# The answer to "how far to insert the bit"



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

After researching the answer to this question I have finally found the definitive answer. Leading up to the answer I have shown how it was decided. It was easier to post it in pdf format but you can of course just scroll to the bottom for the nitty gritty


PLEASE NOTE, THERE IS A DUPLICATE THREAD WITH THE SAME TITLE SO PLEASE ALSO LOOK AT THAT ONE


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Great bit of research, Harry!


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Interesting that the high cost kings (Festool) are so uninterested in taking care of their customer base. One more reason to look elsewhere.

On my Bosch the collet has an open bottom. I haven't measured the depth but I set the shaft bottom to the bottom of the collet fingers. IMO nothing could be gained by setting it any deeper. The only thing that may vary from bit to bit is the torque moment for the portion of the shaft that extends above the collet.


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## dicktill (Mar 27, 2013)

I believe that the companies that recommend bottoming the bit and then pulling it out a little (various amounts as discussed in your pdf) are correct. When you tighten the collet, the collet _must_ move down a little, and it will pull the bit down a little; this will vary depending on the exact geometry of the collet. If you started already bottomed, either the bit will slide axially slightly (possibly scoring the shank or collet), OR the jammed bit will not allow proper tightening: it will essentially jam at the bottom, but the shank won't be held snuggly enough. 

However, if you have enough insertion (as discussed in the pdf) without bottoming first, then that is OK too.

P.S.: Harry thanks for bringing this topic up, and for the pdf collection!


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

I am a newbie but I like to push the bit all the way down then pull out a tad (abt 1/16" -1/8") then tighten the collet. I feel that gives me the max grip on the bit IMHO.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Harry, I agree with Patrick and have been saying that for quite a while. The purpose of the collet is to grip the bit and once the bit is 100% inserted there is nothing to be gained. I don't agree that you need a little extra sticking out the bottom since this implies that as the collet is sucked down the bit would not get sucked down with it. There isn't anything that would keep the bit from going with it so this doesn't seem necessary.

I can see a reason why some manufacturers would say to bottom the bit out then pull it back a little. The farther the bit goes into the collet the less that sticks out and, therefore, the less torque would be applied to the bearing and vibration would also be reduced. (One foot/pound = 12 inch/pounds because the lever arm is 12 times longer.) Less torque and vibration= less wear and tear on the router= less warranty.

I would therefore say that there is more than one right answer here. If you don't need a lot of reach for the job you're doing, then it is probably good practice to insert the bit as far as possible. If you need more reach then I would try to have the bit 100% inserted in the collet. I would only consider inserting 80% of the collet depth in rare cases when I needed just a little bit more reach. 80% should be enough to prevent damaging the collet but you would also only have 80% gripping power on the shaft of the bit.


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## shofestoolusa (Oct 1, 2013)

Harry,

I want to begin by apologizing for the lack of response from us (Festool) to your inquiry. I'm not sure which Festool office or website you may have submitted your inquiry through, but I do not see record of any communications through the Festool USA website. I suspect based on your location, you may have used the Festool Australia website. So, I have no insight on who might have received the correspondence or if they attempted to respond. 

I don't want to make excuses or speculate whether a technical problem might have be the cause of a lack of response which is actually the most common thing in my experience, but instead would like to offer my personal assistance in answering any questions that you might have regarding the topic of proper router bit insertion in our routers. I see that you referenced a supplemental manual that's created by Festool USA in addition to the standard product manual, as well as the owner's manual itself. 

As stated in the Owner's Manual, Festool router bits have a mark on the shank of all bits that indicates the depth at which to insert the bit into the chuck. That mark is generally about 2mm from the bottom of the shank, leaving a small gap when properly inserted. As for other brands of router bits, I suspect it varies to some extent based on the recommendations of the bit manufacturer, not the router manufacturer.

I think that you did a good job of creating a consolidated reference of recommendations from several sources and your research on the topic. It looks like there's a general consensus on the topic amongst router manufacturers.

Again, my apologies for the lack of a response.

Shane Holland
Festool USA


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Well researched and presented, Harry.

I do note however there was little mention in the manuals of the "K" mark on new cutters. I think one manual mentioned that mark.

I would suspect this is due to most of the manuals using old 'boilerplate' from previous manuals and the manufacturers not updating the manuals to allow for newer Euro? regulations.

I have seen this referred to a "line and arrow head", which seems more appropriate. 

