# Vibration in brand new Metabo!?



## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

First post. I finally pulled the trigger on a nice router. I had to shiplap and build a 14ft floor for my camper.

The router is a brand new Metabo KM12VC.

From the first time I turned it on, there was a slight vibration at the spindle. It's not crazy, but it's there. When I was shiplapping with my 2.25 inch 4 winged bit, you could really feel it. 

So, is that normal in routers to have a slight vibration? I'm imaging it's supposed to be like a cnc spindle with <0.001" runout. Is that accurate?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello and welcome to forums N/A...

just in case, let's get you started on some of the how to's..
we put together a touch of education over *here at this link*...
enjoy....

is the vibration there w/ or w/o a bit in it???...
before or after the shiplapping???...

of course we need to know how large are the shiplaps, how many passed you made to get there and what species of material???
what's the make and model of bit you used???


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

The vibrations are without and with a bit. The actual chuck vibrates a small amount. I've not put a marker on it to see the high spot yet, but it vibrates the tip of my finger when I put the tip on the shaft.

The bit is an Amana Tool 45527 Carbide Tipped shiplap and flattening bit. The vibration happens with and without this bit and another diamond fiberglass cutting bit.

The cut is half of a 3/4" thickness plywood sheet. I did it in one pass for depth and 4ft x 6 inches. It actually turned out great for not using a whole table setup, but the vibration was before this procedure.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I would suspect the bearing..
and what you are feeling is runout...
warranty the unit..
the chuck is called a collet...
are you using a muscle chuck???

you gonna tell us who you are and where yur from???...
or do we keep calling you N/A???


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

The runout is not crazy but it's there. I'll call the company on Monday. I'm fron Clarksville TN.

How disappointing. Metabo is supposed to be better then this.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MetaBOW said:


> The runout is not crazy but it's there. I'll call the company on Monday. I'm fron Clarksville TN.
> 
> How disappointing. Metabo is supposed to be better then this.


Metabo when they were German were some serious industrial tools...

Hitachi acquired the German Metabo Tool Company some time back (2016) and went Asian...
and then Hitachi Power Tools changed it's name to Metabo HPT...
in 2017 that whole mess was sucked up by a Chinese holding company (KKR)...

ditch the Metabo and go w/ a *reconditioned Bosch 1617EVSPK....*

BTW.. do you still wish to be known as N/A???


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have 3 Hitachis and love all three. I also have a Metabo jig saw that's 20 years old at least. It is a step above the rest of the market. Your router shouldn't be doing that.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I have 3 Hitachis and love all three. I also have a Metabo jig saw that's 20 years old at least. It is a step above the rest of the market. Your router shouldn't be doing that.


his router isn't the old real deal Metabo any more...
I have older than old Metabos, outstanding tools and bullet proof...
wanna bet he's dealing w/ those infamous Chinese bearings here too???


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Well, I initiated a return. I was hoping the metabo was still quality like some of their other products, but not so. I almost bought a festool, but didn't since the reviews were so mixed.

Is there a router out there that's got cnc spec runout? I'd like to have both sides of my bit cut material and not agrevate my carpet tunnels!


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MetaBOW said:


> Well, I initiated a return. I was hoping the Metabo was still quality like some of their other products, but not so. I almost bought a Festool, but didn't since the reviews were so mixed.
> 
> Is there a router out there that's got cnc spec runout? I'd like to have both sides of my bit cut material and not aggravate my carpet tunnels!


will you be putting it in a table, CNC or using it free hand???...

*I'm real partial to Bosch...*
PC isn't what it use to be.. not since they were bought up and went Asian...
My Bosch outlasted my DeWalts by a long margin...
I have Makita...

So, if you were to buy an all around router...
1... what would you look for in a router...
2... What is your favorite router...
3... Why...
*
Picking out a tool(s)...*
1st and most important item, look to the company...
evaluate their CS/TS, will they step up to the plate should there be any issues...
look to see if they have a planned obsolesce program in force...
there's no sense in buying something that can't be fixed in a few years or parts to be had...
what will the company and their product do for me...
figure out if they will respect you in the morning... 

