# Radial arm saw does most of what table saw does



## RobinLocksley (Mar 28, 2011)

Im just looking for an opinion: most of the tools in my shop are quite good quality, but i am not a pro, and i feel they are good enough for me at this point. the only possible exception is my table saw. it is just ok, but honestly i dont use it much. my question is, with the exception of ripping down plywood sheets, or stuff that wont fit in my radial saw range, do you guys think it is important to have a really good table saw, and why? i have seen some good deals on older very heavy table saws, and want to know if i should be looking out for a good one.

Thanks in advance

RL


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## tdublyou (Jan 8, 2010)

Robin,
IMHO, You can't beat a well made and properly adjusted table saw for accuracy and diversity. Many woodworkers don't even have a RAS and I'm willing to bet that those that due, if forced to choose one over the other would choose a table saw. 
While the RAS does several things very well, most of them have trouble staying true, too many moving parts and a small misalignment becomes large by the end of the saws travel on the arm. Personally I'll take a good sliding compound miter saw over a RAS. 
That being said, keep in mind this is just my opinion and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I have both Robin, but if I had to choose just one, it would be my radial arm saw which I had years before I got a table saw. Large panels, then and now, I sit on a pair of saw horses and rip them with the hand held circular saw and if the edge isn't as clean as I want it, I clamp a straight edge on the cut panel and rout the edge whilst still on the saw horses. In summary, I think your present set-up sounds just fine.
Quite obviously Robin, if money and space aren't a problem you should have the finest quality machine tools available!


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## RobinLocksley (Mar 28, 2011)

harrysin said:


> I have both Robin, but if I had to choose just one, it would be my radial arm saw which I had years before I got a table saw. Large panels, then and now, I sit on a pair of saw horses and rip them with the hand held circular saw and if the edge isn't as clean as I want it, I clamp a straight edge on the cut panel and rout the edge whilst still on the saw horses. In summary, I think your present set-up sounds just fine.
> Quite obviously Robin, if money and space aren't a problem you should have the finest quality machine tools available!


Yes, i try to buy once, and the best i can afford. i got the table saw cheap, as i needed it for a specific project a few years back. I agree, i use my sliding miter saw a LOT, but i have just resurrected my RAS, put a laser ring on it, and have made a dust collection setup that get like 99% of it, where the sliding miter seems to fling dust around!. I gotta get some pics up, so you can see what i am talking about, rather than me "splaining" it.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I'm very interested in your dust collection system on the RAS Robin, that's something I've never been able to achieve.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I didn't have a table saw for a very long time and used the RAS saw for everything,if I had to down size the shop the RAS saw would stay, I like my fingers and the table saw is one tool will take them off in a heart beat But so will the RAS but I don't push my hand over the saw blade like the table saw in fact I can clamp the stock in place and do the job with one hand or if needed, I could do it blind folded, try that with a table saw BUT Don't Do That..

=========


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I don't have a RAS, and honestly I've never missed it. While not indispensable, I find I use my table saw most out of all my tools.

There's a lot you can do with even the cheapest saw to make it work nearly as well as the monsters. Really the only things you can't duplicate are the power and the ability to run dados if your saw isn't so equipped. It might be worth looking into just so you could have a dado stack on one and a thin kerf rip on the other.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Robin, I think the RAS vs. TS question depends a lot on the nature of the work that you are doing, along with the safety precautions that you employ. Back when the RAS was all the rage, people made all kinds of attachments for them to do various kinds of tasks that have since been deemed too dangerous. Personally, I would never rip boards on a RAS, for example, even though doing so was one of the features touted back in the day. I use my RAS (an old Delta Plus 10) mostly for crosscutting long stock - boards that would be inconvenient (or, dangerous) to try to cut on the TS. Sheet goods I cut with a plunge circular saw and guide-rail system. 

So, while I consider a decent-to-good TS as an essential tool in my shop, keeping it properly tuned is even more important. Although I'd love to have the room for a good cabinet saw, I get by with an old ('70s vintage) Delta 9" contractor's saw, properly tuned and with a good after-market fence. Light-duty table saws that won't stay tuned, however, are to be avoided in my opinion - they end up being just too dangerous.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

The only time I use a dado set is on my RAS, don't need to remove the plate just pop on the dado set and plow away, you talk about how easy dado's can be put in place ..it beats most of the routers at that job..
I also rip stock with one, it's the only tool that has a built in hold down device and a kick back device built into the guard just for the ripping job..
I will say you need to be a real "ID Ten Error" type of guy to get hurt by a RAS..

