# Chamfer Board Edge



## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I need to cut a 45 degree angle on the edge of a thin board. I would like to do it on the router table with a 45 degree chamfer bit. If I use the router table fence the board will tilt after it passes the bit as a slight amount of wood will be cut from the edge unless I do a very precise alignment job. I could also attach a straight board on top of the board being cut which the bearing can ride against. I could start with a board longer than needed and start the cut with the leading edge of the board to the left of the bit and stop before the trailing edge reaches the bit....this will make sure the boards runs straight.
Suggestions or other ideas?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

How thin and long is the board, Jim?

Sometimes a block plane will do the job.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

*Chamfer Board edge*



jw2170 said:


> How thin and long is the board, Jim?
> 
> Sometimes a block plane will do the job.


Board is red oak. 3/8" thick 32" long.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

James +1. Also, if you're using a fence, why do you need a bearing? The height adjustment on your router plus the positioning of the fence determines the amount of the cut. The bearing is unnecessary in this case. In theory at least the amount of material removed is infinitely adjustable, between zero and full ht.
If you don't want to remove the bearing, just make sure its not protruding past the front face of the fence.
The thickness of your material is really irrelevant as long as the board contacts the outfeed fence when it's past the bit.
You are doing this with the board flat on the table?


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Yes, board is flat on the table. As you said the amount of material can be zero or more. In order for the top edge of the board to be straight the edge of the board must not be removed. If the top edge is removed the routing process acts like a jointer and the board gets narrower. I've got to get the adjustment just right so that the top edge isn't removed.....trial and error. I finally did it by starting with a longer board, leading edge to the left of the bit against the fence, eased piece into the bit, stopped before trailing edge reached the bit. The unrouted leading and trailing edges against the fence kept the routed section straight.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

A 45° cutter will handle that thickness of board without problems.

Also set a couple of feather boards on the fence to hold the board down. The board will try and ride up the face of the cutter.


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

It might make it easier if you turn the edge to be trimmed to the bottom so the edge to be trimmed is meeting the smallest edge of the work piece and router bit and use a trailing scrap piece


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

I was going to comment on this last night. Had it all typed out... then deleted it.

45 degree beveled edge- You could joint it as was mentioned... but you don't really need to. You just set it up to cut 1/32"- shy of a fully cut profile (on the long side). Just shy of a knife edge. That way it still runs against the fence , doesn't take away from your width, but "_looks_" finished. You do not need a knife edge. By the time it's glued and sanded, it will turn out the same as if you did it like a knife edge, glued and sanded it. Meaning, whether is was a knife edge or just shy of before it is assembled, after it's glued together , then finish sanded, it will have the same slight chamfer on the edge and turn out the same.

One thing that was drummed in as an apprentice was that we had to put a slight chamfer on to take away any sharp edges. We had to carry around small pocket planes ( http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Chamfer-Beveled-Edge-Plane/dp/B001HMX7XW ) in our tool aprons that were made just for that. Or we knocked the edge off with a sanding block. Why? Because we were taught that a sharp edge is an unfinished edge... and that an unfinished edge is unprofessional. We called it "breaking an edge."

The link I gave is one... but we had a smaller shorter plane. It had the wraparound inside corner, one mini blade set at 45 degrees... But was small enough to fit in your palm. It had a hook to wrap around a finger and only had room for 3 fingers. You just felt which wway the grain went, then pulled it along the edge. I haven't see these in a while... but if anyone knows were I can find these, that type is sort of sentimental to me and I'd like to find a replacement. 

What happens if you really did achieve a knife edge on an edge? It's a recipe for the end-user to get a splinter or cut. Run your hand along a finished edge and it should feel like a pronounced corner, but feel smooth. 

Just saying...


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

JIMMIEM said:


> I've got to get the adjustment just right so that the top edge isn't removed.....trial and error.


And that, is the answer to the question.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> And that, is the answer to the question.


