# Planner bit for end grain cutting boards?



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

I've made a few edge grain cutting boards but have been reluctant to try end grain due to the finishing operation. I don't want to try putting the boards through my thickness planner. I do have a 1/4 sheet and ROS but that would take way too long and probably wouldn't come out flat. I don't have, and can't afford, anything like a drum sander. So, that's why I've stuck with edge grain.

I received an Ad today for a large dado & planer bit from Infinity tools
 Dado & Planer Router Bits | Carbide Router Bits Does anyone have experience with a bit like this on end grain? Working with the usual suspects of Maple, Cherry and Walnut would it be prone to tear out? 

I don't have a set of router skis but Harrysin and others have posted great information about how to construct and use them and i'd be willing to give it a try. Except for the hardware (rods, washers, nuts) I have enough wood to make them. But, before I spend the money on the bit and the hardware for the skis I'd like to know, from experienced router forum members, if this method is likely to work and, if so, what would be the likelihood of tear out?


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I haven't tried it but I would suspect there is no comparison between the two methods. A planer blade rotates down, makes contact, and then lifts up. A router bit is continually cutting at 90* angles.The worst risk would be around the edges where the grain is unsupported laterally so if you skimmed around the edges and worked in a half inch roughly then you shouldn't have to worry about tearing chunks out. A set of skis will be more versatile than a sled but since cuttings boards are usually 2" or less thick then that will always be withing the working limits of a sled and it can be built out of plywood and/or mdf scrap for no cost. If you build a sled then you could try your largest straight bit and see how it works.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Barry, you might want to check around for better pricing than those quoted in the Infinity ad. I'm guessing those are MSR prices(?). 
Amazon.com: Freud 12-194 1-3/4-Inch Diameter by 3/4-Inch Double Flute Straight Router Bit with 1/2-Inch Shank: Home Improvement
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=083TVWA2SQSE472W0BRT


----------



## graycat (Oct 14, 2013)

Very sharp bit, slow advance, don't burn it. usually works for me but its is always a "suck it and see" operation.


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

I have run several end grain cutting boards through my thickness planer. Yup, I'm a contrarian.

I found that if I rounded the trailing edge of the board with my ROS, then tearout was eliminated. Since I was going to round over the edge of the cutting board anyway, this was not a problem.

Common problems that are cited:

* dulls planer blades. True, but I have found in woodworking that when I use sharp tools, they will get dull. If I'm making good cutting boards, that's part of the process. Solution: buy more blades.
* tear out. Happens, but can be minimized. Not a huge problem, in any event. Solution: round over the trailing edge before running it through the planer.
* boards break. I've never had that happen. Solution # 1: I use Titebond III glue, _which is stronger than the wood_, so I've never had a joint fail after making a proper joint (Use wood that's properly squared up, follow the directions from Titebond, and keep the glue joint clamped for several hours while it dries thoroughly. Plane the board after the glue has cured *at least* 24 hours.). Solution # 2: I make boards in the "brick" pattern to maximize joint strength and minimize the wood shattering potential.

I have a DW735 planer, and it does very good work.

All of that stated, many woodworkers don't want to use a planer in this way. I totally understand and support their decision. Never make a cut that you don't feel safe making.

After making & selling cutting boards for a couple of years, I did buy a Jet 16-32 drum sander, and I have stopped using my planer to flatten the boards. Now, I'm just burning sandpaper, which hurts my wallet as much as buying new planer blades.

Your mileage may vary, of course.

Check out the boards I'm making, and selling primarily at Southern California pop-up events, here.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Nice website, Henry! All your own items there? Great stuff!!


----------



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Barry747 said:


> I've made a few edge grain cutting boards but have been reluctant to try end grain due to the finishing operation. I don't want to try putting the boards through my thickness planner. I do have a 1/4 sheet and ROS but that would take way too long and probably wouldn't come out flat. I don't have, and can't afford, anything like a drum sander. So, that's why I've stuck with edge grain.
> 
> I received an Ad today for a large dado & planer bit from Infinity tools
> Dado & Planer Router Bits | Carbide Router Bits Does anyone have experience with a bit like this on end grain? Working with the usual suspects of Maple, Cherry and Walnut would it be prone to tear out?
> ...


