# Have you ever made a Harp?



## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

This is my most recent project, A friend of my sons, a musician brought over some "Drawings and Templates" out of cardboard and asked me build him a harp. 

Also he brought over material to make it out of,some bamboo cutting boards and trays.

Herb


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

The first thing I did was to talk him out of the Bamboo. Instead I talked him into useing maple. I have a lot of that,and since this was a no fee project, I wanted to use material I was comfortable with. 

Here are pictures of the first completed one. I would like to show pictures of the construction, but he wanted to wait until he had his ideas protected before I did that. But he gave me permission to post the completed version 1.

He took the final version 5 home last night to tinker with it to see if it played the tones he was looking for. I thought it played very well, but my hearing is only marginal anyway so I trust since he is the musician he must know more about that than I.

Maybe at a later date he will let me post more on the construction.

Herb


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

Very pretty. It must be a task to string and tune that thing. I have enough trouble with a six-string guitar.


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Woooooooow!
That's absolutely GORGEOUS. I want to make a door harp. Still working out where to
get the strings and set it up, however, and now that Bentley's been sold, I have to wait
till we have our garage, too lol


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Woooooooow!
> That's absolutely GORGEOUS. I want to make a door harp. Still working out where to
> get the strings and set it up, however, and now that Bentley's been sold, I have to wait
> till we have our garage, too lol


Barb, the pins are out of a couple of box harps he had and he put new strings on it. I am not sure of his source, I will find out and let you know.
Herb


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

Thanks :happy:


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

I believe that monyfillymint fishing like will work. For at first time effort anyway, but I do remember reading instructions on building some sort of stringed instrument or other and that is what was recommended to use - not all the same size tho.


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## dick in ia (Jul 23, 2007)

Beautiful job. I will be looking forward to hear how it tunes & plays


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Beautiful.


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## wormil (Sep 6, 2012)

Nice looking harp. You mentioned protecting the idea, what is different about it? You don't have to talk about the construction, just wondering what effect is different.



Anyone looking for plans or supplies, check out Musicmakers. If you just want pins, they are inexpensive on eBay. Just search for zither pins.

- Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

wormil said:


> Nice looking harp. You mentioned protecting the idea, what is different about it? You don't have to talk about the construction, just wondering what effect is different.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Rick,for the source. He has it in his mind that his design is unique and doesn't want it copied. He owns several larger harps and designed this one so that it could be broke down and put in a suitcase and travel anywhere. I know nothing about harps or music and I just tried to make what he had in mind. 

Glad you liked it.

Herb


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

OutoftheWoodwork said:


> Woooooooow!
> That's absolutely GORGEOUS. I want to make a door harp. Still working out where to
> get the strings and set it up, however, and now that Bentley's been sold, I have to wait
> till we have our garage, too lol


So you sold 'Old Rusty' Hope you made one last sign and nailed it to his door. N


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

Wow Herb, that is absolutely awesome!!! From a few scraps of cardboard to that masterpiece is incredible. Such beautiful work. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY GIFTED.


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## firstmuller (Aug 28, 2014)

Very nice harp.

Allen


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## marecat3 (Nov 30, 2010)

love it. would love to hear how it sounds


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Herb-meister,

That is very-nice looking work. I am of the belief that for one to be the very best at making a musical instrument, that person must also be gifted in playing that instrument. With that being my personal theory and me not even being able to get even my radio to sound good, I will leave the musical instrument construction to those more gifted than me!

Good work and thanks for sharing!
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

OPG3 said:


> Herb-meister,
> 
> That is very-nice looking work. I am of the belief that for one to be the very best at making a musical instrument, that person must also be gifted in playing that instrument. With that being my personal theory and me not even being able to get even my radio to sound good, I will leave the musical instrument construction to those more gifted than me!
> 
> ...



ut-oh....

