# Zero clearance fence inserts



## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Wanting to make some "zero clearance" inserts (for various bits) for the router table fence.
I learned it's better to ask here before I get something that don't work.
What is the best way to make & lock them in the fence?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Dave

The best way is to use a T & G bits,,,BUT it takes a bit of work when you want more so to say a 10 deg.miter works very well...and is a lot quicker when you want more 

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Bogydave said:


> Wanting to make some "zero clearance" inserts (for various bits) for the router table fence.
> I learned it's better to ask here before I get something that don't work.
> What is the best way to make & lock them in the fence?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

There are several advantages in using a tall fence as I do, one of which is it's easy to clamp a strip of thin MDF, typically 3mm, to the fence and withdraw the fence through the cutter to give a genuine ZERO clearance opening as shown.

I've probably posted the pics in reverse order, but not to worry Bj!


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

That's an awful lot of fences to maintain! 
What advantage is there over a split fence?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Ghidrah said:


> That's an awful lot of fences to maintain!
> What advantage is there over a split fence?


I really do not like the split fence. A split fence is mostly used for jointing, other than that I find it a PITA.

I like to use the pivoting fence and pull the fence into the bit to make a true zero clearance fence. The T& G method for each insert like Bob shows looks cool, I have nothing more than a miter that holds my inserts in like on the CMT fences. Some bit shapes do not leave as clean results when pivoting in to the bits as pulling in both sides of the fence continuously. So for some bit shapes I don't pivot into the bit.

Seeing Bobs method with the T&G I may go there when my current fences need updating.

Harry's tall fence is sweet too.

I like my inserts at least 3/4" though, the same thickness as my fence.

It's one fence and many inserts so there is only one fence to maintain.

I think the benefit over a split fence is there is no adjustment to hassle with. I am sure we all at one time or another have been pushing stock through to find it got caught up on the outfeed fence. The zero clearance of course provides smoother chatter free cutting and probably better dust collection depending on how you collect the dust.


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks Harry, BJ, Nick.
Gives me ideas to work with.
Probably go with Harry's method first. simple & easy (KISS)
Definitely see the advantages of T&G. but that's down the road, will need new fence faces & get good enough to make the T&G - nuts on. (well, me making a T&G at all will require another new bit order  )
Definitely see the need for more than one table & a few fences for each. Didn't know when I made the router table that it was creating a "living organism" that will continually grow. I see many more fun & challenges ahead. For now I plan to get my first table as usable as I can, already see I'm going to modify & add new fence fronts. Clamps, hold downs, bit guards, stop block slots & others. 
Thanks again
Dave


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Nick

I really like the split fence,,the CMT fence comes with the slide in bars to offset the fence quick and easy,,( 1/16" and 1/32" offset steel bars) that's one of the main reason I got the CMT setup..that and the swing fence.. 


I use it any time I use a router bit takes off the edge of the stock..or to say puts on a sharp edge on the stock..like a miter bit,lock-miter bit,etc.


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nickao65 said:


> I really do not like the split fence. A split fence is mostly used for jointing, other than that I find it a PITA.
> 
> I like to use the pivoting fence and pull the fence into the bit to make a true zero clearance fence. The T& G method for each insert like Bob shows looks cool, I have nothing more than a miter that holds my inserts in like on the CMT fences. Some bit shapes do not leave as clean results when pivoting in to the bits as pulling in both sides of the fence continuously. So for some bit shapes I don't pivot into the bit.
> 
> ...


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

You're Welcome for my SMALL part..

But it looks like you are 1/2 way there..

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Bogydave said:


> Thanks Harry, BJ, Nick.
> Gives me ideas to work with.
> Probably go with Harry's method first. simple & easy (KISS)
> Definitely see the advantages of T&G. but that's down the road, will need new fence faces & get good enough to make the T&G - nuts on. (well, me making a T&G at all will require another new bit order  )
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Nick
> 
> I really like the split fence,,the CMT fence comes with the slide in bars to offset the fence quick and easy,,( 1/16" and 1/32" offset steel bars) that's one of the main reason I got the CMT setup..that and the swing fence..
> 
> ...


Well the CMT is neat in that it is a solid one piece fence that can be made to act as a split fence shimming the HPDE fence face on the outfeed side. I actually have two of the fences but never use them for jointing. I could though.

I was referring to a traditional two piece split fence, I just do not like them.


