# large curved profile bit



## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

Having a very tough time finding a bit to make the curve as shown in the picture below. Keep in mind that the full curve in the example picture is about 6". So im looking for a bit with a 3" long shallow curved cutting surface. Can anyone locate such a bit for me? Or possibly there is a better way of doing this without 18 years of sanding? Thanks!


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the forum.Bob


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bobditts said:


> Having a very tough time finding a bit to make the curve as shown in the picture below. Keep in mind that the full curve in the example picture is about 6". So im looking for a bit with a 3" long shallow curved cutting surface. Can anyone locate such a bit for me? Or possibly there is a better way of doing this without 18 years of sanding? Thanks!


that's done w/ a reverse profile drawer cutter on shaper....
maybe a finger or thumbnail bit might work for you...
ready made molding comes in that profile...


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

thanks for all the replies. So there isnt a way to get the same result with a router? I dont have access to a shaper.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bobditts said:


> thanks for all the replies. So there isnt a way to get the same result with a router? I dont have access to a shaper.


rough hand plane or spokeshave it and sand to finish profile..


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Bob,,,,just checking. Are you talking about the curve on the box end or the profile on the lid?


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Bob,,,,just checking. Are you talking about the curve on the box end or the profile on the lid?


sorry for the confusion. The curve on the box. I have the MLCS furniture maker bit (item #8592) but it is not nearly large enough and leaves a large flat spot in the profile of the box.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

See how big of a thumbnail cutter magnate.net has. They have some big bits there.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Looks like a job for a band saw to me.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I agree with Ralph this is a job for the band saw or a table saw and rasp and sandpaper.


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

You could build a curved router jig similar to a jig to plane a board flat only with the curve for which you are looking. That way you would be starting with the same curve for all sides. After that sanding would be required to get the proper finish.

Buck


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

This can be done with a router.
You would build a jig that moves the wood in an arc across the end of a straight bit.

When I made my stave drum shell, I built a jig that rotated the entire shell. The jig for this profile would be similar but only needs to move wood in a 6" arc.

Like the swinging pendulum movement that a grandfather clock has.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A while back I did a few boxes with curved sides, (not as acute as those you're looking at, but the same process). Hand planed and block sanded to final form. If reasonably proficient with a hand plane, not as bad a task as you may think...sanding down to proper final form took a little time. 

http://www.routerforums.com/twoskies57-gallery/35209-latest-batch-boxes.html

The type of wood you choose to go with will dramatically impact the whole process.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Make a jig that mounts the box on a pendulum arm at each end. The length of each arm will determine the radius. Then swing the box back and forth over a straight bit on a router table. You'll still need to do some scraping, planing, and/or sanding but not as much.


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## swarfmaker (Aug 27, 2012)

Bob, if you could lay your hannds on a lathe, you could glue up the wood in a pipe shape, turn it to desired curvature, and then cut out the sides again.


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## GregLittleWoodworks (Dec 9, 2014)

I made this box using my table saw to cut the box sides at an angle and then used a hand plane and sanding. Very easy...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm with Stick on this. A pleasant quiet couple of hours with hand tools; some jazz CDs playing (cell phone turned off)... 
Veritas® Flat, Round and Concave Spokeshaves - Lee Valley Tools


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I'm with Stick on this. A pleasant quiet couple of hours with hand tools; some jazz CDs playing (cell phone turned off)...
> Veritas® Flat, Round and Concave Spokeshaves - Lee Valley Tools


if you hog w/ the table saw you should be able to more than halve the time...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Bob I can see that you want to make more than one of these so a router can work, your profile is large so I would get a cutter made for use in a router table, a half cutter, a cutter that does this in one pass would be every large and thin in the middle with a lot of top weight, to hold it together then the middle would have to be very strong and I don't see how that could be made in an affordable way but a half cutter would work, big at the bottom and thin at the top so you would do the cut in a few passes as there is far too much wood to take off in one pass, I would set up to take it off in several passes with the last one the thinnest, the only reason to get a cutter made is that you want to make a hundred of them, making a few, then I would first make the box and then plane it off with the box in a vise, use a profile guide to get them the same. N


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. Didnt realize all the activity this thread got. The subscription email feature couldnt keep up I guess. To update everyone, I have a request in to a couple companies to see about getting a custom router bit made. Hoping they come back with some good news. 

