# Plunge Router



## mi77915 (Aug 15, 2009)

Hi,

I am in the market for a new router. I have an old B&D 3 hp router that has seen better days. I am looking for a GOOD plunge router that wont break the bank. One that I have been looking at is the Hitachi KM12VC, it seems to have good reviews and the price is in the range that I can "swing" right now. Any comments/suggestions would be a great help.

Thank you,

Tom


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mi77915 said:


> I am in the market for a new router. I have an old B&D 3 hp router that has seen better days. I am looking for a GOOD plunge router that wont break the bank. One that I have been looking at is the Hitachi KM12VC, it seems to have good reviews and the price is in the range that I can "swing" right now. Any comments/suggestions would be a great help.


A typical "nice" router would look like this:
1.	½" chuck: Smaller bit shafts can be fit using an adapter.
2.	2 wrench collet: This is getting scarce but search for it. Sometimes it is hidden or it can be retrofitted. This is the alternative to the spindle lock which I consider dangerous.
3.	Variable speed: (8,000 rpm to >24,000 rpm.) Nice but close to useless <3HP, but mandatory >3HP. Note that the slower speeds are mandatory for larger bits but you need the horsepower to push them.
4.	Plunge base: This is the most versatile, but a fixed base is fine for a third or fourth router
5.	Bit clearance: Able to accept or modifiable for large panel bits 3½" to 3¾"+. Mandatory for panel bits.
6.	Guide holes: These are used to mount a straight edge guide or for ski and foot use. These need to be a minimum of 12mm or ½". 
7.	Soft start: Is handy especially with the heavier horsepower (higher wattage) routers. Without it, a starting router could be wrenched out of your hands.
8.	Light weight but versatile and powerful. With power you want weight but you also want to pick it up and use it all day long. Sometimes table mounting is a viable solution.
9.	1¾" template guide hole: 1½" hole with a " shoulder for brass template guides. There is the Porter Cable 1 3/16ths standard but is too small for even occasional use. Makita allows for a 40mm template guide.



Hi Tom:

You're opening a can of worms here and I'm going to be the devil's advocate. I was recently in a tool store that had Milwaukee, PorterCable, Triton, Dewalt and Freud routers. I took a look at each and arrived at the following observations.

You want 12mm holes in the metal base to accommodate the straight edge guide and if you take off the plastic baseplate, you want a clear 3 3/4" hole to clear large bits. 

The PorterCable may be a popular brand but none have straight edge holes large enough to provide stable ski work. Further, of the models on display, none had openings in the metal base large enough to handle >3" bits used for panel molding for kitchen cupboards.

The Milwaukee suffered the same fate except for one heavier model. However, there are those here who have had problems with Milwaukee products.

The Freud had all of the right stuff (except it had a spindle lock and no two-wrench capability) but there are versions of the Freud that won't fit into anything (including Freud) except home-built tables. Not that it is a bad thing. I make my own tables using OakPark baseplates.

The store didn't sell Hitachi or Makita. Probably one of the best routers for versatility and robustness is the Hitachi M12V. Unfortunately, it is no longer made but if you find one used, there are still parts available at Hitachi service centres. The M12V2 solves a few problems (like having to modify the base for oversized bits) but creates others by adding a vacuum attachment that interferes with just about everyting and the template guide mounts cannot be removed without major effort. The spindle lock cannot be defeated nor replaced thus rendering the M12V2 useless.

The Makita is equally versatile and robust as the M12V but it has one glaring problem in that it will not take large bits without major expense and effort to modify the base. 

These are the only ones I've seen lately. I would like to hear from others and perhaps create a table based on the 9 desirable features of routers that I've copied above.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

A typical nice router would look like this, you don't need a tank of a router, plus the price is right  plus they come with All the extra items you want to see in a good router..

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00917543000P?vName=Tools&keyword=all+routers
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00928084000P?vName=Tools&keyword=all+routers

=========






mi77915 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am in the market for a new router. I have an old B&D 3 hp router that has seen better days. I am looking for a GOOD plunge router that wont break the bank. One that I have been looking at is the Hitachi KM12VC, it seems to have good reviews and the price is in the range that I can "swing" right now. Any comments/suggestions would be a great help.
> 
> ...


