# Mounting router at an angle



## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Hi,

I am interested to know if there is an easy way to mount a table router so that the potruding bit is at an angle. Perhaps by placing some washers on the mounting screws on one side. If there is a specific model where this can be done easier than other models, I'd like to know.

To give some background on my use case, I need to cut some staves so I can make a drumshell, kinda like a wood barrel. The wood stave edges need to be at a very specific angle. For example for a 16 stave drum shell,the angle needs to be 11.25 degrees . . . . so that 16 * 2 * 11.25 = 360 degrees, i.e. my round drum shell . . . . of course in deer need of lathing at that point. For a 24 stave drum, 7.5 degrees . . . etc etc

I plan to buy a Beal Tilt Box to get my incline right.

Any help is appreciated. I know that a table saw would work well in this case, but I want to stay away from table saws.

. . . of and hi everyone . . . this is my first post and I've never held a router in my hands, but I do my best at following directions :help:

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Why do you want to stay away from table saw? Would work good for what you want to do. Sommerfeld Tools has a bit set that might be what you want if you want to use router. It's on page 5 of their bit sets. Use these with Router table & fence. Not freehand. Here's a link below. There are other brands as well. I don't know how thick your stock is but some of the trim routers have a tilt base available such as the Bosch Colt & the Porter Cable. If it is a straight piece of wood with no joint just an angled straight cut I would look into a table saw. Fast & efficient.

Router Bit Sets-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Instead of trying to tilt the router why not make a wedge the exact angle you want and clamp it to the table? Now all you have to do is run the piece by the bit on the wedge and you have your exact angle. Once you have the wedge you don't have to worry about resetting the angle all the time.


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Oh, table saw . . . . it's a funny story. My brother-in-law is a doctor. I get to hear a lot of stories of people coming in with table saw accident injuries. Some are minor, some are pretty bad, and he doesn't even get to see the disaster cases that are carried by ambulance straight into emergency room. I just ended up being very reluctant to get a table saw.

As far as what I use, it will be solid woodfloor, mostly mahogany. It's good, clean starting material. 3" wide, 3/4 deep is what I am looking at . . . . most staves will end up being 2" to 2 1/2" wide, anywhere from 4" to 30" long, most probably 7.5 degree edge (more like 82.5 degrees . . )

I will look into making some wedges . . . there is just no end to these angles.

Thanks for the advice!

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

True the tablesaw can be a dangerous tool but so can the router with a spinning bit if not carefull. I knew someone that plugged in the router while holding it against his stomach. The switch was on. It didn't leave to clean of an edge. This was someone who uses a router often. There is some danger to any power tool. Just keep alert & aware while using them.

There are sets of bits that do what you are asking. They route a birdsmouth profile.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello and welcome to the RouterForums Cosmin.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi James

You can mount Bosch Colt upside down in your router table and use it for any angle (0 to 45 deg.) you want to use it on, I have one mounted in a small table just for small jobs like that.

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/4883-small-router-table.html

Router Forums

I should note,,you can get LONG 1/4" shank bits up to 4" long, with or without bearing on them..the ones I have are 3/8" diam. cutters

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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

wm_crash said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> To give some background on my use case, I need to cut some staves so I can make a drumshell, kinda like a wood barrel. The wood stave edges need to be at a very specific angle. For example for a 16 stave drum shell,the angle needs to be 11.25 degrees . . . . so that 16 * 2 * 11.25 = 360 degrees, i.e. my round drum shell . . . . of course in deer need of lathing at that point. For a 24 stave drum, 7.5 degrees . . . etc etc
> ...


Hi Bill

Wouldn't you find it easier just to use cutters with specific angles?

Elite do them.

Caterogy : Router Bit Set 
# Product : 81-005C 
Resume : 5 PC Chamfer Router Bit Set ½" Shank 
Description : 
Shank 1/2
This router bit set will allow to create uniform chamfer and add character to edges on any work piece.

5 router bits in attractive aluminum case:

Angle : 11.25°, 15°, 22.5°, 30°, 45°,4, 8, 12 or 18 sides
Price : 29.24 $

Cheers

Peter


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

I think the Bosch Colt is the closest to what I am looking for. With a 4" long bit, I can cut for any drum shell thickness that may be required.

