# A Nice Surprise



## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

After months of hints, my wife finally surprised me with a router lift. I don't use my routers much but have always wanted to. In the past, I've done the basics and would like to expand my router skills. My plan is to begin by mounting the lift into my table saw extension. I have read a through quite a few pages and see the subject of a table saw mounted router or a separate router table has been discussed in depth. For me right now, it will be mounted into my table saw as it is the easiest way to get started. Wish me luck. When I get to ten posts, I will post progress in living color.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

So why did I post in Guide Bushings and Templates? I have to rout the lift into the table saw top and I figured I would use a template. This will be a first.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Greetings Todd and welcome to the router forum. Thank you for joining us. Hurry and post we're waiting!!


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Todd, Welcome. Say hi to new people in the Introductions threads & you could be at 10 in a matter of minutes.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

Hi to you both. Thanks, Jlord, I sure I won't have a problem getting to ten with all the questions swirling around in my head.

I'm getting ready to make up the table top out of MDF and Formica. This is not a problem. What worries me, after I spend all this time making the top to fit my table saw, I have to rout a cutout for the lift plate. I would hate to screw this new top up so I plan to make a few trial runs with some scrap. After I'm comfortable, I plan to secure the top to my table saw and use the my TS fence to align the template. I understand some say the router does not have to be parallel with my TS fence but what the heck, I might as well make it parallel. I plan to cut a lot of dadoes and I would think parallel might be an advantage.

The lift company recommends a template and Whiteside router bit, 5/8" diameter, 1/2" cutter length, 1/4" shank. Some questions that come to mind. Does Whiteside make decent bits or is there another brand that I should begin my collection with and stick to that company? Will I be able to use that bit for other templates? Should I just buy my first template ($12.00) that corresponds with the router lift as it is already cut to the tolerance of the aluminum plate? Thanks.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Whiteside is on of the top brands. There are several good companies. I buy alot of sommerfeld bits. I will usually get the 1/2" shank first as they are & stronger & tend to vibrate less. I have 1/4" shanks also in the smaller profiles. I have different brands in the collection. You will find other projects to reuse the bits you buy.

There is plenty of info here with pictures on routing out your top for a plate. If you are going to make the top from scratch I would use 2 pieces of 3/4" mdf or equevelant to keep the top from sagging. You could also buy the template for the plate you are going to install. Its only $12.00 as you say. It's true you fence does not have to be square to the table as the bits are round. So you fence depth always comes off the center of the bit not squareness of the table. 

The fence for my tables can be adjusted parallel to the table or moved from a pivot pin. I usually use the pivot pin to adjust fence depth.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Whether you buy the template or fashion something yourself is a matter of choice. I bought one, since it was my first time and would do it again if I was starting now. With some experience under my belt I'd take a different approach. Others are correct that you can do it yourself with 4 straight pieces of wood but after spending a couple hundred on materials for my top I didn't want to make my first mistake there. When that top went in just perfectly it was a great confidence-builder. 

There are different philosophies on purchasing bits. Some schools of thought tell you to buy cheap bits and replace them as they go dull or get burnt (from being oveheated). Others ascribe to "buy the best you can afford". 

+1 on Whiteside being one of the best brands; about half of my bits are Whiteside and they're what I buy when going mail-order. The balance are Bosch, Porter-Cable and others I picked up locally when I needed a quick bit and that was all that's available. One of the 1/4" PCs died pretty quickly and some of the others are getting duller but so far the Whiteside have maintained their cut even after much more use than the others.

Your mileage may vary.

Be careful not to take multiple cuts to get to depth. The first cut should be very shallow (I use +/- 1/8") to shear the top fibers of the wood. Then take several cuts to get to depth, with each never exceeding the diameter or the bit (or shank, if it is smaller). Make the final cut shallow also, to get a smooth finish.

One excellant piece of advice I was given when I started here that I'd like to pass on is that most people new to routers under-feed the router through the wood. When you underfeed the bit the cutter scrapes rather than cuts and generates a lot of heat, which can ruin the bit through overheating. You may need to conciously feed a bit faster than your instinct tells you to get a good cut.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just my 2 cents 

Router bits are like drill bits, if you push a 1/16" drill bit into a 1/2" steel stock it will not last long,,use the right tool for the job I can't tell you how many times I have use a small bit and then the next size bigger..

If you make a buck with your router buy the best if not buy what you can,it's a good chance you will not use them over and over...I have router bits that are 15 years old and have only used them one time..aging it's like the drill bit index thing..you can't use them if you don't have one the right size...

