# Finishing painted signs, first timer Help please



## ColoChris (Sep 29, 2007)

Hello and thank you so much for your time.

So I have been working with cedar and redwood lumber and after an initial test run of some routered signs which were painted, I put 1 coat of a helmsman or something like that spar urathane ( spelling wrong I know, sorry the can is outside) Anyways, after an hour or so it was not like how it looked when I first put it on. At first it was glossy and looked nice, yet after a while it like soaked into the wood and is now sticky to the touch. 

What do I need to do differently? I sanded the sign with a 120 grit paper and then applied the first coat. Now maybe I am using the wrong stuff and I need to use just a poly on it. I do like the natural color, so a clear coat that is slick to the touch would be great. But do I need a bunch of coats to get it that way, or maybe I am using the wrong stuff?

I do not have access to many things except for what is at the box stores.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.

ColoChris


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Are you looking for a glossy surface for your sign? What you used (spar varnish) is an excellent varnish for exterior use. Usually the first coat for any finish will look wet when applied and get's soaked up into the wood. It's basicially a seal coat. Let it dry throughly, usually over night. Having not used spar varnish before I am not sure of it's properties but it is still a varnish so I am sure you will have to sand lightly with a higher grit...320 or 400 ( not steel wool) and then reapply for a more gloss finish. Should be able to build up a finish this say. Be sure to let each coat dry well over night and then reapply and let the finial coats cure. 

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi ColoChris

Try this..
Pickup some Shellac at the HD and use it to seal the wood then let it dry and then put your clear coat(s) on it..


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi ColoChris
> 
> Try this..
> Pickup some Shellac at the HD and use it to seal the wood then let it dry and then put your clear coat(s) on it..
> ...


Norm uses this for a lot of his projects  Bob, won't the first coat he has applied pretty much act as a sealer if allowed to dry?

corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Corey

cedar and redwood are funny stuff, it just keeps on drinking it in...but I'm sure in time it will seal it..  they do make some great wood sealers but they are not cheap...like Shellac 



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## ColoChris (Sep 29, 2007)

ok so after the Shellac, do I need to stay with any certain clear coats? Like can I use poly on it? Or use that helmsman spar urathane stuff? (can still outside= spelling bad)

So I take it that the shellac will seal the board, then a clear coat will just dress it up for the final product?

I know I have a lot to learn about all of this.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Chris

If you are lucky jerrymayfield ( a forum member) will see this and give you and hand.. 

If not take a look at the link below

http://www.routerforums.com/finishing-touch/4995-finishing-cedar.html

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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

I agree to use shellac first it is an excellent barrier against water vapor. Any clear finish that is used outside will need to be renewed every year or two. The worst finish for outdoor use is varnish made with urethane(polyurethane) resin it starts to yellow quickly and loses adhesion almost as quickly.Spar varnish is a long oil varnish that originally was used on the spars of sailing ships and isn't bad for that purpose since it was renewed atleast yearly. In my opinion Helmsman spar urethane is one of the worst finishes ever hyped to the public. There are a few finishes the will last a little longer outside,but none of them are inexpensive. Its hard to beat paint for outdoor use.

Regards

Jerry


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## ColoChris (Sep 29, 2007)

jerrymayfield said:


> I agree to use shellac first it is an excellent barrier against water vapor. Any clear finish that is used outside will need to be renewed every year or two. The worst finish for outdoor use is varnish made with urethane(polyurethane) resin it starts to yellow quickly and loses adhesion almost as quickly.Spar varnish is a long oil varnish that originally was used on the spars of sailing ships and isn't bad for that purpose since it was renewed atleast yearly. In my opinion Helmsman spar urethane is one of the worst finishes ever hyped to the public. There are a few finishes the will last a little longer outside,but none of them are inexpensive. Its hard to beat paint for outdoor use.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jerry








Thank you so much. Would you have any suggestions of a good clear coat that will look nice for a final product that I might be able to get at a box store?

I live in Colorado, but in the country. I can get to some other places like Denver, but I have no idea of what to put on.

So would I put just one coat of the shellac on, let dry and then put on the clear coat? or do you think multiple coats is better of the Shellac?


Thank you so much for your time and trouble.

ColoChris


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

As a universal sealer use one application of a two pound cut of shellac(blond or super blond adds very little color and is color fast) if you want to add some color use one of the less refined grades such as garnet,orange or seedlac. I have tried clear paint base-outdoor- (for the darkest color ) and it lasted three years before it had to be redone. Right now I'm testing a product that uses ultra violet to cure this is the fourth year and so far so good. I have no interest in this company in any way and their product is very-very expensive,although they claim to guarantee it for seven years.
Paint is still the most reasonable alternative.

REGARDS

Jerry


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## ColoChris (Sep 29, 2007)

So is cedar easier to finish than redwood? I like both grains, yet I want a smooth, glide at the touch, wood finish. 

Do you get results like this by applying the shellac first and then sand it? And then apply a clear coat?

I am still trying to locate a good clear coat as all I have access to is box stores.

Thanks Chris


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Chris, You might try Watco danish oil as your first sealing coat. It is applied in two applications, just follow the directions on the can. (Be sure you get the clear danish oil, they also make tinted versions) After this has dried thoroughly you can apply your gloss spar varnish. It will take 3 coats for good protection. The sun will win the battle but if your sign is hung in the shade it will last longer.


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## jerrymayfield (Sep 25, 2004)

jerrymayfield said:


> As a universal sealer use one application of a two pound cut of shellac(blond or super blond adds very little color and is color fast) if you want to add some color use one of the less refined grades such as garnet,orange or seedlac. I have tried clear paint base-outdoor- (for the darkest color ) and it lasted three years before it had to be redone. Right now I'm testing a product that uses ultra violet to cure this is the fourth year and so far so good. I have no interest in this company in any way and their product is very-very expensive,although they claim to guarantee it for seven years.
> Paint is still the most reasonable alternative.
> 
> REGARDS
> ...


If you want to use a clear coat from the big box stores, the one I used (that lasted three years) was purchased at Lowe's. It was Olympic #5 clear base (no color mixed in) Trim &Siding Paint. It went on cloudy but dried clear. I used two coats. You will find this in the cage not with the rest of the paint and the people who work there will probably tell you it will not work or they can't sell it with out color. It will and they can. There is no silver bullet for clear coating wood for outdoor use. The marine varnishes (that still need some yearly maintainance) cost from about $25-55.00 per quart. Do your self a favor and stay away from any thing that says urethane or poly urethane from the Big Box stores.

Good Luck

Jerry


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Part of the problem with outdoor finishes is the fact that a manufacturer can call a product whatever they want to. Most outdoor finishes are now called "spar varnish" but the ingredients vary widely between different manufacturers. Perhaps the most important thing to look for is the UV inhibitors. Read the labels and follow the directions to the letter. This should give you the best results the product is capable of.
Experts disagree on the "best methods" or products to use. Each of them has their own preferred technique. They all get great results. Jerry is our resident expert and by following his suggetions you will find yourself producing an end product you will be proud of. The secret is to not try mixing ideas from different experts and expect good results.


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