# Ok, building a table, but...



## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

Hi guys 'n' gals, haven't been on in ages, but I haven't forgotten y'all.

I'm in the process of trying to set myself up with a table router setup, as the list of things my wife would like me to make has suddenly grown from 0 to about 4 since we moved house 

Consequently I have a higher desire to have a table-mounted router to complement the Ryobi plunge router - which won't go in a table without a cable tie or duct tape (thanks Chuck for the suggestion in another thread). I'm not keen, only because I want to use this outside the table, and going back and forth is just going to annoy me.

So, I purchased today the Makita 3600G. Still a plunge router, but it has a toggle switch to turn on and was not expensive ($159 Australian which is about what my Ryobi RRT1600 costs). It also has a great built-in lift system that helped seal the deal, along with another discussion in another thread that I felt was positive. Yes, no speed controller yet, so goes full noise, but that'll come.

Anyway, back to the saga and the reason for my posting.
I bought a cheap tabletop table which I hoped to mount the Makita to - only it doesn't fit. The ring that you're supposed to drop the router into to mount it with some clamps is about .5mm too narrow around the circumference. I cannot lie, I wanted to swear at the manufacturer for making a supposedly generic table less than accommodating. I also discovered after I bought the table it had a maximum weight limit of around 3.5Kg. Fine for the Ryobi (which is also too big), but not the Makita which weighs in at 5.5Kg. She's a heavy beastie.

So, as I don't have the funds to buy a $500+ table, I have had to decide on what to do - return the cheapie table and make something, or, and this is what I choose, pinch bits off the cheapie like the external power switch and plastic fence with built-in dust port (which I'll replace at some point) and featherboards, and make something myself.

So here I am, about to embark on the version 1.0 of my router table, which I'm sure will change and evolve over the years.

My plan is to get some wood for a top, cut a hole, mount the router to it with some countersunk screws, mount the fence and featherboards and go from there. I'll probably use a melamine top or something similar. Ideally a mounting plate sure, but the cost of a plate that I then have to work out where to bore holes.. and I'm not sure there's enough advantage right now. Plus I can add it later should I need to.

What I wanted to ask everyone was:
Do you think the countersunk screws will be enough to hold the router, or should I make some sort of frame to better "clamp" the bottom of the router to the board?

Because it's so heavy, I'm a little nervous about how well it'll hold.

I'm mounting the Makita, as it's single speed, not soft start, but should definitely do what I need for now (especially as I learn new things). I'll possibly modify it or replace it later as funds and demand dictate.

Thoughts everyone?


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I was in a hurry , so I mounted my PC690 under the extension of my table saw . It looks like that particle board / melamine stuff , and I countersunk screws into my router base and have had no issues at all . I put a bit in the router and let it carve right threw, then went to the biggest bit I use and repeated . Probably not a good practice but it worked . 
There couldn’t be a weaker material imo , and it works just fine for me . Someday I’ll install a plate , but for now it’s certainly working for what I wanted


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## Biagio (Mar 2, 2013)

Hi Steve,
You don’t say what you plan to mount to top onto, but you could use a double layer of the board you have in mind. Cut a hole big enough for the base of the router in the lower board, and then do what Rick says with the upper board, once you have drilled through and secured the router with countersunk bolts.
I imagine you will use plywood, particleboard or mdf, as they are pretty flat. Glue and screw (from underneath) the two boards together - quite solid. Depending on the frame onto which you will mount, you can place some cross-braces fairly close to the router base (be sure not to impeded the movement of the handles, or you will lose depth), to further counteract sagging. 
I have had a top made from Formica (kitchen countertop 32mm) for more than 30 years, with no problems.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Does the router have a removable plastic base attached to a metal one? If so remove the plastic part and screw the metal part to the top. In either case the counter sunk screws should hold since that is how you would attach the router to a plate. One other thing be sure that once the router is attached you will be able to raise it high enough to use the bits. If it can't be raised high enough because of the thickness of the table you can route the underside out. Check out used office equipment stores you might be able to get a top from a modular cubical which is perfect. You will find that a 4 foot long table gives just the right amount of support for just about anything that you might make. If you happen to have this type of a circle cutter you can make a series of rings that snap together because it cuts bevel edges in 1/4" plexaglass. Doing so you could get away without a plate but still be able to have the benefit of different size holes for the bits like you do on a plate.
https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-55-Cutter-Adjustable/dp/B00004T7P1/ref=asc_df_B00004T7P1/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584345016406707&psc=1


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Steve, it seems to me you are pretty much making a shop-made table using a pricy bit of material rather than a cheapie with plywood. I'd get a refund and use a bit of that to buy a couple of pieces of 18mm ply and build a table that way. Put it up on some saw horses. Or get a chest of drawers from a second hand store, scrap a couple of drawers and use the chest's top to mount the router. Slide a thin piece of ply atop one of the drawer slides to catch the sawdust and you have a nice router stand with storage.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've never screwed a router to a table yet and neither have many others. Gravity works perfectly well to hold it down and once you have a piece of wood over it there is even less chance of it moving. You just need to machine the opening to be a close fit to prevent any side to side movement. This allows you to take the router out of the table to change bits which makes that job much easier. I also don't leave the router in the table hanging from the plate which reduces the possibility of it sagging.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Keep in mind that if you screw your router to the wood, you'll affect how deep you can cut. Most plates are somewhere around 3/8 inch (~10mm) and if you remove the router base-plate there is hardly any difference in depth of cut. As Biagio said, two layers might be a solution if depth of cut matters to you.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Yup, a router plate is a very good idea. With a 2 layer table, cut the top opening to fit the plate, the bottom layer smaller to form a ridge on which the plate sits. Put screws or Kreg levelers in place to raise and level the plate with the top and you're done. You can probably find a plate pre drilled for your router, which means you'll likely be able to use the stock nuts to hold it in place. Aluminum plates are a better choice for a heavy router, but you can use phenolic if you remove the router and plate for storage. Left in the table, phenolic (plastic) plates can sag over time. The leveler screws are about $19 a set on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/PRS3040-Prec...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000VRML54

Router plates run in the $30 range, https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as=tools&field-keywords=aluminum+router+plate Order one pre drilled for your router if you can.