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## sanforno (Mar 26, 2010)

I am looking for a new router also. The bosch 1619 seems to have the best reviews.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I would like to know why the spindle lock is considered dangerous. 

I have nothing against using two wrenches, and think it might even be easier than some spindle locks I have used, but on some other, smaller rotary tools such as a Rotozip RZ5 and a Black&Decker Wizard (dremel clone) I have liked the spindle locks they have. Same with the large push in button that goes through the top of the router on my brother's craftsman that normally takes me a hour or more to remember that is how it is done. 

The other two spindle locks I have are of the have to keep it pushed it while using it...on second thought the Rotozip might be the same way, but I can't remember off hand even though I just changed a disc on the zipmate attachment a couple of weeks ago.

I have no experience with the two wrench set up on a router. Needed it on some other things I have done, but never a router.

Bob, I passed those links to She who buys my toys so she can check and see if they are eligible for the craftsman club discount (the only way she would buy them)


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

sanforno said:


> I am looking for a new router also. The bosch 1619 seems to have the best reviews.


but, does it have the "basics" noted above? They don't mention these things in the blurbs on the ad pages.

I visited the Sears site for the Craftsman routers noted above and not one bit of information about capability or capacities. The only comment I have about Craftsman is the lack of parts. I threw out a box full of Craftsman tools, all workable but for a simple part that was unique and no longer available.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

DerekO said:


> I would like to know why the spindle lock is considered dangerous.
> 
> I have nothing against using two wrenches, and think it might even be easier than some spindle locks I have used, but on some other, smaller rotary tools such as a Rotozip RZ5 and a Black&Decker Wizard (dremel clone) I have liked the spindle locks they have. Same with the large push in button that goes through the top of the router on my brother's craftsman that normally takes me a hour or more to remember that is how it is done.
> 
> ...


Hi Derek:

This is my experience from using spindle locks on Craftsman and Hitachi. Thankfully, my Makitas are too old to have it.

"The spindle lock type requires that you... (minimum requirement 4 hands)
1. hold the bit precisely 1mm from the bottom, 
2. hold the spindle lock, 
3. hold the body of the router tightly, 
4. now with the other hand put some beef into the wrench to tighten down the sleeve. 

To release the collet, (minimum requirement, 3 hands.)
1. engage the spindle lock, 
2. hold the router tightly and 
3. heave the wrench in the opposite direction to tightening. 
Note, hold the router, not the router base. Hmmmm, I'll stick with 2 wrenches."

The only time I've had bits come loose is when using a spindle lock. For some reason the collet would be tight then loosen under speed. This has never happened with 2 wrenches. I've also broken the spindle lock on the Craftsman rendering it useless because of the lack of parts.

I built my tables with 2x4 frames at the top to "catch" flying bits before I was able to find the wrenches I needed. 

For the 2 wrenches, I find that a full strong one-handed squeeze on the two wrenches is "just right" to hold bits securely but still be able to get them off without a vice.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, I can understand it now. 

I have rarely ever had a problem with something getting loose that I could get decent access to tighten down with 1 wrench let alone two. I usually have the opposite problem in that it will be too tight and any one else will either need to get more leverage on the wrench, bang it or bring it back to me. And sometimes whatever it is, I sometimes need to add leverage to the wrench, or with router wrenches go get a real wrench instead of the flat metal things the manufacturers provide

The ones I have used so far all work pretty good with the spindle locks.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Just my 2 cents....it's hard to break the spindle lock pin,unless you think that you are King Kong, the collet nuts are made to work for a very long time and hold the bits tight without the need of a hammer to get them tight..PC is one of the routers that will let you use the two wrench way if you want,the finger pinch way.
The Freud and the Hitachi come with a slide in wrench so to speak as part of the lock systems so only one wrench is needed, once the router is mounted in the table or on the over size base plate you have a way to keep the router from turning.

As far as getting parts for the OLDER Craftsman routers (tools) try getting parts for the older Hitachi in 10 years from now.. forget that one..once they retool that's it..

One more note, that's why they started to put the lock pin on many of the new routers to make it easy-er for the user to switch out the bits with just one wrench.

*John* of the woodshop demo web site is a long time user of the Hitachi 12V and the Sommerfeld way of using the router table, it's worth the time to check out his web site to see the many tips on how to use the Hitachi..note the lock system he is now using on his router table with the push/pull knob on the outside of the router cabinet for the Hitachi.

