# Summer Garage Sale Challenge



## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

Wood is expensive! I have a challenge for myself (and maybe you?)

Every weekend SWMBO and I visit garage sales. I plan to buy something made of wood (maybe old end table or something) and harvest the wood to build something or several something's. Another source could be Goodwill, Salvation Army, garbage at the curb etc.

Tools could be scroll saw, lathe, router table or table saw etc. I will post results as the summer passes. I invite you to do the same.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Steve, for me, garage sales start too early and the weather is too hot for me. :-(

These days since I retired, I don't do nothing, and I don't start that until after 10am!  heh heh.

But I have rounded up a pallet or two on some of my trips through town. I still have some wood left over from building some small crates. I need to get back to doing that and clean off the shelf where the wood is stored.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Steve, reclaiming wood is a great thing. Someone gave me an old picnic table and we used it for a couple years until the dogs chewed it up pretty bad. I took it apart, tossed out the unusable pieces and built the picnic table condiment holder you see in photo 1 from some of it. (lots left to work with) A church near me took down a privacy fence and I offered to haul away the wood for them. The result is photo 2 where you can still see the paint to be sanded off the edge. (Lots of this left too)


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Steve, while you are driving around, if you happen to see a bunch of freshly cut sections of tree sitting near the curb in someone's yard, stop and ask if you can have a few pieces (if it looks like oak, maple, elm, etc.). There is lots of good free or cheap wood to be had by finding people who have had problem trees cut down. You have most of the tools to use this wood. You just need to split or chainsaw the rounds into sizes that will fit your jointer, table saw, and planer.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

A great place to look is at your local recycling center. Most all of the tree trimmers dump their wood there. Most of it is green, but some is not. People looking for firewood will scroung the smaller wood, but some of it is just to large for them to handle. I have seen some nice pecan, oak, and even walnut, plus other large crotch cut pieces there. Most of these recycling centers will even load it for you.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

MT Stringer said:


> These days since I retired, I don't do nothing, and I don't start that until after 10am!  heh heh.


Dang, you get up early, don't you? :dance3:

Wood CAN be expensive; but it doesn't need to be. You buy it, it's going to cost, and the more exotic it is, the more it's going to cost. But check craigslist, ask furniture and/or appliance stores about shipping pallets, ask friends, about wood available. If you can/will resaw, there's plenty of trees that have been felled, and are free for the taking; around here, oak, maple, poplar, pine, and so on. Same with pallets, or scrap wood. Plenty of stuff put on the curb for the trashman to pick up also. 

I BUY my plywood (well, most of it for sure); because I want to be sure of using decent plywood, the same thickness, and need larger pieces - that is get a half or full sheet cut as needed, when I buy it. I've got some Spanish cedar stashed that came from a pallet, my half completed banjo is part pallet wood. Heck, when I was younger I used to occassionally dumpster dive for wood, and came up with some nice stuff at times. .


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## Keith Hodges (Apr 30, 2013)

Hi guys. My second post on this forum. I'm sure many of you are already doing this, but, if not, check your area for small, one or two man sawmill operations. A lot cheaper than lumber mills, or box stores. I buy Cherry for $2.00 a board foot, Red Oak for $1.20 bf. All kiln dried, and even cheaper if rough cut to use in your own planer. We have a lot of timber in Arkansas, so the sawmills are plentiful. Wood species is limited to the area your in, but better than $5.50 bf at Lowes or Home Depot.


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

No finds at this morning's sales (sigh)


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## retired doug (Oct 10, 2010)

I make toys for donation at Christmas and sell some at the local Farmer's markets. A lot of my plywood and hardwood are scrap from a local cabinetmaker. He calls me up after each kitchen install, and I clean out his excess. Saves his dumpster fees and helps me. Several custom door companies donate scrap walnut, mahogany,cherry,and maple to our club for the toy program. IPE (brazilian cherry) scraps from deck install are usually available from deck installers.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

Big Steve, I do much the same as you do looking for whatever. Another source to look at is called the Deseret Industires. This happens to be an L D S organization, but no matter they still have some quality items. The prices are not expensive at all. Not sure where exactly you are located, but if you can find it in the phone book they are fun to browse in Just one more place to look and time is not a factor can shop antime during the day except Sundays


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

retired doug said:


> I make toys for donation at Christmas and sell some at the local Farmer's markets. A lot of my plywood and hardwood are scrap from a local cabinetmaker. He calls me up after each kitchen install, and I clean out his excess. Saves his dumpster fees and helps me. Several custom door companies donate scrap walnut, mahogany,cherry,and maple to our club for the toy program. IPE (brazilian cherry) scraps from deck install are usually available from deck installers.


