# Need help figuring what tool I need....



## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

I am bored of making things out of pine. The other alternative is maple, but getting planks that are already straight and planed would get expensive. I found a place that sells all different types of hardwood planks, so I bought a few 6 foot 1X6 cherry wood planks. The thing is that they are bowed a bit and so I would need to work on them a bit before introducing them to my router. But as I was shopping around for a portable planer, I came under the impression that this tool would not straighten the board out. Apparently I would need to run the plank on a jointer first...
Eventually my shop will include a planer AND a jointer, but for now I would like to get working on these planks! I was thinking maybe I could work with my table saw and a jointer, for now and get the planer in a few months.....or should I go for the planer first....?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

It's always best to buy the best lumber you can if you don't have a jointer or a planer that's to say until you get them but now that you have got some lumber that's bowed you can rip it down and then glue it back up .

e.g. you would be hard press to find a 1 x 12 that's flat and you don't want to plane it down and put one 1/3 of it in the saw dust pile...just to remove the bow..
I have about 10ea. 1 x 12 x 10ft. Oak that I'm always turning over and over and restacking wood on top to help keep it flat but it still bows..


This is also true when you do have the jointer and the planer, the lumber you buy maybe true when you get it but in time it will bow, it was a tree at one time and always wants to go back to being a tree.. 

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tpyke said:


> I am bored of making things out of pine. The other alternative is maple, but getting planks that are already straight and planed would get expensive. I found a place that sells all different types of hardwood planks, so I bought a few 6 foot 1X6 cherry wood planks. The thing is that they are bowed a bit and so I would need to work on them a bit before introducing them to my router. But as I was shopping around for a portable planer, I came under the impression that this tool would not straighten the board out. Apparently I would need to run the plank on a jointer first...
> Eventually my shop will include a planer AND a jointer, but for now I would like to get working on these planks! I was thinking maybe I could work with my table saw and a jointer, for now and get the planer in a few months.....or should I go for the planer first....?


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

Well, the boards aren't VERY warped...but when you place them on a flat surface they will rock. I bought these 1" planks because I needed a bunch of 3/4" and 1/4" stock, so I don't really mind losing 1/3 if I can start on some of my projects.
Let's say I'm able to get a piece of this board down to 3/8" using my table saw....would I need a planer or a jointer to make this 3/8" piece totally flat and true?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI tpyke

Because you don't have a jointer or planer yet you want to take your wood down to one of the many lumber yards and have them mill it for you , it should not be to high in price and they have the equipment to do it quick...unless you have a mate that can do it for you. 

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tpyke said:


> Well, the boards aren't VERY warped...but when you place them on a flat surface they will rock. I bought these 1" planks because I needed a bunch of 3/4" and 1/4" stock, so I don't really mind losing 1/3 if I can start on some of my projects.
> Let's say I'm able to get a piece of this board down to 3/8" using my table saw....would I need a planer or a jointer to make this 3/8" piece totally flat and true?


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Tpkye, planer or jointer first... it's an often asked question with many different answers depending on who you are talking to. I have been woodworking for 20 plus years and have never had a jointer ( well a decent one other than a bench tops that I returned). If you guy your lumber from a good source and that is reasonably flat you can make most projects sucessfully. I have built cabinetry, shelves, boxes, frames all without the aid of a jointer or planer. 
If you really want to make thin wood out of thicker wood it's a band saw and planer operation. In my opinion it's a pretty dicey operation on the table saw. I use my table saw a lot but resawing is not something I like to do on it. A band saw will do it nicely but you need a planer to remove milling marks for the most part. I plan on getting a jointer last myself. 

Corey


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

A jointer is mainly for "edge" work, while the planer works on the "face" side.

For thin thicknesses such as 3/8", Corey nailed that one!!  Use a bandsaw. My grand dad was a cabinet maker, never had a jointer nor a planer, he used block planes.


