# Tools for a weekend warrior



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Started this thread because I'm sure more people than just myself will find it useful. While I'm hoping to answer my questions primarily, others are more than welcome to ask away.

Because of this, I would ask that if you're answering a question specifically, please quote the question (questioner's post) so that things don't get confusing. Lack of quoting will have people wondering and clutter the thread.

I'm not a pro. I don't have a big shop. So what I get, I really only need it to do a little bit and not take up a ton of space. More importantly, I don't really want to pay for features I don't need. But I'm sure I'm not alone in not knowing what features I need (read: specs to do the jobs I want). So, I ask for advice. I've probably asked for some of this before, but one spot would be better.

What should I look for in a tablesaw?

What should I look for in a drill press?

What should I look for in a compressor?

What should I look for in a miter saw?



Goals for tablesaw - consistent width cuts for shelves, rip cuts, dados

Goals for drill press - right-angle holes, mortising

Goals for compressor - pin/brad nailers, tire airing, shop cleanup
(Thoughts on these? Link, Link, Husky 2gal hot dog compressor, page 13 of current Home Depot circular)

Miter saw - miter cuts, probably not any bigger than 2x6


That should do it for my questions for now. Not in the market for this stuff at the moment, but you never know what's a good deal and when it would crop up.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Hello Chris
I know a bit about what You are going threw. I did about the same thing when i was a young man. Not knowing enough about power tools, because I had only been around hand tools, i didn't have a clue as to what I really needed for my hobby. I talked to a lot of guys when i would find a tool. I bought mostly used tools. You are making a wise decision in asking every one here. I still have a lot of the tools from 1960's Are You looking for all new tools, some use tools? And what do You plan on doing? You will probably get into some remodeling, and might want to make some furniture. I know I am not able to help to much, I feel a 10 inch table saw would be where You start, I have used an 8, and it just didn't do the 4 inch cuts, that You will want to be able to make. I may jump in later if I have some good ideas, but the problem that I have is that I am not you, and if I try to give you good help, I am afraid that I may lead You from what You want. and If you can give ideas on where You are wanting to do, it might help others answer. Happy hunting. PS If no one else post, Would You like me to anyhow


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

New or used doesn't really matter. But I do need to know enough to know when a good deal is really a deal, and if it's going to be useful to me.

I'm certainly not looking for long-term items. If it lasts 10-15 years, I'm certainly not going to be upset, but I'm not looking to buy my first and last table saw, if you know what I mean.

I'm fairly well versed in the miter saw category, what size blade will do what. Not that I still couldn't use advice on it. But I have no idea how a $100 TS stacks up against a $500 unit at the store. I also don't know what kind of motor I should look at for a drill press, how much PSI I need in a compressor, etc.

Feel free to dispense any advice you have, certainly.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

You will probably get answers all over the map on this because everybody's experience is different, but not matter which saw you get put a good blade on it & it will improve & make it a better saw.

Tablesaw:
Contractor (1-3/4hp) style to cabinet style (3hp+). A good blade will make a difference & make it a better saw.

Drill Press:
Table Top or Stand Up, ajustable speeds

Compressor:
They will all hold more than 100psi & most will run your nail guns no problem. But if you want to spray or use air tools you will need more cfm & a larger size tank.

Mitersaw:
Adjustability & feel. I would go with 12" to lesson your limitations. A good blade will make any saw a better saw.

Hope this helps.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Chris,

Just a couple of things I have learned along the way:

Air compressors- Forget PSI. most of the tools you need work at the 90-100 PSI range. Most air compressors advertise pressures higher than that. The key measurement is CFM or SCFM. You're going to have to shop for a compressor based on the types of tools you are going to use. Air nailers use so little air, that if that is all you are going to use, any of the small pancake or hotdog compressors will do you well. 

I bought my compressor from a guy who did auto restoration. He had a bunch of compressors he was selling because he had started small and kept having to buy bigger compressors as he got frustrated that his sanders wouldn't work well on the smaller ones.

My compressor is too big for a lot of small jobs, and too small for my big consumers. It's a 36 gal horizontal with 6+ CFM at 90 psi. 

Tablesaws- My first saw was in the $300s (new). It cut well, but had no weight to it, and was a little underpowered. It became a little scary when feeding heavy stock into it, because it would tip a little. I had to learn to work within the saws limits, to add weight to the base, etc. The old Popular Woodworking magazine "_little shop that could_" (September 1999) articles have a bunch of good resources on using the small saws well. 

If picking up a used one, avoid the open grid type extension wings, they can be a pain to work with in my opinion. Also, with a cheap table saw, you aren't going to be doing dados- might want to use a router instead. Most don't have the arbor length or the power to get what you need done.

Drill press- If you don't need one often, the little wolfcraft drill guides can save you a lot of cash by letting you use the tools you probably already own. If you buy a drill press, go big. What looks big at first, is going to be too small sooner or later. Find a 12 or 15 inch swing benchtop, and go from there. Big drill press tables are nice, but you can always make your own. Motor power isn't super critical here, you'll just have to feed slower, or work your way up in bits.

Miter saws- I went big when I replaced my RAS with a miter saw, but it's too big most of the time. Instead of a 10 inch slider, If I had to do it again I would probably get a 12 inch fixed miter saw. When you go to look at them, make sure that they lock tight in position, don't flex, and there is no wobble in the blade. If it looks like the saw has been sliding around the bed of a pickup going from site to site, you might want to stay away from it.

These are just a few opinions based on my experiences, and I'm an expert by no means. I built a tall clock using a circular saw, a jigsaw and a router, and I built an entertainment saw with a cheap table saw. It can be done. It's a whole lot nicer with the bigger tools, but they're not 100% essential.


http://www.amazon.com/Wolfcraft-Attachment-4-Inch-8-Inch-Drills/dp/B000JCIMEA?tag=dogpile-20 looks hokey, but it works surprisingly well.....

