# Router bit selection??



## huntersridge (Mar 4, 2009)

I am planning on building a 4 foot diameter (yes 4’) pulley from a sheet of 3/4” plywood. I need to cut the 1/2” v-belt pulley groove around the diameter of this pulley. I understand that there are v-groove router bits available for cutting a v-groove but I am assuming that this would be cut from the “face” of the groove side on the pulley, probably using a router table. Is there a bit available that would allow me to cut the 1/2” v-groove from the FLAT side of the plywood?? It would be much easier to cut this groove with a portable router going around the outside EDGE of the plywood rather than setting this on a router table. I would like to set my router on the sheet of plywood and run it around the edge of the plywood after my 4’ circle has been cut. Any ideas??


Thank you,
Jim Roberts


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

huntersridge said:


> I am planning on building a 4 foot diameter (yes 4’) pulley from a sheet of 3/4” plywood. I need to cut the 1/2” v-belt pulley groove around the diameter of this pulley. I understand that there are v-groove router bits available for cutting a v-groove but I am assuming that this would be cut from the “face” of the groove side on the pulley, probably using a router table. Is there a bit available that would allow me to cut the 1/2” v-groove from the FLAT side of the plywood?? It would be much easier to cut this groove with a portable router going around the outside EDGE of the plywood rather than setting this on a router table. I would like to set my router on the sheet of plywood and run it around the edge of the plywood after my 4’ circle has been cut. Any ideas??
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Jim Roberts


Hi Jim,

Welcome to the group. The only way I can think to accomplish this is a bit like the 99-033 below (the bit on the left). You will need to use a template with a guide bushing to control the cut and may need to make multiple passes to get the groove width you need.

Freud 99-033:

http://www.freudtools.com/p-154-wedge-tongue-groove-bits.aspx


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Jim

I would recommend using the bit below,it will cut up to a 5/8" wide V groove,,
I would do it on the router table,once the V groove is in place then take a slot cutter and remove the sharp point inside the groove,, I wold also suggest using a jig block in place of the fence,,the same curve as the wheel, out of some 2" x 6" or 4" x 6" stock..with a pocket hole for the bit to spin in..and some type of support stand to keep the wheel flat on the router table.. 

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bit_edgeband_ogee.html

http://www.grizzly.com/products/c1537
========


huntersridge said:


> I am planning on building a 4 foot diameter (yes 4’) pulley from a sheet of 3/4” plywood. I need to cut the 1/2” v-belt pulley groove around the diameter of this pulley. I understand that there are v-groove router bits available for cutting a v-groove but I am assuming that this would be cut from the “face” of the groove side on the pulley, probably using a router table. Is there a bit available that would allow me to cut the 1/2” v-groove from the FLAT side of the plywood?? It would be much easier to cut this groove with a portable router going around the outside EDGE of the plywood rather than setting this on a router table. I would like to set my router on the sheet of plywood and run it around the edge of the plywood after my 4’ circle has been cut. Any ideas??
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Jim Roberts


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

I immediately thought of the style of profile BobJ3 suggested, too, but the 90° angle may not match the profile of your v-belt. The angle on the bit Charles suggested strikes me as closer to the profile of a v-belt, but the depth of cut may not be sufficient, causing the belt to ride proud of your dainty pulley wheel. You may want to check the angle on your v-belt, and then peruse the Freud and other sites for something that matches.

Using a good edge guide, and perhaps an enlarged base plate on the router, you should be able to do this "by hand" - more easily, I think, than on a table. (Trying to manage the 4' diameter on a typical router table strikes me as difficult, at best.) Alternatively, you could use part of the waste from cutting the circle as a custom guide, matching the radius, but I think you'd need to add Teflon tape, or something like that, to make the edge of the guide smooth enough.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ralph

Just for kicks I wanted to see what bit would be the best for the job,,it was the Grizzly bit that worked the best , the bearing could be removed to let it cut go just a little deeper,that would let the belt sit almost flat with the edge.. 

