# Using skis to mount router???



## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

Hi - I'm new to routing (and woodworking in general). However, that doesn't hold me back from thinking about making my own router table...

Is it possible to mount a router using skis?

I like the idea of a flat top with as few adulterations as possible. So, mounting the router directly to the top, without using a base plate, appeals to me. However, of course, for a rather thick top the range of depth adjustments available would be severely reduced. To solve that issue, one can make the area where the router is mounted thin. However, that weakens the top and possibly leads to sagging.

To alleviate the sagging issue, I was thinking of using skis to mount the router to some sort of support structure. Thus, a thinner portion of the top can be used to mount the router, because the router never really pulls on the top.

Is that a viable idea? I assume it's not really viable, because I have so far not seen a design such as this...

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks! MM


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi MM, Welcome to the Forum
I'm new enough myself not to feel qualified to comment on your idea but don't let that stop you from getting creative. Be sort of a statonary ski??
Some guys here have experimented (and more) with "overhead" routing, mounting routers to radial saw arms. 
Good Luck


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

IMHO not viable. 
the ski's ( or support struts ) added would negate the purpose of thinning the material in the 1st place. You could do the opposite and use a thinner top with beam supports running across the under side of the table and frame in the router, but it would probably still vibrate and sag over time due to the constant vibration of the router at work. 

IMO your best bet is just to use a router plate and a proper thickness table. 
That way you can remove the plate with router installed and all instead of having to flip the table over every time you change bits. As well, you could use throat plates for different size and shape bits where as with just a hole and a bit through it your pretty much suck.


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## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for the replies so far.

Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my description. I intended to have the skis below the table top, mounted to the cabinet frame that also supports the top. The router base would still be screwed to the underside of the top, but it wouldn't really hang off of it. It would mostly be propped up by the frame.

MM


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 6, 2006)

xvimbi said:


> Thanks for the replies so far.
> 
> Perhaps I wasn't too clear with my description. I intended to have the skis below the table top, mounted to the cabinet frame that also supports the top. The router base would still be screwed to the underside of the top, but it wouldn't really hang off of it. It would mostly be propped up by the frame.
> 
> MM


Welcome, Mischa! I really don't understand your aversion to using a mounting plate. I can't see where mounting the router direct to the top would afford any benefits that the plate doesn't meet and exceed. The plates are mounted perfectly level to the top, so I guess I truly don't understand your problem with it.


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Mischa:

The idea that I am using for my router table that I am currently building is somewhat along the line you are suggesting. I have a Bosch 1617EVSPK router kit. The motor unit is tall enough that one can make a router lift to fasten to the bottom of a thick top. On my presently-being-built table, the only penetration of the top will be a 3-1/2-inch-diameter hole that permits the router to be lifted up far enough to allow bit changes above table.

I am hoping to finish my table in the next month or two and will post details when it is done.

Cassandra


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Mischa:

Found a sample lift that you might want to look at.

Router lift 

Video: Router table and fence

(By the way, I have grave concerns with the techniques used in the videos.)

Cassandra


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## BigJimAK (Mar 13, 2009)

xvimbi said:


> Hi - I'm new to routing (and woodworking in general). However, that doesn't hold me back from thinking about making my own router table...
> 
> Is it possible to mount a router using skis?
> 
> ...


Hi, Mischa...

I would like to discourage you from using an upside-down ski approach for mounting your router in a table. It sounds like an attractive approach but it has one falicy. To ensure the bit is 90 degrees to the wood, the two rods must be at the same level. When using skiis, this is easily done by placing something thin between the surface to be routed and the router base plate before tightening the nuts. Gravity works with you here.

If you invert this, gravity isn't your friend. You must still get the rods parallel and level except you would have to hold up the router as you tightened the nuts. I think inaccuracies would frustrate you; they would me!

You've said you want "few adulterations" so instead I'd like to encourage you to use a base plate. The base plate is made of thin, strong plastic or aluminum (so you don't lose depth) yet you can have a nice thick top for rigidity.

Gluing up and cutting a router table top is a lot simpler and more straightforward than it sounds. It was my first router project here (a few months ago) and after reading the posts on how to cut for the plate and asking a question or two I was *amazed* at how straightforward it is. 

It makes a great first project and it'll make your later projects easier too!


