# It begins....



## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Well, I got a couple of projects out of the way (As well as a couple started that weren't exactly planned :grin and I've started on my router table. I successfully managed to drill some mounting holes in the insert plate without messing it up and I cleaned up the threads in the router base as well.

One way in which I think that buying a cheaper router may be biting me in the bum is those mounting holes. They're only M4 x 0.7 threads in cast aluminium, the threads aren't great and I'm a bit wary of hanging the router off of them entirely. I do have room to drill some more holes in the insert plate and add a couple of straps clamping the router base to the insert plate and taking the vertical force off of those four screws.

Does that sound like a sensible idea or total overkill??


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Use threadlock on the bolts to stop them vibrating loose.

I dont see any problem supporting the router with those bolts. If they were used to hold a bracket to the ceiling you could easily swing on them all day without them breaking.

What make of router did you buy?


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi Jon, I am with Bob on that one. No point drilling more holes - if you are really worried, use longer bolts and lock with nylock nuts under the router base. You could even use high-tensile bolts, if you could find that size, but overkill.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I also wouldn't worry. I think M4 is about average for all routers. The worn holes might prove to be a problem in the future. Rather that drilling them larger if they strip I think I would just drill them through and use a longer bolt with a nut on the top side of the base. Bob's idea of using a thread compound would help if the threads are worn but use the type that is just to keep them from vibrating loose and not the actual thread locking type. In Loctite brand it would be the blue colored one.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Use threadlock on the bolts to stop them vibrating loose.
> 
> I dont see any problem supporting the router with those bolts. If they were used to hold a bracket to the ceiling you could easily swing on them all day without them breaking.
> 
> What make of router did you buy?


Not sure I'd want to swing my bulk on four M4 screws on a bracket on the ceiling :grin: The router is an own brand router from a DIY/building company this side of the pond called Wickes - https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Multi-Purpose-1-2in-Corded-Plunge-Router---1500W/p/150411#



Biagio said:


> Hi Jon, I am with Bob on that one. No point drilling more holes - if you are really worried, use longer bolts and lock with nylock nuts under the router base. You could even use high-tensile bolts, if you could find that size, but overkill.





Cherryville Chuck said:


> I also wouldn't worry. I think M4 is about average for all routers. The worn holes might prove to be a problem in the future. Rather that drilling them larger if they strip I think I would just drill them through and use a longer bolt with a nut on the top side of the base. Bob's idea of using a thread compound would help if the threads are worn but use the type that is just to keep them from vibrating loose and not the actual thread locking type. In Loctite brand it would be the blue colored one.


 It's not so much the screws themselves I'm concerned about as the threads in the router plate which are not great to begin with (I had to tap them properly to even take the M4 screws, the plastic plate that was on the router had been fitted with Taptite screws :sad and are in a relatively thin section cast aluminium. I don't really want to drill right the way through just yet as that will totally invalidate the warranty for the router although that is always an option in the future. I'd definitely going to be using some form of thread lock whatever I do.

I must admit, coming from an engineering background I'm surprised that, given the forces involved, this is considered acceptable to hang a router on but I know very little about routers so I'm always open to advice from those more experienced than me. I'll leave it as it is for now and just monitor it carefully. If it looks like things are loosening up, I can always beef it up later.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

mr happymoose said:


> ...I'll leave it as it is for now and just monitor it carefully. If it looks like things are loosening up, I can always beef it up later.


Sounds like the best approach to me. Because you can doesn't always mean you should do something.

I no longer buy bargain power tools that I hope to use regularly.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

The bolts only have to take the vertical weight of the router. 
All torque is sideways to the screws.
As an engineer, you can work out how much torque force is required to shear all 4 bolts simultaneously, I can guarantee its a damn sight more than that router produces.
I'm English by the way (although an ex-pat), and am fully aware of wickes. In fact my plastic garden shed came from them a dozen years ago and its still fit for purpose (lol)


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> The bolts only have to take the vertical weight of the router.
> All torque is sideways to the screws.
> As an engineer, you can work out how much torque force is required to shear all 4 bolts simultaneously, I can guarantee its a damn sight more than that router produces.
> I'm English by the way (although an ex-pat), and am fully aware of wickes. In fact my plastic garden shed came from them a dozen years ago and its still fit for purpose (lol)


Glad to hear that some Wickes stuff is good LOL!! The screws shearing isn't concerning me, it's the threads in the cast aluminium that worry me, especially as, after having Taptite screws fitted they're not in the best of condition.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Can you tap the holes out to m5 or m6 to improve the holding power?


