# Zero Clearance insert questions.



## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

I was wanting to purchase a three new zero clearance inserts for my Ridgid TS3650 Table Saw but whoa, $32.95 each. I could buy them but at that cost I might just try to make my own.

Now to the questions, for those of you that make or have made their own what material do you use? And what are you using for set screws?

Bryan


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

bryansong said:


> I was wanting to purchase a three new zero clearance inserts for my Ridgid TS3650 Table Saw but whoa, $32.95 each. I could buy them but at that cost I might just try to make my own.
> 
> Now to the questions, for those of you that make or have made their own what material do you use? And what are you using for set screws?
> 
> Bryan


Are the set screws in the insert or the table? You can get any size set screws at the big box stores.

I make mine out of BB plywood. Use one of your manufactured inserts for a template. Cut the plywood a little over sized and use the router with a pattern bit and the bearing riding on the old insert for a guide. Make up a half dozen and strore them for future use.

Herb


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Hi Herb,

The set screws are in the insert. I do have some BB now as I'm working on a cross cut sled. I have to see if I have any pieces left.

Thank you,

Bryan


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Baltic birch and pan head machine screws here...

are your screws levelers or hold down???


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

I use mdf, and tapped through holes in each corner. I dripped a few drops of CA onto the threads to strengthen them (not sure if necessary, but can't hurt), and chased the threads after CA set. It's easy to make the insert flush by using an Allen wrench to adjust the set screws through the tapped holes from the top. On my saw (a C'man 22116) the set screws sit on flanges, and a couple of countersunk screws hold the insert down. Can't say how that translates to the Ridgid leveling/fastening design, but it works great for me.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

phenolic or UHMW/HDMW works really well too...
go to the dollar store and get several plastic cutting boards and use that...
generally, plastic cutting boards are phenolic or UHMW/HDMW...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> phenolic or UHMW/HDMW works really well too...
> go to the dollar store and get several plastic cutting boards and use that...
> generally, plastic cutting boards are phenolic or UHMW/HDMW...


Those dollar Stores are going to run out of cutting boards the way they are getting bought up HAHAHAHAHA

Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I made mine exactly the same as John Howe. MDF takes threads well enough even without the glue. I used set screws as long as possible just for good measure.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> Baltic birch and pan head machine screws here...
> 
> are your screws levelers or hold down???



The original has 4 allen head set screws and I phillips screw at the end to hold it in. I have to take out the phillips screw to remove the insert.

And what's the UHMW/HDMW? You've mention that before.
I did buy a large white plastic cutting board form Sam's Club that I've cut several runners to use on my cross cut sleds I'm currently working on. They slide real smooth but I don't know if they are the UHMW/HDMW material. 

are you putting the pan head screws in the underside?

Bryan


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I made mine exactly the same as John Howe. MDF takes threads well enough even without the glue. I used set screws as long as possible just for good measure.


I do have some 1/2" Mdf pieces but I'm a little concerned since my set screws are right at the edge of the insert. I can't remember how large the tabs of the saw that support the insert are, I might be able to bring the screws in a little bit away from the edge.

Bryan


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Those dollar Stores are going to run out of cutting boards the way they are getting bought up HAHAHAHAHA
> 
> Herb


so hit the Big Lots and Dollar Tree stores...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bryansong said:


> The original has 4 allen head set screws and I phillips screw at the end to hold it in. I have to take out the phillips screw to remove the insert.
> 
> And what's the UHMW/HDMW? You've mention that before.
> I did buy a large white plastic cutting board form Sam's Club that I've cut several runners to use on my cross cut sleds I'm currently working on. They slide real smooth but I don't know if they are the UHMW/HDMW material.
> ...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

mimic your screw set up...
mine are hold downs set in counter-bores...
the other saws have set screws...
UHMW takes set screws very well...


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Stick, I've still got a piece of this too.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

I used the same method as Herb. And I used pan-head screws on the bottom for leveling. I never though about tapping and using set screws... MUCH easier this way I think, instead of lifting ZCI and turning screw, repeat.... One other thing I did was tighten up the fit on mine. I found that what I made from the original had a sloppy fit. I wrapped masking tape around the outside until the fit was snug. Then made a new ZCI and it fits snug as well... no movement that way. 

