# Workbench - router table : connection dilemma.



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

I've got a dilemma at present : how to connect, with hinges, my router table top to my workbench top - and still permit the use of a my fence which I hope to clamp (rather than run in T-track) to the router table top. 

I had intended to join the RT to the workbench using a piano hinge, to provide a solid, almost zero-movement connection. I understand that the RT needs to be vibration free, which could be an issue if I used hinges with any kind of play. However, I've been thinking : a piano hinge would mean the RT and workbench would sit almost flush to each other - meaning no room for the clamp which I'd need to secure that end of the fence to the RT. I thought of other options - normal 'gate' type hinges that would allow a gap to allow the clamp to slide in - 25mm is probably all that'd be needed - however was concerned that this gap and the type of hinges that would create it, would allow vibration in the RT.

Anyone have any clever ideas of how I can solve this dilemma?

I'd like to go with the hinged RT as I have very limited space in the workshop. The workbench is very solid with a 42mm top which overhangs the frame by 150mm. The RT is 36mm with laminate top/bottom, and pine edging. As mentioned above, I'd rather not route tracks for a T-track mounting fence - but if that's the only solution, that's what I'll do. 

Matthew

PS - have attached a very rough sketch of it - have shown 4 separate hinges, but that could be any number.


----------



## ebill (Jan 17, 2009)

matt1710 said:


> I've got a dilemma at present : how to connect, with hinges, my router table top to my workbench top - and still permit the use of a my fence which I hope to clamp (rather than run in T-track) to the router table top.


- maybe I am 'under-thinking' the problem here. But can't you just rotate the whole top 90 anti-clockwise and hinge the back of the table top ? That would leave the L and R edge to clamp to.

- no dimension size to the top on the sketch for the top, but most smaller tops don't seem to be a huge difference in F-B and L-R dimensions. 

- must be some other driving force here I am missing for the tops orientation to the workbench? 

- ebill


----------



## darrink (Sep 7, 2009)

Just some quick thoughts. Probably not ideal solutions, but may lead you to other thoughts.

1. Would a T track in the top of the work bench be an option and clamp the other end of the fence?

2. I'm not sure how deep the router top is, but if you just used two hinges at each end, and space the RT and work bench apart the 25mm you suggested, would that give you enough distance front to back to route the largest piece you intend to route.

Is the pin part of the hinge going to protrude above the surface of the RT and workbench?

Like I said, probably not the ideal solutions, but may help your thought process. I'm sure someone will come along with some other ideas.


Darrin


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

With limited space, I like the hinged RT idea - as long as the surfaces are precisely flush, the workbench becomes the outfeed table for the RT. That's handy. You'd just need to add some height adjustment to the outboard support legs on the RT, so you can be sure the surfaces are co-planar in use. You could also add a couple of blocks on the underside of both tables, so they could be clamped together (C-clamp or bolt/wing-nut) when the RT is up. That would eliminate the effect of any play in the hinges. 

As to holding the fence in position, T-track is convenient, but not the only solution. Why not just add a flange to the back of the fence, drill/rout a slot for a through bolt on each side of the RT? You'd want elongated slots for the bolt on the fence flanges to allow flexibility in alignment. So-called star knobs (purchased or home-made) make adjustments easy. You could also rout a shallow dado on the bottom side to use T-bolts, so the head of the bolt doesn't turn. A thin strip of material, tacked in place, would keep the bolt from falling out.


----------



## downhill (Nov 21, 2008)

How about this idea? Maybe a bit more than what you wanted but you can store it. 

Stow-and-Go Router Table - Fine Woodworking Video

it just clamps to your work bench when you need it.


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Matthew:

Another idea, if I may, is to make the fence L shape. Make short leg from the left end (in your PDF) to the back of the router table. This would allow you to clamp the left end in the upper left corner in your PDF image.

Cassandra


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

ebill said:


> - maybe I am 'under-thinking' the problem here. But can't you just rotate the whole top 90 anti-clockwise and hinge the back of the table top ? That would leave the L and R edge to clamp to.
> 
> - ebill


This would be a great solution, however (not shown) in the illustration is the rear wall of my shed, which runs parallel to the fence, about 100mm behind the work bench's rear side.


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

darrink said:


> Just some quick thoughts. Probably not ideal solutions, but may lead you to other thoughts.
> 
> 1. Would a T track in the top of the work bench be an option and clamp the other end of the fence?
> 
> ...


