# coping sled



## railbender (Dec 9, 2012)

Ok,here's my question ??
how can you hold your rails and stiles square and evenly and 
SAFELY without having a coping sled ? I have done this in the past with just
a good square block and feather boards and it turned out ok. Just wondering
if anyone had tried trapping the boards some other way,say with a saddle
type sled over the top? Trying to get out of raising bit any higher because
i have 0 inserts in fence and a sled would make me have to re-do all them. Kinda
lazy and cheap too. Thanks, HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL !


----------



## Bill7255 (Dec 23, 2012)

When I built my first cabinet doors I didn't seem to be able to hold the rails and stiles using a push block. So I ended up buying the Rockler coping sled for those doors. My second set doors my wife wanted a Shaker style door, so I bought the Sommerfeld bits. I also bought the video for making them. In the video they they just used a wood block push for the rails and styles. Since the bits were a matched set I thought I would try the block again, only this time I use a much larger block about 10 inches. I can do just as well and now the coping sled is somewhere in the shop gathering dust. I do just as well using the block as with a coping sled. I think the key is the larger block and making sure it is very square, and practice. I save my trial parts when calibrating my table saw sled for my blocks. I don't use any feather boards when doing the rails and styles.


----------



## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

If you want repeatable accuracy time after time, I believe you can't go wrong with an accurate sled. But, your choice.


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

I just clamp them to an auxiliary fence on my miter gage. Works both on my router table and on my shaper. Way cheaper than a sled, and no need to raise the bit an extra 3/8 of an inch.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Rail, Several companies offer small parts holders to save fingertips. Fingertips cost a fortune and the replacements usually do not work as well or the originals! MLCS (toll free 800-533-9298 or mlcswoodworking.com) offers one (#9542) that I just saw in their latest catalog on page 15, upper right corner. This, or something similar may help in _some_ cases.
Be smart, Be safe and Have Fun!


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> Rail, Several companies offer small parts holders to save fingertips. Fingertips cost a fortune and the replacements usually do not work as well or the originals! MLCS (toll free 800-533-9298 or mlcswoodworking.com) offers one (#9542) that I just saw in their latest catalog on page 15, upper right corner. This, or something similar may help in _some_ cases.
> Be smart, Be safe and Have Fun!


MLCS has good prices on fingers? Wait- I must have misread that!

I don't like coping sleds. I have one that I don't use. I don't like that it raises the work. I don't like that I'm cutting my work, but have to watch out to not cut the sled when I'm trying to get an odd cut. Another was how they where made. Store bought's seemed odd and clumsy to use, when I can move a piece of wood with more grace. I didn't like that it got the back of my hand oddly close to a spinning router bit. Even my own made coping sled, doesn't seem right to use on a router table at the table height I work.

What do I use instead? I used to use sacrificial blocks of wood. Then after using them again and again, I thought to myself, this is stupid. I can improve on a block of wood, right?

Now I use an "improved block of wood." Okay. It's another jig. It's two pieces of wood put together in the shape of an "L" to hold a piece 90 degrees from the fence and be able to slide it along that fence. In the corner that meets the fence and work, I have that corner cut out. In place of that corner, I have a sacrificial block. I have a piece of plywood on top of it all, keeping it all square and holding the sacrificial block in place (with a few finish nails).

The portion of the jig that is perpendicular from the router fence is only 1-1/2" wide. That way I can comfortably use both hands, with my thumbs over the trailing edge side, my palms on top and my fingers holding on to the work. To me, it feels natural to use and "in" control.

I had 2 toggle clamps mounted to it, to help hold work... At least that was the original idea ...and found that holding the arm of this jig (1-1/2" wide) and a rail was pretty easy and the clamps really where not needed. I then removed those toggle clamps to use on another jig where I did need them. 

The replaceable block is just 3/4" thick scraps for backing to use as zero clearance to prevent tearout. In fact, most of the jig is from scraps left over from panels, rails and stiles.

If interested, I could post a photo tomorrow(?)


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

I would like to see them, I will do the same after you,I have many blocks and some coping sleds, I made some just for panels and R and S bits..

