# Need 15amp Router for JessEm Rout-R-Lift



## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

About 10yrs ago I bought a Powermatic table saw with a Powermatic/JessEm Rout-R-Lift extension. I have been using a Freud FT2000E 3-1/4-Horsepower Electronic Variable Speed Plunge Router which worked well until yesterday when smoke came billowing out along with little shards of windings. Surprisingly and somewhat unbelievably It's still running fine although, under the circumstances I expect that to change in the very near future.

I'm looking to buy another 15 amp router to replace it and I'm interested in recommendations. Plunge is not necessary since my Rout-R-Lift is the type where the base of the router is fastened to the Rout-R-Lift's plate that does the raising/lowering. Fixed is also not necessary (although preferred) since it's not the type of lift that connects to the routers motor housing. 

Things I consider a must are: Little to no Spindle Run-out, Build quality/durability, power-3hp min., must be able to accept a 3-1/8in bit (min base opening 3.25in) and variable speed or at least five fixed speeds. 

Now what I'd REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like in order of importance is: Above the table bit changing ability, a fixed base router, some sort of spindle lock so the bits can be changed with just one wrench (this being the least important).

Things that are not important considerations at all are: weight/feel, plunge quality, stops, measurement guides, edge guides/fences or other similar extras since this router is just going to be lowered to it's lowest (or highest in table) position, have all unnecessary hardware removed (plunge springs etc.) and be left there until IT spews it's inner working as well.

Anyway thanks in advance. Your suggestions will be appreciated. :yes4:


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

Something I forgot to mention is I use an external power switch so routers that have problems with dust build-up messing them up (their power switch) will not be a problem since I can just cover the switch and leave it alone.


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

Almost two weeks and still no opinions? Anybody?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I do not use lifts, I do things the quick and easy way. What diameter motor will your lift accept? That will determine which routers can work in it.


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

Idonno:

JessEm's lifts are Router-specific, and I'm not sufficiently familiar with their line to know if it is inexpensive to change from one specificity to another (if you're looking for a slam-dunk router recommendation - Bosch 12 amp or 15 amp is my choice - though, everyone seems to have their favorites). However, back to Mike's point, above, it seems that JessEm needs to clarify your options.
MikeD


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

Well first off I appreciate the responses. 

The type of JessEm Rout-R-Lift I have is the "Powermatic/JessEm Rout-R-Lift" and as I said earlier: "my Rout-R-Lift is the type where the base of the router is fastened to the Rout-R-Lift's plate that does the raising/lowering" so it's definitely not Router-specific or the type that just has a mount for the motor. 

Anotherwards the entire router (base and all) mounts to a mounting plate at the router base where the plastic Sub-base would normally be, Which in turn is mounted to the raising/lowering mechanism. 

Any type of router that has a base can be used with the only limiting factor being strange mounting holes on the router but, even that can be overcome with a little drilling and tapping.

To clarify things even more the type of JessEm Rout-R-Lift is the "The Original" (same as the "Powermatic/JessEm Rout-R-Lift") seen here: well it appears that I'm not allowed to post a link yet (or anything even close) but if you google "Rout-R-Lift The Original Router Lift" then select the same you will get the proper result. 

Anyway thanks again for the responses and if any one has any more suggestions taking my original post into account , I would like to here them. :dirol:


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

With this, I'm going to draw a blank on how to proceed. JessEm makes great products; though, I don't own any of them (I have the Incra lift, which JessEm manufactured - this is sized specifically for the PC 7518, with a reducer for the PC 890/690 series).

A call into JessEm may shed some light on your options - I have found most manufacturers enjoy helping on questions like this - Incra spent an inordinate amount of time on a series of questions I had).

Best of Success; and welcome to the Forum
MikeD


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Only 2 fixed-base 15A routers I know of are the Porter-Cable 7518 and the Milwaukee 5625.

Both are tried-and true workhorses, as much power as you'll be able to get in any router. Neither are going to offer you above-the-table bit changes with a single wrench. The P-C has enough room in the base casting for a grapefruit, the Milwaukee looks like it might not pass your 3-1/8 panel bit but they offer a "Production Base Assembly" that might fit your requirement.

That's about it for fixed-base heavy-duty production routers, not a lot to choose from.

