# dust collection



## 62vetteefp (Mar 23, 2013)

I do see a lot of different ways of doing this with table mounted routers. Cannot figure out which way is better for my situation.

Triton 3 hp
Old incra pro fence system
no dust collection above table
4" shop system (no tiny vacuum hoses:no

In my experience using any kind of length in a 1.5" hose or smaller GREATLY reduces the pulling power of the 4" system. Different theory of collection. I use the 4" hose where possible and keep the short/small diameter hoses/fittings as small as possible. Vacuum cleaner experience does not really apply here.

I could go two ways.

One, build the box around the router and add an above dust box port behind the fence that ports into the box. A 4" hose would connect directly to the box and I know this would really suck the dust.

Two, connect a 1.5 " hose to an adapter to get to the 4" hose and then build the above box behind the fence and add another hose to this box. 

Recommendations? How are you collecting on the router test?


----------



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I have an enclosed cabinet with a 4" opening in the back, 4 x 2.5 x 4 wye fitting with the 2.5" line going to the table top. Ported into my original fence, but lost that when i switched to the Incra Pro. Added an Incra Wonder Fence to the Pro a few months ago, so now the 2.5" goes to the end of that. Works very well.
earl


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Necking a 4" down to a smaller size will increase the velocity of the airstream but will also cause the DC to work harder and could heat it up some. I am not a believer in boxing in a router but if you do you have to have a fresh air opening in the box equal to or greater than the diameter of your vac hose.

I am not personally too concerned with what happens under the table. I am most concerned with what is happening above the table where I am working. I only have a shop vac hooked up to an area over, around, and behind my bit and it keeps my table clean and the air around me clean. You could split the 4" and suck from both sides of the table. I would attach a pickup on both sides of the table top. 

It doesn't matter whether it is a dust collector, a vacuum cleaner, or you are just sucking through a soda straw, the same laws of physics apply to all of them.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Chris, for the testing of the Triton TRA001 we are using a Bosch VAC 005 hose which fits in the Tritons dust port. The hose feeds a seperator which then feeds a shop vac. For best results when using one of the seperators a shop vac is required. There is also the Bosch VAC 024 adapter which will fit into the Tritons port and connect to small shop vac hoses.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

O.K., Let's try this again. I have attempted to post to two threads this morning and in each instance lost my text right near the end of my posting attempt. I suspect that my problem may have been that I needed to trim my fingernails which I have did just before typing this reply. It is another one of my experiments which most of you know by now is sort of a fetish of mine ha.

Anyway this post is in regard to the dust collection subject that this thread is all about. Before I added my current system to my shop I was trying to get by by connecting a good shop vad to the port at the end of the Incra Wonder Fence and, in my opinion it just was not satisfactory, especially when the cutting of dovetails for example required that the fence be so far away ffrom the bit. After adding the dust collection system, in my ignorance or just not thinking, I installed the four inch port at the very bottom of the box that goes around the router. Now I say ignorance becaue since then several posts have made reference to the fact that the router being inside of the box may allow it to over heat and I now see that this may be true. I have not experienced this problem and I am now wondering if the fact that the port is at the bottom of the box is causing a fresh air flow to run past the router where if the port had been higher and closer to the bit that the heating issue would be more of a problem. Just wondering. By the way, my typing has gone much smoother and with almost no mistakes after trimming my fingernails, just something to think about.

Just for a bit more information for anybody considering adding a DC to there shop, first of all, I would not want to be without one now that I have one. Mine consists of a Dust Right system that I bought from Rockler and mounted on a rack with casters that I also bought from Rockler. At first, again in my ignorance about such things, I kept clogging everything up. After some enlighting from members of this forum I added a 30 gallon garbage can to the system that is inline with the hose going to the Dust Right System. This made everything work just fine and now nothing gets clogged up. From reading posts on this fourm I am of the opinion that this set up is far from being the ultimate DC system but it works prtetty well and is so much better than not having one at all. It will not work on my TS even though there is a four inch port on the saw, just not enough air flow due to two reasons, or at least the reasons are that first the the small opening around the zero clearance insert restricts the air flow and seecon, problably this peticular system just isn't powerful enough for the application. What I do is to connect the hose from the DC system to ghe port on the saw from time to time, open the door on the side of the cabinet and pust the sawdust into the port where is is sucked up so that I don't have to sweep it up if I just pushed it out on the floor as I was doing before getting the DC. The system is easily connected to the planer, band saw, and/or the jointer. By the way, I do not believe that the Grizzly jointer could operated without a DC. A couple of times I forgot to turn the DC on and in no time I clogged the jointer up real bad. So if you plan on buying a jointer, don't think that you can operate it without a good DC. Just FYIl if you haven't thought of it. Well, that's my two cents worth, and once again, all went well this time after trimming my fingernails. This does imply that in the past, my problem with typing was indeed operator error. Just one more little tid bit to add to the vast number of things to know about wood woring when part of the joy is participating on this forum. I suspect that I am one of the longest winded members on the forum. Just the way I'm wired I suppose.

