# Router Bit Brands ??? Bosch vs Freud



## ricktrue (Jun 5, 2006)

Any one have advice on quality of 1/2" carbide bits by Bosch vs. Freud?
Bosch has a 12 bit box for $288 and Freud has a nice 13 bit display box for $199
Thanks


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi ricktrue
Both the bit brands you posted (Bosch & Freud) are great bit sets BUT I do recommend the CMT router bit sets, because they come in a great box and they are coated with teflon 
This will make your bits last longer and cut stock just like butter.
The 1st. time you use one you will also say WOW also. 
Buying a good router bit set is like buying a new router and sometimes more than you paid for the router you have now so you want the best for your money and you want them to last a LONG,LONG time. 

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?id=31
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?id=28
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/products.asp?id=30

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/category.asp?id=10


Bj


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

*Check out this test...*

Ricktrue,

You may want to take a look at a test of 17 brands of bits done by Taunton. 

I tried to post the link here, but kept getting a bizarre error message saying "Could not find phrase 'x_contains_urls'". (VERY FRUSTRATING!!!) Since I can't post the link...

Search Google for "taunton router bit matchup". Click the link "Router-Bit Matchup" (should be the first link). When the page opens, go down the page about 1/2 way and you should see "Router-bit Scorecard". That shows the detailed results of the test.

As far as I know, this is the only quantitative review that is available. Virtually all of the other reviews that I've seen are either of a single brand or qualitative with comments like "Great bits", "I've been using xyz for 40 years...", etc. :-(

How some of the popular brands scored: Whiteside was 1st. Freud scored a respectable 4th, Amana was 5th, MLCS was 6th, CMT was 7th. Bosch was a rather poor 12th, and Rockler was a pitiful 16th and DNF (wore out before the test finished). 

Regarding prices... I checked out current online prices for Whiteside, Amana, CMT and Freud. Prices were pretty comparable for the bits I've listed above - about $15-16. 

Some people may want to pick nits with the test. That's OK with me as long as they provide good reasons why the ranking should be different.

Good luck with your choice,

Dan.

p.s., regarding my router bit preferences, I have a mild preference for Whiteside and Amana based on some recommendations by others and my own limited experience. While I still like Bosch tools, I wouldn't touch one of their bits now. I'll probably buy Whiteside bits unless they don't have a particular bit. Then maybe Amana or CMT.


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

Bosch used to be one of the best before they started making them in ??? 
Freud is one of the sharpest. I use MLCS a lot can't beat them for price and performance. CMT way to pricey for the quality you get but good if you get them on sale. Rockler, woodcraft and eagle america slightly above harborfreight.

Here's the link

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00045.asp

Thanks DAN


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Good point about the price. The Whiteside bit in the test is 1069 - 1/2" shank, 1/2" diameter, 1 1/2" flute length. The comparable bit in MLCS is #7777 (interesting number).

For the Whiteside, the best price I could find is $14.11 at Briar Toys. The best price I could find for MLCS is $13.00 at MLCS Woodworking. I did notice that the price difference increased for some of the more complex bits. 

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., the error popped up again when I quoted your post. When I removed the quote, all was well.


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## mpphoto (May 7, 2006)

I tend to classify my bits.

I started out by buying a large set of Holbren bits and used them as my "getting acquainted" bits. Still use them for many things.

My "first tier" bits would be Whiteside, CMT and Infinity. They all feel similar in quality to me. I use these for more important projects and finer woods. I keep these away from plywood and mdf if possible. When I'm looking to buy a new bit I typically look at Whiteside first but if one of my other favorites has a sale or special deal that's fine too.

I haven't tried MLCS yet although I recently found out they are local to me. I'd be curious to hear some opinions. 

As for the original post, I have no experience with Bosch bits but my Freud experiences have always been favorable. I have several dozen Freud bits but they are all 1/4" shank so I don't use them as much anymore.

Thanks to Dan for the FWW link. Very interesting article.

Michael


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Michael,

Good perspective about buying by classification. I have to think about it bit more (no pun intended). I may post some detailed questions in the next couple of days.

Thanks,

Dan.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

"Rockler, woodcraft and eagle america slightly above harborfreight." ???
Woodcraft offers a 100% money back guarantee on their bits. Their quality is substantially above HF. They are not top of the line quality but are a great bit for beginners. They give excellent value for the price. When you are starting out you rarely need a production quality bit. Common sense tells you to buy some inexpensive decent quality bits to get started. These bits will give you good service for a couple of years. As you replace them go with higher quality bits based on what you actually use. There is no reason to buy a premium bit you will use only once or twice. By the same token there is no reason to ever buy the bits that cost $1 each. That is just throwing your money away. Given that the Woodcraft bits were not run in the Taunton test where bits ran from about $8 - $22 their $5 sale price for a medium quality bit is a great deal. Will they wear out faster than premium brands? Yes. Will they perform well for the price? Absolutely.