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## davcefai (Aug 3, 2009)

The idea will work but my advice is "Don't bother".

My Mark 1 table was basically a 3/4" sheet of ply and the router was attached using 3 clamps made from 20mm box section. The router base nestled in a routed out "nest" so that the thickness of the table above the router was about 10mm.

Mark 2 uses a recycled plastic 8mm chopping board as a plate. Sag is undetectable and bit changes are a lot easier.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Mischa:

I agree with Jim. The expense and effort you would go to with under mounting a router on skis would be better spent on an OakPark baseplate.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

xvimbi said:


> Hi - I'm new to routing (and woodworking in general). However, that doesn't hold me back from thinking about making my own router table...
> 
> Is it possible to mount a router using skis?
> 
> ...


If you mean mounting the router to the top using its own rods then yes it certainly is possible. My Elu 96 is mounted to its table like that and has been for the last 30 years. However if you need to have the router bit centered in the opening it is less than ideal. That said I have not needed to center the bits as up to now I have never used bushes in the router table.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Jerome:



sometimewoodworker said:


> If you mean mounting the router to the top using its own rods then yes it certainly is possible. My Elu 96 is mounted to its table like that and has been for the last 30 years. However if you need to have the router bit centered in the opening it is less than ideal. That said I have not needed to center the bits as up to now I have never used bushes in the router table.


Do you have a picture of this? I'm trying to figure out if you're using the column tubes or the straight-edge tubes for mounting. It sounds like the straight-edge tubes and it would be interesting to see the mounting method.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Jerome:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a picture of this? I'm trying to figure out if you're using the column tubes or the straight-edge tubes for mounting. It sounds like the straight-edge tubes and it would be interesting to see the mounting method.


Sorry no and as I am in Japan and the router and accessory Table are in Thailand it will take a while before I can get to take pics. :cray:

That said if you go to Tool Shop Direct - Where Tools Cost Less the mounting rods are part No. 49.

The table that they mount to is at







Tool Shop Direct - Where Tools Cost Less the part No.s are 17, 18, 20, and 21

unfortunately there is no picture of the underside of the table.

The rods (49) fit into the router as normal, they then fit into two V locating points under the table at one end with part No. 17, 20, and 21 locking them in place. At the other end there is a flat section of the table and part No.s 18, 20. and 21 lock the other end.

This means that the router can move sideways in its own rods (until you lock it down with its screws) but is fixed in a vertical plane. The router base is not attached to the table itself.

If you still can't picture the mounting I will make some rough sketches.

FWIW I was astounded that parts are still available 30 years after purchase How about that for service???


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jerome

It took me a long time to get what you are trying to do,but now I get it,,the rods are for the edge guide for that 1/4" router..that router is on the same order as the GMC router...not the best for a router table 

Elu MOF96 ROUTER

It will work but you may want to rethink that,,it's only a 1/4" router after all.. ..

==========


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

sometimewoodworker said:


> Sorry no and as I am in Japan and the router and accessory Table are in Thailand it will take a while before I can get to take pics. :cray:
> 
> That said if you go to Tool Shop Direct - Where Tools Cost Less the mounting rods are part No. 49.
> 
> ...


Hi Jerome:

Now, that's interesting. When you can get to pictures please put some up. I would like to update my basic router notes accordingly. However, this brings to the fore a bunch of other questions as well. How thick are the rods? How often do you "adjust" the position of your router? Do you use a clamp on fence as in "the Router Workshop" or the "T"slot method or do you have a different philosophy?

Do you find the router sufficiently stable to push some real work through or does it flex with the load? You would know this from the scoring on the bottom of the groove as you route a rabbet. Do you mount the fence perpendicular to the rods or parallel or both? The rods of the straight-edge cutting jig would be too short to give much movement in the table or are they overly long?

Do you find advantages to this installation method or only that it is different? You would have read us expounding the virtues of different mounting methods, does this compare to any other or do you consider it unique?

Gotta go, roofing today


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## xvimbi (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks again for all the input.

Jerome - What your are describing is exactly what I had in mind. Precise centering & leveling should not be a problem, certainly shouldn't be more difficult than using leveling screws on a base plate. Good to know that's it's not such a whacky idea after all...

