# New CNC router



## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

So I got a new CNC router as a christmas present. Well I havent got it yet but was told it's on the way. Without having it in hand I dont know what to expect other than reviews are good.

I know it comes with basic grbl control software but no drafting software. YouTube recommends easel from inventibles. Any other suggestions?

The model is the 3018 pro upgrade. Its undoubtedly made in China and appears to be a smartview genitmatsu (sp?) Knockoff. But hey for $200, can't be horrible to learn on.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Suggestions in upgrades or consumables (like bits) would be very welcomed.

Happy New Years guys and cheers!

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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Congrats. It's a fairly small machine - cutting area is about 12 x 7. What are you hoping to do with it? It probably can cut wood and plastic. I would be surprised if it handles metal at all.

Even though the literature says it doesn't need a computer, you probably should plan on hooking it up to one. The little remote controller is really limited.

Probably the first things you should get is software - CAD and CAM packages. Which ones depend on what you want to do with the machine.


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

PhilBa said:


> Congrats. It's a fairly small machine - cutting area is about 12 x 7. What are you hoping to do with it? It probably can cut wood and plastic. I would be surprised if it handles metal at all.
> 
> Even though the literature says it doesn't need a computer, you probably should plan on hooking it up to one. The little remote controller is really limited.
> 
> Probably the first things you should get is software - CAD and CAM packages. Which ones depend on what you want to do with the machine.


Thanks! For starters I'll probably mess around making signs and stuff. Theres a fairly big market up here as all the units like to give plaques as going away gifts for soldiers and the only place in town that you can get them custom made charges 180 for a picture and some words. The wife says if I can make 200 bucks off the machine and figure out what features I like and dont like she will upgrade it for me 

I already bought a small laptop to run solely CAD/CAM software. Nothing fancy but it will be dedicated to this. But speaking if software, I want to start out with free open source software. This way I can play and get the feel for the features I want and need before I commit to purchase. Any suggestions? Mainly do signs and and small gifts like picture frames and the such. One thing I do plan on tackling is making a plaque for my shoulder mount from this falls deer hunt so I will need to learn how to tile in order to make it big enough. Do you know if easel by inventibles will handle that? 

Sorry for the rant. I'm just super excited!!!

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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

check out F-Engrave. It's free and is good for signs and simple v carving. I use it quite a bit for doing both images and text. Photos of a couple of box lids done with F-Engrave are attached. Basically those were black and white line drawing images created with a drawing app (Affinity Design, $50) but Inkscape would work fine and it's free. Even Microsoft Paint could be used. You can also get F-Engrave to directly use TrueType fonts of which there are thousands available for free. Those box lids were made with a 90 degree V Bit - 1/4" shank. Does your machine take 1/4" bits? I couldn't see anything on the amazon page that said if it did.

I should warn you, that machine is not likely to be able to make deep cuts without flexing so you will have to take multiple shallow cuts. Not the end of the world, it will just take longer.

By the way, you will probably want to dump the PC software that comes with it. The router runs GRBL and there are lots of free "control" programs that work with it. GRBL Panel, bCNC, UGS and several others work pretty well.

If you want to really crank out plaques, you will probably want to look at investing $2K or more. If you can get $100 for a plaque and crank out 10 a day, it would pay for itself pretty fast. The more rigid the machine, the faster it can run. But there is also the question of how long will the machine last. Your little chinese machine probably isn't that reliable. Frankly, I would want to have something like an Avid Pro4824 ($6-9K depending on how much you do yourself) for that kind of business. And, maybe two of them for more reliability.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, Sarah! We do like photos so show us your shop, tools, projects, new CNC, etc. whenever you're ready.

David


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Welcome


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

PhilBa said:


> check out F-Engrave. It's free and is good for signs and simple v carving. I use it quite a bit for doing both images and text. Photos of a couple of box lids done with F-Engrave are attached. Basically those were black and white line drawing images created with a drawing app (Affinity Design, $50) but Inkscape would work fine and it's free. Even Microsoft Paint could be used. You can also get F-Engrave to directly use TrueType fonts of which there are thousands available for free. Those box lids were made with a 90 degree V Bit - 1/4" shank. Does your machine take 1/4" bits? I couldn't see anything on the amazon page that said if it did.
> 
> I should warn you, that machine is not likely to be able to make deep cuts without flexing so you will have to take multiple shallow cuts. Not the end of the world, it will just take longer.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the advice! I dont have super high hopes of this machine having any sort of longevity. If I can do some things to make it pay for itself I will be happy...If I can do some things that will help me save for a bigger better unit...perfect. In the end it's more if a learning experience than anything. I used to run a shop sabre at my old job but that was years ago and never really got into the programming side of it oher than loading a program and running it. 