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## Bogydave (Nov 14, 2008)

I have 6" between the sliding fences. 45 deg. 2 - 1/2 mdf glued together with formica on the face. If this is enough room, I make the zero clearance inserts a little thicker & plane them down to the right thickness 1-1/32" I think (a piece of 3/4 & 1/2 glued together)

Do they need to be taller than the sliding fence?
Do I need to add a "hold down" or is the friction fit between the 45s OK?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

They do not have to be taller but you can do it.

Mine friction fit well and I have never had a problem.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

You ask what is the advantage of my tall fence, first off I'll show you the space age highly technical fence that came with my table. After turning out accurate work for years using both model Triton tables after other hOme made ones, my work started to deteriorate, I put this down early signs of ageing. One day I started to make some large raised panel doors and ruined some wood because I couldn't keep it vertical with such a low fence, I therefore made this tall fence using material salvaged when we had a new kitchen installed. This enabled me to make some perfect doors. If I recall correctly, my next project was a trinket box, and being on the lazy side, I left the tall fence in place, only to find that it made the job faster and easier than the Ubeaut one. It then became obvious that all manner of jigs etc. could be clamped to it making it very versatile.
The only thing that I haven't used it for is planing, because I have a jointer, however I'm sure if I needed to, I could temporally glue a piece of suitable thickness material to the out feed side. Being laminated, the glue would be quickly and easily removed.
The penultimate shot shows a recent set-up for a dowelling job, and the final shot the simple hOme made foot operated router lifter, which, when the depth of cut is set, using an up spiral cutter makes perfect accurate dowel holes in an instant. I have proved over and over again that the OakPark motto KISS......keep it super simple, has a lot going for it, I know that most men like attractive technical looking gadgets, but that may not always be the way to go.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

That foot pedal setup is sweet! 

Do you have a picture sequence or "how to" on how you made that?

Nick


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dave

"Do they need to be taller than the sliding fence?"
No, just the same height, you can make one insert and then flip it over for some other profile...

"Do I need to add a "hold down" or is the friction fit between the 45s OK?"
No to the hold downs, and Yes to the 45's, but it looks like you should recut the fence parts, so they come to a sharp point, you don't want the stock to hang up on them when you pass it by the joint..
The insert should not move once it's in place..from side to side or up or down,,
Plus you may want to use a bit guard over the bit sometimes so if the insert is to tall in will be in the way..

I should note the sub fence should pull the insert in tight to the main fence,that locks in place.

Harry posted, why he likes a tall fence, all I can say is why not have the best of both worlds in one router cabinet.  see below..

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9782-best-both-worlds.html

Many times you will need to run the stock by the bit on it's edge and it's always best to have it flat...so you can control the cut..and the Horiz.table is the way to take on that job...

I find it's best to have the same bit in both routers, many times the same bit is used for both jobs ...

I though you would like to take a peek at it also because you are making a new table.. 

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Bogydave said:


> I have 6" between the sliding fences. 45 deg. 2 - 1/2 mdf glued together with formica on the face. If this is enough room, I make the zero clearance inserts a little thicker & plane them down to the right thickness 1-1/32" I think (a piece of 3/4 & 1/2 glued together)
> 
> Do they need to be taller than the sliding fence?
> Do I need to add a "hold down" or is the friction fit between the 45s OK?
> ...


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

nickao65 said:


> That foot pedal setup is sweet!
> 
> Do you have a picture sequence or "how to" on how you made that?
> 
> Nick


Ask and ye shall receive, follow this link and it's post #8

http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/4666-back-japan.html


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Harry

Here's a very small tip, when you want the url to go to a page on the forum just click on the page number on the upper right hand corner of that page, the page will open, then just copy the address and paste it in your post.

see below

http://www.routerforums.com/44165-post8.html

http://www.routerforums.com/83857-post8.html
==



harrysin said:


> Ask and ye shall receive, follow this link and it's post #8
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/4666-back-japan.html


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Thanks for that Bob, I knew it could be done but had forgotten how.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

harrysin said:


> Ask and ye shall receive, follow this link and it's post #8
> 
> http://www.routerforums.com/general-routing/4666-back-japan.html



Thanks!


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

I made my fence about nine inches tall... (Same fence Norm uses except the sliding parts are six inches tall instead of 4 inches.) It is tall enough to can clamp a thin piece of masonite on for true zero crearance... and I also made tongue and groove inserts for the sliding fences. The sliding fences are 6 inches tall made form 3/4 inch Phenolic. The inserts are also Phenolic and can have two profiles, one on top and one on bottom. The Phenolic I got at Mcfeelys, They sell it in 3/4 by 6 by 18 inches for sharpening plates. I bought three, two for the sliding fences and one I cut onto 4 double sided inserts. I used Summerfelds tongue and groove bits to cut the ends of the fence and the mating inserts. Works good so far on my router tables. 

