# Planer/Shaper/Jointer advice.



## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Long time no post. I am finally to the point where I want to pick up some more equipment and take the next step to my new hobby. I want to be able to cabinets, doors, trim, book cases, stairs, whatever really. I have looking around online for equipment but with so many options I found myself not sure what to get. I want to keep my budget in or around the $3000 range. I had been in talks with someone for one of those Robland 5-1's, they wanted $2500 I offered $2000 so we might be too far apart plus its a 4 hour drive each way. I still am not sold on one of those but they have everything I would need, especially since I only have a one car garage.

Here is what I currently have......
Bosch Contracting Saw (with portable stand)
Bosch Compound Sliding Miter Saw
Delta 100 Shopmaster Bandsaw
Delta 200 Shopmaster Drill Press

I have been looking around and would you rather have a brand new Jet 12" Planer/Jointer Combo for $2250 or a used Jet 20" Planer (with straight cutter blades with extra blades and wheeled base), and a Powermatic 8" Jointer (few extra blades/jigs/wheeled stand) and plus a Mortiser (don't know brand) for $2700. They want $2700 but I would want to offer a few hundred less. Problem is either way it only leaves me with a little money for a good deal on a Shaper.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Geez, Eric, ask a simple question why dont'cha? 
Seriously, you need to ask yourself what you want to do with your woodworking. I was perfectly happy with my Delta planer until I got interested in making cutting boards. Now, I'd be happier with a 15".
I'm really wanting a drum sander now. The King 16" open arm model is a $1K.
That package deal sounds reasonable at $2,700 assuming they're all in great shape. (A 20" planer ain't cheap)
That'll make a Hell of a workshop! You'll have us drooling... 
https://www.kmstools.com/king-canada-20-helical-cutterhead-planer-106703


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Eric, I don't know how big your shop is ,but if it is a 2 car garage a 20" planer is a might large. I had a 15" Delta and that was about max. 

Herb

I reread your post and see you have a one car garage, That planer will take up a lot of space. The Robland has a 12" planer on it. Looks like a very good machine. A friend of mine had a similar one in a one car garage and built a small sail boat with it.

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. Forget the shaper unless you plan on specializing in making doors or windows. They are a production machine where you will be making a lot of one thing plus some of the bits are as costly as a new router. A jointer is a must for me and I use a lot of rough lumber so the planer is too. A 20inch is a bit of overkill but it will handle anything you throw at it. A drill press mortiser attachment works about as well as a dedicated one for most of us and doesn`t take up extra room but if it`s part of a package that is a little different. My Delta attachment cost me about $70 at a woodworking show. You have some difficult choices to make.


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.

Buck


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

BOjr said:


> I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions.
> 
> Buck


I have the same planer you do...no problems so far.

I also have a Ridgid 10" table saw which arrived with broken castings. I got zero help from Ridgid when I called their head office, nothing but a very rude brush off. Quite frankly I was disgusted.

They referred me to their "parts department" so that I could buy the replacement parts. It turned out to be another company entirely. It was going to cost in the order of $300 Cdn to repair.

Then I went to HD, where I bought the saw, 100% different attitude. They disassembled another saw and gave me the parts I needed on the spot. It seems that these castings have been a source of trouble in the past, something that HD was quite happy to tell me.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good to know, Keith. I had no particular negative evidence, but there was something about Ridgid's foray into woodworking that kinda put me off.
*shrugs*...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I really agree with this. Set up time is a total killer - wasted time. The space saving is something to consider but switching setups is going to slow you down and really detract from your enjoyment of the process. Back in the 70s, my dad had several friends that bought the old Shopsmith multitool Mark whatevers. I regularly heard a lot of joking about the how much dust they had collected. The reality was that to do anything substantial with them, there was more setting up, reconfiguring and so on than there was wood working. You have to be really really organized to avoid a lot of setup changes. First time you ruin a piece and have to cut another one you will get my point. Setting up the saw to make just one cut gets old fast. 

Personally, I would look into a small set of separate tools on casters/mobile bases. For a small space, my choices would be a contractor TS, lunchbox planer, drill press and router table as mobile separates. You can do almost anything with that setup and, with a little cleverness, can stow those into a pretty small space.

I've found that the less set up I have to do, the more I like woodworking. If I was forced into having to use a multitool, I'd probably give up.



