# what is the best cnc software



## wood need 2 work (May 7, 2011)

what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
any advice?


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the router forum, Shawn

Thank you for joining us


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## wood need 2 work (May 7, 2011)

Thanks James, I hope to learn a lot here


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## dermer2002 (May 29, 2010)

Hi Shawn,

Disclaimer, the following are my OPINIONS! I am no expert, just a craftsman trying to learn new techniques and methods.

I am working thru this issue right now. From what I can see in my internet research, (many hours) there are actually 3 kinds of software involved. (please note, I am NOT an experienced CNC user, I am purchasing an american made machine and haven't received it yet).

At any rate, first there is the software that runs the controller that drives the stepper or server motors that move the router in 3 dimensions. From what I see, the most well known is Mach3 by ArcSoft. The have a user forum here. Again, you have lots of choices to sift thru.

Then you need a software that tells Mach3 what to do, like which tooling you are using, what depths of cut, how many passes, and lots more parameters.There are many; the Shark (sold on Rockler.com) comes with Vectric's Vcarve Pro. Another is BobCad-Cam V24. And each has different versions with different functions and different prices. You can spend days trying to determine which one you want to use. 

IF you buy a complete unit (hopefully a brand name) the CNC router manufacturer will probably include software with the unit. From what I can see there are LOTS of parameters and tools in any of these types of software and each brand has a pretty steep learning curve. Pay close attention to the availability of support, as sometimes it can cost nearly as much as the software. If you decide to jump into the _real_ fire and want to build your first unit, be prepared to spend lots of hours on the different CNC forums learning a huge amount of new terms, techniques, and device names. Truthfully, I gave up on that idea. I'd rather spend my time woodworking.

then, there is the software to actually create a design in a format that the CAD/CAM software will import. Here the market is even larger and includes apps like AutoCad, TurboCad, SolidWorks, and Googles Sketchup (not the free version, tho, it will only export a .skp file which most CAD/CAM software won't recognize). Most will have a limited function trial software that you can download, but I found using them difficult as a beginner with no training. Some are quite expensive, have MANY functions, and are hard to learn. I seems to me that most require lots of study and practice, and their tutorials can be difficult or impossible to decipher without support and instruction.

From my perspective, and I have been woodworking for several decades, using hand and power tools. Moving into CNC routing is arduous and challenging, but I am hoping to finally be able to create my designs in quantities that make it profitable. 

I hope this gives you some idea of the challenges you would face.

Dermer


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

BobCAD (and some other CAD applications) are capable of being used to design the components in CAD then export (convert) the CAD drawing of individual components to a machine-specific post file (normally in a flavour of ISO G-Code) which the CNC controller software cam understand _without the need for other application programs_. There is a definite blurring of the specifics [sic] in the area of CAD and CADCAM because of different applications' abilities to handle 2D, 2-1/2D and 3D CAD and CAM outputs. 

As someone who's used earlier versions of BobCAD as well as Biesse RoverCAD (a machine-specific package) and AutoCAD with CADCode to generate my CAD drawings and post files I'd say that the OP might be best trying out some of the CAD packages available first, then seeing whether a post processor was available to create the required CNC controller specific code he'll need (it probably is). Another thing to take into account is the type of work the OP is going to do. Simple 2D or 2-1/2D to produce flat components (thing flat-pack furniture parts) is a much simpler and cheaper for the software vendor to impliment than full-blown 3D CAD even without the need to support 5-axis machining. Oh, and on the BobCAD front a lot of folk out there lost faith with BobCAD somewhere around version 20. I know I did, but then I never really needed 3D CAD.

Regards

Phil


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## Cuemaker (May 14, 2011)

I use mach3 interface and Vectric Vcarve Pro6 and Aspire3. Vcarve Pro is 2d and 2 1/2d software design and Aspire is 3d. A lot depends on your $$$... I have a K2CNC with 4 axis servo motors. Love the products I have.....


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## aplummer (Jun 1, 2011)

*EnRoute Software*

EnRoute Software provides robust production tools for doing things like creating accurate toolpaths, nesting parts, adding bridges or specifying lead-in/lead-out parameters AND creative design tools for 3D engraving and parametric texturing and unique Rapid Texturing.

EnRoute Software also interfaces with most kitchen design software programs converting DXF files into layered output files and cut lists.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Dermer really hit it on the head. 

Since you are looking at the Shark, you aren't going to be cutting kitchen cabinets or full plywood sheets. I just checked the Shark site and it ships with Vectric V-Carve Pro 5. That software is very good and will keep you very busy and able to learn in the beginning. It doesn't include CAD.

My suggestion is to learn the CNC with the included software and then figure out what you need. CAD packages are not the easiest to conquer without some background.

I have had BobCAD/CAM since 2005 at V-17 and currently have seats for V-21 and V-23. To be honest, V-21 is doing all that I need and I haven't taken the time to learn the 3-D based V-23. Having an integrated CAM utility to generate the g-code from the CAD is helpful. BobCAD lets you "simulate" the tool path right over the CAD so you can see if something isn't obviously wrong. 

Many CAD programs that can create files for CNC today are very powerful and with that are quite overwhelming to someone with out any prior CAD experience or formal training. Not impossible, but not intuitive.

Most CAD packages have "demo" or 30 trial versions you can try. Take advantage of them.

Steve.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

With all the discussion on which programs people favor nothing has been mentioned about pricing which may be a big factor for a beginner. Ease of use is great unless the software is priced out of your budget. Since we are world wide pricing will vary greatly from one country to another but I think it would be helpful to have a general idea of costs as well as features. I have no knowledge of using any of the design software; my CNC knowledge is based on repairing stuff. A friend is an instructor for Catia and he let me play with V5 R15 a bit, an amazing program.


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

There are many solutions that are low cost for cnc routing. The big thing is knowing what you want to do. Cut2 and Cut 3 V carve pro and Aspire offer great wood working tools for routing and craving. These systems offer an upgrade path and either will be included with your machine sale or would cost your $150 to start and up to $1500 or so on the top end. 

Now I do work for BobCAD and feel our solutions is very good too. It's CAD CAM all in one system. Now it is more mechanical in design but with the ART package it give you tool to create awesome parts. 

If you look in the shark forum you'll see a post I made that walks through a project I recently did. I would post it here but I can't post web links for the videos until I have 10 posts. 

So in the end any software you get will work, what will be the best for you is really what you like the most and what you can afford. 

I hope this helps. 

Al


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## gary penwright (Aug 19, 2010)

does anyone have step by step instructions for v carve


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

Download the free trial or watch the videos on the site which will show step by step on how to use there software.

Download Trial Versions and Tutorials


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Mike brought up a key point earlier in this post, the pricing. And then, you have to understand what you get with the lower priced options.

I downloaded the demo version of Cut-2D from Vectric. It was inexpensive at $150. Using the demo I found it had a lot of good features, but you were restricted in that package to closed vectors. What that means is if you want to CNC a series of unconnected lines, it is not possible unless you make them extremely small rectangles. Think about making a ruler with lines every certain distance, you would have to make each line a rectangle and slightly wider than your cutting tool.

V-Carve Pro is well respected for 2-D signs at $600, while the best CAD/CAM at Vectic is Aspire for $2,000. If you read the Aspire information it dwells on 3D relief from 2D sketches. The gallery of pictures only show signs and carvings. There is no information on if you wanted to actually design a mechanism with interfacing parts. 

I would love to have V-Carve or Aspire, but I don't do what they are best at. It wouldn't make money sense for me. To really do those carvings you need a CNC with spindle and very high movement rate. Read a bit on how many hours some of the 3-D carvings take to cut.

Steve.


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## Nice Carvings (Nov 20, 2011)

garypenwright said:


> does anyone have step by step instructions for v carve


I believe there are many videos for Vcarve Pro on the vectric website. You will also receive them on a disc if you purchase it.

Did you download the trial version?


We use Aspire 3.5 and its really great piece of software, and getting better with about 2 major upgrades per year.


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## Papaoso42 (Apr 21, 2011)

I am currently using "Vectric Aspire". Not only is the price reasonable but it allows me to design and mill in 3D. Costs about $2,000.00. Best money I ever spent.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

*A bit more Vectric info*



Papaoso42 said:


> I am currently using "Vectric Aspire". Not only is the price reasonable but it allows me to design and mill in 3D. Costs about $2,000.00. Best money I ever spent.


Have you designed anything in the CAD side from scratch where mating parts needed to fit together? 

I didn't download the demo to try it, but the site information didn't say anything about being able to draw a gear, cut slots, repetitive drilling, pocket mill, nest or dimensional accuracy. All the focus and the gallery were on 3D Art and signs.

Steve.


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

As said in this thread look at what your budget is, look at what you want to carve.
almost every software has a free trial some are limited from the full blown software some are not.
I download a few so far and followed there tutorials video and written. you will get hundreds of different answers on this kinda like buying a car test them out and see what you like best. I believe the shark pro you want to purchase comes with Vetric Vcarve pro 5 and it is a very good software and will do most things with the exception of 3D also look at what kind of support is offered with the software. Any of the Vetric software is fairly easy to use they all will have a learning curve hope this helps..

Lou


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## Routnabout (Dec 17, 2005)

Cut2D is Vectrics entry level and was design to import and cam 2D vectors. Before release they added basic drawing tools. The biggest draw back with the drawing tools is there is no line line to. To create a line you need to drawl a box and remove 3 sides of the box. Then using the node editing tools you can move and manipulate the line where you need it to be.
There are a few guys cutting gears for clocks and scaled cars for electric trains using Cut2D.

SteveMI you are correct that you need to draw small rectangles/boxs to run a toolpath down a line. ( I haven't checked in the last couple years to see if this has changed)

Vcarve Pro and Aspire both have the same 2D drawing tools along with the same 2D toolpathing options.
Vectric also has made sure they keep the user interface simple and easy to use.
Very easy learning curve
Everything about the drawing / toolpathing tools are well documented in the help and video tutorials.
Forum members won't let your questions go unanswered along with the support of the Staff at Vectric.
I've been using Vectric software since 2005. Good Stuff.

But as posted earlier, it all depends on the Users needs are. All software has Demos, Some time limited some are not.
Since this is my second post, I don't think I post images or links.


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## wood need 2 work (May 7, 2011)

with bob cad do you need to buy updates or newer versions periodically ?


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## Papaoso42 (Apr 21, 2011)

SteveMI said:


> Have you designed anything in the CAD side from scratch where mating parts needed to fit together?
> 
> I didn't download the demo to try it, but the site information didn't say anything about being able to draw a gear, cut slots, repetitive drilling, pocket mill, nest or dimensional accuracy. All the focus and the gallery were on 3D Art and signs.
> 
> Steve.


Actually yes. Simple 2D stuff but complex none the less and it turned out great! The main thing is to ensure that your CNC router is fine tuned so when you are telling it that it needs to move an inch on the X,Y, or Z axis that it moves exactly an inch. The softwrae (Vectric Aspire) is awesome! in addition, whenever they have majore updates they always allow you to update for free.


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

*BobCAD CAM*

Updates / Maintenance 

BobCAD offers same series updates free of charge. So if you purchased V24 and updates we have for the version are available to download off our website. 