All good points - thanks! I don't want to put a T-track into the workbench - otherwise that would have been a solution. I'll have to consider the hinges impeding the position of the clamp. I think I'll be able to get some hinges and/or install them in such a way to avoid the pin part protruding.


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Ralph Barker said:


> With limited space, I like the hinged RT idea - as long as the surfaces are precisely flush, the workbench becomes the outfeed table for the RT. That's handy. You'd just need to add some height adjustment to the outboard support legs on the RT, so you can be sure the surfaces are co-planar in use. You could also add a couple of blocks on the underside of both tables, so they could be clamped together (C-clamp or bolt/wing-nut) when the RT is up. That would eliminate the effect of any play in the hinges.
> 
> As to holding the fence in position, T-track is convenient, but not the only solution. Why not just add a flange to the back of the fence, drill/rout a slot for a through bolt on each side of the RT? You'd want elongated slots for the bolt on the fence flanges to allow flexibility in alignment. So-called star knobs (purchased or home-made) make adjustments easy. You could also rout a shallow dado on the bottom side to use T-bolts, so the head of the bolt doesn't turn. A thin strip of material, tacked in place, would keep the bolt from falling out.


Hi Ralph

Once again, some great ideas. I like the idea of clamping the two tables together to eliminate hinge play. I must say I don't understand what you mean about the flange on the back of the fence - so some further explanation would be great, as I'm sure it's another good idea!

Matthew


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Matthew:
> 
> Another idea, if I may, is to make the fence L shape. Make short leg from the left end (in your PDF) to the back of the router table. This would allow you to clamp the left end in the upper left corner in your PDF image.
> 
> Cassandra


Hi Cassandra

That's a great idea - the best yet - although Ralph has a suggestion which I couldn't visualise, so hope that he can explain it to me. So far though, this is the one I'll go with if a better solution isn't proposed.

Thanks!

Matthew


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

downhill said:


> How about this idea? Maybe a bit more than what you wanted but you can store it.
> 
> Stow-and-Go Router Table - Fine Woodworking Video
> 
> it just clamps to your work bench when you need it.


A good bench no doubt, however I'm trying to stick with the hinged one to keep it out of the way, and allow me to use the workbench as an out-feed table. Thanks anyway.


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

matt1710 said:


> Hi Cassandra
> 
> That's a great idea - the best yet - although Ralph has a suggestion which I couldn't visualise, so hope that he can explain it to me. So far though, this is the one I'll go with if a better solution isn't proposed.
> 
> ...


Ah, gee, shucks! Someone likes my idea. 

Hope it works out well for you, Matthew.

Cassandra


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi downhill


I would like to 2nd your post, thanks by the way I have seen this one b/4 but not the video to go with it and the great swing fence that I use all the time on many of my router tables..great for the small garage shop that many have  thanks again for posting it..


=========



downhill said:


> How about this idea? Maybe a bit more than what you wanted but you can store it.
> 
> Stow-and-Go Router Table - Fine Woodworking Video
> 
> it just clamps to your work bench when you need it.


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

matt1710 said:


> Hi Ralph
> 
> Once again, some great ideas. I like the idea of clamping the two tables together to eliminate hinge play. I must say I don't understand what you mean about the flange on the back of the fence - so some further explanation would be great, as I'm sure it's another good idea!
> 
> Matthew


I think Cassandra and I are talking about the same thing - an L-shaped fence, with the clamping bolts extending through the bottom of the "L". 

I used aluminum angle for mine, but the same thing could be done in wood.










Note the slots for the fence-clamping bolts. My top is two sheets of phenolic Baltic Birch ply, with the T-bolts "captured" in a shallow dado between the sheets. The large hole at the rear allows me to remove the bolts (and fence) completely when I want to.

I'm assuming that you're hinging the RT section such that it will drop _down_ next to the rest of the bench when not in use. If you need to hinge it such that it's vertical when stored, and drops down for use, that's another matter. Then, the hinge pins would need to be at or above the work surface for clearance.


