# Second project, lessons learned



## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I started my second project today since I got the new table saw and router/table combo.

I wanted to make a small cabinet like thing to hold my clamps. I had seen a picture of one I liked and used that basic design as inspiration. Just a top, a bottom, a shelf that goes 2/3rds of the way across about 4"-6" from the top to attach the clamps too and the three uprights. I decided to modify it by adding 
several small shelves on the open side.

Lessons learned

Don't buy extra cheap plywood even though you are just learning. I thought I would save my wife a few bucks and asked Her to look for cheaper plywood than I had been using. Also asked Her to get 1/2" instead of the 3/4".

When checking to see if a brad nail missed the board remove your finger before shooting the next nail.

Wait for help putting it together if you need it.

The 1/2" plywood cost about half of what I had been using so She bought me two sheets of it. Had it cut down to 2' x 4' as normal to make it easier to carry around since She has to do it for me and also because the truck is only a short box and since other things are normally bought during the trip She likes to make sure the box can be shut.

The plywood was cupping when she brought me in two pieces of it to make the clamp cabinet. I decided to go ahead and cut anyways as I thought that it would be okay once I cut it and started to put things together and got some nails, glue or screws into it. Time one I should have waited for help.

Got it all cut up quickly, since I had actually done a cut list this time things went smoothly and with less waste than the storage cabinet with doors (still need to post pics of it with the finished doors). Routed the dado for the clamp shelf, did some rabbits for the top and bottom. All seemed fine so far.

Decided to clamp it up and started by my self (cabinet is 4' high, 2' wide and 8" deep with the clamp shelf 4" and the other shelves cut to fit on the other side, almost 8"x8". Should have waited for help.  dropped more clamps and pieces of wood on my leg or the floor in a short time then every before.

Finally waited for Her to come help. Got it clamped enough to start nailing...decided to skip glue. Sides bowed terrible...so decided to go from 2 shelves on other side to 5 to help stiffen it...cut them, waited for help again.

All clamped. Time to nail. Used to 3/4" plywood...more nails missed the boards than hit it I think  Did the above mentioned forget to move finger after checking and put about 1/2" of a brad nail under my left forefinger nail  Continued, got the clamp shelf in and 3 of the side shelves. Still super bowed out on clamp side and some on small shelf side.  Decided to cut some strips to back it. Thought I had measured it to be 24" across...so grabbed 24" long scrap that was about 16" wide. Cut it into 4 pieces. Brought over to the box, turned it around and went to nail it into place...about 1/4" to 1/2" short...figured I could just split the difference and leave a bit on each side. Nailed in top and bottom back....Did next two attaching it so sides, middle and a shelf for each one...stood it up....still not sturdy 

Opened back door, placed project outside so didn't have to see it. She came done and asked about it. Told Her to look at it and see if it was something She wanted in Her house even if only down in the basement where hardly any one goes. She went outside, said no. I asked if She had any ideas on fixing it. She said yes, don't use the cheap 1/2" plywood  Said She would go back to buying me the 3/4" stuff even though 1/2 to 1/3 more in price.

She told me to take it apart. So I did. Found out some brad nails really don't want to come out. Found out others will break into pieces when pulling them. Did learn plywood comes apart nicely when a chisel is hit between the layers.


Ended up with most pieces usable for other stuff and only a few pieces that have to turn into firewood for my Mom and Dad. Besides the cut up pieces (almost half a sheet used) still have 1.5 sheets left in the garage...guess Dad will get some more kindling.

At least I learned, which is what the projects now are for. Have to learn before the new house we are hoping to buy or build in about 1.5 years so I can do book shelves, garage cabinets and shelves and if I get good enough upstairs shelves and cabinets.

And also learned it is hard to type with a bandage on your forefinger cause a brad nail went into it on the other side of where it got cut with a utility knife 2 days before cause didn't have a wire stripper inside and not willing to wait until She got home from work to get me one.

