# Mortise?



## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm thinking of building a modified Nicholson-style vise as the side vise on my workbench. I saw a video from the Unplugged Woodshop out of Canada (link below) on a Nicholson-style vise that had one bench screw and one square wooden anti-racking bar. The challenge of making a similar a vise appeals to me.

My plan was to make a similar vise with a centered bench screw and two square maple anti-racking bars. The problem is that the wood I have out of which to make the vise jaws is Doug fir and it's presenting a problem. I cut two 7/8 square bars out of a piece of hard maple I had lying around and thought they would be perfect for the project. Then reality set in. I tried to cut through mortises in Doug fir to test my ability but found the wood to be extremely frustrating...hard to work with a (very sharp) hand chisel and mallet. I tried several times, starting with 7/8 round holes but could not fashion a good-looking, snug fitting mortise like the one in the video. And my chisel quickly loses its edge and needs to be resharpened. I don't have a hollow-chisel mortise.

Do I need to give up on Doug fir and use a different species that is more amenable to machining? Or am I doing something wrong?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm currently working in some very dry D fir for a door and making mortises and not finding it a problem. Try shaving it as opposed to chiseling off substantial amounts of wood. It trims better and cleaner that way. The heavy cuts turn out rough.

One issue I can see possible for that setup is the potential of swelling and contracting of the anti racking bar with changes in humidity. Also, the farther from the screw, the more it will rack, bar or no bar. Even if the bar was metal through a metal mortise it would still rack some. The only type vise I know of that won't rack is the Veritas (LV) twin screw vise. It's pricey but well worth it.


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## Tonto1 (Nov 10, 2016)

Sorry for being ignorant, but what is racking?


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Force exerted that twists the components of a joint in opposite directions.
A


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Racking is...in this case...the property of a vise jaw to twist away from alignment with the other jaw or to tilt so the faces of the two jaws are not in the same plane. The two (typically) steel bars on either side of a woodworking vise are to prevent racking, e.g., twisting in a lateral direction or tilting fore and aft.

Questions, sincerely posed, are not ignorant. They are a quest for knowledge.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

As regards through mortises in the 1-1/2" thick vise jaw, I'm considering trying to use my jig saw to rough out the hole after boring and then use the (very sharp) chisel to clean up the edges. Comments?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That should work. It would be good if you have a square with only about a 1" wide tongue on one side or a try square like that to check the sides of the hole with as you remove material with the chisel.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Chuck, If you are talking about the fibers of the wood tearing and crushing as you mortice the wood, it is because the dark grain of douglas fir is as hard as many hardwoods, but between the grain it is very soft and it tends to crush. You can change the angle of your chisel from 25 degrees to about 17 degrees to make cleaner cuts...BUT it also makes the chisel much weaker. if you re grind your chisel to 17 degrees, reserve it for use on pine only to keep from breaking the tip off.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Racking often occurs when you place a small piece of wood near one end of a vise without a similar piece on the other end. As you tighten down, the open end tries to close down more than the end holding the piece, so the vise sides are no longer parallel, and sometimes this can twist the work piece, or even damage the vise mechanism or the wood in the vise itself. It is undesirable at any rate, given the amount of force a vise can apply. Add the second piece to the other end of the vise and it won't rack. 

The photo is of a little jig with several thicknesses of ply you insert to avoid racking. Without the jig inserted, tightening enough to work the piece on the left would possibly twist the workpiece a bit, making it harder to cut the dovetails 90 to the board's surface. which would produce a useless joint that cannot mate or glue up properly.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Have you considered making a template and routing them with a plunge router? Either drilling the hole like you are then routing them square.
Another consideration is to take a rasp and make a round tenon on the end of your square guide piece.
Herb


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Have you considered making a template and routing them with a plunge router? Either drilling the hole like you are then routing them square.
> Another consideration is to take a rasp and make a round tenon on the end of your square guide piece.
> Herb


Hadn't considered that, Herb, but I will take a look. Maybe a hybrid approach? The bars are 7/8" square and the jaw is 1-1/2" thick. Perhaps a round tenon 3/4" in diameter by 1-1/8" long on the bar and a square 7/8" mortise on the jaw 3/8" deep backed by a 3/4" through hole? That might be fairly easy to do and mechanically strong enough.

