# I am now a girly-boy



## Edward J Keefer (Jan 28, 2005)

:stop:When I assembled my Craftsman's table saw (model 315.218050), I was of the thought that the blade guard assembly, with the speader and hold-downs) was for girly-boys, after all I watched Norm and he did not have it installed.
This weekend, I was cutting a sheet of 1/4 plywood. I have done it many times, but this time it had a warp in it. As I got to almost the end , it jumped up over the blade and sawed a circle in it, before kicking back. I stand to the side of the blade and it did not hit me.
Looked around and found the blade guard assemby, followed the instructions and it is now part the the table saw. 
Yes I am now a girly-boy, but I have become a safe woodworker. Put all of those safety devises on your machines. I including featherboards for your router table. Become a girly-boy!:big_boss:


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## Cochese (Jan 12, 2010)

I was expecting something different from the title of the thread.


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## Stefang (Feb 10, 2010)

One of the things I treasure most about my woodworking hobby is that I can take whatever safety measures I deem necessary. I don't have a blade guard, but I have a riving knife on my tablesaw. I always use a push stick when appropriate, that is when not using one gets my fingers anywhere near the blade. I avoid doing any tasks in a way that I'm not 100% comfortable with. Do my safety rules work? So far so good, but all the safety devices in the world will not be effective without using your brain, which to my way of thinking is the best safety device in existence. Having stated all this, I feel that each person should take whatever safety measures they feel necessary to avoid injuries. If this includes a helmet, goggles, and a fire extinguisher mounted on a backpack, so be it. Just do whatever you need to do to stay safe, and don't forget to use your brain while you are at it!


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

we're here to *PUMP YOU UP!!!!*


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

I had an old timer cabinet maker say that he knew of too many guys that got in trouble because of saw guards. Maybe just careless? I don't use mine all the time, depending on what I am cutting on the TS.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

"after all I watched Norm and he did not have it installed."

If you listen carefully, you will hear Norm say he has the guards removed so that we can see what is happening only.
I doubt he would remove the guards for any other reason.

James


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## rbcpastor (Feb 23, 2010)

For someone who cut the end of his finger off, I can tell you that any safety device is worth it. You just can't replace fingers, and hands. Be careful!


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I was at a working with plywood seminar with Hendrik Varju at the London Wood Show a couple of weekends ago and he was doing his demonstration on a Delta table saw that had the guard removed. He spent at least 10 minutes explaining that the saw was a loaner and the guard was lost and he would not normally use a saw without the guard. The saw did have a riving knife, but everytime he used it he reiterated the importance of having the guard installed. He is not a fan of the GRR-Ripper either, and there I disagree with him. 
Having been a victim of kickback a couple of times I use my guard whenever possible now. When it's not on I use the GRR-Ripper.
We had a rash of TS accidents on the forum a while back. All of them happened without the guard in place. I hope that does not repeat itself ever again.
Glad to hear you were not hurt Trap!


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## Hendrik (Mar 16, 2009)

*London Seminar*



CanuckGal said:


> I was at a working with plywood seminar with Hendrik Varju at the London Wood Show a couple of weekends ago and he was doing his demonstration on a Delta table saw that had the guard removed. He spent at least 10 minutes explaining that the saw was a loaner and the guard was lost and he would not normally use a saw without the guard. The saw did have a riving knife, but everytime he used it he reiterated the importance of having the guard installed. He is not a fan of the GRR-Ripper either, and there I disagree with him.
> Having been a victim of kickback a couple of times I use my guard whenever possible now. When it's not on I use the GRR-Ripper.
> We had a rash of TS accidents on the forum a while back. All of them happened without the guard in place. I hope that does not repeat itself ever again.
> Glad to hear you were not hurt Trap!



Actually, I was using a General International table saw, provided by Federated Tool in London for some of my seminars. As a floor model, unfortunately the blade guard was missing. They brought one with them thinking it would fit, but it was for another model. If the saw didn't have at least a riving knife, I would have needed to change my seminar and have some of the parts already ripped in advance (on another saw) because I don't believe in ripping without at least a splitter or riving knife, but almost always with a full guard as well. Those who have attended other seminars of mine in my own workshop, at woodworking shows, etc. know how much I preach the use of a blade guard, particularly when ripping. I've spent thousands of hours using a table saw and studying the safety implications. I've written about my conclusions and even have a nearly 10 hour long DVD on the subject. So I can't preach one thing one minute and then just do a 180-degree change in my techniques the next minute.

