# Unisaw vs. Grizzly



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

There is place in Lubbock, Texas where I buy all of my lumber. Every time I go there to buy some material I just have to go over to their Unisaw and admire it. I know that it would be way over kill for a hobbyist like myself and that the saw is manufactured for commercial use. Grizzly makes a similar looking cabinet saw that sells for about half the cost of the Unisaw. It has a three HP motor so it has plenty of power. My question has to do with the difference between the two saws. I am sure that the construction of the Delta machine is much heavier than that of the Griz, but what else is makes the Unisaw twice as expensive as the Grizzly product?

Jerry


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I don't know about the difference in weight but my Grizzly 1023RLW had a shipping weight of 452#.


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

You must be talking about the latest version of the Unisaw. It has been redesigned, and is alot different then the earlier models.
The Jet and Grizzly cabinet saws are clones of the original Unisaw, some think perhaps better.
The newest unisaw has both handwheels on the front of the machine. I was able to look at one, it seemed very nice.
Any of the cabinet saws are just better, and easier to work with "in my opinion".
I much prefer the 12" saws, with 38"X48"table tops, gives around 6" more table up front of the blade.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Sawdust Don said:


> You must be talking about the latest version of the Unisaw. It has been redesigned, and is alot different then the earlier models.
> The Jet and Grizzly cabinet saws are clones of the original Unisaw, some think perhaps better.
> The newest unisaw has both handwheels on the front of the machine. I was able to look at one, it seemed very nice.
> Any of the cabinet saws are just better, and easier to work with "in my opinion".
> I much prefer the 12" saws, with 38"X48"table tops, gives around 6" more table up front of the blade.


So far I am not hearing of enough difference in the saws to justify the price difference and that is what I am wondering about, you could buy a pretty nice lathe with the difference in the prices, right?

Jerry


----------



## rwbaker (Feb 25, 2010)

*Mrtising*

The name adds a lot to the cost of any product and if you take a look at Popular Mechanics on Google from 1900 on the name "Delta and the Unisaw" have advertising and some very good woodworking projects . Grizzly on the other hand started in the 70's and merchandized from Taiwan/China after Jet did the same with merchandise from Japan in the 60's.

Delta and most others have had to redesign products based on world competition and pending state/US legislation against table saws. Jet is still very proud of there product (shows in price) but Grizzly has become a valued supplier of quality machinery and supporting products. I may not like some return policies but my son recently purchased a Grizzly Cabinet saw that easily betters my Powermatic or my friends Unisaw for 40 percent less.

If you have always wanted one and money is not important you can not go wrong with any of these or some others. Do yourself a favor and make yourself happy; buy what you want. Make sure you get a great fence and cut wood.

With best regards - Baker


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

MT Stringer said:


> I don't know about the difference in weight but my Grizzly 1023RLW had a shipping weight of 452#.


That's a fair bit heavier than my 15 year old Unisaw if I remember correctly. I think my Unisaw was around 300. I haven't used the Grizz or the Powermatic but everything I've heard about them is good and that both are in the same class as the Unisaw.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

rwbaker said:


> The name adds a lot to the cost of any product and if you take a look at Popular Mechanics on Google from 1900 on the name "Delta and the Unisaw" have advertising and some very good woodworking projects . Grizzly on the other hand started in the 70's and merchandized from Taiwan/China after Jet did the same with merchandise from Japan in the 60's.
> 
> Delta and most others have had to redesign products based on world competition and pending state/US legislation against table saws. Jet is still very proud of there product (shows in price) but Grizzly has become a valued supplier of quality machinery and supporting products. I may not like some return policies but my son recently purchased a Grizzly Cabinet saw that easily betters my Powermatic or my friends Unisaw for 40 percent less.
> 
> ...


Richard,
You have just confirmed what I have suspected. The two Grizzly machines that I bought this year, a six inch jointer with spiral cutters, and a 17" band saw are such that I personally I could not ask for better ones.

Jerry


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

The problem with this type of comparison is it only takes two saws that are for the most part the same. this class of saw is viewed by some to be the "OH my god i have a real industrial saw" when in fact it was and still is marketed to the armature.

the Uni was made many years ago and was one of the first saws(1930s) to have a tilting arbour with electric motor in a contained cabinet. This was a very innovative improvement in the 30s coming from a maker/inventor who made toy jig saws and sowing machines for little girls.


