# Vintage Defiance (Stanley) C73 9" plane



## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Taking a chance, I just bought the above-described plane on eBay for about $30.00 including shipping. It has some rust and the iron needs work. It may also need to be lapped for flatness, etc.

Why did I do this? My reasoning went as follows: I researched new lower-end 9" planes and even the Stanleys (made in China?) don't get very good reviews. I've read it sometimes takes hours of hand work on new tools to flatten the soles, etc., and sometimes that's not even possible. So I thought I might be better off with a vintage plane (better casting). I will have to clean off the rust, sharpen the iron and probably lap the sole to flatten it BUT I might end up with a better tool than I could expect from a new lower-end plane even after the hand work is done.

Comments?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Good thinking. Evapo--rust is supposed to be very good at removing rust. Can get at car parts stores.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Before you dismiss Chinese planes, consider the Wood River V3 line. Reasonable prices, remarkably good quality, aged cast iron before manufacturing, and made in Taiwan, not mainland China where the junk is made. Had extensive input from american authorities on planes. Have two that required a couple of minutes of cleanup, but was flat out of the box. 

But part of the fun is restoring the old stuff, and $30 is cheap. Happy grinding. This is a picture of a C73


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I think you did great like Stick says half fun is making it right, kind like rebuilding a vintage car.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> Before you dismiss Chinese planes, consider the Wood River V3 line. Reasonable prices, remarkably good quality, aged cast iron before manufacturing, and made in Taiwan, not mainland China where the junk is made. Had extensive input from american authorities on planes. Have two that required a couple of minutes of cleanup, but was flat out of the box.
> 
> But part of the fun is restoring the old stuff, and $30 is cheap. Happy grinding. This is a picture of a C73


Where does the cord or battery plug in to???


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I watched a YouTube series by Paul Sellers on restoring old bench planes and from what I saw the job will be a whole lot quicker and easier than I anticipated. It'll probably never be a collector's item but a user that will be good for another 50 years. One surprise was he removed the rust from the casting and other parts with 120-grit sandpaper. No liquid rust remover!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

sfchuck said:


> I watched a YouTube series by Paul Sellers on restoring old bench planes and from what I saw the job will be a whole lot quicker and easier than I anticipated. It'll probably never be a collector's item but a user that will be good for another 50 years. One surprise was he removed the rust from the casting and other parts with 120-grit sandpaper. No liquid rust remover!


You can not go wrong refurbishing one of the older Stanley planes. Even the WWII era planes are very good quality. If you shop around you can find them for less than a $20 bill. High quality replacement blades, new handles and knobs are available, used parts abound, and they take very little effort to make into a lifetime user. 

Are they a LN or other high quality plane? NO, but they aren't $300 a pop, either! 

I have refurbished dozens of the old Stanley's and other makers. Some are better users then others, but all get the job done well, once "tuned".

All of these (Stanley's) are refurbished users, with the exception of the NIB #7 on the left next to my 100-150 year old wooded planes.

http://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=278386&thumb=1


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hock tools makes really good irons for your refurbished plane.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> Hock tools makes really good irons for your refurbished plane.


I put a Hock iron in one of my refurbed Stanley #5's - make quite a difference. Got the blade at Lee Valley - very reasonably priced.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

When I get this plane (it's supposed to be delivered on Saturday) and get it refurbished, it'll be the first time in more than 60 years I will have used a hand plane. I don't have a jointer or a planer so the Defiance will have to do. I'm building a workbench on casters and I've made the frame out of kiln-dried Douglas fir. As usual, the lumber is not perfectly straight so it will have to be touched up to make the top flat and level. I'll probably have to take between 1/8 and 1/4 off the frame. All the metal fasteners are well below that.

The work surface will be two pieces of 3/4 ply glued together, the top piece being of good quality plywood. I intend to make my own end vise (I've purchased a Shop Fox bench screw from Grizzly) and I'll make a Moxon-style side vise using pipe clamp hardware as shown in several YouTube videos. I haven't decided yet on dog holes, etc.