Hadn't even thought of that. Small pieces like that would be very good for some projects I'm just getting into, in the main chess sets for Toys For Tots. Not sure how many cabinet makers are left in this area tho, I knew of two, and they both closed down some time ago. Time to start checking the phone book. 
All free wood is always popular wood. 

When you sell at the Farmer's Markets, do you set up a table, or what? Thanks.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I got 'volunteered' yesterday, to haul a bunch of stuff to the landfill's 'Shareshed' (usable stuff gets re-used). I had to drop off a load of brand new, never used, Ikea doors and shelves. Sure hope somebody can use them...what a waste.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve, while you are driving around, if you happen to see a bunch of freshly cut sections of tree sitting near the curb in someone's yard, stop and ask if you can have a few pieces (if it looks like oak, maple, elm, etc.). There is lots of good free or cheap wood to be had by finding people who have had problem trees cut down. You have most of the tools to use this wood. You just need to split or chainsaw the rounds into sizes that will fit your jointer, table saw, and planer.


For that matter you might be able to hook up with a tree cutter and ask for some of the logs; saves them having to haul it off. Most tree cutters have to pay a dump charge, at least in Florida. Here in Japan wood is just plain expensive.


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## retired doug (Oct 10, 2010)

Yes, I set up a 10'x10' easy up tent and 4 @ 5' folding tables along the sides with 4 pieces of 2'x6' gridwall standing in the back to hang scroll saw pictures from. Easy to transport.


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## ChadPMIK (Jun 28, 2013)

Daikusan said:


> For that matter you might be able to hook up with a tree cutter and ask for some of the logs; saves them having to haul it off. Most tree cutters have to pay a dump charge, at least in Florida. Here in Japan wood is just plain expensive.


My Dad cuts a lot of wood for their furnace so I've recruited him to be on the lookout for interesting pieces. One thing that has always concerned me though is if I'm getting freshly cut wood how do I prevent it from cracking while it dries? I'm in Montana and it is very dry here most of the year.

PS: I see scrap wood on the free section of Craigslist all the time. I saw the word "slab" the other day and just stared at it like a dummy, never did email the guy and I can't find the ad anymore


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

ChadPMIK said:


> One thing that has always concerned me though is if I'm getting freshly cut wood how do I prevent it from cracking while it dries? I'm in Montana and it is very dry here most of the year.
> 
> PS: I see scrap wood on the free section of Craigslist all the time. I saw the word "slab" the other day and just stared at it like a dummy, never did email the guy and I can't find the ad anymore


Im not sure there is a way to prevent the cracking. That largely depends on where and how the cut came out of the log. I think a good sawmill person could help with that (some others on the forum likely will have some better advice. Cracking is what butterflies are for; you see frequently even on high-grade furniture and boxes. George Nakashima, one of American premiere woodmasters used them frequently.

A slab would be nice but Im not sure about buying it sight unseen, sorta like the pig-in-the-poke. It may be a good deal but likely not.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

ChadPMIK said:


> My Dad cuts a lot of wood for their furnace so I've recruited him to be on the lookout for interesting pieces. One thing that has always concerned me though is if I'm getting freshly cut wood how do I prevent it from cracking while it dries? I'm in Montana and it is very dry here most of the year.
> 
> PS: I see scrap wood on the free section of Craigslist all the time. I saw the word "slab" the other day and just stared at it like a dummy, never did email the guy and I can't find the ad anymore


Painting the ends would be the first step. The wood in trees in like a bundle of soda straws that carry nutrients from the roots to the leaves or needles. The wood in trees is also drier towards the heartwood and the sapwood is the wettest. Painting the ends slows the drying process and evens out the moisture loss. You'll never stop all the cracking so cut the original boards at least 6" longer than you need later. If you have a bunch of boards to dry they need to be dry-piled. Lay the boards on wooden strips that are spaced no more than every 2' of length and leave a gap between each board for air flow. If possible keep the pile in a cool dark(er) space.

