# Lock miter bit issues for new member



## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

Hello folks. I have just joined as a regular member - not Premium. I have not easily found a place to create a thread. I did find something and think I have asked the Admin about this. Not sure. And now I found this place to "reply".

I have been working with a 45 degree lock miter bit for a few months now. Learned a lot. Except.............for routing stile cuts on the end of a board. My bit is a cheaper Yonico bit. I keep it clean. It appears to be sharp enough. It cuts nicely with the grain, but it just destroys the wood when I make a vertical cut. I am a novice at this. I guess I am talking about a coping cut? I don't know for sure.

The wood gets torn out along the miter. The inner lip get chunked out on Poplar wood and on the softer wood (the cheap stuff from New Zealand that Lowe's sells) it'll even tear out sometimes huge strips of wood on the interior part of the miter cut. I do not understand what is happening. I just know I am making a lot of firewood and am quite frustrated.

Someone please help. I hope I described this well enough you can get a mental image of what I am doing and what the result is. I'll try to find a way to get a pic or even a short video of what I do on here.

Thanks.


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

William - a video works wonders - photos also help (a lot).
are you free-hand routing or on a table ?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi, that is a very tricky bit, requiring exact setup, and woe to thee if it isn't super sharp. Also, this is a bit that is used in a table, freehand is not the way to use it, and if you're using it freehand, 

Making multiple passes, taking off only about 1/8th per pass is one way to do it, but it can be difficult to make all end pieces identical in length. More on that in a minute.

Are you using a backer of some sort? That would be a piece of wood behind the workpiece so after the bit cuts the piece, it then goes into the backer. I like to use 3/4 MDF blocks, cut square, to push the piece through. If it is tearing out at the beginning of the cut, the bit may no longer be sharp. Sharpening this bit is fairly easy with a card sharpener, but you can also have it sharpened professionally. Youtube has videos on sharpening router bits. It doesn't take much to tune them up.

If these fixes don't help, and if you get tearout at the beginning of the cut, you can try adding a backer to the front as well, which should stop it.

Now, this is a simple way to set up a table and fence for easy and exact multiple pass cuts, and always end up with the exact same final piece again and again. Find a spot where your fence's left end sits. Drill a 1/4 inch hole. Turn the fence over and drill a matching hole. This will allow you to set the fence precisely, and then you can just move the right side down in an arc until it is in the exact right position. Mark that spot on the table top and then you have the final setting. You can work the other way too, star so you get your first, second, third and then final pass. Mark each position on the table, then the final position. Now you can perfectly repeat you cut over and over.

Getting that bit to line up is a challenge, but you can purchase some tiny jigs that make it easy to set the height. Those bits come in two sizes, depending on the thickness of your workpiece. Here's a picture of the lock miter jig. It's magnetic, so you clip it on, then align the mark to the centerline and that's it.
Hope this is helpful.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

DesertRatTom said:


> Hi, that is a very tricky bit, requiring exact setup, and woe to thee if it isn't super sharp. Also, this is a bit that is used in a table, freehand is not the way to use it, and if you're using it freehand,
> 
> Making multiple passes, taking off only about 1/8th per pass is one way to do it, but it can be difficult to make all end pieces identical in length. More on that in a minute.
> 
> ...


Tom, I purchased the set of two magnetic guides. They were much too expensive, in my opinion. I was desperate. I have found a way to set the bit with just a straight edge and it is very, very close to perfect. I have found the thickness of the wood stock is everything. And they vary. Oh, I am a novice. A novice novice.

I don't have much in the way of tools. I am a disabled veteran, and am just trying to keep busy so I don't lose my mind.