I do like the idea of creating a jig to use if the custom bit route doesnt work. My biggest obstacle with this whole project is my lack of certain tools (lathe, band saw) and my lack of ability with a hand plane. I am attempting to create several of these projects with uniformity which is why I am seeking the router bit direction. Ill keep everyone posted and again, thanks for all the replies with great information.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bobditts said:


> To update everyone, I have a request in to a couple companies to see about getting a custom router bit made. Hoping they come back with some good news.


TBH Bob, a 3in router cutter is going to be weak, it will undoubtedly flex when making heavy cuts and probably be a bit of a danger to life and limb - a 1-1/2in cutter run from both sides would make a lot more sense to my mind. (I use 4in long deep pocket mortise bits on a plunge regularly and they can flex if you aren't careful). Even with a router cutter it is still going to be a much safer operation to hog away the waste with _something_, _*anything*_ (from a spokeshave to a Surform to a wood file to a power planer....) before you start to work with the router cutter. It's always the heavy cuts where there's the greatest danger of climb cuts and kickback

Regards

Phil


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

Hi Phil. The bit I am currently using has a 1-1/4" cutting surface. Since the lumber (mahogany) is 6" wide, there is a 3-1/2" flat spot in the middle of the piece so I dont get that full curved surface look. I will wait a few days to see what the custom bit companies respond with. If it ends up to be a safety issue, Ill probably just make a jig. I had planned on making several light passes if a 3" bit is doable. Im all about safety with a router (they scare me more than any other tool I own. Definitely use any piece of safety gear when I can. Fingerboards, fence shield, face shield, eye protection, hearing protection, small parts shield, etc...


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Bob 
I can't tell exactly how much is coming off but if you have access to a planer you may be able to get cutter knives ground to that profile. This would only pay if you want to make a bunch but would certainly make the whole process go a lot faster.
Dennis


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

64 ford said:


> Bob
> I can't tell exactly how much is coming off but if you have access to a planer you may be able to get cutter knives ground to that profile. This would only pay if you want to make a bunch but would certainly make the whole process go a lot faster.
> Dennis


good idea...

Model 712 - 12-in Molder/Planer


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

Stick486,

if I had $2400 I would buy this in a heartbeat. Ive been researching all of the info everyone has been suggesting include shaper knives. I have been unable to locate a knife the would do what I am seeking to do. So far, the jig would be the most practical way for my end result with my budget and skillset. I am still waiting to hear back from the custom router bit companies and will post up what they say. Keep the replies coming. I appreciate all of the responses. This forum is awesome!


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

64 ford said:


> Bob
> I can't tell exactly how much is coming off but if you have access to a planer you may be able to get cutter knives ground to that profile. This would only pay if you want to make a bunch but would certainly make the whole process go a lot faster.
> Dennis


the stock thickness is 5/8". After the curved profile is applied, the thinnest part of the stock would be approximately 1/4". in the center of the curve, the stock thickness would remain 5/8"


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

here is the response I got from carbideprocessors.com

Good Day – Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
$345.00 each
Lead time 2-3 weeks
Please let me know if you have any further questions I am happy to help. 

