# Projects accomplished without a CNC Router



## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

Router users be aware that a great number of projects that were considered only to be accomplished with a CNC router is a big Myth. With the aid of the template guides and a little knowledge as to how they are used there are a number of projects you can achieve without the expense of a CNC router. Recently I was speaking to a good friend of mine who said there was no need for the template guides as he had purchased a CNC Router. 

I have been working on a number of projects where I was producing some joints when producing my diningroom chairs recently and it was easier to produce a simple jig to complete the joint than set up a program on the CNC.

Some of the carving with the router I have produced with one simple template.

Kitchen cabinet doors I have designed over the years yes could be achieved with the CNC router Quicker and better I am not sure and I welcome those who have the machine to have a try at producing such a project.

The reason I have put this forward is to encourage others to at least try to use the template guides and give the method a go.

Tom


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom 

I guess no one is going to ask so I will ,,,,,,how did you route the windows, I sure would like to see the template(s) you used..

Thanks

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template tom said:


> Router users be aware that a great number of projects that were considered only to be accomplished with a CNC router is a big Myth. With the aid of the template guides and a little knowledge as to how they are used there are a number of projects you can achieve without the expense of a CNC router. Recently I was speaking to a good friend of mine who said there was no need for the template guides as he had purchased a CNC Router.
> 
> I have been working on a number of projects where I was producing some joints when producing my diningroom chairs recently and it was easier to produce a simple jig to complete the joint than set up a program on the CNC.
> 
> ...


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## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Tom

Some very handsome work, and very eye appealing. 

I do agree with you, many tools with time tested methods are sometimes faster than a large power tool. The set up on power tools for one piece does sometimes take way too long.

It is always good to take the path of least resistance.

Nice looking pieces, and we can learn from your experience.


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## template tom (Sep 18, 2004)

*Projects accomplished without a CNC router*

From my previous posting.

*"Kitchen cabinet doors I have designed over the years yes could be achieved with the CNC router. Quicker and better I am not sure and I welcome those who have the machine to have a try at producing such a project".

"The reason I have put this forward is to encourage others to at least try to use the template guides and give the method a go".*

From Bob's posting

*"I guess no one is going to ask so I will ,,,,,,how did you route the windows, I sure would like to see the template(s) you used"..*

Bob
I was hoping that those who possess the CNC router would at least make an attempt at the project or maybe admit that it is not possible with the CNC process. Or maybe those who have embraced the Template Guide Method to give it a try before I posted further comments.

I have just completed a small DVD of such a project and I am willing to forward it to anyone who is prepared to cover the cost of posting and a small charge for the material costs. say $5.00 plus postage depending where you live. It will show clearly not only the templates but the method of producing the door. Just one variety of design of course.

I am concentrating on producing DVDs of the various processes of completing a number of the projects I have produced. Since my last woodshow where I presented a visual demonstration on film rather than a practical demo has encouraged me to produce the DVDs after the response to the type of presentation.

Since the woodshow I have also conducted a router workshop for a number of participants and I have also been invited to show more at a local woodworking club next week.

I cannot stress more that *"you will get more from your router" *if you take time to find out how to use the template guides.

Tom


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

*New to the forum*

I am new to the forums, today in fact. I have been reading several threads, including many in regards to the used of templates and guides. I agree with Tom (and others) in that they are quite valuable, if you know how to use them.

They cannot, however, replace all of the capabiliteis of a CNC router. It is highly likely that a skilled person can make most 2D designs with templates, but 3D designs....I have yet to see that reproduced by anybody but artists.

I also own a CNC router, not a Carvewright, although the basic idea is the same. (I used to own a Carvewright too!). Those windows can be made on the CNC, no doubt about it.


