# Dust Collector Spec's



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

In my first post on this forum, I asked about about making a dust collector and got really good advice - Dust Separator 101. I'm now looking to buy a container to fit with a Thien Separator. I will be using a 1 HP shop vac. A couple of questions: 1) does the size of the container make a difference, assuming that it is well-sealed? Looks like I can get a drum anywhere from 12 gal. up through 50 gal. 2) the vac hose is about 1.5 inches. With 1 HP, will it be able to draw enough to use 4" tubing? Alternatively, if I use 2" tubing, am I likely to have clogging?

Thanks for all the terrific information on the forum. I'm entering a new world here, and you are providing maps!


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Hank, since you will have to empty this drum when it is full I would tend to go smaller rather than larger. Some prefer larger so they don't have to empty it as often. Personal choice on this one.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

hankh said:


> In my first post on this forum, I asked about about making a dust collector and got really good advice - Dust Separator 101. I'm now looking to buy a container to fit with a Thien Separator. I will be using a 1 HP shop vac. A couple of questions: 1) does the size of the container make a difference, assuming that it is well-sealed? Looks like I can get a drum anywhere from 12 gal. up through 50 gal. 2) the vac hose is about 1.5 inches. With 1 HP, will it be able to draw enough to use 4" tubing? Alternatively, if I use 2" tubing, am I likely to have clogging?
> 
> Thanks for all the terrific information on the forum. I'm entering a new world here, and you are providing maps!


Hank,

Okay... (Hightlighted in red) You have my curiosity. You mentioned 1.5" vacuum hose and 1HP... 

Let me explain my curiosity on that: With that small of hose then saying 1HP, I'm thinking you are referring to a shop vacuum instead of a Dust Collector.

My concern there, making it personal to me and what I have... I have a 2HP Wet Dry Shop Vac. It has 1-1/4" Hose and doesn't move much air. It does okay vacuuming through 1-1/4" vacuum attachments, hooked to a router or Miter saw, but not much else. The vacuum in inches isn't very good on it either. In fact I wonder why I still keep it around, except that it is small and portable. I can take it to jobsites.

Then I have a commercial truck mount wet/dry vacuum. It came with 2" hose. It has 2-stage impellers and pulls 105 inches of vacuum. Just about enough to suck up a bowling ball... Enough that It started to collaspe a steel 35 gallon drum when I was testing it. Motor wise it is 1.8HP. Vacuum wise, it pulls 104.6 inch W/L at 113.9 CFM. If I hook it to a 4" line, the throughout is less. Sort of like doing hydraulics and going from a small cylinder to a large... the "area" affected decreases. It does great on all things I have except my planer and my cabinet saw. This I have set up filtered on top of a 35 gallon barrel with the input hoses setup as a cyclone in the barrel... What it doesn't have in CFM, it makes up for in high vacuum pressure.

Then I have the dust collector. 2HP motor, 7-10 w/l, 1250cfm. It can do any DC needs I have. It doesn't have a lot of vacuum pressure (most DC's don't.) But it has mass airflow.

So all 3 of those say they are rated at around 2HP. There are big differences between those 3. Dust collection itslef works with the particles being suspended in the air as it travels... then separates in the cyclone or theil from centrifugal force and the decrease in air speed, causing the particles to loose suspension and separate from the air...There is actually some physics involved with that and you can tune your separator by regulating the airflow through it. Not enough or too much airflow and the separator doesn't work as well. (And yes, the separator needs to be airtight for it to work.)

So back to that curiosity- What are you using as your vacuum source? If it doesn't have a high enough vacuum pressure -or- high enough CFM, then it won't be able to suspend and carry high volumes or dust or shavings through the hose (will build up and clog).

EDIT-- Example of a disconnect in HP "ratings" for shop vacs: 20 gallon shop vac says it's rated at 6.5 peak HP. But 110volt @ 1200 watts calculates out to 1.046 HP (electrical hp).


----------



## nancysbob (May 8, 2009)

*But . . . with a planer*

Don't know if you've got a planer, but several years ago I quickly learned that the tank for my Shop Vac filled up really fast. With a mid-size steel garbage can, weight has rarely been a problem (but I'm only in my 70's). Also quickly learned that the Rubbermaid trash cans collapsed if I used them.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Bob-

Good point.

I find for me, about 30 to 35 gallons is a good size. Doesn't take up a lot of room. Not really heavy (shavings). Doesn't fill up too fast.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

*Free Drums ANYone?*

Hank,

Mike (MAFoEllfen) knows about 187% more about this subject than do I. One thing that I do know about is how to get great drums (often) for FREE. Locate a chemical plant and let them know what size you need, they will almost always have a room-full of "sample drums" from Container Manufacturers or Container Distributors. Also, If a seamless plastic 55 gallon drum will work for you, check into CAR WASH services - they usually have more than they can get rid of and they often have two holes in the top that will work perfectly for your dust-collection needs. I use a lot of drums in my businesses and I do not think I have ever had to buy one! By the way - don't let the fact that plastic garbage cans have failed in your past cause you to think ALL plastic drums are wimpy! Dependant on the hazard level of the chemicals to be stored, some plastic drums can be quite HEAVY-DUTY! Also, it doesn't take ROCKET-SCIENCE to add a wheeled base for your drum - so *heavy weight* may become less of a concern! Good luck,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

By the way, and somewhat off-subject; did any of you know that *73.8%* of all statistics are MADE-UP-ON-THE-SPOT? It's true - check for yourself!