You will probably find your blade will hit the underside of your ZCI and not allow it to sit properly. I cut a groove in mine on the router table. That way it sits down where it's supposed to and still give you adequate clearance for your blade.

And, lastly, the hold down screw at the back of the insert. Up to you here, but I don't use one in mine. Never had the insert move on me.


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

I made several but was never really satisfied with them, finally saw that MLCS
had them that would fit my old Craftsman even tho it was not listed. Bryon 
them have them for your saw for $16.95


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Instead of using set screws, use hot glue. Drip some hot glue on the tabs, let it start to set a few seconds then press the insert down flush. Once cooled, the hot glue will stick to the insert but come off the tabs.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Everend said:


> Instead of using set screws, use hot glue. Drip some hot glue on the tabs, let it start to set a few seconds then press the insert down flush. Once cooled, the hot glue will stick to the insert but come off the tabs.


And ANOTHER use for hot melt glue. Good idea Everend, would not have thought of this.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Everend said:


> Instead of using set screws, use hot glue. Drip some hot glue on the tabs, let it start to set a few seconds then press the insert down flush. Once cooled, the hot glue will stick to the insert but come off the tabs.


Now there's a capital idea. Like that one.

I see you used cross grain wood. Any trouble with bowing, or is it thin plywood?


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

it's 1/4" hardwood ply scrap I had laying around when I realized I needed a new one.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

The little divot on the end was because I was using a flush trim bit around the plate that came with the saw. That divot is where the stock plate was notched out for the kerf knife. At the time I said, "oops" but now I'm glad for the little hole. Makes it much easier to pull that plate out.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Everend said:


> The little divot on the end was because I was using a flush trim bit around the plate that came with the saw. That divot is where the stock plate was notched out for the kerf knife. At the time I said, "oops" but now I'm glad for the little hole. Makes it much easier to pull that plate out.


Thanks for that. I drilled a small hole at the front of my inserts, just big enough to get my finger in.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

The UHMW is a high molecular weight type of man made material (basically the same as a cutting board, that creamy white material). I've used it for years for inserts and parts for jigs & etc. Most woodworking supply stores sell it in bags of different sizes. Rockler hardware has it BUT it is cheaper to buy the cutting boards. It can be machined on regular woodworking tools and for the set screws just drill the set screw holes a little small and then use a tap to make the threads. Being heavy allows it to sit down well in the insert hole in most table saws. Many of the manufacturers of saw inserts use the product and you might find a company in your area that sells cutoffs. I found one in Greenville SC where I could buy pieces of a useful size for shop use. Google it on AMAZON to see what it looks like.

I'm getting old & forgetful : I found a supply in the cut off barrels at a local glass shop, cheapest way I've found to buy it. It's scrap to them and usually sold by the pound.


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

bryansong said:


> I do have some 1/2" Mdf pieces but I'm a little concerned since my set screws are right at the edge of the insert. I can't remember how large the tabs of the saw that support the insert are, I might be able to bring the screws in a little bit away from the edge.
> 
> Bryan


My set screws are ~5/16" from the edge- no problems. They aren't subject to a lot of stress- basically supporting the weight of the insert. Mine are mdf, rather than more "exotic" materials (Baltic birch, cutting board), because it's cheap, on hand, easily worked, smooth surfaced.

An insert is not fine furniture and not permanent- it's going to need replacement eventually as the zero clearance inevitably becomes greater than zero from use, so go with the cheapest and easiest fix. :smile:


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Knot working said:


> I made several but was never really satisfied with them, finally saw that MLCS
> had them that would fit my old Craftsman even tho it was not listed. Bryon
> them have them for your saw for $16.95


Thank you Larry, I just placed an order with them. That saves me a lot of time, work and money. 

Eventually I'll make some but for now this works better for me.


Thanks!