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## GateKeeper (Dec 2, 2008)

Hi Scott: What brand CNC do you have and where did you buy it? I recently made my own, but I am having a lot of trouble with the software and uploading the G-Code. I am still trying to find a real good tutorial of the computer end of it. I also have the carvewright machine and its pretty easy to operate. The capacity of my homebuilt is only 5HX12X12 . thanks Michael.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Scott. That's one nice looking CNC machine. Looks like a 4x4? Maybe you could post some pictures of your work?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"but 3D designs....I have yet to see that reproduced by anybody but artists."

Not quite true Scott, the design that I routed on this jewellery box, whilst fairly simple is indeed 3D, the cuts vary in width as well as depth. I take little credit for it as I used a system known down under as the 3D Router carver, where the cut-outs in the templates vary in width and the "V" cutter sits in a cone which rises and falls with the width of the cut-out.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Scott and welcome to the forum. All of this looks rather intriguing to me. Maybe one day when I get the shop back in order that would be fun to learn about.


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

It is an EZ Router brand, made in Texas, USA. I had to buy one as I would not be able to make one. It is a 4x4. I wish I could help with the computer tutorial. I use CorelDraw for most of the design, but also V carve pro. I use V carve pro for toolpath generation, and Mach 3 as the controller. All of it came with the system. I will post a few pics tomorrow. Thanks for your interest!

I got rid of the Carvewright because of problems. I had to send it back twice for repairs and literally nine other problems that I fixed myself (with their help). It was down an awful lot.

Harry.....on the 3D.....what you have carved, while technically 3D, is considered 2D or 2.5D. When I say 3D, I mean totally rounded edges. You would use a ball nose end mill. I'll post a pic of what I mean tomorrow. I like the V carved work, especially since it was done with a hand router.

I love this stuff.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

How much is a stock 48" x 48"

I hate the web sites that do not post any cost amounts at all. They want you to call and what is the point if I just want to know if I am in the realm of even coming close to paying for it.

These guys need to get into the new millennium and get some online sales up and running. They are missing out on a lot of impulse buyers. me for one.

Okay I found one add that said 9400 starting for a 4' x 8' thats about all the info I can get off the web. So it seems it may be a 1000 or 2000 less than a shopbot for comparable sizes depending on options.


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

That is strange because EZ Router used to post their prices right on the site, and even allow you to pick the options (with pricing itemized).

A basic version of a 4x4, with V carve, computer, dust collection is likely $8-$9K. But who knows now that the pricing is removed! I also checked on Shopbot when buying mine....the prices were pretty much the same, perhaps hundreds in separation. The Ez-router comes assembled, welded. That was a big plus for me, especially given they were similar in price. I didn't want to assemble the shopbot. It just took 4 people to get it in place.


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

Some examples, as promised....


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

A few more....


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## Aparelo (Mar 1, 2009)

*EZ brand...*

I am interested in this EZ brand...do you have a link to their webpage? I was about to order the carvewrigth, but I am glad I read your post, it seems like a bad investment...

Thanks!


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

Their site is www.ez-router.com. They used to have pricing right on there, but it looks to have changed. A base 4x4 model will probably run $8-$9k, if pricing is similar to a few months ago.

There are many other sources of information on the Carvewright, including their own forum. Check around on the web. Although, it sounds like several people on this forum like theirs, so who knows? I know several upgrades have been made since I had mine. Maybe they are better now.


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## supershingler (Nov 8, 2008)

dont over look the carvewright

some of the first owners had some problems but i have had mine since july of 08 and have had really good luck.

there is a learning curve which i think you will find with any cnc. 

i do this more as a hobby as anything although i have made enough with the CW to pay for itself

it is not the machine for everyone but if your willing to invest some time to learn its capabilities then it is worth a shot

my only suggestion is to purchase a new machine and not a refab. or used for your first machine. i would consider a used machine now that i know how this thing ticks.

i kind of think like this. . . anyone can buy and airplane but only a few can really learn to make it fly.

i love my carvewright and think for the money it is worth every penny.

kendall


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## Aparelo (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks, that is a good feedback about CW, 9K is out of my league now, but CW is less than 2K, I think I will give it a try based on your comments…maybe it will help that I am a Computer systems engineer, I will now what to do with software and hardware, I guess…


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## DougO (Jan 4, 2006)

Very nice looking work Scott.