I need to make a nice fence setup for my shaper. I'm still thinking about it. Its a bridgewood 3hp with sliding table. (I have the sliding table removed most of the time) The stock fence is beefy and robust but also clunky to use. I guess I need something strong and safe for the shaper and also easy and accurate to adjust. 

Any good Ideas out there?


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

wnagle said:


> I made my fence about nine inches tall... (Same fence Norm uses except the sliding parts are six inches tall instead of 4 inches.) It is tall enough to can clamp a thin piece of masonite on for true zero crearance... and I also made tongue and groove inserts for the sliding fences. The sliding fences are 6 inches tall made form 3/4 inch Phenolic. The inserts are also Phenolic and can have two profiles, one on top and one on bottom. The Phenolic I got at Mcfeelys, They sell it in 3/4 by 6 by 18 inches for sharpening plates. I bought three, two for the sliding fences and one I cut onto 4 double sided inserts. I used Summerfelds tongue and groove bits to cut the ends of the fence and the mating inserts. Works good so far on my router tables.
> 
> I need to make a nice fence setup for my shaper. I'm still thinking about it. Its a bridgewood 3hp with sliding table. (I have the sliding table removed most of the time) The stock fence is beefy and robust but also clunky to use. I guess I need something strong and safe for the shaper and also easy and accurate to adjust.
> 
> Any good Ideas out there?


Hey Wayne! Hope you had a good Thanksgiving I did not know you were here in this forum.

Your shaper is making me jealous!

Sounds like a great fence you made, but doesn't the phenolic tear up the router bits? The stuff is so hard!

Nick


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## wnagle (Oct 13, 2008)

Hi Nick,

Thanksgiving was ok here and now its back to work... hope yours was swell too. I come here every couple days or so as opposed to daily in the others we go to. Hard to keep up sometimes....

The bridgewood shaper is a beast... I have't used it much...I keep a rabbit bit in it most of the time. I'm sure there are more efficient uses...


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## kermitp (Jun 30, 2011)

*Thanks for all the great postings*

I have been struggling with how to create zero clearance fence for several of my locking bits, such as the 45 degree locking bit. 

Next time I'll chek the forum first. I got some great ideas from this post. 

I do have one other problem that has to do with the large opening left when you have to take out the disc covering the router. That is on short or narrow pieces the wood get sucked into the router opening. 

Do you make your own inserts for the size bit or do you order them from some source? 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Kermit


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Kermit

I make all my inserts,,just cut it at 10 deg.angle on the insert(s) and the fence ends, push the left and the right side of the fence to the center, it will lock the insert in place.
If you don't have good support for the inserts use the T & G way to hold and lock the inserts in place..

Once your done with the insert just replace it with clean one without a hole in it.

Note you can also make a Zero clearance fence the same way, just mill off one side of the insert, pop it in place and use some 1/16" thick plastic to off set the out feed side of the fence, you need off set the T & G joint also, but that's easy...

http://www.routerforums.com/88101-post2.html

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kermitp said:


> I have been struggling with how to create zero clearance fence for several of my locking bits, such as the 45 degree locking bit.
> 
> Next time I'll chek the forum first. I got some great ideas from this post.
> 
> ...


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## Clouseau (Oct 12, 2009)

I have always used a single piece of wood with a hole drilled in it just larger than the bit. Cut a small opening for the pin or bearing if necessary. Put it over the bit and clamp down one end. Turn on the router or shaper and slowly move it into the cutter. That will give you a zero clearance fence. Clamp the second end. If you need a taller one, glue up a large "L" shape and drill a clearance hole. I find a machined 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 make the best, and you can attach your dust collector to it. (I used my factory shaper fence so little it got lost during one of my moves and I didn't miss it until I thought about selling it.)


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Just to tag on another ZCI fence insert question. I have a split fence and was thinking I really wouldn't need ZCI on the outfeed side, would I??
I made my jointer fence by finding a piece of melamine clad MDF 1/64" thinner than the OEM fence faces and making an infeed fence face. Works fine, set it up with the OEM fence faces and switch in the thinner infeed side. I was thinking I could do the same thing for ZCI's. Outfeed fence face left square with the profile on the infeed side only. Any comments?


