# table saw fence dilemma



## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm sure you guys have heard this question before - I searched the forum to try and find som answers before posting, but didn't come up with much, so here goes: 

I have a cheap table saw. I don't know the exact model, but it's a Craftsman bench-top style saw that sits on a very simple four-legged stand, very basic. I bought it used off of Craigslist and paid $85 for it. From what I can tell, it seems to be a decent enough tool as these things go, but, like most inexpensive saws, the rip fence is beyond abysmal in quality. It is basically useless. 

The obvious solution to this problem is an aftermarket rip fence system. However, all of the ones I've seen online start at around $300, over 3 times what I paid for my saw. 

There are tons of videos on YouTube, etc., that show how to build your own rip fence, but they all involve working with metal, but I don't weld or do anything like that, so I can't really go that route. 

So here are my questions: 

1. Is there some kind of "middle ground" here that I haven't found yet, like a decent aftermarket fence system that doesn't cost so much as to make it ridiculous to put it on a cheap saw? 

2. If I did decide I could spend up to $300 to solve this problem, should I go for a good aftermarket fence or maybe look at a better saw that comes with a decent fence (if such a thing could be had for $300 or less)? 

3. Are there any other solutions here that I haven't thought of? 

Thanks so much for your help. 

Bryan


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Chances are if you upgrade your saw,especially to a older quality cabinet saw like a unisaw,you will not be happy with the fence it has.If you go the route of upgrading your fence now,and try a few until you find exactlywhat you want,stash the old fence away so when it's time to move on to a cabinet saw you can keep your quality fence and sell the craftsman with its original fence.


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## DonkeyHody (Jan 22, 2015)

*Swing for the Fence*



woodpig said:


> I'm sure you guys have heard this question before - I searched the forum to try and find som answers before posting, but didn't come up with much, so here goes:
> 
> I have a cheap table saw. I don't know the exact model, but it's a Craftsman home shop/contractor style saw, very basic. I bought it used off of Craigslist and paid $85 for it. From what I can tell, it seems to be a decent enough tool as these things go, but, like most inexpensive saws, the rip fence is beyond abysmal in quality. It is basically useless.
> 
> ...



Bryan,
I don't think you'll find a decent saw with a good fence for $300. I would save until I could buy a good fence such as Beisemeyer and put it on the saw you have. Then, when you upgrade to a better saw, you can move the good fence to the new saw. That's not the way I did it, but it's what I would do if I could do it over. Others may disagree, but I think a good fence is an essential SAFETY item as well as increasing the accuracy and enjoyment of your woodworking. I think the fence is more important than the saw it sits on. I know $300 is a lot of money at this point in your hobby, but if this is something your are going to get serious about, it's a good investment.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

To bad you couldn't find a used Biesemeyer fence on the cheap . I've used saws worth much more than yours and there fences were still what I would consider a pita. 
My 10" delta contractors saw had the Bies and it was built like a tank , love that fence .

I think I paid $800 for a 52" but the 30 is cheaper and we pay a premium for everything here in Canada so you may find one cheaper yet

Ok I was just looking on eBay and it's just above your budget . It says universal so you could do some research and see if it fits your saw . You'll love this fence 


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-BC30T...meyer-Fence-and-Rail-System-NEW-/281580532898


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

This would be the deal of the century . You may have to drill a few new holes at the worst , not sure.
Hope you got a lot of room 

https://for-sale.yakaz.com/used-biesemeyer-fence#lo=4&docid=0003edpm63t0l91m


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Sorry Bryan , as I never noticed your saw was a bench top style . May look a little odd with a 52" fence ? 
I'd hate to say it but if there's anyway possible I'd start from scratch . Nice if you could find a uses contractors saw with a Bies .
I have personally never found a middle of the ground fence system that's worth more than a paper weight


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

I also missed it was a bench saw,was thinking it was a contractor saw,so I agree with Rick about starting from scratch,in that the saw may not merit ,or even accept a aftermarket fence.


