# Harbor Freight question



## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

Hey, I see you guys talking about Harbor Freight a lot in different posts I read. I am curious, do you guys really consider HF a place to get things? I always kinda steered away from them, but the prices are definitely more my style.

I mean, would you ever buy router bits, t-shank blades, drill bits...

Guess to make the list shorter, what would you definitely steer clear from at HF?


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

DerSchuhmacher said:


> Hey, I see you guys talking about Harbor Freight a lot in different posts I read. I am curious, do you guys really consider HF a place to get things? I always kinda steered away from them, but the prices are definitely more my style.
> 
> I mean, would you ever buy router bits, t-shank blades, drill bits...
> 
> Guess to make the list shorter, what would you definitely steer clear from at HF?


You get what you pay for!!!!

If it involves a motor or accurate measurements or anything that will require more than light pressure -- I won't usually get it from HF.

Now.....saying that I will probably buy a winch from them, and have bought a grinder (weak motor) and a multi-tool, which seems to work ok. 
great reviews on their DC. Bits, sanding paper, blades, etc .... definite no unless it's a use once throw it away. Just be a bit picky and match their stuff for what you do.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DerSchuhmacher said:


> Hey, I see you guys talking about Harbor Freight a lot in different posts I read. I am curious, do you guys really consider HF a place to get things? I always kinda steered away from them, but the prices are definitely more my style.
> 
> I mean, would you ever buy router bits, t-shank blades, drill bits...
> 
> Guess to make the list shorter, what would you definitely steer clear from at HF?


no no and no....
stop thinking w/ only your wallet...


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I have made many cribbage board holes with HF drill bits. You may only get 60% of them in the pack that are perfect, but it is cost effective and they are always in stock.

I got some step drills from there that I cannot kill, very happy.

Brad nailers and staplers are the best deal in town.

The f style clamps and aluminum bar clamps are pretty good as well.

My daughter has the small VS lathe, perfect for a beginner, I did have to make a couple of adjustments to get rid of some burrs that prevented the tool rest from locking solidly.

There is a ton of crap there, but a few gems. Search you tube for harbor freight, many decent reviews and recommendations.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I have bought a few items that I like, the F clamps and their aluminum shaft clamps. I have two of their dust collectors (which I think are still on sale for about $200) which are important when you get doing more than casual work. I have nitrile gloves for finishing that range from thin to thick, and I buy their surgical style masks for casual cutting protection. I do have and like their multi tool, which works fine, particularly since I don't use it much. But I wouldn't buy anything that requires great accuracy or has a small motor. The standard for flatness is pretty relaxed on their tools, and the finish isn't usually very good on cast iron tables and such. You often have to do a lot of work to get their tools up to spec for woodworking.

They have a fairly light duty work bench for about $130 on sale now that is very usable, and has a decent end vise. I reinforced mine on top and around the edges. But for someone with limited space, I don't think you can beat it. Very similar table at Rockler is more than double that price. However, my first workbench was a folding 30x60 table with a wood top. I still use that table for other purposes, and it folds up and gets out of the way nicely.

Harbor freight is always fun to visit though, It's helpful to look at tools and fiddle wth them to figure out how they work. Stick is right though about not thinking only of price. If you like woodworking enough to continue at it for the long haul, make sure your big tools are high quality.


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Depends. Have a HF bench drill press I got in 96 or 97. Needed a new switch within a week, trouble free since. Angle grinder about 10 years, still working - unless my son walked off with it. I buy there, but watch what I buy. They do/did have DeWalt factory refurb tools. Heard a contractor one day trying to buy a display model of a tool I don't remember what was. He said he could buy a big name tool, and it would last about four weeks - he also said they were used 7 days a week, and 12 hours a day, steady. A HF tool would last 3 weeks. But he could buy two FH tools for the price of one big name tool, so it was very cost effective for him to buy. Almost forgot, HF hand power planer, hand belt sander, ROS, all years old, all working just fine. They do have an excellent return policy. Yeah, I'd buy there again - when you want a tool you will likely only use once, do you want to buy an expensive one that would hold up to years of use, or a much less expensive that probably would last maybe a dozen uses?


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Let's see...
F Style clamps - never had a problem with them in 6 & 12 inch. The 24 incher will bend but I still use them to hold parts in place while I attach them.

