# starting a new CNC build



## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

I have been using a Shark CNC for several years and really enjoy all that it does...but if you follow my posts some of my stuff is very large. The shark has a 24' x 24" work area, but I got pretty good at tiling... but that has some limits. So the Shark worked really hard and earned enough in the last couple months for me to buy him a big brother.

We live in Alaska so shipping a fully assembled 4 x 8 machine up here was very restrictive. Most of my work is 3 D art work designs. So we opted for a Kit CNC from CNCRouterParts.com. As there are many folks on the forum trying to decide what to do I thought it might be helpful to share the decision journey, the assembly process and some of my first tests. So tag "follow this post and I will keep you informed as this takes place.

the first image shows the kit showing up at our Warehouse in Anchorage. 865 pounds on a pallet. I ship lots of stuff to Alaska so got the good buddy deal from a consolidator. price to ship it, $165. Shipping an assembled unit from an East Coast supplier was about $2700. This kit was carefully packed and arrived in great shape. for under $10k.

The 2nd picture shows the first day of assemble. The table kit assembled with the beginnings of the CNC Machine coming together. About 10 hours of working. Their site has 3 D drawings of how it goes together, instructions and some tips to speed it up. Now I can't work on it until Friday... ( real job continues to interfere with my hobbies). So watch for the next update Friday night.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow Scott this is awesome , bet your stoked to get her running . Looking forward to seeing what you conjure up with this new table .

That shipping is ridiculously cheap imo . I bet I'd end up paying ten times more for ten times less the distance


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Scott,

Just seeing the stand I want one. I have 2 CNC Sharks, both 24x24 and it is a pain to tile a piece(easy but a pain). 

Looking forward to your build!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looking at those boxes I suspect it's going to be a bit of an undertaking assembling that bad boy.
Not something I could do in a weekend at the pace I keep . Would be educational to assemble from scratch though ,and it's the way I'd prefer to go


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Rick,

One of the neat things about how they pack the shipment is each sub-assembly is packed separately so you don't have to look through 50,000,000 parts to find the ones you need at the time.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Scott,

Make sure you keep us updated on your progress. I'm more interested in how easy (or hard) it is to assemble and operate. I got a Probotix Nebula coming and I'm scared to death hoping I'll be able to figure it out.

Did you get a spindle or router for a cutter?

When you ordered it, did you spec everything or just say "give me everything I need to fire up?"

Basic question is - can a common man build and operate it?

HJ

Loved your mantle


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## Clueless&Luke (Jan 14, 2012)

good luck with your build 

are you running it with a spindle or a router ??


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

honesttjohn said:


> Scott,
> 
> Basic question is - can a common man build and operate it?
> 
> ...


I will answer for him. YES a common man can assemble a CNC. I have done it and I help anyone who wants to do it.

Bill


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Building it is one thing. Operating it is another. It's probably more fear than anything.

HJ

Has trouble multitasking.


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## Fasteddie58 (May 18, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Basic question is - can a common man build and operate it?


I think anyone can assemble one of these CNC machines, just do not let it intimidate you. I am in this same process and assembled my machine a few months ago. Now I am back on my assembly and doing the electronics. Learning to create the drawing, generate the G code, set-up the material and run the control software sounds scary but really is not to bad. Ask lots of questions, there's plenty of experienced people here.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Oh, dang.. if a common man can do it ... I am going to need help. My biggest concern remains getting it square and level so it moves easy. parts are parts and the videos, drawings and such seem adequate. Missing is a Step 1, step 2... out line for each major component. they do tell you what order to build the big components in. But there is not much in one place on ordered steps. Having said that, it is reasonable doable. I should be back building Thursday late with some updates Friday. 

I did opt to remain with a Router for now. The Spindle would have required another $2000 plus and it would have meant a rewire of the garage. And... it is and easy ad on later once the unit tests out. Probably do that upgrade when the next router dies of over use.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Clueless&Luke said:


> good luck with your build
> 
> are you running it with a spindle or a router ??


Router


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## cjskelton (Feb 27, 2015)

Good luck, Scottart. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

*another update from this past weekend.*

Update from Weekend number two. Two more days spend on the build. The frame is up, Risers and the gantry. All the motors are attached and adjusted. I just got the cable tray installed and ran the cables back to the controller to do some testing prior to mounting the controller cabinet under the machine.

