# Plunge Router with least amount of deflection



## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Guys I have a makita plunge router and I have made mistakes before as the router had moved a tiny bit while plunging in some areas creating small imperfections on the sides .
Is there a proven router out there that doesn't do this? I have a pc690 also and somewhere there is a base that you can change out to plunge but I've never used it free hand as it's mounted to my TS so I don't know if PC is an improvement . 

Is there a particular brand or model you guys favour. Thanks in advance

I just had a thought , maybe your not supposed to use your router perpendicular to the material?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Guys I have a makita plunge router and I have made mistakes before as the router had moved a tiny bit while plunging in some areas creating small imperfections on the sides .
> Is there a proven router out there that doesn't do this? I have a pc690 also and somewhere there is a base that you can change out to plunge but I've never used it free hand as it's mounted to my TS so I don't know if PC is an improvement .
> 
> Is there a particular brand or model you guys favour. Thanks in advance
> ...


Bosch for me..
and yes, perpendicular is a suppose to...

is the router moving in the base as you plunge because it is loose or are you moving the router it's self... are you using a guide???


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Yes it happens when your following a guide . I would be scared to cut the excess material from a counter top as it moves a tiny bit side to side in its base . Maybe they all do a little but I suspect there's a better brand .
Was debating to give it away and try a new PC model


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes it happens when your following a guide . I would be scared to cut the excess material from a counter top as i*t moves a tiny bit side to side in its base* . Maybe they all do a little but I suspect there's a better brand .
> Was debating to give it away and try a new PC model


My 1617 nor 1619 Bosch(s) don't do that... not even the Colt...
My PC does...

Maybe there is a fix for your Makita...
I believe the the castings on the PC leave a lot to be desired..
One other thing... Because of the casting the PC motor isn't concentric to the base... 
drove me nuts till I figured out the issues.... 
the baseless motor is now in a router lift/table.....

My take is that Bosch machines their motor housings and bases to fit as where PC puts their's to use as is hot from the mold w/o any machining...
smoothness of movement and no binding is very apparent in the two because of this.....
Also... I have found that Bosch outlasts PC by a wide margin... Both used at production level...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Yes it happens when your following a guide . I would be scared to cut the excess material from a counter top as it moves a tiny bit side to side in its base . Maybe they all do a little but I suspect there's a better brand .
> Was debating to give it away and try a new PC model


How much/deep are you plunging in one take???
too much at a time is not a good thing...


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick I'll check out Bosch . Thanks for your input as it's always appreciated


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick which Bosch would you recommend today ? I want one that fits router guides in the base plate to

Update : 
The 1617 and 1619 are getting great reviews and seem to be the top routers .only complaint with the 1619 was operating the lock down lever with left thumb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Stick which Bosch would you recommend today ? I want one that fits router guides in the base plate to
> 
> Update :
> The 1617 and 1619 are getting great reviews and seem to be the top routers .only complaint with the 1619 was operating the lock down lever with left thumb


what are you cutting and how much of it???


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Stick486 said:


> what are you cutting and how much of it???


Was going to make a computer desk and coffee and end tables at some point in time . No heavy production but I really prefer quality tools if I know what to buy


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

RainMan1 said:


> Was going to make a computer desk and coffee and end tables at some point in time . No heavy production but I really prefer quality tools if I know what to buy


the 17 it is...
the 17 is a real work horse...
but..
look to the 23... 
it has some really nice features...
I've read the complaints and after using it for some time (brutally) I think the complaints, for the most part, are operator failure and their failure to RTFM....

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=MRC23EVSK


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd guess the big Festool plunge is the tighest.
I know the DW 625, then the DW 621 the the DW 6182, in that order are tight within a few thousandths. Milwaukee is >acceptable. Makita one of the sloppiest.
All of them, if the depth changes are extreme (>1/4"/pass), will squiggle.
Strategy for scuff free walls: 
Use cutters < the excavational width.
Plunge in the middle of that excavation, staying away from the walls.
Whence the middle of the road north/south excursion is complete, head for the walls.
Now with far <1 (cutter) diameter doing the cutting, there will be no cutter or plunger deflections.
Router Stategies


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Festool , that's a name I've never heard till today . I should research them to .
Of course there's nothing available in Bosch in this one horse town I live in so it's amazon.ca 

Here's one comment on the Bosch 23. Seems as though some people are having good luck with it and others not. Maybe Bosch has addressed the issue or they just had a bad run? 



