# Best router for integral above table height and bit change?



## tnoll (Mar 9, 2012)

I've been studying routers which have integral above-table bit height adjustments but many don't specify how the height adjustment gets locked in and if bit changes are possible above the table. I read a too-old FWW article that included the Triton and he glossed over locking it, saying in his experience the rack and pinion stayed put (but acknowledged Triton said to lock it). The point is it doesn't do any good to have integral (ie no lift required) bit height adjustment if you have to crawl under the table to lock the motor or unlock it to change the bit. 

I'd love to buy the Bosch MRC23 combo kit but can't get locking and changing info on it. Any comments on this or other such routers? I'm in a shopping mood.


----------



## WillMatney (Oct 6, 2011)

All the routers are like this, except for one, and I think it was a Porter Cable fixed base, which had a hex end come out of the latch hinge that you could reach above the table. It was either the Porter Cable or maybe a Bosch, I can't remember.

The best ready-to-go routers for under table routing are the Bosch and the newer Sears Craftsman, because of their above the table adjustment. However, the latch has to be worked from underneath. The Craftsman plunge base is also above table adjustable, and is the only one that I know of. Of course, a Router Razer can be used on several brands to convert them to above-table.


The Triton, I've heard some bad things about the gearing in them breaking. Evidently, the gears are plastic, and they didn't work out too good for a few customers.


----------



## KennK (Mar 7, 2012)

My Bosch 1617 router has the above-table hex key adjustment you mention. In use the router is fixed to the base when a cam lever is flipped - this tightens the base around the motor housing. 

The 1617 actually has three rough depth settings. First I flip the cam lever to allow the router motor to move, then I push another lever that allows me to move the motor between the three depth settings - each is 1/2" difference. When I release that lever locks. Then I use the fine adjustment screw (the same one that the above-table hex key rotates) to do the fine depth setting. Then I lock it all down by flipping the cam lever. 

Both the cam lever and the rough depth settings are managed under the table. Only the fine depth adjustment is done above the table.

To exchange bits I need to remove the motor from the base - its really pretty easy to do: Flip the cam lever to loosen it, press the spring-loaded rough depth lever, twist and pull the motor out. The twisting seems to be Bosch's way to prevent the motor from falling out in an out-of-control way. 

The manual is available at no cost at boschtools.com .

Ken


----------



## KennK (Mar 7, 2012)

I just stumbled upon this article "Routers for Router Tables" that might be of interest to you:

(I can't post a URL because I don't yet have 10 posts, so here's the best I can do)

www DOT finewoodworking DOT com/media/RouterTables DOT pdg


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

> The Triton, I've heard some bad things about the gearing in them breaking. Evidently, the gears are plastic, and they didn't work out too good for a few customers.


That is old news - the current gears are, I understand, metal, and metal replacement parts were available.


To answer the OP's question - I have a Triton TRA001 mounted in a table and I have never locked height adjuster _ Mine does not have above table height adjusting and I reach under the table (Oak park table) and use the adjusting knobs _ I have never had a problem with height changing during use......


----------



## WillMatney (Oct 6, 2011)

*Bosch*



KennK said:


> My Bosch 1617 router has the above-table hex key adjustment you mention. In use the router is fixed to the base when a cam lever is flipped - this tightens the base around the motor housing.
> 
> The 1617 actually has three rough depth settings. First I flip the cam lever to allow the router motor to move, then I push another lever that allows me to move the motor between the three depth settings - each is 1/2" difference. When I release that lever locks. Then I use the fine adjustment screw (the same one that the above-table hex key rotates) to do the fine depth setting. Then I lock it all down by flipping the cam lever.
> 
> ...


You're correct about the Bosch, and the Craftsman is essentially the same router, in the fixed base version. The only differences are in the plunge bases.

The Porter Cable, though, has an extra hole in the base where you can unlock and lock the latch, along with the hole for above the table adjustment. Its the only one I know that can do this, and they probably have a patent on this style latch-lock. The only other way would be to buy a good router lift that has a built in lock.

I started to buy the Porter cable, until I read the reviews on the Bosch and similar Craftsman routers. I bought the Craftsman because I could get a better price, and I have no complaints with mine at all.

Now, bit changing on the Craftsman can be a bear. When you raise the router all the way up, while in the table, you can hardly reach the spindle lock button. I ended up buying a set of bit extensions, that came with the wrenches, from MCLS over it.


----------



## WillMatney (Oct 6, 2011)

*Triton*



jw2170 said:


> That is old news - the current gears are, I understand, metal, and metal replacement parts were available.
> 
> 
> To answer the OP's question - I have a Triton TRA001 mounted in a table and I have never locked height adjuster _ Mine does not have above table height adjusting and I reach under the table (Oak park table) and use the adjusting knobs _ I have never had a problem with height changing during use......


