# Glue ups. Hate 'em!



## bigmuddyriver (May 29, 2011)

I have come to believe that glue up is the scourge of woodworking. I would rather sand.

One question that I have is regarding squaring up during glue ups. I typically use the measurement across corners method. The thing I haven't been able to figure out is how do I get another measurement when the clamp that I'm using to tweak across the long corners is in the way? I'm probably missing something obvious but I'm good at that. 

Thanks

Tom


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Hi Tom

Trying to understand what you're doing so a couple of questions for you:

What project, how large.
How are you placing your clamps - can they be lowered away from the corner and still provide clamping capabilities as well as measurement.
Can you use the 3-4-5 method (or a smaller multiple of that) at another corner.

It would help if you could post a picture.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

Would it work to dry fit the boards and then check the measurements ? I don't think the glue changes the dimensions very much ?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

bigmuddyriver said:


> I have come to believe that glue up is the scourge of woodworking. I would rather sand.
> 
> One question that I have is regarding squaring up during glue ups. I typically use the measurement across corners method. The thing I haven't been able to figure out is how do I get another measurement when the clamp that I'm using to tweak across the long corners is in the way? I'm probably missing something obvious but I'm good at that.
> 
> ...


on squares and rectangles use speed squares clamped to the inside corners to hold your project together...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

gjackson52 said:


> Would it work to dry fit the boards and then check the measurements ? I don't think the glue changes the dimensions very much ?


if at all...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

I think Tom is trying to check for squareness after glue up and clamping to ensure the clamping pressure hasn't pulled to project out of square. So a dry fit wouldn't help in that case cause he'd then have to take it apart to apply glue.


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## gjackson52 (Jul 4, 2015)

If the wood being used isn't expensive, he could always make it a bit bigger and square off after it has dried ?


Gary


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I gather you're usong the clamp diagonal to tweak it...

Can you use a square or form on the outside,,,then no need to measure..

Can you dry fit, square, then mark your work surface then glue and assemble to the marks...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

gjackson52 said:


> If the wood being used isn't expensive, he could always make it a bit bigger and square off after it has dried ?
> 
> 
> Gary


Yep. What Gary said. The boards will inevitably move a little (dang glue!). I always glue up more stock than needed and later cross cut to the correct length and rip to the final width if it is needed.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

gjackson52 said:


> If the wood being used isn't expensive, he could always make it a bit bigger and square off after it has dried ?
> 
> 
> Gary


That would be difficult when making case goods, which I gather is why he would want to check squareness of the corners.


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

I know these aren't popular anymore but you could always use one of these to check the inside corners.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

I don't 'hate' gluing carcasses but yeh, they're a challenge.
I think that's one of the reasons I like to quickly pin the corners after assembly, then use the diagonal clamp to square it up. 
I use the diagonal measurement if possible but confirm with my framing square...I tried the triangular brace thing with some recent drawers and_ I like it! _
Thanks, you guys!!


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

vchiarelli said:


> I know these aren't popular anymore but you could always use one of these to check the inside corners.


Vince I was using mine today. :smile:


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Don - I forgot which forum I was on :surprise:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> I know these aren't popular anymore but you could always use one of these to check the inside corners.


oh yes they are...


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I use mine all the time Vince. Some of the old tools are the best for lots of things. I recently sent my dad's to my son.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

On carcases, the framing square is my friend. Also Wooden,plastic,metal corners clamped on the corners before putting the long clamps on. 
Sometimes like Dan,and Mike ,Pinning the corners squaring up then clamping and checking between tightening each clamp..

On flat glue-ups, make it larger as mentioned then trim to size after glue sets. Wood does move during glue up, and sometimes stopping and re positioning clamps to bring it back to square. 

Herb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> _*I know these aren't popular*_ but you could always use one of these to check the inside corners.


Heresy... :no::surprise::grin:


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Squaring up with clamps, 90 degree braces, speed squares, making a 90 degree corner that slips onto your bench to hold the corner, using the corner braces Rockler and other sites sell. The all can help. Most of the time, when I'm out of square I can trace it back to not having the blade at 90 or the fence is off. On case goods of any size a small error multiplies. I'm a serious and devoted fan of my Wixey and a dial guage for setting the fence. I recently got the Woodpecker dial guage and have to say it has greatly reduced the misery of fence adjustment. Lots of other ways to do it and digital gauges are cheaper. But the digital devices (other that the Wixey angle gauge) ALWAYS have dead batteries when I need them. I picked up a dial caliper the other day from a pawn shop for about 8 bucks and it is soooooo much easier to read and use than the digital one.

All those things make it pretty easy to keep corners square. Did a pair of 33 inch wide book shelves that span a 10 foot lower cabinet, and they measure within 1/16th inch of perfect width from side to side, on both top and bottom measures. That's square!

