# Advice on router table - build or buy?



## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

I still haven't done anything in regards to getting a router up and working again since my HF return, hence my dilemma....

My purchase for next month is going to be one of 2 things:

A Bosch RA1181 Benchtop Router Table

or 

Build a table using Steve Ramseys build as a guide with a Kreg PRS3038 TL-Blank Insert Plate plus the spacers for it.

My dilemma stems from the price:

The cost of the Bosch is $170 (approx. tax included) - however I would still need to build a base for it (I'd do another rolling cart for it with drawers). I'm thinking tops add in another $50 in plywood for the build. The Bosch also comes with the fence, T slots, and feather boards. 


If I build the Ramsey table from scratch the price is around $160 - $200 (approx no tax depending which wood I go with) for wood, the Kreg plate and spacers. However, I would still have to build a fence, T slots and buy or make feather boards - this would add an additional $100 - $150 to the cost of the build, which would put this project at a 2 month budget instead of one month.

I'm kinda torn between the 2 - I don't mind making the Ramsey table which would take 2-3 days and an additional day for the routing top.

The cart with drawers I do them in 1 day and I'm ready to go as soon as the router table shows up.

Any thoughts one way or the other?

Thanks as always in advance


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Sounds nearly like paralytic analysis.
Got time? Build one. 
You'll learn a lot more from that than you ever will from a purchase.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I'd say build, that way you get what you want, not what someone else thinks you want. I'm on table four or five now, I didn't follow any plans. My tables do just what I want them for. If my want changes, new table. And I don't think I've got $10 cash in them all combined.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

$13 Grizzly PT10432047 plate and some BB plywood. Dust collection fence out of 2 x 8 pine. 2 modified C clamps. Instructions for the top, plate installation and C clamp conversion in sticky threads at the top of different sections of the forums.

http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...le-top-install-mounting-plate.html#post127219

http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/24098-converting-c-clamps.html#post206030


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## furboo (Oct 12, 2015)

Although the Kreg version might cost twice as much, you'll end up with a much better table and fence than the Bosch. Is worth twice as much? Probably more than that. I had the Bosch and it's OK, but has a lot of faults. The Ramsey looks pretty nice.

Note that I generally like Bosch tools, just not that router table. The only good side is that I sold it for what I paid for it, but that included a base that I had made for it.


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## fire65 (Oct 29, 2008)

I would say build. If you buy one you will probably end up building later on. Even if you build you may end up building another one later as you see what you like and dislike. Many of us have been through several I am sure.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've built tables as cheap as $5. Fences for another $5 that are as good as anything you can buy. All a router table is is a flat surface with a hole for the bit to stick through. All a fence is is a strait edge with a cutout where the bit will be and believe me when I tell you that many of our members have gone that way when they needed a table in a hurry. And in a lot of those cases we used those tables a lot longer than we originally intended because they were getting the job done.

Quillman is correct when he said "analysis paralysis". We see it often. Someone who is so so afraid of making a mistake and not getting the perfect table on the first try that they can't make a decision. The truth is I'm not sure if there is a perfect table or what it looks like. Some designs will do some things better than others. It all depends on what you need it to do. Like Theo (Joat) I'm at least on my 5th table and I might not be finished. My most expensive one is a Lee Valley steel table my wife gave me for a Christmas present that was about $200 and to be honest I use my home made ones more often and I've never spent more that $10 on one of them until now. My latest one will cost closer to $75-100 because I needed a cabinet to store routers and bits this time.