I best scratch off "build a guitar for SIL" off of my list right now!!! :lol::fie::no:


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## OutoftheWoodwork (Oct 4, 2012)

lol Neville, sorry to say I didn't, but its been hard just going in Bentley this year, being so out of sorts and not myself.
Once we have our house, I hope it will help me get back to myself and have some motivation.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> Herb-meister,
> 
> That is very-nice looking work. I am of the belief that for one to be the very best at making a musical instrument, that person must also be gifted in playing that instrument. With that being my personal theory and me not even being able to get even my radio to sound good, I will leave the musical instrument construction to those more gifted than me!
> 
> ...


Otis,
You are right. I never have built an instrument because of exactly that is my feeling too. As far as the playing part, this is Andrews' design and it took 5 revisions of the bridge/sound boards before he took it home to fully string it and play it. 
He would string 2 strings and adjust them and fiddle with it,then want a change in the bridge set up, so I would do that , then he would come back and do it again, etc.

To me it sounded good ,but to him it didn't. I have not heard from him since he took it, so can't tell you if it finally met his approval or not. I told him that if it didn't workout just bring it back and I will use it for a centerpiece on the table. A good conversation piece.

Herb


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## wormil (Sep 6, 2012)

Building and playing are different learned skill sets. I don't believe building requires playing anymore than playing requires the ability to build.

- Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Herb Stoops said:


> Otis,
> 
> To me it sounded good ,but to him it didn't. I have not heard from him since he took it, so can't tell you if it finally met his approval or not. I told him that if it didn't workout just bring it back and I will use it for a centerpiece on the table. A good conversation piece.
> 
> Herb


That's something I've been wondering about Herb. The frame of a harp forms a sounding board and putting joints in it might deaden the sound and take away some of the resonance that gives it its "voice".

Rick I agree with you to some extent but if I remember the story I read about Stradivarius correctly, he had his workers spend time each day playing the instruments they were making. Maybe he felt it was the way they could tell the difference between something that was just an average violin from one that was special.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

wormil said:


> Building and playing are different learned skill sets. I don't believe building requires playing anymore than playing requires the ability to build.
> 
> - Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


Rick,

if you can't play, you can build an instrument but it would only be factory level quality. If you want to build a good instrument, you do need to be able to play it to understand the subtleties. Note that Herb thought he had it right, but Andrew wasn't happy and went through 5 revisions to get the final prototype. I have two classical guitars - a $20 (second hand) Yamaha and a $1,000 Admira. The Yamaha is good, but the Admira is a lot better, and it is the difference between a factory instrument and a hand made instrument. 

Steinway pianos go through a woodwork tuning process towards the end of their build process where they adjust the action. (The action is the keys and everything connected to the keys that makes the strings make a sound.) This is a mechanical, not musical tuning, but it is done by a pianist as only a pianist knows what "feels" right. It's not that being a muso increases your woodworking skills. It's just that when the woodworking becomes more art than craft (e.g. bridge, soundboard, pegboard), your muso instincts tells you what makes better art. It's then up to your woodworking skills to turn that into reality.

Sorry for being so long on the post, but I hope this puts the muso - woodworker comments into perspective.

Darryl


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Herb, perhaps this video will be of help when you're ready to make a full size harp!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j3JfOP1tQ


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Herb, perhaps this video will be of help when you're ready to make a full size harp!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j3JfOP1tQ


What a wonderful video, Harry. I wish I had watched that before I started building this one. I see so many things I did wrong,and so many things that Andrew didn't know about the construction of a harp. He has several different sized ones and plays them all , But he knows not what it takes to make them right. 
I am making another one for myself for a lamp in the living room right now. It will only be to look at and not play.

I love that fellows shop, that is the kind of shops I like where the emphasis is on the project and not on all the gadgets that the woodworkers are being smothered with and brainwashed into thinking they have to have them if they want to be an expert woodworker.

