# depth with 1/10mm steps



## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm interested in routers which uses 240v. and with a 1/10mm depth control. The blue pro Bosch has it and apparently Festo but how is it with the other labels? I'm using Leigh D4R and it's tricky to get the right bit depth on an old Elu MOF96.


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## OPG3 (Jan 9, 2011)

Esko, Do you realize that is about the equivalent to the thickness of one sheet of paper?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I doubt there would be room for glue, making for a weak joint.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Perhaps Esko's question was misunderstood? All he's asking is if there are other routers that have the fine adjustment calibrated in 1/10 mm increments. In effect he's asking to be able to _accurately_ set a 10.3mm depth difference from a 10.7mm depth (for example). No guessing. Seems reasonable. Foe sure a piece of 20lb bond stands proud of a smooth table top; three thicknesses would be an issue.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

" but how is it with the other labels"
************************************
Essentially any depth of cut change is possible with most plunge routers.
A feeler gage (with or without the turret) will allow precise changes.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank's Pat and Dan.
Pat. The plunge-router is an odball here in Finland. Ofcourse I'v seen those in pics in books and magazines but I haven't had such in my hand or seen it in toolstores.
Dan. You'r on the right track. 
There is a diference. I get less sanding when I have an easy depth control on my router. 
Ofcourse you guys use leigh and similar jigs all the time and I just don't know how to use mine.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tiny said:


> Thank's Pat and Dan.
> Pat. The plunge-router is an odball here in Finland. Ofcourse I'v seen those in pics in books and magazines but I haven't had such in my hand or seen it in toolstores.
> Dan. You'r on the right track.
> There is a diference. I get less sanding when I have an easy depth control on my router.
> Ofcourse you guys use leigh and similar jigs all the time and I just don't know how to use mine.


"I get less sanding when I have an easy depth control on my router. "

Basically, your perfect Finnish... heheheh


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

The Triton router with it's micro adjuster can be set to any depth within the range.

I suspect that any router with a micro adjuster will suffice.

At the recent Sydney wood show a demonstrator advised that each turn of the knob was about 0.1mm.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

"There is a diference. I get less sanding when I have an easy depth control on my router." 
*************************
You're suggesting fixed base routers might be able to hit a .1mm target. They will not.
Their primary disadvantage. None of them can make a 4 mil change and hit that change without some iteration. No fixed base router can hit target depth (in the hand) on the first shot except x luck. Plungers can but not fixed base.


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## giltic (Sep 27, 2010)

Green Bosch POF 1400 ACE also has 1/10mm depth control. I can adjust the depth of cut fast and accurate.


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## AndyL (Jun 3, 2011)

DaninVan said:


> Perhaps Esko's question was misunderstood? All he's asking is if there are other routers that have the fine adjustment calibrated in 1/10 mm increments. In effect he's asking to be able to _accurately_ set a 10.3mm depth difference from a 10.7mm depth (for example). No guessing. Seems reasonable.


Definitely reasonable. With a dovetail jig I find 0.2mm either way on depth adjustment can make the difference between a good joint and one which is either too loose or won't go together. I rely on a bit of trial and error to get the depth right but it would be nice to be able to just dial it straight in.



jw2170 said:


> The Triton router with it's micro adjuster can be set to any depth within the range.
> 
> I suspect that any router with a micro adjuster will suffice.
> 
> At the recent Sydney wood show a demonstrator advised that each turn of the knob was about 0.1mm.


On the Triton MOF001 each mark on the fine adjuster is 0.2mm, and one full turn is 2mm. Not sure about the bigger model. The control is certainly fine enough to make 0.1mm adjustments but gear backlash is a problem. You get a bit of a "dead spot" when you switch from adjusting up to adjusting down, which would need a bit of finesse to take out of the equation if you wanted to achieve 0.1mm accuracy.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks for making that clear, Andy.

I was going from memory..


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank's Andy for explaining these experts
how tricky dovtailjoints can be... B-)


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thank you for the good answers. 
But what was the original 
Q: Is there enough space for pvac?
Q: Are there other labels on the market with 1/10mm depth control than Bosch?
Can't remember anymore...


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Esko, the after lock fine adjustment on the Bosch MRC23EVSK is hard to beat. In Europe it is called the GOF600.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Tiny said:


> I'm interested in routers which uses 240v. and with a 1/10mm depth control. The blue pro Bosch has it and apparently Festo but how is it with the other labels? I'm using Leigh D4R and it's tricky to get the right bit depth on an old Elu MOF96.


Hi Esko

These routers may well have a 1/10mm setting on their depth scales, but I question how accurate any of them are because they will all suffer from backlash in the adjuster rendering their scale calibration next to useless. You could achieve the desired result with your old MOF96 (or for that matter any other plunge router) simply by bolting-on an electronic DRO (digital read out) and scale, such as one of those by Wixey. 

