# Anyone use/have the Kehoe Dovetail Spline Jig?



## thewoodennewfie (Jan 18, 2008)

The Kehoe Dovetail Spline jig. Looks interesting. Just wondering how good it is or if anyone has had any experience with it?


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hopefully someone has. 

Just giving this a "punt".


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Hey newfie. I have one and love it! It's simple to use and I love the way I can vary the spacing so fast and easy.

I have had mine for i think 7 years about. I go through phases where I build alot of projects with it then set it aside for a year or so and use mostly my traditinal jig (a STOTS now, used to use a Leigh). Last Novemeber I needed to buy a replacemet part for it (was going to make Christmas gifts - wine racks) and discovered the company was in the middle of a change of ownership. 

Long story short I actually got a PHONE CALL from the new onwer one day and how he got my number I don't know. Maybe I had left it with Mrs. kehoe and forgot. The guy was super accomodating and talked to me for probably 20 minutes. I don't remember it all but I remember I was impressed with his commitment to continue the company. I think he said his wife was actually going to be running the company (?). Don't quote me on that though.

He shipped my part to me priority mail. He not only mailed me the new stop block I paid for but some "complimentary splines" as well. They were Osage Orange and his note said they look great when used with Walnut and dark woods. Nice touch I thought. 

Well as far as the jig itself you'll have to ask me questions because I don't know what to tell you other than it is simple (which is what I like even though I have an engineering background - go figure) and easy to use. It does not make traditional pin and tail dovetails I will tell you that right now. It makes splines that have a 1 degree taper. After you cut the grooves in the corner of your box or whatever, using the main jig (that's the actual Kehoe jig that does that) you use your router to cut the tapered grooves into the work piece this way, then you tap these splines into the grooves and they get tighter as you do this. You get another jig that you use to make your own splines with on your table saw. If you are one of those woodworkers than doesn't own a table saw forget about this jig. No way you could make splines without a table saw.

They website claims that they look like they are painted on, and i can tell you for a fact that's not an exaggeration. After you get used to using it, you can come up with many different looks with it though.


Le t me know if you want any opinions on the Festool TS75 or the STOTS tempalte master too. These are my two most recent additions and both are awesome! 

Let me know if you have specific questions on this Kehoe jig. I was expecting to only be asking questions for about 3 months - it's cool to be answering one so quick! 

P.S. Tried to use a smilie and it won't let me, do I have to make some sort of adjustment in my user panel?

Cheers, Simon.


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi Simon,

For the smiley's, if you use the "quick reply", you'll need to type the lettering for each smiley. If you're using the "new reply", the smileys are located on the right side of the screen.


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## Router is still my name (May 3, 2006)

> If you are one of those woodworkers than doesn't own a table saw forget about this jig. No way you could make splines without a table saw.


You can make them with this router bit.

http://www.amazon.com/Amana-45860-D...ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207878357&sr=8-2

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-24-106-...ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207878357&sr=8-6

http://www.amazon.com/Magnate-5402-...ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207878357&sr=8-7


There's nothing you can't do/make with a router and a right bit. :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Router is right on 

=============


Router is still my name said:


> You can make them with this router bit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

I have the same bit combo guys. It isn't the same thing. Not even close. You would need to visit the website and you can get a better idea of what the jig does. Well I guess you _could_ use the bit combo but since it does not produce a one degree taper you'd have to make a jig for that purpose. 

And even then it would not be anywhere near as fast as using a table saw. 

Oops! Tried to post the link to the website and found out that's a no-no. Guess I cannot claim to have read all the rules. Anyway, if you google kehoe jig you can check it out oif you want. Hope that wasn't a rule violation too if so i will gladly remove any refernce to it!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI jigstik

You can make standard dovetail splines with a dovetail bit

All I can say the OP jig will do it all with one jig plus more on the router table..
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-
see video on the same page...
===========
http://stots.com/
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/stots1.htm


I don't have one but I don't like the look of it 
Just one more of the plastic tools on the market now days.


=========


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

I appreciate all the tips and info guys, I really do, and I hope I don't come across as argumentitive here, or trying to "prove a point" I assure you I'm not.

I believe the communication gap here is, you guys are just not understanding what the jig does. I can tell you think you do, but I believe you are all missing the boat by making assumptions based on your past experiences. Well of course that's what we all do myself included. 

I hope the guy who first asked this question looks in on all this I was just trying to answer his question the best I could. Hey woodenwife - i have one piece of advice for you . . . . 

These well-meaning gentlemen DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING about the Kehoe jig and what it can do. Just get it you will thank me!


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## thewoodennewfie (Jan 18, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the input.

Jigstik - thx for the nice review of this product. Always good to get a review of a product from a long time user. I think I might have to put this item on my list of "to get" products.

Cheers


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## woodworksnmore (Mar 18, 2008)

Ok, I'm going to put my two cents in if it's not too late.

I own the jig and have for the past 20+-(?) years. The reason for the question mark is because I can't remember how long it's been. 

I bought the jig at a tool show when it was first invented. I have the orginal everything. 

One guy said that it was just another plastic tool and that he didn't like the looks of it. I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on a great tool. One of the things I like about it, is the fact that it is plastic. If you mis-cut, you don't ruin any bit's or tools. But at the same time, it is a good solid tool. 