Struggled a bit getting the the unit squared and aligned. Still have some work to do. 

I had a couple problems with the 96 length. the assemble is not made of one continuous rail system, but spliced near the center. I ended up with a 1/8 curve from front to back and the actual rails are 1/8 longer than the extruded Aluminum.. so the bumpers on the end did not align. 

I ran out of time trying to get the system it initiate. All the sensor are powered, but the Mach 3 system is not talking to the motors.... i reloaded all that, and re inserted some lines of code, but no love from the motors. I will be on the internet tomorrow to see if I can figure out what I messed, than back to the shop next Friday to get it cutting wood.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

*done..... kind of.*

The basic build is done. I think I had between 30 and 40 hours getting it up and running. 

I still have some alignment stuff to tweak, and much to learn about Mach 3... but what a beast. Very impressed with what this will do .

The set up and build gets a B- in my book. The Kit gets an A+ for CNCrouterparts. every sub assembly was separately packed, and labeled accurately and simply. I ended up with zero extra stuff. ( three bolts I left off the frame because I where I put cross braces.)

The instructions were good, but... ( and here is the reason for the B-), and part of this is on me. It is a parts company , not a kit company. their instructions are by Part, so if someone just buys the part they can install it in their own design. So that left me hanging a few times when their was no "next Step" type instructions. I missed some of the loading and file uploads that needed to go into Mach and the drive card. 

But OVER all Score would be an A because I can only work on this on Weekends and Cory and CNCROUTERPARTS returned by emails on weekends, and called me to walk me through a few things I had backwards. Great company, solid machine. Attached is a picture of the first piece I carved........ A Cello wine rack I am making to donate to the local symphony fund raiser....


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

You're a better man than I am ................. so far. lol

Looks like you got a handle on it. Keep pushing forward!!!!

What software are you running?

HJ

Jealous, but trying


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

honesttjohn said:


> You're a better man than I am ................. so far. lol
> 
> Looks like you got a handle on it. Keep pushing forward!!!!
> 
> ...


I am running Mach 3. But would say more like I am walking it. Much to learn. The basics are simple. Set Zero point, load G code, hit go button. 

Aspire is the work horse for the design part.


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## rapidjohn (Sep 15, 2012)

That is a good looking project can you get the parts in the UK?
Rgarfds John


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## rapidjohn (Sep 15, 2012)

Whould you not be better with a suction table to remove the chipping and hold down the workpiece or do you not have any movement issues?

Regards John


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

I have not worked with a vacuum table before, but they look slick, especially if everything is cut from a milled sheet. Most of my works come out of rough cut lumber. So frankly, bolting them down works fine, and trying to pull vacuum on a rough piece may be problematic.. or force me to mill one side every time to get it smooth enough to hold with suction. You may see me add it latter, but for now.. clamps


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well it sure looks impressive Scott, nice work. I'm sure liking that wine rack , wow! 
Do they have a parts list to do the same? I'm a little concerned about the side rails being two pieces as I'm assuming the gantry rides on them , so they must be aligned perfectly?
Are you happy with the sturdiness of the gantry and is there anything you would order differently if you did it again ?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rainman is hooked!! Rainman is hooked!! Rainman is hooked!!

HJ

Which way will he go - Which way will he go


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Rainman is hooked!! Rainman is hooked!! Rainman is hooked!!
> 
> HJ
> 
> Which way will he go - Which way will he go


Lmao , Ya I guess I've always been a tad infatuated with cnc router tables . May have to bite the bullet someday . Might be a little soon right now but I like to learn about all my options .

Scott I went threw the site and was wondering if you bought the standard or the pro series?
I see there located close to Seatle . That's about as good as it gets as I'm not far the Spokane Washington


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

I like the unit and ran it very hard for the last ten days. Yes the split rails concern me. Having said that I will likely purchase two large steel 96" heavy channel rails and add them under the frame to insure a straight transition.. I can not defect a much of a variation from one end to the other... but I am not first a machinist.. And most of my works are artistic in nature so will not suffer from a slight miss.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

*final wine rack*

Here is the finished Wine rack sitting outside my shop, ready for the auction next week.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Scottart said:


> Here is the finished Wine rack sitting outside my shop, ready for the auction next week.


