# Burning wood while ripping with my table saw....



## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

I don't know what else to do here....this morning I went through the owner's manual to try to correct whatever might be wrong, but I don't seem to be getting it at all......
I re-aligned the rip fence, I checked the squareness of the blade, I got a brand new blade, I re-installed the splitter (which I removed because it was not aligned and I didn't know how to align it at the time) and aligned it. 
Today I actually got a full rip out of cherrywood with zero burns....I don't know how I did it though...
I rip plywood with no burns. I rip pine with hardly any burns(but there are burn marks sometimes). I rip oak and cherry wood and the wood has burn marks on it! I'm only ripping through 3/4 stock here....I don't think it should have any problems with that!
I'm using a brand new Freud Premier Fusion blade on a Hitachi portable table saw. I set up the ripping fence with a carpenter's square and lock it into position while it's flush with the square. 
Does anyone have any ideas how I could better set up my machine or any suggestions on how I could figure out what's going on here.....this is frustrating.....


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Tpyke, the only thing I can think of might be the speed you are feeding the saw. You don't want to try and force the saw to cut. I would expect some burning on pine or high sap woods but the hard woods should cut smoother. On the other hand too slow can cause burning also. You have to get a feel for the type wood you are cutting.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I don't think it's the blade but, to completely rule it out, try using a different blade. Speed still has a lot to do with burning as well. If you have extra scrap pieces, try running at different speeds to "fine tune" your feed speed. Another thing, you may be moving the piece every so slightly away from the fence putting the blade "in a bind". Hope this helps.


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

I think we can rule out the blade, because I was getting the same results with the original blade that came with the table saw. I got this blade thinking the problem would be solved, but....


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Try changing your feeding speed.


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

I'm going to have the chance to experiment today (Ihope...)

Two last things that are bugging me though....
Blade heigth-I've been placing the blade heigth so that the teeth go up past the piece of wood...in other words if you look at it from the side you can always see at least one full tooth. If I place the blade higher, less teeth would be in contact at the same time, so would there be less chance of burning?
Fence alignment-I heard that some people align the back of their fence slightly away from the blade...is this common practice? Is the fence parrallel to the blade the norm?


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

tpyke said:


> I'm going to have the chance to experiment today (Ihope...)
> 
> Two last things that are bugging me though....
> Blade heigth-I've been placing the blade heigth so that the teeth go up past the piece of wood...in other words if you look at it from the side you can always see at least one full tooth. If I place the blade higher, less teeth would be in contact at the same time, so would there be less chance of burning?
> Fence alignment-I heard that some people align the back of their fence slightly away from the blade...is this common practice? Is the fence parrallel to the blade the norm?


Your blade height is about ideal. Do you have the printed insert that is included with the P410? It has tips for setting the fence and the blade height as well as a troubleshooting section.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

Just a long...

Most carpenter's squares are NOT true, this comes from the size most of the time, try using a smaller machinist square and use the miter slot on both ends of the table top.( front and back) ..in fact drop the blade all the way down and setup the fence once you have that done do it one more time then rip some stock, if you still have burn marks reset the saw blade so it's runnng true to the miter slot.

If you still have burn marks ,glue on some sand paper to the saw blade ( both sides) ( the one that came with the table saw) 180 grit. paper ,this will cut and sand all the parts you rip....I use this little trick when I cut plywood vern. and Oak... 

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tpyke said:


> I don't know what else to do here....this morning I went through the owner's manual to try to correct whatever might be wrong, but I don't seem to be getting it at all......
> I re-aligned the rip fence, I checked the squareness of the blade, I got a brand new blade, I re-installed the splitter (which I removed because it was not aligned and I didn't know how to align it at the time) and aligned it.
> Today I actually got a full rip out of cherrywood with zero burns....I don't know how I did it though...
> I rip plywood with no burns. I rip pine with hardly any burns(but there are burn marks sometimes). I rip oak and cherry wood and the wood has burn marks on it! I'm only ripping through 3/4 stock here....I don't think it should have any problems with that!
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

I usually set my blade from 1/8" to 1/4" above the wood.

As Bj said, some squares just aren't square. Easy way to tell is, draw a line across a piece of scrap wood, then flip, if the line lines up, then you're ok, if not... you get the idea. Some squares can be "fixed" using a center punch but this depends on the type of square you have.
I prefer to use something like this: http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20077
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20086


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## woodchip7 (May 21, 2007)

tpyke
quote "Cherry works well with both hand and machine tools. Keep your blades and bits sharp and keep the wood moving. The natural gums in cherry burn very easily. A fraction of a second pause in feeding can result in a heat build-up which leaves dark burn marks that are hard to remove. Some pieces are crossgrained and no matter which way you plane, tear-out results." 

Got this information off a web page. I have worked with some cherry and it does burn. Sharp blade and speed control are a must. If burning persists, perhaps adjust the width to accomadate a pass over a jointer to clean it up. Here's a pic of my cherry wood project.


