# Raise panel "chipping"



## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Good morning. I have been wondering around the forum now for several days trying to get a grasp on what information was already discussed in detail so i wouldn't be repeating questions. Oh, I seen a lot about the CMT industrio router table and purchased one yesterday for myself. Although, I couldn't get it for the $330.00 some people got it at. Anyway, I am making my own kithchen cabinets and am making my raised panel doors right now. I am using 3/4" oak stock with brand new CMT bits. The oak seems to be "chipping" way too much on my practice pieces. I think it may have to do with me not having a zero clearance fence. Would someone please help me understand the basics of chipless routing. Thanks...


Hoyett


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Oak can be quite stringy, can't it! 

The usual suggestions are (in no particular order) :

Correct feed speed

Correct rotation speed (panel raising bits can be big honkers)

Clean bits/cutters

Zero clearance fence/insert to support work for as long as possible before it enters the cutting zone.

Run end grain first then run parallel. Also look at grain direction and try to take advantage of it if possible. This works with LOTS of situations.

Small cuts working your way up to final depth. Last cut can be a thin, finishing cut. (This has been the #1 "trick" for me so far)

Backing boards & sacrifical push blocks (may not be completely appropriate for horizontal panel raising though, maybe better with vertical for helping to support the work piece). Very important and often makes things safer.

Harry, Bob, Mike or somebody with 20x to 100x my experience can help you sort out which will help the most. Probably going to be a combination of things you need to do to minimize the chip-out.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Hoyett

I have two of the CMT industrio router tables and I'm sure you will like it...

The chip out.... CMT ( sommerfeld) makes a neat bit set it comes with two bearings,, one big one and a small one for the last pass with the panel bit..
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=06001

You didn't say what the brand name of bit you are using BUT you can buy just the bearing ( the big one ) that will fit many panel bits ( it's 8mm/ 5/16" ID ) but it's very thin bearing and the only place I have found it is at sommerfeld tools.

It will help with the rip out and stop it in most cases,,,but do look real hard at the grain on the wood that's a big key to stop rip out, that's to say how it was milled at the lumber yard... 

You would think I would know the part number for the bearing, I order two of them ( 06-2008) for other bits I have but I don't recall the number off the top of my head, if you want it I will did it up just ask..
But I will say bearings are bearings ,you may have a bearing supply outlet in your town and you may get them cheaper that way..  but I could not find them as a stock item..and they must be dead on.

Hoyett
here's the part number HC318DZZ 
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HC318DZZ

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JUst as a side note, I'm making a new Horz.router setup and it's going on the back side of one of the CMT router tables you may want to check it out next week, it's just a copy of the one I have from MLCS but with some updates and using a standard drop in router mounting plate on the vert.

Here's a small peek of some of the parts for the new setup.see below..

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Hoyett said:


> Good morning. I have been wondering around the forum now for several days trying to get a grasp on what information was already discussed in detail so i wouldn't be repeating questions. Oh, I seen a lot about the CMT industrio router table and purchased one yesterday for myself. Although, I couldn't get it for the $330.00 some people got it at. Anyway, I am making my own kithchen cabinets and am making my raised panel doors right now. I am using 3/4" oak stock with brand new CMT bits. The oak seems to be "chipping" way too much on my practice pieces. I think it may have to do with me not having a zero clearance fence. Would someone please help me understand the basics of chipless routing. Thanks...
> 
> 
> Hoyett


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI Hoyett
> 
> I have two of the CMT industrio router tables and I'm sure you will like it...
> 
> ...


You can also set the fence with your straight edge across the bearing, clamp a couple pieces of scrap wood which touch the fence backside, make however make incremental cuts you want, and return the fence to its stops for the final depth.


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## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks guys. I never even thought of looking at the wood grain itself to be a contributor. What actually should I be looking for and what should I try and avoid. Thanks for the inputs as well. I greatly appreciate it.

Hoyett


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> HI Hoyett
> 
> I have two of the CMT industrio router tables and I'm sure you will like it...
> 
> ...


For non-curved panels you can also set the fence with your straight edge across the bearing, clamp a couple pieces of scrap wood which touch the fence backside, make however make incremental cuts you want, and return the fence to its stops for the final depth.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Hoyett

They mill the tree to get all they can from it ,some of the cuts are not to good for panel work....

The bit is always trying to lift the stock up and hog out all it can...
It helps some times to use a block on the fence to hold the stock down to the table top, not feather boards a nice clean true 2" x 4" - 2" x 6" works well for this job, the feather boards will want to push the stock down at the end of the pass...and put in a small snipe in...

Just a note,,,if the panel is over 6" wide rip the stock and then glue it up to get the best grain showing...and to get the rings going up and down in the same panel..........or to say not all running all the same way...it's a tree and it's always trying to go back to that point ( cup/bow ) 

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Hoyett said:


> Thanks guys. I never even thought of looking at the wood grain itself to be a contributor. What actually should I be looking for and what should I try and avoid. Thanks for the inputs as well. I greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Hoyett


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

I made the switch from sheet goods only to solid wood accents on my current project and found that chipout (when I seemed to be doing everything right) pretty much always matched up with a change in the grain direction I could see on the top of the board.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Hoyett said:


> Thanks guys. I never even thought of looking at the wood grain itself to be a contributor. What actually should I be looking for and what should I try and avoid. Thanks for the inputs as well. I greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Hoyett


If at all possible when you select or glue-up your panel blanks, look for grain that runs as straight as possible along the edges you are going to route. If you have lots of little switchbacks, each one of those is a potential chip-out point along the edge. For the endgrain part, I should think finding boards that are nice and tight endgrain would be better. Quatersawn even?

