# Glue bits



## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Any one here use a glue bit. It is a router bit that gives a specific groove on each board that would be like a track for gluing. I want to maybe get on. Because I want a tighter seam when I'm making table tops or panels for less wood seam notice.


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Here is some info and demo from John at Woodshop Demos on this type of bit. I think this is what you were wanting anyway.

http://www.woodshopdemos.com/cmt-gl1.htm

Corey


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Thanks Corey that is the one. Do you or someone else try this bit. I would like to know if it is worth getting I know they are a little pricey but I do think it is worth it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Glemore

Out of the bits the gliue joint bit is one of the hardest to setup and use..

Next to the lock miter bit, it's also one of the hard ones to use and setup.

If your stock is dead on you have a chance to get it right that's to say if the stock is 3/4" + or -0 it's not to bad, but if it off just a bit it will stick out like a sore thumb and you'er in for alot of sanding...to fix it...the error comes from you need to guess where the center is on the bit.. it's not marked and it's on the center of the male part of the bit...tricky setup..... a real fire wood maker 


You may want to take a hard look at the T & G bits,,,it will plane one of the boards at same time it puts the male part for the T & G , many use the biscuits when the T & G bits will do it so much better,,, I like to use the 3/8" wide T & G setup because it's bit stronger, but the 1/4" wide will work just as well 

Here's link to a great price for the T & G set...
http://cgi.ebay.com/11pc-1-2-Shank-...4996704QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem

You can also get over size bearing from MLCS that fit right on the shank, that will let you put in a 3/16" deep slot, that's nice if you want to make some wider boards out of 1/4" to 1/2" thick stock...



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Glenmore said:


> Any one here use a glue bit. It is a router bit that gives a specific groove on each board that would be like a track for gluing. I want to maybe get on. Because I want a tighter seam when I'm making table tops or panels for less wood seam notice.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Got one as part of a set from Woodline way back when... more work than anything else. If you have a good edge on your stock, stick a couple of biscuits in for alignment sake and just glue it up. 

I did get the quick blocks setup aid for the lock miter, it helps a little, but that thing still is a pain to set up. Not quite as quick and easy as they show at the woodworking demo!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Glenmore, it's good to see you feeling better and getting stuck into bigger things than pens. As you would expect, I'm about to put in my 2 cents worth. In my humble opinion, the easiest way to join long boards is with a slot cutter in the table. Set the height approx. half way, it's not at all critical, and run the boards all the way through the slotter. Now cut strips of plywood and glue them in like very long biscuits and the joint will last for at least one hundred years, I know this as I first came across this method when I was given, and dismantled a very old heavy door that was in perfect condition and took a lot of hard work to take apart. the only important thing to bear in mind Glenmore is that the slot cutter must have the same curf as the plywood thickness.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Thanks that is a good idea Harry have one of those. So I won't have to get one of them higher class bits.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

harrysin said:


> Hi Glenmore, it's good to see you feeling better and getting stuck into bigger things than pens. As you would expect, I'm about to put in my 2 cents worth. In my humble opinion, the easiest way to join long boards is with a slot cutter in the table. Set the height approx. half way, it's not at all critical, and run the boards all the way through the slotter. Now cut strips of plywood and glue them in like very long biscuits and the joint will last for at least one hundred years, I know this as I first came across this method when I was given, and dismantled a very old heavy door that was in perfect condition and took a lot of hard work to take apart. the only important thing to bear in mind Glenmore is that the slot cutter must have the same curf as the plywood thickness.



Glenmore, 

A simple way to do it is on the Table Saw with the 1/8" blade kerf...
Get a sheet of 1/8" plywood at a BORG or wherever and just slice off strips with your band saw...

*edit: I use plywood due to it's ease of use and STABILITY. /edit*

You can use the same principle for drawers, etc. 
(That's what I did in building the drawers for my TV Tool Box drawers)


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Joe Lyddon said:


> . . .
> A simple way to do it is on the Table Saw with the 1/8" blade kerf...


