# Photo frames



## Breylek (11 mo ago)

Hi I am new to using a router. I have a table with a lift I am trying to make frames. I do not want to cut them to a 45 degrees angle. I want to but them up glue and nail them together. I have made a 1/4 wide cut for the glass but I can’t figure out how to make the grove not go all of the way to the end on 2 sides. So the frame looks correct. Can someone help. Also can I spouse the table to cut the width of the wood to make a lap joint.
thank you
Brad


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

hi Brad and welcome to the forum.
it may help if you can provide a sketch, drawing or photos of what you want to do.
also, one that you have made so far so we can see what you are doing.
how many do you have to make ? are they all the same size ?


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## Breylek (11 mo ago)

John Smith_ said:


> hi Brad and welcome to the forum.
> it may help if you can provide a sketch, drawing or photos of what you want to do.
> also, one that you have made so far so we can see what you are doing.
> how many do you have to make ? are they all the same size ?


The frames are all the same for now. I am just starting learning how to make them.



John Smith_ said:


> hi Brad and welcome to the forum.
> it may help if you can provide a sketch, drawing or photos of what you want to do.
> also, one that you have made so far so we can see what you are doing.
> how many do you have to make ? are they all the same size ?


I just posted 2 photos to the original post. I am just learning how to make them. I see ways to make lap joints. Can I get a 1” wide bit and use my table just to cut the end? 
thanks
Brad


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Brad.


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## Breylek (11 mo ago)

Thank you I have a bunch of old fence wood I want to recycle into pix frames. I am trying to figure out what is the best way to make those. The cost of pre made frames is crazy. This way I can customize the frame to meet the size of the photo I want to frame. I want a different look don’t want to go wits 45. The frame needs to stand out. I would appreciate help with this as I am new to working with wood table saws and routers. 
thanks
Brad


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Caution: Old fence boards may be toxic, take care not to breathe the dust.

You can do half laps with a router but a simple solution could be like in the drawing. Just adjust the bit height to the lower lip of part B and trim the ends of part A's faces. That would double your glue surface compared to a butt joint.


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

Breylek said:


> * I want a different look don’t want to go wits 45. *


Brad - I found this photo some years ago and have been saving it for when I could use it in something like a table, screen door frame, picture frame, etc. I just love the different design of a corner joint.
but yes, you would need a scroll saw, band saw or some kind of accurate tool to make a good fit. If a person had several to do of the same size, some jigs or templates could be made and a hand router to make the final trim fit. It is not a complicated process - it just takes the right tool in the right hands to make it. The lap-joint and wooden pegs would really set it apart from anything you've ever seen.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I make frames a lot for my artist wife. I prefer miter joints, but you could make what you want by cutting a rabbit on the underside of both the long and short pieces. Then cut the same off the top edge of the short pieces. Fit the two together with glue and short brads up through the back side to hold them in place while the glue sets. Glue will hold very well.

You can use a bit like this to cut the rabbet. They are available in many sizes. The width of the rabbet is a function of the placement of the bearing. The bearing size will determine the width of the rabbet. This shows the set and profile








If you are using a lap joint, the depth of the rabbet must be half the thickness of the material. If you are using 3/4 inch thick material, the rabbet must be no more than 3/8ths deep. If it's not exactly half, the face of the frame will not be even at the joints. In a way, you are making a face frame, but a picture frame doesn't need to be as strong.

It does need to be square, however. so cutting the ends, particularly of the short pieces, must be exactly 90 degrees. If it's not, you won't be able to make the frame square. At best, you'll have gaps at the joint lines. If you don't have a table saw and a very accurate miter gauge to make exact 90 degree cuts, then I recommend you buy a really good miter box and use a japanese "pull" saw to make the cut. There are also American made pull type saws, they cut on the back stroke so the cut is cleaner. Both have fine teeth. It's 90 or a mess. Here's one from Amazon for $23. https://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Razor...082106&sprefix=pine+litter+box,aps,242&sr=8-8








With frames, you have to make sure the opening of the rabbet is just about 1/8th inch larger than the canvas.

There is a formula for computing the size of the frame opening, but in essence it is the width of the cross pieces, plus twice the width of the stock. That more or less give you the inside dimension of the opening of the frame. You generally want to have the rabbet opening just slightly larger than the size of the canvas or the flat art, or the size of the matte board you're using. Takes a little planning.

