# Need Info On A Riving Knife



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I am wondering if I can install a riving knife on my TS or not. When I installed Incra's LS fence positioning system I was unable to use the blade guard due to the fact that it needed to be attached by using the parts required to install the fence that came with the saw.

In Incra's video demo done by Mark Mueller there is no guard on the saw and, I am pretty sure, no riving knife. I am wondering if one can be installed on my saw or not. After my short time at wood working, the issue of safety has become more and more apparent. I try to be csreful, so far, no injurys. I acquired the magnetic feather board and that was a good move. I try to alway stand to the side of the blade as often as is possible, but having a riving knife or a splitter seems like a good idea. Since I'm probably going to have to wait to buy a "SAW STOP" for a while if ever, I'm looking for ways to make my current saw safer. I am and have been since day one, trying form good habits, one of which is to not get in a hurry and each time that I make a cut tell myself that if I'm not careful with this cut I can get hurt real bad, this just makes me keep my mind on what I am doing and keeps me from making any fast and/or false moves. 

The photos seen below are in reference to some issues visited in posts to this thread. The posts are a bit mixed up and confusing. I found, or think that I found that photos can't be added to a post, only at the beginning of a new thread. I that isn't right let me know.

Jerry Bowen
Colorado City, TX


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## J. Leigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Well you're on the right track as a riving knife is probably the safest addition you can have on any table saw. And you don't have to buy a Sawstop to get one. Many cabinet saws, hybrids and even contractor saws now include factory riving knives.
There are some aftermarket "riving knife" types out there in various forms. Not sure how well they work.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am wondering if I can install a riving knife on my TS or not. When I installed Incra's LS fence positioning system I was unable to use the blade guard due to the fact that it needed to be attached by using the parts required to install the fence that came with the saw.
> 
> In Incra's video demo done by Mark Mueller there is no guard on the saw and, I am pretty sure, no riving knife. I am wondering if one can be installed on my saw or not. After my short time at wood working, the issue of safety has become more and more apparent. I try to be csreful, so far, no injurys. I acquired the magnetic feather board and that was a good move. I try to alway stand to the side of the blade as often as is possible, but having a riving knife or a splitter seems like a good idea. Since I'm probably going to have to wait to buy a "SAW STOP" for a while if ever, I'm looking for ways to make my current saw safer. I am and have been since day one, trying form good habits, one of which is to not get in a hurry and each time that I make a cut tell myself that if I'm not careful with this cut I can get hurt real bad, this just makes me keep my mind on what I am doing and keeps me from making any fast and/or false moves.
> 
> ...


(Fade In) _So a man walks into a woodworking product demo video set and says I need to show my customers my product, but to see the full picture, I need to remove some of the safety equipment..._ His saw probably was equipt with those, but removed for the demo. If so, it should have been noted so there was no confusion.

Yours? What did it have originally? Riving knife or spliter? None? Does the throat of you blade insert have room for a riving knife? Does your blade height mechanism have anything raising with the blade additional to the blade itself (where a riving knife could mount to)?


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## argoknot (Dec 7, 2009)

What make is your TS? There are several different riving knives out there. I made my own zero clearance insert with a knife attached.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

Jerry said:


> I am and have been since day one, trying form good habits, one of which is to not get in a hurry and each time that I make a cut tell myself that if I'm not careful with this cut I can get hurt real bad.


A great way to approach it. I also try to continually remind myself of the reason why I need to be 100% sure that I am being safe and cautious.

Jerry, I asked this question a while back as well and the answer I came away with was that if your TS did not come with a riving knife as part of the design of the saw, one usually cannot be added. 

But if you have a zero clearance insert, they can often be modified to support a splitter. 

The big downside to a splitter as opposed to a riving knife is when (if) you need to do a cut at an angle other than 90*, the splitter would need to be removed. Other than that, as far as I know, a splitter performs the same function.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> A great way to approach it. I also try to continually remind myself of the reason why I need to be 100% sure that I am being safe and cautious.
> 
> Jerry, I asked this question a while back as well and the answer I came away with was that if your TS did not come with a riving knife as part of the design of the saw, one usually cannot be added.
> 
> ...


Third that. That's what I build into my inserts for my 40 yo Rockwell... just high enough to keep a kerf open through a sled, but just low enough to do most of my crown cuts and dado's.

