# My latest sign (*******)



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

My latest sign had some scrolling work, some freehand lettering, and some borders done on the router table. A little bit of everything. I have a few more coats of clear and it's done. Don't zoom too much, you'll see all the black that bled from letter to letter. :frown: Had a lot of trouble with this sign, besides the bleeding paint. First go round, I wanted all the letters to form a circle around the *******. But I would have had to make the ******* bigger, and the sunk in area bigger, and I had already did that Couldn't make the letters any smaller, they were a challenge as small as they were, already. So I had to break up the second line, and make a third line. Still looks, ok, I think, just not what I wanted.


----------



## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Actually Lee, I like the line split, and as for the ink bleed, I usually get that if the wood is too dry, or if when I sanded it before the ink, I didn't use a high enough grade of sandpaper. (If the wood is smooth, less tendency to bleed). Amazing work. Wtg!


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Need help! I've posted a pic on my Facebook page, and I've already have someone asking if it's for sale. Didn't plan on selling it, so soon, but hey, the extra money (to buy more wood) would come in handy!! But I don't have the foggiest idea what to charge. Don't ask me how long it took too make, I'd have to sell it for 1000 dollars if I charged by the hour! LOL Any ideas?? Don't want to scare the man off, but don't want to screw myself, either!!


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Actually Lee, I like the line split, and as for the ink bleed, I usually get that if the wood is too dry, or if when I sanded it before the ink, I didn't use a high enough grade of sandpaper. (If the wood is smooth, less tendency to bleed). Amazing work. Wtg!


Thanks Barb! I thought I had sanded the snot out of it! LOL Because on my second to last sign "Gone Fishing", it bled too, so I thought I'd I sand it more, it wouldn't bleed. But it did! Going to try using the conditioner you mentioned in an earlier post.


----------



## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

N'awlins77 said:


> Need help! I've posted a pic on my Facebook page, and I've already have someone asking if it's for sale. Didn't plan on selling it, so soon, but hey, the extra money (to buy more wood) would come in handy!! But I don't have the foggiest idea what to charge. Don't ask me how long it took too make, I'd have to sell it for 1000 dollars if I charged by the hour! LOL Any ideas?? Don't want to scare the man off, but don't want to screw myself, either!!


Ok- with me, I start at $45 with one simple grahic depending on the design and size of the sign. I would call that graphic a detailed one, and add no less than $25 on to the price of the sign. So this is where I ask what size it is. The one I did for my brother in-law would have been $50.


----------



## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Lee, a conditioner would likely work, after the routing, to control the bleeding. Maybe, a light coat of whatever top coat you'll use, before the ink?

I agree with Barb on the price. Love that sign.


----------



## Bushwhacker (Jun 16, 2009)

Just for information. I saw a sign the other day that I thought was cute. It said" Everytime I open my mouth, my mother comes out". Just thought it was maybe it was something that you might use.
David


----------



## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I visited the **** dog cemetery in Alabama once (it is way back in the woods) and was surprised at the ornate tombstones there. Folks must think highly or their **** dogs. If you didn't know what was there you would think it was for humans.


----------



## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

No less than $50 Lee. Great work!


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Gene Howe said:


> Lee, a conditioner would likely work, after the routing, to control the bleeding. Maybe, a light coat of whatever top coat you'll use, before the ink?


Gene, I tried that before I painted the boarder. Sprayed a light coat of clear coat, and let it dry over night. Then the next day, I painted the black border. Let it dry, and the next night, after sanding some of the black off the sides, I went to blow the dust off, and one corner of the black paint started peeling off. Luckily on the one corner did that. But I'll be afraid to do that again. Maybe the conditioner, wont do that, I hope! I was also thinking about about staining the next one, and see what that does, to stop the bleeding.


----------



## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

N'awlins77 said:


> Gene, I tried that before I painted the boarder. Sprayed a light coat of clear coat, and let it dry over night. Then the next day, I painted the black border. Let it dry, and the next night, after sanding some of the black off the sides, I went to blow the dust off, and one corner of the black paint started peeling off. Luckily on the one corner did that. But I'll be afraid to do that again. Maybe the conditioner, wont do that, I hope! I was also thinking about about staining the next one, and see what that does, to stop the bleeding.


The conditioner should do the trick for you Lee. I have quite a few cedar dog ear fence pieces that I use for welcome signs, that have been out in my shed all winter. I had Ken sand them smooth for transfer of patterns, and had him put a good coat of conditioner on them before I even started working tonight. (I have 8 signs to cut tonight. Keep your fingers crossed I can get them done lol )


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Well, hand delivered my "********" sign, this morning. Sold it for $75.!! My first buck earned with my hobby!! Going buy some wood to make a 3 in 1 high chair, rocking horse and desk, for my wives niece.