*Next the product...*
is it quality???...
will it have a long productive life???...
will it do more than I need it to. Go the extra mile and not complain or break???....
is it a good value???...
will it protect/accent my bottom line???...
will it go/be obsolete or become disposable in short order...
after the purchase; will there be intangible costs connected to it???
tools that don't cut the mustard, suffer down time, hurt production and the bottom line need to left on the store's shelf...
*
Online reviews...*
not too much...
read a few too many that my *VOE* said other wise...
I prefer to use and abuse different brands and evaluate them myself and I pay attention at large job sites as to who has what and what, if any, issues they are having......
the testers should eval a tool and then put it in production mode for a few years and then do another eval..

VOE says Bosch fills the bill and then some...
2nd to none CS/TS and support...
Their tools are real work horses...
and they last, (they give the Energizer Bunny a complex) for a long time...
most importantly, they protect the bottom line...
planned obsolesce isn't an issue w/ Bosch as it is w/ so many other manufactures and come w/ al lot less grief... 
their tools last, even for decades after hard heavy use..
they make tools that protect your bottom line which makes them a very good investment... 
what's not to like???...
Besides being comfortable to use routers, they are feature rich, have excellent bullet proof soft start, finite depth adjustment, quality collets, and so much more... 
I think and believe Bosch to be an excellent outstanding company w/ superb products come routers... 

Keep in mind, that saving some money now just may cost you a lot more down the road... So, do yourself a huge favor and get Bosch...
Bosch consistently scores high in/on all categories of quality, CS/TS, reliability and support, and they are as close as a phone call and your mail box


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MetaBOW said:


> I'd like to have b_oth sides of my bit cut_ material!



simultaneously???
what exactly are you doing???

let's get you started on the how to's.....
we put together a touch of education over *here at this link*...


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm also a fan of Bosch, in particular the 1617 in the kit. You should not feel any significant vibration in a new router. A reconditioned Bosch when available is as good as a new one, but costs a little less.


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## sreilly (May 22, 2018)

Bosch is indeed popular. I have 3 of them including my trim router (Colt). Welcome aboard Tennessee.


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## Bstrom (Jan 2, 2020)

There is a Setup video on the Musclechuck website to determine how to position their Chuck with the least amount of runout - dunno if that can be applied to normal collets (doubt it) but this isn’t worth tolerating if your can exchange or return the unit. And yes, Bosch is Boss among routers...


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> simultaneously???
> what exactly are you doing???
> 
> let's get you started on the how to's.....
> we put together a touch of education over *here at this link*...


Before you get to insulting my intelligence, read what you wrote man. How can a bit cut with both sides simultaneously?? Think about what I said. If a cutting head of a bit if protruding further out than the other(s) due to a wobble, that single cutting edge would do the cutting while the other(s) would barely cut or not even graze the material depending on how hard you're pushing (feed rate). So, by my saying one side it clean and only one side is cutting, you know both my feed rate is slow enough to not have the negative side of the runout doing much work and the runout is enough for there to be this type of problem. Don't be too judgy too quick bud, I'm new to the forum, not working with machines.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> MetaBOW said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I initiated a return. I was hoping the Metabo was still quality like some of their other products, but not so. I almost bought a Festool, but didn't since the reviews were so mixed.
> ...


Well written!

I don't use routers daily, but I've got a few projects coming up that I need one for, and one I decided to get one I suddenly found many more projects! That said, I don't generally buy junk tools. I like to buy quality so when I use it next I won't be annoyed with myself for buying something cheap. I've done that when I was younger, once, and swore never again. It's also been a long time since I've been on a job site now that I got my 2nd degree and am in the medical field. 

Most of my other tools are ingersoll rand, Milwaukee, knipex, jet, festool etc. I have a bosch jigsaw and it is surprisingly good. It's not a mafel, but it's also not close to $1k. Is great for what it is.

I don't mind going with the braintrust on this forum and buying a bosch. There was a link to a reconditioned unit up top. Is that the general consensus winner of the router world?

It will be free hand and a table when I build one. As for CNC, maybe but I doubt it. I need to buy a small home tabletop mill, but that's some time off. My wife let's me buy (expensive) tools when their use justifies their expense, ie I can do it with the tool and material for cheaper or close to the cost of hiring it out.