Alum bar clamps - work OK for me.

Acid brushes - use them a lot to spread glue. Cheep

Nailer and staplers - multi use framing nailer uses three different angle nails. 1/4 inch stapler/18 ga brad nailer - works perfect but leaves a mark when shooting the brad nails.

HVLP spray gun, filters.

Metric wrenches and sockets. Got to have them for whenever.

2hp dust collector.

Casters for carts.

I know there is more, but I am drawing a blank.


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Some items are good and some are junk. Tom and Theo point out some of the items at HF. You have to pick and choose their good items.


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## Northerner26 (Jan 2, 2010)

i have been buying stuff from HF for many many years and havent been disappointed yet!
your always going to hear bad stuff about them because they sell a LOT of stuff and of course some items will be defective and people will talk about it.

also they have great warranties on stuff if something did end up defective.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

Their blades and bits are kind of junky. I was using one of their multi tool blades and the welds attaching the cutting portion to the main body broke. It was embedded in the material I was cutting so it didn't go flying. Like some others have said beware of the stuff that goes fast. Also, I bought the HF flooring nailer for $99. It worked fine but per HF they don't sell replacement parts for it e.g. gaskets and seals, which do wear out over time. I did some searching and found out the name brand that HF had knocked off and the parts sizes/specs were the same. At check out I was told there was only a 90 day warranty and my home flooring project was going to take longer so I bought the extended warranty. When I read the owners manual it said that for non-commercial and non-rental use the warranty is 1 year. The warranty wasn't expensive but I was curious so I called HF Customer Service. CS rep said 90 day warranty as posted on Web Site. I said I didn't buy on-line. CS rep gave same 90 day answer. Now I was curious as to when the extended warranty kicked in...90 days after purchase date or 1 year after purchase date. Nobody at HF or the extended warranty company could provide an answer. I wonder how much they make off warranty sales?


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## billyjim (Feb 11, 2012)

Like many others, I have found HF to be a mixed bag. I have their 2HP dust collector and it runs great and the p;rice can't be beat. I buy some clamps from them and have only had 1 fail. Tarps, HVLP stuff, and casters are also good quality. I do read the reviews and have had good success (or maybe luck) with my HF purchases.


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

I have purchased so much stuff from HF over the years, it's hard to start the list. My HF philosophy for power tools is buy HF if I only need it for occasional use. Most of their tools will not stand up to daily or heavy use. I have only returned one tool, an angle grinder, and it was noisy and rattled right out of the box. The replacement is still working years later. 

I bought the 2.5HP sliding wet/dry tile saw and it works wonderful with a diamond blade I bought on Amazon. I have used the $20 multitool for years. I bought their coil roofing nailer on sale when I did my roof and then sold it for only $20 less than I paid and I could not rent one for that. It worked great. 

I love their cobalt 115 piece drill bit set. You will not find a better deal on cobalt bits. I have their biscuit jointer and it works well for me since I don't need a high end one for occasional use. Their small clamps work well. I have never broke any of their wrenches or sockets yet.

I do not buy router bits or saw blades with the exception of their 7" diamond wet blade for the small tile saw. They hold up really well for me.

What else can I say, I'm a fan.

Rich


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## ForeignAutoService (Apr 22, 2017)

The quality of HF tools is very variable. The tools made in China, which are the cheapest, vary from adequate to junk; the tools made in Taiwan are usually of acceptable quality, so look closely at where the tool was made. I have purchased many router bits from China on E-bay and they have all been of acceptable quality and 1/6 to 1/10 of the price for US made router bits. Recently I purchased several box of 29 drill bits coated with titanium oxide for $10; good quality and very cheap. However, be aware that HF does not stock replacement parts for electric tools so if the tool brakes you must throw it away. However HF tools usually include a extra pair of carbon brushes in the box.

Dennis Waller


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## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

WOW! Thanks guys! Actually going to take notes and arm myself with all of this information and go back over there to actually browse at all the stuff and figure out my plan. I know I will definitely get some of those clamps. 

I'm totally with you Stick. I have often bought quality so I could have it for a long time. I have even debated with people, they would ask, why are you buying that for $X.XX when you can get it over here for $x.xx and I my reply? Cause I will have mine for 10 years and by the time you wore yours out and replaced it a dozen times, mine will have been cheaper! 

