# Ken gets his spot...



## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

So Ken got his small portion of the shed/garage... (First Picture)

Other pictures:

Ken has gotten a few of the insulation pieces in, and all of the duravents are in place in the rafters
A view from the back wall, as of this afternoon
First of what I'm sure will be many different ways that the workshop will be set up
Since we've decided that everything will be movable, Ken is putting the old white kitchen counter I got from my aunt on it's wheels;
and finally, that ole 50's (I think) counter on her casters. 

Ken was given some cushion pads some time ago. I put them away until a week or so ago, and pulled them out. I was able to arrange them in such a way that I can have them around my center work table (somewhat). I'm gonna have to get another set to get them to fit the way I want them to around the table.they're in a bit of disarray in the picture, here, because we tipped over the bench to put the locking casters on it. I'm pleased with the end result.

Oh yeah. Ken bought me a generator this weekend. Generac 3300. Should be enough for the shed for now.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Looking good Barb , and filling up fast . I’m in disbelief how my garage is going to nickel and dime me to death to get it where I want .
These shops can sure get costly lol


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> Looking good Barb , and filling up fast . I’m in disbelief how my garage is going to nickel and dime me to death to get it where I want .
> These shops can sure get costly lol


Thanks, Rick. Still so much to do. To finish the insulation in the roof will be over $200, and the walls will be probably close to $500. Maybe more. Not sure what it's gonna cost me to have the electric actually hooked up and run to the house. So, yeah, I can believe it, Rick lol I'll be paying someone Friday $225 to put in the garage door, and the opener we're gonna have to utilize will be almost $500. (A wall unit, rather than above the door, because we only have 7' walls.) The conventional one that hangs from the ceiling will be too low; the truck won't fit, because of the bar that hooks to the door.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Oh yeah. Ken bought me a generator this weekend. Generac 3300. Should be enough for the shed for now.


Barb, if you want to quieten that generator, let me know, and I should be able to give some tips. I've been working on designing a project for a good while, it will use a small engine, and I want to make it quiet, so been doing some research on that - and not on youtube, all the persons on their seem to be using cherry bomb mufflers, and then boasting on the decible drop. Hah. I've ran across some ideas that should actually work.

And I've decided to go cordless with my project. Yanking a starter cord on those small engines is too hard on me any more. So, decided I will convert it to electric start. Thinking I will go with something better later, but for the prototype will get a battery powered drill and use that to start the engine. HF has a lithium 18v battery drill for about $25, should be perfect.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Nice space, that's for sure. My wife treated me to an electrician who tapped the main box, ran about 50 feet of condult underground, back to a 60 amp sub panel. He used an 8 ft copper rod driven into the ground for the ground, then 3 12 gauge wires from new breakers in the old box. That makes 3 20 amp circuits. If you can dig your own trench, you can lay in the wires yourself. Needs to have a riser at each enad going into the old box, and at the other end, into the sub panel. The sub panel has breakers, then wires run to three boxes with 20 amp GFCI plugs. 

IN your case, the sub panel can go inside, and feed the circuits in your shop. 

Cost was $1500, including an extra circuit through the attic that runs our swamp cooler. 

If you dig the trench, run the conduit, pull the wires and install the box yourself, you could probably do the job pretty easily and keep costs down. Have the electrician hook things up.

Pulling the wires through the conduit through 3 major bends was surprisingly easy. The electrician used a lite length of twine with a wad of plastic wrap on one end. He inserted it on one end then used a vacuum to suck it through to the other end. Then he tied a heavier rope (what HD has so you can tie your load down) onto the string and pulled it through. He tied and taped the twine to the 3 wires and pulled the wires through as I fed then into the conduit on the other end. Done is jig time! I think you can do all that mechanical stuff yourself and only have the electrician hook up the wires to the new breakers. We used full sized breakers but you can get the thin ones that you can put two in the existing panel. 

110 v is pretty simple to hook up. I always use 12 gauge wire, 2 conductors and a ground, better to overdo it than hope lighter weight stuff will work. The cable from the subpanel outlets into the sheds is flexible conduit. Works quite well, and is now covered over by a small deck. The cables in the flex conduit are from 10 gauge braided wire extension cords. Simple
way to get from the sub panel into the shed.

