# Repairing leaking hot water tank



## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

When I was doing my get ready for winter checklist I noticed water leaking around the hot water tank. After closer examination I discovered the water coming from two sources. Firstly, the temperature & pressure relief valve and secondly, the drain for the tank itself.

A short trip to Home Depot (HD) HD and I had with me the replacement parts needed for the repair job. One new Relief valve and a new drain. When I took the old leaky drain out it had a 2" double male nipple attached to the drain itself. I noted the 3/4" thread and thought why not use a simple 3/4" water tap coloured RED for hot water. The other part was easy to just replace the relief valve.

Steps taken to complete the job were as follows:

1) Shut off supply to water tank.

2) Open hot water tap in house.

3) Lift the handle up on the relief valve to bleed off pressure in tank prior to removing any fittings. 

4) open drain on bottom of tank to drain water below the level of the relief valve.

5) Apply t\Teflon tape to both the new water tap 3/4" threads and the Relief valve.

6) Using a crescent wrench remove the old relief valve and thread in new relief valve.

7) Using a pipe wrench remove the 2" nipple and old drain and thread in new red water tap. I used a pair of thick rubber wash gloves so my hands did not get burned. 

8) Test for any leaks and make sure the new water tap valve stops the flow of water.

9) Open the supply of water entering the water tank.

10) When you do this water will commence coming out of the hot water tap you had left opened. Air will bleed off and wait till a steady stream of water is coming out before shutting down the tap to bleed any air trapped in the line.

Here are a few pictures for you to look at.


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## radios (Sep 30, 2009)

it's good you replaced the T&P valve, after a while of leaking, they get clogged with calcium deposits, and won't open, which is extremely dangerous, as the tank can explode if the pressure builds up from a thermostat failure, the water can turn to steam, and explode with such force that it can shoot the heater right up through the floorboards and rafters and reach a height of 500 feet. always lift the handle once a year and check that it works.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Yes very true and good advice. I also find the dip tubes erode as well and should be replaced evry 5 yrs to maximize the capacity of the tank itself.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Growing up here in Alaska, I remember my Dad used to have a garden-hose faucet on the hot water heater drain. He also had a brass garden hose Y.. and would periodically install it drawing cold and hot water together to a hose, for washing the car. 

I make it a habit of draining a bit off of my water heater periodically to drain out sediment. I canned him and he confirmed that he did it to flush out the tank sediment while having warm water for car washing or other uses. I think I need to put a valve-swap on my list! :sold:


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Hey Dan good post.


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## del schisler (Feb 2, 2006)

*leeking water heater*

the teflon take isn't the best to use You should have use pipe dope Teflon tape isn't a seeler It is a lube not a seeler Keep checking for leek's Ask a Qualified Plumber on this I used to work with this stuff


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi del

I will 2nd that 

If you look at the old fitting, they used pipe dope, it's the thing you can't get free and you need to use new fitting when you replace the hot water tank 

Pipe dope holds for every...without leaks ,,

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del schisler said:


> the teflon take isn't the best to use You should have use pipe dope Teflon tape isn't a seeler It is a lube not a seeler Keep checking for leek's Ask a Qualified Plumber on this I used to work with this stuff


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

del schisler said:


> the teflon take isn't the best to use You should have use pipe dope Teflon tape isn't a seeler It is a lube not a seeler Keep checking for leek's Ask a Qualified Plumber on this I used to work with this stuff


I guess it is a matter of opinions on whether to use Teflon or pipe dope. I never stated anywhere in my post that teflon is a sealer. Teflon and pipe dope are both classified as lubricants.

When I work with gas I like to use Yellow teflon rated for gas along with pipe dope but thats just me. Everyone in the trade has a different way of skinning the "Cat". In the end you just want the joint to be sealed.

What actually seals the joint is the first three threads which are tapered to cut into each other to seal the joint. The remaining threads are a straight run sort of speaking. Generally with threaded joints a tight fitting thread will tend to leak compared to a loose fitting thread. 

What caused the leak in the first place was not the threads but the calcium build up over the years which in turn would not let the valve in either one re-seats itself and thus created an opening for water to leak out of it.

I have worked with this stuff for the last 25 years and have not had an issue with it and either has the "qualified plumber" I consult with who happens to be one of my close friends and has been in the trade as a professional ticketed plumber for 30 yrs.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi del
> 
> I will 2nd that
> 
> ...


Not sure I follow you Bobj3


> If you look at the old fitting, they used pipe dope, it's the thing you can't get free and you need to use new fitting when you replace the hot water tank


I did get the drain apart and showed pictures of it taken apart. 

