# Need advice leveling router table base plate...



## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Hey gang,

Ugg...still don't have 10 posts. I have a youtube video that is 3 mins. long explaining what I'm facing. 

It's a Benchdog Pro Cast iron top and Benchdog Pro Plate 1 Large and I'm on my second plate and one corner always seem proud, just slightly. It's the out-feed side so that's good. 

I searched here and there's one thread from back in 2009 and it wasn't the cast iron setup like mine. This top has 3.5mm set screws...the plate rest upon all these set screws.

I think I'm at 8 or 9 posts so soon I will post my youtube video. Do I use video bbc tags or youtube bbc tags or does the forum just auto insert with the youtube URL?

Thanks,
Roy


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

you could post the text of the url using two : like this http::

Then we would have a clue.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

It takes patience because on that table you're working from the bottom. I found using a straight edge on the edge of the insert and getting it pretty closely aligned on one side or the other, or the tip or bottom gives you a starting point. Then it is a matter of bringing the other side up. The final adjustment is done with half and quarter turns of the screws underneath the table. You just have to sneak up on it until the insert is the right height and doesn't rock at all. I had to deal with the same process a few years ago and it wasn't much fun.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

is the table flat???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> is the table flat???


It would have to be pretty badly distorted to not be able to make the four corners meet their objectives using the setscrew adjusters(?).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> It would have to be pretty badly distorted to not be able to make the four corners meet their objectives using the setscrew adjusters(?).


it is a cast and ground table...
I'd start w/ verifying flat everything and a uniform (or near uniform) plate rabbet..
verify the plate being flat w/ and w/o the router mounted to it... it could be getting torqued out of flatness when the router is mounted to it...


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> is the table flat???


I was thinking this myself. This is the second plate as as trival as it may sound, it's easier said than done to check a plate like this for uniform uniform geometry. Also, the inlay are of the cast iron table top shouldn't be the problem...it could be far from flat because all the leveling set screws would compensate. Where the issue may be coming into play is the top of the table. Is it flat? I'll try and check with some light and straight edges. 

I will post the video soon.

Thank you.
-Roy


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> it is a cast and ground table...
> I'd start w/ verifying flat everything and a uniform (or near uniform) plate rabbet..
> verify the plate being flat w/ and w/o the router mounted to it... it could be getting torqued out of flatness when the router is mounted to it...


I was careful to not tighten the two opposing corner anchor screws until there was complete support of all supporting leveling set screws. Hopefully I'm not damaging the plate?

Thanks,
-Roy


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

niswanger said:


> I was careful to not tighten the two opposing corner anchor screws until there was complete support of all supporting leveling set screws. Hopefully I'm not damaging the plate?
> 
> Thanks,
> -Roy


try leveling the plate w/o the router mounted to the plate....


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> try leveling the plate w/o the router mounted to the plate....


Yes, this was my procedure, for both plates.

Here's the video (take out the spaces): https : // youtu.be/4N8IYYKYm4g 

The forum is still reporting that I need to have at least 10 posts...I think I'm at 13 total now so not sure what's going on here?

-Roy


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

forgot to mention...
try the plate upside down also...


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> forgot to mention...
> try the plate upside down also...


That's a fab idea because then if the plate is warped then it would be slightly proud at the in-feed (front, away from fence) corner 

Here's the video (take out the spaces): https : // youtu.be/4N8IYYKYm4g 

Thanks,
-Roy


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

niswanger said:


> That's a fab idea because then if the plate is warped then it would be slightly proud at the in-feed (front, away from fence) corner
> 
> Here's the video (take out the spaces): https : // youtu.be/4N8IYYKYm4g
> 
> ...


you have 11 posts .. you can posts links now...
can you post links to your specific top and plate???

besides up side down rotate the plate 180°.. 
do face up and face down...






how thick is that pale???


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Plate is 1/4" thick.