After having watched the electrician do all this (he had a small ditch witch) in about half a day, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to do the basic wiring in a shop like yours. The only part of my installation that was a bear was cutting through some massive roots left over from a big Cotton Wood. 

You can find a book on wiring at Home Depot. Then hire an electrician just to hook it up and give it his blessing. The sub panel installation here didn't even require a permit. 

For lights and a power outlet on the same circuit, you can buy wire with an extra (red) conductor. The on/off switch goes on the red wire. It is nice to have a power outlet over the work spaces. 

I am wondering where you're going to put the table saw?


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> I am wondering where you're going to put the table saw?


Not sure if I'm gonna get one, Tom. They scare me. If I find one that doesn't scare me (last one I had rattled so bad I wouldn't touch it, so Ken sold it.) I'm sure I'll find a place.


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## lowracer (May 22, 2015)

Hi, I didn't follow the rest of the build, and the way we build here is different. what is this:

https://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=370933

I know its the roof, but is it isolation, or ?


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

​


lowracer said:


> Hi, I didn't follow the rest of the build, and the way we build here is different. what is this:
> 
> https://www.routerforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=370933
> 
> I know its the roof, but is it isolation, or ?


Hentie:

Those are vents to prevent the airflow from being restricted from the soffits to the ridge vent in the roof. The insulation (in our case, the pink foam at the other end of the picture) is cut to fit snugly and pressed in just enough to be flush with the frame of the rafters.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Coming along nicely, Barb...one thing at a time...you'll be in full swing in no time...

It looks really good already...!


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## roxanne562001 (Feb 5, 2012)

Looking great so far Barb it will all be worth it in the end.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Looking great Barbie, however I reckon that I'd need a ladder to work on what appears to be a very high bench!


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> Nice space, that's for sure. My wife treated me to an electrician who tapped the main box, ran about 50 feet of condult underground, back to a 60 amp sub panel. He used an 8 ft copper rod driven into the ground for the ground, then 3 12 gauge wires from new breakers in the old box. That makes 3 20 amp circuits. If you can dig your own trench, you can lay in the wires yourself. Needs to have a riser at each enad going into the old box, and at the other end, into the sub panel. The sub panel has breakers, then wires run to three boxes with 20 amp GFCI plugs.
> 
> IN your case, the sub panel can go inside, and feed the circuits in your shop.
> 
> ...


Tom,

A couple of missing points here. Breakers are dependant on the breaker panel itself. Only certain breakers will work in the chosen panel so that should be decided before getting the panel. But most importantly is making sure a permit is pulled. The insurance company loves any excuse not to pay and your town/city/county may likely require it. Better to know for sure then get into trouble later. My locality requires a permit. 

-Steve


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Coming along great.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Looking great Barbie, however I reckon that I'd need a ladder to work on what appears to be a very high bench!


I thought the same thing, Harry, but standing at it, it's not that high; I'm roughly 5'8 or 9" and had no trouble standing at it to work. I also have a backless bar stool that Ken placed up against it, and it's at a comfortable height, if I wanted to sit at it to work/eat. (Just in case my project goes into suppertime :lol: )


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Not sure if I'm gonna get one, Tom. They scare me. If I find one that doesn't scare me (last one I had rattled so bad I wouldn't touch it, so Ken sold it.) I'm sure I'll find a place.


Definitely do not want one that rattles. But scaring you is good. That means you are going to be careful. It's when a saw does not scare the user that fingers start getting lost. Mine still scares me.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

To commemorate your new shop, here’s the best song I could come up with Barb. 
Btw, it used to be my ring tone lol


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> To commemorate your new shop, here’s the best song I could come up with Barb.
> Btw, it used to be my ring tone lol
> 
> https://youtu.be/ZyhrYis509A


*FACE PALM* :haha:


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> ​
> Hentie:
> 
> Those are vents to prevent the airflow from being restricted from the soffits to the ridge vent in the roof. The insulation (in our case, the pink foam at the other end of the picture) is cut to fit snugly and pressed in just enough to be flush with the frame of the rafters.


