# FineLineAutomation.com versus CNCParts.com



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys , I suspect some of you are familiar with both these companies. The price for the 4'x4' seems better at FLA compaired to CNCrouterparts , and the gantry system looks sturdier to me from FLA . I have been reading about complaints regarding customer service at FLA , mostly regerding not being able to contact easily . 
I was debating to start by collecting parts for the future , mostly the hardware for now . 
Also looked at JoesCNC.com , and it's also an option . 

$4,100 for this from CNCrouterparts 
PRO4848 4' x 4' CNC 

Router Kit | CNCRouterParts


As opposed to $2,175 from FLA 
https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/4-x-4-cnc-router?taxon_id=2

Check out the bearing system for the gantry at 46:40 . Looks sturdier than the one from CNC


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Get hold of beltramidave. He's got most, if not all, of your answers. He just ordered a new frame after doing tons of research on various companies.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick, our CNC frame came from FLA though ours is the Saturn Pro model. I just offer that fwiw that going with FLA worked out just fine for us.

David


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Rick,

As stated by HJ, I just ordered a FLA Saturn 4x4, but have not received it yet as Nate is working on some modifications based on some issues with earlier machines. I am ok with waiting a little longer for this reason and so far have had satisfactory dialog with Nate.

First of all, I don't think you can accurately compare the CNCRouter Parts Pro line with the standard FLA machines. In my opinion, the CNCRouter Parts Pro machine is by far superior and if not for the difference in price and that the FLA Saturn machine comes fully assembled (with free shipping), I probably would have went with the CNCRouter Parts Pro4848.

As HJ has said, I have done a lot of research on this. The first thing you must realize, that these are kits and will still require quite a bit of work to get going as you still need electronics and machine software. If you are not comfortable with this, then I would recommend looking at the Probotix machines. I have lots of experience with these (Probotix) machines and they offer the most bang for your buck and they come to you ready to run, including plug and play electronics and computer with machine software already loaded and configured. There are several people on this forum, including HJ who can verify this.

Hope this helps.

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thanks for the replies all . Dave I'm very comfortable building one , and don't want a complete machine . I really like Nates video ,as I prefer that to instructions.
CNCrouterparts is going to be less shipping wise I suspect , as FLA is a lot further east . 
I thought where the gantry rolls on the sides of the rails looked much heavy dutier than the pro model from CNCrouterparts ? 
But I have seen a post where the guys bearing were digging into the side steel plate .
I'll have to try and find Scott Arts pics of his build again to compare the gantries . 

I realize the kit is just the beginning, but I thought I'd do this in steps . Build a stand , build the hardware , then as money permits , add the electronics and air cooled spindle.

I know if I don't get the ball rolling and do this in steps , that I will never own one


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

If you look at the FLA Saturn series machines, there current pricing reflects free shipping. If you are comfortable with a kit, and are thinking FLA, then I would have a hard look at the Saturn series machines instead.

https://www.finelineautomation.com/t/saturn-series-cnc-machines

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> If you look at the FLA Saturn series machines, there current pricing reflects free shipping. If you are comfortable with a kit, and are thinking FLA, then I would have a hard look at the Saturn series machines instead.
> 
> https://www.finelineautomation.com/t/saturn-series-cnc-machines
> 
> Dave


Was just looking at the Saturn in a 4/4 size . Pretty impressive imo . 
I'd have to see what the cost of shipping is from Spokane Washington to my place


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> If you look at the FLA Saturn series machines, there current pricing reflects free shipping. If you are comfortable with a kit, and are thinking FLA, then I would have a hard look at the Saturn series machines instead.
> 
> https://www.finelineautomation.com/t/saturn-series-cnc-machines
> 
> Dave


Well Dave that's a good point , as there's a FedEx place in Kalispell. That's not far from me ,like 226km .
I should find out the weight and size and ask FedEx for a quote to get it from there to our office . Wish I renewed my dang passport


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

I believe they are around 700lbs. I can let you know when I get mine. Have you seen this build thread? New Machine Build Saturn 4 X 4 build

Better get that passport applied for. That would be a beautiful drive!

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> I believe they are around 700lbs. I can let you know when I get mine. Have you seen this build thread? New Machine Build Saturn 4 X 4 build
> 
> Better get that passport applied for. That would be a beautiful drive!
> 
> Dave


Thanks for the link 
I'll check with our local FedEx and get a price . 

Guys complaining about 100 ipm not working well on corners . Not sure what material he's cutting though , I think it may be MDF . Gotta read threw that thread tonight


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I think his issue is more a setting problem than anything else.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

@Raiman 2.0: Rick, how far would the cost of either of those machine compare to the cost of insulating your shop? Just thinking.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Shop guy said:


> @Raiman 2.0: Rick, how far would the cost of either of those machine compare to the cost of insulating your shop? Just thinking.


Dang , I dun near forget about the insulation issue


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I better get a passport soon. Went to our local FedEx terminal , and it's $1.500 to get it shipped that last couple of kilometres . Not including the exchange rate of 74 cents on the dollar , the 14 percent tax, and lastly the duty


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Dang , I dun near forget about the insulation issue


Rick - get the CNC that you want - you don't need insulation, you could always put on more clothes


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Vince , been there done that . Us Canucks don't need no stinking manuals or insulation:lol:


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## Scottart (Jan 8, 2015)

Excited for you. As you know I am a CNCRPts fan.... mine has been a brute, and runs continuously. The few issues have been with one electronic switch which they promptly upgraded and shipped no charge. Amazing support. Get the border guards drunk and sneak it in...


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## Fasteddie58 (May 18, 2014)

I bought the FLA Saturn 4x4 in December. It is well built and made from quality components. The steel is very heavy and nicely welded, the power coating is not the greatest but its a machine and paint quality is better than some of the import tools I have bought in the past. It comes on a well made pallet with a heavy duty cardboard, waterproof cover. These are ready to go once you install the electronics. I do not have mine going yet, undecided on which electronics to use, what software I will use too Mach 4 or Linux CNC. I believe the owner of FLA is slow to respond to emails and voice mail. I do think he means well and is busy building and shipping the machines. He needs to do a better job with communicating with customers especially regarding shipping. I would recommend either size Saturn machine, a good value now especially with free shipping. I rented a F250 flatbed truck from Home Depot and 4x4 fit perfectly in the bed. Truck bed is a little hi to unload, I removed the box cover and used an engine hoist to unload. This is a heavy and rigid machine.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Edward that's for the heads up . When you say you haven't installed the electronics , I was wondering if that means it doesn't have the stepper motors installed yet either ? 
Are you going with the Nema 34 series?

