# Melamine resisting Bits



## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

Hi All

With a lot of pattern routing done on melamine boards, I find that the flush trim bits we use go blunt very fast, and also small grooves appear on the cutting edges. Any solutions or ideas?

Thank you


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Andries

As you've discovered melamine can be extremely aggressive. Because the substrate (particle board/chipboard) can and does contain a percentage of recycled materials it means that there's sometime glass, grit or even screws in there so solid carbide tooling isn't going to last either. If you are serious I'd suggest looking at replaceable tip carbide cutters:









_Above: TC-RT cutters from Wealden Tool. The turn-over tips are relatively inexpensive_

Initially these are quite expesive, however, the tips have either 2 or 4 edges (depending on size) and the carbide grade is considerably harder than that used on brazed tip tooling. The other advantage is that they never need to be sent out for resharpening. Mine come from Wealden Tool in the UK, although Trend, Titman and KWO (asee Versofix in their catalogue) also have selections within their ranges. In the USA Amana supply some TC-RT cutters, although my impression is that these haven't penetrated the USA non-CNC market to the same extent that they have in Europe

Regards

Phil


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## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks Phil, this is a BIG help, I`ve never seen these type of bits before, I will follow the provided links!!


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

*Mr*

There are 4 things you can do
1 - the bits with removable blanks are made to be sharpened ( usually at the makers facility) expensive - see how much spare blanks are so you can keep the machine in use during turnaround
2 - price and obtain a cheaper use and toss version with a bearing at the end to maintain your distance - carbide is not necessarily harder to be better, it is about matching the correct grade to the application - these look like 3rd shift units from a CNC machine.
3 - Try a different speed range or shifting the bit in the collet +/- 1/16" to see if you can get 3 stages of wear pattern
4 - if all else fails - give a call to Whiteside Machine Company, 4506 Shook Road, Claremont, NC 28610 Toll Free (800)225-3982 or Local (828)459-2141

good luck - Baker


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

DIMAR also makes them. Available in Canada, and the US (US?)...
DIMAR Canada Ltd.


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## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

Thanks Richard, The 3rd tip I already do, will keep the others in mind!


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

rwbaker said:


> 1 - the bits with removable blanks are made to be sharpened ( usually at the makers facility) expensive - see how much spare blanks are so you can keep the machine in use during turnaround


Sorry to say Richard, but the ones I showed are *not* resharpenable. I pay between £1.20 ($1.90) and £3 (US $3.20) a tip depending on size which makes them extremely cheap to use for template and trimming work especially against solid carbide or brazed carbide. When I ran a CNC I used to use similar non-bearing cutters for particle board - the feeds are slower than for solid carbide or PCD, but it doesn't ruin a cutter when you hit an inclusion



rwbaker said:


> these look like 3rd shift units from a CNC machine.


Really? Tools used on MDF (and mine are - a lot) get pretty mucky, pretty quickly. Photo taken at the end of a long hard day's routing before they were stripped and cleaned

Regards

Phil


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

The other option is to use a special table saw blade made for cutting melamine and then use a router bit to get that glue line finish.

I think Torkcraft sells one.

I bought this router bit for Double sided laminate boards.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Andries, Welcome to the Router Forums! We are very glad to have you as a fellow member! Above herein, you have several suggestions. Even before reading all of the replies, I thought of Hilton "Cagenuts" because he is a personal friend who is very knowledgeable, open-minded and *in your area*. That is one of about a thousand reasons that this forum is so valuable. There are almost always people in an area wherever you are that can make recommendations based on their experience and knowledge of local availability of products!
Good luck! Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia, USA


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## Jaccok (Nov 14, 2011)

You can get router bits that are made from ploycrystalline diamond that would last about 10 times as long as carbide bits. Try National Diamond Labs. 800/898-8665, ask for Gill. They are in Los Angeles, CA.


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## TJWoodworker (Jan 2, 2013)

I haven't seen this type of bit before. Thanks all for the input. I got to go check these out for myself. Seems like it might be more cost effective in the long run. Good luck Andries!


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Jaccok said:


> You can get router bits that are made from polycrystalline diamond that would last about 10 times as long as carbide bits


Hi Jack

Apart from the astronomical price and the restricted range of shank sizes (here it used to be mainly large diameter, 16 or 20mm, for use in CNC routers), well there is at least one other major flaw with them; they are pretty useless on melamine (and I'm assuming that the OP means what is referred to as "melamine" in the USA, what we call MFC here - or melamine-faced chipboard - and that he's profile routing the edges including the core) because most chipboard production wherever you are in the world contains a percentage of recycled materials quite apart from naturally occuring calcite inclusions (or grit). Hit anything like that in MFC and your cutter is toast - the PCD tip will chip because it is relatively brittle. They are great on MDF, though. Finding that out a few years back cost me quite a lot of money - and a major argument with the supplier! Hopefully modern ones are better

Edit: I went and had a dig around and found this trim bit from Amana at $81 - OK if you're just trimming a decorative laminate (Formica), but not really big enough for template work. Still expensive, though. Couldn't find any off the shelf template trim biys, though

Andries, if you want to enquire about PCD I'd have thought that deBeers in SA were the natural starting point - apart from natural diamonds they are a major player in the artificial diamond market, too

Regards

Phil


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

FYI Phil,
We call OSB (oriented strand board) chip board. We call the product you are describing particle board. It is the only product I know of over here that has a melamine coating. Saw blades seem to stand up to it better than router bits.