Maybe some UK/European members can elaborate there?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Harry, I agree with Patrick and have been saying that for quite a while. The purpose of the collet is to grip the bit and once the bit is 100% inserted there is nothing to be gained. I don't agree that you need a little extra sticking out the bottom since this implies that as the collet is sucked down the bit would not get sucked down with it. There isn't anything that would keep the bit from going with it so this doesn't seem necessary.
> 
> I can see a reason why some manufacturers would say to bottom the bit out then pull it back a little. The farther the bit goes into the collet the less that sticks out and, therefore, the less torque would be applied to the bearing and vibration would also be reduced. (One foot/pound = 12 inch/pounds because the lever arm is 12 times longer.) Less torque and vibration= less wear and tear on the router= less warranty.
> 
> I would therefore say that there is more than one right answer here. If you don't need a lot of reach for the job you're doing, then it is probably good practice to insert the bit as far as possible. If you need more reach then I would try to have the bit 100% inserted in the collet. I would only consider inserting 80% of the collet depth in rare cases when I needed just a little bit more reach. 80% should be enough to prevent damaging the collet but you would also only have 80% gripping power on the shaft of the bit.


You must consider the variables, depth from nut to the bottom, some routers have hollow armature shafts plus the length of bit shanks varies as I described, therefor, inserting any bit into any collet 1" will ensure maximum grip plus maximum depth of cut because every collet checked was within a smidgen of 1"


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> Well researched and presented, Harry.
> 
> I do note however there was little mention in the manuals of the "K" mark on new cutters. I think one manual mentioned that mark.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reminder James, I had intended to mention those marked bits and it would be interesting to know how many of these bits are in the possession of members, I don't have a single one, but in any case isn't an "O" ring the easiest method of optimizing the insertion.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

On my Bosch the collet has an open bottom so you can bottom out the bit and it still has a open space at the bottom for the bit, i still pull up 1/8" their about, but i have a couple pc690's that don't have open bottom so it is a must to pull up 1/8" before tighten bit, other router's are like the 690's , i would say check the depth , and than if not a open bottom i would put a little rubber O ring in their, than thing's will be ok my 2 cents hope all is well harry


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

tvman44 said:


> I am a newbie but I like to push the bit all the way down then pull out a tad (abt 1/16" -1/8") then tighten the collet. I feel that gives me the max grip on the bit IMHO.


\
Bob, my conclusion applies to all bits and all routers, if you take the Makita 3612/C as an example, which has a depth of 70mm about 2.5", a plastic rod 30mm about 1 3/16" is supplied but even with this inserted first it leaves a depth of 40mm about 1.5". Now suppose you insert a bit whose shank is only 25mm, 1" long. I have just taken three shots to illustrate my point, the first one shows the 30mm plastic rod being inserted which is shown in the second shot, pushing the bit all the way in then out a tad isn't going to be much help here, the final shot shows the bit with an "O" ring which is 1" from the end of the bit and the same length as the collet.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

I usually insert the bit into the router until it bottoms out then I hand tighten the nut and pull the bit out about 1/8 inch. It is absolutely true that once the bit shaft passes by the collet you will get no more purchase on the shaft. I continue inserting the bit in order to shorten the distance between the cutting surface and the collet nut to lessen possible run out. Harry is correct in that if you need more depth than inserting the bit shaft only the length of the collet is perfectly acceptable.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm so happy to have your support Marcel, what a nice change it makes to get back to things to do with routing!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Harry I must be one dumb polack, cuz you completely confused me... :lol:

When I put in my bit, I have some that actually have a line for where it should 
line up (I wish all of them were like that, btw) but others, I insert to the base 
of the bit, then bring it out approximately to the same length as the ones with 
the lines on them are. (Which is about the width of my little finger, maybe.)


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> \
> Bob, my conclusion applies to all bits and all routers, if you take the Makita 3612/C as an example, which has a depth of 70mm about 2.5", a plastic rod 30mm about 1 3/16" is supplied but even with this inserted first it leaves a depth of 40mm about 1.5". Now suppose you insert a bit whose shank is only 25mm, 1" long. I have just taken three shots to illustrate my point, the first one shows the 30mm plastic rod being inserted which is shown in the second shot, pushing the bit all the way in then out a tad isn't going to be much help here, the final shot shows the bit with an "O" ring which is 1" from the end of the bit and the same length as the collet.


Wouldn't the addition of a MuscleChuck change those depth dimension?


