# help with drill press pls.



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi:

Well, I had to return my drill press. It was a Canadian Tire Mastercraft Maximum and it was a nice little drill press.

I replaced it with a BusyBee CT020N. This is identical to the Radial Arm Drill Presses sold by Grizzly and ShopFox and functionally identical to many others, including the Mastercraft I just returned. So far, I've compared 10 different drill presses and all share the same parts. 

Busy Bee Tools Product Detail

Here's the problem:

When I turn the handle to bring down the quill and the drill bit it is as if the pinion is out of alignment with the rack. The noise is wicked like two pieces of metal grinding themselves to death. This is with the motor turned off. It is much worse with the motor turned on, even at the lowest speed -- 5XX RPM.

I have eliminated the following:

1. the belt has been removed and the problem persists. I put the belt back with the same result.

2. I adjusted the belt tension so it is slacker, no change.

3. While the belt was removed I tried just rotating the front pully no noise. I rotate the pully by hand and bring down the quill, death march.

4. I removed the spring and the handle and the pinion and the pinion looks fine. I can't see much of the rack.

5. I put the pinion back with a bit of synthetic grease (a dab on the end of my index finger in total) no change.

6. I have adjusted the tension on the spring, I've adjusted the spring.

BusyBee is going to send me a new pinion and see what that does. In the mean time, I'm having to work with this thing and if there is something that I can do to make it serviceable, I will.

Have you had similar experiences to this? What was the fix -- the quill or the rack or the pinion? Any place that I haven't looked yet?

Thanks for the help.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Why not just return the whole thing and get a new one? Something is obviously wrong with the quill and/or spindle mechanism. Chances are that, by now, the whole thing is now messed up. Could be a bad bearing, spindle binding, or something else but since it's been making noise, it's likely that metal has been scored. Unless ou want to disassemble the whole thing, bring it would probably be best to return it.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Ron
you say the dp is identical to grizzly and many others. it may look similar, but may be totally different.

i do know that grizzly doesnt sell junk. ive seen a lot of complaints on busy bee. there is a grizzly near the canadian border. is the shipping that expensive?

i agree with Robert, carry it back and try a more reputable company.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Ron...just throwing darts here....

looking at the owners manual for this thing:

http://busybeetools.com/manuals/CT020N.pdf

I'd be inclined to take a look at the drive sleeve and spindle assembly. You might have a burr or loose piece of metal caught in there. You've kinda taken the bearings out of play.. there is a internal retainer ring that may not have been seated properly. One way or the other, i'm guessin' the headstock will be coming apart if you can't get that top pulley off.

good luck...
bill


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I have no idea how the drill is put together. but it sounds like the rack, or pinion gear is loose. If the bolts are used to hold the gear part is loose,it can sound like they are tearing the metal apart. If any part is misaligned, or loose, it could cause the same results. I know that it sounds terrible. I agree with the others, get a new one. If Grissley is better, I would try that. You can check the rack and pinion just by moving the handle, i would guess. The movement, and action You get from it should be solid, and it should move without any noise, or feeling the movement of the of the gears meshing against each other. It's a bad experience to have a new tool that doesn't work properly, It can make turn around, and never try that brand again. I wish You a much better experience the next time.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Ron mine makes no noise whatsoever. I agree you should return it and request a replacement. Why should you be responsible for repairing the issue?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi All:

Thanks for the responses.

I had to drive 5 hours each way on two separate weekends to get this. I'm not about to make that trip again unless I absolutely have to.

Levon, I agree, this should not be junk but this one is. Yes, it is identical to the Grizzly and Jet models. It is parts replaceable identical.

To the others suggesting I take it back, if I were closer, I wouldn't touch a bolt. However, I have a unique opportunity to learn how a drill press is assembled and adjusted. That also means that I get to learn how to modify it to meet my specific requirements. I'm not about to pass that up. 

I firmly believe that these drill presses use the same basic components to populate all of their models and add "features" to adjust the price as needed. My objective is to fix this problem, learn and upgrade all at the same time.

However, I still need to learn from you and how you resolved problems with drill presses. They're pretty simple when you start to look closely at them.

