# Accuracy - general hints and tips ?



## steamingbill (Jan 13, 2013)

Hello,

Was wondering how other people approach making accurate cuts.

If I am making some sort of 3d object and I make relatively small errors in my cuts then by the time I have either "gone round a loop or a carcass" or gone around a few 90 degree bends in different orthogonal directions then I find that bits dont quite meet up with other bits and things arent quite square.

I try to be as accurate as possible in my cuts but I can mess something up - it seems to me there are 2 issues

1. How do I organise myself top make measurements and cuts as accurately as possible ?

2. Ways of correcting or even hiding things - for example - I noticed when I was owner builder of my house that I could hide a poorly cut plaster edge with the final architraves and skirting boards - ie the very last thing done is the most visible and needs to be perfect but the stuff underneath has some "slack"

Any good general tips or threads or web sites or hints for measuring and making accurate cuts when doing normal jobs in the shed ?

ie use of story sticks instead of rulers ?

empirical measuring rather than using a tape measure or ruler - ie take the thickness directly off a piece of timber rather than measure thickness (possible error) and then mark up using ruler ( another possible error) ?

use of a marking knife or gauge rather than a pencil ? How many people do this ?

use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc

I often think to myself things like "cut so that you can still see the edge of the pencil line"

How do the rest of you organise yourselves to be as accurate as possible ?

Regards

Bill


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I learned early on that pre-cutting every piece to a plan or drawing, then going on with assembly was (for me) a disaster. Cutting mortises to a measured dimension is fine but trying to measure and cut the tenon and expecting it to fit didn't work for me. But do the mortise then cut the tenon a little big and "sneaking" up on the correct dimension slowly seemed to work. Now when ever I can I use existing elements to ID where and what to cut. Basically I cut what I need to get started then use that (when I can) to mark and cut the rest. Over cutting and trimming to size with a pattern following bit; some folks will call it a cheat but it works in some cases.

When I need to be very accurate with something I can't afford to get wrong, like when I was making my acrylic sump filter insert for my aquarium, I'll make templates, get them right, and rough cut the final piece and trim to size again using a pattern following bit.

For correct angles I rely on accurate alignment, careful setups, and the best technique I can manage.

GCG


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

I mill to a mil.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Quillman said:


> I mill to a mil.


Yeah, but you're you and the rest of us mere mortals have to struggle for a 64th or a 32nd even. :jester:


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

steamingbill said:


> Hello,
> 
> Was wondering how other people approach making accurate cuts.
> 
> ...



Bill,
You are dealing with, what for me, is the fasinating part of woodworking. I'm new at it and am enjoying very much finding ways to accomplish what you are addressing in your thread on this forum. For me anyway, having accurate tools and knowing their limitatition and/or boundries is a must. I am not sure what you mean by the term 3d projects. My challenges have been primariy with cutting angles. The answer in doing the angles has been with the use of the Incra Miter Gauge, getting it exactly calibrated, and dealing with the flutter of the blade in the TS. This was accomplished, again for me, with finding that first of all I had to use a full kerf blade with a stabilizer. A thin kerf blade would not work for me. This was not true for simple 90 degree cuts, but when it csme to 30 degree cuts for example it was different story. I know that other members that read this will be tired of hearing me talk about my quest for that level of accuracy, I'm just saying that learning about such things is part of what has made woodworking so interesting and challenging for me. There is indeed a difference between being a carpenter and a fine woodworker, at least that is so in my view. I'm just starting to learn how to make toung and mortise joints. Making one is easy but am waiting to see how making eight of them so that the project stays squard and level is my present challenge. If it were easy, being very accurate with everything I mean, anybody could do it. It's not easy and that is what makes it so interesting. 

Wishing you the best in your quest for accuracy,

Jerry


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points. I change pencils as needed to keep my lines as fine as possible. I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.

I have been using the triangles shown in the following link for layouts and adjusting set ups and they work very well. See them here: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25091&site=ROCKLER

With most routing jobs I use brass set up bars.

For calibrating machines I use the Betterley Unigauge.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mike said:


> I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points. I change pencils as needed to keep my lines as fine as possible. I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.
> 
> I have been using the triangles shown in the following link for layouts and adjusting set ups and they work very well. See them here: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25091&site=ROCKLER
> 
> ...


I'm with you on the mechanical pencils only they are Pentels in .05, .07, and .09mm complete w/ slip on triangle shaped silicone grips... Have a .03mm but that doesn't get used much.. the leads are too fragile for woodworking..

