# miter saw vs table saw w/ miter gauge



## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

I've been trying to figure out why you would use a table saw to make a miter cut instead of the miter saw? I've seen many threads for building miter sleds and improvements to their miter gauge. I've also seen a couple of threads where the woodworker used a table saw to make a cut when there was a miter saw in the background.

thanks
Everend


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## cagenuts (May 8, 2010)

Well for starters you can get/build table saw sleds that accommodate 24" wide panels which will be impossible on a compound miter saw.

The sled can be used to accomplish much more of course, cut tenons, dados etc.

Some even build a double miter sled where the adjoining fences are exactly perpendicular to each other but perhaps not exactly 90 degrees to the blade. The resulting miter joint will still be a perfect right angle.

Maybe some just prefer to buy a good blade for the table saw and then use the miter saw as a rough cutting device.

Admittedly if I had that fancy new 12" Bosch that doesn't slide but pivots instead I may be using that very often instead of the table saw. At three times the price of my contractor saw, I doubt it will in the shop any time soon.

I'm keen to see other replies though.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Everend

I, too, am puzzled by this. I can understand people wanting to use a sled to cut housings (dado grooves) and rebates with a stacked dado head, even though that job is more safely done on a radial arm saw, but the use of a table saw to make mitre cuts is a bit of a mystery to me when even a low cost simple mitre saw will handle timbers of any length (try cross-cutting a 16ft long piece of 4 x 2 softwood on a table saw). If it helps almost every joinery shop I've had dealings with crosscut solid timbers on crosscut saws whilst sheet materials are often crosscut on panel saws with large sliding tables (such as Altendorfs and Martins, but not Unisaws or anything that small)

Hi Hilton



cagenuts said:


> Well for starters you can get/build table saw sleds that accommodate 24" wide panels which will be impossible on a compound miter saw.


Perhaps the difference is in to quality of the saws we use and the fact that a lot of industrial RASs can do a 24in cut. Housings (dados) aren't used that often in commercial work in Europe these days (biscuits or Dominos are much faster, as are carcass screws). Tenons are faster, safer and more accuratly cut on a tenoner or spindle moulder (shaper) with appropriate carraige, especially as _you can work the scribe profile at the same time as cutting the tenon_



cagenuts said:


> Maybe some just prefer to buy a good blade for the table saw and then use the miter saw as a rough cutting device.


Seems like that is missing a trick. A mitre saw is easier to tune than a table saw IMHO. 

That's the sort of EU trade response from a joinery perspective where we often deal with biggish bits of timber

Regards

Phil


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

At first blush my thought is that miter saw costs a lot more than a Incra miter gauge and and Incra's Express Sled. The cuts made with these relative inexpensive are perfect when the gauge is properly calibrated. Now, if you have followed my thread s and posts on this forum you know that I am a green pea in regard to such matters so my opinion is worth about what you pay for it. I wonder if the issue is a little bit like what you like to drive, a Chevy or a Ford, either one wlll work, maybe it's just a matter of personal choice. I know two woodworkers that have high end miter saws and swear by them, but I believe that I can cut just as accurately with my TS set up and so, that's my story and I'm stickin to it.

Jerry Bowen


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## bnaboatbuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

Tools can do more than what they're pigeon holed to do.

I have a good Makita miter saw, but I use it for framing my sheds, cutting long pieces. It makes a mess though using in the workshop.

Otherwise I use my table saw sled for reasons said, cutting panels, cutting very small pieces, safety is quite good with a sled. Accuracy can be insanely better on a sled.

I used the youtube video "5 cuts to a perfect table saw sled" to fine tune my sled. The accuracy of a cut is 0.0005" over every 12" crosscut (5/10,000") for my sled. I doubt you'll get that on a miter saw or RAS.

The dust collection on my table saw (Bosch 4100) is quite good, I sealed off the base and beveling holes and connect to a 4" system.

I don't bother using the miter gauge anymore for the table saw.

I can't crosscut 24" panels but 15" for sure. My Makita miter saw is fixed and not sliding, so it's limited there.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bnaboatbuilder said:


> I used the youtube video "5 cuts to a perfect table saw sled" to fine tune my sled. The accuracy of a cut is 0.0005" over every 12" crosscut (5/10,000") for my sled. I doubt you'll get that on a miter saw or RAS.


I doubt whether you actually need it, though, John. Industrial panel saws are rarely set to that accuracy, nor can they hold it. Wood being wood it does tend to move with the weather and tradtionally mitre joints were/are adjusted with a block or mitre plane to take into account any discrepancies. Rarely need to do that, though, because my mitre saws are normally set-up to be good enough. BTW how would you get on trying to use a sled to trim a 7ft door casing leg with your set-up?

