# Best alternative to Pat Warner sub base



## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

I did not know of pat’s passing til I read of it here, hours after I sent a request. I
have sent an apology. My question is there any similar base out there? Spent so
many hours today researching this, and came to two options. First is the Leigh 706R,
which really blocks the working visibility, the second is the Jasper M575. The latter is
very highly rated, thick clear plastic, and comes with a 1/2” brass centering tool, it
appears to fasten with only 2 screws! I’ll not be doing any lettering or dovetailig, just
edge and mortising with patterns. 
So, any advice or recomendations?


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

I have several of Pat's base plates, as well as his circle cutting jig, all high quality workmanship.

I've never cared for the "universal" plates, with multiple sets of holes in them. For a new plate, I would buy one of these Router Plates - Universal Template Guide Plates. They also sell the sets of cone point setscrews in different thread sizes to match your router. When fitting a new plate to a router, I install the setscrews and the centering tool, in the router, put the plate in place and tap with a mallet to mark the hole centers. Drill a hole that's a slight clearance with the body of the attaching screw, flat bottom counterbore the bottom of the plate and install with button head capscrews - the 3/8" thick plates provide plenty of material to hive the heads of the capscrews.


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

I did not see that one, it looks perfect. Two questions:
1. I assume a 1/2” bushing is installed, then the plate is lowered onto the 1/2” metal dowel,
and then do the tapping onto the pointed screws.
2. I think I read where the mounting holes are to be drilled oversize, which
is for fine centering?
They did not list an installation kit for the Ryobi, so I emailed them. Web pages
are not always current. I really do thank you for your link. This is an
incredible forum.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Here is the link for the centering kits they have available. You can use them for making your own plates for special use and they locate the holes accurately so you don't end up with screws going in at an angle and destroying threads in your base.

http://www.eagleamerica.com/product/v401-1230/router_access_-_router_plates


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

The link for the kit did not show up, but that’s ok as I see it Eagles’ website. If I use your method of drilling and use cap screws
will I have some wiggle room ?


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

An alternate way of transferring hole centers is to get a set of transfer punches. They are just hardened rods of many common diameters, like a drill index, but with just a sharp point on one end. You pick the diameter that just fits through the hole that you want to transfer the center of, slide it through that hole until it hits the piece that you are making, and give the punch a tap with a hammer. You will have a mark on your new piece that perfectly matches the center of the hole in the original piece. Harbor Freight sells these transfer punch sets for about $15. You can find them at tool supply stores at increased prices. Since I'm always making copies of hole patterns like this, I have a set in my woodworking shop and another in the metalworking shop.

Charley


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

DaleFiorillo said:


> The link for the kit did not show up, but that’s ok as I see it Eagles’ website. If I use your method of drilling and use cap screws
> will I have some wiggle room ?


If you use the centering guide to locate the router plate relative to the spindle, and the pointed setscrews to mark the center of the holes, you should be pretty well centered on the guide bushing. The through holes for the capscrews should be slightly larger than the OD of the threads - I believe Pat Warner recommended something on the order of .008 - .010" - and this should be enough to get the guide bushing centered to the collet. I have a couple different size end mills that I use to make the flat-bottomed counterbore for the capscrews, just make sure that the clearance to the OD of the screw head is slightly greater than the clearance in the through hole so that you don't lose the adjustment - do not use flat head screws as they tend to self-center on the sides of the countersink and you have will have no adjustment. 

One recommendation - put a reference mark on the router base and baseplate so that they can be reassembled in the same location if the baseplate is ever removed.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you switch to round head screws and use a thicker sub base, just enough so you can countersink the round heads, then you can make the holes a bit oversize. Then when you install a centering device you can tighten the screws while the plate is centered to the router.


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

What a great response, this turned out good. I ordered the Eagle 7” clear disc, but their install kit was no help as it 
uses countersunk screws, and the tapping screws were way too small. I could have bought my own screws, but
I’d still be out the centering hardware. I ordered a centering kit from Ttrackusa that has the right tapping screws, 
a 1/2” rod, and a disc, not a cone. 
A lot of good advice in this thread, I really appreciate it. Would the assembly be worth a photo/post?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Pictures and a story are always welcome Dale.