======



Cocheseuga said:


> I don't have a RAS, and honestly I've never missed it. While not indispensable, I find I use my table saw most out of all my tools.
> 
> There's a lot you can do with even the cheapest saw to make it work nearly as well as the monsters. Really the only things you can't duplicate are the power and the ability to run dados if your saw isn't so equipped. It might be worth looking into just so you could have a dado stack on one and a thin kerf rip on the other.


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> The only time I use a dado set is on my RAS, don't need to remove the plate just pop on the dado set and plow away, you talk about how easy dado's can be put in place ..it beats most of the routers at that job..
> 
> ======



One of the reasons I've been keeping an eye out for one. But I don't think I'll find a place for one in my current shop.


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## barking spider (Dec 26, 2010)

Well, a Yugo does most of what a Lexus does too. However..........

While I own a RAS, it was not my first saw, and if I had to keep only 1 saw it would be my TS.

I bought mine when I had a job where I was going to be cutting a bunch of wood off at different lengths. I still use it for cutting long boards that I'm not comfortable using with my TS sled.

I have had a couple occasions where the RAS blade started to "walk" over the board I was cutting. Scary to say the least.

My biggest reservation about a RAS is the limit of just how wide of a board you can cut. Cross cut or rip, there is still a limit on how wide you can go.

My step father (RIP) never liked TS's and only had a RAS. He was a carpenter and worked in the studios for years. But watching him do some of the stuff he did with his RAS made my skin crawl.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

barking spider said:


> Well, a Yugo does most of what a Lexus does too. However..........
> 
> While I own a RAS, it was not my first saw, and if I had to keep only 1 saw it would be my TS.
> 
> ...


I've made a three piece table which gives three positions for the fence, which when at the rear gives a cut width of 2' 1", slightly more than my saw table. In spite of these saws giving a climb cut when ripping, with the riving knife and kickback assy. correctly set up, these saws are probably safer than a table saw.


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

perhaps this is a good time to ask a table saw question and -yes i have 2 RAS and a tablesaw non of which are less welcome in my shop.
anyway on my table saw i have a incra 2000 miter . most of the incra's life has been spend sitting watching me so recently i decided to begin using it to cut segmented pieces of maybe a inch .
Much to my delight it cut well and consistent which is important in angle cutting ---but and there is always a but... in cutting these small pieces my original issue of 10 fingers was entirely too close to the whirling finger eating blade. 
I would really like to find a hold down device that works with my incra... So the short version anyone know of such a hold down ..i really prefer not to go back to my home made sled.
thanks 
Bill


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

wuzfuzde said:


> . . . I would really like to find a hold down device that works with my incra... So the short version anyone know of such a hold down ..i really prefer not to go back to my home made sled.
> thanks
> Bill


If you have the Incra stop block, the base of which which appears to have t-track slots on the top, how about rigging a toggle clamp (with t-bolts) to that t-track, immediately over the bar?


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## RobinLocksley (Mar 28, 2011)

harrysin said:


> I'm very interested in your dust collection system on the RAS Robin, that's something I've never been able to achieve.


we are moving stuff through the shop today , getting rid of an old couch, but when it is back together, i will take some pics of my setup. i would be curious to see if anyone had improvement suggestions. 

ill put up pics on here if i can figure out how!


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## RobinLocksley (Mar 28, 2011)

RobinLocksley said:


> we are moving stuff through the shop today , getting rid of an old couch, but when it is back together, i will take some pics of my setup. i would be curious to see if anyone had improvement suggestions.
> 
> ill put up pics on here if i can figure out how!


Take a look here. i used an old plastic bowl, that i used aluminum tape, and structural putty to connect it into a y connector from my blade guard, and it gets damn near everything.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

RobinLocksley said:


> Im just looking for an opinion: most of the tools in my shop are quite good quality, but i am not a pro, and i feel they are good enough for me at this point. the only possible exception is my table saw. it is just ok, but honestly i dont use it much. my question is, with the exception of ripping down plywood sheets, or stuff that wont fit in my radial saw range, do you guys think it is important to have a really good table saw, and why? i have seen some good deals on older very heavy table saws, and want to know if i should be looking out for a good one.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> RL


Hi Robin:

My vote goes with the table saw. My first saw was a RAS and I was so happy to get a table saw. But, I learned on a table saw so, I could have a bias. But, I find that the RAS doesn't hold it's adjustments well and is subject to diving into the cut.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for the photos Robin, they explain it perfectly. I only used the small dust port with my shop vac. and it was a waste of time but your idea of a rear collector connected to the two bag collector with a 4" pipe is what I need because as you found out, most of the sawdust collects at the rear of the saw.
As a matter of interest, how often do you have to make adjustments to keep it accurate, I've adjusted mine twice since I initially set it up in '74.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I will 2nd Harry's post.......


