# Radial Arm Saws. Still used?



## CanuckBeaver (Dec 23, 2004)

I "inherited" (the price was right anyhow :sold: ) one of those old Craftsman Radial Arm Saws. Yup the old killler made by Emerson  . While it isn't beat to death by far I'm sure it has seen a better day or two. I have a (cheap) TS but I'm thinking about using the RAS as a dedicated Daido unit (I have a 1/2 decent stack set). I would appreciate your thoughts, or experiences on RAS's and especially on use for daido's. 
BTW the RAS (at least mine) really sucks for ripping.

TIA
CB


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

CB, I am sure you will find that the radial saw is out of adjustment. If you have the original paperwork go through the set up proceedures. If not get a copy from Sears. As far as poor ripping, good chance that is because of your blade. The cross cut blade that is used most with the saw has too many teeth and not enough chip clearance for quality ripping. If you want a decent blade for both cross cutting and ripping try the Freud 50 tooth combination blade. This thin kerf blade amazed me when I first tried it. Fast clean cuts either way. I bought this blade from the bulk stack at either Loews or HD for $27. You just have to spend a moment to be sure there are no chips in the teeth if you buy a bulk blade.


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## CanuckBeaver (Dec 23, 2004)

aniceone2hold said:


> CB, I am sure you will find that the radial saw is out of adjustment. If you have the original paperwork go through the set up proceedures. If not get a copy from Sears. As far as poor ripping, good chance that is because of your blade. The cross cut blade that is used most with the saw has too many teeth and not enough chip clearance for quality ripping. If you want a decent blade for both cross cutting and ripping try the Freud 50 tooth combination blade. This thin kerf blade amazed me when I first tried it. Fast clean cuts either way. I bought this blade from the bulk stack at either Loews or HD for $27. You just have to spend a moment to be sure there are no chips in the teeth if you buy a bulk blade.


While I will agree with the adjustment part of your post I have a new 40 tooth carbide ripping blade on the RAS. Trust me you had best not be in any rush the way it is.

Thanks
CB


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi Canuck:
I also have one of those old Craftsman RAS, about the same vintage . I have used it
for years, I set it up as Cross cut only, I added a good fence. It's also used for datoes
with a stacked dato set, and it does a decent job. Since you have nothing to lose
that's what I would do with it.

Woodnut65


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## CanuckBeaver (Dec 23, 2004)

Woodnut65 said:


> Hi Canuck:
> I also have one of those old Craftsman RAS, about the same vintage . I have used it
> for years, I set it up as Cross cut only, I added a good fence. It's also used for datoes
> with a stacked dato set, and it does a decent job. Since you have nothing to lose
> ...


Thanks Woodnut! It's great to hear about first hand experience.  I called around about the recall and finally found a lady who knows what's going on in, get this ... Craftsman shop vac's  . Mine was not part of the recall and Sears is sending me an owners manual in the mail (no charge WOO HOO!). Hey for a 10+ year old saw that's pretty good! I'll give it the tune up recommended and see how the old girl does after that. 

As for the daido use really how often do you dado more than 2 feet? If need be I'll just spin the saw if it's only 15 or 20 feet of run. I also think I'll add fold up "wings" to the sides of the table to get 7 or 8 feet of support (total) when needed. It's a lumbering beastie, but I think I'll keep'r.  

Thanks for the input,
CB


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

I've used simular craftsman saws but I'm guessing yours is newer then those. When I worked as a carpenters helper back in the late '60 that was what we had on the job sites. We did everything with it including ripping...... that thing would cover you in sawdust. The thing was always out of adjustment and a real pain to square/level and keep that way.

My brother still has one of about that same age, and I think he still uses it. At least as a storage bench. No just kidding, he does use it and it still works and he has cut a lot of wood with it.

One think that the old saws lacked was a restrant so when the blade contacts the wood it pulls the saw into the wood, YOU the user had to push back. This is much worse with dado blades doing wider cuts. It is easy to get in trouble so make sure you are extra alert when playing with this type. I don't know if this applies to your model??

Ed


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## CanuckBeaver (Dec 23, 2004)

Ed wrote "One think that the old saws lacked was a restrant so when the blade contacts the wood it pulls the saw into the wood, YOU the user had to push back. This is much worse with dado blades doing wider cuts. It is easy to get in trouble so make sure you are extra alert when playing with this type. I don't know if this applies to your model??"

Mine is a model 27362 BTW. I haven't noticed any "pulling" in either rip or cross cut to date, it all seems pretty normal with exception of ripping being really slow (about 5 feet per min. on 1 1/2" spruce) with a fresh 30 (I think?) tooth ripping blade. Good thing I'm not in prodution huh? I'll be extra careful when I put the dado stack on this old girl though. 