I've used this method a few times very quick and simple.
And as mentioned - a VERY solid joint.
Very clean too -- if your edges are true.

The handy thing about this method (or the slot cutter) is that you dont have to worry so much about being dead center of the board.
Since you are cutting the same x distance from the rip fence (or the router table) on every board - you are guaranteed _at least_ one smooth side. Two assuming your boards are equal thickness.

As a rule 
*"You can get it quick, cheap, or right - but you can't have all three."*
Well -- this is one of those _*very rare*_ occassions -- where you can:sold:


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

Cowboy, very good points that I hadn't given much thought... You're *SO* RIGHT!  

... good to see you back and kicking... :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

You use 1/8" plywood ? I can see 1/4" thick plywood but it's only about 3/16" thick,,but 1/8" plywood ??? , or are you saying 1/8" hardboard , I will need to check that one out 



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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

That's alright Bj I don't use plywood for my sides or tops unless I'm making panel sides. I use only 1" or 3/4" stock anyway so it is a good sugestion from Joe and Cowboy.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Ok, now I'm confused. I understand the T&G, because I use them myself. I'm not quite understanding the 1/8 ply suggestion. Why create an extra step?

It's been a very long day here, so, it could just be me not seeing the bigger picture.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Glenmore

Now I'm confused ,, didn't Cowboy say he use the very thin 1/8" plywood for splines..? to join two or more boards as one.. 

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Glenmore said:


> That's alright Bj I don't use plywood for my sides or tops unless I'm making panel sides. I use only 1" or 3/4" stock anyway so it is a good sugestion from Joe and Cowboy.


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

What did Mark put in the watering hole?

Now everyone is running around confused


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Hamlin said:


> Ok, now I'm confused. I understand the T&G, because I use them myself. I'm not quite understanding the 1/8 ply suggestion. Why create an extra step?
> 
> It's been a very long day here, so, it could just be me not seeing the bigger picture.


There are a couple different methods being talked about here. T&G bits, slot cutter in the RT or the saw blade in the table saw will all do the same thing. The slot cutter in the router table seems like the quickest with the least amount of set up to me. The size of the spline would depend on the thickness of the material being used. For 3/4 thick material 1/4 splines are the way to go. 1/8 splines don't do much for the strength of the joint in my opinion unless its for joining 3/8 material and smallerl. I would use plywood as Joe and Harry says for stability but 1/8 inch plywood is non existent at my local borgs but I can specialty order it but it's mainly used in scrolling. 1/8 hardboard is good if you can get the kind without the fuzzy backing but I wouldn't use it for 3/4 thick panels. Maybe 3/8 panels.

Corey


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Glenmore
> 
> Now I'm confused ,, didn't Cowboy say he use the very thin 1/8" plywood for splines..? to join two or more boards as one..
> =========


Not sure how I managed to cause confusion  

- but - to clarify
Yes - 
I did say that - 
and yes -- I have done that
Only done it a few times - but with excellent results.
And - it very well may have been some scrap hardboard I had on hand - rather than plywood. It's been a while.
I don't remember where I got the idea - but I did it once out of curiosity - and other times because it worked and it was fast and simple.
Essentially the boards were edge-glued the spline was just there to help with alignment and add a little extra glue surface.

Yes - 
If you are looking for added support making two passes with the table saw - thus getting 1/4" would be stronger.

Everybody's projects are different - 
What few glue-ups I need to do are usually either either tops or sides for a chest or bookcase. There are always shelves or drawer frames or other cross pieces to take care of support. MOST of the time -- I get by fine with simple edge gluing -- no slots - no splines.
If I were doing larger areas or areas subject to more stress 
- my choices would probably be different.

Hamlin - 
I like tongue and groove
The spline method was just faster -- for me at the time.
I could make all the cuts on my table saw - without adjusting the height and moving the fence only once.


If anybody has read more more than one of my posts - you KNOW I am NOT saying this is the only way -- or even the best way -- just that it is a quick and simple way - that DOES work for some projects.

Confusion resolved?? I hope


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Drugstore Cowboy said:


> Yes -
> If you are looking for added support making two passes with the table saw - thus getting 1/4" would be stronger.