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

Wow, thank you guys for the quick replies and good advice. I think I will start saving toward a Biesmeyer (or similar) fence. $300 is a lot of money for me at this point, but I have really only been thinking about it in the short term -- when I consider the point that all of you made about being able to keep the good fence long-term even if I sell the cheap saw, it makes a lot more sense. And, as DonkeyHody pointed out, it is a good investment if I intend to get serious about woodworking, which I do. 
RainMan, I really wish I could take advantage of the great deal on that 52" Biesemeyer that you posted--I'm actually getting ready to build extension "wings" onto both sides of my saw deck next weekend, so a 52" fence would be just fine on there once that's done.  
Thanks again for your help, guys - this is a great forum! 
Bryan


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Consider the shop fox standard fence at 275. It ships on many of the Grizzly table saws. I have one on mine and it is pretty good. Accurate, smooth movement and solid when locked. You might be able to find used. There's a recent review of it on a certain lumber jock site than gives it good marks. Lots of positive comments from other who have it as well. The reviewer put it on a 113 Craftsman TS which might well be close to yours.


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## phillip.c (Aug 9, 2012)

In general you won't be able to purchase an aftermarket fence for your saw. The aftermarket fences are larger, industrial style fences made to fit on or over the dense extruded rails indicative of cabinet style or hybrid style table saws. 

I recall that Matthias Wandel made a fence for his home-made saw. You might try something similar. 

Homemade table saw build


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

phillipdanbury said:


> Tvhe aftermarket fences are larger, industrial style fences made to fit on or over the dense extruded rails indicative of cabinet style or hybrid style table saws.


I dis agree with this part of you statement.Aftermarket fences have there own rails,the original fence rails are removed from the saw and the aftermarket rails mounted on the saw to replace the originals.With a bit of ingenuity I am sure the op could make most fences work,as he intends on building a cabinet to support the whole thing


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

I saw a built rip fence yesterday, looking for something else. Have a look here


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## vindaloo (May 30, 2009)

Just found another one here


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

Thanks to all who posted links to DIY fence builds! I will be checking those out. In the meantime, I copied the first few responses to my post to my wife in an email, and she not only agreed but told me to go ahead and get a good fence for my saw. Love that woman! I think she has fewer objections to investments into this hobby than into my other ones, as she has the potential to get something out of this one for herself, assuming I get good enough at it.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Googled table saw fence in mi,came up with a shop fox on Craig's list for $200
Looks like a beismyer clone,might be worth a look,make sure it includes the rails


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

A fence system bolts to the rim of the saw table. Make sure the rim of your saw is strong enough to support a larger, heavier system(fence plus rail or rails). You could be wasting money on a new fence for that saw as benchtop models tend to be very light weight saws. 

There is another alternative. A friend sold me his old Rockwell 10" when he decided to upgrade. I only paid a $100 for it. They had a decent fence on them and will accept a new fence if you go that way.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Bryan--i'm glad to read you're moving forward on a fence. Regardless of the price, $85 or $850 or $2850, a table saw is basically a motor spinning a blade through a slot in a table. If the blade spins true, and the table top can be squared to the blade--it's a functional saw. The rip fence on benchtop and contractor saws was often just enough to do rough construction cuts, not cabinet cuts with higher tolerances. 

So...i've taken a view that my fence is a completely separate tool from my table saw. The fence system on my current saw cost more than that saw did, but it could be that i'll swap saws a few more times in my life and keep the same fence i'm using. 

When you get a chance, find and post your saw's model number and a few pictures if you can (to upload straight from your computer you don't need to have 10 posts). That way some of the folks here who really know their stuff can give you more accurate ideas. Shoot, there was a Unifence on SW Michigan CL a few weeks ago at a great price. Same guy had a pair of Unisaw wings--i'm pretty sure he's the one that beat me to an old Unisaw sold by an art school in the St Joseph area. Hated missing that one.

earl


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

*pics of my saw and the fence I think I want*



greenacres2 said:


> When you get a chance, find and post your saw's model number and a few pictures if you can (to upload straight from your computer you don't need to have 10 posts). That way some of the folks here who really know their stuff can give you more accurate ideas. Shoot, there was a Unifence on SW Michigan CL a few weeks ago at a great price. Same guy had a pair of Unisaw wings--i'm pretty sure he's the one that beat me to an old Unisaw sold by an art school in the St Joseph area. Hated missing that one.
> 
> earl


Okay, so here are some photos of my saw, Craftsman Model 137.248760 as it exists right now. 

