# Plunge depth - advantage?



## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Hi guys!

My first post here. Hope I’m on a right thread...

I’m buying my first router. After attending a crash routing course, I was recommended Dewalt D26204k (I think it’s called DWP611PK in the States).

It's got everything I need but I also found Makita RT0700CX2 which is cheaper and similar. The difference that stands out to me is that the Dewalt has max plunge depth over 50mm whereas the Makita has 35mm. 

As experienced router users, when would you feel you are glad that you have a router with a lot of plunge depth? When would you regret if your router doesn’t?

My main use for the router is building guitars which requires routing through 40-46mm bodies. But I may get into woodworking and I don’t want to limit the router use just for guitars.

Many thanks in advance. :smile:


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

I have the Makita and I would get the Dewalt. I am not sure if either would be the best router for you. Maybe wait and others will reply that have more brains than me.

PS - Welcome to the forum.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

No question range of plunge stroke is an important feature.
However, 35mm implies a 35mm cutter, a lengthy tool bit for 
a compact router. And a substantial excavation for such a light tool.
In my view, you'd be better off with a DW 621, considering your future in woodworking.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I believe Bosch would be a bit better than the DW...


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Welcome to the forum !


Gary


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> I believe Bosch would be a bit better than the DW...


Ituska, you'll find that a lot of the folks here will recommend the Bosch routers. However, I agree that the DW will be the better choice over the Makita. 

Apparently, you're into doing luthier projects. I'll suggest you fill in your profile to reflect this. When you ask a question, it helps the members understand; your main interests, experience level and the tools that you have available. 

There are several members here who build guitars, so, I'm sure that they will chime in with some valuable advice. 

One thing that you will find, as time goes on you will probably find that you will have more than one router. When it comes to luthier work, I'm sure that you will probably need something to "hog out" say, electric guitar bodies and a trim type router for finer, more delicate work.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

As a particularly experienced routologist I have to say "forget a trim router" at this stage of your woodworking career, I would suggest sticking with Makita but think in terms of the RP2301FC 1/2" router which will allow you to carry out any and all the tasks you would ever think of, and more. Sure, there are procedures where a trim router is the best way to go but this can wait until you gain experience and have the funds.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

hawkeye10 said:


> I have the Makita and I would get the Dewalt. I am not sure if either would be the best router for you. Maybe wait and others will reply that have more brains than me.
> 
> PS - Welcome to the forum.


Thanks Don!


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Quillman said:


> No question range of plunge stroke is an important feature.
> However, 35mm implies a 35mm cutter, a lengthy tool bit for
> a compact router. And a substantial excavation for such a light tool.
> In my view, you'd be better off with a DW 621, considering your future in woodworking.


Thanks Pat!


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Stick486 said:


> I believe Bosch would be a bit better than the DW...


Thanks Stick! Yes Bosch was another option (called 'Colt' in the US?) but I believe the one you can get in the UK (GFK600) does not have variable speed? At the router class, I liked the variable speed on the router I used so I wanted to get one with the option...


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

gjackson52 said:


> Welcome to the forum !
> 
> 
> Gary


Thanks Gary :smile:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

schnewj said:


> Ituska, you'll find that a lot of the folks here will recommend the Bosch routers. However, I agree that the DW will be the better choice over the Makita.
> 
> Apparently, you're into doing luthier projects. I'll suggest you fill in your profile to reflect this. When you ask a question, it helps the members understand; your main interests, experience level and the tools that you have available.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bill! I've tried to fill in my profile... Sorry as an analog person I'm not very online-savvy! Happy to know some people here also build guitars :happy:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

harrysin said:


> As a particularly experienced routologist I have to say "forget a trim router" at this stage of your woodworking career, I would suggest sticking with Makita but think in terms of the RP2301FC 1/2" router which will allow you to carry out any and all the tasks you would ever think of, and more. Sure, there are procedures where a trim router is the best way to go but this can wait until you gain experience and have the funds.


Thanks Harry! Ooo that Makita looks like a beast! Would you recommend that model? Being a 5 foot hobbit I will have to find something a bit smaller though... 

