# Do we really need all the tools we have...?



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I watch these videos from time to time because it's fascinating what can be done with so little. Not the safest way to operate for sure...






...it's a bit long at 20 minutes but still fascinating...no screws (except in a few spots), tight-fitting complex joints, splicing, etc...

Enjoy...I do...


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

Where there is a will there's a way. Lots of what I do outside of woodworking requires different tools in order to disassemble or assemble things. Sometimes McGyvering stuff is ok, other times it's stupid and or dangerous.

It is possible to dig a ditch with a spoon or cut a tree down with a knife, but.......

I for one like decent tools, but only when they function properly. Or make your own. Or go to Harbor Freight/Princess Auto/Rockler/Woodcraft, SnapOn truck,online etc.

All individual preference, mindset and situation IMHO.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> *Do we really need all the tools we have...?.*


seriously????


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> seriously????



Yup...but it depends on the job...

When I work at other people's houses I don't bring my whole shop with me...

...circular saw replaces table saw and miter saw (yes...even for crown molding)
...even the circular saw can be replaced
...saw horses replaces bench
...rulers and tapes replace jigs
...1's and 2x's replace straight edges and templates
...small block place for corners
...chisels instead of mortise and tenon tools
etc...

That doesn't mean I'm throwing my arsenal out...but...more and more I think of alternative ways to cut and whirlie besides loading up the trailer...

Again, it depends on the job and certainly the shop makes it easy...but for off-site jobs I tend to travel lighter...maybe I'm starting to lean to hand vs power...

...just sayin'


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Need"...sorry, not familiar with the concept. 

OK: if we're talking about a brewski, well then...

I haven't watched the vid yet, but that opening shot grabbed my attention! Is he nutz???


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> "Need"...sorry, not familiar with the concept.
> 
> OK: if we're talking about a brewski, well then...
> 
> I haven't watched the vid yet, but that opening shot grabbed my attention! Is he nutz???


That bugged me too. What's his hand doing right in front of that blade. Hit a knot or hidden nail and the saw jumps and slices off a finger or two. 

And when it comes to tool, when does need out vote want. Yup, taking tools on the job is definitely time to travel light, but I don't get that far from electricity around here where I do all my carpentry projects. That's why I bought that 100 ft 12 gauge extension cable, and those battery operated tools.

Interesting video though.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"That bugged me too. What's his hand doing right in front of that blade. Hit a knot or hidden nail and the saw jumps and slices off a finger or two. "
-Tom
Exactly. No excuses; his other hand is on the trigger switch!
Not to mention crouching directly behind the saw...with open-toed sandals!!!


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Might be wrong, but looks to me like his hand is behind the saw. Trigger? All the circular saws I've seen the trigger points toward the front of the saw. Guard always raises up in the rear. I'll have to watch the video.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

I agree with Theo - the guy's hand is behind the saw. But the whole operation is still kind of dicey, and the sandals look like an occupational hazard.


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

All the same, the guy rips straighter than I can with a circ saw without a guide, and I envy those nice boards he has laminated.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Do we really need all the tools we have?

I do.... need a few more now that you mention it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

JOAT said:


> Might be wrong, but looks to me like his hand is behind the saw. Trigger? All the circular saws I've seen the trigger points toward the front of the saw. Guard always raises up in the rear. I'll have to watch the video.


Theo; in fact it's more dangerous behind the saw than in front of it. But yes behind it in the pic, hence my comment re standing behind the saw making the cut with his toes almost in the line of fire. :surprise:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Marco;
Like the Universe, the list just keeps expanding.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

You guys are just spoiled, thats all.When I started we wedged up the guards on the saws, ran the saws with the blades all the way up or down, Leaned ladders against the wall without tieing them down, walked the top plates on the walls, walked the beams, no harnesses,safety belts,2-3 stories up, hung upside down with someone hanging onto our ankles. tied our pant legs around our boots to keep the mud out. Pack as many studs on your arm as the distance between your wrist and your elbow,(9 in my case) from the lumber pile to the house across a 2X12 plank.
We packed 4-12', 14', 3-16' 2x4 plate on our shoulders. Even had to pack 4X12 garage door header 18' long alone. 6 sheet of 3/8" sheathing, 2 sheets of 1 1/8"decking, 4 sheets of 1/2" plywood alone at a time. 
We worked in the rain the snow, freezing, no hard hats or safety shoes, wore nail bags with all pouches full of nails,tools,plus a 32 0z. hammer. You didn't see any little ole ladies on the job then. At least we wore good strong boots that cost us over a days wages.
I can relate to that video, and I bet there are not many injuries there either. When you work like that every nerve in your body is alive because you know you can get hurt. 
I would have like to seen the carving of the boards on the video. 
They probably only get $1.25/day too.
Herb


