# Router bits and exhaust system



## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

Hi All - Just joined - my first post. I'm finally setting up my workshop. I'll be doing mostly cabinet kind of things, I'm starting to get into some fine working. I'm planning a crib for my first grandson. I have a Bosch 4000 table saw and a Bosch 1617 router (plunge and table) on the way, along with Makita 18V driver/drill and hand tools. Now some questions: 
1. I need to buy a few bits. At least in theory, I prefer to buy fewer, but better quality tools - I figure that I don't have enough money to buy the same tool twice (or more). My immediate need (I think) is for a round over, rabbet and straight edge bits. Will the rabbet serve for mortises? Is there anything else that I am likely to find very useful? Recommendations for brands Tools are VERY expensive in Israel - have a chance for someone to bring over a few things for me now from the States.
2. Suggestions for a dust exhaust system. My workshop is small, so space is a consideration. I can get a 3000W 80 liter vacuum, but have been told that it will clog very easily. Better ideas?
Thanks for your help. I've already learned a lot browsing through the forum.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hank; welcome to the Forum! Or should I say 'Shalom'? 

There's been a lot of discussion here re dust control. The long and the short of it is, given some space and shekels, running a minimum of 4" ducting to a cyclone type lid on a garbage can, then to your dust collector, will give you the cleanest return air with the least amount of chips/dust in the dust collector bag.
Everything else is icing on the cake.
Until you get your system up and running, please try and wear a Type 95 dust mask at the very least. Wood dust and your lungs are not compatible. 
J. Phil Thien's Projects

Cheers
-Dan


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Hank, download the PDF manual to your PC for future reference from this site:
Whiteside Machine Company
Top quality, made in the USA and less money than other premium bits. You can order these from Woodcraft.com

The best way to keep your vacuum from clogging is to install one of these separator units between your router (or other tools) and your shop vac. The Oneida-Air Dust Deputy Deluxe can also be purchased from Woodcraft; the Clear Vue Cyclones CV06 (blue lid) you must buy direct. Both work but I prefer the CV06.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike; correct me if I'm wrong Hank, but importing into Israel is horrendously expensive. 
Also, there's the issue of compatibility with their electrical system, perhaps?
Seems to me I'd heard that Israel was drastically reducing their tarriff barriers; is that true, Hank?
What _is_ available, manufacturer wise?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Yeh...I thought it might be a problem!
Electrical Guide for the Tourist in Israel


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Hi Hank. Welcome to the forum.

A rebbating bit will not work for a mortise. You will need a straight or spiral cutting bit.

Dust collection is a necessity for a small shop. Note, I said 'DUST' collection, not chip collection.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Dan, Hank already has a vacuum. No electrical parts on the separators.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Yes the rebbating bit will work for a mortise but you will need to plug the slot in some places. you can use them just like a slot cutter...or can just glue in from stock,the great out doors works well for your dust collection system...the KISS way...

==


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> Yes the rebbating bit will work for a mortise but you will need to plug the slot in some places. you can use them just like a slot cutter...or can just glue in from stock,the great out doors works well for your dust collection system...the KISS way...
> 
> ==



Hi BJ,

I am confused. Are you talking about the mortise or the tenon.

Can you please show me how to cut a mortise with a rebbating bit?????

Mortise and tenon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Hank, welcome to the forum. Amana router bits are made in Israel and are top of the line. Maybe they are cheaper over there than here. The 1/4" radius round over is the most commonly used round over bit. If you change the bearing to a smaller diameter one it will make an edge profile.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike said:


> Dan, Hank already has a vacuum. No electrical parts on the separators.


Hi Mike; badly stated on my part...my apologies.
I don't think he bought the 3000w yet, but was looking for options. I brought that up because sometimes the o.p's point of origin isn't noticed...I've certainly done that myself. 

Hopefully Hank picks up his mail, and lets us know what's available over there(?).


