# Which biscuit joiner?



## tuffy1234 (Jun 4, 2014)

I'm looking for a biscuit joiner and would appreciate some advise on which one is best for my use. I will probably only use the tool once per year or less. Any suggestions?


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Chuck,

I have had a Porter Cable 557 plate joiner for a bunch of years. I don't use it often anymore, but it sure comes in handy when needed. The thing is built like a tank, and fun to use.

Fortunately for you, you can probably find a used one now that Norm Abrams is off the air, and the Kreg jig is becoming much more popular.

If you are only going to use it occasionaly, the Ryobi would work well, if you're willing to gamble, the HF joiner is the cheapest in town. Biscuit Joiner


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## tuffy1234 (Jun 4, 2014)

Thank you, Doug. I went to the website you suggested and downloaded the bench model deal. Will pick up a HF joiner the next time I'm in Salina.

CW


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

*size does matter*

Tuffy
Can I ask what your going to use it for first? I've had a Porter Cable first addition unit since they came out. Around 25 years ago. I buy tools I know will last most of the time.

If I was you I would buy a cutter based on what your going to use it for. Make sure the capacity you need is represented in the model your buying. The first problem I had to over come was that the biscuits were too large for the project I wanted to use them on. If your joining small or thin boards make sure the cutter can cut slots for small biscuits.

Al


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## tuffy1234 (Jun 4, 2014)

Al, I too enjoy the tools that I purchased 30-35 years ago. And some of the brand names would surprise you. But at 70, and in poor health, I tend to not put longevity as my no.1 priority. However you do make a good case on the size of biscuit needed. I hadn't thought of that. The project I'm working on requires the use of 1/2" stock and a thinner biscuit will be needed. Maybe I need to look on flea bay for a used one. Thank you.

CW


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

After a lot of research, I got the PC. It has served me very well. Accurate and precise.


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## IBUILD2 (Mar 27, 2014)

I have a pc and for the price it can't be beat.


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

Chuck,

Like you, I needed one for occasional use so I got the one from Harbor Freight and does the job. I have used it to make panels, doors and to attach a face frame to a bookcase. I purchase high quality tools for the ones I use often but go for budget on seldom used tools. I think I paid around $40 for it on sale and have had it for around 5 years now and it still works. 

Rich


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I have a PC but really don't use it that much. IMHO the only real good it does is help align the boards you are gluing together. The biscuit provides no strength, that is what the glue is for. If you are looking for additional strength look at some of the doweling systems or better yet use a mortise & tenon. If you are just gluing boards together make yourself a simple gluing rack from wood & clamps, use a joiner to get a good flat edge on the boards, cut the boards a little long and glue them up. They don't have to be perfectly aligned (they are cut long remember) so you can trim the ends to size after the glue dries. I've been in a lot of wood shops and never saw a plate joiner being used. Good luck,,,,,,,


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

You can do that with a router.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Have a Dewalt/Craftsman. It works well. If I were going to buy today, PC557, hands down.

That said I use my biscuit joiner only occasionally. However, the things I use it for I would not want to try and due with a router. Some, perhaps but certainly not all!


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## tuffy1234 (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for all the information. I've got so many choices to choose from.:dance3:

CW


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Agreed. Just offering options.


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## jimijimi (Jun 8, 2014)

I have the ryobi jm-100, 1 hp biscuit joiner. It comes in a stel case, stores well and is asolid, simple to use tool.3 different bisciut sizes, board thickness adj. And angle adj. Machined aluminum base so corrosion is not a major concern.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I have a DeWalt biscuit joiner and I'm quite happy with it. My previous joiner was a Ryobi and I had all kinds of trouble with it, mostly with the adjustable fence that always seemed to move, usually out of square, in the middle of a project. My DeWalt joiner has proven to be very reliable and has never gone out of adjustment during a project. I've had it now for about 12 years

A bit of advice for new biscuit users:

About 8 years ago I discovered a problem with using biscuits that has significantly reduced the number of biscuits that I use and where I use them. The problem occurs if you use biscuits to join boards to make flat panels and apply glue to both the biscuits and their slots as well as the board edges. The water based glues cause the biscuits to swell, which is great for keeping the boards lined up with each other during glue-up. The problem occurs if you begin finish sanding the panel before the moisture in the glue has had the chance to spread and achieve a balance in the wood, which can take as much as bbseveral weeks. If you go ahead and sand it too soon and get it perfectly flat to continue to build your project, the moisture from the glue has swollen the area of the boards around each biscuit and you will be removing this slight bump with the sanding process. After this moisture finally leaves the biscuit area this area will shrink and you will have a biscuit shaped dent in the surface your finished project. You will have a dent like this everywhere that you inserted a biscuit. The only recourse is to re-sand the panel surfaces until they are again flat and smooth.

I still use biscuits, but I've stopped gluing them into place. I now only glue the edges of the boards and insert the biscuits dry. They still help with board alignment and the glued board edges hold very well without putting any glue on the biscuits. Since going to dry biscuits I have never again had the biscuit shaped dents in my projects. 

Charley


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## Roefa (Sep 14, 2007)

Mine is a Porter Cable plate joiner (biscuit slot cutter)... it's well built and easy to use. Does perpendicular and angled cuts....very accurate and adjusts for different sized biscuits. I use it primarily for simplifying alignment on glue-ups. I usually buy better tools... especially power tools. This is a better value for my heirs. But for some hand tools and miscellaneous items, HF has some decent deals, too. Replacement part could be a problem with HF. I try to obtain a parts list for all of my power tools as soon as I buy them.
Best Wishes -
Roger Memphis


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## gary.story (May 3, 2014)

Don't want to upset anyone but I own a Ryobi and do not care for it. I tried different brand bicuits and the only way I can get them to work very well to line up boards is to soak them in water first. I contacted the company and they stood behind the product even sent me a new blade thinking it was to thick and cutting larger slot but that still did not help. Company said they are made that way. Just my opinion though.

Good luck


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Bob makes a good point. If they're butt joints, lots of _router_ options!
I always thought of biscuits as a production method.
Personally, I like splines. No particular reason other than that's the first technique I learned back in High school. (Back then, teachers were like Gods; whatever they said was like the 10 Commandments.  )


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

I have a Ryobi works well it is a forgiving joint you basically move it slightly until thing line up the way you want . I will say you have to mark and make sure you cut on same side as marked.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

gary.story said:


> Don't want to upset anyone but I own a Ryobi and do not care for it. I tried different brand bicuits and the only way I can get them to work very well to line up boards is to soak them in water first. I contacted the company and they stood behind the product even sent me a new blade thinking it was to thick and cutting larger slot but that still did not help. Company said they are made that way. Just my opinion though.
> 
> Good luck


Well Gary with all due respect that's how the biscuits are supposed to work. Ive never believed guys really were lining up boards on glue up with them. They are made to fit loose until the glue soaks in and makes them swell. That's why PC sells them in a sealed container. 

When I bought my unit 25 years ago. One of the selling points was that it would be easy to use even if the slots were cut less than perfect.

Al


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## Rick Turner (Sep 12, 2009)

I've had a Lemello "Top" since about 1981 and it's fantastic. The switch gave out, and I bypassed it and now use it with a foot switch and love it. Don't use it much anymore, but when I do, it gets the job done. I even did some exterior doors with it a long time ago using six to nine #20 biscuits to join stiles to rails, and the doors are going strong after 30 or more years.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

My first biscuit machine was a Lamello, for about $700.00. It was a heck of a machine. When the partnership dissolved, I bought a Freud. It wasn't the Laello, but it was competitive, at a fraction of the cost. Today, I have a PC and I use it at least once a month.

