# Miter Saw or Table Saw



## bdbailey (Oct 5, 2016)

Hi! I'm preparing my family's garage to have basic woodworking tools. Both the miter saw and table saw seem useful, but we should be careful with our budget. Which saw would be a better "first"? We have an old circular saw, jigsaw, and... that's it. Some basic hand-saws and now a coping saw. I know a miter saw can cut great, accurate angles, which would be wonderful for every project. But if we want to run longer boards, I think a table saw would be the right tool. For what we do (smaller projects/home improvement) I think the miter saw would be great. Since we've never owned either type of saw, however, I can't say. Down the road, can we get a higher-quality circular saw and mount it to a table? Also, is it fine to buy these power tools used?

Apologies, usually my posts are well-organized, but this one turned into a long mess. Any advice is very welcome!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

IMO there both the first things you buy , but if I could only have one it would definitely be a table saw. Table saws usually come with miter gauges , so you can do angled cuts too .
A little more versatile than the wmiter saw .

My concern is the fence on cheaper models of table saws will give you headaches . My first saw was a Delta contractors saw ,but I ordered it with the Beisemeyer fence which is a tank and won't have any deflection issues


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## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

My very first table saw was a Craftsmn $167 piece of junk, I couldn't give it away fast enough, so try to buy the best that you can afford and if you can't afford a fairly decent tool, save your money until you can. If you buy cheap, in the long run it will be the most expensive. I think that trying to put a circular will give you to many head aches, but that's just my opinion.

If you are careful and have the time, you can do a lot with your hand saws to start with untul you decide on what you really want and can afford. Wishing you the best,

Jerry


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## JOAT (Apr 9, 2010)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> My concern is the fence on cheaper models of table saws will give you headaches .


Indeed. The solution is to hang the fence on the wall, and make at least one saw sled. Worked like a charm for my Harbor Freight saw, the one I still have, and use.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

My table saw is the most important tool in my shop and I didn't scrimp on it, it's a 3 hp Unisaw. Spend enough to get a good one, it doesn't have to be a unisaw, but make sure it has a good fence as mentioned. You can do very good miters on a table saw. I have 2 sleds that come in very handy. One is for 90 degree square crosscuts and the other is square 45 degree cuts. A good after market miter gauge will give you very accurate angled cuts (Osborn, Incra, Kreg, and JDS Accumiter all make good miter gauges). Between the sleds and the after market miter gauges you can do anything a chop saw can do and with wider material. The trade off is that you are constantly adjusting the table saw which is slower than adjusting chop saws.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

If you're talking about construction, Ben, as opposed to cabinetry or fine woodworking, I'm going to be the odd man out here.
No question in my mind that for doing reno's a sliding compound mitre saw (as opposed to a straight chop saw) is far more practical. You just can't handle long lengths on a table saw...who has that kind of real estate around their tablesaw?
There's not much you can't do with a good quality circ. saw, good blades, and some simple to make jigs, for the ripping and panel cutting that are all part of the process.
Don't skimp on the blades! Having said that, I picked up a Cdn. Tire house brand thin kerf blade for my SiL's circ. saw and I was blown away by how easily it ripped down 1" thick PT decking material; as fast as I could slide the saw it made the cuts effortlessly!

* Oh! And you can take the SCMS and circ, saw right to where you're actually working. Can't do that with a cabinet saw...although the smaller construction type portable tablesaws will certainly be that adaptable.


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I agree with Charles. In my opinion the table saw is the king of the shop. I use sleds and an Incra 1000SE which is more accurate than a lot of miter saws. My suggestion would be to go for the table saw then a good router. I don't use my miter saw that much any more but I'm always using the saw and router. Search YouTube for videos and ideas.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> If you're talking about construction, Ben, as opposed to cabinetry or fine woodworking, I'm going to be the odd man out here.
> No question in my mind that for doing reno's a sliding compound mitre saw (as opposed to a straight chop saw) is far more practical. You just can't handle long lengths on a table saw...who has that kind of real estate around their tablesaw?
> There's not much you can't do with a good quality circ. saw, good blades, and some simple to make jigs, for the ripping and panel cutting that are all part of the process.
> Don't skimp on the blades! Having said that, I picked up a Cdn. Tire house brand thin kerf blade for my SiL's circ. saw and I was blown away by how easily it ripped down 1" thick PT decking material; as fast as I could slide the saw it made the cuts effortlessly!
> ...



I agree! add a Kreg Rip Cut Guide for the circular saw and you are ready to go. https://www.amazon.com/Kreg-KMA2675-Rip-Cut/dp/B007K5HIFS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1476321832&sr=8-1&keywords=kreg+rip+cut+guide


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## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

TABLE SAW. It is the heart of a woodworkers shop. Find an old Delta Contractor saw. Add a T2 or T3 fence when you have more money.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Ben asked: "Down the road, can we get a higher-quality circular saw and mount it to a table?"*
What are you using now? Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's inadequate for the purpose for which it was designed. It might benefit from a tune up, and being adjusted for accuracy, but if it hasn't been dropped or otherwise abused it's probably still got lots of life left in it.
One blade doesn't do everything. You need a 24 tooth blade for ripping and a 40 tooth for fine cuts.
As for mounting it upside down in a table, don't bother. There's tons of past threads here that explain crosscut jigs, not to mention You tube vids explaining the concept. For ripping boards, use the rip fence that saws are designed to accept. There's 3rd party models available if you can't locate the one for your saw.
Plywood Crosscut Guide - Popular Woodworking Magazine
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3e/72/07/3e7207fd576230646b57493d756e3101.jpg
http://www.pennstateind.com/graphics/pps-b.jpg


