# Why my SHARPENER failed...



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Here's photo documentation of what FAILED...

I located in my "on-hand" inventory a piece of 1/2" plate glass with nice edges. I cleaned it with: razor blade scraper, Windex and Rubbing Alcohol. The glass is sitting atop of 4- "Bench Cookies" and on a workbench. I purchased (waterproof) sandpaper in grits of 320, 600 & 1500. I also purchased spray adhesive. The sandpaper came in size 9" x 11". Since the dimensions of the glass are 29" x 12" and I wanted 3- "long" strips of sandpaper, it was decided to cut the sandpaper into 3- equal sections (3 1/2" x 9") per sheet of each grit. This gave me sandpaper necessary to make 3- parallel runs of sanding paper 27" long on the same piece of glass. There is nothing magic about these glass dimensions, it is simply something I had "on-hand".

After making this, I have to look-back and say I did a sloppy job of execution. My adhesive spray didn't dispense as cleanly as I had hoped (brand new can), but rather shot-out kinda lumpy and bubbly. It still appeared to be okay, until I applied the J-roller to achieve smoothness, which is where my problems occurred: The overspay came-out from the underside of the left piece of paper and smeared on top of the leading edge of the center piece. This was also repeated from center piece to the right piece. For this reason, my 320 strip looks (and is) quite sloppy!

It is for this reason that my coarsest paper strip has glue smears. My middle and far strips (600 & 1500) did not suffer from the over spray as did the near (320) strip.

Conclusion: I need to get better adhesive-spraying technique. This yields a pretty convenient set of sharpening "runways". After glue cured, I gave this a try and it worked amazingly well! I will soon replace the 320 strip with another neater application.

Cleanup was a mess! :nono:I should have done some work with masking tape and applied the 3- strips individually, but that's how I learn some things. Next version will be better and I am going to also experiment with carpet tape in lieu of spray adhesive. My Dad used to say to me, "Son, if you can learn from your mistakes - you will become a genius, because you sure can screw-up a lot of projects!"

I hope this helps some of you who may be thinking of making something similar!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Otis

A little trick learned from using spray contact adhesive (the stuff you apply using a spray gun) - always mask off the area you want to spray using offcut rips of hardboard or 3mm (1/8in) MDF. It's scrap, unlike cardboard it won't blow away, and you can use it a number of times before it gets so clogged up with glue that nobody wants to toucjh it!

Regards

Phil


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Thanks, Phil. I am at the left end of a right-oriented learning curve when it comes to spray adhesive. I have lots of the blue painter's tape, how well will that stuff work for this application?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

OPG3 said:


> Thanks, Phil. I am at the left end of a right-oriented learning curve when it comes to spray adhesive. I have lots of the blue painter's tape, how well will that stuff work for this application?


Probably OK, Otis, but I've generally just used loose offcuts (because they're cheap). Use them a lot when I'm laminating Formica and the like. Very similar principle

Regards

Phil


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Otis, in addition to commiserating on your frustration with the glue I also wanted to say how much I like the clever way you used two tapes to show the size of the glass. A neat trick that gives a lot of information in a simple manner.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Otis, did you consider cutting the glass into three strips and maybe insetting them into a wooden frame? That would protect the glass and make it easier to move about?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Otis, anytime I glue sandpaper down I like to use Lee Valley's fish glue. It stays water soluble forever so it is easy to wipe up and makes reuse easy. I just don't know if it will stick to glass well enough. I find mdf flat enough for my needs.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Oliver, Thank you. As you noticed I was just trying to convey more with less. My concrete form business has 1,600 standard shapes and sizes that can be fabricated with standard instructions that are in a book for all those who work in fabrication. We also manufacture _thousands_ of custom sizes, and for those I create placement plans for field use and detailed shop cards for the warehouse guys to fabricate from. Some of them are "non-valedictorian material" and for that reason it needs to be very close to idiot-proof.
Mike, That would be a great idea and certainly easier to reach; but I do not have the facilities to grind glass. If someone were to use something like MDF, it would especially work well. Most of the glass I have on-hand is what I had left after moving here in 2004. Soon after the move, I made my snake room have 10- built in cages and about 30- "off the shelf cages". My collection was about 120-135 snakes until I retired in 2001, so the cages that were built by a cabinet shop were dismantled and/or sold. The cabinet shop built cages to my specs with sliding glass fronts - hence quite a bit of glass with really nice edges.
Thanks guys for your kind words!
Otis


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Chuck, I almost gave you a call about that fish glue - it is probably something that would work perfectly! If carpet tape doesn't work well, that will be my next choice.
Thanks very much,
Otis


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## jsears (Apr 5, 2012)

Otis..

