# Template



## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Hello all. I hope that I am posting in the appropriate section. I was very impressed by the warm welcome that I received recently and was encouraged to ask questions if necessary. Well, I am here to ask.

I posted a photo in the "New Member Introductions" sub-forum of an acoustic panel that I wish to construct. I also mentioned that I purchased a Craftsman router thinking that it would be the right tool for the job.

For the most part the panels will measure 48" x 24" x 3" or 6" deep.

Now this is my thinking:

I thought that I would perhaps create a template based on the oval cutout seen on the 24" panel (top + bottom of panel) I could then use said template to make the slats on the side planks which are 48" in length.

I do not know how I am going to create this template (wood / plexiglass). And. if I did, how would I fasten it to the individual panels so that I might use my router to make the clean / straight cutouts. Would I clamp it down flat against the planks to be cut? I could also choose to go with the other option where circular holes were made in the planks but then I suppose that I would need a drill press to do this properly. Which I do not possess. I am also not that fond of the look. In the event that I keep the wood exposed.

I would also like to know what bit I would use if the router is what I end up using. I will attach a photo here as well.

I hope that I am making some sense! I really appreciate all the help that I can get. Peter


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

drill guide for the round holes...
do not cut the slots w/ the router w/o hogging out the material w/ a jigsaw 1st...
use the router w/ a trim bit to dress the slot's sides...
Freud Tools - Search Results for helix
make the template from any wood sheet goods ya have... can the pliglas plan..
do you have access to a table saw???


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

drill guide for the round holes...

Actually, I had my heart set on the panel with the cutout slots.

do not cut the slots w/ the router w/o hogging out the material w/ a jigsaw 1st...
use the router w/ a trim bit to dress the slot's sides...

make the template from any wood sheet goods ya have... can the pliglas plan..
do you have access to a table saw???

By the way, who makes that drill guide?
Something just occurred to me, my son-in-law has a drill press. I suppose that would do

Thanks so much for the info / advice @Stick486. Unfortunately, I do not have a table saw. 
Don't have a jigsaw either but can borrow one. Boy, I'm hitting a thousand am I not?

What would I use the table for? If necessary I can always look for something used.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

By the way, who makes that drill guide?

I do not have a table saw.
I would be looking for one...Promax
pass on the Ryobie... *VOE*.....
Don't have a jigsaw either but can borrow one. Boy, I'm hitting a thousand am I not?
put a Bosch on your Xmas list...

What would I use the table for? 
cutting material...
easiest tool to make a template for those slots...
If necessary I can always look for something used.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

@Stick486 Thanks again. I don't even know if the Promax brand is sold in Canada. Is it somehow tied to the Bench Dog brand? All I come up with is cast iron router table when I do a Google search.

I contacted someone online earlier about a Skilsaw table saw. He was selling it for 95.00. When I asked him to provide me with a model number he went MIA.

There are plenty of used tables on Facebook marketplace within close proximity to where I live. I just don't enough about the hardware in general to make a proper decision. 

Any recommendations (beside Promax) if I should go the used route?

Patience and some research I guess. Oh, and this forum of course!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

hardware we know...
just ask...


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## Danman1957 (Mar 14, 2009)

Peter,
I showed my son the 2 designs and he said the second one is too much work for the end result. You don't need the holes on the sides even if you choose the first design. The first one will be solid and much easier to build. If you need advice on a Marketplace find I would be happy to consult for free. So you don't need a drill guide or drill press for now. You could definitely use a table saw if you don't have one, unless you don't plan on any other woodworking projects. You could give a cutting list to wherever you buy your wood from and for a fee(usually $1/cut) they can give you what you need. If you don't have clamps for glue ups you can use screws (pre-drill pilot holes)
What area of Laval do you live in ? maybe we can get together to discuss your project.
Cheers,
Dan


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Danman1957 said:


> Peter,
> I showed my son the 2 designs and he said the second one is too much work for the end result. You don't need the holes on the sides even if you choose the first design. The first one will be solid and much easier to build.Cheers,
> Dan


Good day Dan

So nice of you to get back to me. I wasn't really fond of the design that featured the holes (never a big fan of Swiss cheese)

If you need advice on a Marketplace find I would be happy to consult for free. So you don't need a drill guide or drill press for now. You could definitely use a table saw if you don't have one, unless you don't plan on any other woodworking projects.

