# How necessary to lock down that plate?



## TeamTurpin (Oct 17, 2012)

Hello all. This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for a little while.

I've got a question for you. My ancient, home-made router table just gave up the ghost and I'm now dipping my toe into the modern world of latest-generation routers and router tables. Over the next few months, I'll be building a new router table into my table saw (because my shop is really too small for a large stand-alone table.

Here's that question. I've never used a table with a plate. If I were to come up with a couple of plate-mounted routers, could I realistically switch them in and out without screwing down those plates each time? Switching out bits each time isn't really that much of a hassle, but if I had a "dovetailing router" and a "mortising router" and "round-over router", it sure seems handy to just pull one out of the table and pop the next one back in. 

But, I just can't picture how that plate might want to move around when in use. For argument, assume this is a custom laminate-topped MDF/ply table top and routers are various 2+ hp cats and dogs that I pick up here and there. The plates might be aluminum or some other material conducive to easy removal and replacement. 

This isn't really a firm need; just pondering and planning. Thoughts?

John
Guthrie, OK


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

John, one night I sat and watched my router table for about 2-1/2 hours. Never once did the router/mounting plate try to levitate out. :sarcastic:

Reasons for fastening a mounting plate down would include using a plunge router with the springs left in it,(a poor choice) a tilting top table or installing it in a horizontal table.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Mine is held in by gravity alone and I have had no problems to date. Between the weight of the router and the down force of the work the system seems perfectly stable *VERTICALLY MOUNTED*. As Mike stated if you plan to move out of vertical you'll need to secure it somehow.

GCG


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I 3rd what Mike and Pat said. Besides gravity working for you, you are usually putting some down pressure on your work piece. 

If you don't lock the router down it is easy to pop the whole assembly out of the table to make bit changes and basic height adjustments. Much easier that way. You can also use the router and plate to edge rout by hand which is more stable.


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## TeamTurpin (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks for those comments. 

Here's another reason why I'd like to be able to pop that router out. I've never had a combo table saw / router table before. I tend to go back and forth between those two tools and it sure seems like a hassle to have to remove that router bit (or crank it all the way down) every time I want to use the saw. So far, the collected opinion sounds promising. (But I do realize that I'm breaking some safety rule.)


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I was also going to mention that I am not a fan of adding a router to a table saw for several reasons. One is that the TS fence is not made for routing. You will need to add a fence suitable for routing to the TS fence. Another, unless you put it close to the end of the extension, is that the fence runs the wrong way. You want to face it not have it run away from you on one or the other side. This puts you reaching over the bit. Last is that you can't always leave one tool set up while you use the other one.

You could make a table top router table. Or you could make a floor standing model that has fold up legs that would make it only about 4" thick when stored. You can buy those steel fold up legs for about $25 to $30 at many hardware stores. I would just drill holes through the locking mechanism so that you can pin it when you are using it.

I have 2 table top tables and 1 floor model and I prefer both types for different jobs.


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## TeamTurpin (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks, Chuck. I've stood there looking at my TS and scratching my head for weeks. The new router table would have miter/T- tracks embedded to handle fences, etc.. Ideally, when using the TS, I'd just remove the fence and pop out the router/plate. Then, replace that stuff when I get back into router mode.

Space is a real issue. In my last home, I had a 24 X 20 shop and had plenty of room. In my new home, I'm squeezing that shop into a 16 X 12 space. I've been planning on a standalone router cabinet on casters, but my latest decision to add a lathe made that impossible. Just no room. So, I'm leaning toward a TS-based router table until that proves impractical. I'd give a link to my workshop project, but I have to post here 10 times before I can insert a URL.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Space was an issue for me as well and I ended up going for the insert.



















It's working out very well. The TS fence is 80%-90% usable with the router fence attached with the only restrictions being tall items that would be blocked by the dust port and retention of setups if you go back and forth (TS to RT). I've done successful edge shaping with a zero clearance insert, edge jointing using shims on the outfeed side, and general routing with or without the fence. The router plate or the entire insert can be easily removed to allow for full use of the TS's table capacity.

