# Spiral cutters versus end mills



## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

Hello, I am a new member and I have a question. What are everyone's thoughts on the best bit for mortises. I have read different opinions on spiral cutters versus end mills.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Dennis and welcome

Spiral router cutters are designexd to cut wood/plastics so they will plumge, clear chips, etc End mills are designed to mill metal, some of the mills I tried years ago wouldn't clear waste effectively and in addition they wouldn't plunge cut all that well either. As iyt happens I tend to use staggered straight bits for mortising, like these

Regards

Phil


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Dennis

This just my 2 cents

" spiral cutters and end mills " are nice but they are Not cheap bits, plus end mills just don't work well in wood, plus end mills are not made for high speed work and they will dull real quick if you use them in your router.. 

You just need a bit that can/will plunge like the ones below..without going to the bank to get some money out to just buy one or two of them..they also make them in the 1/4" size...if you need one.

Plunge Cutting Straight Router Bits

MLCS Plunge Cutting Straight Router Bits


Plus you can get them on this side of the big pond  but you can't get them on your side of the Big lake so you will need to go over the big lake to get them from MLCS but I'm sure someone sales them on your side also..

I have the 3/8",1/2",3/4, and the 1" and they work great.

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denniswoody said:


> Hello, I am a new member and I have a question. What are everyone's thoughts on the best bit for mortises. I have read different opinions on spiral cutters versus end mills.


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

Many thanks for the quick replies. I have never seen bits like yours Phil but I will keep my eyes open. I think I will go with the usual router type bit as Bob J. recommends. If I do find any staggered bits I will let everyone know.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

denniswoody said:


> I have never seen bits like yours Phil but I will keep my eyes open.


Hi Dennis

Well similar ones are available in the USA, it's just a matter of knowing who does them! Sorry I didn't post a North American URL, it's just that Google come up with more local suppliers by default. In general I've found that alost anything that Trend sell in the EU is also sold by Amana in the USA. Amana sell other very interesting cutters for mortising, these, which appear to be an improvement on the deep pocket cutters I already use for lock mortises in doors

Regards

Phil


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

denniswoody said:


> Hello, I am a new member and I have a question. What are everyone's thoughts on the best bit for mortises. I have read different opinions on spiral cutters versus end mills.[/quote
> I have to go along with Bob on this one, never having used the type shown by Phil.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Phil

It's true that Amana sales (see link below) many very nice bits but I just don't buy from them the norm the prices are just about always to high and you need to get over the 35.oo dollar price total to get free shipping from the dealer below, I always try to suggest the best price and shipping ,that can be a deal deal on the bottom line..

Trend is one that's real hard to find in the states but they have open a new place in CD.so I hear ,,so the OP may find them on his side of the boarder and it's big deal to buy tools and have them shipped over the boarder..kicks the price out site the norm.

I always try and check the poster address b/4 I suggest a place to buy tools/bits.
Why waste my time and his/her time on a link that I know they will not use or can't....so to say I always try and do my homework. 

Router bits, Saw blades, CNC Router Bits, Shaper Cutters & More

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Phil P said:


> Hi Dennis
> 
> Well similar ones are available in the USA, it's just a matter of knowing who does them! Sorry I didn't post a North American URL, it's just that Google come up with more local suppliers by default. In general I've found that alost anything that Trend sell in the EU is also sold by Amana in the USA. Amana sell other very interesting cutters for mortising, these, which appear to be an improvement on the deep pocket cutters I already use for lock mortises in doors
> 
> ...


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

I have found staggered straight bits made by Freud at The ToolStore (toolstore.ca) which is based in Canada. I have ordered a 1/2 inch shank 3/8 dia which cuts 1 1/4 inches deep for $33.32. Not cheap but with other bits I needed shipping was only $12.00.


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## CW1 (Mar 20, 2012)

denniswoody said:


> Hello, I am a new member and I have a question. What are everyone's thoughts on the best bit for mortises. I have read different opinions on spiral cutters versus end mills.


There are many kinds of end mills. What you want is a solid carbide two flute endmill. That is all spiral router bits are but when they sell them as router bits, they double the price. I use them for everything calling for a strait bit. They cut better, and last longer than regular router bits. I order them through work but places like Enco are a good source.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*2 flute solid carbide.*



CW1 said:


> There are many kinds of end mills. What you want is a solid carbide two flute endmill. That is all spiral router bits are but when they sell them as router bits, they double the price. I use them for everything calling for a strait bit. They cut better, and last longer than regular router bits. I order them through work but places like Enco are a good source.


I agree with CW. The 2 flute solid carbide spiral endmills work great, and some HS endmill bits also hold up well in wood. Whats great if you live in a large metro area like Mike in the "D" they can be found at flea markets by the pound. Several years ago I used to purchase High Speed bits for $2.50 and solid carbide for $3.50 a pound at a large flea market. At anything close to that price for 1/4 and 1/2 inch bits, that's a lot of bits in a pound. Most spiral endmills will plunge well without burning, just slow the cutting speed down a little.