The machine takes 1/8" bits so I'm already planning on multiple passes and slow feed rates. Once I get her up and running and play with her a bit I will probably want to do something that the machine cant and the motivation to upgrade will increase. That's also where you guys will come in. I'll be on here another asking things like "I want to do A B and C" and you guys can be like "well to do that you need a machine or software that has this..."



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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Welcome to the Router Forums Sarah.

Right now Easel should get you started but I do suggest you look into Vectric software. You can start with Cut 2D and upgrade to other programs for just the difference in cots between the two softwares. When you get to Vcarve Desktop you will be able to cut 3D projects and it comes with several 3D models to get you started.

Good luck with the new CNC.


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

Welcome to the forum, Sarah. What is the make and model of the cnc you bought? I'd like to look it up.


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

chessnut2 said:


> Welcome to the forum, Sarah. What is the make and model of the cnc you bought? I'd like to look it up.


3018 Pro Upgrade. 

It's a chinese knockoff of sainsmart. 

It wont let me post a link to it. It's a tiny thing but it's a start

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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Here's the amazon page for it. FWIW Sainsmart is a Chinese company that is trying to brand all the standard chinese stuff.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Sarah let us guys with not much money how well it works will need pictures. That would help making simple signs. When is it coming?


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

roofner said:


> Sarah let us guys with not much money how well it works will need pictures. That would help making simple signs. When is it coming?


Probably the biggest limitation for making signs is it doesn't take 1/4" shank bits. A 60 or 90 degree V bit is standard for simple signs. a 1/8" shank V bit will take a lot more carving to get a similar effect. A ball nose 1/8" bit might be a better choice if you can't use 1/4" shank bits.


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

PhilBa said:


> Probably the biggest limitation for making signs is it doesn't take 1/4" shank bits. A 60 or 90 degree V bit is standard for simple signs. a 1/8" shank V bit will take a lot more carving to get a similar effect. A ball nose 1/8" bit might be a better choice if you can't use 1/4" shank bits.


I did a little perusing of Amazon for 1/8" end mills and bits and see theres a huge array. I will definitely be playing a bit. Pun intended.

I get the unit Thursday. Barring any unforseen issues I should have it up and running by the weekend. Hopefully have a few test runs done by then too! 

Pics to follow

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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

Just arrived today. Havent put it together yet but I was looking through the manual and it says the spindle is 775ER. I'm assuming the ER refers to the collet type. I tried googling specs but have seen everything from 150W to 500W. 

Anyone have any idea?

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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

The spindle is probably a 775 and the collet ER11. And I have also seen specs in the range you indicated.

David


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

I dont know if I should start a new thread for this but we will start here.

So I got the new unit built and set up. It seems to be pretty sturdy and was super easy to assemble. I then went to install the candle.exe software that came with it and I dont think my computer likes to read things from the disc. So my question is, for the control software, do I have to use the program that came with it or can I download any generic grbl control program? If so, which is a good free one? If not, is candle a proprietary program or is it open sourced?

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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Here is a link to download Candle https://devhub.io/repos/Denvi-Candle

There are several other GRBL softwares available for download if that doesen't work. Just google "GRBL"


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

There are couple of control programs for GRBL machines out there. UGS, GRBL Panel, bCNC sping to mind. I use GRBL Panel and like it a lot but it's not being supported by the author anymore. Lots of people swear by bCNC and it can be run on a RasPi. UGS is kind of the old man of the bunch and is rock solid. I think you can find Candle for download somewhere but I've heard a lot of complaints about it. Not sure if it's FOSS.

[edit] mike beat me to it. he's got a faster feed rate! [/edit]


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

Thanks y'all. I got it figured out. I downloaded F Engrave as my G Code software. Havent gotten a chance to play with it yet but that's on the agenda for this weekend!