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## Danman1957 (Mar 14, 2009)

Welcome aboard MetaBow,

I also like the Bosch 1617 and bought the kit that includes both plunge and fixed base. 

Stick, thanks for the Metabo clarification. I also was under the impression that they were HIGH END tools.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Danman1957 said:


> Welcome aboard MetaBow,
> 
> I also like the Bosch 1617 and bought the kit that includes both plunge and fixed base.
> 
> Stick, thanks for the Metabo clarification. I also was under the impression that they were HIGH END tools.


Thank man! I was under the same impression. My dad loves metabo and the ones he has are very HQ. Mostly grinders and the like.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

MetaBOW said:


> Before you get to insulting my intelligence, read what you wrote man. How can a bit cut with both sides simultaneously?? Think about what I said. If a cutting head of a bit if protruding further out than the other(s) due to a wobble, that single cutting edge would do the cutting while the other(s) would barely cut or not even graze the material depending on how hard you're pushing (feed rate). So, by my saying one side it clean and only one side is cutting, you know both my feed rate is slow enough to not have the negative side of the runout doing much work and the runout is enough for there to be this type of problem. Don't be too judgy too quick bud, I'm new to the forum, not working with machines.


I apologize...


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> MetaBOW said:
> 
> 
> > Before you get to insulting my intelligence, read what you wrote man. How can a bit cut with both sides simultaneously?? Think about what I said. If a cutting head of a bit if protruding further out than the other(s) due to a wobble, that single cutting edge would do the cutting while the other(s) would barely cut or not even graze the material depending on how hard you're pushing (feed rate). So, by my saying one side it clean and only one side is cutting, you know both my feed rate is slow enough to not have the negative side of the runout doing much work and the runout is enough for there to be this type of problem. Don't be too judgy too quick bud, I'm new to the forum, not working with machines.
> ...


No worries. I get underestimated occasionally in new forums. I'd rather be underestimated and over deliver then the other way around.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

I bought the Metabo KM12VC to use either as the dedicated Router Table router or for the 2nd general routing router. Wanted to decide that once I got it, either way have 2 routers for general routing and 1 in the table.

I wish I would have seen this You Tube review for I bought it 



 at 10:30 minutes in he points out the 2 problems with the plunge which should have been caught by the manufacturer before mass production.

Problem #1 the dust/chip shield contacts the housing when plunged.

Problem #2 the fine adjustment knob/rod catches the router on the way up from a plunge (11:30 in)

I was still thinking about using it as the RT router as the motor was smooth and had low noise but when I went to take off the base plate they had screwed the screws on so tight that the heads were stripping trying to loosen them. Back in its case it went.

Good luck with the Bosch


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

what a shame...should not happen with a high-named brand...the problems noted definitely should have been caught going from test bed to production...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have an M12VC that is just fixed base and it is a joy to use. I thought the K models were older but this video is from 2017 so maybe when they merged with Metabo they resurrected the old model numbers. But then it also has a Hitachi nameplate instead of Metabo which is what I see the new ones with. He talks about wishing that the base was just plastic without the adapter ring for guides. The drawback with that is you only have a 1 3/16" opening without it. Not sure why he didn't think of that. He seems to really fight with the idea that the router locks when you let go of the lock lever instead of locking when you push it over like my M12V and M12V2 do. My little DeWalt 611 also locks when you release so that really isn't a fault, it's just different. I have to wonder if that was part of his plunging problem. As to the chip shield I went to Youtube where the vid came from and others with it said that they either didn't have problems with the dust shield or easily fixed it. It's possible that the specs on the manufacture weren't tight enough but I don't see that as a game changer. A Sears router I had many years ago had one of those and after a bit of use it became unusable anyway between being both dirty and scratched from chips hitting it.

New member M00sie recently offered to send parts from his 2 M12Vs to anyone needing them so I decided to check to see what parts are not available anymore as that is a good indication of what went wrong with them. The only 2 parts of consequence not available were the armature and plunge base. Paul said that both bases were already spoken for to guys who had dropped theirs so that was understandable. That's a user defect and not a manufacturer's defect. Some guys tend to push machines harder than they should and that's hard on armatures so that isn't a surprise that they weren't available either. The M12V has the best collet I've ever used and even they are still available but a little pricey. So why I wondered are so many parts still available for a router that is already 2 models out of production and the obvious answer is no one has ever needed them. Just out of curiosity I went to CPO's site to see how many Hitachi recons they have for sale and there were only 9 and not one was a router. There were 130 Bosch tools available as recons.

