# What is a good table saw blade



## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

I've been using the Diablo blades by Freud for a while but am finding the 10x50 tooth combo blade I recently added for my table saw is burning the wood regardless of feed speed or even wood species. My guess is that particular blade is a 'dog'. It is very sharp - it just doesn't do a good job cutting wood without scorching. Unfortunately, that saw gets close to 100% of any ripping work and with a bunch of oak coming up for a kitchen remodel, am looking for a recommendation for a dedicated thin kerf rip blade. I have other good blades that need sharpening, but there is a lack of shops locally that will do a good job - the two nearby guys have missharpened several already so I end up buying new


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

IC31 said:


> I've been using the Diablo blades by Freud for a while but am finding the 10x50 tooth combo blade I recently added for my table saw is burning the wood regardless of feed speed or even wood species. My guess is that particular blade is a 'dog'. It is very sharp - it just doesn't do a good job cutting wood without scorching. Unfortunately, that saw gets close to 100% of any ripping work and with a bunch of oak coming up for a kitchen remodel, am looking for a recommendation for a dedicated thin kerf rip blade. I have other good blades that need sharpening, but there is a lack of shops locally that will do a good job - the two nearby guys have missharpened several already so I end up buying new


1. What would help is to find a good professional saw shop... #1 priority for you.

2. Savings is going to get a quality blade that starts out good. One that stays sharp when sharp and has a lot of meat to the teeth so it can be resharpened more times to that same quality.

I prefer industrial quality blades. They can handle some abuse and keep ticking. They are made to be resharpened again and again. Even Frued has an Industrial line that is better than their Diablo's.

I really like Royce/Ayer's and Damar. Both can be spendy... but they are very, very, very, high quality blades and over the long run, with the total life of the blades, they end up saving me money. That quality saves me time and effort. That also saves me money. They stay sharp for a long time and when they do need to be resharpened, the shop I use just takes off what they need to... and they have a lot of resharpening's in them. 

But if you don't have someone you trust to resharpen your blades, then buy cheap blades and recycle them when they get dull. A good saw shop you can trust is that important to me.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mike - I have a couple of industrial quality Freuds and a very good Skarpaz along with other various makes for my TS, RAS and miter saw gathering dust in a drawer . The Freuds and Skarpaz were resharpened and are worse then they were before spending a bunch of bucks. I've considered sending a couple to Forrest, but the on-line comments about their quality in the past couple of years seems to have slipped. They usually attend the local wood show in March and talking with the guy last year at their display didn't give me a good feeling. So what has happened is that I look at reviews on-line and try to make a best choice and just buy mid line and new. That Diablo wasn't one of my better choices. There used to be a guy near my home that did a great job. Unfortunately he was elderly and the inevitable happened. I'll look at the ones you mentioned, but quite frankly, may just do as you suggested. It's frustrating to spend 50-75 bucks or even more for a tool, use it a while then chuck it in the junk drawer with the others and hope someone eventually appears that can sharpen it right.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

IC31 said:


> ...and hope someone eventually appears that can sharpen it right.


What region of the US? Thinking I or someone near you- could recommend who they've had good experience with... or mailed to. One or more blades for a test to see how they do.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Dave if you have any cabinet making shops around I would go and ask them where they send their blades. They will know where to send them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*NY: Recommendations needed*



MAFoElffen said:


> What region of the US? Thinking I or someone near you- could recommend who they've had good experience with... or mailed to. One or more blades for a test to see how they do.


Mike, Dave's profile says Upstate NY.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Mike, Dave's profile says Upstate NY.


Yep, near Saratoga. I like to define to others that I'm nowhere near NY City

There is a stair shop nearby, but will take a look for a cabinet shop as well then see if they will talk to me.


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## woodworker352 (Mar 19, 2012)

Before I gave up on the blade, if you think it is sharp, I would push a piece of wood thru the saw at a even speed without using the guide fence to see if it burns the wood. I have found two factors that cause burning is too slow a feed speed or the guide fence not square with the blade. Just a suggestion.


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## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

I installed an Irwin Marples 50T Combination blade on my Table Saw and have been impressed with the cut quality. Smooth as glass with no scorching. Find them at Lowe's for ~ $40 and give one a try.


