# Bosch 4100 saw troubles



## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

Has anyone else had problems using a stacked dado set on their Bosch 4100?
Bosch says that it will accept a ¾” dado set, but I can only go to slightly over 5/8” before the outer blade drops onto the threads. :sad: I have closely followed their instructions about reversing the inner and outer washers and using the thin outer washer they provide with the dado insert.
Contacting Bosch technical service has netted me nothing. They, naturally, went through the entire washer placement procedure even though I assured them that I had already done so. Then, after about 2 weeks, they decided that I had bought an “old” stock saw with a short arbor installed and needed to take my saw to a service center for repair.
After complaining that the service center was over 60 miles away and I could replace the arbor myself, I was told that they would send me a pre-paid shipping box to return the saw to them for the repair. I told them that I could easily replace the arbor and was not willing to give up my saw for the time required. That was the end of their communication. 
So, figuring that if the arbor in my saw was an old style, I researched the part number, and ordered it online for less than $12.00 from E-replacement Parts. When it arrived, it was identical to the one in my saw. No help.
After talking with a customer rep at a local hardware that sells Bosch, he was going to show me that reversing the washers,(his idea) would work on their floor display model that was only 2 weeks old. Wrong, only 5/8” would fit correctly. 
So, my question is:
What now? 
Sorry for the long post, but I couldn’t say this any quicker.
:thank_you2:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bosch offered you a free upgrade and you refused it, what should we say? I would of sent the saw in. Bosch goes out of their way to make customers happy.


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## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

I would agree Mike, if it were indeed an upgrade. But, they already told me they needed only to replace the arbor which I'm willing to do at the cost of losing any future warranty.
And, if that is what they call an upgrade, why does the brand new 4100 I looked at this week need it also?
And,,,, if they have upgraded the arbor to be what it is stated to be, why would the new arbor I bought be exactly the same as the original.
One more thought. Why should I be willing to send my saw away for a 15 to 20 minute repair while sitting in my shop for 2 to 3 weeks doing nothing?
Please don't get me wrong. I love Bosch products ( I have 6 more), I just want the option to buy the replacement parts needed.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Why should it take 2-3 weeks?! That's outrageous. I could understand if they gave you a loaner...at their expense.
Personally, I'd tell them to give me an appointment time, I'll bring the saw in, and I'll wait for it. If it's indeed a 20 min. job that shouldn't cause any ruffled feathers.
Mind you a 60mi. drive x2 ain't cheap gas wise.


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## WayneMahler (May 17, 2012)

There is also the possibility that the saw they had in stock was also an older model still needing the upgrade. I have had service through Bosch and will say it was an out standing experience. If they are going to pay the freight to and from, I would just let them handle it. If it comes back the same then I would have a reason to complain about the service. Keep in mind that they go off a computer screen just as we do. If they are working off old information, they are just as stuck as we are. What I am talking about is e-parts having an outdated diagram. Not sure this will help, but through my experiences I have learned to give them the benefit of the doubt. And I have done this with more than one company. Give them a chance in my opinion.


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## jolly1 (May 22, 2009)

Hi 
Would it be possible to post a picture of the arbor. I have a Bosch GTS 10XC which is the european / UK version. This is 30 mm arbor. This is accomplished by the inner washer / spacer having a 30 mm ring machined onto the face which accepts the blade.

I have measured the Arbor and it is indeed 5/8 inch. 

I looked at espares and the outer washer which should move into the inside has two flats on it to key to the arbor. But the inner part of the shaft on the euro model does not have the flats.

On the US model do the flats extend along the arbor ? If they do I was going to purchase the US arbor and fit to UK model which would then permit me to mount a dado.

Thanks in advance for any help


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

John (first post here for you)

Welcome to the Router Forum


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## Harrison67 (May 30, 2012)

WayneMahler said:


> There is also the possibility that the saw they had in stock was also an older model still needing the upgrade. I have had service through Bosch and will say it was an out standing experience. If they are going to pay the freight to and from, I would just let them handle it. If it comes back the same then I would have a reason to complain about the service. Keep in mind that they go off a computer screen just as we do. If they are working off old information, they are just as stuck as we are. What I am talking about is e-parts having an outdated diagram. Not sure this will help, but through my experiences I have learned to give them the benefit of the doubt. And I have done this with more than one company. Give them a chance in my opinion.



