# An experimental conga drum



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

After having been suitably harassed in the introductions, I think it's time I got on with asking the question that I came here for.

For some time now, I have been searching the web to see if I could find out whether or not it is possible to make a segmented conga drum. Thus far my searching has come up with a grand total of zilch.

I have found plenty of snare and toms made with segmented construction, but that's all.

So I tried forging ahead without the benefit of finding the mistakes that others have made, and decided that I would need to make my own silly mistakes.

The pic that I am somewhat embarrassedly (is that a real word?) posting, shows what I have glued up over the past several days. For the numerically inclined among you, there are 360 pieces of wood in that thing.

Now, there's no way that one could turn this on a lathe, as it would explode into a magnificent pile of firewood immediately, of that I am sure.

Ergo, we need some sort of jig to use with a router.

I'm all ears for your best suggestions.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey! I love it the way it is!!


Would something like this work for you?
Industrial Wood-Shaping Cutter Kit - Lee Valley Tools


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

all words are good...
to get really good... please learn typonese...

harassment....
doubt it...
but if you wold like some that can be arranged...

make a template of the shape/curvature you want...
electric plane it to rough shape/profile...
finish w/ a spoke shave, flex plane and an ROS...
reference your template often..

next time don't include so much waste material in your project...
build a layer..
mark out the circumference....
trim w/ your jigsaw set to an angle that meets the need...
repeat incrementally...

electric plane.. PL1682 3-1/4" Planer | Bosch Power Tools
spoke shave... Veritas® Large Spokeshave - Lee Valley Tools
flex plane... It?s Just Cool: Flexible Sole Plane | Toolmonger
jigsaw.. JS572EL 7.2A Top-Handle Jig Saw Kit | Bosch Power Tools


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Hey! I love it the way it is!!
> 
> 
> Would something like this work for you?
> Industrial Wood-Shaping Cutter Kit - Lee Valley Tools


me too and we shouldn't tell him that...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Dan, I have something very similar to this. Having been a Lee Valley customer since 1977, I think I must have got my cutter from them at least 20 years ago.

It's different from the one you linked to...it's the type with a mini chainsaw chain. Gotta tell you, it's a vicious cutter.

I have given thought to trying some 36 grit on one of my R/O sanders, but I think some sort of router jig will be needed to do an even job.

I can see possibly trying one of these grinder type wheels to get rid of some of the bulk, but then it needs to be got round after that.

Of course, my other alternative would be to build a conga using one of the established methods.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick, thanks for enlightening me as to the lingo.

Typonese it is, I always used "Chinglish" but I shall correct my ways forthwith.

I have the tools you list with the exception of the flex plane. Yes, I agree it's pretty cool, also pricey if my feeble memory serves me.

The method you describe would not yield what I'm looking for. Just like the rest of you guys, I just have to be different. But I do know what you mean.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

harassment....
doubt it...
but if you wold like some that can be arranged...

Stick, do you offer this service for everyone, or is it just a special for lil' old me?

Incidentally, all the stock for this was a freebie, and I have plenty more where that came from. Better than 95% of the wood is clear and extremely dry.

Perhaps I should reconsider and make an attempt to try your method. I have seen it done before, just never tried it myself.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> harassment....
> doubt it...
> but if you wold like some that can be arranged...
> 
> ...


harassment is equal opportunity...
open to all...

free stock is the best kind...
what is it...
can I hazard a guess at VGF..

one or two layups should tell you if it would work...
is the inside reverse of the exterior???..
be nice to leave the one shwn as is...

I like your approach..


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

The only way I see is that you need to make a frame that it would spin in, you would need end plates on the drum to hold each end centrally and a post at each end to support it and I would turn the drum by hand, the post needs bearings at each end for the spin, looking at the photo then it looks like the high point to the low point is over an inch but under two inches, that could have been reduced if there were more segments in each ring, either way that is too much to cut away in one pass, as the rotation would be slow then each pass could not have a deeper cut than a 1/4 inch and a 1/4 inch along the arch, that could be OK if the rotation was slow at the start the cut would be stop/start until it was round, I would make an arch that was attached to the top of each post and the arch would have to be the shape you want the router to cut the drum to and you need to be able to lower the arch at each end to get a deeper cut, the router would travel on a sled along the arch. one rotation at a time, do one full rotation before the router sled moved along the arch to do the next circular cut, I would use a planing cutter with a flat bottom and the bottom of the cutter will have to be held square with the cut, as the difference between the high and the low points is so much then you will have to do many rotations to get the drum finished, I would do the final pass as only an 1/8th of an inch, this can be done but you will need a big Router lathe, see my Router Lathe post for what the beam and posts needs to look like, I am making mine so well as I will keep it for years and years and use it for many items but you lathe does have to be strong to support the arch/sled but I would only make it as well as you need it to be so how many drums will you make? what you need to build is not that different to what I am making, my lathe has a flat top, yours will have a pair of arched top rails that the Router Sled will move along. best of luck. N

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/81169-neville9999s-router-lathe.html


----------



## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Keith,
I agree with Neville in that you would have to make a frame similar to a lathe so it could be rotated slowly by hand, either by crank or a wheel attached the end. My first thought was to attach the frame so it could be hung as a pendulum over a tablesaw to rough it to shape by spinning and swinging, but that would take some serious stabilizing. If you started with a frame that it could rotate on, and made a curved pair of rails for a router to follow, then when it's roughed down you might be able to adapt the curved rails to hold a belt sander or disk sander to further refine the finish. Nice challenge!


----------



## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I could turn this on my ornamental mill. There are several home built ornamental mill designs you could adapt to your project. If you take the example link below and make the sides of the box match your desired curve it should work.

Homemade Router Lathe


Oh, and use a large core box bit for turning


----------



## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Yup, maybe something like in the pic but with curved rails and much bigger. On curved rails the router base would rock, so you might have to have the leading and trailing ends of the base raised higher than the center. Maybe metal rods, wheels or pulleys would make for easier movement.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Hi Keith. I'm sorry I missed your intro yesterday. I'm your closest neighbor, although you aren't the first to register from that area. Are you closer to Salmon Arm or Sycamous?

That assembly could be turned on a lathe if the bed depth was deep enough but most of the hobbyist ones only have a 12" swing so that leaves that out. As Paul just showed it's easy to turn a cylinder with a router sled. I think you could make one like he suggests with rails that match the curve on the drum and it will still work but I'm not sure how smooth you will get it since it will be hard to keep the router vertical to the cut and the corners of the bit may did in at times. 

Since you have a Lancelot disc for your grinder I would use it to rough out the shape and then I would use a plane or spoke shave to smooth it. In fact I might be inclined to just do the whole drum by hand and it might be faster than the router lathe.


