# I need a framing nailer. Any suggestions?



## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

I don't want to break the bank but I don't want to be frustrated with a piece of junk.

Any ideas?

Bryan


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I don't want to break the bank but I don't want to be frustrated with a piece of junk.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Bryan



nails..

1st.. plastic collated
leave a major mess behind...
the most expensive..
damaged collation wastes... 

2nd... wire collated... 
damaged collation wastes... 
snippets of flying wire every time you fire demand eye protection...

3rd... paper collated.. 
cheapest..
less mess..
just don't get the strips wet..

I am really partial to the Hitachi and Bostich guns...


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I favor Hitachi on nail guns Mine have (finish and frame) lasted for years.


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

I got many years out of Passlode. Bought a replacement O-ring kit when I bought the gun and never used it. 
That was back in the 80"s so I am sure a lot has changed since than.


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

Bryon have you checked Crags list. Usually some good deals there.


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## PHANTOM SCROLLER (Dec 5, 2013)

Interesting funny you should say that, I have an electric one keeps jamming up so I'm looking for a good air driven one now that drives larger nails as well. So I'll watch this post for a while. Roly


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I don't want to break the bank but I don't want to be frustrated with a piece of junk.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Bryan


Find a local repair place, and see if they have any used ones for sale. They will have rebuilt ones that were never picked up after the rebuild. You will probably be able to buy them for the price of the rebuild.

Follow Sticks advice on the types. I have a Senco framer that has kept going for 30 years without a rebuild. My Paslode trim nailer has only been rebuilt once in the same period. 

I have to ask why you need a framing nailer? Unless your doing a lot of "heavy" work, it may not be worth buying. I bought mine only because of tendonitis (Tennis Elbow). I couldn't hold onto my framing hammer. 

If you just need one for specific job, i. e. a wooden privacy fence install, I would just rent one for the job. If you have a load of projects then it might be worth it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

renting can easily run you more than buying..
been there on that one...


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## smitty10101 (Oct 15, 2004)

*For occasional use??*

For occasional use or light duty use you can try HF --if they are near you.
I bought one years ago that adjusted the angle of the magazine so that you could/can use nails with different rake angles
It is pneumatic and rather large & heavy.
Does not take coiled nails only straight "rods"


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

schnewj said:


> Find a local repair place, and see if they have any used ones for sale. They will have rebuilt ones that were never picked up after the rebuild. You will probably be able to buy them for the price of the rebuild.
> 
> Follow Sticks advice on the types. I have a Senco framer that has kept going for 30 years without a rebuild. My Paslode trim nailer has only been rebuilt once in the same period.
> 
> ...


Well I don't really want to buy one but I do have some bad tendonitis all over my right arm and elbow, and forearm. I started therapy for it this week but the arm is pretty weak.

I'm starting on two decks soon and one will be covered coming off the gable end of the rear of our house mimicking the front porch. I'm mentioning that detail so you know I will be framing rafters and joist. A nailer sounds pretty good.

I also didn't mention the new garage I 'm going to build one day, it's been delayed in favor of this project. I did get a little persuasion from my wife here.

My neighbor across the street has one and has offered it for this job but I'm not really comfortable with that.

I'll look at what I read about on this thread and go from there.

Thanks all,

Bryan


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

smitty10101 said:


> For occasional use or light duty use you can try HF --if they are near you.
> I bought one years ago that adjusted the angle of the magazine so that you could/can use nails with different rake angles
> It is pneumatic and rather large & heavy.
> Does not take coiled nails only straight "rods"


I'm going to take a look at this. Thanks Smitty.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Here's another question*

What is the deal with the degree's of angle like 21° or 28°? Is that just for making toe in nailing or is there more to it than that?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I would say Bostich too. I have had several for decades without issue. And, you can get them repaired or rebuilt cheaply because parts are readily available.

My only caveat is that mine were made here in the US. Not sure where they are built now. Kinda like everything else; its a moving target.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Here is my attempt at a sketchup drawing*

I'm just trying to learn Sketchup but it's not too bad so far.
I hope this picture comes through.