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

Hank, If you cannot find dust collector components locally, you can make your own from standard PVC fittings. I looked at doing this myself but Rockler had their DustRight fittings on sales and it was less expensive to buy that kit. See the photos for details on the DustRight kit design. I use mine on a 15 gal (57L) fiber drum powered by a 1HP dust collector so I'm sure your shop vac could do the same job.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Availability is the issue Rich. Israel does not have but a fraction of what is available in the USA.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Did a bit of Googling...had my eyes opened!
http://www.ace.co.il/?catid={E79CAE46-40FB-4818-A7BF-FF1C01A96109}
http://www.export.gov.il/UploadFiles/11_2012/DIYIsrael.pdf

Venture capital, 2 1/2 times that of the US *bogglement*
Highest density of start up companies in the World (per capita)
Debt 79% of GDP, and falling (2012)
Canada 85% and rising...


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

thanks everybody for your help. Israel uses 220V current. US equipment can be used with a transformer. As I noted, tools here are very expensive - Bosch 1617 evspk $189 on Amazon, $700(!) here -I think/hope that this is an extremen example but you get the idea. Even adding in the cost of a 2500W transformer (about $230), still much cheaper - and I have the transformer for other tools that I may bring in. Shipping and taxes on importing is also expensive and not always available. So, the great suggestions for equipment in the States are not practical. Smaller items I can sometimes bring in as personal luggage. 
I will try to go the route of making a dust/chip collector - you've given me several good directions to go with. I have not bought a shop vac yet. I was warned off the 3000W vac (by an honest salesman) - too much noise + clogging. Question: will a 1000W vac, with a hose that is probably 40mm (1.7") - be powerful enough to use with the DIY dust collectors that you have mentioned?


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

thanks everybody for your help. Israel uses 220V current. US equipment can be used with a transformer. As I noted, tools here are very expensive - Bosch 1617 evspk $189 on Amazon, $700(!) here -I think/hope that this is an extremen example but you get the idea. Even adding in the cost of a 2500W transformer (about $230), still much cheaper - and I have the transformer for other tools that I may bring in. Shipping and taxes on importing is also expensive and not always available. So, the great suggestions for equipment in the States are not practical. Smaller items I can sometimes bring in as personal luggage. 
I will try to go the route of making a dust/chip collector - you've given me several good directions to go with. I have not bought a shop vac yet. I was warned off the 3000W vac (by an honest salesman) - too much noise + clogging. Question: will a 1000W vac, with a hose that is probably 40mm (1.7") - be powerful enough to use with the DIY dust collectors that you have mentioned?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hank; isn't the 50Hz, as opposed to the N. American 60Hz, an issue? Especially with electronic components like speed control and soft start?
With dust/chip collection the larger the ducting the better. Air volume is hugely important. Could you put a sound deadening enclosure around the 3000W one?
Not block it off obviously but maybe a fibreglass blanket inside a 1/2" plywood box with a baffle vent? Or exhaust it outside?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

No Dan, htz is not an issue with most power tools. Dust collection depends on the vacuum type as to which diameter hose will perform the best.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mike said:


> No Dan, htz is not an issue with most power tools. Dust collection depends on the vacuum type as to which diameter hose will perform the best.


I was actually referring to Hank's router(s), Mike, not the vacuum m/c on the Hz issue.
If the vacuum is being used to pull air from the _dust collector_, volume rather than pressure will be paramount will it not? Wouldn't the design be such as to permit the maximum airflow the vacuum can pull, resistance from pipe diameter and corrugations being limiting factors?
I've been dithering over whether to use permanently fixed 4" or 6" PVC for my 1 1/2HP DC. I keep thinking the 6" is overkill, until I hear contrary opinions.
Maybe the 4" is 'good enough' (?).


