# Cedar Strip Canoe Build



## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

A bit of background. I originally posted on the Router Forum to solve a problem I had with my router. As things developed I began to share what I was doing with my router and it was suggested that I begin a new thread focused on the building of a Cedar Strip Canoe. 

The canoe that I am building is a redesign of the original Rob Roy double paddle canoe. It was originally built in 1866 and since that time many variations of the design were developed with changes to the length and beam. The original length of the Rob Roy was 15’ and included a lug sail and jib. 

After looking at a few different offerings from various canoe and kayak builders I decided on a design offered by Sandy Point Boat Works. They named it ‘Little Rob’. The overall length is 14’ and still retains the original double paddle design with a partial fore and aft deck but no accommodation for sail. 

After receiving the full size patterns and instructional CD’s I set to work first obtaining the required material for building the strong back (frame work that the canoe is built on). I also purchased MDF board for the stations (forms) verses plywood. 

Once the strong back was built and the stations were cut out I positioned them on the strong back as per the plans.

I will include pictures with each post to show progress.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Next step was making the inner and outer stems out of white ash. I cut 0.25” x 0.75” strips. I steam bent them and clamped the on forms to dry.
Once dry I was able to glue the two of the strips together for both the inner and outer stems. These were then positioned on the stem forms. 

Some of the pictures end up rotating themselves 90 degrees.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

Like the pictures. I won't be building a canoe but I l like looking at how things are being done.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Next I purchased rough cedar boards from Home Depot and Menards. I carefully selected knot free boards or almost knot free boards. I must have looked through 100+ boards to find enough good ones. I then ran all of the cedar boards through my planer to a dimension of 0.75”. After planning I cut strips of 0.25” thick. I found that I actually had enough strips to make two canoes so I will be storing some for a future project.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Looks good and well presented. Looking forward to the rest of the build.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Next important step was doing the final alignment of all of the stations from stem to stem. Once everything was square and aligned I stapled some strips to hold the stations firmly in place. 

I then taped all of the edges of the stations so that once I started the gluing and stapling that the cedar strips would not adhere to the stations.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to finally use the router to put a bead on one edge of the cedar strips. It took some time to set the router table up but once set I was able to feed each strip through the router using the subsequent strip to push the previous strip through the router. 

I also put the bead edge on the accent strips that I will be using. The accent strips were Mahogany and Aspen.

Tomorrow I plan to reset the router up to put the cove on the opposite edge.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Great job, Russell. Love the build pictures...keep em coming. I'm sure you will have a bunch of us following your project. Thanks for taking the extra time to take the photos and post them.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Somebody recently asked how many clamps are enough...
Bwahahahaha 
I guess this build puts _that_ question to bed!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Somebody recently asked how many clamps are enough...
> Bwahahahaha
> I guess this build puts _that_ question to bed!


Funny how that always comes up. Whatever that number is, boatbuilding requires 10 times more.

OK, enough of the tomfoolery...now we gotta get to the serious questions.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> A bit of background. I originally posted on the Router Forum to solve a problem I had with my router. As things developed I began to share what I was doing with my router and it was suggested that I begin a new thread focused on the building of a Cedar Strip Canoe.
> 
> The canoe that I am building is a redesign of the original Rob Roy double paddle canoe. It was originally built in 1866 and since that time many variations of the design were developed with changes to the length and beam. The original length of the Rob Roy was 15’ and included a lug sail and jib.
> 
> ...


OK, firstly thanks for starting the build thread. You're going to have lots of followers for this one.

First question. When you built that strong back, did you use winding sticks at both ends? If you're not sure what I'm talking about, then you didn't. It's quite important to do this.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Next question...how many stations do you have athwartships? This is more a curiosity question than anything. I can't quite see them all at one time, looks like around 8 or so.

I see that you have put tape on the edges of the stations...dare I suggest that you take that off and put on some 6 mil poly instead. You're going to be using epoxy (right?) and that will stick to your blue tape.

Before you added the tape, did you use extremely good, long, one piece battens to bring the stations perfectly in line? This is absolutely necessary for a first class job.

More questions later...but the strips look pretty nice!


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> Next step was making the inner and outer stems out of white ash. I cut 0.25” x 0.75” strips. I steam bent them and clamped the on forms to dry.
> Once dry I was able to glue the two of the strips together for both the inner and outer stems. These were then positioned on the stem forms.
> 
> Some of the pictures end up rotating themselves 90 degrees.


Nice job on the stems. First time I did that I was thrilled with how they came out. And they are pretty easy to get into that perfect shape as well when you get to the fairing.

I notice that you have your centre lines marked nicely, good job there.

One thing I used to do (starting to come back to me now) when I mounted the stations, I put a piece of 1/4" plywood between the station and the strong back, just loosely, not glued.

When you are doing the fairing of the stations, you may need to shift one or more either up or down or even twist one slightly. That little space under the station gives you just that little bit of leeway that you may need. You clamp the station to the 2 x 2 that I think you have for the stations to fasten to first - then you do the rough fairing - then you can screw and glue the stations in place. You don't leave the plywood strips in there, that's just to give you fudging room. 

Now for the big question...what do you have for battens?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Russel..
thanks for the thread....

you have an addicted follower...


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Interesting. Thanks for the pictures. How much will it weight when complete?


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm in, I'm happy to follow the build. N


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

This is a really interesting build, thanks for sharing it with us Russell. I'm looking forward to seeing how it progresses.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Russell, thanks for deciding to take the time to document your build. I think down the road, you'll reference and link to this build as often as anyone else  So many variations on a theme  Folks around here will find this of interest if only for the various techniques and process's involved. Not the least of which is watching and following as a quality build progress's. 
Sandy Point boat works is one of the sites I have in my bookmarks. Excellent resource and they have a great selection of plans to choose from. From there I like the Chum and the Prospector. What characteristics in a canoe were you looking for when you were searching for a plan? I REALLY like the idea of a solo canoe, but too many grandkids coming of age and too little time and money. So a tandem will be the choice. I'll assume that you will primarily be paddling flatwater river/lakes? 
Sooooooooooo... are you happy with the plans/DVD supplied by Sandy Point? Did you go with the package (plans/bits/fibreglass/epoxy)? Do you recall just how much cedar
you purchased? The idea of getting enough materials for a 2nd build is something I"ve considered. Around here, cedar strip canoes go for a premium and appear to sell quite quickly. Selling one, would easily pay for the building of both. 
To the point where you are now, what have been the hits and misses? Did you find anything particularly challenging?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

What glue/adhesive did you decide to go with for the laminate portion of your build?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Looking forward to seeing more. Great project.


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## Bodger96 (Mar 18, 2014)

Looking Great Russell! I built a couple of cedar strip canoes in high with a friend and we used the clear packing tape to protect our molds and it worked very well. I also spent 5 years restoring antique wooden boats for a living so I agree with the comment about how many clamps are enough., I sold my small clamps to my boss when I left the boat restoration and have regretted it ever since. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build.

Regards Bob


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

Very nice pictures and details steps.
Allen


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Oboy! Have you ever started a popular thread here! We're all looking forward to the ride! :smile:


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Bodger96 said:


> Looking Great Russell! I built a couple of cedar strip canoes in high with a friend and we used the clear packing tape to protect our molds and it worked very well. I also spent 5 years restoring antique wooden boats for a living so I agree with the comment about how many clamps are enough., I sold my small clamps to my boss when I left the boat restoration and have regretted it ever since. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build.
> 
> Regards Bob


When I sold my boat building/repair business, the buyer wanted all my clamps. No deal, but I did give him about 100 and regretted it ever since. Still buying clamps to this day.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I have to say I am quite amazed at all the comments and questions. Thank you all. I will begin to answer each question once I post my work for today. 

I spent 4 to 5 hours routing the cove into the other edge of the strip. I believe I have around 300 8' strips so it took quite awhile. My hands and my back are quite grateful that this part of the build is behind me.

The pictures include the pile of completed strips, and two showing the cove. Somewhat difficult to see.

Next step will be to sort strips by color and begin scarfing strips together to form 15' to 16' strips. Scarfs will be done at different positions so that all scarfs don't end up in the same position on the boat. After I have the completed lengths of strips, I can then start the actual stripping process.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

like I said...
I'm hooked..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Speaking of your back, have you set up the strongback and forms to a comfortable working height?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> I have to say I am quite amazed at all the comments and questions. Thank you all. I will begin to answer each question once I post my work for today.
> 
> I spent 4 to 5 hours routing the cove into the other edge of the strip. I believe I have around 300 8' strips so it took quite awhile. My hands and my back are quite grateful that this part of the build is behind me.
> 
> ...


The worst part is over...now the real fun starts! :smile:


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> OK, firstly thanks for starting the build thread. You're going to have lots of followers for this one.
> 
> First question. When you built that strong back, did you use winding sticks at both ends? If you're not sure what I'm talking about, then you didn't. It's quite important to do this.


The Strong Back that I built was designed by Sandy Point Boat Works. I have attached some additional pictures showing the design. This design is made up of three parts. The two ends and a middle connector. The top was 1" x 12". The main idea of the strong back is that it is straight and square which in turn will keep the boat straight and square.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Next question...how many stations do you have athwartships? This is more a curiosity question than anything. I can't quite see them all at one time, looks like around 8 or so.
> 
> I see that you have put tape on the edges of the stations...dare I suggest that you take that off and put on some 6 mil poly instead. You're going to be using epoxy (right?) and that will stick to your blue tape.
> 
> ...


There is a total of 9 stations plus the stems. 

I put tape on the edges of all of the stations. The tape will keep the strips from being glued to the stations. The cedar strips that have a bead and cove interlock with each other. A bead of wood glue is used to glue them together. Once all of the strips are glued and stapled in place and the glue dries, you pull all of the staples and then begin the sanding process and preparation for the fiberglass and resin.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Russell, I understand the point of a strongback.

Did you check it with winding sticks? You would be surprised at what usually appears to be a perfect strongback is not always perfect.

Simply make two sticks about 3 feet long and make sure they are perfectly straight and square, somewhere around 2 x 2.

One needs to be a light colour, the other dark. Lay one across one end of your strong back, the other at the opposite end. Sight from one stick to the other and any error will be magnified.

Any error can be fixed with simple shimming. Personally I think this is a good way to ensure your base is off to a good start.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> There is a total of 9 stations plus the stems.
> 
> I put tape on the edges of all of the stations. The tape will keep the strips from being glued to the stations. The cedar strips that have a bead and cove interlock with each other. A bead of wood glue is used to glue them together. Once all of the strips are glued and stapled in place and the glue dries, you pull all of the staples and then begin the sanding process and preparation for the fiberglass and resin.


Hi Russell, yes I saw your tape. 

What sort of glue are you going to use? Are you not using epoxy?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

To answer your question regarding the alignment of the stations. Each station was screwed to a block of wood that would be used to screw the station to the strong back. I then ran a straight line string from stem to stem. I could then easily see if a station was out of alignment. To bring into alignment I would loosen one screw and put a wood shim under that side until it was aligned and then tighten the screw down.

The battens that I used to keep the stations square were just some of the cedar strips.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Knothead47 said:


> Interesting. Thanks for the pictures. How much will it weight when complete?


Estimated weight when complete is 35 lbs. That includes the weight of the cedar, fiberglass and resin.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> To answer your question regarding the alignment of the stations. Each station was screwed to a block of wood that would be used to screw the station to the strong back. I then ran a straight line string from stem to stem. I could then easily see if a station was out of alignment. To bring into alignment I would loosen one screw and put a wood shim under that side until it was aligned and then tighten the screw down.
> 
> The battens that I used to keep the stations square were just some of the cedar strips.


Sounds good Russell. Ideally, a one piece full length batten would be a touch better.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Russell, thanks for deciding to take the time to document your build. I think down the road, you'll reference and link to this build as often as anyone else  So many variations on a theme  Folks around here will find this of interest if only for the various techniques and process's involved. Not the least of which is watching and following as a quality build progress's.
> Sandy Point boat works is one of the sites I have in my bookmarks. Excellent resource and they have a great selection of plans to choose from. From there I like the Chum and the Prospector. What characteristics in a canoe were you looking for when you were searching for a plan? I REALLY like the idea of a solo canoe, but too many grandkids coming of age and too little time and money. So a tandem will be the choice. I'll assume that you will primarily be paddling flatwater river/lakes?
> Sooooooooooo... are you happy with the plans/DVD supplied by Sandy Point? Did you go with the package (plans/bits/fibreglass/epoxy)? Do you recall just how much cedar
> you purchased? The idea of getting enough materials for a 2nd build is something I"ve considered. Around here, cedar strip canoes go for a premium and appear to sell quite quickly. Selling one, would easily pay for the building of both.
> To the point where you are now, what have been the hits and misses? Did you find anything particularly challenging?


I only have high praise for Sandy Point Boat Works. I looked a many different sites that offered plans for both canoes and kayaks. What attracted my about Sandy Point was that I called them one day just to ask a few questions about the Little Rob. The owner Jack took the time to go over everything with me and told me I could call anytime. 

In fact over the last few days I emailed Jack a question on scarfing and he answered my emails within hours. 

As to why I chose the Little Rob. I looked at a number of different designs and for some reason I really liked how the solo, double paddle canoe looked. I liked the fuller deck both for and aft. My wife and I are both kayakers and we love being on the water but I wanted something made out of wood. For the last two years I have been taking a class each year at The Wooden Boat School. Guess I got bit by the wooden boat bug. 

As to the kind of water I will be using the canoe on. I live in Wisconsin and about 20 minutes from Lake Michigan, which I have sailed on for many years. But where we live we have the North Branch of Milwaukee River running through our property. So we do a lot of kayaking on the river. We also have some small inland lakes nearby. 

Back to Sandy River Boat Works. The CD's are excellent and the full sized plans were great. There is also a small booklet that covers the high points of the build. As far as finding anything difficult or a game stopper. So far I have not found anything beyond my abilities. I am not a seasoned wood worker so I am learning as I go. I would however recommend a book that is excellent and follows along with what Sandy Point Boat Works offers. The book is called CanoeCraft by Ted Moores. You can find used ones on Amazon for around $10. Well worth the investment. But I think the biggest plus to going with Sandy Point is the customer service and the ease of having questions answered. 

Regarding what I bought as far as a kit, etc. I purchased the full size plans and the CD's. I also purchased the fiberglass and resin kit from Sandy Point (see picture). All of the wood I have thus far purchased from either Home Depot or Menards. And the Mahogany and Aspen and White Ash I was able to find at a local Fleet/Farm. I decided that I wanted to make all my strips and anything involving wood. I also plan to make my own seat and do the webbing. All of this might take me more time than buying a "Complete Kit", but I am enjoying this. And to steal a line from Jack at Sandy Point Boat Works - "Enjoy the Journey".

Hope all of this helps.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Speaking of your back, have you set up the strongback and forms to a comfortable working height?


Yes, I was encouraged by a few different people to make sure I set the strong back to the correct height. Jack from Sandy Point also made sure that I considered that prior to building the strong back.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Hi Russell, yes I saw your tape.
> 
> What sort of glue are you going to use? Are you not using epoxy?


I will just be using a wood glue like Elmer's or Titebond. The glue only holds the wood strips together and once the fiberglass cloth and resin is applied to both the outside hull and the inside of the hull, the wood is encapsulated and never comes in contact with water.

Basically the wood portion of the canoe is sealed between two layers of fiberglass cloth and clear resin so that all you see is the wood.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Sounds good Russell. Ideally, a one piece full length batten would be a touch better.


The battens are only temporary. Once you begin the stripping of the boat, the battens are removed and the full length strips will go from stem to stern.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

I have my bowl of popcorn, so I'm ready to go!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Just a suggestion and the others with boat building experience may not agree with on glue. PL 400 in a caulking tube is excellent adhesive that is waterproof, more temperature tolerant when applying, and remains flexible when dry. It also bridges a gap of up to 3/8 inch. Some glues, like polyurethane, won`t bridge a gap at all. I realize the fibreglass is strong enough that it may not matter but to me the PL400 would be a little insurance.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

several notches up from the PL400 is PL premium...
more gooder stuff..
paint thinner clean up...


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Russell, thanks for deciding to take the time to document your build. I think down the road, you'll reference and link to this build as often as anyone else  So many variations on a theme  Folks around here will find this of interest if only for the various techniques and process's involved. Not the least of which is watching and following as a quality build progress's.
> Sandy Point boat works is one of the sites I have in my bookmarks. Excellent resource and they have a great selection of plans to choose from. From there I like the Chum and the Prospector. What characteristics in a canoe were you looking for when you were searching for a plan? I REALLY like the idea of a solo canoe, but too many grandkids coming of age and too little time and money. So a tandem will be the choice. I'll assume that you will primarily be paddling flatwater river/lakes?
> Sooooooooooo... are you happy with the plans/DVD supplied by Sandy Point? Did you go with the package (plans/bits/fibreglass/epoxy)? Do you recall just how much cedar
> you purchased? The idea of getting enough materials for a 2nd build is something I"ve considered. Around here, cedar strip canoes go for a premium and appear to sell quite quickly. Selling one, would easily pay for the building of both.
> To the point where you are now, what have been the hits and misses? Did you find anything particularly challenging?


Hi Bill,last year I watched a video on YouTube called "Ranger Prospector Canoe Build-part 1"which shows Martin' Choi constructing a cedar strip canoe from start to finish.I found it good to watch & you may like it also.Best wishes,James.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Funny how that always comes up. Whatever that number is, boatbuilding requires 10 times more.
> 
> OK, enough of the tomfoolery...now we gotta get to the serious questions.


try a spiral staircase and see how many it takes,,,

hundreds just to get started..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> To answer your question regarding the alignment of the stations. Each station was screwed to a block of wood that would be used to screw the station to the strong back. I then ran a straight line string from stem to stem. I could then easily see if a station was out of alignment. To bring into alignment I would loosen one screw and put a wood shim under that side until it was aligned and then tighten the screw down.
> 
> The battens that I used to keep the stations square were just some of the cedar strips.


FWIW...
Winding sticks...

What Are Winding Sticks
Lee Valley Winding Sticks - Lee Valley Tools


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

jj777746 said:


> Hi Bill,last year I watched a video on YouTube called "Ranger Prospector Canoe Build-part 1"which shows Martin' Choi constructing a cedar strip canoe from start to finish.I found it good to watch & you may like it also.Best wishes,James.


Thank ya James... I had both of Choi's vid's in my bookmarks. Interesting thing about Choi's build is the use of what appears to be
wooden washers. Im guessing to help hold down the strips near the lower sides and bottom of the canoe.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell, a couple of observations to this point. Please keep in mind, this is NOT a commentary nor a criticism of your build. Rather a couple of questions that come to my mind. There are times when I do tend to overthink things...keep in mind that this is coming from a guy who has never built a canoe so the variables are considerable 

1st, looking at the pics of your stations. It may just be the pic itself, I dunno. But it looks to be like there are low spots on several of the stations edges. The reason I bring this up is that I would think that any low spots in the station will create low spots in the hull of the canoe. Since you are going to staple the strips in position I don't know that you'll be able to overcome the low spots. Structurally probably not a big deal, but cosmetically this may present a problem. It may very well be that after removing the staples everything may come back into line. I kinda doubt it, but certainly a possibility. 

2nd, you mentioned bringing the stations inline by unscrewing and shimming one side of the station then tightening the screws back down. I would think that by essentially lifting one side you change the the stations relationship with the station behind and in front of it on both sides. I think that moving the station left/right on the horizontal would be the way to go. I suspect the amount of shimming you had to do was minimal so it may not matter. Then again...........


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

For you folks who find this interesting...here's a video I came across that does a nice job of telling you about a strip canoe without going into too much detail


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> FWIW...
> Winding sticks...
> 
> What Are Winding Sticks
> Lee Valley Winding Sticks - Lee Valley Tools


Now I know what winding sticks are. Thanks.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Russell, a couple of observations to this point. Please keep in mind, this is NOT a commentary nor a criticism of your build. Rather a couple of questions that come to my mind. There are times when I do tend to overthink things...keep in mind that this is coming from a guy who has never built a canoe so the variables are considerable
> 
> 1st, looking at the pics of your stations. It may just be the pic itself, I dunno. But it looks to be like there are low spots on several of the stations edges. The reason I bring this up is that I would think that any low spots in the station will create low spots in the hull of the canoe. Since you are going to staple the strips in position I don't know that you'll be able to overcome the low spots. Structurally probably not a big deal, but cosmetically this may present a problem. It may very well be that after removing the staples everything may come back into line. I kinda doubt it, but certainly a possibility.
> 
> 2nd, you mentioned bringing the stations inline by unscrewing and shimming one side of the station then tightening the screws back down. I would think that by essentially lifting one side you change the the stations relationship with the station behind and in front of it on both sides. I think that moving the station left/right on the horizontal would be the way to go. I suspect the amount of shimming you had to do was minimal so it may not matter. Then again...........


Bill – Thanks for the observations. 

Note that I take all comments as constructive as I am learning as I go. So I appreciate any comments or suggestions coming from others. I am not offended at any constructive comment. 

Regarding the low spots on the stations. You cannot see under the tape but I did do some building up of the low spots. I got them the best I could. Hopefully they will not impact the final shape of the canoe drastically. I know when I watched that part of the video, all of the stations looked perfect. 

As to alignment using shims. On this I was following the instructions and video commentary. I think the main goal here was to make sure that the stations are centered. The bottom edge of each station is where the sheer line will be and once I begin laying down strips, which begin at the sheer line I will get a better picture of what the hull will look like and hopefully both port and starboard sides will be symmetrical.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Excellent video. They also recommend the book that I mentioned previously. CanoeCraft by Ted Moores. A must read if you are planning to build a cedar strip canoe.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

good deal Russell!!! the more I looked at those stations the more I thought they were going to give you a problem down the road. I went over to the Sandy Point website and found a brief description of using the wedge to bring your stations back inline. I have to admit, I just can't get that right in my minds eye..but it seems to be a proven method, at least by Sandy Point, so who am I to argue *L*.. There' actually quite a bit of good info at that site if you look around. 
I'm a fairly decent woodworker and an absolute zero when it comes to canoe builds, so I take as much out of these kind of threads as I can. One way or the other, we all have a bit of a learning curve dont we?  If/when I get around to doing my own, I'd like to think that I've pretty much got it built already between the ears sort-a-speak. I won't get ahead of you too much on your build, as what your up to right now is the most important thing, til the next thing comes along. Are you 100% comfortable with your stongback and stations? I suspect you are, but if your not, step back and make em right before you move forward. Everything I have come across including CanoeCraft by T. Moore (this is my go to reference btw) say you must be spot on. The strong back design is a proven one. I've seen that one used many times. I like that to a large extent it is fully adjustable. Giving you options for down the road and future builds. Local Craigs list ad has a 18' 3x5 aluminum strongback and stations for a Nick Shades Micro Bootlegger kayak. 150 bucks. I want to plan and lay mine out start to finish but dang, what a deal for someone....

