# Dowel jointing at 45 degrees.



## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Hi, I need to be able to repeatedly and precisely make holes for dowels to joint 2 pieces of wood in the way the picture shows:










I didn't come out with a method for this yet, I thought of building some kind of structure with predrilled holes, then push the piece of wood there and drill with some kind of stop.. but.. not sure.

Any ideas?, do I need to have a drill bank for this?, I don't, but if required I could get one I guess.

(btw, if you think of a better way to joint this, let me know!, for the moment is only glued, the structure is only used for a picture frame, so is not required to be strong, but, the stronger the better I guess.)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> Hi, I need to be able to repeatedly and precisely make holes for dowels to joint 2 pieces of wood in the way the picture shows:
> 
> I didn't come out with a method for this yet, I thought of building some kind of structure with predrilled holes, then push the piece of wood there and drill with some kind of stop.. but.. not sure.
> 
> ...


jump to the head of the class...
Dowl-It 2500 Jig | Doweling Jigs

splines or biscuits would be simpler, more accurate and faster...
change the type of miter...




























http://www.table-saw-guide.com/image-files/mitered-rabbet-joint.jpg


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Nothing coming to mind on the doweling, but for other methods:
Splines are nice
Bowtie inlay at each corner
Pocket holes (only on frames i'm not gifting--personal use only). Actually, with pocket holes, i don't even glue the corners, and i can whip up a frame pretty quickly.

earl


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Lets hear it for Pocket Holes.............I'm listening...........Don't hear much........?????

I love pocket holes for face frames and they are fast and strong, no glue either. Don't know how they would work on mitered corners,will have to try that.

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Still listening.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Sorry, I'm with Stick about splines or biscuits. Fast and easy. Can be done on a TS, router table, or with biscuit joiner. Done properly can eliminate alignment problems which can be a problem with dowels or screws.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Still listening.


I use them when is it's the best for the application..
gorilla strong too...
a biscuit and a pocket screw would be fast, accurate, strong, no muss, no fuss KISS/MISS....


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Herb Stoops said:


> Still listening.


Sorry, i was snoring...the only noise you'd have heard. 

They work very well, just have to hold back from the outer edge a bit. I've done a handful of mitered frames that way, no glue, no problems. Just cut an accurate corner, align correctly, clamp really tight, screw, done.

earl


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I use the "Ozzie Jig" for dowels and it works great for mitre corners.

Not sure if it is still available...

http://youtu.be/APVF8u5vx3c


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## denis lock (Oct 26, 2007)

Pablo

I like to quote American author, Jim Tolpin:

"Dowel joints are foul joints." A dowel joint is difficult to drill accurately and has very little face-grain to face-grain gluing area and is destined to fail over time. I agree with the other replies you got. I would use a biscuit (plate) joint or pocket hole screws.

Denis Lock - "Routing with Denis"


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## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

Rockler 1/4" Dowel Drilling Jig Kit - Rockler Woodworking Tools
Just assembled my first picture frame using that jig and,,,,,,,,,,,,perfection!
Dry fit frame and marked center-line of the joints to align the jig. Very easy and very strong, but, most importantly, inexpensive.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Herb, I don't like them. I just don't see a need for adding a ragged hole and screws to a miter. Just me.


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

So many good options.

Because of the design of the picture frame I'm building (a backlit one) I can't use pocket hole joint, or at least it would be complicated.

I'm using 3/4" MDF, I will ad some pictures later and I will also show the full process so others can see and maybe give me some advice.

If dowels are not a good idea, then I can go with splines, I just need to find a way to make the holes and to use them also as center too.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Pablo, I use a tremendous volume of wooden dowels and I am a BIG BELIEVER in wooden dowels _when used properly_. You added that you are using MDF, so I going to suggest that you stay away from dowels (it would be into "end grain") because MDF has a tremendous tendency to split in that scenario. MDF is not so great with pocket holes, either. MDF takes glue very well, so the splines or biscuits will probably be your best bet.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Pablo, because you are using Mdf I would make a blind slot or use a biscuit. I've tried splining Mdf and it is hard to sand the exposed spline flush. The Mdf sands much faster than wood does and it will leave the spline raised slightly (proud).


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow, this is a good discussion going here.
Some good ideas and explanations too. 
I,like the aussie jig too ,james would not be hard to build one. 
Different materials take different methods. Haven't seen any MDF picture frames tho.
Keep going ,

Herb


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Yeah, splines is what I will use, it's decided then.

Now I need to find a method to create the splines holes precisely so they can be used as center when I assemble the frame.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> So many good options.
> 
> Because of the design of the picture frame I'm building (a backlit one) *I can't use pocket hole joint, or at least it would be complicated.*
> 
> ...


not complicated... pocket holes go where they won't be seen...

MDF.. skip using mechanical fasteners and dowels... doomed from the get go.. it's too fragile...

splines...
bearing guided slot cutter and your router...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Wow, this is a good discussion going here.
> Some good ideas and explanations too.
> I,like the aussie jig too ,james would not be hard to build one.
> Different materials take different methods.* Haven't seen any MDF picture frames tho.
> ...


too fragile... too much flex... but they can had at wally world and dollar store.....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> Yeah, splines is what I will use, it's decided then.
> 
> Now I need to find a method to create the splines holes precisely so they can be used as center when I assemble the frame.


you have the PDF...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> too fragile... too much flex... but they can had at wally world and dollar store.....