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

As Mike has said 50hz power is not a problem with 'Universal motor' power tools. Universal motors are those with brushes, which includes vacuum cleaners. They can actually be ran on DC power a little more efficiently.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> I was actually referring to Hank's router(s), Mike, not the vacuum m/c on the Hz issue.
> If the vacuum is being used to pull air from the _dust collector_, volume rather than pressure will be paramount will it not? Wouldn't the design be such as to permit the maximum airflow the vacuum can pull, resistance from pipe diameter and corrugations being limiting factors?
> I've been dithering over whether to use permanently fixed 4" or 6" PVC for my 1 1/2HP DC. I keep thinking the 6" is overkill, until I hear contrary opinions.
> Maybe the 4" is 'good enough' (?).


Going to 6" can increase volume but cause a velocity drop. Going smaller can create more velocity but less volume. It does depend somewhat on air volume to float the particles but too little velocity and the particles will drop out of the airstream. Some guys have mentioned that their intake is 6" split into two 4" (which is close to the same cross sectional area) and they took the splitter off and ran a single 6". For my equipment the 4" lines work for everything but the TS and I don't think going 6" will help with it.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

So, that's a vote for the 4". Thanks, Charles.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" ...Especially with electronic components like speed control and soft start?"
Dick, as I mentioned in my last post (ships that pass in the night) I was speaking to the _electronics_ aspect of some power tools, not the vacuum cleaner.


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

I don't really know the electronics, but have been told by several sources that the 50-60 HZ difference is not an issue. In theory, I understand the volume/velocity issue - but don't understand how to use it to make a decision on what I should do. Sounds like a powerful, quiet vac with a 4" tubing would be ideal. Now back to reality and trade-offs. Some more guidance please.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Hank, one of the worst dust producing products is solid surface counter tops. In the US the pro's have been using the Betterley Stacc-Vac for about 20 years. I have had conversations at length with Tom at Betterley on what works best; they use standard vacuum hoses about 1-1/2" in diameter.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Mike said:


> Hank, one of the worst dust producing products is solid surface counter tops. In the US the pro's have been using the Betterley Stacc-Vac for about 20 years. I have had conversations at length with Tom at Betterley on what works best; they use standard vacuum hoses about 1-1/2" in diameter.


That is due in no small part to the problems associated with dragging a 4 - 6" dust hose behind your hand held router? I was using the 1 1/2 stuff on a hand held router yesterday.. that is about all I would want to have to deal with! Cutting dadoes for 5mm(1/4") plywood and the DC was marginal at best. For edge routeing it is a bit better.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

hankh said:


> I don't really know the electronics, but have been told by several sources that the 50-60 HZ difference is not an issue. In theory, I understand the volume/velocity issue - but don't understand how to use it to make a decision on what I should do. Sounds like a powerful, quiet vac with a 4" tubing would be ideal. Now back to reality and trade-offs. Some more guidance please.


Hank, my router table and fence I made just used a 1 1/4" (about 32mm) vac hose from a small, probably about 1000W, shop vac and it works just fine. It is also the right size to hook up to a sander or biscuit joiner. If you have several pieces of equipment and larger, like a jointer, you would want a stationary dust collector and it would probably use 4" hose. You can roll the big DCs around but that would be a pain in the butt, they are kinda big and awkward. 

Fine Woodworking magazine recently had an article about building a portable workbench that had a cyclone and a shop vac under and inside of it. If you use a shop vac and a cyclone you might want to consider something like this if you need to move around. It would be much handier if it were all together. And if you have your router attached to an insert plate, you could use the same table for sanding and finishing by just popping the router and insert out of the table.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> " ...Especially with electronic components like speed control and soft start?"
> Dick, as I mentioned in my last post (ships that pass in the night) I was speaking to the _electronics_ aspect of some power tools, not the vacuum cleaner.


Dan at the point of the electronics (soft start and speed control) the AC is converted to DC, so the frequency of the supply has nothing to do with it. I was speaking to all motors that use brushes.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ah! Thanks for the explanation, Dick. 
(if I'd thought about it for two minutes, I'd have _realized_ that *embarrassed*)


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## hankh (Jun 25, 2013)

Thanks for all the info. Now I have a direction. I'll let you know how I work it out.


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