=======


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Good info on pulley making and belt angles here:
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=v+belt+angle


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

All of the pulley belts I ever saw were closer to the Freud pic Charles M. put up. If I had the opportunity I'd take the pulley to my local supplier to check the degree of pitch off the male bit. The closer the fit the less the slip and possible burning


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

I think your right but just how fast is 4ft. wooden wheel going to spin 

BUT I think it would come down to putting out 70.oo dollars plus for just a groove in a wooden wheel or putting out 20.oo dollars to do about the same thing..I think just about anything would work,after all he must have over 40" of grab with a V belt around the wooden wheel...sounds like it's more of a level than a way to spin something..maybe a compost maker ......


http://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-033-...ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1236258575&sr=1-2
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Ghidrah said:


> All of the pulley belts I ever saw were closer to the Freud pic Charles M. put up. If I had the opportunity I'd take the pulley to my local supplier to check the degree of pitch off the male bit. The closer the fit the less the slip and possible burning


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

huntersridge said:


> I am planning on building a 4 foot diameter (yes 4’) pulley from a sheet of 3/4” plywood. I need to cut the 1/2” v-belt pulley groove around the diameter of this pulley. I understand that there are v-groove router bits available for cutting a v-groove but I am assuming that this would be cut from the “face” of the groove side on the pulley, probably using a router table. Is there a bit available that would allow me to cut the 1/2” v-groove from the FLAT side of the plywood?? It would be much easier to cut this groove with a portable router going around the outside EDGE of the plywood rather than setting this on a router table. I would like to set my router on the sheet of plywood and run it around the edge of the plywood after my 4’ circle has been cut. Any ideas??
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Jim Roberts


depending on the driving pulley diameter and the contact area of the belt on this, you will have no problem with belt slippage on the 4ft pulley . The problem will be slippage on the driving pulley as the contact will be small no matter what the load.


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## Dr.Zook (Sep 10, 2004)

Welcome to the RouterForums Jim.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

bobj3 said:


> BUT I think it would come down to putting out 70.oo dollars plus


But the link you posted had it for $59.99, not $70 plus. Anyway, you're right that there are cheaper imitators out there. That's why I said he could use a bit like the 99-033, not that he had to get that particular one.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Charles

The MLCS is higher in price, that's why I posted yours as well  it's lower in price.. 
{ see thumbnail same post }

I tried to make you a happy camper 
====



Charles M said:


> But the link you posted had it for $59.99, not $70 plus. Anyway, you're right that there are cheaper imitators out there. That's why I said he could use a bit like the 99-033, not that he had to get that particular one.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

For real? The MLCS is higher? Sorry, I saw the pic but didn't see a link to their price.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Charles

Yep,,,The price is right on the picture 
No need for a link if the price is higher..

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Charles M said:


> For real? The MLCS is higher? Sorry, I saw the pic but didn't see a link to their price.


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## Charles M (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks, I guess I'm not as observant as I once was.


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## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Thing is how many pulley belts you seen at 4' plus diameter?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

I can only think of one,that was for a wooden pulley and it was rope belt.
That's to say is was made out of some rope with a knot in it ..that was on a water pump/lift ..


======



Ghidrah said:


> Thing is how many pulley belts you seen at 4' plus diameter?


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## Thrifty Tool Guy (Aug 23, 2007)

Since 4L belts are usually less than 100", the gentleman submitting the posting must be using an A-series belt. However, those belts are limited to ~182" and he'll need ~151 just to "loop" the pulley.

I'm too polite to ask....

TTG


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## AxlMyk (Jun 13, 2006)

Instead of using an RT, make an edge guide to mount the router on. Run it around the outside of the pulley.
I wonder if you could get a linkbelt big enough to go around it.
May I ask what you are attempting to make?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Mike

You can make any belt as long as you want with the belt type ,below 
I use it on my table saw and jointer, it runs very quite and smooth 

I wish they had it back when, it would have saved me many return trips to the auto parts store to get one 1" longer or shorter 


Power Twist® V-Belt, 1/2" x 4' 
http://grizzly.com/products/Power-Twist-V-Belt-1-2-x-4-/H9815
http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2009/Main/247
========



AxlMyk said:


> Instead of using an RT, make an edge guide to mount the router on. Run it around the outside of the pulley.
> I wonder if you could get a linkbelt big enough to go around it.
> May I ask what you are attempting to make?