Oh forgot about this part since the finger hurts enough I don't notice the other things...Even a rubber mallet can hurt if you miss. At least it was only a glancing blow.

Will get back at it and try to re-make the project out of 3/4" once the projects that were supposed to get done yesterday get done tonight (Her projects mainly, I am the helper) and once I get some more 3/4" plywood as I only have a 2'x4' sheet left plus the left overs from the storage cabinet...enough to make the 3 uprights and some of the shelves, but not the top and bottom pieces.

Might modify it and do some hand held dados with a guide set up for the router instead of only doing stuff on the router table or the table saw.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Derek I don't know whether to laugh or cry after reading this. I ran into issues building my clamp rack too. I discovered plywood was a better choice then solid wood for putting the slots in. The "tongues" kept braking off in the solid wood. My first rack was just a board with slots mounted to the wall. When I added the 17th clamp the whole thing came down with a nasty crash. Left a nasty hole in the wall as well. 
Hope your finger heals well. I'm sure the 3/4 ply will work a lot better


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## ShazL (Jan 21, 2010)

Oh Dear!!! That is the kind of result I am expecting from my first project...or I will blow up all the power tools.

Wishing you a speedy recovery...


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

My finger doesn't feel to bad now, been mainly just an annoyance the last 12 or so hours. Cleaned out the nail before I took a shower last night and it still had some dried out blood under it.  Touching it, even hard doesn't hurt most of the time. 

As for the clamp project I decided to modify it a bit. I grabbed 3 of the 4 3/4" pieces I had cut to stiffen up the last one, screwed 2 together and then the 3rd piece down into the other to leaving enough room to clamp onto. I didn't get it done because of several things happening at once...The drill battery died as I was putting in a screw, the level I needed to hang it was over at Her project and She was also calling down saying that supper, (very late that night) was going to be done any minute and I needed to come up and take my shower. This was Sunday night right after I had finished taking apart the other one.

Haven't been back downstairs since then as She worked too many hours Monday (13) and when She got home to finish up told me She would be too busy to help me do anything so I just stayed upstairs. Then last night She could have helped out when I needed her but I was sleeping all night (and day and the night before, common occurrence due to my physical problems and the pain pills I take) so didn't do anything then either.

So hopefully tonight when She comes home I will be able to work on stuff. It is Wednesday and tax season though, so my Dad will probably be by picking up and dropping off returns if they are using the same schedule as last year.

I don't do much working on things unless She is home or is going to be home soon as I am too worried about falling to be down stairs by myself. Not as worried about the power tools as I am extremely careful (skipping the two finger incidents last week) when using the table saw and router and the other power tools. Now, falling that just happens.  

I just took a look at your clamp cabinet, CanuckGal, it looks very nice. I think I might talk to Her about switching to something like that instead of what I was doing. Am still going to do the 3 piece solution for temp storage as the other way I had been storing them on 2 2"x4"s with pvc pipes in between them and a 3rd 2"x4" as a bottom plate so it stood up kind of like an A. Main problem with that is She decided to put it on top of the downstairs fridge and I can't get to it most of the time and She has twice had clamps fall off of it hitting Her and another time when I opened the door to get some water the base 2x4 slipped off the top and started to slide into the opening between the frame and the door.  Has to be one of the quicker stand ups from me in the last 20 yrs or so.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Finally finished off my first project tonight and got the cabinet doors on and then hung on the wall.

Doors look terrible, but it is my first time trying to do a rail and stile door...so terrible isn't so bad as long as the center doesn't fall off  I do need to get the proper router bits to do this, but with the dust collection purchase coming this weekend I think it will be a while until She buys me anymore woodworking tools.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Thanks all, for the post! If it helps, I have been there, and done that more than once to get the lesson. It sounds as though you are much smarter than i was, because i am dutch, and find it very hard to spend any extra for a better grade, or the proper grade. I think i have it now  since it has been many years since i learned. (I am 64) and still hard headed, and i still still pench pennies, Now i wait until i can have help getting it home. I seen myself more than once. Thanks! Enjoy the forum!


