# Planer (thicknesser) snipe



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Ron's (allthunbs) recent thread on portable (lunchbox) thickness planers got me thinking about snipe. I can't recall ever using a thicknesser which didn't snipe to some degree or another (and that even includes a mighty 2 tonne 30in Wadkin RJ I used in the past). It seems that even with the big industrial machines whilst you can set them up to be all but perfect on, say, Sothern Yellow Pine, as soon as you swap to another species like oak the snipe can reappear. I've tried various approaches to this problem. The one which works best for me seems to be "chain feeding" where you feed one piece after another through the machine with the ends touching. This results on snipe at the start of the first piece and the back end of the last - but single-handed there are only so many planks you can feed through before you end up with a log jam on the outfeed side! Has anyone come up with a better approach?

Regards

Phil


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

Outfeed rollers and a lower "collection" table?


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## walowan (Jan 21, 2011)

end snipe is about 99% operator error, especially on a pro machine. Just keep the boards flat to the table and there will be no snipe....


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Not a whole lot You can do. If everything is set-up properly, Your still going to have snipe. The best I found is on the normal sized pieces, push down a bit, but keep the board as level as possible. Going through the feed roller can tip the board, as well as the out feed! That is the basic problem on a sharp one.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

I reworked my (lunchbox) and I get no snipe at all, it's just a simple 3/4" thick board that's bolted down to the base plate, that replace the drop down tables on both sides of the lunchbox .it's 12" wide and about 30" long. 


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Phil P said:


> Ron's (allthunbs) recent thread on portable (lunchbox) thickness planers got me thinking about snipe. I can't recall ever using a thicknesser which didn't snipe to some degree or another (and that even includes a mighty 2 tonne 30in Wadkin RJ I used in the past). It seems that even with the big industrial machines whilst you can set them up to be all but perfect on, say, Sothern Yellow Pine, as soon as you swap to another species like oak the snipe can reappear. I've tried various approaches to this problem. The one which works best for me seems to be "chain feeding" where you feed one piece after another through the machine with the ends touching. This results on snipe at the start of the first piece and the back end of the last - but single-handed there are only so many planks you can feed through before you end up with a log jam on the outfeed side! Has anyone come up with a better approach?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> I reworked my (lunchbox) and I get no snipe at all, it's just a simple 3/4" thick board that's bolted down to the base plate, that replace the drop down tables on both sides of the lunchbox .it's 12" wide and about 30" long.
> 
> ...


Hi Bob,

Is there a Pic of your planer on the forums somewhere or can you post one?

Thank you,
Mike


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## JKV (May 21, 2011)

Hey bob, I think I'm gonna try that. It really souds like it will work. Thanks, Jim


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Mike


Not yet , but I will post one today .it's a little bit tricky to bolt the board down but not to bad once you see how I did it..without putting any new holes in the machine base plate.
I'm also putting on some Digital stuff on it and one of the router tables just for kicks, I love new toys  

Electronic Digital Readout for Portable Planers
Electronic Digital Readout for Portable Planers - Rockler Woodworking Tools

http://www.rockler.com/tech/RTD10000073AC.pdf
+++++
Digital Remote Readout 12"
Amazon.com: Digital Remote Readout 12": Home Improvement

Wixey Remote Digital Readout
Wixey Remote Digital Readout - Rockler Woodworking Tools

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mpbc48 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Is there a Pic of your planer on the forums somewhere or can you post one?
> 
> ...


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> HI Mike
> 
> 
> Not yet , but I will post one today .it's a little bit tricky to bolt the board down but not to bad once you see how I did it..without putting any new holes in the machine base plate.
> ...


Hi Bob,

I look forward to seeing how you did it. I am about to "unwrap" my first planer and I'd like to avoid snipe right out of the gates.

I've been eyeballing all of that digital stuff too. When it comes to new toys, I'll always remain a 5 year old... I love 'em.

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike 

Here's some snapshots, the spade bolt is just a steel pin that's flat on one end and with a hole drilled into it,you can buy one or make one very easy..
It's important to replace the head stop bolt ,don't want the blades to cut up the new base board.. 


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

You are using a piece of ply, to make the inboard, and outboard 1 piece. Also works when You need a very thin piece of wood taken down uniformly and made thinner! This is for Bob


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Bob,

Thank you very much for the pics. That seems like such a logical fix, why don't the mfgs do something like that as a standard practice?

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

You're Welcome

" mfgs do something like that " = I don't know.
I have two boards the short one in the pictures and a longer one that's about 6ft. long that I use for the real thin stock and narrow stock (1/16" to 1/4" thick stock) with a sled that keeps the rollers from dropping down or coming off on the thin stock..runs just on the sides of the sled that way no snipe marks in the stock..I stick the thin stock to the sled with D.S.Tape.. the normal is stock that I cut down on the band saw..to clean up the nasty band saw marks... 


