# Sigh... all that work for nothing...



## tdsapp (Apr 23, 2009)

So I between going out and buying the wood and working on the jig I spent most of yesterday building a box joint jig. It's a 1/4" jig and I did the set up to test it with hardboard. 

I finally got it adjusted where it made a real nice set of joints. The hardboard would chip out badly or the surface layer would de-laminate. I figured that it was just the board. 

So I ripped the 1/4" poplar down to the size I needed for the candle stands I was planning on building. I grabbed a couple scraps so I could make sure that the setup that I came up with using the hardboard would work. It did not... The poplar was apparently more brittle than the hard board. Every time I tried to cut a pin it would break lose and go flying across the room. (or at least 3 or 4 feet.) 

I gave up and moved on to the next project as I wanted the candle holders as a Christmas present. 

Any ideas what I need to do to make it work with this wood?

Tim


----------



## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Tim,
The Rockler box joint jig is well worth the money IMHO. 
It could use some improvements but it works well and accurately.
Would be $80 well spent if you are into box making.

It sounds like your bit is dull to me though honestly. 
Try cleaning it with simple green or orange clean. If it still does it after cleaning replace the bit.
You can also use a backer board and a sacrificial board up front of the work piece while cutting your joints to prevent tear out and "fly away's ".


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tim

You can try this, don't back out of the pass, if the jig is just off a little bit the router bit will hang up on it if you back out and snap the part free...

=========


----------



## Mike Gager (Jan 14, 2009)

do you have any pictures of your set up? might help us figure out whats wrong


----------



## rwyoung (Aug 3, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Tim
> 
> You can try this, don't back out of the pass, if the jig is just off a little bit the router bit will hang up on it if you back out and snap the part free...
> 
> =========


+1 on don't run backwards across the jig. Lift off the workpiece and backer board after the pass.

Also, if you can get one, a spiral bit seems to do a better job with these jigs. That said, I've used a straight cutter but only on larger fingers. To minimize chipping on the piece I wrapped the cutting area in blue tape. Seemed to help.


----------



## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

There is a cheap and easy jig that Norm makes for box joints. It is done on the table saw. Basically a vertical board, mounted to a miter gauge, with two rectangular dowels and a dado in the vertical board.

Very easy to make and works great and does not cost a thing.

I suggest a board in front and in back of your work to reduce the change of tear out while cutting.


----------



## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I make all my box joints on the TS and never had that problem.


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

I Can't wait till you try the OP box joints jigs out, it will blow your mind how easy and fast you can make them..  and they always come out just right every time...unlike the table saw way, been there done that..  or should I say the dado saw king way (Norm A. way)

=========



Ghidrah said:


> I make all my box joints on the TS and never had that problem.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

I crank out box joints on the TS without a hitch.. nice clean joints...

no need for an OP


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

+1 on the oak park box joint jigs! they work time after time and are so simple to use. 

i might add that they are priced very reasonably.


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

Are you using a backer board or push block, sandwiching the piece between 2 scrap pieces? These will help. I'm with Bj about the use of the OP jigs, they can't be beat. Setup is a breeze and accurate.

For those that prefer the use of the table saw, I'm not against the use of the TS in creating box joints, ( I've done them myself this way), but, there is a flaw in this use. I simply ask you to take a close look at the joint. You'll see a slight "U" shape in the cut. With the router, it's square and no gap. The best DVD that proves this point, is, from WoodSmith, about their Box joint jig.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ken..

I use a freud box joint cutter set, and get flat bottoms every time... I'm limited to 1/4 and 3/8" joints, but for box joints and me, thats fine...anything bigger i go to the rt..


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Bill,

that sounds great, but with the op set you have three sizes plus you dont have to change blades on a ts. its simple to put the spacer on the rt and away you go. 

you really should try it!


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Bill,

Then they must've redesigned the blades. The last set of box blades, they left that "U" shape, just the way the blade is/was made. This is why I've gone back to using the RT.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Ken..
Freud Box Joint / Dado Saw Blade Sets

this is the set i've been using, "U" grooves? nope.. good flat bottoms..


