# Best material for building drawers ?



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I'm not liking the quality of this 3/4" good one side plywood I'm buying here locally . Seems there's always some warping in areas and I can't see that being productive for building drawers . It was bad enough with my wall cabinets  

I suspect your all going to say Baltic Birch . It's $89 for a 5'/5' sheet of 3/4" BB here but if you have to you have to . 
I have tried building a drawer with 3/4 mdf before but I'm not sure how you guys feel about mdf . 
I want to go with 3/4" because I want to segment the drawers into differant sections , so after I dado in 1/4" deep there won't be a lot of material left if I go with to thin a material . Although I could just lap some pieces and throw them in the drawers so that there size can be changed in the future? 

Btw These are drawers for my garage , not a kitchen

I'm not going to get to fancy with the joints , just do rabbet joints and miter in a slot for the bottom


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I wasn't aware of this but I just seen this on youtube and I think they called it a lock joint and they said it has been known to be stronger than a dove tail joint.
The video didn't explain how to do it but it looks self explanatory to me . 

Ok I watched another video and it showed how to do it . I had it figured out though


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

What kind of 3/4 wood do you have available at your local stores?

I have used white pine and regular birch plywood for shop drawers. For the kitchen, I used poplar and maple planed to 5/8 inch. I don't like the look of 1/2 inch and I didn't want 3/4 inch, so 5/8 it is.

The drawers in my workbench are simple 3/4 inch pine with 1/4 inch bottoms. Simple butt joints, glue and brad nails. They get opened and closed many times every day. Two of them are full of clamps.

Just remember that 1/4 inch plywood is not 1/4 inch. If you cut a 1/4 inch groove, the bottom will be loose.

Good luck.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> What kind of 3/4 wood do you have available at your local stores?
> 
> I have used white pine and regular birch plywood for shop drawers. For the kitchen, I used poplar and maple planed to 5/8 inch. I don't like the look of 1/2 inch and I didn't want 3/4 inch, so 5/8 it is.
> 
> ...


Mike I started realizing they were not using plywood for drawers as I watched videos . I think HD has pine strips which are super straight . I'll see they have it in 3/4 but I am thinking it was 1/2 .
And yes I also had issues with my wall cabinets as 1/2 plywood is thinner that 1/2 when I did the dado at the rear.

I'm very interested in that lock joint after seeing it , so I think I'm going to try it


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## Steve S (Jul 14, 2015)

The off-size plywood is easily handled by router biots made for that purpose, individually, or in a set of the 3 sizes. Alternatively, dadostacked blades with shims can make precise cuts. there is no need or excuse for loose panels in the bottom or elsewhere.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

I know you guys are all into wood, but consider this material for drawers. It can be cut, sanded, shaped, and glued. It is impervious to water and any non-petroleum based liquid. It can be routed and planed. It is a great material to work with!

LINK


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## MorrisonCharles (Feb 13, 2009)

What matrial are you referring to?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Click on the 'link', Charles.

Look at the picture below, Rick. Notice that the finger is 1/2 the thickness of the board? That means way less cutting and a stronger joint than the one shown in your picture.
I'm not sure why they went with such a skinny tenon? I can't think of any advantage over machining one side only?
The other thing is, the back (front) they (your pic) illustrate is massive! Again, no idea why? 
5/8" Birch (4 x 8) is great, but I tend to use 3/4" for everything, except for when I use 1/2"... 
You certainly don't need A2 for shop cabinets! Find a new source for your lumber; HD wouldn't be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice for cabinet building material.

Hardwood Plywood Grades


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

*Pine is fine*

Just regular white pine or whatever they call it these days.

My joinery might not be the norm but it works for me.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Damn, you do nice work, Mike!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Nice work, Mike...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Rick, the locking rabbit joint works well not just because of the lock but the additional glue surfaces help add strength too. Half the thickness of the material is a good idea as Dan mentioned.

You can make this joint very quickly with a Router Workshop style box joint jig and a solid carbide spiral up cut bit. MLCS and Peachtree both offer individual jigs or sets to make 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" box joints. This way you only have one set up. You also get to make box joints the easiest way possible, sliding dovetail joints, angled box joints... many uses.

The basket and two tone clock are Router Workshop samples; the single color wood clock is mine.


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## Guitfiddle (Dec 14, 2014)

Regarding drawer sides and back, I have had good luck using Poplar or Aspen (a little cheaper). Any of the joints discussed here works well with these.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Current Issue of Wood Magazine shows how to cut this joint on a router table using a Slot Cutting Bit.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys the guys at WP say to go with 1/2 BB . I just can't see a lock joint being very strong with plywood, or is it just me?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys the guys at WP say to go with 1/2 BB . I just can't see a lock joint being very strong with plywood, or is it just me?



Trust the glue. Butt joints do fine as long as they are not overloaded.

The miter joints with the router bit just helps keep things aligned until the glue dries and provides more surfaced area for the joint.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys the guys at WP say to go with 1/2 BB . I just can't see a lock joint being very strong with plywood, or is it just me?


I've made all my drawers out of 1/2" plywood with lock joints and they have worked just fine. I don't have access to baltic birch so I just use the better grade of ply from the big box stores.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys the guys at WP say to go with 1/2 BB . I just can't see a lock joint being very strong with plywood, or is it just me?


Rick, all my shop drawers (including the router table) are made with 12 mm birch ply (it's not quite BB, but close) and lock rabbet joints. It's like 50 USD for a 4x8 sheet at the local hardwood store. Super easy to cut with a 1/4" spiral or straight bit on the router table. You have to be a little careful with assembly but once glued they are really strong. 6 mm ply or similar for the bottoms except the really big drawers - then I use 12mm. Tightbond II.

I considered using 3/4" on the sides but I'm kind of a minimalist - like to see how little material I can use.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Phil: absolutely. 
I have been leery about the 1/2" for drawer sides, _not because there's any strength issue in my mind_, but I worry about the drawer slide mounting screws working loose...there's not much material to grab there.
I refuse to buy BB in 5' x 5' sheets. Won't go _in_ my van and I'm not sticking it up on top, exposed to weather and rope friction marks. Just not going to happen. There must be some logic as to why they came up with that format(?).


