# Dust Collection Finally!



## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Well Tom (my son) and I have the dust collector set up and working. This is only a 1hp green Harbor Freight unit with a few mods. With the modifications I made it moves a heck of a lot of air. The suction is so strong that it jerked the drum over when Tom put his hand over the hose. We had to put a ratchet strap around the drum to stop that. We will put a bungee cord around it with a hook and an eye bolt to fix it permanently. We used the Dust Right fittings for the 30 gallon 'Lab Pack' catch can/drum (from Amazon), and they work great. I wish they made these 'lab pack' drums in white, but with a strong light behind the drum you can see the swirling action very well and the swirl continues all the way to the bottom, as it should. The blower is mounted horizontally with lag bolts through the holes for the wheels and vented strait out the wall. We have a over-sized dryer vent hood outside to keep out the rare west Texas rain. We saw absolutely no evidence of any fine dust outside, on the side of the building, or on the ground, or inside the dust hood itself. I will run another test with some carpet tape inside the hood and see if it collects anything. 

We used all Dust Right fittings with the quick disconnect handle kit. We have 21ft. of the Dust Right hose, and it will reach every machine in the shop. I still have to order 2 of the 2-1/2in. adapters for the band saw and the router table, a couple more of the 4in. quick disconnect adapters, and an elbow for the top of the catch can/drum. 

One thing is certain, dust collector fittings are to darned expensive. This system has cost over $350 and we still need another $60 worth of fittings. That will be almost $200 in fittings and hose alone from Rockler. Now that I know it will work I would like to have the floor sweeping attachment, but that thing is $46 and we have a push broom.

I hope you can view the photos OK. They are dark because I did not reset the camera to auto mode. It was set for for full sunlight and no flash.


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## Big Steve (Feb 12, 2012)

Nice job! Yes, DC connections and hose add up!


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## WurliTzerwilly (Jun 9, 2013)

Glad it works for you. 

I have two issues with my setup:
It's difficult to vent outside because the main structure is pre-cast concrete sections and the only other way would be in the roof area where there are wood panels, but the vent would either have to be pointing at my neighbor, or pointing at our own home, so ugly for both one of us!

I have a Shopsmith DC3300 dust collector which is designed to be used with its own bag (I have the 48" extended bag), so it wouldn't be easy to vent outside anyway, but I have all the fittings to connect a 4" inlet and run that across the roof of the shop.

I wonder if there would be any point in attaching an extra can in the inlet line and try to get the particles to drop in that, then use the DC3300 collection bag as a secondary. The dust collector on its own does a good job, but until I connect it to a long 4" hose, with blast gates at the machines, I don't know how good a job it will do over distance.

What do you think?


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## adot45 (Feb 6, 2013)

Hi Dick, Your pictures are fine and I like how you have it set up, good job. I have the same HF DC on my table saw and plan on adding a separator of some sort. One thing that struck me about the HF unit is that it's really quiet. It sounds like the Rockler separator lid is working well with your setup. Thanks for the pictures.


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

Dick,
what mods did you do to the DC besides vent outside and mount on the wall?
I have the green 1 Hp HF DC venting outside connected to my scroll saw using a Thein type separator, but left the DC on the floor, works pretty good.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Very nice setup. I've spent about the same for my setups (one in the shop, second in the garage for jointer and planer). I have the collection bag hooked up to the blower inside the shed because I need AC here in the desert summer and heat in the winter. Blowers remove a lot of hot/cold air and the collection bags keep that heated/cooled air inside. I think you said something about increasing the air flow in that blower, and I wonder how you did that? My setups aren't sucking near enough air to suit me.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Tom,
Here in the high desert, AC isn't needed. But heat is during the winter. My HF DC is also vented outside. Since it only runs when the TS is running, I've not noticed any heat loss. AC might be a different story. However, I feel that any heat sucked up by the HF DC is partially dissipated in the 35 gal in line collector. And, I don't really think my hoses retain a lot of heat, either,:laugh:
The planer and SCMS and router tables are on smaller Jet DCs using a collection bag.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

The main question seems to be about the mods. First of all with any new piece of equipment, run the motor long enough for the motor to get warm with no load, we just placed a piece of cardboard over the inlet and let it run for an hour while we built the frame. The only real 'mod' is to remove the baffels in the inlet and the outlet. That in itself is about a 30% increase in air flow. We then sealed both ends with black Permatex RTV gasket sealent.We have about 2' of vertical lift above the seperator, so they are not needed at all. We removed the flapper vent from the dryer vent hood also, but left the bird/rodent screen attached.

