# Let's begin at the beginning



## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Harry 
Has kindly sent me a pic he came across and I would be interested in comments from members of the forum and those visitors to the forum. 
Here is an invitation to all the visitors to the forum to register and have a say.

This is the method I use?

or

I would use a safer method.

I would be interested in how many members would use this method to rout rails similar to the ones used to create the plant stand.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

I dashed off this morning to do some gardening and I had a thought did I post the pic Harry sent
My apologise to all here it is
Tom


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Tom I have always made legs with a cardboard template, used my jig saw to cut them out and then put two together and use the drum sander on my drill press. Fairly safe but slow. 

With that said, I have never done any routing as shown in the pic you posted. I know that it is used fairly widely for patter routing. Bob and Rick perform lots of operations like that. I don't have any of those kind of clamps in my shop for one thing. It seems like this is a useful method used by many. Are you saying that this is not a safe method?

Corey


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Corey? Do you see the bit sticking up with no guarding? This is the point Tom and Harry are getting at: an unguarded bit is dangerous. It is very easy to slip and lose something that should remain attached for life. This is a major point in why Tom promotes using guide bushings and jigs, there is no way you can contact the bit.

Tom, my answer is to have a piece of wood with a plastic guard shield on the end clamped to the table so it extends over the bit. Quick, easy and safe.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Mike said:


> Corey? Do you see the bit sticking up with no guarding? This is the point Tom and Harry are getting at: an unguarded bit is dangerous. It is very easy to slip and lose something that should remain attached for life. This is a major point in why Tom promotes using guide bushings and jigs, there is no way you can contact the bit.
> 
> Tom, my answer is to have a piece of wood with a plastic guard shield on the end clamped to the table so it extends over the bit. Quick, easy and safe.


Hi Mike, yeah I saw the bit sticking up there. I wasn't sure what exactly Tom was trying to say. It definitely could cause injury but woodworking is inherently dangerous all by itself. I see a lot of woodworking videos etc. demonstrating this very method. My dovetail jig uses a very similar operation actually. So I guess for me it doesn't throw a red flag up immediately. Another easy fix is to put outboard handles on the jig to keep your hands free of the bit, kind of like the katie jig. You can get all crazy with all kinds of guards etc. but the key is not to be fooled into complacency with all that, but focus at all times when using power tools and know at all times where your hands are. If you can't focus then shut the tools off and go in and watch TV. I have had those days. 

Given all of this, if Tom has a method to use the template guides to make the legs and do it safely at that I would like to hear and see more about it. Like I said, I wouldn't have used a router at all to make the legs. Maybe Tom can change my mind on that.  

Thank God, the only injury I have ever gotten in the shop was a severely cut finger that required 10 stitches...the culprit... the Table Saw. The kicker is... the saw wasn't running. The blade was about an inch above the table and I wacked my hand hard on that blade and cut my around my finger to the bone  I hit is so hard I had carbide in my finger! Since then I have always kept my blade below the table after I use it. 

Corey


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*This is the answer to routing with safety*

Corey
Yes I do consider the method posted is unsafe (In my opinion) Here is my answer to the problem. In this instance dining room chairs are being produced with the router. This was the work of one of my students (Using my templates) some one who some 8 years ago was introduced to the use of the router and at that time he produced 6 chairs.
As I said in my explanation I would produce two templates one for the inside of the leg and one for the outside. In fact I have incorporated the two shapes in one template which can be reversed to complete the second side. 
So safe I would have given it to one of my blind clients, the year before last when I was in charge of the class. Secondly by using the plunge mode we are able to produce a better surface routing in stages with a straight cutter. (do not cut all the way through). There is another approach *(operation involved)* to complete the shape. But one thing at a time. 
If you look closely at one of the pics you will see a completed leg shaped to size and also with the mortices inserted. Mortices were also put in with the router before the material was taken from the Jig.
I hope all can see and understand what I am getting at. *There is a safer method of using the router to produce such projects*


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Tom, I can see it now. Basically you need to make a large template holder first that will fit the larger item and then make the template itself. So what size of bit are you using in the router? 

