# beehive super rabbet



## fishlore (Oct 28, 2007)

The sides of a beehive super box have a sort of tapered rabbet cut in them making it easy to pick it up. See picture. How is this produced?


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Hello? Would you please fill out rour profile, Thanks


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## Ogee Fillet (Aug 18, 2009)

A dish cutter or round nose should work.


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## fishlore (Oct 28, 2007)

dutchman 46 said:


> Hello? Would you please fill out rour profile, Thanks


I don't know what happened to my profile. I haven't logged on in a while but my name and password worked. I didn't remove the profile. Must have been the data fairy?


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## fishlore (Oct 28, 2007)

Ogee Fillet said:


> A dish cutter or round nose should work.


Is there a special way to use a dish cutter or round nose bit to get the profile? Perhaps the picture isn't clear. Here is my attempt to draw it.

I don't know what happened to my personal profile. I didn't erase it. Anyhow, I put it up again


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hand pocket hole with the cove Vertical bit

Vertical Raised Panel Router Bit
#1703 Cove 1-5/8" 1/2" $25.00!
MLCS Raised Panel Carbide Tipped Router Bits 2

To put into to place,chuck up the bit in the router table,setup two stop blocks,push the stock into the bit,make a pass or two it's taking a ton of stock out.. 
You may need to use the
MLCS Router Collet Extension
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/router_collet.htmlMLCS Router Collet Extension

to get it deeper off the edge of the board 
But it should be easy and quick job ..
You can also just glue on a top edge to the board after the bit has done the job if you don't want to use the Collet Extension,,some dowels or some screws will hold the top edge in place..



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## fishlore (Oct 28, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> Hand pocket hole with the cove Vertical bit
> 
> Vertical Raised Panel Router Bit
> #1703 Cove 1-5/8" 1/2" $25.00!
> ...


My problem is that the profile is not cut into the edge of the board but in the center to be used as a recessed handle. Gluing bits on the board is undesirabe as the board is exposed to the weather (it's the side of a beehive) and since the hive could weigh 100 lbs, the handle has to be strong and secure. One hundred pounds of honey and angry bees all over your shoes could ruin your whole day!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

Well you can use your dado blade set in a RAS,, clamp the board down to the top set a angle on the saw and then drop the blades into the side just anywhere you want it to be..

I would say you can also use your table saw but you need to clamp the board in place and then just raise the blade set up, don't try and just drop it on the blades.. you may need to use you power hand saw to get the sharp edge on the pocket hole edge or move the angle back to zero b/4 you un clamp it from the table..but not to deep or you will take out the pocket hole angle..

That's why I say to use a RAW it will let you just swing the blade out in place easy and you can see what you are doing...

Don't forget they do make 6" dado sets 

I have a router setup on my RAS for the hard jobs like this one..


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fishlore said:


> My problem is that the profile is not cut into the edge of the board but in the center to be used as a recessed handle. Gluing bits on the board is undesirabe as the board is exposed to the weather (it's the side of a beehive) and since the hive could weigh 100 lbs, the handle has to be strong and secure. One hundred pounds of honey and angry bees all over your shoes could ruin your whole day!


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## dutchman 46 (May 23, 2007)

Welcome Bill! I can see that you have your name and state, I am sorry, if it sounded that i didn't want to respond, but that isn't true. I was in the middle of posting, and had to leave. Glad that you are here, and i hope you are enjoying the forums. Howard,


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

fishlore said:


> The sides of a beehive super box have a sort of tapered rabbet cut in them making it easy to pick it up. See picture. How is this produced?


Hi Bill, As a beekeeper who makes 1000's of supers, you would have trouble cutting the handle with a router. Try using Dado's on your bench saw. Clamp two stops to the fence. Using the* front* stop lower the super end onto the dado and push to the other stop. While this gives a "square" edge top and bottom it makes for an easy handle but won't turn any water which may lodge in the cavity. A 30mm X 130mm dado makes a comfortable handle


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## Old_Chipper (Mar 30, 2009)

Hi Bill.
I did mine same as Murray, but used my radical arm saw. I like seeing what is going on. I tried a few with the saw set at 10 degrees, but found it wasn't worth the effort. Never had a frame rot there.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Old_Chipper said:


> Hi Bill.
> I did mine same as Murray, but used my radical arm saw. I like seeing what is going on. I tried a few with the saw set at 10 degrees, but found it wasn't worth the effort. Never had a frame rot there.


