# Problem Fitting cutter In Router



## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

I have a Dewalt 625 router set in a Triton router table. This is the first time I've fitted a cutter into the collett nut. I fitted it in as far as it would go, then tightened up the nut. I followed the instructions in the Dewalt manual. The cutter is nowhere near the top of the router table. I don't seem to be able to adjust the depth any more. I read 3/4 of the cutter shank should be held securely in the collet, I fitted it all the way in, I loosened the collet nut, but now I can't remove the cutter. I took care and tried with a pair of pliers, no luck.
Cheers.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Peter

Firstly, can you get the collet and cutter out of the router? The type of collet used on a DW625 has a second "hard" point as you unscrew it where it seems to almost lock then if you keep turning it eventually releases. 

The design of collet used on a DW625 needs to be "clicked" into the collet nut - the outer end of the collet is sprung and is held in the nose by it's own spring action and the internally machined ledge. Once clicked together the face of the collet is flush with the face of the nut and it takes some effort to separate the two items. I generally drift mine out with a length of dowel rod

As to the cutter, I don't think you shouldn't install a cutter to absolute full depth in the collet. I always back mine out by a couple of millimetres or (if the shank is short) ensure that the top of the cutter is at least 5mm clear of the nut (so the fillet at the bottom of the shank doesn't damage the collet or cause the bit to jam in the collet). 

If you still can't get the cutter high enough on your Triton router table you may need to invest in a collet extender such as the excellent Axcaliber one by Axminster Power Tools which has the advantage of using high quality multi-slot spring collets which are a world away in accuracy and quality from some of the more second rate one and two slot collets offered by many of the competition

Regards

Phil


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi Phil,
Thanks for that. " The type of collet used on a DW625 has a second "hard" point as you unscrew it where it seems to almost lock then if you keep turning it eventually releases. " I will have a go at unlocking it, 

" As to the cutter, I don't think you shouldn't install a cutter to absolute full depth in the collet. I always back mine out by a couple of millimetres or (if the shank is short) ensure that the top of the cutter is at least 5mm clear of the nut (so the fillet at the bottom of the shank doesn't damage the collet or cause the bit to jam in the collet " 
OK, I have read should leave 5mm? gap so heat isn't transfered from cutter to armature of router.
Have ordered the collet extender from Ebay, best price around. Will have a go at getting cutter out on Tuesday, will get back to you and let you know how I get on.
Cheers,
Peter.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Peter



Gaia said:


> OK, I have read should leave 5mm? gap so heat isn't transfered from cutter to armature of router.


Not sure about that Peter. The main thing I watch out for is that the fillet where the shank meets the body of the router is well clear of the collet. Pushing the cutter in too far (so that the fillet is inside the collet) causes permanent damage to the collet, even if you only do it once



Gaia said:


> Have ordered the collet extender from Ebay, best price around.


Good luck with it. Collet extenders can cause a bit of extra vibration, so best to be aware of that. Even so it shouldn't be too much more than without it installed unless you have a bad one. BTW, mind if I ask how much you paid?

A point about cutters if you weren't aware. The more "professional" a cutter is the longer its' shank......... at least in the Trend range. The low-cost kits have relatively short shanks, the green Craft-Pro are longer, the Trade range longer still and the professional ones are the longest of them all (from comparisons in a few instances). Obviously the longer the shank the more suitable the cutter is for router table use.

Good luck!

Regards

Phil


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Missed you yesterday. Ebay £32.50 buy it now inc free delivery. Will look at router cutter later on today and get back to you then.
Cheers,
Peter.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Gaia said:


> Hi Phil,
> Thanks for that. " The type of collet used on a DW625 has a second "hard" point as you unscrew it where it seems to almost lock then if you keep turning it eventually releases. " I will have a go at unlocking it,
> 
> " As to the cutter, I don't think you shouldn't install a cutter to absolute full depth in the collet. I always back mine out by a couple of millimetres or (if the shank is short) ensure that the top of the cutter is at least 5mm clear of the nut (so the fillet at the bottom of the shank doesn't damage the collet or cause the bit to jam in the collet "
> ...


Hi Phil,
See my other post for best price of cutter, I think I've found this 2nd hard point on the nut, it resists anymore turning, I've exerted quite a lot of force on it, does not seem to want to budge anymore, I don't want to cause any damage?