> Everything about this router kit is top notch but for one thing. Other reviewers here and elsewhere have mentioned that the plunging mechanism of the plunge base is not smooth. I think that characterization is kind. The action is difficult to the degree that you risk marring the work piece or bind unsafe. I suggest Bosch take a look at Triton's design in which the handle operates a geared mechanism to slowly and accurately plunge the router head. BTW, I bought the dust collection kit for this router system (Bosch RA1177AT) and it works great.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Well you get what you pay for . This ones over $500 and only accepts 1/4 bits if I'm reading it right . Love the dust extraction idea though 
http://www.amazon.ca/Festool-574339...qid=1400878475&sr=8-1&keywords=Festool+router

And there one 2200 model for $1254!


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Rick what you are saying does not happen with any router, there is no deflection due to the fact that the router is a plunger router, Bosch, Makita, Festool Elu, whatever, as it does not matter as there is no deflection due to the brand, what is happening is that you are moving the router off what ever guide you are using be it a router fence or a fence on the router or a bearing on the cutter, and/or you are letting the router rise up a little, I like the features of plunger routers, I have a few of them, but I always lock the router down before I do the cut, if you are running mouldings then only go down part of the way and then lock it off and then do the cut, if you are doing a large cut then you can do that again as the final cut should be more like a clean up cut and as long as you don't let it rise up or move away from the fence then there will be no deflection. Makita are fine Routers and what you are suggesting is user error. N


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

neville9999 said:


> Rick what you are saying does not happen with any router, there is no deflection due to the fact that the router is a plunger router, Bosch, Makita, Festool Elu, whatever, as it does not matter as there is no deflection due to the brand, what is happening is that you are moving the router off what ever guide you are using be it a router fence or a fence on the router or a bearing on the cutter, and/or you are letting the router rise up a little, I like the features of plunger routers, I have a few of them, but I always lock the router down before I do the cut, if you are running mouldings then only go down part of the way and then lock it off and then do the cut, if you are doing a large cut then you can do that again as the final cut should be more like a clean up cut and as long as you don't let it rise up or move away from the fence then there will be no deflection. Makita are fine Routers and what you are suggesting is user error. N


Dang it Neville , I'm trying to keep the economy running here ! 

On a serious note , I have had issues with that round off bit (the one that flushes whatever your following with the bearing on the end) as I get these small round dents where somehow it moved into the material . I suspect your right , it's user error
Luckily they haven't passed a law yet in BC that says you can't have to many routers


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I have to say dust extraction on a plunge router would be just to nice ! (Although I suspect lots gets away)


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I've had many routers since 1974 and the worst for play in the pillars was the Bosch GOF-1300-ACE, with this one in the table I had to shim it slightly forward so that pressure of the wood forced it vertical. Without doubt my current main router the Makita RP2301FC which uses linear bearings is the best. It also has a quite efficient dust collection system.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> I've had many routers since 1974 and the worst for play in the pillars was the Bosch GOF-1300-ACE, with this one in the table I had to shim it slightly forward so that pressure of the wood forced it vertical. Without doubt my current main router the Makita RP2301FC which uses linear bearings is the best. It also has a quite efficient dust collection system.