----------



## walowan (Jan 21, 2011)

I have made several segmented drum hoops of all sizes. I use 40 or 60 grit sanding discs on an angle grinder, then ROS for the finish sanding.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm still going with the piece of art p.o.v.
I was also wondering about the internal shape? It must be pretty uneven(?).


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> The only way I see is that you need to make a frame that it would spin in, you would need end plates on the drum to hold each end centrally and a post at each end to support it and I would turn the drum by hand, the post needs bearings at each end for the spin, looking at the photo then it looks like the high point to the low point is over an inch but under two inches, that could have been reduced if there were more segments in each ring, either way that is too much to cut away in one pass, as the rotation would be slow then each pass could not have a deeper cut than a 1/4 inch and a 1/4 inch along the arch, that could be OK if the rotation was slow at the start the cut would be stop/start until it was round, I would make an arch that was attached to the top of each post and the arch would have to be the shape you want the router to cut the drum to and you need to be able to lower the arch at each end to get a deeper cut, the router would travel on a sled along the arch. one rotation at a time, do one full rotation before the router sled moved along the arch to do the next circular cut, I would use a planing cutter with a flat bottom and the bottom of the cutter will have to be held square with the cut, as the difference between the high and the low points is so much then you will have to do many rotations to get the drum finished, I would do the final pass as only an 1/8th of an inch, this can be done but you will need a big Router lathe, see my Router Lathe post for what the beam and posts needs to look like, I am making mine so well as I will keep it for years and years and use it for many items but you lathe does have to be strong to support the arch/sled but I would only make it as well as you need it to be so how many drums will you make? what you need to build is not that different to what I am making, my lathe has a flat top, yours will have a pair of arched top rails that the Router Sled will move along. best of luck. N
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/81169-neville9999s-router-lathe.html


G'day Neville. You are the one who is entirely to blame for me joining this forum. When I did my searches on Mr. Google, your thread on your current lathe building project came up. Have you not received the metal parts yet that you are waiting for? Lots of us are awaiting the final completion of your lathe.

I'm surprised that a man of your considerable talent does not weld. It's actually pretty easy with oxy-acetylene, and you can even do stainless steel with gas. I know that most people think you need to use tig, but gas works especially if you have one of the Dillon Mk.111 welders.

Now, as far as the number of pieces in each segment goes, I do realize that more pieces in each layer would work much better. I will work out the lengths for 12 pieces per layer to see what the difference would be. It currently uses just eight per layer. 

That would bump the glue-up to 540 pieces...not sure that I want to do that.

Now, as far as the actual shape of the router lathe goes, I already made up a laminated piece to the shape that I wanted. I would need to make up two wider pieces with exactly the same shape in order to let the router be guided to the proper profile.

I think I can solve the tipping problem by using arborite to keep the router on an even keel. Actually make a piece which would fit under the router base and on to the top of the two laminated sections and stick a narrow strip of arboreta under the ends. 

I have built telescopes in the past, and we use a similar system to allow the 'scopes to pivot on. Almost no drag doing that, so it should make for an easy slide. I'll give that some more thought to improve upon the basic idea before I start on the actual construction.

I think it is entirely unfair that you have such gorgeous weather down your way while we are just now getting to be buried in our usual winter snow.

Thank you for your insight Neville, I'm sure we will be conversing much more in the future.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Keith,
> I agree with Neville in that you would have to make a frame similar to a lathe so it could be rotated slowly by hand, either by crank or a wheel attached the end. My first thought was to attach the frame so it could be hung as a pendulum over a tablesaw to rough it to shape by spinning and swinging, but that would take some serious stabilizing. If you started with a frame that it could rotate on, and made a curved pair of rails for a router to follow, then when it's roughed down you might be able to adapt the curved rails to hold a belt sander or disk sander to further refine the finish. Nice challenge!


I'm with you here, but I wouldn't entertain the tablesaw idea. I think that would be too risky.

I never even thought about adding some sort of sander to the rig as well, but that sounds like a capital suggestion. Of course, first I will have to go with the router setup.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

kp91 said:


> I could turn this on my ornamental mill. There are several home built ornamental mill designs you could adapt to your project. If you take the example link below and make the sides of the box match your desired curve it should work.
> 
> Homemade Router Lathe
> 
> ...


The only ornamental lathe I have ever seen is a Holtzapfel (sp?) lathe. Quite the rig I must say.

I have about 100 or so router bits here, pretty sure I can find something suitable. Not sure I have a BIG core box bit, but I do have a smaller one for sure.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

TenGees said:


> Yup, maybe something like in the pic but with curved rails and much bigger. On curved rails the router base would rock, so you might have to have the leading and trailing ends of the base raised higher than the center. Maybe metal rods, wheels or pulleys would make for easier movement.


Hi Paul...another crazy Canuck I see!

Thanks for the photo, nice setup.

Giving a little more thought to the router base, I could actually laminate some wood to the exact shape - or very close anyway - and then add a strip of arborite to the ends to make it slide easily. As mentioned in my earlier post, we use something similar to pivot telescopes on and it works well.

Providing the curve is constant, that would work fine. The curve of the drum may straighten out somewhat at the lower end, which would mean I would need to have only the leading/trailing ends in contact with the rails.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Hi Keith. I'm sorry I missed your intro yesterday. I'm your closest neighbor, although you aren't the first to register from that area. Are you closer to Salmon Arm or Sycamous?
> 
> That assembly could be turned on a lathe if the bed depth was deep enough but most of the hobbyist ones only have a 12" swing so that leaves that out. As Paul just showed it's easy to turn a cylinder with a router sled. I think you could make one like he suggests with rails that match the curve on the drum and it will still work but I'm not sure how smooth you will get it since it will be hard to keep the router vertical to the cut and the corners of the bit may did in at times.
> 
> Since you have a Lancelot disc for your grinder I would use it to rough out the shape and then I would use a plane or spoke shave to smooth it. In fact I might be inclined to just do the whole drum by hand and it might be faster than the router lathe.


Hi Chuck, we are 80 kms from Salmon Arm by road, more like 20 k's as the crow flies.

Utilizing all the ideas here, I think the problems of proper shape, digging in, etc. are solving themselves. Keeping the router square to the work should actually be quite simple.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

walowan said:


> I have made several segmented drum hoops of all sizes. I use 40 or 60 grit sanding discs on an angle grinder, then ROS for the finish sanding.


Hello Michael. I have seen the segmented hoops and they really do look quite spectacular. My first thought was to use an ROS as you do, but the amount of wood to be removed I think would be too much. Better to use some sort of cutting system...e.g. router.

I forgot to mention in my last post that I do not yet own a lathe, had to sell my last one when I moved away from Ruxton Island. However, it looks like I might be picking one up tomorrow.

