# Choices for Table Router?



## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

The Table Routing sub-forum seems to be about just tables, so I thought I'd post this here. AND, I am truly sorry for posting such a broad question but after checking the stickies, I can't find any that address this. If there is one, pointing me to it will be fine.

I am looking to buy a new router for mounting on a table. It will very likely be mounted without a lift at first, but ultimately I do want to make a lift. I'd like to be cost-effective, I think I can spend somewhere around $350. Less is good too. 

I am and will always be a hobby woodworker. "What do you want to build?" is a great question but honestly the answer is equally "I don't know" and "everything." I do understand that no one router/table will be everything to everyone. I have to believe there's a great place to start, and I may have to interpret some of the guidance for my own purposes.

If the answer is not "buy this", helping guide me to an answer is great too.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Lee;

You'll get lots of advice here from the members on this topic...the question gets asked a _lot_! Nobody likes making the wrong decision.
But when you're making your choice, take Customer Service and quality control into consideration. If things go wrong, that's not the time to discover that the parts aren't available until Never.


Personally, I recently bought the Bosch 1617EVS specifically to mount in a new router table. I already had it's big brother, the 1619EVS plunge, but since I prefer hand held routing, for what I normally do, it's _not_ going in the table, even though i think it's the only plunge that has a spring defeat built in (specifically for RT use).
BUT if after reading and hearing reviews about Bosch you decide the *1617 series* will do just fine, please consider the *1617EVSPK*...it comes with both a plunge _and_ fixed base, for_ under_ your budget.

Good luck!


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

I just read the reviews on The New Woodworker and it really does seem like a very nice offering. They also had some details on the RA1165 Under-Table Base which seems really nice. At least the way the article was written it makes it sound like it addresses all of what I think I need.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, you came to the right place to ask about routers. 

I suggest you look for the Bosch 1617EVSPK combo kit. All of the current kits have the through the table adjustment hole in the fixed base so there is no reason to get the table base; just take the knobs off the fixed base for the same results. This is the set up I used for 10 years trouble free.(still none)

You will find this kit on Amazon for about $220. http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1617EVS...id=1433262197&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+1617evspk

You will want the following accessories to make best use of your router. The RA1151 centering cone; The RA1126 quick change adapter and the RA1100 guide bushing adapter.(this allows you to use PC style guide bushings) You can hold off on the Bosch dust collection accessories if you have a shop vac and build the simple fence with dust collection shown.

Bosch is spoken here!


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Holy moley ... you have a couple routers! 

I can see I'm not going to get talked out of this one. I'll go ahead and tell the wife and take my lumps now.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm another 1617 devotee. The "table base" is really the handheld fixed base without the maple knobs. So...the 1617 EVSPK gets you the fixed base, which mounts well in a table, and affords bit adjustment from above (you do have to reach under table to release and close the latch). I use my plunge bases for pretty much all of the hand-held work. From Mike i learned that under the 1617's base plate is a 3-hole mounting pattern that matches up with the same pattern that Porter Cable uses in the 690, so it's easy to find add-on sub bases and mounting plates. 

Good luck!!

earl


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

So I imagine the "coarse" adjustment is done via the notches in the body, and the fine adjustment is via the adjustment screw? The article I found (which may be dated) said something about the table base having an extension for that screw - is this also present in the fixed base?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, it is actually a socket hole in the end of the fine adjuster screw than can be reached from above the table with an additional small hole you must drill in the mounting plate.

Speaking of mounting plates the Grizzly plate sells for $13 and I recommend you buy 4 of them. You WILL end up with more routers in the future if you are like most of us. The plates can also be converted for special jobs. You can also use the plate mounted router free hand as shown by BrianS while we were building a few Router Workshop style tables.

You can pick up a cheap router and mount it to one of the plates and leave it set up with a round over bit, just swap out routers in the table instead of doing an additional bit change. I have a table set up just for round overs.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Mike said:


> Lee, it is actually a socket hole in the end of the fine adjuster screw than can be reached from above the table with an additional small hole you must drill in the mounting plate.


Gotcha.



Mike said:


> Speaking of mounting plates the Grizzly plate sells for $13 and I recommend you buy 4 of them.


