# Better holding power...



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

for your screws in end grain...


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

Good concept but in reality very few people have the skills (or equipment) to drill a parrell hole that close to an end grain, anything past 3 1/2 inches depth is probably past most drill presses cabibilities. I have used a variation of your drawing by using a gun drill (16") a 1/4" threaded rod to (12") to strengthen the end of a piece of black walnut, Today I would use my Kregg equipment and a polyurathane glue and forgo the intracate setup required.

Good Luck - Baker


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rwbaker said:


> Good concept but in reality very few people have the skills (or equipment) to drill a parallel hole that close to an end grain, anything past 3 1/2 inches depth is probably past most drill presses capabilities. I have used a variation of your drawing by using a gun drill (16") a 1/4" threaded rod to (12") to strengthen the end of a piece of black walnut, Today I would use my Kreg equipment and a polyurethane glue and forgo the intricate setup required.
> 
> Good Luck - Baker


aircraft bits, set the DP's fence and 6" of quill travel will give you plenty of guide hole to go deeper....

say the stock is 3/4" thick... 
put a 3/4" fostner bit in the DP.. 
slide the fence up to the bit and lock it down... 
presto... center of stock all done...
swap out bits..
set the stock to the fence...
drill...


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Thanks, Stick. I'll add this to my bag of tricks to make my sons think I'm smarter than I look. 

I've been thinking I'd like to learn Sketchup over this winter. Where would you suggest learning it for doing projects like this?


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> ... say the stock is 3/4" thick...
> put a 3/4" fostner bit in the DP..
> slide the fence up to the bit and lock it down...
> presto... center of stock all done...
> ...


Stick, that is such a simple and logical technique that I'm embarrassed it never occurred to me. There have been many, many times I could have used it and I surely will in the future. Thanks.


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## david_de (Jun 3, 2013)

That is a slick trick Stick, thanks.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

rwbaker said:


> Good concept but in reality very few people have the skills (or equipment) to drill a parrell hole that close to an end grain, anything past 3 1/2 inches depth is probably past most drill presses cabibilities.


If you didn't mind the dowels showing on at least one face of the stock, you could drill them through the other way, like this.


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## PaulH (May 30, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> for your screws in end grain...


Am I to assume that this would be a glued joint, I'm think yes. otherwise why would you go to the trouble of doing the rebate.

I prefer in this case where the actual joint profile does not add to aesthetic of piece to rather use butt joint with dowel joints. Think of rails on a chair. Modern construction !! 

If I would go to the trouble of doing cross drill I would do so to the depth required to insert a cross dowel and furniture screw as below.

My other method is to use Directa screws.

Both the above methods give great holding power with or without glue.

Cheers Paul


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Gaffboat said:


> Stick, that is such a simple and logical technique that I'm embarrassed it never occurred to me. There have been many, many times I could have used it and I surely will in the future. Thanks.


yur welcome...
so now you have a 1/2'' hole and you want the edge of the hole at a 1" reveal...

1/2 of the hole size plus the reveal times two...
or double the reveal and add the hole dia...
that's the size of the forstner bit...
w/ little thought you can do end and edge revels using a stop even if the revel measures are different...


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Andy......I had forgotten about Mathias' approach. That would be good in an application where you'd like the "pegged" look, and maybe more doable if someone is limited on equipment. Both ideas are great. Thanks.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

PaulH said:


> Am I to assume that this would be a glued joint, I'm think yes. otherwise why would you go to the trouble of doing the rebate.
> 
> I prefer in this case where the actual joint profile does not add to aesthetic of piece to rather use butt joint with dowel joints. Think of rails on a chair. Modern construction !!
> 
> ...


glue is optional...
this doweling works really well on bed rails...
don't want to see the dowel - blind it...
install pieces of perpendicular dowels (blind or through) at screw locations... 

dowels/glue are always on hand and variations can be met w/ no effort...
cheap too...


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Another example.
& there are a lot more. The keys to KD/RTA connections that last.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Quillman said:


> Another example.
> & there are a lot more. The keys to KD/RTA connections that last.


That is exactly what I thought of when I saw Stick's wooden example. Never thought of using wood and screws.