Slabs are the first cut off a log. They are almost all sapwood and will shrink the most. They are also usually tapered in width and in thickness from one end to the other so it can be challenging to use them for anything. I saw a guy side a cabin with them once. He very carefully fitted them together and it looked pretty good. A year later there 1/2 to 1' gaps between them. I've also seen them used for crude looking corrals, or rustic depending on your point of view. Sapwood is the most prone to rot so they don't last all that long but the price is right cause they usually just get burned where I live.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Steve,
there are a bunch of absolutely hideous pieces of 1970s furniture at my Local habitat store. A lot have good looking wood and 'real' plywood in them.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The wood in trees is also drier towards the heartwood and the sapwood is the wettest. Painting the ends slows the drying process and evens out the moisture loss. You'll never stop all the cracking so cut the original boards at least 6" longer than you need later.


Charles
Thanks for the information. I have always known the heart of the tree has the hardest and best wood and the outside carries the sap. I never put the two thoughts together to consider the drying factor; the center is dryer and the outside is wetter creating a tension when cut and drying. I knew that the pieces cut had a tendency to cup and put that with wood movement not the drier and wetter factor. 

Five years ago, I knew boards had a tendency to warp or cup but I did not know about wood movement. I now have a couple pieces of my favorite wood I measure with digital calipers every month. I write the measurement and date on the board. It is very interesting to see how much it actually changes through the seasons. That also gives me somewhat of a reference point to where the wood is when I build something. Granted that is not completely accurate because wood of the same species but from a different tree will move differently.

I dare say wood from the same tree in respect to the heart and outer sections will move differently also, though that may be a subtle difference. Since all the wood I have used has been store bought, I have no data or reference to that.
Steve


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There is a diagram of a log in the top left corner of this link that shows how wood will shrink according to location in the tree and according to thickness. https://www.google.ca/search?q=wood...bJeOyiQKoj4CoBQ&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=861 If you look across the page to the board with the ruler on it you can see that pulled upward at the edges. The longer the grain line, the father it will shrink as it loses water content. There are lots of good examples on this page. You can sometimes tell a lot about where a board came from in the tree and the size of the tree it came from by looking at the end grain. Short radius rings either came from the heart or a small tree. If the rings run flat from edge to edge or straight through from face to face then it was much bigger.

Steve, I would be interested to know what the species those boards are and just how much they have moved.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Burying smaller pieces of new wood in sawdust can help prevent cracking.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

JOAT said:


> Burying smaller pieces of new wood in sawdust can help prevent cracking.


True Theo. If you wet the sawdust you can also spalt the wood. I did that by accident once. I put a few boards under sawdust and under a leaky spot in the roof they were under. It took about 2 months. I used some of the wood to make my fireplace mantle with.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve, I would be interested to know what the species those boards are and just how much they have moved.


One is Nara (Japanese oak) the other is Enjyu (Japanes Pagoda). Ill get the boards out tomorrow and post the info.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> True Theo. If you wet the sawdust you can also spalt the wood. I did that by accident once. I put a few boards under sawdust and under a leaky spot in the roof they were under. It took about 2 months. I used some of the wood to make my fireplace mantle with.


I read someplace a while back about some spalted logs (found in a marsh in England?). They were cut and buried by some accident. Recently they were found and preserved well enough to sell. Very expensive if I recall right. That may have been on Router Forums Ill try to find the article. 

IMHO this is a helpful link The Project Gutenberg eBook of Seasoning of Wood, by Joseph B. Wagner


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve, I would be interested to know what the species those boards are and just how much they have moved.


Here is the info on the two boards. I didn’t think of measuring the thickness at the start (that’s where the most movement with their grain orientation is). We will have to wait for the whole year to see the entire cycle. I would like to see where they are at in the winter. Temperature not taken.


