# Need Help Finding A Closer For Chest



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm to the point of shopping for a "soft closer" for a cedar chest lid. The lid without the frame weighs 19 lbs. It is 18" x 36" and one inch thick. I have looked on the web but have not found what looks right to me so am asking member of the forum for help finding something that will work.

I think that I may have the piano hinge spotted.

Jerry


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

One of many options 
Toy Box Lid Supports, Weight Rated - Toy Box Lid Supports | HardwareSource.com


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I'm to the point of shopping for a "soft closer" for a cedar chest lid. The lid without the frame weighs 19 lbs. It is 18" x 36" and one inch thick. I have looked on the web but have not found what looks right to me so am asking member of the forum for help finding something that will work.
> 
> I think that I may have the piano hinge spotted.
> 
> Jerry


Hmmm, I thought we had already had this discussion. Did you decide against the Rockler lid protectors?


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

MT Stringer said:


> Hmmm, I thought we had already had this discussion. Did you decide against the Rockler lid protectors?



We did but Jerry and I are just old farts that can't remember s...tuff.

Dick


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MT Stringer said:


> Hmmm, I thought we had already had this discussion. Did you decide against the Rockler lid protectors?



Mike, your memory is much better than mine, I actually don't recall. I know that I had looked at torsion hinges at Rockler which will not handle a lid this heavy and are being discontinued anyway. If we talked about another type of closer, which we probably did if you say that we did, I just don't recall and/or didn't make a note of it as I was not that far into the build. Sorry if I offended you by asking about something that you thought we had already covered. It sort of sounded like it irritated you just a bit, maybe I read it wrong.

Jerry


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Here is your original post.
http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/46048-need-information-soft-close-hinges.html

The Rockler lid protectors look similar to the ones SemiPro linked to.

Getting old is a pain I feel every day. :-(
Good luck in your search.
Mike


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MT Stringer said:


> Here is your original post.
> http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/46048-need-information-soft-close-hinges.html
> 
> The Rockler lid protectors look similar to the ones SemiPro linked to.
> ...



Mike, Mike, Mike, I was not argueing with you, I just said that I had forgotten, settle down, I believe you.

Jerry


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Hey, no problem on this end. I know you will find the right item for your chest. Post some pics when you get through. I have no doubt it will look great.


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## Roodog (Apr 10, 2013)

Hey mate...why not try gas struts? Like the ones that are on hatchback cars. I've done that before with my daughter's toybox years ago and it worked very well. You can even get them second-hand but they've been re-gassed so they are really like new.


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## routergieck (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Jerry
I used some Rockler lid stay torsion hinges not that long ago on a chest and they work perfectly with no extra arm type hardware to get in the way. My lid was over 20 pounds and the hinges hold it at any position and yet it is very easy to open and close. The only problem may be that it is designed for 3/4 inch walls on the chest so that may require some modification if yours are a different thickness. They aren't cheap!!

Good luck

Dennis


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

routergieck said:


> Hi Jerry
> I used some Rockler lid stay torsion hinges not that long ago on a chest and they work perfectly with no extra arm type hardware to get in the way. My lid was over 20 pounds and the hinges hold it at any position and yet it is very easy to open and close. The only problem may be that it is designed for 3/4 inch walls on the chest so that may require some modification if yours are a different thickness. They aren't cheap!!
> 
> Good luck
> ...



Dennis,
I am familiar with the torsion hinges, used them on a lid for a desk and wanted to use them for the lid of the chest but didn't think that they would be strong enough for the lid in that the lid is so heavy, 19 lbs. The 3/4" requirement is no problem as that is the thickness of the top rails on the chest. How many hinges did you need to use and how heavy is the lid that you used them on? Give me some feed back, I have three of the hinges on hand I think and could buy a couple more if Rockler has any left, I am not sure that the hinges are still available from Rockler. They were having a close out ont them the last time that I looked. They sure would be my choice, you have revived my hopes of usng the torsion hinges.

I will be watching for some more information from you.

Tnanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Roodog said:


> Hey mate...why not try gas struts? Like the ones that are on hatchback cars. I've done that before with my daughter's toybox years ago and it worked very well. You can even get them second-hand but they've been re-gassed so they are really like new.


Andrew, the gas struts are on the list of possibilities. However, they, like other soft closers would be in the way of the top boxes that I'd like to have on each side of the chest.