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

My mother taught my wife how to shop back while we were still dating. My mother used to be an extremely frugal shopper yet we had pong not long after it came out and the same with the Atari 2600 and all of the LED hand-held games. So things are normally bought after price has come down a bit or the product has been out a while. One of the problems of these lessons was what it did to my paychecks.  The one time I was supposed to be laid off for 2 weeks over Christmas but I ended up getting hired by the sandblasting contractor that was doing the work that was the reason I got laid off (wanted me there during the night shift when the place was empty except for us. Should have gotten paid by my normal employer as they wanted me there, but only got the 5 bucks a hour the sandblasting company paid me). 12-18 hours days, She was up here for a lot of it doing after Christmas sales with my mother.

The plywood She was buying before was around $25 at home depot. This last stuff was around $15 or so and I can't remember if it was HD or Menards...We did both stores that night with a second trip to one of them I think. I was sleeping most of the time so not sure. Just remember She got me the 2 combination squares I wanted and the 2 sheets of plywood. Whole bunch of that plywood is now in the scrap box waiting for my dad. Hoping that there is some time left after the harbor freight trip tonight to get a dust collector leaves enough time to get some more 3/4" plywood as I want to try that clamp cabinet again and I have plans for a small paint cabinet over the door to the garage from the basement. The frame my father-in-law built for the door is 6"-8" inside the basement and with our 8'+ ceilings it will make a nice spot for one.

Sure hope I can do better on the doors this time around  Going to be a while until I get a rail and stile bit set so have to improvise. It has to be better than the last set of doors as it is hard to do worse 

The main reason I am getting the dust collector is because it is on sale for $179 and She has a 20% off coupon too. That and allergies (Hers).


Addition to Post

12am friday night/saturday morning... just got back from running errands
Bad news....no dust collector for this house today. HF was out of stock. Should have one in on Tuesday.
Good news...She found a coupon to get it for $139 plus has the 20% off coupon, both good until May I think She said.

She did get me a lot of other stuff like 4 more corner clamps, some more quick clamps and a bunch of other stuff that totaled up to $150 (some stuff for Her).


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Derek,

Even if you stayed with the 1/2" ply, always look for "Birch" or "cabinet grade" ply. Much better material than the norm. 

I'm with Howard, I've been there and done that too.... I think we all have at one time.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I think that the good birch or cabinet grade stuff would probably be a waste of money at this point in time. I am still learning how to do most everything. Lots of book knowledge, little practical experience. So because of that the thought of buying one sheet of plywood for $50-60 or more bugs my wife a lot more than buying me two sheets of $20-25 plywood. 

One side of the 3/4" (or some slightly smaller fraction) She is buying is good. I think She said sanded. Not sure of the grade as the the one time I got to actually go into the store I ran out of time as they closed at 9pm, not the 10pm I was used to them closing at back when I was a bit more mobile and could handle making the trip by myself, just needed to bring the ramp to load and unload the scooter. I wish I would have a little bit more time over in the lumber section to pick out some stuff for Her to buy for future use.

Even then I rarely went out in the winter time as too easy to fall down. Now that my joints are worse She has to help me do the loading of the scooter and even has to do the majority of the work. :sad: Bad downfall for a guy who just 2-3 years ago could load the scooter up into the pickup without a ramp if necessary . Used to think nothing of going to the store as if it was the two of us She normally helped me lift it up onto the pickup or rarely helped use the ramp (She dislikes the ramp because of the space it takes up making it hard to put the things She bought into the truck without climbing into the bed). 

