# Involving the girls



## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

My little ones love to do what I do, well at least for a few minutes until they get bored. I recently got them their-size ear protection, and they have goggles and aprons from our Lowe's excursions. I was outside routing a dado, and they loved all the sawdust flying. Now, I'm pretty paranoid about them getting injured (more than myself, to be honest), and I want to let them help me, but I'm not sure how.

I know I could let them hand sand or something, but after that I don't know how to let them help me and a) be safe and b) not mess up whatever project I'm working on.

Suggestions?


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Start them on something simple and fast like wooden cut outs they can sand and paint. The 1st thing I can remember letting her work on at about 4 1/2 was a learning clock. 12" diameter 1/2" ply. 

I put "BAMBI" in the VCR, paused the screen on Flower and thumper taped tracing paper on the tube and traced both onto the ply. She was beside herself painting it. I took 2 pieces of metal bridging for hour and minute, she painted them black and then learned how to tell time.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I remember using a old (even then) power sander when young. I don't know how old they are, but I think I was 6 or 7 when I got sanded that desk and helped my mom stain it. I was helping dad by just handing him tools from as long as I can remember (have a memory of it from age 3), but he was rarely using power tools and it was mainly things like hand me that wrench, pliers, screwdriver and stuff like that. I can't remember using any cutting tools outside of my pocket knife until I was 10 (and then when mom would find out she would get mad) and started splitting wood and getting to use the small chainsaw with supervision that year and less the next.

I still have that oak desk, but it has a huge crack in the desk top now that looks like when two sheets of ice meet or for non-northeners, what they show on tv when they do the graphics of two land plates meeting at a fault line. I noticed the crack when I took the clothes piled off it to look at it as I was thinking of using the wood to make a barrister's book case (or at least cover the plywood edges with it) once I get good enough and I wanted to make sure my memory of it being oak was true.

Other than that it was helping to paint (which I always have hated) or staining (which I like) when mom still was able to do that stuff before her allergies got so bad she couldn't even think of doing it.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Chris,

When my son was younger (3 and up) he loved to come out to my shop and I had the same concerns. I used to start my shop work by giving him a piece of 1x4 about 6-12" long and tell him if he'd draw a car (boat, train, plane, etc.) on it, we'd cut it out. Even though I'd do the cutting (then I just had my 14" bandsaw), he thought it was *magic* to actually make what he drew. He'd then usually hapily play with it for a half-hour to an hour near me but at a safe distance while I did some shop work and then I'd get his help picking up all the scraps that hit the floor (which were more than necessary  ) and use my shopvac to suck up all the sawdust. I made sure he knew how much I appreciated his help picking up the scraps, since he could bend over far better than I.. and he loved making the sawdust vacuuming into a game. I'd only get a half-hour to hour of true *production*, the 3-4 hours in the shop together were priceless... and he loved to brag about what "Dad & I" built. As he got older, I added a VS scroll saw to the mix so he could begin cutting his own wood, with my standing looking over his shoulder. 

In HS he took a couple of semesters of wood shop "just for fun" and even today (at 18) enjoys working in the shop... only now its with routers, bandsaws, table saws and the ilk. Yes, he's a normal teenager with lots of time demands on him (friends, rockband, etc.) so its usually likited to a couple of hours at a time, though this last week (his college spring break) we built a 2'x4'x6' tall plant grow-light setup out of 2x4's, ply and 8 four-foot, three-light fluorescent fixtures. He was a trooper sticking in until the end and last night Mom came home with her seeds and starting pots, so it'll be used!

Its nothing fancy but I'll take some pictures and post them in the projects section in case others are interested. Not a lot of routering; just four 6' dados for the shelf supports, but... <g>


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

My son is 12, and in scouts. His last year in cub scouts I let him use the band saw (he was around 10 then) to cut out his pinewood derby car. A couple years before that I let him use the drill press. I also let him use the palm sander fairly early on as well.

While I wouldn't let any kid in scouts start running power tools (heck, I know some adults who shouldn't be) I have found in the case with my son that he CAN learn to safely use power tools and not get injured. I remeber back when I was you, in school I was cutting wood on a table saw around his age now. The most important thing is I am ALWAYS right there with him, making sure he is using them safely. 

Last summer he and I started working a project, as he has been asking me to make sword out of wood that he can hang on his wall. He used the band saw to help shape it, the drumb sander on the drill press, a stationary belt sander to further get the sword into shape. Finally he worked for HOURS with the palm sander with high grit sand paper. The sheer look of pride on his face when he got done sanding when he realized HE, by himself made a piece of wood come out THAT nice was one of those moments I will always remember!

