# The Stella Lawyers are at it again



## Roger Leclercq (Jan 28, 2009)

The Washington DC TV stations are now airing a commercial that " if you were ever injured on a table saw accident you may be entitled to money for your injuries' Saw-Stop must be loving it.

You too can be paid for doing something stupid


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

"Saw-Stop must be loving it."
Gass (Saw-Stop inventor and an attorney) probably has a financial interest in the law firm you reference. 
I wouldn't put it past that greedy S.O.B.


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Rogerv said:


> The Washington DC TV stations are now airing a commercial that " if you were ever injured on a table saw accident you may be entitled to money for your injuries' Saw-Stop must be loving it.
> 
> You too can be paid for doing something stupid


Roger, maybe it was a slow coffee spilling week at McDonalds!:agree::agree:


----------



## WayneMahler (May 17, 2012)

I seriously doubt this subject will ever just end. Saw Stop won't be happy till they get their technology passed as mandatory for table saws. I just wonder what will be next.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

No comment. No Comment. (Hold it in)

Ah heck, I can't hold back. Reminds me of a joke the late George Carlin had on warning labels... Can't remember the exact wording, but here goes: 

"_If they find out mother's milk causes cancer, where are they going to put the label_?"

Some operating manuals preface their safety instructions with something to the effect of "Common sense cannot be built into a power tool. Common sense needs to come from the operator."

PhilP has some good comments specifically on Saw Safety and how SawStop unsuccessfully tried to get there foot in the door in the UK.

Other than that (at least for now), I have no comment.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

WayneMahler said:


> Saw Stop won't be happy till they get their technology passed as mandatory for table saws. I just wonder what will be next.


In that case, Wayne, they had better make sure that their technology works on larger saws - the type used by industry - because it is probably impossible to legislate for saws sold only into the home shop market. 

If we have a physicist here maybe they'd care to work it out the difference between the kinetic energy stored in a 2.8mm thick x 250mm (10in) diameter steel sawblade weighing c.1.2kg (2.5lb) running at 3,800 rpm (i.e. something like a typical Saw Stop saw blade) and that stored in a 4.2mm thick x 500mm (20in) diameter rip saw blade weighing c.6.5kg (14.3lbs) spinning at a relatively leasurely 2,200 rpm as you'll find in larger industrial rip saw. BTW the thicknesses given are saw plate thicknesses, not the kerfs and I haven't taken into taccount the extra weight of the carbide tips and brazing. Even so I calculate the kinetic energies (poor physicist that I am) as c.1490 J and c.10780 J respectively - or about a 7.25:1 difference. The relative motor sizes, 1.5HP (1.0kW) and 10HP (7.5kW) or more, respectively, is a clue. I shudder to think how large a "consumable" braking block would need to be, or how expensive, on industrial stuff.

Regards

Phil


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Ah heck, I can't hold back. Reminds me of a joke the late George Carlin had on warning labels... Can't remember the exact wording, but here goes:
> 
> "_If they find out mother's milk causes cancer, where are they going to put the label_?"


ROFLMAO :sarcastic:


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

*What Is Your Beef With Saw Stop*



Gene Howe said:


> "Saw-Stop must be loving it."
> Gass (Saw-Stop inventor and an attorney) probably has a financial interest in the law firm you reference.
> I wouldn't put it past that greedy S.O.B.




What is the reason for the negative attitude toward Saw Stop. This issue has been observed from time to time on other threads, just wondering as I am not familiar with the history of that company.


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> What is the reason for the negative attitude toward Saw Stop. This issue has been observed from time to time on other threads, just wondering as I am not familiar with the history of that company.