Jerry


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Lee Valley also has hardware.


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## Selwyn Senior (Jan 11, 2014)

Jerry Bowen said:


> I'm to the point of shopping for a "soft closer" for a cedar chest lid. The lid without the frame weighs 19 lbs. It is 18" x 36" and one inch thick. I have looked on the web but have not found what looks right to me so am asking member of the forum for help finding something that will work.
> 
> I think that I may have the piano hinge spotted.
> 
> Jerry


Check out Lee Valley Lee Valley Tools and type lid support in their search engine. One of their categories is a soft close. The unit is about $20.00 and I imagine you would need to order a left and a right to give you max support.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Problem solved, the torsion hinges are available again at Rockler now, I have three 30 inch lb. hinges on hand. I ordered two new 60s, so with them and two of the 30s I will have 180 in lb. capcity which exceeds my requiements. That heavy lid, it might hold steady at 45 degrees, hope it isn't to hard to lift. 

Jerry


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Actually I was thinking about asking you guys in the USA for a list of all the Hardware Supply Houses, It may be a good idea to start a thread about this subject, Jerry this means you, and then list them all, there are a few things that I have been looking for and I have not found them so far and I have long thought that they are available in the USA but from where? and From Whom? Neville


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

neville9999 said:


> Actually I was thinking about asking you guys in the USA for a list of all the Hardware Supply Houses, It may be a good idea to start a thread about this subject, Jerry this means you, and then list them all, there are a few things that I have been looking for and I have not found them so far and I have long thought that they are available in the USA but from where? and From Whom? Neville


Neville,
I'm probably one of the worst people to make a list like you are requesting. I buy a lot from Rockler, Incra and off the the Amazon web site. I think that other will post to your question and be of much more help. I'm a babe in the woods compared to the old timers that frequent this forum.

Jerry


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Neville, I have been buying drawer slides and Blum soft close cabinet door hinges from Custom Service Hardware. Quick shipping and fair prices.

Wholesale Hardware, RTA Cabinets, Rolling Ladders & More | Custom Service Hardware

Bluemotion soft close hinge

Hope this helps.
Mike


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## stacewb (Mar 7, 2012)

lee valley has lots


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## routergieck (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Jerry
I only used two hinges on my lid but it was narrower. I entered your data in the torsion calulator and it came out with 170 in lbs. so it looks like you would need three of the 60 in lb hinges. I will take a look - they may come in larger torsion numbers than the 60 in lbs.


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## routergieck (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Jerry
Just checked and it looks like the springs come in 20, 40 and 60 in lb. so you would need 3 at 60 in lb or if you wanted to go with 4 hinges it would be one 60 in lb and 3 at 40 in lb. Maybe you will be lucky and have that combination kicking around!
Dennis


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

routergieck said:


> Hi Jerry
> Just checked and it looks like the springs come in 20, 40 and 60 in lb. so you would need 3 at 60 in lb or if you wanted to go with 4 hinges it would be one 60 in lb and 3 at 40 in lb. Maybe you will be lucky and have that combination kicking around!
> Dennis


Dennis, I explained that I have ordered two 60s and have on hand three 30s. I will use two of the 30s along with the two 60s to get to the 180 in lbs. that I will need.

Jerry


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## lenh (Feb 27, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Dennis, I explained that I have ordered two 60s and have on hand three 30s. I will use two of the 30s along with the two 60s to get to the 180 in lbs. that I will need.
> 
> Jerry




Hope all is going well with the chest. On the chest I recently finished I used the Rockler torsion hinges. The calculator called for 3 60 lb hinges. I only used two and it worked out fine. I did not think I would like the look of 3 hinges. Also I did not like the 1/8" gap that is created with the hinges. I mortised them into the back of the chest (not the lid). The lid now sits flush on the front/back/sides. Somewhere, someone did a video of how to mortise these hinges. Sorry, but I cannot find it now.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

lenh said:


> Hope all is going well with the chest. On the chest I recently finished I used the Rockler torsion hinges. The calculator called for 3 60 lb hinges. I only used two and it worked out fine. I did not think I would like the look of 3 hinges. Also I did not like the 1/8" gap that is created with the hinges. I mortised them into the back of the chest (not the lid). The lid now sits flush on the front/back/sides. Somewhere, someone did a video of how to mortise these hinges. Sorry, but I cannot find it now.



