# Dust Collection Hazard



## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

The CNC Router we purchase did not come with a functional dust skirt as promised due to the aggregate being attached. We found that when cutting dense waterproof material the debris in the woodshop was extreme.

In efforts to avoid this issue we took off the aggregate to put the dust skirt on but we still are not getting the suction or results we would like.

Is excess wood debris in the shop a real health hazard when working? Should our employees be wearing respirators until we get this issue resolved? Is this something the manufacturer should have disclosed to us when buying the equipment?


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

mlepisto2 said:


> The CNC Router we purchase did not come with a functional dust skirt as promised due to the aggregate being attached. We found that when cutting dense waterproof material the debris in the woodshop was extreme.
> 
> In efforts to avoid this issue we took off the aggregate to put the dust skirt on but we still are not getting the suction or results we would like.
> 
> Is excess wood debris in the shop a real health hazard when working? Should our employees be wearing respirators until we get this issue resolved? Is this something the manufacturer should have disclosed to us when buying the equipment?


Hi Mallory. Welcome to our little corner of the 'net.

Wood dust is a known carcinogen, so I would say a definite yes, a dust mask or some other type of approved respiratory protection should be used.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mlepisto2 said:


> The CNC Router we purchase did not come with a functional dust skirt as promised due to the aggregate being attached. We found that when cutting dense waterproof material the debris in the woodshop was extreme.
> 
> In efforts to avoid this issue we took off the aggregate to put the dust skirt on but we still are not getting the suction or results we would like.
> 
> Is excess wood debris in the shop a real health hazard when working? Should our employees be wearing respirators until we get this issue resolved? Is this something the manufacturer should have disclosed to us when buying the equipment?


I agree to what Brian says...
what are you using for a dust collector and what size porting???


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

We are using the dust collector that came with the machine. We ended up extending a piece of HVAC duct to reach just above the spoil board.

The vacuum attached is a Delta 1HP Cloth Bagged Shop Dust Collector, but we still aren't getting good suction. We have a brand new durable plastic spiral hose attached to the ceiling on a rod that allows the tubing to move freely and easily with the CNC head.


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

*Stock Dust Skirt*

The dust skirt in place is what came stock with the machine. We ended up putting an extension of HVAC piping from the vacuum tube toward the spoil board to get a closer pull from the vacuum but it still isn't enough. 

We have a Delta 1HP Cloth Bagged Shop Dust Collector attached with brand new metal spiral enforced plastic hose attached to ceiling that ghosts the head over top the machine to move freely without obstruction.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mlepisto2 said:


> The dust skirt in place is what came stock with the machine. We ended up putting an extension of HVAC piping from the vacuum tube toward the spoil board to get a closer pull from the vacuum but it still isn't enough.
> 
> We have a Delta 1HP Cloth Bagged Shop Dust Collector attached with brand new metal spiral enforced plastic hose attached to ceiling that ghosts the head over top the machine to move freely without obstruction.


okay...
so how many feet of pipe are you using...
WTB you haven't the air flow you need to remove the saw dust...
have you considered a larger unit like the jet 1100???


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

The section of HVAC is 2 1/2 feet long extended above spindle unit and connected to the vacuum hose. We lowered the piping to reach further than the bottom of the dust skirt just about to the height of the bottom of the bristles on the dust skirt. 

We purchased this vacuum because it was what was recommended by the manufacturer. Perhaps an upgrade would be well worth it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mlepisto2 said:


> The section of HVAC is 2 1/2 feet long extended above spindle unit and connected to the vacuum hose. We lowered the piping to reach further than the bottom of the dust skirt just about to the height of the bottom of the bristles on the dust skirt.
> 
> We purchased this vacuum because it was what was recommended by the manufacturer. Perhaps an upgrade would be well worth it.


that jet is very quiet too...
the Powermatic is even better...
as long as you don't restrict the airflow they will collect dust...

http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/dc-...hp-1ph-115-230v-2-micron-canister-kit/708659K

POWERMATIC ® -


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Excellent! Thanks for the link! 

=)


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

I'd like to see some pictures of the setup. If the manufacturer recommend it, then it should work.


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Here are a few pictures. The head is resting on a wooden block because otherwise the head bangs down onto the spoil board when machine and air compressor are turned off. The HVAC extends an extra few inches below the block to get closer to the table when machine is cutting.

Hope this helps, thanks for your time!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> I'd like to see some pictures of the setup. If the manufacturer recommend it, then it should work.


I had that collector dedicated to my re-saw bandsaw w/ a wye and 2ea 4" pick ups...
it sure left a lot to desired...


