# Choosing Woodworking Equipment,Tools & Machinery



## Admin (Feb 13, 2012)

Often I see people within woodworking communities disagreeing on which brands of woodworking equipment , tools and machinery to use. 

It made me wonder how people new to woodworking ever decide. 

How do YOU choose which brands or models to purchase? 

Do you trust online reviews? Ask your friends?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cricket said:


> Often I see people within woodworking communities disagreeing on which brands of woodworking equipment , tools and machinery to use.
> 
> It made me wonder how people new to woodworking ever decide.
> How do YOU choose which brands or models to purchase?
> Do you trust online reviews? Ask your friends?


1st and most important, look to the company...
evaluate their CS and will they step up to the plate should there be issues...
see if they have a planned obsolesce program in force... 
what will the company and their product do for me...
try to figure out if they will respect me in the morning...

no sense in buying something that can't be fixed a few years later...

next the product...
quality..
will it have a long productive life...
will it do more than I need it to....
is it a good value...
will it protect my bottom line...
will it go the extra mile...
will it go obsolete or become disposable in short order... 

tools that don't cut the mustard, suffer down time, hurt production and the bottom line need to left on the store shelf...

Online reviews...
not too much...
read a few too many that my VOE said other wise...
I prefer to use and abuse different brands and evaluate them myself and I pay attention at large job sites as to who has what and what, if any, issues they are having......

the testers should eval a tool and then put it in production mode for a few years and then do another eval..


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Cricket said:


> Often I see people within woodworking communities disagreeing on which brands of woodworking equipment , tools and machinery to use.
> 
> It made me wonder how people new to woodworking ever decide.
> 
> ...


Being a Newbie these days I would be totally confused. There is so much good stuff out there it would be hard to decide. And a newbie hasn't had the experience doing woodworking so that compounds things by not fully realizing the correct steps required to build things.

Being a veteran woodworker , I have no problem by knowing what I want a tool to do,and reading the specs and reviews and comparing prices and then making the decision.

It would like me buying a computer and software to do things cool.
I would not have any idea where to start.

Herb


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Not much to add to what @Stick486 said

Agree with the statement that their is some disagreement on forums as to what might be best, or at least what people like, but I've always taken that with a grain of salt; personal likes and dislikes don't mean much.

I watch a few do it shows and realizing that there are sponsors to the shows, I pay attention to what the professionals use.

Lastly, I have had a membership with Consumer Reports (hope I can say that) for quite a few years, and use the service to check their tests and reports when I'm about to make a substantial purchase.


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

Just ask Stick or Harry. How could you go wrong?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I get press releases from many of the tool companies and I talk on a regular basis to others. This is a great way to get information on new products which I usually share on the forums. IE.. routerforums was the first to announce the plunge base for the Bosch Colt routers... 9 months before they were released. I was able to get one of the prototype bases and present a review a couple weeks before the release.

A couple of the local forum members come by and test tools with me to provide differing views. With the input of other forum members we give an accurate view of a tools quality and value. This makes the forums one of the best places to get good advice. The best advice is still to get a tool in your hands and check it out yourself before dropping your hard earned money.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I like to read professional tool reviews, not so much the ones from average Joes. The reviews will tell you about things like is it powerful enough, how it handles, how easy and accurate to adjust, does it do it's intended job well, etc. 

What any review won't tell you is how long it's going to last and that is a biggie. I'm not a big fan of buying new models of tools. I would rather wait a year or two and see what kind of reviews it's getting then. You can often see how a tool is rating by googling it and adding "reviews". Repair shops are another place to find out. Ask which tools they see a lot of and which ones they don't see. Of you can always ask here on the forum too.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Herb pointed out..."There is so much good stuff out there it would be hard to decide."

And there's the winning ticket. There (likely) isn't one best choice for everyone.
For most folks $500+/- is the tipping point where making the _really_ wrong choice will hurt like Hell.
Less than that and I can suck it up and get on with things, over that and I'd be _really_ depressed... 
For a router purchase, going in for cheap is a really bad idea; unhappiness to follow. Something that is subject to the stresses that a router encounters needs stringent Engineering not cost accounting overseeing the design process.
(_I don't care what anyone says, sintered metal bearings were invented by the Devil ...  _ They're a deal breaker for me!)