Cowboy, this is the only reason I own a full kerf saw blade, it's makes making a groove for a box bottom or stub & tenon joints easy. Otherwise I am a thin kerf kind of guy. 

Corey


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

challagan said:


> Cowboy, this is the only reason I own a full kerf saw blade, it's makes making a groove for a box bottom or stub & tenon joints easy. Otherwise I am a thin kerf kind of guy.
> 
> Corey


Now there's an idea I had not thought of --
And I am about due for a new blade - - - - hmmmm


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Sorry guys I miss read so I'm the cause for the confusion.  Well at least you guys on your toes.  I'm just out there. hahaha


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Hi Glenmore
What you have to remember with that bit and also with any type of slot cutter, when you look at the end grain of your tabletop or panel, you will NOT have a nice straight line for the joint. If you are shaping the panel for something like a door, you will see the shape of the bit and the slot filler on the shaped end grain where the boards are joined. I prefer to just use glue, clamps, and as much accuracy as possible in lining up the boards which are glued thicker than final needed thickness. Any slight irregularity in thickness between boards when gluing can be planed off when you take it to final thickness.
~Julie~


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The end grain "problem" is easily solved Julie by not taking the slot all the way through. In my humble opinion guys, for boards up to at least 3/4" , 1/8" ply is plenty thick enough, it's main purpose is to hold the boards in alignment whilst the glue does it's job.
I get the impression that 1/8" ply isn't common in some places, even here downunder it's quite common, as you can see it's actually a smidgeon over 1/8" but not enough for you to be able to call me a liar. I normally also use it for drawer bottoms.


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## Glenmore (Sep 10, 2004)

Harry. You and the pics again. :7 Not a problem Julie figured I would plunge into the wood about 1/4" into the wood. So that it would be a hidden joint either that or brad nail or glue a nice edging onto it. But the way you are saying is the way that I'm currently doing it I am trying to hide the seam a little better. Thanks


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Harry... please explain further... you are saying to start and stop the slot in each piece so it doesn't run to the end?

Glenmore... you glue an edging onto the end grain of wood???

~Julie~


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

" Harry... please explain further... you are saying to start and stop the slot in each piece so it doesn't run to the end?"


Yep, that's it Julie, if it were not 10.00pm here I would pop into the shed and cut a sample, as you would of course know, I'm a great believer in a picture being worth a thousand words. (OK, I know I use a lot of words And pictures, but that's how I learn best and I assume others do too, but when I sense that everyone has had enough of me I shall simply fade away.)


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

That's why I like the biscuits. If you reference off of a flat surface, you end up with 2 slots that give you a flush joint on one side, any irregularities in thickness ends up hidden on the back. The strength of the joint is the edge to edge glue joint. Keep your biscuits 6 inches in from the edge and then you can treat the edge however you like and no one will ever see your biscuit.

(plus, I just love the sound the biscuit joiner makes when it's cutting.....)


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Julie said:


> Harry... please explain further... you are saying to start and stop the slot in each piece so it doesn't run to the end?
> 
> Glenmore... you glue an edging onto the end grain of wood???
> 
> ~Julie~


Harry beat me to it - -but yes -- that is the easiest way to get around having your spline visible on the end (no matter what thickness it is or how you cut the groove).

Of course _another_ option (depending on the style and piece) would be to make the spline out of a contrasting color wood and leave it exposed on purpose as a design element. Never done it - but seen it done.

On the other question -- don't know about Glen - but I have often run trim around a glued up panel -- again specifically for the look - covering the end grain is just a side benefit.

KP -
I've been curious to play with biscuits for a long time --
But I am a cheap old codger and haven't been able to convince myself (yet) to buy a special tool to do something I can do with my table saw and wood scraps.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Cowboy

You don't need to " buy a special tool " to put in biscuits you have the tool that will do the job very well ( the router ) hand type or the router table...

All you need is the right router bit (slot cutters for the biscuit size you want to put in..)

