# FIRE in the shop!!!



## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

Wow! What a morning! I want to pass this along so you guys will file it in the back of your minds. To make it short: was cleaning some metal pieces with OOOO steel wool and some light oil, somethimes very little oil. I was working under two small Halogen lights (which I hate) and all of a sudden I had a handfull of FIRE!!! Naturally first thing I tried to do was shake it OFF my hand, which resulted in my reflex action throwing a fireball right into some sawdust and scraps I had just swept up! Yikes! I got things under control but I'll tell you, if I had been around some oil rags, paper towels, etc.I might have been in REAL trouble.
You may or may not know that this fine steelwool OOOO or "four ought" is often used as an emergency fire starter. Today, take some and touch a match to it, just so you will know what it does.
My conclusion: very hot under those %^$#*% Halogen lights; lots of friction between metal and steelwool; light oil into the mix and POOF!!
Let's ALL keep it in mind. Okay, my little lecture is over.
Thank you for dropping by. Ha!!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the warning Birch, I use 0000 wire wool and from now on will take appropriate precautions. Glad it didn't turn into something really serious.


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## Doyle (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks Birch!!!!!!
I never thought of that being dangerous.
It could have been a bad situation. Did you suffer any burns?
Thanks again for the heads up and will keep this in mind.
Take care
Doyle


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Hey Birch, glad all is well and no one was hurt etc. 

Corey


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

nice way to dodge a bullet!
Safety is never an accident eh? I assume you have a small extinguisher in the shop?
It's easy to forget that the chemicals and materials we use are pretty dangerous. I share my workshop with my other "hobby" RC helicopters, which use Lithium polymer cells, do a google and you'll see why I have all my stuff in fire proof safes!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Birch

I'm glad you are ok and you didn't burn down the shop 

It's funny that you would post this,,,,The other day ACV (Member of the forum) wanted to know the best way to clean the rust off her jointer, she was going to used WD40 and some steel wool,,,and I suggested that see not use the WD40 and just used some 3 and 1 light machine oil....with a cleaning pad form the kitchen...( not a SOS pad)

The WD40 is flammable and it states that on the can but I don't recall if the 3 & 1 oil states that on the can or not,, but it is a petroleum base produuct so it maybe also...I suggested not to use the steel wool but use a Scotts-Brite pad that is a filber base item...

I hope see didn't start a fire also but she has not reposted...steel wool is just some steel filbers and will make sparks...

So to say it's best not to use anything that is a petroleum base produuct on your euipment...Johnsons Paste Wax works great for cleaning...by the way

Aging I'm glad you are OK... ,,,, burns can be nasty and take along time to heal... 







Birch said:


> Wow! What a morning! I want to pass this along so you guys will file it in the back of your minds. To make it short: was cleaning some metal pieces with OOOO steel wool and some light oil, somethimes very little oil. I was working under two small Halogen lights (which I hate) and all of a sudden I had a handfull of FIRE!!! Naturally first thing I tried to do was shake it OFF my hand, which resulted in my reflex action throwing a fireball right into some sawdust and scraps I had just swept up! Yikes! I got things under control but I'll tell you, if I had been around some oil rags, paper towels, etc.I might have been in REAL trouble.
> You may or may not know that this fine steelwool OOOO or "four ought" is often used as an emergency fire starter. Today, take some and touch a match to it, just so you will know what it does.
> My conclusion: very hot under those %^$#*% Halogen lights; lots of friction between metal and steelwool; light oil into the mix and POOF!!
> Let's ALL keep it in mind. Okay, my little lecture is over.
> Thank you for dropping by. Ha!!


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Birch,

WOW!

Glad you got it under control real fast!

I didn't know steel wool would do that!
Thank you for the information!


