# sliding dovetail joints



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

What is the best way to hold/clamp a board (3/4 x 3 x 22") while trying to put in a sliding dovetail pin in the end?

I was thinking of a tenon jig?

Routed the slots ok in the legs but when I routed the pins in the rails they were short and very loose. 

I was just holding the boards up against the router fence BTW.

PS Harry, no photos yet as these were just the test pieces..

James


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi jw2170

I got the jig below from Oak-Park and I also made a shop one, but the key is to have a jig hold the stock for you..in that way your pins will come out right on the button every time..and it's very safe.. 



http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-

If you want to see a snapshot of the home made one just ask and I will dig it up and post it..

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for the legs
http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/5673-john.html



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jw2170 said:


> What is the best way to hold/clamp a board (3/4 x 3 x 22") while trying to put in a sliding dovetail pin in the end?
> 
> I was thinking of a tenon jig?
> 
> ...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Because I lack imagination James I really do need pictures to show what it is you are attempting to do so that I may possibly be able to help you.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

BJ.



> If you want to see a snapshot of the home made one just ask and I will dig it up and post it..


 yes please.

That jig looks exactly what i was after ( I like the RWW jig but can't afford that at the moment, going on holidays in 3 weeks ).

Your jig has a vertical face that I can clamp the stock to and then slide along the router fence. Are the dimensions critical?

Do you mind if I copy the jig?

Harry, I hope to get some shots next weekend.

James


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

BJ



> I got the jig below from Oak-Park


From what I have seen of the Oak-Park Jigs, they all seem to be set for a fixed width of 3/4"...

Has anyone used the mitre jig on any other thickness of timber?

James


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi James

The base plate is drilled to take on 1/2" and 3/4" wide stock, but you can use it on a bit wider stock but not less than 1/2" the norm if you use a standard 1/2" wide dovetail bit then if you use it with a 1/4" dovetail bit you use it on 5/16" and 3/8" wide stock.


" Advantages Of This System!

* No slot needed in your router table;
* Works around a guide to center and position the router bit;
* Clamp keeps pressure on the material directly over the bit;
* Makes dovetail pins for drawer slides (90 degree) or table legs (45 degree) in minutes;
* Automatically centers dovetail pins on 1/2" or 3/4" stock;
* Rotating mitre head locks in four positions;
* Predrilled pin holes for corner keys;
* 1" Brass Guide (shown in photo), Locking Ring Nut & 1/2" Dovetail Bit required but NOT included with the M053. "

===


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

BJ,

I was just thinking of how to use the jig you showed earlier.

I realised that if I clamped the stock to the front of the jig and slid the jig along the router fence, the stock would be between the fence and the bit. 

I understand this is a no no....

I might screw a piece of 3/4' mdf to the front of the jig, leaving a 1/2" gap underneath, then clamp the stock to that. This would bring the stock out to the front of the bit...

Does that make sense?

James


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi James

If you are talking about the Oak-Park jig the router table fence will not be used.. the jig has a slot down the center for a guide and that's all that's needed..the jig has a snap on fence that the stock is clamped to...

Here's a snap shot of the one I made it may make it a bit essayer to get my jig is a bit funky but it works ..


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jw2170 said:


> BJ,
> 
> I was just thinking of how to use the jig you showed earlier.
> 
> ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

James, the Oak Park jig is super quick and accurate. All the guess work is gone and the dovetails turn out perfect every time. If you need to cut just a couple you recess the bit into your regular fence and then make a test cut on both sides of your stock. Then adjust the fence as needed to get the correct pin size. I would use scrap material for the set up until it is on the money, then run your project stock.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Mike,

Re


> the Oak Park jig is super quick and accurate. All the guess work is gone and the dovetails turn out perfect every time. If you need to cut just a couple you recess the bit into your regular fence and then make a test cut on both sides of your stock. Then adjust the fence as needed to get the correct pin size. I would use scrap material for the set up until it is on the money, then run your project stock


I agree100% with you comments. If I could afford the Oak Park jig, I would order one but it will cost me about $us140 + postage to get from Oak Park.
About $A200.

