# Band saw



## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

I picked up a Delta SM400 not really knowing how to use one.
I've squared the table to the blade in all directions, I've put the guide blocks justttttt about touching the blade and have the blade set a whisker above the workpiece.
I've set the mitre gauge square to the table and blade.
But, no matter how slow I go, it will not cut a straight line!
I seem to remember the "beast" we had at school, you throw wood at it, and it would cut a true line! I know it was somewhat better built but!!!!
Now I know you get what you pay for, and the little delta was never meant for cutting walnut logs into 8x2 planks. Please I'm looking for what can I do to improve THIS saw, so it's usable.
I have a small shop and a 9" saw is about as much as I can get in here.
My first though is to swap out the blade to a wider cut, will make straight cuts easier I assume?
Then, the table on this is terrible, how had is it to make a decent table out of say, MDF? or 3/4 ply
What else can I do? I know there's a straight cut in there somewhere,lol


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi vapochilled

The key is to have a good SHARP Blade and the blade is tension right that's to say it must be tight,,,do this to check it put a sq. in a wooden clamp set it right next to the blade, the blade should move just about a 1/4" when you push on it...if it moves more than that retension the blade and then try it..


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vapochilled said:


> I picked up a Delta SM400 not really knowing how to use one.
> I've squared the table to the blade in all directions, I've put the guide blocks justttttt about touching the blade and have the blade set a whisker above the workpiece.
> I've set the mitre gauge square to the table and blade.
> But, no matter how slow I go, it will not cut a straight line!
> ...


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

bobj3 thank you!
The manual says for the blade supplied, tighten till the spring takes, then two turns.
Not knowing any different thats what I did.
had about 3/4 side movement.
Tightened till I got a 1/4 and it now cuts very nice.
Still think a iwide blade will help, but now it's great


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

It could be the blade also. All band saw blades will have a certain amount of lead (pull to one side or the other) caused by the set of the teeth. Some more than others. It's just the nature of the beast.


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

well it is likely to be a cheap blade, I think the saw retails for a hundred, I picked it up for about half that. A decent blade will be about $40?


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

I'm glad I am not the only person having this problem.
Mine is on a basic Ryobi (probably very similar to your Delta)
I first noticed it after I had to replace the tire on the lower wheel - was afraid I had messed something up.

I found the following chart:
http://www.bandsawblade.com/chart.htm
It indicates that blade tension and tooth set (both mentioned in posts here) are two likely culprits two issues.

I'm glad that tightening the tension solved your problem 
It hasn't helped me yet 
With the tension set until the spring is almost fully compressed (a no-no) I am still having the problem.

Given that this was a display model -- and had probably sat unused but under tension for MONTHS -- is it likely that the spring itself could stand replacing?
Or is the blade (1/8th") a more likely culprit?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi vapochilled

You'er Welcome for the small tip 

The blades you can get for band saw are many types and prices ,if you just use the band saw now and then stick with the 1/4" wide one,if you want to make small parts use the 1/8" one if you want to resaw stock get the 3/8" or the 1/2" one ,the wider the blade the straighter the cut but it will put in saw blades marks also...
It's true when the blades get older and used they will walk off to one side but out of the box they should cut true from the get go.

Here's one more tip Corey posted a link for some great videos on line, one was on the Band Saw ( tune up ) it will start a sq. one and go up all the way.

GREAT on line VIDEOs 

my link to the videos is not working so I will let Corey post the right URL..

=======
Found the right one
Podcast #22: Buying & Getting the Most Out of Your Band Saw
http://www.woodworkingonline.com/category/podcast/


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vapochilled said:


> bobj3 thank you!
> The manual says for the blade supplied, tighten till the spring takes, then two turns.
> Not knowing any different thats what I did.
> had about 3/4 side movement.
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

1/8" blades can be tricky to keep running true,,,they get bigger as time goes on,,,, they can't take the full load of the spring the norm and if they sit for a long time with the load on them they will get bigger 

You should always take the load off at the end of the day after you use them and they can't take the heat from cutting hardwood...if you look at the blade and you see that BLUE color in the blade other than the weld spot ,WELL...

It maybe time to replace the one you have with a new one, it may cut like a almost new one but if it goes off the line well it's not much good for what you want to use it for... 