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Hi Dave
Two things come to mind. The first is make absolutlely certain that your blade and fence are properly aligned. The second is that a thin kerf blade needs to have a stabilizer regardless of what adds or people may say. I even use them on my standard blades on both cabinet saws.
Dennis


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I had a similar problem finding a sharpening service. I found a great service here by looking under "Grinding" not sharpening. Near Saratoga I goggled the following company.
Hudson River Grinding
Corporate Office
22 Lea Ave Waterford, NY 12188
Phone (518) 237-6416


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

I won some Marples blades and they were pretty good. Still, on resharpening...

Dave-
Hudson, NY is not to far from you is it? Not saying that I've dealt with them personally, but they have been around for 45 years, so someone around there must have dealt with them before (you would think):
Dinosaw.com - Sharpening - Refurbishing - Manufacture of Cutting Tools, Saw Blades, Bandsaws, Industrial Knives, Inserts, Router Bits Solid Carbide ,Carbide Tipped and PCD


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## BOjr (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm a Forest Blade user. I've used them for years and have never been disappointed. I send the blades to Forest for resharpening. They're fast and the price is reasonable.

I have to agree with some of the previous comments. Before purchasing a new blade I would check the miter slot and fence to make sure that they are dead on paralell to the blade. If they aren't it can take some time to correct the situation but it is time well spent.

Buck


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

I'm not an experienced cabinet maker but sometime back bought a Freud thin kerf fusion blade and have had good luck with it. I don't know if that blade is in the category of what are referred to "Good Blades" or not. I bought it because I was having some burning when ripping 3/4" cherry. The blade does not burn cherry as long as the feed rate is failrly fast. I do use a stabilizer but only one as when I started into the area of interest I didn't know about using two. The results that I am getting with the single stabilizer are such that I have not seen a need for the second one, and I am pretty picky about such things. 

What I'd like t know is what other members have to say about that blade and if they have good things to say or not, you might want to consider it. I did pay $80 for it and don't know how that compares to the commercial blades mentioned in this thread. The Forrest blades that I use cost close to $120 and they have served me well for four years, but I have nothing to compare them to. My shop is not a commercial shop so the blades are not used on a continuous basis as would be required in a commercial shop. I say all of this in my attempt to learn more about what more experienced woodworker's opinions are about the subject. I have never tried to have a blade sharpened, so far, most of what I have heard about sharpening has been negative.

Jerry


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

OK - let me respond to the alignment items - the fence is a better then decent Delta T2 30" replacement for the broken JET clunker that came with the saw. It has been carefully aligned occasionally using a dial .0001 indicator. While never 100% .000, is usually well within a very few thousandths of the blade and the miter track. I usually have a Forrest stabilizer on the spindle, but it's on the radial arm saw at present. I do have a link belt on the motor/spindle instead of a standard drive belt - what a difference that made!!!. Speed - I have tried about every possible through put speed from a simple loafing to 'shoving' wood through as fast as it could cut. Loaf speed is worse for burns as expected, fast, poor cutting quality. 

What, and of course only my opinion and from using that saw for about 18 years, is that there is a big difference in blades and how they are sharpened, the type of blade design (ATB, FTG and so on along with tooth rake), the stuff you can occasionally over think about:yes4:

I'll take a look in Lowe's at the Marples blades. The last blade I bought in Lowe's was a closeout Hitachi that worked very nicely on the RAS

Hudson is about 50 or so miles South of me and a real pain to get to - you have to go through Albany which is _never_ fun. The place in Waterford is close(<10 miles) and will be worth a look and maybe a trial blade.

This has been a good discussion. Thanks for the help.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I use a Freud LM75R010 10-Inch by 30t TCG 5/8-Inch Arbor Glue Line Rip Saw Blade and have nice results with it. I also had problems with fence alignment causing burning. I now use a digital gauge to do the alignment with and almost never have a problem unless I feed too slowly or pause for some reason during the cut. There may also be a slight misalignment of the table's miter slots, which would require slight movement of the table itself to align with the blade. However, before I change the top alignment, I'd want to deal with any runout (blade bent) first because you don't want to adjust to a bad blade. If other blades cut OK, the top is likely not the problem. I have my fence out from perfect parallel with the blade by a few thousandths, not enough to really notice, but enough to relieve any pressure on the workpiece as it exits the blade. That was a suggestion I found is a couple of my books on table saws, and it helped. This blade I mentioned has a 5 star rating on Amazon. I'm not quite ready to pony up for Forrest blades, but I bet they're sweet. I suspect your blade could also not be quite flat, or something is between the blade and the arbor flange and or washer. Have you cleaned the blade and the flange? Any of these things could be involved. You sure got a lot of good answers to your question.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dave; further to the previous comments by Dennis and Charles, in previous threads there's been a lot of discussion about having a shim on the infeed side of the fence, so that once the material has passed the blade it has a minute bit of relief... ie no chance of binding. This was primarily to prevent kickback but it also stops the cut from being closed back up. The above assumes of course that there's something behind the blade to keep the kerf open (riving knife or the vertical fin on the blade guard).