I have used it for just about everything, and I'm still learning new ways to use it. Now they even have new jigs/acc you can use with it. 

I would almost say, I am one of the orginal users of this tool. Make no mistake about it fellow woodworkers, this is a tool that is most usefull in the shop. I like the standard dovetail, but there is nothing pretty about it. This jig makes things very decrative and makes your project's come alive.

Jigstik: Nice job on describing this jig and how to use it.

Thank you for letting me get my two cents in.

Jay :sold:


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## woodworksnmore (Mar 18, 2008)

A follow up if you don't mind.

The guy who own's the jig now can be found in Woodworking Talk
He goes by TexasTimbers and/or RedflameBoxElder. You can feel free to mention that Jay from Woodworksnmore sent you. I consider him to be a friend of mine.


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi guys,

I watch a lot Charles Neil videos and frequent his website. Have picked up many good tricks and tips especially on finsihing. I just noticed he did a review of the Kehoe Jig on his blog. He says it's the "raw" video and is asking for input, but it looked great to me and all the other posters to his blog. 

It did an excellent job of showing what the jig can do. You doubters especially should watch it and you'll see why making splines with a router is no contest compared to using the spline-making jig that comes with the kit. 

I noticed on the Keyhoe website they now sell a "Master" system that has three seperate jigs. Wish I had bought mine recently. I might have to upgrade. 

Anyway, I am glad I saw the video because I thought of this thread, and shamefully, I must admit I had forgotten about this cool site and seeing the video reminded me I need to get my butt back over here and learn some more cool things to do with my router - the forvaorite tool of any sane woodworker!!!


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Oh, I guess the link would be helpful! 

*Video Review of the Kehoe Jig by Charles Neil*


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jigstik

Thanks for the video 

You should take a hard look at the Oak-Park jig, it will let you do it all with the same jig on the router table 

Dovetail slots and make the keys all with one jig, in that way your keys will always be dead on because you used the same dovetail bit..

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-

=======



Jigstik said:


> Oh, I guess the link would be helpful!
> 
> *Video Review of the Kehoe Jig by Charles Neil*


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

That's a cool looking jig. Doesn't do what the Kehoe does though as far as I can tell. It does not have the 1 degree taper incorporated into both the slot jig and the spline-making jig. You talk about perfect fit, that's the key to it, plus the speed. 

These splines look like they are painted on, just like they advertise. the price on the Kehoe is much more bang for the buck too. They are selling the Master system for $129 right now and you don't have to buy all the additional stuff. 

It looks to me like the Kehoe does more, faster, moire accurately, for less money. It isn't a one-trick pony either. 

Not knocking the Oak Park jig a bit. Woud love to see it in action. Thanks for showing it to us. Hey Bob I am guessing, but based on your reply, I bet you didn't watch the video, or else I am thinking you would understand the genius behind the Kehoe.

Thanks, Simon.


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

I just noticed they have a video there I am watching it now . . . . .


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Okay I watched it. The OP jig is not comparable to the Kehoe (not as in inferior) because it is not designed to do the same thing. 

The OP jig looks way cool and I want one, and will probably buy one because I can see it does a lot of things the Kehoe is not designed to do. But the kehoe does what it does in a way that is unsurpassed. No way the OP can match play on the same field as the Kehoe when it comes to making dovetailed splines because the splines made with the OP will not tighten up as they are tapped in. The router table would not be able to hang with the speed of making the splines on the table saw jig either. 

But I am not in a pithing match here I recognize the OP jig is a cool jig. I really like the 45 degree capability too, that's what made me want one!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jigstik

Yep , I did watch it,,,,I'm sure you know the keys are the hard part,that's what's neat about the oak part jig, it will do it all..and do it on the router table,,anytime you need to clamp a jig in place and use a hand router you will have errors..then it comes down to making the keys on the table saw,that's always tricky at best..

You also use the 
Butterfly Spline Bit, it's quick way to make the keys,, by just ripping it down the center, and make a pair at one time, you make them over size so they lock in place..

http://pricecutter.com/p18-4016/p/P18-4016/

http://pricecutter.com/search.asp?ss=butterfly&x=13&y=10



==========







Jigstik said:


> That's a cool looking jig. Doesn't do what the Kehoe does though as far as I can tell. It does not have the 1 degree taper incorporated into both the slot jig and the spline-making jig. You talk about perfect fit, that's the key to it, plus the speed.
> 
> These splines look like they are painted on, just like they advertise. the price on the Kehoe is much more bang for the buck too. They are selling the Master system for $129 right now and you don't have to buy all the additional stuff.
> 
> ...


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> . . . that's what's neat about the oak part jig, it will do it all..==========



No Bob, it will not do it all. It will not cut the spines on a 1 degree taper faster than you can say "Bob is almost as bull-headed as Simon, but unlike Simon will not admit something else has merit if he did not disover it."  See by now I could have made enough splines on the TS with a Kehoe jig for a whole project and that's no exaggeration. 




bobj3 said:


> ..then it comes down to making the keys on the table saw,that's always tricky at best..==========


Okay I am slow, but I eventually see the light. You are simply not going to admit a table saw can do something better than a router table. That has got to be it. You have never made splines on the table saw using the Kehoe spline-making jig, but you know it is "tricky at best". 

