# Delta table saw miter guage



## Pops1 (Nov 17, 2012)

Hi, I've got a miter guage situation that I hope to remedy. I have a Delta bench top table saw. It's miter guage is T type. It has a lot of play between it and the slot. Does anyone know how to eliminate that play.Can the t-grooves be cut out to make it a straight sided slot? It would be 3/4" if no extra is cut out. It seems like it's an aluminum top. Any other way? Thanks, Mike


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If your saw has extendable tables it sounds like one I bought from Sears and is also exactly like one that Canadian Tire sells up here. I have thought about grinding off the tabs that hold mine down too. I don't use the miter gauge on mine much so it hasn't been a pressing issue.
You could make a runner out of hardwood and machine it into a tee that does fit the groove or you could use UHMW plastic or aluminum bar too. Both will machine with a carbide straight bit. Even if you do grind the tabs down a standard mitre gauge bar may still be sloppy.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Another way- Drill and tap the miter bar of the t-square vertically across it, one near the front, one near the rear. In a cast table you put in steel allen set screws. In an aluminum table you use nylon set screws. Adjust both snug, but so it still moves freely.

Less labor and you don't have to be as "exact" as if you would need to be to redo your miter slots. Also no danger of routing out the extrusion too much by mistake... 

Although, I did hear about that "routing out" fix... routing off the tabs and flattening the hump out of the bottom so it no longer rocked on that. Those owners were happy and it opened up things for more standard accessories.

Sort of shaped like the miter bar pictured below, right? Except the width is around 0.64" (Slightly larger than 5/8"). The width of the bottom part of the T slot is around 0.86" (Slightly larger than 13/16"). The depth of the slot is 1/4". I say "around", because different manufacturers had different measurements on the the lower part of the "T". And as you see in the pictures below- they considered that a 5/8 miter bar also. 

Along the same lines. The miter/t-slots on my planned saw is 3/4" x 3/8" with a 5/16" x 1-1/4" T on the bottom. Others I've seen were 3/4" x 3/8" with 3/16" x 1" on the T.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't know how this would work however the Incra 1000 gauge has a removable part on the end that is used if your saw has a tee slot. The part can be bought separately so maybe you could adapt it to your saw. If you go to their web site you can see the gauge and the part I am referring to.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

mgmine said:


> I don't know how this would work however the Incra 1000 gauge has a removable part on the end that is used if your saw has a tee slot. The part can be bought separately so maybe you could adapt it to your saw. If you go to their web site you can see the gauge and the part I am referring to.


Art, they won't work on this type of saw with out modifying the miter slots.. they(the miter slots) are not standard! A 3/4 by 3/8 miter bar will not slide thru because of tabs cast into the slots that keep the OEM miter gage from tipping.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

On a regular steel bar you can take a punch and hammer and "dimple" the side of the bar. This will raise a the steel slightly and tighten the fit. Don't know if that will work on yours but worth a try.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike (Pops 1) ; what Other Mike said...but really, toss it and get a third party one.
I'm in the exactly the same boat as you with _my_ Delta mitre gauge. It's total crap.
They do make a premium version; no idea whether it's worth the money...
Delta Heavy Duty Precision Miter Gauge 36-946 at The Home Depot
Osborne has a nice one... (on sale!)
Osborne EB-3 Miter Guide. - Osborne EB3 Miter Guide

The way _i_ look at it, I'm only doing this once. It might as well be the best one I can justify spending the money on.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Pops1 said:


> Hi, I've got a miter guage situation that I hope to remedy. I have a Delta bench top table saw. It's miter guage is T type. It has a lot of play between it and the slot. Does anyone know how to eliminate that play.Can the t-grooves be cut out to make it a straight sided slot? It would be 3/4" if no extra is cut out. It seems like it's an aluminum top. Any other way? Thanks, Mike


Garyk is right. I have worked around machinery all my life and a properly applied center punch will tighten it up. Then stone it to fit exactly, this is commonly called a 'Dutch fit or Dutch knurl' in machine shops.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Pops1 Mike; a big 'Thank you'! If you hadn't posted your question I wouldn't have checked back with Osborne for the link, and I wouldn't have known about the huge sale discount.
Carpe diem as they say; I ordered one. 
I've not really been bothered by the crap Delta one as I do all my crosscutting on my scms.
However I would like to be able to crosscut panels larger than 12"...
(Yes, I do use my circ. saw for that, currently)


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

a quick fix would be to get some slick tape, the kind that gives jigs a slick teflon slide, and stick some on both sides of the mitert bar. I had to do this to my new incra Ibox miter slider because I could not get the cam screws in the bar to tighten enough for either of my bosch router table or my bosch table saw. The slick tape makes it work the way it is supposed to slide by adding that very thin extra width.