Finally, once you get that 90, then you have to run the short pieces endwise to cut the top rabbet on the ends exactly the depth of the width of the rabbet. EXACTLY, or you get to sand and sand and sand and sand to even it up. The easiest way to do this is to use a square of MDF or plywood to back up the workpiece. This is pushed flush against the fence and you hold the piece firmly against the block.

I like to make frames from hardwood because I don't like the rustic look all that much and want frames that are suited to the painting. I buy stock from a supplier 50 miles away, and the end is nearly always unusable due to warp or splits. So I have to buy extra. Cost for milled frame stock in my favorite (cherry) cost about $40, probably more after the Biden price hike. And there is a slew of expensive, specialized equipment for making perfect frames. Pay $150 to $300 for a frame and you expect perfect. I have thought lately of buying some of the cheap, oversized frames from Asia and cutting them down to make frames to fit my wife's smaller works. But I must then deal with whatever finish they happened to use on them.

There's a great little book, called the Joint Book, available on Amazon. It covers all kinds of joinery techniques, and a little help on how to make them, on heavy, laminated card stock so you can keep and use it in your shop. I use it whenever I want to do a special project. Get the spiral bound version, it lays flat. https://www.amazon.com/Joint-Book-C...=1646084786&sprefix=The+Joint+,aps,179&sr=8-1


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Here's a video that should give you some ideas


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## Breylek (11 mo ago)

Marco said:


> Here's a video that should give you some ideas


Thanks


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## drosskennedy (Dec 7, 2009)

End lap joint


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## drosskennedy (Dec 7, 2009)

drosskennedy said:


> End lap joint
> View attachment 401119


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## Breylek (11 mo ago)

drosskennedy said:


> End lap joint
> View attachment 401119


Yes that is what I am going to try and figure out how to make them. I have a lift on my table so that should help. 
thanks
Brad


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## drosskennedy (Dec 7, 2009)

Check you tube.


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## srjaynes49 (Feb 9, 2010)

John Smith_ said:


> hi Brad and welcome to the forum.
> it may help if you can provide a sketch, drawing or photos of what you want to do.
> also, one that you have made so far so we can see what you are doing.
> how many do you have to make ? are they all the same size ?


Brad: Using a well matched and adjusted Stile and Rail router bit combo and good quality wood glue will eliminate the need for nails entirely. Some of us still use brads rather than clamps, especially if the frames will be painted. The GLUE is where the strength is, not the nails. There's a plethora of Stile and Rail sets out there, and many YouTube demos on their use. I favor Freud and Sommerfeld sets, but your milage will certainly vary... Keep your soft parts away from the sharp pointy edges... ;-)


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Now I have a better idea of what you're trying to do. A lap joint on the end pieces. I'm assuming you're using 3/4 stock. That makes for a 3/8ths rabbet. If you need a deeper rabbet, say for an oil in a stretcher, you will have to alter the. If you need half an inch rabbet, that will leave you a quarter inch for the face of the fame, and the other half of the lap joint will be 1/2 inch. Keep that in mind.

If you have a table saw, I suggest you make a cross cut the depth you want, as close to exactly where you want the lap cut to begin as possible. You can make a few other saw cuts across that same end so your router doesn't have to hog out so much. Use a blade that leaves a flat bottom. (Full kerf Freud Glue Line is my favorite) By doing that, when you use your router table to remove the rest of the cut, you have a little wiggle room It will also prevent tear out at the router

As to the rabbet, you can pre cut the rabbet, but STOP it so it doesn't go all the way across the length of the piece. You clamp stop blocks to the fence so that your bit stops cutting before it breaks through the end. When you overlap the two pieces, you won't have the rabbet showing as a gap at the top edge of the frame.

This should speed up production for you. If you don't precut the joint edge, you'll have to be extremely precise in setting the fence and managing your bit's placement relative to a fence.

A lap joint must be as close to exactly half the thickness of the piece, or you get to do a LOT of sanding. Placing glass or a mount board determines the size of the rabbet. Measure carefully.

If you get a little gap, you may be able to fill it in. My favorite filler is Aussie, Timber Mate, available in a lot of different colors. Sands and finishes well.








Be sure to show us the finished result. I'm curious.


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