# Big Mistake - Solutions Sought . . .



## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Well, you know what they say about the best laid plans . . . 
I built the trestle lathe stand according to the design I posted earlier - incorporating suggestions from you folks. The top beam is 7" Wide X 5 1/4" Height. The legs are 7" X 3 1/4". I was certain I would never need to take it apart, so every joint is glued. Through mortise/tenons where the legs join the top rail and the feet. Even the stretchers across the legs are glued in place and backed up with lag bolts. The thing is massive and strong. It was all going so well until I put the lathe on top of it.

It's 5 inches too high. It seems that when I measured the spindle height on my lathe, I measured to the bed instead of to the surface of the stand. Anyway, now the thing is built and it needs to get 5 inches shorter. When I make a mistake like that, I've learned not to try to fix it immediately. The best solutions usually come after some gestation period in my subconscious. 

The best plan I have come up with so far is to cut 5 inches out of the middle of the legs. Then I'll glue a scab on all 4 sides of each leg in such a way as to wrap the entire leg with a "cast", making the fix practically invisible. 

However, recognizing the collective wisdom of the group, I'm asking if anyone has a better idea.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Other than building a 5" high platform to stand on then I have to agree with your plan.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

You could remove the wheels.


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## mimac (Dec 13, 2009)

Remove the lag screws on the legs at the base then saw down the glue joint keeping to the leg side as you're cutting 5" off anyway.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Just thinkin' outside the box here...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Along the lines of what Brian said I would cut the uprights at the line below. Take the bolts out, knock the 2x6's off (yes it will splinter) then cut the uprights. Get another 2x6 if those splinter badly (you can still use them for other projects later) and put it all back together. 

Fwiw, an older woodworker told me years ago never to glue anything that you think you'll never need to take apart. It *always *has to come apart for some reason down the road.









David


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Andy, I like your plan. But instead of making the fix permanent, make it a height adjustment. Drill a hole through the leg and put a long bolt through. Then you drill holes every 1 1/2" so you can raise the lathe up or down to suit the user or operation. You could even cut off more than the 5" to get a lower height if you so desired in the future.
Just saying,
Herb


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

hawkeye10 said:


> You could remove the wheels.


Or just let the air out of the tires.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Another idea . . . .
Since the legs are 3 1/4 thick X 7" wide, I have plenty of room for several BIG dowels. I could just have a doweled butt joint just above the stretchers. Think that would work??


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have a dumb question, What is that pipe across the front between the standards?
Herb


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Footrest.

David


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Herb Stoops said:


> I have a dumb question, What is that pipe across the front between the standards?
> Herb


You know how when you go to a bar, they have a rail to prop your foot on? It's a bar rail to prop my foot on.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DonkeyHody said:


> You know how when you go to a bar, they have a rail to prop your foot on? It's a bar rail to prop my foot on.


Oh..........I thought it was a lathe.....really? I'm not a turner or go to bars.... warned you it was a dumb question.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

5'' tall platform to stand on..
add another foot rest if need be...


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

I followed you other posts about building this stand. I would consider sawing off the vertical posts in the center (height wise), then make a 5" vertical mortice and tenon and re glue. It would be plenty strong. Barn posts were often extended that way. That way would still allow you to add the drawer box as you originally planed. or you could scab 2x6s front and rear after removing 5" from the posts, which gives you a much larger gluing surface, but does increase the thickness of the posts, front to rear.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Just thinkin' outside the box here...


Sorry, it took me a while to catch on. Hilarious! :laugh2:


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Andy, I think it would be less noticeable if you cut the legs just below the top. The seam could be invisible.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Just thinkin' outside the box here...


you have a most peculiar box...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Because of the bolts at the base, I'm assuming the cross pieces are removable. I'd remove them, saw at the bottom of the vertical pieces, then shorten the legs from the bottom instead of the middle. Looks like you could use a mortise with the legs as tennon, or the thick dowel method suggested. But I would most likely add a plywood trapezoid (as drawn) to each side of the legs after reattaching them. Bolt the ply in place so you can adjust the adjustment later. Forget the glue until you know it's the right height for you. That trapezoid may also give you even more stability. 

If you want to add a drawer, the trapezoid's cut off top will accommodate. A trapezod of 3/4 good quality ply is going to be plenty strong and will allow you to use a large number of bolts to add ridgidity. Because the vertical legs are so wide, you'll have plenty of room for bolts. I'd iron on or glue some edging to the ply so it doesn't catch and hold sawdust. If you like the height, you can glue the setup up later if necessary. 