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## almost there (Apr 12, 2011)

I really like my osborn miter slider. I dont usse the one that came with my saw


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Pops1 said:


> Hi, I've got a miter guage situation that I hope to remedy. I have a Delta bench top table saw. It's miter guage is T type. It has a lot of play between it and the slot. Does anyone know how to eliminate that play.Can the t-grooves be cut out to make it a straight sided slot? It would be 3/4" if no extra is cut out. It seems like it's an aluminum top. Any other way? Thanks, Mike


Specifically which saw do you have. You spoke of an aluminum top. I think from the responses that there is some confusion as to what you have there. Pictures and/or a model number would be helpful. If the saw has an aluminum top with tabs in the miter slots, most of the gauges suggested won't work. If it's cast iron with a 3/4 x 3/8 miter slot, the suggestion to dimple the bar should help, and the suggested after market miter gauges would be a great addition. But without additional information I really can't tell which case we are dealing with!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Pops1 said:


> Hi, I've got a miter guage situation that I hope to remedy. I have a Delta bench top table saw. It's miter guage is T type. It has a lot of play between it and the slot. Does anyone know how to eliminate that play.Can the t-grooves be cut out to make it a straight sided slot? It would be 3/4" if no extra is cut out. It seems like it's an aluminum top. Any other way? Thanks, Mike


Mike, my old table saw had aluminum top and narrow slots. I was thinking of routing out the slot to 3/4", but realized I may lose integrity of the top if I did. 

I would seek to eliminate the slop before I routed the slot. However if you did rout the slot, you may be able to use normal 3/4" miter gauges.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Remember too, most of the tools now days are not made in the US of A and the quality is suspect. Powermatic used to be the Cadillac of large power-tools. Now they are just another brand. Recently had a (made in China) power washer fail. Took it apart and discovered the gears were made of a powdered metal which had returned to the powdered state. Powdered metal is great for lathe tools, not so much for heavy use gears. US made tools tend to have machined parts. Buy American or European made products when possible and you will be happier with the quality.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Giving a whole 'nuther meaning to 'Dust to dust; ashes to ashes', Gary.


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## Pops1 (Nov 17, 2012)

*here's the photos*



Dmeadows said:


> Specifically which saw do you have. You spoke of an aluminum top. I think from the responses that there is some confusion as to what you have there. Pictures and/or a model number would be helpful. If the saw has an aluminum top with tabs in the miter slots, most of the gauges suggested won't work. If it's cast iron with a 3/4 x 3/8 miter slot, the suggestion to dimple the bar should help, and the suggested after market miter gauges would be a great addition. But without additional information I really can't tell which case we are dealing with!


I'll answer as best I can. So far, I like the idea using tape, I may use that if I can find some and if I can get get it on the miter guage bar. But I'm still open for ideas.The top is aluminum, not flat, but has ridges. And it's model: 36-546 type2. The wide part of the t-bar is 3/4, and it's 1/4 high. Here are some pictures:


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Hi, Mike.

The pictures confirmed what I was thinking. I not sure I would try routing the slots. A standard miter gauge bar is 3/4 x 3/8 inches, so you would have to deepen the slots as well as widen them. Don't think there is enough metal there. But you should be able to tell better than I can. Remember, you don't want to lose the structural integrity of the top

The only other suggestion I would have would be build a crosscut sled with 2 runners to fit you miter slots. There are a number of plans available if you google search. Most all will need to be modified to fit your saw.