Only has a 12" swing, but I will see what I can do about raising that with some metal blocks. Even if I only used it to turn the drum by hand, that would be OK. I should be able to rig up the guide rails in conjunction with the lathe. I think it is 42" between centres, and the drum is 30" tall, so there should be room.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> I'm still going with the piece of art p.o.v.
> I was also wondering about the internal shape? It must be pretty uneven(?).


The inside is the same as the outside, only smaller. So yes, it's pretty bumpy. Looks kinda neat though. :smile:


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Keith,
> I agree with Neville in that you would have to make a frame similar to a lathe so it could be rotated slowly by hand, either by crank or a wheel attached the end. My first thought was to attach the frame so it could be hung as a pendulum over a tablesaw to rough it to shape by spinning and swinging, but that would take some serious stabilizing. If you started with a frame that it could rotate on, and made a curved pair of rails for a router to follow, then when it's roughed down you might be able to adapt the curved rails to hold a belt sander or disk sander to further refine the finish. Nice challenge!


Gary thanks for the comment, if the frame was stiff enough then the drum wold rotate truly, the amount of work you put into any Jigs construction depend on how much you will use them or how good a job you want to do so if the jig is made very well then both things will happen, the drum will turn smoothly and the cuts will be very clean, as long as you are patient and do light cuts, that's the U frame, the arch is harder. you need a rise and fall system at both ends, if the jig was not going to be used that much then this could be held in place with a clamp to the post, just loosen it a little and then tap it down then tighten the clamp, it you wanted to use it a lot then more work could be done so that the ends of the arch went down a threaded rod, the real trick here is the router sled and arch, that has to be made very well as the router would vibrate and the more that it did move under load then the less perfect the cut would be, I wold attach the router box to the sled with a tilting plate so that the angle of the cut could be varied, doing that would be very easy, I would make the arch as a pair of rails that were held apart by the same thickness as the end posts and that way there would be two flat plates that straddle the post at each end and the cutter has to just hang down far enough below the sled to do the cuts, once that arch was done then there are a few ways to make the sled in any regard then after the turns and cuts were done I would use a compass plane to clean it up, a razor sharp blade and the curved base set correctly should get a very good finish, this is just a thought exercise for me, I can see that this idea will work, with all the work that did get put into the drum then more work will be needed to get the outside cut, the good thing is that only the final cuts really matter as all the rest are just to get rid of the waste material so if the arch and the sled are not correct then there is plenty of time to change them and get that so it does cut smoothly, this can work, any free hand method will result in an imperfect drum, it depends on how perfect the drum needs to be, I am sure that I could make a Router Lathe that would turn a near perfect drum, I did think about this one so much that the plan was perfect before I started making it I can't do it as I have three Router Lathe of my own to build, one is nearly done, two more to go but a rotating drum router lathe could be made without that much effort. If the Lathe is stiff and the rotation slow then you would get perfectly circular cuts, if you make the router box so that the cutter can tilt from side to side then you could change the angle of the cut as you need to and improve the final cut, either way the more work that got put into the jig then the less clean up would be needed. N


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> G'day Neville. You are the one who is entirely to blame for me joining this forum. When I did my searches on Mr. Google, your thread on your current lathe building project came up. Have you not received the metal parts yet that you are waiting for? Lots of us are awaiting the final completion of your lathe.
> 
> I'm surprised that a man of your considerable talent does not weld. It's actually pretty easy with oxy-acetylene, and you can even do stainless steel with gas. I know that most people think you need to use tig, but gas works especially if you have one of the Dillon Mk.111 welders.
> 
> ...


First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him. I want it finished soon too but its Christmas and I had to find a replacement machinist who agreed to do it but he had other work he had to do first, so I have to wait until he can, it would be totally unreasonable for me who he did not know, to get in front of his normal clients who pay him real money, I have to wait, I think I could weld OK, I could do a course to get the basics correct, TIG/MIG is best but I don't have any welding gear and I won't buy any as welding for me is only needed every now and then and I am so busy that I just can't find the time, this weld is stainless steel and I need that done very well so not for any beginner to do, the machinist is also doing some threading and drilling index holes and I know how to do that but no metal lathe here, I do need a frame welded to be a large steady rest for my VL175, if you see my workshop at this minute then I don't have space for welding gear, I think I have explained my concept very well, there will be details to sort out, start with the frame and get that done while you think about the rest, this will not be that hard to do. I have to add that there are details about my Lathe that are commercially sensitive, no lathe like this has ever been made before, I am showing all the construction but I won't be showing it all, I will show the broad picture of it, some details will not get shown, N


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> G'day Neville. You are the one who is entirely to blame for me joining this forum. When I did my searches on Mr. Google, your thread on your current lathe building project came up. Have you not received the metal parts yet that you are waiting for? Lots of us are awaiting the final completion of your lathe.
> 
> I'm surprised that a man of your considerable talent does not weld. It's actually pretty easy with oxy-acetylene, and you can even do stainless steel with gas. I know that most people think you need to use tig, but gas works especially if you have one of the Dillon Mk.111 welders.
> 
> ...


I should add that my VL175 is not just a pretty machine, it is that but not just that, I intend to use it to make segmented bowls/urns, so I have done a lot of thinking about making segmented rings, you make a Table saw sled that has a fixed fence, you use a 120 tooth blade, you make wedge blocks that clamp to the sled to give you the correct angle for what ever ring you want, you change the angle by changing the wedge block so you make one of them for all the different numbers, 7,8,9,10,11,12,13..... if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Hello again Neville:

"First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him."

Well, here I go again, I didn't realize how illiterate I must have been. Thank goodness I joined this forum!

Should I ever get this drum into any kind of reasonable shape, then I expect to make perhaps 10 or so all together. So I think, in the long run, that it would be well worth my time to make a permanent type jig for the purpose. You never know when some unsuspecting soul might ask me to build one.

I will use all stainless hardware. Hopefully, I will be able to weld everything up along the lines of that made by Moperc Drums in Quebec. It's actually quite straight forward, one just needs to be patient.

I haven't mentioned yet that I have also glued up a few other shells, but they are of the snare/tom type. I think the jig for that will be a whole lot simpler. With a bit of luck I might be able to do both the inner and outer shaping with the router.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Neville, instead of a series of blocks, why not make up an adjustable sliding clamp. I'm not quite sure how to explain this, but when I needed to make up a whole lot of tapered boards some time ago, I used this adjustable taper jig. Works well and can be altered to just about any angle with considerable accuracy.

"if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N"


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

For what it's worth, here are three of the new batch of shells which will need to get routed down.

I think the setup for these will be far less complicated.


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> Hello again Neville:
> 
> "First it's Doctor Goggle not Mister Google and I am a bit surprised that you found me via him."
> 
> ...