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Tom,

Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.

I have to mention this... To me, it would have been easier to make a pattern out of 1/4" hardboard, mdf, or plywood real scale size, then just tape it to the workpiece which has been rough-cut on a bandsaw, and route it using a flush bearing bit getting it cut exactly to size in one simple operation.

In this case, what do you think?

I can see the guides & templates being used more when doing the 'carving' type projects.

Are bearing bits harder to get over there?

Thank you for your input.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Tom,
> 
> Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.
> 
> ...


Joe, this is what I have done in the past only with a simple cardboard and then jig sawed and cleaned up on the drum sander in the drill press. I haven't used the router. Like Norm would do I guess. What you suggest is exactly what Tom is saying is unsafe due to the exposed cutter. And it is because you could slip if you are not careful and make hamburger out of your hand. But many use this method regardless. Personally I am not a fan of pattern routing like this at all so I have avoided it and use other tools instead. My Gifkin dovetail jig is somewhat of an operation like this but much more controlled. 

With Tom's methods, I can see that it is much more in tune to making multiple items... such as several of the tables, multiple boxes of the same design, bunch of carved cabinet doors etc. A lot of time is put into making the templates etc. that in my opinion is just a little too much time spent for a one off project. And of course Tom's method makes it relatively safe for the blind to use the jig and use the router safely due to once the router is in the template they are not exposed to the cutter. 

Corey


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Tom,
> 
> Thank you for the detailed pictures of the operation.
> 
> ...


*I would like to see some more input and how to do presentations from other professionals out there on the forum.*

Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

challagan said:


> Tom, I can see it now. Basically you need to make a large template holder first that will fit the larger item and then make the template itself. So what size of bit are you using in the router?
> 
> Corey


*Corey
That is quite correct 
The cutter size used when routing the chair backs was a 10mm straight cutter, but of course I can use a great range of cutter sizes because I have access to a 40mm Guide. When I am routing the front legs for the chair next week I will be using a 33mm Dish cutter as an example.  * 
*Tom*


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Noticing that the bit IS sticking way up in the air, however, anyone notice the bearing on the bottom side of the bit? Other than using a shorter style of bit or as Tom would use, guides, what else is there? Only other thing I noticed not in the pic. is, where's the guide pin?


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Okay Tom, you have stired the waters of my curiosty. I would like to know more about templates and what is involved in making them. Is there anything you can point me too that explains the process of making a template? Perhaps a "how to" article or something?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Bob N said:


> Okay Tom, you have stired the waters of my curiosty. I would like to know more about templates and what is involved in making them. Is there anything you can point me too that explains the process of making a template? Perhaps a "how to" article or something?
> 
> *Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.*


*
Bob
That's what I am all about. Introducing new routing techniques. Have a look at the sticky 'Introduction to the use of template guides'
Keep in touch
Tom*


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Tom, i would like to see more on how you design a template and bring it to the final template ready to use in your holder etc. Materials, tools used to make the template, design etc. 

Corey


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Hamlin said:


> Noticing that the bit IS sticking way up in the air, however, anyone notice the bearing on the bottom side of the bit? Other than using a shorter style of bit or as Tom would use, guides, what else is there? Only other thing I noticed not in the pic. is, where's the guide pin?


*Ken 
You had a good question there, re 'Where is the Guide Pin?' 
Here is my explanation why the guide pin is not required in this instance 
The template is longer than the material and the bearing will be guided by this extension and give a firm lead-in.

Note; In spite of thorough understanding the method shown it is not the method I would use. I will post some information if any interest is shown by members, as I do require to make some drawings to illustrate how I would produce such templates.

