# Craftsman 17543 2hp Fixed & Plunge Combo Follow Up



## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

Hi guys, new to the forum and woodworking. I thought I would post an FYI. 

I purchased the 17543 on Black Friday. I also bought the 3 year extended warranty with it. Well, after what I would consider moderate home/garage use on a variety of wood and no MDF etc the fine adjustment all but fell apart. It would not stay put for multiple cuts or even allow a proper setting. I did have a knowledgeable craftsman look at it and he said it was toast. 

OK, although there are a lot of similar problems mentioned on this site it might have been a bad unit so I went to Sears to exchange it. Well, come to find out Sears is fazing out its old style extended warranties on power tools. The only one available to me was a PurchaseProtect 3 year warranty. It was represented as a 3 year Craftsman replacement coverage. 

The way the new warranty works is if the product dies after the 90 day period you get a Sears gift card for the amount of your purchase minus the extended warranty cost and that is the end of it. The card is only good at Sears. You do not get any replacements and you have to buy again at what ever price the store is selling them at. 

Needless to say I was stunned. I am returning the router inside the 90 days no questions asked and buying something better. I did have a lot of fun with it and learned a great deal. I now know exactly what I need and will happily spend more than double the $79 I paid for the Craftsman for a better router. 

I am disappointed with Sears and Craftsman tools as they continue to slide downhill. Anybody seen any great deals out there in Bosch or PC etc?


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Hello and welcome, Rob
Thanks for sharing that. I have had Craftsman routers since 1965,66. Have had good tools, Sorry for the trouble. I don't know for sure, but it would seem to me that buying another tool, should not be to bad, If you get a replacement, you don't have a 
guarantee unless you pay again. I have also purchased some rebuilt tools. I found out from the rebuild co, that normally, they are covered for a full year at no cost. I bought a Roto-zip from a good supplier when it was still sold by the inventor, that after the third breakdown, which really made me drought the maker, I thought that they didn't build a decent product. They told me that if they have a bad supplier for a part on the unite, that fails a lot, the re builders will find a better supplier. I took a rebuilt, and i have had No problems with that at all. The Thing i am trying to say, A rebuilt will be tore down and a problematic part replaced, It will not have a 90 day warranter, but a 1 year. and after that time, if anything fails, they would replace. I am not telling you to do this at all. I would check out all possibilities. I believe that Rigid looks pretty good, and i can tell you that i haven't heard a lot of negative talk about them, Porter Cable i think can do a good job, and i would look at them again up close, and make your decision. Enjoy the forum


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks Dutchman,

The whole problem with Sears is they pay you off at sale price and force you to purchase at an inconvenient time (middle of a project) paying full list this time. You could start with a Black Friday special and wind up buying at full list twice as well as paying for another extended warranty every time. 

Generally most stores have a one year manufacturers warranty as well as a 30 to 90 day no questions asked return policy. Sears is one that does not because they masquerade as a manufacturer when they really are not. The Sears tools from the 60's and even 70's are a great deal different than the Chinese "stuff" they now sell as power tools. 

I did try a couple of refurbished tools and the first time CPO sent me a Makita saw that looked like it had been on a job site for a year. It even had a repaired chord. I can generally shop around and find a new one for about 20 to 30 percent over refurbished prices just about anytime and sometimes very close to refurb price. 

It is all a matter of paying your money and taking your chances. The store, refurbished, purchased manufacturer direct or anything else can get you a great tool or a nightmare. 

I just wanted to convey to the people Sears extended warranties are changing to something I believe to be very negative. They are only willing to replace the money you spent and not the tool.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Rob, I think I would be ticked off also, they took real money and gave ya searsbucks. Not a fair trade. 
I have studiously avoided Craftsman tools, not so much because of the tool but because of Sears cavalier customer attitude. And, your right, Sears has been mascarading as a manufacturer for years. 
I am a big fan of reconditioned/remanufactured tools though, I have gotten about half a dozen from CPO just in the last year. I have only had two problems with their products. One was a small bench grinder with a stripped hole in the right wheel guard to where it wouldn't hold the safety shield. They promptly shipped me a new guard after I allowed that I would rather fix it then go through the repacking hassle to return it. This morning I got a benchtop bandsaw with a broken foot. One phone call and a replacement foot is on the way. You are right on though, you should be able to get a recon for 50 to 70% of new. Used, I go 30 to 50%.
Hope things work out for you


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## jpr28056 (Jan 18, 2010)

I'm with you guys on the reconditioned tools. I bought a Dremel Multimax last fall and the switch went out on it. Called Dremel and they said it's got a one year warranty and they have 48 hour turn around. I had it back within a week and they even sent me a drywall blade. I really believe that these manufacturers really do a good job reconditioning these tools and have no problem buying them.