I don't agree with Mike that it needs to be made from Baltic birch. That stuff is expensive and it isn't necessary. I made one table from 5/8" melamine coated particle board. I used it for 3 years and my son in law has had it for 2 years and it's still dead flat. No panel material is meant to span a distance between supports. It should have a framework under it to support it and keep it flat exactly the same as as floor joists support a floor. Do that and any panel material will work. There is a ton of info in old posts about making your own and the members will help with any advice you need if you ask.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Build one. Use inexpensive wood for the case, use melamine for the top and check it for flat with a straight edge before you buy it. Go to HD and borrow a good straight edge and walk it over to the melamine area. I like Baltic Birch for the top, but you can get a piece large enough for a bottom layer for the top for maybe $25$. That second flat layer just helps keep the top flat, and gives you a little extra depth for the rabbit to hold the mounting plate without sagging.

Just buy the Bosch router with the fixed base, or in the EVSPK kit. You will need that and a pattern bit with the bearing on the shaft end, not the tip. You can use a piece of wood clamped to the top as a guide for the rabbit that will be slightly deeper than the thickness of the mounting plate.

The paralysis thing will really mess a guy up. Know what happens if you screw it up? Nothing much. At worst you learn a lesson and start over. More likely, if you watch a lot of videos first, it will turn out OK. As the musician said, "don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy."

I'm making my first frame for my wife's painting and doing my very first fine finishing project. I've followed my own advice, and read a lot and watched many videos, so it was time to start. Oddly enough, many of my not-quite-clear questions were answered by reading the labels on the cans. Oh rats, read the instructions (although the subminiature type on the can is really hard to read except in bright sunshine). 

You will find that just jumping in will get you far along pretty fast.


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## sunnybob (Apr 3, 2015)

Build it.
Mine has gone through 4 changes in 2 years. I dont even make it "pretty", because I'm sure it will be changed again soon. I also made it big (almost a yard square) so I can use it as a laying out table because I'm desperately short on space.

STAY AWAY from resin router plates. They warp! Spend your cash on a metal plate and make everything else yourself. I'm a complete newbie on woodwork, but have just made my own lift literally out of scrap sticks and it works for me.


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## jody495 (Sep 11, 2011)

Does anyone know where I can find the Steve Ramsey router table plans? Thanks


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Steve+Ramsey+router+table+plans&t=ffsb&ia=videos


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

jaody said:


> Does anyone know where I can find the Steve Ramsey router table plans? Thanks


As far as I know he didn't make plans for it - what I am doing is watching the 3 videos and writing down each step

If you need the videos let me know


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

DesertRatTom said:


> Build one. Use inexpensive wood for the case, use melamine for the top and check it for flat with a straight edge before you buy it.
> 
> 
> Go to HD and borrow a good straight edge and walk it over to the melamine area.


What straight edge? You mean the metal/aluminium strips they sell? Are they guaranteed straight?





> You will need that and a pattern bit with the bearing on the shaft end, not the tip. You can use a piece of wood clamped to the top as a guide for the rabbit that will be slightly deeper than the thickness of the mounting plate.


Not sure I understand this "wood clamped to the top as a guide?"



> You will find that just jumping in will get you far along pretty fast.


Agreed - so far this has been how I've progressed and hasn't failed me to much yet.

Thanks for the advice


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

The 1181 is a good benchtop/portable table. Split fence with dust collection will do everything you will need. It has an aluminum top so you would need to keep it clean AND waxed often as it will otherwise leave black streaks on your project.

I have the 1181 and it is serving me well. I pull it out set it on a surface and route away. But...my own plans are to build a wheeled cabinet base mainly for additional related storage. Haven't quite made up my mind what design I will use as I'm likely to design it for my own purposes when the time comes. I'm thinking a dust collection box, fresh air intake for the router, lots of drawers sized appropriately and one big drawer on the bottom for "big stuff". Since I don't have room right now, I'm holding off until I do.

Couple of weeks ago I needed the table, couldn't get to it due to a remodel of garage and basement, grabbed a 2x2 piece of ply, cut a hole in the center, 2x6 with clamps for a fence, stuck it out in the driveway on a couple of sawhorses and 15 minutes I was routing away.

I am not likely to use any of the components from the 1181 so when I build it will leave the 1181 whole for portable jobs. I do on-site work so it will continue to be of benefit.


