# Advice on getting tap set, please



## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi there - It's a never-ending story: to make a simple jig I need a shop full of tools...

Anyway, I think a decent tap set would be in order, but I have no clue what to get. I think I know that I don't want one of those comprehensive sets with sizes I may well never use. I also don't think I will cut bolts any time soon, so I'd rather spend my money on a basic tap set (or tap/drill set) for the moment.

Are there any such sets with the most common 5-6 sizes (around 1/4-20, 5/16-18, and a couple smaller and larger sizes) that are decent and don't cost an arm and a leg? 

I looked around at all the usual places but cant judge what's good and what's not.

Thanks so much in advance. Best - MM


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mischa...

I've used the Sears craftsman taps and dies for 35 years. they can be bought in individual sizes or in small to large sets. Price point is fair. I've had no complaints with em...


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I started out many moons ago with a comprehensive albeit very cheap tap and die set which did the job, just about, but as I found which I was using more than once, I would go out and buy top quality replacements. The result of this approach is that there are still a few of the originals but all the common ones are quality ones. It's important to use a cutting compound when using taps or dies, here in Australia I use "Trefolex"


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI xvimbi

That's a hard one,if it's a one now and then i would suggest one of the sets below...it's like a a good drill index,if you don't have the right size you can use it..but you want both Mertic and SAE in the set,,we now have both to deal with now days.. 
I have 6 sets, from the very small (0-80) to the very big ( 1 1/2 ) you can't have to many taps and dies..


Harbor Freight Tools

=========



xvimbi said:


> Hi there - It's a never-ending story: to make a simple jig I need a shop full of tools...
> 
> Anyway, I think a decent tap set would be in order, but I have no clue what to get. I think I know that I don't want one of those comprehensive sets with sizes I may well never use. I also don't think I will cut bolts any time soon, so I'd rather spend my money on a basic tap set (or tap/drill set) for the moment.
> 
> ...


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

Make sure you get HSS taps and dies. Buy a good tap holder, either a straight bar or a t-handle. Get a set of 3 taps for each thread size, don't skimp. Get a matching die for each. they are great for cleaning damaged treads.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Like many, I suppose, a T&D set is on my wish list. What guidelines do I use in matching a set of taps / dies to the kinds / hardness of steel thay can cut? For example, for skiis, if I were to make them out of drill rod and want to cut threads for standard nuts I can choose from many steels. Amongst them are O2, D2, A2, S7 and many more. 

How do I select a die set that will hold up to such materials, or must they be machined in a lathe?

The last thing I need is to buy some hard stock and dies and have the rod chew up the die teeth like an old Saturday cartoon!


----------



## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I think that i would go to sears, and pick up a set for around $80.00. You will have a nice set that will last a long time. Then if you ever need an extra size, about $6. , $7 will give you a few extra ,or a special size. You may never need any thing else for that. You can go to Radio Shack and pick up every small size, if you need it. Any auto parts, or hardware store will have kits or individual sizes


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i think a tap and die set is something used on a limited basis. if you do use it pretty often i would consider spending more on it. mine is a more inexpensive set. i am cheap and i dont use them that often.


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I'v had a set of T&D from sears for 20yrs now, used them quite a bit. Never had any issues with them. Then again, I did get their best set at the time. Just make sure to use thread cutting oil and clean them while making or cleaning threads.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

Real GOOD tap and die sets are not cheap..a good set will cost about 400.oo to 500.oo if not more,,,all tap and die sets are made with HSS the norm..like any steel cutting tool 
You will not use any thing bigger than 1/2" the norm in the wood shop , most buy the small set and it will sever you well for a long time...

You can jump on the SNAP-ON-TRUCK and pay over 100.oo for a small set or the same thing at CRAFTSMAN (Sears) I have a SNAP-ON set and a set from ACE hardware and they are the same one in a red box and one in a green  but I will say the one from ACE is better,I like many use the best and I always pull out the snap-on SET because in mind I think it's better but the ACE set is just as good but it's newer because I always pull of the red box...


they both have a OC dept.checking the items but if you look at them real hard they are all the same..HSS ...I would guess you will wipe out one or two in the next 10 years but that's true for drill bits also (steel cutting tool )no one that I know about backs them up..(free replacement ) they just give up from time to time,,the norm is user error...just like a drill bit...