Thanks for the heads up!
CB


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## lnjaustn (Jan 12, 2005)

*Push Away*

I have the same control problem, especially with a aggressive combo blade. If I am cutting narrow material I just pull the saw out, set up for the cut, and push through the wood to make the cut. It is a little hard to feed the wood behind the blade, but if you are making dados in shorter pieces of wood, it seems to do very well. And the rotation of the blade pushed the material tight against the fence. My father gave me the same saw you are speaking of, and yes I did have to go through the entire tune up process - I found the information on a really great set up in an old Shopnotes magazine listed as "Radial Saw Tune Up".


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## pmspirito (Sep 19, 2004)

I've got a 70's vintage Craftsman RAS with a seven foot wide table. I cross cut in the push mode with the wood between the fence and the blade. I mounted it on top of a Craftsman 12 drawer metal workbench on casters. It has a dedicated shop vac connected to the blade guard for dust collection. It handles all of my 2x pressure treated lumber like a champ and I wouldn't be with out it. If you are not happy with your RAS...you are doing something wrong..... I also have a Grissly G1023ZX with the sliding table and a original Shop Fox fence for finish work.


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

"When croocutting, the saw should always be started while in back of the front fence---and should be returned there before the work is removed. Never feed work to the (stationary) blade for crosscutting as the blade will"hog" the work unless it is against the fence."

Ripping ".... feed work to the blade along the fence-- from your left to right (never from right to left)."

Or so says the good book.... Now get out there and be safe.

Ed


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## Top_Pack_rat (Jan 20, 2008)

*Radial Arm Saw Experience*

I have had radial arm saws for nearly 30 years. The biggest weekness, in my experience, is that the alignment MUST be checked regularly -- table saws have a big advantage there. Of course, the old Montgomery Wards and Sears saws have not been the kind of tanks that never have to be touched.

Jigs have always been a big thing for me -- I spend more time making tools than using them.  

I never had much trouble ripping with any blade I used. About 20 years ago, I bought a hold-down that has spring loaded wheels that pull the wood against the fence. I made a separate fence for ripping with it. It needed a thicker base to work against anyway. A key for ripping with any saw is top be aware of how the wood is feeding. Keep it slow enough that the motor does not bog down -- but not too much faster.

I think I loved about the old MW is that it had a 10K (?) 1/4" collet for router bits at the shaft end opposite the blade. I replaced that with the Craftsman which is not HS. I finally bought the jig that holds a router but I have nbot gotten around to tryimg it.

Good luck!

Dave



CanuckBeaver said:


> I "inherited" (the price was right anyhow :sold: ) one of those old Craftsman Radial Arm Saws. Yup the old killler made by Emerson  . While it isn't beat to death by far I'm sure it has seen a better day or two. I have a (cheap) TS but I'm thinking about using the RAS as a dedicated Daido unit (I have a 1/2 decent stack set). I would appreciate your thoughts, or experiences on RAS's and especially on use for daido's.
> BTW the RAS (at least mine) really sucks for ripping.
> 
> TIA
> CB


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just my 2 cents 

I have had one for a long time and use it all the time,,

It can be just a bit trickey to remove 1/16" off a board that's only 2" sq. and I just about ways cut my stock a 1/8" longer than it should be cut and the RAS can do that job very well,,,I also like it to rip with,, most come with a hold down device on the blade guard and a anti kick back device built right in...most can't get the hang of running the boards backways so to say..but if it's done right it's safer than the table saw..

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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I have had radial arm saws for over 30 years, my present 10" DeWalt, the same as Bj's, for over 20 years, and would find woodworking without it very difficult. There are of course things that I have learned by experience, ripping is as has been mentioned, VERY messy because they UP-CUT in rip mode, sending sawdust everywhere. Once the arm is moved for mitres etc, it is necessary to re-check the accuracy once it's put back at right angles to the fence, in spite of the click stop. For this reason I never move the arm, I use jigs when an angle cut is required. For dados I simply make multiple cuts, if of course dados were going to be a regular operation, I would use a dado set, or as we say here a trenching set. My current blade is a Bosch 80 tooth which gives a great finish but is the noisiest blade I have ever come across. I suppose it's as they say,"what you've never had you never miss", but believe me guys, once you have one, you'd rather part with you're wife than the RAS!