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## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

I must admit that this discussion are coming close to "confusion" for me, I had thought that someone would just reply with a manufacturer and product serial number and that be the end of it. I appreciate all the input and will investigate every suggestion made, starting with the last post from Hilton as the Torkcraft brand is readily available in S.A.


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## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

As an afterthought, using a table saw blade will not be much help in a pattern routing project,maybe only where you want to join boards.


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

What about one of those Triton spindle Sanders? Use a template to get close as dammit then use your router for the final trim.

In fact I don't see why you couldn't fit a top mounted bearing to that sander to make it even more versatile.


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## Andries (Feb 3, 2013)

Hilton I don`t know if this is the correct or even fastest procedure, but we cut out most of the waste (about 3mm from the trim line) with a jigsaw and then use a flush trim bit and a template to the finishing cut. Results are perfect, it`s just that the bits don`t last.


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## jpaskell (Mar 18, 2017)

Quick question on this subject, how would one cut a dado into a melamine table top to accept a T-track for an outfield table? Would chipping be a problem? Would it be best to consider using a table saw?
Thanks all.
Jim


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

router bit in 2 passes width wise...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You might be able to cut the groove without chipping if you use a down spiral bit. A straight bit might cause more chipping than a saw blade if you use a melamine blade on the saw. Melamine blades have a negative face angle on the teeth and usually have a grind that minimizes chipping. 

My preference would still be a table saw, especially since it's faster (mostly because of the set up time for a router) and saw blades last longer and are cheaper in the long run. As far as the chipping goes keep in mind it's a router table and a quick wipe along the edges of the cut with some white paint hides the chipping which should be fairly minor in any method.


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## jpaskell (Mar 18, 2017)

*Melamine cutting*



Stick486 said:


> router bit in 2 passes width wise...


Thanks Stick,
I tend to want to use a router as I can see somewhat better what's happening as I cut. A router jig will be next in my list. I thought scoring the cut line might help prevent chipping using a 4" circular saw.
As this is my first time cutting melimine I'm just a little apprehensive but planing to jump into it and learn as I go.
Learned a lot from you already.
Thanks again,
Jim


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## jpaskell (Mar 18, 2017)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> You might be able to cut the groove without chipping if you use a down spiral bit. A straight bit might cause more chipping than a saw blade if you use a melamine blade on the saw. Melamine blades have a negative face angle on the teeth and usually have a grind that minimizes chipping.
> 
> My preference would still be a table saw, especially since it's faster (mostly because of the set up time for a router) and saw blades last longer and are cheaper in the long run. As far as the chipping goes keep in mind it's a router table and a quick wipe along the edges of the cut with some white paint hides the chipping which should be fairly minor in any method.


Thanks Chuck for the reply,
Cutting a 3 foot piece of melimine in a DeWalt table saw with a small table scares me. I am considering using a 4" circular saw to skim the surface and finish the cut with that saw or a router.
As I told Stick, I'm going to jump in a hope to learn.
Thanks again.
Jim


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

jpaskell said:


> Quick question on this subject, how would one cut a dado into a melamine table top to accept a T-track for an outfield table? Would chipping be a problem? Would it be best to consider using a table saw?
> Thanks all.
> Jim


*a bit like this bit...*
the diameter og the bit needs to be less than than the width if the groove/mortise..

place a fence exactly where you want the edge of your track to be..
lay the track up against it...
lay a 2nd fence up against the track w/ enough spacing to insert a playing card...
remove track...
cut the grove w/ the bit's bearing against one fence and go back the other direction against the second fence..

clamp on straight edges sure carry their weight in the shop, and then some...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I agree that the small table on those saws is an issue. It's why many of us recommend adding an outfeed table onto the saw, even if it just hinges on the back edge of the saw and has legs on hinges so you can fold it and and the legs out of the way when you have to store it. The outfeed table extends the length of piece you can run through safely. There have been threads on that in the past.

Stick's comment about clamping a straight edge on your work for a guide will get lots of jobs done and allows you to take a tool to to a job that is too big for a stationary tool. The photo below is a good example of this. It's basically a poor man's track saw and it's what I use to break full sheets of panel board down to sizes I can handle. A jig like it would cut the track for you too but some chipping might still be possible.

The problem with the chipping in melamine happens when the cutting angle of the tool wants to lift the material up and away. In a saw blade that means the tip of the tooth enters first and leaves first. With melamine blades the teeth have a negative rake angle so that the tips of the teeth enter and leave the work last. This causes a downward force on the melamine coating which greatly reduces chipping. The router bit Stick pictured has a down shear cutting action so it does the same thing. If you can find a negative rake angle on a 7 1/4" circ saw blade then using it and the guide would give you good results as long as you keep the circ saw running true down the guide jig.


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## jpaskell (Mar 18, 2017)

CherryVille Chuck and Stick,

Thanks so much for the above posts. They have been very helpful and the system you two have laid out is what I will do with my project. 
Thanks again for taking time to help out with my issue. I really appreciate it.
Best regards,
Jim


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