# Group Cyclone Dust Collector Build



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

OK, guys, since there are no projects going on I thought that I would start this for forum discussion.

I built a stand for my new DeWalt 735 planer. I still have two drawers and doors for the front to build, then pop some finish on it to provide some protection. I will then install the infeed/outfeed tables and an iGaging 510 on the planer and remount it to the stand. Hopefully, I will get some “me time” this weekend to finish up, in spite of the heat. 

I’ll admit that I have been putting this chore off.

Now for the discussion:

I will be eventually hooking up an Oneida Dust Deputy to address the dust collection for the 735. Since I have little or no free floor space I will be going up (as opposed to out) with the DD and the old 16 Gallon Craftsman shop vacuum that I will be using.

Now there are several ways to do this. One is to build a roll around cart to stack the shop vac and the DD on. This makes it very portable, light and compact. A good example of this would be the build from Jay’s Customs Creations.

Make a Shopvac and Cyclone Shop Cart | Jays Custom Creations

The down side type of arrangement is the noise from the shop vac. Although not as bad as some, this shop vac can still be annoying and I would prefer to muffle the noise as much as possible. However, in order to accomplish this I will have to build some sort of a cabinet to enclose the vacuum. There are a lot of designs out there (youtube). Some use sound deadening and some use baffles to suppress the sound. Some use a combination of sound deadening and baffles. However, my footprint would increase slightly, the unit would be taller, and it would be heavier and more bulky to move around.

Examples: 


















So, let’s discuss, specific, practical examples of how some of you have or would addressed this issue,

Valid pros and cons on the means and methods of sound suppression.

Source of low cost sound deadening material, if it is used,

Other non-sound deadening solutions designs, etc.,

Just to get juices flowing.

If we can come to a consensus and as a group nail down a design I will undertake to do a step by step photo tutorial and build the unit. 
This will get me the best bang for the buck based on collective experience and hopefully provide some incentives for the newer or less experienced members. 

Here is a photo of what we will be working with for this project.

Bill


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Bill...

just hooked up my 735 a little while back. Hooked up to a 5hp craftsman shopvac. and dust deputy. Between the shop vac and the DD I still get a good bit of chips that do not get collected by the system. The 735 really must push out some volumn because it has blown the top off my DD twice now (PLastic bucket, not a metal container) what a MESS!!  geesh. Looks like the metal can has a positive lock so I think you should be good to go. I'd put a couple of handles on that can to make it easier to tote around after its full. 
I got the HEPA filter for the Craftsman vac. A little more expensive up front, but blowing it clean is alot easier and quicker than the old paper filters. 

I guess its ok to enclose the vac in some kind of housing, but I'd still be leary of heat buildup. 

Most excellent idea on the build and making a tutorial out of it...by its nature alone I think this might generate alot of interest...


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Bill, interesting timing on this thread - I'm interested in seeing some of the responses. About a year ago, I built a setup as you described (vacuum over shop-made cyclone) on a open 2 tier wheeled cart (specifically built because of my DW735, I just disconnect the vacuum when connected to the planer). You are correct on the noise irritation - I used to cringe turning it on for a quick cut. I had a noise dampening enclosure project on the books for a while. I finally gave up on it because I couldn't justify the sound proofing material I could find, or afford the additional foot print I thought it might take. And I wasn't sure about the potential heat build-up or minimum air circulation required. I caved and upgraded my old Rigid shop vac to a quieter Rigid. Much better but I'd still prefer less noise.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I am sort of doing something similar. I am planning to build some type of rolling cart. I wanted to go vertical rather than side by side for save a bit of space. I have a 20g fiber drum, a ridgid shop vac and of course the Dust Deputy. I am trying to figure out how best to plumb it using as much pvc pipe as possible for a smoother air flow. The Dust Deputy has 2" outlets, the shop vac as 2 1/2". Does anyone know if it works better to go down 1/2" to 2 inches or up to 3" for the pvc piping ? I have no background in air flow. 


Gary


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Bill...
> 
> The 735 really must push out some volumn because it has blown the top off my DD twice now (PLastic bucket, not a metal container) what a MESS!!  geesh. Looks like the metal can has a positive lock so I think you should be good to go. I'd put a couple of handles on that can to make it easier to tote around after its full.


I had the same problem. I used a 20gal plastic bucket which was a bad idea because it didn't have the structure to not partially collapse under vacuum. I built an internal "rib cage" out of a spiral length of 1/2in PEX - fixed that problem. Regarding blowing the lid off - had that problem too. Fixed that with a couple 2x4 lengths that I wedge between the cyclone top and the shelf support above where the vacuum resides..


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Bill...
> 
> just hooked up my 735 a little while back. Hooked up to a 5hp craftsman shopvac. and dust deputy. Between the shop vac and the DD I still get a good bit of chips that do not get collected by the system. The 735 really must push out some volumn because it has blown the top off my DD twice now (PLastic bucket, not a metal container) what a MESS!!  geesh. Looks like the metal can has a positive lock so I think you should be good to go. I'd put a couple of handles on that can to make it easier to tote around after its full.
> I got the HEPA filter for the Craftsman vac. A little more expensive up front, but blowing it clean is alot easier and quicker than the old paper filters.
> ...


I guess its ok to enclose the vac in some kind of housing, but I'd still be leary of heat buildup. 

Bill,

I have a HEPA on the SV already. I will be using a 4" to the cyclone and of course a 2-1/2 from the cyclone to the shop vac.

My main goal is portability with sound suppression being the secondary goal. Since I will be building something anyway, I thought I could incorporate some of the groups ideas. 

Some of the less experienced folks can follow along and hopefully learn. The cyclone set-up, as you know, is portable and can be used on any piece of equipment. I just so happen to be dealing with the 735. 

See Bill, you just contributed: heat build up will be a concern and maybe as a group we can come up with a solution to the problem.

Bill


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Given that the planer, and other machines are pretty loud to begin with, will the shop vac make much difference ? I usually wear noise reducing headphones as it is. They are hot, but I figure the -34 DB reduction is worth sweating over.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

All thickness planers produce a tremendous amount of debris. I do not use a separator on mine; I use it outside and just empty the bag as needed.

I prefer the small 5 gallon bucket style separators since they are so easy to empty.

I always use hearing protection when running the thickness planer and dust collector.


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Agreed on hearing protection for the planer - I always use them myself but for a couple passes on the router table or the jointer (which is the quietest machine I have), the shop vac destroys the Zen of the moment. And Mike, I must be using the planer wrong ... I can easily dump my 20gal cyclone bucket 3 times in a session and I know when it gets full, the chips start coming out of the open exhaust which I direct to another trash can (and always run it outside)


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Given that the planer, and other machines are pretty loud to begin with, will the shop vac make much difference ? I usually wear noise reducing headphones as it is. They are hot, but I figure the -34 DB reduction is worth sweating over.


Point well taken, however, I would be using it for other equipment, also. The 735 is just a place holder for the project.

Bill


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

The problem with a shop vac for planers is the chips are fairly large and need good airflow to carry them away. That's why I use a real dust collector for my planer. Planers typically need around 500 CFM but shop vacs only pull in the range of 200 to 250 CFM. For sanding, a shop vac is fine but it simply doesn't have enough air flow for planers.

I'd think the 735 blower helps but you are stuck with a 2.5" pipe which kills the flow. You are almost better not using a shop vac with the planer and just making a box or bag to blow the chips into. Planers generally don't make much in the way of small dust particles so they don't need sub micron filtration.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

PhilBa said:


> The problem with a shop vac for planers is the chips are fairly large and need good airflow to carry them away. That's why I use a real dust collector for my planer. Planers typically need around 500 CFM but shop vacs only pull in the range of 200 to 250 CFM. For sanding, a shop vac is fine but it simply doesn't have enough air flow for planers.
> 
> I'd think the 735 blower helps but you are stuck with a 2.5" pipe which kills the flow. You are almost better not using a shop vac with the planer and just making a box or bag to blow the chips into. Planers generally don't make much in the way of small dust particles so they don't need sub micron filtration.


Phil,

Points well taken, Mike Stringer has made the same point in the past.

I am not restricted to a 2-1/2 hose. I will be running a 4" from the planer to the DD. I will be limited to a 2-1/2 from the DD to the SV. However, the hose will be clear, so, blockages will be readily evident. Plus, my understanding is that the 735 has a wicked blower.

I don't have any experience with the 735 yet, so I don't quite know what the actual conditions will be.

The unit won't just be used on the Dewalt; it will also do duty with my jointer, router table, drill press, miter saw, et. al.

