# My first router, questions first



## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Hi folks, Not only am I new to routers, I'm new to woodworking. I'm a disabled senior with a lot of time!
I love fly fishing and fly tying. I have decided I want to build fly tying stations. Several years ago I inherited 2 large tools chests with my uncles hand tools. I was going to sell them but I decided to keep them. I will need a router to finish my workstations. I need to ask a few questions before I purchase. Also I am on a limited income being a senior. I thought I would start with the best quality from Harbor Freight. In the future I will upgrade but I need an economical starting place with a warranty.

My questions:
1. What power should I start with?
2. Plunge or fixed?
3. 1/4" or 1/2"
4. Should I get a table too, does the table need to be the same brand?
5. Can 1/4" bits be used in 1/2" router? 

I need to make 2" indentions in the table tops for fly parts like hooks etc. How do I get them perfectly round, about 1/4"
in depth?
I promise I won't be a pest! I really appreciate your time! Thanks so much!
Kind Regards,
Charlie47


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Charlie; welcome!
Power isn't the first question you need to consider, what feels right in your hands, and is well supported by the manufacturer are two really important factors. Many first time router buyers are swayed by (low!) prices and then suffer 'buyers' remorse'.
A lot of us here have Bosch 2 1/4 hp routers and are really pleased with them. 
'Cherryville Chuck' swears by his Hitachi routers, there are also many DeWalt owners.
Mine is a Bosch 1617EVSPK...both a fixed base and a plunge base..
It has both 1/4" and 1/2" collets included. 
If you are only doing small items you might find a 1/4" trim router perfect for your needs. DeWalt makes a very nice package with both a fixed and a plunge base, as does Bosch.
I'm the wrong guy to answer table questions but there are lots of 3rd party tables that will take pretty much anybody's router.
You want either an Aluminum or cast Iron/steel top...no plastic tops!!
On the indentation question; you mean concave or evenly deep across the span?


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Welcome to the fun!

I would get a plunge router - far more useful that a fixed base. 2 HP or so will work for a lot of tasks. I buy plenty of stuff from HF, but, as you probably know, their quality is hit or miss. I read the reviews on their website to know what to expect and to avoid the true dogs. Some of their stuff actually works ok. Personally, I wouldn't buy an HF router but if that's all you can afford. You might want to consider used Hitachi, Bosch or DeWalt.

It may take a little bit of learning but bowl cutting router bits will allow you to make the holes holes you want. The advantage over a straight bit is that the corners will be rounded which is quite important for getting little parts out. Here's an example picture. Lots of companies make them. You will need to learn how to make a template for this bit and you will need a variable speed router as it's a pretty big bit and needs to go at a slower speed. Needs a plunge router.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Charlie47 said:


> Hi folks, Not only am I new to routers, I'm new to woodworking. I'm a disabled senior with a lot of time!
> I love fly fishing and fly tying. I have decided I want to build fly tying stations. Several years ago I inherited 2 large tools chests with my uncles hand tools. I was going to sell them but I decided to keep them. I will need a router to finish my workstations. I need to ask a few questions before I purchase. Also I am on a limited income being a senior. I thought I would start with the best quality from Harbor Freight. In the future I will upgrade but I need an economical starting place with a warranty.
> 
> My questions:
> ...


I tie flies also and would think that if you make a right size hole on your table for hooks, etc. the grain of the wood will not make it easy to pick up the small parts. I use small fly boxes for small hooks, etc... Sometimes I use plastic tweezers. If you decide to use the Forstner bit for making your small parts holder, line it heavily with urethane or resin to make it smooth.

Ask away...obviously my answers were brief but you ask good questions and may require additional discussion. Do you have a particular project in mind...? It will help to focus our answers.

Hope this helped...


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Charlie; welcome!
> Power isn't the first question you need to consider, what feels right in your hands, and is well supported by the manufacturer are two really important factors. Many first time router buyers are swayed by (low!) prices and then suffer 'buyers' remorse'.
> A lot of us here have Bosch 2 1/4 hp routers and are really pleased with them.
> 'Cherryville Chuck' swears by his Hitachi routers, there are also many DeWalt owners.
> ...


Thanks so much, sorry about my badly ask question, Concave! Again thanks!