If I can pick up a used table saw for a reasonable price I would do so. I am putting together a tools / supply list as we speak actually. I will attach it to this post.

You could give a cutting list to wherever you buy your wood from and for a fee(usually $1/cut) they can give you what you need.

I was planning on having the folks at either Reno Depot or Home Depot rip my MDF 4'x8' into 3" and 6" x 8' lengths. Easier to transport and work with once I get back home.

I was pleasantly surprised when a few minutes ago I received an email message from my son-in-law. In it, he attached a Solidworks plan for the acoustic panel. I will attach that as well. This fellow is so talented. Oh, and what a guitarist!

If you don't have clamps for glue ups you can use screws (pre-drill pilot holes)
I may pick up a few clamps.

What area of Laval do you live in ? maybe we can get together to discuss your project.

I live in close proximity to the large hospital which is located on Boulevard René-Laennec, Laval, QC H7M 3L9. Actually, we're not that far from the mall Le Carrefour Laval. If you're ever in the area we could together for a cup of Joe. It would certainly be a pleasure.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Here are some used table saw brands that I came across. Any recommendations. Certain makes / models I should stay away from like the plague?

Craftsman - Skilsaw - Delta - Rockwell


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

peterbata said:


> Here are some used table saw brands that I came across. Any recommendations. Certain makes / models I should stay away from like the plague?
> 
> Craftsman - Skilsaw - Delta - Rockwell


Craftsman - *NO*... support and parts are a serious problem...

Skilsaw - leaves a lot to be desired..

Delta/Rockwell - need model numbers..

Bosch 4100 - you can't go wrong...


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Peter; the great thing about woodworking and woodworkers advice is that you'll discover that there are a _lot of ways to skin cats_. Many suggestions are focused on efficiency and accuracy, but until you've built up your own tool collection, and the accompanying experience, you'll be facing this sort of conundrum frequently. Don't be discouraged; we've all been there. A tool acquisition priority list couldn't hurt, but the one piece of advice I'd give (in two parts) is buy only quality brand names...aftermarket service is really important...and stay away from used power tools. A good chance they're either 'hot' or somebody else's headache. There are exceptions of course, but again for that you need hands on experience.
Keep your eyes open for Estate Sales if you really want 'experienced 'tools.
Take up Montreal Dan's offer; he's a great guy and you'll learn a lot


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> Peter; the great thing about woodworking and woodworkers advice is that you'll discover that there are a _lot of ways to skin cats_. Many suggestions are focused on efficiency and accuracy, but until you've built up your own tool collection, and the accompanying experience, you'll be facing this sort of conundrum frequently. Don't be discouraged; we've all been there. A tool acquisition priority list couldn't hurt, but the one piece of advice I'd give (in two parts) is buy only quality brand names...aftermarket service is really important...and stay away from used power tools. A good chance they're either 'hot' or somebody else's headache. There are exceptions of course, but again for that you need hands on experience.
> Keep your eyes open for Estate Sales if you really want 'experienced 'tools.
> Take up Montreal Dan's offer; he's a great guy and you'll learn a lot


You're absolutely right about "quality brand names" I agree wholeheartedly. That has always been my philosophy especially when it came / comes to audio gear.

Estate Sales great idea except that could take a while and I would like to get started.

And like any other hobby, one could get carried away and end up spending a boat load of $$$ on items that you either don't need or will never / hardly use. Slippery slope!

As far as Montreal Dan's offer. I welcome the opportunity.