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> I'm so happy to have your support Marcel, what a nice change it makes to get back to things to do with routing!


Differing opinions do not necessarily make enemies.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Harry I must be one dumb polack, cuz you completely confused me... :lol:
> 
> When I put in my bit, I have some that actually have a line for where it should
> line up (I wish all of them were like that, btw) but others, I insert to the base
> ...


Barb, I think the short version is to mark all the shafts of your bits at 1" and insert them until the mark is just showing. Inserting them more won't hurt anything (as long as they don't bottom out against the base of the router shaft) but isn't absolutely necessary.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Barb, I think the short version is to mark all the shafts of your bits at 1" and insert them until the mark is just showing. Inserting them more won't hurt anything (as long as they don't bottom out against the base of the router shaft) but isn't absolutely necessary.


Charles that won't work. Remember I have small bits. The ones 
I use the most are shorter, and don't even reach all the way down 
I don't think, so I just use the one that has the mark from the 
manufacturer as my guide as to how far into the shaft to have them.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If the shafts aren't at least an inch long then I would insert them just shy of touching the collet nut.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Harry I must be one dumb polack, cuz you completely confused me... :lol:
> 
> When I put in my bit, I have some that actually have a line for where it should
> line up (I wish all of them were like that, btw) but others, I insert to the base
> ...


Barb, how far from the end is the marked line?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marcel M said:


> Wouldn't the addition of a MuscleChuck change those depth dimension?


Not at all, 25mm into the MUSLECHUCK is perfect.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Not at all, 25mm into the MUSLECHUCK is perfect.


What I mean is will the dimensions change from a router with a MuscleChuck to a router without a MuscleChuck?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

No, because the MUSLECHUCK like all chucks has a collet cone of similar length so inserting the bit 25mm is no different to inserting it into any other collet. The bonus with the MUSLECHUCK apart from the convenience of not having to use even one spanner is the extra half inch or so that it extends, so often when a deeper cut is required the bit is "inched out" which can not only damage the collet but can be dangerous.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> No, because the MUSLECHUCK like all chucks has a collet cone of similar length so inserting the bit 25mm is no different to inserting it into any other collet. The bonus with the MUSLECHUCK apart from the convenience of not having to use even one spanner is the extra half inch or so that it extends, so often when a deeper cut is required the bit is "inched out" which can not only damage the collet but can be dangerous.


Thank you for the information Harry.


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## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

Some of my bits have lines that mark MINIMUM insertion. I think perhaps this is what Barb is referring to. 

I would still advise users to insert bits well past these lines!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

phillipdanbury said:


> Some of my bits have lines that mark MINIMUM insertion. I think perhaps this is what Barb is referring to.
> 
> I would still advise users to insert bits well past these lines!


Philip, why would you want to insert the bit further than the end of the collet, no extra grip would be achieved but you would lose depth of cut. I'm interested to know the distance between the end of the shank and the line. would you please oblige. Thank you.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Harry,

In response to the query about the European "K" mark, I went out and measured
some of my cutters.

The majority of the cutters are cheap cutters from Bunnings etc and have no markings.

None of the cutters supplied with various US bowl, letter kits etc had any markings.

None of the branded cutters from Triton, Makita or Onsrud had any markings.

The only cutters to have marking were recent (within past 3 years, I think) purchases of 
CMT and Wealden cutters from Europe.

The distance from the mark to the end of the shank varied from cutter to cutter.

Eg:
Wealden 1" tenon cutter (T2430) with 1/4" shank - 1 5/32"

CMT 3/4" bowl cutter (851.501.11) - no mark.

CMT 5/8" template trim cutter with 1/4" shank - 1 1/4".

CMT 1/4" 90° V groove cutter (815.064.11) with 1/4" shank - 7/8"

CMT 45° chamfer cutter ( 836.950.11) with 1/2" shank - 1 1/4".

CMT Collet extension (796.001.00) - 1".

CMT 10mm straight cutter (811.600.11) - 1 1/8".

There was no consistency of, say, 1" from mark to end of shank.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thank you for that information James, it seems that even the makers of bits haven't got a positive answer however, all those measurements are I think within the 80% of 1" which I concluded was a perfect figure for any bit in any router. For us oldies, not you James, I think that the "O" ring is easier to see. With spanner operated chucks the "O" ring will hold the bit into the correct position whilst fiddling with the spanners using two hands, even with single spanner chucks one hand is needed for the spindle lock and one for the spanner, whereas the ones with a marked line wont!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Barb, how far from the end is the marked line?


