# Are there routers other thanTritons that have above-the-table features built in?



## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

I want above-the-table height and bit changes. Could buy a lift, I know, but it seems easier and cheaper to buy a router with those features built in. I know they are found on the Triton routers...are the present in other brands?

Also, to reduce the cost of building a table, can I skip the plate and bolt the Triton or Triton-like router directly to the underside?


----------



## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

Yes there are. The Porter Cable 892 has above the table depth adjustment. The speed setting is not adjustable from above the table. I mounted mine directly to the underside of my homemade table. I routed out a circle on the underside so that the thickness was reduced to about half and then mounted the router using longer screws. I plugged it into an outlet strip and that is my on-off switch. I bought the combination router kit that includes a plunge base and I have been happy.


----------



## hfortes (Aug 14, 2013)

Bosch MRC23 also has above the table depth adjustment.

Regards,


----------



## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Bosch 1617 does as well.


----------



## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

I made a long dowel from hardwood with a notch on the end. I use it instead of the Triton crank. Works well.


----------



## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

Thanks. Above the table height adjustment is very nice...but how do you change the bits on those models?


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Adding a Musclechuck to many routers allows the bits to be changed above the table. This requires removable rings to access the factory collets/nuts.


----------



## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

About the question of changing bits; The top of my table is hinged so that I can lift it, put a prop in place to hold it up and change the bits.


----------



## hfortes (Aug 14, 2013)

Mike, on the first photo you've posted,we see a Bosch router between other two. Is it the Bosch MRC23?
If not, do you know if the muscleChuck camless quick change type 4 will fit on it?

Regards,


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

The routers are the Bosch 1619EVS, MRF23EVS and the 1617EVS; all have Type 4 Musclechucks fitted on them. The MRF23 is the fixed base, MRP23 is the plunge base and the combo kit is called the MRC23... same routers.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

michmags said:


> Yes there are. The Porter Cable 892 has above the table depth adjustment. The speed setting is not adjustable from above the table. I mounted mine directly to the underside of my homemade table. I routed out a circle on the underside so that the thickness was reduced to about half and then mounted the router using longer screws. I plugged it into an outlet strip and that is my on-off switch. I bought the combination router kit that includes a plunge base and I have been happy.


I absolutely do not recommend that the PC 893 be used under a table if you expect to use it's height adjustmnent feature. I have dealt with this and it is a nightmare. Dust from the cutting get in between the motor and the the base and binds the motor in the base so that that it becomes very difficult to even get the motor out of the base let alond move it in regared height adjustment. The expendenture of a Jessem lift from Incra, which is more than the cost of the router, turned the 893 into a sweet arrangement but don't buy the router and expect it work in the manner you are asking about. 

Besides that, the clamping system is of poor design. The motor is just fine, but the rest of the tool is a joke in my opinion. I need to amend that statement in one respect, I have never even attempted to use the plunge base so I can't really speak to that. In my ignorance I purchased the package before realizing that having the rounter mounted under a table is not a good way to go if you want to use it as a plunge based tool, The inconvenience of removing the motor from the motor from the lift is not at all pratical. I'm in the market for a Makita Compact router to deal with that problem.



Jerry


----------



## frank green (Feb 25, 2014)

*Triton above table design*

Hi,
I've just come off a conversation with Kreg Tech Support about above-the-table depth adjustments on our 3.25hp Triton. Despite their advertising and promotion, it doesn't work. The bit height slips unless you use the locking lever, which is under the table. Defeats the whole purpose of the above the table feature.

They offered to give me my money back, and I'm researching other router options. We've already built a beautiful router table, and don't want to change it.

Good luck.

Frank





Harvey Dunn said:


> I want above-the-table height and bit changes. Could buy a lift, I know, but it seems easier and cheaper to buy a router with those features built in. I know they are found on the Triton routers...are the present in other brands?
> 
> Also, to reduce the cost of building a table, can I skip the plate and bolt the Triton or Triton-like router directly to the underside?


----------



## KenM (Dec 9, 2007)

frank green said:


> Hi,
> I've just come off a conversation with Kreg Tech Support about above-the-table depth adjustments on our 3.25hp Triton. Despite their advertising and promotion, it doesn't work. The bit height slips unless you use the locking lever, which is under the table. Defeats the whole purpose of the above the table feature.
> 
> They offered to give me my money back, and I'm researching other router options. We've already built a beautiful router table, and don't want to change it.
> ...


