# Building a router table with adjustable height



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys my dream router table needs to be adjustable height wise .
Was hoping to have a range around 24" when lowered and 38" when it's raised .
Not to sound like a broken record but the reason was as I need to be around 33"1/2 when I use it as an outfield table for my table saw , and 36" to 38" when routing . Going low would be nice when I'm building projects on it . So this table is to save real estate by being versatile. 
I drew up a crude drawing in Photoshop to show you a new theory that I dreamt up . 

My first idea was to use two linear actuators , one on each end , and have four drawer slides mounted vertically for guiding . 

Now I have a new idea where I do a scissor action system , where as there's just a single actuator installed in between the two scissor areas that lifts it all , as opposed to having two actuators (one on each end) and an extra feed back controller to keep them in sync .
As you know if you had boards hinged on the one end and pivoting in the centre where they cross, that the other end would change it's distance , so I figure have the one end of the scissors attached to drawer slides , thus letting the distance change as it's scissoring . 
There would be one scissor on each side of the table length wise . I was going to build the table approx 6' long and 32" wide . The picture only shows one side .
I hope the crude pic helps you understand my concept. The drawer slides are connected to the lower and upper parts of the table but I didn't portray that very well . A jack screw would work also , but I have always loved using linear actuators .
I really think this would make a very stable table when it's stopped and be self levelling .

Seeing as the scissor action would be in the way of the sides I was going to have the router lifts installed on the ends which would be wide open. If the table seems too sloppy side to side I guess additional vertical drawer slides could be incorporated.
Any opinions good or bad on my idea?


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## rickjb (Nov 26, 2010)

Rick - the second idea - the one with the scissors, seems to me to be the more stable version. Your router table, when lifted to its max height, has to be stable in all directions - up and down, fore and aft, left and right, etc. When you are working with the router and pushing a board across the bit, you NEED rock solid stability.

That said, the scissors approach SEEMS best - but I am concerned about the drawer slide mechanism(s). These things have a bit of wobble built in - no matter how expensive a set you buy. So, referring to your drawing, the left side looks fine, but I would be concerned about the right side, IF you only used drawer slides for holding everything in place. But, if you added some mechanism to stabilize the unit when lifted, you should be fine. My other concern is how are you going to connect the scissor leg to the drawer slide? A bolt head could get in the way of the mechanism from closing properly.

Just some thoughts.

Rick


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Hey Rick like I say it's a rather crude drawing . The scissor end would be secured to a horizontal board which has the drawer slider mounted to it . So essentially two boards would be sliding together almost normally , other than the one would have the scissor attached to it .
Maybe it's back to four linear actuators lol . Like you say , she's gotta be stable.
Another crude drawing .it doesn't show the way the slides would really be connected to the scissors.
I think your right about stability though . This may be a wash 
I was thinking if the scissor parts were made of a few layers of 2by6 's that they might be fairly resistant to side to side deflection. As mentioned other sliders could be incorporated vertically to help with stability also .


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## rickjb (Nov 26, 2010)

Your second picture is what I thought you would be doing - so now you have confirmed that.

Throwing thoughts on the table - in lieu of drawer slides, what if you were to put a solid rod, threaded at both ends, thru some slotted wood at the lower and again at the upper ends of the sliding ends of the scissors? This could even be galvanized pipe. A bit of lithium grease and a hard stop on the inside (once up) would provide a solid fixture, I think. The scissored legs would have to be essentially one piece or cross braced to maintain true parallel movement so it doesn't rack. 

Again - just 2 cents worth - but when I build things to work with in the shop, I build stout.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

rickjb said:


> Your second picture is what I thought you would be doing - so now you have confirmed that.
> 
> Throwing thoughts on the table - in lieu of drawer slides, what if you were to put a solid rod, threaded at both ends, thru some slotted wood at the lower and again at the upper ends of the sliding ends of the scissors? This could even be galvanized pipe. A bit of lithium grease and a hard stop on the inside (once up) would provide a solid fixture, I think. The scissored legs would have to be essentially one piece or cross braced to maintain true parallel movement so it doesn't rack.
> 
> Again - just 2 cents worth - but when I build things to work with in the shop, I build stout.