I think phenolic plates are about 10 less and I think you can get them pre drilled as well. Mine have been aluminum. 

Second illustration shows how the 2 layer plate fits, plus a different kind of leveling screw setup. Pretty easy to make.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Yes it does*



mgmine said:


> Does the router have a removable plastic base attached to a metal one? If so remove the plastic part and screw the metal part to the top. In either case the counter sunk screws should hold since that is how you would attach the router to a plate. One other thing be sure that once the router is attached you will be able to raise it high enough to use the bits. If it can't be raised high enough because of the thickness of the table you can route the underside out. Check out used office equipment stores you might be able to get a top from a modular cubical which is perfect. You will find that a 4 foot long table gives just the right amount of support for just about anything that you might make. If you happen to have this type of a circle cutter you can make a series of rings that snap together because it cuts bevel edges in 1/4" plexaglass. Doing so you could get away without a plate but still be able to have the benefit of different size holes for the bits like you do on a plate.
> https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-55-Cutter-Adjustable/dp/B00004T7P1/ref=asc_df_B00004T7P1/?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid={creative}&hvpos={adposition}&hvnetw=o&hvrand={random}&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl={devicemodel}&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584345016406707&psc=1


Thanks Art, yes, I was planning on removing the plastic base. 
My concern was more around the wood material and using the original mounting screws (assuming they are long enough) being strong enough to hold the weight of the router.
I can absolutely make the board(s) holding the router solid enough, but should I take enough material out to make the mounting say 10mm, I want to be sure it'll hold the router.
That's where I think the metal inserts have the advantage.

I have hole cutters for my drill, so cutting the hole for bits to pass through will be easy, but I don't know how they would go for cutting rings - I may look into that if necessary


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Well, I'm considering all options*



DesertRatTom said:


> Steve, it seems to me you are pretty much making a shop-made table using a pricy bit of material rather than a cheapie with plywood. I'd get a refund and use a bit of that to buy a couple of pieces of 18mm ply and build a table that way. Put it up on some saw horses. Or get a chest of drawers from a second hand store, scrap a couple of drawers and use the chest's top to mount the router. Slide a thin piece of ply atop one of the drawer slides to catch the sawdust and you have a nice router stand with storage.


Thanks Tom.

I was planning on mounting the whole lot on an old cabinet once I get my hands on it, similar to what you describe. I do have a board I could use as a trial piece and mount onto some sawhorses. I guess I just wanted to finesse a bit more.
The cheapie table was only $69, just slightly more than the price of the external power switch I'd still want to buy anyway, so I'm not too worried about cannibalising it.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Ah yes, but.....*



TenGees said:


> Keep in mind that if you screw your router to the wood, you'll affect how deep you can cut. Most plates are somewhere around 3/8 inch (~10mm) and if you remove the router base-plate there is hardly any difference in depth of cut. As Biagio said, two layers might be a solution if depth of cut matters to you.



Hey Paul, thank you.

Depth of cut is always important, and I'd like to make sure I don't cut too much functionality out. I think the router in question has a reasonably good depth as part of its setup (untested), but I do worry mostly about the weight of it.
I wasn't sure whether I wanted to take some of the top material out to make it thinner or not, but I do know where I can get a decent set of collet extensions if I think I have a depth issue.


Mind you, I'm happy to be guided on what everyone thinks of those for most general use. I'm not up to using 30mm bits as yet, and I'm not sure I'd want a fancy bit in an extension on the table.....
Experiences welcome


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> Yup, a router plate is a very good idea. With a 2 layer table, cut the top opening to fit the plate, the bottom layer smaller to form a ridge on which the plate sits. Put screws or Kreg levelers in place to raise and level the plate with the top and you're done. You can probably find a plate pre drilled for your router, which means you'll likely be able to use the stock nuts to hold it in place. Aluminum plates are a better choice for a heavy router, but you can use phenolic if you remove the router and plate for storage. Left in the table, phenolic (plastic) plates can sag over time. The leveler screws are about $19 a set on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/PRS3040-Prec...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B000VRML54
> 
> Router plates run in the $30 range, https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_...as=tools&field-keywords=aluminum+router+plate Order one pre drilled for your router if you can.
> 
> ...




Thanks Tom. I have seen the Kreg and generic aluminium plates and their availability. Kreg plates seem to be more than double that price in Aussie dollars, whereas the generic aluminium plates vary from around $30AUD upwards and may or may not include rings. Funny enough I've seen some phenolic plates more expensive than aluminium!
Most of the sellers on EBay don't seem to have the details of the predrilled holes to check against, but I may ask a couple of them if I go down this path.
We seem to have less options over here than what you all have in the larger market space. We seem to still be playing catch-up on thsi side of the world more often than not.