Duane


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> Hi, Mike.
> 
> The pictures confirmed what I was thinking. I not sure I would try routing the slots. A standard miter gauge bar is 3/4 x 3/8 inches, so you would have to deepen the slots as well as widen them. Don't think there is enough metal there. But you should be able to tell better than I can. Remember, you don't want to lose the structural integrity of the top
> 
> ...


Quoted Dmeadows, but addressed to the OP-

Remember what I was saying about no standards from manufacturers on Tablesaw Miter/*T-Slots*... I think that IS the measurements I posted and asked about... the top being a little over 5/8" and bottom being a little over 13/16 with the depth being 1/4". This is the one that I noted in my post, that they (somehow) consider that a 5/8" miter bar.

Miter bar replacement possibilities? Aluminum 3/4" x 1/4" and route the slots in the top. In between routing those top slots, test often in your miter slots to check for a sufficiently snug fit. The 3/4" section of the profile will not be snug, but doesn't need to be. That part of the "T" is there to keep the miter bar from lifting out of the slot. The top part of the profile is the important part of that. Of course then you would need to machine to fit your miter fence. Usually 2 holes with one threaded. Sometimes a relief for a clip.

--OR-- Lay the existing miter bar down on something solid (steel plate, anvil part of a vise or an anvil) with the bottom flat down. Peen with a center punch (pointing down) near the top edge. That will expand / move metal to the side across the corner into the edge. Important that when you do that, that if using a standarrd center punch and hammer, that you have the mark/peen about 1/16" or slightly less from the edge, to move metal to the side of that peen. (Blacksmithing tools would move more metal). Dress with a file if too tight. If more is needed to tighten you could peen more or peen the opposite edge across from that spott, depending on how much is needed to take it up. Tighten near the front and back. My experiences with this method- If there is any divets in your slot, you may have to lightly polish them or your miter bar will catch on them (tightened only in a small area, not across the whole length).

--OR-- route it out the table to 3/4", which would leave a small section at the bottom that still doesn't touch (Gap would be about 1/32" each side for a total of 1/16" or so). You would still need a 3/4" x 1/4" for a miter bar, which is still a non-standard size. ...Which again would need to be modified to adapt to your miter bar.

*** Note on routing aluminum- I do it at about 1300 RPM. Anything higher and the aluminum melts to the bit. Only take a 1/16" max at a time and you end up with a nice clean cut. I've done 1/8" cuts, but that is pushing it and is a bit rough. Carbide bits. On something like your table, I use jigs for support. If not, the bits grab and will dig out too much in a instant. Aluminum miter bars and such I route on my router table. I use some bits (sacrificial) that I don't use on wood again. They dull fast and don't seem the same afterwards on wood.

As Duane said, You cannot go deeper to 3/8". That would ruin that table.

To Duane- To make himself a sled, he would still need to do one of the above and come up with miter bars of one of two of those 2 non-standard sizes for his sled. OP's choice. My preference for accuracy always leans to using sleds rather than a miter bar. But you know that's just me. If I was going through making miter bars for a saw like that of mine, Yes, I would probably make a few extras, some for sleds. That may be easier for "some" than adapting a miter bar to a miter fence.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

There's another option if you're talking jigs...
UHMW Polyethylene - Lee Valley Tools


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> There's another option if you're talking jigs...
> UHMW Polyethylene - Lee Valley Tools


Love that stuff!!!

Coincidence, to that, I have a store here that I buy UHMWPE cutting boards for about half less than I can get bulk sheets at a woodworking store. I just bought 2 more tonight to make new bushings for my TS fence. (and left overs for other jig projects)

If I use UHMWPE for miter bars though, I always dado the miter bars up into the bottom of the sled... to ensure they get mounted and stay straight. It's a slippery material, strong, but bends and flexes. So if I use, I end up with using a 7/16"+ thick sled bottom instead of 1/4" to 3/8". So using a 1/2 thick bar, dadoed in 1/8" to create an exposed 3/8 thick bar.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I was thinking hardwood runners for a sled. The longer, the better. I would cut to fit the slots as they are. By using 2, any play is more likely to cancel out.

