# Expert advise on bits



## web4elk (Nov 27, 2005)

I need help with selecting some bits. I am realy confused by all the different bits. What I am looking for is bits that I would use for a plunge router that would be used to cut out a circle, either cutting all the way thru the board or only half way thru a 3/4" thick piece of wood. I am confused by up spiral, down spiral , 2 fluted , 3 fluted. Could you also recommend a good quality brand and who has the best prices.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi web4elk

That's a good question, and you will get many answers 

The one I recommend is the 3/8" SOLID CARBIDE spiral down cut...it will hold the router down, so to speak to the stock and put chips in the slot to help hold the project in place.

But if it's plywoood I recommend the Compression Up/Down Spiral Router Bit
made for 2-sided Formica/Laminates and veneered plywood.


http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...rthtml/pages/bt_solid.html#spiral_down_anchor
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...s/bt_solid_sets.html#super_starter_set_anchor


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

web4elk said:


> I need help with selecting some bits. I am realy confused by all the different bits. What I am looking for is bits that I would use for a plunge router that would be used to cut out a circle, either cutting all the way thru the board or only half way thru a 3/4" thick piece of wood. I am confused by up spiral, down spiral , 2 fluted , 3 fluted. Could you also recommend a good quality brand and who has the best prices.


If I understand your application correctly, you want to use a trammel or template to cut shapes out of 3/4 material with a router. This should only be done in stages (several passes incrementally deeper) to reduce the likelihood of snapping a bit. Spiral bits shear and cut during more of each revolution so they are typically smoother to operate and leave a smoother cut. Up spiral bits bring the chips toward the router and are best for plunging because they tend to feed more like a drill bit (minor correction for Bj is that the Up spiral is the one that keeps the router base more firmly against the workpiece). Down spirals push the chip away so they are better for through cutting where the chips don't build up in the cut line. The advantage of these is that the top surface finish is less prone to chipping. The Compression spiral is a combination of the Up and Down and is ideal for plywood, laminates and melamine because it reduces chipping on both the top and bottom. 1 or 2 flutes is normal. 3-flute bits are designed for feed rates faster than you should attempt by hand.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Charles

 I only know what I read and try   

"Downcut spirals help hold the material in place while using handheld routers. 
Will plunge cut and plane edges. Eliminates chipping at the top of the cut. 
Ideal for soft & hard woods, plywoods & composites,"
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...rthtml/pages/bt_solid.html#spiral_down_anchor
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Spiral bit recommended for use in MDF. Straight bits recommended for natural wood.
See page 100 for Inlay Kit with Solid Carbide Downcut Spiral

http://www.cmtusa.com/store/index1....&parentid=&menuinclude=leftnav_products.ihtml
http://www.cmtusa.com/store/index1....oducts.ihtml&titleimage=titles_routerbits.jpg
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I have found out it's best to keep the chips in the slot when cutting circles/inlay patterns,etc., that's to say let the bit pack the chips in the slot to help hold the parts in place, it's that last part of the circle/pattern that gets nailed with just a little nick...if the center part is free to move, double sided carpet tape works well to hold the center part in place but it can move just a bit and if so the part will be damaged.

"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator



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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Bj,

In your earlier post you said the down spiral "will hold the router down". The quote from MCLS says: "help hold the material in place". These are two wholly different things. The down spiral bit is pushing the chips (and therefore the material) away from the router so in a handheld application this would put force against the workpiece to hold it down. Conversely, it would work against the gravity and pressure of the operator that were trying to hold the router down on the piece.

It is my preference and recommendation to never allow chips to build up in a cut. The resulting heat is damaging to carbide. To prolong the life of a bit you need to shed as much heat as possible through the chips (this is also why 3 flute bits are not ideal for hand feed applications). Rather, I strive to secure all pieces being cut to prevent movement.


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## web4elk (Nov 27, 2005)

Thanks for the info. is MLCS the best bang for your buck, How do MLCS compare to whiteside, or katana bits.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

MLCS, Whiteside, Katana, CMT, they are all good bits. It's just a matter of pricing from different distributors, ie. Rocklers, Woodcraft, Pricecutter.com, etc. Look at similar distributors online to compare pricing. It all depends on, how much, or willing to spend for bits. Sometimes, a real cheap bit works just as well as a higher end one does, pending on application.