I have a trailer to transport it , and your right , seeing as I believe it's over 700 pounds , it would be a tad heavy to remove from a truck bed alright.

I was going to buy extruded aluminum and build one from scratch , but for the price and the Saturns rugged looking design ,I'd sooner just purchace the Saturn . 
That gantry certainly looks impressive in the picture


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The gantry has now been upgraded to an all steel tube like the frame only much larger, Rick, so it's even stronger than before. I don't know how many he still has on hand that have the 8020 aluminum extrusions or when the steel model will begin shipping, though.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Eddie,
I have Linux for my Probotix and rather like it. Dedicated computer and lets me go back to the exact line if I have to pick anything up after a "goof up", pause, or power failure. Also has the project available for viewing at all the axis sets, as well as an angle shot.

Get with beltramidave. He's got one coming too and going to run it with Linux from Probotix. He'll be able to give you a lot more info and insight.

I'm watching this close cause I'm looking at possible getting another machine and thinking of going with the same table with Probotix brains. Just to keep everything on the same system, and not having to try and learn a new system like Mach 4. I'm still struggling with what I've got so far. 

You can teach an old dog new tricks, just not a lot of them.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> The gantry has now been upgraded to an all steel tube like the frame only much larger, Rick, so it's even stronger than before. I don't know how many he still has on hand that have the 8020 aluminum extrusions or when the steel model will begin shipping, though.


I prefer extruded aluminum for the entire unit personally . Welding metal makes me nervous , as there's to many opportunities for the metal to warp during the welding process and end up with a machine that's not perfectly true .
Especially if the welder is a noob. Maybe if robots were doing it :|


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I prefer extruded aluminum for the entire unit personally . Welding medal makes me nervous , as there's to many opportunities for the metal to warp during the welding process and end up with a machine that's not perfectly true .
> Especially if the welder is a noob. Maybe if robots were doing it


It's stress relieved, Rick, just like the rest of the frame so it shouldn't move.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> It's stress relieved, Rick, just like the rest of the frame so it shouldn't move.


Well I'm getting stressed out for nothing 

There was some mention that he was working on the Saturn . The newly designed gantry is obviously what he's been up to


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Speaking of which , it's not a myth that he's hard to contact , at least email wise .
It's been a week and no response to my query . Hate to have an issue and need a question answered right away . I think you'd be SOL

But to tell you truth it may be for the better . After paying our 14% tax and the 26 extra cents on the dolllar right now , it would be like adding 40% tax to the purchace. That's not to mention the duty . There shouldn't be duty on an American made product , but I get charged anyways .
Everything I order from the States costs me approx double by the time the smoke clears .

I think it's back to making the Evolution CNC from Joes forum . I can source the extruded aluminum from Vancouver , and get the few neccesary machined pieces shipped over the border to me .


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

honesttjohn said:


> you can teach an old dog new tricks, just not a lot of them.


+1


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well I think I'm waiting till next year . I watched more videos on the assembly of the same CNC router table that Scott Art built , and I have to say it looks well built imo .
I was going to go with the 4/4 model , but the more I think of it , I should go with the 4/8 version and be done with it.
Going with a spindle and Nema 34 electronics put it up to $11,000 US . With the exchange and tax it's closer to 20K . If things go well I'll be able to pull it off in the future though.
Hopefully the exchange rate doesn't get worse yet

Sorry guys , in the title I meant CNCrouterparts.com , not cncparts.com

Here's my wish list 

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/pro4848-4-x-4-cnc-router-kit-p-251.html

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/plug-and-play-nema-34-cnc-control-system-p-132.html

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/22-kw-plug-and-play-spindle-vfd-system-p-353.html

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/leg-kit-pro-cnc-p-257.html

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/auto-z-and-corner-finding-touch-plate-p-288.html

And then there's the software. Aspire is a must have I'm sure :|

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/aspire-cam-software-p-210.html

I'm assuming you need Mach3 to run the system ? 

http://www.cncrouterparts.com/mach3-cnc-control-software-p-165.html


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

Here's the one beltramidave ordered and is on the way to him.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow John , what a tank! Nice to see Nates machines are always evolving . 
I'm sure I'm overthinking this , but my concern using steel is getting the sides equally aligned and square . 
I mean if one side was up more than the other by mear thousands of an inch , it could cause issues to the final outcome . 
Although I do realize you do a skim cut over the entire spoil board at the beginning so in theory it shouldn't matter I'm guessing . 
I just think by using an aluminum stand with adjustable legs , you can level things perfect for a machine that was made out of extruded aluminum also . 
Don't know if this makes and sense to you guys ? 

I could hardly imagine shipping a 4/8 Like that ,and think I would end up going with a 4/4 if I was to go that route.
He doesn't answer emails , so maybe I should phone him some time


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> It's stress relieved, Rick, just like the rest of the frame so it shouldn't move.


Well David I just spent the last few hours going threw your amazing build thread again .
Love watching it in action , and found the first video where it came to life. 
Oh what a feeling ! 

David , I'm not sure if I missed the post , but was interested in how you connected the spoil board to the steel beams on the base of the router table . 
I'm assuming you countersunk screws into the MDF . Not sure if you went all the way threw the steel rails and used bolts , or just used self tapping screws to the top surface ? 

One other question , I believe you mentioned you found your spindle on EBay . I checked CNCrouterparts.com , and holy Hanna are those spindles big bucks . I guess I forget they need support electronics .
http://www.cncrouterparts.com/22-kw-plug-and-play-spindle-vfd-system-p-353.html

I gotta say , looking at your pictures of the machine on ypir trailer , that thing is just huge considering it's a 2/4. I wonder how big the crates going to be on a 4/4? 
Maybe I'll have to put a wide load sign on my trailer . Hopefully my deck is wide enough . Guess Nates the man to ask


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Rainman,

Here is the shipping info I just received yesterday from Fed Ex on the Saturn 4x4:
Dimensions	76x63x30 in.
Total shipment weight	670 lbs / 303.91 kgs

You are correct in that it is a tank! The frame of the Saturn has predrilled and tapped holes to secure your spoilboard. Should be able to use the machine to create the bolt holes in the spoilboard. As far as the build accuracy of a steel frame, I'm guessing it is pretty close as is, but it is always going to be necessary regardless of build material to surface the spoilboard to have it exactly parallel to the gantry.

