# Safe or Not Safe



## Seldonman (Jul 30, 2013)

Thought I would share this Safety Message with you as it might help someone be a little more safe in the shop. This is basically a copy of the e-mail I sent my Father-in-Law, whom as you may recall gave me most of my wood working tools.

Well Monday was an overcast and cool (high 80's) day so I decided to go out into the shop and start her up for the season. As I started to do some work I stopped myself and said, "You know Jim, you have been meaning to upgrade your safety equipment and you have been putting it off." So off I went to Home depot and bought a new 3M half face mask industrial filter. I have been using your old one and it works fine but I can no longer buy new filters for it and the straps are getting old and worn. I also bought ear muff for hearing protection as I have been using ear plugs that you have to roll up. Then I bought a new pair of hard plastic eye protectors to replace your old soft plastic protector that was hard to see through along with a dust mask for sawing operations. 

I know the eye protectors are a one hundred percent improvement because I went to put them on and could not find them; that's when I realized I was wearing them. Also, the ear muffs are quick and easy to put on and I really like them. So, after spending a good chunk of money was I safe? Unfortunately, the answer was no as I got what I think is my worst shop accident to-date, if you don't include the time I jammed the newly sharpened chisel into my thumb. You see, I was ripping and crossing cutting some wood on the table saw for about a half hour when all of sudden I was done and turned off the saw, cleaned up and put the saw back. Quick aside, I am getting very good at using the table saw and making precise cuts. Anyways, I put the saw away and cleaned up the shop when I decided to pull out my router table. No problem there, the table is on wheels and its unplugged. However, as I was pulling the table out into the middle of the garage I lightly brushed a 2 x 2 piece of 3/4 MDF leaning against the wall and it fell over. In the process of falling over a corner brushed my leg like a knife and left a 3 to 4 inch scrap; not a gash. But boy did that thing start to bleed so I went inside and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol and headed to the drug store for some spray on bandage. I had to go to two different store but finally found it and when I went home and applied it I nearly went through the ceiling! So I am fine but who would ever have thought I would get hurt moving the router table. I may have to start wearing long pants in the garage. And yes, I have moved that piece of MDF and other pieces of wood to a safer location! There is a good ending to the story in that I shared my story at a safety meeting at work and won two movie passes. However, I think I would have like not to have had this happen in the first place!


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jim, safety reminders are always a good thing. Thank you for sharing this.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's always good when we get a lasting lesson without any major harm. I don't know if you have ever worked somewhere that they had a professional safety audit done. That can be a real eye opener. Chances are they would have seen that piece of mdf and said put it away or dispose of it. When you look at your shop the way one of them would you start to see a lot of things that could be improved on.


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## The Hobbyist (Apr 25, 2015)

Yeah. My shop is a literal death trap right now.


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

You can't never tell. I held a butt joint together with my thumb to keep it alligned and shot a 18 brad into the joint to hold it. Surprise, the nail wasn't square with the plywood, hit a cross layer and came out curving thru my thumb. Don't get body parts close to the joint anymore. That's what clamps are for.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Good advice. Also, don't fry bacon in the nude, according to a comedian I heard a while back.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Had an accident not long ago with a brad nailer, shot straight through my index finger, bounced of the edge of the bone and came out the other side. I'm with you on clamps now. I think I'm going to get started on that dust collection hood that hovers over the blade. Clear plastic for visibility and set up right will keep stray fingers away. 

The second best safety device is the Gripper, the first is thinking through what you're going to do and how you're going to do it safely, before you turn on any tool. Jigs with hold down clamps when possible are another good safety device.

My biggest challenge is finding places to store large pieces of sheet goods. Just too darn many tools for such a small space. Time to rearrange again so there's a clear spot on the back wall for flat goods. Lets see, move the dust collection to a back corner, put the sander on a shelf and then find a spot for the 9 inch band saw and voila! accessible storage on the side wall and still room for ripping long pieces on the TS. 

The other possibility is to enclose and roof in the space between two sheds. About 50 inches between. Just not sure how things will fare out there in the heat and cold. Anyone want to come and help?


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Speaking of safety, I was getting ready to start my lathe and noticed that I still had the key in the Jacobs chuck on the headstock. I'm thinking of tying a red or orange ribbon on it so it will be more visible.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Knothead47 said:


> Speaking of safety, I was getting ready to start my lathe and noticed that I still had the key in the Jacobs chuck on the headstock. I'm thinking of tying a red or orange ribbon on it so it will be more visible.


put one of those retractable key chain holders on it...
let go of the hey and it gets retracted...