Now it is so hard that I have only been into Menards or Home Depot once since September or October. That trip was Menards, this last one was Home Depot. I have never been able to go into Harbor Freight on the trips that we have made there. :sad: That fall trip to Menards we had to have one of the younger guys working there help load the scooter back into the truck :help:


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Derek,,, sounds to me like you have a wonderful wife *S*, a great attitude and a sound approach. I'm looking forward to learning from you!!!


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## fasttruck860 (Feb 18, 2008)

Derek usually sanded/ cabinet grade plywood is AC grade. That is what I used on my clamp rack.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Derek,,, sounds to me like you have a wonderful wife *S*, a great attitude and a sound approach. I'm looking forward to learning from you!!!


I couldn't do without Her and not just because I am disabled. It is everything else too. I fell down just 4 months after we were married and finished off my left hip and have been unable to work except for 6 weeks since then (chronic pain, other bad leg joints) and we have now been married 22+ years and together 25+. Which to me seems very long right now as right after we started dating Her parents had their 25th anniversary and that seemed like forever back then (I was only 19, Her 18) and just last last December they had their 50th.

Even back before I fell I knew I had some one special and there was no way I was letting Her go. I bought a brand new car just over 3 months after we started dating. It was a stick shift and She didn't know how to drive a stick shift. We spent the weekend in the parking lot area behind ShopKo or some other store with Her learning how to drive the car. If we made it through that, we can make it through anything.  

I had been asking Her to marry me even before then and it took from late Nov 1984 (only took me a couple of weeks to be sure) until Feb 1987 to wear Her down until She said yes. Though She and the two mothers pulled a fast one on me. I thought we were going to get married in Oct 1988...we got married in Oct 1987 instead  

Plus She wouldn't return the promise ring I had bought with the understanding the store would give me credit when She came into pick out Her engagement ring that weekend. What little did I know that the no-nonsense girl I had dated turned into a woman who loves rings.  At least She agrees with me that diamonds, except for engagement/wedding rings, are too expensive.

Now as to learning, I think it will normally be from my mistakes 

She = Vicki...just figure more than important enough to me to deserve a capital letter even when using a pronoun.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

fasttruck860 said:


> Derek usually sanded/ cabinet grade plywood is AC grade. That is what I used on my clamp rack.


Thank you. I had read some website that talked about both number and letter grades which confused me as I thought plywood had only letter grades. I will try to remember to ask what grade this latest stuff is.

As for a clamp rack, the 3 board quickie I built after the other one turned out to be a disaster, is full. So I need to build a new one. Most of my clamps are of the plastic with metal bar quick clamp style and just a couple of long bar clamps and 8 corner clamps.

This last trip to Harbor Freight almost doubled my quick clamp collection. It would have done more than double if I hadn't just gotten a 4 pack of Irwin clamps during the time I got to go into Home Depot.

I am going to build a very simple 5 piece magazine rack for the back of a bathroom cabinet door hopefully today and then attempt to make another clamp rack out of the new 3/4" plywood. This time before putting it together hopefully I remember to run the outside edges across the router to round them off. If things succeed will post a thread with pictures...if not, will post about my failures again. Sure hope no more injuries.  :nono:


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

On plywood grading, in the cabinet suppliers wood stores they also sell A-B and A-A grade veneer plywood, with "A" being clear and no patches. The price spirals upward there. I bought some B-C grade maple veneer ply from my local shop to get some cabinet making experience making shop cabinets. The 3/4" B-C was $60 for a 4x8 sheet; they wanted $110 per sheet for the A-A.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

I didn't know they hand made plywood in AK..WOW :dirol::dance3:, you need to get a U-Haul truck/trailer and pickup some plywood in the states and resale it..on craigslist.org and make a ton of money.. 


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BigJimAK said:


> On plywood grading, in the cabinet suppliers wood stores they also sell A-B and A-A grade veneer plywood, with "A" being clear and no patches. The price spirals upward there. I bought some B-C grade maple veneer ply from my local shop to get some cabinet making experience making shop cabinets. The 3/4" B-C was $60 for a 4x8 sheet; they wanted $110 per sheet for the A-A.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I thought there were some that got up in the $50-60 range (maybe more, I am kind of short riding my scooter :lazy at the two stores I check (Menards, Hope Depot). 