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hands down...
the table saw is the work horse of the shop..
there are far more cans tan can't w/ a TS...
SCMS at a later date...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

No question, Table Saw comes first. There are many options. If you can't hit the thousand dollar mark, get the Bosch portable table saw. It is the best of the lot, and will serve you well. I finally traded my old contractor saw for a Laguna Fusion 10 inch table saw and I have nothing but the highest praise for it. The thing about a table saw is that you can do just about everything you can with a miter saw, but you can also do much more, Ripping, cutting dados and grooves, cutting angles with great precision, make use of many kinds of jigs that are fairly easy to make, but give you great flexibility and precision. If you get a table saw, spend another $30 for a Wixey digital angle gauge, which will let you set exact blade angles, which is a key to making good stuff. 

If I had it to do over again, I'd use credit to get a good table saw first. It will be the center of your shop. Next comes a router. You can make your miter saw cuts with a decent hand saw, or with a table saw sled (look it up on you tube). The sled will greatly increase the safety of using a table saw, and you should get either model of the Grripper, a gadget that will keep your fingers safe from that spinning saw blade.

There are a number of lower cost saws than the Laguna, and people here seem to like the Grizzley, but there are other brands. I spent a long time considering the Laguna Fusion saw and checked out all the cheaper alternatives and decided the near 2 hp motor running on 115v AC, the conventional power in most homes, and the reputation for really flat tables, the dust collection, the very nice fence, all together was a better choice and that I wouldn't have to trade up. BTW, if you are setting up in the garage, don't forget that most garages have 20 amp circuits (and/or 22v) for the washing machine and an electric dryer. I have a couple of heavy duty machines in my garage that run off those circuits, just using a 2 ft. long 3 socket, 10 gauge extension. Everything remains plugged in but I just don't run the machines and washer/dryer at the same time.

Dust collection is another thing you should consider, but there are lots of threads here on that. Since you are new to some of this, I'll post a separate item, the 17 things that helped me learn to be good at woodworking. Just remember that it occurred over about 10 years and you don't have to do it all at once.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

These are the 17+ things that really helped me get going with woodworking. Hope it helps you as much as they did me. The following has been posted before so those who have read it before may wish to skip it.

1)	If you are using Firefox browser, get a free add on YouTube download helper app. Search for videos on all aspects of woodworking that interest you and collect them. I watch a video on the topic of whatever project, or phase of a project, on which I'm currently working. VERY helpful to see it done a few times before you try it yourself. 

I use a YouTube downloader that’s free using the tools menu/add ons. It puts a download button under the video on YouTube. Click the button, name the file (I always label it according to the tool or job it works on. For example, anything to do with routing, I label as "Router", which clusters all the similar videos together in Windows Explorer. All my videos go into a single folder. I sometimes watch woodworking video while on planes, which triggers some interesting conversations.

2) There are hundreds of used books on woodworking on Amazon. Order some on basic tools and woodworking. You'll need to learn to tune up saws and other tools, and books are how I learned to do these things. It wasn't until I tuned up my saws that good results began to happen. My saws cut exactly 90 and 45, or any angle I need now. Two books I really love are Bill Hylton’s “Woodworking with the Router,” and “The Joint Book” by Terrie Noll. The Noll Book is a really concise and heavily illustrated reference with great hints for making every variety of joints. There are lots of good table saw guides.

3) Make some first projects with MDF or ordinary plywood before using more expensive material. Make the same project several times with improved skill, material and workmanship each time. Great learning method.

4) Consider making cabinets or stands for each of your power tools as first projects. My first cabinet was of MDF and my sander and all my sanding gear still sit on and in it. I can't tell you how much confidence I got from building space efficient shop stands and now, all the tools in my smallish shop are on casters and easily moved around for use and cleanup. Put doors on every cabinet to reduce wandering dust and to master making face frames and doors. BTW, if you add casters, use two non swivels on the back and two locking casters on the front--make sure the lock secures both the wheel rotation and the swivel so your carts don't skip around in use. My shop made stands also take up far less floor space than the spread-legged ones that came with the tools, which makes it far easier to move tools around in a compact shop--which is necessary to clean out the insidious sawdust.

5) Many of the woodworking supply stores in the US (and I imagine overseas) have demos on weekends. Attend and get to know the people you meet there. They can turn you on to sources of wood and you can get some nice help and begin a friendship or two. Don’t forget to talk with the employees as well. At our local Rockler, several of the employees are serious and experienced woodworkers and always eager to help. I’ve also found some of the big box stores employ a few very experienced wood workers, carpenters, electricians and plumbers. You just have to start a brief conversation, if they seem knowledgeable, ask them about what they did before they worked at the store.

6) Among your first purchases should be some form of dust control. Many woods are proven carcinogens and can quickly damage your lungs. Dust collection information is on this site. I had a 4-inch, home made system installed to collect sawdust (see update below), but I also have and recommend a dust mask with a small fan that pulls in pressurized air that not only keeps dust out, but also keeps my glasses from fogging. Got mine at Rockler and I keep a couple of sets of rechargable AA batteries ready to use. 