Springs are springs and it's hard to damage one with just a load on it now if they get hot well it maybe time to replace it also...they do make hvy.duty springs but they are for the bigger band saws and are made for resawing the norm..the welds on 1/8" blades like to snap if the load is to high..bearing work best for 1/8" band saws blades other than the rub/cool blocks, you can get kits for most of the band saws to put bearing in for the guide blocks...guide blocks do like to take the edge off the blade and will do it if hits it one time, it's gone in a heart beat... 

=======






Drugstore Cowboy said:


> I'm glad I am not the only person having this problem.
> Mine is on a basic Ryobi (probably very similar to your Delta)
> I first noticed it after I had to replace the tire on the lower wheel - was afraid I had messed something up.
> 
> ...


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Here is a link to a great video on tuning your bandsaw properly. It may be the one Corey already posted, but if not this is well worth the time watching.

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/06/08/podcast-22-buying-getting-the-most-out-of-your-band-saw/


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## seawolf21 (Jan 19, 2007)

I know what you are going through. I have a 10 inch 3 wheel Craftsman that has to be adjusted everytime I change blades and it takes me 30 minutes to get it right. Sometimes it just won't cut straight no matter what I do. The blades for this model are 56 7/8ths they only can be bought at Sears. Other brands are 56 1/8th and won't fit on this saw. I was in Half Price Books one day looking for some woodworking books and I came across "The Band Saw Handbook" by Mark Duginske. This book is 315 pages and has everything you want to know about bandsaws. This book has it all.


Gary


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Hi vapochilled
> 
> The key is to have a good SHARP Blade and the blade is tension right that's to say it must be tight,,,do this to check it put a sq. in a wooden clamp set it right next to the blade, the blade should move just about a 1/4" when you push on it...if it moves more than that retension the blade and then try it..
> 
> ...



Vapochilled,

DO NOT follow those instructions!

One cannot arbitrarily say 1/4" or anything else... NOT given the total distance from the bearings to the table!

I suggest getting a manual for YOUR machine to be sure you're getting it right.

There is also an old saying that if you pluck the blade, it should sound like a C note... but which C... plus, you have to have a good ear.  

A 1/4" give, for a short distance, would not even yield a bass note and would be no where close to the proper tension needed.

Don't take any chances... get your manual... and be careful.

Have fun with your Band saw... you will like it!


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## reikimaster (Sep 29, 2005)

Old school (cause I'm old)...

Open the throat on your band saw. Back off the guides a LOT. Make sure your blade runs true on your wheels before you tension. Tension your blade so it's CLOSE be you know it's too loose. 

Turn on the saw. 

That blade will vibrate side to side like crazy. The saw will be noisy. Now add tension while watching the blade. You'll hit a spot where the bounce will disappear and the saw will SING. I'm not kidding. The sound changes and as hard as this is to describe, you will have no doubt in your mind when you get it. It's that obvious. Now your blade is tensioned correctly. Now bring your guides in carefully so you don't shove that blade around. Sounds complicated, but actually takes less than a minute. This assumes that your tires are in good shape and that you can easily move your guides (which you should be able to do).

As far as cutting a straight line.... let your saw tell you what's straight. You'll want to mark a line on a reasonably long piece of material ABOUT the density of what you're intending to cut. Set your fence if you're using one, square to the blade so that you can cut on that line (you're cutting the LENGTH of a piece... I usually use one about 18" long). Start your saw and start cutting. What happens? Is it traveling off that line so you're cutting a taper? ANGLE YOUR FENCE! to match that taper. That's the angle that blade wants to cut at naturally. Don't fight the blade... USE it.. listen to it. 

Oh you can crank tension so you can pluck that blade like a banjo string and you can come pretty darn close to making it cut straight with everything set at right angles. But you usually have to over-tension to do that. And on a small bandsaw, you probably won't get there at all. Some blades will naturally cut straight. I've only had a few of those.

I've been setting band saws this way for YEARS and so far it's worked every single time.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

========
========
========
vapochilled

"bobj3 thank you!
The manual says for the blade supplied, tighten till the spring takes, then two turns.
Not knowing any different thats what I did.
had about 3/4 side movement.
Tightened till I got a 1/4 and it now cuts very nice.
Still think a iwide blade will help, but now it's great"


By the way JOEY what brand name of band saw do you have ?????


