# Adjustable angle horizontal router table



## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

I've been giving some thought to building a horizontal router table and it just hit me today out in the shop today that I have a 10 inch radial arm saw sitting there gathering dust.
Has anyone ever tried to use a radial arm to make an adjustable table?I realize that it's only 3450rpm but could I feed slower and make it work? The saw tips from 0degrees to 90 degrees so that part would be ideal. Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me.
Maybe cheap old retired guys just have too much time to think!
Regards. Dennis


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Dennis.

This question comes up from time to time.

"could I feed slower and make it work?" IMO, no, the speed is way too slow for a router which needs to spin 12,000 to 22,000 RPM.

Some old RAS's have a shaft out the other end that spins at 20,000 RPM?


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi James-thanks
That was kind of my guess.I imagine my next plan will be to mount a PC 690 in the carriage and use a speed control.Before I Retired we did some steel and aluminum fabricating also and have the equipment in the big shop so it shouldn't be too tough.
Thanks again Dennis


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

From one of those old guys - they used to sell them that way. one was a router adapter (Popular mechanics, page 50, January 1970 - Google), pm, Sept 1977 - Dewalt 770, etc there about a dozen citations and the reason it failed was probably expense (sell one you do not need the others or complexity) or on YouTube - conversion of an old radial-arm saw to an overhead pin router.

But go ahead your guy, repeat the failures of our youth - Baker

ps, I was always taught to seek the answer on my own before I turned to others for solutions and all we had was the library.

Hope this helps - Baker


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## Dr Neon (Apr 15, 2010)

Hi Dennis. There are several YouTube videos showing how various folks rigged their's up. Most of them just pulled the motor off the RAS, and replaced it with a bracket to (very securely) mount their 690 or whatever router. By raising and lowering the saw bed you have plunge action. Sliding the mount in and out gives you 'Y' axis. Turn the mount sideways, and set up to slide the workpiece, and you have 'X' axis. I'd love to have one. Just don't have the space.
Tim


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

BobJ3 has a router mounted on one of his radial arm saws... on the bracket designed for this use. I am surprised BJ hasn't already chimed in on this thread.


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

I have an old Montgomery Ward Radial Arm Saw, early 70's vintage, that I got from my dad that has the 20,000 RPM router shaft. The collet will only accept 1/4 shaft bits. I never use this saw due to space but have kept it with the idea to play with the router setup for dados and such but am concerned about using a 1/4 inch bit for that big a cut. The collets for this saw is extremely hard to find and goes for more than you can sell the saw for so I feel fortunate that my dad still had this accessory. It also has a 3450 RPM shaft for a drill chuck but I don't have that accessory. I will have to check out the u-tube videos and see how I can make use if this. It's the only reason I kept the saw.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

The RAS is a great tool like for a pin router setup but not for a horizontal router table setup ,the older wards works well for a router table setup but only if you have the one that will spin the bit at 20.000 rpm///>>> if not it's to low on HP and speed..and it's fine with 1/4" bits you find almost all router bits in the 1/4" shank size..

It's not the size of your tool it's how you can use it..like most things in life..

===


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi Bobj3
Many thanks to you and the others for all the info-much appreciated.I'm going to do some more head scratching and see what happens.
Dennis


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

richjh said:


> I have an old Montgomery Ward Radial Arm Saw, early 70's vintage, that I got from my dad that has the 20,000 RPM router shaft. The collet will only accept 1/4 shaft bits. I never use this saw due to space but have kept it with the idea to play with the router setup for dados and such but am concerned about using a 1/4 inch bit for that big a cut. The collets for this saw is extremely hard to find and goes for more than you can sell the saw for so I feel fortunate that my dad still had this accessory. It also has a 3450 RPM shaft for a drill chuck but I don't have that accessory. I will have to check out the u-tube videos and see how I can make use if this. It's the only reason I kept the saw.


I have a Monkey Wards Powerkraft RAS (1968? TPC2610C)... I took my armature shaft out and had the 20,000 aux end machined from the original male 15/32 20tpi down to 7/16 20tpi.

I had a Porter Cable 890 router that fried an armature. I took armature shaft out of it, cut it down and had it machine to female 7/16 20tpi. With that screwed onto the 20,000 rpm aux shaft as an adapter, I use the PC router chuck and collets. So now I can do 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" bits. I keep it down to bits with a diameter 1" and smaller... as anything bigger would fry the bits. (no way to lower the speed...)

