# In need of a tongue and groove bit set...



## BigCountry (Dec 29, 2011)

I watched Marc Sommerfeld's video on cabinetmaking and he uses his tongue and groove bit set for the cabinets. I noticed his set is about $109 on his site. Has anybody used his particular set? Are there better/more economical sets out there?

Thanks,

Keith


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I have his set and it's great but you can beat the high price by using a set you can get off ebay.
I have posted it many times see my uploads for links and info..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/11pc-1-2-Sh...799716088?pt=Routers_Bits&hash=item20c8512af8

So the bottom line is why not get a set that will do more than one size..we all are using 1/4" plywood more and more this set will let you cut the boards just right for the smaller 1/4" (5mm) plywood..that's a real plus for the eBay set.
=


BigCountry said:


> I watched Marc Sommerfeld's video on cabinetmaking and he uses his tongue and groove bit set for the cabinets. I noticed his set is about $109 on his site. Has anybody used his particular set? Are there better/more economical sets out there?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Keith


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Better is a difficult call Keith. If you are talking about rail and stile bits for raised panel doors Marc now has a neat set with a patent pending design. The next issue of Wood magazine gives them a very good review. These bits are custom made to Marc's specifications with titanium in the blend. Look close and you will see the two T shaped pieces of carbide which reduces tear out.


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## allbarknobite (Sep 15, 2011)

*MLCS Katana 17840 is a sharp T & G bit set*



BigCountry said:


> Are there better/more economical sets out there?
> Keith


HI Keith,
You might check out the Katana router bit (#17840-$55.00) from MLCS woodworking.
The double 1/4" cutter makes the tongue, and the single 1/4" slot cutter cuts the groove. I changed out the supplied bearings to reduce the T & G to 3/8" instead for the 1/2" depth, and installed them in two separate router tables to increase my work flow. The Katana bits were very sharp with minimal tear-out.
Mark


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

My home depot had the Freud ones they stock on sale for about 1/2 what they were before, so i picked one up. IIRC, they were about $17 or so. If you would like, I can check if they have any more and pick one up for you and send it to you.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> My home depot had the Freud ones they stock on sale for about 1/2 what they were before, so i picked one up. IIRC, they were about $17 or so. If you would like, I can check if they have any more and pick one up for you and send it to you.


Chris-

At Home depot. A "tongue and groove set" or a "slot cutter set"?


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

It is an adjustable tongue and groove set. Without going out to the garage and looking at it (I am at work), I think it is this set:

3/8 in. Carbide Adjustable Tongue and Groove Router Bit Set-DR99036 at The Home Depot

And I may have misspoken about the price. They have had many deep discounts on their bits, and this was one of them. But since this one retails for $84, it was probably more in the $35 range. I know I didn't spend more than $40 for any one item.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Straight bit: to waste equal rabbets on both faces of the work = a centered tongue.
A 3/4" CD x 1" L cutter will put a 1/3 thickness tongue on a stick from 1/4" to >2.5" thick.
Slotters can yield essentially any slot width (your groove) from .060 to >1/2" also without a depth change.
Expense: Maybe $25 at WMC.


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## Maroonram (Jul 10, 2012)

*Sommerfeld Router Bits*

I don't have his tongue and groove set, but I do have his locked miter set and it is outstanding.

You're going to get what you pay for; better quality steel; better quality carbon; calibration, and etc. with the higher end bits and they will last much longer.

Freud, Whiteside and CMT are other high end bits. Rockler and Woodcraft both carry their house brand bits and the are both good and reasonably priced, but not as good as the high end bits.


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## Tripp1 (Nov 1, 2009)

Not sure how much material you will be cutting with it, but I used the Freud setup on about 20 pressure treated 1x4's to make some outdoor porch flooring.
As long as it set up properly, they really make a smooth finish cut.
Still plenty sharp for the next 20 boards!!
The ability to either fine tune it to match other material you are working with, or making you own custom sizes is a nice feature.


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

BigCountry said:


> I watched Marc Sommerfeld's video on cabinetmaking and he uses his tongue and groove bit set for the cabinets.


In looking at different tongue and groove bits, it appears the Sommerfeld tongue and groove bits take more off of one side like it is offset. Others seem to make the cut for the tongue in the center of the board. 
Is this something that adjustable sets offer or is it specific to the Sommerfeld bits?