The UNI was in production for almost 70 years with very few changes and it took almost 30 years for motors to finely catch up to its 3 belt drive. The 3 beat drive was a way for delta to say it had lots of power even though it did not. The person open the hood/bonnet/blade opening, would see a large drive and be impressed. The very early saw were only 1 and 1.5/2 hp motors and as any with delta saw know this was not a stock motor and so you were stuck with there wonderful selection. mind you the first saws ran steel blades(no carbide teeth back than) that took less hp to cut if kept sharp and set. the point being is no other make used 3 belts to drive a small motor because it was not needed. add to that belt design by that time was prime and power transmission well know by the industry(flat belt machine) and you can conclude it was a gimmick.


you must include the General 650 the left tilt version of the old General 350 in this case. that brings in left tilt and so in that case you would get a powermatic 66 the real Maker of that version of saw. they did invent the left tilt 10" cabinet saw and the c frame motor mount makes it a better chose over the delta motor.

The new Uni from my understanding set the blade further back on the table and Deltas marketing claims its great to have more table in front of the blade for sheet stock cutting. Now that just a load of crap because every one knows that placing the handle up front cause them to set the blade further back. 

Now if your a joint man /furniture maker/one man shop/hobby then your hanging over the blade to do joint like tenon ,box,mitres and your back is going to ache after a good session bent over. I know this because my 15" Poitras has lots of table in front of the blade and i like may General 350 that does not for this type work. IMO they added a gimmick and toasted the best part of the old saw(short distance to blade from front) for the handles up front design. The Delta was never as good as the General /Poitras or Powermatic(way more cast ARN on theses machines) so i can't see Delta dazzling me now.

Powermatic 66 is best in this class saw hands down. Now if you every wanted to see a real industrial saw from a time when saws were saws then you have to look in the last FWW Shop mag at the Wadkin PK pattern maker saw I restored from the 50s that was designed about the same time the Uni was oh and it had a real riving knife back than. 

jack
English machines


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

tool613 said:


> The problem with this type of comparison is it only takes two saws that are for the most part the same. this class of saw is viewed by some to be the "OH my god i have a real industrial saw" when in fact it was and still is marketed to the armature.
> 
> the Uni was made many years ago and was one of the first saws(1930s) to have a tilting arbour with electric motor in a contained cabinet. This was a very innovative improvement in the 30s coming from a maker/inventor who made toy jig saws and sowing machines for little girls.
> 
> ...


Jack,
Thank you for taking the time type this post, it is extremely interesting to me and I am sure that it is to other members of the forum too. Sounds like the Grizzly is still the best bet for me in regard to both money and application. Thanks again for your post.

Jerry


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Richard,
> You have just confirmed what I have suspected. The two Grizzly machines that I bought this year, a six inch jointer with spiral cutters, and a 17" band saw are such that I personally I could not ask for better ones.
> 
> Jerry


I feel the same way about my Grizzly G1023, Jerry. It is 18 years old now, and works just as well as it did when I bought it! It is the saw used in the pics yesterday. I made the same comparisons back then, and decided the Delta wasn't worth nearly double the money. I have never regretted that choice. As you may have noticed, I am using a Delta miter gauge, though! The miter guage that came with the Grizzly had a lot of slop between the bar and the miter head! Why Grizzly used that with an otherwise excellent saw, I really don't know! Probably will opt for an Incra one of these days.


----------



## PRDarnell (Mar 21, 2012)

Jack,

Thank you for your response to Jerry's question. The Delta, Delta/ Rockwell, Delta Uni history has been spottier than present day Delta folks would like us to remember. 

You summarized many years' discussion from the Old Woodworking Machines forum of which you, I and several other folks here are members. 

If I were in the market for a new or slightly used TS I would very much consider a General or Powermatic because the castings, bushings/ bearings, clearances, designs are reliable and time-proven. And if someone is willing to buy a piece 20 to 50 years old rather than new the price can be quite reasonable. 

Just my two cents.

Paul

P.S.: Folks, "cast ARN" and "Uni" are a couple of many idioms folks on the OWWM have used over the past couple decades. Sort of like "tools with tails" (power tools).


