# Incra VS Jessem, your input needed!!



## joshua.easter (Oct 28, 2009)

Hello all, I would like to start off this thread with a big thanks to each and everyone who has taken the time to post any amount of valuable information for all of us new guys. With that said my question for all of you: 

I am currently in the process of building a new free standing router table, which will hold a PC 7518. After much research I am torn between two router fences; the first system I am considering is the Incra LS Super System. The second system is the Jessem Master-R-Fence with the Mite-R-Slide attachment. If am correct Incra is engineered and built here in the USA while Jessem is built in Canada, which for me is fantastic. I have heard nothing but rave reviews on any and all Jessem products, but I can not same the same for Incra. I am not sure if these negative reviews were operator error but from that I can tell Incra makes a stout system. As you all are wondering what will be the sole purpose for my router table, for that will be a determining factor in which product I should purchase. I currently use my router table for cabinetry (raised panel doors, drawer fronts and edge beading), furniture, in-sets, mantels, different style moldings and pretty much anything that has to do with remodeling. I think both units are great but I would like to have your pro's & con's input for both systems. I have never physically used either one of these units, I am sure some of you own or have used either of the units in the past. Any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all your knowledge and time on the is matter.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

joshua.easter said:


> Hello all, I would like to start off this thread with a big thanks to each and everyone who has taken the time to post any amount of valuable information for all of us new guys. With that said my question for all of you:
> 
> I am currently in the process of building a new free standing router table, which will hold a PC 7518. After much research I am torn between two router fences; the first system I am considering is the Incra LS Super System. The second system is the Jessem Master-R-Fence with the Mite-R-Slide attachment. If am correct Incra is engineered and built here in the USA while Jessem is built in Canada, which for me is fantastic. I have heard nothing but rave reviews on any and all Jessem products, but I can not same the same for Incra. I am not sure if these negative reviews were operator error but from that I can tell Incra makes a stout system. As you all are wondering what will be the sole purpose for my router table, for that will be a determining factor in which product I should purchase. I currently use my router table for cabinetry (raised panel doors, drawer fronts and edge beading), furniture, in-sets, mantels, different style moldings and pretty much anything that has to do with remodeling. I think both units are great but I would like to have your pro's & con's input for both systems. I have never physically used either one of these units, I am sure some of you own or have used either of the units in the past. Any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks again for all your knowledge and time on the is matter.


Hi Joshua, I just want to say "Welcome to the forum". 
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, that's all I can say as I have neither system. . I am sure there will be plenty of input forthcoming though.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

Welcome, Joshua! I would like to know where you have read negative feedback on the incra LS system. In my opinion only, the two best systems available are the Jointech and the Incra. These two systems are nearly twins and are both built in Texas (Incra, Irving and Jointech, Houston). I put Jointech first only because I own that system. Maybe what you read as negative towards the Incra is the learning curve as it is quite steep as far as doing the fancy joinery it is capable of doing.


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## joshua.easter (Oct 28, 2009)

I apprecaite all the info guys, keep it coming. From what I can gather Jointech is engineered and assembled in San Antonio, TX, also Jointech was established in 1986 and actually entered into the world of wood working via their doweling jig, not a router fence.....Incra was established in 1987 and entered the industry with a positioning jig which seems closer to their router fence than Jointech's doweling jig. This by no means states that Jointech does not make a great product, it just shows how they evolved into the wood working industry. For example; Yamaha started out making musical instruments and now they engineer some of the fastest motorcylce's on the street. Any who Jointech is cheaper but their system's are lacking in comparison to Incra's systems. If I had to chose between the Jointech and the Incra based on supporting documentation from their website and from reading reviews from individuals on forums such as these I would be more willing to spend my money on the Incra system, that is my opinion. It does seem to me that both companies do have great customer service, which is a plus in my book.....How is the dust collection on the Incra system? How is the addtion of accessories on the Incra system? (feather borads, directional rollers) Thanks again

Cheers,

Josh


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello Josh, and welcome to the RouterForums. Glad to have you here.


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

Just my $0.02...

I have not used the Jessem fence but I do have the Incra/Jessem Mast-R-Lift (with a PC7518), which is essentially Jessem's lift with Incra's rare-earth magnet ring retaining system. Personally I like the magnet system as it doesn't require a special tool to remove and replace although it does take a small screwdriver or brad to get the leverage to break the magnetic attraction. That said, I have nothing but good things to say about the Jessem lift and I have no reason to believe their fences are other than top-quality.

