# Wall Shelf w/ Sliding Dovetails



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Finally finished this shelf unit...!!

Did it primarily to make Sliding Dovetails... 

I designed this Wall Shelf to use them!!

All wood is from scrap... found from trash day treasures found in neighborhood. 

I cut a chunk out of a discarded headboard, that eventually appeared to be Poplar.

It had a slight bow to it... had to flatten it... don't have a thickness planer... quickly made a simple jig to use the router to flatten it... worked like a charm... *except for a couple of Operator goofs... DO NOT TILT THE ROUTER FORWARD OR BACKWARD WHILE FLATTENING!...* slowed me up a few weeks... finally decided to use the Whiteside Inlay kit and Inlayed Bowties to cover the two gouges caused by tilting the router, while flattening.

I started finishing with two coats of Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil... followed with a top coat of Arm-R-Seal... four coats!


































































































































































Other Albums:
http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=1389


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Nice Joe

May I offer a tip for the next time you make a Wall Shelf ,,, Hide the joint, that's to say make a silding Blind dovetail joint, it that way you will not see the joint at all and when you put it in both parts ,the shelf and the back board the dovetail will lock the parts up as one..plus it's very strong joint for a wall shelf....(inter locking type)

If you would like to see one just ask and I will post a snapshot of one...

Bj


----------



## oldnewbie (Sep 18, 2006)

Nice job, Joe. What did you finish it with, after the Watco Oil, or is that the way the oil finishes? Looks great.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Nice Joe
> 
> May I offer a tip for the next time you make a Wall Shelf ,,, Hide the joint, that's to say make a silding Blind dovetail joint, it that way you will not see the joint at all and when you put it in both parts ,the shelf and the back board the dovetail will lock the parts up as one..plus it's very strong joint for a wall shelf....(inter locking type)
> 
> ...



Bob,

Thank you.

After I cut the sliding DTs, I thought of doing exactly what you mentioned... After more thought, I'm glad I did it this way... *To actually show the Dovetail Joint*... That's one of the reasons I made it this way... And, yes the back & top slide on and lock the whole thing together... I used screws to make it more solid... NO Glue was used anywhere except for the Inlays.


----------



## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Nice job Joe and a great save with the bowties. This inlay stuff has me all fired up and you are not helping matters  

What do you have planned to put on that nice shelf?


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

oldnewbie said:


> Nice job, Joe. What did you finish it with, after the Watco Oil, or is that the way the oil finishes? Looks great.


Thank you...

I stained / oiled with Watco Dark Walnut Danish Oil (2 coats)...
Topped it off with 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal wipe-on.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Bob N said:


> Nice job Joe and a great save with the bowties. This inlay stuff has me all fired up and you are not helping matters
> 
> What do you have planned to put on that nice shelf?


Hi BobN

I've had that Inlay Kit in a drawer for months... I figured it was about time to try it... It worked great except a minor flaw... my Pattern Masonite was about 1/64"-1/32" too thin... Try it... you will like it...!!

*What do you have planned to put on that nice shelf?*
That's NOT my decision... Thank God!  

Thank you...


----------



## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Looks good Joe. Nice sliding DT's and a good repair job. When you said that it was Watco Oil I thought man I never seen a finish like that from Watco  Now I see you used the GF Seal a Cell. Good stuff and a nice finish!

Corey


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Looks good Joe



One more Small tip,,, when putting in the dovetail blind slot or the other this is when the plunge router comes into play with a fence or some clamp boards and then the pins can be made on the router table quick and easy..

As you know blind dovetails must come it from the same side of the board,that's why the plunge router works best for this type of job...
Plus the blind dovetails are a real challenge to get them in right place,always over cut the top and the back, then you can line up the parts and then trim the top and the back boards to match.. 

Still looks OK   

Bj 



Joe Lyddon said:


> Bob,
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> After I cut the sliding DTs, I thought of doing exactly what you mentioned... After more thought, I'm glad I did it this way... *To actually show the Dovetail Joint*... That's one of the reasons I made it this way... And, yes the back & top slide on and lock the whole thing together... I used screws to make it more solid... NO Glue was used anywhere except for the Inlays.