Mike (MAFoELFFEN) did a great description of his alignment procedure, and again, there was a lot of commenting re tolerances and techniques. Maybe someone bookmarked those threads?
Before spending any more money on blades, rechecking all your alignment tolerances (with a gauge), loose hardware, wear on bearings, belts etc. might save you a lot of aggravation, in case something has changed?


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Reading the original post, the blade itself may not be the problem. The burning could be caused by pitch build up on the blade, and will need cleaning. It could also be caused by your fence alignment. If you have the fence perfectly perpendicular to blade, or even ever so slightly pinching in on the blade, it will cause burning. I was given a recommendation a few years ago to align the fence so that the back of it is very slight away from the blade. This will not affect the quality of the cut but will go a long way to prevent burning.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Last year when I built the moving wheeled stand, I went through the saw, disassembling about all I could, doing a major clean up, component inspection and full realignment of whatever I could. I've rechecked the fence to blade within the past couple of months. But with all that said, think I'll give it another look and clean, check and realign everything again just to make sure that something hasn't slipped. The JET IB is one step away from useless so everything was trial and error but seemed to work. Even though I scorched it a bit, I did a 4' long rip of some 1/2" poplar and end to end, there is little or no variation in width. BUT, will still give it another look. I like the idea of a wee bit more relief that would go with the splitter (not a riving knife) which means that I'll need to add a sacrificial board to the fence and something I should already be using anyhow, but have been reluctant to add a permanent one. As far as pitch on the blade, yep, that will cause heat and right now, there is a little, but unfortunately that particular blade scorched when brand new. 

I'll stop in Lowe's tomorrow. The local store has Irwin's 10x50 tooth Marple combo blades so I may just become a new owner of one, using it only after I check the saw 'tune'.

Just as a note, I just did a couple of cuts with my 10x80T Diablo miter saw blade - and that was beyond slick. Oh well.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm not an expert by any measurement--but when i quit using combination blades my work got a lot easier and better. For ripping--i've been using a 24 tooth Diablo rip blade (i have their glue line rip that i put on for special occasions). My main crosscut blade is a 60 tooth Freud Industrial. I use Trend Bit & Blade cleaner on a regular basis as well. It can remove thick pitch with some effort, but i have found that when i'm done cutting i can unplug the saw, raise the blade, moisten a folded shop towel and clean the outer 2" or so in a minute +/-. 

I probably have a few new or lightly used combo blades somewhere--but i don't care if i ever find them again (unless i cut some wood that might have screws/metal in it--at least i wouldn't trash a rip blade on it).

Best of luck.

earl


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

To be honest, I use the $20 Irwin Industrial Tools 14070 Monarch combination blades from Amazon. It cuts better than my Freud blades by far. When they get dull I pitch them and order another. I bought the first one on a whim, because of the price and the reviews. We do not get any burning on my old Grizzly saw, ripping, or on long crosscuts. We use a lot of poplar and red oak along with ply, MDF, and hardboard. They are worth a try.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dave; I caught your comment re the link belt (especially the "!!!" part  )
There was a recent thread here concerning a TS with a double belt that needed upgrading. The subject of using a linkbelt came up.
How much improvement to you notice when _you_ switched to a linkbelt? More torque at the blade? Less vibration I'm guessing?
Please post a bit of a review for others (like me) who are sitting on the fence about switching over. 
If more power is transferred that'd be a relatively cheap upgrade compared to buying a larger motor, eh?


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

I attended the woodworkers shop in Springfield, Ma last weekend, Jerry Cole was giving a demonstration on his table saw sled and saw blade. He cut a piece of Cherry and stopped for 15 seconds and it did not burn the Cherry. I bought his saw blade-Ridge Carbide Tool Co from Lyndhurst, NJ. It is a 10" 48T I have re sawed Maple and cut Walnut and it is the best blade I have ever used. No burning. I cut many pieces at 22 1/2 and 15 degrees and they came out perfect. 800-443-0992 is the number. He has a video at www.in-lineindustries.com but I haven't watched it yet.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Dave; I caught your comment re the link belt (especially the "!!!" part  )
> There was a recent thread here concerning a TS with a double belt that needed upgrading. The subject of using a linkbelt came up.
> How much improvement to you notice when _you_ switched to a linkbelt? More torque at the blade? Less vibration I'm guessing?
> Please post a bit of a review for others (like me) who are sitting on the fence about switching over.
> If more power is transferred that'd be a relatively cheap upgrade compared to buying a larger motor, eh?