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I used 3/4 pine and pocket hole screws and glue, for my kitchen cabinet drawers. 3+ years now and going strong.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

KOliver thats exactly what i wanted to see . Very nice work btw .
Dang it as I just bought a big piece of solid pine 3/4 board an hour ago . Guess I'll do ply on the next project


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Hey Rick. Need a helper or two for your cabinet and drawer building?

Check this out.
Home


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@N'awlins77...

nice work...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> Check this out.
> Home


beats the snot out of the breakable/flexible plastic ones...
they give the speed square method a run for their money...

speed square have the benefit of being able to multi task...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Joe Jones said:


> I know you guys are all into wood, but consider this material for drawers. It can be cut, sanded, shaped, and glued. It is impervious to water and any non-petroleum based liquid. It can be routed and planed. It is a great material to work with!
> 
> LINK


that stuff sags all on it's own and doesn't do weight support well...
and it's heavy...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Damn, you do nice work, Mike!


agreed....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Gaffboat...

just in case I have never mentioned that you do clean quality work....
I would like to take this time to do just that.....


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @Gaffboat...
> 
> just in case I have never mentioned that you do clean quality work....
> I would like to take this time to do just that.....


Thanks, Stick. I've noticed my work has improved as my shop gets more and more organized. It makes a real difference when everything has a place and you know just where to reach for it ... and put it away when you're done with it. I tend to put tools away, even if when I know I'll need them in another half hour, so I can keep my work area free of clutter that distracts from the project at hand.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'd love to see Oliver and Mike (MTS) do a joint build of something.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Hey Rick. Need a helper or two for your cabinet and drawer building?
> 
> Check this out.
> Home


Those are quite interesting after watching the video , and could have helped already . Yet another simple concept that someone probably made millions off of


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Hey Rick. Need a helper or two for your cabinet and drawer building?
> 
> Check this out.
> Home


They say there available at LV but I can't find them there . Sure expensive for what you get lol . But worth it's weight in gold when it saves you from frustration I guess


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

They act as a helper to hold your workpiece while you fiddle with the other one. :grin:


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Gaffboat said:


> I tend to put tools away, even if when I know I'll need them in another half hour, so I can keep my work area free of clutter that distracts from the project at hand.


I have been working really hard to do that too. Probably not as successfully as you but it does help a lot. Having an uncluttered work area is worth a little extra effort.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> I have been working really hard to do that too. Probably not as successfully as you but it does help a lot. Having an uncluttered work area is worth a little extra effort.


Phil it's driving me crazy . I spend more time looking for tools than working on a project . Usually get so exhausted that I give up and call it a day , so I've gotta make things a little better where it's fun to work on projects again


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

N'awlins77 said:


> I used 3/4 pine and pocket hole screws and glue, for my kitchen cabinet drawers. 3+ years now and going strong.


That looks sweet Lee , great work


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

daninvan said:


> i'd love to see oliver and mike (mts) do a joint build of something.


x2


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I'd love to see Oliver and Mike (MTS) do a joint build of something.


Ha ha, I'd just get in his way. :grin:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nah, you guys would make a fantastic team!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Nah, you guys would make a fantastic team!


you referee,,,


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> you referee,,,


I can't think of two members that are _more_ complimentary.
It'd be those trades buddies that have worked together for years. 0


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> They say there available at LV but I can't find them there . Sure expensive for what you get lol . But worth it's weight in gold when it saves you from frustration I guess


I have had some Jevons 3D Squares for several years and use them often. In addition to squaring up corners, I have used them to hold a photo backdrop vertically on my workbench, hold pieces vertically to help visualize the next step, and hold drawer slides in place while I screw them. They are very rigid, the side that rests against the work is machined to be perfectly flat, and they are thin enough to use spring clamps to hold them. I think they were well worth the purchase price.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Here's the Lee Valley thingamabobs...
90° Assembly Braces - Lee Valley Tools


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Here's the Lee Valley thingamabobs...
> 90° Assembly Braces - Lee Valley Tools


US$30.95 at Amazon, free shipping if you have Prime 3D Squares (2) - Clamps - Amazon.com I have a pair of the Rockler's and have used them for a couple of years with no problem, although I only really use them to hold the corners square/tight while I put in the fasteners. The back is used to square up the final cabinet so I usually don't clamp the joint for that long. I just bought a pair of the Woodpeckers Box Clamps as they were on sale, thinking that they would be good for holding a drawer box corner in alignment while putting in the pocket screws.

Tom


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

plan ''C''...
plastic.. 2/3 bucks and up...
metal... 5/6 bucks and up...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Not the same thing, Stick. Those LV ones are specifically for clamping to.
That LV $37.50 is in Canadian $$$ ...should be less in the US.
But Tom's right, cheaper from Amazon.com and they look identical.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have had a pair from Rockler for years. They certainly help to hold a piece in place when it comes to assembly time. I even have several that are shop made. They are not very glamorous, but they work also.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Here's the Lee Valley thingamabobs...
> 90° Assembly Braces - Lee Valley Tools


Thanks Dan , I have no idea why I couldn't figure that out but I couldn't .
So while I'm there is there any preference for the clamps I should be ordering to , like the ones shown ?
Or are those small ones all kind of the same quality ?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Can't Have Too Many*

Some of each, Rick! >


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I sure wish I had those 45's now . Should have ordered them when I had the chance .

Guys when I build these locking rabbet joints , how tight is to tight when it comes to getting enough glue in them . I kinda like when there pressed firmly together as there pretty much at a 90 degree angle off the hop , but I suspect there won't be a lot of glue helping if the lock joint is to tight ?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Well I sure wish I had those 45's now . Should have ordered them when I had the chance .
> 
> Guys when I build these locking rabbet joints , how tight is to tight when it comes to getting enough glue in them . I kinda like when there pressed firmly together as there pretty much at a 90 degree angle off the hop , but I suspect there won't be a lot of glue helping if the lock joint is to tight ?


If you have to pound the pieces to get them seated, then they are too tight in tolerances. You have to have a "little" slop for the glue. All you want is a very slight friction fit, make sure you SPREAD the glue so it makes contact with the whole piece. If you get just a hint of squeeze out then you are probably OK.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Bill . I like things tight as it keeps everything straight right off the hop , but there's no room for glue that way so I knew I was doing it wrong . 
I need a differant hobby as this one is to frustrating


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Bill . I like things tight as it keeps everything straight right off the hop , but there's no room for glue that way so I knew I was doing it wrong .
> I need a differant hobby as this one is to frustrating


Practice, practice, practice!