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## kolias (Dec 26, 2008)

4 ft diameter plywood pulley? Out of curiosity can you tell us what it's for? Any pictures? Thank you


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

bobj3 said:


> You can make any belt as long as you want with the belt type ,below
> I use it on my table saw and jointer, it runs very quite and smooth
> 
> I wish they had it back when, it would have saved me many return trips to the auto parts store to get one 1" longer or shorter ========


I have had catalogs like Browning Power Transmission , etc for years... 
when I saw the link belts in them I wrongly thought they were for people who could not measure correctly the length belts they needed for their equipment...
( perhaps I was partially correct... LOL ) 
When I was researching my HB bandsaw purchase I found a site which recommended putting the linkbelt on right from the start to reduce the vibration... and it worked just great.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

I'm with Kolias, just what is this going to be used for?

To put in a 1/2" "V" groove in 3/4" ply, well, just make sure that this pulley is properly aligned. Otherwise, you just ruined a good piece of ply for nothing. I'm also not sure this would be wise anyways. A belt works from it's sides not from the bottom edge. You're asking for the top edge of the ply, (which would be only an 1/8" thick), to do the work. Which in time will splinter out.


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Mike
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## huntersridge (Mar 4, 2009)

Thank you for all the replies to this topic. I had a hard time signing in after registering so it took forever to reply back to your replies.
I'll try and explain this project a little better.
The 4' pulley is going to attached on one end of a 4'w X 6'h wooden drum. It's going to be powered by a 2hp motor running to a jackshaft and then around the 4' pulley on the end of the drum, giving the drum a final speed of between 16-18 rpm's.

bob,


you were just about right on the money when you guessed the compost maker. This 4' x 6' drum is actually going to be a fur tumbler for tumbling and breaking leather for tanned hides and leather. I purchased the plans from a tannery. Bruce (the owner) is somewhat vague on the instructions in the plans. As for the pulley groove the instructions say " using a router cut a groove around the outside edge of the 4' pulley". I would think that as long as I have good belt tension I would not have to worry too much about belt slippage, but keep in mind that this drum will also have 150 pounds of sawdust inside it. I will be using an A -belt. An A-belt angle is 36 degrees. The belt will be around a considerable portion of the drum. I think the most important thing is having an "edge" to keep the belt on the pulley but I may be wrong here. 

I'll be contacting the designer/author of these plans and ask him what style of groove he refers to in the plans also. I'll post his response here.



Thank you,
Jim


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Murray

Thanks for the chart 

Most of the time my head would be under the hood of a car or truck trying to fit the right belt in place,the chart would be great if I knew all the facts just like many tools that I have put new belts on..once they break and you look in the manual all you get is a part number for a belt and that's about it.,,they it's off to the parts store to try and match up what's left of the old belt after it's been running that way for years and it's a bit over size.. 

=========



Lemuzz said:


> bobj3 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Mike
> ...


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## Lemuzz (Jul 25, 2008)

huntersridge said:


> Thank you for all the replies to this topic. I had a hard time signing in after registering so it took forever to reply back to your replies.
> I'll try and explain this project a little better.
> The 4' pulley is going to attached on one end of a 4'w X 6'h wooden drum. It's going to be powered by a 2hp motor running to a jackshaft and then around the 4' pulley on the end of the drum, giving the drum a final speed of between 16-18 rpm's.
> 
> ...


I think your problem won't be with the large pulley but rather the small pulley. As a pulley relies on sufficient wrap to create grip and even with a load of only 150 lbs this will no doubt all be on the bottom of the drum. It maybe impossible to get sufficient tension. Do a drawing of the angle of the belt entering and leaving the small pulley and you will get an idea if it will work. You could provide an additional idler pulley running on the back of the belt close to the small pulley on the slack side of the belt to give more wrap to Another option could be a timing belt and pulley. You would have no problem then, if indeed they are made in the size you require.


