# The best Dust Collection deal in the universe is back!



## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Harbor Freight's fantastic deal on their 2HP, 70 gallon dust collector is back. On sale this month at $199, but this weekend with an additional 20 percent off with their coupon.That brings the price down to $160. And on Monday May 29th, there is a that-day-only coupon for 25 percent off! That makes it $150. 

Even if you make your own DC system, it will cost you more than this. If you want it to work inside your shop so you don't pump the warm/cold air out, order the Wynn drum filter for it {pix is with the Wynn filter, it comes with a bag filter, much less efficient). And Rockler and other companies make chip collectors (or make your own with barrel or bucket with a cyclone or shop-made Thein unit. That's about as good as dust collection gets for a small shop. 

And if you really want something that will suck a golf ball through a garden hose, search the site and find the thread on swapping out the impeller with one from another manufacturer (Rikon). I don't think you need to do that though, this thing really does the job.

If you can't get there for the 20 or 25 percent coupon deals, $199 is still pretty darn good. 

I just bought a WEN ceiling mounted filter for less than $90, delivered to my local WalMart with no shipping charge. Found on WalMart.com, but not sure it is still available at that price. It was $130 on Amazon.

This completes the basic DC package for less than half of what the name brand units cost. Really good way to protect your lungs. If they run out, get a rain check!


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Tom if I had it to do over again the HF is the one I would get. I now have the Grizzly 1.5HP dust collector. These lessons cost so much money.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Tom & Don, I hope you are right that this is the way to go, I just went online and got it (plus $22 shipping). It would cost me more in gas to drive into Austin to pick it up. 

I say I hope you are right about this one being a good deal because right now I've got a shop-vac in the attic with a shop built dust separator box on the floor of the garage and 2" pvc connecting them. The problem with this setup is the shopvac is under-powered for the job and I've had to replace it twice in the last few years. Also the filtering I've got in place greatly reduce the suction and easily clog. As the box fills the suction has to draw through increasing amounts of sawdust. 
I'm not sure where I'll put this new one but it should be a big improvement over what I have now.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Everend said:


> Tom & Don, I hope you are right that this is the way to go, I just went online and got it (plus $22 shipping). It would cost me more in gas to drive into Austin to pick it up.
> 
> I say I hope you are right about this one being a good deal because right now I've got a shop-vac in the attic with a shop built dust separator box on the floor of the garage and 2" pvc connecting them. The problem with this setup is the shopvac is under-powered for the job and I've had to replace it twice in the last few years. Also the filtering I've got in place greatly reduce the suction and easily clog. As the box fills the suction has to draw through increasing amounts of sawdust.
> I'm not sure where I'll put this new one but it should be a big improvement over what I have now.


I just don't think you can go wrong. If you read comments in this and other strings on this specific DC unit, you'll find lots of good comments. However, it won't work at its peak unless you make a chip collector to go in front of it, connected through a 4 inch hose. You can make one of these using a few parts from Rockler (the company I bought from).

Here's the link to the system I use. Dust Right® 4" Dust Separator Components | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware You need a flat top trash container, 30-40 gallon will do. I ordered a 30 gallon fiber drum from ULine because it has a perfectly flat top that locks on tight.

You will also need some 4 inch hose, which I bought from Roickler since their 4 inch measurement makes everything fit. Mixing brands doesn't always work. I started with the 27 ft hose and cut off shorter pieces as needed. The unit sits on a base with casters so you can run it right up to each tool. At least that's how I use it. For the one in my small shop, I can't move it, but all my cutting tools are within 12 feet, so the hose reaches everywhere. In my roomier garage, the unit just rolls around. 

As noted elsewhere, I put a Wynn drum filter in the shop because it all but eliminates free dust in the small area. I have 4 tools pushed against one wall, with the DC pushed up in the leftover space.

If you have any problem with the unit, take it back to HF. It is a remarkable deal for a very good unit.


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## jj777746 (Jan 17, 2015)

Tom, what a great bargain.Thanks for sharing.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> However, it won't work at its peak unless you make a chip collector to go in front of it, connected through a 4 inch hose.


Isn't that a cyclone in the middle of the HF unit? What's the advantage of having two cyclone units in series? Two containers to empty and twice the real estate.

thanks
Everend


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Everend said:


> Isn't that a cyclone in the middle of the HF unit? What's the advantage of having two cyclone units in series? Two containers to empty and twice the real estate.
> 
> thanks
> Everend


The extra drum is a chip collector. It drops out the chips so they don't hit the impeller, which is both noisy and possibly will damage it. Sometimes you pick up a screw or metalic scrap that falls out in the chip separator, which must come before the impeller.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Of course, that makes sense, that filter and bag need to be on the output end of the impeller or they would be deflated.