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## Guitfiddle (Dec 14, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Not the same thing, Stick. Those LV ones are specifically for clamping to.
> That LV $37.50 is in Canadian $$$ ...should be less in the US.
> But Tom's right, cheaper from Amazon.com and they look identical.


Just ordered the ones on Amazon - $28.46 pr. free no rush ship or prime. Looked at the LV ones - identical - much more.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guitfiddle said:


> Just ordered the ones on Amazon - $28.46 pr. free no rush ship or prime. Looked at the LV ones - identical - much more.


Could you post the link . The bad news is Amazon.ca probably won't have them . With exchange customs duty taxes and shipping , the price doubles by the time it's gets here


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Here's the Lee Valley thingamabobs...
> 90° Assembly Braces - Lee Valley Tools


those look exactly like Simpson Strong-tie connectors.....
5 bucks each...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> those look exactly like Simpson Strong-tie connectors.....
> 5 bucks each...


Geez the ones from LV are a little more pricey :fie: 
I wish I ordered 4 right about now as I want to build drawers this week for my work bench . Had an Irwin 90 degree clamp strip on me already . Should have kept the receipt I guess as I doubt WP is going to take it back otherwise . Liking there other clamps but as for there 90's forget it


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

Re 90- degree braces for glue ups.

For What It is Worth: Once made some 90 degree corner braces from scrap 3/4" plyw'd for a project. 

Laminated together 2 strips of 3/4" ply about 8" wide, 36"/42" long. After glue dried, cut into 8x8" squares, then cut a 45 degree on the miter saw to separate. Bored a 2"(??) hole in each "arm" to hold clamps and at the 90 degree corner cut off about 1/2" to clear the glue/joint.

Using my Tried and True Starrett adjustable square, the angles were 90 and 45 degrees. 'Sorta' surprised me that they were dead nuts on and came in handy for another project. Probably should make up some more JIC (Just In Case) I ever need them again.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Worth a try...*



Stick486 said:


> those look exactly like Simpson Strong-tie connectors.....
> 5 bucks each...


By a strange coincidence Stick, I noticed those last week at the lumberyard...I was thinking exactly the same as you!
Simpson Strong Tie catalog screen shot...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> By a strange coincidence Stick, I noticed those last week at the lumberyard...I was thinking exactly the same as you!
> Simpson Strong Tie catalog screen shot...


they have ones that are right angle only and not triangle that range in thickness from 12GA to 6GA...

look for Reinforced Angle Brackets


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I know, but I couldn't find them in their catalog. You need to know either the cat.#, or what they call them, to find them. It'll be faster to just drive up to the lumberyard than to spend any more time in that SST catalogue!
I'll buy a couple when I'm in town tomorrow (if I remember); can't hurt to have a couple in stock, eh? 



_"Mr. Escher; call waiting on line 3..."_


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

grab one of their catalogs when yur there...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I gotta make some of these corner clamps, using wedges to hold parts in place. Need 16 for two drawers but they're virtually free.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> I gotta make some of these corner clamps, using wedges to hold parts in place. Need 16 for two drawers but they're virtually free.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSX2Pp-KdZk


not a bad idea actually


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here's another idea from Serge.
Drawer & Box Assembly Jig - by Bricofleur @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Simpson Strong Tie Brackets*



Stick486 said:


> grab one of their catalogues when yur there...


_No brackets, no catalogues; no joy. 
Can you post a cat. #, Stick?_


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> _No brackets, no catalogues; no joy.
> Can you post a cat. #, Stick?_


Download the catalog from here. Bottom left of the page.


Simpson Strong-Tie®


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I spent over an hour last night with that .pdf, Bill. Found brackets, but not the ones Stick was talking about!
The lumberyard I checked today had a ratty old catalogue from 2012 hanging in the warehouse. Even less use than the online one.
Two hours wasted; I'll just buy the LV ones.

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/71609-best-material-building-drawers-6.html#post762441


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

thanks for handling Bill...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I spent over an hour last night with that .pdf, Bill. Found brackets, but not the ones Stick was talking about!
> The lumberyard I checked today had a ratty old catalogue from 2012 hanging in the warehouse. Even less use than the online one.
> Two hours wasted; I'll just buy the LV ones.
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/71609-best-material-building-drawers-6.html#post762441


Try this:

SBV/CF-R Shelf Brackets/Concrete Form Angles


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nope, not them. Those I posted yesterday.
http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/71609-best-material-building-drawers-6.html#post762361
But, having said that, there were some other brand heavy brackets at the yard. I checked them with a framing sq. Not square by maybe 3deg. out.
So back to the LV ones...they're _milled_ to .002" accuracy I believe. You want accurate there's no shortcut. 
I'd bet the SST ones are stamped, end of story.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I gotta do every thing...

New Cold-Formed Steel Products from Simpson Strong-Tie


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm just gonna stick w/ my major versatile KISS/Miss speed squares...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Here's the Lee Valley thingamabobs...
> 90° Assembly Braces - Lee Valley Tools


^^^Well I should have ordered a half dozen of these and been done with it . There not the quickest at shipping I find as it usually takes over a week . To bad there not available on Amazon.ca as I could have them much quicker . 

Elite tools has super fast shipping and I found the Rockler version there but I swear there's a conspiracy against me as there out of stock 

Rockler Clamp-it 29190| Elite Tools


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok I guess they have the smaller version in stock 

Rockler Mini Clamp-It? Assembly Square | Elite Tools


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't see why this wouldn't work. Easy and cheeep. Just a couple of 2x4's attached at 90 deg to each other. They hold the box in place while you fasten the upper part of the two pieces.

Actually, I have done this very thing many times. It does help if you have one of those fancy 90's to help hold things in place while you drive your screws or nails.

Just a temporary table top or your work bench with the 2x's clamped or screwed in place.
Not elegant, but it does help.

The pic of my setup shows a board on the left side held in place by bolts in the T Tracks. A couple of the Kreg plastic thingies (Klamp blocks) also help keep the board lined up.
Mike


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> I don't see why this wouldn't work. Easy and cheeep. Just a couple of 2x4's attached at 90 deg to each other. They hold the box in place while you fasten the upper part of the two pieces.
> 
> Actually, I have done this very thing many times. It does help if you have one of those fancy 90's to help hold things in place while you drive your screws or nails.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike, you just inspired me! I just checked, and the Rockler Clamp blocks will take a 1/4" bolt in the center or either end. I can use a bolt and knob to attach one or two clamp blocks to the T tracks I just added to my el-chepo HF bench in my humble effort to emulate you!