Hi Jerry - Mr Gass owns the patents on the SawStop technology and for the last several years has been on a campaign to make it mandatory on all table saws in the U.S. Mostly with lawsuits against table saw manufacturers. SawStop equipped saws typically start at about $2500 and go up to around $5000. The technology is great but hard on saws, much of the price is beefing up the equipment to take the jolt, it stops and retracts the blade in <3 microseconds. In the process the braking system destroys itself and very likely the blade. 
Bottom line is it would put table saws out of the financial reach of most hobbyists. :blink:


----------



## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

Saw stop is a great saw buuut way to pricey for Me unless I hit lottery or quit work and go fulltime woodworking and then I would be probably hungry
I still cannot believe the Judge that gave the dingdong his case instead of throwing it out especially since He admitted taking off the safety features maybe Sawstop paid them off also


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The saw blade is usually detroyed when the aluminum brake is fired into it. In this photo Matt the owner of the Sterling Heights, MI Woodcraft store is holding the remains after a demonstration.


----------



## cedarwood (Feb 3, 2012)

hmmm so after the saw stop whats next bandsaw stop, router stop, planer stop hell you wont be able to have scary sharp chisels in the workshop without a safety device on them or any tools that are used for cutting. All this chap will succeed in doing is put manufacturers out of business and I am glad that my time on this planet will end before I have no choice but to buy a saw with this device, TOO many safety devices only serves to make you careless as far as I can see.
Well that's my two cents worth.


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Jerry Bowen said:


> What is the reason for the negative attitude toward Saw Stop. This issue has been observed from time to time on other threads, just wondering as I am not familiar with the history of that company.


Jerry, from what I can recall, the basic case was started by a worker, who I believe was under the influence of alcohol, using a bench type table saw on the floor. He admitted he removed all the safety guards. The case, went against the manufacturer of the saw and now the inventor of the saw stop is lobbying to make his invention compulsory on all table saws.....

I am not sure how heavily involved in the case was Mr Gass, but I believe he presented "expert advice".

Won't be long and we will see some drunk driver suing a car manufacturer after being involved in an accident.

The recent history of litigation in the US seems to absolve any idiot from stupidity. :jester:


----------



## cedarwood (Feb 3, 2012)

:stop: Ohh and I forgot no one will be allowed to use a lathe of any description unless wearing an armored suit designed to withstand high velocity impact from wood chips LOL :laugh:


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

jschaben said:


> Hi Jerry - Mr Gass owns the patents on the SawStop technology and for the last several years has been on a campaign to make it mandatory on all table saws in the U.S. Mostly with lawsuits against table saw manufacturers. SawStop equipped saws typically start at about $2500 and go up to around $5000. The technology is great but hard on saws, much of the price is beefing up the equipment to take the jolt, it stops and retracts the blade in <3 microseconds. In the process the braking system destroys itself and very likely the blade.
> Bottom line is it would put table saws out of the financial reach of most hobbyists. :blink:


Thanks for the explanation John. Now I'm on the same page with you. Jerry


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

those people w/ Incra aluminum miters tend to find out how the Saw Stop works.... A faint touch of the miter to blade is all it takes...
Then there is that wet piece of PT not helping matters...
What is it, 80 bucks for the module and 40 to 400 $$$ for the blade???

The jamb down your throat or up your what ever tactics need to stop...


----------



## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> those people w/ Incra aluminum miters tend to find out how the Saw Stop works.... A faint touch of the miter to blade is all it takes...
> Then there is that wet piece of PT not helping matters...
> What is it, 80 bucks for the module and 40 to 400 $$$ for the blade???
> 
> The jamb down your throat or up your what ever tactics need to stop...


I was in a Woodcraft store yesterday - they had a stack of about a dozen modules sitting on a new display Saw Stop saw and at $69 each. I would be hard pressed after about the second module to spend that amount of money after destroying it on a piece of damp lumber and probably would find a permanent solution so I could continue to use my costly new ($2-$3000 +++) saw (which I just couldn't afford in the first place anyhow)

And that safety aspect - people have been injuring themselves with sharp 'things' since the dawn of history. You just can't legislate out stupidity


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

IC31 said:


> And that safety aspect - people have been injuring themselves with sharp 'things' since the dawn of history. You just can't legislate out stupidity


the stupid seem to think they can do it...