That's a real key word ( right size ) for router the bits as well..many will say make many cuts,I say put in a bigger router bit if you want a bigger profile..drill bit thing..

If you want a nice clean cut made the 1st.and last pass with .010 cut...this will cut the wood fibers off clean..even with the lower end bits..if it's worth doing it's worth doing it right and taking your time to do just that..


====


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks for the great info. I'm going to order the template and the Whiteside bit suggested for that template. I definitely don't want to screw up the top. I plan to make a practice run with the template on some scrap. Seems they only have the bit in 1/4" shank although, I would like to get it in 1/2". I will make the cuts as instructed. As for the feed speed, I'm not shy, so I will keep the router moving.

I do plan on using two 3/4" MDF panels for the table and laminate it with Formica. Any suggestion if the lower layer needs to be cut larger than the router lift plate so it's not an 1 1/2" thick at the router or can I leave full thickness and just cut the thickness of the plate? Also, should I rough cut the opening of the template with a jig saw leaving about 1/2" and use a guide bushing to clean the inside cut before making the rabbet cut for the plate or just leave the inside cut rough? How wide should the optimum plate support rabbet be?


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

After you route out for the plate. Instructions should come with template or plate you use. If plate is aluminum they are usually 1/4" thick. Plastic, phenolic they should be at least 3/8" thick. That should be the depth. When done you will have about 3/8" to 1/2" in width for the plate to sit on. Then you can take a jig saw & cutout the very center so your router mounts directly to the plate. There is more info with picture on this site to get an idea of procedure.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

That's a sweet gift !


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Here's some links to some router table builds.

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/17212-wanted-pictures-your-table.html

http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5103-router-table-cabinet.html

http://www.routerforums.com/axlmyks-stuff/5103-router-table-cabinet.html


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

Duane867 said:


> That's a sweet gift !


Thanks, Duane. I agree. It took a lot of hints and honey-do's.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

jlord said:


> Here's some links to some router table builds.
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/17212-wanted-pictures-your-table.html
> 
> ...


James, thank you. These threads really were helpful. AxlMyk's photos and write-up was just what I needed. I'm still a little confused about guide bushings but understand the concept. The actual cut is a few days off as I'm still building the top. Of course, the ball and chain has a lot of other holiday decoration ideas which she has put my router table way down on the list. :nono: 

Sometimes, they just don't understand.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

I got my template for the lift. This template is setup for a flush cut. Recommended was a 5/8" diameter, top bearing, flush cut bit. I bought one as I'm sure it can be used in the future. I checked out a few threads to see how others did their cut. I'm not familiar with guides and have never used one. I could easily mark the inside cut out with many methods I've used in the past and then cut with a jigsaw but I would like to try and cut it with my router. I do have a router mounted in my table saw extension but never used it much as it was a PITA to adjust it vertically. Hence the reason for the lift and hope that the router becomes a more useful tool for me. Dust collection is also a feature I will be adding as my router use in the past loaded an area with a lot of chips and dust and it was a tough place to clean thus also taking some of my enthusiasm out of my router use. I'm also comfortable plunge routing to make the cut but would have to use my PC 690 instead of my PC 7518 as I don't have a plunge base for the latter. I could use the 7518 but out perhaps drill a hole for the bit first.

Limited instructions came with the lift and I guess since they recommended the 5/8" flush cut bit, the plan is the plate is supported with a 5/8" in lip. Is that the case? Or should I make the cutout at say 1/2" or less from the template by using a guide and bit? Also, if I wanted to cut 1/2" inside the template does it make sense to rout this cut through an 1 1/2" of MDF and Formica? A cut this thick is why I'm thinking jigsaw or precutting the bottom piece of MDF before glue up. Suggestions???


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Crabman said:


> Thanks, Duane. I agree. It took a lot of hints and honey-do's.