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Ratbob said:


> Thanks Mike, you just inspired me! I just checked, and the Rockler Clamp blocks will take a 1/4" bolt in the center or either end. I can use a bolt and knob to attach one or two clamp blocks to the T tracks I just added to my el-chepo HF bench in my humble effort to emulate you!


Jeff, curiosity got the best of me. I just went out in the shop (1AM) and tried one of the Kreg Klamp blocks in regular T Track. They work just fine. Each one comes with a T bolt and small black knob to tighten the block in place.

Hope this helps.

Mike


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> Jeff, curiosity got the best of me. I just went out in the shop (1AM) and tried one of the Kreg Klamp blocks in regular T Track. They work just fine. Each one comes with a T bolt and small black knob to tighten the block in place.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike, I've got 4 of the Rockler clamp-it assembly squares already. Now I just need to use a bolt and knob to fasten them to the table, nothing more to buy! Now I can use the clamp-its just like you described using 2x4s above.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Nope, not them. Those I posted yesterday.
> http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/71609-best-material-building-drawers-6.html#post762361
> But, having said that, there were some other brand heavy brackets at the yard. I checked them with a framing sq. Not square by maybe 3deg. out.
> So back to the LV ones...they're _milled_ to .002" accuracy I believe. You want accurate there's no shortcut.
> I'd bet the SST ones are stamped, end of story.


Dan,

Try Woodpeckers for their clamping angles. They are on sale and cheaper and more versatile then the LV's

Woodpeck.com for Router Tables, Router Lifts, Router Bits, Precision Squares, Fine Woodworking Tools, Whiteside Router Bits and Kreg Tools.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No Woodpeckers in Canada, lots of woodpeckers though.
With the Cdn. $ at $.76 to the US, cross-border shopping is getting to be a pain.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have decided that if I build any more drawers for the shop, I will use either 2x4 or 2x6 stock.

- cut to approximate length leaving a little extra length; minimum length to be at least 16 inches.
- rip off the rounded edges
- clean 'em up on the joiner or planer.
- using the table saw, rip each one in half leaving two pieces just shy of 3/4 inch (using a ripping blade (24T).
- edge glue for whatever the desired drawer stock requirement might be plus a little extra.
- plane 'em down to 5/8 inch thickness or even 1/2 if you so desire.

heh, heh...the lumber pile will get a little smaller.

Example below shows panels made from pallet timbers that were 2x4 rough pine. They turned out nice.
Mike


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I used 2x4's to make the sides for the trays in my Drill Press Cabinet, and was a little disappointed at the results. I cut my strips in the short direction - 1/2" thick x 1-1/2" high - which may have made a difference. Even running the strips through the planer and finishing with the spindle sander (sure wish that I still had access to a thickness sander), the results were less than I'd hoped. On the other hand, these were short offcuts that I had lying around the shop, and a lot of them had been used so I have nail/screw holes to fill, and I used an economy rip blade that I'd bought to rip treated wood so that too may have had an effect. Maybe using a better grade of 2x4 would have given better results.

I pretty much used poplar when I made wooden drawers, planed down to 5/8" and dovetailed, although most drawers now are 1/2" baltic birch. I've also used the pre-made stock that's particle board with a vinyl wrap, either white or wood grain, and had pretty good results with that - used them on platform beds that I was making, turned out a lot of them back then.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mike and Tom , great work ! 

Guys I think me needs a jointer and a planer . Or insulation ?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

rainman1 said:


> mike and tom , great work !
> 
> Guys i think me needs a jointer and a planer . Or insulation ?


*Insulation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hey Rick,

Did Bill mention the insulation? >>>

Theory is that more comfortable workshop will make you want to spend more time in it.:grin::grin::grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old55 said:


> Hey Rick,
> 
> Did Bill mention the insulation? >>>
> 
> Theory is that more comfortable workshop will make you want to spend more time in it.:grin::grin::grin:


Geez I want to see if the moderators can make the site interpret "insulation" as profanity and not let it post it lol


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Geez I want to see if the moderators can make the site interpret "insulation" as profanity and not let it post it lol


*Insulation, Insulation, Insulation, Insulation
*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Fibreglass*

*Procrastination, Procrastination, Procrastination*

:grin:


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Rick,

I think the boys are still giving you a gentle reminder>>>. 

If they (mods) made the word 'insulation' a profanity then we would have to keep giving you reminders like 'Rick what about the vulgar or irreverent speech or action'.:nerd::nerd:

At least its all in good fun. 

There aren't many places like this forum and the people on it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*It's all fun...*

"Gentle"?! 0


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "Gentle"?! 0


sometimes ya just need a bigger hammer....


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> sometimes ya just need a bigger hammer....


I'm afraid, you'll just hurt the hammer. >>>


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> I'm afraid, you'll just hurt the hammer. >>>


got suggestions ???...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> got suggestions ???...


Electroshock therapy:grin:.

Wait, some folks I know would like that! Let me think about an alternative.:wink:

How about a swim party, with a board, a cloth, and a bucket?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Electroshock therapy:grin:.
> 
> Wait, some folks I know would like that! Let me think about an alternative.:wink:
> 
> How about a swim party, with a board, a cloth, and a bucket?


that's no big deal...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Depends whose on the board...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oops...make that '_who's_'


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I did break down and buy a sheet of 3/4 BB and 3/8 BB for drawers . Took next week off and hoping to get my work bench cabinets done . Then it's the bathroom Reno , then if it's not to cold it's insulating the garage :fie:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Goldilocks and the Three Bears*

"... *then if it's not to cold* ..."

Bwaahaahaaaa..... :sarcastic:


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> "... *then if it's not to cold* ..."
> 
> Bwaahaahaaaa..... :sarcastic:


Yeah, Rick cracked a funny :lol:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> Yeah, Rick cracked a funny :lol:


Well that's what's happened the last 15 years lol . Wish I was exaggerating


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Rick, trust us when we say we _believe_ you!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> Rick, trust us when we say we _believe_ you!