Software Updates | BobCAD-CAM

We do come out with upgrades every 12 -18 months. Upgrades will be made available at a discounted rate to customers. If you choose not to purchase the upgrade it will not effect your customer status. 

Now CUT2D and CUT 3D and Aspire are very nice software packages. To learn more about shark users and CUT 2D check out CNC Shark Forum • Index page



BobCAD CAM Software products are more mechanical in nature. You may find the vetrics product to be easier to navigate and BobCAD more rigid. 

In the end it's up to you to decide what product is best for your needs. You can download both packages and do a test run. 

If you have any questions about BobCAD CAM products and would like a live demo I can help. 

Al DePoalo
BobCAM Team Leader.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

SteveMI said:


> Mike brought up a key point earlier in this post, the pricing. And then, you have to understand what you get with the lower priced options.
> 
> I downloaded the demo version of Cut-2D from Vectric. It was inexpensive at $150. Using the demo I found it had a lot of good features, but you were restricted in that package to closed vectors. What that means is if you want to CNC a series of unconnected lines, it is not possible unless you make them extremely small rectangles. Think about making a ruler with lines every certain distance, you would have to make each line a rectangle and slightly wider than your cutting tool.
> 
> ...


Steve, 

Actually what you said about Cut 2D is not accurate. Cut 2D has some ability to create parts that are not constructed of rectangle etc and you are restricted to closed vectors..

People often miss the fact that Cut 2D has a node editing feature similar to that used in Adobe Illustrator. There are several powerful commands that allow you to manipulate the control points of a drawing. You can add points, remove points , convert them to Bezier curves with control handle etc. 

When you use node editing then there is very little that you can't draw inside Cut2D. However , it may be easier to draw in a dedicated CAD package or drawing package and import the drawing into Cut 2D. 

I hope that helps someone looking at Cut 2D. I have no association with Vectric other that being a happy customer. If anyone need help with their software let me know I would be glad to help. I own V-Carve Pro, Photo V-Carve, Cut #D and Aspire.


Bill


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

Video Links for BobCAD-CAM V24

CAD Layout

CAD Basic Layout for Engraving and Part Zero - adepoalo's library


CAD Edit

BobART Part 2 Image Tracing - adepoalo's library


V Carve

2011-06-02_1023 - adepoalo's library

Textures 

Textures with BobART - adepoalo's library


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## mbr72cnc (Feb 15, 2010)

Here's my 2 cents worth, price is a factor when choosing a cad/cam package. Cut2D is an entry level software that is very powerful tool for $150.00 USD. You can import 3 dimensional models into it, except they have to be imported from VectorArt 3D Machinist, Aspire, PhotoVcarve, (only Vectrics software). Another GOOD entry level is ArtCAM Express. Very powerful tool for 2D, 2.5D, and 3D work. Can import many formats, I like to use stl file they are a generic 3d file commonly used. If your budget lets you purchase more advanced software there is BobCad, VisualMill, Aspire, and many more. The software I use is ArtCAM, PhotoVcarve, Cut2D, VisualMILL, VisualART, and Alibre cad. Just to add all these have their uses. Many decisions when starting out cnc routing. Have fun and Happy Cutting.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

mbr72cnc said:


> Here's my 2 cents worth, price is a factor when choosing a cad/cam package. Cut2D is an entry level software that is very powerful tool for $150.00 USD. You can import 3 dimensional models into it, except they have to be imported from VectorArt 3D Machinist, Aspire, PhotoVcarve, (only Vectrics software). Another GOOD entry level is ArtCAM Express. Very powerful tool for 2D, 2.5D, and 3D work. Can import many formats, I like to use stl file they are a generic 3d file commonly used. If your budget lets you purchase more advanced software there is BobCad, VisualMill, Aspire, and many more. The software I use is ArtCAM, PhotoVcarve, Cut2D, VisualMILL, VisualART, and Alibre cad. Just to add all these have their uses. Many decisions when starting out cnc routing. Have fun and Happy Cutting.


I couldn't agree more. There are uses and functionality that each package has that are unique to those packages. I also use a mix of programs. All the ones you mentioned are good.

Bill


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

Ditto that is what I use and will be upgrading to VCarve Pro..


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

bgriggs said:


> I own V-Carve Pro, Photo V-Carve, Cut #D and Aspire.


Bill,

Can Aspire work like a full mechanical CAD package? Can I spec a gear or spiral and have it drawn in position? Can a file have multiple line to line parts?

Also, anyone who wants a non-factory opinion of Vectric, the people at Sawmill Creek Woodworkers Community - The Sawmill Creek Press are huge fans of Vectric.

Steve.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

SteveMI said:


> Bill,
> 
> Can Aspire work like a full mechanical CAD package? Can I spec a gear or spiral and have it drawn in position? Can a file have multiple line to line parts?
> 
> ...


Steve,

The short answer is no. A mechanical CAM package is designed to work with assemblies. The feature you are describing is called Parametric modeling. You specify the parameters of a design and they DRIVE the drawing.

There are ways to make a gear easily in Aspire using the Circular array command. Simply model one tooth and Copy/rotate it around the center point automatically. 

I am not sure what you mean by Line to line parts. If you mean a nested bunch of parts laid out on the work piece, then yes. Could you please explain further?

Several forums have active posts about Vectric products. CNCzone, RCGroups etc. In my opinion, Vectric software is good because it work well without too much brain power needed. It does a lot of things well. No product is perfect but I will say they have some of the best customer service I have ever experienced. 

Bill


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Bill,

Next month I will be able to start answering my own questions on Vectric. I'm getting access to a Shopbot and Aspire. Really looking forward to it and will give an update later.

No personal knowledge, but have heard repeatedly about "best customer service I have ever experienced" being a Vectric strength. 

BobCAD is not a challenger in the customer service arena. The earlier BobCAD support forums were mainly user moderator run and they have now went to a pay forum with an unknown level of expertise. I never used it, but they always had a "pay for answers" support line. This is not much different than high end industry software like Autodesk (AutoCAD) or Dassault (Solidworks), although I would question if BobCAD is in that level.

Steve.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

SteveMI said:


> Bill,
> 
> Next month I will be able to start answering my own questions on Vectric. I'm getting access to a Shopbot and Aspire. Really looking forward to it and will give an update later.
> 
> ...


Steve, 

Great news that you get to play with CNC next month. You will easily become addicted. 

My experience with Vectric's customer service have all been good. The only time I was unhappy with their product really had nothing to do with customer service.

I had work quite a while on a file and then hit save followed immediately by hitting the RED X button to close the program. In an earlier version (two years ago) of the software you had to wait for the save process to complete before using the Red X to close. The program didn't check to see if any processes were still going...... Thus I lost the file. I wrote VECTRIC an email about the problem and they FIXED it immediately and put out a patch. That is what good customer service is about, fixing problems. 

If you want to see what everyone is raving about, just download the demo programs and watch a few tutorial videos. You will quickly form an opinion about which software works for you.

Bill

So i guess my problem was with the expectation and not customer service.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

Bill,

Just to be clear, I've had my own CNC since 2005 and have used several different CAD & CAM packages, controllers and interfaces. My CNC came with an interface that could use Corel HPGL going straight to the CNC, which was fine if you only wanted text or basic shapes. While some can, precise CAD in Corel is an art. That is still quite common in Europe where my machine has its roots. 

My 16" by 24" CNC was bought as full turn key system with a German controller. I upgrade to a Gecko 540 about a year ago which I installed myself. At the same time I went completely to Mach 3, which I have had since it was Mach 2.

CAD packages I have used; AutoCad (early), Alibre, TurboCAD and BobCAD. BobCAD at version 21 was the easiest for me to use. The latest Autocad is just plain out of my budget. Full Aspire is not in my garage shop budget either.

I have had BobCAD since Version 17. Being able to have the CAD package with an integrated CAM to generate g-code was a big factor in my starting with and staying with BobCAD. In the 2005 time frame there were no CAD packages at a budget consumer level that had a CAM capability I could find.

From 2003 thru 2008 I worked primarily in R&D with a lot of interfacing to commercial CNC houses for prototypes and tooling. That gave me quite an insight to CNC.

Steve.


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

Steve,

I read some of the earlier post ib this thread. You have all the tools you need. Alibre will allow you to design your cad to be imported into V Carve pro or you can draw many things in V-Carve pro by itself. You just have to learn new skills on how V-Carve does things.

I drew a gear today strictly in Vectric products to make sure what I say is true.....

There are so many ways to skin this cat.

Bill


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

*Getting Started with DXF Files*

Hello Everyone! 

I wanted to show how the BobCAD CAM Software works with DXF files. These groups of videos will walk you through the basic steps of using the BobCAD CAM Software. 



This video walks through the steps of opening a DXF file and moving the part to zero.

Working with DXF Files - adepoalo's library


This video walks you through the steps of cleaning up geometry and using layers to organize your part.

Geometry Clean up _ Machining features separation - adepoalo's library



This video walks you through the steps of drilling and tapping the holes for this sample drawing.

Drill Tap - adepoalo's library



This video walks you through the steps of cutting the slots for this drawing. We are using the profile feature and contour ramping, which will ramp down to cut the slot out.

Machining Slots - adepoalo's library



This video walks through the steps of cutting the pockets. I show how you can use top of job to change where the tool starts cutting from. Using top of part settings is great for when you are cutting a pocket inside a pocket. This way you don’t cut air.

Pockets - adepoalo's library


This video walks through the steps of cleaning up the walls of the pockets. I use the profile feature with side roughing. This allows the tool to walk into the wall and clear any extra stock that might have been left over.

Pocket wall clean up - adepoalo's library


This video walks through the steps of simulating your program and posting code.

Simulation _ Posting - adepoalo's library



Question: If my simulation show the tools cutting in the wrong order, how do I change that?

Answer: The machining order can be set to ” individual tool ” or ” individual Feature”
Watch this video to learn more: Machining Order - adepoalo's library



Question: Why does the software call more than one tool when drilling a hole. What if I only want to call a drill, instead of a center drill, a drill and a chamfer tool?

Answer: We use tool patters to optimize hole making processes. The idea is to call and program all the tools need to make the kind of hole you want to make. You can customize the patters to fit your needs. Watch this video to learn how: Tool Patterns - adepoalo's library



Al DePoalo


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## subtleaccents (Nov 5, 2011)

wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?



So far I have read all the posts to your request. But, I don't know what type of program you are looking for.

What type of work are you looking to do with your machine? Will you be doing 2D flat work like cutting cabinet parts or are you going to get into the 3D type modeling or 3D sign work.
The answer to my questions will dictate which program would best serve you needs and what price catagory you will be in.


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

subtleaccents said:


> So far I have read all the posts to your request. But, I don't know what type of program you are looking for.
> 
> What type of work are you looking to do with your machine? Will you be doing 2D flat work like cutting cabinet parts or are you going to get into the 3D type modeling or 3D sign work.
> The answer to my questions will dictate which program would best serve you needs and what price catagory you will be in.


