# Router Table



## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

I had a chance to look at two different concepts for router tables. One is the one by Norm Abram and one is a dvd that you can buy from Kreg. Both are nice tables.

I am thinking I would built one very similar to Norms, but use pocket screws. This would be instead of dados and glue.

Any thoughts if one way is better than the other? I suppose it is like apples and oranges. The pocket screw method seems much faster and a little more flexible.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Steve Bolton


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## challagan (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi Steve, I think your asking if pocket screws are better than dado's. I don't know, I have read that a pocket screw with glue is extremely strong, stronger than you need with most applications. For cabinet work, it is very strong,fast and easy. I like the Kreg Jig designs pretty well and you can use about any router table top with it. Norms is a pretty elaborate design and a pretty fancy cabinet but I don't like the fence system personally.

Corey


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## S Bolton (Mar 5, 2007)

That is exactly what I am asking, whether pocket screws are better than dados.

Thanks.


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## vapochilled (May 2, 2007)

I know its a different application but.........
I used pocket screws(kreg) and glue to assemble my deck railing, it is is bloody strong!! I was very supprised just how rigid it was.
Have no fear of the kreg,lol, it is fast and plenty strong enough


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## JDługosz (Sep 10, 2007)

S Bolton said:


> That is exactly what I am asking, whether pocket screws are better than dados.


My personal feeling is that pocket screws are evil. My subtop is attached with dados, and the top top is screwed from below so it can be changed if needed. Pieces of paper packing tape between the two are used for leveling.

I pick up the table by lifting to top, to get over a low step at the garage door.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi JDlugosz

Just my 2 cents 

I like the pocket hole screws, they are clamps no more no less,, they hold the part in place until the glue sets up,, like most glues joints if the part moves the glue will fail...

Dado's parts like to move, because of the mass and the size of the part that sit in the dado slot...many will glue the part in and then put screws in and plug the holes.
The pocket holes don't need to be pluged the norm but they do make plugs for them.

Norm A. likes to use glue and a pin nail to hold the part in place, it works about the same way almost but big parts like to move if the cabinet gets moved around the shop or around the house... it's hard to get a screw to fail unless it gets pulled out of the stock.. 


"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator

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## JDługosz (Sep 10, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hi JDlugosz
> 
> Just my 2 cents
> 
> I like the pocket hole screws, they are clamps no more no less,, they hold the part in place until the glue sets up,, like most glues joints if the part moves the glue will fail...


That makes sense. I've occasionally used screws for "non-fine" stuff just so I can get my clamps back. But for the weekender, I don't have a problem waiting for the glue to dry. I built an entire gazebo with no mechanical fasteners.

I cringe when Norm pulls out his brad nailer. I prefer David J. Marks for inspiration. 

Not to say that I haven't used thousands of screws on other projects...

I agree that pocket screws could be used for clamping along with some other joint, to make good-quality work. It's just that I only see it in cheap kitchen/bathroom cabinets and as a substitute for proper joints. I can see how a pro or someone who's feeling productive rather than relaxing would want to move the piece immediately after assembling. 

But personally I would consider using D.J.M.'s trick to prevent parts from shifting: push a brad in to one side, then cut the head off at an angle, leaving about 1/16 protruding. Then apply glue and press the parts together. The brad is entirely inside the piece and just stops it from sliding. It should be fine to move with clamps on.


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## Woodnut65 (Oct 11, 2004)

Hi: My method is to use biscuits, glue and pocket screws. The biscuits keep the parts from shifting when you put in the pocket holes and screws. When the glue dries the joint is very strong and it needs no clamps while it's drying. Woodnut65


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi JDługosz

You should send off for the videos from Marc Sommerfeld he shows in his videos how to make high end cabinets with the pocket holes, the new way he makes face frames will blow you away I sure....not to say anything about cabinets...
Some of the BEST videos I have seen  5 stars out of 5 stars *****

http://www.sommerfeldtools.com/list.asp?d=118&p=1


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JDługosz said:


> That makes sense. I've occasionally used screws for "non-fine" stuff just so I can get my clamps back. But for the weekender, I don't have a problem waiting for the glue to dry. I built an entire gazebo with no mechanical fasteners.
> 
> I cringe when Norm pulls out his brad nailer. I prefer David J. Marks for inspiration.
> 
> ...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

It is my feeling that for a cabinet which will be supporting weight you are better off using dados. Here is why I say this: We all know that the more glue surfaces you have in a joint the stronger it is. The dado has 3 while a pocket hole joint has one. In fairness the pocket hole joint does have the screw which acts as a powerful clamp on its own. So what happens when you introduce an impact to the joint? We have all seen screws pull out. The same impact applied to a dado joint will have the wood pushing down on a lip of wood with 3 times the glue to help support it. This just strikes me as a stronger joint. We all know how easy it is to drop something on a table. I guess in 50 years there will be enough data to give us proof one way or the other.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

I like the way you think 

But try this in some scrap stock...

Put in a dado, then cut the stock into two parts drop in some stock and now glue in the stock in the dado , now in one of the parts put in some pocket screws...not to many say 2 or 3...

Now wait for a day,, then take a hammer and NAIL the joint...

I'm sure you will see the joint without the pocket screws will fail 1st.

The helix is a very old device and is very strong device  as you know I'm sure.
With the new glue we have now days it's hard to break the seal but it's only a few thousandths of an inch thick unlike the holding power of a screw...
Once the part racks that's it the seal is gone or to say the wood fibers are lifted from the stock and you don't have a strong joint...anymore....

The neat thing about pocket screws is they are a clamp that you can leave in place unlike the one you must remove once the joint is setup with the glue.

"It's fine to disagree with other members as long as you respect their opinions." 
MIKE
Senior Moderator


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

BJ, The helix is quite old and in fact is nothing but a spiral lever which provides additional pull over it's entire length. I have seen the test reports from Kreg, and I know they suggest using a screw every 4-6" for maximum strength. I use pocket hole screws on a regular basis. I have to build a new bathroom vanity and I will take the leap of faith and try it with the pocket hole construction. I will report back on how it works out. Yes Harry, I will include photos.


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

I made my router cabinet with nothing but dadoes and glue.. It's solid.. The only fasteners I used were a few trim nails with glue holding a 1x2 piece under the front of the table top..


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