# circular saw versus table saw



## jo252011 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi, am new to wood working, i would like to ask what would be the best tool use to cut a plywood or mdf boards? Some people use portable 7.25inch power saw mount it upside down on a plywood board. They say its not advisable, the powersaw will be damage. if using a table saw, what would be the best diameter of the saw and its hp power?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Joseph

watch this youtube video for ideas

YouTube - DIY Track Saw (comparable to Festool and Dewalt)

For 3/4 sheet goods a 7.25" circular saw is ok if you don't have a table saw.

I plan to try this shortly to cut down sheets for a chest of drawers I am planing.

Many people like to cut the 4' x 8' sheet into smaller sizes before trimming on the table saw.


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## Titus A Duxass (Jan 6, 2010)

I use this simpler version - http://wayneofthewoods.com/circular-saw-cutting-guide.html


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

jo252011 said:


> Hi, am new to wood working, i would like to ask what would be the best tool use to cut a plywood or mdf boards? Some people use portable 7.25inch power saw mount it upside down on a plywood board. They say its not advisable, the powersaw will be damage. if using a table saw, what would be the best diameter of the saw and its hp power?


Running a saw upside down is no problem but is not advisable if using a Skilsaw with a worm drive. It has oil inside & continuous running upside down use is not good in the long run for the saw. I would use another type if planning to mount a saw upside down. A table saw would be the best way. These usually use 10" blades. If using a bench top or contractors style you should use a thin kerf blade as these saws don't have the power that a cabinet saw has (3+hp).


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

Titus A Duxass said:


> I use this simpler version - Free Circular Saw Cutting Guide Plan - Free Panel Saw Plans


This is the best way to cut down large sheets. You can make or buy the guide. I made mine and it's extremely accurate if you make it right. You can make it with a circular saw too.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Using a circular saw with a guide edge, or a track saw (essentially, just a fancier guide edge), is a convenient way to cut sheet goods, if the stock is supported on saw horses or other solid surfaces. Using the right blade for the type of material is also a point to consider. 

Using a circular saw inverted and clamped into a surface to make a make-shift table saw, while possible, is dangerous. Such arrangements have none of the even rudimentary safety features of a good table saw.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Titus' link has a great guide that works very well. To that guide, I added a T track and T bar on the saw plate/shoe. Not necessary, but insures totally straight cuts.
Also, I'd suggest using a 1 1/2" or 2" sheet of insulating foam under the sheet goods.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joseph

It's not a good ideal to use the power hand saw up side down, here's one you can make with stuff you have around the shop, it will work on the power hand saw or the router..

If you do a lot of plywood you may want to build a panel saw like the one below..the safe way to cut plywood..and you have the room for it.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5311&filter=panel saw
=======


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Titus A Duxass said:


> I use this simpler version - Free Circular Saw Cutting Guide Plan - Free Panel Saw Plans


Hi Titus:

Yup, I used to use the same thing but there was something that made them less than perfect. I had one setup for each of my circular saws, a PorterCable and a Skil. But, the baseplates for both saws were not perfectly flat, square and aligned to the blades. The resulting cuts were not bad but not perfect either. The one suggested by James is indeed a solution but I would suggest a hybrid between yours, James's and Bob's suggestions.

When you made the baseplate for the saw or router, make sure that the baseplate is set perfectly square to the blade or bit and perfectly parallel to the guide fence, whether you set it with a groove or a bar.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Titus A Duxass said:


> I use this simpler version - Free Circular Saw Cutting Guide Plan - Free Panel Saw Plans


I have made one similar with hardboard/masonite base and plywood guide.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Joseph

This is another cheap version

YouTube - MAKING STRAIGHT CUTS WITH A HOMEMADE JIG

As you will see, you do not need a table saw to work with large sheets.


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## bigjimw (Feb 16, 2011)

Having a (very) bad back, I've gotten into the habit of having the lumber yard or home center do my rough cuts for me. Generally 2 or 3 cuts per sheet are free. Often, I'll just have them rip my sheet goods at 16 or 24 inches. Once home, I'll free hand the rough crosscuts with a skilsaw and then clean up on a table saw using a sled for the cross cut. 