Barry, you might shop around for a used 3"-4" belt sander. A lot of table tops were flattened in the old days with a beltsander. I got one on Craig's list for $50.

I was looking at that Infinity bit too and think I will get the large one, they look interesting .


Herb

Read Henry's post, a lot of good advice in it too.


----------



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Thanks for all of your input. It seems that a number of you lean towards the router solution. Herb, my concern with a belt sander is that I wouldn't end up with a really flat board. I'm not that good with hand held belt sanders.

Henry, those are some beautiful boards and very similar to what I'd like to make. I'm glad to see that you've been able to sell them. I'm contemplating a move to Florida and I'd want to do the same thing hoping to cover my costs to support my hobby. I see that you have a nice mix of edge and end grain boards. My planner is a DW 734. When you used your DW 735 did you run it at the higher or lower speed? The thought still kind of scares me but I could always start the board then run for cover :smile:

I still kind of like the Infinity bit. It has 4 blades, 2 at a positive angle and two at a negative angle. I'd think that would make for a nicer finish and be able to handle difficult figure better. 

I'd like to extend this question in terms of how to use the bit if I decide to buy it. I much prefer routing on a table rather than using the router in a jig or hand held. My question is, is the following method a good idea or suicide? I'd like to mount the bit in the table. I'd glue scrap runners on the edges of the board and set up stops so that I wouldn't cut into the runners. Then I'd run the board over the cutter head in the same way as if i was making a very wide and shallow dado. I do have very good under the table dust collection and i'd take relatively light cuts. Then i'd just cut off the runners. So, a good idea or a very bad idea?


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

Definitely an option for flattening end grain cutting boards. There are so many ways to do things ... I'd file this under "another way." I'm not sure it's better; I think I would feel like I was growing old doing all of those blind "dado" passes underneath the blank. Lots of resetting of the fence. Lots of passes ... which is why I don't think I'll use this method.

You would have trouble with tear out unless you round over or do sacrificial boards on all 4 sides. That seems pretty labor intensive, honestly. 

In answer to your question, Barry747, I always use my DW735 at high speed. When the blades are sharp, the finish is VERY smooth.

If you're going to make cutting boards for sale, here are 3 tidbits for you:

1. Make a huge variety of boards, all colors, shapes, sizes & thicknesses. And everyone will want something different.
2. People ask for big boards, so I carry them ... to and from every event. I hope you don't have a back problem.
3. Figure out a way to use your cutoffs & end cuts profitably. With volume, you will soon be *swimming* in boards that are too short/too thin/flawed.

I use my router table on just about every board (edge rounding & finger holds), and my handheld for juice grooves. If you figure out how to easily route finger holds on an end grain board without tear out, please tell me!


----------



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Henry, thanks for the additional information. As you indicate, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat, although, to be honest, I've never had the need to skin a cat. In the end, i'll probably just make a prototype board out of several species of scrap wood and test different options to see what works for me. At least i'll have two sides to destroy. Finger holds, as you point out, will also be an interesting challenge.

As you pointed out, one of my concerns about selling the boards at craft fairs is variety. Will a booth just selling cutting boards attract enough customers to be worth while or do you need a variety of object to sell? I'm really only interested in cutting boards at this time. Depending on where I end up (PA or FL) I will go to all of the craft fairs that I can find and see what's offered for sale along with the pricing. My biggest cost concern is the price of wood. I'll have to find a source that's affordable.