----------



## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Congrats on your first sign sale, Lee! :sold:


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

congratulations Lee...


----------



## BobbyLee (Jan 25, 2016)

Lee nice sign & congrats on the sale. What are you using for your black? Spray Black Paint, Acrylic, Marsh Ink, Ect? I use either Acrylic or Rustoleum 2X Black Primer on my signs. Also use a sanding sealer beforehand. You can use a brush on or spray sanding sealer. You can also use a clear spray lacquer to prevent bleeding which is what I put on my last sign. Which was done on 2' X 2' Pine laminated edge glued panel board from home depot. Which is notorious for bleeding. I sprayed a good coat of DEF clear lacquer. Not to then but not to heavy either. Then used Rustoleum 2X Black Primer. Keep the primer in the fridge before using to help cut down on over spraying because it tends to want to spray heavy. you need a light touch with it. You can also use Black Acrylic. Acrylics will not bleed as bad as other paints. Hope this helped you out some. If you need anything else you can send me a friend request on Facebook under Bobby Lee Russell. I'm usually logged in all the time there.


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks Oliver, Stick and BobbyLee!

BobbyLee, I use Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel, And then the Rustoleum Gloss Clear Lacquer spray. When I did the borders, on my ******* sign, I sprayed the clear lacquer first, to prevent bleeding around the boarders, as it did on the letters. And after I sanded the top again, cleaning the excess from around the border (the next day, after it dried, of course), and went to blow the dust off, I blew off part of my painted boarder. Which is what I was afraid of. The paint didn't stick to the clear lacquer. It didn't bleed, but the paint also didn't stick, where I wanted it to!! So what is a sanding sealer? Is that anything like what Barbara recommended, using a conditioner??

Will a flat black bleed less, maybe?


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

BobbyLee, you do your signs free handed, right? So you must do the outlines of your lettering using a small bit first, then clean out the middle? I'm just noticing all your sharp corners on your letters, and what looks like squared off notches, in the middle of your letters. And your lettering looks so straight! Awesome looking!! I have the most trouble on my "O"'s. Can't keep a steady circle!!


----------



## BobbyLee (Jan 25, 2016)

N'awlins77 said:


> BobbyLee, you do your signs free handed, right? So you must do the outlines of your lettering using a small bit first, then clean out the middle? I'm just noticing all your sharp corners on your letters, and what looks like squared off notches, in the middle of your letters. And your lettering looks so straight! Awesome looking!! I have the most trouble on my "O"'s. Can't keep a steady circle!!


Yes Lee all my signs are done Free hand. I just take my time and try not to rush anything on my signs or get to complacent. The 1st time you do is where the 1st mistake will come from. That whole sign was done with 2 straight bits. A 1/8th & 1/16th. Lettering on a lot of my other signs was usually done with a profile or SC-50 line carving bit. I'm still learning as well and adapting new techniques on different pieces. Thanks for the compliments. If you get the chance come swing by; Hand Routed Signs 4 Newbies on Facebook. You'll find a lot of great lookin' signs on there as well as a lot of valuable info that we all share with one another. That group has really enabled me to step things up a notch in my sign making.


----------



## BobbyLee (Jan 25, 2016)

N'awlins77 said:


> Thanks Oliver, Stick and BobbyLee!
> 
> BobbyLee, I use Rustoleum Gloss Protective Enamel, And then the Rustoleum Gloss Clear Lacquer spray. When I did the borders, on my ******* sign, I sprayed the clear lacquer first, to prevent bleeding around the boarders, as it did on the letters. And after I sanded the top again, cleaning the excess from around the border (the next day, after it dried, of course), and went to blow the dust off, I blew off part of my painted boarder. Which is what I was afraid of. The paint didn't stick to the clear lacquer. It didn't bleed, but the paint also didn't stick, where I wanted it to!! So what is a sanding sealer? Is that anything like what Barbara recommended, using a conditioner??
> 
> Will a flat black bleed less, maybe?