I have even been known to get any overtime I could, or even 1, 2 or even 3 extra part-time jobs to make up for something that I knew was a good item. But being on disability, alas, those days are gone. For quite a few years now, it's been either get this one, or go without. Some things I definitely go without, but I have to find something that my wallet can feed out. If I only make $850/month to live, I can't go out and buy a $500 portable table saw I have been drooling over or even the $300 portable band saw every easily. Then I have to remember, sure I got the table saw...but there goes my chance for clamps, wood, blades...

Believe me, it sucks having to live like this, but I am really not complaining. It's just I have to use my brain to figure out how I can still reach goals in my situation. I don't want to make furniture out of old milk crates...that was for when I was 18-20 and first out on my own! LOL

For instance, I have a couple of inexpensive but nice looking furniture pieces. Everything was geared to the old flat. Unfortunately, this flat is SO different, the cabinet won't fit in the bathroom, not even room for the toilet space saver!!! And I was given a plastic shelf and the shelves are warped and I hate that ugly generic good for nothing "thing" in there, but it has to do for now. The measurements for the cabinet I want in this bathroom...even cheap MDF or particle board, $269 from Walmart, is the cheapest. I was like WHAT?!?!

I can't even get the items I had in my bedroom to fit in this bedroom-that's another project. But after I get the shelves up on the wall in the bedroom...I will not worry about that room for a little while.

My next project will be for the bathroom. I can get decent plywood, maybe that birch one of you guys was talking to me about, make dado cuts, glue, screws and plugs, maybe some of that stain one of you guys showed me and make a decent cabinet that fits the space, is functional and looks nice and will last for quite a while, for WAY cheaper than the $269 plus tax. AND I can say did it. 

This is why I also love Amazon and eBay (sometimes). There was a book I really wanted, several years back but it was $35 plus tax at the store. I went online and found that book, plus a 2nd book that came with it, for $25 w/free shipping and no tax! 

And there have been times I bought something that was supposed to be nice and when it broke 4 months outside the warranty for the TV, and in warranty for the recliner...I got the bums rush on any service for both items! That really sucked! Even wrote corporate sometimes-that's when you learn who you are really dealing with.

So yeah, unless I win the lottery, I have to think what is the best I can afford for this amount. IF I win the lottery, I will buy some land and have the house/garage plans that have been in my head for YEARS drawn up and built! And I will be keeping my eye on the workers most of the way! I want it done right! LOL


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

Fixed income, eh? Yep, that makes a huge difference. Been on fixed income since '95, so know the feeling.

But, there are ways around part of that. Make your own clamps - free plans on-line on how to make cam clamps, once you make one, they are easy. I made a batch of them years ago, all wood, no metal in them. Figure the cost was around $.25 each, and they work great. Mine were from about 6" to 48".

I wanted/sort of needed a saw besides my bench saw. So, stuck an old sabre saw, upside down, in a homemade frame. Works great. Made my own router table, of course. Would have made a belt sander, but already had one. Same with disc sander. 

Don't forget craigslist. But it's somewhat like HF, gotta be cautious, and lots of times prices are higher than a new whatever. 

Trades. Got a flute off of craigslist, very cheap. Always wanted to learn to play one. Well, couldn't even get a sound out of it, me not the flute. So, advertised it on craiglist and said I wanted a scrollsaw. Already have one in my shop, but wanted on in the spare room of the house. Swapped that el cheapo flute for an older Delta scrollsaw, that is probably worth close to $200 - top of the line. 

I've got enough $ to spare I could probably afford to buy some things I could really use, but get along without for now. But why buy, when it's more fun to make it, and cheaper. Right now I've got several projects planned to make rather than buy. Barrel spinner, buy around $100+, make maybe $10 or so probably. Metal nibbler, about $10 if I can't find my carbide burr and have to buy one, rest out of plywood I already have. Small wood lathe (because I sold nice HF wood lathe, because all I liked to do with it was make carving mallets), for a couple of projects - cost, zip. Even if I had a truckload of cash, I'd likely make those things anyway, it's lots more fun.


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## N'awlins77 (Feb 25, 2011)

Some hand tools, but I stay away from anything electric. I like there cheap little foldable, plastic saw horses. The look ******, but are pretty sturdy. And the F-clamps are pretty good. But nothing electric!!