Here's a pic of the unfinished frame:


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Chuck - 60 years???? That's a long time - I just used one of mine a few days ago - I've refurbed a handful of old Stanleys and there's just something about using a hand plane that is relaxing. Admittedly I don't use them much, other than a block plane to ease edges. I'm sure you realize that a sharp blade is a must - not only makes it easier, but a lot safer to use a sharp tool than a dull one.

One last thing, I've built a similar workbench but I used two layers of 3/4 mdf for the top, screwed together from underneath. I don't mind banging them up because the top layer can always be replaced. As far as the casters, if you're going to be planing, the work bench will be susceptible to sideways racking so make sure your casters are locked in so that the bench doesn't get away on you. I didn't use casters on my bench but it sits on a fairly level basement floor.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

The last time I used a hand plane was in a sophomore woodshop class. It'll take me some time to the feel of one again. Luckily, I have a long way to go to straighten and level this workbench frame.

The reason it's on casters is because my 2-car garage is stuffed full. My "workshop" is really the driveway so I have to push the TS, the bench, the router table and other things out of the garage to do anything other than real small projects. The drill press and the miter station are pretty much stationary. I can move them but it's a pain.

The bench has locking casters but if I'm going to do any planing I will have to push it against the garage wall or block it to keep it still.

I hadn't thought much about MDF for the top but I'll look into it. Maybe 3/4 ply underneath for strength and 3/4 MDF on the top?


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## Larkan (Apr 13, 2012)

At $30 you can't go wrong, it's what I term a bargain.

The small palm plane in my signature is one I made and the Hock blade is what really "made" it so I think Tom is spot on mentioning him.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Larkan said:


> At $30 you can't go wrong, it's what I term a bargain.
> 
> The small palm plane in my signature is one I made and the Hock blade is what really "made" it so I think Tom is spot on mentioning him.


I really like using planes. What got me started was taking a class over two weekends at Rockler. A part timer there really knows his stuff and ran the class for making your own wooden planes. Since then I've purchased a number of planes. The class covered how to tune them, how to sharpen the blades and maintain them. 

Very soothing to use a plane and my block plane (a well tuned Stanley Sweetheart) and #4 Wood River get the most use, but once in awhile I dig out the #6 Wood River to really flatten something bigger than my 6 inch jointer capacity. Have to admit to buying a Veritas router plane in a fit of self indulgence, mainly because it's such a beautiful tool - pictured below, ain't it purty?

To offset that, I have a 1 inch wide cheapie rabbit plane that I tuned up into a really nice tool. I use it surprisingly often.

I guess some of us are just plane crazy.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Very attractive tool, Tom.

I used to think the advent of woodworking machines put an end to hand tools. But in retirement, I'm realizing that less expensive hand tools can do almost everything machines can...and more economically. And, lord knows, I've got the time. 

I just checked the Post Office web site and my plane is in town and out for delivery. I can't wait to get started refurbishing it so I can use it to straighten this workbench.

Watching that Paul Sellers video on restoring hand planes, he used 600 and 1200 grit diamond plates for the final honing of his iron (started with 250 grit to take out the nicks). Since those honing stones are costly, I'm going to try to use 600 and 1200 grit abrasive paper on an 8X8 piece of tempered glass. Hope that works sufficiently well.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@sfchuck I have the diamond plates now, but used sandpaper on glass successfully for years. For the final dressing, I've used up to 4000 grit, which really just polishes the edge. For flattening the bottom, I finished no more than 1000 grit. I also have a leather strop and use a fine grinding compound to really clean up the cutting edge. These days I mostly use the diamond stones touch up cutting edges on irons or chisels. They rarely need any more than that.

If I were you I'd take a really good straight edge to the sole to see if it is very far out. And I'd try to rock it on the table saw to see if it is warped or twisted, which will be much harder to work out. 

If you're going to use it on a shooting board, the sole and sides must be at a perfect 90, and you'll need a good quality engineer's square to check that. We'll want to see before and after pictures you know. Happy grinding!


