# Looking for a FLAT SUB-BASE for PC894PK



## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

I purchased PC894PK in a shop in USA.
But Sub-Base of a router is not FLAT.
So... I need flat sub-base. If possibly, DEAD FLAT is the best.
Which product is the best ?
Would you like to advice me for getting Flat Sub-Base of PC894PK.
Please let me know about your recommendations.



Unnecessary additon
I mailed to a shop to chage convex(concave) base to flat one. The answer is "contact to Porter Cable".
Then I mailed to Porter Cable. The answer is "contact Black&Decker".
I mailed to Black&Decker. The answer is "contact Black&Decker in Japan".
I know this way well. It is just like as our administrative organs. It is called "Tarai mawashi".

A surprise to me is ... at the first time Black&Decker mailed me "We can not assist you", but now they changed their mind to "we will send to you". But they also mailed me "you must pay for sub-base".
This is the way of the American Manufacturer's assistance ?
This is the Conscience of American manufacturer ?
As a matter of cause, I replied "I do not pay any money. Because your product is the DEFECTIVE."


I am sorry for my poor language. So I ask you all to guess what I want to say.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Benny,
How distorted is your sub base? Are they the clear polycarbonate sub bases or the black phenolic style?

I rarely use the factory sub bases, since I like larger ones that have square sides for following a fence. The factory sub bases are used when I need template guides above the table.

If you plan on table mounting your router, you can find a good quality plate and just leave that on your router all the time.

I've also made an offset base a while back out of acrylic sheet, which I also drilled with pivot pins for use as a router compass.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Benny

This what I would do  drop a email to the SHOP/Company that you got the PC from and ask them to replace the sub base with one that's flat,be nice but hold to your guns,PC is not a fly by night company and I'm sure they will replace it at no charge (IF IT's NOT FLAT AND TRUE) but besure you are 100% right or they may charge you for a new base. 
I'm almost sure you will have a PC service center that can take care of it for you once you get the OK from the shop you got it from. (RMA Number)
They do back up what they make and sell .

Good Luck in your quest .

Bj 


DEC. 2005 or 2006 ?
http://www.routerforums.com/introductions/3859-hello-i-am-nihon.html#post37226


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Benny, this is the first we have heard of this problem. How much would you say the base is off from flat? Are all the screws tightened all the way? Is there an obvious bump that shouldn't be there? Porter Cable builds high quality products and stands behind them. DeWalt service centers now handle all parts and repairs for B&D, DeWalt and PC.(All are owned by B&D since last year) I will assist you in correcting this problem.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Doug san

Thank you for advices.

Base are the clear polycarbonate. It is a convex shape. The highest place is around center hole. So... when I use it, router swings. Then I want a FLAT sub-base.

Router compass... yes, I bought acrylic plate for that. I wish I could do well...


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Bj san 

Thank you for your advices.

The first, I am not used to handle a GUN. Good citizen like me (^_^) has no chance to shoot it. But if possible, I would like to have a SAA which has a 7-1/2 inch barrel, one-piece wooden grips. My favourite one. But it costs maybe more than $5,000. Expencive....

Well... if a sub-base is flat, I have no reason why I complain about it to manufacturer.

It is better for me that PC is to be a fly by night company. Because If I can not contact PC, I can give up anything. 
But it is not. I can contact them. But they do not take duty which they should take, I think.
It is not a good for me.

After all I must let myself understand that American manufacturer is unkind to a persom who lives outside USA.



I ordered a book which you recommended to Amazon Japan. I will take it in maybe 10 days. I am looking forward to its arrival. Thank you for your recommendation.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Mike san

Thank you for your advices.

assist : 
I would like you to recommend me a GOOD SUB-BASE for PC894PK as I wrote before.
It is the best assist for me now.
I decided not to use PC product on sub-base.




Additions
How off from flat : I can not measure it. I do not have a tool which is suitable for it.(*1)
tighten screw : base itself is convex (without presure)
bump : no.
hq : I've heard about it. So I decide to purchase, but .... 
(*1) Gap is 0.02 inch by my friend's measuring. He says "Tolerance(Allowable error)".