Everyone, please don't get hung up on me doing this for my 735. The intent is to build a small general purpose cyclone that anyone can use on anything in a small shop. Not everyone can have a full sized DC. 

So, the exercise to to design and build a functional small cyclone that anyone can do and use in their shop.

Bill


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mark, I have no idea where you got the impression you were doing anything wrong. I mentioned the way I choose to work and my preference for the 5 gallon separators. This is why they make two kinds of ice cream... to each his own. I had a 55 gallon cardboard drum with a dust collector on it. It was a pain to empty so I sold it.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> I am sort of doing something similar. I am planning to build some type of rolling cart. I wanted to go vertical rather than side by side for save a bit of space. I have a 20g fiber drum, a ridgid shop vac and of course the Dust Deputy. I am trying to figure out how best to plumb it using as much pvc pipe as possible for a smoother air flow. The Dust Deputy has 2" outlets, the shop vac as 2 1/2". Does anyone know if it works better to go down 1/2" to 2 inches or up to 3" for the pvc piping ? I have no background in air flow.
> 
> 
> Gary


Gary,

Basically, Bernoulli's Law states, that, for a given volume of flow the larger the pipe the slower the flow. If you reduce the size of the pipe you increase the velocity of the same flow.

Sometimes this can work for you or against you depending on the circumstances. The Dewalt 735 has a four inch dust connection port, BUT, it squeezes down to around 2-1/2". It, also, has an internal fan that shoots the debris out of the unit. In the case of the DD the volume of the debris may be too much and have a tendency to "log jam" at the DD intake. However, add a 4" and you now slow down the velocity and gives the debris time to spread out before it squeeze back down and get sucked into the DD port.

Once you separate out the chips and the rest of the big stuff, theoretically, only fine dust exits out of the DD to the shop vacuum cleaner. No concern for "log jam" here.

So, theoretically, you want a larger inlet based on this. I would use the 3" or even go up to 4". Be aware, there may be a case of diminish returns here. 

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Given that the planer, and other machines are pretty loud to begin with, will the shop vac make much difference ? I usually wear noise reducing headphones as it is. They are hot, but I figure the -34 DB reduction is worth sweating over.


Ear protection is a given for a planer, unless you have a helical which can be significantly quieter then knives.

I wear at a minimum during any machinery operations; hearing and eye protection, and respiratory as required.

Bill


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Bill thanks for getting this discussion going,as most of our members that need small units,don't have room for a full sized one like I have, but need something that works.
The other discussion got sidetracked on static E,and beat that horse to a pulp. When it should have covered air flows ,duct sizes, cyclones,filters, fan sizes and motor hp.etc. 
Herb


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Bill thanks for getting this discussion going,as most of our members that need small units,don't have room for a full sized one like I have, but need something that works.
> The other discussion got sidetracked on static E,and beat that horse to a pulp. When it should have covered air flows ,duct sizes, cyclones,filters, fan sizes and motor hp.etc.
> Herb


Herb,

No matter what you do, it'll get side tracked. But, that's OK. If someone has a question we should be trying to answer it. You can always guide the conversation back to the focus.

The main focus is to come up with a viable plan, implement it, and show some folks, who may hesitate to tackle a project like this, that they can succeed.

Bill


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Let me see if I can be a little more constructive than my previous posts. Here’s some content to discuss design decisions and perhaps what not to do. This is my current setup (currently attached to a gated line for the RT and Jointer). I should also mention I run a PowerJet air filtration unit hung from the ceiling which takes care of all of the fine stuff rather quickly so I’m not too concerned with the 2.5” shop-vac vs. 4” DC disadvantages. I didn’t see a need to go any larger on ducting than the 2.5” diameter – the shop vac is the limiting device. The cyclone is based on the Thien separator (J. Phil Thien's Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle).

If I were to attempt to sound proof this setup, the frame would need to be rebuilt to about 2.5’ square to support any panels. I would only worry about boxing in the top half for the vacuum. In fact I might go with an open concept (to least restrict airflow) and put some sort of sound absorbing panels opposite the motor (top) and vacuum (back) exhaust. I’ve read that the $12 noise cancelling baffle device for the vacuum exhaust by this vendor is not really all that effective. I thought about using rigid insulation on panels for sound deadening, but some research seemed to indicate that it wouldn’t provide that much noise cancelling. The real material needed seamed pricey. Perhaps the answer is an electronic active noise cancelling device – it should work well, the noise is constant.

*Pros:*
1.	The gray separator bucket is large but sometimes I wish it were larger for the planer. It fills quickly with that type of job.
2.	The bottom / open location for the separator seems ideal, it slides out easily for dumping. Once the bucket is out of the rack, the plywood lid lifts off with the lines intact.
3.	Access to the shop vac connection is easy. This turns out to be critical. I can just drop that line into another bucket or on the ground for use with the planer. As mentioned earlier, the shop vac can’t keep up with the DW735 blower. This is not real dust problem; the separator captures a lot more than you would think.
4.	As configured, I can attach vacuum accessories to the separator input hose and use it for all my general purpose cleaning. I hardly ever check the vacuum filter or dump the vac.
5.	As a bonus, the recently upgraded shop vac provided me with all the proper hose and connections to use with the router (finally).

*Cons:*
1.	The plastic bucket (unmodified) is was not rigid enough to resist the vacuum. It would deform. Go with metal.
2.	All the plastic tends to accumulate enough static to be a fine dust magnet. I haven’t tried any anti-static spray or grounding techniques yet.
3.	It’s a source of unwanted noise – I don’t run it continuously as someone might a DC system.
4.	It’s messy looking but functional – the frame in the back doubles as a pull handle
5.	The plastic casters that I used are too small – go one size larger, it will roll better. No locking feature to these – it hasn’t been a problem.
6.	The frame was designed for minimum profile. I would have to rebuild it if I wanted to box in the shop-vac


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks Bill ! My question was sort of caused by walking around home depot for an hour today trying to figure out how to hook all this stuff up. It seemed like there was always something I couldn't get so as to make everything work together. I had checked Amazon. didn't come up with anything. I did see a place that had 2 1/2" clear pvc pipes, but there were something like $73 for 8'. I really don't want to spend that much for something like that. lol. Anyway I am going to wind up with 2 dust collection systems. The shop vac for the smaller tools, and a 1.5 HP Jet 1100 cfm for the larger stuff. Just working on the shop vac powered one first, then I will tackle the larger one. So...again, thanks for the help 

Gary


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mark, do you use the pre filter bags in your vacuum?


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

If you want to know about Dust Collection read Dust Collection Research - Home


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

Mike said:


> Mark, do you use the pre filter bags in your vacuum?


No, I haven't found the need to. Surprisingly alot of stuff drops out in the separator particularly if used with wood chips / sawdust and any of the power tool hookups. I may check the vacuum filter every 5 empties of the separator - a little more frequently if I'm just vacuuming dust off the floor.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

A couple of points and my approach.

Bernouli's law does say that you should see a speedup. However, you aren't starting with much CFM to begin with and, more importantly, resistive losses in the small pipe will drop your CFM a lot.

You are only going to get so much flow through a 2.5" pipe no matter what you start with. 

If you follow the bernouli implications, pulling 250 cfm though a cyclone separator and then pulling that through a 4" pipe means you are losing CFM like mad.

Here's my sanding dust extractor cart. Uses a small shop vac, hepa filter, thien baffle based separator and an iVac switch. The vac is elevated to minimize piping losses. Works pretty well. I'm quite sure that my set up would not work very well for a TS, jointer or planer. Might work for a band saw. It is mediocre on my 10" SCMS but it does work great for anything that makes fairly fine dust - RO Sanders, table top sanders, routers and others.

By the way, I thought about punching a hole in the bottom of the shop vac and just sitting it on the out-take hole of the separator - would make a very compact unit.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

I build my own Dust Deputy cart inspired by all of the YouTube video I watched. I won't take credit for the ideas or the concepts but I did put my own design into it. That's the fun of it.

I don't have a planer but I did build an enclosure (looks like a cube) for an older Ridgid vac. I use sound deadening material I bought from Home Depot, 4' x 8' sheets
that I cut down to fit inside the enclosure. These sheets were about $10.00 each and I only need a couple.
The vac sits on a shelf elevated a couple inches above the bottom and used a 1" hole saw and made several holes in the shelf for the exhaust to run
under the shelf and out the back. On the back and under the shelf I drilled more holes for the exhaust. A hole for the vacuum intake was also needed, naturally.