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

That's a nice set for a 100.oo it should be, but for a 10.oo dollar router bit you can do the same..and you don't need to take the table saw down..  just for some slots..


========


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Bob.. your right, it is a nice set...


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

wow, 100 bucks ? im glad i got the op jigs!


----------



## jlord (Nov 16, 2009)

TwoSkies57 said:


> Ken..
> Freud Box Joint / Dado Saw Blade Sets
> 
> this is the set i've been using, "U" grooves? nope.. good flat bottoms..


I have the 8" super dado set. Never regretted the purchase even at the price. works as expected.


----------



## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi James

most of us have either the 6 or 8" dado set. i have the 8"inch freud. 

but sometimes something easier comes along aka op box joint jig.

freud makes great tools, but the op box joint jig is the easiest smoothest working jig ive seen to make box joints and the setup is so much faster than setting up a ts.

just my .02 cents.


----------



## TwoSkies57 (Feb 23, 2009)

Hey James..

got a couple older craftsman dado sets I pretty much use for "plowing". and a craftsman dial'a'dado setup which works fair to middlin..cut is fine, just alot of playing around to get
it set to the correct width. I've been around quality sets in use and have to say, a good 
set is quite impressive..


----------



## tdsapp (Apr 23, 2009)

Wow... I put this post up last night after 11 PM and when I come back to it it's on it's third page of reply's... This is my fastest growing thread to date on here... 


So, here are some photos of what I tried to use.






































I have never seen any other jigs out and about but then again.... I have never really looked for any of them. I saw this jig in a couple magizines and figured that it could not be that hard. It was actually easy to create the jig, and was harder to set it up than it was to build the jig. 

I am thinking that it might be the sharpness of the bit in this case. I started to notice that it was looking a bit dark. I used it in the past to create some centering rings for my rockets so it has had some use on it in the past.

I also do not have a good dado blade right now. I am using a wobble blade and will be adding to dado to the collection later.

Tim


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Tim,

Your setup is identical to what's used as a home-made/shop-made jig for use on a TS. They DO work, don't get wrong about that.


----------



## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

tdsapp said:


> So I between going out and buying the wood and working on the jig I spent most of yesterday building a box joint jig. It's a 1/4" jig and I did the set up to test it with hardboard.
> 
> I finally got it adjusted where it made a real nice set of joints. The hardboard would chip out badly or the surface layer would de-laminate. I figured that it was just the board.
> 
> ...



Tim,

You do not say if you clamp the workpiece to the jig.

This may help to hold it steady.

You may be moving the workpiece very slightly when pulling it back,


James


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Tim

Nice jig , may I offer a suggest,,,don't use your tee slot ,use a brass guide in your router table, that way it's always dead on...no chance of the jig to get off plus you can push it in from any angle..

here's a snapshot of what I mean,you will see a slot in the bottom of the jig for the guide to run in, to edit your jig that you now have just pop in a the bit you want to use ( 3/4" works well for the slot) lift the bit up 1/4" high run it over the bit and you have it done.(don't go all the way you want a stop point for your jig ,, no neeed to blow out the back side of you jig.,,, (if you want to use it for 1/4"/3/8"/and 1/2" all you need is a slip in key ,like you now have for the 1/4" slots,,,once you have that done put in a 3/4" brass guide in your router table top then remove the jig from the miter gauge, now your set to put in box joints easy and true...


=====


tdsapp said:


> Wow... I put this post up last night after 11 PM and when I come back to it it's on it's third page of reply's... This is my fastest growing thread to date on here...
> 
> 
> So, here are some photos of what I tried to use.
> ...


----------



## Duane867 (Oct 25, 2008)

Hi Tim,
Nice DIY jig  
Yeah I would inspect that bit real well and clean it for sure. 
It wouldn't hurt to use an up cut spiral bit as well. They do make a world of difference. 
They remove the material in more of a slicing action like using a knife at an angle on a corner then chipping out like a straight bit seems to. 

The Rockler jig uses the Miter slot as well but you do not ride the miter slot to make the cut. The miter slot is simply a way of anchoring the sled's base to the table. I think you would really like it if you gave it a shot. 
I have not used the Oak Park jig like every one else but I am sure its great as well.