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## Potowner1 (Feb 17, 2011)

Jessie, 

Build one of your own. 

The good people on this forum are very generous with knowledge and patience. The baby say for me while I did my first RT and I haven't looked back since then.

GOOD LUCK.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Build it but don't spend that kind of money. The plate, featherboards (4) and 1 T track are all you need. If there is someplace in your area that sells used office furniture, ask them for a 4' workstation top. You might get lucky and they will give you a odd color one for free. They are about 1 1/4" thick and make a perfect set up.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Build your own! And build a good one! It does not have to be a work of art, nor does it have to be a money pit. It will cost you more than the table your looking at! However, what you gain will follow you the rest of your woodworking life. Planning, techniques, accuracy, material selection, space utilization, tool use, mistakes (and there will be mistakes) corrections and achievement all will grow your wood working skill set. Big or small, stationary or mobile regardless, build one that will contribute to your growth as a woodworker rather than hinder it. Every aspect of a build will teach you about the limitations and capabilities/capacities of each component of the table. Future projects all benefit from your knowing what your equipment can and can not handle. You benefit from knowing ahead of time what you should be able to expect out of it. If throwing a 2x4 on a piece of plywood meets your needs, have at it...but for the life of me, I can find no value in that aside from throwing together a job site table.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jessie, 4 pieces of wood clamped in a square like the Trend VariJig shown makes it very easy to cut the through hole in your table top. You can fasten the wood down with double sided tape. Attach a piece the same thickness as your wood to the router with double sided tape for stability when routing.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I'll chime in. Build it. You will learn so much along the way and if you don't like it, you can build a better one later. I was hesitant to build my first one but when it was done, I looked back and thought - that wasn't very hard at all.

I would start with a table top by itself. Route out the opening for the plate and put it on sawhorses to start. Then build the base (using the router/table top). Make sure you get lots of storage. The Steve Ramsey router table looks like a variant of the Norm Abram router table. You can find lots of plans for that online.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm going against the grain and say buy the top and lift , then build the bottom to your spec. I've spent more money on screw ups then it would be for a prefabricated one .
I'm liking the dea of building from the bottom down though , as I can design the storage and DC to the way I want


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Every couple years I notice someone mention the "Norm Abram table" and I get upset all over again. The table in question is from a plan in Fine Woodworking Magazine. One of our forum members was selling this table as the XL1000 for 6 months before Rockler paid Norm to build a new table featuring their products. Before that Norm used a Rousseau plate in a table of his own design for 10 years. When I asked the NYW about the similarity between "Norm's table" and the XL1000 I was told that the XL1000 was "Pirated" from Norm's design. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have a great deal of respect for Norm and all he has done to promote woodworking over the years. No doubt he is truly a master craftsman. I just dislike misinformation. Give credit where credit is due.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Gee Mike, tell us how you really feel! I've always heard it as "Norm's" table. To be fair, he did a lot to publicize that design to a much wider audience. I'd be willing to bet you could find even earlier similar designs than FWW. Borrowing ideas has a long history.

We all stand on the shoulders of giants. By the way, that was first attributed in English to Isaac Newton in 1676 but he apparently stole it from some one else (12th century Bernard of Chartres).


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

Thanks all for the encouragement and advice.

Still pondering my options while I try to build drawer boxes and drawers 

The router table build is more than likely what I'm going to do if my next cart comes out decent - the next one is going to be for my miter saw and the most complex item I've built so far.

If it doesn't come out decent I'll know I'm not ready for a big project like the router table and will just buy the Bosch  and make a cart for it


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Jessie I bought an Incra top and fence , plus there lift . Would have gone with a Bosch router if I could do it over again as my lift fits many models . I bought two brand new PC 7518-2s which are motor only , but getting a lot of bad press the last few years . 

