# Combination Squares



## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

After a few years of woodworking, I have found that I use my combination square almost every time I walk into the shop. Shoot, I've even used it to measure how long I've been out there. In the right weather, it even serves as a highly accurate thermometer (when it's 45 degrees and 90 degrees!!). As I recall, I picked it up at an Ace Hdwe or Tractor Supply (center of the aisle $5 tote--you know the tools), and while it's accurate at 90 deg, it is very difficult to read the ruler. 

A few weeks ago, I was at a client's shop, looked at a Starrett laying on a toolmaker's bench--even in dingy light with no reading glasses I was able to read the rule easily. And, I have no protractor (other than one made of formerly clear plastic). And seeing a recent "tip" about using a center finder to mark around the corners of a board. Well...you get the idea, and you all know where this is leading.

I'm a hobbyist, so as much as I like accuracy, I'm not going to spend $250 to $300 or more on a 4 piece set, so I'm watching the usual places--definitely want 4R scales, quality but not really concerned about the cosmetics so much--i'll be a user not a collector. I'm even okay with a broken spirit level since I'm not doing machining. So, as I'm looking at used I'm checking for the kind of physical abuse that would affect accuracy (Boeshield can take care of the surface, but can't fix 89 degrees). Beyond that and the condition of the markings (I've passed on a few good looking heads simply because I'd have had to replace the rules which screwed up the total pricing), anything not really obvious I should be looking for?

Besides used Starrett, B & S, and Fowler--I've seen a few ads for a mid-ranged priced set made by PEC, anyone familiar or taken a look?? Any other quality manufacturers that are accurate and less favored in the secondary market that deliver some bang for the buck? Since it's winter with an unheated shop, and I'm having foot surgery (again) in a few weeks--I've got a few months to let this itch fester but don't want to pass up a good opportunity. Thanks for any discussion or input you may have.

earl


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Earl
Awful good price if you can get it
I have one love it

Starrett No 11HC Combination Square w Center Head 12" No 4 Rule | eBay


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I've dropped too many from way up ladders to pay more than $10 for one.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Semipro said:


> Earl
> Awful good price if you can get it
> I have one love it
> 
> Starrett No 11HC Combination Square w Center Head 12" No 4 Rule | eBay


That one was already on my watch list!!

Dan--i heard that. i've got a concrete floor, and i've never dropped the $5 model. One of my fears is that i'll get a "good" one and drop it getting it out of the box!!

earl


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> That one was already on my watch list!!
> 
> Dan--i heard that. i've got a concrete floor, and i've never dropped the $5 model. One of my fears is that i'll get a "good" one and drop it getting it out of the box!!
> 
> earl


Wait a minute... I went to look at it and it had 11 seconds left -- it was at $71.85. Isn't that model Starrett go new for $76? At least I thought I saw those somewhere for around that...


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Seems to have a fixed retail of $112. I didn't chase it that far--really want to gather a full set, but I'm willing to piece it together. I see a lot of mics on CL, not many combo squares--and tool makers tend to get focused on the prices. 
earl


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Sounds right for up here(?)...
Rulers, Squares, and Protractors : KMS Tools & Equipment from Vancouver BC, Largest selection of tools in Canada


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

I have 3 of this iGaging and are great.
Amazon.com: igaging square: Tools & Home Improvement


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## tooler2 (Aug 11, 2012)

I have PEC 6'' rules that are nice to read. General is similar to PEC, Mitutoyo is my ''keep in the house'' set and Eclipse from England is my daily user. Starret has a strong collector following leading to exaggerated resale prices.
Rob


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Earl
My brother-in-law was a machinist and when He retired about 10 years ago I bought his complete Starret set for 50 bucks. It must be at least 50 years old and it is still spot on.
I don't know if Starret made more than one quality but this one is very good.
Dennis


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## Roloff (Jan 30, 2009)

Starrett is a good choice, reliable and always for sale somewhere. If cosmetics aren't that important, Ebay is the place to buy this. I'd put aside around $80 for a 12" combo square in excellent condition with everything on it. I've had to buy that twice in the last few years and Ebay was handy.

Mitutoyo is my choice for dial indicators. I've never been as happy with anything else and they are getting too expensive new so I buy these at Ebay too. Take good care of them, they'll go 30 years or more, just like Starrett gear. Theft is more of a problem than wear.

For woodworking, I'm not sure these levels of goods are needed but for setting up machinery, they certainly come in handy.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Some of you may laugh, but I don't care - because if I told you a joke that is exactly the reaction I would be expecting! I am heavily involved in manufacturing. Some of my items are super-precision, others do not require such precision. There is a machine shop side of my business fully-stocked with super-sophisticated Starrett Calipers and all types of Squares, but in my wood shop - I use SWANSON COMBINATION SQUARES. It doesn't take the best manufacturer in town to make a good square. It is a very simple couple of operations and quality control is straightforward. SWANSON squares are marked boldly and are available in big box stores at a reasonable price. They won't break the bank and you won't feel guilty buying them. In the store - just check them against other items of known squareness to verify you're getting something that hasn't been mishandled in shipping or while in the store. Store them carefully in your shop and they should last a very long time. If you lose one or break one - it shouldn't be cause for a nervous breakdown - it's just a square. By the way, I don't buy expensive watches, either; the person I am meeting with will still often be 12.37 minutes late - even if I am using a Timex or a Rolex. So it gets down to taste. If I use a square accurate to a point that a gnat would need to squat-down and use a magnifying glass to see the difference, am I going to be able to set my table saw or SCMS equally accurate? I bet not.