Japanese Nara (Oak) Grain: 45° looking at end

April 13, 2013 110.36 Dry
May 26, 2013	110.46 No comment
June 18, 2013 110.91 22.93	Rainy Season
July 17, 2013 110.82 22.86	Rainy Season over - dry hot 1 week


Japanese Enjyu (Pagoda) Grain: bow lengthwise, nearly equal both sides looking at end
April 13, 2013 100.26 Dry
May 26, 2013	100.62 No comment
June 18, 2013 101.04 25.87	Rainy Season
July 17, 2013 100.72 25.55	Rainy Season over - dry hot 1 week


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Daikusan said:


> I read someplace a while back about some spalted logs (found in a marsh in England?). They were cut and buried by some accident. Recently they were found and preserved well enough to sell. Very expensive if I recall right.[/url]


Sounds like bog oak. Adamson and Low - Bog Oak And if you want to do a search using 'bog oak' as the search phrase, there is lots more info out there. I believe it's New Zealand where some very expensive logs are found on occassion.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Daikusan said:


> Here is the info on the two boards. I didn’t think of measuring the thickness at the start (that’s where the most movement with their grain orientation is). We will have to wait for the whole year to see the entire cycle. I would like to see where they are at in the winter. Temperature not taken.
> 
> 
> Japanese Nara (Oak) Grain: 45° looking at end
> ...


That's about 1% of movement. That doesn't seem too bad. I had a look at the link you posted. Looks like a really good article so I downloaded it so I can go over in more detail later.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

JOAT said:


> Sounds like bog oak. Adamson and Low - Bog Oak And if you want to do a search using 'bog oak' as the search phrase, there is lots more info out there. I believe it's New Zealand where some very expensive logs are found on occassion.


Thanks Theo
That wasn’t the link I had read but it had more detailed information. Thanks for looking that up.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> That's about 1% of movement. That doesn't seem too bad. I had a look at the link you posted. Looks like a really good article so I downloaded it so I can go over in more detail later.


True. But if you don’t plan for it, or aren’t aware of it. That can make project problems.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Daikusan said:


> Here is the info on the two boards. I didn’t think of measuring the thickness at the start (that’s where the most movement with their grain orientation is). We will have to wait for the whole year to see the entire cycle. I would like to see where they are at in the winter. Temperature not taken.
> 
> 
> Japanese Nara (Oak) Grain: 45° looking at end
> ...


Steve,

I found that article interesting as well. This is a bit of a tangent, but I spent a few years working an edge bander at a cabinet making factory. Nearly everything there was either chipboard or MDF, and one summer the humidity was so high (near 100%) that we had problems with the edge swelling and flaring out if we left cut boards out overnight. In one case, a 16mm board became 16.8mm at the edge but 10mm from the edge it was the "correct" size! That was a 5% change overnight. I have been careful about humidity ever since, and that article helped me understand how to prepare for changes in size due to humidity, 

Thanks,
Darryl.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

darsev said:


> Steve,
> 
> I found that article interesting as well. This is a bit of a tangent, but I spent a few years working an edge bander at a cabinet making factory. Nearly everything there was either chipboard or MDF, and one summer the humidity was so high (near 100%) that we had problems with the edge swelling and flaring out if we left cut boards out overnight. In one case, a 16mm board became 16.8mm at the edge but 10mm from the edge it was the "correct" size! That was a 5% change overnight. I have been careful about humidity ever since, and that article helped me understand how to prepare for changes in size due to humidity,
> 
> ...


Darryl
Glad that article helped. I don’t think your comment was tangential, (is MDF tangential :jester its right on line with the discussion of wood movement and the other threads about router tables that are made of MDF. You illustrated the point of moisture content and MDF quite well with your personal experience.

I have seen several pictures of router tables made of MDF that were covered well with laminate except for the fence/bolt slots where, you can see the MDF particles quite well there. I have wondered if the MDF would eventually swell in those areas.

I have the same concern for the table I am making of plywood even though plywood should be less problematic. I have yet to determine a good sealing process for the exposed areas; one being under the router plate the other the slots for the fence bolts.

Thanks for sharing your experience.
Steve


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I saw an article a few years back that listed finishes according to their ability to prevent water migration into the wood underneath. Shellac, waxes, and oils were poor. Varnish was the best common finish with oil based being better than water based. The best were 2 part epoxies.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I saw an article a few years back that listed finishes according to their ability to prevent water migration into the wood underneath. Shellac, waxes, and oils were poor. Varnish was the best common finish with oil based being better than water based. The best were 2 part epoxies.