The Fence I am leaning toward is the Vega Utility 26 Model from Rockler. 
One of the reasons I am leaning toward this fence is that a lot of the excellent reviews were written by guys who said they had mounted this fence on older Craftsman saws like mine. I'm hoping that means I will able to do likewise.


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Does that front rail come off the saw or it a cast part of the table?Could be a problem if it does not come off


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

al m said:


> Does that front rail come off the saw or it a cast part of the table?Could be a problem if it does not come off


I just looked at sears parts direct and the front rail does not appear to be a separate piece--made me wonder the same thing. Kind of like the old Ryobi BT3000/BT3100--virtually no way to attach an aftermarket fence on the BT's. 

earl


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## al m (Dec 13, 2012)

Consider this
Sell your saw for whatever you can,take that money and you $300 fence budget and shop for a good solid belt drive contractor saw


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## graycat (Oct 14, 2013)

Nothing wrong with a cheap table saw but good blades are must. Fences can be expensive. I lived with a straight piece of steel stock, a ruler, and two clamps for years. With care you can get excellent accuracy and precision (repeatability). The chief advantage of a good fence is the ease and speed of moving it to set dimensions. If you are not in any particular hurry save your pennies until you can get what you want and in the interim be willing to take your time on set up. 

Peter M (Australia)


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## tooler2 (Aug 11, 2012)

That saw does not warrant an upgraded fence. You just need to set it's fence carefully for every cut and add a clamp if it does not hold it's position. If you are using the saw so much that this is too arduous, buy a real saw. Unisaws start at 50$ these days including a fence because younger people think a new POS is better than an experienced saw.
Rob


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## 64 ford (Apr 21, 2013)

Bryan
My opinion is a little different. I would try to get your money out of your saw. Then, watch school auctions etc. for old cabinet saws they are replacing. They sometimes go for under 500 dollars and will have a good fence and at 44 years old they will last you a life time. They are also very accurate and will probably never need any repairs. You may never need another upgrade. On top of that, they will be worth as much or more in 20 years as they are now. Just be careful that you don't get a Uni-saw with 3 phase power as the motors only work on them and are expensive to change out. Powermatic and I'm sure many others I don't know about can be changed out much cheaper. Good equipment usually cost less in the long run and you'll have less cussing sessions because things aren't as accurate as you want. Just my opinion on how I roll!


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## PAD3 (Oct 20, 2013)

Found table saw with a Biesmeyer fence for $200.00 on Craig's list. Try there.


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

tooler2 said:


> That saw does not warrant an upgraded fence. You just need to set it's fence carefully for every cut and add a clamp if it does not hold it's position. If you are using the saw so much that this is too arduous, buy a real saw. Unisaws start at 50$ these days including a fence because younger people think a new POS is better than an experienced saw.
> Rob


Rob, in light of the observations by others that I wouldn't be able to add an aftermarket fence because the front rail of my saw can't be removed, and after doing some more research on other options, I agree with you that buying an expensive fence for my saw isn't warranted at this point. 

I have tried using a clamp to hold my existing fence in place. The problem is, because of the way the underside of the saw deck is made, there are quite a few places where it's very difficult to put a clamp and have it hold. 

I did in fact by my saw used. I know it's not as high-performance, versatile or durable as many more expensive saws, but I wouldn't consider it a "POS"; not the whole saw, anyway, just the fence. The saw itself has been doing just fine other than the fence issue. I don't have any illusions about building fine furniture with it, but those kinds of projects are quite a way down the road for me anyway. All I need is to be able to get reliably accurate, straight cuts out of the Craftsman without having to do 5 minutes of set-up between each cut, and I'll be good to go for a long time, I think. 