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

I think the Powermatic 66 is a better all around saw also.
I did some reasearch on saws a couple years ago, read up on Unisaws. The motor mounting method can be a bit of a problem. Early saws use a smaller diameter motor, that are no longer made. Those, the cabinet opening would have to be cut out larger, or the blade can not be tilted to the full 45 with more modern motors.
When I moved from my contractors saw, I found a Delta 12"-14", much like a Unisaw, but more then twice the weight-over 800lbs.
One feature the 12"-14" has, changeable saw arbors, where any blade hole sizes from 5/8" to 1 1/4", and can handle blade sizes from 7 1/4" to 16".
I am pretty tall with long arms, so I am comfortable with the deeper table, however, this saw must sit directly on the floor, with wheels under it, it would sit too high, the reach would be too far for me.
On the multiple belts some of these saws have, from my experience, this is more for smooth running.
The instructions on the Unisaw states, the belts are to be set quite loose, not even the weight of the motor should be placed on the belts when adjusting.
My 12"-14" has four belts. When tuning that machine in, I found a fine line of the adjustments for the best smoothness. Where, too tight, the machine rumbles,- too loose the belts slap. Both conditions cause vibration. Get that adjustment just right, a dime will stand on end, using top quality belts of course.

My take on the older equpment is, maybe best to get this stuff now. If woodworking machines follow metal working machines, the prices will go up considerable, I think I am seeing that happen.


----------



## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have made 2 Grizzly purchases to date. The first was my band saw, and I have been super happy with it. My only gripe is the guide bearings are a little noisy, but not at all a show stopper.

The second was my jointer. Once I got it going it is good. I had some issues with the motor and belt with it. After working with customer service, they sent me a new motor and got the jointer going. Their customer service is superb. I have heard others gripe that their quality control isn't as good since the tools come out of Taiwan or China. Whether that is true or not, their customer service does make up for it.

My next big tool purchase in a few years will likely be a table saw. If I don't go with a Sawstop, it will most likely be a Grizzly.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

This has been and still is for that matter, an interesting thread. The information that is available via older experienced woodworker seems to be limitless. Most of you that I am referring to have forgotten more about woodworking than I will ever know. Your help is priceless and greatly appreciated by myself and I am sure others.

Jerry


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

I use my saw every day. The 1023RLW has the cast iron router table extension wing giving me a 48 inch wide work surface if I need it.

Lately, I have been keeping a 3/8 inch round over bit mounted in the router. I have been rounding over the sides and sometimes the ends, of some of the boards on the projects I have been building. Man, that is great...just rip the board if needed, step to the right two feet and rout the edges and go install it. It just can't get any easier or more convenient.

I decided on the 1023 because of the router table wing. My workshop is a one car garage with a lot of stuff in it so this helped having two tools in one. I adapted a router fence to connect to my TS fence if needed. If I need to rout something that requires a miter slot in the table, I will set up a router table top on saw horses or clamp it to my work bench. I have done it both ways.

This saw will outlast me for sure and probably some elses' life also. Even tough I am retired, I love woodworking and having a good tool to work with makes life a lot more enjoyable.

Here are a few pics of my set up. Note that I mounted a *paddle switch* on the router table support leg so it is easy to start/stop the router without having to reach under the table.

I also drilled a hole through the cast iron top so I can adjust the router bit height with the hex key wrench.

Hope this info helps.
Good luck in your search for a TS.
Mike


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

MT Stringer said:


> I use my saw every day. The 1023RLW has the cast iron router table extension wing giving me a 48 inch wide work surface if I need it.
> 
> Lately, I have been keeping a 3/8 inch round over bit mounted in the router. I have been rounding over the sides and sometimes the ends, of some of the boards on the projects I have been building. Man, that is great...just rip the board if needed, step to the right two feet and rout the edges and go install it. It just can't get any easier or more convenient.
> 
> ...



Mike,
Us old guys sure do enjoy our woodworking, almost as much as our naps huh? I am only wondering about a new saw, like you, I probably will never wear out my present hybrid Craftsman saw, but that Grizzly Cabinet SAw sure does look good to me.

Jerry


----------



## woodie26 (May 31, 2009)

I have a Unisaw that I've had for 20+ years in a cabinet shop, never had do do Anything to it!