I have a set of Silverline cutters, comes with a 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 16mm and 18mm straight cutters. Thursday I'm buying a Wickes 1500W router, I want to use this to practise plunge routing mortise holes on scrap wood. I understand I drill a hole to start off the straight cutter,the wood drill bits Wickes have are different sizes to the cutters, could you advise please?
Wickes - Search
Is there a speel checker for these posts 
Regards,
Peter.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Gaia said:


> I think I've found this 2nd hard point on the nut, it resists anymore turning, I've exerted quite a lot of force on it, does not seem to want to budge anymore, I don't want to cause any damage?


Hi Peter

Are you sure you're turning it the right way (anti-clockwise)? I've never had too many problems with this router, so I'm now beginning to wonder if you've got a crossed thread there. It's probably better if you contact me on the phone as there are a couple of queries I have here. If interested, please PM me



Gaia said:


> I have a set of Silverline cutters, comes with a 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 16mm and 18mm straight cutters. Thursday I'm buying a Wickes 1500W router, I want to use this to practise plunge routing mortise holes on scrap wood. I understand I drill a hole to start off the straight cutter,the wood drill bits Wickes have are different sizes to the cutters, could you advise please?


If your router cutters have plunge centres there is no need to pre-drill. Just make your cuts in progressively deeper passes, say 3 to 4mm a time, clearing out the waste from time to time (vacuum cleaner). If you are going to mortise with a router it is much safer to have two fences (one either side) and longer fence rods. The DW625 uses 10mm fence rods; 10mm diam. ground silver steel rod can be obtained in 1 metre lengths from most engineering suppliers for under a tenner (£10). That will make two 500mm fence rods with a bit of sawing and filing of the ends. A second DW625 fence can be had on eBay for £25 to £35. 

As an aside Festool now do a superb self-centring accessory base (the #495246) for mortising, but it only works on their OF1400 and OF2200 routers as far as I know (although it should be possible to fit it to any 1/2in plunge router). The price is the usual Festool in orbit figure, too - £120 or so :cray: I suppose there's always Tage Frid's mortising jig as included in his excellent books; Highland hardware in the USA have posted it on their web site, here

Not sure I'd buy a Wickes router if I had a DW625 - I'd probably take the deWalt to my local deWalt dealer and get him to look at it first

Regards

Phil


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi again,
Thanks for the helpful tips. I'm sure I've been turning nut the right way, will check again Thursday morning and let you know. I don't think the cutters have plunge centres, can you give me a link to a picture of one that does, so I can verify?
I'm getting the Wickes router as it saves all the hassle of removing the DW625 from the table and putting it back. Fitting was not so straightforward in the Triton, but got there eventually with help from forum members I do hope I've not messed up the Dewalt.
Cheers.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Gaia said:


> I don't think the cutters have plunge centres, can you give me a link to a picture of one that does, so I can verify?


Hi Peter

They're easy enough to spot (in fact most straight cutters these days are plunge cut ones). The cutters either have the two carbide tips arranged so they meet in the centre, or they have a third piece of V-ground carbide brazed onto the underside of the cutter. Simplest way to check is just to try doing a plunge cut - if the bits aren't designed for the purpose they'll refuse to go much more than a couple of millimetres in and when you remove the router there will be a distinctive ring with a raised pip left standing up in the middle. To be honest I've only ever found non-plunge bits in cheap sets (at least in recent years). Almost all the reputable (European) manufactuers/vendors sell only a limited range of them - and they clearly mark them as non-plunge

Edit: Just an additional thought about mortising. It's possible to make a very simple jig using a piece of flat stock and two dowels for shallow mortising which will self-centre on the stock. Of course there's the Trend version which you can buy, but I've just found an article on the net describing a really cheap home-made version. Simple to make and much cheaper than the second fence approach. Or the Trend jig.

