# Is this dangerous?



## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Hi, I've been doing this for quite some time, and I think it could be dangerous if my router bit breaks or something like that, check the pictures:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I suggest you use feather boards and a push stick. You need vertical and horizontal, the vertical holds your work down to the table and the horizontal holds it against the fence. Ideally you should use a horizontal on each side of the bit. You can make them very easy out of wood and make them long enough to clamp on to the table. 

It is not so much the bit breaking as it is the wood shattering and you having your fingers close to the bit holding it against the fence and pushing towards the blade. Please be safe.

Herb


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Ok, I'll design something like that, however it's MDF, it's much more stable than wood.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

True, Pablo, but it is a good habit to do so when you do wood it is automatic, just part of the job so to speak. When I look at the pictures, your fingers are dangerously close to the bit..

Herb


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Like Herb said, I think the main danger is not the bit breaking. If the workpiece is suddenly no longer there, where will your fingers go? It could shatter, or the bit could catch and overcome the friction between your fingers and the workpiece. If that happens it can be gone in a flash. It's more likely if you are climb-cutting of course, but bad habits get us in trouble when you add them up.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of my concerns would be if your hand slipped while you were pushing, especially as you would just be finishing the cut. MDF is quite slippery. Your hands are all ready a little too close for my comfort level.

Pablo have a look at this recent thread and I'm sure you'll find a pushing device that will get the job done and keep your hands safe. http://www.routerforums.com/shop-safety/82033-push-blocks-push-sticks.html


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> Hi, I've been doing this for quite some time, and I think it could be dangerous if my router bit breaks or something like that, check the pictures:


pretty much...
don't gamble, use a gripper...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

If *you* didn't think it was dangerous, you wouldn't be asking the question. Use a push block or gripper, but get your hands away from the bit.


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## Knot2square (Jul 11, 2015)

I bought a small parts holder from one of the woodworking stores just for that purpose. Some on this forum will say that they are little pricey for what you get, and I might agree, but what is a little piece of mind and your well being worth? Rockler and MLCS both have nice ones. I bought mine while they were on sale and had free shipping. Never regretted the purchase.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Yikes! Scared the crap out of me. Working like that is an invitation to disaster. Get those fingers protected. You only get one set.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Like everyone else said use feather boards. Another thing that may be possible depending on the bit you are using would be to place the wide part of the board against the fence instead of the way you are feeding. That way your hand would be less likely to hit the bit.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I was taught the *6" rule* when I first started woodworking. *"Never, under any circumstances, put your body parts within 6" of a moving cutter or blade".* I have followed this rule since I was 12 years old and just starting to work with power tools. I'm 73 now.

This rule has been so ingrained into my working habits that I initially found it hard to use a Grripper, because it's necessary to hold the handle of the Grripper while using it and the handle is only about 2" above the blade or bit. I have managed to over come this by modifying the rule by adding to it. So this rule in my head now reads *"Never, under any circumstances, put your body parts within 6" of a moving cutter or blade, except when holding the handle of a tool that is designed to protect body parts from the cutter". *

Grrippers not only protect your hand from the cutter, but they are made from a plastic that emits a very pungent odor when it is being cut. This smell spreads quickly, so it isn't long before you realize that "more than wood is being cut" even if you don't realize it otherwise. I now own three model 200 Grrippers, two for the table saw, and one for the router table. The one for the router table always has the narrow side removed so it will clear the router bit when used against the fence. Yes, in the 12 years that I have owned the Grrippers I have on two occasions managed to cut into them. Both instances involved the table saw and both were just very slight nicks in the friction rubber on the Grripper's base that did not affect the effectiveness or safety level, but this is how I discovered the "pungent odor feature". If you cut into a Grripper, you will definitely know it.

*So by my rule what you are doing is way past very dangerous*. Buy yourself a Grripper and/or use feather boards and push sticks so you don't need to put your hands that close to the bit. 

