# Height adjustment on table router



## Router Newbie (Jun 12, 2011)

Hi Guys, I am new to routing and am currently contemplating making a bench top router table for my Bosch POF500a plunge router. I was wondering how I would be able to make the height adjustment simpler as the resistance from the springs is quite strong and to do this and hold it steady, whilst measuring with one hand seemed daunting. Today I thought - "why not remove the springs when using the router in the table top?" I tried this with the router just hand held and it seems easy to adjust the height this way. Am I perhaps missing something or is it acceptable and safe to work this way?


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Router Newbie said:


> Hi Guys, I am new to routing and am currently contemplating making a bench top router table for my Bosch POF500a plunge router. I was wondering how I would be able to make the height adjustment simpler as the resistance from the springs is quite strong and to do this and hold it steady, whilst measuring with one hand seemed daunting. Today I thought - "why not remove the springs when using the router in the table top?" I tried this with the router just hand held and it seems easy to adjust the height this way. Am I perhaps missing something or is it acceptable and safe to work this way?


Hi Stan - Welcome to the forum
You'll be fine without the springs. Some router mfg recommend removing them anyway. Just keep them where you can find them for use out of the table.


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Stan, the springs function as a safety item by lifting the cutter inside of the router base when released. While you can use the router free hand with out the springs I would not recommend it. Removing the springs for use in a router table is the best way to go.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Mike said:


> Stan, the springs function as a safety item by lifting the cutter inside of the router base when released. While you can use the router free hand with out the springs I would not recommend it. Removing the springs for use in a router table is the best way to go.


Mike, Mike, Mike, I just have to butt in here and say that "not recommending" the router to be used hand held without springs is not strong enough language, a plunge router MUST NEVER, EVER be used without springs, it's just plain dangerous. The main safety feature of a plunge router is the fact that if a problem arises, simply release downward pressure and the bit safely returns to the body of the router under SPRING pressure!


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Router Newbie said:


> Hi Guys, I am new to routing and am currently contemplating making a bench top router table for my Bosch POF500a plunge router. I was wondering how I would be able to make the height adjustment simpler as the resistance from the springs is quite strong and to do this and hold it steady, whilst measuring with one hand seemed daunting. Today I thought - "why not remove the springs when using the router in the table top?" I tried this with the router just hand held and it seems easy to adjust the height this way. Am I perhaps missing something or is it acceptable and safe to work this way?


Welcome to the forum Stan. For table use the springs are always removed, with a router in good condition it's own weight will take it down, in any case it's good practice to set the bit lower than required then slowly bring it up to correct height. Some time ago I "purchased" a table top router table for the princely sum of $3.00 and fitted a Ryobi router. I made a simple mechanism that enabled height adjustment from above the table. The attached zip file contains shots from the thread that I posted at the time, I'm sure that most routers, providing that the table is high enough to allow full up and down movement could have a similar modification carried out.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Maybe only one adjustment/session. Not much need to extract springs then.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Router Workshop: Spring Removal

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## Router Newbie (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks again to all our learned contributors. I am relieved to see that springs can and should be removed. My router weighs only 5.6lbs so should be easy to adjust with one hand. (I have attached a photo to illustrate). Harry I appreciate your words of warning when using hand held and can promise never to use without springs in that mode. Your lift is a little beyond my abilities to construct at this stage. Pat, I like the idea of spacers and would like to know what material you recommend for them? Is hardboard suitable?
The other problem I found today, is that I cannot buy T track here as nobody supplies it! One manufacturer who lists it has min order of 250 kgs but gave me the name of their only customer who had bought in the last year. He said he had used it all up and doesn't use it anymore! Can you believe this? I am now looking at how to carry on without it. I can see it is easy enough to clamp the fence but what about featherboards, mitre fence etc?


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Router Newbie said:


> The other problem I found today, is that I cannot buy T track here as nobody supplies it!


Hi Stan

May I proffer a suggestion or two? Why not make your own. Rout out a groove with a straight bit then use a T-slot bit to cut the remainder. I think you might need a bigger router, though as I've only ever found T-slot cutters in 8mm and 1/2in shanks. That's the sort of cutter I've used to do T-slot for shop fittings where a special was needed. Works well in fine grained hardwoods, birch plywood and even melamine-faced MDF. 

Another possibility might be to cadge-up some slatboard offcut from a shop fitting firm (it's used in an awfull lot of retail outlets, is made by T-slot machining melamine-faced MDF, generally 18mm thick) and then face off the top with something like 4mm MDF or oil-tempered Masonite/hardboard. Not as long-lived as hardwood or an ally T-slot, but nonetheless a useable solution IMHO

Regards

Phil


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## Router Newbie (Jun 12, 2011)

Thanks Phil for your suggestions. I like the look of the keyhole cutter which has a 1/4 inch shank and could be a solution. I will also canvass some shopfitters for the slatboard and see if they know what I am talking about. Do I understand you correctly when you say "face off the top" meaning to cover the slatboard with a smooth surface either side of the one t track which is to be used? I managed to purchase a 6mm perspex plate 210 x 300mm this morning for my insert, so I am making slow progress. My router is very light so I believe this will be strong enough. We also do not have a suppier for all the ready made plates that are available in UK, USA etc. The good news is, that Walmart has recently taken over our Massmart which owns a number of stores such as Builder's Warehouse, Builder's Express, Makro, Game etc so maybe we will see better choices on offer in the not too distant future.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Router Newbie said:


> I will also canvass some shopfitters for the slatboard and see if they know what I am talking about.