Dan - it took a saw that was literally bouncing up and down and turned it into super smooth tool. Recall that my saw is a good brand contractor saw, a JET JTS-10. It was supplied with the 'standard' foreign made 'V' belt that was junk. I replaced it with an American* made Gates, same dimensions, which helped it considerably. Next, and since I wasn't totally happy with that, then added the Forrest stabilizer as well as the link belt. Wow. Then about 2003, I purchased the RAS and eventually moved the stabilizer to that saw to smooth things out. Pulling that stabilizer from the TS didn't hurt a thing. Still smooth. Then the noise factor - probably cut it by 1/3. Torque - it currently has a 1 Hp motor rescued from an old Sears compressor instead of the original 2Hp which had to be sent out for a cooling fan repair. That Sears motor is probably an honest 1Hp vs the 'rated' Hp of today's motors. With a sharp blade, it can easily rip a 2x, cross cut what ever fits. 

Now, the question - am I happy with the link belt drive - you bet!!!

* My apologies to those from Canada and other Commonwealth as well as EU nations. All I'm trying to do is differntiate between 'western made' vs a large Asian country with often less then quality products:laugh:


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Knot working said:


> I attended the woodworkers shop in Springfield, Ma last weekend, Jerry Cole was giving a demonstration on his table saw sled and saw blade. He cut a piece of Cherry and stopped for 15 seconds and it did not burn the Cherry. I bought his saw blade-Ridge Carbide Tool Co from Lyndhurst, NJ. It is a 10" 48T I have re sawed Maple and cut Walnut and it is the best blade I have ever used. No burning. I cut many pieces at 22 1/2 and 15 degrees and they came out perfect. 800-443-0992 is the number. He has a video at www.in-lineindustries.com but I haven't watched it yet.


Larry - I've seen that Ridge display both at Springfield and Saratoga and probably even have a catalog somewhere but just haven't considered one of their blades for some unknown reason - most likely because I can't buy one locally. ows the next weekend) This year I just couldn't make the Big E - Springfield show.


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

*link belts*



DaninVan said:


> Dave; I caught your comment re the link belt (especially the "!!!" part  )
> There was a recent thread here concerning a TS with a double belt that needed upgrading. The subject of using a linkbelt came up.
> How much improvement to you notice when _you_ switched to a linkbelt? More torque at the blade? Less vibration I'm guessing?
> Please post a bit of a review for others (like me) who are sitting on the fence about switching over.
> If more power is transferred that'd be a relatively cheap upgrade compared to buying a larger motor, eh?


I use link belt on my TS. (contractor) It greatly reduced vibration. Not sure on torque increase. but if less energy is being expended on vibration it probably does. BTW HF sells good ones.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dave-
You are looking for blades for your Table Saw right? One thing I just caught... Every so occasional post, you also keep mentioning your RAS. Then you mentioned rake and hook angle.

When you fist said both, I past over it. But now that you keep mentioning... I have to say it. Think of those just basically as the angle of the teeth and how they work with and against the work it's cutting. That angle, needed _differently_ for RAS and Miter saws is _different_ than for a Table Saw. That hook angle is aggressively negative on table saws... and less negative to slightly positive on RAS and Miter saws.

I mentioned before that my panel saw uses both 10" and 12" blades on the main arbor... My local Woodcraft does not have 12" blades that I can use on it. My local stores do no have 12" "finish" blades that I can just walk in and grab. Most 12" finish blades in box stores (and others) are for RAS and Miters Saws... For that matter, MOST "finish blades are for RAS and Miter Saws.

If you use the same finish blades, which those negative hook teeth in a table saw... it's harder to feed the work into the blade and often the work burns. I could feel that on my shop and cabinet saws. I can really feel that on the panel saw, with the sliding table. Look for yourself, next time you look at blades on a rack, in a store. Look at the blades top to bottom, then notice the angle of the teeth... Just because it is a finish blade, does not mean that those tooth angles need to be a positive angle... Want to see a difference? Walk in to Sears and look at the difference in teeth angle of the basic Sears brand finish blades and the high end Craftsman Finish Blades... then look at what tools they are intended for.