Cherryville Chuck said:


> Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. ...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

BOjr said:


> I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.
> 
> Buck


Out of curiosity, dropping the new cutter head into it didn't void the warranty?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Good to know, Keith. I had no particular negative evidence, but there was something about Ridgid's foray into woodworking that kinda put me off.
> *shrugs*...


The Kamloops HD store has a lady manager in the tool department, sorry I don't remember her first name. She's very knowledgeable.

Turns out her hubby is a woodworker also, and she was aware that more than one of these saws had arrived with the main casting that holds the motor to the frame had snapped right off. I have pics here somewhere.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Geez, Eric, ask a simple question why dont'cha?
> Seriously, you need to ask yourself what you want to do with your woodworking. I was perfectly happy with my Delta planer until I got interested in making cutting boards. Now, I'd be happier with a 15".
> I'm really wanting a drum sander now. The King 16" open arm model is a $1K.
> That package deal sounds reasonable at $2,700 assuming they're all in great shape. (A 20" planer ain't cheap)
> ...


Well it looks like I may have been too late. The listing is no longer there after sitting there for over a week. To say I am disappointed would be an understatement but I was not sure I could make it work with my limited space. I would prefer to not have to keep upgrading machinery so I try to get something I will be happy with for a long time. However I guess there is always something bigger and better. It looks like I'll either have to shop around some more or stick with the Jet 12 Inch Planer/Jointer at $2250. 



Herb Stoops said:


> Eric, I don't know how big your shop is ,but if it is a 2 car garage a 20" planer is a might large. I had a 15" Delta and that was about max.
> 
> Herb
> 
> ...


Its 16'x22' not a tiny one car but could be a little better. its an attached garage and I have no room to expand it so I have to make due with what I had. I was hoping since both machines the guy was selling were on wheels I could easily maneuver them around. My only issue with the Robland was that you have to constantly work around yourself. That and if later on I decided I didn't like it or wanted to upgrade I might have an issue selling it. I could be wrong but it would seem easier to piece out things than try and find that one guy that needs everything. 



Cherryville Chuck said:


> Eric I`m not familiar with the Robland but any machine where you have to continuosly change the setup from one function to another is going to be a pain, but that has to be weighed against space and the possibility that you might not have room for a stand alone of one or more functions. Forget the shaper unless you plan on specializing in making doors or windows. They are a production machine where you will be making a lot of one thing plus some of the bits are as costly as a new router. A jointer is a must for me and I use a lot of rough lumber so the planer is too. A 20inch is a bit of overkill but it will handle anything you throw at it. A drill press mortiser attachment works about as well as a dedicated one for most of us and doesn`t take up extra room but if it`s part of a package that is a little different. My Delta attachment cost me about $70 at a woodworking show. You have some difficult choices to make.


That is my issue. One second I think I know what I might want and by the time I make up my mind its too late, somebody else swoops in and gets the machine(s) I wanted. With the 20 Inch planer I figured I would never have to upgrade it and it was in great shape. Whats really bothering me is the guy was only an hour away. So getting the machines would have been much easier. 

If the guy selling the Robland lived closer I would love to look at it, but I was a little scared off while doing research and I found his picture is actually someone else's machine. Which people sometimes do when selling things when they don't have a camera/phone but it should be mentioned in negotiations that its not a picture of their actual machine. 

As for the Shaper. I am pretty set on getting one. It might be over kill and I'll need a router/table set up anyways, I know. However if I decided I want to turn my focus on producing cabinetry doors, or whatever else on a more than hobby related level I'd have the option. 



BOjr said:


> I have the Ridgid 13" planer. I put a spiral cutter head in it and I love the set-up. I really like Ridgid's life time warranty and have found the company to be responsive to my questions. I didn't research the planer when I bought it and had a hard time finding a spiral cutting head that would work in it.
> 
> Buck


I haven't really thought about picking up a Rigid. My main focus searches have been around Jet, Powermatic, Delta, and some Grizzly. 

For now my options just narrowed and I wish I would have posted asking for opinions sooner. One major question I have before I forget to ask is, is the Robland X31 a 1 Phase or 3 Phase? If its a 3 Phase that would rule it out for me. Its tough to pass up an all in one machine for $2500 that has a 12 inch planer/jointer when a Jet 12 Inch jointer/planer combo is going to run $2250 alone.



