# Houston , we have a problem !



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

*Not sure how to install Incra router plate*

My Incra plate showed up and I also ordered the part for underneath, but I'm not understanding how to go about installing this . 
I did read the thread on installing a router plate but IMO Incra's router plate looks like it has larger than normal radiuses on there corners ,so I'm not seeing how I'm going to use my router to make that particular radius as it's to big for any bit I'm aware of . I suspect I'm going to need Incra's mdf router plate jig which I see is available , but of course not on amazon .ca.
There are no instructions for mounting the plate and I'm not sure if I cut all the threw the table so that the router plate sits on the mdf dust thing or not ? 
Anyone else use the Incra plate . 
This is going in the extension wing of my TS you see below the plate in the photo .
I am going to build a separate router table in the near future but this is for my PC690 to use for big stuff . Can't have to many routers IMO


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

It is fairly easy to make your own template. Put a 1/4" straight bit in your router, with a 3/4" guide bushing. Double stick tape your plate to a 1/2" thick piece of MDF or Plywood. Make sure that piece is sufficiently bigger then the plate. Keep the busing solid against the plate as you router around the plate. Do this in 2 or 3 passes, until you are all the way through. The frame you just made is your template, using the same router setup you used to make it.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

NiceG316 said:


> It is fairly easy to make your own template. Put a 1/4" straight bit in your router, with a 3/4" guide bushing. Double stick tape your plate to a 1/2" thick piece of MDF or Plywood. Make sure that piece is sufficiently bigger then the plate. Keep the busing solid against the plate as you router around the plate. Do this in 2 or 3 passes, until you are all the way through. The frame you just made is your template, using the same router setup you used to make it.


Thank you . I never thought about using a bushing as I've never used them before . Hopefully I can find them here in town for my PC690


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

You should have no trouble finding bushings for your PC router. The PC style bushings are very common.


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## DarrenWK (Jul 2, 2013)

NiceG316 said:


> It is fairly easy to make your own template. Put a 1/4" straight bit in your router, with a 3/4" guide bushing. Double stick tape your plate to a 1/2" thick piece of MDF or Plywood. Make sure that piece is sufficiently bigger then the plate. Keep the busing solid against the plate as you router around the plate. Do this in 2 or 3 passes, until you are all the way through. The frame you just made is your template, using the same router setup you used to make it.


I wish I read this advice a few months ago. This seems so intuitive, I can't believe I didn't think of it.


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## jemangin (Oct 23, 2013)

You can get the bushings and collar with set screw to hold the bushing on your 1/4" straight bit at lee valley.


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## mikelley (Aug 2, 2012)

jemangin said:


> You can get the bushings and collar with set screw to hold the bushing on your 1/4" straight bit at lee valley.


Bushing, collar on 1/4" straight bit? I'm confused.


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

mikelley said:


> Bushing, collar on 1/4" straight bit? I'm confused.


Bearings go on the bit. Bushings attach to the router plate. I'm reading the suggestion as using a bushing attached to the plate as a guide to create a template to route the hole in the table. This way allows use of the bushing/bit for both processes. Essentially, being able to create this:

http://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_Router_Table_Routing_Template_p/instemp.htm


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes I was thinking the same thing . After you cut out the template you use it to make another inside copy using the same bushing so it ends up being the original size . It should cut out a hole exactly the same size as the plate in theory . Seems easy now that someone has told me lol

I would just hit the easy button but the template isn't available on amazon.ca


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

NiceG316 said:


> It is fairly easy to make your own template. Put a 1/4" straight bit in your router, with a 3/4" guide bushing. Double stick tape your plate to a 1/2" thick piece of MDF or Plywood. Make sure that piece is sufficiently bigger then the plate. Keep the busing solid against the plate as you router around the plate. Do this in 2 or 3 passes, until you are all the way through. The frame you just made is your template, using the same router setup you used to make it.


That's the best method I have seen for cutting the hole for the plate. Seems so simple.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes I was thinking the same thing . After you cut out the template you use it to make another inside copy using the same bushing so it ends up being the original size . It should cut out a hole exactly the same size as the plate in theory . Seems easy now that someone has told me lol
> 
> I would just hit the easy button but the template isn't available on amazon.ca


I think the only issue would be being careful of the router bit not staying tight to the plate .
As it was stated , do multiple passes

And I forgot to buy those brass bushings today


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## 94781 (Apr 24, 2013)

MT Stringer said:


> That's the best method I have seen for cutting the hole for the plate. Seems so simple.


One important point, this method requires the use of a plunge router.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DoItMyselfToo said:


> One important point, this method requires the use of a plunge router.