Some blades have little pictures (or actually say)-- for the tools they are intended to be used with... Stop and look at those some time. It will be a learning experience. You want to learn more? Go to a cabinet shop and ask them about the blades they use and why. (If you are so inclined.) ...and sometimes a piece of curly grained Maple, Ironwood or even plywood can be more of a challenge than Cherry to cut smooth and cleanly.

So yes, you could over think those kinds of things. But even with everything "set" right... Some things do make a difference. Some things do matter. You don't have to obsess on those things, but they do help.

Found that Dan:
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/38609-adventures-table-saw-tuning.html


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Everything Mike said including in the link about tuning. I used to see a guy at the woodworking shows here named Dave Wooland who made and sold an aftermarket fence among other things. He would show up at a new show and go out and buy a bottom of the line Trademaster bench saw and use it to show off his accessories (and then sell it at the end of the show). At one point in his demonstration he would be ripping a board, cover it with a newspaper, let it go and continue with sales pitch. He never once had it bind, burn, or kickback. I talked to him about it when I bought a fence off him and this is what he told me. 
When he started setting the saw up before the show he said he would spend as much as an hour with a dial gauge truing the blade up and the blade to table. There was a stiffener that Lee Valley sold with 6 set screws in it for getting absolute true and he may have been using one. But he also said that he used a top of the line saw blade and I think it was a Forrester. 

I've tried the $20 to $50 blades and they are functional but not good. I did get a thin kerf from Freud for about $60 that has been pretty good. But if you want really good performance you are going to have to spend a $100 or probably more. Those blades have better plates, better carbide, and the expansion slots are better engineered. As long as you can find a good sharpening service, in my opinion they will give you much better service in the long run.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dan - thanks for some additional good information words. FWIW, I do look at what is printed on the package and generally know what a particular blade is to be used for before I plunk down my dollars. The D1050X is the problem blade and is a 'combo blade' which is what I've always sucessfully used on that saw. The D1060X in the RAS and the D1080X in the miter saw are for all intents, cross cut saw blades. The RAS and miter saws are, and in my opinion, virtually the same thing in that the cut comes from the top, regardless of the slide or chop action (my miter saw predates the popularity of the sliding types). These blades were purchased for those specific saws with the D1060 and 1080 both doing an excellent job. I did stop at Lowe's this morning and for 'only' about $40 purchased an Irwin Marples 50T combo saw blade. I'm going to check the 'tune' on that JET saw, adjust whatever is needed besides a cleaning then try a piece of cherry then maple, oak and whatever else I have in my stash of odd ball woods though it will be a day or so - gotta do my car thing for my '31 Ford street rod, which also vies for my discretionary fun bucks:yes4::yes4:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dave; I think it was _ Mike_ that added the blade info(?). Above my pay grade...


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Dave; I think it was _ Mike_ that added the blade info(?). Above my pay grade...


Oh well, not a big deal. Others may read this tome and get smarter. I sure have. Mike - sorry if I put the wrong moniker to my response:bad:

(Pay grade? Hrumph. At least you have one)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

IC31 said:


> Oh well, not a big deal. Others may read this tome and get smarter. I sure have. Mike - sorry if I put the wrong moniker to my response:bad:
> 
> (Pay grade? Hrumph. At least you have one)


LOL!!! No worries. As long as the info helps someone, right? 

After I tune... Then I have a 36 long 3/4 square piece of steel key stock that I keep handy. That way I can put that in the miter slot, slide the fence to it to check if it's true... Then I put in a miter gauge, adjust/slide it's fence on it to/against the rear of the blade, slide the gauge to front the front of the blade, then spin the blade. That's my daily, less-than 30 second pre-flight checklist. You can check the true of the blade and the rip fence. I generally kick the back of my rip fence out 0.02mm in 27". As long as it's out between 0 and that' I'm happy.

A lot of that you can see in the cut and when it spins down. Or at least, that's what I notice.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Oh... I have some spendy, over $200 12" blades, but that's not what I use for general stuff. But even though I've been doing this for a while, I still tend to be picky what I use "those" for.