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

Stick, I believe you. I would think that two 4" pickups would be really pushing it for a 1 hp dust collector.


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

Thankyou for the pictures Mallory. Your DC is a Delta AP400, and rated at 650 CFM. I can see a couple things that you can try to increase airflow. First, any sharp bends in the hose or piping is a airflow killer, and a place to clog. I can see several nasty bends in the dust hose, one going into the DC, one where the hose is hanging from the rafter, and another where the hose goes into the CNC machine. Next is your flex pipe, the less the better, hard pipe in what you can and use large radius elbows where elbows are needed, I also think that the ducting could be shortened up ALOT. After all that the best you can do is check to make sure that your impeller isn't wrapped up in stringy shavings, and that the bag is clean. Turn the bag inside out and vac it off works well. An air filtration unit can also lessen the amount of dust in the air. A dust respirator is always a good idea, expecting a dust collector to get everything is usually pretty unrealistic, but it should keep your shop cleanup time down, and less dust settling on everything. Have you asked the manufacturer if they have pictures of that same setup that is working for others ?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Stick, I believe you. I would think that two 4" pickups would be really pushing it for a 1 hp dust collector.


I stand corrected...
looked up that model and the one I had 1.5HP...
specs said 1200CFM for the 1.5 horse...
I don't believe that on a good day...

the DC ports on the BS were 4".. one upper, one lower...


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

Stick, was it the Delta 50-760 ? If so, thats the one that I have, and I like it alot. I added an onboard separator to it, which has a Thien style baffle in it. I generally just use one 4", moving it from machine to machine. I think that if a person wants a ducted system with blast gates and all, I wouldn't go lower then 2 hp. And I don't mean an over rated CFM Harbor Frieght 2 hp dust collector.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Stick, was it the Delta 50-760 ? If so, thats the one that I have, and I like it a lot. I added an on-board separator to it, which has a Thien style baffle in it. I generally just use one 4". I move it from machine to machine. I think that if a person wants a ducted system with blast gates and all, I wouldn't go lower then 2 hp. And I don't mean an over rated CFM Harbor Freight 2 hp dust collector.


it looked just like the 400....
there's a Jet 1100 on the re-saw saw now... works great..
this is what's there for the ducted shop... they were part of a bankruptcy sale...
instead of the drums there's wheeled carts...

http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XXK070323&CatId={E2D6BE6D-A9B1-4F95-A716-44521A11896C}
http://www.oneida-air.com/PDF/10-hp-direct-drive-quick-quote-2014-web.pdf


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

Stick. The 50-760 is fairly similar and is 1 1/2 hp. Thats quite the industrial dust collection system that you posted too. 10 hp. Let me throw this at you, lets say that he ups his dust collector in HP for his CNC, how much airflow will pass through a 4" line before having to go with a larger diameter line, and still run the DC efficiently with the least restraint on the motor ? This is what I just found on the internet. A 4” hose will carry about 350 cfm, while a 5” hose will handle around 550 cfm. Which I'm guessing would be at fairly short distances, 10 ft to 15 ft of smooth wall ducting ?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> Stick. The 50-760 is fairly similar and is 1 1/2 hp. Thats quite the industrial dust collection system that you posted too. 10 hp. Let me throw this at you, lets say that he ups his dust collector in HP for his CNC, how much airflow will pass through a 4" line before having to go with larger diameter line, and still run the DC efficiently with the least restraint on the motor ?


350/400 CFM....
from what he showed us he's crippling his system...
add a 1/2 to 3/4 HP...
jump to a 6" trunk in hard pipe and a pair of 4" pickups at the machine...
use as little flex as possible and go w/ sweeps instead of 90's...


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Thank you both for your feedback! I am going to discuss this with my father. 

Unfortunately, on the manufacturer's website, they do not provide any pictures with the dust skirt in place. 

However, after doing just a little bit of research, I was able to find pictures online of other owners (same model and series) that have a similar hook up. 

The reason we have, ultimately, come up with what we have is to allow plenty of movement for the head to move freely to all corners without the vacuum being in the way or limited to ghosting the head. Of course we would prefer to have less hose, therefore, more suction, but this would then limit the movement of the vacuum. 

Considering the suggestions made, by looking at others people's set up, they seem to be worse off than we are. We couldn't expect for every particle to be picked up by the vacuum, however, you would hope that the manufacturer would be more helpful in guiding their customers with advice on how to properly connect the dust skirt to avoid having to wear respirators. Or, at least, disclose that the use of a respirator is highly recommended when cutting MDF, with or without a dust skirt.