What are your thoughts on an extra long board and leaving the leading and trailing edges uncut to ride against the fence?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

JIMMIEM said:


> What are your thoughts on an extra long board and leaving the leading and trailing edges uncut to ride against the fence?


If you get the adjustment right you won't need to do that. If you're really worried about digging in then stick another board on top of it with good quality carpet tape and use it for the guide.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you're really worried about digging in then stick another board on top of it with good quality carpet tape and use it for the guide.


Charles-
Bravo!!!

Sometimes the most effective answer is just so simple... that we overlook that it is staring right back at us. I was blind to that until you mentioned it. Kudo's from me!

That is one more "tool" that I can carry with me now, the next time I'm working at that.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

I tried to post this when you wrote about the knife edge. The reason I need that type of edge is because this piece will be creating a scarf joint with the opposing piece that has a 45 degree chamfer on it also. What I am doing is creating a hardwood flooring reduce/transition piece that will abutt a marble threshold in a doorway that is finished with a 45 degree chamfer.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jim; I'm sensing bad ju-ju down the road a bit! That 'knife edge' is an invitation for problems when it's subjected to heavy traffic. Can you use a diamond blade on your grinder to eliminate the marble chamfer? Then use a brass transition with the hardwood butting up to it. I'm assuming you're running a hardwood floor up to the marble?


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Jim; I'm sensing bad ju-ju down the road a bit! That 'knife edge' is an invitation for problems when it's subjected to heavy traffic. Can you use a diamond blade on your grinder to eliminate the marble chamfer? Then use a brass transition with the hardwood butting up to it. I'm assuming you're running a hardwood floor up to the marble?


+1 with Dan.

First off, a finish transition between the same material is usually 15 degrees. That way it continues, easy to join, resists lateral forces screwing that up better. If one side is knocked and is knocked "in", more of an angle will tend to "lever" the joint and jack it away to the side. 15 degrees you don't see visually looking at it straight on... Transitions in height and differing materials (like in flooring where you get heavy and weighted traffic, then the transition is usually done with "T" moulding...

A transition "T" moulding is made to span between the surfaces with the bottom of each side over/resting on the level of support of the differing surfaces, with a leg going between. You can then use trim screws going down through the leg to mount into the sub-floor. I use these even with laminate flooring under doorways... because it's easy and fast. (They are also quick and easy to whip out on a router table!)

One other plus in this method is that it allows for the differing expansion and contraction rates. A floating floor can still float. Stone expands slower than wood. Etc.

EDIT-- If for some reason I do a wood/stone or wood/tile "bond"... such as a wood trim around stoneworks, then I do it with 0 degree cut with an acrylic mortar between so that it expands and contracts at that joint. I think Dan probably has more experience with that...

Previous to you mentioning specifically what the application was, I had thought you were trying to make a mitered edge joint, like for a box. Scarf joints are usually more than 45 degrees. Scarf joints are usually used where you are joining two alike (usually somewhat flexible and thin) materials together and there is a very good chance of bonding between them... and sanding & finishing is going to leave an invisible transition between. Not for dissimilar materials.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Charles-
> Bravo!!!
> 
> Sometimes the most effective answer is just so simple... that we overlook that it is staring right back at us. I was blind to that until you mentioned it. Kudo's from me!
> ...


I was considering suggesting a clamp sled like the one you were planning on building for your TS but it would only be worthwhile if you were going to use it regularly.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I too would be concerned about contraction and expansion. If the wood contracted with a 45* angle on it it would leave a sharp edge exposed, not to mention an unsightly gap.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I too would be concerned about contraction and expansion. If the wood contracted with a 45* angle on it it would leave a sharp edge exposed, not to mention an unsightly gap.


Question to the OP:

Is the marble edge with the 45 degrees under the edge or above it?

I'm thinking how you were describing on a transition that it is above. If so, then Dan's idea to cut the marble chamfer... would simplify things greatly. For things like that, an angle grinder with a diamond blade and near the ends, a oscillating tool with a diamond blade (where it gets tighter clearances, but slower going).