Sorry it may sound elementary but can I use 1/4 bits on the routers that say '1/2 inch?' Most guitar routing involve using 1/4 bits I think...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Itsuka said:


> Thanks Stick! Yes Bosch was another option (called 'Colt' in the US?) but I believe the one you can get in the UK (GFK600) does not have variable speed? At the router class, I liked the variable speed on the router I used so I wanted to get one with the option...


we have members that are from the UK and may be able to help you...


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Itsuka said:


> Thanks Harry! Ooo that Makita looks like a beast! Would you recommend that model? Being a 5 foot hobbit I will have to find something a bit smaller though...
> 
> Sorry it may sound elementary but can I use 1/4 bits on the routers that say '1/2 inch?' Most guitar routing involve using 1/4 bits I think...


You'd need two collets. One for 1/4" and the 1/2" that is usually standard on the larger routers. Larger than the Colt, anyway. 
Suggest that you visit a store where you can physically manipulate several models. The one Harry mentioned may be more router than you think you need, but they aren't as intimidating as you may think. 
Another suggestion is to visit the Stew-Mac :Stewart-MacDonald: Everything for building and repairing stringed instruments! | stewmac.com for some tool ideas. Also, there are a plethora of YouTube videos on guitar building. See what and how they use routers.
Happy building, mate.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I just wanted to add that as far as I can tell, the only time you would go all the way through an electric guitar body is if you are routing a tremolo pocket. Otherwise for pickup and control pockets you are looking at 38mm or less in depth....yes ? I would also recommend using a drill press and a forstner bit if you can to remove the bulk of the wood, and then rout to finish things off.



Gary


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## Rogerdodge (Apr 24, 2014)

+ 1 on what Harry said ! I have two of these beasts and they are pretty good. ( One in the table and one out.) I do have the trim router as well ; as somebody said 'you will most likely have more than one router' before long.

Welcome to the forum - a home from home !


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Itsuka said:


> Thanks Bill! I've tried to fill in my profile... Sorry as an analog person I'm not very online-savvy! Happy to know some people here also build guitars :happy:


Great job on the profile, Itsuka. Now, tell us a little about what you want to do with the router. How do you want to use it? Do you want it to cut out bodies in electric guitars for pick-ups and controls, cut for inlays, well, you get the idea. 

You can get little routers like a handheld Dremel or Foredom tools, that will handle bits as small as 1/32 of an inch for really fine work, or the bigger routers for massive material removal.

You asked if the larger 1/2 inch router collet can take the 1/4 inch bits. The answer is yes. However, you have to use a reducing bushing in the 1/2 inch collet to make up the difference in the 1/4 inch shaft size on the bit. Some router have both size collets available. It is just a matter of swapping them out and screwing them in.

You mentioned that most of the bits you will be using will be 1/4 inch. That implies to me that most of the router work will be "lighter duty". This implies that a mid-level power tool is what you may want. Again, it will depend on the intended usage.

Most of the members will tell you if you are going to buy a router, then buy a combination kit. It will be a little more expensive then a single based router, but it will give you both a fixed and a plunge base. You will find that you will probably have use for both bases at one time or another. It is cheaper to buy them as a kit then buy another base separately.

Let use help you with the right choice, but we need to understand what the intended use is. I was serious when I said, that, you will probably end up with more then one router. 

As you expand your skills you will find that a smaller or larger router will do the job better then the one you have. However, first, let's get you to the most useful one first.

You mentioned that you took a router class. This tells me that there are people in your area using routers. Don't hesitate to go back to the instructor and ask his advice. Chances are he has the experience to guide you towards the right router for the task and a model you need. If he doesn't then he shouldn't have been teaching the class.

Bill


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

I will agree and disagree with some of the comments made so far. That Dewalt seems like a lot of money for a 1/4" router. The Dewalt 625 1/2" router is similar money and will give you a lot more flexibility. It's a very popular model and seems to be more or less the default choice in the joinery trade in the UK. (Which is not to say it's the best choice, but it surely can't be a bad one.)

Almost all 1/2" routers available in the UK will be supplied with a 1/4" collet as well I think, I haven't seen one without.