There is some Oak I am thinking about getting this week. Have to apply for their credit card to get the rebate though. Menards.com - Home has the last 4 ads up to look at. 3/4" - 4' x 8' Red Oak Hardwood Plywood * C4 grade, sanded Oak face and hardwood back 125-1799 Regular Price $38.99. Sale Price $31.99. 10% Rebate* -$3.20. TOTAL SAVINGS $10.20! is what I am thinking of getting. I think it might be worth it for just under $30 a sheet. The pic below was from one of the last couple of ads...it had prices in it when I got it at home.

I thought we had gotten the 1/2" plywood I didn't like at menards but found out that we didn't. They aren't set up to cut it up for you and She likes to get it in 2'x4' sheets so they are easier to carry. Come summer time we might go back to bringing home the whole sheet and using the circular saw and the 8' straight edge to cut it down if I need larger stuff, but right now having it cut into 4 sheets is working out pretty good. Either one of us can carry it and I can even manage to handle it while sitting down on the scooter or the stool.

As for my project today. I made a little magazine rack for the back of a bathroom cabinet door today. The plans (not really used) called for 1/2" and 1/4" but I modified under instructions from Her to just use 1/4" and also added a larger bottom to it as the bottom in the plans made it look like magazines could fall through very easy. Only 3 pieces of about 1"x14" 1/4" plywood and 3 pieces 2.5"x14" 1/4" plywood. I say plan, but it was only a jpg I got from some site that showed the dimensions of the pieces and where to put the dados. I even rounded over the edges. I did through cuts and stuck the ends out of the sides. Is clamped up gluing now, will take a picture after I am told it is done...not sure if I will be told to stain it, poly it or just put wax on it. Still haven't figured out how to attach it to the back of the door. :help:


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I think that had You built Your own plywood, It would have been better that some of the junk that is being sold there about a year ago. I haven't bought it for a long time.Sorry about Your problems, I have been disabled for about that long, I miss being able to do the things that i liked, No ,more boat, or steel head fishing, Oh well. Have fun, and You do have a good wife, for sure.


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## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Derek,

I feel for you after that story, but as said by others, we have all been there at one time or another. I just wonder whether you have considered using some other kind of platters than cheap plywood with a pine or fir grain. Even for shop stuff Melamine covered chipboard platters for example can be handy. and you can combine them with some solid wood pieces where strength is needed. The Melamine wears well and you don't have to use time or money painting. MDF has a lot of applications too in a similar manner. They can be painted or just use poly finish. Watch out for dangerous dust with the MDF though. 

A lot of my cabinets and storage units etc. in my shop are just recycled platters that have been painted. The same for my big router table which is some ex wall platters combined with cheap pine framing, and then painted. (see my gallery for pics). Are you working from a wheel chair?


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Stefang said:


> Hi Derek,
> 
> I feel for you after that story, but as said by others, we have all been there at one time or another. I just wonder whether you have considered using some other kind of platters than cheap plywood with a pine or fir grain. Even for shop stuff Melamine covered chipboard platters for example can be handy. and you can combine them with some solid wood pieces where strength is needed. The Melamine wears well and you don't have to use time or money painting. MDF has a lot of applications too in a similar manner. They can be painted or just use poly finish. Watch out for dangerous dust with the MDF though.


The dust is why I haven't built my new router table yet. I was younger and less aware 5-7 years ago when did the routing in mdf before. At least I did it outside. I am waiting for warmer weather to route the melamine with mdf center outside. All the melamine I can find around here has the mdf center. As long as I stick to the decent 3/4" I am doing pretty good and only paying $25 a sheet I think...not sure as it is always Her doing the actual buying. We discussed why we bought the cheaper stuff and it was me who talked Her into it, instead of Her just buying cheaper stuff like I thought it was at first...She just had to remind me of the conversation.