Thanks Harry,
Herb


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## wormil (Sep 6, 2012)

Herb Stoops said:


> I see so many things I did wrong,and so many things that Andrew didn't know about the construction of a harp. He has several different sized ones and plays them all , But he knows not what it takes to make them right.
> Herb


Exactly my point. Players have no special intuition that helps them understand the mechanics behind instrument design. And it is just mechanics, there is no literal magic involved behind making an instrument playable and sound good. Highly skilled luthiers are highly skilled because they understand the mechanics and materials, can recognize good tone, and have dedication and practice; it has nothing to do with being able strum strings or peck on keys. Music and sound are so much more than skill in one instrument and there are many skill sets involved in instrument design and construction. The idea that only a player can build a quality instrument is an intuitive way of looking at the craft but one that fails quickly under analysis.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Herb Stoops said:


> What a wonderful video, Harry. I wish I had watched that before I started building this one. I see so many things I did wrong,and so many things that Andrew didn't know about the construction of a harp. He has several different sized ones and plays them all , But he knows not what it takes to make them right.
> I am making another one for myself for a lamp in the living room right now. It will only be to look at and not play.
> 
> I love that fellows shop, that is the kind of shops I like where the emphasis is on the project and not on all the gadgets that the woodworkers are being smothered with and brainwashed into thinking they have to have them if they want to be an expert woodworker.
> ...


I'm with you 100% on that guys shop Herb. There are so many gizmos these days that take the skill away from the woodworker and still don't guarantee a perfect job. Router tables are an example, I do far better work with my simple tall fence than when I used the Hi tech looking one with lots of bells and whistles.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> I'm with you 100% on that guys shop Herb. There are so many gizmos these days that take the skill away from the woodworker and still don't guarantee a perfect job. Router tables are an example, I do far better work with my simple tall fence than when I used the Hi tech looking one with lots of bells and whistles.


While we are on this subject, thank you ,Harry, do you have the construction of your fence posted? I would like to build one similar for my table( same as yours) , that garbage "precision" fence was not up to my standards. 

Also how did you handle the dust collection? in the fence only, or from below too? 

Rick, I agree wholeheartedly with you. I am not a musician,and not an instrument maker. That old fellow in the video knew that which he was doing , no hesitation about it.

Herb


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## paduke (Mar 28, 2010)

NPR station had interview on boutique instruments Three musician craftsmen participated. All began with zero mechanical experience and a desire for their own sound Their hit and miss journey thru the mechanics was interesting. I think that incorporating the conventional harp with his resonance chamber idea would produce a cool sound
I love idea development and am envious of your opportunity. Keep posting so at least I can do some vicarious living


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

paduke said:


> NPR station had interview on boutique instruments Three musician craftsmen participated. All began with zero mechanical experience and a desire for their own sound Their hit and miss journey thru the mechanics was interesting. I think that incorporating the conventional harp with his resonance chamber idea would produce a cool sound
> I love idea development and am envious of your opportunity. Keep posting so at least I can do some vicarious living


LOL Bill,you saw the saga with your own eyes, next time I will refer Andrew to you. 

It is frustrating to say the least to build something for someone else and then have them change it and you have to remove what you spent 2 days doing ,and do something else. And to do this as many as five times, when added together that is 10 days to accomplish 2 days work. It is one thing to be doing that for yourself,but it was clear to me that Andrew knew very little about building a harp and was doing it by trial and error. I was as patient as I could be, but it finally ran its course and I was convinced that he would never be completely satisfied no matter how good it played. 
Now I say fine, good for him, I hope he gets it to play like he wants, I tried to tell him that sometimes there is a limit to what a design will achieve and when that is reached, you have to come up with a new design. I think he appreciates the patience I had with him and the project, there comes a point I have to get back to my stuff.

Herb


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Herb Stoops said:


> While we are on this subject, thank you ,Harry, do you have the construction of your fence posted? I would like to build one similar for my table( same as yours) , that garbage "precision" fence was not up to my standards.
> 
> Also how did you handle the dust collection? in the fence only, or from below too?
> 
> ...


