# I need help with planing



## mcdonelldj (Apr 14, 2010)

I bought a planer a few weeks ago to go with my jointer so I can use rough cut wood for my projects. I have had great luck with my joiner and getting a good butt joint for panel a panel glue up.

I had good luck planing a few pieces of wood but now I'm getting little chips in the wood I am working with now. They look like little pock marks. They are not all over the board just in a few spots. 

It's the same type as before, red oak. I got it at the same time too. I'm not sure if it's just this piece of wood or if I am doing something wrong. 

Just to let you guys know, this is my first planer and I am inexperienced at planing rough wood.

Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

mcdonelldj said:


> I bought a planer a few weeks ago to go with my jointer so I can use rough cut wood for my projects. I have had great luck with my joiner and getting a good butt joint for panel a panel glue up.
> 
> I had good luck planing a few pieces of wood but now I'm getting little chips in the wood I am working with now. They look like little pock marks. They are not all over the board just in a few spots.
> 
> ...


It's called tear out and depending on the size of the board, direction of feed, type of wood, depth of cut, knife adjustment and probably some other things, there's many causes.

It could be the wood but another thing that comes to mind is that you're knives may have become loose and may be moving ever so slightly. Since this is a new planer, you should have gone through the setup procedure that is usually detailed in the manual. Make sure the knives are set properly and have not become loose before you use it again. A thrown knife can do some serious damage to both people and things.

Other than that, there's too many unknowns. Post pictures of the work piece and your planer.

In the mean time (once you check the knives and setup), you could try some other species of wood. Make sure they're at least 2 feet long and don't take more than 1/32-1/16 of an inch off with each pass. See if you still get tearout.


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## mcdonelldj (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks for the response. I didn't know that was also considered tear out.

I did not adjust the blades when I bought the planer, I just took it of the box, did the set up and started using it. The planer is a Porter Cable PC350TP. I am looking at the manual now it has instructions on replacing the knives but other than tightening 6 screws on the blades, there is no other set up or alignment for the blades.

I checked the blades and they are all tight. 

I can't send you pictures of the piece since I went ahead and sanded it so I could use it. 

As far as the depth of cut goes I wasn't even cutting 1/32, I was only giving the handle a quarter turn trying to shave the pock marks out. Could a too shallow cut be an issue?

I ran some other unidentified hard wood through and took a 1/16 at time from 3/4 to 1/2 and it had no tear out at all. 

I did the same for a scrap of SPF and it had some surface marks but not of the marks were below the surface. 

Other than a too shallow cut, I am starting to think it was just the wood. Thoughts?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Dave,

I also believe that Planning agaist the grain may cause chip out.

James


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Always feed into the direction of the grain, never against it. Actually shallow cuts are better, easier on the equipment and the knives/blades will last longer.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Dave..

there will be times when there won't be much of anything you can do to avoid chipout. Some pieces of wood are just prone to it. Highly figured, cross grained, curly and just plain too dry can all contribute to chipout. Like the guys all mentioned above there is several things you can do to minimize the potential for problems. Feeding with the grain and shallow passes like Ken said are the two biggies! A properly set up machine and sharp blades are vital, both of which you seem to have addressed. 
Look at it this way, a planer "scoops" out the wood with each pass of the blade where as a hand planer slices through the wood. There will be times when no amount of tweaking the equipment will stop all of the chipout. It then becomes time to get out the smoothing plane. 
Another consideration might very well be the use of ski's in conjunction with your router. This could be a particularly attractive alternative when dealing with smaller pieces of wood.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Can you tell if the "chip out/pockmark" is smooth or rough If it's a little rough its likely chip out. Inconsistent grain density and direction can produce divots. Chip out usually occurs at the edges and ends of the stock, rarer within the face.

Do you have lots of cutting/shavings floating on the board surface "AS" it exits the out feed side? If the chip out/pockmark is smooth and occurs within the face, your pock marks may be dents left over from the knives hitting too many residual cuttings/shavings at the planing point. 

Shavings may be stuck to the knife and or so many are blowing around in the cutting plane that instead of cutting the stock it presses shavings into it. 

In my case this is due to inadequate chip removal. I've had this happen mostly with Pine and only on my portable planer when I don't have DC connected. If you are using DC or it may be clogged or the planers dust chute may be blocked. 

Do take shallower cuts 1/16 to 1/32 and use DC.


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## mcdonelldj (Apr 14, 2010)

Okay, I got some questions answered and now I have new ones.

I think I understand the idea of planing with the grain but sometimes I can't tell which way to plane because the grain looks like it goes both ways. Is there a visual tutorial or a good explanation that can tweek my untrained eye to know which way the grain is going?

The next issue is dust collection. I have a Porter Cable PC305TP and it did not come with any dust collection system. It has a hood but as Ronald pointed out it does have chips on it as it exits the planer. Is there a generic adapter to use or is there a slick way to make one from store bought parts?

Thanks for all the help so far.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Dave..

what you think your seeing, you might actually be seeing!! Grain can go in both directions. Grain can go all over the place at time. Thus making planning your board all the more aggravating. IMHO a visual explanation of what to look for is the best way to learn. Do a google search on "wood grain direction". this "pdf" file was one of the better, simple explanations I found. 