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

JIMMIEM said:


> What are your thoughts on an extra long board and leaving the leading and trailing edges uncut to ride against the fence?


If you're going to leave a slight edge on it, there's nothing to worry about.
You do have test pieces made up, right? If not, you should always make some scrap/test pieces with a project, just for setting up the tooling.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

*Chamfer Board edge*



DaninVan said:


> Jim; I'm sensing bad ju-ju down the road a bit! That 'knife edge' is an invitation for problems when it's subjected to heavy traffic. Can you use a diamond blade on your grinder to eliminate the marble chamfer? Then use a brass transition with the hardwood butting up to it. I'm assuming you're running a hardwood floor up to the marble?


Yes, I'm running a new hardwood floor that will be parallel to the marble threshold. I don't have a grinder. The top of the marble threshold is 3/8" above the new floor. I made the thickness of the transition/reducer a tad less than 5/16" so that the 'knife edge' will be below the top of the marble. Also, I will run a bead of silicone along the scarf joint to seal it. Some suggested butting the hardwood flooring tight to the marble threshold and forgoing the transition reducer. Flooring manufacturer's directions call for an expansion gap for the hardwood flooring so I decided to go with the reducer/transition. If I had a grinder and diamond blade I would have under cut the marble and run the new flooring under it.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> +1 with Dan.
> 
> First off, a finish transition between the same material is usually 15 degrees. That way it continues, easy to join, resists lateral forces screwing that up better. If one side is knocked and is knocked "in", more of an angle will tend to "lever" the joint and jack it away to the side. 15 degrees you don't see visually looking at it straight on... Transitions in height and differing materials (like in flooring where you get heavy and weighted traffic, then the transition is usually done with "T" moulding...
> 
> ...


My terminology may be not 100%, I am a DIY homeowner.
I'm installing 3/4" t&g solid hardwood flooring parallel to a marble threshold. The edges of the marble threshold have a 45 degree angle. The surface of the flooring is 3/8" lower than the top of the marble. The hardwood transition/reducer will abutt the marble threshold. To make this joint fit tight to the marble I am cutting the edge of the transition/reducer to a 45 degree angle. I thought that scarf was the correct term. This a variation on a T transition. The transition/reducer acts like an extension of the marble threshold. The 'leg' abutts the marble threshold and the edge of the transition/reducer rests on the 'leg' and is nailed through it into the subfloor. There will be an expansion gap (3/4") under the transition/reducer which extends from the 'leg' to the new flooring. The opposite edge of the transition/reducer rests on the new floor and will have a 15 degree chamfer on the face. As another member pointed out the knife edge on the transition/reducer could be a problem so I made the the thickness of transition/reducer less that 3/8" so the knife edge will be slightly lower than the top of the marble.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I too would be concerned about contraction and expansion. If the wood contracted with a 45* angle on it it would leave a sharp edge exposed, not to mention an unsightly gap.


The transition/reducer will sit on a 'leg' that abutts the marble threshold and will be nailed/screwed to the subfloor about 1/2" from the marble and will be slightly lower than than top of the marble so that the knife edge will be approx 1/16"+ below the top of the marble. The transition reducer is 5/16 " thick and 1 3/4" wide. The far edge of the transition reducer will not be attached and will just rest on the new flooring so it will be free to expand in that direction.....the path of least resistance.....that's the theory. The 'leg' will be at the same height as the new flooring so the transition/reducer will be supported on both edges.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Jim, that's what I thought you meant. Now that you've confirmed it, I'm even more sure that removing the marble 'ramp' will go a long way toward resolving the problem for you.
3/4" is way too big of an expansion void; I'd have thought maybe 1/4".
You've probably looked at commercially made wood transitions and noticed that the thinnest portion is on the lower edge, where it's protected and _fully supported_.
Installation - Step by Step: How to Make Your Own Wood Flooring Reducers


Would something like this work for you, if you made it with differing depth rebates to accommodate the two floor hts?
Cinnamon Maple T-Molding - | Lumber Liquidators


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Question to the OP:
> 
> Is the marble edge with the 45 degrees under the edge or above it?
> 
> I'm thinking how you were describing on a transition that it is above. If so, then Dan's idea to cut the marble chamfer... would simplify things greatly. For things like that, an angle grinder with a diamond blade and near the ends, a oscillating tool with a diamond blade (where it gets tighter clearances, but slower going).


