# Dust collection "box" opinions



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

One of my requirements for a router table is good dust collection. I'm tending toward the following design, shown in this video, which is a box with a gap at the top providing suction for the dust collection. The dust falls/is pulled down past the router and into the DC hose. Here's a fine woodworking video explaining it.
Capture More Dust from Your Router Table - Fine Woodworking Video

Here's another design with a vac motor built into the table
Router Table with integral DC - Reader's Gallery - Fine Woodworking

Not sure I'd build the vac motor into the table, but perhaps a thien baffle type system could go there instead.

In the first design it looks like the dust collection would help keep the router clean, less dusty, in other words. My concern with both would be too much heat. Any opinions or experiences with this type design are welcome.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Definitely under table collection is a good thing. It requires that you have a fair amount of clearance between the bit and the insert ring. Look at these incra inserts 








They are designed to improve air flow for under table collection.

When using bushings and routing handheld, you need to add holes in the sub base to allow for decent DC.

As to an integral vac, I wouldn't do it. Too specialized. Using a regular DC will work fine and not just be limited to the RT. At the worst case, a separate shop vac with a separator would work ok and you can use it for other tools (like hand held routers and sanders). I set one up and use it. Picture of mine is attached.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

Nice cart, Phil. I have been using a dust collection setup like yours but without the cart, a dust collector and ridgid vac. Those incra rings seem like an excellent idea. I always wondered why they had those holes in them.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

What I saw wrong Katie was that there was no fresh air inlet equal in size to the inlet on the vac. Without makeup air going into the box the DC will heat up. Also, without fresh air going into the box there isn't enough cooling air for the router. That will cause the router to heat up resulting in early failure.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Chuck is right, you need airflow. Not only to avoid laboring the DC but dust and chips need a certain speed of airflow to get carried along. Airflow is more important than pressure (aka "suction"). I think the Incra inserts with the vent holes would help with that.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> What I saw wrong Katie was that there was no fresh air inlet equal in size to the inlet on the vac. Without makeup air going into the box the DC will heat up. Also, without fresh air going into the box there isn't enough cooling air for the router. That will cause the router to heat up resulting in early failure.


No it won't.

If you are flowing 400CFM, the air in the router box area is replaced approximately 3 times every second.

No chance of heat build up.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

The Fine Woodworking video (first link) does show him leaving space at the top of the "box" for airflow. That's the one I'm tending toward at this point. Thanks for the good discussion, Phil, Chuck, and Brad. It helped clarify some of it.

Phil, those incra inserts look helpful, too. With airflow but also with chip collection. Could a person make their own inserts with holes similar to the incra ones. Or adapt ones from the inserts Rockler sells. I'm going to use the Rockler/Benchdog plate for this table.

Edited to add:

Or maybe buy the incra rings and adapt them to the Rockler plate? 

I went to incra's site looking for those rings and found their clean sweep system here. 
http://incra.com/product_rta_cleansweep.html

It looks similar to the box idea


----------



## Phil Dalton (May 12, 2009)

*Keen Dust Router*

I am using, as are some others on this forum, the Keen Dust collector for router tables. Here is a Lumberjocks review: Review: Keen Dust Router Review. Above and below table dust collection - by ardbeg @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
I personally like the product and have seem mostly positive comments from others.
Phil


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Katie, I think you could make DC friendly rings but the material is metal and pretty thin. Not sure how I would do that with out metal machining capabilities. If you have access to a CNC that can handle the material, it would be pretty easy. Rockler does sell a lift that has the incra maglock rings which appear to be the same shape as their DC friendly ones.

The Incra clean sweep seems a bit expensive for basically a box around the router. I guess it makes sense if you have an open router table but any enclosure is pretty straightforward to adapt to DC for well less than $100.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

Phil Dalton said:


> I am using, as are some others on this forum, the Keen Dust collector for router tables. Here is a Lumberjocks review: Review: Keen Dust Router Review. Above and below table dust collection - by ardbeg @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community
> I personally like the product and have seem mostly positive comments from others.
> Phil


Phil, thanks for bringing this up. I've looked at this off and on but wanted to hear from someone who has used it. I'm thinking of using it with a triton router with the lift built into the router. My main concern is whether it would work with that and a musclechuck. I want to be able to change bits and do adjustments from the top of the table, or at least without too much bending over. I was going to make a lift, but that's on hold for now since I decided on the triton. Maybe for some other table later down the line.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Katie, check out the reviews on the woodcraft page for that product. Buy KEEN PRODUCTS Router Table Dust Collection Accessory at Woodcraft.com

Several of them complain about bit change difficulties.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> Katie, I think you could make DC friendly rings but the material is metal and pretty thin. Not sure how I would do that with out metal machining capabilities. If you have access to a CNC that can handle the material, it would be pretty easy. Rockler does sell a lift that has the incra maglock rings which appear to be the same shape as their DC friendly ones.
> 
> The Incra clean sweep seems a bit expensive for basically a box around the router. I guess it makes sense if you have an open router table but any enclosure is pretty straightforward to adapt to DC for well less than $100.