Charles
Do you recall if the article was on Router Forums or elsewhere? 

Now the real challenge: computing the thickness, testing and having the ability to repeat the process accurately, while keeping the thickness consistent everywhere its applied. Sanding is one thought, but with epoxies. . . I think making adjusting bolts may be simpler and less time consuming, but that defeats the purpose of having the plate distribute it weight evenly over the recess. 

Hmm food for thought; I’m not at the point of routing the plate yet.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Steve, I think it might have come from Lee Valley tools but it has been a few years since I read it. There are 2 part epoxies for spraying. I used some to spray some speaker boxes for my son once. I don't know if it is necessary to to that extent, I would think varnish would be enough in most cases but I don't have the humidity problems others have.

I would sneak up on getting the recess deep enough. I didn't need leveling screws on my last effort and I agree that if you can do without them it's better. If you wind up only a couple of thousandths low (imperial for not very much) you could probably build it up with a layer of glue or a couple of coats of varnish.


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## brucenelson (Jan 7, 2012)

It troubles me to see companies that make router tables and other like cheaply make woodworking equipment out of MDF. This material may work in the short run, but if exposed to high humidity, it swells and becomes crap. When I built my ShopNotes spiral router jig, instead of using the MDF that they specified in their plans, I used Baltic Birch plywood. This is a material that the Finns and Russians make, and they do a good job. It will not swell and delaminate, and if finished with oil based polyurethane finishes, it will not be affected by humidity. The material is made up of thin layers of birch veneer laminated using waterproof adhesive, and has no voids in it like plywood manufactured in the USA. I believe what makes it solid and resistant to moisture is that the layers of birch veneer that make up the interior of the plywood have no voids in them, and the amount of adhesive between the layers lends a plastic-like stiffness to the material. This material needs no edge-banding as the sides have no voids and are attractive and solid.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Daikusan said:


> Darryl
> Glad that article helped. I don’t think your comment was tangential, (is MDF tangential :jester its right on line with the discussion of wood movement and the other threads about router tables that are made of MDF. You illustrated the point of moisture content and MDF quite well with your personal experience.
> 
> I have seen several pictures of router tables made of MDF that were covered well with laminate except for the fence/bolt slots where, you can see the MDF particles quite well there. I have wondered if the MDF would eventually swell in those areas.
> ...


Steve,

for what it's worth, once the edge band was on, there was no more swelling. The glue sealed everything. 

Darryl.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve, I think it might have come from Lee Valley tools but it has been a few years since I read it. There are 2 part epoxies for spraying. I used some to spray some speaker boxes for my son once. I don't know if it is necessary to to that extent, I would think varnish would be enough in most cases but I don't have the humidity problems others have.
> 
> I would sneak up on getting the recess deep enough. I didn't need leveling screws on my last effort and I agree that if you can do without them it's better. If you wind up only a couple of thousandths low (imperial for not very much) you could probably build it up with a layer of glue or a couple of coats of varnish.


I agree on the build-up. I have sprayed epoxies before, but lacquer is easier soI thinking lacquer right now. I probably could get by with nothing since it is plywood, but it is kept in a shed. Unfortunately, as Bruce suggested Baltic-birch is not available here. If it is I have not found it.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I saw an article a few years back that listed finishes according to their ability to prevent water migration into the wood underneath. Shellac, waxes, and oils were poor. Varnish was the best common finish with oil based being better than water based. The best were 2 part epoxies.


The epoxies come with a however tho. I just read in one of Phil Bolger's boat books that a friend of his had made some boats with honeycomb, layered with plywood I believe, and covered with epoxy. Said the epoxy allowed water vapor to migrate in, but not out. Said the last he knew the owner was trying to get water out with a syringe. I believe there are only two glues graded as being actually waterproof, rescorcinal (sp?) I believe is one, and can't remember the other. Epoxy is actually very water resistant, but not actually water proof as I recall. And I don't know where I got the information at this time. Will see what I can do.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Steve I would say that lacquer should be good enough too but I was amazed by Darryl's experience with particle board. I've never seen any kind of panel board swell like that.