I'll pray for you Bob (don't forget to pray for me as well I am as hard-headed as you).


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI

I'm not a big fan of using the table saw, to make fine parts I always have saw blade marks on the stock..that show up like a sore thumb...when the router can do it so much better.... 

" I'll pray for you Bob " Thanks I need all that I can get 

======



Jigstik said:


> No Bob, it will not do it all. It will not cut the spines on a 1 degree taper faster than you can say "Bob is almost as bull-headed as Simon, but unlike Simon will not admit something else has merit if he did not disover it."  See by now I could have made enough splines on the TS with a Kehoe jig for a whole project and that's no exaggeration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

_" I'll pray for you Bob " Thanks I need all that I can get _


Hey at least we have the important stuff in common - I need all of it I can get too.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jigstik


I did add a snapshot or two of the jig on the router table just to show how easy it is to use on the router table, I didn't show any keys in the snapshot because they are so easy to make with this jig from Oak-Park... 

===


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm not following you Bob. Where are the snapshots? 

Are you the owner of the company that makes this product, or in anyway have a vested interest? I am asking becasue I have never seen such a lop-sided review of one jig whilst ignoring the obvious advantages of another. 

This is not an argument here my "tone of voice" is friendly here. Just trying to understand why you refuse to even consider the advantages of the one degree taper. It is something that once you experience it, the light bulb goes on. 

I am trying to figure out if you are just so highly biased toward the OP jig you will simply never acknowledge any other jig as having any positive attributes, or if it because you do not like table saws or what in the heck the deal is. 

Your unwillingness to have one single decent thing to say about another tool which has obvious an advantage over the OP jig makes your whole "endorsement" of the jig less credible IMO. 

Let me clear, as I have already said, I see how the OPP jig is a neat tool and I like it, and it seems like it would excel in many areas the Kehoe jig is not designed to tread. But unless you come right out and tell me that you can make splines having a one degree taper, consistently, and make several hundred in a half hour, and them take those splines and insert them in the work peice also having slots with a perfect one degree taper, then the OP jig cannot compete with the Kehoe jig in this task.

The one degree taper is not a gimick. It gives the jooint incomparable strength. Also, the splines are so tight when they are tapped in, it would be literally impossible for any other jig to make splines and spline groves anywhere NEAR as tight and strong. 

This does not mean the Kehoe jig is "better' than the OP jig. It means that it can do something better, faster, and more accurately. It does not mean it can do everything the OP jig can do. But the OP jig cannot do what the Kehoe jig does. No matter how you want to wishh it. 

I will make you an offer. I will buy an OP jig and you buy a Kehoe jig and lets both use them and give a review. I can tell you, based on both of our posts in this thread, an unbiased observor is going to be more likely to expect an honest review of the OP jig from me, than they would expect an honest review of the Kehoe jig from you! JMHO.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi

"Where are the snapshots? "
http://www.routerforums.com/88002-post15.html

" Are you the owner of the company that makes this product"

No, but I wish I was 

I guess it comes down to I like to use jigs on the router table, it's like using a hand power saw or a table saw for me, both can do the same job but the table saw can just do it better..

I don't buy many jigs but this one is one of the best I have come across.
It's like the box joint jigs that Oak-Park sells, the same thing is true about them.

The KISS is what I like about Oak-Park jigs ( KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid )

The Miter jig can do more that just one thing,and the key hole jig can only do one job...get more for your buck thing... 


========






Jigstik said:


> I'm not following you Bob. Where are the snapshots?
> 
> Are you the owner of the company that makes this product, or in anyway have a vested interest? I am asking becasue I have never seen such a lop-sided review of one jig whilst ignoring the obvious advantages of another.
> 
> ...


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Well, fair enough, but if you are going to push a company in such a biased way that it essentially slights another company un-deservedly, I am going to go to bat for the company being unfairly treated. I make this final post in this thread (I will try to stop after this anyway!) not for your benefit Bob I have given up on you  but for the benefit of anyone who ever researches the Kehoe jig and stumbles across this thread. 

I guess I should not be surprised to discover that someone who believes a router is superior to a table saw in every way, is simply unable to acknowledge the attributes of anything they do not have an enmotional attachment to. Emotion is much more powerful than logic and reason. 

The Kehoe jig does more than one thing, but it excels in one more than any other jig including the OP jig, and it does so many variations of that thing the possibilities are endless. The Kehoe can also be used on large projects that would be cumbersome or impossible to accomplish otherwise. 

I love the Kehoe jig, and I will probably also love the Oak Park jig as well. But they are designed for different tasks. You are ripping yourself off by not seeing the best attributes in other tools, and using them to your advantage. My head, and my heart, thankfully, are able to appreciate more than one thing simultaneously. 

I like the KISS method too, but my acronym is Keep It Short and Sweet. I don't fancy calling folks stupid even TIC. I know you don't mean it persoanlly to me and i don't take it that way, just showing you a better way to use the KISS acronym. Whether you recognize it as such is doubtful though . 