[[/I]

If you do intend tom make more of them then make a very good Router Lathe. The better it is then the better it will work, the less vibration to the cuts then the less hand finishing will be needed. N


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> Neville, instead of a series of blocks, why not make up an adjustable sliding clamp. I'm not quite sure how to explain this, but when I needed to make up a whole lot of tapered boards some time ago, I used this adjustable taper jig. Works well and can be altered to just about any angle with considerable accuracy.
> 
> "if the block does not give you the correct angle for that number of segments then you adjust the block until it does, making segmented rings does not have to be a big deal, still that for an entirely new post, I think I will call it neville9999's segmented ring project. N"


I think you need a simple sled with a fixed fence, then using fixed blocks with the correct angle then there is not adjusting anything, when you want top make a 9segmented ring then all you do it get the 9 block and clamp it down, then cut all of the 9 pieces, as the angle is already correct then all you have to think about is how long the 9 pieces will be cut, when I am ready then I will start a whole new thread about segmented rings. N


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> [[/I]
> 
> If you do intend tom make more of them then make a very good Router Lathe. The better it is then the better it will work, the less vibration to the cuts then the less hand finishing will be needed. N


I shall take your advice Neville, and make it as good as I'm able.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> I think you need a simple sled with a fixed fence, then using fixed blocks with the correct angle then there is not adjusting anything, when you want top make a 9segmented ring then all you do it get the 9 block and clamp it down, then cut all of the 9 pieces, as the angle is already correct then all you have to think about is how long the 9 pieces will be cut, when I am ready then I will start a whole new thread about segmented rings. N


It would be a certainty that which ever block I wanted would go AWOL. Never fails.

Happy new year Neville.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

A little conga tribute to bring in the New Year, eh?


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

She makes a surprisingly good conguero.

Thanks for that and Happy New Year.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Note to CHERRYVILLE CHUCK.

I had no idea where Cherryville was, so I just checked it out on Mr. Google (apologies to Neville here). 

I see you are close to Vernon and not that far from Kelowna.

Have you ever been to Reimer Hardwoods in Kelowna? I used to buy from the store in Abbotsford decades ago when I lived in Aldergrove. Just wondering if you know what sort of stock they keep in Kelowna.

If I ever get this drum thing sorted out I'd like to try some decent hardwood to make a few from.

Thanks.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Keith; further to that grinder accessory link, here's a couple of quick vids of the accessory and another option in action...
Arbortech Woodworking | Woodworking
TURBOPlane
Industrial Woodcarver Prokit
Seems a lot more controllable than the chain type(?).


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

With respect to all the comments my opinion is that the only way you get a perfect finish on the drum is to rotate it under a router cutter and then finish it by hand, it could also be done by hand but that would be far more time consuming and no two drums would be the same, the thing is that if you wanted to make many drums and that they would all be the same the a jig to do the cutting is the only way, I would make the rings with more segments to reduce the high to low gap, then rotate it under a curved jig, its an interesting project. N


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Hey, Keith; further to that grinder accessory link, here's a couple of quick vids of the accessory and another option in action...
> Arbortech Woodworking | Woodworking
> TURBOPlane
> Industrial Woodcarver Prokit
> Seems a lot more controllable than the chain type(?).


Thanks Dan. There's definitely a knack to using the Lancelot. But it's like most things, once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.

Only trouble is, one small slip and it makes a big mess.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> With respect to all the comments my opinion is that the only way you get a perfect finish on the drum is to rotate it under a router cutter and then finish it by hand, it could also be done by hand but that wold be far more time consuming and no two drums wold be the same, the thing is that if you wanted to make many drums and that they would all be the same, then I would make the rings with more segments to reduce the high to low gap, then rotate it under a curved jig, its an interesting project. N


Yes, I agree with you Neville.

This was put together to find the pitfalls that I thought I would inevitably encounter. And the number of segments was probably the biggest pitfall.

Not only that, but using red cedar has made it essentially impossible to turn on a lathe. I knew this would be the case going in, which is why I came here in the first place, to find out about making a router lathe.

Now that I have something to go on...I will go on. :laugh2:


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes, I agree with you Neville.
> 
> This was put together to find the pitfalls that I thought I would inevitably encounter. And the number of segments was probably the biggest pitfall.
> 
> ...


Keith 1350 odd posts ago, I too came here to learn about Router Lathes, I have a big debt to the Forum and to Dick in IA, It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that no one Router Lathe will do every job you want done on a Router Lathe and some jobs are just too hard so I gave my latest Lathe a lot of thought before I started to make it, and I in fact also had to buy a Cue Lathe from the USA at considerable cost for some parts of my Cue Making as some problems could not be solved with a Router Lathe. You have to design and make it to do the job at hand, that's the facts, I have been thinking about your project and were I to do these drums then I would do things differently. I would stave the drum instead of segment it, I would make a Router Lathe to trim the staves to size, The good news for you is that your Router Lathe will work regardless of staves or segments, the cut is the same. I hope you used the best adhesive you could buy, Tightbond2/3 or Urea Formaldehyde type glues, My opinion also is that there is no reason why your drum cannot be made, and made again. My Niece is in Canada right now, I told her that Canadians are strange but also our lost cousins so she should be kind to them. N


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

cocobolo1 said:


> Thanks Dan. There's definitely a knack to using the Lancelot. But it's like most things, once you get the hang of it it's not so bad.
> 
> Only trouble is, one small slip and it makes a big mess.


Keith; that's why I sent you those new links.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> Note to CHERRYVILLE CHUCK.
> 
> I had no idea where Cherryville was, so I just checked it out on Mr. Google (apologies to Neville here).
> 
> ...


I think it was Reimer that I bought some red oak from years ago. They were just south on the way to Rutland from Reid's Corner on the way into Kelowna. I haven't been back since then though not because I have anything against them. I got a decent deal from them at the time. I was a logger for many years and if I had some good white birch I could log I did so and then would get one of my neighbors to saw it for me. You have some of the very best white birch in this province around you and I'm sure you must also have sawmills close. (I'm guessing according to your description that you might be around Scotch Creek or Anglemont?) White birch should be as good a choice as most hardwoods for a drum, it's harder than red oak, somewhere on a par with maple I would say. I would think it would have as good tonal qualities as many other hardwoods at at a fraction of the price if you set up for it. If you want to travel to Cherryville you and I can cut and plane enough for a drum. I have enough to spare for small segments and it's been cut for 15 years or more so it should be relatively stable.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> Keith 1350 odd posts ago, I too came here to learn about Router Lathes, I have a big debt to the Forum and to Dick in IA, It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that no one Router Lathe will do every job you want done on a Router Lathe and some jobs are just too hard so I gave my latest Lathe a lot of thought before I started to make it, and I in fact also had to buy a Cue Lathe from the USA at considerable cost for some parts of my Cue Making as some problems could not be solved with a Router Lathe. You have to design and make it to do the job at hand, that's the facts, I have been thinking about your project and were I to do these drums then I would do things differently. I would stave the drum instead of segment it, I would make a Router Lathe to trim the staves to size, The good news for you is that your Router Lathe will work regardless of staves or segments, the cut is the same. I hope you used the best adhesive you could buy, Tightbond2/3 or Urea Formaldehyde type glues, My opinion also is that there is no reason why your drum cannot be made, and made again. My Niece is in Canada right now, I told her that Canadians are strange but also our lost cousins so she should be kind to them. N


Good morning Neville:

I must say that I have been called far worse than "strange" before, so I'm going to take that as a compliment. They don't call us Crazy Canucks for nothing!