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## RobinLocksley (Mar 28, 2011)

honestly, it has been sitting aside, not used for years. i just decided that i needed a hobby other than computers, and so got rid of all the crap my wife throws in my shop (you know, because it is mine), and set it all up. First, i would have no idea how to make adjustments to keep it accurate, so please let me know what i might need to do. one of the first things i did, was get a laser accessory for it, that goes between the blade and the bolt, and gives me a perfect line where i can gauge my exact cut every time. I found it on amazon, and it is about 20 bucks.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

RobinLocksley said:


> honestly, it has been sitting aside, not used for years. i just decided that i needed a hobby other than computers, and so got rid of all the crap my wife throws in my shop (you know, because it is mine), and set it all up. First, i would have no idea how to make adjustments to keep it accurate, so please let me know what i might need to do. one of the first things i did, was get a laser accessory for it, that goes between the blade and the bolt, and gives me a perfect line where i can gauge my exact cut every time. I found it on amazon, and it is about 20 bucks.


Hi Robin:

I'm not sure but are you asking for Radial Arm Saw manuals? If so, I just uploaded one for Sears Craftsman 113.19760(C) (C=Canada). This is indicative of all of the radial arm saws. The adjustments will be similar but not necessarily the same as your's. I'm also trying to upload a "how to" manual but I'm having difficulty. Please also note that there was a recall of Radial Arm Saws and an upgrade was produced and distributed. I have one on my machine but you'll have to search to see if it is still available and if it is applicable to your machine.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 18, 2011)

Ive got a old Craftsman RAS that is in need of repair but unless it really does anything better than a fine table saw or router I doubt I'll ever fix it. Dad always said it was a piece of junk and never stayed in alignment. I do see though that If you have room and Its set to a specific task to save time like Dado then I may try to fix this old beast. ATM it takes up space I'd like my jointer to be sitting at.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

RobinLocksley said:


> honestly, it has been sitting aside, not used for years. i just decided that i needed a hobby other than computers, and so got rid of all the crap my wife throws in my shop (you know, because it is mine), and set it all up. First, i would have no idea how to make adjustments to keep it accurate, so please let me know what i might need to do. one of the first things i did, was get a laser accessory for it, that goes between the blade and the bolt, and gives me a perfect line where i can gauge my exact cut every time. I found it on amazon, and it is about 20 bucks.


If you haven't got a handbook download one from the internet as I did for mine last year because it was so long since I had carried out major adjustments that I had forgotten how to adjust the yoke.


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## wuzfuzde (Feb 21, 2009)

*really old craftsman radial arm manual*



allthunbs said:


> Hi Robin:
> 
> I'm not sure but are you asking for Radial Arm Saw manuals? If so, I just uploaded one for Sears Craftsman 113.19760(C) (C=Canada). This is indicative of all of the radial arm saws. The adjustments will be similar but not necessarily the same as your's. I'm also trying to upload a "how to" manual but I'm having difficulty. Please also note that there was a recall of Radial Arm Saws and an upgrade was produced and distributed. I have one on my machine but you'll have to search to see if it is still available and if it is applicable to your machine.


in the late 60's i had a radial arm saw(craftsman) and with it was a manual which had lots of neat how to information .that saw and manual is now gone ..but i constantly search for a copy of that manual which specifically had directions for cutting a 5 pointed star...i was wondering if your manual contains that.-----------------------------------
If anyone is interested Craftsman recall is still ongoing ---the ease of this recall was scary he people couldn't have been more accommodating-I did two different saws ... 
Thanks


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 18, 2011)

*Wow tool cool*

Saw the replys about Emerson this is way too neat !! radialarmsawrecall web site any RAS from 1958 to 1993 will get a free safety upgrade or your choose to scrap it send in the motor and they send you 100.00 bucks.

After looking at all the severed limbs from the law suits I'm kind opting for the latter my Dad always said that his RAS scared the crap outta him.

