# dovetail joints



## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

Hello. I bought my router some time ago but didn't use it much because my unsteady hand coould not hold the damned thing straight, however the cuts were getting straighter with practice but recently i picked up a router table that was designed to go with my router and finally got round to mounting it today. A project i want to build is some shelves and although you can buy metal angle brackets as cheap as chips, I saw a design for some home made wooden ones whcih although would cost more to make than buying some metal ones, the sense of achievement would be greater. The angle brackets use a dovetail joint and i have a dovetail bit for my router but my question is that although it's obvious how to cut a dovetail groove, how would one cut the bit that slides in it? is there a tried ant tested way or is the way i'm suspecting that uses quite a bit of measuring the only way? 

Thanks


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## friendly1too (Sep 25, 2004)

fjb said:


> Hello. I bought my router some time ago but didn't use it much because my unsteady hand coould not hold the damned thing straight, however the cuts were getting straighter with practice but recently i picked up a router table that was designed to go with my router and finally got round to mounting it today. A project i want to build is some shelves and although you can buy metal angle brackets as cheap as chips, I saw a design for some home made wooden ones whcih although would cost more to make than buying some metal ones, the sense of achievement would be greater. The angle brackets use a dovetail joint and i have a dovetail bit for my router but my question is that although it's obvious how to cut a dovetail groove, how would one cut the bit that slides in it? is there a tried ant tested way or is the way i'm suspecting that uses quite a bit of measuring the only way?
> 
> Thanks


I suspect you are describing what is called a sliding dovetail joint, one cut that goes along the full width of the workpiece. To make that cut you will have to stand the shelves upright (unless you have a table with a horizontal router). DO NOT change the depth of the cut after making the notch. Use a fairly tall fence to help you keep things straight. You will have to make the dovetail by trial and error, cutting a very little at a time until you get the correct setting.


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## ZABOI (May 18, 2010)

Be sute to use a piece of scrap the same thickness as to wood you are using to build the bracket. Trial and errror a little at a time and you should come out alright.

ZABO


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Frank, friendly, Zabo, welcome to the RouterForums. Glad to have yall join us.


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

Dr.Zook said:


> Frank, friendly, Zabo, welcome to the RouterForums. Glad to have yall join us.


Thank you. Glad to be here. Ragarding your sig, lets hope that most of my final projects don't end up as firewood


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

ZABOI said:


> Be sute to use a piece of scrap the same thickness as to wood you are using to build the bracket. Trial and errror a little at a time and you should come out alright.
> 
> ZABO


Some of the routing bits, especially the larger shank ones have a little nippe on the end of the bit which appear to be held on with an alan screw. Am I to remove it? What's it there for anyway?


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

fjb said:


> Some of the routing bits, especially the larger shank ones have a little nippe on the end of the bit which appear to be held on with an alan screw. Am I to remove it? What's it there for anyway?


Bearings on some. If the bit is an adjustable one with multiple cutters, the upper screw is there to let you slip in shims or change out profiles.

If it isn't in the way, don't remove it. Cutters with those types of profiles aren't intended to cut the bottom of a slot anyway.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

fjb said:


> Hello. I bought my router some time ago but didn't use it much because my unsteady hand coould not hold the damned thing straight, however the cuts were getting straighter with practice but recently i picked up a router table that was designed to go with my router and finally got round to mounting it today. A project i want to build is some shelves and although you can buy metal angle brackets as cheap as chips, I saw a design for some home made wooden ones whcih although would cost more to make than buying some metal ones, the sense of achievement would be greater. The angle brackets use a dovetail joint and i have a dovetail bit for my router but my question is that although it's obvious how to cut a dovetail groove, how would one cut the bit that slides in it? is there a tried ant tested way or is the way i'm suspecting that uses quite a bit of measuring the only way?
> 
> Thanks


Sliding dovetail joints, the male portion, are cut in two passes by moving the fence forward to cover most of the bit (obviously you need a split fence or a sacrificial face to cut with the bit to provide clearance). 

You start by exposing just a little bit, make a pass, flip the board so the opposite face is against the fence and make another pass. Test the fit and adjust the fence position as needed. Don't try and measure things like this with a ruler. Just eyeball it close and make test cuts in a sample piece (with the same thickness as your shelves). The height of the bit can be left the same as it was when the female portion of the DT groove is cut. Guarantees a matching shoulder height on the DT tenon portion.

Also, since you are routing end grain, there is the potential for chipout as you exit the cut so consider making the shelve stock a little deeper so you can rip a fresh edge after routing to remove the chipout. Obviously, if there was no chipout you would be ripping an edge anyway to get them to proper width. Maybe an extra 1/4" is sufficient, that gives you 1/8" to rip away on each long edge should you need it.

FYI, when cutting the female portion of the piece I suggest you first use a straight bit to hog out most of the waste from the center of the dovetail groove. Dovetail bits often neck down quite severely, especially 1/4" shaft models. You have to make the cut with the DT bit at full depth so it must work very hard and remove a lot of material in a single pass. By pre-routing the groove with a straight bit you have less to remove with the DT bit. It will last longer, be less likely to be damaged, less strain on the router, etc.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

The BEST sliding dovetail fixture is the one below,you don't need to buy it, you can make your own and it's well worth the time to do so 
The fixture can be used for many,many other router jobs not just for dovetails..