Regards

Phil


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

" (in fact most straight cutters these days are plunge cut ones) " = Not the norm in the states 

MLCS Plunge Cutting Straight Router Bits

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/2641-mortise-tenon-jig-plunge-router.html

========



Phil P said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> They're easy enough to spot (in fact most straight cutters these days are plunge cut ones). The cutters either have the two carbide tips arranged so they meet in the centre, or they have a third piece of V-ground carbide brazed onto the underside of the cutter. Simplest way to check is just to try doing a plunge cut - if the bits aren't designed for the purpose they'll refuse to go much more than a couple of millimetres in and when you remove the router there will be a distinctive ring with a raised pip left standing up in the middle. To be honest I've only ever found non-plunge bits in cheap sets (at least in recent years). Almost all the reputable (European) manufactuers/vendors sell only a limited range of them - and they clearly mark them as non-plunge
> 
> ...


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

bobj3 said:


> " (in fact most straight cutters these days are plunge cut ones) " = Not the norm in the states


In the UK, Bob, where both of us are that isn't the case. However here we rarely see fixed base routers - most of ours are the superior plunger designs..........


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Just tried the nut again, no joy. Bought the following book in UK about a week ago, Shop-Built Jigs & Fixtures Amazon.com: Used and New: Shop-Built Jigs & Fixtures (Woodsmith Custom Woodworking) 

I actually got the hardback version as new condition for £6 inc postage. Got it make a tenoning jig for the Triton table saw. I expect you know, that the mitre track in the table saw is not a standard size. Also factory made jigs look really well made etc, like the Rockler heavy duty one, though it seems they won't fit in the Triton. The Rockler seems the best bet, though is out of my budget at the moment. I will look into my cutters again and get back to you Friday.
Cheers.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks for the input bob.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Hi all,
Am attaching couple of pictures of cutter in router. If you enlarge and look closely you can see that the blade of the cutter is above the rim of the collet. Perhaps if I put a few drops of WD 40 on the collet rim, I'll be able to remove the cutter? I bought the Wickes router yesterday for mortise cutting.Also looking for the best price in my area for silver steel rod, so I can fit two fence guides.
Cheers.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Gaia said:


> Hi all,
> Am attaching couple of pictures of cutter in router. If you enlarge and look closely you can see that the blade of the cutter is above the rim of the collet. Perhaps if I put a few drops of WD 40 on the collet rim, I'll be able to remove the cutter? I bought the Wickes router yesterday for mortise cutting.Also looking for the best price in my area for silver steel rod, so I can fit two fence guides.
> Cheers.


Hi Peter - That cutter looks awfully deep into the collet to me. I'm guessing the collet and nut are seperated and the collet is jammed in the armature. The nut can't turn further as it has come up against the bottom of the cutter. My next move would be to drop the motor out of the table and try to drift it out with a hammer and wooden dowel. h34r:


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

jschaben said:


> That cutter looks awfully deep into the collet to me. I'm guessing the collet and nut are seperated and the collet is jammed in the armature.


I'd second that, Peter. I've magnified the photograph in PaintShop and you can clearly see the gaps between the separate segments of the collet - if the collet is working correctly there would be no visible gaps between the segments - that makes me think that you've pushed the cutter in so far that the fillet at the bottom of the shank where it meets the body of the cutter (a fillet is a radiused area) has spread the collet. Tightening this would permanently distort the collet, so when you get it out throw the collet away and get a new one from a deWalt or Trend agent (circa £21).

In terms of getting it out I'd remove the router from the table and go to work with a pair of Mole grips, a deadblow hammer and a hardwood wedge to try and gently ease the cutter out of the collet a little so that hopefully you can unlock the collet nut. This may destroy the cutter. If you have doubts about doing this then get your local deWalt agent to do it for you.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

Regards

Phil

PS Tried ringing you but couldn't make contact

PPS The cutter you've installed is not a plunge cutter. To plunge cut mortises without drilling you need a cutter with a plunge centre, like these. Note the extra V-point across the bottom of the largest cutter (at the top of the page) and the overlap of the carbide on the smaller ones


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

snapshots

=====


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

OK thanks John.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Thanks again for the tips. I will try your method of removing the cutter.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

*Correct Size Mortise Router Cutter For Door*



Phil P said:


> I'd second that, Peter. I've magnified the photograph in PaintShop and you can clearly see the gaps between the separate segments of the collet - if the collet is working correctly there would be no visible gaps between the segments - that makes me think that you've pushed the cutter in so far that the fillet at the bottom of the shank where it meets the body of the cutter (a fillet is a radiused area) has spread the collet. Tightening this would permanently distort the collet, so when you get it out throw the collet away and get a new one from a deWalt or Trend agent (circa £21).
> 
> In terms of getting it out I'd remove the router from the table and go to work with a pair of Mole grips, a deadblow hammer and a hardwood wedge to try and gently ease the cutter out of the collet a little so that hopefully you can unlock the collet nut. This may destroy the cutter. If you have doubts about doing this then get your local deWalt agent to do it for you.
> 
> ...