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/content/binary/WM_Grain_Direction.pdf

Fine woodworking has an excellent article on wood grain direction etc. but you have to be a member. Actually a membership well worth having. 
What usually works well for me is taking soft cotton shop rag and dragging it down the board and back. With the grain, the rag goes along relatively smoothly. against the grain you can feel it 'catching"...

HTH..

bill


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Dave... The best books I have on reading grain are "The Hand Plane Book" by Garrett Hack and "Handplane Essentials" by Chris Schwarz. From these books I've come to realize that while some boards do have straight "one-way" grain, the more nicely figured woods often have the grain going different directions in different parts of the same face. On some wood the best you can do is to choose the direction with the least tear out and clean it up from there, using some combination of hand planes, scrapers and sanders.

This doesn't mean I've given up on my planer. It serves me a very valuable function in quickly thicknessing my wood; I just allow a tad of thickness for planing, scraping and sanding. 

If anyone here has found the "magic bullet" in planing wild-grained wood so its glass smooth, I'd sure like to know about it!


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> "With the grain, the rag goes along relatively smoothly. against the grain you can feel it 'catching"..."


Great suggestion, Bill.. I've used my fingers for this but your rag idea is even better!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Schwartz's book is EXCELLENT!!!! As is the accompanying video...

Jim,, pick up Ron Hocks "The Perfect Edge"....

bill


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

mcdonelldj,

One of the reasons 1/4 sawn wood is so popular is the grain and that it allows one to hand or power plane in either direction with little concern. 

However, even with plain sawn pine I often reverse planing direction and or change the angle of approach. When DC, proper depth of cut and sharp knives are involved the incident is extremely rare. There are many factors involved with chipping, (stock hardness, grain, moisture content, board cup,crown&roll) all should be considered when choosing material for the particular project.

Here's a link to give a general look at wood grain sawing methods and the product they supply. As mentioned by other members there're many tricks one can learn and use to read the grain and wood for the best possible results. None are absolute but they can minimize and or eliminate damage.

grain patterns


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I planed down some of the rough sawn I bought yesterday. I did plane with the grain, however, I started getting some tear out where the grain came to a point. I sent the board through with the opposite end, which I was mostly able to plain out the tear out, and there was definitely no additional tear out. It looks like the best bet is to be aware of the grain pattern while planing.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Mike you may want to try setting up your knives. They are supposed to be factory set, but they can be a little off sometimes. If they are out they will cause tear out. Check out this video to give you an idea on making your own jigs and how to set up the knives.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Great video. I did flip the knives before planing yesterday as there was a nick in the factory installed side. The nice thing with the planer I have is that there are on the cutter head which allows for accurate alignment. I really think the tear out I got had more to do with the grain then with the knive placement. It happened the one time only and that was after many other passes. I will keep an eye on it as I will be planing down more soon. If it happens again, I will take a closer look at the alignment.

I will however look in using this technique when it comes time to replace the knives on my jointer!


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

CanuckGal said:


> Mike you may want to try setting up your knives. They are supposed to be factory set, but they can be a little off sometimes. If they are out they will cause tear out. Check out this video to give you an idea on making your own jigs and how to set up the knives.



Ummm, actually, it's always wise to check all settings for all equipment BEFORE using them. Bad things can happen real quick.

Now Jim, you have figured out why you get so many splinters in your fingers now... right?!:lol::lol:


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## koolhandvuk (Jun 3, 2010)

Could be a number of factors....Cutters/blades not sharp enough. The type of wood with grain pattern and how much wood are you trying to take off at a time. If the cutters are sharp, I would slowly take off small increments of wood on each pass until to get to your thickness.


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## smg01 (Jul 2, 2010)

Have a Delta 400LS planer with chip/dust collection and the same problem with red oak which I believe has a tendency to do this particularly when overdry. Minimized by taking shallow cuts ~1/32 and frequently brushing off the infeed and outfeed rollers to remove adhering chips. I assume your blades are sharp, aligned and you are planing in the correct direction.

Steve


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Dull blades can be the worse offender, and coupled with grain direction, disasters can happen to your wood.

You might consider installing a Byrd Shelix head. They use 4 sided carbide cutters that do a great job. Tearout is absolutely minimal with any figured wood.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I did quite a bit of planing this weekend without any trouble. I did find that a piece I had previous trouble planing also had difficulties at the table saw and other tools. I think the piece was extra dense.


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## mcdonelldj (Apr 14, 2010)

smg01 said:


> Have a Delta 400LS planer with chip/dust collection and the same problem with red oak which I believe has a tendency to do this particularly when overdry. Minimized by taking shallow cuts ~1/32 and frequently brushing off the infeed and outfeed rollers to remove adhering chips. I assume your blades are sharp, aligned and you are planing in the correct direction.
> 
> Steve


I planed a couple other pieces of wood and didn't have the same issue. One piece was mahogany and the other was walnut. Then I tried some other red oak and it worked fine. I think it was just the wood. Especially since there are no adjustments or alignments except the infeed table.


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## Dereklee (Jul 15, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> I also believe that Planning agaist the grain may cause chip out.
> 
> James


yep, i have such experiences. hope you can avoid it.


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