----------



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Henry, one more question. I've finished my boards by putting on one coat of straight mineral oil, giving it around a 1/2 hour to penetrate before wiping it off. I then give it a coat or two of spoon butter and buff to a soft satin sheen. My current version of the spoon butter is 8 parts mineral oil to 1 part white beeswax by weight. I started with more beeswax but didn't like the thicker consistency. On your site you mention that you use a board butter. If you don't mind sharing, what proportions do you use and do you measure it by volume or weight?


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

OK, let me work on a few thoughts and see if this helps. I have been selling cutting boards and cheese boards at pop-up events in Southern California since February 2015, so for a total of 18 months. Let me share my vast experience....

We just this weekend had our most successful event ever. My wife (the biz is Mrs. M's Handmade) makes small batch lotion products; she takes one 10x10 booth and my cutting boards are beside her in a 2nd booth, so we have a 10x20 space at most events at this point. We did a 2 day event, the Tehachapi Mountain Festival. Great attendance; great sales for us. All vendors seemed to do well at this event, and that's a rare thing.

I believe I did exceptionally well because, for the first time in several months, I had a "complete" inventory of my current offerings, and sold at least one of each of these:

1. Big end grain boards (16x20) with juice grooves & without
2. "Medium" end grain boards, ~ 15 x 18, again, with juice grooves and without
3. Popularly sized cutting boards, end grain & edge grain, 12 x 16, with juice grooves and without
4. Small boards, 10 x 14
5. Small cheese boards (under 12x12)
6. Large cheese boards (12x19; I make a unique surfboard shape with cove cuts)
7. Sous chef boards with handles
8. Lazy Susans
9. Chess boards

I did not sell this weekend, but had on display:

10. Custom engraved boards (but I'm certain I'll have at least 2 follow-up orders for these) ("Certain." Ha!)
11. Large sous chef boards
12. 17" pizza server

I sold 21 boards out of the 118 that I carried to the event, plus 1 commissioned piece. 22 boards, $1,900+ in sales. Best. Event. Ever.

Not included in my board sales are my board care kits, which sell for $10. (My wife makes them, so I count them as part of her lotion sales.) In each board care kit are:

1. 4 oz of mineral oil w/lemon essential oil in a squeeze bottle
2. 4 oz of board butter in a small jar ... I use a 1/3 beeswax + 2/3 mineral oil mix, measured by weight. That mix hardens in the jar, but has an applesauce-like consistency when it's in your hand being rubbed into the board. I find that's very easy to work with, and delivers a great wax topcoat. 

I tried different board butter recipes, including a very stiff recipe that had to be heated and rubbed in while very hot from the microwave. I didn't like that, so I now use the easier to handle recipe -- which my customers like as well. I recommend they use the board care kits on every wooden tool in their kitchen, and I'm now selling board care kits to people that don't buy boards. For those that do buy boards, in sales lingo, it's a "Would you like fries with that" closing. Buy a board, add on an extra $10 for a board care kit. A surprising number of people do that when asked.

People that want a discount ... might be offered a free board care kit instead. Cost of the kit is about $1.50 (packaging is the biggest expense), so it's a high margin item, and much cheaper than any discount I might approve (which I very rarely do). 

When asked to discount boards, I generally say no. Politely. I do offer volume discounts for repeat customers or multiple board buyers, and I do accept discounts on occasion - especially if I'm trying to break a sales record, as I did this weekend.

Finally, it's all about merchandising. Board care instructions are on my "not really a retail store" website, Mr M's Woodshop. Each product is tagged with basic instructions & the web address for reference. In addition, each tag lists the woods used in each unique board. I typically use about a dozen domestic & international hardwoods, and I always identify which woods are in each board. People REALLY appreciate that detail. Prices are marked on those tags, but when a person is giving the board as a gift (frequently true), then I take off the "priced" tag and replace it with a "priceless" tag that has the same wood information. 

I have never had a person not want a priceless tag when I offer it.

So, does this answer a few questions, both asked and unasked? That's a lot of information in a stream of consciousness on a Sunday night, but I hope it helps! Any more questions, keep them coming.