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Another suggestion is that if you can find some small cups, or lids a suitable size to fit your needs.A forstner bit in a drill motor will do to make a recess for them to fit into. 
Herb


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Charlie47 said:


> Thanks so much, sorry about my badly ask question, Concave! Again thanks!


Guys thanks so much, your awesome and very appreciated!


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Charlie...welcome to the forum...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Another suggestion is that if you can find some small cups, or lids a suitable size to fit your needs.A forstner bit in a drill motor will do to make a recess for them to fit into.
> Herb


Re Herb's suggestion...
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/storage/containers/102140-watchmakers-cases
I see them all over, dollar stores etc.; waaay less expensive than Lee Valley.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> Hi folks, Not only am I new to routers, I'm new to woodworking.
> I'm a disabled senior with a lot of time!


Hi Charlie and welcome to the forums...
1st lets get that new shine toned down a tad...
*This here link* will take you to a collection of how to articles and information on routering...
above all it will cover safety... none of us like the sight of ''accidents'' even if they're not our own...

BTW..
most of us here are seniors or a fuzz older...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> I love fly fishing and fly tying. I have decided I want to build fly tying stations.


what type or level do you want to build????
see the pics...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

this is my favorite...

.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> 1... I will need a router to finish my workstations.
> 2... Also I am on a limited income being a senior.
> 3... I thought I would start with the best quality from Harbor Freight.
> 4... In the future I will upgrade but I need an economical starting place with a warranty.


1...All of those stations can be done w/ a *Bosh Colt Kit* or a *Bosch 1617EVSPK...*
Reconditioned from CPO is a no worries purchase...

2... understood...

3... IMO... not a good plan... 
*picking out a tool(s)...*
1st and most important item, look to the company...
evaluate their CS/TS, will they step up to the plate should there be any issues...
look to see if they have a planned obsolesce program in force...
there's no sense in buying something that can't be fixed in a few years or parts to be had...
what will the company and their product do for me...
figure out if they will respect you in the morning... 

*next the product...*is it quality???...
will it have a long productive life???...
will it do more than I need it to. Go the extra mile and not complain or break???....
is it a good value???...
will it protect/accent my bottom line???...
will it go/be obsolete or become disposable in short order...
after the purchase; will there be intangible costs connected to it???

tools that don't cut the mustard, suffer down time, hurt production and the bottom line need to left on the store's shelf...

tools that don't cut the mustard, suffer down time, hurt production and the bottom line need to left on the store shelf...

and yes.. we will help you spend *YOUR* money and not have any qualms about it...

4... take that money and invest it in a one time purchase...

_*WHY I LIKE BOSCH...*_
2nd to none CS/TS support (American based) that's absolutely painless... They even been known to support some of their tools that have been discontinued...
Their tools are real work horses...
planned obsolesce isn't an issue w/ Bosch as it is w/ so many other manufactures and come w/ all around less grief... 
their tools last, even for decades after hard heavy use..
they make tools that protect your bottom line which makes them a very good investment... 
what is not to like...
Besides being comfortable to use routers, they are feature rich, have excellent bullet proof soft start, finite depth adjustment, quality collets, and so much more... 
I think and believe Bosch to be an excellent outstanding company w/ superb products come routers... 

Keep in mind, that saving some money now just may cost you a lot more down the road... So, do yourself a huge favor and get Bosch...
Bosch consistently scores high in/on all categories of quality, CS/TS, reliability and support, and they are as close as a phone call and your mail box...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> My questions:
> 1. What power should I start with?
> 2. Plunge or fixed?
> 3. 1/4" or 1/2"
> ...


1... I'd start w. a Bosch 1617EVSPK... because..
2... it will give you both...
3... it will give you both..
4... yes on the table and no for the same brand.. 
but you can build your own... (see the PDF's)...
you can use the fixed base from the 1617 in your shop built table... win/win....
5... yes....

.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh...Charles is going to disconnect from the internet. (information overload!)


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I am also a Bosch 1617 EVSPK kit fan. CPO seems to have then at an OK price. 

If possible, I'd stick with the half inch collet models, whatever you choose to buy. Be careful to note whether the collet is imperial (inches) or metric. Some imported stuff is showing up metric, but most of the bits here are imperial.