Well in my defence I did work in there at -10C for about 3 hours in a T-shirt and bibs and found it acceptable . As long as there's no wind it's not terrible .I just get tired of putting all paint and glue back in the basement in October


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Hey guys; the woods stuck together and I didn't even need glue!"


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "Hey guys; the woods stuck together and I didn't even need glue!"


That's because...*IT'S ALL FROZEN TOGETHER*


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm sure Rick has his unthawing technique down to an art. He's been doing it for 15 years. 
(Just pile it in the living room; problem solved!)


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*Sigh!*


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Rick here is an idea I ran accross on the web to organize drill motors.
Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Rick here is an idea I ran accross on the web to organize drill motors.
> Herb


That's actually a pretty good idea


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> Phil: absolutely.
> I refuse to buy BB in 5' x 5' sheets. Won't go _in_ my van and I'm not sticking it up on top, exposed to weather and rope friction marks. Just not going to happen. There must be some logic as to why they came up with that format(?).


4' x 8' format uses an exterior use glue between layers. 5' x 5' uses an interior use glue between layers. Bits and blades stay much cleaner with the 5' x 5' ply. I've found the 5' x 5' to have much less voids and warp less, but I haven't used 10+ sheets.

Steve.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks, Steve; I haven't experienced any of those issues with the Birch ply I've been buying from PJ White. 
I'm not suggesting they're not a problem, just that it hasn't been with the product I've been buying (not from the Orient).
I did not know that about the non-waterproof glue in the BB... Good to know!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

SteveMI said:


> 4' x 8' format uses an exterior use glue between layers. 5' x 5' uses an interior use glue between layers. Bits and blades stay much cleaner with the 5' x 5' ply. I've found the 5' x 5' to have much less voids and warp less, but I haven't used 10+ sheets.
> 
> Steve.


Thanks Steve , that's good to know. I just find it awkward trying to grab and lift a piece of material that's 5'/5' . Doesn't fit well in a truck box in my situation either


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Steve , that's good to know. I just find it awkward trying to grab and lift a piece of material that's 5'/5' . Doesn't fit well in a truck box in my situation either


Don't think the 5' x 5' sits on top of the wheel wells? It's been a while but I think I slid the sheets in on an angle with one edge on top of the wheel well and the other on the edge of the truck bed.

Another downside is the waste - base cabinets are typically 24" deep, drawers are 21" so you get two sides and are left with a little less than 18". OK if the cabinet is that narrow, but there's a lot of 12" leftovers if the cabinet is 24". One of the programs that optimize use of a sheet of plywood would probably help, but you'd probably have to accept some of the grain being crosswise - not a problem, other than aesthetic with the BB.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Tom that is the reason I made my shelving 11 -1/2" is because of waste . My truck (Ford Raptor) has a Back Flip tonneau cover which I think takes away a few inches of width , but just fits if your persuasive . I have these factory box extentions so it conflicts with those too and has to be slid in above the tailgate .Two guys are almost necessary .
With 4/8 there's no issues though , just that frigging 5/5

I do have trailer but haven't spent the 75 bucks to register it this year


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

SteveMI said:


> 4' x 8' format uses an exterior use glue between layers. 5' x 5' uses an interior use glue between layers. Bits and blades stay much cleaner with the 5' x 5' ply. I've found the 5' x 5' to have much less voids and warp less, but I haven't used 10+ sheets.
> 
> Steve.


are the 4x8 and 5x5 sheets the same plywood other than dimension...
or is the 4x8 standard birch ply and the 5x5 Baltic Birch???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

From the first link...
"Baltic birch plywood is unique because of it’s all-birch veneer core that’s crossbanded
and laminated with *exterior grade glue*"

Well, that's _one_ misconception taken care of.

The *5'x5'* is still a roadblock however... (doesn't matter that it's produced if it's not available at my end.)
PJ White Hardwoods Ltd.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Phil: absolutely.
> *I have been leery about the 1/2" for drawer sides*, _not because there's any strength issue in my mind_, but I worry about the drawer slide mounting screws working loose...there's not much material to grab there.
> *I refuse to buy BB in 5' x 5' sheets.* Won't go _in_ my van and I'm not sticking it up on top, exposed to weather and rope friction marks. Just not going to happen. *There must be some logic as to why* they came up with that format(?).


1/2'' sides... don't be.. BB holds hardware really well under duress... even better than solid wood..
use a truss headed SM screw....

5x5... go w/ Apple ply then... it's made just south of you...

logic... it's engineered to fit European construction/architecture w/ minimal waste...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

SteveMI said:


> 4' x 8' format uses an exterior use glue between layers. * 5' x 5' uses an interior use glue between layers*. Bits and blades stay much cleaner with the 5' x 5' ply. I've found the 5' x 5' to have much less voids and warp less, but I haven't used 10+ sheets.
> 
> Steve.


4x8 panels isn't true Baltic birch...it's birch plywood....

there are many differences between off-the- shelf birch plywood and true Baltic birch. The first one’s easy to see:* Baltic birch plywood has about twice the number of plys as birch plywood*, and usually the *plys are made entirely of birch*. All those plys and glue layers create a high density, extremely strong and generally flat product. Baltic birch is manufactured in several thicknesses and normally in 5-ft. x 5-ft. sheets.

The birch veneer plywood you find at home centers or lumberyards is really only birch on the surface. The substrate plys are made of poplar or other hardwood. The veneer strata are thicker, and with fewer ply layers there are fewer glue layers. It’s not as stiff as Baltic birch, but it’s also not as heavy.

this applies to the real deal BB ply... not the chinese junk knock offs...

*Baltic Birch....* BALTIC BIRCH PLYWOOD

Region of origin – As the name implies, Baltic Birch plywood is produced from Birch trees from the Baltic region of Europe. The two main producers appear to be Russia & Finland.

Thickness – True Baltic Birch plywood only comes in metric thicknesses. The most common sizes found in North America are 6mm, 12mm, & 18mm. Additionally 3mm, 9mm, 15mm, & 25mm can occasionally be found in a narrower range of grades.

Size – You used to only be able to find Baltic Birch plywood in 5’x5′ sheets. Recently people have reported finding 4’x8′ sheets. Supposedly Manufactures have become wise to the fact that plywood comes in 4’x8′ sheets in North America, and have started producing to that size.