As I said many times this weekend, "I do this for fun. This is not my job; I only do woodworking in my spare time. I'm trying to pay for my hobby ... Lord knows I'm not making any money!" That's a true statement, and always gets a smile.

I review each event that I do as "Mr M's Woodshop" ... those run in my daily blog, MowryJournal.com. Search for "The Board Chronicles" to get a list of the events I've reviewed so far this year. The Tehachapi event review will run as soon as it's written - probably on 8/18/15.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Good stuff, Henry! Congrats on the big weekend. 
Gowan; post some pics! You know you want to.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

great read...
way to go Henry...


----------



## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Henry thank you for a very informative post. You do great work and I love your web site. I think this post will inspire a few folks to make cutting boards. Even if you don't sell them they make great gifts.

I have a quick question. Are these boards all you do? 

Don


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

I've been a woodworker/hobbyist for 40 years, but I never sold a thing I made until 2014. I never made a cutting board until 2013 ... so, clearly, I've been infected by cutting boards.

At this point, I'm really only making "cutting boards and wooden serving pieces" in the shop. Oh, and the wooden display pieces needed for Mrs. M's Handmade at the pop-up events that we're doing. We keep tweaking our display, so that's a constant discussion in our home ... and an ongoing thing to work on in the shop as well.

I only do woodworking as a hobby; I have a real job selling computer systems to radio stations. I treasure my shop time because it is NOT talking on the phone about computer systems!

I have learned to keep good records for my "cutting board problem." This year, I have sold 262 pieces (which would be small cheese boards for $30 up to full size, counter top cutting boards for $250). My current inventory is about 150 pieces, and I think I'll end the year with sales of about 600. So you see, I do have a problem ... and I have a lot more work to do. 

After the holiday rush, though, I will rebuild my shop cabinets, including a new router table cabinet. I WILL DO THIS, and it will be a total pleasure!

Man does not live by cutting boards alone.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I love this big one in the back! Man, that's stylish!!


----------



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Henry, Thanks for all of the advice, and, the pictures of your set up for the show are great. From what I can see, it seems that many of your boards are edge grain stripes. Is that true and, if so, are they the best sellers? I know you said that it seems that everyone wants something different.

I've posted these pictures in prior posts. The first picture is of the first board that I made. It came out nice but, after looking at yours, mine seems rather ordinary. The second one, Purple Heart and Maple, was my first attempt at a non rectangular board. The third one, Padauk and Maple, is the same pattern as the second but I varied the width of the maple to give it a different look. I made it as an anniversary gift for friends and also made a set of coasters to go along with it using the opposite color combination. I finished the coasters with Danish Oil and Poly. The coasters came out nice in the end but unless someone would pay my about $1,000 for a set i'll never make them again. 

Again, wherever I end up, i'd have to see what's showing in the area and how it's priced. The oval boards are a lot more work than the rectangular ones.

I gave a jar of board butter to the couple who we gave the cheese board to. I told them to warm it in the microwave for about 30 seconds to make it easier to spread. I would never sell board butter to anyone and tell them to heat it before applying. Some idiot would heat it for 30 minutes instead of 30 seconds and them sue me to cover the cost of treating their 3rd degree burns.

One final question, where do you buy your lumber?


----------



## rrrun (Jun 17, 2014)

Barry747, love the oval boards, particularly # 3 with the (?) routed groove for crackers. You made the template yourself? I intend to make similar boards for this Xmas if I can get there. I would definitely sell all 3, no problem.

I know there are people making some very artistic cutting boards, but I don't think I could get any profit out of boards that are more time-intensive. I already have people telling me my boards are too pretty to use, so more beauty + cost would depress sales, I think. And, since this is a HOBBY, I only make what I want to make.

Shape & color are very personal things. I've got a 15" x 1-1/2" round end grain hard maple board that's probably my oldest construction at this point that is not sold. I love the shape, but it seems to confuse people, who ask if it's a lazy susan. The idea of a round cutting board is apparently foreign to all but the most dedicated of Food Channel watchers.