That z chair below would never hold up without the strength of tapered splines. Some of those large projects would be real fun on a router table as well. A 9' tall entertainment center, something I have used the Kehoe jig on, would be pert near impossible to spline on a router table unless you broke it down to smaller parts. With the Kehoe, you can add splines, double splines, inlaid splines, inlaid corner dressing through the splines and/or sandwich splines to a huge peice of furniture, even after it is built. You can do this quickly and accurately, even on a production scale. Not something you are going to pull off on a router table. 


Here's a few things I just took off their website...


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

Couple of more . . . .









View attachment KehoePic3.bmp


Okay I'm done Bob you get the last word.


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## karateed (Feb 7, 2006)

Hi Guys,

I have an open mind on all this topic because I'm very inexperienced in making these cuts. I looked at the demo from the jig website and I believe Jigstik may be right, that this jig is slightly different from the way many of our pros on this site have been doing things. It seems like it does something a regular cut doesn't and that is locks in the corners of the box in 2 directions, something that doesn't happen with a regular cut.

Anyway, just my 2 cents worth, I think there is something to learn here.

Ed......


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Jigstik

Just one last word for me too 

The jig can do so many jobs,,, anytime you need to use a sled on the router table, R & S, planing, sliding dovetails, lap joints from 0 to 45 deg. ,holding small parts,template/pattern work,finger joints on the end of stock, many,many more etc.
I make wooden hinges from time to time,like the one below and it works very well for this type of job.. 
The KISS call is from Bob and Rick and it just stuck, I call them like I see them ..don't take it that way  I only use it for router jigs....not to call people down...

I'm just say this jig is just so versatile unlike so many others...again more band for the buck....

===


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

It look like for the price one could own both and be very happy. The Kehoe jig is only 129.99 right now, I think the OP jig is like 125.00 but may require some other things if you do not have an OP set up.

Bob it sounds like I am going to be happy with the OP jig as I added it to my recent OP order!


The sales team at Oak park is so nice. I kept adding and changing my order and they had no problem with it and even called me twice to tell me certain packages had duplicate parts and offered a refund. NICE! I would have never known.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

I Nick

The only other thing you need is a 1" brass guide to use the jig..other than that it's set to go out of the box.. 

I did rework the one I have just a little bit, bigger hold down device ,the one it came with was a bit cheap and small and added some threaded rod and some wooden stop blocks for a quick way to make more than one item or to say to make every item the same over and over..

==========



nickao65 said:


> It look like for the price one could own both and be very happy. The Kehoe jig is only 129.99 right now, I think the OP jig is like 125.00 but may require some other things if you do not have an OP set up.
> 
> Bob it sounds like I am going to be happy with the OP jig as I added it to my recent OP order!
> 
> ...


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi nick,

I do have all the jigs from OP, and I have to agree with Bj about there ease of use. As he said, K.I.S.S.  The folks at OP are great people. I've had a few orders that had duplicates in them, they simply dropped the duplicate for me. Now if only OP had had the Leigh jig. 

Have a good one. 




nickao65 said:


> It look like for the price one could own both and be very happy. The Kehoe jig is only 129.99 right now, I think the OP jig is like 125.00 but may require some other things if you do not have an OP set up.
> 
> Bob it sounds like I am going to be happy with the OP jig as I added it to my recent OP order!
> 
> ...


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## woodshopdemos (Oct 13, 2008)

The Kehoe has always been a nice jig for my shop. It doesnt have the holding power of a real dovetail but it is easy and leaves a very nice looking corner.
Here is the story: (I wasn't allowed to post the page reference. evn tho it would have been very informative. I need 10 posts or greater. A foolish little rule it seems to me.)










and


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## Jigstik (Apr 10, 2008)

woodshodemos,

Nice site you have! I could not find the link you were referring to but man there is a lot of cool stuff on your site. 

You sure do seem to have a knack for finding shop assitants that, well, shall we say, are very easy on the eyes. 

I don't know if I agree with you on the traditional DTs being stronger than the tapered splines. I think if you use the splines optimally, meaning not just a few here and a few there, but use as many splines as what you would have tails on a traditional joint, I think the splines would hold together no matter what. the rtaditional DTs have more glue surface area, but traditional DTs are "loose" compared to the tapered splines, so i think that's where the trade-off might equalize each other. i don't know for sure I am not saying I do, jjust guessing because i have never tried to tear either type of joint apart. 

I use a STOTS for traditional DTs I love that little jig. But have you seen that ZEE chair? Try that with traditional DTs! If you could even do it, I don't thenk there is any way traditional DTs would be stronger than the tapered splines for something like that. traditional DTs can't get tight enough to resist THAT kind of stress. It's not just a locking joint on something like that, not just holding a corner togetr anymore, but it's resisting SHEAR stresses that a traditonal DT would never be able to do if you could even cut them for a wierd angle like that.

The taper gives the joint so much more strength than traditional DTs that it's hard to emphasize this too much. I guess the deal is, if a joint will be stronger than the wood itself, then it is strong enough. 

I have to get back to your site and check out all your reviews I have been looking real hard at the Festool Domino and also a TS75. Don't know if you have reviewed the TS75 yet, but I also wonder about that DeWalt track saw and how it compares.