The Shark Pro comes with VCarvePro not sure which version since they just updated to 6.5 a few months back. This is good software for most 2.5 projects I have a copy myself it will not do 3D modeling it is the most user friendly software I could fine believe me I spent months doing research the most bang for your buck. You can go to Vetric.com and download a free trial of all there software there are also full video tutorials on all the software and a great friendly user forum . Vectric - CNC Software Solutions - Wood Carving - Engraving - Signmaking - Routing - Machining
hope this helps..
Lou


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

It all depends what kind of cnc you have and what you want to do with it. Many choices available but to run the cnc I find Mach3 the best, including their support forum.

To design items and get the gcode I use MastercamX5, excellent software but expensive


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## mbr72cnc (Feb 15, 2010)

In my opinion the best software especially for beginners, is ArtCam Express 2012. For the low cost of $149 it is as powerful as vcarve pro. I have Vectrics software also but seem to go back to ArtCam. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## mbr72cnc (Feb 15, 2010)

Just my opinion, ArtCam Express 2012 is the best out there for entry level user. At the low cost of $149 you can't beat it. Its ease of use and short learning curve it is very powerful, equal to Vcarve Pro. Opinions may vary  , Like mentioned before it depends on what you plan on cutting. What ever you choose remember the learning portion of all software.


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

bgriggs said:


> Steve,
> 
> Great news that you get to play with CNC next month. You will easily become addicted.
> 
> ...



For what you want you may not need Aspire Vcave pro may be all you need or even cut 2d


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

There are lots of products to choose from for CAD CAM programming. BobCAD is one of those solutions and for what it cost and the options is offers is a great solution for many. To decided is one system is better for your vs another your best bet is to download a copy and try it for yourself.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

aldepoalo said:


> There are lots of products to choose from for CAD CAM programming. BobCAD is one of those solutions and for what it cost and the options is offers is a great solution for many. To decided is one system is better for your vs another your best bet is to download a copy and try it for yourself.


did that once...
between your sales people calling and the amount of spam that hit the in box all together went over the top in harassment and was very annoying...
you people made me sick of you...


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> did that once...
> between your sales people calling and the amount of spam that hit the in box all together went over the top in harassment and was very annoying...
> you people made me sick of you...


That was the same as me even when I told them I had purchased another brand they kept it up.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fixtureman said:


> That was the same as me even when I told them I had purchased another brand they kept it up.


they're harder to get rid of than the plague...


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> they're harder to get rid of than the plague...


They're as bad as Rachel I think they work in the same office.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

fixtureman said:


> They're as bad as Rachel I think they work in the same office.


oh yeah... her...
blocking her number doesn't even help....


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

BobCAD-CAM Sales team has been under new management for the last 2 years. Yes we have been know to be aggressive with our sales calls. Times have changed and I will assume the negative threads are based on user experiences from more than a few years ago. 

If you are a BobCAD customer and wish not to get any calls from our company please send me a PM with all your contact information. I will edit your account in our CRM and make sure you are not on any calls list. 

I personally apologize, and if there is anything I can do to help you with BobCAD in any way please let me know.


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

this happened when I downloaded v25 so you are wrong again


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

BobCAD-CAM Sales team has been under new management for the last 2 years. 
*Yes we have been know to be aggressive with our sales calls. *
that is an understatement....

Times have changed and I will assume the negative threads are based on user *experiences from more than a few years ago.*
No...
August last year....
The harassment only stopped when I changed providers in November...

If you are a BobCAD customer and wish not to get any calls from our company please send me a PM with all your contact information. I will edit your account in our CRM and *make sure you are not on any calls list.*
I would be very afraid of giving you my new information...
As for the old info, contact it to your heart's content.... Nobody there...

I personally apologize, and if there is anything I can do to help you with BobCAD in any way please let me know.


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Some machines will come with packaged software for running the machine and/or designing your projects. These packaged software programs may be all that you need however if you need more than they provide then look around to see what is available.

There are some programs that are free and will help with some projects, the price is right also.

Most of the software companies have free trial software so you can try it before you buy it. Download all of the trial programs and give each one a chance. You might find more than one that the combined cost will be cheaper than buying one that won't quite do everything you want to do.

I use several Vectric Programs Aspire 3.5 , Photo V-carve, Cut 3d, and 3d Machinist.
I also use ViaCad 2d/3d for some of my design work.

You will use the software you are most familiar with and think is it the only thing to use but other people will not share your opinions. To be fair try all of them you get a chance to try. 
I have been testing BobCad V25 for a few days and have had problems with it running on my system. I contacted a BobCad sales representative (Dan) and there were a few questions he could not address so I was transferred to a technician (Cody) and through an interactive session he was able to address the questions. They were very helpful and they will give you a good deal on their software package. If you watch some of the videos aldepoalo has uploaded they are helpful as well.

I am downloading ArtCam software right now so I can evaluate their software next. 

I will most likely stay with the software I am using because it works for me but I do want to know what is available and how it works before I make judgments about software I have never even tried.

Bottom line, test ... test ... test


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## opticsguy (Nov 9, 2012)

Hello Max, where are you located in the Pacific NW? I live up in the Bellingham area. Would greatly enjoy meeting a real person who is working with CNC.

Thanks!!!


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

When I download trial software i shy away from software that requires you to fill out personal info. I want to be the one contacting them and not having them pester me. Once they get your info they can contact you without any repercussions according to the do not call laws.


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## Harryspur (Nov 22, 2011)

Why did you abandon your original controller, I have a German machine and controller and would not cross my mind to change it.


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

*Parts cut in BobCAD*

Simple BobART Example - YouTube






upload




images


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

SteveMI said:


> Have you designed anything in the CAD side from scratch where mating parts needed to fit together?
> 
> I didn't download the demo to try it, but the site information didn't say anything about being able to draw a gear, cut slots, repetitive drilling, pocket mill, nest or dimensional accuracy. All the focus and the gallery were on 3D Art and signs.
> 
> Steve.


The answer to most of those questions is yes it has those abilities. Nest, pocket, repetitive drilling, cut slots not sure what you mean by dimensional accuracy.


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## bingaom (Oct 30, 2013)

hi guys, Hello to all
I am so confused about CAD n CAM softwares, that i assemble my new cnc router 6040,
but 10 days past still not able to decide which will easy and compatible to my machine.,
I am beginner for cnc, i operates most machines .
please advice me on this. Thanks in advance.


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## bingaom (Oct 30, 2013)

[CENTER said:


> bgriggs;260042]Steve,
> 
> hello steve., you could help me on this software decision.
> I got my new cnc router 6040 from china, 2 weeks after assembly, still i not decide which is user friendly cad cam software for it. i google lot but no luck.
> ...


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## LMan (Nov 23, 2010)

You are asking for the best software you will get many different answers. Do you have software to run your CNC such as Mach3 Newfangled Solutions » CNC Software Home of Mach3 this is what I use what it does is reads the G code and moves or tells your CNC to move your axis to a given point where to and what depth to carve, carving to what you created in your cam/cad software. They are also coming out with Mach4 which will is improved not sure what they have added it is in the beta stage right now. For cad/cam I use Vetric VCarvePro7 all Vetric software is the easy to use at a reasonable price. Go to the web site Vectric Ltd - Passionate About CNC and they have free downloads to try out they have free tutorials video and written instructions and they have a forum. They have basic 2D software 3D software and advanced software.I also use for some CAD projects DraftSite DraftSight - Free* CAD software for your DWG files - Dassault Systèmes it is free made by Soild Works they also have free tutorials. There are more expensive software that are in the 5K range it all depends on if you are a hobbyist, or you have a business and want to do production work also there is some software in the 5K range to much for me. Try a few different softwares from different companies and see what you like best there are many different ones to try out for free. Here is a CNC web site CNCzone.com there you will find answers to all your questions hope this helps..

Lou


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

It can be confusing to a newcomer into the CNC world but actually it's simple when you grasp the idea.

CAD (Computer Automated Drawings) is the program you need to make just your drawing; like say you want to make sign, so on the CAD software you will draw your sign with all the required details etc and that is all for the CAD. But I must say that if you never used a CAD before it is not that easy

After you made your drawing in CAD then you will pass this drawing to your CAM (Computer Automated Manufacturing) program. In this program you will define all the cutting parameters involved to actually cut the sign you made in the CAD program.

Then the final process is to pass the CAM file to MACH3 to cut your sign

If you never used a CNC before and you are not familiar with computer programs, there is a lot of new things to learn but don’t get disappointed with all this new learning because the reward is amazing. Take your time. When I started into the cnc world, I was also confused and disappointed but eventually I got it. I found the best source of info on cnc / software is the cnczone dot com forum and the Mach3 forum. You need a lot of careful reading so get started by printing all the info you can get and read, that is how I learned. And if you don’t understand something, ask questions

SheetCam and MeshCam are also alternatives to software you need besides Vcarve and BodCad. All of them include both the CAD and CAM software so in one place you can draw and define the cutting parameters

But in Mach3, there is a free program included called LazyCam which it's not installed automatically but you have to choose it and install it. LazyCam is a basic CAD / CAM software and that is where I did all my learning. It is more than enough to get you started and learn. My suggestion is not to spend tons of money to get any other software for now; just install LazyCam, print the .PDF manual which you download from the Mach3 forum and start reading. You should also download and read completely the Mach3 .PDF manual, that is the most important because in there you will learn how to run Mach3 including all the safety settings of your machine

Remember: you need a lot of reading BEFORE you turn you cnc ON. Don’t turn your cnc ON before otherwise you may be in big trouble

Good luck


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## Atom (Feb 3, 2014)

Hi, I just have to thank you all on this subject as it was just what I needed, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Art


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

There are 3 basic parts of the CNC software cycle. The drawing program. The G-code generator program and the G-Code processing program. I wrote a series of free tutorials that takes you through each steps of making a CNC project. Part 3 talks about CNC Design software which can do the first two functions mentioned above. 

I hope this helps you.

CNC SIGN PROJECTS - CNC DESIGN SOFTWARE -

Bill


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## Atom (Feb 3, 2014)

Thanks Bill, I will look at series in the morning, Art


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

Your welcome Art.

Bill


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## vnyati25 (Mar 29, 2014)

*best software is artcam as per me....*

artcam is perfect software for woodworking.


wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?


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## Cuemaker (May 14, 2011)

shark pro comes with* vcarve pro*... no need to go any farther in your shopping....


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

You'll get VCarve Pro and Cut3D with your CNC Shark unless you buy used. You can't create anything with Cut3D, but you can take 3D files created elsewhere and toolpath them for cutting out on the Shark.


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## Maryland CNC (Jul 27, 2014)

Thanks


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## Maryland CNC (Jul 27, 2014)

*Vectric*

Vectric Aspire


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## mnwolgamott (Jul 23, 2010)

*CNC software*



wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?


I use Aspire 4.0 pricey but very good, and Mach 3 but Shark pro should come with controller software.

A good combination.


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## Carlswoodturning (Mar 6, 2013)

I see some responses are from experienced users, I have one year working with my home made CNC router, and CNC lathe. In doing my research before buying software, I made one right choice, Mach 3 to control the machine, seems to be the gold standard, most used, and I have enjoyed using it with minimal difficulty.

Not so good with my choice of CADCAM. Your best choice should be based on what you are going to make. I found some that looked good, but were more for metal working. The more artistic oriented, seemed that ArtCam and the Vectric products were the best for 2d wood working and 2-1/2D & 3D. I'm told Vectric was started by former ArtCam employees.