But as I remember, don't you have a fairly recent Craftsman Saw (less than 20 years old) of some quality (not a bargain model)? Did your's come with a splitter that attached at the rear of the saw, tilted with the blade mechanisms, had anti-kickback cogs and a blade guard... Did the original safety equipment no longer work or fit because it didn't go around the rear fence guide of your Incra TS fence?


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Third that. That's what I build into my inserts for my 40 yo Rockwell... just high enough to keep a kerf open through a sled, but just low enough to do most of my crown cuts and dado's.
> 
> But as I remember, don't you have a fairly recent Craftsman Saw (less than 20 years old) of some quality (not a bargain model)? Did your's come with a splitter that attached at the rear of the saw, tilted with the blade mechanisms, had anti-kickback cogs and a blade guard... Did the original safety equipment no longer work or fit because it didn't go around the rear fence guide of your Incra TS fence?


Mike, I am pretty sure your questions about the brand of saw and other things like how the splitter is connected and such are directed to Jerry, not me.

If they were for me though, my TS is a very basic, bare bones Skil 3400 with a splitter that attaches at the back and tilts when the blade is tilted. It took some work to get it aligned properly, but it is now in line and seems to perform its role adequately.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

J. Leigh said:


> Well you're on the right track as a riving knife is probably the safest addition you can have on any table saw. And you don't have to buy a Sawstop to get one. Many cabinet saws, hybrids and even contractor saws now include factory riving knives.


Hi Joe

I can only agree with you there. I'd go a bit further and say that with a riving knife or splitter, a crown guard and a rip fence plate (which stops at the gullet of the front teeth) you can avoid many of the kickback accidents which occur. Add long push sticks with birds mouths and you're a lot safer. Much of this stuff needn't be expensive. A home-made splitter can be added to the zero-clearance insert, a rip fence plate needs be nothing more than a plywood or melamine offcut, and push sticks are just straight grained 2 x 1in softwood with the edges rounded and notches sawn in one end. The only item which costs anything is the crown guard, and even that can be home-made for buttons as this article shows

To quote from the article, _"Typically, European fences stop just past the front of the blade. Hence, there is no fence behind the blade to cause the wood to bind. Such a system is inherently safer with regard to kickback. The Unifence, on the Delta Unisaw, has a sliding fence face that can be retracted to the European position, but most American saw fences do not provide that feature." Of course, even a front position fence, sometimes called a ripping fence here in the U.S., does not entirely prevent kickback, so a good splitter or riving knife is considered essential._ 

Stay safe!

Regards

Phil


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

argoknot said:


> What make is your TS? There are several different riving knives out there. I made my own zero clearance insert with a knife attached.


John, if you have warchng my posts and/or threads, you know that I don't do short answers or questions. The saw is a Craftsman. I am told that it was built by a man that worked for Delta and started his own company. I know that when buying an insert I have to buy one for a Delta saw. Also, I don't see it in Sears list of table saws anymore. It was suggested to me by Mark Mueller of Incra Tools. 

Jerry


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> When I installed Incra's LS fence positioning system I was unable to use the blade guard due to the fact that it needed to be attached by using the parts required to install the fence that came with the saw.


Not entirely sure what you mean Jerry but INCRA does spell out that you need to cut the back fence to accommodate the older type splitter system. Alternatively and depending on the shape of the splitter, you could cut away the offending part of the splitter to allow it to fit over the back fence.

Having said all that, I strongly recommend purchasing a MicroJig Steel Splitter that will need to be fitted into a new Zero Clearance insert. This will work wonders for all 90 degree cuts.

Hope I'm not completely off track here.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

cagenuts said:


> Having said all that, I strongly recommend purchasing a MicroJig Steel Splitter that will need to be fitted into a new Zero Clearance insert. This will work wonders for all 90 degree cuts.
> 
> Hope I'm not completely off track here.


They work well no matter the cross cut angle as it is inline with the blade.

Any splitter/riving knife must not be thicker(a few thousandths narrower is good) than the blade being used. You can not use an 1/8 riving knife with a thin kerf blade. Many manufactures have thinner riving knives available.

There are third party makers of add on kits for some saw models, Jerry. A google search for add-on riving knife should find what you are looking for. They are rather expensive and may require modification/drilling in order to install.


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## argoknot (Dec 7, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> John, if you have warchng my posts and/or threads, you know that I don't do short answers or questions. The saw is a Craftsman. I am told that it was built by a man that worked for Delta and started his own company. I know that when buying an insert I have to buy one for a Delta saw. Also, I don't see it in Sears list of table saws anymore. It was suggested to me by Mark Mueller of Incra Tools.
> 
> Jerry


I don't watch anyone's posts in particular. Sometimes a short post is all you need. My TS is a craftsman 30+ years old.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry-
This link came up in another thread I was in. After visiting it and looking what they do (SharkGuard), You might be interested in visiting it and seeing if it applies to your saw.