I do have one quick question though. When I installed the spindle it didnt have a hard positioning point. I set it so that with a bit installed (used the largest end mill that came with it installed approximately half the entire length in the collet) the end was just barely above the table when z-axis was in f uh ll down position. Now that I'm thinking of it this leaves no room for scab board. Any suggestions? Manual had no reference.









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## jvanbrecht (Dec 22, 2008)

Looks like the controller is a customized arduino type board running an 8825 driver, so any GRBL software will work. Depending on your abilities, you may want to pickup a cheap Raspberry PI and run CNCjs or similar (there are a ton of Linux CNC options), you don't really want to drive the CNC from your computer, in the event something locks up (it's Windows after all....) or resource constraints on larger projects (not physical size, but lines of code size). That is the setup I use, Raspberry PI running FreeBSD and CNCjs (linux would be a much easier option for someone new to the Unix world, Ubuntu specifically).

As for Software, I use Fusion 360 (and there are literally 10000s of tutorials on youtube on how to design and use the software), it is free for hobbyists and start ups (so yes, you can use it for commercial purposes as long as your revenue is less than $500k a year.. I don't think that will be a problem, keep in mind, they did change the license recently, and I have not read the new license). I use it, because it integrates well with Eagle (another of Autodesks products used for designing printed circuit boards). Another totally free, completely open license, do with it as you will, make as much money as you want option, is Blender, its a great 3D modelling tool, but it has a steep learning curve, and a really busy interface. I used to recommend Google Sketchup, but they pulled the stand alone version in favor a a cloud based version, and I don't like that, as it removed the ability to use plugins that generated cut lists, now only available in the Pro paid version...

Other options, are using Openbuilds web based application (full disclosure, I have an Openbuilds lead 1010, but I have no affiliation with them other than being a member of the forums and a user).


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

You should get a 1/2" mdf board the same size as your bed for a waste board. You will want the bit to cut into the waste board. It's a replaceable item. You should check your bed for flat and level but chances are it's not. So, you will want to surface the waste board - skim a thin layer off so that it is flat and level with respect to your spindle. If you don't, your carving will be to an uneven depth. Surprisingly small differences will show up. I'm not sure what bits are available for that with a 1/8" shank. I use a "fly cutter".

On the point about not wanting to use a PC to feed your GRBL machine - you shouldn't be using it for other things while running a job but I've not had any problems stemming from windows. It's pretty stable and the GRBL drivers aren't very demanding - not a single job of mine was messed up because of the winPC. I've used the openbuilds control app and didn't like it at all. 

I use F360, too, but it has a huge learning curve. F-Engrave just takes a few hours to get going.


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## jvanbrecht (Dec 22, 2008)

I only use the Openbuilds for quick engraving jobs.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

jvanbrecht said:


> As for Software, I use Fusion 360 (and there are literally 10000s of tutorials on youtube on how to design and use the software), it is free for hobbyists and start ups (so yes, you can use it for commercial purposes _as long as your revenue is less than $500k a year_.. I don't think that will be a problem, keep in mind, _they did change the license recently_, and I have not read the new license).


Until October the number was *$100k *or less but it is now *$1,000 *or less for the free version. Additionally, F360 is now a limited version in the free under $1k package. So if you make more than $1,000 annually in your hobby/business then you'll have to pony up for the subscription. 

I use it almost exclusively and can't really do without the software so in October we jumped on the paid version. It is very powerful software and to me wasn't that difficult to learn, but it 'fits' the way I think and the CAM portion is very strong. However, you can download it and give it a shot for free. Take a look at the Lars Christensen videos to get up to speed on how to use the software.

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm still partial to Vectric. Most of the people here use it, so there's a bonus.


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## jvanbrecht (Dec 22, 2008)

difalkner said:


> Until October the number was *$100k *or less but it is now *$1,000 *or less for the free version. Additionally, F360 is now a limited version in the free under $1k package. So if you make more than $1,000 annually in your hobby/business then you'll have to pony up for the subscription.
> 
> I use it almost exclusively and can't really do without the software so in October we jumped on the paid version. It is very powerful software and to me wasn't that difficult to learn, but it 'fits' the way I think and the CAM portion is very strong. However, you can download it and give it a shot for free. Take a look at the Lars Christensen videos to get up to speed on how to use the software.
> 
> David


I was wrong about the max value, sorry about that. I posted in the other thread (although it appears I need a moderator to approve the post for now). I'm still confused about the max value now though, as I just checked the page where you sign up and register for the Startup version, and it is still listing the 100k limit, but I don't have access to the license at the moment, I'm guessing it has been updated there.

ps, I have no affiliation with Autodesk other than as a user. 

