# Gavs Box/mortise and tenon jig



## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Ok, here goes.

I know it's a bit complicated for a jig, but it's born out of necessity as there are a lot of things I can't easily buy here such as guide bushes and pattern bits with different size bearings.
This is the idea I have for a jig which has x,y,z motion facilitated by drawer slides, and the routers plunge.
Drawer slides move forwards and backwards from the 'closed' position.
A bit like these http://www.b2b-center.com/uploadedimages/13617151.jpg
They work very smoothly without any unwanted movement.
So, the router is fixed to the perspex top plate of the jig. The jig can either be clamped to the bench top with the work piece then clamped to the jig, or for large pieces, you could clamp the jig to the work piece which could lay horizontal on the bench.
X and Y axis of motion can be limited or fixed in place with the stops. Haven't quite figured out the details of these yet, but shouldn't be too hard.
For box joints, I use the Oak Park concept of a spacer. It's the blue bit you can see in the images. I'm thinking you could have different sized spacers that are screwed into place. Probably I'll have to make some slots to be able to position them the correct distance from the blade.(haven't drawn that in the design at this point)
The way it works for mortise and tenons should be obvious given the stops and directions of movement.
The row of holes is for placing clamps to hold the work piece. Thinking of having a dado on that surface to place a vertical stop.
I've colour (sorry about the U) coded the image and placed a key so it's easier to figure out what you're looking at.
I hope it makes sense to everyone, and look forward to getting some feedback.
I have no idea when I'll get to make it for real as I don't have a workshop at the moment and I have a 2.5 year old son who takes up a lot of my time.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Gavin:

Boy, you went to a lot of effort to produce those drawings. However, what you've drawn is an inverted router table. You don't need template guides or bushings or bearings unless you're following irregular patterns with curves etc. The alternative is the Router Workshop philosophy's router table, which you can make yourself, and you can even make the base plates.

If you absolutely need an inverted structure, learn about skis.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Very impressive sight, I like what you did out of necessity. I believe that you said that the tub collars were not available? Am sorry to hear that. Very nice work to explain your new set-up! Glad that it works well tor you.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Allthunbs, I guess it is a bit like an inverted router table, only smaller.
I forgot to mention the main reason for thinking of this idea.
I want to make a table using large box joints such as in the example attached.
The table top(1500mmx800mmx30mm) would be way too hard for one person to pass over a router table, and even the leg parts would be awkward. After coming up with the idea with this purpose in mind, I realized it could be used for other joints as well.
What technique is used for making a mortise on the router table ? Router lift?

It wasn't so hard to do those drawings. I used Google Sketchup, and found it very easy to use once you watch the how to videos. This was my 3rd drawing using it, and the first time I've used any 3d drawing software. It's made for woodworkers. You can download it for free.

Dutchman46, thanks for the compliment. Unfortunately I've yet to make the jig for real so don't know how well it will work yet.
Obviously when I get my hands on a set of guide collars/bushings or a set of pattern bits, I could just use a template system.
Hard to believe that here in Croatia(population4.5million) there isn't a specialty woodworkers shop, and despite the fact there is a Bosch shop, they don't have spiral bits, guide collars or pattern bits with top mounted bearings. They told me they're not available for this market :wacko: 
That's just the start of things that aren't available here.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Woops, forgot the pic of the table example.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Gavin,your drawings are first class and I hope that one day you do make the jig and I also hope that it will live up to your expectations, however we do have a saying, KISS, keep it super simple. So far as routing mortices and dowelling are concerned, a router lifter has been the fastest, easiest method that I have ever used. Somewhere in my gallery is a photo shoot showing how I made the simple router lifter and this link gives some idea of what can be achieved with it.
I'm sure that when Peter, istracpsbass, who lives in _stria, Croatia _sees your post he will give you advice as to where cutters and template guides can be obtained.

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/4892-first-project-using-my-nikilift.html


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

I see you're in W.A. Harry. I used to live in Fremantle for many years.
Once i have space, I might have to build a router table with a lift. Seems it could be very useful. 
Peter gave me a good lead for router stuff in Germany, but as he's already found out, not much in Croatia as far as a good range of router accessories goes.