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

woodchip7 said:


> Here's a pic of my cherry wood project.


Nice work Woodchip7! That cherry wood seems ALOT darker and browner than mine though....did you stain or treat it with anything?
You were all right about my feeding speed though...gotta keep it moving!
The thing is my saw seems to have a hard time when I push it fast enough to not burn....I should have a bigger more industrial saw I think, but I had no choice...limited space. Plus I didn't know about this forum back then, so I didn't know too much about woodworking.
This is the saw I have:http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_item.php?iID=555&arrPath=1,12,63,p555, ....you guys think it should be able to take the 3/4 cherrywood or might I be pushing it a bit too fast?


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## woodchip7 (May 21, 2007)

tpyke
Cherry will darken with age. I believe I hand rubbed the cherry with tung oil, no stain. I really liked working with the Cherry. Would love to get my hands on some more at a reasonable price. Years ago a popular ww mag use to publish an article on different tree species. Had valuable infor such as uses and how to handle cutting as well as health risks etc. Wish they would do that again. Maple is another wood you gotta be careful with. Sounds like you need more HP in your saw. I'm guessing the one you got there isn't much more that maybe 1 1/2hp if that. Had that problem with the ShopSmith saw I also own. If you don't have the hp make sure your blade is always sharp. I'm in the middle of renovating my shop but am anxious to get my new toys hooked up. Powermatic PM200 TS with 3 HP and a Powermatic 8" Jointer. Winter here in lower Minnesota has kinda put a damper on shop time. Heat bill last month running shop heater was over $600. Good luck with your Cherry wood project.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

It didn't say anything about HP but it pulls 15amp. at full load and 4000 rpms.
The real key is a good SHARP blade ..( I recommend Freud 60 or 80 tooth) the 80 is for cross cuts but it works great on rips also...the thiner the better for me no need to put good wood down the tube....  plus it takes less power to make a pile of saw dust...

Plus when I rip with the 80 I love to see the long rip strips come off the stock..




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The saw you have should do the job I think,,,


tpyke said:


> Nice work Woodchip7! That cherry wood seems ALOT darker and browner than mine though....did you stain or treat it with anything?
> You were all right about my feeding speed though...gotta keep it moving!
> The thing is my saw seems to have a hard time when I push it fast enough to not burn....I should have a bigger more industrial saw I think, but I had no choice...limited space. Plus I didn't know about this forum back then, so I didn't know too much about woodworking.
> This is the saw I have:http://www.hitachipowertools.com/store_item.php?iID=555&arrPath=1,12,63,p555, ....you guys think it should be able to take the 3/4 cherrywood or might I be pushing it a bit too fast?


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> .( I recommend Freud 60 or 80 tooth)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GOOD! That's what I'm using...60 tooth Freud(full kerf, though).
The last thing I needed was to have a feeling I had to upgrade my TS....too many other tools on the wish list! 

I just checked in the instruction manual, and it says:
HP(Maximum developed)..............3.5
RPM(no load).............................5000



What does "Maximum developed" mean?
Could it only lose 1000 RPMs from no load to full load?
Could they be sugar coating the manual?:'(


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

"Could they be sugar coating the manual?" Little bit like most do,, 
Because that's what most look at ( HP ) 
Just like a router ..


No load, no saw blade installed  almost free spin...

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tpyke said:


> GOOD! That's what I'm using...60 tooth Freud(full kerf, though).
> The last thing I needed was to have a feeling I had to upgrade my TS....too many other tools on the wish list!
> 
> I just checked in the instruction manual, and it says:
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

To get the most hp from your TS, use the thin kerf blades. As Bj said, less waste and easier for the TS to cut/rip. I prefer using a higher tooth count and or a combo blade, due to the fact it leaves a smoother cut.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

tpyke said:


> GOOD! That's what I'm using...60 tooth Freud(full kerf, though).
> The last thing I needed was to have a feeling I had to upgrade my TS....too many other tools on the wish list!
> (


Although you can rip with most any blade, I highly recommend that you avoid trying to rip with 60T or greater. These are dedicated crosscut blades and will be most likely to burn and will wear quickly. A good rule of thumb is to have 3 to 5 teeth working in the wood when ripping. That makes the ideal blade for ripping 3/4" stock 24 to 50 teeth. More is not always better - fewer teeth and an aggressive hook angle will make the saw seem more powerful.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

How high do you have the blade set? Is it sitting tall in the table? Try lowering it so the teeth are just a bit above the wood.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi tpyke

The sand paper on the saw blade WORKS great,, give it shot. if you don't like it you can always take it off...I use 3M #77 spray glue...I also like to use 8" blades they are cheaper and I don't cut 2 x 4 stock on a 45 most of the time...