==



MAFoElffen said:


> MLCS has good prices on fingers? Wait- I must have misread that!
> 
> I don't like coping sleds. I have one that I don't use. I don't like that it raises the work. I don't like that I'm cutting my work, but have to watch out to not cut the sled when I'm trying to get an odd cut. Another was how they where made. Store bought's seemed odd and clumsy to use, when I can move a piece of wood with more grace. I didn't like that it got the back of my hand oddly close to a spinning router bit. Even my own made coping sled, doesn't seem right to use on a router table at the table height I work.
> 
> ...


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

A couple of years ago, I was all set to drop $100+ on Woodpecker sled and thankfully dropped the question on this forum before pulling the trigger. Well, Bj and a few of the others convinced me to try a push block instead and I haven't felt the need for a sled since. Here's what I ended up with. The sacrificial face is replaceable but doesn't even need replaced very often, when the corner gets nibbled up, I just remove it and lop off the damage.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

> MLCS has good prices on fingers? Wait- I must have misread that!


*Whoops! I guess that did read kinda funny.* Oh well, MLCS has small parts holders. Fingers are much harder to find and replacements are painful and expensive. Been there, done that, but all 10 are working great now. Thanks Mike (say Howdy to Sharon for me).


----------



## Mdawson (Mar 25, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> MLCS has good prices on fingers?


I could use a few of those, all thumbs myself.

Mark


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> I would like to see them, I will do the same after you,I have many blocks and some coping sleds, I made some just for panels and R and S bits..
> 
> ==


Photo's of my "improved block of wood." Not pretty. Like I said, made just from cabinet scraps. Very functional.

Note, threw it up on my table saw for the photo's.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Here's some more,the pictures below are of the best one for Panels and R & S bits.once I set the 1st bit that's it, I don't need to move them up or down.

http://www.routerforums.com/67809-post14.html

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/7387-stiff-1-4-material-coping-sled.html

==



MAFoElffen said:


> Photo's of my "improved block of wood." Not pretty. Like I said, made just from cabinet scraps. Very functional.
> 
> Note, threw it up on my table saw for the photo's.


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> Here's some more,the pictures below are of the best one for Panels and R & S bits.once I set the 1st bit that's it, I don't need to move them up or down.
> 
> ...


LOL. Bob! Your first link... except for the push block handle... We separately came up with the same jig. Your photo:








My photo:








What do they say about great minds thinking alike? LOL. I know it's more like "Necessity is the mother of invention" and we both had the same necessity.

I have to agree. Use it all the time for my crosscuts in rails. I set my bit to height and bring into the bit in steps. 

I kind of like not having a handle on mine to use both hands (my preference). Only other difference in ours is I made mine with a replaceable sacrificial block. I want that backing to prevent breakout on my rail end cuts.

That's my "nit-pick thing" with most coping sleds, that most do not allow for fresh, replaceable backing to prevent breakout. Look at this:








No backing. 

This one does:








Then look at this:








People are wondering how they made the cut in the end of that rail without hitting the guides of this jig? They didn't. The first time you use it, you will cut those guides. No way not to. 

And the rail and stile bits I usually use are 1" tall bits being used on 3/4" stock. Usually some part of the bit above and below the chosen profile....

But you could then do 1 of things to get around that... Add another narrow piece behind your rail to act as the sacrificial backing or modify the coping sled so that you can attach replaceable sacrificial backing.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Mike, What am I missing here? Cannot there be a *cantilevering sacrificial board* that prevents blowout - to prevent cutting the jig? Otherwise after the initial "break-in cut" the workpiece is "cantilevering" anyway. Most anything (such as the wooden workpiece) will cantilever half of it's own width - *STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING 101*. _*Therefore*_, a 2" wide stile (or rail) can be cantilevered 1" without much risk. *WARNING:* There are possible exceptions to this such as: flimsy wood, feed speed, bit sharpness, interfering deflection, blah, blah and more blah.
This is not a criticism, only a "what if" question. I have no need for this kind of work.
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


----------



## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I used a miter gauge for years until I built a sled. I think the sled cost about $3 dollars to make using scrap materials and a clamp from Harbor Freight.