For fences, I purchased and installed the Incra LS25 with the Wonderfence this summer. 
I have used it for creating dovetail drawers and some trivets that requires some very precise, repeatable cuts in addition to miscellaneous work. I have not used it with raised panel bits to date.

Please run what I'm about to say through your own "filter", since I'm comparing the Incra fence I'm intimately knowledgeable with the Jessem color brochure pictures, so I may make a misstatement. 

What the Incra does an excellent job of providing is a highly repeatable fence system with very precise offsets from your choice of reference position. If you initially adjust the fence to where the edge (or center) of a bit is precisely adjusted to the edge of the fence, you can move the fence a precise offset from that position and then return it precisely where it is. Any error you make when initially aligning the bit with the fence will be precisely and repeatedly misaligned, and you will complain about the Incra.

For a particular bit, when blind cutting dovetails, there is one and only one height of bit where you will end up with the correct tightness of joint. This can initially be approximated but typically takes a couple of test cuts in scrap to get "perfect". If you do not do this, you will complain about the Incra.

In order for the pieces to go together with the edges precisely aligned (without requiring trimming), the piece must be precisely centered. There is a process for doing this that requires 1 piece of scrap the same width as your final material. If you do not do this... you get the picture.

Once you are set-up the Incra permits you to make many types and sizes of joints without requiring additional pieces.

For other fence use, it is a dream. Its easily adjustable in 1/32" increments with a toothed-offset mechanism and continuously adjustable using it's calibrated know in thousandths of an inch (much more than is needed for anything except centering, in my experience). It is also much stronger than it may appear. The Wonderfence also makes jointing easy because it has sliding wedges you can use to adjust the offset of the infeed from the outfeed. This is convenient.

The strength of this fence is also its disadvantage. It has a long depth-adjustment bar. This permits you to make cuts offset about 2 feet from the bit. During that time, however, the bar sticks the same 2 feet out the back of the mount. Thus it requires a couple of feet behind the table if you're making these deep cuts.

The Jessem (from the picture) doesn't appear to have the any form of toothed-base registration. Without it, you may not have the repeatability. This may not matter, for your use. T

One of out members (TwoSkies57) has installed the Jessem Mast-R-Slide to his Incra fence setup and loves it. You might consider messaging him for more info or look in his gallery, as he shows the who setup, including its construction. The Mast-R-Slide looks like one heckuva setup and I may one day add it to my Incra also, as it appears to be a superior mitering slide to the one provided by Incra.

Please don't take my comments as anything negative against the Mast-R-Fence. I've no doubt its one mighty fine setup, depending upon how you plan to use it. For raised panel bits and remodeling, the Jessem may even be superior.

In any event, both are top-quality and I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

You have a nice problem. I have a Jessem Rout R lift with a DW625 bolted in. For a fence, I use an Incra Ultra fence. I have adapted the RAJ and added taller sub fences to the Incra, for jointing and routing with a sacrificial insert for the bit. I also have a hollow fence that takes care of the dust extraction, and a guide pin set up that also has dust extraction. I have Incra's dvd, and watch their videos on their site. Knowledge, set up and a bit of practice are all that are needed for really good results. The only downside is the 18" or so of fence rail sticking out the back of the table for the fence.


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## RustyW (Dec 28, 2005)

joshua.easter said:


> After much research I am torn between two router fences; the first system I am considering is the Incra LS Super System. The second system is the Jessem Master-R-Fence with the Mite-R-Slide attachment.


Router table fences start at about 37 cents(short length of a straight 2x4) to well over $300 for the two you mentioned. I consider the later to be more of a joinery system than a fence. As far as a fence, there is nothing an Incra, Jessem, or Jointech can do that can't be done with a straight piece of scrap wood or plastic. Many new members of this forum seem to think that they need a lift and one of these fancy joinery systems to complete their projects. I can't really say anything bad about that, since I do own an Incra Ultra. My table was built large to accept the Incra, double as a workbench, and use a clamp on fence. I did build a fully adjustable fence with t-tracks that clamps to the top(both table and fence can be found in my gallery). The Incra, as shown in the manual, is attached to a piece of plywood that can also be clamped to the table. I made a special spot for it to store on the end of the table where it stays most of the time, although I have used it for joinery a few times.

Many router table operations require that the bit be partially buried in the fence. The basic Incra system has a very narrow opening for the bit. To get around this you must either, buy the super system(includes the wonder fence, and substantially adds to the cost ), buy the wonder fence separately, or build your own sub fences. 