Once I figure out how to get photos and videos, I'll begin posting them so folks can see what I am up to and what I have to work with.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

William R said:


> Tom, I purchased the set of two magnetic guides. They were much too expensive, in my opinion. I was desperate. I have found a way to set the bit with just a straight edge and it is very, very close to perfect. I have found the thickness of the wood stock is everything. And they vary. Oh, I am a novice. A novice novice.
> 
> I don't have much in the way of tools. I am a disabled veteran, and am just trying to keep busy so I don't lose my mind.
> 
> Once I figure out how to get photos and videos, I'll begin posting them so folks can see what I am up to and what I have to work with.


Hi, Yeah, getting all the pieces to the same thickness is a bear. Usually requires a planer of some sort. Or using your router with a wide, flat bit and a special, shop built sled.

To post pictures is pretty easy if they are on your computer hard drive. If you look just below where you type in an entry, you see a line of letters and symbols. You can see the paper clip for attaching a test file, the two chain links for inserting a link to a site, or YouTube. Just to the right of that is a rectangle with a symbol for a sun and mountain. 










If you click the rectangle, a little popup opens, You can then open your File explorer and drag the picture you want to insert onto the popup and voila, your picture is inserted wherever your cursor was placed. It looks like this:










So you can use the insert picture to place them anywhere in your text. Generally, it's a good idea to write your entry first, then place your cursor, then insert the picture. Getting the picture from your phone to the computer can be done with a usb cable, but I just email the picture from the phone to my download folder. 

Tight budgets are pretty common around here, so we've come up with lots of ways to skin the tool cat.

I'm very curious about your alternative method. I have the little jigs and I agree, they are just too darn expensive.

I live in the high desert in California. We have a woodworking club up here that is actually a community college shop class. They have tools galore and lots of helpful members. You'll see here that a lot of us love to help people new to the addiction (hobby), and I think that's pretty true of everyone who loves woodworking. Look for a woodworking club in your area. Some public schools have adult classes, including shop classes, but not as many as in the past.

If you have a woodworking store anywhere nearby that you can visit, see if they have any classes. You'll meet some others, more than a few are vets, find out where the local resources are, and possibly find a woodworking club. I go 50 miles to a Rockler store where they used to have free demonstrations, and found a hardwood supplier I didn't know existed. 

I was watching Wood Smith magazine's TV show yesterday (on select pbs stations) and they were making band saw boxes. There's a guy up in the mountains around here who makes all kinds of little boxes out of scraps. They are shaped like stars, circles, ovals even butterflies. He rents a little floor space in the local mall every Christmas and sells them. You might look on YouTube for band saw boxes, I think you'd enjoy making them. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Making+band+saw+boxes

Do you have a band saw? I have a large one and a smaller one from WEN tools. I use the small one all the time, it's a bench model which if you're in a wheelchair, lets you set it to a height that works best for you. The big one is for wood preparation and is hard to pull out into the garage for little jobs. The WEN is identical to, but cheaper than the Rikon bench top version. There are some really cheap 9 inch saws with 53 inch blades, but they are underpowered and go dull pretty fast. You can't resharpen band saw blades.

Hope this is helpful. Ask lots of questions, you'll get lots of answers here.

Tom


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## GeoffB1950 (Nov 21, 2020)

Hello fellow members,
It is interesting and educational reading the posts in this forum.
My question is; were did you buy the small jig for the lock mitre bit.
I have never seen them before.

Geoff


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

GeoffB1950 said:


> Hello fellow members,
> It is interesting and educational reading the posts in this forum.
> My question is; were did you buy the small jig for the lock mitre bit.
> I have never seen them before.
> ...


Infinity Tools sells them. About $60 for both. Lock Miter Master Jigs


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## Wooden Dreams (Aug 7, 2021)

It helps to run a backer board at the tail end of the pass. This will help eliminate tear out at the end of cut, because your work peace end up being a through pass against another piece of wood.


