# Buy vs Build



## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

I have a router table almost together. Realy been taking my time. Maybe even more than Rainman. 

I saw the Bosch router table over the weekend for $165 @ Lowes. I thought that was close to a proce where it would make more sense to buy. Now I see the same one @ $139 on Amazon and it's to the point I wonder why a guy would need to build one if price were the driver:



It doesn't look like such a bad table - anyone ever actually used one? Is there any reason to steer a newbie to the Router Workshop model as a cost-effective starting point anymore?


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

I started with a Ryobi benchtop model similar to the Bosch. Several years later I cannibalized the fence and switch assembly to use on my *shop-built fold down table*. If you have the money, I don't think you'll go wrong with the Bosch table since you can always use the parts if you want to make a change.


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

I looked at the Bosch and other bench-top tables and decided that the RT top was just too small (15" X 25") and that since I don't have a bench it could sit on, I'd have to build a stand for it.

So I am building an RT for myself. Having a bit of difficulty with the top because it's too cold in my shop for contact cement to bond ;-( Finishing will just have to wait for warmer weather.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I agree with Oliver, you could use it for awhile then part it out!


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

I started with the Bosch 1181 (the model for $20 more) and had it about 2 years. You might not be able to do better for the price, but there's some real downsides to the 1181. This amazon review and comments (one of them mine) sums it up very well:

Amazon.com: jesse dosher's review of Bosch RA1181 Benchtop Router Table

I usually like Bosch products, but this is not one of them. Not all of Jesse's points on the 1181 are shared with the 1171, such as the rough surface, but it sure looks like the majority are.

On the plus side, I built a stand for it, and sold the whole thing for a $100.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Gaffboat said:


> I started with a Ryobi benchtop model similar to the Bosch. Several years later I cannibalized the fence and switch assembly to use on my *shop-built fold down table*. If you have the money, I don't think you'll go wrong with the Bosch table since you can always use the parts if you want to make a change.


That's a great point. Sometimes "it's easier and cheaper to make one" come into play when you have "stuff" laying around. I'm specifically looking at this from the standpoint of a new guy trying to formulate a beachhead in woodworking. Making everything leaves a "chicken or the egg" conundrum, and often results in buying more than the "average" person would in order to complete an "easy" project.



CharlesWebster said:


> I looked at the Bosch and other bench-top tables and decided that the RT top was just too small (15" X 25") and that since I don't have a bench it could sit on, I'd have to build a stand for it.


I thought about the top size and it's one of those "bring the router to the work or bring the work to the router" things. If the table is too small the piece may be too large (judgement call of course.)


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

furboo said:


> I started with the Bosch 1181 (the model for $20 more) and had it about 2 years. You might not be able to do better for the price, but there's some real downsides to the 1181. This amazon review and comments (one of them mine) sums it up very well:


I didn't see your reply when I posted mine. I am NOT an owner of this table, but I thought in the interest of this thread I might reply to the review you posted:



> -I take it back, there's one thing that's pretty bad: the accessory rail at the top of the extruded aluminum fence is not flush with the fence. It sits back from the face of the fence about half an inch. This makes is necessary to use fiddly little plastic spacers when mounting the feather boards or guard. While it's not a fatal flaw, in the end it's really quite annoying.


I did notice this when playing with it in the store. I thought at the time it would be smartest to shim the rail out. I can't guarantee that's possible but that was what I thought I would do if I owned it.



> -The fence doesn't move back far enough to remove the plate. Often if you have a router that's not easy to remove bits from the top you'll just pull the router and plate up out of the table. With the RA1181 the fence blocks the router plate from being removable.


The table for the 1171 has keyholes to remove the fence.



> -The surface of the table is rather rough. While this seems more of an aesthetic issue, you'll soon realize it creates issues when doing coping cuts (routing the ends of boards). Even after waxing up my Woodpeckers coping sled and the surface of the RA1181 there's still a lot of resistance to smoothly sliding over the table. I can see why people prefer a smooth melamine or cast iron table.


I'd say if a guy has discerning taste and purchases Woodpecker tools, he probably should not buy an entry level anything else. :wink:

The table did not seem rough and that sort of melamine always waxes real nice. I'm not speaking as a user but I didn't note that table as being particularly rough. The plate should be the main bearing surface anyway and that was aluminum.



