# Oops-table saw



## woodcurls (May 11, 2011)

Hello everyone.
This is my first post, however, I have been reading the posts on the forum for quite some time. I felt compelled to post my two cents worth after reading about the mishaps some of the Forum members have experienced.
It was at the end of the day(sound familiar?) and I had been trying to square up some thick heavy mystery wood I had acquired into some usable lumber. The saw blade was high after cutting a thick piece and I neglected to lower it to the proper height for the next piece and I cut off the top of the knuckle of my right index finger.
That was two months ago and I don't know how much use I will have of my finger yet.
Let me assure everyone that SAFETY RULES EXIST FOR A REASON, PAY ATTENTION TO THEM. Thank you for listening .


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

oh no ... not another one. there goes my stomach again.

wow. sorry to hear your story.

there can never be too many reminders to be safe. but we could definately do with fewer examples of what happens if safety precautions are forgotten.

i hope things work out for you.


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

I always trained people that "these machines have zero conscience, and they don't really care what body part comes in contact with them; the Machines always win."


Hope you get all the feeling back. Some of those injuries stay around for life.


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## barking spider (Dec 26, 2010)

Gary,
Sorry this happened to you. We are all a micro second away from the same fate every time we turn on a cutting tool. 
Focus, focus, focus.
Hope you heal up fast!


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

safety does not just apply to working. It is a proven fact that accidents happen in our own homes at a ratio of 3 to 1 compared to industry. Safety is on going 24 - 7. Many think oh it could never happen to me. Reminder, stay away from anyone who thinks this way.


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

I try to be careful but there is always a chance of something going wrong. After a close call or two, no blood, my wife decided to buy me a Saw Stop. 
Now that is a* great wife*!


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## UlrichJ (Feb 16, 2012)

I rode a motorcycle when I was younger. A close friend who rode and raced bikes once told me, the day he's no longer afraid of his bike, it will be the last day he rides. I take that same motto with my power tools. Be safe!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

UlrichJ said:


> I rode a motorcycle when I was younger. A close friend who rode and raced bikes once told me, the day he's no longer afraid of his bike, it will be the last day he rides. I take that same motto with my power tools. Be safe!


Very, very, true. You never stand directly behind your table saw blade, you keep your body parts away from the whirly parts. I'm 71, probably the worst injury I have ever had from any power tool is from changing the blade in my scroll saw.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

elrodqfudp said:


> I try to be careful but there is always a chance of something going wrong. After a close call or two, no blood, my wife decided to buy me a *Saw Stop*.


I've been wondering about these Saw Stop table saws for a while now.

Generally the only times I use a table saw on site (where I do pretty much all my work) is for ripping down either plywood or sometimes roughsawn timber. The plywood is OK but often the roughsawn is kept outside or brought by the supplier pretty much straight from the dip tank.
Anyway, its often wet. Now considering the Saw Stop relies on resistance to determine if the user has his finger in the way I wonder how well it would cope with wet wood?

Yes I know that in an ideal world I wouldn't have to cut wet wood, yada yada yada but this is on site conditions which I have very little control over and sometimes I just need to do it. 

Have you ever cut wet wood with it and did it set the Stop feature off?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

demographic said:


> Have you ever cut wet wood with it and did it set the Stop feature off?


Hi Scott

The Saw Stop apparently has a feature which allows you to deselect the sensor to handle wet timbers which can foll the sensor - which circumvents the whole idea behind the invention. However, Saw Stop technology has serious limitations, such as inability to cope with the rotational mass of even 12in blades, let alone the spinning mass behind a 16in blade. This is part of the reason why it's inventor has singularly failed to sell the concept to European manufacturers

Rehards

Phil


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

Yes you can cut wet wood with the Sawstop. It has the means to disable the device.
If you forget and do not disable it when cutting wet wood or some pressure treated wood, then you get to replace the cartridge$$.
When you think of the cost of these saws just remember that is much less than a trip to the ER.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

elrodqfudp said:


> When you think of the cost of these saws just remember that is much less than a trip to the ER.


Hi Browne

If US manufacturers universally adopted proper riving knives and proper crown guards as well as the short (adjustable) rip fence AND then users _actually used these features_, as well as proper push sticks (which always keep your hands 12 to 16in away from the blade and don't allow you to slide a hand past it) whilst not standing in the firing line and on a saw with adequate run-off support then *95%* of the need for a Saw Stop would simply disappear...... To my mind and in my experience Saw Stop is a sticking plaster solution to a problem which was solved a half century or more ago - and many users could get most of the "advantage" of a Saw Stop with some cheap and simple (home-made) safety devices plus a bit of self-education. Or are folk really so keen on spending lots and lots of money to make another lawyer rich?