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Herb Stoops said:


> You guys are just spoiled, thats all.When I started we wedged up the guards on the saws, ran the saws with the blades all the way up or down, Leaned ladders against the wall without tieing them down, walked the top plates on the walls, walked the beams, no harnesses,safety belts,2-3 stories up, hung upside down with someone hanging onto our ankles. tied our pant legs around our boots to keep the mud out. Pack as many studs on your arm as the distance between your wrist and your elbow,(9 in my case) from the lumber pile to the house across a 2X12 plank.
> We packed 4-12', 14', 3-16' 2x4 plate on our shoulders. Even had to pack 4X12 garage door header 18' long alone. 6 sheet of 3/8" sheathing, 2 sheets of 1 1/8"decking, 4 sheets of 1/2" plywood alone at a time.
> We worked in the rain the snow, freezing, no hard hats or safety shoes, wore nail bags with all pouches full of nails,tools,plus a 32 0z. hammer. You didn't see any little ole ladies on the job then. At least we wore good strong boots that cost us over a days wages.
> I can relate to that video, and I bet there are not many injuries there either. When you work like that every nerve in your body is alive because you know you can get hurt.
> ...


Herb today your job then is now a 2 man job, one to do the carpentry work and the other to drive he fork lift! :smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Marco;
> Like the Universe, the list just keeps expanding.


exponentially...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Theo; in fact it's more dangerous behind the saw than in front of it. But yes behind it in the pic, hence my comment re standing behind the saw making the cut with his toes almost in the line of fire. :surprise:


I would much rather behind than in front.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Herb Stoops said:


> I can relate to that video, and I bet there are not many injuries there either. When you work like that every nerve in your body is alive because you know you can get hurt.
> I would have like to seen the carving of the boards on the video.
> They probably only get $1.25/day too.
> Herb


I never heard of any injuries that way in the times I was in that part of the world. Like I always say, you need to be a bit scared of the machines you work with, so then you are careful, not careless. I visited a furniture factory, all the carving was done by a crew about 10 or so to about 14. I'm thinking they get a bit more than that a day, skilled labor after all, but not going to get rich by our standards most likely.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Marco said:


> Herb today your job then is now a 2 man job, one to do the carpentry work and the other to drive he fork lift! :smile:


You are right,it was ladders leaning against the post or step ladder with a guy on each end and the beam on his shoulder, There were other helping hoist it onto your shoulder though. and 2 men loading the trusses, and one man tipping them up. There wasn't a boom or forklift on the job. 
Everything was hand nailed,and even when pneumatic nailers and staplers showed up it took a couple of years before the Building Dept. accepted them. I remember having to go back and hand nail the outside sheathing and plywood deck because the inspector didn't accept air nailing.
Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

JOAT said:


> I would much rather behind than in front.


I'd be willing to bet that most circ. saw injuries, especially to the groin, inner thigh, and leg, are from saws binding and kicking back. In theory at least the soleplate should hit your hand before the blade can make contact, if your hand (or foot?) is in in front.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most circ. saw injuries, especially to the groin, inner thigh, and leg, are from saws binding and kicking back. In theory at least the soleplate should hit your hand before the blade can make contact, if your hand (or foot?) is in in front.


The right way to use a skilsaw is the keep the nosedown tight and apply pressue as you saw on the nose of the saw. This also applies to plunge cutting. The second you let the heel of the saw get more pressure than the nose,it will kick back,and you can't stop it.
Herb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Absolutely...there are lots of hazards in the video...doing it all day every day they sure do cut straight and accurate....the joints especially, hand cut with a saw.

I started to think they wouldn't get any screws in their bare feet but then later in the video they do use screws for the table top.

Like Herb said...would have been nice to see all the carving...oh, well...

Maybe this thread should turn into "how many hazards can you count"...?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Also In my mind, it was the highspeed saws that were the most dangerous, and the worm drives the safest. Because it was easier to keep the weight forward and the nose down. If you notice the persons using the hispeed saws have the heel lifted a tiny bit when sawing.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Also In my mind, it was the highspeed saws that were the most dangerous, and the worm drives the safest. Because it was easier to keep the weight forward and the nose down. If you notice the persons using the hispeed saws have the heel lifted a tiny bit when sawing.



Worm drives are my favorite (Mag77), especially for ripping long boards...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I may have the record for the most unused tools . Bought a GI 15” planer, never hooked up. 15” GI disc sander station , never hooked up .
Incra router table , fences , lift etc . Never assembled. 
Gripper , still in the box . 
Bosch 1617 router , never plugged in . (Should test to see if it works ) 
I’m sure I’ll think of several more by tomorrow :|


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most circ. saw injuries, especially to the groin, inner thigh, and leg, are from saws binding and kicking back. In theory at least the soleplate should hit your hand before the blade can make contact, if your hand (or foot?) is in in front.