I'm going to give myself 2 weeks to actually build this jig. The table could be a while off.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gavin

I love jigs,,I can't wait till you make this one and post some snapshots, I don't think I every saw a table and leg made that way.. 

can't wait to see it 

====


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Gavin
> 
> I love jigs,,I can't wait till you make this one and post some snapshots, I don't think I every saw a table and leg made that way..
> 
> ...


I've noticed you love jigs Bob.
I think I've seen a table made that way, but I'm not sure if it's a memory or a dream  Certainly can't find one by googling. I like the look of it, kind of like it's stitched or woven together ( I sew as well ).
Probably I could just send the designs to a local CNC cutting service and have them do it, but that defeats the challenge 
I've just checked out the WoodBoss(same as woodrat?) and it seems to me that in a way, my jig isn't that different in concept.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Sometimes you just gotta make a tool to do a specific job eh! Remember the video of the screw advance box joint jig the other guy made that would cut multiple boards at a time? 

I can see the advantage you envisioned for large and or heavy materials, however have you considered making a template out of smaller stock that you could clamp to the project and then route with a hand held and template guide?


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Yep, considered a template, but alas, no template guides available for sale in this whole country and the import and postage costs are extortionate !! What's sales tax in the U.S. ? Here it's 23% !!!
So far I've bought the 4 drawer slides for approx. US$12, picked up some perspex offcuts for free at a local sign makers, and I have a left over sheet of 19mm MDF for the bulk of the jig. I also picked up a length of rectangular box section aluminium at the local scrap yard for about 50 cents, which I will try to turn into T-track.
If this whole jig comes in under US$20 it will be worth it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi gav

No sales tax if you buy the items you need on line..MLCS WILL SHIP ITEMS TO YOU..WITHOUT SALES TAX..

Peter who is a member and is a neighbor of yours..

MLCS Accessories index

" Q: How about Foreign Shipping?
A: Sure, MLCS is happy to process orders for our international customers. We can ship to most countries. Shipping charges are based on the size and weight of the order and the country to which we are shipping. International shipping charges will be displayed accurately in your online shopping cart (subject to offline verification). Most orders ship via 1st Class Mail International and Priority Mail International. However, not all shipping methods displayed are available to all countries due to insurance requirements. Please note that customs duties, taxes, and other import fees may be imposed on shipments by some countries. MLCS cannot be responsible for these charges. We urge you to check with local authorities regarding these charges prior to ordering if you are not already familiar with them. Please check the appropriate box in the shopping cart indicating your acceptance of any duties and taxes. We will not be able to process your order without this verification."
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gav said:


> Yep, considered a template, but alas, no template guides available for sale in this whole country and the import and postage costs are extortionate !! What's sales tax in the U.S. ? Here it's 23% !!!
> So far I've bought the 4 drawer slides for approx. US$12, picked up some perspex offcuts for free at a local sign makers, and I have a left over sheet of 19mm MDF for the bulk of the jig. I also picked up a length of rectangular box section aluminium at the local scrap yard for about 50 cents, which I will try to turn into T-track.
> If this whole jig comes in under US$20 it will be worth it.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks for that Bob. I know that Companies shouldn't charge sales tax on goods that end up outside the US, I was just curious as to how much it is.
For sure it's a lot less than here.
There is a way I could avoid import duties if someone was to send me stuff as a personal gift. Shame I don't have family in the U.S.


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## tigerhellmaker (Sep 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi gav
> 
> No sales tax if you buy the items you need on line..MLCS WILL SHIP ITEMS TO YOU..WITHOUT SALES TAX..


Its true 
But check law in your country.

I order something in USA > 210$ Tax 0%.
Where order arrived I must pay tax and another strange stud to my government > next 210$ ....


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

gav said:


> So far I've picked up some perspex offcuts for free at a local sign makers,


Hi Gavin

Is that the place on, IIRC, Savska? They've CNC cutting facilities there and did several things for me like a circle cutting jig quite reasonably.

Cheers

Peter


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI gav

My sales taxs is 7 cents per dollar,,you should chat with Peter ,by the way MLCS sales a vert..router setup that can do tenons, like making duck soup  very easy and very quick.. any size and up to 4" long with or without the haunch in place..the router set up can do dowel pins also all day long and they all come out right on the button by using the plunge router, with or without the woodrat bar....
Plus many more jobs..,sliding dovetails,dado slots,etc.