D.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

wuzfuzde said:


> in the late 60's i had a radial arm saw(craftsman) and with it was a manual which had lots of neat how to information .that saw and manual is now gone ..but i constantly search for a copy of that manual which specifically had directions for cutting a 5 pointed star...i was wondering if your manual contains that.-----------------------------------
> If anyone is interested Craftsman recall is still ongoing ---the ease of this recall was scary he people couldn't have been more accommodating-I did two different saws ...
> Thanks


Bill:

The manual refers to the angles required for various polygons but nothing specific for a 5 pointed star. There are instructions for an 8 pointed star. 

This could be your manual. There are instructions for all of the add-ons that were available for the RAS. There are also complete instructions for how to setup a RAS. Unfortunately, it is too large for the forum to accept at the moment. Hopefully Mark will be able to make the changes soon to allow larger manuals.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Yupa4242 said:


> Saw the replys about Emerson this is way too neat !! radialarmsawrecall web site any RAS from 1958 to 1993 will get a free safety upgrade or your choose to scrap it send in the motor and they send you 100.00 bucks.
> 
> After looking at all the severed limbs from the law suits I'm kind opting for the latter my Dad always said that his RAS scared the crap outta him.
> 
> D.


HI Dennis:

Welcome to RouterForum.com. That's what this site is all about - sharing information and knowledge and experience.


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 18, 2011)

Yeah I see i got the 100 buck part wrong on the RAS I ordered the saftey parts today. I just dont really know what I'll use this saw for unless it can be set up for special cuts like dados.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Yupa4242 said:


> Yeah I see i got the 100 buck part wrong on the RAS I ordered the saftey parts today. I just dont really know what I'll use this saw for unless it can be set up for special cuts like dados.


Hi Dennis:

If it scared the crap out of your father, hope you have the same experience. If you're scared you're watching what you're doing and you might end up with eight fingers, not seven. (plus two thunbs)

Next, the Radial Arm saw (Radio alarm saw) is a versatile tool. Keep it in your shop. When you learn how to set it up correctly, there is a lot you can do with it. For a long time, all I had with the RAS. It wasn't until I finally got my table saw that the RAS was relegated to "special" uses. BTW, dados are not really good on a RAS. You've got to be particularly careful and nibble it to death for the dado to be accurate.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

For me the RAS is the only tool to do dados on, very safe and very accurate.. that's if you don't use the Craftsman RAS..
The Craftsman RAS saw almost killed off the RAS business ,so many got turned off by it..


=======


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## Yupa4242 (Apr 18, 2011)

Oh my the Craft haters oh my  Not my tools of choice but it was my father's just a tad sentimental. I only own a few Craftsman pieces one being the aged RAS,couple of Jig saws,belt sander and drill press. Otherwise I got a toss up of Dewalt,Ryobi,JET,and GI products.

When I get the upgrade kit I'll try and whip this old machine back to it glory as safely as possible of it's going to the scrap yard for 12 bucks. 

I've heard both sides on dados with a RAS some prefer and some reject the idea. 

I would just like to know the basics of what it can be used for and I'll build a stand and extensions to imcorperate into my shop. Are the new sliding miter/chop saws the new modern replacement for RAS's?

D.


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## Pastor Mike (Jul 24, 2011)

Hi,
I just joined the forum, and I haven't set up my profile, but I saw this conversation. You asked about setting up the RAS. There is a video on YouTube that does a great job of walking through the process of fine tuning your RAS. The particulars of your saw may be different, but the all of the adjustments he goes through are critical, and the must be done in the right order. Because I'm new to the forum, I can't post a URL. Go to YouTube, and search for Radial Arm Saw Setup. The video posted by howjac is about 8 minutes long and is excellent.
As a footnote, I have an older Craftsman 10" RAS. I do check it regularly, and it seems to be staying square. I got it for free and it was a wreck. I've had it all apart twice, replacing parts as I have the funds. I've been pleased with it so far.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Pastor Mike said:


> Hi,
> I just joined the forum, and I haven't set up my profile, but I saw this conversation. You asked about setting up the RAS. There is a video on YouTube that does a great job of walking through the process of fine tuning your RAS. The particulars of your saw may be different, but the all of the adjustments he goes through are critical, and the must be done in the right order. Because I'm new to the forum, I can't post a URL. Go to YouTube, and search for Radial Arm Saw Setup. The video posted by howjac is about 8 minutes long and is excellent.
> As a footnote, I have an older Craftsman 10" RAS. I do check it regularly, and it seems to be staying square. I got it for free and it was a wreck. I've had it all apart twice, replacing parts as I have the funds. I've been pleased with it so far.