The only circular saw injury I have ever heard of was a friend of my old man. He took the guard off a circular saw, for some unknown reason, he never told. He cut something, then while the blade was still spinning, set the saw on his leg. Cut him down to the bone, and somehow he survived. If the guard had been left on, he would not even have gotten a nick.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I may have the record for the most unused tools . Bought a GI 15” planer, never hooked up. 15” GI disc sander station , never hooked up .
> Incra router table , fences , lift etc . Never assembled.
> Gripper , still in the box .
> Bosch 1617 router , never plugged in . (Should test to see if it works )
> I’m sure I’ll think of several more by tomorrow :|



Ok, Rick...there is a positive side to your dilemma...you can do unboxing reviews for all that stuff...>


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

@!Herb Stoops,
My father was a master builder and contractor. Sometimes in the afternoon, after school, I used to go out to his sites with him. The methods of working are as you described, except that there is no timber framing here - masonry and concrete, with wood trusses for pitched roofs of houses. When necessary, guys hoisted 50 kg bags of cement up ladders, for mixing a batch in a tight spot. His carpenters eschewed powered tools, other than for gang-cutting boards to length for scaffolding, trusses or making forms for reinforced concrete beams. I remember he bought a worm-drive Skilsaw - lasted forever, because so little used. Ditto with a Millers Falls D-handle high-torque drill - the guys preferred brace-and-bit. The power drill kept burning out, because it was used for the very purpose it was not designed to do - twisting galvanised wire into cables. 
I was assiduously discouraged from having anything to do with that line of work - steered towards a profession. Consequently, when the old man and his crew retired, it did not even occur to me to get hold of the Stanley planes - when I eventually bought one (made in UK) some 35 yrs ago, it could easily have been made in China. For decades, I believed that I just did not have what it takes to use a hand plane.

Still, we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before. I imagine the guys who built in Roman times would have scoffed at your boots, and those who built the pyramids would have scoffed at these new-fangled steel things.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

Luxury!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> "That bugged me too. What's his hand doing right in front of that blade. Hit a knot or hidden nail and the saw jumps and slices off a finger or two. "
> -Tom
> Exactly. No excuses; his other hand is on the trigger switch!
> Not to mention crouching directly behind the saw...with open-toed sandals!!!


look again..
his hand is behind the saw...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Theo; in fact it's more dangerous behind the saw than in front of it. But yes behind it in the pic, hence my comment re standing behind the saw making the cut with his toes almost in the line of fire. :surprise:


two hands on the saw please...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> They probably only get $1.25/day too.
> Herb


he must be management to get those wages...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most circ. saw injuries, especially to the groin, inner thigh, and leg, are from saws binding and kicking back. In theory at least the soleplate should hit your hand before the blade can make contact, if your hand (or foot?) is in in front.


mostly from using body parts for sawhorses...
or poor maint...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Absolutely...there are lots of hazards in the video...doing it all day every day they sure do cut straight and accurate....the joints especially, hand cut with a saw.
> 
> I started to think they wouldn't get any screws in their bare feet but then later in the video they do use screws for the table top.
> 
> ...


his planer and mortiser are definitely upscale...
took so much money to by them there wasn't anything left for hand tools...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Worm drives are my favorite (Mag77), especially for ripping long boards...


ditto..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'd be willing to bet that most circ. saw injuries, especially to the groin, inner thigh, and leg, are from saws binding and kicking back. In theory at least the soleplate should hit your hand before the blade can make contact, if your hand (or foot?) is in in front.


''other tools'' aren't w/o their issues...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

place this add...
it should get some results....

,


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## 6920 (Oct 19, 2020)

Not sure how many tools I need, but it’s always more than I have


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

6920 said:


> Not sure how many tools I need, but it’s always more than I have


I've been adding tools myself, mostly cordless. Chisels, rubber mallet, spray bottle, and so on.


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## schmitt32linedrill (Apr 23, 2013)

tulowd said:


> Where there is a will there's a way. Lots of what I do outside of woodworking requires different tools in order to disassemble or assemble things. Sometimes McGyvering stuff is ok, other times it's stupid and or dangerous.
> 
> It is possible to dig a ditch with a spoon or cut a tree down with a knife, but.......
> 
> ...





Nickp said:


> I watch these videos from time to time because it's fascinating what can be done with so little. Not the safest way to operate for sure...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Nickp said:


> I watch these videos from time to time because it's fascinating what can be done with so little. Not the safest way to operate for sure...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just watched the video about building the table and am now crying. That happens when I experience something really amazing.

Art S


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