If this is your lift Jessem Rout-R-Lift it looks like the adapter ring has enough holes to fit almost any router.

Lots of plungers that'd do all you want, ultimate in build quality and reliability would have to be the Festool OF 2200. Pricey little sucker, though. You'd probably want to take your ring to a Festool dealer just to make sure it's got holes to fit or call Jessem to verify. But if you only want to buy one more table router the rest of your life this would be my suggestion.

For other 15A plungers, check out DeWalt 625, Bosch 1619, Makita 2301, Triton 001(seems to be a favorite around this forum), P-C 7539. All have their pros and cons, you can find infinite # of discussions and reviews on each. My big plunger is B&D/Elu 3339, predecessor of the DW 625. Dates back to early '90's, parts still available. Wouldn't allow 3-1/8 bit, DeWalt has changed base so maybe 625 would. Bosch advertises 3-3/4 base opening, rest don't say. 

Spend some time on this forum searching, Google, go to dealers and kick tires. You'll find something that'll suit you.

HTH,
Bill


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

Thank you Bill, very good response.
Like all new tool purchases that I make I've already spent a considerable amount of time researching this issue and like you 

noticed the adapter ring has enough holes to fit almost any router so "which router will fit" is not at issue.

I also narrowed down the fixed-base 15A routers to the Porter-Cable 7518 and the Milwaukee 5625 with the Milwaukee tacking a slight 

lead (so far) since the problems it has with dust build-up in the switch can be eliminated with my external power switch.

I was hoping I had missed something in this department though. I don't know why the manufacturers of fixed-base 15A routers don't 

add a simple spindle slide lock.

Do you know if either of these routers can have bit changes done with 2 wrenches from above the table? From all pictures I've seen 

it's kind of hard to tell whether the 2nd wrench attaches to the spindle close to the collet or the motor housing, or whether the 

spindle would extend far enough above the the table even if the spindle wrench was close to the collet wrench? 

As far as the 15A plunge routers go one thing I liked about my Freud FT2000E was aside from not being a fixed base router it had all the other features I needed at a very reasonable price of $175 (Although longevity also does not seem to be one of those features). 

I think one of the reasons it was so cheep was the general feel and plunge action was poor, at least that is my opinion as well as quite a few other reviewers. The nice part is that while these less than desirable attributes helped keep the prices down they were of no consequence to my intended use. For my router table It really doesn't matter if it feels like a slightly out-of-control top-heavy gyroscope as long as it has little to no spindle run-out.

So with all that in mind I really hate paying top dollar for a plunge router with all those great attributes if I'm never going to use it as a hand held tool or experience it's wonderful plunge action and precise stops etc. I have other routers for that. 

Which is why with at least the plunge routers I wonder whether a Hitachi M12VE for $199 with a not so great plunge action (according to some reviews) wouldn't be just as useful for my application as a much more expensive router. 

Something like a Festool would be great but, it would be almost criminal to spend $800 on a router then not use or disable most of those great features! 

By the way Bill I really like your Incra table saw fence.


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

With a 'bent' wrench, the PC should handle the two-wrenches above the table, assuming the table insert is wide-enough (this should not be an issue, but I'll mention this). The PC89x series allows for this, and my understanding is the 7518 has an even larger capacity. The two-wrench system isn't slick, but it is effective - just be careful not to nick the cutterhead in the process. 
MikeD


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

By the way, the Incra Fence system is excellent - though costly. If you're seriously considering one of these, ensure that you have sufficient space to the right of the Positioner, to allow for travel. In my view, the space requirement and the somewhat higher initial cost are the only drawbacks to an otherwise superior system.


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

I've heard that the Porter-Cable 7518 extends the furthest past the base of any fixed base router. Do you know how it compares to the Milwaukee 5625?

I have looked extensively at that Inca fence system in the past, unfortunately my conclusion was/is: I need a bigger shop first. It's definitely on the list though (after bigger shop).


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

I'm not familiar with the Milwaukee line - just hearsay, and it's all positive. With PC now virtually a brand-name inside the Black & Decker/Stanley corporate umbrella, there is a concern regarding whether B&D will maintain the quality which built the well-earned PC reputation. Having said this, the 7518 will handle anything you throw at it.

