# Porch Post Design Using Router



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

I’m a new member to the router forums and to woodworking. Seems like a lot of great members here who are willing to share their knowledge. Hoping to get some input from some of you on a project I will be doing this spring. 

My wife and I own an old 1870’s limestone farmhouse in the Flint Hills of Kansas (picture of the house attached). We have owned it since 1997, or should I say it has owned us. Any of you that have old houses know what I mean. The house originally had a front porch that was taken off in the 1980’s. This spring, our project is to rebuild the front porch. Attached is a sketchup drawing of the basic idea we have for the porch. My questions concern the porch posts.

The plan is to use 6” X 6” X 10’ S4S (sanded four sides) western red cedar posts. Local lumberyard sells them for $79. I will cut them down to finished height of 8’6”. The posts will be primed and painted when finished. I want to leave the bottom three feet square, to make installation of the handrail and balusters easier. I also am leaving the top two feet of the finished posts square to give me a good flat surface to attach whatever bracket or spandrel system we decide on (underneath the beam, between the posts). So, on the posts between 3’ and 6’6” I am planning on using a router to dress the posts with some type of decorative feature instead of just leaving the posts square from top to bottom.

I have purchased a Bosch 1617 plunge router and played around with it a little bit on some ideas I have. Attached is a photo of what I did on some scrap 6” X 6” material I had laying around from a horse barn project a few years ago. I chamfered the corners of the post 1/2”, to knock off the squareness of the post. I made a guide template (?), to clamp to the post so that I could plunge route a classical bit into the faces of the post 3/8” deep (in a rectangular pattern on the face of the post about two inches in from the edge of the post). I than came back with a flat bit and removed about a 1/4” of material from the face of the post, inside of the routed out classical bit groove. 

I hope I explained that well enough to understand. The result is a look that resembles a raised panel on the faces of the post. Keep in mind, on the actual post, the raised panel effect will be from 3’ to 6’6”, between the handrail on the bottom and the bracket/spandrels on the top.

I’m thinking at the top, where the post goes back to being square for two feet before it hits the beam, I might manufacture some collar molding to wrap around the post. A couple of inches above that wrap the post in a crown molding. That will still leave me about 18 inches of flat post to put in my bracket/spandrel system under the beam, between the posts. 

Would appreciate any input regarding my design for the posts. Is there something you would do differently? I have a thick skin, so any criticism of my idea would be taken constructively. I would also like to see or hear any other ideas you might have to dress up a square post. Have any of you guys or gals dressed up a square post to make it look better? It doesn’t have to be a porch post. Just looking for other ideas than what I have come up with. 

Thanks, 
Jim


----------



## Capt Splinter (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum. I personally don't have any experience with dressing up posts like you are trying to do, so I can't give any advise. But I will say, I think what you did with the post in your picture is very clever and looks great! I like that the post is still a solid one piece design. I have 8" square posts holding up my carport, and they have a small corner molding on all 4 corners. When I moved in, they all looked great. Now after several years of rain and sunshine, they are warping and trying to pull off the posts. Guess I didn't keep them painted and weather proofed well enough. If you decide to add the crown molding to the top of the posts, I would just suggest that you keep it all weather proofed very well so they don't seperate at some time in the future.
I'm sure there are others with much more experience who can give you more ideas.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey Jim; I'm absolutely not being critical, just my own personal like/dislike. So here goes...on the inset panels, the corners are round instead of square due to the nature of routing. Some cabinet door mfgs. tried that technique for kit. cab. doors; routed mdf blanks. They weren't very popular because they visually jar. The appearance is contrary to one's experience and expectation of what a panel or wainscotting _should_ look like, period architecture if you like.
It's just a suggestion but you might consider routing a normal dado, chisel the corners square then do your moulding as after-applied. I promise you, you'll be much happier with the finished impression.
The other thing is just a suggestion; cedar is soft, you might consider easing the corners on the lower section to protect them from splintering (impact). 
Cheers,
-Dan


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jim

I like it  you are right on about the way you have done the test post, it's going to look very nice..it will add a lot to the porch..and well worth the time. 