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Well, I was expecting this plane to be a real disaster. It was not. It looks like it was only used long enough to dull the iron and then sat for 20-25 years gathering rust. But, not being familiar at all with Defiance planes, I need to describe it and maybe someone can tell me if it's a real Defiance or if it might be a hybrid or a reproduction. 

The sole is 9 1/2" from the front of the toe to the rear of he half-moon on the heel. The iron is 2" wide and 6 3/4" long. The "furniture" looks to be varnished in a mahogany red and is in good shape. The tote is stamped with Defiance by Stanley and the body casting has Made in USA and C73 cast into it. The frog is covered with a thick coat of red enamel and is held in place with a couple round-head machine screws, not the cap screws used by (some) Stanleys. The paint makes the frog very difficult to position. I'll probably have scrape it off or hit it with some lacquer thinner to get down to bare metal. The lever cap is not a shiny, machined part like a Stanley but rough and appears not machined at all. There are no logo or words on it.

Some elbow grease will get the rust off and some work with abrasive papers will get the iron sharp again and it will probably be a serviceable user. It'll never be a collector's item. It's probably worth the $14.50 (plus 16.60 shipping).

Comments?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

The "Defiance" line of planes were entry level planes mfg'd by Stanley. They were geared towards the DIYer and general public. The Defiance line was distributed under many different names. Some with the Defiance markings, some without. Good plane to get your feet wet with when it comes to restoring, but I wouldn't spend a whole lot of time and effort into a plane that at best will get ya entry level performance. Sandpaper smooth the sole, clean all mating surfaces, check for cracks or defects, put the best edge you can on the iron, tune as best one of these can be tuned and keep her for a user.

just my couple of cents worth


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Using 100-grit abrasive paper, I worked the sole back and forth on a flat surface and it seems to be in pretty good shape. The rust came off evenly except for some minor pitting at the left front corner There are no discernable peaks or valleys on the sole. Checking with a combination square blade, the sole appears to be flat and straight. 

I quickly ran out of 100-grit paper and will have to go out and get some more later today.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@sfchuck Cool that it's flat. If you keep the iron sharp by consistently doing a little touch up, you should get some nice service out of it. Planes are a bit addictive. Of all the woodworking tasks, using a hand plane is the most peaceful and satisfying. I was watching Rob Cosman on video the other night and he used a parafin block to rub a tiny amount by drawing a wavey line on the sole before each use. I can see how that would smooth the motion. Guess I'll go get some. 

Please do share about your "new" plane's performance. Sometimes a cheapie tool turns out to perform very well. My $ 40 rabbit plane (after tuneup) turned out to be a great performer depite mediocre reviews.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

@sfchuck

the 100 grit cleaned her up for ya Chuck, but if you got a little more time,,,go with a finer grit or two. The 100 will leave ya with a pretty ruff surface, which in turn will create a bit of resistance. Especially noticeable during extended use. If you don't, at least get the paraffin wax. What it will do is lesson the drag, help fill in some of the micro sized voids left behind by the sanding and help the plane glide across the wood as you use it. 

Now that you got her cleaned up... make sure everything sit flat, no rocking or pivoting. The frog needs to sit nice and flat on the bed, the iron nice and flat to the frog, the chip breaker to the iron and the level cap to the chip breaker. Check where the leading edge of the chip breaker rests on the iron. NO GAPS!! If you do have a gap, then its decision making time. Some can be salvaged some your better off finding a replacement. The iron needs to be in good shape. no pitting along the cuttng edge, flatten the back out to almost a mirror finish. Check to see if the cutting egde is 90* to the sides of the iron..if everything else checks ok,, the edge can be sharpened back into shape....
if not,,,welp,, I have several Hocks... excellent irons!! quite a few LeeValley planes and irons, again, excellent, but, I dont' know that you want to pay 3-4 times what you paid for the plane, just for an iron.. look em up on Ebay...10-20 bucks and you'll have a good enough replacement.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Thanks for that, Bill. I appreciate all the advice you folks can give me with your various experiences.