Just an opinion here on adhesives. I realize that pva's are pretty well accepted, but from what I"ve gathered, there are much better alternatives. Take a evening an look into em. If you do go with the PVA,,, I'd go with Titebond II or III. III will give you a bit of water resistance (not water proof) and II will give you a bit more open time.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I like that video if only because it gave a real good overview, not too much on anyone thing, but gave ya a good feel for what your getting into. Yep, as mentioned earlier, I have the CanoeCraft book. I use it as pretty much the last word on a build. I read something somewhere, and if it strikes a cord, I reference CanoeCraft for clarification.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> good deal Russell!!! the more I looked at those stations the more I thought they were going to give you a problem down the road. I went over to the Sandy Point website and found a brief description of using the wedge to bring your stations back inline. I have to admit, I just can't get that right in my minds eye..but it seems to be a proven method, at least by Sandy Point, so who am I to argue *L*.. There' actually quite a bit of good info at that site if you look around.
> I'm a fairly decent woodworker and an absolute zero when it comes to canoe builds, so I take as much out of these kind of threads as I can. One way or the other, we all have a bit of a learning curve dont we?  If/when I get around to doing my own, I'd like to think that I've pretty much got it built already between the ears sort-a-speak. I won't get ahead of you too much on your build, as what your up to right now is the most important thing, til the next thing comes along. Are you 100% comfortable with your stongback and stations? I suspect you are, but if your not, step back and make em right before you move forward. Everything I have come across including CanoeCraft by T. Moore (this is my go to reference btw) say you must be spot on. The strong back design is a proven one. I've seen that one used many times. I like that to a large extent it is fully adjustable. Giving you options for down the road and future builds. Local Craigs list ad has a 18' 3x5 aluminum strongback and stations for a Nick Shades Micro Bootlegger kayak. 150 bucks. I want to plan and lay mine out start to finish but dang, what a deal for someone....
> 
> Just an opinion here on adhesives. I realize that pva's are pretty well accepted, but from what I"ve gathered, there are much better alternatives. Take a evening an look into em. If you do go with the PVA,,, I'd go with Titebond II or III. III will give you a bit of water resistance (not water proof) and II will give you a bit more open time.


Bill - after going through and reading your comments and thoughts and how you are also researching things like the Sandy Point Boat Works website and some of the video's and tips that they offer, I really think you should select a design of a canoe and do a build. I am very similar to you in that I had gone over in my mind many times of how to build this canoe. I read books, searched websites and did a search on Google for others that built canoes and documented their project. From each one I gathered a little bit more information and determined in my mind of what I liked and didn't like as well as what procedure or process I would use, etc. I guess I approached this in a very methodical way. I planned ahead the best I could. Hopefully I planned correctly. 

So I see that you are going through a similar process and you definitely have an interest. I also see you having much more capabilities and confidence in your skills so I think you would enjoy such a project. Just my thoughts.

In answer to your question on my confidence on the strong back. I am as confident as I can be with knowing what I know. I followed instructions and checked my measurements and squared everything up the best I could. I also realize that I will be working with wood and there is a margin of error that can be worked with and still be successful with the end product. For many years, and this we prior to college, I owned and operated a hand made leather shop. I learned to work with my hands and I also learned to work with minor errors or mistakes and turn those into a final finished product that only I knew anything about the mistakes. I guess I am saying that I will certainly learn as I continue to build this canoe. Will I make mistakes ....... I am sure I will. I just hope that I learn from them and incorporate that learning into skills so that I don't repeat them. The worse thing that I can think of happening is I don't keep the bottom of the canoe straight and the canoe ends up not tracking like it should. Hopefully it won't be so bad that I will only be able to paddle around in circles. 

As to glue.... I went to Menards yesterday and selected Titebond II. I will be using this for running beads of glue between each of the strips. 

My next step is to scarf some of my strips together. I spend part of yesterday sorting some of the strips by color. So today I plan to make a jig to cut an angle accurately and then another jig for gluing. I also have to begin fairing the stem pieces so that as the strips are put on the stem that they come in at the proper angle.

Hopefully by this coming week I will be in the position of laying down the strips beginning from the sheer line. Here again I will be following the instructions from the video. 

I will continue to detail the build as best as possible.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I finished making a cutting jig and a gluing jig. 

The cutting jig doesn't provide as much scarf as I wanted but since these scarfs are not load bearing I don't think they will be an issue.
I built the cutting jig so that I could cut two strips at the same time with the same angle. I am using a Japanese pull saw for making the cuts.

I then use a gluing jig that I can glue two strips at the same time. I have covered everything with painter's tape so that I will be able to remove the finished strips without them sticking. Once I remove them I will lightly sand them and will now have a 16' strip. As I go along I will make the scarf joints at different locations along each strip so that all of the scarfs don't end up in the same place. If you look closely where I made some marks you will be able to see where the two strips are joined together. The last picture shows the two strips in a 16' length drying.

It will be a somewhat slow process with only being able to glue two at a time but I am okay with that. I only have to make about 65 full length (16') strips.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Russell, Yeah, I agree with you, I really should go ahead and go for it. I know I"d enjoy the build. I had been sold on a particular design, but since the onset of this thread, I've begun to reconsider my choice. Not for any aspect of the build, rather for the intended use of the canoe. 
On one hand, there are many places to go and enjoy flat water around here. There are plenty of lakes and rivers within an easy drive. Ideal for a strip canoe. One the other hand, there are quite a few sections of rivers and streams that depending on the time of year and who's controlling the dams, there are alot of nice class I and II runs to be had. There is a section of stream here that 30 years ago, a friend and I made a 3 day trek. One of the most memorable times of my mis-spent youth.  This is a run I dearly want to do with my grandson. But, we literally tore up a 17' fiber glass boat on that run. The last 3 miles were spent with my bud paddling and me bailing out the canoe with a 1 gal plastic milk container we found and cut up just to stay afloat *L* A lot of narrows, a lot of shallows, a lot of portaging and alot of jagged rocks under the water line that despite our best efforts we just could not avoid. Conditions that an Old Town or Mad River canoe today would just blush at, but a stripper might just cry *L*... anyways,,,,, I"m in no hurry, This summer will be the tell of the tape. If he takes to it as I hope he will, then its on, if not, maybe I just go with a longer, more comfortable flat water design....with back rests of course 

Yeah, I got the skills and background to build one without much concern with regards to the mechanics of it, but as my grandfather once told me, "Anyone can dig a ditch, not everyone can swing a shovel".. These kinds of builds are all about the choices we make. From design and construction, materials and application to the right canoe for the job...Mistakes to some degree will most likely be made, regardless. Be they from inexperience or from not paying attention and over-site. You adapt and overcome and in the process become the better craftsman for it. I have to give ya credit for jumping in with both feet and going for it. You will no doubt run into problems and when ya do, there is a wealth of extremely knowledgeable and talented folks in here. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may come up with. Better to court a problem before hand than to engage it afterwards. 

ok, enough philoso'syzin! 

I like the jig, plain and straight forward, very practical/functional. Should serve you well. I do question the shallow angle of the scarf itself. IIRC Canoecraft suggested something like a 6 or 7" scarf. That shallow of an angle, you are essentially dealing with more end-grain than long-grain. PVA glues (Titebond II) and end-grain joinery don't really get along. Especially in a porous wood like cedar. Now, having said that, this isn't the voice of experience talkin' here. Just a concern I would have and would want to pursue before getting too deep into the woods sorta speak. I would suggest that you take a couple of 12" pieces and do the scarf joint just as you normally would. Let it dry overnight. Then take the wood, place it over a 2x4 sitting on its side and press down on both ends. If the cedar breaks clean of the scarf joint then I'd say you're golden, if any portion of the break is at the joint itself I'd reconsider my options. Do a 2nd or 3rd test if need be.......since this particular joint will be pervasive though out your build and consume a considerable amount of build time, I'd want to make darn certain its gonna be reliable down the river...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I really gotta give that "Post QUICK reply" a try sometime


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Russ just from the looks it appears that the scarf angle is about 30*. I was making some arch rafters for a while and by code I was required to make the scarf about 9" long for 3/4" thick material. I don't know what the angles were as the length was all I needed for the jig and I can't remember what the code said about it now but I think that angle is too blunt. I couldn't use a chop saw to make my angle, I had to make a jig and use a circular saw.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

With a few extra minutes to think about it it seems to me that the acceptable slope ratio was 1/12.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Bill - Just a quick reply to part of your text. I agree with you as to the scarf being too small. I am just heading out to check out if what I did works. I will use your suggestion as to how to test strength of scarf. But I am thinking that I am going to have to come up with another way to cut a longer scarf. I remember seeing a setup using a bench sander (rotating disk) by setting up some guides and feed the end of the strips into the disk and have the sander do the work. 

I will let you know how that works out.

Regarding what canoe to build. I have 4 children and 9 grandchildren and we have kayaks and a large heavy canoe. But I wanted to build something just for me. I also really liked the looks of the single seat double paddle design. The fore and aft deck were particularly appealing to me. I haven't decided on what those decks portions look like yet but I don't have to make that decision for quite some time. 

Perhaps after I finish this canoe I will evaluate about making a second one. I have thought about using the same design but just adding some additional stations in the middle to lengthen the boat out another 2 or 3 feet. I don't know if that is possible but those are at least my thoughts. 

More later.....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell... totally agree on reworking the scarfs. Your jig should do you just fine, just need to modify it to allow for a longer cut. I dug up my CanoeCraft book and looked it up. It is suggested the scarf be 7"s long on a 1" wide plank. The scarf is cut along the face of the plank and not the edge. If the pull-saw you have can't handle a cut of that length, the big box stores carry a double edged pull-saw that should suffice. These saws have rip teeth on one side and crosscut on the other. Only challenge may be that there is no spine to the saw, so the blade is kinda flimsy and takes a little practice to get the hang of cutting a straight line. Second choice and a much better one would be a "Dozuki" cross-cut saw. Very narrow kerf, super clean cut, cuts very quickly. a moderately priced investement saw. here's a link to both types in case your not familiar: 

Shop IRWIN Double Edge Pull Saw at Lowes.com

Dozuki Cross-cut Saw | stewmac.com

MMMMMMmmmmmmm a solo canoe...ohhhh *L* my!!! Exactly my personnel choice, double paddle,,,and the fore and aft decks are sweet. I'd look into making them for dry storage somehow. I spent a couple hours last night on YouTube watching kayaking and canoeing video's. The juices started flowing, heart started pounding, memories started flooding back......ohhh yeah says I. 
Then I hobbled my way to the fridge and got a glass of milk....a stark reminder of just how much things have changed *LOL*...Its fun to think of just what course this may take in the end...

I've wondered if what you suggest is indeed possible. I would think, that given the right plans, extending a boat another couple feet with additional stations placed mid-ships would be very doable...it could either be a very good thing, or very bad thing *L* more homework...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I found that, as I thought, and was also read, that my scarfs were too short and did not work. In fact the glue (Titebond II) didn't even work that well. So now plan B.

I set up a jig using my bench sander. The one picture shows the guide that I clamped in place and now I get a scare of about 1:6. I am holding one strip in place for the picture. I think that is the maximum that is possible with only a 0.25" thick piece of wood. Now I can feed the ends into the sander and it sands a nice uniform angle. So I have clamped a couple of pieces to see how gluing more to the long grain helps. I am not overly confident on the glue.

I think I need to use something like Gorilla Glue that creates a much better bond. But I am not sure if that will leave a line or a discoloration on the strip that I will not be able to sand out. I ran this question by the people at Sandy Point Boat Works and they indicated that I should use epoxy with some wheat flour mixed in. The only problem I see with that is that I can only glue two strips at a time and that would mean mixing up very small batches of epoxy. So my question is, is there a glue like Gorilla Glue that I can use to glue cedar strips together and not create an issue with sanding or visual issue once the hull is sanded and then covered with glass and epoxy?

While I was waiting for the two strips to dry I began working on angling the stems so that the strips would sit flush and flat on the inner stem. I first marked the inner stems and then I used a spoke shave to take most of the wood down to the pencil line. This was the first time that I used a large spoke shave. I had bought some at a rummage sale last summer and I wanted to give them a try. I was quite impressed with the results. I then used a palm sander to finish off the angle.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Russ it's going to be hard to hide the scarf joints partly because there are such wide color variations in cedar. The change in color draws the eye to the transition point. The Gorilla glue is a better choice than T2 0r T3 but still not as good as filled epoxy.

If the tool with the handles that is shown is what you were referring to as a spokeshave then that is actually a draw knife.
Veritas® Flat, Round and Concave Spokeshaves - Lee Valley Tools
Austrian Drawknife - Lee Valley Tools


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Charles - you are correct about the draw knife. I guess I called it a spokeshave as I have a few of them which I have used for half-hull model building. Of course the spokeshaves are much smaller. Thanks for keeping me straight on terminology. 

As to glue - possibly I will have to come up with a plan to glue more strips at the same time. I will have to think on this and how I might accomplish it.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

The simpler solution would be to cut one piece strips.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

As to 16’ lengths of cedar. I tried to obtain 16’ lengths at a number of local lumber yards but no one could guarantee that I would actually get 16’ lengths and the cost was more than I wanted to commit to. So I am doing what I can by being selective on 8’ boards. I believe I came out with some pretty good wood and it was all available at Home Depot and Menards (a Wisconsin based company). Ideally it would have been nice to have one strip the entire 16’ length but I will work with what I have.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Since my first attempt at gluing my scarf joints together was not successful I have made the following changes.

•	Changed the angle on my sander that gives me a scarf of 1:7 or 1:8 which will provide me with move surface area for gluing.
•	Moved my gluing operation into my house as I cannot maintain a warm enough temperature in my shop to allow the glue to set up and dry properly. Temperature today was 10 degrees F with light snow.
•	I will be using epoxy instead of Titebond II glue to make the scarf joints.

Hopefully these changes will give me success in making my 16’ strips.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> •	Changed the angle on my sander that gives me a scarf of 1:7 or 1:8 which will provide me with move surface area for gluing.
> •	Moved my gluing operation into my house as I cannot maintain a warm enough temperature in my shop to allow the glue to set up and dry properly. Temperature today was 10 degrees F with light snow.
> •	I will be using epoxy instead of Titebond II glue to make the scarf joints.
> 
> Hopefully these changes will give me success in making my 16’ strips.


Excellent, now you're heading in the right direction.

Given that your temperature out your way is just plain cold, make sure that your glue up area is warm enough for the epoxy to set up and cure in a timely fashion. Certainly a minimum of 65ºF - higher would be better.

Use cab-o-sil (or any silica thickener) when mixing your epoxy.

While a standard batch is 3 ounces, you won't be using anywhere near that much to glue up - let's say 10 joints. See if you have some way of accurately measuring out half that much.

By the way, I noticed that when I was perusing the Sandy Point website that he referred to Systems 3 and West System as epoxy manufacturers. Not so, they are blenders. While I have not checked on this for probably over 15 years, there used to be only two actual manufacturers of epoxy. They were Ceiba Geigy and Shell. Everyone else is a blender.

My supplier was Reichhold, a big wholesaler who handled something like 400 different resins. I used to get 6 55 gallon drums at a time. That's a lot of epoxy!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

10*F is definitely too cold for a pva glue. They fail if they freeze. I think it is also too cold for polyurethane. Seems to me without walking out to my shop that 50F is the minimum for it. With that said, most epoxies also like it warm, in fact warmer than most other glues.


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## rbs (Jan 6, 2009)

great read so far, following!


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I didn't mean that the temperature of my shop was 10 degrees. I have an insulated shop which is 25' x 12'. Basically one bay of a three car garage. 

I use a propane heater which can bring the temperature in the shop up to about 60 degrees but the concrete floor is still very cold and I can't continue to heat it for any long period of time due to the cost. So bringing the gluing process inside so far is working out quite well. 

I glued the first 12 strips together using epoxy resin. It is drying now and I will check it later once it has dried enough. Hopefully I can epoxy another 12 later tonight and let those sit overnight.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ok, sounds like your back in business Russell.. very cool... couple of good lessons learned already...I have to think that the Titebond failure was more due to such a short end-grain surface than the glue itself. Sounds like temps may have also played a role. In the end though, having played your hand, the epoxy resin sounds like a much more
sound application. What kind of open times does the mfg. of the resin's give ya? Are you being careful to watch the application of the epoxy/resin for squeeze out? Having a problem with staining isn't a concern since your not going to stain *L*, but minor 'lumps' might be if the squeeze out is excessive and allowed to dry, especially at the bead and cove portion of the plank ,,,,, know what I mean?

check and make sure that the cove and bead are on-plane from one plank to the other. It may not be perfect, but it gotta be damn close to it. A little caution now could save ya alot of time later...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> 10*F is definitely too cold for a pva glue. They fail if they freeze. I think it is also too cold for polyurethane. Seems to me without walking out to my shop that 50F is the minimum for it. With that said, most epoxies also like it warm, in fact warmer than most other glues.


Yes, that's true.

A little something to remember about epoxy. When you mix the epoxy and any thixotropic agent with it, the standard batch is 3 ounces. More or less is perfectly OK, as long as you keep the mixing ratio precisely right.

With the epoxy mixed for 3 minutes, you're good to go.

Epoxy remaining in the mixing container will kick off quite quickly, being as it is in a confined space. As soon as it is spread out, be it in a large area when applying fabric, or doing a joint glue up, the kick time extends considerably. This is where you need the heat.

As far as I know, all the manufacturers have charts which show what the kick time will be at any given temperature. This only applies to epoxy in the mixing vessel, not when it is spread out. 

I always urge anyone using epoxy to test for the kick time in the real world. More often than not, epoxy will kick slower than you think. However, if you see the epoxy start to smoke in your mixing vessel, guess what...too late chum!

Do not let yourself get distracted by anything once you start your mix. Much better that you get your mix all used up well before it starts to kick off. Once it starts you can no longer spread the epoxy well at all.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Keith, by "Kick off", do you mean start to set-up?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Keith, by "Kick off", do you mean start to set-up?


In a manner of speaking.

Epoxy sets up on whatever it is you are gluing. It kicks off when it is in the mixing vessel. The difference is that when the epoxy starts to set up, that's what you have been waiting for. 

If it starts to kick in your mixing vessel, it will harden very rapidly. And it may well smoke...it can get very hot. So hot that you cannot hold on to the mixing vessel. That's what you hope doesn't happen.

You can keep track of how your mix is doing by stirring it often. If it still stirs well and remains smooth, you're golden. As soon as you see any sign of skinning over, or lumps forming, you're done with that batch. Don't think that you can save it. You cannot.

I used to note the time on my shop clock when mixing every batch. You need to make sure that you can glue up whatever is is you're doing before the open time expires.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> I didn't mean that the temperature of my shop was 10 degrees.


Yes, I understood that Russell. Good grief, you'd freeze to death trying to work in conditions like that.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Familar with Uria Resin adhesives?

Pre-Catalyzed Powder Resin


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Familar with Uria Resin adhesives?
> 
> Pre-Catalyzed Powder Resin


Yes indeed. I worked at a high end yacht outfit donkeys years ago. That was all we used. Good stuff.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

would you suggest it on something like this build? I found it to be extremely reasonable to work it...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> would you suggest it on something like this build? I found it to be extremely reasonable to work it...


I agree it's good to work with, but no I wouldn't do a cedar strip canoe with it.

One of the main reasons for the epoxy, is that every single strip gets encased fully with epoxy. What this does is to essentially waterproof every piece of wood in the canoe individually.

The boats I worked on back in the day were big yachts with 'glass hulls.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The most likely reason the Titebond didn't work was glue starvation. Because of the open grain on both sides I would say that the wood sucked the water out of the glue and possibly too much glue into the side it was applied to. When gluing end grain I like to apply glue to both sides of the joint and wait a few minutes to see if I need to add a little more before trying to join them. I usually get a pretty good bond that way. Not that I'm recommending you go back to using T2.

One other reason for using epoxy is that oily, resinous woods like cedar, redwood, and teak don't take water based glues all that well. Where a strong bond is required epoxies are always recommended.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

to use TB the cedar needs to be treated as oily wood glue up...
either do that way, go w/ the PL Premium or epoxy...
also end grain WRC needs to be sized...

PDF on the oily wood glue up was posted already..


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

how bout a half lap or finger joint for the planks? more function than appearance...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't think I was allowed when making arch rafters. I think there might be a shear plane at the crotches of the laps.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

My last few days have been spent epoxying strips together. Working in the house where it is warm is a real blessing. Not only is it good for me but it certainly is good for the gluing process. I individually glue each strip and then wrap some poly around it so it does not stick to the next strip. I can only do about 8 to 10 strips at a time due to my setup, but that is fine. Some of my strips come out better than others. It is difficult to align them sometimes. Once dry I take the wrapping off of them and let them dry some more prior to sanding any glue that has squeezed out. I have about 20% of the strips finished that I need. I have been using only the epoxy and hardner, no wheat flour. The joints come out quite clear. Once I have around 50 strips finished and ready to go I will start the actual stripping process. 

More as I get to the next step.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> My last few days have been spent epoxying strips together. Working in the house where it is warm is a real blessing. Not only is it good for me but it certainly is good for the gluing process. I individually glue each strip and then wrap some poly around it so it does not stick to the next strip. I can only do about 8 to 10 strips at a time due to my setup, but that is fine. Some of my strips come out better than others. It is difficult to align them sometimes. Once dry I take the wrapping off of them and let them dry some more prior to sanding any glue that has squeezed out. I have about 20% of the strips finished that I need. I have been using only the epoxy and hardner, no wheat flour. The joints come out quite clear. Once I have around 50 strips finished and ready to go I will start the actual stripping process.
> 
> More as I get to the next step.


Russel, did you check and make sure that the glued joints are solid? I didn't notice you mentioning that you had tested the arrangement. I'd hate for you to get them all glued up and find that the strength was inadequate.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Hi Russell, wood flour won't do much for your joints, so I'm glad to see that you didn't use it. But a silica thickener (cab-o-sil for example) will help considerably to keep the epoxy in place in the joint. Using just enough to thicken the mix so it doesn't run will do the job. Don't worry about any minor colour change, it will only appear to be slightly whiter and will hardly show at all in the end.

It is also a good gap filler.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I bought some West Systems epoxy a little while back and they recommended using dryer lint for filler. I don't see why not. Lint is just very fine pieces of fiber.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I bought some West Systems epoxy a little while back and they recommended using dryer lint for filler. I don't see why not. Lint is just very fine pieces of fiber.


West recommended dryer lint??? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. How would you know what kind of fiber? What do you do if you use a clothesline? And please don't mention belly button lint!

Actually I would like to see a batch of lint filled epoxy and compare it to cab-o-sil. I really doubt that the dryer lint would mix at all well.

Stick with the recommended and proven thixotropic agents. Cab-o-sil was always my favourite, due to its' versatility. Mini fibres is another, but they serve different purposes. Microballoons is a filler, but it isn't thixotropic. Every filler has its' purpose.

By the way, any time you get near any of the fine fillers, wear your mask.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I think at this point I'd stack up several rows of the strips, lightly clamp and get an idea of how well this all worked out... check for fitment, gaps, bumps, etc... Should give you a good feel for what your in for...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I think at this point I'd stack up several rows of the strips, lightly clamp and get an idea of how well this all worked out... check for fitment, gaps, bumps, etc... Should give you a good feel for what your in for...


Agreed.

One of the problems with doing the glue up after first running the bead and cove is that you need perfect registration of the bead/cove with each other.

That can be achieved by pressing the coved side into a short piece of beaded strip...that will keep them in line. You would use a piece of very thin plastic between the strips to prevent sticking. Something like Saran wrap works for this.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> how bout a half lap or finger joint for the planks? more function than appearance...


Actually, you are 50% right.

When using the 1/4" strips, you can't use either type of joint. But if your strips are thicker, you can use the finger joint. I'll explain...

I did a 42' long cedar strip proa. The strips were 11/16" thick finished. Finger joints kept the ends perfectly aligned and strong. You do not pre-glue the pieces, but rather glue them up right on the boat itself. I can't begin to imagine trying to handle a piece of very floppy 42' long cedar strip!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

exactly, thats what I'd be lookin' for...