My enclosure was made is made of 1/2" MDF and it sits on a furniture dolly I bought from Harbor Freight. Also on that dolly on one end is the 30 gallon blue plastic barrow
for the saw dust and on top of that is the dust deputy. I think I have only 1"7/8" hose coming from my vac so adapting wasn't too big of a deal for me. The 1 1/2" PVC elbows
worked with just a little bit of heat gun heat to soften them up before pushing them on the DD.

The wheels of the dolly tend to want to roll down hill if I get too close to the floor drain so I have to watch out for that because I don't want it crashing into my Goldwing.
I use this system mostly for my table saw and general vacuuming of the garage and with the 10' flexible hose and From the Ridgid shop vac hose kit I also bought my clean up
has become much easier. I no-longer have to put on my hot Dewalt ear muff hearing protection as my vac is much quieter.
What I don't like is the amount of room this unit takes up so I'm really looking forward to next Spring building that garage out back to hold all of this other stuff that's in the way.

I forgot to mention, others commenting about the heat build up of the vacuum, well I don't know if that is happening or not. My old vac has been working well for a while and I haven't notice the exhaust air getting hot so I haven't worried about it. That's why I used an old vac to see if there would be an issue. It always stays in the box.

Good luck and have fun with your build.

Bryan


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> Let me see if I can be a little more constructive than my previous posts. Here’s some content to discuss design decisions and perhaps what not to do. This is my current setup (currently attached to a gated line for the RT and Jointer). I should also mention I run a PowerJet air filtration unit hung from the ceiling which takes care of all of the fine stuff rather quickly so I’m not too concerned with the 2.5” shop-vac vs. 4” DC disadvantages. I didn’t see a need to go any larger on ducting than the 2.5” diameter – the shop vac is the limiting device. The cyclone is based on the Thien separator (J. Phil Thien's Cyclone Separator Lid w/ the Thien Cyclone Separator Baffle).
> 
> If I were to attempt to sound proof this setup, the frame would need to be rebuilt to about 2.5’ square to support any panels. I would only worry about boxing in the top half for the vacuum. In fact I might go with an open concept (to least restrict airflow) and put some sort of sound absorbing panels opposite the motor (top) and vacuum (back) exhaust. I’ve read that the $12 noise cancelling baffle device for the vacuum exhaust by this vendor is not really all that effective. I thought about using rigid insulation on panels for sound deadening, but some research seemed to indicate that it wouldn’t provide that much noise cancelling. The real material needed seamed pricey. Perhaps the answer is an electronic active noise cancelling device – it should work well, the noise is constant.
> 
> ...


Good info, thanks, Mark.

So, do I understand that you are running a DW735 with a 2.5" hose with no problems?

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I build my own Dust Deputy cart inspired by all of the YouTube video I watched. I won't take credit for the ideas or the concepts but I did put my own design into it. That's the fun of it.
> 
> I don't have a planer but I did build an enclosure (looks like a cube) for an older Ridgid vac. I use sound deadening material I bought from Home Depot, 4' x 8' sheets
> that I cut down to fit inside the enclosure. These sheets were about $10.00 each and I only need a couple.
> ...


Bryan,

Do you have a photo of the set-up that you can post

Bill?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

woodie26 said:


> If you want to know about Dust Collection read Dust Collection Research - Home


Woodie,

Great info and a lot of it there. I have read through it in the past and although it has some very good info, it is geared towards the larger DC's moving higher volume's of air.

For a larger stationary DC system it is a must read. Especially, the sizing of the duct work.

If anyone hasn't at least glanced at this info, take a few minutes to at least skim the info. It will not be wasted time.

Bill


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Good info, thanks, Mark.
> 
> So, do I understand that you are running a DW735 with a 2.5" hose with no problems?
> 
> Bill


Yes, the 2.5" clear flex hose straight into the seprator, no vacuum. There is a 4" collar on the DW735 but it isn't fully active, just a convenient adapter I think.

Oh yeah, and it will blow the lid off the separator if not fastened on tight ... bungee cords won't do it


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> Yes, the 2.5" clear flex hose straight into the seprator, no vacuum. There is a 4" collar on the DW735 but it isn't fully active, just a convenient adapter I think.
> 
> Oh yeah, and it will blow the lid off the separator if not fastened on tight ... bungee cords won't do it


This totally validates an earlier comment by Bill (TwoSkies57). That info will help me when I use the 735.

Your absolutely right about the 4" collar. It really is a 2-1/2" outlet only.

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

bryansong said:


> I build my own Dust Deputy cart inspired by all of the YouTube video I watched. I won't take credit for the ideas or the concepts but I did put my own design into it. That's the fun of it.
> 
> I don't have a planer but I did build an enclosure (looks like a cube) for an older Ridgid vac. I use sound deadening material I bought from Home Depot, 4' x 8' sheets
> that I cut down to fit inside the enclosure. These sheets were about $10.00 each and I only need a couple.
> ...


Bryan, 

I can't say this enough..."the story is no good without pictures" Nobody cares how rough it looks. So, how about a photo, so some other folks can see the approach to the issue that you took.

Remember, this isn't about just building a set-up, it is about folks seeing different approaches to solving the problem.

Bill


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

schnewj said:


> Bryan,
> 
> I can't say this enough..."the story is no good without pictures" Nobody cares how rough it looks. So, how about a photo, so some other folks can see the approach to the issue that you took.
> 
> ...


Are you saying my story is no good? I'm crushed!

You have made me feel so guilty now I'll have to take pictures.

I'll work on that.


Bryan


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

I really like the direction you've taken in this thread Bill, sure hope we can stay on track. I'd be particularly interested in seeing options for building a separator with a Thien baffle. I got tired of cleaning the pleats in my vac filter and put some panty hose over the filter. This helped keep the pleats from clogging, but I still had to frequently knock the fines off of the hose. I recently switched to using paper bags which completely eliminated the mess in having to empty and clean out the vacuum. Going to a two stage system should really help cut down on bag changes.

As far as soundproofing the vac, the guy in the 3rd video had a pretty good approach, great idea using carpet padding at a fraction of the cost of anechoic material. I'm not sure it's worth the effort in my shop. For the relatively small amount of time that I'm actually making sawdust, wearing a pair of shooter's muffs isn't a problem.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

OK, TWIST my arm .... this thread will stay on track.... if the mods don't catch it first, pm one of us and we'll make it right


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Ratbob said:


> I really like the direction you've taken in this thread Bill, sure hope we can stay on track. I'd be particularly interested in seeing options for building a separator with a Thien baffle. I got tired of cleaning the pleats in my vac filter and put some panty hose over the filter. This helped keep the pleats from clogging, but I still had to frequently knock the fines off of the hose. I recently switched to using paper bags which completely eliminated the mess in having to empty and clean out the vacuum. Going to a two stage system should really help cut down on bag changes.
> 
> As far as soundproofing the vac, the guy in the 3rd video had a pretty good approach, great idea using carpet padding at a fraction of the cost of anechoic material. I'm not sure it's worth the effort in my shop. For the relatively small amount of time that I'm actually making sawdust, wearing a pair of shooter's muffs isn't a problem.


Jeff,

One of the reasons that I tried to post a variety of approaches was to generate your type of thinking. I didn't want to inject my opinions into the discussion. However, I personally agree that the approach is innovative. Acoustic sound dampening material is ridiculously expensive. The average person has to have cost effective alternatives.

So, I'll ask the group, what have you or what would you use, if you choose to use sound deadening material? 

Bill


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A point many people do not consider is that anything that gets through the vacuum filter goes through the motor. If you are using a HEPA filter you know how expensive they are so anything you can do to prolong the filter and vacuum motor life is worth while. Filter bags are a good idea; for those using a round canister type filter in a vacuum there are small white filter bags that attach over the canister with a large rubber band. Last I checked the HEPA filter for my Craftsman shop vac was about $50, the HEPA filter for the Festool CT26E is $88 and for my Bosch VAC140A is $120. Anything that can be done to prolong the life of these filters seems like a good idea to me. Many brands sell the filter bags in 5 packs; IE.. the Festool package is $38 for 5 bags. I would rather spend the $7.60 cents per bag which makes clean up super easy than to replace the HEPA filter. Since I almost always use a separator the filter bag life is measured in years. Bosch also offers disposable heavy duty plastic bags for cleaning up concrete chips or drywall dust and they cost about $5 each and are sold in 10 packs. When using these bags it is better to use the standard air filter. Food for thought.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Jeff,
> 
> One of the reasons that I tried to post a variety of approaches was to generate your type of thinking. I didn't want to inject my opinions into the discussion. However, I personally agree that the approach is innovative. Acoustic sound dampening material is ridiculously expensive. The average person has to have cost effective alternatives.
> 
> ...


