# How much accuracy can you get from a $249 tablesaw(Ridgid Meets Incra)



## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

The table saw is the most used tool you're going have in your arsenal, but lets face it, good table saws are super expensive and big and heavy and even at best the fence is still well... sub-standard on most of them, forcing yet another expensive purchase to get the accuracy and precision you want and expect from a table saw fence.

Please note this tablesaw has its limits and is not built to play with the big saws but it can deliver incredible accuracy you would get from a highend tablesaw. For most projects like picture frames kitchen cabinet doors and whatever you want to throw at it that will fit on the table.. its game. 

So are there any other options for someone that has a small workshop or a small budget? Is the $5000 dream saw out of reach? Well there's something here that might tickle your fancy or just make you say ya right or make you go duh!! The table Saw here is the Ridgid TS4516 10" portable contractor's saw you can find at Home Depot on sale for a whooping $249.00. Hey!! even the 36T rip blade that comes with it is fairly good, but these portable table saws have their limits and it's the power of motor and the size of the table, but for most smaller projects it's more than adequate if you spend the time to give it a tune up, or in this case an overhaul with some Incra goodiesto trick it out. 

Ok. On to the good stuff... I started off by squaring up the blade and the fence. It was an easy task with the adjustments on the rear of the chassis. After that I checked the arbor runout with dial indicator. Great news, it hardly moved the needle as I turned the arbor full rotatations. This shows that Ridgid put some quality into the design. 

With this out of the way, it was time to give this little saw a home inside of a 36 X 24 X 3/4 euro cabinet I found at the local Ikea scratch and dent section for a meager $29. I added wheels and levelers and a 60 X 30 X 1 1/8" high pressure melamine top I cut to fit around the saw table. I fastened down the top using a pocket hole jig and screws, making this top rock solid to the cabinet. Plus, for good measure, I added extra pocket holes and screws at the base making it even stronger. 

The cutoffs left from the top were added to stiffen the base cabinet to prevent twist while moving it around. The work bench behind the saw is set at the same height so it can double as an outfeed table for longer cuts. The Ridgid 36T blade was replaced with the Freud Thin Kerf 60T Ultra fine finish crosscut blade, (NOTE: I recommend the use of 3 1/2 blade stiffeners with a kerf under 1/8 to minimize blade flutter and vibration and of course, blade noise.) Yes, they're worth every penny if you really care about precision like I do. 

So what makes this saw so accurate down to 0.001? It's the Incra 25" LS Positioner and fence I adapted from my Incra router table system. I just wanted to see if this would work as good as it does on my router table. Oh hell ya!! Even at a full 25" cross cut it's spot on everytime! No matter where you set it. It's very easy to square up to the blade. Just pull the fence to the blade and pull the LS Positioner clamp up half way and use the micro adjuster to dial it in perfect and then lock the LS Positioner clamp all the way and run a test cut. Measure your cut with a digital caliper because this will help you fine tune the fence to perfection. Once you find the sweet spot, slide the magnetic rule strip on the positioner's carriage to read 0 on the curser line in the window on the LS base and forget about ever using a tape measure again. "The measure tap cut and scrap method" that is so frustrating will never plague you again!

DO I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION YET? OK, SO WHAT WILL THIS COST YOU? 

The Incra LS 25" will run you about $299 for the package or you can buy the LS Positioner on it's own for $200 and add your own fence, or you can get their fence systems for most table saws made today. (more info at Dovetails & Precision Woodworking with Incra Fences, Jigs, Rules and Other Precise Woodworking Tools. They also have some cool live demos.) So there you have it! The little Ridgid saw that has machine shop quality cuts you only dream about for the cost of $750 including the blade, 

(PLEASE NOTE: I did not in any way modify or re-engineer the table saw itself and I don't recommend doing so for safety reasons. I just made it work better.) Here are some pictures of this setup. By the way, I decided this setup deserves a nice set of birch cabinet doors for the storage area below. I also added the Incra Miter Express with the 1000SE miter gauge, this is one deadly accurate combo for any table saw. 

Cheers 
Glen


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

*More Pictures*

Here's the Cabinet completed with the Miter Express

Cheers
Glen


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

*Last Pictures*

Here's the final pictures.

Cheers
Glen


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Glen,
I really like the cabinet you built for the saw.
You have given me some ideas for improving my GMC saw.

One thing I would like some more info on is aligning the Incra 25" LS Positioner to the blade.

Your commentary makes it seem like you aligned the blade and existing fence and THEN added the Incra?

Was it much of a problem to align the Incra to the blade? Prior to fixing the Positioner base?



> Ok. On to the good stuff... I started off by squaring up the blade and the fence. ............................
> 
> So what makes this saw so accurate down to .0001? It's the Incra 25" LS Positioner and fence I adapted from my Incra router table system.
> 
> It's very easy to square up to the blade. Just pull the fence to the blade and pull the LS Positioner clamp up half way and use the micro adjuster to dial it in perfect and then lock the LS Positioner clamp all the way and run a test cut.