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

To me, HF products are like cars....one person gets one that is great, another gets one that is junk from the start. I buy a lot of small items from HF and use the coupons for freebies. Went there Wednesday and started picking up small things for Christmas presents- lights, multi-meter, screwdrivers, etc. I had a benchtop bandsaw that vibrated real bad. Finally got rid of it. I have an electric chainsaw that I use in the shop for cutting wood for turning- so far, so good. Belt sander seems OK so far. If HF had poor products across the board, they would have gone out of business a long time ago.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I still have income, but am slowing down and know money will be tighter, so I've purchased every tool I think I'd really need now, high quality every one. Now, when I go to my woodworking store, I can't find anything much to spend money on, so I figure I'm tooled up until I check out. But I also have my secret fund, all daily change goes in a jar, and the money from selling my old band saw, and a hundred bucks winnings from the Survivor game pool my step daughter holds every season. By the time I stop working, that fund will buy wood and consumable supplies until I assume room temperature. Planning for the reduced income future which, being 74, may be shorter than I'd like. 

Maybe those of us who don't have someone to leave our tools to, should find a way to hand them off to someone on fixed income to use?


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> Planning for the reduced income future which, being 74, may be shorter than I'd like.QUOTE]
> 
> You're very fortunate then. I'm 76, and started reduced income in 1995, not my choice. Fortunately my Army retirement, and disability, have kept me afloat. One very fortunate thing, when I was laid off my last job in 1995, I received a nice bit of change from the company (possibly the only one that did, the company was very cheap toward everyone but management - management strangely performed so brilliantly they got regular and hefty raises. The peons on the other hand, seldom got raises, and they either got nothing at all, or raises of $.03 to $.05 per hour). But I digress, that money was enough to have my small shop built, $780, with a window, and buy some tools. If I hadn't bought the shop then, I would likely still not have a shop. At 8X12' it may not be much, but it still gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to look out the window and see it out there.


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## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

Yeah, fixed income here since 1997. I like your creativity Theo and I think I am going to make me some clamps!

I have been checking out Craig's list this year, before I joined the forum but I have been shocked at some of the stuff up for sale-UGH! Really bad quality for still kind of high. And the few I did find that I would consider worthy, are too far away for me. Been without a car about 4 years and another 3 before I can get another one.

You just helped me in getting some Christmas presents John! I am now on their mailing list so I will make sure to take the coupons with me when I get them!

I agree Tom! People who are on fixed income that enjoy this stuff, would LOVE tools and machines gifted to them!

Theo, I would LOVE to have a place where I could have an 8'x12' workshop. I can imagine having that warm fuzzy feeling, just being able to go out there and know it's yours and have some fun while you're at it. Heck, I would LOVE to have my own home and work in the basement, attic, garage or whatever! hahaha


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@JOAT Having a shed for a shop really works for me. Mine is about the size of a single car garage space. My wife hired an electrician to put in a 60 amp sub panel, which was better than the 100 ft. 12 gauge exentsion I had to drag out there for a few years. I really love it in there, AC in summer, heat in winter. Need to find a space for a chair though.
@DerSchuhmacher I was lucky in that my work has allowed me to continue earing in my old age (74), although I don't feel that old. Funny, as my hair turned white, potential clients showed increasing appreciation, and business actually improved. It's not all bad getting old.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Knothead47 said:


> To me, HF products are like cars....one person gets one that is great, another gets one that is junk from the start. I buy a lot of small items from HF and use the coupons for freebies. Went there Wednesday and started picking up small things for Christmas presents- lights, multi-meter, screwdrivers, etc. I had a benchtop bandsaw that vibrated real bad. Finally got rid of it. I have an electric chainsaw that I use in the shop for cutting wood for turning- so far, so good. Belt sander seems OK so far. If HF had poor products across the board, they would have gone out of business a long time ago.


Their return Policy is second to none. I broke a power tool once,abusing it and took it back,they said go put that one in the corner and go get another one,or if you want your money back just give me the receipt.
Be sure to keep all the receipts.
Herb


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

Herb, thanks for the testimonial. How's that for a big word?