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## woodshopdemos (Oct 13, 2008)

Jigstik,
My apologies for this very late response. I think you raise very valid points and I cant argue one way or another. It is like my view of the current FW article on strength of joinery...I just dont think some of the tests and conclusions are valid...but I do not have the data to prove otherwise. It is just a gutteral feel.
Having said that, the Kehoe jig does a fine job and looks great and is the easiest to do. That is my feeling of it.
As to the Stots jig... a great little product. I have used it a lot and have built one DT jig some 24" wide for a blanket chest build.










The Story: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/stots4.htm


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## gailrout01 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Kehoe Jig Demo*

Hello Everyone,

This video demo of the kehoe jig by Charles Neil may clear up any confusion - hope it helps!

dovetailspline.com

Gail C


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## Hamlin (Dec 25, 2005)

Hi,

ShopNotes Vol. 18 issue 104, pg. 8-9 show a jig similar you can create for far less than the Kehoe jig.


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## woodshopdemos (Oct 13, 2008)

Excuse me for the late response. I can now post URL links so I will update my reply.










and here is link: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rjig-1.htm Beth is my assistant there and all time favorite of mine, except for Elena who is current and might be reading this.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

I like your ShootOut demo but I didn't see the OakPark jig how can you have a shootout if only one gun shows up for the shootout.. ?

I think if you had the OakPark jig at the same place and the same time the Kehoe jig would be on the ground, and in the box.so to speak 

I don't recall seeing in all your pictures/demo's one brass guide in your router tables,,,I think once you find out how great the brass guides are you will use them all the time..I know you may say your CMT can't take them on, but it's no big deal to make a plate to take them on,,I have two of the CMT tables and they both have the insert plate to take on the brass guide ( both types PC and the bigger ones from OP and LeeValley )

see my Gallery for many pictures of them..
also see http://www.routerforums.com/88002-post15.html

http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51208&cat=1,43000

===






woodshopdemos said:


> Excuse me for the late response. I can now post URL links so I will update my reply.
> 
> 
> 
> and here is link: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rjig-1.htm Beth is my assistant there and all time favorite of mine, except for Elena who is current and might be reading this.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I like the Kehoe jig and the Oak Park jig. 

They really are different animals and I use both depending on what I am doing or what mood I am in.


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## Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. (Feb 25, 2009)

Hello to everyone of routerforums who may read this thread. 

This is an awkward post for me but here we go. My name is Kevin Jaynes and along with my partner, and best friend Terry (oh and she is my wife), we own and operate Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. 

We received an email tonight from a customer informing us we should visit this thread. As far as I can tell, the only negative press we are getting is from people who have never even used our jig. 

I have read the entire thread and I would like to say "thank you!" to those who are obviously Kehoe customers. I would also like to challenge those who are not to be less critical of something they obviously do not fully, or even partially comprehend. 

I see many apparent wonderful things about the Oak Park jig, and I am sure it is all of them. But why should someone build up another jig by saying . . ._"the Kehoe jig would be on the ground, and in the box.so to speak . . ."_?

The woodworking world is huge. Diverse. Plentiful even. So why should we think of it as so small we have to essentially bash someone else's product to hopefully make another one look better? 

We do not, have not, nor will we ever talk negatively about someone else's product whether they deserve it or not. The market will determine who should survive and who should not. I am disappointed to find that kind of talk here. Hopefully it is not the SOP. 

Best regards, Kevin and Terry Jaynes. 

BTW, the Oak Park jig looks pretty good to us! :sold:


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Kevin

I ask John how he could have a shoot out with only one shooter ...like in the days of old ,, only one shooter can win a shoot out..I did not put yours down I said that the OP would win in a shoot out...I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way...,when the shooter back when won ,the loser would go into a box... 

===



Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. said:


> Hello to everyone of routerforums who may read this thread.
> 
> This is an awkward post for me but here we go. My name is Kevin Jaynes and along with my partner, and best friend Terry (oh and she is my wife), we own and operate Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd.
> 
> ...


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I still say the Kehoe jig is not a dovetail jig but more of a spline jig. The joints look different and in many cases I prefer the Keyhoe joint do I so not get how you can compare them at all. They are DIFFERENT. It is a neat little jig and compliments the other jigs I have. 

Comparing the joint from a Kehoe to a regular dovetail joint does a disservice to the Kehoe jig. I think the joint the Kehoe makes stands on its own. 

I also think it is even simpler than the Oak park jig to use. Actually, I am giving mine to my brother and buying a brand new Kehoe setup tomorrow.


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## woodshopdemos (Oct 13, 2008)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Kevin
> 
> I ask John how he could have a shoot out with only one shooter ...like in the days of old ,, only one shooter can win a shoot out..I did not put yours down I said that the OP would win in a shoot out...I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way...,when the shooter back when won ,the loser would go into a box...
> 
> ===


 The shoot out I see has 11 jigs. There are many more but I think this represents a cross section. I dont know of the Oak Park other than by their catalog page. Probably a nice jig but I dont see anything special about it. And the brass insert? I probably have a couple in the drawer but what is special about it?
I think Nick described the Kehoe very wll as being a tapered spline. This taper does allow you to tighten the keys. I dont see that the Oak Park jig can do that. With their jig you make a straight slot even if it is with a DT bit. If you them create a tapered key to fit and tighten, it comes close to what the Kehoe jig can do but bythe nature of the design, the key will not tighten over all the surfaces -- it is a taper in a straight slot...good but not Kehoe.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

1st. let me say I like your web site and have for a long time  you have some GREAT demo's 

The OP jig can do the same as the Kehoe jig and so much more,,,it can make the keys with the same jig at almost the same time without a new setup...the keys with fit right in place,no need to drive them in with a hammer.