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Go with it. You have nothing to lose. If the router falls off under the table you take it back and replace it.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Biagio said:


> Can you tap the holes out to m5 or m6 to improve the holding power?


I don't think there's enough wall thickness in the casting to do that to my satisfaction otherwise I'd definitely consider it. From what others have said, I'm just being a bit paranoid so I'm going to live with it for now and just keep a careful eye on it.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Well, as life tends to do, it's restricted my shop time for a while hence the lack of progress on this. I did manage to get a little time today though and managed to butcher the work surface into roughly the size I want for the top. While doing it a couple of thoughts occurred to me.

Yup, more questions!!  I'm so sorry folks, thanks again for the patience!!

Firstly, when positioning the cutout for the insert plate, is it normal to have it central in the table or maybe set a bit towards the back? I'm probably hedging towards centrally mounted but can also see some advantages with it being a bit more towards the back. Having said that, I really don't have any experience with router tables so I could be way off the mark.

Secondly, what would be the best way to trim the edges of the particle board work top I'm using? I'm guessing probably glue and screw? I even have a light electric tack/staple gun but I don't think the tacks would get enough purchase in the particle board to grip.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

its not where it is in the table, its where it is for you to work comfortably, without having to reach across. A table for a 6 footer is no good for a 5 foot person.

i'm 6ft, my table is 3 foot square, but quite high, so I have the plate slightly to the rear of centre so I can safely reach the work piece. But i do have a T bolt slot and a mitre slot track running left to right on the front apron. i edged mine with 1" cherry (only because I had it available), glued and screwed into the edges.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

:surprise::crying::'sad::nono::angry:

So, a 40mm thick bit of particle board working surface isn't necessarily going to be flat...who'd a thunk it!!??!!

I sure as hell didn't and it wasn't until I put a long straight edge on it to start marking up for the insert table that I realised the whole thing is dished. I'm not exactly sure why or how, my suspicion is that, as we've been having a lot of rain recently and my garage, while dry inside, isn't exactly draught proof, the unsealed edges of the work top have absorbed some moisture and swollen a bit.

So, plan B is probably to do what I should have done in the first place which is to go buy a sheet of 12mm ply, cut it in half and make the top out of that. At least that way if there is any warp in the sheet, fixing the two sides together should allow me to get it flat enough and will make cutting out the hole for the insert a lot easier. Would something like Teak oil be a good finish for it, maybe with a coat of wax over the top??


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

You think ply is going to be dead flat? (uh uh).
I'm on table Mark 4, Mark one was countertop (curved like a skateboard course) and I have slowly improved each time.

For Mark 4 I have melamine board, 2 pieces 18 mm thick, glued and screwed from the underneath, screws every 12" in all directions to make 36 mm thick. Then 40 mm square cherry edging, glued and screwed in from the sides.
That is mounted onto the drawer base laying on an extra thick bead of silicone while its still wet.
Strategic weights around the top ensured it was level in both planes while the silicone dried.
I'm now working on the plan for the mark5. (lol)
OH, and I started out with the Kreg phenolic plate, but that warped. the free replacement from kreg also warped (not a lot, but enough to measure and i make a lot of small parts where dead level is important) so now I have an Incra alloy plate, which is spot on.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> You think ply is going to be dead flat? (uh uh).
> I'm on table Mark 4, Mark one was countertop (curved like a skateboard course) and I have slowly improved each time.
> 
> For Mark 4 I have melamine board, 2 pieces 18 mm thick, glued and screwed from the underneath, screws every 12" in all directions to make 36 mm thick. Then 40 mm square cherry edging, glued and screwed in from the sides.
> ...


Oh I'm well aware that plywood wont be dead flat. I'm hoping that by cutting a sheet in half and then screwing/gluing it together and mounting it onto a sturdy frame I can even out the warp. Hadn't thought of melamine covered furniture board though. I could get a 16mm x 600mm x 2000mm piece for the same price as the plywood, get that cut into three pieces and fix two or three of those together. I bet the melamine gives a nice smooth slide for routing.

My insert plate is an aluminium plate machined from a solid piece rather than cast so I'm reasonably happy that that's not going to warp on me.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> For Mark 4 I have melamine board, 2 pieces 18 mm thick, glued and screwed from the underneath


Another quick question that just occurred, what did you use to glue the melamine faced board together? Wood glue or something more like epoxy??