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Joe Lyddon said:


> Vapochilled,
> 
> DO NOT follow those instructions!
> 
> ...


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Thanks -
I admit to knowing next to nothing about band saws.
I had only used two others -- one in HS wood shop and one in a furniture factory one summer. Both of those were monsters -- and all I had to know about either was where the power button was and how to follow a line.

I had read the recommendation to take the tension off when it wasnt being used --- 
I figured the reasoning behind this was that a spring under constant tension would loose its 'spring' Hadn't thought about the blade stretching.

I knew this one had likely been under tension 24/7 for months.
To the point that there was apparently a weak spot on the lower tire.
About the third time I cut with it -- the tire snapped.

Anyway -- sounds like the first thing I should try is a new blade.
Thanks again.




bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> 1/8" blades can be tricky to keep running true,,,they get bigger as time goes on,,,, they can't take the full load of the spring the norm and if they sit for a long time with the load on them they will get bigger
> 
> ...


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Bob N said:


> Here is a link to a great video on tuning your bandsaw properly. It may be the one Corey already posted, but if not this is well worth the time watching.
> 
> http://www.woodworkingonline.com/2007/06/08/podcast-22-buying-getting-the-most-out-of-your-band-saw/


Vapo yes, watch the video shown on the link Bob Noles posted. Doug Hicks of Woodsmith Magazine shows how to tune up the bandsaw and also how to test for the proper tension using the 1/4 deflection method. Doug has used a band saw for years and uses a lot of 1/8 and 1/16 blades in his castles. He gives some great tips on how to choose the proper blade for the job as well. 

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

reikimaster said:


> Old school (cause I'm old)...
> 
> Open the throat on your band saw. Back off the guides a LOT. Make sure your blade runs true on your wheels before you tension. Tension your blade so it's CLOSE be you know it's too loose.
> 
> ...


These are the best instructions given so far, IMHO.

One thing to mention... if your blade has large amount of drift in it, check to be sure the blade is in the CENTER of the tires and not more forward or backward off of Center.

I have a Grizz.. G0555 w/ risers... Works great! This machine and the Router are my two favorite machines I own.

Oh, Bobby j3 baby... what kind of BS do YOU have?? 
(I'm not sure if I saw one in your shop or not...)

The point I was trying to make is:
A 1/4" deflection in the middle of a 12" length of blade is one thing...
A 1/4" deflection in the middle of a 6" length of the blade is another...

So, just becareful with the machine you have...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Ok Joey

I will show you mind now you SHOW me yours 
and I do mean SHOW me yours... ,, not a Grizzly number
and I call you...


http://www.routerforums.com/55077-post12.html
http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/show-n-tell/8302-my-shop-7516.jpg
http://www.routerforums.com/55029-post1.html


=============


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Now Bj, I know they say brush your teeth regularly, but this is extreme.....

http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/show-n-tell/8342-my-shop-7540.jpg


... and I love it    :sold:


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

do you two wanna get a room? 
Thanks for all the help, I've been "playing" all day. The blade does indeed have a natural drift, towards the front of the table.
I simply clamp a straight edge and kicked the end over a little to compensate.
Ran a cut through a piece of trim molding, abot 3" high, seemed to do it ok.
I will pick up a wide blade for resawing, but this saw really does not have the oomf for ripping 2x Maple 
But I can see a use for it, since I setup the blade better, it does cut very nice curves.
like any tool, and I know this, it will take lots of fire wood to learn it's in's and out's. Not expecting miracles from it, but it will be another tool I can call on.
I am a member of a few forums, but the advice I get here is the best, and the merry banter is a good thing too.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Bob

Many want to know why the blade will not track right and saw dust on the tire will build up and fill up with pitch and the blade can't stay on the dead center of the wheel... 

I saw this tip on one of the videos but all I had on hand was a tooth brush and I said OK lets make them work... 

The one on the bottom wheel is about the same setup but I was able to bend it and a right angle to the wheel because there is a bit more room below...

Works great to keep the tire clean..  and keep the blade tracking true...


============


Bob N said:


> Now Bj, I know they say brush your teeth regularly, but this is extreme.....
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/attachments/show-n-tell/8342-my-shop-7540.jpg
> 
> ...


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

OK guys, let's get back on track   It wouldn't be fair to Vapo to have his thread shut down and closed. 