The problem with a RAS is shavings in the 
eye and the saw gets in the way of the work and makes the job potentially dangerous. However to do it safely with a bench saw, have good clamps to stop the super end from kicking back. You are removing a large quantity of timber if you do it with one depth setting and START FROM THE FRONT to eliminate any kickback.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Hi Bill:

I can't give you the perfect solution but if you mount your router into a set of skis and set your workpiece at an angle, this will allow you to move the bit into the workpiece and stop at any given point. This will carve out a grip similar to what you need. I would suggest you do a plunge rabbet first to establish the finger holds then, use the skis to angle into your rabbet. Make sense? Hmmmm, I'm not sure but I tried.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Hand grips were cut with a router in the 1920's by making a 1" slot about 3" long but were given up for the style Bill wants because they were uncomfortable to use while carrying a full super. The commercial manufacture of super ends used a cutter head shaped as the handle groove as Bill has drawn using a cutter, mounted similar to a dado. In NZ this style has long been superceded by a long cut using standard dado's as they provide a comfortable handle, are easily gripped mechanically and cheap to make using standard tools. Complete supers, frames and all woodware for a beehive can be made using a RAS (needed only to cut to length) a bench saw and a jointer. 30 years ago I changed to a Manley style frame (to coincide with our countries change to metrics). In my opinion this was an excellent decision, as the supers are easier to handle as they are 10% lighter, the frames are truely self spacing, produce fatter combs, thereby less hand scraping during uncapping and are a breeze in auto uncappers. They are also cheaper to make as you use 8" rather than 10" timber and the endbars are parallel rather than shaped as Hoffman style are. Additionally we use only 2 wires and the combs withstand the extracting forces far better.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi 

In the states they sold pop by the wooden case and it had a handle in the sides of the pop case that worked very well for a very long time and then the alum.can took over the market ..but they still use the same pocket hole in the cardboard boxes..

It was hard to get your hand in all the way in the hole the norm because of the bottles...but one could pick up 4 or 5 at one time by using the handle hole...

I know the hole can't go all the way into the bee hive but the same type of handle would work I'm sure...
just a simple pocket hole put in with a router..

=======


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi
> 
> In the states they sold pop by the wooden case and it had a handle in the sides of the pop case that worked very well for a very long time and then the alum.can took over the market ..but they still use the same pocket hole in the cardboard boxes..
> 
> ...


 As I said we used this style of handle but changed in the early to mid 1900's in favour of the style Bill wants and later to a long slot dado'd into the end. No doubt for cost. The English style and early US style used a handle attached to the end. This limited the ability to stack piles of supers close together. The main point is to have a comfortable handhold as heavy weights are carried, and with mechanical handling something that is uniform and universal. Ease of manufacture and cost also play a part:yes4: When you have hold of a heavy super of honey and 1000's of angry bees chasing you it helps having a handle which works while you are running lol:dance3:


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Lemuzz said:


> As I said we used this style of handle but changed in the early to mid 1900's in favour of the style Bill wants and later to a long slot dado'd into the end. No doubt for cost. The English style and early US style used a handle attached to the end. This limited the ability to stack piles of supers close together. The main point is to have a comfortable handhold as heavy weights are carried, and with mechanical handling something that is uniform and universal. Ease of manufacture and cost also play a part:yes4: When you have hold of a heavy super of honey and 1000's of angry bees chasing you it helps having a handle which works while you are running lol:dance3:


and here I thought you bee keepers had iron skin and all kinds of smokey protection ;-)


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

allthunbs said:


> and here I thought you bee keepers had iron skin and all kinds of smokey protection ;-)


Only when people are looking LOL:jester:


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

allthunbs said:


> Hi Bill:
> 
> I can't give you the perfect solution but if you mount your router into a set of skis and set your workpiece at an angle, this will allow you to move the bit into the workpiece and stop at any given point. This will carve out a grip similar to what you need. I would suggest you do a plunge rabbet first to establish the finger holds then, use the skis to angle into your rabbet. Make sense? Hmmmm, I'm not sure but I tried.


Yes this would form the handgrip but would take some time to make a number of them.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Lemuzz said:


> Yes this would form the handgrip but would take some time to make a number of them.


Setup is a PIA but once done can be repeated infinitely and in short order. I wouldn't hazard a guess but once you've done the layout and put together a few quick jigs, it should be quickly repeatable. The first one is the pain all the rest are gifts. 

First, cut a rabbet where the handle is going to stop. If I remember correctly, your drawing stipulated that this was to be perpendicular to the face of the workpiece.

The rest is a freehand-skis operation.

Ok, mount your router on the skis. I'd use my long, smooth rods here. This is a moderate control project so mount your router to the middle of the skis.