It was cheaper to have things machined down to 7/16" 20tpi than to have a custom 15/32 20tpi tap made!!! (To connect to an adapter...) 

But I use the 1340 aux shaft for shaper cutter heads and the regular 1340 blade shaft for molding cutter heads and dado blades.

What helped for me, was raising/spacing the column up an additional 1-1/2" higher above the base. That way I had more vertical travel. It now works good as an overhead router. I have more accurate specialized tools, but nothing that is as versatile. I keep it around to "match" profiles for restoration carpentry.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

hi Mike

How about some pictures would love to see it.. ????

===


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> hi Mike
> 
> How about some pictures would love to see it.. ????
> 
> ===


Will take some this afternoon and post. At the moment, running out the door to go into town to get some car parts that were ordered and came in. (Hydro-boost brake assist.)

(And embarrassed to admit that I have stuff piled on top RAS Table while doing another project... LOL)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

2 first 2 photo's with the chuck adapter at different angles. 

3rd is after a couple quick cuts. Only had a few minutes to spare between working on the truck and car. Other wise I would have set it up better... but you get the idea. 

The shaft being somewhat long helps the power unit to clear at an angle. Work, you have to clamp to the table and move the power unit. Too bulky to get too detailed a work because of the weight you are moving. (the power unit)


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Thanks Mike

=


MAFoElffen said:


> 2 first 2 photo's with the chuck adapter at different angles.
> 
> 3rd is after a couple quick cuts. Only had a few minutes to spare between working on the truck and car. Other wise I would have set it up better... but you get the idea.
> 
> The shaft being somewhat long helps the power unit to clear at an angle. Work, you have to clamp to the table and move the power unit. Too bulky to get too detailed a work because of the weight you are moving. (the power unit)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Thanks Mike
> 
> =


No-- Thank you Bob! 

When I first got here, I was asking you the same questions on how to do it with my RAS. You had sold your router adapter and I couldn't find one.

After talking to you about my "ideas", this is what I came up with. I think it's all in those old threads. So you had a part in it's creation.

A couple things I can say about it. It throws chips and shavings everywhere!!! (even with DC). It is not as quiet or as smooth as a router, but it gets the job done.


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi again Guys
Thanks for sharing the info. I have an extra ras motor so I pulled it apart an the aluminum casting that fits into the yoke that allows it to swivel is also shaped like a yoke.It nearly fits the router motor. There won't be much machining to make it fit perfectly.Then it should work as a pin router or I should be able to turn an use it for a horizontal router for loose tenions etc.Also I'm trying to figure out a movable bed so I can shift 45 degrees or any angle.
If it works it should open up a lot of possibilities - any configuration the ras was capable of.
As it goes along I will take some pictures and try to post them if it doesn't make me look like a complete da!
Keep making sawdust-Dennis


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

64 ford said:


> Hi again Guys
> Thanks for sharing the info. I have an extra ras motor so I pulled it apart an the aluminum casting that fits into the yoke that allows it to swivel is also shaped like a yoke.It nearly fits the router motor. There won't be much machining to make it fit perfectly.Then it should work as a pin router or I should be able to turn an use it for a horizontal router for loose tenions etc.Also I'm trying to figure out a movable bed so I can shift 45 degrees or any angle.
> If it works it should open up a lot of possibilities - any configuration the ras was capable of.
> As it goes along I will take some pictures and try to post them if it doesn't make me look like a complete da!
> Keep making sawdust-Dennis


Dennis--

I'm thinking with the experience of doing what I did, versus what I would do if I did it again...

I'm thinking if you are doing away with the 'heavy' Power Unit (PU)... for instance, if the motor in the power unit was dead... That if I just wanted it to be an overhead router, that it might be better to do away with the PU altogether and replace it with a "supported" router. The motor of a router is much lighter and would make things more agile, accurate and easier to move around, resulting in better detail work (than what I ended up with).

