# French Cleat



## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm building a face frame wall hung cabinet that will have flat panel overlay doors. Cabinet will be 36" Tall X 36" Wide. It will be made of 3/4" plywood. It will be used to store kitchen appliances so not too much contents weight. I was planning on making the French cleat from solid 3/4" thick X 3" wide hardwood. Anybody think I need to make the cleat from thicker wood?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

use ½- ¾ plywood...
less chance of splitting...
deals w/ stress better...
use truss headed screws and not flat head...
less chance of tear our and the screw splitting the cleat material....
counterbore the screws and not countersunk...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

3/4" hardwood should be just fine. Just make sure you securely mount both halves and you'll be golden...


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I was planning on a 1/2" or maybe a 3/4" cabinet back and attach the cabinet side of the cleat to the cabinet back. Leary of having the cleat supported by a 1/4" cabinet back and the cabinet top.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

it's the top and sides that are going to hold the wall w/ the back lending to the overall strength and intreity..
¼'' will be fine...
hedge your bets w/ the truss heads and glue...

there's nothing stopping you from putting a couple of ''keeper'' screws thought the ¼'' and cabinet cleat and into a wall stud..
¼'' will also cut down on the weight...


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

JIMMIEM said:


> I was planning on a 1/2" or maybe a 3/4" cabinet back and attach the cabinet side of the cleat to the cabinet back. Leary of having the cleat supported by a 1/4" cabinet back and the cabinet top.


That's why I added a piece of 1x3 across the top of mines. I used 1/4" oak panels for my backs, and I knew that was to thin to support them. So I ran a 1x3 across the top, to screw my "modified French Cleats" to them. I didn't use the "French cleats" because of the two tapers. If I had to pull out a cabinet (because my walls weren't exactly straight/square) it also rase the cabinet. So I made cleats with loose rabbets. I hung all my cabinets, by myself, and no jacks or anything. Smooth sailing!!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

You could notch out the side panels to accept the cabinet part of the French cleat and leave room on the back side to accept the wall side cleat if you want the back of the cabinet flush on the wall. Screw and glue the cabinet side of the cleat to the side panels. This will give you added hanging strength without relying on the back panel only. Make sure you catch studs with beefy screws (NOT sheetrock screws).


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

3/4" will be plenty.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I used 1x6 Pine for my French cleat and secured with 3" screws on every stud. The photo is right after we put it up but there are many things hanging from it now and it's working just fine. I could have used 1x4's but since I wanted the Ferrari red stripe I chose the wider board.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> it's the top and sides that are going to hold the wall w/ the back lending to the overall strength and intreity..
> ¼'' will be fine...
> hedge your bets w/ the truss heads and glue...
> 
> ...


The cabinet back mostly just keeps everything square. Most cabinet installers I've watched put a couple of screws in the back close to the top and into studs. I also agree with using ply for the cleats and my preference would be cleats with bevels instead of lap joints.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Bevels would allow a little flexibility with uneven walls. I would want to use the jointer to make sure at least one edge is perfectly straight before cutting the bevel. I'd not thought about not using countersinks, but it makes sense to have the maximum grip on the cleat. 

I have also seen strips glued and screwed to the inside of 1/4 inch cabinet backs to further secure the carcass to the wall. A cabinet full of glasses and china, or lots of canned goods, can be very heavy and might benefit from the extra reinforcement. Of course, there's no telling which cabinet my wife would choose for such items, so I'd just reinforce them all.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I'll probably use SPAX or GRK screws.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> .I also agree with using ply for the cleats and my preference would be cleats with bevels instead of lap joints.


See, I found and felt, just the opposite about the bevels over laps. My walls were not very flat. Had some waviness to them. Not over a short distance, but it was there. So, if I had to pull a cabinet out, to line it up (make flush) with the next one. With bevel cleats, as you pull the cabinet forward, you are also raising it up. It rides up the bevel. So you get the two/three cabinets flush, but then ones higher then the other, and you can't come down, because it's up against the bevel. With my loose fitting lap cleats, I was able to pull a cabinet out, without it going up, as well. Then I shimmed and screwed the cabinets together. I litterly hung all my cabinets, myself, with no jacks. Matter of fact, I did my uppers before I even put in the lowers in.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The cabinet back mostly just keeps everything square. Most cabinet installers I've watched put a couple of screws in the back close to the top and into studs. I also agree with using ply for the cleats and my preference would be cleats with bevels instead of lap joints.


I've been using these cleats for longer than I can remember...at least 40 years. All I have ever used for the cleats is plain old softwood 1 x 4's. Cut a 45º on the edges and that's about it. Doubtless plywood would work just as well. 

There is one thing that you can do to straighten out the cleats if the wall is crooked, within reason that is.

Pull a stringline along the length of the cleats in question, and use shims to bring them in line if the wall is crooked. And yes, I usually add two screws to the top of each cabinet.

We are re-doing the entire house here, and we are at the kitchen cabinet stage as we speak. They are IKEA cabinets, and IKEA has their own very slick system for installing both the floor mounted and the overhead cabinets. No extra screws will be required with this system.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Shims to compensate for wall irregularities would solve the cabinet alignment problem, but I also see the benefit of the loose lap joint for alignment purposes. But you would still need to shim the cabinet in some way to avoid having too much of a gap behind the cabinet back for screwing it to the wall.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

N'awlins77 said:


> See, I found and felt, just the opposite about the bevels over laps. My walls were not very flat. Had some waviness to them. Not over a short distance, but it was there. So, if I had to pull a cabinet out, to line it up (make flush) with the next one. With bevel cleats, as you pull the cabinet forward, you are also raising it up. It rides up the bevel. So you get the two/three cabinets flush, but then ones higher then the other, and you can't come down, because it's up against the bevel. With my loose fitting lap cleats, I was able to pull a cabinet out, without it going up, as well. Then I shimmed and screwed the cabinets together. I litterly hung all my cabinets, myself, with no jacks. Matter of fact, I did my uppers before I even put in the lowers in.


I hadn't thought about walls that uneven but if I had that problem I would have probably tried to make the wall cleat as long as possible, one piece preferably. The bevel would have hopefully evened out the cabinet to cabinet issue but most installers also join one unit to the next through the side walls too so it would just be a matter to level the front edges to each other and then screw them together. That however might not put weight on the cleat at each section so you are probably right to use a lap style joint in that circumstance. Or maybe just a plain old fashioned ledger board and sink a few screws into studs to keep the unit on the ledger board.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

doe nyone use ledgers when installing the uppers???


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Ledgers if the backsplash is tiled and will hide the screw holes, otherwise cabinet jacks.

As far as the French cleats, shimming the cleat(s) straight to a wavy wall takes care of the problem at the top and allows the cleat to properly carry the weight of the cabinet, but the bottom of the cabinet needs to be shimmed where needed before screwing into the studs.

We used hinges that screwed to the inside edge of the face frame, and I liked to screw adjacent cabinets together with the screw located under the hinge plate. I often wondered if anyone struggled with removing my cabinets down the road until they realized where the screws were. Of course, looking at the various DIY shows on TV, the approved method of removing cabinets nowadays appears to be beating them off the wall with a sledgehammer.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

What you said Tom. I was tiling the area over the backsplash so i screwed a 2 x 4 to the wall and sat the cabs on it until I could get the screws in it. It takes very little effort to hold them up that way and takes care of the leveling.


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