I'll be using the same table saw at the upcoming Kitchener-Waterloo Woodworking Show and I'm told I should have the proper guard by then. If not, though, you'll see me using not only a riving knife but also a very long push stick.

I'm not against the Gripper device completely and it can have some great uses on a router table or even some table saw techniques (dados and rabbets, for example). However, I see people at shows demonstrating its use with no blade guard, no splitter or riving knife, etc. and their hand, of course, has to pass right over the spinning blade when using the device in this application. No matter what kind of push stick or pad you like to use, I won't promote putting your hand directly over a spinning blade except with dados and rabbets (using a push pad, plus the blade is buried). If a device requires me to put my hand over a spinning blade with the top of the blade exposed then I wouldn't use that device for that particular operation. There are better ways. I also don't advocate ever holding both offcut and workpiece during a rip. Only the workpiece should be held (trapped tightly to the fence with your splitter or riving knife), with the offcut untrapped and left to do what it wants.

So I'm not against the Gripper device in every possible application, of course. But you do have to study the safety risks and use the appropriate type of safety device in the right circumstance. I think everyone needs to learn a lot more about safety risks on table saws and how the common problems are caused.

Anyhow, for me every rip cut happens with at least a splitter or riving knife, but I truly use a guard for 99% of rip cuts. I only take off the guard when it causes a true hazard, such as when a workpiece has a very odd shape or size, etc.


Hendrik Varju
Passion for Wood


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

Hendrik thank you for taking the time to post here and clarify your reasoning. I enjoyed your seminar very much!


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## Hendrik (Mar 16, 2009)

CanuckGal said:


> Hendrik thank you for taking the time to post here and clarify your reasoning. I enjoyed your seminar very much!


Thank you.

One of my customers had read the post about the London Show and sent me an email about it, so I thought I'd check it out. I know you're from Ontario, so if you get a chance to attend the Canadian Home Workshop Show at the International Centre in Toronto March 5th through 7th, you'll find me there. It would be great if you can come and introduce yourself. I'll also be at the Kitchener-Waterloo Woodworking Show March 12th through 14th and I'll be working on that same table saw again (hopefully with a full blade guard this time!). I hope to meet a bunch of new people at these two shows.

All the best,


Hendrik Varju
Passion for Wood


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't know if I will be at the Kitchener Show, but I am definitely attending the CHW show both Friday and Saturday. I will certainly introduce myself there. Thank you again!


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## MuzzleMike (Feb 23, 2010)

trap said:


> :stop:When I assembled my Craftsman's table saw (model 315.218050), I was of the thought that the blade guard assembly, with the speader and hold-downs) was for girly-boys, after all I watched Norm and he did not have it installed.
> This weekend, I was cutting a sheet of 1/4 plywood. I have done it many times, but this time it had a warp in it. As I got to almost the end , it jumped up over the blade and sawed a circle in it, before kicking back. I stand to the side of the blade and it did not hit me.
> Looked around and found the blade guard assemby, followed the instructions and it is now part the the table saw.
> Yes I am now a girly-boy, but I have become a safe woodworker. Put all of those safety devises on your machines. I including featherboards for your router table. Become a girly-boy!:big_boss:


I guess that I can be thought as a girly boy but I have seen peace of wood go through a sinder block wall when I was in high school wood shop . I always wondered when I met the instructor and he only had 3 fingers and it was him that had the board go throw the wall .


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Hendrik. Thanks for being here.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Not being able to use a table saw safely is what drove the recent purchase of a new table saw this Christmas season. That and a bunch of duplicate presents from sears.

I always leave the riving knife on, it has never gotten in the way of anything other than trying to measure from a tip of the blade to the miter gauge or fence to check for straightness. Doing blind cuts it works just fine as it is behind the blade all the way and does not extend past it in height.

