# Collet Extensions



## A T FEHR (Jan 2, 2009)

I am still learning my way around this forum . My cedar lined hope chest is nearing the finishing stage. Collet extensions are they sturdy, do they keep the bit centered or is there allot of runout. On one of my router tables I think an extension would make the table more user friendly. When I figure out how to post pictures I will do it


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI A T FEHR

Some don't like them but I sure do and they do run true 

Here's the one I recommend ,, I would suggest you get both 

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/router_collet.html
do go the extra step and get the wrenchs if you buy the extensions ..


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A T FEHR said:


> I am still learning my way around this forum . My cedar lined hope chest is nearing the finishing stage. Collet extensions are they sturdy, do they keep the bit centered or is there allot of runout. On one of my router tables I think an extension would make the table more user friendly. When I figure out how to post pictures I will do it


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## scotirish10 (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks Bob, I was looking for one in 1/2".


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I am one of those who considers that collet extensions are only for occasional use when that extra depth is required, as was needed when I routed the box shown from solid wood.
It sounds to me like the router isn't correctly mounted if it's reducing the depth of cut to the extent that you feel an extension is required.


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Use a router that plunges through the base and collet extensions are unneccesary!!
Derek.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Derek

They are necessary for many router jobs, here's just one of many, I use the router table 90% of the time.. 

Many like to pull the bit up to high out of the collet and that is not safe way.

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"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator

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derek willis said:


> Use a router that plunges through the base and collet extensions are unneccesary!!
> Derek.


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## moreorles2000 (Dec 26, 2004)

bob
if one decides to purchase a collet extension are some better than others & what should i look for to make sure it is a good one. (canadian) i want to work safe.
les.


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

Hardly neccessary when you can do this.
Derek.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

moreorles2000 said:


> bob
> if one decides to purchase a collet extension are some better than others & what should i look for to make sure it is a good one. (canadian) i want to work safe.
> les.


This is the best one made and I have 3 or 4 different ones. No run out at all, not to long, but long enough for above table without using a bent wrench. Perfect 5 stars on amazon. I use it on my Oak Park table with Milwaukee 3 1/4hp set up.

It is the *Router Technologies EX 2080 Xtreme Xtension* Professional Router Bit/Collet Extension:

http://www.amazon.com/Router-Technologies-EX-2080-Professional/dp/B000EXQ2FA

More info:

http://www.routertechnologies.com/extreme extension.htm


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

I have one like the one you posted... I don't recommend it, it's not make true or to say in balance the Allen set screw puts in out of bal.at high speed plus it has a flat top that will hit the brass guides, the collet sometimes needs to go into the brass guides to get max lift..not to say anything about not using the brass guides..plus it's a real PITA getting the bit out of that one..it puts a little nick on the shaft..when you crank it down.. 2 stars out of 5 stars for me on that one.. 

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Note to Derek

Many routers don't lift the collet that high, why buy a new router to get around the error..most routers lift the collet just pass the base of the router and once it's in the router table you lose a 1/4" to 1/2" of the lift..right off the bat 

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nickao65 said:


> This is the best one made and I have 3 or 4 different ones. No run out at all, not to long, but long enough for above table without using a bent wrench. Perfect 5 stars on amazon. I use it on my Oak Park table with Milwaukee 3 1/4hp set up.
> 
> It is the *Router Technologies EX 2080 Xtreme Xtension* Professional Router Bit/Collet Extension:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Router-Technologies-EX-2080-Professional/dp/B000EXQ2FA


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Say what?

You must have received a faulty one becasue mine has a run out that is barely measurable at all.

Bob look at all those Amazon reviews is not that a hint that you may have received a defective one. I have used this on two different tables and never had on problem. 

I think you got a lemon.

It is perfectly in balance doesn't yours have a drilled out portion on the opposite side ? That makes the balance perfect!

And you have to have a different one you must, becasue no knick at all on the bits, the screw squeezes the collet and the hex screw is on the side and no where near the collet, no marks on any of my bits at all.

You either got an old model or you are mixing up units becasue I have none of those issues at all.