Some very good band saw info posted here. A band saw will be my next purchase. Sounds like you goter set up and humming Vapo! 

corey

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Sorry Vapo 

Didn't want to get off track with all the BS if you need any help PLEASE just ask and many of the members will jump in and help.. 

=========


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Sorry Vapo. . .


Didn't mean to hijack --
Sounded like Vapo and I were having almost identical problems - 
on almost identical (though differently branded) saws.
Thought the questions kinda 'dovetailed'.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Drugstore...

Sounded like that to me... how can you hijack a thread when you have something in common with it?   I thought that was the idea... talk about it... the more with the same problem, the better. 

I just had to clarify something that I saw that was inaccurate and could be unsafe if explicitly followed.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

No issues Cowboy, you indeed did have the same problem, like I said some good info in this thread.

Corey


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That was a very interesting band-saw link Bob, I may actually attempt something other than trimming. My big problem, even though I'm well into retirement is that there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do all that I have planned.


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Many want to know why the blade will not track right and saw dust on the tire will build up and fill up with pitch and the blade can't stay on the dead center of the wheel...
> ============


I bought a new blade -- and went back through all the standard setup as described in the manual (and discussed here). Whether it was the new blade - or whether I was more careful with the setup this time - or both - it does cut a little straighter. Still SOME lead in -- but if I hold tight to the fence and feed slow -- much better than before.

STILL having some tracking trouble.
When I use the straightedge to be sure the wheels are coplanar -- the blade rides to the outside of both wheels.
But to get it to the center of the bottom wheel -- I have to track it almost to the inside edge of the top.

I have replaced the bottom tire (original snapped). I'm wondering if it might not be a good idea to replace the top tire as well. Feeling of it -- it _seems_ to be low on the outside -- where the new tire on the bottom feels pretty flat.

NOTE on brushes -
As inexpensive as this saw was -- one 'extra' feature they did include - was brushes for both the top and bottom tire.
INTERESTINGLY -- the top tire seems to stay clean -- the bottom tire (the new one seems to KEEP a layer of dust along the track of the blade. I can rub it off -- make a couple of cuts and it is back -- stuck tightly to the wheel. Is this as strange as it seems??


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Cowboy,

INTERESTINGLY -- the top tire seems to stay clean -- the bottom tire (the new one seems to KEEP a layer of dust along the track of the blade. I can rub it off -- make a couple of cuts and it is back -- stuck tightly to the wheel. Is this as strange as it seems??


This would not be strange as 100% of your dust is being forced downward by the blade into the lower wheel well where it accumulates and packs in more so than in the upper section. Even with good DC, a certain amount of this is very normal to some extent.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

I know the norm is to read the manual and do what they tell you to do BUT not all blades are made the same way, that's to say when they weld them up they are not welded the same way....or the same size as they should be some will be shorter and some will be longer not by much but all it takes is a 1/16" to get it out of Fac. setting,,, that's why I aways recommend crank it up all the way....1/4" thing....

But b/4 you run and use the new blade clean the wheels (belts) I use paint thinner it will remove most of the old tire build up and pitch left on the belt from cutting Pine for one of the woods...plywood for one more...


Then with care turn the wheel by hand and set the wheel/blade to run true with the blade in place, once you have done this and again with flip the power switch on and off to check the blade ,that' it's running on dead center of the wheel(s) then once the blade is running true set the rub blocks or bearings and then off and on with the switch, if it's running true put the guard covers back on and run a test cut with some hardwood, once that's done find a small hone stone and let it ride on the back side of the band saw blade for just a bit...don't push , just let it rub on the blade,(round the back side just a bit) once that's done crank up the blade one more and check it....if it's OK take a marker and mark the knob or threaded rod ... now if you are done with the band saw,back it off... I use a block of wood cut to just the right height so I don't need to play with it when I need to use the band saw again...


==================


Drugstore Cowboy said:


> I bought a new blade -- and went back through all the standard setup as described in the manual (and discussed here). Whether it was the new blade - or whether I was more careful with the setup this time - or both - it does cut a little straighter. Still SOME lead in -- but if I hold tight to the fence and feed slow -- much better than before.
> 
> STILL having some tracking trouble.
> When I use the straightedge to be sure the wheels are coplanar -- the blade rides to the outside of both wheels.
> ...