A year ago I managed to find a cheap deal on a 12mm collet for my V2 model as I have a few 12mm shank bits I want to run which I got a smoking deal on. It came with a 1/2" collet as part of the deal. The 1/2" runs nice and smooth but the 12mm has a bit of vibration to it, nothing I can't live with for the limited use it will see but I can feel it. I wonder if the vibration in the new Metabo might be that instead of the other causes listed?


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I have an M12VC that is just fixed base and it is a joy to use. I thought the K models were older but this video is from 2017 so maybe when they merged with Metabo they resurrected the old model numbers. But then it also has a Hitachi nameplate instead of Metabo


Truthfully I don't know. My experience tells me that kind of regular wobble is due to a out of round inner bearing ring (cheap bearing). I also thought maybe the collet/shaft etc wasn't true, but that wouldn't make sense as the bits in use AND outter edge of the shaft are out of round.

I see what you're saying about plenty of parts left, but this unit is problematic. After hearing that it's been purchased and run by Chinese manufacturers from the original German manufacturers doesn't inspire confidence in keeping the unit or fixing it myself. The numbers for reman bosch might also be the the market share v metabo. I'd bet it's 1:500 metabo to bosch routers.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

The merger is too new to say for sure. As for the mix between Hitachi and Bosch I can't say for sure. I keep finding out that many other members here have one. This forum was started by the son/grandson of the Rosendahl's that had the Router Workshop show on PBS back when New Yankee Workshop was also on and the Rosendahls used M12Vs on the show. Either way, the numbers I gave about the recons also shows that EVERY manufacturer has units that fail and some are likely from brand new. Yours could be one of those. If you go and replace that Metabo with a Bosch it could easily be one too.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The merger is too new to say for sure. As for the mix between Hitachi and Bosch I can't say for sure. I keep finding out that many other members here have one. This forum was started by the son/grandson of the Rosendahl's that had the Router Workshop show on PBS back when New Yankee Workshop was also on and the Rosendahls used M12Vs on the show. Either way, the numbers I gave about the recons also shows that EVERY manufacturer has units that fail and some are likely from brand new. Yours could be one of those. If you go and replace that Metabo with a Bosch it could easily be one too.


the OP's model is discontinued....
*https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-navigation/item/KM12VC*


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

MetaBOW said:


> Truthfully I don't know. My experience tells me that kind of regular wobble is due to a out of round inner bearing ring (cheap bearing). *I also thought maybe the collet/shaft etc wasn't true, but that wouldn't make sense as the bits in use AND outer edge of the shaft are out of round.*
> 
> I see what you're saying about plenty of parts left, but this unit is problematic. After hearing that it's been purchased and run by Chinese manufacturers from the original German manufacturers doesn't inspire confidence in keeping the unit or fixing it myself. The numbers for reman bosch might also be the the market share v metabo. I'd bet it's 1:500 metabo to bosch routers.



Just for clarification, when you say "out of round", do you mean the shaft itself is machined out of round or it still vibrates without the collet...?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> the OP's model is discontinued....
> *https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-navigation/item/KM12VC*


Not according to Metabo HPT it isn't. https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-...-guns&title=Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat Guns According to them my M12V2 is still available for $280 US. I might have to get another one. I hate the thought of mine dying and not being able to replace it. It looks like the K in front of the M12VC might mean kit.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Not according to Metabo HPT it isn't. https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-...-guns&title=Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat Guns According to them my M12V2 is still available for $280 US. I might have to get another one. I hate the thought of mine dying and not being able to replace it. It looks like the K in front of the M12VC might mean kit.


the Metabo KM12VC is discontinued per the link I posted...

.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Nickp said:


> MetaBOW said:
> 
> 
> > Truthfully I don't know. My experience tells me that kind of regular wobble is due to a out of round inner bearing ring (cheap bearing). *I also thought maybe the collet/shaft etc wasn't true, but that wouldn't make sense as the bits in use AND outer edge of the shaft are out of round.*
> ...