You are definitely correct in that this lathe will serve only one purpose. If it weren't for the curve, then I think it could be adapted for more than just a single use.

The glue that I have is a two part white glue which can be used as a replacement for epoxy. It cleans up with soap and water, but only while it is wet. It is very nearly totally waterproof once it cures - which it does very quickly. The name on the five gallon bucket shows EKV-123, the rest of the info has worn off since I bought it.

Among other things, I made up a 45 foot long curved, laminated, red cedar hand rail outside on my house down on Ruxton Island, and that is still holding up. If I can find a photo I'll show you what that is like.

Back to the drum...using staves is the most recognized method of Conga building, and it is highly likely that I will eventually use this method to make one or more. About the same as making a wine barrel. In fact, there is a drum maker, Peter Mussel, who uses old barrels to procure his stock for drum making.

Most Conga makers using the stave method will either bandsaw their staves out of solid stock, which is a big waste of wood IMO, or steam bend the staves from flat stock...far less waste this way. They both end up working just the same of course, and in the final scheme of things that's what counts.

The other method of stave making, which I have not yet encountered, would be to laminate the staves individually. That might be my next approach, as I don't have any practical way to produce sufficient steam to bend staves with, regardless of any rumours you may have heard to the contrary! :no:


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; that's why I sent you those new links.


Good morning Dan. 

I have seen those guys listed before, it's just the price which scares the bejeebies out of me!

I think I will need to keep to something a little more refined! :smile:


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I think it was Reimer that I bought some red oak from years ago. They were just south on the way to Rutland from Reid's Corner on the way into Kelowna. I haven't been back since then though not because I have anything against them. I got a decent deal from them at the time. I was a logger for many years and if I had some good white birch I could log I did so and then would get one of my neighbors to saw it for me. You have some of the very best white birch in this province around you and I'm sure you must also have sawmills close. (I'm guessing according to your description that you might be around Scotch Creek or Anglemont?) White birch should be as good a choice as most hardwoods for a drum, it's harder than red oak, somewhere on a par with maple I would say. I would think it would have as good tonal qualities as many other hardwoods at at a fraction of the price if you set up for it. If you want to travel to Cherryville you and I can cut and plane enough for a drum. I have enough to spare for small segments and it's been cut for 15 years or more so it should be relatively stable.


Good morning Chuck:

I was pretty close to you yesterday...went down to Rock Creek to pick up a lathe. Actually, I was thinking about you when we went through Vernon on the way back home.

I have a lot here (Anglemont - good guess) which I started taking trees off last year. It's too bad that I didn't know in advance that I would be getting into trying drum making this year. Most of what I felled has been turned into firewood, but I think there could be a few logs left that haven't suffered from Husqvarna disease yet.

But perhaps better yet, my chum also has another lot here where I also felled many trees for him. There are some nice big birches on the ground that I could perhaps steal when he's not looking. His logs are much easier to access than mine. Of course I will have to wait until the snow is gone...perhaps by mid March this year.

I used to have a portable sawmill (Norwood) down on the coast, and there's a possibility that I may get a small one to use here. That way I could custom cut whatever I needed.

At the moment, the local sawyer, Dwayn over at Celista, is cutting cedar for us for the new siding on the house. I don't know what he would charge for cutting our own logs. 

Be careful what you offer me, I just might take you up on that! :grin:


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

If you decide to just let me know and I'll give you directions. It's very easy to find my place. Cherryville is about 50 minutes from Vernon and a lovely drive once you pass Lumby. 

I logged on a Small Business sale years ago a few kilometers up the Lee Creek road above the log dump. I've been to Scotch Creek a few times but never made it as far as Anglemont. I hear it's very nice there.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you decide to just let me know and I'll give you directions. It's very easy to find my place. Cherryville is about 50 minutes from Vernon and a lovely drive once you pass Lumby.
> 
> I logged on a Small Business sale years ago a few kilometers up the Lee Creek road above the log dump. I've been to Scotch Creek a few times but never made it as far as Anglemont. I hear it's very nice there.


If you were at Scotch Creek, just another 20 minute drive and you would be here.

The logging trucks still come by here every night and when I have to drive out to the highway at night I will often pass by maybe half a dozen of them in a 30 minute period. They seem to stay off the road in the daytime. I hear that there were too many complaints from the locals.

When you carry on to St. Ives, the logging road starts there and if you want to drive on it you need to be in radio contact with the company. If you're in the way of a logging truck - too bad for you. It's their road and their right of way.

I will PM you about a potential visit, and certainly a big thank you in advance.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

**Gloom"*



cocobolo1 said:


> Good morning Dan.
> 
> I have seen those guys listed before, it's just the price which scares the bejeebies out of me!
> 
> I think I will need to keep to something a little more refined! :smile:


And those are US prices...


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> Good morning Neville:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## BigJim (Sep 15, 2010)

Hey Keith, looks like you got a lot of great advice here, I am looking forward to seeing how the inside gets cut. 

BigJim


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

jiju1943 said:


> Hey Keith, looks like you got a lot of great advice here, I am looking forward to seeing how the inside gets cut.
> 
> BigJim


Jim I won't be able to say anything about cutting the inside of the segmented one, it will take a better brain than mine to work out how to do that. Now that it is glued up that is, staves are the only way. N


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Mrs. Stringer!*



neville9999 said:


> Jim I won't be able to say anything about cutting the inside of the segmented one, it will take a better brain than mine to work out how to do that. Now that it is glued up that is, staves are the only way. N


Check with Mike; maybe the lovely and talented Mrs. S is available to contract out the interior work. She apparently excels at working in tight spots. 

(Mind you a round trip ticket from Texas is going to cost a tich more than the budget allows.)


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Check with Mike; maybe the lovely and talented Mrs. S is available to contract out the interior work. She apparently excels at working in tight spots.
> 
> (Mind you a round trip ticket from Texas is going to cost a tich more than the budget allows.)


offer 1st class charter...