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## Tonto1 (Nov 10, 2016)

It just takes some of the load off the HF unit and decreases having to empty the larger bag so often. Also, if you change to the larger impellor, it removes larger chips that might get stuck in the housing.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Tonto1 said:


> It just takes some of the load off the HF unit and decreases having to empty the larger bag so often. Also, if you change to the larger impellor, it removes larger chips that might get stuck in the housing.


The Wynn drum filter has far more area than the bag, so there is an increase in air flow through it over the bag.

The folded filter surface area is more than 250 sqft. You blow compressed air through the outside of the metal drum to unblock it from time to time. But with the chip collector peeling off most of the sawdust as well as chips, not a whole lot of sawdust makes it into the filter. I'm thinking of adding a drum filter to the second HF unit out in the garage. I like not sucking up sawdust particles.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The $199 deal is good all of June.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I have basically the same set up as Tom. I mounted my fan/motor on the wall. A 30 gallon drum is plumbed upstream of the fan suction. It has a Phil Thien design baffle inside and the Rockler parts Tom mentioned. And a Wynn Environmental filter. This thing works well, except for when I forget to check the barrel. I know, I can see through it, just don't always think about looking at it to check the chip level.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@MT Stringer Where did you get that translucent chip collector? I have to open my fiber drum up to see the buildup.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

BTW, the WEN filter is only $111 at WalMart.com https://www.walmart.com/ip/Wen-3-Speed-Remote-Controlled-Air-Filtration-System/41041161

I am so happy with this thing, I got another for my garage. I think it would work well in the house to reduce the dust that is always hanging around in our desert home. You can have it delivered to your local store, so no shipping charge.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

That Wen looks like my Grizzly...remote and all. :grin:

And yes, I like it also. Especially the timer.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

DesertRatTom said:


> @MT Stringer Where did you get that translucent chip collector? I have to open my fiber drum up to see the buildup.


I found it locally at a place that sells drums. I can see an outline of the level if I look close.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Put an LED in the lid shining into the barrel.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@MT Stringer Where did you get that translucent tub?


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

After four and a half months, I've finally built the shed (well it still needs paint) on the side of my garage to house this new HF dust collector (and also an air compressor). Get the noisy and big things out of the garage/shop. I still haven't even used the new DC yet, just no room to set it up until now.

Question: My current dust system (shop vac) uses 2" PVC, so I already have lots of this available. I'd really like to use this 2" stuff so I don't need to trash what I have just to buy new. Additionally ALL of my tools have dust ports from 1" to 2" so I'll need to port down to this size at the tool anyway. So is there a compelling reason for me to switch to 4" or 5" 

I do have a big cardboard drum I plan to put the Dust Right (or something similar) Separator. I say something similar because I've got a bunch of 2" PVC elbows already. Again, any compelling reason I shouldn't use what I already have?

thanks


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I use 4 inch hoses into the chip collector/DC unit. I bought a long hose, 27 ft I think, cut off a few feet to hook up the chip collector. I have a 4 inch fitting on the end of that hose that connects to 4 inch fittings. However, I have a lot of tools with a 2.5 inch hose and one that's about 1.5 inches. I bought adapters for those hoses the fit the small hose, but have a 4 inch male connector on the end. These only cost a small amount, but what I do is plug the 4 inch adapter to the end of the hose. The air flow of the 4 inch hose is tremendous, so all the smaller hoses hooked to it really suck, in a good way. The adapter at the end of the 4 inch also holds a tube I use to clean up the shop. 

Hose in 3 different lengths. Get one 7-8 ft longer than needed so you can hook up the Chip collector to the DC. Dust Right® 4'' Dia. Expandable Hoses | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware. You'll need this one item!

Hose reducers and connectors. To fit your hoses, take one to Rockler if you have one nearby. 2 inches, 2.5 inches is pretty much unreliable. You neet to fit hoses to connectors, or you'll get the same collection I have (snork).

The floor sweeping setup. Pull the long tubes off and you have a 4 inch connector into which your smaller hoses and reducers will fit. Rockler Dust Right® 4'' Quick Change Floor Sweep | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware You can get a metal spring clip from Rockler so you can hang the hose with adapter, then just plug the adapter fittings into the 4 inch hose adapter. Dust collection isn't exactly cheap, particularly the fittings. 