Little Shop Mark II - WoodworkingNow I don't know the date of the little shop mk I, but I think I liked that one better


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Don't go for the cheap table saws. The fences are not that good on them and often the miter track is a non-standard 5/8" so you will end up needing to make all of your own miter slot bars for sleds and jigs for the table saw.

I have had a $100 ts, a $300 ts and now a $500 one. I haven't gotten to use the latest one yet since it came needing a new trunnion, but even without putting it all together I can tell that the fence will be much more solid than the previous two saws. I am not that happy with the more expensive saws miter gauge though. The other ones had click stops at various common angles and the expensive one doesn't. There are several aftermarket replacements or you can just use various jigs instead of the miter gauge.

As for compressors, I burned out a cheap 1ga pancake, but my dads 3ga hot dog works fine, if slow to fill up.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice so far.

Found a TS on CL that I've inquired about, it *looks* like this one:

Skil - Tablesaw - Benchtop - Circular Saw - Skilsaw - Power Tools

But I don't know if it is, mainly because no stand or extension are in the pics. Also, the guard and knife aren't pictured, unknown if it would come with it. For $40, would this be a decent starter saw?


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

What type of projects do you plan to use it for? Cutting capacity is limited on these, especially on cross cuts. These table top style saws do better with a thin kerf blade than with a thicker blade, Just don't expect to run dense material thru it for a clean cut. The thin kerf blade tends to flex more. 

I myself do not care for these as I'm used to larger saws, but for light projects $40.00 is a good start. You can always upgrade to a larger saw if this is not efficient enough. You might even be able to get your $40.00 back on the resale which would mean your use was free.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm probably not going to be running anything thicker than a 2x4 through it for french cleats. At least, I see that as about my capacity.

Probably to cut shelving (16-18" wide, no more than 1" thick), square up stock, cut tenons, dados for 1/4" backer board, etc. I've never had a TS before, so it would be kind of a trial and error thing. See what I really want to do, and what I'm going to use it most for.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Cocheseuga said:


> What should I look for in a tablesaw?


Don't get the cheap $100 HF "Industrial" saw. Delta, and many others sell the same thing. It's got a plastic case, and is junk. Get a saw that has some weight to it, and gets good reviews.



> What should I look for in a drill press?


A quill that doesn't have a lot of slop in it. Run the quill down and grab on to it. If it moves back and forth, move on.



> What should I look for in a compressor?


How much are you going to use it? I just bought a Harbor Freight 21gal, 3hp compressor. I finally have enough air to use air tools.



> What should I look for in a miter saw?


Again, slop in the mechanism. Accurate angles. Read reviews.


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## Noob (Apr 18, 2009)

I hate to say this, but I think it would be important to note about how much money you have to spend on these tools. It will be of little use to recommend a $1,200 saw if you only have $300 to spend. Obviously that is just an example, but one person's trash is another man's treasure.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Weekend warrior = hobbyist = not wanting to spend a bunch.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Cocheseuga said:


> Started this thread because I'm sure more people than just myself will find it useful. While I'm hoping to answer my questions primarily, others are more than welcome to ask away.
> 
> Because of this, I would ask that if you're answering a question specifically, please quote the question (questioner's post) so that things don't get confusing. Lack of quoting will have people wondering and clutter the thread.
> 
> ...


Chris, for a smart alecky answer, in spite of all the very useful information provided by fellow forum members, all you REALLY need is a good router. I went for several years with only a Makita 3612C and an Oak-Park router table and several base plates for both table and hand-held router use. Even now I have added only a circular saw to the collection. I do also have a Black and Decker power drill, but there are very few things it does that I could not also do with the router.

The one important question that does not seem to have been asked is what kind of work do you plan to do? making small boxes, making cabinets, minor home remodleing such as wainscoting or installing crown moldings, major DIY home remodeling, etc.?


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> How much are you going to use it? I just bought a Harbor Freight 21gal, 3hp compressor. I finally have enough air to use air tools.


I am trying to convince She who actually buys my toys that I need that one. She is complaining that it is too big to put in our already overfull basement or garage. Right now I have my dad's (going to be mine as my brother is buying him a different one for his b-day tomorrow...seems both forgot about the one I borrowed that we just bought him for christmas 2008) 2g or 3g underpowered hotdog compressor. I had a 1g pancake that the motor burned out on me while just using it for brad nailing after just 13 months of owning it and not much use.

How large is in in floor space usage compared to like the 2hp 8g one they sell (or any horizontal moveable floor model)?


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

im just quite sure you dont need a 1200 buck saw. and i do admit, there are people who cant do a rip without a 1200 buck saw, but im not sure id take advice from them.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

I just use the $200 compressor from HD. Takes up about 4sq ft in the basement. I piped it outside to the driveway (no garage) so I can use the air out there. I also put a manifold downstairs with one hose from the compressor and 3 taps for hoses. Works fine. Only thing is I used 1" schedule 40 PVC for the air line so it needed to have a safety shield put around it. PVC has a way of becoming shrapnel if anything goes wrong. Expanded metal works fine for this application. 
As far as any equipment goes, Craigs list is a good source for the bigger stuff as you can generally get find stuff reasonably close to your geographic area. eBay also works for stuff that can be shipped relatively easily. 
You can assemble a pretty fair arsenal for well under $1000 with some diligent shopping and a little luck. 
Good Luck


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Hope no one minds a bit of crosslinking to my current situation:

http://www.routerforums.com/starting-off/19369-so-i-want-build-pantry-5.html#post177331

I'm a bit stuck as to what I need next.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Revisiting this thread a bit.

I was perusing Sears yesterday, and I started to take a look at the table saws. I have been using a Ryobi 10" cheapy TS for my recent work (borrowed), and it's not too bad. Does the job. But the fence is the killer. Don't know how you're supposed to be accurate with it. So, I started looking at the big boys TS and...the same thing. The fence wiggles from side to side before you lock it down, so you're never guaranteed to have an accurate cut with the fence without measuring with your tape about six times. Is that indicative of all TS? Is there a fix? Is it something you learn to live with?

