# tax return..new purchase - table saw delimma



## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

When I first set out to get a new table saw last year I was pretty much resided to buying the Grizzly 715 hybrid 2hp saw. The more research I did the more I found that getting everything square on that particular hybrid saw could be tedious along with my concern about having enough power for 8/4 stock and they don't have a thin kerf knife if I was to purchase a thin blade (to help my power concerns). During the past yr I have had a 220v installed in the garage by a friend for $100 and have stashed away a little more cash, along with tax return. I have a Grizzly bandsaw and absolutely love it so I kinda was ok with sticking with them for my TS purchase. I then moved up to looking at the age old 690 vs 1023 debate..seems like great saws for the money. Then I noticed that when I broadened my horizons I looked at the upper end stuff and have been debating Jet Xacta vs Powermatic PM2000..and now I have a buddy trying to talk me into a SawStop (he recently bought one and it looks sweet!). So basically it went from an $800 hybrid now to a damn $3k beast. I really would like to chill out on the price as I need to upgrade my jointer to 8" and try and get a drum or belt sander somewhere in there too, but I do realize if I get a great saw, it would be a 15yr+ type investement. I do like the dust collection blade shroud of the JET/PM as well as the quick release stuff and the arbor lock / one hand blade switching. The PM does have a cool integrated mobile base which is something that's an absolute as I have a 20x20 garage so everything is mobile. Maybe its just me, but I could see myself changing blades a lot with dados and plywood blades etc. so the arbor lock seems like a big upgrade from the grizzly stuff...maybe in real world application it isn't that big of a deal. I am a realist though and it is hard to swallow the fact I could get a 691 and a grizzly 8" jointer with spiral head cutters for the same as a Powermatic or SawStop. The Jet Xacta is nice and has pretty much the same features as the PM minus the mobile base for a bit cheaper but am I losing any quality by stepping down...and is it that much of a step up from the 690/1023 to be that big of a price jump? Choices choices...I guess this post ended up being more of a rant than a real question, back to the delimma and more research.


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## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

I have the 2hp grizzly hyrbrid. It's a pretty good saw and it will cut 8/4 without too much hesitation. If you have a dull blade it may slow up a bit. Setup and alignment is a process similar on many saws, though the higher caliber saws are more likely to be accurate out of the box. My grizzly wasn't too far off. 

I do consider my grizzly a temporary saw. In five or so years I plan to sell it and purchase a saw stop. 

Ask yourself about your long term plans. Are you going to buy the saw stop eventually, anyway? If so, consider saving your money and just getting it now.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Do a community search for Sawstop...lots of previous input on the Forum.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Interesting dilemma. I bought the Griz G1023RLW last year. It has a blade shroud which seems to work OK but don't expect awesome DC from any shroud. I don't think it makes for a large improvement. I would definitely not let a shroud be a deciding factor. 

I looked at a lot of table saws and found the Griz to have good quality at a great price point. Am very happy with it!


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## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

Well I guess I never really considered a SS because of the cost..and to me it seems silly to get a 1.75 hp Sawstop hybrid that costs more than a full on 3or 5 hp cabinet saw. My friend was like well if you're spending the $$ for a Jet, might as well get a Powermatic, but if you're spending that much $$ you might as well buy a 3hp Sawstop." lol...the cost keeps escalating...other than the safety feature im not sure the SS is any better than the PM or JET...and is the PM or Jet really that much better of a saw than grizzly to justify the price? although there are features I do like on those two moreso than grizz. Now keep in mind ive only seen these, never full on operated them so my opinions are subjective to this point.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I think I have the same disease as you . I start with getting $300 and think I'm going to buy a toy but end up spending $3000 instead lol .
I wanted a saw stop myself but bought a GI instead . Pretty happy with it . I use push sticks and never let my hand get to close to the blade . I'm a big proponent of making sure the TS has a quality fence . I'm a Beisemeyer guy , but I think the excalibor fence is very simular in design . Just a little more refined


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

If you are serious enough about woodworking to even consider spending $3000 on a saw, then my advice is to spring for a real name-brand cabinet saw. It isn't just a matter of more power, the guts are beefier and will hold alignment better. My old contractor saw would change alignment every time I tilted the blade. My 10 year old cabinet saw stays true. I second the motion for a Biesemeyer fence, no matter what saw you get. It will simply transform your table sawing experience. No more measuring to the front side of the blade, measure to the back side, etc. Put the hairline cursor on the mark, lock it down and you're done.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I have a Grizzly 690 I bought a few years ago and couldn't be happier. It is a solid saw and stays in alignment. Easy to change blades. I use a Wixey to set tilt and an Incra SE 1000 miter gauge. Works for me.


