# trimming a piece of stock safely



## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

I have several pieces of stock 3/4 x 2 3/4 x 10 with a tongue cut on the edge. The tongue seems to be about 1/16 too large. What is a safe way to trim this by 1/16. Enlarging the groove is not an option. I tried raising the dado and running it through and started experiencing kickback so don't know what I am doing wrong. Any ideas?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

For starters, Bill, I'd want to know if the tongue was exactly centred on the centre-line of the boards' edge(?). 
If it is, I'd want to take 1/32 off each side of the tongue rather than all off one side.
I'd use a regular finish blade rather than the dado for something that precise, and I'd probably cut on the outside of the tongue rather than the side closest to the fence.
For safety's sake...I hate working with exposed blades!...I'd clamp a pce. of 2x4 on the flat, gently up against the outside of the board to guide it through. Push stick, and a feather board on top if you're really worried. That's a pretty short piece of wood to be running through without any sort of kickback protection.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

billyjim said:


> I have several pieces of stock 3/4 x 2 3/4 x 10 with a tongue cut on the edge. The tongue seems to be about 1/16 too large. What is a safe way to trim this by 1/16. Enlarging the groove is not an option. I tried raising the dado and running it through and started experiencing kickback so don't know what I am doing wrong. Any ideas?


shoulder plane..

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=68490&cat=1,41182


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Can you use a router table, make a pass on each side.
Position the workpiece flat like depicted below.

I would re create a piece just like you now have and make several test cuts until you get it right. A push block like the bench dog paddles like I have will help keep the work piece flat on the table and should make for a safe cut.

Good luck.
Mike


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

I don't have a shoulder plane and I don't want to buy one for this. The router table sounds doable Mike. I don't feel comfortable trying it on the TS...that was not a good experience and I was using a gripper. Still kicked back and nicked my finger in the process.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

billyjim said:


> I don't have a shoulder plane and I don't want to buy one for this. The router table sounds doable Mike. I don't feel comfortable trying it on the TS...that was not a good experience and I was using a gripper. Still kicked back and nicked my finger in the process.


There has been more than once that I have had to stop and take a break before I mess something up, or get hurt.

It never hurts to ask for help. There are a lot of good folks here and lots of experience to draw upon.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm a newbie and understand uncomfortable but would have no problem trying this on the router table as Mike suggested...even if it were on the short edge. Featherboard might add to the comfort level...it does for me. Run it right to left...you might know that already...

Good luck...Nick


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm not clear from the wording of the question--"tongue is too large". Is the tongue too thick or is it too long? Is the trim cut going to be end grain, cross grain or a rip cut? What wood--there's a difference between how i'd handle pine, cherry or walnut. Picture of the piece or diagram of what's got to happen might help get you to the right solution. If it's too thick, i'd probably use Mike's method. If it's too long, then the miter saw with a stop block. 

earl


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Bill if I had just a few pieces to do and only 1/16" I use a disk sander or belt sander


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> I'm not clear from the wording of the question--"tongue is too large". Is the tongue too thick or is it too long? Is the trim cut going to be end grain, cross grain or a rip cut? What wood--there's a difference between how i'd handle pine, cherry or walnut. Picture of the piece or diagram of what's got to happen might help get you to the right solution. If it's too thick, i'd probably use Mike's method. If it's too long, then the miter saw with a stop block.
> 
> earl


Sorry Earl. I will try to clarify. It is too thick and the material is Red Oak. I think Mike's solution is doable and I will probably go in that direction. But for future reference I wish I knew what I did wrong to cause the kickback.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mikes method will work make test pieces until you get the length and thickness right. The only issue with that method is that the treat pieces have to be the same thickness as your oak piece.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bill; you asked "... But for future reference I wish I knew what I did wrong to cause the kickback."
But previously you had said, " I tried raising the dado and running it through and started experiencing kickback so don't know what I am doing wrong. Any ideas?"

If I think about this now, it sounds like you were running the wood flat on the table, and perhaps using the TS fence to control the cut length of the tongue?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Bill; you asked "... But for future reference I wish I knew what I did wrong to cause the kickback."
> But previously you had said, " I tried raising the dado and running it through and started experiencing kickback so don't know what I am doing wrong. Any ideas?"
> 
> If I think about this now, it sounds like you were running the wood flat on the table, and perhaps using the TS fence to control the cut length of the tongue?


no miter gage???
free hand against the fence???