I also put in an offer for a band saw locally. I hope it's a good one to do some resawing with.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

levon said:


> im just quite sure you dont need a 1200 buck saw. and i do admit, there are people who cant do a rip without a 1200 buck saw, but im not sure id take advice from them.


And some who can't do a rip even with a $1200 saw!


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Cocheseuga said:


> But the fence is the killer. Don't know how you're supposed to be accurate with it. So, I started looking at the big boys TS and...the same thing. The fence wiggles from side to side before you lock it down, so you're never guaranteed to have an accurate cut with the fence without measuring with your tape about six times. Is that indicative of all TS? Is there a fix? Is it something you learn to live with?


There are adjusting screws to tighten that up. They are on the carriage that rides on the front rail.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Chris, Mike has forgot more about tablesaws than i will ever know and he gives you great and accurate information.

my saw doesnt have much if any slack, but i think i read somewhere that when it is locked down, it locks squarely. and it does just that.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> There are adjusting screws to tighten that up. They are on the carriage that rides on the front rail.


You know if that holds water all the way down to the lowest price saws, or is that a feature at a certain price point?


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Not the cheap ones. I had a Cman that didn't. Beis style fences have the adjustment. Usually a heavy duty nylon screw.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks.

I guess I'm at a crossroads in terms of that one. I really don't have room or funds for something like a nice RIDGID 3650, but I want something that's going to be accurate and not a pain to use.

Size dictates a table-mounted or portable folding stand. Ease dictates...I dunno.

Guy got back to me on the band saw. It's a Delta 28-150. Good for a beginner? Price sounds right.


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## jfsauer (Jul 27, 2009)

Can't comment on the bigger equipment, but I just got a random orbit sander and I love it. I bought a Bosch 5". I have a cheap, light, belt sander and the RO sander runs rings around it. I made some Teak counter tops and the ROS was invaluable in smoothing out my goofs. I also have a Bosch router. I bought the kit that has the plunge router housing and the fixed housing. I have access to community wood shop but the equipment is old and poorly maintained. In my opinion you need a good cabinet TS, a drill press, and a good band saw. Also a sturdy workbench. Fine Working magazine, online version has 100s of articles on all topics.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Unfortunately a cabinet saw won't happen for at least ten years, if ever. So I've resigned myself to accept less, but I'm just trying to figure out how much less I should start with. My logical side is bipolar at the moment.

One side says that I should get something cheap and figure out what I would want more out of it, the other side says I already have a decent idea and should get a decent contractor saw.


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

Chris you mentioned portable table saw or one with folding legs. Here's one on sale at Lowes: Shop PORTER-CABLE 10" JobSite Table Saw at Lowes.com

Looks like a nice unit and has the safety features you'll need like blade guard and splitter. It does not come with a riving knife but not many contractors saws do and certainly none at that price point.


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## mpounders (Jul 8, 2009)

*Roll your own fence*

I have seldom been able to justify the need (to my wife) for purchasing the quality of tools that I lust over.....so I have had to make some compromises. My third and current tablesaw is an ancient Delta contractor model 10". It was old when I got it 18 years a go, but it has a cast iron top. I was able to adjust it to get it cutting square to the mitre grooves and a nice blade made it cut good. I mounted on a roll-around base that has a drawer to catch saw dust. It also has several other drawers and a cabinet door that holds my routers and router bits. I replaced the table wing on one side with a wider plywood version that has a place to mount my router.

But the item that makes it all great to use is the fence I built. I replaced the front and back rails with some big pieces of angle iron. I attached a square block of maple to the front rail and made sure that it was perpendicular to the blade for the full length. The fence itself is a based on a T-square design, made of laminated birch plywood with laminated facing added. It has a knob that clamps it to the front rail and it is adjustable so that you can ensure that it is perfectly parallel to the blade (it has never needed adjusting since I built it). I added an aditional hold-down to the back to lock it securely in place to the back rail. I added some stick-measuring tape to the front rail and a t-slot to the top of the fence to use with my anti-kickback rollers and that's about it. You can slide the fence with one finger, it is extremely accurate and locks squarely and securely in place. Cost about $50 for the fence.


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## Sordova (Mar 22, 2009)

My experience says that if you are planning on sticking with woodworking, purchase the best tools that you can possibly afford, and you will only cry once. That being said, I don't think one needs commercial grade tools to supply a weekend warriors shop.

There are many magazine articles that discuss your very concerns and I would investigate those before purchasing any tools. 

Bottom line on a table saw - 10 inch minimum, contractors type ok, hybrid cabinet better, full cabinet best. Belt drive with a 2+HP motor preferred. Offshore makes are fine, although domestic brands are much better. A good cabinet table saw will be that last one you will ever buy.

Drill press - Floor standing with a belt drive is very functional. Table tops are fine, albeit you will have limited capacity. It depends on what you want to use it for and again, what you will do with the old one, if you ever upgrade. If I could do it again, I would go for a variable speed, vs pulley for speed control, but that is splitting hairs.

Air compressor - While cheaper, the oil-less air compressors make a lot more noise and will not last as long as an oil bath compressor. Porter Cable makes a good oil bath compressor that will last a weekend warrior a long time withouit any heartaches.

Compound Mitre saw - a 10 inch slider(Bosch, DeWalt, Hitachi, Makita, all good.) Stay away from cheap knock offs as mitre saw accuaracy is critical to project success. You may consider a 12 inch Chop Saw as well, or even a 12 inch slider if space permits.

Do not by cheap hand tools unless you are simply looking for rough results. Hand tools can do things that power tools could not do and while 200.00 for a handplane sounds expensive, you will get the results you are looking for. The 39.99 carpenters plane at the big box store just will not provide you a good finished product.

My thoughts, perhaps not yours.