I mean the shaft itself vibrates. Are you thinking the shaft itself was machined out of round? I'm leaning towards a wonky bearing.


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

MetaBOW said:


> I mean the shaft itself vibrates. Are you thinking the shaft itself was machined out of round? I'm leaning towards a wonky bearing.



No...was just clarifying on you commenting on "out of round" in your post...

I agree...I'd vote on the bearing...

With the motor not spinning, can you feel any side to side movement in the shaft...? That would certainly point to the bearing...

Just for grinsies, you could put a dial indicator on the shaft and rotate it by hand...

In any event you have a bad one and a choice as to whether to exchange, refund or buy a different router...

Sorry to hear of the problems with a new router...

Good luck...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> the Metabo KM12VC is discontinued per the link I posted...
> 
> .


I couldn't find that page. Available at Acme Tools for $164 for the kit. https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/metabo-hpt-km12vcm CPO says it's temporarily out of stock. Tool Marts says $224 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...s?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1567537253&sr=8-6 A Lowe's near my Brother in Birmingham also has it for $164 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-2-...Speed-Fixed-Plunge-Base-Router-Kit/1001848604


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I couldn't find that page. Available at Acme Tools for $164 for the kit. https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/metabo-hpt-km12vcm CPO says it's temporarily out of stock. Tool Marts says $224 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...s?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1567537253&sr=8-6 A Lowe's near my Brother in Birmingham also has it for $164 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-2-...Speed-Fixed-Plunge-Base-Router-Kit/1001848604


north of the border website vs south of the border????
if it's for sale or in stock in a store that may just mean it's their on hand stock...
since the site I found said discontinued - once they're gone they're gone...


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> *I couldn't find that page.* Available at Acme Tools for $164 for the kit. https://www.acmetools.com/shop/tools/metabo-hpt-km12vcm CPO says it's temporarily out of stock. Tool Marts says $224 https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-lis...s?ie=UTF8&condition=all&qid=1567537253&sr=8-6 A Lowe's near my Brother in Birmingham also has it for $164 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hitachi-2-...Speed-Fixed-Plunge-Base-Router-Kit/1001848604



It's probably a Colorado thing...they're different there ya know... :grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> It's probably a Colorado thing...they're different there ya know... :grin:


class all our own....


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Stick486 said:


> north of the border website vs south of the border????
> if it's for sale or in stock in a store that may just mean it's their on hand stock...
> since the site I found said discontinued - once they're gone they're gone...


I looked on Metabo HPT site. Clicked on the kit and clicked on where to buy it. All those sites I listed are US sites, not up here. There is no model on the router home page to replace it and if it's discontinued makers usually show the new model there too. After you posted that first time I went back and looked to see if I could find it and I couldn't find that link. Did you go to the Canadian site instead?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I looked on Metabo HPT site. Clicked on the kit and clicked on where to buy it. All those sites I listed are US sites, not up here. There is no model on the router home page to replace it and if it's discontinued makers usually show the new model there too. After you posted that first time I went back and looked to see if I could find it and I couldn't find that link. Did you go to the Canadian site instead?


U.S.A site...
I posted a screen shot of the site...
where deoes my link take you???


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

When I clicked on Stick's link I get the same "discontinued" page... https://www.metabo-hpt.com/us/main-navigation/item/KM12VC


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

@Nickp...
did you forget to turn on your bilge pumps???
she looking like a low rider....


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> @Nickp...
> did you forget to turn on your bilge pumps???
> she looking like a low rider....



2100lbs of fuel might do that... The Universal Law of Mass...more mass in the boat, less mass in the wallet...:grin:


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Nickp said:


> 2100lbs of fuel might do that... The Universal Law of Mass...more mass in the boat, less mass in the wallet...:grin:


that hole in the water ya throw money into thing.. eh...