PhilBa said:


> I really agree with this. Set up time is a total killer - wasted time. The space saving is something to consider but switching setups is going to slow you down and really detract from your enjoyment of the process. Back in the 70s, my dad had several friends that bought the old Shopsmith multitool Mark whatevers. I regularly heard a lot of joking about the how much dust they had collected. The reality was that to do anything substantial with them, there was more setting up, reconfiguring and so on than there was wood working. You have to be really really organized to avoid a lot of setup changes. First time you ruin a piece and have to cut another one you will get my point. Setting up the saw to make just one cut gets old fast.
> 
> Personally, I would look into a small set of separate tools on casters/mobile bases. For a small space, my choices would be a contractor TS, lunchbox planer, drill press and router table as mobile separates. You can do almost anything with that setup and, with a little cleverness, can stow those into a pretty small space.
> 
> I've found that the less set up I have to do, the more I like woodworking. If I was forced into having to use a multitool, I'd probably give up.


That is what worries me. I would get easily annoyed if I were using one machine and had it all set up and had to do something else and have to redo everything. Issue I am running into would be space and affordability. I figure I can go for the Planer/Jointer Combo Machine which saves a bunch of room, but at the cost of over $2200 it eats up a lot of my budget. I do have a pretty good contractor saw so I guess if I were using the shaper on the Robland and had to recut something I could just use that. Another thing someone might be able to help me out with is how much dust collection is enough? I saw a few of the machines out there for around $200 each. Would this be worth picking up for $200? Or would I need something larger?

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/t...mpaignId=T9F&gclid=CKG5i57i1MoCFYSBaQodgKUBmQ


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Well looks like I was wrong, I did another search and found the same guy with the Jet 20 Inch Planer and Powermatic 8" Jointer so it is still available. It sounds like I wouldn't have nearly enough room for these machines though.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Eric I may be seen as being overly pessimistic but I strongly doubt that you will be operating a cabinet door or window operation out of your 1 car garage. To do something like that profitably you need to either run hundreds of pieces at a time or have dedicated machines set up with one set of bits that never get changed so that you can just walk over a flip a switch when you need to run something. Price of bits is also an issue. A Freud rail and stile set will run you $260 and a raised panel cutter another $150 or so. Plus a shaper takes up a lot of floor space. For the home shop they really aren't that practical.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Eric I may be seen as being overly pessimistic but I strongly doubt that you will be operating a cabinet door or window operation out of your 1 car garage. To do something like that profitably you need to either run hundreds of pieces at a time or have dedicated machines set up with one set of bits that never get changed so that you can just walk over a flip a switch when you need to run something. Price of bits is also an issue. A Freud rail and stile set will run you $260 and a raised panel cutter another $150 or so. Plus a shaper takes up a lot of floor space. For the home shop they really aren't that practical.


I hear what you're saying and I didnt take offense to it. After all I am hear for advice and opinions. I am not sure the standard size of a one car garage but I just measured mine and its 23.5 x 17 feet, not including another little side nook where I could store a machine 3'x3'. I do have a lot to think about and trying to figure out a functioning floor plan I think should be my first step. I am aware of the cost of getting bits as I already plan on buying the Freud system so I can remodel my kitchen. I would disagree that a garage my size couldn't have a functional work area if don't right but I guess you'd know better than me (being serious). I guess I'll have my answer once I get an idea of how large all of the machines are and how much area I need to use them.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Eric, I think it is as much about the space that you need around the machinery as it is the machinery itself.

I recently picked a commercial shaper from a cabinet shop closing in the Vancouver area. He was being forced out by a new Skytrain station going up. I would say his shop was about 12-1300 square feet and he made mainly kitchen cabinets. He had every machine you could wish for...but not much room around any of them.

He had done a great job of laying the shop out, but still he said he would love to have had another 1000 square feet. Material storage was one of his big bugaboos. Same as mine is going to be.

You have just 400 square feet to work with and I wish you well in working out your floor plan.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

A little update. I just got back from a long road trip picking up a few machines. Got stuck in a nasty snow storm but it was worth it. I ended up getting a Delta Cabinet Saw 10", an 8" Grizzly Jointer, a 3HP Grizzly Shaper, and a 20" 5HP Grizzly Planer. Still have a ways to go but it is a good start.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Wow, that's a great start on a woodshop right there. Hope you got good prices on them. Now get makin' sawdust and keep us apprised of your progress.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I know, it's getting old...


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> Wow, that's a great start on a woodshop right there. Hope you got good prices on them. Now get makin' sawdust and keep us apprised of your progress.