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## pmspirito (Sep 19, 2004)

I wouldn't be without my '70's vintage Craftsman RAS (see post #9). Here are some photos. But I feed the blade into the work pushing forward like a skill saw and not pulling back. The fence has been moved several inches closer to the column. The blue line indicating the standard position. Now I am able to cross cut from the standard 11 3/4 inches up to around 15 inches and rip up to a little over 22 inches. The shop vac connected to the blade guard sucks up 95% of the dust. 

The blue truck in the background is a completely restored 1935 Ford. http://www.peterspirito.com/pickup.htm


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Peter, I sure hope you move that nice looking truck out of the way when you use the RAS.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

If wrong I'm man enough to apologise but I really do feel that up-cutting across the grain on a RAS is a very dangerous thing to do, sure, you may have gotten away with it for years, but that's how serious accidents happen, it appears to have been a safe method, then bang, an "accident" only it wouldn't be an accident, it would surely have been caused. Can we please have some expert opinions on this matter. Possibly even from RAS makers as well.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I will agree with Harry on this one..

"very dangerous thing to do"

It's true the blade is pushing the stock back to the stop board but it's also trying to lift the stock up at the same time unlike the safe way by pushing the stock back to the stop board but it's also push the stock down to the table top....

Also it looks like it's time to replace the top of your table top,once the top has all the material removed from under the blade it's unsafe ,small parts can drop into the cup so to speak and can jam into the blade ..if you see cut off parts take off like little rockeys it's time to make a new top...this is a real tip off. just a old time users 2 cents..
I replace my top about 4 times over the years  the top I have is not the norm, it has snap in Alum.bars to cut stock from 0 deg.to 90deg.without moving the head stock...great for making frames,etc. left and right side thing quick and easy without moving the main head 

Here's just one little tip,,make a stop block for the column this will stop the blade from going to deep,,,,,I use a block that's in place with a big hose clamp on the column,,if you want to see a snapshot of the block ,just ask and I will post one.

Just one more note about the RAS,,, it's great tool to cut 4' X 8' plywood stock 
I have a flip up table top (1 1/2" x 40" x 7' ) right next to the RAS that can hold the plywood for ripping...and I use ( 2 each) roller stands that's on the out feed end of the RAS to pickup/hold the ripped stock...

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harrysin said:


> If wrong I'm man enough to apologise but I really do feel that up-cutting across the grain on a RAS is a very dangerous thing to do, sure, you may have gotten away with it for years, but that's how serious accidents happen, it appears to have been a safe method, then bang, an "accident" only it wouldn't be an accident, it would surely have been caused. Can we please have some expert opinions on this matter. Possibly even from RAS makers as well.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

I personally don't have a RAS but my dad does. He bought it around mid-1960's. It was a major purchase for him at that time. He has done everything you can imagine on the saw....everything from using it to build rooms in an unfinished house to trim and cupboards on his boat.

I think he kinda loves that old thing. When I saw your table top, it reminded me of his saw. He also changes the top when it gets 'groovy'.

Ed......


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## Maurice (Sep 24, 2004)

*Here's Mine*



karateed said:


> I personally don't have a RAS but my dad does. He bought it around mid-1960's. It was a major purchase for him at that time. He has done everything you can imagine on the saw....everything from using it to build rooms in an unfinished house to trim and cupboards on his boat.
> 
> I think he kinda loves that old thing. When I saw your table top, it reminded me of his saw. He also changes the top when it gets 'groovy'.
> 
> ...


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi Maurice,

Yes, he's done all that except the glider....don't think that one will ever happen. He's never used it inside....wherever he's (and sometimes me) have lived he's used it outside, even in -20 deg F up north (even furthur than Squamish).

My grandfather used to build houses and my dad used to help him. It's a shame I'm just getting the 'bug' these last couple of years....I remember my grandfather building dad a garage (grandpa was retired and loved doing it). When he was done, every single corner was absolutely square....he was a master at it.

Anyway, glad to see that others love that tool. It has fond memories for me even though it was dad using it.

Ed......


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## mailee (Nov 11, 2005)

I have the De Walt 10" radial arm saw and wouldn't be without it. I have had a few of them over the years and find them very useful. I should add that I never use them for ripping stock as I use my table saw for that. I mainly use it for cross cutting pieces to length or making dados. i agree with one of the posts that they can be a dangerous tool but used carefully they are no dangerous than any other tool in the shop. They do climb cut timber while cross cutting but the idea is not to pull the blade through so much as ease it through the stock. They will hold the timber firm to the fence and down on the table if the correct blade is used which must be a negative rake blade. If a standard positive rake blade is used on one of these machines then they are very dangerous indeed wanting to lift the timber up and off the table. I have an additon on mine which also helps that is a return spring on the arm which pulls the carriage backwards behind the fence. I am no expert on these saws but have used one for the last twenty years so have learned a thing or two about them and never had an accident with one.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"Ripping ".... feed work to the blade along the fence-- from your left to right (never from right to left)."