Thank you so much. Have a safe and wonderful day! Peter


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Hi Peter, I don't know if I posted this for you before, but it sounds like you're nearer the beginning of the woodworking journey than the end. So here's a pdf of the 17 plus things that helped me accelerate the learning curve going from home improvement to woodworking. Hope it saves you some mistakes and missteps. Lots of pictures and some suggestions and recommendations on tools. For example, if I were getting my first budget table saw, it would be a Bosch 4100 10 inch job site saw, which is on sale at Lowes in U.S. for $100 off now. Having a table saw pretty much marks the transition from home improvement to woodworking. At any rate, here's the pdf. It's long and fairly detailed.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

peterbata said:


> Hello all. I hope that I am posting in the appropriate section. I was very impressed by the warm welcome that I received recently and was encouraged to ask questions if necessary. Well, I am here to ask.
> 
> I posted a photo in the "New Member Introductions" sub-forum of an acoustic panel that I wish to construct. I also mentioned that I purchased a Craftsman router thinking that it would be the right tool for the job.
> 
> ...


Clamps or double faced tape to hold the template to the panels to be cut. MDF makes nice templates but the MDF dust is not a lot of fun to work with. What wood will you use for the final project? Maybe use that for the template too? Poplar is a nice wood to use for templates.....easy to work with. Can you use the piece in your picture to make your template?


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Peter, I use 1/4" plywood for templates. It is easy to work with and san be used many times. "sureply" from Lowes/Home depot works good.
I would stay away from MDF for anything unless you have good dust collection. Double back tape is good for attaching the template as mentioned above.
Herb


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> Hi Peter, I don't know if I posted this for you before, but it sounds like you're nearer the beginning of the woodworking journey than the end. So here's a pdf of the 17 plus things that helped me accelerate the learning curve going from home improvement to woodworking. Hope it saves you some mistakes and missteps. Lots of pictures and some suggestions and recommendations on tools. For example, if I were getting my first budget table saw, it would be a Bosch 4100 10 inch job site saw, which is on sale at Lowes in U.S. for $100 off now. Having a table saw pretty much marks the transition from home improvement to woodworking. At any rate, here's the pdf. It's long and fairly detailed.


Thank you so much for taking the time to write me and provide me with that very valuable PDF. I look forward to reading it. I can use all the help that I can get at the moment. Have a great evening Peter.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Some of the old Rockwell's were very good saws with the possible flaw that the distance from the back of the blade to the back of the table was a bit short , but that can be fixed with an outfeed table. A friend of mine wanted to upgrade from his Rockwell and sold me his old one for $100. It was already wired for 220 which was great with me. This is a back up saw to my Unisaw and to be honest, it will do most of what my Unisaw will do and was about $2300 cheaper. By the way, some of the old Craftsman saws were probably Rockwells. If they are all cast iron tops they might be a good deal. Steer away from any of the newer ones. You'd be looking for earlier than late 70s, early 80s models.

Mdf works fine for templates but will wear fairly quickly so if you plan to keep it and use it often you should harden the edges with thin CA glue.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

@Cherryville Chuck Thank you for chiming in. I don't see many Rockwell machines on the used market in the area that I live in. I did come across one (I will attach a pic $100 negotiable). The owner says it functions well but needs a little love) I take that to mean A Little Love = Many hours of repair. I do NOT possess that level of expertise by any stretch of the imagination. What I find strange is that in many cases where I ask for the age of the unit many sellers come back with a response that they don't know. I think that they DO know but just don't want to say!

Sounds to me like you scored a pretty sweet deal on your Rockwell.

Could I not use a 3/8" piece of plywood instead. I can always glue the MDF edges as you stated. Great suggestion by the way.

Note: The last pic is a Delta. But, you already knew that, right! Have a safe and wonderful evening wherever you may be. Peter


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## MEBCWD (Jan 14, 2012)

Peter do you have any handsaws? I'm trying to figure out how you plan on cutting the panels to size. If that is what you have you could use a handsaw to get rid of most of the waste material buy doing a plunge cut with the tip of the saw to get it started. Even a keyhole saw would help.

The big problem I see is the lack of tools available right now. To make the template I would say you will need a saw of some kind to help get rid of waste material, then you can use your router and flush trim bit to cut the straight sides for the hole of the template. If the radius of the flush trim bit is large enough for you for the inner corners of the hole, then you can flush the straight edges up at the corners and rout completely around the inside to finish the template. If the radius is too small and you want a larger radius then you need to layout the corner radii and trim up to them with the router and stop. You can then use a rasp or a dowel wrapped in corse sandpaper to finish up the corners. 

