# First router project



## sande005 (Feb 20, 2015)

Hi all - new here, with some first post questions about using a router, and a few more for my first router based project!

My new router is a Bosch 1617 kit. The project will be be replacing a 5 foot section of stair rail! The new one will be in Craftsman style, so about 30 or so mortise and tenon joints, all doing various joins on the 2x2 balusters. Wood will be clear pine (!) (Sorry, but have to match all the other wood in the house!)

After playing around a lot for the first time yesterday, I finally got various thicknesses of scrap wood clamped together to make a fence, so I could route down the centerline of a 2x2. What is the diameter of the Bosch router base? Is it metric? It does not seem to be any convenient size! Anyway, this led to ordering the official edge guide, which should arrive tomorrow. Hope that eases some of the pain....
Mortise and tenons will end up being 1/2" wide x 1" long, undecided how deep - 1/2" or maybe 3/4".

Second, not wanting to spend $70 on an up spiral bit right away, I got a 1/2" straight one at Lowes for playing with. How do I judge what speed to use? There was a bit of wood burning - too fast? Too much pressure? While I would rather not have to get the pricey bit for now, should I (given the number of cuts and the wood being cut)? I expect to later, but am trying to space out the purchases a bit...

The project will also require a 5 foot 2x2 sub-rail with mortises running the length, spaced about every 8". Any suggestions on how to make a start/stop jig so I can maintain accurate spacing and mortise length? Sighting where the bit will hit the wood to get an accurate mortise start when doing a plunge seems a little challenging.....

Finally, a glue question - Titebond or Gorilla? I'm thinking Gorilla, as it will help fill joint gaps (as long as I am careful so it doesn't expand out to the surface or push things apart!) But if you think caution is in order for this project, please advise and I'll go with the more conventional wood glue.

Thanks for any and all advice in advance!


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Ted.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hi all - new here, with some first post questions about using a router, and a few more for my first router based project!
*1st off I'd like to send you to my uploads... 
PDF's aplenty on jigs, speeds, methods, using a router and some nonsense *
http://www.routerforums.com/profile.php?do=editattachments&u=86031&showthumbs=1

After playing around a lot for the first time yesterday, I finally got various thicknesses of scrap wood clamped together to make a fence, so I could route down the centerline of a 2x2.
*are you plowing the 2x2 (making a dado)???*

What is the diameter of the Bosch router base?
*6'' SAE...*

Is it metric?
*no...*

It does not seem to be any convenient size! Anyway, this led to ordering the official edge guide, which should arrive tomorrow. Hope that eases some of the pain....
*it will...*

Mortise and tenons will end up being 1/2" wide x 1" long, undecided how deep - 1/2" or maybe 3/4".
*can you be a bit more descriptive as to what you are doing???
are you making a banister??? *

Second, not wanting to spend $70 on an up spiral bit right away, I got a 1/2" straight one at Lowes for playing with. How do I judge what speed to use?
*max..*


There was a bit of wood burning - too fast?
*WTB you are biting off more than the bit can chew..*

Too much pressure? While I would rather not have to get the pricey bit for now, should I (given the number of cuts and the wood being cut)? I expect to later, but am trying to space out the purchases a bit...

The project will also require a 5 foot 2x2 sub-rail with mortises running the length, spaced about every 8". Any suggestions on how to make a start/stop jig so I can maintain accurate spacing and mortise length? Sighting where the bit will hit the wood to get an accurate mortise start when doing a plunge seems a little challenging.....

Finally, a glue question - Titebond or Gorilla? I'm thinking Gorilla, as it will help fill joint gaps (as long as I am careful so it doesn't expand out to the surface or push things apart!) But if you think caution is in order for this project, please advise and I'll go with the more conventional wood glue.
*skip the gorilla and go w/ the tite bond*

Thanks for any and all advice in advance!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Ted...maybe the bit you have will not "dig in" meaning, no cutters on the business end for drilling straight down...AND...the dust is not clearing while you are trying to hollow out the mortise...?

As Stick mentioned, try doing a little at a time and clear the sawdust then go deeper...

Good luck and welcome...Nick


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Ted...maybe the bit you have will not "dig in" meaning, no cutters on the business end for drilling straight down...AND...the dust is not clearing while you are trying to hollow out the mortise...?
> 
> As Stick mentioned, try doing a little at a time and clear the sawdust then go deeper...
> 
> Good luck and welcome...Nick


I got this sneaky feeling he's trying to make a deep dadoes in a handrail for spindles...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

look at this PDF and see if anything is like what you are trying to do...


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## sande005 (Feb 20, 2015)

Sorry, using wrong terminology.....
Yes, Stick guessed correctly. I'm drilling in and then moving forward, not starting from an edge.
Test mortises are 1/2" deep, I started by using the step adjustment, and recut one step at a time, rather than going full depth all at once. Bit seems to have cutting edges on the end, so while not like a full on drill, it is cutting when plunging. Yes, it may be plugging with dust. Guess it will be a trip to Rockler tomorrow.... In any event, it is hard to recut deeper in subsequent passes and stay exactly in the preceding track. Again, maybe the edge guide will rescue me.