But this just my 2 cents 

=




BigJimAK said:


> Like many, I suppose, a T&D set is on my wish list. What guidelines do I use in matching a set of taps / dies to the kinds / hardness of steel thay can cut? For example, for skiis, if I were to make them out of drill rod and want to cut threads for standard nuts I can choose from many steels. Amongst them are O2, D2, A2, S7 and many more.
> 
> How do I select a die set that will hold up to such materials, or must they be machined in a lathe?
> 
> The last thing I need is to buy some hard stock and dies and have the rod chew up the die teeth like an old Saturday cartoon!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jim, even engineers should once in a while forget pure theory and listen to the people with practical experience! Using quality Australian made Sutton and,P & N taps and dies,I've never had a problem making male or female threads, but as I stated in my last post, a good cutting compound is essential. I doubt that any hobbyist, and that's what we are, asks for a specific alloy when buying metal, it's normally a case of bright mild steel, brass, stainless steel etc. In my humble opinion, anyone asking for a particular alloy has engineering experience and the appropriate tools to cope with that material.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

harrysin said:


> Jim, even engineers should once in a while forget pure theory and listen to the people with practical experience! Using quality Australian made Sutton and,P & N taps and dies,I've never had a problem making male or female threads, but as I stated in my last post, a good cutting compound is essential. I doubt that any hobbyist, and that's what we are, asks for a specific alloy when buying metal, it's normally a case of bright mild steel, brass, stainless steel etc. In my humble opinion, anyone asking for a particular alloy has engineering experience and the appropriate tools to cope with that material.



hi Harry,

great post. you have always had a gift for stating the facts in such an eloqeunt manner.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thank you Levon, but I did warn Jim by email that I was returning with my big wooden spoon and, because he is now a moderator as well as a friend, I expect him to look the other way when things get heated!


----------



## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thanks for all the advice so far. 

I am a strong believer in quality goods, but I'm torn about what to get in the end, so for now, I got myself rather cheap taps in the two sizes I currently need. I stumbled over them at TrueValue. They are Mibro 'Master Mechanic'. Normally I would run, but this time I thought 'Oh, what the heck'. It's just for drilling into wood.

Time will tell if they'll hold up reasonably well.

Thanks again. MM


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

> Normally I would run, but this time I thought 'Oh, what the heck'. It's just for drilling into wood.


In this case, I suggest looking at this: Woodboring Tools & Accessories - Wood Threading Kits

These can be found in many woodworking stores.


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I have a set of Beall Taps for threading wood.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

cutting wood threads is one of the fun jobs in the shop 

=======


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Thank you for the info, BJ!


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

harrysin said:


> Thank you Levon, but I did warn Jim by email that I was returning with my big wooden spoon and, because he is now a moderator as well as a friend, I expect him to look the other way when things get heated!


Yes you did Harry.. and I welcome that spoon.  I asked to avoid buying material and a cutter, getting home and having the material eat the cutter. Your message on using a good T+D cutting compound is heard and understood.

The practical experience of the people here is the very reason I asked the question here in the first place.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Jim, regarding material for ski rods, I've said many times that, because controlling the skis from the end cheeks places no downward pressure on the router, the depth of cut will remain constant even using small diameter mild steel rods, however, obviously, the bigger the diameter, the better. Whenever I choose a new car, I consider the one that attracts me first by it's appearance, likewise, to my eyes at least, smooth bright mild steel rods threaded at the ends LOOKS nicer even if no more efficient than threaded rods.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, is there no end to your ingenuity, that lamp is VERY clever.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

. but if you want both Metric and SAE in the set,,we now have both to deal with now days.

Stop moaning Bob, we still use: BA (British Association), Whitworth, SAE AND metric!


----------



## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I wish this country would get off its ass and convert to metric.
Totally stupid that we're the only ones using imperial.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Goodonyer Mike, perhaps members, particularly a certain gent. who goes as BJ will listen to you, he certainly has never listened to me!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys


It's no big deal for me, I just get the tap and die set out and re-thread them to imperial many metric bolts are almost the same size..like 1/4-20 and 6mm  many times I'm out of the right size it metric or SAE it's no big deal to change them over..at one time I repaired bikes and the bikes from the UK would drive me nuts...they should get with it..
If I had a easy way to rework the hex size I would be a happy camper...sometimes I just put in a slot in the head and be done with it..




=======




harrysin said:


> Goodonyer Mike, perhaps members, particularly a certain gent. who goes as BJ will listen to you, he certainly has never listened to me!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

Thanks..some scrap stock is not fire wood and I'm a cheap SOB ... 

===



harrysin said:


> Bj, is there no end to your ingenuity, that lamp is VERY clever.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"I'm a cheap SOB "

Anyone who spends the sort of money that you have Bob over the years cannot be called a cheap SOB, it just makes you feel better saying it!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Harry

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha LOL

Very true hahahahahahaha

=======



harrysin said:


> "I'm a cheap SOB "
> 
> Anyone who spends the sort of money that you have Bob over the years cannot be called a cheap SOB, it just makes you feel better saying it!


----------



## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

harrysin said:


> . but if you want both Metric and SAE in the set,,we now have both to deal with now days.
> 
> Stop moaning Bob, we still use: BA (British Association), Whitworth, SAE AND metric!


Plus BSP, the 26TPI series, some of which are in the cycle thread series and the little watchmaking ones..... 

The pipe clamps use BSP.

Cheers

Peter


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Harry,

Your post is 100% accurate, given that you do not slide the router on the rods. In my case, one use I have for them is as a wide-panel planer. In order to plane a wide glue-up (when I get to my workbench it will be 30-36" wide) I'd need rods 6' long. This would be very unwieldly.