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

Most of the recons are selling for about 50% off a generally slightly inflated list price which nobody really moves anything at. They post those prices for the new items on their site knowing they won't sell any but it makes the refurb pricing look very appealing. Generally I see the best models of the high end stuff usually goes for about 50% off and only the Skill, B&D etc goes for 70% off. 

The box stores generally take about 20% off that MSRP with no sale happening. The online tool retailers usually take about 30% off. If you wait for a sale you can really get quite close to the refurb pricing on the good stuff. 

I am sure the refurb guys do a great job and CPO did take my Makita back with no problems. I picked up a couple of Hitachi tools lately. With their 5 year warranty they are quite appealing and get good reviews. They hit a price point above the Craftsman etc but below the Bosch, Milwaukee etc. Hitachi generally winds up just below PC but with a 5 year warranty. 

I will probably go Bosch 1617EVS or a PC combo if I can find the right deal. If not I will probably go Hitachi. I can get an M12VC combo for $162 shipped or just the fixed for $115 shipped.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Rob - I've got the Hitachi kit and it's a pretty good deal. Came with an extra sub-base and set of (steel) guide bushings. They don't have a collet lock so you need two wrenches to change bits. Not a big deal to me but some don't care for it. Thing I don't care for is there doesn't seem to be a dust collector available for the thing. Other than that, it is a nice little router. Haven't had any issues with it. 
If you want to consider a recon try here
Routers - Reconditioned Sales, Inc.
They seem to have the recon Hitachi kits on backorder right now but you can sign up for an e-mail alert for when they have them.
Haven't looked in awhile but CPO had the Bosch 1617 ESV recon for $170 (I think) a couple of weeks ago.


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks John,

How is the fine adjustment on the Hitachi? Is it accurate and does it stay put all the time? I can deal with slower bit changes, slower base changes and annoying things like that. I just want reliability and a fine adjustment that works real good. 

That is a darn tempting deal for the Hitachi combo at $115 shipped. The best new price I could find was $165. You just have to give up 4 years of warranty. Is the four years worth $50. I don't think so. I went ahead and put my email into them on it. 

The bosch deal is quite different. I found the Bosch 1617EVSPK new for $200 shipped. CPO wants to sell at $170 for a refurbished. The only person that would see that as a deal is someone who believes their $249 new selling price is their only other option. 

Those Bosch refurbs need to be about $135 to start to be competitive. Even that is still less than 30% off new. Nobody cares about some mindless MSRP. The good thing is Bosch only gives a 1 year warranty anyways so the warranties are the same new or refurb.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Rob. Fine adjustment on the Hitachi fixed base is the old turn-the-motor-in-the-base technology. Works ok and seems accurate. Is calibrated in 1/64". I'm comparing to my Freud which uses a dial, calibrated in 1/128", not sure there is a way to compare the two, I prefer the Freud although the Hitachi isn't at all difficult, very easy to set in fact. The plunge base uses a stop rod and 3-position rotating stop block. Both the Freud and Hitachi plunges use the same depth system and I think they both leave a lot to be desired. Of the ones I have looked at so far, I like the Ridgid and some others with a stop rod and microadjustable stop block. 
I do prefer the Hitachi plunge system where you release the stop lever to lock it in place as opposed to the Freud system of having to engage a lever to lock the plunge. I have had a couple of instances on the Freud where I hadn't engaged the plunge lock tightly enough and it slipped on me. Virtually can't happen on the Hitachi. 
Both routers are rated at 2-1/4 HP but the Freud has a 13 amp motor and the Hitachi only 11. You can notice a difference but I don't feel there is a substantial power differential. 
Just my .02, hope it helps


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

Hi John,

Thanks for the additional input. I may have to add the Rigid to the serious list. 

Those Hitachi refurbs are few and far between. The guy says they rarely see them anymore and they are very low on all routers in general. 

Well back to the drawing board.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Hate to hear about your run in or make that Sears trying to run you over......... I have the 317543 Plunge/Combo and so far it's done alright..... wish me luck!

I also have a small air compressor and a miter saw which are both Craftsman and except for the laser on the miter saw (I didn't use the laser any way) quit working...... all 3 of them have been worth the SALE PRICE money....... With Sears you have to watch their ads to know what is a real sale price...... I held out long enough to get a real deal from them.

Are they top of the line? NO but good Lord willing they last for a few more years to come.
I appreciate the heads up on Sears latest twist of their trade...... I have been cautious with them.... now I know who and what I'm dealing with


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

I do have some good cheap stuff too. I know it is somewhat luck of the draw. 

I have some Harbor Freight stuff that is bulletproof and saved me hundreds over anything comparative. On the other hand I have brought tools back to them in a basket after one evening. They never say a thing and are only two miles away so its not a big deal if they fail. 