Router Bit Specifications
Router Type:
Table Router
Shank Diameter:
1/2
Cutting Diameter:
1 1/4"
Cutting Length:
3"
Hand Rotation:
Right Hand
Number of Flutes:
2
Will Bit be used for End Plunging?:
No
Is Ball Bearing required?:
Yes
Additional Information:
MLCS #8592 is exactly what I need, just much larger.
Router Bit Application
Power Feeding:
No
Material Thickness:
1"
Type of material being routed:
hard woods
Will workpiece cope to another piece?:
No
Please include a sketch or drawing if available:
Quantity:
1


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

[/QUOTE]

Hi Bob

$345 for a router cutter is fairly heavy. Maybe it's time to think laterally. There are a number of copy router jigs out there, such as this one which are designed to copy 3D objects. That one's $1000, but a simpler version can be built a lot cheaper. With the help of bandsaw or a jigsaw it should be possible to produce a full size template of the cross section of the sides. The cheap router copier jig could be made up with a long bar stylus in place of the point stylus to allow a long length to be copied from a relatively narrow template. Using a relatively low cost ball nose cutter the shaped sides could be routed out to the point where relatively little sanding would deliver the desired result. There are obviously a few issues to iron out to parallelism of the guide bar, but I also have an alternative which I'll post later after I've done a few sketches

Regards

Phil


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

Hi Phil, I completely agree. Definitely not willing to fork out $345 for a single bit. $150 would be my max. The jig is a realistic short term solution that I will most likely pursue.


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## otto g (Aug 2, 2014)

What you could look at is one of these: 72025250 CRAFTSMAN CRAFTSMAN ROUTER CRAFTER Manual | SearsPartsDirect.

Sears made them years ago and you can find them on used tool sites for +/- 50$. I have one that I bought new a long time ago (it scares me to think how long) and have used it to great advantage for some special pieces that would have been awkward on the lathe. I made a jewelry box that was about 5" high from a 6" cylinder. I had to cut off the corners on the bandsaw to get it to fit and then rounded and fluted it (this was before I obtained my lathe). I belive that there is a company that makes a similar devise still and then there is the machines from Phantom Tools, but if 2400$ is somewhat steep...

Otto


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## otto g (Aug 2, 2014)

I just looked and there is a Router Crafter for sale on this site in the Marketplace.

Otto


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

thanks Otto. That device looks pretty awesome. I emailed the guy for more details. Thanks for the heads up!


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

so here is my idea for the jig since im not going the bit route. I couldnt figure out how to draw the hole in the curved hardboard but there should be one for the router. The router will sit on top of the top piece and the lumber will be underneath. the top piece will slide along the bottom guides and create a 3d curved profile.


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

here are some more renderings. I have the jig clamped and gluing right now. Hopefully get to test it out tomorrow.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

kp91 said:


> See how big of a thumbnail cutter magnate.net has. They have some big bits there.


I just saw this thread, and followed up on Doug's suggestion. I found this on the Magnate web site:

7586: Cutting Diameter:3"; Shank Length:2"; Shank Diameter:1/2"; Radius:3-3/16"; Profile Height:3/8"; 
Our Price: $71.74


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

mftha said:


> I just saw this thread, and followed up on Doug's suggestion. I found this on the Magnate web site:
> 
> 7586: Cutting Diameter:3"; Shank Length:2"; Shank Diameter:1/2"; Radius:3-3/16"; Profile Height:3/8";
> Our Price: $71.74


thanks for the post. Just want to make sure Im reading this right because it doesnt seem to add up...

the cutting diameter says 3" which to me that says each curved cutting side of the bit is 1.5". Does that seem right? But then it says the radius is 3-3/16". This has me confused.


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

bobditts said:


> thanks for the post. Just want to make sure Im reading this right because it doesnt seem to add up...
> 
> the cutting diameter says 3" which to me that says each curved cutting side of the bit is 1.5". Does that seem right? But then it says the radius is 3-3/16". This has me confused.


Hi Bob. The particular bit you displayed, Magnate #7586, is designed for the Legacy Ornamental Milling Machine. It is a specialized bit intended to be used in tandem with bits #7546. Combining these two bits in the Legacy provides a rope-like design resulting in a 3-3/16" radius while using the two bits #7586 & 7546 each having a 3" diameter.

