# The most elusive router bit!



## brian_hammerhead (Jul 12, 2020)

Hello,

This is my first post on the forum, and my wife and I are new to routing. The first project is cabinet doors for the kitchen.

We found a door pattern that we really like, but are having a tough time finding the correct router bit for the rails.

Pattern is Sonora by CraftMaid









Closeup. One piece of wood.









Profile of rails (measured with digital calipers)









Tried the Freud, Whiteside and a few other websites, but couldn't find a 3/4" long straight, angled cut. Starting to wonder if this is a mix-and-match router bit stack.

Any experts out there that can help us solve this mystery?

Thanks in advance!

- Brad


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Brian and welcome. Are you sure that it is part of the main rails and not an added molding? I think that it could be cut with a small bevel profile raised panel bit, about the 2 1/2" diameter size. It could also be cut on edge on a table saw but would be a rougher finish. To cut that profile with a router would require a few bits I think. There looks like a small flat at the top of the bevel and there is also the small round over on the top edge. Cabinet shops usually use a shaper or moulder to cut profiles like that and often the profiles are custom made for them.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello N/A and welcome to the forums...
We're happy you found us...

that appears to be a built up rail w/ an add on piece of molding...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

We all seem to agree, no doubts, its an added moulding. it was attached after the doors were assembled. I also think the radius on the inside of the frame was added after assembly, the cutter does not do that small round, if it did then there would have to be a mason miter where the styles and rails join and that is far too much trouble too get a small internal round like that, so the door was made square via the groove and tenon method , then the radius was done and then the moulding was added last.

I like that small door, BTW a very neat colour. N


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

neville9999 said:


> We all seem to agree, no doubts, its an added moulding. it was attached after the doors were assembled. I also think the radius on the inside of the frame was added after assembly, the cutter does not do that small round, if it did then there would have to be a mason miter where the styles and rails join and that is far too much trouble too get a small internal round like that, so the door was made square via the groove and tenon method , then the radius was done and then the moulding was added last.
> 
> I like that small door, BTW a very neat colour. N


the inside connection of the rail and stile's RO appear to be jack mitered...

.


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## Chris Itin (Oct 15, 2019)

I remodeled a home in Houston that had been originally built in 1937. I stripped the kitchen down to studs and started over. These cabinets were the ones I put back in, and I can assure you that is not an added molding. Look carefully at the grain of the rails in the first photo and you can see that it carries all the way through those rails. 

A large production cabinet maker like CraftMaid would make these on a shaper with custom cutters. I'm sure it was not done with a router, although you could likely have someone make you a custom bit...for a price.

Those doors are what convinced me to buy cabinets rather than make them, and I still think that was the most beautiful kitchen I have ever had. The wood is cherry and the finish is beautifully done. Have you considered just buying the doors from CraftMaid and installing them on your existing cabinets? Just an idea.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

First, welcome. Lucky to have your wife involved in the shop! My first thought was it's an added piece and that would still work if you matched the grain carefully and used the same wood species. 

You will need a number of bits to carry this off. The panel groove can be cut easily on all four sides with a slot cutter. Then use the wide panel bit to cut just the horizontal pieces (rails) and trim the curved section to fit against the stiles (vertical) If you do this in one piece, you will cut the rails wider than the stiles to account for the trim section, which will be the width of the bit.

You will also be using roundover bits in 1/4 and 1/8th sizes to soften those hard edges.

So you are talking about at least 3 bits. It is very easy to get stuck on the idea of using a single bit, which probably doesn't exist. The good news is this isn't a particularly complex panel door to make. 

Personally, I'd make it in two pieces, being extremely careful to fit the trim piece as precisely as possible into the door. I'd take plenty of time finding matching grain and color so they finish the same. You can use your router and bit to shape the trim piece separately. Cut the trim piece 1/8th inch wider that two times the bit's radius. If the bit cutter radius is 1.25 inches, rip the cut 2 5/8ths wide, then run it through twice, once on each edge, then rip it in half and you have both pieces.

Getting all rails and stiles the exact same thickness is really important or you have to do a lot of sanding later. Cut with the face down on a table, face up when cutting freehand. Forget about cutting the trim piece freehand. 

Finally, the best technique I've ever seen is in videos by Marc Sommerfeld, which you can find free on YouTube. He sells routing gear, but he was a master cabinet maker and his technique is uncomplicated and very precise. I have several of his matched bit sets and bought all of his videos on dvds. I watch an appropriate video whenever I do a project because they are so helpful. When you don't do a lot of the same projects, you forget details and spoil expensive wood. YouTube, Marc Sommerfeld will be very helpful.

I make a lot of picture frames, which are devilishly precise on cuts. One thing I discovered is that sanding finer than 220 grit was counterproductive. For exquisite finish, I prefer to use scrapers, which are cheap but take a little care to sharpen and use properly.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

look up panel raising with at table saw. You might be able to accomplish something similar on the rails. Make a piece a little over 2 times the width, and pass it over the table saw on edge with the blade tipped to the desired angle. You'll then have to put your panel grove in. Then cut it in half to final rail width

the pieces can be assembled square, and the radius added by hand later with a home-made 1/16 radius scraper. https://brfinewoodworking.com/making-a-scratch-stock/


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Welcome aboard Brian.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

kp91 said:


> look up panel raising with at table saw. You might be able to accomplish something similar on the rails. Make a piece a little over 2 times the width, and pass it over the table saw on edge with the blade tipped to the desired angle. You'll then have to put your panel grove in. Then cut it in half to final rail width
> 
> the pieces can be assembled square, and the radius added by hand later with a home-made 1/16 radius scraper. https://brfinewoodworking.com/making-a-scratch-stock/


This is another approach that will work nicely, if you have a well tuned table saw. Getting a roundover on a tapered part will be a challenge and a scraper is one way to do it. All the other cuts can be done on a table saw with a good, flat top rip blade. The Freud Glue Line blade would handle this nicely.