We mounted this on a 2x4 frame to stop the noise from transmiting to the building metal. It is quiet, you just don't hear it at all with a piece of equipment running.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> Very nice setup. I've spent about the same for my setups (one in the shop, second in the garage for jointer and planer). I have the collection bag hooked up to the blower inside the shed because I need AC here in the desert summer and heat in the winter. Blowers remove a lot of hot/cold air and the collection bags keep that heated/cooled air inside. I think you said something about increasing the air flow in that blower, and I wonder how you did that? My setups aren't sucking near enough air to suit me.


Tom I think Gene is right on heat and A/C loss. The most you are running cutting operations is about 10% of the time. The rest of the time you are doing assembly or finishing. We have almost the same climate conditions here in west Texas as you do, but I have no idea how we are going to heat a metal building. We may just have to watch FOOTBALL on cold days!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hi, Dick; nice job! I
m not sure anyone else has ever mentioned the concept of simply abandoning the bags, and piping straight outdoors, using a separator of course(?).
One consideration for us Northerners (less so for us in the Pacific N.W.) is the fact that if you exhaust outdoors you _must have_ make up air coming into the shop to counteract the drop in air-pressure in the shop, ie efficiency of the DC.
That's the fly in the ointment; the cold incoming air in Winter will be most unwelcome.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Following on Mike's comment (another thread) re doing his own research , I just found this item on make-up air for the fireplace...
A non-commercial service in support of responsible home heating with wood - The Outdoor Air Myth Exposed
To say I'm gobsmacked would be an understatement.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Hi, Dick; nice job! I
> m not sure anyone else has ever mentioned the concept of simply abandoning the bags, and piping straight outdoors, using a separator of course(?).
> One consideration for us Northerners (less so for us in the Pacific N.W.) is the fact that if you exhaust outdoors you _must have_ make up air coming into the shop to counteract the drop in air-pressure in the shop, ie efficiency of the DC.
> That's the fly in the ointment; the cold incoming air in Winter will be most unwelcome.


Dan I lived in the north most of my life. I know how miserable it is to open the garage door on the shop and have ice freeze on the concrete floor in a just couple of minutes. My shop was 40'x60' and cement block. We heated with a converted 275 gallon oil tank as a log burner for several years. I finally bought a 275,000 btu oil torpedo heater and it worked well (fuel oil was cheap then). With all that in mind, you are only going to be running the DC during cutting operations, which on average is about 10% of your shop time.

As for a cheap remote on and off setup you can check this out on Amazon. I know it is only 13amp rated but will work for most 1-2 hp 110v dust collectors, if you can keep up with the remote. There is even one reviewer using it for his dust collector!!! 

Amazon.com: New Indoor Wireless Remote Control Power Switch Outlet: Electronics


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

Good idea on removing the baffles (grilles) in the inlet and the outlet, they are not needed with a separator ahead of the blower. I just never thought of the amount of restriction to air flow they caused, was the difference in flow afterwards really that noticeable? I think I will remove mine on both of my collectors, I have the 1Hp green and the 2Hp from Harbor Freight. :lol:


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## WurliTzerwilly (Jun 9, 2013)

Willway said:


> As for a cheap remote on and off setup you can check this out on Amazon. I know it is only 13amp rated but will work for most 1-2 hp 110v dust collectors, if you can keep up with the remote. There is even one reviewer using it for his dust collector!!!
> 
> Amazon.com: New Indoor Wireless Remote Control Power Switch Outlet: Electronics


FWIW Remote controls for waste disposals work well for dust collectors. I have one that I can carry in my pocket, or hang up in its little cradle.


