# Any one using Pin-It or simular pin router attachment



## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

Hi,

Is anyone doing any pin routing? If so is the arm made by some company or homemade, and how well does it work? I've seen it in books and it looks like fun but I don't know of anyone that really uses this method.

Ed


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## sunnyjim (Sep 24, 2004)

I bought one of these and found it hard to use it keeps moving around and no way to make it solid.
Would not recommend it.


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

sunnyjim said:


> I bought one of these and found it hard to use it keeps moving around and no way to make it solid.
> Would not recommend it.


 I did decide to try one, and you know the one I got did not work well either. I tried making 3 pass each one a little deeper then the previous around a pattern I had made. I tried making a full depth cut, a little better result from the pin arm but the cut was way to heavy. Having every pass a bit different then the one before or having to make such a heavy cut made it useless for what I wanted.

I returned mine to the catalog place I got it from and got my money back, even on the used 3/8" spiral bit that came with the set. They would not comment on how many get returned......

I like the idea, I like how it looks like it will work but it will have to be rock solid to work right. So it is either spend a lot more or do my own.

I guess I should have answered my own post to let other know what I found out, sorry.

Ed


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ed, I bought a custom built pin router from a friend. He built this unit himself and used it while a toolmaker. The only bad thing is its not easily height adjustable for accurate plunging. Im working on a solution to that.
I also found a plan on the web for a home built version. The file is too large for posting (309K) and cant be reduced without losing detail. I would be happy to forward it to anybody who is interested.

Mike


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## ttait (Sep 29, 2004)

I looked at these for a while, but really you're just following a template on the opposite side of the workpiece with a pin the size of the bit instead of a template guide on the same side of the workpiece with a guide 'slightly' larger than the bit. Plus, you are adding whatever movement exists (no matter how small) between the base, stand, and arm as a cumulative error when following your template. You still have to make an accurate template, even if it is duplicating an original piece. And if your original has roundover edges, your chances of accuracy decrease even more.
I decided it was just as easy and 'possibly' more accurate just to make an MDF template pattern in the first place and use template guides. And I know that the pattern/bit relationship will not change as I am moving around the edges.
Just my .02, your milage may vary.

Tony Tait


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

aniceone2hold said:


> Ed, I bought a custom built pin router from a friend. He built this unit himself and used it while a toolmaker. The only bad thing is its not easily height adjustable for accurate plunging. Im working on a solution to that.
> I also found a plan on the web for a home built version. The file is too large for posting (309K) and cant be reduced without losing detail. I would be happy to forward it to anybody who is interested.
> 
> Mike


 I would be interested in the plans, do you have a url I can get it from?

How about a picture of the one you have? And how well does it work other then the stated issue?

Ed


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

ttait said:


> I looked at these for a while, but really you're just following a template on the opposite side of the workpiece with a pin the size of the bit instead of a template guide on the same side of the workpiece with a guide 'slightly' larger than the bit. Plus, you are adding whatever movement exists (no matter how small) between the base, stand, and arm as a cumulative error when following your template. You still have to make an accurate template, even if it is duplicating an original piece. And if your original has roundover edges, your chances of accuracy decrease even more.
> I decided it was just as easy and 'possibly' more accurate just to make an MDF template pattern in the first place and use template guides. And I know that the pattern/bit relationship will not change as I am moving around the edges.
> Just my .02, your milage may vary.
> 
> Tony Tait


 Thanks for your comments, my first try at buying one showed me the need for it to be made solid and strong. I still like the idea but.........

Ed


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Tony, when I was introduced to the pin router by the guy who built it he had other ideas of how to use it. Freehand sculpting by moving the wood as opposed to the bit was the way he used it. Points to consider: The pin router stand I have is rock solid. You see the actual cut like portable routing or using a template, some people feel they have more control moving the wood. Equiping the table with a fence allows regular table mounted operations with the look down perspective. The pin router feels more natural to machinists who are used to milling operations. I know its a case of apples and oranges. I guess its what you feel most comfortable with.

My biggest selling point was this: I paid $40 for the pin router which included the Rockwell router, wrenches and 20 assorted bits.

Ed, I will take a pic of my pin router and get it posted asap. Outside of no method for accurate plunging it works great. I am asking Mark for a way to post the oversized image of the homemade pin router plan I have.