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

There was a discussion a while back about the relative safety of fixed base versus plunge routers, I think that it was pretty much a draw. Yesterday, I was routing out the back of a door frame to drop in a plywood panel - this for a shop cabinet so nothing fancy, I cut the recess to the thickness of the plywood, round the corners of the panel to match the radius of the rabbeting cutter and glue and brad it in place. Out of habit, I grabbed my D-handle PC router to find that the hole in the base was too small for the cutter I was using. I pulled the motor out of the base and dropped it into the spare fixed base that belongs to the motor in my router lift. I set the router on it's side on the work surface and plugged the router into an extension - and it started right up. I had forgotten that the motor is always "ON" is this type router and operates by the trigger in the handle. Fortunately, the motor just burped as the plug made contact and I was able to pull it out right away - and the router barely moved position. The router normally has one of Pat Warner's offset bases with the smaller center hole for a guide bushing, and I take that off and replace it with the OEM plate with the larger center hole when using larger bits. But, I had just "found" the spare base while I was organizing, it was sitting right next to the router and it seemed to be the quick and easy way to go. One of those little things that I need to remember for the next time (or maybe it's telling me I need another router :wink, luckily there was no damage or injury.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Knothead47 said:


> Speaking of safety, I was getting ready to start my lathe and noticed that I still had the key in the Jacobs chuck on the headstock. I'm thinking of tying a red or orange ribbon on it so it will be more visible.


My router wrenches and keys have a length of bright mason line attached to them and the table and drill press they belong to...long enough to do their job but not so long that they get in the way. How convenient that they put a hole on the ends of the wrenches. I had originally tied the line on them because I couldn't find them after I "put them someplace"...  It's also a reminder to check the collet before I use the router.

Thanks for the reminder to look for the not so obvious...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

old coasty said:


> You can't never tell. I held a butt joint together with my thumb to keep it alligned and shot a 18 brad into the joint to hold it. Surprise, the nail wasn't square with the plywood, hit a cross layer and came out curving thru my thumb. Don't get body parts close to the joint anymore. That's what clamps are for.


I was talking with my neighbor the nurse , and nailers are the biggest culprits of visits to emerg .
Yeas ago I was putting Brad nails in some mdf and I had to put one in a precarious spot and I didn't have it as straight as I thought and it ricocheted and stuck between my eyes . Never used my Brad nailer without eye protection again . Literally didn't see that one coming :fie:


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Stick, that is a great idea! I'll see about getting two- one for the lathe and one for the drill press. Thanks.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> put one of those retractable key chain holders on it...
> let go of the hey and it gets retracted...


I've seen quite a few lathe chuck keys that are spring loaded. You have to push them in to engage them. They automatically push themselves out when you let go.


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## tomp913 (Mar 7, 2014)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've seen quite a few lathe chuck keys that are spring loaded. You have to push them in to engage them. They automatically push themselves out when you let go.


The key on my PB drill press is spring loaded and needs a fair bit of pressure to compress it, you can't leave it in the chuck.

We used to have a carpenter at work who made shipping crates, cradles, etc, a man of many years experience. One day he was hooking the air hose to a nail gun and holding the air gun against his body while doing it. Must have had the safety depressed somehow and it fired a 16D nail into his "groin area" as he pushed the hose onto the QD - fortunately he hit nothing serious but had to go to the ER to have the nail taken out of his upper leg. Ouch.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've seen quite a few lathe chuck keys that are spring loaded. You have to push them in to engage them. They automatically push themselves out when you let go.


and the retractable key chain holder keeps track of the key...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

time to to move this to the fore front...


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## Tommy Law (May 29, 2016)

old coasty said:


> You can't never tell. I held a butt joint together with my thumb to keep it alligned and shot a 18 brad into the joint to hold it. Surprise, the nail wasn't square with the plywood, hit a cross layer and came out curving thru my thumb. Don't get body parts close to the joint anymore. That's what clamps are for.


I recently had almost identical thing happen was using my Brad nailer to assemble a subwoofer enclosure was going along then felt a sudden tingle and warm sensation in my left thumb I was lucky enough to be able to get the head of nail with pliers and remove but Clamps are now my friend.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> put one of those retractable key chain holders on it...
> let go of the hey and it gets retracted...


I used an old coiled phone line on my drill press. It's been there like 20 something years!! ;o)


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Had an accident not long ago with a brad nailer, shot straight through my index finger, bounced of the edge of the bone and came out the other side. I'm with you on clamps now. I think I'm going to get started on that dust collection hood that hovers over the blade. Clear plastic for visibility and set up right will keep stray fingers away.
> 
> The second best safety device is the Gripper, the first is thinking through what you're going to do and how you're going to do it safely, before you turn on any tool. Jigs with hold down clamps when possible are another good safety device.
> 
> ...


Which begs the question...how many know the proper orientation for the gun when attaching a butt joint?

I'll wait and see how many know!