> -Sharp plastic. This probably seems like I'm being a pansy, but I've scraped more than enough skin off my hands reaching under the table to adjust the router. Everywhere is sharp plastic edges.


This is an MDO table, I didn't see any places to cut one's self. Still if you are a router user and can't figure out how to smooth something ... maybe woodworking is not your best bet.



> -The fence is not precise. When you tighten the clamping screw down the fence moves a small amount. It's minor, but it's an issue.


No comment here ... I'l try to remember to check that out when I hit the store again.



> -The fence can't be removed as easily as other tables. I have mounted my RA1181 in the extension wings of my Delta table saw and when I need to do a long cut I have to completely unscrew the RA1181's fence knobs to remove the fence. Most tables have a key hole slot and you can lift the fence of by moving to the far end of the slot.


Like I said, there were keyholes.



> -The included feather boards have a pretty fiddly, annoying mounting system when putting them into the miter track. They don't just slide in, they have to be lined up and inserted into a pair of key-holes.


Accessories are just that. You can always replace them. It's true these were fiddly, and again I'm not a user of the tool, but they seemed a minor annoyance. They are carriage-head bolts that slide in the track.



> -If you every decide to add a router lift to the table you'll discover that the plate is a non-standard size and your options are, well, non-existent.


Why would you add a $300 option to a $150 table? 

I appreciate the review though - it let's a person know what he is walking into. Nothing about that makes me believe it's a bad choice for a beginner who just wants to make some sawdust.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Well, if it's a choice between no router table or that one, I'd opt for the bosch. 

But, if the choice is between the bosch (or any "benchtop" router table) and even a half way well thought out shop built RT, I'd take the latter in a heart beat. There are at least a dozen reasons why you should build your own: size, stability, storage, cost, ... It may be a little daunting to a new woodworker but it's really not that hard and you learn a lot along the way. Tons of plans out there to choose from. And if it's ugly, who cares??? - it's in the shop. I consider building a router table to be a woodworker's rite of passage. 

By the way, if you build, just start with a top and put it on two saw horses. You are up and running fairly fast. Then use that to build the cabinet.


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

PhilBa said:


> -snio-
> By the way, if you build, just start with a top and put it on two saw horses. You are up and running fairly fast. Then use that to build the cabinet.


Yeah, that's the mistake I made. I should have made the top first because several tasks in building a router table are much easier if you already have a router table :surprise:


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

PhilBa said:


> By the way, if you build, just start with a top and put it on two saw horses. You are up and running fairly fast. Then use that to build the cabinet.


That's what I have ... 

The point is if a new guy needs an RT rather than to check off a rite of passage, something like this ain't bad. Then he can decide for himself what he likes and does not like about it and then incorporate that into one he builds.

If it's a matter of "here's how to be a woodworker" then maybe I agree with you. If it's "here's how to get that project you already have done without getting sidetracked" then I think buying this might not be bad. 

This video rated the 1171 higher than the 1181 by the way:






The Bench Dog 40-001 seems to be a top-rated benchtop:



@ $299 it's quite a bit more. Here's where "build vs buy" starts to gain traction.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

way too small...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah, the problem with bench tops is they are a compromise to start with. Like I said, better than nothing. But, not by much.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I got the simple Grizzly RT -- think it was around $139 --- - works great for what i do.

HJ


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## Twistedcowboy (Feb 2, 2015)

I have the Bosch router table. It does the job. I like it but there is one drawback that I see: it is possible to get the fence square, but it takes a lot of concentration to do so. You have to adjust each side individually. It would be a drastic improvement if they made it slide as one whole unit.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Twistedcowboy said:


> I have the Bosch router table. It does the job. I like it but there is one drawback that I see: it is possible to get the fence square, but it takes a lot of concentration to do so. You have to adjust each side individually. It would be a drastic improvement if they made it slide as one whole unit.


First off, I think the Bosch is too small as others have said, but, if you're not interested in building your own right away, then for the price it's not bad. You then determine what you like and don't like when you either build or buy the next one.

