# Need some help with my new dust collector



## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

I was given a rockler dust right wall mounted dust collector for Christmas. It's the 3/4 hp unit with the 4" inlet. 

Is it worth using 6" duct with this unit? All my tools are on the same wall and the longest run is about 20'. 

I want to hook it to my miter saw, table saw, planer and then have a floor sweep and a loose 1 1/4 hose for hand power tools and the keep jig. 

Thoughts?


Thanks for the help


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## xxaquadogxx (Dec 14, 2016)

hunterguy86 said:


> I was given a rockler dust right wall mounted dust collector for Christmas. It's the 3/4 hp unit with the 4" inlet.
> 
> Is it worth using 6" duct with this unit? All my tools are on the same wall and the longest run is about 20'.
> 
> ...




Are you going to use rigid piping for the majority of the run, and are you going to use a pre filter like a cyclone, Thein or trash can separator? The pre filter, even a trash can separating device will help immensely. Just remember that the bag will not catch the majority of the harmful dust which is much smaller than the bag will catch. The collector will do a great job for cleaning the shop and catching the big dust. I would run 4" pvc for the long run or runs and 4" flex to the machines. I hope this is helpful. 


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## Tonto1 (Nov 10, 2016)

I'm no expert, but I would use 4" PVC pipe for the long run. Install a "T" at each vacuum spot & use flex hose from there to the machine. I would step down to the size of the out flow pipe of each machine (reducing T's). I would also have caps for each T so all the suction will be concentrated on the machine you are using.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Charlotte-Pipe-4-in-x-4-in-x-2-in-dia-PVC-Sanitary-Tee-Fitting/3132831

If money is no object, you could put an inline valve at each T (inline, after the reduced T).

https://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-2-in-PVC-Sch-40-Socket-In-Line-Ball-Valve/3353878


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

I was thinking I would use metal hvac duct for the main runs and use rockler metal blast gates at each tool


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

Also, thinking I will do a chip separator of some sort. Maybe a thein baffle. I have a 55 gallon plastic drum that will be perfect I think. 


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## xxaquadogxx (Dec 14, 2016)

hunterguy86 said:


> Also, thinking I will do a chip separator of some sort. Maybe a thein baffle. I have a 55 gallon plastic drum that will be perfect I think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




It sounds like you did your homework as to how to set it up. A 55 gallon drum will work, but it will get heavey and cumbersome, a 30 or 35 gallon drum will be much easier to move when it gets full. 


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## Tonto1 (Nov 10, 2016)

I'm thinking the PVC will be the best route. You don't want to make any portion larger that the intake of the dust collector unit. It will cause you to loose suction power, just plain physics. The PVC is smooth & will be easy to keep clean. You can put a 4" foam plug in it, turn it on, it will suck the plug through & clean it as it goes. You can put a screen in line to stop the plug from going into the dust collector.


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

xxaquadogxx said:


> It sounds like you did your homework as to how to set it up. A 55 gallon drum will work, but it will get heavey and cumbersome, a 30 or 35 gallon drum will be much easier to move when it gets full.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I was thinking I'd set the drum on a cart of some type to facilitate movement. Then I could just roll it out and dump it. 

I think it would be handy because I could scoop out of it with a small 1 gallon bucket to throw saw dust when I slop oil during oil changes. 




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## xxaquadogxx (Dec 14, 2016)

hunterguy86 said:


> I was thinking I'd set the drum on a cart of some type to facilitate movement. Then I could just roll it out and dump it.
> 
> I think it would be handy because I could scoop out of it with a small 1 gallon bucket to throw saw dust when I slop oil during oil changes.
> 
> ...




Sounds like you have a winning set up. The only thing I would try to have is 45 degree junctions or sweeping 90s. This will help airflow, and not block near as much as a T fitting. 