I just think the fine adjustments on the routers are somewhat of an Achilles heel. I don't care if the switch dies or something. But if that fine adjustment wanders it will ruin some good pieces or a whole project. The router just does not seem like the place to cut corners anymore. I am not comfortable with a 90 day warranty and Sears does not have replacement warranties for them anymore.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It's become more common to refund the price of a sale on extended warranties. From TVs to fridges to tools. I really don't see the problem with it if you know what it is beforehand. I got the exact same kit and opted for the three year warranty as well.

It wasn't that big of a deal to me.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cocheseuga said:


> It's become more common to refund the price of a sale on extended warranties. From TVs to fridges to tools. I really don't see the problem with it if you know what it is beforehand. I got the exact same kit and opted for the three year warranty as well.
> 
> It wasn't that big of a deal to me.


Hi Chris - I can see two issues with it, and not much I can do with either. :bad:
1. You buy it on sale or otherwise reduced. It fails and the thing is no longer on sale so you need to repurchase at a price you would not pay otherwise. :bad:
2. You paid in moneys usable at virtually any outlet, internet or B&M but your refund is in terms of store credits, not usable anywhere else. :bad::bad::bad:


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

jschaben said:


> Hi Chris - I can see two issues with it, and not much I can do with either. :bad:
> 1. You buy it on sale or otherwise reduced. It fails and the thing is no longer on sale so you need to repurchase at a price you would not pay otherwise. :bad:
> 2. You paid in moneys usable at virtually any outlet, internet or B&M but your refund is in terms of store credits, not usable anywhere else. :bad::bad::bad:


Sale vs non-sale - it happens. It also can happen in reverse, which is very typical of tech purchases these days. You buy a plasma at $1200, it breaks, and your replacement is now $600. Some days you're the fly, and some days you're the windshield. While it would have been nice to get mine at a cheaper price up front, I bought it at full price - and thought it was worth so. So if it breaks and goes on sale, all the better for me.

As for the credit - sure, it can be inconvenient. Happened to me when I returned my Ryobi and couldn't get my Visa gift cards back. But it's Sears, Home Depot, Lowes...there's always something I need at these stores. The OP may not have the same view, but I could always find something at Sears even if I decided not to get the same tool. I'm sure it wouldn't be that great in the middle of a project, but it can happen.

Still - I view it as better than nothing.


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

There are a lot of problems with this type of "payoff" warranty. Basically they are pulling out of any semblance of backing the quality of the product. That is what the extended warranties are all about. You know you will have a working product for the time of the contract for one "buy in" price. All Sears does is refund your money and send the unit back to the OEM for full credit. The store has your money and they keep the extended warranty money to cover their handling costs. Sears can't lose.... but you can. 

With this current extended warranty you could buy a product for $79 and the extended warranty. In four months you could be buying it for $119 plus another extended warranty price. In another 5 or 6 months you could be buying it for $129 plus another extended warranty. 

The days of Sears selling re-branded Bosch routers etc is gone. You will not be buying quality power tools cheaper like LCD’s etc etc. The life cycle on a router is 5 to 10 times that of an LCD. You would die of old age waiting for new technology to make routers cheaper and just as good or better. There are lots of other reasons why routers don't fit that scenario. 

All LCD’s etc have the same inputs and outputs for accessories. Most routers are very proprietary for accessories so many people are stuck once they invest. This entire situation is so slanted towards the seller it is not worth the investment in my opinion. I really believe turning it in before 90 days and getting real dollars to move on is the smart move.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Difference in opinion, then. As I said, many other industries are going this way as well, including having to repurchase 'insurance.' Home Depot reserves the right to do the same thing for purchases under $300 in their 'replacement' plan if the original item isn't available. Lowes will replace it only once (under $200), and can also refund in the form of a gift card at their discretion.

Good or bad, this is going to become the norm. The consumer has the right to know up front, and can option in or out as they so choose. I think if you want an actual replacement warranty, one should go with the manufacturer, should they provide it.

At $119, I opted in. If I want to go with another router at that point, I will. And the $119 on a Sears card can buy me a lot of things that I need. But even at full price, I thought it was still a great deal and would probably just get it again.


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## austin870 (Nov 13, 2009)

I know things can work out perfectly sometimes and I respect a difference of opinion. 

Another challenge was my original purchase on Black Friday was eligible for the one year interest free on the Sears card. A subsequent purchase under the extended warranty now would not be. Because Sears washes their hands of the first purchase with their new style warranty there are "a lot" of challenges that can effect the buyer. 

I could see the same situation with Lowes and HD being different because their pricing is so much more stable. Sears is all over the place with sale pricing and additional incentives in a given year... or even month. 

I guess if you always buy at full list everything is pretty much a moot point, however I rarely do that at Sears.


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