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I heavily scratched the melamine on both surfaces and applied ordinary wood glue, because I knew i was going to use a lot of screws anyway. To be honest, i doubt if I needed the glue, but I had it so I did it.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Well, the store made the choice for me as they were out of stock of wide furniture board but they did have some surprisingly flat looking 18mm ply so I've gone with that. Got the sheet cut in half and ready to work out where to put what once I've out the frame together. Run out of time today, but I actually feel like I'm starting to make some headway with this amongst all the other stuff I have to do :grin:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

mr happymoose said:


> Well, I got a couple of projects out of the way (As well as a couple started that weren't exactly planned :grin and I've started on my router table. I successfully managed to drill some mounting holes in the insert plate without messing it up and I cleaned up the threads in the router base as well.
> 
> One way in which I think that buying a cheaper router may be biting me in the bum is those mounting holes. They're only M4 x 0.7 threads in cast aluminium, the threads aren't great and I'm a bit wary of hanging the router off of them entirely. I do have room to drill some more holes in the insert plate and add a couple of straps clamping the router base to the insert plate and taking the vertical force off of those four screws.
> 
> Does that sound like a sensible idea or total overkill??


M4 isn't unusual in router bases and is perfectly OK to hang even a heavy router.


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## Hover (Nov 13, 2019)

What make of router did you buy?


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Well, real life keeps getting in the blimmin way but I have got the table top pretty much done. In the end I went with two layers of 18mm ply and it's actually come up okay. (Sometimes I surprise myself :grin There are a couple of wobbles on the rebate for the insert plate that were caused by operator error as I was getting used to the router, but the plate is still a snug fit and doesn't move so I'll take that! Just the frame to get sorted now. Oh, and a fence, And some kind of dust confinement as well, did I say I'd forgotten just how much mess these things make :grin:



Hover said:


> What make of router did you buy?


I'm not sure where you are so this may not be that relevant to you as I'm UK based but I went for this router in the end.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Another question has occurred to me. When you fit a router to the table, what do you do with the cable?? I don't really want to cut it short in case I ever want to take the router off of the table but coiling it up isn't good for the cable either as it may lead to the cable overheating.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Dont overthink it. A couple of loose coils zip strapped together will never cause a problem.20 foot of cable tightly wrapped is not a good thing.

Dont cut the cable short, there will always be an "upgrade" in your future.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a melamine coated outfeed table that stays dead flat because I used hand-planed flat trusses to support it from underneath. I used 1x3, drilled deep holes so the 1 1/2 inch screws penetrated about 1/2 inch into the melamine. I think trusses would do the trick for you.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

mr happymoose said:


> Another question has occurred to me. When you fit a router to the table, what do you do with the cable?? I don't really want to cut it short in case I ever want to take the router off of the table but coiling it up isn't good for the cable either as it may lead to the cable overheating.


You are unlikely ever to use the router long enough to have it heat up. Your breaker would likely cut it off long before there was any danger of that happening. Make a loose coil and hang it under the table, out of the way. You want an on/off safety switch you can bump off with your thigh. If something goes wrong while you're cutting something, you don't want to have to take your hands off the workpiece to hit the off switch. 

https://www.amazon.com/POWERTEC-710...refix=on+off+switch+for+a+tool,aps,212&sr=8-8


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

mr happymoose said:


> ...There are a couple of wobbles on the rebate for the insert plate that were caused by operator error as I was getting used to the router, but the plate is still a snug fit and doesn't move so I'll take that!


The Kreg levelers in pix are a good way to handle adjusting the plate height so it lines up perfectly with the top. I think they're about $20 U.S. for a set of four. Easy to add on as well.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@ Mr happymoose The fence is not a big deal. You want it first of all to be very flat across the front where your work piece moves against it.

Ideally you would want to have an opening wide enough for the bit to operate in. You can do this in a number of ways, including having a couple of interchangeable front pieces you can put on with different size openings. Or you can make a fancy one with a sliding pair of front surfaces you can adjust to any width. The first choice is easiest

Ability to easily clamp it to the table. Many options, but the easiest is to make an L shaped fence, a vertical fence and horizontal base that you can clamp to the base. Generally, you have one end of the fence have a pivot point so it stays pretty much in place, then the other end so you can move it forward and back easily to adjust the fence to the bit. If you have the ability to cut very square pieces, you can glue 4-6 triangle pieces tie the two peices together. 

Dust handling and collection: Lots of ways to do this. Attach a box behind the fence where the bit sits and put a hole in it the right size to fit you DC hose (see pix of shop made port). Most hoses have long plastic nozzles that will stay in place well. 

You can also purchase a DC attachment (see picture of commercial model)

You should cut a small bevel across the bottom of your fence front (1/8th inch) so the dust as you cut has a way to escape. Dust can build up under your workpiece and cause misalignment on assembly, so also brush the sawdust up before every cut.