Good luck in outfitting your shop!!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I think I again need to reiterate a huge driving factor in my purchases - space. I'm working in (effectively) a 6x12 space, with a little extra where I can store some wood. Of that 6x12 space, I have tables which compromise 2' of that wall. I can store stuff on top and under, but not in place of. So a cabinet saw, floor drill press, etc...just aren't going to work. I'm not going to put the money into building a bigger shop, not with the terrain I have here. I also don't foresee moving anytime in the next five years at least.

A table-mounted drill press? Sure. I could figure that out. A table-mounted grinder? Absolutely. Stands for both? Perhaps - but that's an option that doesn't work in reverse for floor mounts.

For my table saw, I can't constantly take up space on my tables. Plus, I have no plans to cut inside. So I either need a folding stand, or a folding stand that rolls - which brings the contractor's saws into the picture. Once I realized that, I got rid of my expectation to spend only about $150. I've been perusing CL for some, but I have no idea what model numbers I should be looking for in what brands. I found a TS2400 for $50, but it needed a motor and a blade.

I'm interested to hear bout these modifications people have made to their TS, though. Like the fence, outfeed tables, modifying them to have a larger right cut, etc. My perfect TS would be able to cut a 1/2" dado, cut a 4x8 3/4" ply, and handle any hardwood up to about 5/4. That's the extent of the things I see myself doing for the next five years. No huge projects, because I don't have a huge space.

Part of what I'm going to be doing this summer is grading out the space in front of my shed so I have a dead-flat work area. Doing cuts on a 10" table saw on an uneven surface isn't my idea of a good time. One time was enough.


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## Snow_Owl (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi Chris,

It is very interesting to read your post and the response. Woodworking can be an expensive hobby and as at least one person has posted, "Buy the best you can afford at the time." 

About 25 years ago I started my woodworking hobby in a small 9 x 12 shop in the basement with a ShopSmith. It is a multi-tool based on a lathe. It can serve as a table saw, a Lathe, a drill press, a horizontal boring machine, and a disk sander. It has other attachments that it can drive (band saw, strip sander, belt sander, scroll saw, joiner, and planer). Despite what people will say it is and can be set up to make saw cuts to an accuracy of 0.001", time after time. 

My recommendation is to purchase one used. You want at least the 510 or if you can find one the 520. The 510 and 520 both share the same size work surface. The 520 has a professional quality rip fence that works great! These can be purchased for about $1000.00 to $1400.00 depending on what over accessories the owner is trying to sell with it. 

I still have my original 510 that has been upgrade to a 520. There is no need to replace several of it's capabilities. It cuts more accurate than Big Box store contractor saws. The extension tables make an aircraft carrier table platform when required for cutting plywood/sheet products SAFELY. Only high end cabinet saws give you close to that much table space. 

The great part about it is that when I'm done it all can be stored in a 2' x 6' (12 sqft) space in the shop and the workbench or assemble table can be rolled to the center of the shop to work like a king. 

New a ShopSmith will be over $3000.00. There are still a USA built and run company and you can purchase parts for any MARK V 500, or 510, or 520.

If you go with any of the multi-tool machines you will have to organize your work flow. When I first purchased mine Shopsmith gave a free course (1 day) that I took. It was worth every minute. They taught us how to organize our work and plan it out, so that you did not have to keep switching the machine between the various functions. A skill that I still use today.

If you would like to know more about the advantages and disadvantages you can e-mail me.

What to look for:
Table-Saws: 
The ability to align the arbor (saw blade) to the table miter slots and make everything square. A quality rip fence that can be accurately set-up and locks down with out any movement. (Cabinet type - 2hp - 3 hp for hard woods). If you can check the run out. Want the run out of the arbor to be less than 0.001"

Drill-Press:
Look for an old machine shop drill-press. Check for any play in the shaft, you want none. Check the shaft for play when it is extended less than 0.001" will be OK. Also mass is good and a large work surface. 

Compressors:
CFM is the concern. What are you going to do with it now and in the future? Purchase it to be slightly over-sized for your current needs so it can grow with you, your shop, and your skills and interest. If you plan to do spray painting then consider a large 20 - 30 gal tank that can supply high CFM. The nail-gun, unless you are doing roof, will not require a large CFM. Things to consider, do you plan to use air sander or air drills, or other air tools in your wood working? Traditionally, the home hobby workshop did not use air tools, however there are excellent air tools available that are great for the wood shop.

Miter Saw:
I have not yet purchased one of these. The look like a great addition to the shop, but my skill saw has always filled this role. My 25 year old Craftsman skill saw was dropped in a recent remodel and it had to be replaced with a Festool skill saw. I'm hooked, the Festool skill saw is 1000 times better and the cut is almost as good as the table saw with my expensive blade.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

jmg1017 said:


> Chris you mentioned portable table saw or one with folding legs. Here's one on sale at Lowes: Shop PORTER-CABLE 10" JobSite Table Saw at Lowes.com
> 
> Looks like a nice unit and has the safety features you'll need like blade guard and splitter. It does not come with a riving knife but not many contractors saws do and certainly none at that price point.


I looked at that one, and it was one of the better ones.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Chris, if you don't mind going used, look at Craigslist for table saws. You will very likely find a 10" Contractor's saw somewhere between $100 and $150. 

About 6-7 years ago I bought a high-end bench top saw new for around $400. At this point I deeply regret not spending the extra cash to got a good contractor's saw. I was at sears the other day, and they had two lines of table saws. One line was all bench top saws on various stands, and the other row was your cast iron (and granite top), contractor on up type saws. The high-end of the bench top saws was more expensive then the low-end of the cast irons. I have since corrected my mistake by buying a used contractor saw through Craigslist for $100, and have been very happy with it!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I've been scanning CL, but I don't know what I'm looking for. I've seen several at that price for days, but don't know what to avoid.


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## gmiller25 (Dec 20, 2005)

Cocheseuga said:


> I'm probably not going to be running anything thicker than a 2x4 through it for french cleats. At least, I see that as about my capacity.
> 
> Probably to cut shelving (16-18" wide, no more than 1" thick), square up stock, cut tenons, dados for 1/4" backer board, etc. I've never had a TS before, so it would be kind of a trial and error thing. See what I really want to do, and what I'm going to use it most for.