As far as the quality and precision, it is everything it advertises itself to be. It is much stronger than it looks like it should be. Once you learn how to center your stock, the learning curve is not that bad. Just slide in the template for the joint you want and go for it. You will quickly find that many quality bits can be + or - 3 to 5 thousandths (even in sets made for the Incra). These bits will be great for everyday use, but are way to far off for the precision of the jig. I have had the best luck with Whiteside bits. Sorry to ramble on, but I hope this helps your decision.


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## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

If you use the Incra jig jointing system, you do need exact sized bits. I made a digital depth gauge to get accurate setups. I mounted my Incra on a piece of ply that bolts to the table, and is accurately repostionable.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I was going to buy a Incra at one time, so I took at hard look at it,,the tip off for me was the gold color, it looked like gold and about the same price as gold so I when with the black one for 50.oo bucks ..

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Mike Wingate said:


> If you use the Incra jig jointing system, you do need exact sized bits. I made a digital depth gauge to get accurate setups. I mounted my Incra on a piece of ply that bolts to the table, and is accurately repostionable.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> I was going to buy a Incra at one time, so I took at hard look at it,,the tip off for me was the gold color, it looked like gold and about the same price as gold so I when with the black one for 50.oo bucks ..
> 
> ======


I think that's why we all like you Bob. You're to the point. No punches held back.:yes4:
I have the Incra jig, as does Bob. I have no room, nor the budget for the big one.

Like Jim said, once the Incra is set properly, there is no way to make a mistake, unless it's your fault. You do need precise bits also.
It makes it possible to be much more accurate than you really need to be in wood working.

I have no experience with any Jessem equipment.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

John...

Best of both worlds...see pics

The incra is just crazy accurate. Period. Once you get the hang of it, its unbelieveable how you can set things up. Yes, there is no doubt its pricey.. in fact, some might say flatout expensive. BUT.. here's a few things to keep in mind. First the thing is, it is as solid as a rock. Unless you drop it, its manufactored to last a lifetime. Fit and finish on the Incra are excellent. I can't imagine wearing one of these things out. Even at extended lengths the unit is sound and secure. If you go with the wonderfence, you can't go wrong. Nothing really special about it except for the fact that it is made for the incra jigs. A really nice bolt on addition that is easily secured and removed. The DC feature was the selling point for me on the wonderfence and I have to say it works just fine. Not great, but more than adiquite for my purposes which are somewhere between recreational and serious hobbyist. Another feature of the wonderfence is the offset. Which I've actually not used yet. Yet, I'd have to say that were the need to arise, I can't see where it would be any less accurate than the fence itself. Easily positioned, repeatable and locks down securely. then back to zero without much fuss. 
The negatives are: weight. the dang thing is heavy!! Which if you plan on leaving it in place, actually is a plus. But my table serves multiple purposes so I take it on and off. The orginal fence was/is in my opinion something less that up to par with the rest of the system. Kinda like putting bias ply tires on a corvette. BUT with that having been said, there are thousands of these systems out there with that same fence producing some incredibly beautiful work. Actually I just got a bug up my butt about it and wanted to find some good Euro tires to put on. Hence the Mit-R-Slider. which works beautifully. Mounting the slider was simple, tracking is accurate to .002 the length of its travel and perfectly square to the fence itself. 
Jess em's master fence is a quality product no doubt. but certainly does not give you the versatility of the Incra...

just another couple cents worth...hope it helps


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## Gap_308 (May 2, 2009)

Love that incra setup Bill. In my head I want perfection, but my hands wont listen. That setup eliminates the whoops factor. My wallet likes the little black one too.


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank ya Scott!!!!

I'm pretty fond of it myself.. *S*..Still a work in progress, but she's gettin there...


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## joshua.easter (Oct 28, 2009)

All I can say is "WOW" what a great response and wealth of information from all of you, I can't say thank you enough. I will have to say TwoSkies your set up is the best of both worlds and thank you for the attached pictures, super helpful. With that said I will going in that same direction, with a Incra LS Super System with the Jessem Mite-R-Slide, very nice combination. I do have another simple question for you TwoSkies, is there a specific reason you went with the Incra router lift and not a Jessem router lift? Again thanks all of you for your input.

Cheers,

Josh


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## joshua.easter (Oct 28, 2009)

Also Bill did you build your router table top or did you purchase yours? I was comtemplating of taking two 3/4" birch plywood pieces, gluing them together and laminating the top and bottom for my router table top. Is this the most adequate and efficient way of constructing a bullet proof router top or do you have any other suggestions? 


