# If you had to buy one...



## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

After living with my bottom of the line Craftsman router with the mini table with the wings that won't sit flush, I'm finally taking the plunge on a real router system. I've decided on the Incra LS SuperSystem as well as the PRL V2 for my lift. Where I'm undecided is my router. I had initially settled on the PC 7518, but then heard good reviews on the Bosch 1617 (with the plunge router kit). Because I don't have a plunge router, this seems to be a better option for me. 

Is this a reasonable choice? Once the router is mounted in the lift is it easy enough to remove if I have to use it as a plunge router? Is the 7518 that much better? Have I asked enough questions?

Thanks in advance.


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## Tom76 (Aug 28, 2009)

stringman said:


> After living with my bottom of the line Craftsman router with the mini table with the wings that won't sit flush, I'm finally taking the plunge on a real router system. I've decided on the Incra LS SuperSystem as well as the PRL V2 for my lift. Where I'm undecided is my router. I had initially settled on the PC 7518, but then heard good reviews on the Bosch 1617 (with the plunge router kit). Because I don't have a plunge router, this seems to be a better option for me.
> 
> Is this a reasonable choice? Once the router is mounted in the lift is it easy enough to remove if I have to use it as a plunge router? Is the 7518 that much better? Have I asked enough questions?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Jim Welcome to the forum; there are many here who can assist you getting what you want to do with a router. Just a reminder; there is more that can be achieved when the router is held in the plunge mode, with the aid of template guides. Check out the material below.
Tom
(Template Tom)


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Hi Jim,
The 7518 is a real work horse and one heavy beast. If you plan on working it hard and long, the variable speed, soft start 7518 (motor only) is your best choice for the table. Install it and don't even think of taking it out to do hand held work. Do yourself a favor and get a set of off set or "bent" wrenches, too. Makes bit changing so much easier.
Then I'd get a smaller plunge router for hand held work. 
I'm an old guy so, I like the idea of a table mounted or foot actuated switch for the table router. It gets really unhandy to reach under the table to turn the router on/off. 
Gene


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey there Jim...

excellent choices if I do say so myself *S*. I have the LS with a PRLv2 myself. and love it!!! My choice of routers was the big Milwaukee. But my router is dedicated to the table so I dont' remove it at all. I will say just like the PC 7518 the Milwaukee is a workhorse!!
The PC is the standard by which most big routers are measured, but alot of the other guys are coming out with bigger units that are rating and performing well. I can tell ya the Bosch has reviewed well and is well spoken of in here...good luck picking one out S*

as for removing the router from the lift.. not a problem!!!


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey there Jim...
> 
> I have the LS with a PRLv2 myself. and love it!!! My choice of routers was the big Milwaukee. But my router is dedicated to the table so I dont' remove it at all.


Plus one on the Milwaukee 5625-20, the PRL V2, and the Incra LS system Bill.

Jim,

What table are you considering or are you going to build one yourself?


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I have the PC 7518 in a Bench dog lift, The 7518 is a beast with power to spare. 

Here's the thing, while the motor certainly can be removed, it is a pain to get it right and then days, a week/s or month later yank it out for a project. A couple times a year isn't so bad but if you're using it off and on for whatever the removal process will quickly get old. 

I'd suggest you pick the 1617 or an outright plunge, the PC 7539 is a killer dedicated plunge. Mount it under the table and use it till you can afford a dedicated router motor.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have been using the Bosch 1617 system for about 4 or 5 years now and have been incredibly happy with its performance. I almost bought the equivalent PC system when I was talked out of that and into the Bosch. I have been very satisfied!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mike...

Mom never told me I had a twin....*S*


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Hahaha!


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## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

timbertailor said:


> Plus one on the Milwaukee 5625-20, the PRL V2, and the Incra LS system Bill.
> 
> Jim,
> 
> What table are you considering or are you going to build one yourself?


Depending upon which PRL V2 (the one from Incra directly or the one from Woodpecker) I was planning on getting the tabletop from either place there and building the cabinet myself.


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## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

Speaking of lifts, the comments I was reading on the PRL V2 from Woodpecker said that there were issues getting the plastic rings flush. Those comments were a while ago and was wondering if there are still issues. The Incra version has the MagnaLOCK rings.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

stringman said:


> Speaking of lifts, the comments I was reading on the PRL V2 from Woodpecker said that there were issues getting the plastic rings flush. Those comments were a while ago and was wondering if there are still issues. The Incra version has the MagnaLOCK rings.


I don't know. I do not own the extra molded insert rings. I just have the aluminum ones that came with the lift. I have no issues with the ones that came with the lift.

I don't see the supplemental set in aluminum on their site but did see it listed in their catalog. That was the direction I was headed once I have the extra cash.

