# Router bits



## speedo (Sep 14, 2009)

Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Gary I have had no experience with those bits, but I would say no. Now having said that what were you planning to do with the router used that way? There may be a way to do what you want using some other method.


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## Tom Hintz (Aug 31, 2009)

speedo said:


> Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


NO WAY!
Those bits are way too big (diameter) to control with hand held router. Most router bit companies specifically label that type of bit as for table mounted use only.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gary

Yes,, the SMALL ONES,, the ones that are about 2" to 2 1/2" OD, BUT ANYTHING bigger it's not safe 

Junior Cove Raised Panel Set-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood

1 pc 1/4" SH Cove Raised Panel & Base Edge Router Bit - eBay (item 140346287480 end time Sep-20-09 10:49:57 PDT)

Same OD as a slot cutter 



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speedo said:


> Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Yes, but only until it goes wrong. The best way is in a router table. Routers are dangerous tools. You don't want to poke a piece of wood into a 3" dia piece of metal spinning at 18,000 revs. A lot of us do, we take care. A hand held tool spinning at 25,000 revs with 1/2 of metal cutter, hitting a piece of wood that you cannot properly see, that is an accident waiting to happen.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

If you look at it real hard ,you are only using 3/4" of the bit (panel 2" cutter) and cutting 1/2" deep the norm,that's about the same as some of the big round over bits.. or if you use the slot cutter in place of the biscuit machines ..in the hand router..so to say it's not a big deal...

If you use the SKI jig it's very safe 



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Mike Wingate said:


> Yes, but only until it goes wrong. The best way is in a router table. Routers are dangerous tools. You don't want to poke a piece of wood into a 3" dia piece of metal spinning at 18,000 revs. A lot of us do, we take care. A hand held tool spinning at 25,000 revs with 1/2 of metal cutter, hitting a piece of wood that you cannot properly see, that is an accident waiting to happen.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi Gary,

Unless you are a super experienced router expert, I would recommend staying with what the manufacturer suggests. No need in taking unecessary chances and risking injury.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

speedo said:


> Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


Hi Gary

The general advice for the router bits shown is right, particularly if you aren't used to using them. Those bigger bits are inherently very dangerous in a hand held router. Bits are cheap enough; fingers and eyes aren't.

You may be better, if you don't have a router table, considering the vertical panel raisers that achieve a similar profile, but have a smaller diameter, although even those would be better in a router table.

MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 2

HTH

Peter


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## ssflyer (Oct 6, 2009)

Perhaps you should consider trying one of the many free plans available, and make your own router table? They are simple and work well, if you don't need all the fancy accoutrements...


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

istracpsboss said:


> Hi Gary
> You may be better, if you don't have a router table, considering the vertical panel raisers that achieve a similar profile, but have a smaller diameter, although even those would be better in a router table.


Some MDF (it's very flat), a few screw holes to mount a router base, a piece of lumber with a jigsaw cutout to clear the bit as a fence, clamps, and saw horses make a functional router table.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gary

The ski jig can do the job easy and safe 
The jig holds the router for you,just like a router table upside down so to speak..


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## Old_Chipper (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi Gray,
There are a couple of recent posts, about routers attacking the operator and these were table mounted. Take a look at them and think how much worst it could have been with a hand held machine. Then you do the math!
Harry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

You will note both accidents were done on the router table,,

That's why I push the ski jig so much, at no time does your fingers get close to the router bit  if you keep both hands on the router, some use the ski part of the jig to guide it around and that's why I press so hard to keep both hands on the router..

It's true some jobs are better done on the router table but one must take great care when using the table..and use all the safety equipment you can put one on and use on one..

It took me a very long time to take on the ski jig, ask Harry,,but once I did I was amaze how well it works and how safe it is..

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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

speedo said:


> Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


Gary,

Your question requires additional information to answer, which may be why you are getting a range of responses here.

If you are asking about a 3-1/2" raised panel cutter with a back cutter, I believe (or would like to believe) that everyone here would say it should only be run in a router table. If, on the other hand, you were talking about a raised panel bit designed for creating doll house cabinet doors (say, 1/4" cove cutter in a 3/4" bit), it'd be a no-brainer the other way.

There are also two classes of panel cutters: the standard horizontal cutter, where (if the bit was mounted in a table) the wood would be laid flat on the table to cut and the vertical cutter, where the wood is held vertically against the fence. Same cut, different bit and cutter orientation.

Within the realm of both hand-held and table-held routers there is the probability of the bit "catching hard" in the wood, such that the router (or wood) accelerates to (nearly) the velocity of the tip of the bit, due to the energy stored in the spinning router. Sufficiently shallow cuts, in the proper direction (with respect to bit rotation) with the proper safety guards are are relatively "safe" since the bit will cut rather than catch.

Compounding these issues with different people having different risk tolerances and you're bound to get differing answers. Nothing you do in life is 100% safe, as something can go wrong (i.e. you could slip on a clean dry floor and die), you only get degrees of safety and I can only give you my position but, before I do, I should tell you that I intend to keep all of my appendages attached so I err on the side of caution. You (and others) may choose to assume additional risk.