I like my little Bosch Colt, but with a plunge base added, it's pretty close to the CPO refurbished price, and it is only for 1/4 inch shanked bits, and I would not consider using a bit much larger than an inch across in it for safety reasons, and even then I'd never make a very deep cut, not more than 1/8 inch per pass and running at a lower speed. 

One nice thing about the Bosch kit is you can use the fixed base in a simple router table. And they have a key you can use to make fine height adjustments from above your table. Table mounted routers are much safer to use than freehand. The plunge base lets you preset plunge depth, which is nice for limiting the depth of your cut, and the bit withdraws when you let up on it, a safety thing.

Whatever you choose to get, do take time to read the material Stick put up. Probably more information than in any book on routing and it could save you some grief.

We'll all look forward to seeing your efforts, you can drag and drop pictures on your hard drive into the space just below your post.

Most of us here are older guys, with a few youn'uns scattered here and there. A lot of us, like Stick, are teachers at heart and we love helping people getting started in the hobby, or should I say, addiction. 

Take a picture of your dad's tools so we know what you have available to work with when we make suggestions. Stains and finishing was a complete mystery to me at first, so you'll be running into that issue pretty soon, and we'll have lots of suggestions to offer.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> I need to make 2" indentions in the table tops for fly parts like hooks etc. How do I get them perfectly round, about 1/4"
> in depth?


Phil covered the inset dish w/ the bowl bit well...
for a template, a hole bored in piece of scrap w/ a fostner bit (you want a really clean shouldered hole that a holesaw won't give you)....
I found an inset mortise to hold your component jars works better more often than not...
*small cat bowls* work out really great too...

if you don't have a drill press, drill guides are cheap or easy to build...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> I promise I won't be a pest!
> Kind Regards,
> Charlie47


please do...
We can tell from here you have so many more questions...
and we have plenty more answers...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Heh...Charles is going to disconnect from the internet. (information overload!)


hey!!!!!!
I heard that....


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Re Herb's suggestion...
> https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/storage/containers/102140-watchmakers-cases
> I see them all over, dollar stores etc.; waaay less expensive than Lee Valley.


salve jars/tins...
pill organizers.. 
med bottles..
all from your local pharmacy...
in just the right sizes...
durable...
water/oil proof...
and *FREE!!!*... at least from my pill pusher...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Charlie...let's try this...

If you are building portable fly tying stations, you won't need anything more than a 1/4" trim router and a few bits.

HF does have a trim router and it will do you fine, depending on your experience. It is light and easy to use although some of the parts are plastic and you will need to be careful with the clamp-down mechanism. This mechanism is what holds the motor to the case and is important to setting bit height.

Here's the link... Take a look at it, put it in your hand and see if it feels right. https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=trim router

When you see it you will note the plastic wheel and plastic case for holding the motor...that's what I described earlier.

Best way to make the circular recesses is with a drill press and Forstner bit if you want them squared at the bottom. For example, if you were putting a container in the recess. See HF bits here... https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=forstner drill bit set

If you want to look at router bits, check out the HF set... https://www.harborfreight.com/carbide-tip-woodworking-router-bit-set-pc-68872.html

As you said, you may want to upgrade later...this stuff will get you started...


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Welcome to the club Charlie. Seems your questions certainly got some solid results. As you ca see there are plenty of knowledgeable folks to help you along this path and very willing to share their experiences and knowledge. Fly tying seems to be popular hobby and making your stations will open up another satisfying hobby. Good luck.


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> what type or level do you want to build????
> see the pics...


Eventually all, initially, down to the folding cabinets! I'm really confused how the concave indentations on the workstation top are done. I would really appreciate your help! Can the smaller routers accomplish the things I
want to do? I just don't want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff I really don't need, especially since I'm on a limited budget! Thank-you so much for your time and consideration! Have a blessed week!


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> this is my favorite...
> 
> .


Mine too, but that is a long way off! Again thanks!:smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> Eventually all, initially, down to the folding cabinets! I'm really confused how the concave indentations on the workstation top are done. I would really appreciate your help! Can the smaller routers accomplish the things I
> want to do? I just don't want to go out and buy a bunch of stuff I really don't need, especially since I'm on a limited budget! Thank-you so much for your time and consideration! Have a blessed week!


yessir it can...


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> salve jars/tins...
> pill organizers..
> med bottles..
> all from your local pharmacy...
> ...


Actually, I want both places for bottles and the concave indentations!