I chose the Woodpecker because I use to have a PC router that worked. The Woodpecker PRL V2 supports the old style PC guide bushings.

I think that is the only real difference in the two offered.

I too bought the table from Woodpecker. More because I was in the middle of a project and did not have time to build my own. It is a nice piece and it is predrilled and made ready for the lift and the Incra Fence systems. I like the extra real estate. It has really come in handy on this last project.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

stringman said:


> Speaking of lifts, the comments I was reading on the PRL V2 from Woodpecker said that there were issues getting the plastic rings flush. Those comments were a while ago and was wondering if there are still issues. The Incra version has the MagnaLOCK rings.



Jim,,, can't say I was aware of any problems with the plastic rings. I have the metal rings from Incra...and with their lift, there is 4 magnetic tabs that are adjustable up or down to bring the rings flush. A very handy lil feature. The only problem as far as rings go that I've had is that the rings "tarnished" almost right out of the box..nothing more than a cosmetic issue, but when you tie up that kinda money in a product, you'd expect more. Still I'd do it again in a heart beat. I also have a woodpecker tabletop. I ordered a custom sized top from them. They were great to work with, excellent communications and the top came in perfectly. Again, I could not have been more pleased. I could have made my own, just didn't want to be bothered...here's a link to my thread that may give you an idea or two.. pics start on page 7 or 9, something like that...

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/14019-soft-start-variable-speed-table-setup.html


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jim... 

I should say that the only real complaint I have with the PRLv2 is the thumb wheel adjuster. There is a small amount of slop (and by small I mean only a couple of thousandths) when adjusting the lift up or down by the wheel. After you use it for a while, you get used to the feel of when the wheel actually engages the lift and you can go from there. I dont' know if Brad has had the same issue or not?? You'll also need to keep in mind the center reference point for the adjuster since there is only a limited amount of travel up or down you can make off of the wheel. I've found this feature to be exceptionally handy.


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## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Jim,,, can't say I was aware of any problems with the plastic rings. I have the metal rings from Incra...and with their lift, there is 4 magnetic tabs that are adjustable up or down to bring the rings flush. A very handy lil feature. The only problem as far as rings go that I've had is that the rings "tarnished" almost right out of the box..nothing more than a cosmetic issue, but when you tie up that kinda money in a product, you'd expect more. Still I'd do it again in a heart beat. I also have a woodpecker tabletop. I ordered a custom sized top from them. They were great to work with, excellent communications and the top came in perfectly. Again, I could not have been more pleased. I could have made my own, just didn't want to be bothered...here's a link to my thread that may give you an idea or two.. pics start on page 7 or 9, something like that...


Bill,

Nice job on the table. That sure was an interesting thread. Not sure I have the guts to go for the remote control speed, but I will be bringing the power switch to the outside. You have the Incra positioner mounted on a board instead of directly on the table - I assume for quick removal. Did you need to make any adjustments to connect to the fence? I also assume that you have the threads built into the table so you don't need to access from underneath. Thanks for all of your help.

Jim


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jim...

The remote speed and power was a real hassel in the beginning, trust me on that one *L*. Once the bugs worked themselves out, she's running like a champ. As a matter of fact, I was in Rockler WW last week and they actually had what appeared to be a "new" version of the 5625-26. Which is a factory version of my setup. Something I could not find, no matter how hard I looked when I was building my rig. Correctomundo on the mounting setup. I use my tabletop for assembly surface as well. Especially for my pocket hole joinery. so I set it up that i can remove the Incra with just 4 hold downs. threads are recessed into the tabletop so as to be out of the way. I measured the OE base, milled a piece of maple to the right thickness and mounted the carriage to that. NO need to do anything with the fence.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

+1 on the Incra rings. I've got them in my Incra/Jessem Mast-R-Lift and they're great! 



TwoSkies57 said:


> Jim,,, can't say I was aware of any problems with the plastic rings. I have the metal rings from Incra...and with their lift, there is 4 magnetic tabs that are adjustable up or down to bring the rings flush. A very handy lil feature. The only problem as far as rings go that I've had is that the rings "tarnished" almost right out of the box..nothing more than a cosmetic issue, but when you tie up that kinda money in a product, you'd expect more. Still I'd do it again in a heart beat. I also have a woodpecker tabletop. I ordered a custom sized top from them. They were great to work with, excellent communications and the top came in perfectly. Again, I could not have been more pleased. I could have made my own, just didn't want to be bothered...here's a link to my thread that may give you an idea or two.. pics start on page 7 or 9, something like that...
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/14019-soft-start-variable-speed-table-setup.html


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I really like the fact that the lil magnets can be raised or lowered to bring the rings flush to the plate!!!! I'm not sure if this can be accomplished with any of the other insert options??