Tom*


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

challagan said:


> Tom, i would like to see more on how you design a template and bring it to the final template ready to use in your holder etc. Materials, tools used to make the template, design etc.
> 
> Corey


*Corey
Have a look at the sticky 'Introduction to the use of the template guides' where the making of a simple template is illustrated.
Tom*


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

I for one would really like to see some drawings and pictures on your processes Tom. I'm what you might call a visual type person and can learn faster by seeing. Thank you for taking the time to teach a bunch of hard headed Yanks.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

curiousgeorge said:


> I for one would really like to see some drawings and pictures on your processes Tom. I'm what you might call a visual type person and can learn faster by seeing. Thank you for taking the time to teach a bunch of hard headed Yanks.


*George have you had a look at the Sticky at the top of the page. Or you may find some information on one of the blogs I have been trying out
Tom*


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks Tom. I printed your Introduction To Template Guides and if I can find time this weekend will attempt the picture frame. If successful I will post some pics... if not I will just try again. I have plenty of MDF laying around the shop.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Good luck George, be sure to post some pics!

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Tom, are you working for CMT?

This looks like your type of work... the only person I know that knows it like a science!

http://cmtusa.com/store/index1.ihtm...ducts.ihtml&titleimage=titles_accessories.jpg


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Tom, are you working for CMT?
> 
> This looks like your type of work... the only person I know that knows it like a science!
> 
> http://cmtusa.com/store/index1.ihtm...ducts.ihtml&titleimage=titles_accessories.jpg


*Joe you can't be serious 
As a matter of interest CMT and lots of other manufacturers are unaware of the routers potential with the use of the template guides, or they would be trying to persuade you to use them and try to sell the various cutters that can be controlled by the use of the guides. 
This system you elude to was developed a great number of years ago using one cutter with a guide attached, all they have done is add new templates.
Tom*


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

template tom said:


> *Joe you can't be serious
> As a matter of interest CMT and lots of other manufacturers are unaware of the routers potential with the use of the template guides, or they would be trying to persuade you to use them and try to sell the various cutters that can be controlled by the use of the guides.
> This system you elude to was developed a great number of years ago using one cutter with a guide attached, all they have done is add new templates.
> Tom*


Tom, yes, I was serious... Did you look at the link I gave?

Some of those designs are very close to the design you showed us when you opened the "Carving" question... as soon as I saw them, I thought of you!

I noticed something else in the designs... It appears that some of the cuts are deeper and more sloping... Starting at a "point", going deeper & wider, then getting shallower coming to another "point" like a narrow leaf.
I was thinking, the only way they could do that with a Template was to have the template grooves made at various (slanted) depths... Either that or tilt the template to the workpiece to get the variable depth cuts.

Which way do you think they did it?

How would you do it?

I was surprised to see the number of templates required for the designs... I thought there would be more required than just 3-4...

Your thoughts?


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Tom, yes, I was serious... Did you look at the link I gave?
> 
> *Joe of course I looked at the links you posted hence the reason for my answer to your post.*
> 
> ...


An excellent system saving a lot of time. The carving I attempted for the very first time was using a different method.
Tom


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Joe 
Here is the cutter
Tom


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Joe that is a neat system for carving. I liked the animal templates. This is very similar to the one Harry posted and was using in the template holder thread. I think that one was made by Jessada from the links Bobj gave me. 

You can do Rosettes easily with the Milescraft Spiro Crafter set up. Actually if you go to the Hartville Tool website you can get the Spirocrafter and the Inlay Design set in one package. I haven't got to use it yet but I think it is pretty cool and it is around $40.00

http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/12158

Corey


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

template tom said:


> An excellent system saving a lot of time. The carving I attempted for the very first time was using a different method.
> Tom


Hi Tom,

Well, that's sure a sneaky approach... clever... 

Looks very expensive too!

I didn't notice that they didn't dig out around the design to make it 'proud'... good observation!

I think I'd rather use your approach instead!  

Thank you... I hope you didn't think I was kidding / joshing / pulling your tail?