No idea, Harry. I haven't gotten a ruler to do an actual measurement. 
But...*taking out my little metal 'rollup' ruler* my little finger is almost 
1/2" wide. (You do the conversion :lol So let me retract my last state-
ment, and say it's about 1/2 the width of my little finger, which would 
be about a 1/4" then, I guess from the cutting base of the bit, but that's 
how I determine where my bit will be when I tighten it. I insert the bit all 
the way to the base of the head of the cutter, then pull it out about 1/2 
the width of my little finger... yup. That's how I do it :lol:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Why not just insert it to the line Barb? I'm still trying to find out the distance from the "open" end of the shank to the mark.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Bits with set marks, all K bits come with the marks

===


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

This is a bit off subject but wouldn't it be helpful for router manufacturers to make a bit depth stop on their routers? I sometimes need to change out identical router bits when the bit that I'm using gets dull. When I swap the bits out I must reset the depth. It would be nice just to pop the new one in and continue on my project without resetting the depth each time I swap out the bits.


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## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm not near my bits at the moment. 

The only place I have seen minimum insertion marks on on a couple Ryobi flute bits. I assume the lines are there so people don't try to cheat too much depth of cut. 

The line marks a minimum. I don't like to do things to a minimum generally. I put it a bit deeper.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Bits with set marks, all K bits come with the marks
> 
> ===


I'm puzzled by the multiple lines Bob, I'm thinking of the bits with one line and an arrow head beneath and I still would like to know how far the line is from the end of the shank, surely someone should be able to tell me!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marcel M said:


> This is a bit off subject but wouldn't it be helpful for router manufacturers to make a bit depth stop on their routers? I sometimes need to change out identical router bits when the bit that I'm using gets dull. When I swap the bits out I must reset the depth. It would be nice just to pop the new one in and continue on my project without resetting the depth each time I swap out the bits.


A very interesting point Marcel.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Why not just insert it to the line Barb? I'm still trying to find out the distance from the "open" end of the shank to the mark.


I have but one, maybe two bits (and those are small bits) with the line, Harry, and those 
that do, I insert to the line as directed (which I estimate at being 1/2 the width of my little 
finger). It's those that don't, is where I use my judgment/estimation on how far to insert 
the bit; I figure if the bit that has the line is approximately 1/2 the width of my little finger, 
that should be a good rule of thumb (no pun intended - maybe) for all my bits. I guess I'm
just not explaining or translating my words correctly. :no: Either that, or you're like Ken 
and read only a portion of what I've written and skim the rest and think you got it when you 
don't :haha: :lol:

As for the "open end of the shank" I have no idea what you're talking about. If you mean 
the base of the cutter, let's put it this way:

My pinky is just about 1/2" wide on my ruler (un-pressed; that is, not flattened tight against 
the ruler.) I insert all my bits all the way to the base of the cutter (where it touches the nut, 
collet, whatever it's called technically) and pull it back out half the width of my pinky, which 
would be just about 1/4". From there, I set my depth of my bit, and make as much sawdust 
as I can get aaaaalllll over me! :haha:

If you're talking about from the FLAT end of the bit (the opposite end of the blade) I'm going
to Beastie today to see if I can get some creating done. (No sawdust to be made *sob*) but
I will find the bit I have and measure for you. The bit I have on me doesn't have the insertion
line.

*later*
Okay Harry my trip to Beastie was cancelled - BUT - I looked at the bit that I was supposed to 
replace or get sharpened - guess what? It has the mark. SO... Here is the bit, with a ruler for
measuring. Might I add here *polishing knuckles* look at the last picture... see where the base
of the bit head is, and where the line is? I'd say I was one helluva estimator on the placement
of that line and length dontcha think?! *polishing knuckles* Thank you very much! :haha:

DAM I'm GOOD!!! :lol: :haha:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> I have but one, maybe two bits (and those are small bits) with the line, Harry, and those
> that do, I insert to the line as directed (which I estimate at being 1/2 the width of my little
> finger). It's those that don't, is where I use my judgment/estimation on how far to insert
> the bit; I figure if the bit that has the line is approximately 1/2 the width of my little finger,
> ...


Thank you Barb. The line is approximately 1" from the open end and this is exactly what my summary in the thread said, "inserting any bit into any router 1" will ensure that the bit will be optimally held and at the same time give maximum depth of cut consistent with the above safety" or words very similar!