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

DesertRatTom said:


> I am also a Bosch 1617 EVSPK kit fan. CPO seems to have then at an OK price.
> 
> If possible, I'd stick with the half inch collet models, whatever you choose to buy. Be careful to note whether the collet is imperial (inches) or metric. Some imported stuff is showing up metric, but most of the bits here are imperial.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I tried to only quote a small portion, it didn't work. 

What is CPO? I not familiar with this.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> I'm really confused how the concave indentations on the workstation top are done.


drill a hole in piece of scrap wood to make a template for the dish...
place the template where you want the dish...
place the router w/ the plunge base on top of the template, w/ the bit retracted, over the hole...
make sure the bit is fully w/ in the confines of the template's hole...
turn the router on...
plunge the bit into the wood you want the dish in...
move the bit sideways till the bit's bearing touches the wall of the templates hole...
now moving the router in a clockwise motion carve your dish's circumference...
if there is material still needing removal in the middle of your dish clear it out w/ the router..

you will read and understand the manual before you even start this operation..
and you will practice first to become proficient...

a typical bowl bit and it's cut profile...









if you do not want that radius at the bottom of the hole use a top bearing mortise bit instead to get a squared bottom...
a typical mortise bit and it's cut profile...








*
NOTE:*
bit cutter lengths and diameters come in an unbelievable humongous variety of radii, angles, diameters and lengths...


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Welcome to the forums Charlie


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

roxanne562001 said:


> Welcome to the forums Charlie


Thank-you Roxanne! I appreciate you! Have a blessed week!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Given the tight budget and your desire to do hand work, here are some thoughts.

First, CPO sells tools, they also refurbish and sell Bosch 1617s that have been returned with a flaw, then reconditioned so they are generally better than new. Here's the link: https://www.cpooutlets.com/

Although I prefer Bosch, I think you might also consider the Harbor Freight unit, which might not be right for heavy work, but adequate for what you're doing. There is a limit to how big a bit you can use, but with a small bit with a bearing that runs inside your pattern, you can slowly hog out the depression, then either leave the bottom flat, or use your U shaped mortising bit with bearing to round off the bottom.

For a depression, the mortising bit with rounded botton and a bearing will cuts a rounded bottom as stick's picture shows. The mortising bit is a really nice bit to have.

To make a shallow and very gradual depression (to catch screws, and small bits and pieces), is more complicated and will likely take a lot of hand sanding, or making a convex shape you can attach to a drill. Glue sandpaper to the shape with removable spray glue. Cut it from the center out so it lays fairly flat on the convex surface. Clean up with hand sanding to get a smooth curve you can finish nicely. 

Another approach might just be to pick up a sanding flap at Harbor Freight, attach it to a drill, mark out the perimeter of the concave depression, then run the sanding flap to gradually carve out the rough shape. Start with light passes from the center out. Take your time. Use 80 grit paper. Sand to finish, or better, use a scraper. 

There are metal plates called scrapers that are available in curved shapes that you could use to finish up the shallow depressions. It takes a little research on woodworking scrapers to figure out how to make an edge into something like a mini plane, but the cost is minimal for the scraper. You'll need a burnisher to form the edge. You pull scrapers across the surface and it takes off just a bit of wood each pass, but the surface comes out glassy smooth, and it's cheap. Scrapers produce a wonderful, glassy finish because they sever the wood fibers, sandpaper abraids the surface. The curved scraper will define the shape as well.

Jewelers have work tables with a large cloth bottomed tray. That might be a nice feature.

Here's a pix of a set of scrapers, burnisher, and of a sanding flap. An electric drill will be adequate and they are cheap at Harbor Freight.

I also added videos of using a card (cabinet) scraper


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Tom...
A router plane would be faster and Charlie could make his own...
a spoke shave would work too... another DIY tool...


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> Tom...
> A router plane would be faster and Charlie could make his own...
> a spoke shave would work too... another DIY tool...


Once again you guys are amazing with your help. I have come up
with 3 more questions.
1. What does a 9pc brass Router template guide set do?
2. How long can bits last, can they be sharpened?
3. Can plywood be routered?
I sure appreciate y'all!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Welcome Charlie, from another Charley, but I spell it differently (my mom did this to me).
We exchanged posts on that other forum about your uncle's tools and what to do with them. I'm very glad that you decided to keep them and learn how to use them. 

