# x-carve



## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

I am seriously considering buying an x-carve. There are so many options to add to it I really dont know what to add to the package. I am thinking about starting with the 750 mm table. Could someone guide me in the direction so can buy what I need and not spend on items that will just sit there. I want to carve on wood and other material if I can. Mainly woodworking. I would like to get into some 3d carving if I could with this machine. any advice would be appreciated.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Advice --- don't get an X carve


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

What's your budget, Chuy? How often do you plan to use the CNC? Are you going to be doing just signs and plaques or will you be wanting to do short production runs on engineering type pieces? The requirements, and cost, for these are different. You can do signs and plaques all day long on a more robust and rigid machine along with the engineered pieces in quantity. A smaller and lighter machine may not be as repeatable or accurate as the heavier and more rigid machines but that doesn't matter as much on signs and plaques.

David


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Get a CNC router with a 2.2kW watercooled Variable speed spindle*



honesttjohn said:


> Advice --- don't get an X carve


I agree.
Get a proper CNC router with a 2.2kW watercooled Variable speed spindle that will take 1/2" shank router bits. The X-carve use a std noisy 1/4" router.
A chinese made CNC machine is NOT very expensive.
I've got a Chinese made 6040 CNC and run Mach3.
I use a cheap CAM software called HEEKS CNC (US$10-20) with which I can do 3-D carvings with it.
CAM software can be very expensive and hard to learn. So I recommend the cheap MACH3's wizards add-ons to get 80% of your cutting or carving jobs done very quickly.


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

difalkner said:


> What's your budget, Chuy? How often do you plan to use the CNC? Are you going to be doing just signs and plaques or will you be wanting to do short production runs on engineering type pieces? The requirements, and cost, for these are different. You can do signs and plaques all day long on a more robust and rigid machine along with the engineered pieces in quantity. A smaller and lighter machine may not be as repeatable or accurate as the heavier and more rigid machines but that doesn't matter as much on signs and plaques.
> 
> David


The most I can do right now is about $1500 on the high end. That is why I was considering an X-Carve. 

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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

reuelt said:


> I agree.
> Get a proper CNC router with a 2.2kW watercooled Variable speed spindle that will take 1/2" shank router bits. The X-carve use a std noisy 1/4" router.
> A chinese made CNC machine is NOT very expensive.
> I've got a Chinese made 6040 CNC and run Mach3.
> ...


Wow, this is the first time I have seen someone endorse a Chinese product. I will look at the reviews, thanks. 

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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

crookedkut, 

I purchased the x-carve 1000. It was cheap and easy to put together. I did not buy any of the homing switches. I did buy the clamps. Don't buy the tool PKG. It was very basic, but for what I use it for it is great. It is not as heavy duty as some. So it depends on what you want to do with it. The 700 is smaller and I started to go with it and then measured it all and upped to the 1000. The 1000 will do a project without tiling at about 38 inches by 38 inches. So far I have not needed anything larger. The 700 would not have done some of the projects I have done. 
I bought a smaller unit earlier and paid more for it than I did for the X-Carve and it was a mistake from the start as it was not large enough for what I needed unless I Tiled in X and Y directions. Set up for Tiling is a pain to me. If you make the slightest of errors when Tiling, you will pay a price. 
Overall I would rate the X-Carve at a 4 out of 5.
There are Vids galore to help with the assembly and the support group is fantastic. If you email, they answer back within a very short time and if you call, you may have to wait for a tec, but not very long. They can tell you and explain to you what it is needed. If you have Team Viewer on your computer, they will show you right on your computer what you need to do, to make it work the way you want. Team Viewer is no cost. Software of your choice. I paid about 1500. The directions were good, and you have a little experience building this type of project, it will no problem. Time is the issue, about 9 hours for me to put it together. Be sure you have enough space to lay it all out on. This was key for me. Good luck and I hope this may be of some help to you.