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@DaninVan...

''sintered metal bearings''...
been a while since I heard bushings called that...

and don't fret Dan...
I won't let spell check change DaninVan to Darwinian..


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I agree with all of the above, especially Charles about not buying the newest thing out there. A lot of my tools have been following me around for 30,40 even 50 years and I want what I buy today to be high quality durable productive tools. I'm not one to buy what I can make so lots of things get put together here at home. Buy quality once buy for life. Buy junk buy again and again.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Cricket...
that is one squared away picture...


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

*Tool Obsolescence*



Stick486 said:


> 1st and most important, look to the company...
> evaluate their CS and will they step up to the plate should there be issues...
> see if they have a planned obsolesce program in force...
> what will the company and their product do for me...
> ...


Your comment about planned obsolescence caught my attention as I have that problem with a tool that I have had for years and the model and replacement parts are no longer available. How do you find out information concerning planned obsolescence?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JIMMIEM said:


> Your comment about planned obsolescence caught my attention as I have that problem with a tool that I have had for years and the model and replacement parts are no longer available. How do you find out information concerning planned obsolescence?


pay attention to what tools people are looking for repair parts for that are pretty much unobtainable... 
there are a lot of forums out there w/ many threads devoted to this one subject...
also what issues/failures people are having w/ their tools... 
when many are having the same issues it's time to take notice...
ie.. Craftsman, Delta, (new) PC, Rockwell, and etc...

what tool are you having problems with???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
> The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


I never thought of that , good catch Dan


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Stick,
I have a 10" Delta Miter Saw and the plastic handle cracked. Part is no longer available. It's a really good tool. I have the handle held on with a few rubber bunji (sp) cords. I did find a tool place that has the handle but I would have to buy the entire motor assembly. I was going to try some epoxy when I have some free time. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

I find it very hard to buy tools these days. Tools used to be built to compete on quality and how well they perform a task. Now it's all about the price. And that has been set by the buyer. So the manufacturers are giving us exactly what we want. Cheap tools. Even my beloved Porter Cable has been whoring out their tried and true routers to the lowest price they can put on it. Which can't be done without making a cheaper product. 

Few of the tools are built the way they used to be. My second favorite tool the Uniaw has gone through its own stripping process. 

So when I choose a tool I look for an older model and hope its in good shape. Fortunatly I don't need any tools at this stage of my woodworking. I've had the Unisaw for almost 30 years. Same with my PC 690s. 

Al


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
> The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


yup...
good catch....


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

JIMMIEM said:


> Stick,
> I have a 10" Delta Miter Saw and the plastic handle cracked. Part is no longer available. It's a really good tool. I have the handle held on with a few rubber bunji (sp) cords. I did find a tool place that has the handle but I would have to buy the entire motor assembly. I was going to try some epoxy when I have some free time. Any thoughts or suggestions?


There is a product called Plastaid. It will weld plastic parts. Mix a thin solution and use it to mate the parts in the cracks. Then mix a thick solution and use it on the inside. It works on almost all plastic except the plastic that has a Fiberglas base.

Al


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

JIMMIEM said:


> Stick,
> I have a 10" Delta Miter Saw and the plastic handle cracked. Part is no longer available. It's a really good tool. I have the handle held on with a few rubber bunji (sp) cords. I did find a tool place that has the handle but I would have to buy the entire motor assembly. I was going to try some epoxy when I have some free time. Any thoughts or suggestions?


that's a common ailment w/ that saw...