Strictly from a cosmetic's perspective, I'd be paying particular attention to how the glue lines look. I suspect that Russell has now used an effective adhesive, so next is a matter of fitment and what all may or may not be involved with achieving the look these kind of canoe's are known for. Personally I don't think there is a better looking canoe on the water than a cedar strip.....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

cocobolo1 said:


> Actually, you are 50% right.
> 
> When using the 1/4" strips, you can't use either type of joint. But if your strips are thicker, you can use the finger joint. I'll explain...
> 
> I did a 42' long cedar strip proa. The strips were 11/16" thick finished. Finger joints kept the ends perfectly aligned and strong. You do not pre-glue the pieces, but rather glue them up right on the boat itself. I can't begin to imagine trying to handle a piece of very floppy 42' long cedar strip!


just did a google on "Proa".....

dang!!! now thats a handfull of a build..


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> just did a google on "Proa".....
> 
> dang!!! now thats a handfull of a build..


I also did a 20' proa, not exactly the traditional type, but it was a cedar strip boat. That was 20 years ago in my pre-digital photo days. Don't know if I have a pic on the old desktop or not...I'll look.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Russell, this one's for you.

When you get your strips all glued, separate them into two piles, one for the port side, the other for the starboard side.

Try to match - as closely as possible - two sets of colours. Be really fussy when you are doing the colours.

Before starting the attachment to your mould stations, lay out the strips on a flat surface in whatever order looks most attractive to you. Play with some sort of design, particularly from the sheer line down to the waterline, as this is what you see mostly.

Once you are pleased with the colour portion, then try to make some sort of deliberate pattern with the joints. One thing to remember is that you should strive to have a minimum of two strips between any location where the joints fall in the same line. In other words, never put two joints right on top of one another. The more you can separate the joints, the better.

This dry run will save you time in the long run, and if you number your strips in their preferred order, you will save time when the stripping process begins. Without numbering, it's really easy to get the strips all mixed up, believe me!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A couple of quick questions at this point. 

Would it have been better to do the scarfing prior to cutting the cove/bead? This may be problematic due to the possibility of limited space in the designated work area. If the transition between two planks is parallel/even and there are no unnecessary gaps between planks (top of bead/bottom of cove contact, not something you'd easily see off-hand) , then its just a mute point. six on one/half dozen of the other...

Is there an advantage to making the scarf cut across the width vs. along the length of the plank in these kind of applications?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Keith - in answer to your great suggestions. 

I do plan to lay out the strips prior to putting in place. I have specifically cut some strips of contrasting mahogany and white aspen. I plan to use cedar from the shear line down about 3" and then two strips of white aspen and then a darker strip of mahogany and then two more strips of white aspen and finally switch back to cedar for the remainder of the stripping. That should give me a nice contrasting design that will show up just below the gunnels.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Bill - in answer to your questions.

Yes, it would have been better to do the scarfing prior to putting the bead and cove into the strip but I don't have a 32'+ space to work in. If it was summer I would have been able to do something like that outside but with our weather here in Wisconsin it would have been impossible this time of year. My original plan for building the canoe was to finish up all of the stripping and sanding prior to spring/summer. At that time it would be warm enough for me to begin the fiberglass/resin step on the exterior of the hull. That is still my goal and I estimate that once I begin the stripping process it will be only 2 to 3 weeks to finish. Then sanding and then waiting for spring and warmer weather. My plan once I finish the stripping and sanding is to work on canning my own seat. 

As to making the scarf cut along the width verses the length, I never thought about that and I never read or saw anyone else doing that. That might be possible if the scarfing was done before the bead and cove were done.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I made some 'T' racks to hold my strips for easy access during the stripping process. Simple design that I screwed to the stations. Once I get strips in place prior to making the turn where I begin stripping the bottom I will remove the 'T' racks. I tested being able to remove the screws holding the racks to the stations to make sure I could access all of the screws from the very top.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Gluing problem.

I ran into a gluing issue using the epoxy to glue strips together. I mixed everything properly with the correct 2:1 ratio. Applied it to the ends of two scarfed strips, clamped, and let dry. Once dry I took the clamps off and the joint just came apart. I started to investigate after the second time this happened. I thought that maybe I mixed the resin and hardener incorrectly but that wasn't the issue. I believe that in making my scarf joints I was using my sander and it appears that the surface of the sanded strips were very smooth. So I think that maybe the surfaces were too smooth and did not allow the epoxy to penetrate into the pores of the strips.

Does this sound like that could be the issue? Have too smooth of surface that I am attempting to glue together? 

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Hi Russell:
To say that I am surprised to hear this is an understatement of biblical proportions. I have never heard of such a thing before.

Here's a few things that I have thought of for you to check.

Is it possible that you have the mixing ratio reversed? Probably not, but if the epoxy did not set up hard within a few hours at most maybe that's it. I really doubt that, but just in case...

Next, when you sanded the strips smooth, did you blow the fine sawdust out of the ends of the strips with compressed air. It could be that the fines have filled up the cedar pores and have prevented adhesion. This, to me, is probably the most likely culprit.

Personally, I never used a sander to do my ends...on the very few that I needed to scarph together, I cut the joints with a saw. I can see where a sander may cause this to happen. So that's something to check.

Did you use just the clear epoxy, or did you use a silica thickener as well? With ANY gluing that I did with cedar strips, regardless of whether or not it was for a joint of any kind, or when adding strips to the canoe, I ALWAYS used a silica thickener (cab-o-sil in my case) with the epoxy.

Is there any chance that the joints got jiggled (technical term there) between the time you glued them and the time you checked them? If an epoxy joint is loosened in any way before it sets, it won't necessarily re-set itself as a PVA glue often will. 

Can I get you to check the actual scarph ratio with a steel rule or something like that? It's hard to tell from the last pic, but it still looks like your ratio is a bit low. Measure the length of the actual scarph. It needs to be a minimum of 1 1/2", with up to 2" being even better.

The alternate way of making a scarph is to lay the wood on the flat, and cut a 1:6 ratio scarph in the face of the wood. With a 3/4" wide strip (typical) this makes the scarph joint 4 1/2" long. At a 1:8 ratio the scarph will be 6" long. That's not as bad as it may sound. Think of this...the longer the scarph joint (when cut on the flat) the more it actually disappears to the eye. 

The actual gluing area is no different from one to the other, but the longer glue line makes for a smoother bend in the strip. You do need to be super fussy about trying to keep the colours very close where your joints are, which minimizes the appearance of the joint.

Something you might consider is this. If you wish to retain the vertical joints, make yourself up a jig to re-cut the joints to a 1:8 ratio using a Japanese saw, or your miter saw. Make the cut by pulling away from the wood with the saw teeth, not pulling into the wood. I hope I'm explaining that properly. And still blow the sawdust out of the joint in any case.

If you have some cut pieces which are not glued yet, try blowing the ends clean and see if you notice a visible difference. I have a hunch that you might.

Don't clamp the joint too tight or you will starve the joint. Epoxy only needs light pressure to do the job effectively.

At this point I'm really wishing that I was right there with you, we'd have this gluing problem solved in 5 minutes.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

One of my uncles, the one mentioned in my signature who is a much better woodworker than I will ever be, got offered a job once to cut wooden parts for a home made airplane out of spruce lumber. The main stipulation was that the parts had to be sawed and could not be sanded. Sanding closes the pores in the wood (and probably fills them with wood flour) and wouldn't allow for maximum holding power from glue. So yes, the sanding could be causing the joint failure. When I tried making arch rafters I was using 3/4" by 1 1/2" lumber and the slope was so long a hand saw wouldn't work so I made a jig to hold the boards vertically so that I could use a circular saw. Nothing fancy, it just held the board and had a guide that steered the saw across it at the appropriate angle.


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## arby157 (Oct 26, 2013)

I have used a fair bit of expoxy, Hi-Tech 9000 (here in NZ) and my first thoughts are perhaps the scarf joints were over clamped and glue starved . Only light clamping is nessary with a couple of temporary brads to keep things in position 
Good luck with your project.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Gluing problem solved:

Well I think I figured out my issue with gluing. There were two factors that I believe accounted for my problem. The first was the sanding of the scarf joints. I easily solved this by putting on a 40 grit disk on the sander. It appears that I had a 120 grit disk on and that all of the pours in the disk were filled so that the disk itself was shiny and smooth. I believe that I ended up just burnishing the scarfs so that the surface was so smooth that the glue could not penetrate into the wood fibers. The second was the clamping of the glued pieces. I over clamped everything so that most of the glue was squeezed out between the two strips. 

After putting the new 40 grit disk on the sander, I re-sanded the scarfs. The 40 grit disk left a nice rough surface for gluing. I then changed my clamping to some smaller clamps that did not squeeze all the glue out. I have now successfully been able to glue about 20+ strips together without a problem.

Today I am finishing up all of the gluing of strips and moving the strips back out to the shop in preparation of beginning the stripping process. 

Tomorrow I plan to lay out the strips and decide on the pattern I will be using and have all of the strips laid out and organized.

I then plan to begin stripping on Thursday morning as the ambient temperature is supposed to be in the 30’s which means that I can more easily heat my shop up to about 70 degrees F. 

Although I have only about 40 glued 16’ strips (Actually require around 65), I plan to do the rest of any scarf joints while doing the stripping. And as I get towards the bottom of the canoe I have to decide how to approach the stripping of the bottom. I know that there are a number of different approaches which include stripping everything to the centerline of the boat or doing an insert, or a patchwork type approach. 

Thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Certainly happy to hear that your strips are staying together. That must be a big relief.

Did you mix any silica thickener with your epoxy?

I wouldn't worry too much yet about how you will approach the bottom until you have made sure that the strips from the sheerline are nice and fair.

Since you didn't have a full length batten before, I would suggest that you use some of your straightest strips as test battens and check that your stations are as close to perfect as possible. The time spent doing this now, before you do the actual stripping, will pay big dividends down the road.

Fairing is a process which takes time, it's not something that you can rush through. I think you will be well advised to take the tape off your stations and check once again to see how the stations line up.

If I remember, I think you said that you only had the 8' strips to use for fairing. Now that you have 16' strips, I hope that you can find the time to check with the longer strips. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised at how much easier the process becomes with full length battens.

Good luck on your next step!


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I read years ago that the number one cause of joint failure is over clamping. When I first started buying Franklin's melamine glue it actually said right on the bottle that clamping wasn't recommended that brad or pin nails was enough pressure to hold the joint together until the glue dried.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I moved all of the glued strips from the house to the shop. Placed them on the supports that I previously built. Then since I was in the shop I decided to put the first strips on the shear line. I took my time and then viewed the line from both ends of the canoe as well as both sides of the canoe. I had to adjust a few positions (station number 6 seemed to be the issue). Once adjusted I was very happy with the smooth and appealing line at the shear. I was very pleased feeling confident that the shear line is fair and will be a good foundation to all of the other strips that will be added. 

I also measured the distance from the centerline to the shear line on each side to determine that the distances were identical. 

Tomorrow I will continue with the striping.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Congratulations!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Here's where it starts to get interesting!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Very good Russell.. a little set back, a little ed-jur-cation and your back on track. Did you staple that first row to the stations? Now, as you move down the sides, will the scarf joints be staggered? 14' canoe, 16' planks, should give you close to a 4' window to work with. I've always thought it pretty wild how there is so little wiggle room if any
during any phase of these builds. At this point, I'd tell the Mrs. if she hears "OPS".. just pack up the kids and head on over to mom's for a coupe days.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Very good Russell.. a little set back, a little ed-jur-cation and your back on track. Did you staple that first row to the stations? Now, as you move down the sides, will the scarf joints be staggered? 14' canoe, 16' planks, should give you close to a 4' window to work with. I've always thought it pretty wild how there is so little wiggle room if any
> during any phase of these builds. At this point, I'd tell the Mrs. if she hears "OPS".. just pack up the kids and head on over to mom's for a coupe days.


Oops! What do you mean, oops? I know what I do when I say, oops. So, what did you do now? You're not to say, oops, ever!:wink:


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

After all of the cutting, routing, sanding, gluing, and preparation I have begun the striping process. I started out with one strip to define the shear line. I spent time with this to insure that the curve looked good and that each location on the stations were identical on both the port and starboard sides of the boat. After stapling the shear strip in place I then continued to strip the canoe. All of my scarf joints were staggered. At first I alternated from side to side, stapling and then gluing a strip on each stem. I then found that I could put 3 strips on at a time on one side and then put 3 strips on the other side. In total I have 12 strips on each side. After stapling and gluing every 3 strips I would clamp and tape between each of the stations to let the glue dry.

Tomorrow I will spend time forming the angle of the stems as the angle changes as the strips get closer to the bottom of the canoe. After that I will continue to strip.

It is interesting as I put more strips on and the shape of the hull began to curve some I could see and feel the curve as I stapled the strips to the stations. It was very gratifying to begin to see the shape of the hull come to life. 

All in all I am really enjoying this. This is an amazing project. I really appreciate all of the support and constructive comments. Thank you. More to come as I complete more of the striping.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

WOW... thats moving along much quicker than I had expected....


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to make good progress on striping. I first worked on the stems to make the angle correct for the strips. Once that was accomplished I was able to add 6 more strips on each side of the canoe. I found that it is taking a bit more time as I need to follow the curve of the stations (forms). On a few I actually had to add a small finishing nail along with the staple to hold the strip in place against the station.

All in all I am pleased with the progress. Hopefully tomorrow I can add another 6 strips per side.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Good job Russel.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

How bout the good, the bad and the ugly about the stripping process thus far? Any issues with the scarfs? Have the stations proven to be fine? No dips or humps? How bout squeeze out, from the looks of your pictures, that doesn't appear to be much of an issue at all. Which I find surprising...How are you applying the adhesive? Again, I'm quite taken aback by how quickly the stripping process has been going. Thats pretty cool. I guess when you get to the "football" thats when ya start to sweat 

Great build thus far Russel...keep on truckin'!!


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

The good of striping is that it is very rewarding and satisfying to see the results as each strip is put in place. It actually is looking like a canoe. It is interesting to see how the shape of the hull begins to form as you progress.

The bad and the ugly of striping is it is getting more difficult to put the strips on due to the multiple curves that the strip must make as you get closer to the stems. I realize that things are going to go a bit slower as there will be more fitting and adjusting prior to putting a strip in place.

Regarding the scarfs. No issue as of yet. All have held and I am please as to how they turned out.

As to the stations. There seems to be no obvious dips and bumps. The hull seems to be forming nicely. I have found that it is much more difficult to put the strips on as you get closer to the center of the bottom (keel). 

My next post has some updated pictures of what I accomplished today.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to put on 3 additional strips on each side of the canoe. I was planning to do more but I found that these strips were much more difficult to align and get into position due to the multiple curves that the strips had to conform to as you got closer to the bow and stern. I also had to not only use staples but additional small finishing nails to keep the strips nested firmly against the stations (forms). 

I am thinking that I will have to begin doing some pre-forming of the strips to accommodate the multiple curves. Since I only have two more 16’ strips ready that I scarfed together, I am thinking of doing the scarfing on the boat so that I am working with shorter strips, which should make it easier to conform the strips to the shape of the stations. 

The attached pictures begin to show the shape of the hull at the bow and stern (which are identical since the canoe is symmetrical in shape.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Russell...

You mention "preforming of the strips"...??

This caught my eye... something to be concerned about?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Hey Russell...
> 
> You mention "preforming of the strips"...??
> 
> This caught my eye... something to be concerned about?


What I meant by pre-forming the strips was to use steam to assist in encouraging the strip to bend in the opposite direction that it was originally going. I saw this on a video on cedar strip building where they used a small hand steamer (something like a travel steamer that emits a small flow of steam used to take the wrinkles out of a pair of trousers or a shirt). The steam helped in allowing you to make the wood strip bend. This is done prior to gluing and stapling (basically dry fitting). Once you have the strip somewhat compliant to the bend you want it to go, you can then more easily glue and staple in place. 

This is due to the change in the curve of the hull between station #1 and the stem, as well as between station #9 and the other stem.

Regarding what caught your eye that you are questioning if this is something to be concerned about – Could you please clarify what you are seeing as I am not understanding what you are seeing? Thanks.

No work on the canoe today as we had our children and grandchildren over to celebrate our oldest daughter’s birthday. Hope to get back to striping on Monday.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> What I meant by pre-forming the strips was to use steam to assist in encouraging the strip to bend


IIRC you have Kiln dried wood....

When wood is kilned it's taken down to around 8% moisture content - - AND the lignin in the wood is set during the process.....

The lignin is what reacts to steaming. But when it's set by being kilned there's not much you're going to be able to do with it. It will not react to steam any more...

This is why air dried wood is used in steam bending....


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh steam it is  A process I am familiar with and one well suited for what you want to do. At least I think so *L*. I've never had cause to bend cedar but given its characteristics I would think this not a big deal and should bend easily. A dry fit to get things aligned is a good idea, Do you plan on letting it sit long enough for the new bend to set and for the strip to dry? If you are using TBII any moisture left along the mating surfaces may cause the glue to fail. Where you are at in the build, the geometry of the boat becomes more complex and I would suspect requiring more preparation on your behalf. I think that this is where the cove and bead method really shines thru. 

What caught my eye... if you look at the picture that I posted, the arrow is pointing towards an area where there is what "appears" to be a pretty good dip in the stripping followed by what appears to be a rise that does not look to be uniform with he station. Again,, just an observation and not a criticism of your work and it may be nothing more than a piece of tape. Hell, at some point I'm hoping that I do see something that you will indeed find of value..*L* If/when the time comes for mine, you can expect alot of correspondence.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Interesting and informative articles. 

When I was steam bending the stems using white ash I used a very simple setup. I took a 2” PVC piece of pipe, 4’ in length. I capped one end. I then put 4 strips of white ash (0.25” thick x 0.75” width x 3’ length) into the PVC pipe and placed over an electric tea pot. I steamed the wood for about 20 to 25 minutes and then removed the strips and bent and clamped them on the forms. I don’t know if the white ash was kiln or air dried but it bent fairly easily. 

As to the cedar strips, I am not sure is the cedar was kiln or air dried either but I will try using the steaming method suggested by the videos and let everyone know how it works or doesn’t work.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Bill - I realize that it is going to be more time consuming with the next few strips. I did not think about letting the strip dry completely prior to gluing so I am glad you suggested that. I had in the back of my head that the TBII would still work with wood that was a bit moist, but I guess not so I am glad to know that prior to gaining my own experience of finding that out. I now plan to pre-form the strips as I indicated with the use of steam. I will dry fit them and then tack them in place until they dry. 

As to what you are seeing I will have to investigate more tomorrow when I head out to the shop. I understand what you are saying now and I will check it out. I do appreciate a second set of eyes. Since I have never built a cedar strip canoe before, I don't know if everything is 100% correct as I only have a few books, some videos, and other web sites to base my knowledge on. So if you or anyone else sees something that doesn't seem right or correct, please say something. Thanks.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey Russell, 

To Sticks point,,, i just did a quick search on "Steam Bending kiln dried cedar"..and everything says that if the wood has been kiln dried...steaming isn't going to work.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Russel...

IIRC you got your cedar from the big box...
you can bet it's kiln dried...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Yes I bought my cedar from a big box. I am still going to try and let you know how it works or doesn't.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> Russel...
> 
> IIRC you got your cedar from the big box...
> you can bet it's kiln dried...


Hey Stick...not necessarily so.

All the spruce, pine, fir etc gets the KD treatment out this way, but WRC does not go into the kiln, at least to the best of my knowledge and experience from using it for the past 50 years or so.

WRC has a tendency to dry all by itself fairly quickly, and in so doing it also has a tendency to move quite a bit. I'm sure you know all about cedar siding...the difference between damp and dry seasons allows considerable movement between any two given pieces. You see that when a home has the cedar stained after it was applied.

The kilns here take the SPF down to 19% m.c. Anything else comes from mother nature once the wood finds it's final resting place.

As for the WRC, I used to dry mine down to 6% in a simple poly sided kiln and using a ceramic box type heater for the heat source. About 48 hours from green and the strips are done.

I'm not aware that there should be any trouble bending the strips. Perhaps there is a difference between flat cut and edge grained strips. I always did my best to use edge grain, as it both looks better and was never any trouble putting a twist in it when you got to the awkward part of the hull.

Hope I'm not contributing too much to the confusion here?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> Yes I bought my cedar from a big box. I am still going to try and let you know how it works or doesn't.


It should be OK...but see my previous post. Make sure the wood is DRY before you glue it.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> It should be OK...but see my previous post. Make sure the wood is DRY before you glue it.


looked into it...

rough sawn 2x dimensional material and fence pickets are green...
1x dressed material is kiln dried....


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> looked into it...
> 
> rough sawn 2x dimensional material and fence pickets are green...
> 1x dressed material is kiln dried....


OK, no argument from me in that case.

Years ago number 1 son and I had a deal with the Western Red Cedar Association wherein they would supply us with a load of FREE WRC from which we would build a custom deck at the B. C. Place Home Show.

This was really choice wood with nary a knot to be seen. Essentially this was what is called architectural grade. Even this wood was not kiln dried.

I don't know if you get red cedar from the west coast back east, or if it is a locally grown variety. I wouldn't mind finding out about that.

Most of the red cedar these days is second growth and therefore it really does not resemble the old growth wood at all. 

The older wood is almost always darker, tighter grained, clear and straighter. The younger wood is more a yellowish colour, much looser grain, not nearly as straight and is frequently full of knots.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm in Colorado...
we can still get old growth...
cedar timber is is green...

it may all have to do with locality...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I'm in Colorado...
> we can still get old growth...
> cedar timber is is green...
> 
> it may all have to do with locality...


It may well indeed have to do with locality.

Even here in B.C. the cedars grow very differently out on the west coast as compared to inland. Occasionally you may still see the pipe of an old growth red cedar filling up the entire bed of a logging truck. It's quite a sight.

Since moving up to the North Shuswap, about the biggest cedar I've seen has been less than three feet thick.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Success was had with using steam to pre-form the strips. Don’t know if the cedar that I have is kiln dried or air dried but I was able to use steam to twist the strips to make it easier to make the bends required as the strips got closer to the stems of the canoe.

I used a very simple method. Using my electric tea pot I first marked the strip where I wanted to make the bend and held that area over the steam coming out of the tea pot spout. I held the strip in the steam flow for about 1 minute per side. While keeping the strip in the steam flow, I carefully twisted the strip to create the desired bend. The first picture shows the twist that I was able to set into the strip. 

I let the strip dry for a bit (it wasn’t really that wet) and then glued and stapled it in place. This sure made it a lot easier to install the strip the next two rolls of strips. It was time consuming but the end result was worth it. 

Tomorrow I plan to do two more rolls, which will put me past the centerline of the canoe. At that point I will be able to think about how I want to approach the stripping of the bottom of the boat.

Additional pictures show overall progress as well as gap in bottom that remains to be stripped.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

glad to hear my fears and warnings were wrong...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> It may well indeed have to do with locality.
> 
> Even here in B.C. the cedars grow very differently out on the west coast as compared to inland. Occasionally you may still see the pipe of an old growth red cedar filling up the entire bed of a logging truck. It's quite a sight.
> 
> Since moving up to the North Shuswap, about the biggest cedar I've seen has been less than three feet thick.