No where in Tritons advertising do they say that using their above the table feature does not require using the lock as it is intended to be used.
It's not fair to bash a manufacturer because you may not understand the basics of how equipment should be used.
I'm not bashing you Frank, but as you said in another thread you just completed a woodworking course. Please take time to safely understand your tools and how they work.

Ken


----------



## frank green (Feb 25, 2014)

KenM said:


> No where in Tritons advertising do they say that using their above the table feature does not require using the lock as it is intended to be used.
> It's not fair to bash a manufacturer because you may not understand the basics of how equipment should be used.
> I'm not bashing you Frank, but as you said in another thread you just completed a woodworking course. Please take time to safely understand your tools and how they work.
> 
> Ken


Hello Ken,
Yes, one should take time to safely understand equipment. Yes, I just completed a woodworking course to sharpen my skills -- College of the Redwoods Fine Woodworking Program, nine months, six days a week of an internationally famous professional training program. Taking that course followed many years of woodworking experience, including producing furniture on commission. Among those were commissions for furniture for Frank Lloyd Wright's Marin County Civic Center in northern California. So I "understand the basics of how equipment should be used."

i disagree about Triton advertising. I won't go into great detail to argue a point, but its not only been Triton but Fine Woodworking's review that has either confused the issue or just plain omitted it. Phone calls a year ago with tech support at Kreg, which is the US dealer for Triton, further led me to understand that the router, mounted under a table, would have a bit adjustment feature from above. I honestly feel that this has been misleading, and to defend them is hiding behind semantics. On Monday I spoke with another Kreg tech support guy who was surprised to learn about the Triton router's above-table shortcomings, and as I mentioned, with some embarrassment offered my money back.

I don't casually bash a manufacturer. Don't you think, though, that they have an obligation to bend over backwards to clarify their product? And isn't this forum, with registered members, the place to share experiences with various equipment?

This post sounds argumentative, and if so I apologize. Its my frustration with the situation, not your message, that vexes me.

Kind regards,
Frank


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Frank, all routers have to be locked in position so the bit does not move. Some but not all router lifts have an above the table locking feature but they are the exception and not the rule. Don't you think you are making too big a deal out of this? It is still faster to pop a router out of the table for bit changes.


----------



## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

I'm a bit late to this thread, and not greatly experienced in routing. Just a few days ago I mounted the plunge base of my Craftsman 27683 in my router table, after drilling a hole for the crank that came with the router. I removed the springs from the base, to make raising easier, and it raises and lowers easily. Certainly not as elegant as Triton, or router lifts, but also a lot less expensive. It doesn't raise high enough to change bits from the top, and there is some backlash (slop) in the screw thread, but it suits my needs.


----------



## Harvey Dunn (Oct 18, 2013)

I think Frank is NOT making a big deal out this. I'm shopping for a router and had Triton on the top of the list because of the above the table bit height adjustment. I want to enclose it in a downdraft box so the need to reach under and lock it is a big deal...and although I've been reading about routers for months now, this is the first time I've seen this mentioned!


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Harvey Dunn said:


> I think Frank is NOT making a big deal out this. I'm shopping for a router and had Triton on the top of the list because of the above the table bit height adjustment. I want to enclose it in a downdraft box so the need to reach under and lock it is a big deal...and although I've been reading about routers for months now, this is the first time I've seen this mentioned!



One of the nice features of the Mast R lift is that it not only allows above table bit changes, but it also affords one to lock the height of the bit from above the table, the only draw back to the lift is its cost. It is worth its cost, but certainly not a necessity for most people. I for one am very happy with the one that I have my router in.

Jerry


----------



## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Harvey, The Triton does not need a box since it has a dust collection port on it's shroud. As long as you use a hose hooked up to a decent vacuum this combination will capture as much dust as possible.

In case I did not make it clear in my earlier post: None of the routers on the market lock in position from above the table.


----------



## KenM (Dec 9, 2007)

Harvey Dunn said:


> I think Frank is NOT making a big deal out this. I'm shopping for a router and had Triton on the top of the list because of the above the table bit height adjustment. I want to enclose it in a downdraft box so the need to reach under and lock it is a big deal...and although I've been reading about routers for months now, this is the first time I've seen this mentioned!