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> Check with Mike; maybe the lovely and talented Mrs. S is available to contract out the interior work. She apparently excels at working in tight spots.
> 
> (Mind you a round trip ticket from Texas is going to cost a tich more than the budget allows.)


I don't think it matters what happens to the inside of the segmented one, I would not spend any time doing anything about that, make the Lathe and get that set up so that you can router it finished, the lathe will work on stave drums just as good, I would seriously think about making laminated staves, its not that hard to do, you also have to make a jig to cut the angle on the staves, you have to make a assembly jig to put the drum together as two halves, once the halves are dry then fit the final joints and do the final glue up, the segmented drum does not matter, when you set out to make a new thing then who knows where you finally finish, its always unlikely that your first plan will be the final one. N


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

daninvan said:


> and those are us prices...


ouch!!!!!


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> I don't think it matters what happens to the inside of the segmented one, I would not spend any time doing anything about that, make the Lathe and get that set up so that you can router it finished, the lathe will work on stave drums just as good, I would seriously think about making laminated staves, its not that hard to do, you also have to make a jig to cut the angle on the staves, you have to make a assembly jig to put the drum together as two halves, once the halves are dry then fit the final joints and do the final glue up, the segmented drum does not matter, when you set out to make a new thing then who knows where you finally finish, its always unlikely that your first plan will be the final one. N


Neville, it is possible to do the glue up as a single operation, rather than needing to do two separate halves. Although with the glue that I have, the working time is extremely short.
What I had to do with the stave shells is to get the shell set up ready to glue, work for four minutes applying the glue and then clamping up the whole shell, regardless of whether or not all the staves were glued. 

Give that 10 minutes to tack up well, loosen the clamp and glue again for four more minutes, rinse and repeat until you are done.

That way the shell maintains its' shape all the while.

I found a pic from 5 years ago when I made the railing that I mentioned to you previously. It is still perfectly intact.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Keith...
you know your woodworking...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> cocobolo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Good morning Neville:
> ...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> Keith...
> you know your woodworking...


It must be all the practice I get from all the mistakes I make! >


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

jiju1943 said:


> Hey Keith, looks like you got a lot of great advice here, I am looking forward to seeing how the inside gets cut.
> 
> BigJim


Hi Jim:

Yes...these guys really know their stuff.

I don't think that the segmented "drum" will ever actually become a drum. Even if I were able to find a way to tidy up the inside, I'm pretty certain that red cedar, as glued up in this fashion, would not produce good results.

The inside could be turned by using a three wheel steady rest setup on the outside of one end of the drum. Still and all I think it would be pretty high risk. Val thinks it will make a great umbrella stand. :wink:


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I tend to think you are right about the cedar. Too soft. Someone a few months ago built a knock down harp so that it could be traveled with and I suspected that it wouldn't sound just right as the joints would tend kill the resonance of the frame and at the end I think it was admitted that it lacked that. The bodies of all stringed instruments use the wooden body for resonance. How much a drum does that I don't know but if there is a chance for for the choice of wood to create a dead sound then cedar probably would do it.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the large protuberances and depressions on the interior would play Hell with the acoustics as well; basically a recipe for deadening sound.
(Probably not lower the db level much but the reverberations would be ruined.)


----------



## homemadetools (Sep 2, 2015)

Jon here from HomemadeTools.net.

Thanks for the mention.









We have a couple of RouterForums homemade tools listed in our encyclopedia (fully credited to all builders, and this site, and directly linked multiple times). Can't yet post the urls, but we've listed a slot mortiser from tomrspears, and a split router fence from seawolf21. Let me know if we've missed any.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I tend to think you are right about the cedar. Too soft. Someone a few months ago built a knock down harp so that it could be traveled with and I suspected that it wouldn't sound just right as the joints would tend kill the resonance of the frame and at the end I think it was admitted that it lacked that. The bodies of all stringed instruments use the wooden body for resonance. How much a drum does that I don't know but if there is a chance for for the choice of wood to create a dead sound then cedar probably would do it.


Choice of wood has a huge impact on the sound of any drum.

If you get into discussions with top flight drummers or manufacturers, it's all about the wood.

There will never be agreement on what is best, because most of the woods have different characteristics when it comes to sound production. But woods like Birch, Maple, Bubinga, Ash, Mahogany and so on are traditional favourites for conga making.

This is not to say that other woods are not used, on the contrary, just about every type of wood has been used over the years, but the better sounding woods have always risen to the top as it were.

Just to remind everyone once again, this cedar sculpture was done purely as an exercise to see what pitfalls I would encounter with this type of segmented construction.

I still think that with a more suitable drum wood, Cherryville Chuck's Birch springs to mind immediately, that I can still produce a segmented drum design that will work.

I also happen to think that a cedar drum might work, but I'm not so sure if that would be the case with a segmented design. 

So I am in the process of ripping some thin cedar and planing it to just under 1/8" thick. Then I will make up laminated staves, probably 4 layers thick, and see how that turns out. I may need more layers than 4, I'll have to experiment with that part as well.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> I'm pretty sure the large protuberances and depressions on the interior would play Hell with the acoustics as well; basically a recipe for deadening sound.
> (Probably not lower the db level much but the reverberations would be ruined.)


You're probably right Dan, at least to a degree.

If you look inside a stave drum which was cut on a bandsaw, the insides are rough and not finished (usually). My first thought when I saw that was that surely this must have a major impact on the sound.

These drums are often 3/4"+ thick, and with that volume of wood I had to wonder just how much resonance there would be. With the thickness of the staves varying as they inevitably would, surely the effect would be detrimental to the sound.

The rough wood must surely absorb a considerable amount of the sound that you would hope exits the drum. That's something I hope to test for later on down the road.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Here's one of the birches that I took out at my friend's lot. I think this one was in good shape, but so many of them here seem to suffer an early demise from some sort of rot.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Mmmmm....firewood!!! 
I love burning Birch; lovely flame colour.
Almost identical BTU value as D. Fir.

Wood Heating - Forestry - forestry.usu.edu


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

cocobolo1 said:


> k.
> 
> I also happen to think that a cedar drum might work, but I'm not so sure if that would be the case with a segmented design.
> 
> So I am in the process of ripping some thin cedar and planing it to just under 1/8" thick. Then I will make up laminated staves, probably 4 layers thick, and see how that turns out. I may need more layers than 4, I'll have to experiment with that part as well.