This one will have to wait until next year....

I was using the regular fence but could not hold the stock level against the fence so was looking for a way to clamp it in place.

I will show some photos next weekend....

BJ,

The jig I was talking about was the leg jig . I will modify that to suit.
If I use cutting board material this should slide smoothly along the table.

Your sliding dovetail jig would take me two weeks to make...

James


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## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Hi James! I was making a similar cut just the other day and was able to make it very cleanly with just a featherboard and a perfectly square block of wood for a sacrificial pushblock approx. 8" x 8" x 3/4". Set the featherboard flat on the table and close enough to the fence to hold the board in question tight against the bottom of the fence as it passes the dovetail bit. Then grasp the fence and the board firmly with the left hand holding the board against the top of the fence. Advance the board with the square pushblock with the right hand. The square block will help keep the long workpiece straight up and down and square with the surface of the table. Move the left hand along in front of the workpiece holding the board tight to the top of the fence. The featherboard will take care of keeping it tight to the bottom of the fence. Make sure you start by making the pin a little fatter than you want, and then move the fence back little bits at a time until it fits how you want it to. Be sure that you cut both sides of the dovetail with each adjustment of course. Hope some of that makes sense to you. I dont draw pictures as pretty as BJ

Josh the Marine


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Josh,

You must have been looking over my shoulder.....

The way you described the action was identical to what I ended up doing.
There was an improvement with the featherboard and push block, but I thought if the stock was clamped to a sliding fence the result would be more even.

Will try again this week-end (with photos).

The pins were not deep enough for the slot, so I must have been lifting the stock slightly to get it to slide.

I will also check again for square ends and re-cut the ends with the chop saw.

just thought, may also try to add a teller fence.

Boy, this woodworking can be fun........

James


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## mountain monkey (Aug 17, 2008)

Good luck! I was going to also say something about a taller fence, but you just mentioned it above.

Josh the Marine


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

mountain monkey said:


> Good luck! I was going to also say something about a taller fence, but you just mentioned it above.
> 
> Josh the Marine


In my opinion you can't beat a nice tall fence.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

How about a fence that's on it's side can't get a bigger one than that the norm, plus it's safe.. 

It's a snap to make dovetail pins on this router table 
24" long ones are duck soup ( for sliding dovetail joints) 
Then just rip the stock to the right size...works great on plywood.. for book shelfs ,etc.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/horizontal_router_table.html


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harrysin said:


> In my opinion you can't beat a nice tall fence.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

BJ,



> It's a snap to make dovetail pins on this router table


Now your talking Santa Claus territory.....

James


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Harry
> 
> How about a fence that's on it's side can't get a bigger one than that the norm, plus it's safe..
> 
> ...



Hi Bob,

Correct me if I'm wrong but... $189.95?? Not bad for a Horz. RT. Not sure I'm ready to go that step... yet.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi James

The home made jig is a easy one to make and I sure you can make it a day or less 

I sometimes do get carried away when I make jigs, knobs,slots, etc.

All you need to do is put a 3/4" slot for the brass guide to run in,use some 1/4" thick MDF/plywood board, make a stop board and a right angle part to hold the stock up right and you got it done, a screw in the upright angle board will do the trick no need for all the other stuff, slots.knobs, etc.

Then you will see how easy it can be 
The key is the slot and the brass guide, it will do all the work and your parts will come right on the button every time..

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jw2170 said:


> Mike,
> 
> Re
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

Well it's bit high now , I should not say what I got mind for..  from MLCS

Rusty W.,Trap,and others on the forum made one for much less than I got mind for..

So to say you can make one for the cost of some good plywood/MDF and some plastic for the router mounting plate..

Off the top of my head I would say it would cost about 50.oo bucks or less.

Router tables ▼
http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/2949-hoizontal-router-table.html

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/5656-horizontal-table-done.html

Ken just a add on note ***
My 1st. horz. router table hung on the back side of the router table below, if you look real hard you will still see the hole for the bit on the back side of the top, so to say you don't need to build a horz.router table you can use the one you now have.. with just a little bit of rework to the router table top ...jig saw and frame to hold the router.