Bryan


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Garyk said:


> The UHMW is a high molecular weight type of man made material (basically the same as a cutting board, that creamy white material). I've used it for years for inserts and parts for jigs & etc. Most woodworking supply stores sell it in bags of different sizes. Rockler hardware has it BUT it is cheaper to buy the cutting boards. It can be machined on regular woodworking tools and for the set screws just drill the set screw holes a little small and then use a tap to make the threads. Being heavy allows it to sit down well in the insert hole in most table saws. Many of the manufacturers of saw inserts use the product and you might find a company in your area that sells cutoffs. I found one in Greenville SC where I could buy pieces of a useful size for shop use. Google it on AMAZON to see what it looks like.
> 
> I'm getting old & forgetful : I found a supply in the cut off barrels at a local glass shop, cheapest way I've found to buy it. It's scrap to them and usually sold by the pound.


That's good information Gary, I didn't know I could buy that at Amazon and I wouldn't have know what it was called. In fact, I bet I have trouble remembering what it's called the next time I need to buy some. Hopefully one day that will stick in my head.

Bryan


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I make all of mine. I use double sided tape to attach my original insert (upside down) to whatever material I want to make them from. I rough cut them out with the band saw and then use a flush trim bearing bit to trim off the excess material with the bearing riding on the original insert. I repeat these steps for as many inserts as I would like to make or have material for. Some times I use 1/2" Baltic Birch, sometimes UHMW material from cutting boards, and sometimes Corian, basically whatever I've got enough scrap of. When all the inserts that I'm making have been cut and trimmed to size I drill and tap holes for the leveling screws, and a finger hole in the front left. I try each new insert to be certain that it fits in the saw and sand the edges where necessary. I then install set screws in the leveling holes and put them in the saw cabinet.


When I need a new zero clearance insert I choose a blank one from the cabinet and I adjust the set screws to level it with the saw table and then finish the blade cut, splitter cut, etc. for whatever blade and operation that I'll need it for and I label the back of the insert for which blade that it was made for and any other pertinent information about it's use. Then I put it into use. When the operation is finished and that blade is removed from the saw, both the blade and the zero clearance insert are stored in the table saw storage cabinet. I keep a zero clearance insert for each blade that I have and for each bevel cut that I make an insert for and always match the blade and insert before using them again. Different blades have slightly different widths, so I always use the insert with the same blade that it was cut for. I have about 15 different pre-cut inserts
and always try to keep at least 4 blanks in stock. Inserts do wear out and need replacing sometimes.

Charley


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

When you put the set screws in drill all the way through and put the screws in from the top going down. Then you just keep turning them until that corner comes up flush with maybe a little fine tuning after all four have been run down. There really isn`t that much pressure on the insert most of the time. Most of the pressure is on the surrounding saw top so it doesn`t need to be super strong which allows for lots of material choices. 

The hot melt idea sounds like a good one too, just gob a bunch at each tab location and the set in place and I would lay something flat on it and the weight should push it down flush. This won`t be an option with the Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMW or sometimes written UHMWPE, they are both the same thing). The glue won`t stick to that cutting board material. Only a very few epoxies will.


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

I made mine from MDF and leveled it with hot glue, no set screws. You have to be quick as the glue cools quickly. I had some heavy steel that I laid across the insert to get it flush to the table. Once the glue cooled I can pop the insert out when needed with no problem as the glue did not bond tight to the cast iron tabs.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Everend said:


> Instead of using set screws, use hot glue. Drip some hot glue on the tabs, let it start to set a few seconds then press the insert down flush. Once cooled, the hot glue will stick to the insert but come off the tabs.



excellent idea...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charley L; Holy Hanna! Router Forums - View Single Post - Zero Clearance insert questions.

I don't have that much patience or organizational ambition. My hat's off to you, Sir. 
I think I have four on the go and two in waiting. 
I've been jigsawing mine out, using the metal original as a pattern, then cleaning them up to fit using the beltsander. Maybe 15min. each? 
The router system makes more sense.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Another thing I've heard of, but not tried yet, getting double duty from the insert. Put in one way, cut with blade.. maybe a standard width blade, then turn around and cut the other side thru with, say a thin-kerf blade. Anyone tried this? Can't remember where I heard it, but it sounds like it should work.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

How are you all cutting the slot for the riving knife? It clearly isn't as critical as the blade slot. I picked up a 3/8ths cutting board and some 3/8ths set screws, which are 1/4 x 20 thread. I will drill with an 11/32ths drill bit. Will the set screws self thread in the plastic, or whould I get a thread cutter? 