I've sold everything from 7" x 10" x 5/8" cheese boards to 18" x 24" x 1-1/2" cutting boards. Particularly in the smaller sizes, those are edge grain, but I've sold all sizes of both edge and end grain boards. Almost all are rectangular, though I am now making several shaped board designs,so the band saw is getting more work these days.

Edge grain boards are cheaper & easier; I've made more of them and I've sold more of them. At this point, I struggle to make small enough boards to justify the $30 price point I strive for. I like making bigger stuff, but I know if I don't have inexpensive boards, sales will go down. I want to appeal to wallets of all sizes.

As I added BDBs (Big Damn Boards) that I carry to every event (it's a retail pun, as I do carry the boards from the Jeep to the booth & in the booth & back again), I'm selling more and more of them. End grain BDBs with juice grooves are certainly a greater proportion of sales, if only because they're $250 and you've got to sell several of the small cheese boards to equal that #. If I'm only going to do 20 or so sales at a big event, and if I can make them the bigger boards....

The first cheese board is maple & purpleheart ... couldn't keep that design in stock. Made 3 of them. Then, I made 4 using cherry instead of maple, and months later, I've sold one. Was it the wood change? I've stopped finding people that love that design? I did the display photo with the original design, and so it sold the boards? Don't know.

I've got 4x lumber yards I go to that are spread around the LA area, which includes a Rockler that has very good sales every few months for the exotics that I use. I mail order Birds Eye Maple & Honey Locust, because I can't source them locally. I also haunt Craigslist. That doesn't support the volume that I need, but I do find occasional bargains out of people's garages that help bring my cost of goods down. Sometimes.

If you're having fun being covered in sawdust, then keep at it. More fun awaits.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

The second one down, the one with the staggered 'tooth' design, is gorgeous!!! 
I can see why your clients say they're too nice to cut on.
You've got a great eye for the design features, Henry.


----------



## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Henry, I, too, really like the second one.  The dental design is very eye catching. Personally, I like high contrast. You mentioned that the purple heart/maple sold better than the purple heart/cherry. Maybe it was the difference in contrast between the woods. Don’t know, only a guess.

About my oval boards. My wife asked for the shape so I drew a few out and none of them looked right – too wide, too narrow, I couldn’t find the “goldilocks” shape of just right. Then I thought of the golden ratio and tried a 1:1.6 and it looked good. The boards are 16” wide and 10” high. I found a web site - How To Draw an Oval - Visual Animated Oval Ellipse Layout Calculator - Imperial - that drew the shape for me. I used 16 and 10 as the major and minor axis then printed it out. It came out on a couple of sheets that I taped together then transferred to ½” MDF to make the template. For the trough for the crackers I bought a 1 ¼” Whiteside bowl bit so I wanted to make the trough 1 ½” wide. For various reasons, too embarrassing to explain, I ended up at 1 5/8” which actually worked out nicely. I used a compass to draw the trough following the outside edge of the oval. 

After making the template I had to make a decision about the glue up. I could start with a rectangular board and have a lot of waste or make different length strips and have a challenging glue up. I chose the latter as you can see in the picture. After running the glue up through the thickness planner I traced the oval and cut it out on the band saw. I then used double sided tape and stuck the template to the board and used a pattern trim bit with top and bottom bearings in my router table to shape the edges. 

Most of my routing has been on the router table so I didn’t have much experience with a hand held plunge router. The first thing I learned is that I couldn’t balance the router as I approached the edge of the template. Soooo, I made another template, big enough to fit the base of the router, to route the trough. That worked much better. As a note, that bit creates massive amounts of shavings. After that, it was back to the router table to round everything over.

It was a fair amount of work to make the cheese boards. I have no idea what a board like that should sell for. However, as a hobbyist, I do enjoy making them for friends and family.


----------