I'm beginning to lean toward using a plate just because of the weight and to get the cut depth.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Using an insert?*



Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've never screwed a router to a table yet and neither have many others. Gravity works perfectly well to hold it down and once you have a piece of wood over it there is even less chance of it moving. You just need to machine the opening to be a close fit to prevent any side to side movement. This allows you to take the router out of the table to change bits which makes that job much easier. I also don't leave the router in the table hanging from the plate which reduces the possibility of it sagging.



Hi Chuck, thanks for that, I presume from what you've written you're referring to using a plate in a table which the router is screwed to rather than directly to a wooden table surface which I was initially referring to.

I do take your point about leaving the router and plate in situ, although I would expect if the material for the top was suitably strengthened, such as Biagio suggested, this should be less of an issue.

All in all this is a good learning curve, and I really appreciate all contributions, thanks folks.
Love this forum.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Hi Steve,good to have you back again. I purchased the Kreg phenolic plate some time back & it cost $76.00.If you also go this route,make sure to follow instructions re using a Forstner bit to drill out the corners for the insert plate prior to routing the sides & ends.You will see what I mean when you read the instructions. Best wishes, James jj777746.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

In my experience the screws are strong enough. You want them as long as necessary to hold the router but if the wood is strong then they will hold the router. Don't forget that the router is held to a plate with the screws.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Makes sense*



mgmine said:


> In my experience the screws are strong enough. You want them as long as necessary to hold the router but if the wood is strong then they will hold the router. Don't forget that the router is held to a plate with the screws.


Thanks Art. I agree, although I wonder if the wood would slog out over time, adding to the vibration and inaccuracy.
I'm probably going to order a plate off eBay for cheap and have a crack. If I don't get it right, I've learned some new things, and I can always go back to the wood.
Having said that, I might try the wood out while waiting for delivery just for fun 

That way I can start getting comfortable before I really have to get down to business!
Mrs Fizgig has a few projects in mind (buffet, games storage cabinet, coffee table for starters) to go with the kitchen table I made last year.

Since she's progressing in her interior design course, there have already started to be shifts in how the house is set up, plus moving to a new rental, so it's an excuse to change things.....


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

I have the same router and wondered if screwing it to the top plate would be strong enough, the screws are only M4 countersunk. So I went the other way and got some 12mm gal round bar (from Bunnings) and fed two lengths through where the guide goes, I even use those thumb screws to hold them tightly in place. If you make a table with cross pieces they can be pretty thick (70mm x 35mm), then rout 12mm wide and little deeper slots that coincide with the 12mm bar in the router. The router then sits with the bar in these slots level with the top of the cross supports in your table. You can screw the top plate over the top of this so you can remove the router, the router cannot move and the top of the table can't sag using this method.

You can easily remove the springs and the handles from this router.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The M4 screws should be okay. My Hitachis are using M5s which aren't much bigger. You could go with a wooden insert for starters. I would go with a good quality ply of about 12mm. That would be only about 2 mm thicker than most plates and 4 thicker than the thinnest plates. Lots of us have just screwed a router to a piece of ply for a top and used a 2 x 4 with a cutout for a fence when we needed something quick.


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The M4 screws should be okay. My Hitachis are using M5s which aren't much bigger. You could go with a wooden insert for starters. I would go with a good quality ply of about 12mm. That would be only about 2 mm thicker than most plates and 4 thicker than the thinnest plates. Lots of us have just screwed a router to a piece of ply for a top and used a 2 x 4 with a cutout for a fence when we needed something quick.


My way is probably a little over the top, but when you start up the Makita it gives a bit of a kick as there's no soft start, using my method its as solid as a rock. The other good thing about this method is that you can use a thinner top without sacrificing strength.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Good to be back*



jj777746 said:


> Hi Steve,good to have you back again. I purchased the Kreg phenolic plate some time back & it cost $76.00.If you also go this route,make sure to follow instructions re using a Forstner bit to drill out the corners for the insert plate prior to routing the sides & ends.You will see what I mean when you read the instructions. Best wishes, James jj777746.


Thanks James, good to be back online with the community again. It's great and I feel a good camaraderie here. 
Sadly I don't have forstner bits in my repertoire yet, that's on the "must purchase" list 

Harrysin posted an interesting idea in a lobby post he started (for me) about mounting a plate in a table, that uses the item you want the thickness of to set the router depth. Very interesting idea, that could also be useful.

Oh, I better go buy a flush cut bit with the bearing near the shaft (top or bottom depending on who you talk to), otherwise I might have fun templating...


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

So I bought an aluminium plate from a seller in Sydney, should arrive Monday
I bought my flush trim bit with the bearing as required.

And my wife was kind enough to push me to buy the wood to actually make the table base, and not just the cheapest crappiest wood either.
Hoping to put the base together over the weekend, and sort the top out early next week.

As I have two melamine covered pieces of chipboard, I guess I better get gluing them together. But I was wondering, should I cut a hole out of the bottom one before I do anything, or glue them and do the whole thing in one go?

Any thoughts?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think I'd cut the two holes separately, the bottom one smaller than the top so you have a shelf to keep the plate from falling through as you move it in and out of the table (that WILL happen). You can even pre drill holes in the bottom ledge and feed some screws up through that layer. Flatten or remove the tips and use them to adjust the plate flush with the top. Apply the $20 you save on the Kreg levelers to a other uses. Pre drill all holes on the underside of your melamine coated low density fiber board. It is not very strong. If it's coated on both sides, you probably won't be able to glue it without finding some sort of plastic compatible glue. Contact cement might work, but after it dried, the instant you press the two coated sides together, they cannot be moved. So you need to aligh them carefully before you let them touch. Use some small dowels or sticks to keep them apart until they're aligned, then, holding them apart, remove the sticks on one side and lower the top down so the edges stick. Use your fingers to keep corners and edge aligned. Once the edge is stuck, remove the other dowels or sticks and lower the top. Once they touch, they're NEVER going to come apart. 