The Incra fence is a feat of engineering in itself , with an interesting setting system for small incremental changes . I bought the Incra clean sweep system also , as it controls dust much better according to there video . Won't know till I try however


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I was in your exact position. I built mine but after the dust cleared wish I would have bought the Bosch and built my own later. Get up and running hassle free and enjoy.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Hah. Knew that somewhere I had to have some pictures of my router table. And I still can't figure out how I did it. The top is, I think, 3 pieces of 1/2" plywood. The plate is 1/2" plywood - I think I glued some plywood strips along the edges of the opening, so the plate is held up. Under the top is a spiderweb of 2/4 chunks, so there has been absolutely no warp in all the years I have had it. I have several plates, each with a 1/4" router screwed to them, and each has a different type of bit. Don' need no steenkin' lift. I can pop the plate off, it's just held in place by gravity, change the bit if need be, put the plate back, all faster than if I had a lift. Even faster is to pop the plate, and put another in place. It is mostly glued together, with a few bolts to hold it up. And I still don't know how I figure out that plate, or how I did it; works like a champ tho. When I 'upgrade' a router table I try to salvage as much of it as I can, to use in the next table. This involves taking out the bolts, then using a short handles sledgehammer to knock it apart, and not just some taps either, full force, and several blows minimum. If I need a fence, well, thats what clamps and a chunk of 2/4 are for. It is exactly what I want, and need, and works exactly as I want it to.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Mike said:


> *Give credit where credit is due*.



...and who was the member...?


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

newbie2wood said:


> I still haven't done anything in regards to getting a router up and working again since my HF return, hence my dilemma....
> 
> My purchase for next month is going to be one of 2 things:
> 
> ...


One way to save money is to not pay sales tax. Order from the net and most of the time you will not have to pay taxes and most of the time you will find what you want cheaper. I save big time on taxes as here in Tennessee our sale tax is a whopping 9 3/4%. So if I wanted to buy a $1000 jointer I would almost save $100 and get it delivered to the house. Otherwise I would have to travel 30 miles just to buy one. Need any help on finding what you want just ask and we will help. That is what this forum does.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

@Nickp

http://www.rt1000.com/


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Jessie...just in case you want more ideas for buy...






These guys go thru some tables and typical differences...

One way out for you, already mentioned above (CableGuy, post 20), is to buy a table that has a top you'd be happy with and then later use that over your own cabinet...

You'll need to give some additional consideration if you start thinking of Incra positioning...that's a whole different world there...

You may have already found bunches of youtube's on different router tables (for ideas)...


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

Thanks Nick - once again you come through for me.

Now I know what a router lift is and does!

Thanks for that


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

newbie2wood said:


> Thanks Nick - once again you come through for me.
> 
> Now I know what a router lift is and does!
> 
> Thanks for that


You can also build a lift...find Steve Ramsey on ytube...for routers where the motor separates from base like the Bosch 1617...can be purchased as a fixed and plunge or fixed or motor only...

Good luck...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jessie; did anyone ever answer your question within the question?

_"Go to HD and borrow a good straight edge and walk it over to the melamine area."

*"What straight edge? You mean the metal/aluminium strips they sell? Are they guaranteed straight?"*_

Take your pick from framing squares, long levels, drywall T squares, layout rules, SS rules, did I miss any(?)...
The thing is to not get obsessive about it; it ain't a machine shop. Any of the above will be better than fine for woodworking.
When I see a really good deal on straightedges I can't resist; I've got SS rulers all over the shop. When I've got multiples I don't have to go searching ... 
https://www.kmstools.com/magnum-36-stainless-steel-ruler-9113
https://www.amazon.ca/Empire-Level-..._UL160_SR140,160_&refRID=TXQH1E7BRB8X06SZV7X9


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

These tables are all built by the same company. Price high to low is Bosch, Craftsman and Harbor Freight. Only differences are the colors/minor cosmetics and the HF comes with a router that is suitable for use as a boat anchor.


