# Plunge Router Suggestions



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm looking for a good plunge router - something in the 3-1/4 to 3-1/2 HP category. Any suggestions on models? I was looking at the Hitachi M12VE - does anyone have any feedback on that?


----------



## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

I have a Hitachi M12VE -it a real workhorse but it is heavy i use mine in my router table 
i am real happy with it never had a problem, i installed a muscle chuck on it love that to


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

Semipro said:


> I have a Hitachi M12VE -it a real workhorse but it is heavy i use mine in my router table
> i am real happy with it never had a problem, i installed a muscle chuck on it love that to


Thanks for the feedback. Does it have a smooth plunge mechanism with no side to side play? Since you are using it in a router table I'm guess that is not much of an issue for you. 

Also do you know what the difference between the M12VE and M12V2 is - is the M12VE just a newer version of the M12V2.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

blue_can said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Does it have a smooth plunge mechanism with no side to side play? .


in that case you want a Bosch 1619..


----------



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Ravin, here is a good place to look and buy routers and other woodworking tools. I and others here on this forum have bought from them. They have very good customer service. 

https://www.cpooutlets.com/routers-and-trimmers/routers-and-trimmers,default,sc.html


----------



## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Please consider a smaller router for hand-held plunge use. About the only thing a smaller router won't do is spin panel-raising bits. A 3 HP router is just so large and cumbersome and heavy. It's fine to install in a table, but like trying to drive a tack with a sledgehammer to use handheld.


----------



## curly1 (May 7, 2010)

You can't get parts for m12 any more, couldn't get a new starter switch for mine.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

You are spot on as regards horse power. The Hitachi is a fine router but I prefer the Makita 
RP2301FC, compare the two by plunging with only one finger. In fact, try this test on all the routers that you can find in the shops.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I agree absolutely on the weight part, Ravin. I have both a Bosch 1619EVS and a 1617EVSPK (finally!), and the size and weight difference is remarkable. I much prefer the lighter 1617.
You're right though; if you're plunging and dadoing with a 3/4" mortising or straight bit in tough wood, you'd certainly notice the difference in power.

Re what you and Stick were talking about re the precise plunge action with the Bosch 1619EVS...mine's been trouble free. Also, if you want to use it in a table you can lock the plunge springs out without having to disassemble anything, not so for other brands.


----------



## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I used a 3 1/2 hp router hand held ONCE!!! Since then I use 2 1/4 hp and smaller routers hand held. 3 hp and larger routers are too heavy and to large to be using hand held. In a router table yes, but a fixed base router is easier to adjust in a router table. 

Charley


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have a Triton 3 1/4hp router. It is heavy. The shipping weight of the carton is 16 pounds. Subtract a couple of pounds for packaging, rail guide, and wrench, and it is still heavy. Just sayin'

Mounted in the router table, it works great.

I have used it for surfacing a board larger than my planer and it worked just fine. Still heavy, though.


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. I have not really been doing much woodworking until recently and most of my needs to date have been met by the Harborfreight 2-1/2 HP router. It also weighs around 16lbs and I've done a fair bit of portable routing with it so I'm familiar with how it feels to handle a router that kind of weight. However for plunging the mechanism is really horrible and really won't do for any kind of precision work. To be fair I originally bought it to make some profiles for molds for forming decorative concrete blocks which did not require much precision. But it's time to move to a decent tool.

My reasoning for getting something in the 3+HP range was to have something powerful enough to do things like cutting mortises and through mortises and to have the extra power as needed. I do understand the downsides about weight. 

I will take a look at all of the suggested models. Yes it would be nice to walk in somewhere and actually get to hold and play around with the plunge mechanism to see what feels good. Not sure there is such a place around here but I will investigate.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ravin; where's "here"? There maybe other members with a recommendation as to where you can get your hands on one. A lot of lumberyards will host a specific Manufacturers' Open House, where you can actually try stuff out.
Check out the Manufacturers you might be interested in to see if they show a date on their website.

(I just checked and couldn't find a calendar at Bosch; I e-mailed for more info.)


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan - I'm in San Diego, California. There is a Rockler not too far from me - I do go in from time to time to buy stuff - they may have something for me to look at but I think I only see larger tools on display. Also I can check with the two lumber yards I go to go get lumber if they have any open days coming up. I will also check with the manufacturer websites - thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

blue_can said:


> Dan - I'm in San Diego, California. There is a Rockler not too far from me - I do go in from time to time to buy stuff - they may have something for me to look at but I think I only see larger tools on display. Also I can check with the two lumber yards I go to go get lumber if they have any open days coming up. I will also check with the manufacturer websites - thanks for the suggestion.


My local Rockler carries the Bosch line of routers.


