# Screws under laminate



## milesdf (Mar 18, 2013)

Hello, I'm building a router table out of two layers of 3/4" mdf, the glue is currently setting between them now! For the top and bottom, I am planning on using countertop laminate secured with contact cement. I am also planning on building a frame out of 1 x 3 or so underneath the table, to hold it straight and allow for easy mounting to legs. I'm wondering, is there any disadvantage to attach my frame to the surface with screws through the top of the surface into the frame? I would finish the bottom layer of laminate, clamp the frame on, pre drill and put many screws in below flush, and then apply the top layer of laminate, effectively hiding the screw heads. Will this cause any problems? Perhaps the screws could work loose and bubble the laminate?


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## Saddlenow (Mar 16, 2013)

In this application, I would coat the screws with Titebond III, then screw them in and proceed as you said. They should never shift or come out.
Richard


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

My router Table top is attached with 4 wood screws... 1 in each corner, up from the bottom! Has been that way for 18 years, the screws have not worked loose and the top hasn't moved. No need to do something that will prevent easily removing the top if needed at a later time!


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

I would put 1/4-20 tee-nuts or in it and then cover it. That way, you have more control over attaching it to the carcass, and you can even move it to a new carcass later if you want.

When I made my router table, I embedded four 1/4-20 tee-nuts in between the 2 layers of plywood I glued together for the top. But it is easy enough to put it on the top too. Just use a 3/4" forstener or boring bit to make a 1/16" recess for it, and clip the prongs short first.










http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/38644-router-table-build-2.html#post312149


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

When applying laminate over screw heads, I counter bore just a bit with the counter sink bit, then fill the depression with "ROCK HARD", sand it level and then glue and laminate.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

All of the above, especially Duane's comment about removing it down the road.
Kitchen postformed-countertops are (normally) screwed down (up) from below for the obvious reason that the laminate is applied to long blanks in the mfg. plant. The screws _have_ to go in from below. I don't think I've ever encountered (no pun intended) a top in which the screws have backed off. Personally I'd be very leery about gluing screws which could likely need to be removed at some future time.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

I use pocket screws to hold down my tops if the leg rails are too wide for through screws.
Can also go with corner blocks applied to the rails and run screws through the blocks.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Gene Howe said:


> When applying laminate over screw heads, I counter bore just a bit with the counter sink bit, then fill the depression with "ROCK HARD", sand it level and then glue and laminate.


Bondo works great as well


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

You mention putting in "many screws"--if you mean that in addition to fastening the legs you also intend to mount your bracing with screws covered by laminate...you may run the risk of wanting to rout or drill the top in the future (add a t-track, clamp, whatever) and ruining a nice bit by hitting a screw head. 

It's a little late now, but t-nuts between the layers (countersunk into the "top" of the bottom layer) might have been a cool solution.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Unless you are planning on lifting your router table by the top through bolts/screws are overkill. In the event of damage where the top needs to be replaced you have made yourself a whole lot more work. Four wood screws from underneath is plenty.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I attached my top to its frame with a biscuit joiner. I didn't really plan on keeping it that long but if I did, I could always add another layer on top.


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## milesdf (Mar 18, 2013)

Thanks for all the replies! I want a stronger sub frame underneath the table to hopefully keep it flatter over years and years. I am opposed to screwing this frame in from the underside as I don't believe the mdf will hold screws well enough, and the laminate layer will prevent any gluing. I also believe routing a groove into the laminate to glue a frame into will defeat the purpose of the laminate. Good points about screws under the laminate precluding future routing, although I'm planning a miter slot / t track combo and t tracks to mount my fence, so it should be easy enough to plan around those. Also a good point about the T-nut and countersinking into the surface, I believe it has turned me on to the best solution of all, I'm going to use 1/4"-20 threaded inserts screwed in from the bottom, allowing future changes and allowing unlimited routing from the top.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I am a believer in a good sub frame. They have kept my tables flat. I also agree that the laminate underneath is not necessary from my experience. You could screw down through through the bottom layer into your sub frame and then add your top layer on, already grooved, etc. and then screw it to the bottom layer from underneath so that it could be replaced if ever necessary. The t-nuts are also good.


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## gwizz (Mar 3, 2012)

Why not just turn everything upside down and screw the bottom frame ( and legs ) on from the bottom, you won't need that many screws and when it's turned right side up where is it going to go !


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Richard, I think that's where 'milesdf', and the screwing-from-the-bottom advocates, part company:
_"I am opposed to screwing this frame in from the underside as I don't believe the mdf will hold screws well enough,..."_
The only real stress on the screws might potentially be laterally; as Mike pointed out, the weight of the top plus router applies a lot of downward force onto the frame, ie working _with_ the screws.
If the router cabinet was being carted around to jobsites, carried by the top's edges, yeh, that _might_ create some stress. 
On balance? I'd assume that at some point down the road, the top will need to be renovated, replaced, or removed for some reason. The easier that is, the more likely it'll be done in a timely manner.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Photo #1: Four Number 10 wood screws, carried by the top.
#2: No screws, carried all over Michigan.
#3: 4 wood screws.
#4: 4 wood screws.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

I like that 3rd photo, Mike

is that from plans?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

#3 for the win... Great RT, Mike!!


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## IC31 (Nov 16, 2012)

#3 too

My radial arm saw replacement top has 2 layers of 1/2" mdf simply glued together with yellow carpenter's glue and held in place by the bolting Craftsman used - 5 of them. Been that way for 7 years with no sign of coming apart (though it is starting to look well chewed on).


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## karenbill (Nov 14, 2012)

I renovated a kitchen where the laminate countertops were clued and screwed to the cabinets. So were the backsplashes. The countertops were screwed from the top and then the laminate applied over the screw heads. The backsplashes were screwed from the back to the countertop and then screwed to the wall. You can imagine how we removed that stuff. Serious demo! 

http://www.thertastore.com


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