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

Rather than trying to make the V groove in one piece of plywood... 
it might be a lot easier to get the correct angle for the belt by putting two pieces of plywood together after just cutting the proper half angle on them... if you make a circle cutting mounted 2 feet from your blade tilted at the proper angle a good straight blade will do it... 
I have a heavy 3 phase electric motor which I was going to use as a lathe head... the insides are taken out and I do not have 3 phase power anyway... it has zerk fittings for the huge bearings so I was hoping to mount ' logs' 8 feet long on it.. and wanted to index it for spirals and such.. so I was looking at a huge plywood indexing wheel mounted outboard to accomplish that task. If you have a four foot diameter wheel and measure along the outside to divide it... you can get amazingly accurate placement of whatever it is controlling... primitive but plenty accurate. A substitution of ' Low tech Brawn/Mass' for high cost metal indexing fixtures...


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## GBM (Dec 18, 2007)

For the smaller wheel... a couple or three small spring loaded presser wheels against it will probably be sufficient...


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## huntersridge (Mar 4, 2009)

GBM,

You are right on the money!! I contacted the designer/author of these plans. Although it is not clearly explained in the plans, the pulley is made from TWO (2) sheets of plywood and not one. He says that he does not know what bit he used but each sheet is routered and then placed together forming one pulley 1 1/2" wide. An A-belt has an angle of 36 degrees. The only bits I see avaiable ar 45's, 30's and 22 degrees. I know that it may not have to be precise, but just for kicks what if one were to use the 45 or 30 degree bit and "shim" one side of the router giving it the correct 36 degrees.

LEMUZZ,
You make an interesting point on the pulley sizing and belt wrap. I will recalculate the pulley sizes and use something larger to give me a little more "wrap" on the pulley but still get me down around 16-18 rpm's.

Thank you,
Jim


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

This is not rocket science. A simple chamfering bit with bearing like the one Woodcraft has on sale for $5 will work just fine. The link belt will not care about the few degrees difference in the angle of the slot. Belt tension is the main concern, and instead of playing with spring arms or idler wheels there is a replacement item made from UHMW. This looks for the world like a pulley that has been cut in half and the ends flipped. It is held by two pieces of flat UHMW with holes in them that can be cut to length. The belt runs inside this device and everything slips just fine on the UHMW surfaces with no wear. Think of this device as pulling the belt into a figure 8. This will allow the small pulley to get plenty of purchase on the belt. I used one on a metal turnings conveyor that rose at about a 45º angle and put an end to constantly replacing a spring arm idler. If the chain with metal turnings didn't cause wear imagine how well it would perform with a link belt. I bought mine from IDC, Industrial Drive Components in Warren, MI.


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## Ralph Barker (Dec 15, 2008)

If my thinking is tilted in the right direction, I'd use a 30° bit, and fashion a 6° wedge for the "inside" of the baseplate, resulting in a 36° cut on the upper edge of the workpiece.


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## huntersridge (Mar 4, 2009)

Mike,

I am not the world's greatest keyboard operator so it takes me a little while to put my words onto here. The belt entions will not be an issues here. The tumbler will have belt tensioners built into the unit. The tensioners are theaded shafts on each side of the "drum". Each side of the drum has a one inch (1") drive shaft a foot long. These sit onto the sides of the drum in a flange bearing. The other end goes through a 2" x 2" block of tube steel. The block of 2 x 2 steel is welded to another short block of 2 1/2" tube steel 6" long. This unti slides over the 2" x 2" tube steel frame. Welded to the 2 x 2 tube steel frame and the 2 1/4" tube steel block are two pieces of angle iron. Each short piece of angle iron has a 3/4" hole in it. The threaded rod in the hole has nuts on both ends (4). The adjusts the entire drum up or down the 2 x 2 steel frame. This levels the drum as well as tensions the belt. 
The tension was never the issue. I just needed an opinion on bit angles and what method you folks would use to router this profile into the 2 sheets of 3/4" x 48" sheets of plywood. If anyone is confused please let me know and I will try and explain this in more detail.

Thank you,
Jim Roberts
Harrison, MI


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