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## hunterguy86 (Jan 5, 2016)

xxaquadogxx said:


> Sounds like you have a winning set up. The only thing I would try to have is 45 degree junctions or sweeping 90s. This will help airflow, and not block near as much as a T fitting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




So 6" is overkill?


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## xxaquadogxx (Dec 14, 2016)

I do not think that the D.C. That you have will draw enough air to benefit from the additional diameter. 


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

There is another reason for the chip collector, it keeps chips from dinging and stopping up the blower. I also agree that a 30 gallon chip collector can get pretty heavy. I'd hate to haul a full 55 gallon drum very far. I got a 30 gallon fiber drum with a metal locking lid from ULine, which would make it easy to install a cyclone. I use the drum with 4 inch Rockler fittings to create a flow inside the drum, and the heavier stuff drops to the bottom. I think I'd like the cyclone better than the two port chip design and would do the cyclone instead if I had it to do again. But I like being married and have about spent all I can on DC for now.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I vote for four inch pvc sewer and drain (thinner than regular sch 40 PVC). Keep it simple and buy blast gates that are self cleaning. You can thank me later. The plastic ones always jam up with sawdust. I use a pair of vise grips and a piece of wire to clean out the slide area so they will close. A real pain and you lose suction for each one that doesn't shut off.

I have a Harbor Freight dust collector mounted on the wall with a home made Thein separator upstream of the fan. It works very well.

Note that I have a short run of PVC with just two take-offs. One to the table saw, and the other is used to connect a flexible hose to the planer, jointer, drum sander, or general clean up. The other side of the shop has a shop vac with plumbing to the miter saw, bench top belt sander and another general port so I can hook up a hose to the pocket hole jig, sander or general clean up.

Good luck.

Take a look below.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Lots of good advise here. I use a 32 gal garbage can and put a black plastic bag inside. To keep the bag from being sucked into the cyclone,I have a scrap of P-lam bent around inside the bag in the can. This way I can take the lid off and lift the p-lam out, then gather the top of the bag, put a tie wrap on it and lift it out . Put another bag min and the p-lam and the lid back on ,ready to go.

Herb


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

"T" fittings connecting the machine runs to the main DC run decreases the efficiency of the unit as the 90* elbow/connection restricts the air and dust/chip flow.

"Y" fittings -- see link below -- provide a much more smoother transition to the main DC line, resulting in a more efficient transfer of air and dust into the main line. 

Y-Connector Dust Collection Fitting | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dustin; a 3/4HP motor is the issue. It's only able to spin an impeller of a very modest diameter; ie the airflow in cubic ft. per min. is relatively low.
You need a lot of air moving at a high velocity to carry larger chips, especially if they have to go up before coming back down, not to mention collecting the _very _fine particles
A 6" pipe is way to large for the size of impeller that a 3/4horse motor is able to drive. The velocity in the pipe will slow so much that the sawdust/chips will likely clog up it up.

Dust Collection Research - Blower

(Diag. from Pentz's link)


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Dustin..........I see that you're at about the same stage of planning that I am. I never would have thought that there was so much to consider in setting up a DC system. All the input that has come from your post is going to be very helpful to me, too. Like using a Y connector instead of a T. I'm bookmarking this thread as a guide. Thanks to all who have contributed knowledge, and I feel like it will help a lot of us.

One question I've had in mind is whether when using a 2 inch or so hose on a tool, if you should have additional ports in the 4 inch pipe open so the collector isn't being pulled down due to lack of input air. Any thoughts from anyone?


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

I have this DC, and I believe Dan has hit it on the head: I built a chip separator (30 gal), but quickly learned that 3/4 HP is just too small. I gave up on the separator and now try to be careful and not suck up large chips.

I did add the Cannister Filter, which works very well, and supposedly gets down to 1 micron.

I'm using the Rockler 4" expandable hose, which I bring to each machine. Rockler doesn't seem to carry this size any longer, in the expandable version.