I limit what I will do by hand based upon two things:

1) What is the maximum tip speed? The velocity of the bit at its tip. A 3-1/2" bit, spinning at 12,000 RPM* has a tip speed velocity in excess of 100 mph. In contrast, a 1/2" bit, spinning at 24,000 RPM* is moving at about 30 MPH. In either case, with the rotational energy in the spinning motor and bit, if the bit should "catch hard", the router is going to nearly-instantly accellerate to most of the tip velocity. Which would you prefer to resist?

2) What is the probability of the bit catching? Bits catch when they get too large of a "bite" on the wood at a time, where the wood does not cut properly and the wood or router are made to move. Obviously, this is to be avoided. When a router is mounted in a table, a fence can be adjusted to limit the depth of cut to a safe level, making the cut relatively "safe". Likewise, operating a large bit handheld, if sufficient mechanisms were in place to ensure the bit could not catch, could be relatively safe. That said, it would be difficult for me to imagine sufficient mechanisms as to make hand-holding a 3-1/2" panel bit meet my personal safety requirement. For me, even if mounted in skiis, inadvertant pressure downwards on the router could cause rod flexure, causing the bit to cut far more than desired. This exceed my personal safety tolerance.

As a rule of thumb, *I* choose to limit my bit diameter for hand held use to 1" diameter, and even then only with restraints (skiis or guide) and I am very careful to limit my depth of cut even then. For example, if I am using a guide bushing and plunge-cutting the full 1" diameter, I restrict my cuts to < 1/4" at a time. The guide bushing (and template) prevent me from moving the router to an uncut area and getting "full cutter engagement" accidentally when I'm plunges 3/4" through a 1" board.

For the same reason, even though I have a 4-1/2" long x 1/2" diameter bit with a 2-1/2" cutter I will not cut the full height of the cutter without the router being restrained to prevent more than a very shallow cut. For me, that means in a router table.

Every persons risk tolerance is different. I prefer to err on the side of safety, even if it means it takes me longer to complete a cutting action. Others may respond that they've been doing {you choose the scenario} more for 30 years and have never had an accident. That argument carries no weight with me. To me that's like someone saying they've been drinking and driving for years and have never had an accident. Having gone without an accident for years doesn't do a thing to prevent one today. Your mileage may vary.

I hope this helps explain the divergence of positions here.

Jim

* Bit speeds from Router Bit Speed Chart - NewWoodworker.com LLC, courtesy of www.infinitytools.com


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

speedo said:


> Is this a stupid question can i use a raised panel bit in a hand held router


The answer to your question is: NO! Do NOT use a raised panel bit in a hand held router. ONLY use them in a table mounted router. Freud's recommendation is that any bit over 1-1/2" diameter should only be used in a table mounted router. To do otherwise is to risk serious injury or death. There are those who will say that these warnings are just for the newbies or that they are extraneous and don't apply to them but this is a serious matter not to be taken lightly.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

I just watch Norm A. of the NYWS on one his many shows and he was using a 2" OD slot cutter in a hand router,,the same size as the bit for a raised panel bit..

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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Bob J,

You'll have to help me understand your motivation on this one. What do you stand to gain if you convince someone that it is safe to use a raised panel bit in a hand held router against (I presume) the advice of both the router and router bit manufacturers' recommendations?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Charles

I'm not tying convince anyone that they can
use the standard raised panel ( 2 3/4" and up ) in the hand router but I don't think saying that the hand router can take on the 2" panel bits easy and safe..after all it's just a big cove bit/slot cutter,etc...

I have many 2" cutters and I have not seen one label saying "only use this bit in the router table" I'm not to sure about Freud, do they state that on the box/plastic bags..?
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25º Raised Panel Router Bits

#8685 ,1/2",1-5/8",$24.95
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Cove Raised Panel Router Bits

#8687,,1/2",2",$25.95	

Ogee Fillet Raised Panel Router Bits
#8694,1/2",2-1/4",$27.95

MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 1
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Undercutter Bit
#8679,5/8",3/8",1/2",$18.00

MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 2

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Biscuit,see snapshot of the pdf file below

Biscuit kits and Glue Spreader
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/graphics2/TM22biscuit.pdf



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Charles M said:


> Bob J,
> 
> You'll have to help me understand your motivation on this one. What do you stand to gain if you convince someone that it is safe to use a raised panel bit in a hand held router against (I presume) the advice of both the router and router bit manufacturers' recommendations?


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Charles
> 
> I'm not tying convince anyone that they can
> use the standard raised panel ( 2 3/4" and up ) in the hand router but I don't think saying that the hand router can take on the 2" panel bits easy and safe..after all it's just a big cove bit/slot cutter,etc...
> ...


It's in our literature and in the warnings included with every bit. This copied directly from the warnings:
"• Bits over 1 1/2 inch in diameter must only be used with the router mounted in a router table."


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