And even when you are routing along the grain, one side with be "with" the grain and the other side "against" it. You can tell which is which by running your hand or a rag along the grain. One direction ("with") will slip easy, the other will catch a bit. 

The business about gluing a panel with boards aligned for alternating ring direction is probably sound advice but recently I've heard some arguments to the contrary. But I think they really only apply to BIG panels like table tops. 

Setting a stop for your fence once you have aligned with the bit bearing is a good idea. That way you can slide the fence forward and expose less of the bit. Take smaller cuts and then for the last cut maybe 1/16 or even 1/32 to make it nice and smooth. So far that has worked for me but I haven't done more than a half dozen panels and none with a complex profile so the bit has been easy to keep clean.


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## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks guys. I will be putting all of this to use this week once I get my new router table set up. I knew when I found this web site I could learn a lot from you guys. Thanks again...
I'll keep you posted.

Hoyett


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## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok, my table still isn't in yet. I guess CMT shipped it via a slow boat from China. Anyway, I have to use my old one for now. I can't stand waiting on a project that has taken me wayy tooo long to complete. Has anyone used the CMT glass door set? My set came with no instructions and no dvd or video. I did call CMT and they said they will be making a video in the future. On the CMT web site I downloaded a picture and it says that you have to have stops set up when you use the bit that cuts out the part for the glass retainer so you will not see it on the edge of the board. Has anyone done this yet? If so how far did you set the stops from the egde of the doors?

Hoyett


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Hoyett

Stops do work but you don't need them 

Just slide the stock into the bit on the out feed side of the fence and stop short on the in feed side of the fence..
Just put some masking tape on the fence and mark it so you know where to start and stop..
Plus a made a jig to cut the glass retainer, just ask and I will post a picture of it...the retainer must be cut at a 45 deg. and it must be dead on...

Just a tip, do make the jigs to hold the stock for you, it's a bit tricky to hold them right without them..

If you didn't see the video you may not know what they look like if so just ask and I will post a snapshot of them...it's just some true and square 2 x 4 and some 2 x 6 stock..that the push block is screwed to...


Get the Sommerfeld DVD videos below
http://www.ptreeusa.com/woodworking_videos.htm
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Hoyett said:


> Ok, my table still isn't in yet. I guess CMT shipped it via a slow boat from China. Anyway, I have to use my old one for now. I can't stand waiting on a project that has taken me wayy tooo long to complete. Has anyone used the CMT glass door set? My set came with no instructions and no dvd or video. I did call CMT and they said they will be making a video in the future. On the CMT web site I downloaded a picture and it says that you have to have stops set up when you use the bit that cuts out the part for the glass retainer so you will not see it on the edge of the board. Has anyone done this yet? If so how far did you set the stops from the egde of the doors?
> 
> Hoyett


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Hoyett

I did take a trip to the shop and got a snapshot or two just for kicks, I hope they help with your project .. 

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## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Ok, my table is put together and I have 4 extra M6X60 screws. Where do these things go? I didn't put the table together so I don't even know if there are some in there either. Help!!! I have looked through the CMT search and looked at a lot of pictures but can not find where these darn things go...

Hoyett


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Hoyett

Are they the Allen/Phil.Flat head ones ?, machine screw threads or sheet metal type screws..?
" about 1/4 x 2 1/2" long " ?

It sounds like you are looking at the hold down bolts for the drop in base plate, it can be locked in place if you want it to.
But you should have 4ea. plastic cross bars that the bolts go in under the table top and some nuts to hold them in place.
They are brown plastic with long slots in them..(cross bars)

" I didn't put the table together " who did ?

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Hoyett said:


> Ok, my table is put together and I have 4 extra M6X60 screws. Where do these things go? I didn't put the table together so I don't even know if there are some in there either. Help!!! I have looked through the CMT search and looked at a lot of pictures but can not find where these darn things go...
> 
> Hoyett


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## Hoyett (Oct 6, 2008)

Bobj, The company had one of their employees start putting it together since I was trying to meet a dead line in getting my glass doors completed. Shipping took longer than he expected. The thumbnail that you showed is exactly the one I have 4 extra of. I will use 4 of them to hold down the router insert but do not know what to do with the other 4. 

Hoyett


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Hoyett

I guess you are the lucky one that got 4 extra ones 
It must have been a Fri.5:00 O'clock pack up job..

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Hoyett said:


> Bobj, The company had one of their employees start putting it together since I was trying to meet a dead line in getting my glass doors completed. Shipping took longer than he expected. The thumbnail that you showed is exactly the one I have 4 extra of. I will use 4 of them to hold down the router insert but do not know what to do with the other 4.
> 
> Hoyett


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