Put your workpiece into a jig that sets the angle of the cut and lock it in tight. Mark out your cut area clearly. Nothing worse than not being able to see where you're supposed to cut. If you're going to do a bunch, make a jig with a shoulder that can serve to set the bit depth. 

Now, position yourself on the upside of the skis. As you cut, you want the router coming toward you. This will help visibility. Do an inbound cut to your rabbet and then all of the rest can be outward carving cuts. If you're worried about being dead accurate, fit your skis on rails and lock the router to the rods for the outside cuts. Proceed to do the remainder of the cuts freehand.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Yes this is one way to do them. To cut a dado tho after 10 min set up would take 5 seconds at the most. Place the board against the front stop, lower to make the cut and push to the second stop. It is completely safe as the saw is covered by the board at all times and should it kick, which is unlikely, will only kick back to the first stop, a distance of about 50mm


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## Mr. Randy (Oct 22, 2009)

fishlore said:


> The sides of a beehive super box have a sort of tapered rabbet cut in them making it easy to pick it up. See picture. How is this produced?


I have made my own hives for years and I think that a simple 1X2 secured across the front and back of the hive works better than the cut hand hold. Just make sure it doesn't interfere with the lid.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

Mr. Randy said:


> I have made my own hives for years and I think that a simple 1X2 secured across the front and back of the hive works better than the cut hand hold. Just make sure it doesn't interfere with the lid.


yes this makes a good handle. The only problem is when stacking on a truck or in a shed for winter they won't stack close together.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Murray

Where do the bees go for the winter ?? 



http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_do_bees_and_wasps_go_in_the_winter
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Lemuzz said:


> yes this makes a good handle. The only problem is when stacking on a truck or in a shed for winter they won't stack close together.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

They are all at home in the hive. The supers are the honey storage boxes. If left on the hive over winter they are inclined to get damaged with wind or stock (Cattle mostly or in your country, bears as well) Also there is no need to keep them on the hive over the winter as the honey has been removed and more heat would be wasted needing more feed to keep warm. In the spring the supers would need to be removed and replaced several times to check the condition of the hive. It is convenient to store the boxes inside after extracting the crop as it saves the cost of a trip to replace them on the hive, (although this would be needed during the next spring) and any repairs to the woodware can be made during the winter months.:yes4:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I know this is a old post 


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

After studying all the above suggestions, I think that Ron's idea using the skis has a lot of merit, followed by Bj's latest suggestion in which case I would use a milling vice so that the correct angle can be quickly found and set.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Lemuzz said:


> Hand grips were cut with a router in the 1920's by making a 1" slot about 3" long but were given up for the style Bill wants because they were uncomfortable to use while carrying a full super. The commercial manufacture of super ends used a cutter head shaped as the handle groove as Bill has drawn using a cutter, mounted similar to a dado. In NZ this style has long been superceded by a long cut using standard dado's as they provide a comfortable handle, are easily gripped mechanically and cheap to make using standard tools. Complete supers, frames and all woodware for a beehive can be made using a RAS (needed only to cut to length) a bench saw and a jointer. 30 years ago I changed to a Manley style frame (to coincide with our countries change to metrics). In my opinion this was an excellent decision, as the supers are easier to handle as they are 10% lighter, the frames are truely self spacing, produce fatter combs, thereby less hand scraping during uncapping and are a breeze in auto uncappers. They are also cheaper to make as you use 8" rather than 10" timber and the endbars are parallel rather than shaped as Hoffman style are. Additionally we use only 2 wires and the combs withstand the extracting forces far better.


Hi

Are any drawings available for building hives like yours? Also, can you recommend any websites for beekeeping and making honey. I know I can Google, but a recommendation might save time sorting through which ones seemed better over a period.

Cheers

Peter


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

istracpsboss said:


> Hi
> 
> Are any drawings available for building hives like yours? Also, can you recommend any websites for beekeeping and making honey. I know I can Google, but a recommendation might save time sorting through which ones seemed better over a period.
> 
> ...


As this is a router forum I don't know if the rules allow this. I would be only too pleased to offer any information required. How about you PM me. 
Cheers
Murray


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## read (Jan 6, 2011)

were can i get this tool


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## read (Jan 6, 2011)

go to brushy mountian bee suplies


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Hello read and welcome to the RouterForums.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

Lemuzz said:


> As this is a router forum I don't know if the rules allow this. I would be only too pleased to offer any information required. How about you PM me.
> Cheers
> Murray


Hi Murry:

I'd be interested in knowing as well. I live between monoculture, frankenfood potatoes and a couple of million acres of forest, thus, not too many flowers, and it would be interesting to know if I could even keep bees. Are there any forums (fora) for beekeeping? Maybe we should have a router forum for beekeepers ;-)


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

Hi Ron

Try Beekeeping Forum

Cheers

Peter


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

istracpsboss said:


> Hi Ron
> 
> Try Beekeeping Forum
> 
> ...