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Benny, the reason your sub base plate is not perfectly flat may seem strange but it is true: This allows for minor irregularities in the wood and ensures the wood will always pass the bit at the same height. Rousseau mounting plates are made with this same feature. This is not a flaw.
If you want to remove this just sand it flat. If you prefer to replace the sub base plate here are some high quality phenolic plates from Oak Park, sponsor of The Router Workshop. 11" square plates are for table mounting. 7" square plates are for free hand use and do not have holes for the height adjuster. 7" square plates have holes in the corners that you may mount bearings in for centering the router on a piece of wood. You can view these in the US version of the catalog by clicking here:
http://www.oak-park.com/info.html?list=PC01--


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Mike san

Thank you for an infomation and suggestions.
But I prefer CLEAR sub-base now rather than non-clear one.
Because I purchased router just for AKEDA dovetail jig.
I am beginner so clear base is easy for me to handle router with AKEDA. A reason is I want to see Bit and also PIN of AKEDA during operation.

Thank you for many kindness.


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## Daniel_R (Dec 31, 2006)

Just checked the clear base from my PC kit and it is indeed flat.
Stick with trying to get a new one from PC, I find it hard to get the right contact person, but once you do things move quickly.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Daniel R san

Your base is Flat ? It is good for you. So... you have not need to spend waste-time, have you.
The only answer from PC is "contact Black Decker". So I think PC avoids their duty. At that time, I should decide that I should understand that that correspondence is a some way of taking duty.
The beat way of solve is smile and 44-Magnum. (Sorry, Bj san. It is just a bad joke of mine)
And also, as you said, it is impossible for me to get "the right contact person".

Now evrytime I use PC router, I usually feel "why I must use a defective ?".
So I want to release myself from that kind of feeling when I use router.
Then I made up my mind to replace sub-base.

I think it is the best way to replace a sub-base to high quality one.
So as my first write, I ask you all to recommend me a good sub-base.

I thank you for your advices.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

to all members,

I need time to write something in English. So reply is like a snail.
And I usually make mistakes in words and grammer.
As a consequence of my poor ability of language, I may mislead you often.

So I ask you all members to poin out my mistakes to me.


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## Daniel_R (Dec 31, 2006)

Your english in the posts is excellent.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Benny,

Doug has the best solution, use a piece of acrylic. If you are still having problems contacting B&D or PC. Get yourself a piece of acrylic and try a machine shop. They should be able to copy the original to the acrylic and it should be flat.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

to all members,

I thank you for your kindly assistances.
Those make Black&Decker change its mind.
BD says "we ship them without your payment.".
I may be able to been released from bad impression of them.
I thank all members again.

But I use sub-base which is made by acrylic shop near my house.
It is high price a little bit, but it is bot bad.




Unnecessary additon as a English study.

What is the meaning of "will attempt to ship" ?
As far as I know, it means just possibility in future. It is not decided to ship.
So I mailed " After decision, mail me again".
Aa a reply, "are going to attempt to ship".

So I want to know.
1) What is a differemce (are differences) between "will" and "be going to" ?
2) Which has more strong mind(will) for(to or another) shipping ?

I am glad if you could teach me.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Benny, english is a very specific language. Part of the problem you are having is what we call "mannorism's". The person who told you they "will attempt to ship" meant they would ship as long as the part was in stock. Chances are he did not look on the shelf to be sure the part was there, it might be in a different department or even building. He might not have access to inventory numbers. He was trying to ship you the part and it depended on somebody else to do this.

1) What is _the_ difference between "will" and "are going to"?
We will do this. A positive decision has been made.
We are going to do this. The action is planned.
Both mean yes, described in different ways.

2) Which shows more intention or commitment?
In this case they both mean the same.

It is sad but many in this country are poor students of our own language.

I finally got into the B&D/DeWalt/PC service center today and had them hopping about trying to find a base plate to check for square. They did not have even one in stock. I am glad they are replacing your plate, as they should. I will mention this to PC so they are aware their service department is not taking good care of customers.


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi: At one time I needed a clear see through base for my router, which was a PC 693.
I bought a piece of 1/4" Lucite, and used the PC sub base as a guide. I used another router and a trim bit with a bearing, and routed the Lucite both outside, and the center hole. Then I drilled it out for the mounting screws, and it worked perfectly.
Good luck with it. Woodnut65


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Ken san

Thank you for an advice.