I do know of one where the hex screw actually dimpled the collets, but that is not the Extreme Extension at least not in this iteration of it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nick

Must be more than one lemon out on the market place,, see the other posted items on this type, on this forum..  I can't tell you where it is on the forum, but it was in 2006 or 2007 ...maybe they fixed the error with it since then..

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nickao65 said:


> Say what?
> 
> You must have received a faulty one becasue mine has a run out that is barely measurable at all.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I know there was another type, but I do not think it was the Xtreme Extension. The other one I had before my fire had no drilling on the opposite side of the collet to even out the weight and it also used the screw to actually hold the bit. I can not remember the name of it.

With the Xtreme I got a few months ago the screw just squeezes the collet from the side. 

I have the MLCS and that thing is WAY to long, oh my gosh I could not even get the router plate in it sat an inch high at the lowest router height setting . 

I am not sure, but maybe that MLCS is for a router with a very short stroke to begin with, maybe it would work on my DeWalt 625 or possibly for hand held. I do not think I would use this for hand held though. Plus it really does not make changing the bits any faster at all.

I love this little hex head screw, the bit changes above the Oak park table is great. I have never taken the plate out since I have been using it.

If someone router has bad run out to begin woth something like this may amplify the effect.

Have you seen the collet replacements? They do not fit in the existing router at all and just replace the collet completely. I may try one of those to.

http://www.woodpeck.com/quickchuck.html

It seems to me it should eliminate the potential run out issues and it looks like the same side grip and collet squeeze method the Xtreme Xtension uses. Of course I they do not make one for the router I want it for.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, that dovetail bit sticking out of your table looks very dangerous to me. I'm sure there are safer ways to make dovetails and without the use of collet extensions which can be likened to electrical connections, the more there are, the more chance of a problem.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That is not unsafe. I believe all router bits stick up from the table.  That looks like the MLCS extension and is SUPER long I could not even use mine, just to long.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

The dovetails fixtures you posted are both blind dovetail setups,,the one you see in my post is for Through dovetails, it's safe because you hands are on the fixture all the time and no where near the bit, it's the same with most jobs done on the router table the bit must stick up and out of the table.

I guess you could call it , a jig with a built it push block.. the safe way to use the router table..

I do like the through dovetails over the blind type, so easy to setup just cut the parts to fit the box hole and put the dovetails in place..plus they are so much Stronger than the blind type, plus the drawer/box can be made with two bits for both ends on the drawer...and one setup..

" collet extensions " we have had a round or two about them in the pass, they are great for the router table I have not use them in the plunge router like you have and I would say that can be dangerous and must be done with great care..

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harrysin said:


> Bj, that dovetail bit sticking out of your table looks very dangerous to me. I'm sure there are safer ways to make dovetails and without the use of collet extensions which can be likened to electrical connections, the more there are, the more chance of a problem.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

As you can see there are divided views on using extensions and even on the types. I think all will agree you are best off when you do not need to use one. There are situations where you have to have one to get the job done, either because or the router/table combination or depth of cut. If you can find a bit that is long enough to do the job without an extension I feel that is a better way to go. I do not think anyone will disagree with that.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Once again Mike we are in perfect agreement so the thread can be closed!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

It sounds like a PTA meeting to me 
" thread can be closed! " ????? say what ????


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harrysin said:


> Once again Mike we are in perfect agreement so the thread can be closed!


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

why close this thread??? lots of us are gaining valuable knowledge from this! we even as novices can weed through the talk and the truely knowledgeable! why close a thread because people disagree? we see people here post that know what they are talking about and we see posts where people think they know it all, we can decipher the difference. if it werent for discussions like this, how would we ever get the best of differing points of view? from a novices point of view,


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Right On levon

And that's what it's all about,, 

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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A healthy exchange of ideas is what the forums are for. There are many points of view on different subjects. Everyone should be respectful if they disagree with another member. This thread is very educational for new members and both sides of the issue have made their case. Questions are sure to come up so there is no reason to close the thread.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Levon, Bj, the little exclamation mark (!) at the end was intended to indicate that it was said tongue in cheek. I thought that by now everyone was used to my sometimes offbeat sense of humour.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

I didn't know that .. 