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/cmt-jr6.htm
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/menu2.htm

===



DerekO said:


> I would like to know why the spindle lock is considered dangerous.
> 
> I have nothing against using two wrenches, and think it might even be easier than some spindle locks I have used, but on some other, smaller rotary tools such as a Rotozip RZ5 and a Black&Decker Wizard (dremel clone) I have liked the spindle locks they have. Same with the large push in button that goes through the top of the router on my brother's craftsman that normally takes me a hour or more to remember that is how it is done.
> 
> ...


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi, I agree with Bob. I have no problems with the pin lock on the routers. I prefer them to using two wrenches. The Tritons for instance when mounted in a table & raised all the way up it will automatically lock the spindle & lock the start switch in case you forgot to pull the power from the router. The Hitachi lock works more like a wrench than a pin. I have never come close to breaking a pin off & it allows me to free up a hand if needed.

If you want to keep your router bit from bottoming out in the collet just insert a 1/2" rubber grommet in the bottom. This is especially useful with matching equal height cabinet making bits.

Most larger hp routers come with softstart these days & if you want to run the larger panel bits they should only be used with router mounted in a table which would allow you to take the limiting baseplate off.

Many routers allow for the standard PC bushings which have many uses & are easy to find as almost everybody carries them.

I use the Porter Cable pc690 (1-3/4hp) routers daily for flush trimming, roundovers, & edge detailing. You don't really need more router than this for these operations. The PCs are workhorses & I can use them all day everyday routing mdf & even covered in mdf dust they just keep working without problems. I will usually lose a bearing, wear out the bit before the router has problems. For general routing these will not disappoint either.

I just bought another router yesterday at Sears & it was the Craftsman that Bob posted in his link. Regular price was 119.00 But I joined the Craftsman club & saved 20.00. That dropped the price down to 99.00 for the combo. Time will tell if I like it, This router is 2hp & has built in led lights to light up your work which I think is a good feature & for the price it is a good deal.

I have the Triton 3-1/4hp & the Hitachi 3-1/4hp M12V mounted in tables & they are great performers. I do wish they still made the M12V because it is an outstanding router that is also very quiet compared to others. If you could find one of these you will not be disappointed.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Breaking the pin is the problem with my Rotozip. No clue how it happened. Was there, then when I next went to use it wasn't there and I found it on the ground. Took me a lot of searching to find the replacement parts and even had some one from rotozip tell me they were unavailable. I know the part numbers because I had found them on a UK site that didn't ship to the states, so I just kept looking around and finally got them from the Bosch site. My finding them happened in between my asking for help at Rotozip and them replying the parts were unavailable.

Bad news to it is I was unable to install the new pin and in attempting to do it managed to get it so stuck in there I am not even able to do the temp solution of using a tiny screwdriver in it's place. At least it had the part that runs the zipmate wheel in the chuck when I got the piece stuck so I can still use it for that attachment or any other that would use that same socket pin type of thing to drive it.

I tried to get the pin out of there, but without a vise I wasn't able to hit it hard enough from the inside to knock it back out. I suppose now that it is warm I could take it over to my parents and try it in Dad's vice. Or just continue the whispering in my Wife's ear that I need a new one with the X shield attachment. Had Her weakened at Christmas but got the table saw and router/table combo instead.



> I just bought another router yesterday at Sears & it was the Craftsman that Bob posted in his link. Regular price was 119.00 But I joined the Craftsman club & saved 20.00. That dropped the price down to 99.00 for the combo. Time will tell if I like it, This router is 2hp & has built in led lights to light up your work which I think is a good feature & for the price it is a good deal.


Just sent this information to my Wife so maybe I will be getting that one sooner than I thought I would get another router. Nothing like a good sale or discount to influence Her


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

bump, see my add on about The Woodshop demo site..


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

DerekO said:


> Ok, I can understand it now.
> 
> I have rarely ever had a problem with something getting loose that I could get decent access to tighten down with 1 wrench let alone two. I usually have the opposite problem in that it will be too tight and any one else will either need to get more leverage on the wrench, bang it or bring it back to me. And sometimes whatever it is, I sometimes need to add leverage to the wrench, or with router wrenches go get a real wrench instead of the flat metal things the manufacturers provide
> 
> The ones I have used so far all work pretty good with the spindle locks.