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## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

John! That's only a 25-cent word. hahaha

Tom, that one friend I have mentioned a few times, says getting old has been great for him-even young punk type kids see him and open the door, or pick something up for him. He's eating it up! Even my dad and a few other guys I know have been bragging about the treatment since they have gotten old. You really made me stop to think about this, because I have been hearing them but it has been a bit of a conundrum for me. I never heard this growing up, just now that I am a little older and I guess since I have always been independent and wanting to do things on my own, unless I need help and ask, that I cannot imagine being happy with people treating me special because I am old! Guess when I get there, I will hopefully get to experience and appreciate it, as well.

I was just talking to a buddy of mine who says the return policy is great (even here) so I guess it's worth a gamble on some things, then. I still haven't gotten over there yet, but I have been doing some window shopping on their site and reading all reviews and such.


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

And you usually get the senior discount at restaurants.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@DerSchuhmacher I find that younger people can't appreciate the fact that getting old has its compensations. Once you realize that the end is far closer than the beginning, you can relax a bit, play things by ear more, and enjoy simple things you never had time for when you were busy doing something all the time. For me, I have just about everything I ever wanted, my daughter lives close by and is taking my business on pretty well, have lots of friends (although their die-off goes apace) and a wife who is happy I'm still around. I died once on a plane (revived of course) and realize it's really nothing. Knowing that is a subtle relief. 

Probably the only thing that frustrates me is having a deep desire to mentor, to help enable accomplishment in someone younger. If young people realized how powerful this mentoring urge is, they could build the lives they love far faster, including avoiding focusing on the irrelevant and wasting years. By accepting the hand up, they could make enormous advances personally and financially instead. 

Yup, there are many older people who have blown their own lives and whose free advice would be worth its price. But there are many others whose ideas and suggestions are gold. You are very smart coming to this bunch to speed up your learning curve.


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## Knothead47 (Feb 10, 2010)

DRT, well said. Several years ago, my wife's great-uncle passed away in his 70s The minister said something that I have often pondered. Brother Bill said when a person of that age dies, it is like a library burning down. I have to agree- the knowledge, observations, and life experience are invaluable. I'm trying to pass along as much as I can to my grandchildren.


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## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

I could not tell you how often I told my mom and some others, that I wished I had a good mentor in my life. Sure, my mom was great and dad has his points, even had a friend who was into buying a home and flipping it. I helped him a little bit and learned a lot of DIY things for homes, cars, yards from them. But I never had anyone to teach me fishing, camping, woodworking, metal work, glass work, how to get out there and find the good deals/horse trading...anything I am able to do, I mostly taught myself.

Okay, since 1997 I have been off work and ALL these years trying to figure out how to make some extra income because I don't even have enough for groceries sometimes. And I have gone bonkers without things to do. 

I did self teach myself HTML and when I was going to go to college to take a German class, I accidentally got accepted to financial aid and work on my diploma. I was going to go for a Web Master degree and this got my German for free, so to speak, and then EVERY semester, the head of the financial aid department put a stopping block in my way. EVERY semester I plodded through and got to the next semester. At the end, she was stopping me from finishing and the help of faculty didn't even work. I finally wrote a letter asking to just take classes to finish up the diploma and start from scratch. I ended up with an Associates in General Studies-NOT conducive to becoming a Web Master, which I could have done from home on my good days/hours. Mind you, to this day I NEVER met this woman in person. She would not see me face-to-face, would not talk to me on the phone, didn't even respond to E-mails. It was always printed out letters or through someone else trying to relay her messages.

I forgot to explain. I was going to college outside of high school to get my biology degree and was going to get my foot into the door of the local USDA working with mycotoxins. But finances and health interrupted a lot of my life. So when I did get that degree mentioned above, it was my 25 year anniversary for a 2-year degree. If you can say one thing about me, it's that I don't give up.

Moving, put me in a bind-credit card, and NOTHING fits in this flat. EVERY piece of furniture/storage was based on the other flat. I am like, this place finally feels like home and I have to make it that way. Well, things are MUCH more expensive now and usually fake, plastic, thin metal and so on. And there's not much storage here. So I needed to figure out more DIY techniques to figure out a way. And I just read on one of the threads about going to construction sites and looking on Craig's list for free wood. Well, that is 100% up my alley but without transportation...

Anyway, I am starting to think in a different direction with all of this and have started actually drawing out a few things for future plans instead of keeping them in my head.

I have started thinking on cheaper ways to get around certain things and still accomplish something decent.