If I understand correctly, you applied your adhesive to the glass and then put the paper on. I would suggest that you spray the adhesive to the back of the paper, let it dry for a couple of minutes, and then lay the paper on the glass. I never spray directly on the base piece of anything. Always on the piece that I am attaching.

As for clean up, Mineral Spirits will remove any adhesive residue/overspray almost immediately. 

Hope this helps.

Jim


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Jimbo, 

Thanks very much for that suggestion! The sharpener actually works quite well (as-is) and I have actually sharpened a couple of chisels on it already. "Razor sharp" in just about 4 or 5 strokes on each "lane". The (adhesive) sloppiness that I applied needs a much better skill set, but with these instructions I feel good that this can be done better. A couple of my worker guys are very good with spray cans and their work is perfection. This is one of the myriad of reasons that AS A TEAM we've been able to create some really nice work. Some parts, I have been good at; yet others are deserving of a title of comedy. I will do another trial run early this week, but today was church, followed by lunch, then a nap & then my wife and I will watch a movie "Argo" here at home from DVD.

Mike's suggestion of thinner strips is good, but I have no ability to cut tempered glass - I am told it shatters when cut; however I can cut thin strips of MDF "till the cows come home". Chuck (above) recommended "Fish Glue", which should work good on MDF, but actually I bought "Waterproof Sandpaper" to be able to use this wet.
I still have some experimentation to do, but now with these tips from friends and fellow members, I am seeing that this "racetrack" method can work well.

Thanks again to everyone!
Otis


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## giusajob (Jul 15, 2012)

Its easier with the 3m pressure sensitive adhesive backed abrasive such as the 3m lapping film from workshop heaven


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OK, I wouldn't have it on the 'cookies', I'd want the glass on a flat surface. 
And, I would have used water to hold the paper down. 
Actually, I'd also make a frame for the glass, but that isn't absolutely a must do thing, but nice to have.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Giusajob, Thanks for that suggestion - I will look for a source for that sandpaper.

Theo, It is just on the bench cookies for me to make it easier to work on and I felt it would help with the photos (I need all of the help I can get in this area). You mentioned, 


> I would have used water to hold the paper down.


I am uncertain of what you're referring to here, Should I have looked for some sandpaper that gets sticky when it is wet?

The reason for me not having a frame was to enable submersion in water, and quite frankly; I am thinking a frame would make things like replacement of worn sandpaper to be problematic. In this situation, I felt simpler was better. I am, though; open for suggestions here.

*Thanks to both of you for these ideas*, this is something that I felt would make sharpening an easier chore than going [more] repetitively on a shorter runway. The glass was/is simply a leftover. I can still make a nice smooth path of 27 inches long, but for something longer (which I have glass for) my short arms may not reach.

Otis


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Okay, Giusajob (first let me welcome you to the Router Forums. We are glad to have you as a fellow member. I have now seen the 3M PSA sheets - that is definitely something I need to get and experiment with. I cannot tell you why I didn't think of that, because one of my power sanders is a benchtop that takes belts and discs (and those are 3M PSA discs). It made me feel a bit silly to have not thought of that!

Theo, I am now thinking this must have been what you're referencing "using water".

Thanks again, Guys!

Otis


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Otis,
I tried the fish glue on glass and it won't hold good enough. Maybe if the glass was scratched up but you want to use the paper with water so that wouldn't work anyway.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Chuck, Thank you for checking-into that for me. After remembering about the potential of immersing this from time-to-time, I thought that the Fish Glue probably won't be my best choice for _this_ project. This thought also nullifies the use of MDF or a wooden frame and possibly the PSA. Honestly, I don't even know how the 3M spray adhesive will work in the wet environment. I'll just need more experimentation.

Thanks again for checking that!