Your space limitation could work against you when it comes to shop safety. You need to have good walk-around clearance for the table saw. I started in half of a 2-car garage (9' x 19'). Most of my major tools were on moblie bases, so that I could expand out into the second bay when I needed to.

Cross-cutting wide boards on a table saw calls for a good adjustable miter gauge like the Osborne or a panel sled. The standard miter gauge won't provide enough support to the board, and will put you in a dangerous situation. Consider a left-tilt saw instead of right-tilt. The right side of the blade has the wider table for support of materials, and makes it easier than having to use additional tools to support bevel cuts on wider stock. An industrial t-square style cabinetmaker's fence will provide greater accuracy. However, the cut will only be as good as the saw setup -- a good quality blade, saw blade parallel to miter slots, fence parallel to blade, and blade tilt accurate at 45 and 90 degrees.

When buying any major power tool, always buy the best you can afford. Craigslist might have some good bargains, but sometimes the tool may need more in repairs than it's worth. You also need to consider dust collection ability of the major tools. A cabinet saw helps contain the dust more than an open back contractor's model. My Steel City 3 HP granite top cabinet saw weighs in at 400 lbs, and will not move around when making cuts. The 4" dust port on the back is connected into my dust collection system. It's also on a mobile base.

Make sure that the saw has a riving knife to help eliminate kickback. It's a requirement on all new table saws. Older ones won't have it. Consider putting the table saw on a mobile base. You can also use the space under the table for a rolling storage cabinet.

I have a Dewalt 12" dual bevel compound miter saw. If there's any cahnce you'll be doing crown molding in the future, this saw will easily handle that without having to flip the stock around to make the second cut.

For the drill press, I started with a 12" bench top, but also upgraded this to a 17" floor stand type. The quill throw is a full 6" with a microadjustment, and eliminates a lot of frustration in having to continuously raise/lower the table when drilling different pieces for the same project.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Again, I won't be making cuts in the shed. The table saw and miter saw would come outside for that. And for that reason, D/C isn't going to be a consideration.

But I appreciate the rest.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Cocheseuga said:


> I looked at that one, and it was one of the better ones.


I did a bit of research into this one, and it doesn't look to fit the bill. It's got a non-standard table insert that has to be removed when using a dado.

Still looking.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I know this is the Dayton Ohio versus your area, but hopefully this helps. This is actually a better deal then what I got, a nice saw and added goodies. The nice thing is the wings are removable, so you can make it fit in a smaller space if need be. 10" Craftsman Table Saw With EXTRAS

The guy I bought the saw from (had auto resteration shop in his backyard!) probably thought I was insane when I went to go look at it. I brought a full bag of tools and a couple pieces of oak to look over the saw. I spent a good 20 minutes just checking every bit of the saw making sure everything was good and square before I even powered on the saw. Then I made a few cuts with it just to see how the saw felt. This was time well spent! Of course to top it off, I still asked him to knock $25 off his asking price! (He accepted too!)

One thing I will add is that saw I bought from craigslist (craftsman as well) was likely built in the 70s and was missing the dado insert. I walked into my local sears, bought one of the dado inserts sitting on the shellf, and was very happy to see that it fit! So the good new is you may just be able to still get some parts for an older saw.

I am not sure if this is anywhere near you, but this is the same saw I bought.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/tls/1709533403.html

Notice that with the way the fence slides, you can take the left wing off and will give you a lot of saved room.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

As far as new ones go, the Craftsman 21828 looks intriguing. May look at it in the store, and the price is right (at $212, vs $330 for MSRP).

Still looking, though. No decisions imminent.


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## JiminKY (May 4, 2010)

Cocheseuga said:


> Thanks for all the advice so far...
> 
> http://www.skiltools.com/en/AllTools/Category/Product/default.html?pid=3400-12&cid=46
> Skil - Tablesaw - Benchtop - Circular Saw - Skilsaw - Power Tools
> ...


FWIW, I have this exact saw that I bought new at Lowes, over a year ago. On sale and with a 10% off coupon, it came to under $140, and I have been quite pleased with it. Other than having to pretty much immediately replace the cheap plastic handle used to lock the fence (I used a 6" carriage bolt), I have not had any problems with the saw's performance. It has done me well in ripping fence pickets,precise cuts of wood flooring planks, and cutting dados for a wine rack I built, among other things. I have it bolted to a rolling cabinet that I made, so I can't speak to the quality of the stand, although the pieces seem sturdily designed.

Granted, I wouldn't know how to measure precision to the thousandth of an inch, and I always measure and mark what I want to cut (as opposed to relying on the table's markings). I consider myself a "weekend warrior" with the same problem justifying the cost of the quality I want to my wife. For me, this has proven a good tool for a great price. I am hoping I will have the same luck with my first router, which is also a Skil I just purchased.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm going to finally knock one of these off my list with a 10" compound sliding miter tomorrow.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Best laid plans, and all that.

Couldn't buy the miter saw, because they don't have it in stock. And no idea if I'll ever get my hands on one while on sale, because they're being taken directly off the back of the truck.

So, I was considering the Hitachi C10FCE2 (Link) or the Ryobi TS1342L (Link).

Both have pretty good reviews, but I'm leaning towards the Hitachi.

The Porter Cable $300 saw at Lowes is still my leading contender for the TS, unless I can find one of those clearanced Ridgid units.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Cocheseuga said:


> Best laid plans, and all that.
> 
> Couldn't buy the miter saw, because they don't have it in stock. And no idea if I'll ever get my hands on one while on sale, because they're being taken directly off the back of the truck.
> 
> ...