If you can, use a roller to apply the contact cement as evenly as you can. Let it dry completely. You probably won't need to use screws to hold the two pieces together, which will make it easier to cut dodos for T-Track in the future. 

Sounds like you are going to have a pretty neat table. And congratulations on having a spouse who insisted you get the good stuff. My Jean is that way too.

I've attached pictures of shop made fences. Not too difficult to make something that lets you pull the sawdust out at the bit. The picture of the solid fence is really nice and simple to make, and good dust collection. Notice the advanced clamping device. :wink:


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

Thanks Tom, really appreciate all of that info!

Started on the to today. Both pieces for the top have melamine on both sides, which is good and bad. Good from a stiffness perspective, but as you rightly point out, gluing could be a challenge. I have some liquid nails I think might do the job, but I may test it first 

I've cut out the top. I did a smaller hole on the bottom as suggested, just small enough to support the top with the space for the plate routed out - that way it gives it some more strength with the weight of the router and plate.

I've attached a photo of the plate resting in the top, pre-gluing. Routing that was actually good fun.

I'm a little concerned, in that the back side is not flat, but the feeding edge is, and so is the trailing edge. Front edge slightly raised also. Problem I've got I think is that despite my best efforts the melamine boards may not be as straight as I thought they were.

Nonetheless, if I clamp them in a good fashion when I glue them, then hopefully this helps. Being melamine coated I'm not confident.
But still, it's only my first table. 

I'll start the table base assembly tomorrow.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Are you saying the boards are melamine coated on the backside, the side you want to glue?
Rubber cement will work (HDPL type), and I'm pretty sure construction adhesive is also OK, but my experience with carpenter's glue has been really bad with melamine.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Yes, both sides are melamine*



DaninVan said:


> Are you saying the boards are melamine coated on the backside, the side you want to glue?
> Rubber cement will work (HDPL type), and I'm pretty sure construction adhesive is also OK, but my experience with carpenter's glue has been really bad with melamine.


And I can confirm the liquid nails type construction glue I tested on two cutout scrap last night have adhered *really* well, so I'll use that to bond the two boards.

That should keep the boards safely together and provide a top that doesn't sag in a hurry.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

So, a little light sanding in a couple of spots, and I've got my plate pretty darn close to level I think. Progress is a good thing.
Meanwhile, I've been given an older scroll saw by some friends cleaning out their shed before doing house extensions. Been down and bought new blades for it, so we'll have to test it and see how well it goes. More interesting times!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

1fizgig said:


> So, a little light sanding in a couple of spots, and I've got my plate pretty darn close to level I think. Progress is a good thing.
> Meanwhile, I've been given an older scroll saw by some friends cleaning out their shed before doing house extensions. Been down and bought new blades for it, so we'll have to test it and see how well it goes. More interesting times!!


I think I would have opted for putting screws below the plate instead . This way you could turn them to level the plate . 
Or install those screw levellers from Kreg. 

Looking forward to seeing your progress , thanks for sharing .

I bought an Incra table and never got around to building it . I will someday , and also build a table as your doing . 
Personally from what I’ve learned here , I’d never buy a table again, and would much rather build one from scatch


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I had a discussion with a rep from the Franklin company that makes Titebond at a woodworking show once. They have a melamine glue and it will bond melamine to melamine but he said only over a short distance. The reason why is that the solvent (water in this case) can't escape or dry out. So two small pieces might work but that doesn't necessarily mean two large pieces will. If you insist on using two panels then I would press the two together and then pull them back apart and let the glue solvent flash off some before joining them back together.

I've made one or two tops out of melamine board but I only used one layer and had no issues with it but I put a good frame under it, including cross members as close to the router as feasible. This included grooves for t-track so where those grooves were was only 1/4" thick. That table sat in a shed and went from 40 above in the summer to -45 in the winter and over a period of 5 or 6 years during the time I had it and my son in law had it it stayed perfectly flat.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Well, I thought about it*



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I think I would have opted for putting screws below the plate instead . This way you could turn them to level the plate .
> Or install those screw levellers from Kreg.
> 
> Looking forward to seeing your progress , thanks for sharing .
> ...


But I figure I'd try it out as is first. I can always add screws or Kreg levellers if things aren't staying as good as I want. Next up is to sort out the fence. The one I had on the cheapie is a bit short in that the locking slides are where the plate is.

I either rout out some new holes, use clamps, or just make a new one outta lumber. Not sure what I'll do yet, still in the thought process. I glued the melamine this afternoon, so am expecting a rock-solid tabletop tomorrow 

Legs to be framed up after that, top attached, power controls attached, then screw in the router and I should be all go!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" I've been given an older scroll saw by some friends cleaning out their shed before doing house extensions"
-Steve

It's an older tool so you'll be doing yourself a huge favor by doing a serious cleaning and especially re-greasing inside the transmission housing.
Check the brushes for wear and thoroughly clean out the armature housing. Check the bearings to make sure they're running freely!
Last but really important is to readjust all the blade bearing parts; slop in the supporting parts ruins the accuracy of your cuts.
(Mine has an exposed roller bearing that needs to be cleaned and lubed fairly frequently or it develops a nasty wear groove in its outer surface.)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

1fizgig said:


> But I figure I'd try it out as is first. I can always add screws or Kreg levellers if things aren't staying as good as I want. Next up is to sort out the fence. The one I had on the cheapie is a bit short in that the locking slides are where the plate is.
> 
> I either rout out some new holes, use clamps, or just make a new one outta lumber. Not sure what I'll do yet, still in the thought process. I glued the melamine this afternoon, so am expecting a rock-solid tabletop tomorrow
> 
> Legs to be framed up after that, top attached, power controls attached, then screw in the router and I should be all go!