As for using new fittings I did buy new fittings for both the Temperature Relief valve as shown in the photo with the blue coloured box and the new boiler valve with the 3/4" NPT thread.

You never seem Bobj3 to agree with anything I post but hey your entitled to your opinion but I guess the true litmus test will be if you agree if the sky is Blue on a clear day.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dan

I'm sorry I don't agree with you all the time, I have been around the block a time or two and you have done some strange things in the shop update..

I don't mean to make you upset in anyway but I always call them like I see them , sorry 

I will try and play nice from now on 

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TRN_Diesel said:


> Not sure I follow you Bobj3
> 
> I did get the drain apart and showed pictures of it taken apart.
> 
> ...


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

You know Bobj3 you amaze me how you can call what I have done in my shop as strange. You may have been around the block or two but maybe you should come out of your cul-de-sac and realize there is a big world out there.

But you did hit the nail on the head it is "strange" how some people just can't play with others in a sand box. You have what I call the FILM affect on people but I won't elaborate on that becaiuse it is conter productive on what I am trying to say here. 

Enough said I won't waste my time anymore on your negative comments on everything I do or comment on. Just try to be a little more positive with people and try to be a little more humble because you and the rest of us in this forum can always learn from how other people do things no matter how "strange" that appear to be.


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## radios (Sep 30, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi del
> 
> I will 2nd that
> 
> ...


 teflon tape is both a lubricant AND a sealer just like pipe dope, metal that is machined has a rough surface, sometimes you need a microscope to see it, but it's there.. that surface when squeezed against another can leak, either teflon tape or pipe dope fills and seals those microscopic imperfections, making a good seal, the real reason pipe dope is used in mass manufacturing is it's easier and quicker to use, you don't have to count the wraps and make sure you keep it from the end of the connection, you just brush it on, and it's good for gas too. i've used teflon tape for 30 years and never had a leak either on water, gas, or air.. Thread seal tape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

One thing I never check is the T&P safety valve. They are guaranteed to leak if you do. I have never had one re-seal after testing, so I just stopped doing it.


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## radios (Sep 30, 2009)

AxlMyk said:


> One thing I never check is the T&P safety valve. They are guaranteed to leak if you do. I have never had one re-seal after testing, so I just stopped doing it.


 here's a good reason to do it. How to Test your T&P Valve if your valve leaks after testing it was already bad or the temperature or pressure inside the tank is too close to the opening point, being on the verge of opening anyway.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

radios said:


> teflon tape is both a lubricant AND a sealer just like pipe dope, metal that is machined has a rough surface, sometimes you need a microscope to see it, but it's there.. that surface when squeezed against another can leak, either teflon tape or pipe dope fills and seals those microscopic imperfections, making a good seal, the real reason pipe dope is used in mass manufacturing is it's easier and quicker to use, you don't have to count the wraps and make sure you keep it from the end of the connection, you just brush it on, and it's good for gas too. I've used teflon tape for 30 years and never had a leak either on water, gas, or air.. Thread seal tape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I agree but there is Teflon tape that is only rated for gas use only. When I had my Gas line inspected the person doing the inspection made sure I used the Teflon rated for Gas. I had to show him the roll I used and he picked it up and read the label on the Teflon roll where it stated it was rated for Gas use. At Home Depot there is a yellow teflon tape rated for gas and then a White thinner one rated for Water. I asked my Plumber buddy what the difference is about the two Teflon tapes and he showed me by ripping the Teflon tape.

The white tape rated for water leaves a thin thread and can potentially clog a gas orifice and hence is not rated for Gas usage. On the other hand the Yellow Teflon rated Gas not tear the same and have the fine thread when ripped.


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## radios (Sep 30, 2009)

yes i only used the gas rated tape for gas..


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Dan,

Good write up. I'd like to add that, technically, you're supposed to drain your hot water tanks each yr. I'm not exactly sure on how long before one does need to replace the tank completely, I think it's around the 12-15yr mark. Had one that actually lasted 30yrs but, was full of rust and the baffles inside were burning out. (Gas fired water heater). 

It's funny that there's always a difference in opinion about "pipe dope" and "teflon tape". I've used both, never once have I had a leak from either. One is simply easier to work with than the other.


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## TRN_Diesel (Feb 24, 2009)

Yes they do recommend you drain the tank but it has been my experience most of the stuff comes out in the first couple of minutes.

This tank is on its last legs I think and will have to be changed out soon.