Your idea is better . I went to homedepot and the carpenter didn't like my idea at all , says those slides are not rated for anywheres near what I'm doing .
So I'm putting the kibosh on this idea .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm kinda liking this now . Just gotta find me one of these contraptions . At lordco he figures it's an ATV jack .save me a whole lot of headaches if it's stable enough .
But tell you the truth I think it's coming down to a torsion box . Do multiple layers of boxes I guess. No stability issues whatsoever


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

rickjb said:


> Your second picture is what I thought you would be doing - so now you have confirmed that.
> 
> Throwing thoughts on the table - in lieu of drawer slides, what if you were to put a solid rod ,threaded at both ends, thru some slotted wood at the lower and again at the upper ends of the sliding ends of the scissors? This could even be galvanized pipe. A bit of lithium grease and a hard stop on the inside (once up) would provide a solid fixture, I think. The scissored legs would have to be essentially one piece or cross braced to maintain true parallel movement so it doesn't rack.
> 
> Again - just 2 cents worth - but when I build things to work with in the shop, I build stout.


Just wanted to mention that my first idea was to use four threaded rods with sprockets on them and have a chain that turned all 4 at once . No synchronization issues and would be as sturdy as anything . However , try finding acme threaded rods that except a sprocket . I tried and found a few but nothing great .
I may kibosh wood working and buy a dirt bike . It sucks breaking bones at 53 , but it is what it is


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Rick, I don't know if you have a Harbor Freight up there in Canada, but you can get one of those jacks there. You can also order from Harbor Freight.com. 1000 lb. Capacity Hydraulic Table Cart


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

After looking at that jack further, that's exactly the one that you see in your picture. Looks like he took the wheels off and slid his base lumber right where the wheel use to be. Hmmm, I'm kinda liking this myself....


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

N'awlins77 said:


> After looking at that jack further, that's exactly the one that you see in your picture. Looks like he took the wheels off and slid his base lumber right where the wheel use to be. Hmmm, I'm kinda liking this myself....


Good call , I swear your right! 
This would be easily worth buying for what I want . Now the bad news , I'm in Canada 

I also wonder how solid it feels when it's in the raised position ? I could make it so it's 24" high when it's at its lowest , then it would probably get to 38" with ease .
There's a store in the US just below me . I'm going to see if they stock them

Update : nothing in cour daleane


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

RainMan1 said:


> .
> Update : nothing in cour daleane


Well that sucks!! And I guess they don't deliver up there, from their main warehouse? Or I guess it would cost too much to ship it. Next chance I get (I live close to a HF, I'm going to go check one out. See how sturdy it is, in it's up most position.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

N'awlins77 said:


> Well that sucks!! And I guess they don't deliver up there, from their main warehouse? Or I guess it would cost too much to ship it. Next chance I get (I live close to a HF, I'm going to go check one out. See how sturdy it is, in it's up most position.


Well that's why I was hoping they had one in stock so hopefully I could see how stable it is .
But of course not lol . I could drive further to Spokane Washington. I guess .(if they even have one ) 
I'm on call for 5 more weeks and can't leave town though 
I guess I could always get another employee to take one day. Guess I'll phone Spokane

Update : 
Ok they got lots in Spokane . Talked to an employee and they actually use them in the store . He said they seemed extremely solid . 
It's a 3.5 hour drive . Not the end of the world but a nuisance


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

N'awlins77 said:


> Well that sucks!! And I guess they don't deliver up there, from their main warehouse? Or I guess it would cost too much to ship it. Next chance I get (I live close to a HF, I'm going to go check one out. See how sturdy it is, in it's up most position.


Lee when you think of it I just can't fathom a scissor being that sturdy ,well for side forces . I mean when you look at the metal they use it's not that thick . I guess if was rated for 5000 lbs it may be thick as heck , but were talking a cheap version here . Sure looks like a cool idea though


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

*Ding, ding, ding!*

Rick my friend, Did you ever do any weight-lifting? I did a lot in my younger years - high school and college. Back then the "Stands for Bench Pressing" had the ability to incline - and were certainly able to handle quite heavy weight amounts. Certainly, the differing thickness torsion box(es) are a good idea, also. 

