# Hook Angle



## pemdas86 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hi All,

I'm not a furniture maker or a contractor. I have very limited spare time and a moderate budget -- only when times are good at work. My question and observation, and not to over simplify, but this is what I here about 10" and 12" blades for table saw and miter saw application:

10" table saw blade should have fewer teeth and a higher hook angle.
12" miter should have a much higher tooth count and a much lower hook angle.

Right? 

I am a DIY homeowner who likes to putter around and do what I can in a day or two when I have time. I like things to be done right, at least for the things that matter to me. My real hope is to retire after 30 years of a mortage paid off and a shop full of tools to spend the rest of my retirement, with decades of practice in the meantime.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Freud blades, and why, if any, reason I shouldn't use a blade with a negative hook angle on my 12" miter saw? I see these blades advertised specifically for sliding miters and radial arms. I understand the self-feeding problem, but does that matter for my typical chop saw miter ?

Just generally, does anyone think I'm barking up the wrong tree here with this concept ? Thanks so much. 

This Freud one has caught to my attention:

Freud (Diablo) # D1296N $65
12 in. x 96T Ultra Finish/Laminate Saw Blade 
-5 Degree Hook Angle 




Some day I will measure time with only sawdust.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Yes you simplified it. It really depends on what you are cutting and whether you are ripping and cross cutting. What you are saying is generally correct.

If you want top of the line blades for a decent price check out Forrest blades. I have been told there are better then I try, but always end up back with the Forrest blades.

http://www.amazon.com/Forrest-CM128...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1232939579&sr=1-1

http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.c...KER_II_Saw_Blade_1_Grind_for_Square_Cut_.html

http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/category_4_Chopmaster.html

http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/application_chart.html

I know it is twice the initial cost of the Freud blade you are talking about, but in reality when you factor in the resharpening I guarantee you this Forrest blade will cost the same as the Freud in the end and it cuts better than the Freud blade anyway. I personally have a Diablo blade sitting here and can not use it. It is not that great of a blade in my opinion. I let the guys use it when the saw went to a job site. Let me look at the condition of it and if there are no chips in the carbide or anything I'll give it to you if you want to pay the shipping. I just pack it in the box Forrest provides and in a week the blade comes back to me brand new.

I have been using the same Forrest Chopmaster on my miter saw for 5 years and only yesterday did I pack it up for a sharpening! I tend to get my table saw blades sharpened every year, sometimes twice a year I use the table saw a lot more.

If you really want the Freud blade though I see no problem with it.


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## pemdas86 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yes, I will check those out. Thanks!
Let me oversimplify again, 
Table saw for ripping.
Miter saw for crosscutting.

I probably crosscut alot more than ripping in my normal course of adventure, but that's not to say I don't have a use for ripping. In fact, I want to upgrade both versions of the table and miter so I can feel better (and safer) doing some more crafty projects. Most of the trim I've started doing in my house is oak and of course the pine keeps a comin' for everyting else.

I'm a one man show and work out of my garage only in the summer and/or warm weather. I have no reservations on keeping dedicated blades on two saws. This whole concept of hook angle has really got my attention. I'm so surprised that I've never been made ware of this before. So of course, I've been doing yet another thing wrong all these years!
So now's the time to fix it right the second time around


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## pemdas86 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks Nick!
I must say, even just checking out the Forrest website was much easier than the Freud website which is a convoluted mess even more so than the other typical places that acutally sell the blades. Not a fan of Amazon. The prices on the Forrest website are clearly posted and I don't get a bunch of redirection to strange websites for pricing and overall much easier to navigate to investigate the specs of each blade type and model. Looks sweet. Thanks again. One more for the memory banks on making an informed decision...


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

I second the commend about the Forest blades. I just upgraded to a Woodworker II (WWII) 40T combo blade, #1 grind, full kerf. Got all that? Ha! 

That is a beast of a blade! Cuts great and there is plenty of carbide on those teeth so it can be sharpened many times. I missed the sale at Amazon so I ended up paying about $110 at a Woodcraft store. But I'm still happy with the blade at the price when you amortize it over its potential lifetime.

You can't really go wrong with a decent combination blade with ATB (alternate top bevel) teeth. But it is a compromise.

If you haven't already, I suggest you find a copy of Kelly Mehler's book, "The Table Saw". I bought a copy second hand pretty cheap (2nd edition) and you might find it at a public library. He has some pretty good illustrations of the different grind and tooth types you find on blades. And I think it also shows the resulting cut in profile/cross-section.

Oh, and some other things that improve the cut you get with a combination blade (any blade really)

1) Keep it clean. Inspect the teeth and remove the blade and clean it if you see accumulated pitch, etc. Don't use oven cleaner, get something like "Simple Green" and a denture brush (stiffer bristles). Oven cleaner if not 100% removed after cleaning can attack the bronze in the brazing. Not likely to happen or cause serious damage, but why bother. Plus it stinks!

2) Blue tape is your friend for controlling tearout on cross cuts. I've been doing that on cross cutting of plywood and it works. Tape the line to be cut, both sides but at least the bottom (exit) side. Cut through the tape and carefully pull the now 2 pieces of tape off. Pull it off at a low angle and toward the fresh cut so you don't pop out fibers.

3) Use a zero-clearance-insert (ZCI) around the blade whenever possible. They can be expensive to buy if you need several for dado heads but they are very easy to make yourself. Search around here and you will find several threads and ideas.

4) A cross-cut sled also helps with tear-out on smaller cross-cut pieces. It is a moving ZCI in some sense.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Steve,

The D1296N would be a fine choice for your non-sliding saw. For ripping on the table saw I recommend that you get a dedicated blade for that purpose and avoid the Combo and General Purpose blades. A 24 to 30 tooth rip blade will be more efficient with less risk of burning. I'm not sure what you found difficult about our website but there is a blade selection chart here that may help:
http://www.freudtools.com/t-blade_selector.aspx


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## pemdas86 (Nov 21, 2008)

Yes, thanks Charles, that helps very much. I acutally started making my own excel spreadsheet with all the different series and features so I could cross check for myself. But now that link saves alot of time, I didn't see it on the website when I looked. Much appreciated.

I do believe having dedicated blades is the way to go. Makes perfect sense. 

Thanks Rob for the good ideas. Last year I did make a crosscut sled, and fashioned by own zero clearance insert for my contractors saw. What a difference!
Blue tape, now that's a great idea! So much to learn, and so much time. Thanks!


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