Regards

Phil


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## bnaboatbuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

Phil,

There will always be people who say it's wood, you don't need to be so accurate. I don't need to be that accurate, but in the first try setting the sled, that's what I got. I can't complain.

I can't tell you how many picture frames I've seen which weren't cheap with pretty poor miters. A crosscut sled can do just about as perfect miters as possible. Nothing wrong with achieving the best results. All too often in business, it's just "good enough" mentality.

I don't do production, I am a photographer by trade, I build things with wood almost daily for fun.

I have a Festool track saw I use to break down sheet goods. I think it would be more than sufficient on a 7 ft door, which in and of itself wouldn't require even the accuracy of the Festool.

Everyone has different levels of expectations, mine happen to be high. I have to deliver photos of excellent quality to clients, do the best photoshop work, etc. I just take that to my own hobby work. No harm in that.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Using a sled to cut miters does make sense to me. I did build a crosscut sled for my table saw that gets used often and I can see how adding a miter stop to the sled would be helpful in producing multiple exact cuts.
I'm still don't understand the use of a miter gauge on a table saw. The miter bar is only about 12" long, so unless you have a really large table with a long miter track, that limits the width of your cross cut to effectively 8"-10" max since you'll need to seat the miter bar in the track and still have room for the piece between the face of the gauge and the saw blade.
This question is coming from my recent visit to the Woodcraft store where the salesman convinced me I needed the INCRA v120 for my soon-to-be built router table (and existing table saw). He (and my wife rushing me out the door) also convinced me to buy the Kreg router table fence. I'm taking the fence back (unopened) on Saturday since I really wanted to build my own fence. But I'm just not sure if the miter gauge is really something I need.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Everend; Phil summed it up pretty thoroughly, but I'll add my two cents worth anyway.
From my perspective, I use both machines concurrently (just not at the same moment in time). If I'm building a cabinet for example, I'm using the TS for all my rips, and most of my panel cuts. I'm using the SCMS for crosscutting all my material that's _less_ than 12"across, especially the hardwood. I can leave the TS fence set at a specific size while I chop other material. It's just really convenient. The subject of mitres didn't even arise in that case.
Another issue is My workshop size...12' wide with the TS in the ctr of the 12'. 6' is the max. I can have hanging out either side. The SCMS (or my chop saw)? I take it outside and I can crosscut to _any_ length, or any angle up to 55deg. I also don't have to fight against the weight of a honkin' big chunk of lumber!


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bnaboatbuilder said:


> I have a Festool track saw I use to break down sheet goods. I think it would be more than sufficient on a 7 ft door, which in and of itself wouldn't require even the accuracy of the Festool.


Actually, John, a door casing _isn't_ a door. It is the "framework" if you like which goes around a door, although if you think in terms of the stile of a conventional frame and panel door it's the same sort of size. In accuracy terms fitting a door into an existing door in an old building is much more down to judgement (and judicious use of hand planes, etc) because it doesn't need to _be_ right, but it has to _look_ right..... 

The point I was trying to make is that for anyone in a shop of limited size hanging a 7ft (or longer) piece of timber off the side of a small table saw introduces potentially considerable inaccuracies due to flexing of the timber, lack of support, etc. not to mention space issues. To me that limits the usefulness of a sled on a saw to smaller pieces. But then that sort of echos what Dan said on the subject

As far as poor quality frames go, don't picture framers in the USA use mitre guillotines, such as the Morsø? They are pretty much universal over here and are extremely accurate, but in that case it's the use of a guillotine blade rather than a saw blade which improves the visual quality. If an idiot is using it, it can still end up a botch job

Regards

Phil


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## bnaboatbuilder (Jan 10, 2013)

I call those door frames. No harm no foul.

One thing I've learned through work and life, there is no such as "universal" when it comes to business. Mostly what gets the job done, out the door to the customer is the priority. The small percentage of any business type makes the increased effort at using higher quality tools for better results. The average consumer in the U.S. is somewhat questionable at their understanding of quality. I see that everyday in photography and many other businesses.