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## Wooden Dreams (Aug 7, 2021)

To also help eliminate tear out with end grain, you might consider a "coping sled". Many don't care for MLCS, but this type may help. MLCS coping sled. As you can see, the backer piece on the sled, helps to eliminate or minimize tear out.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

William R said:


> Hello folks. I have just joined as a regular member - not Premium. I have not easily found a place to create a thread. I did find something and think I have asked the Admin about this. Not sure. And now I found this place to "reply".
> 
> I have been working with a 45 degree lock miter bit for a few months now. Learned a lot. Except.............for routing stile cuts on the end of a board. My bit is a cheaper Yonico bit. I keep it clean. It appears to be sharp enough. It cuts nicely with the grain, but it just destroys the wood when I make a vertical cut. I am a novice at this. I guess I am talking about a coping cut? I don't know for sure.
> 
> ...


William it's unclear if you are using a router table or free handing these attempts. As mentioned a table is really needed and the amount of cut per pass can be very important. This video on Infinity Tools shows and explains the use of the bits and setup. If you haven't seen this give it a look and then ask about what you may be having issues with. Also keep in mind that a bit that size needs to be running at a slower rpm and base that on the chart in this article.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

What are you trying to make using the miter bit?


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## Wooden Dreams (Aug 7, 2021)

Wooden Dreams said:


> To also help eliminate tear out with end grain, you might consider a "coping sled". Many don't care for MLCS, but this type may help. MLCS coping sled. As you can see, the backer piece on the sled, helps to eliminate or minimize tear out.





Wooden Dreams said:


> It helps to run a backer board at the tail end of the pass. This will help eliminate tear out at the end of cut, because your work peace end up being a through pass against another piece of wood.


You may want to check out this "coping sled" from Rockler. it has no miter slot guide. It sleds along the fence. It's easy to also build. Rockler coping sled check out one of the tabs of the left for Stump Nubs 60 second video on the use and why to use a coping sled.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

Hi folks. I sure appreciate the replies. I apologize for not having gotten back to this sooner. I have very debilitating heart problems. And I overdo it all the time. And I pay. Dearly.

I am looking at a Trend diamond sharpening card 300/600 grit. They are ridiculously expensive (for my budget). Are they worth it?

I use a cheapo SKIL router table. It works........well enough, I suppose. I am not building pianos. I do desire precision and perfection. One does with what one can afford, yes?

I think my lock miter bit may have dulled. I don't remember having as much a problem with the tear-out when I first started using this bit. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing and made a lot of firewood out of perfectly good wood. Yep.

I'll post some pics of my successes and failures, soon. That and I'll list the very few tools I have to work with. You'll all have a better idea of where I am at in all this and can then maybe guide me a little better.

I have looked at the coping jigs. They sure look like something that would help. I don't know.

Y'all have a grand day.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

mgmine said:


> What are you trying to make using the miter bit?


I make shadow boxes that hang flush to the wall out of 1x3s. I use a cleats to hang them. I'll post some pics here in a few days.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

sreilly said:


> William it's unclear if you are using a router table or free handing these attempts. As mentioned a table is really needed and the amount of cut per pass can be very important. This video on Infinity Tools shows and explains the use of the bits and setup. If you haven't seen this give it a look and then ask about what you may be having issues with. Also keep in mind that a bit that size needs to be running at a slower rpm and base that on the chart in this article.


I have seen that video a few times. THANKS for the link to the bit speed article. Very interesting.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

Wooden Dreams said:


> To also help eliminate tear out with end grain, you might consider a "coping sled". Many don't care for MLCS, but this type may help. MLCS coping sled. As you can see, the backer piece on the sled, helps to eliminate or minimize tear out.


That is ok, but I need something better than what I have devised to hold vertically oriented stock. I'll post some pics and video of what I do as soon as I can. Y'all will think I am nuts.


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

Wooden Dreams said:


> It helps to run a backer board at the tail end of the pass. This will help eliminate tear out at the end of cut, because your work peace end up being a through pass against another piece of wood.


I do that. Saw the tip somewhere and tried it. Sure makes a difference!


