# Let's play a dream router table game!



## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

A couple of things ahead of time for parameters. Let's say that you are going to purchase all the parts (not going to build your own), it has to be mobile and fit through a normal sized door and let's say you have around $1700 for the entire set up. I pick that number because I like Festool tools and have an OF1400 router so I could buy the Festool CMS for around $1650 and put the 1400 in it. However, I don't know if it would be as versatile as another unit. You can pick any table top, stand, fence, lift, router, etc as long as it doesn't go far above the limit (a little is fine). I am trying to sell a nice rifle and if I do, I will probably upgrade my benchtop router table and this would most likely be the last big ticket item I would buy as I am retired so have to sell things to buy things. What would you choose and why?


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Mike I haven't seen any router tables or fences that will do more or better than the ones I build. If money is an issue then save what you don't need to spend on things you can make for yourself and use that for things you can't make like router bits.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

huger than huge resource...

Table-mounted Routing - Router Forums


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

I just watched a video on the CMS router table and it is an impressive table. A friend got me started in using
Festools and he says there tools are stupid expensive, but we each own several. I really like the dust collection
on the router table and all there tools, but the router table does an excellent job. I am a little disappointed in
there fence adjustment, I think Incra has a better system, but other than that I think it is a really good system.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Knot working said:


> I just watched a video on the CMS router table and it is an impressive table..


this one???
CMS Router Table Model Overview - Festool CMS Router Table


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## Shop guy (Nov 22, 2012)

I don't buy anything I can build so I out.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

Michael, 

It sounds like you already know what you want....

It is hard to say what is best for you without knowing what you are going to be using it for. I like simple tables with a big surface, so I built mine. If I was to buy one it would probably look like http://www.rt1000.com/ Joe's RT1000 that I could put an incurable fence on when needed.


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## BrianS (Nov 7, 2004)

kp91 said:


> Michael,
> 
> It sounds like you already know what you want....
> 
> It is hard to say what is best for you without knowing what you are going to be using it for. I like simple tables with a big surface, so I built mine. If I was to buy one it would probably look like http://www.rt1000.com/ Joe's RT1000 that I could put an incurable fence on when needed.


+1111 on this one Michael. If I had the money, and the room, I would be all over this table.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I've had mine more than a year and have yet to find anything I would do differently except maybe use the smaller LS and cut only 2 air holes in the front insert. Shop made with PC 7518, JessEm/Incra lift, Incra LS25


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

Already have mine.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

timbertailor said:


> Already have mine.


+1 . Incra rocks


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Economic Upturn Apparently*

$1,700?_ $1,700?!!_

For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> $1,700?_ $1,700?!!_
> 
> For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
> It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


just the lift Dan....


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

kp91 said:


> Michael,
> 
> It sounds like you already know what you want....
> 
> It is hard to say what is best for you without knowing what you are going to be using it for.  I like simple tables with a big surface, so I built mine. If I was to buy one it would probably look like http://www.rt1000.com/ Joe's RT1000 that I could put an incurable fence on when needed.


I have been on his website. That looks nice and pretty affordable. I can't seem to find the dimensions other than the height. It looks like you can add an Incra top at a small cost. I emailed him and look forward to what he has to say. If it can be moved from one room to another and can use a lift and fit through a normal sized door, it looks good.

What is an "incurable fence"?


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

DaninVan said:


> $1,700?_ $1,700?!!_
> 
> For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
> It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


You start adding up what it costs for a lift, a router, a fence system, table top, plywood, hardware, switches, dust collector fittings, inserts, measurement and layout tools, coping sleds, feather boards, bits, wheels, quality materials, etc. It adds up quick.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Budget Considerations*



Stick486 said:


> just the lift Dan....


Crikey; I could _ hire _somebody to do the lifting for that kind of money! :crying:


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

bigarm said:


> I have been on his website. That looks nice and pretty affordable. I can't seem to find the dimensions other than the height. It looks like you can add an Incra top at a small cost. I emailed him and look forward to what he has to say. If it can be moved from one room to another and can use a lift and fit through a normal sized door, it looks good.
> 
> What is an "incurable fence"?


An incurable fence is when autocorrect changes 'incra" and I don't catch it on the small screen....:surprise:

Sorry for any confusion!


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I have around a grand into mine. 