George - I don't really have an aversion to using a mounting plate. I am only following advice from the likes of Bill Hylton and Pat Warner; I have no personal experience at this point. Honestly, to get on with it, I will likely just mount the router directly to the underside of the table top, then go from there wherever what I am doing takes me. 

Casandra - That lift looks awesome, and it got me thinking even more.

Duane867 - I think the vibration issue is alleviated by decoupling the router support from the table top. I don't know how much, though. One could probably even think of putting some vibration-dampening pads between the table top and the underlying support frame. But that's probably over-engineering...

I got most of the material for my top, but haven't found any laminate in small quantities yet...

Thanks again! MM


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## Cassandra (Mar 15, 2006)

Hi Mischa:

Yes, it does get one thinking, doesn't it? In fact, I am reconsidering my own router mount. 

Another one is shown on web page Router Table and Lift This one was shown in a past issue of American Woodworker.

Cassandra


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

> How thick are the rods?


 I'm not sure they are standard Elu MO 96 rods


> How often do you "adjust" the position of your router?


 Usually once when I put the router in the table


> Do you use a clamp on fence as in "the Router Workshop" or the "T"slot method or do you have a different philosophy?


 it is a different philosophy though not mine. The accessory table also mounts the Elu circular saw and uses a standard European front clamping rip fence with a removable section for router use and a different throat plate. it is part Nos. 4 to 10













> Do you find the router sufficiently stable to push some real work through or does it flex with the load?


I have never found it to flex there is little downward pressure unless I am not using it as designed.



> You would know this from the scoring on the bottom of the groove as you route a rabbet. Do you mount the fence perpendicular to the rods or parallel or both?


 It is perpendicular to the rods.




> The rods of the straight-edge cutting jig would be too short to give much movement in the table or are they overly long?


 The table was designed by Elu to use the standard rods. The movement Available in the table is probably 30 mm to 50 mm but once set up i almost never move the router





> Do you find advantages to this installation method or only that it is different?


 It works as it is supposed to, it is very easy to mount / dismount the router. Having looked at all the other methods I would estimate it is many times faster



> You would have read us expounding the virtues of different mounting methods, does this compare to any other or do you consider it unique?


 I have not seen a mounting method that is anything like it. I never thought about it as I bought the Table, Router and Circular saw about the same time.

I also have a much smaller table top Table, Also Elu, That uses a similar method, though in the small table the rods pass through cast holes in the table


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Hello! This is an interesting post. My thoughts are that you can accomplish the same thing a lot simpler. The specks & tolerances are so tight, that a little moisture will change the workings, unless you live in an ultra dry climate. In order to get it all to work smoothly, all will have to be in very close tolerances. You can make a lift from metal tubing that will be more resistant to change, than wood. I believe that American woodworking had one that looked quite doable , but time is still a problem. By all means, I am not suggesting that you should buy, instead of building a router table,I have made all of mine. It is very easy to do, and, it is a joy to use a table that you created. That one with the gears would be to much of a challenge, and i fear, that you would be stuck with it, and loose interest. Do it only if you want to challenge yourself, and you don't need it to work perfectly. Make a more standard table, then later, just do it for the challenge


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

dutchman 46 said:


> Hello! This is an interesting post. My thoughts are that you can accomplish the same thing a lot simpler. The specks & tolerances are so tight, that a little moisture will change the workings, unless you live in an ultra dry climate. In order to get it all to work smoothly, all will have to be in very close tolerances. You can make a lift from metal tubing that will be more resistant to change, than wood. I believe that American woodworking had one that looked quite doable , but time is still a problem. By all means, I am not suggesting that you should buy, instead of building a router table,I have made all of mine. It is very easy to do, and, it is a joy to use a table that you created. That one with the gears would be to much of a challenge, and i fear, that you would be stuck with it, and loose interest. Do it only if you want to challenge yourself, and you don't need it to work perfectly. Make a more standard table, then later, just do it for the challenge


I think you misunderstand I am describing the way Elu designed the MO96 to fit into the Aluminium tables they sold (no problem with moisture :sarcastic. I can't take pics. to show what I mean But here is one configuration of the table top Table


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jerome

It's bit off the point but take a look at the links below 

MLCS Horizontal Router Table

http://www.routerforums.com/project-plans-how/9782-best-both-worlds.html

=========


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jerome
> 
> It took me a long time to get what you are trying to do,but now I get it,,the rods are for the edge guide for that 1/4" router..that router is on the same order as the GMC router...not the best for a router table
> 
> ...


