# Table saw or router table for best box joint ?



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I was looking at Oliver's sled for making box joints and it got me thinking about whether there is any advantage between using a TS or RT for making these joints , like can one make a more accurate tighter tolerance joint?
When it comes to blind dovetail joints I suspect the routers the only option , but with box joints is it a tie, or is there less tear out or efficiency when comparing one to another etc


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I was looking at Oliver's sled for making box joints and it got me thinking about whether there is any advantage between using a TS or RT for making these joints , like can one make a more accurate tighter tolerance joint?
> When it comes to blind dovetail joints I suspect the routers the only option , but with box joints is it a tie, or is there less tear out or efficiency when comparing one to another etc


did both....
now it's the Leigh D4R taking top honors...
and it does more than just finger joints...

Leigh Dovetail Jigs and Mortise and Tenon Jigs
Leigh F3 Finger Joint Box Joint Template


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

In my view, the fixturing options are more plentiful on the table saw.
Moreover, the saw's efficiency is far greater than a kitchen router's.
And the cast/ground flatness of the table saw surface is a natural for better indexing and work travel back & forth. The router is/was an after thought.
The box joint, historically, was a saw cut. The router folks should have left it that way. The most labored cut for a router is a pathway cut, where both sides and bottom of the cut are wasted in one shot. The cutter is squirming, kicking and screaming for another job, like trimming.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Most table saw blades do not leave as clean or flat a cut as a router on the bottom of the cut. I prefer to use a router and my Incra.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The right blades on a TS will leave a flat bottom and clean sides. I'm with Pat on this one. Per foot of cut the TS is the cheapest tool in the shop to use and faster than other cutting methods. Despite this being a router forum, I don't recommend using a router where I believe the TS is a better tool to use.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The right blades on a TS will leave a flat bottom and clean sides. I'm with Pat on this one. Per foot of cut the TS is the cheapest tool in the shop to use and faster than other cutting methods. Despite this being a router forum, I don't recommend using a router where I believe the TS is a better tool to use.


I challenge anyone to cut faster box joints on a table saw than I can on my router table, from set up to completion.
Besides getting cleaner cuts, I can do it far more accurately.


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

timbertailor said:


> I challenge anyone to cut faster box joints on a table saw than I can on my router table, from set up to completion.
> Besides getting cleaner cuts, I can do it far more accurately.


I think the Freud blade I'm using gets about as clean a cut as possible. My few attempts using an Oak Park jig came did not give me clean results in plywood and setup was time consuming.

I have no experience using the Incra LS System on the router table so I have no idea about set-up and cut speed time. With my new sled the set up and production time is simply:

Change the saw blade
Place the sled on the saw table
Adjust the blade height
Make the first cut
Step the board over the spacer
Repeat until done

The most time required in the process is changing the saw blade. I found using the sled to be fast, easily repeatable, and I felt like I was in more control. The results speak for themselves. But as always, everyone should use the technique that works best for them. I think I'm gonna' stick with the table saw.:yes4:


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

timbertailor said:


> Most table saw blades do not leave as clean or flat a cut as a router on the bottom of the cut. I prefer to use a router and my Incra.


I have to agree with Brad, but the reason for this for me anyway is that I have never tried any other approach to cutting box joints and the results that I get with the Incra LS system are, IMHO, about as good as one would ever expect or want. Once again, it's a matter of personal choice, the tools that one have and maybe one's personal standards and application requirements. 

Jerry


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Gaffboat said:


> I think the Freud blade I'm using gets about as clean a cut as possible. My few attempts using an Oak Park jig came did not give me clean results in plywood and setup was time consuming.
> 
> I have no experience using Incra on the router table so I have no idea about set-up and cut speed time. With my new sled the set up and production time is simply:
> 
> ...


Having never used the TS I have to ask question that I am sure has a simple answer to, but when using the Incra system one has to do a bit of an exercise to get the cuts dead center so that the edges are common on both sides and look good. As I said, I am wondering how this centering issue is accomplished using the TS. I am not saying that is not done, just know that it is important and wonder how it is done, that's all.

Jerry


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

I don't know if there is a technique like that on the table saw, Jerry. My pragmatic approach will be to make the width of my boards in multiples of either 1/4 or 3/8 inch since those are the cuts my blade will make. That way the teeth will always be evenly centered. Since I usually design my own projects rather than follow the plans of others, my technique should work for me.

If I had a project where that wouldn't work, I would probably cut the stock width oversize, cut my joints, and then trim each edge to get the required project width and make the fingers equal on both edges. Of course that adds an additional step but I find it acceptable for the few times I might need it.