The frames are ok, I'm painting them and they look really nice (after primer).

Anyway, what do you mean by too much flex?.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> The frames are ok, I'm painting them and they look really nice (after primer).
> 
> *Anyway, what do you mean by too much flex?*.


after time gravity wins and the frame pieces sag...
and if yu drop one .. all bets are off...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

In that case I could insert a reinforcement to avoid that I guess.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> In that case I could insert a reinforcement to avoid that I guess.


where???
use real wood to start with...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> In that case I could insert a reinforcement to avoid that I guess.


since you are painting...
use B/C or if the money isn't scary use A/C or A/B plywood and grain fill....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

grain fill...

there are commercial products...
for a painted surface use wood glue...
lightly sand the wood...
on the edge grain.. smoothed out straight strength glue...
after it dries scrape and then hand sand...
on he face grain...
thinned glue painted on..
scraped and power sanded...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

The only quality of plywood we have access here is terrible, it's a Brazilian made of eucalypti plywood.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> The only quality of plywood we have access here is terrible, it's a Brazilian made of eucalypti plywood.


so much for that plan...

time to get into re-sawing/planing....
find old *timbers * (big stuff) from old old barns/dilapidated houses/buildings and such and make your own woods...
pass on the logs and go for cut timbers...

there is a metal detector and moisture meter in your future...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

doesn't look like much but there was a decent yield from this loafing shed...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

I've added some pictures showing the structure of the picture frame, since it is backlit it needs room for the LED lights and proper diffusion.

The frame is a prototype I'm building, it's not near finished, but I think it will give you an idea of the structure.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> doesn't look like much but there was a decent yield from this loafing shed...


The person with less imagination would see the potential for a wiener roast, might get some good material as have a fire too. Lots of potential for sure.

Jerry B.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> I've added some pictures showing the structure of the picture frame, since it is backlit it needs room for the LED lights and proper diffusion.
> 
> The frame is a prototype I'm building, it's not near finished, but I think it will give you an idea of the structure.


use more butt joints and lock miters.....
rebate joints would be a good choice too..
then 23 or 28 GA the joints as clamping till the glue dries... 
that frame must weigh a ton and then some.....


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Yeah they are heavy.. but sturdy!, I doubt it will sag honestly.

I'm intrigued about those lock miter joints, I hope here I can get one of those router bits.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Artemix said:


> Hi, I need to be able to repeatedly and precisely make holes for dowels to joint 2 pieces of wood in the way the picture shows:


I must be confused. Why do you think you need a special doweling jig for that joint?

The dowels are 90 degrees from the face of the joint. It just happens that the face is 45 degrees from the far side, but that doesn't affect anything with that.
...So a standard doweling jig works just fine with that. You just need to make sure you use drill stops, so that you don't drill too deep.

You see that right?

Now if it was put in at a compound angle... where the joint was 45 degrees and had a bevel of 20 degrees (like some picture frames are) then... The faces going together still have the dowels going through them perpendicular to the face of the joint, so a standard doweling jig works on those also.

If you did needed something special, you could just set up a block in a drill press at the angle you needed, drill through with an oversized hole, press in tubing as a bushing. I've made my own custom doweling jigs that way.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> Yeah they are heavy.. but sturdy!, I doubt it will sag honestly.
> 
> I'm intrigued about those lock miter joints, I hope here I can get one of those router bits.


there are several styles... google is your friend...

this tool is a real day saver when it comes routers and set ups...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

If you are going to do lock miters get a set up guage from Infinity.

2-Pc. Lock Miter Master Jig Set - For 3/8" - 1-3/16" Stock-Carbide Router Bits | Router Bit Sets | Shaper Cutters | Saw Blades | Planer Knives | Jointer Knives | Infinity Cutting Tools

The first time I tried to use a lock miter I must have cut up a sheet of plywood making test cuts and finally gave up. 
Years later Infinity came up with this jig and in 5 minutes I had a set up and was running lock miters. Yes it is spendy,but well worth it if you are doing lock miters. 
There are some set-up blocks out there too ,but if your material isn't EXACTLY the thickness of the set up block , it doesn't work. This handy little gauge will work for ANY thickness of material and in minutes for set up.

Herb


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Infinity, Kreg, Rockler, Microjig, Festtool, etc.

Do not exist here I live and cannot be imported either.

But I appreciate your effort Herb and I will dig into it more.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Jerry Bowen said:


> The person with less imagination would see the potential for a wiener roast, might get some good material as have a fire too. Lots of potential for sure.
> 
> Jerry B.


Reclaimed wood has some cachet these days. Just putting "reclaimed wood" on the description is cause to jack the price a fair amount. I wouldn't be surprised if unscrupulous types are saying - I was going to throw it out but then reclaimed it for production so, hey, it's reclaimed wood.


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