# Nail Slot Floor Bits



## ScottM80 (Jun 17, 2013)

How important are nail slot bits? I'm looking for a flooring bit matching set, wedge tongue, with a nailslot. I'm having a really hard time locating it at a reasonable price. I have found some without nailslots but never all together.

I guess I should mention the project, soft maple flooring, 320 sq ft.

Links and tips greatly appreciated.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

Scott,

Hardwood floor installation requires the nail to be a "cut" type nail. The nail must be driven thru the top edge of the tonge at a 45 degree angle. the flooring boards are tonge on 2 edges and groove on 2 edges to completely key all the boards to each other. The boards are kept from cupping by two 1/8" deep grooves milled down the length of each floor board. I would recommend using the mechanical tool called "porta nail". The nails they use will not split the wood as a regular nail will. when you strike the tool to drive the nail it also tightens the board for a good tight fit. Pneumatic nailers are popular only because its slightly faster to install a floor...but when you strike it the tool recoils and will not tighten the flooring as good as the mechanical nailer will. One other thing that you may consider and this is very important is the milling of the tonge and groove is a precise measurement from the top of the flooring for the tool the drive the nail directly into the crotch of the tonge so it won't split the tonge. So lets summarize, the nails are cut nails that won't split hardwood, if you want to use 2"finish nails you have two choices...Pre drill the holes for the nail or blunt the point of the nail and hope it works then set the nail with a nail set. The wood must be milled on five faces of the wood. I have attached a manual for the porta nailer, it has a brief guide on how to lay flooring. Also be advised the floor needs a vaper barrier, you can use 15# or 30# felt under the flooring if placed over an crall space. Also the nails are spaced from 10" to 12" apart. Boards should be a staggered arrangement with the ends no closer than 12" from each other. I don't want to discourage you from what is a monumental project given the fact you want to mill your own wood, and I wish you the best of luck.


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## neville9999 (Jul 22, 2010)

Gary that is excellent well written clear advice, NGM


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Great summary, Gary!


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

So to translate Gary's post into what Scott was asking... Highlighting some key points.

- Milling, shaping, routing flooring differs than doing other T&G joints that you create on the router table or shaper. Most of the time (on other t&g joints), what is important is the visual surface so you take the cut with the face surface down, so the faces line up. In flooring, you do the opposite, so the bottom surface is flat... to try to prevent cupping and warping. What is important in flooring is that the bottom surface is even. The top surface can get evened out in sanding.

***Listening to hardwood flooring installers, the biggest battle they have and what haunts them is warping and cupping. Some of this is from moisture changes, thus Gary's mention for the necessity of a moisture barrier.

Some of this is from the natural tendency of wood... adding those nail grooves underneath helps prevent that. I don't know if it's the air space underneath or the extra curves and corners to act like little engineered beams... but it works. I've seen people do it without... it's a gamble. You might get away with it in Texas, where the humidity is very low... 

How much does hardwood flooring move? I was in a custom build. It was at the top of a mountian. The hardwood floor had just been installed and we were in to install baseboard trim... The 3 heaters were off at night and set to come on in the morning. They came on... POP!!!! POP!!! POP!!! 

I hit the deck! I'm telling you, the floor was expanding and the joints were popping for about 20 minutes. That was probably an extreme for wood expansion... But a good example.

You are putting your name on it, your sweat and pride... Why not do something that might prevent you having to redo it later. Milling and creating your own lumber, flooring... by the time you figure in your own time and the cost of tooling... if you had to pay someone to custom create that for you from your wood... well... And yet I and my friends still do it. Why? Because we know what is there and can appreciate it.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MAFoElffen said:


> Some of this is from the natural tendency of wood... adding those nail groove underneath helps prevent that. I don't know if it's the air space underneath or the extra curves and corners to act like little engineered beams... but it works. I've seen people do it without... it's a gamble. You might get away with it in Texas, where the humidity is high...
> 
> 
> 
> I was told by the owner of a local mill that makes T & G flooring that the grooves break the tension in the wood. I've had good results with making grooves with a table saw which is faster and cheaper than using a router. I make them about 1 to 1 1/4" apart and about 1/3 the thickness of the board.