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

challagan said:


> Joe that is a neat system for carving. I liked the animal templates. This is very similar to the one Harry posted and was using in the template holder thread. I think that one was made by Jessada from the links Bobj gave me.
> 
> You can do Rosettes easily with the Milescraft Spiro Crafter set up. Actually if you go to the Hartville Tool website you can get the Spirocrafter and the Inlay Design set in one package. I haven't got to use it yet but I think it is pretty cool and it is around $40.00
> 
> ...


Hi Corey,

Yes, I've seen the rosette making jigs... where they tilt the template to the workpiece to control the depth as a simple "V" bit is used.

I really didn't think they would do that for these type of designs.

They used a tapered guide instead using the width of the cut into the template instead... sneaky.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Hi all
It is now over a month since the new thread 'Guide bushes and Templates' was introduced to the forum.There has been a mixed re-action to the use of the guides with some willing to give them a go and others using the method they have been using for years.
I was prepared to answer any questions on the use of the guides and hopefully I have answered the questions put forward.
Like all processes or new techniques we should be willing to at least try before making up our minds that it is no good, or what I have been doing for years is better.
I do apologize for my absence on the forum but I do look in on this thread to see if I can be of help. I have been exceptionally busy working in my workshop. Early on I posted some pics of Chair making at least the back legs of the chair. I have been working on the back rails routing from 90mm (3-1/2") x 40mm (1-1/2" approx) These rails are curved the depth of the material front and back, and I have not found a method that will produce the necessary shapes better than the method I have been using. I did not use the template guides but I used the ski mode. I must take some pics to illustrate Found a pic from a previous session
Tom


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Hello Tom,
Thanks for the pics. We know you have been busy on your DVD's and are looking forward to your finishing the project. 
I haven't given up on the template picture frame. Have you noticed, when you have something you are very interested in, life has a way of inserting things to keep you away from it? Recently, I have been dealing with the insurance company. It seems someone wanted the stereo in my truck so they smashed a window and ripped it out of the dash. Oh well! Such is life in the city. 

I do have a problem with the depth of cut even using a 1/4" template. I guess I will have to get a bit extender. Do you have a suggestion as to which would be the best to use with female template routing, or, is there some other way to solve the problem?
Thanks for your assistance.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey George

One word ( " LoJack " ) for the truck and the computer equipment 

Bj


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

curiousgeorge said:


> Hello Tom,
> Thanks for the pics. We know you have been busy on your DVD's and are looking forward to your finishing the project.
> I haven't given up on the template picture frame. Have you noticed, when you have something you are very interested in, life has a way of inserting things to keep you away from it? Recently, I have been dealing with the insurance company. It seems someone wanted the stereo in my truck so they smashed a window and ripped it out of the dash. Oh well! Such is life in the city.
> 
> ...


George I am sorry to hear about the missing equipment from your truck I hope it will be settled soon.

George I have never used 'bit extender' for any of my projects. With the larger guide the chuck (Collet) will fit through to give the extra depth required. 

I see Harry purchased an extender because he was using a thicker material. I always recommend 1/2" cutters as they are that bit longer and in Harry's case they were not long enough.

My templates are usually 3/8" or 1/2" thick (9mm or 12mm) 
Thank you for taking the time to try out the method and I look forward to your final project.
Tom


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Tom, thanks for the answer and I am documenting my trials and errors with my camera so I will post some pix when finished.

Bj, I am having a new radio and alarm system installed tomorrow and I also purchased a flood light with sensor and camera system so next time they may get the radio but I will know about it and they will become the star on my latest video.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi George

That's good  ,I'm sure they will like the new radio  you just had new one installed they wait a week or two and then come back for the new one, because they got the 1st one easy.

The video will nice to show the cops so they can see who it is if they don't have a black mask on that is.  best to just put your truck in the back yard or in the garage for a bit. 
They like new stuff   George and they know you will have it replace in a week or so. 
SOB's ,I have a bud that got nailed 3 times and he gave up and put in a radio that he could just pull out and take it in the house and left the windows open just a bit on the truck.
The Amps. and the speaker boxes are bolted down with 1/2" bolts so they could not take them with out cutting the cab in two parts  

Good LUck 

Bj


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