I don't know which of the videos but Bob Rozendahl shows the "how to loosen a seized bit with a screwdriver" method of removing bits. Once I had a bit seized in the Hitachi, before I found the two wrenches, and it was a **** ** *** *** to get out. It took a lot of experimenting to remove it.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> King Kong


Then, I must be 10 King Kongs because all it took was a stuck bit to break the casing where the spindle lock lever was positioned.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jlord said:


> Hi, I agree with Bob. I have no problems with the pin lock on the routers. I prefer them to using two wrenches. The Tritons for instance when mounted in a table & raised all the way up it will automatically lock the spindle & lock the start switch in case you forgot to pull the power from the router. The Hitachi lock works more like a wrench than a pin. I have never come close to breaking a pin off & it allows me to free up a hand if needed.


I agree. When you use a router lift, it is very difficult to use the two wrench method. However, I use the OakPark baseplate. Just lift the baseplate and all is exposed. Two handed is easy.



> If you want to keep your router bit from bottoming out in the collet just insert a 1/4" rubber grommet in the bottom. This is especially useful with matching equal height cabinet making bits.


In the M12V this is a 1/2" plumbing washer fit into the base of the furrow, I think that's what it is called.



> Most larger hp routers come with softstart these days & if you want to run the larger panel bits they should only be used with router mounted in a table which would allow you to take the limiting baseplate off.


I've not seen or used enough routers to be able to comment. My comment was intended as an insurance rather than have someone take it for granted.



> Many routers allow for the standard PC bushings which have many uses & are easy to find as almost everybody carries them.


I agree with the availability but not with the function. The larger diameter guides provide greater visibility and greater depth than do the PC bushings. Of course, I speak only for brass guides.



> I use the Porter Cable pc690 (1-3/4hp) routers daily for flush trimming, roundovers, & edge detailing. You don't really need more router than this for these operations. The PCs are workhorses & I can use them all day everyday routing mdf & even covered in mdf dust they just keep working without problems. I will usually lose a bearing, wear out the bit before the router has problems. For general routing these will not disappoint either.


For most edging work, I use the Makita 3601B, 8.5 amp., a "D" handled router. However, I've since made a shi and I prefer it with the M12V for heavier edging.



> I just bought another router yesterday at Sears & it was the Craftsman that Bob posted in his link. Regular price was 119.00 But I joined the Craftsman club & saved 20.00. That dropped the price down to 99.00 for the combo. Time will tell if I like it, This router is 2hp & has built in led lights to light up your work which I think is a good feature & for the price it is a good deal.


I need more than light, I need a magnifying glass too, so I got the Rockler illuminated magnifying glass. However, I hope you will be happy with your selection. I have a "thing" about Sears in Canada. Parts availability has a limited lifetime.



> I have the Triton 3-1/4hp & the Hitachi 3-1/4hp M12V mounted in tables & they are great performers. I do wish they still made the M12V because it is an outstanding router that is also very quiet compared to others. If you could find one of these you will not be disappointed.


Have you modified the M12V for table use? I picked one up at a garage sale that had been stripped for table use and the missing parts make it unusable for anything else. I have no experience with the Triton. Information for an informed opinion is not available.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Ron is right; this post is a can of worms, yet it's the most natural post in the world for someone new here just starting out in routing. It's a can of worms because the best answer to "what's the best" is "depends upon how you're going to use it". 

To add an analogy all can relate to, compare it a posting of "What vehicle is best?" The answer depends upon how you're going to use it, how often you need it and the value you place on having it never fail.

If someone were to say "I need to drive it to and from work and I need it to haul dirt", the first answer might be a pickup but, if you only needed to haul a yard or so of dirt, were commuting 100 miles one-way and were hauling it from your employers dirt-pile, the "best" answer might be an economy car with a couple of 2-gallon pails, hauling a little bit home from work each day. If you had to haul 8000#/week on an ongoing basis, you're back to your pick-up. 

Do you need to pick up this gravel and carry it to a job site that you have 5 workers you're paying to be there to spread it and if the truck breaks down you still have to pay them but you don't get paid? If so, then you may want to consider new and heavier-duty truck. Is this a long-term contract, you may want to consider a diesel engine. The list goes on and on.