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## fibertech (May 7, 2005)

At the woodworking show that I went to earlier this year, Freud had a large display. I believe that they offer a service where you can get their bits resharpened for little or nothing. Like any place where pitchmen get your attention, this was that way. You might consider the service to make your bits last longer. -Derek


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

Alright Mike,
That is kind of harsh for me to give Rockler, woodcraft and eagle America slightly above rating to harborfreight or even worse eBay router bits where you get 60 bits for 9 dollars.  

But value for the price definition can be different for each individual.

Inexperienced router user can take the best router bit in the world and turn it into screaming burnt out hunk of steel in less than 5 minutes of use. 
A pro can make an average bit last for few jobs taking small passes at appropriate speed and watching the grain and all that pampering and depending on wood types or other material and routing style. 

We all can agree that an excellent router bit will keep it’s edge/sharpness for a long time no matter what type of hard wood we run it through.aand has less kikcback, It will have the highest grade of carbide and steel. We don’t want bit’s breaking in the middle of a work and come flying at us not to mention screw up expensive lumber.

So, decision comes down to for me is it worth grabbing average bits for the sale price?
Even if I was just starting out, to me the answer would be no. Even the big boys brands make defective bits now and then. So as a rookie I would rather play it safe learning with better router bit. I rather spend little bit more and get a higher quality bit. I only buy premium when it’s absolutely necessary due to the fact where I can’t find the same type/profile of bit for less. :sold:


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## mpphoto (May 7, 2006)

When you're just starting you're easily attracted to the inexpensive sets with lots of bits. It's a great way to try many profiles and decide which ones you like. Then most people replace those bits with better quality ones. It all makes sense.

If I were starting over I'd consider a set like this. 

It's a quality name yet the price is reasonable because it's only 7 bits. It's a combination of the more commonly used bits. This vendor gives a 10% discount to woodnet.com members and free shipping so $80 delivered is not too shabby. (usual disclaimer: I have no affiliation, just a happy customer)

I would also not hesitate to take advantage of Woodcraft's $5 bit sales events. 
They may not be top quality but they are certainly a good bargain at $5.

Michael


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Michael, 

This looks like a great price. I looked on RouterBits.com. The same kit costs $99. At $88 - 10%, I'm ready to jump on it. But...

I googled woodnet.com. It looks like a French website. Is this a typo?

Regards,

Dan.


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

*Never mind!!!*



dan_public said:


> Michael,
> 
> This looks like a great price. I looked on RouterBits.com. The same kit costs $99. At $88 - 10%, I'm ready to jump on it. But...
> 
> ...


I just realized that you meant WoodNet.net. Duh! (It's been a long day.)

Dan.


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## mpphoto (May 7, 2006)

No problem Dan 

Another option I had forgotten about earlier;
Hartville Tool has the set at the same price and they offer 15% discount to woodnetters (enter the text woodnet15% at checkout) but no free shipping so it's basically the same as Holbren in the end.

I shop frequently at both places and have had nothing but great experiences all around.

Michael


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Michael,

I must be really beat today, but I can't figure out how to get the WoodNet discount. Is there WoodNet discount code? I can't find it on the WoodNet site.

Thanks,

Dan.


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## mpphoto (May 7, 2006)

My fault Dan, it's not on the site.
If you're ordering from Holbren you simply enter "woodnet10" in the order form (I think there's an area to enter discount code or comments or something). For Hartville tool you enter "woodnet15%" in the comments section of your order. The discount won't appear when you place your order but you will receive an email invoice with the discount taken off. If I remember correctly the discount at Hartville is not valid for power tools.

Michael


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Michael,

Hi. I got a reply from Brian at Holbren too. After discount, the price was $79.20! Great price. I liked the prices so much I ordered five more bits (another roundover, a template bit, and three plywood bits). I'm a happy camper. 

Thanks,

Dan.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

dan_public said:


> Ricktrue,
> 
> Some people may want to pick nits with the test. That's OK with me as long as they provide good reasons why the ranking should be different.


How about the fact that the Taunton test is OLD news and doesn't reflect the current marketplace?


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Charles M said:


> How about the fact that the Taunton test is OLD news and doesn't reflect the current marketplace?


Charles,

That's a general statement and there's a lot of general statements floating around. To be blunt, that's not good enough. Give me specifics:

- When was this test performed? 

- What has changed since then? 

- Why would any positioning change? 

- What other factors should I consider?

- Since Whiteside was #1 and your company was #4, and the prices are roughly equivalent, what has changed since then that would make want to buy a Freud bit? (Freud is a fine company, but Whiteside bits were rated higher.)

I want clarity and specifics.

Thanks and regards,

Dan.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just my 2 cents

book #137 July/August 1999 

Real-World Finishing, Component-Built Sideboard, Oscillating Spindle Sanders, Joinery for Curved Work, Putting Your Stamp on Furniture, Turbine HVLP Sprayers Keep Getting Better, Garden Gate Made of White Cedar, Pain-Free Woodworking, Hefty Sofa Table with a Delicate Touch, Router-Bit Matchup

Router-Bit Matchup=last item listed ...in the group.... 