My hints and honey-do's get me more honey-do's.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Crabman said:


> I got my template for the lift. This template is setup for a flush cut. Recommended was a 5/8" diameter, top bearing, flush cut bit. I bought one as I'm sure it can be used in the future. I checked out a few threads to see how others did their cut. I'm not familiar with guides and have never used one. I could easily mark the inside cut out with many methods I've used in the past and then cut with a jigsaw but I would like to try and cut it with my router. I do have a router mounted in my table saw extension but never used it much as it was a PITA to adjust it vertically. Hence the reason for the lift and hope that the router becomes a more useful tool for me. Dust collection is also a feature I will be adding as my router use in the past loaded an area with a lot of chips and dust and it was a tough place to clean thus also taking some of my enthusiasm out of my router use. I'm also comfortable plunge routing to make the cut but would have to use my PC 690 instead of my PC 7518 as I don't have a plunge base for the latter. I could use the 7518 but out perhaps drill a hole for the bit first.
> 
> Limited instructions came with the lift and I guess since they recommended the 5/8" flush cut bit, the plan is the plate is supported with a 5/8" in lip. Is that the case? Or should I make the cutout at say 1/2" or less from the template by using a guide and bit? Also, if I wanted to cut 1/2" inside the template does it make sense to rout this cut through an 1 1/2" of MDF and Formica? A cut this thick is why I'm thinking jigsaw or precutting the bottom piece of MDF before glue up. Suggestions???



I think with a template you essentially just use it to make the shoulder of the rabbit the plate sits in and then you use a jig saw to cut the center section out. I have never used a plate template though so I could be wrong but that seems to make sense to me ?

Here are the directions for a Rockler plate template :

1. Securely attach template with two
faced tape or clamps. Make sure
clamps clear router base.
2. Using pattern bit (33536), rout a
groove the depth of plate around
perimeter of template. If using
leveling and locking hardware, rout
approximately 1/8" deeper than plate
thickness including corner areas.
4. Drill 1/2” holes for jig saw access.
5. Using jig saw and straight edge, cut
away inner portion leaving corners
and 1/2” shoulder.
6. Insert router plate to locate and mark
position of plate locking screws (2).
7. Drill holes as follows:
11/32” for 1/4”-20 threaded inserts (2)
11/64” for plate leveling screws (8)
8. Install threaded inserts from
top side and leveling screws from bottom
side.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

Duane, the jigsaw seems to be the way to me too but I figure I would throw this out. I've seen other threads where the MDF inside the shoulder was routed. Seems like it would be a deep cut.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

It can be done either way, Todd. The through-hole isn't seen except when the plate is removed, so many use the jig saw. Others place a shim inside the template to offset the bit towards the center for the lip they want. Others like me, who are an*l.. er, an engineer...  do theirs with oversized guides and a different base plate in a plunge router but it requires a bit more investment. That's $$$ that could go towards bits.


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I just laid my plate down traced it, measured and laid out my rabbit, cut it out with a jig saw, then just used a straight edge to ride the router against making the rabbit. I was careful to stop on my marks and all was good. Its much easier then it sounds.  Its only MDF. It wont exactly take off on you. To find the correct depth place your plate on the table, then the router on top of the plate. Lower the bit until it barely touches the surface of the table, lock it in and you have the perfect height. Or if you want to use levelers make it an 1/8" deeper.


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## Crabman (Nov 29, 2009)

BigJimAK said:


> It can be done either way, Todd. The through-hole isn't seen except when the plate is removed, so many use the jig saw. Others place a shim inside the template to offset the bit towards the center for the lip they want. Others like me, who are an*l.. er, an engineer...  do theirs with oversized guides and a different base plate in a plunge router but it requires a bit more investment. That's $$$ that could go towards bits.


As both you and Duane said the jigsaw would certainly seem to be the easiest. Unfortunately, I sometimes like to over complicate the project to try something new. I have a large 1/2" shank, 1/2" diameter, 2" double fluted carbide cutter. As I said earlier, I'm not familiar with using guide bushing and I don't even know if they make one to cut inside a 1/2" rabbet. If I figured it right, wouldn't that be a 1 1/2" bushing?

As I said, I understand this inner cut won't be seen and it is only MDF but I have found, cutting through something that thick with a jigsaw, it would wander a bit. Friends of mine would constantly have "suggestions" how I could have done it better. If I'm reading you right Jim, you said I could just move the template to clean it up. I see where this would work. I have the large bit. I guess, I could also tape a couple pieces of 1x to the table top so I could have a complete template with positive stops. I think this is what Duane is suggesting. What and where do I get this double stick tape. I've used thick double stick from HD, if that the stuff? It's fairly thick and pricey but if that's it, that's it.

Thank you both for keeping me thinking of the best way possible.


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## sparky1945 (Dec 9, 2009)

I built two router table tops out of 1 1/8 sub flooring. One side is pretty smooth and sagging is not a problem. The first one was on the table saw but I also built a frame out of angle iron and ran an extra set of legs for support and put wheels on so it would move with the table saw. The second one was a router table with some drawers for storage. I made it to fit a Jointech fence I purchased.

Sparky1945


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