Making a new mount fro the old PU or building a new one? I think building something new to replace the whole PU. Then you would have less work and machining if you started from scratch. It you came up with a "mount" that spanned between the "round rings" that are used to mound the power unit in the yoke. You would just offset where then router plate was for room for the router to clear the yoke... But what you end up with is the router sits normally with the collet perpendicular to the table, instead of the RAS power shaft's normal position, where it's shafts sit horizontal to it's table while in it's normal 0 degree position.

That mount could just be like a router plate in a router table. Except that the plate is pivoted in the yoke by those 2 rings. At least, that is how I see it.

That way, a router replaces that heavy PU. That way a router gets good air flow and is easily accessible. That way the movement laterally and tilting is the same as the "normal" cutting surface of the RAS (the saw blade).. The problem I have on mine, is that the router function itself is from 90 degrees tilt... Meaning you turn it from 0, clockwise to 90 degrees, to get the router bit perpendicular to the table. 
*** So on mine, from there, it only tilts to the right. It starts at 90 counter clockwise to 0 degrees... where it is horizontal... 
--- Doing it as I describe it this post, it would tilt both ways.

So, originally, it is a misunderstanding to think that an RAS with a router adapter (on it's AUX shafts) tilts both ways. This presents a problem of it's own. If you try to get a reverse angle by putting the work to the other side of the bit and by pulling the yoke out... then you put yourself in the path of a kickback!!!

Of course, that is also a matter of perspective, I can pivot the yoke around to reverse my PU, so I can tilt the other way, but that puts the power switch of the PU towards the "rear"... where that presents it's own safety concerns. (I have another remote "safety stop switch" to get around that.) But in doing that, that also puts the tilt controls to the rear also... so I have to first set the tilt, then pivot the yoke 180 degree's... 

So, if I was to do it again, I think if I had a dead RAS and was looking to only have an overhead router function from it, that is what I would do. As for "horizontal" if you are looking to be have a horizontal router function from there, then you build a horizontal table for the material to be on when the router is turned horizontally The original table position would be too low.

I think if I had a dead RAS and was looking to only have an overhead router function from it, that is what I would do. As for "horizontal" if you are looking to be have a horizontal router function from there, then you build a horizontal table for the material to be on when the router is turned horizontally The original table position would be too low.

If you shared a sketch of what you are thinking, maybe BJ and I could see what you are thinking and we might be able to confirm if that is going to work like you want it to or not. Sometimes another perspective is better than one.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

One thing I didn't mention... Is that if you put a hole in your RAS table for the bits, that you can use it as a somewhat normal router table. But the profile is going to be reversed for it. I also use my shaper cutters this way. 

I do this with most of the relief cut in the second table section and use a two piece fence between those table sections (to shield the bit). Instead of moving the fence, you move the PU with the bit or cutter. (And slide the work along the fence, respective of the bit's direction of travel.)

Bob- 
Wouldn't a "Pin Router" really be a misnomer for that application? 

A pin router is a fixed router with a pin directly above or below the bit. Where the pin is used to guide a template or pattern, so cutting the attached material to that pattern... That is my understanding of what a "Pin Router" is.

My experience with this RAS-router application, is if you don't have the work mounted to the table and rather try to move the work past the bit... without something to shield the bit and support the work... the work gets thrown (kick-back) and/or there is the potential for the hands to get drawn into the bit. Just saying...

If you have a working RAS- There's still the option of using a molder cutter in place of the saw blade.


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Mike
I have a larger than average shop so I have a 14 inch DeWalt ras(1952 model) that stays very accurate which makes the sears expendable.The sears has two pu's- long story about personal stupidity.Anyway,I tore one apart and came up with the casting I would like to mount the router motor in. It will only take a small amount of machining to make the router motor fit into.The armature will be 90 degrees to what the one in the ras was but it will in the yoke any direction so it should be usable.I believe it can be locked directly over a pin so it should work like a pin router- I hope!
The table on the ras will have to extended left and right to allow the raised horizontal table to move to both sides on a track so mortises can be made on miters either way. I have some small air cylinders I'm hoping to use for hold downs.
I'm not very computer literate so I don't know how to put sketches on here. I will take pictures as it goes and have someone help me post them.I hope some of my explanation makes sense without the sketches.I was a commercial building superintendent and built a lot of buildings from blue prints but never got much good at drawing myself.
I appreciate all the help and info and all the time you' ve taken to explain things.
Dennis


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