Thanks. I think I overpaid for the Shaper but it is in great shape with little use on it. I've got about $3550 into all of it including a table top Delta Bandsaw and Drill Press and some new Diablo saw blades. I'll have a little rewiring to do to accommodate the new machines and I still want to pick up a dust collector but I think I have the majority of tools I need now. My main regret was I didn't have more time to chat longer with the three people I bought the machines from. All of them were really friendly and helpful. 

I am looking forward to getting everything situated and finally getting to start remodeling my kitchen later this year.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah, a good shop starts with lots of power capacity where the tools are going to be. I went so far as to upgrade our service so I have around 120A available to me. Every wall has a quad 120VAC outlet every 4 feet and a 240VAC outlet every 8 ft. I even have dual 120VAC outlets between each of the 5 garage doors. There are 2 240VAC circuits, one of which is 50A. Have fun!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Eric; is this of any help to you?
Shop Layout Guide - Issue No. 288


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks. I played around with it a little bit and I have a decent idea of how my layout is going to be. I have to get rid of a few unneeded things taking up space (pool table/exercise equipment in my garage first). The only issue I should ever have is when working with larger lumber longer than 8 feet. Luckily I don't expect to be making much over 8 feet. Even then it won't be much of an issue. Now it is just finding the right shaper cutters for making cabinet doors and regular doors.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Don't want to create a new thread so I'll post here. I have a question on wiring my Grizzly 5 HP 220V 25 amp planer. It doesn't have the plug with it the guy removed it when I bought it and no manual. Would I be alright running it on 10/2 gauge wire with a 30 amp breaker? The run is short maybe 15 feet. I know the 80% rule so it would fall just short of that. The guy did tell me it said 30 amp 220-240v written on the plug however my shaper plug says 20 amp when in reality it needs to run off a 30 amp breaker because its an 18 amp machine. Anyone care to help me out?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Eric; do you have to rewire for it anyway?
Why not just bump it up to #8 with a range plug set and 40A breaker? Other than the extra wire expense everything else is the same price, more or less...
Geez, that's a big motor!!! Tim the Toolman big.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

96BelisleAs said:


> Don't want to create a new thread so I'll post here. I have a question on wiring my Grizzly 5 HP 220V 25 amp planer. It doesn't have the plug with it the guy removed it when I bought it and no manual. Would I be alright running it on 10/2 gauge wire with a 30 amp breaker? The run is short maybe 15 feet. I know the 80% rule so it would fall just short of that. The guy did tell me it said 30 amp 220-240v written on the plug however my shaper plug says 20 amp when in reality it needs to run off a 30 amp breaker because its an 18 amp machine. Anyone care to help me out?


10/2 wire? That should be either 10/3 or 8/3. You need both the hot feeds and the neutral to make 240v.

When in doubt I would be inclined to go for the heavier wire as Dan suggests. Nothing wrong with giving yourself some extra insurance. The planer will no doubt be called on to do some serious work, the thicker the wire, the cooler it will run.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It may or may not be set up for 2 leads and a neutral Keith. A neutral is not required for a 220 volt circuit unless you intend to add a light or clock (for example on an electric stove. A water pump doesn't have a neutral connection). Each lead is the return wire for the other. You still need a ground for safety but it isn't counted as a conductor. I would agree with the heavier wire though. Although I think 10 gauge is code for a 5hp motor, bigger is always better.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Most 220VAC motors don't use the neutral. My TS and planer are 220 and neither use it. My shop heater is 220 and doesn't have it. Now, my EV charger does use the neutral. Also, RVs that have a service hookup use the neutral. 

The best bet is to look at the manual. It should tell you what you need for the wire, outlet and breaker. Grizzly manuals usually have a detailed section on this. Eric, you should be able to get the manual from Grizzly's site. What is the model number?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

If you use a range receptacle and plug set, you'll get the neutral conductor whether you need it or not.
Wire up to the receptacle with 8/3/1 and it's there if you need it down the road. 
_(somebody asked a while back what the "1" stood for. It indicates a ground wire...technically a ground is not a 'conductor' by code definition.)_


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I've never wired a plug onto anything before so I am a bit out of my element. The math told me a 30 was a tad short of the 80% to run the 25 amp motor, but the guy told me 30. I already ordered 10/2 wire for my shaper and the plug and outlet to run my planer. The planer has three wires red, black , and green. When I searched for the manual online it kept bringing up the Z model with the feeder. My machine is G5850.