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

*there all the same*

Every maker in this class of saw is made in the same place today. Are the older north american made saws any better made? IMO not after the 20 years they been making them and in some cases there are big improvements. Delta is just a Brand name now as are the others. Its time to start looking at the tools for there merits other wise you may as well pick a color you like. they will all cut wood and if there brand new will do it well when you compare it to what your replacing. what does "i got a new saw and i love it" mean? It means its new and works . kind of hard to sale anything less than that. where are these saws going and how good do they have to be? most if not all to the home shop to get light use. I mean really how hard is it to make a saw of this type. its not rocket science. 


Now if you wanted to talk about what makes a saw good. that would be a thread that would weed through the classes and brands and give the would be table saw buyer fodder for the consumer canon.


jack

English machines


----------



## Rajmedina (Mar 9, 2013)

*Unisaw vs Grizzly*

All I can say is hat I bought a bandsaw and a planer from Grizzly and they are very high quality machines. I would not hesitate to buy anything from Grizzly!


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

tool613 said:


> Now if you wanted to talk about what makes a saw good. that would be a thread that would weed through the classes and brands and give the would be table saw buyer fodder for the consumer canon.


Ok, Jack, you start it - we'll follow...... 

BTW is that consumer brands only?

Regards

Phil


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Phil P said:


> Ok, Jack, you start it - we'll follow......
> 
> BTW is that consumer brands only?
> 
> ...


 Phil

I am not sure it maters all that much what saws we use to dissect and i know your a wealth of knowledge for many of larger production machine in and out of date. 


I think it would be very easy to just look at the saw for what it is.

History will play a fine role in uncovering the improvements and why saws are what there are today.


My questions would be what makes these parts of a table saw any good;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;



the table

the arbour

the motor

the rise and fall

the tilting of table or arbour

the fixtures/including sliding tables fences,mitres

the size of blade

Safety gear/including electric


I am sure there are more


the table should give at the least a proper working surface and good registration to the blade. this means support of the work and be flat or stay that way. the oldest were wood and could be where the name table came from and in some cases they were/are called a saw bench after the work bench so the table is a work surface that needs to be ergonomic. Many a saw will fall short just on this part IMO.



there I started Phil.


anyone care to coment on what makes any of these parts of the saw i have listed any good? And yes tell me how good they are on your new saw.


jack

English machines


----------



## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Definition of a excellent tool = A tool that cuts wood without frustration.


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

boogalee said:


> Definition of a excellent tool = A tool that cuts wood without frustration.


+1:yes4: And fits ones budget and shop! 

And Jack, I know of many commercial shops that run Grizzly equipment and Delta as well. Not everyone needs $10,000 saws with 14" blades and 1600 lbs of mass. But hey, if that's what makes one tick... more power(pun intended!) to them. Just don't try to convince me mine is junk because it doesn't meet your standard.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

boogalee said:


> Definition of a excellent tool = A tool that cuts wood without frustration.


Al,
I don't quite agree with you. I have a relative inexpensive saw, by inexpensive I mean less than a thousand dollars. My saw does cut with little or no frustration but tilting the blade over to 45 degrees is frustrating because the wheel turn hard and being on the side is just less than a delight to accomplish if you know what I mean. Now, I must add this, I have never owned another saw so for all I know, this is just normal and does not mean that there is anything wrong with the saw. It's just that I wonder if making the cuts with no frustration is the standard or not. Also, a saw that cuts with no frustration might not stay in line and the nice easy cuts will go away and the blade will need to be re-aligned. My saw stays in line, but my neighbor complains about the fact that his saw wonpt stay in line, but he says it cuts fine until the blade get out of line. Just my thinking Al, let's see what other members say about this subject.

Jerry


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dmeadows said:


> +1:yes4: And fits ones budget and shop!
> 
> And Jack, I know of many commercial shops that run Grizzly equipment and Delta as well. Not everyone needs $10,000 saws with 14" blades and 1600 lbs of mass. But hey, if that's what makes one tick... more power(pun intended!) to them. Just don't try to convince me mine is junk because it doesn't meet your standard.