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## denniswoody (Dec 11, 2011)

I'm going to try the end mills at some point. The Freud staggered bit has worked out very well. I have cut a lot of mortises with it and it's still going strong.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

denniswoody said:


> I'm going to try the end mills at some point. The Freud staggered bit has worked out very well. I have cut a lot of mortises with it and it's still going strong.


Freud bits are not slouches and will give the best out there a run for their money and shame the rest...

On the end mills, watch for the speed rate and stay away from HSS...
DO NOT use Asian rim bits.. Balance is a serious issue with them to the point you can damage your router...
start at cobalt level...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Here is my take on this subject: the typical forum member will get years of use from a good quality solid carbide spiral up cut bit. Because of this I feel members are better off spending the money for a quality bit that is engineered for use with wood.

A contracter would most likely do better with HSS spiral bits since they are less expensive and stand up to impacts better than carbide. Replacement expense is expected and multiple bits on hand are a better solution in this situation. Home users who work with a lot of MDF may also benefit from the lower replacement cost of these bits.

There is no "One size fits all" solution.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

I have a varied background. This post is not a recommendation- just information on pro's and con's, differences of each, a presentation of that info for people to make there own informed decision. 

My take on this is "WHY?"

There are router bits designed for the speeds of a router to use on wood as a cutting medium and made to pull the shavings away. 

End mills are driven at spindle speed calculations depending on bit diameter, surface speed (sfm) of the cutting medium or:
"*RPM = (3.82 x SFM) / D*". 

The rated SFM is the same for end mills as it is for drill bits. SFM for drill bits for a 1/4" (0.250") drill bit in hardwood is 1500 SFM. So the spindle speed rated for a 1/4" end mill in hardwood is calculated as 22920 rpm. So, that answers the speed rating question. It's a wash.

Impact effects on a carbide end mill are the same as a solid carbide spiral cutter. They are both solid carbide. why assume that they would be different? My experience shows me that the tolerances on metal milling cutters to be to higher tolerances than woodworking equivalences. The tooling tolerances produced by each are "different."

A concern of mine which wasn't brought up is whether the end mill's cutter's flutes, which were designed to carry away metal shavings are adequate to carry away wood shavings at that speed. If not, then you burn up the bit. I don't know that answer, but the flutes on an end mill look similar but shorter than a spiral cutter.

So it still leaves a question in my mind- Why... Why use an end mill to cut wood? A router bit is designed for wood as the medium. It's cutter's angles are designed to maximize quality cutting of that medium. The flutes are designed to carry away wood shavings effectively as not to overheat the bit. End mills cost about the same or more than an equivalent sized spiral cutter router bit. 

I figure an end mill could be used in a pinch, but why? I've never done it, so from someone that has, what are, if any, any "advantages" to using an end mill on wood?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> It's true that Amana sales (see link below) many very nice bits but I just don't buy from them the norm the prices are just about always to high and you need to get over the 35.oo dollar price total to get free shipping from the dealer below, I always try to suggest the best price and shipping ,that can be a deal deal on the bottom line..


In my experience cheapest often isn't best, Bob, especially when it comes to router cutters. I use most of my tools to make a living. An "inexpensive" cutter which doesn't perform well, or which breaks, or which damages work, will almost always cost me more than it's worth - sometimes many times. Fotr that reason an "industrial quality" cutter which performs well and will last me several years (or at least several jobs) makes a lot more sense to me and in this case I'm recommending based on experience of using these cutters. At $35 (GBP £22) for a decent mortise cutter isn't overly expensive in my eyes. I think that it's often a case of you get what you pay for in this world, but as Mike has stated above, _"There is no 'One size fits all' solution."_

Regards

Phil


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## CW1 (Mar 20, 2012)

You have been looking at the wrong endmills. Lay a solid carbide two flute endmill next to a spiral router bit. Try to tell them apart. You can't as they are the same. Setting the speed by SPM is not just for endmills cutting metal. It's for any cutter cutting any material. The harder the material, the more critical speed becomes. This is the reason that many machine shops will only do aluminum. They can do all kinds of stupid crap and get away with it. The usual SPM for carbide cutting wood is generally 5000 SPM. Run the numbers on that. 

CW
Retired machinist


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

CW1 said:


> You have been looking at the wrong endmills. Lay a solid carbide two flute endmill next to a spiral router bit. Try to tell them apart. You can't as they are the same. Setting the speed by SPM is not just for endmills cutting metal. It's for any cutter cutting any material. The harder the material, the more critical speed becomes. This is the reason that many machine shops will only do aluminum. They can do all kinds of stupid crap and get away with it. The usual SPM for carbide cutting wood is generally 5000 SPM. Run the numbers on that.
> 
> CW
> Retired machinist


I have to agree with CW. The advantage of solid carbide end mills is the cost, and being able to find them in surplus outlets/large flea markets.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Willway said:


> I have to agree with CW. The advantage of solid carbide end mills is the cost, and being able to find them in surplus outlets/large flea markets.


try wholesale machine tool outlets...


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