Len,
There has been a lot of back and forth about what you are talking about and the final decidion for this chest anyway is to leave the gap created by mounting the hinges to the bottom face of the lid. The frame around the lid will be deep enough to hide the gap. This will provide ventilation in the event that some kid tries to hide in the chest someday. I, like you would not like the appearance of three hinges, right now I'm looking at using four. Do you recall what the weight of the lid is for your chest. I'd like to get by with just the two 60 in lb. hinges.

Jerry


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Len,
> There has been a lot of back and forth about what you are talking about and the final decidion for this chest anyway is to leave the gap created by mounting the hinges to the bottom face of the lid. The frame around the lid will be deep enough to hide the gap. This will provide ventilation in the event that some kid tries to hide in the chest someday. I, like you would not like the appearance of three hinges, right now I'm looking at using four. Do you recall what the weight of the lid is for your chest. I'd like to get by with just the two 60 in lb. hinges.
> 
> Jerry


??? So 2x60" (120" = 10') torsion hinges at 180 inch/pounds (1.5 ft./lbs.)... sure you don't need a pulley mounted to the ceiling to lift that? Maybe a remote operated electric motor and hydraulic cylinders? Really? A 10 foot long chest lid? There are certainly design challenges to that.

Please excuse my coming in late to this and trying to catch up on your posts.

I'm still curious and wanting pictures or drawings to see what you are trying to work out... I'm trying to picture what a chest that long would be used for... and at that length, it goes against your design questions you asked about before. Like on the dimensions, size of that going with 1/2" stock... Having a single lid on a chest 10 foot long... Am I reading things wrong? ...because I don't seem to be following this yet.

I think from the other threads, that the hinges for something that long would be leaning towards spring assisted exterior door hinges and dividing the lid into shorter sections (lids). At least from a design aspect.

I am sorry that I am confused trying to follow that. Could someone please help clarify?

From trying to catch up and your posts... (my guess) That this is a window chest along a wall, below your living room windows, extending the length of that wall. Generally the design and utility of those are to include seating, table kind of display and storage. On the storage, the design is usually to divide that storage up internally for organization. The decision to either lid or as a table is integrated into the design by dividing the op into sections... so you have table space and/or access into the storage. Sometimes the storage below a table type top is applied by door or drawers. The decision to used smaller section lids is because of weight, design constrains on having a large single top, organisation... and not having to have everyone get off their seat to get something under a single lid. Or as what happens many times, is that the lids are later used at a table/counter space and then you have to move everything off it to get access to the storage within.

A design might look great, but if it causes my "better-half" to work more, it's going to make my life hell. That and-- I try to listen to my customers and to the reasoning behind their decisions for custom work. That has what has pushed design for centuries. If something is not convenient to use and does not add value to someone, it doesn't usually continue to exist.

It sounds like you are getting annoyed by people's comments about your plan, but they do care about you... and are just concerned that maybe somethings may be what you pictured, but just maybe not thought through to the end(?)(the use part, years down the road...) If they didn't care about you, they wouldn't give another thought about that, right?


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## routergieck (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Jerry

Sorry I didn't read all the posts so missed your comment on what you had on hand. Sounds to me like you should try your two 60 in lbs and if it works;fine, if not add a third 60 in the middle or your two 30's spaced out evenly between the first two. They should be easy to add especially if you are not morticing them in. My hinges work great and they will hold the lid even if its only an inch from closing. I am guessing that if you use less torsion than the charts ask for it may mean that the lid might not be held for the last few inches but will be fine if it is open further. This may be acceptable as it will probably still close very softly and allow you to get by with two.


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## routergieck (Feb 11, 2013)

Hi Mike
Jerry's lid is 18 inchs by 36 inchs and weighs 19 lbs. Most 3/4 inch hardwoods would come in at about that weight because you have about 4 1/2 board feet of material. The hinges are physically about 3 1/2 or 4 inches long but although they all look identical they have different torsion resistance built in so a 60 inch lb hinge will hold a much larger heavier lid than a 20 in lb hinge. The interesting aspect is that the lids can be lifted very easily and stay in any position you wish to leave them. 
Dennis


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

routergieck said:


> Hi Mike
> Jerry's lid is 18 inchs by 36 inchs and weighs 19 lbs. Most 3/4 inch hardwoods would come in at about that weight because you have about 4 1/2 board feet of material. The hinges are physically about 3 1/2 or 4 inches long but although they all look identical they have different torsion resistance built in so a 60 inch lb hinge will hold a much larger heavier lid than a 20 in lb hinge. The interesting aspect is that the lids can be lifted very easily and stay in any position you wish to leave them.
> Dennis


ROTFLMAO!!! Boy, did I get lost with his need for 60" hinges!