----------



## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Great job Joe, I like the finish. My wife is not into dark finishes, but I like it.
If you would allow me one comment, I would have put a matching patch on the right side. No one would ever know that you made the mistake, but a great shelf anyway.

Rolf


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

rmaxa said:


> Great job Joe, I like the finish. My wife is not into dark finishes, but I like it.
> If you would allow me one comment, I would have put a matching patch on the right side. No one would ever know that you made the mistake, but a great shelf anyway.
> 
> Rolf


Hi Rolf...

  ... I thought of doing that... I just didn't want to mess with cutting Inlay parts, etc.

When I was all done with it, my wife said... 
"Y'know Joe, you could have kept those things symetrical to hide the error."

I told her... 
"Now, you tell me... I thought of doing that but changed my mind."

I've recently started thinking about just Painting some on!!  

It did turn out to be darker than I thought it would.


----------



## Rolf Maxa (Feb 8, 2005)

Joe, paint would work as well.

Rolf


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

rmaxa said:


> Joe, paint would work as well.
> 
> Rolf



Yes...

I could take it all apart & cut them out, etc... but, I really don't feel like doing that. 

Paint, like acrylic, no problem... Later down the road...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> ... *To actually show the Dovetail Joint*... That's one of the reasons I made it this way...


I figured it was a conscious decision -- 
Have to say - *I agree*. 
I think its a *very nice* design element.
But - that is totally subjective - 

I would ditto the suggestion about adding a couple more inlays for balance.
But that's easy for us to say -- _after the fact_ 
I think the idea of using the bowties to start with -- was being very creative.

I remember very little from high school shop --
but one thing we were told when we were doing leather craft has always stuck with me for some reason.

*If you make a mistake -- don't worry --- just make it again - and call it a pattern.*


----------



## BC Wood Worx (Jul 19, 2007)

Very nicely done!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

"If you make a mistake -- don't worry --- just make it again - and call it a pattern."

Cowboy, that's exactly what I mean when I say "turn errors into features"!


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Joe, it's nice to see a full photo-shoot from you, it's the final appearance that counts. One thing that puzzles me is that it appears that you were planing ACROSS the grain, this is unusual. With skis Joe, even if they were just cobbled from 2"x1", there would be no chance of the router tilting, just a thought, may be one day you might just give it a try like others have and be surprised by how easy and pleasurable an experience it is.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Joe, it's nice to see a full photo-shoot from you, it's the final appearance that counts. One thing that puzzles me is that it appears that you were planing ACROSS the grain, this is unusual. With skis Joe, even if they were just cobbled from 2"x1", there would be no chance of the router tilting, just a thought, may be one day you might just give it a try like others have and be surprised by how easy and pleasurable an experience it is.


Harry,

When I noticed the 'bow' in the board, which was very unexpected, the closest thing to Skis was a jig I had seen before... So, I quickly got some Ash 1x2's about 3/4, played with them orienting them until I figured out how to make it work with the router I had... screwed them together... clamped the board and the jig into place and went at it. Grain was *NOT* in my mind.

As it turned out, the routed surface was *VERY* smooth. Very little sanding was needed to get it finished.

For flattening a board, I would do it the same way... primarily, because I already have the jig made, know how to use it, and am happy with the results. And KNOW NOT to tilt the router forward or backward while routing... KEEP IT FLAT ON THE RUNNERS... and lift straight UP when done.

Grain? Routing ACROSS the grain... Think about it... the router bit is going around in a circle... *It's cutting 50% against the grain ALL THE TIME *regardless which way the router is going... I didn't think about that until right now...

Thank you for your comments...


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Believe me Joe (would I lie to you?) routing across the grain does not give the same result as going to and froe with the grain.


----------



## Doyle (Mar 20, 2007)

Hi Joe, Doyle here.
Fantastic job and looks great on the wall.
Wish I could find scrap wood - hard to find around here. The last time I bent over to retrieve an object from a trash can, I lost my balance and fell in. Then the can fell over depositing myself unceremoniously upside down on the ground with a deep cut to my head. Had to go for stitches. When the doctor asked how it happened I could only reply - I fell out of a trash can. No more trash can diving for me.
Take care
Doyle


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Doyle,

Very funny!

