# what table do you use your skis on?



## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi:

I'm rebuilding my ski table. Would welcome comments on what you're using that might help me improve mine.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Ron - I've seen several different "contraptions" that people refer to as "skis". Here's a general recommendation (kind of a "one size fits all") that I am going to recommend - this works on virtually anything. Take a photo of what you have, make a sketch of it and make a list of likes and dislikes. Make a wish list of how you would like to have it function differently and do your homework on other comparative models (homemades are perfect) to determine how situations YOU NEED TO DO can best be approached. You may need your version to be taller or lower, longer or shorter, wider or narrower, etc. You may imagine any tool-holders you need built-in, or better electrical connections to be facilitated, or maybe your lighting should improve. THINK SAFETY FIRST and you are certain to better enjoy your revision! Have fun doing it, also. *OPG3*


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

OPG3 said:


> Ron - I've seen several different "contraptions" that people refer to as "skis". Here's a general recommendation (kind of a "one size fits all") that I am going to recommend - this works on virtually anything. Take a photo of what you have, make a sketch of it and make a list of likes and dislikes. Make a wish list of how you would like to have it function differently and do your homework on other comparative models (homemades are perfect) to determine how situations YOU NEED TO DO can best be approached. You may need your version to be taller or lower, longer or shorter, wider or narrower, etc. You may imagine any tool-holders you need built-in, or better electrical connections to be facilitated, or maybe your lighting should improve. THINK SAFETY FIRST and you are certain to better enjoy your revision! Have fun doing it, also. *OPG3*


Hi Otis:

Thanks for the reply and the method. I've now done it and reviewed my design. However, I'm still looking to see how others' use their skis. 

You see, I've done some experimentation with skis and discovered that I can do some functions similar to pivot frames with skis. But, before I complete my ski table, I wanted to see if other people had better ideas than mine.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Ron,

Check out the post by Harrysin... you do not need a dedicated table to produce great results with skis...AS long as the table is flat and the cheeks don't fall of the edge.....


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Any flat smooth surface will work if it's large enough. I use my workbench most of the time, but it's only about 20" front to back. When I need to move over a greater area I just add a piece of plywood to the top of the bench. Whenever preparing to use skis on a project it's best to do a rehearsal, moving the router and skis over the entire planned path to be sure that you won't have any surprises when you do the cut and the router is running. When you do this rehearsal it's easy to see if your ski will need more table to ride on, or if you will run into something that should be moved out of the way before starting.

Charley


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

What the heck are ski's ? Not the snow kind I hope ?


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Garyk said:


> What the heck are ski's ? Not the snow kind I hope ?


Hi Gary - See the sticky at the top of this forum


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Gary

It's just a router table upside down you could say it's just a way to support the weight of the router just like a router table.

You don't need a flat table top or a big work bench to use it, you can use a flat board (cam board) or a holding box for your blank stock, you can also use your router table top, it's always flat the norm..just put blocks on the back side of your flat board or holding box and drop it into the hole in your router table for your router plate..


If you put rollers /wheels on the ends of your support rods (beams) you can use it anywhere in the shop or outside of the shop ( job site )

It can also be used as a great cir. jig,see video below 
Trend Pivot Frame Jig - YouTube

Amazon.com: Trend PFJ/SET/1 Pivot Frame Jig Set: Home Improvement

It can also be used to make rosettes with just a plunge router bit no need to pay for the high price of the rosette cutters any more.
MLCS Rosette Cutters and Profile knives
Plus you can make them any size you want ,no the little profiles any more.
Plunge bits and yes you can use a 1/4" plunge router to do it,easy.
Grizzly.com® -- Product Categories

If you make your holding box just the right size you can drop your Milescraft plate right into it (one jig for many jobs)

Amazon.com: Milescraft 1207 Router Design Inlay Kit: Home Improvement

Just a note ++++++
The best ski jig I have seen is the one Dave (Dr Zook) came up with  see below,, note the big boy router in place, it will knock down any hill.. 


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Garyk said:


> What the heck are ski's ? Not the snow kind I hope ?


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## PigBear (Dec 14, 2010)

I have a big piece of MDF that I put on top of my table saw and clamp it to the table with spring clamps. This provides a nice flat and smooth surface that the skis can slide across easily - i.e. the miter slots in the table would make for a skiing accident if I just used the table itself. 

I use rubber drawer liner underneath the piece to hold it while I'm routing. Dust can build up in the liner when you move the piece you're working on around. So I just beat it once or twice against the table to get the dust out of it and go back to work.