Even though this place is called "Router Forums" most of us have far more power and hand tools than just routers. You can get all kinds of woodworking help here with both hand and power tools. Since you have little to no experience doing woodworking, I strongly suggest that you start making some small simple projects using only the hand tools that you have. You don't even need a router to start. Save your money and learn the basics of using your hand tools first. Learn how to cut and shape your wood to build some small things. Pine is cheap and easy to find, so start making your projects from pine. The mistakes won't be as much of a financial drain, but reailze too that many mistakes can be fixed, or you can find a way to turn that mistake into a feature (modification to original plan). Maybe it will turn out to be a little smaller than it was supposed to be originally, or maybe you will need to add another hole on the opposite side to make it look right. That's part of the fun of woodworking, to find ways to make it look right, even if it wasn't intended when you first started.

Files and sand paper will round over edges too, but not quite as perfect or as quick as a router, but they are a whole lot safer for the inexperienced. Ask questions here and you will get more than enough help from all of us.

We love pictures, and sometimes a picture makes the written words very clear to understand. Even as a newbie you can post pictures, if they are on your computer. 

Again, welcome to Router Forums.

Charley


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charlie; when you need n answer right now you can't get better than Bill Hylton's book 'Router Magic'...
https://www.amazon.com/Router-Magic-Fixtures-Unleash-Potential/dp/0762101857
It's my go-to resource.
--- Excellent coverage in it of template routing and the use of those template guides.
Sharpening:




----Router bits come in varying qualities, mostly based on the thickness and hardness of the carbide. For frequently used bits buy the best you can afford. For one-off purposes maybe buy intermediate quality. Cheap bits may be more trouble than they're worth.
----Plywood; yes. MDF also.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Charlie; when you need n answer right now you can't get better than Bill Hylton's book 'Router Magic'...
> https://www.amazon.com/Router-Magic-Fixtures-Unleash-Potential/dp/0762101857
> It's my go-to resource.


Dan...
Make this more generic and talk to Chuck and see if you can get this posted to the *Welcome to the Forums* sticky...


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## Steve Pack (Jan 1, 2014)

Hello Charlie and welcome. I have a Dewalt 618 fixed and plunge base and I like it. I ordered another DW 618 and had to return it vibration was so bad you could not hold on the work piece. I received my Bosh 1617 EVS which will replace the under table DW. Table is mounted ion the end of 52 inch Rockwell unisaw. Personally I found that a 12 amp EVS soft start router is an excellent choice. You can buy a package that includes both bases and collets. Both HD and Lowe's have routers in stock so you can see what fits your hands. HD has a 90 day return policy which is great. Buy brand names not HF. Some like yellow tools, some like blue tools and some like green tools.
Ask about router bit brands and everybody has their choice. Whiteside bits which seems to be the choice. Buy quality bits that have c4 carbide for a longer life.
I see that you and I are the same young age and I Hope you like retirement as much as i do.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi again.

Sharpening bits is done with a small credit card or other diamond type hone. You do not sharpen the curved or outside edge of the carbide. That would change the profile. You run the flat of the carbide against the diamond "stone." You're looking to re-form that clean edge. Cheap bits sometimes have flawed brazing of the carbide to the steel body of the bit, and you can't resharpen as many times.

I'm not much interested in bit sets with 30-40 bits in it. I prefer to buy bits as I need them, except for roundover bit sets. I have a set of 3 with quarter inch shanks (shafts), 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 inch sizes. I use these all the time. I am partial to Freud bits because their quality is wonderful, and they are easy to find at HD or online. 

When cutting pine, you get a layer of pitch cooked onto the bit, a good cleaning with a bit cleaner often restores it to like new functioning. Same applies to table saw and other circular blades, an occasional cleaning improves cuts.

The template guide set lets you set the bit inside so the guide (bushing) contacts and follows a pattern. Not something you need at first. I like the brass sets better than steel, but this is an area where the material Stick posted will really help.