As far as base size - the plunge base seems to be about a 6 5/8" circle diameter, with one edge cut off, hence the issue with making a fence. Hard to describe how I was holding it. Let's try: If the router is moving directly away from me, I was holding the handles on the right and left sides and pushing away. Should they instead be in line with the track the bit makes, and the cut off edge of the plunge base against the homemade fence?

Thanks for the link to more info!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sorry, using wrong terminology.....
Yes, Stick guessed correctly. I'm drilling in and then moving forward, not starting from an edge.
*okay...*

Test mortises are 1/2" deep, 
*test for what???*

I started by using the step adjustment, and recut one step at a time, rather than going full depth all at once. 
*1/8' cuts/passes are fine as in very good...*

Bit seems to have cutting edges on the end, so while not like a full on drill, it is cutting when plunging.
*understood..*

Yes, it may be plugging with dust. 
*pine is a wood that has it's own quirks.. I believe that the bit is loading up w/sap/gum and may be your issue...
for sap.. mineral spirits and a tooth brush will clean that bit up right fine..
see the PDF's..*

Guess it will be a trip to Rockler tomorrow.... 
*clean the bit a try again before you leave
I like my Freud bits... Whiteside are good ones too... pleases do yourself a favor and leave the Asian imports at the store...
and up spiral would be the ticket but there's nothing wrong with a straight bit.....*

In any event, it is hard to recut deeper in subsequent passes and stay exactly in the preceding track. 
*see the PDF's..*

Again, maybe the edge guide will rescue me.
*to do a really accurate cut you'll need two guides
one on each side of the rail so that the rail runs between the guides...
use the Bosch guide on one side and a home made one for the other...*

As far as base size - the plunge base seems to be about a 6 5/8" circle diameter, with one edge cut off, 
*that's the norm for a plunge base...*

hence the issue with making a fence. Hard to describe how I was holding it. Let's try: If the router is moving directly away from me, I was holding the handles on the right and left sides and pushing away. Should they instead be in line with the track the bit makes, and the cut off edge of the plunge base against the homemade fence?
*handle position is for your comfort...
if your single guide is on the left side of the rail (rail pointed away from you) you pull the router to you..
if the guide is on the right you push the router away from you..

now tell us what it is you are trying to do exactly...
what type of spindles are you installing and why are you dadoing so deep..*

Thanks for the link to more info!
*yur welcome...*


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Ted and welcome. You will find the routing much easier and your bit will last much longer if you remove some of the wood first with other tools. If you are making a continuous groove then set a skillsaw for the right depth and make at least one cut with it. You'll have to try it to believe what a difference that can make. If you are making individual mortises for each spindle then drill some holes and try to remove at least 50% of the wood that way. The router bit then is mostly cleaning up what's left. Because the bit gets some air to cool with and has room to get rid of the chips it will run much cooler. 

What Stick says about the edge guide is correct. It will keep from going in farther but it won't stop the router from coming back the other way and without the second fence on it, it will.

About the foam that polyurethane glues produce: according to the manufacturers' websites (all of them I've seen), the foam has no strength. Joints must be tight fitting for the glue to hold. If you want a glue that will fill gaps you need a thick epoxy or a glue with high solids content like Lee Valley's 202GF. However, if you have a tight fitting joint it isn't always a good idea to use a gap filling glue. They might cause the joint to split.


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## sande005 (Feb 20, 2015)

Thanks all!

Had a chance to review the pdf's Stick referred me to. The first jig looks like just the ticket! A little bit of modification, so I can also get the spindle spacing, and I should be good to go. May not even need the Bosch edge guide!

The project:
This is replacing a level railing section. Hope to reuse existing end newels, but will replace if I have to. 

Attached is a picture that is close to what I will be doing.

Spindles (balusters) will be 2x2's. I will be cutting tenons in each of the spindle ends, to fit in mortises on each horizontal element. Using my dado saw, it currently looks like a tenon that is 1/2" wide, by 1" long, by 1/2" tall coming off of the 2x2 end would be about right. Hence the slots cut by the router will be 1 (l) x 1/2 (w) x 1/2 (d). Slots in the horizontal run will be a little over 4" apart, meaning the spindles will be about 4" on center. The slots are only 1/2" deep. Maybe I'll go to 3/4 inch deep if after playing some more I think I need the added wood surface.

I had originally thought to do all this using dowels, but M&T seemed more elegant. After getting a quote from a local carpenter, it fully justified my completing my tool set and getting a dado blade and a router! So this is my first foray into woodworking that is closer to cabinetry than deck building or replacing interior mouldings done previously.