Bryan


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## BTimmer (Feb 7, 2015)

Also, if you have pawn shops in your area, they can be a source. I purchased my roofing nail gun that way; my framing nailer off C/L, a brad nailer at Lowes, and a pin nailer at HF. All are different brands and work well.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't like Harbor Freight but for what you are planning I think it would do the job for you. With a 20% off coupon you can get a 21 degree nailer for about $ 57 dollars. It would certainty last a few jobs and after that you could throw it away. You could try it and if not satisfied with it take it back. You can buy the nails at Lowe's instead of HF. A nail gun is one of those tools that you will loose a lot on when you resell it so unless you plan on using it a lot there is no sense in spending a lot of money on it. Sometimes cheap makes sense but not usually.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I agree with what Stick said about collation. I have a German made one that has plastic collated nails and the flying bits of plastic are 1. annoying 2. painful 3. dangerous. You and everyone around you should be wearing wrap around safety glasses and fairly quickly no one will want to be working around you. I haven't used the wire collated but I would assume them to be worse. 

Before you buy one make sure you have a source for the nails. I think the angle has more to do with the design of the gun more than anything else but a gun will probably only only work with the right angle since a different angle would have the head in the wrong place for the driver or the point not over the chute.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Makita here . It has a more aggressive angle on the cartridge that holds the nails them some others . I guess that would keep body of the gun out of the way when your nailing in certain situations .
Seems like a pretty tight gun quality wise as I don't recall any jam ups .
They can sure be scary to use on occasion , as more than once I couldn't reach well at some precarious angle and instead of one nail a few followed right behind . 
Nurse next door said there the leading cause of accidents tool wise at the emergency ward


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

It really doesnt seem you have enough work for a nailer...i would suggest spending the bucks on screws...if you dont have a good driver, buy that instead...

Screws and a good driver will do many other jobs...just offering another view...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I'm just trying to learn Sketchup but it's not too bad so far.
> I hope this picture comes through.
> 
> Bryan


go w/ the Bostitch coil nailer that has depth adjustment and a plate tip... VOE...
you then do your framing, decking, (plywood not 2by's) sheathing, fencing, hangers, subfloors, siding, casings, some trim, strapping and wood to masonry...
this one is a brute of a work horse and has an array of nails that is outstanding...
excellent return on your money.. it's a no issue gun..
CS/TS is 1st rate too...
Bostitch N89C-1 3-1-2 in. High-Power Coil Framing Nailer.

the degree angle is dictated more by the size/length of the gun so that it fits between 16OC framing to do toe-nailing......


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I would not use nails on decks on the across the top boards. They will back out over time. Use deck screws. The deck screws won't rust over time.

I have an old Hitachi nailer. It is what we used when I was younger.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> go w/ the Bostitch coil nailer that has depth adjustment and a plate tip... VOE...
> you then do your framing, decking, (plywood not 2by's) sheathing, fencing, hangers, subfloors, siding, casings, some trim, strapping and wood to masonry...
> this one is a brute of a work horse and has an array of nails that is outstanding...
> excellent return on your money.. it's a no issue gun..
> ...



Now you've got me thinking.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> Now you've got me thinking.


it's a no brainer Bryan...


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

That Bostitch is one helluva gun!!

But screw the deck on.

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> That Bostitch is one helluva gun!!
> 
> But screw the deck on.
> 
> HJ


agreed...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

add underlayment to the list...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> add underlayment to the list...


I didn't see roofing, can it do roofing?


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Without having used any guns made after 2004 and going on my experience with the Hitachi Corp I would suggest looking at the Hitachi NV75AG or the NV90AG, they utilize a wide range of fasteners from 1 3/4 to 3 1/2", (the largest NV75 nail is only 3"). Regarding wire or plastic collation, while the plastic will fly, pretty much all of it is removed during normal daily/weekly cleanups. In 30+ yrs I've never heard of anyone ever taking a plastic chunk in the eye, (with or without eye protection). Regarding wire collation, unless they radically changed the method of releasing the nail from the coil there is no debris. The wire is thin and severed halfway between the nails as it is driven. However a strong 1/16" of wire does remain and protrude from each side of the nail. This does not affect the gun, nail as it is driven or the item being fastened. 

On another note, I have been required to pull nails from 4 or 5 crew members over the yrs. Wire collated nail make a mess of

I have 2 very old Paslode SK312s, (1985) inline, (sticks) paper collated both still kick butt, they are like the 1911A, the timex that takes a licking and keeps on ticking, you can't find them anymore. A great idea on the 312 was the application of glue to the nails prior to the paper collation, as the nail fired the glue melted then set after some time, (not so good on wet and or frozen lumber). 