Hi Phil,
I'm interested in making interior and exterior house doors. The cutter set you refered me to has a 1/4 inch shank they do do a 1/2 inch set. The diameter of the biggest cutter is 15.8mm. Trend also have single cutters see, ( http://www.tooled-up.com/artwork/ProdPDF/TRENpage_079.pdf ) Would 15.8mm be the optimum size for a door mortise?Seems silly to spend getting the other cutters in the set I think I should just get a single one.

Is their any advantage to getting a 1/4 inch shank over a 1/2 inch shank?
I have a BQ Value router, ( seems this is a rebadged brand name router ) is 1020W got it for door hinges, has a collet size of 6.35mm/8mm.

When cutting the mortise do I utilise some type of end stop or just rely on my eye?
The ends of the mortise slot will be curved the tenon is square. A drill press would do the job but much more expensive.
Any tips would be much appreciated,
Cheers,
Peter.


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## Gaia (Feb 20, 2010)

Phil P said:


> Hi Peter
> 
> Firstly, can you get the collet and cutter out of the router? The type of collet used on a DW625 has a second "hard" point as you unscrew it where it seems to almost lock then if you keep turning it eventually releases.
> 
> ...


Hi again Phil,
My brother in law just had a look at the collet nut and cutter, he is quite mechanical. As I mentioned I found the hard point on the nut and used quite a lot of force to try to undo the nut, no luck, I didn't want to over do and damage the router. Seemed I was being too gentle as he got the nut undone. Though the collet won't come out of the nut but is revolving loose in itYou say, " Once clicked together the face of the collet is flush with the face of the nut and it takes some effort to separate the two items. I generally drift mine out with a length of dowel rod. " 
Regards,
Peter.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Gaia said:


> The cutter set you refered me to has a 1/4 inch shank they do do a 1/2 inch set. The diameter of the biggest cutter is 15.8mm.


Hi Peter

I wasn't particularly recommending that set, it was just the first illustration I found where the plunge tips were clearly discernable. I'd say use 1/2in shanks for sizes above about 12mm or 1/2in and 8mm or 1/4in shank for smaller sizes. I've found that large diameter shanks with small cutting diameters do temd to be weal at the point where they reduce down from tha shank - or maybe it's just something to do with larger routers having greater torque.

As to sizes, a 17mm mortise (for example) can be made using multiple passes of a 12mm cutter. I do it all the time when mortising door locks. Look through the site for information about using guide bushes



Gaia said:


> When cutting the mortise do I utilise some type of end stop or just rely on my eye?
> The ends of the mortise slot will be curved the tenon is square. A drill press would do the job but much more expensive


Do whatever you are happiest with. Personally I prefer to use a guide bush and jig or longer fence rods (for the DW625 10mm diameter silver steel rod from any engineers suppliers works) and TWO fences, one either side (see here). There is a good intro to the subject on the Trend web site, here and here. I'd recommend perusing the Trend knowledge base as it conytains a huge amount of accurate, knowledgeable information garnered from working with professional tradesmen over many years



Gaia said:


> My brother in law just had a look at the collet nut and cutter, he is quite mechanical. As I mentioned I found the hard point on the nut and used quite a lot of force to try to undo the nut, no luck, I didn't want to over do and damage the router. Seemed I was being too gentle as he got the nut undone. Though the collet won't come out of the nut but is revolving loose in it You say, " Once clicked together the face of the collet is flush with the face of the nut and it takes some effort to separate the two items. I generally drift mine out with a length of dowel rod. "


Glad that you got it apart. It can be difficult to provide the full answer to such a problem over the Internet, after all nobody wants to be responsible for wrecking a tool such as an expensive router, even by remote control! Once again I'd strongly recommend that you treat the collet as suspect and replace it because the jam has probably damaged it

Regards

Phil


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