I remember on the weight benches, there were several ways in which the inclines were supported - and I'll bet you can find some of those old weight benches on Craig's List for very cheap. I also seem to remember some welding equipment in your shop - you could quite likely replicate the idea with some mirror-imaged and paired steel angles.

The loads imposed atop of a router table could wreak havoc on the drawer slide mounted scissor legs. *Rickjb* correctly brought this-up, the connections atop the diagonal legs - where they affix to the slides will be most assuredly wobbly, at best. The terms "wobbly" and "router table" should never be in the same description - it spells disaster, because if you were to change to dirt bikes those fingers will be quite handy!

Personally, I think "nesting torsion boxes" is your best and most cost effective means of accomplishing your task. This also frees-up money and space for a router plate, lift, etc. with no compromises.

Good luck,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

OPG3 said:


> Personally, I think "nesting torsion boxes" is your best and most cost effective means of accomplishing your task. This also frees-up money and space for a router plate, lift, etc. with no compromises.
> 
> Good luck,
> Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


^^^I agree and I believe it's coming to that . My only issue would be cleaning off all the things that seem to accumulate on a work bench in order to add the next layer . And this will be an issue lol 

Mikes system with a screw jack and knobs to re tighten all four corners making the table solid again is about the only other logical step to doing this also . 

The way I wanted to do it before was to use 4 acme screws , one for each corner , and have small chain sprockets attached to them . This way you could have a crank or motor to turn a chain that goes to all 4 . It's a simple solution that would keep the entire table in sync as it was raised or lowered . But although acme threaded rods are readily available , I can't seem to source a sprocket that will go on them . I am going to go to our local machine shop and get there opinions . Maybe they exist , or they can put threads on the inside of a sprocket for me .
Or maybe if I find the right diameter of sprocket I can put a nut on either side of the sprocket and it will be enough to keep them from spinning on the shaft


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

It's a lot of work and I don't know what you gain from all the effort, I make all my tables and trolly's the same height, it's the height of my saw table, I'm not saying that you should not do it, just have a good reason. N


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

neville9999 said:


> It's a lot of work and I don't know what you gain from all the effort, I make all my tables and trolly's the same height, it's the height of my saw table, I'm not saying that you should not do it, just have a good reason. N


Table saw is 34" tall so I felt that would be to low for a router table . Would like 36" and 38" for working on a router table for long durations . 
I'm a dwarf , 5'8" and short arms lol . Being short in height should have helped had my arms not been so short .

I wanted to skydive with a wing suit but the instructor thought I'd go down like a rock with those little Teradactil arms I got


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

A guy could build a table 24" in height for tall project assembly and have one torsion box that was 10" tall for an outfield table , then remove that and have another torsion box 14" tall that has provisions for router lifts . Would probably have to have removable plates in the bottom 24" section in order to compensate for the depth of the routers .A dust extraction system would be a little more complicated underneath , but doable


Geez they put a man on the moon over 40 years ago but I can't come up with a feasible solution to change table heights 

J/K we all know that never happened


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## ETinker (Jun 29, 2010)

Rick - If you aren't allready locked in on a design -- do an internet search of adjustable height workbenches for more ideas. One guy shows used electric lift drafting tables for the base of his carving bench and another for an outfeed support benchtop for his planer, which enables him to easily adjust height to each planer adjustment with foot controls from the drafting table. He states that the tables originally were around $2,500new, and that he can pick them up on Craigs list and ebay for $100.00 or less. They are hefty - he states around 250 lbs.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

E.Tinker said:


> Rick - If you aren't allready locked in on a design -- do an internet search of adjustable height workbenches for more ideas. One guy shows used electric lift drafting tables for the base of his carving bench and another for an outfeed support benchtop for his planer, which enables him to easily adjust height to each planer adjustment with foot controls from the drafting table. He states that the tables originally were around $2,500new, and that he can pick them up on Craigs list and ebay for $100.00 or less. They are hefty - he states around 250 lbs.