In other words, its to me, its about the setup. Finally, I love my pin nailer for positioning gluey, slippery joints.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> Squaring up with clamps, 90 degree braces, speed squares, making a 90 degree corner that slips onto your bench to hold the corner, using the corner braces Rockler and other sites sell. The all can help. Most of the time, when I'm out of square I can trace it back to not having the blade at 90 or the fence is off. On case goods of any size a small error multiplies. I'm a serious and devoted fan of my Wixey and a dial guage for setting the fence. I recently got the Woodpecker dial guage and have to say it has greatly reduced the misery of fence adjustment. Lots of other ways to do it and digital gauges are cheaper. But the digital devices (other that the Wixey angle gauge) ALWAYS have dead batteries when I need them. I picked up a dial caliper the other day from a pawn shop for about 8 bucks and it is soooooo much easier to read and use than the digital one.
> 
> All those things make it pretty easy to keep corners square. Did a pair of 33 inch wide book shelves that span a 10 foot lower cabinet, and they measure within 1/16th inch of perfect width from side to side, on both top and bottom measures. That's square!
> 
> In other words, its to me, its about the setup. Finally, I love my pin nailer for positioning gluey, slippery joints.


All of what Tom says is good information,the saw set up is important.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> Heresy... :no::surprise::grin:


Careful Vince...
Nick is up to something...

.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

DesertRatTom said:


> Squaring up with clamps, 90 degree braces, speed squares, making a 90 degree corner that slips onto your bench to hold the corner, using the corner braces Rockler and other sites sell. The all can help. Most of the time, when I'm out of square I can trace it back to not having the blade at 90 or the fence is off. On case goods of any size a small error multiplies. I'm a serious and devoted fan of my Wixey and a dial guage for setting the fence. I recently got the Woodpecker dial guage and have to say it has greatly reduced the misery of fence adjustment. Lots of other ways to do it and digital gauges are cheaper. But the digital devices (other that the Wixey angle gauge) ALWAYS have dead batteries when I need them. I picked up a dial caliper the other day from a pawn shop for about 8 bucks and it is soooooo much easier to read and use than the digital one.
> 
> All those things make it pretty easy to keep corners square. Did a pair of 33 inch wide book shelves that span a 10 foot lower cabinet, and they measure within 1/16th inch of perfect width from side to side, on both top and bottom measures. That's square!
> 
> In other words, its to me, its about the setup. Finally, I love my pin nailer for positioning gluey, slippery joints.


Tom something I learned a while back is to put a little salt on glue joints to keep them from sliding around. When I say a little I mean very little. This has helped me a lot on gluing what ever I am making.


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## Bodger96 (Mar 18, 2014)

There is all manner of square devices you can purchase, but I am cheap, so I made mine out of 3/4 inch Baltic birch some one else was going to throw in the trash. I dry fit and clamp one side of the corner square, leaving it in place so nothing can slide and apply glue. This has always worked out well for me. But I have a folding rule like Vince's and it also works.

Regards Bob


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

hawkeye10 said:


> Tom something I learned a while back is to put a little salt on glue joints to keep them from sliding around. When I say a little I mean very little. This has helped me a lot on gluing what ever I am making.


That's a neat idea. I have heard of driving a couple of pins into one side of a glue joint, and then clipping them off just proud of the surface, to achieve the same thing. But using a few grains of salt would be quicker.


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## bigmuddyriver (May 29, 2011)

Thanks for the great responses. Many things to try. For the record I was building a pair of Shaker doors which on initial glue up was within a 16th of square but they are pretty big and I was trying to get them perfect ( I know &#55357;&#56833; I'm anal), and I did finally. I also struggle with this on case work and will break out my dad's old folding rule next time, also the pin nailer although it probably wouldn't have worked on the doors. AND be happy when it is within 16th!&#55357;&#56397;&#55356;&#57339;


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> Careful Vince...
> Nick is up to something...
> 
> .


OK

I opened my mouth, changed feet, realized the error of my ways.
Sat in the corner and felt shame - what was I thinking???
Can I come back if I promise not to say anything so stupid again?

To be honest, I pulled that picture off the 'net. I don't have one, but dad did. I got all his tools when he passed, but sadly that rule wasn't anywhere to be found - and there were tool there that he had purchased in the early 50s.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.....

I made a couple of squaring jigs (cause I'm cheap - no wait, thrifty).
two pieces of plywood about a foot square, exactly square with two triangle braces to keep them that way. I clamp them to the inside corner during glue ups.

I'm sorry 0


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## chessnut2 (Sep 15, 2011)

hawkeye10 said:


> Tom something I learned a while back is to put a little salt on glue joints to keep them from sliding around. When I say a little I mean very little. This has helped me a lot on gluing what ever I am making.