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Bogydave said:


> I have 6" between the sliding fences. 45 deg. 2 - 1/2 mdf glued together with formica on the face. If this is enough room, I make the zero clearance inserts a little thicker & plane them down to the right thickness 1-1/32" I think (a piece of 3/4 & 1/2 glued together)
> 
> Do they need to be taller than the sliding fence?
> Do I need to add a "hold down" or is the friction fit between the 45s OK?
> ...


Looks ok. Make them same height & thickness as your split fence with opposite miters. Slide the split fence open insert your center insert then close up the split fence & your middle insert will be trapped between the split fence & the rear support. The miter will keep it from moving forward. Making a center zero insert for different bits really does not take up that much storage room as the are small.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

jschaben said:


> Just to tag on another ZCI fence insert question. I have a split fence and was thinking I really wouldn't need ZCI on the outfeed side, would I??
> I made my jointer fence by finding a piece of melamine clad MDF 1/64" thinner than the OEM fence faces and making an infeed fence face. Works fine, set it up with the OEM fence faces and switch in the thinner infeed side. I was thinking I could do the same thing for ZCI's. Outfeed fence face left square with the profile on the infeed side only. Any comments?


If your using it as a joiner then all you need to do is install the shims in the outfeed fence then close both sides up close to the bit. You can't use a center zero center insert for a joining operation as one side of the bit needs to be offset from the other side. I think for all your inserts this is uneeded work. Offset fences are only used for joining operation. Any other bit you want a parallel fence all the way across. If you did that on the inserts then your material would hit the low side when it passed the bit & snipe the edge of you parts.

It's easier to mount everthing then draw the outline of the bit on your insert then cut most of waste out with bandsaw then remount insert then piviot into bit for remainder of the profile. The bit is round & will do complete profile which is fine.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

I do it all the time with my Sommerfeld fence but it's built in as a default item but very easy to set it up with that type.  the insert part is very narrow, just the size of the bit almost..I did post some pictures, see my uploads.. 

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jschaben said:


> Just to tag on another ZCI fence insert question. I have a split fence and was thinking I really wouldn't need ZCI on the outfeed side, would I??
> I made my jointer fence by finding a piece of melamine clad MDF 1/64" thinner than the OEM fence faces and making an infeed fence face. Works fine, set it up with the OEM fence faces and switch in the thinner infeed side. I was thinking I could do the same thing for ZCI's. Outfeed fence face left square with the profile on the infeed side only. Any comments?


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

jlord said:


> If your using it as a joiner then all you need to do is install the shims in the outfeed fence then close both sides up close to the bit. You can't use a center zero center insert for a joining operation as one side of the bit needs to be offset from the other side. I think for all your inserts this is uneeded work. Offset fences are only used for joining operation. Any other bit you want a parallel fence all the way across. If you did that on the inserts then your material would hit the low side when it passed the bit & snipe the edge of you parts.
> 
> It's easier to mount everthing then draw the outline of the bit on your insert then cut most of waste out with bandsaw then remount insert then piviot into bit for remainder of the profile. The bit is round & will do complete profile which is fine.


Hi James - I guess my description wasn't very clear. I hadn't intended on using a zero clearance in conjunction with a planning operation. What I was thinking was making an outfeed fence of 3/4 MDF. The infeed would also be 3/4 MDF but with a bit profile. Since melamine coated MDF is somewhat thicker because of the melamine coating, I would likely need to make one outfeed fence and X number of infeed fences.

Bj - yeah, I was thinking it would work. My fence faces are extremely easy to switch out. They have machined in t-slots on the back and are secured with cam locks. Flip a couple of levers, slide that side off and the new one on, flip the levers back.


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## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi John.
I thought you were wanting to make center inserts with the outfeed side lower. My bad. It seems what you want to do would work. Your storage room would be more as the inserts are a lot smaller & you could fit many in one drawer.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Kermit, Some plates have different sized removeable rings for this reason. You can always make your own. If working on small parts where the gap is a problem install a reducer bushing like those shown.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

jlord said:


> Hi John.
> I thought you were wanting to make center inserts with the outfeed side lower. My bad. It seems what you want to do would work. Your storage room would be more as the inserts are a lot smaller & you could fit many in one drawer.


Hi James - You're right, I'm trading off storage space for ease of installation. The faces are about 3" x 14". I may be able to get two profiles on each but not sure that'll work. Shouldn't be too bad as I only have a few bits that need one right now.


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