> A lot of my cabinets and storage units etc. in my shop are just recycled platters that have been painted. The same for my big router table which is some ex wall platters combined with cheap pine framing, and then painted. (see my gallery for pics).


I have some thin wall board panels left over from a bathroom project that won't be used when we do ever finish the bathroom. I am thinking of framing around the dust collector and just nailing or screwing those to the 2x4's. Might use some of it if I make a cabinet under the router table too.

She also found some stuff called Hardboard in with those panels. I can't remember if it is 1/8" or 1/4", but it is very sturdy stuff and what I have might get used as the backs of some stuff.



> Are you working from a wheel chair?


Not used a wheel chair much since 1997 or 1998. Thats when I went to a scooter from a manual wheel chair. Tried using the wheel chair off and on, even about 8 years ago when I broke my leg. My rear (and the rest of me) grew too large for it.  

Right now I am just waiting for tax season to end and warm weather. Then my Wife will have time to help me purchase a new scooter (or power wheelchair) and jump through all of the insurance hoops. My best scooter left running right now hasn't worked since I got to go to the store the last time  It got really wet on the way home and it is the one that once it got really wet needed to dry out completely ever since we got it. Since it is winter I normally only go to the doctor or to relatives so I can get along squeezing into the wheelchair, using a walker or being assisted by some one.

Come warm, decent weather I also have a golf cart that I drive around the yard and neighborhood. I finally got it last year right at the end of tax season. I was shopping around looking for deals on one to show my Wife after tax season was done and this deal was too good to wait. So I messaged her downstairs where She was doing taxes with my dad and both of them looked at it and said get it, so once he left She called and bought it. I think it is from 1986, not sure as no manual, but gave me tons of freedom that I hadn't experienced in years.

Most of this time I have been able to walk some what ok, just always at risk of falling down. The last few years I can hardly walk at all without assistance and some days not at all unless I have the walker and assistance.

I am a bit worried about buying the new scooter as this time I am on medicare and a supplement whereas before I was just on private insurance and the rules were different. I am just hoping I don't have to do lots of extra paperwork because of the change in insurance as there as plenty of medical records saying I can't and or shouldn't be walking.

I am having fun learning and that is what is important. Who knows how much I will be doing when I can get out of the house with the dogs for a couple of months, but with minnesota weather I know I will be back inside for several months straight again the next winter. Lots of ball tossing to catch up with for the younger dog as I don't even go outside with them, but just open the door and watch.


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## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

Hi Derek,

I know what you mean about Minnesota winters. I was born in Wisconsin and spent a year on my grandparents farm in Onamia Minn. during the war when my father and all my uncles were in the war. I am impressed that you able to do woodworking in spite of your physical problems. I think I would go crazy if I didn't have have this as a hobby too. I know a guy here in Norway who has been a professional wood turner for a number of years. He is totally confined to a wheel chair, but he manages to turn out a lot of stuff. He sell sells to rose painting artists, one who sells a lot of her work to the Epcot center at Disneyland in Florida. Enjoy you woodworking and don't forget to post some of your work when you get the opportunity.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I haven't had much work worth posting yet  The one cabinet at least got posted, the magazine rack not that I remember, the one to hold all the red and blue screw and misc boxes turned out almost as terrible as the clamp rack I tossed out and then took apart for scraps, and now the most ambitious one, a cabinet with 2 different sized in height,width, length, depth...any way possible to be different with the same top piece and the bottom of the second piece also doubling as the shelf of the larger cabinet is on hold until things get settled with sears and I have a working table saw again.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

As I have found the hard way, patience is the most important tool in wood working. I am trying to find out where to buy it wholesale.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I did just try to post pics, but got an error  Will try again tomorrow as I need to get into the shower now and watch last weeks Burn Notice with my Wife.


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