Since this plane is not a display piece or a collector's item, I think I've gone about as far as I want to go. I've sanded pretty much all the rust off and flattened all the critical and mating surfaces. And I went at it with a wire brush wheel in my drill press. It looks a lot better than it did yesterday. But the machining at the factory was pretty crude and there are grinding marks on virtually all the cast surfaces. I will try to polish it a little more with a finer grit paper. 

I'll post some pics when I get a chance to reduce the resolutions in my photo editor. This site won't accommodate several high resolution images at once.

I did correctly position the frog and other adjustable parts. I've still got to work on the iron. It's not square and has a belly in the center. I've acquired some various grits of wet/dry abrasive ranging from 220 to 1500 and I will get an 8X8 piece of tempered glass tomorrow. Then I'll have to wait a few days for the Wood River honing guide I'm going to order. It's not available here locally (the San Francisco Bay area!) Who knew?

I did a quick and crude pass at the iron with 100-grit paper and installed the iron and top cap. I got it positioned correctly and took one swipe at a 2X2. I must have it adjusted pretty well because I did get one curly shaving. Not very long and kind of crinkled but it gives me some confidence that this will be a useful tool with a well sharpened iron.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Here are the pictures I promised. I don't have a "before and after" for every step of the process...I was covered in black dust from sanding and I didn't want to get it all over my camera. But you can sorta see my progress. The last pic is the curly shaving I zipped off with a dull blade. By the way, I'm using the bench I need to flatten with a temporary particleboard top clamped on. You can see the residue from the sanding all over the benchtop. The last three pics are of the reasonably cleaned and assembled plane...the others show work in progress and before I started the whole body was rusted like the iron and top cap.

I think I've figured out that the thick red enamel on the frog and the thick blue-gray enamel inside the top of the body casting were to hide the miserably unfinished state of the castings...poor to non-existent machining.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

A narrow shaving like that suggests the iron's edge isn't quite straight to the sole. Straighten a bit with the lever. I occasionally check chisels with an engineer's square to make sure the cutting edge is 90 to the iron's sides.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

The iron wasn't square at all, Tom. It was off about 2 degrees corner-to-corner and had a bow or belly in the center of the cutting edge. The last guy who tried to sharpen it apparently had no idea what he was doing. I've got it squared up now and took out the curvature but I'll have to do an initial grind to establish the primary bevel then hone it. The hard part will be waiting for my honing guide, which I ordered this morning thru Amazon. It'll be a few days. I ordered the WoodRiver honing guide for $16.00... a buck and half more than the plane cost. :frown:

Paul Sellers recommends a 25 degree bevel with a 30 degree micro bevel right at the edge. What say you?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

@sfchuck

Chuck...does the "belly" that the iron has, make its way into the 'cutting edge" of the iron? If it does and you can't get the cutting edge perfectly plumb and straight/flat time for a replacement. Cutting bevels are really a kind of personal thing after a while. As you mentioned a good rule of thumb for the primary is 25 degrees, secondary (micro) I like to go with 2-3 degree's. Only because my honing guide can be set up for it..*L* Too much of a secondary (micro) bevel creates a really narrow point (cutting edge) which is more susceptible to nicks and dings thru normal use. It also sets the chip breaker further away from the leading edge of the iron. Not something you want. I try to get mine set at around 1/16th of an inch or there abouts...

I can almost hear you gnashing your teeth over all of the casting marks. *L*..but hey,,, it is what it is and from the sounds of it thus far, you got yourself a solid user in the making.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Bill, I struggled with how to describe the problem with the plane iron...apparently I didn't do well. The iron is flat. The bow or belly is along the cutting edge, meaning the iron sticks out below the sole further in the middle than along the edges. I've got it straight now...I taped a "fence" on the table of my disk sander at a perfect right angle to the disk and gave it a couple light pops. I didn't heat the iron at all so no issue with hardness. Now the task is to re-establish the bevel and then begin to hone it. I wouldn't have thought a couple thousandths of curvature would make it so difficult to re-do the bevel.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Chuck - it depends on how much of a bow was on the cutting edge. Rob Cosman recommends a bit of sharpening on the corners to prevent the corners from digging into your work as you plane. Check out this video at about the 2:35 mark.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

well, now that throws a whole new light on the ole iron... if the arch/bow/curve or belly as you put it, was relatively even, both sides slightly curved, it may have very well been intentional. By doing this, and doing it well, you can eliminate the cut lines left by a squared blade. A sharpening technique not terribly difficult to learn, but one that can be a challenge to do well. 

when redoing irons, just a little thing can make for alot of work. This is one reason I would caution you on going too far with your micro bevel. BUT since I believe your intended use is more general than specific,,a little nick and the ridge it would leave arn't a deal breaker. 