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm waiting for the company to put out a demonstration where the operator touches the blade with his finger, not a sausage!


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

harrysin said:


> I'm waiting for the company to put out a demonstration where the operator touches the blade with his finger, not a sausage!


shove the hand into the blade instead of a light touch......


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

He did that in a demonstration 

===



harrysin said:


> I'm waiting for the company to put out a demonstration where the operator touches the blade with his finger, not a sausage!


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

In fairness the SawStop does greatly reduce injuries. It just shouldn't be legislated, period.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> He did that in a demonstration
> 
> ===


but did he push/shove his hand into the blade???


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Yes
==



stick486 said:


> but did he push/shove his hand into the blade???


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

I have said in the past that "I still have all my fingers, even after all these years" but I do have those two close calls in my mind, the first was on a table saw, it was in the first three weeks of my career, I was just not being careful and my right thumb touched the top of the saw blade, I don't see how I did not loose the top of my thumb that day but all I got was a nice scar and a few weeks off to consider my stupidity, but the fact was that I was just not watching the saw carefully and I learned a lot that day and I have never taken my eye of any fast cutting tool since then, and the other big cut I got was from a finely honed chisel that to the best of my knowedge, does not spin very fast at all, I do fancy myself at getting a good edge and that day I pushed the edge into the palm of my hand, There is no substitute for being careful, keep the working area clean, use hearing protection, keep your eyes open and don't push tools beyond there limit, still stuff does happen, I heard a story that was from the USA where a guy who had just bought a new RV had successfully sued the manufacturer after he had a huge roll over with the new vehicle, my memory says that the roll over happened after he set the cruise control and then got up and left the drivers seat to make coffee, the RV being pilotless went on it's own way but he won due to the fact that the manual did not say that you could not leave the drivers seat for any reason while you were going down the road, can someone please tell me that this story was true or not true!!! There seems to be no better way to get rich in the USA, other that by being an idiot. NGM


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Maybe the other manufacturers are biding their time waiting for the 17 year SawStop patent to run out? I have given consideration to their saw, but the idea of popping for an extra cartrige and blade ($ 150 or so) should you forget to disable it when cutting moist stock stopped me. I think most of us don't like lawyers much as a group.


----------



## papawd (Jan 5, 2011)

The R/V story was true and now the owners manual stipulates what cruise control is and does the Judges need to throw these kind of cases out and tell people stupidity is not a lottery ticket


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Do any of you know why sharks will not bite lawyers?

Professional Ethics...

I wouldn't trade either one of my Hitachi C10FL table saws for two of those SawStops, and I have two Hitachi C10FL's that cost less than $600.00 each. I don't see the initial cost as that much of a dissuade, but stupidity provides amazing experience. My guys that make the concrete forms are cutting all kinds of stuff and about 1/3 of it is wet.

When about 12 years old, my brother cut-off his middle finger and thumb when another kid was pulling on a thin piece he was cutting. When my dad got home David got a major butt-chewing and so did the next-door neighbor kid that assisted.

About 6 or 7 years ago, I was cutting some very thin material on a Delta table saw. The cut was going fine, when one of my coworkers quickly grabbed the piece beyond the blade and pushed-down on it - thinking he was helping. The ensuing split-second tug-a-war caused me to saw a split down through the top of my right middle finger. It healed to as good as new in a couple of months. That guy got fired for additional accidents he had participated in.

I've decided my best rule is to never let two people assist in the same cut - the other person's moves may not be anticipated and an accident can easily occur.

Several years ago, I was in a hurry (bad practice) and using a belt sander - faster than I would have ever imagined, my right index fingertip got snagged in the guard and after loosing about a quart of blood I realized my finger was about 1/2" shorter than it had been earlier in the day. The fingertip grew-back like the tail of a lizard. Not real pretty, but perfectly functional.