Nate can be hard to reach, but I have had pretty good luck so far. Nate said he was going to post another video of the stepper drive mechanical updates soon. I will post a link, if I see it.


Dave


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Dave,

Thanks for providing the info. The 4x4 is 76x63x30. It can be loaded with a standard forklift.

The rack and pinion drive update video should be coming shortly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well David I just spent the last few hours going threw your amazing build thread again .
> Love watching it in action , and found the first video where it came to life.
> Oh what a feeling !
> 
> ...




Regarding the connection of the spoilboard, the newer frames have 1/4-20 tapped holes every 3in on the steel beams you can screw down to any of those.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Rainman,
> 
> Here is the shipping info I just received yesterday from Fed Ex on the Saturn 4x4:
> Dimensions	76x63x30 in.
> ...


Thank you for the info Dave !


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Dave,
> 
> Thanks for providing the info. The 4x4 is 76x63x30. It can be loaded with a standard forklift.
> 
> ...


I suspect this is Nate himself ? If so , welcome to the forum Nate and thanks for posting 
Nate not sure if the free shipping goes this far west , I'm in Cranbrook British Columbia Canada(very close to the USA border) , and the closest FedEx location where I can pick it up is at 2033 US-2, Kalispell, MT 59901, USA.

My interest is in the 4'/4' Saturn


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

You can get the heavy spindle from Auto Tech in IL for $300 plus a couple hundred for the VFD. Better than routers.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Well David I just spent the last few hours going threw your amazing build thread again .
> Love watching it in action , and found the first video where it came to life.
> Oh what a feeling !
> 
> ...


I just went back and looked, Rick, and I guess I didn't post those photos - sorry.

I drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 for the main board, 3/4" MDF, and the spoilboard is screwed into that board. Here's the 'Falkner' twist, though - I used plastic screws for all of this. I figure if I hit one the bit will just slice right through it rather than destroy an expensive bit.

Here's the quickie fixture I made to ensure my drilling was perpendicular to the frame rail and spaced the same - 









And the resulting holes -









The main board is pieced so I can remove the panels close to the end in the event I want to stand a work piece up and machine the end - 









You can see the plastic screw heads in this photo -


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

^^^ thank you for the post David . In theory , could a guy not have gotten the CNC itself to drill the hole in the rails, ( or at least mark) , and save the program , change the height of drilling , and then use the CNC to again drill the holes in the MDF spoil board? 

Loving your plastic screw idea , genius! 

Guys this is looking more grim every minute . Just listening to our local radio, and all activities involving students crossing the border have been suspended because of new uncertainly in getting turned back or detained . Wish I did this before your new administration got in  

I wonder if Nate gets a better deal than I do to get these machines across the border .
FedEx wants over $1,500 to get it from there depot in Kalispal to here . Less than 150 miles ?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ^^^ thank you for the post David . In theory , could a guy not have gotten the CNC itself to drill the hole in the rails, ( or at least mark) , and save the program , change the height of drilling , and then use the CNC to again drill the holes in the MDF spoil board?
> 
> Loving your plastic screw idea , genius!
> 
> ...


I don't think so, Rick. For one thing the spindle's slowest speed is about 6,000 rpm which is way too fast for drilling a #7 hole in very hard stress relieved steel. But the biggest issue is that many of the holes are out of reach for the spindle, at least on the locations I chose. It won't get to the back frame cross member at all and won't get to the edges. But I certainly thought about it, especially after seeing that it took nearly 10 minutes per hole to drill. But that's not an issue on the new ones - Nate has predrilled and tapped holes. One of the downsides to buying a prototype... :wink:


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I suspect this is Nate himself ? If so , welcome to the forum Nate and thanks for posting
> Nate not sure if the free shipping goes this far west , I'm in Cranbrook British Columbia Canada(very close to the USA border) , and the closest FedEx location where I can pick it up is at 2033 US-2, Kalispell, MT 59901, USA.
> 
> My interest is in the 4'/4' Saturn




This is Nate. Free shipping is to anywhere in the continental US. So, if you want to ship to the Montana location you posted it would not cost you anything. If you want it delivered to Canada, what I would do is calculate shipping and subtract the US portion of the shipping from the amount. If you want a quote, just let me know.


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> ^^^ thank you for the post David . In theory , could a guy not have gotten the CNC itself to drill the hole in the rails, ( or at least mark) , and save the program , change the height of drilling , and then use the CNC to again drill the holes in the MDF spoil board?
> 
> Loving your plastic screw idea , genius!
> 
> ...



Rick,

I am not sure if I mentioned it but the new frames come with those holes already drilled. You can certainly use 1/4 – 20 nylon screws in the holes like David did.

I will check on the FedEx price to your door. I am sure that I can get it delivered cheaper than that. Also, it's exempt for duties. Found out I don't even need to fill out a nafta exemption.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Rick,
> 
> I am not sure if I mentioned it but the new frames come with those holes already drilled. You can certainly use 1/4 – 20 nylon screws in the holes like David did.
> 
> I will check on the FedEx price to your door. I am sure that I can get it delivered cheaper than that. Also, it's exempt for duties. Found out I don't even need to fill out a nafta exemption.