Drill sizing gauges to verify diameters... (wait till you try and figure out the true dia of an off shore bit)... different from bit to bit even with the same size declaration..
A wide array of drafting triangles, circle templates, protractors, (adjustable and not) curves, compasses, dividers, (IS/OS) Wixey..

Squares, saddle squares, machinist squares, speed squares, machined rulers from 6" to 72", centering rulers to 48", straight edges, trammels, folding rulers, calipers, marking gauges, brass gauges, cutting gauges, array of marking knives, set up dial indicators/bases, thickness gauges, fixed angle gauges and on and on....

What do want for four generations of tools/machinery...


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> I'm with you on the mechanical pencils only they are Pentels in .05, .07, and .09mm complete w/ slip on triangle shaped silicone grips... Have a .03mm but that doesn't get used much.. the leads are too fragile for woodworking..
> 
> Drill sizing gauges to verify diameters... (wait till you try and figure out the true dia of an off shore bit)... different from bit to bit even with the same size declaration..
> A wide array of drafting triangles, circle templates, protractors, (adjustable and not) curves, compasses, dividers, (IS/OS) Wixey..
> ...



Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foriegn to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.

Jerry


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Stick, you and Mike* talk in terms that absolutely foreign to people like myself* which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.
> 
> Jerry


How so on the foreign terms???
How may I break down what I post to benefit you or make for a better understanding???
Be happy to, just ask...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

For me it comes down to how accuate it has to be. Miters have to be exact so for that I use a powered miter saw and cut the piece a little longer, maybe just a wisker but none the less longer. I then will check the fit and go back two or three times to get it dead on. I like using a knife instead of a pencil if the cut has to be really accurate. I will also use a Lion miter trimmer and shave the edge. I also use "sticks" at times to take the measurement to eliminate any error that a tape measure might give me. As last resort I may undercut a piece a little so that only the very tip of the edge is in contact with the mating piece.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

steamingbill said:


> use of jigs to make all relevant pieces the same length, width, holes in the same place etc


For making multiples, that is exactly how I do it.

For one time, I often just cut close to the pencil mark, then carefully sand down to it. That normally gives me the accuracy I need/desire. Sometime in the near future I will be doing a small octagon of 1/2" plywood, just that way. I have several patterns glued down, so have some spares until I get it perfect. Then once I get a perfect piece, it will be used in making a jig/master so I can clone as many as I want, with no need for measuring or marking. They'll be used for chess piece bases, and checkers.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mgmine said:


> For me it comes down to how accuate it has to be. Miters have to be exact so for that I use a powered miter saw and cut the piece a little longer, maybe just a wisker but none the less longer. I then will check the fit and go back two or three times to get it dead on. I like using a knife instead of a pencil if the cut has to be really accurate. I will also use a Lion miter trimmer and shave the edge. I also use "sticks" at times to take the measurement to eliminate any error that a tape measure might give me. As last resort I may undercut a piece a little so that only the very tip of the edge is in contact with the mating piece.


I also use the CMS and Lion knife also though it takes jigs to do compounds on the knife...
also use a miter board and a low angle smoothing plane at times...
Didn't think there were many Lion users out there...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Mike said:


> I have been testing a Bic mechanical pencil which uses leads that measure 0.7 mm and at this point I am still undecided on it.


Mike, I have been using those for some time now, and am very satisfied with them. The lead lasts a long time, and when it's used up, there are two spares in the pencil (most people don't seem to know that). I usually misplace one long before the lead is used up. At a buck or so for a dozen+, can't go wrong. And you always get the same size pencil mark.


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Stick486 said:


> How so on the fore.ign terms???
> How may I break down what I post to benefit you or make for a better understanding???
> Be happy to, just ask...


Stick, I am not capable of understanding every term that you guys use from time to time. What I am happy about is that you are available when specific questions come up and my learning is best done as I need it.

Thanks,
Jerry


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## Wood Chip (Apr 10, 2011)

Excellent question! So much great advice too.

