# Newbie question about making 45 degree cuts for miter joints



## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

Hi, I've just ordered my first ever router and table - the $99 dollar special from Sears!

I'm a novice woodworker. I want to use this to make keepsake boxes. I'd like to try using the router to make the 45 degree "long miters" on the ends of the boards for making miter joints.. My stock is quite thin - never more than 3/4"; usually less than 1/2".

I assume that what I need is a chamfer bit. 

Do I need to do math to calculate the "hypotenuse" of the "triangle" I want to make, and then search out different chamfer bits that are tailored to that dimension? Or can I just buy the largest one I think I will ever need and then use it on the thinner stock as well?

Other questions:

Is this the kind of operation that can be done on one pass, or is it one of those that has to be done in stages, in order to spare the bit and in order to keep the dimensions correct by "sneaking up" on the finished dimension?

How do I figure out how high to set the bit for this operation, and where to position the fence?

Did I mention I'm a newbie???


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the forum Harvey
Any champfer bit will work setting height and depth is what makes it work


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Harvey.

Buy the largest 45° chamfer cutter that will fit through the hole in your router table. Mine will cut stock up to 3/4" thick.

CMT 45° chamfer cutter ( 836.950.11) with 1/2" shank - 1 1/4".


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

When you set the chamfer to the fence it should just cut enough wood off to make the sharp edge but no more. If you are taking too much off there will be a slight gap between the out feed fence and your work could cause an uneven edge.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Let me think-- 

The way Charles explained it, you could create that 45 degree profile with a 45 degree chamfer bit or a 90 degree v-groove bit. Both will create that profile.

When you go to buy either of those bits- Ensure that you are are getting the right bit. In either style there are other differing angled profiles for chamfers and v-grooves style bits besides those. A 90 degree v-groove bit creates a groove with a valley angle of 90 degrees or a side profile of 45 degrees.

For example, chamfer bits come in 11.5, 15, 22.5, 25, 30 and 45 degree profiles... V-Groove bits come in only 60 and 90 degree profiles, but range in diameters from 1/4" to 1-1/2"...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

1 PC 1 2" Shank 2" Diameter 90° V Groove Router Bit | eBay

4pc 1 2" SH 1" Cutting Depth 45° 30° 22 5° and 15° Chamfer Router Bit Set | eBay

1 PC 1 2" Shank 2 3 4" Dia 45° Lock Miter Router Bit | eBay

2 PC 1 2" SH Window Grill Muntin Mullion Cutter Router Bit Set | eBay

6 PC 1 4" Shank Lettering and Sign Making Router Bit Set | eBay

===


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

In terms of how much to take off in one pass, in my experience, that depends on the thickness of the wood and the grain direction. With boxes the grain direction is usually horizontal around the box so that you're chamfering the end grain. End grain is more prone to tear out than the edge grain. In either case, make sure you use a backer block and test the cut on a scrap of the same wood you're making the box from. The test will not only show you if you have the fence set right but will help you determine if you have to use multiple passes.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I rout most of my mitres on the router table using a large bit as shown. the bit height and position of fence are adjusted so that the top edge of the bit is Exactly at the corner of the wood and using a large pusher, the wood is pressed firmly against the fence and the pusher which has course sand paper glued to it preventing slip. It is also important to have minimum clearance around the bit. As is shown in the shot, I've clamped a sheet of MDF in front of the fence. I rarely if ever have course to use wood thicker than 3/4" but so long as the wood is covered by the bit there won't be a problem. The mitre is routed in one cut.


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## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

harrysin said:


> I rout most of my mitres on the router table using a large bit as shown. the bit height and position of fence are adjusted so that the top edge of the bit is Exactly at the corner of the wood and using a large pusher, the wood is pressed firmly against the fence and the pusher which has course sand paper glued to it preventing slip. It is also important to have minimum clearance around the bit. As is shown in the shot, I've clamped a sheet of MDF in front of the fence. I rarely if ever have course to use wood thicker than 3/4" but so long as the wood is covered by the bit there won't be a problem. The mitre is routed in one cut.


Great picture, thanks. I assume you have to stop pushing before the sandpaper reaches the bit. Do you do something to prevent tearout on the back of the workpieces?


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

Sure a router bit will work. My question is what are you using to bring your wood to size? Table saw, circular saw? 
Why I ask is, if you have any table saw, which you will need, make a sled to do this. 
Router bits are way more expensive than saw blades. 
Any more info or pics of what you are doing?


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## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

fire65 said:


> Sure a router bit will work. My question is what are you using to bring your wood to size? Table saw, circular saw?
> Why I ask is, if you have any table saw, which you will need, make a sled to do this.
> Router bits are way more expensive than saw blades.
> Any more info or pics of what you are doing?


As a newbie I'm not allowed to post pictures. What I'm making is keepsake/jewelry boxes. Small boards, around 1/2" thick, up to 6" wide. I want to try miter joints to make the 4 corners, so that I can wrap the grain seamlessly around the box.

I don't have a shop, I work out of a spare room in the house. I cut my boards to the final dimensions with a Japanese pull saw. I thought about buying one of those very fancy Nobex miter boxes for hand cutting my 6" miters, but realized that I could actually buy a 1.75HP miter and table from Sears for less money.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Harvey, have you looked into a shooting board

A well made shooting board, a hand plane and you're good to go!

http://www.routerforums.com/twoskies57-gallery/23696-bench-hook-shooting-board.html


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The Sears miter saw might not be as accurate as the Nobex. Cutting good miters with a miter saw usually requires a quality blade and/or blade stabilizers.