----------



## Mike Wingate (Apr 26, 2009)

I had a similar jig on my router table. With clamps and a pair of backing boards, it was o.k. I now use my Incra Ultra set-up and get far better results if I wear my glasses. Your bit looks less than sharp!


----------



## GreggZ (Dec 30, 2009)

I use a 2 flute end mill available from machine tool suppliers such as Wholesale tool for box joints. They are cheap enough to buy a handfull and just discard when dull. Cuts are beautiful.


----------



## Sooner (Nov 3, 2009)

After trying the woodsmith box joint jig I am of the opinion that simple is better, and by that I mean that seeing the problems I have with the woodsmith I believe that the OP jig set would alleviate them.

The woodsmith is an estruded aluminum fence piece with a lip at the bottom where your material rests. The first issue here is you are limited by the plunge depth of your router in the table as to the thickness of the boards you can use due to the extra half inch base that your material rests on I was unable to make the pins long enough to be just proud of the joints on materials that were 3/4" in thickness.

The second issue I had with it is that when attached to the miter guage it lifts the leading edge of the sled off the table slightly, requiring you to push down fairly hard in order to get it to meet the table or at the very least resulting in tails that are not a consistent depth.


----------



## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Daniel,

I too have the woodsmith jig. If you have the DVD, you should notice that, they don't recommend using a router bit any larger than 3/8". Kinda makes the jig useless. 

As you've probably noticed, the OP jigs takes out all the errors that the woodsmith jig has. OP box joint jigs are so versatile, just like their Miter gauge.


----------



## RLFX (Nov 20, 2009)

Bobj3 is right you have to watch out when you back your bit out it will tare away ..

"don't back out of the pass, if the jig is just off a little bit the router bit will hang up on it"


----------



## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

Heres my cheap but efective FJ jig, it cost me the time to make only. I can do 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8" fingers. Eventually when I need to do a 7/16" to whatever size I'll cut it into the 4th side of the board and store its peg in a slot.

The 2nd pic, if you look hard you can see the finger pegs stored at the ends.

The 3rd pic is the 1st FJ box project the original board, 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", (which I can't seem to find) cut 20 to 22 yrs ago. 

I made the mistake of using raw linseed oil on the box and it seemed like it took a couple yrs to be dry to the touch. I've only oiled the cover once since making it maybe 10 yrs ago, the cover is thin and began cupping around 1996/97 shortly after buying a dehumidifier for the shop.

P.S.
Is there a way to use/post pics from your own gallery in the same fashion as uploaded ones?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

They now make a bits for just that type of job,it's quick and easy to make a box joints..I have the yellow one and the white from Elite and I do like the one from Elite over the ebay one..it's all one bit without spacers..and I do like the Alum.box it comes in 

5/32" wide cutters
1 PC 1/2" SH 5 Slots Adjustable Box Joint Router Bit - eBay (item 130354823798 end time Jan-02-10 18:22:52 PST)

3/16" wide cutters
Elite Tools Your cutting tools specialist {Products - Router Bit Set}

" Is there a way to use/post pics from your own gallery in the same fashion as uploaded ones? " = the easy way just open the picture and just copy and paste in the URL address..in your post, your gallery is locked more or less..

=====

========



Ghidrah said:


> Heres my cheap but efective FJ jig, it cost me the time to make only. I can do 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8" fingers. Eventually when I need to do a 7/16" to whatever size I'll cut it into the 4th side of the board and store its peg in a slot.
> 
> The 2nd pic, if you look hard you can see the finger pegs stored at the ends.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ghidrah (Oct 21, 2008)

I've seen those finger bits before but never used one.
How would you line up accurate fingers for a box higher that the stroke of the router?
Flip the piece and use brass bars?


----------



## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron

Once you make the 1st pass then just flip the stock over..to get the height you want it to be.
Just move the bit up so it lines up on the 1st. pass..

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/16953-deb.html

=======



Ghidrah said:


> I've seen those finger bits before but never used one.
> How would you line up accurate fingers for a box higher that the stroke of the router?
> Flip the piece and use brass bars?


----------