Well makita routers are readily available here . My makita routers are at least 14 years old so I have no idea whether they used linear bearings back then. Would have to post a pic

Looking at your pic , you mean to tell me they have freaking lasers on them now ! 
You know for drilling holes that would be a bonus

Ok looking yet again it looks like a light , my bad


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

The router does in fact have two built in LED lights, but they leave a great deal to be desired, hence the addition of the multi LED torch. Whilst still on lighting, I made an illuminated base for my Makita 3612C, attached is a pdf showing the making. Earlier Makita routers used plain bearings which over the years can wear.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

neville9999 said:


> Rick what you are saying does not happen with any router, there is no deflection due to the fact that the router is a plunger router, Bosch, Makita, Festool Elu, whatever, as it does not matter as there is no deflection due to the brand, what is happening is that you are moving the router off what ever guide you are using be it a router fence or a fence on the router or a bearing on the cutter, and/or you are letting the router rise up a little, I like the features of plunger routers, I have a few of them, but I always lock the router down before I do the cut, if you are running mouldings then only go down part of the way and then lock it off and then do the cut, if you are doing a large cut then you can do that again as the final cut should be more like a clean up cut and as long as you don't let it rise up or move away from the fence then there will be no deflection. Makita are fine Routers and what you are suggesting is user error. N


Gotta disagree on this one . I looked at it again today and not impressed with the slop going from side to side. I guess I could post a video on YouTube to make sure were on the same page here . And I wouldn't consider this wear as they really don't have much time on them . It's a design issue if nothing issue .

Btw as you mentioned this only happens when it's not locked , so I suspect if I locked it and I continued it wouldn't be an issue .
So what's the point of a plunge router if you can't use it unless it's locked ?


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

It's quite normal practice with routers that don't have multi-step turrets to plunge to the cutting depth then lock the router for the rest of the cut. That's certainly the method that I used for many years before I made multi-step turrets for my routers.


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

"So what's the point of a plunge router if you can't use it unless it's locked ?"
*************************************************
For your safety, for all plunger cuts, the motor head should be firmly locked on the plunge posts. One example if you don't: Use a (fast spiral) double fluted spiral; it can self feed and drill itself right through your work, & spontaneously. There are many other risks.
Router Safety


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Wow this guy on Amazon wasn't to pleased . It isn't an upper model though but neither are mine . But it puts a bad taste in your mouth regarding there products regardless 

Makita RP0900K 1-1/4 Horsepower Plunge Router


> There is no doubt that Makita has a reputation of producing good tools, well this is not one of them. I needed a router to inlay veneer in a table top and bought this router just for that purpose. What terrible disappointment. SLOP in the plunging mechanism makes it impossible to do precision work. Only a robot pressing straight down on the center of the router could plunge it without deflecting the bit to one side or the other, but of course if I had a CNC robot I wouldn't be buying a router in the first place.


http://www.amazon.ca/Makita-RP0900K...qid=1401051413&sr=8-3&keywords=Makita+Routers


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Quillman said:


> "So what's the point of a plunge router if you can't use it unless it's locked ?"
> *************************************************
> For your safety, for all plunger cuts, the motor head should be firmly locked on the plunge posts. One example if you don't: Use a (fast spiral) double fluted spiral; it can self feed and drill itself right through your work, & spontaneously. There are many other risks.
> Router Safety


But regardless you still at some point have to plunge down to get to the depth your going to . And if it's stationary and there's deflection as your plunging before you can lock it you may end up with a nick in whatever your doing . It's not going to happen in every scenario , but it has happened to me on occasion .
I'd sooner just have a HEAD START and own a plunge router that didn't actually have any deflection to begin with . I never read one bad review on amazon regarding Festool though


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## Quillman (Aug 16, 2010)

You might find one in a sample of a 100.
Hence my recommendation that you use a cutter narrower than the slot is wide.
Moreover, you're asking too much. Routers and their components are in the dark ages.
You will not get 5000$ mill performance from a 100$ router.
Would be interested if you could find one router maker/advertiser that boasted
his machine could hold even + or - .010" whilst plunging.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Quillman said:


> You might find one in a sample of a 100.
> Hence my recommendation that you use a cutter narrower than the slot is wide.
> Moreover, you're asking too much. Routers and their components are in the dark ages.
> You will not get 5000$ mill performance from a 100$ router.
> ...


Well Pat I do agree part of the problem is the operator . I have no idea how I screw up with a round off bit but I do . I consider the round off bit the straight bit with the bearing on the tip as I don't know my terminology yet .