Hi Duane




This is my point::::::::::::::::::::::::: 

when we toss around brand Names we just start a pissing match IMO. I have been on the forum for a few year and from my point of view there are very few would be buyers that could tell you what type of saw would best suit there needs. This in part has to do with the worship group brand lovers, and lack of information on what makes a saw any good based on its build. This could be why you get the chevy vs. ford threads. I could not agree more that there are commercial ventures that have the brands you listed and there are many threads base on the two points you have brought up, size and money. The cost of a saw is very important to most and i would agree not everyone need a $10,000 saw or a 14" blade. That said its not much use to most here if there is reason to think that a $10,000 saw has no merit or for that matter a 14" blade no value either. I left out cost in my list because most will believe that the more you pay the better the tool. for the most part this can be true. I think that if one was to know what makes any saw good for them based on design they will be able to judge a saw by value and not the price tag. 


As to my standards they fall well below $10,000, in fact of all the saws at the shop i paid the most for my little 10" General 350 many year ago and what i consider my best saw the Wadkin PK i payed $100.I would have in total for all 3 saws the 10" General,18"Wadkin, and 15"Poitras less money in than a new 10" Grizzly.


Maybe this type of thread is of no use to anyone here?



jack

English machines


----------



## boogalee (Nov 24, 2010)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Al,
> I don't quite agree with you. I have a relative inexpensive saw, by inexpensive I mean less than a thousand dollars. My saw does cut with little or no frustration but tilting the blade over to 45 degrees is *frustrating* because the wheel turn hard and being on the side is just less than a delight to accomplish if you know what I mean. Now, I must add this, I have never owned another saw so for all I know, this is just normal and does not mean that there is anything wrong with the saw. It's just that I wonder if making the cuts with no frustration is the standard or not. Also, a saw that cuts with no frustration might not stay in line and the nice easy cuts will go away and the blade will need to be re-aligned. My saw stays in line, but my neighbor complains about the fact that his saw wonpt stay in line, but he says it cuts fine until the blade get out of line. Just my thinking Al, let's see what other members say about this subject.
> 
> Jerry


Jerry

Setting up the saw is part of cutting wood and if the setup is frustrating than it is not an excellent saw. If the saw does not stay in line than I would become frustrated rather quickly.

I might add that my table saw is a Grizzly and the only thing that frustrates me is the cost of the blades.

Al


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

tool613 said:


> Hi Duane
> 
> 
> Maybe this type of thread is of no use to anyone here?
> ...


To an experienced user, obviously not. But to a newcomer starting out, it may be quite useful. I agree with you on the Chevy/Ford thing. But to the question of a Grizzly vs Delta issue.. Yes the Delta has better fit and finish perhaps, but is it really worth twice the price to the average small shop owner? I think not. By the way, I own Delta, Grizzly, Jet, Craftsman, General, Porter Cable, DeWalt, and some other stuff as well. So I am not a Grizzly fanatic.. although their tools have served me well.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Dmeadows said:


> To an experienced user, obviously not. But to a newcomer starting out, it may be quite useful. I agree with you on the Chevy/Ford thing. But to the question of a Grizzly vs Delta issue.. Yes the Delta has better fit and finish perhaps, but is it really worth twice the price to the average small shop owner? I think not. By the way, I own Delta, Grizzly, Jet, Craftsman, General, Porter Cable, DeWalt, and some other stuff as well. So I am not a Grizzly fanatic.. although their tools have served me well.


Duane,
Apparently you are not a hobbyist type of woodworker, or else just collector of fine tools, I suspect the former huh?

I'm going to tell you my experience in buying my present saw. I've probably told it more than once on this forum, but in light of the fact that every day I see a lot of new comers to the forum and so the repeat might be of interest to them. 

My first saw was a $169 craftsman from Sears. Purchased for the purpose of making picture frames. Needless to say, it was not an exciting machine. Then when my wife's brother in law offered to sell me a used but larger Craftsman, I parked the first one and eventually gave it away. I add d the Incra TS LS system to that saw. By then I had become interested in making more than picture frames. I didn't have that saw long and I never could get it lined up even after completely disassembling it reassembling it, the motor burned out, it had been used hard I suspect and not being in line problable had over worked the motor, of course I don't know that for sure. Anyway, by then I had gotten acquainted with Mark Mueller of Incra Tools, I phoned him and asked him for his ipinion on what to buy. He told me that in his opinion at that time, over three years ago now, that a certain Craftsman saw, was the best saw on the market that sold for under a thousand dollars and he had two of them that he used in his demonstrations for Incra products. He went on to tell me that the saw had been designed and built by an ex employee of Delta and marketed by Sears. The saw weighs 400 lbs, most of the weight is in the table top and the two ten inch wide cast iron wings. I don't see this saw for sale anymore but it has turned out to be a great saw for purposes. 