Leeway Workshop, LLC


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder ,Mike. That system is brilliant; pretty much addresses all my complaints with the OEM splitter/guard/anti-kickback!
SGK1 Splitter equipped table saw blade guard - YouTube


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

DaninVan said:


> Thanks for the reminder ,Mike. That system is brilliant; pretty much addresses all my complaints with the OEM splitter/guard/anti-kickback!
> SGK1 Splitter equipped table saw blade guard - YouTube



Thanks for that, Dan.

That gave me some ideas for replacing the hardware on my splitter/guard assembly.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I try to alway stand to the side of the blade as often as is possible, but having a riving knife or a splitter seems like a good idea.
> I am and have been since day one, trying form good habits, one of which is to not get in a hurry and each time that I make a cut tell myself that if I'm not careful with this cut I can get hurt real bad


No. Do not 'try' to always stand to the side of the blade, you 'do' stand to the side of the blade, always. 
I've used a riving knife/splitter, but found it more of a pain than a help. Working safely is far more important to my mind.
Got that right, safe work habits can't be beat.


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## UlrichJ (Feb 16, 2012)

I second the MJ Pro splitter. Most of my cuts are 90 degrees and the splitter works great


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

JOAT said:


> No. Do not 'try' to always stand to the side of the blade, you 'do' stand to the side of the blade, always.
> I've used a riving knife/splitter, but found it more of ae pain than a help. Working safely is far more important to my mind.
> Got that right, safe work habits can't be beat.


Theo,
In regard to developing safe work habits, as I noted earlier in this thread, Mark Mueller of Incra Tools does not ever use the safety freatures such as the items that are being discussed here. I am inclined to agree with you and as I said I decided to go that route when I got my first saw three years ago or so. 

I am confused about the first sentence in your reply, about sending to the side, can you clear that up for me. Standing to the side would keep you out of the path of a kick back most of the time, but not getting a kick back is the best idea, right?

Jerry


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am confused about the first sentence in your reply, about sending to the side, can you clear that up for me. Standing to the side would keep you out of the path of a kick back most of the time, but not getting a kick back is the best idea, right?
> 
> Jerry


Jerry, I believe Theo's point was taking an exception to your word 'TRY.'. Trying is not enough, you must ALWAYS stand out of the line of fire.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Big Steve said:


> Jerry, I believe Theo's point was taking an exception to your word 'TRY.'. Trying is not enough, you must ALWAYS stand out of the line of fire.


Steve, after I re read the issue, it made since of course but I had already sent the post, just didn't read it right the first time. Maybe it comes from haveing so many birthdJays, who knows, but the idea is correct, not try to do it every time, just do it every time.

Jerry


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Reminded me of the Yoda quote:
_"Yoda: No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try. "_


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Just for the sake of safety and discussion pertinent to this thread:
Fight Kickback with a Riving Knife - Fine Woodworking Video


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

JOAT said:


> No. Do not 'try' to always stand to the side of the blade, you 'do' stand to the side of the blade, always.


Hi Theo

You're spot on there. There is no "try" in it if you don't want to get injured some day



JOAT said:


> I've used a riving knife/splitter, but found it more of a pain than a help. Working safely is far more important to my mind.


I see this written time and again on American fora and I've come to the conclusion tha there must be somethng wrong with the design of American saws; actually the design of some splitters on contractor saws seems downright crude. 

I was taught many, many years ago that a riving knife is a must, a crown guard is a must, a short-positioned rip fence is a must (all now mandatory on new saws over here), a run-off support table is a must as are TWO 18in long push sticks. If you have those and use them properly you'll get very few kickbacks, ever. 

The riving knife prevents work from closing up around the rising teeth of the saw

The crown guard acts more as a visible warning of where the blade is so you don't put your hand on it (falling forwards as the result of a kickback unbalancing you is a common accident), it also takes a lot of the energy out of a kickback if one occurs and more or less stops the timber from being ejected upwards.

A short rip fence (or add-on plate) is used to prevent diverging material being trapped between the fence and the blade and beig pushed back onto the rising teeth because it has nowhere else to go - the main reason I don't like Biesmeyer-type fences. 