To my knowledge there has only ever been one router brand which was fitted with a dial calliper to achieve a similar effect - Metabo. These days they only sell one router with such a facility, the 8mm-1/4in Signal Ofe.1229










They used to sell a 1/2in router, the OFe.1812 (actually made by Felisatti in Italy, but with some Metabo-only additional features, including the dial indicator) 










but this was dropped a year or two back. If you really need one you might get lucky by Googling the model 

I've used the Signal - it's made by Metabo in Germany (not bought-in or Chinese) and is very reminiscent of the MOF96 design if a little lighter, even the fences are interchangeable. In the past a variant of this model, without the dial scale, was also sold under the Holz-Her name, another quality make.

Regards

Phil


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thanks Phil. You have illustrated me everything about the router depth adjustment. 
With your info I understand that I have been unprecise. The backlash doesn't bother me that mush. I could even be happy with a microadjuster with only + and - marks. But with dovetail joints thats not enough.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

I don't think its been mentioned but on any machine thats got a threaded adjuster if you find out the pitch of the thread you can work out a kind of a scale even if it doesn't have lines calibrated on it.

For instance if its got a 1mm thread (thats would be an M6 thread and yeah this is metric) a half turn is fairly unsurprisingly half a mm.
Its the principle behind micrometers anyway. 
I have a metric micrometer that has a thimble with .5mm thread pitch and a full turn equals half a mm, the scale on the thimble reads upto 50 so every increment is a hundredth of a milimetre and two turns is a mm.

Obviously there's backlash to be taken into account and its possible to get shim washers that lessen it, in some cases its possible to split the nut on the adjuster and put a grub screw into separate it slightly like lathe adjusters but thats only really possible on big stuff and its not really happening on a router.

Even just measuring the thread pitch of any adjuster and writing the result next to it helps work things out I think.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Hi Scott!
You know. Sometimes you have the obvious answer right in front of you but yoyu cannot read it. I bought the router new and since then I've hit my head against the workshopwall because the lack of fineadjuster. And now you have kindly showed me that it was all for nothing. I wish I would have joined this forum as early as 1995.
Many thanks Scott!!!
Hope I now can get rid of the red colour on the wall... 
Say, do you know does the clone machine accessories fit EluMOF96. I need a dust port and the original Elu/DeWalt makes 80-90€ in Finland.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

demographic said:


> I don't think its been mentioned but on any machine thats got a threaded adjuster if you find out the pitch of the thread you can work out a kind of a scale even if it doesn't have lines calibrated on it.
> 
> For instance if its got a 1mm thread (thats would be an M6 thread and yeah this is metric) a half turn is fairly unsurprisingly half a mm.
> Its the principle behind micrometers anyway.
> ...


_ I have an epiphany... thanks ...
Hidden in plain sight....:blink::blink_


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

Esko, there is a simple method to reduce the back lash problem in the height adjustment mechanisms. Always make your adjustments going up. If you are too high lower your router and then bring it back up to your height. This takes out the play as much as possible because the weight of the router is making the screw work to raise it. This is one of the lessons from Bob Rosendahl of the Router Workshop and it makes sense to me.

Keep in mind that for most projects you must leave some room for the glue. As the glue is absorbed into the wood it causes swelling. If your joint is too tight you will in effect squeeze out too much glue resulting in a weak bond.

While I have never found the need to use gauging for setting bit heights I know others feel more comfortable using this method. I have a Betterley UniGauge for setting up equipment and a similar method for setting your bit height/fence might ease your mind. The UniGauge has both metric and SAE legs for adjustments and can be purchased with either a dial indicator or a digital gauge.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

And to add to Mike's approach:
***************************
I agree, the best way to adjust the fixed base router is up the gradient against gravity.
Indeed, most if not all the back lash will be cancelled adjusting against gravity.
Notwithstanding, The router fiducials (lines & numbers) are gross approximations.
Moreover, parallax, slop, technique sensitivity and so on still leaves us with a guess at depth.
An iteration/test is required to find out where the cutter is really cutting.
And, of course, where anything is set, {except precision tooling (and routers are anything but)} is not necessarily where it cuts. There is the machine signature and setup to account for.
We can get close but the net measured depth of cut is your best approximation. And best done on scrap under the same setup conditions as the project stock.


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

I've just had a look at my Hitachi M12V2 router with a thread gauge and the main height adjuster has a 2mm thread pitch so one full turn alters its height by 2mm, half a turn 1mm, quarter turn 0.5mm and so on.
There's twelve bumps on the top adjusting knob so each bump is equal to 0.16666666 (recurring) mm of adjustment.

The baseplate fence adjuster has 1.5mm pitch thread so a full turn moves it 1.5mm, half a turn 0.75mm and a quarter turn 0.35mm and so on. I counted the little high points on the baseplate fence adjuster and I think* its got seventy two of them so each high point is 0.0208mm round from the next.