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mpbc48 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thank you very much for the pics. That seems like such a logical fix, why don't the mfgs do something like that as a standard practice?
> 
> Mike


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Matthias over at woodgears has a great explanation about why snipe occurs and how to avoid it.

Causes of planer snipe on small thickness planers


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

gav said:


> Matthias over at woodgears has a great explanation about why snipe occurs and how to avoid it.
> 
> Causes of planer snipe on small thickness planers


Hi Gavin:

You'll also find the explanation (Matthias' as well) on the planer comparison article I posted.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mpbc48 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> Thank you very much for the pics. That seems like such a logical fix, why don't the mfgs do something like that as a standard practice?
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike:

I've been using that philosophy for several years now and I have no improvement. I still have snipe. It is in the flexing of the carriage for the cutter and pinch rollers and I"ve been trying to figure out how to stop the flexing. Matthias has offered a solution but it is not practicable. I use a mix of hardwood (sugar maple) and softwoods, spruce, pine, fir etc. and if you setup for hardwoods you'll have snipe on the softwoods and vice versa. Phil has been experiencing something similar so has most everyone else, I think. The frustrating part is it's only a few thousandths of an inch but just enough to require additional processing to remove. BTW, I've covered most of this in my article _"planer summary."_

What we're looking for is new ideas on fixes or different work arounds - chaining and docking are both already stated.


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Ron,

I was pretty much resigning myself to using the longer board method, but I'm willing to try some of the others to see the difference.

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

It sound like you are one of the few that need to use the long board way, that's to say start with longer stock and just cut off the snipe.. 

==


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mpbc48 said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I was pretty much resigning myself to using the longer board method, but I'm willing to try some of the others to see the difference.
> 
> Mike


Hi Mike:

I think that's what I'm calling "docking." You mill a board over length and "dock" the ends to the final length removing the snipped portion. The alternative is to feed the boards continually. I put one board to the right and "overlap" the next board to the left so the rollers never "drop" off a board. It think it is Phil that called this "chaining." Matthias' method is to put a "wedge" under the hubs of the rollers to stop their flexing. The problem with Matthias method is that you need wedges of different sizes for each thickness you need to mill.

What I'm looking for and I think all of us are, is to find a method of "adjusting" the rollers or a more effective way to eliminate snipe.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

allthunbs said:


> The alternative is to feed the boards continually. I put one board to the right and "overlap" the next board to the left so the rollers never "drop" off a board. It think it is Phil that called this "chaining."


What I mean by "chain feeding" is where each board fed through is butted up to the end of the previous board which is fed through. The problem with placing boards side by side in the way that you do is that unless your planer has segmented anti-kickback pawls you are always running the risk that one of the boards (generally the thinner one) can be picked up by the cutter head and propelled back at you. This will probably only ever occur during the first couple of passes where the timber has noticeable differences in thickness. After that it's a loss likely

Regards

Phil


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Phil P said:


> What I mean by "chain feeding" is where each board fed through is butted up to the end of the previous board which is fed through. The problem with placing boards side by side in the way that you do is that unless your planer has segmented anti-kickback pawls you are always running the risk that one of the boards (generally the thinner one) can be picked up by the cutter head and propelled back at you. This will probably only ever occur during the first couple of passes where the timber has noticeable differences in thickness. After that it's a loss likely
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil


Thanks for the observation Phil. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for saving me dodging a propelled plank ;-) That's one of the reasons that we're having this discussion, so everything - the good, the bad and the ugly - is noted.

So, if we refine our list of options:

1. chaining - where the end of one board is butted up to the end of the previous board

2. "pairing" - where the end of one board is placed beside the end of the previous board so that the pinch rollers don't have a chance to drop - the danger here is that a thinner board could be kicked back out of the planer until all thicknesses are equal

3. docking - where the end of a board is cut off, or "docked," once the final milled dimension is achieved

4. wedging - Matthias' method of adding stabilizing "wedges" under the roller bushings to remove the flexing that is causing the snipe. The downside is the array of wedges that are needed.

Any other suggestions, methods????

There is another situation that is noted by Bob3J and that is to remove the infeed and outfeed tables and the bottom plate and replace them with a single large piece of material. I have done this with 1" MDF with a laminate top with no change.


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## TonyBal (May 29, 2011)

[

*There is another situation that is noted by Bob3J and that is to remove the infeed and outfeed tables and the bottom plate and replace them with a single large piece of material. I have done this with 1" MDF with a laminate top with no change.[/*QUOTE]

Has anyone else tried this method with success? I was going to give it a try until I saw this. What a buzz kill!!!:angry:


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Ron,

I'm just thinking, with number 4, could you use rectangular steel bar for the wedges?