I tried that on a small project recently, and it worked pretty well.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I opened my mouth, changed feet, realized the error of my ways.
Sat in the corner and felt shame - 

what was I thinking??? *who knows...*

Can I come back ?.... *sure... didn't even know you went missing... *
I promise not to say anything so stupid again? *good luck w/ that....*

To be honest, I pulled that picture off the 'net. 
I don't have one, *Oh the shame... back to your corner...*
but dad did. I got all his tools when he passed, 
but sadly that rule wasn't anywhere to be found - *good chance he took it w/ him...*

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.....

I made a couple of squaring jigs (cause I'm cheap - no wait, thrifty). *economical too...*
two pieces of plywood about a foot square, exactly square with two triangle braces to keep them that way. I clamp them to the inside corner during glue ups.

I still like the speed squares...
very versatile multitaskers and they do doors too...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

Thanks stick - you're soooooo supportive


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

vchiarelli said:


> Thanks stick - you're soooooo supportive


yur welcome...

.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm with Gary. I always glue up stock that is a bit larger in both directions than the finished size then take it to the saw to reduce it to the finished size. Although I don't think biscuits add anything strength wise they can be helpful in holding the boards in place during a glue up.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

I have come to believe that glue up is the scourge of woodworking. I would rather sand.

One question that I have is regarding squaring up during glue ups. I typically use the measurement across corners method. The thing I haven't been able to figure out is how do I get another measurement when the clamp that I'm using to tweak across the long corners is in the way? I'm probably missing something obvious but I'm good at that. 

Thanks

Tom gluing up is important and the more you do it the better you get, preparation is whats important, put paper down to collect fallen glue or you will have a mess to clean up, have a straight edge to clamp against, here's a photo of a beam I made as an example, you have to be organized as you don't have a lot of time to mess around, if I have a lot of items that are the same to glue up, then it sometimes justifies making a jig that the parts sit in and these jigs need to be square or the glue up won't be square, you need to have them sit flat or the glued up item will be twisted, only use the amount of glue that the join needs as you will just have to clean off and wipe away the excess. so I have clean wet rags handy to do the wipe downs with. I also use the diagonal method to check square as that is the best way, if clamps are in the way then get a timber strip off cut that is longer than the diagonal length and put a nail into the end of it sideways, the nail will reach down intro the corner of the glued up item if it is long enough, if its not then use a longer nail, you don't need to know what the diagonal size is so you don't need to measure it, just mark a pencil line at the other end where the inside corner is and then try it the other way and mark anouther line, the correct size is exactly between the two marks. You have not said what you are gluing up so to get perfect miters then the joins should be planed with a shooting board as saw cuts leave a rough end that wont pull together that perfect and even though I have a shooting plane you can make your own shooting board without that much effort. Working with wood is holistic, you need good tools and know how to get them sharp. I also will say that I don't make anything oversize and later cut it back, there are so many things that you can't cut back. like picture frames, making things out of wood requires you to get better a cutting them to the correct size you want, the correct size to give you the finished size you want to have, it would not be often that I would make anything oversize and later cut it back, a very small amount maybe where I plane it back is the limit that I would do, with drawer boxes that are timber drawers on timber runners then I would make them the exact size and then skim plane them to fit into their place and the planing is what both fits them and gives them the clearance I want to have, working with wood is cutting to the correct size, gluing it up square, fitting to size, sanding, polishing, sitting back with a beer and being proud and happy with what you made, no part of that is boring. N

Tom[/QUOTE]


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## bigmuddyriver (May 29, 2011)

Neville, I like the off cut and nail idea. I'm trying that on my next glue up.


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## thomas1389 (Jan 4, 2012)

chessnut2 said:


> I tried that on a small project recently, and it worked pretty well.


Is that where the old expression "rub salt" comes from?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

thomas1389 said:


> Is that where the old expression "rub salt" comes from?


Don't use pepper, the glue doesn't like that and gets up and walks off.:grin::grin:
Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Herb Stoops said:


> Don't use pepper, the glue doesn't like that and gets up and walks off.:grin::grin:
> Herb


ewwwwwwww....


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

And if you cut your finger in the shop:

"The salt helps create an antibacterial environment to help the wound recover faster. The salt would also help dry the wound as salt absorbs water."

Full disclosure: It stings like h***


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Garyk said:


> And if you cut your finger in the shop:
> 
> "The salt helps create an antibacterial environment to help the wound recover faster. The salt would also help dry the wound as salt absorbs water."
> 
> Full disclosure: It stings like h***


Rub it in..., Rub it in......:grin::grin:

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you the sadist or the masochist...
be a real man..
be a sadomasochist...


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> you the sadist or the masochist...
> be a real man..
> be a sadomasochist...


Hey Stick did you hear about the Masochist and the Sadist? Well the Masochist said "whip me whip me" the Sadist said "No" N


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