Faux Raised Panel Bit Flat Bottom Details
==



Flint Hilltopper said:


> I’m a new member to the router forums and to woodworking. Seems like a lot of great members here who are willing to share their knowledge. Hoping to get some input from some of you on a project I will be doing this spring.
> 
> My wife and I own an old 1870’s limestone farmhouse in the Flint Hills of Kansas (picture of the house attached). We have owned it since 1997, or should I say it has owned us. Any of you that have old houses know what I mean. The house originally had a front porch that was taken off in the 1980’s. This spring, our project is to rebuild the front porch. Attached is a sketchup drawing of the basic idea we have for the porch. My questions concern the porch posts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Being exposed to Kansas weather extremes, I wouldn't add any moldings or applied paneling. See George's post. 
Your example looks great to me. As Dan suggested, easing the corners is a good idea.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry; not to belabour my earlier point, but this mfg. seems to have come up with a solution that doesn't involve after applied mouldings. Not perfect but way more aesthetically pleasing...
Round corners: http://www.lakesidemoulding.com/shop/images/prd/d_122.jpg

Much better: Square Raised Panel MDF Cabinet Door - Lakeside Moulding & Mfg. Co.

Again, just one guy's personal opinion.


----------



## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

*Minimum Height and Rounded Corners.*



DaninVan said:


> Sorry; not to belabour my earlier point, but this mfg. seems to have come up with a solution that doesn't involve after applied mouldings. Not perfect but way more aesthetically pleasing...
> Round corners: http://www.lakesidemoulding.com/shop/images/prd/d_122.jpg
> 
> Much better: Square Raised Panel MDF Cabinet Door - Lakeside Moulding & Mfg. Co.
> ...


 
I agree that the square cormners look better but no matter what, they are a lot more difficult to create.

This question came up a while ago regarding these square corners on MDF cabinet doors. As it turns out, they were done with a 5 axis CNC router using a pointed, or V-groove, bit. If I remember correctly, this was after the initial routing was done (i.e. a bit change).

The rounded corners will look okay and the overall effect will be achieved.

One thing though, many states (not Kansas though) have chnaged the minimum height for exterior guardrails to 42 inches. Although not required in Kansas (I believe 36 inches is still the requirement), it could increase safety. Not sure how it would look aestheticly but then again you're currently planning to have a 4 inch wide by 42 inch tall raised panel accent (i.e. might be too long and narrow). Additionally, you'll want the raised panel detail to start about about 2 inches above the guardrail, not right at it. Same for the other end; you should end the raised panel detail about 2 inches below the spandrel brackets.

I also agree with easing the corners but a small 45° chamfer might look better than a rounded corner and will match the middle section of the beam.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Thanks for the input from you guys. Sorry I haven't replied sooner.

I agree with Dan that the rounded corners in the faux raised panel do not look as good as square corners. But the number one priority (after cost) is to build a porch that will hold up to the extremes in weather. Dadoing out the post and applying moulding is not an option for us. Number one it is a lot more work. Number two, I have to worry about all that moulding holding up over time. If I dadoed out the posts and added moulding, I figure for four posts that would be 126 feet of moulding. Definitely not doing that.

On the collar and crown moulding I plan on wrapping the top of the posts with, I am hoping to be able to manufacture some moulding out of PVC so I don't have to worry about the weather affecting it as much.

Sorry, I don't remember who posted the comments about the height of the railings. We aren't too concerned about the height of the rail as far as safety concerns. The porch floor will be cement slab that will only be several inches above grade. Not a real big concern of someone falling off or over the rail. In reality, for us a shorter handrail is probably safer:sarcastic: Plan on building a railing sturdy enough to sit on. 

I have looked at a lot of pictures of porches on the web, and do not care for the high handrail look. I know it is code in some areas, but 19th century homes leaned towards a shorter rail. 

Back to the rounded corners on the inset panels. 
I am considering doing the project as seen in the photo of the test post, with one exception. The classical bit profile starts out from the face of the post cutting straight down into the post for an 1/8" before it starts its curved profile. If I were to take a chisel and square up the corners on just that top 1/8" of the bit profile, It might be a good compromise. At first glance, the corner would have a right angle, not round. You would only notice that the corner was rounded by looking a lot closer at the profile the bit left behind.
.
The key would be in getting the chisel cuts perfectly in line with the outside edge of the inset panel. Otherwise I think it might look worse than just leaving them alone.

