# Trimming a face frame flush with a cabinet



## Jonas Bailer (Sep 21, 2020)

I'm building some shop carts to practice building cabinets before I tackle some built-ins. I'm currently building a planer cart with a hard maple face frame (3/4" thick, 1 1/2" wide). I'm planning to cut the frame a tad wide so I can flush trim it to the cabinet sides. Any pointers on a flush trim bit for this? I think I need a 1/2" shank, 1" cut depth / bottom bearing, but beyond that... 2 flutes? 3 flutes? spiral? cut diameter?

Thanks in advance for advice!


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

You wouldn't trim a real cabinet so you shouldn't trim the practice one. Typically face frames for cabinets are slightly larger than the cabinet so that they can be screwed together and still look tight. You can see this if you look at your kitchen cabinets. The only tip I would give is to use a pocket hole jig, If you don't have one then take a look at Kreg. There are other brands available but stick with one that you clamp the wood into and not the kind that you clamp the jig to the wood. To me making face frames without pocket hole screws is like trying to make one without a table saw.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

mgmine said:


> You wouldn't trim a real cabinet so you shouldn't trim the practice one. Typically face frames for cabinets are slightly larger than the cabinet so that they can be screwed together and still look tight. You can see this if you look at your kitchen cabinets. The only tip I would give is to use a pocket hole jig, If you don't have one then take a look at Kreg. There are other brands available but stick with one that you clamp the wood into and not the kind that you clamp the jig to the wood. To me making face frames without pocket hole screws is like trying to make one without a table saw.


I don't understand. Why not?


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Jonas Bailer said:


> I'm building some shop carts to practice building cabinets before I tackle some built-ins. I'm currently building a planer cart with a hard maple face frame (3/4" thick, 1 1/2" wide). I'm planning to cut the frame a tad wide so I can flush trim it to the cabinet sides. Any pointers on a flush trim bit for this? I think I need a 1/2" shank, 1" cut depth / bottom bearing, but beyond that... 2 flutes? 3 flutes? spiral? cut diameter?
> 
> Thanks in advance for advice!


Any flush routing bit with bearing will be fine. We often use a 1" for face frames..


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Excellent idea to build shop cabinets to build up your skill and confidence.

I second using pocket hole jigs to make face frames. The important part is that you make certain your saw is set up EXACTLY 90 degrees to the table so your cuts are square. If they are square, you can measure the cabinet line two pieces of your faceframe stock on top, then measure the remaining width to get an exact fit. If you want it flush, cut the exact length, if you want 1/8th overhang, add a quarter to your measure for the rails.

Drill the pocket holes on the ends of the rails using the jig in the Kreg kit. When you screw in the pocket hole the joint will tighten up and be fairly strong. If you were accurate in cutting the 90s, it will also be square. I prefer the screws with the square head, they drive in more reliably than the phillips type. Use fine thread for hard wood, coarse for soft. I find 1 1/4 length is perfect for pocket holes. The pocket holes go on the edge of the cabinet so you don't see them.

All this assumes your cabinets are square. That is largely a function of your cuts, which means your table saw's blade is perfect 90 to the table. I popped for $30 and got a Wixey Digital Angle gauge from Amazon. It will get you to 90 exactly every time.

Square cabinets are also aided by use of proper clamping. There are a number of ways to do this. 

Parallel clamps have wide jaws that are engineered to hold cabinets square during glue up. Augment this with a 90 degree corner brace clamped to the cabinet sides to hold everything square. Bessy makes the most common parallel clamps, but I got the Jet models instead because they have a quick release lever. They are expensive and you need to get one a foot longer than the maximum height of the cabinets you're making.

Rockler makes a plastic, L shaped gadget you can clamp into the corners. 

You can use pocket screws to put together the carcuses. If they're cut square, these will pull the cabinet square. You'll use glue as well, so you can fit dry, open the joint by unscrewing the pocket hole screw, glue, then retighten. Kreg makes a clamp that helps with this process.

Pocket holes are not pretty. Not a problem on the top of a wall cabinet, but not so nice underneath. Kreg makes plugs you can cover and fill the opening with, but it will take patience and a japanese saw to do this. It requires using a wood filler, so finishing can be problematic. My kitchen wall cabinets are not finished underneath because we installed LED lights.

For base cabinets, you can hide the pocket holes with a counter top, and put them underneath the bottom. BTW, buy screws 500 at a time, they go fast on a cabinet project.

This is a lot of detail, but the real point is make sure your blade(s) are set exactly to 90 degrees.


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## Jonas Bailer (Sep 21, 2020)

Thanks. I realize the face frames for built-in cases would have overhang, but I'd probably still need to flush trim the edging on the shelves, so I figured this would be worthwhile practice. I noticed that Whiteside bit has a double-bearing. What's the advantage of that?


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Jonas Bailer said:


> I noticed that Whiteside bit has a double-bearing. What's the advantage of that?


None for what you are doing.