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Hamlin said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong but... $189.95?? Not bad for a Horz. RT. Not sure I'm ready to go that step... yet.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Bob,

I'll send you a link to a "multi-router". When you see the price... please make sure you are sitting down. When I saw the price, I was already sittin down but the chair fell over.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

*The project*

Thanks to all the members for the input to date.

Attached are some photo of today's effort.

The first photo shows what I hope to achieve.

The new router table, because I have put it on a rolling tray, is about 3' too high.
I want to replace the angle steel legs with a post and rail base.
top rails are to be sliding dovetails and bottom/mid rails are to be mortise and tenon. ( I hope) 

The second photo is the legs with dovetail grooves.

Third and fourth photos are the jig I made up today .


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Looks good JW

Your jig will do just fine and that's a neat way to hold it.. 

It's always tricky to keep the board vert.and running true by the bit.

Here's just one more way.  see pictures below ▼

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Just a note,,, I see in your pictures you only did one end of the post, now that you have it setup do the other end as well then use them for the bottom rails and then you have a place to tuck the wheels in under the frame, put in some dovetail slots going across the grain ( leg post ) so you can slip in boards to support the wheel brackets and then they are interlocking all the parts as one frame.  

A bit more work but you will end up with a real strong router table frame that you can roll anywhere.

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jw2170 said:


> Thanks to all the members for the input to date.
> 
> Attached are some photo of today's effort.
> 
> ...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The dovetails have turned out just perfect James however, I don't see why any jig was required, a large square pusher with left hand pressure against the fence is how I do that sort of cut and your fence appears to be just about tall enough. Why not just cut off the legs below the rails and leave the table on it's existing base? a cheap angle grinder from Bunnings will have lots of other uses over the years.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Harry,



> Why not just cut off the legs below the rails and leave the table on it's existing base? a cheap angle grinder from Bunnings will have lots of other uses over the years.


That was my first thought as well, but I thought "I need the woodworking practice" 

I do have an angle grinder and metal cutting wheels, but would like to play at carpenter for a while......

Don't worry, if I get frustrated with this project, the cutting wheel is coming out.....

I sold my Triton RTA300 table today, so after I get back from holidays, a larger cart with router at one end and GMC table saw at the other is on the drawing board.

As Mark Twain said, 'bite off more that you can chew, and chew like hell'

James


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

here's small drawing how to make a Horz.router table or to say the back frame and plate that holds the router and that lifts the router..


see below
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bobj3 said:


> Hi Ken
> 
> Well it's bit high now , I should not say what I got mind for..  from MLCS
> 
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

jw2170 said:


> Thanks to all the members for the input to date.
> 
> Attached are some photo of today's effort.
> 
> ...


Hi,

If I'm looking at the pics correctly, I really don't see the need for the jig. You already have a tall fence, this alone would've accomplished the same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Hamlin,



> If I'm looking at the pics correctly, I really don't see the need for the jig. You already have a tall fence, this alone would've accomplished the same thing.


Others have already said the same thing. 

I just felt that I was not holding the stock down on the table and against the fence at the same time. Maybe I just need more practice. 

In any case, I feel that I have achieved something by building the jig. I am sure it will come in handy in the future.

Thanks for the input. All comments appreciated and taken in the right context.

James.


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## johncs (Oct 14, 2008)

jw2170 said:


> What is the best way to hold/clamp a board (3/4 x 3 x 22") while trying to put in a sliding dovetail pin in the end?
> 
> I was thinking of a tenon jig?
> 
> ...


In a box....
Patrick Spielman suggests making your mitre joint and gluing it up. When dry, cut the dovetail.

I saw a bloke at Carbatec cut the dovetail in a box on a Triton table, using a shop jig to support the box on its corner, at the required 45 degrees.

The important point is that the cuts in both pieces are made at the same time, ensuring spacing is perfect.

Without your pics, I can't really judge how helpful this is.


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## johncs (Oct 14, 2008)

jw2170 said:


> BJ,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's possible to make one; there may be plans on the 'net and certainly in books.


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