I think if the child is mature enough to have a healthy understanding that a tool can hurt them, and are still willing to learn, that is when you can start teaching them how to safely use a power tool.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

My youngest has always been a fan of the RW videos, and would ask to watch them all the time. The big one would drive nails into a block of wood all day if I let her. They love to go to the tool aisle at the hardware store and play "name the tool".

Over the years they have done more advance stuff, helping create their 'powderpuff' derby cars for girl scouts, helping cut out halloween decorations, etc. They really enjoy sanding and painting the things they cut out.

Mainly they use hand tools, the drill press,scrollsaw and sanders, but I have let them push the SCMS a couple of times (with my hand accompanying them. 

I kick them out of the shop when I use the Router or the TS, mainly for the noise and dust. They have dust masks and hearing protection, but that's just me.

We have very strict rules about using tools in the shop, and we go over them everytime we work on something.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Our grandson loves to come out in the shop, put on the safety glasses and ear muffs and "build" something. It started with just giving him scraps from the cut off bin and helping with hot melt to glue it all together. Then we used the pin nailer to build a bird house. Trust me no bird would go near it, but he was thriled with it. Now I let him use the battery drill to drill holes in a scrap board I mount in the vice or drive screws in. I give him a 1/4" bit so he won't break it. He thinks that's just awesome and will gladly do it for an hour or so. Got to keep an eye on him though as he likes to try to drive the screws into the work bench when I'm not looking. He is 4. You don't mention your daughter's ages but it doesn't take much to entertain them safely when they are young.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Two of my grandsons help a bit around the shop. They are 6 and almost 4. Right now, I do all cutting, drilling, etc. but they help with other things. We have built some birdhouses for Christmas presents- they nailed the pieces together and painted them. Yesterday the youngest one "helped" me stack wood that I'm going to use for a table top. I try to do as much as I can with them, hoping they will remember the time we spent together. Got to fix the roof, it's raining in here!


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

The main thing is to just spend the time with them. I was always with my dad no matter what it was that he did. If it was shoveling, I had my own shovel, if it was working on the car or washing the car, I was his gofer. Cutting wood at first I just loaded the dump truck until enough was cut that he helped. Later one we both cut and loaded and then I did almost all the splitting. It was all just time with Dad and because of that something I wanted to do because that was what I had always done since the beginning. 

I really regret that I didn't/won't be having kids to spend the same time with.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Nieces and nephews could help fill that gap Derek. Even the neighbours kids. I know when I open the garage door I get lots of "lookers". I don't know any of my neighbours well enough to feel comfortable inviting their kids in, but if the kids showed a serious interest I would make time to meet the parents. ALthough that can open a whole can of worms as well.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

CanuckGal said:


> Nieces and nephews could help fill that gap Derek. Even the neighbours kids. I know when I open the garage door I get lots of "lookers". I don't know any of my neighbours well enough to feel comfortable inviting their kids in, but if the kids showed a serious interest I would make time to meet the parents. ALthough that can open a whole can of worms as well.



Got a problem there in that it seems I don't like most kids and feel very uncomfortable around them. Have a problem handling the ones that aren't super smart and can't take and give back crap easy. One of the problems with that around here as it seems most kids stay inside playing their video games or whatever so if there are any of the ones I can get along with it seems they are always the ones busy with other activities. When it is a kid I can get along with I try to treat them the same as I would as an adult no matter their age (subject matter or topics discussed not the same as with an adult), but those kids are far and few. 

My niece and nephew are 17 and 14 and always too busy. Plus with various squabbles between my mother and sister-in-law we almost never end up with the kids unless no one else can watch them and even then it is over at my brother's.

I did help build his pinewood derby car and even bought him extra parts for it, which he ended up lending to a friend who had his wheels break. The friend actually ended up winning for their age group or cub scout troop I am told, so he was just as happy as if he won himself.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Hello, I hope no one minds resurrecting an older thread, but I thought this fit. My 12 year old son and I worked together to finish a cabinet that is going to double as my planer stand. I made sure he had ear plugs and safety glasses. He has helped me in the shop before, but today he used a couple tools for the first time. The first one was the router table! I showed him how to safely change bits, we discussed router speed, making sure there was proper clearance around the bit (not too much), and the location of the off switch and how to switch off safely. I then showed him how to use a feather board to keep the piece solid to the table, and how to use a push stick to keep the fingers away from the spinning bit. We then discussed grain patterns and which end to start with. Finally, we had the router setup, I made a couple passes to make sure it was setup right and to show him how to send a piece through. Finally I asked him if he was ready to try, which he replied he was. He ended up edge profiling all 4 drawer fronts for my cabinets and the raised panel door. (That took a lot of trust on my part since there was a lot that went in to that door!) He ran every piece through in a very safe manner, and seeing the pride of accomplishment in his face was incredibly rewarding!