Handling them in a store is a good idea. The 1/2" routers are bigger and heavier of course. Somewhere like B&Q may not have the exact model you're interested in, but they'll surely have something similar in size and weight to get a feel for it.

I'd disagree with the suggestion to buy a fixed/plunge base combination set though. This is an area where the US and European markets are very different. There are not many machines on the market with a fixed base option here, so if you specify that then your options are severely limited. Just get a plunge router. Anything you can do with a fixed base, you can do with a plunge router.

You might also want to consider the Triton range, especially if you think you might want to use the router in a router table in the future. They have a unique design that makes them well suited to use in a basic router table, which could be something as simple as a flat board with a hole in the middle, laid across two sawhorses and with a 2x4 clamped on as a fence. However their distinctive design has some shortcomings too, in particular when it comes to compatibility with 3rd party accessories, and the lack of an edge guide with fine adjustment.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

AndyL said:


> I will agree and disagree with some of the comments made so far. That Dewalt seems like a lot of money for a 1/4" router. The Dewalt 625 1/2" router is similar money and will give you a lot more flexibility. It's a very popular model and seems to be more or less the default choice in the joinery trade in the UK. (Which is not to say it's the best choice, but it surely can't be a bad one.)
> 
> Almost all 1/2" routers available in the UK will be supplied with a 1/4" collet as well I think, I haven't seen one without.
> 
> ...


Glad you weighed in Andy. I had forgotten that the preferences were slightly different on both sides of the pond. Here we buy the combo kits and there it is mostly the plunge type. 

I agree with you recommendation on the larger DeWalt, why limit yourself to only 1/4". I suspect that the type of routing that Itsuka will probably be doing will call for a mid-level size router. 

The real information is yet to come. Itsuka has to tell us what she wants to use is for, then the members can offer some recommendations for her to consider. You're, also, correct that her next step to to see what feels comfortable to her. What may be perfectly fine for you and me may not fit the hands of a "five foot hobbit". 

With a little more information I think that between all of us here we can get her to where she wants to be.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Gene Howe said:


> You'd need two collets. One for 1/4" and the 1/2" that is usually standard on the larger routers. Larger than the Colt, anyway.
> Suggest that you visit a store where you can physically manipulate several models. The one Harry mentioned may be more router than you think you need, but they aren't as intimidating as you may think.
> Another suggestion is to visit the Stew-Mac for some tool ideas. Also, there are a plethora of YouTube videos on guitar building. See what and how they use routers.
> Happy building, mate.


Thanks Gene! 
So both collets come with most large routers… I’ll check if they do if I decide to go for a big boy.
Yes I’m a big fan of Stewmac but never thought of their power tools - will check it out.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

gjackson52 said:


> I just wanted to add that as far as I can tell, the only time you would go all the way through an electric guitar body is if you are routing a tremolo pocket. Otherwise for pickup and control pockets you are looking at 38mm or less in depth....yes ? I would also recommend using a drill press and a forstner bit if you can to remove the bulk of the wood, and then rout to finish things off.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary


Exactly Gary!
The trouble is I love the tremolo on my guitars so much that I think most guitars I build are going to have one :grin: Thank you also for your advice on using foster bits.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Rogerdodge said:


> + 1 on what Harry said ! I have two of these beasts and they are pretty good. ( One in the table and one out.) I do have the trim router as well ; as somebody said 'you will most likely have more than one router' before long.
> 
> Welcome to the forum - a home from home !


Cheers from South coast roger! :smile:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Awesome, thank you for a lot of information Bill.

My main use of a router is firstly to route various cavities (pickups, controls…) on the body. As Gary says most cavities are under 38mm in depth but ‘tremolo’ cavity requires through-body routing. 

I would also like to use it to round the edges of the body.

Then if I get used to using a router, I’m hoping to use it for routing a ‘truss rod’ channel on a guitar neck. A truss rod is a long steel bar used to adjust the neck straightness. 