Mike


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

Mike,

Are you talking pin routing or overhead? I'm interested either way. Here is another post to the past when I was asking about overhead routing:
http://www.routerforums.com/showthread.php?t=122

Ed


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Here is the plan for the homemade pin router. 










Many thanks Mark!

Mike


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## reible (Sep 10, 2004)

Check this out, I think it is the same thing......
http://www.routerforums.com/showpost.php?p=3574&postcount=7

Ed


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## sred (Jan 21, 2005)

LeeValley.com sells a Pin Router Arm that clamps or bolts to your table. It's made of cast aluminum and has a 12" clearance. I hadn't thought of using this for freehand work. I used to work as an Engineer and we had CNC tracing machine that could mill a shape from a stylus. These seem pretty similar excpet it's manually controlled ... and in wood


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I know this is a old post But if any one is looking to add a pin router setup to the router table they now have MLCS sells one at a great price.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/daisypin.html

I have one and it works great  , I did add a item or two to it like a 2 1/2" tall base block so I could do 4" deep boxes and made some brass rods so I could setup it up quick and easy on the router table and they are also used as guide pins.

It's quick install 4 holes in the back side of the router table, bolt it down and it's ready to go to work, there is a small learning curve you will need to get down but once you get that down you can punch out all the items you want.

It's takes a long bit to do the deep bowls and boxes but you can find them also at a good price below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-2-SH-3-B...emZ130090397913QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-4-SH-3-B...emZ130089790334QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem

http://stores.ebay.com/Super-Carbide-Tools

If you would like to see the Pin Router setup and the brass pins just ask and I will post some snapshots of them.

It works the same way as a plunge router setup but I find it a bit safer to use and you don't need to control the plunge router because the table will do all the work for you (keep it flat and true to the stock) and the guide pins in the over arm. 
It's safe because the bit is below and is out of the way so to speak,it's in the stock when you you raise the bit up or drop it on the stock and use the lock pin/guide pin to keep it in place and it's in the template.
The router Raizer works great for this type of job,most of the new routers have one built in now days, that can be used from the top of the router table. 

The template can be just a 1/4" thick hardboard or birch plywood that's nailed in to the new part (on the edge ) or some double sided carpet tape that's works well also.

It's best to have a Vac.pickup on the bottom side of the router base plate to pull the chips out of the way you will have many when making a 3" deep box/candy bowl,etc. 

Bj


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

That's interesting... never heard of it til now! 

I'm wondering how the Heart would be cut out using the MKSC ad pattern (inside cut)?
Would you drop the wood & pattern onto the router bit? Would be hard to do without messing it up wouldn't it? Don't see how it could be done satisfactorly (sp)...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Well it's a easy setup, put the template on the blank stock,remove the fence,set the board in the place drop and lock the Pin in the template fire up the router and raise the bit into the blank move it around under the pin guide then move the bit up some more and do the same thing, you can cut it out all the way or just stop short for a bowl or box. 
You can also just drop the blank on the bit and then pull the lock/guide pin down and do the same thing. 
But it works best to have a router razier if you are doing DEEP cuts like 3" to 4" deep.
The template can be a two part type that's to say a male and female if you want to cut out heart lets say, the guide pin will just stay in the slot in the templates and the double sided carpet tape will hold the part(s) in place so when you lift the stock up you will have a heart just like the pattern (template) you can also make it bigger or smaller but putting in a new size guide pin ( the kit comes with 4ea. )

Long Trim Bit ▼
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-pc-1-2-SH-3-B...emZ130096128448QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem

Bj 



Joe Lyddon said:


> That's interesting... never heard of it til now!
> 
> I'm wondering how the Heart would be cut out using the MKSC ad pattern (inside cut)?
> Would you drop the wood & pattern onto the router bit? Would be hard to do without messing it up wouldn't it? Don't see how it could be done satisfactorly (sp)...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The biggest disadvantage with pin routing is not being able to see the bit and the cut as it's being made. For this reason beginning woodworkers should avoid this method until they have learned the proper feed rate for different types of wood and the sounds of a router happily cutting material. When you understand these things you will be able to move into this more advanced method without burning your wood or bit. Remember that you are cutting a mirror image on the other side of the wood so your pattern must be reversed / upside down. With practice, people who use this method can get amazing results.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

For those with the Router Magic book, on page 19 is described a Router Duplicator..
A trimmer router sits in the bottom arm, and a guide pin is in the top arm.. The whole thing floats on a cushion of air so you can move it around.. You can use it in much the same way that the CNC router is used, only manually..
Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to duplicate things that way..