Every machine I had was worth the money I spent. If my PC died tomorrow, I'd be shopping for a replacement and my focus would be on trying to find another PC, but I'd settle.

If I were shopping, I'd look to pawn shops where I could get a steep discount.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Fascinating. I've been using biscuits to align two pieces of wood for nearly four decades.



Al B Thayer said:


> Well Gary with all due respect that's how the biscuits are supposed to work. Ive never believed guys really were lining up boards on glue up with them. They are made to fit loose until the glue soaks in and makes them swell. That's why PC sells them in a sealed container.
> 
> When I bought my unit 25 years ago. One of the selling points was that it would be easy to use even if the slots were cut less than perfect.
> 
> Al


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Oh, and, yes, I use a lot of spines too. A router could get the job done. What a novel idea for a router forum 




DaninVan said:


> Bob makes a good point. If they're butt joints, lots of _router_ options!
> I always thought of biscuits as a production method.
> Personally, I like splines. No particular reason other than that's the first technique I learned back in High school. (Back then, teachers were like Gods; whatever they said was like the 10 Commandments.  )


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## profetscient (Sep 24, 2004)

I have the Porter Cable jointer too with the two blades and it does a great job. I also have the Ryobi mini machine for very small projects.


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## casemarte (Dec 1, 2009)

*The best biscuit joiner*

If you're making a living with your tools go for the Lamello Top. It's precise and drives like a BMW. Mine is over 25 years old and operates like new. I've had Elu and PC joiners as backups but sold them both - no comparison to the Lamello.


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## wb8nbs (Apr 14, 2011)

I like the Porter Cable 557 (though I don't own one) because the handle is on the fence instead of the motor. It would be easier to hold the tool steady.

There is a Ryobi model that comes with a smaller blade. It would be useful for small projects if you can get the tiny biscuits that it requires.


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## Tensace (Dec 2, 2013)

*Dewalt*



tuffy1234 said:


> I'm looking for a biscuit joiner and would appreciate some advise on which one is best for my use. I will probably only use the tool once per year or less. Any suggestions?


I'm betting once you get a joiner you'll use it a lot more than once a year. They're kind of fun and a good way to use up scrap material using various woods. I have the Dewalt biscuit joiner (DW682) and have been very happy with it. I am new to woodworking so others may have better insights. Still, to date I've joined and built 2 benches, a table top, a corner shelf and a shelf over a coat hook rack. I've used and love the Kreg jig as well. They are complimentary. One doesn't necessarily replace the other, though often they can.


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## gary.story (May 3, 2014)

Al B Thayer said:


> Well Gary with all due respect that's how the biscuits are supposed to work. Ive never believed guys really were lining up boards on glue up with them. They are made to fit loose until the glue soaks in and makes them swell. That's why PC sells them in a sealed container.
> 
> When I bought my unit 25 years ago. One of the selling points was that it would be easy to use even if the slots were cut less than perfect.
> 
> Al


Thanks for pointing that out. If that is the case then I don't see much use for them because I have been told they do not add any strength to the joint and if they don't help with the alignment save the money and use splines as suggested earlier. BTW I don't use mine anymore I have been learning to use the spring joint. :dance3:


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## CeeJayBee (May 2, 2014)

I bought the Porter Cable 557 several years ago. I've found it sturdy and pretty straight forward to use. I too originally thought I'd use it only a few times a year, but after I got comfortable using it I found it invaluable for gluing up panels for table tops, making picture frames, etc.


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## Miggy (Jun 9, 2012)

I have a DeWalt biscuit joiner that I use a lot. I have installed over 4000 biscuits with it, almost all in hardwood. Problem with it is it easily and always plugs up with cuttings. Sometimes only after about six cuts. It is impossible to use it with the supplied chip collection bag.The only way I can use it is with a vacuum attached. Then it works well. I talked to a rep from DeWalt and was told to remove a piece of metal in the chute but this was to no avail. Because of this problem I would not recommend the DeWalt.


