# I DID IT...well sort of



## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Took the plunge today and decided to make a few doors for the breaker box in the basement re-build. Took everyones advice and this is what happened.

I ripped some pine on the table saw..Had some 1x6 so I ripped 2"..Yea.no fun. I think I need a jointer. Oh sure, I could use the router but my homemade fence (till the incra arrives) wont let this happen.

Anyway......All went well and I had some stock to work with..Oh wait..The cope cut is...............ZERO FUN. I tried to hold by hand with my miter gauge..Got them all right except one..Clipped the corner before hittin the bearing. What I learned. Holding the stock by hand with the miter gauge..no go. My hands cramped up so bad. Anyone have plans or a link to a good sled or something with clamps to do the cope cuts on the rails.

Anyway, the door software works like a charm..It was dead nuts square when I was done. Made the panel out of 1/4" MDF seeing these doors will be painted. Looks great. Oh yea..Went to get some clamps at the local woodcraft and came home with a grex pin nailer (23) GA. Very cool to have when puttin doors together...clamps...who needs em 

Looking forward to some feedback on the best way to do cope cuts on the rails.

Still need to post pics of the router table. I can say it's got lots of black ...  Gota match the new saw stop I hope to get next april 

Why oh why did I get into this...I LOVE IT

Joe


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

BTW..I tried to make a quick coping sled but found if i used 1/2 mdf for the sled..I could not get the bit high enough...aghhhhhhhhhhhh...I guess I could of raised the bit in the chuck some??


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Joe you need to use 1/4" material for the coping sled. Either hardboard or plastic will do. Attached is a simple sled I made using a piece of Lexan and scrap lumber I had laying around the shop. Since the pic I have added a sheet of sandpaper to it to help in keeping the board from moving.

Raising the bit is a bad idea. It puts too much strain on the bit and is totally dangerous. The bit should never be raised from the bottom more than about 1/16".


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi lablover

here's just two I have on hand, one with 1/4" MDF base and one with 1/4" thick plastic base.

You may have miss this tip but if you use wide stock when you make the cope cuts then rip the stock to size (2 7/16" wide) , it will make your job go faster and it will help with chip out (rip out) plus by using wide stock it's a bit easyer to keep the stock true to the fence and the bit.

Once you get the hang of it you will not want to use the sled at all and I will tell you why after you make a door or two... 


Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

cool..i assume these run in the miter slot?..1/4" should do the trick. Sandpaper is a great idea too BTW..I found the piece wanting to slip around alot

Joe


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

lablover said:


> cool..i assume these run in the miter slot?..1/4" should do the trick. Sandpaper is a great idea too BTW..I found the piece wanting to slip around alot
> 
> Joe


You can use a track but the fence is just fine  plus it always true unlike most tee tracks... a 1/16" is a BIG deal when it comes to frames...
By the way DON't use nails in the joints, if you make them right you will not need them  ......
A quick clamp up, just to pull the joint in will do the job...or tap with a block and wooden hammer....
One more tip  when you make your sled think male female the backup block works best when you have the female joint to help hold the stock in place..and true....
But it take a diff.backup block for 1/2",5/8",3/4",7/8",1" stock...but a quck change is easy with wing nuts.

Bj


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Nice work George! Good looking door and sled!

Corey


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Thanks Corey. It took about 15 min. to throw the sled together.

Joe... I don't even have a miter slot on my router table. I have found that a good, solid, square fence is really all you need for most applications.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

curiousgeorge said:


> Joe... I don't even have a miter slot on my router table. I have found that a good, solid, square fence is really all you need for most applications.


Me neither George, I have only made one set of doors like that but I didn't use a miter gauge either. 

Corey


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Corey

I know you like to make boxes and use the dovetail joint and the box joints I'm surprise you have not tried the R & S bits they put the dovetail joint to shame.. 
for the main part of the box and the lid 

They make small sets (min.set) for glass panel doors that work great for box joints.
magine where you can incorporate small raised panels: jewelry boxes, humidors, dollhouses, desk sets, doll cradles, mini grandfather clocks and more...

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=03002&d=86&b=1
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=02006&d=86&b=1

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/list.asp?d=85&p=1

Bj


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Bob, I have got to do very little work in the shop lately and in the last year due to remodeling. As soon as I get the kitchen done I have so much I want to do. Lots of boxes and styles.. inlay and carvings etc. So much you can do with boxes. Actually I have checked out these mini R & S and raised panel sets as I think they would make some real neat jewlery cases and stuff like that. That is definitely on the list. If you have ever watched the Jewelry and Lingerie cabinet on the RWS they use a rail and stile set to make panel and frames and then use the spacer fence to make combination joints to put the panel corners together. Pretty slick!

