# DIY Help...



## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Hi,

I'm new here and would really appreciate any and all help. I am a diy'er around the house but have come up with something I''m unfamiliar with but think a router would be the answer.

I'm installing a new dishwasher and (don't ask) but the previous owners did some crazy things. Anyway, I have a need to remove 1/2" from the 1" plywood under the countertop. I can not remove the countertop. I have an exposed edge to work with. The previous owners, somehow, did 1/3 of the job I need to finish now but don't know how they did it.

My 'thought' is that I could use a compact router with a straight bit and slowly cut the 1/2" away strip by strip with a straight bit.

Am I crazy?

Thanks for reading,
Bruce


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Welcome to the forums Bruce...

for what reason isn't fitting...
is it just the edge lip of the counter top getting in your way???
cutting the counter top would be the absolute last way to get the DW to fit and not a good plan.. 

can you adjust the unit's levelers any???
cut away the floor...
can you raise the cabs or raise the front of the counter top.. insert the DW abd set the cabs back down...



BTW... a tad crazy is a plus around here...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

willowdog96 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new here and would really appreciate any and all help. I am a diy'er around the house but have come up with something I''m unfamiliar with but think a router would be the answer.
> 
> ...


That sounds like a plan, one thing you have to watch for is that there is no fasteners,i.e. screws/nails driven down from the top into the rail you want to cut. If you hit one with a router bit the least damage will be ruin the bit.

A jig saw might be better. You would have to temporarily build out the lip you are going to leave, to be flush with the front of the counter edge and follow that as a guide to trim the front of the cabinet.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Herb Stoops...

I see it as he's trying to mill a ''pocket'' in the bottom of the counter top to accept the DW...
1'' thick *''plywood''* CT's are a bit unusual...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @Herb Stoops...
> 
> I see it as he's trying to mill a ''pocket'' in the bottom of the counter top to accept the DW...
> 1'' thick *''plywood''* CT's are a bit unusual...


You are probably right , I was thinking that the cabinet had a rail supporting the counter at the DW opening. I have ran across that when they used a face frame and the dishwasher was installed after everything was done and even with the adjustable feet all the way up was too high to slide into the opening. Also was caused with the addition of underlayment in remodels or thicker hardwood floors.

Herb


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Thanks for the welcome.

The opening is 1/2" too short. With the granite top I'd prefer not to move it. The original owners must have had a similar issue as they cut out 1/2" of the front of the granite and, somehow, removed the plywood about a third of the way back. 

Not being familiar with routers wasn't sure if this was a common/typical use but I guess it's similar to making a groove in wood I'm just making a huge groove.

Bruce


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

I would agree but that seems to be what is there. The think that messed up the original owners are a few things. The house has infloor heating and they re-did it by pouring 2" of concrete on the original floor. Then they put in the cabinet bases and then the put in the subfloor but not under the cabinets (not how I would have don't it) and then laid a wood floor on top of the subfloor. whew. 

Anyway, not sure why they put 1" of wood on top of the cabinet bases but they did. Did I mention that these were the same people who put in a stove vent with no venting outside (not a recirc unit either).

Being unfamiliar with routers in general I wasn't sure if this was a proper and safe use of them.

Bruce


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

They already did this and cut a 1/2 out of the front of the granite and the first 10" of the wood under the countertop.


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> @Herb Stoops...
> 
> I see it as he's trying to mill a ''pocket'' in the bottom of the counter top to accept the DW...
> 1'' thick *''plywood''* CT's are a bit unusual...



Re-looked. Might not be plywood but definitely 1".


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

The other problem is I will only be able to get within 3" or so of the edges with a compact router. Those 3" will be interesting as well.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

willowdog96 said:


> The other problem is I will only be able to get within 3" or so of the edges with a compact router. Those 3" will be interesting as well.


Chisel or use an oscillating multi tool. Alternatively forget the dishwasher and build more drawers or another box with shelves in it's space. Another option: a storage space for a mobile work centre with cutting block top.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

install a low profile DW...
return the other one or sell it...
be money and headache ahead...

wait till you see the total cost of tooling, the work and the mess...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Welcome, Bruce...

Might plunge and cross cuts with a multitool do this...plunge then cut out a "row" then repeat?


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

The best tool to do this is the multi tool. You can pick up a cheap one at Harbor Freight for about $15 dollars. These are great tools and can do things that no other tool can. Once you have used it a few times you will want to get a better one.


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## PapaTango (Oct 9, 2015)

I own a Fein Multimaster and would agree that the semi-circular blade would slice through the wood base/flooring without too much difficulty, apart from you being prone and in an awkward position. Just have to hope the neither the floorboard nor sub-floor base were glued down but then even if that is the case, once your perimeter lines are cut, you can lever the middle out, without finesse!


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

*Identify*

I think it would be more helpful to those trying to help you, if you could identify what the material actually is. I suggest that you chisel a chunk out and take it to someone more knowlegable if you are not sure. How tools excel is based on the material.


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## Bushwhacker (Jun 16, 2009)

After drawing up the plans for our new kitchen, I mentioned to my wife that we had forgotten the dishwasher. She just smiled and said
" no we didn't". We installed a pullout drawer for two trash cans, one for trash and one for recyclables. Guess who is the dish washer?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm going to be odd man out here. Get a counter top contractor in to remove the existing counter top, *add build-up to the cab. tops,* and re-install the counter tops. Or take Stick's advice re the low profile D.W.
Adding the build -up layer is what _wasn't_ done first time around. Going to cost? Yes. But again, as Stick suggested, anything else is is going to be a royal p.i.t.a.
Ruining the granite edge will haunt you forever, if I understood what's happening correctly.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm for the low profile DW. Will save a lot of grief and aggravation, and a few dollars.