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

tuffy1234 said:


> i'm looking for a biscuit joiner and would appreciate some advise on which one is best for my use. I will probably only use the tool once per year or less. Any suggestions?


harbor freight!!!


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Attn: Miggy

Vic,

I removed that piece of metal from my DeWalt biscuit joiner right after I first got it. Sorry I didn't remember doing that until you brought the subject up. I think they put it there to keep fingers out of the chute, but it does cause significant clogging problems. It was easy to break out, but I had to file the bump that was left behind. I also realized that I was pushing (feeding) the blade into the cut a bit too fast and this was making long shredded strands of sawdust that tended to plug the chute easily. A slower feed rate solved this problem.

Charley


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## larry1592 (Sep 27, 2010)

I bought a HF one. Did not like it so I bought a Makita. I really like it. My next one will hopefully be a Festool!


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

*Precision does count*

Okay, to clear up some of the conflicting information in this thread:

#1 Biscuit joiners (no "T") join pieces of wood with a "loose fitting" plate or biscuit, which is loose only in the sense that it is not a traditional wedged or interlocked joint. It can easily be inserted and removed by hand for easy and rapid fitting, setup, and assembly, which ends very shortly after it comes into contact with the glue -- then it is a permanent blind tenon.

#2 Is great for aligning parts because it is a stopped, fence-guided cutter. This is why precision in manufacture really counts — poor tolerances make for poor fence position retention, alignment, and other settings. The good plate joiners are very accurate and simple, which = great results. This is the real difference between the good and bad models.

#3 Very fast. In my experience, it's much faster and more flexible in application than pocket screws; however, one MUST glue up a biscuit joint, whereas one could technically leave a pocket screw joint dry, and that means the glue drying time could become a consideration. The more biscuits/connections along the same work line, the faster this system goes, which is why it is a fabulous production tool.

#4 Very easy to setup/mark and execute. A subtle and hugely important part of this tool/process is that the layout is very forgiving and the execution is pretty forgiving too. Watch a YouTube video or 2 to see just how careless one can be and still achieve great results. The simplicity of the concept and execution means there is less opportunity for errors to propagate and compound.

#5 It is a strong joint when used appropriately. Like any piece of wood, plates have a strong direction (across the widest dimension) and a weak direction (across the thinnest dimension), so use it accordingly. If one needs more weak direction strength, then put down another line(s) of plates alongside the 1st line, similar to double tenons. This is not a miracle tool, so don’t expect a single 1/8” thick biscuit to keep your garden gate together when your 10-year old nephew starts swinging on it, duh.

#6 Use it anywhere you would use a spline by just cutting more plates along the same joint line. This type of joint is every bit as strong as a spline unless the male part of the spline is more than 1/4” thick. If the workpieces are hefty and could impart a lot of strain, then cut multiple lines of plates in, and you’ll have a crazy-strong joint.

#7 Use it like a tenon, but as the workpieces increase in dimension additional plates will need to be added like multiple tenons.

#8 Less likely to cause splits than a spline.

#9 Joints can be assembled and glued up without gluing the biscuit pockets.

#10 A great way to create fast and easy jigs, especially in MDF, and for shop boxes, cases, and fixtures. This is what I originally I bought my tool for.

#11 Use it instead of dados and rabbets for boxes — all the joints get to be butt joints . For bookcase type fabrication, this is the go-to tool and works great with hardwood, plywood, and MDF (need to be careful to use dry plate pockets in MDF to avoid blowouts from the plate swelling).

I looked at the FWW, Amazon, and Popular Woodworking reviews of biscuit joiners. The reviews covered Lamello (and another German brand), Makita, DeWalt, PC, HF, Freud, and Ryobi.