I posted that I asked shop tp make order-made sub-base. The inside story is maybe like ... a shop asks another shop in big town to make it. It is also impossoble for a shop at small town.

That is right. I should thank Doug san. He gave me an inspire about non-factory sub bases.
At that time, an idea comming to me is only router compass.


Can I laugh your image ?
I wonder which derection he or she or it wants to go ...


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Mike san

I thank you very much for your kindness. And I am very sorry for the much trouble of you.

For the future, if PC will take care of evry customers, it is good for customers.
"Contact BD" is really an avoiding their duty, I think.

Anyway, I thank you for all members for big help.


About language
Please let me be going to post it to Lobby or someplace.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Benny,
You are correct that companies should take care of their customers. If there is a problem, they should fix it at their cost, not yours. Please keep us posted on how this all turns out. 

Mike couldn't have said this better... "It is sad but many in this country are poor students of our own language." 
While those that are learning the english langauge seem to understand it better than we do. Your english is just fine. 

"Can I laugh your image ?
I wonder which derection he or she or it wants to go ..." 
Yes, you may. It was meant to make others laugh or give them a smile.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Woodnut65 san

thank you for your advice.

>trim bit with a bearing, and routed the Lucite both outside
I tried to do it. But I failed perfectly.
A cause is that a centre of gravity is out of a work-piece ( I did not put pieace which is as same height as acrylic plate at the another side of work-piece). So I try again.
Thank you for cherring me up.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Ken san

Yes, I post about the end of a shipping-story.

A office in Japan mailed me that they will get sub-base for me. "******(I asked my sister how to say in English.),so you should adjust about matter between two offices."
I wonder why they do not corresponde between them.


-----
Do you appear(perform) on a video ?


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Disappointed

Jan.30, I got base-plate which is made arrangement for ship(import) by BD Office in Japan.
It is convex base plate which is a same as I have.

Oh, my Buddha...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Benny, I'm sorry to hear of this news.  Frustrating I know. Have you considered looking at Oak Park, like Mike had made an earlier suggestion on? These are phenolic plates and are flat.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

Ken san

Yes, I think Oak Park's base is the BEST.
A reason why I hesitate to buy it is that plate does not look like "see through".
I want to watch router bit and jig. Because I worry that I will rout where I should not rout.
But I can not find easily what I want.
So.. I am thinking to but it now.

Thank you for your advices.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Benny, have you tried using your router the way it is? If not, please do so. I know it does not seem like it will work but please try. I will be on the phone with PC later today.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Benny LaBaw said:


> Ken san
> 
> Yes, I think Oak Park's base is the BEST.
> A reason why I hesitate to buy it is that plate does not look like "see through".
> ...



Hi Benny

I just don't get it,  why would you want to have a "see through" plate, I can see it on a plunge router BUT on a router table why ,most of the work is done on the top of the table and all you want to see is the bit, you can buy many after market clear base plates to fit your router base that are flat and true.

If you want one that will not sag and that is flat and you can see through it, pickup some 1/2" plastic and make your own.
see snap shot below ▼


Bj


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Today was opening day for a new Lowes store near me. I picked up the display model PC 893 router and sure enough the clear sub base plates on both the plunge and fixed base were way off. There was about .015" gap between the router base and the sub base plate on one, the other would make a good pattern for a rocking horse. Now that I have seen the flaw I understand completely. I contacted PC today and do not expect a response until Monday. The new PC routers seem to have very poor quality control so lets all send a big thank you to B&D for ruining a good thing.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike 

Looks liike the 800's have some real errors, see reviews, some good, some bad reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu..._pt/103-2306094-7750249?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu..._pt/103-2306094-7750249?ie=UTF8&n=228013&s=hi

Bj


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Benny LaBaw said:


> Ken san
> 
> Yes, I think Oak Park's base is the BEST.
> A reason why I hesitate to buy it is that plate does not look like "see through".
> ...


Benny, the plates from Oak Park aren't "see through". I do understand your reason behind wanting to have one though. Guides and bearings will help keep you from routing where you don't want to.
As has been suggested before, you could make your own with acrylic/plastic. It would be just the matter of transferring the pattern over.