If I took a small carpenters square(?) and clamped it to the post with the inside corner of the square lined up with the outside edges of the inset panel, it would help insure my start to the chiseled corner would be 90 degrees. 

Does that make sense. 
Any feedback from you guys and gals?

I also would still like to see some other ideas anyone might have for dressing a square post. Again, it doesn't have to be an actual post. It could be a table leg or some other square piece of wood that was dressed up.

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jim; sounds like a perfect solution. You did say they were cedar, I believe? A joy to carve/chisel. 
Maybe do a test piece to get your technique down, before you start on the posts?

_"I know it is code in some areas, but 19th century homes leaned towards a shorter rail." _
Shorter people... 
The code here in B.C. is (actually expressed in metric but even the Inspectors refer to it in Imperial...) 36" if less than 5' to grade and 42" if over 5' to grade. Yes, the 42" rail is a pain in the a** if you're sitting looking through a window. Right at eye level.
Cheers,
-Dan


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jim; I forgot to mention that laying out the intersecting corner lines in pencil, then scoring them with a very sharp utility knife before chiselling will pretty much stop the chisel from wandering off.
But then you were already going to do that...


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Jim; I forgot to mention that laying out the intersecting corner lines in pencil, then scoring them with a very sharp utility knife before chiselling will pretty much stop the chisel from wandering off.
> But then you were already going to do that...


Well.... that idea sounds a lot easier than clamping a carpenters square to every corner to insure my chisel cuts make a 90 degree corner (4 corners per side X 4 sides X 4 posts = 64 corners to chisel)

I will definitely be practicing before I start on a real post.

Thanks,
Jim


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Started on the porch posts this week and took some photos to help explain the process.

Went to the local lumberyard and bought four 6' X 6' X 10' sanded four side western red cedar posts. Had to look through the pile of posts they had to find four quality pieces. The quality of the sanding from the mill was poor, but I have no other options. Next closest supplier of that size post that has them in stock is two hours away. 
When I looked at the posts at this lumberyard two months ago, they had actual 90 degree corners. The posts I bought this week have corners that are rounded. Not a big deal since I had decided to round the corners anyway. Saved me a step in the process.

$79 a piece I think is a good price, but I really don't have any knowledge of what they should sell for.

Picture 1. - I made a jig to clamp to the post to aid in making my plunge cut that will outline the recessed panel area. Looking at the pic of the jig lying on the ground, I notice the yard needs to be mowed. That job is taking a back seat to the posts. I made the jig long enough to wrap around the bottom of the post. That way I just need to pull the jig up tight to the bottom of the post and clamp it down. Saved marking each side of the post on where the jig would have needed to have been clamped.

Pic 2. - Starting my plunge cuts. Total depth is going to be 3/8". I made three passes at 1/8" each pass.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

I stated at the beginning of this thread that I was a beginner to routing and woodworking in general. This next bit of info might be useful to someone else starting out that doesn't understand the properties of wood.

In my last post there is a picture where you can see three posts in the back of my truck. I had bought the four posts that morning and came home to work on them. I decided to do all of the work to one post to make sure I could accomplish what I was trying before I started carving on all three.

It took me a few hours to make the jig  ....and a few more hours to carve in all the details on the first post. When I finished the post and went to get the next post I noticed that two of the posts in the bed of the truck had started to split and crack. I knew they weren't like that when I bought them that morning. You guys tell me if my suspicions are correct. The posts at the lumberyard were outside but in a covered area protected from sun, moisture...etc. When I got them home they sat in the sun all day about 75 degrees outside. I'm guessing the moisture in the posts escaped too quickly and the posts started cracking and splitting. If you look at the pic with the three posts in the truck you can just make out a crack starting on the end of the post on the right. Turns out two of the posts in the truck ended up with splitting that made them useless for holding up a porch. Fortunately, the lumberyard allowed me to exchange them for two other posts in good shape. I made sure I kept all of the posts out of the sun from than on until I finished putting two coats of primer on them today.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I feel your pain, Jim. Sounds like the posts were pretty green(?). the native carvers up here in the Pacific Northwest, like to get their Cedar logs into a shelter with stable conditions, and then _let it sit_ until they're sure the wood has stabilized. Cedar isn't any worse or better for checking than most other commonly available softwood lumber.
Did you check the moisture content?