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## whimsofchaz (Jun 6, 2013)

Willway said:


> Well Tom (my son) and I have the dust collector set up and working. This is only a 1hp green Harbor Freight unit with a few mods. With the modifications I made it moves a heck of a lot of air. The suction is so strong that it jerked the drum over when Tom put his hand over the hose. We had to put a ratchet strap around the drum to stop that. We will put a bungee cord around it with a hook and an eye bolt to fix it permanently. We used the Dust Right fittings for the 30 gallon 'Lab Pack' catch can/drum (from Amazon), and they work great. I wish they made these 'lab pack' drums in white, but with a strong light behind the drum you can see the swirling action very well and the swirl continues all the way to the bottom, as it should. The blower is mounted horizontally with lag bolts through the holes for the wheels and vented strait out the wall. We have a over-sized dryer vent hood outside to keep out the rare west Texas rain. We saw absolutely no evidence of any fine dust outside, on the side of the building, or on the ground, or inside the dust hood itself. I will run another test with some carpet tape inside the hood and see if it collects anything.
> 
> We used all Dust Right fittings with the quick disconnect handle kit. We have 21ft. of the Dust Right hose, and it will reach every machine in the shop. I still have to order 2 of the 2-1/2in. adapters for the band saw and the router table, a couple more of the 4in. quick disconnect adapters, and an elbow for the top of the catch can/drum.
> 
> ...


Willway: Thanks for sending me the note. You have built exactly what I wanted to build. It is perfect for my small space. If you have the part number on the Harbor Freight piece I sure could use that. Man I have been thinking this through for weeks and just couldn't find the blower piece, but you have. You have no idea how much this gratifies me because I knew it could be done. Thanks Dick 

:shout: (YEAH)


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*Baffle restriction.*



tvman44 said:


> Good idea on removing the baffles (grilles) in the inlet and the outlet, they are not needed with a separator ahead of the blower. I just never thought of the amount of restriction to air flow they caused, was the difference in flow afterwards really that noticeable? I think I will remove mine on both of my collectors, I have the 1Hp green and the 2Hp from Harbor Freight. :lol:


Bob with the 1/4 wide X 3/4 approximate grid spacing of the plastic baffle on the inlet and the outlet you loose at least 30% of the air flow. Before removing the it would blow sawdust around the floor, after removing it would blow the sawdust all the way out the garage door about 20' away. It really surprised how much air it would move.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

whimsofchaz said:


> Willway: Thanks for sending me the note. You have built exactly what I wanted to build. It is perfect for my small space. If you have the part number on the Harbor Freight piece I sure could use that. Man I have been thinking this through for weeks and just couldn't find the blower piece, but you have. You have no idea how much this gratifies me because I knew it could be done. Thanks Dick
> 
> :shout: (YEAH)


Chuck this dust collector is on sale now for $127.99, and if you look you can find a 20% discount coupon for this month. That would drop the price to $102, a lot better buy than I got.

Portable Dust Collector - 13 Gallon


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Dick, you have the same set up I recently put in and it works great!


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*Remote.*



WurliTzerwilly said:


> FWIW Remote controls for waste disposals work well for dust collectors. I have one that I can carry in my pocket, or hang up in its little cradle.


Alan there are even a less expensive options on Amazon, you just have to dig a little. A full 2HP induction motor running current at 120v is only 12.5 amps, that would be one half that on your your power system. Almost all of the remotes are rated at 13amp at 120v.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Marco said:


> Dick, you have the same set up I recently put in and it works great!


Jim I think I saw your comment on your setup on a post a while back. Did you remove the baffles on yours?


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## adot45 (Feb 6, 2013)

I have that green HF unit and after I hooked it up it moved so much sawdust and shavings I couldn't believe it.....for about 5 seconds. The inlet baffle was completely clogged, I removed the baffle and restarted it and it was off to the races again....for about 10 seconds. The outlet baffle was completely clogged. I removed the outlet baffle and it has been terrific ever since. The unit was on sale and then they sent me a coupon, maybe even two, anyway I ended up paying $115.00 for the unit and $6.99 shipping right to my door. I think the key here was the shavings part, sawdust alone probably would not clog it up like that. The grids are pretty thick though it seems to me.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

> was the difference in flow afterwards really that noticeable


In my case, yes....