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Dan I did have the stock flat on the table with the tongue against the fence and using the gripper to hold the stock flat. Since I was making a very shallow cut I didn't anticipate any problems. Obviously I didn't think it out very well and that, along with my limited experience, created a dangerous situation.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> no miter gage???
> free hand against the fence???


No miter gage is correct. I don't understand how I would have used the miter in that situation.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

billyjim said:


> I have several pieces of stock 3/4 x 2 3/4 x 10 with a tongue cut on the edge. The tongue seems to be about 1/16 too large. What is a safe way to trim this by 1/16. Enlarging the groove is not an option. I tried raising the dado and running it through and started experiencing kickback so don't know what I am doing wrong. Any ideas?


But guys... As I read the OP's original post, the Op said the _Tongue_ is 1/16" too long, not too short. So that is not the rebate cuts needing to be cut more... (just the opposite, right?). Rather, he needs to decrease the overall width of the stock to shorten the tongue by 1/16".

He could do it several ways, but the fastest, easiest, safest way would be to _joint_ the outside surface of the tongues. He said he had multiple pieces with the same issue. On a router table w/ a jointing fence...

Safest way for me to do multiple pieces would be set a crosscut fence with a stop-block, with a parallel fence and clamp it in my slider on the panel saw... which would mean others could do the same on a cross-cut sled (TS) to do consistent repeated cuts...

If he lucked out, another way would be to use a _sized_ bearing on a trim bit. The rebate surface on the bearing, the cutting edge trimming the tongue. That is, if the math worked out for him for that. Which using the same concept, if you take a strip of hardboard, lay it down on your router table, and router a relief for your bit. Clamp it down to the table and use it as a short fence... Edge to the rebate against the shoulder of the rebate. Instance zero clearance short fence.

I could go on with other ideas... Depends on what you are comfortable with and your tooling.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

No, Mike; Bill said it's too _large_. He later clarified that as being too _thick_.
That's why I was on about making sure he was taking the correct amount off each face, to keep the exposed faces flush. If the tongue is a tiny bit too short, no harm done...it'll be buried in the groove.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Ah, okay. Now I understand. The tongue is too thick... router rebate bit or adjusted tongue bit.

Dado blade if rebated into a false fence face. (no kickback that way = workpiece not trapped between the blade and fence.


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Ah, okay. Now I understand. The tongue is too thick... router rebate bit or adjusted tongue bit.
> 
> Dado blade if rebated into a false fence face. (no kickback that way = workpiece not trapped between the blade and fence.


that is what I tried and still got kickback which is why I am so confused. I don't understand what I did wrong.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

billyjim said:


> that is what I tried and still got kickback which is why I am so confused. I don't understand what I did wrong.


Well, if the dado blade was rebated into a false fence so that the dado was on the same side (in relation to the workpiece) as the rip fence... then it would be just like a router table (orientation, like a bit in a fence). Workpiece does not get trapped between the rip fence and blade. 

If you had the offside edge of your work against the rip fence and the dado cutting your tongue on the other side of that. Then you would have had your workpiece between the rip fence and your cutting edge. There is a danger of kickback doing it that way. 

Visualize that you are undercutting an edge, where the offside is against the rip fence. As the blade is turning towards you, it lifts the workpiece slightly and trieds to pull that edge forward, as it pushed the leading corner of the offside edge against the rip fence. It would then has a tendency to try to spin clockwise as the teeth would grab into the shoulder... You can see that plot thickening right?

There are ways to make that (the method in the last paragraph) less likely to cause a kickback... but there are also safer ways, such as I and others have explained.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

billyjim said:


> that is what I tried and still got kickback which is why I am so confused. I don't understand what I did wrong.


are you using a miter gage to hold the piece and keep it square to the blade/fence???
is the bulk of the piece....
why do I think you are free handing the piece between the fence and the blade...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

A moving picture is worth many thousands of words!
(I think Confucius said that...)
Online Extras - Woodsmith Magazine


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> A moving picture is worth many thousands of words!
> (I think Confucius said that...)
> Online Extras - Woodsmith Magazine


I have this sneaky feeling that he's freehand cutting to the right of the blade...