I have the 40-300 setup: ProMax-RT Products

Here's the plate: 40-123 Large 1 ProPlate: Bench Dog Products: Pro-Plate

Note it says the router table is machine ground to w/in 0.008" 

Thanks,
Roy


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Quick update: 

Attached is a quick sketch of my table insert area. The black dots are the set/leveling screws (that have 10mm nuts on the underside to lock the position). The top left and bottom right corners have two set screws because these are the corners have have insert plate fixing screws. I can't turn the plate over and to a real test which would involve using the plate fixing screws. I almost got it once...then messed with it again and it's back to misbehaving. This is the second plate and it's hard to test if it's truly flat but I believe it to be enough off (the plate) to be causing my issue. The bottom left corner is still proud and that's with a very true edge on the in-feed side (meaning the plate is exactly level with the table). The top left corner is very very slightly proud of the table. If I adjust this corner down (plate) then when I tighten the fixing screw in that corner it wants to raise the bottom left even more.

We'll see what #3 brings and if it's the more of the same then I will pick the best of the two I will have (first one already went back to amazon).

I can't really find any how to's or best practices for my setup. My thinking here is that I start with all leveling screws a good bit down where the insert plate rests far below the table surface. Then working only the corners come up to level. Then using the to fixing screws anchor the plate and then by feel bring all other screws up to touching the place and then lock all in place.

Thanks,
Roy


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Roy; I have no experience with that plate, but intuitively, following your game plan, _I'd avoid adjusting the screws in any diagonal pattern._ Maybe do the back two then the front two(?).
Adjust them in pairs. If you're working from below, try placing something large and flat over the whole plate and onto the table on all sides, then place something heavy on top of that. Now you'll know when you adjust upwards when you hit level.
Maybe push upwards with your hand till it's tight evenly then do the levelling screws up till they just kiss the underside of the plate. Same for the fixing screws.
Worth a try?


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Roy; I have no experience with that plate, but intuitively, following your game plan, _I'd avoid adjusting the screws in any diagonal pattern._ Maybe do the back two then the front two(?).
> Adjust them in pairs. If you're working from below, try placing something large and flat over the whole plate and onto the table on all sides, then place something heavy on top of that. Now you'll know when you adjust upwards when you hit level.
> Maybe push upwards with your hand till it's tight evenly then do the levelling screws up till they just kiss the underside of the plate. Same for the fixing screws.
> Worth a try?


Thank you for the advice. I tried this way as well and it resulted in the same behavior. I now have it just about spot-on but it's not done so in a right manner, at least in my mind.

Here's how I did it: Once I'm close to where it needs to be, I tap/push all around the perimeter of the insert plate. This should result in no movement, meaning the plate is "fully supported". Correct? Well when I achieve this and then tighten the two opposing corner fixing screws the out-feed lower left corner raises. So then I adjusted such that there was a bit, of wobble (very very slight and I forgot the wobble pattern) and then when I tighten the fixing screws it was just about perfect and then with the added weight of the router base and router it was 99% there. I then (with the router mounted), brought up all remaining leveling screws to where they just kissed the plate and locked them all in with the locking nuts.

I'm to receive the 3rd replacement plate and I'm not sure if I want to take this second one out, even with all leveling screws locked. But if I don't, I am thinking about using some wet/dry 800 and my Bosch palm random action/orbital and running over it all lightly to bring down all AL areas that are proud (keep the sander lightly resting flat on the iron table at all times) and then using my DA buffer and a grey abrasive pad to smooth it all out and then wax the whole surface with my paste carnuba. I don't really care about looks as much as I do performance.

-Roy


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Can you vericy that what the top is sitting on is flat..? Is it only supported at the edges or are there supports in the middle...?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Can you vericy that what the top is sitting on is flat..? Is it only supported at the edges or are there supports in the middle...?


I still suspect the table...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@niswanger
Roy
Seems to me that your trouble starts when you install the "fixing screws" which are adjacent to the corner you are having issues with.

From looking at your table manual, you've got 10 leveling screws: 2 each top left/ bottom right, 1 each top right/bottom left, 1 each on the top, bottom, right left.