Not necessarily so, see photographs. Whilst Bj's RAS appears at first glance to be the same as mine, I notice the anti-kickback is on the front, that being so, is the blade still turning clockwise when facing it?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

For me I always rip stock with the motor on the back side of the table top..

And always from the Left to the right...the anti-kickback bar is always on my right,,my top is a split type, that's to say the back stop can be pulled out and moved back by 6" or so , this will let me rip stock up to 26 1/4" wide if I need to..But then if I want to rip stock to 1 1/2" wide lets say, then all I do flip the motor around and put the motor on the front side of the table and feed from the Right to the Left, this in turn always puts the anti-kickback bar on the out feed side of the blade...the blade is ways trying the lift the stock up or to say the teeth are coming up from the bottom side of the stock...

Small story , my son ask if you could use the saw at home and I said sure, so we took of the saw off the base cabinet and he was off ,, he siad I will get it back in a day or two, in a day ,he said here's #%[email protected]$# your Cappy Saw,,  He said it would not cut 1/2" plywood...  I said show me,,,,you got it he was ripping in the wrong way  he said that's the way we do it at work...I said look at you fingers and say good by to them if you still use the saw in the wrong way....then I said don't every push the stock into the blade without using a push stick..and he said push stick what's that...and we had a long talk about how to use a RAS...now he wants is own..they can do so many jobs very well  plus you can hang a router on one end to make the real hard router jobs easy...XYZ thing on the RAS...It's like putting a plunge router on your RAS....with a standard base...at one time Delta/Sears/B & D, had a jig saw that just bolt on also to make it like just a band saw in a away..sanding drums also...



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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for that Bj. Because I'm right handed, I find (found) it easier to feed from right to left, but I haven't used it for ripping for 7 or 8 years. The table saw really is better for this task. I would hate to have to make a choice between a router and RAS.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

I like to rip with it because I can take my hands off the stock and move around to the other side and pull it out unlike the table saw... I have two types of hold downs that work well for ripping...the yellow (Orange) wheel type, spring loaded type that only turns one way..  and the spring metal bar type (Shop Smith ) type, that hold it down..

You will now see why I rip from the left to the right, using the Orange hold down wheels.. the Yellow ones will let you rip from the right to the left...but it's not the norm..so they tell me 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_h...field-keywords=Orange+Board+Buddies&x=19&y=16
http://www.amazon.com/Yellow-Board-...f=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1201619384&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Board-Buddies...ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1201649223&sr=1-3

http://grizzly.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=Board Buddies

But to each his own...

=======


harrysin said:


> Thanks for that Bj. Because I'm right handed, I find (found) it easier to feed from right to left, but I haven't used it for ripping for 7 or 8 years. The table saw really is better for this task. I would hate to have to make a choice between a router and RAS.


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## pmspirito (Sep 19, 2004)

harrysin said:


> If wrong I'm man enough to apologise but I really do feel that up-cutting across the grain on a RAS is a very dangerous thing to do, sure, you may have gotten away with it for years, but that's how serious accidents happen, it appears to have been a safe method, then bang, an "accident" only it wouldn't be an accident, it would surely have been caused. Can we please have some expert opinions on this matter. Possibly even from RAS makers as well.


A power tool is only as dangerous as the person using it. An RAS upcutting across the grain "to me" is no more dangerous than a chain saw, a Ditch Witch Trencher, a New Holland hay baler, a salami slicer or 300 skydives. I have done them all without incident.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Peter

You don't look like the Evel Knievel type  just goes to show you can't judge the book by it's cover 

As you know the chain saw as a nick name ( shark saw) it will eat you up in a heart beat, the same for the other items you have posted...

Using the RAS backwards is like jumping out of the plane with the shoot packed by a 5 year old,it will work most of the time but it only takes one time. 

You have been very lucky  but that's just my 2 cents...

==========


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

pmspirito said:


> A power tool is only as dangerous as the person using it. An RAS upcutting across the grain "to me" is no more dangerous than a chain saw, a Ditch Witch Trencher, a New Holland hay baler, a salami slicer or 300 skydives. I have done them all without incident.



The Good Lord has been looking after you Peter, may HE continue to do so.


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## woodstover (Jan 6, 2010)

I also have a Craftsman oldie from the 60's, one of the recalled models. Most of the time we use it for cutting up old cedar shingles for kindling, but, it really does excel at cutting vinyl siding and soffits with the blade on backwards which is what we're doing now. Otherwise, it's too loose to trust.