For cutting just a piece or two, I keep surgical style disposable masks handy. I also built a box with 20x20 filter inside and a fan that pulls air through to remove fine airborne dust over time. You can even tape a filter to the back of a fan in a pinch. Don't take your mask off right after cutting or cleaning up because there is always dust floating around for awhile. If you start coughing, it means you need to pay very close attention to dust control and wearing a mask. It takes months to recover from a bout of working unprotected with MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) without a mask. 

Update: After spending a LOT of money trying to make my own dust collection system work, I bought a 5 inch, 2hp unit from Harbor Freight for about $200. It collects the sawdust in a plastic bag which is easier and far less messy to dispose of. The HF unit was on sale and goes on sale from time to time. I would have been money ahead to have bought it in the first place. There are many dust collection machines out there and I wouldn’t go the home made route again. Not sure what I’ll do with all that old gear but am likely to make a new ceiling mounted filter box with greater air flow with one of the blowers. The purpose of that is to draw shop air through and remove fine dust particles over time. Will put a timer switch on it so I can walk away while it scrubs the air. 

Chop and miter saws of all types are usually the worst sawdust scattering offender in the shop. My solution was to use a clear plastic shower curtain that wraps around the saw and catches most of the sawdust that drops down into a collection box. Don’t force this kind of saw since that seems to make the scatter even worse.

I use my dust collection system to clean up the floor. It has one 4 inch flex hose that moves from tool to tool. My router fence has a 2.5 inch port behind the bit, on the fence. There is also a 4 inch port on the box that contains the router under the table. You can find an adapter that has a Y shape, one arm attaches to the 4 inch collector hose, the other connector goes to the fence port. It helps a lot. The problem with sawdust on the router table is that it lifts the workpiece up slightly so your cuts will go off. You must sweep this away frequently, so keep a wide brush handy. 

7) Take your sweet time with projects, there's no rush and it is easy to have a project nearly complete, then make a careless, quick cut or other error that ruins all your good work. In most cases, it is best to fit pieces by putting them in place and marking rather than just measuring and cutting. Cut a bit over and shave the piece down (or use a good block plane) for an exact fit. A good block plane, nice and sharp, is a basic tool you'll use more often than you think.

8) Buy the very best table saw you can manage. It will quickly become the most used tool in your shop. A little debt could move you up a notch and help you produce better results and cut thicker wood. Get the best tools you can afford. Read the reviews and ask questions on the forum before you choose. To me, it is worth it to use credit if necessary to move up the quality scale for the table saw. 

There are models called hybrid saws that have the mechanical works attached to the cabinet rather than the top, which is good. I recently replaced my old contractor saw with a Laguna Fusion saw. My shop is not wired for 220, so I was happy with the 110volt, 1 3/4 hp motor. Many forum members have been very happy with less expensive models, Grizzly for example, but I prefer the Laguna for its amazingly flat table and extensions and its fit and finish (and reasonable price). Learn to set up and tune up your saws and tools (books and videos show you how) because you can’t make anything great if your tools are even slightly off. Many people prefer the Saw Stop because it all but eliminates the risk of cutting off a digit, but you’ll pay about twice the price of otherwise equal saws.

The best safety device is paying very close attention to what you’re doing with a saw, but a close second is a MicroJig Gripper, which lets you control wood on the saw while keeping your fingers safely away from the blade. There is a fancy and a simpler model, either of which is good.

9) If you can, get an electrician to add a 220 outlet or two to your shop. If you set up in the garage, you may be able to use the electrical outlet for the dryer. There are many tools that require 220 volts to work best, and many used 220 v tools are available at really good prices--if you feel comfortable buying used. Another tool source is to visit estate sales. Every once in awhile, you find tools no one else in the family desires or knows the value of, so you can get them cheap.

If you don't have a router yet, I have come to like the Triton TRA001, which is perfect for table use, particularly since you can adjust height quite precisely from the above the table with its built in lift. That feature really saves my knees. However, it is just too heavy for this old guy to control freehand. I really like the Bosch 1617 EVSPK for hand held use. There is a newer model that has a light and switch on the handle that costs more. Both come in a kit with fixed and plunge base. Bosch has many accessories available that are very well made. Others like different brands, but Mike recently checked in on the topic and compared PorterCable plus other brands and I thought the Bosch came out ahead. I prefer the raising and lowering mechanism on the Bosch with its precise micro adjustment knob. The Bosch fixed base can be used as a lift in a table. The books on routers and other topics are really useful for understanding some of the arcane woodworking terms associated with this must have tool..

10) When it comes to router bits, try to stick to the half inch shafts with carbide cutting tips. These are astonishingly sharp. Bosch and Freud are easily available at HD and Lowes, but there are lots of other excellent brands including the well liked Whiteside and Sommerfield bits. Be careful of those ultra sharp tips, which are fragile. I'd suggest storing them in one of those foam lined cases you can get pretty cheap from Harbor Freight, loosely packed so they don't click together. A few of the cheap bits don’t have carbide tips. Spiral bits are sometimes used to cut grooves. Carbide spiral bits are both expensive and fragile and it takes very little abuse to ruin them. Many use high speed steel bits for that purpose.

I buy bits as I need them and don't much care for kits. However, someone recently suggested getting a kit to start out with, then gradually replacing only the bits you actually use with top grade bits. This makes some sense to me, but stick to the half inch shafts if you can manage it--most kits I’ve seen have 1/4 inch shafts. I would avoid huge sets with odd bits you are unlikely ever to use. A few standard bits most of us have are the round over bits. You can get them in different sizes, but mostly you’re likely to use the quarter, half and ¾ sizes. Another bit that is very useful for cabinetry is the half inch rabbiting bit with a bearing. Some come with a changable bearing that allows you to change the depth of the rabbit. Doing fancier stuff makes those cash register numbers spin because door bit sets for example, are pricey! 