Most of the refits over the last 30 yrs to all the newer guns, while adding many bells and whistles, have made them vulnerable to just about everything. I also have Hitachi nailers but not in the spike range, 6/8d, roofers and box nailers, I used the box nailers more for red cedar shings. Most are from the mid 80s, all my construction guns minus the Mak AN611 are prior to 1992. Back then a lot of crews used Bostitch coilers and some had Hitachi stick and coilers, one of the great things about the Paslode 312 is that it had the ability and power to let you tack nails, (for temporary items) that the other guns did not.

Good luck on your hunt, have you considered renting a gun? You might consider talking to a local repair shop to find out what comes in most for repairs. This might help you decide on what to buy


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I have a full set of nailers, from 1/2 head and full head framing all the way down to pins, but since I got my DeWalt impact drivers I do all of my framing with screws and the impact drivers. It isn't quite as fast, but the joint strength has to be 10X more than nailing. It's also better when remodeling, to avoid popping nails in the sheetrock on the other side of the studs, and you can unscrew the joint apart if changes are needed. I'll nail plywood to the framing, but the framing itself, gets screwed together now. Any of you who haven't tried installing screws with one of these impact screw guns doesn't know what he's missing.

Charley


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I didn't see roofing, can it do roofing?


no...
nail head is too small and you want screws on metal roofing...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

CharleyL said:


> I have a full set of nailers, from 1/2 head and full head framing all the way down to pins, but since I got my DeWalt impact drivers I do all of my framing with screws and the impact drivers. It isn't quite as fast, but the joint strength has to be 10X more than nailing. It's also better when remodeling, to avoid popping nails in the sheetrock on the other side of the studs, and you can unscrew the joint apart if changes are needed. I'll nail plywood to the framing, but the framing itself, gets screwed together now. Any of you who haven't tried installing screws with one of these impact screw guns doesn't know what he's missing.
> 
> Charley


I'm still considering whether or not to buy a nailer. I do have the dewalt 20 volt drill and driver set but I haven't used that driver much yet. I am planning on using it a lot for these builds and as well as the decking. I thought of the nailer because it would be easier to use when screwing and trying to hold a heavy board in place. I've also read where the screws are brittle and don't have as much strength with a load.

I just don't know.

Bryan


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I'm still considering whether or not to buy a nailer. I do have the dewalt 20 volt drill and driver set but I haven't used that driver much yet. I am planning on using it a lot for these builds and as well as the decking. I thought of the nailer because it would be easier to use when screwing and trying to hold a heavy board in place. I*'ve also read where the screws are brittle and don't have as much strength with a load.*
> 
> I just don't know.
> 
> Bryan


they must have been using drywall screw,,,
you need to use the correct screw for the job...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-5-Tool-Framing-Nailer/dp/B00788HWH6 

Since it won't be an every day tool, I went with Campbell Hausfeld Nailer Kit arounr 5 years ago. The Framing gun works well as with the Finishing. Staple and Brad guns. Renovated the house and they are still working. For the price of a Bosch Framing gun you can get the 4 nailers.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nailers are invaluable, but a major investment if you don't have a long term use for them. I have both 3" and 2 1/4" nails for my old Haubold spiker...but it's really heavy. No way would I want to use it one handed to nail wall sheathing. 
My coil nailers are my first choice for rapid nailing; sheathing, subflooring, etc.
*If you're up on a ladder or the roof, install a safety lanyard on your nailer...attached to somthing that's not going anywhere.
I was talking to a contractor, last week, that was hanging Hardiplank siding across the street. _Twice in 10 minutes the airline uncoupled and his nailgun fell 25' to the ground._..fortunately very soft boggy soil. No damage done but _once_ would have been my wakeup call!


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> they must have been using drywall screw,,,
> you need to use the correct screw for the job...


Now that's a lot of information! Thank you. I've got it saved.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Marco said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-5-Tool-Framing-Nailer/dp/B00788HWH6
> 
> Since it won't be an every day tool, I went with Campbell Hausfeld Nailer Kit arounr 5 years ago. The Framing gun works well as with the Finishing. Staple and Brad guns. Renovated the house and they are still working. For the price of a Bosch Framing gun you can get the 4 nailers.


I do have a crown stapler and a brad nailer so I don't need the big set but there are other nailers in that set to consider.