My VERY WRONG (imho) choice was to go with ArtCam. Several experienced friends tell me the other, Vectric is much more user friendly, great support, better learning resources. 

ArtCam is NOT well suited for a beginner. It gives error messages, but it's very difficult to find an explanation of the error and how to fix it. The forum for ArtCam has some very helpful people, some have helped me by fixing my error ridden files, but still couldn't tell me what was wrong, and how to fix my next projects. The list goes on, I did learn a lot of new words that my wife found unpleasant, and btw, I'm very experienced with advanced computer systems, just not Cad Cam. 

I could go on, but only with negatives about ArtCam. A recent conversation with a local professional cnc'er leads me to believe the Vectric products are much better, so I'll be burning (with fire) my other software soon, and trying Vectric. He explained his 20 year history with several companies, mostly ArtCam and Vectric, and was very positive about V, while agreeing with my opinion about AC.

Good luck, maybe ArtCam is the best, it's just me, but my wife who just retired has been working with it while I do the wood working. She has mastered enough of the difficult parts to get us started (after a year with AC). What my local friend said about the two rang true with her also.


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## mnwolgamott (Jul 23, 2010)

I have just read this for the first time, I think Aspire is CAD/CAM in one I'm a former design engineer. Sure it may not be full blown Cad but you can do an awful lot with it and you can product the g-code to run your machine too!

Accuracy pretty good! and I think you can make cabinets if you wanted too.


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## Swdstmakershop (Apr 3, 2015)

I have a homebuilt CNC and use Mach 3 (free for limited use, $175 for full version), Cut2D from Vetric for 2.5 D ($150) and Sketchup from Google for drawing. Sketchup is free except for the hours spent learning how to use it.
The last stage is the Mach 3 that runs on a language called g-code. I suggest you learn the basics of that so minor tweaks can be done more easily.
In any case be prepared to spend hours learning and playing with a CNC but the results are a lot of fun.


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Mach3 also includes the free LazyCam program (CAM) where you can do basic shapes / letters and generate the g-code. I used it years ago when I was learning CNC and I found it very helpfull.


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## Papaoso42 (Apr 21, 2011)

I previously posted that "Vectric Aspire" is a fantastic software. At that point I was using version 3.5. I now have Aspire 8.0 and let me say that it is still the best I have tried to date. I highly recommend it!


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## mnwolgamott (Jul 23, 2010)

*3 types of software posted by Dermer2002*

Of coarse it depends on the accuracy of the product you are making. Plus your ability to draw your files.

Aspire by Vectric can do much of what you are looking for by its ability to draw in its native program and then convert that drawing into code for your machine controller. It also has some 3D capability.

You may want to download the trial version and spend time learning this before the learning curve on a CAD system. This move could cut one complete step out of the equation.

V-carve Pro is excellent for 2D and 2.5D work if this is all you need at a better price advantage. All the CAD or drawing portion is the same as Aspire so learning V-carve pro is a good first step. It is also up-gradable to Aspire latest version. 

Just saying
Mac an old fart


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## mariongee (Apr 19, 2015)

Steve and Bill,
Am very interested in your posts. I am buying a 4th axis rotary in August and have been looking at the Vetric series as well as Arcam Pro. I have also heard about a software called Types that is used a lot over seas. I have done much research and found that my best bet is to make a list of the softwares I want to try, pick a project, and do it with each of the software trial packages to see which one will be best, not only for my use and pocketbook, but also my limited abilities.
It looks as though you will be up and running before I will, so I am very interested in what you have to tell.
Bill, If I go vetric, I may have some questions.


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## mariongee (Apr 19, 2015)

Pappaso42,
About how much did you outlay for Aspire 8, and what do you do with it?


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## bgriggs (Nov 26, 2008)

Aspire retails for $1995. There are also less expensive programs in the line, each of which is upgradeable for basically the cost difference. Prices for the other packages range from $150 to $699.

Disclaimer: I am a licensed Vectric reseller. 

Bill


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## Shadowrider (Apr 1, 2015)

Anybody used MeshCAM? 

I have been away from CNC for over 10 years now. I read bgriggs' article and became enamored with the Nomad 883, mostly because it comes with software. Then I found a video that they were demo'ing in and they stated that it was MeshCAM and you can get it for pretty reasonable cost buying direct. I like the Nomad but it's machining envelope is just too dang small. I'll probably go another route but want a somewhat complete system, I don't mind some assembly if it's all basically there. So that leaves me wondering what CAM package to use. Actually Aspire is really reasonable compared to what I once used, we paid $38K for a seat of software and the unix box to run it on. Like I said, it's been awhile!

Edit to Add: Than you bgriggs, your posts here, youtube videos and articles are very helpful.


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## Billy Hill (Apr 24, 2015)

mariongee said:


> make a list of the softwares I want to try, pick a project, and do it with each of the software trial packages to see which one will be best


Great idea but do your homework on open source/free solutions. These are (usually) free replacement programs for popular software. Think Gimp, Lightworks, Blender and OpenOffice. 

Granted, many do not have all the bells and whistles as their paid-for counter parts, but the ability to try different types of software before you put money into it will help. A lot. 

A couple of CNC related examples are: LinuxCNC is controller software like Mach3, F-Engrave is a font engraving/v-carving software like V-Carve Pro. 



Shadowrider said:


> Anybody used MeshCAM?


I tried it years ago when it was first being developed. Looked pretty solid with an odd learning curve. Then I tried it again a few months ago when I got my CNC router and made one project with the trial version. The .stl it created turned out pretty good. I didn't use the tool path portion to make the part but I generated one and looked at it, looked good. :nerd:


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## Billy Hill (Apr 24, 2015)

I found this just now. Not sure how up to date it is.

wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam

LinuxCNC Documentation Wiki: Cam


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

LinuxCNC is very good CNC control software that runs on Linux. It is not a CAD program or able to assign tool paths to vectors. It is a parallel to Mach3.


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## Billy Hill (Apr 24, 2015)

4DThinker said:


> LinuxCNC is very good CNC control software that runs on Linux. It is not a CAD program or able to assign tool paths to vectors. It is a parallel to Mach3.





Billy Hill said:


> ...
> LinuxCNC is controller software like Mach3


:yes4:


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## mnwolgamott (Jul 23, 2010)

I started with V-carve Pro a very good beginner software for the CNC crowd. It does have some CAD capabilities and can be very accurate if processed the right way, refer to their documents. It can import some types of CAD drawings. It doesn't have full blown CAD capabilities. 

What it does have is a CAM interface to take drawings you make and turn them into g-code to process on your CNC machine. 

I have since upgraded to Aspire 4 a more sophisticated program capable of 3D machining. Using a little grey matter you can also perform 2 sided machining. It can import some types of CAD drawings and some 3D solids. If you are processing automotive parts or Aerospace components these are not the programs for you. If you are a home machinist getting into CNC take another look at the programs but first do a self assessment and figure out what type of CNC work you are going to do. 

Vectric software also has 3D machine software only at a great price, I do not own this program so cannot comment on the attributes. 

Cookie mold is made with Aspire 4, Cribbage boards V-carve Pro.


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## Ryan360 (Jun 22, 2015)

cut 2d is fairly priced, (150$) and super easy to learn and catch on to. 
f-engrave is free and really good for text, and v carving.


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## cel22262 (Dec 28, 2009)

I built this "Joe's Hybird 4x4" and run it with Mach 3 using SketchUp with the Phlatsboys SketchUcam plugin.

The SketchUcam plugin will generate G-Code directly from your Sketchup Model. I use it primarily for 2d and 2.5d work thou it can produce 3d code as well.


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## posthocfallacy (Jan 8, 2014)

*Not all the details from BOBcad.*

I am a mechanical engineer and use SolidWorks for a living and have many friends who are NC Machinists. When I proposed that I would build my own CNC router, one of those friends pointed me to BobCAD, saying that it was very good software in his opinion. So, I went to the BobCAD website to investigate. The next day they called to make me an offer that I couldn't refuse. I asked the salesman if I could design my CNC router with BOBCad, then use it with Arduino or Raspberry Pi controllers and some type of as-yet unspecified stepper motor drivers, with g-code generated by BOBCad. The response was immediate and definitely yes. I paid $200 for the software with the mill package, which the salesman claimed was $1200 software, but would give me a smokin-hot deal because of an end of the month contest that he thought he could win if I bought right away. I have heard this story from used car salesmen before, but ignored it because I thought I could trust my friend who recommended it and $200 WAS incredibly cheap. When it arrived, I started on the tutorials, and found the software to be fairly straight forward just as my friend told me and the salesman reinforced, "especially for someone who knows SolidWorks." They have a tutorial disk that has over 50 video tutorials that are good, in my opinion, not to long and right to the point. But, I was anxious to start on the design of my CNC router, so jumped ahead in the tutorials to find the "assembly" section. There was none. I called Tech Support. It turns out that BOBCad will do parts very well, but is not designed to handle more than one part at a time. How can I build an assembly when it only handles 1 part at a time? They charged me 20% restocking fee, I paid $30 for return shipping, and they sent back my money, which ended up being half of what I paid. It took forever for the refund to find its way to my mailbox. 

Worse, within two weeks of receiving the disks, I had a bill for $350 for a years worth of tech support, that I swear they said was included in the price. That being said, my company pays $1200/year per seat on SolidWorks for support, so the $350 isn't so bad. The problem that I had with them is all the surprises that I had in the 30 days I was dealing with them. I will avoid BOBCad for that reason alone.

The best thing about BOBCad, that may or may not be true given the double talk that one gets from them: They claim they will support ANY controller, period. They just released V28.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

I'm not sure how BobCAD stays in business. Every thread/comment I read about them flashes red flags at me. 

I'm a great fan of Vectric and their products, and like LinuxCNC the more I get to know it. Aspire seemed too expensive after I got VCarve Pro for free (included with my CNC Shark), but now that I'm using it it seems underpriced for its capabilities. LinuxCNC is something I'd gladly pay for.


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## Ryan360 (Jun 22, 2015)

I love cut 2d.


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## robwiacek (Aug 12, 2011)

It really depends on where you are and where you're going.
There are so many machines available at a variety of prices.
I run a KL1212 Chinese, apps 49" x 48" cutting area.
My software is Mach 3 to run the machine. My design software is Mastercam and Aspire. Both are at a school that I work with.
Master can has the greatest capabilities and to put it simple, is more mathematical than Aspire.
Aspire is soooo cool. More visual!
I make Corian guitar templates and solid body electric guitars.
The aspire will be used for more Artistic stuff. Signs, artsy stuff.
If you need any info contact me.
BTW, I Paid $4000.00 used for my machine. Think about what you buy,
If you are restricted by space then maybe a desk top is ok. But, you'll outgrow those little machines in a month of use.


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## ardcole (Jul 27, 2012)

*artcam*

For the money Artcam is great software. I have the Shark pro router and use Alibre design software and artcam. I have all the software which came with the shark also. The only catch is when you try to switch between softwares a lot of them have there own 
file formats and can be a real headache.