One more thing about using bits, don’t try to take off too much wood in one pass. Make several passes taking a little more wood with each pass. Pay attention to the grain of the wood (that is covered in most books on routing) with a final pass just shaving and making for a very smooth finish. My personal rule is to cut no more than 1/8 th of an inch per pass. The larger the bit, the slower you should set the speed control. 

11) The most useful item I own for my saws is a Wixey digital angle gauge, which allows me to set up all my saws to exact angles (eg: 90 degrees to the table). It wasn't until I started being meticulous about this that my projects started working out right. These are about $30 on Amazon.

I have a Bosch 10 inch compound sliding miter saw that I also love, but use it mainly for cross cutting long pieces, but its ability to cut at precise angles is wonderful. 

12) Pocket Hole jig and construction. Although there are many ways to make cabinets and face frames, I have found that pocket hole screws have really made making them easier. Just remember, coarse threads for soft woods, fine thread for hard woods, and I find the square head easier to drive correctly than the Phillips type. My jig is mounted on a chunk of plywood that I can clamp down. The thing makes a lot of sawdust so dust collection is a good idea. I also find that with careful, exact 90 degree end cuts to the wood, the pocket hole approach produces absolutely square cabinets and face frames. You’ll need a couple of face clamps and a Kreg right angle clamp if you use pocket hole joinery. There are many helpful videos on this jig and it is not very expensive as tools go.

13) Make a table saw sled (lots of YouTube videos on how to) for perfect 90 degree cuts on your table saw. I had a little more money than time, so I bought the sled Rockler makes that has a swinging fence and a very precise angle scale. I love that thing and set up a special shelf right next to my table saw to store it and keep it flat. Cross cuts on the sled are wonderfully exact and it prevents most tear out, the ragged or splintered area at the end of a cut. The sled is also a much safer way to cut short pieces as well. You set the sled to a precise 90 or 45 angle using a drafting square. 

Most saws come with a miter gauge, but I prefer one of the precision gauges. I have an Osborne gauge I really like, but many here like Incra’s gauge. Precision is important with gauges.

You will read a LOT about jigs here and in your books and videos. Jigs, accurate T squares, a good straightedge are all incredibly useful for producing good work. The more I venture into really good hard wood construction, the more I appreciate how jigs produce accurate results without wasting expensive wood through mis-cuts.

14) I had a lot of problems with tear out at first, but most of that stopped when I started using a sacrificial backup block to push the last bit of a piece through the router. I often use square pieces of MDF (medium density fiberboard) because it is cheap and stays flat. When it gets torn up, I just cut off a chunk and use what’s left. Really helps! You can do the same with any piece by putting a backer board behind where the cut goes--you cut through the piece first, the backer last. You may also want to use feather boards to hold boards in correct alignment to the fence and blade or bit.

Zero Clearance Inserts for the table saw: On the table saw, buy or make blank inserts to make zero clearance inserts (see YouTube for how to do it), this really helps make great, tear-out free cuts. I also found that I wanted to push that last quarter inch through the bit too fast, now I feed at a steady pace all through the cut. 

15) Clamps: The joke is you can never have too many clamps. The ones I use most are about $3 each at Harbor Freight, about 9 inch F clamps (they look like an F). I have 18 of them at a couple of bucks each. The same source has longer versions up to 24 inches and I keep 4 to 6 of the 18 and 24 inch models. I have four sets of two of 24 to 60 inch (Jet) parallel clamps for making really square cabinets and other items where holding things square for glue up is important. The better the quality of bar clamps, the thicker and stronger the bar will be. I’ve all but given up on plastic clamps, but have a few that look like scissors for lightly holding things together or down. Depending on what you’re making, a few wooden hand screw clamps could be useful, including holding small parts for safer routing. I recently added a couple of special steel C clamps that have a 12 inch open throat. Very handy item! 

16) Hand planes and hand tools: Learning to use these is something of an art, as is proper sharpening and setting of their blades. There are lots of woodworkers who really love working with hand tools, most will suggest you buy used and clean and tune them up--which is actually quite fun. I prefer just to buy new and really like the Wood River V3 brand for its quality and acceptable price. 

Chisels are important particularly if you are making furniture. Sharpening chisels is a basic skill involving many ultra fine grits of sandpaper, ultra flat surfaces, maybe diamond grit sharpening stones—arcane stuff, but anything less than a razor sharp chisel is pretty useless. Don’t scrimp on chisels, cheap ones get dull fast. Look up sharpening methods on YouTube, it takes patience but not much money to work sharp. I recently bought a diamond sharpening device with diamond dust imbedded in a nickel steel plate. It has small cut out ovals so the metal grit doesn't clog the diamond surface. Use these sparingly and use one of the specialty diamond sharpening lubricants with it. I use this for quick sharpening touch ups, just 4-5 strokes will do. It’s a little easier to use than the sand paper method, which I save for major sharpening tasks. The most important thing is to flatten the back of the first inch or two of the chisel. Unless that is flat, you can’t sharpen a chisel or plane blade (iron) accurately.