I am even thinking about this thing on Sundays where if I could make a handful of really nice things (unlike that etsy coat rack hahaha), and actually renting a table/space ($10) and see if I can do anything. If I can, then maybe I can start to take off. This would help me in getting better bench top tools, make better items for my flat and help me get things I am seriously in need of and have something to occupy my time when I am feeling good.

It's amazing how you can get an idea in an instant and other things takes years, but hopefully I have quite a few years left and can make a difference with them.

Tom, I wish we lived near one another, cause I would love to learn the craft and problem solving and the comradery of another person interested in something I like. Speaking of which, noticing a lot of woodworkers offering scrap wood but we are talking 1-3 hours away! If only I had a vehicle-and then I could talk to these guys, too!

But, as it is, I have been reading a lot of posts and then going to google and have bookmarked a list of things, as well. It's getting my wheels turning at the very least!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@DerSchuhmacher Life deals out challenges, that's for sure. My grand daughter has had mental problems for much of her life, add to that domestic violence and two children. Her mother (my daughter) has been having her do web work for our consulting business, and earning a little money. My granddaughter is very intelligent and has learned a lot from her father, who is a systems admin. for a government agency. My first wife and I have ponied up for a car for her, which is making her life easier. Oddly, we found that underneath all the behavior problems was a vision and perception problem that she's beginning treatment for. This problem triggered behavior that led to all kinds of trouble for her. Her perception of the world is that it is threatening and lined up against her. That isn't so, of course, but it is self fulfilling. 

I like that you're taking some steps to break out of your present situation. Interrupting habitual behavior by making different choices is an excellent way to generate a different outcome. 

I had a client once who was deep in debt. We changed the way he operated his practice, but he had to pay bills and didn't get to keep his increase. So we had him buy a toy shovel and bucket which he mounted on a wall to remind him that digging out is where most people get frustrated and revert to old ways. I don't have a degree, but have made a living for 35 years helping professionals build their practices.

Find what people with money want help with, which help you can learn to provide. Requires a change in thinking, from you at the center, to them at the center.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@DerSchuhmacher There is a line from a film that goes, "If you want a degree, go to college, if you want an education, go to the library."


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## eye4one (Mar 23, 2010)

*Harbor some thoughts*

HF is a hit or miss opportunity. Precision tools are best found elsewhere, but thingamabobs without power cords can be good to try. 

One exception that I gambled and bought is the HF circle saw blade sharper item 96687 -- it sells for about $35-$40. If you tinker with this machine for a few days you can "learn to sharpen" carbide tipped blades up to a 10 inch. This is a cheap "diamond in the rough" machine that I will recommend with two grains of salt... 
1. you must search Youtube videos to see how others have made revisions, improvements and recommendations for the blade sharpener. 
2. be prepared to patiently tinker with it. My guess is that many people will fail this test -- have fun!

Search for "Harbor Freight Circular Saw Blade Sharpener Review and Modifications" by ghostses

I was pleased with my final result, however, I enjoy tinkering and modifying tools.


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## 197761 (May 2, 2017)

I was irritated when they recently came out with a sale to spend $49 and get something for $5. If I could have hit that one up, would have been a good deal for sure. I am a bit strapped June, July, August, but I am getting their E-mail and got their catalog now. Going to keep watching and reading reviews!

Hey Theo, if I can get good instructions, I can do "almost" anything, so I will check that out.

One thing I absolutely failed at, pre-internet days, and no one to help, was rebuilding a carburetor! Made me so angry! LOL I had everything put together but something with the adjustment was not right, and never thought of taking it to the store and asking what I was doing wrong. And a hoover vacuum once got the better of me! Got so angry (out of frustration) I threw both in the garbage! But that was many moons ago. LOL


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

197761 said:


> Hey, I see you guys talking about Harbor Freight a lot in different posts I read. I am curious, do you guys really consider HF a place to get things? I always kinda steered away from them, but the prices are definitely more my style.
> 
> I mean, would you ever buy router bits, t-shank blades, drill bits...
> 
> Guess to make the list shorter, what would you definitely steer clear from at HF?