As can be seen in these two shots Herb, it's very basic. The first shot shows as it is now with a dedicated Bosch dust collector whilst the second shot as it was originally when it shared the two bag DC with the planer. No dust escapes from this arrangement, the DC comes on via a master/slave switch when the router is switched on. The last shot shows the master/slave switch.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

> Herb-meister,
> 
> That is very-nice looking work. I am of the belief that for one to be the very best at making a musical instrument, that person must also be gifted in playing that instrument. With that being my personal theory and me not even being able to get even my radio to sound good, I will leave the musical instrument construction to those more gifted than me!
> 
> ...





> Building and playing are different learned skill sets. I don't believe building requires playing anymore than playing requires the ability to build.
> 
> - Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


To Rick M: You are DEFINITELY CORRECT about them being different skill sets! NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! My comment was light-hearted and certainly not indicative of my true belief that a luthier must be a skilled musician. I know a couple of luthiers, and I've actually heard them joking about someone trying to do that type of work WITHOUT "an ear for music". It makes sense to me, but I AM CERTAIN THAT YOU KNOW MUCH MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THAN ME!

Have a Nice Day,
Otis Guillebeau from Auburn, Georgia


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> As can be seen in these two shots Herb, it's very basic. The first shot shows as it is now with a dedicated Bosch dust collector whilst the second shot as it was originally when it shared the two bag DC with the planer. No dust escapes from this arrangement, the DC comes on via a master/slave switch when the router is switched on. The last shot shows the master/slave switch.


Got It Harry, Thanks that helps a lot. 
Herb


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Herb, if you want some incentive to make a full size harp then take a look/listen to this, sent to me by friend and fellow member George.

A Little Girl Playing The Harp, Russia


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Herb, if you want some incentive to make a full size harp then take a look/listen to this, sent to me by friend and fellow member George.
> 
> A Little Girl Playing The Harp, Russia


Thanks Harry, what a delightful video, I venture to guess that harp is way beyond my capabilities. That little girl is extremely talented and will go a long ways.

Very enjoyable,
Herb


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

harrysin said:


> Herb, if you want some incentive to make a full size harp then take a look/listen to this, sent to me by friend and fellow member George.
> 
> A Little Girl Playing The Harp, Russia


The harp is bigger than what she is!


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

harrysin said:


> Herb, if you want some incentive to make a full size harp then take a look/listen to this, sent to me by friend and fellow member George.
> 
> A Little Girl Playing The Harp, Russia


Very beautiful to listen to and watch. Thanks for sharing Harry.

On a humorous note (no pun intended) did you notice that her little arms could not reach all the way to the far end of the harp? I suspect in an earlier attempt is when her wings fell off, lol.


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

Well Herb, a Harp maker is born. Goodbye Harpo Marx and Hello Harpo Herb!!! :jester::laugh::big_boss:


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## wormil (Sep 6, 2012)

OPG3 said:


> I know a couple of luthiers, and I've actually heard them joking about someone trying to do that type of work WITHOUT "an ear for music". It makes sense to me, but I AM CERTAIN THAT YOU KNOW MUCH MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THAN ME!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




An ear for music, or more specifically sound, is quite different than the ability to play a specific instrument. If you watch the harp building video the construction is entirely mechanical with frequent use of jigs. There are excellent books and other resources on building instruments. Give some a try and it will demystify the process considerably. 



Someone brought up factory quality vs high end. If the average person can match factory quality they are doing well. For some instruments, factory is the only reasonable choice for the majority.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

wormil said:


> An ear for music, or more specifically sound, is quite different than the ability to play a specific instrument. If you watch the harp building video the construction is entirely mechanical with frequent use of jigs. There are excellent books and other resources on building instruments. Give some a try and it will demystify the process considerably.
> 
> 
> 
> Someone brought up factory quality vs high end. If the average person can match factory quality they are doing well. For some instruments, factory is the only reasonable choice for the majority.


Rick,

that was me that mentioned factory quality, and I am speaking for myself, understanding that it is quite different for a lot of other people. This is my view on the world of instrument making, and with music being so subjective, it is not intended to be anything more than an opinion.