I have seen the elite chamfer router bits, but I have some use for not-so-standard angles and that's why I was leaning towards a configurable tilt mechanism.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions!! I am really glad I found this place 

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Welcome, Cosmin, I am glad you found us also. There is great information from knowledgeable people. most of them like to share information. So, Welcome: will hope to be able to talk again. Would like to see the finished stave , or shell you complete. Stay warm, and enjoy a blessed holiday.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

wm_crash said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am interested to know if there is an easy way to mount a table router so that the potruding bit is at an angle.
> 
> this is my first post and I've never held a router in my hands, but I do my best at following directions :help:


 
Welcome to the router forums 

Your best option is this: Router Workshop: bevelfence

Bits with the proper angles cut in them are your second choice.

Doing as Bj suggested is a 3rd option but, questionable with the use of a 1/4" 4in long bit. You need to take heed about how much of a "bite" you take with this bit. 

Please, think safety here.


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

That makes sense. I am planning to work very slowly, and at least until I gain some experience. I will be using mostly soft woods like poplar and mahogany, and just maybe some bubinga. Bubinga has very good reputation with respect to resonant qualities.

This was my first attempt, but somehow I messed up by a few mm on the width of each stave. My intentions of making an 8" drum shell are out the window with that:










cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Well, that was about 6 months ago and this is now. It takes a long time to shave staves with a router. I have since bought a table $aw, but still had to complete the cut with the router because I didn't want to change the process midway, but the saw will make things easy for next projects.

Staves all cut up and nicely sanded:










to be continued below:


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

. . . . I had to break up the post in two because there was an advertising placed right on top of the message.

So here is ther result: three stave shells waiting to be rounded. One's 100% oak, one is 100% poplar, and one is 50/50 oak poplar. This is just a loose dry fit. I will glue them today and then round them off later.











Many thanks to everyone who helped me in this thread and other threads as well.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## newwoodworker (Mar 27, 2009)

Couldn't this be achieved with a compound miter saw? with a stop block or some sort of jig for repetition and i would assume a lot safer with such small pieces?


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

I started with 3/4" x 3" x 6'; I first routed the angles along the 6' sides, and then cut them on the miter saw to appropriate length. The small pieces were only produced at the end.

People have tried to use a miter saw for the whole process, but I am not aware of any finished product. The main problem with mitre saws is that you need to have the staves along the grain. You'd need some good clamping to use a miter saw for cutting angles on the sides on thin staves.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## larry t (Sep 8, 2007)

I would suggest a wedge block on the router table-much easier than tilting base. I've used this method for raised panels and it works well just need a lot of passes to finish depth. Also would recommend a TS they're no more dangerous than a router at 20000 plus rpm they can really throw a board a long way. Just my 2 cents worth


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi all
That is a job for my router 
You can see it at this adress:

http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Techniques/clic.php3?url=Docs/Sante_Defonceuse_Inclinable.pdf

Cheers
Daniel


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Cosmin - Good job:sold:
I doubt the table saw could give you the glue line you need. Could probably rough them out on the saw and smooth them up with your router setup.


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## 3efingers (Dec 21, 2006)

I agree with Curious George, it is excatly what I did and it works great.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Cosmin:



wm_crash said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am interested to know if there is an easy way to mount a table router so that the potruding bit is at an angle. Perhaps by placing some washers on the mounting screws on one side. If there is a specific model where this can be done easier than other models, I'd like to know.


You'll find that the table saw is your best bet, especially since you'll be working different angles for every drum. There are several drum makers here so look for their suggestions. Left tilt saws would be better.

However, if you chose to explore the router question further, you will find the Angle-ease from WoodHaven to meet your requirements. However, if you want the upscale version of that, you can make one following plans from Santé in Belgium. He has a plunge version which is far more versatile than WoodHaven's. 



> Any help is appreciated. I know that a table saw would work well in this case, but I want to stay away from table saws.


Fear breeds caution. You think a router is less terrifying -- it scares the hell out of me every time I turn it on and I've got a collection of them. However, education will mitigate fear but don't let it make you complacent.

Good Luck


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## HDS (Jun 3, 2009)

Hi Cosmin,
have you considered testing your own ingenuity and building your own tilting Jig.
I've seen vertical mounted jigs which could easily be adapted to incorporate tilting of the router.
When I built my router table I put in T slot tracks with this kind of addition in mind.
If you're not quite sure and you'd like to test out your design in 3d on your computer rather than ending up with a binfull of scrap MDF. There's a fantastic 3D software available free from Google. It's called google sketch7. Not only can you draw in 3D, you can dimension all vital measurements angles, diameters etc.
The best thing about Google sketch is the online tuition videos, you can astound yourself with what you can achieve within an hour.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