I think cutting the leg in the middle will weaken the structure unnecessarily, and the triangles (with a little finishing and edging) will look like you planned it that way. Here's the shape I'm thinking about with possible bolt placement.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

These things happen and I like your stand. Lathes vibrate and need to be solid so you may well have to weight it down too, I would not cut it in the middle, I would leave the base alone and cut the posts 5inches from the top and refit the top beam to the cut post ends, you will have to get the old post ends out of the beam, this is the price you have to pay for not getting the dimensions correct, we all learn by making mistakes. N


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

What Neville said. I know some of the turners up here have mentioned that they put a couple of sandbags on the base to dampen vibration.
Intuition suggests that something mushy like a heavy sandbag would be far better than simply adding weight(?); it won't resonate.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Thanks to all for your thoughtful suggestions. As a couple of people have mentioned, the reason for all that wood is to absorb vibration, not because it's needed for strength. Unlike a workbench, a lathe stand should never see any serious horizontal forces. With that in mind - and the fact that it's a shop tool and not a piece of furniture - here's what I've decided to do:

First, I'll cut 5" out of the middle of each leg. Then I'll dowel the legs back together with some fairly large dowel pins. 
I posted plans earlier showing a chest of drawers that fits inside the trestle. http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/126122-lathe-stand-design-cross-check.html
My original plan was to build the chest separately and just slide it into place. I'll change that plan and build the chest in place, gluing the sides to the legs. The large glue area combined with the rigidity added by the back should lend enough strength to resist any forces this structure will ever experience. I've decided to quit worrying about hiding the error and concentrate on fixing it in a way that will be easy and strong. 

The plan all along was to fill the void between the stretchers with sand. I already installed a bottom between the stretchers to hold it. The trestle already weighs about 80 pounds or so. 100 pounds of sand, plus the chest and the tools should hold things down quite nicely. 

Thanks again everybody!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Andy; re the sand. You might want to put the sand into sandbags or innertubes, before putting it into the tray. You've probably already planned that...doing a sawdust/chip cleanup with loose sand in the tray would be a royal p.i.t.a.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DonkeyHody said:


> The best plan I have come up with so far is to cut 5 inches out of the middle of the legs. Then I'll glue a scab on all 4 sides of each leg in such a way as to wrap the entire leg with a "cast", making the fix practically invisible.


I've done that twice now, once with my saw stand, once with a tool stand. Worked like a charm.


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## cjhilinski (Apr 25, 2017)

I have that same Delta lathe. I've had it for a long time and it has continually served me well. I don't use it as much as I used to, but it's one of those tools I can't see me ever selling.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

DonkeyHody said:


> Thanks to all for your thoughtful suggestions. As a couple of people have mentioned, the reason for all that wood is to absorb vibration, not because it's needed for strength. Unlike a workbench, a lathe stand should never see any serious horizontal forces. With that in mind - and the fact that it's a shop tool and not a piece of furniture - here's what I've decided to do:
> 
> First, I'll cut 5" out of the middle of each leg. Then I'll dowel the legs back together with some fairly large dowel pins.
> I posted plans earlier showing a chest of drawers that fits inside the trestle. http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/126122-lathe-stand-design-cross-check.html
> ...


Cutting the legs in the middle is making a mistake, I mean making a second mistake so keeping the legs as one piece is a lot smarter. Once you turn wood into sawdust you can't use it as wood any more. N


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> Cutting the legs in the middle is making a mistake, I mean making a second mistake so keeping the legs as one piece is a lot smarter. Once you turn wood into sawdust you can't use it as wood any more. N


By cutting the legs in the middle, I would maximize the glue surface area on each side of the cut, and also maximize the leverage that the scab has to resist bending at the cut line. The next best option as I see it is to throw away the feet and build new ones. Then I could cut tenons on the bottom of the legs to join the new feet. These tenons would have to be cut by hand because the legs would still be attached to the main beam. I'm still contemplating that one.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Andy, you could still use tenons instead of dowels if you wanted. Thru mortices (like a bridal joint) could be sawn with circular saw or by hand, fettled with a chisel, then a tight (loose) tenon, or two.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

DonkeyHody said:


> You know how when you go to a bar, they have a rail to prop your foot on? It's a bar rail to prop my foot on.


Surely it means that you have to lean forward when turning. I can't imagine what it would be like doing a deep turning. As for the height I would agree with those who suggested a platform.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DonkeyHody said:


> By cutting the legs in the middle, I would maximize the glue surface area on each side of the cut, and also maximize the leverage that the scab has to resist bending at the cut line.


I tend to agree with you.



> The next best option as I see it is to throw away the feet and build new ones. Then I could cut tenons on the bottom of the legs to join the new feet. These tenons would have to be cut by hand because the legs would still be attached to the main beam. I'm still contemplating that one.


Floating tenons. Then you can mortise each side with a router. You can glue 4 pieces of scrap together with a square or rectangular hole in the center for a jig in 5 minutes.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Floating tenons. Then you can mortise each side with a router. You can glue 4 pieces of scrap together with a square or rectangular hole in the center for a jig in 5 minutes.