This past Christmas, Joy "reminded me" (last minute) that I was supposed to shell 6- pounds of pecans. OK, I thought; I will come-up with something innovative - I will start by removing the ends of the pecans on my benchtop belt sander. That method worked great for about 45 minutes, but just as a pecan got snagged under the bridgestop; my right index finger went-for-it (reflexively) and I lost about 1/4" of the regenerated end. Again, I was fortunate to be lizard-like and again regenerate the fingertip. When the belt sanders become necessary again - you can bet your disposable Saw-Stop cartridges that I will be *very* careful!

So here is my question: When is Genius Gass going to come-up with sanders and 50 grit sanding belts that will not take-off a fingertip in 2.6 nanoseconds?

My wife sums it up nicely: "You cannot fix stupid". I've been stupid many times, and probably will be more, but I am older (every day) and I bruise too easy and heal too slow...

We just attended a funeral this past weekend and I couldn't get-over the fact that there are hundreds of motorcyclists in South Carolina riding without helmets! In Georgia, motorcyclists must wear helmets or be given citations and fines. So I guess, legislation helps some idiots - but we will never live in a "safe world" - free of injuries.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

neville9999 said:


> I heard a story that was from the USA where a guy who had just bought a new RV had successfully sued the manufacturer.....


Is that another urban myth? Like the woman who sude because she tried drying her poodle in the microwave and instead ended up stewing it?

One thing I know is that Land-Rover dealers over here often offer first time buyers of their products safety training because the average driver trading up from a saloon car doesn't understand that a 3.5 to 5 tonne vehicle (cars here are rarely over 2 tonnes) with a high centre of gravity won't stop as well as a saloon, or turn into sharp bends at the same speeds. Still, this "blind spot" at least it keeps our local garage busy towing in rolled ones from the "incomers" round here :sarcastic:

Regards

Phil


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Mike said:


> In fairness the SawStop does greatly reduce injuries. It just shouldn't be legislated, period.


Well maybe, Mike, but I have to question how many of those injuries are the result of people taking guards off because the guard/riving knife supplied with the machine is downright inadequate. Manufacturers in Europe sorted out that issue on their machines a long time back and then found the next most common accident (other than kick back, often a usage problem) was caused by "run-down" accidents where the saw is switched off and continues to spin for a while. That was solved by simple DC injection or mechanical brake on many machines quite some time ago. These solutions, together with proper push sticks which never allow your hand nearer to the blade than 18in make SawStop completely unnecessary in probably 99% of cases. I'd say do the cheap fixes first, then if there's still a problem, and only then, look again at Saw Stop
.


DesertRatTom said:


> Maybe the other manufacturers are biding their time waiting for the 17 year SawStop patent to run out?


Or maybe they realise that Gas's technology probably has huge problems dealing with larger industrial saws, If you legislate for saws, surely is has to be all or nothing. Glad I'm not there

Regards

Phil


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> My wife sums it up nicely: "You cannot fix stupid".


I was in a Veteran's group, when someone said;
"_Sometimes you don't recover from stupid._" 

That has stuck in my mind for many years.


----------



## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

You can disable the brake system on the Saw Stop. "The braking system must be deactivated when cutting very green or wet timber."

If this is the case what is to stop someone from disabling and cutting his (her) hand off?

Probably why it has not got pass the law makers.

Al


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*not a suasage......"the Goons"*



harrysin said:


> I'm waiting for the company to put out a demonstration where the operator touches the blade with his finger, not a sausage!


I have seen a demonstration where the operator touched the side of a spinning blade.

The Saw Stop worked.

The silly thing about the Saw Stop is that, after the number of complaints about wet timber and treated timber setting it off, it has a built in off switch. So you can buy a Saw Stop and then turn off the activation. I wonder if the drunk operator that did that and then had an accident could sue Mr Gass? :sarcastic:


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

boogalee said:


> You can disable the brake system on the Saw Stop. "The braking system must be deactivated when cutting very green or wet timber."
> 
> If this is the case what is to stop someone from disabling and cutting his (her) hand off?
> 
> ...



Snap........