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Ralph Barker said:


> I think Cassandra and I are talking about the same thing - an L-shaped fence, with the clamping bolts extending through the bottom of the "L".
> 
> I used aluminum angle for mine, but the same thing could be done in wood.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the pics Ralph - I see what you mean. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that Cassandra's suggestion is the same as yours Ralph. Based on Cassandra's diagram (attached to her post), she has proposed attaching an extension to the base of the fence that extends at right angles to the fence's base, towards the rear of the table. I'd then clamp this to the rear (long side) of the RT - whereas the other end of the fence is clamped to the side (short side) of the RT.

The RT will hang down when not in use.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI

I have used the drown down table for many years I don't have a router on it but it's not a big deal to do it that way.. a 10 min.job and it's in place..with a drop in router plate..I have a inset plate in now for doing pocket hole jobs. it's almost 8ft long and about 3 ft.wide and 1 1/4" thick and great place for just one more router in the shop for long router jobs, do you see something coming for me down the road with a easy to setup and use a swing fence on. 


============


matt1710 said:


> Thanks for the pics Ralph - I see what you mean. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that Cassandra's suggestion is the same as yours Ralph. Based on Cassandra's diagram (attached to her post), she has proposed attaching an extension to the base of the fence that extends at right angles to the fence's base, towards the rear of the table. I'd then clamp this to the rear (long side) of the RT - whereas the other end of the fence is clamped to the side (short side) of the RT.
> 
> The RT will hang down when not in use.


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

matt1710 said:


> Thanks for the pics Ralph - I see what you mean. Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think that Cassandra's suggestion is the same as yours Ralph. Based on Cassandra's diagram (attached to her post), she has proposed attaching an extension to the base of the fence that extends at right angles to the fence's base, towards the rear of the table. I'd then clamp this to the rear (long side) of the RT - whereas the other end of the fence is clamped to the side (short side) of the RT.


Hi Matthew:

You are quite right. My idea is a different concept from Ralph's and your description is right on the money. 

Ralph's idea works well, as long as one doesn't mind slots in the table. (Guys, let's not start that old debate, please!) 

Cassandra


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Matthew:
> 
> You are quite right. My idea is a different concept from Ralph's and your description is right on the money.
> 
> ...


I don't believe an extruded fence requires slots, I have them with mine but have no qualms about removing the bolts and clamping the thing down if the slots don't allow me to put it where I want it. I think maybe with a couple of holes, not slots, along the left (hinged) edge of the table would allow that end of the fence to be bolted and all adjustments made by swinging the fence would work. Pivot the left end and swing the right. Just a thought.


----------



## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi matt:
I would turn the router table 90 degrees, so that the fence would be clear at both ends.
I am assuming that you have room on both the in feed andoutfeed side of your RT.
Hope this helps: And welcome to the forum. Woodnut65


----------



## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Cassandra said:


> Hi Matthew:
> 
> You are quite right. My idea is a different concept from Ralph's and your description is right on the money.
> 
> ...


There are old debates about RT and fence design? I never would have guessed. 

Ultimately, it's up to Matt to decide what will work best for him. I think we're just proposing different alternatives for his consideration.


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Ralph:

Agreed, it's up to Matthew to decide. 

As for the debate about putting slots in the table, my wish was to NOT rehash something that has been debated in other threads in the past.

Cassandra


----------



## matt1710 (Sep 21, 2010)

Being new to table-mounted routing, I'm trying to keep the table as unadulterated as possible - at least while I get used to using it. That way, I'll be able to figure out how/what I use it for - and then make modifications based on at least a modicum of experience, rather than none at all. It would be crazy to modify heavily the table with all sorts of slots and holes - and then find that a clamp at either end would have suited me fine - and be left with holes and slots all over the RT.

I'm a little intrigued about the fence that pivots on a pin - that could theoretically work in my situation - but would involve piercing the RT top - something I'm trying to avoid at present - for the reasons above. 

Following Cassandra's idea - and wanting to use some of my new Trend bits I got for Xmas (!!) - would routing a dovetail pin in the end of a batten of MDF, and a corresponding dovetail tail in the top left horizontal edge of the fence, be a good way making a secure (but removable) connection between the fence and the batten?


----------



## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Matthew:

I would NOT go that route (dovetailing MDF), as MDF doesn't have enough strength. May I suggest using connector bolts and cross-dowels? (Provide a recess for the head of the connector bolt, to avoid interference with the fence face.)

For example, on http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=45375&cat=3,41306 items C and G would be along the line I am thinking of.

Cassandra


----------

