# Are these the right tools?



## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Hi everyone,

I'm _very_ new to this work but bound and determined to get good at it. I build guitar amplifiers and want to build cabinets for them too. What I have in mind is something like this:










. . a rounded over box joint (right?).

I'll be buying the tools needed this coming week. Looking around I found a "Factory-Reconditioned Skil 1825-RT 2-1/4-Horsepower 2-Inch Router Combo Kit with Site Light" for $70. It comes with both fixed and plunge attachments.

I also found a "12" DOVETAIL ROUTER JIG/ JOINT DOVE TAIL MACHINE" for $50 on Ebay. Don't know the brand but the pictures make it look like all the brand name ones I see out there.

Some bushings, etc. will probably also be needed, but this is where my noobness takes over; I don't have a clue.

I would really appreciate any information. Are these the tools I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Ken


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## RJM (Apr 11, 2010)

sepulchre said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm _very_ new to this work but bound and determined to get good at it. I build guitar amplifiers and want to build cabinets for them too. What I have in mind is something like this:
> 
> ...


Can you upload the picture? I don't see it (website may be blocked).


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

This is the one most buy off ebay .
Dovetail Machine

But I would suggest you get the box joint jig ,see below ,you will be glad you did that's if you have a router table but if not you are stuck with the one you got off ebay..
The night mare dovetail jig..that can also be use for box joints.

Oak Park Enterprises Ltd.: Catalogue

========


sepulchre said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm _very_ new to this work but bound and determined to get good at it. I build guitar amplifiers and want to build cabinets for them too. What I have in mind is something like this:
> 
> ...


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> ... if not you are stuck with the one you got off ebay..
> The night mare dovetail jig..that can also be use for box joints.
> ========


Hmm. "Night mare dovetail jig" doesn't sound very inviting. I was kind of planning on getting a table eventually anyway. So you're suggesting that I get a table rather than a dovetail jig? The ads and videos I've seen make them look pretty easy to use, but I'm Way too noob to see through the hype. Or is it just that particular model that's a night mare?
Thanks for the info. I'm going to look at the videos - I'm sure to learn from them.

@ RJM60: The picture is posted on photobucket. I can see it but I don't know if anyone else can. Maybe I haven't made enough posts yet. I'll try it again here:










I don't know of a way to actually upload a picture to the forum, so I hope this works.
Btw, closer examination had revealed it to be a rounded over dovetail joint. but it gets the idea across.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

*choosing a method*

There are several methods commonly used for making box joints, including on the table saw, on a router table, or with a dovetail/box-joint jig. With the latter, the spacing of the "fingers" on the template requires a guide bushing and bit of a size appropriate for the jig. Note, however, that not all jigs are created equal.

In your application, another consideration is the size of the amplifier cabinet components. Large components can be a little unwieldy on a table saw or router table, since the cuts are being made with the component on end. Any wobble will likely result in a loose fit, or worse. Because of that, my personal opinion would be that a bench-mounted jig might be easier for you to use. 

If you decide to go that route, I'd suggest investing in one of the better jigs that will also do through dovetails - either a Porter Cable 4200 series, or one of the Leigh jigs. If you do a lot of these, the PC OmniJig might even be appropriate. I think the higher price of the better jigs will pay you back in ease of use, versatility, and better-fitting joints in the long run.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

First, I thank you all for your replies and advice. I'm shooting in the dark without it.
I think I found a deal on Craig's list - a Craftsman 1 3/4 HP router with table and bits for $45. At this point I really can't afford a more expensive jig. The largest pieces for my amp cabinet are 10" X 18". So I'm hoping that the table will work, or that an inexpensive jig will do. I will not be doing a lot of these for the time being (though I hope to in the future) so I must be practical with my investment. If / when I do start selling these amps I will look into better equipment.

@RJM60: Oops! Wrong picture. Here's what I meant to post:










Thanks again everyone,
Ken


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, the initial reason for dovetail joints was their locking ability, helping to hold the joint together since glues were difficult to work with and often failed. With modern glues actually being stronger than the wood the need for locking joints has diminished. Dovetail joints are now more a testament to the skill of the woodworker. Box joints are decorative and plenty strong enough for most projects, they are much easier and faster to create. You can create box joints with a table saw but the router set up is much quicker and easier. Having tried different methods I can assure you that BJ is right about the Oak Park jigs. Watch the video on the web site, it gives complete information on the three jigs which sell for about $50. You will be an expert in no time.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks Mike & BJ. Since I have decided on a router / fence deal the Oak Park jig looks like the best bet.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

I do agree with the Guys, That is My choice as well.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

What about HP? I was looking at a 1 3/4 HP Craftsman w/table but it has already sold. There's another one, a Ryobi 1 1/2 HP w/table for only $65 but it's an hour and a half drive (one way) from here.
There's a Skil 2 1/4 HP with both fixed and plunge bases for $77 online. Will any router fit any table?