Obviously there's backlash(which is nicely covered above in this thread) and things move but this is woodwork anyway and nothings perfect. 
Main point is that just because there's no graduated scale on your powertool adjusters doesn't mean you can't make some up, put a dot or several onto the adjusters and mark what pitch the threads are. Hell you could even go crazy and print a stick on graduated scale for the tops of your adjusters.

Just a thread pitch gauge and a calculator go a long way.

Any adjuster thats just got a nut or bolt on it can be divided into six by using the corners or flats, and 12 by using the corners and flats if you get my drift.
Sometimes that might work out well with increments and sometimes (depending on thread pitch) it will be awkward and kind of unwieldy increments.

I have no idea if routers sold in the US have metric threads on their adjusters or imperial, you will have to check that out for yourself.

All of the above is "Ideal world" accuracy and the real figures will vary depending on a number of factors, I'm basically fairly green to all this router business so I'm sure you folk will know more about those factors than I do.

Edit, I've just had a good look at my De-Walt 26200 compact router which has metric settings on the adjusting ring. Thing is that the numbers go both ways round it, upto 6 and a bit. Huh? Six and bit mm for half a turn?
That would be 6.35mm then, for half a turn of the adjuster.
So, what I have is a half inch pitch to the body adjusting thread and metric mm numbering system.
To me thats a bit like measuring something then giving its size as a foot and 7mm.
Great... If De-Walt had though it through a little better they could have made the thread pitch of the router body (on European models anyway) 10mm and had ten increments of 1mm.

That would be what I call metric instead of the half arsed way they did it on the one I own. 
Other than that I really like the little router and much prefer it to the (admittedly smaller) Bosch and Makita laminate trimmers I've used.








*My lovely wife asked me a question in the middle of counting it and I'm not positive. Might count it again later on.


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## mgdaoju (Aug 13, 2011)

Good luck and let us know your results


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Hi Scott. This is great:
"just because there's no graduated scale on your powertool adjusters doesn't mean you can't make some up".
Allways thought that the revolver type hight adjuster is only for very coarce.. adjustments.
The sqrews I have never understans of. But now you have "filled my my soul with happines and glory". Can you do that allso with vac attachement? : )
Now I only have to make it work in my head, if you get my point : )
You guys have clearly encreased the amount of knowledge in english of what there is with router. My vokabularity (english words) in routerstuff is 80% or more than before joining the forum!


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## demographic (Aug 12, 2012)

Tiny said:


> Hi Scott. This is great:
> "just because there's no graduated scale on your powertool adjusters doesn't mean you can't make some up".
> Allways thought that the revolver type hight adjuster is only for very coarce.. adjustments.
> The sqrews I have never understans of. But now you have "filled my my soul with happines and glory". Can you do that allso with vac attachement? : )
> ...


You're English is a lot better than my Finnish and I'm learning myself.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

"_I'm interested in routers which uses 240v. and with a 1/10mm depth control. The blue pro Bosch has it and apparently Festo but how is it with the other labels? I'm using Leigh D4R and it's tricky to get the right bit depth on an old Elu MOF96._"
I was wondering that did I mentioning anything about how I use my router. No, I did not. Well I use it mobile, handheld. Not attached to the table. On the other hand you can't use leigh with a table mounted router either.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Scott. The most important you have to learn, first, is ofcourse:
Yläjyrsin=Router
Keskustelupalsta=Forum
Jalkapallo=Soccer
Äiti=Mother
Kiitos=Thank you
Ei=No
Lehtisaha=scrolsaw
Tammi=Oak
In my saunathread there is more important Finnish words. With your new Fennougric contakcts you can add phrases(Kiitos Dan)that match the conversation. Eg.
"Your wife looks nice in "löyly". 

Have a nice day


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Thanks Mg for kicking me in the back part of my body. There was still much to say but I just had other things in my horisont.
Kiitos!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Tiny; your translations didn't mention
-beer
-more
-yes
-please


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

You angloamericans are so polite. You use so many words to a simple question. I think that normaly it goes: "Lisää bissee!".
That could be: "Mooore brew!".

beer=olut
more=lisää
yes =kyllä
please=olkaa hyvä, 

That phrase in a distinguishead restaurant could be:
"Saisinko lisää olutta, Kiitos."
Straight translation would be: "Olutta lisää."
Yo Dan. Tell me were is your nearest Suomi(Finland)bar?
I think you should learn some adequate Finnish phrases.
-Oisko jotakin papereita? = Do you have any ID? If they think you, Dan, are underaged (18years).
-Tuleeks Visalla? = Do you pay with Visa-card?
-Tanssimmeko ensin? = Shall we dance first?
-Taitaa kaverilla olla liikaa vauhtia! = Mr. seams to be to drunk!
-Pilkku!! = Last moment to order (alcohol)!!
-Meille vai teille? = My place or yours?
-Vitun Ämmä!!! F...ing *****!!!
-Onks sulla toista korttia? Tää ei skulaa. = Do you have an other (credit)card? This doesn't work.
sorry have to go- sori pakko mennä
=D


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

ROTFLMAO!
My _closest_ 'bar' is the Royal Canadian Legion; maybe 3-4 min. drive. "Meille vai teille?" is a scary thought... 