The tables like bobj3's are something I'd build if I were using my skiis a lot - I can see advantages to that approach.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks to John & BJ for the info on the Ski's. I was aware of some of the techniques but hadn't heard the ski reference. Learn something new each day. I'm venturing into building a CNC router which is also new to me. Understand CNC, just never tried to build one.

Gary


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Garyk said:


> Thanks to John & BJ for the info on the Ski's. I was aware of some of the techniques but hadn't heard the ski reference. Learn something new each day. I'm venturing into building a CNC router which is also new to me. Understand CNC, just never tried to build one.
> 
> Gary


Hi Gary:

Just a moment. There are 25 methods or ways to use a router. Skis are only one method. The item that BobJ3 is referring to is known as a pivot frame which is dramatically different than skis. A pivot frame is skis on steroids with a big restriction. A pivot frame uses tracks, indexes or guides. The templates and plastic frames that Bob is showing are jigs and not methods and can be used by a variety of methods.

The strength of CNC is the ease of producing multiple copies of the same thing. The strength of the pivot frame is the ability to do geometric artistry in wood. Even CNC with diagonal controls can't do geometric cleanly and nicely like a pivot frame can. 

Skis, on the other hand, _are_ an inverted router table. My experiments show that the most proficient use of skis is freehand but they are equally productive with a fence and sliding the router on the rails. My experiments prove that this is feasible and a valid method of working. To sufficient extent that I'm using my radial arm saw, less and less.

My primary restriction now is the size of the skis table. I define 6 tables of which the skis table is one. I've done several experiments with different sizes of skis tables and I'm trying 3'x4'. My second problem with ski tables is work piece and skis holding methods. That's what prompted this size. 

For expertise in templates you seek out Tom O'Donnell. For pivot frames and skis you seek Jack Cox.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

CharleyL said:


> Any flat smooth surface will work if it's large enough. I use my workbench most of the time, but it's only about 20" front to back. When I need to move over a greater area I just add a piece of plywood to the top of the bench. Whenever preparing to use skis on a project it's best to do a rehearsal, moving the router and skis over the entire planned path to be sure that you won't have any surprises when you do the cut and the router is running. When you do this rehearsal it's easy to see if your ski will need more table to ride on, or if you will run into something that should be moved out of the way before starting.
> 
> Charley


Thanks Charley:

Good advice. How did you hold your project to the plywood? That's my biggest problem.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

PigBear said:


> I have a big piece of MDF that I put on top of my table saw and clamp it to the table with spring clamps. This provides a nice flat and smooth surface that the skis can slide across easily - i.e. the miter slots in the table would make for a skiing accident if I just used the table itself.
> 
> I use rubber drawer liner underneath the piece to hold it while I'm routing. Dust can build up in the liner when you move the piece you're working on around. So I just beat it once or twice against the table to get the dust out of it and go back to work.
> 
> The tables like bobj3's are something I'd build if I were using my skiis a lot - I can see advantages to that approach.


Thanks PigBear:

I'm using MDF for my standard table but I fear it is too weak to take stresses of holdfasts and cauls. I have a real problem with holding the work piece. The jigs that Bob3J is showing are great for templates but very restrictive when using skis, especially with long pieces. 

The drawer liner you suggest is excellent when there is downward pressure on the work piece from the weight of the router. My problem is my work pieces are oversized and I need the ability to move on all axis so the table becomes an integral part of work piece holding.

However, I thank you for your expertise and comments. It causes me to rethink my philosophy and hopefully improve it.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Ron,

I usually screw down a frame of scrap wood a bit larger than my project and thin enough that it will not interfere with the router bit path. I also countersink the screw heads into this frame. Then I use wedges in pairs to lock the project into this frame. This holds the project piece in position very well, but it depends mostly on gravity to hold it down against the table. Your project can't be warped, not even slightly. It needs to sit flat on the table or you will have problems. Using the wedges and a slightly larger frame, instead of just building the frame around the project, makes it easier to make multiple pieces since they can be removed, installed, and clamped in place much easier than disassembling the frame to get the pieces out. The wedges also allow you to get a very tight fit so that the part can't move when being routed. I would post a photo, but don't have that capability at this time. If you search for "router skis" on the site you will find many photos that show how others are using their skis and clamping their work. I think Harry Sinclair (Harry Sin) uses the same clamping method that I do.

Charley


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

I hadn't thought about a specific table for the skis I am building, but was going to use my work bench. This thread got me to thinking though. Why not a piece of 1/2 inch ply topped with 1/4 inch MDF or tempered hardboard? The table I built for my Woodhaven planer is a table within a table. I installed 30 evenly spaced T-Nuts in the upper table and use those to clamp wedges against the stock being planed. It is made of 3/4 inch MDF and when I get the stock situated where I want it I then hold it in place with carpet tape and wedges on all four sides. Doing something like the planer upper table using 1/2 inch ply and 1/4 inch MDF or hardboard clamped to a workbench or wherever should work with skis just as well I would think. I am at least going to give it a shot with my skis.