Mike, I don't know much about the PC's, so I was wondering, would the plates from one series to another be interchangable? Meaning, a plate from a 600 series to the 800? Of course, I don't believe that Benny should have to buy another plate, PC or B&D should be the one's responsible.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A very good question Ken. I will take a plate from my 690 to the store and compare it. I know you can drop a 890 series motor into a 690 series base so I would think they are the same size. After reading the complaints on Amazon's web site it seems there are many quality control issues with the 890 series. Reports of the height adjustment rack breaking in half, the screws that hold it to the case snapping off flush to the case, base plate problems and in one case smoke after only an hours use. I realize some people are dishonest and would claim a defect like the broken screws when in truth the reason the screws failed was because they dropped the router. But there are more problem reports than I would of imagined for what has always been a top quality brand.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Ken,

The 890 plates I have fit the 693 router I have. In fact, the clear one that was on my plunge base is mounted on the old 693 router. I've checked both of mine, they're flat (except from some of the scratches from wear and tear). I don't know how much warp would be necessary to cause a problem, being that there are a bunch of holes in the middle for air flow, etc.

Like I mentioned before, I usually put a larger acrylic sub base on (about 7 inch square) with flat sides for following a straight edge guide. I only use the factory subplate when I need the template guide.

hope this helps


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Doug, this is good news then. I agree with you about the acrylic. I would think that even with acrylic, you can take it to a machine shop to have the center hole machined to accept bushings/guides. 
I still believe that it's PC's or B&D's responsiblity to take care of the problem. If a company can't stand behind it's product, then they have lost me as a customer. This is also true if they try to give a person a big "run around".


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I got a reply to my request for customer service yesterday. One of the clerks named Stacie suggested that the router had been dropped and needed to go to a service center for inspection. She then marked the problem "Solved". I replyed that the problem was not solved, the router was not dropped and mentioned the new 693PK on the shelf with the gap between the plunge base and the sub base plate, the rocking fixed base plate, the 40% of customers who reported problems on Amazon as well as the 60% who loved their new router. This is a serious quality control problem.
Benny, please take the sub base plate off your router and set the base on a table and let me know if it is flat. The reason Oak Park started selling a centering disk is because the 890 series routers have such poorly machined bases. Lets see what the reply is this time.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Ken,

My 894 kit was one of the first ones, I think before the merger. Dunno if that has anything to do with it, but you never know! (best of all, the first $200 of the price was ofset as a performance bonus from my employer, and back then PC and Amazon.com gave you free height adjuster and a couple other goodies) It was an awesome deal, and it's been a great router. Best of all, all of my PC 690 series stuff is interchangeable with it.

I sincerely hope that PC hasn't slid down the food chain being bought out. I've had nothing but happiness with my sanders, routers, and especially my biscuit joiner. I've always thought that they were worth the extra price over other brands, it'd be a shame if it were no longer so.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Well, as I said before, I don't know much about PC. I do know that many tool co.'s will have some that can interchange. I only asked, in perhaps maybe Benny knows someone nearby that may happen to have a spare plate from another series?
I too sincerely hopes that PC hasn't gone down the tubes with the merger. After reading Mike's post, it would seem that even customer care has dropped too. 
It's sad that as companies merge, the first thing that goes is customer care and or quality control. To have a 40% customer dissatisfaction.... doesn't sound good at all.

For your scratches, if you take a dab of oil, and lightly rub it into the piece, then polish out the oil. This will remove any dirt or debris that's in the scratches making them much less noticable.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Just a quick update. My assistance request has been refferred to the product line manager. No response from him yet. I checked out an 892PK on the shelf at Woodcraft and it has the same problems.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

I really thank all of members for helping me.
You all are very kind to me. I think it is enough for me.
And especially I appreciate, Mike san, what you have done for me.

I ask you all members to help me if I post next time.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I looked at one at the local HD the other day.. It seems the plastic is softer than my bases.. There was a huge gap on the 690 I looked at.. I was able to move the gap wider with a finger nail..