Eagle America has a set as well with matching RP bit. One of these days buddy.... one of these days. I am going to work at least on saturday on my little router table. Got my OP stuff in the mail in 2 days! Got an undrilled 7 inch plate and will be building the cabinet, routing for the insert and installing and drilling the plate. Should be fun. Photos soon 

Corey


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi Joe: MLCS and Rockler sell sleds, some have a phenolic base plate I think the best ones I've seen had about 1/4" aluminum base. If you are using a home made router fence, you can still make it do jointing. just add a strip of material to the outfeed side of your wooden fence. The thickness of the material sholud match the thickness of the cut you make. ie if your taking a 1/16th cut off your stock you have to add a 1/16th of material to the out feed side. If you are using or intend to get an Oak-Park
table, I would suggest that you get an Oak-Park raised panel system.
Woodnut65


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

My home made fence took all but 30 min to make. I'm still waiting for the ups guy to drop of the incra. Looks to be latter next week. I do have o say it was an eye opener for sure. Learned alot doing those 2 doors. I forgot to take Bob's advice and do all the cope cuts, then rip them to width. I can see where that would of made things lots easier for me..And, if I had any tear out..I could of had that on the scrap end of the wood. I'll run to woodcraft and grab a few of those clamps and make a sled. I have to say it was good practice. I'm looking forward to making the bar area and al the cabs for that. Then, the wife decided I'm doing such a bang up job she wants the kitchen done...WHEW. Actually, I have included her and asked her to paint the 2 doors I just did for the breaker box opening. I gotta get back to the basement and stop playing with all the new toys. First coat of mud is up..need another coat...sand,paint, drop ceiling, floor..Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh BTW..The area I did in the basement is 1400 square feet. Would make a heck of a shop 

Thanks for the jointing tip woodnut. Might have to try that to clean up the edges a bit. What would be a good bit to use for this?

Joe


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

You didn't ask what the easy way is and why you don't need a sled ...once you have done it the hard way and that's always the best way to learn..

So I will tell you now and let you try it out b/4 you get going on all the cabinets and doors..

Almost all R & P and Panel sets are match set, that's to say the cutters on the bits are the same height form the bottom of the bit.... it's because they will make doors/frames come out right on the button if you use them right without a sled.

The key is a rubber gromet in the bottom of the collet nut or in the shaft router hole.
The gromet will stop the bit from going to deep in the collet and will always be in the same place when you chuck it in.
This will put the cutters in the same place for both bits or the panel cutter  the trick in making doors is to get all the parts to line up b/4 you glue them up with taking a sander to them to fix the error of over lap.
The next trick is to make push blocks that have male and female slots just like the ones you are going to put in the doors.... this will hold the stock true and in place when you pass it by the bits....with a small end block on the push block this will give you control over the cut..and a way to push it by the bit.
The easy way to make the push blocks is screw some srcap stock to the standard push blocks then run them by the bits b/4 you make the doors.
By the way when you do it this way you now have a setup guage for the next time. 
ALWAYS use the same stock for the push blocks and always put the good side down when making the door parts.
One for the female and one for the male slots,,,,then make your cope cuts then switch the bits and make the pattern cuts then rip the stock to size...it's always best to make the stiles a bit longer than you need and then cut off the ends to the right size, once it's glueded up this will take care of any rip outs or bad corners or miss line up or out of sq. abit ( 1/4" to 3/8" works best ) then chuck a new bit and put a nice edge cut on the doors, after you drill the 35mm holes for the hinges.

Hope this help you make great doors and a new kitchen 

Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Joe

Here's a snapshort or two of the ones I keep around for a quick setup, they are not glued up just taped up for a quick take down.

Plus this setup jig,this is a great for setting up the bits quick and easy.
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=ezset&d=158&b=2

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Bob, I hope this is not asking too much but can you post a photo of the blocks you are talking about. With the scrap the way you explained it. I'm having trouble visualizing it. ...EDIT...MAn..you already posted it before I asked..Thanks Also..The CMT tongue and groove bits I have are a matched set (whatever that means) Each shank has a lip on it for what I assume is to put the bit in to the ledge on the shank and all is good. Question I have is what if ou have to take the router out of the table or crank it up to change bits. Does that not mess up your settings.

