# My Dust Collection System



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Well, with the new saw coming, I think it's time to plumb in some dust collection for it. My old saw I could get away with sloughing off on it. I built that dust box that a shop vac could extract. This new one has a dust hood around the main and scoring blades- ported to the dust port which comes out the bottom of the back of the cabinet. Then it has another 2-1/4" port on the overhead crown. It was designed from "good" extraction to be there. If not, that dust hood around the blade would quickly fill up. Pictures of both those in my other thread.

I tried to buy a 2hp dust collector from Harbor Freight... But they were out. I got a rain check and I still have my 20% coupon. Will check back there Tuesday when there weekly shipment comes in.

I was thinking 4"ABS from the rear of the garage (where I want to put the dust collector). 

You know... I was thinking of building an enclosure outside for it. Run the tube through the wall... Over the garage to the other side where most of my equipment is. I was going to do this in the 3 months of shipping, but now have only 1 week. So the initial might just be one side, with the collector on a cart to move outside the garage door to use. (limitted space)

Woodcraft is having a dust collection "fittings" sale... and I saw their dust separator lid. I already have a HD 30 gal steel garbage can that would work with that... and at $25?

Not sure what fittings I really need to mate to 4" abs. And if it's cheaper to go with abs fittings or to go with DC fittings.

I do know that the only thing I have that's 4" will be that saw. Everything else I have is 1-1/4"-- My SCMS, CMS, RAS, Router table(s)... So I do have 2-3 ports that I need to adapt/reduce for those. 

That And I usually tidy up, vacuuming my garage. Sharon get's a bit miffed if she accidentally drops a piece of laundry and feels like she needs to rewash it if covered in saw dust. (Have to keep the peace.)

I took over the spare bedroom and moved all 10 of my servers into it (the computer room). But I still have some overflow electronics in the garage, that I still need to move. There was getting to be too much saw dust. (Knowing I have a DC problem.)

So anyone with tips on categorizing what might be considered necessary, the nice to haves and what would be a waste of money or effort? What could be substituted? Ideas?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I used mostly 4" galvanized duct pipe. Cheap, fits plastic blast gates and fittings, and it's easy to ground to. I am very paranoid about shop fires. I switched to flex hose to go frm my main 2 runs to individual machines. 

What I've been reading in Fine Woodworking says that you need a cyclone so that you can use a hepa quality filter at the DC. Unless, of course, you stick the DC outside. I've been considering that one too.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I used mostly 4" galvanized duct pipe. Cheap, fits plastic blast gates and fittings, and it's easy to ground to. I am very paranoid about shop fires. I switched to flex hose to go frm my main 2 runs to individual machines.
> 
> What I've been reading in Fine Woodworking says that you need a cyclone so that you can use a hepa quality filter at the DC. Unless, of course, you stick the DC outside. I've been considering that one too.


I can see that if I used galv. duct pipe, that it would mate up to 4" flex in a heartbeat... and would ground easily. You don't have any problems with it trying to collapse?

For the cyclone, I was looking at this:

But I'm thinking the design of that is off a bit (already scheming a better design modded from that...)

Update on the DC requirements of that saw, minimum of 1000 cubic feet per minute. The HF 2hp is rated at 1550cfm.* That would collapse a regular duty poly trash can... if used with the above cyclone lid (hd or steel recommended). Would galvy ducting hold up to that?

(Note: *- Their 2 smaller one's are both just not enough cfm for this saw.)

And then, attached is a better pic of the dust hoods.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mine is a 2 hp with a 6" intake split into 2 inlets of 4". I'm not sure what the CFM is, I bought it used. I've had it at least 5years with no issues with the piping. I don't have a cyclone yet so can't answer on that. You could always use an old oil drum. You could bolt some gate handles to it to make it easier to handle.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; was that a typo when you said ABS as opposed to PVC?
Just curious as most most discussions and pictures refer to the PVC model(?)...
What would be the advantage of going to ABS?


