# Simple drawer



## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

Would a drawer like the one shown be strong if glued and nailed?

It is pretty simple and I know it would not be as strong as a dovetailed joint. But if made out of 1/2 inch Baltic Birch, which is stable, I wonder with our modern glues, if this wouldn't last a long time.

I would buy a drawer lock bit, but I have heard that there is tear out issues.

Thanks

Steve Bolton


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Steve,

as someone with very little experience, dont you think more drawers are destroyed by overloading (100lbs. lol)than joints failing. i think that larger drawers are the most at risk because of holding more weight. just the view of a inexperienced wannabe,lol


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

I actually don't know, but I know glue is very good these days. I suppose it would be reinforced with a dowel.

SB


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

how big is the drawer youre thinking ob building? at least my retoric will keep bumping your post up til someone can answer more definitively. dam, i didnt think i was gonna be able to spell that when i got about half way through!


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Steve
Drawer design will work fine.
Type of wood, size & type of glue determine the strength.
Plywood is strong & tougher to glue well but works fine if you have smooth joints. 
I don't use nails if glueing, clamp until dry. Nails with glue; nails are only to hold it till the glue dries. (was taught that in shop class many years ago & with better glue now, I don't use nails in drawers) Screws if anything, they will hold the joint tighter until the glue dries and be stronger if the glue joint fails.
Wood movement will also have an effect, I've learned to coat all sides equally with what ever finish you use so the wood moves evenly from both sides.
Yes will work fine, I have some with this simple design that have ben in use for 30 + years & the glue today is better(Just don't use them as a step stool)


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

Probably 8 inches high and 20 inches deep. I would put a drawer slide on it, which might also help the drawer last a long time.

SB


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

PS
nails & screw can split the plywood, drill pilot holes in the plywood & try to hit the center ply


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

Rhetoric 

You don't need a drawer lock bit, you can do a simple drawer joint with just a 1/4" straight cutter or a table saw, even without a dado set. Just takes more passes.

Tounge and rabbit joint.

Or you can use biscuits and cut the slots with a slot cutter or a biscuit cutter.

Or dovetails

Or boxjoint

Or, or, or...

It does sort of depend on how big and how much weight the drawer is expected to hold. Whatever joint you choose, remember to think about how forces are going to act on the drawer. Not just gravity, but what happens when the drawer is full and somebody yanks on the pull? You want your joint to be oriented to counter act that force and also the force as all the junk goes sailing to the back of the drawer (thanks for that Mr. Newton).


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi SB

May I suggest ,, see below,,,most drawers can't take the pulling or pushing of the user ,,,in and out,,the glue and nails will work just fine but it needs to use the wood (joint) in the right way 

========== ********
Just a note for Norm,, ,,,,you ask what the jig is for, it's just a snapshot that slipped in the group,,it's a jig to make door panels on the table saw... it has nothing to do with the simple box or the joints for them. 
I did add some more snapshots, to show how to make it and how to use it on the table saw..

I will say ,,using sliding dovetail joints ,,, no need for nails or screws,just a little bit of glue,, plus you don't see the joints the norm..the dovetail joint can be cut off the front part of the drawer once it's glued up so the drawer can side in all the way..  , it's best to cut off a little bit of it and use a trim bit to get it flush with the side of the drawer... 

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S Bolton said:


> Would a drawer like the one shown be strong if glued and nailed?
> 
> It is pretty simple and I know it would not be as strong as a dovetailed joint. But if made out of 1/2 inch Baltic Birch, which is stable, I wonder with our modern glues, if this wouldn't last a long time.
> 
> ...


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

BJ, when you indicate "cut off as needed" does that mean cutting the front so it is a flush drawer. I should not be, but I was a little confused by your drawing on that issue.