I picked up this plug, I am guessing it won't work?
Nema L6-30P 30 AMP 250V with the matching outlet.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Try this one. It's for the 5850Z but I expect it to be fairly similar. It says 28 Amps for the 5 HP motor and recommends a 40A circuit.



96BelisleAs said:


> I've never wired a plug onto anything before so I am a bit out of my element. The math told me a 30 was a tad short of the 80% to run the 25 amp motor, but the guy told me 30. I already ordered 10/2 wire for my shaper and the plug and outlet to run my planer. The planer has three wires red, black , and green. When I searched for the manual online it kept bringing up the Z model with the feeder. My machine is G5850.
> 
> I picked up this plug, I am guessing it won't work?
> Nema L6-30P 30 AMP 250V with the matching outlet.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

That is the one I kept finding. Mine has a 25 amp motor, not a 28. It also has two motors on it so I thought it would be wired differently.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

96BelisleAs said:


> I've never wired a plug onto anything before so I am a bit out of my element. The math told me a 30 was a tad short of the 80% to run the 25 amp motor, but the guy told me 30. I already ordered 10/2 wire for my shaper and the plug and outlet to run my planer. The planer has three wires red, black , and green. When I searched for the manual online it kept bringing up the Z model with the feeder. My machine is G5850.
> 
> I picked up this plug, I am guessing it won't work?
> Nema L6-30P 30 AMP 250V with the matching outlet.


Green is always the ground. The other two are hot leads.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

To me its time to hire an experienced electrician who knows code and how to wire for you. Won't cost you much for a couple of hours, but you won't screw up by making a less than obvious error. You put a lot of bucks into the gear, add a bit more and have it done right.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> To me its time to hire an experienced electrician who knows code and how to wire for you. Won't cost you much for a couple of hours, but you won't screw up by making a less than obvious error. You put a lot of bucks into the gear, add a bit more and have it done right.


this is good advice. Especially the part about wiring up a 220VAC outlet.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Eric the connections are pretty simple but if you don't understand them then you should get an electrician to help. You mentioned 80% and I'm guessing that it refers to circuit loading. An average house circuit can be loaded to 100% but any continuous load such as a circuit to run baseboard heaters has to at 80%. In an industrial situation it is assumed that those motors could be run continuously over a shift and might therefore be required to load the circuit only to 80% of capacity. In a residential situation where you are unlikely to run that machine continuously you might be allowed to load the circuit to full capacity. You would need to ask an electrician or your local wiring inspector about that. By the way, just in case it comes up, the code here allows you to use a plug as a disconnect but it is has to be within easy reach of the appliance. I can't remember the exact distance. I think it's 3' or 4'. 

My planer is in between yours and a bench top model like the DW735. If you want to collect the chips with a DC it will have be a very large one. I took the dust chute off mine the first day and I just blow the shavings on the floor in the mechanical half of my shop. In an 8 hour day of working alone I can make at least a pickup full of shavings, maybe two, so this is something you should be prepared for. There was a thread a while back that Cricket, our Admin, started titled what do you do with the shavings that may may want to look for because you will need to find an outlet for them.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I learned something new. I thought the 80% rule was just in general use. I've got someone coming over to take a look at it (weather pending). However I like to try and learn how to do things and wanted to see if I could get all of the correct supplies and have it figured out before they came over. My major hang up was the planer. So what wire exactly am I looking at? A 10 gauge wire with a 30 AMP breaker will not work on a 25 amp machine with a wire length 12 feet from the box? 

Assuming it won't and I am going to have to go with a 40 Amp breaker and not a 30 and 8 gauge wire not 10 will I need 8/3 or 8/2. The information I looked up (unless I misunderstood) said in some instances you can and I wasn't certain which wire I would need. Did I misunderstand that I cannot use an 8/2 in this scenario? I figured since the planer only had two hot leads the black and red with green being ground I could use the black and white from an 8/2 for the hot leads in this scenario as long as they were marked correctly in the subpanel , is this incorrect? I understand these questions are probably ridiculous to some people but I have learned I'd rather ask questions and learn something from people willing to help than never ask and never learn anything. 

