# Heads up - Penn State Industries



## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

While it is not my usual nature to rant, I wanted to warn folks about Penn State Industries business practice that has me, well, not so happy at the moment. I had a friend request a custom pen to be made for his brother as a Christmas prezzie; he is leaving for the UK today for the holidays. I placed the order with PSI Tuesday of last week and assured my friend that the order would arrive in time and if not I would ship to the UK for him. Credit card was charged Tuesday afternoon and I was thrilled that I was getting such good service...but hold on, there is more. Friday I received an email indicating the order was shipped. OK, a little confused why my card was charged on Tuesday for a Friday shipment, but figured I'd still get the order in time. I had already turned the blank and only needed the kit for assembly. Well, the USPS ping ponged the package back and forth between PA and NJ :blink: and the package arrived yesterday. Yay, I'll be able to deliver the pen in time for my friends UK departure! NOT!:bad: Everything I ordered was there, except the kit I was waiting on. Poo, wtf, and other explicatives were uttered (or thought). The paper invoice in the package was the only indication that the item was out of stock...and no estimate of delivery. The website did not indicate out of stock. The order confirmation email did not indicate out of stock. The shipping notice did not indicate partial shipment. And, the grand finale, my credit card was charged the full amount, and well ahead of a PARTIAL shipment. If I had known in advance I could have pursued other avenues to acquire the kit, but as of now I do not even know if it will hit my doorstep by Christmas, much less my friend's. :sad:
I don't know if this is their normal business practice, but I have emailed them expressing my disappointment and inquiring when I should expect to receive the items I paid for. The email confirmation I received did contain these phrases which leads me to believe somebody screwed up, but dunno. "your credit card is NOT charged until we process your order" (emphasis theirs), and "backordered items will be billed and shipped when available".
My main intent here is just to warn you, if you do order from this company, expect to be charged ahead of shipment, and be prepared for incomplete shipments without warning or explanation. I have ordered from Woodcraft, Arizona Silhouettes, and Craft USA, and a few other pen suppliers and not encountered any issues like this...if items are out of stock either the website is clear on the matter or the order confirmation spells it out. If I get a response from PSI I will post it here in the spirit of full disclosure. Thanks for listening. I feel better now.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Frank,

Generally PSI does a pretty good job. I have placed many orders with them over the years and have had only one mishap. I ordered a turning tool and they sent me the wrong one. When I received it I picked up the phone and called them. They promptly sent me the correct one and told me I could keep the wrong one for my troubles. I figured that was fair enough :dance3:


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## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

Well Bob, I am glad to hear that. Maybe I am overreacting due to the urgency of the situation, but I think precharging the customer before you can make good on the transaction is just asking for trouble. The only thing I have that indicates they still owe me is a piece of paper. The online order status shows "Shipped". It's just a little uncomfortable wondering if they will come through with the rest of the order...but we'll see. Based on your feedback I will keep the faith and wait patiently.


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## BernieW (Sep 12, 2006)

Well Frank I guess I am not the only one that has had this problem. I placed a order with them for some pen kits and blanks. Half of the pen kits and some of the blanks were backordered. 4 months later (yes you read right) I got my pen blanks after several e-mails and yes my CC was charged for the whole order. Another time I ordered a collet chuck, 2 super drive centers and a tailstock chuck adaptor. Again my CC was charged for the whole order and didn't receive the tailstock chuck adaptor for 3 months and 11 days. After several e-mails and phone calls the lady on the other end said well you will have to take it or leave it. She said it is not their policy to give warning or a explaination about out of stock pieces. That was my last order.:angry: I do a lot of pen ordering from Ernie at Bear Tooth Woods, Woodcraft, Packard Woodworks and Craft Supply. I can honestly say I have never had a screw up from any of these.


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## Gap_308 (May 2, 2009)

Strange that in a bad economy some companies just dont step up. Maybe thats why some close down for good and others stay late to get the job done. The companies that dont make good on promises will never see my money, we've all been had at one time or another, and we dont go back. One reef aquarium supply place I order from includes a hand written thank you card eveytime and an email to make sure Im happy. The owner answers the phone himself, even after hours. In turn I loyally buy everything from him. Respect is earned not given.

ReefGeek > Contact Us

read the line under the hours.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Frank I've notice this to at PSI. I was looking for transmissions for a atlas pen so I called them and rather treated rudely. Because one I didn't buy the kit from them and was told they aren't a parts for pens carrier so I said that you sell the transmissions for the slims and assumed they would sell them for a atlas pen. So I shall not do so much business with them like I did in the past. But I have to say I never encountered the problem you have been put threw. If I did it would be the end of them with me. I deal with Ernie also from bear tooth woods, wood turningz, wood crafter and wood turners catalog all great places to deal with.


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## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

Well I thank you all for the feedback. I am not one to say, "never", but I think I will reconsider using this supplier in the future, especially when time is of the essence. It's a shame they don't work on their customer service, they do sell some nice quality stuff. But I don't see how they can survive if they keep treating their customers so rudely. There are other good suppliers and any viable business should be aware of that.
I have not heard back yet on my inquiry...I suspect it may be after the holidays before I get an answer, and based on Bernie's experience, I am not expecting delivery any time soon, but we'll see.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

I've used PSI a few times for both pen kits and tools. In both cases my card showed the charge the next business day after ordering but it was a few more days before a tracking number was generated. And looking at the tracking history the package was indeed sent a few days after my CC was charged.