Just a note,,,, you don't need to use any other bit other than the one dovetail bit you have selected to use..

Mitre Gauge System - Oak-Park.com
Oak Park Enterprises Ltd.: Catalogue

=========


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

friendly1too said:


> I suspect you are describing what is called a sliding dovetail joint, one cut that goes along the full width of the workpiece. To make that cut you will have to stand the shelves upright (unless you have a table with a horizontal router). DO NOT change the depth of the cut after making the notch. Use a fairly tall fence to help you keep things straight. You will have to make the dovetail by trial and error, cutting a very little at a time until you get the correct setting.


Yes. That sounds right. the right angle peices ah held with a rightangle triangle peice of wood. There are dovetal joints on two of the sides and the sockets (for want of a better word) on the rightangle pieces.


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

rwyoung said:


> Bearings on some. If the bit is an adjustable one with multiple cutters, the upper screw is there to let you slip in shims or change out profiles.


That sounds great. I wish i knew what any of it meant 



rwyoung said:


> If it isn't in the way, don't remove it. Cutters with those types of profiles aren't intended to cut the bottom of a slot anyway.


Ok.


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

rwyoung said:


> Sliding dovetail joints, the male portion, are cut in two passes by moving the fence forward to cover most of the bit (obviously you need a split fence or a sacrificial face to cut with the bit to provide clearance).
> 
> You start by exposing just a little bit, make a pass, flip the board so the opposite face is against the fence and make another pass. Test the fit and adjust the fence position as needed. Don't try and measure things like this with a ruler. Just eyeball it close and make test cuts in a sample piece (with the same thickness as your shelves). The height of the bit can be left the same as it was when the female portion of the DT groove is cut. Guarantees a matching shoulder height on the DT tenon portion.
> 
> ...



prepare the groove with a sttraight bit and for the other side cut wide to allow for ripping and sand as need be. I think that's what you said  I'm suprised you recommend no measurements though. Still. I'm willing.


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## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

fjb said:


> prepare the groove with a sttraight bit and for the other side cut wide to allow for ripping and sand as need be. I think that's what you said  I'm suprised you recommend no measurements though. Still. I'm willing.


No that's not what I said.

Look at a dovetail bit in profile. See how it gets narrow near the shank. Particularly ones with 1/4" or 8mm shanks can be more narrow at their bottom than the shank itself. This is a weak point.

A dovetail slot must be routed in one pass so if the dovetail bit must take all the wood out by itself it is working very hard and you can put undue strain on that thin portion.

If instead you first route out a square groove with a straight bit to remove the majority of the waste from the future dovetail slot, your dovetail bit will be doing much less of the work. Easier on the bit.

FYI, post four more times in the introduction section by replying to other peoples introduction posts. Once you have 10 posts you can add pictures to your posts. Post a picture of the bit or bits in question.


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

fjb said:


> Yes. That sounds right. the right angle peices ah held with a rightangle triangle peice of wood. There are dovetal joints on two of the sides and the sockets (for want of a better word) on the rightangle pieces.


I think I understand. cut out the majority of the area with a straight bit which will prevent the strain from snapping the doevtail and ending up it flying out and getting buried in my forehead


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## geo[email protected] (May 26, 2010)

Bj:

Thanks for the link on the dovetail Fixture.

I have wanted to cut dovetail for quite a while now but never saw a good demonstration before.

I will attempt to make my own fixture and see if it turns out okay.

I think that my biggest problem will be to create the layout or plan.

While I don't need any fire wood, I like to roast hot dogs so it can not possibly be a waste.

Thanks,

Woodie


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Woodie

Your Welcome
Here's a shot of the one I made, so to say if I did it you can do it also 
It may help with yours...

Just a note,, it can also be used for a sled on you router table 

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[email protected] said:


> Bj:
> 
> Thanks for the link on the dovetail Fixture.
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (May 26, 2010)

Bj:

Thanks for the pictures. They will be a great basis for me to get this jig made.

Would the rotating section where your clamps are situated be so that you can cut a dovetail on a slant across a board? That would possibly be for a slated front, say for a drawer front? 

Thanks again. It will make life much easier for me.

Woodie


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Woodie

Your Welcome

You are right on,, any time you want to use sliding dovetails the jig will do the trick, on and angle or a strait true dovetail.. for drawers,drawer fonts,shelfs,boxes,etc.,many ask how to use plywood on the sides of drawers, this jig will let you do that easy..you could almost call it a hidden joint if done right..  and it's a very strong joint....

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[email protected] said:


> Bj:
> 
> Thanks for the pictures. They will be a great basis for me to get this jig made.
> 
> ...


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## fjb (Apr 30, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Woodie
> 
> Your Welcome
> Here's a shot of the one I made, so to say if I did it you can do it also
> ...


You're clearly gifted sir. That table is a work of art.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Frank

Thank You Sir..

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fjb said:


> You're clearly gifted sir. That table is a work of art.


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