Otis


----------



## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

OPG3 said:


> By the way, and somewhat off-subject; did any of you know that *73.8%* of all statistics are MADE-UP-ON-THE-SPOT? It's true - check for yourself!
> 
> Otis


Only 25% of the people actually checked to see if that statistic is correct and they are the ones who noted that though the number is correct for 2012 it has increased to 74.33% in2013.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nobody polled _me_; why is that?


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

OPG3 said:


> By the way, and somewhat off-subject; did any of you know that *73.8%* of all statistics are MADE-UP-ON-THE-SPOT? It's true - check for yourself!
> 
> Otis


100% correct.......:dance3:


----------



## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

I built a Thien Separator using a 2" shop vac hose / 2" flexible (Rockler) feed hose setup on a 20 gal round plastic trash can. (Works great - I should pay the guy some money for the design). When using it on a DeWalt planer - no vac is needed, just 40lbs of weight on the lid. (I couldn't find a clamping system that would hold the seal tight and evenly enough for the blower). I also use the separator with the vac attached for the router table and a dust collector bin I build for a Craftsman TS. 

I had to dump the can 4 times when planing some Red Oak for 14 stair treads - the planer fills it fast but for general use on the router and table saw, the capacity is fine. I'm glad I went with 20 gal (I was originally looking at 10 gal) but its also all the size I can afford in my setup. If I were to do it over - I would go with the metal can.

I don't find and issues with the volume or clogging when used with the wood cutting equipment and this size hose. The plastic can does tend to collapse a little when I use it for vacuuming the floor with the 2in hose and a brush end.


----------



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

103.754% of all of your responses have been helpful. :dance3: Thanks. 
Otis's ideas for freebies are great - but I have found a manufacturer nearby where I can buy fiber container with a lever lock sealed lid at a reasonable price. Easier for me than finding chemical plant. I'll build the baffle in the container rather than a top-hat design.


----------



## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

I built a Thien Separator using a 2" shop vac hose / 2" flexible (Rockler) feed hose setup on a 20 gal round plastic trash can. (Works great - I should pay the guy some money for the design). When using it on a DeWalt planer - no vac is needed, just 40lbs of weight on the lid. (I couldn't find a clamping system that would hold the seal tight and evenly enough for the blower). I also use the separator with the vac attached for the router table and a dust collector bin I build for a Craftsman TS. 

I had to dump the can 4 times when planing some Red Oak for 14 stair treads - the planer fills it fast but for general use on the router and table saw, the capacity is fine. I'm glad I went with 20 gal (I was originally looking at 10 gal) but its also all the size I can afford in my setup. If I were to do it over - I would go with the metal can.

I don't find and issues with the volume or clogging when used with the wood cutting equipment and this size hose. The plastic can does tend to collapse a little when I use it for vacuuming the floor with the 2in hose and a brush end.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Jim (Marco),

I am embarassed that you caught me on that statistical error! I apologize to the entire membership for that incorrect percentage. Thanks for pointing it out!

I am not "too proud" to admit when I am wrong!

Hank, At my business of manufacturing concrete forms (Pocket Form Isolator), the warehouse guys have a few of the fiber-containers in-use as waste or recycle cans. The ones we have there are kinda flimsy. Good tip though, and thanks for sharing it!
Also, you mentioned lever-locking lids - those are great for tight, secure fitting!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


----------



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

*Separator works - but dust all over*

Well, I built my Thein separator, using a 69 liter/18 gal. fiber drum with a lever-lock ring. I've attached it to my Bosch 4000 TS with 2" flexible tubing and a 1150 W (220Volt) shop vac on the other side. The vac comes with a 36 mm (internal) diamater hose. I had to improvise the connection between the vac hose and the 2" connector to the DC and at that point the internal diameter goes down to 25 mm. No chance of an air leak. Initially seemed to work great. I don't have any way to measure how much dust stays in the drum and how much goes to the vac - but it seems like there is alot in the drum and not much in the vac. BUT, today, after not much use at all, I find that dust is spewing all over the place - coming back at me from the saw and over the top - in addition to what does go into the drum. Also looks like there is more dust in the vac. I tried to compare on my hand the suction directly from the vac and then from the DC - didn't feel any difference (for whatever that sophisticated scientific test is worth).
Any ideas what is wrong here?


----------



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

I am using a wet/dry shop vac, 220V * 1150 watts. It has a 36 mm (about 1.5") hose. I have it connected to a Thien separator that is connected to my contractor saw (Bosch 4000) with 50 mm (2") flexible tubing. The separator sits in a 19 gal.drum, sealed with a lever-lock lid. I don't think there is any chance of air leak. The separator collects lots of saw dust - but there is sawing spewing off of thh saw, mostly over the table top, some I think from under, but coming back, not dropping to the floor under the saw. 
The first 2 picture are before adjustments from suggestions from on the Thien forum. Others after (lowered the baffle, change angle of inlet, chamfer edge of drop slot). Maybe someone here has some ideas. Thanks


----------



## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

I am using a 30 gal. heavy plastic barrel I got from a local car wash, mine has 4" fittings on it and I really like it.


----------