Unfortunately I can't afford to buy incra-this and miter-that. I have to make-do with what I have, and hopefully make-do better than I made-did. Instead of looking inward for the human causes of inaccuracy (after all, we're perfect, right?), I looked at my tools. If you don't already, I urge you to develop the habits of cleaning and sharpening your tools to keep them in top shape. This is a valuable first step that doesn't cost much. Once your tools are accurate, then you can explore other solutions.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Stick,* I am not capable of understanding every term that you guys use from time to time.* What I am happy about is that you are available when specific questions come up and my learning is best done as I need it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Jerry


You either... (but what was it that I said)???
I wunder if there is a glossary buried in here some place...

ask away... I know there is a some kind of serious brain trust here at the ready...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Stick, you and Mike talk in terms that absolutely foriegn to people like myself which just makes knowing how very much there is to be learned about woodworking. It's good thing that the enjoyment that one gets out of woodworking is not based on one's knowledge, but rather learning about such things as you two wizard and others on the forum like you already know. Sure do appreciate your vast knowledge and willingness to help folks like me.
> 
> Jerry


I think I got it now...

it's the tool terminology....

other than the Lion knife (the company closed it's doors) everything we talk of you will find in LeeValley Veritas, Highland Woodworking, Woodcraft, and Rockler catalogs...
Read these catalogs and gleam...
Tool names, functions, purpose and a whole array of other cool information to be had for free...
Rockler and LeeValley each have news letters with massive lists of tutorials done for the early novice as well as the more advanced..

Go to these company's web sites and get on their mailing lists... Explore the bonus links...

LeeValley 1-800-871-8158.... Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Woodworking Supplies, Woodworking Books for Woodworkers 
Look to here... Lee Valley Tools - Email Sign-up
Highland 1-800-241-6748.... Woodworking Tools | Woodworking Equipment
Look here too... Highland Wood News | Online Woodworking Magazine | Highland Woodworking
Woodcraft (look to your locale) Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft
Rockler (look to your locale) http://www.rockler.com/index.cfm?gclid=CITy9vj9_rQCFetDMgodFFkAxg
Freud (what does to who and how to do it) About Us


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Jerry, please do ask questions if something is not clear. This means I failed. It's nasty cold here today but I will get into the garage soon and take some photos.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Never without a couple of .05mm mech. pencils in my pocket. Cheap and practical.
Replacement leads are even cheaper.
Great thread topic, Bill.
Speaking of reflections, my machinists rules drive me crazy; as bad if not worse than trying to read one of the old mercury clinical thermometers.


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## steamingbill (Jan 13, 2013)

*Octagon*



JOAT said:


> For making multiples, that is exactly how I do it.
> Sometime in the near future I will be doing a small octagon of 1/2" plywood, just that way.


I made an octagonal "pipe" once just for fun

After making the 22.5 degree jig I came up with a cheat.

Make the octagon in 2 halves each one being a 4 sided piece. 

Dry fit the 2 sections together, if they match exactly give yourself a pat on the back ............. 

If they dont match exactly, then prior to gluing them together you can run both of the 4 sided sections along some sandpaper glued to a flat piece of wood or glass, ensuring that the angle between the first edge and the 4th edge of the octagon is exactly 180 degrees.

This helps to eliminate the accumulated inaccuracies from the multiple cuts.

This will work with any 4 6 8 10 12 (etc) sided figure, as when you are half way around the polygon the first and last edges should be in the same plane.

Regards

Bill


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Bill

You touch on some interesting issues. Like you I'm aware of the ways of working in the construction industry which means that a multitude of small errors can be overcome simply because the last items in the process, such as skirtings (baseboard) which can be used to cover minor defects in the plasterwork (although to be fair I was taught that plaster should always end 1in shy of the floor in any case to reduce moisture wicking). 

When making a piece of furniture or a cabinet it's a little different. All the cuts for the man carcass or frames need to be bang on and to that end you need to check and double check the accuracy of your right angle cuts. As others have said, though, don't set-out the joints until you have prepped the materials, after all the 24mm called for in the drawing might be 22mm in your material because you needed to take ot some cupping. Are your squares accurate? Do you know how to check them? Many woodworkers squares are a mile out to start with; cheapish all-steel engineers's squares of "B" grade are a fare better bet and very affordable. Is your saw (table or mitre) cutting a true 90 degree cut? Again do you know how to check it without using a square? Getting the angles and measurements right is a must and to that end you touch on a technique used by time-served joiners and cabinetmakers for centuries which does away with the inherrent human error-prone use of a measuring tape - the rod or story pole:



steamingbill said:


> ie use of story sticks instead of rulers ?