Thank you Nate . I will PM you with the shipping info for where I work in Cranbrook, as shipping is cheaper to a commercial establishment.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I don't think so, Rick. For one thing the spindle's slowest speed is about 6,000 rpm which is way too fast for drilling a #7 hole in very hard stress relieved steel. But the biggest issue is that many of the holes are out of reach for the spindle, at least on the locations I chose. It won't get to the back frame cross member at all and won't get to the edges. But I certainly thought about it, especially after seeing that it took nearly 10 minutes per hole to drill. But that's not an issue on the new ones - Nate has predrilled and tapped holes. One of the downsides to buying a prototype... :wink:


David , I never thought about the gantry not being able to reach the side rails. I'm having a lot of "Duh" moments .
And comparing a spindle to a drill is apples to steak lol . 
I'll catch on sooner or later


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I never thought about the gantry not being able to reach the side rails. I'm having a lot of "Duh" moments .
> And comparing a spindle to a drill is apples to steak lol .
> I'll catch on sooner or later


I'm only a proverbial day ahead of you, Rick. It's not like I've been working with a CNC router for years and years. I've had a few 'Duh' moments myself.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I'm only a proverbial day ahead of you, Rick. It's not like I've been working with a CNC router for years and years. I've had a few 'Duh' moments myself.


Well your going to be light years ahead of me , as I doubt I'll have this operational this year . 
But if I don't push the button now and at least get the mechanical parts, I doubt I'll ever own one. I have to go back and read your thread again , as I liked the construction of your stand . And I'm sure I'll be visiting your thread many times  

Maybe once I have the Saturn sitting on her stands, I'll pull the trigger and get the rest . But funds may be short , and I want to do this right . Want to go with Nema 34 steppers and electronics, plus a spindle . 
I do have a water cooler from a laser , but I'm ok with an air cooled spindle . Would be nice to know which spindle to get , so I can order the adapter from Nate while I'm at it .

David , were the steppers easy to install , and did you go with Nema 34's ?


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , were the steppers easy to install , and did you go with Nema 34's ?


Yes and yes - 637 oz. in. NEMA 34 Stepper Motors


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Yes and yes - 637 oz. in. NEMA 34 Stepper Motors


Thanks again . 
David , now I see why you assembled your own controller . CNC router parts wants almost $2600 for there plug and play system , but I looked at that link you posted and the kits are several times cheaper . Not sure of the quality though ? 
I have been playing with electronics for decades , and don't feel to intimidated by assembling one in a box as you did .
Looks like I have to read your thread from beginning to end again 

Update : After going threw your thread yet again , I gotta say that looks like very busy in there . Do they make bigger cabinets yet? I think I'm feeling lazy again


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Thanks again .
> David , now I see why you assembled your own controller . CNC router parts wants almost $2600 for there plug and play system , but I looked at that link you posted and the kits are several times cheaper . Not sure of the quality though ?
> I have been playing with electronics for decades , and don't feel to intimidated by assembling one in a box as you did .
> Looks like I have to read your thread from beginning to end again
> ...


There's definitely a lot going on inside the enclosure and it can be done with less, but if I wanted less I would have bought one ready to use. I didn't cut any corners and the components I chose are fairly robust. 

Interesting thing about the enclosure size is that I ordered a 16" x 20" (if I recall) but Amazon accidentally shipped a 20" x 24". Turns out that was the size I really needed so I kept that. Even at that size you'll see I stacked PSU's and mounted relay boards on angle brackets, etc., but it has worked just fine since I fired it up. 

One thing that is working well is the air flow through the cabinet; I check the exhaust often to see if it's blowing hot or even warm air and it's always room temp.

Holler if I can give you more info than I posted. I know I posted a lot but there may be some things I missed (like drilling and tapping the holes).

David


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick - I posted the schematic I used for my build hoping that it may help you with what is going on inside the enclosure. It's on the last page of the build (for now) - 2nd Build (first) - CNC Router. 

Hope this helps!
David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , I was up late again last night going threw your build thread . I added it to my favourites for quick access , as I'm going to be needing it . Your info is going to be invaluable, thanks again . 
Loved how you made the paper templates for guides , very smart ! 
After watching it progress I realized how overwhelming it gets . Not something I should be intimidated by though . Wish my laser wasn't broken , as I could have made all those pro looking labels . 
Would you change anything if you did it again ? 
I guess you don't really want to go with a little bit bigger enclosure yet? As I was thinking of seeing if there available in one size up , as those relay banks start taking up real estate . Guess a guy could stack things . 

I checked the link you posted for the steppers and found the controllers , and assumed you got them there to . 
But you mention you found the enclosure on Amazon .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> David , I was up late again last night going threw your build thread . I added it to my favourites for quick access , as I'm going to be needing it . Your info is going to be invaluable, thanks again .
> Loved how you made the paper templates for guides , very smart !
> After watching it progress I realized how overwhelming it gets . Not something I should be intimidated by though . Wish my laser wasn't broken , as I could have made all those pro looking labels .
> Would you change anything if you did it again ?
> ...


I'm glad it's helpful to you, Rick. Holler if I can assist. On my thread for the build I just posted a spreadsheet with links to all the components I used so that might be helpful to you, as well.


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Thank you Nate . I will PM you with the shipping info for where I work in Cranbrook, as shipping is cheaper to a commercial establishment.


Rick,

I sent you a PM with the costs and answers to your other questions.


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Rick, one other thing. The Stepper Motors David got have a 14mm shaft on them. I will need to order some custom pulleys and a hub in to support those. It wouldn't cost anything extra, but I just would want to know about it before shipment. We stock for 1/2in shaft motors.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nate , I have one more question . On your first generation Saturn , there was mention of the rack and pinion gear was not contacting the teeth 100% on the Y axis gear rack. 
I watched your update , was very impressive , but I did not see this area addressed ? 
Sorry for my terminology , as my description may make no sense to you


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Nate , I have one more question . On your first generation Saturn , there was mention of the rack and pinion gear was not contacting the teeth 100% on the Y axis gear rack.
> I watched your update , was very impressive , but I did not see this area addressed ?
> Sorry for my terminology , as my description may make no sense to you




It's been addressed. I will have another video shortly with the tests done and changes


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nate , not to sound like a hypochondriac, but with an extruded aluminum gantry , the distance is going to be consistent for the guide rails that the X axis travels on . 

With a steel gantry , your having to bolt the rails on the surface , and I'm assuming you've tapped and threaded the holes to secure the rails . 
But maintaining a consistent distance between the rails that the bearing ride on seems like it would be more prone to being inconsistent as opposed to using extruded aluminium . Especially seeing as a few thousands of an inch can be critical. 
I don't believe they can be adjusted to keep them perfectly parallel?