Thar She Blows! 
That's the idea I was looking for. I've never used floating tenons and didn't think of them. The thing that was preventing me from using regular mortise/tenon joints is the massiveness of the pieces and the fact they are already assembled into a large and unwieldy unit. Test fitting would be a wrestling match, and I'm nursing a herniated disk that's driving me nuts. But with floating tenons, I can test fit with small pieces that are easy to machine to a precise fit. I'm well on my way to putting this problem to bed!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Andy if you are planning on putting a cabinet between the legs then that can act as a stretcher, which means that there won't be any torque at all on the joint between the legs and base. So it won't need a super strong joint. I'm assuming that there will be a continuous back on the cabinet so that will be the stretcher. It could be fairly thin (I'm thinking minimum 1/4" though) depending on how many shelves and partitions. The shelves and partitions start to transform the cabinet into a torsion box so it doesn't have to be extra heavy duty to do that.

The first time I used floating tenons was last summer when I made a screen door for my front porch. There was no way to handle the stiles on a saw or drill press but a jig with my router was no problem at all.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Andy, Take photos please


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

The Fix is Done!
Since the the legs are 3 1/4" thick, cutting from both sides was required to sever each leg. I clamped a piece of plywood to the post to act as a guide for my circular saw to cut the legs in two. The plywood registered on the foot and beam to make sure the cuts were at the same level. A springpole supported the weight of the beam ut to keep the wood from pinching the saw on the final cut. 

I used my aluminum assembly squares to create a jig for the router. Rather than hogging out all the mortise with a router bit, I drilled four 1" holes with a Forstner bit. Finished the mortises with a shaft-mounted bearing on a straight bit. Mortises are 1 1/2" deep. Tenons are 1 1/16" thick by 5 3/16 wide. 

The floating tenon was a great suggestion. I had no trouble machining the tenon for an easy fit. The whole thing went together with only a little clamping pressure. The glue is curing now. Now that I've done it, I'm not at all worried about these joints weakening the legs. 

Thanks everybody for your interest and advice. It's a better fix than I would have come up with on my own.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Another job WELL DONE! All that worry, and a great solution.


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## stpackmo74 (Mar 25, 2006)

*Lathe bench too high*

Hi,
I know that you fixed your problem but I do have a suggestion. The RETRACTING CASTERS That Woodcraft sells would have cut about 4 inches off your height by getting rid of your casters. then your bench would be sitting on solid floor and not the casters you have now. They are ok but can move on you and that's not good. These pop-up casters work great, I have them on four different machines, including my lathe. They cost about $50 but work great and I think are well worth it. Just a thought. Happy turning and glad that everything worked out for you. By the way I have has 6 lower back surgeries and 4 neck fussions, so I need things to be easy for me to move. Hope your back gets better !!


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

stpackmo74 said:


> Hi,
> I know that you fixed your problem but I do have a suggestion. The RETRACTING CASTERS That Woodcraft sells would have cut about 4 inches off your height by getting rid of your casters. then your bench would be sitting on solid floor and not the casters you have now. They are ok but can move on you and that's not good. These pop-up casters work great, I have them on four different machines, including my lathe. They cost about $50 but work great and I think are well worth it. Just a thought. Happy turning and glad that everything worked out for you. By the way I have has 6 lower back surgeries and 4 neck fussions, so I need things to be easy for me to move. Hope your back gets better !!


Now why didn't I think of that? It's an elegant solution that would have saved me a lot of frustration and redesign. I'm working on the chest of drawers now, but got sidetracked by beautiful weather that caused Bentley to demand I ride my tricycle, and a few requests for bluebird houses. 

Oh, here's Bentley and me on the tricycle.


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

DonkeyHody said:


> Well, you know what they say about the best laid plans . . .
> I built the trestle lathe stand according to the design I posted earlier - incorporating suggestions from you folks. The top beam is 7" Wide X 5 1/4" Height. The legs are 7" X 3 1/4". I was certain I would never need to take it apart, so every joint is glued. Through mortise/tenons where the legs join the top rail and the feet. Even the stretchers across the legs are glued in place and backed up with lag bolts. The thing is massive and strong. It was all going so well until I put the lathe on top of it.
> 
> It's 5 inches too high. It seems that when I measured the spindle height on my lathe, I measured to the bed instead of to the surface of the stand. Anyway, now the thing is built and it needs to get 5 inches shorter. When I make a mistake like that, I've learned not to try to fix it immediately. The best solutions usually come after some gestation period in my subconscious.
> ...


I haven't read all the response to your request for suggestions but you could cut a dutch lap into the legs calculating to drop you need. This will also allow you to disassemble it in the future should you need to transport/move it>


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