I'd get the Hitachi.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Chris,

after rereading some of the posts, i saw you said you would need to take the tablesaw outside of the shed.

i dont know your circumstances, but outside my shop is a grass yard. my shop floor is concrete.

if you can roll the ts outside onto concrete, that will work. but if you have to roll across dirt or grass, i would not recommend the ridgid. the caster are small and meant for concrete and the saw is heavy as hell.

i wouldnt want to move mine outside even on concrete as i would have to get it over a threshold.

for portability, ive seen saws that are mounted on foldup stands with large wheels. that may be a good option.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Hey Chris, Thought I,d chime in here with a few thoughts. Do you really need a tablesaw at all? The reason I ask is whats going to be the primary use for it. I,m thinking short crosscuts and maybe dados if you find a saw worthy of being able to do that. My suggestion would be to look into the Pro Grip clamps from Peachtree Woodworking for a long clamps(over100 inches) and the circular and router guides to fit it. This will allow you to break down sheet goods with a circular saw and do Dados with the router as well on a set of good sawhorse,s. As far as the miter saw I,ve had good luck with my Ryobi 10 inch for several yrs and while not the baddest or biggest it gets the job done period and friends who work in construction tell me the little Harbor Freight 10 inch slider ain,t bad for the money either. As far as compressors go the Harbor Freight 2 h.p. 8 gal thats on sale all the time for $89 seem to work well for them also. I have a friend with 1 that runs 2 guns all day nailing everyting from flooring guns to framing nailers and it has yet to fail him. This leaves you money for other things like the small drillpress a benchtop will work well for you I,m sure. Now if this hobby starts to grow on you(and all of us know it will) then be prepared to spend more as your skills improve, but these will get you accurate cuts easily. But if you can get a BT3000 on the cheap in good shape grab it, They are excellent for a small shop and most come outfitted with wheels for mobility as well as an sliding miter fence and a spot for a router saving a lot of space. Check over at BT3Central.com for more info on that particular saw. Its what I had when I first started and would still if I had not gotten the deal on the R4511 that I did,whew that was a mouthful,Tommy


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Funnily enough, I just saw a BT3000 advertised tonight on CL for $300.

I'll be grading and setting concrete pavers in front of the shed for a work area. Which is why I think you're right, a portable contractor's saw is probably going to be best.

The reason I want a table saw is for rip cuts, dado cuts. Mainly I want dead-on rips. Those Pro Grip clamps start to really add up where you start getting into used TS territory. So if I get a TS, I need one with at least 24" cut capability. I do have a piece of wood that I consider pretty straight, but I still feel hindered. I don't know if I actually am, but I feel that way.

I have access (albeit I have to go get them) to the el cheapo Ryobi 10" TS (webbed wings, crap fence, knife/guard moves around) and a actually fairly decent Firestorm FS100L miter saw if I need them. But I have this itch (perhaps irrational) to own my own stuff and have it on-site.

After trying to rip a sheet of plywood on the Ryobi on a table, on an uneven surface, by myself...I knew several changes needed to be made. I'm leveling a work surface, and getting a better saw. Not to say the little saw didn't do a good job of actually ripping the wood.

Sounds like I'm trying to justify the TS, doesn't it? I also am trying to eliminate any saws without a 3/4" miter, but I'm starting to wonder if it's really necessary? I know I wouldn't be able to use any commercially available sleds and guides, but...so? How important is that really to me for a tool I'm not planning to have once I get a new place?

I guess I just want the ability to do an entire job in my backyard without having to plan ahead for borrowing tools. The stand with the MS I borrow requires a SUV to tote.

Perhaps what would serve me just as well is a cheap TS (or the one I'm using now) in a safe stand with an outfield table. And maybe I'm just rambling.


I also slightly wonder if the HF sliding saw (which I'd prefer, but am starting to think what kind of storage pain it would be) gets good reviews, if the non-sliding would as well. That drops down to $50 in three weeks, and I could put on a really good blade for the same price as my other options.

Paralysis by analysis.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

After some serious last minute hemming and hawing, I went to HF to look at the 10" non-slider. It was tempting. And after asking again about the slider, I went to Lowe's and bought the Hitachi. 

There are a couple of things that are iffy, such as not including the side support bars. But since I didn't need them, it was only disappointing, not a deal breaker. This thing is super light, something that will come in handy. Almost too light. Got it with a 10% coupon for about $118. It was dead-on accurate for the motets out of the box. Bevel may or may not be perfect, I'll have to get another angle finder to be sure. Dust bag is pretty useless, but I'll post more opinions as I use it. 

I had researched it online, including Amazon. Wake up this morning to find out it's the deal of the day for $94.99 to my door. Couldn't resist, and it will be here Wednesday and I'll return one to Lowe's.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cocheseuga said:


> After some serious last minute hemming and hawing, I went to HF to look at the 10" non-slider. It was tempting. And after asking again about the slider, I went to Lowe's and bought the Hitachi.
> 
> There are a couple of things that are iffy, such as not including the side support bars. But since I didn't need them, it was only disappointing, not a deal breaker. This thing is super light, something that will come in handy. Almost too light. Got it with a 10% coupon for about $118. It was dead-on accurate for the motets out of the box. Bevel may or may not be perfect, I'll have to get another angle finder to be sure. Dust bag is pretty useless, but I'll post more opinions as I use it.
> 
> I had researched it online, including Amazon. Wake up this morning to find out it's the deal of the day for $94.99 to my door. Couldn't resist, and it will be here Wednesday and I'll return one to Lowe's.


HI Chris - I'd have done the same thing
I'm pretty sure that is the same mitre saw I have and it has been good to me. Laser has a parralax problem with mitres though, don't trust it. I've got mine mounted to a chunk of 1/2" OSB so I can hide it in a corner and clamp it to something when I need it. Moved it out to the back yard last weekend and clamped to a little flatbed trail to build a picnic table.
Congratulations on your acquisition


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I went with the non-laser version. Couldn't see paying $30 for the laser when I could get an add-on for $20. If I even want one.

I'm fairly close to having my station done, hopefully I can get some pictures today.