Plies – Baltic Birch plywood has more plies for a given thickness that North American plywood. Additionally every ply is birch, unlike a lot of plywood of North American origin that has hardwood exterior & softwood interior plys. The following chart list ply count by thickness.

3mm – 3 ply
6mm – 5 ply
9mm – 7ply
12mm – 9 ply
15mm – 11 ply
18mm – 13 ply
25mm – 18 ply

Grading – Baltic Birch does not follow ANSI grading standards most are familiar with, instead the following grading scheme is used. A typical grade found in quality furniture is B/BB.

Grade “B” – Selected one-piece face generally light and even in color. Occasional small pin knots and some brown streaks may be allowed. Intended for natural finish. No patches allowed.
Grade “BB” – One-piece face generally light and even in color. Occasional sound tight knots are permitted but open knots and defects in BB have been cut out and replaced with small ovular or round veneer patches before gluing. The veneer selected for the patches is of the same general color as the basic face veneer.
Grade “CP” – One-piece face very close to grade BB. Rejected from BB for small defects with more streaking. Occasional hairline splits of less than .5mm are allowed. The oval or round patches may or may not be matched for color with the base face veneer. There will normally be more patches per face than the BB grade.
Grade “C” – One-piece utility grade veneer. Open defects and open splits are allowed.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Thanks, Steve; I haven't experienced any of those issues with the Birch ply I've been buying from PJ White.
> I'm not suggesting they're not a problem, just that it hasn't been with the product I've been buying (not from the Orient).
> I did not know that about the *non-waterproof glue* in the BB... Good to know!


glue.. not true...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

here's a good read...

PLYWOOD


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Tom that is the reason I made my shelving 11 -1/2" is because of waste . My truck (Ford Raptor) has a Back Flip tonneau cover which I think takes away a few inches of width , but just fits if your persuasive . I have these factory box extentions so it conflicts with those too and has to be slid in above the tailgate .Two guys are almost necessary .
> With 4/8 there's no issues though , just that frigging 5/5
> 
> I do have trailer but haven't spent the 75 bucks to register it this year


If it doesn't fit, you must . . . notch a couple 2x4s and stretch them across the truck bed, load it up, and use ratchet straps to hold everything down.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ratbob said:


> If it doesn't fit, you must . . . notch a couple 2x4s and stretch them across the truck bed, load it up, and use ratchet straps to hold everything down.


That's a pretty cool idea Jeff . Never would have thought of that one


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> 4x8 panels isn't true Baltic birch...it's birch plywood....
> 
> there are many differences between off-the- shelf birch plywood and true Baltic birch. The first one’s easy to see:* Baltic birch plywood has about twice the number of plys as birch plywood*, and usually the *plys are made entirely of birch*. All those plys and glue layers create a high density, extremely strong and generally flat product. Baltic birch is manufactured in several thicknesses and normally in 5-ft. x 5-ft. sheets.
> 
> ...


We really need to either make BB and other materials their own section or at least get them stickys IMO.

A library on other materials than just wood and bits would be a step in the right direction. I did a search and I only really found wood species section and little else.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

timbertailor said:


> We really need to either make BB and other materials their own section or at least get them stickys IMO.
> 
> A library on other materials than just wood and bits would be a step in the right direction. I did a search and I only really found wood species section and little else.


talk to the moderators...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...1/2'' sides... don't be.. BB holds hardware really well under duress... even better than solid wood..
use a truss headed SM screw...."
-Stick

That'd be great, but as I previously explained, 5' x 5' BB isn't coming my way any time soon. And I hate the format...
(To be fair, PJ White _will_ do a bi-weekly drop off at my place, when they're doing their cabinet shop deliveries up here.
$75 delivery charge...flat fee, no matter how much I order. Makes sense; no complaint from me.)


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks Steve , that's good to know. I just find it awkward trying to grab and lift a piece of material that's 5'/5' . Doesn't fit well in a truck box in my situation either


I have them cut it to 4X5, or 3X2, or rip off a specified size if that works better. I am with you I can't handle or haul a 5X5.

Also found it at the lunber yard in 4X8, and Russin Birch, not qiute as nice as BB ,but close in 4X8.
Herb


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## dawind99 (Mar 31, 2009)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I'm not liking the quality of this 3/4" good one side plywood I'm buying here locally . Seems there's always some warping in areas and I can't see that being productive for building drawers . It was bad enough with my wall cabinets
> 
> I suspect your all going to say Baltic Birch . It's $89 for a 5'/5' sheet of 3/4" BB here but if you have to you have to .
> I have tried building a drawer with 3/4 mdf before but I'm not sure how you guys feel about mdf .
> ...


I've used 1/2" baltic birch BB for years with good results. Depending on your dimensions 4x8 sheets of 1/2" Okume would work as well. I pay @ 83 a sheet for the Okume. The Okume is marine grade, same ply number in both 1/2 and 3/4 and less than 3/4 the weight of baltic, no voids and joints and takes glue well. The marine grade is nice if your using it in a high humidity environs or anywhere it may see water.


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## mudcat (May 3, 2011)

I followed your link to the PVC materials. Don't be so trusting. Think about the PVC pipe you have used. It is true that it doesn't warp due to moisture. But warp it will. The PVC is extruded in a hot semi-melted state. Therefore it build up considerable internal stresses. You can easily test all this with a 1/4" thick sheet as it has the more dominate lateral stresses. Heat it up in oven to about 120 degrees F (the actual testing temperature used in the test labs is 70 deg C). Watch it warp. Sawing PVC is generally ok, but if you route with an ogee or cut dovetails the cutting will locally heat the material. 5 -9 days later you will see the joint start to separate.

Also on a theory level PVC is a "plastic" the whole definition of plastic is a material that will constantly deform. A plastic is not stable by definition. (actually neither is glass; but its deformation in measured in 1000 years rather than 10 years)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

@mudcat

Welcome to the forum . It would great to have a first name to call you by if you had time to fill out your profile


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Mudcat.


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## bernieke (Jun 21, 2011)

I use 9mm poplar plywood, with a boxframe-like bottom, and 3mm plywood glued to it. Makes for a very sturdy drawer.