*** To tell the inside "other side" of the story on that... ***

I have a hand full of old 10" HSS 40 tooth blades that "I" resharpen myself that cut like a Ginsu knives. I use them a whole lot. They were really inexpensive. Since they were so inexpensive, they were the blades I learned on to resharpen saw blades. I wasn't afraid to mess those up!!! They're so old, I really couldn't tell you who made them (no markings left). I think I grabbed them off a resharpening/trade-your-old-blade-in rack. I think they where about $10-12. (My more expensive blades, I send out... to someone lots better than I.)

The secret to that is just like Charles explained... If your saw is in tune, the blade the right type for what you are using it for and is sharp... You should be good to go. If your saw is in tune and the blade is a little "off" but still sharp... I've got good cuts with them, but just a little wider kerfs. (depending on how far it's out.) 

BUT-- If your saw is off and you have a sharp blade... your blades are not going to stay sharp long. (Big Period) and you are going to get burning.
---
This spring I should drag my jobsite saw out and post some cuts from it... It is, what? A bottom of the line Ryobi bench saw that I put in a collapsible stand. I don't care = It's job is to be light weight... _then_ to make cuts on jobsites. It is in tune and cuts like glass... But it does not stay in tune for as long as my other saws - so I have to keep checking it.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Well I'll take any dope slap alongside my head that is necessary. I made up a new checking device this morning and the fence to the miter slots is within real life needs at .002" to .003". The blade itself is flat within a couple thousandths too. Where it gets really sad - the miter slot to blade - gulp, gasp - is .033" to .035" or open approximately 1/32nd inch at the out feed side. So much for holding 'tune' for a year plus. I'll give it a really good cleanup and make my adjustment - and while I think that particular blade is a dog, leaving some scarf markings as well as scorches (which may go away) will give it one more trial run just because I can. I'll then install the Marples, get a couple of my other blades sharpened (assuming one of those suggested does good work) and see what transpires.

Again, good discussion. I've know learned quite a bit and hope others looking on did as well.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

After suffering my dope slap and surviving, did a saw tune up. The JET saw blade to miter slot adjustment is not very intuitive but I was able to figure it out after a while. Normally I would assume that loosening the trunnion assembly and moving it would be the way to go. It isn't (been over a year since the last and CRS had set in). There are 2 bars that go out of adjustment. These have large nuts along with a couple of smaller set screws that need to be loosened then those two bars 'twisted' for no better term until they are parallel to each other. This is quite easy to do, but a little movement is a lot at the blade so it does take some time. I went from about .000 to .032"-.035" to my final setting of .000 to.004"-.006" infeed side of the blade to the outfeed side using the miter slot. Additionally, I have moved the miter slot to fence to less then .002 one end to the other. I also adjusted the miter square which most likely been dropped too many times. It's now pretty dang close using my new good machinists square. The next trial was to cut a piece of similar wood that had been scorched with the Diablo blade. Much less, but some still evident. I installed the new Marples blade - no burn marks at all.
*
This is my set up for checking run out:*

*
...and the homemade tool with the slot adapter I used for the miter slot:*


*....the adjusting bars:*


The dust has since been cleaned out.

Thanks for the help and ideas all of you folks gave me.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dave--

Even on my Cabinet saws, I do that cheaper... 
- You have a miter gauge? (hopefully, one that can be adjusted snug in the miter slot.) 
- You have anything magnetic that you can clamp to the fence of that miter gauge? (I use a piece of angle iron with a piece of tape over it.)
I use a magnetic mount to that...

Then when I pick out a point of the blade (usually the highest point, closest to the dial indicator... I mark that point "on" the blade with a marking pen. I let that dry...

That is my reference point on the blade. That way when you move back and forth in the miter slot, you spin the blade until your reference mark is under your dial indicator. That way it takes out anything from the blade or arbor being out any, out of your equation. 

Tell the truth, I'll loosen one trunion side and move the other, front or rear, depending which side is furthest from the left miter and how the trunions are sitting already. (You can't move something that is at the limit of it's travel already...) The first attempt/time/step, I'll just get them close and not worry about it much. Because when you tilt the blade to 45* and check those marks again to see how much you might need to shim (front or rear)... if you have to add or remove shims, that's going to change and you are going to reset the parallel again anyways. All that is my post that was linked. Those two settings are a balance and adjusting each can affect each other.

If the blade it is off "any" from being a perfect 0.000 (<-- That is the goal, but not ever going to happen, so...) from the left miter, let it be off a positive amount (out/left) to the rear, kicked any amount away from the fence. That way, as the work goes rearward, it isn't squeezed against the fence. If the fence is off any, I also purposely make that kicked out from the blade at the rear... Better to let both those get looser as you go back <> than tighter. Just always smarter and safer to let that happen...