If working from scale drawings it is always better to set-out everything full-size on the "rod" then transfer all dimensions directly from the "rod" to the material. Smaller dimensions are often best transferred using relatively cheap wing dividers:










(the somewhat tattier ones I carry cost £2, or $3, from a flea market) Which can also be used in conjunction with a steel ruler and a set square to divide lines into any portions you want - want to mark something so that it's 2/7ths of 15.6in (comes to more than 10 decimal places on my calculator)? No problem. By now you'll be getting the impression that I don't measure all that much and you'd be right. 

Another aid in this area is to use a single tape throughout a job - not all tapes are equal. If you don't believe me pull out three 3 metre (10ft) tapes side by side and I'm almost certain that at least one of them will have some obvious variations (and that's for the better quality makes like Stanley or Lufkin). If you need to measure something absolutely then the only way is an engraved steel engineers rule and not a screen printed aluminium rule or a tape.

Knifing to a line is traditionally how cabinetmakers worked, just as they also use cutting gauges to mark out across the grain and marking gauges to mark with the grain 









_Above: Cheap carpenter's and joiners marking gauge - for use *with* the grain
Below: Cutting gauge - for use *across* the grain. Note that the blade is removeable for sharpening_









(and a mortise marking gauge for setting out M&T joints, Jerry) and they also use a knife with the blade sharpened only on one side:










not a Stanley knife (the bevel face is used on the waste side of the cut). For joinery this is less of a need because the level of accuracy required is generally somewhat less, but it doesn't mean that you can be slapdash. On less critical softwood joinery tasks I often mark out with a pencil - generally a Staedler 2H rather than a cheap Chinese HB - the harder lead makes a finer line and you can sharpen good quality pencils more easily whilst on hardwood jobs I tend to knife the line

If you are making multiple identical components it can make sense to gang saw two or three pieces simultaneously or if cross cutting on a mitre saw or radial arm saw to set a fixed end block then cut all alike components in one run. as soon as you get the tape out your accuracy is gone.

A small, competent marking and measuring kit with a couple of squares, a steel rule, a marking knife, marking and cutting gauges doesn't cost a fortune and reaps dividends in terms of accuracy. Over here in rip off Britain I could probably put a flea market kit together for £15 ($22) - new tools would up it to £40 ($60). Other stuff like sliding bevels, mortise gauges and a good quality (engineer's) combination square can be added at a later date, or when required. Without such a kit I cannot see how I'd ever do any reasonable work



Mike said:


> I have found that marking knives while accurate are at times difficult to see. I have a drawer full of sharpened pencils with very fine points.


Hi Mike 

The reason for using a marking knife is partly that it shears the grain at the surface and makes for a cleaner cut on joints like tenons. An oblique directional light source, as opposed to the diffuse illumination of strip lighting is preferable although the cut can always be highlighted by using a pencil afterwards



Stick486 said:


> other than the Lion knife (the company closed it's doors)


Hi Stick

As you are probably aware, the Lion was a generic mitre guillotine which almost every woodworking machinery seemed to make a version of from the late C.19th until into the 1950s, often in 4 or 5 different sizes. Pootatuck Corp. were the last man standing in the USA until they finished, but here in Europe the place of that type of machine was taken over by the Morso-type guillotine from the late 1950s onwards:










This type of machine is especially favoured by picture framers, although there are other, slightly different machines made by the likes of Orteguil:










although there are Chinese copies of the traditional mitre guillotine still to be had, such as this one sold by Axminster Power Tool in the UK (although there are other people selling them both here and in the USA):









Of course traditional hand woodworkers made do without such contrivances and simply made a mitre shooting board for use with their jack or jointer plane like the ones in this excellent article by Derek Cohen

Regards

Phil


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello Phil...

I see you have been rummaging thru my stuff...

On the miters I kept Lion Knife (bottom pic) and sold the shear years ago (third pic from the bottom)... But I still like doing them the traditional way and prefer the LA smoother...

All the hand tools you show routinely come into play here... I'm very comfortable being old time... The latest and greatest toys pull their share of the load though... 

80+% of my work is cleaning up/repairing/finishing after others... Either adopting their style or blending theirs to mine for completion...
Also have a production side too and the bottom line matters... Power all the way....


just finished an apothecary having 840 drawers... Picked it up at the incomplete carcase to finish... The face frame almost had me whimpering and have had my fill of dovetails for a while... Started having dreams about them before I was finished... Why can't people think outta the red oak box???
Then there was the maple on maple on maple on maple on maple kitchen w/settee and maple wide plank flooring in old world method...
Or the walnut on walnut on walnut den... 
But that's OK... the kitchen got painted several shades of blue, the floor tiled and the den became white within a week of completion... that was only the tip of the iceberg..