Sounds like beyond my capabilities to make these, no cnc. I couldn't find the rockler rings you are talking about unless it's the one made by incra for Rocker. or the ready to route lift. Those won't fit my rockler/bench dog plate, though. I agree that the clean sweep is expensive, but I think the Fine Woodworking version is the same concept and just made of scrap plywood . 

I'm trying to keep costs down for now, and the triton was my big purchase for this table. The rest will be construction grade lumber for the frame and very basic with a melamine shelving top. Later I may do something more elaborate when I see what my needs are. The Rockler/Bench Dog plate was the best price.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

sorry, I was referring to this lift

I suppose one could simply nibble holes in standard rings.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm a bit unhappy with my Samona dust collection chute. Th taper on the outlet pipe is so steep that the hose pops off from continual vibration. Dumb design.
Sorry, pic of wrong end of fitting...
Enlarged Product View


----------



## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Katie...I use fence vacuum with the Triton and rarely get enoughdust under the table to be overly concerned. If you have DC on fence, try it (if you haven't), it might be sufficient for your needs.

(Other Triton'ites can chime in)


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> sorry, I was referring to this lift
> 
> I suppose one could simply nibble holes in standard rings.


Thanks, Phil. That was what I thought, but not sure. I have difficulty with Rockler's search function since they changed their site a year or two ago, so I never know if I'm finding what is there. Yes, I may just nibble some holes in the rings I have if it seems necessary. I saw a wedge-shape cut on the fence side of a ring for improved dust collection. 

But darn, the incra stuff is so pretty and shiny, makes a person want to rush out and buy it! Those rings looked so cool. Actually, what I have from incra is very good and I've rarely read a bad review of something they make. except complaints about the price, of course.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I hear you. My wife bought me the Incra LS25 positioner for xmas and I just ordered their Mast-R-Lift II router lift for my PC 7518 router (not the rockler version). And to think, it all started from buying their little 6" T-Rule on a whim. (that little T-Rule totally rocks - brilliant piece of engineering)


----------



## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

My table sits on a box. The dust collector connects to the box. A separate hose connects the box to the fence dust port. In that way, I get both above and below table dust collection and some (not much) separation of the large chips. In addition, I seem to get enough air circulation thru the box to cool the router.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

PhilBa said:


> I hear you. My wife bought me the Incra LS25 positioner for xmas and I just ordered their Mast-R-Lift II router lift for my PC 7518 router (not the rockler version). And to think, it all started from buying their little 6" T-Rule on a whim. (that little T-Rule totally rocks - brilliant piece of engineering)


I started with the 3" t-rule and used it all the time, so I got the 6", then the 12". I use them all all the time. They hang on my wall on a magnetic strip.


----------



## Goblu (Mar 5, 2012)

Thrifty Tool Guy said:


> My table sits on a box. The dust collector connects to the box. A separate hose connects the box to the fence dust port. In that way, I get both above and below table dust collection and some (not much) separation of the large chips. In addition, I seem to get enough air circulation thru the box to cool the router.


Thanks for the input. I was thinking something like that. Good to hear of your experience.


----------



## Phil Dalton (May 12, 2009)

*kywoodchopper on Keen duster*

Here is a link to a thread by an active forum member regarding the Keen product. He is a much more knowledgeable woodworker than I. I have no experience with that router or musclechuck so I am of no help there. I would certainly want to read all available reviews before investing in a new tool or accessory. I am very happy with the Dust Router.
Phil 

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/46166-controlling-router-table-dust.html


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Goblu said:


> Sounds like beyond my capabilities to make these, no cnc.


Hi Katie

I don't see why you couldn't just drill holes into a plain plate, like they do on dosc brakes on performance motorbikes and cars. It would have much the same effect as those fancy shaped slots but could be done with a drill press

It might be worth mentioning that on my spindle moulder (shaper) there is a "box" below the table which is fed fromthe side by a rectangular duct. Dust extraction is done from the back of the fence using a 100mm (4in) diameter pipe to the dist extractor/chip collector. Much more effective than a vacuum cleaner IMHO



DaninVan said:


> I'm a bit unhappy with my Samona dust collection chute. The taper on the outlet pipe is so steep that the hose pops off from continual vibration. Dumb design.


So, no gaffer tape in Canada, Dan? 

Regards

Phil


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"So, no gaffer tape in Canada, Dan?"
If a gear clamp won't hold it, then it's a design issue. I take the 4" hose off frequently, to move it to my planer or jointer, so no, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of using any kind of tape. 
I'm going to try 'distressing' the surface with a rasp and see if the extra friction will cure the slippage.


----------



## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> "So, no gaffer tape in Canada, Dan?"
> If a gear clamp won't hold it, then it's a design issue. I take the 4" hose off frequently, to move it to my planer or jointer, so no, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of using any kind of tape.
> I'm going to try 'distressing' the surface with a rasp and see if the extra friction will cure the slippage.


What I have done in that kind of situation is to use the RocklerDust Right ports. I use flex hose to hook up to my different machines. It's kind of a PITA but I haven't yet decided out how I want to plumb my DC connections. The second image is of the adapter that you could put on the end of your collector using tape or clamps. I have to say that the Dust Right components work pretty well.


----------

