# looking at router specs question



## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Hello 

Starting to do research on routers for a future purchase. Looking at a larger HP, variable speed I think. This is tough because I don't need a plung base and most of the stuff I am looking at is a conbo with plung or a dedicated plung.

The question is in the specs how do you tell if it is adjustable from the top of the table? The manufacturers don't seem to include this in the specs I am reading.

Do some routers have a top adjustment that goes thru the vent holes or will you always see a small allen wrench hole in the base plate?

Thanks for the help.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

*Yes!*



awoodnut said:


> Hello
> 
> Starting to do research on routers for a future purchase. Looking at a larger HP, variable speed I think. This is tough because I don't need a plung base and most of the stuff I am looking at is a conbo with plung or a dedicated plung.
> 
> ...


There is at least one, or two that have the knob come though the table top, at this moment, i can't think of which one, If i run to it, ill edit


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

On some sears models, they are adjustable from the top. A allen wrench is all that's needed. Pending on what plate you mount it to, you'll more than likely need to drill a hole. 

I think Triton, the smaller unit also has the above table adjustment. 

Router lifts will do the same thing. Again, I think depending on which plate you use, you'll need a hole for the wrench. 

Hope this helps.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Having a plunge router allows you to take advantage of procedures you can't do safely and or correctly with a fixed base router.

Once you have the plunge you'll begin finding uses for it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

Most of the big routers that are not the plunge type base don't come with the lift kit built in, it's true you can buy a one of the many lift kits for them,for at about 250.oo bucks..but many of the 2 1/4 hp routers come with a lift kit built in...most take a hole to be drilled in the router mounting plate..so you can use them..

Many of the big plunge routers have a way to lift the router up with a knob from under the table...that works well for most..


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awoodnut said:


> Hello
> 
> Starting to do research on routers for a future purchase. Looking at a larger HP, variable speed I think. This is tough because I don't need a plung base and most of the stuff I am looking at is a conbo with plung or a dedicated plung.
> 
> ...


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

I have a 2.5hp router with the lift built in, just use the crank provided and works great.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys 

Are you saying some of the 2.5 horse fixed base do come with a above table adjustment capability.

I can't afford 250 for a lifter and was hoping to keep the router on a budget....small budget. Still want to get something I won't have to replace in a year when I figure out what I am doing.

Probably going to be doing mostly small projects so I think I will do fine with a 2 or 2.5 HP in a decent brand.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Mike,
I am going to try and save you some money here. You say that you don't need a plunge router right now. Well the operative words are "right now". Trust me! In the near future you will find that you want to do a project that can only be done correctly and safely with a plunge and you are going to say to yourself why didn't I get a combo kit with fixed and plunge bases when I had a chance? You can pick up a good 2 1/4 combo for around the price of a fixed and you will have the best of both worlds. Just a suggestion, but then, I'm sure you know what you need best.


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

1. You want a plunge base. It's useful for cutting holes, template work, mortises, etc.

2. You need a fine adjustment that directly moves the bit up and down to get close to where you want. Porter cable had an upward stop on their 690 plunge base that did that, but the newer 890 plunge base lacks the feature. Most fixed bases have a nice height adjuster.

Although I have the wrench needed for above the table adjustment on my Porter Cable, without the router motor enclosed for dust collection it's easier to just reach below the table.

A lift would be nice because the reduced backlash would mean fewer iterations setting up joinery cuts like lock miter joints, but not $200 worth of nice.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys

I actualy have a Makita 3621 plung router now that I got used and have never used for the construction type projects I was doing. I also have a cheap B & D I got years ago I use for all my basic round over and edging stuff.

I was considering mounting the Makita to the new table till I read a bunch of posts. Thinking after trying to assimilate all the information I have read in the last few days that I would like to get a dedicated fixed base for the tabel.

Looked at lots of posts and kept cking out routers on the internet and at the local stores. Come down to the Craftsman. Best price by far and Bobj3 did a review on one he bought early last year and gave it a 4.8 of 5. Several folks agreed.

By the way Bob how do you like it now you have had it awhile and how is it holding up? I believe you said it did have the above tabel lift ability which sounds like a nice option.

Looks like it will do everything I need and works well as a fixed base for free hand if I need it. Takes the PC acceories and such.

After all the reviews I read I am also going to get the brass set up bars and the oak park finger joint jig. 

Just have to convince the wife why I need this to get my "honey do" list done.


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## ldykeman (Mar 14, 2009)

I have a Porter Cable 893PK. The fixed base is what I use in my table, and it has two holes in the base to allow above table adjustments. One hole to release the locking lever and another hole to make height adjustments.
Larry


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

" Craftsman " I use it all the time.it's the one I pickup because it works so well for some many jobs,,I have my ski setup in it...so to say I like it and I have my eyes open all the time for sales on it...I'm not trying to blow my own horn but I have 4 of them now  plus the red top one...