----------



## beemor (Feb 29, 2012)

The word "MAY" !!!!!!! should indicate - not likely unless you pay the lawyers first hahaha


----------



## gwizz (Mar 3, 2012)

I think I should apply for a patent on NURF covered escalators & moving sidewalk belts that have infrared activated catch nets for the idiots who fall. I'm sure I could find a law firm to make the case that it would be criminal not to replace existing stair systems with them and as people ( often the clumsy, stupid or tipsy ) get injured in escalator falls I could replace $500.00 stairs with $20,000.00 escalators.


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

I read about it.
One interesting point is, the device will prevent serious cut at the normal feed rate of cutting wood.
That leaves a question of a kick back situation, where a hand could much more rapidly enter the blade path.
The blade crashing to a sudden stop, well, that just seems a hazzard in itself.

Anyway, I did have a look a one of the cabinet models at Woodcraft in Spokane Wa.

I liked the smoothness of the blade controls.
One thing I do not like with many saws, when the locking knobs are tightened and loosened, the handwheels move.
This saw, does not do that.

Instead of an arch as most saws make, this saw the blade travels straight up and down. That would make a digital readout possible for blade height adjustment.

Would I buy one-No- the reason being, Its not even close to the Delta 12/14 I have for size, power and weight.
I do think its a machine for many that may have little experience, accident prone, or may get distracted, such as watch TV while woodworking.
And--- for those that have around $4000 to throw at a saw "of that size".

Don


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> He did that in a demonstration
> 
> ===


 Bob, you're a stranger, I hope that you're well. Where is the thread to that demo?


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Sawdust Don said:


> I read about it.
> One interesting point is, the device will prevent serious cut at the normal feed rate of cutting wood.
> That leaves a question of a kick back situation, where a hand could much more rapidly enter the blade path.
> The blade crashing to a sudden stop, well, that just seems a hazzard in itself.
> ...


Don, anyone that watches TV while using power tools.....................

What can I say.

I see so many videos on youtube where the TV is running in the background......

:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

On the forum every day and reading a lot more now days keeps me out of hot water...

I did not post the link for the demo but it can be found on the net,,,,every time the name saw stop comes up so many pop up with neg.things about it and it starts up more BS on it..


===


harrysin said:


> Bob, you're a stranger, I hope that you're well. Where is t
> 
> he thread to that demo?


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the info. Bob, I found this link :
SawStop Finger Demonstration - move over hot dog! - YouTube

Members may call me a skeptic when I question why, after filming with a high speed camera, it didn't show the finger approaching the blade frame by frame.


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Sawdust Don said:


> Instead of an arch as most saws make, this saw the blade travels straight up and down. That would make a digital readout possible for blade height adjustment.


Hi Don

I thought that the newest Powermatic and Delta saws had straight rise and fall as well (neither are imported here, so I can't get to peek inside). Using that type of rise and fall mechanism makes it much easier to install a riving knife than using a pivoted rise and fall and with the changes in legislation in the USA I'd have thought it would become more common

Regards

Phil


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

papawd said:


> The R/V story was true and now the owners manual stipulates what cruise control is and does the Judges need to throw these kind of cases out and tell people stupidity is not a lottery ticket


Thanks for that info, I am not that well and that RV story always give me a good laugh, In Australia that driver would have been cited for "Negligent Driving" and been given a big fine and his insurance company would have had to pay the whole bill, I still cannot believe that the case was even heard and I don't undersatnd why it was not thrown out of court, I always wondered how an idiot like that came across enough money to buy that RV in the first place, he must have won a different lottery. NGM


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

harrysin said:


> Thanks for the info. Bob, I found this link :
> SawStop Finger Demonstration - move over hot dog! - YouTube
> 
> Members may call me a skeptic when I question why, after filming with a high speed camera, it didn't show the finger approaching the blade frame by frame.


he touched the blade but not at feed rate...


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

OPG3 said:


> Do any of you know why sharks will not bite lawyers?
> 
> Professional Ethics...
> 
> ...