Thanks Peter:

I did a quick look and it is quite an education. I'll go back and learn some more. We have a problem here in Canada with the monoculture farming the bees aren't getting the right nutrition so the hives are dying off. Price of honey is going through the roof. 1L of _Canadian_ honey is $9.49 Cdn. Blended South American & Canadian honey is somewhat cheaper but not by a lot. 

I hope the situation is better in Croatia.


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## istracpsboss (Sep 14, 2008)

We produce quite a bit of honey locally. Acacia and chestnut mostly, although unspecified flowers probably accounts for as much. The locals seem to keep their hives on old trailers that they move around. I don't think our price differs a lot, but then we are talking artisan stuff rather than big commercial operations. I keep thinking of having a go, but I'm not convinced I'd save much money over buying it locally. Making two or three hives could be fun but then I'd have the hassle of selling the surplus honey. I'm not sure just having a single hive would work.

Cheers

Peter


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

*Apiarists please*



istracpsboss said:


> We produce quite a bit of honey locally. Acacia and chestnut mostly, although unspecified flowers probably accounts for as much. The locals seem to keep their hives on old trailers that they move around. I don't think our price differs a lot, but then we are talking artisan stuff rather than big commercial operations. I keep thinking of having a go, but I'm not convinced I'd save much money over buying it locally. Making two or three hives could be fun but then I'd have the hassle of selling the surplus honey. I'm not sure just having a single hive would work.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter


Maybe we can get some comments from the more experienced apiarists. Is it possible to have only one hive with minimal supervision/time/energy involved? 

Ron


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## fishlore (Oct 28, 2007)

allthunbs said:


> Maybe we can get some comments from the more experienced apiarists. Is it possible to have only one hive with minimal supervision/time/energy involved?
> 
> Ron


It certainly is! I sell hives to just such backyard beekeepers. Search for "warre hive" and/or check out the forum on Yahoo UK.


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## allthunbs (Jun 22, 2008)

fishlore said:


> It certainly is! I sell hives to just such backyard beekeepers. Search for "warre hive" and/or check out the forum on Yahoo UK.


Thanks Bill. I will.

Ron


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

*Half Moon Hive Handholds Jig*

Hello all!
I know this is an old thread, but the topic is still quite timely.

Although you can use a router, there is a VERY well designed, functional, and easy to make and use jig for a Skil saw, that is pretty much a go to for anyone wanting to create the nice half moon handles, quickly and easily.

I am too new to the forums to post URLs yet, but if you do a search for *WHIMPY HOGAN'S Jig,* you can see the easy to build plans. 

Mr. Cleo Hogan, the inventor, has been a beekeeper for over 30 years, and his jig plans have become a staple for beeks who build their own hives...
EDIT: I forgot, he also has a WONDERFUL YouTube video showing it in action.

Hope this helps someone!:grin:


link. http://www.beesource.com/files/handhold.pdf
~Moz


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## Dejure (Jul 27, 2009)

Not to steal a thread, but have you played with the acacia wood?

My brother gave me his downed acacia here in Eastern Washington and after cutting it, I'd love to have more. It's beautiful wood, especially in combination with koa, mahogany, walnut and so forth.




istracpsboss said:


> We produce quite a bit of honey locally. Acacia and chestnut mostly, although unspecified flowers probably accounts for as much. The locals seem to keep their hives on old trailers that they move around. I don't think our price differs a lot, but then we are talking artisan stuff rather than big commercial operations. I keep thinking of having a go, but I'm not convinced I'd save much money over buying it locally. Making two or three hives could be fun but then I'd have the hassle of selling the surplus honey. I'm not sure just having a single hive would work.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Peter


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## Moz (Nov 13, 2015)

istracpsboss said:


> We produce quite a bit of honey locally. Acacia and chestnut mostly, although unspecified flowers probably accounts for as much.
> Cheers
> Peter


I am just starting to learn the floral note differences between honeys...I have never heard of chestnut honey, but just the thought of it sounds delectable!

~M


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

I did not see this thread when it started in 2009 so I am a late comer to it. If the problem has hot been solved may I offer a suggestion. Make the cut with a large radius cove bit, with the bearing replaced with a larger bearing such as one of those that are found with variable depth rabbet kits.


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