# Another hair-brained dust collection scheme



## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

I's not like I'm specifically trying to cobble together a dust collection system because I'm a penny pincher (which I AM by the way). 

The reality is that in my garage, I already have 3 shop vacs, two of which are 2 1/2", and one is 1 1/4" and a leaf blower that essentially has a 4" inlet. I got 2 of them at yard sales for a total of $10, and the leaf blower is for the yard. I use the shop vacs from time to time for sucking up water and cleaning cars out and stuff.

Now I have a relatively new interest in woodworking, and am trying to be creative about setting up a dust collection system that uses the vacuum sources I already own.

So here is my latest hair-brained scheme:

Suppose I hooked up 2 (or more) of the vacuums to a larger PVC pipe (4 or 6 inches), each with its native sized connector. In this setup, the pipe would be large to the stations and dropping down as necessary at the tool. I'm thinking that multiple vacs on a larger pipe would increase the CFM significantly, resulting in much better duct collection at the stations.

Hair brained, or does it have merit? I guess one positive is that if I eventually have the desire and funds for a dedicated DC system, the backbone would already be in place.

Again, I ALREADY have these vacs, and I am just trying to come up with a creative way to make the best use of them.

Please don't tell me to go out and buy a "proper" dust collection system, because that is not going to happen.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Sure. Use a piece of larger dia. pipe a a plenum. The two (or three) shop vacs will draw the pressure down in the plenum and you'll get the combined airflow (with some losses) to a single working port you could use as the source for your shop wide system. We used a similar concept in the Water Valley Holley Automotive plant (Now Bendix) to supply the vacuum flow for the mass flow testers throughout the plant.

GCG


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Only issue I see with that idea is noise. You will definitely need hearing protection.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

cool. i suppose i could make an enclosure that houses them with some insulation for sound deadening to help with the noise level.


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Chris Curl said:


> cool. i suppose i could make an enclosure that houses them with some insulation for sound deadening to help with the noise level.


That should do it!


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Remember to allow for heat exchange/cooling for the vac motors, Chris; with two of them in a confined space there'll be substantial heat buildup. If you can salvage the heat, not a bad way to heat your shop!


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

DaninVan said:


> Remember to allow for heat exchange/cooling for the vac motors, Chris; with two of them in a confined space there'll be substantial heat buildup. If you can salvage the heat, not a bad way to heat your shop!


Just put a vent low in one corner and an exhaust fan (computer box type) high in the opposite corner both insulated for sound and you'd be good to go. 

GCG


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## J. Leigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> Please don't tell me to go out and buy a "proper" dust collection system, because that is not going to happen.


Shop vacs are designed to move small volumes of air at high velocity at a high static pressure. Like those dopey vacuum cleaner infomercials where the guy picks up a bowling ball as the crowd Ohhhs and Ahhhs...Their impellers are far too small to be used in a "system". They work well connected to small tools, like a Fein or Festool  vac connected to a sander or router. That's just the way it is. Connecting a 2-1/2" shop vac, or 2 or 3, to a 4"-6" pvc main, while producing a very large amount of noise, will result in far too low of a volume of air at the needed velocity to keep dust and wood chips suspended. That's just the physics of it. I wish the numbers worked for you, Chris, really, but I see you putting a lot of time and effort into this and not being happy with the result.
Good luck.


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Avg CFM for a shop vac is around 150. Three would max out at 450 (volume is volume), less in real world conditions. Rockler's hang on the wall system is spec'd at 650 CFM (less real world) rated for 4" duct work. Chris, your idea would be a definite boost IMO and worthy of exploration. Some inexpensive PVC pipe and fittings from HD or Lowes would be all that would be need to prove it.

GCG


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

i could use a little extra heat out there in the winter months.

joe, i understand your points, and you could very well be right. but i think it can't hurt to give it a try. after all, i have more time than money these days. if i keep the receipts and just press fit the PVC pieces together, i can return the whole mess if it doesn't work out.


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi Chris

I'm toying with the idea of a non-electrically powered dust collector. I reckon that if i can build a firebox to burn my waste that with a tall enough chimney I should be able to generate enough draught to extract a saw bench and heat a shop at the same time. What do you reckon? :jester:

Regards

Phil


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## GulfcoastGuy (Feb 27, 2012)

Build up some creosote and start a chimney fire and it'll suck the fillings out of your teeth. That is till the shop burns down.

GCG


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

go for it phil! can you make a video of it too? i'm sure it will go viral!

do you already have a fireplace in your shop and enough waste to power it?


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## Heilander (Sep 29, 2012)

Hare brained is right! Lol


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## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Chris Curl said:


> do you already have a fireplace in your shop and enough waste to power it?


Oh well, back to the drawing board 

Regards

Phil


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

*Really?*



Heilander said:


> Hare brained is right! Lol


Really?

Central vacuum cleaner multiple vacuum source control - Cube Investments Limited

Title:

Central vacuum cleaner multiple vacuum source control 


United States Patent Application 20070079466 
Abstract:

A central vacuum cleaning system has multiple vacuum sources. The multiple vacuum sources are connected through pipes to wall valves. In use a hose is plugged into one of the valves. A handle is connected to the hose. A wand extends from the handle. Attachments such as a power brush are connected to the wand. Switches apply power from one or more power sources to the vacuum sources. The application of power by the switches is controlled by a control circuit. 

Or Wikipedia:

Ultra-high vacuum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Achieving ultra-high vacuum

Extraordinary steps are required to reach UHV, including the following:
High pumping speed — possibly multiple vacuum pumps in series and/or parallel


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## PRDarnell (Mar 21, 2012)

Phil, I seem to recall seeing a photo of an Oneida Dust Deputy Cyclone unit that was connected to two shop-vacs. Now that I want to reference it, of course, I can't find it! So if someone is actually producing something like that commercially you shouldn't have much trouble creating one.