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Glen,
> I really like the cabinet you built for the saw.
> You have given me some ideas for improving my GMC saw.
> 
> ...


Hi James

Yes I did square the blade to the stock fence and miter channel when I first set up the saw, When I added the Incra system after, it was still square.

To setup and square the Incra fence is very easy, before you bolt down the base to the table pull the fence up square to the blade and clamp it at each end, make sure the clamp is in the full lock position at the LS base, and then tighten the 4 bolts on the base and you sould be good to go.

Cheers
Glen


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Glen L said:


> Hi James
> 
> Yes I did square the blade to the stock fence and miter channel when I first set up the saw, When I added the Incra system after, it was still square.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that update, Glen.

I have the original Incra Jig. The 17" system is $A595 here in Australia.
The *Incra LS 32 Base Mount and Carriage only is $525.*


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## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

OK I have an issue with the following statement.

"So what makes this saw so accurate down to .0001? It's the Incra 25" LS Positioner and fence I adapted from my Incra router table system. I just wanted to see if this would work as good as it does on my router table." 

.0001" is one ten thousands of an inch you are not going to hold that tollerance with anything wood, let alone cut to that kind of precision with wood working tools, plus the fact your measuring it with calipers. Wood is going to swell and contract several thousands (not ten thousands) depending on moisture and temp, your not working in metal and in a controlled environment.

I worked as a tool and die/mold maker building all kinds of injection molds cast molds, stamping dies, jigs and fixtures etc. for 18 + years before I retired from that trade, most of the machines I used were not even built to hold that kind of tollerance, there are special machines built to hold ten thousands of an inch tollerance, and they are built quite a bit differently then a table saw. 

The only way you are going to even check a dimension like that is with an indicator. I have worked to tollerances of plus or minus .00003" (30 millionths of an inch) and it's not easy to hold tight tollerances as a matter of fact holding plus or minus .005" is usally the norm in most metal working applications.

A sheet of paper is about .003" to .004" and your talking about holding .0001" sorry but I don't think so.

It's a nice setup but holding and working in that kind of precision and tollerancing and in wood no less not going to happen.
:stop:

Danny


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I do believe that should have been .001, one one thousandths instead of .0001 one ten thousandths.


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

Sorry I stand corrected 0.001, sorry for the typo I forgot the . duh!


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## jd99 (Jun 17, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I do believe that should have been .001, one one thousandths instead of .0001 one ten thousandths.


Even at that (.001") holding that kind of tollerance in wood.... :blink: Lets get real.
If your going to work in dimensions, and tollerances of that nature then it's going to be in metal and in controlled environments.

Having been there and done it, I know for a fact a temperature change can change a .0002" dimension to .0004" in no time. that's why inspection rooms and close tollerence grinding/machine shops are all in controlled environments.

All I'm saying is we are working in wood, wood moves, precision wood working??? Guess it depends on the definition of precision.

Danny


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Great job Glen!!! I really like what you've managed to do. I'm a big fan of the Incra line of products. A while back I built a RT cabinet with a LS17 and haven't looked back. 

Must say I'm a bit surprised at what seems to be the quality of the Rigid CS. Minimal run-out on the arbor and easy to square up to the miter/fence. Heck, that can be difficult if not impossible on some hybrids! I'm with ya on the use of stabilizers with thin kerf blades. 

I've been nickel and diming the parts for a TS system for a while now. Can't wait to finally get eveything to put on my saw. Question for ya, do you notice much in the way of fence deflection on the TS? My 17" is rock solid and actually takes some effort to deflect the fence on the RT cabinet. I'm just concerned that with a 25"/32" set up, once extended to the extreme that it might want to flex. Does your set up remain rigid? (pun intended  ) The factory Incra TS systems come with lockdowns on the rails.

thanks
Bill


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

To cut with that much precision in wood yes, holding that tollerances well that's another
topic.
INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence System - NewWoodworker.com LLC


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## Glen L (Nov 24, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Great job Glen!!! I really like what you've managed to do. I'm a big fan of the Incra line of products. A while back I built a RT cabinet with a LS17 and haven't looked back.
> 
> Must say I'm a bit surprised at what seems to be the quality of the Rigid CS. Minimal run-out on the arbor and easy to square up to the miter/fence. Heck, that can be difficult if not impossible on some hybrids! I'm with ya on the use of stabilizers with thin kerf blades.
> 
> ...


Hi Bill

That was my first impression before tried this out, but to my surprise it's very hard to move the fence at all even at the full 25", if you rock it hard enough you can get deflection, but not from normal use. 

Cheers
Glen


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## Tempest (Jan 7, 2011)

I have a Jointech router table and love it. I also have a Jet cabinet saw and have never got around to putting an Incra type fence it but I plan to in the future.

