# Materials for Kitchen Project



## patlaw (Jan 4, 2010)

Remember, I'm a beginner. I've found something that my wife wants that I can absolutely build with my limited tools (SCMS, routers, and hand tools). The outside dimensions are fine, but what are the horizontal strips that hold the spice containters? Are they likely 1/2" by 1" hardwood? Is this rack possibly made out of pine? My biggest challenge is having to use dimensional lumber without having a table saw, jointer, and planer. I'd have to find someone locally to rip the strips for me, I assume. Please offer your thoughts about how you would specify the materials for this uber-simple project. Do you see any gotchas?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

1/4 x 3/4....

use lattice for the strips..
find that stuff in the molding section of your local BB...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

You could also try in the molding and trim section of HD or Lowes (where they keep the good wood, treads, project wood, etc.)... you will find 1/4 x 1", 1 1/4", etc... in pine and oak. I've seen flat and with one edge rounded...

You will also find same stuff in plastic but I wouldn't recommend it... a little too flexible.

If you have a circular saw you could make strips from 1x6 or 1x8 using a long edge guide...this would leave you 3/4" strips. Make sure your piece is firmly secured on a table (clamps) and, of course, cut edge off the table... wouldn't want to upset mama...  Keep cutting until you get to the point where you can't secure it any longer and then use the remainder for other parts of the racks, for example, the outside frame... a little sanding will help...

Make sure your hinges are good and strong and replace those little 3/4" screws with longer... don't want the door to get wobbly on ya...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"If you have a circular saw you could make strips from 1x6 or 1x8 using a long edge guide...this would leave you 3/4" strips. Make sure your piece is firmly secured on a table (clamps) and, of course, cut edge off the table...wouldn't want to upset mama... Keep cutting until you get to the point where you can't secure it any longer and then use the remainder for other parts of the racks, for example, the outside frame...a little sanding will help..."
-Nick

Yes! A new, sharp, thin kerf blade... 40 tooth?... will give you great results. Circ. saw blades are cheap, all things considered.

You could also rip off the edge of a 2x6, giving you 1 1/2" wide strips. Or rip the 2x6 to 1" thickness before ripping off the edge strips.


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

If the door is solid core, no problems with hanging it on the back of the door.

Now if it is a hollow core door, will hollow/dry wall anchors work? I have seen some very thin hollow core doors....


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Thin Skinned*



Ray Newman said:


> If the door is solid core, no problems with hanging it on the back of the door.
> 
> Now if it is a hollow core door, will hollow/dry wall anchors work? I have seen some very thin hollow core doors....


Ray; the corrugated cardboard strips used to give the thin door skins some substance, have no real structural strength. They're not bad in compression, but pretty useless in tension, such as occurs by hanging weight off the skin. Hanging one's bathrobe off a coat hook installed with expansion anchors is one thing, this proposed concept is something else entirely different. I'm thinking that's what you were getting at?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

@patlaw - trim moulding is what I used when I did mine. My old table saw was kinda rickety. Actually, come to think of it, I don't recall if I even owned a table saw back then. It has been many years.

But I did do some updating this past year.

Check out my project here. Very similar only mine was not as complex. And it is attached to a hollow core door.

Good luck.
Make her happy, and you will be happy! :grin: :dance3:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

But not a _flat_ skin, Mike. The panelling effect adds a lot of rigidity to the skins, and to the door I might add.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Whoa! Call me blind...the door in the OP's pic is _also_ a panelled door skin.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

add a 1/8'' back to the organizer and build it to fit to the door's rails and stiles...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Looks like a good project to me, create a plan and cut the wood so this looks like that worked as you intended regardless of how many tools you have. N


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## patlaw (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks for the input so far. My wife got impatient, went to Bed Bath and Beyond and purchased a wire rack kit. After I spent an hour trying to get it installed, I ultimately discovered that there is not enough clearance with the 20" door to make the kit work. To be candid, I was a little disappointed that she bought the kit because this project looks like a do-able one for me (with the qualification below.) The baskets or trays on mine will not be as deep, so they will hopefully allow the door to close. It's not fun drilling into solid stained wood panel doors and then not using the holes for screws, so the one I build will hopefully cover those. 