Distillation: #1 Lamello (and other German), #2 Porter Cable edged out DeWalt due to the clogging issue, #3 DeWalt, #4 Makita was close behind DeWalt, #5 everything else and not worth the money or frustration. The reviews placed the Porter Cable, DeWalt, and Makita all very close to each other, so the deciding factors were single strikes against, like the clogging or Makita's lack of a switch lock-on button (if my feeble memory serves me correctly). The PC has both of these problems resolved plus the most versatile fence and the presets for the small cutter. That said, biscuit joiners produce high volumes of chips in very rapid fashion, so the general consensus is to use a vac or be prepared to fuss with a clogged chute due either to poor chute design or because the collection bag has gotten filled enough to cause clogging.

I bought a very lightly used (2X) PC off Craigslist for $120 and have been utterly satisfied with it. I chose it due to the reviews I read and because I put my hands on and played with the PC, Makita, and Ryobi. PC does make a 2" blade for the smallest available biscuits, and some units came with this $40 blade. I suspect one might be able to get another tool's 2" cutter to work, as in a router's wing bit looks like a candidate for tool hacking, as does one of HF's baseboard cutting tool's cutters.

It's a good idea to go handle these and play with them, because these must be precisely machined and assembled in order to get satisfactory results. I have other PC tools, and their fit and finish were terribly disappointing for the cost, especially as compared to Makita’s tools, but in this case the PC plate joiner is quite well done. The Makita is a wonderfully smooth and precise tool, but wasn’t as well reviewed as the PC. The HF and Ryobi really are disappointing in fit & finish with more plastic parts, bigger tolerances, funky adjustments, and janky action — this is where I felt the differences in quality with my hands. I’m not a pro in a production setting so the Lamello was just a no-go.

The more I use my biscuit joiner, the more I like it and want to use it for other projects.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

I've owned a Lamello, Freud and now have a PC. The Lamello was a Rolls and the PC a Cadillac. I was happy with the Freud, but do like the PC better. I'd have gotten another Lamello, but as I geared down (I make sawdust for fun now, rather than profit), the hundreds more was better spent on other toys, uh, equipment.

I'd like to have a Domino, but have lived fine without it and the Lamello type price tag suggests I'll stay with biscuits, pocket holes and and and. . . .


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Straightlines: Wow, what a complete entry on biscuit joiners! Thanks, might brush the sawdust off my PC biscuit joiner more often.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Ditto--Great reply Bradley. To now i've been using a table mounted router--i may consider a dedicated joiner. Thanks!!

earl


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Tom, I am sure I must be in the "honeymoon stage" with my plate joiner, but they really are impressively flexible and useful. That said, I struggle with the aesthetics of a biscuit joint, which I almost consider a fake joint, versus traditional joints. This is why I tend to use this for low grade projects and jig-type things -- I save the difficult techniques for the nice stuff.

-- Bradley


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

gary.story said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. If that is the case then I don't see much use for them because I have been told they do not add any strength to the joint and if they don't help with the alignment save the money and use splines as suggested earlier. BTW I don't use mine anymore I have been learning to use the spring joint. :dance3:


But Gary they do add strength. Much more than dowels. Fine Woodworking built a dining chair with them and they have proved to add strength. I use them on projects that don't require a better or fancy joint.

Al


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

tuffy1234 said:


> I'm looking for a biscuit joiner and would appreciate some advise on which one is best for my use. I will probably only use the tool once per year or less. Any suggestions?


Lots of nice "I use / I have/ I like" info here... BUT I believe the key to answering your question is "once per year or less." Buy the HF when on sale or with a 25% coupon. Bag is pretty much useless. Add washers to guide adjust bolts and call it a day!:sold:


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

I have to back Al on the strength claim. For example, I built a thirty inch lazy Susan for an over-fridge cabinet. I didn't want to use that much plywood, so I butt jointed a couple pieces of scrap using biscuits. It's been a few years since then and my friend still uses the Susan with no problems.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

I'm a great fan of "I can't afford cheap." Sometimes because the cheap stuff is garbage (e.g., is not as accurate, not as well built, etc.). Other times because it can't do as much, or is more difficult to use.