I use HF moving blankets for sound proofing,cheap, 9.00 ea., cut them to size.

Herb


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Good tip Herb.


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I use HF moving blankets for sound proofing,cheap, 9.00 ea., cut them to size.
> 
> Herb


Good suggestion, Herb.

Carpet padding...
Harbor Freight moving blankets...

Anyone else have any alternatives?


----------



## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

this is very interesting as I would like to do something about dust collection also.
Allen


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Allen, reducing your shop clean up time is nice but keeping your lungs healthy is even better. All wood dust is a carcinogen, some types of wood are much worse than others. The many tips provided by all the members are worth including in your shop.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Very interesting and valuable discussion. I noted several comments regarding the 'output" of the 735 and its ability to blow lids off canisters etc. which brought to mind a minor incident I experienced in that regard. 

All of my tools are connected through a 4' movable hose (ceiling mounted and grounded) to a DELTA 50 - 850 dust collector with a 1 micron bag. Because of space constraints I don't have any type of a cyclone system. The maximum overall run then can be in excess of 30'. I set up the 735 and was busily planing several boards when I noticed the shop seemed abnormally dusty. Seems the main hose connecting to the DELTA had come off and the 735 was blowing chips and dust through 30' of pipe and some 12' back across the shop. Indeed a bit of a mess. :surprise:

So be wary when connecting a 735 to small pipes/hoses and shop vacs.


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

JFPNCM said:


> Very interesting and valuable discussion. I noted several comments regarding the 'output" of the 735 and its ability to blow lids off canisters etc. which brought to mind a minor incident I experienced in that regard.
> 
> All of my tools are connected through a 4' movable hose (ceiling mounted and grounded) to a DELTA 50 - 850 dust collector with a 1 micron bag. Because of space constraints I don't have any type of a cyclone system. The maximum overall run then can be in excess of 30'. I set up the 735 and was busily planing several boards when I noticed the shop seemed abnormally dusty. Seems the main hose connecting to the DELTA had come off and the 735 was blowing chips and dust through 30' of pipe and some 12' back across the shop. Indeed a bit of a mess. :surprise:
> 
> So be wary when connecting a 735 to small pipes/hoses and shop vacs.


Jon,

Good data, especially, for me when I hook up the 735. It is interesting, that, the 735 is set up to accept a 4" and a 2-1/2" hose, but the real output is the 2-1/2" outlet. If a 735 can blow chips 30-45 feet on its own, through a 4" hose, that is amazing!

So, I can probably expect that a 10' long 4" hose to the cyclone will not be a problem. In addition, the shop vac should have no problem extracting the fines out of the cyclone no matter what the CFM rate of the vac.

Bill


----------



## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

schnewj said:


> Jon,
> 
> Good data, especially, for me when I hook up the 735. It is interesting, that, the 735 is set up to accept a 4" and a 2-1/2" hose, but the real output is the 2-1/2" outlet. If a 735 can blow chips 30-45 feet on its own, through a 4" hose, that is amazing!
> 
> ...


Bill:

It was indeed amazing. I take very thin cuts on each pass so that may have contributed to the distance as well. 

I know that the 735 will inflate the dust bag on the DELTA to its max, noticeably more so than the DELTA just pulling air by itself.


----------



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Bill:
My DC is a 1 hp Delta attached to my table saw (an older contractor style) but because of the design of the table saw, my DC misses a lot of dust. I built a separator a while ago, based on the popular Thein baffle, and use that to clean up what my DC misses, as well as general cleanup in my basement shop. I don't use any collection on my planer and jointer which sit in the garage - a broom takes care of that but I know that that is not the point of your thread.

I've been dragging my shopvac/separator around for a while and haven't got around to combining the two into one, easily handled cart, so this thread is very timely - thanks for starting the discussion.

I hope you don't mind if I post a couple of pics - they are representative of the basic problem that some others, besides myself, may face.

Vince


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

vchiarelli said:


> I've been dragging my shopvac/separator around for a while and haven't got around to combining the two into one, easily handled cart, so this thread is very timely - thanks for starting the discussion.


Build the cart! I had mine just like yours for a while. Once I built the cart it was like "what was I thinkin?!?". It is so much easier to use.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Bill:
> My DC is a 1 hp Delta attached to my table saw (an older contractor style) but because of the design of the table saw, my DC misses a lot of dust. I built a separator a while ago, based on the popular Thein baffle, and use that to clean up what my DC misses, as well as general cleanup in my basement shop. I don't use any collection on my planer and jointer which sit in the garage - a broom takes care of that but I know that that is not the point of your thread.
> 
> I've been dragging my shopvac/separator around for a while and haven't got around to combining the two into one, easily handled cart, so this thread is very timely - thanks for starting the discussion.
> ...


Vince,

Mind? NOT! It's about time someone posted some photos of their set-ups.

Now, give me (us) some of your thoughts on how you would address the consolidation to make it portable. Would you leave the Shop Vac open and deal with the noise? Would you enclose it to muffle it? How would you go about it? What would work for you?

There is no right or wrong way here. 

Remember, the exercise it to build a cost effective method to consolidate the system and make it portable. So, all thoughts are welcome.

Bill


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

*Pictures of my Dust Deputy enclosure*

Bill,

I'm really not sure how to get my pictures in a post but I did manage to get them to an album if you'd like to look. I hope this link will work, if not you can view my album.

Router Forums - bryansong's Album: Shop Vac & Dust Deputy

http://www.routerforums.com/picture.php?pictureid=2666&albumid=250&dl=1436583678&thumb=1

Bryan


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Good suggestion, Herb.
> 
> Carpet padding...
> Harbor Freight moving blankets...
> ...


I was doing some web surfing and one guy suggested acoustic ceiling tiles. That would, also, be a cheap sound deadening alternative.

Sooooo!

Carpet padding...
Harbor Freight moving blankets...
Acoustic ceiling tiles...
air space between the acoustic tile and cab wall...
sound board...
egg crate mattress pad...

Any other suggestions?

Bill


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

bryansong said:


> Bill,
> 
> I'm really not sure how to get my pictures in a post but I did manage to get them to an album if you'd like to look. I hope this link will work, if not you can view my album.
> 
> ...


Bryan,

OUTSTANDING! Nice hose reals, well laid out and portable.

Are the hose reals convenient? Great idea, but I find short lengths tend to un-spool if they are not restrained! Did you incorporate any type of sound deadening into the cabinet? If so, how?

Would you change anything?

Bill


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> I was doing some web surfing and one guy suggested acoustic ceiling tiles. That would, also, be a cheap sound deadening alternative.
> 
> Sooooo!
> 
> ...


air space between the acoustic tile and cab wall...
sound board..
egg crate matress pad...


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> air space between the acoustic tile and cab wall...
> sound board..
> egg crate matress pad...


Stick, 

I was wondering when you were going to weigh in. Good suggestions. I'll add them to the list.

Bill


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

schnewj said:


> Bryan,
> 
> OUTSTANDING! Nice hose reals, well laid out and portable.
> 
> ...


Thank you Bill.

The hose is part of Ridgid's shop vac hose kit and the orange hose if flexible and not really enough of it that I have to spool too much, mostly I just drape it over. I just wanted to try to make it using my router circle jig and hole saw.

The sound deadening is the Black panel material I mentioned, I got it at Home Depot 4' x 8' sheet and I probably only used a couple. I lined the interior with it. 

I'm sure I'll make a new one some day, what I would change is I'd figure out how to make it shorter. It's taller than the table saw and I have to move it to the side when I'm cutting big material.

That was the first time I opened it to see what was in the vac and the only thing I found in it was some lint, all of my saw dust and dirt are in the barrow. That Dust Deputy works GREAT!

Bryan


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

bryansong said:


> Thank you Bill.
> 
> The hose is part of Ridgid's shop vac hose kit and the orange hose if flexible and not really enough of it that I have to spool too much, mostly I just drape it over. I just wanted to try to make it using my router circle jig and hole saw.
> 
> ...


Looks like it is pretty compact inside. The only way to shorten it is to buy a shorter SV.

Is the compartment underneath baffled? Was the intent to deaden the sound or just to provide ventilation? Was the noise sufficiently lowered, in your opinion, to justify enclosing the SV?