If you were using only 4 leveling screws (one at each corner), it would certainly be a lot easier, but..... two of the corners are using two leveling screws - that means they'v got to be perfect or the plate will cantilever on the one that is higher.

Secondly, the locking nuts are designed to hold the position of the leveling screws (if you can stop the leveling screws from spinning as you lock the nuts - the manual shows a hex key for this.)

Lastly, if you say you got the plate at about 99% level, and only goes out of level when installing the "fixing screws" that tells me that the fixing screws are distorting the plate - perhaps too tight.

My question: are the fixing screws necessary (I would think that the weight of the router should keep that plate in place)

My suggestion is to level the plate, hang your router and see what you've got - if no corner is proud then the screws are the culprit. If that is the case, decide if the fixing screws are necessary.
If you think they are necessary, then set them in place and as long as they are below the surface of the plate, don't snug them up.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm with Stick on suspecting the table. 3 distorted plates? I doubt that. Do you have a long, reliable straight edge? Run it top, middle and bottom of the table without the plate in it. Then diagonal. Use a feeler gauge underneath it at different spots. Run the straight edge across the top and bottom of the opening, then diagonally across it, then vertically. Mark any low spots with chalk. Make sure your straight edge is really straight, some are not. If you have any low spots, then you likely also have a high spots, which will also mess you up. To find a high spot, note as you move the straight edge if one end starts to rise. If the table itself isn't flat, or has even minor rises or depression, particularly at the edge of the plate opening, you will never get the plate flat. Straight plate, crooked table, no deal. I have no idea how you'd flatten a table made of ply or with a laminate if it was more than a fraction off.

I am a fan of trusses under the table, or at least several thicknesses of very flat MDF. And if the MDF has gotten wet, or was carelessly stored, it is not flat anymore. My thoughts anyhow.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> I'm with Stick *on suspecting the table. 3 distorted plates? I doubt that.* Do you have a long, reliable straight edge? Run it top, middle and bottom of the table without the plate in it. Then diagonal. Use a feeler gauge underneath it at different spots. Run the straight edge across the top and bottom of the opening, then diagonally across it, then vertically. Mark any low spots with chalk. Make sure your straight edge is really straight, some are not. If you have any low spots, then you likely also have a high spots, which will also mess you up. To find a high spot, note as you move the straight edge if one end starts to rise. If the table itself isn't flat, or has even minor rises or depression, particularly at the edge of the plate opening, you will never get the plate flat. Straight plate, crooked table, no deal. * I have no idea how you'd flatten a table made of ply or with a laminate if it was more than a fraction off.*
> 
> I am a fan of *trusses under the table*, or at least *several thicknesses of very flat MDF. * And if the MDF has gotten wet, or was carelessly stored, it is not flat anymore. My thoughts anyhow.


if the plates were sheared to size and then edge dressed...
finding a ''flat'' plate will be difficult...

trusses...
excellent move...

why MDF anything...
MDF is a second cousin to cardboard. It's wood pulp and resin....

flatten ply...
anchored torsion box grid and shims and bodied expandable adhesive like PL Premium......


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## niswanger (Jan 7, 2016)

Folks, really appreciate all the help/support on this forum! I was unable to receive the 3rd plate due to policy on their end. Here's what I concluded: Roughly 50% user error (I got better after trial and error on the 10 set screws), 25% table flatness (I believe the table at that corner is every so slightly low (better than being a smidgen proud), 25% insert plate not true (I'm wondering if that 5/8" diameter hole I popped through the plate using a metal hole saw caused some distortion?).

In the end, I'm satisfied...there's absolutely no hang ups on any normal from right to left feeding of stock. That trouble corner was high by only the thickness of a few sheets of paper and because I used a block and 800, then 1000 wet/dry, it's perfect. It's so slight that none of the anodized coating wore through to bare AL, so it's not much taken down. 

It's all ready for service.

Thank you,
Roy


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