It sounds like your making progress . I just thought this sounded like a difficult way to get a plate to fit perfectly level. 
I haven’t successfully built one yet , and don’t mean to send you in the wrong direction. We all learn from our builds .
My first attempt at a torsion box underneath a router table was a failure . 
I learned from it though , and I suspect the next one will be fine


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Man, you've been hard at it! Try to get the contact cement as even a coat as possible so you don't have any lumps. if it isn't perfectly flat, you can put the flattened trusses under it, and if you make another top, you can reuse the trusses. And of course you can always do another. I've done that with a number of projects. First one a little catawumpus, the next is always far better.

Looks to me you have the makings of a woodworker!


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Thanks Tom*



DesertRatTom said:


> Man, you've been hard at it! Try to get the contact cement as even a coat as possible so you don't have any lumps. if it isn't perfectly flat, you can put the flattened trusses under it, and if you make another top, you can reuse the trusses. And of course you can always do another. I've done that with a number of projects. First one a little catawumpus, the next is always far better.
> 
> Looks to me you have the makings of a woodworker!



I'd like to think I'm on the road at least


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

Okay, made progress today.

Pics attached

Frame completed
Top loosely sat on top
Top secured and router mounted 

Only things left: fence, power box to be mounted, and potentially wheels added to make it more easily moved about.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looking good Steve


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

That's really nice! Has the bones to add drawers and a shelf--good future projects that will teach you a lot! Has it turned out to be a little more flat? Next comes a fence.

The Ttrack in the picture that runs across the front makes it easy to attach a featherboard to press your workpiece against the fence. Notice to two slots cut in the top near each edge? You can place a bolt through the bottom with a star knob on the top so you can move the fence just where you want it, then tighten the star knob a bit to lock it in place. You only need one end to be movable. 

You might look up videos at YouTube of Marc Sommerfeld demonstrating how he makes a variety of items. He has a company that makes premium router related gear and high end bits. He started as a cabinet maker and his technique could help you learn the best way to make things, it sure helped me learn to love my router. There are at least a dozen videos, long and very thorough. Sommerfeld uses only his own gear, but that's about it for promotion. I purchased a set of all his videos and watch them whenever I have a project using a router--refreshes my understanding. Here's a basic one on cabinet making:


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Thanks again Tom*



DesertRatTom said:


> That's really nice! Has the bones to add drawers and a shelf--good future projects that will teach you a lot! Has it turned out to be a little more flat? Next comes a fence.
> 
> The Ttrack in the picture that runs across the front makes it easy to attach a featherboard to press your workpiece against the fence. Notice to two slots cut in the top near each edge? You can place a bolt through the bottom with a star knob on the top so you can move the fence just where you want it, then tighten the star knob a bit to lock it in place. You only need one end to be movable.
> 
> You might look up videos at YouTube of Marc Sommerfeld demonstrating how he makes a variety of items. He has a company that makes premium router related gear and high end bits. He started as a cabinet maker and his technique could help you learn the best way to make things, it sure helped me learn to love my router. There are at least a dozen videos, long and very thorough. Sommerfeld uses only his own gear, but that's about it for promotion. I purchased a set of all his videos and watch them whenever I have a project using a router--refreshes my understanding. Here's a basic one on cabinet making: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klv0jzWD26w



It definitely has the bones for drawers and a shelf - they're what I had in mind with building the lower support frame! 

It's all come out really flat at this stage, so I'm really pleased. In regards the fence and featherboards, does it make any sense to have featherboards mounted in the fence pointed down also (obviously adjustable or able to be removed)? The cheapie table fence came with two mounted that way, and I could see some benefit, but I haven't really noticed anyone else doing this?

I understand needing only one end of a fence to move, but is there any advantage in having both ends movable?


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> Notice to two slots cut in the top near each edge? You can place a bolt through the bottom with a star knob on the top so you can move the fence just where you want it, then tighten the star knob a bit to lock it in place. You only need one end to be movable.


I bought a bunch of M6 star knobs off ebay, they are as cheap as chips and of course you just get M6 hex head or cup head bolts from Bunnings etc.

Get the ones with the hole all the way through, if you order them from China they take a long time, there are Aussie sellers but you pay more.........


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Nice table Steve,I'll be building a new one soon but not as wide as yours,which is looking real good so far. James.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Mine isn't that wide*



jj777746 said:


> Nice table Steve,I'll be building a new one soon but not as wide as yours,which is looking real good so far. James.


Just a little over 300mm if I recall correctly. The photos make it look wider than it is.

From memory the plate measured 300 x 235 x 8mm if that gives you some perspective.