Under table dust extraction. This is a complex topic, but essentially you want a box for the sawdust to fall into. You can attach a DC hose to the box. You must allow air into this box so the air flow will pick it up and blow it out.

Stick has also recommended something I really like, which is to add a snorkle, to the bottom of the router so it is pulling clean air in, across the router. This will help keep sawdust from being sucked into the router and gumming up the works over time.

Finally, a safety item. This is a bit of a challenge to make for someone brand new, but you might also want a safety shield as shown. This involves Ttrack as shown, which is not really hard to do, but may seem daunting to someone new to routers.

You can also put Ttrack on each side of the table, running vertically, near the edge, this will allow you to use a knob with T bolts instead of clamps--nice but not necessary.

As usual, the pictures loaded in reverse order. 
Pix one is a basic fence with DC port and a fixed opening
Pix two is the safety shield with the Ttrack showing on the top of the fence front. It also shows the movable split front. Star knobs on the back are in slots you cut with a router in the fixed part of the fence. Star knobs are very convenient. You can use T nuts or countesink tapered end bolts to keep the front surface flat. Looks complicated, but is easily done on the router.
Pix three is a simple shop made dust extraction port.
Pix four is a commercial dust extraction port. You can find these on Amazon or any of the woodworking stores online.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Dont overthink it. A couple of loose coils zip strapped together will never cause a problem.20 foot of cable tightly wrapped is not a good thing.
> 
> Dont cut the cable short, there will always be an "upgrade" in your future.


Having an electrical/electronic background I've personally seen a 'couple of loose coils' have exactly this problem to the point where they melted and actually started burning. While admittedly unlikely in this case, that's something I'd like to avoid :grin: I'm not going to cut the cable short as at some point I'm bound to want to use the router free hand and it would also invalidate the warranty.



> DesertRatTom


 Thanks for all that info, it's much appreciated. The insert plate isn't wobbling at all and (Especially once I've given the top a quick rub down for finishing) is probably just half a mil low. I have some shim stock of various kinds that I think will do for now. I chose my words poorly as the 'wobble' I was referring too are a few spots around the edge where the side of the rebate didn't quite follow the line. The insert plats still sits flat and solid without any movement though so it's really just a cosmetic thing. I do have those adjusters bookmarked for future reference though.

I think I'm going to go with something like this for my fence although I must admit I hadn't given much (Well, if I'm totally honest, none at all) thought to a safety shield. I have no T track but I do have some acrylic sheet I can machine and bend so may have to get a little creative with that and I've been looking at exactly that NVR switch as well. I think that I'm going to have to add a socket round the back of the table with the switch wired to it from the front. That way I can easily change the router if I have to and it will help keep all the cable out of the way.

With regards to DC, I guess I had hoped that the vast majority would be taken up by the fence extraction port and I hadn't really decided what to do about boxing in the router. I do like the idea of boxing it in and leaving the bottom sticking out for fresh air though. Just how much of an issue are dust and chips getting under the table?


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

A LOT of dust and chips under the table. you will need a box.

Theres a lot of talk about a router cooling fan picking up the dust in the under box and forcing it into the router bearings. If that is a concern, all you have to do is find a piece of hose big enough to fit over the end of your router, and cut a hole underneath it so the router is sucking fresh air from below the box.

I've also seen my share of electrical horrors,, but I cant see how two or at most three loops of good condition mains cable swinging in the breeze can be any danger.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> A LOT of dust and chips under the table. you will need a box.
> 
> Theres a lot of talk about a router cooling fan picking up the dust in the under box and forcing it into the router bearings. If that is a concern, all you have to do is find a piece of hose big enough to fit over the end of your router, and cut a hole underneath it so the router is sucking fresh air from below the box.
> 
> I've also seen my share of electrical horrors,, but I cant see how two or at most three loops of good condition mains cable swinging in the breeze can be any danger.


Looking at my router (Pic below) I'm not sure how easy fitting a hose to the air intake without getting in the way of the micro depth stop, speed control and the actual intake itself is going to be. I'm thinking it actually wouldn't be that difficult to make a split base for the box that would allow me to have the cooling, micrometer depth adjustment, speed control and the cable all dangling out of the bottom which would make life a little easier but would obviously need a gap round it to allow the router to move up and down for depth adjustment. Does that sound like a viable plan? It would mean that the router is at least getting a majority of fresh air rather than sucking air from the box.