It is funny went over to a friends house tonight for Thanks Giving Dinner and his hot water heater is not working because the Thermocouple is malfunctioning. The thread on it though is left handed and I have never seen that so I told him he will have to go to speciality plumbing store to get the part. All the thermocouples at HD and RONA were right hand thread.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

If you want to be conscientious, you may want to consider replacing the tank's anode rod--which usually looks like a 1-1/8" bolt at the top of the tank. The anode rod is made of aluminum (sometimes magnesium) and protects the tank from rust by sacrificing itself to corrosion--instead of the tank. Once it's eaten up, the tank starts rusting big time. This is what kills tanks.

I just replace mine at 8 years. The rod I removed was about 75% corroded. I lucked out---the folks at my Ace Hardware store *gave* me two free anodes. They had a flood several years earlier, had to dispose of several water heaters, and pulled good parts off of them. The fact that these "free" rods sat around in their store 2 years before someone asked for them, makes me think that not many people are performing this maintenance function.

I used a socket and breaker bar from my 3/4" drive ratchet set--and that was hard enough. I don't think anything much less hairy than that would do the job--the bolt head is pretty shallow. You need good overhead clearance to pull the anode rod up, and it _could_ be as long as the tank is tall--but not usually. Seal threads with pipe dope (or your favorite sealant...)


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Guys

my Suggestion 

They last about 10 years or so, just replace it and be done with it.. 
It's one thing you want to work from the word go, you don't want water running all over the place..;( easy to replace with a 250.oo dollar price tag the norm but worth every dime.. 


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

I cannot replace mine--so I'm taking *real* good care of it. It was a special size that is no longer available--and I had to drive 350 miles to buy the very last one available in North America! Coincidentally, it was manufactured in Canada by GSW.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Replacing the anodes is one thing. But, if you have a gas fired heater, there's more than just that rod you have to worry about. What happens if you crack the liner while trying to remove the rod? You may think that that's impossible to do but, the "unexpected" always happens, especially at the least opportune moment. To be honest, replacing them is easier than one thinks. Even if you have to make "adjustments" for the location, it's usually a few hrs spent for replacement. Yes, I do know. I've had to help replace about a dozen already. 

Not trying to disagree with you but, I have to agree with Bj. It's easier to just replace than try to make repairs.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

Sounds very reasonable. Please tell me where I can buy a 20 gallon natural gas water heater... and I'll be happy to replace the one I have. (Please don't ask why only that size will do. It's _truly_ unique to my situation, would take all day to explain, and would bore the pants off of everyone.) I suspect that the manufacturers figured out that 20 gallon natural gas water heaters were so rarely called for--that they just discontinued making them.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

morgantruce said:


> Sounds very reasonable. Please tell me where I can buy a 20 gallon natural gas water heater... and I'll be happy to replace the one I have. (Please don't ask why only that size will do. It's _truly_ unique to my situation, would take all day to explain, and would bore the pants off of everyone.) I suspect that the manufacturers figured out that 20 gallon natural gas water heaters were so rarely called for--that they just discontinued making them.


Mobil home supplier.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

That's what I was thinking of also, it sounds like he lives out in the back woods in a trailer and that is into "Green " big time, by using 7 watt lights ,Sun light,etc. it's been a long time but I recall they had all types of htg."from Mobil home supplier ", it just takes some new type of jets the norm to switch them over,I recall putting one in the shop ( 10 gal.type) that fit under the counter to wash my hands in the shop. 


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable place to search for one--and I have looked. The problem is: no one can sell what isn't manufactured.


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## machinistchest (Jun 24, 2009)

*Fail Safe*

Hey Guys,

All hot water tanks are built with a fail safe .It`s ususlly a 1/16" dia hole drilled about a 1/16" debth, directly in the weld joint,the inside of the tank does rust first and will start to leak first at this point . Depending on the tank warrenty the debth of the drilled hole will vary. If a tank starts to leak at the base it`s telling you to replace the tank, so as not to flood the house.