That would save me having to chop through 1-1/2" of Doug fir. Maybe I'll just use 3/4 or 1" oak dowel. That would save me trying to align 3 sets of square holes...two in each of the front jaw, the rear jaw and the under-bench support.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

sfchuck said:


> Hadn't considered that, Herb, but I will take a look. Maybe a hybrid approach? The bars are 7/8" square and the jaw is 1-1/2" thick. Perhaps a round tenon 3/4" in diameter by 1-1/8" long on the bar and a square 7/8" mortise on the jaw 3/8" deep backed by a 3/4" through hole? That might be fairly easy to do and mechanically strong enough.
> 
> That would save me having to chop through 1-1/2" of Doug fir. Maybe I'll just use 3/4 or 1" oak dowel. That would save me trying to align 3 sets of square holes...two in each of the front jaw, the rear jaw and the under-bench support.



As for alignment goes if you could drill each set of 3 hole at the same time would help. Like put the center Screw in and use it to clamp the assembly together then drill a pilot hole all the way thru the 3 pieces on each guide position, then remove and drill out the larger hole for the bar.
Herb


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

We had our grand-daughter visiting from out of town for the last several days and my wife is scheduled for cataract surgery later this week so I won't be able to get back to the side vise project for a while.

I've pretty much decided to go with round hardwood anti-racking bars instead of square. It'll be much easier to perfectly align the holes in the jaws. The final configuration will be much more like a traditional cabinetmakers side vise with center screw and two outboard bars rather than a Nicholson style but it'll be much easier to build and about as stable. Stay tuned.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'm beginning to acquire the materials to build the side vise. I've been thinking about this part of the project from the beginning and I'd really like to make a vise that's not complicated, economical, made of readily-available materials and will be rugged enough to do the job. I've already acquired the bench screw from Grizzly so that part is chiseled in stone. There is also the possibility of cutting an Acme-thread hardwood dowel for the screw if someone would want to try that. The rest of it, however, has been the subject of much thought, many revisions, redesigns, etc.

But now I've pretty much settled on Doug fir for the jaws with hardwood faces. The vise framing will be integrated into the bench frame and will also be Doug fir. There will be a steel plate on the front that will perform two functions: 1) Hold the adjustable jaw square with the rear jaw, and 2) capture the bench screw. The guide rods are plainly going to be an experiment and may have to be redesigned somewhere downstream.

I intend to make them out of 3/4" hardwood dowels that ride inside sections of 1" Schedule 40 PVC pipe. The PVC has an inside diameter of just over 3/4" so that seems OK. The outside diameter of the PVC is just a hair under 1-1/16" so I will have to acquire a 1-1/6 (27mm) Forstner bit (if I can find one) or a 27mm hole saw (which are available for about $6-8). There will have to be sufficient framing to prevent the guide rods from racking and/or binding...I hope.

It'll be interesting...wish me luck. I'll get started on it shortly and I'll post progress pics.

ADDED: I should make it clear that what I'm trying to accomplish is design and build a cheap, usable vise that someone of modest woodworking skill can copy with readily-available materials. For those of us with relatively modest means, dropping about $150 on the materials for the basic bench is tough enough without having to pony up a similar amount for a side vise. I already made a cheap Moxon-style end vise out of a couple pipe clamps and it works very well. If you missed that, here is a  link.


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## CharlesWebster (Nov 24, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Have you considered making a template and routing them with a plunge router? Either drilling the hole like you are then routing them square.
> Another consideration is to take a rasp and make a round tenon on the end of your square guide piece.
> Herb


I have never seen square corners cut with a router. How do you do that?


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I found a 27mm Forstner bit at Woodcraft for $10.00...I'll get started on the vise as soon as it arrives. I prefer a Forstner bit to a spade bit...it cuts much cleaner and more precise.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Got started on the side vise today...began by boring the holes in the front and rear jaws and the rear support. Pictures below. The jaws and support are Doug fir, the outside of the guide rods are 1" Sched 40 PVC and the inside guide rods are hardwood dowel. We'll see how this works.

You may notice what look like square holes in the rear jaw. That was the initial design but I changed it to make it easier to build...and easier for anyone to replicate. The initial holes were square and 7/8". The current holes for the guide rods are 27mm (1 1/6") and the PVC fits very nicely. The hole for the bench screw is 1", the actual diameter of the bench screw.

The jaws were bored by carefully measuring the first one and then double-sided taping the other two...one at a time...to it and using the first holes as guides. It came out nearly perfect...I will need to do a TINY but of sanding on one of the holes.

The finished vise will have hardwood jaw faces. I haven't yet determined what species...I'm leaning toward maple or beech but I'll have to see what the comparative costs are.

I'm hoping this will serve as an example at the kind of work that is possible in a small, modestly-equipped shop with mostly older, low-cost machinery and tools.