Don't be afraid to use an aggressive medium to get your primary bevel. You could spend the better part of a day with a fine grit removing what a lesser grit would remove in 15 minutes.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

sfchuck said:


> *The iron wasn't square at all, Tom. It was off about 2 degrees corner-to-corner and had a bow or belly in the center of the cutting edge. * The last guy who tried to sharpen it apparently had no idea what he was doing. I've got it squared up now and took out the curvature but I'll have to do an initial grind to establish the primary bevel then hone it. The hard part will be waiting for my honing guide, which I ordered this morning thru Amazon. It'll be a few days. I ordered the WoodRiver honing guide for $16.00... a buck and half more than the plane cost. :frown:
> 
> Paul Sellers recommends a 25 degree bevel with a 30 degree micro bevel right at the edge. What say you?


If you have watched Paul Sellers, then you should have picked up on this. Bill is correct, it is intentional. Since it is off only slightly, then it was done to keep the corners from "digging in" or causing a groove or ridge. If it had been more severe, then I would say, that, it had been set up as a scrub plane. 
Don't get caught up in sharpening a perfect blade. It needs to be square, but the corners don't need, and shouldn't be at 90°. They will dig in if they are at 90°. 

Don't get caught up in Micro-bevel, specific angles, etc. Experiment, find out what works for you. The only real requirement is, that, the blade be sharp. If it isn't then the plane will just cause you frustration. My best advice on this...when you think that it is sharp enough...sharpen it some more. If it cuts you when you look at it then you are there. (A little tongue in cheek, but I'm trying to make a point).

These may help.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

*Defiance plane update*

Well, I tried to like Bill (schnewj)'s post but it wouldn't take. But thanks for that, Bill.

Now the update: I got tired of waiting for the honing guide and...having looked at Paul Sellers' video again...I sharpened it by handholding the iron at the appropriate angle. All the further I went was 400 grit and that made it plenty sharp enough to flatten and straighten the frame rails on the workbench. I've still got 1000 and 1500 abrasive and I will get back to honing a little later (probably when I need to use the plane again).]

After sharpening I did some test passes on a 1X2 and managed to shave off long, curly shavings the whole width of the board and as long as I wanted to push. And it was not all that hard to push. So I tackled the bench frame and it only took about 25 minutes...with regular pauses to check the progress...to get the job done. It even cut through dime-sized knots without a problem. Looks like it's gonna be a reliable user albeit not very pretty.

The next part of the project is to add the top and then the vises. I will most likely use the plane again to flatten and square the vise jaws.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Expectations meet, if not slightly exceeded. Well done Chuck!!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Ah, another hand plane addict in the making. Really satisfying, isn't it?


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm kinda surprised...it only took a few strokes for me to get the feel of the tool and get the technique back. Now I'll have to get more practice, practice, practice...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*Your're Cooking With Gas, NOW!*



sfchuck said:


> I'm kinda surprised...it only took a few strokes for me to get the feel of the tool and get the technique back. Now I'll have to get more practice, practice, practice...


Keep the iron sharp, pay attention to grain direction and you're golden. :grin::grin::grin:


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

schnewj said:


> Keep the iron sharp, pay attention to grain direction and you're golden. :grin::grin::grin:


Thanks, Bill. And thanks again to everyone who chimed in.

I'm going to have to delay finishing the workbench for a while. My sister-in-law is having some health problems and the wife and I will be concentrating on her for now. I'll start a new thread on the progress of the bench in a couple weeks.


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