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I've had good results with the Thein style separator i built. Posted some pictures last fall on the BT3central site last fall--http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=56296&highlight=thein+separator

The DC unit is now on a shelf about 75" off the floor and the separator usually sits below it. I only get chips in the bag when i forget to empty the separator--now that it takes a ladder to empty i'm better at remembering to check the can. I did consider an outside enclosure, but with 10' side walls figured it was easier to use the space up above.

The fitting kit for the separator was under $20 from Peachtree i think. Since my "shop" is all rolling tools that need to be pulled away from the wall to use, having the Dust Right fittings is helpful. Still a pain in the butt to do the hook-up, but not the worst thing i deal with in life--and way cheaper than a new building!!

earl


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Mike; was that a typo when you said ABS as opposed to PVC?
> Just curious as most most discussions and pictures refer to the PVC model(?)...
> What would be the advantage of going to ABS?


Wasn't a typo, just a perspective. Wood craft has DC to ABS adapter fittings.

4" PVC is cheaper, but in a garage or shop, you don't really have a whole lot of long runs. Around here, there is an assortment of ABS fittings and adapters. But here (Local), 4" PVC and and 4" Schedule 40 PVC fittings are a premium (hard to find). Now if I go to somewhere like a commercial supplier, H.D. Fowler or a commercial irrigation supplier...

ABS is just durable. Not as much static. You don't have to worry about chemicals or it getting hit by something and shattering... And (not that it matters) it matches the color scheme of DC fixtures. (just saying)

But pvc is fine also. I guess galvy ducting might work also... But I think noise wise, with particulates moving through it generating there own noise... noisiest would be metal ducting, then PVC, then ABS... Not that I think much of that really matters if that 2 HP DC is installed initially in a confined space. (In the garage) That itslef should drown out most everything else. (Consideration to moving it outside and to save interior space.) Then metal dusting might not be as airtight(?)

But that for me? It's only 20-30 feet on one side of the garage. Later Adding a sweep (large radius 90) to get it across the garage through to the outside. It's not commercial. It's not a big shop. It's a single car garage. And with the humidity here almost always being up near 100% (only average 52 days without rain a year and most of those are overcast or foggy), there's not a problem here with static.


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## Bradleytavares (Feb 25, 2012)

Let's see pics when it's finished and the hardware is in place.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I taped my connections. Noise with the piping is not an issue. You couldn't possibly hear the difference from one type to the other. My DC is several times louder than my saw. You're still going to have an issue with what the saw blade throws when it is coming up and around the top of the table. Does the new saw have a blade guard with a DC connection?


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Good to know on the noise.


Cherryville Chuck said:


> Does the new saw have a blade guard with a DC connection?


Yes, it does- See the photo attached to post #3, this thread. They sell a hose hanger for that... but they are proud of it ($230). I figure PVC or hanging the hose from the ceiling would work out better for me.








Yes, since a cabinet saw with DC hoods below and above... The heavy gauge steel access panel for the cabinet is bolted on from the right side, under the right extension (53" reach on the right)... I'm thinking I don't want to have to open it often. Luckily, with the sliding table pushed back, I should be able to get to most things inside the cabinet (to clean and such) without having to take that access panel off.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Being that the saw is of European inspired design the internal DC might work well. My Unisaw is very poor and about once a month I have to open it up.

$230 is a bit pricey but I've seen worse and if it works it might be worth it. I figure my TS is probably the worst offender in my shop for dust. I was considering making something that hangs from the ceiling too, a home made plexi box suspended from 4 chains that I raise and lower as needed but I might have a look at attaching a hose to the blade guard. I have to do one or the other. Too much dust sawing mdf.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Being that the saw is of European inspired design the internal DC might work well. My Unisaw is very poor and about once a month I have to open it up.
> 
> $230 is a bit pricey but I've seen worse and if it works it might be worth it. I figure my TS is probably the worst offender in my shop for dust. I was considering making something that hangs from the ceiling too, a home made plexi box suspended from 4 chains that I raise and lower as needed but I might have a look at attaching a hose to the blade guard. I have to do one or the other. Too much dust sawing mdf.


I still have the pdf plan from the link PhilP gave. Even though this saw has DC on the overhead crown, that crown attaches to the riving knife... I like how the design he showed me is suspended from the ceiling with a cantilever type of linkage. That and being made out of clear acrylic... the visibility isn't restricted.