Scott that is extremely cool ! Wish I had your knowledge


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well comparing yours to there site it looks as though you went with the pro model . Any other upgrades Scott , like the longer stroke Z axis?

I emailed them to see how big of a truck box I would need to pick up . I only have the 5' box but I have the extender things inside amd I think thst gives me another foot . I do have a trailer if neccesary but it's a pain as it makes the truck feel like it's being pushed when it has no load .

Scott not to up sh#t , but I did mention that a member at the forum here from Alaska had concerns with the split rail. I was interested to get there response as I'm sort of concerned about it. If I'm picking it up instead of having it shipped ,maybe they can do the rails in one piece?
I hope they don't interpret my query as you bashing there system ?


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Well comparing yours to there site it looks as though you went with the pro model . Any other upgrades Scott , like the longer stroke Z axis?
> 
> I emailed them to see how big of a truck box I would need to pick up . I only have the 5' box but I have the extender things inside amd I think thst gives me another foot . I do have a trailer if neccesary but it's a pain as it makes the truck feel like it's being pushed when it has no load .
> 
> ...


CRP has been outstanding. I worked with Cory there and he made a few late night and weekend calls to walk me through a couple of issues I was having. They seem to have a good way of dealing with the split rail. Part of it is that the split is not exactly in the middle. When I first assembled mine i put the splits straight across from each other. I should have offset them. When I made that correction it pulled in nice and straight and solid. ...... They had a run issue with the rails that the system runs on also, but were very forthright about it ( the rails were 1/8" to long). Easy fix, just off set on one end and offset the end stops to allow for this. I like the system over all and can see myself getting another one down the road..... but I am only a couple weeks in to it at this point. And.... I am the only person in Alaska with one of these... so Cory will know my comments and concerns, as I shared them with him. He took care of me is all I can say. Great little company... and only a $165 barge shipment away from Anchorage. It all fit in my pick up truck when i hauled it out to my shop. I ordered some 96" extrusions for the lock down system.. You can see them in the long wooden crate in the first picture. The heaviest box was 86 Pounds... Good Luck...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Scottart said:


> Here is the finished Wine rack sitting outside my shop, ready for the auction next week.


Looks good, Scott. OK, we'll call it great. Is that a bunch of pieces cut out and put together, or a solid piece? I know the top and bottom are separate pieces.

Congrats on a job well done!

Let us know how much it went for.

HJ

Old guys don't get jealous .. we just admire silently


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

This picture might give you some clues how it came together.

This is shown top side down. The top was there pieces of two inch birch slabs poorly fit together. If you look close you can see that I ended up re milling the back side in order to get that piece flat for assembly.

The bottom is just cut from a 3/4 sheet of Birch plywood. The internal walls are cut from a couple of 3 slabs of birch with a little Aspire magic. I used the original profile cut out lines, than has aspire create a new line 1.8 inches in side that.. I opened up that internal line to move it away from any conflicts with the holes in the design, and that cut it up to make it fit on a the left over slabs.

Clue and paste and sand after that...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks for the info Scott . What intrigues me about this company is its actually within driving distance , well plus your review . I'm a little nervous getting it shipped as with my luck I will receive it bent . Tempting to drive right to there headquarters . Did you upgrade the stepper anything, as I see there's a lot of options in the pro series like pro rack and pinion , better steppers and controllers etc .
I guess the one controllers prewired and more plug and play


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## Fasteddie58 (May 18, 2014)

Scottart said:


> Here is the finished Wine rack sitting outside my shop, ready for the auction next week.


I am impressed with your Wine Rack, did you design this or buy the 3D Model? Let us know what the auction price went for.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Scott would this be beneficial or do the gear teeth attach on the split part anyways . Or do I have a clue lol ? 
I'm not understanding where these steel rails are as when I look at your unit all I see is aluminum .
Underneith bottom support? 

Quote from CNCRouterParts : 
If you prefer, we can provide the extrusion for a PRO4896 in full length sections rather than with a splice. However, the side rails are approximately 112" long, which will mean you'll need to get creative to fit them in a 5' truck bed. The steel rails on our PRO machines do require a splice, as 63" is about the maximum length we can heat have heat treated.