Yes that was brought to my attention so I checked on a few sites for Hamilton drafting desk and couldn't find a powered one . But great idea as I seen a video on it . In Canada your not going to find squat though , especially in western Canada


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

neville9999 said:


> It's a lot of work and I don't know what you gain from all the effort, I make all my tables and trolly's the same height, it's the height of my saw table, I'm not saying that you should not do it, just have a good reason. N


You gave me an idea . Raise the table saw to 36 inches! Problem over lol

In all honesty I'm over thinking this , just like I do with everything  
But I do like tinkering and thinking out of the box


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok went to a machine shop today and discussed my idea with there main man , and Troy thought that it was quite easy to implement . Troy swears they make a sprocket that spins on an acme screw and then there's a nut you can tighten it down with , but I'm dammed if I can find it . Going to spend the rest of the year searching for this stuff . They can machine threads into the inside of a sprocket at there facility if necessary but it would be cheaper to source them out


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

> and then there's a nut...


Yep, I heard that! 

Just kidding.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Yep, I heard that!
> 
> Just kidding.


lol , I'm agreeing with you here 100%

This is really tough going threw hours of catalogs trying to figure this out . I'm going to make this much easier and buy 1" threaded rod and find a suitable sprocket that can have threads put in . Or if I can find the same diameter hole in a sprocket I'll just get it tack welded . Would be the cheapest alternative


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I have a motorcycle scissor lift, a smaller floor scissor jack and an atv scissor jack... all rated above 500 lbs. ALL have some movement... the unfortunate and inherent characteristic of parallel scissor action. You can minimize the wobble by eliminating the lower slides and connect directly to those wheels and turning your upper slides 90 deg so they are mounted flat under the table top. Appropriately placed holes will help to insert stop rods when the right height. These are all built into my jacks and they still move.

I suggest a box frame with your cabinet tightly fit over it, a jack or actuator to adjust height and appropriate placed holes to insert pins to rest on.

I get the tinkering point... 

Good luck... Nick


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

RainMan1 said:


> You gave me an idea . Raise the table saw to 36 inches! Problem over lol
> 
> In all honesty I'm over thinking this , just like I do with everything
> But I do like tinkering and thinking out of the box


Rick all I was saying is that it's a lot of work to make it 'height adjustable' so if it was for me then I work out the best height for my body type and just go with that. I have seen some posts where they talk about using roller runners to make a router lift, and I honestly can't see the benefit as you would want the lift to be 'rigid' when the cutter was running, no deflection from the runners, Otis is correct and this is one of the reason why I asked 'why would you go to all the effort to make it height adjustable?' A lot of moving parts and all under a lot of load when its being used, it would be a certainty that you would have do do repairs to the lift as time went by and I would want a good reason before I did that. best of luck N


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I'm at a point of no return as I sourced sprockets and chain and they have been ordered today , plus I bought one inch threaded rods , nuts etc.
I noticed something I'm not happy with already as the nuts are not very tight on the screws . I should have tested that right off the hop dammit . If I spent 100 bucks a pop for acme rod I suspect they would have no noticeable backlash whatsoever . I may be able to work around this and I guess I have no idea if there will be any noticeable movement in the table till it's built.
I could add cabinet sliders to the wall inside to help out . But I think it's going to be a wash .
Live and learn I guess 
Btw I'm only going to raise this table eight inches up and down , so it's not like there's going to be all that thread that you see here to manage


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I thought about you today, Rick. I was in our local Harbor Freight and they had three transmission jacks. Small, med and large. 

Here's a couple. I didn't take a picture of the big one. I threw down my cap for reference.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> I thought about you today, Rick. I was in our local Harbor Freight and they had three transmission jacks. Small, med and large.
> 
> Here's a couple. I didn't take a picture of the big one. I threw down my cap for reference.


Marcia Marcia Marcia ! 
Ya you've got all the good stuff down there , up here we haven't got jack ( pun intended ).