With regards to the overheating cables, I saw it when I was a lighting engineer setting up at an exhibition. A couple of not particularly big fittings had an excess of cable wired up to them. Rather than trim it down there were at most 3 loops on the floor behind a booth. 10 minutes later they were smouldering. Like I said, I know it's highly unlikely in this situation but if it's a risk I can remove, Then I'll do that. Especially as my work shop is in the garage attached to the house.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

The router should come with a dust extractor collar that fits between the base and the body. if you fit a smaller hose to that you might not need to box it in.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> The router should come with a dust extractor collar that fits between the base and the body. if you fit a smaller hose to that you might not need to box it in.


Ah, it does indeed come with a dust extractor collar, that could well be a plan :smile:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Those cables carry quite a load, and exhibitors often plug in sneaked in items that are not accounted by the service company. How would I know about that? May as well play it safe.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

*Starter Pin Fitment*

I have a question regarding starter pin fitment. (Yeah, I know, another question...sorry :grin I've been reading up on actually using a router table (Should get some more shop time this week and be able to finish it bar fitting an NVR switch when that arrives) and I'm wondering about how to fit starter pins. There are two random holes in my insert plate, one at 6mm diameter and one at 8mm both 70mm centre to centre of the insert plate. I had assumed that the 8mm at least was for a starter pin (No idea what the 6mm one's for, if anyone has any insight I'd be most grateful!) but everything I've seen shows starter pins as having a threaded insert and the more I think about it, the more sensible that seems.

So my question is am I right in assuming that having a starter pin that just drops into a hole is a stupid idea as there's a chance it could just rattle out and that I need to drill and tap a hole or two for a proper starter pin??


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

The plates I have had have all had a threaded hole for the pin.
DO NOT use either of those holes in your plate, they are behind the centre line of the bit and will cause you trouble if you try to feed in from there.
looking down at the table from the working position, the starter pin should be at around 3 o clock position.
You hold one end of the wood firmly against the pin, and gently push the other end of the wood towards the bit.
Grain direction is very important. If you feed the bit directly into end grain, it will bite and snatch the wood away and quite possibly draw your hand in. Work out where the long grain is and feed to towards the long grain. Then keeping a firm grip start to allow the piece to move right to left across the bit.
UTUBE is your friend here, watch how its done.
Once the cut is started and the bit is cutting nicely, pull the wood away from the starter pin and slide the piece around the cutter.
AT ALL TIMES BE AWARE OF YOUR FINGER POSITION, router tables take no prisoners.

best to start with a bearing guided roundover bit, and practice with scrap wood, slowly increasing the cut as you get more amiliar with the operation.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> The plates I have had have all had a threaded hole for the pin.
> DO NOT use either of those holes in your plate, they are behind the centre line of the bit and will cause you trouble if you try to feed in from there.
> looking down at the table from the working position, the starter pin should be at around 3 o clock position.
> You hold one end of the wood firmly against the pin, and gently push the other end of the wood towards the bit.
> ...


So it looks like a little drilling and tapping is called for. A long shot I know, but any idea what those holes might before??

I've been watching some videos on starter pin usage but your comments about grain made a lot of sense so I went back and re-watched some again in that light so thanks for that.

I'm definitely aware of my lack of practice on a router table and the potential for re-decorating the workshop rather faster than intended in a fetching shade of deep red so once it's finished, some careful practice will definitely be done. I've had a few years experience with other assorted round spinny things and managed to keep all my fingers (A few scars, but still all 10 digits  ) so I should be good.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Quite often, router plates are fitted sideways into table saw tops. theres at least one man here who has two routers in a shared table. So the holes might be usable for starter pins depending on orientation. This is the problem with buying generic plates off ebay, but regardless, they should have threads.
Big name plates are tapped and the pin screwed in. I've had Kreg, and currently have incra, both threaded.

I'm only just 5 years into router tables now, but after a lifetime of working on machines that were all to ready to kill me if i got lazy, even then the router table needs me to pay attention.
Before you start the machine, do a dry run through, hold the wood, move it the way you are going to move it, and actively seek out potential problems. it doesnt take long to get quite good with it, but its even quicker to screw up big time.
I've had one very near miss, where i was doing a production run with small pieces. As is the way, the more I did the faster i got, just trying to shave a few seconds. The bit kissed my finger tip, enough to take the top layer of skin off and make it seep blood, but no more.
I took an hour off to think about what I was doing before i went back and finished up.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Quite often, router plates are fitted sideways into table saw tops. theres at least one man here who has two routers in a shared table. So the holes might be usable for starter pins depending on orientation. This is the problem with buying generic plates off ebay, but regardless, they should have threads.
> Big name plates are tapped and the pin screwed in. I've had Kreg, and currently have incra, both threaded.
> 
> I'm only just 5 years into router tables now, but after a lifetime of working on machines that were all to ready to kill me if i got lazy, even then the router table needs me to pay attention.
> ...