Harvey,
All three of my router tables have downdraft boxes with access doors, I bought the boxes from Peachtree.

As for the locking 'debate', using a router in a table is no different from hand held. When you change the bit depth with a plunge or fixed base router, whether hand held or table mounted, the darn base must be locked to the router motor.
Mounting a router upside down in a table doesn't change the physics that the base must be locked to the motor when in operation.


----------



## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum John.


----------



## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I wanted to chime in on a recent decision I made. I have the Bosch on my shop built router table that I made back in 2005. While it has served me well I have made the decision to build a new one this Spring. On my current router table I do use the fixed base with the above the table fine adjustment, and that is adequate.

One of the major changes I am making is while I am going to continue using the 1617 motor body, I have purchased a lift. The lift I bought, the PRL-V2 (Incra's version), allows for both fine and quick height adjustment above the table as well as auto-locking. Yes, it is a bit of luxury when you look at the cost of the lift, however, I believe the benefits it will provide make the cost worth it, as well as getting many many years of usage out of it.


----------



## OneWoodTools (Jun 18, 2014)

I bought the big Triton for that reason, did not want the expense of buying a lifter, so far very happy with it, i like the soft start.

The winder works well and single tool bit changes are great, it winds up well above the table to make changing easy.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, I'll repeat what I said after fitting the #11 MUSCLECHUCK to my early model Triton TRA001 hanging under the table, This MUSCLECHUCK has turned a great router into a brilliant one!

Because of the extra half inch height that these chucks give, I suspect that on many tables with many routers that, using the 4mm ball ended Allen key bits will be able to be changed from above.


----------



## Bodger96 (Mar 18, 2014)

I have never seen a router that holds the bit height without locking the lever. On the other hand we have 8 Jessem router lifts at work that have above the table height lock. These work well but are easily broken. Because we do mostly single function on each table we always Lock the height using the lock lever. 

Regards Bob


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I personally wouldn't dream of table routing without setting the lock lever, this applies to any make of router. Even when hand held plunge routing the lock lever should be applied but finger ready to release should a problem arise so the the router shoots up into the safety of the housing. This safety feature alone tells one that PLUNGE routers are safer than FIXED BASE ones.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

harrysin said:


> This safety feature alone tells one that PLUNGE routers are safer than FIXED BASE ones.


Absolutely true. There are a number of jobs that, in my opinion, shouldn't be done with anything except a plunge router. Hollowing out and stopped grooves are two that jump to mind.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

harrysin said:


> I personally wouldn't dream of table routing without setting the lock lever, this applies to any make of router.


The way I have built my adjustable height work table with dual routers, it is a simple matter to reach under the table to lock/unlock either the Triton or the Bosch 1617.


----------



## willcare (Jun 25, 2011)

Harvey Dunn said:


> Thanks. Above the table height adjustment is very nice...but how do you change the bits on those models?


I made the hole in my table large enough for the nut on my PC892 to rise above the table, and then I can reach under the table to press the shaft lock, and all is good.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Bite the bullet and get the PRL V2. It is the last router lift\plate you will ever need.

I use the Milwaukee 5625-20 Router and use the aluminium inserts from Woodpeckers.


----------



## floridagramps (Feb 16, 2010)

*muslechuck.....who sells them, how much$*

Hi Mike,

I first encountered oak park at Mass woodworking show 30-40 years ago and bought their router table. I have been oit of woodworking for past 25 years but now getting active in my retirment years.

I am building a router table into TS extension and am leaning towards a Jessum lift to use w my bosch 1617. Leaning towards Jessum lift but would like to look at musclechuck alternative.

thanks


Mike said:


> Adding a Musclechuck to many routers allows the bits to be changed above the table. This requires removable rings to access the factory collets/nuts.


----------



## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Harvey Dunn said:


> I want above-the-table height and bit changes. Could buy a lift, I know, but it seems easier and cheaper to buy a router with those features built in. I know they are found on the Triton routers...are the present in other brands?
> 
> Also, to reduce the cost of building a table, can I skip the plate and bolt the Triton or Triton-like router directly to the underside?


This on does.
http://www.routerforums.com/table-m...outer-lift-something-you-have-never-seen.html

Al


----------