Barb, I'm guessing the plan is that the attic will never be closed off from the level below. This application would never work otherwise. Normally, in a house for example, the foam protector would just be from the outer wall up to about 3 feet in order to circulate in the attic and flow out through the ridge vents. Here, and I presume in Michigan, most homeowners have extra insulation blown in atop the existing batts to increase the "R" value. My house, built in '76 had the standard 3 1/2 batt giving R12 but when I moved in I installed the foam then added another 15" of batts, crossing the plies from layer to layer to avoid leaking.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

sreilly said:


> Tom,
> 
> A couple of missing points here. Breakers are dependant on the breaker panel itself. Only certain breakers will work in the chosen panel so that should be decided before getting the panel. But most importantly is making sure a permit is pulled. The insurance company loves any excuse not to pay and your town/city/county may likely require it. Better to know for sure then get into trouble later. My locality requires a permit.
> 
> -Steve


Good info. My town didn't require a permit. Easy to check on that, but I don't think you'd need it to do most of the prep work, trenching laying the pvc, pulling the wire even. Interior wiring just has to be done according to code, which I know how to do, but I take photos of every connection and use one gauge heavier wire than required.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@thomas1389 This is my garage, so there's no attic. A loft, maybe. That extra space is gonna be used to store things. And it would work; you place your drywall (or plywood, or OSB) over top of the 2x4 rafters for a finished look. I need to close off the soffits without constricting the air flow, that prevents mold and mildew in the roof area. I went to my structural foreman and asked how I was supposed to keep warm this winter, if there's cold air coming in from under the roof (through the soffits.) He told me to put in the vents between the rafters, put in the foam, drywall over it, and paint it white. Then I can "close off" the bottom of the truss (I don't know the technical term for the bottom piece of the truss) and keep the airflow to the roof vent; in turn, preventing any mold or mildew from being formed from trapped moisture from lack of circulation.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

It will be full soon Barb.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Great, Barb....

(is there a jealous emoticon? ) LOL


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> I thought the same thing, Harry, but standing at it, it's not that high; I'm roughly 5'8 or 9" and had no trouble standing at it to work. I also have a backless bar stool that Ken placed up against it, and it's at a comfortable height, if I wanted to sit at it to work/eat. (Just in case my project goes into suppertime :lol: )


If I were 5'8" or 9" Barb I wouldn't need a ladder!!


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> If I were 5'8" or 9" Barb I wouldn't need a ladder!!


Harry, maybe Barb will be wearing stiletto heels.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Back to the table saw... Look for a Bosch saw, used or in an estate sale. It is clearly darn good and like most Bosch is smooth and fairly quiet. Get some Grippers to keep your hands away from the blade and to give you a good grip on the workpiece. The Gripper lets you push forward, down and to the fence all at once, and that gives you real control, which is what keeps you from injury. 

Safety is really a matter of thinking about what you're doing. I think through pretty much every cut I make before doing it. And I just can't bring myself to get fingers closer than about 4 inches from that blade, and I get very focused on the task as a result. I also won't wear a long sleeve shirt when using the table saw, it's just asking to have your arm pulled into the blade. 

Given how much you two work with wood, I bet you'll keep that saw busier than you imagined.

The other tool I love using is a band saw. I have a 12 inch Rikon in the shop I seem to use for nearly all my projects, even if it's just rounding a corner, cutting a circle, cutting a relief to fit around a post. My big 14 inch Laguna saw with a half inch blade can do much of what a table saw can do, but it's never as nice a cut as the table saw.

At any rate, since you mentioned costs are a consideration, my suggestions have been tempered by that consideration. On digging and DIY on much of the electrical subpanel, you might save enough to cover getting a saw. 

I just think with your creative impulses, that a table and/or band saw will enable you to go to another level. On signs, for example, being able to shape the stock with a band saw will let you do some interesting stuff. The Rikon (same as a WEN brand) cost about $300 new, a little less for the WEN. 

Although cost is a factor, I think freeing up your artistic expression is more important. You've got a creative streak I think most of us here really admire.