One pic is worth a thousand words. Check it out at the Magnate site barley twist bits here:

https://www.magnate.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PG235

I have never used the Craftsman Router Crafter or the Legacy Ornamental Mill. This is just what I see from looking up your info on the Magnate website.

Magnate is happy to answer questions at at 800-827-2316 or 909-468-5747 or send e-mail to [email protected].

Cheers!!!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bobditts said:


> so here is my idea for the jig since im not going the bit route. I couldnt figure out how to draw the hole in the curved hardboard but there should be one for the router. The router will sit on top of the top piece and the lumber will be underneath. the top piece will slide along the bottom guides and create a 3d curved profile.


take a short cut...
use that jig you built as a form for layers of veneer and glue up what you need...
glue up the layers as though you were making a sheet of ply wood...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

bobditts said:


> thanks for the post. Just want to make sure Im reading this right because it doesnt seem to add up...
> 
> the cutting diameter says 3" which to me that says each curved cutting side of the bit is 1.5". Does that seem right? But then it says the radius is 3-3/16". This has me confused.


Ray found exactly what I had found. So kudos to him

In my case, I have suffered a classic brain failure in my post. I admit I very much wanted to find a router bit that would allow you to generate the profile you wanted in exactly the way you wanted to do it, and the way I would want to do it. A router bit in the style I found would have to be 6 inches in diameter, and I have never seen one with a diameter greater than 3-5/8 in (about 92 mm). Such a bit would probably have to be run at a speed lower than any router could run. 

I am going to try to post an illustration, based on the router bit I found that shows the diameter and radius as described. The diameter refers to the bit itself. The radius is the curve of the cutting edge, the carbide. With the radius of 3-3/16" the bit could theoretically cut a circle of 6-3/8" diameter. You want a curved edge 6"high. With this bit your curved edge would be almost a semicircle. Hence your jig is probably the best bet. What are needed now are recommendations for router bits for your jig. I would suggest a small diameter bowl cutting bit.

Stick's suggestion of gluing veneer has great merit and may well be the most efficient and practical solution.

I apologize for getting you hopes up but I hope our exchange has been informative.

Note to moderator Cherryville Chuck: with respect to another thread, If I had access to it, I would have by now clicked my big red "unlike" button for my previous post in this thread.


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

Excellent illustration Tom. That illustrates the concept better than the Magnate site. Thank you.


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## MrSlabaugh (Oct 17, 2012)

*Custom Made Router Bit Solution*

Hi Bob,

If you are making many boxes, you can have a custom made router bit set made for about $175 per bit. 

Hope that helps,

Mark

[email protected]


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

bobditts said:


> here is the response I got from carbideprocessors.com
> 
> Good Day – Thank you for taking the time to contact us.
> $345.00 each
> ...


These are the facts regarding commercial production, you really have to be making a lot of something to justify the setting up costs, you have to test your market and then decide if the product will sell and how much money you will put into making it, for what it's worth I like your box design, sadly many persons will not pay what an item is worth and they just want the cheap thing, me, I am not disheartened by that, I am convinced that there are still many persons who will pay more for an item that is made very well, you have to look for these customers and I think that if you do any item 'nicely' then they will sell, your boxes will sell. Have a look at this thread, "New release - SUV" I am sure that if these SUV's were made in large numbers they would sell, so the cost in setting up to make them should pay off. N


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## bobditts (Jan 5, 2015)

for the urn business, I was told that if I wanted to pursue that route, I should set up a booth at a funeral convention and link up with local funeral homes. I don't think that is an option for me at the moment but once I retire from the service, I might do something like that. If I were operating a full blown business and that was my full time job, I wouldnt hesitate getting custom tooling for my projects made to order. The big problem Ive run in to with my custom bit design is safety. A 3" long cutting surface will be unstable at higher speeds. Hopefully my jig will work as designed. I have a backup plan that would be simpler than my original plan. Hoping I dont need to go that route though since I already have a lot of time invested in to plan A. Pictures are coming when I have results to show.


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