This kind of trash doesn't fit into a trash can... they just prop it up by the curb... chances are, someone other than the trash company will take it first!


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> ... So, I quickly got some Ash 1x2's about 3/4, played with them orienting them until I figured out how to make it work with the router I had... screwed them together... clamped the board and the jig into place and went at it. . . .
> 
> For flattening a board, I would do it the same way... primarily, because I already have the jig made, know how to use it, and am happy with the results.
> ...
> ...


NOT wanting to stir the pot  
But I have to go with Joe on this one.
I thought the mantra here was -- "Keep it Simple" ?
Now I think the concept of skis is cool -
- I will probably make me some eventually to play with.

BUT -- if I am in the middle of a project and discover an issue like this and just need to get the board ready -
There is *NO WAY* you are gonna convince me that:

 Finding metal rods the right size to fit my router base 
 cutting and boring a mounting frame to hold them
 Finding the assorted nuts and washers to hold it all together
 mounting my router on the rods
 assembling the rig
is *SIMPLER* -- than 

 cut 1x's to length
 tack them down
As for the grain issue ----
I know there is a different FEEL to moving the router across the grain than with it. And I know that there is the issue or tear out when you are cutting cross-grain dados or edging end grain.
BUT -- Joe has a point about the circular cutting --
So the question is - when you are going over the entire board -- do you get a smoother surface moving the router with the grain - across the grain -- or at random ----
hmm ---- you have me curious
Have to look into that one.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> NOT wanting to stir the pot
> But I have to go with Joe on this one.
> I thought the mantra here was -- *"Keep it Simple" *?
> Now I think the concept of skis is cool -
> ...


Now that I think back to the way I did it...

I went North/South (cross grain) much of the time...

BUT, I also went East/West (with grain) a lot of the time...

I think I *started off East/West (with the grain and smaller distance) back n forth, *then pulled it closer to me (South) a small distance, then going East/West to get it cleared nicely.

After going through it that way, I just went all over it randomly, lifting router to see [at times Tilting it by mistake!  ], then continuing til done... before going on to another section.

I CAN tell you that the board was VERY SMOOTH and I liked it very much... I was surprised how well it came out!

Skiis is more dependent on the table top being flat... 

My way depends more on the 1x2's being good, straight, and strong.

I would do it the same way again... 

I will do it the same way...

Thank you...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

How this for SIMPLER , get the hardware for about 6.oo bucks make the ski jig in about hour or two, put it to one side on the wall with the other jigs,that you now have then when you run into a error in the stock just grab the jig off the wall and side in into your router in about 1 min.or two, do the job then remove the ski jig and put it back on the wall or if you have a extra router about just set it up with the ski jig then you are set to do just about anything you need to do by just putting in a bit in the router..  just like your router table....when was the last time you realy put the plunge router to work other in the router table...

I said I was going to push this jig because it's one of the great ones ,it can do so many router jobs ,it's hard to tell you of all the things it can do and do them very well , the setup is quick and it's very simple  it's hard to make fire wood with this jig setup...unless you have a ID-Ten-T Error running your router. 


http://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/5312-harrysin.html
http://www.routerforums.com/guide-bushings-templates/5384-harry-tom-bobj-others.html



Bj 










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID-Ten-T_Error

===============




Drugstore Cowboy said:


> NOT wanting to stir the pot
> But I have to go with Joe on this one.
> I thought the mantra here was -- "Keep it Simple" ?
> Now I think the concept of skis is cool -
> ...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> How this for SIMPLER , get the hardware for about 6.oo bucks make the ski jig in about hour or two,
> ...when was the last time you realy put the plunge router to work other in the router table...


Guess I stirred the pot after all -- sure didn't mean to. 
I wasn't criticizing the ski concept -- 
And yes -- *if* you already have one made and in place and 
and *if* you are used to using it -- I can certainly see it having some good points.

I was referring specifically to Joe's situation.
If you take the hour or two it would take to go to the hardware store and add it to the hour or two spent assembling the jig -- That's 2-4 hours 
(lets call it 3). I'm willing to bet cutting 1x's that he already had on hand to length and tacking them down took -- 30 minutes -- an hour TOPS.
Joe - correct me if I'm wrong.
In Joe's case - that left him 2 free hours minimum.