Hate to say it, but the other option may be a good used contractors saw.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Garyk said:


> Remember too, most of the tools now days are not made in the US of A and the quality is suspect. Powermatic used to be the Cadillac of large power-tools. Now they are just another brand. Recently had a (made in China) power washer fail. Took it apart and discovered the gears were made of a powdered metal which had returned to the powdered state. Powdered metal is great for lathe tools, not so much for heavy use gears. US made tools tend to have machined parts. Buy American or European made products when possible and you will be happier with the quality.


Sort of. Just a few off topic thoughts to go along with your thoughts.. 

A lot of American and European manufacturers have gone to powdered metal alloy processes also. Otis could expand on this at length. It's less expensive to pre-form a part to shape somewhat "close" then machine down to finished size than to machine from a raw billet. Machining costs are high. Many of those alloys are processed stronger than raw billet stock.

On the other side of that, I'm embarrassed to admit that just because it is American or European made, doesn't necessarily automatically guarantee that it is quality. There are still grades and lines. I've made this mistake and been bit. 

There are also some quality lines and grades in American, Europe... and China. Example- "Felder" is now made in China. Owned by Felder (German), German managed, German engineered.. using their own parts... but assembled in China.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just one more way

==


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Just one more way
> 
> ==


Bob- 

They say a picture is worth a thousand words... I always enjoy your attached photos. You do such a good job on those pictures!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I was going to ask if there was any alternative to the mechanical fasteners but Mr. Google was a fount of information...
How to bond the poly's,


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## williamm (Oct 10, 2011)

My Craftsman ts has an aluminium top with tabs at the tops of the slots.
I measured the slots to be sure of the new miter fence I wanted to purchase and as it turned out, I am glad I did. The slot was only 5/8 inch wide +.003.

I then found a miter fence that would fit. It is made by Ridgid. It had a three piece bar that can fit a 5/8 slot or a 3/4. I did have to shim out the bar with some note paper because of the +.003 oversize but it works great. Plus it had a digital readout.

I did have to modify the slot since the tabs had to go so I cut them off with a hobby razor saw.

I am very happy with my modification.
:happy:


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

williamm said:


> My Craftsman ts has an aluminium top with tabs at the tops of the slots.
> I measured the slots to be sure of the new miter fence I wanted to purchase and as it turned out, I am glad I did. The slot was only 5/8 inch wide +.003.
> 
> I then found a miter fence that would fit. It is made by Ridgid. It had a three piece bar that can fit a 5/8 slot or a 3/4. I did have to shim out the bar with some note paper because of the +.003 oversize but it works great. Plus it had a digital readout.
> ...


*** Curious- Does Rigid sell an aftermarket digital miter fence with a 5/8" Miter bar? Where is this available? Or was it available on one of their saws?


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## williamm (Oct 10, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> *** Curious- Does Rigid sell an aftermarket digital miter fence with a 5/8" Miter bar? Where is this available? Or was it available on one of their saws?


Here is the link to the Home Depot page.
Ridgid Miter Gauge

I have also attached the manual.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

This looks like the same product... but with 3/4 adjustable miter bar. Will NOT fit the 5/8 slot, though.

Craftsman 29939 Multifunction Digital Miter Gauge - Amazon.com

Only 1 left!

Sears has them at a somewhat higher price.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> This looks like the same product... but with 3/4 adjustable miter bar. Will NOT fit the 5/8 slot, though.
> 
> Craftsman 29939 Multifunction Digital Miter Gauge - Amazon.com
> 
> ...


I have one. Works great. Yes, 3/4" x 3/8" bar, with slack tuning... T-Slot disks in two places to dial in if you can. Also works good at determining blade angle.

Like that the fence was a standard aluminum extrusion, which I replaced with a 24" long.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Another solution is to drill a small hole completely through the bar at the beginning and end of the bar. Tap this hole and insert a set screw. Then adjust the set screw(from the inside of the bar) until the bar is snug in the miter slot


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Let me add my .02 worth.