I am a muso and have worked with instrument makers to a very small degree, e.g. helping with jigs. As a woodworker, I understand (in principle) how to make an instrument. As a muso, I understand why they are made the way they are, and the effect on playability and musicianship. If I were building an instrument, I would be aiming to build an instrument at better than factory quality unless I was treating it as a training exercise, or I would just go and buy one. Factory quality instruments don't last as long, or play as well as quality instruments. Strings rattle in the nut or against the frets. The soundboard(s) somehow lose bass and midrange. The fretboard ends up with slight twists and bowing that puts the scale of one string out of sync with other strings. It can be very disconcerting to a muso for chords to be in tune in one part of the fretboard, but out of tune in another. I also know that non-muso's don't necessarily get these differences. On one occasion I don't think I will ever forget, I was asked to play a piano with an organist. After the first chord we both looked at each other in horror because the two instruments were so far out of tune with each, and I withdrew as soon as I could do so gracefully. Afterwards there were people who wanted to know why I stopped because it all sounded so "beautiful". The list goes on and on. I know my experience is different to everyone else's, but for me I would be making an instrument that I would want to play, and that would have to be better than factory quality. Anything different would be like trying to use tools bought from a cheap chain store after you have been used to using tools made for tradesmen and craftsmen (and women...)

That's my 2c worth, but I re-iterate that this is my personal position in a very subjective field.

Darryl


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## wormil (Sep 6, 2012)

No need to mince words, you are taking the position that factory made instruments are garbage. I don't begrudge you your opinion. And I agree there are many talented makers of instruments who are also musicians which makes sense, most non musicians are not interested. But you are conflating two different skill sets. Feel free to find a video of any instrument build that involves intuitive process and not knowledge and mechanical skill.

- Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


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## kklowell (Dec 26, 2014)

harrysin said:


> Herb, if you want some incentive to make a full size harp then take a look/listen to this, sent to me by friend and fellow member George.
> 
> A Little Girl Playing The Harp, Russia


Just wanted you to know, Harry, that when I read these posts it is with a headset on while I listen to older country music. I stopped my music to hear that little girl, and I'm glad I did. She is an incredible player and her music is wonderful. Thank you for posting that link for Herb, and all of us.


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## darsev (Feb 3, 2012)

wormil said:


> No need to mince words, you are taking the position that factory made instruments are garbage. I don't begrudge you your opinion. And I agree there are many talented makers of instruments who are also musicians which makes sense, most non musicians are not interested. But you are conflating two different skill sets. Feel free to find a video of any instrument build that involves intuitive process and not knowledge and mechanical skill.
> 
> - Rick M, sent via Tapatalk


Rick,

Maybe I was too brief in my comments. Factory instruments are not garbage, but they have limited usefulness and lifetime. As an example, they are useful as a first instrument when the musician is still discovering what sort of instrument matches their style(s).

As far as building with intuitive process only, the point I was trying to make is that both are required to make a quality instrument - it is not an either/or situation. There are many muso's I know that I would be reluctant to trust with a tape measure, let alone a chisel. But if someone has the woodworking skills, and is a muso, then there is the opportunity for a quality instrument to be made. 

Darryl


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## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

Is Koa good for building a Harp?
Thanks,


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

mighty fine Herb..


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

JOAT said:


> I believe that monyfillymint fishing like will work. For at first time effort anyway, but I do remember reading instructions on building some sort of stringed instrument or other and that is what was recommended to use - not all the same size tho.


Some info on the mono thing...
https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/strings


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Some info on the mono thing...
> https://manufacturing.dustystrings.com/harps/strings


I don't know how or why this old thread popped up, I think Mr.Stick breathed life back into it.

Dan I have taken a tour of Dusty Strings and they make absolutely beautiful harps, as a matter of fact Andrew knows the owner very well. By the way, he uses steel strings of graduated diameters.

I spent the day with Andrew today we are starting a revised edition from scratch of his harp. I have the frame built today and tomorrow we will start on the sound box.

Herb


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Beautiful work as always Herb . You certainly take on some interesting projects


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