I will say the oak park finger joint jigs are one of the best jigs I have they work so easy and are so easy to setup and use along with the brass setup bars you can put box joints in quick and are always right on button every time..

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awoodnut said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> I actualy have a Makita 3621 plung router now that I got used and have never used for the construction type projects I was doing. I also have a cheap B & D I got years ago I use for all my basic round over and edging stuff.
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

i agree with BobJ, 

the craftsman router is an excellant router. i have an old b&d, a 7529 pc, the craftsman pro combo, and a new bosch. allare good routers. i really like the new Bosch, but do like the worklights and the ease of adjustment of the craftsman.

also it seems to be confused about the hp. even people who own routers seem confused about the hp . the ridgid has 2 1/4 hp, not 2.5. i guess there are routers that have 2 1/2 hp, but off hand i dont recall any.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*router HP vs amps*

I have seen a variaty of Hps listed on differant brands. All at no load. 

I always thought the big thing with a tool like this that would take a load is amps but you guys all use HP so thats what I went off mostly. I did look at the amps and there were a couple that listed decent HP but a lower then normal amps so I eliminated those from the search fairly quickly.

Do you ever use amps or is it not an issue with routers?

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

It can be a issue with some routers, the big ones can pull over 15 amps.at start up or at full load...but most of the 2HP routers don't ,some use watts and some use peak HP to rate them..because they spin at 20,000 rpm plus they are rated at Peak HP...speed = HP...the norm.. 


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awoodnut said:


> I have seen a variaty of Hps listed on differant brands. All at no load.
> 
> I always thought the big thing with a tool like this that would take a load is amps but you guys all use HP so thats what I went off mostly. I did look at the amps and there were a couple that listed decent HP but a lower then normal amps so I eliminated those from the search fairly quickly.
> 
> ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Mike, you should remember that the router is actually the least expensive part of routing. The bits are where the money really empties from your wallet. The only short coming of your Makita is that it only takes 1/4" shank bits. There are real advantages to using 1/2" shank bits. They are stronger, give less vibration and cost about the same. When you choose your new router it pays to shop around. For the price it is hard to beat the new Craftsman models. I would urge you to go with a 2-1/4 HP combo, you can feel the difference in power. If my understanding is correct the 2-1/4 HP Craftsman runs about $170 normally. I would opt to spend the extra $30 to get the Bosch 1617EVSPK. There is a world of difference in the construction. The 2 HP Craftsman is the $110 kit, and this is as BJ said: a great value for your money.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

I would like to get a bigger router as it just allows more options later on, however budget does put me more in line with the craftsman. Since I have the makita plung I think I will pass on the kit for now and go with the fixed base only.

For $89.00 minus the $10.00 discount they have going and possably another $15.00 if I get one of there credit cards it is the best option. 

I will be starting with some small project so I can always upgrade as needed at a later date. 

The bits are definatly going to be my problem. Picked up one whiteside when I got the tabel and a couple other Western Tool store brand...ouch!!! 

Still trying to decide if I should go with one of the cheap bit sets on ebay you guys talk about. Gives me the ability to play with a particular bit to see if I want to buy a real one. However I am having a real problem with a harbor frieght quality tool spinning at 25,000 RPMs. Don't need to get shrapnel in my own shop.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

That sounds like a good plan,I will say sign up on the web site for the emails..after you do you will get some great deals,,one of the best one you will see will be the Sat.night buyer sale items, they can be 10% to 15% off the going price if you buy it on Sat.night on line, 6 to 6 thing,with that in hand and the card you can get your new router for about 50.oo bucks..or less  and sometimes with free shipping  on line orders only.

I do like the ebay items that I talk about all the time but I also like the MLCS bits because they will always free ship,,that's a big deal most of the time..when you only buy one or two at a time...

We all need to be cheap now days I know I am ,,I can't put down Whiteside bits but by the time you run around town picking them up it can hurt the bottom line,,,why not just let your fingers do the walking around,then all you got to do is go to the front door in a week or less.. 

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/v_10153_...optype=SC&sid=IOx20090504_SRS_BAU&eml=1985673
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awoodnut said:


> I would like to get a bigger router as it just allows more options later on, however budget does put me more in line with the craftsman. Since I have the makita plung I think I will pass on the kit for now and go with the fixed base only.
> 
> For $89.00 minus the $10.00 discount they have going and possably another $15.00 if I get one of there credit cards it is the best option.
> 
> ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

BJ makes an excellent point. While Whiteside is acknowledged as being the best, you will not need this quality level for most home owner projects. Woodcraft offers a different Whiteside bit each month for 25% off. This is a great value... if you will use the bits all the time. Many projects require a bit that will only be used a few times. There is no reason to spend big bucks on a bit for this situation. Woodcraft also offers their 10 most popular bits for $5 each from time to time. I watch for clearance sales since this is where the real deals are found. Last year Rockler quit selling Amana bits. Amana is in the top 4 brands quality wise, and getting them for 50-75% off was a treat. Good hunting!


