of picture frames much easier.


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