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## jschaben (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Chris - I think you have a viable plan.... just don't connect the vacuums in series. I read a review once (amazon maybe) where some guy was one starring the dust deputy because it didn't work well with two vacuums. Reading through his review, I realized he had daisy chained the vacs.


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

john, if you mean that i shouldn't hook up the inlet of one to the outlet of the other, then no, i was definately not planning on doing that.

thanks


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## PRDarnell (Mar 21, 2012)

Chris, I found the two vacuum Dust Deputy page - The Multi Cyclone DIY Dust Deputy® Kit - http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD990003&CatId={6EE79B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}.


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## Dr Neon (Apr 15, 2010)

Hey Chris. Have you given a thought to hooking your vac(s) into a chip catcher barrel/container, and then feeding the single pickup pipe out of that? Fiber barrels work great for that, and can be had cheaply. The vacuum pulls down the top so it doesn't even need clamps. And if you don't like the results you can always use the barrel for stock storage.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Your problem is likely to be connectors. There are really no standards and I bet by the end of your project you will either not effectively collect dust (read inhale carcinogenic dust), or you will spend as much on parts and materials to have bought a high quality, powerful dust collection system. Also, to keep from having your vacs suck up chips and small chunks of wood (read jam vacs), you will need to get a drum, plus connectors to make a chip collector stage between the tool and vacuums. Ulead has 30 gallon, steel top drums for about $50. 4 inch pvc schedule 40 pipe is not standard sized for dust collection, so you will have to use adapters and lots of tape to make things fit. Schedule 20 pvc pipe is hard to find, but it fits better. If I had it to do over again, I'd sell the shop vacs and put my money into a commercial dust collection unit. Harbor Freight has an inexpensive one that is ugly, but workable. Jet, Delta and other companies make them, but they cost more. I'm a throat cancer survivor so I take dust collection very seriously. And, if you want to retain your hearing, I suggest you use both the insertable ear plugs and muff type suppressors. I hang them on a peg right next to the power switch to remind myself to use them. 

Again, after putzing around building an effective dust collection system part by part, today I'd buy a manufactured unit big enough to suck a bowling ball through a garden hose. High CFM air flow is the thing you need.

Hope this helps.


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## rayschimpf (Sep 30, 2009)

PRDarnell said:


> Chris, I found the two vacuum Dust Deputy page - The Multi Cyclone DIY Dust Deputy® Kit - http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD990003&CatId={6EE79B16-EB63-43E7-8F30-1E06240A24A4}.


Sory this address dosn't work for me

Ray


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

rayschimpf said:


> Sory this address dosn't work for me
> 
> Ray


The Multi Cyclone DIY Dust Deputy® Kit | Oneida Air


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## Chris Curl (Feb 13, 2012)

DrNeon said:


> Hey Chris. Have you given a thought to hooking your vac(s) into a chip catcher barrel/container, and then feeding the single pickup pipe out of that? Fiber barrels work great for that, and can be had cheaply. The vacuum pulls down the top so it doesn't even need clamps. And if you don't like the results you can always use the barrel for stock storage.


That sounds similar to the dust deputy setup. Not a bad idea, thanks.



DesertRatTom said:


> Your problem is likely to be connectors. There are really no standards and I bet by the end of your project you will either not effectively collect dust (read inhale carcinogenic dust), or you will spend as much on parts and materials to have bought a high quality, powerful dust collection system. Also, to keep from having your vacs suck up chips and small chunks of wood (read jam vacs), you will need to get a drum, plus connectors to make a chip collector stage between the tool and vacuums. Ulead has 30 gallon, steel top drums for about $50. 4 inch pvc schedule 40 pipe is not standard sized for dust collection, so you will have to use adapters and lots of tape to make things fit. Schedule 20 pvc pipe is hard to find, but it fits better. If I had it to do over again, I'd sell the shop vacs and put my money into a commercial dust collection unit. Harbor Freight has an inexpensive one that is ugly, but workable. Jet, Delta and other companies make them, but they cost more. I'm a throat cancer survivor so I take dust collection very seriously. And, if you want to retain your hearing, I suggest you use both the insertable ear plugs and muff type suppressors. I hang them on a peg right next to the power switch to remind myself to use them.
> 
> Again, after putzing around building an effective dust collection system part by part, today I'd buy a manufactured unit big enough to suck a bowling ball through a garden hose. High CFM air flow is the thing you need.
> 
> Hope this helps.


Tom, the 2" PVC is a perfect fit for the 2 1/2" hoses of a shop vac. I use a Fernco and it is great.

I don't know about the 4" situation as I don't have a 4" vacuum, except for the leaf vacuum, and that fits a 4" Fernco and 4" pipe perfectly.

What size are standard 4" DC hookups? And don't most of the tools have 2 1/2" hookups anyway?


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## rexlobo (Jul 29, 2012)

Hi chris why dont you try it out and if it works post it on this forum i do have a couple of wet dry vacs i think you gave me a idea in the summer months u can move them outside with a couple of feet of extra hoses and in the winter move them inside for heat just wear ear protection because the racket of two vacums would be unbearable nd good luck nothing tried nothing gained


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## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

rayschimpf said:


> Sory this address dosn't work for me
> 
> Ray


Take the period of the end!


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## J. Leigh (Jul 15, 2012)

Chris Curl said:


> And don't most of the tools have 2 1/2" hookups anyway?


Most if not all stationary power tools Use at least a 4" dust port connection, because that's the minimum size needed to move the cfm's required based on the amount of dust these machines produce.
2-1/2" hookups are used primarily on small bench top and handheld tools.


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