I agree, it seems I have a lot more patience these days for such things. Bosch should do the right thing.


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## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

jolly1 said:


> Hi
> Would it be possible to post a picture of the arbor. I have a Bosch GTS 10XC which is the european / UK version. This is 30 mm arbor. This is accomplished by the inner washer / spacer having a 30 mm ring machined onto the face which accepts the blade.
> 
> I have measured the Arbor and it is indeed 5/8 inch.
> ...



Sorry this took so long, I haven't been in the shop enough lately. :nono:

I took 2 pics of my arbor on a rule so you might be able to tell something about the length of it. The outer end of the solid part of it is indeed aligned with the 1 inch mark.

On another note, I've been in contact with Ellen in Bosch customer service, trying to get her to find someone to physically check this for me, instead of reporting everything she has available on her computer. I stopped at a retailer last week (not a big box store) and asked to inspect their display model saw. This saw I was told was only 5 weeks old, as compared to mine, which is almost 3 years old. Theirs was identical to mine, and the salesman there was stymied too. The manual, and Ellen at customer service says it works. But I am not very comfortable with the blades sitting on the threads.
I will report anything new I hear from customer service. :yes4:

I hope this helps you Jolly1. Let us know what you end up with.


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## jolly1 (May 22, 2009)

Hi Wayne,
Thanks for the pictures, confirm what I thought the US shaft has 2 flats machined into the non threaded section. Where as in the UK it is just the machined shaft which accepts the inner washer which has a 30 mm collar to accept the blade.

Checked the sizes on my Arbor and appears to be similar size to yours. Machine part of the shaft is approx 14 mm, total shaft length from the collar to the nd of the threaded section is 32 mm.

I agree looks like the dado would be mounted on the threaded part. 

Looks like I would need to order the US shaft for the 4100, if I wan't to use a dado.

Did you strip down and remove your arbor ? 

Thanks again for the info, points me in the right direction. 

John


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

A dado set rides on the threads anyway. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to put a single blade on it, and tighten it on unless you used a wide washer on the arbor.
Or am I missing something here?


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I was just thinking the same thing as Mike. Unless the diameter of threaded section is less than 5/8", there shouldn't be any issue running the blade on the threads as most table saws require this. (On my saw even the regular 10" blade sits on threads) As long as there is enough room on the arbor for the washer and nut, you shouldn't have any problem running your dado stack.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Going back to the original post, why didn't the technical people at Bosch just say so in the first place? Miscommunication?


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## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

DaninVan said:


> Going back to the original post, why didn't the technical people at Bosch just say so in the first place? Miscommunication?


That's the answer I'm still waiting for from Ellen @tech.service.
I thought that since there is a solid surface where a standard blade, or a dado up to 5/8" rides, they should have extended that surface far enough for the 13/16" dado that they say will work. When I tried though, 1 chipper actually fell into the threads.:angry:
So, I began questioning the issue but, I'm not in a position to *not* work at all in my shop until I ship the saw to them and wait to get it back.
Right now, I'll just use it for normal use until I hear back from them.


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## rcp612 (Oct 22, 2008)

I finally received a E-mail from Bosch technical service today that says: " It's normal for the outer blades to sit on the threads when using the full allowable width of 13/16". This will not cause any problems."
I guess I was just a little too concerned since so many replys in various forums warn people to never let their dado stack ride on the threaded part of the arbor. AxlMyk was right all the time.:thank_you2: Just have to remember to put the 1/16" chipper on next to the inner blade.
Now I can get to work and know I'm doing so safely.
Thank you everybody.


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## joevm (Jan 9, 2012)

Unfortunately, I am having the same challenge. But here's the rub - when I used the 3/4 dado the threads on the arbor actually stripped and it is now impossible to tighten the arbor nut without it slipping. It's Saturday and both Bosch and repair offices are now closed. Bosch told me yesterday that the repair should be under warranty - the repair service told me this morning that the saw wasn't shipped/delivered to me with a stripped arbor and that I stripped it when using the dado. Therefore the repair expense should be mine. Is the arbor that soft that it should strip that easily?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I know this was resolved some time back but I'm just adding my $.02 worth...again. 
My Delta 10" Contractor's saw has the whole visible portion of the shaft threaded. The apex of the threads are machined flat so that any blade rides on the flat, not in the trough (not possible for a blade to slip into a trough.). Obviously the same for dado sets. I think it was previously decided that that's the norm.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I know this was resolved some time back but I'm just adding my $.02 worth...again.
> My Delta 10" Contractor's saw has the whole visible portion of the shaft threaded. The apex of the threads are machined flat so that any blade rides on the flat, not in the trough (not possible for a blade to slip into a trough.). Obviously the same for dado sets. I think it was previously decided that that's the norm.


