# Can't get the hang of template routing



## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

New user here, looking for tips from someone more experienced about how to use a template and guide bushing without damaging the workpiece.

I am trying to make the Ron Paulk Total Station workbench. It requires routing several large rectangular holes, about 18" by 6", with round ends, using a template and guide bushings.

So far, I have ruined three templates and three workpieces. It seems that while rounding the six inch diameter half circles, the router leaves the template and gouges the template or the workpieces. I can't seem to get the hang of how to keep the router down against the template while also pressing it toward the template as it goes around the curve. The harder I try to push down and toward the template, the more likely the router is to jump. But, if I don't push down and toward the template, the router walks inward away from the template.

Is the guide bushing depth of about (3/16") is too short for the template depth of 1/2"? 

Would making the template thinner (1/4") help? Or thicker (3/4") and switching the guide bushing to the longer one (9/16")? I think if I go thicker then my bit won't reach all the way through the workpiece and I'll have to rout from both sides. Not sure I can do this and keep everything aligned.

Do I need to keep the same side of the router facing the template as I go around the curve?

I am also wondering if putting some template wood in the center of the oval template would help, to keep the router from tipping toward the center?

I am to the point where I am trying to figure out how to make the workbench without using a router, since I am so bad at it.

I would consider buying a better router like the Bosch 1617 but only have the budget right now for the workbench, not for the router. 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. I am new to woodworking and want to get past this frustrating learning curve.

BTW, I tried to include URL's for the project and the guide bushings but the forum won't let me until I make 10 posts(?)

Project: Ron Paul Total workstation 

Router: Skil 1835 (inherited from Dad)

Template router base and bushings: Milescraft 1201 

Router bit: 1/2" straight cut


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. When you get a chance you could edit your profile so we have a name to refer to you with instead of Hey You. I first though t you might be using an down cut spiral because of the lifting but you are using a straight bit. Does it have a down shear cutting action? The 3/16" guide isn't a lot but it should be enough but it sounds like you may be pushing hard to get the router to cut. Personally I would probably rough cut out the holes with a jigsaw and only leave 1/16 to 1/4" for the router to trim off. Routers are harder to control when you are cutting with the full diameter of the bit. Routers are best at trimming and profiling, they aren't the best tool for removing waste.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Feed direction is part of the problem. If you are feeding the router in the correct direction it actually pulls the router tight to the template.

http://www.routerforums.com/portable-routing/61617-what-am-i-doing-wrong-flush-trim-routing.html

Making sure you have a plunge bit is important. Not all straight cutters can plunge, there is usually a tiny cutter on the bottom. 

You are on the right track with a scrap in the center to keep the router from tipping.

Practice on cheap stock, you'll get the bugs worked out fast


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

From your description, it appears you are not rough cutting the holes with a jig saw. Personally, I would cut out the holes to within 1/8 to 1/16" of the line and then use the router and template to clean up the edge. The router is a great tool for many things but it makes a terrible saw. 

I know that removes the center part that you are using for support to prevent tipping but there are other ways to do that. I would make sure the work piece is always between the bit and you. This makes it easier to place weight on the supported side of the router base as you can pull the router tight against the template while pressing down. For doing a hole, that means stopping the router and moving several times. Or, you could do it on a router table with a lot more control but I assume you don't have one.

You can still plunge a "non-plunging" bit by working it back and forth a little as you push down.

As doug said, you should avoid climb cutting - the easiest way to remember this is the router should be resisting the direction you move in. If it's pulling you along, you're going the wrong way. Going the correct direction will cause the router to pull tight against the template. If you are climb cutting it will try to pull away from the template.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@kglade

I will assume that your template is not in the center of the hole but on the perimeter, so that you are cutting out the inner portion of the "circle".
If that is the case, I would suggest that you cut most of the waste (the inside portion of the cutout) with a jigsaw - then using the template, route the rest of it.

What's most important is the feed direction - are you routing clockwise around the circle - that's the proper direction that will tend to pull the router towards the template.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

If you rough cut the center out, you don't need a plunge bit. The most important advice here is the direction you are cutting. always cut against the rotation of the bit. Don't back up and try to clean up the cut, always go the right direction. the bit will pull you tight to the template. Like everyone says, the router has a mind of its own if you go the wrong direction. And cut out the hole with a saber saw then clean it up with a template and router.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you may be climb cutting...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

have some more..


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

Thanks all for the tips. I will experiment some more over the weekend.

I am routing with the proper feed direction, so that isn't it, but as a couple of you correctly guessed I am NOT pre-cutting with the saber saw.
I was (foolishly?) following the video of Ron Paulk making the parts and he just uses his router and template. I guess he is a professional so makes it look easy.
@Doug, I didn't know that some bits can't plunge, but the bit I have plunges well so I guess I got lucky when I bought it.
@vince, yes, I am cutting out the center, and will try your jigsaw suggestion.
@Phil, I do have a router table but don't know how to use it or how it might help.
@stick, thanks for the router pdf's. I will study them.