But if you don't take your hoses in to try the fittings out, you will spend a LOT of money trying to find stuff that actually fits. I don't know how hose and adapter measurements got so screwed up, but they did.

Somewhere along the line, I fed the exhaust through a wall. I recall getting a special tube for that purpose. I think it may still be in the wall. 

Let us know how it all worked out.

Just thinking about it a little. If you were to cut some openings into the DC chamber, you might be able to add a few extra filters so you can return the air back into the shop. Noise suppression may not be as high, but you will otherwise be pumping AC or heated air out of the shop. Just a thought. I put the 1 micron Wynn filter on so I could keep the air in the shop. We have temps ranging from 114 degrees down to 4 degrees, so pumping air out is not such a good idea. I wear a mask for additional filtering, just in case. No more coughing fits for me.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

On a related topic, Stick raised an issue of the lower quality and hidden costs of this unit. He suggested an alternative that is a little better than double the cost of the HF unit, but with a stronger impeller and 220 motor.

Knowing that in my situation requires two DC units, I had to think through some of the issues, for example, HF does not have replacement parts. And if you upgrade the blower or have to replace the motor, your costs go up dramatically. This forced me to think a little out of the box. A replacement motor would be several hundred dollars plus an electrician installing 220. 

But these go on sale occasionally for as little as $150, so why not buy an extra one and keep the impeller and motor as a spare? At $150, it would be a cheap way to make sure you can keep it running for many years. So far as the feedback goes, the basic HF DC unit will run in a hobbyist shop for many years. And for me, at 74, I don't think I'll have to worry about replacement before checking out. If you're much much younger and put a lot of wear and tear on your DC, there's a good case to be made for a higher quality unit. If you're in your 60s and do a lot of woodworking, get a spare and see if you can track down some brushes. If you're an older person and you want to have a belt and suspenders, get a spare for $150 and keep the parts that are most likely to wear out or break, and you're covered. I'm not speaking for anyone else, but those are ways I see handling Stick's concerns.

The cost of a higher through-put, metal impeller is about $100, a Leesom USA motor is $500 plus. Here's a link to a discussion of replacement impellers (Rikon or Jet) for about $120. http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/10...llector-3.html Apparently the Jet requires redrilling to fit the HF shaft.

Thanks @Stick486, for the thought provoking input.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Tom, you bill this DC as *The best Dust Collection deal in the universe* and this is what got my attention..

something I noticed... your unit is rated @ 1550 CFM air flow through a 4'' hose inlet/outlet...
not going to happen...
sears must have done the ratings...

again my unit is 110/220VAC 20A.. no electrician required..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Stick486 What model is your DC unit? I might not have looked up the correct one or the options were not listed. As to the headline, that's my opinion, but I also like to write with a little flare now and again. If you're in my situation, it is certainly true, and if you go back to some of the other discussion strings, you'll read a lot of positive reviews.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Dc-1100...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

DC1100 with canister filter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004T86NAK?tag=wmtogr-20.

DC-1100VX-CK
Dust Collector
At a Glance:

Eliminates rapid performance drop due to premature filter clogging
Captures 98% of 2-micron particles and 86% of 1-micron particles
Dual 4-inch dust port allows for simultaneous connection of two machines
Periodic rotation of filter handle minimizes dust accumulation to reduce health hazards
Sound rating of 70 to 80 decibels

Price shown on Amazon included the metal filter canister, which apparently is 1 micron. But it also has a handle to rotate an internal paddle that knocks the sawdust off the filter. The Wynn filter is cleaned by blowing air through the outside. 

There are two models of the Jet, one with a bag, the other with the canister. The canister model is more than $200 more than the bag version. 

The country of manufacture for the motor is not given anywhere I've looked, for the Jet, but the features on it are good. Lubricated, fan cooled. It also has an RF remote for on/off, a nice feature to have built in that preserves the switch. Something you have to buy extra or make for the HF.

The bag model seemed to be close to the price stick mentioned, at least on Amazon. It is still 3x the price of the HF unit when it goes on sale with a coupon. With the usage and age caveats I mentioned, the Jet is a viable option for someone with lots of years of heavy use ahead. 

The Jet impeller is one replacement for the HF impeller, but you will have to drill out the opening to fit the HF shaft. Rikon's impeller is another choice. The Rikon greatly improves air flow, but takes awhile to wind down, is loud and is a tight fit. Don't know much about the Jet as an impeller replacement, but the basic structure of the machine is very similar to the HF.