I was so happy with the plate: took a chance and the holes were exactly where I needed them to be, and the screws provided fit great.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Looks good, when you hook up the power you should consider a plug and switch that will operate together. That way you can have a shop vac turn on when the router turns on. As far as the shop vac goes Rockler sells a nice adapter that you can screw on to the back of the fence for dust collection.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

Your table is looking very nice, Steve. I still need to make a new fence for mine. So I'll be following to see what you've decided on. I'd like something that has: sliding faces, T-track, dust collection. I will probably use the same method for locking the fence that I added to my old fence... https://www.routerforums.com/attach...4479-what-ive-been-playing-fencelock_1284.jpg https://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/136091-what-ive-been-playing.html


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Paul's lock down is very clever and pretty simple to make. You will definitely want a dust port above the table, since sawdust buildup under the workpiece will lift it just enough to spoil the piece. Do sweep the sawdust away before you work each piece. Also, a small chamfer on the front, bottom edge of your fence helps with sawdust relief. The suggestion to use the Rockler dust port behind your fence is $10 and a very good item. https://www.rockler.com/router-table-dust-port

Don't know what sawdust collection system you have, but you really want to pick up as much sawdust from the top of the table as possible. If I were starting over on the dust collection road, I'd go with a cyclone system such as the Dust Deputy. 

My table is a Rockler on a steel frame base. However, I've enclosed the sides and back and have a box that surrounds the router itself. You might want to put a door over the opening to reach the router, and to contain the sawdust. 

Since we're talking dust collection (DC), Harbor Freight has a 2 hp (probably overstated a bit), DC unit that goes on sale for about $200 from time to time, often with a 20 or 25 percent coupon. I have two (for different tool areas) and paid about $150 and $160 for them on sale. With a dust deputy mounted on a chip collection bucket, with the HF unit pulling air like mad, you get a pretty decent setup. I have one long hose that is moved from tool to tool, rather than tubes running to each tool with blast gates.

In dust collection, don't mix brands of parts. For example a 4 inch hose from one company rarely fits another brand's connectors. I finally decided to stick with Rockler's brand (They're closest to me). I have a big box of non-fitting parts that need to be recycled.

At the very least, get a decent dust mask and wear it whenever you go into your shop, not just when working on a project. Don't forget the eye protection. You will not enjoy having a particle fly into your eye!

I think we're all vicariously enjoying your projects. We've all been through it.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just remembered there was a post favoring the HD dust colleciton gadget. A nice entry level choice. https://www.routerforums.com/tool-reviews/130570-home-depot-dustopper-2-1-2-inch-separator.html


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Thanks Art*



mgmine said:


> Looks good, when you hook up the power you should consider a plug and switch that will operate together. That way you can have a shop vac turn on when the router turns on. As far as the shop vac goes Rockler sells a nice adapter that you can screw on to the back of the fence for dust collection.


So the external point with switch I have has only a single outlet, however I anticipate if I wanted to do as you suggest, I could just use a power strip.

I'll likely have to look into more local options first - sadly not that many US woodwork places want to ship to Australia!


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Thanks Paul!*



TenGees said:


> Your table is looking very nice, Steve. I still need to make a new fence for mine. So I'll be following to see what you've decided on. I'd like something that has: sliding faces, T-track, dust collection. I will probably use the same method for locking the fence that I added to my old fence... https://www.routerforums.com/attach...4479-what-ive-been-playing-fencelock_1284.jpg https://www.routerforums.com/show-n-tell/136091-what-ive-been-playing.html


Took me a few seconds to work out the orientation of that picture, but I got there. That thread was helpful too.
I like that locking mechanism, do you have any rubber grip or anything where it grabs the table? And does it adjust at both ends?

I've seen a couple of tables with sliding faces on the fence - what's the advantage to this?


I haven't figured out what to do about the fence still. I took a critical look at the timber I had lying in my wood box, but none of it is perfectly straight. A couple of bits are pretty close. Is there anything you've done to keep your fence true apart from the construction?


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Thanks heaps Tom*



DesertRatTom said:


> Paul's lock down is very clever and pretty simple to make. You will definitely want a dust port above the table, since sawdust buildup under the workpiece will lift it just enough to spoil the piece. Do sweep the sawdust away before you work each piece. Also, a small chamfer on the front, bottom edge of your fence helps with sawdust relief. The suggestion to use the Rockler dust port behind your fence is $10 and a very good item. https://www.rockler.com/router-table-dust-port
> 
> Don't know what sawdust collection system you have, but you really want to pick up as much sawdust from the top of the table as possible. If I were starting over on the dust collection road, I'd go with a cyclone system such as the Dust Deputy.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate the thoughts and guidance. I have to admit I don't have a proper dust collection system in place. I have a vacuum cleaner that cost not a lot, and that's all at the moment. I _always_ wear a mask though. And eye protection. Since getting my glasses, I've made sure to get good ones that go over them as well. Handy being in a workplace that provides them for staff out in the plant area, as though I don't actually need them for my job I still had access to the gear.

That chamfer idea is good, I can see how that would help reduce some of the chance of dust sitting under the workpiece. I wonder why aluminium fences don't seem to incorporate that?

I'll have to get a decent dust removal system soon, and otherwise I've been working outside to minimise the dust laying in the garage. Gives me more fresh air and less complaint from Mrs Fizgig :grin:

I'll probably look to more local resellers, as my experience has been it's either cost-prohibitive to ship from the US or companies just don't do it. But those suggestions give me a talking point and something to compare with, thank you.

Ideally I think something mobile with a long hose would suit me more, as I can't build-in to the garage as we're renting.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

Oh cool, Rockler automatically changed the currency to AUD.
$14.32 AUD for that router table dust port
With shipping it'd be $41.91.......

There's a place over here called Timbecon whom I've dealt with, and I see upon looking they have a few options, so I'll look into that.
Would be cheaper than importing 

They have some shop-vac/dust extractor systems too that don't seem too expensive, so I'll compare what you all have been talking about to see if they come up to snuff.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

1fizgig said:


> So the external point with switch I have has only a single outlet, however I anticipate if I wanted to do as you suggest, I could just use a power strip.
> 
> I'll likely have to look into more local options first - sadly not that many US woodwork places want to ship to Australia!