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Harry, very interesting treatise - and with less then conclusive results from the various manufacturers.
I am and never will be any kind of an expert on woodworking tools though do have some minimal experience with a router and cutter depth of insertion. As far as insertion depth, I was 'taught' that you insert it all the way, pulling it back just enough that the collet wont impinge on the machined radius at the cutter head (bits over .25 or .50, depending on which router I'm using. Is this insertion depth an inch (25.4mm)? A bit more? A bit less? I really don't care as long as the cutter stays in place, doesn't vibrate and cuts cleanly. Insertion lines - I don't think I have a single one but will do a better check on some of the newer ones in my stash later. So far this rule of thumb far it has worked just fine for me, right or wrong


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Thank you Barb. The line is approximately 1" from the open end and this is exactly what my summary in the thread said, "inserting any bit into any router 1" will ensure that the bit will be optimally held and at the same time give maximum depth of cut consistent with the above safety" or words very similar!


Well, Harry, if we want to get technical, it's 7/8 of an inch. But I never argued how far, 
I just didn't understand your technical terms and long explanation, and as usual, I put 
my two cents worth in on how I insert my routing bits. In all actuality, you and I were 
coming to the same end result, just approaching it from opposite ends and techniques. 
:happy: 

P.S. I'm guessing that little ring is a gauge to follow for how far to set the bit in?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

IC31 said:


> Harry, very interesting treatise - and with less then conclusive results from the various manufacturers.
> I am and never will be any kind of an expert on woodworking tools though do have some minimal experience with a router and cutter depth of insertion. As far as insertion depth, I was 'taught' that you insert it all the way, pulling it back just enough that the collet wont impinge on the machined radius at the cutter head (bits over .25 or .50, depending on which router I'm using. Is this insertion depth an inch (25.4mm)? A bit more? A bit less? I really don't care as long as the cutter stays in place, doesn't vibrate and cuts cleanly. Insertion lines - I don't think I have a single one but will do a better check on some of the newer ones in my stash later. So far this rule of thumb far it has worked just fine for me, right or wrong


There is no law to make you use your tools in any particular way but I did a great deal of research into the insertion of router bits and I stick by my conclusions which as I've said, ensures that ANY bit will be optimally held in ANY router if it is inserted within 80% of 25mm (1").


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Well, Harry, if we want to get technical, it's 7/8 of an inch. But I never argued how far,
> I just didn't understand your technical terms and long explanation, and as usual, I put
> my two cents worth in on how I insert my routing bits. In all actuality, you and I were
> coming to the same end result, just approaching it from opposite ends and techniques.
> ...


Barb., 7/8" is well within the 80% of 1" that I mentioned in the thread based on CARBITOOL who manufacturer router bits and agreed to by HITACHI.
The intention of my thread was to be helpful and give accurate guidance to newcomers who invariably ask the question. 
One final remark, not aimed at you Barb. but at membership generally ACCIDENTS DON'T HAPPEN, THEY ARE CAUSED.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Barb., 7/8" is well within the 80% of 1" that I mentioned in the thread based on CARBITOOL who manufacturer router bits and agreed to by HITACHI.
> The intention of my thread was to be helpful and give accurate guidance to newcomers who invariably ask the question.
> One final remark, not aimed at you Barb. but at membership generally ACCIDENTS DON'T HAPPEN, THEY ARE CAUSED.


Oh Harry I was just teasing you  and your final remark is 100% spot-on. 
I know what your thread was intended for. Are you kidding? I love reading 
your posts. you have more informative and useful posts than I could shake 
a stick at. You really are a great teacher


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Barb., dear Barb., I'm making sure that Marlene doesn't see your posts to me, even at her advanced age there is every possibility that jealously is still lurking in the background!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

ROFL Harry... ok dear :haha: I'll try and curb my posts :haha:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm not complaining Barb., just making sure that Marlene doesn't see them and get the wrong idea!


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

Better watch out Harry!! :stop:

Vintage Silent Stock Footage - Woman slaps man, beats him with rolling pin - YouTube


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I did not see a rolling pin, in Harry's kitchen.....Could that be the reason.....

Off course not.......Just kidding Harry.......