That's good to know, but here in the US, when this problem came up, they put the routers on sale, really cheap, and a few places are still trying to sell them off. One wont know what he has, until he buys it, then checks it out, unless the seller can verify that the ones they have have the metal gears.


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

"Best" is a pretty subjective term. I've been running the Freud 3000 for a little over a year now and it has worked well for me. Leaving the springs in plus the weight of the router holds it in place pretty well, hence, I seldom flip the lock. Not sure of the big deal about reaching under there anyway as that is also where the speed control is. Non of the soft start/variable speed routers, that I am aware of, have remote speed controls available nor can they use aftermarket speed controllers. (I guess there is one exception with the Milwaukee 5625... maybe). It is a little easier for me though, as I have removed the front door of the router box for increased cooling.


----------



## tnoll (Mar 9, 2012)

Thanks to all for your opinions. I have read the FWW article and am still researching. My stuff has been stored for years and the last time I had a router table set up was 1989 or so. I distinctly recall my Bosch router with a 1" core box bit falling out of the base while running and bouncing around the (thankfully maple) floor of my shop. I think they hadn't even invented router lifts yet and I'm just looking for the best/cost effective approach. I did see a youtube of the Bosch MR23 not being able to fall out : )


----------



## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

The PC 890 series routers are capable of height adjustment, lock/unlock and bit change above the table. The only thing that can't be done above the table is change the speed. 

Every member of the forum has their favorite table router for various reasons of course and that is as it should be. I have a PC 892 in my table and love it because the only reason for going under the table is to clean the router every so often. Actually I have a tilt top table so access to the router is much easier than the conventional router table.


----------



## tnoll (Mar 9, 2012)

Well right from the horse's mouth at Bosch, I just talked to the senior technician there. (The first layer didn't seem to know). I asked if the MRC23EVSK allowed above the table bit changes and above the table height locking. No in both cases. I gave him a moment of stunned silence, rudely asked what they were thinking and told him other manufacturers have those features . . . 

Terrie


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

WillMatney said:


> That's good to know, but here in the US, when this problem came up, they put the routers on sale, really cheap, and a few places are still trying to sell them off. One wont know what he has, until he buys it, then checks it out, unless the seller can verify that the ones they have have the metal gears.


This is not a big problem - I feel that this issue has been blown out of proportion as the Triton was not a "US made" router. An incentive not to buy a router made elswhere???

Mine is the old model, used upside down in the table for years with no problem.

Even on the Australian wood working forum , in the special Triton forum, this problem is rarely mentioned .

I would like to find your source of information "and a few places are still trying to sell them off" - this change was made some years ago, I believe.

This is almost to the "urban myth" level........


----------



## billg71 (Mar 25, 2011)

tnoll said:


> Thanks to all for your opinions. I have read the FWW article and am still researching. My stuff has been stored for years and the last time I had a router table set up was 1989 or so. I distinctly recall my Bosch router with a 1" core box bit falling out of the base while running and bouncing around the (thankfully maple) floor of my shop. I think they hadn't even invented router lifts yet and I'm just looking for the best/cost effective approach. I did see a youtube of the Bosch MR23 not being able to fall out : )


Most accurate approach is a good lift, no question about it. You're talking about something made to last for a specific purpose vs. something thrown in as an add-on for advertising value to an existing tool made in God-knows-what remote corner of the Earth where labor is cheapest and QC is whatever they can get past the non-existent inspectors. I have the Bosch 1617 and the PC 890, there's no way I'd trade either of their above-the-table bases for my Mast-R-Lift II. No comparison, it's like AA ball vs. the Big Show.

Cost-effective is a nebulous term, sort of like value-engineering. How much do you figure your time is worth? How many tools have you "upgraded" and how much less would it have cost you to buy something decent in the first place compared with buying something essentially unusable then buying the good tool you wanted?

You pays your money and takes your choice. TANSTAAFL...

just MHO,
Bill


----------



## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

James - I think the issue with Triton products in North America is Kreg taking over the distributorship. While Kreg has a pretty good reputation for customer service on blue things with a big "K" on them, they have been conspicuous by their abscence on this line. I have the Triton 10" sliding scms as well as the small JOF001 router so I have been kind of keeping my eye on this. email questions about my router went to the dead e-mail office I guess. No response. But I resolved the issue on my own so didn't follow up on that one. Just hoping the scms holds out.:sad:


----------



## Greyone (Dec 24, 2010)

I am not a pro at routers but I just bought a Milwaukee 5625-20 and did so for above height adjustment capability and the 3.25 horsepower rating only to find out that I must lock the router height from under the table - oh well. My point is that I would rather have the horsepower than the ability to change bits above the table. So which router one buys is usually a trade off between one thing or another. Just do your due diligence


----------



## WillMatney (Oct 6, 2011)

jw2170 said:


> This is not a big problem - I feel that this issue has been blown out of proportion as the Triton was not a "US made" router. An incentive not to buy a router made elswhere???
> 
> Mine is the old model, used upside down in the table for years with no problem.
> 
> ...