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## PigBear (Dec 14, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> Thanks PigBear:
> 
> I'm using MDF for my standard table but I fear it is too weak to take stresses of holdfasts and cauls. I have a real problem with holding the work piece. The jigs that Bob3J is showing are great for templates but very restrictive when using skis, especially with long pieces.
> 
> ...


Yes, I would agree that MDF would be problematic for any holding hardware. I don't tend to use it for more than backer board when routing through wood.

On the drawer liner I've found that with the pieces I've worked with that their own weight was sufficient to keep them held in place. The problem I had was with dust building up as I moved the piece and that caused the drawer liner to slip allowing the piece to shift.

A more solid hold down, clamp, or bench dog would be better.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Charley:



CharleyL said:


> Ron,
> 
> I usually screw down a frame of scrap wood a bit larger than my project and thin enough that it will not interfere with the router bit path. I also countersink the screw heads into this frame. Then I use wedges in pairs to lock the project into this frame. This holds the project piece in position very well, but it depends mostly on gravity to hold it down against the table.


Yup, I think this is one of Tom O'Donnell's methods. Fine for templating but not great for skis. Flat is the problem and wedges can lift the workpiece. 



CharleyL said:


> Your project can't be warped, not even slightly. It needs to sit flat on the table or you will have problems. Using the wedges and a slightly larger frame, instead of just building the frame around the project, makes it easier to make multiple pieces since they can be removed, installed, and clamped in place much easier than disassembling the frame to get the pieces out. The wedges also allow you to get a very tight fit so that the part can't move when being routed. I would post a photo, but don't have that capability at this time. If you search for "router skis" on the site you will find many photos that show how others are using their skis and clamping their work. I think Harry Sinclair (Harry Sin) uses the same clamping method that I do.
> 
> Charley


Thanks for your insight. I've reviewed much of what is available on the forums and I find the information sparse, thus, this thread.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Ken:



Ken Bee said:


> I hadn't thought about a specific table for the skis I am building, but was going to use my work bench. This thread got me to thinking though. Why not a piece of 1/2 inch ply topped with 1/4 inch MDF or tempered hardboard?


The work bench may be perfect.
1. it is usually perfectly flat
2. there is usually excellent holding methods either dogs or hold fasts
3. the bench size is the limiting factor. I have three sets of skis and the largest won't fit on most commercial benches.

I also tried the plywood and MDF methods as well. The plywood bent too easily and spoiled the workpiece. The MDF was fine until I cranked down the cauls and it just broke. I was using cauls as a holding method but that's why I'm working on a laminated maple table.



Ken Bee said:


> The table I built for my Woodhaven planer is a table within a table. I installed 30 evenly spaced T-Nuts in the upper table and use those to clamp wedges against the stock being planed. It is made of 3/4 inch MDF and when I get the stock situated where I want it I then hold it in place with carpet tape and wedges on all four sides. Doing something like the planer upper table using 1/2 inch ply and 1/4 inch MDF or hardboard clamped to a workbench or wherever should work with skis just as well I would think. I am at least going to give it a shot with my skis.


I was using cauls bridged across the top of the workpiece and using the table top as the resistance points. That didn't work well. Clamping the wedges to the table surface should be fine. MDF holds up fine to compression, just not tension ;-(

I don't have much luck with carpet tape. It either won't stick or won't come loose. I'm considering using hot melt glue. Experiments forthcoming.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

PigBear said:


> Yes, I would agree that MDF would be problematic for any holding hardware. I don't tend to use it for more than backer board when routing through wood.
> 
> On the drawer liner I've found that with the pieces I've worked with that their own weight was sufficient to keep them held in place. The problem I had was with dust building up as I moved the piece and that caused the drawer liner to slip allowing the piece to shift.
> 
> A more solid hold down, clamp, or bench dog would be better.


Thanks for the comments PigBear.


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## KenBee (Jan 1, 2011)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Ken: I don't have much luck with carpet tape. It either won't stick or won't come loose. I'm considering using hot melt glue. Experiments forthcoming.


The only problem I foresee with using hot glue is maintaining a perfectly level planing surface. In my experience hot glue tends to squeeze out in irregular heights. I have some Ace Hardware brand carpet tape and you are right, it takes a pry bar to break it loose providing both surfaces are clean.

I will keep an eye out for the results of your experiments.


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