If you have the space for one Incra system, I would start with the Table Saw, or better yet, the Table Saw / Router Table combo - I have this; though, I'm graduating away from this, with a standalone RT. I've grown tired of the conversion process, changing-over from the TS to the RT, but it was/is deadly accurate and rock solid. Most of the Forum members rightfully recommend starting with standalone systems, but it does require more space and money to do this.
MikeD.


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

well for the fixed base routers (which i think i might be gravitating towards) Both of those routers (PC 7518 & Milwaukee 5625) are in the top 2 slots, although I don't really like the fact that those big-a** handles on the PC aren't removable. I think the next step will have to be to the store to check things out first hand.

There's 9/16ths in. between the base (w/out plastic sub-base) of my router to the top of my router table and an opening of 3 & 5/8in. so I don't want my choice to limit things any more than they have to.

In most respects allot of plunge routers would better suit my needs (at least as far as preferences go), but I have never liked the way they lock on only one of the two plunge cylinders. 

Having only one locked support 3" away from center while using 3"+ bits has just never seemed like the optimal set up to me.


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

The 7518 uses two same-size wrenches on the collet, as mentioned you can get an offset collet wrench for above-table use. Use one on mine, works great and easier than using 2 straight wrenches.

Dunno about the Milwaukee. Best bet would be to find a dealer who has one and see for yourself.

The older Hitachi M12 used to be a great tool, great value for the price. Not sure about the newer models, they look plasticky. Might be worth a try, you're basically just looking for a motor to spin a bit and it's certainly that. It's a good deal less expensive than other routers mentioned for sure. I found one recent review on Amazon very critical of the collet and it seems like it'd be difficult to access a spindle lock from above the table. My P-C 892 has that "feature" and it was impossible to use with router in the Jessem lift from above the table. At least it allowed you to use two wrenches, looks like the Hitachi doesn't but maybe someone here could confirm.

I love the Incra fence but it does take up room to the right especially when making wide rips. For the router table it's easy enough to flip it around, only takes a minute or so to move and zero to bit. Sturdy, repeatable and adjustable to .001". I'll never go back to an "old-style" fence.

Good luck with your search, post back and let us know what you end up with.

Best,
Bill


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

Bill:

A question on your Incra comment - do you use the TS/RT combo? And if so, do you switch feed directions when using the RT; that is, push a rip operation in a given direction, then when the TS system is re-positioned for routing, move the fence to the other side of the TS blade, and reverse it's feed? I hope I'm being sufficiently clear. Currently, my RT & TS are in the same 'plane'.

Thanks. MikeD


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

_A question on your Incra comment - do you use the TS/RT combo? _

Yep.

_And if so, do you switch feed directions when using the RT; that is, push a rip operation in a given direction, then when the TS system is re-positioned for routing, move the fence to the other side of the TS blade, and reverse it's feed?_ 

Sort'a. I turn the table around and flip fence. See below.

_I hope I'm being sufficiently clear. Currently, my RT & TS are in the same 'plane'.

Thanks. MikeD
_

Mike,

Plenty clear, wish I had the room to set up the cabinet in the middle of the shop and be able to walk around it but don't. So I pull it out however far I need to rip but if I pull it out far enough to rout I can't get around it. Pix are worth a thousand words, see thumbnails below.

Not an optimal solution but it works OK, just have to plan ahead so I get all the pieces ready for routing before I pull the table out, rotate it 180 degrees and push it back in. Still working on same side of the shop, fence still on right so normal right-left feed. Fence moves easily enough, easy to zero in, just takes a couple or three minutes each way. It's just that now I'm working on the outfeed side of the saw. Festool MFT you see in background is my outfeed table, drill press is usually stowed away elsewhere. 

You can't see it but there's a rolling cart with the vac and Dust deputy that usually sits between the two, close enough that I can use short piece of 2-1/2 hose to connect to either the saw or the Wonderfence. Little dust collector connects to compartment under saw or to router box to get rest of dust.

Kinda kludgey but it works.

Hope that answers your question, I think I'm  now... 

Best,
Bill


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Idonno said:


> As far as the 15A plunge routers go one thing I liked about my Freud FT2000E was aside from not being a fixed base router it had all the other features I needed at a very reasonable price of $175 (Although longevity also does not seem to be one of those features).