Theo, the other waterproof glue is polyurethane like Gorilla glue. I would be interested to see anything you can find regarding the epoxy not being waterproof as I always thought it was.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve I would say that lacquer should be good enough too but I was amazed by Darryl's experience with particle board. I've never seen any kind of panel board swell like that.
> 
> Theo, the other waterproof glue is polyurethane like Gorilla glue. I would be interested to see anything you can find regarding the epoxy not being waterproof as I always thought it was.


Charles,

you weren't the only one that wasn't expecting it. Here is my original post on the story with pictures. I had to take photos just to prove to myself that it happened...

http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/34222-wasnt-me.html

Darryl


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> ATheo, the other waterproof glue is polyurethane like Gorilla glue. I would be interested to see anything you can find regarding the epoxy not being waterproof as I always thought it was.


About all I've been finding is sales ads claiming it is waterproof. This is the best I've come up with so far. Waterproof Epoxy

I have a fair size collection of boatbuilding books, and subscribe to a magazine on the subject. There are varying stories of water working its way thru the epoxy finish or coating and saturating the wood inside. The general concensis is, that epoxy is very water resistant, but it is not in fact 100% waterproof. However, for most practical purposes you could reasonably say that epoxy is 100% waterproof - that is, if you apply it properly, and apply sufficient coats for the job at hand. 

I have in fact read a statement that epoxy is not 100% waterproof, just very water resistant. Supposedly by an actual scientist. But that was quite some time back, and I can't recall where I read it. Bleah. Isn't it always that way? 

I will say that I have high hopes of building a boat sometime in the future. And, if and when I do, I will use cloth and epoxy on the bottom. For wear resistance mainly, but water proofing also. Since the boat, if it ever comes into being, will be living on a trailer, when not being used, you could call the epoxy 100% waterproof. 

I will keep checking, and if I come up with anything solid, I will let you know.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I am also thinking of building a boat so I am interested in what you find out. I had the same idea for the outside. Were you going to put a layer of fibreglass on the inside or just varnish the wood to seal it?

It looked like the article was about waterproof coatings as opposed to glue. I've tried using waterproof glues on outdoor projects and they eventually fail or I should say the wood next to the glue line fails. Of course, if you could keep the water out of the wood with a totally waterproof coating then the joint shouldn't fail.


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## carlp. (Nov 3, 2012)

*boat bulding*

Hi Chuck you could try cascamite it is in powder form you mix with water, used a lot in building of wooden boats. regards carl


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> . . . Were you going to put a layer of fibreglass on the inside or just varnish the wood to seal it?


Gelcoat on the fiberglass will seal it and make it waterproof. Gelcoat can be pigmented and can be polished. Boat mfg usually spray the gelcoat on the mold then apply the fiberglass on top of it.

Now that you brought up your question I had not considered gelcoat on the router table, a possibility but overkill. I think the lacquer will work just fine. The table is not going to be submerged (hopefully) but is it kept in a non-climate controlled shed.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Thanks Carl, I'll keep that in mind. I think I might have some of that under a different name from Weldwood. 

Steve, good to know, I was thinking that the gel coat is there to protect the fibreglass from UV degradation and that might be part of it. I wasn't thinking that it would be for waterproofing. I suppose it would be good for sealing a table but like you say might be overkill unless you have extreme humidity issues.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Steve, good to know, I was thinking that the gel coat is there to protect the fibreglass from UV degradation and that might be part of it. I wasn't thinking that it would be for waterproofing. I suppose it would be good for sealing a table but like you say might be overkill unless you have extreme humidity issues.


It is there for the UV protection but it also prevents the water from getting into the fibers. If it gets into the fibers it will wick. That is why it is important to immediately fix gelcoat chips under the waterline.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Big Steve said:


> Wood is expensive!


I just ran across this, looking for something else, so went back to the first post. I don't have any place to store any of this, or I'd be on it in a heartbeat. 
Firewood

I was going thru town a week or so ago, and there was a tree cut down in a front yard. Not sure what it was, but it looked at least six feet thru at the base, and I didn't see any bad spots in it. I almost drooled when I saw it.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

JOAT said:


> I just ran across this, looking for something else, so went back to the first post. I don't have any place to store any of this, or I'd be on it in a heartbeat.
> Firewood
> 
> I was going thru town a week or so ago, and there was a tree cut down in a front yard. Not sure what it was, but it looked at least six feet thru at the base, and I didn't see any bad spots in it. I almost drooled when I saw it.