The tolerances are pretty demanding if you decide to do this with a saw, and I'd want a set of setup bars for this to set blade hight with precision.


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## Sominus (Oct 4, 2012)

Using the "extra moulding" method (as opposed to the custom cutter method)-- cutting this on a tablesaw would be easy. Cut several pieces at once for door-to-door consistency, then ease over on a roundover bit (you may have to get tricky with it using a jig, but I can see a few ways to make it work) and voila! 

I agree - nice lines, not overly ornate... I like it!


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Welcome to the forum


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Welcome to the form, If I were doing it , since it is a one off project and not a production run is to make it in 2 pieces like has been suggested above. From my view ,it looks like a small bead profile at the top inside edge. that could be done with a router. 
HErb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

My vote would be to do this entirely on the table saw...with a tenoning jig (like the Delta, for example). The roundovers I would do with a small sanding block. Table saw again for the mortise. You don't need to go out and buy a tenoning jig as long as you have a method of holding the rail straight up and down.

Tenoning jig with the blade set to 9.5deg will take care of the angle...blade at 90, 1/8" high for the straight cut...

This would let you make the entire profile from a single piece of wood and keeping the grain continuous...


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Welcome to the forum


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## brian_hammerhead (Jul 12, 2020)

Wow! The amount of experience and knowledge shared in this forum is amazing. So much great information and so many ideas. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to share.

Now I just have to figure out which method would work best for this project. Lots to explore...


For what it is worth, the KraftMaid door rail is a single piece of wood. Also, the round over on the stile appears to have a matching cut in the rail as evidenced by this photo. Seems like a pretty special machine to make these rails and stiles.


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## brian_hammerhead (Jul 12, 2020)

*Summary of options*

Wow, thanks to everyone for sharing their ideas. This forum has a wealth of knowledge! 

After reading the suggestions carefully, we are going to investigate 3 options:
1) Use the extra molding method by adding the 3/4" piece to the rails.
2) Ordering a custom router bit to cut the rails in one pass.
3) Use a commercial bit to get a 1/2" sloped piece on the rails instead of 3/4".
4) Just order the doors pre-made.


Option 1:
There are lots of good ideas in this thread about different ways to make the extra 3/4" molding piece. We will test a few to see what works best for us using the tools that we have.

Option 2:
Since we will eventually be doing the whole kitchen, it might be worth the money to order a custom router bit for the rails. A new thread will be started to explore that path.

Option 3:
The Whiteside 6004A appears to be a similar edge pattern except only 1/2" deep instead of 3/4" deep - and without the roundover. Maybe we would like it just as much.

















Option 4:
Initial queries with Home Depot exploring just buying the faces were not encouraging. The salesman said that the faces had to be in 1/4" increments which won't work for this project. Also, matching the stain of the drawer fronts with the face frames could be a challenge (both are cherry). A call directly to KraftMaid is planned for next week.


Thanks again for all your help. We plan to report back with our final decision.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Uh...
"2) Ordering a custom router bit to cut the rails in one pass."
-Brian

Pretty sure you'll need multiple passes on each piece. Tht's a lot of material to remove in a single pass (1/2" deep x 3/4" high).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Uh...
> "2) Ordering a custom router bit to cut the rails in one pass."
> -Brian
> 
> Pretty sure you'll need multiple passes on each piece. Tht's a lot of material to remove in a single pass (1/2" deep x 3/4" high).


hog out on the TS...
one pass w/ the router bit...
cut the RO w/ a RO hand plane...
*https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...32682-veritas-cornering-tool-set?item=05K5030
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...s/64284-mini-edge-rounding-plane?item=07P1507*


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> hog out on the TS...
> one pass w/ the router bit...
> cut the RO w/ a RO hand plane...
> *https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...32682-veritas-cornering-tool-set?item=05K5030
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/sho...s/64284-mini-edge-rounding-plane?item=07P1507*


For a tiny roundover like that I usually just sand it round. If you cup the sand paper in your hand and wrap your hand around the edge a few strokes is all you need. 

I needed to round the end of the legs on a bench I made the other day and they needed a larger roundover to make sure if someone drug it across a floor it wouldn't cause the sides of the legs to split. For that I used a small block plane and started almost flat to the sides and after a stroke or two increase the angle until I was almost flat on the end grain on the bottom of the leg. I held the plane so that it was about 45* to the grain while I planed so that I was taking a skew cut. Once I had the radius established I took sandpaper and held it by the ends and wrapped it over the radius and a few strokes and you couldn't tell that they weren't machine done. Not using a router eliminated the risk of getting tear out doing it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> For a tiny roundover like that I usually just sand it round. If you cup the sand paper in your hand and wrap your hand around the edge a few strokes is all you need. .
> For that I used a small block plane and started almost flat to the sides and after a stroke or two increase the angle until I was almost flat on the end grain on the bottom of the leg. I held the plane so that it was about 45* to the grain while I planed so that I was taking a skew cut. /QUOTE]
> 
> stepped the chamfer???


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You just keep altering the angle of the block plane from near vertical to near horizontal or vice versa. That gives you a multifaceted chamfer that a few strokes with sandpaper makes round. If you only have a few to do it's faster than setting up a router bit to do it. Just not as uniform. But then as I like to say, if it looks perfect it is perfect. It doesn't actually have to be perfect.


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