And I'm really disappointed in doing dadoes with my router. Even using a guide, it floats everywhere. Can't wait to get a more reliable setup.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cocheseuga said:


> I went with the non-laser version. Couldn't see paying $30 for the laser when I could get an add-on for $20. If I even want one.
> 
> I'm fairly close to having my station done, hopefully I can get some pictures today.
> 
> And I'm really disappointed in doing dadoes with my router. Even using a guide, it floats everywhere. Can't wait to get a more reliable setup.


I bought mine used and it had the laser on it.. After usiing it, I wouldn't cough up any extra money for it. Totally worthless outside. Nice, bright day the thing disappears. Accurate on crosscuts as long as you remember which side of the blade you adjusted it to.
Dunno what to tell you about the dado's. It should track tight against the guide...... dumb question but you are sure you are going in the right direction with it?


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I tried both directions. The bit seems to follow the grain regardless.

The dadoes on the underside of my new table are horrendous.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Hey didn,t know if you were aware of this deal. Sears has the 21829 model mobile tablesaw on sale. Theres a webdeal over at Slickdeals.net where folks have been getting it for $257 at the store w/in store p/u. Heres, the saw,http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921829000P?aff=Y&sid=I0084400010000100383 ,and heres, the link to SD,LIVE AGAIN - Sears 21829 table saw $287 before tax & BCB free store pickup YMMV - SlickDeals.net Forums


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I saw that (see what I did there?). Unfortunately, I can't seem to get my price that low. $327 is about what I can get it down to.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cocheseuga said:


> I tried both directions. The bit seems to follow the grain regardless.
> 
> The dadoes on the underside of my new table are horrendous.


Might try a bushing with a guide on both sides. :blink:


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

You know, that's not a half-bad idea. I may have an idea, but I don't know when I'll get around to implementing a rough draft.

It would work for routers and saws, too. Now you got me scheming, John!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I did some time-wasting on Google, and I noticed a lot of people using table saw stations with portable units, and it looks like they can do anything I want to do. Hmm...


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Tommyt654 said:


> Hey didn,t know if you were aware of this deal. Sears has the 21829 model mobile tablesaw on sale. Theres a webdeal over at Slickdeals.net where folks have been getting it for $257 at the store w/in store p/u. Heres, the saw,http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921829000P?aff=Y&sid=I0084400010000100383 ,and heres, the link to SD,LIVE AGAIN - Sears 21829 table saw $287 before tax & BCB free store pickup YMMV - SlickDeals.net Forums


I just ordered it for $302 after taxes. I was leaning toward the PCB220TS at Lowe's, but I was able to get this one down cheaper. I don't know if it was a mistake or not, but I'm willing to live with it or return it.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I've had the saw for two weeks now, and I can tell you that it is by far the best addition to the shop thus far.

Currently looking at a drill press to add, but I'm just looking at this point.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Chris.. its good to hear you have very well satisfied with your saw!!!! It must be nice to walk into your shop now and know you've got an anchor you can trust!!

bout 5 years ago, I picked up a standup DP. Great drill, I've been very pleased with it, but to be honest, I'd been ahead of the game just picking up a bench top unit and saved a couple hundred bucks. I"m sure a benchtop is what you're considering, You always see alot of em in craigs list and even on the bay. Bet you could find a good deal for a hundred bucks or less... good luck...

bill


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Probably. But I could also find room for a floor stander, especially if I make a cabinet to go underneath. 

We'll see. Not really room in the budget at this point, but I'm known to make exceptions. I'm going to make a mortise jig for my router this weekend, that will influence things a bit.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

A contractors table saw with a shop built dust box under it is my best bang for the buck. A little sheet metal across the back notched for the belt and you got a cabinet saw with motor outside. But no matter what you will probably be unhappy till you buy a good fence.

I feel that the Hitachi compound slide mitre is the best. 
1. Large blades wobble more. 
2. the hitachi holds it adjustment even under jobsite abuse. 

Drill press -shop for an old used one. Motors are easy to replace.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I tried to add a couple of planers to the shop over the past week or so, but it seems like someone is sitting on them when they come up on Craigslist. Both a Ridgid and a Ryobi went with in a couple of hours.

Grr.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm considering making the drill press the next purchase. Looking at the 44836 @ Harbor Freight below:

12 Speed Bench Top Drill Press


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

I feel that the Hitachi compound slide mitre is the best.
1. Large blades wobble more. 

hi Bill,
if you get a high quality saw like the dewalt 12 inch slidesaw, you wont have any problems with wobble as in the cheap saws. 

you will also get a much more precise and accurate cut.

but you do have to pay more for the dewalt.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

Cocheseuga said:


> I'm considering making the drill press the next purchase. Looking at the 44836 @ Harbor Freight below:
> 
> 12 Speed Bench Top Drill Press


hi Chris,

a drill press is a great addition to any shop. its a tool you will use more and more. anytime you need to drill multiple holes, the dp is the go to tool.

i rely on my dp more and more. i have sanding drums, a mortise set, drill bits of different kinds, and they all work great, but i really use mine for using holesaws and using the forstner bits more.

the forstner bits make such smooth and accurate holes that we often need for jigs and other uses. i really like and utilize my forstner bits a lot!

im sure a benchtop would work great. i bought a grizzly floor model and use it daily. i only paid a few bucks more when i bought it. it was 199 bucks and probably gets more use than any tool in my shop.

good luck on your shopping. i might add i just never seem to find real deals on craigslist. often when i look at tools, they seem to be rather worn and rusty, but ive seen many of our members get great deals!


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

If you have room/money for a floor model drill press, I think you find it more useful than a table top. I also use my drill press a lot and forstner bits are great.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Chris

If you get the bench model here's a little tip, mount it to the work bench backwards that's to say turn the dress press base around so the drill head is over the edge in that way you can drill tall items in the press just like a floor model  most have a set screw that locks the head in place to the post of the drill press...