However I will take all your councils and examine more thoroughly, especially the rack and spline. However, it is possible that it is the head casting itself.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

I vannot help with the specific of this item but I can offer moral support: Buying big machines (or anything else for that matter) from Busy Bee is a crap shoot.

I am in the same boat with their band saw and even worse, the CT039 lathe. They will send you the parts but the parts do not always fit. I have had to do a stack of work on my unit already and feel that I have not found all the hidden faults.

Cost of living in a small rural community...


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

crquack said:


> I vannot help with the specific of this item but I can offer moral support: Buying big machines (or anything else for that matter) from Busy Bee is a crap shoot.
> 
> I am in the same boat with their band saw and even worse, the CT039 lathe. They will send you the parts but the parts do not always fit. I have had to do a stack of work on my unit already and feel that I have not found all the hidden faults.
> 
> Cost of living in a small rural community...


Hi Crquack:

You have an advantage with the band saw, it is dead simple. However, putting the riser in isn't a treat. What a job. The problem with the band saw is that the castings are still rough and in some cases needed to be "tuned."

No experience with the lathe though. Sorry, can't help there.

Thanks for speaking up though.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Guess I've been lucky so far. Craftex Jointer, Radial Drill Press, 1HP Dust Collector, Bench Mortiser, and all have worked as advertised. But there are a lot of things I WOULDN'T buy from them.


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## Dereklee (Jul 15, 2010)

CanuckGal said:


> Guess I've been lucky so far. Craftex Jointer, Radial Drill Press, 1HP Dust Collector, Bench Mortiser, and all have worked as advertised. But there are a lot of things I WOULDN'T buy from them.


just wondering what's the "a lot of things"..


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

A few examples: their dovetail jig, saw blades, drill bits, woodworking lathes or any machine over 400.00. If I am going to pay that price I am going to buy a well known good brand name. Craftex and King Tools rank about the same for me. The machines I have bought from them have been on sale and price was the driving factor. But if I had had an issue with any of them I would not have hesitated to return them.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Deb & Derek:



CanuckGal said:


> A few examples: their dovetail jig, saw blades, drill bits, woodworking lathes or any machine over 400.00. If I am going to pay that price I am going to buy a well known good brand name. Craftex and King Tools rank about the same for me. The machines I have bought from them have been on sale and price was the driving factor. But if I had had an issue with any of them I would not have hesitated to return them.


Dovetail Jig: Well, BusyBee's is the same as everyone else selling a simple jig for making dovetails. Almost everyone sells the same dovetail jig and the prices are all over the place. As far as dovetail jigs go, BusyBee's is as the same as anyone else's except it is more complete than most and their manual is far better. You want a "don't go there?" try Porter Cable's gold plated model.

Saw Blades: same as everyone else's made in China.

Drill Bits: same as the saw blades

Woodworking Lathes: they look the same as everyone else's and probably are but it's not a "Oneway."

Machines over $400: well, I paid $499 for my Ridgid saw and it is identical to the one now being sold by BusyBee. I drool over their milling machines and metal lathes. Everytime I need something done and have to pay $75 per hour for a small milling job all I can think of is: "Oh how I could use a few of those machines!"


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Ron I think Craftex and King Tools are part of that whole quality control trickle down effect. If it's not good enough to be branded "Ridged" or "General" or something similar it ends up as a Craftex or King model. Chinese clones are rampant in everything. The only things that make them different are slight variations in quality of workmanship AND materials. This applies to the blades and bits as well. Cheaper carbides, poor tip brazing, etc. Frankly I know Canadian Tire's MasterCraft is a cheap brand, but I buy them because they come with a no hassle lifetime warranty and I can usually get them for a decent price when on sale. I don't have to register my tool or need the reciept to get a replacement. Noted that not ALL their tools carry the lifetime warranty, but most of the hand tools do. Many of the Jobmate tools they sell are total clones of their Mastercraft brand, but a much lower quality and hence don't have the warranty. And if you have ever bought and used a Jobmate tool, it doesn't take long to find out what gabage they really are. 
I have a toolbox full of Mastercraft tools I use at work. (I'm an industrial mechanic.) The only thing I ever had to replace was a pry bar that one claw broke off of under intense use. I took it in to CT and got a brand new one.. no questions asked. I've used these tools daily for 25 years, so I would say the quality is definitly there.
I would love to have a milling machine and a metal lathe too! But I wouldn't buy the Busy Bee ones. They just don't appear to have the right "quality" for a high tolerance machine. JMHO