Festools CMS looks pretty well made - great DC and the slider is nice for coping. The alternative to a start pin is pretty nice. But it's missing what the LS gives me - a micropositioning fence, incremental positioning, and the ability to use templates. The CMS does have a microadjust on the infeed fence offset, doesn't look like it supports full fence microadjust. Also, the featherboard/guard thing looks like a PITA to deal with - prevents you from pushing a piece through in one motion.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

PhilBa said:


> I have around a grand into mine.
> 
> Festools CMS looks pretty well made - great DC and the slider is nice for coping. The alternative to a start pin is pretty nice. But it's missing what the LS gives me - a micropositioning fence, incremental positioning, and the ability to use templates. The CMS does have a microadjust on the infeed fence offset, doesn't look like it supports full fence microadjust. Also, the featherboard/guard thing looks like a PITA to deal with - prevents you from pushing a piece through in one motion.


To get the full use of the LS system I would probably need this correct?:Robot Check
rather than just :Robot Check 

Then could I use the Triton router without a lift and still do above the table changes?


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> $1,700?_ $1,700?!!_
> 
> For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
> It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


While I would rather spend less than that by the time you add up the table top, fence, lift, router, switches, etc. it adds up fast and the Festool CMS is $1650, so I am trying to look at options that are equal. I am certainly up to spending less money especially if what I get gives me the most options and useful features for further growth.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

DaninVan said:


> $1,700?_ $1,700?!!_
> 
> For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
> It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


While I would rather spend less than that by the time you add up the table top, fence, lift, router, switches, etc. it adds up fast and the Festool CMS is $1650, so I am trying to look at options that are equal. I am certainly up to spending less money especially if what I get gives me the most options and useful features for further growth.

While I do like Festool tools, I am not sure that the CMS gives the most bang for the buck, but it certainly is interesting as is the LS system. I am not sure I fully understand all of its possibilities.


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## kp91 (Sep 10, 2004)

bigarm said:


> To get the full use of the LS system I would probably need this correct?:Robot Check
> rather than just :Robot Check
> 
> Then could I use the Triton router without a lift and still do above the table changes?


The positioning mechanism and the right angle fixture are essentially the same, the more expensive fence has better dust collection and a taller effective area if you are doing panels.

Is it worth the extra bucks? don't know. I wouldn't turn it down if they gave me one...

My regular fence is a piece of milled aluminum angle with MDF on it, my incra fence is a flat aluminum extrusion with a sacrificial MDF face. Both work very well. I don't do a lot of work that requires the extra tall fence on the router table.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

bigarm said:


> To get the full use of the LS system I would probably need this correct?:Robot Check
> rather than just :Robot Check
> 
> Then could I use the Triton router without a lift and still do above the table changes?


I have all that except for the big fence. I thought about getting it but downdraft DC works really well (use Incra Cleansweep inserts) and I avoid routing with the work piece held vertically.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

I took a second look at the amazon add and you get a lot cheaper prices on the various LS systems from incrementaltools.com

The 17" super system (which you linked to) goes for $40 cheaper than the amazon listing. They are usually the cheapest guys around for Incra stuff.

Personally, I would get the the LS 17 standard system which is $310. I have the LS 25 but have yet to use the extra 8 inches and have a hard time seeing doing joints that are longer than around 12 inches. Still the 25 is only $30 more.

I don't know about above table bit changes with the Triton but this is about the time that the Musclechuck guys chime in.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

Thanks. I really appreciate the information, PhilBa.


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## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

kp91 said:


> An incurable fence is when autocorrect changes 'incra" and I don't catch it on the small screen....:surprise:
> 
> Sorry for any confusion!


Thanks for clearing that up. I knew autocorrect was at the heart of the problem but I couldn't figure out what incurable was supposed to be. Now I know.


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## timbertailor (Oct 4, 2009)

The LS is system is just that more versatile IMO. I love Festool, but it is hard to beat the Incra system. Hence, why I own one.


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> $1,700?_ $1,700?!!_
> 
> For that kind of money I can buy my drum sander, build my own decent RT, and buy another router and a bunch of new bits!!
> It would be seriously cold down below before I spent that kind of cash on a table...>


Dan, surely you aren't cheaping out on us, are you?

OK now, given that this is U.S.funds, and using todays exchange rate, that does get up to $2,358.92 Cdn. Add in our taxes and you are up to $2,641.99...toss in a bit more for shipping and now you're knocking on the door to $3,000.00

OK, I understand that's probably even more than your last month's beer budget. But what on earth are our American friends going to think? That all of us Canucks are a bunch of cheapskates???


