# Are There Any Negatives To The Dowel Max?



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Other than price, does naybody that has used or knows about the Dowel Max, have anything negative to say about it. I'd like to invest in one, but because of the relative hight price compared to other systems for doweling, I need ask this question before jumping in. My problem is that like so many of us, I love nice tools that are well made, work well, and are enjoyable to use.

Jerry


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jerry.....

Just last week I had an opportunity to check one of these out. Judging by the box and condition of the tool, I believe it was an older version. However, really no different than what is advertised on the current website. I did not have the opportunity to try it out but I will say that two things came to mind right off. 1st was just how solidly built the unit was and 2nd was that it would last me a lifetime. Like you, I'm interested to hear what some real world thoughts are....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

They appear really well built but very pricey. There is no reason to believe you would ever wear one out, only the drill bushings which are cheap. The two things I would comment about are, one, how much will you use it?
And two, it isn't that hard to make a home made version of it with parts from Lee Valley (the drill bushings, I have a bunch of them already). I make my own drill guides purpose built for each job and they are easily built out of scrap.
Bushings and Inserts - Lee Valley Tools


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## Leifs1 (Dec 16, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> They appear really well built but very pricey. There is no reason to believe you would ever wear one out, only the drill bushings which are cheap. The two things I would comment about are, one, how much will you use it?
> And two, it isn't that hard to make a home made version of it with parts from Lee Valley (the drill bushings, I have a bunch of them already). I make my own drill guides purpose built for each job and they are easily built out of scrap.
> Bushings and Inserts - Lee Valley Tools


Where do one find those bushings in mm ?

regards Leif


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> They appear really well built but very pricey. There is no reason to believe you would ever wear one out, only the drill bushings which are cheap. The two things I would comment about are, one, how much will you use it?
> And two, it isn't that hard to make a home made version of it with parts from Lee Valley (the drill bushings, I have a bunch of them already). I make my own drill guides purpose built for each job and they are easily built out of scrap.
> Bushings and Inserts - Lee Valley Tools


Charles,
True confession, the Dowel Max is more of a luxury than a real nead, if I buy it, and I think rhat I will, it will be just because I want it, kind of like buying the 17" Band Saw instead of a 14" saw that would have worked just fine for me, but, man, do I like the larger saw. 

Sometime back I bought the Kreg system, it works just fine, but I almost never use it due to coming to the philosophy that higher quality woodworking projects don't use screws, but the Kreg system is great for quick jobs such as shelving and projects that are not intended to be high end furniture work, but I will be the first to admit that using the Kreg system as well as MDF can be and is used on nice projects, it's just a personal belief of mine.

So far, no negatives have surfaced on the Dowel Max, and that is encouraging.

Jerry


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

> Are There Any Negatives To The Dowel Max?


YES.

Jerry, as in most things having to do with woodworking, there are several methods to achieve a necessary task. There are hand tools (think: Elbow Grease) and there are power tools. With dowelling wooden parts together, there are several possible routes; I have just 5 minutes ago completed viewing the DowelMax website and its videos and its products and options with prices. I wouldn't give much money for that contraption, and here is why - it is GROSSLY OVERPRICED and it is LIMITED IN FUNCTIONS. The "off-the-shelf" unit allows for hole sizes of 3/8" diameter. You can optionally purchase a unit for hole sizes 10mm in diameter. The only other hole diameter that I see offered is 1/4" diameter and that set of drill bushings will set you back $49.99 + delivery. So, if you are only going to use those two diameters (1/4" & 3/8") don't you think that is a lot of money? 

Certainly, if you are going to "Showcase Shiny Tools" that unit may be nice, but the funtionality is VERY LIMITED. Go to the top of a (Router Forums) page and in the community search box look for "Leichtung" and see what I wrote not that long ago with a photo of a much more versatile dowelling jig in my opinion.

(Cherryville) Chuck's recommendation is even less restrictive. One can easily make project-specific dowelling jigs for whatever the need - you are only limited by the dowel and drill bit diameters that you have available. I use more dowels than anyone that my suppliers deal with and I use a variety of methods!