I would have felt a little better with one of those straight bits with the bearing at the base of the bit , but it's not going to work in this scenario unless I get there pre made jig


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I'm real tempted to buy an Incra table 43 by 27 and replace my TS extension with it and be done with it. Put the Incra fence adjuster on with those plastic knobs so the fence and adjuster could be easily removed for sawing bigger material if it gets in the way . The TS is 29 1/8 wide so I'd have to fab up something to support then Incra table , but nothing major 

I should have photo shopped this better as it's going to stick out 7 inches more on the right side but you get the idea . The factory extension that's in there now is 36" wide by 29" deep and the Incra is 43" wide by 27" deep 



But if I were to mount the incra table like this the adjuster for the fence could always stay there as it overhangs the table and would never be in the way . I would have preferred to work off the end of the table but maybe this will be ok . I think it's going to be uncomfortable though leaning over all the time 


I still like Bills idea with mounting the adjuster to a board that I could remove as needed . This way I could go with pic number 1 and work off the end of the table . Well as long as I don't loose accuracy with this setup


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok instead of modifying an Incra table I suspect in the end I should build a new extension and just purchase the Incra adjuster and fence . No use paying almost 300 bucks for a table you have to mod. This way I can make the extension the size I want

I sure flip flop around a lot don't I lol


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

*Make vs. Buy*

I'm in the same quandary: make a router table for an Incra plate vs. buy a Incra table and modify to fit my table saw. Pluses for the Incra table: perfect matching router plate opening, accurate plate location, aligned miter slot, no fuss table surface. All you have to do is rip it down to fit with your TS and just need a high tooth blade to cut through the aluminum miter channel.



My table saw is a Ridgid R4510, so I have a 16" wide by 21" deep area to work with- a bit smaller than yours.



The 28" x 32" TS Router Table Top with TSRTHW _comes with router table support hardware_ and is designed for what you need. You can mount it so the miter channel is on either side of the router plate- since you said you want to work from the TS edge.















Also, instead of connecting the Incra positioner to the router table, you could also attach it to an Incra miter slider. I confirmed with Mark at Incra that the slider would securely hold the positioner. You wouldn't need the pre-drilled positioner mounting holes and it is quicker to install/remove. Get the regular slider, and _not_ the SE model.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

That miter slider idea is interesting . To me I'm surprised there would be enough structural integrity to hold the adjuster tight enough as not to cause any deflection issues of the fence.But if there were two I could see it working better . 

I'm with you on the idea of using there table as like you say, it's all perfect off the hop . I don't think that table would work well for me as my extension is 36" wide though ,so I'd loose 4" and have that fence sticking out all the time on the end while I'm routing . That's why I was thinking about the 43" wide one .But in reality 4" less probably isn't that critical .The 43" by 27" is only going to be short the proper depth by 3" 1/8 where as the one your suggesting is an inch closer which I like . This is a tough one . If I could live with the router being to the inside of the table half my problems would be over .

Steve I like the miter slot idea the most so far but I almost hate the idea of mitering more slots in there table . A few drill holes shouldn't be a big deal though . Maybe I should take a shot at making a table with your miter slot idea and it's a wash then buy there table . It should only be a few hundred bucks to try


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Steve the more I think about this I'm ready to put the kibosh on Incra's fence adjuster .
I love the concept but I'm thinking keeping things aligned and perfectly parallel is going to be an issue . I mean seeing as the fence does changes in 1/1000 of an inch, by me having the system out of parallel by a thousandth , wouldn't that put the whole idea in jeopardy and kinda defeat the purpose of having such an accurate system ? 
Or am I overthinking this as usual


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well here's a quote from Incra 



> Q: I have a router table attached to my table saw. How can I mount an LS Router System
> so it can be easily removed?
> A: The oval top section of the positioner’s base can be removed from the T-slotted sub base. This oval section can then be attached to a piece of good-quality 3/4” plywood and then mounted in a variety of ways. A wooden router table encourages using knobs through the plywood threaded into T-nuts inserted into the underside of the router table. For a cast iron table saw top, an INCRA Miter Slider can be attached to the bottom of the plywood platform, and then the Miter Slider can lock the plywood platform and LS positioner into the saw’s miter slot where it can be used with the router table.


So basically there saying either scenario works . I'm thinking the miter slots would have less of a chance of getting play in the system though. Hard to say.
I think theres adjustment for the adjuster to make it accurate once it's bolted down . I have to read the manual as this would be good


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm still new to Incra and routing, but I'm not sure you need to be worried about the Incra positioner being "out of alignment" with the table since you're utilizing the positioner fence as your routing reference point and zeroing it against a bit/bearing upon install. The miter slot may not be in perfect alignment to the positioner & fence, but a fence-guided right angle guide would be more accurate than a miter.

Does your TS have a miter slot? You would use the TS miter slot for attaching the miter slider/positioner combo. I also asked Mark about using two miter slots vs. just one- he was perfectly comfortable recommending only one. The aluminum Miter Slider can be locked into position in the miter slot (the steel Miter Slider SE cannot be locked)-- the slider does _not_ move when locked.