Mike after giving it more thought it would be pretty easy to implement those knobs as you've done . That way when I'm happy with the position I can lock it down so there's zero movement . Not a big deal just a little extra work . I showed those knobs you are using to the man at Home Depot and they had them but there out , so they must be popular . Christ I may as well be living in Timbucktoo for 
as much as you can find in this town


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> Marcia Marcia Marcia !
> Ya you've got all the good stuff down there , up here we haven't got jack ( pun intended ).
> 
> Mike after giving it more thought it would be pretty easy to implement those knobs as you've done . That way when I'm happy with the position I can lock it down so there's zero movement . Not a big deal just a little extra work . I showed those knobs you are using to the man at Home Depot and they had them but there out , so they must be popular . Christ I may as well be living in Timbucktoo for
> as much as you can find in this town


Rick, those knobs are 3/8-16 made by Woodriver, sold through Woodcraft. That's where I got them. 
Mike


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Rick, those knobs are 3/8-16 made by Woodriver, sold through Woodcraft. That's where I got them.
> Mike


Thanks Mike . 

I haven't heard of wood river before as it may be a states store . We do have a Lee Valley in Canada which has quite a comprehensive list of parts . I will try to find them online and may have to get you see if I'm on the right track . The bigger the knob the better I figure. The one that was out of stock at Home Depot looked smaller than the ones you used . 
I think you have a great idea with those knobs though . There's probably other ways to lock the table down but yours is the easiest to execute . 
I see on the jack bench that he uses pipe clamps I think to lock it down . I've never heard of them before


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is a link to the knobs.
Buy Knob, Five Star with Through Hole, 3/8"-16 Insert at Woodcraft.com


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

MT Stringer said:


> Here is a link to the knobs.
> Buy Knob, Five Star with Through Hole, 3/8"-16 Insert at Woodcraft.com


^^Thanks again .

Easy to implement and the table will be solid as a rock


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

*(use torsion boxes)...*

Hey Rick, I have a machine shop where we manufacture transmissions - that's about all I can say - because they're for some of my patents that are pending. We use ACME bolts every day - we also use them to drive things via sprockets, chains, rack and pinions, bla, bla, bla. 

I hate to "bust your bubble" - but if you go with the acme bolts, nuts and sprockets...here is what you will soon learn: There are basically two simple reasons for threaded rods, bolts, screws, whatever you wish to call them ---> Fastening and Linear Motion. ACME bolts are pitiful FASTENERS, but are great for LINEAR MOTION. Coarse thread (UNC) and Fine Thread (UNF) are GREAT FASTENERS and they are good for LINEAR MOTION, albeit - comparatively slow. TPI isn't the only factor in determining the linear motion capacity of TRUE ACME BOLTS, because these can have MULTIPLE STARTS...

Where you will have a problem with what I understand to be your "now intended direction" is CHAIN TENSION. Due to the span distance between your sprockets, there will be need for chain tensioners - especially when the chain's natural deflective direction is transverse versus the longitudinal direction of tension. My company has spent a lot of "everything spendable" learning these things and how they apply to the unique transmissions for which they are being used on. It would have been much simpler if some of the parts I needed were "off the shelf", but they are not available - ANYWHERE at ANY COST. I've spent years (with several experts in their fields) trying to source some of the parts needed. We finally got to the point of chasing-down the people that manufacture equipment to make "the most similar" parts we could locate. The answer I kept getting was, "Mr Guillebeau - Your design is a physical impossibility with the dimensions and material specifications that you have here. Quite simply, it cannot be made!" GUESS WHAT? I think "outside of the box" much more than most "open-minded people", therefore; we are now making these "impossible parts" everyday - exactly to my dimensions and specifications. My process, which was at first quite tedious; is now mainly automated in our machine shop. I make no statement about other "impossible products", but we will quite likely keep this one as a "trade secret".

Typically if one chooses to use ACME bolts, sprockets are attached via a "Woodruff Key" rather than nuts - because since ACME bolts really aren't the best choice for fasteners, the ACME nuts are not designed to be snug! If the nuts were snug, they would thereby introduce friction, which is to be avoided in linear motion.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Otis for your input.
Yes I've created a monster and it may be a wash . I've had it with acme screws as there just to hard to source the correct ones here , and they would have been great for raising the table IMO as that is what I want them for , linear motion . And your right and you have me concerned as let's face it the bolts I bought are for just that , securing something . 

Yes I've anticipated the long chain so I ordered 5 sprockets as one is going to act as a tensioner . Like I say this may be a train wreck but I need to know if I can build it . 
If something bothers me about it when it's done , well lesson learned and I'll burn it .Well I can reuse the top for the next static one


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