I often use old water heaters as holding tanks for compressed air. I silver solder the fail safe. They work great! Looks like a TEXAS size pipe bomb...MC

Why do you need gas if you can just plug it into the wall.

http://www.nextag.com/20-gallon-water-heater/compare-html


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

BJ: It's been a long and wild ride and I've made many concessions--but thus far I've been fortunate to have never spent even one night in a trailer! :blink:

It's a two-storey super-insulated frame w/basement. (no axles or wheels!) Rather conventional... even my solar power system is kind of conventional. It's my water heating "system" that would make Rube Goldberg's head spin.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

The OP (Dan) was not really talking about a leaking water heater tank--he described leaking _fittings_, which many people would have a crack at replacing. Replacing fittings is maintenance--I think good maintenance. I think most of us would agree though, that when the tank itself starts leaking, it's a good time to go shopping for a whole new unit. I might save such a unit for John to recycle into an air pressure holding tank (John, I do admire your steady nerve) but, when a tank leaks from a seam, it's water heating days are numbered---unless you know a small Dutch boy with a strong finger that can be pressed into service.

I have two brand new Reliance water heaters with the shells and insulation removed--and I just looked carefully over all the welded seams for that little hole. Perhaps Reliance doesn't play that game. I do see one area along the bottom seam where (for 1") the welding is what looks like a single pass instead of a double pass. Perhaps that's their method. Even if I were a welder (I wish) I wouldn't risk welding there now and messing up whatever they line the tank with these days. As an air tank, perhaps it wouldn't matter.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 
Got you, it just seams a little small for a house,,I use that much hot water for one shower  not to say anything about the BOSS on wash day 
We have a 50 GAL. one, and at times it's to small..
I just put in a new one this year and the old one was about 15 years old and was leaking at the base..we lived in the hills and had to replace them every 5 years or so ,well water is hard on them  we also had a high end filter system..in place..the water in the spring would turn yellow just like what you think it looked like..  real nasty to take a shower in that stuff,it was clean but had that real nasty suffer smell .. in the spring..  I almost had to buy a salt mine in the spring to keep it clean ,some what..

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morgantruce said:


> BJ: It's been a long and wild ride and I've made many concessions--but thus far I've been fortunate to have never spent even one night in a trailer! :blink:
> 
> It's a two-storey super-insulated frame w/basement. (no axles or wheels!) Rather conventional... even my solar power system is kind of conventional. It's my water heating "system" that would make Rube Goldberg's head spin.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

Most water wells in this area produce water with a very strong "rotten egg" smell. I only run my pump once a week or so--pumping water up to a large holding tank buried uphill--and then gravity feeding to house as needed. I really don't mind the taste of the water as it comes directly pump. But once it spends 3 or 4 hours stored in the tank, it loses all odor and taste.

Folks around here with more normal well systems (bladder tank) use various water softening measures. From my standpoint, they're just using water that's too-freshly pumped. Different strokes.

-------------------

I see there are a number of people here who know about plumbing---so maybe I should go ahead and describe my (really) strange hot water system. It will take some time and room--so I will put it in a new thread rather than completely hijack Dan's thread. Give me an hour... I have pictures.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

machinistchest said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> All hot water tanks are built with a fail safe .It`s ususlly a 1/16" dia hole drilled about a 1/16" debth, directly in the weld joint,the inside of the tank does rust first and will start to leak first at this point . Depending on the tank warrenty the debth of the drilled hole will vary. If a tank starts to leak at the base it`s telling you to replace the tank, so as not to flood the house.
> 
> ...



I have a serious issue with this. Can you say "BOOM"!! These tanks aren't meant to hold compressed air. The tank will swell and shrink, over time, you'll get that "BOOM"!! I just hope no one is around it when it does. 

Several yrs ago, there was an article in the local paper. A fellow used the old pressure tank from his water well. Used it for that same purpose, compressed air. To make a long story short, his 5yr son was killed when the tank exploded. Hot water tanks will do the same, there have been many times, these tanks exploded.

Sorry for my rant but, thank safety first people.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

morgantruce said:


> Yes, that sounds like a perfectly reasonable place to search for one--and I have looked. The problem is: no one can sell what isn't manufactured.


Have you considered an "on demand" heater? It would seemingly give the well a chance to recover between uses.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

BigJimAK said:


> Have you considered an "on demand" heater? It would seemingly give the well a chance to recover between uses.


I have considered it even though it would add to propane costs. Going that way would allow me to _"squeeze whatever I can"_ out of the natural gas and just use propane when I absolutely had to. As it's evolving, I'm squeezing more and more from the natural gas. 

Other possibilities involve employing my Snorkel stove from the hot tub or cobbling up one of those "Mexican" type water heaters--although I'm not really looking for _more_ ways to burn wood. I've done everything I possibly can to reduce my wood burning---down to about 2 cords annually (in an area where most neighbors are going through twice that amount.)


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

They make on-demand for natural gas too.. is that an option?