Bryan


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

CharleyL said:


> I have a full set of nailers, from 1/2 head and full head framing all the way down to pins, but since I got my DeWalt impact drivers I do all of my framing with screws and the impact drivers. It isn't quite as fast, but the joint strength has to be 10X more than nailing. It's also better when remodeling, to avoid popping nails in the sheetrock on the other side of the studs, and you can unscrew the joint apart if changes are needed. I'll nail plywood to the framing, but the framing itself, gets screwed together now. Any of you who haven't tried installing screws with one of these impact screw guns doesn't know what he's missing.
> 
> Charley


Charley I see lots of guys using screws to attach framing these days, including Mike Holmes and other well known contractors on HGTV (maybe only in Canada, I have no way of knowing otherwise). I personally think it is a bad idea and for the following reason. Screw metal doesn't flex much before it gets brittle and snaps. My front steps on the place I lived at in northern Alberta were planks screwed upwards through metal stringers and they were constantly snapping the heads off. If you take two pliers and try bending a screw back and forth it only makes a couple of bends and it snaps. A nail on the other hand will flex back and forth a dozen or more times before it snaps. Since house framing is constantly moving for various reasons I believe that screws are being flexed too much to be reliable over a long period of time. However, there are houses at least 150 years old that are still standing that were nailed and they are still solid.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

w/ cut nails...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Charley I see lots of guys using screws to attach framing these days, including Mike Holmes and other well known contractors on HGTV (maybe only in Canada, I have no way of knowing otherwise). I personally think it is a bad idea and for the following reason. Screw metal doesn't flex much before it gets brittle and snaps. My front steps on the place I lived at in northern Alberta were planks screwed upwards through metal stringers and they were constantly snapping the heads off. If you take two pliers and try bending a screw back and forth it only makes a couple of bends and it snaps. A nail on the other hand will flex back and forth a dozen or more times before it snaps. Since house framing is constantly moving for various reasons I believe that screws are being flexed too much to be reliable over a long period of time. However, there are houses at least 150 years old that are still standing that were nailed and they are still solid.


I'm with you Charles , as screws are not even close to the strength of nails . I would have sworn using screws for framing was against code in Canada , but if Mike does it?


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

If you want to suck a 2X 4 up tight to a wall. That is nail it to the wall with slight bow in wall or the 2X4. My first choice is a long drywall screw and an impact driver. My 2nd choice is a 12d sinker and a 20 oz hammer. The air gun will not suck it up. I usually pull out my framing gun for sheathing. If I am stick building hammer and nail. For a novice framing a 2X4 wall can be risky if your holding the material in one hand and nail gun in the other My biggest problem framing is my belly is in the way when I bend over to drive the nails with a hammer


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

TheCableGuy said:


> I'm with you Charles , as screws are not even close to the strength of nails . I would have sworn using screws for framing was against code in Canada , but if Mike does it?


Make 2 frames out of 2X4. Nail one together. Use 2 1/2" screws on the other. You can easily knock the nailed one apart.


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## Flipsaw (Mar 11, 2016)

Have always used Porter Cable Nail guns and staplers without any problems.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm with you guys. It's gone from holding decking down to serious framing. I don't even like air nails for things I'm trusting my life to.
For sub-flooring I use subfloor adhesive and flooring nails...that sucker ain't _never_ coming up! 
If a client told me they heard squeaking, I'd tell 'em to call pest control.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

paduke said:


> Make 2 frames out of 2X4. Nail one together. Use 2 1/2" screws on the other. You can easily knock the nailed one apart.


In real world conditions I believe the nails would win hands down . Nails are harder to remove as time goes on also . I can't get the ones out of my floor joists to save my life


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Brian,

You already own an impact driver. Get yourself a small box of 2 1/2 or 3" impact rated screws and put two pieces of 2 X 4 scrap one on top of the other. Now, using your impact driver with an impact rated bit, drive one of those screws through the two pieces of 2 X 4. Then keep driving that screw until the head of the screw comes out the bottom of the top 2 X 4. You will be amazed. You have to get the right screws, not the dry wall screws, and you have to use the impact rated bits to drive them. These screws don't break like dry wall screws. That will be very obvious to you after you drive that screw in until the head comes out the bottom of that first 2 X 4 without breaking. With just a couple of these screws driven into framing like you would toe nailing, you will not be able to pull that joint apart any way you try, until the wood splinters and the screws are no longer in the wood.

I'm helping one of my sons do a major remodel of a house. All of the framing work is now done, and we haven't driven a single nail. Every joint has been screwed together using 18 volt DeWalt impact drivers and not one screw of the four 5 lb boxes of screws that we used has broken. We've replaced 20% of the floor joists and sub floor in one of the corner room of the house, moved walls, raised part of the roof, replaced the plumbing and wiring, and not one nail has been driven, but we did remove a lot of nails, probably 30 lbs worth. 