Currently, I'm very tight on space. I like the idea of running fixed piping a lot better than the expandable hose, with gates for each, but I just don't have the room. I hope this isn't too disappointing, but once I get a bit more room, I'm going for a more powerful DC.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

... also, as Dan's Pentz diagram shows, you're not going to get much of the fine dust with this DC. So I wear a mask and use a Jet AFS-1000B air filter (but as others have mentioned in other threads, the Wen and Grizzly are other good options). The air filter is my hope to minimize fine dust getting to the rest of the house.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

furboo said:


> I have this DC, and I believe Dan has hit it on the head: I built a chip separator (30 gal), but quickly learned that 3/4 HP is just too small. I gave up on the separator and now try to be careful and not suck up large chips.
> 
> I did add the Cannister Filter, which works very well, and supposedly gets down to 1 micron.
> 
> ...


Rob if I built a garage , I'd install 4" abs in the concrete slab from the dust collector to the middle of the garage to provide dust collection at my table saw . 
This way I'm not tripping over a pipe all the time . I think I'd loose to much suction if I went overhead . That's what the owner of WP thinks anyways


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Rob if I built a garage , I'd install 4" abs in the concrete slab from the dust collector to the middle of the garage to provide dust collection at my table saw .


That sounds good Rick, but I don't know if I could commit to one location for the table saw and other tools for the life of the garage. A year ago I also had a chipmunk die in my dryer duct, the lesson being you probably need a way to clear out debris without resorting to a jackhammer.

I've designed a new garage/shop for my current house, but now my wife has decided she wants another house ... unless I can figure out how to design additional closet space for her, or sacrifice what's left of my own :frown:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes the location could be an issue alright . In my case it's know where I want it , but if I was just building , I suspect I wouldn't know . I guess as long as it's close ?

I think the lesson that I've learned is , you can never have too much CFM . I would go bigger if I did it again . Something strong enough to disturb low flying aircraft


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Since your run is 20' the 4" will be sufficient. Do not use "T's" you need to have some slope like a 45 to ease the air flow. The 6" is not overkill but I don't think you could feel the difference in a 20' line. Should be some cost savings also


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I've spent a lot on dust collection, starting with a home made solution and finally winding up with the 2hp Harbor Freight unit. I added a 1 micron canister filter to the one in the shop (12x24, but left the 5 micron bag on the one in the garage since I do limited wood prep there and can even roll the DC outside. Most of my early efforts at DC have been abandoned, except for the chip collector. I have two blowers that I have no takers for, one 1hp, the other is 2hp, oh yes, and a huge box of PVC fittings, all of which say they're 4 inch, but only a couple of which actually are. Nothing much fits, no inside or outside dimensions given. I suggest that everyone who gets started in woodworking get a DC unit rather than cobbled together parts, as soon as possible. If you took up flying, you'd make sure your plane was certified and worked well, take the same attitude toward woodworking and protect your health. That seems to be the lesson here.


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

If I had the money, my shop would have a floor built on top of the concrete floor that exists there now. It would have 2x6 joists that sat on the concrete and I would run my DC tubing under it. I'd also have a DC that was much bigger than I'll ever need, and it would be in a shed outside the shop to eliminate the noise. Guess I should buy more lottery tickets...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"A year ago I also had a chipmunk die in my dryer duct..."
-Rob

Rob; why did you put a (wet?) chipmunk in your dryer?


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Tom has a key point in that for the DC community, not all 4" fittings are 4" fittings. DC fittings from Rockler will not mate with the same from Woodcraft for example. So make certain you stick with the same manufacturer for piping etc. throughout the project or go for PVC or metal HVAC. Even then, you'll need to check those against the blast gates you're planning to use.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

JFPNCM said:


> Tom has a key point in that for the DC community, not all 4" fittings are 4" fittings. DC fittings from Rockler will not mate with the same from Woodcraft for example.


You got that right!


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

MT Stringer said:


> You got that right!