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

No Jim, that would just run down my meager natural gas pressure down to nothing in about five minutes. Years ago, in a not-too-well-thought-out plan, I bought a kit for my Onan generator to switch it's appetite for gasoline to an appetite for natural gas. I installed all of the equipment.. and pressed the "Start" button. It fired right up! _"Oh Boy: Free generator time!"_

About two minutes later, the generator coughed to a stop. It had run the gas pressure in my system down to nothing. The next day I was able to re-start it.. for a minute or so. What was I thinking???

I made a few phone calls, and spoke with a friend who worked at a nearby plant where propane is "made" (actually stripped out from the zillions of cubic feet of natural gas that is produced in this region--along with butane and other stuff.) He volunteered to supply me with 100 pound tanks of propane--which employees were given... at that time. I had four 100 pound tanks... and soon i was running my generator on propane. Well, to make a long story short, I was just amazed at how quickly that generator went through a tank of propane! It ran very cleanly and started almost instantly, but it really sucked that propane up fast: so fast, that I was embarrassed to be leaning on my friend to replace it. It's one thing to use a tank of propane to cook with for six months... but this generator was going through a tank in less than two weeks! I switched it back to gasoline and sold the conversion kit on eBay.

Back to the on-demand water heaters... they also use a lot of gas in a short time. Might be OK with propane, but not with the limited natural gas supply I have.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

The good ol fashioned "gas" engine isn't an never will be very "efficient" with the use of propane. Several yrs ago, used to see pick-up trucks running around town using propane.... the gas mileage... lets just say that at the time, a jet engine was more efficient. The only good thing about a propane engine is, it does run clean.


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

As a fuel for engines, propane seems to enjoy great popularity in the area of "back up power generators." Here you have an engine that sits around waiting for power outages. While it is true that they are supposed to be "exercised" at routine intervals, there is no way that you could depend on a gasoline or diesel fueled engine to start up on demand after long periods of inactivity. Such fuels cannot be stored indefinitely. Propane stores very well. It hardly matters that the propane isn't too efficient as a fuel in back up power generation. It's not being called upon to run day, after day, after day. Most folks would agree that power outages couldn't be rare enough.

During periods of power outage--when my distant neighbors are frantically trying to start el-cheapo gasoline generators and then shuttling them around between various deep freezers by flashlight--I am blissfully unaware of such privation. I may not have a lot of power available, but it is indeed a very rare situation when I lose it. I have several sources of power and many layers of backup--whether it's heating water, washing clothes, obtaining water, lighting, cooking or communicating. 

To be honest, I do occasionally miss being able to walk or take a short hop to all the things a decent city offers. If some outfit like the Metropolitan Museum of Art (or even a nice Pizza joint) decided to open a branch_ near my barn_, I'd be very grateful. Having internet access though, is a wonderful thing. (maybe not for a double cheese pie with thick crust...)


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## machinistchest (Jun 24, 2009)

The 20 gal were designed for the homes that have 4,000 plus sq feet or so as a auxillary tank to be used in the bathroom that can sometimes as far away as 75-100 feet away. they are placed under the sink and hooked up to the cold water line so one didn`t have to run (for five minutes) and draw hot water from the main tank thus leaving 75-100 foot of hot water in the pipes just to brush ones teeth. Is there a cost savings? probably, just in water alone. the gas heated type most likley discontinued due to the avaiability of a gas line.

In my earlier post regarding holding tanks for compressed air, I forgot to mention that the relief valve (150 PSI) was left in the tank. I`m sure the tank is rated for more than 150, however an OLD RUSTY TANK can be much weaker. It`s been twenty years without any problems, however I don`t advise this . Rather be safe than sorry...mc


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gene

You do know that you don't need hot water tanks anymore, right 
Many new systems on the market place one of them below.

Learn about Tankless - Rinnai

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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Gene, weren't you the Mr. August centerfold for Mother Earth News?? 

jk!! *S*..

you're correct about the reliability of propane, however, having some experience with propane backup generators on a commercial level..99 percent of the time, it ain't the gas, its the engine that fails due to any number of reasons.. primarily neglect....occasionally water in the line presents a problem..


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## morgantruce (Dec 21, 2009)

Neither gas or electric tankless water heaters would work for me. I've explained why in another thread.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gene

Sorry I miss that one, when the post get to long I pass over them  I just hate manuals  LOL LOL 

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morgantruce said:


> Neither gas or electric tankless water heaters would work for me. I've explained why in another thread.


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## Larry Strawson (Feb 11, 2009)

Long thread, lost of good information here, subscribed to learn more possibly


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