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

Tagwatts said:


> crookedkut,
> 
> I purchased the x-carve 1000. It was cheap and easy to put together. I did not buy any of the homing switches. I did buy the clamps. Don't buy the tool PKG. It was very basic, but for what I use it for it is great. It is not as heavy duty as some. So it depends on what you want to do with it. The 700 is smaller and I started to go with it and then measured it all and upped to the 1000. The 1000 will do a project without tiling at about 38 inches by 38 inches. So far I have not needed anything larger. The 700 would not have done some of the projects I have done.
> I bought a smaller unit earlier and paid more for it than I did for the X-Carve and it was a mistake from the start as it was not large enough for what I needed unless I Tiled in X and Y directions. Set up for Tiling is a pain to me. If you make the slightest of errors when Tiling, you will pay a price.
> ...


Thank you for the advice. I know there are much better routing machines out there but I am not going to fool myself and say that I am going to get one if I don't have the money. 

Can you do 3D projects with this machine with the proper software or do you have to stay with simple 2D designs? I have Team Viewer and I have used it when needing help with the CorelDraw software when working on t-shirts for our screenprinting business. Have you seen limitations on the software? Do you recommend the additional software that they offer or something else?


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*I endorse Chinese CNC with qualifications*



crookedkut said:


> Wow, this is the first time I have seen someone endorse a Chinese product. I will look at the reviews, thanks.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Hi
I wish to clarify why I endorse the Chinese CNC router. Price and Upgradability.
I've got one and I could tune it myself, add limit switches to it and get fairly good results without changing control boards. Many others however think that mechanical parts of Chinese CNC machines are OK but they prefer better electronics and upgraded with USA GECKO CNC control boards and drivers for better speed and performance. The Chinese mechanical parts and stepper-motors are reusable.
When you upgrade you will probably be happier. BUT you can learn or probably earn some income even with slower speed first. With the x-carve - you will be disappointed very soon.
MACH3 is American as are most CAM software. There is MACH4 but MACH3 has more users and free user support and the license permits commercial use. Mach4 commercial version is very expensive and the hobby version is OK but CRIPPLED.

I am actually still an IT consultant - computer reseller. I still custom build PCs every month for my customer who sells American made PlasmaCAM machines for metal working in Australia. They are much better than any Chinese machines and I won't recommend any Chinese Plasma Cutting machines.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

reuelt said:


> There is MACH4 but MACH3 has more users and free user support and the license permits commercial use. Mach4 commercial version is very expensive and the hobby version is OK but CRIPPLED.


Maybe I don't push it very hard but in the last 18 months I have found no limitations in Mach4 Hobby. Works great for me.

David


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

I was reading that the software is net based. Ireally don't like that idea. I sometime have trouble getting internet here at my house. I dont want to be in the middle of a job and then lose internet capabilities. 

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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

If you get something like Vectric -- it's on your computer once downloaded.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I bought the small X-carve CNC mainly out of curiosity. I already own a CNC shark and Probotix Meteor. The X-carve and its belt drives gave me pause as even after I tightened them up I could move the gantry enough that I abandoned it and haven't used it. I'm currently using the stepper motors from that kit for a plywood CNC I'm building. Ball screws and linear rails on all three axes. 

4D


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

Man, some of you speak highly of it and others don't. Don't really know which way to go. I really don't the money for anything more expensive. I will pray about it. 

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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

difalkner said:


> Maybe I don't push it very hard but in the last 18 months I have found no limitations in Mach4 Hobby. Works great for me.
> 
> David


Mach 4 Hobby US200 Mach4 Industrial US1,400 (Mach3 FULL $175)

The Following are ALL NO for the Hobby version..(Yes refers to Industrial (commercial version)
Tool Life Management (G10 L3 command) Yes
Screw Mapping Yes
Professional Screen Designer (advanced G.U.I.) Yes
- Screen Animation Control Yes
- Screen Integrated Tool Table Control Yes
- Screen Integrated Work Offset Control Yes
- Screen Integrated gcode editor Yes
- Screen Artsoft Wizard Package Integration Yes
Macro B gcode Programming (#variables) Yes
- User definable gcodes via marco calls Yes
- Macro Calls: G65, G66, G66.1 Yes
- gcode via marco call (custom G codes via macro B) Yes
- mcode via macro call (custom M codes via macro B) Yes
- mcode via sub code (custom M code via sup program) Yes
- Conditional gcodes Yes
- set VN call - define variable names Yes
gcode Editor Included