Jerry


----------



## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

A 2" or 2 1/2" shop vac hose is more than enough for a router, just mount it on the top behind the fence. A 4" is just to bulky IMHO to be hanging off the back of the router fence where most of your dust and chips are. You want to be close to the source which would place it right behind the bit. Don't worry about the small amount that may fall down and I wouldn't enclose the motor in a box to accomplish trying to collect what does drops down.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I would have to agree with you Jerry on the jointer issue. You can't run them without the vac and not plug them. I took the dust hood off my planer because I was spending all my time emptying my dust bag. I use it outside and I just shovel up the shavings.

Although some forum members claim that their enclosed routers run without heating up I still don't see a need to do that. A well placed pickup or pickups will get the job done and leaves the router in the open which makes adjustments and bit changes easier.


----------



## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

*Router Table Dust Collection*

Here is the system I constructed and I really like the way it keeps the aa clean.
1. I made a router table from plans I got in a woodworking book. It is a closed box with a hinged top for bit changes and I added a door to the front mounted with spring cabinet hinges. I added air intake by removing the plywood around and between the hinges. The door hinges are just above the floor of the box. 
2. I installed a 4" toilet flange on the back of the table and a Rockler roter table dust splitter (4" an 2.5" intakes, 4" exhaust to dust collector).
3. There is an electronic blast gate installed that energizes the dust collector when I open it.


----------



## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

After reading several posts on this forum regarding DC, I'm in process of building my own. I have had a small 4" dust collection system I bought at Harbor Freight years ago and have never used. After reading a post from Mike in Detroit, I bought the Bosch hose to attach to my Triton TRA001 router. Thanks Mike, it fits perfectly. The other end fits into my 3.5 HP shop vac but my plans are to use the Dust Right system attached to a 15 gallon drum in between the 4" dust collection system and my tools. I use a Jointech router fence that has a pretty small dust port so I may use the shop vac for that one. I just ordered the drum and 50 feet of 4" dust collection hose along with some adapters to go from Bosch hose to the 4" system. I will post again once I have all the parts and get it assembled and working.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I would have to agree with you Jerry on the jointer issue. You can't run them without the vac and not plug them. I took the dust hood off my planer because I was spending all my time emptying my dust bag. I use it outside and I just shovel up the shavings.
> 
> Although some forum members claim that their enclosed routers run without heating up I still don't see a need to do that. A well placed pickup or pickups will get the job done and leaves the router in the open which makes adjustments and bit changes easier.


Charles, 
In my. earlier post about my set up, I failed to mention that my router resides in a Mast R lift so all adjustments and bit changing is done at the top of the table. Fact that the motor of the router is not in its original bases also adds to fact that it does not over heat, that is only an opinion and is not actually a confirmed fact of course. The base that came with the router which is a PC 893 is impractical to use when the router is mounted in a table. The dust gets between the base and the motor and binds things up, thus the need for the lift which cost more than the router. It is a great set up though.

Jerry


----------



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Rockler has a small dust port that fits just behind a slot in the fence. This probably could be adapted to your setup easily. It has a 2 inch port. This helps some. 

I have a box under the router with a door for router servicing and an occasional cleanout, and with a 4 inch port going out the back. Rockler and some others have a 4 inch T adapter you can hook up to that 4 inch port that has a 2 inch arm to which you can hook a hose from the top port. It takes a high flow blower to suck most of the dust into this. A shield over the cutter tends to pull more of the dust in. Even with all this, you will still get stray sawdust on the top and plate. Some folks cut a small bevel on the bottom edge of the fence so dust has someplace to go other than under the workpiece. My 1hp blower and dust collection probably needs to be replaced with something stronger, so to handle dust on the table top, I keep a brush handy to sweep it up between pieces. I think it would also help to blow a little compressed air in from time to time to loosen up the sawdust so the DC can pick it up. I think those wood fibers lock together and form a solid mass. 

If I were doing this over, I'd probably put the 4 inch port on the bottom of the DC box under the router. Rockler has a wide dust collector they advertise for miter saws...it is like a large funnel with a sizable rectangular top opening that narrows down. Today, I would put this at the bottom of the box so sawdust had a downhill slide to the suction port, which would make cleanout easier and less frequent. Every time the air flow has to make a 90 degree turn in a box, you will lose suction power.

I'm a throat cancer survivor and I take dust collection very seriously. I keep surgical masks handy even with dust collection running and for bigger projects have a favorite battery powered dust mask that pulls filtered air into the mask. The positive pressure also keeps my glasses from fogging. I made a hanging fan and filter box to move and clean airborne dust - the worst kind--out of the shop air.

Hope this is helpful.


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The Triton TRA001 is a special situation, it has a built in dual purpose dust collection port as well as a shroud to deflect dust away from the router. This design will capture most of the dust if used correctly.