Here's a question I've asked many times and gotten what I am sure are accurate and helpful responses. However, it's not sinking in. How can I build anything useful using dimensional lumber from Lowe's? The stuff is warped, bowed, and twisted, and the width and thickness are inconsistent. Everything I've built with shelving board looks terrible. My thoughts on this project are to go to a lumber yard 20 miles from home and get them to dimension and cut the lumber I need from something better than pine.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

If you attach the shelves to the skin of the door, consider using glue as well as fasteners. If you put a thin backing behind the shelves, then glue makes sense as a way to distribute the weight across the entire surface, not just the attachment points. If the door has panels, a backing is a reasonable solution. A simple flat interior door is really cheap to replace in the future so a permanent glue solution is not a problem when you sell. 

Make sure your saw is cutting the ends of your wood square or the fit will be sloppy. Most of the stress will be from the bottom of each shelf, so consider glue and screwing from the back side into the shelf. Get a countersink and use it carefully (not too deep) with flat head wood screws to add strength and so that it will attach flat to the door back. If it is a hollow door, I'd use a piece of ply wide and tall enough so you can attach it to the solid portions at the edge of the side of the door and on top where there is some solid material. 

If you cut down the ply yourself, remember to put the good side down with your circular saw. Keep one factory finished edge of the ply that you can use later to make a straight edge for your circular saw, which will allow you to make some pretty accurate cuts. 




I really like this kind of project. Fun to do, doesn't take long and you get lots of husband points.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

@patlaw

Mike...meant to answer your more specific question earlier about what you can do with dimensional lumber and the limited tools you might have...

I tend to think of everything as being made from basic shapes...4-sided, 3-sided, no-sided (circular)...that makes it easier for me.

I get your "pain" with dimensional lumber but there are many things you can do...

Shelves...use 3/4 ply or cabinet grade, or Baltic Birch...not a whole lot of difference in price for what you might use of a sheet...you can cut it up with your circular saw using a long straight edge. Ply will not bend or warp on you. For added strength you can use a strip on edge and nail/glue/screw it on to the edge of the ply. Instant good-looking shelf.

Plywood can also be used for sides of cabinets with 1x3 as a face. 1x's can be used to mask the ply's edging.

2x's are a bit of a challenge but if you look at the Douglas Fir's in the Big Box stores you will find them to be and stay straight. They are a bit more money, however, but worth it to get good wood.

Do a search on how to select wood and you will find how to look through the lot by checking the edge grain...more help available here as many pictures have been posted showing how dimensional wood (and others) are cut at the mill @Stick486 can help here.

2x4's can be cut down to make strips or slats. For small pieces you can use a good cross cut hand saw.

Your circular saw can cut a rabbet in an edge of 2x's if you use a good (or long) edge guide. Edge guides come ready to suit 2ft, 4ft and 8ft and longer pieces.

In the "good wood" section of HD and Lowes you will find some "project" wood. These are 2 and 4ft pieces in a variety of widths in pine, poplar and oak.

You can also buy a stair tread and make oak strips, saddles, etc...using your circular saw.

You can bevel with the circ saw and put a nice 45* edge on any piece of wood.

Check out the trim and molding section and you will find plenty of profiles to make frames, hide edges of plywood, strips of maple (can be ordered), etc... 

I would suggest taking a peek at the Douglas Fir 2x's and see if that will help to "underwhelm" your "overwhelm" with dimensional lumber.

I've built many a shop cabinet with 2x's and plywood...can't tell you how many shelves I've put together with 3/4 ply and 2x's. Shelves in kitchen cabinets get good ply and edge-trimmed with ripped-down oak stair treads I've replaced in people's homes.

And don't forget "dumpster-diving"...very lucrative, especially when people throw out oak (white and red) flooring...just be very careful with the nails that might be embedded in the edges...

Ask more...maybe a specific project...and you'll get plenty of additional ideas how to treat dimensional lumber. I guess the message is to check out the Douglas Fir 2x's and the good lumber section of the stores.