 
"There is hardly anything in this world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and those people who consider price only, are this man's lawful prey. It is unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot; it cannot be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better"

John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Interesting the direction so many of these posts lead. Years ago, I took a course that changed everything for me. I repeated and volunteered to coach in it 14 times. It was really the technology of accomplishment. One of the exercises was learning to ask people to help you. Every time I repeated the course, I got more busiens sand was able to raise my fee. One week's homework was to survey the people in the communities in which you operated (not the location, but the field), what your reputation was in that field. Turns out I'm known for changing the way people think. Since that the essence of what you have to do to change your situation, it's a pretty good skill for a professional consultant. 

In a course a couple of decades ago, we were discussing making a contribution to others. The leader asked who wanted to contribute in some way to others. Nearly all of the 240 people in the course raised their hands. Then the leader asked who was really ready and willing to ACCEPT the contribution of others (wisdom, advice, leads, information, even free tools) less than 60 people raised their hands, and of those, many realized they really rebuffed or ignored the help, and 36 people were left. so there's a great shortfall of people who will accept help. The killer question, however, is who would accept the help of others if it didn't happen in the way you thought it should. For example, they yell at you, or call you an idiot, or a fool, or a stiff-necked jerk for thinking or doing something that doesn't really work. There were 6 hands up for that one. 

Where do you find mentors? Start asking, "would you mind helping me?" What if you're really unsuccessful at doing this, but you ask 20 people. You might find far more help than you'd ever imagine. Be one of the six out of 240. Stop expecting anything or thinking you're being selfish or a burden if you accept the help. Listen without judging to the suggestions and offers. They may not deliver what you think you want, but maybe something else, even something better. And if they don't have anything for you, well, the word is NEXT.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

w/ that said Tom, I have a burning question..

why do you push that HF POJ dust collector so much??
research says that the impellers fail... adding tangible and intangible cost to the initial monetary outlay....
changing out the bag to canister filter adds to the tangible and intangible cost..
the poor quality motor and switching ends up adding more tangible and intangible cost..
it being out of service is adding more tangible and intangible cost...
adding a cyclone adds to the tangible and intangible cost..
any modifications that it needs is adding tangible and intangible cost..
and etc..

so why not get a unit that needs no modifications, has a proven history, is MTL quieter and has far better performance when all is said and done for the same money and even possibly less...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick, I haven't had a lick of problems with it. I don't think it holds a candle to some of the commercial grade units, but at $150 on sale, it works well enough. The canister filter costs the same no matter whether or not it is included in the price of a better quality machine. I also think that a chip collector in front of the unit will reduce fatalities in the impeller. I think most of the folks here are using theirs from time to time, not constantly. I imagine the motor won't hold up under all day use, but I doubt that a lot of members here run the HF unit all day.

I don't push this thing, I just keep an eye out for the HF sale price and post when it is offered. I am very happy with the machine itself. I have two, the one in the shop has the canister. But the one in the garage is pushed outside so the bag filter works OK for now. I know you do a hell of a lot more woodworking than I do, so your use is going to be far greater than mine and your point applies. But many folks here will be better off with one of these than going without. Notice that I nearly always mention wearing a mask in addition to the filter on the in-shop unit. Most carpenters I've known have lung problems because of lack of dust control, for them, the HF would have been much better than nothing, even if they had to replace the motor and change the impeller. 

I understand your point and like everyone here have great respect for your experience and advice. Why not add a comment when I post in the future? Anyone who is doing a lot of work should consider a higher quality unit. Which would you recommend they get if they fit that criteria? I mean, are we talking and extra $100 to $400 more, or even more? I know my fantasy DC unit is about $1,400 and requires rewiring for 220v. In my case, it might also involve paying out for a divorce lawyer. Double that for my split shop setup.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

in the overall scheme of things and solid look at the bottom line costs (tangible and intangible) that DC is a poor value...
the money spent there would be better being put towards a unit that doesn't need anything or an upgrade later...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Stick486 There you go!


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## ForeignAutoService (Apr 22, 2017)

Stick486 said:


> no no and no....
> stop thinking w/ only your wallet...


The products sold at HF range from acceptable to junk: you should aim at buying the acceptable items because they are usually much cheaper than comparable US made products and often of comparable quality. However, it is impossible to buy replacement parts for any HF tool so they must be thrown away when they fail. In general Taiwanese made products @ HF are more expensive than Chinese made products but are universally of good quality. 