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

challagan said:


> it's a pretty dicey operation on the table saw


Tell me about it! Before beggining this thread I learnt alot of what a table saw couldn't do!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tpkye

You may want to check out the links below

http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/axlmyks-stuff/7314-router-sled-sunp0016s.jpg

http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5391-router-sled.htm

http://www.routerforums.com/portable-routing/5222-planing-router-simple-inlays.html


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The cheapest part of most of my projects is the timber, which I'm lucky to have donated by friends and friends of friends, this being so it is often curved. I went for over 25 years with just a jointer before getting a planer and if you have to choose one or the other, in my usual humble opinion, the jointer has to be the one. As you so rightly pointed out, put a banana into a planer and out comes a thinner banana. Getting a jointer gives the incentive to save up for a planer because having both is the ultimate.


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

Here's another two cents for your pile.

If I were making that choice again I'd go with the planner.

You can attack twist, cupping etc with a hand held belt sander. Or you can use a hand plane. It's a slow process and you need a bloody sharp blade but that's how the old timers milled wood. 

I have both a jointer (4") and a lunch box planner. 4" doesn't give you much of a board but it's what I have. 

I found this method (not mine idea) pretty effective although time consuming. I've made a planner sled. I can post some pics (if anyone wants to see them?) later in the weekend but for now my narrative will have to do. The sled is as close to dead flat as I could make it. I take my cupped board and glue it to the sled with hot melt glue- cupped side up, grain oriented for the best planning. Then I glue window/door shims, again with hot glue, to support all the surfaces not in contact with the sled. The important item being you don't want the board to flex while in the planner nor to have something come loose.

I make several light passes until it's flat. Then I use a hair dryer to remove all the shims and the glue from the shims, the board itself and the finally the sled. Now I can pass the flat side through the planner normally and walla a flat board. 

Don't forget to 'sticker' freshly milled stock or it will twist again in no time.


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## slatron (Jan 6, 2008)

Thx for this one bobj3:
"it was a tree at one time and always wants to go back to being a tree."


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

*Banana - Planer*

Harry, I ran a banana thru my planer and all I got was a mess in my planer.


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

I have a friend with a 12 or 13 inch planer.... can't remember right now... not important.... and he has a long sled that he uses for edge jointing in his planer. He also makes use of a hand plane... a jointing plane. For him it came down to a choice between a jointer and a planer. He simply could not have both. He could not get a jointer large enough to do wider faces on rough cut stock so he got the planer. He uses sleds and shims the stock to get it straight. I've watched him take a twisted, bowed piece of wood and get a nice, straight board out of it. Takes a little work, but he says it would take some thinking and some work no matter what. 

"The tree took a hundred years to give me this piece of wood. I can afford to spend a little time to make it a table."

Woodworkers are a pretty ingenious lot. We spend almost as much time making what we NEED (jigs, fixtures) as we do making what we WANT (boxes, tables, cabinets). If we don't have a specific tool.... we seem to figure out another way to accomplish a task.  

You guys are smart. I've learned a lot here. heheheh


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"Harry, I ran a banana through my planer and all I got was a mess in my planer."

Dave, it's got something to do with the way you hold you're mouth as you're feeding it in!
__________________


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

Update!


Problem solved....I got both!:sold: 

I got some low end stuff; the 6" Delta variable speed table top jointer, and the Delta 13" portable planer. Sure, I have a hard time jointing 8 foot and over stock and the planer has a major snipe issue, but at least I can start getting some of my projects going! I got both machines for under $600 so it isn't TOO bad...the planer I originally wanted to get was over $500.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well done on getting both. By feeding the board into and out of the planer with it's rear slightly raised usually avoids snipe as does correct setting of the cutters, but in my Delta 12.5" planer, the cutters locate on pins and so no adjustment is required, a VERY good point to look for when buying a planer.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI tpyke

Very good 

Just a note when was the last time you needed to use a jointer a 8ft. long board not the norm 

Here's a small tip for the portable planer,,most 12 1/2" planers have a error with the infeed and the outfeed tables (snipe issue) (setting them up) here's a way to take that error out, cut some 3/4" MDF stock, 2 ea.or 3 ea. glue them up and then cut it to 12 1/2" wide x 4ft.or longer if you have the room in the shop , clamp it to the base plate of the planer (under the blades) this will take most of the snipe out of the job..