Does that make the posts before (and after) me less valuable? Quite the contrary, for they help enlighten you to the permutations to consider. Also, for some of the limitations listed above, there are workarounds. This is also the reason why many here have more than one router; different routers excel at different cuts. I currently have 5 routers (two of which are dual-base) in my router stable but I'm *far* from the max here and can now see where some day my stable may nearly double. Others here have 50+ routers, with many dedicated to specialty jigs that require some amount of router setup to utilize the jig.

One of the early questions is whether or not you see yourself using large horizontal raised panel bits. Answering that "yes" requires a "tank" of a router, typically 15A with a 3-5/8" or larger bit hole and a sturdy router table to work upon, as such bits should never be used freehand. On the other hand, that tank is going to weigh 13-16#, requiring a lot of work to finesse fine hand-held cuts. 

My first router was a hand-held tank plunger. If I were starting over, my first router would likely be the Craftsman 17543 that BJ3 recommends above. It has a little less power and won't handle a 3-1/2" horizontal bit but supports both 1/4" and 1/2" shanks, is variable speed, comes with dual (fixed and plunge) bases, has height adjustment through a router table base, and has LED's shining where the bit cuts and, for the $120, is a good place to start. While it won't handle the 3-1/2" horizontal bits, the cuts for everything except *arched panel* raised panel bits can be cut with vertical raised panel bits. It doesn't have 12mm through-ways for mounting skiis but BJ3 has a posting on how to make a universal ski base from polycarbonate. In all it'll let you get started, leave you some money for wood and bits (that 3-1/2" CMT raised panel bit will set you back ~$90 before you add another $100 for the rail and stile bit to finish the set).

On the other (cost) extreme, you could go with a trio of Festool plunge routers (one tank, one mid-sized, one trim), all plungers for $800, $470 and $370 respectively. You'd have brand bragging rights but you'd also be out ~$1,650 and still not have a router table, bits or any wood to cut.

To further my 17543 recommendation, I have one in my stable that also contains Bosch, Freud and Porter-Cable but, for many cuts, I go to the Craftsman because it feels best in my hands for that use. 

Last but not least, I recommend visiting as many of your nearby stores and picking up as many models as possible. How do they feel in your hands... as if you're not comfortable working with it, it'll remain like most routers: packed in the original box, on the shelf in the garage.

Also allow yourself that you may want to add a second router to your stable in the future before you buy your first. It'll keep you from making so many compromises that what you get will accomplish all, but none really well or at least few comfortably.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Nice post, Jim


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## mi77915 (Aug 15, 2009)

WOW!!! Lots of great info here!!! Thanks to all for your replies. I certainly didn't want to open a can of worms, just in need of a new router and was looking for some GOOD advise on a plunge router that was about $120. I realize that by asking such a "simplistic" question that it is like asking: which is better, a Ford or a Chevy. But we wont go there either :no:
I am not a professional woodworker, just a weekend hobbyist that enjoys building a few projects a year. I just didn't want to get a el-cheepo brand and have it break after a couple of projects (been there before). :angry:

Thanks again,

Tom


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

James, Derek, Jim:

All of you contributed handsomely to a daunting topic and I thank you for your candor. 

Now, the next step is to define a series of 'tests" that can be applied to a router and the results noted.

I'm not talking about how fast or deep a router can cut a groove but more the "features" of each router. i.e. what size are the holes for the straight-edge guide. My M12V has two 12mm hex columns machined into the base. My Makita 3601B has one 10mm. How wide is the throat? 

Next thing we have to ask is how critical is each of these "features." For example, a 3 3/4" throat is useless if you're never going to use horizontal panel bits.

And the list goes on and on.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

mi77915 said:


> WOW!!! Lots of great info here!!! Thanks to all for your replies. I certainly didn't want to open a can of worms, just in need of a new router and was looking for some GOOD advise on a plunge router that was about $120. I realize that by asking such a "simplistic" question that it is like asking: which is better, a Ford or a Chevy. But we wont go there either :no:
> I am not a professional woodworker, just a weekend hobbyist that enjoys building a few projects a year. I just didn't want to get a el-cheepo brand and have it break after a couple of projects (been there before). :angry:
> 
> Thanks again,
> ...