The next tool I let him used (mothers look away now) was the brad nailer. He as been asking me for many years to try it out and I have always resisted. This year, while I did not come to this decision lightly, I felt he has shown the maturity and responsibility to learn how to safely use them. He has been in cub scouts and boy scouts where he has learned to safely fire both bb-guns and rifles. Before I even let him touch it, my first lesson was "This is a gun. All the rules that apply to the scout ranges apply with the brad nailer. A brad nailer can hurt and kill someone just like any other gun" After that there was considerable discussion of both safety of the nailer and the compressor. Finally, I had three drawers to assemble, I did the first one to show him proper usage. While I held the parts in place he nailed them together. Again, the look on his face was absolutely priceless!

This was truly a bonding experience with us today, and he was a big help in completing my project!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Mike sounds like a terrific day! Congrats to your son for sucessfully passing your "tests". As a step mother I think I would have feared the router more then the brad nailer. One of our sons put a 4 inch nail through his palm with a nail gun while working as a roofer. His embarrasment was much worse then his injury although it did take three surgerys to get the nail out and 6 weeks of healing (mostly from the surgerys). Bad as it sounds.. I think a router would do more damage. But kudos to you for explaining all the safety factors of both tools. Sounds like you did a great job too! Excellent bonding experience!


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## derek willis (Jan 21, 2009)

I have found through my stall at our local fete day, (see post your assistance required0, that the kids love a bit of hammering, they must hold one hand behind the back, and use a pin hammer to knock in 20mm. tacks or brads, they are all started first, much enjoyment, and they queue up for it.


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## Lakelad (Jan 19, 2011)

Some of my grandsons want to be in the shop when they are here, but none of the girls. Seems most of the young ones, male and female, are more interested in the electronics.
Gary


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

The funny thing about that is sometimes just getting them out there is enough. My son will gripe, moan, and complain when I ask him for help. This happened just last week when I got my new band saw. He helped me out for the two man parts of the job, then he went inside. 20 minutes later he was back out, on his own, watching me work on the band saw, and asking questions about that and other tools I have in the garage. What started out as a lot of teeth pulling turned into a very enjoyable evening for both of us.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

My boys all started by learning to drive nails into scraps. They each started at about 4 and progressed with driving nails, then putting scraps together with nails and sometimes glue, then learning to use a hand saw. When each was about 7 I spent a bunch of time teaching them to use my scroll safely and then watched each of them very carefully for the first several hours. Each of them got very good at this before they were allowed to move to the next tool, the drill press. I added onto the house when the oldest was 8 and he was able to drive many of the nails for me. I would put in a few to hold and then he would finish. When it cane time for the sheetrock, he put most of the nails in it for me (before screwguns), but I had a problem here. A friend (young adult) was also helping me and he asked how far apart that I wanted the nails. When I told him 4-6 inches he began trying to measure each, so I stretched my fingers out, placed my hand on the wall and said "about the distance between the end of your thumb and the end of your index finger, like this". This worked very well with him, but shortly later I discovered that my son was driving the nails about 4 inches apart. When I asked why, he said "well, you said to make them this far apart" and he held his hand with his fingers spread, up to the wall. His hand was only about 1/2 as big as my friend's. I had a good laugh and then told him, "from now on you go 2 hands between each nail". When each of my sons was about 12 and they started helping me with remodeling and other construction work I gradually added each power tool to their knowledge and capabilities with the table saw being the last to learn. They were always very good about not trying to use any tool that they were not allowed to use.

A few years ago my grand daughter (oldest son's daughter - then about 7) decided that she wanted to make things in grandpa's shop, so I started her out the same way, with a hammer and nails. She made some amazing modern art with scraps, nails, and glue on her first day. Last year (she's was 11) we made some lap desks (one for her and one for my grandson (he is 9 and lives on the West coast). I did all of the table saw cutting and planning. She did all of the sanding (power sanders), drilled the countersunk screw holes on the drill press, and then helped me do the assembly and glue-up. She drove all of the screws with a power screw drill and plugged the holes with plugs that she had cut on the drill press. Then we sanded and finished the desks together. She got to pick the desk that she wanted and I sent the other desk to my grandson. I just wish he was closer so I could give him the same experience.

Other than a few hammer hits on fingers, none of my students (kids and grand kid) have ever been injured in my shop. They have all been very good and listened to my instructions very well, but I always watched them closely for a an hour or so each time that they were doing something new, and it has all paid of in tremendous satisfaction for me, and them too. I'm very proud of them and my sons continually amaze me of what they can build without hesitation now. In fact, my middle son is now teaching me to weld. He has been a certified welder/fabricator for about 10 years now.

Charley


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