You could do it with a power strip but why not just add a switched receptacle to the table. One flip of the switch and both the router and vac go on.

https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/outlet-switch-electrical-diagrams.html


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

1fizgig said:


> So the external point with switch I have has only a single outlet, however I anticipate if I wanted to do as you suggest, I could just use a power strip.
> 
> I'll likely have to look into more local options first - sadly not that many US woodwork places want to ship to Australia!


Just get a double power point with one of those wall mounting blocks for safety, then get a short extension cord and cut the socket end off, wire the cut off end of the cord to the double power point and fix it to your router table.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*I could....*



mgmine said:


> You could do it with a power strip but why not just add a switched receptacle to the table. One flip of the switch and both the router and vac go on.
> 
> https://www.do-it-yourself-help.com/outlet-switch-electrical-diagrams.html


But I'm not an electrician! 

And at the moment, I don't have a dedicated workspace or shop vac, and not likely to in the near future, so it isn't practical.
But it's a good suggestion for the future. thank you.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

1fizgig said:


> ...I like that locking mechanism, do you have any rubber grip or anything where it grabs the table? And does it adjust at both ends?
> 
> I've seen a couple of tables with sliding faces on the fence - what's the advantage to this?...


Yes I have a lock on each end of the fence. You have to make your fence longer than the table to accommodate them. My table has melamine on both sides and I didn't use rubber on mine. You don't need to tighten the knobs very hard and it's solid. I used C-clamps before these, I wish that I had done it sooner... it is very easy to do, don't need to go find the C-clamps, easy to use, cheap and holds very well. My table has melamine on both sides. The only modification to an existing fence is a slot on each side.

You can loosen one end and nudge the fence for small adjustments. The gap between the edge of the table top and the L-blocks will limit how far you can go though.

The sliding faces let you adjust the opening for the bit (kinda zero-clearance). If you want to clean the edge of a board you can shim the out-feed side so you don't get snipe near the end of your cut. Basically: if you take off a tiny bit off a board, the fence's out-feed side will be that much away from your material. When you come near the end of your pass, the in-feed side isn't enough to guide the piece so when the material moves back on the out-feed side, you get a snipe in your cut. So shim the out-feed (playing cards?), use a straightedge to align the out-feed with the bit. Now when you're making a pass the out-feed supports the work too... no gap.

I just used construction lumber to make the locks (about 1-1/2 inch thick). Your top needs to extend past the table sides enough for the locks. I didn't want to cut slots or T-track into my top, to preserve it's integrity as much as possible.

The lower section and angle blocks on the back of a fence will help to keep it square. I intend to use man-made wood for my fence (no grain to warp).


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

TenGees said:


> Keep in mind that if you screw your router to the wood, you'll affect how deep you can cut. Most plates are somewhere around 3/8 inch (~10mm) and if you remove the router base-plate there is hardly any difference in depth of cut. As Biagio said, two layers might be a solution if depth of cut matters to you.


Paul, on page one what program did you use to draw the image you posted?


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

jj777746 said:


> Nice table Steve,I'll be building a new one soon but not as wide as yours,which is looking real good so far. James.[/QUOTE
> 
> Make it as long as possible you need good support for the outfeed and infeed. If you don't have the support it makes it difficult to keep longboards like molding steady.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just got back to this thread. You're really on top of this.

If you don't have a jointer, it can be hard to find wood that is really straight. It is possible to use a table saw to cut a straight edge, but it will require making a carrier that runs in a miter slot and holds your not-straight piece solidly. The carrier type of jig requires you have one really straight edge, and the best way to get that is to use a factory edge on plywood to start with. You cut a long strip off the end and that will produce a straight edge on the cut off piece as well as give you a new straight edge on the leftover. You will need this for your fence as well. 

You can also use a large hand plane to flatten the edges and thickness of a board, but for the wood you buy at local stores, the table or circular saw method will work for far less money. 

That straight edge will form part of your triangle braces for the fence, plus a straight edge for the flat part of the fence as well. Table saws are by far the best way to cut these items, but it has to be set up correctly so that the blade is aligned with the miter slot, and the fence aligned with the slot and blade, but tilted very slightly away from the blade (about 4/1000 will do. 

You will also need a straight edge to guide your router as you cut the grooves to hold the T-track, if you choose to use them. Once you have your fence set up, it's pretty easy to cut grooves.

I noticed awhile back that you wondered about mounting T-track on the face of the fence. Yes, it's a good idea because you can mount a feather board vertically to hold your workpiece down. Pix of multiple featherboards in use. 

Personally, I think it's best to have not only the solid fixed fence, but to put T-track on it to mount a second split fence in front of that. Tbolts link the two, and you can shim them to make both sides align perfectly across the front surface. Use card stock for shims. That way you have proper support all the way across without having a slight notch as you cross the center of an uneven fence.

An incentive for doing the fence just right is that you can now use the router to flatten one edge of uneven stock on the router. You add a long shim(s) to push the left half front fence out about 1/16 (1-2mm) and line the straight bit up with the forward fence. When you run a piece through it, it will gradually shave off the crooked part. This is what a jointer does, but it also can flatten a wider piece. Jointers are not cheap. Start with pressure against the right fence, then as the piece moves over the left fence, shift the pressure to the left. This works for mildly curved stock, but not for badly crooked or twisted stock. 