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Jim,

I agree, the jig is a great idea...

The time spent making it will reflect in the consistency of the end result.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Plunge cut for the profile of the recessed panel is done on all four sides of the test post. By the way I used a classical profile plunge bit. Router is the one I bought for this job....Bosch 1617. First router I have ever used. Can't compare it to anything, but it has impressed me with it's quality.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Did you check the moisture content?


Dan,
I don't have the slightest idea how to check moisture content. 

I just tried to work fast and keep the wood out of the sun. As soon as I had it sanded I got two coats of primer on it hoping that it will stabalize the wood.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> I agree, the jig is a great idea...
> 
> The time spent making it will reflect in the consistency of the end result.


James,
It's embarrassing how long it took me to make the jig, but it was well worth it. Not only did I get consistent results from side to side and post to post....it also took away a lot of stress in not having to worry about whether my cuts were in the right place. Slip the jig over the post....tap it until it makes contact with the bottom of the post and then clamp it down.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Quick way to check it,hit it with a small ball pen hammer, if you see any moisture in the dent it's to wet to use.

http://hint.fm/wind/
==


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Going to have to continue my post tomorrow. Our county just got put under a tornado warning. Tornado is thirty miles away....plenty of time for it to go back in the clouds, but it is heading right towards us so we better take cover.


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Flint Hilltopper said:


> Plunge cut for the profile of the recessed panel is done on all four sides of the test post. By the way I used a classical profile plunge bit. Router is the one I bought for this job....Bosch 1617. First router I have ever used. Can't compare it to anything, but it has impressed me with it's quality.


I am looking for a classical profile plungebit for a project I have in mind (Template Toms picture frame).

The only profiles I can find have the bearing on the end.

Can you remember where you obtained the bit?

Harry, can you help?


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> I am looking for a classical profile plungebit for a project I have in mind (Template Toms picture frame).
> 
> The only profiles I can find have the bearing on the end.
> 
> Can you remember where you obtained the bit?


I bought the classical plunge bit through Grizzly ... 
C1680 Classical Plunge Pattern Bit, 1/4" Shank

Item # C1680 - 1/4" shank --- If I remember they sell four different Classical plunge bits in both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks in two different sizes as far as the cutting diameter.

Jim


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Next step for the posts was to add the chamfered edge to the corners of the posts. 
Used a 45 degree chamfer bit with a bearing on the end.
I made two identical jigs for this process. One for the top and one for the bottom of the area to be chamfered. The jigs were just scrap pieces screwed together to wrap around three sides of the post. The jigs looked like the letter C. On the open end of the jig I left the pieces a little longer so that when I routed that side of the post, the base plate on the router had jig material to run into. Marked the post on one side three inches down from my plunge cut already on the post. Slipped the jigs onto the post...lined the top edge up with the mark and clamped them to the post. This way the jig is in place for all four sides of the post. Chamfer one side, turn the post and router the next side. Once I got going, even a novice like me made good time.

I will say this is the point where I realized how soft cedar is. My first, cut I was putting too much pressure on the router making sure the guide bearing stayed in contact with the side of the post. After making the cut, I could see an impression in the wood from the guide bearing! The impression sanded out later, but I made sure not to put so much side pressure on the router on subsequent chamfer cuts.

Two pics with this post show jigs on the post and final result after chamfering four corners.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Actually just noticed in the second picture in my last post, if you zoom in on the post you can see the indention in the wood from the guide bearing along the right side of the top of the post. Live and learn.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jim; handy little item...
Timber Check™ Moisture Meter - Lee Valley Tools
I bought a very pricey one about 15 years a go when I got involved in doing 'leaky condo' restoration. The Property Mgmt. company wanted hard facts before they'd get the strata councils to ok repairs. Apparently mushrooms growing on the drywall interiors weren't proof enough...