I wonder how they define "shipped". It could be that they define something as "shipped" when the order is transmitted to the warehouse (even if this transmission is instantaneous to the order completion). What happens in the warehouse, stays in the warehouse apparently... 

Its my understanding that MLCS and PennState are the same or sister companies. I've ordered from MLCS and had absolutely no issues. 

And I have had a good customer service experience with them. I bought a used PSI Turncrafter Pro and after a little rebuilding it worked great. Except the belt snapped (discovered that it was on backwards, came to me that way and I should have checked but didn't). I couldn't find the part number on-line to order but after a quick phone call they set me up with some replacement belts.

And in closing, if you are interested in the PSI kits I suggest you check with Wood-n-Whimsies (Wood-N-Whimsies). They are a PSI kit reseller and have in stock (usually) most of the "popular" kits. They say they can order anything else. Typically, their prices for a single PSI kit are the same as the first discount quantity price at PSI.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

"Shipped" means, it's out their door and on the way to you. Many, if not all companies will charge your CC prior to shipping, they until the CC company acknowledges the charge. If it's ok, then they ship. Sometimes, CC's refuse to accept a charge.

I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties with PSI. I usually give a company a second "try". If they fail, then they become a "no purchase" from them in my book. Since you have invoice, if you have a scanner, enclose it in your next email with them. If you don't get a response or you receive a rude one, inform them you're contacting the BBB. (Better Business Bureau). This will roll some heads there. I'd give them until after Christmas, if you've heard nothing from them, then contact them.


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## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

Hamlin said:


> "Shipped" means, it's out their door and on the way to you. Many, if not all companies will charge your CC prior to shipping, they until the CC company acknowledges the charge. If it's ok, then they ship. Sometimes, CC's refuse to accept a charge.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties with PSI. I usually give a company a second "try". If they fail, then they become a "no purchase" from them in my book. Since you have invoice, if you have a scanner, enclose it in your next email with them. If you don't get a response or you receive a rude one, inform them you're contacting the BBB. (Better Business Bureau). This will roll some heads there. I'd give them until after Christmas, if you've heard nothing from them, then contact them.


Ken, that is sound advice and I am content to wait and see what happens. It was not a big order, but I am a bit surprised at the business practice as apparently this has happened to others as well. To be clear, I have little to no issue with being charged for items ahead of shipping so long as that entails a commitment to deliver said items in THAT shipment. That is not the case here. They are collecting payment for items they do not have and I'm pretty sure that may be illegal, and if not, not a very good business practice. At a minimum I prefer to be informed ahead of physical delivery that the shipment is partial. I hope I don't come across as unreasonable. I may place orders again in the future, but if so, will do so more cautiously, and with lower expectations. 

Rob, I have heard of WoodNWhimsies, but have not yet checked them out. I appreciate the tip.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Frank,

You're NOT being unreasonable. They should have notified you one way or another. That's just good business sense, especially if, they wish to have repeat customers. This is how they make their money. 

Right now, the best advice is, wait until after the "Holiday Season" is over. If you haven't heard or received anything from them by say, a week into the new yr. Contact them again. Ask them to explain their "CC" charging system again, then ask to see if you could FAX them a copy of your shipping invoice showing the charges that they applied. If they can't or get rude, again, I'd inform them that you will be in contact with the BBB. This will either "light a fire" under them or you will get reimbursed for the items you've yet to receive. Sometimes, these companies, if you give them an inch, they'll attempt to take a mile.

As I've said many times before in the past, I'll give a company a second chance but, when they fail, I'll no longer do business with them and I'll pass that info onto my friends as well. Word of mouth goes a long ways.


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## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

I got the following response from the general manager of PSI:
_Dear Frank,

Due to a huge holiday volume we process hundreds of orders a day this time of year. While nearly all orders are processed on time with no problems, sometimes an order falls through the cracks when the order is placed at the time an item is running out of stock. Unfortunately your order was one of them. I apologize for our CSR team not notifying you about the problem with your order - however my intention is to make it right. Call Kathy, our customer service manager and advise her of the item that was backordered - I will try to have her locate the item for you to get it before XMAS or issue you a credit if it is not available. You (or any customers) are not charged for shilpping backorders (leftover from a previous order).

I make every effort to offer a robust selection of items with plenty of inventory to handle orders from our pen turning friends at all times and especially during holiday periods and i'm sincerely sorry that these efforts did not work out for you this year.

Feel free contact me directly to assist you if you are not satisfied with our products, CSR technical staff or order processing.

Sincerely,
Ed Levy
VP and GM
[email protected]
Penn State Industries _

This was actually posted to a thread I started on the IAP. Since he has come out in public and expressed a desire to make it right, I will respect that and see if we can't work this out. Pretty big of the guy I think...he could have just had one of his "flunkies" reply to my email. I suspect their inventory control could not keep up with the volume of orders and created a window where I was permitted to place an order which was out of stock. But, ya know, I work in IT and I know in this day and age that window can be pretty small or non existent....with the right system. But I digress...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Frank,

I work at a DC, (Distribution Center), I know a little of what he speaks. At peak times, it can be very difficult to keep up with the "demand". 