Sorry, had to rant.... I'll put my soap box away now...


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

It seems, when machinist get old, they start woodworking.

I have all types of gages, and methods of calibration.
I can use this equipment to fine tune my woodworking machines, make fixtures to close tolerances, ect.

This is the main problem I encounter- the wood.
I have wood that is a hundred years old, been sitting in my shop for years, so, its about as normalized as it can get.

I can machine this wood to very close tolerances today, but it will not be the same the next day, and way out of tolerance next week.

I found its just not predictable, doesnt matter much what type of wood, even boards I resaw from the same beam, can behave differently- cup, twist, stretch, and shrink.

It seems the more cuts that is needed, adds to the distortion, that seems to begin even more rapidly. The worst for that is long box joints, I must get those together with in hours of making them.

I solved all my machine alignment problems, and finally bought a planer, that really is helping in getting my projects together much quicker, less time for distortion to set in.

Just from my observations, I can cut the wood accurately, but it does not stay that way very long.

Don


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

I'm with you, Don. I saw that very issue when I tried to mill some oak down for my router fence. It was flat, straight, and square the day I milled it. A week later when I checked it, not so much. There was no way I ws going to use it in my fence and simply introduce error in my projects. That's why I went to MDF. I have more trust in engineered products to retain the shape and dimensions I need for jigs and fixtures. Since then I tend to under mill till I'm sure I can assemble after the final milling and hope the structure of the assembly will brace the work against the wood movement to some degree.

GCG


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Sawdust Don said:


> It seems, when machinist get old, they start woodworking.
> 
> I have all types of gages, and methods of calibration.
> I can use this equipment to fine tune my woodworking machines, make fixtures to close tolerances, ect.
> ...


decide what tolerance works for you and stay there...
I like 1/64 which does a pretty good job of staying within a 1/32 parameter.... but as you noted, nothing seems to last... Achieving 1/128 on the spot is easy.. but it lasts after the fact for what, all of a minuet or less...
There is a reason why non- machinist rules and tapes are graduated in 1/16th's....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Like Dan, I use a .5 mm mechanical pencil for all my woodworking if I am using a pencil. However, the best a pencil can do is a line about 1/50". A sharp steel edge will make a line about 1/250". For mitre saws I strongly recommend blade stabilizers unless you are using absolute top-of-the-line blades. I thought I had purchased a good blade but was still getting poor cuts until I put them on the saw. For repetitive cuts use a stop or use a jig if the piece is too small to hold or too awkward to hold. Even at that you may have to custom fit the last piece. If you try to sand to fit be careful. Sanding tends to produce rounded edges. Only use a solid sanding block (e.g. mdf) with the paper glued to it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi
If you are like me I use many of the Incra tools and the mechanical pencil is a must have item.

Amazon.com: incra rules: Tools & Home Improvement

========


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Speaking of mechanical pencils.
I just purchased 3 of these from .5 to .9.
I use them so much, I think the modest cost is worth it.
Hard to see in the photo, the thin sleeve tip is extra long.
Amazon.com: Pentel Graphgear 500 Pencil - 0.5 mm Lead Size - Black Barrel - 1 Each: Office Products


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## monty.smith (May 2, 2012)

Hi 
Just a suggestion, so when I’m doing a project, no matter what i will not switch tools, say if I measure with one type of device I’ll stay with that device until project complete. I have about a hundred tape measures but the one i start with is the one that gets used throughout the whole project, same with squares, marking devices, what edge I’m marking and measuring from. 

It helps me, I’ve noticed even with an old worn out tape measure that if there is an imperfection in the tape that imperfection caries through the whole project, then really is there and imperfection, of course this applies to most projects but not all.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

monty.smith said:


> Hi
> Just a suggestion, so when I’m doing a project, no matter what i will not switch tools, say if I measure with one type of device I’ll stay with that device until project complete. I have about a hundred tape measures but the one i start with is the one that gets used throughout the whole project, same with squares, marking devices, what edge I’m marking and measuring from.
> 
> It helps me, I’ve noticed even with an old worn out tape measure that if there is an imperfection in the tape that imperfection caries through the whole project, then really is there and imperfection, of course this applies to most projects but not all.


unless you take the time to calibrate and verify measures, squares and anything else you have at your disposal... weed the non-performers, fix or get rid them or give them to somebody on your do not care fore list...