Pat, is there a proper name for that connector? All I keep coming up with is stretcher bolts as they were often used when a stretcher was needed on a table or bench to help prevent racking.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> That is exactly what I thought of when I saw Stick's wooden example. Never thought of using wood and screws.
> 
> Pat, is there a proper name for that connector? All I keep coming up with is stretcher bolts as they were often used when a stretcher was needed on a table or bench to help prevent racking.


Knock down fasteners...


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

I used Stick's forstner bit method to locate the center (width) of some runners for a small table saw sled I'm making. Locating the center with the forstner and then switching to a regular brad point bit worked flawlessly. It's a great tip.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

chessnut2 said:


> Thanks, Stick. I'll add this to my bag of tricks to make my sons think I'm smarter than I look.
> 
> I've been thinking I'd like to learn Sketchup over this winter.* Where would you suggest learning it for doing projects like this*?


I take it you were asking me???
I'm Auto-CAD...
but this stuff might help...

Download | SketchUp

the basics...
Fine Woodworking Magazine - Search:...

Sketchup for Woodworkers - Home
Google SketchUp 8 For Dummies (Sketchup for Dummies - just like the books)
Sketchup: a 3D Toolbox - Harwood Podcast Network
Video Tutorials | SketchUp
http://news.sketchucation.com/category/tutorials/google-sketchup-tutorials/
http://go-2-school.com/classes

Plus search on U-Tube and anything you find created by Dave Richards....

at some point viewers are needed...

SketchUp Viewer | SketchUp


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

*Please read through the instructions before executing...*
Backing up is hard to do..

*Sketchup startup...*

Install the viewer...
SketchUp Viewer | SketchUp
Right click the sketchup link you wish to view...
Click on *"save link as" *to someplace you can find it...
Right click on the saved link and click on* "open with"*...
Check the block that says *"open using already installed software"*...
Click *"okay"*...

You should see a window recommending the sketchup viewer to open the link...
If not click on *"other programs"* and hunt it down and then click on it...

Make sure you find and check the block that says *"Always use the selected program to open this type of files" before clicking "okay"*...

From here on out every time you click on a sketchup link it should "auto open" for you....
*
Please read all advisories and windows before clicking on any "okays"....*


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> aircraft bits, set the DP's fence and 6" of quill travel will give you plenty of guide hole to go deeper....
> 
> say the stock is 3/4" thick...
> put a 3/4" fostner bit in the DP..
> ...


Ah Ha! Now I have a new use for my cheep HF Forstner bits!


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

I like that.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

After years on this forum, I still learn new 'tips and tricks'....


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Pat, is there a proper name for that connector? All I keep coming up with is stretcher bolts as they were often used when a stretcher was needed on a table or bench to help prevent racking.


I'd know it as a cross-dowel connector or a barrel nut. But I guess it's quite likely different names will be used in other parts of the world.


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## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

My biggest fear with this method is that the screws expand the dowel and form a lateral split across the grain.

Baker


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

rwbaker said:


> My biggest fear with this method is that the screws expand the dowel and form a lateral split across the grain.
> 
> Baker


I suppose that could happen by using a too large of a dowel and not predrilling...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

AndyL said:


> I'd know it as a cross-dowel connector or a barrel nut. But I guess it's quite likely different names will be used in other parts of the world.


The barrel nut rings a bell and I may have heard it described as as a cross dowel connector too. You're probably right about different names. My brain keeps going back to stretcher bolts. I haven't heard them called knock down hardware before although they could be. That name usually means the Euro style knock down hardware here.


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## Canuk67 (Sep 22, 2014)

Thanks Stick and Paul for these ideas - Although I don't have a drill press its a concept worth holding on to.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Canuk67 said:


> Thanks Stick and Paul for these ideas - Although I don't have a drill press its a concept worth holding on to.


modify the one in the PDF to fit the shank of a forstner only and the bottom of the guide notched large enough to accept the cutter head of the bit...

JIG IT® Drill Guide - Rockler Woodworking Tools
The Forstner Bit Squaring Guide™ | Evenfall Studios


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## papasombre (Sep 22, 2011)

Hi, Stick.

I have used that when I work with agglomerated material but not with wood. Thank you for posting this new use for the same trick.


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