MACH3 also listed as not able to do those things but because MACH3 uses C++ and original MACH programmer taught and allowed others to extend Mach3, many people have been able to enhanced MACH3 in creative ways.
MACH 4 uses LUA script with limited API, so if it is NO, you can do nothing about it but pay for the Industrial (commercial) version.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

difalkner said:


> Maybe I don't push it very hard but in the last 18 months I have found no limitations in Mach4 Hobby. Works great for me.
> 
> David


Ditto. Mach 4 hobby is not crippled, I’ve been using it for two years. Much better than Mach3 (but much smaller installed base).

Which of those industrial features do you actually use? They are mostly there so OEMs can customize it. You can write all the custom macros you want, you have access to far more inputs and outputs than most CNCs have. It is plenty for home CNCs.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

reuelt said:


> Mach 4 Hobby US200 Mach4 Industrial US1,400 (Mach3 FULL $175)
> 
> The Following are ALL NO for the Hobby version..(Yes refers to Industrial (commercial version)
> Tool Life Management (G10 L3 command) Yes
> ...


Yep, after reading your list it's like I said - no limitations that I've run into yet. I don't use or need anything you listed and only know what half that stuff is anyway. 

My 3HP PM66 has limitations relative to the 5HP PM66 but I have yet to bog down or even slow down the blade even while making 3" deep cuts in Walnut on the 3HP PM66. Therefore, the 3HP 'hobby' saw is plenty adequate for me, I don't need the Industrial 5HP model. :wink:

David


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*If you are happy -please don't be grieved*



BalloonEngineer said:


> Ditto. Mach 4 hobby is not crippled, I’ve been using it for two years. Much better than Mach3 (but much smaller installed base).
> 
> Which of those industrial features do you actually use? They are mostly there so OEMs can customize it. You can write all the custom macros you want, you have access to far more inputs and outputs than most CNCs have. It is plenty for home CNCs.


Please correct me if I am wrong
I think you cannot use a Microsoft 360 games controller to jog x,y,z a axis with Mach4 (yet?)
I use a webcam for digitising. Possible with Mach4 hobby yet?
I have auto zeroing of Z-axis, x, Y using other users C++ codes written by others and shared. Possible with Mach4 yet?

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Mach3 users can always upgrade.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

I have an MPG for jogging, so have never used a game controller, but I understand quite a few use the shuttle pro.
I have used a cheap usb cam for locating corners with a macro to move spindle the offset amount and zero the work coordinates. The standard install has a pretty complete probing module, I only use the Z-axis zeroing. There are user developed macros for doing a complete manual toolchange and resetting z based on a touch macro. 

Unlike Mach3, screen elements are user configurable and macros can easily be edited, attached to screen buttons (which have configurable appearances and states. You can edit all the supplied macros, create any M macros you want, and the api is documented and fairly complete.

All of this has been available for at least the last two years. The major difference is that it really is designed to use some type of external motion controller (like the ESS), although for an extra $25 you can have it drive using the parallel port.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

reuelt said:


> Mach3 users can always upgrade.


Yes, but unlike the Vectric line of products if you have Mach3 and want Mach4 you'll pay full price, no credit for your Mach3 purchase. Since Mach3 is at EOL I just started with Mach4 knowing there may be some stated limitations but also knowing those are so far above my current needs that I would be ok or find a work around.

I bought a Logitech F710 wireless game controller back when I was building the CNC but haven't really tried to hook it up for use. Seems like I spent about 5 minutes doing a search and couldn't find a readymade script so I put it aside. There may be one now, I don't know, but I haven't missed what I've never known. I just use the mouse and click on the buttons in Mach4 for jogging.