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

sepulchre said:


> What about HP? I was looking at a 1 3/4 HP Craftsman w/table but it has already sold. There's another one, a Ryobi 1 1/2 HP w/table for only $65 but it's an hour and a half drive (one way) from here.
> There's a Skil 2 1/4 HP with both fixed and plunge bases for $77 online. *Will any router fit any table?*


The match is really with the plate used to mount the router. Some plates have multiple holes for different routers, other plates are designed to fit a specific model. You can re-drill a plate for a different router base, but a fair degree of precision is required.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks for the info, Ralph. 

There's a Skil 1/2 HP (model 1825 - $77) I like, and Skil makes an inexpensive table too ($75). I know these would match and for about $150 I'd be in business. Add to that an Oak Park jig and a couple of bits and I'm hoping for a figure under $200 total. This is entry level, mind you.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, I suggest you spend just a bit more for your router. You can get a Craftsman combo kit for about $100, This will let you mount the fixed base to your table and have the plunge base for free hand work. Many forum members have bought these units and are very happy with them. I would suggest you build your own table. You will find the best price on a mounting plate is from Harbor Freight, right now on sale for $15. There are instructions on the forums to properly mount your router to the plate. You will also find instructions on mounting the plate in a section of 3/4" baltic birch plywood which can be clamped to saw horses. This is the least expensive router table to get you going. If you purchase a 1/2 sheet of Formica you can adhere it to the top and bottom of the plywood; this is the type of construction in most of the top quality router tables. Building a box under the table top is quick and easy... and you are set. Give it some thought.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Mike: 
I certainly will consider your advice. Building a table is something I have been thinking about anyway. Is there a reason for the Baltic Birch? I have installed plenty of formica so that would not be a problem. Could I use another hardwood? I don't know about the availability of Baltic Birch here.
Also, the router I've been looking at is a Skil 1825 - 2 1/4 HP that comes with both fixed and plunge bases. It's a factory refurbished model - thus the low price. Do you still recommend the Craftsman? Lame as this sounds, I have to cut costs as much as possible. I need to be able to afford bits and a jig (even if it's only $23).
Thanks for your help,
Ken


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

sepulchre said:


> Mike:
> I certainly will consider your advice. Building a table is something I have been thinking about anyway. Is there a reason for the Baltic Birch? I have installed plenty of formica so that would not be a problem. Could I use another hardwood? I don't know about the availability of Baltic Birch here.
> Also, the router I've been looking at is a Skil 1825 - 2 1/4 HP that comes with both fixed and plunge bases. It's a factory refurbished model - thus the low price. Do you still recommend the Craftsman? Lame as this sounds, I have to cut costs as much as possible. I need to be able to afford bits and a jig (even if it's only $23).
> Thanks for your help,
> Ken


Hi Ken - I can understand cutting costs, boy, can I understand that. The Skil kit should work for you. You can get a 2ftx4ft hunk of 3/4" MDF from Home Depot for about $10. Cut that up so you have 2 pieces of 4" x 48" and 2 pieces 20" x 24". Laminate the two 20" x 24" together and you have your table top. Cut one of the 4" x 48" pieces in half to make two 4" x 24" pieces join them at right angles and you have your fence. Put your $15 Harbor Freight plate in with the router intalled and you have your table. You will need to seal the table and it may sag a bit over time but this will get you up and running and you can plan upgrades.
You could also consider making your own box joint jig. Here is a link to several different plans. Some fairly complicated but also some pretty simple. The first few are for table saw but there are several for a router table.

http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2010/0...ns-finger-joints-on-the-table-saw-and-router/

Hope this helps


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks, John. Sounds easy enough, and the jig plans look good too.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

sepulchre said:


> Thanks, John. Sounds easy enough, and the jig plans look good too.


Hi Ken - Thanks, I just re-read the post, table could actually be cut down more, 16-18" deep is plenty for a small table. May have enough MDF left over to make the jig too.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Ken, you get what you pay for. I believe the additional cost for the Craftsman is justified because you are getting two bases and the ability to use PC style guide bushings with no modifications. As you browse the forums this will make more sense to you. Baltic birch plywood has no voids, it is solid plywood. Lower grades of plywood will have voids which reduce the strength. Baltic birch is available everywhere but you may have to ask for it. The bottom line is getting you started so don't worry if you need to cut costs/corners at this point. The router is the least expensive part, it is the bits that will cost you.


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

Well, I got the Skil 1825 with two bases. I also got a Skil table. It's very nice (and inexpensive) but to mount the Oak Park jig it will require a couple of holes drilled in it. I think my neighbor will let me use his drill press. Hope I get it lined up properly. The bits don't get here until Tuesday. The Oak Park instructions say that a half inch brass spacer is needed to set the jig at the right spot for mounting. Seems like a wooden spacer would work, but I'm looking for a metal one anyway. Since the bit has to be on it to line it up I have a couple of days to find one.