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Mr. Dunn,
As everyone has indicated what you are trying to do can be done. The thing I would add is if your going to do this often I would invest in high quality bits. Carbide is best for holding an edge and cutting well.. I think Harry is right just get a big quality bit and have at it. You will learn far more from doing it yourself. Safety first. But i'm a bit curious about the table saw question. I was named for a friend of my family. His last name was Dunn. I always called him Mr. Dunn.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

fire65 said:


> Sure a router bit will work. My question is what are you using to bring your wood to size? Table saw, circular saw?
> Why I ask is, if you have any table saw, which you will need, make a sled to do this.
> Router bits are way more expensive than saw blades.
> Any more info or pics of what you are doing?


Fire65- Do not take offense = I agree and disagree...

Although I watch my spending, most my table saw blades are more expensive than most my router bits. (But Sharon still cringes when I tell her I need to buy another router bit...) Most my basic profiled router bits run between $20-$50. I have specialty bits that run just over $100. The majority of my blades runs between $80 to $225. Granted, most those blades are commercial 12" blades. I do have some basic rip blades under than, but I would not use them to make a mitered crosscut.

His miter cuts could be done with a Table Saw with the help of an angle finder to ensure he had the right angle. He could do it with a Miter saw...

But even with "my" sliding table panel saw and a $200 plus blade will a miter cut be as smooth as cutting it on a router table. An SCMS would be less time, but most don't have their's dialed in to do that accurately (for furniture or detail work), don't have the skills to get a consistently flat and smooth cut at 45 degrees without burning the wood. (I do, but I check mine every day...) You have the prospect of getting more blade flex and wander cutting the length of an edge at 45 degrees, especially for those that use a thin-kerf finish blade. And on an SCMS with small detail work, you have to figure out how you are going to hold the work securely during the cut. Either saw, you have to take care at the end of the cut to prevent breakout. You can do it and I agree these are just minor things, but still factors.

Difference in the feed rate is faster on a saw, but the difference in the setup is surely less time and the result better quality on a router table. 

I do a whole lot with my SCMC and my Panel saw. That;s how I made my living.. So, to your suggestion... Yes, I agree it can be done with a saw, but IMHO, for what he is trying to do, he is using the right tool for the job. Even on my Radial Arm Saw, where I have the choice to use a blade, shaper cutter, moulding cutter or router bit... a router bit would be the right choice on that.

I applaud your suggestion of using a sled. Either on a router table or a table saw, it is easier to control and accurately tool detail work with a sled.

Note to Harvey- To prevent breakout on tooling end grain on a saw for that cut, you would either use a backer board or you slow down your pressure and feed rate to almost zero as you finish the cut at the trailing edge. With a router table, you use a scrap piece of board as a backer and let that board be cut by the bit. The trailing edge will be supported by the backer.

With whatever tool you use- Practice on scrap, learn to use your tools and have fun. The more you practice and learn about the tools you "have"... the more accurate you can be with them, the more confident you become... and then you can figure out from that, which tool "you" could use effectively to do the different things you want to do. Whatever joining technique you use or tool to create them... A jewelry box is made from delicate pieces of wood, meant to have whatever joints fit tight and well. It is a visually detail piece of work. It takes some practice to consistently create those with whatever tools you decide use. It's that visual attention to detail that gets noticed in jewelry boxes.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Given the commitment to continuous grain, i'd seriously consider a 90 degree v-groove router bit--would cut both sides of each corner at once and the final height could be set to within an onion skin's thickness of the stock.

If I was doing it on a somewhat regular basis, i'd probably build a sled with a pair of stops to get repeatable lengths on the sides. 

earl


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

MAFoElffen said:


> Fire65- Do not take offense = I agree and disagree...
> 
> Although I watch my spending, most my table saw blades are more expensive than most my router bits. (But Sharon still cringes when I tell her I need to buy another router bit...) Most my basic profiled router bits run between $20-$50. I have specialty bits that run just over $100. The majority of my blades runs between $80 to $225. Granted, most those blades are commercial 12" blades. I do have some basic rip blades under than, but I would not use them to make a mitered crosscut.
> 
> ...


 None taken. What I am saying is, somehow this wood has to be cut to size, very hard to do with a router. As for cost, a saw blade does cost more, but will cut several thousand feet of wood. A good router bit just will not cut as near as much especially when he starts making a 45 cutting end grain.
Anyway, good luck to you however you proceed.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Harvey Dunn said:


> Great picture, thanks. I assume you have to stop pushing before the sandpaper reaches the bit. Do you do something to prevent tearout on the back of the workpieces?


I let the bit enter the pusher to prevent breakout. The pushers are usually just pieces of 2"x4" or in fact any suitable scraps that I can lay my hands on with another piece screwed on top as a handle, I usually make a couple of them at a time. Here are a few more shots that might assist you.


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## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

greenacres2 said:


> Given the commitment to continuous grain, i'd seriously consider a 90 degree v-groove router bit--would cut both sides of each corner at once and the final height could be set to within an onion skin's thickness of the stock.
> 
> If I was doing it on a somewhat regular basis, i'd probably build a sled with a pair of stops to get repeatable lengths on the sides.
> 
> earl


That is an interesting idea. Can those actually be used to seperate the board into two pieces without damage at the very pointy end(s)?


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