I will try to pre-cut with the saber saw and then rout.

Thanks, again, to all for the tips and ideas. It is nice to have found a forum with people who are willing to answer my novice questions!

Ken


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@kglade...

FWIW....
if you use @ deal to address who you want to speak to you need to use their correct full screen name for the notice to work correctly...
if you you don't your notification will be redirected to someone else...
on the left is the name you used and on the right is the one you need to use... 
@Doug , @kp91.. @vince , @vchiarelli... @Phil , @PhilBa... @stick , @Stick486..

now since you liked those PDF's so well here are few more...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

and a few more...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

one more time...


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

@Stick486

Sorry, I didn't know about the @ deal. This is just how we call out people in emails at work. Doesn't give them an automatic notification, though. Cool feature.

Thanks for the tip on using the forum.

Ken


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@kglade..

another FWIW...
at the top of the page in the header there is a tab that reads *''Your Notifications''...*
it's there that you can keep up w/ your ''stuff''...
here there is a ''Stick'', a ''Stick'82'' and me... ''Stick486''...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I use templates with a router table all the time. I use either a top or bottom bearing bit. Set the bearing so it lines up with the template. No more problem of the router slipping. I use double sided tape to fix the template to the work piece. It works great, fast and you have a lot of control. The picture shows a pattern bit being used (top bearing) with the template on the bottom but you could also use a trim bit (bottom bearing) with the template on top. 

You should also use a starting post though I admit to not always doing so.

I love bushings but in this case a pattern/trim bit is a little easier. No need to figure out offsets.


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

@PhilBa,

Thanks for the photo about the router table. I will have to try that once I get more experience with routers in general
One question, though, what kind of double-sided tape do you use? Is it the skotch yellow package kind that one finds in Staples?


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

@ken
check here this tape in different widths and many brands ( looks like masking tape)
1" X 36 Yard Double-Sided Turner's Tape - Rockler Woodworking Tools


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I use this stuff. Really like it a lot. Don't know how it stacks up against rockler's but it is a bit cheaper. 36 yards goes a long way.

I've tried a bunch of other ds tapes and you really want the kind that's intended for woodworking. Carpet tape will do in a pinch but it's hard to get off. A lot of other ds tapes are way too thick.

Clean both pieces well - VOE. Another thing, be a bit sparing with it because if you use too much, it becomes really hard to separate.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Ken we're big on safety here so I like to point safety issues out when possible. Most of the time I prefer using a bottom bearing flush trim bit as opposed to a top bearing (on the shaft) pattern bit, but especially on a router table. The reason is that the cutting edge of the bit is usually a bit longer than your template and work piece are thick. That leaves the exposed cutting edge where your fingers could come into contact with it. 

A bottom bearing flush trim bit has the bearing at the end and never sticks up past the top of the work, at least not totally. You could touch the bearing without getting hurt.


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Semipro said:


> @ken
> check here this tape in different widths and many brands ( looks like masking tape)
> 1" X 36 Yard Double-Sided Turner's Tape - Rockler Woodworking Tools


there are many companies that sell double face tape, Rockler if look is tuner tape I guarantee that this tape wood together and turn it on a lathe but it is ***** to get a part 
I prefer spectrum the trouble is I don't know where to buy it except from Shopsmith 
can buy it by the case uline 
carpet tape from Home Depot or the big box stores is not designed to be taken back apart 
the Spectrum Co manufactures most of the tape used in industrial applications


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

more on safety...

.


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

I also found a tape by Avery (search avery woodworking tape on Amazon). It's supposed to have an aggressive adhesive on one side and a repositionable adhesive on the other, so you can remove and replace the template to fine tune its position.


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

@Cherryville Chuck
Thanks for the tip about bottom bearing. I haven't used my router table yet. Wanted to get more familiar with the router first.


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## kglade (Mar 27, 2016)

*Like Night and Day*

I did a little more work on my workbench project this weekend and the results were much, much better. Thanks, again, to everyone for the suggestions.

The router work, with my old Skil 1835, went smoothly. I even commented to my wife that the router cut 'like butter.' It was night and day compared to how I struggled to control it originally.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

kglade said:


> I did a little more work on my workbench project this weekend and the results were much, much better. Thanks, again, to everyone for the suggestions.
> 
> The router work, with my old Skil 1835, went smoothly. *I even commented to my wife that the router cut 'like butter.*' It was night and day compared to how I struggled to control it originally.


Ken - glad to hear it's going well now.

On your first post you admitted/recounted several issues you were having. I just want to point out that you have made another mistake (hopefully your last).

Never, ever, ever, under any circumstance, tell your wife that what you are doing is easy. It may prevent you from getting more new tools. :wink:


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Yes, and when she looks at something and says "do you think you could make that?", you need to think for a bit and then say yes, if I had xxxx. Where xxxx is what ever you want to get next.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> Yes, and when she looks at something and says "do you think you could make that?", you need to think for a bit and then say yes, if I had xxxx. Where xxxx is what ever you want to get next.