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## R-Man (May 28, 2006)

*steel wool*

Thanks Birch,
I had no ideal of this.,
R-Man


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## Birchwood (May 13, 2005)

A quick follow-up. I did not get burned much-nothing to fret about. Yes, I DO have an extinguisher in the shop-TWO of them in fact. The incident was just a reminder to me that things can sometimes go wrong very quickly, a lesson I have learned in several ways down through the years. Ya, gotta be prepared to act quickly! Ha! Am pleased to hear that the information about the flamability of fine steel wool is useful to some members. As I said; take a ball of 4-ought and touch a match to it. But do it outside fer cryin' out loud!! Ha!


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Wow Birch a wood workers worst nightmare. Who would have thought wow. Every wood worker should have a fire extingesher in their shop. I have mine handy hope I never have to use it. Happy that you weren't hurt and you got the darn thing out.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Here's another version of this: 

A friend left his cell phone charger plugged into the wall with the phone end of it lying on his bench (no cell phone). He then began using an area of the bench to clean some parts with steel wool. Soon after, he had fire all over the bench. Fortunately, he had a fire extinguisher and was able to put it out quickly. He remembers seeing a flash where the cell phone connector was laying, just before the whole bench caught fire and is convinced that some of the steel wool touched the connector to start the fire.

And another:

This guy never bothered to put covers on his electrical outlets. One day he was working on something that had a small spring in it. Somehow the spring poped free and flew right into the electric outlet box between the receptacle and the side of the box. The resulting flash set fire to the wall and the sawdust that was along the back edge of his bench. He too, was able to put the fire out quickly and was very lucky. 

These "close calls" keep me very vigilant about what I'm doing, and where I'm doing it, in my shop. They were both stupid and very negligent mistakes that could have burned down their shops and/or severly injured them.

Charley


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## a1tomo (Dec 3, 2008)

I spent ten or more years as a volunteer fireman. Heard all kinds of fire starting things, but never heard of this. Thanks for the info and warning.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Good info. I had no idea. I use steel wool a lot in the shop, sometimes with mineral spirits for cleaning. Maybe I'll change that habit.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

A very timely reminder that I currently don't have a fire extinguisher in my shed, that omission will soon be rectified.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Birch said:


> Wow! What a morning! I want to pass this along so you guys will file it in the back of your minds. To make it short: was cleaning some metal pieces with OOOO steel wool and some light oil, somethimes very little oil. I was working under two small Halogen lights (which I hate) and all of a sudden I had a handfull of FIRE!!! Naturally first thing I tried to do was shake it OFF my hand, which resulted in my reflex action throwing a fireball right into some sawdust and scraps I had just swept up! Yikes! I got things under control but I'll tell you, if I had been around some oil rags, paper towels, etc.I might have been in REAL trouble.
> You may or may not know that this fine steelwool OOOO or "four ought" is often used as an emergency fire starter. Today, take some and touch a match to it, just so you will know what it does.
> My conclusion: very hot under those %^$#*% Halogen lights; lots of friction between metal and steelwool; light oil into the mix and POOF!!
> Let's ALL keep it in mind. Okay, my little lecture is over.
> Thank you for dropping by. Ha!!


Birch, thanks very much for sharing this (it is not a story; it is true!) I am sure all are greatly relieved that you are not injured and that no more damage was done.

Several years ago aI was using a downcut spiral bit to cut box joints. The "router dust" accumulaed at the top (table mounted) of the cuts and started smoking. On of my earlier posts described the incident (This may be dumb, but do not do it, in the tools and woodworking forum, page 18 9 03 2006)t. I now always have water near where I am working, thanks to the advice from fellow forum members.

Decades ago I was a member of an organization that emphasized outdoor activities (alright, I was an Eagle Scout and a district junior leader trainer). One skill I taught was how to start a fire. One way, my favorite, is to take steel wool, a piece of flint, and a piece of steel or iron such as the blade edge of a closed pocket knife. With the steel wool in close proximinty, strike the flint sharply with the steel. The resulting spark need only hit the steel wool to start the fire! It works every time after a few tries.. I do not know the grade of the steel wool, but I do not remember that it had to be 0000 grade; I think any grade would work. And I did not even have any oil of any type involved. 