I participate in traditional archery and was told for quite a while that red cedar would not make arrows as it is not stiff enough. I thought that might be wrong so I made some and was able to get arrows for up to a 63 lb bow. The trick was to to take a slab of very straight grained cedar and I ran it over my jointer holding one end up until I had the side running perfectly parallel to the grain. This is why others couldn't make it work I suspect. Cedar might work reasonably well, as it is springy, if you can follow the grain and it will bend fairly well in that case too. Primitive traditional bows are made the same way, i.e. following the grain and being careful not to cross it. I know of some primitive bows that have been shot for years and are still holding together.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Mmmmm....firewood!!!
> I love burning Birch; lovely flame colour.
> Almost identical BTU value as D. Fir.
> 
> Wood Heating - Forestry - forestry.usu.edu


I think we have about an even split of birch, doug fir and cedar here. In future I'm going to be keeping my eye out for any decent birches.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I participate in traditional archery and was told for quite a while that red cedar would not make arrows as it is not stiff enough. I thought that might be wrong so I made some and was able to get arrows for up to a 63 lb bow. The trick was to to take a slab of very straight grained cedar and I ran it over my jointer holding one end up until I had the side running perfectly parallel to the grain. This is why others couldn't make it work I suspect. Cedar might work reasonably well, as it is springy, if you can follow the grain and it will bend fairly well in that case too. Primitive traditional bows are made the same way, i.e. following the grain and being careful not to cross it. I know of some primitive bows that have been shot for years and are still holding together.


When I lived on the island, where I had my sawmill set up, I used to grab my logs out of the saltchuck. I nicknamed it Ocean Lumber Supply.

I used to get hemlock, doug fir, red and yellow cedar, sitka spruce, occasionally arbutus and other logs rarely.

Every January, on the first big tide of the year was when many logs would be lifted off the higher beaches and float free. This was always the best collecting of the year. I would look for chunks of red cedar particularly, which more often than not were old growth. Now we all know that is rare as hen's teeth now, so such a find was always very welcome.

If you compare old growth to the second or third growth cedar, you will be well aware that there simply is no comparison whatsoever. It is from these old growth pieces, many of which would be over 20 feet in length, that you get the really nice wood. Growth rings often in the 30+ to the inch range, truly beautiful wood. 

Now there's some wood that would make not only dead straight arrows, but lovely drums as well. Shame I don't have anything like that here. But I did make that railing from O.G. cedar, both red and yellow.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's certainly not as easy to find as it once was but there may still be a bit around. There was a fire that went through here around 100 years ago now I think it was and it killed quite a few cedars in the 30-36" range and the fire also case hardened the wood. Some of it made great shakes and split posts and rails and it would be the best. There is still the odd one that is green that has a decent shell and good straight grain which might do it with a little drying time. If you know any loggers in the area strike up a conversation with them and see what they know.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> It's certainly not as easy to find as it once was but there may still be a bit around. There was a fire that went through here around 100 years ago now I think it was and it killed quite a few cedars in the 30-36" range and the fire also case hardened the wood. Some of it made great shakes and split posts and rails and it would be the best. There is still the odd one that is green that has a decent shell and good straight grain which might do it with a little drying time. If you know any loggers in the area strike up a conversation with them and see what they know.


I haven't met any loggers yet, but I expect that Dwayn over at Celista, the local sawmill guy, would know of a few.

I did ask what he's paying for a meter of cedar and currently it is only $120. Obviously that's not old growth, just this weeks growth!

One of my Ruxton neighbours, Danny, who carves bears for a living, gets his O.G. cedar in big chunks from someone on Vancouver island. He pays $800 a meter for what he wants! A tad pricey. But his bears go for $300 up to $1,000 a pop.


----------



## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

DaninVan said:


> I'm pretty sure the large protuberances and depressions on the interior would play Hell with the acoustics as well; basically a recipe for deadening sound.
> (Probably not lower the db level much but the reverberations would be ruined.)


Dan I also was thinking about that, think that only tried and proved methods and materials would work and create the correct drum. N


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Most mills don't want anything to do with big old cedar because it is slow sawing. Most is hollow, especially the bottom part that you and I would want. Lots of it gets bucked off and pushed off into the landing debris pile and burned unless it has enough meat on it for shakes. You might be able to get some like that cheap if you know where to go to get it or you can bribe a logger to throw some in his pickup. There isn't supposed to be any logging traffic on FS roads on the weekends so that the public can use them. This isn't always written in stone. It still doesn't hurt to have a radio.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

neville9999 said:


> Dan I also was thinking about that, think that only tried and proved methods and materials would work and create the correct drum. N


O ye of little faith...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> There isn't supposed to be any logging traffic on FS roads on the weekends so that the public can use them. This isn't always written in stone. It still doesn't hurt to have a radio.


I wasn't aware of that Charles. To be perfectly honest, I haven't paid attention as to the days of the week that the trucks run.

There is a posted notice towards the bottom of our road giving the dates of operation of these logging trucks. I think it runs until the end of March if I remember correctly.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Starting to work on the setup to make the two curved rails for the lathe.

I have a slightly different curve drawn out for the purpose and I will be getting this setup ready to go asap.

This is just a dry run here...tomorrow I will start on the glue up.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

that's well thought out...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> that's well thought out...


Thanks Stick. I don't have the bandsaw re-assembled yet that I got given late last year, otherwise I might have tried to make a pair of cauls somewhat wider. Must remember to buy a couple of blades for the beast next time I go into town It's a 225 kilometre round trip every time, so I don't go in that often.

So I will see how this system goes in the meantime. At least this way the shape is pretty much bang on.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Block alignment*

I decided that it might be a half decent idea to glue a strip of wood to the back side of the blocks. That should keep them all firmly in line. I couldn't see any downside to it.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Next I added the first five strips in a low-high-low-high-low configuration. Sort of like a T & G joint on steroids. 

The eventual height of this piece will be 4". My table saw doesn't make it that high, therefore the two stage glue-up.

There will be many more pieces added, but the short working time of the glue only allows for a few at a time.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I have a slew of other things I'm trying to get done, but one thing I needed to get going on is the laminations for the next version of this drum.

To that end I spent an awful lot of time cutting about 200 pieces for the job. I would like to end up with 1/8" thick pieces, although that's not exactly cast in stone.

Since then, I think that if I use a 1/4" thick lamination on the outside of each stave, it might look better when it comes to getting turned down on the router lathe. I'll need to do an actual measurement of that to see if it will work or not.

It's taking four passes through the planer to get the wood just about perfect. Talk about boring as hell.

Every once in awhile, the planer will catch a piece of cross grain and there goes another one.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I wonder if your drum body could be done in a spiral...
that'd be different


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I wonder if your drum body could be done in a spiral...
> that'd be different


Hmmmmm...food for thought. 

It wouldn't be that difficult to make a spiral jig for a router, but the compound curve might throw a spanner into the works.

Possibly the best way to do that would be with rasps and sanders???


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Hmmmmm...food for thought.
> 
> It wouldn't be that difficult to make a spiral jig for a router, but the compound curve might throw a spanner into the works.
> 
> Possibly the best way to do that would be with rasps and sanders???