Remove or lower the possibilities for mistakes/errors...


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

I use story sticks, jigs, direct "measurement", set up bars, American made drill bits (imperial and metric), and a tape measure (as infrequently as possible).
Machine angle set ups are verified with Wixey or draftsman's plastic triangle.
To verify an angle on the miter gauge I use a MITERSET. Once I had the Miterset, I sold my old Lion Miter trimmer to a frame maker in town. 
Mechanical pencils with .05 lead are bought at the Dollar Store. Five on a card for a buck. 
I like fancy marking knives gauges because they are neat to look at and hold. I rarely use them because I always have to darken the line with a pencil, anyway.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

GulfcoastGuy said:


> I saw that very issue when I tried to mill some oak down for my router fence. It was flat, straight, and square the day I milled it. A week later when I checked it, not so much.


Hi Patrick

Mike (MAFoElffen) and I were discusssing this quite recently and it turns out that we have two different but equally effective approaches to the problem. We are both in areas which can experience rapid changes in relative humidity, so our respective approaches are: (Mike) machine slightly oversize at the start of the project then machine to final dimensions, etc just before assembly; (me) I tenf to machine only as much as I know I can joint and assemble in a single session or store machined timbers/partly completed work in a sealed "box" between sessions (which can be just a poly bag inside another poly bag with then ends taped shut). Both techniques aim at minimising the amount of movement in the timber. As to fence stability I've always preferred plywood over MDF, but well sealed with polyurethane lacquer to minimise the amount of moisture absorbption. I do make-up MDF router templates from time to time, and if they need to last I'll go for green (moisture resistant) MDF well lacquered if possible



Cherryville Chuck said:


> If you try to sand to fit be careful. Sanding tends to produce rounded edges. Only use a solid sanding block (e.g. mdf) with the paper glued to it.


Hi Charles

I do the same for what we call sanding boards. A little wrinkle that we use is to screw a piece of planed 2 x 1in softwood down one side on the sanding board which makes it easier to true-up slightly out of square edges



Gene Howe said:


> I like fancy marking knives gauges because they are neat to look at and hold. I rarely use them because I always have to darken the line with a pencil, anyway.


Hi Gene

It can help to have a cheap Anglepoise (Flexo) lamp near the bench to provide obtuse lighting across the timber. They have other uses, too, such as helping to see surface defects/hollows and in picking-out finishing defects

Regards 

Phil


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

There is always need for judgement for when what degree accuracy is needed.
What comes to mind is a chicken shed and a show case.

Don


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Phil P said:


> Hi Patrick
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have one pretty much as you described. The main job I use mine for is to flatten, smooth, and straighten the build-up strip applied under a counter top for the edge strip. Another sanding aid I use is a piece of counter top laminate, usually about 50mm x 75mm (2x3 for those who don't know metric), and glue various grits of sandpaper to the backside. It's good for sanding areas like the flat of a fillet where a sanding block would be too large and awkward to handle.


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## Mark55 (Sep 6, 2012)

If you are making cuts all the same size you must set up a jig or stops on your saw. it is very hard to measure and make precision multiple cuts the same. But if you have to keep a sharp pencil or knife. I have an electric pencil sharpener right next to my miter saw. 
This reminds me , I see guys on jobs using a thick carpenter pencils for marking and cutting trim. I give them a little grief and ask them, are they going to cut on the right side of the line, the left side or in the middle and leave a line on both sides?


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

" I have an electric pencil sharpener right next to my miter saw"
Doesn't it damage your mechanical pencil?


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## Mark55 (Sep 6, 2012)

" I have an electric pencil sharpener right next to my miter saw"
Doesn't it damage your mechanical pencil? 

Dan,
I don't know I will have to try that and see what happens!!!LOL :lol:


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## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Well, there are choices, me thinks I will use the first 3.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> " I have an electric pencil sharpener right next to my miter saw"
> Doesn't it damage your mechanical pencil?


would one at the battery charging station count???

and then there is are the colored pencils....
sometimes the marks from a regular pencil become invisible...
color coding helps too...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"would one at the battery charging station count???"

Ooo,,,a digital pencil! I want one!!


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## steamingbill (Jan 13, 2013)

*What are set up bars ?*



Gene Howe said:


> Machine angle set ups are verified with Wixey or draftsman's plastic triangle.
> To verify an angle on the miter gauge I use a MITERSET.


Thanks

Have googled Wixey and Miterset and set up bars - they look to be very useful.

Bill


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