That Freud gets pretty good reviews.
The life of a router can depend on how often it is cleaned out. Using an air stream to remove the dust and chips is recommended.
10 years in a table, spinning large bits, is not exactly a short life span.


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

AxlMyk said:


> That Freud gets pretty good reviews.
> The life of a router can depend on how often it is cleaned out. Using an air stream to remove the dust and chips is recommended.
> 10 years in a table, spinning large bits, is not exactly a short life span.


Actually when I bought it the reviews weren't that great. Right now on Amazon it has 3.5 stars out of 5. As far as the professional reviews went none were bad, just not great and most usually agreed that for the price it was a good deal.

It actually hasn't died yet. Although all the signs of it's imminent demise are there and I want to have my ducks in a row if it does. 

There is still the possibility that one of the people I let in my shop that couldn't resist pushing whatever scraps were laying around on top of the router table into that little hole where the bit would be that also leads directly to the routers exhaust ports, pushed some small pieces of scrap copper wiring into the router resulting in friction that caused smoke due to partial ignition of some saw-dust. (wow that was a long sentence!) 

It seems that everyone and there brother just can't resist pushing junk in there. I constantly have to tell people not too. Besides woodworking I do a lot of electrical stuff so it's not uncommon for me to have small pieces of copper wire waste laying around.

While I do think the router is probably on the way out, this scenario would go a long way towards explaining why after the router threw out quite a bit of smoke and I cleaned out some small pieces of copper wire resembling the motors windings it still appears to be running OK. 

Back to you comment though, your right 10yrs really isn't that bad, considering everything and if it dies today I still don't regret the purchase.


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## mjdorsam (Nov 27, 2011)

Bill:

Thanks for the 2 photos - I have your setup, with an extra 2' to the right of the Positioner - what I've done is to put an extra 'stop' on the Incra Rails, with allows me to move the Positioner base back (away from the TS), and to then fully expose the RT. Of course, I've just moved the grey-space requirement by the same amount. The real downside for me is the Incra Wonder Fence - excellent in function; however, the back & forth conversion TS-RT (attaching it to the TS Fence (along with the Riser) and attaching dust collection) becomes burdensome during a project - I'm building a RT now, and will use the existing RT with an aux table attached, to form a stand alone. I'm compressing storage, and clearing out as much old & cold stuff as I can to make room.

Work Safe.
MikeD


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

Idonno said:


> ......................
> There is still the possibility that one of the people I let in my shop that couldn't resist pushing whatever scraps were laying around on top of the router table into that little hole where the bit would be that also leads directly to the routers exhaust ports, pushed some small pieces of scrap copper wiring into the router resulting in friction that caused smoke due to partial ignition of some saw-dust. (wow that was a long sentence!)
> 
> It seems that everyone and there brother just can't resist pushing junk in there. ...............


A roll of 2" blue tape would last a long time and go a long way towards fixing that problem... Or maybe a whack on the offending hand with a hammer? I bet word would get around, pushing trash into your router table Not a Good Thing! Just a suggestion... 

A halfway decent router should last a lot longer than 10 years if not abused. What's there to wear out? Bearings and brushes, maybe a switch is about all and cheap to replace. My B&D 7616 and Makita 3612 were bought in the '80s and are still running strong. The B&D/Elu 3339 was made in the early '90s and is still on its' first set of bearings with no problems yet. Maybe plungers if used hard will eventually need new rod bushings, those might be a PITA to replace. All my routers will probably outlive me and maybe my children. Yours should too.

Take that Freud apart, blow it out with an airgun and give it a new set of brushes. Chances are if it's still running and developing full power, there's nothing wrong with it. Go buy some bits with the money you were planning to spend on a new router and keep on working, when it dies you'll know for sure.

Happy routing,
Bill


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## Idonno (Mar 19, 2012)

Now, I really like the hammer Idea. Possibly a little too much.:lol:

As far as the router goes I'm going to decide on it's replacement then wait and see.
If it does experience more problems I'll replace it, then see about fixing the Freud.

If I end up with an extra router I'm sure I can put it to good use. I've been thinking about making another more portable router table anyway.


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