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## Jonas Bailer (Sep 21, 2020)

Thanks DesertRatTom. I'm definitely planning on using pocket screws for the face frame and I have everything on hand that I should need. I appreciate the detailed advice. I was looking at these Woodpecker box clamps as they seem like they'd be pretty handy for case construction. I've already done the case for the little rolling cart cabinet I'm currently building, and even without those I'm pretty happy with how they turned out (for a shop cart). I'll need more precision for something my family looks at every day though


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

The whitesides is just an example. The double bearing is just an example

You always make your frames the exact size they are intended to be.

At some point I'll do a write up on building cabinets.

At this point are you using dado's to assemble your cabinets?


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

I wouldn't waste time with a kreg. Just make a pocket holer.


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## Jonas Bailer (Sep 21, 2020)

For this rolling cart/cabinet, a simple rabbet on the top and bottom (also to help support the weight of the planer that will sit on top of it). The back will sit in rabbets too. I have some nice 4/4 hard maple waiting for my jointer to arrive before I tackle the face frame, top, and drawer fronts. And yes... my garage shop is carpeted. Whichever previous homeowner decided to lay carpet in there needs to be tortured indefinitely.


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## Jonas Bailer (Sep 21, 2020)

This is the cart I'm building, by the way. A bit hard to see from the tiny photo on this site, but gives you an idea... Planer Cart


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Yeah, Kreg jig for me. I had good results using the jig, especially the modified one!  Built a lot of projects using this type of screw/joinery.








For the love; not for the Love of Pocket Holes


It's somewhat surprising to see some of the bitter debates over the merit of pocket holes. They are the good, the not so bad and the ugly of the wood working world for some people. I think the Kreg Jig HD works well for some outdoor projects. They can be easier to work with for face frames...




www.routerforums.com


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

When it comes to cabinet shops.

Cabinet frame members are very precise. 2" is exactly 2" and so on. This way when frames are done they can be perfect. In your case there isnt much movement with a rabbit joint. So when making the cross members you might want to add a fraction to the rails to give you some play mounting to the frame...


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

MT do you have this version? I showed this on Woodnet when I was a frequent member...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

Rebelwork Woodworking said:


> MT do you have this version? I showed this on Woodnet when I was a frequent member...
> View attachment 397086


No. I never tried to build it.


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

My version works great. A lot less money than the official Kreg jig.





Foreman Pocket-Hole Machine


Professional-grade pocket-hole machine Built with professionals and hobbyists in mind, the Foreman Pocket-Hole Machine is packed with features that will have you building with twice the speed and half the effort of a standard pocket-hole jig. The Foreman DB210 offers all the same features and...




www.kregtool.com





And it also makes a good pecan cracker!


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

The woodsmith poket holer is a excellent jig.

You should try it If you get a chance. I was going to make a larger version, but moved into furniture making and got away from it.

I may try and make one this winter if I can keep my attention o can it...


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Rebelwork I don't know about building one as elaborate as the one shown. It's big so it takes up a lot of space, and you have to buy a separate router and bit plus the hold down clamp and the wood. In the end are you any better off than just buying one? MT stringer yours looks like the Kreg at least the blue part of it.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The Kreg K4 kit is the way to go for most of us. You will also need some clamps. This right angle clamp has proven very useful in holding a corner together while inserting screws.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

It is 12"×12"×12"....

Not much of a foot print..


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

mgmine said:


> Rebelwork I don't know about building one as elaborate as the one shown. It's big so it takes up a lot of space, and you have to buy a separate router and bit plus the hold down clamp and the wood. In the end are you any better off than just buying one? MT stringer yours looks like the Kreg at least the blue part of it.


Even with a kreg it can add up in cost.

I guses my advantage was #1 having a lot of routers and #2 fueled for production #3 a 3D woodworker...


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## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

mgmine said:


> Rebelwork I don't know about building one as elaborate as the one shown. It's big so it takes up a lot of space, and you have to buy a separate router and bit plus the hold down clamp and the wood. In the end are you any better off than just buying one? MT stringer yours looks like the Kreg at least the blue part of it.


It is a Kreg. I just replaced the arm with the pneumatic thingie. The last time I used it, my grand daughter was operating the foot control and I was drilling the holes. We had fun.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

The chances I would make such a device are zero and none. It just doesn't make sense to me to make a space eating jig for low production of one kitchen full of cabinets. My pocket screw gadget is mounted on a small chunk of ply that sits on a small shelf. I clamp it to my table for use, then put it away. When I remember to do it, I tape a plastic bag in front of the jig to collect most of the chips. All the clamps and screws sit on top of the ply base and beside it. Takes up about 2 feet of a shelf. Ever ready for use.


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## Rebelwork Woodworking (Sep 11, 2004)

Mine sits on a shelf with a box of 70k in screws. Takes the same 2 ft in space..

The poket holer is for those just starting in their career as a woodworker looking for more productive ways to accomplish the task.

Those on the back end of their career wouldn't see an advantage but a young buck will find an advantage.

What I think or you think doesn't matter. I try and educate people to think for themselves and become better efficient woodworkers..

Thee last time I used a kreg jig I was working for a designer named Joe monson. I hated it so bad I brought mine. Much better and faster..


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