Like I said previous in this thread, a sharp wobbly blade will cut like a wobble dado. It'll cut, somewhat rough, wider kerf... but since the kerf is wider than the rest of the blade, it doesn't tend to burn. If a blade is off from center, the work scuffs on the trialing edge of the blade, burning.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Dave, something you may want to check since you have your gear set up is that Diablo blade. Put it on the arbor and rotate it in small increments and check the dial gauge reading and see if it is warped. If it has gotten too hot it might be in which case it is either junk or the blade you will keep around for sawing dirty boards or ones that might have a nail or brad in it.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

In regard to what Mike said about adjusting the back of the blade out slightly or the fence inward. The bearings on the arbor have to have some freeplay. Zero freeplay will burn them out in no time at all. All the tech manuals I've read for adjusting bearings recommended .002 to .006" freeplay. This means that when you start sawing, if the trunnion is to the right of the blade, the back of the blade will move slightly from left to right. You see the effect of this when you are ripping and the cut is nice and smooth until you have to stop and get a new grip where it leaves saw marks and then smooths out when you start again. If you are getting saw marks on the fence side of the cut then you need to either move the back of the blade away from the fence or the fence away from the blade as Mike suggested. Everything perfectly parallel may not work.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Mike - I can see where you can make a cabinet saw a lot better as far as setting adjustments for blade to miter slots. But recalling that what I have is a JET JTS10 which is at least 25 model years old and my ownership (purchased new as a left over) being 20 years, that there is only so much that can be adjusted until you reach the limits of sanity as well as the saw's adjustment. I can only access one end of those trunnion bars, the infeed end being pretty well hidden by the outer skin of the unit and the rack and pinions for lowering and angling. The way that I've left it is that it is 'open' as you suggested more by chance then choice. As far as setting it up at an angle - I think the rule of diminishing returns sets in when I try that exercise. I can see what you have said, but .....

As far as the miter and its bar, it is a clunker that I've modified with #8 or #10 set screws in the side for tightening clearances. It also has a steel bar I've bolted on top for the dial indicator mag base. I was just not very happy with that clap trap set up so I put what I show together for a few bucks. 

Charles - that blade is pretty true as installed on the saw arbor. Probably no more then a mil or a bit more which really surprised me. Freud puts a coating on their Diablo blades that's probably to make it slicker. It is kind of nubbly (just made that word up) with that blade being the worst of the three Diablo's.

Free play (clearance) - now there is a subject that I'm getting deep into with an automobile engine. The max spec on automobile journals is .001" per inch of diameter. These are babbited rather then roller or ball bearings with an oil flooded condition while running. An arbor such as a table saw would have a roller or more likely a permanently lubed ball bearing. As far as axial or radial movement with a shaft probably no more then 3/4" (for that 5/8" hole in the saw blade), I would expect to see .0005 -.001 max. Getting up to that .006 mentioned you are really in slop. For comparison, the auto engine that I'm getting to dislike is supposed to have a desired clearance on a 2.086 journal about .0005 to .0015 with .0025 the max. I think the 'scarf's' that you see on a piece of wood after you change grip on it are probably from saw blade deflection instead of bearing looseness.

Phew!!!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dave; if I learned one thing from this thread it's 'don't take anything for granted'.
I don't remember if I previously commented on an annoying but easily fixed glitch on a new Bosch circ. saw I bought. I should start off by saying that the response I got from Bosch was _everything that a Customer Service Dept should be. Bouquets to the folks at Bosch._

Anyway, they designed a simple little 'blip' in the foot plate that unfortunately they hadn't noticed lined up exactly with the locking lever on the quadrant adj, This innocuous little metal (maybe an 1/8"+) moulding prevented the plate from swinging into a perfect 90deg. cut. I only noticed it because I gave a neighbour a hand cutting two -1 1/4" thick slabs to make a butt joined ctrtop. Needless to say the 'V' shaped butt wasn't very helpful for gluing.
With their blessing, I filed it off and am now extremely pleased with the saw's performance. Mod.C10 ...highly recommended (other than the blip).

Incidentally, I bought it to use exclusively for breaking down plywood; thanks to all the members here who've recommended that process!!