Saves me a lot of heavy lifting. Especially that 3/4inch mdf.. whew.. that's heavy stuff.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Hi Joseph
> 
> This is another cheap version
> 
> ...


 I made a guide just like the one in the video this past summer except out od some leftover 1/4 ply for the base and some leftover 5/8 OSB for the saw guide. I was still having trouble cutting straight until I realized that the saw was not square to it's base. After I pushed one of the split pins out holding the base to the saw and did some filing and shimming, I got the saw lined up and it cut near perfectly. The added advantage of using this instead of a straightedge is that the guide shows you where the blade will be cutting, i.e. no measuring offsets.
If you want to accurately cut full sheet goods on a table saw you need several things. One, you need a good solid fence that is reasonably long, like an Excalibur or Biesemeyer. You also need to be able to support the sheet as you finish cutting which means you need an outfeed table or rollers that will support both halves of the cut sheet after you have finished pushing them through the saw. Last, you need good technique and this is usually only gained through experience. In the shortrun, it is much easier to use a guide and break full sheets down into smaller pieces first. The guide jig that James provided the link to is an excellent way to do it.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jo252011 said:


> Hi, am new to wood working, i would like to ask what would be the best tool use to cut a plywood or mdf boards? Some people use portable 7.25inch power saw mount it upside down on a plywood board. They say its not advisable, the powersaw will be damage. if using a table saw, what would be the best diameter of the saw and its hp power?


I'd say it was a lot more likelty to damage the user than the saw! The others have suggested a sawboard, a home-made version of the guide rail systems sold by Festool and the like, and I have to agree with them. One way to preserve your blade is to put the sheet material down on a sheet of insulation material such as 3in thick Kingspan or expanded polystyrene foam. That way the blade sticks through imnto low-cost material rather than cutting the trestles or other supports you are using.


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## jo252011 (Feb 5, 2011)

hello everyone, thanks to all. sorry for late reply, busy on work. 
Overall i think a homemade jig will be the best option for cutting a mdf 4'x8' boards and placing a circular upside is really a bad idea. hehehe. but still i think its also a good idea to have a contractor table saw just for small piece cutting (more precise and easy to align) . but i think using a homemade jig is not that easy as it looks in actual cutting since our 18mm mdf board here is so hard to cut. hehe. and sometimes we cut 40sheets in a month for modular cabinetry.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Joesph,

The ideas I have put forward were based on you being a hobby woodworker without a frequent need to cut down large panels.

If you are a professional cabinetmaker. I would suggest a table saw with sliding table.


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## jo252011 (Feb 5, 2011)

thank you Sir James, i think the best tool for me is a table saw with sliding table. Sir which brand or specs can you suggest?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jo252011 said:


> hello everyone, thanks to all. sorry for late reply, busy on work.
> Overall i think a homemade jig will be the best option for cutting a mdf 4'x8' boards and placing a circular upside is really a bad idea. hehehe. but still i think its also a good idea to have a contractor table saw just for small piece cutting (more precise and easy to align) . but i think using a homemade jig is not that easy as it looks in actual cutting since our 18mm mdf board here is so hard to cut. hehe. and sometimes we cut 40sheets in a month for modular cabinetry.


Joseph:

Note MDF is Toxic. Make sure you wear breathing protection when you cut it. A few cuts you can tough out but the quantity that you're talking about requires that you wear breathing protection and eye protection. Don't burn MDF either. 

In North America we have information called MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that outline any potential problems with a material. When you start to work with something new, make sure you access the MSDS to know what you're dealing with.


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## jo252011 (Feb 5, 2011)

allthunbs said:


> Joseph:
> 
> Note MDF is Toxic. Make sure you wear breathing protection when you cut it. A few cuts you can tough out but the quantity that you're talking about requires that you wear breathing protection and eye protection. Don't burn MDF either.
> 
> In North America we have information called MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that outline any potential problems with a material. When you start to work with something new, make sure you access the MSDS to know what you're dealing with.


Thank you, allthunbs. I dont know that mdf are toxic materials but the workplace are 2sides walls and the other sides are open air. Where can we access the Material Safety Data Sheet, am sure that there are MSDS here?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

jo252011 said:


> thank you Sir James, i think the best tool for me is a table saw with sliding table. Sir which brand or specs can you suggest?