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

Mike said:


> These tables are all built by the same company. Price high to low is Bosch, Craftsman and Harbor Freight. Only differences are the colors/minor cosmetics and the HF comes with a router that is suitable for use as a boat anchor.


I bought a HF one but the router bit wouldn't raise all the way through the hole - I made a post about it and seemed I needed to return it so I did.

Hence my new dilemma


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Jessie; did anyone ever answer your question within the question?
> 
> _"Go to HD and borrow a good straight edge and walk it over to the melamine area."
> 
> ...


Actually no, you're the first LOL

So I don't have to be anal about the straightness? That's good to know because I'm anal about my 90's and 45 degree angles LOL

I have carpenters triangle that isn't a 90 LOL it' closer to 88.5, I also have a framing square that is greater than 90 - 91.7 - I've tried to set it by tapping the adjustment point but it won't move.

I have a digital protractor I use for my angles:
http://smile.amazon.com/iGaging-Dig...1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

so for a straight edge, my lvls are fine - good to know since that's what I've been using


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jessie; mine are cast Al and milled to a flat finish. Not sure I'd trust a level made from a plastic or resin(?). My best carpenter's sq. is a Stanley SS one with, again, machined edges.
If you can't see light anywhere along the edge when it's tight to the material being considered, IMHO you're golden. There are guys here that insist on machine shop accuracy, and the question often asked is 'why'?
It's probably a personal satisfaction thing. Pat Warner (Quillman) is probably the guru on accuracy here...
ROUTER WOODWORKING
I'm pretty sure Pat's not obsessive but damn his stuff is beautiful! 
The reality is that that type of shop equipment you won't find in the bargain bin _anywhere_; In a lot of cases it certainly comes down to personal choice and budgets. 
Maybe in my next life.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

This is at his website:
Measurement & Woodworking


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

DaninVan said:


> Jessie; mine are cast Al and milled to a flat finish. Not sure I'd trust a level made from a plastic or resin(?). My best carpenter's sq. is a Stanley SS one with, again, machined edges.


Cool, thanks - I have a 5' Stanley aluminum level and a 2' stanley aluminum I'm now going to use as straight edges thanks to you

I kept thinking I would never get a straight edge unless I bought one of those woodpecker straight edge things 

Glad I can save the money - thanks for the link also


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

Hi Jessie. Just in case you need more to think about in regards to your router table, check this post out: wanted-pictures-your-router-table.html
I don't think Harry (Old-Chipper) could have envisioned it, but it's got over 1,000 replies, and almost 375,000 views!!  Take a stroll thru it, should keep you busy for a couple of days. 

I agree with others, build your own. It's not rocket science, and if you somehow mess it up, it's only wood... the store has lots more. You mentioned "one of those woodpecker straight edge things " in your last response. While it may be a great product, I personally don't think it's necessary. Keep it simple, at least in the beginning. As has been mentioned, a piece of plywood with a hole in it and a 2x4 fence with a couple of c-clamps has created beautiful pieces of work. Later, as your experience and needs grow, upgrade what you feel you need to.


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

BrianS said:


> Hi Jessie. Just in case you need more to think about in regards to your router table, check this post out: wanted-pictures-your-router-table.html
> I don't think Harry (Old-Chipper) could have envisioned it, but it's got over 1,000 replies, and almost 375,000 views!!  Take a stroll thru it, should keep you busy for a couple of days.
> 
> I agree with others, build your own. It's not rocket science, and if you somehow mess it up, it's only wood... the store has lots more. You mentioned "one of those woodpecker straight edge things " in your last response. While it may be a great product, I personally don't think it's necessary. Keep it simple, at least in the beginning. As has been mentioned, a piece of plywood with a hole in it and a 2x4 fence with a couple of c-clamps has created beautiful pieces of work. Later, as your experience and needs grow, upgrade what you feel you need to.