Welcome to the forum , Mike


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Welcome aboard, Mike...

As for the RAS vs TS discussion, my personal preference is to use my TS for ripping (which are a fairly high percentage of my cuts) and my miter saw for CC's. I like the laser for final trimming.

For rough-cutting sheet goods, if I don't have a helper in the shop, I use my circular saw. Otherwise that's the reason I got the 52" fence model TS... because it'll let me "cross cut" as well as "rip" a full sheet of plywood. I still make the first cut a little oversized out of habit and because it lets me trim off the factory edge dings.

Maybe if I'd owned the RAS I'd not have purchased the miter saw... I dunno.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Buy the Incra sled thats the ticket has the holdown built in you need both.


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## Alan Holtham (Aug 11, 2011)

As someone else has already said RAS's were all the rage at one time, but have fallen out of favour. In my experience they are fine if you go through the long and involved setting up procedure, but this will only last about 5 mins. As soon as you get a 'snatch' the whole thing is out of line and useless again. My preference is for a good bandsaw and a SCMS which will always maintain its accuracy, though the crosscut capacity is obviously limited. I am lucky enough to also have a table saw with a sliding table which is superb for wide crosscuts, but in reality is rarely used for the work I do. I don't use it for anything else. Given the choice I would buy a decent bandsaw every time, and then the SCMS, but as usual it is horses for courses. Just my opinion!

Cheers,

Alan


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## jeeper (Jan 9, 2011)

I also have both saws. The RAS is a DeWalt my father bought new back in 1963. I used it so much I didnt realize just how much I could use the TS unstead. I finally had broken down a bought a Ridgid TS3660. In the time owning the TS I have cut more than I ever did on the RAS. I will still use the RAS from time to time but I feel safer and enjoy the TS much more. The RAS is still in great shape, and I cant recall it ever having any repairs on it. I do think the power cord is about ready for a new one now. Hope this helps.
Larry


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## allbarknobite (Sep 15, 2011)

*I prefer a radial saw*

I have been using my Dewalt Radial Arm Saw (RAS) that I bought new about 1970, when it was still manufactured in the good old USA. 
I do have to realign it ever so often, and I do verify the settings before doing serious stuff, but with good oiling and housekeeping it has delivered. Of course with the new carbide blades, and thin kerfs, things are easy to do.
I don't have the large space needed for a good table saw, so have come to rely on my RAS. Everything in my garage/shop is on casters, and whatever I need takes center stage. 
Since this is a router forum, I might mention that I have 3 working router tables, and soon will have a fourth one, (a digital powerlift from MLCS), for my 3 PC routers. I replied to your RAS comment, because I like to use that saw.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Alan Holtham said:


> As soon as you get a 'snatch' the whole thing is out of line and useless again. My preference is for a good bandsaw and a SCMS which will always maintain its accuracy, though the crosscut capacity is obviously limited.


Hi Alan

That's true for the DIY/home shop type radial arm saws (Craftsman, Ryobi, smaller B&D/deWalt, Eumenia, etc) but doesn't apply to the commercial/industrial stuff (heavy deWalt 14in and larger, Original Saw, Wadkin, Stromab, Maggi, etc). If you take the table off a lightweight RAS the problem is all too obvious - the frame of the home shop varieties is just too light. I know from experience that DWs can be beefed up and made a lot more rigid by adding some 2 or 3mm steel plates, but really this shouldn't be necessary. I, too, use an SCMS for preference these days (it also fits into the back of the van!)

Regards

Phil


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## Blackcloud (Mar 12, 2010)

RobinLocksley said:


> Im just looking for an opinion: most of the tools in my shop are quite good quality, but i am not a pro, and i feel they are good enough for me at this point. the only possible exception is my table saw. it is just ok, but honestly i dont use it much. my question is, with the exception of ripping down plywood sheets, or stuff that wont fit in my radial saw range, do you guys think it is important to have a really good table saw, and why? i have seen some good deals on older very heavy table saws, and want to know if i should be looking out for a good one.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> RL


In my opinion the table saw is the best way to go. A good mitersaw on a good stand does a great job of what a Radial Arm saw does since it can't do sheet work, but a good solid Table saw can do anything a Radial Arm saw does and what a miter saw can do. Since both a Radial Arm Saw and a Table Saw are not all that portable I would take a table saw as my first choice in a shop and my Miter saw to suppliment it. Again just my opinion.


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