# Glue up suggestion



## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I know several can recommend the better way of gluing this carcass up. Thought I would try to do it right the first time. The pic shows a bunch of clamps in the spots needed in this dry fit. The 2 sides are being glued to the face frame and the skeleton.

A separate question is a good lubricant for the wooden draw slides and glides that I can get locally to use. Thank you.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I'd just use Johnsons paste wax if you got it...

Most of your clamps should be front to back..


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

I keep telling the wife that you can't (I) have too many clamps!


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I sold some a couple months ago.. no reason to let them waste space in the shop, plus I was looking for s boat...let one hobby pay for another...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Thanks, for the tips, have the paste wax.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

If you have a pocket hole lig you can skip the clamps and glue and have it done in less time and it will be as strong if not stronger. There is a lot of end grain involved that doesn't hold glue that well.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

It will hold fine with glue and clamps. Pockets would be a lot of excessive work with no gain...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

I would beg to differ. Pocket holes can be done in less than a minute per hole start to finish. To hold the face frame on would take 10 minutes tops. To hold the bottom to the sides 10 minutes. To build the face frame could be done in 20 minutes. I doubt that gluing the complete cabinet could be done in 30 minutes or less. If it could commercial shops wouldn't use pocket holes. If you're building something that will be passed down from generation to generation then yeah glue it and make it out of some exotic wood and do nice jointery (not using a jig for dovetails). If you're building a nice piece of furniture for everyday use then do it the easiest way possible. Anything else will cause frustration and can quickly end an otherwise enjoyable hobby. There was an article years ago in Fine woodworking about Norm Abrams and his use of crude tools like a circular saw when he built furniture. I would never want to go up against Norm in a contest of skill. There is a time and place for everything. For those that have never used a pocket hole jig go to the Kreg website and learn what could be the most important thing in woodworking that you are likely to come across.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

You can differ , but it doesn't change my mind...

I use pocket screws for cabinet face frames, jigs for the shop but not for furniture pieces..

If the builder prefers pockets, but all means use them...

I use pocket screws..


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Commercial shops use frameless and edge banders... some shops use pocket screws and some dont. They just staple and screw the box together...

Norn is Norm... many agree , many dont..

Herloom..... how do you know it is or isn't a Herloom piece?


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

mgmine said:


> I would beg to differ. Pocket holes can be done in less than a minute per hole start to finish. To hold the face frame on would take 10 minutes tops. To hold the bottom to the sides 10 minutes. To build the face frame could be done in 20 minutes. I doubt that gluing the complete cabinet could be done in 30 minutes or less. If it could commercial shops wouldn't use pocket holes. If you're building something that will be passed down from generation to generation then yeah glue it and make it out of some exotic wood and do nice jointery (not using a jig for dovetails). If you're building a nice piece of furniture for everyday use then do it the easiest way possible. Anything else will cause frustration and can quickly end an otherwise enjoyable hobby. There was an article years ago in Fine woodworking about Norm Abrams and his use of crude tools like a circular saw when he built furniture. I would never want to go up against Norm in a contest of skill. There is a time and place for everything. For those that have never used a pocket hole jig go to the Kreg website and learn what could be the most important thing in woodworking that you are likely to come across.


If you break up the post it would be much easier to respond...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

mgmine said:


> If you have a pocket hole lig you can skip the clamps and glue and have it done in less time and it will be as strong if not stronger. There is a lot of end grain involved that doesn't hold glue that well.


I have the Kreg system and have used it extensively for "Shop Built" shop items and agree it is a quick joint and very strong. It is my go to for a quick something for the shop plus if you don't glue your joints you can take it apart and reuse the wood. I used it for a dining room table top and didn't care for the pocket hole joinery results for that build.

I wanted to increase my woodworking abilities for this build by using splines with glue. If I wanted the face frame done fast I have a gun specifically for that a corrugated fastener tool. it drives 1/4" to 1/2" leg 1" crown corrugated fasteners and is suitable for cabinet and furniture frames, truss construction, picture frames, wood boxes, pallets making, and pallet repair. Corrugated fasteners offer twice the strength of other fasteners, eliminating gluing, milling, clamping, and other time-consuming operations. If you have your pieces cut you can put your face frame together quicker than a cat lick its tail. There's not much satisfaction with the gun but your done. I get what you are saying.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Do you have Senclamp? I rarely use this thing
We used them for them face frames in the late 80's...