Like your FAQ quote, Mark also stated to remove the positioner's flat base and just attach the oval piece directly to the miter slider, or utilize a piece of wood between the two to avoid drilling new screw down holes in the slider.

In terms of the ~3" gap if you used the 28"x32" RHS table, there's no rule that the RT must abut the TS; you could leave a 3" gap between the TS and the RT, so the RT is flush with the ends of your TS's existing fence system.

Or just get an Incra TS-LS fence combo #2 and have all your problems solved in one complete system. 

To your concern, note: the whole TS-LS positioner can be removed and rotated 180° in about a minute- so you could still route at the end of the table if you wanted. Incra just doesn't show a picture of this configuration, but they should.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

O...M...G...!
Shares in Alcan just went way up.


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

Providing this as another idea to attach an Incra positioner to a table, there's a thread about an aftermarket base plate to attach to a Festool MFT/3, i.e. 96mm grid surface.

It's Finally here... The Precision Plate for Incra Positioners!!


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> O...M...G...!
> Shares in Alcan just went way up.


I have more than one aluminum project planned, too. :wacko:

I'm about to submit drawings for county review for a deck made out of this aluminum LockDry system...

LockDry® Aluminum Waterproof Decking from Nexan.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

plunger said:


> Providing this as another idea to attach an Incra positioner to a table, there's a thread about an aftermarket base plate to attach to a Festool MFT/3, i.e. 96mm grid surface.
> 
> It's Finally here... The Precision Plate for Incra Positioners!!


That's an interesting idea and I'm surprised Incra doesn't see the need to retool another version of there LS bottom for other applications.
Seeing as it has cnc'd holes it would be square wherever you placed it . 

This is the link for precision dogs , but there pretty vague on there location other than there in the states .
I'm assuming Ohio and of course I'm the other side of the continent 

http://precisiondogs.us/products/precision-plate


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok well I bought a half sheet of mdf to make a template . I see they recommend using double sided tape to secure the router plate to the mdf . Instead I was going to use the factory screw holes towards the middle of the plate to prevent it from moving as the router is placed against it .
I'm going to proceed so it's kinda late to ask for suggestions now lol , but I can't see why it's not going to work? 
Maybe I'll add some tape to the ends to make sure there's no movement . 
Pics coming soon


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

FAIL! 

Well I got started and put double sided tape on the Incra plate . First pass was bad right off the start . Trying to follow the plate with the 24mm guide on the base with a 3/8" bit and it wasn't going smooth . I ended up going off course as you can see on the left but did a shallow cut . 

Two reasons why this wasn't going well . 1: the vacuum hose for the router was hooking on the mdf driving me bonkers 


2: I never realized there was this plastic on the base plate that needed removing preventing the router from sliding smoothly 
Maybe if I'd read the manual


But the template I think will be ok as the rest turned out well 


A little disappointed here as I put a small scratch in my spanking new plate . Must have hit it with the routers guide bushing . To think that all I needed to do was tape the top part down and work from the back side as this never would have happened 



The dust extraction wasn't going well . I found the culprit . Apparently shreds of plastic were stuck on the mesh inside from another project . You can see that huge pile below the hose that I removed 


Used a mallet and a piece of mdf to remove the Incra plate from the mdf . I never would have believed how hard it was stuck to the mdf , and I used thin strips left over from that plastic window film .


Ok I put in a piece of mdf in the centre to keep the router from tipping on a test piece for the plate 


And the test hole is a no show . Too big a hole for the plate ? 
Btw the issue with the cut going off track on the left of the finished test piece never would have happened but I removed the mdf from the centre and went around again . Apparently I tilted the router 


So guys I used a 24mm bottom guide to make the template which is the smallest I have . Router bit used was a 3/8's .
My other guides I have are a 27mm and a 40mm . In theory I need a larger guide to go inside the template now , but what size ? I don't think is going to work period . Now were mixing metric and imperial


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

Oh man! Apparently there's a lot to learn!

I would have faired no better. Afraid of the mess and potential time wasted with mounting the silly plate I just broke down and bought a pre-cut Incra RT today to drop the plate into.

Sorry I have no advice yet! You're giving me confidence in my purchase though. ☺

I tried drawing different radii circles the other day to figure out the bit diameter vs template diameter and it wasn't as straighforaward as I hoped.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

plunger said:


> Oh man! Apparently there's a lot to learn!
> 
> I would have faired no better. Afraid of the mess and potential time wasted with mounting the silly plate I just broke down and bought a pre-cut Incra RT today to drop the plate into.
> 
> ...