Regards

Phil


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## elrodqfudp (Sep 5, 2011)

It is my understanding that there is a move afoot by one of the government safety departments to require this type of device on all table saws. Apparently there are a number of companies trying to come up with a similar device that does not violate the Sawstop patents.


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

Phil P said:


> Hi Browne
> 
> If US manufacturers universally adopted proper riving knives and proper crown guards as well as the short (adjustable) rip fence AND then users _actually used these features_, as well as proper push sticks (which always keep your hands 12 to 16in away from the blade and don't allow you to slide a hand past it) whilst not standing in the firing line and on a saw with adequate run-off support then *95%* of the need for a Saw Stop would simply disappear...... To my mind and in my experience Saw Stop is a sticking plaster solution to a problem which was solved a half century or more ago - and many users could get most of the "advantage" of a Saw Stop with some cheap and simple (home-made) safety devices plus a bit of self-education. Or are folk really so keen on spending lots and lots of money to make another lawyer rich?
> 
> ...



The answer is, yes. Think of the millions of woodworkers who made excellent furniture without ANY of those safeguards. "Sawstop", makes me think people really do want a Nanny State.:yes4:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Phil; one of my pet peeves is the terribly designed guard mounting system on my Delta contractor saw. It's a lesson in how not to design machinery; designed to meet a price point, not to be user friendly.
The only time it can be left on is for through cuts where the wood will pass on either side of the vertical rear strut. Dadoing etc requires it be off...so I'm unprotected and not by my choice. Putting it on and off is a p.i.t.a.
I may have to figure a way to make room for one of these...
General & General International Excalibur Overarm Blade Cove [GEN-50EXBC] - $399.99 : KMS Tools & Equipment from Vancouver BC, Selling quality tools at affordable prices all over Canada. Largest powertool, handtool and woodworking machinery retailer


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## steamfab (Jun 22, 2012)

Thank you. We can never have enough reminders to steer us away from all the possible dangers.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

elrodqfudp said:


> It is my understanding that there is a move afoot by one of the government safety departments to require this type of device on all table saws. Apparently there are a number of companies trying to come up with a similar device that does not violate the Sawstop patents.


Hi Browne

Is that not just another hare set running by SawStop? Their doohickey works on 10in saws, but it doesn't work on 12in or larger ones (too much kinetic energy), which is one reason why every major machinery manufacturer producing larger (i.e. "industrial") saws has rejected it to date. Can't see how you'd get a law passed which discriminated on blade size

Regards

Phil


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Yes indeed!
As a user of heavy industrial table saws, sawing my fingers off is unlikely due to, 1. I use the blade gaurd/splitter, and 2, I use push blocks.

The main concerns for me are,
Kick back.
Board coming apart during a cut, sending sharp spears back at you.
Possible failure with a blade, such as spitting off a carbide tooth.

Now, I have read about a board binding, and for the operator to keep holding the board, and somehow turning the saw off.
Well, that would not be a wise thing to do with a 7 to 10hp saw with a 14 or 16" blade.

I seen a kick back where the operator sufferd the skin on his hand peeled back from the edge of the board.
This is why, I never have my hands in direct contact with the board being cut. Instead using two push blocks, one with a rear cleat to grab on to the end of the board.
For ripping narrow work, a tall, narrow, and long push block with two hand holds can be made

Even when using smaller saws, I do the same, and staying out of the way, of the blade, and board.
If the board is goind to be ejected out, I let it go.
Also, I stand out of the way, with one foot forward, this way if there is an incident that rips the push blocks out of my hands, sends me backwards, then I wont tend to fall back forward into the blade.

A few things I never do-

If the board does not lay flat on the table, I dont cut it on the table saw, use some other means such as a Skill saw, or even hand saw.
Why risk it? A warped board is not going to be acurately cut on a table saw anyway.

Ripping any wood, that has anything less then a smooth and straight edge that is against the fence.
That is what a jointer is for, gives a flat surface to the saw table, and a true edge to the fence.

Cut any wood that has cracks or loose knots, this is where a board can explode sending sharp spears clean though your torso, arms, or hands.

Some other points,
The saw needs to be adjusted true with itself, blade to fence, any bind is asking for trouble.

Just my take on it, and only my opinion.


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## malargent (Dec 26, 2012)

I get shivers every time I hear a story like this.

I've had too many close calls with my eyes .... I finally bought myself a full-face shield and have been very good about using it.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

I have been a safety director for several years now, since my retirement from the mechanic's world. I would just like to add, two things I have learned in the last ten years. First:Many accidents occur in the field with newer employees. Second:98% of all accidents I investigate are man made, 1% percent is a machine factor (this is usually caused by man forgeting to put a guard back on or something similar, and Third: 1% are actually a natural cause, such as wind, slick areas, or some other act of God. Man for the most part is his own worst enemy. Safety is an attitude.


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