Hi Tom, I was wondering when the thread was going to get back to your question
I have the little Hitachi M12VC and it is are very nice, light weight router. I found it extremely easy to handle. No, it doesn't have all the dodads but enough to keep most people occupied. If you are going for the kit, fixed and plunge base, it includes almost a full set of PC style bushings. No, it wont take the larger bushings without modification but I haven't found the need for that yet. Besides, those big ones are expensive. 

The plunge base, I believe, will work differently than your B&D. I believe the B&D is a "plunge then lock" arrangement, similar to Porter Cable. The Hitachi has a spring loaded lock that must be actuated to plunge and release to lock. I love it and hate it. Real PIA if doing a lot of repetetive plunges such as shelf pins but I love it when I just plunge and go. About the only real complaint I have is the power switch is black as is the top of the router. I found myself having to look for it until I put a dab of white paint on it.
Hope this helps, If you have any specific questions jump in or PM me.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

Let me say I DON'T know it all but I will say I have played with MANY,MANY routers 

I can show you the water but I can't make you drink nor would I want to, the bottom line is what you want to use the router for..I will also say you can't have to many router  it's like having a full set of screw drivers, the right tool for the right job thing.. 

I will also say I must have over 250 screw drivers all made to do one type of job.

=======


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> In the M12V this is a 1/2" plumbing washer fit into the base of the furrow, I think that's what it is called.


Hi Ron,
This is the rubber grommet I use in the collets of my routers. It is the type used to run wiring thru sheet metal. It is 1/2" & fits in the collet. This is the same grommet Sommerfeld sends with their cabinet making bits as that's where I got this one. But you can buy these anywhere. 

As for the Hitachi M12V I have dedicated to a table I did have to modify it a little, but it was minor. It's been awhile but I installed it with a router raizer so I removed the springs & cut off a couple of little tabs to use the large 3-1/2" panel bits. This was described in the router raizer instructions. I do not have the base plate mounted on it as it is mounted directly to the table. This router is pretty quiet compared to the Triton. You cannot hear it run when the dc is running.

To the O/P look into the Craftsman router combo. It comes with 2hp, led lights, plunge base, fixed base, edge guide, & a bag to store it in. Here it goes for $119.00 & I joined the craftsman club & got another $20.00 off. So the combo cost me $99.00 plus tax which here in LA county CA. was 9.75%. For the cost of what you get it is a good deal. 

If you were to use the panel bits once in awhile the 2hp would do the job. You just make multiple passes for the raised panel. If you intend to make them all the time then I would get a 3-1/4hp router. Even with 3-1/4hp routers I still make 2 passes on the panels. The only time I would route a raised panel in 1 pass would be on a 3hp+ shaper with a power feeder.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> Let me say I DON'T know it all but I will say I have played with MANY,MANY routers
> 
> ...


I agree with you on the multiple routers Bob. When I see a pc690 on sale I usually pick one up. I have one I use just for half blind dovetails for making drawers. It stays setup with the bushing & bit & that's all I use that router for. One has a flush trim bit installed, another with a hinge mortising bit that's used just for hanging doors & if I need another profile I use another router.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> James, Derek, Jim:
> 
> Now, the next step is to define a series of 'tests" that can be applied to a router and the results noted.


Either that or you can allow for possibility that you may add another router (or routers) to your stable in the future and get one that is a good general purpose one and use it for a while. As you route projects you'll get a better feeling for which of this dizzying list of "features" are important to you. Then you'll be in a better place to judge your end needs... and the router(s) required to get you there. With a good GP router in place, you can focus your selection on a few specific features that are really important to you (such as 3hp & heavy vs. 1hp & light) for your second one. 

I stand by my opinion that seeking the "one solution meets all needs" likely leaves one with tools that may accomplish all, but none well or comfortably... sorta like the "swiss knife"*. Your mileage may vary, Ron. 

* Swiss knife is (at least here in America) slang for a knife with a whole bunch of specialty blades... scissors, toothpick, tweezers, corkscrew, awl, file, fish hook de-gorger, etc.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

That's the big thing that sets routers apart from many other tools.. for it is (essentially) a high-speed motor with handles that can do anything that can be mounted with a 1/4" or 1/2" shaft, handled with a 15A universal motor, and spin (at the shaft) in the 8,000 - 30,000 (depending upon router size) range, with the appropriate jig or bracket!