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Nate , not to sound like a hypochondriac, but with an extruded aluminum gantry , the distance is going to be consistent for the guide rails that the X axis travels on .
> 
> With a steel gantry , your having to bolt the rails on the surface , and I'm assuming you've tapped and threaded the holes to secure the rails .
> But maintaining a consistent distance between the rails that the bearing ride on seems like it would be more prone to being inconsistent as opposed to using extruded aluminium . Especially seeing as a few thousands of an inch can be critical.
> I don't believe they can be adjusted to keep them perfectly parallel?



Rick,

We were concerned with that initially as well when we designed the original version. The dual drive axis has the same rail in tapped bolt hole style setup. The adjustability of those rails that the gantry rides on was a concern. However, there is enough play in the clearance hole to provide a few thousands adjustment which is all we need if the machining is on target.

Honestly, the gantry is easier to machine to specs than the table frame. With the gantry, both linear rail bolt hole lines are on the same piece on the same side, so they can be machined in one shot. With the table frame, there is a precision drill/tap that needs to occur and then a complicated fixturing process before welding to ensure those 2 bolt lines remain parallel and correctly spaced.

We test everything before it goes out to ensure the axes are rolling smoothly and properly aligned. There hasn't been an issue yet.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Picked mine up today. Pictures don't do this thing justice! Make sure you bring a wide enough trailer... Didn't even think about it and the trailer I borrowed was 3 inches too narrow. Needs to be a minimum of 63" wide x 76 long.
Guessing I will have to remove the gantry to get it into my room. Going to be a little tight, but will make do. Pretty excited!

Dave


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> Picked mine up today. Pictures don't do this thing justice! Make sure you bring a wide enough trailer... Didn't even think about it and the trailer I borrowed was 3 inches too narrow. Needs to be a minimum of 63" wide x 76 long.
> Guessing I will have to remove the gantry to get it into my room. Going to be a little tight, but will make do. Pretty excited!
> 
> Dave


That just looks awesome, Dave!! Are you going to do a separate build thread?

David


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

difalkner said:


> That just looks awesome, Dave!! Are you going to do a separate build thread?
> 
> David


Doubt I will do a full build thread, but will try and post occasionally. Don't think I could compete with your build thread, though very inspiring. I am going to use Linuxcnc for my control software instead of Mach. Will take me awhile as I also have a day job...

Dave


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Glad it arrived in one piece. 

On another note, I am going to have some instructions for tightening the pinion gears up tonight. I'll post a link here when it's done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Picked mine up today. Pictures don't do this thing justice! Make sure you bring a wide enough trailer... Didn't even think about it and the trailer I borrowed was 3 inches too narrow. Needs to be a minimum of 63" wide x 76 long.
> Guessing I will have to remove the gantry to get it into my room. Going to be a little tight, but will make do. Pretty excited!
> 
> Dave


That looks just awesome Dave , and I'd say Nate nailed it . I'd be pretty excited myself if that showed up on my door step


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Apparently I can't post a URL until I have 10 posts on here. So, this is post 10. Video link to follow shortly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Here is an account of what we did with the rack and pinion. 




I should have the spindle changes done this week. Dave, your machine has the changes in it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Here is an account of what we did with the rack and pinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0TtkCAWsPM
> 
> I should have the spindle changes done this week. Dave, your machine has the changes in it.
> 
> ...


Good video and very good upgrade! Thanks, Nate.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

So these have no leadscrews like my Probotix has, which do flex. 

Dave, now you've got both. What's your opinion??


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

honesttjohn said:


> So these have no leadscrews like my Probotix has, which do flex.
> 
> 
> 
> Dave, now you've got both. What's your opinion??




No leadscrews in the Saturn. The x and y axes are rack and pinion drive and the Z-Axis is a 16mm ballscrew.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

honesttjohn said:


> So these have no leadscrews like my Probotix has, which do flex.
> 
> Dave, now you've got both. What's your opinion??


HJ,

Can't give an educated opinion until I get things operating, but rack and pinion drives are on all the "real" machines. That being said, I read somewhere that there are some advantages to acme screws on smaller machines (other than cost).

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Picked mine up today. Pictures don't do this thing justice! Make sure you bring a wide enough trailer... Didn't even think about it and the trailer I borrowed was 3 inches too narrow. Needs to be a minimum of 63" wide x 76 long.
> Guessing I will have to remove the gantry to get it into my room. Going to be a little tight, but will make do. Pretty excited!
> 
> Dave


Well temporarily removing the gantry may give a diet of a few hundred pounds making it easier to move


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Nate, I noticed the teeth on the pinion are not contacting the gear rack 100 % , and could have been moved towards the inside of the frame a bit . 
Although it looks to be contacting them over half, and obviously if you had 100% coverage you would be rubbing the steel frame unless the gear rack was spaced out a bit . 
Not a deal breaker by any means , just an observation , as I could see the pinion gear wearing out faster . 
Any idea how much replacement pinion gears would be , and could an extra set be purchaced when the machine is ordered?
I have to say you've done some great upgrades on the Saturn so far


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

This was posted by Nate on the CNC Zone forum regarding the rack:

Additional changes that are coming:
- either a spacer to move the rack out or a thicker rack. Looking at doing possibly a .75 or 1in thick rack. If we go with the thicker rack I will do a run of spacers for the current machines.
- the gear racks are currently not heat treated. All the racks in the class of machine are not heat treated. However, we are going to go to a heat treated gear rack. It will be quenched and tempered. I am looking into heat treating the pinion gear as well.

I don't have a timeline on these changes yet. Should have some more info in the next week


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thank you for the heads up Dave . My first thought was a thicker rack , but I'm no expert and not sure if it's even neccesary. 
It looks like one heck of a machine , and I'm happy to hear Nate is trying to address possible problem areas


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

@beltramidave . I was curious as to what your going to do for a router/spindle ,and electronics? 
I was going to pretty much follow what David " aka difalkner" did , go with a water cooled spindle and assemble my own electronics .
A plug and play Nema 34 system would be nice , but the learning curve wouldn't be there , and a plug and play system is out of my reach financially at this time .


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> @beltramidave . I was curious as to what your going to do for a router/spindle ,and electronics?
> I was going to pretty much follow what David " aka difalkner" did , go with a water cooled spindle and assemble my own electronics .
> A plug and play Nema 34 system would be nice , but the learning curve wouldn't be there , and a plug and play system is out of my reach financially at this time .