Based on all the responses I've received to my initial post--and I want to say "thanks" again to everyone; you've all been very helpful--I think my immediate plan is to attempt a table saw cabinet and fence build that forum member vindaloo posted in this thread (special thanks! to vindaloo for that, btw). In the meantime, I will be socking away what I can in the new saw fund so that, when the right deal presents itself, I can pounce on it. At least now I have a much better idea what to look for vis a vis rip fences and table saws in general. 

Thanks again to all who replied, and have a great rest of the week. 

Bryan


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## tooler2 (Aug 11, 2012)

I have a bunch off industrial table saws and even I keep a few unisaws around, they are decent machines and the last one I bought was 70$ including a serviceable fence and 3hp single phase motor. You do realize you can screw a rail to the right side of your fence and have it protrude over the back of the table where you could put a clamp? If you attach a false fence on the left of the fence you can make it just long enough to get past the front of the blade. You may find it easier to get an acceptable adjustment with the short fence.
Rob


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## richjh (Jan 14, 2013)

Bryan, Take a look at the Jet JPSF-1 ProShop Fence Assembly. I have this fence on my Jet hybrid cabinet saw and it works great. I saw just the fence at Rockler for $178 +$25 shipping and a guy selling a new one on the Denver Craigslist for $150. This fence is solid and the rails are made to mount on just about any saw.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

woodpig said:


> Based on all the responses I've received to my initial post--and I want to say "thanks" again to everyone; you've all been very helpful--I think my immediate plan is to attempt a table saw cabinet and fence build that forum member vindaloo posted in this thread (special thanks! to vindaloo for that, btw). In the meantime, I will be socking away what I can in the new saw fund so that, when the right deal presents itself, I can pounce on it. At least now I have a much better idea what to look for vis a vis rip fences and table saws in general.
> 
> Thanks again to all who replied, and have a great rest of the week.
> 
> Bryan


One final thought Bryan--triggered by your plan to build a cabinet--a side table may actually open the door to using an Incra positioner (the router table style, no rails). The base is bolted in fixed position, like on your extension table. The rail package and carriage for table saw could be added later. Rails for the Incra are used pretty much only to hold the fence down, not to locate it--and the hold-down could be accomplished with cam clamps in the bottom slot of the fence extrusion. (shoot--i have to run out to make sure there is a slot in the bottom!!) LS systems are much easier to find on auction sites than TS-LS systems. Just a thought, not meant to muddy your mind!!

earl


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

greenacres2 said:


> One final thought Bryan--triggered by your plan to build a cabinet--a side table may actually open the door to using an Incra positioner (the router table style, no rails). The base is bolted in fixed position, like on your extension table. The rail package and carriage for table saw could be added later. Rails for the Incra are used pretty much only to hold the fence down, not to locate it--and the hold-down could be accomplished with cam clamps in the bottom slot of the fence extrusion. (shoot--i have to run out to make sure there is a slot in the bottom!!) LS systems are much easier to find on auction sites than TS-LS systems. Just a thought, not meant to muddy your mind!!
> 
> earl


Earl, thanks for letting me know about this, it sounds like an option worth looking into. I'm not familiar with the Incra positioner, so I'll have to do a little research, but I enjoy that, too, so no worries! Learning new stuff and new ways to skin a cat is half the fun of this hobby.


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Actually--looking at the Incra TS-LS 32", if you're building a table anyway and the table is 27" deep--the rails from the table saw version could be attached to the table and maybe only one attachment point set to the saw itself. Then--when you do swap saws, the Incra system stays with you for the next saw. Looking at the pricing on the 25" router table version compared to the 32" table saw version--the table saw version would make a lot more sense long term. The link to Incra's web site is: INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence - 32" Range, but these turn up on e-bay and CL at times. Okay, rarely on CL. And sometimes the money on e-bay gets stupid. But used can be found with patience.