First of all, you need to determine if that saw is 'worth' the effort. What I mean by that, is the miter slot even straight, without waves, gouges, digs or heavily worn areas. Then once that is determined and a decision made to either use as-is, repair or replace that saw, then you can decide how to go about some modifications. Assuming that the slot is 'good', I would find a local machine shop that can take a good piece of oversize cold rolled steel, put it on a surface grinder table and have the dimensions machined to size. Adding adjusting screws would also help in the final fit. Now, my old JET JTS-10, still in great shape and Santa has promised an INCRA to replace the now broken clunk that came with with it 18 or so years and endless miles of wood cuts later

Getting on to the Far East made products - it seems many North America and Europe manufacturer's have given up making quality products by farming out their name to be stamped on inferior goods all for the bottom line on the accounts sheet for the owners, usually stock holders. I'm not saying that these goods are all bad - they aren't. What I'm trying to say is that caveat emptor has become increasingly more important when making purchases. It's your money and in some cases, your personal safety that are being put up for grabs.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

mgmine said:


> Another solution is to drill a small hole completely through the bar at the beginning and end of the bar. Tap this hole and insert a set screw. Then adjust the set screw(from the inside of the bar) until the bar is snug in the miter slot


Something like this? 










I'm looking for a solution for mine.

GCG


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

mgmine said:


> Another solution is to drill a small hole completely through the bar at the beginning and end of the bar. Tap this hole and insert a set screw. Then adjust the set screw(from the inside of the bar) until the bar is snug in the miter slot


Where exactly in this profile of the miter bar would you suggest drilling a hole for a set screw? And how would you keep the set screw from grooving the _*aluminum*_ table top. Guess you could use a nylon set screw, but there still isn't much space for it!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

mgmine said:


> Another solution is to drill a small hole completely through the bar at the beginning and end of the bar. Tap this hole and insert a set screw. Then adjust the set screw(from the inside of the bar) until the bar is snug in the miter slot


Sorry. Shift work and exhausted.

Art-
Like I said in post #18, right?

Duane- 
In post #18 I suggested using nylon set screws. They would not wear on the aluminum table. *But* after I posted that, with that T-slot profile (as you hinted) I thought (as you) that there is not much wiggle room to do that. His slot is only 1/4" deep total (including the two widths of the "T"). It would have to be a very tiny diameter set screw. That is something I do to 3/8 inch deep miter bars with straight sides... But I had already put it out there, so I left it posted.

One thing I didn't mention is cutting out a slot across the bottom of the miter bar, drill and tap a hole vertically through to mount a piece of nylon to pull down on the bar (into the t-slot). If that piece were to be made with a campher, it would center the bar and tighten it in the miter slot itself. Another would be to cut a slot across the top to mount a piece of nylon which would rub on one side of the miter slot. I have a crosscut fence that has adjustments this way to tune it in. The nylon that rubs on the side, has a slot so the slack adjustment is "adjustable." That might work for him, maybe? (If interested, I could post picture of mine to show how that worked.)

I thought of a way to do that with spring steel banding / strap material (free scraps from anywhere) but then thought that might eventually wear on the aluminum table also.

Problem I see with that? The miter bar that I have with that setup is also 3/8" deep. His being 1/4", cutting across that would have to be very shallow or it may weaken the bar too much to make it worth it. 

Just trying to throw other new ideas out there... These rotating shifts with no day off in over a month is getting to my head. _"Doctor, Need sawdust. Stat!"_


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

GulfcoastGuy said:


> Something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes exactly almost any small size will do all your are doing is adding friction.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Here is another option that is used on my Incra miter gauge to keep it tight in the slot. It would take a lot of time to accurately drill the holes and tap the bar but it's another idea. You would have to buy the parts from Incra.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Or another way. This is a craftsman digital miter bar. (attached picture) Look at the black nylon bushing at the top of the bar. (The brass insert at the bottom is the T-Slot bushing.) 

Has one adjuster on each end and one in the middle. Located at top of bar. Nylon bushing has a slot in it to slide it sideways. Loosen allen head screw to adjust, slide over bushing snug while in the slot.

Could get as spare part from Sears.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

mgmine said:


> Here is another option that is used on my Incra miter gauge to keep it tight in the slot. It would take a lot of time to accurately drill the holes and tap the bar but it's another idea. You would have to buy the parts from Incra.


Art, I think you are still missing the point. His miter bar is not much thicker than those washers from Incra. If he had a 3/8" thick miter bar, he would have *lots* of options!


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