Mike: If I need to use PC bushings I guess a new router will be in store. But for now I got what I could afford.

Thanks for all the help,

Ken


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

sepulchre said:


> Well, I got the Skil 1825 with two bases. I also got a Skil table. It's very nice (and inexpensive) but to mount the Oak Park jig it will require a couple of holes drilled in it. I think my neighbor will let me use his drill press. Hope I get it lined up properly. The bits don't get here until Tuesday. The Oak Park instructions say that a half inch brass spacer is needed to set the jig at the right spot for mounting. Seems like a wooden spacer would work, but I'm looking for a metal one anyway. Since the bit has to be on it to line it up I have a couple of days to find one.
> 
> Mike: If I need to use PC bushings I guess a new router will be in store. But for now I got what I could afford.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken, you can use a 1/2" drill bit, allen wrench... etc.. Anything with a 1/2" working dimension. Drill bits are usually easiest to come by.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

You don't need to drill holes in the router table to mount the OP spacer jigs just use some 1/4" thick MDF and clamp it to the top...by using the edge of the top..

" brass spacer " not sure what you mean by that..?

I you are talking about the brass setup bars you can get some brass key stock at ACE hardware/HD/Lowes and make your own for peanuts.

Also see the link below how to use the spacer jigs without drilling any hole in your top, plus check out the great how-to-do it video at the bottom of the web page.
many tips 

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/fast_joint_system.html
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sepulchre said:


> Well, I got the Skil 1825 with two bases. I also got a Skil table. It's very nice (and inexpensive) but to mount the Oak Park jig it will require a couple of holes drilled in it. I think my neighbor will let me use his drill press. Hope I get it lined up properly. The bits don't get here until Tuesday. The Oak Park instructions say that a half inch brass spacer is needed to set the jig at the right spot for mounting. Seems like a wooden spacer would work, but I'm looking for a metal one anyway. Since the bit has to be on it to line it up I have a couple of days to find one.
> 
> Mike: If I need to use PC bushings I guess a new router will be in store. But for now I got what I could afford.
> 
> ...


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

John: Why didn't I think of that?
Thanks!

Bob: Another great idea! 

Again, thanks for saving me a bunch of trouble. I can be up and running in jig time (terrible pun, I know).


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

bj is good at cutting cost. And it works just the same. Must have some Dutch blood in Him?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Howard

I come from the Dutchland and Germany or to say my granddad did and grandmother did  we don't fall to far from the tree the norm but I think I came from Cheap-land the home for many cheap SOB's. 

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dutchman 46 said:


> bj is good at cutting cost. And it works just the same. Must have some Dutch blood in Him?


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm in good company, it seems.


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

That makes Me understand. I am still trying to dig out of My Dads dutchness! There are boxes, and boxes, Yet, This guy (Me) fell rite at the foot of the tree


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

*keeping it square?*

Here's what I've got:










This was at my electronics bench, not where it will be used. 

My question here is, how do you keep your work square with the fence? I will probably clamp two pieces together to avoid tear out and that would give me more of a surface against the jig's fence. But is there a more sure way?

(I'm such a noob. Sorry for the duh questions.)


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

Not a big deal to keep it sq with the top, but I would suggest you replace the wing nuts with flat head counter sink screws and tee nuts,tee nuts on the bottom side in a pocket hole and the flat head screws on the top side, you will need the path clear to the fence on the back end and the front end of the jig,it's needed to hold the setup block sometimes..

I did post a jig to help hold the stock true to the fence and to help you to hold the stock //
http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/3543-deluxe-push-block.html

Also see the video on the bottom of the web page below, it will give you more tips on using the spacer jig .
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shop...pages/fast_joint_system.html#multijoint_video

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sepulchre said:


> Here's what I've got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

After asking about this a few ideas came to me but not as good as this. 
Thanks!


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## sepulchre (Oct 9, 2010)

*Got it!*

Well, here is the end result. Along the way I bought a table saw, a new drill, a Dremel and some other odds and ends. 
The wood for this, select pine, was slightly cupped so it doesn't fit as well as I would like. The next one will be in oak - much flatter and straighter. But I learned a Bunch about doing this along the way.





































Thanks for all your help!

Ken


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ken

Very nice job, your welcome for my very small part you did all the great work>

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sepulchre said:


> Well, here is the end result. Along the way I bought a table saw, a new drill, a Dremel and some other odds and ends.
> The wood for this, select pine, was slightly cupped so it doesn't fit as well as I would like. The next one will be in oak - much flatter and straighter. But I learned a Bunch about doing this along the way.
> 
> 
> ...


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