In reality, I have many tools I only use occasionally. For example: 1) Professional soldering iron; 2) Professional pyrography iron; 3) Expensive framing hammer; 4) Power nail driver; 5) Assorted wrenches (plumbing, mechanical) and other automotive tools (i.e., specialty wrench for oxy sensor, code reader); 5) Battery 
charger; 6) Framing nailer; 7) Dripless caulk guns; 8) Twin cutter; 9) Worm drive (use the other three more); 10) Ladders, ladder jacks & offsets; 11) Airless; 12) 2hp tile saw; 13) [Extra] Clamps; 14) Airless sprayer with 100' of hose on a mounted reel; etc.

I may not use the airless for up to three or four years at a time, for example. When I do, I am very glad I have it. I don't have to rent one for a hundred a day and can save thousands by doing the work myself.

My tile saw is handy for cutting free granite discards into coffee or other tables, but I may only use it once a year. However, we found a deal on a few hundred square feet of nice granite and now our kitchen and dine room counter tops, window sills and back splash are granite, for about five hundred dollars, rather than seven thousand (okay, I had to use my variable speed angle grinder with diamond grind stones, router bits and polish pads too).

My point is, if you have a place to keep things and can afford them (all at once or over the years), you have fewer limitations of what you can do, can do things faster, often can do them better.

Often, you will find new or better equipment opens doors for you. Jumping from my old Craftsman band saw(s), which mostly collect dust, to a good quality unit mean, instead of using it only a few times a year, it became one of the primary tools in my shop and is on par with my cabinet saw (and that's another story too).

All these tools would have bought me a new car, even at their resale price. However, an old car and truck get me where I need to be, while the tools allow us to have things we, otherwise, could not afford.




mlwinnig said:


> Lots of nice "I use / I have/ I like" info here... BUT I believe the key to answering your question is "once per year or less." Buy the HF when on sale or with a 25% coupon. Bag is pretty much useless. Add washers to guide adjust bolts and call it a day!:sold:


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Straightlines, I'm just in awe of that post! Nicely done!

Picked up a second Triton TRA 001 for use out of the table (after deciding my former PC will likely not turn up again) and ordered a Milescraft Pantograph. Planning on some fun "free-hand" sign work!


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Bingo Kelly! I'll bet $$ that that is why most of us are such goofy tool nuts -- our tools provide us the means to produce things, save money, and be mentally and physically engaged.

As to choosing tools, there's an expression in construction: "You can have it cheap, you can have it fast, you can have it good ... pick which two of those options you want." This applies directly to selecting a new tool acquisition.

-- Bradley


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Thanks for the praise Marc; like most people, I struggle with some of my posting efforts but that one was fun and relatively easy to work up.

I hear your guidance that if the OP is only planning to use his prospective biscuit joiner 1X per year, then the HF might make more sense, but my experience leads me to a different conclusion: Because I have no workshop and have to work in my driveway and backyard, I have an accelerated program of inefficient project completion -- I have to bring out and set up the same tools each day/time I use them because I had to store them safely back under cover the night before. I spend a lot of my precious time fiddling, tweaking, and setting up aids and work-arounds, which can be quite frustrating.

Why does this matter? Well, because in many ways it's very similar to putting that biscuit joiner away for a year and then taking it out for use only to have to reeducate myself about the tool's idiosyncrasies and short-comings. It really isn't efficient, it is likely to cause me to waste wood as I rediscover the not-so-obvious failings of economically driven, poor design and manufacturing tolerances, and that adds up to a lot of frustration stemming from a decision to save about $60.

I too originally expected to put the biscuit joiner to use just 1 or 2 times per year, yet my PC biscuit joiner is a deliciously simple "point and shoot" tool that is changing my way of approaching woodworking. Now I seek opportunities to put it to use.

Last thing here, sorry: RE chip ejection, yes the vacuum is the best choice, but I can't always use a vac, and have to rely on the bag, so I would now say that clogging issues should be carefully considered.