More edit..I'm still not getting the push block jig...

Joe


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Bob

The issue I was running into yesterday was when doing cope cut..I nibbled away a little more wood on each pass..on one cut on the final pass..the front edge of the cope went into the bit too far before hitting the bearing. Could this have been because I did not have a zero clearance around the bit..Again, this was a momemade fence with a big cutout for the bit. Even on my practice cuts I went to deep a few times before contacting the bearing.

I can't thank you enough

Joe


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe
The fence can be just about anything you have BUT some 3/4" MDF works well 
Clamp it to the fence you have now or screw it or carr. bolt it, once you have it in place mark around the bit at the right height then just cut out that part and you just made a zero clearance fence  that's to say the only part of the bit that is showing is the cutters and the bearing..

Setting==once the bit is set you should not move the router up or down.
This can be done with a pop out base plate or a big hole in the base plate.

I did post a picture of the push blocks male and female, but you must read the text as well....to see how to use them...
You should make just one clean pass with the R & S bits unless you see a error in one of them ,they must be true....without any nicks etc.

Can you post a picture of your router table ? it would help,, the router mounting base plate is the key.

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Bob..I'll go take a pic now


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Lets see if I can pull off these pics

Please feel free to give me your opinion on my almost done table








































I got the insert from a buddy that has an older cmt table. It was loads of fun doing the inlay.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

Nice Table, I have about the same one and the key is the same for yours, pop out the ring and put the bits in place without moving the router up or down.

The offset wrench can be made or you can buy one from sommerfeld tools.com for about 12.oo bucks I think.. 
http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/item.asp?n=wr003&d=159&b=2
they also have others to fit some of the routers.

They will let you slip right under the bit and remove the one you have in place without moving the router up or down, this will keep the bit right at the same spot as the other one was,,, = matched router bits..
You don't need the rubber gromet in the collet nut if you don't want to use one, all you need to do remove the nut all the way and push the bit in the collet nut then just place it on the router table top and push it down until it's bottom out then just screw it back on the threaded shaft of the router and lock it down.
Then your set to make the next part of the door and all the parts will just line up right on the button without any sanding....that's why it's so easy to do with a matched set of router bits....  and why they make them that way 

But if you use a sled it's hard to get them to line up without playing with the setting all the time,1/16 " is a big deal when it comes to doors,face frames,etc.
"set it once and foget it "




here's a snapshot of mind below.

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

I think I got the router collet pretty well centered. After seeing your pics..I bet your way was better. What harm if any if the collet is not dead center in the plate? As long as bits don't hit the ring..It should be fine right? Again..it looks centered..But I am a bit retentive 
I am a bit curious to what the 3 holes are around the round plate. When mine is running, sometimes the plate spins real slow.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

lablover said:


> I think I got the router collet pretty well centered. After seeing your pics..I bet your way was better. What harm if any if the collet is not dead center in the plate? As long as bits don't hit the ring..It should be fine right? Again..it looks centered..But I am a bit retentive
> I am a bit curious to what the 3 holes are around the round plate. When mine is running, sometimes the plate spins real slow.


The holes are for other routers like the PC...3 hole bolt pattern.
The ring will move a bit but just a bit of silcon one dot will hold it but I also use clear tape sometimes. (shipping tape) small patch.
But it's not a big deal when it turns..it should have a small roll pin on the side of the ring, about 1/16" x 3/8" long/

The hole not on dead center is not a big deal unless you use a brass guides in the table top...like I do from time to time.

But you can always reline it quick and easy with a center plug in one of the snapshots in the post above.

I use a swing fence that makes it easy to change bits with out removing the fence all the way ...it just snaps back into place once I have a new bit in place.
Plus I can use both sides of the top for small parts on one side with the t-track and big items on the other side (by just poping off the fence and poping it back into place.

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> The holes are for other routers like the PC...3 hole bolt pattern.
> The ring will move a bit but just a bit of silcon one dot will hold it but I also use clear tape sometimes. (shipping tape) small patch.
> But it's not a big deal when it turns..it should have a small roll pin on the side of the ring, about 1/16" x 3/8" long/
> 
> ...


So the half moon cuts around the outer ring (almn) is for another router? Looks odd, almose like some anti rotation thingy do hicky...heheheheh


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

It's because the PC (Porter Cable) router base mouting holes are almost the same size as the ring, once it's drill and a couter sink used the holes will be a long slot type. ... 
And the Allen Flat head mounting screws are under the ring edge.