Bill


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

No baffles, just sound deadening. It's pretty quiet and I don't have to wear hearing protection when using just the vac. Yes it was justified.
It's so much quieter now. The vac is a 5HP so it's not the biggest vac but it's a good size.

Bryan


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## Yeoman (May 20, 2013)

Hi, I used to have a DD system that was plumed into my workshop as I found the workshop was too contested to move the collector around. I also found that the input side of the DD clogged up repeatedly when using my planer/thicknesser so I bit the bullet and installed a system based throughout on 4 inch tubing and hose, where needed to get around small direction changes. I made a 16 inch drum and cyclone that sits above the collection barrel, the whole lot is powered by a 2 motor CamVac dust collector, after 4 months use there is about a matchbox full of fine dust in the collector bag, the rest is in the barrel. It is a bit noisy so I put the business end in the storage room at the back of my workshop. I use remote controls to switch the vacuum motors on and of as needed. It took a while but I'm really pleased with the system and would recommend a similar system to anyone, particularly if you thickness wood.

Alex


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## Marv88 (Feb 26, 2009)

I originally built one of the shop notes style carts however I didn't care for it for many reasons so I came up with the design below to suit my wants/needs. I am fortunate enough to also have a full size Super Dust Deputy on a Delta dust collector seen in the background that is plumbed to all of my machines so I only use this for hand held power tools and cleanup.

Contrary to it's appearance it is not tipsy at all and the biggest benefits for me were going from a 5 gallon bucket to a 15 gallon drum so I don't have to empty it as often as well as not having to bend over to plug/unplug the tool from the vacuum. After these pictures I added a boom arm as well as a sander holder and I have found a couple of issues with the design so it is actually evolving a little more this weekend to rectify those issues. 

My solution for making it quieter was to use a Fein vacuum however an option for someone wanting to build something similar without going to that expense would be to just build a box over the motor with foam or baffles etc to make it quieter.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Marv88 said:


> I originally built one of the shop notes style carts however I didn't care for it for many reasons so I came up with the design below to suit my wants/needs. I am fortunate enough to also have a full size Super Dust Deputy on a Delta dust collector seen in the background that is plumbed to all of my machines so I only use this for hand held power tools and cleanup.
> 
> Contrary to it's appearance it is not tipsy at all and the biggest benefits for me were going from a 5 gallon bucket to a 15 gallon drum so I don't have to empty it as often as well as not having to bend over to plug/unplug the tool from the vacuum. After these pictures I added a boom arm as well as a sander holder and I have found a couple of issues with the design so it is actually evolving a little more this weekend to rectify those issues.
> 
> My solution for making it quieter was to use a Fein vacuum however an option for someone wanting to build something similar without going to that expense would be to just build a box over the motor with foam or baffles etc to make it quieter.


Marv,

Nice set-up...compact. Thanks for posting the photo so other can see. 

If you get a chance can you post a recent photo after your modifications?

Bill


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Marv88 said:


> I originally built one of the shop notes style carts however I didn't care for it for many reasons so I came up with the design below to suit my wants/needs. I am fortunate enough to also have a full size Super Dust Deputy on a Delta dust collector seen in the background that is plumbed to all of my machines so I only use this for hand held power tools and cleanup.
> 
> Contrary to it's appearance it is not tipsy at all and the biggest benefits for me were going from a 5 gallon bucket to a 15 gallon drum so I don't have to empty it as often as well as not having to bend over to plug/unplug the tool from the vacuum. After these pictures I added a boom arm as well as a sander holder and I have found a couple of issues with the design so it is actually evolving a little more this weekend to rectify those issues.
> 
> My solution for making it quieter was to use a Fein vacuum however an option for someone wanting to build something similar without going to that expense would be to just build a box over the motor with foam or baffles etc to make it quieter.


I like this Marv, nice idea.

Bryan


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## Marv88 (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Bill and Bryan! Here are a couple of pics of the mods before finishing with a little paint and plastic end caps. I wanted to keep the sander hooked up at all times as I reach for it frequently during the day but I also wanted to be able to use this setup when needed for other tools as well as cleanup so I added the second hose along with the boom arm and sander holder. The boom arm is mounted to a Rockler hose/cord hanger and I made the hose holders/sander hanger mounting block that are attached to the 3/4" square tubing from some 1" HDPE plastic I had (the cord holders are cut off cord clamps).

One of the issues I had was the sander hanger was too low, stuck out too far and the gap between the prongs was too wide. The drag is before getting a chance to fix this I bumped it causing my smooth running trusty old Made in Germany Ridgid/Metabo clone sander to hit the ground and stop working. The new Chinese version is not of this quality so I was just going to get the actual Metabo however after reading some reviews I ended up replacing it with a Bosch ros65vc which has a slightly different handle. Today I am modifying the hanger as well as it's location and will post new pics as soon as I get it all done.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Marv88 said:


> Thanks Bill and Bryan! Here are a couple of pics of the mods before finishing with a little paint and plastic end caps. I wanted to keep the sander hooked up at all times as I reach for it frequently during the day but I also wanted to be able to use this setup when needed for other tools as well as cleanup so I added the second hose along with the boom arm and sander holder. The boom arm is mounted to a Rockler hose/cord hanger and I made the hose holders/sander hanger mounting block that are attached to the 3/4" square tubing from some 1" HDPE plastic I had (the cord holders are cut off cord clamps).
> 
> One of the issues I had was the sander hanger was too low, stuck out too far and the gap between the prongs was too wide. The drag is before getting a chance to fix this I bumped it causing my smooth running trusty old Made in Germany Ridgid/Metabo clone sander to hit the ground and stop working. The new Chinese version is not of this quality so I was just going to get the actual Metabo however after reading some reviews I ended up replacing it with a Bosch ros65vc which has a slightly different handle. Today I am modifying the hanger as well as it's location and will post new pics as soon as I get it all done.


Marv, really nice job. Nice touch on the holder for the sander, I may swipe, er borrow, that design. I assume that the steel drum is enough counterweight to keep it from tipping. I've looked at the fein vacs but walletsclerosis seems to set in and my shop vac works pretty well with my home made thien baffle separator. I did just buy the ROS65VC - haven't even had a chance to use it. I'm hoping that it will allow me to have feeling in my hands after a long sanding session... That's happening today (if I can get motivated).


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## Ratbob (Apr 6, 2015)

Marv, it looks like you can just lift the whole assembly off of the waste bucket. Great idea and very clean design! Thanks for sharing.
~Jeff


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## Marv88 (Feb 26, 2009)

PhilBa said:


> Marv, really nice job. Nice touch on the holder for the sander, I may swipe, er borrow, that design. I assume that the steel drum is enough counterweight to keep it from tipping. I've looked at the fein vacs but walletsclerosis seems to set in and my shop vac works pretty well with my home made thien baffle separator. I did just buy the ROS65VC - haven't even had a chance to use it. I'm hoping that it will allow me to have feeling in my hands after a long sanding session... That's happening today (if I can get motivated).


Thanks Phil and glad you found some inspiration in my design! Having the sander available like that is really handy and I believe the way the casters are offset from the drum is what makes it stable as the drum metal is really thin/not very heavy. The Ridgid/Metabo was pretty smooth however this new Bosch is almost unbelievably smooth with that isolation system they use so no tingling after even long periods of use which was one of my requirements (I got mine with the 5" as well as 6" pad and found for what I do the 5" will stay on most often(.


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## Marv88 (Feb 26, 2009)

Ratbob said:


> Marv, it looks like you can just lift the whole assembly off of the waste bucket. Great idea and very clean design! Thanks for sharing.
> ~Jeff


Thanks Jeff and yes I just lift the whole assembly off to empty the waste bucket!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Marv,

Very nice, thanks for posting the photos.


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## Marv88 (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks and you're welcome Bill! If anyone would like additional info on how I built this or anything else about it feel free to ask!


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

schnewj said:


> Vince,
> 
> Mind? NOT! It's about time someone posted some photos of their set-ups.
> 
> ...


Bill:

As background (again) my shopvac/separator is used for the SCMS (the biggest offender), my ROS, router table, general clean up around the table saw (my DC misses a lot) and general cleanup around the shop: shavings, etc.

I've got a ceiling mounted air cleaner that I run for an hour after I'm done in the shop.

I wear a North 7700 series 1/2 mask with cartridge and pads.

I also wear a set of 3M ear muffs and take them off the moment I leave the shop.

My thoughts on some of your questions:

Noise: not a problem for me (see above) and there is only one other person (SWMBO) in the house (upstairs). So in my case I'm not concerned about muffling the sound.