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## Vision 25 (Nov 29, 2015)

Hello Shawn
Don't even think in bobcad, terrible tech support and they don't help with communication to your machine, I try for couple years and I still not be able to run my router with Bob cad.


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## lancerfab (Jan 5, 2016)

Digital Tooling is best CNC software.


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## fixtureman (Jul 5, 2012)

run don't walk away from Bob Cad I tried it after years of calling and it doesn't do what they claim. They say anything to get you to buy it and always have some sort of gimmick to try to get you to buy. They are as bad as Rachel or the Microsoft tech support about calling


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## mlk1950 (Jan 24, 2014)

Cuemaker said:


> I use mach3 interface and Vectric Vcarve Pro6 and Aspire3. Vcarve Pro is 2d and 2 1/2d software design and Aspire is 3d. A lot depends on your $$$... I have a K2CNC with 4 axis servo motors. Love the products I have.....


I also use Mach3 and VCarve Pro 6.5. The Aspire is kinda pricey but very,very good. It will basically do everything I would want.


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## softeng (Feb 6, 2016)

*ProCNCDraw*

Simple and easy and cheap software that can convert dxf files and gerber files to G code is ProCNCDraw. It can generate toolpath inside or outside contur. Milling PCBs, makin pocket etc. ekits.eu/PROCNCDraw


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## Tagwatts (Apr 11, 2012)

*Vectric Software for CNC Routers*

I am a Novice at best concerning the CNC Routers. That being said, I purchased the Piranha FX. This Router is made in the USA. When I purchased, the software came with the Router. The company behind the product is (Next Wave Automation). This company stands behind their Routers. If you need support, they provide it. They have people who know what they are talking about. 

You call them and they will send you an email back or they get back to you by phone. You can leave a message and they will get back to you very quickly. The software I use, as I said, came with the machine. It is V Carve Desktop 8 They offer other software such Aspire, V-Carve Pro. V Carve Desktop 8. is quite powerful. I have found there is a learning curve you will need to master, regardless of the software. You can go on line and find such a tremendous amount of material using You tube. Just type in CNC Routers and there is a sea of information.

One of the great helps is the Vectric Forum. It like this forum is to help those using CNC Routers. There is one thing more I can tell you. If you have a "Rockler" Store in your area, they handle the Next Wave Automation products along with others. They have workshops, planned, where you can see them demonstrated. There is usually no cost. unless you go to a special class to be held. The last ad I saw was offering the Piranha FX, on Ebay and they were including a Bosch Palm Router. The machine list for about 1600 dollars. This machine has a X With of 12 inches and 14 inch Y axis along with a 3 inch Z Lift. I would recommend if you are buying as a hobbiest. this router will be fine. I have already found out it is to small for what i would like to do. I would hope this maybe of help to anyone who may be interested in a CNC Router. If you have other questions, that i may answer, ask and I will try to help. Thank You for your time should have read this message.
:laugh2:


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## Vincent Doan (May 28, 2016)

If you do 3D carving then VCarve Pro from Vectric is the most user friendly software to use.
If you do marquetry and inlay, then ImagePaint GCode Pro is your only choice at amazoncanvas.


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

hmmm


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## aldepoalo (Mar 31, 2011)

After reading a few bad reviews on the BobCAD software I would like to extend an apology. I take 100% responsibility for any ill will you may have against BobCAD as a product or company. 

I would like to resolve any issues you may have with your account. Please contact me directly at 877-262-2231 X147 or if you prefer you can reach me after hours on my cell phone 727-479-6328. If I do not answer it's best to send a text message. 

Thank you


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## houcein (Jan 6, 2017)

rhino 3D


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

*Some update for 2017*

Reading through this thread it seems like some newer options have not been mentioned.

AutoDesk Fusion 360 runs on both Mac and PC and is a very powerful 3D CAD with integrated CAM. Unlike some packages listed above it does not only does 3D solid modelling, it also handles assemblies and can even create various kinds of moveable joints and animate assemblies. Best of all, the full version is FREE for hobbyists and startups earning under $100,000 per year! This package is being actively developed to add new features on an almost monthly basis. 

Also, Autodesk has also acquired ArtCAM. There are now 3 versions: ArtCAM free is very comparable to Vectri,c Cut2d, but is completely free.
ArtCAM standard is very comparable to Vectric's Aspire program, and is $360 per year - you can subscribe for 5 years (getting all updates that come out) for less than the price of Aspire. It is also available on a monthly subscription for $45 per month if you only occasionally need it or are on a tight budget. While I generally hate subscribing to software, it can help if you do not want to (or can't afford to) spend a lot at once.

And as for machine control software, Mach4, which has been in deveopment for forever it seems, is now in a very usable state. It is $200 (no upgrade from Mach 3 is availabe). I have never used Mach3, but I was able to put Mach4 on my recently built DIY cnc router and have no problems. From what I understand, it is much easier to edit screens and very customizable.

Just a few updates for you to consider.


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## jlarson86 (Feb 19, 2017)

im pretty new to the CNC world also (bought my smartshop from Laguna tools about 10 months ago) and have had no real hands on training ive taught myself everything by reading and watching youtube this is my first forum to join, but anyway my machine came with Vcarve pro and i love it they seam to have great support so far and its been real easy to learn all the basics


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

For control software I've become a big fan of LinuxCNC running on a Linux PC. For some reason they've figured out how to get instant multi-key keyboard response while Windows still can't do that. Jogging using LinuxCNC on my Probotix Meteor is a delight compared to jogging using the CNC shark controller software on a Windows PC. 

I like what Vectric produces for CAD/CAM software as it clearly evolved from a tool path creation point of view before it was a CAD program. While Rhino>RhinoCAM and Autodesk products are great CAD programs, they tend to be unnecessarily complex if your end goal for the files created is CNC work. 

JMHO.
4D


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## fmartinez (Jul 30, 2017)

Hey Don, I would like to contact you about an image you've done in vcarve. May have your contact number and/or email? It's the Marine EGA file.

Thanks
Frankie
[email protected]


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

Newcomers to the cnc world should not be discouraged with the software cost involved. About 10 years or so ago I followed a thread of someone building a cnc from scratch (I think it was on this forum) and I build a small cnc out of MDF. I bought the Mach3 software (about $170 at the time), printed the manual and read it all and got the cnc working. Mach3 also included for free the LazyCam software (including the manual) which is a basic CAD/CAM and enough to get you going to design basic shapes / letters and pockets to learn. 

Yes it takes a lot of reading to learn cnc but the rewards are immense and as it’s mentioned here there are some very good free CAD/CAM software now which will enable you to make any drawing you want but you must spend the time to read and learn.

Now I use Mastercam from a friend who works in a machine shop and he allowed me to have access to that software. I printed the manual (about 600 pages) which I read it and although I’m still not a pro I can do what I want with Mastercam and when I bring it home I can use my cnc to do the cutting. The results are amazing and the time I spent reading is forgotten.


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## Kitwn (Oct 14, 2017)

*CamBam + LinuxCNC*

Speaking as a hobyist on a budget I can recommend the combination of CamBam and LinuxCNC. The latter is free and I run it on an old PC I bought second hand for $20. I had no problem setting it up and everything just works.
A recent add-on which I'm very pleased with is the addition of a 'pendant' consiting of a USB version of an old Nintendo game controller ($8) plus 'antimicro' software. The software maps the game controller keys to your choice of keyboard keys. LinuxCNC has everything you could want on the keyboard so this is simple.

For drawing and G-code generation CamBam is excelent. Once you buy a licence (under $200) you get free upgrades for life. It is a 2D drawing package, easy to learn, and has an excelent extension forum at the link below with lots of used-designed plugins including a very good V-Carve option. I recommend the latest v1.0 release of CamBam in the downloads page not the 0.9 stable release. This is a great program for quickly drawing up the majority of pieces you may want to cut and can import DXF files and trace round images.

atelier-des-fougeres.fr/Cambam/Aide/Plugins/Vengrave_doc_EN.html

I know a coulpe of people over at the Timescapes.org forum who have migrated from CamBam to Fusion360 and are happy with the results. It's more capable, has more extensive toolpath options but is harder to learn if you're not already familliar with CAD drawing.

Kit


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

I am a 71-year-old retired computer engineer who has made woodworking his primary hobby and teaching it to Wounded Warriors here in San Diego. 

I have to confess that CAD/CAM software totally has me confused. I'm sure that I am not the only one out there with this problem. What we novices need is a simple block flow presentation on the different types of software and what they do and interact with each other. Additionally, a chart classifying them, listing the features, prices, and referencing any reviews & comparisons. Then someone needs to keep this data up to date.

You experienced CNC guys should look at this like it was a classroom, we, the inexperienced, are your students, and you, the experienced, are our teachers. Please teach us. We want to learn.

Gary Salisbury
San Diego, CA

https://www.pinterest.com/garydsalisbury/


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Hi Gary, and welcome to the CNC skill acquisition quest. 

CAD: Drawing/Drafting. Where you draw up the shapes you want to cut out of some material
CAM: Optimizing/finalizing a drawing to then make toolpaths for the project.
Controller: The program and electronics that feeds your toolpaths to the CNC machine. 

I teach furniture design to Architecture college students. These kids have the advantage that they've all been using assorted CAD programs since they were freshmen. The CAD (drawing/drafting) half of CAD/CAM is already within their grasp, and learning the basics of CAM (optimizing their drawing to be cut out, then creating the needed toolpaths) is about 2 weeks of exposure and practice. That doesn't mean they are experts, but they can draw up a thing they want, assign toolpaths to it, and get it cut out using our CNCs. 

I have experience with and teach VCarve Pro and Aspire from Vectric. Most of Vectrics products are both CAD and CAM, meaning you don't need to know another CAD program to use their tool path creation features. They also have a decent render engine that will show you the result of the toolpaths you have created in what looks like your piece of wood. All before you've even booted up a CNC. Sending your toolpaths to a CNC is much like printing a file from a word processor. Your CNC will have a "Post Processor" (printer driver) and you'll end up with a text file composed of g-code in a format your CNC control software will understand. 

Vectric has tutorial videos that cover everything from the most basic of CAD to the most complicated of CAM. The CNC you end up with will use control software in some form. Mach3/4, LinuxCNC, other free or web based, or proprietary control software generally comes with each CNC, but is one more thing you'll need to learn. 

I picked it all up as "naturally" as possible, with 2 design degrees and 4 decades of teaching design and woodworking behind me. The language wasn't foreign. I am very familiar with what can be done using a router. I didn't master CNCing instantly though, and my students don't either. That comes with experience, broken bits, and wasted wood. 

This and other forums are great sources of help, and no one seems to mind the basic simple questions. We've all gone through it. 

My students might use Rhino/AutoCAD/Sketchup/Revit/etc. (CAD) then RhinoCAM (CAM) or Aspire (CAD and CAM) before using LinuxCNC (Control) or proprietary controllers to feed their G-code to our CNCs.

Their first lesson is this: We draw what looks like lines in CAM, but they are really Vectors with position and direction and a start point. We typically send the spinning router bit to their start point then plunge in a specified depth to then travel down the line toward its end. Everything a CNC does is fed directly or indirectly by vectors you've drawn. Making toolpaths from your lines is where more specific instructions can be programmed in, such as to travel left of or right of or centered down that vector. 