Cheap and Chines crappy ply can be routered, but it often splinters badly. I found a sheet one time that had a center layer of fine lengths of bamboo. After routing it was completely useless. If you want a great result with ply, get some real Baltic Birch plywood. Usually comes in 5x5 foot pieces. Apple Ply is a brand I've never seen, but it is just as nice to work with and comes in conventional 4x8 sizes. I have used some HD maple surfaced ply for cabinets and it has been OK. The better stuff has far more layers, and they have filled all the knot holes in each layer with patches so the edge when cut doesn't show any voids. Once you use BB Baltic Birch ply, you won't want to use anything else. 

Which opens up the question of the surface layer on ply. BB usually comes with an A surface and a B surface. A is flawless, B means knots have been cut out and replaced with a patch on that surface. You don't want to sand the finished surface if possible because it is extremely thin veneer. 

Also, Baltic Birch and some other plywood should be stored out of the sunshine because they turn yellow pretty quickly. Just going 50 miles is enough to discolor the sheets from source to home, so I cover them on the truck and I have a tarp over them where they're stacked in the garage. You can't get the yellow out, and different exposulres make it almost impossible to match the yellows. Don't leave edges exposed either or you get stripes of yellow. I also stack them face to face and use clamps to help keep them flat. I store them almost vertical.

I'm spoiled. I admit it.


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

DesertRatTom said:


> Hi again.
> 
> Sharpening bits is done with a small credit card or other diamond type hone. You do not sharpen the curved or outside edge of the carbide. That would change the profile. You run the flat of the carbide against the diamond "stone." You're looking to re-form that clean edge. Cheap bits sometimes have flawed brazing of the carbide to the steel body of the bit, and you can't resharpen as many times.
> 
> ...


There is so much great info here! Thanks so much!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a router plane, a kind of rare item. But you could definitely hollow out the shallow, gradual opening with a curved spoke shave. I was suggesting alternatives that don't cost much. If the budget can stand it, go with the Bosch router. The router plane I have (see pix) cost more than the 1617EVSPK kit. I haven't seen a plan for a shop made router plane, maybe Stick has one. but curved scrapers on a handle are available from most HD or Lowes although a convex radius spoke shave would be a better choice. You pull the spokeshave toward you. It was originally used to round the spokes of a wagon wheel and is an ancient tool. Here are some pix.

Radius Spoke Shave $45 https://www.amazon.com/Kunz-50-KUNZ...582165033&sprefix=convex+spoke,aps,217&sr=8-6

The router plane is by Veritas. I love working with it, but it was painfully expensive. Mostly I just admire it, and use it to clean out the occasional groove or carelessly cut dado. It is very precise and it has an accessory for cutting inlays.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Charlie and welcome. If you are looking to make a concave depression then a bit like this might be the ticket for you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tideway-Ca...F0AAOSwtIFc4avY:sc:USPSFirstClass!35051!US!-1 It would make getting parts out much easier than a hole with vertical sides. To use this bit for that you you must have a plunge router. Trying it with fixed base is too dangerous. Any manufacturer will also caution you that it should only be used in a router table for safety reasons but you can do it safely if you make a jig that locks the router in place so that it can't move once the bit starts cutting. We can help with that when the time comes.

The Disclaimer: 
I have never used this company's bits yet but do plan on getting a few to try at some point in the future. They are a very good price but I can't confirm as to quality. There are some decent budget bit makers these days such as Yonico and this seller has excellent feedback so what I see is worth a risk in my opinion and they have some profiles that are hard to find anywhere else. A bit like that made by Freud, CMT, or Amana would probably be $100 or more in that size. That particular profile they sell in other sizes too as I saw 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" versions of it. That profile is also very handy for making crown molding out of and can also be used for picture frames.


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## lee904 (Feb 20, 2020)

Not sure if you've gotten one yet but I used 



 to help me pick mine. Ended up going with the Bosch 1617EVS fixed-base router and I love it but you might not need all the features that go along with it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Charlie47 said:


> Once again you guys are amazing with your help. I have come up
> with 3 more questions.
> 1. What does a 9pc brass Router template guide set do?
> 2. How long can bits last, can they be sharpened?
> ...


1... see the PDF's...
2... better ones w/ better carbide that well made.. a very long time..
2... sharpening.. more PDF's..
3... certainly can...



Stick486 said:


> Tom...
> A router plane would be faster and Charlie could make his own...
> a spoke shave would work too... another DIY tool...


DIY router planes and spoke shaves...... there's no end to plans and ideas...
use a narrow convex iron/blade on the shave...

.