Portability/maneuverability: this, for me is the big one.
My shop is still in a state of flux (call me Rainman2). Because of the layout of my tools/workbench, I'm forever pulling the vac between everything. My space is slightly cramped: besides the basic power tools, I've got two benches, a sharpening station, 2 additional 5 and 6 foot tables, etc., etc., etc.

So, my two choices as you've seen from the various photos others have posted are:

1. portable cart with vac and separator side by side

2. portable cart with vac and separator stacked

I can't afford, space wise, the larger foot print of the side by side so my personal preference is stacked, on a wheeled cart, with some sort of handle for easy movement. Someone posted a photo of that concept (sorry I'm not sure who, without going through the entire thread.)

Vince


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Bill:
> 
> As background (again) my shopvac/separator is used for the SCMS (the biggest offender), my ROS, router table, general clean up around the table saw (my DC misses a lot) and general cleanup around the shop: shavings, etc.
> 
> ...


Vince take a look at my starter post. There is a link to Jay's Custom Creations (the first link). Jay did a stacked, open cart. The video is only about 7 minutes long. Not bad but I think that it could probably be improved.

I, too, wear eye and hearing protection. So, the noise is not a total problem for me. However, I work out of a garage/shop and I would like to be a little more considerate to the neighbors. Therefore, I am leaning towards an enclosed unit to muffle the drone of the vac.

Bill


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

I take mine from DW735 to a 50 gal fiber drum... light & easy to use... No sense using the Dust Deputy... The 735 really outputs a big stream of chips.. would full up a 5 gal can very FAST!


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

I built a sound deadening container for my shopvac some years ago. To eliminate noise from my shop vacuum, I built an enclosure with sound proofing material from Acoustical Surfaces Inc. 123 Columbia Court North Suite 201 Chaska, MN 55316 (952) 448-5300. It works very well. The design came from a 2007 "Fine Woodworking" article. The acoustical material was not cheap but it is very, very effective.
I can listen to the radio with the shopvac on. While it does get warm inside the enclosure the thermal cut off on the vacuum has never activated. I used particle board but, if I had to do it over, I would use plywood. The particle board is too heavy and hard on the tools. I put mine on casters and made the height the same as my table saw so that in a pinch it can be an outfield surface for wood to rest on.

Now, as the the Dewalt 735. I would not try to use it with a shopvac and an Oneida dust deputy. It puts out so much material and under such force that the vacuum and cyclone may not be able to keep up when planing wide stock, say 10" boards.
I use a 30 gallon drum and the dust hood that came with the Dewalt. I have to use a band clamp to attach the cloth hood. A couple of times I did not ratchet it tightly enough and it blew off.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

johnjory said:


> I built a sound deadening container for my shopvac some years ago. To eliminate noise from my shop vacuum, I built an enclosure with sound proofing material from Acoustical Surfaces Inc. 123 Columbia Court North Suite 201 Chaska, MN 55316 (952) 448-5300. It works very well. The design came from a 2007 "Fine Woodworking" article. The acoustical material was not cheap but it is very, very effective.
> I can listen to the radio with the shopvac on. While it does get warm inside the enclosure the thermal cut off on the vacuum has never activated. I used particle board but, if I had to do it over, I would use plywood. The particle board is too heavy and hard on the tools. I put mine on casters and made the height the same as my table saw so that in a pinch it can be an outfield surface for wood to rest on.
> 
> Now, as the the Dewalt 735. I would not try to use it with a shopvac and an Oneida dust deputy. It puts out so much material and under such force that the vacuum and cyclone may not be able to keep up when planing wide stock, say 10" boards.
> I use a 30 gallon drum and the dust hood that came with the Dewalt. I have to use a band clamp to attach the cloth hood. A couple of times I did not ratchet it tightly enough and it blew off.


John,

Thanks for the info. Could you post a photo of the enclosure? I, and I'm sure others would be interested in the arrangement.

For a data point. Do you remember the cost of the sound deadening material and what type it was that you ordered?

On the side note:

The more this gets discussed the consensus seems to be to just let the 735 blow into a container. 

I did attempt to hook my Oneida and my shop vac to my router table over the weekend. The results were less then stellar! I bought the table second hand and I had some design issues right from the start. 

The dust extraction was non-existent and I finally gave up. However, it did move some air in the collection box and cooled the router a little bit better.

To be fair, it may not be all the tables fault. It has a plexiglass plate and no feature to place lock rings at the bit. This leave a very large hole that may have affected the vacuum, or it may just need more CFMs.

Either way, the table will eventually go. I just plain don't like it and I am less then thrilled with the Makita router that came with it.

Bill


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## Steve S (Jul 14, 2015)

*Btdt*

As to the issue of silencing the Crapsman large Shop Vac, Been There Done That (BTDT) Exhaustively. You are better off to invest in a good vac such as Bosch or Festool and eliminate any need for noize sontrol instead of pouring good money after bad in the form of the enclosure which also takes up substantial floor obstruction..

I still have a ShopVac but leave it ouitside the door to the shop for work out there. The other Shop Vac I have gave away to my new son ion law - what a present.


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## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

Steve S said:


> Crapsman You are better off to invest in a good vac such as Bosch or Festool and eliminate any need for noize sontrol instead of pouring good money after bad
> 
> Just what model do you recommend Steve?


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

I have yet to meet a shop vac filter that I like. Either does not filter down low enough or clogs way too easy.


Combine that with low flow and an exhaust not safe to discharge back into the garage, I do not use mine very much. If I do, I exhaust it outside.


----------



## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

timbertailor said:


> I have yet to meet a shop vac filter that I like. Either does not filter down low enough or clogs way too easy.
> 
> 
> Combine that with low flow and an exhaust not safe to discharge back into the garage, I do not use mine very much. If I do, I exhaust it outside.


I was with you on this, my shop vac sat mostly idle under bench for years. It was too much of a pain to clean the filter with the frequency needed and performance was lousy if wasn't kept clean ... Until the acquisition of a planer forced me build a separator. Now they don't go anywhere without each other and I hardly ever check the shop vac for emptying or a clogged filter.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I wonder if a guy could throw away the canister on the shop vac and mount it on a small wooden box right above the separator on a cart?


Hmmmmmmmmmm............
Herb


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> I wonder if a guy could throw away the canister on the shop vac and mount it on a small wooden box right above the separator on a cart?
> 
> 
> Hmmmmmmmmmm............
> Herb


Herb,

Now that's a thought!!!!!

Anybody tried this? Since you really don't need the canister if you're running a separator like a Thien or a cyclone, you should be able to use just the motor and the filter.

You would still have to deal with the noise, but the footprint would reduce dramatically.

Bill


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Bill:
There would still be some dust/particles get through the separator - where would they go? Unless I misread Herb's suggestion, you would still need some place to collect the stuff that doesn't get trapped.

Having re-read Herb's post, maybe he means REPLACE the canister with a small box for the stuff that gets through.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Herb,
> 
> Now that's a thought!!!!!
> 
> ...


Sort of, my vac has a very small canister - iirc 6 gallons. I've emptied the separator about 5 times and the canister has maybe 1" of dust in it.


----------



## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Bill:
> There would still be some dust/particles get through the separator - where would they go? Unless I misread Herb's suggestion, you would still need some place to collect the stuff that doesn't get trapped.
> 
> Having re-read Herb's post, maybe he means REPLACE the canister with a small box for the stuff that gets through.


Exactly! Ditch the shop vac canister for a small box the the filter would fit into. No more bulky collection container and hence a smaller footprint overall. 

Again, you would still have to deal with the motor noise on the vac assembly.

Bill


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

timbertailor said:


> I have yet to meet a shop vac filter that I like. Either does not filter down low enough or clogs way too easy.
> 
> 
> Combine that with low flow and an exhaust not safe to discharge back into the garage, I do not use mine very much. If I do, I exhaust it outside.


Just get a new filter for your Vac...
... add a Dust Deputy to it...
... you will never have to buy or clean your Vac filter again! NEVER!
... your Vac. will always be sucking at FULL STRENGTH... no losing suction as something gets full...

You will be glad you did...
You will wish you had done YEARS ago...!!

It's GREAT!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Just get a new filter for your Vac...
> ... add a Dust Deputy to it...
> ... you will never have to buy or clean your Vac filter again! NEVER!
> ... your Vac. will always be sucking at FULL STRENGTH... no losing suction as something gets full...
> ...


I bought my 16 gallon Craftsman back in the mid 80's (30 years ago) it has been used for everything from sucking a waterbed mattress dry to cleaning up cobwebs and construction debris. It has NEVER let me down.