For those with shallow pockets who are following this discussion, there is one other point (especially if you make box joints infrequently like I do): The Incra system price is in the $300+ range ... my sled jig was made from scrap and at the most was in the $10 range. Plus, in my case, my portable router table is not left set up which would make the Incra system a problem for me. 

We all agree on one thing ... whatever works best for you is what you should use.



Jerry Bowen said:


> Having never used the TS I have to ask question that I am sure has a simple answer to, but when using the Incra system one has to do a bit of an exercise to get the cuts dead center so that the edges are common on both sides and look good. As I said, I am wondering how this centering issue is accomplished using the TS. I am not saying that is not done, just know that it is important and wonder how it is done, that's all.
> 
> Jerry


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Oliver; just to clarify your spacing system, do you centre your first finger, either as a finger or a space? whatever is left over at the ends will be the same at both ends? 
It wouldn't really matter in that case if the end joints were slightly larger or smaller than the intermediate ones would it? (As long as it looks balanced I mean.)


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## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

*BOX JOINTs jigs*

Hi Rick, guess it depends if you are doing the job once or if you are going to be doing them over a period and you can leave the equipment set up. I have a double router table set up for box joints and all I have to do is set the bit height, clamp the boards and turn on the router. Accurate all the time. I am very please with this set up. I'm sure table saw folks would say the same with their setup. Malcolm / Kentucky USA


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## Gaffboat (Mar 11, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Oliver; just to clarify your spacing system, do you centre your first finger, either as a finger or a space? whatever is left over at the ends will be the same at both ends?
> It wouldn't really matter in that case if the end joints were slightly larger or smaller than the intermediate ones would it? (As long as it looks balanced I mean.)


Dan, if by balanced you mean there is the same size finger/space on each edge of the joint, then the answer is no. The fingers are indexed from one edge (let's call it the top) and the bottom edge could end up as a variable-sized finger /space as you can see in the photo.

Malcolm (see his post above) clearly has a great system for making beautiful, centered box joints ... plus superb craftsmanship that causes envy.


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## kywoodchopper (Jul 18, 2013)

*box joints jigs*

I use quality spiral router bits and I don't get any squirming, kicking and screaming. Since I cut box joints all the time I leave two routers set up for the two different joints. To cut box joints all I have to do is set the bit height, clamp the board and turn on the router. Everything else is ready to go and the joints are accurate every time. Malcolm / Kentucky USA


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

Just a point to clarify use of the box-joint jig. First you cut one side. Then you cut the opposite side the same way. Then you register one side on the pin with the adjoining board (end) against it. This cuts the first opening on the second board so it will fit to the first. Take away the first board and carry on with the second. Obviously you must ensure you keep track of sides and ends and bottoms and tops. I think I have that right but someone will correct me if I haven't.


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## Red Stick (Sep 7, 2011)

*Sawblade*

Oliver, could you tell us which Freud blade you use? Nice clean cuts, sides & bottoms, and in plywood!


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## jdonhowe (Sep 12, 2009)

Not to step on Oliver's toes, but I have Freud's SBOX8 box joint blades (which I think are the only ones they make. The two blades each have slightly offset teeth, so they give a 1/4" kerf side by side one way, and 3/8" when placed the other way.

I've also found they give smooth, absolutely flat bottomed cuts. They're a bit pricey, but I was able to snag a set at Sears a while back for <$30.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Thank you for all the great information guys 

Malcolm I was in fact heading towards building a dual router table , and am collecting parts till spring for the big build .
It's quite an expense to absorb at first , but I think the outcome is going to justify it . I could have done it cheaply but I really have my mind made up on what I want .


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

A member mentioned that they though that dovetails could not be done on a table saw. _They can._
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChCPX7G3u_s
Table saw dovetail joint jig
Table saw dovetail jig
Building a Shop-Made Table Saw Dovetail Sled Jig / Rockler How-to
...and much more than anyone would ever want to see unless they were looking for it.

Next, on finger joint jigs... A percentage of box joint jigs that you can use on router table, you can also use on a table saw.

Incra iBox jig includes instructions to use on a table saw...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFiVJzigMKs
And you can use the Incra Ultimate system to cut box joints using the Incra LS on a table saw... I can use my Incra Ultimate router fence mounted to the sliding table on my panel saw to cut finger joints. The indexing is the same as it it was on my router table... but calculated to width of the TFT or finish dado stack being used.

You can do a lot of things with the tools you have, if you open your mind to the possibilities. (And a lot of jigs you can make yourself.)


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