# Dust Extraction - Where to start?



## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi, Im pretty new to woodworking in general, but I can see it being a serious hobby for me.

Currently I have no dust extraction, but now that I have had a bit of a read around this forum the dangers of dust have become apparent and Im now paranoid the microscopic dust is planning my demise!

my "shop" is a generously sized garage, its primarily used for storage, but its slowly becoming just a woodworking area.

I dont really have the money spend on some huge industrial system, so I would like to start small and build up as my interest grows.

If I got a good shop vac and an air filtration unit would this suffice for the meantime? Can anyone recommend any products to me (in the uk)? 

Any input welcome.

Cheers
Neil


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

Is this the sort of thing?

record power DX4000:
* 106 litres/second
* 2 x 1000W Motors
* Filters to 0.5 Microns

I cant post a link to it as i'm a newbie 
(its on screwfix.com if you want to search)


also, without sounding like a complete newbie, how do you attach such a large hose (102mm) to your smaller woodworking tools....

thanks again!


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Neil,

I cannot speak to the best sources in the UK but can tell you that you can get started rather inexpensively. You will be safe but not as comfy as you'd like with a good respirator. Not the cheapie disposable ones but they aren't all that expensive either. I picked up a 3M 7500 series respirator, a couple of sets of HEPA rated dust filters and organic filter cartridges for ~$50US. The organic filters come in a sealed package and will "age" from being exposed to the atmosphere so keep them in a plastic bag when you aren't using finishes, solvents or glues with VOC's.

The filters will keep you from breathing the dust and even after you get set up with a DC and air filter, you'll have them for spraying or areas where the DC doesn't work well.

Others here will reply specifically to your question.


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

Neill,
After a respirator, I would focus on collecting dust at the source. A good way to start would be a portable dust collector with a minimum CFM rating for your most demanding tool. This unit could be moved around the shop to service tools as needed. This would save you the expense of ductwork and a high power system.

After this tool, I would purchase an ambient air filter.

As you build your tool collection with portables such as sanders, routers, etc., consider dust extraction as a critical element. Some manufacturers, such as Festool, are well-advanced in this area. 

You can find a wealth of information, including CFM requirements, etc. here. There is a lot of information to digest but it's well worth your time and effort.

In the meantime, you could always evacuate the air in the shop with inexpensive fans as weather permits. Good luck!

Joe


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

Hi, thanks for the info - I have began wading into that in-depth article.

Currently I have the following:

Ryobi plunge router: teeny dust extraction port
Rexon Compound mitre saw: 2" dust port
Black and Decker belt sander: teeny dust port

I posted a reply earlier to this thread but its in limbo because I am a newbie 

I have found a twin motor 0.5micron portable extractor, with a 6" hose - though im not sure how to connect to my current equipment.

I was looking at the Ryobi router table at some point as it has a "dust hood" which I could hopefully connect a good extrator to

Thanks again


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

Thinking about it, can you get the Clear vue cyclones in the UK anywhere? It might be worth the investment


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

i forgot to mention the extractors I have seen have flow rates of either 106Ltr/Sec and 1 has 53Ltr/Sec

Sorry for all the posts!


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Here is the link for the dx4000.

Record Power D4000 106Ltr/Sec Dust Extractor - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

yeah thats the one.

I dont mind lugging it round connecting it to the appropriate tool, but to be honest it will be in the same place most of the time


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Neil,

I have a DC (a Jet DC1100) that has 1 motor, about 1,500watts. That handles 1100 CFM, which is about 500 liters/sec. The unit you describe (based on motor size & air volume)sounds like it is designed to provide suction-power more like a very large vacuum than a dust collector. As a reference, the Clear Vue's run about 1400 - 1950CFM (660 - 920 l/s) . Their motors are 5hp (a bit less than 5000 watt).

With dust collection, its not so much the suction power (although you need some) as the volume of air moved & velocity. Standing in front of the ~150mm impeller discharge hose will move paper 6 meters away. A DC impeller ranges from 250 - 350 mm in diameter.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Neil

to me and lots of others, some people get the horse before the cart. instead of payin out big money on an air filtration system and then a shop vac. 

get a decent dust collector first, it will take care of the largest of the dust problem, then later get an air filtration unit. 

thats just my humble opinion. i wouldnt waste money on an air filtration system and leave tons of dust around that the filtration system couldnt handle.

read the forums and you will see that when that has been done, people think it will do the job, but its just for the dust in the air , not the dust emitted by tools , at least not directly.

like someone already said, start at the source.


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

kingnerk said:


> Hi, thanks for the info - I have began wading into that in-depth article.
> 
> Currently I have the following:
> 
> ...


Hi Neil,
My earlier post was geared more towards stationary tools. After reading this post, I think you could likely get by with an efficient shop vacuum with adequate hose length and connections (or universal connectors) that would fit the dust collection ports of the tools you own. If budget permits, I would seriously consider a vacuum with automatic tool start that powers the vacuum on when the tool is powered on. This makes life more convenient in the shop and ensures that you will always use the vacuum when required. Several manufacturers have products with this feature including Festool and Fein.

Two of the tools you list, the router and compound miter saw, pose a challenge for dust collection and I advise you to wear a respirator whenever operating them. In regards to routers, some manufacturers offer accessories to assist with dust collection. Check the aftermarket suppliers. Sometimes they offer improvements.

The miter saw requires a hood of sorts to contain/capture the dust as the bags that come with most are ineffective to say the least. You can go with ready-made (but pricey) aftermarket accessories such as Fastcap or others. But most woodworkers elect to build their own. Do an internet search. You'll find several plans.