I felled one on the upper Shuswap north of Sugar Lake that was just about 8 feet across Keith. There were some pretty good sized ones along the river flat.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I felled one on the upper Shuswap north of Sugar Lake that was just about 8 feet across Keith. There were some pretty good sized ones along the river flat.


Eight feet! FANTASTIC!!! 

It takes a nice moist area for the cedars to get that big. 

I remember when I lived up in the Yukon the only trees of any size at all were along the Tahini River outside of Whitehorse.

The local trees anything up to 100 years old were hardly over 7" thick. But the wood was hard as rock.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Shuswap Lake,I stayed there for two weeks on vacation back in 1984 Charles.Beautiful postcard scenery I'll never forget.Didn't catch any fish but had fun trying.James


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

jj777746 said:


> Shuswap Lake,I stayed there for two weeks on vacation back in 1984 Charles.Beautiful postcard scenery I'll never forget.Didn't catch any fish but had fun trying.James


Didn't catch any fish??? Say what?

Did you try the CIL lures? They work every time. >


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Didn't catch any fish??? Say what?
> 
> Did you try the CIL lures? They work every time. >


or lures by DuPont...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> or lures by DuPont...


Oh...so DuPont makes dynamite as well do they?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Oh...so DuPont makes dynamite as well do they?


DIIK...

try a flash/bang....
less damage to the fish...

plan ''B''...


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

We better quit hijacking Russell's thread.

I wanna see how he made out with his canoe today! :smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> We better quit hijacking Russell's thread.
> 
> I wanna see how he made out with his canoe today! :smile:


okay...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Progress on the canoe was minimum yesterday. I was able to glue and staple and clamp only 2 strips on each side. It is taking longer due to working around the stems and making sure that the strips are positioned properly to allow for the outer stem to fit properly. I have been taking my time and providing more glue drying time between strips. 

Today I will put on another 2 strips and then be at the stage of just working on the bottom of the canoe.

Hopefully tonight I will have made the progress I want and will have some pictures to document.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Well good on ya Russell !!!  I have spent alot of time last couple of evenings looking into this bending KD cedar. I gotta tell ya, I didn't run across one site (and I betcha I looked at 2 dozen) that recommended attempting to steam bend kiln dried cedar, white or red. Fact is, pretty much 100% were strongly against it. Mostly due to the reasons that Stick had state. So you have either set prescient or your wood was air dried or something inbetween. Regardless, if you got it to do what you wanted it to do,,,thats all that matters!! I believe nefarious forces are at play here, requiring further investigation  
so the questions are.....
Did you bend your wood on a curve off of a straight line, or did you just have to "twist" the wood or a combination of the two?
When you took the steamed piece off after fitting, was there alot of spring back or did it pretty much maintain its new shape?
Since the front and back are to be enclosed, do you support the cavities in anyway? ie something similar to the shape of the stations inserted into the cavity for support?
Do you have plans to use the cavities for storage/flotation or a combination of the two?

Did you ever consider using white cedar when you were planning this build?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Regarding the steam bending. On the video that I received with the plans it actually shows the use of a small hand held steamer. I didn't have one so I just set up my electric tea pot and used the steam from that. As far as the strip holding the bent/twisted condition, it did not spring back very much at all. I only twisted the strips enough to assist in making the curve near the stems. Let them dry for a bit. Once I glued that end in place the rest of the strip followed the previous strip easily.

I haven't thought about the bow or stern cavities as of yet. Don't have to worry about those until I turn the boat over. I am thinking that some nice storage space would be nice. 

Never considered using white cedar as it was not readily available locally. I am pretty pleased with the cedar boards that I was able to find (with a lot of sorting) at both Home Depot and Menards (for those not from the Wisconsin area, Menards is a home improvement center very similar to Home Depot).


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

jj777746 said:


> Shuswap Lake,I stayed there for two weeks on vacation back in 1984 Charles.Beautiful postcard scenery I'll never forget.Didn't catch any fish but had fun trying.James


Keith (cocobolo) is on the Main Lake arm of the Shuswap (the other arms are Salmon, Seymour, and Anstey) and probably close to rock throwing distance away from the water. I'm a couple of hours and a bit from the Main Lake. I'm about 2 km from the Shuswap River which is the main feeder to the lake. The sources are to the north of me, maybe 60km by air. The main feeders for the river are the Blanket and Cranberry Glaciers. There are almost endless picture postcard moments around here which is why I didn't leave after I got in in '74.

Too bad you didn't catch a fish, there are some big ones in the lake but probably down deep. I wouldn't recommend lures made by CIL, DuPont, or Ma Bell (hand crank phone i.e.) The game wardens here would take a dim view.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Keith (cocobolo) is on the Main Lake arm of the Shuswap (the other arms are Salmon, Seymour, and Anstey) and probably close to rock throwing distance away from the water. I'm a couple of hours and a bit from the Main Lake. I'm about 2 km from the Shuswap River which is the main feeder to the lake. The sources are to the north of me, maybe 60km by air. The main feeders for the river are the Blanket and Cranberry Glaciers. There are almost endless picture postcard moments around here which is why I didn't leave after I got in in '74.
> 
> Too bad you didn't catch a fish, there are some big ones in the lake but probably down deep. I wouldn't recommend lures made by CIL, DuPont, or Ma Bell (hand crank phone i.e.) The game wardens here would take a dim view.


I heard that you were supposed to practice with your CIL lures on the game wardens. Hand one to them in a box and run like hell! >


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today’s progress included cutting out the notch for the outer stem, striping the last strips prior to striping the bottom. I feel pretty good about the stems and my next step will be striping the bottom.

I was also able to remove all of the staples at each stem and using a sureform rasp (handy tools) I was able to bring the end of the strips in line with the inner stem. 

The tricky part of putting the last strips on was to have them mesh together at the stem. One end of the canoe gave me some problems so I had to be creative with how to clamp the strips down until the glue dried. The other end went pretty much according to plan and did not require any additional clamping.

I will let everything dry overnight and then decide how to complete the bottom.

Oh – by the way, I don’t mind at all about the fishing discussion. I am not much of a fisherman as I only do it with our grandchildren. But if I was, I think I like the idea of explosives….. 


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> As far as the strip holding the bent/twisted condition, it did not spring back very much at all. I only twisted the strips enough to assist in making the curve near the stems. Let them dry for a bit. Once I glued that end in place the rest of the strip followed the previous strip easily.


Russell, if you are only holding the strip in place for a minute or so, what you are doing is more like heat bending. It takes the steam quite awhile to actually penetrate the cedar in order to make it pliable.

You might find that a heat gun will work better for you in this case, as it makes a lot more heat much faster. An experiment on some spare pieces will tell the tale.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> Oh – by the way, I don’t mind at all about the fishing discussion. I am not much of a fisherman as I only do it with our grandchildren. But if I was, I think I like the idea of explosives….. 


or bring a dog that will really show ya up...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Russell, if you are only holding the strip in place for a minute or so, what you are doing is more like heat bending. It takes the steam quite awhile to actually penetrate the cedar in order to make it pliable.
> 
> You might find that a heat gun will work better for you in this case, as it makes a lot more heat much faster. An experiment on some spare pieces will tell the tale.


I have a heat gun and will try that. You are most likely correct in that I am using the heat of the steam more so then the steam itself.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

You are most likely correct in that I am using the heat from the steam more than actually using the steam.

I have a heat gun and will try it on some strips tomorrow. Thanks.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today’s progress consisted of making the decision of how I wanted to strip the bottom of the canoe. 

There are three different methods that I read about and viewed on videos. One method is to strip one side until the strips cross over the centerline of the bottom and then cut a straight line down the center and then strip the other side to meet up with the centerline. The second method is to make a football shaped insert that becomes your bottom and you strip up to that. Or the third method is to continue striping and alternating strips from side to side and create a patchwork appearance. I choose the last method as I think it looks the neatest. Of course this is purely an individual decision.

So with that in mind I began laying down alternate strips from side to side. Fitting the end of one strip into the “V” formed by the strips from each side of the canoe. See picture. This involved dry fitting each strip prior to gluing and ends up being a bit more time consuming but I really like how it looks. 

As each roll of strips was drying before putting the next roll of strips on, I spent time pulling staples from the forms. I figure I would eventually have to pull all the staples out so I used my wait time to begin the process.

The last picture shows the remaining area that I have to strip.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Good choice there Russell. I think that's what we used to call herringbone when we did the teak decks on some of the big monohulls.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Technically I think this is one of the more difficult aspects of a build. To me, what you've accomplished looks pretty good. Are you putting a 'bead' on the ends of each plank or are you creating a flat on the established (already installed) plank and butting up the new one against it. As you've progressed thru the build, has the cedar had a tendency to rock side to side on the stations?

Keith... obviously the planks are much shorter at this point and do have much more of a curve to em... would a steam box be of value at this point in the build?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I first cut the strip with the correct angle and then using a sanding block I put a bead on the edge that will be mating with the other strip so that I have a firm and solid fit. I then put a good amount of glue on both edges and fit.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell, what are the lengths of the planks you're fitting up now?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

*Choosing a Hull design*

Here are a couple good video's on hull design.... pro's and con's


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Keith... obviously the planks are much shorter at this point and do have much more of a curve to em... would a steam box be of value at this point in the build?


I am not sure about that.

When I used to do this my strips were probably a little narrower than Russell's. I think they usually ended up at about 5/8" wide only. Perhaps it was because of this that I never found the need to steam the strips.

One thing I did used to do when I got to the football, was to sit the strips in a curved jig overnight, or longer, much so that the jig basically duplicated the anticipated curve on the bottom of the hull.

The jig was simplicity itself. Just three short pieces of cedarstrip tacked onto a wide board such that when you put your strip(s) in the jig, the strips were slightly over bent.

While the cedar would spring back to a degree, some of the curve would remain for long enough to assist with the installation.

So, in answer to your question, while steam may be of benefit, I think I would rather use my jig setup along with hot air. I have a hunch that something like that would help the strips to take a set once they cooled down. It's certainly something that I would try with a wider strip.

So, make up the jig, put the strip(s) in place, then use the heat gun. By the next morning the strips will long have cooled and should hold much of the curve.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Something else that just popped into my addled old brain...there will be a difference between flat grain and edge grain when it comes to bending.

It seems to me that the edge grain strips would bend more easily than the flat grain. So when one gets to the football, I think it would be easier with the installation if there were sufficient edge grain boards to do that part in its' entirety.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Over the last two days I have made good progress at striping. I have found that I can only put 2 strips on per day per side due to giving everything enough drying time. I raise the temperature of my shop to about 70 degrees and then when I am finished gluing I let the temperature return to whatever the ambient temperature is until the next day. 

Yesterday I put 2 strips on per side and today I was able to put another 2 strips on per side. I calculate that I have another 7 or 8 strips to finish up the bottom.

As you can see from the pictures the hole in the bottom is getting smaller.

Currently, I have most of the staples pulled at this point.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Love your work Russell. Congratulations on a great WIP.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I wonder if it would help if you were to use reverse clamps to keep your football strips pressed snugly together?

She's starting to look very suspiciously like a canoe now! :smile:


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I've got to wonder "why" one could not build from the bottom, up??? I suspect it has more to do with aesthetics and strip alignment at the gunwale line more than anything else. Anchoring the build to the stations as the build progress 'might' be another? Balance from one side to the other perhaps yet another reason? 

one of the more interesting aspects of these builds IMHO is the method for securing the strips in place. Staples vs. multiple clamps used in conjunction with tape/wedges/various other mean's of securing the strips in place. I KNOW I'd be overthinking this portion of the build, especially round the football. I do think that steaming the strips would be fine, however after giving it some thought, it is not necessary if not over kill. Given the nature of cedar and its inherent flexibility I don't see a need to steam the planks. Of course if I were doing production runs and had a 20' steam box sitting around, I'd be sure to give it a try *L*

Russell, Looking closely at the 2nd picture in the latest series of pictures.. there are what appear to be 'gaps' between several planks. Whats the plan for these? Filler, splices or just leave em alone and let the epoxy act as a filler? I"m going to be real interested in how the hull looks where you pulled the staples. Any issues or concerns there? 
That garage of yours has got to be smelling pretty darn good at this point


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I've got to wonder "why" one could not build from the bottom, up??? I suspect it has more to do with aesthetics and strip alignment at the gunwale line more than anything else. Anchoring the build to the stations as the build progress 'might' be another? Balance from one side to the other perhaps yet another reason?


Bill, I think this is a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I suppose that technically you could strip the boat from the bottom up, but just think of how difficult that would be.

If you started with the football, once you got to the curve you would need to turn the boat sideways in order to prevent the glue from dripping off the strips. Not to mention how you would know just how and where to start the strips.

Out of interest, I have just bought about every book I can find on strip building...still have one to arrive from the U.K.

Eventually I will find my old books, still packed away, and then I will see if there have been any substantial improvements or alterations from 30 years ago. So far the biggest complaint I see from all the authors is that the long strips are becoming hard to find.

I'm not sure that I agree with that, as there are a number of specialty places which still are able to provide long strips. It strikes me that the main reason is that the cost of single length strips is increasing thus pushing the cost of these fine craft ever upwards.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Regarding clamping. 

The method I used was to tape a scrap piece of one of the strips to the edge of the newly glued and stapled strip in order to hold it in place. This protected the edge of the strip so that the cove was not damaged. You can see that I did this between each station (form). This worked quite well and helped to make each glue joint as tight as possible.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I've got to wonder "why" one could not build from the bottom, up??? I suspect it has more to do with aesthetics and strip alignment at the gunwale line more than anything else. Anchoring the build to the stations as the build progress 'might' be another? Balance from one side to the other perhaps yet another reason?
> 
> one of the more interesting aspects of these builds IMHO is the method for securing the strips in place. Staples vs. multiple clamps used in conjunction with tape/wedges/various other mean's of securing the strips in place. I KNOW I'd be overthinking this portion of the build, especially round the football. I do think that steaming the strips would be fine, however after giving it some thought, it is not necessary if not over kill. Given the nature of cedar and its inherent flexibility I don't see a need to steam the planks. Of course if I were doing production runs and had a 20' steam box sitting around, I'd be sure to give it a try *L*
> 
> ...


Bill - I am sure there are some gaps between some of the strips. However there is glue between each of them and sometimes the strips fit tighter then other times. Some of it might be related to accommodating for the curve of the hull, but some are most likely spaces that I am not sure how they will be filled. Wood flower or epoxy? I will keep moving forward and document as I go. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

In hind sight I would most likely spend more time and attention to when I did the routing on all of the strips. Making sure that the bead and cove were exact. I thought that I was getting all of them consistent but perhaps not. Now you can purchase all of the strips finished and ready to go but I wanted to do all of the wood working myself as well as saving some $$.

As I begin sanding the hull I would also imagine that some of the gaps will become un-noticeable once the hull is faired.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Finished striping the hull.

Today I worked on the striping of the bottom. With the unusual warm weather we have had it was easy to heat my shop and I was able to complete all of the striping on the bottom. Allowing sufficient time between each strip for proper drying. 

I do have to say that it was quite tricky as I got down to the last one and two remaining strips. I had to improvise and do butt joints on the strips due to the shortness of the strips. When the strips were longer I was able to use one continuous strip, but as the strips got shorter, it was impossible to do that.

All in all I am pleased with the outcome. I realize it is not perfect but so far I have learned quite a few things. Thanks for all the encouraging comments and suggestions so far.

Now to spend time studying the DVD and the manual on the next step.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Russel, you'll have to take her outta the water and carry her around a lot... so people can see the nice work in the bottom.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

morgantheship said:


> Bill - I am sure there are some gaps between some of the strips. However there is glue between each of them and sometimes the strips fit tighter then other times. Some of it might be related to accommodating for the curve of the hull, but some are most likely spaces that I am not sure how they will be filled. Wood flower or epoxy? I will keep moving forward and document as I go. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
> 
> In hind sight I would most likely spend more time and attention to when I did the routing on all of the strips. Making sure that the bead and cove were exact. I thought that I was getting all of them consistent but perhaps not. Now you can purchase all of the strips finished and ready to go but I wanted to do all of the wood working myself as well as saving some $$.
> 
> As I begin sanding the hull I would also imagine that some of the gaps will become un-noticeable once the hull is faired.


Not to shabby Russell.. not to shabby at all...You have got to be pleased to this point. That football turned out looking pretty good. I'm glad you see the issue with some of the gaps between the strips. No doubt, someone with several builds under their belt wouldn't have these kinda issues. But for a first go round, you're doing a fine job! AND you sound as if you are learning as you go. Valuable lessons no doubt! From the looks of things, it appears that some of the issues are just spots where the fragile edge of the cedar may have broken away. 
There has got to be a product specifically designed for this application. I don't now that your over the counter filler would flex enough so as to not crack. As much mechanical as aesthetic. Epoxy I believe would work but I am not sure how it would look. You may end up with dark lines between the strips. Wide enough so as to not blend in...but, BUT I could be all wet about one or both. This is something I'd go to an experienced builder about. 
I've have looked into factory bead and cove strips and the pricing is just NUTS!!! and thats just for 8 footers... the longer you go the price goes thru the roof. Doing your own is absolutely the way to go. At least in my opinion for what thats worth *L*. A variation of a couple 64ths may not show up at all on the sides of the boat and yet, stick out like a sore thumb on the curves. It could be 1 thing, or a combination of a few..and even at that the specific location on the build I"m sure contributes to exaggerating a blemish. 
Fairing of the canoe should be alot of fun.  Be sure to wear at the very least a mask. Some folks have serious reactions to cedar. Some it don't bother...the good news is that cedar sands down pretty easily. You shouldn't have to worry about moths in the shop for quite a while 

I"m thoroughly enjoying the build and appreciate your taking the time to document it as you go. You impress me as an avid paddler, so this build has got to be a special one for you. I'd bet ya a cup of coffee that you've already pictured yourself out on the water in this canoe already ....and the wife's a paddler as well...hmmmmmmmmm yeah, this ain't the first one your gonna build...


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Fantastic, never thought the bottom of any vessel that floats in water would be a work of art.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

old coasty said:


> Fantastic, never thought the bottom of any vessel that floats in water would be a work of art.


they are beautiful! the boat itself can be a work of art...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

After a few days away from the shop I finally decided it was time to take the next step in fairing the hull. Using a Surform, I went over the entire hull taking off a minimal amount of wood shavings in the attempt to round out the flats of each of the strips. The glue high spots also got taken off during this procedure. 
Never having done anything like this before, I had been putting it off as I had this fear that I would remove too much material and ruin all the work that had gone into getting to this point. But after watching a few videos and doing some additional reading I slowly went at the process of fairing. After moving up and down and along the hull I realized that my fears were unfounded. I did find that it was a good workout and I sure didn’t need to wear a heavy sweatshirt on during the process. 
I completed going over the entire hull from stem to stern and then went over the hull again with less pressure. I could feel the difference in the shape of the hull as I went along as it became rounded instead of having ridges.
The one concern that I do have is the spaces between some of the strips that will require some filling prior to final sanding.
My next step will be to use the rotary palm sander with a 60 or 80 grit disk.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

When you say rotary palm sander, is this a random orbital sander?

Before you try that, can I suggest that you use a longboard with 80 grit.

All you need is a piece of decent quality 1/4" plywood, perhaps 2 1/2" to 3" wide and 2 feet long. Add some sort of handle to either end, and stick a strip of sandpaper with spray glue on the bottom.

The longer distance that the sander is spread over, as opposed to a small disc, will give you a much more fair hull. It is too easy for the small sanders to dig holes. This isn't a process that you have to hurry through at all. Take all the time you need.

To fill the holes, use epoxy with either a silica thickener or wood flour. The wood flour will leave a darker line, the silica will not. Push the filler in from both sides.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I have been taking a little break on working on the canoe. I have had one of my grandsons up for the last few days and for some reason he does not find working on grandpa’s canoe to be what he calls fun. He is only eight so we opted for other adventures, like shooting guns and building Lego's. 

Yes, it is a random orbital sander that I am using.

As suggested I built myself a longboard sanding stick. 2 ½” wide by 24” long. I attached two handles and it works perfect. I thought that I had a bunch of 80 grit sand paper but found that I only had 60 grit and 100 grit. I didn’t want to use the 60 grit as it being somewhat too aggressive so I started with 100 grit. Tomorrow I will pick up some 80 grit.

As for filler, I will be using the wood flour and epoxy mix. 

I plan on taking my time filling and sanding. I am not in a hurry and I realize that the time I invest now will reflect in the finished product.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I decided to begin striping the pieces that will be used for the fore and aft decks. I realize that I will not need these for some time but since I have all these strips sitting I thought I would get a head start on this step.

Basically the fore and aft decks will be identical as well as individual in design. Once the canoe is flipped over and I am at that step I will size them and cut them appropriately.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Good job there Russell. You will come to like that longboard a lot the more you use it.

You're right about 60 grit being too coarse, especially on a softwood like cedar. I always started with 80 grit and went up from there.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Coming right along Russell.... very cool! When you start to go about using the filler,,, please go into detail... I'm very interested in the process and results.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

The more I look at the fore and aft deck feature the more I like it.....lots of possibilities...


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## bwilling (Jul 14, 2015)

This is the best thread on the web hands down great job:wink:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Russell, will you be buying or making your seat. I don't recall you specifying. I assume, that, you will be getting to the fiber glassing soon. Take lots of photos, please.

The canoe looks fantastic so far. Great job.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

schnewj said:


> Russell, will you be buying or making your seat. I don't recall you specifying. I assume, that, you will be getting to the fiber glassing soon. Take lots of photos, please.
> 
> The canoe looks fantastic so far. Great job.


Bill -

Regarding a seat. I plan to make my own seat based upon a simple backrest design and a caned seat. I am attaching a picture of what I have in mind but please note that this is not exactly what I have in mind. 

I want to make the seat and backrest so that it complements the rest of the canoe in both shape and color. The backrest is designed to be inserted when needed into blocks that are epoxied to the sides of the hull directly below the gunnels. 

As I get to that part of the project I will take pictures and share the end design that I come up with.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I began the sanding process. I used an 80 grit sandpaper on the sanding stick as well as an 80 grit sandpaper on the random orbital sander. I alternated between the two giving my arms a rest from the repetitive movements. I was tempted to use a 60 grit paper as that would have sped up the sanding process but I wanted to be careful not to take off to much wood at any one time. I decided that I would rather spend additional time using the 80 grit paper then risk taking too deep of cut out of the strips.

As I sanded I realized a couple of things. The first was that all cedar is not equal in hardness. I found that certain strips were easier to sand while others almost seemed like a hardwood. Possibly edge grain verses end grain. I also found that the accent strips that I placed a few strips down from the sheer line sanded completely differently than the cedar. The accent strips that I used consisted of two strips of Aspen with a strip of Mahogany between them. The Mahogany was much harder than the Aspen. Next time I would try to use woods that had about the same hardness to them as it would have simplified sanding.

I also found that as I sanded, I found low spots which required more intensive sanding to make them conform to a smooth transition. Tomorrow I will take the time to inspect each strip as I sand to insure that the joints are as smooth as possible and that there are no ridges between the strips. It is a nice feeling to run one’s hand down the side of the hull and feel a smooth surface.

I also know that I will be doing some filling of spaces between strips. That will come after I finish the sanding which will include a 150 grit and 220 grit paper. 

All in all I am enjoying and pleased with what the hull is beginning to look like.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Russell, glad to see that you stayed with 80 instead of going down to 60 grit. Even on very large boats (40+ foot multihulls for example) we never used anything coarser than 80.