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Deb:



CanuckGal said:


> Ron I think Craftex and King Tools are part of that whole quality control trickle down effect. If it's not good enough to be branded "Ridged" or "General" or something similar it ends up as a Craftex or King model.


We will agree to disagree, for the moment. I specifically studied dovetail jigs when I bought my Samona dovetail jig in Tegs in Hamilton. I picked up the General International but Miche pointed me to the Samona saying it was identical and less money. When I ordered the 1/4" template for mine, Miche ordered ShopFox. It was less money, again. All three brand names, three different prices, identical products. That's when I started taking a long hard look at common elements in tools.



> Chinese clones are rampant in everything.


I don't have a problem with Chinese stuff. A lot of the BusyBee stuff comes from Taiwan from the same suppliers that SteelCity and Delta use. It's not the Chinese that bother me, it's the North American executives that cheapen the specifications to fatten their own wallets.



> The only things that make them different are slight variations in quality of workmanship AND materials. This applies to the blades and bits as well. Cheaper carbides, poor tip brazing, etc.


I agree with you. But the question remains, is it the Chinese craftsmen or the Branding Company's executives at fault. The Chinese craftsmen are every bit as good as North American ones. Given half a chance they can produce excellent product.



> Frankly I know Canadian Tire's MasterCraft is a cheap brand, but I buy them because they come with a no hassle lifetime warranty and I can usually get them for a decent price when on sale. I don't have to register my tool or need the reciept to get a replacement.


And I join you in that belief. I used to buy Sears but recently I've had problems with their "guarantee." Soooo, no more Sears, anything.

When you compare Sears with CTC stuff, you're absolutely right, Mastercraft Maximum is good stuff. Mastercraft ain't bad and Jobmate is definitely occasional use. Notice I didn't say "junk." I rate tools differently than you do. I rate tools as "shelf dressing/occasional use ," "active homeowner doing his/her thing" and "industrial mechanic."

I learned this the hard way. I parked a perfectly good 3/4" Craftsman Drill on the shelf and forgot about it. Several years later we moved to a farm and all of a sudden I had a use for an electric drill. I dug out the drill and proceeded to start to use it in the barn only to have it seize up on me. When I took it to the store for repair, the fix-it guy told me I should have used a drill with bronze bushings instead. They retain their lubrication whereas greased bearings dry up over time, when not in occasional use.



> Noted that not ALL their tools carry the lifetime warranty, but most of the hand tools do. Many of the Jobmate tools they sell are total clones of their Mastercraft brand, but a much lower quality and hence don't have the warranty. And if you have ever bought and used a Jobmate tool, it doesn't take long to find out what gabage they really are.
> I have a toolbox full of Mastercraft tools I use at work. (I'm an industrial mechanic.) The only thing I ever had to replace was a pry bar that one claw broke off of under intense use. I took it in to CT and got a brand new one.. no questions asked. I've used these tools daily for 25 years, so I would say the quality is definitly there.
> I would love to have a milling machine and a metal lathe too! But I wouldn't buy the Busy Bee ones. They just don't appear to have the right "quality" for a high tolerance machine. JMHO


Yup, our experiences are similar but not the same so on some points, we'll agree to disagree, for the moment and on other's we're in complete agreement. 

I'll win you over eventually ;-)


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm good with that.


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## crquack (Oct 10, 2008)

The difficulty buying things in Canada is: Where do you go?

Craftex metal lathes are what they are. The consensus in the 9x20 (which is what I have) community is that there is really no difference in the machines from different vendors except paint. Do you believe that the machine sold by KBC tools for $200 more than the Craftex is any better? OTOH I defy you to get a "well-known brand (read American or European made) for less than 5-times the money you pay for the Craftex. More like 10-times if new.