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

These shots show the difference between a straight and roundover bit.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Ok straight bearing bit is what I was referring to . Thanks , I learned something today .
Actually I think I seen a thread on the 10 bits you should own . I will have to purchase them and try and memorize a few for the future.
Freud are the ones available at Windsor Plywood . I have always used Exchange a Bit in the past but the owner of Windsor Plywood kinda frowns upon them


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

RainMan1 said:


> Gotta disagree on this one . I looked at it again today and not impressed with the slop going from side to side. I guess I could post a video on YouTube to make sure were on the same page here . And I wouldn't consider this wear as they really don't have much time on them . It's a design issue if nothing issue .
> 
> Btw as you mentioned this only happens when it's not locked , so I suspect if I locked it and I continued it wouldn't be an issue .
> So what's the point of a plunge router if you can't use it unless it's locked ?


Rick just to clarify your post, if you are saying that the motor portion of the router is moving inside the base section, and after it has been locked off, if this is what you are saying is happening then my opinion is that the router 'has a wear issue' or it has been dropped, as once the router is locked then the two parts should be rigid. N

Anouther comment from N, just to be sure, I did say that I 'lock' a plunge router when I do any cut, so there is some chance that you are not doing this, that you are pushing it down against a depth stop and then doing the cut with the router 'not locked', if this is what you are doing then there could be some movement, however I would recommend that you always lock the plunge when you do any cut as the motor section and the base section do need to have a looseness to allow the plunge to happen but this should be locked when you do the cut. Neville


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

neville9999 said:


> Rick just to clarify your post, if you are saying that the motor portion of the router is moving inside the base section, and after it has been locked off, if this is what you are saying is happening then my opinion is that the router 'has a wear issue' or it has been dropped, as once the router is locked then the two parts should be rigid. N
> 
> Anouther comment from N, just to be sure, I did say that I 'lock' a plunge router when I do any cut, so there is some chance that you are not doing this, that you are pushing it down against a depth stop and then doing the cut with the router 'not locked', if this is what you are doing then there could be some movement, however I would recommend that you always lock the plunge when you do any cut as the motor section and the base section do need to have a looseness to allow the plunge to happen but this should be locked when you do the cut. Neville


Yes it happens while it is unlocked , not locked , and I'm referring to the motor section moving in the base 
. You know I think you may have come up something I never thought of , it's hitting the depth stop . Very good point but I'm not sure . I looked at them and I not impressed with the movement the motor makes inside the base , but these were under 200 bucks also , not flagship routers .
I'm getting rid of them and upgrading . Just having a tough time determining what to get at this point .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> I've had many routers since 1974 and the worst for play in the pillars was the Bosch GOF-1300-ACE, with this one in the table I had to shim it slightly forward so that pressure of the wood forced it vertical. Without doubt my current main router the Makita RP2301FC which uses linear bearings is the best. It also has a quite efficient dust collection system.


Well Harry I'm going to see of our local dealer has this model in stock . I hope they have guide bushings available in store for it too . May be a little to much to ask from HomeHardware 

All my tools are dewalt and makita now , so maybe I won't stray to far . 
I'm finding the Bosch models interesting to .
One thing I do not like is combo routers where the base changes . I prefer a plunge only system as I feel it will be better IMO


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

I've been saying it for years Rick, there is no substitute for a tool designed for a specific purpose. My only exception to this rule is my Makita RTO700CZ3 kit which remains a TRIM router with each and every base.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Harry , this isn't going good lol . This one horse town that I live in has one makita to look at , the model below yours . Well the router has a unacceptable amount of side play deflection as your plunging , and to boot it's stuck if you push it to far down ? 
I'm on call for another 6 weeks straight so I can't leave town . The nearest big city is a 4.5 hour drive .
There's a Bosch router ,but a lower model than the one I'd like to look at . Our Windsor plywood dealer uses Bosch and likes them except for the fact the switches all calf after a while . Funny as read that on the internet about the switch issue before he even mentioned it .

I just wish they had makitas top model there to look at . Dang small towns anyways


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## harrysin (Jan 15, 2007)

Be patient Rick, remember what they say, "act in haste repent in leisure"!


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

harrysin said:


> Be patient Rick, remember what they say, "act in haste repent in leisure"!


Patience is not one of my strong points lol


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