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I've been to Metabo's site at least 4 times now. Click on Tools. Click on Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat guns. Click on the KM12VC kit and it asks whether I want to find a retailer or buy online. I have no idea how you're finding the discontinued screen. Plus not one of the places I checked for one said it was a discontinued model and they often will say that. Only conclusion I come up with is they like to screw with guys who continuously recommend Bosch routers.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

When I click on Sticks link I get a yellow screen with a ghost router in it, says discontinued.
Herb


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## Nickp (Dec 4, 2012)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've been to Metabo's site at least 4 times now. Click on Tools. Click on Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat guns. Click on the KM12VC kit and it asks whether I want to find a retailer or buy online. I have no idea how you're finding the discontinued screen. Plus not one of the places I checked for one said it was a discontinued model and they often will say that. Only conclusion I come up with is *they like to screw with guys who continuously recommend Bosch routers*.



This is definitely worthy of a "LMAO" button...:grin::grin::grin:


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

Stick486 said:


> I apologize...


Stick, the OP’s snarky reply, which indeed included the “cut with both sides of the bit” comment that also caught my attention, is pretty ironic because he clearly did not re-read his very comment that he told you to go re-read. 😂


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## Straightlines (May 15, 2013)

What is the forum’s consensus on the big Triton?


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Straightlines said:


> Stick, the OP’s snarky reply, which indeed included the “cut with both sides of the bit” comment that also caught my attention, is pretty ironic because he clearly did not re-read his very comment that he told you to go re-read. 😂


let it ride...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've been to Metabo's site at least 4 times now. Click on Tools. Click on Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat guns. Click on the KM12VC kit and it asks whether I want to find a retailer or buy online. I have no idea how you're finding the discontinued screen. Plus not one of the places I checked for one said it was a discontinued model and they often will say that.* Only conclusion I come up with is they like to screw with guys who continuously recommend Bosch routers.*


is this your doing????


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've been to Metabo's site at least 4 times now. Click on Tools. Click on Routers/Sanders/Planers/Heat guns. Click on the KM12VC kit and it asks whether I want to find a retailer or buy online. I have no idea how you're finding the discontinued screen. Plus not one of the places I checked for one said it was a discontinued model and they often will say that..


I still show it as discontinued...
go figure...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I think it is a Colorado thing.
just saying,
Herb


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Straightlines said:


> What is the forum’s consensus on the big Triton?


It consistently scores high marks among our members as a table router. Too top heavy to be a good handheld plunge router is also the consensus. One issue that has just surfaced though is that it's collet doesn't want to grip 1/4" bits securely. Change it to a Musclechuck and you have that problem fixed and the Musclechuck will make you a happy camper because of it being easier to use anyway.


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## sonnywiehe (Mar 4, 2011)

How about this idea: If your interested in a Metabo power tool as a result of this thread, why not try contacting the manufacturer to see if the tool is discontinued (or planning to be) rather than checking various retailers whose interest in the product is generally third party? Seems that while it may be a more difficult or time consuming, it might be a more definitive approach.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Straightlines said:


> What is the forum’s consensus on the big Triton?


Just bought it online with the Kreg PRS4034 Router Table Insert Plate. If it's as good as the reviews I will be thrilled. No tax or shipping at Max Tools. I need to get busy as I plan to add it to the table saw wing yet to be made.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Straightlines said:


> Stick486 said:
> 
> 
> > I apologize...
> ...


Hey bud. If you have a 2 or 4 edged bit and 50% of it is cutting due to runout, how would you say it up there on your soap box? I'd say the exact same thing I said. Half of the bit is cutting and not both sides - as in 100% of the edges cutting equally. I'm not being snarky, I'm being an ass - to you. You comment is junk. I said what I said and I meant what I said. I'm sorry you're capability of concept extraction didn't catch the above.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Metabow we don`t allow replies like that. Be more polite with your comments, it`s the rule here and it gets enforced.

When you made the comment in post 9 about both sides cutting I wasn`t certain what you meant either. What you described later (post 15) had nothing to do with cutting on both sides, it had to with each cutting edge making equal contact if the router had a run out problem. Your original wording described something entirely different than that. And if you had filled out your profile as the forum requests when you sign up we would have known that you have experience so that is on you.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Metabow we don`t allow replies like that. Be more polite with your comments, it`s the rule here and it gets enforced.
> 
> When you made the comment in post 9 about both sides cutting I wasn`t certain what you meant either. What you described later (post 15) had nothing to do with cutting on both sides, it had to with each cutting edge making equal contact if the router had a run out problem. Your original wording described something entirely different than that. And if you had filled out your profile as the forum requests when you sign up we would have known that you have experience so that is on you.


a bit is round...
I understand that at any given time, a maximum of 50% of the bit is engaged in cutting..
so I was looking for clarification/understanding and it went sideways...

let it ride...