Trying to balance out the reviews. But for this old guy at least, the HF seems the better deal budget wise.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mine is not he VX unit...
and what I paid included the canister...
as for the impeller... no issues and the unit has been in service for 11 years..
remove the dual 4'' port and you can connect directly to a 6'' port..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

11 years ago. Oh, that helps explain the bargain basement price. But it attests to the longevity of that model from that time. Didn't Jet get bought out since then? I know some of their newer tools are standard Asian goods relabeled. I know their 12 inch bench drill press is identical, down to casting marks, with the WEN, just painted a different color and 2.5x the price. 

There are other brands out there, Rikon, Grizzly, I wonder how they compare? I know most designs for such things are now very similar because the original patents expired long ago. It has been a long time since most companies were able to claim a superior product now that so many different brands are made in the same factory. I know even Toyota produces some Chevy models in US factories, the story is that the Toyota rejects go to Chevy, but I suspect it's a matter of different engineering criteria.

Wouldn't it be a hoot if many brands of DCs come from the same Chinese plants?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

so I keep thinking about it..
4'' inlet/outlet on the HF DC puts the CFM at not much... 175 on the low... 350/400 on the max side...
so lets leave the jet 1100 out of the picture and drop down to a unit in the 600/650 range for fair comparison...
this makes for a whole new ball game because the two machines are night and day different......
there are many units to be had for near or less money, ready to go, than the HF unit after it's retro not to mention that second unit for parts...... 
Shop Fox is a very good example...

someday we'll discuss intangible cost... the subject many to most don't see, consider, compute into the grand scheme of things or seems to avoid like the plague entirely..


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

While this post is a bit off topic for where this thread has been lately, I finished my DC shed this week. I bought 4" galv duct for the parts outside, I'll transition to the 2" inside the garage.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick, 
If I were making a living with woodworking, and younger, I'd give consideration to the factors you mention. However, I turn 75 in a few months. If the darn thing runs until I check out, I'll have enjoyed a lifetime of use. I used it on a project this afternoon, and man, that thing really sucks up the sawdust, which is something my home made setup (which cost more than the HF unit) didn't do nearly as well. BTW, I won't be buying a spare for parts. They're often on sale if I need it.


I encourage you to mention specific brands and models when you suggest comparables. I think that's appropriate for the Forum and more helpful to members than generalizations. I did a lot of looking before popping for the HF and nearly all were at least nearly triple the HF price and often more, and for less power. It's a confusing mess including fudged CFPM numbers, so specifics are important.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Stick,
> If I were making a living with woodworking, and younger, I'd give consideration to the factors you mention. However, I turn 75 in a few months.


but what about the WW that half our age...
a DC for them is an investment... not a get by...
and I'll be 71 in a few months...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

That's exactly the person for whom I'm asking you to list specific alternatives. I don't know what to suggest, and you keep pointing to units that are better choices long term, but I have no idea which specific units you're talking about. I think lots of young WWs would really like to know specific models you'd suggest. You are probably the most respected voice here, and for those very members, your specific suggestions would carry considerable weight. The choice is clear for me, given my age and amount of usage, but you are absolutely right that choice isn't right for everyone. I've been in business for 35 years, advising doctors about business matters, so I completely understand your point and have no arguments with it. So, please get specific.

But that doesn't change my point that given the choice between no DC and a $150 HF, and there's no money for better, then the HF is the best DC deal in our limited WW universe, to indulge just a bit of fanciful writing.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

whew!!!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

My feeling precisely Stick! This is what happens when two people with differing opinions are both correct, depending on the circumstances. I think we've beat this horse to death.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

A younger or new WW has to consider the ultimate longevity, usefulness, and versatility of their system when they make this type of purchase... A cheap unit, that is inadequate, has limited or no expandability, unreliable, and potentially unsustainable is just money wasted...
Also, they need to understand the intangible cost associated with what ever they do... 
Let’s use a four inch inlet/outlet as the control...there are a lot variables but a 4'' duct will only allow so much CFM flow... Please remember, that, certain tools need a minimum amount of CFM flow to eliminate/control debris... For some tools, a four inch duct will be totally inadequate...

It is vital that anyone wanting a DC system that they thoroughly do their homework...
Go look to Bill Pentz's DC articles/research and the PDF's already posted...
*Dust Collection Research - Beginner's Corner*

Here are some links for some apple to apple comparisons…Well, as close as we're going to get ...
*Shop Tools and Machinery at Grizzly.com 
Dust Collectors | Rockler Woodworking and Hardware *

These are just a few that can be compared to your UPGRADED HF DC...
Why go to the effort to upgrade when for roughly the same amount of money you can have one out of the box and ready to go??? 