Loctite Plastics Bonding System from Loctite Adhesives


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Al B Thayer said:


> I find it very hard to buy tools these days. Tools used to be built to compete on quality and how well they perform a task. Now it's all about the price. And that has been set by the buyer. So the manufacturers are giving us exactly what we want. Cheap tools. Even my beloved Porter Cable has been whoring out their tried and true routers to the lowest price they can put on it. Which can't be done without making a cheaper product.
> 
> Few of the tools are built the way they used to be. My second favorite tool the Uniaw has gone through its own stripping process.
> 
> ...


totally agree...
my uni's are circa lat 40's and the PC's are late 80's...
maybe you should consider Bosch in the future... they still appreciate us....


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm a labour only subcontractor and work on site with quite a few other people. Consequently we all get to have a go with each others tools to some extent.

For instance, as a carpenter I'm usually paired up with another carpenter. Might go to a different site and I'll be paired up with a different one.
I get a fair amount of tools out of the van to do a job but with the powertools I might get my plungesaw out and the other person might get his jigsaw out to use for the day, no point in doubling up on tools we get out of our respective vans.

He (or she as I've worked with women as well) gets to have a go with my plungesaw and I get to try their jigsaw out. Sort of a two way reviewing thing going on.

If you work in that kind of environment before long you have had a good go with pretty much every tool around and *there's no single manufacturer that produces the best of everything*. Most of them have their value DIY range.
My tools are an eclectic mix of Veritas, Stanley, Estwing, Rabone, Fisco, De-Walt, quite a few Hitachi's, Metabo, Festool, Paslode and loads more.

I don't often go into a purchase thinking what can I buy from a particular manufacturer, I want a tool and see whats best the that I can afford.

Nowadays with a few companies producing more and better cordless tools I can see me picking the manufacturer with the best overall line up that use the same battery platform.


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## Admin (Feb 13, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
> The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


Next time I am going to ask one of you to photograph your shop for me so that I can use some "real life" pictures. :grin:


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Cricket said:


> Next time I am going to ask one of you to photograph your shop for me so that I can use some "real life" pictures. :grin:


It will take awhile to clean mine up, thanks for the warning.

Herb


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## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
> The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


Laying the plane on the side is debatable. By laying the plane on the side you expose the blade to contact with other tools. In the first link notice the plane makers planes are sitting on their soles. The second link explains why your shop teachers insisted on laying the plane on the side.

Plane maker

Paul sellers


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

RainMan1 said:


> I never thought of that , good catch Dan





DaninVan said:


> I love that big photo....but...I had it drilled into me, "Never put a plane down on its sole!" _They're supposed to be lain down on their sides_
> The folks that did the photo shoot aren't woodworkers; but they _are_ good photographers.


I was always taught to lay a plane down on its side as well - still do, and never questioned the practice - but your comment made me think about; the plane is working wood, so where's the issue if you lay a plane down on its sole, on wood. Just sayin'


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

So bottom line, lay a smallish piece of carpeting on your work area and place your planes vertically on that, and that only(?)...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

boogalee said:


> Laying the plane on the side is debatable. By laying the plane on the side you expose the blade to contact with other tools. In the first link notice the plane makers planes are sitting on their soles. The second link explains why your shop teachers insisted on laying the plane on the side.
> 
> Plane maker
> 
> Paul sellers


By the time I completed my post, you had posted the two links - that article from Paul Sellers makes a lot of sense.

Vince


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

If you work in that kind of environment before long you have had a good go with pretty much every tool around and *there's no single manufacturer that produces the best of everything*. Most of them have their value DIY range.
[/QUOTE]

Scott that reminds me of the time a labour picked a wide chisel out of a finish carpenters box and was caught cleaning concrete off boards.
You can just imagine the rest of the story.

Herb


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> Scott that reminds me of the time a labour picked a wide chisel out of a finish carpenters box and was caught cleaning concrete off boards.
> You can just imagine the rest of the story.
> 
> Herb


I don't usually leave my tools on site when I'm not there for pretty much that reason, the worst offenders are the formen.
They might be working the weekend when the tradesmans not there and the labourer needs a particular tool, they figure that the carpenter is likely to have it and then they lend the labourer that tool.
Hell, it was never their tool to lend but that doesn't seem to matter.
The labourer doesn't care because he never paid for it and it gets damaged or lost. Then carpenter has a sense of humour failure because he *did* pay for it.