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> I have this sneaky feeling that he's freehand cutting to the right of the blade...


Stick, Dan and Mike...I appreciate all of your input and your efforts to help me understand what went wrong. But as I read your comments I have this feeling that either we are not communicating clearly or that I am just to dumb to understand what you are saying (which is entirely possible). Let me describe this one more time and see if we can connect. I have a sacrificial fence and the dado blade is in the fence by about 1/8" inch. The length of the stock, not the end, has the tongue. The tongue is too fat for the grooves I have cut. I am trying to shave a whisker off each side of the tongue to sneak up on the fit. The stock is laying flat with the tongue against the fence and I am using a gripper to hold and feed the stock. To be honest I don't remember where my left hand was. After reading all the comments and thinking about this quite a bit, I believe what may have happened is that the pressure I was applying shifted from being downward to more lateral in nature, resulting in the stock tipping on the tongue side and raising the outside edge up and into the back of the blade, causing the kickback. If the story ended there I could accept that but it didn't because somehow in the process my left index finger came in contact with the blade. Nothing too serious but a nasty cut nonetheless. Does my conclusion seem plausible?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

w/o the saw running...
take a picture of what you are saying and post it...


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> w/o the saw running...
> take a picture of what you are saying and post it...


As soon as it stops raining I will do that.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bill; it's exactly as I pictured it in my original comment. Sorry to hear about your accident!
Somehow the discussion had veered into router tables and 'tenons'... 
Your near catastrophic close call just reinforces what I said about being within a country mile of an unguarded blade, eh? Watching guys use a TS with their hands, instead of push blocks and sticks, gives me the willies. Take this near miss to heart, Bill; James shuddered when I posted pics of TS trauma last week, but I did it for exactly this reason. Hope you're on the mend!!!
http://www.routerforums.com/shop-safety/48226-trimming-piece-stock-safely.html#post402418


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Bill; it's exactly as I pictured it in my original comment. Sorry to hear about your accident!
> Somehow the discussion had veered into router tables and 'tenons'...
> Your near catastrophic close call just reinforces what I said about being within a country mile of an unguarded blade, eh? Watching guys use a TS with their hands, instead of push blocks and sticks, gives me the willies. Take this near miss to heart, Bill; James shuddered *when I posted pics of TS trauma last week,* but I did it for exactly this reason. Hope you're on the mend!!!
> http://www.routerforums.com/shop-safety/48226-trimming-piece-stock-safely.html#post402418


Dan, what pictures did you post??? where????


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You know, I've reconsidered after all the comments, and my thinking this through, maybe running it through (rip position) with the saw blade on the _outside_ of the tongue might be a bit safer. I was originally thinking that there was a tipping hazard...there's what, only 3/8" of remaining material bearing on the table? 
That's why I suggested a 2X4 parallel to the fence clamped to the table...the top face is higher than the exposed blade and stops your short pieces from tipping in either direction. But you'd absolutely need a feather board or something on top to stop it from coming up. for shaving off maybe 1/32" (off either side) a finish blade is all you need...take the dado stack off.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*You're Asking me...*



Stick486 said:


> Dan, what pictures did you post??? where????


How do I find a thread that I started?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I figured _that_ out...not there, so must have been a comment on another thread(?).

Never mind, I relocated the original URL...
If you have a weak stomach, _don't click on the link._
Table Saw Accident Pictures


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Bill; it's exactly as I pictured it in my original comment. Sorry to hear about your accident!
> Somehow the discussion had veered into router tables and 'tenons'...
> Your near catastrophic close call just reinforces what I said about being within a country mile of an unguarded blade, eh? Watching guys use a TS with their hands, instead of push blocks and sticks, gives me the willies. Take this near miss to heart, Bill; James shuddered when I posted pics of TS trauma last week, but I did it for exactly this reason. Hope you're on the mend!!!
> http://www.routerforums.com/shop-safety/48226-trimming-piece-stock-safely.html#post402418


Dan I am with you on pushblocks...that is why I use the gripper which, with the handle bridge, keeps my hand well clear of the blade. I am on the mend and doing well thanks.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

daninvan said:


> i figured _that_ out...not there, so must have been a comment on another thread(?).
> 
> Never mind, i relocated the original url...
> If you have a weak stomach, _don't click on the link._
> table saw accident pictures


*yowzer!!!!*


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