I've had the exact same thing happen when I was running a manual milling machine in a production environment. Like you say, a repetitive job, just shaving a little off here and there to try and save a bit of time and then it catches you out. The time it caught me I was wearing latex gloves and the one glove just got ripped off my hand by the tool and I had a rather interestingly shaped bruise on the back of my hand. Much like you I decided that that was a good time for a lunch break!


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Jon, seconding what Bob says.
If you mount the plate with the 6mm hole at the back (i.e. away from you), the ideal place for the starter pin would be the threaded hole under the second e in “between”, in your photo. Are you going to be using that for mounting the router? If so, slightly to the right of, or behind it. At a pinch, you could use the pre-drilled hole in front of it, if you will not be using it to mount the router. Too far away from the bit, will limit the size of pieces you can rout this way.
I cannot think what the other holes are for, except perhaps access to a height adjuster. 
I agree with your threaded hole thinking. It would be a stretch to find a push-fit pin, tight enough not to wiggle loose, but easy enough to extract without damaging the surface of the pin (or plate).
As a safety measure, take the time to make a simple holder for the piece you plan to rout., to distance your digits from the bit. There are commercial, adjustable holders for small workpieces, but a custom made one will work just as well.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

Biagio said:


> Jon, seconding what Bob says.
> If you mount the plate with the 6mm hole at the back (i.e. away from you), the ideal place for the starter pin would be the threaded hole under the second e in “between”, in your photo. Are you going to be using that for mounting the router? If so, slightly to the right of, or behind it. At a pinch, you could use the pre-drilled hole in front of it, if you will not be using it to mount the router. Too far away from the bit, will limit the size of pieces you can rout this way.
> I cannot think what the other holes are for, except perhaps access to a height adjuster.
> I agree with your threaded hole thinking. It would be a stretch to find a push-fit pin, tight enough not to wiggle loose, but easy enough to extract without damaging the surface of the pin (or plate).
> As a safety measure, take the time to make a simple holder for the piece you plan to rout., to distance your digits from the bit. There are commercial, adjustable holders for small workpieces, but a custom made one will work just as well.


The four countersunk holes are indeed for mounting my router. I'm quite happy to drill and tap holes so I'll be putting one in as you say, just to the right of that. Having had a look at a few videos, I've already got plans to make a couple of push pads in different sizes and also seen some ideas for some wooden clamps for small parts that don't look like they'd stretch my skills too far :grin:


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

*It begins...*



mr happymoose said:


> sunnybob said:
> 
> 
> > Dont overthink it. A couple of loose coils zip strapped together will never cause a problem.20 foot of cable tightly wrapped is not a good thing.
> ...


I'm late with advice, but as far as the wires getting hot, loop them as tight as you plan, then run the router for 10 minutes straight, all the while monitoring the cord temperature with an infrared non contact thermometer. I'd bet after 2 minutes it will become pretty boring. I think you would have to tape the wires together to get enough heat to be concerned.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

*...and ends*

Well, it's been a bit of a journey, a longer one than I expected due to health issues mostly but the basic table is finished.:grin:

It's not pretty by any means and there are a lot of things I would have done differently if I was going to do another one, but it is solid, really, really solid (My build style on projects like this has in the past been described as 'Russian' i.e. butt ugly and over-engineered and built to hell and back  ) but it's flat and smooth on top which is nice in a router table I feel :laugh2:

I had a few issues with a 'quirky' circuit diagram on the side of the switch but once that was sorted the NVR switch works exactly as it should do and feeds to a plug socket on the back so the router can still be taken off and used freehand if I want. I find that I can comfortably and easily get my knee to the OFF paddle if something goes wrong and I don't want to let go with my hands.

I'd like to add some edge trim to tidy it up a bit at some point but right now I don't have anything and as I'm on at least another 2 and a bit months shielding thanks to Covid-19 that will have to wait a while. I've got some plans for a fence and I need to make some push blocks as well. I have stuff for the push blocks and I probably have enough scrap to make a fence but for now I can clamp a straight edge on the table if I need to.

The other thing I'll probably do is fit some kind of router lift. Right now adjusting the height is a pain. The springs on the router are much firmer than my small one and trying to push it up while having to hold the table down requires some awkward contortions that I could do without!! Looking at the router, it shouldn't be too difficult to remove the springs which is an option for a bit further down the road.

The shop vac is still able to be fitted and I've been very pleasantly surprised at the amount of mess that it catches. I made a circle routing jig for my smaller router and there was very little mess at all, especially compared to using one with no dust extraction.