SB


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI SB

Right on ,, sometimes you want a over lay and sometimes you don't 

Over lays work the best with nails and glue 
the nails go in at a right angle to the joint, it's very hard to shear off a nail..when it's in both sides of the joint...you can hide them with the toe nail way..just lift some of the stock up with a small chisel then put the nail in place then put the stock back over the nail,and it's gone...out of site 


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S Bolton said:


> BJ, when you indicate "cut off as needed" does that mean cutting the front so it is a flush drawer. I should not be, but I was a little confused by your drawing on that issue.
> 
> SB


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## waynoe (Sep 29, 2004)

Steve
With todays glue it should work just fine. But why would you want to join the front that way? It can't be for athestics or you would have used dovetails. Why not make the whole drawer out of ply and attach the front with a couple of screws. IMO unless the drawer was very small (jewlery box) I would use dados at the back of the drawer rather that the rabits I feel this is a little stronger.
Wayne


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

Thanks BJ for you efforts here. Waynoe, I was going to make the whole drawer out of baltic birch. I would prefer not to see the screws.

Drawers would be be like the one shown, but bigger. I like the looks of this drawer.

Thanks for input. More welcome if it exists.

SB


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

FWIW, I'm of the opinion that the non-aesthetic aspects of drawer design should be tailored to the size of the drawer, how much weight will be in the drawer, and how the drawer will slide. In other words, what is the potential for yanking the front off the drawer when it resists movement?

Simple designs work well if the contents aren't too heavy, or if the drawer is on ball-bearing slides suited to the weight of the contents. Even plastic glides can help a large-ish drawer slide easier. 

On a large version of the design you posted, SB, doweling the edge joints on the front would add substantial strength, even with relatively small dowels, trimmed flush to the sides of the drawer. Whether that would actually be necessary would depend on what is in the drawer.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I like to use a locking rabbet joint for drawers. Very strong.


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## cbsjoez1935 (Mar 14, 2007)

A rose by any other name..etc..etc..

The joint shown by Mike is also known as a combination joint. Easy to make and you really can't go wrong in making it, if you are using baltic birch ply. I have tried this joint with pressure treated decking and common pine somewhat OK. The problem comes with cupping, which you should not have with ply (hopefully).

Joe Z.


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

I like that joint Mike makes. It is attractive and strong. I looked at the plans for a jig to do that and I think you had to use 3/4 wood.

SB


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

S Bolton said:


> I like that joint Mike makes. It is attractive and strong. I looked at the plans for a jig to do that and I think you had to use 3/4 wood.
> 
> SB


You use a bit 1/2 the thickness of the wood. 1/4" for 1/2" wood, 3/8" for 3/4" wood, 1" for 2" (  ) wood, and so on. I even did one with a 1/8" bit and 1/4" wood.
Yes, the jig is 3/4" MDF.


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

But Mike can you make the jig work with 1/2 baltic birch? If so, it is a great jig.

SB


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

I was at a professional cabinet shop yesterday and the owner uses pocket screws like show in 5/8 in baltic birch. I think we have been over this before, but it seems like that would be pretty strong.

SB


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

S Bolton said:


> But Mike can you make the jig work with 1/2 baltic birch? If so, it is a great jig.
> 
> SB


Yes, it will work with 1/2" BB. You have to be careful that the joints aren't too tight. The plys will split off if they are.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Steve

This just my 2 cents 

Pocket screws are great but not for drawers ,,,it's still just butt joint and using pocket holes screws is one step above staples/nails,,,and maybe a step down 

You need to think this one out all the way, if you are using 5/8" thick stock ( plywood ) you have only 1/2" of the sharp point of the screw holding the joint (about 1 1/2" threads ) in place until the glue sets up...almost all pocket screws have a drill point on them, you will need a bit more meat to hold the box together , it's like a hinge, it's not the screws that support the load it's the pocket the hinge is in that takes the load and the stress ..this is true for most wood joints..
The pocket screw is just a clamp and if it breaks/strips free the joint will fail..


So to say if you want the drawer to stand up for more than a time or two you need a good joint to take the stress ...the glues we have now days are great but once it drys out and the joint moves just a little the glue will fail .. I will say pocket holes screws will hold in real wood that's 3/4" thick but plywood is not great for drawers and pocket screws in a butt joint.

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S Bolton said:


> I was at a professional cabinet shop yesterday and the owner uses pocket screws like show in 5/8 in baltic birch. I think we have been over this before, but it seems like that would be pretty strong.
> 
> SB


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