For precision metal working - YES, for wood - don't fool yourself.

Have a nice day,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I bought a generic one about 15-20 years ago with compass level and centre finding heads for $30. Like others have said if something happens to it, it won't ruin my day. A Starrett is $160 for the same setup. That would ruin my day if something happened to it. The one thing I don't find a combo square good for is setting up machinery. For most jobs the 12" blade is too long. For that I bought a 3" machinist's square from Lee Valley for cheap. It is the perfect size for squaring saw blades and jointer fences to vertical.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Claudio; (pardon the lack of accent) is the blade on the igaging comb sq. aluminum or steel? It seems very legible, almost like it's anodized?


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

64 ford said:


> Earl
> My brother-in-law was a machinist and when He retired about 10 years ago I bought his complete Starret set for 50 bucks. It must be at least 50 years old and it is still spot on.
> I don't know if Starret made more than one quality but this one is very good.
> Dennis


Dennis--I was sure hoping there was an offer at the end of your post!! Fortunately I was eating lunch so a napkin was handy to clean up the drool.

Otis--32nds is plenty for me. I just can't read the danged Stanley blade with the lack of resolution and the reflections--even with reading glasses--and a slight shadow completely washes out the marks. I reckon I could pick up a PEC or Starrett blade to use with the Stanley head, then a protractor and a center finder (which would double as a saddle square)--and I'm almost to the edge of a gloat on a kit in decent shape. I have to agree with Dan--Claudio's blade has awesome resolution. 

Part of the pleasure is the thrill of the hunt!!
earl


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## Botelho007 (Sep 23, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Claudio; (pardon the lack of accent) is the blade on the igaging comb sq. aluminum or steel? It seems very legible, almost like it's anodized?



Hi Dan, the blades are made of steel.
They are well evaluated on Amazon.

Do not know if this answer is true, check:
Most Helpful Customer Reviews

Square meets its specified accuracy
By Samuel R. on October 26, 2013
Amazon Verified Purchase
The accuracy is spot on: straight blade, absolutely accurate graduations, and the head and blade are perfectly square over the entire length of the rule. A very accurate combination square at a fraction of the cost of a Starret square. When I called iGaging to question them about the accuracy of the square, before buying, I was told that their squares are made in the same factory as Starret squares - don't know if this is true or not, but in my experience iGaging tools always live up to their specifications.

iGaging 24 Inch Professional Combination Square Heavy Duty w/Stainless Steel 4R Rule Blade - Amazon.com


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## michmags (Nov 25, 2011)

I have a PEC 4" Double Square and it is a gem. High quality, easy to read. I would expect the same from a combination square.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

greenacres2 said:


> Otis--32nds is plenty for me. I just can't read the danged Stanley blade with the lack of resolution and the reflections--even with reading glasses--and a slight shadow completely washes out the marks. I reckon I could pick up a PEC or Starrett blade to use with the Stanley head, then a protractor and a center finder (which would double as a saddle square)--and I'm almost to the edge of a gloat on a kit in decent shape. I have to agree with Dan--Claudio's blade has awesome resolution.
> 
> Part of the pleasure is the thrill of the hunt!!
> earl


I have inexpensive combo-squares... and even though they are okay for what I do and accurate enough for that... that is the biggest problem I have also--> Reading them. Silver on silver (with no contrast between) makes it hard to see what the graduations are.

Now, the one's Claudio linked to. They are in my affordability range and I can see/read the scale on those... Thanks for that link Claudio!


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

We have 2 Empire level combination squares we keep in the bench drawer. My Starrett stays with my the machinist tools. I have checked The Emipres on the surface plate and they are very accurate, almost the same accuracy as my old Starrett, and my Starrett master square. The blades are etched but I have no trouble reading them, as long as I have my specs on. 4-1/4 star rated reviews, still US made, and only $10 on Amazon. Some of the reviews are ridiculous. The blade has 4 scales, 1/8 - 64ths and is reversible.

Empire Level E250 12-Inch Heavy Duty Professional Combination Square w/Etched Stainless Steel Blade and True BlueR Vial - Amazon.com


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## CharleyL (Feb 28, 2009)

Earl,

Here's a way to fix your Stanley square -

I have an old Stanley combo square that must be about 50 years old now. When I couldn't read the scale any more I took it out of the square and spray painted it with yellow paint (or a contrasting color of your choice). Then I wiped off the paint by rubbing lengthwise with a rag moistened with mineral spirits. I wiped it lightly lengthwise so it didn't clean out the engravings. The paint remained in the engravings, but easily came off of the flat surface. I let it dry and then did the other side the same way. That was about 20 years ago and I can still easily read the markings on my Stanley square.

This fix can work on any ruler with stamped or engraved markings. The only trick is to wipe off the excess paint carefully so you only remove it from the flat surfaces, but leave it in the crevices. If you remove too much, just spray some more paint on and try again. Allowing the paint to become slightly tacky helps, but don't let it dry before wiping it or you may be buying a new ruler scale.

Charley


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