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Willway said:


> Jim I think I saw your comment on your setup on a post a while back. Did you remove the baffles on yours?


I went and looked because I couldn't remember.... no both baffles are there but they will be removed!

I did end up putting a Y at the seperator with a short hose going to the often used miter saw. It works well with good suction at either side of the Y. I use a metal gate on one side and a plastic gate on the other do to mixed reviews on both. I took the metal gate apart and gasget sealed it and use a thin shim on the plastic gate for enough resistance to keep it open.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

We will sweep the floor up into a pile (probably Thursday) and place some carpet tape inside the dryer vent to see just how much of the fine dust is going outside. It should be a very large pile because of all the table saw plywood work last weekend. I have bought a 'Big Gulp' scoop to mount under my old 1972 Grizzly 1022 contractors saw. *But it ain't there yet!* That will be another challenge to install it, and seal the saw up. That will have to be in another post.
I believe the shape of these "lab pack' drums enhances the cyclonic action of the Dust Right fittings. I have some very sticky carpet tape that should catch some of the fine dust if there is any.

By the way if anyone needs a bag for one of these 13gal. HF dust collectors, drop me a PM, I sure don't need it.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

*Seperator.*



jw2170 said:


> In my case, yes....


James did you get your seperator set up? I know you mentioned collecting the parts for it a while back.


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## markristow (May 30, 2011)

Hi Dick
Is there a possibility of some photos of what you did inside the drum. I have made most of my fittings myself using 110mm sewer pipe and elbows. I made adaptors by cutting pieces of wood to the correct size with a hole saw and gluing in place with epoxy.
Thanks
Mark


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

markristow said:


> Hi Dick
> Is there a possibility of some photos of what you did inside the drum. I have made most of my fittings myself using 110mm sewer pipe and elbows. I made adaptors by cutting pieces of wood to the correct size with a hole saw and gluing in place with epoxy.
> Thanks
> Mark


Howdy Mark, from out here in west Texas. The layout for the fittings is exactly what is shown on Rockler's website. the link is below. It is simply 2 elbows turned back to back.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25225&site=ROCKLER


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

Today I removed the baffles on my 1Hp Green HF DC and was confident there would be a definite increase in flow after I looked at the grilles. There has to be 30% blockage from each of the grilles and they are not needed in my shop with the Thein style separator ahead of the DC, turned it on afterwards and there was a increase in flow. Kind of wish I had taken some measurements before and after just for my own curiosity, if I was not so lazy I could put them back to make some measurements but why mess with success. 
Next will tackle the 2Hp DC and do the same thing, wish the 2Hp would be just as easy but if I remember correctly the input grille is metal and will have to be cut, don't know if there is a grille on the output or not.


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## Gene Howe (Jul 10, 2007)

Will, 
There is just miniscule amounts of dust that escapes my 35 gal. trash can collector. I hope you find the same. 
As to the bags, I use them to cover a band saw and scroll saw. 



Willway said:


> We will sweep the floor up into a pile (probably Thursday) and place some carpet tape inside the dryer vent to see just how much of the fine dust is going outside. It should be a very large pile because of all the table saw plywood work last weekend. I have bought a 'Big Gulp' scoop to mount under my old 1972 Grizzly 1022 contractors saw. *But it ain't there yet!* That will be another challenge to install it, and seal the saw up. That will have to be in another post.
> I believe the shape of these "lab pack' drums enhances the cyclonic action of the Dust Right fittings. I have some very sticky carpet tape that should catch some of the fine dust if there is any.
> 
> By the way if anyone needs a bag for one of these 13gal. HF dust collectors, drop me a PM, I sure don't need it.


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## WurliTzerwilly (Jun 9, 2013)

Hello Gene.

I see from your avatar that you have a MkV Shopsmith. Have you fitted the Power Pro yet?
If so, ho do you find it?