----------



## maurosnickare (Nov 18, 2011)

i don't understand something..why sacrifice the coping sled side?i mean if you have your miter track in the router table usually this coping sled have a miter gauge sliding bar that should fit in your tabletop..i have the delta miter sled for the router table..the shop build is a good idea,but not so much if you need to cope angled pieces,at least if you don't want build one everytime you work with angled coping..for example in sash windows work..see pictures..


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Snickare85 said:


> i don't understand something..why sacrifice the coping sled side?i mean if you have your miter track in the router table usually this coping sled have a miter gauge sliding bar that should fit in your tabletop..i have the delta miter sled for the router table..the shop build is a good idea,but not so much if you need to cope angled pieces,at least if you don't want build one everytime you work with angled coping..for example in sash windows work..see pictures..


Hi mauro - pretty neat sled. I'm just in the middle of building a push block for 45° but if I run into anything between, I'd be back in the box. Hmmm, will keep that thing in mind:thank_you2:


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> Mike, What am I missing here? Cannot there be a *cantilevering sacrificial board* that prevents blowout - to prevent cutting the jig? Otherwise after the initial "break-in cut" the workpiece is "cantilevering" anyway. Most anything (such as the wooden workpiece) will cantilever half of it's own width - *STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING 101*. _*Therefore*_, a 2" wide stile (or rail) can be cantilevered 1" without much risk. *WARNING:* There are possible exceptions to this such as: flimsy wood, feed speed, bit sharpness, interfering deflection, blah, blah and more blah.
> This is not a criticism, only a "what if" question. I have no need for this kind of work.
> Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


Otis. Yes. There can be an additional piece put behind the work piece (rail) so that the sled does not get eaten up. (Like I said in my post) You really only have to cut as far as half way past the diameter of the bit to complete the cut.

Notice one my posted pictures of manufactured coping sleds, where they did cut all the way instead of just completing the cut in the rail. If you go by the manufacturers instructions for use of their coping sleds, you will cut the blocks on their sleds. They think that's okay, because you now have as you referred to as the intitial breakin cut and everything after that at that height will be backed and supported against breakout...

All well and good... Until you change to a different profile rail bit. Then it is not supported for that profile. Then you have another profile, another cut... If you are allowing cuts in the blocks of your coping sled, then it takes a bit more out of it.

If you cantilever out from the sled, you could avoid that... and back it with another board. I have a good eye and steady hands, but me starting a cut this way, unsupported from the fence against a bearing'ed bit... and I get a somewhat rounded leading edge, instead of being sharp and crisp. Maybe on a good day, but on "many" rails for many doors for customers, I'd like to try to be a somewhat consistent.

On my own franken-coping sled. I just modified it by cutting the support block on the right side, made a counter sunk hole through the base... So I could mount sacrificial support blocks. On the jig I posted, replaceable sacrifical blocks. 

Like I said. My personal "nit-pick," but I've worked around it. Does that make any sense now?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

No need to use sacrificial support blocks if you use the wide stock way, most door frames are 2 7/16" wide if you use 5" wide boards you can put the cope ends in place and if you get some rip out you can just them off...once you rip the stock down to 2 7/16" wide..

===


----------



## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> No need to use sacrificial support blocks if you use the wide stock way, most door frames are 2 7/16" wide if you use 5" wide boards you can put the cope ends in place and if you get some rip out you can just them off...once you rip the stock down to 2 7/16" wide..
> 
> ===


Bob-

Thanks. Wow. You know what? I've been doing all my rails and stiles for all those years "individually"... and never thought of doing pairs together, then cutting them apart. I'll have to try that next time.


----------



## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Good and helpful points by all... Bob has a very good and safe solution - doing the routing while the board is double width. This way you're routing a nice wide part, which is many times safer. There will be times, though; when an end grain cut will be made or narrow width rails and/or stiles may be required (wainscoting). In these cases, I feel that a sacrificial board must be used - if one wants to preserve the sled. Several excellent sleds are pictured above, but it seems to me like any of them when being used for narrow workpieces would benefit from a sacrificial backer board. Obviously slippage between workpiece and backer must be prevented via multiple clamps.
That sled (Delta) that Mauro posted appears to be excellent - with two clamps and multiple positioning locations easily attainable. This has been a great thread!
Bob has nailed it though - in that SAFETY SHOULD ALWAYS BE THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


----------