I prefer spiral upcut & 2flutes.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi web4elk

" is MLCS the best bang for your buck" = I would say yes

MLCS and Grizzly sell two types of bits, the lower end ones and the higher end ones,, the lower end one are great for the home shop user the Katana are sold by MLCS as the higher end bits...same for Gizzly, the green ones are the home shop ones and the purple ones are the higher ends ones..

WhiteSide only sells one type,the higher end ones that are the same as the higher end one from MLCS and Grizzly...also CMT and Freud only sell one type the higher end ones, but you pay the price for them...

purple ones from Grizzly= SAE4140 steel K10 micro grain carbide at 800 grind, made at ISO 9002, made for super-duty...
green ones from Grizzly = H.T. steel, 600 grind, made at ISO 9002

ISO 9002 = made in a approved factory
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Whiteside Bits ▼
http://woodworkersworld.net/

Grizzly bits
http://grizzly.com/
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web4elk said:


> Thanks for the info. is MLCS the best bang for your buck, How do MLCS compare to whiteside, or katana bits.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Bj,

FYI, the quality standards for ISO 9002 are set by the applicant so it really only ensures consistent quality, not necessarily high quality. Not to say that's a bad thing (Freud is also ISO 9002 certified), just wanted to clarify for those that do not know.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

While we all want to save money buying "cheap" router bits is not a good way to do it. Whiteside is consistantly top rated in comparison testing. Amana, CMT, Freud are also very high quality bits. I would suggest buying a lower priced bit such as a 3/8" roundover and also purchasing a quality bit of the same style. This is a relatively painless way to learn the difference for yourself. Chances are you will not see much difference on the first couple cuts. By cut #10 you should see a difference in cut quality. Here is my best solution to high priced bits: Watch for them to go on sale! Mid priced quality bits like MLCS, Eagle, PC and Bosch are usually a good value. If you are buying a special bit for a one time job odds are you can get away without spending top dollar on the bit. You may find other brands that perform well and we love to hear about them.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Charles

This is just a bit off the track but I don't recall you ever saying what kind of router you have and use and what kind of router table you have and use,,, plus I would love to see a snapshot of your router bits you , must have a killer set working for Freud..

I know if I did I would go home broke each week 

One more question, off the top of your head what would it cost to have one of ever bit Freud makes ?
I also would like to get setup to be tester for the Freud router bits  LOL
cheap SOB that I am..  can't hurt to ask... 











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Charles M said:


> Bj,
> 
> FYI, the quality standards for ISO 9002 are set by the applicant so it really only ensures consistent quality, not necessarily high quality. Not to say that's a bad thing (Freud is also ISO 9002 certified), just wanted to clarify for those that do not know.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Bj,

I own an old Ryobi 1/4" plunge router that lives with my folks who use it frequently remodeling houses and I have two FT2000E plunge routers, one with a Router Raizer in an OLD Freud router table. I probably have a hundred bits at home. The funny thing is, I very rarely use a router at home because I have access to some really sweet equipment and all the cutters, bits and blades I want at work. We currently have a 4' X 12' Biesse CNC router, a 14" sliding panel saw, Jet cabinet saw, tons of contractor and hybrid saws, miter saws, sliding miter saws, vertical panel saw, shaper, router tables, etc. To tell the truth, I can get burned out on woodworking after so much time at work so I spend my free time hanging out with my family, making beer, working on old cars and piddling on an occasional home improvement project.

To own one of every Freud bit (around 900 bits) the List Price would probably be about the same as buying a new Lexus.


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## web4elk (Nov 27, 2005)

Thanks for all the help from all of you. This realy cleared things up.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Charles M said:


> To own one of every Freud bit (around 900 bits) the List Price would probably be about the same as buying a new Lexus.


I wanna work for Freud.      
(but you can keep the Lexus). LOL


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## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

I would like a job at Freud as well!!!


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