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I glue up my pieces, clamp them or put them in a glue jig weighted down. leave them until the next day, then just move on to another piece, or project. Works out nicely, and I don't care if pocket holes and screws are fast, I figure it all evens out in the end, plus I spend less money. If I wind up needing more clamps, I just make some cam clamps, easy to make, very low cost each, and they work nicely..


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

My cam clamps aren't low cost and wouldn't use them for glue ups. Between materials for the aluminum and the labor, it's pretty expensive...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> Do you have Senclamp? I rarely use this thing
> We used them for them face frames in the late 80's...
> View attachment 396862
> View attachment 396865
> View attachment 396864


I have the SC2... It's fast but it makes me feel cheap inside after I use it...


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

It's got it's advantages. I rarely use it, but wouldn't part with it. Fasteners aren't cheap either...

I'll use it when I have to put two halves together in a multi layer top..


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> It's got it's advantages. I rarely use it, but wouldn't part with it. Fasteners aren't cheap either...
> 
> I'll use it when I have to put two halves together in a multi layer top..


Who's that hiding under the orange table? The halves knot


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I assume he's bolting them down...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

He might be a gum collector?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> My cam clamps aren't low cost and wouldn't use them for glue ups. Between materials for the aluminum and the labor, it's pretty expensive...
> View attachment 396868


Aluminum? I used 100% plywood, no metal period. And they looked very similar to the one in the photo. The only one that took a lot of time to make, for me, was my first one, had never made one before. After that made masters for the parts and could crank one out in a very short time. The only real time involved was leaving them over night for the glue to dry. Made a bunch of them, from 6" to 4' long. I figured out that the average cost was around $.25 each. After the project I was working on was finished, didn't have much use for them, so recycled most into other projects - planer sleds, and I don't know what all else.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Labor cost isn't cheap. I cut enough for 100 with over 200 pc but figured I had enough clamps and didn't need them. 
In the past I used them mainly for counter tops. But while cleaning up the shop I threw the parts away. Still have the split pins though...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I like to use pocket screws for face frames. How well they work is a function of how square you make your end cuts. Dead on 90s and your face frame automatically comes out square. I have used them for shop cabinets, but I truly hate filling in the gaps and am never very happy with the appearance. I have a set of painted book cases and a center area with shelves between the book shelves, all done with face frames and pocket screws. Across the 10ft width of this there is 1/32nd difference in width across both top and bottom. 

I'll give most of the credit to pocket screws, but it ALL began with my Wixey Digital Angle gauge and meticulous setup of my table saw. I use a Rockler table saw jig with a long swing arm you can set at any angle to make all the cross cuts. I spent half an hour one day making certain it's 90 degree to the blade was perfectly set and all other angles up to 55 degrees are thus, right on. Yup, I'm a fuss budget about precision in the setup. Wood does its thing, but it gets a head start with a precisely set up saw.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

The only way a pocket hole doesnt come out square is if it not square to start with.

Cabinet shops dont use tablesaws to make face frames..

Most shops glue there face frames together. Only knocking them loose when a joint doesnt line up.

A typical miter stop used in the cabinet shop..


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> Do you have Senclamp? I rarely use this thing
> We used them for them face frames in the late 80's...
> View attachment 396862
> View attachment 396865
> View attachment 396864


Yes rarely use it as well only for face frames. As you see (out of focus) it will tear up soft wood but Hardwood and for some reason MDF work fine. The corrugated fastener I have exposed.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Senclamps have a place, but rarely needed. Even doing face frames they can be risky. Cracking bottom rails 1.25-1.5. Like a nail if it finds the grain, it cracks.

It's the biscuit jointer of the business...

Somewhere last week I got an itch to get back into the shop. The boat I'm workin on is in there, but once I remove everything from the boat I can put it outside. I started a poker table and lost interest...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I thought you were going to say "I started a poker table but lost all off my money" ....


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

One thing I'm pretty good at is poker. Now I don't play for high stakes but do okay. My mother and father were gamblers in their day....I have a lot of patience with poker.....


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

"Play Money" only with online poker..... Occasionally great (Lucky) usually just so so.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Online poker is nutty and unrealistic...


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> Online poker is nutty and unrealistic...


Absolutely true....


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I thought it was for an electric train set. John Wayne never would have played poker on an oval table.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I'm sure John Wayne played on a regular table on his boat

I was going to put a train in a poker table years ago, but that a secret....


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> I was going to put a train in a poker table years ago, but that a secret....


I did that but the guys hated it.... took it too long to deal the cards... 🚂


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