If I _absolutely have to_ leave my tools on site I lock them up in a box in the site container/shed, not a massive lock but that changes the person from being an enthusiastic borrower to an outright thief if they break that cheapo lock.

Realistically I avoid leaving tools on site if at all possible as it keeps me happier and the responsibility for my tools is just on my shoulders, I'm good with that bit.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I was taught a long time ago you never stand a plane up right. During a recent demo by Rob Corson to our woodworkers group he stood his planes on the bench upright. When questioned about it he said that it was safer on the blade because laying down the corners of the blade can be damaged by the other tools on the bench, and that is the most critical part of the blade. 
I remember when the Lee Neilson rep dis a demo for us that he did the same thing set the plane upright. 
These are two guys that make a living by the plane ,so I would assume they know what they speak.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Now for the _other_ side of the argument. These guys are talking about working in delightful pristine woodworking shops, not jobsites where very horizontal surface is contaminated with grit, or in the finishing stage with expensive surfaces in process.
In the first case, laying your plane down on a plank that everybody has walked on, cut cement board on, cut tile on, is guaranteed to be a really bad idea. In the latter phase of the project placing it blade down on a hardwood mantel top, laminate counter top, or polished marble surface, is going to cost somebody big bucks...
I'll take my chances with the preventable bump with another tool.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

HAHAHAHA you are right on ,Dan. I guess this should just be filed under Common Sense. Setting a plane upright on a concrete floor is not a good idea. LOL

Herb


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I was taught as most others to lay a plane on its side. But since I work alone under no pressure to hurry up production I have a magnet of the front end of each plane to protect the iron when not in use. When I lay it aside I just slip the magnet back on it and it is ready to grab, slip the magnet off and go to work. Works for me. I like the carpet idea. I have a small wooden box with carpet in the bottom so if set my sander down before it stops. Might try that with a plane.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Heh...Richard, if you could find a chunk of 1970's kitchen carpeting (offcut) you'd never misplace your planes!!


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Read reviews from several vendors. And word of mouth.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Now for the _other_ side of the argument. These guys are talking about working in delightful pristine woodworking shops, not jobsites where very horizontal surface is contaminated with grit, or in the finishing stage with expensive surfaces in process.
> In the first case, laying your plane down on a plank that everybody has walked on, cut cement board on, cut tile on, is guaranteed to be a really bad idea. In the latter phase of the project placing it blade down on a hardwood mantel top, laminate counter top, or polished marble surface, is going to cost somebody big bucks...
> I'll take my chances with the preventable bump with another tool.


That^
I put mine down on its side for all of those reasons.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

On their side. Been doing this since 1969 when my shop teacher taught us how to use a plane. bumping the blade with another tool would be a very low percentage shot. Laying it on the blade is a sure shot.

But back to the question posed. How do you guys pick your tools? I really would like to know. I find the whole process a real bummer. Where have all the quality tools gone? I understand the sale of cheap crappy tools, but did they have to drop the good ones?

Al


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> On their side. Been doing this since 1969 when my shop teacher taught us how to use a plane. bumping the blade with another tool would be a very low percentage shot. Laying it on the blade is a sure shot.


Again that^. I'm guessing that many of you have you're own workshop?

You guys with your own workshop where either nobody else touches things or everyone else is there taught the same as you might be OK but...

For this not damaging freshly sharpened plane irons thing to work properly its got to be the same across the board. Everyone doing the same _right_ thing.
If I put my plane down on its sole, so do the labourers at work when they move it from wherever safe place I put it and down to the concrete floor when they tidy up. Great cheers...

Now I might well know that when I put it on its sole I've retracted its iron, do the labourers know that?

THATS why the best way is to drum into people to put it on its side.
Mixed messages don't get through to as many people.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Better yet, flog them if they touch your planes!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

..


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Just giving a 'heads up', Stick?


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## Murtu01 (Mar 9, 2014)

*My two cents worth:*

Search for reviews both good and bad

Kind of cautioned by the saying: Cheap and nasty. There's a reason why a TATA is cheaper than a Mercedes Benz !!!!