Now you've barely scratched the surface. Good luck on your adventure!

4D


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Gary Salisbury said:


> You experienced CNC guys should look at this like it was a classroom, we, the inexperienced, are your students, and you, the experienced, are our teachers. Please teach us. We want to learn


The trouble is not a lack of information, there is a tremendous amount of good info around. The trouble is that it is scattered in a dozens of forums in hundreds of posts mixed in with some less than useful dreck. It takes experience to separate the good and useful from the rest, and a LOT of effort to present it in a cohesive, structured way. 

Its a bit early yet, but know that someone has been working on this problem for some time .... hoping to have something for those in your position by the end of this year. CncRouterSchool.com

Richard


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

Thank you, 4D. Where are you from? I would love to attend some formal education on this but know of none in the San Diego, CA area.


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

Yes, Balloon Engineer. You are correct about that. It needs organization and structure then to be presented easily.


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## Gundawg (Oct 13, 2017)

I can't say it is the best because it is what I learned to use but I like the Vectric stuff I started with Vcarve and then upgraded to Aspire. For me Aspire wasn't necessary I don't really use the 3D stuff very often I mostly make 2D & 2.5D parts. I can't say it is better than something else but I find it fairly easy to learn and I like that they have a lot of tutorials.

Mike


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

I didn't realize at first how old this thread was. In one of the early posts, someone mentioned using AutoCad or SolidWorks. I am curious if anyone would spend that much for that level of CAD software if they didn't have a commercial business ? I know from my time doing IT work in a steel fab shop that neither is a "affordable" package unless you are using it to make some serious coin.


Thanks....Gary


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

gjackson52 said:


> In one of the early posts, someone mentioned using AutoCad or SolidWorks. I am curious if anyone would spend that much for that level of CAD software if they didn't have a commercial business ?


Most of the Autodesk software is available free for students (get them hooked!). They also had a program for a while that anyone who was out of work or recently separated veterans could get most Autodesk programs free for three years (you weren’t supposed to use it commercially). It’s possible that some of the posters had access through this type of program. 

I am always surprised at the number of people who spend $2000 for Aspire while not using any of the capabilities it has above what is offered by VCarve or even cheaper software. It is a great program, but why buy it if you don’t need its features? I keep seeing it recommended in all the beginners posts. Maybe I’m just too much of a cheapskate. 

Richard


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Richard,

The one downside of Aspire is earlier versions won't open files made by later versions, but later versions open earlier version files. I certainly don't use Aspire's capabilities to even 5%. Most of it is above this old retired trucker's head, but ...................... there are some close relationships on this forum and other places that will share files, and in my case, I have a pro (MEBCWD) make a lot of my files. Most of the advanced people keep upgrading to the latest version and I have to also just to keep up. And, the "free" projects are always done in the latest version. And Aspire won't open Vcarve files and vice versa. In the cases where I needed it, having it was nice. The software is as important, if not more so, than the machine. Our opinions are mostly what fits our own personal situations. You asked.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Like I said, Aspire is a great program. Its simplicity belies its power. And I recognize that Vectric provides great training and tutorials, probably the best in the business. I know quite a few users, including a couple from my local CNC user group that went to the Vegas training last week. I have no objections to those who are in a position to afford to use it. Most, like you, are happy with their purchase, and I am glad it works for y’all, I really enjoy seeing the creativity in some of the projects people on this forum create using it. 

My only message is that you don’t need it to design and create projects for the router, there are alternatives. Aspire is purpose built for CNC routing, so it is probably one of the easiest ways to go, but there are alternatives. :smile: 
I don’t want the cost of Aspire to be a deterrent to those wanting to get started with CNC routing. For many, that money is better spent upgrading to a better machine. 

Richard


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have played around a little bit with Fusion360. I plan on using that once I get my machine up and running. It is from Autodesk, and it is free for hobbyist and small business that do under $100k in revenue.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

For learning Fusion 360 I highly recommend the YouTube videos by Lars Christensen. I’ve used lots of different CAD software over the years. Every CAD program has its its own idiosyncrasies, and Lars was able to explain the Fusion 360 workflow in a way that helped me understand it better than I could figure out on my own.


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

Not to get off subject but as part of this new learning process, I found a good document called Introduction to CNC by Vectric Software. It is a detailed beginners guide to the basics of CNC technology, process workflow, and terminology. Perhaps it will help someone else in the same newby shoes as I....

http://www.vectric.com/media/docs/support/intro-to-cnc/Intro-To-CNC-Vectric2013.pdf


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## Gary Salisbury (Apr 11, 2014)

*Difference between 2D and 2.5D*



Gundawg said:


> I can't say it is the best because it is what I learned to use but I like the Vectric stuff I started with Vcarve and then upgraded to Aspire. For me Aspire wasn't necessary I don't really use the 3D stuff very often I mostly make 2D & 2.5D parts. I can't say it is better than something else but I find it fairly easy to learn and I like that they have a lot of tutorials.
> 
> Mike


Can someone explain the difference between 2D and 2.5D? I understand what 2D and 3D are but 2.5D? It must be some knid of compromise to make 2D look a little more three dimensional. Anyone?


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Gary Salisbury said:


> Can someone explain the difference between 2D and 2.5D? I understand what 2D and 3D are but 2.5D? It must be some knid of compromise to make 2D look a little more three dimensional. Anyone?


2D is simply cutting out shapes. Perhaps you have seen some of the flat packed furniture designs cut from plywood. Those would generally be considered 2D. You can think of shapes that could be cut out with a bandsaw or scrollsaw (you can have interior cutouts).

2.5D would add some pockets of constant depth - perhaps you have seen some photos of a solid body guitar cut out on a CNC with the pockets for the electronics. These could perhaps be thought of as shapes that could be cut out with a traditional router - think of the pattern routed bowls many make.

Of course 3D is something where there are are surfaces that are not parallel to the top or bottom of the stock. Essentially all 3 axis are moving simultaneously. 

Generally, all CNC routers can make 2D, 2.5D or 3D designs, since all 3 axis can move independently and simultaneously. The difference is actually found in capability of the software used to create the toolpaths. Software such as ArtCAM Free, Vectric Cut2D, and the SketchUp plugin SketchUcam can generally only produce 2D or 2.5D toolpaths. Vectric V-carve can create both 2.5D and 3D toolpaths, but really does not have a full set of 3D modeling tools. The most advanced software, such as Autodesk ArtCAM, Fusion 360 and Vectric Aspire can both model and toolpaths full 3D shapes. Of course there are many other programs in each of these categories.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

2D lets you move any X/Y direction but the bit is limited to plunging and lifting at the beginning and end of a toolpath or step down between depth passes.
2.5 tool paths let the Z axis change depth dynamically during a 2D toolpath. The fluting tool path is one example. VCarving with a V-bit is another. Although using software with no 3D toolpaths available you can use the fluting toolpath and an array of closely spaced lines to "simulate" what would normally be considered a 3D cut. You can also simulate a 3D toolpath using 2D toolpaths and some very tedious layout strategies.


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## Kitwn (Oct 14, 2017)

Gary,
The key restriction of 2.5D compared to 3D is the inability of the tool in a 3-axis machine to make undercuts. For that you need the ability to tilt the router to get the tool in from the sides. It is possible to cut very detailed reliefs however, the Aztec clock you have been commenting on in another thread being a splendid example of 2.5D work.

Kit


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

In the context of CNC I have to disagree with your definition of 2.5D verse 3D. 

Undercuts are made using a 5th axis machine(some could argue a 4th axis does a type of undercut in a way) and they create fantastic 3D parts, but a bas relief is still a 3D object. And a bas relief is made using machines that right or wrong the industry market as fully capable 3D machines albeit 3axis 3D machines as opposed to 5axis 3D machines.

I believe what we are really talking about here is the difference between 2.5 and 3D capable CNC machines and software, not really what defines a 3D object. In the real world(as opposed to a computer image) even a flat sheet of paper I hold in my hand is 3D and so is a bas relief with no undercut, everything is 3D to a human. 

Flashcut website describes the difference between 2.5D and 3D in eh context of CNC pretty well.

2.5D - Working in two and a half dimensions (2.5D) means you are cutting a part that has multiple flat features at varying depths. During a 2.5D cutting process, the Z axis positions itself to a depth where the X and Y axes interpolate to cut a feature. The Z axis then retracts so the X and Y axes can move to the start point of the next feature, which may be cut at a different Z depth than the last feature. Most simple CAM programs deal with 2.5D parts.

3D - Working in three dimensions (3D) means that you have the ability to *control at least three axes simultaneously.* 3D contouring can then be accomplished by creating curves that use all three axes at once, like in a helical cut. You will most often need a full CAM program to create g-code files capable of performing 3D contouring.

I believe in terms of CNC to "control at least three axes simultaneously" is probably the main difference between 2.5 and 3D.


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## 4DThinker (Feb 16, 2014)

Where the Z axis doesn't dynamically change depth during a pocket or profile tool path is a 2D cut. Even if during part of a cut it moves down or up to cut another flat pocket/profile but just at a different flat depth. Usually just end mills are used. 

Where the Z axis moves dynamically during a linear toolpath is what vectric considers to be 2.5D. Their fluting and V-carve toolpaths are 2.5D. You might use a V-bit, ball end bit, or an end mill. 

In a 3D cut a web or array or mesh of 2.5D lines are combined to carve out a 3D object, usually with just the tangent edge of a ball nosed bit. 

A 4D cut looks different depending on when you look at it.


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## Kitwn (Oct 14, 2017)

I've just paid more attention to the CamBam web page and it describes a conventional pocket or profile cut (which moves the Z axis THEN moves X & Y with Z fixed) as 2.5D but cutting out a relief with all 3 axes moving at once as a '3D profile'. Sorry to confuse you but at least the question has helped improve my own understanding.

So how do we distinguish the kind of fully 3D shape you can cut out with a 7-axis machine like this one? Try not to fall in love with it Gary ;-)






Kit


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## anuooraag (Mar 1, 2018)

aldepoalo said:


> There are many solutions that are low cost for cnc routing. The big thing is knowing what you want to do. Cut2 and Cut 3 V carve pro and Aspire offer great wood working tools for routing and craving. These systems offer an upgrade path and either will be included with your machine sale or would cost your $150 to start and up to $1500 or so on the top end.
> 
> Now I do work for BobCAD and feel our solutions is very good too. It's CAD CAM all in one system. Now it is more mechanical in design but with the ART package it give you tool to create awesome parts.
> 
> ...


hey guys,

I have 750 gigabyte cnc router designing data for mdf acrylic 3d carving , 3d emboss, 2d and many concept for decors if any want to buy you can contact me on with a PM


Regards
Anurag


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Interesting survey on CAD software at CNC Cookbook - 

CNC Cookbook 2017 CAD Survey

David


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

*Carveco has updated info about their ArtCAM replacement*

Carveco has updated their website and posted info about their release of the replacement for ArtCAM software, being released on March 28, 2019. Will include ArtCAM file compatibility. 

https://carveco.com/carveco-software/3d-design-tools/

On Facebook they had previously announced there would be special introductory pricing.