Keep in mind, the fence doesn't have to be square to the bit, only needs to be square to the miter slot, if you are using the slot.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

I am now upgrading but used this table for more than a year. It is small, but mine has worked fine. Since I have been using the router more than I thought, I decided it was time to upgrade. I am going up to a lift and a larger router, but for the last year this has worked well for me.


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## Twistedcowboy (Feb 2, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> First off, I think the Bosch is too small as others have said, but, if you're not interested in building your own right away, then for the price it's not bad. You then determine what you like and don't like when you either build or buy the next one.
> 
> Keep in mind, the fence doesn't have to be square to the bit, only needs to be square to the miter slot, if you are using the slot.


I was given the Bosch table for my birthday. My old Craftsman router table wouldn't accept my new DeWalt router. It has served me well so far. I understand how you could see it as too small, but it has worked just fine for me. I am going to build a new work table soon and I will make the table level with the top of the Bosch so outfeed shouldn't ever be a problem then.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Twistedcowboy said:


> I am going to build a new work table soon and I will make the table level with the top of the Bosch so outfeed shouldn't ever be a problem then.


And that right there seems to me to be a great solution.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

I have the Craftsman version of this table. Very similar if not the same table. It is small but for what I use it for I can get by. I would like a larger table but I simply don't have the room so I will continue to use this one. The top is smooth and the wood slides very smoothly. The fence is a very simplistic design and doesn't work as smoothly as higher end fences but it does work. Dust collection is more than adequate. My major drawback to this is the difficulty with bit changes and height adjustment but again I can manage. While there are much better tables out there , I have found this to be a very serviceable table.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

All great points guys.

I completely GET that a number of you NEED a larger table. The point I was trying to make is that 1) not everyone needs a larger table and 2) a new guy just really wants to build his (box, frame, toy, whatever) and doesn't want to build a tool (yet.) If you have never used anything before, buying something to get started, so long as the price is reasonable, is not a bad way to go. You get in, get started, and begin to form an opinion what you want in your next table if you need one. If you spend twice the money and a hundred times the length of time to get something to work with and you end up with something you don't like, your have wasted far more.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

LBussy said:


> All great points guys.
> 
> I completely GET that a number of you NEED a larger table. The point I was trying to make is that 1) not everyone needs a larger table and 2) a new guy just really wants to build his (box, frame, toy, whatever) and doesn't want to build a tool (yet.) If you have never used anything before, buying something to get started, so long as the price is reasonable, is not a bad way to go. You get in, get started, and begin to form an opinion what you want in your next table if you need one. If you spend twice the money and a hundred times the length of time to get something to work with and you end up with something you don't like, your have wasted far more.


Well said, Lee. I for one do very well with my 24" wide router table and haven't needed a larger one. It's really about the type of projects you do and that should be what drives the size decisions. 

For example, I have an old 9" Craftsman bandsaw that I've thought about replacing many times because it would be cool to have a better saw with more bells and whistles. The reality is that it works very well for the kind of projects I make and spending money for something bigger doesn't make much sense.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

LBussy said:


> All great points guys.....
> a new guy just really wants to build his (box, frame, toy, whatever) and doesn't want to build a tool (yet.) If you have never used anything before, buying something to get started, so long as the price is reasonable, is not a bad way to go. .


Exactly, the usefulness of a tool is not really appreciated until actually used.
Once started, new ways to use and limitations are discovered.
Just get started.


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

I have a Craftsman Profession router table I have had many years with my fixed base router that I would install when needed and remove when needed. I just upgrade to a combo router wit plunge and fixed base and it has above table adjust so had to drill hole in table top but have the fixed base mounted in the table and can easily remove route and put in the plunge base. I am very happy with it for the work I need it for and the table is big enough for what I need and I can move the router table ware ever I need it. As said, it depends on what you need is.
Allen


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## MT Born (Oct 29, 2014)

billyjim said:


> I have the Craftsman version of this table. Very similar if not the same table. It is small but for what I use it for I can get by. I would like a larger table but I simply don't have the room so I will continue to use this one. The top is smooth and the wood slides very smoothly. The fence is a very simplistic design and doesn't work as smoothly as higher end fences but it does work. Dust collection is more than adequate. My major drawback to this is the difficulty with bit changes and height adjustment but again I can manage. While there are much better tables out there , I have found this to be a very serviceable table.