Cheers,

Josh


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Josh..

thank you for your kind words... very much appreciated. To answer your questions.. lets see, the reason I went with the Incra lift is simply because of the thumb wheel. My thinking was if it worked as advertised it would be sweet. and it does, and it is *S*. For me, just being able to "tweek" the setting a few thousands(up to about 3/8") without having to play around is an excellant selling point. A simple allen key, and a light touch is all it takes. Holds fast, and thus far, has presented only one "glitch". When making an adjustment with the thumbwheel, there seems to be several thousandths worth of runout on the dial indiacator before the bit actually responds. 

As for the table top itself: I had a custom size top made to order through Woodpeckers. I owned another of their tops and was very impressed with it. (actually bought the first top, began designing my table, ended up going all out with the table so the orginal top is still in my shop unused...duh!!) The top is 1 3/8" thick, laminated on both sides and edge banded. the price was close to 200 for the top alone, but considering my time and cost of materials for a diy'r, this route worked fine for me. So, if you're looking to build your own top I'm probably not the guy to ask, however, there is a Ton of folks in here who have done just that, and done it extremely well. Go back and do some research in the threads. Just an huge amount of good info to me acquired. 

Here is a link to the thread up put up regarding my experience's putting together my rig..

http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/14019-soft-start-variable-speed-table-setup.html

feel free to ask away, myself as well as others are more than willing to help ya along with your project...


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## dddavid (Dec 26, 2009)

hi there,,,,,i too own the Incra system. The system is just short of being amazing. Who would have thought that such accuracy and repeatability could be aquired. However it has one negative as far as i see it. The learning curve especially in the setup takes time. I have found one main issue with the system. Firstly, if you use the large 92" rails good support is needed as well as very accurate set up. I have found that the unit is a little tricky when one wants to move the whole system back and forth on the rails. If you do not pull or push the unit in just the right way it tends to bind on the rails. Having said that i am not sure if others have found this similar problem. As a result of this, and having little experience at the beggining on the push stroke the unit got jammed and i scratched the side of one of my rails. You should have seen me cringe,,,,my brand new Incra,,,ouch that hurt. That tought me that Incra requires some finess in its handeling and so ive had to slow down, which is not a bad thing. I have spoken to Incra about this and they suggested to adjust the distance from the rail to the base clamp. Infact using as a spacer a business card. Still though i found some jamming occuring if im not being carefull. I have since then purchased new rails as i cant stand looking at that scratch but however have not placed them as i am worried that i will do the same thing again. In other words i have not yet solved that problem to my satisfaction. I think this issue might have something to do with the fact that the system upon set up requires very precise setup and so the learning curve can to some degree take the blame. I wonder though if either the base clamp being that it is not 90 degrees and as such does not sit flat on the side of the rail as well due to this there is only small contact between the rail and the clamp and that protion of the clamp being the edge is quite sharp. Maybe the rails being long and have some flexibility and as such as a result may not be perfectly parallel along its full length or possibly they are a little twisted or worped. 

In order to determine the resolution to this problem i will be trying out the following. i am going to get a stand alone router and so i will be removing my router from the right side of my table saw. That will take some weight off the rails on that side. As well i will be building a cabinet to go under the rails and so greater support will be aquired. At the same time that i put the new rails on i will be asking incra to replace the base clamps, just in case that was the problem. 

I am looking forward to solve this as i would like to get back to woodworking and so if anyone has any ideas please share. As well for those who have the Jointech version could you please share as far as ease of use and or its downfalls should it have any.

I read that someone joined the Jessem sliding bar to the incra system. I too was thinking to do this , just imagine not only having the reapeatability of incra but the beefy slider of Jessem. I would also love to incorporate Jessems lift mechanism as the dial for fine tuning is on the side and so a) there will be no interference in height adjustment if im using large stock that covers the fine adjustment on the top of the table and b) i could raise the bit into the wood inorder to make mortise and tennon joints.


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## Trimax (Apr 9, 2009)

oh great another add on for my ls system...looks like the wifes getting another tool for our Anniversary next month 
actually that looks pretty solid
I have the incra miter 1000se for my TS and I really like its Accuracy so maybe ill have to get a Dedicated miter for my LS
but anyway i also have the incra lift with magnetic rings very nice ... if theres any down side I would have to say the rings are made os steel and can tarnish


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Curt.. amen to the tarnish thing.... rather disappointing to say the least..


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