When I got it about 30 to 35 years ago the Internet did not exist so information was hard to get, as were 1/2" routers at a good price. 

One major point in its favor is that with its accessory table it is an extremely portable horizontal AND VERTICAL small router table. With the table it weighs less than most 3hp routers.

So it is perfect for routing smaller pieces.

FWIW I will be making a table next spring that will be designed for a larger router initially I will put my OF 1400 in it but intend to get a Trend 11 as a permanent fitting. This will be for big bits


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Jerome
> 
> It's bit off the point but take a look at the links below
> 
> ...


Hi Bob

I have been looking at the MLCS H.R.T. for quite a while and thinking about how to build the same thing into the table I will build next spring. 
Your build has been posted at the perfect time.

Some one else who has really great lateral thinking that is great to copy or get me thinking is Niki from Poland he posts on the UKworkshop forum. If you haven't seen his stuff I recommend taking a look

One of the few good things about my situation (I only get to butcher wood twice a year) is that I have a lot of time to think out and design my projects. Though I do find that plans often get to be modified after first contact with wood.:jester: 

TTFN


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

xvimbi said:


> Thanks again for all the input.
> 
> Jerome - What your are describing is exactly what I had in mind. Precise centering & leveling should not be a problem, certainly shouldn't be more difficult than using leveling screws on a base plate. Good to know that's it's not such a whacky idea after all...
> 
> Thanks again! MM


centering is the only thing that takes any time. 

leveling is a non issue.If you take a look at Allthunbs pics he has an MOF96 mounted on very short rods. If you make them longer and slice the skies in half so you have a half round profile attached to the underside of the table then use the other half to lock the router in.









If you use that system leveling is automatic

BTW the rods can be plain (not threaded) Just use something to limit the sideways positioning.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

BigJimAK said:


> Hi, Mischa...
> 
> I would like to discourage you from using an upside-down ski approach for mounting your router in a table. It sounds like an attractive approach but it has one falicy. To ensure the bit is 90 degrees to the wood, the two rods must be at the same level. When using skiis, this is easily done by placing something thin between the surface to be routed and the router base plate before tightening the nuts. Gravity works with you here.
> 
> If you invert this, gravity isn't your friend. You must still get the rods parallel and level except you would have to hold up the router as you tightened the nuts. I think inaccuracies would frustrate you; they would me!


Hi Jim 

You are absolutely correct, but only if you use skies that have a vertical adjustment. With Allthunbs skies there is no problem.









However the point of if it is the best way or a good way to mount a router in a table is a different matter. In the case of the Accessory tables that I have it clearly is the best way. 

But if you have a need to use guide bushes then it clearly is not the best.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/5783-special-tribute-simplenik.html
http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/5532-do-you-have-sawboard-aka-circular-saw-guibe.html
http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/4604-doweling-router-table.html

=========



sometimewoodworker said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> I have been looking at the MLCS H.R.T. for quite a while and thinking about how to build the same thing into the table I will build next spring.
> Your build has been posted at the perfect time.
> ...


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## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

I still strongly encourage you not to use router skis to mount your rig to the table, or box it in. 
If for nothing else that jumps out at you other then practicality issues and possible over engineering. 
I would just buy a mounting plate, make a template and be done with it the right way the 1st time a round and save your self some heart ache and muscle ache.


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## sometimewoodworker (Feb 13, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/5783-special-tribute-simplenik.html
> http://www.routerforums.com/tools-woodworking/5532-do-you-have-sawboard-aka-circular-saw-guibe.html
> http://www.routerforums.com/table-mounted-routing/4604-doweling-router-table.html
> 
> =========


That is Niki and a very small sample of his work UKworkshop has around 200 projects most with as many pics.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Pictures tell a thousand words. That's a clamp on vertical. Now the elongated hole and the rods make sense. 

When you get back home, please post a picture so I can include it in my notes, top, front, side and bottom would be nice.

Now, most verticals I've seen pictures of have some sort of raising and controlling method, i.e. a machine screw. Does this have a similar action.


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