GCG


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Iam very new to routing, and far from any stores that have a good selection, over 300mile round trip.
Just to get started, I mounted a router into one of my table saws.
I found a used PC 890 router at a yard sale with a few cutters.
I made everything, as I have a small machine shop.
For the Beismeyer fence on this saw, it had these fence mouted rollers called "Board Buddys", I used the brackets, made holders that slide into brackets for attaching boards to this saw fence, its rock solid.
In the photo, I have a pile of boards stacked up, Iam just trying various set ups to later decide what I want to do.

I was going to have lock downs for the router plate I made, but found its not needed.
The router plate is machined out of 1/2" steel plate, the cutter opening, I cut it with a step for any further inserts I may need.

Just a start for me, but, it should be good for a few chuckles anyway.


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## lowcrust (May 2, 2010)

Nice, love that plate!


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

TeamTurpin said:


> Hello all. This is my first post here, but I've been lurking for a little while.
> 
> I've got a question for you. My ancient, home-made router table just gave up the ghost and I'm now dipping my toe into the modern world of latest-generation routers and router tables. Over the next few months, I'll be building a new router table into my table saw (because my shop is really too small for a large stand-alone table.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the forum, John.

I have never locked down the mounting plate in any of my router tables.

For the reasons explained above, it is not necessary.

I do remove the springs from my table mounted routers (2 Tritons).


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

John, another option would be to build a router table that you sit at. This would be low enough to store under one of the saw table wings. This is how I built my first table and it was perfect for use with one of the cheap office swivel chairs. This way you eliminate the need to change set ups when switching from the saw to the router and back.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I only added one screw with a wing nut on my plate because my table top is hinged and I tilt it up for bit changes. It tends to want to fall out when I'm applying pressure to undo the collet.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Sawdust Don said:


> Iam very new to routing, and far from any stores that have a good selection, over 300mile round trip.
> Just to get started, I mounted a router into one of my table saws.
> I found a used PC 890 router at a yard sale with a few cutters.
> I made everything, as I have a small machine shop.
> ...


If anything lift that plate out--screwing it down would not have helped!! I'm guessing that it hasn't warped?? Great work.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Don, I have a couple of high powered rifles, but nowhere near powerful enough to hurt that plate. My 1/4" acrylic plate seems pitifully puny by comparison.

John, I believe that every table saw should have an out feed table to both to make the saw safer and for accuracy when cutting long pieces and panels. If you build a cabinet (an open one, not a closed one- and that's another discussion) and make it the same height as your table saw, you could use it as an outfeed table which would help justify the use of that space.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Mike said:


> John, one night I sat and watched my router table for about 2-1/2 hours. Never once did the router/mounting plate try to levitate out. :sarcastic:
> 
> Reasons for fastening a mounting plate down would include using a plunge router with the springs left in it,(a poor choice) a tilting top table or installing it in a horizontal table.


Nicely said Mike, I use a home made plate that is 10mm aluminium and it is bolted down, it may want to go astral travelling but I refuse to let it, so far my will has prevailed, I often set up two or three routers in different ways for hand held work to save the break down and set up time but I never wanted to have any type of quick change over in the Router Table as when I set that up I run more meters of material than I need as I just don't want to find out that I did not run enough and I have to get that set up again. NGM


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

TeamTurpin said:


> Space is a real issue. In my last home, I had a 24 X 20 shop and had plenty of room. In my new home, I'm squeezing that shop into a 16 X 12 space. I've been planning on a standalone router cabinet on casters, but my latest decision to add a lathe made that impossible.


What the other guys said on plate shifting. Mine are all 1/2" plywood, and don't shift, period. 

My shop is 8X12. My router table is on a second shelf down, so I can sit using it. Above it is my bandsaw. On the other side is my drill press, and below that is my scrollsaw, also so I can sit using it. I shift my 37" wood lathe stand when I want to use it, same with benchsaw on a stand. Then there's the arc welder, etc., etc., etc.


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## TeamTurpin (Oct 17, 2012)

JOAT said:


> My shop is 8X12. My router table is on a second shelf down, so I can sit using it. Above it is my bandsaw. On the other side is my drill press, and below that is my scrollsaw, also so I can sit using it. I shift my 37" wood lathe stand when I want to use it, same with benchsaw on a stand. Then there's the arc welder, etc., etc., etc.