I noticed that the depth of the table to the mounting tabs is slightly more than 33/64ths, so about a quarter inch of set screw will be in the insert, which sounds good to me.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> How are you all cutting the slot for the riving knife? It clearly isn't as critical as the blade slot. I picked up a 3/8ths cutting board and some 3/8ths set screws, which are 1/4 x 20 thread. I will drill with an 11/32ths drill bit. Will the set screws self thread in the plastic, or whould I get a thread cutter?
> 
> I noticed that the depth of the table to the mounting tabs is slightly more than 33/64ths, so about a quarter inch of set screw will be in the insert, which sounds good to me.


Tom, I think if you file a sharp groove in the end of the set screw, it will act like a sheet metal screw. That might work. Or perhaps if you heated the screw...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*for open ended inserts...*

remove riving knife...
lower blade all the way...
install and flush up blank insert...
place the fence on top of the blank insert to hold it down...
turn on saw...
raise blade all the way...
make sure you don't hit the fence...
turn off the saw..
lower blade...
move fence out of the way..
remove new insert..
install old insert..
raise blade part way...
place newly slit insert on the blade...
bring fence up to the new insert...
remove new insert...
turn on the saw...
rip riving knife slot in new insert...

*closed end insert...*

start w/ the fence brought up to the insert.. 

mark cut line stop on insert...
place new insert on a partially raised blade w/ the back en of the slit just touching the blades teeth.....
(remember.. your old insert is in the saw)...
install horizontal and vertical feather boards or hold downs... 
lower the blade...
start saw...
raise blade till the blade touches the stop cut line..
lower blade and turn off saw..
remove both inserts...
install riving knife...
install new insert...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Tom, I think if you file a sharp groove in the end of the set screw, it will act like a sheet metal screw. That might work. Or perhaps if you heated the screw...


turn the screw into a type ''F'' screw...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> *for open ended inserts...*
> 
> remove riving knife...
> lower blade all the way...
> ...


Oh, is that all? :crying:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you want plan ''B'''???

the experienced have a handle...
it's the new guy we need to plan for...


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## waynecochran (Aug 2, 2011)

My two cents: I drill a hole at the rear end of the saw slot to improve dust collection(dust collector). Seems to help.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

waynecochran said:


> My two cents: I drill a hole at the rear end of the saw slot to improve dust collection(dust collector). Seems to help.


How big of a hole?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

comfortable finger size...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> comfortable finger size...


Which finger? Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

step back form this one too...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Bryan; the great thing about making your own is that _you_ get to play with the design.
A good starting point is the O.E.M. one that came with it. 
Some have some sort of nib/screw/lip at the back end to prevent the insert from lifting unexpectedly...good design feature that you might need/want to consider.
Just make one and try it; all your questions will be answered!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

waynecochran said:


> My two cents: I drill a hole at the rear end of the saw slot to improve dust collection(dust collector). Seems to help.


One of the reasons I tend not to use ZC inserts is the dust issue. That's a good idea Wayne. I've been noodling about a way to make a better DC compatible ZCI. The idea is that you really only need ZC where the cutting is happening so maybe only the first inch and a half needs to be ZC, the rest can be more open.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

BrianS said:


> Another thing I've heard of, but not tried yet, getting double duty from the insert. Put in one way, cut with blade.. maybe a standard width blade, then turn around and cut the other side thru with, say a thin-kerf blade. Anyone tried this? Can't remember where I heard it, but it sounds like it should work.


Brian,

I think I saw something about this on the YouTube Micro Jig installation video. That sure seems like a good idea.

Bryan


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

PhilBa said:


> One of the reasons I tend not to use ZC inserts is the dust issue. That's a good idea Wayne. I've been noodling about a way to make a better DC compatible ZCI. The idea is that you really only need ZC where the cutting is happening so maybe only the first inch and a half needs to be ZC, the rest can be more open.


I remember Jerry Bowen saying that he drilled some extra holes in his insert as per the suggestion of one of our other members (who I can`t remember) and the dust collection was greatly improved by it.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Tom, I think if you file a sharp groove in the end of the set screw, it will act like a sheet metal screw. That might work. Or perhaps if you heated the screw...


Set screws are hardened, going to be tough going doing that. Maybe doing that in a soft bolt prior to using setscrew might work.