Thanks Brian,

Yah I have that thread bookmarked and have been ogling through it! Some really nice work there - far beyond my abilities.

Not sure about the build anymore. 

I've been working on drawers for my benches and a few carts I made, and have screwed them up 3 times now.

For what ever reason drawers are beyond my ability no matter what method I try 

So I'm more than likely going to buy one of the Bosch bench tops and build a rolling cart which I've had great success at building so far and just put shelves in all my carts and benches

Also, I tried the plywood with a hole, but everyone said it was too dangerous since the bit doesn't extend high enough through the hole.

So not knowing anything, it looks best for me to buy something and not worry about next year or the year after


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

newbie2wood said:


> Also, I tried the plywood with a hole, but everyone said it was too dangerous since the bit doesn't extend high enough through the hole.


No, not everyone said that, I know I didn't. And if you go back to post 26 and look at my homemade table, there's a bit sticking thru the hole in the plywood plate, and it can go even higher. I've use this particular table for over five years with absolutely no issues or problems. The first time I ever used a router table, I borrowed one. Didn't exactly thrill me, so built my first table - with a plywood top. Built the second one when the first no longer met my needs. Same with the third, and fourth. Can't remember if this is the fourth, or fifth, I've made. The only way I will ever own a store bought router table is if someone gives me one, and then I'll sell it as fast as I can. My table may look a bit rude and crude, but it is level, very sturdy, cost very little to make, took less than a day to make, it does exactly what I want it for, and does it well. Right now I'm considering whether to build another to replace it - it could use a larger/longer top - or just lengthen it a bit, i'm thinking lengthen it. But it does do the job, so may just leave as is for awhile more, time will tell.


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## newbie2wood (Apr 22, 2016)

JOAT said:


> No, not everyone said that, I know I didn't. And if you go back to post 26 and look at my homemade table, there's a bit sticking thru the hole in the plywood plate, and it can go even higher.


Thanks Theo,

I'm referring to this thread I started about my router table that I bought and one I made:
http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/93042-newbie-question-bit-height-problem.html

If you look at the first 3 posts you'll see my description - most of the thread was about the HF router table, but in the beginning my home made router table had the same problem.

Every seemed to feel that because my bit didn't extend high enough through the hole (I didn't use a plate on my home made one) and I had not seated it all the way down, that it was too dangerous to use.

Thanks for the advice


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## Edgar1985 (Nov 5, 2018)

I have been using the Bosch router table for several years now. I reviewed the new router tables for all who need it.
Good luck!):grin:


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## Edgar1985 (Nov 5, 2018)

Forgot add the link from my review: https://mentoolbox.com/bosch-ra1171-vs-ra1181-vs-kreg-prs2100/


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

newbie2wood said:


> Thanks Theo,
> 
> I'm referring to this thread I started about my router table that I bought and one I made:
> https://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/93042-newbie-question-bit-height-problem.html
> ...


On my first router table I used a 16mm piece of MDF for the top and had the same problem with my Bosch POF 1200 ACE router, I couldn't get enough height at times. The router bits just didn't extend far enough.

On my latest table I purchased a Makita M3600G which gives an extra 4mm of height for a start, then I made the top of three sheets of 12mm MDF, I cut out the shape of the base of the Makita in the middle and bottom sheet, with the hole for the bits in the top piece. Then I got some 12mm gal steel bar and cut two pieces 8" long and fed them through the guide slots in the Makita. I routed two slots in the middle piece of MDF so the steel bar would fit in them. I'm not taking this router out of the table again unless it breaks down, I can take it out by removing all the screws in the top sheet. 

The beauty of this is with the cross member supports on the table frame the weight of the router can't pull the top down, and the top is 36mm thick with only 12mm thickness where the bit comes through, and with the extra 4mm the Makita has I only sacrifice 8mm. I have had no problems at all with height with this table and can insert the bits in the collet the required distance. 

I will take some pictures of my new revised table as soon as I can.


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