Bj


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## dan_public (Jun 15, 2006)

Bj,

OK, sounds like it's old. Of course that's the only info that I have to go on. What's newer? I would be very interested in seeing newer quantitative analysis.

Regards,

Dan.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Me Too

Bj


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Dan,

Those are fair questions. The article was from 1999 and many things have changed at Freud since then. For one, we now use a new carbide formulation which we developed that lasts 3X longer than the carbide on the Freud bit in that test. We have also built a brand new router bit manufacturing facility with the most state of the art CNC machines in the industry. Additionally, we have introduced more new innovative router bits than all of our competitors combined.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

I can tell you what guys, the customer service I have had from Frued is excellent. They take care of you when there is a problem. I also tell you, their forstener bits are the best I have ever used... you pay a little more for them but they are worth it. I have one clock fitup bit that I have been using for about 15 years and now I use it to drill turnings out. I have a couple others as well that I have had for several years and I have had them resharpened locally once. 

Corey


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## mpphoto (May 7, 2006)

challagan said:


> I can tell you what guys, the customer service I have had from Frued is excellent. They take care of you when there is a problem. Corey


I have to strongly second this statement. I had a major problem over the 4th of July holiday weekend and it was resolved quickly. Excellent customer service.

Michael


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## ccwoodcrafts (Feb 1, 2010)

*Frued seems best to me*

I've had cheap harbor freight, woodworkers supply, craftsman, woodcraft, Freud, maybe PC, Whiteside and a few others. I just got a Whiteside 1/2" at Woodcraft yesterday and the shank must be undersized because it wouldn't lock down. Tried two separate 1/2 collets in two separate Freud Routers. My Freud 1/2 inchers locked right down, the Whiteside spun. Pretty disappointing and even though it was on sale I will need to drive all the way back to woodcraft to get a new one, spending about the cost of the bit on gas for two trips. So my opinion of Whitesides is not too good as that was my first or second bit from them. I actually liked the woodcraft green or blue brand, can't remember if it was called "woodcraft" or "WoodTek" years ago, and for all I know Whiteside made them, but so far the Freud bits have universally been sharper, more accurate and hold their edge forever, in relative terms. There is definitely a difference in quality with the higher end brands, but of them, Freud seems best to me. Also a guy who distributes will buy both CMT and Freud for his own shop, but prefers Freud. My two cents.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

I've a couple of big sets of no name bits and they work fine on plywood and MDF for me. The price was so cheap it was ridiculous. They provide me with a good stock of basic bits for work that isn't critical. So far only one has ever broken.

I've also a mixture of PC, Eagle, Price Cutter, Elite, Holbren, Trend and George Hsu's ones, all bought inexpensively and adequate for purpose.

For decent work I've CMT that I've been picking up whenever they were on offer, including replaceable tip types. I've also a few Freud, Walden and even some Bosch. 

One thing I have noted with CMT, and as virtually all mine were bought on offer, I cannot easily compare with regularly priced ones, is that while they are very nicely made and cut well, they are not necessarily spot on for dimension. Maybe the specials were QC rejects. I don't know, but surely if they were, the vendor should have advertised them as such and didn't.


Cheers

Peter


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## jenielsen (Jan 31, 2010)

ccwoodcrafts said:


> ... So my opinion of Whitesides is not too good as that was my first or second bit from them.


Interesting that you had issues with them. I realize that the article is a couple years old at this point, but FineWoodworking did a Tool Test in May/June 2007 magazine which pitted 18 different brands against one another. Whiteside and Eagle came out on top.

You need to be a FineWoodworking member to view the PDF on their website, but there is a PDF re-print located at (interestingly) Whiteside's website here:
(cut & paste the link into your browser's address bar)

--->http://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/ToolTestRouterBits.pdf<---


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

Wow! MLCS only "fair"? Freud only "good"?

Somewhat related: Anyone heard of Dimar bits? I believe they are made by the same company that makes Teknatool stuff. Not cheap. Any good?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

Charles M said:


> Dan,
> 
> Those are fair questions. The article was from 1999 and many things have changed at Freud since then. For one, we now use a new carbide formulation which we developed that lasts 3X longer than the carbide on the Freud bit in that test. We have also built a brand new router bit manufacturing facility with the most state of the art CNC machines in the industry. Additionally, we have introduced more new innovative router bits than all of our competitors combined.


Is there a secret decoder ring to the markings on bits to indicate which features they have (new carbide, different clearance grind, etc)? While the moves to anti-kickback and Quadracut designs are obvious the rest isn't to an un-trained eye.

The part numbers most people use (ex 34-140 for a 1.5" round-over bit) seem to have remained consistent.


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