It takes a well-developed skillset to produce nice pieces of furniture, but it only takes money to build a collection of shiny tools!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Leifs1 said:


> Where do one find those bushings in mm ?
> 
> regards Leif


I'm not sure Leif but you could always take one of the ones from LV and drill it out to the size you want if you can't find a metric source. You could try contacting Lee Valley and ask them if they know. They are good people to deal with. 

The brad point drill bits that LV sells are excellent quality and they have some metric sizes but you might want to buy the 5/8" size to install the bushings with, although 16mm is very close.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Also a thought just popped-into my head that in a weird way may relate to some readers as being pertinent in this conversation...
We had a neighbor with a large dog. The dog was notorious for getting out of fences. The dog would also break chains and chew on leashes. He should have named the dog "Houdini". The neighbor bragged to us neighbors that his dog problem was solved with an invisible fence. We all knew about "invisible fences" and just smiled as he explained his *"panacea"* of solutions to the escaping dog drama. Sure enough, a month or two later another dog (without a shock collar) entered the yard and killed my neighbor's dog.

Moral: Rarely will one [tool] work for all situations - so we must develop the skillset to improvise when necessary.

Otis


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Charles,
> True confession, the Dowel Max is more of a luxury than a real nead, if I buy it, and I think rhat I will, it will be just because I want it, kind of like buying the 17" Band Saw instead of a 14" saw that would have worked just fine for me, but, man, do I like the larger saw.
> 
> Sometime back I bought the Kreg system, it works just fine, but I almost never use it due to coming to the philosophy that higher quality woodworking projects don't use screws, but the Kreg system is great for quick jobs such as shelving and projects that are not intended to be high end furniture work, but I will be the first to admit that using the Kreg system as well as MDF can be and is used on nice projects, it's just a personal belief of mine.
> ...


I agree with you Jerry on the Kreg jig. I am not a fan of screws to hold joints together. I am not a fan of the DowelMax either because of the price and its limitations. As Otis pointed out I can do far more with 2-4 bushings for about $12 and some shop scrap than you will ever be able to do with that jig. In fact I've used just one bushing and scraps to make a Euro style shelf pin drilling jig that worked just as well as one worth $150. The Dowel Max won't do that. What clued me in to the possibilities with using the bushings was the picture in the LV link that I gave. Go back, look at the picture and let your imagination take over. That's what happened to me when I first saw it.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I agree with you Jerry on the Kreg jig. I am not a fan of screws to hold joints together. I am not a fan of the DowelMax either because of the price and its limitations. As Otis pointed out I can do far more with 2-4 bushings for about $12 and some shop scrap than you will ever be able to do with that jig. In fact I've used just one bushing and scraps to make a Euro style shelf pin drilling jig that worked just as well as one worth $150. The Dowel Max won't do that. What clued me in to the possibilities with using the bushings was the picture in the LV link that I gave. Go back, look at the picture and let your imagination take over. That's what happened to me when I first saw it.


Some people are more naturally talented and blessed with the ability to make their own tools, some of the talent and/or skills come from many years of working with wood, buit I'm 76 years old and don't have the time to develop the skills that some people like Otis and other members of the forum have. I do improvise when I have to and understand how to do what I want to do but not nearly at the level of those that have been at it for years. I have a neighbor that can improvise like what is being aluded to in this thread. 

Jerry


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Some people are more naturally talented and blessed with the ability to make their own tools, some of the talent and/or skills come from many years of working with wood, buit I'm 76 years old and don't have the time to develop the skills that some people like Otis and other members of the forum have. I do improvise when I have to and understand how to do what I want to do but not nearly at the level of those that have been at it for years. I have a neighbor that can improvise like what is being aluded to in this thread.
> 
> Jerry


Did he have a dog? :cray:


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

I've had mine for a couple years and used it on half a dozen projects. And while it's expensive, for most budgets, it works great! Easy to set up and create joints. It's a tool I'll hand down to the younger generation. Yes I could have cut mortise and tenon joints but I'm not addicted to traditional woodworking techniques. I did have a question and their customer service guy was easy to work with. 