A 3' lid and looking for a soft close mechanism? LOL. Okay... following now. So the concern is more geared on safety for the grand-kids?

I think that would be a good lead-in for Harry, Mike and Oliver to finish their thread on the Secret Storage and hidden latches project. That would be better right? Then less worries about young ones getting in at all.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

routergieck said:


> Hi Jerry
> 
> Sorry I didn't read all the posts so missed your comment on what you had on hand. Sounds to me like you should try your two 60 in lbs and if it works;fine, if not add a third 60 in the middle or your two 30's spaced out evenly between the first two. They should be easy to add especially if you are not morticing them in. My hinges work great and they will hold the lid even if its only an inch from closing. I am guessing that if you use less torsion than the charts ask for it may mean that the lid might not be held for the last few inches but will be fine if it is open further. This may be acceptable as it will probably still close very softly and allow you to get by with two.


Dennis, I am inclined to agree with all that you are saying including just starting witht he two 60s. There is still going to be some added weight. The frame consists laminated pieces. The frame being constructed now is 1.5" wide and 2.25" deep and will fit on the front and both sides. The back edge of the lid will consist of a single piece 1" wide and 1/2" thick and attached with it's 1" face against the back edge of the lid.

This adds two board feet to the lid, I don't know what the weight of the lid will become after adding the frame, but the two 60 inch lbs. torsion hinges might still work. I don't necessarily want the lid to stay at any angle, just don't want it to slam shut, I'll have to wait and see how it goes.

Rlght now the cutting of the frame to fit the lid is the challenge. I have cut one end of the front part of the frame to 45 degrees and one end of one of the side pieces to 45 degrees. The miter is perfect due to the use of the Incra Miter Gauge. The opposite end of the side piece of the frame has been left long and will be cut to length later.

The other cuts for the opposite corner will be the trick. The side piece will first be cut to 45 degrees leaving the opposite end long. Once that is done, the final cut, which is the other end of the front or long part of the frame will be cut a bit long and very short cuts will then be made as I sneak up to the correct length. This will be the most critical cut of the entire cedar chest. If I over cut it all that can be done will be to rip off few thousandths from the edge of the lid. It should all be down hill once the frame is correctly cut. The frame will not be attached until the cedar lining of the lie has been sanded flat.

I had not planned on getting so deep into the cedar chest build on the forum as I have, but things have sort of just evolved, hope that is alright.

Jerry


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## lenh (Feb 27, 2009)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Len,
> There has been a lot of back and forth about what you are talking about and the final decidion for this chest anyway is to leave the gap created by mounting the hinges to the bottom face of the lid. The frame around the lid will be deep enough to hide the gap. This will provide ventilation in the event that some kid tries to hide in the chest someday. I, like you would not like the appearance of three hinges, right now I'm looking at using four. Do you recall what the weight of the lid is for your chest. I'd like to get by with just the two 60 in lb. hinges.
> 
> Jerry


Hey Jerry, I did not try to weigh the lid but my guess is that it is about 15 lb. My lid did not have a frame around the edges so I'm with you on hiding the gap. That's what I would have done if my lid was framed. Dennis (routergieck) has it just right. With the 2 60 in lb hinges my lid will not stay open if it is only raised a couple of inches. Once it reaches about 30 degrees the hinges hold fine. My main issue was to avoid the lid slamming shut and still be easy to open. Adding a third hinge would be an easy task if I ever feel it necessary. Safety around small children is always a big concern. Probably the only way to make it kid proof is to install a lock. I'm no doubt on the wrong side of the issue but I do not get overly concerned with trying to prevent every possible mishap. In the end it's just not possible. Case in point is choosing a finish. I've never heard of a case where a kid died or got severely sick from chewing on a toy. (once the finish is completely dry)

Great thread Jerry - we're still waiting for the pics :happy:

Len


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

We are presently under a tornado warning the storm is coming in, we are being to told that more tornadoes on headed out way. Hope they miss us, will report back when I can. This Alaskan boy is used to this kind of weather.

Jerry


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