You're right about the edge grain and flat grain sanding very differently. Now that is where the longboard comes in to play. Because it spans a good distance, there is no chance of it digging in where it isn't wanted.

Looks like you are going to end up with a fine boat.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Looks fantastic Russell.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today’s progress included additional sanding, fairing the hull near the stems to meet with the outer stems, preparing the outer stems and filling some of the spaces between strips on the hull.

I spent about an hour re-sanding the hull with both the sanding board and the random orbital sander, again using 80 grit paper and disks. I can really begin to feel the nice even transition after each sanding.

Next I temporarily clamped the outer stems in place to cut to length and also to mark the inner stems and strips so that I could fair the ends down to meet with the outer stems. I clamped the outer stem in place and carefully marked with a pencil on each side of it, which gave me how much material I had to remove from the strips at the bow and stern. I then used the Sureform tool to remove the majority of material and then used both the sanding board and the random orbital sander.

Once that was complete I then mixed a thick batch of resin epoxy and wood flour and used this to seal each stem end. Once dry I will sand smooth and dry fit the outer stems prior to placing a layer of epoxy and wood flour in-between the inner stems and the outer stems. I will be using #6 – ¾” counter sunk brass wood screws to secure the outer stem to the inner stem.

Since I had some epoxy and wood flour mix left over, I decided to fill some of the spaces on the bottom of the hull. Once dry I will re-sand and see how this worked.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I dry fitted the outer stems. Checked my spacing and then removed them to be able to go on to the next step which will be to put a patch of fiberglass cloth and resin over the bow and stern to provide strength to each end. Once the cloth and resin are dry I will sand and put the outer stems in place with a coating of thick epoxy between to create a good seal. This might have to wait some as I need some warmer weather to be able to keep my shop warm enough for the fiberglass and resin to dry properly.

So after that I did some more sanding with 80 grit paper and discs. I was somewhat concerned about the discoloration of some strips after filling some of the spaces between the strips. I contacted the people at Sandy Point Boat Works and was assured that thickened epoxy only penetrates the wood about 5 mills and it should be fairly simple to sand away. They were correct. 

I have now sanded the hull with 80 grit and 100 grit paper and discs. The sanding board is really helpful in the process. I plan to do one more sanding and then mix up some more epoxy with wood flour and do a final fill on any large spaces, etc. I will then do the final sanding once the epoxy and fill are dry. The last three pictures show what the hull looks like after the 100 grit sanding. You might not be able to see it, but it is sure becoming nice and smooth.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I mixed up some epoxy along with wood flour and filled all the spaces/openings/cracks/nicks/dents, and any place else that seemed to need some filling. I was surprised that after I went around the entire hull and went back to check for anything that I missed that I found even more things to fill. After going around the hull 3 times I felt that I was becoming somewhat excessive with filling places that just seemed to appear out of nowhere. One thing I did was take my time to make sure that I scraped as much of the epoxy/wood flour mix off of the strips so that it would minimize sanding. 

After finishing and cleaning up my tools and taking a good look at what I did, I realized that I have a lot of sanding time ahead of me. But I think that in the long run it will be worth the extra time and effort. Only time will tell. 

I am keeping the temperature in the shop at around 70 degrees and will keep it heated until later this evening. That should be sufficient time for the epoxy to set up and dry.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Well damn now, I finally figured out what that "BUMP" is thats been buggin' the crap out of me *L*....

What are you using as the "wood filler" in your epoxy mix? Just saw dust?.... She's lookin' like she's got potential now Russell... great job. 
This has been most interesting to watch as she progresses. Any issues with sawdust? breathing it in, getting in the house, etc...? Now, 
will you be doing pretty much the same to the inside of the hull? Filler/sanding etc.? Tell me yes  just to shut me up. I tell ya, If I were across
the street, you'd have trouble getting me out of your shop. I'd love to lend a hand with the glassing of the boat. Hell, lend a hand with the whole
process....

btw... another guy came up with a Craigs list ad for the stations for a 16' flat water Gil Gilmore canoe. 35 bucks..looks kinda ify, but I"m gonna give it a look
I've been looking Gilmore, but can't find him anywhere, ever hear of him?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Bill - It is actually Gil Gilpatrick. He as a book called Building a Strip Canoe. It comes with full size patterns.

It is the first book I bought and then I purchased Canoecraft by Ted Moores. Both are good but I think Canoecraft is better.

When I was originally looking for a canoe that I wanted to build I found on Craig’s List someone selling the strongback with stations for a particular canoe. I was almost at the point of buying it but when I really questioned myself, it was not the boat that I wanted to build. I would highly recommend that you find the boat that you want to build and don’t compromise. Sure it might cost you a bit more money but if your heart is not tied to the boat you are building, it will be a drain on working on the boat. That is at least how I feel about it. 

I am so pleased with the choice I made as I really like what I am building. I have the support of the designer for questions (which he has been great on answering my questions and giving me advise) and I have to flexibility of personalizing the boat to what I like. That is very important to me as this is “my” canoe. 

The wood filler I am using is the epoxy along with the wood flour that was provided by the designer. I purchased all of the fiberglass and resin from him. The kit came with wood flour and pumps and rollers, and a few other things. If you look at a previous post you will see the complete kit that I included a picture of.

Regarding your question on sawdust. My shop is out in my 3 car garage. I have one bay that my son and I partitioned off and that is where I have everything. I have a dust collection system that I have used when cutting and routing the strips. With the random orbital sander and the sanding board I am using a shop vac along with a mask. It gets a bit dusty but I open up the garage door after sanding and use my air compressor to blow out the majority of the dust that has collected. It is not 100% ideal but it is close to that and I have not experienced any issues with inhaling too much dust. However, my clothes sure carry the scent of cedar on them. 

And yes, once the fiberglass and epoxy is applied to the outside of the hull, I will be turning the boat over and will have to do the same to the inside of the canoe. So I look as this as good practice. 

If you lived across the street I would certainly welcome you to assist in putting on the fiberglass and epoxy. If for some reason you are in the area of Wisconsin, let me know as I plan to be at that step within the next two weeks.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thanks Russell,,, I'm going to look him up. 
you're spot on about this kinda thing being personnel. I'm more curious about the design of the stations. Seeing them first hand is different than seeing pictures. If/when the time comes...I'll do one from scratch..laying it out thru caning a seat. I saw the kit you picked up and went to the site and checked em out. Seems like a fair price. Do you know why a 6# fiberglass and not ........say a 10#? Is there that much difference in weight or is it more about actually smoothing the fiberglass out during application?

I found a local guy that deals primarily in cedar products.. he has straight grained WRC @ 5bf..up to 20' lengths. Spoke with him on the phone last week,,seems like a real nice guy to deal with. So that a plus  Can't wait for this summer to hit and get my grandson back out on the water and see how it goes.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Thanks Russell,,, I'm going to look him up.
> you're spot on about this kinda thing being personnel. I'm more curious about the design of the stations. Seeing them first hand is different than seeing pictures. If/when the time comes...I'll do one from scratch..laying it out thru caning a seat. I saw the kit you picked up and went to the site and checked em out. Seems like a fair price. Do you know why a 6# fiberglass and not ........say a 10#? Is there that much difference in weight or is it more about actually smoothing the fiberglass out during application?
> 
> I found a local guy that deals primarily in cedar products.. he has straight grained WRC @ 5bf..up to 20' lengths. Spoke with him on the phone last week,,seems like a real nice guy to deal with. So that a plus  Can't wait for this summer to hit and get my grandson back out on the water and see how it goes.


Good choice in doing everything yourself. You will not be disappointed.

As to the #6 cloth. Not sure other than it is sufficient to make the hull strong enough and keeps the weight down. If using a #10 cloth you would also be using more epoxy. I had questioned the designer about doing a double layer on the outside and he steered me away from that idea as it was not necessary. Guess once I get it finished and in the water, that will be the true test.

That sounds great if you can find someone local with lengths up to 20 feet. I wish I had had a better choice other than Home Depot. But the cost was okay. I still have a lot of strips left as I most likely will make another one either of the same design or something different. Possibly my wife will want one.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to sand down the entire hull and rid the surface of all of the epoxy that I applied. It was a real chore. 

I had to fist take a Stanley Utility Knife blade and use it to scrap as much of the epoxy off. I was pretty careful when I was applying the filler (epoxy & wood flour) but there still ended up a very thin layer that would just gum up the sanding disks so I decided to scrape everything down first before sanding.

Once I finished scraping everything down I was able to use an 80 grit paper and disk to remove all of the discoloration that the filler had caused. 

Tomorrow I will continue on with 120 grit paper and disks and then 220 grit paper and disks. The random orbital sander is a God send as well as the sanding board. 

The one good thing is I can see and end to my sanding, at least on the outside of the hull. But I still have the inside of the hull to look forward to. To help me during the process I put on some CD's to listen to.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I just learned the joy of cabinet scrapers. Maybe that would have been easier than a utility knife?

I have a confession..... I wasn't going to read this thread as there is no way I'll ever build a canoe. BUT, the thread went one and on and I thought I'd read the first page to see what it was all about. Now I'm hooked. Despite the canoe thing being way out of my league, there is so much information that relates to other builds that I could do in the future, so I have read through every comment and inwardly digested. What a great thread for learning. Keep the info and pics coming Russell. I'm now an avid follower :wink: :nerd:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> I just learned the joy of cabinet scrapers. Maybe that would have been easier than a utility knife?
> 
> I have a confession..... I wasn't going to read this thread as there is no way I'll ever build a canoe. BUT, the thread went one and on and I thought I'd read the first page to see what it was all about. Now I'm hooked. Despite the canoe thing being way out of my league, there is so much information that relates to other builds that I could do in the future, so I have read through every comment and inwardly digested. What a great thread for learning. Keep the info and pics coming Russell. I'm now an avid follower :wink: :nerd:


I agree with the scrapers.

Somehow, I don't believe that you are not capable of building a canoe. Never say never, Angie! What, they don't have streams, rivers, and lakes in the UK?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> I was pretty careful when I was applying the filler (epoxy & wood flour) but there still ended up a very thin layer that would just gum up the sanding disks so I decided to scrape everything down first before sanding.


Russell, this should not happen if the epoxy has cured properly. It ought to sand off very cleanly. Sounds to me like it wasn't quite dry enough.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

vindaloo said:


> I just learned the joy of cabinet scrapers. Maybe that would have been easier than a utility knife?
> 
> I have a confession..... I wasn't going to read this thread as there is no way I'll ever build a canoe. BUT, the thread went one and on and I thought I'd read the first page to see what it was all about. Now I'm hooked. Despite the canoe thing being way out of my league, there is so much information that relates to other builds that I could do in the future, so I have read through every comment and inwardly digested. What a great thread for learning. Keep the info and pics coming Russell. I'm now an avid follower :wink: :nerd:


I will have to look into the cabinet scrapers as I will still have the inside of the boat to do prior to sanding and fiber glassing.

One thing I didn't mention about using the Stanley Utility Knife blade. I only used the blades. I didn't use the scraper. Basically I held the blade between my thumb and fingers (with a glove on) and used it to scrape back and forth to remove the epoxy. It was very hard on the fingers and I was glad to be done with that. 

So hopefully these cabinet scrapers will help. I will check them out on my next trip to Menards or Home Depot.

Thanks.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Russell, this should not happen if the epoxy has cured properly. It ought to sand off very cleanly. Sounds to me like it wasn't quite dry enough.


Keith - The epoxy seemed dry to the touch and I had left it dry for over 24 hours before trying to sand it. Not sure why I had this issue. Since I have to heat my shop, I usually go out and turn the heater on and let it run for about an hour before starting work. The shop starts out at about 40 to 45 degrees F and when I start working it is up to about 70 degrees F.

I keep the epoxy in the house and begin to mix it on the way from the house to the shop. I then added the wood flour in the shop and mixed it up quite well.

After it was all applied I kept the temperature in the shop at 70 degrees F for about 8 hours prior to turning off the heater. The epoxy felt dry to the touch at the time I turned the heater off. At which time the temperature in the shop slowly went back to the 45 degrees F.

Not sure what is going on, but I am now past that and will just be sanding for the next couple of times in the shop.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I think you just solved your own problem Russell. The fact that you let the shop cool to 45ºF would be the culprit here. I definitely agree that the epoxy would have felt dry, but in all likelihood it wasn't actually cured.

Try pushing your thumbnail hard into the epoxy next time. If you can leave any dent it isn't ready to be sanded.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> I think you just solved your own problem Russell. The fact that you let the shop cool to 45ºF would be the culprit here. I definitely agree that the epoxy would have felt dry, but in all likelihood it wasn't actually cured.
> 
> Try pushing your thumbnail hard into the epoxy next time. If you can leave any dent it isn't ready to be sanded.


Thanks for the tip. I found that after I sanded the hull with both the 120 grit ad 220 grit I found a few areas that I missed. As much as I don't want to fill them, I will, as I want to do it right. I will definitely make sure those areas are completely cured prior to sanding.

Overall the hull is just about ready for the fiberglass. It is such a nice feeling to run your hand over the hull and feel the smoothness of the surface.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

morgantheship said:


> I will have to look into the cabinet scrapers as I will still have the inside of the boat to do prior to sanding and fiber glassing.
> 
> One thing I didn't mention about using the Stanley Utility Knife blade. I only used the blades. I didn't use the scraper. Basically I held the blade between my thumb and fingers (with a glove on) and used it to scrape back and forth to remove the epoxy. It was very hard on the fingers and I was glad to be done with that.
> 
> ...


scrapers, I swear by em!!! take the time to learn about em, and how to tune em up and use them... they are a fantastic addition to any shop! You can even roll over the edge of a razor like the one you were using. Great for tight spots and detail work...the hook usually doesn't last long, but while its there, it does very nice work for ya....

something else that may be of use for you. When sanding epoxy, varnish or any other top coat...keep an eye out for what they call 
"kernelling" on the sand paper. Small little clumps build up on the paper. This is a very good indication that what ever it is, your sanding, isn't dry enough. Most finishes, even epoxy skin over relatively quickly, drying from the outside, inwards. All of this kinda stuff can drive you crazy, just keep notes of the various tasks along the way and use them as a reference later on....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Plus one more for scrapers. Don't know about Menards but the HD here doesn't have them. I got all but one of mine from Lee Valley plus 2 burnishers. The other scraper came from Lie Neilsen with my FWW subscription.

Russ to aid with curing you could erect a tent out of sheet plastic or a large tarp and put a small heater under it. You wouldn't have to heat your whole shop that way.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Great idea on the tent to heat the hull. I will have to see what I can configure.

As for scrapers. I will check out what is available. I know that the Fleet/Farm store near me carries a full line of paint type scrapers. My wife works at HD and she confirmed your finding that HD doesn't carry them.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Russ to aid with curing you could erect a tent out of sheet plastic or a large tarp and put a small heater under it. You wouldn't have to heat your whole shop that way.


That's exactly how I used to dry my cedar strips. It is surprisingly effective just draping some 6 mil poly over the required drying area.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

The problem with using a knife blade is it only takes one slip to take a huge chunk out. A scraper will remove so little at a time and leave the wood smooth. I just edge joined some 13mm stock and used the scraper to remove any sign of the glued join. It's also very quick.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Additional progress was made over the last few days. Took a short break during Easter as we had our children and grandchildren up for the weekend. Great time with the family.

The first thing I did was to fill some of the cracks/spaces that I missed the first time. I again used a mix of epoxy and wood flour. I did get carried away a bit as it seemed that I found more and more little spaces that I just had to fill. This time I kept the temperature of the shop at 70+ degrees for 24 hours and everything dried properly. 
This made it a lot easier to finish sand using 80 grit/120 grit/and 220 grit. 

Next step was to place a piece of fiberglass over each stem end to provide extra strength. I first cut the cloth (6 oz.) and provided some relief cuts so that it would lay flat. Then I applied a coat of epoxy making sure to wet all of the cloth down and squeeze all edges down. Once this is dry I will attach the outer stems permanently with a bed of epoxy and wood flour between the inner stem surface and the outer stem.

What is really nice to see is what the finished hull will begin to look like once covered with a full covering of glass cloth and epoxy. 

I will again keep the shop temperature at 70+ degrees for a full day to make sure that the epoxy dries properly.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I seem to recall that putting down a skim coat of epoxy down then laying the glass over top of that is a good idea?? Then go about business as usual with the top coat. Can't say thats a fact..
At this point you have got to be getting a good feel for the "looks" of the canoe  I was glad to hear you went over, then over, then back over again filling in the small gaps. I've always found that going the extra mile pays off in the end. In the end, most likely nobody will know but you, but structurally even the smallest of gaps have the potential to be the source of a major headache. Boat or box, do it right, do it once and be done with it. 
Are you counting on the epoxy to adhere the stems by itself or will you use some kind of mechanical fastener? I've always viewed the ends of these canoes as the weak link in the chain. I've destroyed the front of a fiberglass canoe by repeatedly "bumping" into things *L*. Absolutely more my fault than the canoe's, but it did leave a negative impression about just how durable the front of the craft need be. Here again, if you use it for how it is designed, I suspect not an issue at all aside from normal wear and tear. 
I've seen where a 2nd layer of glass has been placed on the bottom of the hull for added durability, is this something your considering?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I seem to recall that putting down a skim coat of epoxy down then laying the glass over top of that is a good idea?? Then go about business as usual with the top coat. Can't say thats a fact..
> At this point you have got to be getting a good feel for the "looks" of the canoe  I was glad to hear you went over, then over, then back over again filling in the small gaps. I've always found that going the extra mile pays off in the end. In the end, most likely nobody will know but you, but structurally even the smallest of gaps have the potential to be the source of a major headache. Boat or box, do it right, do it once and be done with it.
> Are you counting on the epoxy to adhere the stems by itself or will you use some kind of mechanical fastener? I've always viewed the ends of these canoes as the weak link in the chain. I've destroyed the front of a fiberglass canoe by repeatedly "bumping" into things *L*. Absolutely more my fault than the canoe's, but it did leave a negative impression about just how durable the front of the craft need be. Here again, if you use it for how it is designed, I suspect not an issue at all aside from normal wear and tear.
> I've seen where a 2nd layer of glass has been placed on the bottom of the hull for added durability, is this something your considering?


Bill, you bring up some interesting points.

It shouldn't be necessary to pre-wet the hull with epoxy. Here's why.

I agree that is seems logical to do that, but in practice you need to be able to pull out the sheet of fabric over the entire hull and then smooth it out by hand. Should the hull be wet it wouldn't be possible to do that.

The bow of any small canoe or kayak is always the first place to get clobbered and that's where the most damage occurs. But, believe me, when you have gone to the trouble of all the work to build one of these boats, you are far more inclined to be very careful when paddling. I always added two extra layers of fabric on the most vulnerable spots.

It may come as a surprise to learn that the wooden canoe is tougher than the usual fibreglass canoe. Once a 'glass canoe sustains any damage at all, water immediately enters the damaged area and starts to do it's insidious work. A 'glass canoe is invariably made with polyester resin...which permits water to enter into the thousands of tiny micropores in the resin. Epoxy isn't like that at all. Even if you scratch the epoxy, it doesn't allow water ingress. If you penetrate the epoxy/fabric assembly right through to the wood, then obviously there will be water ingress.

Should this happen, you can dry the area out and do an effective repair with epoxy.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I seem to recall that putting down a skim coat of epoxy down then laying the glass over top of that is a good idea?? Then go about business as usual with the top coat. Can't say thats a fact..
> At this point you have got to be getting a good feel for the "looks" of the canoe  I was glad to hear you went over, then over, then back over again filling in the small gaps. I've always found that going the extra mile pays off in the end. In the end, most likely nobody will know but you, but structurally even the smallest of gaps have the potential to be the source of a major headache. Boat or box, do it right, do it once and be done with it.
> Are you counting on the epoxy to adhere the stems by itself or will you use some kind of mechanical fastener? I've always viewed the ends of these canoes as the weak link in the chain. I've destroyed the front of a fiberglass canoe by repeatedly "bumping" into things *L*. Absolutely more my fault than the canoe's, but it did leave a negative impression about just how durable the front of the craft need be. Here again, if you use it for how it is designed, I suspect not an issue at all aside from normal wear and tear.
> I've seen where a 2nd layer of glass has been placed on the bottom of the hull for added durability, is this something your considering?


Bill – The reason for putting both fiberglass and epoxy over the stems was to add additional strength to the canoe. The bow is typically the place that takes the most abuse in any canoe/kayak. My wife and I both have plastic kayaks and it is quite obvious after a number of years of paddling that the bow of each of our kayaks have seen a lot more abrasions than the rest of the boat.

As to how I will attach the outer stems. My next step was to “Dry” fit the outer stems to the bow and stern. (see pictures). With them dry fitted, I then drilled and counter sank brass screws every 6” along the outer stem to attach it to the inner stem. Before attaching permanently, I will apply a very thick mixture of epoxy and wood flour between the inner and outer stems. Once applied I will then use the counter-sunk brass screws to pull the outer stem in close contact with the inner stem. Then as the mixture of epoxy and wood flour squeezes out from between the inner and outer stem, I will make sure that the edges are completely filled and that there is a smooth bead between the outer stem and the hull. 

Once all of that dries I will then take the sharp edges off of the outer stem and blend it with the hull of the canoe. At that point the canoe will be ready for the complete covering of the hull with fiberglass and epoxy. 

I am still undecided as to add or not add an additional layer of cloth and epoxy to just the bottom area of the canoe prior to the application of the cloth and epoxy over the entire hull. I have to do some more research and have some additional discussions with the designer before making my decision on that.

My today plans got scuttled due to the quick change in our weather and the 2 to 3 inches of snow that fell this morning. Hopefully tomorrow will give me a better opportunity to move ahead with the gluing and fastening of the outer stems to the canoe.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Looking really nice Russell.

Another area to consider for an extra layer of fabric is at the turn of the bilge. That frequently takes nearly as much abuse as the bow.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to prepare each of the stems for attaching the outer stem pieces.

Initially I shaped each of the stems at the point that they met the bottom of the canoe. I used a chisel to shape the ends and make a nice smooth transition. Final shaping will be performed after the stems are in place and dried.

Next I mixed up a batch of epoxy and wood flour. Made it like a thick paste. Then spread it on the inner stem and placed the outer stem in place. Slowly tightened the brass screws which caused the epoxy to squeeze out between the stems on each side. Making sure that all spaces and joints are filled with epoxy. Then using my finger I made a nice bead the full length of the stem on both sides. I went back when finished with both ends of the canoe and wiped any excess epoxy off as it will be much easier to take care of now verses after it cures and dries. 

I am keeping the shop at 70+ degrees for the next 12+ hours to assist in the curing and drying of the epoxy.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

morgantheship said:


> My today plans got scuttled


Terrible choice of word for a boat-builder 

Seriously though, this project is coming along brilliantly. I'm impressed with how much you've achieved in just a few weeks Russell.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell/Keith... thanks for the come back guys....as always this has been most enlightening and informative. I have to agree with Andy in that I'm really surprised at which this project has progressed. Given ideal conditions and the free time, this build can be accomplished in a very reasonable time frame.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

After a couple of days off I made some more progress on the canoe.

I sanded both of the stems so that they did not have any sharp edge look to them. I wanted a rounded look on the stems. I believe they turned out how I envisioned them. 

Next step will be to put some wood bungs in each of the counter-sunk screw holes. I will use either ash or oak.

The next thing I did today was to wipe the entire hull down with water. This will cause the wood grain to lift up and after it is completely dry, I will do the final sanding prior to fiber glassing. 