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike 

I just took a look at page 19, man that's some kind of jig, that looks like it would do the job but not a easy one to make.

The Duplicator I use is the one below,it will do it all,cravings, 3D,flat copy,etc.
They can be found on eBay for 40.oo to 80.oo bucks most come with a small 1/4 HP Craftsman router but I removed it and now use a roto zip motor with a V.S. control so I don't burn the bits up.

Bj 


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AxlMyk said:


> For those with the Router Magic book, on page 19 is described a Router Duplicator..
> A trimmer router sits in the bottom arm, and a guide pin is in the top arm.. The whole thing floats on a cushion of air so you can move it around.. You can use it in much the same way that the CNC router is used, only manually..
> Seems like it would be a whole lot easier to duplicate things that way..


CARVING LINER ROUTER BIT
http://woodworkersworld.net/carving_liner_router_bit_bits.shtml

CARVING Ball Nose ROUTER BIT
http://www.precisebits.com/products...xtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtFromSearch=fromSearch

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CRAFTSMAN ROUTER RECREATOR CARVER CARVING PANTOGRAPH ▼

http://cgi.ebay.com/CRAFTSMAN-ROUTE...ryZ20781QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

JUST A NOTE**** This one has RUST on the main shaft and MUST be removed, it must be clean and smooth ,(it may need to be replace) it's the main key to this machine, all the parts must side free on the main (3/4" ) rod, one other small note ,,,the seller is a bit high on the shipping charge,besure to check that out b/4 you bid.  (this unit should ship for about 20 bucks UPS ,7 to 10 days)
One more small note....4 brackets (Wheel Locks) are missing (in the pictures) on the side on the main unit,it's not to big of deal, you can make your own, I will try and find them in the manual and I post a snapshot of them.

------------------
The pictures below are from the MANUAL and it can be downloaded from the Net with luck the seller may have one. 
If you buy this one and you don't get the manaul with it and you can't find it on the NET let me know and I will send it to you (it's a 17.5mb PDF file) 42 pages.


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## Routhound (Jun 29, 2007)

Frankly I am surprised at this posting. I have developed the perfect Pin Routing assembly for the Guitar shop. I have about 6 of these made if anyone is interested. I have about $75 in parts and sold 2 units on ebay for $250 each. My sons are trying to put together a video to market the device. There is no mass production at this point and every day I find something to change in the design. You can see it at guitar parts central on the com.


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## campchair (Jun 12, 2009)

Mike said:


> Here is the plan for the homemade pin router.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mike,

Can you post it again? I got the famous RedX. 
Campchair


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Bill,
Mike might not be able to find it by now. This thread is over 2 yrs. old.


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## campchair (Jun 12, 2009)

I understand - It is a case of desperation....(bad pun - I make gun cases) and not having 1,000 bucks for a manufactured pin router and a job here in the shop that probably can't be done any other way! Thanks if you can find it, but I understand if you can't. Bill


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Bill, have you seen this Daisy Pin Router from MLCS?

Daisy Pin Router


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

..or the pin router from Veritas?

Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Gardening Tools, Hardware

The MLCS on is an 8" arm for ~$50, the Veritas 12" for about $150.


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## Routhound (Jun 29, 2007)

I made a pin router for making guitars. You can get one from my sons at their web site at: guitarpartscentral.com I just purchased a Shopbot for the boys so their technology level has gone up a notch. I had about 6 units that they were trying to sell. The Pin routers are safe enough if you know what you are doing. If not then keep the kids clear and dawn a large coat.


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## campchair (Jun 12, 2009)

Yep, I just ordered one ($44.85, shipping free) . I have to hammer together a good router table for my old Craftsman router and mount it. When I do, I'll report on how good it is. Bill


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## kwevin ae80 (Aug 16, 2013)

Hi mike I am Kevin from Trinidad I am interested in the home built pin router plan please send link.


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