David


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Although I have been happy and productive with Mach4, if I were building today, I would also consider UCCCNC or Centroid. There are lots of options now. It pays to look at what’s out there. I know that @4DThinker and other Probotix users also highly recommend LinuxCNC (free!).


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

If you have US$1500 what would you buy?
Arguing over Mach3 vs. Mach4 would be a digression.

I had mentioned mach3 because if you buy a Chinese 6040 or 9060 CNC machine with parallel port + USB to parallel port interface, you can start using Mach3 first.
The machine usually come with an EARLIER OEM version of MACH3 (winxp only) for free. Some call that a "pirate" copy, because that free bundled version can already run MORE than 500 lines of G-codes. It cannot support add-ons etc but to cut and route wood it works.
I consider that an "OEM version" just like you get a free limited Burner software when you buy a DVD Writer. If you want more functions you pay for an upgrade. That is the time you buy Mach4 (hobby).
But I chose to buy Mach3 + Mach3 integrated wizards add-on because at that time, Mach4 (hobby) did not have an integrated wizards-add-on. The NF wizard add-ons was only an external program outside of Mach4 (hobby).
Chose the largest router you can afford as long as the min. size is 60cm by 40Cm. I prefer the 2.2KW water cooled VFD drive that can take 1/2" router bits.
If you start without paying for Mach3 (YET), you already save about $200. 
Learn and earn income with the machine then only you spend more to Upgrade Hardware and or software..
I think $1500 would be enough if you go for a 3 axis instead of 4 axis. If not try to a 2nd hand.
Find out
https://www.chinacnczone.com/en/3-axis-cnc-router_l66_1.html
Even US, Australian and other Universities buy those machines.


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

So do you reccommend these Chinese CNC machines over the X-carve?

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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Get something from the USA. SUPPORT after the sale can be the difference between a happy camper and a machine not being used.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Please do comparison of the specs*



crookedkut said:


> So do you reccommend these Chinese CNC machines over the X-carve?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


Please do comparison of the specs first. X-carve is for carving mainly.
Those CNC machines have height and more accuracy and can do more. You can even add a 4th axis and even make precision soft metal parts for YOUR OWN bigger CNC machines if you want to build one.
CNC is more than carving and sign making. If you learn Mach3 or Mach4 gcode programming, you can even mount a circular saw on a track to just cut straight. It would be even better than a table saw since the reference is the track and not just a fence.
Plasma, waterjet, laser systems all use the same G-CODE principle so you will be be learning how people cut metal, glass, marble, wood, cardboard, food TOO.

There are a lot of happy users of those machines on YOUTUBE. They bought them locally from US importers.

I had helped a church member import & installed a full-size CNC router from USA. It cost 30,000. His son is now still using it to make money making building materials. They also 2 large CNC lathes.


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## crookedkut (Mar 12, 2018)

reuelt said:


> Please do comparison of the specs first. X-carve is for carving mainly.
> Those CNC machines have height and more accuracy and can do more. You can even add a 4th axis and even make precision soft metal parts for YOUR OWN bigger CNC machines if you want to build one.
> CNC is more than carving and sign making. If you learn Mach3 or Mach4 gcode programming, you can even mount a circular saw on a track to just cut straight. It would be even better than a table saw since the reference is the track and not just a fence.
> Plasma, waterjet, laser systems all use the same G-CODE principle so you will be be learning how people cut metal, glass, marble, wood, cardboard, food TOO.
> ...


I would not know where to start if I wanted to build one. Don't know how far I can get with $1500. I don't want to start. If I decide to build the machine and I end up running out of money I don't want to be stuck with half a machine.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

crookedkut said:


> I would not know where to start if I wanted to build one. Don't know how far I can get with $1500. I don't want to start. If I decide to build the machine and I end up running out of money I don't want to be stuck with half a machine.


Buy the first Machine.
You can build the 2nd machine (if you need or want too) ONLY after you have know how they work.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Here is a Chinese 6040 type machine, sold and supported by a US distributor. Not as cheap, but supported. 
https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/3-axis-6040/


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Swap the x and Y axes*



BalloonEngineer said:


> Here is a Chinese 6040 type machine, sold and supported by a US distributor. Not as cheap, but supported.
> https://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-router/3-axis-6040/


A tip..
I recommend buyers and users of the Chinese 6040 CNC machine to immediately Swap the x-axis with the y-axis.