Okay. I feel better knowing that I'm not the only guy out there stuffing a small room full of tools. Very innovative, JOAT.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

TeamTurpin said:


> Okay. I feel better knowing that I'm not the only guy out there stuffing a small room full of tools. Very innovative, JOAT.


:haha: Not so innovative as lack of choice.  When I got my shop it was what I could afford, that or nothing. I figured if I tried to save for a larger shop, it probably wouldn't happen. And I was right as it turned out, so did the right thing by taking what I could get. Actually I don't really need a lot of space to actually work in, maybe 2X3 feet or so usually, and that's pretty easily come up with by shifting some things around. If I had it do to all over again, I'd put in a lot of drawers, rather than most of the shelves. And I'd put on at least one more coat of paint, gloss paint, including on the floor. I took what I could afford, and try to stay properly appreciative of the fact that I HAVE a shop, so many guys don't.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

There could be some other reasons (besides safety) to lock down the plate.
e.g.
1. If plate is not 100% tight fit to table - sideways acuracy of bit to fence distance may be compromised. 
2. Vibrations of plate relative to table - if exist.

Screwing/unscrewing 2 countersunk screws can't be that hard - just use a cordless drver for speed.


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## ClayW (Oct 20, 2012)

Mike said:


> John, one night I sat and watched my router table for about 2-1/2 hours. Never once did the router/mounting plate try to levitate out. :sarcastic:
> 
> Reasons for fastening a mounting plate down would include using a plunge router with the springs left in it,(a poor choice) a tilting top table or installing it in a horizontal table.


Just purchased and set up the frequently recommended Grizzly router table and installed a new Hitachi M12VE utilizing a Router Raizer instead of a lift. This is my first router table and following the instructions with the Router Raizer I left the springs in.

This is contrary to your observation and I wonder why they tell you to leave them in if its a poor choice?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Clay, using a Router Raizer is one unique situation where leaving the springs in is fine. This is because of the screw type adjustment. If a plunge router is installed in a table and you attempt to plunge it by hand the mounting plate will lift out of the table unless secured down. This is why the springs are most often removed when table mounting a plunge base. Make sense now?


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Mike said:


> Clay, using a Router Raizer is one unique situation where leaving the springs in is fine. This is because of the screw type adjustment. If a plunge router is installed in a table and you attempt to plunge it by hand the mounting plate will lift out of the table unless secured down. This is why the springs are most often removed when table mounting a plunge base. Make sense now?


Leaving the springs in with the Router Raizer should help eliminate backlash. However it will still take more effort to raise the router against the spring tension, and will likely cause more wear on the router raiser mechanism.

The backlash can also be mitigated to a large degree by lowering first, and then raising to final cutting height. This can be said of all router lifts, not just Router Raizer! YMMV(your mileage may vary!).


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Easy rule ,if the springs are in place screw the plate down if not let it float the mass of the router will hold it in place ,most of the time the fence is on top of the plate.

====


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## ClayW (Oct 20, 2012)

Mike said:


> Clay, using a Router Raizer is one unique situation where leaving the springs in is fine. This is because of the screw type adjustment. If a plunge router is installed in a table and you attempt to plunge it by hand the mounting plate will lift out of the table unless secured down. This is why the springs are most often removed when table mounting a plunge base. Make sense now?


Sure does Mike. Thanks


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## FLOUNDERMAC (Sep 22, 2012)

*tall bits are an exception*

I agree that in almost all jobs, tie down is not needed. The exception that I discovered was pattern routing a 2 1/2" oak leg. I had problems with the straight pattern bit gouging the leg because the plate was not attached to the table or at least I think that was the problem. I changed to a spiral bit and had no more problems.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Spiral blades slice, straight blades chop. The mounting plate is not part of the equation.


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## rodand1 (May 6, 2012)

I've never had a problem with not locking down the router plate. The weight of the router hanging from the plate is enough to keep it from moving.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Hi John, I am surprised no one has mentioned the $13 Grizzly plates. These would fit what you are wanting to do perfectly. They are great plates and would be ideal for swapping.

