# Fabricating Plastic HDPE



## Wayne Turner (Jan 29, 2014)

I recently starting using a router to v groove hdpe sheets so I can bend 90 degree returns. 90 degree bit I used would not penetrate deep enough with out leaving a vetical shoulder i had to grind off. material was 15/32 this and i need to go 95% of the way through. Any thoughts or is there a longer v bit that will cut that deep and not leave a vertical shoulder at wide part of cut?
Thanks
Wayne


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hi Wayne, glad to see you join our community


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

If your router accepts bits with 1/2" shanks there is no problem getting a V bit that will cut through 1" material thickness.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

*Vee cutting bits*

Try Router bits, Saw blades, CNC Router Bits, Shaper Cutters & More, they carry a large selection of Amana bits for this purpose.

I cut a lot of HDPE on my CNC and use many of the bits they sell.

Their # 888-699-3939. Free shipping on orders over $35. Located in Long Island, NY.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Wayne, Various polyethylenes are something my company uses literally train car loads of every month. We _were_ the largest consumer of post-industrial HDPE regrind in the country (USA) - for about 5 years, and we enjoyed fantastic prices as a result of our gigantic volume needs. We also use even larger volumes of virgin material, but many use more virgin material than we could ever hope to need. I have a polymer chemist on my team as a consultant. He and I have worked together for over 20 years. He and I and two others in my group hold over 60 - US Patents. I am telling you this so you will understand that my experience in this field dates-back to 1989.

Mike has answered your question perfectly, and yes - that can be done quite easily, but depending on what you're doing with the joint may become the ultimate deciding factor.
There are companies that do what is called "plastic welding" - it is an amazingly simple process - and very well may meet your needs perfectly.

Gaining experience in fields as diverse as polymer manufacturing and uses of the derived products is like learning to walk on marbles! Eventually - everyone falls on their face!
One thing I have observed is that there are a lot of people / companies that CLAIM to know how to properly weld plastics. A huge percentage of them use premanufactured plastic welding rods - this has a batting average of less than .250. 

Aside from all of the sales hype you may get bombarded with, I will let-you-in on what I (and my coworkers, employees and partners) believe: The best plastic welders do not use welding rod! What they do is to take pieces of the exact same plastic that is to be welded and "pulverize the crap out of it" making a big mess of "plastic sawdust, itty-bitty pieces, etc.". They then make the V-groove, fold and weld. Scraps from said V-grooving are collected and reused in future welding efforts.

Collectively, the group I am in is a very large entity - so everybody tries hard to make their dog and pony shows impressive to me and the other decision makers. When I (or my partners) go to make an initial visit with prospective vendors of products or services, they always want to know what kind of volume we will need. We ALWAYS tell them we only want to start with very small initial quantities. This may sound silly - because most prospective customers come to my sales reps with claims of gigantic future volumes. Often the sales people (especially the newbies) are very excited, but rarely are those big claims actually true.

We have the potential to be a very big customer for many vendors or service providers, but here's what I have observed over many years and thousands of transactions: If you go somewhere and answer the "what kind of volume" question with what you perceive the potential to be (some people even exaggerate their answer), almost anyone will gladly make you a business proposal. But in reality, here's what happens: with a promise of a tiny volume - you should know very quickly if that company or individual is already geared-up to do the work and if they are and have someone on-staff with experience in that skill, they can handle a small job. Many times, someone will say, "We don't take-on small projects" - what I am hearing is: "We are not geared-up for that - but for enough volume (cash flow) - we are willing to use you as our guinea pig".

Here's a true, unaltered situation that just happened in November. I will not identify the company that I feel now has "egg on their face" because I am a nice guy...
My main machinist had a situation where he needed an unusual product for a unique transmission in one of my inventions that is in late developmental stages. We have contacted all of our sources - many of these have proven over-the-years to be very helpful. We have favorite suppliers for various products and we use "go-to-people" at most of these companies when we need something that we cannot locate online or in their catalogs. We needed a coupling / bearing / sleeve with exterior "legs" to bond within a high-tech polymeric matrix in a casting. As far as we can tell, there is no known source for the part we will need - so we will need to make it, or commission someone to provide it for us. My machinist can "make anything" when necessary, but we always use standard items when we can find them.

I remembered meeting a guy who owns a company that makes powdered metal parts. I've used powdered metal parts, but never from this vendor - but I gave him a call, which morphed into emails, which evolved into me working with his "sales manager". The sales manager requested drawings - which I provided in several formats that he could use. I provided material specs (which was nothing terribly difficult). I asked if he could handle making the part and his response was *"Certainly - we do this every day for many customers".* He asked the "volume question" to which I replied "very small initially and if testing proves the product will suit our needs - volume could increase considerably". I suggested he send me a sample - even a _piece_ of a "dud" similar part. I said I would be happy to prepay for the sample, shipping, etc. His (almost reflexive) answer was: "Actually we have never made small parts with threads or "legs". Your part will weigh just a few ounces - all of our other parts weigh hundreds of pounds, and we are not interested due to your small quantity." Very soon the conversation ended - I phoned my machinist and said, "Take [that company] off your list of prospective suppliers - we will not be doing business with them".

What happened? *"Certainly - we do this every day for many customers".* changed to "Actually we have never made small parts with threads or "legs". Your part will weigh just a few ounces - all of our other parts weigh hundreds of pounds, and we are not interested due to your small quantity." *What Otis heard:* We are only intererested in huge quantities, we will purchase (with your money) the tooling necessary to perform your service (that we have never done before) and we are willing to pretend that we do this type of thing regularly to convince you to let us use you as a guinea pig.

We all must watch out for people with crazy claims!

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Carlswoodturning (Mar 6, 2013)

Otis, I enjoyed reading your story, I've been on both sides of the sales pitch for 40+ years, glad to say I never had to misrepresent my company as the guy I your example.


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## Wayne Turner (Jan 29, 2014)

Otis,
Thank you for your reply and as for the welding I am familiar with the process. I am interested to learn more about salvaging the shavings and how to introduce them back into the process. Currently I am using 4mm and 5mm rod for attaching wall sleeves to the manhole liner that i fabricate from sheet goods. 

The router creates a nice pile of like shavings as does the table saw when I cut the sheets I can save this but need to know how to weld with it. I have several Liester Hot gas welders, 3 extruders 2-Dohle and 1 HSK and recently bought a sheet butt welder for my Liner business. I fabricate HDPE liners for the waste-water business and am always looking for ways to improve my offerings and make a better product. Would love to speak with you some time when it is convenient. I have three things on my radar that I think can be improved and have my current attention.


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## Wayne Turner (Jan 29, 2014)

Thanks Mike I found some on Amazon over the weekend 1" wide and I do have a 1/2" collet on my router I will secure one and give it a go...thanks again Wayne


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Wayne, None of my _current_ plastic projects are being made with sheet plastic now - as that was for prototyping to develop the products that we are now using injection molded HDPE SF 45R. I am still friends with the owner (Gary Hopkins) and you can bet all of your money that whenever I need fabricated sheet plastic parts - he is the man I will go to.

Here is his contact information:
Gary Hopkins (owner)
Plastek Werks
196 Industrial Boulevard
Cleveland, Georgia (GA) 30528
(706)348-8286
Plastek Werks - The Plastic Welding Experts

You are welcome to call me on my cell phone, but first send me a text message telling me the number you will be calling from. This enables me to save your number, because I haven't the time to waste with callers that I do not recognize. If we are speaking while I am in my office you will be able to call me toll-free on my land line, but I will be "on the road" quite a bit this week and next. I look forward to speaking with and helping you.

Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia (cell phone 770-855-5482)


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