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> Set screws are hardened, going to be tough going doing that. Maybe doing that in a soft bolt prior to using setscrew might work.
> 
> Herb


Then an angle grinder will do it, that is assuming you can grip it in a vise of some sort.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Then an angle grinder will do it, that is assuming you can grip it in a vise of some sort.


I'll let you try it first.

Herb


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> I'll let you try it first.
> 
> Herb


Gee, thanks.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks guys, for that slot in the set screw, I can use a Dremel diamond disk and hold it with a wood vise.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Why bother with customizing a screw when headless hex/Allen screws are so available and inexpensive?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

modify the screw if you haven't a tap and I don't believe socket head set screws come as self threaders...


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Excellent point.





PhilBa said:


> One of the reasons I tend not to use ZC inserts is the dust issue. That's a good idea Wayne. I've been noodling about a way to make a better DC compatible ZCI. The idea is that you really only need ZC where the cutting is happening so maybe only the first inch and a half needs to be ZC, the rest can be more open.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

All my inserts, except the original, are Corian, just because that's what I had. I, certainly, don't have moisture problems with it.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Dejure said:


> All my inserts, except the original, are Corian, just because that's what I had. I, certainly, don't have moisture problems with it.



I've got some Corian too. Maybe one day I'll try that.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

So, would it just be easier to use a tap to add threads?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> So, would it just be easier to use a tap to add threads?


if you have one on hand...
a simple file will fix that right up if you don't...


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

If a tap is not available, use a self tapping screw to cut the threads then put a set screw in there. I still don't understand cutting the head off a screw then putting a slot in it. Unless you just cannot get a set screw.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Everend said:


> If a tap is not available, use a self tapping screw to cut the threads then put a set screw in there. I still don't understand cutting the head off a screw then putting a slot in it. Unless you just cannot get a set screw.


I wonder if bubble gum would work?

Herb


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Herb Stoops said:


> I wonder if bubble gum would work?
> 
> Herb


Probably, but don't put much weight on the insert after you get it leveled. There might be a slight bio hazard involved in using this method too.

I prefer threading the leveling holes of my inserts with a machine screw tap and then installing set screws. I prefer 1/4 - 28, but it's your choice. The finer thread helps to keep them from backing out on their own, but if they get loose, Lock-Tite Blue will work, or cyano glue and hardener, followed by drilling and re-tapping the hole will fix it too. I have a magnetic tool holder on the front of my Unisaw that holds the right size Allen wrench, the saw arbor wrenches, and an extending magnetic retriever (for finding the dropped arbor washer and/or nut in the sawdust).

Charley


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

CharleyL said:


> I have a magnetic tool holder on the front of my Unisaw that holds the right size Allen wrench, the saw arbor wrenches, and an extending magnetic retriever (for finding the dropped arbor washer and/or nut in the sawdust).
> 
> Charley


I just knew there had to be a better way than getting down on the old hands and knees. Thanks for that.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Here's an update*

I did receive 3 new MLCS Zero Clearance plates and the look to be made of UHMW. They do look terrific with set screws plus a tab where the tab is on my original Ridgid. I have not test fit them yet but will get to that, I'm going to install a Micro Jig Splitter in one.

Bryan


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Everend said:


> If a tap is not available, use a self tapping screw to cut the threads then put a set screw in there. I still don't understand cutting the head off a screw then putting a slot in it. Unless you just cannot get a set screw.


I have the set screw (allen/hex). I will just get a tap. No big rush. Got a commercial insert for ZC use that already had the cutout for the riving knife. I'll use it as a pattern and make a bunch of extras. I'd like to have one for each blade.

I like the idea of drilling some extra openings for dust collection. Sounds like a good idea to me. Cleaning sawdust off the table between cuts just launches the darn stuff into the air.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> I like the idea of drilling some extra openings for dust collection. Sounds like a good idea to me. Cleaning sawdust off the table between cuts just launches the darn stuff into the air.


Tom,

Did anyone say how big of hole to drill?

Bryan


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I use nylon set screws, they were real cheap out of McMaster

McMaster-Carr


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

bryansong said:


> Tom,
> 
> Did anyone say how big of hole to drill?
> 
> Bryan


Half an inch is what I recall. Don't want to weaken the insert too much.


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