Lee; This is a spray on sanding sealer. Sanding sealer will help seal the wood grain and prevent bleeding. I don't recommend using any standard spray paint. As the paint will almost certainly bleed. Use instead a a primer (Rusto-leum) Or Marsh Spray Ink. Or hand brush Acrylics on. As I mentioned Pine is really susceptible to bleeding. Cedar not so much. I rarely use sanding sealer on my cedar signs. In fact out of all my cedar signs I only had one that bled on me and that was the rare one that I used sanding sealer on. But the bleeding was more so to the fact that I accidently over sprayed my primer due to the hot weather expanding the gases in the can causing it to spray out faster and heavier. It's best to keep the primer in the fridge before use with the hotter temps. In fact the " R Way Tack " Sign I used Deft Clear Lacquer on it because I was in a hurry that day at the hardware store and grabbed it by mistake. As The DEFT Clear Lacquer and DEFT Sanding Sealer Cans look identical. But as you can see; No bleeding on that Pine.


----------



## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

what spray adhesive works on the sealed wood?


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

I'll have to look for some of that Sanding Sealer Bobby!! I checked online at both Lowes and Homedepot, but only could find Minwax brand, and it says it takes an hour to dry. Does that sound about right?


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

ACE carries the Deft rattle cans.

HJ


----------



## BobbyLee (Jan 25, 2016)

paduke said:


> what spray adhesive works on the sealed wood?


3M 77 and Loctite work well in my opinion. I've pretty much stopped spraying adhesive for my layouts and do all my layouts with carbon paper any more. Takes a little longer to lay out, but I feel it is well worth it in the end. (Additional notes) To remove adhesive and rest of paper after routing. Use a little bit of mineral spirits on a rag and layout will peel right off and you can wipe off any residual adhesive as well. So it wont smear and gum up as you are sanding.


----------



## BobbyLee (Jan 25, 2016)

N'awlins77 said:


> I'll have to look for some of that Sanding Sealer Bobby!! I checked online at both Lowes and Homedepot, but only could find Minwax brand, and it says it takes an hour to dry. Does that sound about right?


Yes Lee, sounds about right. Thomas Do It Center carries the DEFT. That's where I got mine from. They also carry the Zinsser Brand Sanding Sealer in a spray as well.


----------



## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Lived in LA for about six years. Haven't been to a crawfish boil in 28 years. Nice sign!


----------



## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

+1 on Marsh Spray Ink and it drys real fast. Only downside is it come in limited colors.

I sand to 320 grit and use rattle can Lacquer or Shellac before cutting.

To save some sanding I put shelf liner on the Lacquer / Shellac before routing. 

Steve.


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Knothead47 said:


> Lived in LA for about six years. Haven't been to a crawfish boil in 28 years. Nice sign!


Thanks John! Wow, that's a long time to do with out dem crawdads!! :wink: What part of La you lived?


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

SteveMI said:


> +1 on Marsh Spray Ink and it drys real fast. Only downside is it come in limited colors.
> 
> I sand to 320 grit and use rattle can Lacquer or Shellac before cutting.
> 
> ...


Steve, I think you are on to something!! Spray the lacquer BEFORE cutting out the letters and borders!! I don't understand your last sentence, though?? Shelf liner on the Lacquer?? 

And I did try using the Marsh spray ink, but I didn't find it any easier to sand. But, does it not bleed, as bad as regular paint?


----------



## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

N'awlins77 said:


> Steve, I think you are on to something!! Spray the lacquer BEFORE cutting out the letters and borders!! I don't understand your last sentence, though?? Shelf liner on the Lacquer??
> 
> And I did try using the Marsh spray ink, but I didn't find it any easier to sand. But, does it not bleed, as bad as regular paint?


Actually on bare wood the Marsh is harder to sand off. It doesn't bleed as much since it drys so fast and you don't have to use as much. The Marsh is made for industrial painting of signs with stencils for warnings and safety information, usually right on the equipment, ladders, tables...

The shelf liner is to keep the paint off most of the sign. When you peel it off the wood is mostly clean of paint. Lacquer first is necessary since the tape won't stick that well to bare wood. It will still pull up around smaller areas like the inside sections of letters "A", "R" and the like. Actually I am now using the "Application Tape" that is for vinyl signs. It sticks better and pulls up less.
https://www.signwarehouse.com/blog/beginners-guide-to-application-tape-for-103012/
I took a class for vinyl cutter, which is where I found out about it. They seem pricey at first ~$50, but it is a 100 yard roll. I'm using the paper type instead of clear. Bought mine local at Wensco.

One more tip, whether you use lacquer, liner or tape, get a cabinet scraper to take the paint build up off before sand paper.
Buy Cabinet Scraper, 5" Long, .60 mm Thick at Woodcraft.com and a holder is good too Http://www.woodcraft.com/product/144521/wooden-scraper-holder.aspx

Steve.


----------



## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Ohh Ok, now I get the shelf liner idea!! Great ideas I'm sure to try all of them!! Thanks Steve!!


----------