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

cocobolo1 said:


> Dan, surely you aren't cheaping out on us, are you?
> 
> OK now, given that this is U.S.funds, and using todays exchange rate, that does get up to $2,358.92 Cdn. Add in our taxes and you are up to $2,641.99...toss in a bit more for shipping and now you're knocking on the door to $3,000.00
> 
> OK, I understand that's probably even more than your last month's beer budget. But what on earth are our American friends going to think? That all of us Canucks are a bunch of cheapskates???


I think some times people forget the difference between NEEDS and WANTS, If I got rid of the wants that I bought for my shop and just keep the needs I could sell 75% my tools.
( remember not everybody is working with the same wallet)


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Semipro said:


> I think some times people forget the difference between NEEDS and WANTS, If I got rid of the wants that I bought for my shop and just keep the needs I could sell 75% my tools.
> ( remember not everybody is working with the same wallet)


Only 75%? Mine must be closer to 90%...>

But, you know, sometimes it's nice to have those tools that you want, but don't really need. By the way, what's a wallet? Don't think I have one of those!!! :smile:


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Keith; Me? Cheap?! Bwahahahah!!!!

A Lady neighbor wanted to know, this evening, what I wanted to do to celebrate my 70th B-Day, like you know, have a big bash.
I said, "Hell no; I'm going to put the money towards making my own casket." She was gobsmacked, as the Brits say.
(And no, to the best of my knowledge I'm not checking out any time soon...  )


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

DaninVan said:


> Keith; Me? Cheap?! Bwahahahah!!!!
> 
> A Lady neighbor wanted to know, this evening, what I wanted to do to celebrate my 70th B-Day, like you know, have a big bash.
> I said, "Hell no; I'm going to put the money towards making my own casket." She was gobsmacked, as the Brits say.
> (And no, to the best of my knowledge I'm not checking out any time soon...  )


Oh, that's a dandy! Love it! :smile:


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## Multiwood (Feb 24, 2013)

I made a coffin a few months ago for a friend at work who's wife died suddenly. Anyway Dan
I will donate you an urn when the time comes since Keith says you Canadians are cheap. That
way you can save your money for a new tool. And Dan if I missed it Happy Birthday.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

Knot working said:


> I will donate you an urn when the time comes since Keith says you Canadians are cheap. That
> way you can* save your money for a new tool*. .


here... already done....
or expand the stash...

.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Great idea, guys! They can put me into a doz. stubbies... I still have a few doz. lying around somewhere.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

For $1700 I would be over on Grizzly's website looking at shapers. I built my "dream" router table and cabinet for well under $1000, and that includes an Incra/Woodpecker PRL-V2 lift.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

As long as we are off topic, the coffee can-urn thing reminds me of one of my favorite movie scenes. The best part is at 0:27


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## cocobolo1 (Dec 31, 2015)

Knot working said:


> I made a coffin a few months ago for a friend at work who's wife died suddenly. Anyway Dan
> I will donate you an urn when the time comes since Keith says you Canadians are cheap. That
> way you can save your money for a new tool. And Dan if I missed it Happy Birthday.


No, No, No, not us Canucks. I just wanted to make sure that our American friends don't think we are cheap! That will never do! :grin:


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

Found a somewhat decent deal on a nib Woodpeckers PRL V2 414 and nib Milwaukee 5625 router so sent the money off for them. Now I will need to decide on the top and whether the Incra system is worth the money.


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## PhilBa (Sep 25, 2014)

Congrats on taking the first step!

Now, I would make the top myself. It won't cost you that much and the worst thing that could happen is you have to start over again. It's not that hard and you learn a lot. The pre made tops aren't that thick and you can build a sturdier one.

As to the Incra LS, it does drive how you would set up your table top. But as I said above, it's not that hard to make a top. By the way, I've seen several used LS's on Craigs List over time for a bit more than 1/2 the new price. Worth keeping an eye out for one. I'd be happy to extol the virtues of the LS system if you want but not now.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

Right now I am about 99% sure that I am going to just go with rt 1000 table. The shipping is a lot, but the price makes it hard to beat. Not sure I could make one for much cheaper with the cabinet, fence and dust collection. Not sure I need an Incra LS system as it seems the biggest thing it does is the ability to do dovetail joints and I already have a Leigh D4R so I am not sure I need that ability. Convince me if I am wrong. Also, it appears that all the models of the rt 1000 are the same except the trim. While I like the reversed walnut the best, I could save $70 by just going with the oak trim.


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## bigarm (Nov 12, 2014)

After sleeping on it, I didn't think I could make what he is offering at much less money, so I ordered the cabinet and table this morning.


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