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marcel M said:


> Better watch out Harry!! :stop:
> 
> Vintage Silent Stock Footage - Woman slaps man, beats him with rolling pin - YouTube


I wont be letting Marlene see that either Marcel in spite of her normally being a very gentle lady, we all know what jealous ladies have done over the years with knives/scissors!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

jw2170 said:


> I did not see a rolling pin, in Harry's kitchen.....Could that be the reason.....
> 
> Off course not.......Just kidding Harry.......


Well James, you got me thinking, as you know, I'm a stranger in the kitchen as Marlene is in my shed (except when she brings me out cups of tea!) and to my surprise, there in the third drawer down was not only a rolling pin but also some kind of hammer!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

ROFL you guys have got me in STITCHES!!!! That, Harry Dear, with all those what looks like mid-evil spikes is a meat tenderizer.... I'll leave the rest of my thoughts on that out lmao


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

> some kind of hammer!


rotfl.....


PS: Marlene knew that you would not normally get to the third drawer.......


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Well James, you got me thinking, as you know, I'm a stranger in the kitchen as Marlene is in my shed (except when she brings me out cups of tea!) and to my surprise, there in the third drawer down was not only a rolling pin but also some kind of hammer!


Perhaps Harry you could turn your woodworking skills towards defensive armory such as a Scutum. 

how to make a roman shield(scutum) - YouTube 

Or if you would like to try your hand at hot forming metal here is a video on producing a 15th Century Milanese Barbute. 

Making a Barbute (Re-Edit) - YouTube 

Perhaps you could make a few "How To" tutorials here in the Router Forum while you are at it.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

jw2170 said:


> rotfl.....
> 
> 
> PS: Marlene knew that you would not normally get to the third drawer.......


Perhaps he should peek into the fourth drawer.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Ah, Marlene is the only cannibal in this home, no wonder I didn't know what the hammer is for, I haven't eaten meat since I was a youngster, nothing to do with religion or veganism, I just don't like it! As for arming myself, there is no way that I would knowingly harm the woman that I've loved and cherished for over 60 years and unlike so many men I'm not in the slightest bit embarrassed to admit this.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

+1 Harry on expressing your feelings. Ken is the same way. Good for you. As for the meat tenderizer the younger generation doesn't know what it's for either lol. My mom used it for tenderizing chuck roasts and the like when I was little. I still have hers.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Ah, Marlene is the only cannibal in this home, no wonder I didn't know what the hammer is for, I haven't eaten meat since I was a youngster, nothing to do with religion or veganism, I just don't like it! As for arming myself, there is no way that I would knowingly harm the woman that I've loved and cherished for over 60 years and unlike so many men I'm not in the slightest bit embarrassed to admit this.


Harry, does Marlene really eat human flesh? My armament suggestions are purely defensive armor and used correctly both are designed to protect. I would not suggest that the shield be used offensively toward your spouse.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

FYI Harry

How to Flatten Meat With a Tenderizer : How to Flatten Meat With a Tenderizer - YouTube


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Harry are you saying you don't have a BBQ in the back yard (Out Back )


===


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Harry are you saying you don't have a BBQ in the back yard (Out Back )
> 
> 
> ===


ROFL Bob!!!!!!! :haha:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Harry are you saying you don't have a BBQ in the back yard (Out Back )
> 
> 
> ===


We did until about a year ago Bob and because it was used so rarely we gave it away.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marcel M said:


> Perhaps he should peek into the fourth drawer.


No need to, I do the washing up each evening so I know that the tea towels are in the bottom (4th) draw.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Marcel M said:


> Harry, does Marlene really eat human flesh? My armament suggestions are purely defensive armor and used correctly both are designed to protect. I would not suggest that the shield be used offensively toward your spouse.


Who knows what sort of meat she eats Marcel, I never ask.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Who knows what sort of meat she eats Marcel, I never ask.


Ignorance is bliss. :laugh:


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

That wasn't very subtle Marcel!


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

harrysin said:


> That wasn't very subtle Marcel!


Guilty as charged.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

harrysin said:


> No need to, I do the washing up each evening so I know that the tea towels are in the bottom (4th) draw.


How wrong can one be. There are actually FIVE drawers, tea towels in the fourth one and rolls of cling wrap and Aluminium foil in the fifth bottom one!


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

My, how this thread has taken a turn.... (no pun intended) rofl


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

We can't always be serious can we Barb?


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

I was thinking how I stirred some you-know-what with my comments. lol


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## shuja.shaher (Oct 18, 2014)

this is the best forum. I got the right answer for the nagging Question. IFOUND the right forum


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