Otis


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## IRONMULE31014 (Feb 16, 2013)

ou-oh


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Monday: Well today I removed the 320 lane to make room for improvement. Clean-up was easy with mineral spirits as has been recommended by a fellow member. After complete removal of the coarse lane, I took the glass with 2- lanes (600 & 1500) and submerged about a foot of it in my basement laundry sink. Being able to do this periodically will be really handy for cleaning the strips. I am going to give the glass, etc. a couple hours to air-dry and then check for adhesive tenacity. I will also replace lane 1 (320) with more of the same sandpaper and adhesive - but this time I will only apply the adhesive to 1/3 sheets in succession. J-Rolling of the 1/3 sheets will be complete prior to the successive sheets to prevent my problem from the first trial run.

By the way, the Bench Cookies actually do give an advantage when using this glass base - if it were simply sitting atop the workbench - it slides around. The Bench Cookies actually have some traction material that helps to keep the assembly from sliding.

Thanks for all of your help guys.

Otis


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Tuesday afternoon: I have achieved COMPLETE SATISFACTION by modifying my racetrack sharpener based on several of the suggestions offered herein by fellow members!
*Phil P*, your idea of masking with something otherwise waste worked well! I used that along with several other ideas. *Mike* suggested a framed and narrower assembly - this will work great for many people. Since I have the advantage of a convenient and large laundry sink, I felt that _for my needs_ it would work best for me to have something submersible in water. *Chuck* recommended "Fish Glue" and MDF and if it were not for me needing this to be completely waterproof, that would be fantastic. *jsears* made a couple of excellent recommendations which were to spray adhesive on the backs of the sandpaper (rather than on the glass) and to clean-up with mineral spirits. Both of Jim's recommendations were employed today and my results are superb! The submersion test from yesterday went well and after a couple hours to air-dry the paper is still tough and tenacious! Interestingly, I had tried acetone on day 1 (before my original post) and it did not work very well at all, but the mineral spirits worked really easily.
I now have a 29x12x1/2" plate glass with 3- 3.5" wide by 27" long "lanes" in grits of 320, 600 & 1500. The *Sharpening Racetrack *is now up and running!
Thanks to all who contributed! I guess I could have sent a letter to a magazine and then if I am lucky I might have an answer in 3 or 4 months! One of several hundreds of reasons that this forum is so nice!

*Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia*Maker of prototypes of some of the oddest things you could ever imagine. Rarely do these look nice, but they satisfy my client's needs.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OPG3 said:


> I am uncertain of what you're referring to here, Should I have looked for some sandpaper that gets sticky when it is wet?


Nope. Just water on the back should do it, then it'll be held in place by surface tension.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

*Why my SHARPENER succeeded...*

Theo (and others), Quite possibly I should have been more complete in my initial description of the _goal for my build_. I used glass and waterproof sandpaper in order to be able to periodically wash and/or submerge the entire sharpener. Since it has been completed and performs exactly as hoped, maybe I should now say, "Why my SHARPENER *succeeded*". As it turned out, *Jim Sears* gave me the best reply pertinent to my actual goal...that was to apply the glue to the paper rather than the glass. I had earlier cut 3- strips of each "grit" and sprayed the entire (clean and dry) glass with the adhesive. So far so good. In my effort to get everything glued-down as smoothly as possible, I used a J-Roller to compress the sanding strips and therein lies the problem - squeeze-out of glue went from the underside of strip 1 to the upperside of strip 2, and so forth. The other super helpful suggestion was to clean-up with mineral spirits. I had been trying Acetone, which just smeared the adhesive.
What actually worked perfectly was for me to remove what was sloppy (everything), clean-up with mineral spirits, clean and dry the glass, cut new abrasive strips and spray the adhesive on the back and adhere said strips one at a time, J-Roll each strip individually and use mineral spirits to make a clean surface for each successive strip.
Actually, my "parts" all worked well initially; but my failure was in sequencing and choice of solvents. It may say on the spray can what solvent would have worked best, but my eyes are not that good to read text approximately 1/128" of an inch tall.
Now, having used this (properly made) SHARPENER; I can honestly say that I am easily able to achieve razor sharpness with about 3-5 strokes on each 27" long strip. I have fully submerged this thing and even scrubbed it clean and it works better than I could have ever hoped.
NOTE: I almost used Corian (which I also have left-overs of), but due to the transparency of the glass, I can assure my adhesive is tight more easily. I was also afraid that when scraping-off paper and adhesive when replacement is due, there may become some "gouging" into the Corian, this doesn't happen with glass.
Thanks very much to all of you who have participated!
Otis Guillebeau (oddity specialist) from Auburn, Georgia


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