Hmmm I know someplace you could get it cut up easily. Its a bit fer though. Here is a link to it Giant Bandsaw in Action - YouTube 

That was some cherry wood I was going to burn. Had second thoughts about the firewood after joining the router forum.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have worked as a tree pruner before (when I was much younger and a lot lighter). One of the things we did was take problem trees down in peoples yard's. Most of the time they had no idea how to get rid of it other that having it cut up into firewood and hoping that someone would come along and take it away for them. Otherwise they had to pay to have it taken to a landfill. Most of the trees were native species but some were fairly exotic. If you know someone with a sawmill it's a good way to get cheap lumber.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

Chuck

Awww come on you are still young. When I was much younger and much much less wise (fool comes to mind), I use to climb tress as a challenge, all the way to the very top and swing it back and forth as far as I could. I figured if it broke I could catch some limb on the way down. I never fell though but must have worn out my guardian angel.

The way you described was the way I had to take down a couple of oaks in my yard in Florida (I hired someone). A friend a few houses down had a fireplace and wood stove for heating. We split the wood with a sledge and wedges. That wood splitter someone put up in another post would have been handy. I have heard that Florida oaks ore not good for lumber.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Ah, if I but had the space for a mill, and lumber storage. Not so many years ago, I would have built a homemade bandsaw mill, there's plenty of inspiration on-line. Now, with my joints I could never make one, so I would buy one, can get a nice one for under $10,000 (USD), even one where the operater can ride along with, instead of pushing, the saw - which I would need, as that much walking would kill me. And, of course, hire burly teenagers to do the grunt work. I would opt for a saw with hydraulics for handling the logs, no grunt work involved in that. But, since I don't have the space, it ain't happening. But for you guys that would like something inexpensive, and easily doable, found this. 
Poor Boy's Sawmill - YouTube


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

JOAT said:


> Ah, if I but had the space for a mill, and lumber storage. Not so many years ago, I would have built a homemade bandsaw mill, there's plenty of inspiration on-line. Now, with my joints I could never make one, so I would buy one, can get a nice one for under $10,000 (USD), even one where the operater can ride along with, instead of pushing, the saw - which I would need, as that much walking would kill me. And, of course, hire burly teenagers to do the grunt work. I would opt for a saw with hydraulics for handling the logs, no grunt work involved in that. But, since I don't have the space, it ain't happening. But for you guys that would like something inexpensive, and easily doable, found this.
> Poor Boy's Sawmill - YouTube


Hilarious, but it would work in a pinch. Loose a lot of the wood in the kerf, but if that is all you have… IT WORKS. He should have drilled 3 holes in the tip (away from the bearing of course) and added another guide. I noticed there was the possibility for wobble.:sold:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Those have been around for quite a while. https://www.google.ca/search?q=alas...3Noa4igLSpIG4Cg&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=861

Welcome to Logosol US - Quality Wood Processing Products

The simplest forms have been called Alaska Sawmills, the idea being that you could take the small collapsible frame and your chainsaw and hike into the wilderness and use it to build a cabin.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I am also thinking of building a boat so I am interested in what you find out. I had the same idea for the outside. Were you going to put a layer of fibreglass on the inside or just varnish the wood to seal it?


I'm undecided on how I'd prefer the inside done. I read about a wooden workboat that has about 1" of epoxy poured as the floor, for wear. The boats are intended to be used hard, so sounds like a worthwhile idea. For a pleasure boat, intended to live on a trailer, be way overkill; I would think four or five layers would do, with or without fibreglass. However, I am not intending anyone to walk directly on the inside of the hull, I would want stringers, running along the tops of the forms/braces, whatever they're called, can't think of it just now. Then varnish them, should be more than adequate, and considerable savings over epoxy/fibreglass. The boat would be covered when not in use, on a trailer, and would also toss a few small cloth bags full of salt in there, so just in case water got in, it would be much less inclined to rot, and there would be small openings, so the water would not be confined to just one area, but be able to go back and forth, and ultimately be pumped out if it gets serious. Oh yes, the exterior, and any other painted surfaces, would be exterior acrylic latex housepaint, not marine paint. Think about it; house paint is expected to last for years, and all in an outside environment, and much less expensive than marine paints. I'd paint the interior with latex paint, but I'm thinking I'd want at least 'some' brightwork, so maybe just part of it.
http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/articles.html 
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?3737-Latex-Paint-for-Boats 
And, if you want to read a bit more on the subject, do a search using 'paint boats with latex house paint' as your search phrase.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