With the template finished you can rough cut the waste out of your project panel and use the template to trim the hole with your router.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

MEBCWD said:


> If that is what you have you could use a handsaw to get rid of most of the waste material buy doing a plunge cut with the tip of the saw to get it started. Even a keyhole saw would help.
> 
> The big problem I see is the lack of tools available right now. To make the template I would say you will need a saw of some kind to help get rid of waste material, then you can use your router and flush trim bit to cut the straight sides for the hole of the template. If the radius of the flush trim bit is large enough for you for the inner corners of the hole, then you can flush the straight edges up at the corners and rout completely around the inside to finish the template. If the radius is too small and you want a larger radius then you need to layout the corner radii and trim up to them with the router and stop. You can then use a rasp or a dowel wrapped in corse sandpaper to finish up the corners.
> 
> With the template finished you can rough cut the waste out of your project panel and use the template to trim the hole with your router.


Hello @MEBCWD Thank you for your input

Peter do you have any handsaws? I'm trying to figure out how you plan on cutting the panels to size.

I am not sure if you referring to how I plan on reducing the 4'x8' MDF sheet down to size. If so, I am going to have the folks at Home Depot cut down the sheet into lengths of 8' and widths of both 3" and 6"

The only tools that I have access to at the moment are: My Craftsman 200 router, small Craftsman router table, circular saw, Jigsaw and electric miter saw (the last two I would borrow from a friend)

As someone had suggested in an earlier post I could use a jigsaw to cutout most of the material then finish it off with a trim bit. I think that I am going to give that a go. I believe that a 24" x 6" template is still something that I will have to figure out in order to make the remaining slats. That seems to be the first logical step but of course I could be wrong.


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

peterbata said:


> Hello all. I hope that I am posting in the appropriate section. I was very impressed by the warm welcome that I received recently and was encouraged to ask questions if necessary. Well, I am here to ask.
> 
> I posted a photo in the "New Member Introductions" sub-forum of an acoustic panel that I wish to construct. I also mentioned that I purchased a Craftsman router thinking that it would be the right tool for the job.
> 
> ...


Peter, where on earth did you get such designs from? Having spent many years in the audio industry I'm intrigued with what they would be used for and what they would sound like.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

harrysin said:


> Peter, where on earth did you get such designs from? Having spent many years in the audio industry I'm intrigued with what they would be used for and what they would sound like.


computer generated designs...


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

harrysin said:


> Peter, where on earth did you get such designs from? Having spent many years in the audio industry I'm intrigued with what they would be used for and what they would sound like.


Hello @harrysin. If you are referring to the designs that wee see in the PDF file that I provided in one of my earlier posts then those were made by son-in-law who is a real pro when it comes to using a CAD program called Solidworks.


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## Danman1957 (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi Peter,

You are close to the new Lee Valley and Normand stores. I know the area. I would enjoy meeting you and the cup of joe. Friday I will be having surgery, so I think we will meet some time in the new Year. If you are on Facebook, there is the Marketplace site and plenty of used tools, if not Kijjiji is also a good source. If you contact me about a tool I will get back to you. You can private message through the Forum.
Dan


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## Danman1957 (Mar 14, 2009)

Peter,
I looked at your tool list and have the following comments;
Use Robertson screws whenever possible, better torque than Philips.
Don't use window screen to cover your panels, use fabric or speaker fabric, both at Fabricville and affordable.
Don't glue the fabric, in time it will fail, staples are the better option, in 3/4 MDF you will need to hammer them in for they usually don't go in all the way.
The design shows only 3'' deep, not enough, the soundproofing must fit only snugly not tight to be effective, it is made to fit a 2 x 4 which is actually 3 1/2'' deep, so go to that or even 4''.
You should screw into the studs, not drywall anchors, these boxes will be slightly heavy. You could also use the French cleat system you were considering.
Dan


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

peterbata said:


> Hello @MEBCWD Thank you for your input
> 
> Peter do you have any handsaws? I'm trying to figure out how you plan on cutting the panels to size.
> 
> ...