They should do, Stan - go into many shops in Europe or the USA for that matter and you'll see walls and walls of it with the items for sale hung on hooks slotted into it. Sometimes called "slatwall". I've just thrown so much of that stuff into the skip/dumpster over the years. I reckon it's worth a punt if you can get it for nothing



Router Newbie said:


> Do I understand you correctly when you say "face off the top" meaning to cover the slatboard with a smooth surface either side of the one t track which is to be used?


Yes. It's just to give you a smooth surface to work on as well as adding a bit of strength. I'd also add a couple of softwood battens on the underside at right angkes to control any tendency of the top to curl

Regards

Phil


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Quillman said:


> Maybe only one adjustment/session. Not much need to extract springs then.


From the above link; 

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*I would avise against using cutters greater than 2" in length or diameter in a simple 110 volt router table.*
==========================

This really surprises me. R & S and raised panel bits are commonly used on a "simple 110 volt router table" and are typically over 2" diameter.

Mike


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I will 2nd your post, If you look at his neat fence and router table you will see it can't take on the bigger bits.I don't think he is into the full range of the router table and what it can do.. 
I have over 1000 router bits and I would say that 700 of them are over 1 1/2" in diam. not to say anything about the tall ones and all do well with the 110 volt router motor..

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mpbc48 said:


> From the above link;
> 
> ==========================
> *I would avise against using cutters greater than 2" in length or diameter in a simple 110 volt router table.*
> ...


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Bob,

I hadn't noticed the limitations of the table/fence. ":^) 

It's rather odd to "avise" people about bit size based upon the capabilities of the table/fence system rather than the router used. This comming from Pat Warner is what really threw me.

Mike


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

"It's rather odd to "avise" people about bit size based upon the capabilities of the table/fence system rather than the router used. This comming from Pat Warner is what really threw me." Mike.
**************************************************************

Perhaps a little misunderstanding?
In my view, it matters not the size of the router (albeit 110vac), big cutters are for shapers not routers. Moreover, I have been an expert witness on enough cases to affirm that big cutters do most of the mayhem, whether the router was used x hand or the most sophisticated of router tables. Before the 70's there were few cutters near 2". Shapers were the rule for doors, drawers and windows; they could stand the stress. Routers are toys in comparison.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Quillman said:


> Before the 70's there were few cutters near 2". Shapers were the rule for doors, drawers and windows; they could stand the stress. Routers are toys in comparison.


Hear! Hear! About time someone pointed up how near to the edge of the envelope some of these big cutters are running


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

I would take a router over a "shaper" any day of the week, routers have come a long way from the old days of the 70's ,most of the routers in the 70's where 1/4" shank and are not toys anymore IMOP they can do so much more now days.

I have panel bits that are 3 5/8" in diam. and I would never run them at 10,000 rpm that the shaper runs at.

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Quillman said:


> "It's rather odd to "avise" people about bit size based upon the capabilities of the table/fence system rather than the router used. This comming from Pat Warner is what really threw me." Mike.
> **************************************************************
> 
> Perhaps a little misunderstanding?
> In my view, it matters not the size of the router (albeit 110vac), big cutters are for shapers not routers. Moreover, I have been an expert witness on enough cases to affirm that big cutters do most of the mayhem, whether the router was used x hand or the most sophisticated of router tables. Before the 70's there were few cutters near 2". Shapers were the rule for doors, drawers and windows; they could stand the stress. Routers are toys in comparison.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

Let's assume this is academic, an arena to exchange ideas.
In that event, I would like to say that the established safe engineering limit for router bit cutting diameter & length, {depending on how they're weighted (designed)}, is ~4/1. That is, cutters whose lengths or cutting diameters are >4x their shank diameter, are fragile, subject to breakage, often not guaranteed, and frequently present balance problems. 3 & 4" cutting diameters are 6-8x their shank diameters. Imagine an accidental bump to a speed control, where a cutter balanced for 10KRPM, gets kicked up to 22KRPM! Stuff can fly apart.

Moreover, they're prone to resonance (even at slow speeds) and can get your table dancing & hummin' and chatter & split your stock; many of you folks know what I'm talking about. Shaper cutters of the same cutting profiles are big (dynamically balanced) fat chunks of steel on big arbors; they run for shifts not minutes. That stuff makes sense. Shaper operators have the fixturing & knowledge to run these things.