THIS is what I want for Christmas, with the ride along seat, and the board pusher. 
Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic Portable Sawmill: Step up to High Production - YouTube

And, for the ecology freaks in the crowd. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbTNtCWXccQ


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## bdusten (Mar 22, 2013)

Mike said:


> Steve, reclaiming wood is a great thing. Someone gave me an old picnic table and we used it for a couple years until the dogs chewed it up pretty bad. I took it apart, tossed out the unusable pieces and built the picnic table condiment holder you see in photo 1 from some of it. (lots left to work with) A church near me took down a privacy fence and I offered to haul away the wood for them. The result is photo 2 where you can still see the paint to be sanded off the edge. (Lots of this left too)


Mike I love that condiment holder. That's the coolest one I ever saw.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Good articles Theo. Thanks.


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## Daikusan (Apr 12, 2013)

JOAT said:


> THIS is what I want for Christmas, with the ride along seat, and the board pusher.
> Wood-Mizer LT40 Super Hydraulic Portable Sawmill: Step up to High Production - YouTube
> 
> And, for the ecology freaks in the crowd.
> Horse powered saw mill, Belize - YouTube


I like the horse drawn version. The boy standing on the turntable must not get dizzy (a song from the ’60’s comes to mind), he stands a chance of loosing his balance. If it were me I would fall off after a couple of turns.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I just remembered where you can get new wood, free. IF allowed that is. New home jobsites. A lot of times, especially in new subdivisions I understand, leftover wood, shingles, what all, are either left on site, or burned on site. Terrible waste. Some builders will let you have it for the hauling, some will not. My older son is in AC, and often works on new houses. He occassionally runs into wood where the building is finished, and the contractors will not be returning. Mostly now tho, he gets there before they have completely finished.

Quite awhile back he was at a site where they were planning on burning several bundles of new oak flooring. He talked them out of it, used part of it, and gave me what was left. I wound up getting probably $2-300 worth of lovely oak flooring. Still got loads of it left, and still using it. This is an exception to the rule, so don't count on loading your pickup with new, free, wood.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Not just at the end of the job.

Think stages and milestones... We had to clean up our sites at different stages. We got paid from the customers at the completion of milestones/stages. 

After the foundation forms gets pulled, there's going to be a lot of 2 bys... but most will have concrete on it. This made good firewood or outside kinds of things. 

Besides framing, as the framing stage gets to the end, the electrical gets pulled in the walls, stubbed in boxes and the plumping goes in (stubbed) After framing there will be lots of 2 bys from end cuts and that was used for shoring. There will be lots of plywood and such, ends of beams. Then siding.. There will be a lot of inspection about that time, so there will be a big cleanup, before the drywall goes up and things get covered.

There will be a transition from structural to the "finishing" stage. Finishing means interior work. The drywall. Trim. Electrical gets connected to plugs and such. Plumbing gets finished and plumbing fixtures. Flooring. Cabinets. Counters. Shelves. Doorlocks and hardware... At the same time, roofing and outdoor structuteral and trim (patios, decks, pandolas, etc. Then painting, staining and finish coats... Then a last minute punch list for the contractor to finish up while there is another big cleanup... right before the final inspection. 

So, yes, free materials, usually 3 times during the building process. Sometime we took things back to the shop. Sometimes we got permission to take stuff. Sometimes we gave others that chance. And yes. sometimes pile got burned on site.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

I have checked with the foreman on sites when I saw something that I wanted and it looked like it would be burned on hauled away. Some said NO and others ask if I needed help loading it. One time I was told if I helped with the cleanup I could load anything they were getting rid of and I helped and ended up having to make 3 loads of stud and rafter cutoffs long enough to be useful and 2 1/2 sheets of plywood decking and a roll of flashing that had not been opened.


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