The router table works the best, because it flat, all that you need to do is side the stock it to the cutter on both parts and you have it done. 
The biscuits are cheap and you find them just about anywhere..
But then you could make your own out of 1/8" plywood. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1PC-1-4-SH-Slot...4929827QQihZ003QQcategoryZ50386QQcmdZViewItem



============


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Cowboy
> 
> You don't need to " buy a special tool " to put in biscuits you have the tool that will do the job very well ( the router ) hand type or the router table...
> 
> ...


Actually -- I was looking at biscuit cutter bits at Rockler a while back and have thought I would try them. And probably will - eventually.
But that STILL means spending money  
That $30+ would buy a nice lunch with a nice lady.

As for making my own biscuits -- probably not --  
I'm also - lazy.
That's why I liked the groove and spline idea.
Zip - Zip - Zip on the table saw and its done.
If I use biscuits -- I'll buy them.

But now that I have my new table done - and have a router that will probably stay in it most of the time --- I will probably invest in some slot cutters --
I DO like the idea of being able to lay the stock flat while making the cut rather than standing it on edge.


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## Julie (Sep 11, 2004)

Well stopping and starting and making the splines is all fine if you are doing a small box or something. But if you are making a lot of panels for doors, and they are different sizes, I think it would be a PITA to be stopping and starting different lengths of splines when you don't need to. Why not just glue them as is? Quicker and cheaper and no need for a biscuit cutter (the money would be much better spent on taking a nice lady to lunch). As for gluing trim on the edges of the panel, I can't imagine how you would do that and avoid wood movement splitting the trim unless you are talking about breadboard ends which is not glued trim?
~Julie~


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## Drugstore Cowboy (May 17, 2007)

Julie said:


> . . .Why not just glue them as is? Quicker and cheaper. . .


I tend to agree with you there.
As mentioned that is what I do most of the time.
A typical glue-up for me is three 1x6's about 3' - 4' long 
to get a 15" top or side for a chest.
And I have never had any problems with simple edge gluing.
I read the spline idea somewhere - and tried it out of curiousity.
It made sense and was simple -- so I did it a few more times.

(Truth be told --often as not I just use nice veneered 3/4" plywood panels and avoid this whole problem -- but sometimes the customer specfically asks for solid wood -- or I know the unit is subject to more 'abuse' than veneer is up to)



Julie said:


> As for gluing trim on the edges of the panel, I can't imagine how you would do that and avoid wood movement splitting the trim . . .~Julie~


I understand that can happen -- although I hadn't thought of it at the time.
I guess it was just - beginners luck.
The pieces I did that on were some desks I built several years ago -
Put 1" trim all the way around with a shallow V groove along the joint line.
To the best of my knowledge -- they are still in use and the trim is still intact.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

To answer the confusion part... I missed the "spline" part. That's why I got confused. After reading the 2pages added after bj's confusion, I see many ppl are indeed "on their toe's". 

Lately, during the week, after working an extemely long day, my mind begins to "shut-down", when trying to read posts here on the forum. So, the confusion was my fault.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Julie said:


> Well stopping and starting and making the splines is all fine if you are doing a small box or something. But if you are making a lot of panels for doors, and they are different sizes, I think it would be a PITA to be stopping and starting different lengths of splines when you don't need to. Why not just glue them as is? Quicker and cheaper and no need for a biscuit cutter (the money would be much better spent on taking a nice lady to lunch). As for gluing trim on the edges of the panel, I can't imagine how you would do that and avoid wood movement splitting the trim unless you are talking about breadboard ends which is not glued trim?
> ~Julie~



Julie, the beauty of splines is that the position relative to the thickness of the board is not at all critical, therefore there would be no need to keep starting and stopping. Over the years I have made many pieces of furniture, many with between four and six doors all with jointed boards, without problems. The reasons for splines are twofold, firstly to keep the boards in alignment whilst the glue sets, and secondly to increase the gluing area.
Of course splines are not essential, to each his/her own, let's face it Julie, we can purchase furniture that is stapled together just as we can go to the other extreme and choose pieces that are dovetailed.


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