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## Garyk (Dec 29, 2011)

Some Home Depots have the floor nailers that they will "loan" to customers if you buy your flooring from them. If the prices are right that eliminates having to rent one. Most people don't know about HD's loaner program.


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## Willway (Aug 16, 2012)

Harbor Freight has a nailer that that is rated pretty highly. I haver never used one of theirs, but the reviews look good.

Flooring Nailer -- 2-in-1 Flooring Nailer & Flooring Stapler


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## ScottM80 (Jun 17, 2013)

I had it priced out for a mill to do it, but since everything else at the cabin was built by us we decided to keep on that path. The price of parts and tools is more than double the cost of the mill but I think 
the experience will be worth it. I know there is a lot of time and work involved but I'm looking forward to it!

Tonge and groove the ends of the boards also? Dado blade for stress grooves on bottom?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I just used a regular saw blade. The reason for wood warping is that it shrinks more on one side than the other. If you look at the end of a board and follow grain lines, the length of a grain line on one side will be longer than the other. If the longer one swells or shrinks it moves farther than the shorter ones. Just breaking either grain line helps to eliminate the differential and allows a little movement on one side without affecting the other.


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## gmercer_48083 (Jul 18, 2012)

*How to mold your flooring*

Corob CuttersScott,
Check out Corob Molding Cutters. You could use their #40 & #41 moulding knives to create the T&G joint. They also sell other knives that would simplify the grooves on the bottom of each board. See attached link. All edges of each board must be parallel with the opposite face. I recommend a thickness planer, then using a tablesaw with the corob cutters installed along with appropriate feather boards you could mill all the edges but the ends. The ends could be biscuit jointed to solve the end joints prior to installation. The distance from the top of the flooring to the tounge is 1/4" , so you would set that distance from the fence and run all the boards thru the moulding cutters. This way you could still use a porta nailer and it would set the nails into the crotch of the tounge perfectly...remember it uses a barbed cut nail. One other advantage of using the corob cutters is they don't get hot like router bits because they run at a lower rpm on the table saw, and I found they can be lapped easily to sharpen if needed.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

gmercer_48083 said:


> Corob CuttersScott,
> Check out Corob Molding Cutters. You could use their #40 & #41 moulding knives to create the T&G joint. They also sell other knives that would simplify the grooves on the bottom of each board. See attached link. All edges of each board must be parallel with the opposite face. I recommend a thickness planer, then using a tablesaw with the corob cutters installed along with appropriate feather boards you could mill all the edges but the ends. The ends could be biscuit jointed to solve the end joints prior to installation. The distance from the top of the flooring to the tounge is 1/4" , so you would set that distance from the fence and run all the boards thru the moulding cutters. This way you could still use a porta nailer and it would set the nails into the crotch of the tounge perfectly...remember it uses a barbed cut nail. One other advantage of using the corob cutters is they don't get hot like router bits because they run at a lower rpm on the table saw, and I found they can be lapped easily to sharpen if needed.


If using a router, he could use a mortising bit, straight bit, etc...

Gary-
The OP had another thread going asking about T&G sets, so I don't think he's asking about that part of that here.

If he were, Yes , router T&G set, a moulding cutter or shaper head with knives, Table saw with dado set... so many options. Personally, I don't recommend a moulding cutter to someone I don't know of their experience level or their tooling. Many moulding cutters available on Ebay from people that bought one and never used... or one used once of twice and were afraid to use again. 

I own a moulding cutter and I rarely use it. I feel it's a learned skill... and you have to learn that skill to be safe with it. It also requires that you have some guts to your table saw to drive it and get or buy other equipment/features/accessories to be able to use it productively, effectively and safely. Then to use a moulding cutter, they have to have a saw that can use and drive it- an arbor long enough, enough HP. Then there is the cost to get setup. Dado's are cheaper. Albiet, moulding knives are cheaper than shaper knives.