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## SteveMI (May 29, 2011)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Carveco has updated their website and posted info about their release of the replacement for ArtCAM software, being released on March 28, 2019. Will include ArtCAM file compatibility.


Is there any idea on the price range when it gets released? I found nothing on the website.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Steve,

End of their page click on "purchasing information." It's just a countdown clock til the end of the month when the new version is released.


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

SteveMI said:


> Is there any idea on the price range when it gets released? I found nothing on the website.



I'd expect it to be somewhere between $2000-$4000.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Carveco now available, £1200 (~$1600) Initial price. Perpetual license, 1 year support and upgrades. Note that this is equivalent to ArtCAM Premium, that Autodesk was renting for $3000 per year. 

Carveco.com


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Carveco now available, £1200 (~$1600) Initial price. Perpetual license, 1 year support and upgrades. Note that this is equivalent to ArtCAM Premium, that Autodesk was renting for $3000 per year.
> 
> Carveco.com


 @BalloonEngineer

Know off hand how long the intro price is on for?


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

No, I have no inside info on that.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Carveco has publicly posted this on their Facebook page, so I feel I can publicly post this now, if you go to 

https://carveco.com/welcome-back

you can obtain it for $1300 instead of $1600. They have also announced that this price will end May 31, 2019. If you have been on the fence, you may want to move soon. No free demo, but 30 days money back if you do not like it.

This is a Perpetual license (does not expire). One year of upgrades and support. I have no idea if the price will go back to the "introductory" $1600 price, or even higher.


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## UglySign (Nov 17, 2015)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Carveco has publicly posted this on their Facebook page, so I feel I can publicly post this now, if you go to
> 
> https://carveco.com/welcome-back
> 
> ...



Scrape up your sheckles, time is running out.


On the other hand you get 12 months maintenance along with it.


Jinkies! I asked them about when it expires:


"_The maintenance is optional, and we hope that we’ll impress you with our support and new product releases, with the cost being $1600 USD per annum._"


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Hope those interested bought Carveco at the discount price. New price is $7,710!


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Hope those interested bought at the discount price. New price is $7,710!


WOW!!! Glad we bought when we did! :surprise:

David


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

UglySign said:


> "_The maintenance is optional, and we hope that we’ll impress you with our support and new product releases, with the cost being $1600 USD per annum._"


Does this mean $1600 yearly just to keep it up???

Vectric's upgrades are $400


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

BalloonEngineer said:


> Hope those interested bought Carveco at the discount price. New price is $7,710!


I think it just went up again . That’s over $14,000 Canadian. Going to be tough for the little guy.
Heck, that’s the price of a complete plug and and play Pro4896


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

It's $7,710 US, Rick, and $10,432 Canadian. Not that that helps any... 

David


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

difalkner said:


> It's $7,710 US, Rick, and $10,432 Canadian. Not that that helps any...
> 
> David


Yes ,that would take a lot of sales to pay it off . I think it’s aimed at the bigger corporations ?


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

It's basically the same price ArtCAM Pro was before Autodesk bought it and made it subscription.

For those who bought it, would you have bought it had you'd known it would be $1600 to upgrade?
And if you don't upgrade for more than a year, will they charge even more to upgrade?

It's a little shady that they didn't tell people what the actual price would be when they had the introductory offer.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

Vectric Vcarve Pro --- $800. Upgrade later when the time is right.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

ger21 said:


> It's basically the same price ArtCAM Pro was before Autodesk bought it and made it subscription.
> 
> For those who bought it, would you have bought it had you'd known it would be $1600 to upgrade?
> And if you don't upgrade for more than a year, will they charge even more to upgrade?
> ...


I used CorelDraw 8 from 1997 until I upgraded to CorelDraw X8 in 2016, so unless Carveco quits working I'll probably do the same thing and use this first Carveco version for a long, long time. It would take some significant event or job that requires an upgrade for me to do so.

David


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Wow. That's an investment!

I thought Aspire was expensive, I probably could have got by with Vcarve Pro, but if you need the model features, they come in handy. Hopefully V10 is a year or two further down the road.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I figure Aspire 10 will be released in Denver this October at the conference.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Well, those of us who bought at $1300 get the upgrades and support for a year, they’ve already put a couple minor fix ones out, expect they’ll have a few more before the year is out. The license is perpetual, and I imagine the support forums will continue to be available, just won’t be able to put in a support ticket for personalized support. As David said, we may just continue using this version for quite a while. Probably take quite a while to learn all the present functionality. 

Who knows where annual upgrade pricing will end up. When ArtCAM 2018 was under AutoDesk, at $360 per year, they had a one day sale and I got it for $99. That license turned into a perpetual one when they took it off market. 

They are obviously aware of their competition and their pricing, so we’ll see how things play out. What I have now was cheaper than Aspire, and appears to have all that capability and then some (my $99 version of ArtCAM had equivalent 3d modeling functions, Carveco has more). Just hoping they get more tutorials and other learning materials published. 

Right now I expect their initial target was converting existing ArtCAM owners, haven’t really gone after new customers. Pricing suggests they are after the commercial/professional market, not the hobbyists, but I imagine as they settle in, they may decide to go after that (now) larger group. While there has always been a few hobbyists, with creative but comparatively crude home built machines, I think the explosion in high quality machine electronics at vastly lower prices, easy availability of low cost linear rails, lower cost kit machines, and hobbyists with the means to buy lower end (<$30k) commercial machines has created a much larger market than existed 10 years ago. Vectric has been actively going after that segment, and doing a good job. I think it will be tempting to Carveco as well, if and when they want to grow their base, and they will need to adjust pricing to be competitive. The high price now may be to create a greater perceived value at some point in the future.


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## New3018 (Feb 21, 2020)

After reading many of these replies on "Cheap" software... Is there actually a cheap (free!) software out there for us poor people? I bought a cheap Chinese cnc router for under $300 and that included a laser attachment, I can't see spending ten times that much for software to run it. I just need something to learn and tinker with, not something that can make a space shuttle. I'm currently using Sketchup for my 3D printer so I have an idea of how to design in 3D, I just need something to control a simple router. As these cheap routers have become more common I'm sure there are more people looking for a way to run them.


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## breezy (Nov 4, 2011)

Try Fusion 360 it's CAD & CAM in one and it's free for hobbyists.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

New3018 said:


> After reading many of these replies on "Cheap" software... Is there actually a cheap (free!) software out there for us poor people? I bought a cheap Chinese cnc router for under $300 and that included a laser attachment, I can't see spending ten times that much for software to run it. I just need something to learn and tinker with, not something that can make a space shuttle. I'm currently using Sketchup for my 3D printer so I have an idea of how to design in 3D, I just need something to control a simple router. As these cheap routers have become more common I'm sure there are more people looking for a way to run them.


Welcome to the forum! Add your first name to your profile to clear the N/a in the side panel and so we'll know what to call you. Add your location, as well. Head on over to the introduction subforum and do a proper introduction for us.

Have you looked at FreeCAD? I remember looking at that prior to building our CNC. It's open source, I believe, and lots of users but that's about all I know on this software.

David


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

breezy said:


> Try Fusion 360 it's CAD & CAM in one and it's free for hobbyists.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Fusion 360 is now only free if you make less than $1,000 annually from your craft (hobby). Until about October 2019 it was free if you made less than $100k but that all changed. Now it's subscription based.

David


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

New3018 said:


> After reading many of these replies on "Cheap" software... Is there actually a cheap (free!) software out there for us poor people? I bought a cheap Chinese cnc router for under $300 and that included a laser attachment, I can't see spending ten times that much for software to run it. I just need something to learn and tinker with, not something that can make a space shuttle. I'm currently using Sketchup for my 3D printer so I have an idea of how to design in 3D, I just need something to control a simple router. As these cheap routers have become more common I'm sure there are more people looking for a way to run them.


I'm a "free" fan so here's what I have accumulated:

- Sketchup users can use sketchucam. It does work. However, it's got lots of quirks and the guy doing it isn't particularly into making it more friendly. Usable if you put up with the gotchas. You need to view the gcode it produces to make sure it's correct. Often times it isn't and needs fussing. I don't know how it works with the web based versions, I'm using V17.

- F-Engrave. excellent. does simple vcarving and engraving. Great for simple lettered signs. will take an image and v-carve it. even supports simple inlays. I've used this for a number of boxes I've done. You can see them here.

- Fushion 360. as others have said, it's pretty good. complex with a learning curve. though, knowing sketchup gets you fairly far. 

There are a number of CAM products out there that you can use with DXFs and some other formats. This allows you to use any CAD package that can export DXFs. Though, you have to be careful to ensure that you are producing the right flavor of DXF for the CAM program you've chosen.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Easel and Carbide create are free. They are intended for use with Xcarves, and Carbide creates machines (Nomad and Shapeoko), but can be used with any machine. They only output code intended for GRBL, but can be used by other machines with a little tweaking. Since they have fixed presets for the machines intended for, cannot really output code for larger CNCs.

Carveco introduced a couple of cheaper versions of its software, Carbide Maker and Maker+. Maker is only $15/month or $90/year (perpetual licenses for both titles are also available ). Maker is fairly equivalent to VCarve Pro (no size limits, can import and toolpath an STL file, with a few 3d editing features as well). Maker+ has many of the features of Aspire (can create and edit 3D features). The subscription basis is a cheaper entry point. The monthly subscription is very flexible, can buy only when you want, no requirement to keep it up every month.


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## New3018 (Feb 21, 2020)

Thanks for all the replies. I'll start looking at the different suggestions and see if I can get one of them to work. I did see another post on here of someone that also got one of the cheap Chinese routers for Christmas and was asking questions. I'll have to go over to her thread and see how she's making out. Thanks again for all the replies.
Carl


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## kcortese12 (Nov 12, 2019)

Vcarve Pro does include CAM software called Vtransfer. When you download Vcarve Pro from your Vector account the set up has the option of installing Vtransfer. I use it to send tool paths to my CNC and it works fantastic.


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

Vtransfer is a sender program for GRBL based machines, similar to UGS, not CAM software. VCarve is the design/CAM software.


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## Joe Lyddon (Sep 11, 2004)

There is another great software program to design the project in 3D and prepare the G-Code, sliced file for the CNC controller.

It is called Fusion 360.

For hobby use it can be had FREE!

I have found the learning curve is Very Steep and hard to learn... BUT, once you Get It, it is a super and VERY powerful program.

I understand that recently they have added the Slicing capability to it which actually prepares the G-Code file that will control the CNC... along with the ability to prepare files for 3D Printing.

I have used it to prepare very simple things for 3D Printing, which I have gotten into & find it very exciting.

I am still learning Fusion 360... I have been able to design VERY SIMPLE things & get the programs for my 3D printer...

I am also in the process of building my OWN CNC system which I have gotten super help from Dave Gatton. He has designed a simple CNC device that is very Inexpensive, compared to the general field. Fusion 360 can now be used to design & prepare the G-code file FOR the CNC system.

This is all very exciting and CAN be done very inexpensively as compared to the general market... FYI, a CNC system can be built for about $1,300-$1,500... BUT, you have to pay extra for the CNC controller and design software... of which, some like Fusion 360, can be used for FREE!