It's almost like you knew what I was going to ask next. 

I found the plate:

Grizzly.com® --

Does that come with the pin-thingie to lever against when freehanding?

Any suggestions for levelling?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Salesman of the Month*

Bosch owes Mike big time!!! :grin:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, it includes the safety starting pin and corner leveling screws.

This should help too:

http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...economy-table-top-install-mounting-plate.html


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dan, it all works out. They send me tools to evaluate. Most companies do.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

That's strange, Mike, I've been waiting for the craft breweries to send me samples to appraise but it hasn't happened yet...


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## katabrontes (Nov 12, 2014)

The centering cone is a great idea. I wish I had known about these when I was mounting my Triton A001 on my table as it would have made it much easier than using the printed template which was very hard to get centred accurately. I did it in the end but the result looks a bit messy.

I bought a Triton A001 router for my table as it incorporates its own lift allowing you to change the height and the bits from above the table. As I have a separate no-volt emergency stop switch on the table I disabled the lock that prevents raising the router with the switch on as it meant I have reach under the table to do that which is awkward. I wouldn't do this unless you have a separate switch. It will void the warranty although you can always put the interlock back on if you have to sent it back for a claim. Its an excellent router and as the cost of a lift for my UJK table costs more than the router it is quite a saving.


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## katabrontes (Nov 12, 2014)

Having just seen the centering cone for the Bosch is UK£25 plus delivery on Axminster's website maybe I wouldn't have bought one anyway! It does seem to come as standard with some of the De Walt router kits but not with my 625!


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Mike said:


> Lee, it includes the safety starting pin and corner leveling screws.
> 
> This should help too:
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...economy-table-top-install-mounting-plate.html


Thanks Mike, appreciate the direction.

I've noticed more than a few of the older posts say there are "Attached Thumbnails" but there do not seem to be any pics. Was there a forum upgrade that wiped them out?


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

katabrontes said:


> Having just seen the centering cone for the Bosch is UK£25 plus delivery on Axminster's website maybe I wouldn't have bought one anyway! It does seem to come as standard with some of the De Walt router kits but not with my 625!


Seems like a guy with a lathe could make one easily enough.


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## PAD3 (Oct 20, 2013)

Bosch 1617 package!!!


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## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

Hi Lee, I have a shop full of routers and most are table mounted. I think all but a couple are plunge routers. I like the Triton routers the best - have 3-of those in tables. All router tables are shop made.

I do like the wooden fence that Mike showed in his post. I'll have to make up some of those. Malcolm / Kentucky / USA


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, I thought that myself. Yes, major changes to the forums and the photos are still there... they just take a long time to load to the new system. Click the link again and give it some time to dig the photos out of history.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Mike said:


> Lee, I thought that myself. Yes, major changes to the forums and the photos are still there... they just take a long time to load to the new system. Click the link again and give it some time to dig the photos out of history.


Okay good - 'cuz you know what they say about pictures. 

Since that is an older thread I'll ask a question here: I notice you suggest purchasing the template for the cutout. I was thinking I could put furring strips + shims surrounding the plate and tape the furring strips down as a template? There's probably a good reason why you did not recommend that?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I used a Bosch 1617 EVSPK for years in my table. But I prefer the Triton TRA001 now. More power, easy to adjust and it has a simple built in lift. But the Bosch will do ya--it is a great machine and the kit has a plunge base too. Mike was right on about the adapters that you'll need. Bosch accessories are very well built and their customer service is great as well. If you want to add a specialized lift later for any reason, the Bosch will fit just about all of them (but check the fit before you buy!). Avoid the Rockler FX lift, it has a squirrely rubber gasket height lock and I could never get mine to stop creeping--which rendered the lift useless. Just my opinion.


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## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

I have the Porter Cable 895 kit which includes a fixed and plunge base. The fixed base is adjustable from the top of the table so you don't need a lift. Good power and easy to swap from fixed to plunge base.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> That's strange, Mike, I've been waiting for the craft breweries to send me samples to appraise but it hasn't happened yet...