Nice to see Ken is enjoying the shop as well.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> Good info. My town didn't require a permit. Easy to check on that, but I don't think you'd need it to do most of the prep work, trenching laying the pvc, pulling the wire even. Interior wiring just has to be done according to code, which I know how to do, but I take photos of every connection and use one gauge heavier wire than required.


Another thought, before digging or trenching it's alway wise and advisable to call Miss Utility even if you think you know where everything underground is. Since it's free it's a no brainer. Not so free if you happen to nick or cut something (telephone line, power line, water line, cable........)


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

harrysin said:


> If I were 5'8" or 9" Barb I wouldn't need a ladder!!


???


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

@DesertRatTom You're bent on me getting a table saw, huh? :lol: If I get a table saw, Ken has already said that I'll be getting a saw stop at the same time. As for the band saw, I had one, but it fell off the table and went bye bye. I have an Excalibur scrollsaw, and use it for shaping my signs when needed. If I get another band saw, I'll have to get a very narrow blade to do the type of cuts I do in sign shapes. My last one had too wide of a blade.

My Tool Wish List Includes (at the moment)

planner
drill press
dust collector
band saw
another full-size router (probably Bosch, maybe DeWalt... undecided on brand)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> @DesertRatTom You're bent on me getting a table saw, huh? :lol: If I get a table saw, Ken has already said that I'll be getting a saw stop at the same time. As for the band saw, I had one, but it fell off the table and went bye bye. I have an Excalibur scrollsaw, and use it for shaping my signs when needed. If I get another band saw, I'll have to get a very narrow blade to do the type of cuts I do in sign shapes. My last one had too wide of a blade.
> 
> My Tool Wish List Includes (at the moment)
> 
> ...


I really should have purchased a bandsaw to Barb. Can’t see having a cnc router table and not having a bandsaw . Not sure where this is all suppose to fit exactly though ?


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I really should have purchased a bandsaw to Barb. Can’t see having a cnc router table and not having a bandsaw . Not sure where this is all suppose to fit exactly though ?


It's all a matter of placement, organization, and determination, Rick. Once you organize, you'll get it to fit. All the stuff in my new workshop was in my 10x12 shed, with the exception of the center table Ken made, and the "desk" I got last week; and I used everything inside that little shed.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

My Rikon 12 inch has 1/8th wide blades, and you can get one of the Carter guides that makes tight turns pretty easy. I just want you to have everything you want. It's a guy thing.


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## Old_Tom (Jun 28, 2019)

I'm with James. I'm just jealous of all the space you have there Barb. I'm getting a headache from thinking of all the things I could do with it and all the new toys I could buy!!:frown:
It must seem so spacious after the 10x12 shed.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Old_Tom said:


> I'm with James. I'm just jealous of all the space you have there Barb. I'm getting a headache from thinking of all the things I could do with it and all the new toys I could buy!!:frown:
> It must seem so spacious after the 10x12 shed.



Ha...luxury.....LOL :wink:



My tiny shed...


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

:lol: you guys crack me up. 

Been a bit busy lately; Ken put up all the insulation in the area above the loft area, and put up the loft last weekend. Getting the roof panels up almost proved to be too much for us; I just can't hold up the wood, or get up on ladders with my bad inner ear situation. but, four (4) panels got up, and the loft is up. 

This weekend, some small adjustments were made; changed the top to the cart holding my miter saw with a maple top that we got for a fraction of what it was originally, got some organizing done, and decorated my cornhole boards my skilled trades built for me last week so I could take them to my sister in-laws over 4th of July.

These are not decals, but pictures I printed on regular paper, using a laser printer, then putting urethane over the pictures, cutting them out, then putting spray glue on the back and sticking them to the boards. Once I knew they were set, we put the urethane on the boards. The one with the U.S. Navy seal is to honor our dads' and the U.S. Army seal is for Ken. We found the bags at Dicks Sporting Goods, although, I think I'll be getting different bags, as these aren't the best. I think they'll be falling apart rather quickly.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

It just keeps getting better. Congratulations you guys have earned it.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Barb, your shop looks fantastic & so do your board pictures.You certainly have been busy. James.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

jw2170 said:


> Ha...luxury.....LOL :wink:
> 
> My tiny shed...


You have to think positive James. Mine is 8X12, and I'm positive it's better than nothing.


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