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## Goldenhammer4 (Aug 30, 2014)

I had a similar situation just a suggestion check out Laguna fusion good luck


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## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

To those with a 30" rip like the 690, do u wish u had the longer rail 691 for 50" rip? I'd be doing some plywood , not sure if the longer rail extension is something handy or just takes up more space you don't necessarily need per say....I could see where an outfeed table though would be hugely helpful


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

flitemedic13 said:


> To those with a 30" rip like the 690, do u wish u had the longer rail 691 for 50" rip? I'd be doing some plywood , not sure if the longer rail extension is something handy or just takes up more space you don't necessarily need per say....I could see where an outfeed table though would be hugely helpful


I had a 35" Beisemeyer fence on my contractors saw and there were days when it drove me crazy . I got tired of using a skill saw and a straight edge so I upgraded to the 50" . Going to use all that extra real estate for an extra router table while I'm at it . A 50" fence takes up a lot of room but if you hve the extra space then I'd go with the 50" as expense isn't that much more.

An outfield table is real handy , or imo pretty much neccesary . I got tired of not having one and built a large outfield table that doubles as a work bench . I tried rollers the first go around and they were a pita


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I just purchased a craftex cx200,clone of the grizzly 690 ,added my excalibur 52" fence to and so far very happy,smooth and powerful,decent price,as far as dust control,it's a table saw


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

flitemedic13 said:


> To those with a 30" rip like the 690, do u wish u had the longer rail 691 for 50" rip? I'd be doing some plywood , not sure if the longer rail extension is something handy or just takes up more space you don't necessarily need per say....I could see where an outfeed table though would be hugely helpful


I've got a 32" Incra--most of the time it's way more than enough. Over the past several months, i've begun using some panel products--and on a few occasions 32" has been 2" to 4" not enough. I could move the rails over 6" or so and set up a second stop and scale--but i bought a used EZ Smart a few weeks ago, so i'll experiment with that before making any changes in the table saw. 

By the way, i've looked at a few cabinet saws lately, the static footprint for a 50" Biesmeyer is only about 12" wider than the 32" Incra. With the positioner extended, the 50" footprint is actually smaller for cuts above 12" (in my configuration)

The answer for you probably depends on the use of panels you tend to work with. (in my case that is changing, but i'm flexible!!)

earl


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Earl if I knew about Incra when I bought my GI TS I would have ordered it without a fence and tried the Incra instead . I thought the Incra fence looked like it had a potential to be a little flimsy when extended ? I do see there are lock downs to though so that would probably solve any issues . My luck I'd forget to undo the lock downs and bend the whole assembly


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a Laguna 10 inch Fusion Hybrid, which I love. It is the 110 v model, but it is also available with a 220 v upgrade. It comes in a 30 inch and 52 inch model for very little more $, and it has a first rate American made motor. A week or so ago, Laguna was having a moving sale with greatly reduced prices.

It provides a level of precision that is pretty difficult to match and the construction is very solid. I compared it to just about everything out there up to $3,000 and I think the Laguna is the very best value available. I am not much for SawStop because I do many outdoor projects in redwood, which often has a high moisture content, and if you forget to shut off the safety feature, you can blow $130 for a cartridge and blade in a snap. If you are using a Gripper and keep the blade guards on, I don't think the safety feature is worth the extra.

Laguna is also pretty good about aging their steel before milling it, so it was not only very flat, but stays that way. I suggest you give it a close look before you buy. 

I have been able to get exact cuts with this saw and think you might find it perfect for your budget and your needs. I sure have.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

^^
Tom I've also read where too much moisture is an issue . I would like to design a system but with a disk brake on a light weight flywheel geared to the arbour . 
This way when it stops it wouldn't be quite as abrupt but would shut it down without damaging the blade.
At the very worse you'd get a deep cut . 
The SawStop name is already taken so I'm going to call my system "just walk it off "


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

RainMan1 said:


> Earl if I knew about Incra when I bought my GI TS I would have ordered it without a fence and tried the Incra instead . I thought the Incra fence looked like it had a potential to be a little flimsy when extended ? I do see there are lock downs to though so that would probably solve any issues . My luck I'd forget to undo the lock downs and bend the whole assembly


Not flimsy when the positioner is extended, but the fence could flex if one put a lot of side pressure on it. Fastening the rail hold-downs eliminate that possibility. The front one would be enough, but i do the back one as well. On thin stock i'd say using both is essential. 