You will become a believer after you drive that first impact rated screw with an impact driver through some heavy timber. These impact drivers don't impact the way an impact drill does. It's a rotational impact, not a hammer force type impact. You can't remove an impact driven screw with a screwdriver, but it will come out easily when you use the impact driver in reverse.


Charley


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

paduke said:


> Make 2 frames out of 2X4. Nail one together. Use 2 1/2" screws on the other. You can easily knock the nailed one apart.


I won't argue with you about which holds better Bill, just which one is most likely to break from flexing. Once it breaks there is zero holding power. That's the issue I have. Not which one holds better but which one is likely to still be holding decades down the road. We haven't been using screws long enough to get feedback on that and I prefer to err on the side of caution. We know that houses that have been nailed together will last 150 years plus.


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I think the top deck boards here in Texas move too much for nails with temperature swings. Give them a year or so and the nails start popping up. You go around and pound nails back in or you pull nails and replace with deck screws. No more problems. Otherwise the nails start popping up again. I have done this many times.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Codes in my neck of the woods require full round head nails for framing, sheathing.
Also requires a bunch of hangers, hurricane straps and the like.

My first framer in the early 80's was a Senco SN4, used a clip head nail... no longer good to code but strong enough to draw in most stuff.
Second was a Bostitch coil framer, don' t recall the model but similar to the one recommended earlier
Now use a Max SN883RH, fairly light but a little bouncy, able to get into tight areas, good nose piece for toe nailing and a nose cap for no mar nailing.
Hitachi has a good rep around here as well.

Use a Bostitch strapshot for metal straps and hangers.

Have used Senco, Bostitch, Milwaukee roofers

Use a Duraspin with extension for screws, deck to drywall.

There are a lot of options for decking now from structural connectors to hidden deck fastening systems that require little more than an impact driver.
Framing nailer in combo with impact driver will handle most structures. Roofer saves a bunch of time to get weathered in.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TomE said:


> My first framer in the early 80's was a Senco SN4, used a clip head nail... no longer good to code but strong enough to draw in most stuff.


ahhh the cannon..
Paslode makes a code full head nail that works well in it..
w/ the 20d (4'') magazine it's force to be reckoned w/...
masonry are not an issue either..
great log cabin trim gun...
still using mine..


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## JohnnyB60 (Jun 15, 2009)

I’ve wanted one for years because I also have tendinitis plus two severed tendons in my right rotator cuff. 

The shoulder went out years ago from using a 28oz Estwing framing hammer every day for years. My doctor told me it was bursitis and gave me pain pills. It was probably 8 to 10 years later before I found out what it really was and then it was too late.

I’m actually not sure that I would be able to handle the weight of a framing nailer now, but would like to give it a try. Maybe I’ll rent one like Stick mentioned to check it out and if it works out, I may buy some property and build a house. :grin:


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

CharleyL said:


> Brian,
> 
> You already own an impact driver. Get yourself a small box of 2 1/2 or 3" impact rated screws and put two pieces of 2 X 4 scrap one on top of the other. Now, using your impact driver with an impact rated bit, drive one of those screws through the two pieces of 2 X 4. Then keep driving that screw until the head of the screw comes out the bottom of the top 2 X 4. You will be amazed. You have to get the right screws, not the dry wall screws, and you have to use the impact rated bits to drive them. These screws don't break like dry wall screws. That will be very obvious to you after you drive that screw in until the head comes out the bottom of that first 2 X 4 without breaking. With just a couple of these screws driven into framing like you would toe nailing, you will not be able to pull that joint apart any way you try, until the wood splinters and the screws are no longer in the wood.
> 
> ...


Charlie, I'll give this a try. Thanks!

Bryan


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> ahhh the cannon..
> Paslode makes a code full head nail that works well in it..
> w/ the 20d (4'') magazine it's force to be reckoned w/...
> masonry are not an issue either..
> ...


Retired mine years ago and yep the old Sencos were made to do the job.

20d spikes..... holy crap, didn't go there with mine but I could see it no problem.

Had to be careful with sheathing too, it would blow the clipheads right through if the pressure was set a tad high


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I use an impact driver and screws whenever I do any kind of framing. Never thought about how long they'll last with all the expansion and twisting. But all the outdoor stuff like decks, the screws work far better than nails. Love that impact driver.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> I use an impact driver and screws whenever I do any kind of framing. Never thought about how long they'll last with all the expansion and twisting. But all the outdoor stuff like decks, the screws work far better than nails. Love that impact driver.


Thanks Tom.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Agree with Tom

HJ


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