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Pretty slick makin another ring for the outside ring...How did ya pull that off?...I'd like to do one myself.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

If you are talking about the black one, it's a base plate off a PC router, or can get one from Rockler,MLCS, many other outlets will have them...
Once you have one just take some double sided carpet tape and put it on the Alum.one then use a center pin on both and put the black one on top of the alum. one trim off most of it on the band saw or with a jig saw then use the router table with a trim bit in the router and just go around the two of them , then remove the black or clear one and you have it done...
Now you can use the standard brass guides to do MANY router jobs on the table.


Router Replacement Bases
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...tacc1.html#All_In_One_router_plate_kit_anchor

10 PC ROUTER TEMPLATE GUIDE SET
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95160

Shear Angle Flush Trim Bits
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...rthtml/pages/bt_flush.html#shear_angle_anchor



Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

Bob

That there is slick as can be. Heck, I can make several different ones using either mdf of even that white slick stuff uhm something. What drives me nuts about the plate is getting it level with the top. When I made the top, I used an inlay bit to make a patern then cut it out of the top with the inlay bit. Came out perfect and round but I did it before I laminated the mica on so now the almn plate sits below the top.

I have to use the almn plate leveling screws and that works fine but then I have a gap underneath and sawdust etc gets in there and the palte starts to move.

Part of me wants to just put in a square almn plate you can buy from woodpeckers or something but I'd rather not because I tried a phenolic one before and it was not dead flat.

Anyway, I think I will make my own round plate like you did just a bit thicker to make up for the booboo I did.

OUTSTANDING.

The last set of photos gave me some great ideas. Thanks Bob, you are a great help

Joe


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bob, regarding the centre ring, for my last router table I routed a heap of them from Perspex or similar (I acquired a large piece so don't know what it was) using a circle cutting jig so making them for zero clearance was just a matter of enlarging the hole left by the circle cutting jig. I hope this makes sense. By the way, I noticed that you mentioned 10mm, does this mean that you are slowly realising how easy the metric system is?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

lablover said:


> Bob
> 
> That there is slick as can be. Heck, I can make several different ones using either mdf of even that white slick stuff uhm something. What drives me nuts about the plate is getting it level with the top. When I made the top, I used an inlay bit to make a patern then cut it out of the top with the inlay bit. Came out perfect and round but I did it before I laminated the mica on so now the almn plate sits below the top.
> 
> ...



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Hi Joe, you'er Welcome

You said the saw dust gets under the Alum. that's not a big deal because the Vac. system will pull that out once you move stock over the bit and block the hole with the stock, I run two pickups for the Vac.system one on the fence and one that's under the top ,right on the router base,it keeps the chips and saw dust from dropping down into the router motor.
As you know most routers are made to run upside down and are open so to speak on the bottom of the motor to blow out saw dust and keep the motor cool,this helps the Vac. system suck up the dust and chips also. 

When you make your new inserts do the same as the Alum.one 4 small Allen set screws, just a note about the set screws,,,the Alum. plate I got with the top the set screws very SHORT so I replace them with longer ones and ground the ends Flat (removed the cup point) so they would sit flat then with a dot of silcone that locked the set screws from turning but they can be taken out if needed or a fine adjustment.

Just a note about MDF rings,, they don't work well but plastic works well and can be drilled and tap easy...the same thing is true for hardboard just can't stand up to the drilled and taped holes.
Plastic can be had at just about any Hardware stores/HomeDepot,etc. and is cheap for a 24" x 24" blank, white and clear stock with the stickey paper on it.


besure to post some snapshots when get it all setup 

Bj


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Harry

"I noticed that you mentioned 10mm, does this mean that you are slowly realising how easy the metric system is?"

It's not easy for me  but I know it should be because I have ten fingers 
and the metic is based on 10 ,,, but the router top I have has metic holes drilled and taped in the metic size, so just used them and made the stand off studs to fit and hold the guard and starter pins.

Bj


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## lablover (May 15, 2007)

will do on the pics.

Great call on the plastic and the set screws. I like the dot of silicone too. Think I'm taking the day off today. Need to spend time with the wife.

Thanks again for the tips

Joe


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

You'er Welcome

I have one of them also and I think I may do the same thing after I get the shop clean .

She gave me a pair of cutters to trim the trees or to say she put them on the table on top of the laptop computer and said you know what I want and with that look in her eyes...I guess I'm in for it today  ..