I've also made a cover to protect the table top when it's not being used and it means I gain an extra bit of workspace which is a nice bonus. Like I say, there are a lot of things I would now do differently but overall, considering I was doing what I could to use what I already had materials wise, I'm not unhappy with it :dance3:

Edit - Just want to add a huge thanks to all the patient folks here. I've had so much advice without which I would never even have begun this. Thanks to you all


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Nicely done. A lot more solid that my first two versions.

If you remove the springs you wont be able to use it out of the table. his is when routers start to breed and multiply (lol).
With that table layout, it will be easy to fit a small car type scissor jack underneath the router. Turn the handle for infinite adjustments, and you can leave the springs in if you screw the top down to the table.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Nicely done. A lot more solid that my first two versions.
> 
> If you remove the springs you wont be able to use it out of the table. his is when routers start to breed and multiply (lol).
> With that table layout, it will be easy to fit a small car type scissor jack underneath the router. Turn the handle for infinite adjustments, and you can leave the springs in if you screw the top down to the table.


The top is going to be properly screwed down. At the moment the screws holding it down are really a touch on the small side, I have some bigger ones on the way. It's so frustrating not being able to just nip over to the hardware store!!

I've been investigating lift options. I've been looking at these as I think it'll probably have a lower profile when all the way down but, if I do leave the springs in, a car type scissor jack may bell have a bit more lifting power.

EDIT - Oops...should have included the link for the lift I've been thinking about!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07MZR7...colid=TANIZNWFXCWU&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Thats the one. A lot of people use those.

BUT.................... make a ventilated spacer because that plate flat up against the underside of the router will cut off all cooling air to the router fan, resulting in very rapid overheating.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

sunnybob said:


> Thats the one. A lot of people use those.
> 
> BUT.................... make a ventilated spacer because that plate flat up against the underside of the router will cut off all cooling air to the router fan, resulting in very rapid overheating.


Yeah, that had occurred to me. I will probably get one of those reasonably soon and fit some kind of ventilated spacer, but I may have hit on at least a temporary solution, pics below :grin:


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

I am using a few sticks and a home made hand crank that cost about 90 pence to make and would be laughed out of any "serious" woodworkers workshop, but it gives me infinite adjustments purely by turning the permanently in place handle.
If it works, it doesnt have to be space age and cost more than the router.:grin::grin::grin:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Good solutions and a nice table. It will be prettier with a nice edge on it. One last thing, Stick suggested fitting a hose to the bottom of the router to pull clean, filtered air into the router. 

One other thing I have used for years is dropping a small 12mm rubber grommet into the collet so you just bottom the bit shank onto the grommet rather than drop it in and lift it 3mm. This allows you to use matched bits (Freud makes door sets like this), so you don't have to do trial and error fitting for rails and stiles, particularly on panel doors. Some propose putting an O ring on the shaft to limit depth into the collet, but this is too variable for matched bit sets.

What's next, a fence? I like the designs below but would make the fence much taller, or at least make a provision to add a 10-12 inch (300mm or so) bold on fence as well. You won't need a tall fence often, but using just a block of MDF and the tall fence, you can cut ends on on stiles, or even shape wide molding. The most important part of the fence is that the vertical fence must be 90 to the table, or base of te fence.

If you use Tbolts, you can cut channels into the table (front to back) so you can use star knobs to hold the fence firmly in place exactly as you want it. When adjusting, you leave one side tight, and move the other end, then cinch it in place. The fence generally does not need to be parallel to the front or rear edge of your table.

I've built a couple of fences and if you use high quality European Baltic Birch (nice and flat) and preferably a table saw, you can make something you'll use for years.

You can also get away with a really really flat piece of construction lumber, just use clamps to hold it in place. You don't want your fence to move mid cut or some serious cursing will break out.

You're doing great.

The third picture is of a router fence dust port, available online from one of several brands.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> Good solutions and a nice table. It will be prettier with a nice edge on it. One last thing, Stick suggested fitting a hose to the bottom of the router to pull clean, filtered air into the router.


Yeah, an edge is something I'll add once I can get something suitable but it'll have to wait until after the dust settles from the whole virus thing as I'm high risk and self isolating/shielding for at least the next couple of months or so.

I remember Stick mentioning that, I'm just not sure how feasible it is with this particular router due to the location of the fine depth adjustment and the speed control. To be honest, I've routed a bit of MDF and a bit of scrap ply with it now and with the shop vac attached to the extraction port on the router, there's zero visible dust in the bottom even with a torch to try and highlight it, something I was very surprised by. As the front remains open, I don't think I would get any cleaner air than I do now.