May I say that your English, when expressed as humour, is excellent!


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

Since you allready have that rolling in your vascular Dan, maby you should do your Sherlock Holms and check the meaning of the _most important Finnish word_ "LÖYLY" from the Sauna-thread and combine it with one phrase I told Scott could try with his future Fennougric friends. I promise, that has nothing to do with female animals(like in earlier post). Pardon for my French. I was only nine when we moved from Paris...
What do you call such a person who starts to climb up to the powerline when you say to him/her: "You don't have the nerve to climb up there!" In Finnish he/she is "yllytyshullu".


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

"May I say...". You know it is allways dangerous to call an prohobbist woodworkwer with kind words. We have a saying about persons who thinks they are bigger than they think (NOT ME). It's about the stuff your kidnys produce. (Ofcourse I might be such a person but I don't have yellow eyeballs anyway.)
-It seams like my 49m3 sliped from my fingers, sorry guys. This really should be in the lobby, yes? 
= Näyttää siltä että mopo lähti vähän käsistä, sori jätkät. Tän pitäis oikeastaan olla aulassa, eiks nii?


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## Drew Eckhardt (Aug 2, 2008)

harrysin said:


> I doubt there would be room for glue, making for a weak joint.


.1mm is .004". On joints like lock miters (think about it - piece on the table is indexing off the inside edge of the corner while the piece vertical against the fence is indexing off the outside) the error is doubled and .008" is a gap almost big enough to slide three sheets of paper in.

Of course, it's a router not a vertical mill and may take some iteration to get there.

You can get much, much tighter before you have problems.


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

If you have done dovetail joints, with a saw and a chicle(taltta) or a router you should know that it is so good a joint that you don't need any glue. You can lock the hole thing with several other ways. Maby you guys try to convince me that it will collaps because of the lack of diagonal streght or something. Everybody says that the router is the most versitale machin in the world. Why do you use glue if it is so? The dovetail joint is a locking joint and you really don't need any glue. Specialy in england and usa you have wonderful hardwood. When using one of them and a locking joint, in my opinion, you need glue only if you don't trust your self as a woodworker or you are not enough skiled. When I was studing in 1990 our class visited a exhibition in Helsinki which could have been arranged by Fine Woodwork or similar. It was held in The Museum of Arts and Crafts (nowdays Designe museum). It was an amazing experience and it really blowed my mind and imagination in woodworking. There was many wonderfull things I never had seen or heard of before. There was one special object that cought me; a big dining table without anything chemical (glue etc.) or metal (sqrews or nails). 
So really, the glue is not an issue here. Besides, if you, Harrisyn, have done propper and tight dovetail joints, lets say a bookshelf, you know that the joint really doesn't need any glue. If you allso have a back piece with sliding dovtail, I garantie that it sits there until the en of the world. Ofcource your wood has to be as good as the joint.


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## Tool Home LLC (Sep 18, 2012)

> I'm interested in routers which uses 240v. and with a 1/10mm depth control. The blue pro Bosch has it *and apparently Festo* but how is it with the other labels?


All of the current Festool routers have infinitely variable micro-adjusters. Each mark on the adjusters equals .1mm and one full turn equals 1mm.


Tom


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## Tiny (Aug 12, 2012)

How is it Tom, when you turn the micro-adjuster, does it move the bit or do you still have to open the lock, push or pull from handles and finaly close the lock?


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## Tool Home LLC (Sep 18, 2012)

Tiny said:


> How is it Tom, when you turn the micro-adjuster, does it move the bit or do you still have to open the lock, push or pull from handles and finaly close the lock?


You plunge to locate the bit to the work for zero and lock the plunge. Loosen the plunge limiter lock and set the plunge limiter to the turret. Move the plunge scale to establish zero. Lift the plunge limiter to course adjust using the scale. Then, you set the plunge limiter lock and use the micro-adjuster for fine tuning of the plunge limit.


Tom


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Check out the Makita RP2301FC, it claims to have incremental adjustment in 0.1mm steps.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Tool Home LLC said:


> All of the current Festool routers have infinitely variable micro-adjusters. Each mark on the adjusters equals .1mm and one full turn equals 1mm.


Hi Tom

They may have the markings, but the mechanism still suffers from slop

Regards

Phil


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