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## dawziecat (Dec 8, 2009)

CanuckBeaver;6454 Hey for a 10+ year old saw that's pretty good! I'll give it the tune up recommended and see how the old girl does after that.
Thanks for the input said:


> Bought my Sears RAS in 1976. It chatters a lot, making me think there is a bearing problem. That was 15 years ago. It still chatters on run-down . . . but it cuts fine.
> Chattering and bearings be hanged! I'll be on the scrap pile before that saw will be.
> 
> It is a pain to keep set up accurately . . . so it usually isn't. That is just one of the things I never seem to get around to. The table and fence are always cut up and in need of replacement too . . . but rarely gets done.
> ...


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I think that thats a great price you paid Ha, The reason that your saw is pulling is the blade. You need a blade that is a (o) or a slightly neg blade. You can use a blade that has been on the table saw, but be aware that it will pull you into the cut. I have had one for 25 + years, and i still use it some. My wife and My daughter, and grandchildren got me a table saw that i looked at a few times, and liked. I still use the RAS on occasions. If You get it all set, it will stay that way, until You move it, or cut difficult wood cuts, or stall the motor. If it is stalling from pulling, that is enough to take it out of adjustment. I did a write up a while ago on another forum, on table replacement and adjustment, i will look, and if i can find it back, I'll send it, I can't remember where i wrote it, So don't hold Your breath. There are also forums on the subject, but, it will take some looking, and it's no ware near as nice as this one


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## Dave_Willemain (May 4, 2008)

reible said:


> "When croocutting, the saw should always be started while in back of the front fence---and should be returned there before the work is removed. Never feed work to the (stationary) blade for crosscutting as the blade will"hog" the work unless it is against the fence."
> 
> Ripping ".... feed work to the blade along the fence-- from your left to right (never from right to left)."
> 
> ...


My experience is that the crosscut blade works OK for ripping as long as you take your time. I suggest you make certain that the blade is paralell to the fence.


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## leoschu (Feb 18, 2010)

My two cents here. I've worked as a carpenter since the 70's. I started with Craftsman and used it for years. I still have an old 9" Delta that I wouldn't part with for the world. 

A RAS is very handy for crosscutting and and cross grain dados. But a TS is so much safer and accurate for ripping that I wouldn't even consider the radial saw for that task. 

If it's the only stationary saw you have then be sure the RAS is well aligned before ripping or you may be in for a nasty surprise! The prior advice about proper blades is well given.


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## SportFury59 (Feb 17, 2009)

I have used RAS (Craftsman 10") since '70's and consider it safest saw and "go to" saw I have. You gotta be strictly focused on what you're doing. Ripping can be tricky and I have had cut pieces go flying off table but only on occasion (once is too many though). You can feed stock from right or left depending on which way you turn the head. There is a sticker on my blade guard saying "Do not feed stock from this end" so you can't make a mistake if you heed that sticker. Per adjustments - never had to readjust.

I did a double take when I read how Peter pushes blade into stock rather than pull blade through, with his RAS. I've always pulled blade through, never the opposite. BUT the other day I read in magazine, when using a SLIDER miter saw - they advised - "PUSH blade through wood", not pull. So I dug out instructions on my slider miter saw, and sure enough, they advise pushing blade through material. Tried it and it works fine. Doesn't a slider miter saw work on same principle as RAS? I can see by doing that with a miter saw there is less chance of small piece of cut-off stock getting between that wide gap in fence and being thrown by blade (maybe).

But what would be the advantage of pushing with a RAS, other than more cutting width? I'm still going to PULL my RAS blade through the material but PUSH with miter arm saw blade.


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## pmspirito (Sep 19, 2004)

*Why Push? Because . . .*

It really has to do with the width of the stock you can cut.

As I recall I had some photos attached with the original post. By doing a push stroke it allows you to relocate the fence closer to the post and pick up a couple of inches of cut both on the cross cut and on the rip.

It's always important to adjust the blade guard to be within 1/4 inch or less from the stock being cut.

I also attach a shop vac hose to the outlet on the blade guard and with the guard set close to the work I can collect almost all of the saw dust.


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## Timberwerkz (Jan 1, 2010)

The main reason to push a RAS is to prevent it from pulling itself through the cut. I don't believe you can get a cut any wider either way the length of travel is fixed and you should be able to milk it for a maximum crosscut cutting either way. All that being said with my Walker-Turner I can only push it or my crosscut would be limited to about 12" because of the relationship of the fence to the column. Pushing it I can crosscut 19" without any trouble

Chris


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