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## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I have spent a lot of time on a miter/compound miter saw doing production trim work and for that kind of blow and go work it is wonderful. Two man crews yelling lengths out the doors to the saw man and him cutting them close enough or one man running through and writing the lengths of baseboards, crown, counter top, closet shelves on the wall and then running outside to crank out his "close enough" cuts. Great Tool! But when I want to get it dead on perfect and I have the time and I am in my shop it's to the TS I go.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Shortslvs said:


> I have spent a lot of time on a miter/compound miter saw doing production trim work and for that kind of blow and go work it is wonderful. Two man crews yelling lengths out the doors to the saw man and him cutting them close enough or one man running through and writing the lengths of baseboards, crown, counter top, closet shelves on the wall and then running outside to crank out his "close enough" cuts. Great Tool! But when I want to get it dead on perfect and I have the time and I am in my shop it's to the TS I go.


 i

That makes real sense to me, my nephew is a finish carpenter and of course he uses his miter saw for cutting molding for the reason implied to in this post. 

Jerry


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Hmm, probably for about the same reason some of us like dado blades on the table saw, and some prefer routers for making dados. Personal preference!:laugh:


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have seen this debate on a couple of forums, and a lot of it truly does come down to preference. My thoughts on my tool choice comes with what I have currently in my shop. My miter saw is a simple 10" miter saw, that I paid $150 for. Its not a bad saw, and is great for working with long stock. However it is no where near the quality of a high-end $600+ slider. For trim work around the house, its fine. But, with the slop in the adjustments, I just don't trust it enough for fine work. I have a TS that I bought a few years ago from craigslist, and have modernized it. The saw itself is a far better made machine then the miter saw. Combine that with a sled for doing wide crosscuts, and an incra miter gauge for everything else, I have found this setup to be far more accurate and precise, as well as far greater repeatability in cuts.

As for the comment about radial arm saws. If you are going to go that route, get a good used Dewalt or Delta. They are frequently on Craigslist for not a whole lot of cash. While I am sure many have gotten a craftsman RAS well tuned for themselves, I have just simply read too much bad press on them to consider recommending one, or even buying one for myself. I have actually passed up a couple RASes as I simply do not have the room. 

So, for my purposes, for a woodworking project nearly all my crosscuts are done on the table saw.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

bnaboatbuilder said:


> I used the youtube video "5 cuts to a perfect table saw sled" to fine tune my sled.


Thanks John for saying something about the YouTube video, here is the link if anyone is interested in building their own sled I highly recommend watching it.

5 Cuts to a "Perfect" Cross-Cut Sled - YouTube

I do have a table saw, miter saw, radial arm saw, band saw, jig saw, and handheld saws both powered and old school hand saws and I prefer to use the saw I am most comfortable with for the cut being made.

I built high end aerospace cabinetry for several years and we never used a miter saw for anything except rough cuts, this is not to say they are not accurate or they are are not capable of making a clean cut. If properly aligned and fitted with zero clearance inserts and the proper blade most of them will give you a perfect cut every time.

Some people can only afford one saw and I sure would not recommend buying a miter saw before buying a table saw.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bnaboatbuilder said:


> I call those door frames. No harm no foul


A door frame is rebated and used in external and/or internal door openings, a door casing is flat and has architraves attached and is only used for interior work. may have rebayed or planted-in stop. Ordering stuff on a phone means I have to be pedantic - ooterwise I;ll end up with the wrong thing, sure as eggs are eggs.

I'm surprised you don't use your Festool for cross cutting sheet stock. I certainly use mine on site - makes for an easier life not having to manhandle sheet stock so much



MEBCWD said:


> I built high end aerospace cabinetry for several years and we never used a miter saw for anything except rough cuts, this is not to say they are not accurate or they are are not capable of making a clean cut. If properly aligned and fitted with zero clearance inserts and the proper blade most of them will give you a perfect cut every time.


When I had my own shop I had a 3.2 metre (10 foot) Altendorf sliding panel saw, and that was obviously the tool of choice for large sheet materials of the type you use in aerospace or where I work in shop/bar/hotel fitting. In terms of accuracy and repeatability it was brilliant, but for narrow stuff like door frames or door casings it was just a waste of time and energy. Overkill. For thin, long stuff like that and for cutting mouldings, etc a good mitre saw is probably the best tool available. Horses for courses