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## atgcarving (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks!


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## Arcticfox46 (Jul 19, 2007)

Tom,

Yeah - your are totally right. CNC is NOT the all in all. It is simply another machine tool in the shop.

In fact - I have seen some extremely impressive done with a highly skilled artist and a handful of dremel type tools.

I have seen some extremely impressive raised letters designed by and hand made on a scroll saw and hand sanded - extremely thin and very beautiful.

There is not much at all that a CNC machine can do that cannot be done via another non-cnc method.

With all that being said - I am a CNC guy. I CNC metal all day every day at work. I also own a CNC router at home. I do CAM and solid modeling. In fact I have been doing all this stuff for 30 years. I am also into the non-cnc stuff. 

I love CNC routers and machines. I also love work done without cnc.

Your stuff if very impressive - something to be admired for sure.

I do not ever say - this can only be done on CNC - that would be wrong.

I will say - CNC is fascinating and fun. Yes - for sure it is.

I will also say - the doors get opened, to opportunities whereas the level of skill to do certain things would take years to aquire. With CNC - the time frame is dramatically reduced. 

I can do some very complex 3D carved models with great results in a matter of weeks or less, whereas, the skill to learn how to do 3D carving of the same complexity would take years, if even possible. I am not really so artistic, and my carving skills are non existent.

Soo - there is something that CNC brings to the table. Something that cannot be done thru non-CNC methods. CNC- allows the unskilled, to produce a work that previously required a high level of skill.

While there is a learning curve with CNC - it is certainly less than the learning curve to do very complex 3D carving in a non CNC way.

Truly I admire the skill - as well as the CNC. However, the skilled hand - needs a special level of admiration, that I just cannot give to the CNC.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

CNC also allows many of the same thing to be made over and over virtually exactly the same at great speeds. So if the Craftsman takes a great time to make an original, a CNC allows this craftsmanship to be given to many people instead of the few that a craftsman can make and give himself.


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## blurrycustoms (Feb 23, 2009)

> However, the skilled hand - needs a special level of admiration, that I just cannot give to the CNC.


As much as I admire the technological leaps that CNC provides, I have to agree with this statement.


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## Check twice! (Feb 11, 2008)

An interesting tool the CNC router. 

My son and I built one and we do use it,,, as a tool,,,, the same as my hands, feet, eyes or my brain which has to be classed as a tool. I think we overlook the fact that there are many ways to design and build a project whether we use our hands and a chisel, or our brains and design a program to use on a CNC router,,,, both require an artistic creation from within ourselves.

There is beauty in all projects but I think with an open mind and some admiration for the method others choose to use we will come to the conclusion that all projects have a beauty and unique feature of it 's own. 

Some still choose to build with hand tools, power tools or electronic controlled tools. My Grandfather who was a cabibet maker would be amased at the tools both hand and powered that is now available. I wonder if he would say "my hand method is better than that new fang dangled contraption" or would he embrase the new method of creating,,,, for it's value as a tool.

My son has more advantages with the CNC because of his computer skills, so I do set ups and runs but he does the programming. People that write and do there own projects have to be admired for the time it takes to learn the graphics program. In the reverse someone who hand builds a project has to bhe admired for there abilities.

I believe it is another tool and like all tools comes with a down side and some skillful learning is needed. 

Scott some very fine work.


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## woodman12 (Feb 12, 2012)

*cnc use*

Using the cnc for projects actually takes longer as you have to be right on with the gcode production or your work can be ruined.
Its not a short cut but once ots done then its a snap for the second or third.
Buts its a challenge and satisfying when you get it right.
I have been using a cnc since 2007


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