The machine usually come as a 4060 rather than a 6040. The China people don't understand.
This means that the x-axis is shorter and the Y-axis LONGER
It is LESS useful that way.
If you swap the x-axis with the Y-axis, you now have a LONG x-axis about 580mm and the y-axis becomes 380mm.
Because the Gantry is narrow you can use then use an x-axis NOT limited to just 580mm.
With some planning you can make say a 12 FEET long hard wood sign for a school or company by routing 580mm of that 12 feet plank 580mm at a time, shifting your long plank 580mm to the left. Of course your plank need support so buy/make 2 or 3 height adjustable saw horses.

You can LEARN and EARN money with your small 6040 CNC machine this way.
Use you imagination..


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

reuelt said:


> A tip..
> I recommend buyers and users of the Chinese 6040 CNC machine to immediately Swap the x-axis with the y-axis.
> 
> The machine usually come as a 4060 rather than a 6040. The China people don't understand.
> ...


Here is another e.g. of the benefit of a long x-axis 
How about making a cooktop template for your handheld router with a long 1/2' bit and a 30mm guidebush out of hardboard or MDF or AL like this one.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

Going to have to disagree that you need to buy a machine before building a machine. My first CNC will be the CNC that I am currently building. To get the machine up and running, I will probably be pretty close to $1500, so that is a very reasonable budget for building a machine. The machine will also be a much more stout machine than equivalent sized machines that cost 2-3 times more. Also, the added benefit of building the machine is each step of the process I learn more and more about how the CNC will run. 

What got me thinking about building my machine was I saw a couple machines that someone had built at a local woodworking show, and looking at it, decided that it was a feasible project. After doing some research, I got in touch with someone I knew who had successfully built a machine. He mentored me through the design process. Also between the him and the forums, I have found avenues to get questions answered as I have proceeded through the build. There is a wealth of information out there for those who want to try building a machine.

To me the biggest drawback is the time commitment. This is minimally a year long project. But then, the journey is what makes the project fun!


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

MikeMa said:


> Going to have to disagree that you need to buy a machine before building a machine. My first CNC will be the CNC that I am currently building. To get the machine up and running, I will probably be pretty close to $1500, so that is a very reasonable budget for building a machine. The machine will also be a much more stout machine than equivalent sized machines that cost 2-3 times more. Also, the added benefit of building the machine is each step of the process I learn more and more about how the CNC will run.
> 
> What got me thinking about building my machine was I saw a couple machines that someone had built at a local woodworking show, and looking at it, decided that it was a feasible project. After doing some research, I got in touch with someone I knew who had successfully built a machine. He mentored me through the design process. Also between the him and the forums, I have found avenues to get questions answered as I have proceeded through the build. There is a wealth of information out there for those who want to try building a machine.
> 
> To me the biggest drawback is the time commitment. This is minimally a year long project. But then, the journey is what makes the project fun!


If you want to build your 1st machine it is praiseworthy aspiration.
My friend (an electrical engineer) built his own CNC mainly out of plywood after doing research on the internet and is very happy and proud of it. BUT, he complains to me that he had to run his CNC router slowly because his stepper motors are overheating.
On the other hand, I had been to the factory of MULTICAM company about 30 years ago soon after they first started as prospective customer. The owner had a large CNC router and with that FIRST CNC router he made all AL and Wood parts in-house for smaller CNC machines for sale made to order. Multicam also made steel stand in-HOUSE. Today Multicam is quite large and manufactures and exports MULTICAM CNC machines worldwide.

So Build or BUY it is up to you. It depend on what your first CNC machine going to be used for.


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

Easel at this time will not do 3 D carving, but Fusion 360, which is free will do it. It has a learning curve, after a bit you would learn what you need. If you have Team Viewer there is help. I hope this is some help to you.


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