The best thing I ever did, was ditch the paper filter and spring for a more expensive HEPA. I just use a soft brush to clean it off and it is good to go. If it gets wet it isn't destroyed like a paper filter would.

It's big, bulky and somewhat noisy, but it is still a workhorse. I don't know the quality of the newer Craftsmen and really don't care.

I know that there are quieter "dust collector" vacs out there. If I were to replace this one I would definitely upgrade. However, not everyone, who is not a professional keeping a customers home clean, can afford $700 "shop vacs".

In the end, no matter what you own, it just needs to suck up what it is designed to suck up. Some are more portable, some quieter, some more powerful, and some more expensive, but they all do the job.

Bill


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Just get a new filter for your Vac...
> ... add a Dust Deputy to it...
> ... you will never have to buy or clean your Vac filter again! NEVER!
> ... your Vac. will always be sucking at FULL STRENGTH... no losing suction as something gets full...
> ...


Not worth the trouble for a shop vac with no power or flow.

I just use this instead.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Just get a new filter for your Vac...
> ... add a Dust Deputy to it...
> ... you will never have to buy or clean your Vac filter again! NEVER!
> ... your Vac. will always be sucking at FULL STRENGTH... no losing suction as something gets full...
> ...


Joe, I agree that using a separator in front of the vac makes a lot of sense but the finer stuff will still get through. This is especially true for sanding. I have a hepa filter in my vac. I have a separator but it still passes really fine (small, not nice) dust. It is mostly used for collecting sanding dust. It takes a long time to get a lot in the vac but it will eventually require a filter replacement. Still, the important point is that a separator makes a huge difference and is worth adding.

I don't see anything on the size of particles that a dust deputy passes. They claim 99% get captured but don't specifically give a size. They also aren't clear on the source of the particles for that 99% stat - saw, planer, sander. I'd bet it's not sander dust. 

By definition, HEPA filters to .3 micron (99.97% of all larger than .3 micron particles to be precise). In my HEPA filter, I can see the accumulation so I know my separator isn't getting it all.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

schnewj said:


> I bought my 16 gallon Craftsman back in the mid 80's (30 years ago) it has been used for everything from sucking a waterbed mattress dry to cleaning up cobwebs and construction debris. It has NEVER let me down.
> 
> The best thing I ever did, was ditch the paper filter and spring for a more expensive HEPA. I just use a soft brush to clean it off and it is good to go. If it gets wet it isn't destroyed like a paper filter would.
> 
> ...


I don't use anywhere close to a $700 shop vac + acces...

I think the Rigid Vac was around $45... Dust Deputy on sale was ~$50 with FREE SHIPPING from Rockler... For less than $100, I am VERY HAPPY with this configuration.

I added a shelf-type shelf (round - free form) to hold the Dust Deputy... so, when I move the Vac around, the Dust Deputy tags along... a GREAT configuration... I can see the level of the Chips from the outside... all I do is flip the lid, dump the can, put the lid back on, and I'm ready for collecting MORE... I NEVER have had to clean the Vac Tank since using the DD... The Filter is always CLEAN! Very easy to setup...
The ONLY way to fly...


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

schnewj said:


> I bought my 16 gallon Craftsman back in the mid 80's (30 years ago) it has been used for everything from sucking a waterbed mattress dry to cleaning up cobwebs and construction debris. It has NEVER let me down.
> 
> The best thing I ever did, was ditch the paper filter and spring for a more expensive HEPA. I just use a soft brush to clean it off and it is good to go. If it gets wet it isn't destroyed like a paper filter would.
> 
> ...


Bill:

I have one of that vintage or perhaps a bit older, honestly can't remember when I bought it. Noisy, powerful and virtually indestructible covers it. Last big job was cleaning up after wrecking out dry wall in a commercial building. Didn't slow it down a whit.

Still running the paper filters with some duct tape patches. Should look to that HEPA filter. Do you have a source and part number to share?


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

JFPNCM said:


> Bill:
> 
> I have one of that vintage or perhaps a bit older, honestly can't remember when I bought it. Noisy, powerful and virtually indestructible covers it. Last big job was cleaning up after wrecking out dry wall in a commercial building. Didn't slow it down a whit.
> 
> Still running the paper filters with some duct tape patches. Should look to that HEPA filter. Do you have a source and part number to share?


Jon,

It has been so long, I don't remember where I got the HEPA. I believe that it may have been Home Depot. They are fairly common and there are only a few sizes. Most all shop vacs use the same type round filters. I would just take your old paper filter and match it up to a HEPA in one of the big box stores.

Bill


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

schnewj said:


> Jon,
> 
> It has been so long, I don't remember where I got the HEPA. I believe that it may have been Home Depot. They are fairly common and there are only a few sizes. Most all shop vacs use the same type round filters. I would just take your old paper filter and match it up to a HEPA in one of the big box stores.
> 
> Bill


Thanks, will do.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Whatever you do, just pay more attention to your health when building these systems and don't look at them as just house keeping tools. It takes a big filter to get the fine particles AND provide the flow required to remove the fine particles at the tool. If you are not using a quality filter that goes down to 1 or 0.5 micron, then you need to get one ASAP. Even if it means you have to clean it every time you use it.

My separator works pretty damn good. I do not even have a catch bag because it removes so much before it gets to the filter but the fine particles do build up on the filter. So no DC system is immune from clogging.


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## Steve S (Jul 14, 2015)

Having Been There Done that on all the items shown over 15 years, I will fast forward and say that unless you enjoy the magnificent work Jays and the OP have done on a hobby project. you are wasting a lot of time and money. Add to that, in the case of the (DeWalt) planers' huge volume, the Oneida Dust Deputy is a waste of both (again, due to sheer volume).

1. Put a plastic cyclonic lid (~$30) on a metal garbage can;
2. A Sears Craftsman shop vac is inadequate CFM to handle it, and is a real screamer. Invest in a better quality Vac once and for all, or better, a 1 Hp Dust Collector if possible.

Aove all, save the wasted effort on the (A pretty face) foam enclosure and spend the resources on something nice for the wife while she still has her sanity from the noise of the Craftsman.

Oh, yes; congrats on the fine videos spent documenting the futile efforts.


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

*John Jory*

I don't remember if I ever contributed anything to this group before. this discussion interested me, so here are my two cents worth.
I have a Dewalt 735. I made for it about 4 or 5 years ago. It needed wheels because my workshop is my garage. It took me maybe 1 to 2 hours to build, maybe 3 if I include the trip to Harbor Freight for the castors and Home Depot for the 2x4s. It has no finish on it and no doors. the bottom shelf is for a motor just to get it out of the way since it is seldom used. 
Why didn't I put on a finish? I just wanted to use the planer and be able to move it. It is a tool not furniture. My saw horses don't have finish on them either. 

I quickly found out that the planer really pushes out the chips with more force than my shop vac system could handle. So my solution was to use the hose and cloth hood that came with the tool. A simple band clamp hold's in on the 30 gallon drum I bought for it. The planer is very noisy so I use ear muffs. I don't like wearing them but it is a necessity. 

Now to my shop vac system. This I use often. I hate the noise so I built an enclosure. It was taken from a 2007 Fine Woodworking article. It works. I can listen to the radio while the shop vac is on. I use a little cyclone unit like the Oneida dust deputy. (I would have used the Oneida but this was something I found online before Oneida offered the dust deputy) My cyclone purchase was just because emptying the shop vac in an enclosure was a pain. The cyclone unit solves that problem. I rarely need to clean the shop vac container or it filter.
My enclosure is on wheels and made the same height as my Unisaw. It is not really an extension table but it does help with long pieces being cross cut.
What I make for use in the shop is built as cheaply and quickly as possible so I can get back to making things worth showing publicly.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Sorry for not applying more attention to the thread recently. Some personal and family issues have temporarily diverted my attention.

I may have done a disservice to the thread in the beginning by mentioning that one of my uses for the Dust Deputy and the shop vac was on a DW735. In retrospect, people replying to the thread seem to have more of a focus on pros and cons of this then the original intent. 

There has been a lot of fantastic info scattered throughout the thread; all of the information is useful. 

However, the intent of the thread was to address building a stand utilizing a Dust Deputy and an old Craftsman Shop Vac. The arrangement could be used for any light duty dust collecting activity. The criteria was an arrangement to make the pair portable and compact. Stacking was the concept to minimize the floor footprint. The secondary consideration was the noise factor and how to minimize that noise.