-- Bradley


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## larry1592 (Sep 27, 2010)

You might stay away from HF. I had one and did not like it. I went with the Makita. Just my opinion.


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Straightlines said:


> Thanks for the praise Marc; like most people, I struggle with some of my posting efforts but that one was fun and relatively easy to work up.
> 
> I hear your guidance that if the OP is only planning to use his prospective biscuit joiner 1X per year, then the HF might make more sense, but my experience leads me to a different conclusion: Because I have no workshop and have to work in my driveway and backyard, I have an accelerated program of inefficient project completion -- I have to bring out and set up the same tools each day/time I use them because I had to store them safely back under cover the night before. I spend a lot of my precious time fiddling, tweaking, and setting up aids and work-arounds, which can be quite frustrating.
> 
> ...



I hear ya! I just pull it out, adjust thickness (if it has changed from last job) and do a few tests. Plunge away, glue and plug, clamp and move on.

But that's just me!


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Returning Triton... too big/heavy for Pantograph. Trying out $59 Ryobi...

Yes, I know. But it's small and light and cheap! Dust Collection? (What's that?, Ryobi says).


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Do ya have some other router for heavy work? If not, I'm betting that it won't be long before you miss that nice Triton -- I do like muscle in my router table. On my last project, a dust collector/separator, I got good results from my Roto-Zip and if you happened to have one or find one for cheap on Craigslist, I bet it would be an excellent choice for the Pantograph.


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Straightlines said:


> Do ya have some other router for heavy work? If not, I'm betting that it won't be long before you miss that nice Triton -- I do like muscle in my router table. On my last project, a dust collector/separator, I got good results from my Roto-Zip and if you happened to have one or find one for cheap on Craigslist, I bet it would be an excellent choice for the Pantograph.


Yes. Big Triton is in the table!


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Don't know if I missed it in all of the posts but another issue with biscuits is they are designed to swell from the moisture of the glue. So if you put them in a tight fitting slot and they do swell all the wood around them can swell too. I've seen them cause surface "bumps" on soft woods. I still think they are good for board alignment and nothing else. Wet one and lay it on a table and watch what happens. Just my opinion........


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Garyk said:


> Don't know if I missed it in all of the posts but another issue with biscuits is they are designed to swell from the moisture of the glue. So if you put them in a tight fitting slot and they do swell all the wood around them can swell too. I've seen them cause surface "bumps" on soft woods. I still think they are good for board alignment and nothing else. Wet one and lay it on a table and watch what happens. Just my opinion........


That's another reason a sloppy fit from my HF works great! :blink:


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

mlwinnig said:


> That's another reason a sloppy fit from my HF works great! :blink:


Ha! It must be part of the design. I bet it helps when you get sloppy measurements from that trusty tape measure too :sarcastic: Hey, what's an 1/16" here or there????


-- Bradley


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

Garyk said:


> Don't know if I missed it in all of the posts but another issue with biscuits is they are designed to swell from the moisture of the glue. So if you put them in a tight fitting slot and they do swell all the wood around them can swell too. I've seen them cause surface "bumps" on soft woods. I still think they are good for board alignment and nothing else. Wet one and lay it on a table and watch what happens. Just my opinion........


None of the machines cut a slot the same size as the biscuit. They can't be used for alignment. This is a myth told by guys that don't like them. 

Al


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## roofner (Aug 1, 2010)

Marc thats the beauty of the biscuit they are useful for alignment and the sloppy of the joint is you can move one way or the other to get the alignment you want.


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## Al B Thayer (Jun 2, 2014)

tuffy1234 said:


> I'm looking for a biscuit joiner and would appreciate some advise on which one is best for my use. I will probably only use the tool once per year or less. Any suggestions?


Yes that's how you and I understand it. But the myth is "aid in alignment". As in make the boards align better with rather than without. 