I wish you had a OP jig it would blow your mind, of all the things it can do and all for about the same price as the Kehoe jig..
I'm not putting down the Kehoe jig I'm just saying why buy one jig to do just one job when you can buy one that can do many..I just call them like I see them  sorry Kevin ...and... John 
They suggest using the 1/2" dovetail bit in the OP jig but you can use many types and sizes with the jig..

Many want to have and use a sled with the router table and the OP jig can do that job very well also..many want to put in blind dovetails and the OP jig can do that job very well also, many ,.many jobs, like the corner block for the cabinet or table legs 

The real key to the OP jig is the brass guide in the router table,,,,it will do all the setup for you and keep the jig running true all the time...

I will say out of all the jigs I have and I do have many, it's the best one I have  because it can do so many jobs and do them very well.., John ,pickup one of the OP jigs and give it a try out and I'm almost sure you will say the same as I, WOW great jig.. 

==========



woodshopdemos said:


> The shoot out I see has 11 jigs. There are many more but I think this represents a cross section. I dont know of the Oak Park other than by their catalog page. Probably a nice jig but I dont see anything special about it. And the brass insert? I probably have a couple in the drawer but what is special about it?
> I think Nick described the Kehoe very wll as being a tapered spline. This taper does allow you to tighten the keys. I dont see that the Oak Park jig can do that. With their jig you make a straight slot even if it is with a DT bit. If you them create a tapered key to fit and tighten, it comes close to what the Kehoe jig can do but bythe nature of the design, the key will not tighten over all the surfaces -- it is a taper in a straight slot...good but not Kehoe.


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

I am lucky I have both now and like both!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

Didn't you say that you are giving the OP jig away, I was so sad to hear that  

=======



nickao65 said:


> I am lucky I have both now and like both!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Not me I have only had the thing a month or two!


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Nick

"I also think it is even simpler than the Oak park jig to use. Actually, I am giving mine to my brother and buying a brand new Kehoe setup tomorrow."

http://www.routerforums.com/103102-post43.html

==========


nickao65 said:


> Not me I have only had the thing a month or two!


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Please read again Bob:


Yes the Kehoe jig is simpler to use and I am going to give my "KEHOE jig" to my brother and get a new set up.  Actually I already did.

I meant mine as the Kehoe jig.


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## Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. (Feb 25, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> The OP jig can do the same as the Kehoe jig and so much more,,,it can make the keys with the same jig at almost the same time without a new setup...the keys with fit right in place,no need to drive them in with a hammer.


Hi Bob, 

We are becoming pen pals!  I'm writing to make one more attempt to keep the facts somewhat realistic. Several others in this thread have tried to bring to your attention that the OP jig does not incorporate the 1° taper into its joint like the Kehoe does. It does this automatically and effortlessly. The OP jig does not do this. 

It is inaccurate to continue to make the statement that the OP can do "everything" the Kehoe Jig can do and so much more. It may be able to many things the KJ is not designed to do, but it certainly cannot do everything the KJ can do and I assure you the KJ can do many things the OP jig cannot. I can certainly list them, but this is not my objective. 

You are a talented "marketing" guru though, to wit: _"the keys with fit right in place,no need to drive them in with a hammer."_ I have to hand it to you that was entertaining to read.  That's what you call making a wonderful feature sound like a liability! 



bobj3 said:


> I just call them like I see them  sorry Kevin


I'm afraid it doesn't appear that way to me Bob. You are calling it like you wish others saw it, but no need to apologize to me. I don't mind honest critique of our product, but you are not engaged in that. You are totally ignoring the most important features of the KJ, then making the claim the OP can accomplish these un-acknowledged features, and do them better, and for about the same money! A complex campaign Bob and a position that is untenable. 

I am not trying to get you to say a kind word about our jig, or to even acknowledge the benefit of the 1° taper (you have never acknowledged it in the entire thread that I could see) but would it be too much to ask you to stop misleading people on this forum by stating that the OP can do everything the Kehoe can? Because it simply cannot. The jigs are inherently different, and they both have strengths and weaknesses compared to each other. 

I tend to agree with Nick. They both have their place in his shop. I don't have a problem with that I'm glad to know he recognizes our uniqueness in the areas we excel! 

Nick, are you aware that you can create "box spline joints" with your KJ? Just substitute a straight bit in lieu of a dovetail bit and cut your splines at 0° miter on the saw and viola! Box joint splines just like the OP can probably make. Of course with ours you will have to "hammer" them in because they will have a 1° taper automatically and effortlessly incorporated into both the groove and spline. 

I would like to thank routerforums.com for allowing me to present the facts about our jig as I see them. I believe it is quite obvious to even the casual observer I am not knocking the Oak Park jig, I sincerely believe it is probably a fine tool with the ability to accomplish some things our jig is not designed to do.


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## Ray Newman (Mar 9, 2009)

Playing the Devil’s Advocate: Why not a shop-built jig?