You got it! A number of years ago, wiife wanted some crown molding up in the den - didn't want to bring my larger compressor in - got a nice pancake compressor out of the deal - when she want something done, I get a new tool:laugh2:


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> You got it! ... when she want something done, I get a new tool


But I don't got it. I've found that when the new tools come in, the expectations go up faster than the new tools can keep up. Then what???? :crying:

My wife loves to garden and now when she says "Can't we just BUY furniture?" I can only say, "Well, can't we just BUY vegetables?" It's not working. Please help.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

furboo said:


> But I don't got it. I've found that when the new tools come in, the expectations go up faster than the new tools can keep up. Then what???? :crying:
> 
> My wife loves to garden and now when she says "Can't we just BUY furniture?" I can only say, "Well, can't we just BUY vegetables?" It's not working. Please help.


I see you "don't got it" and you need some help.

When your wife is in the garden, she's not in your shop. If she's not in the shop, she doesn't have free time to think of stuff. She can't be in both places at once, see? You need to encourage her to find more hobbies - there, fixed it for you. You're welcome :grin:


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

You're a genius, Vince! :grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

furboo said:


> But I don't got it. I've found that when the new tools come in, the expectations go up faster than the new tools can keep up. Then what???? :crying:
> 
> My wife loves to garden and now when she says "Can't we just BUY furniture?" I can only say, "Well, can't we just BUY vegetables?" It's not working. Please help.


she needs to research green houses...


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

furboo said:


> But I don't got it. I've found that when the new tools come in, the expectations go up faster than the new tools can keep up. Then what???? :crying:
> 
> My wife loves to garden and now when she says "Can't we just BUY furniture?" I can only say, "Well, can't we just BUY vegetables?" It's not working. Please help.


I know that one. My wife likes the stuff I make but seems to be developing taste in painted (shudder...) and metal furniture. No, I'm not getting a welder though I am doing a painted bed side table for the guest bedroom we just redid with a featurewall (wallpaper). It's such a shame to cover up perfectly good wood with gloss enamal.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Sorry guys, you don't get it. Women can multi-task, so all the time they're talking to you about one thing they might like you to make, they're already thinking of the next, not to mention the fact that the same thing might be nice for someone else, and then there's their own hobbies and stuff they need, and the cooking for dinner, not to mention the new decor for the living room................


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

vindaloo said:


> Sorry guys, you don't get it. Women can multi-task, so all the time they're talking to you ....


Yep, if by multitask, you mean she can talk to me while watching me work, my wife is a master :wink:


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

multitasking - the art of pretending to do two things at once.

One of the biggest hiccups in my marriage has been her willingness to talk about the next task while I'm trying to figure out the current one. We've worked it out but it was touch-n-go for a while. I have to say despite the jokes I make about her, she is really pretty wonderful. Second time is the charm! It will be 2 years next month and it seems like the honeymoon never quite ended. Damn, just blew my curmudgeon cred...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> multitasking - the art of pretending to do two things at once.


*The Disadvantages of Multitasking
*
While doing many things at once has its pros, these advantages come with drawbacks. Doing multiple tasks simultaneously is reflective of diminished focus. This usually results in the employee producing poor work quality compared to someone who is assigned to do only one thing.

Multitasking could also be a time waster since you’ll need to switch from task to task, and may require constant reminder of what to do. This is especially difficult for people working in web design and development firms. In most situations, little work is completed since the individual who multitasks is constantly on the move towards the next item on their list, resulting in low overall daily productivity.

Multitasking makes us a little dumber - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
Multitasking Lowers Intelligence: Stanford Study
Science: Multitasking Lowers Your IQ, Hurts Performance and May Even Cause Brain Damage | RELEVANT Magazine


.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Ah, all studies done be men to diminish the brain of women. I have an IQ of 138 and multitask all the time, so using the study, my IQ is actually 148 to 153. Wow, who'd have thought.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> Ah, all studies done be men to diminish the brain of women. I have an IQ of 138 and multitask all the time, so using the study, my IQ is actually 148 to 153. Wow, who'd have thought.


WTB you are selling yourself short Angie...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

LOL never.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

If you can figure out how to get your wife to let you concentrate on the project that you are doing and not come to you with ideas and requests for 20 other things, I would very much like to know your solution. I've been married for 53 years and haven't yet convinced her to stop doing this to me. I love her, but I can't get anything done correctly, unless I can get her to leave me alone while I'm working. Sometimes I need "extra hands" and I will come up with alternatives to avoid getting her involved for this reason.

Charley


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## schmitt32linedrill (Apr 23, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> you may be climb cutting...
> 
> .


Those are all good points, guys, but you could also make a shallower cut and use several passes to complete the thru cut. Also drilling a starting hole would eliminate the need for plunging.

Art


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

This shot shows a plunge cutter which makes what you are attempting very easy because it cuts so easily that you only have to concentrate on keeping the template guide against the template.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I've just re-read all the posts and realised that I should have mentioned that when PLUNGE routing it makes no difference which direction the router is moved, the bit cuts in both directions.


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