I'd invite you down to La Porte, IN this Saturday to have a look in person, but:
A. it's Valentine's day.
B. predicted single digit temps in an unheated garage.
C. it's Valentine's day.
D. I'm supposed to go to Indianapolis for a meeting at the speedway
E. it's Valentine's day.
F. the Speedway thing already isn't being taken well, because...
G. did i mention it's Valentine's day??

Enjoy your research!!
earl


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## woodpig (Nov 25, 2014)

greenacres2 said:


> Actually--looking at the Incra TS-LS 32", if you're building a table anyway and the table is 27" deep--the rails from the table saw version could be attached to the table and maybe only one attachment point set to the saw itself. Then--when you do swap saws, the Incra system stays with you for the next saw. Looking at the pricing on the 25" router table version compared to the 32" table saw version--the table saw version would make a lot more sense long term. The link to Incra's web site is: INCRA TS-LS Table Saw Fence - 32" Range, but these turn up on e-bay and CL at times. Okay, rarely on CL. And sometimes the money on e-bay gets stupid. But used can be found with patience.
> 
> I'd invite you down to La Porte, IN this Saturday to have a look in person, but:
> A. it's Valentine's day.
> ...


Earl, you are a gentleman and scholar.  I appreciate the potential invite, but you give excellent reasons to put off such a meeting until after Valentine's Day (and thanks for the reminder about that, by the way!) Have fun at stay warm at the speedway! 

Bryan


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## greenacres2 (Dec 23, 2011)

Not a problem--it's always fun and since it's our last instructors meeting before training weekend in March, we'll be in the safety office working on logistics. It will start warm, then at some point it will get heated, but we'll end all warm & fuzzy!! The only downside is that the water still won't have been turned on so we each have to bring our own coffee and then figure out what to do with it 30 minutes after we drink it!!

earl


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

Okay- You guys know I have a few table saws. The panel saw, the Rockwell shop saw... and my jobsite saw. My other 2 mentioned saws are just to heavy to be even remotely as portable. (The panel saw is over 1300 lbs.) 

The jobsite saw is just that, light and portable. Jobsite use. Gets packed up to go anywhere int the back of my pickup. In my pickup or locked up in a job box at night. 

Just like was mentioned, my jobsite saw is a Ryobi BT100, with an integral front rail. The trick with those fences, is to adjust the hook that goes over the rear of the saw. That is what keeps it tight and steady when locked.

I do tune that saw, and it cuts true.. Although I do have to adjust it more often than my other saws. Agreed that a tune and good blades go a long way.


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## RMIGHTY1 (Nov 5, 2014)

Hey Bryan, just some thoughts. There are youtube videos featuring all wooden home made fences. Just search for, "home made wooden table saw fences" on youtube.

Also, I saw a new Rigid compact table saw with a 4.6 star rating at home depot for $199. Comes with a lifetime warranty if you register the product. You can register directly from the HD page.

RIDGID 15-Amp 10 in. Compact Table Saw-R45161 - The Home Depot

Of curse, Ryobi is cheaper at $129 but only has a 3.8 star rating.

Read the reviews on the Rigid before you decide.

Cheers!!!


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## wanz (Dec 22, 2010)

I bought a Delta 36-725 at 599 from Lowes. It is a decent saw with a nice fence too. Do a search and see if it fits your needs and budget.


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## JIMMIEM (Apr 4, 2010)

*Table Saw Fence*

I bought a Delta fence too. I paid $125 for it and had to drill the rails to fit my old Sears Contractor saw.....but it is really accurate. I added PALS for blade alignment and accuracy is very good/excellent.


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## dask (Dec 24, 2011)

I also have a few of the model 113 Emerson/Craftsman table saws and when I find the time will build my own Beismeyer fence system...but until then I did a modification on my fence which was simple and fast and consistently holds true alignment to the fence. I just drilled and used a 1/8 inch tap then inserted a screw and nut. 
I will insert pic later...having issues with photobucket.
here's a link...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...psbcbdwzi4_edit_1424193438373_zpscojtjj4v.jpg


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