If it can be fabricated in the shop & meet your needs, why not build it? Better craftsmanship results from working more often w/ your tools. It will also give you confidence to tackle different projects. 

Awhile back, I received a Kehoe Jig as a gift & returned it. In my mind it really didn't do anything that I couldn't already do w/ a sled /cradle jig holding the work @ 45 degrees on the router table.

I mostly fabricate small/medium sized boxes w/ a sled to hold the box to the router table while routing the corners for a dovetail key.. 

To trim the dovetail keys flush, first trim close to flush / a flush trim saw, then employ a sharp straight bit in a laminate trimmer/small router, mounted in an offset base. Set the depth carefully & there is very little left to sand flush. Keys are hardwood, a light glue application, & a few light taps sets them in place. It does take a few trial & error set ups to cut the keys.

Depending upon the size of the work, a WoodWorker might very well be better served by building sleds/cradles of various sizes to more easily accommodate the work. On my sleds/cradles, I cut the base in half, then glued a 1" wide strip to accommodate a 1" dia. router template in the router table. This served 3 functions: keeps the jig straight; acts as "stop" to keep the bit from too much exposure: & I can use it on my shop built router cabinet or on a much smaller router table. 

The hardest is accurate 45 degree cuts for the braces. I made my current cradle from scrap 3/4” plyw’d & short sections of 2X4 for the braces -- that‘s what was in the scrap box. One half inch ply would better weight-wise.

W/ such a cradle/jig, straight splines can also be cut. Such splines & dovetails sometimes are referred to as "mock" splines" or "mock dovetails." Most router books have plans for making such a jig. One can also be found on p. 30 of Yeung Yan’s “Classic Joints With Power Tools.” IIRC, Shop Notes &/or WoodSmith had an article about such a jig/cradle

As for the 1 degree taper touted by the Kehoe Jig, I think that is a non-issue. I once built a box about 18” w X 12” d X12” h from some scrap 3/4 plyw’d. Mitered joints, rabetted in the top & bottom & cut 3-4 dovetail keys for ea. corner. The box served its purpose & when time for the recycling bin, I took a 5 lbs. hammer to it to test the corners. Long story short: swinging the hammer from the inside along the longest plane, it required great effort to break it apart. Just glue & dovetail keys held it together -- I doubt a 1 degree taper would have held any better or longer....


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## dovetail_65 (Jan 22, 2008)

Anyone can make anything or copy any jig. 

The Kehoe jig is turnkey, any beginner can use it out of the box and even a very seasoned pro can get good use of it.

I love it.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Kevin

Pen pal 

Tell you what,, send me one of your jigs and I will do a real shoot out,,and give a very honesty review on it ,, I will return your jig after I do the shoot out  you have my word on it...  who knows I just may want to buy one after....

Just PM me and I will give you my address 

By the way do you own or have one of the OP jigs ?


===


=========


Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> We are becoming pen pals!  I'm writing to make one more attempt to keep the facts somewhat realistic. Several others in this thread have tried to bring to your attention that the OP jig does not incorporate the 1° taper into its joint like the Kehoe does. It does this automatically and effortlessly. The OP jig does not do this.
> 
> ...


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## Lonely Raven (Mar 11, 2009)

Bump!

Great thread!

The bullheadedness rampant in this thread is very entertaining.

I see a lot of cultish love for the Oak Park stuff in these forums. So much so that it's starting to turn me off from OP stuff....I'm afraid I may like the KISS Cool-Aid. LOL

I have a Kehoe jig on the way. I'm interested to see how it works on some of the larger projects I have in mind like these big 42" X 42" guitar speaker cabinets I'm planning on making. I can't imagine swinging a 42" box around on a table router! LOL My fiancé also wants me to make some bookcases for the library in our new house...I thought I'd dress them up a bit with dovetails...but dovetail splines might work well there too. Again, I can't imagine swinging long pieces of wood around on the router table...

And what's with ignoring the 1 degree taper? That's a key feature of the Kehoe that people seem to be pretending doesn't exist. 

Funny stuff. I'm looking forward to trying out the STOTS jig mentioned here as well. Thanks for mentioning that guys, another tool to add to the arsenal.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Lonely Raven

Because you are a user of the jig how about giving the new user a hand with hers and the error she is having with it...

http://www.routerforums.com/introductions/13037-kehoe-jig.html

========



Lonely Raven said:


> Bump!
> 
> Great thread!
> 
> ...


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hi Kevin,

i as a neophyte and one that doesnt own a kehoe jig watch posts on this forum. i realize you make money from selling your jigs and if i was depending on the sales of the jigs, im sure i would be as enthusiastic as you about defending my product.

but as an observer of this forum for awhile, i see no other person as knowledgeable about jigs in general as bobj.

i value his opinion after seeing him save newcomers time ,money and aggravation and heartache.

its great to see someone who does tell it as he sees it. if he thinks an op product isnt the best he says it. 

if you want to criticize him thats ok, but to state that he is a marketer for op is rediculous and i wish you would apologise for that. you dont know how many times i have seen him crtitze op. 

bobj wouldnt want me speaking up for him, he is just that great of a person, but you should spend some time reading his post and get to know what knid of person he is.

thanks for listening to someone who thinks bobj got a raw deal from you!

its ok to disagree as long as we respect each other,


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## Bob N (Oct 12, 2004)

Hi Levon,

Hope you got some of the this rain we have had for the past few days up this way. It helps keep the pollen down and the fuzzies out of the head so clear thinking can prevail 

Hope you enjoyed the trip up this way last week.