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

The key to the Jacobs chuck for the lathe isn't spring loaded. The one for the DP is, though. I could mount the zinger on the wall by the lathe.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"Which begs the question...how many know the proper orientation for the gun when attaching a butt joint?"
-Bill

In my right hand, and my left hand in my pocket?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

left hand...
other hand no were near the gun...
gun perpendicular to the joint...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> left hand...
> other hand no were near the gun...
> gun perpendicular to the joint...





DaninVan said:


> "Which begs the question...how many know the proper orientation for the gun when attaching a butt joint?"
> -Bill
> 
> In my right hand, and my left hand in my pocket?


*buzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Try again, guys.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

My first shots would be towards the joint to pull it together. Then I would angle one of two the other way to cross nail and lock it. My personal preference anyway.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> *buzzzzzzzzzzzzz* Try again, guys.


gun pointed awat from you and anybuddy else near...


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Okay Bill, let's see the photo.


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Come on guys! 

Air gun nails have a tendency to bend when shot into the edge of the material. Which way do you hold the gun when nailing a butt joint to prevent the nail/brad from blowing out the side? Do you hold the gun parallel to the joint or perpendicular to the joint to prevent the blowout?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

but toe nailing is required of them...
buy good nails...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

OK, since most of the GURU's here are afraid to answer the question, (afraid of giving the wrong answer), I'll solve the mystery for everyone.

Pins/brads have a tendency to deflect, especially in plywood. By orienting the gun properly, it helps to keep it from blowing out the sides.

Here is one link to a pretty good description/explanation, complete with a quick sketch, that I found.

So, following the theme of Safe or Not Safe, watch and learn!:sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

What? That's never happened to me...rotflmao!
Thanks, Bill; I'll remember that info _after_ the next time it happens to me. 

I wonder if it's brand specific, or applies to all brad nailers?
OK. I thought about it. The brads are basically a 'T' in shape, with the weaker dimension being the thickness of the gauge of metal they're stamped from, as opposed to the distance across the leg of the brad in the direction they're being shot from the stick of nails. Does that make sense?
So, when driven, the nails will naturally deflect/deform in the direction of the weakest resistance...that's side to side relative to the stick. 
Does that sound like a reasonable explanation?


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

I don't think this a problem with a single answer. The attached link has a list of Blowout causes. 

The In's and Out's of Pneumatic Nailers


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Very good article...
thanks...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> What? That's never happened to me...rotflmao!
> Thanks, Bill; I'll remember that info _after_ the next time it happens to me.
> 
> I wonder if it's brand specific, or applies to all brad nailers?
> ...


*Absolutely*



paduke said:


> I don't think this a problem with a single answer. The attached link has a list of Blowout causes.
> 
> The In's and Out's of Pneumatic Nailers


*Outstanding article! I think/agree that there are many factors involved to producing a blowout. Sometimes you just don't have any control. However, whatever you can do to minimize the result is well worth the effort not to put a fastener where it really doesn't belong, or isn't intended to be.

I have learned to keep my hands well away from the potential paths of air driven fasteners. Trust me, the VOE is loud in my head. Luckily, none were ever too serious. Minor pain and a little blood letting. Then again, what is woodworking without a little blood letting on occasion?

Safe or Not Safe was the theme. The bottom line, whatever, we can do to minimize or eliminate an unintended event is what we should remember to do before we pull the proverbial trigger.*


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

Stone cold quilty as charged on blooodletting. Luckily never hit bone with brad nailer. But my hands are clear when using my 16 ga.trim gun. That puppy can put a hurt on you.


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## JFPNCM (Dec 13, 2009)

Excellent discussion and pointers on nailers. Appreciate the posts.


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## marc7101 (Jul 14, 2015)

Knothead47 said:


> Good advice. Also, don't fry bacon in the nude, according to a comedian I heard a while back.


That sounds like good advice..lol :lol:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

marc7101 said:


> That sounds like good advice..lol :lol:


it is..
VOE...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Can't wait to remember this thread the next time it happens...

No more using my foot for alignment... LMAO


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*I Always Wondered(?)*



Nickp said:


> Can't wait to remember this thread the next time it happens...
> 
> No more using my foot for alignment... LMAO


Toe-nailed? :laugh2:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Toe-nailed? :laugh2:


My father had a guy nailing down sub-floor back in the 60's...up pulls the school bus the guy gets distracted by the kids and shoots a nail into his foot.

Yup! nailed it right to the sub-floor.

Guess that's why they have "safety feet" on the nose of the guns that need to be depressed before you can pull the trigger.>>>


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Toe-nailed? :laugh2:


knee jerker..


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Toe-nailed? :laugh2:


Good catch, Dan...obviously I missed my own opportunity... :help:


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

*Your Game Off?*



Nickp said:


> Good catch, Dan...obviously I missed my own opportunity... :help:


...need to pay attention!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> ...need to pay attention!


why ???...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> why ???...


Why not?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

schnewj said:


> Why not?


what for???


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Who's on first?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't know..