At least, he came forward to take corrective steps. Hopefully, this is and will be a one time incident with them for you.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

dustmaker said:


> Call Kathy, our customer service manager


Kathy is who I spoke with when trying to find the belt for my Turncrafter Pro lathe. She was very helpful.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Frank or anyone that has a problem. Tell them you belong to forums it does help many a time because they don't want the bad publicity.


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## drasbell (Feb 6, 2009)

Glenmore said:


> Frank or anyone that has a problem. Tell them you belong to forums it does help many a time because they don't want the bad publicity.


I placed orders with psi and was quite satisfied that every thing would be OK then I find this link moments after placing my order, To be honest if I seen it before ordering I would have gone to a different place, but reading what glenmore posted I sent the link to PSI for their management to read, I got a very nice reply back stating that they have fixed their shipping dept.
needles to stay my order came through with out a hitch and everything intact, like its supposed to be,
I'm sure when supplies are needed I will use this business over & over & over

this is the first response from them 


Hello,

This is an automated response to your online order. 

The totals (including shipping charges) reflected in this response will be reviewed by our customer service department prior to processing. Note that your credit card is NOT charged until we process your order in our office the same or next business day (Monday if the order was placed over the weekend.) If there are any errors or inconsistencies on your order (other than application of our 7.50 minimum shipping charge,) we will contact you via phone and/or email.

Shipping fees on all orders, including web specials, are only applicable to the contiguous United States (excluding Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico and foreign countries - i.e. Canada etc.) These shipping fees are subject to a minimum of $7.50 and may be added to your order if not shown in this confirmation. We will call or email you if your order includes any FOB Philadelphia or items that have additional shipping charges not noted on our site.

In-stock items will be shipped as soon as possible, typically within a week and backordered items will be billed and shipped when available.

You will get an email confirmation when your order ships - you will be able to track your package from the email. You can also track your package from our website using the Order Number below.


Thank you very much,
Penn State Industries


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## Tommyt654 (Apr 5, 2009)

I think we should all get used to these poor business practices, Its the ways things are done now in Corporate American Greed. And they wonder why businesses fail in tough times it because of these type of dealings. I,ll not buy from them period after learning of this. I have had dealings with other woodworking firms that tryed the same thing and I cancelled my orders and asked for an immediate refund and voiced my dissapointment with their Co. If more people would do the same we would see less of this type of embarassing type of business dealings, Off with their heads I say.


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## dustmaker (May 18, 2009)

Just to complete the story...
I did get the rest of my order...I got a shipping notice in my email and it showed up the day after Christmas. They never answered any of my emails inquiring what to expect and I was charged for the entire order from the beginning. It was not a large order so I was content in waiting it out to see what would happen. Through this experience I have come to understand that their customer service is inconsistent, especially during the holidays and I will just factor that in the future. There are a number of PSI resellers that sell most of the same products with much better service...kind of a no brainer for me. But just to set the record straight...I didn't get ripped off, just a bad experience with poor customer service is all. I would probably feel much different had it been a larger order though!


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Tommy... I refuse to accept these sorts of practices. There's a *reason* why I shop at Lee Valley, Rockler, Incra, WoodPeckers, PeachTree and not at others. I do woodworking because I *enjoy* it and I don't want to associate hassles with it. Yes, you may be able to get a better price elsewhere but the furor of poor service and customer support usually exceeds the incremental cost. I encourage others to consider for themselves if they are at their own proper balance of price vs. performance. 

It may take me a little longer to save up for new things this way, but its worth it to me.

"The pain of price is soon forgotten; the pain of poor service is long remembered." (c) 2010, BigJimAK 



Tommyt654 said:


> I think we should all get used to these poor business practices, Its the ways things are done now in Corporate American Greed.


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## BernieW (Sep 12, 2006)

I must agree with Jim, Tommy and Frank. I will not tolerate a company billing my CC immediately and then not shipping for a week. When I call Customer Service I expect to be helped and get the problem resolved. If not I won't be back. The straw that broke the camels back for me with PSI is not returning my calls, not returning e-mails and the lady on the other end that was rude as h.ll to me. I almost gave her a piece of my mind and it would not have been pretty. Like Frank I never got ripped off but the CS and the time it took to ship stuff set me off.

Tommy they probably won't go under because of their prices being so low and there will always be people that will tolerate the bad business practices of PSI. We are not the only ones complaining as I belong to 6 forums and PSI comes up all the time but again half say they will put up with it because of price. So unless all customers lay down the law and don't go back it won't make a dimes worth of difference.


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## Charlie2U (Jan 11, 2010)

*Had enough also*

I won't go into all the details because it's a long story and could get confuseing to some, but at this time Mr Levy and his company, along with their DC specialist Bill hasn't impressed me at all. From start to finish dealing with them was a hassle, and ended in a huge disapointment.


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