The first thing that I found out about the saw that I really liked is that the alignment is done by moving the table, the earlier saw had to aligned by loosening the trunjuns and fighting that mess. So, the saw was easy to align after buying the dial indicator set up for that purpose from Woodpecker. Staying under .002" of run out is or was fairly easy to accomplish. I could get it down to zero, but can't or should say haven't yet, been able to torgue the table back down and maintain the zero.

So, in my opinion, price and application are the two things that have to be taken into consideration, I might ask this question, does anybody make a bad saw these days.

Jerry


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Duane,
> 
> ...
> So, in my opinion, price and application are the two things that have to be taken into consideration, I might ask this question, does anybody make a bad saw these days.
> ...


Jerry, I agree with you. The cabinet style saws with the trunnions mounted to the cabinet instead of the table are easier to adjust. That said I have a Craftsman contractor saw that is dead accurate, just not as powerful as my Grizzly. I didn't really need it, but got it brand new in a box for less than $100 with cast iron extensions and a decent fence system. Couldn't pass it up. From just a space stand point though, I really should sell it!


Are there bad saws made? Unfortunately yes, and even worse fence systems! That said, you can't go to far wrong with most over $1000 saws these days. In the lower end stuff, there is some really crappy junk available!

Actually I am a high end hobbyist woodworker, but have been at it to varying degrees for 35 years or so. I also have been involved with machine repair most of that time. I don't collect tools for the most part. What I have I actually use. I have a friend who is/was(he is retired now so slowed down a bit!)a collector. He has 20-30 year old stuff some of which I don't think has ever been out of the box! He has a few things I would like to buy, but he thinks they are worth as much or more now than when he bought them!


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

The Sears store folded up years ago in my smal town, but, I looked at a 10" Craftsman saw at the Ace store.
This saw is tiny, the top is a folded piece of sheet metal probably over the plastic that makes up the rest of the saw. Tiny miter gage, sloppy fit in the groove. The handwheels had a horrible feel and action.
Just my opinion, without actually running it-Dangerous piece of crap!

I am doing a few things for money, and see further oportunity in that direction, but, not in a regular cabinet type shop open to the public. Where the overhead, and ect does not pencil out in my situation, area, and ect.

What I found in my situation is, the need to purchase wood directly from mills in large pieces, then break them down to needed sizes. this drastically reduces material cost and having better quality wood.
That, is the main reason I am going for the heavier machines.

I have to buy used equipment, new is way out of what I can do.
Used is used, that is, every piece of equipment I have purchased needed work. Even machines that have had little past use, at least needed bearings. The grease in sealed bearings gets dry after 20yrs or so.

I have to say, if I did not have a machine shop in my garage, dealing with the used heavy woodworking machines would be a problem.


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I recently took the dive into a 10" Cab Saw.

It started with an older fella down the road selling his uni, because he was moving into a smaller place and didn't have room. It was right tilt, maybe 10-15 yrs old, 32" with a Beis Fence. He wanted $1,000 firm. It was probably worth it, but I began to really look around.

Powermatic was having a wonderful sale, something like 15% off and well I looked at the whatever they have replaced the 66 with real hard and long and boy did I want it.

Looked at the New Delta and it sure is pretty, but cost and reviews up against the PM left me looking at the PM. Looked at Sawstop and really was concerned that the special stuff might be one of those situation where they were adding just one more thing to break and the cost sent me back to the PM (at the sale price mind you).

Then I looked into the Griz. Decided I could get the 0691 for a couple hundred more than the used Uni (which was only 32"). It was less than half the price of the PM on sale.

So with the money I saved I bought an upgraded miter (Incra mm hm), Roller cart for cab and side table and a bolt on outfeed roller thing. All for way less than the pertty PM (WAY LESS). And just a few hundred more than the used Uni.

So far I am very happy. They (Griz) put my saw up for sale a week after I bought it. I called them and they sent me a gift cert for the difference. That made me even happier 

I have worked as a professional carpenter off and on all my life. But we all know that job site equipment doesn't compare to shop equipment, so this Griz is the nicest thing I've ever owned. Cuts better than my old contractor saw (hahahaha it should right).