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## William R (Oct 18, 2021)

GeoffB1950 said:


> Hello fellow members,
> It is interesting and educational reading the posts in this forum.
> My question is; were did you buy the small jig for the lock mitre bit.
> I have never seen them before.
> ...


Personally, I don't use them. I bought them. They are perty. That is as far as I got with them.


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## Wooden Dreams (Aug 7, 2021)

There are several videos on setting up a locking miter bit. This is one of them locking miter bit set up. After you do it a couple times it's rather easy. I saved one of the 3/4" thick scrap wood that I used for trial and error set up. Now set up time has shortened.

The Trend Diamond Stone is nice. IMO it's way too pricy. I have several basic stones the work nicely and one like this AccuSharp Tri-Stone,. I do use a honing guide to maintain the angle honing guide. After sharpening with these I strop the blades on a leather strap with green buffing compound, to get a scary sharp edge. You can get the same results with sandpaper, going through the higher grits, then strop with leather or a brown paper bag.

You can resharpen your router bits with a small diamond file or a thin diamond card. Just make sure you do the same number of strokes on each carbine tip.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

William R said:


> I make shadow boxes that hang flush to the wall out of 1x3s. I use a cleats to hang them. I'll post some pics here in a few days.


Is the purpose to make the joint look different at the corners or for strength? If it's to make it look different then you could use a contrasting wood spline. If it's for strength I wouldn't think that a 1x3 would require much more than good glue and a pin nail.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The sharpening card is the way to go. Sharpen the open, flat side of each cutter, not the edge. Fasten the card so it hangs off the table just far enough to reach all the way across the carbide. Move the cutter, not the card. Same number of strokes with the same pressure on each cutter. Use a small amount of diamond lubricating fluid, not oil. Start with 6 laps each, probably won't need more than 10 laps per side if it's really dull. You'll be surprised how much difference it makes.

Holding the vertical piece: I prefer to use a feather board to lightly hold the piece against the bit, and a nice sized, square cut piece of equal thickness MDF behind it to push the piece through. I used to have a coping sled, but never liked using it. I have seen a shop made vertical jig with a base that ran against the fence, plus a backer board and on the front a hold down or two to press the workpiece against the vertical base. Kind of tricky because it has to clear the bit. The base becomes a movable fence.


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## Wooden Dreams (Aug 7, 2021)

William R said:


> I make shadow boxes that hang flush to the wall out of 1x3s. I use a cleats to hang them. I'll post some pics here in a few days.


Locking miter joints do give you strength and look great. Have you considered different options of mitered spline joints for the shadow boxes. I did purchase a Rockler Corner Key Doweling jig for miter joints with a accent, to make shadow boxes and Urns. miter joints with a dowel locking accent I haven't used it yet, it will lock in your miters.


















.


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## Oberon_1 (Nov 14, 2015)

Probably late to the discussion, but here’s my two cents:
That router bit is a horrible invention. Today I avoid it. Like the OP. I was lured into cutting miters with extra mechanical support. Unlike the OP, I went through 3 different manufacturers (Yonico. Freud, Whiteside) thinking something was wrong with the specific bit. Nothing was wrong, it is the design!

1) The “brilliant” idea was to use one bit only. That idea is flawed since you need to make one cut horizontal and one vertical. But even so, you can’t use the same setup for both cuts. You have to re-set the bit again for the vertical cut. Even a fraction of millimetre difference, ruins the cut.

2) They supply a useless block for setup. What they aren’t telling, is that you can use it only if your stock is PRECISELY the same thickness. Any deviation up or down and the setup is wrong.

3) There is a similar bit for 30° angles (not 45). But that solution consists of TWO bits, one for each part of the joint. It’s totally different and is practical.

4) Another problem is the need to remove a big chunk of wood in one pass. The router struggles! you can’t take subsequent passes because it will change the final setup. Someone suggested removing most wood on the table saw before routing and use the router only for the final pass. That helps, but doubles the effort.

5) I decided not to use this bit as there are other practical and easier ways to achieve the same goal.


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