There are safety issues and an experience/learning curve. It would be sort of like asking someone new, with no woodworking experience, to use my shaper without direction or guidance. 

What the OP did ask it "this" thread is about the nail grooves. Created by what, if really needed...Sort of the same. 

It could be created with a router with a bit, table saw with a dado, moulding cutter, shaper... it could be done with a scratch awl if someone were determined...

But by the footage required for all his joints and tooling... 

For T&G- Router would be slowest, molding cutter faster, shaper "fasterer", dado fastest. Router and shaper, easier to make accurate joint quality joint... I am not as accurate if I'm having to stand work up on edge facing a cutter, rather than laying down on a table... Maybe that's just me, but...

For the nail grooves- Router would be slowest, then moulding cutter, shaper, dado... Quality wise- shaper, router, moulding cutter, dado.

Is on opposite side of visual, so who cares what it looks like... 

Taking into account that by my calculations for 320 sq/ft of hardwood flooring he has around 2400 feet of profiles to create between the 3 profiles:
*** Charles' recommendation of using a dado falls right in with mine to a normal user. He could make all 3 profiles with a dado quickly... and there is a lot of feet that he needs to do. If he wants very tight joints, then go the T&G with a router on the finish cut.

How would I do it? Go to my friends cabinet shop... 3 shapers setup for for the 3 profiles, handed off between. Or at home with a dado. I have routers and router tables... A small shaper, moulding cutter... But 2400 feet? That's about one work week with a router table at about 1 minute per foot... Without setup or tooling changes.... 40 hours straight. If you figure in what the OP makes in his day job per hour... (goes back to my first post.)


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## ScottM80 (Jun 17, 2013)

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=25335

What do you guys think of this set from rockler?


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## ScottM80 (Jun 17, 2013)

The more I look into this the more work it seems to be..... I still want to do it myself though.


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## ScottM80 (Jun 17, 2013)

Each piece I will have to router 4 sides of the board, and then run some stress relief on the bottom side. 

I feel like the dado would be much faster but less accurate than a router table.


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## MAFoElffen (Jun 8, 2012)

ScottM80 said:


> Each piece I will have to router 4 sides of the board, and then run some stress relief on the bottom side.
> 
> I feel like the dado would be much faster but less accurate than a router table.


Scott-

That's what I said in my post. You didn't say what tools you "have" so we can't talk specific recommendation... because again, I have no diea what have and what experience you have with what tools.

If you do it on a table saw with a dado. If you did, you would need a dado blade insert and at least a 6" stacked dado and a table saw that can drive it (about 1-1/2hp is plenty for a 6") and an arbor long enough for a 3/4" dado stack. And a stack of 5/8" shim washers. (I get at a fastener supply.)

If I were doing it that way. I would use a 3-4" tall false fence face on the rip fence and feather boards. Use the feather boards to keep stock against the fence... That way it will be consistent.

You can setup 2 different ways. #1 traditional. #2 is how I was taught as a carpenter. 

Tongue: 
1. 1/4 to 5/16" stack. Set inside edge 1/2" out from fence, 1/4 high. Cut outside edge. Turn stock. Cut other edge. This way will end up with variances base on thickness.
2. 1/4+ stack, 1/4 inch of shim washers, 1/4+ stack. To set up. Lower the dado.... Turn on the saw and gently edge the fence false just over the dado, just a smidge. Raise the dado just over 1/4". Turn off the saw. Set dado 1/4" high. Set the fence face even with the dado blade. Run the stock through once... that joint is done. This ways will be right on. If done with featherboards, just as accurate as a router table.

Groove:
1/4 stack. 1/4+" high. 1/4 inch out from fence. Run through once.

Nail groove... No brainer.

Refering to the floor bit set from Rockler. Good set. If you decide on it, let me know and I'll PM you a promo code for 15% off.

In the end, what you do and how you do it is "your" decision. You know a part of this is to remember to enjoy yourself. Me-woodworking, the smell of wood, creating something... helps me sort things out in my head and to relax. Some things I build, I could buy cheaper... but some things you can't put a price tag on. Some things you just can't buy.


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