----------



## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

CharleyL said:


> I used a 3 1/2 hp router hand held ONCE!!! Since then I use 2 1/4 hp and smaller routers hand held. 3 hp and larger routers are too heavy and to large to be using hand held.


I think maybe you should get the Bullworker out, Charley. :wink: A lot of carpenters use large "3-1/2HP" (in my terms 1800 to 2300 watt) plunge routers precisely because they have enough depth of plunge and the power to back it up on jobs like mortising, cutting post-formed worktop (counter top) mason's mitre joints, cutting housings (dados), etc - all tasks for which a fixed base router is either inconvenient or just plain dangerous. If you use them because you need them then you learn to live with them, although the medium sized (1200 to 1600 watt) plungers are admittedly a lot lighter on my old arms (and therefore more pleasant to use), especially when doing one of those "catch-up" jobs where someone needs to spend 4 or 5 hours routing stuff, The downside is that have a lot less grunt and they lack the depth of cut (often 50 to 55mm as opposed to 70 to 80mm of the heavyweights), As with everything there are compromises. 

Overall these days I tend to be doing less heavy carpentry so the medium-sized router works better for me as a main router although I am lucky enough to have retained my "big hitter" as well for the onegtime in 20 that I need loads of power. At the risk of almost blaspheming, I've tried the American-style separate motor and base routers (for example I have a Bosch 1618evs with a plunge base) and in plunge form that router is just big, heavy and bulky in comparison to a purpose-made plunger of similar performance. The table option has far less influence on me because of the sort of work I do, and I'm less than convinced by the low centre of gravity argument some folk use when defending their choice of a fixed base router


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have both a M12V and the V2 as well as a VC. I've looked at the VE and I think they went back towards the V model with that design. I don't know everything it's capable of but the throat opening on the V is smaller than the V2 and it looks like the VE is the same as the V. The V2 came with unscrewable plugs in the plunge columns to make it easy to remove the springs for table use. The V2 also has above the table adjustment capability. You take the phenolic base plate off and there is a 14mm nut that you can put a socket on and turn the adjusting screw with. The V didn't have that option. The V2 was really designed as a table router but wasn't advertised as one.


----------



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> in that case you want a Bosch 1619..


From everything I can find, the Bosch 1619 has been discontinued and there is no new model to replace it.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TWheels said:


> From everything I can find, the Bosch 1619 has been discontinued and there is no new model to replace it.


it's fact..
this grieves me... 
per Bosch CS...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Maybe some really good deals out there on remaining stock? Bosch Customer Service will still support it.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bosch CS said there is a new router on the way...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Maybe it'll be WiFi?! ...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bosch doesn't seem to do gimmicks..


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*groan*...Man, tough crowd.


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Maybe it'll be WiFi?! ...


...so as to operate it from the living room...? ? ? 👊


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

blue_can said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. I have not really been doing much woodworking until recently and most of my needs to date have been met by the Harborfreight 2-1/2 HP router. It also weighs around 16lbs and I've done a fair bit of portable routing with it so I'm familiar with how it feels to handle a router that kind of weight. However for plunging the mechanism is really horrible and really won't do for any kind of precision work. To be fair I originally bought it to make some profiles for molds for forming decorative concrete blocks which did not require much precision. But it's time to move to a decent tool.
> 
> My reasoning for getting something in the 3+HP range was to have something powerful enough to do things like cutting mortises and through mortises and to have the extra power as needed. I do understand the downsides about weight.
> 
> I will take a look at all of the suggested models. Yes it would be nice to walk in somewhere and actually get to hold and play around with the plunge mechanism to see what feels good. Not sure there is such a place around here but I will investigate.


I'm surprised Ravin that weight appears to be thought of as a negative, in fact I consider the opposite to be the case, a light weight router can tend to move too easily and drift it's own way. A heavy router is always under the control of the operator. In any case, during use the router isn't being held in free air, it's sitting on the work piece or template. Finally it's obvious that a powerful router will do everything that a low power one will plus MUCH more.
A low power router would have difficulty routing something like this deep routed box. There is so much that can be done with a plunge router, very little of it shown in the books and magazines that I've read.


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> You are spot on as regards horse power. The Hitachi is a fine router but I prefer the Makita
> RP2301FC, compare the two by plunging with only one finger. In fact, try this test on all the routers that you can find in the shops.


The makita is one of the worst routers I've used...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> The makita is one of the worst routers I've used...


agreed...


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Did half laps with the Makita for a IPE table base exterior tables yesterday. Kept thinking if it fell off the table it would ease my pain...


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ouch!


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Just did a quick search for a 1619 and the only place that didn't say it was unavailable was at Fastenal but they list it for $376. I also found a Hitachi M12V2 for $210 on ebay being sold by CPO. https://www.ebay.com/p/Hitachi-M12V2-3-1-4-HP-Variable-Speed-Plunge-Base-Router/2256547127


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

What happened to dewalt 625 routers? I must be the only one that still uses them...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DW CS/TS and parts availability has fallen way off...

is that a picture of your hero??? (your icon)...