I was a business writer for many years (but don't hold the journalist title against me). I was writing a feature on Wisdom Imports, a company that dates back to the Prohibitionists and rum runners. They imported about 30 brands of foreign crafted beers and ales. The company president insisted I couldn't do a proper job on the story unless i took home a sample of everything. The lineup of cans and bottles made a compelling photo that spread across all 6 columns. Of course, I had to sample all of them over the next couple of months...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, the template is in a kit that includes a large inlay bushing with a removable collar; these two items make it super easy to install your mounting plate. The inlay bushing creates 1/2" wide recessed cuts that are also perfect for mounting speakers. I am a firm believer that once you set up a router table you will end up doing it again for yourself and others. Strips will do the job, or a Trend VariJig. Festool offers a similar product for more money.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> I prefer the Triton TRA001 now.


So what's the decision point between those two? The money is nearly the same.



michmags said:


> I have the Porter Cable 895 kit which includes a fixed and plunge base. The fixed base is adjustable from the top of the table so you don't need a lift. Good power and easy to swap from fixed to plunge base.


I used to have a LOT of PC tools. I dated a lady who was a regional sales rep and I may have traded my honor for a tool or two.  My van was broken into and I lost tens of thousands of dollars worth. After that I bought some replacements and the quality had changed drastically. A company owes me nothing, but my personal choice is to not reward a company for making what I think are business decisions that don't meet my needs. Ford and Chevy, I could come up with lots of reasons to tell you a Chevy is better but the truth of it is it's just what I like. So it is with tools - unless PC is a clear winner I'm going to be sending my money elsewhere.



DesertRatTom said:


> I was a business writer for many years [...] The company president insisted I couldn't do a proper job on the story unless i took home a sample of everything.


I feel your pain. I'm a certified Beer Judge and people just want me to taste everything! :surprise::smile:



Mike said:


> Lee, the template is in a kit that includes a large inlay bushing with a removable collar; these two items make it super easy to install your mounting plate. The inlay bushing creates 1/2" wide recessed cuts that are also perfect for mounting speakers. I am a firm believer that once you set up a router table you will end up doing it again for yourself and others. Strips will do the job, or a Trend VariJig. Festool offers a similar product for more money.


Got ya, thanks for explaining.

The pictures on that other post never loaded, but I was able to view the source on the page and manually download the pics. Weird but I have them now.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

What do we think about this one?

http://smile.amazon.com/Bosch-MRC23EVSK-Combination-Fixed-Base-Variable/dp/B002LASDGA

It's on sale today for $269. I don;t see too many differences except for a micro-adjustment and a different switch.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

LBussy said:


> What do we think about this one?
> 
> http://smile.amazon.com/Bosch-MRC23EVSK-Combination-Fixed-Base-Variable/dp/B002LASDGA
> 
> It's on sale today for $269. I don;t see too many differences except for a micro-adjustment and a different switch.


switch in the handle...
led's...

for less even... w/ free shipping...

Factory Reconditioned Bosch MRC23EVSK-RT Modular Router System


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

LBussy said:


> Okay good - 'cuz you know what they say about pictures.
> 
> Since that is an older thread I'll ask a question here: I notice you suggest purchasing the template for the cutout. I was thinking I could put furring strips + shims surrounding the plate and tape the furring strips down as a template? There's probably a good reason why you did not recommend that?


Lee you could easily surround the plate with strips of mdf taped down as a template . I don't see anything wrong with doing it that way and it's been done for years .
You may have to use forstner drill on the inside corners if the corner radius is larger than the router bit . 
I bought an Incra plate because I like there clean sweep insert idea for dust control . The corners are a bigger radius than a lot of other brands so I made a copy of it with a guide bushing and then changed the guide bushing to a smaller size to get an exact copy . I failed a few times and needed to repair the template I built , so I just decided to buy one and be done with it .

If I was to build a router table I would cheat and do what I did . I bought the Incra top and plate and there fence with the LS positioner . I'm going to build the base with drawers to my taste , but I saved a lot of hassle by purchasing there top . The Incra top is a tank at 1.5" thick , super flat and the miter slot and plate is already done for you . Easy peazzy 

Now if I didn't want that much expense, I would buy the Incra plate and there template which is cheap IMO and build a top and fence myself . That's if you have the resources and time to do so .
I'm all for the Bosch 1617 too.