Otis the use of helmets is compulsory, inc. big fines here in Australia, not only on Motor Bikes but also on push bikes, but I still see many riders without helmets, it is mostly kids on push bikes that I see riding without a helmet and I wonder if they just stole that bike or if they are just to poor to even own a helmet? but I also see some motor bike riders riding without, I do believe in personal responsibility, but the helmet laws here do save riders from a lot of head injury's, I have to also admit that I too have a funny looking fingernail, I got it after I reshaped it on a fast vertical linisher, like you I cannot see how any device can save someone from an injury where the incident time is measured in nanoseconds, all those years ago then I did pull my hand back quickly enough from the table saw to save the top of my right thumb but I think that is was just luck that I did and it was most likely that I just "only passed my thumb close enough to nick the saw in the first place" and it was the very slight touch that saved my thumb top and it was not the quickness of my cat like reaction, you cannot legislate enough rules to protect idiots from doing an injury to themselves considering all the ways that they can do it as they go through their day and the only real way would be to require all babies to be wrapped in bubble plastic and then forced to live their life in a padded room, that is not to say that an injured person does not deserve compensation if they were led into hurting themselves by a bad design or someone else's negligence or malice, as they are, but some cases do seem to pay compensation when the case should be thrown out of court on day one. NGM


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

We have no shortage of people who think their heads are harder than concrete, and truth be known; some of them may be correct. I have a handful of health problems and like you, I have restrictive dietary requirements. 

*Migraine headaches*...I used to average 28 days of them per month - now the frequency is down to about 12-16 days per month. There's a list of foods I should avoid because they can trigger migraines. My doctors said they do not understand how I can function with so many headaches. My answer was I cannot just sit around picking my nose!
*Kidney Stones*... I've had quite a few kidney stones, and do not enjoy them - some of them are almost unbearable. There's a list of foods I should avoid because they can cause my body chemistry to produce insoluble stones.
*Type II Diabetes*...My dad had this and now I do. Yep, I love a good glass of Lemonade at lunch and a bowl of Ice Cream before I go to sleep. Sure, there's a diet for diabetes. I take my meds, check my blood glucose and give myself injections every day.
*Bone Spurs*...These can hurt like kidney stones, and guess what? There's a list of "foods to avoid" to prevent formation of bone spurs.
*Clinical Depression*...Some people have this and will never tell you, and then there is the 1% that admits it and tries to share with others that clinical depression can be helped with counselling and proper medication. Almost any alcoholic or (illegal) drug-dependant person has clinical depression. I grew-up thinking depression was something you simply never talk about, but about 20 years ago I got "suicidal" one evening; and THANK GOD had the good sense to make a list. On one side I wrote "Why I should end it all" and on the other side, "Reasons not to". I worked privately on that list for several hours. Joy and my girls had been avoiding me - and for good reason, I had become a bear to deal with. Finally, I sat my wife down and we talked honestly and she became "shaky" when I told her my thoughts. WE called my doctor the very next morning and he had me in the office of a top psychiatrist THAT DAY. Within days of taking my [new prescription] medication, I was doing much better. Since then I've probably had 300 visits as follow-ups and to verify that my meds are still working correctly. I still take those meds daily. Since depression can be exascerbated with physical pain - there are foods to avoid.
*Asthma*...Sometimes medication and inhalers are required. I've had it since birth and will keep it until my death. A handful of foods and drinks must be avoided. Many environmental conditions must be avoided.

I have to go to my doctor every three months, and on one of those visits I took several pages. On page one was foods I like to eat. Following pages were copies of page one, but with foods highlighted for my [above referenced] diets. After going over those lists, my doctor said, "Mr Guillebeau - it looks like you're down to just ice water". I am a two-time cancer survivor - *Melanoma* both times, one on my neck and one on my leg. I was born with both legs broken, because my Mother (while pregnant with me) fell down some icy fire-escape stairs six weeks before I was born. My brother is 32 months younger than me and he learned to walk before me. But guess what? It just made me want to learn to walk more than ever before.

Here in the US there are simply too many lawyers with no ethics whatsoever. Those guys will take *anything* to court. Certainly many lawyers do good work, but there are far too many to suit most of us.