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Scott would this be beneficial or do the gear teeth attach on the split part anyways . Or do I have a clue lol ?
> I'm not understanding where these steel rails are as when I look at your unit all I see is aluminum .
> Underneith bottom support?
> 
> ...


Interesting. In the kit I have there are actually 4 splices that matter. The extrusion splices, which are made with 3 steel plates that insure that two extrusions are straight... ish. these can be off set so they are not straight across from each other. The other splice is where the steel rails butt together. The steel rails are what the V con Linear motion system runs on.. It is best seen in the V-Copn Motion system video on the CRP web site. It will make sense why a splice in that is critical. The Extruded aluminum does a great job to making that splice all but seamless... But again.. am an artist not a machinist who might puke over a few thousandths of a pump in the rail..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Scott I'll have to check out the video so I can follow this better


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Sorry for misdirecting your thread Scott.

I watched the video and I believe I'm following this now . I don't think there would be any advantage for me to get full length extrusions as if I'm correct the extrusions are the aluminum sides . 
The steel must be spliced according to them and that is the part that the rack and pinion rolls on . At least I think ? And as you mentioned this is not an issue .
. I'm really finding your choice of router tables very interesting and it helps that the companies on the west side of the continent .
I'm thinking for the small price difference that the pro rack and pinion with the nema 34 would be the way to go


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Scott I was looking on there site and seeing other builds and was thinking that the base underneith would be better for storage etc if a guy made his own structure from wood ? 
Maybe I'm overthinking this again ? 

At this point I suspect you have a few hours of use on her , and for the most part are you still pleased with the machine ?


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## Swdstmakershop (Apr 3, 2015)

CNCs are fantastic and I envy you building one so big. Anyone can build them from a kit i believe. I bought some parts from Probotix and made my own. Probably not as accurate as the kits, but a lot cheeper.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Swdstmakershop said:


> CNCs are fantastic and I envy you building one so big. Anyone can build them from a kit i believe. I bought some parts from Probotix and made my own. Probably not as accurate as the kits, but a lot cheeper.


Bill whats swayed me a bit towards Scott's build is the gantry's Z axis has 8" of travel compared to the 5" that's available on the Probotix , well that plus I'm liking the rack and pinion concept instead of lead screws .
Now whether that extra 3" of travel is important in my case I do not know for a fact , but if I get it shipped in pieces I may as well go with the kit that Scott built as it's also much closer for me to deal with .
After seeing some of the builds on there site I think I'm going to make my own bottom section as I think storage wise it would be more beneficial.
A 4'/8' is going to take a lot of real estate but I suspect if I get a 4'/4' I'm going to be disappointed at times ,and a friend of mine who likes to build bass bins for pro audio always uses 4'/8' sheets

I don't really know what I need one for but its always been in my bucket list lol


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Yes, very pleased. I am doing a 78" diameter 3" thick carved 3 D sign. on my Shark Pro the last one involved 16 tiles ( separate set up 24" square carvings). and carving hours were close to 40. This new carver is doing this in two tiles, a 46" x 82 ", and a 38 " x 82", it will involve 6 tool set ups and looks like the complete Machine time will be about 11 hours. It a 5 hour detail carve on Saturday that ran with out a hitch. I did notice a small clicking noise at the rail seem that resulted in a equally small variance in the surface of the wood. I paused the machine, loosened the rail and made a few taps to adjust how the two surfaces met. no more clicking or surface variance. Very pleased with the features that Mach offers, but I need 6 months to figure that all out. Basically easy though, set zero, load code, hit run...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks again for the update Scott . I just off the phone with Cory and am getting a quote as we speak . Nema34 plug and play ,4'8' table and 8" Z travel with a spindle motor . 
Scott I suspect your not in close proximity to neighbors so noise is not a big issue for you ? 
I opted to go with a spindle (at extra cost of course) as my main interest is 3D Art , and seeing as it takes many hours to do a 3D cut , I figure there should be a lot less noise . We all know when the bit cuts there's noise regardless , but from what I've seen on YouTube the cuts are very fine on a 3D sign etc (for the most part ) .

I would really prefer to go with a 4'/4' but it's a tough call


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

*a couple simple cutouts on the new table.*

here are a few Plywood cut outs I made for my kids.. created them in Aspire, than cut them out quick for fun and practice.. The Biggest one is two full sheets of plywood, 8 feet wide, 8 feet tall, so a two Tile cutout. I cut these three and two more out one afternoon.. than several days of painting..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

^^^ that is awesome Scott . Your kids must think they have the coolest dad in town


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

It's that making the code to load that holds things up !!!!