The one plane every shop should have is a small block plane. These have so many uses that’s it is hard to list them all, but they are really great for trimming up ends of workpieces, quickly rounding over edges without having to set up a router, fine fitting the length of a board. New ones can be had in decent quality for about $100 bucks and up. All planes require being tuned up before they are any good. You can look this process up on Youtube. Cheap block planes are passable if you really work them over first, but most won’t hold an edge very well and some are not milled accurately and will never cut right.


17) If you have a dedicated shop space, take the time and trouble to insulate it. You will enjoy working in it much more if you're not roasting or freezing. I recently installed a middle sized window AC unit through a shop shed wall for relief from our desert summer and it is now even more of a pleasure to be out there. Insulation also holds in heat during winter. A couple of heaters bring the temp up, but just one keeps it comfortable after that. Cold fingers are clumsy, not good around spinning blades!

Finally, Stick suggests that you use the Forum’s archives when you have questions. There is a wealth of answers to any questions you might have. He also cautions about using one word search terms, which can return massive amounts of information. Here’s the link: https://archive.org/

Woodworking is not necessarily a cheap hobby. Wood can be costly, so are decent tools, And there's hardware, stuff for jigs, dust collection and on and on as you get going. My good wood supplier is 60 miles away, so I often work in decent local pine and plywood with as many layers as I can find. I found some decent plywood at HD. Before long you will hear how superior Baltic Birch is to the best of HD ply, but you have to ferret out a decent source. Chinese made birch ply is generally no match for the real stuff, which, when you cut it shows no voids inside. To me the 60 miles is a small price to pay to work with the good ply.

This has run pretty long, but I think the information is helpful for someone new to the hobby. The suggestions represent a LOT of trial and error. And yes, you can spend a lot getting set up, but most of us built up our shop and tools over time, nearly a decade for me. Beside that, my wife likes me being around, but busy out in the shop.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

To add a bit to what Dan posted, I often use a circ saw and a cutting guide similar to what is shown in his first link to break sheets of ply and particularly mdf down to sizes I can physically handle. I used to be able to throw those sheets on my table saw but those days are a memory for the most part. It's not that I can't do them on my saw, I use roller stands on the infeed side to support the sheets and I have an outfeed table attached to the saw that is about 3 1/2' feet long and soon to be 4' at least so that I don't have a problem with holding the sheets down so they don't tip up after they've gone through the saw. That all takes up a lot of real estate in the shop but I'm blessed with a pretty good size one so it works for me. These are all things that you have to consider.

By the way, there is a general rule in machining just about anything. If the work piece is large then you are usually better off to take the tool to the work and if the piece is small you are usually better off to take the work to the tool. In breaking down sheet goods that means you are usually better off to throw the sheet on a couple of sawhorses and use a circ saw and cutting guide if your TS is on the small side and no infeed and outfeed assists.

A circ saw and guide will do a pretty good job under 2 conditions. You need a good blade and you need the blade and the sole of the saw to be parallel. The one I use wasn't and was making horrible cuts until I trued it up.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

I might go down a little different path, bandsaw, miter saw, table saw. 

My first few projects were built with a circular saw, jig saw, router, and a bunch of hand tool work, and my shop was the front porch. My table saw came a few years later when we moved to a house that had room for one, and the mitersaw and bandsaw after that.




Popular woodworking magazine had a nice series Little Shop Mark II | ShopWoodworking that showed how to make a small tablesaw centered shop, and the order to acquire the tools. It might be worth a look.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm gonna go with Dan and Charles...

There is a fundamental difference between "working with wood" and "woodworking"...It sounds like your current needs are DIY, home projects, yard projects, etc... You are likely to need some trim and molding work, maybe some fencing, railings, window trim, replacing a stair tread or two, adding some trim where there isn't any, maybe replacing kickboards, etc... You are likely to be using dimensional lumber and purchased trim/molding from the big box stores... Maybe some shelving in closets, hanging a new closet pole, putting another shelf above the one in the closet, adding a small peninsula in your kitchen, a half wall here and there...

It doesn't sound like you will be making cabinets, boxes, reclaiming wood, resawing, making your own custom molding/trim, cutting your own profiles, making chests, making coffee tables, building chairs, making a rocker, etc... All things that will require accurate cutting, fine and straight long cuts for joining, etc...

All the items in the first bunch can be done with circular saw and/or miter saw. The table saw will require a lot of real estate...which you are not likely to have in your one-car garage. You will not be able to cut 1 1/2 feet off a 16 ft decking board to top a railing with a table saw and sled. You will need a miter saw or a circular and guide.

I will suggest you buy a 10" lightweight miter saw to be able to haul it around...make sure you have good sharp blades for your circular saw (24 and 40 tooth)...a few 6" clamps (HF) to give you another set of hands...some straight edges (made or purchased) to help you cut down 4x8 sheets with your circ saw... Go to Lowes and buy a 12" speed square to help you cut straight 90's when you don't need the miter saw...buy a cheap 10" miter saw for angles and bevels (crosscuts) and get one of those Empire bevel gauge to copy angles (you'll find few 90deg angles in your house) to add trim in your corners...don't forget a good carpenter's square...

When I'm doing home type projects the circ saw and speed square are my closest friends...and lightest...develop good techniques with each and you will be happy...