Of course, big panel router cutters are ubiquitous; there are many reasons for that but the essential reason is that they sell. It would be prudent & worth while for the reader, especially the newcomers, to have some idea of the risks using big cutters.


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## mpbc48 (Sep 17, 2010)

I guess I'll have to defer to those much more experienced than I, but this is the first time I've read anything about impending doom if one should be foolish enough to use a bit larger than 2" with a mere 110 volt router.

The article; Copyright © 2009 Pat Warner Last modified: Thu Aug 18 07:11:12 PDT 2005, isn't making reference to routers of the 1970's. I speculate Pat is advising on the extreme side of caution and safety. Like he wrote, he holds a contrarian view.

Mike


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> I would take a router over a "shaper" any day of the week, routers have come a long way from the old days of the 70's ,most of the routers in the 70's where 1/4" shank and are not toys anymore IMOP they can do so much more now days.


Bob, no disrespect intended, but somehow I don't think you've ever used a proper commercial/industrial shaper (spindle moulder) with good quality modern tooling. They a world away from the "home shop specials" sold as hobby machines in terms of rigidity and in a completely different league to a router in a table. Against them a router in a table really is a toy 

Personally, I feel that with the largest router panel raisers people are asking an awful lot of a very small set of bearings which aren't exactly rigidly mounted - strip down a router and look at how small the aluminium bottom casting of the router is and how little plastic holds the upper bearing in place. With such large cutters it is possible to push a 1/2in diameter (34.2mm cross section) shank near to (or beyond) its' limit in some circumstances, especially if the cutter is made in some back-street factory in China with minimal metallurgical testing or quality control facilities. By way of comparison large diameter CNC router tooling is often mounted on either a minimum of a 19mm shaft (59.7mm cross section) or bored to be used on a 30mm (94.3mm cross section) shank. Compare the cross sections - then consider that CNC router tooling is generally no larger in overall diameter and in larger sizes may be running at feeds as low as 1 to 3 metres/min (3.5 to 10 ft/min)

I agree that routers have come a long way since the 1970s, but 1/2in router bearings aren't really any bigger now than they were then. And with even the biggest routers generally having base openings of no more than 80mm (3in) - 40 to 50mm (1-5/8in to 2in) is much more the norm - could it be that the manufacturers are trying to tell us something, I wonder?

Like some othere here I'm in this to make some sort of a living and it ill behouves me to do too many rash actions. Unlike lizards I for one _can't_ grow new fingers if I screw things up!

Safe routing!

Regards

Phil


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Phil

No disrespect taken I had one for about 5 years and it was a nightmare to use than I found out about the router table and got that junk out of my shop, I had many many cutters for it I will say they are great for making molding but that's it ,I don't just make molding..

If you want to use a full roll of TP try making a arch panel door with one..or just simple box joints..or a simple dado slots....etc.

For me it's a tool I can live with out in my shop....


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Phil P said:


> Bob, no disrespect intended, but somehow I don't think you've ever used a proper commercial/industrial shaper (spindle moulder) with good quality modern tooling. They a world away from the "home shop specials" sold as hobby machines in terms of rigidity and in a completely different league to a router in a table. Against them a router in a table really is a toy
> 
> Personally, I feel that with the largest router panel raisers people are asking an awful lot of a very small set of bearings which aren't exactly rigidly mounted - strip down a router and look at how small the aluminium bottom casting of the router is and how little plastic holds the upper bearing in place. With such large cutters it is possible to push a 1/2in diameter (34.2mm cross section) shank near to (or beyond) its' limit in some circumstances, especially if the cutter is made in some back-street factory in China with minimal metallurgical testing or quality control facilities. By way of comparison large diameter CNC router tooling is often mounted on either a minimum of a 19mm shaft (59.7mm cross section) or bored to be used on a 30mm (94.3mm cross section) shank. Compare the cross sections - then consider that CNC router tooling is generally no larger in overall diameter and in larger sizes may be running at feeds as low as 1 to 3 metres/min (3.5 to 10 ft/min)
> 
> ...


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Bob

As I said there is a huge difference between a small home-shop shaper and a "proper" one. the sort of thing I'm used to using looks a lot like this (the big thing on top is a power feeder). They do come in smaller sizes than that one, but the principles are all the same - with the right tooling they can do everything a router table can and more, but what they won't do is flip over and rout an edge for you!

Regards

Phil


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Phil

I see your point but who wants to buy a 8,000.oo shaper for the home shop ,I had a power feed for my shaper but on a smaller scale..

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-4-HP-Power-Feeder/G4176

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Phil P said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> As I said there is a huge difference between a small home-shop shaper and a "proper" one. the sort of thing I'm used to using looks a lot like this (the big thing on top is a power feeder). They do come in smaller sizes than that one, but the principles are all the same - with the right tooling they can do everything a router table can and more, but what they won't do is flip over and rout an edge for you!
> 
> ...


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## crazycol (Feb 13, 2007)

i have used this router lift for years. its simple and great. plus its very cheap too.


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