# Another Dovetail Question / Saga



## RoyBullets (May 26, 2008)

I have been unable to do much woodworking for the past 2 years for a number of reasons but I really want to get back to it more.

Also 2 years ago I joined here and soon bought the Rockler model 22818 complete dovetail jig. About a week later before I was even able to use it, I went to a demo at my local Rockler store on doing dovetails. The demo was done with a PC dovetail jig and the guy doing the demo made it look pretty easy.

After the demo I asked him about the Rockler version and he said it was a complete piece of junk and would never reccomend it. Needless to say I was pretty disappointed and Rockler should be a little more careful. 

Now present day I still have never used the jig and are actually dreading the frustration to ensue. I have read some pretty bad things about it as well.

So my MCLS catalog came and I noticed a pretty simple looking jig called the Fast Joint Precision Joinery System. Comes with some nice looking templates depending on which package you buy.

I searched around here but did not find a lot of discussion on this one and was wondering if anyone has had good experience with it?

Fast Joint System

Also considering the Katie Jig since bobj3 reccomends it as well as others but it did not seem to have as many templates.

I am really anxious to get back to some projects especially some nice little boxes for gifts.

Thanks for reading and any comments welcome.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roy 

I suggest the Katie jig because it can do it all and on the router table,below you will see all the templates plus you move the fingers around like many of the very high price dovetail jigs but at a lower price..plus it so easy to setup and use, right out of the box you can put in dovetails in less that 10 mins..

Catalog #15 Page 3-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood

==



RoyBullets said:


> I have been unable to do much woodworking for the past 2 years for a number of reasons but I really want to get back to it more.
> 
> Also 2 years ago I joined here and soon bought the Rockler model 22818 complete dovetail jig. About a week later before I was even able to use it, I went to a demo at my local Rockler store on doing dovetails. The demo was done with a PC dovetail jig and the guy doing the demo made it look pretty easy.
> 
> ...


----------



## RoyBullets (May 26, 2008)

Thank Bob. As I study this more maybe I am really talking myself into both products.

I was having a hard time understanding all the concepts but after watching a couple of videos here is what I am thinking.

For traditional dovetails seems like the Katie Jig is probably what I want (maybe I can put the Rockler unit on Craigslist)

For some of the special shapes the MCLS Fast Joint Jig seems like the way to go. I really like some of the little shapes for maybe making some small jewlery boxes, etc. but if I am going to work on some bigger boxes, chests the Katie jig with a dovetail seem like the way to go.

Unitl now I was looking for one tool for both but maybe each has a use. Even though the Fast Joint could do a dovetail it does not seem like the best use with that little 3/16 bit. Also doing an odd shape really needs a sprial or patten type bit.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roy

The MCLS Fast Joint Jig system sucks, (rocker/OP/woodcraft the same thing) I don't have one but I played with one or to say I tried too..the joints are very hard to get right without using a BIG hammer and some beer..and some long nights to make some nice firewood 

Just my 2 cents 


=========



RoyBullets said:


> Thank Bob. As I study this more maybe I am really talking myself into both products.
> 
> I was having a hard time understanding all the concepts but after watching a couple of videos here is what I am thinking.
> 
> ...


----------



## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Roy
> The MCLS Fast Joint Jig system sucks, (rocker/OP/woodcraft the same thing) I don't have one but I played with one or to say I tried too..the joints are very hard to get right without using a BIG hammer and some beer..and some long nights to make some nice firewood
> 
> Just my 2 cents
> =========


Now this is a review I appreciate (really - no joke). I love this kind of candor (not very PC myself - except at work - when I ahve to be). We need more honest reviews like this.

Thanks Bob!


----------



## hilltopper46 (Feb 27, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Roy
> 
> The MCLS Fast Joint Jig system sucks, (rocker/OP/woodcraft the same thing) I don't have one but I played with one or to say I tried too..the joints are very hard to get right without using a BIG hammer and some beer..and some long nights to make some nice firewood
> 
> ...


Uh, boy. I just bought one of these and haven't had a chance to do much with it.

I have made one joint, and it went together tightly, but pretty well.

The thing I learned and which is repeatedly reinforced on the DVD that came with it is to go over and over and over the joint, cleaning out the joint and cleaning the table off each time until you are sure the bit isn't taking any more material off the joint.

Oh, wait! Mine's a PeachTree - maybe they're better.


----------



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

hilltopper46 said:


> Uh, boy. I just bought one of these and haven't had a chance to do much with it.
> 
> I have made one joint, and it went together tightly, but pretty well.
> 
> ...


The MLCS and Peachtree apparati seem identical to me, and given that Peachtree came out with theirs first, I suspect that either the MLCS unit is the Peachtree unit or the MLCS unit is a knockoff of the Peachtree unit.


----------



## RoyBullets (May 26, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Roy
> 
> The MCLS Fast Joint Jig system sucks, (rocker/OP/woodcraft the same thing) I don't have one but I played with one or to say I tried too..the joints are very hard to get right without using a BIG hammer and some beer..and some long nights to make some nice firewood
> 
> ...