Peter letting Home Depo or any other place cut you lumber is a big gamble. I have yet to see a cut they made for me be accurate. Now the cuts they make for me is made just to break the sheets of ply down where I can handle them. I am too old to handle full sheets of ply. :frown:


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## hawkeye10 (Jul 28, 2015)

Danman1957 said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> You are close to the new Lee Valley and Normand stores. I know the area. I would enjoy meeting you and the cup of joe. Friday I will be having surgery, so I think we will meet some time in the new Year. If you are on Facebook, there is the Marketplace site and plenty of used tools, if not Kijjiji is also a good source. If you contact me about a tool I will get back to you. You can private message through the Forum.
> Dan


Dan, I was not aware you were so nice. :grin: Just kidding but woodworkers are always helping others out.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

hawkeye10 said:


> Peter letting Home Depo or any other place cut you lumber is a big gamble. I have yet to see a cut they made for me be accurate. Now the cuts they make for me is made just to break the sheets of ply down where I can handle them. I am too old to handle full sheets of ply. :frown:


the blade in the saw is usually the one the saw came w/....


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Danman1957 said:


> Hi Peter,
> 
> You are close to the new Lee Valley and Normand stores. I know the area. I would enjoy meeting you and the cup of joe. Friday I will be having surgery, so I think we will meet some time in the new Year. If you are on Facebook, there is the Marketplace site and plenty of used tools, if not Kijjiji is also a good source. If you contact me about a tool I will get back to you. You can private message through the Forum.
> Dan


Hello Dan. No, actually I am 5 minutes away from this center:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/SmartCentres+Laval+East/@45.6129103,-73.7009391,17z/data=!4m12!1m6!3m5!1s0x4cc9221e2365a82b:0xcb6e043dedcf74ba!2sTim+Hortons!8m2!3d45.5722694!4d-73.6948477!3m4!1s0x4cc921ab45b9686f:0x5f69bc5c84c11259!8m2!3d45.6112855!4d-73.6972775?hl=en&authuser=0

I frequent Facebook Marketplace (is there a group that deals specifically with tools and/ or woodworking) and Kijiji regularly.

Thanks for the "Cup of Joe" offer. Duly noted! Best of luck with the surgical procedure and wish you a speedy and pain free recovery. Peter


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Stick486 said:


> the blade in the saw is usually the one the saw cam w/....


So, if I understand correctly, what you are saying is that it is very likely that the blade may have been there for years? If so, that certainly can't be good!

Just for chuckles I am going to ask whoever is manning the cut room how often the blade is changed. First, I'll ask how long he has been working the cut room. That should be interesting.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Danman1957 said:


> Peter,
> I looked at your tool list and have the following comments;
> Use Robertson screws whenever possible, better torque than Philips.
> Don't use window screen to cover your panels, use fabric or speaker fabric, both at Fabricville and affordable.
> ...


Robertson for sure.
Window screen was strictly for the back of the panel in order to keep fiberglass particles from escaping.
No glue! Long term was a concern for me as well.
Thanks for shedding light on the thickness issue.
I think that I may go with the "French Cleat" system. At least I am going to try them on one panel to see how they handle the weight. I am hoping to minimize the overall weight by cutting out the slats that you saw in my images. While doing my best to maintain the panel's rigidity. I am really trying to minimize any extensive damage to the room.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

"I am really trying to minimize any extensive damage to the room."
Lol! Always a good plan, Peter.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> "I am really trying to minimize any extensive damage to the room."
> Lol! Always a good plan, Peter.


Hello @DaninVan To be honest with you, I haven't ruled out building stands for the acoustic panels that I plan on building soon. At least I can position them strategically if the tuning of the room should require me to do so. The jury is still out on that one though. Have a good one! Peter


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

Stick: What brand drill guide do you recommend? I could not tell the brand from the picture. There seem to be a lot of crappy drill guides available. Thanks.