HJ


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Nickp said:


> Welcome, Bruce...
> 
> Might plunge and cross cuts with a multitool do this...plunge then cut out a "row" then repeat?


Very much a possibility. I'm just not sure how much 'control' I'd have. I really only want to plane down 1/2" from under the counter. I feel I need to be pretty accurate. 

It's not the clearest picture but might help people visualize what I'm doing. Again, this is under the counter and not on the floor.

Thanks.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

willowdog96 said:


> Very much a possibility. I'm just not sure how much 'control' I'd have. I really only want to plane down 1/2" from under the counter. I feel I need to be pretty accurate.
> 
> It's not the clearest picture but might help people visualize what I'm doing. Again, this is under the counter and not on the floor.
> 
> Thanks.


Yup...thought so...I found I have a lot of control with the plunge blade on both my Fein and a couple of cheapies I've used. The "secret sauce" is to use a quality blade. Bosch has a good blade with a universal adapter ($.98, Home Depot) that cuts real well. You may have some nails or screws in there so I suggest the wood/metal blade just in case you hit one.

You could plunge to depth across the whole opening and then cut across. You could start shallow, say 1/2 or 1" at a time to get the feel of it. Don't push too hard, let the blade do the work and it will stay nice and flat and go where you want. If you catch the plunge in between the ply and the top, it might be even easier. You might even have success with the linoleum blade if it's just separating the two (glued).


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Bushwhacker said:


> After drawing up the plans for our new kitchen, I mentioned to my wife that we had forgotten the dishwasher. She just smiled and said
> " no we didn't". We installed a pullout drawer for two trash cans, one for trash and one for recyclables. Guess who is the dish washer?


That is Hilarious, you placed second to the trash. As the Colonel says,"time to stand up, Boy".

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

willowdog96 said:


> Very much a possibility. I'm just not sure how much 'control' I'd have. I really only want to plane down 1/2" from under the counter. I feel I need to be pretty accurate.
> 
> It's not the clearest picture but might help people visualize what I'm doing. Again, this is under the counter and not on the floor.
> 
> Thanks.


No one has suggested this,so I will throw it on the table. 

Could you build a surround for the opening to set the DW out 1/2"?
Also have you checked the depth of the opening against the DW depth? Sometimes the newer appliances will not fit the openings for older ones. 

Herb


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Nickp said:


> Yup...thought so...I found I have a lot of control with the plunge blade on both my Fein and a couple of cheapies I've used. The "secret sauce" is to use a quality blade. Bosch has a good blade with a universal adapter ($.98, Home Depot) that cuts real well. You may have some nails or screws in there so I suggest the wood/metal blade just in case you hit one.
> 
> You could plunge to depth across the whole opening and then cut across. You could start shallow, say 1/2 or 1" at a time to get the feel of it. Don't push too hard, let the blade do the work and it will stay nice and flat and go where you want. If you catch the plunge in between the ply and the top, it might be even easier. You might even have success with the linoleum blade if it's just separating the two (glued).


I will look into the multitool more. When I look at the part that was 'done' I can see more evidence of this type of technique than having had used a router in that the surface left behind while pretty level is not particularly flat.

Thanks


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

willowdog96 said:


> I will look into the multitool more. When I look at the part that was 'done' I can see more evidence of this type of technique than having had used a router in that the surface left behind while pretty level is not particularly flat.
> 
> Thanks


None of us on the forum will ever see it from where we sit...  especially after you put the washer in...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Nickp said:


> None of us on the forum will ever see it from where we sit...  especially after you put the washer in...


I agree with Nick, And a good sharp chisel would solve the problem. Sometimes hand tools to the rescue,whether you want to use them or not.

Herb


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> oscillating multi tool


Think this is what I'll try.

Thanks.


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## tacomamacxtech (Mar 31, 2009)

Check out. . . Rockwell VersaCut Circular Saw. It is small, and will cut deeper than 1".
I would made scoring cuts from front to back and chisel out the wood!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I would consider cutting an opening in the ply and adding a layer of ply below that. That will give you a full extra inch (or 3/4 inch). Split the plug you will be putting in into two parts and put temporaty handles on each segment so you can hold them in position while screwing them in place through the top of the existing ply. You could use some glue to reinforce this. The handles will allow you to use a rod of some sort to hold the new ply tight to the bottom of the old. Many screws to hold it fast! I am assuming that the old ply has space below it for a blade to cut through. If you're concerned about moisture, seal the new bottom. I like simple solutions.


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## willowdog96 (May 13, 2016)

Final project complete. In the end I used a mini-circular saw to cut the lines of a chessboard pattern. The lines were 1/2" deep. I then used the multi-tool to 'pop' off each square from the side.

Thanks for all of your help. I realized this is a router forum but I appreciate the leads to the multi-tool.

Best,
Bruce


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

tacomamactech said:


> Check out. . . Rockwell VersaCut Circular Saw. It is small, and will cut deeper than 1".
> I would made scoring cuts from front to back and chisel out the wood!


The problem with any tool like that is that it won't cut into the corners which leaves you with a chiseling job to finish it. The oscillating multi tool will cut right to corners. In fact it will cut through the corner if it isn't over an inch or so thick. That's what makes it ideal for jobs like this.


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