The course instructor is not a guitar builder but seeing what I wanting to do, he recommended the Dewalt combination kit. But he said “if you can spend the money”… In the UK it costs over £240 :crying:. I will spend it if I must but I wanted to see other options first.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

AndyL said:


> I will agree and disagree with some of the comments made so far. That Dewalt seems like a lot of money for a 1/4" router. The Dewalt 625 1/2" router is similar money and will give you a lot more flexibility. It's a very popular model and seems to be more or less the default choice in the joinery trade in the UK. (Which is not to say it's the best choice, but it surely can't be a bad one.)
> 
> Almost all 1/2" routers available in the UK will be supplied with a 1/4" collet as well I think, I haven't seen one without.
> 
> ...


Thanks Andy. 

B&Q and Screwfix have become two of my favourite places to visit. :smile:

I’ve observed home guitar builders tend to use a combination kit, but pro builders use big 1/2 routers. 
So I guess both do the job, but the question maybe whether I want to start easy or start properly. I just have think about it.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

schnewj said:


> Glad you weighed in Andy. I had forgotten that the preferences were slightly different on both sides of the pond. Here we buy the combo kits and there it is mostly the plunge type.
> 
> I agree with you recommendation on the larger DeWalt, why limit yourself to only 1/4". I suspect that the type of routing that Itsuka will probably be doing will call for a mid-level size router.
> 
> ...


Yep Bill, you hit the nail on the head… I can see that a 1/2” router covers everything - what I want to achieve and a lot more, and that’s what pro guitar builders use. But I'm not too confident if my strength keeps up with operating it. I don't know, this could be something I get used to if I use a lot of it.

I don’t want to rule out getting a proper router just because it’s too heavy but I don’t want to be put off using a router because it’s heavy. 

I will also keep in mind that as you say I will probably end up with multiple routers.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

I think there is a lot to be said for starting with a cheaper machine than a professional-standard one like the Dewalt. You could buy the most expensive machine on the market and still find that it doesn't suit you. With a cheaper router you may eventually become dissatisfied by its limitations, but at least you will have gained experience that will help you choose a better quality machine.

I used an ultra-cheap no-name router for many years. I'm not sure I'd recommend going that cheap, as I may have just been lucky with reliability. But the Bosch green tools are generally good quality and much cheaper than the pro models. Something like the Bosch POF 1200 AE might be worth considering. It's only a 1/4" / 8mm model but the price is reasonable: £65 on-line or £75 in stores (Homebase) if you want to lay hands on one.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Normally, I would recommend that you buy the best tool that you can afford. However, Andy has some sound advice. A cheaper router may get you the feel for what you need, and the features that you may ultimately want. Just be aware that it is a double edged sword. A cheaper one may frustrate you to the point where you are ready to pull out your hair. BUT it can, also, get you on the path to what you need.

Don't be intimidated by the larger routers. Once you learn how to use them the weight can be an advantage. The downside is that they may obstruct your view of the areas you want to route. You will be working some rather small areas. Again, good and bad features.

You say that your instructor recommended the DeWalt. Consider the Tritons. They should be readily available to you in GB and they come in three sizes. My understanding is that the Customer Service is outstanding.

Speaking of which, to muddy the waters even further, before you buy a particular brand do your research. Customer Service is a prime consideration when buying this type of tool. You may never need it, but if you do and the CS is terrible then you wasted your money. Here is where Andy and some of the other members in that area can be of help. Find out what brands have good reputations for Customer Service and which ones don't.

In the US DeWalt sometimes doesn't have the best CS, however, Bosch and Triton do. Bosch is outstanding here. It may be different there. 

Hope this helps further.

Bill


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

AndyL said:


> I think there is a lot to be said for starting with a cheaper machine than a professional-standard one like the Dewalt. You could buy the most expensive machine on the market and still find that it doesn't suit you. With a cheaper router you may eventually become dissatisfied by its limitations, but at least you will have gained experience that will help you choose a better quality machine.
> 
> I used an ultra-cheap no-name router for many years. I'm not sure I'd recommend going that cheap, as I may have just been lucky with reliability. But the Bosch green tools are generally good quality and much cheaper than the pro models. Something like the Bosch POF 1200 AE might be worth considering. It's only a 1/4" / 8mm model but the price is reasonable: £65 on-line or £75 in stores (Homebase) if you want to lay hands on one.