With the hull wet you can see exactly what it will look like once covered in glass and epoxy. I like it.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

It look great, Russell. That is going to be one fine looking canoe and will definitely attract attention and cause canoe envy.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Sorry Russell but did I miss the sanding of the inside? I saw the sanding of the outside. Or is the inside a monster that you're trying to ignore at the moment :laugh2:


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I know that I should have read the second half of the instruction manual as well as watch the second DVD that came with the plans. If I had only known that I would have to go through this sanding process all over again ....... I would have done it anyway. I am having so much fun and am enjoying the progress that I make each time I work on my canoe. 

I will make the offer to you since you brought it to my attention, once I turn the boat over, you are welcome to come and help sand the inside.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Oooops, sorry I raised the monster issue 

I too am enjoying the process, from a distance


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

With the weather nice and warm today I was able to easily heat my shop up to 70+ degrees this morning and began preparing to put a protective layer of fiber glass cloth and resin on the bottom area of the canoe. 

I first laid out and cut the cloth into a football shape. Due to the cloth being 50” wide I used two separate pieces which also allowed me to concentrate on one area at a time. With the cloth in place I smoothed it down so that there were no bulges. With everything smoothed I mixed up my first batch of epoxy. I started in the middle of the canoe along the keel line and worked the epoxy into the cloth making sure that it was saturated enough and that any white areas (dry cloth) were covered. I then used the squeegee to move any excess epoxy off of the cloth.

Once the first half was finished I mixed up a second batch of epoxy and repeated what I did on the first half. 

The one thing I found was that it was important to make sure that any excess epoxy was squeegeed off. I then performed a second squeegee of all of the cloth to make sure I did not have drips and runs. 

I did find after everything set up that I had a few areas that had a higher concentration of epoxy that were taking longer to dry. But by the end of the day with keeping the shop at 70+ (got up to 75 for a short time) the epoxy set up properly and I was able to run my hand over all of the cloth. The last picture shows the texture of the finished work. 

Next step will be to let everything thoroughly dry. I plan on rolling the canoe outside tomorrow and let the sun and warm air assist in the curing process. In a couple of days I will run my sander over the edges to break any high spots down and prepare the hull for the complete cloth and epoxy covering.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Great job Russell. I guess I'll have to make another bowl of popcorn. I've gone through the first one already!

I have really enjoyed the build. One of these days...one of these days...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Just very cool stuff Russell!! Anytime I've every worked with fiberglass, I get an annoying amount of stringing or fraying of the glass along the edges. Was/is that the case with what your using? I suspect it may be as much a matter of technique as anything else. Sounds as though the epoxy mix is quite workable. Any issues with smell, mess, getting the epoxy on the floor (those kind of annoying things that always seem to come along during a project)? What kind of open time are you experiencing? As you were applying the epoxy, you had to start getting a feel for just how she's gonna look. Are you happy with that aspect of the build? Really, really appreciate the fact that you just don't post the 'glamour' shots!! You give a true feel for how things have come along and how certain areas of the build progress from one step to the next.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Bill – I also had the stringing or fraying situation. I tried to minimize it by making fresh cuts along the edges of the cloth prior to applying the epoxy. But even with that I still had the fraying take place. Guess I haven’t developed the technique to stop this from happening as of yet but most likely it a common issue with working with fiber glass. I shot another picture this morning of one of the edges to show that I have the fraying issue. I will just take my sander and sand the areas down to make a nice smooth transition so that I don’t end up with any noticeable ridges in the final covering.

The epoxy mix has been great. The epoxy that I am using has a 2:1 mix of epoxy and hardener. I am being very careful in my mixing of amounts and then I spend 2 to 3 minutes stirring. 

As far as drips and mess on the floor. Since I was only doing a portion of the bottom I was able to control the amount of epoxy that I put on. When I do the next step of covering the whole hull, then I am sure I will have the dripping and excess ending up on the floor. I plan to put a sheet of plastic down to protect the floor. The epoxy I am using has NO smell or odor. That makes it very nice to work with and since the hardener that I am using is a slow hardener, I have 10 to 20 minutes of working time.

I am keeping the shop up above 70 degrees right now and as the day goes on I plan to wheel it outside to dry more in the sun and warmth of the day.

I appreciate the questions and am open to answering and letting you or anyone else know what I have been learning with this build. I have been trying to post my process so that it is understood but I am sure that I am missing some things that I take for granite but might not be obvious to everyone else.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Curing and drying in the sun shine. 72 degrees outside today in Wisconsin. Beautiful day.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell, you gotta cut it out brother!!! *L* This is making me nuts!!


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Words can't describe what you are accomplishing I started in wooden boats then fiberglass, until I retired from steel and aluminum. This is the finest work I've seen in a long time. Can't imagine doing anything close to this.
Go man Go.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Didn’t do much on the canoe today. Other chores kept me occupied most of the day. 

But what I was able to do was remove the counter-sunk screws that I put in each of the stems to hold them in place while the epoxy cured in preparation for putting wood plugs in. 

Once removed I found that I had to take a ¼” bit and make the holes a bit deeper to accept the wood plugs. I then put a coat of glue around the edge of the plug and tapped them into the holes with a mallet. After a few hours I used my sanding stick to sand them down to the level of the stem. 

The stems are white ash and the plugs are birch which gives a nice contrast to the white ash. Later on the stems will be covered with epoxy to seal them. Pictures show plugs in place prior to sanding and finished look.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Finding it amazing just how the epoxy is being relied upon to hold things together...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Finding it amazing just how the epoxy is being relied upon to hold things together...


wundered the same...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> wundered the same...


I have just been following the instructions. On this, I actually called Jack from Sandy Point Boat Works and asked him about leaving the screws in the stems. He indicated that he takes all screws out and then plugs the holes. 

Hope he is correct as I would hate to go to all this work and find that the stems begin to come apart halfway down the river.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

The stems won't come apart.

But if you have used bronze screws, you can leave them in there and they will last longer than you or I.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Since I am waiting on warmer weather to put the full covering of fiber glass and epoxy on the canoe, I decided to work on building a paddle. The canoe that I am building is termed a double paddle canoe or more specifically a canoe that you use a kayak paddle instead of a traditional canoe paddle.

Using the information and the chapter from the book written by Gil Gilpatrick, “Building a Strip Canoe”, I figured out that I could build a double ended paddle with the directions and information that he provided for building a traditional paddle. 

The first step was to build a platform to build the paddle on. Next step was to trace the blade design on each end. I used my existing kayak paddle as a template and am making it the exact length of my kayak paddle. 

The paddle will have a center hardwood piece running for end to end and will be re-in forced with hardwood splines along with cedar to form the shaft. The blades will be made of cedar strips ¼” thick (same strips that were used to strip the hull of the canoe).

I will detail things as I progress as well as providing pictures as I build the paddle.

Tomorrow I plan on cutting the hardwood (white ash) along with the required cedar and hopefully glue the initial strips together to form the core of the paddle.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I cut the white ash strips and the cedar strips in preparation of gluing the strips to begin the double ended paddle (kayak style paddle).

The initial paddle consists of a hardwood strip (white ash) that runs end to end in the middle of the paddle. On each side of the ash strip are cedar strips that also run the full length of the paddle. At each end cedar strips are used to make up the actual paddle size. Everything is glued using wood glue.

Everything is clamped and left to dry for about 1 ½ hours. At that point the strips are taken from the jig so that the glue that is on the bottom side against the plastic is allowed to dry. (See pictures of strips in the gluing jig and then glued strips in the paddle form). 

I also cut the strips for the splines (see picture). A spline will be laminated to each side of the handle in a later step. Tomorrow I plan to epoxy the strips that make up each spline. Each spline is made up of a hardwood strip in the middle and cedar strips on each side of the hardwood strip. The epoxied splines will then be formed and eventually epoxied on each side of the paddle.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I epoxied the splines together. Each spline has a hardwood strip (white ash) in the center with cedar strips on each side. I used the jig that I made for making the paddle core and with the assistance of additional blocks and clamps I left everything to cure and dry after applying the epoxy.

The first picture is of the pieces of the two splines and the last pictures are of the clamping.

Once dry I will sand down smooth and begin to shape the ends of the splines to the correct length and shape.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Dang Russell, you seem to be getting the hang of this woodworking thing  

I have always thought that paddles were kind of a personal thing. Its gotta be just right. 

Can't say I was every really "taught" the "correct" way to paddle, so I guess I just kinda winged it, in the beginning. Since then
I've used any number of different designs and keep going back to just a good ole flat blade. You can't be a good wooden paddle.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

With such a sunny and beautiful day I was able to move my sanding operation outdoors. It makes it so nice to be able to sand outside as the wind takes all of the sawdust away and my shop doesn’t get dusty.

Today I sanded and prepared the splines and the paddle for the next step of epoxying everything together. 

I first used a sabre saw to cut the paddle shape to match my existing kayak paddle. Each side of the paddle was then sanded smooth. Next, I cut the two splines to the correct length. The instructions indicated that the splines should come within about 12” of the end of the paddle. 

I then shaped the end of each spline using my bench sander. The shape can be whatever you desire. I liked the look of a smooth rounded end verses a sharp pointed end. 

Pictures include the sanded paddle core alongside the matching kayak paddle, and the two splines ready to be cut to length and shaped. Also included are pictures of the shaped spline ends along with a picture of what the spline will look like when epoxied to the paddle.

Tomorrow my plan is to make a fixture for holding the paddle and splines during the epoxying phase.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Getting kinda tired of repeating myself, but its well deserved Russell...Great work on this entire project. And the thread itself is a keeper. 
Doesn't look like I'll be doing a build tis summer. Grandson says we need to get on the water a few more times to see if he wants to go forward and build one. *S*. For a 10 year old, he sure is practical. I'm of the mind that good ole common sense hasn't been wasn't on him. 

Been running across quite a few deals on the "sit on top" kayaks. Ever use em? thoughts?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Thank you for the kind comments. I was just mentioning to my wife last night that I really enjoyed posting the progress of my canoe on the forum as it helped me to think through what I was doing prior to doing it and it gave me some accountability. I have to admit that the positive comments certainly are a nice pat on the back. 

Anyhow, regarding your questions on kayaks. My wife and I have had our kayaks for 20+ years and we don’t regret the investment and the selection. Both of our kayaks are 14’ in length. They are considered touring kayaks and are fairly stable in the water. You can tip them over but you have to work at it. I have a rudder on mine which helps in tracking. 

Although, the 14’ length helps in tracking as well. We have kayaked rivers, ponds, small lakes and even Lake Michigan. Rivers are fun as you have the current to assist you if you are going down river. Small lakes are also good as long as there are not power boats on them that make waves and don’t seem to care about kayaks. And Lake Michigan is only good in and around the harbors and if it is quite calm. 

As far as “sit on top” kayaks. I have never been in one but I suspect that they are quite stable. The only down side I see to them is that you are sitting so high off of the water. 

In a standard kayak you are sitting low to the water which to me makes you feel more part of the water and adds to the paddling experience. The one thing I would suggest is get at least a 12’ or 14’ one as the shorter ones tend not to track very well and are much more difficult to paddle. We also have a 10’ and an 8’ kayak for the grandchildren. I have used them a few times but they are difficult to steer and to me not a lot of fun to paddle. 

Here are a couple of pictures of my wife’s and my kayaks as well as the smaller ones we have for visitors and our grandchildren.

Best if you have a place that sells kayaks that let you try some different designs and lengths prior to purchase. I know we have a few places like that close to us which is a great help to first time kayakers.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to epoxy the splines to each side of the paddle core. I first made a jig to hold the paddle for clamping. I dry fitted the pieces together with clamps and laid them out so that once the epoxy was applied I would not have to go looking for the correct clamps.

I used a brush to put the epoxy on the splines and both sides of the paddle core. I had previously marked the center of the paddle so that the splines would line up properly when it came time to put them together.

After applying the epoxy I used spring clamps to initially hold the pieces together but found that the spring clamps did not clamp as well as I thought they should so I began using screw clamps which allowed me to pull the pieces together nicely. Not too tight as I did not want to squeeze out the epoxy but tight enough to have a little bit of the epoxy come out along each of the splines and paddle core.

I am keeping the shop at 75 to 80 degrees and will keep it that way until later tonight at which time I will turn off the heater. Tomorrow I will remove the paddle but plan on letting it dry a few more days prior to shaping the handle/grip.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

The paddle after taking all of the clamps off. I was surprised at how light it is and it will only get lighter as I shape the handle/grip. Will let it cure a few more days before using the sander on it.

Once the handle/grip is shaped I will work on the blades and prepare them for fiber glassing.

Still waiting for warmer weather so that I can put the complete fiber glass coat on the hull of the canoe. I plan to be patient as one only gets one shot at that.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I fiber glassed the bottom sides of the decks. This is meant to seal everything so that once the decks are in place on the canoe, all wood is sealed from water intrusion.

First cut the cloth and laid out and smoothed. Then mixed up a small batch of epoxy (4 ½ oz’s. total with epoxy and hardener). Ended up that I had to mix three batches of epoxy to cover everything. The wood seemed quite hungry.

It made me realize that I will need a second person to help me when fiber glassing the complete hull. Someone that can mix as well as squeeze.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I worked on sanding the handle of the paddle. I used the belt sander to initially take some of the material off and begin to round the edges of the handle. Then I used a palm sander to further shape the handle. I originally was going to make a round handle but after beginning the sanding process I realized that it was going to be very difficult to actually make the handle round. So I decided to make the handle oblong, like many canoe paddles. It seems to have a good feel to it and offers a firm grip.

After getting the handle to what I thought would be a good size I then used a sanding block and ended by using handheld sandpaper. I will wait a day or two and see if I want to remove more of the wood or leave it as is. 

The pictures somewhat show the shape but I found it difficult to get a good picture that shows the actual shape.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

The proof will be in the pudding as they say... The oblong handle design is of interest. The great thing is that if it doesn't work out, you can always sand away and get it to where you want it, at the very least in the area where you grip the paddle. Do you think that the cedar blades will hold up over time? 

I can picture ya in the shop just swinging that paddle like you were playing a air guitar


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

And just to confirm, Bill was correct. I was swinging the paddle like playing an air guitar. 

Today I was able to work on the paddle. 

I first used a ¼” round file and ran it along the edge of each blade to make a groove to accept the curvature of the 3/16” nylon rope that will be epoxied to the edge of each blade. The reason for the rope is to add some protection to the edge of the blades. Each blade will then be covered with fiberglass and epoxy to make the blades stiff and durable. The rope ends will be cut and flared into the paddle.

Initially I coated each blade with epoxy so that when I put the fiberglass on the epoxy will not have to soak into the wood. I then soaked the rope in the epoxy so that it was saturated prior to applying it to the edge of each blade. I used some sewing pins to hold the rope in position until it dries. Once dry I will remove the pins and shape the ends of the rope.

Since I had a bunch of epoxy mixed and had no place to use it I decided to apply a coat to the entire handle. It will be eventually sanded and recoated with a finish coat later on. 

Next step will be to sand the blades and handle and then apply fiber glass cloth to both sides of each blade.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Can't say I have ever seen a bead of anything used along the edge of the paddle. A very clever idea!!! Man, talk about saving wear and tear on the paddle...Especially on flat water... geesh, that thing will out last you now  Early on, I spent years looking for a paddle slash push pole *L*. I used to say when we were out in an aluminum canoe that there was no sense fishing, they could hear us coming from 20 miles away. To my eye, this build has a long deep stream paddle written all over it....wutta beaut


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I put a layer of fiber glass and epoxy on one side of each blade. I also added a small decal to personalize it. 

I initially ran into a problem with the fiber glass cloth as I tried to have it cover part of the spline as well as the blade. I found that I could not get the cloth to lay flat when I applied the epoxy and finally I decided to cut out the area of cloth that was covering the spline. It sure is a mess trying to cut cloth with epoxy on it. On the second blade I precut the cloth prior to applying the epoxy and things went much smoother. 

I made sure that I filled all of the spaces between the blade edge and the nylon rope. 

Once dry, I will turn over and repeat the process on the back side of each blade.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

nuttin wrong with dat!!!!


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I fiber glassed and epoxied the back side of each blade. 

I first cut off all of the excess cloth that was hanging over the blade edge. Then I cut the cloth to fit the blades with a cutout for the spline.

Process went a lot smoother on the back side.

When everything is dry I will trim the excess cloth and then sand the edges to remove any sharp ends and prepare both sides for a filler coat of epoxy. 

I think they are beginning to look pretty good.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I used a sander to sand down the edges of the fiber glass that over lapped the nylon rope edge on each blade. I then converted to hand sanding and when finished the edge was a nice round shape with glass cloth covering the majority of the nylon rope.

Completely sanded the blades and prepared them for a filler coat of epoxy. I think I might need one more coat of filler epoxy to completely cover the cloth texture. I only coated the blades and will coat the handle once the blades are complete.

I was very pleased with how the nylon rope edges turned out. I have attached some pictures of the blade after sanding, after coating with epoxy, and what the edge looks like.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Magnified the last batch of pictures to take a good look at that edge. Fine work Russell..

As I like to say at work, when all they got is nit picky stuff,,, you're doing pretty good  and brother, thats about all I got *L*


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

In the last couple of days I worked on the paddle. I spent more time sanding the blades prior to applying the filler coat of epoxy. I found that using 220/320 grit paper made the world of difference once I applied the epoxy. It cured and dried much better looking and smoother than my first attempt. I also put a light coat of epoxy on the handle. 

Next I will sand everything lightly and apply the last coat of epoxy. Once dry I will steel wool the entire paddle and begin applying the first coat of varnish.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

The time has now come to put a complete covering of fiber glass on the hull of the canoe. I have been waiting for a window of warm weather as well as a time that my wife can assist me in mixing and applying the epoxy. Tomorrow is the big day.

I realize that many other people have done this and I have watched the video and read the manual a number of times but I find this a somewhat scary step. If something goes wrong, there is no easy solution to poorly or incorrectly applied cloth and epoxy. It is a large area, in my mind at least, so I have some fears in that I have never done anything like this. But I have prepared the best I can.

I first cleaned out my shop of all of my equipment that I could move. I then swept and used the leaf blower to blow any dust from the shop. I blew the ceiling, lights, tools on the wall, and especially the floor. Then I blew it all again. Moved the canoe back into place and closed the doors.

I carefully wiped down the hull with a clean cloth. Then my wife helped me lay the fiber glass cloth on the hull. I let that set for a night and this morning I trimmed everything and made sure that the cloth was laying nice and flat against the hull. Around the stems I cut the cloth close to the stems as the cloth and epoxy will only come up to each side of the stems (not over the stem).

So tomorrow morning we will begin the process. I will update hopefully with a successful description of this step along with some pictures.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today, my wife and I applied the fiber glass and resin to the entire hull. I first heated up the shop to about 80 degrees and then turned off the heater as the outside temperature was going to be around 70 today.

My wife and I started by mixing up two 6 oz. batches of resin. While she mixed I began applying the resin to the cloth. I made sure that I saturated the cloth enough to get it all wet but I also tried to not over saturate it. It took us a total of six batches of resin of 6 oz. each and then one final batch of resin in the amount of 3 oz. Total 39 oz.

I started at the bottom center of the canoe and worked my way down and towards each stem. The first three batches covered one half of the canoe and the other half used a bit more resin, for whatever reason, I don’t know. 

After the bottom was completely covered I then spent another 30 to 45 minutes using the squeegee to remove all excess resin. I found that for some reason the turn of the bilge collected excess epoxy.

Total elapsed time was about 2 hours. It actually went faster than I expected and was a lot easier than I expected. I will say that it was very helpful to have an extra set of hands. My wife did all of the mixing while I applied the resin to the canoe. 

The attached pictures were taken just after applying the resin, so it still has a wet look to it. The last time I checked the resin was setting up nicely and was tacky and in some spots dry to the touch.

I have to admit that I am relieved that this step is over. It turned out to be much easier than I envisioned and has given me the confidence for when I have to do the same thing to the inside of the canoe. I would highly recommend a second pair of hands as it allowed me to concentrate solely on applying the epoxy.

Next step will be to lightly sand and then begin the filler coat(s), depending upon how much fill is required to completely cover the cloth.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Mr. Russell: Well hon, what do ya think

Mrs. Russell: I really like it! I didn't realize how nice it would look

Mr. Russell: Yeah, she looks pretty nice don't she..........

Mrs. Russell: does that wood come in pink????

Looks great Russell. I"m really surprised that the glass laid down so nicely. I had pictured tons on wrinkles to be ironed out. Actually, as you mention, it seems to be all pretty straight forward. 2 hours of sweating the details gotta be tough. Was there much in the way of waste with the epoxy? Did you just keep up with it as you went along rather than big batches? Not going to go with a 2nd layer of glass on the bottom? Did you notice much in the way of imperfections as you were squeegeeing the epoxy?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

morgantheship said:


> Today, my wife and I applied the fiber glass and resin to the entire hull. I first heated up the shop to about 80 degrees and then turned off the heater as the outside temperature was going to be around 70 today.
> 
> My wife and I started by mixing up two 6 oz. batches of resin. While she mixed I began applying the resin to the cloth. I made sure that I saturated the cloth enough to get it all wet but I also tried to not over saturate it. It took us a total of six batches of resin of 6 oz. each and then one final batch of resin in the amount of 3 oz. Total 39 oz.
> 
> ...


I was surprised at how well the epoxy went on and now I know that this can be done successfully without a lot of anxiety and stress. 

My wife enjoyed your comments and indicated to me that she feels more a part of being a boat builder now that she put some time into it. She also reminded me that the mixing of the epoxy was the ‘key’ to the success….. LOL. I asked her if she would like me to make a wood canoe for her. She replied that she would like a wood kayak. So a cedar strip kayak might very well be in my future.

Regarding how the glass laid down. The dry fitting of the cloth prior to applying the epoxy certainly helped in making sure that it laid flat on the surface of the canoe. The key to keeping any wrinkles out was starting in the middle and always working the epoxy down and towards the stems. I only had one small issue of a wrinkle and once I saw it, I was able to use the squeegee to work it down and out at the bottom. I did find that I had to be careful in using the squeegee as if I applied too much pressure, one could begin to stretch the cloth. 

As to the use of the epoxy and any waste. I am sure that I wasted more than I will the next time I do something like this. I used a paint tray to catch as much of the epoxy as I squeegeed it towards the bottom. Some of the epoxy of course was collected in the fiber glass cloth at the bottom but much of the overrun was captured in the tray. I was then able to pour it on or use the squeegee to transfer the epoxy to the cloth.

Batch size was 6 oz. each. Initially, we started with two batches but then as I used up the epoxy that was in the paint tray my wife would mix the next batch. Each batch was mixed for 2 ½ minutes to insure a through mixing. But again I will state that having someone to do the mixing while I concentrated on applying the epoxy was very helpful.

Second layer of cloth on bottom. I had previously put on a football shaped piece of fiber glass and epoxy on the very bottom of the canoe. So the bottom does have two layers of fiber glass and epoxy. Hopefully, that will be sufficient to protect the bottom.

As to imperfections. I really didn’t see or encounter any imperfections as I was squeegeeing the epoxy. I found that I had to make sure that the white color of the cloth was thoroughly saturated with epoxy. It was actually quite easy to see if one was filling the cloth enough. When I found a section of white showing I would then move epoxy with the squeegee in a number of different directions over the spot until it was saturated and the whiteness disappeared.