The run-off table supports work as it leaves the saw. If you don't have a saw helper this is a must with anything longer than 18in or so. There are a large number of saw accidents which result from the work dropping on the outfeed side, hitting the teeth and being launched. If that happens a riving knife and crown guard will help defend you, but avoiding it in the first place is obviously much safer

The push sticks with birdsmouth notches are meant to keep your hands at least 12in away from the blade at all times. On those rare occasions I experience a kickback it is invariably down to operator error.

Note for Jerry: Timber can contain stresses which cause it to diverge or close together when ripped down as stresses in the fibres are released. The worst stuff I've ever sawn was black walnut which half-way down a 6ft rip would clamp itself tenaciously around the riving knife on the (20in 10HP) rip saw. I'm pretty sure that without the standard working procedure I adopted it would have had me at some point or other in the coarse of the job.

It's all about risk reduction. Work safely!

Regards

Phil


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Phil, when you mention a short rip fence, are you talking about something like this?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

cagenuts said:


> Phil, when you mention a short rip fence, are you talking about something like this?


Hi Hilton

Yes, that's pretty much it. The rip fence plate you show can be adjusted back and forth so that the far end of the fence jjust overlaps the teeth of the blade by a small amount. Inexperienced wood machinists often think this means that they'll have no support for the material as you make the cut, but for the last part of the cut the push needs to be from the rear onf the cut. It takes a little practice, but it is much safer. The only time you push the plate to the rear of the blade is when you need to trim a small amount off a piece, say a 1/8in (3.2mm) trim cut. In that case the main body of the work will not move and the waste piece will fall away from the left side of the blade readily

Interesting that the fence plate you show looks like the Hi-Lo style. It is normally set-up in the Hi mode as your illustration shows, but when you need to rip very narrow pieces, particularly bevel rips then the rip fence plate is turned thrugh 90° to leaae the Lo fence nearest the saw. This allows you to make a very narrow rip without fouling the crown guard

Regards

Phil


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Phil P said:


> Interesting that the fence plate you show looks like the Hi-Lo style. It is normally set-up in the Hi mode as your illustration shows, but when you need to rip very narrow pieces, particularly bevel rips then the rip fence plate is turned thrugh 90° to leaae the Lo fence nearest the saw. This allows you to make a very narrow rip without fouling the crown guard


You've now made me think about attaching my band saw fence to my table saw rip fence as it's the same hi-lo configuration and not that long.

Thanks!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I am confused about the first sentence in your reply, about sending to the side, can you clear that up for me. Standing to the side would keep you out of the path of a kick back most of the time, but not getting a kick back is the best idea, right?


Yes, I won't guarantee it would keep you out of the path of a kickback 100% of the time, but close to it at any rate. And, yes, not getting a kickback at all is the goal. I'm 71, started taking shop in the 4th grade (different times), power tool use started in the 9th grade, table saw in the 10th. The shop instructor showed us what a kickback was, how they were caused, and how to avoid them. My step-grandfather was what is considered a master carpenter now, and I helped him a lot. In all that time the only kickback I can recall is the one the shop instructor caused - and that was intentional. So something stuck.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jerry, since you do enjoy doing your homework... this is just another consideration. 

The BORK Store


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Jerry, since you do enjoy doing your homework... this is just another consideration.
> 
> The BORK Store


Bill,
Now that I have MASTERED all other facets of wood working in my three year career, I guess that it's about time that I learn how to master some hand tools. 

Don't we wish that it were that simple, but then what would the challenge be. I can't imagine a more interestesting and/or challenging endeavor than woodworking. 

Jerry


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Jerry, since you do enjoy doing your homework... this is just another consideration.
> 
> The BORK Store


Bill,

That's kind of cool, and it fits my saw.... thanks for finding that one, I'll have to give it a little more thought.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

It's all good brother,, its all good 

bill

btw... you're gonna love hand tools 



Jerry Bowen said:


> Bill,
> Now that I have MASTERED all other facets of wood working in my three year career, I guess that it's about time that I learn how to master some hand tools.
> 
> Don't we wish that it were that simple, but then what would the challenge be. I can't imagine a more interestesting and/or challenging endeavor than woodworking.
> ...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Doug...

I can't speak first hand on the Bork rivving knife, but I can tell you that from what I have read by others, his product is very well built, well designed and well thought of. 

I saw these when he first came out with them. He must be doing something right,, appears to be doing well by them..

bill




kp91 said:


> Bill,
> 
> That's kind of cool, and it fits my saw.... thanks for finding that one, I'll have to give it a little more thought.


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