======



Cocheseuga said:


> I'm considering making the drill press the next purchase. Looking at the 44836 @ Harbor Freight below:
> 
> 12 Speed Bench Top Drill Press


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> HI Chris
> 
> If you get the bench model here's a little tip, mount it to the work bench backwards that's to say turn the dress press base around so the drill head is over the edge in that way you can drill tall items in the press just like a floor model  most have a set screw that locks the head in place to the post of the drill press...
> 
> ======


That was the plan, if I got the bench top model. In fact, I was going to mount it to a rolling file cabinet that I needed to do something with, so I should have great versatility.


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## novice wood guy (Jun 30, 2010)

*Used the tip and smae drill press*



bobj3 said:


> HI Chris
> 
> If you get the bench model here's a little tip, mount it to the work bench backwards that's to say turn the dress press base around so the drill head is over the edge in that way you can drill tall items in the press just like a floor model  most have a set screw that locks the head in place to the post of the drill press...
> 
> ======


I have the HF table top, kind of inheritied it when a buddy upgraded to a floor model. Had an issue with one of the handles, so HF replaced with the one you are looking at on your link. Mounted it as described above. When I was just fixing stuff around the house it was good enough for anythng I did. Since I got into woodworking, have found a few times that a floor model wood have been the better way to go, but I am in zero dollars for this model, have a limited budget and floor space, so for now, it stays. Once I have the budget, and my shop to the point of space worked, may upgrade. Only time and my wallet will tell.

Good luck with your shop, it is fun and scary setting the first one, scary cause you don't want to invest in the wrong tool (have done this more than I care to admit) and fun because every new tools opens up so many possibilities.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm stuck between the 44836 at HF and the DP102L at Home Depot. Biggest difference is that the HF has 12 speeds vs 5, and the Ryobi has a laser and light. The Ryobi just seems to stand out over it, honestly. I could also attach a mortiser to it.

If I go with the Ryobi, I wonder if I should spend a bit more and get the one with the digital readout.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I should be picking up a DP1550 this weekend!


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Got a line on a planer. I think it's a AP1300, but the guy wasn't sure. He's asking $100. If it is indeed a 1300 and not a 1301, is that a good deal?


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

just my opinion and after reading reviews, id look for one ot the dw planers. they are on craigslist occasionally and have really good reviews.

i have to admit im partial, i own one. but they are top of the line and replacing blades is very simple. 

i recently looked into replacing knives on my jointer and now wish it were as easy as replacing the knives on my dw planer.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

All the reviews I have read put the DeWalt 735 at the top of the list of planers. I don't own one but wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I was in the market.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

I,m willing to bet its an AP10 not a 1300 or 1301 for that price,but I could be wrong


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Chris,

i would check on the availability of knives for the planer. ive read that you could have problems getting the knives from hd.

planers go through knives like my wife goes through makeup. 

i hope she doesnt see this.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

The Dewalt ones I've seen on CL are huge $$. This is either the 1300 or 1301, as he said it's a 13". I'll check on the knives tonight.

Edit - knives are available on Amazon for $23/pair shipped. Or $19.91 from HD if I get free shipping otherwise.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

ive seen them for around 200. sometimes it pays to be patient. 

Jerry got a great deal on a dewalt and is very pleased with it.

ive been looking for a couple of items on cl and will eventually find what im looking for, i hope, lol


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

All the ones at that kind of discount go within hours, if not minutes. This one is buried with other things, and wasn't too descriptive.

If it doesn't work out, I'll just bide my time. Otherwise, it sounds like a good deal.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Not sure what I am doing right or wrong. but the Wilton first reversal on the knives was early this year, more than a year old and I ran a lot of wood through that thing!! It has been a good planer, just time to move up thus the DeWALT and the Ridgid. 

Check out http://www.holbren.com/jointer-planer-knives/ and http://www.toolstoday.com/p-5578-planer-jointer-knife-sets-t-1-high-speed-steel-hss.aspx.



levon said:


> hi Chris,
> 
> i would check on the availability of knives for the planer. ive read that you could have problems getting the knives from hd.
> 
> ...


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

Tommyt654 said:


> I,m willing to bet its an AP10 not a 1300 or 1301 for that price,but I could be wrong


i had the AP10 planer It worked very good Done a good job I used i i would say at least once a day The blades I had sharpen when they need it I belive the blades cost a little Around $80.00 now go here and look If it is a AP10 ap10 planer blades - Google Search If it is this one I wouldn't pay $100 for it My 2cent's Now if it is 1300 or 1301 Yes i would go for that amount I have a planer so i wouldn't need 2 good luck


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It was indeed a 1300, and it is dust covered and in the shop! It was also great to meet Tommy when I picked up my drill press. 

I have the full story at the link below.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Glad I could help out Chris,Nice meeting you as well,Good Luck with the DP and let me know when you start lookin for that bandsaw,Tommy


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Good find my friend. The three of us need to get together in the near future, just let me know. Yes Tommy is a top notch guy and friend.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

It looks like I'm missing three things from the DP: the key, the wrench and the switch key. I took care of the later thanks to a trip to Home Despot (here, just take this one), and it took a trip to ACE to find a 5/8 key.

When I register it, I'm going to request all three anyway, it would be nice to have extras. I'm going to measure everything on it, but I haven't found a concise explanation of what I'm doing.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

http://dl.owneriq.net/a/ad58cc88-c74f-4ceb-b81a-7fb945ab6bfd.pdf ,Here you go Chris, also check where the belt adjustments are,a lot of times they,ll put the extra tools up there.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks, I grabbed that Sunday night. Only problem is, I can't find one for the planer. But I think after seeing someone's personal site I can muddle my way through it.

Unfortunately, the stand that got thrown in isn't going to work at all. No room for it as is.


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

Here,s one for the AP1301, I know its a little different, but the operating priciples are the same I would think, maybe it,ll help a little, Check with the guys over @ BT3Central, I,m sure someone there has one, http://dl.owneriq.net/2/2cd026bb-f738-4081-9169-7ff6be8d26af.pdf


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