More expensive tools are generally the better quality, more accurate and last a heck of a lot longer.

I now buy only well known brands and very skeptical about unknown brands and their products.

Well known brands generally have a top class service and parts departments.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

*I agree but.......*



Murtu01 said:


> *My two cents worth:*
> 
> Search for reviews both good and bad
> 
> ...



Spending more will get you a better tool. I haven't found any argument against this. But there is a limit. The European market can't compete anywhere close on price to us in the US like the Asian market. And I'm not referencing the really cheap tools made there. (which is directly related to the average tool buying guy here in the US)

Anything we buy in Europe has an extra cost on it that has nothing to do with the quality of the tool. Which is the very reason they don't sell cheap tools.

I just wish the well made tools wouldn't be dumbed down by the price shoppers.

Al


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## ibisnest (Sep 20, 2012)

I had all my power tools stolen years ago. I went to a local specialist store and mentioned my sorry story. I got the best deal on the best range of Hitachi tools - and engraved my name on all of them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Robert; welcome!
You've got sticky fingered types in Oz?! 
Man, is nowhere safe?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Murtu01 said:


> *My two cents worth:*
> 
> Search for reviews both good and bad
> 
> ...


Geez Rudi , you actually know what a tenth anniversary trans am is ?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ibisnest said:


> I had all my power tools stolen years ago. I went to a local specialist store and mentioned my sorry story. I got the best deal on the best range of Hitachi tools - and engraved my name on all of them.


Welcome to the forum Robert. Sorry to hear about your tools . I'd be devastated if it happened to me . Wish my laser was up and running as I'd be engraving my name on all mine


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Welcome to the forum Robert.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> Spending more will get you a better tool. I haven't found any argument against this. But there is a limit. The European market can't compete anywhere close on price to us in the US like the Asian market. And I'm not referencing the really cheap tools made there. (which is directly related to the average tool buying guy here in the US)
> 
> Anything we buy in Europe has an extra cost on it that has nothing to do with the quality of the tool. Which is the very reason they don't sell cheap tools.
> 
> ...


You cant beat these tools for top of the line.

Home page - Bridge City Tool Works

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

You need to give a cardiac warning with links like that, Herb... :O 
(Be still, my beating heart!)


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## 163481 (Jul 8, 2015)

When I was a newbie I bought what was affordably available. I started with a refurb Delta miter saw from Harbor Freight. I didn't know at the time that HF was a place to avoid so I used it and cut many miters with it. The early ones didn't fit exactly right and I soon discovered that it was out of adjustment and I had to correct that. Next was an old Craftsman table saw. I didn't know that it was a piece of junk and the fence was unusable so I used it and cut a lot of wood with it. I soon learned that it takes tools capable of making consistently straight and square cuts to do good work. Using what I learned from Norm, I aligned the blade with the miter slot and replaced the fence with an aftermarket sorta T-square fence. It is capable of good results so long as I constantly pay attention to the alignment. The TS is still a piece of junk but I've done a lot of good work with it. Fast forward a few years...I picked up a table top drill press that was WAY out of adjustment for a good price. By that time I had learned much more about woodworking machinery and bought it anyhow. I took the time to do the adjustments and made a table for it. It reliably does what I need it to do.

Long story short: In the beginning I had no idea what I was doing but did it anyhow and learned. By working around the shortcomings of my tools I was able to do reasonable work. Over time I learned to evaluate machinery and now I can do...not exactly New Yankee Workshop quality work...but close enough. The result of what I learned over the years permitted me to make myself a router table that would rival most any high end offering out there in terms of functionality. It doesn't look as pretty but that wasn't my objective.

I'd bet the story is similar for the hobbyists on this forum. At first I had no way to evaluate different brands or types of tools. I had to use what I could afford. Of course I realize that those who were/are in the trades didn't/don't have time for that kind of learning process but then you had mentors along the way to help you out. You didn't have to figure it out for yourselves.


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