I have a couple of job site table saws and unless I'm ripping down many long boards it usually sits in the back of the truck and my Milwaukee circ saw, edge guides and clamps do all the work...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

bdbailey said:


> *Down the road, can we get a higher-quality circular saw and mount it to a table? Also, is it fine to buy these power tools used?*



Circular saw mounted upside down under a table is not a good idea...very limiting and not worth the effort...lots of alignment and little cutting height. A job-site table saw could be in your future and for most projects around the house will not cost much more than buying a good circular saw. When you're finally ready to buy a good table saw, don't discount a good job-site saw such as the Bosch 4100. When you're ready to dedicate a two-car garage for your woodworking projects, invest in the best stationary table saw you can afford.

As for used tools...hit and miss. You should know your tools well enough to evaluate what you're buying. For example, if a carpenter is retiring and he's selling all his tools you are likely to get a good tool. If somebody is selling a one-off, old, metal body circ saw that was handed down from one of the older uncles...you get the idea.

Hand tools that don't have electric motors in them are a good buy used. Framing squares could be an exception...they might not be square but that that can be taken care of easily. Tile cutters need a good looking over before buying used. In any event, make sure you can see and feel any used tools you buy...later on when you get more experience, buying used on line (ebay) could yield some good tools. I like to feel 'em in my hands...if they're comfortable, I go for it.

Visit garage sales even if you're not buying...it'll give you an idea what you can run into when you're ready to buy...it's a fun day anyway...

Good luck...stay in touch with your progress...


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

Learn to use a speed square with your circular saw. With this tool you can accomplish most of what a miter saw can do (and more). 
How to Use a Speed Square ? Skill Builder | Make:

I did buy a miter 10" Ryobi saw before buying a dewalt DW745 table saw. Mainly because it was half the price and I needed it for help with making a fence. I thought it would be easier to make lots of cuts. Now after having done hundreds of fences I reach for my speed square and leave the miter saw in the truck.

In addition to mastering a speed square I recommend the job site table saws. I have the least expensive Dewalt version and it works great. The fence on this is rack & pinion - this means it is supported on both ends so no deflection (at least to the accuracy of a contractor job site saw) 

I've built Van **** fences 




Crosscut sled as mentioned before. 




 - Paulk is a master craftsman, here makes a good simple sled.




 - Ramsey is fun to watch and speaks more to DIY woodworkers. The alum channel is overkill for the precision of this sled.

I'm a professional handyman so I fit more into the 'working with wood' category rather than 'woodworking'. Though I do spend some evenings and weekends woodworking. I actually enjoy making jigs and shop related projects more than finished woodworking pieces. This is probably because I enjoy 'figuring it out' way more than applying finish.


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Without question a table saw. I often joke with people that I don't know how they can live without one but it's the truth. Look on Craigslist for a used one. Be sure that you get one with at least a 1 hp motor and be sure that the motor is separate from the saw and make sure that it is a cast iron saw, you want something solid that doesn't move around on you. You should be able to pick up an older Craftsman that meets all these things for about $100 dollars. The newer saws, even the better grade saws are still not as good as the older Craftsman. The new saws may have a better fence but that's about it. My back up saw is a Craftsman that I got in the 70's an it has never failed me.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

get a Bosch 4100 and move to the head of the class...


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## bdbailey (Oct 5, 2016)

Thanks, everyone! Sounds like a table saw is the reigning champion. Now I need to do a lot of research on exact models and seeing what we can budget. If the saws are too expensive, we may focus more on smaller tools/hand tools until we can afford the table saw.
@RainMan 2.0 I'll definitely look that fence up! Thanks!!
@Jerry Bowen OK. So, don't buy a cheaper saw, mounting a circular saw isn't worth it. What about just using a circular saw on a nice table with guides/jigs? OK, that sounds really wise. I want to get the garage clean and setup with some basic tools, build a tool cabinet, woodworking table, bicycle rack. Maybe I can practice with other people on a table saw and get the basics down first. Thanks!
@JOAT OK, thanks!
@Cherryville Chuck Wow... $2,794.00. That level is out of our budget for now. OK, thanks! A miter saw looks fast and useful, but learning to use a table saw will be more useful for me in the long run and is more versatile. OK, awesome! Thanks! And thanks for the advice on the circular saw vs. TS. For now I think I'll use our old circular saw, learn more, build guides/jigs, and we'll look into a jobsite/small table saw.. Thanks!
@DaninVan OK, awesome! I'll have to look into that option, too! Especially as table saws seem to be extremely expensive. A couple metal/wooden sawhorses, some guides, quality blades, and I'd be good to go. We have a 7 1/4 SKILSaw 1980-1. The blades are rusty and the saw hasn't been used for years, but we can buy fresh blades and I can wipe down this saw. Thanks for the links!!
@Shop guy Thanks! I will definitely want to look up tutorials when I get a table saw. We have a used router (Makita 3612BR plunge router) I bought at the local market that I am working on fixing up and finding bits for.
@Marco Nice, thanks! We'll buy that. Definitely planning on going with using our circular saw for now, building jigs and guides, getting us some real sawhorses, and getting a better understanding of woodworking. If/when we can afford a table saw, we may get one. Can't appreciate what you don't earn.
@coxhaus OK, thanks! Maybe I can let a few friends know we are looking out for one in case someone retires theirs.
@Stick486 Thanks so much! Bosch 4100? OK, noted!
@DesertRatTom Thanks!! The "Bosch 4100-09 10-Inch Worksite Table Saw with Gravity-Rise Stand" or the "Bosch GTS1031 10-Inch Portable Jobsite Table Saw"? The Laguna Fusion looks very nice. I don't believe we have that type of outlet in our garage. Can I do most of my cutting with a circular saw, using jigs and guides? Then in a couple years, once the workshop is otherwise setup and prepared, and I have a lot more experience under my belt, we can invest in the table saw? Thank you for your 17 pieces of advice! I have read that section from your kind post in another thread. Thanks!
@kp91 Inspiring and exciting. I like starting with fewer tools and building up. Otherwise, how will I understand what I'm doing or appreciate the expensive tools? Thanks for the link on setting up a workshop!
@Nickp Thanks! Right. My current projects are preparing the garage to be a workshop, building a single shelf, bike racks, and then small boxes, etc. For now I will be using wood from Lowes but would love to use untreated wood I dry myself over a number of seasons. We do have a 2-car garage, but there is a lot of junk in there. So, yeah. Not much space, sadly. OK, thanks, good list! OK. I'll work on learning the circular saw and making/using guides. Down the line that Bosch or the Dewalt doppelganger may be in our budget. I've picked up a Makita 3612br plunge router at a local market. Since I don't know much yet, I was basically buying blind. I looked online and found it was a good model. Router for $30 and the metal table for $10. But the plunging gets stuck so we're going to buy new springs and I'm going to oil it down, and all the base guides are gone. Of course, I didn't know to look for these things when buying - but I'm learning.
@Everend Speed square - cool, thanks! The "DEWALT DW745 10-Inch Compact Job-Site Table Saw"?
I understand. I really enjoy making tools - encountering problems, finding solutions that either are not invented or are normally too expensive.
@mgmine Wow! $100 is something we could afford. I'll have to see if we can find one that fits those requirements.