Charley


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Knot2square said:


> I bought a small parts holder from one of the woodworking stores just for that purpose. Some on this forum will say that they are little pricey for what you get, and I might agree, but what is a little piece of mind and your well being worth? Rockler and MLCS both have nice ones. I bought mine while they were on sale and had free shipping. Never regretted the purchase.


What price do/can you put on your fingers? Make them, buy them, steal them if you have to... but use them. Two of the things you never want to loose; you eyesight and your opposable thumbs. Protect your eyesight, your hands, your lungs and your hearing...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

CharleyL said:


> I was taught the *6" rule* when I first started woodworking. *"Never, under any circumstances, put your body parts within 6" of a moving cutter or blade".* I have followed this rule since I was 12 years old and just starting to work with power tools. I'm 73 now.
> 
> This rule has been so ingrained into my working habits that I initially found it hard to use a Grripper, because it's necessary to hold the handle of the Grripper while using it and the handle is only about 2" above the blade or bit. I have managed to over come this by modifying the rule by adding to it. So this rule in my head now reads *"Never, under any circumstances, put your body parts within 6" of a moving cutter or blade, except when holding the handle of a tool that is designed to protect body parts from the cutter". *
> 
> ...


Don't be afraid to cut into the Gripper parts. They are in some cases designed to be sacrificial. Gripper sells replacement parts for a reason. I have seen Grippers reps demonstrate this when cutting very narrow pieces. 

Bottom line...no fingers in the way of the "whirley things"!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

*grripper for me too.*


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Pablo,

See my signature below. Not only do you need to turn your brain on you need to use it and I think you did use it when you questioned whether it was safe or not, but then I think there must have been a power shortage.

One more thing to think about is how much will the doctor and hospital emergence room charge you to sew the end of what is left of your fingers cloesd and how long will it take before you can use them again.

USE SOMETHING TO KEEP YOUR FINGERS OUT OF HARMS WAY!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Folks; keep in mind that Pablo is in _Argentina_.
At the best of times a lot of our toys, up here, aren't available down there...and at the moment these are not the best of times (down there).
I'd be amazed if the Grripper was sold there...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Just one problem with the Grriper suggestion guys and that is that Pablo lives in Argentina. #1 it probably isn't available there, and #2 it would probably be too expensive. I'm pretty sure his best option is home made.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Great pictures by the way! Eliminate the shadows and they are ready for publication.


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Well you convinced me, the first 100 times I had to do that cut I actually used a homemade gripper, the same I use for my TS, but since it is a bit uncomfortable (for the router table) I stopped using it.

But yeah, I understand that if *anything *happens, my fingers will go right into the bit socket, bloodbath .

Danin, thanks for the kind words for a poor argentinian!, however, we are going through a very exciting positive change here, a new government is going to get things in the right direction, and for example, yesterday they announced that the importations are no longer limited like before, now we also can buy dollars, something that we couldn't before, pathetic, I know.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Artemix said:


> Well you convinced me, the first 100 times I had to do that cut I actually used a homemade gripper, the same I use for my TS, but since it is a bit uncomfortable (for the router table) I stopped using it.
> 
> But yeah, I understand that if *anything *happens, my fingers will go right into the bit socket, bloodbath .
> 
> Danin, thanks for the kind words for a poor argentinian!, however, *we are going through a very exciting positive change here, a new government is going to get things in the right direction*, and for example, yesterday they announced that the importations are no longer limited like before, now we also can buy dollars, something that we couldn't before, pathetic, I know.


Pablo
I'm a poor Canadian and our government(s) provincial and federal are taxing us to death - if you have anything extra can you send it my way :help:

Just kidding - but glad you are taking safety very seriously
Vince


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"...yesterday they announced that the importations are no longer limited like before, now we also can buy dollars, something that we couldn't before, pathetic, I know."





 !!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Folks; keep in mind that Pablo is in _Argentina_.
> At the best of times a lot of our toys, up here, aren't available down there...and at the moment these are not the best of times (down there).
> I'd be amazed if the Grripper was sold there...


that's why the PDF's...