This reminds me of a good buddy I had in the early 1980's, we called him "Cost Plus Charley". Charley built and lived in extremely large and expensive houses - we're talking minimum sizes well over 10,000 square feet. Charley bought his kids a Bassett Hound and they named him Otis. Since he had named his dog after me, I would ask about the dog frequently when we would speak. Charley told me one day that Otis had hurt his back - jumping off some furniture. Over the next few weeks Otis' back problems became increasingly severe. Charley took his dog to the vet - who in turn sent him and the dog to the University of Georgia Veterinary Hospital for a "state-of-the-art" surgical procedure. Charley spent well in excess of $5,000.00 on the initial treatment and then found himself needing to make his home "handicap dog compliant". He claims to have spent over $7,500.00 on the new furniture, ramps, heating pads, blah, blah, blah. The dog improved dramatically and within a year was "as good as new". One day, Charley's kids were playing kickball in their front yard. Otis walked away. Otis crossed the road - well about half of it, before a car squshed him like a frisbee. 

Sometimes a little "common sense" is helpful!
Have a good day my friend!
Otis


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Look at it this way; they can cut down on the overhead by seizing your TS (as well) when they come for your firearms...


----------



## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> Look at it this way; they can cut down on the overhead by seizing your TS (as well) when they come for your firearms...


That was just wrong!


----------



## TRBaker (Jul 5, 2012)

Here's one for stupid. Years ago when I was just getting into the cabinet business, I got some blades back from the sharpener and was frustrated with the hard to remove protective wax they had put on the teeth. I figured it would be a lot quicker to just put the blade in the table saw, turn it on, and touch it with a piece of wood. I got hit so many times, I thought I was surrounded. Just a note FYI...When the wood touches the spinning blade, the protective coating comes off VERY quickly. Since you are leaned over in anticipation of implementing this brilliant idea, it will suddenly hit you (pun intended) that it was in fact extremely stupid.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TRBaker said:


> Here's one for stupid. Years ago when I was just getting into the cabinet business, I got some blades back from the sharpener and was frustrated with the hard to remove protective wax they had put on the teeth. I figured it would be a lot quicker to just put the blade in the table saw, turn it on, and touch it with a piece of wood. I got hit so many times, I thought I was surrounded. Just a note FYI...When the wood touches the spinning blade, the protective coating comes off VERY quickly. Since you are leaned over in anticipation of implementing this brilliant idea, it will suddenly hit you (pun intended) that it was in fact extremely stupid.


true stupid can't be fixed... well, it can if it's removed from the gene pool...
your stupid moment was mistake...
mistakes teach and besides, why make the same mistake twice when there are so many new ones out there to try.....


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> true stupid can't be fixed... well, it can if it's removed from the gene pool...
> your stupid moment was mistake...
> mistakes teach and besides, why make the same mistake twice when there are so many new ones out there to try.....



Stick,

Well said and isn't that that the truth, but how can one learn without making their own personal mistakes.

Jerry


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Hi Don
> 
> I thought that the newest Powermatic and Delta saws had straight rise and fall as well (neither are imported here, so I can't get to peek inside). Using that type of rise and fall mechanism makes it much easier to install a riving knife than using a pivoted rise and fall and with the changes in legislation in the USA I'd have thought it would become more common
> 
> ...


 Phil,
I have not found much info on the newest PM and Unisaw models, they do show up used, but still more then I can afford.
One saw, Steel City 10" cabinet model appears to have straight rise and fall.
The Jet and Grizzly imports have the old arch design, but have riving knives now.
I live in a remote area, not much chance to really see new equipment.

As you know, many have really bad work habits when using table saws. 
I have to say, Sawstops Mr. Gass is no exception, when standing directly in front of the ungarded blade.
I posted a photo awhile back of a 12" rip blade that spit a couple of teeth off, I am one of the very few that stands aside, and uses the full splitter/kick back gard when possible.

Don


----------