Hi Joseph,

I cannot suggest a particular brand/model as waht is available in Australia will not be available in the Philippines.

Check out other cabinet shops in your area to see what they reccomend.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

jo252011 said:


> Thank you, allthunbs. I dont know that mdf are toxic materials but the workplace are 2sides walls and the other sides are open air. Where can we access the Material Safety Data Sheet, am sure that there are MSDS here?


Here's the MSDS for the Flakeboard brand of MDF. The poisonous bit is the formaldehyde. I would think all MDF share the same recipe.

http://www.flakeboard.com/msds/Flakeboard_Superior_MDF_MSDS.pdf


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## sbjforumman (Aug 30, 2012)

There are several options for making your own version but I just find it convenient to have a saw that is designed to work how I want to use it. Out of the two options you suggest I'd say table saw. Here is a decent review that helped me with my buying decision. Not sure if it will help but it compares three good saws in a decent fashion.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

sbjforumman said:


> There are several options for making your own version but I just find it convenient to have a saw that is designed to work how I want to use it. Out of the two options you suggest I'd say table saw. Here is a decent review that helped me with my buying decision. Not sure if it will help but it compares three good saws in a decent fashion.


Sean-

Commenting on an old thread without quotes? That makes it hard to follow just what you are commenting on....

Me? Both. 

Circular saw with guides (or rails) on top of a breakdown table or just on top of 2x's between two saw horses... Great. Depends on the blade you have, so may not be as finished as using a table saw. Advantage- you still have to get it on the table, but you don't have to wrestle the weight while cutting. Easier technique for...

Table Saw great. Usually more accurate and finished. If an operator that has problem with a 4x8 sheet, the accuracy won't be there. You have to be able to keep the sheet steady and feed it consistently without losing control of the support. If you can't keep the kerf from pinching the blade, you might just have the sheets kick-back on you. You have to be able to feel and adjust for that = experience. If you can support the sheet, it will be more accurate. Lots of other factors scale that up, such as the size of the table extensions, infeed and outfeed tables... (Look in my uploads) Then if there's a sliding table... that all becomes easy and a mood point.

I've been doing this for a long time as a career- and I still flip between breaking down sheets with either a circular saw and a table saw, whatever seems best at the time and the tools I have on-hand.

For a recommendation to someone else in most cases? If no or little experience, use a circular saw. Experienced with skills, use a Table Saw.

That's my 2 cents.


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## Marcel M (Jun 14, 2012)

A stationary table saw with an 8' out-feed table is my choice in a workshop environment. My personal choice is a Powermatic 5hp model 66 like this one:

Powermatic 66 Table Saw 5HP Motor - YouTube

If you want portability than the way to go is a track saw and guide. There are several on the market. I tend to like the Makita track saw and guide because the saw can be set to make an angle cut without fear of tipping over. The following video shows a great portable system using a Festool track saw and track guide developed by a cabinetmaker and used for field work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJoGTf6KL8s&feature=share&list=ULsJoGTf6KL8s

Festool Track Saw & Parallel Guides - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxskNOUKTiI&feature=share&list=ULQxskNOUKTiI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCWj36qWuQ4&feature=share&list=ULXCWj36qWuQ4

I hope that this helped.

Marcel


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> Note MDF is Toxic. Make sure you wear breathing protection when you cut it


Hi Ron

Is it, though? E1 grade (the type sold in Europe) contains almost no formaldehydes (in fact less than sawn pine), but the concern over the extremely fine dust sawing and routing MDF should be taken seriously by all woodworkers. Inhaling extremely fine dust can and will bring on bronchial infections and can lead to incurable respiritory tract diseases such as pneumoconiosis in the longer term. That;s why all MDF dust should be extracted at the machine

Regards

Phil


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## Ben I (May 21, 2010)

Joesph --

Most folks would agree that breaking down large sheets of plywood on a table saw isn't such a great idea.

Try cutting your sheets down to rough size with a circular saw. prior to final sizing on your table saw.

Get yourself a little weight metal wall stud from your local building supplier. Clamp it to your large sheet as a very inexpensive guide for your circular saw. 