You can find them here in the US, and the way you spot them, is that the sell price is less than 1/2 off what they list for new at the other comparable sellers websites. I mean to say, that the ones who still have them, are some of the big woodworking retailers, who bought a ton of them, and when the probelm arouse, the sales dropped off, so they slashed the price a few months after, and haven't raised them since. This "sell" has been going on at one retailer now for a few years, that I know of, and a few keep showing them on the closeouts e-mail. I know some on here have most likely gotten the same sales e-mails I have, and a few still have them listed this way. As a matter of fact, one calls them new old stock, or did, under their clearance deals, which are non-returnable. As a matter of fact, anything on sale is generally non-returnable, here, with some retailers.

I have no doubt that Triton has cured any bugs in them, and they are now undoubtly a good router, but here in the US, which one are you buying? Believe me, I started to buy one, and after learning about the sell, I looked at other brands. The problem is, here in the US, a seller will swear up and down that something is all right and nothing wrong, but what you receive is something different. This, especially, from online sales people.


----------



## WillMatney (Oct 6, 2011)

*Bosch*



tnoll said:


> Well right from the horse's mouth at Bosch, I just talked to the senior technician there. (The first layer didn't seem to know). I asked if the MRC23EVSK allowed above the table bit changes and above the table height locking. No in both cases. I gave him a moment of stunned silence, rudely asked what they were thinking and told him other manufacturers have those features . . .
> 
> Terrie


The Bosch 1617 series is the one that has the above table height adjustment for the fixed base router. Their plunge base doesn't have it. However, neither can be locked above the table, you have to use the latch-clamp on the side.

The only router I know of, that does both, is the one fixed base model from Porter Cable. I rechecked myself on this, and it does have two access holes that goes to the height adjustment, and the lock.

If you already have a good router motor out of a fixed base, there is an article in the December 2011 issue of ShopNotes, number 121, to build a router lift. It was pretty neat, though I would have used aluminum channel for the gibs instead of wood, and added a lock.

Last, I think Rockler has a lift on sale right now, at a reasonable price.


----------



## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

tnoll said:


> Well right from the horse's mouth at Bosch, I just talked to the senior technician there. (The first layer didn't seem to know). I asked if the MRC23EVSK allowed above the table bit changes and above the table height locking. No in both cases. I gave him a moment of stunned silence, rudely asked what they were thinking and told him other manufacturers have those features . . .
> 
> Terrie


The simple solution, of course, would be to buy from the other manufacturers.
Don't understand the need to be rude because they don't make exactly what you want.


----------



## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

with the right lift, they all allow it. i am a new woodworker and i made my own lift with above table height control / adjustment and bit changing. it was actually very easy.

fwiw, mine is the cheapest ryobi fixed base router the make.


----------



## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

here is my thread about it ...

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/33666-diy-router-table.html#post275463


----------



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

tnoll said:


> Thanks to all for your opinions. I have read the FWW article and am still researching. My stuff has been stored for years and the last time I had a router table set up was 1989 or so. I distinctly recall my Bosch router with a 1" core box bit falling out of the base while running and bouncing around the (thankfully maple) floor of my shop. I think they hadn't even invented router lifts yet and I'm just looking for the best/cost effective approach. I did see a youtube of the Bosch MR23 not being able to fall out : )


Tnoll, the Craftsman 27683 has the same setup with the fixed base as the Bosch. The router will not drop out until you push the button. I recently bought the Craftsman 27683(total Craftsman club cost online $83) kit and I am probably going to buy another. The plunge base is smooth with zero side play.The above table height adjustment is great also. I believe the Craftsman and the Bosch are the same router. The Craftsman is cheaper because of the name, but as the reviews go higher so will the cost. This is how Amazon bases their prices, by the reviews that are posted.


----------



## tnoll (Mar 9, 2012)

*above table adjustment*



tnoll said:


> I've been studying routers which have integral above-table bit height adjustments but many don't specify how the height adjustment gets locked in and if bit changes are possible above the table. I read a too-old FWW article that included the Triton and he glossed over locking it, saying in his experience the rack and pinion stayed put (but acknowledged Triton said to lock it). The point is it doesn't do any good to have integral (ie no lift required) bit height adjustment if you have to crawl under the table to lock the motor or unlock it to change the bit.
> 
> I'd love to buy the Bosch MRC23 combo kit but can't get locking and changing info on it. Any comments on this or other such routers? I'm in a shopping mood.


I read the same articles as you and if that's the new Bosch, I wished I could buy it too. But they have no above table locking OR bit change. I called them. Went with Porter Cable which has both. There's a tool you buy that unlocks the housing from one hole in the table and raises the motor from another. Think I bought the 892 but also think other more powerful ones have that feature.


----------



## tnoll (Mar 9, 2012)

There's a new Triton though since I bought PC. PC works fine though and is quiet.


----------