Prior to coming in the house this evening I checked everything in the shop and everything is dry to the touch. I was able to run my hand over the entire surface of the canoe. I could not see any noticeable area anywhere that there was an issue. I will go over everything in the morning when I have more light but I don’t think there is anything that is going to cause an issue. Of course, with my limited experience on fiber glassing, I do not confess to being an expert.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

This morning I cut the excess cloth from the bottom of the canoe. As I was doing this I noticed two (2) spots that somehow the epoxy did not saturate the cloth or the cloth pulled away from the wood during the curing process which left an air space between the wood and the cloth.

I carefully went over the entire hull and was pleased that there were only these two spots. And both spots were on the edge of the canoe which will eventually be covered by the white ash gunnels (both inside and out). 

So I plan to cut the area of cloth out and put some additional epoxy and cloth to correct the spots. I am not real concerned as it is something that is easily repaired and since those spots will be covered by the ash gunnels it effects nothing at all. I will do the repair prior to applying the filler coat.

For some reason the pictures don't seem to upload. If they are not included, I will attach them later.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Pictures of subject areas.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

just spit ballin'... but is it possible that just the weight of the excess epoxy on the apron during the tacking up was just enough to cause a small gap at the trim. The apron drying quicker than the glass on the hull may have caused just enough pressure to pull away slightly..

Hell, all in all, two widdle boogers..not to shabby Russell....

Got the plans you sent.. Thank you sir!!! 

btw, you know I hate you don't you???


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Yesterday I sanded the fiber glass cloth that met at each side of the stems. I made sure that there were no air bubbles and also that everything was smooth to the touch so that no sharp edges remained. 

I then applied a coat of epoxy to each side of the stems to seal everything as well as covering the stems. This was all in preparation of applying a filler coat of epoxy to the whole hull.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I applied the filler coat of epoxy to the hull. It was really very easy to apply with the smooth roller and only took about 30 minutes. It only took two batches of 6 oz. each to cover the complete hull. Once applied, I then took the roller and went over the entire surface a few times to make sure that the epoxy was evenly applied. It appears though that a second filler coat will need to be applied to completely cover the texture of the cloth. 

I will give it a few more hours to dry and then will determine if another coat is required.

I did attach a few pictures of the application and I would imagine that after a while that the pictures begin to look identical to others that I have posted in the past. But in reality, they are different and relevant to this particular step.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

The third pic in that last set is the money shot!!!!! Man, these are just beautiful builds and your doing it justice Russell...


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

morgantheship said:


> Today I applied the filler coat of epoxy to the hull. It was really very easy to apply with the smooth roller and only took about 30 minutes. It only took two batches of 6 oz. each to cover the complete hull. Once applied, I then took the roller and went over the entire surface a few times to make sure that the epoxy was evenly applied. It appears though that a second filler coat will need to be applied to completely cover the texture of the cloth.
> 
> I will give it a few more hours to dry and then will determine if another coat is required.
> 
> I did attach a few pictures of the application and I would imagine that after a while that the pictures begin to look identical to others that I have posted in the past. But in reality, they are different and relevant to this particular step.


Russell,your canoe looks like it's going flat-out when standing still.Congratulations on a beautiful build.James


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> I did attach a few pictures of the application and I would imagine that after a while that the pictures begin to look identical to others that I have posted in the past. But in reality, they are different and relevant to this particular step.


Don't be concerned with too many or similar pictures. You have done a fantastic job of providing step by step instructions and great visual aids during the whole build. Pictures are a great part of the teaching process.

Most people learn from visual input. Few can completely read, understand, and fully visualize written descriptions. If you utilize both written and visual descriptions, then you will have a successful tutorial. 

You, sir, have done an excellent job.

If this thread doesn't inspire some folks to attempt a similar build, then I don't know what will.

Excellent job, Russell, thanks.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

This canoe is going to be the fastest of its kind on the lake.I look forward to seeing photos of it being launched,or better yet,a video.Many thanks for all the hard work you've put in & also for posting the pictures etc. James.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Sorry for the delay in posting updates on the progress of the canoe. Life has been busy with the grandchildren ending their school year and getting the garden and food plot planted. 

I have a bunch of updates that I will begin posting over the next few days.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Well the time has finally come to turn the canoe over. With three ‘fill’ coats on the hull I am excited to turn the canoe over and begin working on the inside.

With the help of my wife, we removed all of the stations (forms) except the ones at the bow and stern of the canoe. We then removed the final screws from the ends and gently lifted the canoe and turned it over. Note the blue painter’s tape that came off the edges of the stations (forms). The tape will be easily removed as I begin the sanding process.

Next step was to build a set of supports for the slings to support the canoe while working on it. The slings protect the bottom of the canoe so that it does not come in contact with any hard surface. Note that I have tied lines to each stem and secured them to the supports to keep the canoe from swaying back and forth as one is working on it.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Sanding the inside was much more difficult than the outside due to the concave shape verses the convex shape. On the outside of the hull I was able to use a sanding stick which made sanding much quicker but that was not going to work on the inside of the hull. I purchased a 3M pad (about 3/8” thick) that attached to my hook & loop random orbital sander which allowed the sanding disks to conform to the curve of the hull. It worked pretty well but I found that I still needed something to get into the some of the areas on the hull. So I had read somewhere to take a one-liter coke bottle and fill it full of water (for stiffness) and then wrap a sheet of sand paper around that. I tried it and was amazed at how well it worked. But when it came time to sand near the stems, hand sanding with a small sanding block was the only alternative. 

I sanded the inside of the hull first with 60 grit, then 80 grit and finally 120 grit. Thankfully it was nice outside and most of the sanding was done in the sunshine. I then took my air hose and blew all the dust away. 

Once sanded I mixed up some thick epoxy with wood flour and filled the various small holes and spaces. 

That dried overnight and today I finish sanded everything again and wiped and blew all the dust away and tomorrow I will begin to lay the fiber glass cloth on the inside in preparation of mixing up epoxy and applying to the inside of the hull.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I first laid the fiber glass cloth on the inside of the hull with the excess draped over the edges. I then made sure that the cloth laid flat along the hull and cut out the areas around each stem. I also cut most of the excess cloth off that was draped over the edges.

As with applying the fiber glass cloth and epoxy to the outside of the hull, my wife assisted and mixed all of the epoxy as I applied it to the cloth. It is really a two person job and I am grateful for the help. Starting from the bottom of the canoe in the middle I worked the epoxy into the cloth and up each side with the squeegee and continued to work the epoxy out to each stem. Since I had precut the cloth up to each of the stems, it was fairly easy to apply the epoxy and squeeze off the excess. Some did collect and due to gravity ran down to the bottom of the canoe by each stem but I figured that extra epoxy would only provide additional stiffness to the boat.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I then cut pieces of fiber glass cloth to cover the stems and to help reinforce each stem end. Each piece was about 6" x 6" which I then dipped in epoxy and hand molded the pieces from the top of the stem down to the keel area. I used a brush to apply more epoxy to make sure that all the cloth was well saturated. 

Once everything had dried overnight I lightly sanded some areas that formed some small bubbles. It seemed to bubble at some of the locations of the small staple holes. Most likely as these were not filled with any filler. After two filler coats, everything was covered and looked great. Now I was ready for working on the gunnels and decks.


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## VinnieLopez (Jun 3, 2016)

Beautiful! I would love to do this one day.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Since the gunnels pieces have to be the length of the canoe or longer, I first ripped some white ash down to 5/8” width by 7/8” thick. I needed a total of eight (8) pieces as I would be scarfing them to end up with four lengths longer than 14’. Two would be used for the inwales and two would be used for the outwales. I had enough wood to make a total of nine (9) pieces just in case I made some mistakes along the way.

I have not had good success at cutting scarfs for gluing in the past so I figured that I would make a jig to assist in the cutting of accurate angles for all pieces. I used the dimension of 7/8” (0.875”) as a reference and wanted the scarf joints to be a total of 7” or eight (8) times the thickness in length. I was actually very pleased with the jig and how consistent each scarf cut ended up. 

Tomorrow I will plan on mixing up some epoxy with wood flour and glue them together.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I mixed up a batch of epoxy with wood flour and glued and clamped the gunnels strips together. I will leave then clamped for the next 24+ hours and then take the clamps off and will let them sit another day before sanding and fitting to the canoe.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

WOW!!!!

is wood flour the same as sanding swarf???


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

That was a very exciting series of updates  Looking good!


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> WOW!!!!
> 
> is wood flour the same as sanding swarf???


Wood flour is basically very fine sawdust. I purchased a pound of hardwood wood flour and use it to thicken the epoxy so that it doesn't run as well as adding to it's bonding strength when gluing two wood surfaces together.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

ah...
sifted sanding swarf...


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Taking the white ash that I scarfed together I sanded each piece and then used a ¼” round over bit on my router to put a round edge on the top and bottom of each wood strip that I will be using for the inner and outer wales for the gunnel. 

You can possibly see the rounded edges along with the scarf joint as well as the scarf joint.

I then clamped the outer wale to see what it would look like. I am getting excited as the canoe is somewhat coming down the home stretch. Tomorrow I plan to glue and screw the outer wale on.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Mini fibres and cab-o-sil added to your epoxy also make an excellent glue for scarf joints.

How long before launching day now Russell?


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> WOW!!!!
> 
> is wood flour the same as sanding swarf???


It's actually finely ground wood cellulose Stick. Not quite the same thing as fine sawdust.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> Mini fibres and cab-o-sil added to your epoxy also make an excellent glue for scarf joints.
> 
> How long before launching day now Russell?


Keith - As I yet I have not set a launching date as there seems to be so much going on with the summer. 

My wife and I have decided to expand my work shop. It is currently about 10' x 24' which makes it difficult to have my power equipment in the shop area along with the project that I am working on. So it was my wife's suggestion (God bless her) to expand the shop. We will be adding another 16' to the width. So the final shop size will be about 26' x 24'. That will enable me to add a wood burning stove for heat as well as have all my power equipment and benches all in one location. I am blessed. So depending upon when the contractor begins work it might delay the launching of the canoe. 

I can live with that though.


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

"so it was my wife's suggestion (God bless her) to expand the shop." You must treat her really well. That's going to be a great shop size!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

ut ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. My spidey senses are tingling.....

"my wife's suggestion" says you! Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm says I...

nothing good can come of this nefarious change of events. 

Next thing you know, she'll be walking around the house, room by room.

Nook by nook, drawer by drawer with a gleem in her eyes, a pencil tucked 

behind her right ear and a notepad in hand.....phrases like "what if", "I wonder",

"do you think if we...", "what about" begin to drift into the daily chit chat.....

calm retorts begin to filter in, consisting of "If I had", "i'll need...."and so on and so on. 

In short order your days are filled with trips to the big box stores and countless hours

spent perusing the latest catalogues and mailers. Each "honey, do you think we could....." is

promptly followed with a "We'll have to get........". The honey do list becomes a challenge to the 

woodworkers ego.... you run out and get "YES I CAN" tattooed on your bicep, she gets "YES YOU CAN" 

tattooed on the small of her back.. Soon the neighbors start bringing over cherry pies and offer to 

change the oil in your cars. The kids begin to vi for favorite status, dropping hints like they were lead balloons. 

Around the water cooler you start using phrases like 8 quarter, figured, fiddleback and climb cut. At the check out

counter your favorite stain and finish schedule dominate the discourse...

no good can come of this I say, no goot at all.....................................................


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@TwoSkies57...

and the plot thickens...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Stick486 said:


> @TwoSkies57...
> 
> and the plot thickens...



Indeed it does!!!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I don't think I've hit the "I LIKE" button more since Stick posted those pics of him nude fly fishing in the back yard........shheeshh.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I don't think I've hit the "I LIKE" button more since Stick posted those pics of him nude fly fishing in the back yard........shheeshh.


Now that is one picture I am glad I missed.......


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

morgantheship said:


> Now that is one picture I am glad I missed.......


it was kinda like seeing Sasquatch, Paul Bunyan and Ziggy Stardust all rolled into one. 

For a 16', two seater with a bit of rocker I might be willing to let a picture or two go...>


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

boy, ya know, some custom inlay work on each side of a boat like this would be.............................sit brain, SIT.....

whew that was close....


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

cocobolo1 said:


> It's actually finely ground wood cellulose Stick. Not quite the same thing as fine sawdust.


Thanks for clarifying this. I did not realize that it was cellulose. They call it wood flour so I thought that was what it was made of.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Just wanted to clarify something before posting today's progress. 

It really was my wife's suggestion to enlarge my shop. She wanted me to have a nice working space since I was spending so much time out there. 

And I already have my next two projects planned. After I finish my canoe I plan to make a kayak for my wife. Then I want to expand my skills some more so I plan on building a lap strake 14' sailboat. I have already selected the boat. It is called a Penobscot 14 designed by Arch Davis. He is one of the instructors at the Wooden Boat School that I have attended the last two years. 

So I give all the credit for the idea of enlarging my shop to my wife.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I made good progress on installing the outer wale on one side of the canoe. I first cut each end of the wale to fit properly around the stems. I also prepared all of the clamps that I might use prior to mixing the epoxy.

I then marked the location for each of the screws that I was going to put in once the wale was glued and clamped. I used a 6” spacing between screws. 

Mixed up a thick batch of epoxy and wood flour and applied it to the back side of the wale. Starting in the middle of the boat (where I previously marked the center of the wale to coincide with the center of the sheer) I used temporary spring clamps. Then went back along and placed C-Clamps every 6” (centered between the marks that I would eventually countersink holes for the screws). I then cleaned up any squeeze out of epoxy on both the top and bottom of the wale.

I kept the wale just a small fraction of an inch beneath the sheer line. This would enable me to then plane the tops to make them flat prior to installing the inner wale. 

Once C-Clamps were in place I then began drilling counter sunk holes for the screws and drove the screws in. 

I then spent time cleaning up all the epoxy that squeezed out after installing the screws. Once that was finished I went over everything a second time to make sure that I removed any excess epoxy. Much easier to clean up now verses when it is dry.

I will leave all of this clamped for 2 days before starting on the opposite side. 

Even though I had a good quantity of C-Clamps (Thanks to Harbor Freight), I did not have enough to do both sides of the canoe at the same time.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> ut ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. My spidey senses are tingling.....
> 
> no good can come of this I say, no goot at all.....................................................


Too funny :grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I don't think I've hit the "I LIKE" button more since Stick posted those pics of him nude fly fishing in the back yard........shheeshh.


that wasn't the ''back''yard...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> Thanks for clarifying this. I did not realize that it was cellulose. They call it wood flour so I thought that was what it was made of.


http://www.pjmurphy.net/index.php/wood-flour

Wood flour is defined as a finely-ground wood cellulose, often called "wood fiber". It is used in manufacturing a wide range of products ranging from exterior composite decking/railing to office furniture to caster wheels. The number of wood/plastic composite applications continues to grow significantly every day. Blending our wood flour with a mixture of plastic resins has resulted in the creation of durable, long-lasting composites that are less expensive and lighter in weight.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

This is really coming along, well, Russell. It won't be long before you are making and installing the seats. 

I'm on my second bowl of popcorn. It almost gone, so, I need to make a third. Hopefully, that will get me through the finals on the build. Anyway, it's keeping me glued to my seat.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> I don't think I've hit the "I LIKE" button more since Stick posted those pics of him nude fly fishing in the back yard........shheeshh.


Now you know why he takes the dog fishing with him. When he gets chilled he curls up with the dog to take the chill off.:no::no::no:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Now you know why he takes the dog fishing with him. When he gets chilled he curls up with the dog to take the chill off.:no::no::no:


actually it's the side yard....
and one slip and fall into an ice melt stream and you will be thankful you clothes are high and dry...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Yikes!,!,!,!,,,


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Yikes!,!,!,!,,,


can't even say that till ya thaw out...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Are you sure you didn't say that when you fall in and before everything goes numb?


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Before falling in, I believe I'd be a bit more animated


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Are you sure you didn't say that when you fall in and before everything goes numb?


too busy inhaling deeply...
once you hit that water breathing and brain function are hard to come by...
not only that it'll be about a week before some things come out of hiding and begin functioning again...
being vocal is is way down the list..

I know things like this..


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Before falling in, I believe I'd be a bit more animated


is a frantically dancing windmill in over drive what you have in mind???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fishing not so good..
bright sunlight...
crystal clear lazy water...

move on down stream....
in the stream...
water a little over the ankles..
been that way for some time..
came up to an easy waterfall about 6'' high..

didn't even give it a thought...
stepped right off...

keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeriist....
the water was 12' deep and if had been a degree colder it would have been solid...


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Even paradise requires a paid admission


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

sometimes rather steeply...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> fishing not so good..
> bright sunlight...
> crystal clear lazy water...
> 
> ...


Been there done that too but not this time of year. Water is still way too cold. The rivers run fast enough that every spring runoff changes all the deep holes. One that was only just over my waist one year was over my head the next year.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Interesting discourse ...... Things got deep really quickly

Just thought I would post a few pictures of the outer wale without the clamps. Took them off this morning and will begin working on the other outer wale on the other side of the boat. Since I don't know which is the bow or stern yet, I can't call it the starboard or port side. 

These are the last pictures for awhile as my wife and I are headed to the Wooden Boat Show at Mystic Seaport tomorrow. Looking forward to all the other wood boats as well as seeing the Charles Morgan whale ship once again.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Top shelf Russel, TOP SHELF!!!

As you applied the fiberglass and it set-up. Did you notice any stress on the form? Did the shape of the boat change any due to the application? 

Enjoy your time with the wife walking about the boat show. This time around, both you and her will be looking at things with a different set of eyes

and a new appreciation of the craft.. Have a great time


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Top shelf Russel, TOP SHELF!!!
> 
> As you applied the fiberglass and it set-up. Did you notice any stress on the form? Did the shape of the boat change any due to the application?
> 
> ...


No, no change in the form or the shape of the canoe.

Boat show has been marvelous. Met and talked to many other individual home boat builders as well as professional builders. Had some very good conversations from epoxy suppliers. 

We have spent 2 days at the show so far and have one more day to go. 

I would highly recommend the Wooden Boat Show at Mystic Seaport to anyone. A magical and wonderful place. I have been completely in my element.

Pictures will follow once we arrive back home mid week.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

looks like a great way to spend the weekend...

The WoodenBoat Show at Mystic Seaport


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

After returning from the Wooden Boat Show in Mystic Seaport I put the other outer wale on the canoe. While it was drying I was able to cut and fit the first inner wale.

Prior to gluing the inner wale in place I planed the top edge so that I had a good reference point to use to line up the inner wale. 

I then mixed up a batch of epoxy with wood flour and glued the first inner wale on. I tried to keep the top edge flush with the outer wale. 

The next day I was able to repeat the process for the other inner wale. First planning the outer wale to provide a flush surface for lining up the inner wale. 

I now had both outer and inner wales glued in place and ready to move onto the next step.

PS – The Wooden Boat Show was fabulous. My wife and I ended up going all three days and even got to try out some other canoes and kayaks. They had a good supply of boats that could be taken out on the river for no cost. What a great way to sell someone on a particular design of boat. We also found the book store and the used book sale quite inviting. And of course the Charles Morgan whale ship was majestic.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

With both the inner and outer wales in place I then began the process of leveling each gunnel to provide a flat surface where the decks would be glued and fiber glassed in place to. I have to install a support approximately 24” from the end of each stem and another support about 15” from that which then the steamed and bent shaped support will be installed to give a nice curved look to the deck edge. While using my belt sander along with a level to check that both sides remained flat, my belt sander seemed to give up the ghost. It is less than 30 days old but for some reason the sander runs but the belt doesn’t turn. It is a Porter Cable Model 371 Compact Belt Sander. I have contacted the company I purchased it from but this was sure a bad time for it to die. If someone has any suggestions as to trouble shooting, it would be appreciated.

I then rough cut the first deck to see what it would eventually look like. I have left the inboard side uncut as I first have to install the supports before cutting the curve.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Your boat looks more fabulous with each update, Russell. You'll be proudly showing it off at the next boat show and getting well deserved admiration.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Gaffboat said:


> Your boat looks more fabulous with each update, Russell. You'll be proudly showing it off at the next boat show and getting well deserved admiration.


Totally agree Oliver. This has been a great WIP and Russell should be commended for his time and efforts to show us his project.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Belt release level engaged??


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

The wales are the missing piece of the puzzle  Both up til now, and looking forward. At least to my eye. Any reason they do not mate up at the inside corners both front and back? Or should I say Fore and Aft? *S*. I like the idea of notching them to accommodate tying down gear etc.. Man, you got an investment in C-clamps don't ya. I like how you didn't skimp on using them. Not concerned about the wood flour compromising the adhering properties of the epoxy? 

The decks are just too cool!!! I think this is gonna be the stand-out feature on your build. What are the plans for them? You going to create a compartment or leave them open? How much additional weight do you think they will add to the canoe? It appears that you are planning on creating an arch on the inside edges? Need to find you a Rolls Royce hood ornament


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Russell, several years ago I was given a non-working belt sander.

When I opened it up, it was so clogged with sanding dust that it was no wonder it wouldn't work. That might be the trouble with yours. At least it's worth a look. 

As for your canoe...well, it's downright gorgeous!


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Belt release level engaged??


Yes, belt release lever in the correct position. I am waiting to hear from Max Tool who I purchased the sander from before doing anything to it as it has only been run for about 45 minutes. 

I had my vacuum hooked up to the dust port so I don't think it is dust that has clogged it up. 

I will have to be patient and wait until Tuesday as I am sure no one will be answering my emails until then.

Sort of mind boggling. Sucks as it was new and just out of the box.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> The wales are the missing piece of the puzzle  Both up til now, and looking forward. At least to my eye. Any reason they do not mate up at the inside corners both front and back? Or should I say Fore and Aft? *S*. I like the idea of notching them to accommodate tying down gear etc.. Man, you got an investment in C-clamps don't ya. I like how you didn't skimp on using them. Not concerned about the wood flour compromising the adhering properties of the epoxy?
> 
> The decks are just too cool!!! I think this is gonna be the stand-out feature on your build. What are the plans for them? You going to create a compartment or leave them open? How much additional weight do you think they will add to the canoe? It appears that you are planning on creating an arch on the inside edges? Need to find you a Rolls Royce hood ornament


Since the inner wales will be covered by the deck I did not spend the time to make them exact. I measured each one to make sure it would fit and then temporarily clamped them in place. I was more concerned where the scarf joint sat in relationship to the scarf joint on the outer wale. I did not want them to be lined up with one another. So that is why the wales were not exactly the same length.

The decks are a lot of fun and I am now seeing what the end result will eventually be. They will have supports and I am currently thinking of putting a nice trim piece on the curve to act as a splash guard. (hopefully I won’t be in that type of water where a splash guard is necessary). I will not be putting in any bulkheads as the space beneath the decks will be open. I have a dry bag that I usually bring with me when on the water to keep my phone and things from getting wet so the dry bag will easily be able to be stored beneath one of the decks. 

Weight wise the decks don’t seem to weight any more than 2 pounds. Once glued into place they will be fiber glassed and epoxied over. I have already put a coat of cloth and epoxy on the underside of each deck.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today’s progress is the most exciting to me as you can now see what the canoe will look like when completed. 

After great hesitation and careful sawing I cut into the inner wales to provide for the deck support pieces. I had to carefully cut out the notches making sure that I did not cut into the fiber glass. Once the first couple were cut I became a lot more confident and all of the cuts went well. I used a chisel to take out the wood between the cuts and then used a file to clean up the cuts. 