As far as my shavings go, I had planned on getting a 3HP Dust Collector but haven't done a ton of research on them yet to see if it would meet my needs. That and my budget is tapped out so can't afford one just yet. If the chips were an issue I would think I could just cut a hole and run a short line of PVC outside of my garage to a collection bin.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

You should look at your motor wiring diagram but I bet 8/2 is right. If it doesn't show a neutral, you only need 8-2. Also, I went for 16' cords on all my machines. 

In terms of shavings/chips/dust, if I were you, I'd look into building a thien "cyclone" separator that sits between your DC and the machines. You will get the vast majority of chips there (80-90%). I have mine sitting over a 32 gal metal trash can which makes it super easy to dump out when it fills up. I've emptied mine about 10 times in the last year and the DC bag just once.

Also, if you don't have any DC, you might want to go get the harbor freight 1 1/2 HP one. It's cheap (<$200 on sale) but works surprisingly well. Lots of articles about mods and such for that DC. I have a 2 HP griz that is very similar to the HF one. I bought it used and thought I would eventually upgrade but so far it has worked pretty well. Not sure I will ever upgrade.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The reason why the average house circuit is allowed full loading is because it rarely happens and if it does it isn't for very long as a rule since it is usually a mixture of lights and plugs and you might hit around the 15 amp mark if you have a bunch of things on and you plug in a vacuum. According to my code book (for BC and a few years old now) a 30 amp circuit requires 10 gauge wire and will handle dryers to 7200 watts. Watts = amps times voltage. I didn't bother doing the math to see if that is 80% or not. 40 amps requires #8, a 50 amp welder recepatacle still usually uses #8, and if you installed a 60amp sub panel you should use #6.

My book says that house runs longer than 75' should have at least some of the beginning of the run using #12 to offset line losses (15 amp circuit). Where you have a hot lead on a 220 circuit that is white some inspectors I have dealt with like to see black or red tape wrapped around the conductor so that it is easily identified as being live. If the planer has two motors and only one set of leads then the motors are both wired to the switch.

As for the pipe, unless you have something moving the shavings through it it will plug very quickly. That's why I took the chute off mine. It plugged up right away. However, I do a lot of planing of rough sawn lumber which is why I produce so many shavings so your mileage may vary.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> You should look at your motor wiring diagram but I bet 8/2 is right. If it doesn't show a neutral, you only need 8-2. Also, I went for 16' cords on all my machines.
> 
> In terms of shavings/chips/dust, if I were you, I'd look into building a thien "cyclone" separator that sits between your DC and the machines. You will get the vast majority of chips there (80-90%). I have mine sitting over a 32 gal metal trash can which makes it super easy to dump out when it fills up. I've emptied mine about 10 times in the last year and the DC bag just once.
> 
> Also, if you don't have any DC, you might want to go get the harbor freight 1 1/2 HP one. It's cheap (<$200 on sale) but works surprisingly well. Lots of articles about mods and such for that DC. I have a 2 HP griz that is very similar to the HF one. I bought it used and thought I would eventually upgrade but so far it has worked pretty well. Not sure I will ever upgrade.


Thanks. I will have to look into it. I actually missed out on a Grizzly 3HP one for $175 not too long ago from craigslist. It was just a little far for me to drive at the time. If I wasn't already driving 8 hours to pick up all my other machines I would have. Other than making a few things here and there I don't plan on using the machines a whole lot right now so have time to look for the right deal on dust collectors. Being I have no experience with them at all and haven't done much research would a 3 HP system be able to handle a planer, jointer, shaper, and cabinet saw?



Cherryville Chuck said:


> The reason why the average house circuit is allowed full loading is because it rarely happens and if it does it isn't for very long as a rule since it is usually a mixture of lights and plugs and you might hit around the 15 amp mark if you have a bunch of things on and you plug in a vacuum. According to my code book (for BC and a few years old now) a 30 amp circuit requires 10 gauge wire and will handle dryers to 7200 watts. Watts = amps times voltage. I didn't bother doing the math to see if that is 80% or not. 40 amps requires #8, a 50 amp welder recepatacle still usually uses #8, and if you installed a 60amp sub panel you should use #6.
> 
> My book says that house runs longer than 75' should have at least some of the beginning of the run using #12 to offset line losses (15 amp circuit). Where you have a hot lead on a 220 circuit that is white some inspectors I have dealt with like to see black or red tape wrapped around the conductor so that it is easily identified as being live. If the planer has two motors and only one set of leads then the motors are both wired to the switch.
> 
> As for the pipe, unless you have something moving the shavings through it it will plug very quickly. That's why I took the chute off mine. It plugged up right away. However, I do a lot of planing of rough sawn lumber which is why I produce so many shavings so your mileage may vary.