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I really like the fact that the lil magnets can be raised or lowered to bring the rings flush to the plate!!!! I'm not sure if this can be accomplished with any of the other insert options??


I was contemplating a new table saw with a router in one wing. I will keep the 5625-26 part number in mind. I could just move my current router to the table and use the 26 in my current table.

As far as noticing any drift, I have not. Maybe I just got lucky or mine was calibrated from Woodpecker better. No signs of any slack. The brake seems to be adjusted perfect from the factory too.

Once I start on the drawers and doors of my current project, I should have a much better idea of the setups merits and limitations. I will try to remember to provide feedback then.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Brad... 

Im a big fan of the TS/RT combo's. Especially when shop space is at a premium. When I was first considering what to do about a RT table. I looked long and hard at adding onto my TS. Just one big problem. A 6" basement pole, anchored into the floor and welded to
an I beam. *L*and right in the middle of my basement shop. I'd really like to see how well a workbench, outfeed table, router table and cabinetsaw would work as a combo. build. 

The amount of slop I have with my PRL is hardly worth noting. I might have to move the thumbwheel maybe 15/20 degrees before it engages. Like you, the brake works just fine. Just a lil tweak with the allen key and she locks down perfectly.


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## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

I made all of my purchases this weekend. Ended up picking the PC7518, the Woodpecker 27x43 offset table, the Incra LS SuperSystem 17", and the Incra branded PRLV2 with the magnetic rings. Thanks for all of your advice, it went a long way to making the decision. I was planning on getting the Milwaukee 5625, but ended up getting the PC7518 at the Woodworking show for 285 (with the base).

Now it's time to plan out the cabinet and wait for the equipment to show up. I don't have a dust collection system, just a shop vac. Would the shop vac generate enough to work both the fence and a port for the router cabinet or will I need to convince my wife that a dust collection system will need to be the next addition?


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

stringman said:


> I made all of my purchases this weekend. Ended up picking the PC7518, the Woodpecker 27x43 offset table, the Incra LS SuperSystem 17", and the Incra branded PRLV2 with the magnetic rings. Thanks for all of your advice, it went a long way to making the decision. I was planning on getting the Milwaukee 5625, but ended up getting the PC7518 at the Woodworking show for 285 (with the base).
> 
> Now it's time to plan out the cabinet and wait for the equipment to show up. I don't have a dust collection system, just a shop vac. Would the shop vac generate enough to work both the fence and a port for the router cabinet or will I need to convince my wife that a dust collection system will need to be the next addition?


Hi Jim - Congratulations on your aquisitions:dance3:

I use a 200 CFM to collect from the router base (table mounted but using router dust collector) and the fence. System does a pretty fair job but I consider it marginal. I am also collecting a lions share of the dust right at the bit, not after it goes very far. I think you would be better off and a lot happier with a dedicated system. Harbor Freight has one available for not much more than a large shop-vac. I'm sure someone will be along with a link for it pretty soon.
Have fun with your new STUFF


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

hey Jim...

got the 17 myself, as well as the PRLv2 w/mag rings. just a super setup!! Take a few minute to put a good coat of wax on the rings...mine tarnished up in less than a week. 
I've got the mil. 5625, but it would have been hard to pass up the deal you got on the PC..Both are good pieces of equipment. 

Fire that puppy up and start making some sawdust, and in no time at all, the wife will be telling YOU, that you need a DC system!!!!

I can run a shopvac on mine with dedicated ports. Off the fence, a nice sized shopvac will do just fine, but off the cabinet and fence, no so sure.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Congratulations, Jim... You're going to love that setup!!


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

jschaben said:


> Hi Jim - Congratulations on your aquisitions:dance3:
> 
> I use a 200 CFM to collect from the router base (table mounted but using router dust collector) and the fence. System does a pretty fair job but I consider it marginal. I am also collecting a lions share of the dust right at the bit, not after it goes very far. I think you would be better off and a lot happier with a dedicated system. Harbor Freight has one available for not much more than a large shop-vac. I'm sure someone will be along with a link for it pretty soon.
> Have fun with your new STUFF


- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

stringman said:


> I made all of my purchases this weekend. Ended up picking the PC7518, the Woodpecker 27x43 offset table, the Incra LS SuperSystem 17", and the Incra branded PRLV2 with the magnetic rings. Thanks for all of your advice, it went a long way to making the decision. I was planning on getting the Milwaukee 5625, but ended up getting the PC7518 at the Woodworking show for 285 (with the base).
> 
> Now it's time to plan out the cabinet and wait for the equipment to show up. I don't have a dust collection system, just a shop vac. Would the shop vac generate enough to work both the fence and a port for the router cabinet or will I need to convince my wife that a dust collection system will need to be the next addition?


I have a very similar system too. I am surprised you went with the magnetic rings with a PC. The Woodpecker version supports the PC guide bushings.