Most people who have 9x20s have accepted them as tool kits which have to be worked on to make them into useable tools. Having said that, even with minimum effort my machine does what I want it to do (I do not work to 0.0001"!).

The difference is in the after-care. The Busy Bee head office are glad to send things out to you but what you do with them is esentially up to you. I am not sure that the same service would be forthcoming from other Canadian vendors with whom I have some experience. In the US, pople seem to like buying Grizzly machines because their customer service is legendary (to which I am happy to testify), as opposed to, say, HF.

Not all machines from Busy Bee are Craftex. I got my Delta wood lathe from them and have not had a single regret.

All in all I must have dropped close to $10,000 in Busy Bee over the years and only some items had to go back. I have developed a policy of buying a bunch of things a month or two before I go to Vancouver. This gives me a chance to try them out and take the failures with me to return in their store: Their policy of making you pay shipping on return items is a bit of a pain, particularly if the item is heavy.

I think King products are a completely different kettle of fish: They are crap which is also shamelessly overpriced. I will go to great lengths to avoid buying King products.

Mastercraft and its brethren are a crap shoot at best. However, the return policy and the frequent sales make taking the occasional chance worth taking (this weekend the 4.5" 7A grinders are on sale for $20 - again! I have three already...)

Sadly, sometimes you just cannot get the items in Canada at all or not without paying extortionate price (try getting a good quality 4" rotary table). That is when one carefully calculates the shipping costs and finds a dealer in the USA who is prepared to ship to Canada and *not* do so by UPS...


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

> Sadly, sometimes you just cannot get the items in Canada at all or not without paying extortionate price


That is the truth for sure! Even with the dollar near par, we still pay 2-3 times the price of the same item in the US. Not just tools, as I have learned recently trying to buy aftermarket car parts. One part I ordered from GMparts direct sells for 15.00 on the US website. On the gmparts direct Canadian website it was 48.00 BEFORE shipping costs. The freaking car was built IN Canada. 

My other bain is woodworking magazines. Why are the subscriptions 2-3 times as much in Canada? Postage is cheaper in the US. 

Sorry.. needed to rant.:angry:


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

crquack said:


> ...and *not* do so by UPS...


Hi Crquack:

I have to recount an experience for those not familiar with UPS tactics. I purchased a handle for my floor jack from the importer/manufacturer in the U.S. Now, I am a private citizen, not a huge corporation and certainly not in the import business so I'm not going to incur long tie-ups in Customs and other assorted paperwork. The handle was about $18 U.S. With shipping it comes out to about $25 - $35 U.S. 

UPS added another $40 in "customs costs and brokerage costs." Delivery took several weeks.

By comparison the US Postal Service and Canada Post managed to stumble their way through getting a rebuild kit for the same jack to me in 9 days. Shipping was $11 U.S.

If you're shipping across the border, beware UPS executives have figured out another way to pad their wallets.


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

The 2 times I had to deal with shipping to Canada, I was told to send only via USPS (not UPS) and to make sure I wrote "waranty replacement return" on the paperwork. It is a hassle. Hopefully, this will change someday.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

CanuckGal said:


> ... One part I ordered from GMparts direct sells for 15.00 on the US website. On the gmparts direct Canadian website it was 48.00 BEFORE shipping costs. The freaking car was built IN Canada.


NAFTA. Because Canada negotiated with the U.S. Federal Government and not the individual states, we are bound to the treaty but individual 'states are not. Next you have to remember that various Conservative Governments have bowed to US pressure to cripple the Canadian automobile industry. GM's biggest fear is that Opel will come to Canada. The last time a Canadian manufacturer built a car in Canada, GM bought it out at a ridiculous price to keep it off the market. (McLaughlin Buick) Not to mention the Bricklin brings the Tucker to mind.



> My other bain is woodworking magazines. Why are the subscriptions 2-3 times as much in Canada? Postage is cheaper in the US.
> 
> Sorry.. needed to rant.:angry:


With the advent of this forum and others like it, I find no need for magazines. They're grossly out of date, full of little real information and the advertisements haven't changed in years.


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