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

Dan - If you mean CS10, it sure doesn't have good reviews on AMAZON**. I'm currently waiting on the release of their new cordless drivers. My 5 year old Bosch has a worn out chuck and so far no one including the local rep can get the LH thread set screw out so it can be replaced though I'm about to try my big impact gun.

**Bosch CS10 7-1/4-Inch 15 Amp Circular Saw - Amazon.com

I hope yours is a good one!!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

IC31 said:


> Charles - that blade is pretty true as installed on the saw arbor. Probably no more then a mil or a bit more which really surprised me. Freud puts a coating on their Diablo blades that's probably to make it slicker. It is kind of nubbly (just made that word up) with that blade being the worst of the three Diablo's.
> 
> Free play (clearance) - now there is a subject that I'm getting deep into with an automobile engine. The max spec on automobile journals is .001" per inch of diameter. These are babbited rather then roller or ball bearings with an oil flooded condition while running. An arbor such as a table saw would have a roller or more likely a permanently lubed ball bearing. As far as axial or radial movement with a shaft probably no more then 3/4" (for that 5/8" hole in the saw blade), I would expect to see .0005 -.001 max. Getting up to that .006 mentioned you are really in slop. For comparison, the auto engine that I'm getting to dislike is supposed to have a desired clearance on a 2.086 journal about .0005 to .0015 with .0025 the max. I think the 'scarf's' that you see on a piece of wood after you change grip on it are probably from saw blade deflection instead of bearing looseness.
> 
> Phew!!!


I thought the blade might be worth checking. If it has burned wood before it could have gotten hot enough to warp. I know cause I ruined one once that way. Babbit bearings use flood lubrication in a car and in older systems like bandsaw or sawmill bearings used a drip cup system running at much slower rpm and are a totally different animal than roller or ball. In a car motor there has to be just enough space to allow a few molecules of oil in and be flushed out quickly before they get hot and break down into varnish, carbon, etc.

I owned a John Deere skidder for 30 years and over time I repaired almost every part in it with the aid of a tech manual. Every bearing in it had the same adjustment procedure. Install the bearing with all the same shims, torque the holding nut to required torque setting and then pry the shaft back and forth to see if there was from .002 to .006" movement. If not, add or remove shims and try again. I've never found a bearing of the same type that that procedure didn't apply to. You right though, some of what I described is from saw blade deflection.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

IC31 said:


> Dan - If you mean CS10, it sure doesn't have good reviews on AMAZON**. I'm currently waiting on the release of their new cordless drivers. My 5 year old Bosch has a worn out chuck and so far no one including the local rep can get the LH thread set screw out so it can be replaced though I'm about to try my big impact gun.
> 
> **Bosch CS10 7-1/4-Inch 15 Amp Circular Saw - Amazon.com
> 
> I hope yours is a good one!!


Ahhhh!!! I can't hear you, I can't hear you :fie:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Dave; I read the reviews and I think the comments re the composite based unit in the picture, Mod. CS*20*, account for most of the complaints. the others sound like they were encountering the same problem with the saw not bottoming out in the quadrant (Mod. CS*10* )because of that annoying blip in the foot casting. The last reviewer, 'Dave N.' did a very fair summation.
I love this little saw...so far.


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

For price I came across some blades at Lowes Irwin Marples I seen good reviews in some woodworking magazines. For $38 can't beat them.


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

I've found with AMAZON a whole family of products occasionally get lumped together and carry over from one part number to another. I'm still am happy with my 40 or so year old aluminum and steel Craftsman that I inheirited from my dad (along with a couple light duty clunks)


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

IC31 said:


> Mike - I can see where you can make a cabinet saw a lot better as far as setting adjustments for blade to miter slots. But recalling that what I have is a JET JTS10 which is at least 25 model years old...


LMAO!!! Remember I have to tune my jobsite TS more often? It's as old. It's a Ryobi BTS10: http://www.ryobitools.com/product_manual/file_url/125/BTS10_910_eng.pdf

It takes a tune... It just doesn't keep that tune as long as my other saws. I _understand_. And I have used a Jet JTS10 on jobsites.

On Marples TS Blades... I won a set of Marples TS blades in an Irwin Tool Contest (Along with a Marples Wood Chisel set). They were free (I won them), but... darn it, I like them anyways. I was very surprised. I probably wouldn't have gone out and bought them, just to try them out... But now that I have used them, I would recommend them to others. They are surprisingly good blades, especially for the price they are asking for them!!! I reviewed them on this forum.


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