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

It has taken long enough but here is the official reply from Porter Cable:

Dear Mike,

Porter Cable has recently pulled their router bases from the supplier delivering sub standard quality and has moved them to another supplier whose components should start shipping on our products within the next two months. In fact, we have thrown the tooling for the plunge base in the trash and have redesigned and retooled a totally different product to address the quality issues with that item. Additionally, the screws on the sub base can be relaxed to reduce the flex on the sub base - in some cases, they are over-tightened to the point that the plastic actually puckers toward the base near the screw holes and away from the edges of the sub base (concave). The .025” could easily have been the resulting effect. 

Regards,
End User Services

I sent a reply asking if they were going to do a recall or what steps had to be taken to get a defective unit repaired or replaced. I will post the reply when I get it. Please share this information with everybody you can.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Good work Mike!!

I hope this will lead to Benny LaBaw getting his problem solved, in Japan.


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## Benny LaBaw (Jan 4, 2007)

I wonder why.....
there are many members who get my eyes fill with mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Benny LaBaw said:


> I wonder why.....
> there are many members who get my eyes fill with mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen.


Benny san, it happens to us too... just trying to help you.

Looks like PC will take care of you... we just have to wait & see how / when.

Don't give up yet... hang in there.


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## herbfellows (Oct 24, 2007)

Mike, hi, newbie here. I just bought the bosch 1617 kit. The plunge sub base is dead flat, but the fixed sub base is the same as our friend Benny in Japan, high in the center. I can actually rock a straight edge on it, and slip three sheets of paper under each side with the straight edge on it. Not wanting to make a fool of myself (something I'm real familiar with!) to Bosch, I went to the local HD and Lowes and took a straight edge off the shelf and checked the routers on display there. Every one was dead flat. Am I missing something here?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Whilst I've heard other opinions, so far as I'm concerned Herb, all router bases should be FLAT, perhaps Template Tom will join in with HIS PROFESSIONAL opinion.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the forums Herbfellows.


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

As far as I know PC, Dewalt, Hitachi, Bosch and the rest ... none of them are being manufactured in USA, JAPAN, SWISS and only Festool and Fein is being manufactured in Germany that’s why you have to mortgage the house to own one of their tools.
Most people make their own sub base. Factory sub bases are hit and miss at best.
This place has sub-bases.

http://www.patwarner.com/


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

herb,
Check the tightness of your screws, they may have been 'overtightened' at the factory. If the sub base still has a serious curve in it when not attached to the base, call the factory and send it back.

If it's flat, and the base is tweaked, then you can make sure that there are no left over high spots from the casting, or just pass that on to the factory as well.


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## herbfellows (Oct 24, 2007)

*been dere dun dat*



kp91 said:


> herb,
> Check the tightness of your screws, they may have been 'overtightened' at the factory. If the sub base still has a serious curve in it when not attached to the base, call the factory and send it back.
> 
> If it's flat, and the base is tweaked, then you can make sure that there are no left over high spots from the casting, or just pass that on to the factory as well.


I already checked the casting, it's flat. Also checked the sub base off the router, it's definitely convex. I'll probably end up making a new one or Pat Warner it, but as you say, they should make it right. I'm using the 30 day trial because this is my first serious router, not a great start for Bosch. The other contender going in was the Dewalt 3 base. Hopefully this will get straight and that will be the end of that and me and my router will live happily ever after! Thanks for the info guys!


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## MickH (Feb 10, 2012)

*I just bought a new Porter Router Kit 895PK*



Mike said:


> It has taken long enough but here is the official reply from Porter Cable:
> 
> Dear Mike,
> 
> ...



Dear Mike I have just the other day got a new Porter cable Router Kit but straight away I'm very frustrated because on the Plunge Base 8931 the screws are missing that locate any rods that form part of an edge guide. Because I'm in the UK I have found Porter Cable customer services uncontactable... All I need to know is what are the threads where these two machine screws are missing & then I'll be able to get them here in UK... They are bigger than 5mm x.8 but they are similar but not the same as 0 BA. I've got an idea they may well be UNC but short of telephoning Porter Cable I don't seem to be able to crack their secret service attitude to emails... You seem a very knowlegable chap -do you know what the threads are?????? I would be sincerely grateful to know. Regards Mick in the UK---- [email protected]


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