It would seem that you could get some standard thicknesses relatively inexpensive.

Depending upon the range of thicknesses you commonly use, you could get by with just a handfull of bars.










Snipe wouldn't matter until you reach your last pass, which is when you would use the wedges.

Mike


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

mpbc48 said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I'm just thinking, with number 4, could you use rectangular steel bar for the wedges?
> 
> ...


Hi Mike: 

I think the steel bar would be overkill. I would think just a series of paired wooden sticks, each pair sized for a specific cut is all that is needed. I wouldn't want to get steel bars too close to the planer knives. I supposed brass would be better but still, overkill.

Ron


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Ron,

I sure didn't think about the potential damage that metal could cause. Since I have not used mine yet, I'm wondering what kind of pressure is exerted. Would a hardwood like oak, maintain dimension under that pressure over multiple uses?

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

You lost me on the bars ??? I must be slow today..

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mpbc48 said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I'm just thinking, with number 4, could you use rectangular steel bar for the wedges?
> 
> ...


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Bob,

I was thinking about using the bars as stabilizing "wedges" like in Ron's post, #21, #4 from above; 

---quote------------------
"4. wedging - Matthias' method of adding stabilizing "wedges" under the roller bushings to remove the flexing that is causing the snipe. The downside is the array of wedges that are needed."
---end quote--------------

My thought was that unless you plane a lot of odd thicknesses, just a few of the bars "wedges" would give you all the common thicknesses. 

Never having used a thickness planer before, I am speculating that you wouldn't need a bunch of the bars "wedges".

For instance; Say you have 6/4 lumber that you want to plane down to 4/4.

Since you don't have to care about snipe until you get near your final thickness, you would only need the 1" bar. Let there be snipe until the thickness of the snipe is at 1". Then insert the bars "wedges" and plane to the final thickness. The blades wouldn't start removing material until past the snipe (which is the 1" thickness you want) and would then plane the higher part to 1".

If the "wedge" system works, it seems like this would be an easy way to have a final board without snipe.

Mike


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

mpbc48 said:


> It would seem that you could get some standard thicknesses relatively inexpensive.
> 
> Depending upon the range of thicknesses you commonly use, you could get by with just a handfull of bars.


I suppose you could add fine adjustment by using steel feeler/shim strip from the auto store as well. Comes in thou or milli metric thicknesses



mpbc48 said:


> Snipe wouldn't matter until you reach your last pass, which is when you would use the wedges.


You obviously haven't seen the amount of snipe some planers can generate!......

Regards

Phil


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Phil P said:


> You obviously haven't seen the amount of snipe some planers can generate!......
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil


Hi Phil,

I wondered about that and figured a way that should work with larger amounts of snipe. My speculation on this is in post #27.

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

That's for the feed back I don't read most of the post from Ron..

But I don't get it, the rollers are needed to pull the stock in and to keep it down to the base plate..the rollers must float or the stock will take off like a shot..a one way roller thing the way I see it..


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mpbc48 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> I was thinking about using the bars as stabilizing "wedges" like in Ron's post, #21, #4 from above;
> 
> ...


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## gav (Oct 12, 2009)

Hi Bob,
Perhaps if you actually read this article and watch the video, it might become more clear to you.
Causes of planer snipe on small thickness planers

Matthias is an engineer and I tend to trust his mechanical knowledge.

Of course if you have a planer that has 4 screw risers, then it's unlikely that you'll have the problems that others are talking about.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

gav said:


> Of course if you have a planer that has 4 screw risers, then it's unlikely that you'll have the problems that others are talking about.


Hi Gavin:

I have the SteelCity 40200 with four screws and I still have the problem. 

Ron


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## Chris Roeder (Oct 3, 2010)

Lift up slightly on the outfeed as the board approches the end of the cut or extend your out feed table if you have room


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

roedercm said:


> Lift up slightly on the outfeed as the board approches the end of the cut or extend your out feed table if you have room


Hi Chris:

Yup, thank you. That works for some planers, especially the big ones. In this instance, it actually increases the snipe slightly. It is actually in the manuals for some of the vendors "as a remedy for some woods" but in actual fact it increases the flex in the carriage thus making the snipe worse.

That said, thanks for speaking up.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Digital item now install on the Grizzy planer ,plus a shot of my saw horses, fold up type..


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Bob,

I love the new digital toy.

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Mike


Thanks, got to have new toys now and then..

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mpbc48 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> I love the new digital toy.
> 
> Mike


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

As they say, the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys 

Cheers

Peter


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Peter 

Very true hahahahahaha LOL..got one more toy to put on the router in the router table, but that one should be easy unlike the Grizzy planer, like they say take on the hard jobs 1st. than the easy ones.. 

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istracpsboss said:


> As they say, the only difference between men and boys is the price of their toys
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter


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