For the other person, I have not used vectric yet because last time I looked (was when I first started with CNC stuff) the limitation of not being able to save the toolpaths bothered me.. although I suspect you can just regenerate them, I'd have to look into it more..


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

jvanbrecht said:


> For the other person, I have not used vectric yet because last time I looked (was when I first started with CNC stuff) the limitation of not being able to save the toolpaths bothered me.. although I suspect you can just regenerate them, I'd have to look into it more..


With Vectric, I believe you can save your toolpaths and then use them if you buy one of the products. MEBCWD can tell us exactly how that works.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

jvanbrecht said:


> I was wrong about the max value, sorry about that. I posted in the other thread (although it appears I need a moderator to approve the post for now). I'm still confused about the max value now though, as I just checked the page where you sign up and register for the Startup version, and it is still listing the 100k limit, but I don't have access to the license at the moment, I'm guessing it has been updated there.


For some reason, they never updated the web page where they talk about the hobbyist and start up plans. It's only when you actually dig into it do you see the 1K limit. I fell into the same trap when they announced the change - didn't seem like they'd made any changes.


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## TimPa (Jan 4, 2011)

i can only speak for aspire/vectric. the oddity i see about vectric is that when you finish a CAD drawing, you save it as a .crv file. and when you want to edit that drawing/file, you (re)open the .crv file.

when your drawing is completed, you generate toolpaths ( .tap) files. these are what you open with your CAM software to direct the cnc. the .tap files are embedded in the .crv file.

when you close out, you cannot re-open a .tap file directly. you have to open the .crv file to get to the .tap files which you generated for that drawing.


you can save the .tap files in the purchased version. there may be trial versions where you cannot.... don't know.


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## Manswame (Jan 3, 2020)

TimPa said:


> i can only speak for aspire/vectric. the oddity i see about vectric is that when you finish a CAD drawing, you save it as a .crv file. and when you want to edit that drawing/file, you (re)open the .crv file.
> 
> when your drawing is completed, you generate toolpaths ( .tap) files. these are what you open with your CAM software to direct the cnc. the .tap files are embedded in the .crv file.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info!!!

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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

BTW the extension name of the toolpath file may vary depending on what controller software you are using. For LinuxCNC for example it makes files with .NGC as the extension. 

4D


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## jvanbrecht (Dec 22, 2008)

4DThinker said:


> BTW the extension name of the toolpath file may vary depending on what controller software you are using. For LinuxCNC for example it makes files with .NGC as the extension.
> 
> 4D


It is a flat text file, I export my toolpaths with the .nc extension, but you can call it whatever you want, even csv or .txt, just so long as whatever software you are using will open it. I make a few manual edits to my toolpath file before running it in CNCjs, one being I keep forgetting to remove the the GRBL M6 command and CNCjs craps out due to my overly sensitive limit switches and a grounding problem, since I am not doing a tool change. The generic GRBL postproc in Fusion360 keeps adding it, and I have not bothered to figure out where the option to remove it is, since I can just use vi to remove it. (M6 is the manual tool change command, and even though the router carriage is no where near the limit switches, the moment I touch the router, the limit switch trips.. annoying as hell.)


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

jvanbrecht said:


> It is a flat text file, I export my toolpaths with the .nc extension, but you can call it whatever you want, even csv or .txt, just so long as whatever software you are using will open it. I make a few manual edits to my toolpath file before running it in CNCjs, one being I keep forgetting to remove the the GRBL M6 command and CNCjs craps out due to my overly sensitive limit switches and a grounding problem, since I am not doing a tool change. The generic GRBL postproc in Fusion360 keeps adding it, and I have not bothered to figure out where the option to remove it is, since I can just use vi to remove it. (M6 is the manual tool change command, and even though the router carriage is no where near the limit switches, the moment I touch the router, the limit switch trips.. annoying as hell.)


In F360 manufacture module, select the post-process tool under actions and set "Output M6" to no. Facile, n'est-ce pas?

Here are my settings. Seems to work fine for GRBL.


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