I'm not sure I understand the question. The top edges of the marble threshold are chamfered. If you are standing on the marble threshold the chamfers slope toward you.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

AxlMyk said:


> If you're going to leave a slight edge on it, there's nothing to worry about.
> You do have test pieces made up, right? If not, you should always make some scrap/test pieces with a project, just for setting up the tooling.


Thank You. I do lots of test pieces.....usually buy lots of extra wood just for testinf ang setup.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Jim, that's what I thought you meant. Now that you've confirmed it, I'm even more sure that removing the marble 'ramp' will go a long way toward resolving the problem for you.
> 3/4" is way too big of an expansion void; I'd have thought maybe 1/4".
> You've probably looked at commercially made wood transitions and noticed that the thinnest portion is on the lower edge, where it's protected and _fully supported_.
> Installation - Step by Step: How to Make Your Own Wood Flooring Reducers
> ...


I omitted something from #23 if that's what you are referring to. The edge of the transition/reducer that abutts the marble will sit on a 'leg' that is at the same height as the new flooring. The opposite edge of the transition/reducer will sit on the new flooring. The 3/4" expansion gap will be between the 'leg' and new flooring and will be spanned by the transition/reducer. The profile (45 degrees) of the marble threshold edge dictates the edge profile of transition/reducer. Because the marble threshold is 3/8" higher than the new flooring I have to do a transition/reducer with the 'leg' under the edge for proper support.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Arissed?*

Ah! The bevel is not the full depth of the Marble? Maybe 1/4" or 3/8"?
If that's the case then you're probably Ok but 3/4" gap is still way too much in my opinion. And the knife edge, flush with the top of the Marble, is still a bad idea.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Ah! The bevel is not the full depth of the Marble? Maybe 1/4" or 3/8"?
> If that's the case then you're probably Ok but 3/4" gap is still way too much in my opinion. And the knife edge, flush with the top of the Marble, is still a bad idea.


The bevel is not the full depth of the marble....approx 1/4". The knife edge will be slightly (1/16") below the top of the marble. The 3/4" gap is the hardwood flooring manufacturer's installation recommendation. The edges of the transition/reducer will be supported by the new flooring under one edge and by a 'leg', that is made from a narrow piece of the flooring, under the other edge. The 'leg' abutts the marble. The edge of the transition/reducer that abutts the marble is being cut at 45 degrees so that it will fit tight to the marble edge profile.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

This is the way I described the situation on a Flooring Web site. I hope this makes what I am doing a little clearer.

One of the recommendations was to remove the Marble threshold and replace with wood threshold. The threshold is close to the low curb shower and I am afraid of water on the floor getting to a wood threshold so I decided to make a transtion /reducer. Marble threshold is 3/8" higher than new hardwood floor so I ripped a piece of flooring to 3/8" thick for my transition/reducer. Marble threshold has 45 degree chamfer on its edge so I cut a 45 degree chamfer on the edge of my transition/reducer so they will abutt with a scarf type joint. I cut a piece of flooring 1/2" wide and attached it to the subfloor against the marble.....this will support the edge of the transition reducer that abutts the marble. I left a 3/4" expansion gap between new hardwood flooring and the 1/2" flooring strip that is against the marble. The transition/reducer is 1 3/4" wide so one edge sits on the 1/2" hardwood strip against the marble and the opposite edge sits on the new hardwood floor. I cut the ends to fit around the door jamb and molding. I cut a 15 degree chamfer on the face of my transition/reducer that sits on the new hardwood floor.


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