You may already know what I've suggested but if not I hope it sparks some additional ideas.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; I feel your pain, re the crappy lumber available. Don't blame Pine; blame Lowes. There's no excuse for their ramming inferior lumber quality down their customers throats. To be fair, they're only responding to customers demanding CHEAP lumber... Go the 20 miles and buy good stuff. In fact stock up so you have it when you need it (assuming you have someplace to store it ?).

Ps ; very unfair of a wife to usurp her hubby's man-cave privileges/rights... before at least a doz. warnings that she is going to do so! 
*
SPF Lumber - Softwoods - Spruce, Pine and Fir
Grades*
*Construction Lumber for Fine Furniture? | McCauley's Design*


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> @patlaw
> 
> Mike...meant to answer your more specific question earlier about what you can do with dimensional lumber and the limited tools you might have...
> 
> ...


you looking for this ??...

*DIRECTION OF MOVEMENT*
Although it’s constantly expanding and contracting, wood does not move equally in all directions. The grain structure causes it to move differently in three different directions.
Wood is fairly stable along its longitudinal direction, parallel to the grain. Green lumber shrinks only 0.01 percent of its length as it dries. An 8-foot-long board will move only 3/32 inch. Wood moves much more across the grain, tangent to the growth rings. Green lumber shrinks as much as 8 percent in this direction. But it shrinks only half as much (4 percent) in the radial direction, extending out from the pith along the radius of the growth rings. For this reason, quartersawn lumber is more stable than plain-sawn lumber. Quartersawn lumber is cut radially and moves only half as much across its width as plain-sawn lumber, which is cut tangentially
** 
CHANGING SHAPE*
The difference in tangential and radial movement has other important consequences. Depending on how it’s cut from the tree, a board may change shape as it dries: If the annual rings run side to side in square stock, the stock will shrink to a rectangle. If the rings run diagonally from corner to corner, the stock will become diamond-shaped. Round stock becomes oval as the tangential diameter shrinks more than the radial diameter. Plain-sawn lumber tends to cup in the opposite direction of the growth rings because the outside face (the face farthest from the pith) shrinks a little faster than the inside face.

In quartersawn lumber, both faces shrink equally and the board remains flat. And there are other forces that may cause a board to move or change shape. Stress sometimes develops in the tree as it grows or in the lumber when it’s improperly dried. Internally stressed wood (called reaction wood) moves when you cut it. Cutting relieves some of the stress, and the wood reacts by changing shape. This is quite different from normal wood movement, however. Once the stress dissipates, it no longer affects the wood. But there’s nothing you can do to stop radial and tangential movement. As long as there’s weather, the boards will continue to shrink and swell.

Why not use all 1by doug fir/clear pine for the frame, luan for the back and a lattice type wood from the molding department for the retainers...

@Nickp. ... you lost me.. why the 2bys???...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

That be it...thanks...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I would look for a cheap table saw on craigslist and rip the wood to size. I have seen saws for as little as $25 dollars which is less than you will pay for the thinner wood that you need.


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## patlaw (Jan 4, 2010)

mgmine said:


> I would look for a cheap table saw on craigslist and rip the wood to size. I have seen saws for as little as $25 dollars which is less than you will pay for the thinner wood that you need.


I actually have a table saw. It's a mid-level Sears model from the nineties that my father never took out of the box. When I inherited it 18 years ago and took it out of the back 10 years ago, it was pretty well rusted. A friend borrowed it for a while and cleaned it up a little, but it still has a lot of rust. The problem is, I can't get to it to use it. I don't have a shop. And I'm scared of table saws.

I've thought a few times about getting the portable SawStop, but I want my skill level to improve some first. (Chicken and egg?) I was part of a local online woodworking group, but the personalities of some of the powers-that-be there caused me to lose interest in the forum and in woodworking. After finding this awesome group, my interest is rekindled.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sort of like a pub... with sawdust on the floor?