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## kpiontek (Mar 13, 2009)

*look at your local homedepot*

Hi Mike,

If you're lucky your local Homedepot you migth find the discontinued Freud FT1702VCEK router combo. I just picked one up for $74 new in the box. At this price they go fast. If you want I can take a look whether they still have one at my local one, when I purchased mine there was still one left.

Klaus


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

our lowes has the freud routers discounted also, but it doesnt look like they are selling very well.. i think they still have the same 2 they have had for quite awhile.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Mike: take a look at this:
http://www.carbideprocessors.com/routerbit_comparison.htm

Interesting observations.

Allthunbs


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*Freud at HD*

Hello Klaus

Thanks for the tip but the craftsman is still a better price since I already have a plung. I was at the local HD and they didn't have any on the shelf.

Agean thanks for the offer.

As to the bits I will definatly be looking for the bargins on the net. I was just saying I havn't decided on weather to get one of the cheaper sets or not.

What is the least expensive sets with resonable quality in a carbide tipped blades that you guys have found.

I heard the ones on ebay refered to by color. Yellow and blue, I think. What specific ebay sellers or suppliers at other places have you had good luck with. 

I see the 66 piece sets on ebay for about 74.00. EDM has that and a 24 piece set 1/2 shank for 9.99. Is this a matter of if it sounds to good to be true it is or what.

Also I saw a couple of negative remarks about the bits in the aluminm case.

opinions appeciated.

Mike

allthunbs

Thanks for the link. Helpfull info and another site I hadn't looked at yet....The wish list gets longer and longer. Not shure the wife sees the humor, may have to resort to the suggestion of making her a box and giving it with jewlry.


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*found the router bit threads*

Hi guys

finally got into the threads for router bits and found this question is beat to death.

I am still looking for good feedback about one of those larger sets. 30 to 66 pieces on ebay.

I will repost the question in router bits.

Mike


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ron, I wonder about the integrity of that linked page. This is the first I have heard of that company, but Whiteside has always beaten the competition in comparison testing. None of my Whiteside bits show the flaws depicted. This makes me wonder if they managed to get a rejected bit that had been sold as scrap and used it for their article. Having worked in the high tech scrap industry I can assure you that this is very possible.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Mike said:


> Ron, I wonder about the integrity of that linked page. This is the first I have heard of that company, but Whiteside has always beaten the competition in comparison testing. None of my Whiteside bits show the flaws depicted. This makes me wonder if they managed to get a rejected bit that had been sold as scrap and used it for their article. Having worked in the high tech scrap industry I can assure you that this is very possible.


Hi Mike:

I too considered that but their analysis seems quite transparent and well documented. He raises items of "interest" when purchasing a router bit. His photographic evidence is difficult to question, especially when I look at my bits (Freud, LeeValley, Canadian Tire, BusyBee, Woodline USA) and I see evidence of everything he describes. Do I consider it a criticism of Whiteside, no, not until I have a Whiteside bit in my hands and compare it to the items in his article, but it does give me a basis from which to compare with other bits.

He is also a member of this forum.

Do I accept his evidence? Sure. Do I automatically buy from him? Absolutely not, but when I go to the store to purchase a router bit, I make sure I have a magnifying glass and my cheat sheet from now on. If a router bit has the flaws he describes, the manufacturer, and I don't care who it is, loses brownie points big time. Further, should I ever be tempted to purchase from him, the bit I order better meet every one of the items in his descriptions.

But, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so, when I look at a bit, if it has these flaws, I'll allow it a purchase price in the order of WoodlineUSA, but with each "grade improvement" I'll allow a higher price. I buy cheap bits for cheap work and expensive bits for expensive work.

However, in the absence of other discussion I have to accept his evidence.

In response to the comment "Whiteside has always beaten the competition in comparison testing," a favourable review in a major trade publication in the 1980s was merely a question of "how much." The Oscars are handed out to the organization that spends the most on publicity - does that make "movie X" better than "movie Y?"

Thank you for your scepticism, Mike. At least now the picture is more balanced and the questions asked.

Allthunbs


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

Hello Klaus 

The Frued has come up in consideration agean. So I have a question for you. Does the Frued router have an above table height adjustment? How do you like it now you have used it?

Thanks agean for the tip.

Mike


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## awoodnut (May 2, 2009)

*got a new router*

Hi guys

Finally got the new router for my table after all that looking and himin and hawin. 

Ended up with that Freud form HD that I found out about on this thread. Got to looking at the craftsman and this Frued and the Freud was a whole lot more machine for the money at $74.00.

The above table height adjustment and bit change seemed good and the motor is 1/4 hP more and 2 more amps which should give me more poop under load.

Had to have the local store bring one in from another town in Oregon. Picked it up today. I should have my leveling screws and parts for the fence by first of the week. I ordered a centering kit from Rouuseau and it will be hear probably Monday.

Got to work painting houses the next few days so have to wait to play with it anyway. Shure looks preatty in the box. 

Thanks for all the help, advice and information.
Mike


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