Should we add steel wool to our informal list of hazardous shop materials?

While we are at it, it was velcro that ignited and killed the Apollo 1 astronauts in the launch pad run through.

Birch, you might note that my "lecture" is even longer and much more long-winded.


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

I would like to suggest more specifically that every woodworker have a CO2 fire extinguisher in their shop... and more is better... 
This type can be used over and over again until empty.... it reseals when you release the trigger... but the other types can not seal up again completely.. so must be recharged even after the smallest use.
I had one for automotive work and it lasted for 8 years...and I used it pretty regularly... that is cheap insurance. It will put out fires up inside cavities which you can get water to.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Having and using a CO2 extinguisher is an excellent idea that we shlould all note. 

However, my other major interest (besides woodworking) has led me to learn that too much CO2 is not good for a person; it can be lethal even if there is enough oxygen. Hence the workshop needs to be well ventilated. Triple the amount of CO2 in the atmposhere right now leads to poor judgement (just what one needs when using a router?) Ten times the amount in the atmosphere leads to oxygen deprivation, brain damage, and worse. These levels canbe reached in enclosed spaces if there is dry ice, and use of the CO2 extinguisher would cause transient increases into these levels. Hence be sure the workshop is well ventilated.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Birch said:


> A quick follow-up. I did not get burned much-nothing to fret about. Yes, I DO have an extinguisher in the shop-TWO of them in fact. The incident was just a reminder to me that things can sometimes go wrong very quickly, a lesson I have learned in several ways down through the years. Ya, gotta be prepared to act quickly! Ha! Am pleased to hear that the information about the flamability of fine steel wool is useful to some members. As I said; take a ball of 4-ought and touch a match to it. But do it outside fer cryin' out loud!! Ha!


Glad to hear you are OK, here I am building a new shop and have not given proper thought to fire prevention. Well not totally true, I am as ways cautious when working with strippers, stain, finishes and solvents. My plain to, as much as is possible, build winter and summer then finish in fall and summer.

That was a great wake up call for me, thank you and again glad you were not injured badly.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, true to my word, I have been out and purchased a 2Kg dry powder extinguisher. I chose this type over the CO2 after reading numerous web sites. CO2 is only recommended for flamable liquids, paint, petrol etc.and electrical. Whereas dry powder is for Australian standards A B & E

A = ordinary combustibles like wood, paper, plastics, rubber etc. 

B = flamable liquids, paint, petrol etc.

E= live electrical equipment,motors, computers etc.

I realise that once used they tend to slowly leak, but what is a life worth? Perhaps the ideal would be a reasonable size dry powder AND a small CO2 one.

Do consider that there is a lot of category A in our sheds/shops.


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Relative to using steel wool as a fire starter, skip the match and touch the ends of a small wad of the 0000 to the contacts on a D or C cell battery. In survival class, they told us to save the matches.

TTG


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

Harrysin,
Well, I am surprised by what you said about the CO2 / regular fire extinguishers . 

For the class ' A ' which you list... taking away the oxygen AND cooling the item has always worked for me. The typical powder extinguishers do not cool and have trouble addressing both vertical situations and are of no use in cavities. ( like walls where electrical fires start or double panels in automobiles where the sound deadening catches fire when doing body work ) 

Your assumption that the leak of the propellant after partial use of the powder type is " slow" could be dangerous ( and I believe from my experience is wrong )... if one tries to keep that type ( powder ) for future use after the seal is breached they should be checked at the beginning of EACH DAY. 

Clearly having one or more of each would be great policy. 