Thanks Andy,

It’s so true that expensive choices don’t always make you happy. 
I guess if I get a cheaper model as the first router, even if I don’t like it, it’s still cheap and also I will know what I want in the next router.

The Bosch sounds great. The price looks incredible for what it offers. I’ll read up more about it.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

schnewj said:


> Normally, I would recommend that you buy the best tool that you can afford. However, Andy has some sound advice. A cheaper router may get you the feel for what you need, and the features that you may ultimately want. Just be aware that it is a double edged sword. A cheaper one may frustrate you to the point where you are ready to pull out your hair. BUT it can, also, get you on the path to what you need.
> 
> Don't be intimidated by the larger routers. Once you learn how to use them the weight can be an advantage. The downside is that they may obstruct your view of the areas you want to route. You will be working some rather small areas. Again, good and bad features.
> 
> ...


Yep Bill,
Hopefully I can get a reasonable but decent router, not a cheap n nasty one!

Thank you for pointing out the importance of Customer Service, I'll keep it in mind as I will more than likely be needing it. 

Tritons seem to be less expensive compared to other brands for what they offer. I’ll check out their lineups.

Now time to do more research and some thinking! :smile:


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Itsuka said:


> It’s so true that expensive choices don’t always make you happy.
> I guess if I get a cheaper model as the first router, even if I don’t like it, it’s still cheap and also I will know what I want in the next router.
> 
> The Bosch sounds great. The price looks incredible for what it offers. I’ll read up more about it.


There's also a POF 1400 ACE model that has a fine height adjuster, a very handy feature if the extra cost is tolerable.

The Tritons are great if you foresee at least some router table use. But for purely hand-held use, I feel there are probably better options. The Tritons are large and a little top-heavy. And I say that as a Triton owner.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

AndyL said:


> There's also a POF 1400 ACE model that has a fine height adjuster, a very handy feature if the extra cost is tolerable.
> 
> The Tritons are great if you foresee at least some router table use. But for purely hand-held use, I feel there are probably better options. The Tritons are large and a little top-heavy. And I say that as a Triton owner.


 @Itsuka

Andy has a good point, the Tritons are a little top heavy. If you will be doing a lot of fine, close-up work by hand, then the balance and feel are extremely important. The most important thing here is to find what feels good in your hands, that has the right price point and good customer service. Parts and accessory availability are important, also. If you never need it, at least it's comforting to know that it is there if you do.

Sometimes the larger stores have demo tools to try out. If you can find them (ask if they do), or if you know someone who can let you try theirs it is a plus.

I know it's a lot to take in, be patient, do your homework and between all of us we'll get you there.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

AndyL said:


> There's also a POF 1400 ACE model that has a fine height adjuster, a very handy feature if the extra cost is tolerable.
> 
> The Tritons are great if you foresee at least some router table use. But for purely hand-held use, I feel there are probably better options. The Tritons are large and a little top-heavy. And I say that as a Triton owner.


Thanks Andy, 
The POF 1400 popped up when I googled POF 1200 but I thought that the price difference was just for the power… I’ll keep the extra feature in mind.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

schnewj said:


> @Itsuka
> 
> Andy has a good point, the Tritons are a little top heavy. If you will be doing a lot of fine, close-up work by hand, then the balance and feel are extremely important. The most important thing here is to find what feels good in your hands, that has the right price point and good customer service. Parts and accessory availability are important, also. If you never need it, at least it's comforting to know that it is there if you do.
> 
> ...


Great thanks Bill! :smile:


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

schnewj said:


> Sometimes the larger stores have demo tools to try out.


Sadly this is unknown in the UK, certainly for routers. Occasionally there's a board that you can drive screws into to try out the cordless screwdrivers!