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Stick486 said:


> DW CS/TS and parts availability has fallen way off...
> 
> is that a picture of your hero??? (your icon)...


Could be....:wink:


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Only trouble I ever had with DW 625 was the variable speed controller. . Over worked they would fail. Only $30...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bosch speed control...
never had one fail...
zero dollars...
zero down time..


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> The makita is one of the worst routers I've used...


Could you expand on that Jack.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Stick486 said:


> agreed...


Could you also expand on that stick.


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Could you expand on that Jack.


Lock down hard to reach. When I could reach it I had to keep checking it. The springs are too soft for me. Most everything I plunge is 8/4. From IPE to Ash....

I have trouble with Festool Domino joiner as well. It ain't perfect either...


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Darn it I forgot my V8....


----------



## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> What happened to dewalt 625 routers? I must be the only one that still uses them...


No, you're not alone. I have a couple of Elu MOF177e routers (a DW625 in grey, basically), plus a DW625. Happy enough with them. In Europe parts are readily available which my be why they are still fairly popular over here. My original MOF177e (a 30 year old type 2) is still going strong. I've gone through 3 or 4 sets of bearings over the years s well as several sets of brushes and a few fence bodies where the tool has been dropped (the lads aren't always careful enough....). To date only one speed controller, though. 

A modified version, the Trend T11 gives the DW625 what it needs in terms of table usage and the upgrading of the motor to 2000 watts when the typ 6 came out was worthwhile (and gives just enough power to handle Corian) but it's a pity that DW have never revised the design - it really does need better dust extraction and to be a bit quieter. A serious point about the fixed base motor in a plunge base that various firms make is that they are both deficient in power and depth of plunge for heavy/production joinery work. The DW625 has a plunge depth of 75mm and 2000 watts on tap - a GOF1600 (MR23) is about 60mm DoC and 1600 watts whilst seemingly being more bulky.

I also have a Festool OF2200e which adds a bit to the functionality and is a superb router to use (probably the best I've ever used ergonomically) - but at one heck of a price. Interestingly that router uses the same engineering-derived collet that the DW625 has - it took Bosch at least a couple of stabs (from taking over from Stanley) to come up with a near-identical design


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I used them in the table but I think heat kills the variable speed. I ended up switching the DW for older PC....

There repaired but sitting drawing dust rather than making it. A few are on Craigslist. Have too many..


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

harrysin said:


> I'm surprised Ravin that weight appears to be thought of as a negative, in fact I consider the opposite to be the case, a light weight router can tend to move too easily and drift it's own way. A heavy router is always under the control of the operator. In any case, during use the router isn't being held in free air, it's sitting on the work piece or template. Finally it's obvious that a powerful router will do everything that a low power one will plus MUCH more.
> A low power router would have difficulty routing something like this deep routed box. There is so much that can be done with a plunge router, very little of it shown in the books and magazines that I've read.


Harry - only as far as some find it heavy- personally I've never found it an issue to work with a router that weight what the 3+hp routers do but it seems like some do. Other than that there are positives to the weight as as well as having the extra power as you've pointed out. 

That's why I'm planning on getting a router in this class.


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

Job and Knock said:


> I also have a Festool OF2200e which adds a bit to the functionality and is a superb router to use (probably the best I've ever used ergonomically) - but at one heck of a price. Interestingly that router uses the same engineering-derived collet that the DW625 has - it took Bosch at least a couple of stabs (from taking over from Stanley) to come up with a near-identical design


Yes I was looking at the OF2200 as well but was put off by the price.

There was a review of high power routers in Fine Woodworking Magazine (cannot recall the date of the article) but the OF2200 got the top spot for a number of reasons including the dust collection.

The Hitachi also got a good review which is why I was looking at that.

That bring me to another point. How does dust collection fare on the models listed so far. Does anyone use one of the aftermarket dust collection attachment for routers?

I currently do all portable routing work outside as I don't have any sort of dust collection port for the router.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I would tell anyone who wants a router but isn't sure what all they will be doing with it that they should probably be looking for the biggest plunge that suits them. You can get by with 2+ hp routers spinning 3- 3.5" bits but they work doing it and the 3+ hp routers spin them without working too hard. Having the largest router won't limit what you want to do with it. Then later, if you stick with it, you'll want a second router that is much smaller. Many of us have either a Bosch Colt or DW611 for trim work and they are great for small jobs.