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Metabow we don`t allow replies like that. Be more polite with your comments, it`s the rule here and it gets enforced.
> 
> When you made the comment in post 9 about both sides cutting I wasn`t certain what you meant either. What you described later (post 15) had nothing to do with cutting on both sides, it had to with each cutting edge making equal contact if the router had a run out problem. Your original wording described something entirely different than that. And if you had filled out your profile as the forum requests when you sign up we would have known that you have experience so that is on you.


I'm not looking for this to be an issue, but I must ask why my reply to sticks comment gets reprimanded when sticks comment is also rude? Is his level of rudeness allowed v my retort because I'm newer or have less posts? Or is it that defending myself from his type of comment isn't allowed? Like when a kid gets slapped and slaps back, but then gets in trouble himself - new age justice kind of thing.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Stick486 said:


> Cherryville Chuck said:
> 
> 
> > Metabow we don`t allow replies like that. Be more polite with your comments, it`s the rule here and it gets enforced.
> ...


Sir, your response was rude and condescending.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Specifically what part in which post do you think was rude? I saw his response as trying to clarify what it was that you were doing and as I said I didn`t know what you meant either and the way the comment was worded had nothing to do with run out which made it more confusing since that was your issue. If he hadn`t asked what you meant I was going to.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> Specifically what part in which post do you think was rude? I saw his response as trying to clarify what it was that you were doing and as I said I didn`t know what you meant either and the way the comment was worded had nothing to do with run out which made it more confusing since that was your issue. If he hadn`t asked what you meant I was going to.


The initial response asking me to clarify was not rude, though I may have been more catty in my reply than needed. The rude reply was the one I replied to and was reprimanded for.

Either way, the information after that was good and much appreciated. We can keep hashing this out, but I did want to at least say (before I'm kicked out) that I have the Bosch 1617 on order and have returned the metabo. I'm hoping it is everything everyone says it is. I have to build a walnut work desk, mini babies room and new bed frame in my 5th wheel.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

You aren't going to get kicked out unless you continue making derogatory posts about other members. The Boschs are good but as I pointed out earlier everyone has failures. I often see recons graded from A to C. One that is C grade has scratches and nicks and was obviously used for a while before it went bad. Others may have been bad from the start just like your Metabo was.


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## MetaBOW (Apr 18, 2020)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> You aren't going to get kicked out unless you continue making derogatory posts about other members. The Boschs are good but as I pointed out earlier everyone has failures. I often see recons graded from A to C. One that is C grade has scratches and nicks and was obviously used for a while before it went bad. Others may have been bad from the start just like your Metabo was.


I'm not particularly keen on living at the edge of getting booted if I make a mistake and am too mean or call someone out on their rudeness (as I had already been reprimanded for). I will take my leave at this point. Thank you for all the router related input. I'm hoping the 1617 will be better than the metabo.


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## Marco (Feb 21, 2009)

Thank God that P#$#%%$ contest is over. 0


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

That's too bad Metabow if you are here long enough to read this. I'll point out to you again that it all started when you thought that you were being insulted because a member made a reply that insinuated that you might be a rookie. Frankly I thought so too for two reasons. 
One is that you failed to fill out anything in your bio that would have told us otherwise. That often is the case with newbies, maybe because they feel intimidated or embarrassed by that fact.
Two is that when you described something that you thought might be happening because you believed that your router was running out of round and you used terminology that described something entirely different that what you meant. That's also something common to new users who aren't really familiar with the tool. 

Then you you made rude comments to the member who offered you the type of information that is usually helpful to new users. So if you want to see who is at fault here I suggest you go look in the mirror. No comments were made to you that weren't meant to be helpful. If you assume that everyone is out to get you then you probably should leave. But if you want to get over your case of butt hurt then stick around. We are only too happy to help when you need it as long as you are willing to be respectful even when you don't agree with the advice.


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