I was once given a 46" wide section of reclaimed bowling alley end. The front side was fairly level but had the plastic inserts where the pins set and on the back side the ~1" boards differed by about 3/8" in how far they stuck out. I knew this laminated hard maple had served in a local bowling alley for >20 years, so was very well seasoned.

I reasonable results leveling the back (my new top) using a router. The panel was about 2-1/2" thick, so I screwed 2 scraps of construction lumber, making 3" thick guides for rails, placing one on each side of the workpiece. I then routed a slot in a 2x8 and laid it across the rails. Sliding the router back and forth across the wood and slowly moving the cross-piece the lenght of the board, a 1" bit did a pretty-fair job of planing. I've used skiis to perform this function on my 24" wide pieces with a 36" rods, but it required sliding the router along the all-thread. It worked quite well but I was seeking something even more ridgid for my (future) workbench.

Harry, you and BJ are two of the most creative people I know. Is there a better way, short of a jointer plane (I'd like to use a router)? Perhaps I'm "over-engineering" this?

I make no apology for being an engineer and applying my engineering training to problem-solving. For me, engineering isn't just a profession, it's what I am. To me, part of being a good engineer is looking for the simplest approach solution and I know that my first thoughts rarely align with the KISS principle, though I wish they would. That's the reason I come here and why I so enjoy posts by members like BJ and yourself (amongst others); your knowledge and experience help me learn not only much easier and safer ways to accomplish tasks, its increasing my KISS knowledge and way of thinking.


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

My pet peeve is a single piece of equipment that uses both metric and SAE. It's easy enough to tell a 7/16" from 1/2" but 6mm vs 1/2"?? GAK! Either one, but not both!!


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

Just my 2 cents 

Sometimes it's best to job stuff out,,many wood shops/lumber mills/lumber yards have the big machines and will do it for a small price the norm..
It's nice to do all the work but in the long long it's best to just job it out..

=======



BigJimAK said:


> Harry,
> 
> Your post is 100% accurate, given that you do not slide the router on the rods. In my case, one use I have for them is as a wide-panel planer. In order to plane a wide glue-up (when I get to my workbench it will be 30-36" wide) I'd need rods 6' long. This would be very unwieldly.
> 
> ...


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> Just my 2 cents
> 
> ...


That's good advice, Bob.. and you're probably right... 

I don't normally think this way, not because I necessarily want to do it, but because shop rates are so high here. For example, I recently replaced the bearings in my bandsaw. I was able to remove and replace the lower one, but the upper required pressing out and in. The shop rate for that was $160/hr with a half-hour minimum. That's without any materials. Typical car repair shop rates are $90 - $110/hr. 

For this though, I'd be better off to work some kind of a deal with one of the cabinetmakers in our local WW club.. I'll check into it as I get closer to needing the service.

Thanks for helping me keep it simple.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

The car repair rates are about the same here, the Boss's car would not pass the inspector so it needs to be repaired and I didn't want to do it  BUT the shop wanted 1800.oo to replace two cat.'s. at 500.oo dollars each plus labor..and I said no way...so I have two of them coming from CD. for 310.oo bucks total and I can do the labor it's just bolts and nuts..and I'm a old gear head..

Discount Catalytic Converters - Top Quality Catalytic Converters at pocket-friendly prices
==========



BigJimAK said:


> That's good advice, Bob.. and you're probably right...
> 
> I don't normally think this way, not because I necessarily want to do it, but because shop rates are so high here. For example, I recently replaced the bearings in my bandsaw. I was able to remove and replace the lower one, but the upper required pressing out and in. The shop rate for that was $160/hr with a half-hour minimum. That's without any materials. Typical car repair shop rates are $90 - $110/hr.
> 
> ...


----------



## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

BJ.. Your background is from the tool and die "brand" of gearhead, isn't it???

That's a *huge* savings.. it seems to me that a good case could be made to the boss for the "shops" portion of the difference (to equip the shop, of course!), eh? :jester:


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

BigJimAK said:


> Harry,
> 
> Your post is 100% accurate, given that you do not slide the router on the rods. In my case, one use I have for them is as a wide-panel planer. In order to plane a wide glue-up (when I get to my workbench it will be 30-36" wide) I'd need rods 6' long. This would be very unwieldly.
> 
> ...


But I DO slide the router along the rods Jim, as shown in these two shots, otherwise I'd need a very large bench to ensure that the skis didn't drop off the edge!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

BigJimAK said:


> My pet peeve is a single piece of equipment that uses both metric and SAE. It's easy enough to tell a 7/16" from 1/2" but 6mm vs 1/2"?? GAK! Either one, but not both!!


That reminds me of my days as a field TV technician, I used to get hot under the collar when removing a set's back cover when the "tradesman" before me had used a mixture of Philips, slotted and hex headed screws.


----------