Nope -- I still say in this case -- HIS way was simpler.

As far as using a plunge router off of the router table.
That's getting a little off-topic -- but since you asked --
I don't own a plunge router - just a little 1.5hp fixed-base Ryobi.
It wouldn't fit my old table (metal) - and I still havent gotten around to finishing my new one. 
SO -- everything I have done since Christmas - including the settle table and chest of drawers posted on here -- were done with the router hand-held.
I made a 'kittycondo' about a week ago that required some rounding over -- so -- I guess to answer your question --- the last time I used a router hand held was about 8 days ago.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

I agree with you to a point BUT it's like having more than one hammer,,,,,
The right tool for the right job thing,,, you can drive a tack in with a 1 lb. claw hammer but why not use the small tack hammer for the job... but you need to have one in your tool box..  you can use the 1 lb. hammer but it will look like you did.

Bj


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> I agree with you to a point BUT it's like having more than one hammer,,,,, you can use the 1 lb. hammer but it will look like you did.
> 
> Bj


I would never disagree with the idea that its good to be familiar with a lot of different tools and procedures.:sold: 

ALL - I said was --
Starting from square 1 -- a board that needs leveling -- a router and some scrap lumber.
I could make a simple wood jig that let me get that job done JUST AS WELL - and be well near done by the time you got back from the hardware store and started assembling your jig.
And I stand by that til someone proves me wrong.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

OK Cowboy hahahahahahahahahaha LOL LOL

BUt you don't get it , I would walk over to the wall ,about 10ft, where I hang my jigs and just pull jig down ,do the job and I'm done 

About the same thing as a table saw, a tool I have in the shop and when I need it I just go over to it ,set it up and do the job and then turn it off...a jig is no more than just a tool...that I have in the shop...


Bj 




Drugstore Cowboy said:


> I would never disagree with the idea that its good to be familiar with a lot of different tools and procedures.:sold:
> 
> ALL - I said was --
> Starting from square 1 -- a board that needs leveling -- a router and some scrap lumber.
> ...


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> BUT -- if I am in the middle of a project and discover an issue like this and just need to get the board ready -
> There is *NO WAY* you are gonna convince me that:
> 
> Finding metal rods the right size to fit my router base
> ...


The jig maybe took 10-15 mins. to make... (or less)

Using it didn't take very long either...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> OK Cowboy hahahahahahahahahaha LOL LOL
> 
> BUt you don't get it , I would walk over to the wall ,about 10ft, where I hang my jigs and just pull jig down ,do the job and I'm done
> 
> ...


*Yes -- I do get it --*
and I am beginning to realize --
--* I* -- *didn't* stir the pot -- 

*You* just *want* me to come across like I am being critical -- so we can keep this debate going and you can keep getting plugs in -- 
Either that or you arent reading what I am saying ---
My bet is on the first -  


*I have said NOTHING against your method-*
I have, in fact said *NOTHING about the relative merits of the procedures* - not going to -- Your way works for you - Joe's way works for him - to me that makes *both ways good*.

Far from arguing with you *I have agreed with you over and over* --
I think the concept behind skis is cool -- and --
*IF* you *already have* them built and handy -- 
Then *yes* your system would be as just as easy - possibly easier - than a simple wooden frame.
*BUT --* 
*That is NOT the scenario Joe presented* and *not* the one I was commenting on.
What I said was -- 
If you start with *NEITHER* jig available -- *as Joe did* --
Then his way was clearly simpler.
All else aside - the fact that it didn't require a trip to the store --.

So -- please -- PEACE brother  
Lets give Joe his thread back --


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Bj, the likes of you and me are always on the lookout for new things, not just in tools but everything, when digital radio starts in Australia I'll be one of the first to buy a receiver, you probably already have one, but let's face it Bj, some people are quite happy to still use the crystal set passed down by their grandfather, seeing no reason to try new technology. Just like you eventually decided to give some of Tom's ideas a try, with surprising results, so may some of the other diehards one day, but let's face it Bj. whether they do or don't won't affect the rest of us in any way, we can only show that there are different ways of achieving similar results, the rest is up to the individual.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

PEACE brother ! 