Bottom line is that dust collection is a very serious health and welfare item that demands close attention that should be done well and correctly from the start... Never/not at ''awww, that's good enough'' levels...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

and I'll be 71 in a few months...[/QUOTE]

I wish I was 71 again,and know what I know now.
Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Herb Stoops said:


> and I'll be 71 in a few months...


I wish I was 71 again,and know what I know now.
Herb[/QUOTE]

I wish I was 15 or 16 again and know what I know now. I could get into way more trouble the second time around.

Tom in most aspects I have to side with Stick on this. I have a Taiwanese DC that is at least 20 years old and although it sounds far superior that what you describe (220volt, 6" main intake split into 2 fours, and no reliability issues) I've stopped calling it a dust collector and renamed it a dust redistributor. Every time I turn it on it emits a cloud of the finest, most harmful dust back into the atmosphere of my shop. The saying that some dust control may be better than no dust control may be so marginal in the case of the cheapos that the saying barely can be considered true. It may in fact be mostly a false sense of security. I have a plan for mine that should improve the problem by several hundred % by putting it on the outside of my shop wall but that's another post for later and it won't be applicable for everyone. Dust control is a very important issue that should be brought up regularly but we need to do more work to find effective, affordable solutions and I'm not sure that the HF unit falls in the category of being effective. In fact I'm pretty sure it doesn't without the significant modifications talked about. Some of the things we do know about dust collection is that best case is down to .3 micron level. But .3 filters clog quickly and need at the least a cyclone upstream. Even better is a cyclone and coarse filter bank that is easily cleaned (and cheap to clean) that limits the amount of work the .3 micron filter has to do. Next best is 1 micron but all the other conditions still apply. If we can solve those issues at a reasonable cost with reasonable maintenance and high reliability then and only then will we have the best dust collection deal in the universe.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Here is my 2 cents on the discussion. A person with a small shop I know has a HF dust collector hooked to all his shop tools. He found that for the planer and table saw it worked OK. BUT< for the drum sander all the dust ended up in the Winn filters. He had to constantly clean his cartridge filters to get the air flow back up. 
To solve the problem he bought a dust Deputy and a new vacuum cleaner. First he tried to put the Dust deputy in line with the HF DC. Doesn't work, all the fine sander dust ends up in the filters. Then He did the same with the Dust Deputy in line with the Vacuum cleaner and it worked like a charm, no sanding dust in the vacuum cleaner at all, that you could see. now he will install a micron filter in the vacuum cleaner to filter out the dust you can't see.
Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Herb, any idea why the dust deputy worked with a vac and not with a DC?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Herb, any idea why the dust deputy worked with a vac and not with a DC?


Chuck, I think it was because the dust Deputy has a small opening around 2 1/2 " diam. And DC's reduce the air flow to the size of the port. thus it cut the air flow way down as DC's work on low velocity-high volume air flow. Vacuums on the other hand work on high velocity and low volume that is why they work so well with small ports. For example if you put a dust deputy between the tool and the dust collector , you reduce the airflow to 2 1/2" diameter opening, kind of like closing the blast gate 1/2 way closed.

One time I tried to use the dust collector on my ROS on the bench. I reduced the 6" duct down to an 1 1/2' connector on the sander. I could hardly detect any air flow at the sander, but conversely if I hook up the vacuum cleaner it sucks the socks off the sander.

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Another thing Chuck the HF DC does not have a true cyclone on it, so it does a poor job of separating the fine sawdust from the course, and the fines end up in the filter.
Herb


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have a chip separator before the HF unit, which greatly reduces the sawdus entering the unit. I also wear a mask whenever I'm working in there, especially when cutting. After, I run a ceiling mounted filter for 2 yo 4 hours. I had thoughts of getting dust deputy, but the 4 inch model is expensive and the 2.5 inch model runs into the air flow restriction. Grizzly's filter has a lever operated flap to knock the sawdust buildup off, which seems a good idea. 

I don't buy "false sense of security" arguments. If one is informed about the dangers and doing something about it, then you have real security. Which is why I wear the mask and filter the air for several hours at a time. In my garage, I can move the HF unit outside. I think you could use a washable filter in a big box before or after the chip separator to reduce filter clog. 

I basically agree with the points being made about a quality DC, but let's be honest, if you have a budget, just do moderate projects and you have a choice between a high quality DC unit and an equally priced table saw, what will people choose to buy? We've been around long enough to pay attention to DC, many folks love the smell of sawdust and haven't a clue about the dangers. But they do now, if they followed this post.
.
And don't forget, my headline was meant to be a bit whimsical.


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