Regards

Phil


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

While trying to set up this shop at my sons place we were trying to figure out how we are going to use 2 Dewalt 705 12in. miter saws. Mine is almost 20 years old, his is only 3 or 4. They have both been 'trued' and are dead accurate. His stays on an older Ryobi stand that is real nice and extends out to 8 foot, but they discontinued making that model. It will be used for longer work, and mine will go on a bench for short. We have built 2 sleds, panel and crosscut with stop blocks on each. They all have their purpose, the trick is knowing when to use what, and the quality of work you expect from each one. I still trust the table saw more for high quality work, and have been thinking of buying an Incra miter gauge, but for cabinet work I just can't justify unless someone can point out something I'm missing. For sheet stock breakdown we use 'All In One' contractors straight edge clamps with a Rockler guide plate setup on a 18v Milwaukee saw (great little saw) no cords to mess with when going from the truck to the sawhorses or bench. We never break down sheet goods on the table saw even if 2 men are available. To me this is the best and safest way for one man to break down sheet stock. And be sure to do do it the same way every time with no exceptions.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Phil; not to start (continue)any argument, but you can see where the confusion comes in, when you look at this glossary prepared by one of N. America's largest door mfg. companies...
Door Glossary|A Reference Guide to Door Related Definitions
Compare, 'casing' 'jamb' and 'frame'
Personally, I've always called the frame _jamb, header, and sill. _
The trim, int. and ext., either _casing or just trim. _
If I'm ordering a door, I order it as _"prehung" or "door only"_...the counter guys then confirm the specific details as required on their work order.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oops, I should have mentioned; if you _don't specify otherwise_ on exterior prehung doors, they automatically make them with BRICKMOULD on the exterior...
It's a really bad choice with any kind of siding that butts up to it...might as well just stick your garden hose into the joint. Virtually impossible to make it watertight.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

I have a decent and upgraded old JET contractor table saw, a Craftsman contractor size radial arm saw and 'budget' miter saw. All have been tuned to the best of my tools(dial indicators, squares, etc) and personal ability. All are tight and all have fairly good blades and all leave a very smooth cut and at what ever angle I choose. For just a single angle, RAS does a great job. For a compound angle - only that miter saw will work. And the table saw - it will do a great job ripping or cutting a piece of wood to length or even an angle but that RAS on smaller pieces sure does a great job. When it's all said and done, we can argue until the cows come home, but it ends up with what you are comfortable using to cut those angles.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

While trying to set up this shop at my sons place we were trying to figure out how we are going to use 2 Dewalt 705 12in. miter saws. Mine is almost 20 years old, his is only 3 or 4. They have both been 'trued' and are dead accurate. His stays on an older Ryobi stand that is real nice and extends out to 8 foot, but they discontinued making that model. It will be used for longer work, and mine will go on a bench for short. We have built 2 sleds, panel and crosscut with stop blocks on each. They all have their purpose, the trick is knowing when to use what, and the quality of work you expect from each one. I still trust the table saw more for high quality work, and have been thinking of buying an Incra miter gauge, but for cabinet work I just can't justify unless someone can point out something I'm missing. For sheet stock breakdown we use 'All In One' contractors straight edge clamps with a Rockler guide plate setup on a 18v Milwaukee saw (great little saw) no cords to mess with when going from the truck to the sawhorses or bench. We never break down sheet goods on the table saw even if 2 men are available. To me this is the best and safest way for one man to break down sheet stock. And be sure to do do it the same way every time with no exceptions.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

In my small shop, cutting on the table saw is limited to fairly short pieces. I recently bought a Bosch sliding miter and made certain it was dead on accurate. It is great for long pieces, but I often cut a little oversized and use the table saw and sled to fit to exact size. Both saws cut accurate and square, but it is easier to shave off a 64th for an exact fit on the sled. I purchased a Rockler sled that has the ability to cut any angle from zero to 50 degrees. It has a stop bolt that lets you set the 90 D precisely, then moving the fence to any angle gives you extremely accurate cuts. The sliding miter is really terrific, but then, its a Bosch. It came out of the box dead on, so I like using it, but for fine work, its back to my well tuned table saw.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. Here is what I'm coming to understand, there are specific instances where each tool is the better choice.

My experience has been limited to cutting miters for trim in houses, baseboards, crown, door casing, etc. No house/wall is ever square, so close cuts are close enough. Especially since I'll be caulking or puttying the gap where the pieces come together. For this the miter saw is the way to go since I'm working with long, cumbersome pieces, it's much easier to move the saw blade against a stationary piece than moving the piece against a stationary blade. 

Another factor is that nearly all my work is mobile, the tool gets loaded in/out of the van - garage - jobsite. I doubt there is even one of my tools that has the accuracy y'all are talking about. Well that's not entirely true anymore...

I went back to the Woodcraft store in town and had a much better experience, talking with the owner this time. He gladly took back the unopened Kreg fence and spent at least 30 minutes talking with me about my table/fence design and what hardware would help me get there. He also let me exchange the Incra v120 miter gauge I bought last week for the Incra 1000SE. While I haven't used the new one yet, I'm already much happier with it. The compass is larger (greater surface area touching the table), the miter bar is longer and this one has a fence. I need all the beef and stability I can get since I'm using a DW745 jobsite, tablesaw. The front edge of the table is only 9.5" from the center of the blade.

Now to build the router table top...


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