I've made projects using dowel centers but this is much easier. 

I've found no downside other than the price.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That's a nice job and if you used the Dowel Max to do it then it obviously works, which I would never dispute. It looks like it will do a dandy job of what it is designed for. It's just that for an investment of about $20 for a couple of sizes of bushings I can do the same thing and more. This is kind of like the argument about having a router lift or using a plunge router. You do need a drill press to do it my way but if you don't have one you could buy a small cheap one instead of a Dowel Max which to me would be a better investment.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> That's a nice job and if you used the Dowel Max to do it then it obviously works, which I would never dispute. It looks like it will do a dandy job of what it is designed for. It's just that for an investment of about $20 for a couple of sizes of bushings I can do the same thing and more. This is kind of like the argument about having a router lift or using a plunge router. You do need a drill press to do it my way but if you don't have one you could buy a small cheap one instead of a Dowel Max which to me would be a better investment.


Charles,
Why would anybody spend good money for a tool that they don't need? If you can do a job with your personal skills and talent, you sure should do so. As for me, I don't have your skills, not everybody does, and we without the skills need tools that will work for us, in this case the Dowel Max being discussed, is a tool that I think that I'd like to have. I have no idea what you are talking about when you describe how you do what the Dowel Max does, but I certainly admire your knowledge, it's probably hard for you to grasp the level of ignorance that I have about what you just take for granted. It's just a personal thing, nobody is right or wrong, we are just different, right?

Jerry


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> It's just a personal thing, nobody is right or wrong,
> 
> Jerry



Thats it in a nutshell!!!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Agreed. Jerry if you think that the Dowel Max will improve your woodworking then go for it. It appears to be a very well made tool and from the design I don't see how you can go wrong. Before I invested in a mortising setup for my DP I used dowels almost exclusively for my joints. I have one of these doweling jigs which was in a mixed box of odds and ends I won at an auction which is similar to the Dowel Max in function but cheaper. Self-Centering Dowelling Jig - Lee Valley Tools


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I've had a revolving turret model from Craftsman for forever. Don't dowel much but it has always done the job for me. Mutiple drill guide sizes and capacity to offset from center.

Review: Craftsman Revolving Turret Doweling Jig - circa 1950's through 1970's - by David Grimes @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community










craftsman doweling jig | eBay


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Agreed. Jerry if you think that the Dowel Max will improve your woodworking then go for it. It appears to be a very well made tool and from the design I don't see how you can go wrong. Before I invested in a mortising setup for my DP I used dowels almost exclusively for my joints. I have one of these doweling jigs which was in a mixed box of odds and ends I won at an auction which is similar to the Dowel Max in function but cheaper. Self-Centering Dowelling Jig - Lee Valley Tools


The key advantage (difference) of the Dowel Max is that it registers to the face (and one end) of your work and is *not* self centering as most of the other doweling jigs.

Good luck with your decision Jerry, whatever you decide with be right for you.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

berry said:


> The key advantage (difference) of the Dowel Max is that it registers to the face (and one end) of your work and is *not* self centering as most of the other doweling jigs.
> 
> Good luck with your decision Jerry, whatever you decide with be right for you.



Barry,
I don't quite get what you are saying about the jig. Is what you are saying a positive or a negative, can you be a little more detailed about what you are telling me.

Jerry


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Not intending to butt in on Berry, but I'd have to say big advantage. If you're going to dowel the skirt of a table to the legs and the skirt is 3/4" stock , the legs are 2", and you want a 1/8" reveal; then self centering isn't what you want. You need adjustability and single face referencing. In this case dowel centers would be referenced 3/8" off the face for the ends of the skirt and 1/2" off the mating face of the legs.


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## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

Thank you, GulfCoastGuy, for that helpful piece of information. What if you DO want the dowels centered?


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I'd use calipers or I also have a jig similar to this.










A larger centering jig for wider stock - by Bob #2 @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

Sorry I wasn't clear, but it's exactly what Patrick said.


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