I was thinking in terms of a veneer lay up but do it in a spiral...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I was thinking in terms of a veneer lay up but do it in a spiral...


Isn't that interesting.

I was sitting here contemplating your post and had exactly the same idea.

More complications....


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

A couple of times every day I have been adding more pieces to the first rail for the router lathe.

I'm now up to 4" high at the side, which is the bottom in the pic here. I only have maybe two clamps which have a 4"+ throat, and it should go without saying that they are nowhere to be seen.

So I Jury rigged these wood blocks and clamped them with the 8" bar clamps. Seems to work OK.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

All those thin laminations are going to need a very special caul/clamping setup.

What I am aiming for is a setup that will clamp the laminations perfectly, while at the same time allow me to run each laminated stave through the planer, WHILE it is still in the clamp.

I think I just about have most of the details figured out for that one, but as usual, the proof will be in the pudding.

I have cut out most of the pieces for the first side and glue up is now underway.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

In the last photo in post #88, you will see that I am ripping a tapered piece.

When I was laying out for the stave cauls, I very carefully made the top and bottom setbacks identical. As soon as I had done that, i realised that this would not be anywhere near the right shape. It would be a very skinny drum.

Now, the setup for this drum I want to be about 12" at the top and 7" at the bottom. A small difference either way won't matter.

So this tapered piece is to make that adjustment.

I thought I had taken some pics of all this going together, but it seems that's not the case. Tomorrow for that.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Planing jig testing*

The pieces for the jig have been glued together in pairs ready for testing.

So I clamped up a test stave out of 7 pieces of wood to see what it looks like. In contrast to bending the 1/4" cedar, this stuff is like spaghetti. That's the good part.

I put all the pieces in order, did a dry run and something didn't look right.

It seems that I have to think in terms of a mirror image here, which is quite opposite to what logic tells me.

The bottom end of the staves will need to be cut narrower than the top end, that's because the drum will be smaller at the bottom than the top.

I haven't done the exact math on that yet, just one of many shortcomings so far. Obviously that has to be next.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Still not right*

Next I added another piece to what will be the inside of the jig. 

That still isn't right...must remember the mirror image thing. Notice that I flipped the extra piece end for end, but that wasn't it. Adding anything to that side will have no effect at all. It's the OTHER side where I will need to do the adjusting.

I came to that conclusion after staring at the pictures on the computer for several minutes.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Well, all righty then. I pulled that piece off and added a tapered piece to the outside of the jig.

I think I'm getting closer now, but it's still not right. Good thing this wood is cheap.

Next move will be to cut off some of the wood on the inside of the curve. That will save some planing time when I get to that part.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Not again!*

Once again I am looking at this picture, and I know that I have to add a strip of wood to the underside of the jig with a 7 1/2º taper on it. Why? Well, with 24 staves, that's an average of 15º each, divide by 2 for each side and there's the 7 1/2º. 

OK, so that's simple enough.

I have a test piece sitting under the jig, and it's beginning to get much closer now.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

*Here we go again!*

Wouldn't you know it...the test strip runs right below where the lamination glue up will go.

OK, not so bad...I will just have to glue the whole shebang to a sheet of plywood and use plastic film to prevent everything being glued up into one unidentifiable mass.

Now it's a matter of doing the math to get the total amount of taper right on the money. Back to the calculator.


----------



## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Looking forward to the finished product.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> Looking forward to the finished product.


You're not the only one Vince.

And all this just to make a stave! Getting closer by the minute.


----------



## BigJim (Sep 15, 2010)

Keith, if the top of the drum is small then gets larger toward the middle then tapers off to smaller yet at the bottom, won't the staves have to be narrow at the top, wider at the middle, and even smaller at the bottom instead of just being a straight taper. Maybe I am not seeing this like it actually is.


----------



## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Is there any info in here that might help?
Cooperage: The Ancient Art of Barrel Making - Wooden Barrel Warehouse


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

BigJim said:


> Keith, if the top of the drum is small then gets larger toward the middle then tapers off to smaller yet at the bottom, won't the staves have to be narrow at the top, wider at the middle, and even smaller at the bottom instead of just being a straight taper. Maybe I am not seeing this like it actually is.


Yes, that is exactly correct.

By tilting the jig at an angle, (7.5º in this case) and providing that I get both ends at the precise distance I need, then the jig should do this automatically.

I have just finished the math for all this down to 1,000th of a millimetre, not that I will be getting anywhere near that close. The math part is easy, the practical, maybe not so much.

I also think that this jig will allow me to make drums of a different size by altering the width of each stave, but leaving the cut angle at 7.5º.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Is there any info in here that might help?
> Cooperage: The Ancient Art of Barrel Making - Wooden Barrel Warehouse


Dan, when I was kid growing up in England, we had a field trip to a cooperage.

That has to be back breaking work, but really interesting if you like that sort of stuff. Some real artistry to that work.

Great videos. Thanks.


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Looking forward to the finished product.


you and me both...
got really admire Keith's brain trust...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Yes, that is exactly correct.
> 
> By tilting the jig at an angle, (7.5º in this case) and providing that I get both ends at the precise distance I need, then the jig should do this automatically.
> 
> ...


I see what you are doing and why...
how about height??? do the drums change in height a lot or stay in at/in particular range...


----------



## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Is there any info in here that might help?
> Cooperage: The Ancient Art of Barrel Making - Wooden Barrel Warehouse


really enjoyed your link Dan..
thanks...


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Stick486 said:


> I see what you are doing and why...
> how about height??? do the drums change in height a lot or stay in at/in particular range...


There is a particular height for a Conga, which is 30". Occasionally, they may be slightly lower at 28", and rarely you may find an older original Cuban Conga a little higher. This is a good playing height when sitting. For playing standing up, the congas will be put into a stand to elevate them somewhat.

This jig will allow me to make a stave up to about 34", the main purpose for which will allow me to trim off either end as necessary. Although I have cut most of the laminating wood at either 30" exactly, or 36".

It is common to add a ring on the bottom of the drum for protection, so you can adjust the height a little that way.


----------



## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

I was cutting one of the cauls yesterday and the saw gave me one helluva smoke show. I thought I was at the drag races.

Now this was the blade that I hit that drill bit with, so I was expecting damage.

There wasn't any...strange. But when I examined the teeth with a 10X loupe, I couldn't believe the varnish buildup on the teeth. No wonder it was smokey.

So I scraped most of it off and then used my favourite cleaner to wipe it clean.

The stuff I use is a 50 - 50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. Give it a good shake and spray it on. I read about this stuff on a metalworking site a few years back. For loosening stuck threads it can't be beat. Works for blade cleaning as well.


----------