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Bob, didn't understand the block of wood and marking the knob or rod. Can you elaborate a bit more? Are you talking about marking where it is properly tensioned? Don't understand how the block of wood fits in 

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Corey

" properly tensioned? " = yes,, I just came in from the shop but I will take a snapshot of it on Sat. it's a smiple block of wood, that's lets me sit it on the knob and the frame ....
At one time I marked the rod that came out of the knob but it would be lost over time....so I made a stick to do the same thing and I just hang it on the back side of the band saw..


==============


challagan said:


> Bob, didn't understand the block of wood and marking the knob or rod. Can you elaborate a bit more? Are you talking about marking where it is properly tensioned? Don't understand how the block of wood fits in
> 
> Corey


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Corey
> 
> " properly tensioned? " = yes,, I just came in from the shop but I will take a snapshot of it on Sat. it's a smiple block of wood, that's lets me sit it on the knob and the frame ....
> At one time I marked the rod that came out of the knob but it would be lost over time....so I made a stick to do the same thing and I just hang it on the back side of the band saw..
> ...


Thank you Bj, that would help. I am considering a bandsaw... very, very soon 

Corey


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

I found this info while searching another site. Most have heard of Lonnie Bird. He uses a guage for tension but since that costs 300.00 he says use the 1/4 flex test...just as Doug Hicks advises in the Woodsmith videos. 

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00013.asp

Here is one from Timberwolf using the flutter method.. This sounds like the method Reikimaster uses. 

Bandsaw Tune Up Link:
http://www.woodcraft.com/articles.aspx?articleid=223

another:
http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Band Saw Tune-up Dec 03.htm

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Corey

Here's some snapshots of the adjusting/adjustment block


easy one to make and will save hours of setup time on the band saw...once you have it set....for the right adjustment ,this block will do both adjustments.

======================



challagan said:


> Thank you Bj, that would help. I am considering a bandsaw... very, very soon
> 
> Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Corey
> 
> Here's some snapshots of the adjusting/adjustment block
> 
> ...



Bob,

Is that block of wood just to keep track of your Tension / non Tension settings?

If so, I do it very easily on my G0555... Once I get it tensioned, I merely push a lever up to detension the blade... and pull it back down to get it tensioned & ready to cut. Works like a charm!

My band saw is right up there in "favorites" along with the router.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

I got yah Bj, a go-no-go gauge. Thanks for taking the pics. Joe, not all band saws have a detensioning lever. 

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

challagan said:


> I got yah Bj, a go-no-go gauge. Thanks for taking the pics. *Joe, not all band saws have a detensioning lever. *
> 
> Corey


Corey,

I realize that... I merely mentioned it for the people "considering" a band saw... it can be a piece of cake.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Bj,

Now that is a cool idea if there ever was one. You are forever coming up with the best jigs and fixes to make life easy in the shop and save money to boot. Looks like I'm going to have to save this one in my reference file beside the many others I have from you  With winter coming these will make great small projects on those dreary days.


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

Who knew I'd open such a can of worms 
Great advice all, and clearly much of it needed to be said, judging by the thread length.
Looking at mine and DCs saw, we have very similar saws, I have now put on a 3/8" blade. Rigged up a brush on the lower roller. and through trial and error, found the correct tension to apply for a straight cut.
Despite costing me less than a good night out, it cuts very well with the bigger blade.
I can see it being used far more than I had imagined.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

vapochilled said:


> Who knew I'd open such a can of worms
> Great advice all, and clearly much of it needed to be said, judging by the thread length.
> Looking at mine and DCs saw, we have very similar saws, I have now put on a 3/8" blade. Rigged up a brush on the lower roller. and through trial and error, found the correct tension to apply for a straight cut.
> Despite costing me less than a good night out, it cuts very well with the bigger blade.
> I can see it being used far more than I had imagined.



Very good!!

I have found that I look to the band saw quite often... my choice over the TS most of the time. I'm sure you will like it too.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Excellent Vapo, glad you got'r fixed up. Your post got me off my ass and I had been on the fence and purchased a band saw last night. Pics to follow. All this info has helped me greatly, good post!

Corey


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

Glad my ignorance could help 
Main reason I'll take it over the TS is noise, my shop is my garage right under the living room. With a two year old sleeping in the evenings, my only "free" time is after bed time,lol, so I make as little noise as possible and the band saw fits right into that


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