The only thing I dislike about it is that the kickback pawls and the blade guard attach to it. If I try to lower the blade just a little bit without first lifting the pawls manually the whole pawl/guard setup up starts to twist. And if I lift the pawls I can only lower the blade a little bit.

I am looking into building an overarm blade guard with a dust collection port in it. What I have seen is you can use plexiglas or something of the sort to create one. Something like the one in the link below.

WoodCentral's BP Archives: Building the Overarm Blade Guard and Dust Collector

So for now I use it for ripping almost all of the time but not always and I wish I could.

The last time I used my old saw I was cutting some plexiglass. Almost every single piece of it kicked back. I knew enough to stand off to the left of the saw. I was cutting 5/8" strips to try to make miter bars for the thing. There are some of the strips still buried in the snow besides the garage yet.  That day was the day my Wife decided it was time to search for a new table saw within our budget, especially since I had read newer saws had the riving knife.

I did have a problem the first time I used the old saw. I was unable to get the guard to properly align with the blade so did without it. It swiveled up from the back some how, coming forward and to the left to go over the blade if I remember correctly. Well the first piece kicked back. I was standing on the left, my left hand no where near the line of fire...or so I thought. The piece of wood (plywood if I remember right) had part of it tear off and kickback hitting my left thumb. It tore a super-sized hangnail like thing on the right side of the left thumb. Bad enough that when my Wife got home I found out I was visiting the doc. She had called the doctor's office after I described what had happened and they said to come in just in case it needed stitches and I think to update my tetanus shot while I was there. 

My Wife never liked that we bought that saw in the first place and it had sat in the box for several years after got it, only taking it out when we started our basement bathroom project. She ESPECIALLY disliked it after what happened to my thumb.

The rest of the cuts for that project were cut with either a circular saw or my brother's miter saw.

I did finally get the guard and pawls thing straightened out. Made sure everything was nice and parallel and all of that. First test run the blade hit the guard chewing it up. Re-aligned things, thought for sure things were correct this time. Same thing happened. I should have just tossed the saw instead of the blade guard. 
That project is also when I acquired his 10 plus year old, never used router that I hated because of the ring height adjustment. That never hurt me while working, but did sometimes lead towards hitting my knuckles while trying to twist it or a bruised ego since some little piece of plastic that only had a plastic nut was getting the best of me. I never used the bits he had (again still in the package over 10 years after he got it for Christmas one year) and have now found out that was a good thing as they aren't the anti-kickback style. (another safety thing) 

The danger a person can come in from just assuming that these tools must be reasonable safe straight out of the box if the instructions are followed or the company would have been sued out of existence is a terrible thing in my mind.


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## CanuckGal (Nov 26, 2008)

There is a timely article out on the Fine WoodWorking site:

New Study Discusses Tablesaw Injuries - Fine Woodworking


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Just reading a couple of the comments gave me chills.


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## routerup (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the reminder that power tools can be dangerous  If nothing else it might help stick in my mind for a bit longer.


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I worry that I will get too used to the blade now that I have a safer saw, but still always remember to grab a push stick and keep my hands away from it...at least so far I even shut the saw down a lot instead of moving cut pieces while the saw is running unlike on some of the shows I have seen.

I think being afraid of adding another handicap and pain to my already beat up body will help me always remember to be safe around the blade (and router). It is when it comes to portable saws I worry know. Too easy for me to just trip over something as small as a pebble and end up getting hurt.


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## Edward J Keefer (Jan 28, 2005)

The title of the thread drew attention to how important a blade guard, splitter and riving knife is when using a table saw. The story is true.
I hope that some of the viewers, have taken a second thought and put the assembly onto the table.
To: CanuckGal...... I am not really a girly-boy. Thanks for looking. The gallery was great!

46_trap aka the geezer, and Ed Keefer


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

I don't have (yet) a table saw, but after all these useful informations I think if/when I'll buy one the first thing I'll add will be a power feeder: it seems cheaper and easier to find than a spare thumb.


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## MuzzleMike (Feb 23, 2010)

MarcoBernardini said:


> I don't have (yet) a table saw, but after all these useful informations I think if/when I'll buy one the first thing I'll add will be a power feeder: it seems cheaper and easier to find than a spare thumb.