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

Just a couple quick points. one is, I used to own a Hitachi KM12 router kit, it was a good router. But I have used the C-man 17543 it's a lot smoother(plunge) and seems to be a little better to me. Second, I own the "useless" M12V2, it has been a great router. Maybe it's because I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, but I have no trouble quickly installing or removing bits. Every once in a while I lift it out of the table to blow the dust out of it. Otherwise it stays in the table for all adjustments and bit changes.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mi77915 said:


> WOW!!! Lots of great info here!!! Thanks to all for your replies. I certainly didn't want to open a can of worms, just in need of a new router and was looking for some GOOD advise on a plunge router that was about $120. I realize that by asking such a "simplistic" question that it is like asking: which is better, a Ford or a Chevy. But we wont go there either :no:
> I am not a professional woodworker, just a weekend hobbyist that enjoys building a few projects a year. I just didn't want to get a el-cheepo brand and have it break after a couple of projects (been there before). :angry:
> 
> Thanks again,
> ...


Hi Tom:

And I wish I could give you the easy answer but there is none. There are 18 methods of using a router and you have to learn the methods then decide which ones you're going to use and the tool appropriate for your needs.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jlord said:


> If you were to use the panel bits once in awhile the 2hp would do the job. You just make multiple passes for the raised panel. If you intend to make them all the time then I would get a 3-1/4hp router. Even with 3-1/4hp routers I still make 2 passes on the panels. The only time I would route a raised panel in 1 pass would be on a 3hp+ shaper with a power feeder.


Hi James:

You never know what you're going to run into. When I was assembling this shop, my real estate agent was restoring a 19th century home. I found myself running 1 1/2" radius 1/4 round molding for him. That was one _mean_ bit.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

RustyW said:


> Just a couple quick points. one is, I used to own a Hitachi KM12 router kit, it was a good router. But I have used the C-man 17543 it's a lot smoother(plunge) and seems to be a little better to me. Second, I own the "useless" M12V2, it has been a great router. Maybe it's because I have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs, but I have no trouble quickly installing or removing bits. Every once in a while I lift it out of the table to blow the dust out of it. Otherwise it stays in the table for all adjustments and bit changes.


Hi Rusty:

Thanks for speaking up. I was hoping someone would come to the defense of the M12V2. Now, if we could only come to some way of comparing the old to the new.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

BigJimAK said:


> Either that or you can allow for possibility that you may add another router (or routers)...


What I perceive at the moment is the lack of routers that will take the big bits. Granted, this is not an everyday occasion for many but it is still a very valid use of a router. When I was in the store, there were two and for various reasons I wouldn't buy either of them.



> I stand by my opinion that seeking the "one solution meets all needs" likely leaves one with tools that may accomplish all, but none well or comfortably... sorta like the "swiss knife"*. Your mileage may vary, Ron.


There is no one solution to every problem. I have a variety of capabilities in my routers but I have to be frugal with my funds so I buy the most versatile for all that I expect to do. However, I perceive that many other people are in the same boat as I am so I will provide my perspective.

You must also remember that when someone comes to this forum, a router is, as you said, a high speed motor with handles. It took me months to figure out that there are 18 methods to using a router and that each method uses different capabilities of a router. Worse, one matches jigs and fixtures to the method being used which, in turn, dictates the router to be used.

There are good buys and bad ones. I speak to my experience and iterate the bad ones and why. The good ones become a real problem. There are just so many routers out there of a variety of different styles, the choice is mind-boggling. As Tom said, he didn't want to waste his money. I wrote an essay that I used to put everything into perspective for me and to help me match my proposed use of a router to the machine(s) most likely to meet those requirements. It worked for me.



> * Swiss knife is (at least here in America) slang for a knife with a whole bunch of specialty blades... scissors, toothpick, tweezers, corkscrew, awl, file, fish hook de-gorger, etc.


If there were a swiss army knife of routers, it would be a heavy 3+hp plunge with big bit capability mated with an OakPark baseplate.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Imagine a swiss router knife, just pull out another router instead of another attachment out of the holder


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