Once you use one of these, you want to put one on everything.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Right on Danny

====



jd99 said:


> Even at that (.001") holding that kind of tollerance in wood.... :blink: Lets get real.
> If your going to work in dimensions, and tollerances of that nature then it's going to be in metal and in controlled environments.
> 
> Having been there and done it, I know for a fact a temperature change can change a .0002" dimension to .0004" in no time. that's why inspection rooms and close tollerence grinding/machine shops are all in controlled environments.
> ...


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

It is amazing how much of difference that a good or even a decent fence can make on a TS. I put a Delta T2 on an older craftsman contractor saw, and has that saw performing like it is new!


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## Woodwarrior (Nov 17, 2017)

I know this is an older post but I just wanted to say that i have a 2 1/2 hp. All trade table saw that i bought in 1978 for $200.00. 
I added a 60" Biesemeyer Fence in 2003 and built a 60" table to go with it. I re-aligned trunion assembly and trued
up the fence with the saw. I have been using it ever since. I can set the fence and its still dead on. (I still double check
my measurements) The saw cuts very smooth and as long as I have the right sharp blade for the cut I am making, I
have never had any problems. Do I wish I had a nice cabinet saw? Yes but with my budget this will do for now.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Glen,
Don't feel bad, I went through the same thing that you are dealing with when I first got into woodworking and bought my Incra LS fence positioner. Looking back now, I think that my issue of accuracy beyond what is possible was due to several lthings, first of course was pure ignorance, but also, the demo videos that Incra has on line sort of leads the novice to expis possible with wood. Some of the members of the forum will recall what I went through as I finally understood how rediculeous my expectations were.The folks that pointed this out to me, over and over again, were always very polite about it.

While I am no longer able to work in my shop due to my health, I would like to say that I finally came to the understanding that tolerance of about .008" plus or minus is about the best that one can expect with wood.

Jerry


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

No pictures visible on this string.


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## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

I did the same thing years ago with a Bosch 4100 on a Rousseau frame. Thought it was the cat's ass until I replaced it with a Sawstop.

I don't miss the Bosch at all. It was great for what it was but it wasn't what I needed for a woodworking saw. Just because the fence is accurate to a thou doesn't mean the saw it's bolted to is. You'll figure that out for yourself.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Glen L said:


> Sorry I stand corrected 0.001, sorry for the typo I forgot the . duh!


As everybody knows that follow my posts, I went through the issue of cutting to .001" when I first began my woodworking and using the 52" Incra LS on my saw. I think that we all agree that the fine accuracy of setting the fence to .001" is what the Incra system is designed to do and does, but just because you can set the fence to that level of precision and repeat that setting does not mean that you can cut to the level of precision. The folks on this forum broke me to lead on that issue and boy was I a hard head on my attlempt to get as close as possible which was an effort in futility.

I do really admire the effort that made to start this threadl, it was extensive and very well done. I think the point of it all is that the less expensive saws can be tuned up and with some modications work extremely well for us hobbyist. The big expensive saws, while nice to have, are really made for commercial work which is much more demanding in regard to how long and how hare they used.

By the way, I used the same dial indicator that I use to square the blade to square the fence, but whan you described Glen sounds like a great idea and I will try it if and when I ever get back into the shop

Anyway, bottom line, great thread and I really enjoyed it.

Jerry


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice discussion. My very first TS was a Ryobe. Had it for about 2 weeks. Found a 1hp Delta on clearance at Lowes for $300. Used it for some time, but eventually the low power got me. It was also annoying in how easy it was to burn the cut. A few years later, I gave it to my son in law and popped for a Laguna hybrid, which has completely altered my woodworking experience. So you can expect to get a little better performance from better and better machines. However, add to that your increasing skill, and you wind up happier and happier with what you'll produce. So I predict that at some point, you'll be more skilled than your tools will support. So in the mean time, make lots of projects for your mate so she'll support you as you step up. 

Don't know if you have other tools, but I am a big fan of the 12 inch WEN drill press (a dead ringer for a Jet, and WEN also sells a 12 inch band saw that does a very good job for the money (same as a Rikon). Not a resaw machine, but surprisingly good when using high quality 72 1/2 inch blades. (I've actually done some decent light resawing with it.)


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

My first saw was a 1hp direct drive craftsman and it got me by for years. It's weakness was the fence but with effort you could get it lined up right and make a decent cut. I upgraded it with an Accusquare fence and that was a huge improvement. I eventually added a Unisaw with Unifence and got power and accuracy without effort. Then I replaced the Craftsman with an old Rockwell and I switched the Accusquare to it. It does almost everything and does it as well as the Unisaw does. I was also in Alberta for a few years and needed a get me by saw while there and got a $300 model. The fence was horrible. It clamped on both ends and the far end was bad for slipping under pressure. I fixed that by gluing sandpaper to it. If I took enough time to line the fence up with the blade then it would make good cuts. So really, it's the fence that is the most important factor on a saw and the blade is next. The rest is mostly power and longevity.


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