MarcoBernardini all you have to do is go to the second hand store . :jester::jester: At least that is what my old shop teacher said .


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

I have thought about the saw stop table saw if I ever get to a position I can spend that much on a saw. But I one thing I see against it is that a person might become careless knowing that the blade is going to stop if you touch it. I wish there were statistics showing how many injuries (or managing to trip the blade stop) people have had using it that never had an injury using their previous saw. 

I think you still get cut 1/8" for every X speed your hand or other body part hits the say. 1/8" can still hurt a lot.


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## xplorx4 (Dec 1, 2008)

Just got around to reading this thread, some may wonder why I have waited so long. Frankly the "girly-boy" thing kind of didn't ring as interesting. I noted that as I read through it all, and it has been a bit of reading, that with the exception of Deb none of the one’s involved last September thru November’s accidents has said much about their experiences. Well I can chime in with real close and personal experience. Just drop down about 4 threads and read all about it. I guess I should take a pic or two for 4 months later post to “the one post I never wanted to make”. If you’re interested you can go read the whole gory mess, I for one have had enough, don’t need to read it, I live it every day almost all day the ring figure hurts. The one thing I don’t remember reading is how high the blade is above the stock. Had mine been more than the ¼” I would not have all of the four fingers on that hand. I see guys wirh the blade up nearly all the way and just have to walk away.

It seems the blade guard has gotten an overhaul. I have seen one at a distance, and read about it in one of the wood working magazines. I have heard several say the blade guard is more dangerous than not having one. Seems I have heard that same excuse with seat belts!! I now use, all the safety devices I have around the shop, and all at the same time. That saw is cold steel and does not care what it cuts. I suggest using every bit of safety you have especially the one between the ears. And never get comfortable with the saw. I think about every cut and the old familiar easy rip of plywood, especially plywood, cause that was how I got caught and it was fast, less than a heartbeat.

Just be ever alert and do not let anyone or anything distract you even you pros must be even more cautious. We all need to remember that “familiarity breads contempt”.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

routerup said:


> Thanks for the reminder that power tools can be dangerous  If nothing else it might help stick in my mind for a bit longer.



Yes, Steve, 

Now, I even wear steel capped work boots just to mow the lawn.

James


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## MarcoBernardini (Jan 26, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Now, I even wear steel capped work boots just to mow the lawn.


You too? 
Some "modern" steel toe shoes are more stylish than sneakers: I wear them almost permanently, since they are also more comfortable.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

My Triton came with a combined guard and dust extractor similar to the one in the article quoted. I am so used to using it, it never occurred to me that people use table saws without them.
Then again, in Europe we are so surrounded by health and safety regulation that table saws aren't allowed to be sold without guards and haven't for many years.
Mike has alluded to the problems he has at school where the H&S regs get so heavy that they really do get in the way sometimes, because they have to consider the most extreme stupidity that a schoolboy might try.
Interlocks have to be on everything, so that it is impossible to get at moving parts without cutting off the juice. Even the little Lidl drill stand I got has a chuck guard and an interlock on the drive belt cover.

Cheers

Peter


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

Every time I start to get more comfortable with the table saw I think of what could happen and back the fingers up another inch or two away (normally already far away). I shut the thing off constantly to move a cut off piece, even if it has slid away from the blade. I trip and fall way too easy to take a chance with reaching across the table until the blade has completely stopped. Adds time I want to not spend some times, but I figure my Wife would rather I was a little late getting upstairs than a little light on the count of my fingers.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

A very sound approach to using the TS Derek!!

+1


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## jmg1017 (Apr 9, 2009)

The single most important recent safety improvement made to the table saw (excluding Sawstop) is the riving knife. The problem is with most manufacturers, including the Grizzly saw I just ordered, is that the saw guard and riving knife are separate components and are used independently. It's as if you have to decide which issue is more important to protect yourself against; making contact with the blade during a crosscut or rip cut, or preventing kickback during a rip cut. I think if you asked a group of tablesaw users what their biggest concern was, the majority would saw kickback.
I guess that's why the Sawstop is so popular as it addresses both issues at the same time. Now if the price was more reasonable.....


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

The 2 saws purchased this year use the riving knife to attach the blade guard to the saw.