Rick (& HJ)
I went with the air cooled 2.2kw spindle from Automation Tech. I had no desire to mess with water and the I don't think the noise difference between water and air cooled is worth the extra parts and effort. The noise comes from the bit, regardless..

As far as electronics, I am a Ubuntu Linuxcnc software guy, mainly since that is what I learned first, and it's free and fairly easy to customize. I also don't like the idea of a Windows interface because of all the things going on behind the scenes. Using Linuxcnc does require that your PC has a parallel port.

With my work, I have access to machines that have been "scrapped" and was able to pick up some 720oz in. Nema 34 motors, so that is what I am using. I also had a spare controller and new enclosure, but it was using Nema 23 stuff, but was able to scavenge the breakout and relay boards. I had to purchase new power supplies and stepper drivers. Don't have near the amount invested as David F or a PNP Nema 34 system and I think it will work just fine.

And just an update, I just finished a bench test of my electronics/motors using Linuxcnc and everything is working as planned. Now I think I can tear my old cnc down and start making room for the new one!

Dave


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Dave - - could we also just get an operating system from Len and have a sister to the Probotix? He once told me that I could use most any table with his set up. Don't know how much "adjusting" would be required, though.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

honesttjohn said:


> Dave - - could we also just get an operating system from Len and have a sister to the Probotix? He once told me that I could use most any table with his set up. Don't know how much "adjusting" would be required, though.


John,
You could approach Len and ask, but as I have said before, there is going to be some changes both in the electronics and software setup. 
The Saturn and CNCRouterparts machines are using proximity switches versus mechanical limits switches, for one thing. There will also be scaling differences because of the different drive systems. If you can use your Nema 23 motors, you will be able to use most all of your electronic controls, but you will probably sacrifice speed and torque doing so. A bigger machine needs more powerful motors to make it worth while (in my opinion).
I am proving to you that it can be done so that you can use Linuxcnc, but it is not going to be plug and play. Of course, I may be able to help you, if work gets slow for me.
Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Dave I'm not understanding the difference between mechanical and proximity switches? 
Davids Saturn has limit switches on the end of his gantry, and one got squashed . I thought that was considered a mechanical switch?
(Edit : ok I think your referring to the Saturn from Probotix .)

Regarding water cooled spindles , I read an interesting perk regarding water cooling . 
An air cooled spindle blows air on the material, causing dust to disperse everywhere , where as a water cooled spindle doesn't .
I read this last evening at CNC zone I think it was , so I'm not sure if there's any truth to this.

I realize that in most circumstances that the noise would be generated by the bit , but I was thinking if you were doing a long drawn out 3D project , that most of the noise would end up comimg from the router as it's doing all the little detailing? 

I have a neighbor in close proximity, and would like to keep noise levels down to a minimum. My main interest is 3D pics


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

The Probotix machines have mechanical limit switches. The Saturn and CNCRouterParts machines are set up to use proximity switches (no moving parts). David F has proximity switches.

As far as air cooled vs water cooled, maybe someone else can chime in here as I don't have my spindle yet (will tomorrow), but I have been around air cooled spindles. I think it may be true what you are saying as far as air blowing at the bottom of the spindle, which isn't ideal, but it is not as bad as a standard router for sure. The nice thing about spindles vs routers is that you can slow them down and that helps with some of the dust. Still need dust collection of some sort on either.

With finish toolpaths on 3d carvings, you typically aren't taking off much material, so you can slow the spindle rpm down some to help on both noise and dust. HJ can probably give you a better idea on noise when doing 3d stuff.

Hope that helps.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

The air cooled spindle doesn't blow the chips and dust all over. It is also very quiet compared to a router. You can talk normal and even listen to the radio. The loudest noise comes from the vacuum.

Your neighbor will probably die of old age before you get one up and running anyway.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> Rick,
> 
> Your neighbor will probably die of old age before you get one up and running anyway.


There in there mid 40's , so there still may be hope :lol:


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

One thing I've read in multiple places, guys, is that on those occasions when you want to run slow - 6,000 to say 10,000 rpm - a water cooled spindle will remain cool. But if you run an air cooled spindle that slow it can't push enough air to keep itself cool. I've read that they need 15,000+ rpm to remain cool. Obviously on short runs it won't be that much of a factor.

Now I can't back that up because I don't have an air cooled spindle but it makes sense. Maybe that only applies to cheap spindles and the higher priced versions don't exhibit this trait - I don't know but I do know that I've run my spindle below 10,000 for a while and it remains cool to the touch, fwiw.

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

David , my laser uses water cooling , so I don't really find it a big deal to plumb a spindle .
Just have to remember to drain the system before winter


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Our system has RV antifreeze in it but that's more for anti-bacterial reasons since our shop is climate controlled. It also has some pure Silver in it for the same reason.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> Our system has RV antifreeze in it but that's more for anti-bacterial reasons since our shop is climate controlled. It also has some pure Silver in it for the same reason.


I was being facetious regarding freezing . My shop will be heated next winter (or I'm jumping off a bridge ) 

I'm just going over your schematic as we speak .


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I was being facetious regarding freezing . My shop will be heated next winter (or I'm jumping off a bridge )
> 
> I'm just going over your schematic as we speak .


Glad your shop will be heated - y'all get some serious COLD up there!

Holler if I can help interpret the schematic (unless it's a hard question). :wink:


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

David,

You have to remember that next winter means 2027 in Canadian!!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> David,
> 
> You have to remember that next winter means 2027 in Canadian!!


Now THAT's funny!! :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

honesttjohn said:


> David,
> 
> You have to remember that next winter means 2027 in Canadian!!



Can't get nothing past you guys lol :grin:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Does anyone know if this has been corrected ? The stepper on the Z axis of the Saturn has to be spaced if your using a Nema 34 stepper


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Does anyone know if this has been corrected ? The stepper on the Z axis of the Saturn has to be spaced if your using a Nema 34 stepper


I had Nate make an adapter for ours and it just spaced the existing block up by an inch or so. It seems like he now has an appropriate mounting plate but he'll have to chime in to be certain.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

If there is a fix, it wasn't on my machine. I made a 1/2" spacer block in order to make mine work. I assume that it is possible that it could change based on the motor you use.