*exclamation point*

  –noun 1. the sign (!) used in writing after an exclamation. 2. this mark sometimes used in writing two or more times in succession to indicate intensity of emotion, loudness, etc.: Long live the Queen!! 3. this mark sometimes used without accompanying words in writing direct discourse to indicate a speaker's dumbfounded astonishment: “His wife just gave birth to quintuplets.” (!) 
Also called exclamation mark.

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harrysin said:


> Levon, Bj, the little exclamation mark (!) at the end was intended to indicate that it was said tongue in cheek. I thought that by now everyone was used to my sometimes offbeat sense of humour.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am looking at my collet extensions and really only the ones that actually screw on and replace the original collet are marked for hand held use.

In other words most collet extensions are for table use. I tend to agree especially with that super long MLCS. On a hand held it is sure to amplify any out of round the original router may have.

I see a need for an extension on certain routers for certain hand held functions and I do see a need for the collets that allow for a faster bit removal. Most quick bit removal screw on collets do add a little length.

Any comments on the safety of these extensions for hand held use, especially since 4 out of 4 of mine are marked for table use only.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nickao65 said:


> I am looking at my collet extensions and really only the ones that actually screw on and replace the original collet are marked for hand held use.
> 
> In other words most collet extensions are for table use. I tend to agree especially with that super long MLCS. On a hand held it is sure to amplify any out of round the original router may have.
> 
> ...


This is my expensive CMT xtension, made in Italy, I'm told as good as they get. I use it hand held with perfect safety for occasional use only. Whilst it locks into the router's collet exactly the same as a cutter does, and the cutter locks into the xtension no different to the router's collet, as I tried to explain in an earlier post, as with electrical connections, the more joins (plugs and sockets) the more there is potential for problems.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Harry I have that exact one and somewhere in my original paper work it said for table use only. Did you have that disclaimer in your purchase package? Possibly they revised the instructions or the design of the collet since I got mine?

Here is a good price on that one for 39.95:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P4NQCK

It just went on sale last night with free shipping.

This one below is still my favorite of the four I have, but I do not think it will work hand held as well as the thinner CMT and MLCS:

http://www.amazon.com/Router-Technologies-EX-2080-Professional/dp/B000EXQ2FA/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Guys

Just more show and tell 
see below
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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I think that smaller thinner one like the CMT may be okay for hand held use. I will be testing out the newest one I have that replaces the existing collet instead of fitting within the existing collet. I'll post how it works out.

Any word on the instructions referring to restrictions on hand held or table use on those Bob?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

The smaller thinner one ,is for 1/4" shank bits the other one is for 1/2" shank bits.
restrictions , yes for router table only 
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MLCS
From Wood Magazine's Shop Proven Products 

"Bit won't go high enough? Extend it."
Sometimes, especially with my table mounted plunge router, the combination of the router's limited plunge depth, the table insert's thickness, and a short shanked router bit cause me to tempt fate by pulling the bit farther out of the collet than I like, creating a safety hazard. It is for such situations that MLCS sells the Router Collet Extension...
...it installs just like a router bit. Once it's mounted, you insert your bit into the collet, tighten it as you normally would (you'll need a 1-1/16" open or adjustable end wrench), and begin routing.
I measured .006" of runout (wobble), but detected no increase in vibration or chatter when routing red oak (the router itself contributed less than .001" of runout). As a bonus, with the Router Collet Extension installed, I found it was easy to change bits from above the table.
A few words of caution: extending your router's collet puts extra stress on the tool and its bearings, so take multiple passes on stock, especially with large diameter bits (MLCS recommends using bits no larger than 3-1/2"). "



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nickao65 said:


> I think that smaller thinner one like the CMT may be okay for hand held use. I will be testing out the newest one I have that replaces the existing collet instead of fitting within the existing collet. I'll post how it works out.
> 
> Any word on the instructions referring to restrictions on hand held or table use on those Bob?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Doesn't the larger one take an insert for 1/4" bits too? Table use, thats what I thought. 