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## RogerInColorado (Aug 29, 2013)

*Can you clarify the mods?*



Willway said:


> The main question seems to be about the mods. First of all with any new piece of equipment, run the motor long enough for the motor to get warm with no load, we just placed a piece of cardboard over the inlet and let it run for an hour while we built the frame. The only real 'mod' is to remove the baffels in the inlet and the outlet. That in itself is about a 30% increase in air flow. We then sealed both ends with black Permatex RTV gasket sealent.We have about 2' of vertical lift above the seperator, so they are not needed at all. We removed the flapper vent from the dryer vent hood also, but left the bird/rodent screen attached.
> 
> We mounted this on a 2x4 frame to stop the noise from transmiting to the building metal. It is quiet, you just don't hear it at all with a piece of equipment running.


I'm not understanding your mods. You said removing the inlet and outlet baffles gave you a 30% increase in air flow, but I don't think I understand what you call the baffles. Can you clarify?


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

RogerInColorado said:


> I'm not understanding your mods. You said removing the inlet and outlet baffles gave you a 30% increase in air flow, but I don't think I understand what you call the baffles. Can you clarify?


Not really meant to be a baffle (def- a device used to restrain the flow of a fluid, gas, or loose material)... HF and others use a rough screen kind of affair to try to prevent large pieces from entering the impeller housing and striking the impeller. Because some end up restricting flow... in that sense, I guess that resembles a baffle. If anyone takes those (protective) guards out... Willis id what most here would have done by adding a separator before the impeller housing to provide that function.

Great job Willis!!!! 

+1 on those DC fitting's adding up quick! That blind sided me also me also. That trying to get dust hoods working better. 

Dan- Great reading on that. I thought maybe... but that was very clear and concise. Winter here is not as rough as more north, but if gets cold. I guess there's a trade off somewhere. I haven't figured out what I feel more important yet.

On "why not scrap the idea of bags..." That's were I'm going with mine. Still filtered, but by other means. With mine, I'm getting too much back-pressure with those filter bags. Mine looks like it is going to explode one of these days soon. Saving up for a big cartridge filter, but waiting on coming back from vacation before ordering.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

MAFoElffen said:


> Not really meant to be a baffle (def- a device used to restrain the flow of a fluid, gas, or loose material)... HF and others use a rough screen kind of affair to try to prevent large pieces from entering the impeller housing and striking the impeller. Because some end up restricting flow... in that sense, I guess that resembles a baffle. If anyone takes those (protective) guards out... Willis id what most here would have done by adding a separator before the impeller housing to provide that function.
> 
> Great job Willis!!!!
> 
> ...


Mike cartridge filters can be very, very expensive. They also plug up rather quickly with very fine dust leading to the same back pressure problems you are now having. You can prolong the life of them by attaching a electric vibrator to the frame, to shake them down when the DC isn't running.

My choice would be another option. It is high efficiency washable furnace filters in a box of some kind. There are electrostatic units that work entirely on air flow. If you have room for bags you have room for a nice cabinet type box with 1 or 2 of these in it. The are lifetime warranteed and have a great level of filtration, and not very expensive compared to a cartridge filter. I think these are rated at 2 micron (MERV rating of 8), and only $49 each. Take a look, this is only one company of many.

Washable Air Filter Specifications - Washable Furnace Filters by Air-Care-Filters.com


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## Woodentoolman (Aug 30, 2013)

I just exhaust mine straight outdoors with no problems. Have for years.


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## tvman44 (Jun 25, 2013)

I too prefer to exhaust outside.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Willway said:


> Mike cartridge filters can be very, very expensive. They also plug up rather quickly with very fine dust leading to the same back pressure problems you are now having. You can prolong the life of them by attaching a electric vibrator to the frame, to shake them down when the DC isn't running.
> 
> My choice would be another option. It is high efficiency washable furnace filters in a box of some kind. There are electrostatic units that work entirely on air flow. If you have room for bags you have room for a nice cabinet type box with 1 or 2 of these in it. The are lifetime warranteed and have a great level of filtration, and not very expensive compared to a cartridge filter. I think these are rated at 2 micron (MERV rating of 8), and only $49 each. Take a look, this is only one company of many.
> 
> Washable Air Filter Specifications - Washable Furnace Filters by Air-Care-Filters.com


Hmm... running fine explosive dust thru a high-voltage charged filter? I'm not thinking that is the smartest idea I've ever heard, Dick. Might want to rethink that one a bit. 