I realize the CFMs generated by the shop vac are not adequate for some applications. However, there are plenty of operations that can benefit from the use of the combination. Again, the build was to collectively discuss what would be the best arrangement for the combo to utilize this accessory in the small shop. To that end, there has been a lot of information imparted here from numerous sources and practical experiences.

So, in the spirit of getting this thread back on track and active I would like to reiterate the focus: forget that the combination will be used on any particular piece of equipment, what would be the best stacked design for the two components (please continue to show photos if you have one built, designed or even a concept sketch), if sound deadening was desired element; how would you approach it, what would you use, where is the source of the material, and do you have a design in mind?

Remember, this is a group build. Once enough information has been gathered and there are some viable choices, I will place the information out there for the group to decide the best course of action. I will then build that arrangement and publish a photo how to for the group and novices to see. 

Bill


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## FreeTime (Dec 2, 2012)

schnewj said:


> I may have done a disservice to the thread in the beginning by mentioning that one of my uses for the Dust Deputy and the shop vac was on a DW735.
> ...
> However, the intent of the thread was to address building a stand utilizing a Dust Deputy and an old Craftsman Shop Vac.
> ...
> ...


Bill, I can appreciate your efforts to get this back on track and I don't think you really did any initial disservice by mentioning "that piece of equipment" ... you can't evaluate any proposed design w/o understanding all the intended uses. The most useful and quietest dust collection system I own is a broom and dust pan (but it didn't keep up specifically with "that piece of equipment")

I didn't initially understand that you were looking to build against specifically a DD and Craftsman vac. I think what has become clear in this thread is that one size may not fit all. 

In addition to your basic request for more pictures .... maybe some challenge parameters are in order ... max cost above the 2 components, max footprint / narrowest isle you can move it through, unique tool connection approaches, ???

I feel like I got alot out of this thread but I haven't seen the "must-have" (for the price) that would cause me to rebuild what I have. The "must-have" would of course be related to reasonably priced noise deadening techniques. I'm not working with a FestTool budget.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

schnewj said:


> Sorry for not applying more attention to the thread recently. Some personal and family issues have temporarily diverted my attention.
> 
> I may have done a disservice to the thread in the beginning by mentioning that one of my uses for the Dust Deputy and the shop vac was on a DW735. In retrospect, people replying to the thread seem to have more of a focus on pros and cons of this then the original intent.
> 
> ...


Sorry, if I misunderstood the objective...

I don't know what your vac looks like... BUT...

I have a large Ridgid Vac... I was able to cut-out a platform for the Dust Deputy that would wrap half way around the Vac and mount into the wheel covers and base of the Vac... It ALL moves around as ONE PIECE now... Sorry, I can't take a picture of mine right now... but, I think you get the idea... I don't Stack them... Mine are Side by Side...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

FreeTime said:


> Bill, I can appreciate your efforts to get this back on track and I don't think you really did any initial disservice by mentioning "that piece of equipment" ... you can't evaluate any proposed design w/o understanding all the intended uses. The most useful and quietest dust collection system I own is a broom and dust pan (but it didn't keep up specifically with "that piece of equipment")
> 
> I didn't initially understand that you were looking to build against specifically a DD and Craftsman vac. I think what has become clear in this thread is that one size may not fit all.
> 
> ...


*Not a problem! Yes, there are many factors and various perimeters for each and every one of us. Discussing the different arrangements is meant to foster out of the box thinking as to how each would build to fit their means and circumstances. *



Joe Lyddon said:


> Sorry, if I misunderstood the objective...
> 
> I don't know what your vac looks like... BUT...
> 
> I have a large Ridgid Vac... I was able to cut-out a platform for the Dust Deputy that would wrap half way around the Vac and mount into the wheel covers and base of the Vac... It ALL moves around as ONE PIECE now... Sorry, I can't take a picture of mine right now... but, I think you get the idea... I don't Stack them... Mine are Side by Side...


*No misunderstands, Joe! All of the opinions, examples and practical experiences are welcomed here. The thread was two fold; to provide some practical information out there to newer woodworkers, that may be on a budget or limited space. It provides them for some solutions to their possible problems. The second was selfish on my part. I was/am looking for practical ideas to fit my own situation, but ultimately, to provide a show and tell for newbies to follow in the future, should they choose to build a similar arrangement. *

Bill


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hey Joe. great to see you back.....


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Joe Lyddon said:


> Sorry, if I misunderstood the objective...
> 
> I don't know what your vac looks like... BUT...
> 
> I have a large Ridgid Vac... I was able to cut-out a platform for the Dust Deputy that would wrap half way around the Vac and mount into the wheel covers and base of the Vac... It ALL moves around as ONE PIECE now... Sorry, I can't take a picture of mine right now... but, I think you get the idea... I don't Stack them... Mine are Side by Side...


 @Joe Lyddon

Side by side is certainly an alternative to the stacked configuration and may or may not work for others (me). I haven't decided which way I will go.

Not sure if you've posted pictures of your set up (without looking back through 10 pages of posts).

If not, would it be possible for you to put up a pic or two of your setup. I think Bill, I and others would certainly benefit from them.

Vince


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have a Ridgid 14 gallon shop vac. with no seperator. Most of the trash that goes in there is fine dust. My Ridgid has the normal canister filter and I find it easy to clean. I take the shop vac. outside and take the top off and leave the filter connected. I lay it on the ground and use my Echo leaf blower to clean the filter. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes of blowing to get it clean.

I would like to here your comments on the way I clean the filter "good or bad". I guess bad comments would be more benifical.

Don


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> I have a Ridgid 14 gallon shop vac. with no seperator. Most of the trash that goes in there is fine dust. My Ridgid has the normal canister filter and I find it easy to clean. I take the shop vac. outside and take the top off and leave the filter connected. I lay it on the ground and use my Echo leaf blower to clean the filter. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes of blowing to get it clean.
> 
> I would like to here your comments on the way I clean the filter "good or bad". I guess bad comments would be more benifical.
> 
> Don


Don,

The only criticism I see is that you are blowing fine dust into the air. Regardless of being outside, which is better then and enclosed space, fine dust particles are the worst thing that you can be exposed to healthwise. If you do this I would suggest wearing a properly fitted N95 rated dust mask to protect your lungs.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

hawkeye10 said:


> I have a Ridgid 14 gallon shop vac. with no seperator. Most of the trash that goes in there is fine dust. My Ridgid has the normal canister filter and I find it easy to clean. I take the shop vac. outside and take the top off and leave the filter connected. I lay it on the ground and use my Echo leaf blower to clean the filter. It doesn't take more than 5 minutes of blowing to get it clean.
> 
> I would like to here your comments on the way I clean the filter "good or bad". I guess bad comments would be more benifical.
> 
> Don


Try to find a HEPA rated filter for your shop vac.

Adding a separator will help keep the new filter cleaner longer. It will still need a fair amount of attention. It just does not have enough surface area.

I used to exhaust mine outside but now it exhausts through the Wynn.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

*Making Separator*

I bought the Dust-Rite separator from Rockler a while back and am very happy with the way it works hooked up to my shop vac. Based on this, I plan to make a larger unit to hook up to my Delta DC. I bought a sturdy plastic drum through Amazon, and the fittings from Rockler - should have bought the connectors first as you can see, although the picture on Amazon really doesn't show the recesses that well. The problem is that the top of the drum isn't flat, and doesn't have enough flat area for the fittings. I like the drum, really heavy with a gasketed screw top, so trying to work around it. What I came up with was making a plywood disc to fit into the recess in the lid and gluing it in place - first question, will clear silicone glue plywood to HDPE? I was thinking glue the disc down with silicone, and maybe some screws with fender washers into the plywood from below. To install the fittings, I thought the way to go would be to pick out the locations (thinking centered on the pointed recess at 90° to the rectangular recess) and drill a pilot hole at the center of the fitting. Flip the lid over, pick up the pilot hole and drill a hole to clear the fitting flange with a hole saw - only just go through the plastic. Flip the lid over again, pick up the pilot hole and drill a hole to suit the fitting body. This would get rid of the projections below the lid, but only in the area of the two fittings. What do you think?

I'm also working on mating the Dust-Rite to my shop vac - came up with an idea to set the vac on top to minimize the footprint. The basic idea is OK, the execution on my part was poor so I'm remaking the parts (sometimes using up scraps just to use scraps isn't the best idea). I'll post some photos of that once I get a little further along - still some final decisions on the concept, including whether it's time to replace my old shop vac with a newer, more powerful model.


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