The fact that new saws come with a riving knife was the main reason a new saw was even thought about here, let alone bought. Saw Stop is way over the budget limits...way, way over.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Joe... for whatever its worth, my new Unisaw uses the riving knife to support the blade guard and anti-kickback pawls. It's also designed to be lowered (guard and pawl removed) rather than removed for non-through cuts. I've never felt the need or desire to remove it.

I suspect the design will be cloned by other manufacturers (just as Delta likely cloned it from others), as it just makes good sense.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

DerekO said:


> I have thought about the saw stop table saw if I ever get to a position I can spend that much on a saw. But I one thing I see against it is that a person might become careless knowing that the blade is going to stop if you touch it. I wish there were statistics showing how many injuries (or managing to trip the blade stop) people have had using it that never had an injury using their previous saw.
> 
> I think you still get cut 1/8" for every X speed your hand or other body part hits the say. 1/8" can still hurt a lot.


Derek... The SawStop has one feature to minimize the chance of people using the SawStop becoming careless too often. It stops the blade almost instantly due by jamming a specially designed piece of aluminum into the teeth. The carbide digs deep and the energy is absorbed. Once that happens, the safety module must be replaced (~$100) and the blade may well be out of alignment, if not damaged due to the force of stopping the blade so quickly.

Not all but many people will think about it after they spend $100-$200 to get the saw back up and running.

Is it worth it? Absolutely... Just ask someone who'd lost a limb or even gotten a bad cut how many cartridges they'd have been willing to pay for in trade for just having gotten a small cut. Still, it'd be enough to help most sane people be careful!


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## DerekO (Jan 20, 2010)

That cost was one the Power Tools Institute used against it. 

I do know I will be happy the day I can finally afford a saw that has that technology built into it. 

I have seen the module and blade shown after a test, but never did think about the saw being out alignment until now. All much better than a finger. 

I have enough replacement parts needed for this body as it is and hope to just stick to those internal titanium and plastic ones than needing external ones too.


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## sunrisejj (Jul 17, 2010)

I thought it was something new or different. come here just to encourge you!


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## 01stairguy (Apr 18, 2010)

safety pays!
:yes4:


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Having seen the Saw-Stop demonstration in person I can tell you two things: The hot dog used to trigger the brake had only a minor scratch and the blade is destroyed when the brake hits it. Still well worth the money. This photo was taken at the demo, many thanks to Mathiew the owner of the Sterling Heights, MI Woodcraft.


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## schanc (Jul 14, 2010)

Too many times I have been caught up in the "hurry get it done" mode. Take chances by doing work without the proper safety precautions, That's when fingers get nicked, lose a fingernail, or even worse. I decided years ago this is just a hoppy for me and it wasn't worth being enjured over. Now I try to plan out my work and apply as much safe technique as possible.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

" safety cost money" My son has one at work and said it's a real PITA saw to use, the blade and the lock systems must be replace if the blade locks up.

He said it's once a week thing the norm at a 200.oo+ price tag every time.
More so in the winter time , they use a lot of MDF/plywood and green wood Pine from HD/Lowes (undry wood) and if the stock gets wet look out, it will lock up blade..


============


Mike said:


> Having seen the Saw-Stop demonstration in person I can tell you two things: The hot dog used to trigger the brake had only a minor scratch and the blade is destroyed when the brake hits it. Still well worth the money. This photo was taken at the demo, many thanks to Mathiew the owner of the Sterling Heights, MI Woodcraft.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Working sheets of plywood on a table saw is very dangerous until it is cut-down to a more manageable size. All kinds of straightedge guides are available for sale or you can build your own easily enough. I run hundreds of sheets of plywood through my shop and simply cut the full sheets down to more manageable sizes with a handheld (Skil) circular saw. I lay the sheets flat on the floor, but atop of 1" or so thick polystyrene insulation (be cautious to adjust depth of cut accordingly). I cut the smaller sizes to something an inch or so bigger than their final dimension in order to make my final (best) cuts on the table saw. Scrapping wood is better than scrapping body parts. Better to waste a truckload of wood than a finger. Learn from a former jackass: ME. If there's a way to get hurt, I have probably done it. *OPG3*


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