PT10432047 ROUTER MOUNTING BOARD


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## millman#1 (Jun 24, 2012)

A router plate that is not locked down *WILL* always have the potential to move! From an engineering standpoint it makes complete sense to lock it down for both safety and performance.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

millman#1 said:


> A router plate that is not locked down *WILL* always have the potential to move! From an engineering standpoint it makes complete sense to lock it down for both safety and performance.


Most of the time the fence is over the plate and will prevent it from lifting. Also, you are generally pushing down as well as forward when you feed material into the bit. If the plate is well fitted it won't move laterally. It may be sound engineering to lock it down but many of us have not and have had no problems doing so. 

Really, from an engineering standpoint, we're dealing with torque, which would want to lift only the side you're feeding from. If you lifted a board just off the table so that the plate could lift, and you pushed against a bit (not spinning of course) I think you might damage the arbor in the router or the bit shank before the plate lifted.


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## millman#1 (Jun 24, 2012)

My concern with not locking down the plate would be more about getting "chatter" when taking a decent size cut. That "chatter" depending on how severe can easily move that heavy router & plate, causing potential kickbacks, possible loosening of the bit in the collet, or just a lousy cut. Running up against a bearing bit probably would have less chance of moving or at least once the cut is started and the plate moves into the corners of the recess it's sitting in. I say why take a chance, you can lock it down with just 2 opposing screws.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*There may be 'potential'......but.?*



millman#1 said:


> My concern with not locking down the plate would be more about getting "chatter" when taking a decent size cut. That "chatter" depending on how severe can easily move that heavy router & plate, causing potential kickbacks, possible loosening of the bit in the collet, or just a lousy cut. Running up against a bearing bit probably would have less chance of moving or at least once the cut is started and the plate moves into the corners of the recess it's sitting in. I say why take a chance, you can lock it down with just 2 opposing screws.


I can understand your concern, Mike, however in the time I have been on this and other forums, I have never heard of an insert plate coming out of the table during use.

In fact, the whole principal adopted by Bob and Rick is to have the plate unsecured so that it is easy to remove for cutter changes etc.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

jw2170 said:


> I can understand your concern, Mike, however in the time I have been on this and other forums, I have never heard of an insert plate coming out of the table during use.
> 
> In fact, the whole principal adopted by Bob and Rick is to have the plate unsecured so that it is easy to remove for cutter changes etc.


James i have the router work shop table and plate and a bosch 1617 router and never have any problums , the plate fits snug and you have to bang on the router from under the table to get it to come up, I also have all the fences, now if you have a table plate that is a sloppy fit you may have problum's, but the weight of the router will hold the plate in place , the fence hold's the plate down, but if you are just using the get off and get on pin than i guess maybe ?? i bet still no problum, so lock it down if you want . i been doing router work for so many yrs i forgot when i started good luck


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Yes Del, belts and braces may be OK , but not necessary. IMHO.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I loosened the fit of my Router Workshop plate by lightly sanding on the corners. (It doesn't take much) Why you ask? This is my main table and the parade of router bits through it for different jobs demanded it. Zero problems so far. When the router is on the torque from the motor applies enough pressure to keep it from moving.


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## millman#1 (Jun 24, 2012)

All I'm saying is if you can physically get movement out of it I would definitely lock it down. If you've got a good snug fit then you shouldn't have any problems.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

millman#1 said:


> All I'm saying is if you can physically get movement out of it I would definitely lock it down. If you've got a good snug fit then you shouldn't have any problems.


Were it really a problem, one should probably never use a router hand held! Think about it:yes2:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, there is about 1/16" of play in a table I took in trade with a Rockler aluminum plate. I was planning on shimming it but it has never twitched and the cuts are always right on the money.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

Mike said:


> Mike, there is about 1/16" of play in a table I took in trade with a Rockler aluminum plate. I was planning on shimming it but it has never twitched and the cuts are always right on the money.


mike that is what i did on my router work shop plate it fit real tight so i just sanded the corner's just a little and i still hit it like bob did and rick also works for me del


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