Last word on speed squares. They are seldom really square. When you buy one, pop for aluminum and take your draftsman's triangle with you. You will use the draftsman's square a lot to check for 90 degree angles, and occasionally for 45 degrees. Hopefully your fence will be 90 to the table, but if your draftsman's triangle says no, consider building up one side of the bottom with tape until it is. 

If you don't have a table saw, you can use an edge guide to make that cut. See pix.

Making right angle triangles to support the fence a perfect 90 degree cut is more challenging without a table saw, but you can use a circular saw with a speed square. Hook the wide edge of the speed square on one straight edge and run the saw against it. Cut extras and check for the exact 90 angle with a good draftsman's triangle. Keep and use the good ones and reject the ones that are not as close to perfect as you can measure. If you can make the triangle supports out of solid wood, not ply, they will be easier to install with screws and/or glue. Pre drill holes for screws!

When cutting with a circular saw, the face of your piece should be down to reduce chip out. Another trick is to put painter's tape on your cut line, preferably on both sides. Rub it down firmly. Doesn't prevent all chipout, but greatly improves it. 

Rather than spend a lot of money on the Rockler router fence dust port, you might just want to add a box behind the opening area of the fence with a simple dust port on top. Sometimes you can find pvc fittings that will work with your dust collection hose. That way you can use local parts.

For sawdust collection, given your situation, consider a combination of the biggest shop vac you can get (2.5inch hose), and a Dust Devil cyclone with bucket. Will work for you for a long time, given what you're doing. Won't break the bank and will do a good job.

Wow, this post went all over the place. Be well down there.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

You know, you might be able to make really good cuts without a table saw. The picture is of a very nice jig someone posted that allows you to use your circular saw with great precision. There's a video on how to do it as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=H0BZLbW1lvQ

A similar, but smaller jig will allow you go make dados and grooves with your freehand router. Here's the jig someone here made.


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

ranman said:


> Paul, on page one what program did you use to draw the image you posted?


I have an old version of Illustrator from when I was working. I'm very comfortable with it - used it for ages. It (surprisingly) still works quite well on a much newer OS. There are a few glitches but nothing I can't cope with.

A cheap (free) alternative would be Inkscape. "Path operations" and "snap to grid" are basics you need to learn to get comfortable with this type of program.


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

*Wow! Thanks Tom!*



DesertRatTom said:


> Just got back to this thread. You're really on top of this.
> 
> If you don't have a jointer, it can be hard to find wood that is really straight. It is possible to use a table saw to cut a straight edge, but it will require making a carrier that runs in a miter slot and holds your not-straight piece solidly. The carrier type of jig requires you have one really straight edge, and the best way to get that is to use a factory edge on plywood to start with. You cut a long strip off the end and that will produce a straight edge on the cut off piece as well as give you a new straight edge on the leftover. You will need this for your fence as well.
> 
> ...




That was a lot of info, and I'll have to make sure I re-read it to take it all in. Thank you.
Yes, sadly no table saw in my garage, or one in my immediate future. But I have managed so far with the mitre and circular saws. Mostly I'm worried about the straightness of the fence, and maintaining that straightness over time. 
I guess I also need to learn to not be so precious about it, as I could always make another 

I still struggle with the concept of making mistakes and the "cost" of making those mistakes in wood. Time I'm not so worried about, but I have yet to learn all the coll things I can do with more scraps of wood. It's part of my journey of discovery and letting go.


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## AndyP73 (May 15, 2020)

Great stuff Steve! Thanks for the thread,

Andy


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## 1fizgig (Feb 11, 2018)

AndyP73 said:


> Great stuff Steve! Thanks for the thread,
> 
> Andy


My pleasure Andy - it's useful info for me, I figure many others should be able to get something good out of it too!


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## TenGees (Sep 12, 2012)

1fizgig said:


> Took me a few seconds to work out the orientation of that picture, but I got there. That thread was helpful too.
> I like that locking mechanism, do you have any rubber grip or anything where it grabs the table? And does it adjust at both ends?
> 
> I've seen a couple of tables with sliding faces on the fence - what's the advantage to this?
> ...


I have no rubber or anything and it works well. There's one of those on each end of the fence. For small adjustments you can loosen just one end and tap the fence. It takes very few turns of the knobs to loosen or tighten. The fence needs to be longer than the table to accommodate the locks. I added a few construction notes, later in that thread. By the way, that's not my invention but I can't remember where I saw it.

The sliding fences have two advantages that interest me: 1- The opening can be adjusted to the size of the bit (semi zero clearance). 2- You can loosen the out-feed side and insert a shim. Then you can clean the edge of the work-piece. (see the diagram) This shim is highly exaggerated - maybe a playing card or two. Adjust the fence until the out-feed is even with the bit. I used to clean the edge of plexi like this at work. Without the shim there isn't support for the work-piece on the out-feed side.


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## ranman (Oct 27, 2017)

For that split fence you mentioned, I used some 'hobby stock' aluminum plate instead of the playing cards. I trimmed it to drop in between the two adjustment screws. It's probably the thicknesd of the cards. 
Hardware stores have flat sheets along with solid and hollow brass, aluminum and stainless tubing. I had a small sheet of aluminum on hand that worked as a spacer for a test run on my new table and fence combo for doing just that.


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## tulowd (Jan 24, 2019)

besides the various thickness inserts mentioned, you could use automotive feeler gages (used for spark plug gaps but also internal engine clearances setup) that are inexpensive and come in a set for just a few bux.

or, Freud makes a split precision micro adjust fence base that uses two large threaded rods with ends - I bought a used one for about $40, spent an hour taking it apart and cleaning it up. One turn = 1/16" IIRC.


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