Once again, thank you everyone for your wonderful advice!!!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I would keep an eye out for a used table saw if your not in a hurry . May get a better quality unit than you will buying new if your budgets not great .
I bought a cabinet saw from General , but if I could do it all over again I'd go with a cabinet saw model from SawStop . What price can you put on your fingers ? 
I also like there overhead dust extraction hood. I bought there hood and at some point will be trying to me it to fit mine .


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

* So, don't buy a cheaper saw, mounting a circular saw isn't worth it. What about just using a circular saw on a nice table with guides/jigs?*
Milwaukee and Bosch circular saws rule... Bosch jigsaws dominate...
clamp on guides are your friend...
PRO-Grip Straight Edge Clamps

*A couple metal/wooden sawhorses, *
please no metal... at some point in time there is a chance things won't go well...
google wood ones and build your own to suit you..
make a cut table... there are zillion kinds/types/sizes...
google for more...
see PDF

*Bosch 4100? OK, noted!*
that saw is seriously looked down on and sold short....
the saw as is is unreal... 
Bosch as a company is one of the more outstanding ones and there products are meant for a life time...
Factory Reconditioned Bosch 4100-RT 10 in. Worksite Table Saw
build it into a table... there bazillion plans out there for these too...
.









*But the plunging gets stuck so we're going to buy new springs and I'm going to oil it down,*
clean the rails/guide bars and wax them or use dry lube like Tri-flow on them...
*DO NOT* use oil of any kind.. it only makes problems...
and WD40 can become your worst enemy...
*
I'll have to see if we can find one that fits those requirements.*
I have zero faith in crapsman...
just don't do it...

*quality blades/bits,*
I am really partial to Freud as are many here are...
please stay away from asian manufacture... you'll thank you in the long run...
see the PDFs...



*WHY BOSCH..*.

2nd to none CS and support that's absolutely painless...
They respect us, the consumer...
tools that are real work horses...
they last a very long time...
they protect my bottom line...

I think/believe Bosch to be an outstanding company... they seem to always man up to any found problems in a heartbeat... quite unlike most of the other tool manufactures/companies...
I just had a problem with two of their 1617 routers... a really old abused one and and a new one out of the box.. (it sounded terrible - gravely).... only took a day and all is well even with the old one and I never had to leave the shop.....

I have a lot of their tools...and I mean a lot... I started using Bosch in the late 70's... since then, they've have proven themselves dependable and have yet to let me down... Bosch has come through, within reason, to my benefit...
less down time, less hassles, less additional monies spent, longevity... 
planned obsolesce isn't an issue and a lot less all around grief... 
they have proven to me that they have the most cost effective track record w/ any of their products over and over again...

if you don't mind mediocre and disposable along with the associated trials and tribulations.... buy "other" I'll stay with Bosch... I've learned my lessons...


.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@bdbailey..

Rainman said... but if I could do it all over again I'd go with a cabinet saw model from SawStop ...

search here for the saw stop threads...
just saying...


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

Stick486 said:


> @bdbailey..
> 
> Rainman said... but if I could do it all over again I'd go with a cabinet saw model from SawStop ...
> 
> ...


If you are considering a Sawstop, please look into the Bosch REAXX 15-Amp 10-in Table Saw.It has a (Better?) instant stop function that requires only the change of a cartridge, not replacement of the entire blade assembly.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Ben; thank _you_ for responding to all the members! We don't often agree with each other, but we're a great community and we love it when new members jump right in.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Sounds like this string helped you work out your buying sequence.


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> We don't often agree with each other,


Yes we do, we always agree!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

mftha said:


> If you are considering a Sawstop, please look into the Bosch REAXX 15-Amp 10-in Table Saw.It has a (Better?) instant stop function that requires only the change of a cartridge, not replacement of the entire blade assembly.