Exhausting outdoors may be OK if you don't have heating /AC, otherwise could really defeat the purpose... and get very expensive!


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> Hmm... running fine explosive dust thru a high-voltage charged filter? I'm not thinking that is the smartest idea I've ever heard, Dick. Might want to rethink that one a bit.
> 
> Exhausting outdoors may be OK if you don't have heating /AC, otherwise could really defeat the purpose... and get very expensive!


Duane these are not an electrically charged filter. What static charge is created is created by the air moving through it, about like running a comb through your hair. Surely if this is UL approved for in home use it would be safe. I know for a fact they are considered safe for paper dust, which can be very explosive.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

*Mythbuster- Fact Or Fiction?*



Dmeadows said:


> Hmm... running fine explosive dust thru a high-voltage charged filter? I'm not thinking that is the smartest idea I've ever heard, Dick. Might want to rethink that one a bit.
> 
> Exhausting outdoors may be OK if you don't have heating /AC, otherwise could really defeat the purpose... and get very expensive!


Remember me doing research in the other thread? One of the things I happened upon and keeps coming up here is th risk of a dust explosion in a hobby shop...

Some of the info I went through was from OSHA, NFPA and some of the industrial references such as "The Dust Collection Technical Handbook." So not to bore you:








That is just an extract from page 69 on just the ignition and explosibility data of wood dust and wood type dust. (Data for other materials there also.) Notice that a dust explosion one of the things that has to happen for those conditions to occur is the size of the particles, the weight and dispersment of those particles in a cloud. ...So the risk of a dust explosion from wood type particles is greater from finely broken down processed wood products such as paper dust, where the particles are smaller.

I sidetracked my focus on 2 dust explosions in Lumber mills in BC, Canada... The explosions were not in dust collection systems... Seems the greater risk is from fine dust that has settled, then later stirred up and ignited. That is where OSHA and the NFPA focuses on getting cleaned up for the prevention of... Those 2 agencies also recommend dust collectors and dust collection to prevent dust clouds from forming and occurring in open space...

In wood dust collection, didn't we figure out that there was more a risk from something hitting something and causing a spark, that then ignited and causing a smoldering fire risk in a dust bin of wood shavings? That makes more sense to me. That seems a suggestion for the TV Show "Myth Busters" to test.

Flat filters- Looked into that. Would required about two 20" by 20" pleated filters about 4" thick to equal the same filter area of one round pleated filter cartridge. By the time I figured out how many filters of what type I would need. The cost was actually less for the cartridge type and the footprint smaller with a cartridge. People experience with both found that cleaning a cartridge is easier and those more suited to cleaning woodworking type of dust out of than flat filters. ...And besides, you are not going to try to have the flow directly through a filter without some type of separation. A cartridge design makes more sense for design. Although a normal flow cartridge filter would make more sense reverse flow cartridge filter... but I can't find an environmental filter that type, size and rating that is affordable. Those are commercial use (larger than I am tall, 6-8 of them, mounted in gallery in the top of a cyclone you could fit a D-8 CAT into). 

Even badly clogged, there is still less restriction than a filter bag. Remember you are taking about about a comparison of filter area in a filter bag at 35 sq. ft. and over 274 sq feet of filtration in a cartridge filter. I can remember 33 years ago working for a trucking company where I had to wash paper air filters to clean them. Present prices for a large truck filter is over $150 each. More than an environmental filter of the same size, but only fitlers down to 10 microns. My goal is 0.5 microns, but with less restriction. Prices on those are around $100. Makes some sense to me.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