Then I measured and cut the various support pieces as the ends had two different angles that were required to fit snugly in the slots. You had the angle of the curve of the wale along with the angle of the curve of the hull. They were not perfect but the later ones ended up better than the first ones. 

As I fitted them in I then counter sunk a #8 x 1” screw into each joint.

I then dry fitted each deck and marked for cutting. I used a hand held saber saw with a fine tooth blade to cut. I left each edge a bit ‘proud’ so that once they were glued in place I could then sand the edges down to match the outside of the outer wales.
It was not until I had both decks dry fitted in place that I was finally able to make the determination of bow and stern. I wanted to see how the decks looked to make my final decision. Once I saw the design and how it looked it was an easy decision to make. The deck I selected for my bow is pictured in the last attached picture.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

And a few more pictures.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Brilliant, congratulations.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

whew...


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I'm getting excited about this project now and it's not even mine. We NEED a video of it's first launch, that is non-negotiable.

Great job there Russell.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

vindaloo said:


> I'm getting excited about this project now and it's not even mine. We NEED a video of it's first launch, that is non-negotiable.
> 
> Great job there Russell.


I'll second that motion. 

All those in favor?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

What a beautiful piece of work. I wonder how much it weighs? Looks like it would take two people to move it around.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> What a beautiful piece of work. I wonder how much it weighs? Looks like it would take two people to move it around.


I don't know the weight of Russell's fine boat Tom, but the 16 1/2' canoes I used to build ran around 55 lbs. One person can manage them.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

DesertRatTom said:


> What a beautiful piece of work. I wonder how much it weighs? Looks like it would take two people to move it around.


Currently it weights between 30 and 35 lbs. Maximum weight once a seat is installed will be around 35 lbs. It is amazingly light.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Nice job on the deck supports Russell, as well as the deck itself. Most excellent thus far. I can see why you favor leaving them open. Do you think that with them open, getting back into the canoe after falling out in 176 feet of water might be a bit difficult? 

Have ya decided on a design for the seat yet? A traditional weave or something with a little back support? I much prefer the former but as age often does, it would dictate the latter. 
At this point, it has become pretty clear that the most common phrase around the Russell household is gonna be: 

MY TURN


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

A lot of progress was made today. Since my sander went belly up I had my wife pick me up a Ryobi belt sander at Home Depot (she works there). It was only $50 and after using it to sand the tops of the wales flat to accept the deck pieces, I am of the opinion that it is a much better sander than the Porter Cable one that only lasted for 45 minutes. I have already sent the Porter Cable back and they are replacing it but after seeing the performance that I received from the Ryobi unit, I would just as well not have even purchased the Porter Cable unit. Just my opinion.

After finishing the sanding on the wales I vacuumed up all of the sawdust and then wiped the interior of the canoe down so that it was nice and clean. 

Then I mixed up a batch of epoxy and coated all of the underneath and sides of the deck supports as well as the underneath and sides of the wales that will be covered by the decks. I let that dry.

Organized all my clamps that I would need for clamping the decks in place. I only had enough clamps to do one deck at a time. 

I worked on the stern deck first. After mixing up a batch of epoxy with wood flour I spread the mixture on the tops of the wales and deck supports. I made sure that the mixture was thick and juicy. I wanted to make sure that I had good squeeze out on every surface. After spreading the epoxy I carefully placed the deck in place and began clamping every few inches. I also placed a container of clamps on the top of the deck to help weight down the deck to make good contact with the deck supports. 

I carefully checked that I had good squeeze out and wiped up some of the excess between each of the clamps.

I also glued some left over deck material to some left over wale material to provide me with a practice piece when it came to sanding the edges. In this way I will be able to practice sand an edge prior to actually sanding on the edge of the canoe.

Tomorrow I plan to repeat the process and epoxy the bow deck in place.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Did a repeat of the day before and epoxied the bow deck in place.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I decided to sand the edges of the decks to line up with the outer wales. All went well and I was able to sand all the outside edges as well as rounding over the edges so that there would be no ‘sharp’ edges on the boat.

The one disappointing thing that I did was when I used my saber saw to cut the deck edge flush with the deck support and found that it splintered the edge of the stern deck. I then taped the edge of the bow deck hoping that would eliminate the splintering. It did help but I still got some splintering that occurred. I will now have to fill those areas with epoxy and wood flour. Last Picture. Disappointing but I learned something from the experience.

Tomorrow I will begin the filling process in preparation for putting a fiber glass covering and epoxy over each of the decks.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

The Bow and the Stern.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

morgantheship said:


> Today I decided to sand the edges of the decks to line up with the outer wales. All went well and I was able to sand all the outside edges as well as rounding over the edges so that there would be no ‘sharp’ edges on the boat.
> 
> The one disappointing thing that I did was when I used my saber saw to cut the deck edge flush with the deck support and found that it splintered the edge of the stern deck. I then taped the edge of the bow deck hoping that would eliminate the splintering. It did help but I still got some splintering that occurred. I will now have to fill those areas with epoxy and wood flour. Last Picture. Disappointing but I learned something from the experience.
> 
> Tomorrow I will begin the filling process in preparation for putting a fiber glass covering and epoxy over each of the decks.


For the next build, you may want to consider a blade for your saber saw that cuts on the down stroke - we used for making sink cutouts so that the laminate wouldn't chip around the edge, it would probably work the same way for your cedar.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

tomp913 said:


> For the next build, you may want to consider a blade for your saber saw that cuts on the down stroke - we used for making sink cutouts so that the laminate wouldn't chip around the edge, it would probably work the same way for your cedar.


That's a great idea and suggestion. I didn't realize there was such a blade for saber saws. Thanks. I will look into that tomorrow while at Menards (Big Box Store similar to Home Depot).


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

morgantheship said:


> The one disappointing thing that I did was when I used my saber saw to cut the deck edge flush with the deck support and found that it splintered the edge of the stern deck.


mortise out the splinterd and fill it w/ an accent strip of dark hard wood ...
looks good and will take abuse better...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow that's simply a work of art . Can't get over the hours it would take to build such a thing


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> mortise out the splinterd and fill it w/ an accent strip of dark hard wood ...
> looks good and will take abuse better...


I had the thought that a strip applied on the top would both cover the damaged area and serve to deflect any water that came over the bow, directing it to the side and off there rather than having it drip off the edge and into the canoe.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

I was planning to begin filling the cracks and spaces on the decks today but I decided to first make some splash guards to go on the deck edges. I had wanted to use mahogany but could not find any at Home Depot, Menards or Fleet Farm, so I ended up cutting some white ash. I had a bunch of white ash on hand but I had to plane it down to about ¼” thickness and then I ripped the strips to about 1 ½” inches in height.

But before fitting them in place I found that the form that I originally used to steam them and bend them on was missing so I had to cut another form, and drill holes for the clamps. Once ready I clamped the form in my vice and began steaming the white ash pieces in my home built steamer. (An electric tea kettle and a capped piece of PVC pipe.) It works great. 

Steamed the pieces for about 15 minutes and then clamped them in place on the form. I will let them sit until tomorrow before removing them and do the final fitting. I plan to attach them with epoxy and counter sunk screws. Once those are in place I plan to steam bend some small trim pieces to cover the splintering that took place on the edge of the decks.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Russell,,, if you want some mahogany to do that splash guard the way you want let me know, I'll hook ya up....


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Russell,,, if you want some mahogany to do that splash guard the way you want let me know, I'll hook ya up....


Bill - Thanks for the offer. After looking at what the white ash looked like when placed on the canoe I decided that I really wanted the mahogany. I found some at a different Menards store and went out this morning and picked some up. I then ripped it, planed it, cut it to length, put it in my steam tube, and clamped to my form. I will let it sit until tomorrow before removing it and fitting it to the canoe.

I found that I was becoming impatient and wanted to keep forward progress going, but then when I 'settled' for white ash instead of the mahogany, that I really wanted in the first place, I realized that I need to slow down and not compromise on details. 

I know that I am going to be much happier with the mahogany and the contrast that it will provide when these splash guards are finished. 

A lesson learned.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Very good Russell..... going with what you initially had in mind seems to me to be right thing to do. Eliminate the "I wish I woulda's". The decks are just too cool. What a marvelous look they provide to the canoe. Have you ever seen a deck extend over the sides a bit to reduce splashing? I wonder if something like that would be practical. You have got to be chaffing at the bit about now


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Well a few things got accomplished today. The temperature here in Wisconsin got up to 88 today with high humidity, so working outside was not a lot of fun. Thankfully there was a slight breeze to keep some air flow.

The first thing was the mahogany splash guard for the bow. Got it fitted and sanded and ready for installation.

The second thing was the attempt to also make a splash guard for the stern out of mahogany. I tried two different times and finally decided that I would use the white ash for the stern. Reason being is the mahogany strip kept breaking due to the severity of the curve. Where the white ash seemed to bend a bit easier and not break. Even with steaming the mahogany strip, it would just not bend without breaking. So I will now have a mahogany splash guard in the bow and a white ash one in the stern. 

The final thing I worked on today was the back rest. I have decided to go with an Adirondack look. It’s a simple design and removable. I used a 1 ¼” oak dowel and I made 4 oak back slats. I clamped the dowel on the bench and used my belt sander to carve out a flat spot for the slats to be mounted to. I also made a thin support piece that will be joined to the mid-section of the slats to give it some stability and strength. Then I made two 3” x 3” oak block which I used a Forstner bit to make the correct size holes. I only drilled into the block ½” so that the dowel when inserted in the blocks would rotate within the blocks. On one side of the canoe the dowel will be inserted into the wood block and the opposite side of the canoe, the wood block is designed so that the dowel will slip into place. The wood blocks will be epoxied directly beneath the inner wale of the gunnel at a still to be determined position. 

As for a seat, I am undecided if I will make a seat or use a boat cushion to start out and see how that works. I want to keep everything simple and easy to use. 

Enough for today. In addition to the heat today, my contractor has begun tearing up the old concrete outside my shop to prepare for the new concrete that will soon become the extension to my workshop.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Here is a picture of the assembled back rest. Oak dowel and oak slats. I have it resting on the top of the gunnels but once I install the wood blocks it will be located beneath the gunnels. Once the blocks are installed I will be able to cut the dowel to the correct length. Final finishing is still required.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

I can hardly imagine the pride and satisfaction you're going to feel when you're cruising down the river in that beauty, Russell.

What sort of screws did you use for the seat back? Ferrous metal fasteners + oak + water can lead to black staining.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

AndyL said:


> I can hardly imagine the pride and satisfaction you're going to feel when you're cruising down the river in that beauty, Russell.
> 
> What sort of screws did you use for the seat back? Ferrous metal fasteners + oak + water can lead to black staining.


I used solid brass screws. #8 x 3/4" to attach the slats and #8 x 1/2" to attach the support strip to the back of the slats.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

It was an epoxy with wood flour morning. 

After sanding a curve in the backs of the blocks for the back rest (curve follows the curve of the hull), I mixed up a very thick epoxy/wood flour batch and put a thick coating on the back of each block. Once in place I clamped each block with moderate force and cleaned up the squeeze out of epoxy.

Next was to epoxy each of the splash guards and install them in place. Again I used a thick mixture of epoxy and wood flour (same batch used for the blocks), and clamped each of the splash guards in place. Once dry I will finish sand and add brass screws to secure each guard permanently. As I indicated earlier I used mahogany for the bow splash guard and white ash for the stern guard.

With some extra epoxy and wood flour remaining I filled some of the small spaces on each of the decks. I will now wait a good 24 hours before removing any clamps and beginning the sanding process.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today - First sanding on the decks. Then second filling of small spaces with thickened epoxy and wood flour. 

Splash guards came out okay. I was thinking of using brass screws to hold them on but after looking at them I believe that the epoxy will hold them in place. I still have to put another trim piece on the front edge of the splash guards but I need to steam bend the pieces prior to attaching them with epoxy. 

Lastly I put the bungs in the holes that were in the outer wales on the gunnels. 

Tomorrow I am looking to do final sanding and then fiber glass the top of the decks.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Mistakes are always difficult to admit but I look at mistakes as an opportunity to be creative. 

So I bring my wife out to show her the back rest blocks that I have epoxied to the inside of the hull and the first thing she notices is that they seem to be too far to the stern. We talked about it for a few minutes and I realized that the video indicated that the blocks should be 2” aft of the form that is located 12” from the center of the canoe. I only watched and listened to the video about 6 or 7 times but for some reason I used the form line that was 24” from the center of the canoe instead of 12” from the center of the canoe. So basically the back rest will be mounted too far back and if paddling from this position the bow of the canoe would be lifted out of the water. 

Now the video did add the notation that if you were to have a second person in the canoe with you that you could add another set of blocks further to the stern so that the weight in the canoe would be balanced properly and would still paddle well.

So with that knowledge in hand, I decided to be creative and place another set of blocks where they were supposed to be in the first place. So I now have two positions that I can place the back rest depending upon how many people are in the canoe.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

If some of you recall back a few steps when I trimmed the deck edge to the deck supports and the saber saw splintered the edge of the decks. Some of you offered good suggestions but I wanted to think on it some.

I wasn’t sure how I was going to address this and some of you offered good suggestions but I wanted to think on it some. So I put it aside for a bit and continued on other work that had to be finished. 

After I installed the splash guards I had the thought of putting some trim pieces on the edges that would basically cover up the splintered edges. I tried to steam bend additional small wood strips but they continued to break as it seemed that the curve was too great. I tried both white ash and mahogany without success.

So then I got to thinking about something I learned when I took a scratch model building class at Wooden Boat School a few years back. We soaked the wood strips in ammonia for a day which then allowed us to easily bend them in the shape of the frames for our models. 

So I used the PVC pipe that I used for steam bending and filled it full of ammonia and inserted the pre-cut trim pieces. I let them soak in the ammonia for about 36 hours and this morning I removed them from the tube and easily bent them in place in front of the splash guards. I used some plastic sheets to protect the splash guard and deck edge and will let them dry in place. Notice that I had some additional strips that I clamped in place to shape them to the curve of the splash guard. I don’t plan on using all of them but should I break one, I will at least have a backup.

Once dry, which should take at least a day, I will sand them and cut them to length and then epoxy them in place.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Ammonia, that's a neat trick. Just regular household ammonia?


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

AndyL said:


> Ammonia, that's a neat trick. Just regular household ammonia?


Yes, just regular household ammonia. For small short lengths it seems to work well after being soaked 24 hours or more.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Today I was able to epoxy the trim strips on the fronts of both of the splash guards. On the bow splash guard I am using two strips of mahogany. On the stern splash guard I am using one piece of white ash and one piece of mahogany. 

For those of you that had an interest, I did use just standard household ammonia from the grocery store. I did find that the ammonia effects some wood differently than others. On white ash it darkened the wood somewhat. On mahogany there did not seem to be any discoloration. I know that when we were building models and using ammonia we used poplar and the poplar actually turned green. But since we were using it for frames it did not matter as to the color. Always need to work in a well ventilated area when using ammonia. 

Once these trim strips dry I will be sanding and then putting the fiber glass and epoxy on the decks.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

@morgantheship

Looks like launch day is getting close! One of the bad things about building a boat is that it is such a long term project with so many invested hours of labor and thought, you end of feeling kind of aimless when it's finished. I have really enjoyed watching your project from afar and it has reminded me a sailboat I built years ago. You know we all will want to see the launch day photos when it happens. :yes4:


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Gaffboat said:


> @morgantheship
> 
> Looks like launch day is getting close! One of the bad things about building a boat is that it is such a long term project with so many invested hours of labor and thought, you end of feeling kind of aimless when it's finished. I have really enjoyed watching your project from afar and it has reminded me a sailboat I built years ago. You know we all will want to see the launch day photos when it happens. :yes4:


How true Oliver. I recall after having finished my rocker build, everything felt so anti-climatic...........at least or a little while ;0


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Last night I prepared everything so that it was ready first thing in the morning. Our temperatures have been in the lower to mid 90’s and the shop is just too warm to work in it once mid-morning arrives. 

I cut the fiber glass cloth for each of the decks. My plan was to have a small amount wrap around the edges of each deck for structural integrity.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

This morning I got up early to take advantage of the cooler temperatures. I actually left the garage door open part of last night to help get some cooler air in there. It was a pleasant 72 degrees this morning in the shop when I began the process of applying epoxy to the cloth on each of the decks. It went fairly smoothly except for the part of wanting some of the fiber glass cloth to wrap around the edge. It just would not bond well so when dry I will cut off the excess cloth and sand to blend with the deck edge. Once I apply the filler coats no one will be able to see if there is cloth or no cloth.

I used the extra epoxy to coat the gunnels both inside and out as well as the splash guards. 

I was truly amazed at how nice the decks are going to look when complete. You can also see the splash guards for both the bow and stern.


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

You sure you gonna want to put that in the water and not just look at and admire it there?

Piece of art you got there.


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

After removing the excess fiber glass cloth from the edges of the deck I sanded the deck along with the edges. The deck now has a nice rounded edge to it. No sharp corners. 

Then I applied the first filler coat of epoxy to the decks. One more coat after this and then coat all of the gunnels and I will be ready to prepare the inside for the first coat of varnish. I plan to put at least two coats of varnish on the inside of the boat including the decks and then flip it over and apply at least two coats of varnish on the bottom.

No launch day set yet but it is getting closer to thinking about it.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Looks fantastic.


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## Bodger96 (Mar 18, 2014)

She is a Beauty!

Regards Bob


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Canoe Update – 

Some delays are on the horizon with the canoe since the contractor has begun the workshop expansion. Currently they are preparing the area that they will be pouring a 26’ x 32’ cement pad. The current plan is for them to finish the forms and pour the concrete on Monday or Tuesday of next week. Then one week after the concrete is poured they will tear down the existing shop wall and begin the expansion. It will take the contractor another two to three weeks to finish the expansion.

Final coat of epoxy was put on the decks. Now to let dry for a few days prior to preparing for the first coat of varnish. 

Splash guards turned out looking pretty good. The strips of mahogany sure did cover my splintered decks. 

Sanded and fit the back rest into the mounting blocks. I will varnish the back rest at the same time I varnish the canoe.

Next step is to lightly sand the inside of the canoe as well as the decks and gunnels with 220 grit sandpaper, wipe down with a damp cloth, and then, when dry, use a tack cloth prior to applying the first coat of varnish. 2 to 3 coats of varnish is in the plan. 

Of course, forward progress will be somewhat dependent upon the contractor and interruptions to the shop being usable. I am somewhat fearful that I might have to wait to complete the varnishing to after the expansion is complete.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A sizable addition to the shop AND a great build coming together all at the same time....geesh Russell, it's gonna take a grinder to get that smile off of your face 

Splash guard turned out to be not only functional but also a very nice esthetic addition to the build. 

Down to the short hairs....


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## morgantheship (Oct 19, 2014)

Canoe Update – Across the finish line	

Today we baptized the canoe for the very first time. My wife and I took the canoe over to our neighbor’s pond and got to enjoy the project that I have been working on since the beginning of February. Basically a six month project which included many wait days due to cold weather. But the canoe is finished. I found that it tracked well and was stable in the water. I also found that I need to add some water rings on the paddle to keep the water from running down the paddle and depositing itself in the boat during paddling. That will be a simple fix. 

I really want to take a moment and thank every one of you that have followed me in this fun project. I appreciated the input as well as the compliments. I could not have found a better group of people to share my building experience with. Thank you.

Some of the things I learned and hopefully will apply to any future cedar strip canoe/kayak project include the following:

•	Take more time when stripping the canoe to insure that all of the strips are nested tightly against the adjoining strip. This would eliminate some of the filling of cracks during the epoxy stage.

•	Use a little less glue and be more mindful of wiping up as much glue as possible prior to drying to make the sanding process go easier.

•	Spend additional time sanding the hull. This would provide a more mirror like finish. Not that the finish is bad but I believe that with taking the time to sand to a finer grit that the finish would improve.

•	Become better at applying epoxy and fiber glass, especially the filler coats. 

•	Add a handle on the bow and stern to help in carrying the canoe to and from the water. If I had thought of it prior to putting the decks on I could have added some hardwood supports to attach the handles to. 

•	Add a couple of more coats of varnish. Two coats certainly is nice but I think that I will add some additional coats as it will provide additional scratch and UV protection.

•	Add a brass rub strip along the length of the stems. I found that even bringing the canoe up on a sand shore ended up abrading the varnish and epoxy some.

And the most important thing I have learned is to be patient and enjoy the journey.

Now to concentrate on the shop expansion. The contractor has poured the new concrete pad along with some additional area for storage. On Monday they will begin taking out the wall and expand the shop. Once they are complete I will have a project of wiring, insulating, dry walling and painting and setting up the layout of the new shop. 

After the shop project I do have plans for building another boat. I have selected a small sailboat with lap strake construction. This will definitely expand my horizons and challenge me with learning new skills. The boat I have chosen is a Penobscot 14 that was designed by Arch Davis. His web site is 

Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Kits and Boat Designs - Arch Davis Design This will most likely be a yearlong project. 

I will still be hanging around the forum asking questions and hopefully being of assistance to others when I can. For a bit I will be somewhat consumed with my shop expansion but will be checking in from time to time. I have really enjoyed this adventure and as I mentioned earlier, thank you all. If any of you are in the Wisconsin area you are welcome to stop by and take my canoe for a paddle.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hurray!!!


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Where da video???

That looks great, awesome, fantastic, wonderful...... take yer pick Russell. Hope you have many great times with it. Now you got to build your SO one of her own


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*I Love It When A Plan Comes Together!*

Great journey, Russell, thanks for letting us share in the process.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Great journey, Russell, thanks for letting us share in the process.


yup...
and do we start saying ''Ahoy matey""" all the time now..


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

Congratulations, Russell. Thanks for sharing the build story and showing the beautiful result.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

What a gorgous canoe. I loved watching the process, thanks for taking the time to take pictures and describe the steps. I like the little sailboat and really look forward to watching it come to pass.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

morgantheship said:


> After the shop project I do have plans for building another boat. I have selected a small sailboat with lap strake construction. This will definitely expand my horizons and challenge me with learning new skills. The boat I have chosen is a Penobscot 14 that was designed by Arch Davis. His web site is
> 
> Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Kits and Boat Designs - Arch Davis Design This will most likely be a yearlong project.


As you can tell from my screen name, I do love gaff rigged sailboats. They are what sail boats should look like, :wink:


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Simply outstanding Russell. A build to be proud of, lessons well learned and a wonderfully well documented how-to! You done yourself right by this one!!!

A tip of the hat to ya sir! 
Well done!

Bill


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks for taking us with you on your journey. We are envious of the beauty and craftsmanship of your accomplishment. All of the pictures along the way have been totally outstanding.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

It's been a terrific WIP Russell and a credit to you. Thanks for taking a significant amount of time and effort to document the journey for us. Of course as you have now set a precedent for yourself we will all be eagerly awaiting the next build.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Great build with a fantastic finish. In a previous lifetime, I toyed with the idea of strip building a boat, gave it up as something I would never finish. Your poastings proved that. This is one for saving and reading again just to pick up new ideas missed the first time. Bravo Zulu.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

It looks great on the water, so elegant. And no sooner is it finished than you're planning the next one, I guess you're a boat-building addict now Russell


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## bwilling (Jul 14, 2015)

Great build :smile: Russel good luck on your garage build and your next water craft project. 

I think I would have added two things to your current boat. I would have extended the splash rails on the decks to go out as far as the gunwales. The second would have been water tight compartments under the decks as flotation devices just for security. :smile:


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