The extra real estate will also be very welcome. That is a nice size table.

Congratulations!!!


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## Paul Stroik (Apr 9, 2006)

Brad, I'm curious here. In what situations would one be able to use guide bushings while the router is in the table. I have the WP PRL-V2 version rings and wondered about that while looking it over - but didn't bother to ask. Now, after seeing your comment thought now would be a good time for some education on that very issue.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Paul Stroik said:


> Brad, I'm curious here. In what situations would one be able to use guide bushings while the router is in the table. I have the WP PRL-V2 version rings and wondered about that while looking it over - but didn't bother to ask. Now, after seeing your comment thought now would be a good time for some education on that very issue.


Guide bushings are usually used freehand, as you alluded to. If you do not plan to use guide bushings free hand than you are not missing out on much. And, if you use bits with bearings, than it is even less significant.

But, with the right router and bushings, there are instances when they come in handy. If you are going to use templates and don't have a slew of bearing bits, then guide bushings can be very useful.

Some people are not comfortable using templates blind, but I really do not have a problem with it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it gives you more options.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Brad

Using the guide bushings on the router table is a real plus 
That's why many router tables plates have the hole in the center for them..

just one of many that come that way  no bearing or fence needed.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=94331
=========


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## stringman (Feb 4, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> hey Jim...
> 
> Fire that puppy up and start making some sawdust, and in no time at all, the wife will be telling YOU, that you need a DC system!!!!
> 
> I can run a shopvac on mine with dedicated ports. Off the fence, a nice sized shopvac will do just fine, but off the cabinet and fence, no so sure.


Bill - Are you saying that the ShopVac will do either, but not both effectively? Would the WonderFence be the primary collector for edge routing and the under table port be for the non-edging work? I am leaning towards picking up that DC from Harbor Freight, I just wanted to understand better.

When I design the dust collection under the table, I'm planning on putting a shelf under the router (similar to yours) and having a hole in the bottom and run the tubing through an elbow out the back as I'm not putting storage under the router itself, just drawers on either side. Is there an advantage to going straight out the back versus putting an elbow in. I was figuring that the dust collection would be in a better position, but the elbow may restrict the flow more. 

Also it looks like on the back of your table you have a thin piece of wood where you mount your outlet port. I had planned to just bolt a port directly onto the back of the 3/4" plywood.

Thanks as usual for your advice.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

stringman said:


> Bill - Are you saying that the ShopVac will do either, but not both effectively? Would the WonderFence be the primary collector for edge routing and the under table port be for the non-edging work? I am leaning towards picking up that DC from Harbor Freight, I just wanted to understand better.
> 
> When I design the dust collection under the table, I'm planning on putting a shelf under the router (similar to yours) and having a hole in the bottom and run the tubing through an elbow out the back as I'm not putting storage under the router itself, just drawers on either side. Is there an advantage to going straight out the back versus putting an elbow in. I was figuring that the dust collection would be in a better position, but the elbow may restrict the flow more.
> 
> ...


I am sure most of you have run across this site but I thought it would be a good read for those who have not. It discusses dust collection and why most systems are VERY inadequate.

I would read this information before investing in a dust collection system. It may change your mind about the dangers and hazards of believing your system is protecting you.

The original Cyclone

I believe Bill to be sincere and honest. His systems are worth a look. They are not cheap but neither is health care!!!!!!


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## rodgerlstewart (Feb 25, 2010)

*Triton MOF001KC router for table*

I am planning to build Norm Abram's router table but need advice for a router suitable for this first class table. I read a review in Finewoodworking on the Triton MOF001KC that suggested it was the best (also reviewed Bosch 1617EVS, Freud FT1700VCEK, and Porter Cable 891) with only the caveat that the max base diameter is 3 1/8 inches.

Any feedback on the Triton? Any other suggested routers? Is a 3 1/8 in opening a problem.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

rodgerlstewart said:


> I am planning to build Norm Abram's router table but need advice for a router suitable for this first class table. I read a review in Finewoodworking on the Triton MOF001KC that suggested it was the best (also reviewed Bosch 1617EVS, Freud FT1700VCEK, and Porter Cable 891) with only the caveat that the max base diameter is 3 1/8 inches.
> 
> Any feedback on the Triton? Any other suggested routers? Is a 3 1/8 in opening a problem.


I am old school where fixed routers rule the table router world. I and others still feel fixed routers are the safer solution for a table. Not many options if you agree. Either the Milwaukee 5625-20 or the Porter Cable 7518.

If you want a plunge router for your table, then I am sure others will be happy to make a suggestion.

My only other advice, think this all the way through. It can affect the plate you use, the guide bushings, the table you build/buy, etc. Then buy your equipment after you have it all sorted.

Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.


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