I do have questions though-- 
- If anyone is using DC machine quick connects, how do you like them and are they worth buying? 
- How are you going from 4" to 2-1/2"? 
- If you are reducing to 2-1/2" for some runs, are you using 2-1/2" gates or 4" gates before the reduction?
- Is anyone using a router table junction (4" + 2-1/2" Y)?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I haven't tried any of those, all my connections are 4" and I just use blast gates. Lee Valley shows a 4 to 2 1/2 Y connector and you would need a 2 1/2 blast gate.. If the router is at the end of a run you could use a 4 to 2 1/2 adapter in which case either size gate would work.

I have a Y in my system as I started a router station in my wall work bench but I never got it operational before I moved over to Alberta for work. One question I haven't answered yet is whether it will work well necked down or should I 
A. use a 4" Y and split to 2 -2 1/2" intakes (1 above and the other below the table) or
B. leave another blast gate open farther down for good airflow going to the DC?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, you may want to consider using one of the larger Oneida-Air products like the Super Dust Deputy for whole shop dust collection?

Buy ONEIDA AIR SYSTEMS Super Dust Deputy Metal Cyclone Only at Woodcraft.com

Another option would be to check out Clear Vue Cyclones based in WA. I really like their CV06 mini separator, it feels a lot sturdier than the Dust Deputy Deluxe.

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Mike said:


> Mike, you may want to consider using one of the larger Oneida-Air products like the Super Dust Deputy for whole shop dust collection?
> 
> Buy ONEIDA AIR SYSTEMS Super Dust Deputy Metal Cyclone Only at Woodcraft.com
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike. The ClearView Cyclone photos... Only 2-1/2" though. But the pictures gave me good ideas. "You" know I have MIG's, TIG's, ARC, Oxy/Acetylene, Wirefeed's, Plasma Arc's, Carbon Arc's and Hot-Air torches (for welding plastics). I was thinking of building a 2 stage separator, based on Rocker's cabinet design. 

I previously was thinking, like shown in the Clearview, a combo between a cyclone and theil design, but doing 2 inline, then add a filter to the top of my cyclone DC from Wenn...


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Mike if you have access to a sheet metal roller, I think I would roll up a true cyclone separator. Hang it high and let the dust and chips fall into a can or barrel through a hose for easy emptying. I have made large funnels using a roller and it is easy, and the metal is cheap. When I moved I left my 40" roller at my old house. Big mistake!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Willway said:


> Mike if you have access to a sheet metal roller, I think I would roll up a true cyclone separator.


That is what I am thinking. So I'm assuming "real" is the same shape like the super dust deputy. Shaped like a steep funnel... Intake coming in at an angle, in the side/near the top. The exhaust coming out the center of the top, with some extending into the housing, so that the exhaust is not directly acrossed from the intake... and a cyclone effect gets a chance to happen. 

The shape- I can 7 of them out our bedroom window at the millwork door plant down the hill. But I think those are pressurized/fed into instead of under vacuum through.

What has me at a lost is if there is any interior baffles that I am not seeing... I see some baffling in the ClearView. Maybe I should drop by the habitat for humanity to see if they have any in (every once in a while they do).


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Mike the Oneida is just a smaller version of the same old concept you are looking at. Nothing works any better than that same old design that has been used for the last century. There are no baffles needed. You won't need a large SM roller, you can roll it in sections then just MIG it. On some of the large units they use steam or water mist to knock down static and to increase the weight of the fine dust so it will fall into the container. The factory units work exactly the same principle as the Oneida. You will still need a catch can ahead of the blower. You can take a closer look at some of the larger units on eBay, some are laying on their side. Some use an airlock so they can just dump out the bottom into a pile or container outside. That is the reason for the extra flange on some.

dust collector cyclone in Manufacturing & Metalworking | eBay


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, the CV06 is Clear Vue Cyclones small version of their larger collectors.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Mike I don't know what I was thinking about, you don't need a catch can with a cyclone at all. Larger pieces will just fall to the bottom and into the container.


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