You can also buy them pre made but you know me cheap old SOB 


http://www.grizzly.com/products/G4246
===============


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## woodchip7 (May 21, 2007)

*Burning wood*

typke
Here is a link you might find useful. Covers alot of wood species.



http://tinyurl.com/2365su


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## tpyke (Nov 11, 2007)

woodchip7 said:


> typke
> Here is a link you might find useful. Covers alot of wood species.
> 
> 
> ...


Very good link! I think I will take a look on there before starting my next projects, really good descriptions.
At one point though, they say that Cherrywood is close to the price of oak....that must really depend where you live, mine was TWICE the rpice of oak...6.90 the board foot!!:'(


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi: My 2 cents worth is cherry burns very easilly, and I would not use 60 teeth for ripping, 40 teeth in a rip blade should to much better. Feed rate is critical when cutting cherry and maple. The HP of the TS is calculated when the saw is under heavy load and drawing max current, and that point is just prior to stalling the TS. 
HP is calculated by multiplying the current times the voltage the saw operates on.
ie 15 amps X 115V. A horse power is about 746 watts, which is what u get when doing the calculation of Amps X Volts. Hope this helps you out. Woodnut65


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Just my 2 cents 

My table saw ( the one I like to use most of the time ) is 3/4" HP, 1750 rpm.the type that's hangs on the back end of the saw.. (old Atlas cast iron) and I cut (rip) cherry and maple all the time without any burn marks at all but I do use a 1/16" carb.tip 6 1/4" or a 8" thin combo blade(s) with the sand paper trick..


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Hey BJ,

Where do you get the circle sandpaper?

Thanks,

Ed......


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ed

At one time I got them from
http://www.routerforums.com/66823-post19.html

But now I make my own...


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karateed said:


> Hey BJ,
> 
> Where do you get the circle sandpaper?
> 
> ...


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Ok, one more quick question,

How do you go about making them, I think I'd like to try that idea...btw, got something called a 'TiltBox for getting accurate results with tablesaw, and any other magnet measurements I might need. Looks real nice, told me my filing cabinet at work was out 0.10deg from 90deg....so it seems to work well.

Thanks BJ,

Ed......


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ed

I use sand paper that's comes in packs,, 10 per.if I recall I pull out the 100 and the 150 grit. the norm, then with a gasket punch ,pop out a 5/8" hole ,then with a compass draw the circle I need, then cut it out and put on some 3M #77 glue and let dry almost then put in a 5/8 bolt in the blade I put on the sand paper on the blade..

==============


karateed said:


> Ok, one more quick question,
> 
> How do you go about making them, I think I'd like to try that idea...btw, got something called a 'TiltBox for getting accurate results with tablesaw, and any other magnet measurements I might need. Looks real nice, told me my filing cabinet at work was out 0.10deg from 90deg....so it seems to work well.
> 
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Bj,
I've got a few spare peel & stick 12 sanding discs... was thinkin, I could use those for my blades. 
I did get the H&L system from shopsmith a few days ago. Still under the weather here so haven't been in the shop much of late.


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## GoonMan (Mar 22, 2005)

tpyke said:


> I don't know what else to do here....this morning I went through the owner's manual to try to correct whatever might be wrong, but I don't seem to be getting it at all......
> I re-aligned the rip fence, I checked the squareness of the blade, I got a brand new blade, I re-installed the splitter (which I removed because it was not aligned and I didn't know how to align it at the time) and aligned it.
> Today I actually got a full rip out of cherrywood with zero burns....I don't know how I did it though...
> I rip plywood with no burns. I rip pine with hardly any burns(but there are burn marks sometimes). I rip oak and cherry wood and the wood has burn marks on it! I'm only ripping through 3/4 stock here....I don't think it should have any problems with that!
> ...


Hello tpyke

One other thing you can check if changing to a 40 or 50 tooth blade and feed rate does not work. Check your fence to make sure it does not have a twist in it. If it is a new saw it could have been damaged in shipping. I also ordered and started using the Frued 30T Glue Line Rip blade on Cherry, Black Walnut and Hard Maple that I use to make cutting boards and table tops with.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Ed
> 
> I use sand paper that's comes in packs,, 10 per.if I recall I pull out the 100 and the 150 grit. the norm, then with a gasket punch ,pop out a 5/8" hole ,then with a compass draw the circle I need, then cut it out and put on some 3M #77 glue and let dry almost then put in a 5/8 bolt in the blade I put on the sand paper on the blade..
> 
> ==============


Thanks very much BJ.....

Ed...... :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You'er Welcome Ed

Many will say what ? ,,sand paper on a saw blade that guy is nuts,,

It's like the the hammer thing,, I don't need to use a 10lb. hammer to put in a tack in the wall...I have other saws to do the real hvy.jobs but most of the stuff I do is 3/4" thick stock or less and the sand paper thing works and will do both jobs at one time..

Most of the time I don't need to joint the boards on the jointer because they come out so clean and true...

I think once you try it you will say the same  just a neat way to do it..

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