Here are the pics:


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I've been waiting for someone to point out my error but either 1) nobody noticed, or 2) nobody wanted to point it out...but I will:

The front ends of the guide rods should be firmly attached to the front jaw. Just as soon as I finished boring the holes in the front jaw I mentally kicked myself. The error, however, is easily fixed. I have some two-part epoxy left over from another project so I will cut two 1 1/2" sections of the PVC and epoxy them into the jaw, along with epoxying the inner guide rods into the short sections of PVC. I'll set the jaws and rear support up as you see them in one of the pictures until the epoxy dries and everything will be good to go.

I don't mind making mistakes. That just helps me learn how to correct them.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Got a little farther on the side vise...notched the top and edging so the vise would be flush with the top and bored the holes in the skirt. Chamfered the front jaw and dry-fitted the parts. Still need to acquire a steel front plate to capture the bench screw and distribute the force evenly to all parts of the jaw. Here I'm thinking of a readily-available 3 1/2" fender washer with a 3/4" hole. I'll cut it in half, mortise it into the front jaw (it's 1/4" thick) and drill holes for screws. And I still need to cut the PVC and epoxy the guide rods into the front jaw. It's coming along...here's a couple pics to show progress. In the first pic the vise is not assembled correctly but I wanted to show the perspective of the bench with both vises visible.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Today's work is not visible so no pictures. Fitted and refined the under-bench support for the guide rods in preparation for epoxying the outer guides into the rear jaw and under-bench support, and epoxying the inner guides into the jaw. The work was tedious and took about three hours. There was a lot of fine tuning and tweaking. I did install the threaded flange for the bench screw in its final location but have not fastened it to the support yet. I took the opportunity to clamp a small board in the vise. Even without the steel front plate it holds TIGHT. I didn't want to tighten it too much and damage the jaw but that brief test was very encouraging. The next increment will have to wait until I have acquired the front plate (a 3 1/2" fender washer, 1/4" thick with a 3/4" hole). I'll cut it in half and drill and countersink screw holes. Then I'll mortise the front plate into the jaw, install the bench screw and do the epoxying. That should finish it off except for the hardwood jaw faces. Pics to follow where feasible.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

sfchuck said:


> .................I should make it clear that what I'm trying to accomplish is design and build a cheap, usable vise that someone of modest woodworking skill can copy with readily-available materials............


Well I for one am enjoying the build of this vise. I like making things for my workshop, rather than buying them and if it works then it doesn't matter how cheap it was to make. Keep the dialogue, description and photos coming please Chuck, I only have a metalworkers vise ATM so this would be great.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I'd be delighted to do that.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

sfchuck said:


> ..........The front ends of the guide rods should be firmly attached to the front jaw. Just as soon as I finished boring the holes in the front jaw I mentally kicked myself............


So the wooden dowel guide rods are permanently fixed to to front part of the vise? And the upvc pipe is permanently fixed between the rear 2 blocks as guides for the moving guide rods?

Which is where your issue came from, the holes bored in the front vise part were too large?


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

vindaloo said:


> ...the holes bored in the front vise part were too large?


Exactly. The inner guide bars are 3/4" hardwood and should be affixed to the front jaw. The outer bars are affixed to the rear jaw and the under-bench framing and are 1" PVC pipe in which the inner bars glide. One of the pictures in an earlier post shows the relationship between the inner and outer bars. 

What it does NOT show properly is the permanent attachment of the inner bars to the front jaw. I will have to cut two 1 1/2" sections of PVC and epoxy them into the front jaw. Then I'll epoxy the ends of the hardwood dowels inside the short sections of PVC.

I'll post detailed pics when it's done.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I really didn't intend to do anything on the vise today but found myself getting out tools, etc., so the die was cast. What I did was relatively minor but now the vise looks pretty much like it will when fully complete. One pic shows pretty much how the face of the jaw will look when I epoxy the dowels and PVC sleeves into it. Another shows how the vise will look with the jaws open and the relationship between the inner and outer guide rods. The final pic shows the under-bench framing and how the bench screw and PVC outer guide rods are oriented. The sharp-eyed will likely see a broken shim that I will have to replace. It was intended to fill a gap between the rear support for the guide rods and the bench frame. In a flash of idiocy I tried a shortcut and made it out of slice of end-grain from a 2X4. I'll redo it out of long-grain stock and it won't fail again.

The excitement of the day was when I experienced a kick-back on the miter saw. I don't know for sure what happened but instantly the blade destroyed the workpiece I was cutting (maybe a knot?) and jammed itself against the aluminum housing, wedging the blade to the housing by one of the damper slots. It totally destroyed (bent) a $60.00 Freud Diablo blade that was not very old.