Surprisingly, the small (1") of my Makita belt sander is very effective when hooked to my shop vacuum so I don't feel this tool will present much of a problem.

Good luck!

Joe


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Joe is absolutely right about the small tools, in fact lots of times i just go outside with the belt sander or the combo sander. i hate sanding dust. 

now if you add a planer or jointer, youre gonna need more power and air flow.

at that point you should consider dust collectors.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I went with the Jet 1000B air filtration and am happy I did. I use a couple shop vacs for hooking up to everything else and this is neither convenient nor is it the best, but all I know is wither sanding cutting or just blowing down the shop at the end of the day, there is no dust flooding around that I can see in the sunlight. It works for me and I would not change the way I have done this. Most others would not agree with me but that is OK, they are still friends, as long as they don’ get to mean about it.:haha::haha:


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hahahahahaha

Jerry we all have ideas that we like and use and whether anyone agrees with me or not, im just hardheaded enough to do it my way,lol

as far as being friends differences in views should not make any difference, besides, i want to keep you as a friend and hope you can help me build a flag case or at least help me with posts.

but it will be awhile, we have some health issues in the family right now, so i will get back to the shop when i can.


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## kingnerk (Aug 3, 2009)

ok thanks for the advice.

this looks like a good start to attach to my tools:
Record Power RSDE/P 53Ltr/sec Dust Extractor - Screwfix.com, Where the Trade Buys

And as my collection grows i will upgrade to something more meaty. 
I will also look at making an extractor hood for the chop saw.


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

Neil,
You're off to a good start. The 0.5 micron filter capability is a significant step up from most shop vacuum filters and you'll learn to appreciate the auto switch-on with power tool.

Joe


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## cnc-wood-routing (Aug 30, 2009)

My CNC machine came with an extraction exhaust, all I had to do was connect it up to an extraction unit and get it wired to the mains, it works perfectly keeping the dust to a minimum and this prolongs the life of my computer I use.


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## Gap_308 (May 2, 2009)

I got this dust deputy to start as my shop vac filters were going bad fast, and costing alot. I can honestly say this thing is worth every penny. But remember I use it on different tools so it's not hard mounted to the shop. 5 full buckets of dust and still the filter looks new. 

Oneida Air Systems - Dust Deputy


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## Gap_308 (May 2, 2009)

found em' 

Oneida Air Systems UK


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## Rutabagared (Jun 18, 2009)

The Dust Deputy is available in several configurations.

Joe


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Neil:

There are two parts to dust collection, the implement collector and the air cleaner. 

Let's start with the *implement collector:*

This starts as a hose connected to the tool, i.e. the table saw. This hose gets connected to a fan that sucks dust laden air from the tool and blows it into a filter/collector of some sort. 

There are two kinds of collectors, cotton bags and garbage cans which dictate what kind of fan you use. 

Cotton bags use big dedicated dust collection systems that cost a fortune to buy and run.​
The common ordinary smooth topped garbage can, fitted with a special lid, uses a shop vacuum. You saw one of those lids with the Oneida Air Systems - Dust Deputy. However, the same philosophy, different adaptation is the LeeValley Tools Cyclone lid and BusyBee sells a more simplified version for less money, again. Even Triton has(had?) a contribution to this philosophy.

Then, there's Phil Thein's "The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle." (cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm) The Thien Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle Phil has several versions of this and he shows you how to make it. If you dig around, I've come across various versions of the Thein lid.​
Next you'll see advertisements for *air cleaners*. 

BusyBee.ca sells one for $439Cdn. Does all kinds of fancy stuff. If you make a costly dust collection system, you also make a costly air cleaner.

I use a 24" square furnace filter (1.5 micron) taped to a garage sale 24" box fan. What the dust collector misses, the box fan collects. If you're paranoid about particulate matter, furnace filters are available that will trap just about anything except air.​
Methods of use are quite simple. 

The dedicated dust collection system is stationary in one place in the shop. Then, you install static-controlled ducting throughout the shop and control the system with blast gates and permanent connections to the tools.​
The garbage can philosophy requires that your garbage can and shop vac be towed around the shop and attached to any given tool as required. I've found that 4" hoses, the shorter--the better, function best and the more horsepower in the shop vac, the more effective the dust collection. I have a 1.5HP and a 2.5HP and the 2.5 is far better and cleaner than the 1.5HP.​
I hope this helps.

Allthunbs
notes copied out -- articles/dustcollection


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Like most here I started with a shop vac and some 2 1/2" hoses. I soon found out that shop vacs collect most of the chips but put most of the small dust particles back into the air. Not good. And the noise was horrendous. Anyone that tells you that a $40 shop vac is quiet is either lying or deaf. 
That's when I invested in a real dust collection system. Something that fit the size of my shop, a 1 1/2HP unit with 4" main ducting around the perimeter of the shop with 4" and 2 1/2" blast gates. When you consider how often it's used and the health issues involved it makes no sense not to have a DC system. Woodworkers always say "I'd rather put that money towards tools" But a DC system IS a tool. Don't know why some don't view it that way.
Anyway I took it a few steps further by adding a air filtration system. Filters air down to 1 micron. Now the larger systems do have one drawback, they are difficult to attach to small hand held tools like sanders, routers and circular saws. Some manufacturers like Fein and Festool have overcome this problem with high quality quiet dedicated vacs that attach directly to these smaller tools and are activated anytime the tool is running. These vacs catch particles as small as .1 micron using HEPA filters. 
It's your health. Invest wisely.


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