" tilting Jig " Or you can just buy one quick and easy 

Amazon.com: Bosch PR005 Tilt Base for Bosch Colt Palm Routers: Home Improvement

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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Well, I already bought into the table saw deal. But as far as Bosch Colt, you go through a lot of wood until you have that angle set to within a tenth of a degree. I have not found a way to simply measure the tilt. I can only measure angle of a cut.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

wm_crash said:


> Well, I already bought into the table saw deal. But as far as Bosch Colt, you go through a lot of wood until you have that angle set to within a tenth of a degree. I have not found a way to simply measure the tilt. I can only measure angle of a cut.
> 
> cheers,
> wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


Hold on Cosmin:

If you're looking for that close a tolerance, look at this:

leevalley.com item SKU 44J24.00

It is a "Tilt Box Digital Inclinometer for Tool Setting." They are available most anywhere. A bit pricey but in your situation it may be well worth the expense.

If you've not used a table saw before, go to your local industrial arts teacher in the nearby high school and have him walk you through their safe use.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cosmin

You don't need a high end gauge, you can make your own quick setup blocks out of MDF stock..

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wm_crash said:


> Well, I already bought into the table saw deal. But as far as Bosch Colt, you go through a lot of wood until you have that angle set to within a tenth of a degree. I have not found a way to simply measure the tilt. I can only measure angle of a cut.
> 
> cheers,
> wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## dermer2002 (May 29, 2010)

They still have Industrial Arts in high school?!!? I figured liability issues did away with that. BTW, I have that Lee Valley tilt meter and it nails 45 degrees on my table saw. great miters with a cut-off jig.


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Fair enough, I have one of those. It works magic on my miter saw. The problem is, how do you use it on the Bosch Colt tilt base? I tried many ways, and I was always off. In the end, I got some square dowels from Lowes and cut and adjusted and cut and adjusted (repeat that many times) until I got the tilt base angle the way I wanted it.

I think I have discovered the key to perfect fit staves though. The tolerance on these things is very low . . . take for example my 24 stave shell . . . there are 48 cuts involved. let's say I am 0.05 degrees off on each cut . . . thats 2.4 degrees overall. That is considered poor work.

My approach for next time will be to purposely overcut some staves, purposely undercut some staves, and then make most of them "exact" cut. Once I get to the dry fit phase, I will have to mix and match to get proper fit depending how exact the exact cuts will be. There will be leftovers but it's ok.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi,
You can make à tilt base yourself (I maked 3 , 2in wood and 1 in aluminium)
All instruction at this adress:
http://www.lescopeaux.asso.fr/Techniques/clic.php3?url=Docs/Sante_Defonceuse_Inclinable.pdf


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Sante,

I have read all your design article from start to end (yes, in French). It looks more solid than the Colt base. But the main issue I have with tilting mechanisms is the lack of micro-adjustments.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## Santé (Jan 14, 2010)

wm_crash said:


> Sante,
> 
> I have read all your design article from start to end (yes, in French). It looks more solid than the Colt base. But the main issue I have with tilting mechanisms is the lack of micro-adjustments.
> 
> ...


(yes, in French). Félicitation !
On the aluminium one, there are graduations in degrees but not a micro-adjustments

Cheers
Daniel


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

wm_crash said:


> Sante,
> 
> I have read all your design article from start to end (yes, in French). It looks more solid than the Colt base. But the main issue I have with tilting mechanisms is the lack of micro-adjustments.
> 
> ...


Cosmin:

You have to remember, when you make something you can add anything that you wish. Alternatively, get a digital protractor like this one (LeeValley 88N99.00) and use that for your setups. 

However, you must remember that wood is not that accurate. One day you can do a cut and it's perfect. Come out the next day and the humidity changed during the night and screwed the whole thing up. I think if you can get within a degree of what you need that will be excellent.

Talk to GalTurner in this forum. She makes segmented turnings but on a much finer scale thus her angles will be much more critical. She may have some suggestions of how to "repair" discrepancies or avoid them.

Are you going to glue your segments or hold them in place with bands like old barrels (and drums) were done? The difficulty with those segments were the reason drums started to be made of steamed veneer. Too heavy and too much skill required to make them.


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

Howdy,

I have glued the staves with Titebond III and held them in place with long tie wraps for 24 hrs. I will take photos later.

From my readings, it's the ideal glue for this type of situations. Rings are sometimes used in drums but only when the shell thickness is very thin (like 1/4" and less). They are glued on the inside at top and bottom of the shell and only serve the purpose to provide some rigid support for the roundedness of the shell.

I hope early next week to take some photos of the "rounding off" process.

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

Once you setup a RAS with a router it can be used in just about any angle you want to set it for..  just like a over head pin router or a shaper..