Thanks again! More soon!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

run a horizontal hard pipe sloped toward the DC... 
use hard pipe from the horizontal to the DC..
use two 90º elbows set to 45º each to form sweeps instead of true 90 for any turns...
flex from the hard pipe w/ swept end to the CNC...
leave enough slack in the flex to allow plenty of movement for the head to move freely...


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

Mallory, I understand the cutterhead movement issue. Maybe you could call a local HVAC guy and see what he would recommend. It's too bad that your not in my area, I'd come take a closer look at it all. Pictures are good, but it's not like actually being there. Keep us posted.


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Thanks Charlie and Stick!

Any experience with Dust Shoes? We were going to inquire about one being compatible with our CNC.


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

mlepisto2 said:


> Any experience with Dust Shoes?


 No, I sure don't.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mlepisto2 said:


> Thanks Charlie and Stick!
> 
> Any experience with Dust Shoes? We were going to inquire about one being compatible with our CNC.


nope...


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

I was thinking about this whole deal again this afternoon, and I don't know much about the mechanic of a CNC, let alone one of that size. My thought is would it be possible to put non swivel casters on the dust collector so it just slides to side. Then somehow attach it to the CNC drive so the DC follows the CNC back and forth ? I don't know how sturdy the drive is, if it would prematurely wear the drive out, and if it would affect the quality of the cuts. If that option is out, then it would be nice if the CNC company could figure out a drive just for the DC to follow the CNC. If it could be done that would sure eliminate ALOT of dust pipe and hose. Understand what I'm sayin ?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Woodchuck1957 said:


> I was thinking about this whole deal again this afternoon, and I don't know much about the mechanic of a CNC, let alone one of that size. My thought is would it be possible to put non swivel casters on the dust collector so it just slides to side. Then somehow attach it to the CNC drive so the DC follows the CNC back and forth ? I don't know how sturdy the drive is, if it would prematurely wear the drive out, and if it would affect the quality of the cuts. If that option is out, then it would be nice if the CNC company could figure out a drive just for the DC to follow the CNC. If it could be done that would sure eliminate ALOT of dust pipe and hose. Understand what I'm sayin ?


could build a hinged cover for it and hook the DC to the hood set up as a cross flow...


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

No one said anything about your bag. If that is the factory 5 micron bag, than you might as well not be running dust collection at all.

Blowing 5 micron particles back into the shop is the worst thing you could do.

I suggest updating your filters IMMEDIATELY to something like the Wynn Environmental 0.5 micron filters.

Not only will it remove the harmful, smaller particles, but it will also increase overall flow by approximately 20%.

I would also suggest a Thein Cyclone or similar added stage to keep the majority of the dust out of the new filter.

Here is a good article to read about DUST COLLECTION. 3HP and 6" lines are the recommended minimum.


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

Hi there!

I hope everyone had a good weekend. Sorry for not getting back to all of your responses promptly. It was a busy end to the week and I was away all weekend.

The dust shoe is something we are still considering, but yes, it has many more bristles which are attached to the head magnetically to remove easily.

I would like my father to review all of these posts to take all of the suggestions into consideration first before we make any decisions on purchasing the dust shoe. More soon!!!


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## mlepisto2 (Sep 24, 2014)

We have a Shop Sabre 4896.

My father purchased a new dust collector yesterday. Once I have it here in the shop I will share a couple of pics so you can see the upgrade =))


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## zootalaws (May 5, 2012)

I mostly cut sheet goods -ply and mdf.

Due to my location in the steamy jungle of Borneo, I don't have the luxury of being able to source 4inch pipe, let alone purpose-built multi-horsepower dust collectors, so I bought a commercial vacuum cleaner and mounted the hose almost touching the end mill. It gets nearly everything, just requiring a light once-over with the vac once all the parts are lifted to get the rest. I pipe it to a cyclone-type dust catcher and remarkably little makes its way into the vac itself. I run the exhaust straight out into the jungle and don't run a filter. The daily rainstorm takes care of any dust.

Primitive, not very Eco-friendly, but it's what was available without spending 1000s of dollars on what is a hobby.

I wear a disposable dust mask.


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## winerackmaker (Aug 3, 2010)

As far as I'm concerned, the mfg is not responsible for letting you know the hazards of cutting certain materials. Here the onus is on you.

FWIW, I have an Oneida 5HP Dust Gorilla for my small shop with 5" ducts to the CNC, Table saw and bandsaw. It's a fantastic machine. I'd recommend it to anyone. They have smaller models too.

I also have a fan to the outside just below the ceiling in the area where the CNC is located. It will create enough airflow so that the CNC area (and the other areas for that matter) stay almost perfectly clean. The downside: it blows all my air-conditioned air outside.


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