I see you mentioned Hitachis being well rated. I have 3 and I like them. If you want a table router I recommend the V2 for that. It's what it was designed for. Someone who is a Bosch fan said once "but how is their customer service, Bosch's is the very best". My reply was that I have no idea, despite the fact that I have 3 and the oldest is about 15 years old I've never once needed to contact Hitachi's CS dept. If that ever happens I'll let everyone know how that turned out. Hitachi also comes with a 5 yr warranty as opposed to everyone else's 1 or 2 year warranty. And they are one of the cheapest. As I ointed out earlier, you can get a V2 from CPO outlets for $210.


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

If your going to put a router in a table you may as well have all bases covered... Why chance going backwards when you can go forward once...:wink:


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> Lock down hard to reach. When I could reach it I had to keep checking it. The springs are too soft for me. Most everything I plunge is 8/4. From IPE to Ash....
> 
> I have trouble with Festool Domino joiner as well. It ain't perfect either...


This sounds like a case of buying a router that one is comfortable with rather than claiming that Makita is crap.


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> This sounds like a case of buying a router that one is comfortable with rather than claiming that Makita is crap.


Actually not..It's being lucky enough to work with most routers starting with Craftsman and Stanley routers back in the early 80's and evolving with the newer ones. personally I have around 20 routers at home and I think eight are plunge. I don't dislike Makita as a company,but I do have to deal with that makita at work..As long as their paying for it, I'll deal with it...

So compared to the other routers I have used.. Yea it's crap...

Remember I'm payed to do plunge work 8 hrs a day. The rest of the time I do it for free. The Makita plunge isn't my choice of router for either...

This one I have not used. So I cannot say...


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I assumed Jack that we were discussing plunge routers rather than a trim router in a plunge base. I too wouldn't use my RTO700 in it's plunge base for serious routing, I would use the Makita 3612C on skis or the RP2301FC for serious work and the Triton TR001 in the table, where I reckon it was designed for.


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Just stating the Makita you showed early in the post wasn't a quality router. Would not recommend it. We can discuss the last 30+ of routing if you like. Does the morbidelli count?

Heck I'm selling routers https://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/d/jorgensen-gear-clamps-and/6499786862.html


----------



## Job and Knock (Dec 18, 2016)

Oh no! Not another Morbidelli vs. SCM vs. Biesse argument. (BTW, I favour Biesse - only because I can program several of them, so I guess I'm biased)

Harry, is that a 3601 in the background? I haven't seen one of them in a while - had the original square base 3600 (?) in about 1981, as well as a Ryobi R-150. The Makita was better, but the Elu MOF98 that replaced it was even better. Still got a MOF98


----------



## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

It's SCM..:grin::grin:


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The three routers on the table were 3600BR, 3612C and RP2301FC. I had just purchased the latter one and was making a multi-step anvil to replace the last century designed three screw useless type.


----------



## P.W.H. (Feb 16, 2018)

blue_can said:


> Thanks for the feedback. Does it have a smooth plunge mechanism with no side to side play? Since you are using it in a router table I'm guess that is not much of an issue for you.
> 
> Also do you know what the difference between the M12VE and M12V2 is - is the M12VE just a newer version of the M12V2.


I have the predecessor to the M12 - the TR 12. There is absolutely no play in the plunge mechanism, but it can be hard to depress! Those springs are very strong. The TR12 did not have a speed control, did not have 'soft start', and the on-off switch was ergonomically not in the best possible place - but: workhorse! It gave you the feeling that you could drive a truck over it and it would go right back to work. If I had to take a router on a building site, that's the one I'd use. The M12 is much improved over it, I understand, but not sure if it's as robust. 
For use in a router table it worked much better once I got an 'extreme extender'. 

In the workshop I prefer my new Bosch GOF 1600 (known as the MR23 in the US I believe?). Technologically speaking it's streets ahead. Plunges easily in the plunge base and I can just pull the motor out and plug it into the fixed base that's mounted in the router table permanently now.


----------



## blue_can (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions and input. After much consideration I decided to go with the Hitachi M12VE. I used it yesterday to route some through mortises in 1-1/2" cherry 1/2" wide and generally happy with the performance. It feels quite light and easy to handle and the plunge lock mechanism is easy to activate. Plenty of power and had no problem routing the mortise in 3 passes - in fact there was no sensation of it being under load at any time. Plunging is smooth and no side to side play. 

Still trying to figure out the dust collection - until then I'm using it outdoors. Hitachi seems to sell an attachment but it does not seem easy to find. I tried the universal dust collector attachment from Oneida but that does not seem to fit. Waiting to hear back from their tech support.


----------



## OBG65 (May 5, 2018)

I know this is a month old, but I just became a member. My go to plungers are the DW 6182 (618 w/ plunge base), DW 621, and DW 625. I also have the PC 892 with the plunge base but prefer it and the 690 as fixed base routers.


----------