Even at tool shows it's by no means universal that you can try things out. I think the last one I went to, Trend had some routers you could try but no-one else did. But at least you can see and handle everything. The Kempton Park tool show is 7-9 October - might be worth a visit, Itsuka.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

AndyL said:


> Sadly this is unknown in the UK, certainly for routers. Occasionally there's a board that you can drive screws into to try out the cordless screwdrivers!
> 
> Even at tool shows it's by no means universal that you can try things out. I think the last one I went to, Trend had some routers you could try but no-one else did. But at least you can see and handle everything. The Kempton Park tool show is 7-9 October - might be worth a visit, Itsuka.


The Tool Show looks great, thanks Andy. Might pay a visit if I am around.

Unless I have a drastic change of mind, I think I’ll get the Bosch POF1400. It’s got every feature I need, half the weight of 1/2 inch routers, and the price is very reasonable so it seems a good first router for me.

I’m away a lot this week so I can’t order it for a while but hopefully I can get it next week!


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Itsuka said:


> The Tool Show looks great, thanks Andy. Might pay a visit if I am around.
> 
> Unless I have a drastic change of mind, I think I’ll get the Bosch POF1400. It’s got every feature I need, half the weight of 1/2 inch routers, and the price is very reasonable so it seems a good first router for me.
> 
> I’m away a lot this week so I can’t order it for a while but hopefully I can get it next week!


Good choice on the Bosch. I don't think that you could have made a better choice for a first router. I think that it should fill most of your basic needs.

After you have used it for awhile, please let us know your general impressions...pros and cons on the router. 

Don't be a stranger, Itsuka.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Bosch routers are my favorites and I have tried most brands/models available. Taking your needs into account I think you should look at the Trend T-4 before you decide. The T-4 has more power than the Colt or 611. Dust collection is built in and availability in your area comes into consideration. The T-4 can easily be removed from its base and used for free hand carving and shaping too; you get more control with its longer body when used this way. Guide bushings are available in both metric and fractional sizes and collets are included to let you use both metric and fractional bits up to 1/4".(no 1/2" bits) Give it a look so you have more information before deciding on which you are most comfortable with.

The size of the router will make no difference in use, only when moving it to the work and back. Harry is 5'4" and he has no issues using the big 3-1/2 hp models.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

gjackson52 said:


> I just wanted to add that as far as I can tell, the only time you would go all the way through an electric guitar body is if you are routing a tremolo pocket. Otherwise for pickup and control pockets you are looking at 38mm or less in depth....yes ? I would also recommend using a drill press and a forstner bit if you can to remove the bulk of the wood, and then rout to
> 
> Gary


Excellent suggestion. If you hog out the bulk of the material with a forstner bit, you can use a lighter router to finish it off. I also suggest you use half inch bits for the most part. A trim router like the Bosch Colt or the small DeWalt 611 are limited to 1/4. That is far too small a shaft to use for deep plunges. I am a Bosch 2.25hp router fan, with two 1617s and a Colt. Excellent machines.


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

I've been silent through all of this because I mostly agree with what everyone has said, but if I was going to buy only one router to make electric guitars, which seems to be the way this discussion is heading, I would get a 2-2.25 hp router because they will be able to do just about everything that you might want to do with a router for making an electric guitar body, including full depth cuts and rounding over the outer edges. 

I helped one son make several electric guitar bodies and even though I have routers from a laminate trimmer size all the way up to a 3.25 hp router, all of the work that was done on these guitar bodies was done with one of my DeWalt 618 routers, so my recommendation is to get one of these better brand mid sized routers. I would find the one router from the better brands DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, etc. that I liked the feel, balance, plunge depth, depth stop adjustment, etc. of and then go with it. I believe that they all come with both 1/4 and 1/2" collets and in my opinion they are the best "one router fit" for all of your needs. 

If you end up doing small cuts and find that you would like a smaller and lighter router for these cuts, you can still do them with this larger router, but you can later buy a laminate trimmer or a 1 hp router like the DeWalt 611 or Bosch Colt later on.

Charley


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Excellent points, Charley. 

I don't have any experience for this type of use (guitar bodies), so, the fact that you do is great. A mid-sized router apparently is the best of both worlds, with the ability to handle 1/2 bits if needed. 

Anyone who works with routers understands that there is no one good router for all things. That is why I have laminate routers and all the way up to the big boys.