We have not mentioned the difference in clean up... if you have both in your shop and a fire starts which either are covered by the recommendations... USE THE CO2 because it leaves nothing in terms of MESS... the others are the same as throwing a box of Soda at the fire. So things like motors will need some good cleaning afterwards. 
Greg


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI TTG

That's a good tip but most don't have any steel wool with them, here's one I saw on the TV the other day,, put some 22's in your pocket/back pack, then when you need to start a fire pull the bullet out of the 22 and hit the end of the shell with your knife/rock, this will fire the shell and ignite the gun powder and start the fire in some weeds/twigs //>>


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Thrifty Tool Guy said:


> Relative to using steel wool as a fire starter, skip the match and touch the ends of a small wad of the 0000 to the contacts on a D or C cell battery. In survival class, they told us to save the matches.
> 
> TTG


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

BobJ3...

You are kidding aren't you ?

If not, I have to really really disagree with the safety of that situation.

Do not try that kiddoes... some TV person was out of their mind to suggest such a thing.. there are SO MANY safer ways to start a fire that should not even be said in jest... 
Greg


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Bob,

I often wondered the same thing....."How likely would I be to have a wad of 0000 with me when I lost in middle of nowhere?" I might have a flashlight....but, I'll bet that the battery is either dead or corroded.

In any event, it's an interesting demonstration and potentially instructive for people working around electricity or metal filings. I hear that some magnesium alloy shavings can be fun.


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

Thrifty Tool Guy said:


> I hear that some magnesium alloy shavings can be fun.


More like standard survival gear...

http://www.survival-gear.com/magnesium-fire-starter.htm


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

GBM,

Bob was kidding. 

Wait until Harrysin chimes in, then you can get really scared.

TTG


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

WHEW, ( wiping brow ), I thought so... but had to speak up in case...
Greg


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

TTG, should we take down the last few posts so Harrysin can get the total impact ?
LOL
I happen to be one who does not think happy faces should have to be used for all comic posts... it takes away some potential for humor.... but I did not know these people enough to be confidant it was a ruse... 
Greg


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

GBM said:


> BobJ3...
> You are kidding aren't you ?
> If not, I have to really really disagree with the safety of that situation.


No, he is not kidding. You have a tiny amount of gunpowder and no bullet. It works.


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

The potential for flash burns to face or hands is HIGH.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

The guy on TV put a little notch in wood stick to hold the shell and put the tip of the knife to the back of the shell and hit it with a rock and zap the fire was going..
If I was outside in the cold and it was -20 below I would try it.. it's better than losing my toes and fingers to frost bite.. 

====


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Having spent more than a few hours reloading shotgun and rifle shells in my teenage years (born and raise in rural PA), I'm pretty familiar with smokeless powder. Modern primers can have a nasty snap like a small firecracker. Smokeless powder, however, burns quite slowly in open air and produces combustion gases. Smokeless powder is therefore classified as a propellent instead of an explosive. So, the use of a 22 rim fire shell (with bullet pulled) as a fire starter seems possible.

Now, traditional black powder is an explosive and must be handled completely differently. We never took the stuff in the house, but stored it in a dry shed several yards away. It's mean nasty stuff that should only be handled in small quantities.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

In my post warning about needing a well ventilated shop, I think I neglected to state how strongly I feel that GBM is right about the CO2 extinghisher. Any fire can be put out by depriving it of oxygen, and all extinguishers do that. As GBM pointed out, the cleanup after using a CO2 extinguisher is zero, while any other type, water, powder, whatever will cause major problems and might destroy equipment, and cause even more electrical fires as the water, etc. creates new circuits. 

Thrifty Tool Guy is right about survival training. I have not had any survival training in decades, and TTG's training was probably more rigorous than mine. He is much more knowledgeable than I am on the subject. Steel wool (and a piece of flint) was one of the things one always took on extended (overnight) outings.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> The guy on TV put a little notch in wood stick to hold the shell and put the tip of the knife to the back of the shell and hit it with a rock and zap the fire was going..
> If I was outside in the cold and it was -20 below I would try it.. it's better than losing my toes and fingers to frost bite..
> ...


What got ignited? the wood?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

He had some dry grass and weeds in a little pile right in front of the shell..and when the shell fired off the little pile was burning.  neat way to get one going..


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mftha said:


> What got ignited? the wood?


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