If you have the rail hold-downs fastened, you won't forget to release them to move the positioner--unless you plan on moving it with a sledge hammer.

earl


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## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

Hmm I was leaning toward the Jet Xacta but just downloaded the manual and read where it's 330lbs...misprint maybe? Aren't most 3hp cabinet saws in the 400-500lb range? Is that something that should matter even? Did they shave off weight or cheap out on something I'm not aware of...it sure looks heavier than 330...l was always under the impression heavier is better for a cabinet saw..seems like 330lbs is slightly heavier than some contractor saws but lighter than some hybrids
.I think the grizzly hybrid is 380lbs. Just seems a bit on the light side, may not matter, dunno.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

flitemedic13 said:


> Hmm I was leaning toward the Jet Xacta but just downloaded the manual and read where it's 330lbs...misprint maybe? Aren't most 3hp cabinet saws in the 400-500lb range? Is that something that should matter even? Did they shave off weight or cheap out on something I'm not aware of...it sure looks heavier than 330...l was always under the impression heavier is better for a cabinet saw..seems like 330lbs is slightly heavier than some contractor saws but lighter than some hybrids
> .I think the grizzly hybrid is 380lbs. Just seems a bit on the light side, may not matter, dunno.


you are correct,a cabinet saw will be 500 or more pounds.weight gives stability and dampens vibration,besides being a clue that some serious metal was used in building the saw
I believe the grizzly 0690 is good value


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I believe my GI TS is 453 pounds ( from memory )


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

*Just walk it off saw?*



RainMan1 said:


> ^^
> Tom I've also read where too much moisture is an issue . I would like to design a system but with a disk brake on a light weight flywheel geared to the arbour .
> This way when it stops it wouldn't be quite as abrupt but would shut it down without damaging the blade.
> At the very worse you'd get a deep cut .
> The SawStop name is already taken so I'm going to call my system "just walk it off "


OK. I think that a wide awake brain, thinking through the cut before making it, using a Gripper or good push stick, keeping thumbs tucked in, not trapping the piece between blade and fence and other consciously applied safety methods are what count most. If I feel the least bit off about a cut, I just stop. A coaster brake of some sort would be interesting, but I doubt you can stop a blade with side pressure without ruining the blade by bending and you'd have used up a 70 dollar cartridge anyhow. Oh well, there goes another million dollar idea.


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## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

I think I have come to the conclusion on a Jet Xacta 3hp 30 possibly 50". The more I look at stuff the more I come back to this one. Its slightly higher than what I originally was looking to spend. I truly went into this thinking I would end up with a Grizzly 690/691 as I have a griz bandsaw and love it, but to me the Jet seems to be more on par with the quality of the PM2000 (minus the integrated mobile base and neato miter setup) than some of the others, although the price savings with the Grizz keep me second guessing my decision. I think the 690/691 is honestly probably the best bang for the buck, but as it stands the Jet seems to have things I prefer. CPO outlets seem to be the best deal with the 30" going for $2294.99, free shipping and no tax. Home Depot is charging $55 shipping and state sales tax $193. I think the PM2000 is great but a lot more $$ for not much upgrades and the SawStop honestly is just out of my budget. I could see if I was going with a PM I should probably just get a SS but as it is the SS is about $1000 more than what I can spend. Ive been keeping an eye out for those usual 10 or 15% off jet tools sale but im sure I have to wait til fathers day/labor day/4th type of day for it to come around.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

If your only concern of buying the Grizzly is that they do not sell a thin riving knife... Let me ease your mind on that.

If you look at the part manual for that (at the Grizzly site, with that item), that is just too similar to the mount that is on my Luguna TSS... which is a standard European design that standardized across many brands of saws

Just like with cars and computers, a manufacturer doesn't make every part. Riving knives on the high-end saws are included in that. There is one standard that fits many saws. The European standard for that was adopted for high-end Chinese saws, when Altendorf bought a factory in China. 

So I've bought riving knives from SCM and Felder and from Laguna for their PS12-5 panel saw (that I bought an overhead guard set from) and they are the same design and dimensions. The marking on them lead me to suspect they were all manufactured by "someone." I know that it is also the same ones for Altendorf and Martin.


If you have $3000, take your time and do your research. Spend well. Look at what the working space with be for what you want. Talk to owners who already are using what you want to buy.

A call to a dealer will put you in contact with... or ask online and email owners you find. That's what I did. I'm embarrassed how much I spent on my saw. (I bought much more that just the saw... and modded it into what I wanted.) Mine was a custom build. (They are made after they are ordered.) I am very pleased and happy with my decision. Sharon still asks me critically if it has paid for itself yet. It is so much of a pleasure to use! My basic saw would have been 3HP, but I upgraded the order with a 4-1/2 horsepower, with a 1HP scoring motor.

But what fits _you_ is going to be personal to _you_, what _you_ do, and how _you_ work.


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## flitemedic13 (Oct 8, 2014)

Despite a lot of flip flopping, research and haggling, and despite the fact the wifey approved the purchase of a sawstop...I'm ordering a grizzly 691 once I see a sale or coupon code floating around...that way I can sell my 6" jointer and upgrade that to the grizzly 8". I had settled on Jet Xacta but I don't see the extra advantage/quality when compared to the price hike. Buying both table saw and jointer will still put me well under a PM or SS.


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