What are good buys at HF? The package of Chinese made fractional drill bits for $10 are a steal: even if you have to throw several bits away after using them several times. Ditto for the dowel jig and hand plane made in India. By contrast, I bought a 10" sliding compound miter saw for $130 several years ago but recently gave it away because both the 90 degree and 45 degree miters were way off and the saw could not be adjusted to cut accurate miters: in short it could not be used for cabinet work but was perfectly suited for rough carpentry. By contrast a 2 hp 1/2" router failed the 2nd time I used it and I plan to replace the router with a BOSCH router.

In general terms I would consider purchasing manual tools from HF where you can examine the product e.g. chrome-vanadium sockets for auto repair, Chinese made carbide router bits and a 6" digital micrometer for $10 but avoid tools with electric motors where you can not evaluate the quality by examining it. The problem with many American tools is the prices are so high they don't make economic sense for most amateur woodworkers. Why pay 6-10X the HF price for an American router bit that you may only use 10 times?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> in the overall scheme of things and solid look at the bottom line costs (tangible and intangible) that DC is a poor value...
> the money spent there would be better being put towards a unit that doesn't need anything or an upgrade later...


Do you have a specific unit in mind?


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

HF is a hit and miss place. My Dust Collector is good 2 sanders I had were junk, portable ventilator very good, pin nailer (PITA)


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I have bought a few things from HF and I have been disappointed in everything. I bought a angle grinder because I was cleaning paint off a brick wall outside. I used it for 1 1/2 hours and my hands were so numb I threw it away and bought a Makita what a pleasure to use. I had some nut drivers which were not very accurate and one of them broke. I threw them away also. I don't buy anything from HF anymore.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> Do you have a specific unit in mind?


I have two Oneidas (very serious commercial) and a Jet 1200 w/ cyclone....


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> I have two Oneidas (very serious commercial) and a Jet 1200 w/ cyclone....


The Oneidas are commercial, way out of my league. Didn't check price.

The Jet with canister is $770. https://bisjettools.com/dc-1200vx-ck1-dust-collector-2hp-1ph-230v-2-micron-canister-kit-new.html Plus electrician wiring the 230v. Plus the 4 inch cyclone separator for about $250, unless you mean the cyclone built into the unit? 

HF unit on sale, $150. Wynn metal filter cartdrige $190, ($340) but not needed if you can roll the unit with the filter bag outside. Better replacement impeller for HF, about $90, replacement 115v, 1.5hp motor for HF perhaps $250? Not sure I need a Baldor motor for my level of usage. My time replacing them $?. Electrician setting up 230v line if I want a stronger motor $? 

Of course, one could just buy another HF unit on sale for the blower/motor/impeller and keep them as spares. 

Double the cost for me because I have two in my split shop setup. No argument about lifetime, heavy usage comparison. But this is the math as it applies to me, a 74 YO hobbyist. Can't speak for anyone else. :smile:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DesertRatTom said:


> 1... The Oneidas are commercial, way out of my league. Didn't check price.
> 
> 2... The Jet with canister is $770.
> 
> ...


1... about middle 5 figures each...

2.. 540$ per my receipt..

3... many can do that themselves...
this Jet is 110VAC or 220VAC

4... the jet has a separator in it...

5... lot of intangible cost in there Tom......

6 ... please...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@Stick486 $540 with canister? I was looking up the 1200 model with canister filter, which arrives set up for 220 and has the higher pricetag. I don't mess with 220 wiring, so an electrician is a must for me. But that's a choice each person has to make for theselves. 

The canister is a bit over $200 alone, slightly higher than the Wynn filter. But then I didn't search for lowest price either. My DC money is spent already so for me it's moot, but more info is better for those still considering their options. Dust collection is a must if you want to be able to breathe later in life. The chip collector is part of any DC system, and will keep metal away from impeller blades. I have the Rockler version, but the Thein is a great choice as well, either way it is a must item.

Here's a link to a discussion of replacement impellers (Rikon or Jet) for about $120. http://www.routerforums.com/lobby/107225-booster-hf-dust-collector-3.html Apparently the Jet requires redrilling to fit the HF shaft.

If I had a commercial shop, the Oneida would likely be my choice. They have a great reputation and I see them in pictures of many commercial shops. I also like the Laguna DC units...does that make me a Lagunatic?


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