Thanks!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Justin, you will find many ways to complete any project and many schools of thought on which is the best way. The great thing about the forums is we try to present them all so you can decide which is right for you. Marc has his reasons for the offset he uses and Pat is 100% correct when he mentioned using a 1" bit to cut the tongues. Tough choices, eh?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Marc has both types.they can be used in both ways.(offset or dead center)

1/2" Shank Tongue & Groove Cutters

3-Pc Tongue & Groove Cabinetmaking Set


11pc 1 2" Shank Slot Tongue Groove Router Bit Set | eBay
==



justinhillpac said:


> In looking at different tongue and groove bits, it appears the Sommerfeld tongue and groove bits take more off of one side like it is offset. Others seem to make the cut for the tongue in the center of the board.
> Is this something that adjustable sets offer or is it specific to the Sommerfeld bits?
> 
> Thanks!


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

Mike said:


> Marc has his reasons for the offset he uses and Pat is 100% correct when he mentioned using a 1" bit to cut the tongues.


Would you mind pointing me in the direction to find out Marc's reasons, or give a quick thought if you didn't mind.

Also, I'm not quite sure what Pat meant. Is he saying to just use a 3/4" cutting diameter x 1" length straight bit to cut the tongue and a slotter bit to cut the groove (buying the size that you need)?

Thanks again!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Justin, it is always best straight from the horses mouth. I will call Marc and ask him to write a response to your question.

Pat uses different methods when routing tenons. Instead of spending the money for tongue and groove bits which are designed to be used on standard lumber a straight bit which is less expensive and easier to sharpen is used. This requires doing the math to figure out how much to remove from each side of the board. The neat thing about this method is you can use any tenon thickness you want and center or offset the tenon.

Both ways have advantages. Slot cutters can be used on through mortises or you can use a straight bit. Many choices.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

The short would be

"face frames and the easy way to build cabinets"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AejTGYLN6c
==


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. Bj, That is the video that made me curious to ask this question. I do see the positives of each. 

Mike, I think it would be beneficial to go the route that Pat uses as you outlined. You would have many more options for thickness of each piece and not be limited to any specific bit or size of wood. 

I suppose it is all in what you wanted to do. Doing Pat's method, I feel it would give you more options and still give you the ability to offset the tongue as you described if needed. Seems like more time would be involved in setup, but that is a tradeoff to being able to accomodate different sizes of wood and depths.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Marc likes to use the pocket hole way for most of his face frames and cabinets once you offset the cutter you will have more meat(stock) for the screws to hold on to the parts...Once I started to use his way it's the only way I do it now...the cabinet parts are always dead on... very little sanding needed the norm..

==



justinhillpac said:


> Thanks for the replies. Bj, That is the video that made me curious to ask this question. I do see the positives of each.
> 
> Mike, I think it would be beneficial to go the route that Pat uses as you outlined. You would have many more options for thickness of each piece and not be limited to any specific bit or size of wood.
> 
> I suppose it is all in what you wanted to do. Doing Pat's method, I feel it would give you more options and still give you the ability to offset the tongue as you described if needed. Seems like more time would be involved in setup, but that is a tradeoff to being able to accomodate different sizes of wood and depths.


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

bobj3 said:


> ebay.com/itm/11pc-1-2-Shank-Slot-Tongue-Groove-Router-Bit-Set
> ==


Have you used this option? If so, just wondering your opinion. It seems you could orient the cutters to get the offset if desired.


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

BJ, I just ordered the Sommerfeld cabinet bit set. I was contemplating other options but I plan on making some cabinets for our laundry room and figured I would stick with his video instructions as I have never done cabinets before. 

Thanks everyone for the help!


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

justinhillpac said:


> In looking at different tongue and groove bits, it appears the Sommerfeld tongue and groove bits take more off of one side like it is offset. Others seem to make the cut for the tongue in the center of the board.
> Is this something that adjustable sets offer or is it specific to the Sommerfeld bits?
> 
> Thanks!


Hi Justin.
I use many of the Sommerfeld sets. For me they are worth the cost for the quality. The reason the parts are machined with an offset is you can favor one side or the other just by flipping the case parts (ply) over depending how it is attached to the face frame without changing the setup. 