I think that Itsuka was going to be out of town for the week. Hopefully, she will see these latest posts and do some more evaluation(s) on which one to go with.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Mike said:


> Bosch routers are my favorites and I have tried most brands/models available. Taking your needs into account I think you should look at the Trend T-4 before you decide. The T-4 has more power than the Colt or 611. Dust collection is built in and availability in your area comes into consideration. The T-4 can easily be removed from its base and used for free hand carving and shaping too; you get more control with its longer body when used this way. Guide bushings are available in both metric and fractional sizes and collets are included to let you use both metric and fractional bits up to 1/4".(no 1/2" bits) Give it a look so you have more information before deciding on which you are most comfortable with.
> 
> The size of the router will make no difference in use, only when moving it to the work and back. Harry is 5'4" and he has no issues using the big 3-1/2 hp models.


Thanks Mike,

I think the Trend T4 was the model I used at the router lesson. The teacher wasn’t so keen of recommending it to me... For some reason I struggled a bit with holding the plunge stopper lever in place too. But thank you for suggesting another option.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

DesertRatTom said:


> Excellent suggestion. If you hog out the bulk of the material with a forstner bit, you can use a lighter router to finish it off. I also suggest you use half inch bits for the most part. A trim router like the Bosch Colt or the small DeWalt 611 are limited to 1/4. That is far too small a shaft to use for deep plunges. I am a Bosch 2.25hp router fan, with two 1617s and a Colt. Excellent machines.


Thanks Tom,

I’ve seen people getting away with just using a chisel after taking most out of the wood with a drill and foster bit. I’ll definitely get a 1/2 router once I get used to the one I buy :smile:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

CharleyL said:


> I've been silent through all of this because I mostly agree with what everyone has said, but if I was going to buy only one router to make electric guitars, which seems to be the way this discussion is heading, I would get a 2-2.25 hp router because they will be able to do just about everything that you might want to do with a router for making an electric guitar body, including full depth cuts and rounding over the outer edges.
> 
> I helped one son make several electric guitar bodies and even though I have routers from a laminate trimmer size all the way up to a 3.25 hp router, all of the work that was done on these guitar bodies was done with one of my DeWalt 618 routers, so my recommendation is to get one of these better brand mid sized routers. I would find the one router from the better brands DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, etc. that I liked the feel, balance, plunge depth, depth stop adjustment, etc. of and then go with it. I believe that they all come with both 1/4 and 1/2" collets and in my opinion they are the best "one router fit" for all of your needs.
> 
> ...


Thanks Charley, 

It’s great you’ve made some guitars :smile: I’m not so familiar with hp (horsepower?) but Google tells me 2hp equals 1491.4 watt… So hopefully the Bosch 1400w router I’m hoping to get is in the ballpark.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

schnewj said:


> Excellent points, Charley.
> 
> I don't have any experience for this type of use (guitar bodies), so, the fact that you do is great. A mid-sized router apparently is the best of both worlds, with the ability to handle 1/2 bits if needed.
> 
> ...


No one good router for all things - that seems to be the answer Bill. I think everyone is right about their recommendation :smile: 

I still feel the Bosch pof1400 is a good router for me (even if I regret the purchase and end up buying another, I won't go bankrupt). 

I’ll report it here when I do get my hands on it :smile:


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Itsuka said:


> Thanks Charley,
> 
> It’s great you’ve made some guitars :smile: I’m not so familiar with hp (horsepower?) but Google tells me 2hp equals 1491.4 watt… So hopefully the Bosch 1400w router I’m hoping to get is in the ballpark.


Our manufacturers use a convoluted formula to calculate horsepower that is basically a pipe dream and not indicative at all of what actual work the router is capable of. It is only useful to compare one of our routers to our others since they all use basically the same formula. Input watts is a much better indicator and output watts is better again since that also includes how efficient the router is with the power it is using. Just remember to keep it apples to apples, i.e. don't compare input on one to output on another. 