A short update on my Saturn...I got the machine on my table and motors mounted and wired this weekend. Did a short test on movement tonight and everything moved. I am getting a Z axis following error if I run my Z axis over 60IPM. Hopefully Nate will chime in and tell me what I need to do to correct that.

My next project will be the proximity switch mounting and wiring. A quick look at that and I didn't see any fixes have been made for switch targets...

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> A short update on my Saturn...I got the machine on my table and motors mounted and wired this weekend. Did a short test on movement tonight and everything moved. I am getting a Z axis following error if I run my Z axis over 60IPM. Hopefully Nate will chime in and tell me what I need to do to correct that.
> 
> My next project will be the proximity switch mounting and wiring. A quick look at that and I didn't see any fixes have been made for switch targets...
> 
> Dave


Sounds like your making headway Dave . Looking very forward to getting your opinion on the X and Y movement once it's dialed in . 
I'm hoping the Z axis issue your having is something very minor


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> I had Nate make an adapter for ours and it just spaced the existing block up by an inch or so. It seems like he now has an appropriate mounting plate but he'll have to chime in to be certain.


Although I don't really like that , it's not a deal breaker. I'm sure it works fine


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Although I don't really like that , it's not a deal breaker. I'm sure it works fine


Yep, wasn't my preference either but I can't perceive any flex and it seems rock solid. This is far better than using long bolts and nuts as stand-offs or posts.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

So I wonder when Nates going to get all these revisions done and ready for shipping?

If you read this Nate , I'm not in a hurry as it won't be running for some time . Just curious as to when they'll be available


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Thank you for the heads up Dave . My first thought was a thicker rack , but I'm no expert and not sure if it's even neccesary.
> It looks like one heck of a machine , and I'm happy to hear Nate is trying to address possible problem areas




As far as the racks go, we have been using this configuration for a few years now without issues. The pinions should last a while though I don't have any data on that. We do have plenty of machines in the field and the number of replacement pinions has been fewer than 5.

I am committing to 3/4in thick racks going forward. These have just completed the quoting process and it will be about 6 weeks before they are manufactured and available. I am looking at getting rack spacers done in the next 2 weeks to move the current racks out.

The rack and pinion spindle changes should start shipping this week.


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Does anyone know if this has been corrected ? The stepper on the Z axis of the Saturn has to be spaced if your using a Nema 34 stepper




It has been. We turned down the ballscrew shaft and have 1/4in spacers between the motor plate and the z-Axis plate


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

beltramidave said:


> If there is a fix, it wasn't on my machine. I made a 1/2" spacer block in order to make mine work. I assume that it is possible that it could change based on the motor you use.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dave,

I didn't ask this in the emails I sent you on this issue but what are you using for your control board and how does it hook up to the computer?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Great news Nate , and thanks for the heads up. Sounds like your going to take a great machine and make it even better


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Dave,
> 
> I didn't ask this in the emails I sent you on this issue but what are you using for your control board and how does it hook up to the computer?


Nate,
I sent you a link to the control board I am using in one of my emails to you today. It is a parallel breakout board from Probotix. I have been using them for several years and not had any issues. Since I had last emailed you today, I got all my sensors mounted and was able to home everything. I had to limit the Z axis to 60 IPM and X & Y to 300 IPM or else I would get following errors.
I double checked my latency and it was below 9000, which I think is very good. I am currently using a laptop for testing. Maybe tomorrow I will try the desktop that I was using on my old system, but I do know that my latency was higher with that machine. If I had to guess it is probably a parameter that I have set wrong..
Dave


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> So I wonder when Nates going to get all these revisions done and ready for shipping?
> 
> If you read this Nate , I'm not in a hurry as it won't be running for some time . Just curious as to when they'll be available


Rick,

Here are a couple of pics on how I addressed the prox switch mounting on the X & Z axis. You can also see that I made a very similar bracket as David F to mount the Z axis motor. The spacers that Nate had were not near enough for my motor, not sure if there is a standard length shaft or not, but mine was too long, so I made a spacer.

Here is also a short video of my the first movement of my machine. I was just running a 'warmup' routine at max table size. X & Y movements at 300 IPM.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bdo2c5sptk5yjrq/VID_20170403_172100932.mp4?dl=0

Dave


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Good video, Dave - nice and smooth. Glad to see it's moving along. When do you think you'll be cutting?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow Dave that's a thing of Beauty. I can't believe how fast you got her up and running ! 
Question though , is there some chattering as the Y axis is moving , or is that just some audio issue?


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

Dave,

I think you are running into an issue with the pulse generation coming from linuxCNC into the probotix control board. Can you post a screenshot of the latency-test command? I am assuming your max jitter is 9000ns?

If you are using a laptop, what voltage was the parallel port at? I have seen parallel ports on laptops run at lower voltages which leads to issues at higher step counts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Dave,
> 
> I think you are running into an issue with the pulse generation coming from linuxCNC into the probotix control board. Can you post a screenshot of the latency-test command? I am assuming your max jitter is 9000ns?
> 
> ...




Also, what is your base period? Did you change it from the standard 50us? With a 50us base period the code for pulse gen runs 20,000 times a second and can generate 10,000 pulses because each pulse requires one cycle for up and one for down. That would explain your limit at 60ipm, which is 10160 pulses a second.

Try using a shorter base period. If it is 50us bump it to 10us and see what happens.


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Wow Dave that's a thing of Beauty. I can't believe how fast you got her up and running !
> Question though , is there some chattering as the Y axis is moving , or is that just some audio issue?


Yes, there is a little noise coming from the right side, but I think it is a belt or R&P tensioning issue. Seems to be more prevalent when coming forward.


----------



## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Dave,
> 
> I think you are running into an issue with the pulse generation coming from linuxCNC into the probotix control board. Can you post a screenshot of the latency-test command? I am assuming your max jitter is 9000ns?
> 
> ...


Nate,
I will check this out and get back to you when I get out to the shop today. Thank you.
Dave


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

difalkner said:


> Good video, Dave - nice and smooth. Glad to see it's moving along. When do you think you'll be cutting?


Thanks. Doubt I will be doing any cutting before the weekend for sure.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Yes, there is a little noise coming from the right side, but I think it is a belt or R&P tensioning issue. Seems to be more prevalent when coming forward.