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## levon (Sep 14, 2008)

hello Bob,

we had a great trip. i m afraid we havent had enough rain to wash the pollen out. wish we could get more rain. you know you lit up my face with a smile when i saw your post! 
im glad youre keeping me honest, lol

hope you had a great weekend Bob .


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## Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. (Feb 25, 2009)

Levon,

I have been respectful to Bob and I do not believe Bob feels slighted by my light-hearted jab; I observed that we had been making our points but also jesting with each other as well to keep a little levity going. Bob if you were "offended" then please accept my apology, I certainly meant no disrespect, and I believe that is obvious to most who would read this thread. 

Speaking of this thread, I think it would be best for me to stay out of it as at this point. 

My sincere best to all concerned. Kevin.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI Kevin

No apology needed and I'm not offended ,,I think it's always best to get it from the guy who knows more about it than most,that would be you 

Did you see the post from a member that needed some help with the jig ?

I get get more out of someone with a sharp stick that I can by saying that's a great jig ,,,, Please don't back away from this thread...it will help many I'm sure 

=======



Kehoe Jig Co. Ltd. said:


> Levon,
> 
> I have been respectful to Bob and I do not believe Bob feels slighted by my light-hearted jab; I observed that we had been making our points but also jesting with each other as well to keep a little levity going. Bob if you were "offended" then please accept my apology, I certainly meant no disrespect, and I believe that is obvious to most who would read this thread.
> 
> ...


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## Lonely Raven (Mar 11, 2009)

bobj3 said:


> Hi Lonely Raven
> 
> Because you are a user of the jig how about giving the new user a hand with hers and the error she is having with it...
> 
> ...



Ahh, I only just now saw this and saw that thread where Sue was having issues. 

I probably can't be anymore help than the Kehoe dude can be, especially since I only just got the jig and haven't used it yet. Still busy getting the garage/shop put together. 

Hopefully she gets that figured out.


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## TreasureChest (Feb 7, 2009)

I saw charles neil's podcast video on it the other day! WOW! That jig looks really cool to me. I think I'll give it a try on some boxes. Sure looks simple and easy to use. would make nice drawers too.

Are there any other tricks to using it that we should know? any gotchas? special techniques?


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## TreasureChest (Feb 7, 2009)

nick,

any special tricks we should be aware of?


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## TreasureChest (Feb 7, 2009)

the kehoe and oak parks jigs, to me look like two different animals. no comparioson. so why are we trying to compare them?


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi John

All I can say ,,see the snapshots below 

======



TreasureChest said:


> the kehoe and oak parks jigs, to me look like two different animals. no comparioson. so why are we trying to compare them?


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## TreasureChest (Feb 7, 2009)

Oh, ok, you're saying that the OP can also make corner dovetail reinforcements. If you didn't want the added strngth of the kehoe as well as other strong uses, your right I guess.

The unique kehoes 1* slant makes it Lock into place which is a lot stronger doesn't it?


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## Mike (Nov 22, 2004)

We live in an interesting world. One of the best things about routerforums.com is we support all brands of products(provided they perform as advertised) and are happy to share the information. We encourage manufacturers to join and support their products by helping members. I happen to own the Oak Park miter jig, and I have never used the Kehoe jig. I am glad their is an expert available to help members with questions since I can't. There is no reason to argue over which is best. They are different products that can complete some similar tasks. Great! I look forward to learning more about the Kehoe jig and it's capabilities. Please remember that Bob and Rick developed their products to work together as a complete system. Kreg is doing much the same thing with their pocket hole manufacturing products. For members who own an Oak Park table my guess is the Oak Park jig would be the best product to consider. Far more members built their own table or use a different brand. They might benefit the most from a Kehoe jig. Let's keep the forums about information that is presented accurately and easy to understand. The more we learn the better woodworkers we will be.


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## bobj3 (Jan 17, 2006)

HI John

You may want to check out the post below 

http://www.routerforums.com/jigs-fixtures/13386-dovetail-spline-joints-op-jig.html#post109393

========



TreasureChest said:


> Oh, ok, you're saying that the OP can also make corner dovetail reinforcements. If you didn't want the added strngth of the kehoe as well as other strong uses, your right I guess.
> 
> The unique kehoes 1* slant makes it Lock into place which is a lot stronger doesn't it?


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## gallianp (Oct 13, 2009)

What a fun read!! It even had a shoot-out almost a shout-out!!

I see the price has increased... for the kehoe jig..

enjoyed every last bit of this -- wish there was more to read.... oh yes "six degrees of separation" is better than "one degree" :wub:


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## woodworksnmore (Mar 18, 2008)

Router is still my name said:


> You can make them with this router bit.
> 
> Amazon.com: Amana Tool 45860 Butterfly Spline 2-Flute Carbide Tipped Router Bit, 1/2-Inch Shank: Home Improvement
> 
> ...




This is incorrect. They now make a jig for the miter saw that works great.


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