My head is hard, but I sense you are trying to tell me something :happy:

Seriously the info is very much appreciated!

Any reccomendations on a jig or set of templates for making some of those little decorative shapes? I sort of had my mind set on making some little boxes for the kids for Christmas but wanted to use something a little different than a dovetail for the joint. Or maybe some very small dovetails (1/2" or less).

Do not really know what I am doing in this area at all since all routing I have done to date mostly rounding, edging and duplicates with the flush cut / pattern makers bits.

Always appreciate the feedback


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roy

I would suggest sick with the ones that work 

1/4" Half Blind Dovetail Template
Pins and Tails, Half-Blind, Box Joint Dovetail Jigs


Or Small box joints ,always look nice and all done with one bit.

1 PC 1/2" SH 5 Slots Adjustable Box Joint Router Bit - eBay (item 140430143948 end time Jul-27-10 19:05:28 PDT)

=



RoyBullets said:


> My head is hard, but I sense you are trying to tell me something :happy:
> 
> Seriously the info is very much appreciated!
> 
> ...


----------



## RoyBullets (May 26, 2008)

Ok, I am definitely a dummy. So I can pick any dovetail bit I want and use it with the Katie Jig?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Roy

Well yes and no but they must be the right type 

5pc Top Bearing Dovetail Router Bit Set For Keller Jig - eBay (item 140430460713 end time Jul-28-10 15:35:30 PDT)

=======



RoyBullets said:


> Ok, I am definitely a dummy. So I can pick any dovetail bit I want and use it with the Katie Jig?


----------



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

This topic deserves much more discussion. It seems to me that through dovetails are restricted to the angle of the pin template while half blind dovetails have much greater flexibility, no matter what device, a PC, Rockler, MLCS, or fast loint or Katie jig, etc. 

Am I correct?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Guys

Maybe I should say why I think the systems sucks..

First off the bits break in a heart break and you must buy many of them at 15.oo bucks each to get the job done..
In the demo video they say you must take a very little pass but they don't say why that's because the bits break so easy. ( 3/16" diam. the norm for all the systems..)

You must use the very best hard wood you can buy with out any flaws in the stock and straight grain..

When you try and put the joints together many will snap off, the little ears.
They don't leave any room for the glue and no way to adjust the fixture or the bit to give you some room like the box joints or the dovetail joints can do..

I tried to make 16 corner joints and I only got one to fit and that was because I rework the joints 4 times to get some extra room for the glue and I broke 7 bits total for the 16 corners..
It's almost the same as snapping inlay joints together and using it like a joint at the end of some stock very tricky.

The fixture and guides/pins needs some rework to get it to work every time ,it's should be fun but it's not just a lot work without a big pay off at the end.

If they said you can have one for free I would turn it down 

But that's just my 2 cents..

=========


----------



## RoyBullets (May 26, 2008)

Thank you very much. So my best bet is to probably to forget all the fancy little shapes and stick with bits that are already the shape of the joint such as the dovetail.

Looking again at the Katie site they have a Jr. version that is probably what I need for doing little boxes. For that I just get a smaller bit.

All starting to make more sense now. For a long time I just did not get the concept of how the jig worked until I saw the demo.


----------



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Maybe I should say why I think the systems sucks..
> 
> ...


 Bj, why would your criticisms not also be true of the Katie jig?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom

The Katie jig is a diff.horse altogether, it's a straight in pass jig (dovetail/box joints) not a pocket hole jig so to speak..plus you can adjust the bit to get that nice fit every time..unlike the other micky mouse jig system.. 

=====



mftha said:


> Bj, why would your criticisms not also be true of the Katie jig?


----------



## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Tom
> 
> The Katie jig is a diff.horse altogether, it's a straight in pass jig (dovetail/box joints) not a pocket hole jig so to speak..plus you can adjust the bit to get that nice fit every time..unlike the other micky mouse jig system..
> 
> =====


Hi Bob

What is this "true dovetail bit" that is on the same page as the Sommerfield Katie jig? Are all the other dovetail bits not the proper shape?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tom
All the dovetail bits use for the Katie jig are the normal ones the only one that is not is the one you posted, made to put in Blind dovetails quick and easy and always dead on right out of the box.

Creates beautiful half blind hidden joints for a decorative look to your drawer. 

Catalog #15 Page 3-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood
Organic Half-Blind Dovetail Katie Jig Plate-Sommerfeld's Tools For Wood

True Dovetail Bit for the Katie Jig Half Blind Plate

Creates beautiful half blind hidden joints for a decorative look to your drawer. 

Organic Half-Blind Dovetail Katie Jig Plate
Using our Sommerfeld's Katie Jig setup you can purchase our half blind plate that makes beautiful half blind hidden joints for a decorative look (bits included in the price).
In Stock=

=====





mftha said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> What is this "true dovetail bit" that is on the same page as the Sommerfield Katie jig? Are all the other dovetail bits not the proper shape?


----------