Mike: sounds like you've been down that path with the rest of us. :sad:


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Rob; why did you put a (wet?) chipmunk in your dryer?


Alvin kept singing "The Chipmunk Song" and was driving me crazy >


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Even within Rockler dust fittings, there's a difference between the regular 4" fittings and their "Dust Right" fittings.

I plumbed a cistern last summer with Schedule 40, and this page helped:

PVC and CPVC Pipes - Schedule 40 & 80

Do any dust fittings follow Schedule 40 sizes?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

kklowell said:


> If I had the money, my shop would have a floor built on top of the concrete floor that exists there now. It would have 2x6 joists that sat on the concrete and I would run my DC tubing under it..


Ken that's actually a good idea . A person could change the location if neccesary


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I had trouble matching up fittings to use 6 inch pipe, 5 inch hose, and 4 inch tool. I guess not being standard is part of the problem. I decided just to go from 6 inch pipe to 4 inch hose using all Woodcraft fittings. I would mail order but I don't want to get stuck with a fitting which won't work and needs to be mailed back.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> ... oh yes, and a huge box of PVC fittings, all of which say they're 4 inch, but only a couple of which actually are. Nothing much fits, no inside or outside dimensions given.


An FAQ with actual dimensions for fittings from Rockler, Woodcraft, etc. would be nice. For example:

Description, Part#, Dimensions
Rockler 4" to 2-1/4" Hose Reducer, 23486, 3.92" (3.65") to 2.26" (1.97")
Rockler 4" Elbow, 88527, 3.92" (3.72")

ID is in parens. I've got a few of the Rockler fittings, but I don't trust my measurements to better than 0.01".

The 2 fittings above are designed to attach to 4" (or 2-1/2") flexible hose. From the website I gave earlier, Sched 40 4" PVC is 4.500" (4.026"), but I don't have any to check the fit.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

It gets too hard to figure it out. The easiest is to just use one local vendor.

I do check the forums for help but people usually leave out small items like fittings. You see them but no mention as to where they came from.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Lots of really helpful info _here_ re fittings!
Dust Collection


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

coxhaus said:


> It gets too hard to figure it out. The easiest is to just use one local vendor.


You're probably right. But it might help tie in woodworking fittings to pvc or metal ductwork.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> Lots of really helpful info _here_ re fittings!
> Dust Collection


They have one of the fittings I need. The 5 inch to 4 inch. If it will work. I still need a 6 inch to 5 inch fitting.

Maybe eventually I will find them all.


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

coxhaus said:


> They have one of the fittings I need. The 5 inch to 4 inch. If it will work. I still need a 6 inch to 5 inch fitting.
> 
> Maybe eventually I will find them all.


Lee what kind of 6" to 5" are you looking for?


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

if you are going to use pic pipe, you should wrap it with a ground wire to prevent static electric discharge and possible a fire. I use a blue drum with a thien chip interceptor ahead of my dust collector,work's really well for my shop.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

whimsofchaz said:


> Lee what kind of 6" to 5" are you looking for?


I want to use 6 inch pvc light weight pipe. I think all 6 inch pvc pipe has the same inside diameter of 6 inches. I then want to add a 4 inch fitting for the tool end to a 5 inch hose. So I am looking for a 6 inch pipe to 5 inch hose fitting.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

jaody said:


> if you are going to use pic pipe, you should wrap it with a ground wire to prevent static electric discharge and possible a fire. I use a blue drum with a thien chip interceptor ahead of my dust collector,work's really well for my shop.


I go back and forth on this one. Do you think a DC for a small shop will have a static problem? At what HP rating is static electric discharge a problem? 

My Cincinnati fan unit is all metal on a metal 55 gal drum and my SDD is metal on a metal 55 gal drum so I think I just need to run a wire between them as my fan unit is grounded to the chassis.