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## dhellyar (Oct 6, 2010)

RainMan1, the joint shown here in this Wood magazine is more correctly called a tongue and dado and it is a very strong joint, much more than a rabbet joint would be. I've used that joint on hundreds of drawers and I've yet to have a failure. I've used 3/4 inch dual sided melamine before for drawers and they hold up very well, and are easy to clean, when needed. But then I also have a panel saw with a scoring blade which helps to cut the melamine without chipping, so you may not elect to use that material. and then you'd also have to do edge banding as well , which can be a hassle. Although it is less expensive than any plywood you can purchase. We're getting it here in So. Cal for under $30.00 US currency for a 4 x 8 sheet. I mainly like using the 1/2 inch prefinished Baltic Birch Plywood for all sizes of drawers. Even if you dado into the side for segmenting you wont' weaken the drawer if you glue the dividers properly. It makes a nice strong, but light drawer. You can usually purchase 5 ft lengths in various widths from a cabinet makers supply store, which will usually sell to the general public. Most shops here only supply the 8 and 12 inch widths, which have rounded edges on bottom and top. Unless your making a huge drawer box to fill with metal clamps or something really heavy then I wouldn't use any Baltic Birch thicker than 1/ 2 inch,as I found over the years that it usually results in a heavier drawer box with little to no extra strength. I have made several big drawers for that use and I made them out of a better quality 3/4 ply, which I also fitted with two ball bearing slides per side for extra strength( it's less expensive than purchasing extra heavy duty slides). The Baltic birch stock is much better than real wood since it is much more stable and thus much less prone to movement from moisture etc.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum dhellyar and thanks for the post. I already purchases a sheet of 3/4 so I'm kinda stuck there , and 3/8 BB for the bottom . Wish I could see the joint your reffering to but you need ten posts before you can paste URLs . You can upload off your HD though .

I did some locking rabbet joints recently and I think there pretty strong


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## torema (Dec 4, 2014)

(Second try at this reply. Having account issue!!)
These images have changed my thoughts about drawers and cabinets in the shop. First of all they don't have to be anything like a drawer or cabinet we would build for a kitchen. These images shows drawers made with much thicker sides than we might use in the kitchen and the joints are made for strength, not looks. These drawers are made to hold things that are heavy and sometimes sharp. Everything I can see of the surrounding bench/cabinets says rugged and durable. I do have to ask, however, what the bottoms are made of and how they are held in the sides/ends? (I love the handles, by-the-way. These are far more useful in opening a drawer full of hammers than would be some fancy architect designed pull!)


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## JeffeVerde (Dec 10, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> 4x8 panels isn't true Baltic birch...it's birch plywood....
> 
> there are many differences between off-the- shelf birch plywood and true Baltic birch. The first one’s easy to see:* Baltic birch plywood has about twice the number of plys as birch plywood*, and usually the *plys are made entirely of birch*. All those plys and glue layers create a high density, extremely strong and generally flat product. Baltic birch is manufactured in several thicknesses and normally in 5-ft. x 5-ft. sheets.
> 
> ...


My local lumberyard stocks 13-ply 3/4" (18mm) Finnish BB in 4x8 sheets.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

torema said:


> (Second try at this reply. Having account issue!!)
> These images have changed my thoughts about drawers and cabinets in the shop. First of all they don't have to be anything like a drawer or cabinet we would build for a kitchen. These images shows drawers made with much thicker sides than we might use in the kitchen and the joints are made for strength, not looks. These drawers are made to hold things that are heavy and sometimes sharp. Everything I can see of the surrounding bench/cabinets says rugged and durable. I do have to ask, however, what the bottoms are made of and how they are held in the sides/ends? (I love the handles, by-the-way. These are far more useful in opening a drawer full of hammers than would be some fancy architect designed pull!)


I am going to use 3/4" Baltic birch for the sides and I bought 3/8" Baltic birch for the bottom . I'm very confused because I was going to dado the inside perimeter of the 3/4 so that the bottom snapped in. I wanted to glue the bottom in the dadoed area but I'm hearing not to because of expansion and contraction . But I think I read you can glue the ends of the bottoms ? 
I think I'll glue it all up and take my chances :|


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I think 3/4" stock for drawers is a bulky overkill, unless they huge drawers that are going to have lots of heavy stuff put in them.

I would use 1/2" or 3/8" for sides... 1/4" bottom... 
Use plain old glued BUTT joints (with plywood, you do not have end-grain gluing problems) Everything could be glued... even the bottom.

I would also use a Drawer Face Front (of probably solid Project wood) glued to front of drawer.

With this Plywood Drawer (100%), there is no such thing as Expansion / Contraction problems...
... only for the front Face... if you think there is a problem there; I don't think so...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JeffeVerde said:


> My local lumberyard stocks 13-ply 3/4" (18mm) Finnish BB in 4x8 sheets.


Birch Plywood
Baltic Birch and Russian Birch Plywood | Wolstenholme International


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## Mowry155 (Jul 14, 2015)

Joe

By the way, Baltic birch plywood is pretty.....but does one feel it's cost is justified in a working shop environment especially in drawers that are usually hidden in a case? In exposed structures (such as drill press tables, etc) is a different story.
Just thoughts to consider...no one correct answer.....just another aspect to this great hobby or profession!
Bob


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mowry155 said:


> Joe
> 
> By the way, Baltic birch plywood is pretty.....but does one feel it's cost is justified in a working shop environment especially in drawers that are usually hidden in a case? In exposed structures (such as drill press tables, etc) is a different story.
> Just thoughts to consider...no one correct answer.....just another aspect to this great hobby or profession!
> Bob


I had no choice as conventional plywood here is so warped I can't see a good outcome . Could have used solid pine I guess like I did for my shallow drawers


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum dhellyar.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum Jeff.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old55 said:


> Welcome to the forum Jeff.