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Pablo, all my push blocks and push sticks are made from scraps. Until I got a mag switch feather board all of those were made from scraps. As I said recently push blocks and sticks are a necessity but the don't need to be expensive. I don't buy anything I can make. Money comes to hard.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Pablo...maybe this happens to you also...i find my fingers get dry the more wood i handle...this makes for slippery surfaces...

So its possible that nothing might bappen to the wood or bit but your fingers would be the cause...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keep _well_ away from the whirly things!!!!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CANwdwCEe0s/VnLnmgshlXI/AAAAAAAAqYY/7xIaorfkioo/s1600/Surprise.gif


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

or hang on...


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## rpludwig (Nov 22, 2011)

"Is this dangerous?"

simply, YES!


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Stick that' cat vide is funny I don't care who you are.


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Stick posting videos of cats? 

This is new


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> or hang on...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHnuo17dsBQ


Lmao , I hate cats :lol:


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## mikelley (Aug 2, 2012)

Use multiple passes. It takes more time, but requires less effort when feeding the stock.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> Stick posting videos of cats?
> 
> This is new


I can post recipes instead...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Artemix said:


> Hi, I've been doing this for quite some time, and I think it could be dangerous if my router bit breaks or something like that, check the pictures:


Pablo, I know you are feeling beat up about now, like "Oops, I shouldn't have asked that question,and posted those pictures" , Please don't take the comments personally, these guys and myself are just concerned about a fellow woodworker getting hurt badly on a power tool.
From your previous posts, you are eager to learn the right way to do things and your question was a good one. A lot of others will benefit from you asking it, as this is a common mistake, and it is better to ask than to get hurt.
So hang in there fella, and keep wood working and asking questions when in doubt.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Pablo, I know you are feeling beat up about now, like "Oops, I shouldn't have asked that question,and posted those pictures" , Please don't take the comments personally, these guys and myself are just concerned about a fellow woodworker getting hurt badly on a power tool.
> From your previous posts, you are eager to learn the right way to do things and your question was a good one. A lot of others will benefit from you asking it, as this is a common mistake, and it is better to ask than to get hurt.
> So hang in there fella, and keep wood working and asking questions when in doubt.
> 
> Herb


exactly..


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I agree with Herb and Stick, but you had a feeling that it wasn't safe to do what you were doing, so you asked us. 

Whenever I get that same feeling I stop and rethink what needs to be done and how to do it safe. If I can't think of a safe way to do it I'll ask another woodworker how do do it safely. You did that by posting here. Bravo!! And you now have many ways to do it much safer. The more woodworking that you do, the better you will be at coming up with these safe ways on your own. Until you always know how to do every cut in woodworking safely on your own, don't hesitate to ask for help when that gut feeling says something isn't safe and you can't think of a better, safer way do do something. We'll be waiting, ready to give you a bunch of advice, and our advice is totally free.

Charley


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I can post recipes instead...


Of cats?? They skin easily.

HJ


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

honesttjohn said:


> Of cats?? They skin easily.
> 
> HJ


yes and yes...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

Herb Stoops said:


> Pablo, I know you are feeling beat up about now, like "Oops, I shouldn't have asked that question,and posted those pictures" , Please don't take the comments personally, these guys and myself are just concerned about a fellow woodworker getting hurt badly on a power tool.
> From your previous posts, you are eager to learn the right way to do things and your question was a good one. A lot of others will benefit from you asking it, as this is a common mistake, and it is better to ask than to get hurt.
> So hang in there fella, and keep wood working and asking questions when in doubt.
> 
> Herb


Not at all, I take them as well intentioned advice!, how can I get offended when people is offering their help.


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

Artemix said:


> But yeah, I understand that if *anything *happens, my fingers will go right into the bit socket, bloodbath .