I understand that Vectric's V-Carve Pro is the BEST software for designing and preparing the g-code files for the CNC system.

Mach-3 is the most popular software to use the G-code files to control the CNC machine.

Additional help can be obtained from Dave Gatton which has weekly youtube / facebook online meetings for discussing CNC. A huge help providing a very good education.

Go to YouTube and search for Dave Gatton... you will find him!
... he has white hair...

Hope this helps...


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Joe Lyddon said:


> There is another great software program to design the project in 3D and prepare the G-Code, sliced file for the CNC controller.
> 
> It is called Fusion 360.
> 
> For hobby use it can be had FREE!


We covered Fusion 360 in several posts in this thread, Joe. There's a caveat to the 'free' part, too. So I'll quote myself from a few posts above - 



difalkner said:


> Fusion 360 is now only free if you make less than $1,000 annually from your craft (hobby). Until about October 2019 it was free if you made less than $100k but that all changed. Now it's subscription based.
> 
> David


It's great software and the learning curve can be steep but some folks just 'get it' and it clicks right off the bat. Just like Vectric or Carveco or FreeCAD, etc., some take to it like a duck to water and some have a steep learning curve.

David


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

By the way, Joe, there is a very active Facebook group for F360. Lots of helpful contributors - no question goes unanswered for more than a few minutes it seems. Often there will be multiple approaches to solving a problem. I've learned a ton just by watching the traffic on it.


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

And the Fusion 360 forum on the Autodesk site is a very active one, lots of good assistance. Many from the F360 team respond to questions, as well.

David


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## NorhS85 (May 13, 2020)

*True*

Good answer :smile:


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## selwynadelson (Jan 1, 2012)

I recently bought a Shapeoko 3XL machine which recommends Carbide Create as its 2Ddrawing program and Carbide Motion as its machine operating program. Both can be downloaded and used for free from the net. I found both programs to be fairly easily learned by a newcomer to CNC which I certainly am. However, now that I am becoming slightly more adventurous with my use of the machine I find that these programs have their limitations and I would like to move on to something which offers greater facilities for drawing more complicated projects and the machine operating software is very inflexible and has some serious limitations. I think that both programs are excellent for a beginner to learn on and become more familiar with the concepts of CNC machining. I would now like to upgrade to something better but find that most of the better-known programs cost a lot of money which is in short supply for a hobbyist like me. Does anyone have any recommendations for free or low priced software to try?


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## BalloonEngineer (Mar 27, 2009)

AutoDesk is changing the free hobbyist license terms.

https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/changes-to-fusion-360-for-personal-use/

Basically they are cutting down how many “active” files you can have, reducing the number of file import/export formats, number of “drawings” and CAM to eliminate tool changing. They do say they are committed to maintaining a free tier. Based on past experience with AutoDesk, they will eventually do away with enough functionality to drive people to a paid option.


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## Hover (Nov 13, 2019)

I would like to install the Tesseract software


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## selwynadelson (Jan 1, 2012)

I purchased a Shapeoko 3XL machine which came bundled with Carbide Create ( 2D drawing program) and Carbide Motion (machine operation), I found them to be easy to use although both of them have their limitations. Lately, I have upgraded the design side to Vectric Desktop and have found that it will do everything I want it to do including calculation of toolpaths for 3D modeling. It will not however allow you to design 3D models - for that you have to upgrade to Vectric Aspire which is quite expensive. Learning to use Vectric Desktop is not that difficult and it is made even easier by watching the youtube videos put out by Mark Lindsay - there is a whole series of them for beginners. His style of teaching is excellent - try them - you'll see.


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

Welcome to the forum. I love Aspire but it is not cheep


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## rjunique (Jul 21, 2012)

wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?


You can also try Carbide Create with Carbide Motion. For a limited time you can get a 1 year license for Carbide Create Pro.


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## rjunique (Jul 21, 2012)

Nosleda said:


> I purchased a Shapeoko 3XL machine which came bundled with Carbide Create ( 2D drawing program) and Carbide Motion (machine operation), I found them to be easy to use although both of them have their limitations. Lately, I have upgraded the design side to Vectric Desktop and have found that it will do everything I want it to do including calculation of toolpaths for 3D modeling. It will not however allow you to design 3D models - for that you have to upgrade to Vectric Aspire which is quite expensive. Learning to use Vectric Desktop is not that difficult and it is made even easier by watching the youtube videos put out by Mark Lindsay - there is a whole series of them for beginners. His style of teaching is excellent - try them - you'll see.


The Carbide Create Pro does allow you to create 3D designs and tool paths.


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## rjunique (Jul 21, 2012)

rjunique said:


> The Carbide Create Pro does allow you to create 3D designs and tool paths.


And it is free for 1 year.


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## FatTrees=WideBoards (Dec 2, 2020)

wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?


HELLO
I'm also wanting info on CNC software, but on the CAD side I can offer great advice.
Check out Visual CAD. It's designers pride themselves in making it user-friendly for the most part. Meanwhile, they have excellent support based in Seattle, WA USA.

*Easy to Learn & Use* - an intuitive interface has you drawing productively in a very short time.
Enjoy. Any updates on the CNC software side?

George


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## difalkner (Jan 3, 2012)

Welcome to the forum, George! Do you have any affiliation with Visual CAD?

David


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Welcome to the Router Forums George.
What CNC machine are you wanting CNC software for? It would depend on the hardware you have to what you can use to control the machine.


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## FatTrees=WideBoards (Dec 2, 2020)

difalkner said:


> Welcome to the forum, George! Do you have any affiliation with Visual CAD?
> 
> David


I happen to know the original designers from back in the early 90's. They migrated from designing Generic CADD to designing Visual CAD. After I posted about it, I realized that most people probably want 3D, so Visual CAD may not be the best choice as it is 2D.


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## FatTrees=WideBoards (Dec 2, 2020)

MEBCWD said:


> Welcome to the Router Forums George.
> What CNC machine are you wanting CNC software for? It would depend on the hardware you have to what you can use to control the machine.


I have no knowledge of the manufacturers in the CNC industry, or which has reliable machines. I want to start with a router for wood projects, but in a year or two I might want a machine capable of cutting metal up to 16 gauge (plasma?)
Without assistance, I would likely lean towards a name brand like Grizzly because I expect the machine will work well. OF course flexibility is important, and I don't want to either overpay or miss out on really good tech for either the same or less money.


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## JohnStinson (Dec 8, 2020)

What is the best free CNC software?


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## ger21 (Feb 10, 2019)

JohnStinson said:


> What is the best free CNC software?


Are you asking about design software? CAM software? Control software? CNC covers a range of programs, that each do different things.


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## JohnStinson (Dec 8, 2020)

ger21 said:


> Are you asking about design software? CAM software? Control software? CNC covers a range of programs, that each do different things.


My question is this ... I built a small C.N.C. machine to mill parts and circuit boards ,what would be the best software to use that's free.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Nosleda


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @FatTrees=WideBoards


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @JohnStinson


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## Hover (Nov 13, 2019)

I would now like to upgrade to something better


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## sealbeams (Jan 21, 2021)

gary penwright said:


> does anyone have step by step instructions for v carve


Check out Mark Lindsay on YouTube. He has a series called cnc for the absolute bginners. They are good.


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## sealbeams (Jan 21, 2021)

old55 said:


> Welcome to the forum @JohnStinson


Wow! I was expecting something from across town. Not across the world.


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

We are pretty well all over the place on this forum.


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## Pro4824 (Oct 17, 2015)

Vectric Aspire 10.5 
Mach3
👍


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## MarkJonesRanger (Aug 14, 2020)

I enjoy using Vcarve Pro. It has handled all I need it to do. It's logical and easy to use. Ton's of videos on the web on how to do things.


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## Ryan_Cao (Aug 19, 2021)

The more popular ones are Predator CNC Editor, EnRoute, Fusion 360, RhinoCAM and so on. It's hard to say which is the best. Just choose one according to your own needs.


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## kcortese12 (Nov 12, 2019)

gary penwright said:


> does anyone have step by step instructions for v carve


If you are learning Vectric software watch these videos for the absolute beginner.


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## RouterKing82 (Oct 15, 2021)

wood need 2 work said:


> what is the best cnc software I am a handyman and have built a wood shop now I want to buy a cnc router but don't know what software to buy looking at shark pro
> any advice?


I actually sell routers but I am a service engineer by trade. I have done many integrations with Mach3 and Mach4. They both work well. check out (link removed by moderator), and take a look at their CNC Routers. you won't find any built better for the money no matter where its made. I like Mach control systems because they are easy to use and you speak to someone you can understand if you do have questions. That goes with Rons CNC Service too.

Shane


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## David Cunningham (Oct 21, 2015)

I use Solidworks and Mastercam primarily for design, with a little Fusion 360 here and there. Most of my programming is done with Mastercam but I plan to try out Camworks soon. I use Mach3 running on XP or Win7 to control my routers.


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## gdonham1 (Oct 31, 2011)

CAD/CAM software that is best is a subjective issue. If you cut metal and/or manufacturing then Fusion 360 and high level and expensive programs are best. If you want to cut wood and small pieces (24"x24") there are many free and open source. All of the design software has a learning curve this pretty steep. If you have no CAD/CAM experience then go to youtube and look at the various tutorials and get your feet wet with free trials. Here is a list of good software for cutting wood.

a. Carbide Create and Carbide Motion. This is free software from Carbide3d that is free for download. These programs install locally on you PC and/or MAC. Most of the hobby level software also have a paid option for a higher level of function and is a paid add on. The Carbide Create has a Pro subscription. Carbide Motion sends your files to the machine.

b. Easel. This is free software from Inventables for the Xcarve machines. Easel is a cloud based software. Easel also has an additional level subscription that has more advanced features.

c. Vetric. Vetric software is a British software company that is aimed at woodworkers. There are multiple levels of the product such as Cut2d, Cut2d Pro, Vetric Desktop, Vetric Pro, Aspire.

Aspire: $1995

Vcarve Pro: $699

Vcarve Desktop: $349

Cut2d Pro: $449

Cut2d: $149

Cut3d: $299

PhotoVcarve: $149

All Vetric Software can be upgraded to the next level for the difference between the purchase price and the new product you want. The prices are for the current version and updates for that version. There is an upgrade fee to move to a new version.

d. Carveco. There are multiple levels of Carveco software, Maker, Maker+ and Carveco. This software is oriented to woodworking and costs as of March 12, 2022:

Maker: $15 Monthly, $180 Per year

Maker+: $50 Monthly, $600 Per Year, $1200 Perpetual License

Carveco: $250 Monthly, $3000 Per Year, $7995 Perpetual License

e. Fusion 360. This has a free version which is limited and is a high level CAD/CAM software. It is useful for woodworking but is a professional level application that is a parametric design tool and manufacturing tool. This is a cloud based application

$60 Monthly

$495 Yearly

$1410 3 Year

f. There are literally hunderds of CAD/CAM software packages but the above are some of the most popular for woodworking.


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## John Smith_ (Jan 10, 2020)

due to its age, this thread is closed and will be a Read Only topic.
if anyone needs to comment or ask questions pertaining to this topic, please start a new thread.


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