HJ

Gonna learn to do it if it kills me


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I just looked at those cut outs again , you've got quite the skills there Scott . That painting is quite impressive


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

yep, cutting out is one part of the deal. the other is making the models. I am a full fledge Aspire modeling fan..


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Holy smokes a Scott , I seen a parts break down of this table on cnc zone and it certainly looks intimidating . Wow are there a lot of bags full of parts! 
I should clean and organize my garage before diving into something like this . I can just see me misplacing proprietary parts all over the place 

They offer a spindle now , but im not sure if its water cooler . Are the normally water cooled?


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

yep, lots of bags of parts. all carefully labeled. Definitely want to build it in order. I left stuff sealed in the boxes until I was ready to start that section. Crazy puzzle to assemble. figure 3 to 5 days.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Probotix has the water cooled and air cooled spindle. I got the air cooled, just cause I didn't want to mess with the water part. They said all you needed was a 5 gal bucket full of water to pump it thru, but the air cooled seemed a lot easier.

Don't know how true it is, but I was also told routers have a finite life, and they are not designed for constant steady use, so if the machine will be used quite extensively, the spindle is the way to go. Hope to find out some day.

HJ

Will hit it again next week, after we get back from NC


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Probotix has the water cooled and air cooled spindle. I got the air cooled, just cause I didn't want to mess with the water part. They said all you needed was a 5 gal bucket full of water to pump it thru, but the air cooled seemed a lot easier.
> 
> Don't know how true it is, but I was also told routers have a finite life, and they are not designed for constant steady use, so if the machine will be used quite extensively, the spindle is the way to go. Hope to find out some day.
> 
> ...


I suspect the water cooled is quieter yet . The reason I say that is the water may muffle/absorb some of the noise . It does in other circumstances . 
I don't know if the one I was offered was water or air cooled. Would have to contact them again . But I don't think a bit of plumbing will kill me . Adding a vacuum table might though


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Scottart said:


> yep, lots of bags of parts. all carefully labeled. Definitely want to build it in order. I left stuff sealed in the boxes until I was ready to start that section. Crazy puzzle to assemble. figure 3 to 5 days.


I lost the crank for my V2 lift already and I haven't even used it yet. Should I be concerned ? :lol:


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> I lost the crank for my V2 lift already and I haven't even used it yet. Should I be concerned ? :lol:


YEp a little concern is good for you.. But not a lot..
:moil:http://www.routerforums.com/images/smilies/moil.gif


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

I guess I should finish up this post and show you the final set up. I build a small wooden frame to mount the control box down and under the front. And a vertical frame to hold the Laptop that i control it from. there is Dust system in the back. 

So I learned a great deal. I have shaken a few bolts loose. had one of the drive come apart because i did not get locktite on that one part. I have had a couple of tensioning devices that came loose. And I figured out how to run it past the soft stops several times. Tough machine that pretty much does what i tell it to. twice i tried to cut to much wood and ended up skipping some steps and loosing Z. 

Mach is working. It pretty much paid for itself on two large carvings when I helped me restart in the middle of a very long carving run when I lost Zero at about Vector 127678, out of 225469 vectors.. 

Good system, pretty intuitive and Way Way more powerful than my wonderful little Shark Pro HD.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks for the update Scott . Your machine looks pretty darn heavy duty to me  
(although I'm no expert ) .
Liking the dust collection you added too . I'm pretty much convinced that when the time comes I'm going the same route you did . Gotta remember the lock tight . You using the red or the blue? That red stuff is dam near impossible to get apart in the future so on our dirt bikes we always went with the blue version


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

Blue


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Thanks for the update Scott . Your machine looks pretty darn heavy duty to me
> (although I'm no expert ) .
> Liking the dust collection you added too . I'm pretty much convinced that when the time comes I'm going the same route you did . Gotta remember the lock tight . You using the red or the blue? That red stuff is dam near impossible to get apart in the future so on our dirt bikes we always went with the blue version


yep.. the Red Blue question.. its a matter of commitment.. I am a blue guy..


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