When you do this besure to make a new stop block from the new base plate or the base of the machine, a bolt works good for this job...

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tpyke said:


> Update!
> 
> 
> Problem solved....I got both!:sold:
> ...


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Well done on getting both. By feeding the board into and out of the planer with it's rear slightly raised usually avoids snipe as does correct setting of the cutters, but in my Delta 12.5" planer, the cutters locate on pins and so no adjustment is required, a VERY good point to look for when buying a planer.


You see, on my Delta 12.5, there is zero adjustment apart from the cutter head heigth. Not even a cutter head lock. I would have to tighten a nut underneath the machine everytime I pass a piece of wood through it plus have a leading and trailing piece of scrap go through the planer just to "reduce the snipe to an acceptable level" according to the Delta website....


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> HI tpyke
> 
> Very good
> 
> Just a note when was the last time you needed to use a jointer a 8ft. long board not the norm


I REALLY didn't want to feed that much wood through the jointer, but because of the planer snipping 2 1/2" off the front and back of each piece of wood I fed it, I figured I would reduce the waste by only scraping 5" off of an 8 footer. 



bobj3 said:


> Here's a small tip for the portable planer,,most 12 1/2" planers have a error with the infeed and the outfeed tables (snipe issue) (setting them up) here's a way to take that error out, cut some 3/4" MDF stock, 2 ea.or 3 ea. glue them up and then cut it to 12 1/2" wide x 4ft.or longer if you have the room in the shop , clamp it to the base plate of the planer (under the blades) this will take most of the snipe out of the job..


I think I know what you mean....so if I weren't to re-aqdjust the cutter head gauge, if I wanted 3/4 stock (with the MDF clamped in place) I would set the cutter head at 1 1/2", right? I wonder why they didn't make the table solid like that in the first place?!




bobj3 said:


> When you do this besure to make a new stop block from the new base plate or the base of the machine, a bolt works good for this job...


This part I don't quite grasp....I don't really know the machine very well yet....where does the stop block belong and what does it do? Is it to prevent the cutters from cutting into the MDF?

Also, is there a reason for MDF? I have ton of hardwood strips about 1" square by 12 feet long.....would that work the same if I cut them down to 3/4"?

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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Maybe this will help:

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/plan-pm.htm


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

" I wonder why they didn't make the table solid like that in the first place?!"
The short answer is cost,,,,,,,the size of the shipping boxes, for just one.and the total cost for just one more...if you look at some of the higher end planers you will see this in place but most of the time it's flat cast iron table.....without any drop down wings....I have seen some with rollers on the input side and the out feed side that help hold the load for the long boards....I use two use two roller stands when I do long and wide boards ..the type you can get from HD/Lowes etc.

infeed and outfeed tables, It's easyer just to fold them up then let the end user play with them..you can in time get them right, but they just don't stay true...it's hinge thing...they like to spring up after load moves off the machine..take your locking tape measure and lock it under the input and the out feed side and watch it move..with the load of the stock on it..

If you build it up by 1 1/2" you need to keep the head coming down to far and wiping out the new base...MDF is flat and true unlike most real wood stock..

Most planers are mounted to a base plate,,and the cutting head moves down, you just need to screw in a full thread bolt in so it will stop the head at 1/4 from the new base, then when you want to plane some stock down to 1/2" lets say you would need to start with the +1 1/2" the guage..so to say the gauge would read read 2" thick..

I have a Grizzly and they have a hole drilled and tap just for that on the base mounting plate..

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tpyke said:


> I REALLY didn't want to feed that much wood through the jointer, but because of the planer snipping 2 1/2" off the front and back of each piece of wood I fed it, I figured I would reduce the waste by only scraping 5" off of an 8 footer.
> 
> I think I know what you mean....so if I weren't to re-aqdjust the cutter head gauge, if I wanted 3/4 stock (with the MDF clamped in place) I would set the cutter head at 1 1/2", right? I wonder why they didn't make the table solid like that in the first place?!
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

Thanks for the great info guys!


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