Unless there is a large difference between one machine to another in power then you are better off to look at reliability and features and most importantly, how it feels in your hands. Triton routers, for example, have a great reputation as table mounted routers but most who use them for handheld use complain about them being top heavy and feeling tippy.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Unless there is a large difference between one machine to another in power then you are better off to look at reliability and features and most importantly, how it feels in your hands. Triton routers, for example, have a great reputation as table mounted routers but most who use them for handheld use complain about them being top heavy and feeling tippy.


To be fair to Triton, they do recommend using the steel sub-base when doing edge work, with or without the fence. It does aid stability, especially if you fit a handle to it.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Andy, the big Triton is very top heavy and unwieldy compared to any other 3-1/2 hp(1500 watt) router. It is designed for table mounted use and in that situation works well. This is why it has a mounting plate attached in this photo.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

AndyL said:


> To be fair to Triton, they do recommend using the steel sub-base when doing edge work, with or without the fence. It does aid stability, especially if you fit a handle to it.


All routers benefit from an offset base Andy when being used hand held. Any router has at best 40% of the base sitting on your workpiece when doing profiling and that is just using a small diameter bit. One of the reasons I like to just let gravity hold my router down in a table is so I can take it out and use it and the mounting plate as an offset base. One of the things I like about the DW611 combo set is that the fixed base comes as an offset type so it makes it ideal for trimming laminate and doing small profiling.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

Mike said:


> Andy, the big Triton is very top heavy and unwieldy compared to any other 3-1/2 hp(1500 watt) router. It is designed for table mounted use and in that situation works well. This is why it has a mounting plate attached in this photo.


I imagine the big one is too much for hand-held use. At 7.7kg it is a monster! The one I have is the middle-sized one, the MOF001. It's usable for hand-held work but not ideal, at 6kg it's not exactly light. I'd like something smaller and lighter for some jobs but have never quite found the ideal. I thought the small Triton might be the one until I saw a comparative review that showed how close it is in size to the MOF001.

That's a nice router collection by the way. I hope you're paying attention Itsuka, to where you'll end up in a few years  I'm guessing that's only a fraction of Mike's total router collection as well!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I do have a few more Andy.  My collection changes on a regular basis; you can't answer questions for people if you do not have hands on experience with a tool or product. Here are some of my favorites.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

AndyL said:


> That's a nice router collection by the way. I hope you're paying attention Itsuka, to where you'll end up in a few years  I'm guessing that's only a fraction of Mike's total router collection as well!


That is a great collection indeed! More than my guitar collection :grin:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Just remember to keep it apples to apples, i.e. don't compare input on one to output on another.


Great advice, thank you Charlie. Never knew the difference in input and output powers :smile:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Itsuka, you have heard a lot of great information but the only way you can answer your questions is to get your hands on as many different routers as possible. While they all do the same thing they go about it in different ways. An example of this is on Bosch routers you use the lever to release the plunge lock and on a Makita you use the lever to engage it. Positions of the controls change between brands and as you noted the T-4 plunge lever was uncomfortable for you. Good luck on this and I am looking forward to seeing your final selection.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Mike said:


> Itsuka, you have heard a lot of great information but the only way you can answer your questions is to get your hands on as many different routers as possible. While they all do the same thing they go about it in different ways. An example of this is on Bosch routers you use the lever to release the plunge lock and on a Makita you use the lever to engage it. Positions of the controls change between brands and as you noted the T-4 plunge lever was uncomfortable for you. Good luck on this and I am looking forward to seeing your final selection.


Thank you Mike. Took me years and several cars for me to have a car I'm really comfortable with, so I understand it must be the case with routers! :smile:


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Just wanted to thank you guys all for your very kind help in choosing my first router. Thank you also helping me woodworking beginner to learn more about routers
I've finally ordered Bosch POF1400 ACE. 
Can't wait for it to arrive - I'm really looking forward to trying it out!!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

A good choice Itsuka; I hope you will use dust collection with it. A few Velcro strips holding the power cord and hose together makes it easier to control them.


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## Itsuka (Sep 9, 2016)

Mike said:


> A good choice Itsuka; I hope you will use dust collection with it. A few Velcro strips holding the power cord and hose together makes it easier to control them.


Great thank you for the advice Mike. :smile: I will be making a good use of the dust collection as I'll be using the router indoors.


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