How you support the sheet goods is up to you. I usually lay the sheet on my driveway supported by 2x4's adjacent to the underside of the planned cut line.


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## jo252011 (Feb 5, 2011)

*aftermath. . .*

after a year of experience and experiment, i have both a table saw and more circular saw. Table saw is great for feeding big sheet of boards which enables us to have a very precise parallel cutting while circular saw is good in cutting small size board, so i need both table saw and circular saw. The bigger diameter blade is advisable for table saw, it can cut faster and sharper. i have lots of circular saw for on.site cutting during installation.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ben in Cypress Texas said:


> Joesph --
> 
> Most folks would agree that breaking down large sheets of plywood on a table saw isn't such a great idea.
> 
> ...


On the "metal wall stud" point, take a look at *cold rolled channel* available from the commercial steel stud and drywall suppliers.
Framing Accessories
Cheap, straight, and very rigid! A lot of uses around the shop. Great as a straight edge for cutting material with a utility knife (sheet flooring for example)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

jo252011 said:


> after a year of experience and experiment, i have both a table saw and more circular saw. Table saw is great for feeding big sheet of boards which enables us to have a very precise parallel cutting while circular saw is good in cutting small size board, so i need both table saw and circular saw. The bigger diameter blade is advisable for table saw, it can cut faster and sharper. i have lots of circular saw for on.site cutting during installation.


Joseph-
After too many years, 2 broken backs and a broken neck...
You see this of mine?
















Great if you are breaking down a "lot" of sheets at one time on a jobsite.

If only doing a few sheets, and I want to get them very accurate, then I have a 2x3 lattice that I use as a breakdown tabletop top. I throw/clamp on there or just on saw horses, use a circular saw and guides. But that lattice is just extra to haul around... I use is more at home than on jobsites.

If only one or two sheets, then I have 4 2x3's that are easier to haul around, throw them on saw horses. Circular saw with guides.

That logic of that example is like... I can plane or do dado's with a circular saw. It might not be the best tool for the job or the most accurate, but if I'm 2 floors up, legs wrapped around framing trying to set a beam in support brackets, I already have my circular saw with me, don't have to take that beam out, grab another tool, set that tool up. Then heck yes, a couple seconds and it's through. No decision to be made on that...

On the previous poster, Ben- TS a bad idea? Depends on what you have, how you do it, how much you have to do, the time and the toll on your back. Goes back to someone's comment on the infeed, outfeed and the side extensions. I agree, it would be hard to balance an eight foot sheet when you have 7 feet of it hanging off a 27" table. At home, all my sheet work is on my Shop Saw... And it is cabinet quality. (Just an example.) And putting a 2x4 besides the cut? If you think of it as sacrificial and set your depth just below the sheet, it really doesn't matter if it cuts into the supports a little. In fact, if I want a cut with less tearout, I'll purposely position the support under the cut. 

If you look at my saw horses in the 2 pictures above... The tops themselves are not pristine. They have sacrificial tops. Sacrificial = disposable. Makes things easier on you in the long run not having to worry above not cutting them or drilling into them. That's what they "are" for.

So on whole "versus" question? I think that's funny. You can argue that with many tools. You could do the same things, many ways and get to that end point. I think with this "versus" question when talking about sheet breakdown, it is so very close. You just need to know how to use the tools you have and make it work. I'm still both ways. For me, I have skills with my tools and use whatever is going to do the job in the least amount of time, least wear and tear on my back and get the quality I need.

If you are looking to get a high cabinet quality result with a smooth cut edge and very little tearout... A circular saw with finish blades in 7 1/4 inch sizes is not there yet with the quality of arbors and blades... A Festool and access to finish quality metric blades is better and comes close, but... It's still a fine 10" blade on a quality table saw. For me, 12" blades still have too much flex for that and you go backwards again. But on those... I still breakdown by rough-cutting oversized (no matter what method) and then cut to finished size.

Just sharing... (on both sides of that.) When you are "setup" with a quality tool that you know how to use, things are easy and fast.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"After too many years, 2 broken backs and a broken neck..."
Aha! _Now_ your avatar makes sense... 
When the horse said "GEDOFFAME!" you should have listened!


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