I got whacked on one knuckle but no cuts, no breaks, no permanent damage. It is a little sore. That's the first time in years I've had a major malfunction of a machine.

Here are the pictures:


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Sounds painful Chuck, be careful out there, it's a dangerous place.

Vise looks great in situ.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

I doubt there will be any more posts or pictures on the topic(s) of my vintage plane, the workbench and/or the vises.

The plane works as well as...no, actually better than...I would have expected for $15.00, the workbench came out as well as I expected and will be used by me probably for the rest of my life, the Moxon-style end vise (aside from my error of not mounting it flush with the benchtop) works as expected and the side vise actually came out better than I thought it would.

Doing some rough engineering calculations, the inner guide rods appear to be more rugged than any bending/breaking moment that could be developed within the constraints of the outer guides and there seems to be little to no possibility of developing sufficient shear force to snap them off.

The bench and both vises look pretty much as they will look after I'm completely finished. The only remaining tasks are to epoxy the inner and outer guide rods into their finished locations, acquire and mount the plate on the front jaw, and to face the jaws of both vises with hardwood, all of which have been previously described.

I hope this has been an interesting and useful series.

Oh, and I still haven't had the heart to check the miter saw for damage to anything other than the aluminum housing. But it's an ancient machine and I've been wanting a slider anyhow.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Great stuff Chuck. All logged for my workbench build.... when I have the room, and have a new roof put on the workshop.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

vindaloo said:


> Great stuff Chuck. All logged for my workbench build.... when I have the room, and have a new roof put on the workshop.


One thing to be cognizant of...be sure the bench frame is ABSOLUTELY SQUARE when assembling it. Mine was slightly out of square and I did not realize it. While I measured the diagonals, etc., I failed to rigidly clamp the frame to a known square while driving the screws. That necessitated making on-the-fly adjustments to the vise framing, e.g., I had to trim about 5/16" off one end of the under-bench support because the holes for the guide rods did not align. That's where my poorly-designed shim figured into the project...the one I had to replace.

I wish you well with your shop upgrades and your bench build.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Just a couple of questions, 1) how have you fixed the blocks to the underside of your bench? I see no screws through the top, nor underneath. 2) what locks the moving block to the bench screw to make it move out? I see the bench screw pushes it towards the bench.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

Look back at the picture of the underside of the bench. I'll refer to various locations on the pic. The fixed jaw (that you see in the upper right corner) is fastened to the bench skirt with two #10 2" screws through the jaw and into the skirt. The rear support is fastened between the side skirt (top of the pic) and the cross-member (bottom of the pic) with two each #10 2" screws through the skirt into the end of the rear support, and through the cross-member into the other end of the rear support (where the broken shim is seen).

The threaded flange of the bench screw is fastened to the inside surface of the bench skirt with #10 2" screws, the heads of which you can see in the pic. That's what references the position of the movable jaw.

What is missing is the front plate, which will be split in half and have a centered 3/4" hole that will capture the bench screw in the 1/4" groove (visible in the picture below) just behind the handle. That will pull the movable jaw out and the other side, as you observed, will push it in.

The 1/4" thick front plate may be inlaid into the front jaw (if I get ambitious -- otherwise it'll be surface-mounted) and there will be a 1/8" recess just behind the plate to accommodate the 1 1/4" diameter flange on the bench screw behind the plate.

The bench screw was obtained from Grizzly for $33.00 plus shipping. There are other options, including an Acme-threaded hardwood dowel, examples of which can be found on the Internet.

Hope that clears it up and I apologize for not making it more clear.

And I'm vacillating between a 3 1/2" round plate (made of a 1/4" thick fender washer) or a 6" long by 3" high plate made of 4 gauge steel...IF I can find a machine shop that will do such a small job.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Ah, got it. Thanks Chuck, it's all clear now.


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

The final analysis of this project is:

A few days ago I was on the catalog pages of Grizzly's web site and had occasion to look at their offering of vises...of which there are pages and pages. I found a woodworking vise frame (H7788) to which one adds his own wooden jaws for $57.95. Had I learned earlier of the availability of this vise frame it would have saved me a lot of time and a considerable sum of money.

Do I regret designing and building my own vise? No. Even though I did not achieve my purpose of designing a vise that anyone could replicate inexpensively, there is a satisfaction derived from designing and executing something that works as intended regardless of the effort and cost involved. But I could have used the extra cash for....

(Added some time later) Just as a final, final thought (the basis of which will be kept private), this was never a scam or money-making scheme. There were never going to be any plans for sale or kits to replicate this vise. It was strictly and honestly as posted.

With that, I'm outta here.


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