 Then you know you were pushing your luck. Now you have had it confirmed and will no longer push your luck, yes??
It scared me just looking at the pictures.:surprise: 
But I learned a VERY handy thing, in the suggestion to put the WIDE part of the wood against the fence...little things mean a lot...



Artemix said:


> ... however, we are going through a very exciting positive change here, a new government is going to get things in the right direction, and for example, yesterday they announced that the importations are no longer limited like before, now we also can buy dollars, something that we couldn't before...


How WONDERFUL! I love that you consider the changes to be 'exciting.' When the citizens think something encouraging, that is far better testimonial than the Media telling us things are exciting when they are not.
I wish your country the best of success!
Enjoy your woodworking, but protect your fingers from now on!!!
~M


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

But I learned a VERY handy thing, in the suggestion to put the WIDE part of the wood against the fence...little things mean a lot...

I don't understand this statement.............. Do you mean move the fence back so that the board is fed like on a tablesaw? NOt a good idea.

That works on the table saw but it is called climb cutting on a router table,you will be feeding the material the same way as the rotation of the bit and have it trapped between the fence and the bit and it will become a projectile. Maybe I understand wrong what is being said.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> But I learned a VERY handy thing, in the suggestion to put the WIDE part of the wood against the fence...little things mean a lot...
> 
> I don't understand this statement.............. Do you mean move the fence back so that the board is fed like on a tablesaw? NOt a good idea.
> 
> ...


I think the part about feeding left to right was left out...
still very dangerous just the same...
even more so IMO..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Plus 1 what Stick said.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good points, but I thought the 'wide part' comment was referring to standing the board on edge against the fence (?)...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Good points, but I thought the 'wide part' comment was referring to standing the board on edge against the fence (?)...


That is a different horse of a different color. I was thinking about this while laying awake this morning and wondering if that was what was meant. That would work OK, safe enough.

I just never think of routing a rabbit that way.

Carry on, men.

Herb


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## dcrusoe (Apr 28, 2014)

i could post my pictures of how I learned to use a push block on my router table if you'd like!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

dcrusoe said:


> i could post my pictures of how I learned to use a push block on my router table if you'd like!


please do...


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

I thought the board was laying down, wide side on the fence side. 
Standing it on end is beyond my skill set atm...
~M


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No, not on end, on edge. Same but different...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Moz said:


> I thought the board was laying down, wide side on the fence side.
> Standing it on end is beyond my skill set atm...
> ~M


That is the way I understood too at first, until I pondered about it for awhile. The flat side against the fence and the edge down. That works too. But it is a little harder for me to get the depth of the rabbit to the face of the board as accurate. Where as flat side down like shown in the pictures ,the bit can be set precisely to the depth of rabbit .
But that does show that there is not just one way to make the cut.
Herb


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## dcrusoe (Apr 28, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> please do...



Here you go! I always use a push block or other tool that keeps my fingers safe 

http://imgur.com/a/XJTxt

And yes it still to this day (3 years later) has some numbness at the tip of my finger. And yes I did in fact have a great deal of fun showing my poor hurt MIDDLE finger to some folks!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

And that is why we say use a push block. It happens so fast that all you get to see is the results.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

dcrusoe said:


> Here you go! I always use a push block or other tool that keeps my fingers safe
> 
> Learning how to you a push block on a router table - Album on Imgur
> 
> And yes it still to this day (3 years later) has some numbness at the tip of my finger. And yes I did in fact have a great deal of fun showing my poor hurt MIDDLE finger to some folks!


that is a wake up call...
I hope Pablo is listening...


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## Artemix (Aug 10, 2014)

I'm not listening, I'm watching, way more terrifying


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Artemix said:


> I'm not listening, I'm watching, way more terrifying


good...
go build you a gripper and get back to work..


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## dcrusoe (Apr 28, 2014)

Artemix said:


> I'm not listening, I'm watching, way more terrifying


Hey it only hurt a little.... I got hurt way worse in Nam LOL


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