MIke, the difference I see, is most DC hose and system are designed to prevent static discharge. This type filter is designed to generate static. Whether that is enough to ignite air borne dust I don't know. I'd think twice about it myself. I agree it would be less likely to ignite dust than an open flame. However still not sure we should intentionally increase the risk, however small it may be. And at 2 micron, the filtering isn't that good anyway. Also, although its washable, it would have to be quite dry before it could be reinstalled. This would require either duplicate filter media or long down time to change the filter. My gut feeling is this would be needed frequently.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> MIke, the difference I see, is most DC hose and system are designed to prevent static discharge. This type filter is designed to generate static. Whether that is enough to ignite air borne dust I don't know. I'd think twice about it myself. I agree it would be less likely to ignite dust than an open flame. However still not sure we should intentionally increase the risk, however small it may be. And at 2 micron, the filtering isn't that good anyway. Also, although its washable, it would have to be quite dry before it could be reinstalled. This would require either duplicate filter media or long down time to change the filter. My gut feeling is this would be needed frequently.


My second ex wife (another story altogether) when she was 40 got pnuemonia, then was suddenly allergic to everything. We had to have our ducts cleaned, a new furnace and A/c, with electrically charged filters, that we cleaned in the dishwasher.

I know the filters he is talking about and they are not the same. The ones he is talking about creates a static charge on it's own. Neither were designed for wood and woodworking. I see your reasoning Duane:


> _"Why create a static charge in a system where you are told a static charge is dangerous?"_


Something for us to think about, eh?


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

MAFoElffen said:


> I know the filters he is talking about and they are not the same. The ones he is talking about creates a static charge on it's own. Neither were designed for wood and woodworking. I see your reasoning Duane:


Yes, I understand that, but static electricity is static electricity no matter the source! Also the filter would have to be dry because dust would stick to the moisture otherwise! I agree they were not designed for wood dust. But then, wouldn't be the first time I've used something for other than it's intended purpose. Sometimes they even work reasonably well:haha:.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Dmeadows said:


> Yes, I understand that, but static electricity is static electricity no matter the source! Also the filter would have to be dry because dust would stick to the moisture otherwise! I agree they were not designed for wood dust. But then, wouldn't be the first time I've used something for other than it's intended purpose. Sometimes they even work reasonably well:haha:.


Sorry, I didn't explain and tie it together. I will now. The whole expense layout for the electrostatic filters for my Ex was "*not*" that they filtered better, but that they would kill dust mites (small living organisms). I don't see attracting particles to a filter working well for woodworking dust collection applications. Besides your concerns, in woodworking dust collection at the filter, you try to let dust and shavings "separate" from suspension in the air before the filter, settle into somewhere that it collects to... and have somewhat clean air without those suspended particles flow through the filters... so it doesn't clog up so fast. In a house, the intakes aren't collecting concentrated particles. They take the full flow of the air (un-concentrated particles) through them without worrying about separation beforehand. Being designed differently, they are rated for collecting particles and how much particles they retain in weight. Where in our application (woodworking dust collection), it would be great if the filters we used for that filtered, but instead repelled particles instead of retaining them in the filter.

(Those are designed to clog. The retained particles form a film, that then is used to help in filtering further particles. As it does that the resistance goes up, which would work against a collection application.) 

I still think flat 20" x 20" filters are a logical course for a 20" box fan... as an air filter hanging from the ceiling. That is where my dust cloud formed (pre-dc attempts), where fine bypass dust forms now. Besides, in the summer, the air movement might make it feel cooler. (And that cloud is actually the bigger risk for a dust explosion, compared to inside a dust collection environment.)


> But then, wouldn't be the first time I've used something for other than it's intended purpose.


LOL! Me too. We try. It always seems like it would work at the time...


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

And back to what I was saying about dust explosions... 

This is a slide from Work Safe BC on dust explosion risk education in Sawmills:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks, hadn't really considered that it only runs occasionally during cuts. Putting the bag outside really appeals to me and would allow me to compact my DC setup a bit more. More room for shelves or a cabinet. You guys are really smart! Tom


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## AnvilJack (May 4, 2014)

Great thread, gentlemen. Lot's of help and learning here. Thanks.


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