I am going to start a build thread this week as I am making a router table to replace my table saws huge extention . I bought the Incra plate for it as well . Incra makes a really thick and flat aluminum plate.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"*I am going to start a build thread this week* as I am making a router table to replace my table saws huge extention."

It was either that or insulate the garage!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "*I am going to start a build thread this week* as I am making a router table to replace my table saws huge extention."
> 
> It was either that or insulate the garage!


this I gotta see...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> this I gotta see...


Sheesh , not a lot of optimism here :lol:

Well this is if my Bessy clamps show up


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> switch in the handle...
> led's...


Is the switch in handle better? How does that work with a table?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

LBussy said:


> Is the switch in handle better? How does that work with a table?


Lee I want to run an external switch as I think it would be easier than reaching under or inside a dust collection box all the time . Not sure if I can use an external speed control with a PC75182 though ?


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

RainMan1 said:


> Lee I want to run an external switch as I think it would be easier than reaching under or inside a dust collection box all the time . Not sure if I can use an external speed control with a PC75182 though ?


That's kinda what I meant ... if the switch is on the handle it seems like something would be missing if you took the base off. Maybe I'm not envisioning it correctly.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> switch in the handle...
> led's...
> 
> for less even... w/ free shipping...
> ...


I found a post Mike shared some time back on the MRC23 vs the 1617. Would this preference still hold? (since the price is within $20)



Mike said:


> Ok, time for me to eat my words. I got my hands on a MRC23EVSK last year and discovered there were other improvments that make a big difference over my previous favorite the 1617. The full 3" plunge depth is the most in any router I am aware of. The power cord swivels in the motor which is handy when routing circles or ovals. The sub base plates on the fixed and plunge bases are adjustable for true center.(You must buy a centering cone - RA1151) The new hand grips are comfortable and Rick was right: having the trigger switch let's you keep both hands on the router for better control.
> 
> Accessories: the 23 uses the same collets, wrenches, edge guide and quick release guide bushing adapter as the 1617.(RA1126 and RA1100) The RA1177AT dust collection set attaches quick and easy with thumb screws. The VAC005 5 meter dust collection hose works with any standard 2-1/4" vacuum port.
> 
> My pair of Bosch 1617's have been trouble free for over 11 years now and are still an excellent choice. The added features have pushed the MRC23EVSK into position as my new favorite router. The only downside to the 23 is for those who wish to use a router in an aftermarket lift. The 23 must be used in it's bases because of the external power bus. The 1617EVS motor is the industrial router motor of choice for a lift.


I guess you have to leave the base on if you use a lift.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

LBussy said:


> Is the switch in handle better? How does that work with a table?



for a table .. go w/ the 1617...
the '17 is easier to use from a wider range of approach angles...
the LED's and the switch in the handle of the ' 23 are perfect for joinery jigs...
other wise I use the '17 for most everything else...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

LBussy said:


> I found a post Mike shared some time back on the MRC23 vs the 1617. Would this preference still hold? (since the price is within $20)


not sure what you mean...


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> for a table .. go w/ the 1617...
> the '17 is easier to use from a wider range of approach angles...
> the LED's and the switch in the handle of the ' 23 are perfect for joinery jigs...
> other wise I use the '17 for most everything else...


This would be a "One Router to Rule Them All" sort of thing ... it would do double duty for a while. That being the case is there a preference one vs the other?



Stick486 said:


> not sure what you mean...


I just meant if Mike still thought that was the better choice.

So many decisions!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

double duty...
I'd go w/ the '17....


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Lee, it is really tough to beat the 1617. It is easier to work with in a table than the 23 but the added depth the 23 will plunge is a great feature. When table mounting the 23 you can only remove the non switch handle. The 23 will not work in any lift because of the external power bus.

I was going to post photos to clarify all this but they are on a hard drive in a PC I am rebuilding.


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## LBussy (May 31, 2015)

Well that does make sense Mike ... I was wondering HOW the switch was in the handle and what you and others have shared clears it up. 

Sounds like 1617 for now, then if I need a dedicated router for table or hand work, I get the new one and leave the 1617 in the table.


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