X2 , welcome Jeff 
I missed that this was your first post


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## Rich t (Jan 7, 2011)

Hi guys,
I've been getting my wood in the poconos from local sawmills.
When building drawers, I find pine and poplar to soft to hold a screw.
I should also say I like to use the mechanical slides for the drawers.
I went to using oak for my drawers since it's plentyfull and as cheap as white pine up here.
The plastic stuff, although great to me is cost prohibitive.
Regards,
Rich T


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## dhellyar (Oct 6, 2010)

The joint I was referring to is the one posted earlier in this blog. The one you are calling a locking rabbit is more correctly named a tongue and dado joint. Now that DB you most recently posted is a nice strong box. In my business as a cabinet maker most cabinet shops no longer make their own Db's or doors and haven't for a long time. There are a lot of Co's in the business of doing only that, which has made it very cost effective to outsource that task. I personally like making drawer boxes and will normally do so unless the job has a lot of drawers to make. The most recent job I've done required almost 40 drawers . I made 10 of them and outsourced the rest.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

@danny 

Danny I could have gone with a rabbet joint but for some reason I really enjoy the challenge of setting up my table saw for the tongue and dado joint . It's a PITA for me to get the width right but I get it eventually .I intentionally make it a little wider than neccesary than trim it and re dado it a little at a time till its bang on


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> From the first link...
> "Baltic birch plywood is unique because of it’s all-birch veneer core that’s crossbanded and laminated with *exterior grade glue*"


5' x 5' is glued with UREA Formaldehyde Adhesive (like UNIBOND 800)
4' x 8' is glued with Phenol Formaldehyde Resin (not a consumer safe product anymore)
http://www.wolstenholme.com/pdf/Baltic Birch Plywood Specifications.pdf

My first initiation with the difference was that a laser will cut cleanly through 5x5 sheets and not consistently with 4x8 sheets, both the same thickness. Talking with a volume cabinet shop they exclusively used the 5x5 sheets due to tool wear with higher cutting rate. 

The "interior glue" information came from an engineer at Logitech. That said, the Phenol Formaldehyde Resin used to be sold to boat builders. 

It is a 80 mile round trip for me to get 5x5, so the 4x8 with round trip of 2 miles usually wins out.

Steve.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I stumbled *on this* in the latest issue of WOOD.


I don't know if there is a bug in their website, but, I could NOT get a Freight estimated cost!
EDIT: They fixed it...

*They are in Phoenix, Tempe, and Tuscon, AZ.*

Nice selection!

It's a shame they can't ship full sheets... but only in cut-up pieces.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Joe Lyddon said:


> I stumbled *on this* in the latest issue of WOOD.
> 
> 
> I don't know if there is a bug in their website, but, I could NOT get a Freight estimated cost!
> ...


Well Joe it certainly states the advantages of using Baltic Birch . I think I made a good choice. 
Took Stick a while to get me off of mdf , but I think I'm healed lol


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Joe Lyddon said:


> I stumbled *on this* in the latest issue of WOOD.
> 
> 
> I don't know if there is a bug in their website, but, I could NOT get a Freight estimated cost!
> ...



I have been trying to make it a sticky.

Any moderators reading this?????



RainMan1 said:


> .....Took Stick a while to get me off of mdf , but I think I'm healed lol


P.S. and yes, MDF is the satin of woodworking materials. STAY AWAY!!!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> I have been trying to make it a sticky.
> 
> Any moderators reading this?????
> 
> ...


And it's bad for your lungs . I wear a mask and take it off 5 minutes after a cut and later in the day I have a chronic cough. Seem to be way better now that I'm using ply.
Mdf bad , other wood good lol


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## dhellyar (Oct 6, 2010)

I actually have my own little method of putting together a drawer box. The way I've been doing it lately, it actually turns out to be more of a screwed but joint than a rabbit or tongue and dado, or really a hybrid of all three methods. I cut all the sides to length and height, then cut a rabbet on each end of the sides to the depth of the 1/2" front and back material, only leaving about 1/16 " material on the outside( just enough to cover the ends of the drawer front and back pieces) ,so when you open the drawer all you see is a continuous side. I glue and screw the front and backs to the sides, using No. 6 x 1 1/4" screws. I later fasten a real drawer front to the box so the screws won't be seen. The trick to making my system work is using the smaller screws when using the 1/2 material and predrilling using a 1/8" drill bit. If you don't predrill, the Baltic Birch will split and you will see slight bulges on the drawer sides. Plus you have to be a little careful when predrilling since I'm only using 1/2 inch stock with 1/16 inch lost from that to cover the front and ends, when assembled. I use this method because technically it's stronger than just screwing the sides to the front and back, from the sides, and it is quicker than using dowels or biscuits, once you get a little practiced. Of course I also use the traditional dado for drawer bottom. This method has worked out very well for me and it makes for a very strong drawer box.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*"I use this method because technically it's stronger than just screwing the sides to the front and back, from the sides..."*
I think there may be a difference of opinion on that, Danny. _All the stress is carried by the sides_ in the normal method of sandwiching the front and back _between_ the sides (whatever joint technique is chosen).
For sure the glue is doing all the work; the metal fasteners are merely reinforcing, and insurance. If I understand you correctly, you've transferred the stress of opening and closing to the front, and are counting on the screws...from the front into the length of the sides (parallel to the sides)...to absorb all the energy. Ie 'pullout resistance rather than shear resistance in the normal methods. In the normal way, well in fact in any way, there _is_ no sideways stress; the drawer is held securely by the drawer-slides and the cabinet carcase.
'Pullout' stress on the screws/nails is non-existent.
As has been discussed many times here, modern glues are amazingly effective. No metal fasteners are really needed in proper drawer design. I personally use 18ga airnails in from the sides for insurance, and to hold it tightly together while the glue cures. No screws, especially not into the ends of the veneers! 
I'm sure there are other opinions forthcoming...


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## dhellyar (Oct 6, 2010)

Unless of course your using a dovetail joint, where technically no glue is needed if the fit is tight. The drawer boxes I ordered for this last job were all dovetailed and the dovetails were held in place by a tight fit and a nail at the bottom. Thats the beauty of our modern day glues, virtually eliminating any need for a complex and time consuming dovetail, yet many people prefer this because of it's perceived strength and tradition of quailty. Some day I'm going to challenge their joints against mine by throwing a few drawer boxes around to see witch one will come apart sooner. Maybe on a day I need some tension relief ! I'd be willing to bet mine would hold up better !


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

'Crash testing' drawers?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> 'Crash testing' drawers?


depends..


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Maybe we could have a build off...and a trash the drawer demo! :grin:

I could probably build one out of poplar.
Say something like 4 1/2 inches by 12 or something like that.

I use 5/8 inch thick sides and simple rabbet joints on the front and back...and trim the back piece so the bottom can be slid into the frame after it is assembled. 

Where my drawer might differ from others is I make the front and back the exact finished width so it will fit the side mounted drawer slides. That has worked pretty well for me.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That would certainly simplify the calculations, Mike!


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