Steve like you say it's the pissing around all day that has me frustrated . But I guess that's how you learn.
If it wasn't for the long radiuses of the incra plate I could have just surrounded it with mdf and used a straight cut bit with a bearing , but Incra used that stupid radius that's bigger than a bit . Was liking that company till this nonsense.

I was under the impression that I could use the same size guide bushing for both cuts . But I'm doing something wrong . Incra sells the template but it's not available on amazon.ca . As a matter of fact the mdf I bought costs the same as there pre made template


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

So all you had cut was the one tracing? I think you're supposed to take the MDF piece with the hole and put it on another piece of wood. The route the inside of the hole with template bit to get a new hole that fits the router plate. Did you do this? I can't tell.

Cheers to learning! I'm just more research than action.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

plunger said:


> So all you had cut was the one tracing? I think you're supposed to take the MDF piece with the hole and put it on another piece of wood. The route the inside of the hole with template bit to get a new hole that fits the router plate. Did you do this? I can't tell.
> 
> Cheers to learning! I'm just more research than action.


Steve I tried your idea , good idea and I thought I had it . 
I tried routing inside the second template that was left over from the first test . It was made when I used the 24mm guide bushing . I swapped in the 27mm guide and routed inside the new template but there was about 1/32 of play all around when I dropped the Incra plate in .To bad I didn't have a bushing guide 1mm larger as I think it would have been perfect.
I think you have to use different size guides to be this right , and incra only makes 4 . Need an adaptor I guess


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

In reality when I routed inside the template that I made I was exactly to big for the Incra plate by the diameter of the bit (3/8"). 
Now if I had a straight bit with a bearing on it that would make it 3/8 of an inch bigger as you went around the second template it would be perfect ?

Steve I think I got this figured out . You made me rethink it . If all else fails I'll use a different size straight bit if they don't make an over size bearing for my needs


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I think I've got it figured out . Retrofit an Incra table into my table saw ! 
Problem over


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

My apologies, I just figured out my math was a bit off with my original recommendation. Use a 1/4" router bit, but you will need a 1/2" guide to create the template, and a 1" guide to use the template. The reason being is that the extra 1/2" (or more accurate the added radius equaling the size of the bit) is needed to move the bit to the right location for cutting the recess for the router plate.


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## plunger (Jun 21, 2013)

Rick,

Honestly I don't know why it's so difficult. You get a piece of wood, cut out a rectangle, throw a few level screw posts in, and you're done! Perfect fitting hole for your Incra plate!

:dirol:


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

plunger said:


> Rick,
> 
> Honestly I don't know why it's so difficult. You get a piece of wood, cut out a rectangle, throw a few level screw posts in, and you're done! Perfect fitting hole for your Incra plate!
> 
> :dirol:


If the corner radius was 1/4" or 1/2" it would be a cake walk .
You have to also take into account that were doing this within a Rickameter


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

NiceG316 said:


> My apologies, I just figured out my math was a bit off with my original recommendation. Use a 1/4" router bit, but you will need a 1/2" guide to create the template, and a 1" guide to use the template. The reason being is that the extra 1/2" (or more accurate the added radius equaling the size of the bit) is needed to move the bit to the right location for cutting the recess for the router plate.


Mike I got my new guide bushings and tried your method . Worked except I had to hammer in the router plate in the test hole as it was a little to perfect.

I am going right threw the table as I have an Incra mdf plate that secures underneath that comes with set screws and it becomes the ledge , so I can sand the hole till it fits in easier if I had too.
But if a ledge was required I don't know what a guy would do as it would be tough sanding inside a right angle like that.
I am going to try and make a new template with a piece of masking tape around the 1/4" guide bushing to make it a few thousands bigger and see how that works .

Mdf is going to go up after I'm done as I'm going to create a world wide shortage of the stuff by the time I get this figured out lol .

Following the outside of the router plate several times without going off course is next to impossible for me .
I am going to secure mdf pieces along the perimeter of the plate so the bushing guide can't wander on the straightaways . I'll just have to be careful not to screw up on the corners


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Mike I stand corrected . I just looked at it again today and sides are ok ,it just seems like the corners ended up a little tight . Your theory works


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Glad it worked for you!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

NiceG316 said:


> Glad it worked for you!


Well me being a newbie I was confused , but your math makes perfect sense as your compensating for the area the bit is displacing . 
I'd say even a caveman could do it , but for the life of me I cannot seem to follow the router plate accurately enough around it's perimeter to make a perfect template .
I came close , and instead of trying again and again I should get some bondo and repair the template.
Or air nail mdf pieces around the perimeter of the plate exactly the width of the bushing. This way the router can't go off track other than the radiuses .
I thought I was just being impatient , but it's not as easy as it sounds IMO .
Nothing for you seasoned experts I suspect though lol

I'm tempted to pound my line of credit and get a cnc RT and be done with it .


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