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

He's on third...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

third what...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> third what...


Huh....???


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Huh....???


figures...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

_Somebody's_ not even in the game!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

dues are kinda stiff...


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## schnewj (Nov 18, 2013)

What a classic...and to think these guys didn't even like each other! What a comedy team...


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

schnewj said:


> My father had a guy nailing down sub-floor back in the 60's...up pulls the school bus the guy gets distracted by the kids and shoots a nail into his foot.
> 
> Yup! nailed it right to the sub-floor.
> 
> Guess that's why they have "safety feet" on the nose of the guns that need to be depressed before you can pull the trigger.>>>


I was on a lake construction job in south Texas in the early 80s and a construction crew was working on a new building at the entrance to the dam. One of the carpenters was up on the header of one of the walls and you guessed it ... he shot two nails into his foot through a bone and into the header. They cut the header off on both sides of his foot and took him to the emergency room.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

at least it wasn't into his lap...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Reminds me of the 'The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets Nest'...
_"After a brief struggle and chase, Salander outwits Niedermann by nailing his feet to the plank floor with a nail gun"_

I preferred the Noomi Rapace version.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Reminds me of the 'The Girl Who Kicked the Hornets Nest'...
> _"After a brief struggle and chase, Salander outwits Niedermann by nailing his feet to the plank floor with a nail gun"_
> 
> I preferred the Noomi Rapace version.


I need to get out more...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Noomi Popcorn For You, Matey!*



Stick486 said:


> I need to get out more...


https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B004R9Q2EI...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1977604502&pf_rd_i=B006G89C0O
Probably cheaper S. of 49.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B004R9Q2EI...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1977604502&pf_rd_i=B006G89C0O
> Probably cheaper S. of 49.


that is now on the BARD list...


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## Kate396 (Mar 22, 2017)

Safety reminders are always a good thing.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Just re-read this, some good information and a strong reminder to pay close attention. BTW, I did rearrange my shop so wood isn't falling on me anymore. Biggest problem is the stuff that winds up on the floor. Don't know how it keeps filling up with little junk just about as fast as I manage to clean it up. Not quite enough shelf space, and things get pushed off the edge of the workbench.


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## DuanePhillips (May 19, 2017)

Seldonman said:


> Thought I would share this Safety Message with you as it might help someone be a little more safe in the shop. This is basically a copy of the e-mail I sent my Father-in-Law, whom as you may recall gave me most of my wood working tools.
> 
> Well Monday was an overcast and cool (high 80's) day so I decided to go out into the shop and start her up for the season. As I started to do some work I stopped myself and said, "You know Jim, you have been meaning to upgrade your safety equipment and you have been putting it off." So off I went to Home depot and bought a new 3M half face mask industrial filter. I have been using your old one and it works fine but I can no longer buy new filters for it and the straps are getting old and worn. I also bought ear muff for hearing protection as I have been using ear plugs that you have to roll up. Then I bought a new pair of hard plastic eye protectors to replace your old soft plastic protector that was hard to see through along with a dust mask for sawing operations.
> 
> I know the eye protectors are a one hundred percent improvement because I went to put them on and could not find them; that's when I realized I was wearing them. Also, the ear muffs are quick and easy to put on and I really like them. So, after spending a good chunk of money was I safe? Unfortunately, the answer was no as I got what I think is my worst shop accident to-date, if you don't include the time I jammed the newly sharpened chisel into my thumb. You see, I was ripping and crossing cutting some wood on the table saw for about a half hour when all of sudden I was done and turned off the saw, cleaned up and put the saw back. Quick aside, I am getting very good at using the table saw and making precise cuts. Anyways, I put the saw away and cleaned up the shop when I decided to pull out my router table. No problem there, the table is on wheels and its unplugged. However, as I was pulling the table out into the middle of the garage I lightly brushed a 2 x 2 piece of 3/4 MDF leaning against the wall and it fell over. In the process of falling over a corner brushed my leg like a knife and left a 3 to 4 inch scrap; not a gash. But boy did that thing start to bleed so I went inside and cleaned it with rubbing alcohol and headed to the drug store for some spray on bandage. I had to go to two different store but finally found it and when I went home and applied it I nearly went through the ceiling! So I am fine but who would ever have thought I would get hurt moving the router table. I may have to start wearing long pants in the garage. And yes, I have moved that piece of MDF and other pieces of wood to a safer location! There is a good ending to the story in that I shared my story at a safety meeting at work and won two movie passes. However, I think I would have like not to have had this happen in the first place!


Thanks for sharing.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to clean my garage out , as it looks like a bomb went off . Can't be safe when your tripping over wood everywhere you step 

The owner of WP here in town had his worse injury from arborite believe it or not . 
He was rolling up a sheet for a customer , when it broke and slashed his hand open , requiring 17 stitches:fie:


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