If you want to use a seperator like the Rockler Dust-Right, Oneida-Air Dust Deputy or Clear Vue Cyclones CV06 please understand they are designed to work with a shop vac, not with a dust collecter. In fact you can damage these products by using them with a dust collecter and they will not perform as well as they do with a shop vac. There are larger seperator products designed to work with dust collecters.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks, Mike; I did not know that. I'm guessing there's a bunch out there being used


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

...with dust collectors.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

There was a post about a year ago where someone posted link to the plans for a homemade cyclone. It may have been used with a DC or could be scaled up to work with a DC. Does anyone have that link? Shoulda saved it and didn't.


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> There was a post about a year ago where someone posted link to the plans for a homemade cyclone. It may have been used with a DC or could be scaled up to work with a DC. Does anyone have that link? Shoulda saved it and didn't.


Hi Chuck, I would take a look at the Rockler fittings and a plastic or fiber drum. The kit comes with a set of plans and is only $21. I don't know how complete the plans are. My plan is to add a round plywood baffle a couple of inches below the fittings to cause the cyclonic action. The baffle can just hang on all-thread rod. The drum is the most expensive part of this system, you may be able to find one at a local bakery free or for their deposit cost. I have seen a DC system set up like this and I know it works. The guy running the shop said they only had to empty the bag on the DC once a week. That's great for a cabinet shop running 5/6 days a week. They had to empty to empty the 55 gallon drum every day.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225&site=ROCKLER

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000792AA.pdf


----------



## JudgeMike (Feb 27, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> There was a post about a year ago where someone posted link to the plans for a homemade cyclone. It may have been used with a DC or could be scaled up to work with a DC. Does anyone have that link? Shoulda saved it and didn't.


Hi Chuck,

I built a Thien Dust Separator last fall at the suggestion of Mike from Detroit. I will start a new thread titled "My Dust Separator" so as not to interfere with this ongoing thread. It will have a link from another site to directions for making it, as well as photos I took during my build. Soon to come...

Mike


----------



## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I have my router enclosed,with a 4 " port below the router via a "big gulp".The 4" tees off to a 2 1/2" port that goes through my wonder fence.Seperator is a super dust deputy and d.c is a 1.5 busy bee.All works well,no overheat problems at all.Fence port does most collecting when doing edge shaping type operations,the under side gets the chips when working away from or with out a fence.
Also have a scrubber type filter on the ceiling


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

JudgeMike said:


> Hi Chuck,
> 
> I built a Thien Dust Separator last fall at the suggestion of Mike from Detroit. I will start a new thread titled "My Dust Separator" so as not to interfere with this ongoing thread. It will have a link from another site to directions for making it, as well as photos I took during my build. Soon to come...
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike. That was the one I was looking for. I need to build one for my system. When I put my DC in (10 years or so ago) I thought I was solving the dust problem but without a cyclone and fine particulate filter I just wound up re-directing the worst part of it.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Willway said:


> Hi Chuck, I would take a look at the Rockler fittings and a plastic or fiber drum. The kit comes with a set of plans and is only $21. I don't know how complete the plans are. My plan is to add a round plywood baffle a couple of inches below the fittings to cause the cyclonic action. The baffle can just hang on all-thread rod. The drum is the most expensive part of this system, you may be able to find one at a local bakery free or for their deposit cost. I have seen a DC system set up like this and I know it works. The guy running the shop said they only had to empty the bag on the DC once a week. That's great for a cabinet shop running 5/6 days a week. They had to empty to empty the 55 gallon drum every day.
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225&site=ROCKLER
> 
> http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000792AA.pdf


Thanks Dick, I'll have a look at that. The Thien that Mike reminded me of is the one I had looked at before.


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Contrary to most beliefs necking down the hose size decreases the current draw on the motor, not increases. The motor works the hardest when it moves the most air. This is true with any fan, vacuum cleaner, or blower of any kind. Clamp on an amp-probe, or put a 'watt-miser' inline on any fan or blower or vacuum and test this for yourself. The reason a vacuum cleaner or blower sounds louder when you block the airflow is you removed all the load, less motor load less heat. A dust collector motor does not depend on the fan air flow to cool the motor, but a vacuum cleaner does.


----------



## 62vetteefp (Mar 23, 2013)

I am the original poster with this thread!

Thanks for all the comments. I have now assembled the table, routered one board and boy does it suck!!

I have a box below the table with a 4" outlet at the lower rear of the box. I did not go through the bottom because I want to store another router case under it. This did leave some chips on the bottom of the box. I am not using a shop vacuum setup. It is a 2 hp system with an Oneida Super Dust Buddy at the collector which is in a different room with 4" ducting to each machine.

The bit was a 3/8" radius with a bearing. It was fully exposed. There was approximately 1/8" clearance around the lower part of the bit at the table. I was routing a plain old 2x4. There were a few larger chips that did not get picked up but then again they were too large to go through the clearance. If I had the fence in place with its dust pick up it should have grabbed those. I will try that next.

One thing I noticed is that the extra holes(unused fastener plate holes) in the table pulled my board down and made it a little harder to push. I need to decide if I should cover those holes from below to stop the hold down or consider it a plus to hold my board down.


----------