Thanks. I am already pretty caught up on what gauge wire I need that is actually pretty simple to figure out. Nothing I am running is going to be very far from the electrical panel so I shouldn't have to worry about voltage loss because of lengths. While I was putting the shaper together I did just notice it had 4 wires so it looks like I am going to have to take back my 10/2 anyways.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

My 2 HP DC (Older version of the G1029) is more than adequate for my 15" planer when doing fairly wide boards. A 3 HP should be even better. A planer is the worst case chip generator so if that works, everything else is child's play. I've heard of people using the 1.5 HP HF DC for larger planers.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Your 8/3 wire should actually have 4 wires. Red and black for the hot, that's 120v for each side, making your 240v, white for the neutral and green for the ground.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

96BelisleAs said:


> Nothing I am running is going to be very far from the electrical panel so I shouldn't have to worry about voltage loss because of lengths. While I was putting the shaper together I did just notice it had 4 wires so it looks like I am going to have to take back my 10/2 anyways.


You won't need to worry about line losses in your situation. Some motors come with extra wires, particularly ones that can be run on 110 or 220 so it wouldn't hurt to pull the connection box cover off and see if there is a motor connection diagram under it (there usually is unless displayed elsewhere). If the machine came with the option of a power feeder it might be 110v so it would require a neutral.


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Thanks guys. I'm still freeing up room in the garage but everything seems to be going well. I'll have plenty of room to work. I have it set up where I can run 10 foot pieces of lumber through the jointer, planer and cabinet saw. I finally got around to starting to rewire everything. Had to run new water lines and gas lines to move the washer and dryer our of the garage and into anew laundry room so I've been busy. Only have 10 inches between concrete slab and floor joists so it was quite the chore. I got the jointer and planer hooked up as well as new shop lights. Only issue I have is on start up the planer clicks once and sparks. It runs fine and sounds fine afterwards but has done it every time on start up. I asked the guy I got it from and he said it did it to him when he hadn't used it much. Is this normal? Maybe a capacitor?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The clicking sounds like capacitor/starting relay but the sparking isn't normal from my experience and not a good thing in a dusty atmosphere.

By the way, do you have air flow below those joists? If you don't they will rot out prematurely.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

The click could be anything. Where are the spark and click coming from? I'd look for evidence of burning, especially around the switch/relay/wiring


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The clicking sounds like capacitor/starting relay but the sparking isn't normal from my experience and not a good thing in a dusty atmosphere.
> 
> By the way, do you have air flow below those joists? If you don't they will rot out prematurely.


The beams have plenty of airflow, half of the crawl space opens up into my attached garage. I actually put the beams in several years ago when I tore down the addition and rebuilt it. They still look as new as if I put them in yesterday. There is zero chance of rot or excess moisture. 



PhilBa said:


> The click could be anything. Where are the spark and click coming from? I'd look for evidence of burning, especially around the switch/relay/wiring


There was absolutely no burning smell. The click is a popping noise, sort of like those little white snapper/popper fire crackers kids throw on the ground and pop or a static discharge noise. It was coming from the motor. I just fired it up to be sure and there is definitely a spark.Just one right at start up. It likes up the entire housing looking in through the fan. I am not too familiar with heavy machinery like this so I wasn't sure if it was normal.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Don't think it's normal. It sounds like the pop is from the spark. Maybe the centrifugal switch is arcing?


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## 96BelisleAs (Aug 13, 2013)

I hope its nothing serious. I probably overpaid for it as is and would be pretty upset if something major was wrong and I wasn't informed about it. If its not normal I hope its something simple I can do myself like cleaning crud out of it or changing out a capacitor. If you guys think it would help diagnose the issue I could take a video of it later today and post it. There really isn't much to see though, just the spark/pop sound and a small burst of light. Like I mentioned there is zero smell of anything burning, at least not yet. I ran a board through and made several passes yesterday and no smoke or smell.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Eric I would suggest you check with an electrical repair shop that repairs power tools and take the picture of the setup to them. I have quite a few tools and have been around quite a few tools and I don't ever remember them making that type noise. It could still be something minor and they would be more likely to know what it could be and if it might be dangerous.


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