# Making external wood stairs



## Neil H (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi.
I want to make a set of external wooden stairs.
Mt height gain is 2700 mm and my max base is 2300mm
I will use 275 x45mm Meranti Stringers
My max opening is 820mm
I want to ROUTER out the Stringers to accommodate the treads 220 x 38mm or 32mm (is this ok?).

How deep should I router out each side in the stringers 15mm - 20mm?
( I will fix with 372 epoxy and coach screws)

I did this same job MANY years ago and remeber making up a template which I slid along and then routered the next tread - anyone got got a layout for such a template ?

I have an angle of approx 47 deg ( quite steep) so I want to reduce the height of each traed to appox 158mm - 16 treads.

any suggestions or ideas ?
many thanks
Neil


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Just wait a bit and Bob will give you one.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Neil

You are one week late, they had a neat one from the RWS on the 
The Woodworking Channel Video Library

But The Woodworking Channel Video Library has dropped the RWS videos, they just have 2 only now on the channel under the members list ( Bob R.and Rick R.)
But you can get the DVD ver.but it's not free..

512 - 513 Two Part - Basic Stairs:
Router Workshop: Series 500

You can also find some on youtube but not as good as the RWS one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wMlqxR__Ro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwWT0O16cP0&feature=related
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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Neil
> 
> 
> But The Woodworking Channel Video Library has dropped the RWS videos, they just have 2 only now on the channel under the members list ( Bob R.and Rick R.)
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Duane

Thanks 
You are right, I updated my Firefox and it was gone so I just tried in IE and it was still listed and it worked 

Thanks  what show did you view or download ..

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Dmeadows said:


> bobj3 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Neil
> ...


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## gregW (Mar 14, 2007)

The Router Workshop > Basic stairs parts 1 and 2...good stuff! 

The Woodworking Channel Video Library


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

This is now what I see Firefox no listing for RWS

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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I am using firefox also... Fedora 15.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

hi


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## Neil H (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi therethanks for this - the videos were quite useful
However I dint see anyone using the system of ROUTING OUT a grove in the risers for the treads to fit into.

I was wondering how ddep to go for the treads to fit securing into - if the riser is 275mm x45mm - is 15mm ok?
tks
Neil


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Neil


The norm is 1/2" deep  or to say 1/3 of the thickest of the lumber MAX. 

But do take the time to view the RWS videos (part 1 and part 2) it will show how to do it from sq.one like cutting the slots, you may need to view it a time two but it's worth the time..


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Neil H said:


> Hi therethanks for this - the videos were quite useful
> However I dint see anyone using the system of ROUTING OUT a grove in the risers for the treads to fit into.
> 
> I was wondering how ddep to go for the treads to fit securing into - if the riser is 275mm x45mm - is 15mm ok?
> ...


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Thats why I keep more than 1 web browser around!

Glad to help. I got the stairs series and a couple of others. I am a long time fan of RWS. I am also learning a LOT from this forum.

Thanks to everyone.



bobj3 said:


> Hi Duane
> 
> Thanks
> You are right, I updated my Firefox and it was gone so I just tried in IE and it was still listed and it worked
> ...


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Neil

I have made the assumption (incorrectly?) that from what you've stated the staircase is to be of the closed riser type

By setting out and geometry I actually make your angle 49.2° (based on an overall rise of 2700mm and overall going of 2300mm) which really is a very steep staircase (and too steep to meet Building Regs on a new build in this country, the UK). Taking your requirement to have a 32mm thick tread (which is adequate for a staircase with closed risers) I make the individual rise to be 157mm (bottom step to floor will be 158mm) and the individual going on each tread to be about 135mm - far too shallow for safe traverse. I've made a few sets of replacements stairs for cottages with a rise and going square at about 200mm which makes for better climbing. For your staircase might I suggest keeping a minimum going of 200mm to give enough for a reasonable amount of foot to fall upon. That gives a rise of approximately 232mm and works out at about 12.6 steps...... so rounding off gives 12 steps with a rise of which gives you a rise of 207mm per step and a going of 178.5mm, which if you add 20mm for a nosing and overhang makes for a tread of 198.5mm depth. The bottom step would have a rise of 208mm in this scheme and the overall length of the stringer works out at about 3500mm. If you have access to CAD software you can confirm these figures or I'd be happy to publish a drawing of the going and rise so you can make-up a template for setting out.

_Edit: For those in the UK or Ireland; BS/IS (British Standards/Irish Standards - the regulatory bodies setting the code on these matters) regs stipulate a maximum angle of 42° on domestic staircases (new build) with a minimum going (step depth) of 250mm and a maximum rise per step of 190mm. The general rule of thumb is that the normal relationship between the dimensions of the rise and going can be expressed as detailed in Approved Document K, which states that twice the rise plus the going (2R+G) should be between 550mm and 700mm. In this case we have a figure of 2*207 + 232 = 649mm_. 

The risers will only need to be 6mm or 8mm plywood and should be grooved into the underside of the treads and held in place by wedges. Similarly the treads should be glued and wedged into place. Properly built with sash or pipe cramps there is no need for screws, which in any case are potentially a source of squeaking as the stairs get older.

BTW 15mm is deep enough for the housings (grooves), although I normally just go 12mm, but a stronger joint will be made by using a stair housing cutter such as these which are actually a shallow dovetail

If these steps are the open riser type then the setting out rules remain the same and I'd still suggest retaining the same going, but the housings for the treads cannot be secured by wedges and a straight cutter is used. For maximum strength a partial riser beneath the nosing of each tread is still required in our Building Regs and this needs to be set into a housing on the underside of the treads. Once again I'd be happy to supply a drawing. Personally I wouldn't use screws, but instead I might let-in two or three stainless steel tie rods hidden behind the part risers with threaded ends and domed nuts at each end.

For those not in the know the term "housing" refers to a groove or dado in American terms and is the Anglo-Saxon for your term.

Regards

Phil


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## Neil H (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi there
many thanks
15 mm on 45mm will work .
I will check the video steps.
cheers
Neil


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## Neil H (Sep 12, 2011)

Hi Phil many many thanks for your detailed reply - most appreciated.
These will open risers and I would very much appreciate if you could supply a drawing. I agree with your 49.2 deg ( I klnow its steep - but that is what I have to work with. I CAN stretch the base to 2400mm which will help a bit.I will use Meranti to cope with the South African hot sun and rain.
Look forward to getting the drawing from you . I will make up a template to shift up and down the stringers for routering out the groves.

many thanks
regards
Neil


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Neil

PM sent. I'll send a drawing for the stringer layout as well as for the layout template once we've established communication. 

Regards

Phil


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## Neil H (Sep 12, 2011)

*External wooden stairs - drawings*

Hi Phil
I hope you got my previos replies.My email is [email protected]. I can read mst of the file ext that you mentioned with Adobe CS5/ In Design.I can extend the base to 2400mm which helps. Look fwd to your drawings- kind regards
Neil


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