Have a good one JOE
I know I will   LOL

Bj


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## Roger Pozzi (Mar 26, 2006)

curiousgeorge said:


> Joe you need to use 1/4" material for the coping sled. Either hardboard or plastic will do. Attached is a simple sled I made using a piece of Lexan and scrap lumber I had laying around the shop. Since the pic I have added a sheet of sandpaper to it to help in keeping the board from moving.
> 
> Raising the bit is a bad idea. It puts too much strain on the bit and is totally dangerous. The bit should never be raised from the bottom more than about 1/16".


I made a simple sled out of 1/4" ply with a backer block but,,,, I can't raise the bit high enough to clear the sled without setting my bit higher in the collet. I can just barely keep 1" of shank in the collet. Will this be alright??


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

No. You always want your bit fully supported by the collet. Did you remove the sub base plate from your router when you mounted it? Perhaps you just have a short bit? Longer bits are much cheaper than repairing head wounds. Get my point?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roger

It should be BUT to be on the safe side pull the collet nut off the router and push the bit into the collet nut then sit it on the work bench , then bottom the bit out in collet nut,the bit should be in all the way then take a maker and mark the bit shaft then put in back in the router, then check your jig to see if you can make the pass safe, if so you should be set to go if not you will need to get a Collet Extension like the one below, but don't cheat the clamping power of the collet nut.

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/router_collet.html

Note ***
When you mark the bit shaft use a white paint marker, something you can see well if you can go just pass the end of the collet nut by a 1/16" to 1/8" is best but it will work well at the base of the nut.


"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator
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## Roger Pozzi (Mar 26, 2006)

Roger Pozzi said:


> I can't raise the bit high enough to clear the sled without setting my bit higher in the collet. I can just barely keep 1" of shank in the collet. Will this be alright??


Okay, my bit is fully inserted and the base plate was removed from the router but,,,,, my problem is that the bit cuts into the sled while in use. Do I need to raise the work piece up from the sled or,,,,, am I using the wrong bit? There is about 3/16" of cutter below the top of the sled and raising it destroys the profile I'm cutting. I can't find a different bit than what I'm using and it is part of a rail/stile set from Holbren.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roger

You don't need to use the sled if you don't want to 

You must be making the cope cut , Do this, start wide wide stock that's to say if you are using 2 7/16" wide rails the norm. use 5" wide stock, then set you bit to the right height without the sled, once you have it set and have zero the bearing push the stock by the bit with a push block on the back end of the pass, this will help with rip out.
Do both end now take the stock to the table and rib it to the size you want it to be, now you have both rails, now change the bit the pattern bit and do the thing, now you have all 4 parts for the doors. 

If you a VS router pull the RPM down to 10,000 rpm or less this will help. less noise...


NOTE **** you can also put on the pattern cut b/4 you rib the stocks to size on the cope parts, this will help because the stock is wide so you can control it, make one pass then flip it around and make the 2nd , now rib the stock to size.

One more NOTE*** Almost ALL S & R bit sets are matched, that's to say the cutters are the same height from the bottom of the router bit shank, they make them this way so you can change bits and still get both parts to line up on the dot ever time.
But there is a trick to it, 1st do the cope cuts, leave about 1/8" of stock on the bottom (face side/ggod side), once you have the cope cuts made DON'T move the router up or down just replace the cope bit with the pattern bit now make all the pattern cuts and all your parts for the door will line up right on the dot with out any sanding so to speak...

If you have the type of router that you pop out of the table to replace the bits that's fine, but a little trick to keep the bits in the same height is needed
Remove the collet nut and press in a rubber washer the same size as the router bit 1/2" right in the base of the collet nut, this will act as stop for the router bit, so when you drop in a new bit it will be the same height all the time, this small trick will work on many router sets because many of them are made the same way " matched set"

Once you make a door and you like it save the cut offs so you have some setup blocks for the next time you want to make some doors just besure to mark the setup parts with the type of bits you used and bit brand name they are not all made the same.
If you didn't have any cut offs go back and make some setup parts, they also make great push blocks because of the male ,female thing...just screw one of them to a plastic hold down block (Org.or yellow type with the handle) you will be glad you did the next time 

Hope this helps a bit, doors are fun to make and it's always nice when the come out looking great and they will once you get the hang of it.  have fun


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## Roger Pozzi (Mar 26, 2006)

Thank you,,,I'll try that out this weekend. Sounds like the easiest solution yet.


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