I like Bosches system better , but as of yet I haven't seen one in a cabinet saw that they've built ?


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## Everend (Mar 15, 2013)

https://youtu.be/kXyHR-1x-So


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Work in Progress*



RainMan 2.0 said:


> I like Bosches system better , but as of yet I haven't seen one in a cabinet saw that they've built ?


No problem, Rick; it'll be on the market by the time your garage is insulated and drywalled...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Everend said:


> Yes we do, we always agree!



...even if it's only to agree to disagree...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> No problem, Rick; it'll be on the market by the time your garage is insulated and drywalled...


ya beat me yo it..


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I like Bosches system better , but as of yet I haven't seen one in a cabinet saw that they've built ?


If you believe the SawStop web page it is because Bosch is preoccupied with making dishwashers!>

(full disclosure: my diswasher is Bosch. it is as good as the Bosch Router I own)


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> No problem, Rick; it'll be on the market by the time your garage is insulated and drywalled...


This is new and refreshing , almost unexpected :lol:


Well I'm definitely going with osb on the walls instead of drywall , as drywall has risen 256% because of some new tariff that was recently put on it


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

And GM makes locomotives. 
Mr. Sawstop is unfamiliar with multitasking?
In his defence, Samsung also makes TVs...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Ben if you use that Skil for breaking full sheets down then build yourself a cutting guide to go with it but also check to make sure that the blade and sole plate are parallel to each other. I have an old black and gold Skil Classic that I used and it was giving me horrible cuts until I trued it up. It was a sixteenth out from front to rear of the blade. Now that it`s true and with a good 40 tooth blade on it it gives very good cuts.

One thing I`ll suggest that you`ll need for tools is a caliper. It doesn`t need to be an expensive one, it can be as cheap as $5. My favorite is one for under $30 that is stainless steel and reads in fractions of inches that I got from Lee Valley. With it you can measure the saw to see if there is an offset in the blade or set a table saw too. Lots of uses for a caliper. In fact I`m thinking maybe I should start a thread.

If you aren`t sure how to go about truing the saw up then send me a pm and I will take pictures of mine to show what I did and walk you through how to do it.


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## TomE (Dec 17, 2010)

Radial arm saw


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

Not sure in West Virginia you live but here is a Craigslist ad for just what I was talking about.
table saw

There are Craftsman saws starting at $50 dollars depending on where you live. Be sure to get one with a separate motor and not a motorized one!


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## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

There are Craftsman saws starting at $50 dollars depending on where you live. Be sure to get one with a separate motor and not a motorized one![/QUOTE]

I got an older Craftsman 113 model just that way. Came from an estate sale. The elderly owner had it all set and tuned up with a 2424 fence. Cancelled my $1500 Grizz order and paid under $300 for this. 10 miles from the house. No regrets. But like mgmine said - get an older one with an external belt driven motor. The newer ones are garbage.

HJ


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## mgmine (Jan 16, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> There are Craftsman saws starting at $50 dollars depending on where you live. Be sure to get one with a separate motor and not a motorized one!


I got an older Craftsman 113 model just that way. Came from an estate sale. The elderly owner had it all set and tuned up with a 2424 fence. Cancelled my $1500 Grizz order and paid under $300 for this. 10 miles from the house. No regrets. But like mgmine said - get an older one with an external belt driven motor. The newer ones are garbage.

HJ[/QUOTE]

I use mine for a back up saw or just to keep the dado blade on. The top is actually bigger then my Unisaw. Mine has the original fence on it and it actually is accurate.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

RainMan 2.0 said:


> I like Bosches system better , but as of yet I haven't seen one in a cabinet saw that they've built ?


 @RainMan 2.0 I bet Bosch is working on licensing the system to other manufacturers. The Saw Stop system not only requires changing the cartridge, but it wrecks the blade, so if you have a decent blade, you're going to have a $120-150 bill. The Bosch system doesn't wreck the blade.

If you are cutting wet wood, you have to turn the Saw Stop system off, because it is possible that the moisture in wood could fire off the system. I do outdoor projects in redwood from time to time and if I forgot, BANG! there goes a wad of dough. 

I doubt Bosch wants to get into the table saw business. I hope Laguna is negotiating for the system, and I'd expect that several other makers would like to license it as well. Licensing is likely far more profitable than manufacturing for Bosch, unless they buy someone out, or subcontract. Whatever they do, I hope SawStop eats it, because they have been combative and litigious about what is a really good idea. But you can't patent an idea, only a device or a method, and touch screen technology and flesh sensitng technology is pretty old stuff by now and off patent. I suspect the basic Saw Stop patents are close to running out, which further frees Bosch to license or manufacture.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

DesertRatTom said:


> @RainMan 2.0 Whatever they do, I hope SawStop eats it, because they have been combative and litigious about what is a really good idea. But you can't patent an idea, only a device or a method, and touch screen technology and flesh sensitng technology is pretty old stuff by now and off patent. I suspect the basic Saw Stop patents are close to running out, which further frees Bosch to license or manufacture.


The first time I remember seeing touch technology was on elevator buttons and that was decades ago. That's part of what makes Sawstop's litigation efforts so curious. They didn't even come close to developing touch technology so really all they have a right to patent is the clamping system that wrecks your blade. Since Bosch's system retracts the blade instead they are easily dissimilar enough not to infringe on each other. I don't see the litigation as having a hope-in-hell of winning but maybe Sawstop is just trying to slow Bosch down.


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