Thanks Dan. I didn't want to comment until someone else did. I believe mine (my cabinet saw) is like yours. The blade goes against shoulder of the arbor. The arbor has a smooth unthreaded section from there about 1/8" to where the threads start (fine left hand threads). If there were no blade, the arbor nut could tighten the arbor outer washer tightly against the shoulder of the arbor without coming to the end of the threads.

I believe I remember these owners posting that their threads were "coarse" thread. Am I remembering that correctly? 

Let's see. Thinking out loud. I'm not really commenting on this, just thinking this out. 

Bosch told them a dado could and should go on the threaded section of their arbor. They did as instructed. If it was "tightened," you would think it would not have moved or spun on those threads to bugger them up... That's the catch-21. 

The plate of circular saw blades are usually about the same hardness as an arbor. But a number of blade plates are tempered and tensioned, which then makes them harder. The nut stripped because the arbor was buggered up and the arbor is harder than the arbor nut. The nuts are usually designed to be softer to prevent damage from them to the arbor.

If the dado set plates spun, there might have been a part of the dado that was caught on a thread and it was only thought that the arbor was tight... until it started cutting, then broke free of the bind / loosened up?

Off hand, if it does have 5/8" course threads... In my head, at least to me, that would be a red flag to me NOT to try and use a stacked dado over it. Would not be able to use any dado shims. 1/16" inch chippers would have problems. 

Bosch did say it will handle an 8" dado of 13/16 thick... Short of redesigning the arbor with fine threads... Any other ways to do a dado safely on that saw without doing damage to the saw? (Again, still just thinking.) "5/8 to 30mm" sleeve with a 30mm arbored dado 8" dado (European)? Adjustable dado set (They have solid arbor bores)? Have a custom arbor made with fine threads? (matching nut)

***
I'm thinking that the Bosch Warrantee Section needs to call ahead to your Service Center so they are on the same page! Hopefully at least that part can be resolved.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; I'm guessing that the _spiral of the thread_, and the flatness of the apex, precludes any blade from dropping into a trough once the nut forces the blade into a perpendicular relationship with the arbor In effect the thickness of the blade is actually resting on a series of positions along the thread rather than one specific relationship.
If one had lots of light, a macro lens, and no 'honey do list', one could actually do some research on this...


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Mike; I'm guessing that the _spiral of the thread_, and the flatness of the apex, precludes any blade from dropping into a trough once the nut forces the blade into a perpendicular relationship with the arbor In effect the thickness of the blade is actually resting on a series of positions along the thread rather than one specific relationship.
> If one had lots of light, a macro lens, and no 'honey do list', one could actually do some research on this...


I'm so far behind on "that" list right now! LOL. These long hours, rotating shifts, trying to sleep... getting to me I think. This week I have both swing and days mixed in my schedule.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> ...These long hours, rotating shifts, trying to sleep... getting to me I think. This week I have both swing and days mixed in my schedule.


That'll make an old man out of you quick. Not a good idea to keep that kind of schedule up for long.

GCG


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## jolly1 (May 22, 2009)

*GTS 10XC UK/European version of 4100*

Hi,
I have the european version of the 4100 called GTS10XC. The smooth section of the arbor is 5/8 inch, but the threaded section is just slightly less I think it is a 15mm thread. It is quite fine.
blade sizearbor is 30 mm. The inner washer/spacer has a step machined into to accept the 30 mm blade arbor.

4100 has a much coarser thread with the thread peaks machined flat. I purchased the shaft for 4100 and installed it into the GTS10XC. Which permits me to now use a dado set.

If a dado set was used with european shaft, the threaded section would not centre the blades due to it being slightly less than 5/8

John


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