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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

I've been following this thread more from an informational/educational standpoint as I have no burning desire to start making drums. Got to wondering though, with that number of staves and relatively small angles to deal with, wouldn't a canoe type joint work just as well without dealing with angles at all?


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Cosmin:



wm_crash said:


> From my readings, it's the ideal glue for this type of situations. Rings are sometimes used in drums but only when the shell thickness is very thin (like 1/4" and less). They are glued on the inside at top and bottom of the shell and only serve the purpose to provide some rigid support for the roundedness of the shell.


Oops, wrong rings. Go back into history when drums were made like barrels. As part of holding everything in place, they would use iron rings on the "outside" just like barrel rings. This would ensure roundness up to the point they added wet heads and let them shrink. The heads would hold the staves in place until a head broke, then you started all over. The rope would also contribute to holding everything together. I used to play a parade drum in the 50s that had to be "walked" to tighten.

When the plastic heads and steel screws came out, we were in awe. I bought a brass "Carleton Super Sensitive Double Snare." I've still got it.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

wm_crash said:


> The problem is, how do you use it on the Bosch Colt tilt base?


Don't use it on the base, use it on the bit. I notice you have a rather long bit in the colt, use the meter on the body of the router bit. That should be as accurate as you can get.

Alternative: mount your router into a table and shim the fence side of the base to set your bit a 2.5 degrees (sorry, I can't remember the exact angle you need.) Bury the top of the bit into the fence so just the amount of the bit you need is exposed.

Hmmm, lots of ideas, too little time for experimentation. Research will make your products better and this is pure research.


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## wm_crash (Nov 30, 2009)

There is at least one other builder who has tried the canoe joint approach. I can't comment on the exact reason why he just wasn't happy with it. One additional thing with canoe joints is that they don't naturally "fall in place" so you can't just strap them and get a nice polygon. There is a need for support from inside the shell . . . as simple as two MDF circles held some distance apartwith bolts and nuts, but still that's some additional stuff.

As far as the RAS goes, I am afraid to ask how much that thingie costs to set up. I'm trying also to limit myself to only taking up a one car garage. So a few big boy tools just won't make it.

I know a guy who is using a jointer with a fence tilted inwards to get his angles cut, an idea a bit similar to Ron's shimming the fence. It's working out for him, though at times, his staves have inconsistent width. 

Here are a few stave shell making videos I keep drooling over:

YouTube - B.C.W. Solid Wood Drums video 2 shop work

YouTube - How To Make Mahogany Stave Drums

YouTube - How to Make "Les Paul Jr." Snare Drum

YouTube - How to make Wood Hoops for 13 inches snare drum.wmv

And here's the Poor Man's Lathe:

YouTube - Rounding off a birch stave snare

cheers,
wm_crash, the friendly hooligan


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI

"I am afraid to ask how much that thingie costs to set up"

If you have a RAS it's about 6.oo bucks to make the router bracket 
Just by picking up some big flat washers and weld them up..

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wm_crash said:


> There is at least one other builder who has tried the canoe joint approach. I can't comment on the exact reason why he just wasn't happy with it. One additional thing with canoe joints is that they don't naturally "fall in place" so you can't just strap them and get a nice polygon. There is a need for support from inside the shell . . . as simple as two MDF circles held some distance apartwith bolts and nuts, but still that's some additional stuff.
> 
> As far as the RAS goes, I am afraid to ask how much that thingie costs to set up. I'm trying also to limit myself to only taking up a one car garage. So a few big boy tools just won't make it.
> 
> ...


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

As for the RAS, if you watch Craigslist closely you should see some working models for $100 and I've seen one with a burned out motor for free. Oh for a large shop! 

Can't have too much shop space!


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## almosta7ftr (Jul 29, 2010)

Hello Crash, and everyone else. I'm a new poster, but I've made my share of sawdust over the last 25 years or so. I've only been bit once, and that was a table mounted router. 15 stitches in the tip of my index finger fixed it, so I was lucky.
The router has proven to be one of my most used tools but I have found that I am safest when using the right tool for the task. 
My first choice for your project would be the saw, then maybe the joiner, but the idea of coming up with a cool wedge type jig for the router seems sound as well. 
Either way, sounds like an interesting project. Good luck!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Just one more way to setup for the angle on the router table or the Horz.table setup and the real router motors.


Woodhaven 1472 Angle-Ease
Woodhaven - Woodworking Tools, Supply & Equipment

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## dougop (Jul 2, 2010)

the idea of using a wedge on top of the table is better than mounting your router at an angle ! If you mount the machine at an angle, you will lose considerable height of cut...


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