That's what I was noticing also, it seemed more prevalent as the Y axis was moving forward .
That's a strange one , and hopefully it's an easy fix


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> That's what I was noticing also, it seemed more prevalent as the Y axis was moving forward .
> That's a strange one , and hopefully it's an easy fix


I'm sure it is an adjustment in tension, but wasn't concerned with it at the time. Just wanted to see some movement!

Dave


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

Adjusted some software settings and tightened up a motor pulley (noise on y axis) and now am able to get rapid speeds at 600 ipm on X & Y and 160 ipm on Z. Very happy with those speeds, though will never (doubt) doing any cutting at those speeds.

Here is a link running the same routine as yesterday, but twice as fast!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/afvfduhyub5r9dg/VID_20170404_120006306.mp4?dl=0

Dave


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## FineLineAutomation (Mar 23, 2017)

beltramidave said:


> Adjusted some software settings and tightened up a motor pulley (noise on y axis) and now am able to get rapid speeds at 600 ipm on X & Y and 160 ipm on Z. Very happy with those speeds, though will never (doubt) doing any cutting at those speeds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Glad you got it working. What settings did you adjust? The base period?


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

FineLineAutomation said:


> Glad you got it working. What settings did you adjust? The base period?


Nate,
Sent you an email with settings that I changed, but Base Period was probably the most important.
Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Adjusted some software settings and tightened up a motor pulley (noise on y axis) and now am able to get rapid speeds at 600 ipm on X & Y and 160 ipm on Z. Very happy with those speeds, though will never (doubt) doing any cutting at those speeds.
> 
> Here is a link running the same routine as yesterday, but twice as fast!
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/afvfduhyub5r9dg/VID_20170404_120006306.mp4?dl=0
> ...


Way to go Dave . Geez I've got a lot to learn


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Rick,

This is all going above my limited capacity. That's why i went with the plug and play machine. I want to drive the machine, not play mechanic.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

beltramidave said:


> Adjusted some software settings and tightened up a motor pulley (noise on y axis) and now am able to get rapid speeds at 600 ipm on X & Y and 160 ipm on Z. Very happy with those speeds, though will never (doubt) doing any cutting at those speeds.
> 
> Here is a link running the same routine as yesterday, but twice as fast!
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/afvfduhyub5r9dg/VID_20170404_120006306.mp4?dl=0
> ...


Very nice, Dave! But I gotta' tell you my X axis covers that distance in half the time yours did. Oh, wait... my gantry is half the length of yours - never mind. :wink:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to say one thing about Nate , he's done a great job with the design of his gantries. I've noticed on all Nates models , that the gantry has practically no risers , as the spoil board area is lowered instead . You would think that this would make for a gantry with practical no deflection. 
A simple idea but genius just the same , as I don't see anyone else doing it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> Adjusted some software settings and tightened up a motor pulley (noise on y axis) and now am able to get rapid speeds at 600 ipm on X & Y and 160 ipm on Z. Very happy with those speeds, though will never (doubt) doing any cutting at those speeds.
> 
> Here is a link running the same routine as yesterday, but twice as fast!
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/afvfduhyub5r9dg/VID_20170404_120006306.mp4?dl=0
> ...


 @beltramidave ,
Dave , I don't want to use a desktop for my CNC , but my 2 year old laptop which obviously doesn't have a parallel port . Are you using the USB port with smooth stepper for the interface ?


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## beltramidave (Jan 6, 2016)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> @beltramidave ,
> Dave , I don't want to use a desktop for my CNC , but my 2 year old laptop which obviously doesn't have a parallel port . Are you using the USB port with smooth stepper for the interface ?


I am using a parallel port. Laptops are frowned upon for machine control. I used one for setup of this machine, but am using my desktop now. Lots of forum posts out there giving reasons for not using laptops.

Dave


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

beltramidave said:


> I am using a parallel port. Laptops are frowned upon for machine control. I used one for setup of this machine, but am using my desktop now. Lots of forum posts out there giving reasons for not using laptops.
> 
> Dave


Well come to think of it , I read a few articles where they mentioned that laptops share memory with the video ,and its harder to shut off unnecessary programs running in the background , making them not a great choice . I've been seeing laptops lately between you and some YouTube videos , but they were probably just doing initial setup also . 

So with a modern computer running windows 8 or 10 , I wonder if adding a PCI card with a parallel port would work ok ?
Or worse comes to worse a smooth stepper on a modern computer. I still have a copy of XP . To bad newer computers don't support it (that I'm aware the of)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

This may be an option ? 
They mentioned this option at cncrouterparts site. 

https://www.startech.com/ca/Cards-Adapters/Parallel/1-Port-EPP-ECP-PCI-Express-Parallel-Card-~PEX1P


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm using a desktop running Windows 7 but the interface to the Smooth Stepper is Ethernet (hence the ESS moniker). It's about an 8 year old HP I bought new with Vista installed and I upgraded it to XP Pro and then to Windows 7. I would never use a notebook computer for the controller software although I've seen some do just that and likely many are very successful at it. Even though I'm a Geek it would be just my luck the notebook computer I chose would have a locked in hardware setting that would override the OS and turn off the hard drive right in the middle of a cut!


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## streetrodlover (May 18, 2017)

I gotta say Nate these new machines look amazing I wish I waited when I built you previous version. I'd take linear rails over CRS and skate bearings any day.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

streetrodlover said:


> I gotta say Nate these new machines look amazing I wish I waited when I built you previous version. I'd take linear rails over CRS and skate bearings any day.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Welcome to the forum, Justin! The new machines do look nice. A lot has changed since we got our Saturn but it seems to be more than adequate for everything I throw at it.

David


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## streetrodlover (May 18, 2017)

difalkner said:


> Welcome to the forum, Justin! The new machines do look nice. A lot has changed since we got our Saturn but it seems to be more than adequate for everything I throw at it.
> 
> David


Mine too although still haven't done 3d, and I have been following all the builds and changes still on the zone, found this forum decided to join it too. 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

streetrodlover said:


> Mine too although still haven't done 3d, and I have been following all the builds and changes still on the zone, found this forum decided to join it too.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


Welcome to the forum Justin


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