DesertRatTom said:


> One other thing I have used for years is dropping a small 12mm rubber grommet into the collet so you just bottom the bit shank onto the grommet rather than drop it in and lift it 3mm. This allows you to use matched bits (Freud makes door sets like this), so you don't have to do trial and error fitting for rails and stiles, particularly on panel doors. Some propose putting an O ring on the shaft to limit depth into the collet, but this is too variable for matched bit sets.


That's something I'd seen talk about and have been looking into. Your method makes a lot more sense than any other I'd seen so I'll definitely do that.



DesertRatTom said:


> What's next, a fence? I like the designs below but would make the fence much taller, or at least make a provision to add a 10-12 inch (300mm or so) bold on fence as well. You won't need a tall fence often, but using just a block of MDF and the tall fence, you can cut ends on on stiles, or even shape wide molding. The most important part of the fence is that the vertical fence must be 90 to the table, or base of te fence.
> 
> If you use Tbolts, you can cut channels into the table (front to back) so you can use star knobs to hold the fence firmly in place exactly as you want it. When adjusting, you leave one side tight, and move the other end, then cinch it in place. The fence generally does not need to be parallel to the front or rear edge of your table.
> 
> ...


A fence is definitely on the cards. I've seen a design of a basic fence but with toggle clamps at either end to hold it in place. (Bad picture below, but it gives you an idea) I've used those clamps before and once they're set right, they're not going anywhere fast. Also, I have a pair on the shelf doing nothing at the moment. I figure a basic fence will do for now until I've used it a bit more and actually get an idea of what I need and what I don't need. Once I've got a bit more experience if I need to I can look at something a bit more advanced.


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## mbrun (Jan 12, 2020)

Nice work Happymoose. A little hardwood trim around the edges will give it a nice finishing touch.

Perhaps it is just me, but it seems that the use of plunge routers in router tables is more common outside the USA. And use of that compact scissor lift seems popular. 

Having used the early Dewalt branded version of the ELU for 20+ years, I too could have benefited from that little gem. 

Enjoy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> One other thing I have used for years is dropping a small 12mm rubber grommet into the collet so you just bottom the bit shank onto the grommet rather than drop it in and lift it 3mm


Tom I've just been having a bit of a tidy up in the garage/'shop and, while I don't have any of the right size o rings as yet, I do have a piece of rubber sheet I could easily punch a disk the right diameter out of. It's only 2mm thick though so is that 3mm dimension important or could I get away with what I have either with one disc or two making it 4mm?


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

mr happymoose said:


> I've seen a design of a basic fence but with toggle clamps at either end to hold it in place. (Bad picture below, but it gives you an idea) I've used those clamps before and once they're set right, they're not going anywhere fast. Also, I have a pair on the shelf doing nothing at the moment...


Another option for fence clamps is like what I used on my table. They work surprisingly well. See pics 6 & 7. A little more info here.

Nice table already, Jon.


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## mr happymoose (May 11, 2014)

TenGees said:


> Another option for fence clamps is like what I used on my table. They work surprisingly well. See pics 6 & 7. A little more info here.
> 
> Nice table already, Jon.


Oh that is a nice idea, thanks for the tip!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> Good solutions and a nice table. It will be prettier with a nice edge on it. One last thing, Stick suggested fitting a hose to the bottom of the router to pull clean, filtered air into the router.
> 
> One other thing I have used for years is dropping a small 12mm rubber grommet into the collet so you just bottom the bit shank onto the grommet rather than drop it in and lift it 3mm. This allows you to use matched bits (Freud makes door sets like this), so you don't have to do trial and error fitting for rails and stiles, particularly on panel doors. Some propose putting an O ring on the shaft to limit depth into the collet, but this is too variable for matched bit sets.
> 
> ...


My last table had t tracks and star knobs to hold the fence in place and either 2 or 3 times I had it loosen off and ruin the piece I was working on so my newest table went back to clamping it to the table edges.

An even better option than the grommet in the bottom of the collet cone is to put an o-ring on the shank of the router bit and push it into a hole drilled 1"- 25mm in a block of wood. That's how long most collets are and that makes sure that you have the bit fully inserted into the collet while leaving you the maximum amount of bit extended. You could also put the router bit in the hole and just mark the shank with a marker too if you don't have the o-rings. You want to make sure you are using the full length of the collet but there is no advantage to having the bit go through farther than that.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ranman said:


> I'm late with advice, but as far as the wires getting hot, loop them as tight as you plan, then run the router for 10 minutes straight, all the while monitoring the cord temperature with an infrared non contact thermometer. I'd bet after 2 minutes it will become pretty boring. I think you would have to tape the wires together to get enough heat to be concerned.


mark the shanks or use the manufactures mark...


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