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

patlaw said:


> I actually have a table saw. It's a mid-level Sears model from the nineties that my father never took out of the box. When I inherited it 18 years ago and took it out of the back 10 years ago, it was pretty well rusted. A friend borrowed it for a while and cleaned it up a little, but it still has a lot of rust. The problem is, I can't get to it to use it. I don't have a shop. And I'm scared of table saws.
> 
> I've thought a few times about getting the portable SawStop, but I want my skill level to improve some first. (Chicken and egg?) I was part of a local online woodworking group, but the personalities of some of the powers-that-be there caused me to lose interest in the forum and in woodworking. After finding this awesome group, my interest is rekindled.


Check with your local school district they may have an adult education program for woodworking. Or place an ad on Craigslist looking for instructions or do a search for a local woodworking club. There may even be someone on this forum that lives near you. Once you get started you will gain the confidence that is needed to use the saw.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

patlaw said:


> I actually have a table saw. It's a mid-level Sears model from the nineties that my father never took out of the box. When I inherited it 18 years ago and took it out of the back 10 years ago, it was pretty well rusted. A friend borrowed it for a while and cleaned it up a little, but it still has a lot of rust. The problem is, I can't get to it to use it. I don't have a shop. And I'm scared of table saws.
> 
> I've thought a few times about getting the portable SawStop, but I want my skill level to improve some first. (Chicken and egg?) I was part of a local online woodworking group, but the personalities of some of the powers-that-be there caused me to lose interest in the forum and in woodworking. After finding this awesome group, my interest is rekindled.


A couple of things. First, fear of a tablesaw is a good thing, at first in particular. Whatever saw you get, do your best at first to keep the safety devices on while you work. Occasionally they will be a nuisance, but you get to keep your fingers. You should also learn to keep you thumbs tight to your hand when pushing things through the saw. Get a device called a Grripper, which has legs that straddle the blade and that allow you to push down, and against the fence as well as forward while keeping fingers safely away from the blade. This is the best safety device I've found beside the blade guard.

A table saw and a good router, plus your circular saw and an edge guide are such fundamental , go-to shop tools that it makes no sense not to get something really good. I happen to love the Laguna 10 inch fusion, which runs on 110-120 volts and has ample power. It is precise, comes with a great fence, has decent dust collection, has a workable blade guard and a riving knife to keep the blade from lifting and kicking a workpiece back at you at 100 mph.

Most videos and TV woodshop programs remove all the safety devices so you can see the process clearly, but you can do most things with the guards on. I am not much of a fan of the SawStop. I think the most important safety device is your brain and learning to pay very close attention to what you are doing, where your hands are and where the blade is. The Saw Stop will set you back about $120 bucks every time if fires. You must buy a new cartridge, and it will ruin your saw blade as well ($40-100 bucks each for good ones).

There are a lot of used books on Amazon on using a table saw safely. They also show you how to properly set one up so the cuts are right on. I found a used copy of Taunton's Complete Illustrated Guide to Tablesaws by Paul Anthony that was helpful. Not sure if its available still, but there was a Shop Notes publication titled Table Saw Essentials that was full of helpful hints.

Jigs of all sorts will make it much safer to use a table saw. Most useful for safety is a "sled," which has runners on the bottom that fit in the miter slot(s) cut into the tops of every table saw. This holds your workpiece to the blade while you keep your fingers a safe distance away. Youtube has lots of examples you can make yourself. But I bought ne from Rockler that lets you easily make angled cuts. Look at it here: *Table Saw Crosscut Sled - Rockler Woodworking Tools**.* Very much worth the price to me.

There are so many books full of jigs that will make working on the saw or router MUCH safer.

As to dimensional lunber. There are some really good tips you've already read. I have found that HD has clear pine with great grain as well as some hard woods. I usually wait to buy this stuff until they've restocked and have a lot on hand. I go through until I find pieces that are straight, have good grain and have no significant twists or other flaws. Sometimes I will buy something that is mostly straight and just use the good part. Beats driving 120 miles round trip to the closest lumber yard. 

There is a post in the site's lobby called 17 things. It should help a lot to get you started.


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