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## johnjory (Sep 19, 2013)

Don't buy power tools from Harbor Freight. It is a great source for some things like wrenches and rubber floor mats. Just not thing with cheap motors in them. There are many router manufacturers to choose from. A great deal of work can be done with a 1HP router. The only issue is they are only able to accept router bits with 1/4" shanks. Still that is not a big limitation it just means that you have to take more gentle cuts. I like both Bosch and DeWalt because you can get them with both fixed and plunge bases. Going cheap in the beginning just means don't get the plunge base till later.


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Hi Charlie and welcome. If you are looking to make a concave depression then a bit like this might be the ticket for you: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tideway-Ca...F0AAOSwtIFc4avY:sc:USPSFirstClass!35051!US!-1 It would make getting parts out much easier than a hole with vertical sides. To use this bit for that you you must have a plunge router. Trying it with fixed base is too dangerous. Any manufacturer will also caution you that it should only be used in a router table for safety reasons but you can do it safely if you make a jig that locks the router in place so that it can't move once the bit starts cutting. We can help with that when the time comes.
> 
> The Disclaimer:
> I have never used this company's bits yet but do plan on getting a few to try at some point in the future. They are a very good price but I can't confirm as to quality. There are some decent budget bit makers these days such as Yonico and this seller has excellent feedback so what I see is worth a risk in my opinion and they have some profiles that are hard to find anywhere else. A bit like that made by Freud, CMT, or Amana would probably be $100 or more in that size. That particular profile they sell in other sizes too as I saw 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" versions of it. That profile is also very handy for making crown molding out of and can also be used for picture frames.


Hi Cherryville Chuck,
That is EXACTLY what I want, perfect size and everything! Since the bit is large, I hope to get the Bosch Colt, is it strong enough for that bit? I appreciate you so much! Have an awesome week!


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

Hi Stick486!
There is so much GREAT info here!Your awesome dear Sir!


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Charlie47 said:


> Hi Cherryville Chuck,
> That is EXACTLY what I want, perfect size and everything! Since the bit is large, I hope to get the Bosch Colt, is it strong enough for that bit? I appreciate you so much! Have an awesome week!


No.
The bit has a 1/2 inch shank and the Colt has a 1/4 inch shank.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Charlie47 said:


> Hi Cherryville Chuck,
> That is EXACTLY what I want, perfect size and everything! Since the bit is large,* I hope to get the Bosch Colt*, is it strong enough for that bit? I appreciate you so much! Have an awesome week!


NO, it's not powerful enough! You need some serious mass to control a bit that size, and as Cherryville C. said, a plunge base for safe(r) entry into the wood. It's going to want to grab when it makes contact.
Never tried it but maybe a drill press at high speed might work?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sorry, Al; I hadn't seen your comment when i started typing!


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

boogalee said:


> No.
> The bit has a 1/2 inch shank and the Colt has a 1/4 inch shank.


Thanks Boogalee, that saved me! I appreciate you!


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## Charlie47 (Feb 11, 2020)

I hope I'm not going to upset anyone when I ask, however, do any of you awesome folks live in the Dallas, TX area. I would like to visit you and your shops to pick your brain, maybe even watch while you work? Thanks again for your time!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> NO, it's not powerful enough! You need some serious mass to control a bit that size, and as Cherryville C. said, a plunge base for safe(r) entry into the wood. It's going to want to grab when it makes contact.
> Never tried it but maybe a drill press at high speed might work?


I have tried using router bits in a drill press (I think it was just straight bits) and they will work but do a rougher job. Almost all drilling bits have a beveled cutting edge (spade bits and rosette cutters being exceptions I can think of) and a router bit essentially scrapes wood off since the face of the cutter is perpendicular to the cut.

Charlie 1/4" shaft bits are limited to a little to around 1 1/4" to 1 3/8" diameter. The shafts aren't able to withstand the torque generated by larger bits. While the small trim routers are really nice for small jobs like trimming laminate, routing mortises for door hinges, and edge profiles they can't do jobs like you want. On the other hand you can do those jobs and the one you want with a large router so I would suggest that you go with something like the Bosch 1617 or a Metabo/Hitachi M12VC sized router. They are powerful enough to run that 3" bit in a job like that and still do the smaller jobs without being too hard on your body. You may have to go a little slower on the feed rate but they will handle that job.


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