Looking at the CMT the info on the internet does reference hand held use, kind of.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

hi NIck

It can but I don't use it 
I have a full set of inserts from 1/8" to 1/2 plus the 5/16 and the 3/8 plus the metric stuff ,, Harry wiil like to hear that...I'm sure 


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nickao65 said:


> Doesn't the larger one take an insert for 1/4" bits too? Table use, thats what I thought.
> 
> Looking at the CMT the info on the internet does reference hand held use, kind of.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nickao65 said:


> Harry I have that exact one and somewhere in my original paper work it said for table use only. Did you have that disclaimer in your purchase package? Possibly they revised the instructions or the design of the collet since I got mine?
> 
> Here is a good price on that one for 39.95:
> 
> ...


Because I've had it six or seven years I don't recall the exact cost but it was around the $A100.00 mark. There was no disclaimer and I don't see why there should have been for the reasons I've given.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I get your reasoning harry and am not dismissing it, I was just wondering. As I said before all of mine and it seems most if not all of Bob's say for table use only. 

I think your reasons are as much a case for not using it hand held as they are for using them hand held though, more connections adding to the problem etc. I also wonder if the manufacturers are just covering their rear ends by stating the "for table use only" with the ext collets.

I think the replacement collets(the ones that do not go in the existing collet) seem to address the added connection issue while adding to the length of the plunge and some even add quick bit change eliminating the wrenches after the first use.

I think it is worth the discussion to figure out the best and safest model for the people who may be buying new. They all are similar in price and function and several new models have gone on the market in the last few years. On sale the CMT is the least expensive right now by far, probably because its been around awhile. 

Since you get good results with the CMT it may be the best deal for someone purchasing soon and not caring about having to use a wrench for bit changes. That 39.00 and free shipping is an awfully good price.

The Model not slipping into the existing collet is at the link below:

http://www.woodpeck.com/quickchuck.html


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nickao65 said:


> I get your reasoning harry and am not dismissing it, I was just wondering. As I said before all of mine and it seems most if not all of Bob's say for table use only.
> 
> I think your reasons are as much a case for not using it hand held as they are for using them hand held though, more connections adding to the problem etc. I also wonder if the manufacturers are just covering their rear ends by stating the "for table use only" with the ext collets.
> 
> ...


"and not caring about having to use a wrench for bit changes."

You have me puzzled here, two wrenches are required and I forgot to mention that I couldn't buy a 27mm one so I ended up making one.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well on the newer ones you use a little allen key(5/32 hex key), no wrenches at all.

It squeezes the sides compressing the collet , the Allen screw does not touch the bit. And on the opposite side there is a drilled hole to balance the subtracted weight from the screw area. They make them in both the type that slide in the existing collet and the type that screw on instead of the existing collet. I just love mine.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

the tools for the job 

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harrysin said:


> "and not caring about having to use a wrench for bit changes."
> 
> You have me puzzled here, two wrenches are required and I forgot to mention that I couldn't buy a 27mm one so I ended up making one.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I don't use mechanical extensions. A couple of spritzes of Routagra (in the purple bottle), and my router is good to go for up to 36 hours.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Ralph it took me a minute to get that, REAL FUNNY!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nickao65 said:


> Well on the newer ones you use a little allen key(5/32 hex key), no wrenches at all.
> 
> It squeezes the sides compressing the collet , the Allen screw does not touch the bit. And on the opposite side there is a drilled hole to balance the subtracted weight from the screw area. They make them in both the type that slide in the existing collet and the type that screw on instead of the existing collet. I just love mine.


Your photo appears to show a 1/4" shank cutter in a reducer sleeve, with a 1/2" shank cutter wouldn't the grub screw touch the cutter's shank. To my mind a grub screw pressing a single point on the sleeve can't be as secure as a tapered collet giving even pressure around the shank. Perhaps one or two of our engineering members will hop in here.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

I'm NOT a engineer but that's why I don't use the reducer sleeve in my Collet Extensions,, the reducer sleeve I have all have a split down the long side..I do use them from time to time but with great care....the split must be in the right spot from the get go...  even with a standard collet setup.


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harrysin said:


> Your photo appears to show a 1/4" shank cutter in a reducer sleeve, with a 1/2" shank cutter wouldn't the grub screw touch the cutter's shank. To my mind a grub screw pressing a single point on the sleeve can't be as secure as a tapered collet giving even pressure around the shank. Perhaps one or two of our engineering members will hop in here.


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