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## pal (Feb 13, 2008)

French Cleat top and bottom will handle the weight no problems


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

pal said:


> French Cleat top and bottom will handle the weight no problems


Thank you @pal I saw a few on Amazon but I won't order anything until I have been to the local big box store. I believe that carpet transition strip may do as well. Have a great weekend. Peter


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## Danman1957 (Mar 14, 2009)

Peter,

So I exaggerated the proximity to the new Lee Valley, but you are still pretty close !

You don't need to buy French Cleats. You can use the 3/4'' MDF to make some. Just take a piece about 8 to 10'' wide by 16 to 24'' long(depends on stud spacing) and cut the piece in the center lengthwise at a 45 degree angle. Attach one piece to the wall and the other to your acoustic panels. 

I would not waste my time making the slots to reduce the weight, not worth the effort, the French cleats will support them no problem.

Dan


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Jig*



pal said:


> French Cleat top and bottom will handle the weight no problems


Peter; top and bottom would prevent the unit from being able to pull away from the wall, but unless the location of all four components is *precise* the weight will only transfer to the set that takes the weight 'first' in the up and down direction . 
Not saying don't attempt it but making a little measuring jig to locate the components would definitely be worth a couple of minutes of your time.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> Peter; top and bottom would prevent the unit from being able to pull away from the wall, but unless the location of all four components is *precise* the weight will only transfer to the set that takes the weight 'first' in the up and down direction .
> Not saying don't attempt it but making a little measuring jig to locate the components would definitely be worth a couple of minutes of your time.


Excuse my ignorance. What do you mean when you say "all four components"

Thank you


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Danman1957 said:


> Peter,
> 
> So I exaggerated the proximity to the new Lee Valley, but you are still pretty close !
> 
> ...


This was my logic for cutting away some of the MDF via those slots that I had been discussing:

The slats on the side of the broadband traps are to expose more usable absorption surface area. It is an optimization.

If you have a 6" deep panel that is 24" wide and expose those 6" sides, you have 50% more exposed absorption surface area (e.g. 2x6" = 12" = 24"/2 = 50%).


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

peterbata said:


> Excuse my ignorance. What do you mean when you say "all four components"
> 
> Thank you


Peter; the two inverted 'V' bars (upper and lower) on the hanging unit and the two right side up 'V' bars on the wall.
I say 'V' but you know what I mean?
https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/how-to-plans/how-to/g2340/how-to-build-a-french-cleat-shelf/


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

@DaninVan. Thanks so much for the link. Have a wonderful day! Peter


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Peter in the French cleat idea a panel hanging against the wall would only exert shear force on the screws that hold the cleats to the wall and it would take enough force to shear those screws in half that you wouldn't be able to lift the panel. If you were using them to hold a shelf then a heavy weight on the shelf would form a lever arm and you would get some pull out force as well but it would still have to be a substantial amount of weight to pull those screws out. 

Back when I was a youth I remember seeing pictures of a sound proof room that I think it was Bell Laboratories that built. The scientists in it were standing on a thin wire grid so that there was no actual floor. The bottom, walls, and ceiling of the room were all panels (possibly foam) covered in fabric that formed pockets maybe a foot square by 6-8" deep and angled. The point of the design was to prevent reflections that might form a resonant wave (like an echo for example) and the materials were soft so as to absorb the sounds that hit them. The attached image is a similar principle. The object is to prevent reflections because your ear picks up that reflection a split second after the original sound and interferes with the wave pattern. You sometimes hear a similar sound in a large auditorium or a stadium where you hear the same sound at different intervals because of the different distances the sound travels to get to you from each speaker. If you're looking to build sound deadening panels one of the most effective panels I can imagine is a sheet of styrofoam insulation covered with carpet. There would near zero reflection with that.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

What a great thread. Lots of helpful information. It would be tempting to build something like this with ply, but kiln dried pine 1x6 would probably be lighter, especially with the cutouts. Since it's going to be covered (wraped) in fabric, you could use some pretty inexpensive wood. Cut the ends square using a circular saw and speed square. Cutting holes using a hand held drill and a jig saw would work, if the whole thing is wrapped. A back of 1/4 ply, or even 1/8th. If budget right now is a factor, this approach would keep cost down. I have had terrible luck with cheapo plywood from big box stores.