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Flint Hilltopper said:


> I bought the classical plunge bit through Grizzly ...
> C1680 Classical Plunge Pattern Bit, 1/4" Shank
> 
> Item # C1680 - 1/4" shank --- If I remember they sell four different Classical plunge bits in both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks in two different sizes as far as the cutting diameter.
> ...


Thanks for the response, Jim.

As I expected, my friend *Harrysin* from Perth put me in in the right spot.

edge & face forming router bits

I am looking for bits without bearings as I will be using with guide bushing and template.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Next step is to lower or reduce the profile of the inset panel.
I didn't want the inset panel to be the same height as the diameter of the post. Used a straight bit to take off 1/8" of material from the inset panel or raised panel, whichever term would be correct. 

The first picture is what I ended up with. I know, it is kind of hard to see. The second picture is a look at the profile of my work after a good hand sanding. I tried to knock down all of the sharp corners. Since the posts will be painted, I figured I have a better chance of keeping paint on them over time if there are no sharp corners. Once I sanded and ran a tack cloth over the posts, they really started looking like what we had envisioned.

Back toward the beginning of this thread, there was discussion about trying to find a way to make the corners more square for a better appearance. More like a raised panel door on a set of cabinets. But that is not how router bits make corners. In a perfect world, we would have loved to make the corners square, but after doing some testing on some scrap wood, my chiseling skills just aren't good enough to make them look better than what I have in the pictures. In essence, I would rather have crisp rounded corners than choppy out of line square corners. 

Plus, the one whose opinion matters most, (my better half), loves them just the way they are. And that settles that.

Jim


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Four posts routed...four posts sanded....four posts primed with two coats of primer.....I need a cold tasty beverage


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> Thanks for the response, Jim.
> 
> As I expected, my friend *Harrysin* from Perth put me in in the right spot.
> 
> ...


You are welcome, James

Jim


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Well.....it's been a month and the construction is just about done. We actually had hired a contractor to put a new roof and trim boards on our house along with the planned addition of the porch. First let me post a couple of pictures of the house right before construction started


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Have to post this pic. Contractor was replacing shingles, sheathing and rafters on the tall section of the house. He wanted at least three days without rain in the forecast. Ended up starting on the porch and other parts of the house before he did the tall roof. This pic is just too cool not to share. Tomorrow I will post better pics of the house.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Here's a picture of the house taken last Sunday during the partial solar eclipse. The sun was about twenty minutes away from setting and the moon covered about half of the sun. Really muted the direct sunlight and cast a nice glow on everything. On the house we had the contractor add the eaves back to the gable ends that a previous owner had taken off. Contractor called the detail he added to the roofline that wraps around the front of the house a "pork chop". I call it a cornice return or open base pediment. Any one know what they are actually supposed to be called?

Oh yeah, the porch!!!! My contribution was the posts. We cut off about a foot and a half of the ten foot posts so they ended up being about 8.5 feet.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Here's another shot of the house. Really love the light the solar eclipse gave off. We made sure the contractor framed the ceiling joists strong enough to hang the porch swing. The chain that came with the swing is just a little short, leaving the swing a few inches higher than ideal. Temporary solution is the foot stools you can see on the porch floor. Those are the tops of two of the posts we cut off


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

A closer look at the porch. Still need to add the railing and some type of brackets or spandrels under the beam between the posts. The dimensions of the panels I routed into the posts will make more sense once the railing and brackets/spandrels are up.
Took the old storm door that was falling apart off and reframed the entryway. New storm door is on the list of things to do.

A little fill dirt around the concrete slab and some landscaping will make the porch blend into it's surroundings a little better than it does now.


----------



## Flint Hilltopper (Feb 23, 2012)

Another pic of the porch with a good view of the posts.

(By the way, you all have no idea how long it took the Mrs. and I to pick the lights. By the end I was on my knees BEGGING her to just choose something!  I think she made the right choice!)

Having a few people over this weekend for Memorial Day.
We'll see if any one says anything about the rounded corners on the routered out panels that are on the posts. :haha:

Thanks for all the advice that I have gotten from the forums. Not just in this thread, but also all of the knowledge I have gained reading other threads.

Please remember those that have sacrificed so much for all of us this Memorial Day,
Jim


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jim...

WOW!! now that just looks plain ole COMFORTABLE!!!!

very nicely done!


----------