What Bill said.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

I would possibly consider using that small table for a fairly small 1/4" bit shank router but feel that for me (just me, not someone else) a bench top unit would be too small. Also, I would need some sort of lower bench or even a pair of saw horse to hold it a good working height.

Possibly if I was using it only occasionally and for limited size work and in a very small shop it would be fine. Or if it was for job site use. I have to say that my Grizzly table and 2-1/4 Hp P-C router is just right for my use. That Grizzly table does need some fine adjusting 'gadgets', especially the fence though, but at the price and size, easy upgrades.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Depends on the projects you're going to make. This is a pretty nice little table, but if you make your own, you can buy a quality insert to mount your router. You're going to be using this for the rest of your life. Not really so hard to make your own top. Look up the plans on this site and google for others. YouTube has many videos on building your own router table and top.

Many inserts are slightly different sized, so you want to get a nice, strong aluminum plate for your router (skip the plastic, which can sag). Several brands are available. I popped for the Woodpecker because it has a twist lock insert that makes it easier to change bits from the top, but it is a bit pricier than most of the others. I got an email from Rockler that they have a twist lock plate in the works, but not out yet. Many plates have 3 screws to hold the insert in place, so its annoying to change bits from the top.

Your router has a pretty standard set of mounting holes so a plate you buy for it, so you will still be able to use the plate with most other brands. Bosch 1617 routers with the fixed base can be mounted easily and have a key so you can make adjustments from above the table. So until you buy a lift, it will do the job more easily than taking the motor in and out. 

The fence is the other thing to consider. Although they are nice, you don't really have to have a metal fence. There are many plans for making your own fence, one of which featured a square tube construction so you can hook up a shop vac to the end and get rid of much of the dust.

For short term use, you will want to make some sort of box below the top to contain the dust, but that is a pretty simple build. I'd want that box to have an open top, with a rail spanning the opening for strength. Put a simple door on the front so you can get to the router when necessary and put a dust collection port in so you can get the dust out. Use a couple of metal L brackets around the top to fasten it to the bottom of your wood table top. 

The key thing is that the top should be as flat as possible, and you'll have to cut out the opening and make a rabbit in the opening to hold the plate securely. Cut the rabbit deeper than the thickness of the plate and you can put screws into the rabbited area to level the plate with the top. Keep it simple and you will be able to use this for a very long time. Then if you build a fancy table, transfer the top to the table. If you pop in the future for a commercial fence, it won't hurt to just toss the old one. 

Some plates have a template available to cut the hole, but you can also clamp strips of wood in place to guide the bit you use to cut the rabbit.

I bought a top and fence, but I had the budget for it then and had just been treated for Cancer, so wasn't sure I'd be around much longer, so I just wanted to get it going. Now, I'd almost certainly build it instead. The table needs to be as flat as possible, so find the flattest piece of high quality real Baltic Birch ply you can find. Glue it to a flat, thick piece of MDF for a total of about 1.5 inches thickness. 

But I agree that it should be larger than the Bosch table. The small table is easy to outgrow and you can make your own top over a weekend. Get the plate first!

That's my take.

P.S., when you put screws in MDF, be sure to pre drill the hole first. MDF does not take kindly to screws!


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> The fence is the other thing to consider. Although they are nice, you don't really have to have a metal fence. There are many plans for making your own fence, one of which featured a square tube construction so you can hook up a shop vac to the end and get rid of much of the dust.


I've not seen too many plans for a good router fence. Can you recommend one?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

LBussy said:


> I've not seen too many plans for a good router fence. Can you recommend one?


I was describing one I saw in a video on YouTube, which I can't seem to find now. It was a really simple build, really just a 4 sided tube just the right size to attach a 2.5 inch dust port on the end. front of the fence could easily be taller than the other sides. There's a cutout for the bit in the one I saw. So sawdust is sucked into the tube and out the side.

You could simply clamp it to the table top, or you could run a stopped dado vertically on each side of the table and put in some T bolts, up through the fence to a knob on each side so you can lock it down. The fence is often set by pivoting it from a fixed point on one side by moving the other side. 

But a fence doesn't really need to be fancy, just straight and flat.


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