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

https://images.amain.com/images/large/tra/tra4859.jpg

Tom, those are what I have, the head is 1/2”D and 1/8” thick, the threads are big, 5/16-8. 
I have only a Forstner bit to drill with, it is sharp, or I could use a router bit in a drillmotor.
The Forstner has a starting point enabling a far more precise bore. No end mills or drillpress


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@DaleFiorillo

I'm assuming that the threads in your router are 5/16" - 18?

The head dimensions for a 5/16" button head capscrew are .547" max dia x .166" max height. I'm not sure what you have there, but it look almost as if there is a step right under the head that you would have to consider when you drill the clearance hole. I personally would try to get a button head, there are several vendors that sell small quantities - I buy a lot from Bolt Depot who sell by the piece, but try to combine my order because of the shipping. Another place to try is Fastenal or Ace hardware if you have either locally.

I've never used a Forstner bit to drill acrylic although I believe that there are members on the forum that have done that - here's a video about drilling acrylic with a Forstner bit 



 - not sure what he's using as a lubricant/coolant but I didn't have the volume turned on. I found another of his videos, and he's using water.

If the Forstner bit is OK for drilling the hole, I'd drill the counterbore first, using the center mark from the pointed setscrew, and you'll still have the center from the Forstner bit to locate the through hole. You will have to put a chamfer at the top of the hole to clear the radius under the head so that the screw doesn't bind up on the radius. So, 5/8" Forstner bit to get the counterbore, 11/32" through hole and a slight chamfer at the top of the through hole - keep as small as possible while still providing room to clear the radius under the head, drop the screw in there and check that you have a little wiggle room.

Hope this helps.


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

Yup, 5/16”x18. I measured the head and it’s .457” D, and .125” high. It looks like a buttonhead that
has been filed flat. If my calculations are right I should buy a 9/16” Forstner, not a 5/8”. The Freund has a wave
edge cutter which is supposed to do a good job. Following with an 11/32” normal for an expanded 
through hole. There is no step under the head. There must be a metric equivalent to that 5/16”-18 because 
these screws came with a set of imported outdoor furniture.
Tom, would a 5/8” be too big? It’s only another 16th, and I can get it locally.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

@DaleFiorillo

I think that the 5/8" will be fine, you shouldn't be too close to any other hole. Using the centering guide and cone point setscrews to mark the hole locations, you should be pretty close to centered so probably won't need that much clearance, but the extra won't hurt. You'll have about 1/32" diametral clearance on the bolt body/threads, a little extra on the head counterbore isn't going to hurt, the important thing is to have a little more clearance on the head so you don't hit there and run out of adjustment. I only have a couple of sizes of end mills, and just use that one that's closest while still providing the needed clearance - better to have a little more rather than not enough.

If you have a piece of scrap acrylic, it might be an idea to practice your drilling technique on that, make sure that there aren't going to be any surprises when your drilling the good part.


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## DaleFiorillo (Oct 30, 2017)

Well, I got the Eagle kit, and the base did install nicely, but something is a little off. When a bushing is 
pushed in it is not flush. It protudes about the thickness of a cd. Is there any reason I shouldn’t mill down
the plastic til the brass bushing sits flush?


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## timrsfo (Feb 10, 2018)

*is eagle router plate center hole stepped for flush fit?*










When I look at the image above, I see the the outside diameter of the bushing is stepped. Is the eagle baseplate center hole also stepped to accommodate this such that it will sit flush / or under the surface?

I'm looking at buying the 
Eagle #415-0307 7" round Router Plate - with 1 3/16" center hole
Eagle #401-1230 M4 Router Plate Centering Kit:
Uses a centering disc that fits into any router plate with a 1-3/16" *stepped hole* that accepts a standard "Porter Cable" style template guide bushing.
Eagle #400-1459 9 piece Brass template Guide Set :
Template guides can be used directly with any router having a baseplate with a 1-3/16"* diameter center hole. 
The kit contains two lock nuts and seven different template guides (5/16", 3/8", 7/16", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", and 51/64" OD).

Previous response indicates there is a "cd" sized offset. Does that mean the baseplate center hole is not stepped? If so, how would I step it?


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