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gav said:


> Thanks for that Bob. I know that Companies shouldn't charge sales tax on goods that end up outside the US, I was just curious as to how much it is.
> For sure it's a lot less than here.
> There is a way I could avoid import duties if someone was to send me stuff as a personal gift. Shame I don't have family in the U.S.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

istracpsboss said:


> Hi Gavin
> 
> Is that the place on, IIRC, Savska? They've CNC cutting facilities there and did several things for me like a circle cutting jig quite reasonably.
> 
> ...


Peter, it was a place called Signum Max in Jankomir where the big hardware stores are. A friend of mine who has stuff cut there put me onto them.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Gav,

Very interesting design for you tool there. If I may suggest, take a look at Bj's gallery, if my memory serves correctly, he made a vert. router table identical to MLCS that can do the same job you're wanting to do. A lot less complicated than what's in your drawings.


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi Hamlin,
Took a lot at the vertical router table and I wouldn't say it's more or less complicated than my jig. It seems it's basically the same thing apart from the fact that on the vertical router table, you move the work piece across the cutter, and on mine, you move the cutter across the work piece. I presume you also have to use stops with the vertical table as you would have to with my jig.
I hope to be able to use mine in a vertical or horizontal position and it would be portable.

Bobj3, have you ever thought of adding to the vertical 'face' of the table an 'Oak Park' like spacer for registering box joints ? Looks like that could work well for box joints on large pieces.
I was even thinking that the joint size could even be larger than the cutter. If the cutter was the same size as the spacer, then the distance between the two would determine the size of the joint. You would just make several passes, moving the workpiece(or in my case the router) to cut the full width of the joint. The spacer would register the left and right shoulders of the joint.
Does that make sense ?
Man, I need to build this thing to see if it works like I think it does. I've got a feeling I'm missing something.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi gav

If you look close you will see the router will move up or down very easy or if you make a woodrat bar the router will move in or out very easy  but I do use the the OP spacer jigs for box joints I have found out they work right every time with almost no setup..

You can turn the vert.router setup into a woodrat so quick because ,it's almost the same thing, it's true the stock must be moved by hand by the bit, most of the time but it's not a big trick to set it up to use a clamp/track setup to move it by the bit with a crank but I always try to keep things in the KISS way..It makes me recall my ShopSmith it was a great tool but a real PITA to use ,trying to use it for to many jobs.

I have seen so many tools made to do more than one job, the one that comes to mind is the tool that was a hammer,screw driver,pry bar,nailer puller,beer open all in one tool, great to look at but not to use,, I think it comes down to use the right tool for the right job..

If you get to far alway from the KISS way it's just one more tool that you will not use..

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gav said:


> Hi Hamlin,
> Took a lot at the vertical router table and I wouldn't say it's more or less complicated than my jig. It seems it's basically the same thing apart from the fact that on the vertical router table, you move the work piece across the cutter, and on mine, you move the cutter across the work piece. I presume you also have to use stops with the vertical table as you would have to with my jig.
> I hope to be able to use mine in a vertical or horizontal position and it would be portable.
> 
> ...


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

After a bit of 3d modelling I realized a flaw in my logic for making box joints larger than the cutter size, so I'll scrap that idea. For now.

Bobj3, are you saying you've mounted the Oak Park box jig on your Vertical Table set up ?

I don't think my jig is any less simple than a router table with all the jigs you would need to do the same things, but then again I don't have a router table and jigs or a lot of experience. Time will tell.

Funny you should mention that hammer multi-tool. Last year in The Bauhaus hardware they had a hammer with a bottle opener on the other end instead of the nail pulling claw ???!! I have no idea what kind of beer drinker can't open a bottle with any tool in their box. Crikey, I can even do it with my car key !!
We don't have twist tops here by the way.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gavin

"Bobj3, are you saying you've mounted the Oak Park box jig on your Vertical Table set up ? "

Nope, I use them on the standard router table..they work so well not need to reinvent, what works very well..

But I will say they could be setup on the vert table very easy..and just use them for the indexing or to say part of them..

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gav said:


> After a bit of 3d modelling I realized a flaw in my logic for making box joints larger than the cutter size, so I'll scrap that idea. For now.
> 
> Bobj3, are you saying you've mounted the Oak Park box jig on your Vertical Table set up ?
> 
> ...


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