Another possible approach is to construct it using long narrow pieces and short pieces as shown in the drawing below to form the sides and ends. Ideally, you'd cut the pieces to size with a table saw, but you could do it by buying pre cut material. Glue the pieces together and use cheap clamps to hold it together while the glue dries. Use glue with an extended open time so you have time to glue everything together. 

Wrapping the piece with staples on the back will cover all variations in color, and even cover knots. If you only use one French cleat, it will be at the top, but you will need to add a piece the same thickness on the bottom to make it stand away from the wall.

If you want to get fancy, inset the back panel so it's equal to the thickness of the French cleat. Insert the cleat and the outside edge of the frame work will fit snug to the wall, without any gap.

Here's a quickie drawing of one side.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Peter in the French cleat idea a panel hanging against the wall would only exert shear force on the screws that hold the cleats to the wall and it would take enough force to shear those screws in half that you wouldn't be able to lift the panel. If you were using them to hold a shelf then a heavy weight on the shelf would form a lever arm and you would get some pull out force as well but it would still have to be a substantial amount of weight to pull those screws out.
> 
> Back when I was a youth I remember seeing pictures of a sound proof room that I think it was Bell Laboratories that built. The scientists in it were standing on a thin wire grid so that there was no actual floor. The bottom, walls, and ceiling of the room were all panels (possibly foam) covered in fabric that formed pockets maybe a foot square by 6-8" deep and angled. The point of the design was to prevent reflections that might form a resonant wave (like an echo for example) and the materials were soft so as to absorb the sounds that hit them. The attached image is a similar principle. The object is to prevent reflections because your ear picks up that reflection a split second after the original sound and interferes with the wave pattern. You sometimes hear a similar sound in a large auditorium or a stadium where you hear the same sound at different intervals because of the different distances the sound travels to get to you from each speaker. If you're looking to build sound deadening panels one of the most effective panels I can imagine is a sheet of styrofoam insulation covered with carpet. There would near zero reflection with that.


Thank you for that great information @Cherryville Chuck. I think that it is very important to tame reflections of any kind. However, absorption is key especially in a small room where bass nulls and comb filtering can be your worst enemy.

I really like the design in the photo that you provided. Brilliant.


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## peterbata (Nov 29, 2018)

DesertRatTom said:


> What a great thread. Lots of helpful information. It would be tempting to build something like this with ply, but kiln dried pine 1x6 would probably be lighter, especially with the cutouts. Since it's going to be covered (wraped) in fabric, you could use some pretty inexpensive wood. Cut the ends square using a circular saw and speed square. Cutting holes using a hand held drill and a jig saw would work, if the whole thing is wrapped. A back of 1/4 ply, or even 1/8th. If budget right now is a factor, this approach would keep cost down. I have had terrible luck with cheapo plywood from big box stores.
> 
> Another possible approach is to construct it using long narrow pieces and short pieces as shown in the drawing below to form the sides and ends. Ideally, you'd cut the pieces to size with a table saw, but you could do it by buying pre cut material. Glue the pieces together and use cheap clamps to hold it together while the glue dries. Use glue with an extended open time so you have time to glue everything together.
> 
> ...


I like those diagrams. That sure is a new twist on the panels construction. I have not seen that mentioned in any of the material that I have read or the video tutorials that I have watched. Very interesting indeed. You made no mention of MDF in your materials list however. Any particular reason why? Thank you for contributing to this thread @DesertRatTom


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## bfblack (May 2, 2012)

Kiln dried pine was mentioned as an alternative to plywood. The pitch in pine will gum up woodworking tools so most of us don't mill pine. An alternative would be Poplar.


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## schmitt32linedrill (Apr 23, 2013)

That's a great looking invention. It even has V blocks for drilling round shafts etc.. I wish I had that one. I've got a home made one of wood and plywood, set up with a 1/2 inch variable speed, reversible corded drill. I use it mostly for tapping threads in metal parts.

The plywood sleeve slides up and down on a solid block of pine. I extended the top so I could attach the screen door spring. It gets the job done.

Art S


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