So far, I've only been doing test cuts in scrap to get a feel for how the router operates. Will do a bunch more, and some mock-ups of the railing before I go for real. The good side of pine - it's cheap, so I can waste a lot of it!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Amazing the knowledge on this forum!


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

It looks like you are going to be gluing a lot of pieces at one time. If so glue set up time will be critical. I built a railing that had a much longer stretch with many more pieces that had to be glued up at the same time. I used a hide glue which gave me plenty of time to do the glue ups. The railing has been up for around 15 years and everything is still very tight.

Buck


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ted; just a thought here...don't know what your precip situation is like where you are...but you might give some thought to how the bottom of the spindles are located/mounted. Having anything that can collect and hold moisture is a recipe for heartache down the road.
Would having a continuous raised ridge in the centre of the bottom rail, with the spindles having a channel, so that they ride the rail like a saddle, work in your project?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you said dado blade..
do you have a table saw and dado blade???
if so cut a full length dado on the saw and cut fillers for in between the baluster's tenons...
there's nothing stopping you from using the router to ploughing the rails for a full length dado...

increase the ½'' thick/wide dimension of the tenons.... remove no more than 1/3 total material to make the tenons...
1½ x 1½" balusters get 1x1 tenons ½-¾'' long...
if you have a drill press take a ¾'' forstner bit set up a fence on it 
and hog out the bulk of material... finish with the router...
with attention to detail and learning how much you can overlap the borings it is entirely possible to do this operation by hand...

do not use a spade bit, only a flat bottom boring bit... a spade bit has a large point on it and will leave a line of *V* shaped holes in the bottom of the mortise/dado seriously weakening the rail and that line of *V's* will lead to the rail eventually splitting...
I learned this the hard way... redoes and rework can be a real PITA... 
it will be a lot of drilling so a quality bit is a must ... stop and clean the pine sap/gum w/ MS periodically from the bit...

benefit here is stronger construction and all squared cuts, no round overs to deal with
is this railing inside or outdoors??? Which rail are you replacing???
if it's the intermediate cut individual M&T's on the top and a full length dadoes w/ fillers on the bottom side.. hold the length of the tenons to ½ max.. ¾'' for the top rail..

now for the newels.. 
why do think you need to replace them???
with a little more exacting information we can fine tune this a bit further...


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

DesertRatTom said:


> Amazing the knowledge on this forum!


The best part, Tom, is that those in the business are willing to share their knowledge. Not many forums have that...


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## sande005 (Feb 20, 2015)

Wow, thanks again Stick for all the great advice. Hmmm, return my router and use just the dado blade???
Naw, I just couldn't! I've been looking for a reason to buy one for years, and this railing replacement was the wife's idea....
(but maybe I will dado the whole thing with the router as you suggest, to justify getting the tool!)

This is an interior project, like the one shown. While I have a fair amount of experience doing rougher things like decks (current is about 900 sq. ft, with three levels!), door/interior moulding replacement for the whole house, as well as some very badly built cabinets early in my life - this is my entry into doing finer finished, more precision work - so all help appreciated.

One newel is rock solid - the other had a compression baby gate pressing against it, which seems to have caused it to loosen a bit. It also seems to have a bit of a twist in it. I have to strip paint from them to better see what is going on. I really, really don't want to get into dealing with something that is attached to the joists of the house!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Wow, thanks again Stick for all the great advice. 
Hmmm, return my router 
*you do that Dan and Rick will be over to talk to you about it...
take note... 
any beer, anyplace near or around you will mysteriously disappear never to be seen again..*

and use just the dado blade???
*for some of the job... good way to cut your tenons too...*

Naw, I just couldn't! 
*WHEW!!!!*

I've been looking for a reason to buy one for years, and this railing replacement was the wife's idea....
*so let's figure out how to worm a few more tools into the project...
you just may have a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig in your futures..*

but maybe I will dado the whole thing with the router as you suggest, to justify getting the tool!
*the TS is the more gooder way...
who knows.. you just may need a real good dado blade set...

Freud Tools | 6" Pro Dado Set *

This is an interior project, like the one shown. While I have a fair amount of experience doing rougher things like decks (current is about 900 sq. ft, with three levels!), door/interior moulding replacement for the whole house, as well as some very badly built cabinets early in my life - this is my entry into doing finer finished, more precision work - so all help appreciated.
*no problemo...
so which rail are you replacing???*

One newel is rock solid - the other had a compression baby gate pressing against it, which seems to have caused it to loosen a bit.
*you may be able to fix it...
need pictures... especially of the base at the floor...
what kind of floor is the newel sitting on???...
as long as you load the pictures on your computer you will be able to post them...* 

It also seems to have a bit of a twist in it. 
*and is the newel twisted or just turned???
how is the railing attached to the newels???*

I have to strip paint from them to better see what is going on.
*done yet???*

I really, really don't want to get into dealing with something that is attached to the joists of the house!
*fill in the details and we'll see if we can't find an alternate plan...*


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