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## RÖENTGEEP (Feb 18, 2014)

coxhaus said:


> I want to use 6 inch pvc light weight pipe. I think all 6 inch pvc pipe has the same inside diameter of 6 inches. I then want to add a 4 inch fitting for the tool end to a 5 inch hose. So I am looking for a 6 inch pipe to 5 inch hose fitting.


Lee, I have a 2HP DC and in my old shop I had 4 pvc pipe in the main line and in my new shop I installed 6 inch metal pipe with the similar tools and distances, and I loose efficiency . So think it better with you 3/4 HP DC, so the answer is that 6" is overkill.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

JFPNCM said:


> Tom has a key point in that for the DC community, not all 4" fittings are 4" fittings. DC fittings from Rockler will not mate with the same from Woodcraft for example. So make certain you stick with the same manufacturer for piping etc. throughout the project or go for PVC or metal HVAC. Even then, you'll need to check those against the blast gates you're planning to use.


The fittings have posed the biggest problem I have encountered in setting up my dc. It is really difficult to get the parts needed without making multiple trips to the woodstore. I usually go to Wood Werks which has a very small Rockler store and a very limited supply of fittings. Buy and try is the best advice I can give because 4" doesn't always equal 4" or any of the other sizes for that matter.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

I've found diagraming the system with both ID and OD measures for each junction has facilitated trips to the store. But even with that list in hand I've drawn blanks on many a trip.
Hopefully Rockler will take the parts back 

I mentioned this issue to a manager at a local wood store and he shook his head and said no one would apreciate standardization in that area more than we would.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

With PVC you can make your own adaptor. Heat the PVC carefully with a soldering torch. Keep the flame moving or you will brown the pipe. Once its soft and pliable slip it over the fitting you want it to go on. 

You generally can only go smaller to bigger.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

PS You can make sweep elbows this way too. You will need something with the radius you want to GENTLY bend it around.

Oh BTW heavy gloves are essential. The pipe is hot when its pliable.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

hunterguy86 said:


> So 6" is overkill?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Im wondering is 6" would slow down the velocity of the air creating problems with proper flow?
You would think there is a point of no return


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

coxhaus said:


> I go back and forth on this one. Do you think a DC for a small shop will have a static problem? At what HP rating is static electric discharge a problem?
> 
> My Cincinnati fan unit is all metal on a metal 55 gal drum and my SDD is metal on a metal 55 gal drum so I think I just need to run a wire between them as my fan unit is grounded to the chassis.


This has been debated again and again.... I DO NOT claim to be an expert on the subject, but I think erring on the side of caution can't hurt. And, I don't think the HP of your DC will have any bearing on the static. Static can cause a fire, and sawdust is very flammable, hence the need for grounding to dissipate the static.

Google "static electricity and dust collection" returns a lot of hits on this subject.


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Im wondering is 6" would slow down the velocity of the air creating problems with proper flow?
> You would think there is a point of no return


Yes. As you say, the air speed goes down with a bigger diameter pipe, which means it won't carry dust and chips as well and will be more apt to clog. But this lower speed also means less air drag (friction with the air) in the pipe, so a given motor will be able to pump through more air (larger CFM). It's a trade off.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I also don't know if the slower velocity would keep the chips and dust aloft or not.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*$22Cdn*

Anemometer | Princess Auto

Key to the issue is knowing the _airspeed._


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

billyjim said:


> The fittings have posed the biggest problem I have encountered in setting up my dc. It is really difficult to get the parts needed without making multiple trips to the woodstore. I usually go to Wood Werks which has a very small Rockler store and a very limited supply of fittings. Buy and try is the best advice I can give because 4" doesn't always equal 4" or any of the other sizes for that matter.


Billyjim, and coxhaus, here is the answer to your adaptor problems http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/106218-make-your-dust-collection-fittings.html


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I also don't know if the slower velocity would keep the chips and dust aloft or not.


Slower doesn't help this keep the chips & dust aloft.


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