Cowboy I said I was going to push the ski jig,, and that's all I'm doing 

The longer I keep this thread going the more will read it   ,most threads get stuck in the corner as you know..  

Have at it Joe, it's all yours 


Bj 




Drugstore Cowboy said:


> *Yes -- I do get it --*
> and I am beginning to realize --
> --* I* -- *didn't* stir the pot --
> 
> ...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> Bj, the likes of you and me are always on the lookout for new things, not just in tools but everything, when digital radio starts in Australia I'll be one of the first to buy a receiver, you probably already have one, but let's face it Bj, some people are quite happy to still use the crystal set passed down by their grandfather, seeing no reason to try new technology. Just like you eventually decided to give some of Tom's ideas a try, with surprising results, so may some of the other diehards one day, but let's face it Bj. whether they do or don't won't affect the rest of us in any way, we can only show that there are different ways of achieving similar results, the rest is up to the individual.


OK--
First let me apologize to Joe for taking so much of his time - 
and to those I am sure I am about to offend.
But for the first time since I have been coming here -- I DO FEEL OFFENDED 

I was not disagreeing with BJ - at all -
But I WILL DISAGREE STRONGLY with this on several levels.
And I have said before that I was not offended by anything said here - because whether someone likes my way of doing something or not --
But when my intelligence is directly attacked -- that's a different story.

You *SAY* all you want to do is show people other ways of doing things --
Well - that is ALL JOE was DOING -- showing his way of doing things to others who may or may not have tried them - and explaining why he liked them. And all I did - was agree that there was value in what he said.

BUT -- because *HIS different way* - was different from *your pet different way* -- he and people like me who who DARE to suggest there might be value of doing things are branded as* ignorant throwbacks on a level with someone who doesnt appreciate the difference between a crystal set and digital radio* -- as people who arent willing or able to understand new things. That if we just opened our minds we would understand how wrong we are and how wonderful your way is.

That may not be what you meant -
I know, Harry - from other discussions with you that you say that is not what you mean --
but that is exactly what you just said.

*The concept* that someone may be very skilled and intelligent -
May *thoroughly understand your ideas* -- may have even tried them -
And still - for well reasoned - intelligent reasons -- PREFER a different -- seems to *never occur to you*.

I just dont understand that attitude AT ALL.
The bad thing is -- I actually *LIKE some of your ideas* -
But when you start denigrating me and putting me down -
accusing me of being backward and opposed to anything new - because I see equal value in other ways of doing things -- *that's a turn off.*
Whether you MEAN to or not -- your attitude says - yes - we welcome people with other ideas -- but only as potential converts -- not as equally intelligent and skilled people - who just happen to not agree.

I should hush.
And I should probably stay out of here for a while -- 
I suspect I have alienated several.
But be assured - you have as well.
You say you wonder why more people dont join and post ---
Has it occurred to you it might be because they have read comments like the one posted here by Harry -- and realize that if their ideas are different - they will be subject to attack.
Just something to think about.

I like you guys -- I feel like there is something I could learn from each and every one of you.
If you feel the same -- comments like the one above sure dont show it.
Just something to think about --

Guess it's time to go put another log in the wood stove and heat the water for my bath in the #10 tub after I go make sure my horse is fed and my buggy is secure for the night.
I wont be bothering anyone with any more of my backward thinking for a while .

Blessings on you all --


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I've just re-read my post which appears to have offended Cowboy and nowhere did I name names, and did not in fact have him in mind, therefore I can only apologise that he thought that I had him in mind, in any case my intended meaning has gone well over his head.

"whether they do or don't won't affect the rest of us in any way, we can only show that there are different ways of achieving similar results, the rest is up to the individual."
__________________


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> PEACE brother !
> Cowboy I said I was going to *push* the ski jig,, and that's all I'm doing
> Bj


Bj,

Therefore, you're NOT using *YOUR *jig properly!