For an outside exposed corner you can flush the case with the outside corner of the face frame. For an end cabinet against a wall or next to another cabinet (side not showing) you can favor the opening to give room to scribe to wall. 

For an opening that has drawers I like to install flush to the opening with the Ply so there is no need to build out for the drawer slides. All done without changing the setup on the bit. You just decide which side is down when you machine the case parts.

As an example this cabinet was assembled with the four partitions assembled flush to the drawer openings which helps with mounting drawer slides. This also helps fit this type of cabinet in between the walls. The only part that touches the side walls is the face frame.


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## justinhillpac (May 9, 2013)

Thanks James!


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## BigKid (Mar 22, 2014)

I too am looking to buy a new tongue and groove set. I have a Yonico set, but you have to set the height for each bit. Sommerfeld boasts that once the router height is set on one, all you need to do switch the bit and you will be flush. Is that right? Do that cheaper 11pc set do the same thing?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum.

Are you asking about a Summerfeld set?


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## BigKid (Mar 22, 2014)

jw2170 said:


> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> Are you asking about a Summerfeld set?


Yes well, I thought that setting the height once seemed important to get jobs flush. I was wonder if the cheap 11 piece set did the same thing.


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## Salty Dawg (Jan 24, 2014)

I just got the Summerfeld t/g set, been trying it out on scraps so far & have switched bits back & forth to see if they still line up flush each time & so far so good, just remember, the router stays locked after the first bit setup & not moved again so you will have to get an offset wrench to change the bits.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

BigKid said:


> Yes well, I thought that setting the height once seemed important to get jobs flush. I was wonder if the cheap 11 piece set did the same thing.



The reason I asked was. I checked the Summerfeld site before I asked and just checked again, and I cannot see "cheap 11 piece set".....?

I must be missing something..


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## berry (Oct 17, 2005)

I purchased Sommerfelds T&G set and video on Cabinet Making some years ago and I've been very happy with the performance of the set. His instructions were very useful to me when I made our kitchen cabinets a few years ago. 

I don't know about the quality of other sets but I try to purchase from businesses that provide more that just a product, like Sommerfeld does, IMHO.


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## BigKid (Mar 22, 2014)

jw2170 said:


> The reason I asked was. I checked the Summerfeld site before I asked and just checked again, and I cannot see "cheap 11 piece set".....?
> 
> I must be missing something..


Oh sorry, no. It was one that someone posted in the thread from ebay. Looks like I'll save up for the Sommerfeld one. I did write to them for a postage quote to Australia, but they didn't get back to me, so I was a little upset with them for that.


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## BigKid (Mar 22, 2014)

I wrote to Sommerfeld tools again, but, like before, they just are not answering emails. It’s very frustrating. I was going to ask them if their tongue and groove cabinetmaking set{Product Code: 03004S} was the same as their 3 piece tongue and groove cabinetmaking set, only without the flush trim bit. I don’t need the flush trimmer and I just wanted to make sure that if I set the router height, the bits will line up with each outer after changing them, like on the 3 piece set.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

With Sommerfeld's offset tongue and groove set both bits are made to work with each other and their shaft lengths are correct to allow changing the bits without changing the router height. In fact, all of Marc's paired router bit sets are designed this way. He teaches that you should put a grommet or an O-ring behind the router collet so you can bottom out his router bits without causing the "stuck router bit" problem" that you can run into if you bottom out a router bit in a router collet without the rubber cushion. Using the grommet or O-ring gives you a firm, but repeatable and flexible stop that allows you to bottom out router bits in your router collet. This makes it possible to use router bits with matched shaft lengths so the router height does not have to change when switching between these router bits.

Charley


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## BigKid (Mar 22, 2014)

Well, I’ve solved my problem. I had bought a Yonico tongue and groove set a while ago but I didn’t like the way I had to re-adjust the router table height when changing bits. So I recently added some of the shim/washers to the groove bit to adjust the height of the cutter. Now, I only need to set the height once to the table and both the tongue and groove bits line up for a flush finished every time. You can buy Yonico bits from ebay as well as precisionbits.com They are cheap in price, but are not junk.
I also bought a larger bearing set from them to shorten the tongue and groove cuts. My only gripe so far about Yonico bits, and I have bought a few during the last 6 months, is that at the moment, they do not have setup blocks, but the company has stated that they are looking into it.


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