They also greatly increase the strength of the joint. Another aspect those that don't like them try to play down.

Me I rarely use them. But for someone less fortunate than me with less experience or in need of some strength without a lot of trouble. Why rain on their parade?

Al


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Al B Thayer said:


> But Gary they do add strength. Much more than dowels. Fine Woodworking built a dining chair with them and they have proved to add strength. I use them on projects that don't require a better or fancy joint.
> 
> Al


Sorry. I'm just a bit curious how you arrived at that conclusion? My experience tells me that biscuits are not at strong as dowels... Just real world physics and experience. But I agree that both help with alignment and add strength. Both are loose tenon's, as are Domino style tenons (which is generally stronger yet).

It's not that I like one over another. It's not that I don't do one or not the other. I do many varied joining techniques. Butt, pocket-hole, loose tenon, spline, mortise & tenon, etc... Each has it's use, time and place. If you make some test joints with different joining techniques, like I was taught and how I taught my apprentices... then tear them apart... You can see for yourself and make your own judgement on that...

Yet in some rare applications, you could make a joint weaker by adding a dowel or a biscuit. It depends on the application. No one joining technique is a catch-all for everything.

I know that the alignment part of that sort of differs from your opinions, but the plus with biscuits you have some sluff room (an alibi) where you can shift things slightly to regain that alignment and clamp it in place until the glue is dry.

Professionally, I used biscuit joiners allot. On houses over the $1 Mil mark, that is where we would start using them to join trim (window and door casings). I had a PC 557, that got stolen from the jobsite. Since I had a lot of other tools to re-buy in order to work and make a living, I replaced that with a Ryobi I found at a yard sale. It looked like it had never been used.

That was a tool that I thought I would replace when I got back on my feet, with another Porter Cable... But I was wrong. That was years ago and I still have it. That Ryobi has done me well. still use and I haven't had any inkling of replacing it.

But was also said- It could be done with a router. Not as easy. Have to take care in the setup, so takes more time (not a production kind of affair). But for how much you said you would need and use a biscuit joiner, it may not pay for itself.

Sidenote-- Pawn Shops usually pay less than 10% of the value of something when they buy from people. There is a lot of wiggle room there. I've done work for pawn owner's. I dicker on the prices. Look at it. Plug in it. Talk the price down. Doesn't hurt to try.


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Good post Mike. Your comment about the application and utility of the different joints for various situations is especially true and important; the biscuit is by no means the end-all-and-be-all for me, but in the right situation it is a remarkable, cheap, and fast solution. When trying to decide about the use of biscuit joints, it's probably best to think of the biscuit joint rather than the tool because it's all about which JOINT is most appropriate for a given situation; even though the biscuit joint, like a hammer, can be used all over the place, it isn't always the best choice.


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

I guess experience vary. I love my biscuit for joining two sheets of plywood on counter tops. If I pay attention, dragging a card over them produces no more of a snag than I'd get joining several pieces of wood together on a table top.

The other place it really shinned was, joining 45's on a display pedestals I make from time to time. 



Al B Thayer said:


> Yes that's how you and I understand it. But the myth is "aid in alignment". As in make the boards align better with rather than without.
> 
> Al


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Dejure said:


> I guess experience vary. I love my biscuit for joining two sheets of plywood on counter tops. If I pay attention, dragging a card over them produces no more of a snag than I'd get joining several pieces of wood together on a table top.
> 
> The other place it really shinned was, joining 45's on a display pedestals I make from time to time.


Yea Kelly, I have to agree. There are times when I allowed some movement when cutting my slot(s) and that didn't help with the quality, but generally I find the tool to be a great alignment aid, and the joints are as tight and smooth as any other method I've tried so far.


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## mlwinnig (Oct 9, 2013)

Just to stir the muck a bit... Did my first little project with a Kreg K5 Pocket Joinery jig. Rolling base for new/barely used Grizzly band saw. Just another option... Liked it!


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