I'm sure Harry will agree... as in electronics, YOUR jig must be *Push/Pull*... without that, it's only *ONEWAY* & we all know that won't work... !!  

Someday, when the opportunity presents, I *might* give the ole Skis a _bloody_ try...  

But, til then, I kinda like Sinatra's way... *My Way!*  :sold:


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> "whether they do or don't won't affect the rest of us in any way, we can only show that there are different ways of achieving similar results, the rest is up to the individual."
> __________________


*... and Push it down our bloody throats...   *

... I understand the Ski "method"... do you understand my 1x2 "method"? 

Try it, Harry... you just might like it...   ... and I'll bet it wouldn't cost you a Pence... or a trip to the jolly store... 

When I gather the parts to build the Skis without going out of my way to the store, I shall try it...

Till then, I'm with Sinatra...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

WHAT ???
What ,,,Push/Pull ????

"Therefore, you're NOT using *YOUR *jig properly!" what ?


Bj 

=======


Joe Lyddon said:


> Bj,
> 
> Therefore, you're NOT using *YOUR *jig properly!
> 
> ...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

harrysin said:


> I've just re-read my post which appears to have offended Cowboy and nowhere did I name names, and did not in fact have him in mind, therefore I can only apologise that he thought that I had him in mind, in any case my intended meaning has gone well over his head.
> 
> "whether they do or don't won't affect the rest of us in any way, we can only show that there are different ways of achieving similar results, the rest is up to the individual."
> __________________


Sorry -- I had said I wouldnt post further -- but someone sent me a message and I came back to read it and saw this

*There you go again -*
Anyone who doesn't agree with you is ignorant -
NO -- your meaning did NOT go *over my head* -
I read what you said quite clearly --
I wont bore you with my background - because it's immaterial
Suffice it to say I am every bit as intelligent and able to comprehend meaning as you are.

And no -- you did not just offend me personally -- 
Frankly that would have been easier to understand - 
You insulted anyone and everyone who chooses not to use your process by comparing them with someone so thoughtless that they woudn't appreciate the difference between a crystal radio and digital sound - someone who was mindlessly using the techniques passed down from their grandfathers and unable or unwilling to explore new technology.
You refused to allow for the possibility that choosing not to use your technique could be *as valid and intelligent a choice* as using it.

If that is not what you meant -- then the issue is not that your brilliant thoughts went over my poor ignorant head -
- but that you didn't say what you meant. 
And frankly I hope you didn't -- 
you usually seem like far too rational and reasonable a person to hold the kind of attitude reflected in your post.
I would never presume to categorize you as you have chosen to categorize those of us whose opinions and choices differ from yours.

I can't even really say I disagree with you - because some of your ideas have a lot of merit -- you just do your cause a great disservice when you attempt to demean and discredit anyone who sees value in other technigues.

Best of luck to you all ---

And as far as grandfather's techniques (demeaned in your previous note)--
When I compare the quality and craftsmanship of some of the items built in my grandfather's day -- with some of the outright CRAP I see in furniture stores today ----
The makers could do a LOT WORSE than to learn from granddad.


----------



## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

There you go again Cowboy, reading things into my posts that were not only not intended, but not even thought of. Even Joe doesn't seem to be offended, and so he shouldn't, he even threatens to try some of these alternate ways of doing things. On a regular basis I attempt things that I see on this forum, when I like them I say so, when I don't I say nothing! So in conclusion Cowboy, please accept my apologies for giving offence when I assure you non was intended. This forum needs people like you, me, Joe and in fact all members, everyone has something to offer, it's just that some like me are more outspoken than others. Sure Joe and I have the occasional poke at each other but we are still able to have pleasant conversations on Skype. I look forward to you're continued input to the forum Cowboy.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Joe
> 
> WHAT ???
> What ,,,Push/Pull ????
> ...



Yes Bob... *Push/Pull!*  

If you had used some of your time studying Electronics, instead of being an appliance operator, you would have known what Push/Pull is... 

Anything that only Pushes... is going ONE WAY...
Anything that only Pulls... is going ONE WAY...

It's a law of Physics, young man!

Now, you can lookup/search and do some study...   

If you had understood, you would have known that it was a *Play on Words!* :sold:

Do it YOUR way...


----------



## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Harry -
I do consider myself reasonably intelligent -- but no - I can't read minds or intent.
I can only read what is written -
And what you wrote was that people who don't choose to use certain pet procedures -were "diehards" and people who are 
". . . quite happy to still use the crystal set passed down by their grandfather, seeing no reason to try new technology". Whether it was intentional or not -- that terminology comes across very strongly as a put down.
When I let you know I took it that way -- I was then told that your meaning "went well over (my) head." Where I live - that means one thing -- that the person listening is just not capable of understanding my meaning. Another put-down.
So - yes -- I did take offense - with just cause.

You say that the whole point is to explore different ways of doing things -- yet the words that I keep hearing -- contradict that.
This original discussion is a case in point -
Joe presented a way to meet a need -- a method that was quick - simple and effective. Was it acknowledged -- no -- it was met with an discussion of how he should have done it differently.
I mentioned that I saw some value in Joe's method especially its simplicity.
I commented that under the circumstances he described his way got the job done just as well -- and was much simpler than dropping what he was doing - going to the hardware store and building a new tool.
This was not a value judgement -- it was a simple - demonstrable - fact.
But could even that much be acknowledged --- no --
I was told I just didn't 'get it'. And more discussion of why if I only knew better I would agree that I was wrong.

IF there is anyone whose attitude comes across as unwilling to explore alternatives -
it is those whose primary goal is to push their pet methods and can't bring themselves to acknowledge the idea that some different method might be just as good.

I don't begrudge anyone being excited about their way of doing things -
What gets on my nerves is this constant put down (intentional or not) of people who don't do it your way.

Anyway -- you say you didn't mean these things as put downs -- I like to believe the best of people so I believe you. But I hope you will take my thoughts as to how you are coming across to heart -- you might have a better luck with some people.
*Your apology is accepted.*

As to how much if any I will continue posting -- 
I really don't know. -- I doubt I would be missed 
You see -- I am eager to LEARN new things -- but I am NOT looking to be-
CONVERTED.
And this -- "If you only realized how wonderful thus and such is -- or how wise so and so is -- you would understand the true way" seems to be a recurring theme here.
And I am not saying there is anything inherently wrong with that -- most folks here seem to like it -- or those that dont arent as noisy as me.
It's just not an atmosphere I enjoy -- 
And since I seem to be the one most bothered -- the gracious thing for me to do might well be to make myself scarce.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Joe

"you can lookup/search and do some study" why in the world would I do that.

I wish I was a "young man!" I maybe older than you Joe  or just about the same .... just a bit bigger maybe  



Bj 

===========

Just keeping this thread open and running  pushing the ski jig 

=============




===============


Joe Lyddon said:


> Yes Bob... *Push/Pull!*
> 
> If you had used some of your time studying Electronics, instead of being an appliance operator, you would have known what Push/Pull is...
> 
> ...


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> Harry -
> I do consider myself reasonably intelligent -- but no - I can't read minds or intent.
> I can only read what is written -
> And what you wrote was that people who don't choose to use certain pet procedures -were "diehards" and people who are
> ...


Don't let it get to you... when he does it again, just say 
"There he goes again!"  

I just put someone Back on my Ignore List... to reduce the brain clutter.  

I enjoy your posts & comments... please stay...

Thank you...


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Joe

I see you got your camera working, that's great now you can post a snapshot or two of your Drum Sander that I have been waiting for ,almost 2 years now, I sure would like to see how you made yours and how you set it up....

http://www.routerforums.com/portable-routing/2555-planing-router-5.html

http://www.routerforums.com/portable-routing/2555-planing-router.html


" Joe "We have a saying here... "No pictures, didn't happen." "


Bj


----------



## Mark (Aug 4, 2004)

This is a message to everyone, if you have different opinions on methods, tools, wood, varnish, hair cuts, dogs, cats, weather, cars, computers, food, languages, flowers, ... *anything*. Talk about it maturely and *do not* insult each other or specific objects or methods.

If you have any questions for me regarding this, send me a PM.


----------



## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Here is a link that might be easier to view the pics...

Hope it works...

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=13817


----------