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Dmeadows said:


> I know of many commercial shops that run Grizzly equipment and Delta as well. Not everyone needs $10,000 saws with 14" blades and 1600 lbs of mass.


Whilst I agree that not everyone needs $10,000 saws and 14in blades I'm constantly surprised that so many American shops limp by on underpowered, undersized equipment. Or is it just that their volumes are so small or the size of what they do is small or is it down to a complete lack of knowledge about woodworking machinery?



tool613 said:


> History will play a fine role in uncovering the improvements and why saws are what there are today.


You'd think so, wouldn't you? After all the table saw first appeared before 1800 in England at a firm making sheave blocks for the Royal Navy near Portsmouth (and contrary to popular myth was not invented by a certain Shaker lady). From then on development has been slow but steady. Rip fences for resawing came in quite early on whilst the riving knife and crown guard had appeared by the 1890s (with Glover's patent guarding system). Tilting arbors began to appear in the 1920s with the widespread adoption of ball bearings and integrated electric motor drives – prior to this saws had a fixed blade with either had a tilting table or had a fence which tilted like the fence on a planer (available on some British and German heavy rip saws into the1980s). BTW do you know that makes your PK an earlier design than the Unisaw? The complexity of designing and building an effective and accurate trunion system to achieve this was beyond the capability of many smaller firms on both sides of the Atlantic and put them out of business in the years after WWII. The sliding table put in appearance with the German firm of Altendorf – in 1907 – whilst blade braking (manual at first) was a feature on some saws by the 1950s (it was to take until the 1980s for automatic braking to become a reality). The carbide tipped blade was a WWII invention in Germany (so they could cut chipboard, another WWII invention). In fact the most modern piece on a saw is probably the fence – the versatile hi-lo Euro rip fence made it's appearance on saws in the 1960s and once again Altendorf was to the fore. Given that, why is it that consumer-grade saws seem so backwards in their design in comparison to commercial stuff of even the 1970s?

Regards

Phil


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dmeadows said:


> Jerry, I agree with you. The cabinet style saws with the trunnions mounted to the cabinet instead of the table are easier to adjust. That said I have a Craftsman contractor saw that is dead accurate, just not as powerful as my Grizzly.


I think too the the table mounted trunnon is suited to the smaller saws in general. there limits it seams is the size of motor they can hang off them and them generaly the tables are weak and do not stay flat because the works hang from them. its also a PITA to work on.


As always there are exception and the General 450 12"(no longer made) is a table mounted trunnon saw unlike is little brother the 10" 350 cabinet mounted. I must say the 450 is dead nuts accurate and very well made for a table mounted trunnon, My first job in a cabinet shop had this saw and i must say it did hold up well.


General 450 table saw mechanism - YouTube

General 450 Table saw

jack
English machines


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Phil P said:


> You'd think so, wouldn't you? In fact the most modern piece on a saw is probably the fence – the versatile hi-lo Euro rip fence made it's appearance on saws in the 1960s and once again Altendorf was to the fore. Given that, why is it that consumer-grade saws seem so backwards in their design in comparison to commercial stuff of even the 1970s?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil


 Thanks so much Phil i was feeling out numbered. LOL The sliding fence plate is not british? is it just the low fence that is German?


we are making progress though. every ones taking riving knifes as the latest greatest but i am sure the short fence will have a hard time yet.


Child Labor - Boys Use Unguarded Saws - Awesome Stories

jack

English machines


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Phil P said:


> Whilst I agree that not everyone needs $10,000 saws and 14in blades I'm constantly surprised that so many American shops limp by on underpowered, undersized equipment. Or is it just that their volumes are so small or the size of what they do is small or is it down to a complete lack of knowledge about woodworking machinery?
> 
> 
> You'd think so, wouldn't you? After all the table saw first appeared before 1800 in England at a firm making sheave blocks for the Royal Navy near Portsmouth (and contrary to popular myth was not invented by a certain Shaker lady). From then on development has been slow but steady. Rip fences for resawing came in quite early on whilst the riving knife and crown guard had appeared by the 1890s (with Glover's patent guarding system). Tilting arbors began to appear in the 1920s with the widespread adoption of ball bearings and integrated electric motor drives – prior to this saws had a fixed blade with either had a tilting table or had a fence which tilted like the fence on a planer (available on some British and German heavy rip saws into the1980s). BTW do you know that makes your PK an earlier design than the Unisaw? The complexity of designing and building an effective and accurate trunion system to achieve this was beyond the capability of many smaller firms on both sides of the Atlantic and put them out of business in the years after WWII. The sliding table put in appearance with the German firm of Altendorf – in 1907 – whilst blade braking (manual at first) was a feature on some saws by the 1950s (it was to take until the 1980s for automatic braking to become a reality). The carbide tipped blade was a WWII invention in Germany (so they could cut chipboard, another WWII invention). In fact the most modern piece on a saw is probably the fence – the versatile hi-lo Euro rip fence made it's appearance on saws in the 1960s and once again Altendorf was to the fore. Given that, why is it that consumer-grade saws seem so backwards in their design in comparison to commercial stuff of even the 1970s?
> ...


American shops limping by on underpowered, undersized equipment is a bit of an over generalization. Sure there are some that do. There are folks as well that only make very small things and "get by" nicely. And I agree much of the low end stuff available here is purely unsafe junk. 

However 3-5 HP Cabinet saws are quite common. If those are "underpowered", so be it I guess. For anyone using 4/4 material and below, even the 1.5- 2.0 HP belt drive saws(not the inflated rating, direct drive things) actually do a respectable job.

As for fences, I really believe it depends on the specific application. I can see advantages to both long and short fences. Riving knives are a plus. But I don't see what either fences or riving knives have to do with Jerry's question. Both have long fences, and both have riving knives. If you want to argue about the relative quality supplied with either saw that's one thing. But comparing to machines not widely available here is rather unhelpful.

Thanks for the history lesson, but I don't really think any of that is relevant to the question at hand either!


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Dmeadows said:


> American shops limping by on underpowered, undersized equipment is a bit of an over generalization. Sure there are some that do. There are folks as well that only make very small things and "get by" nicely. And I agree much of the low end stuff available here is purely unsafe junk.


OK, Duane, that was probably a bit OTT, but there was a comment made earlier which gave the impression that the Unisaw or Grizzly were standard commercial machines. I do hope not.

As to machines not widely available, well I visited a number of larger concerns in the USA when I worked in your country at the turn of the millenium. What initially surprised me was the numbers of European (mainly Italian) panel and table saws and the dearth of home-grown makes. Neither Delta nor Powermatic seemed to have grasped the nettle back then (or for that matter in the sixties and onwards). Available or not, US vendors live in a world economy and yet seem unwilling or unable to embrace improvements in technology. As an outsider I find that perverse given the USA's general attitude to new technologies (i.e. a lot more positive than where I hale from). As to comparisons between industrial and domestic technology I'd say that what starts out as as industrial technology often cascades downwards to home-shop equipment (e.g. laser levels as an example), but looking a Jack's saw, which is by the by all of _86 years old_, you can see many ideas which are still embodied in the latest industrial kit from Italy or Germany - very few of which other than the riving knife appear to have influenced the Unisaw (and that took 100 years to get there). Which is a pity for all those who continue to buy such stuff when it would cost so little extra to achieve so much more

Regards

Phil


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Dmeadows said:


> As for fences, I really believe it depends on the specific application. I can see advantages to both long and short fences. Riving knives are a plus. But I don't see what either fences or riving knives have to do with Jerry's question. Both have long fences, and both have riving knives. If you want to argue about the relative quality supplied with either saw that's one thing. But comparing to machines not widely available here is rather unhelpful.
> 
> Thanks for the history lesson, but I don't really think any of that is relevant to the question at hand either!


I hope you don't mind my input on this one Phil. 


This is where much of the misconception lies with the beis style fence. What makes the beis sub par with the fence Phil has described ( fore and aft high low fence )is the lack of applications this fence has out of the box in regards to long know safe table saw practise well know and documented as far back as the 70s. The Grizzly has got a riving knife and a crown guard but its long through fence foul some of the basic cuts made on a table saw. It has been well know in UE that the riving knife, crown guard and fence position is what takes the risk of kick back to all most nil. It is not the individual component it is the 3 (knife ,crown, fence)working in unison. So in terms of safty the long fence it is not a good design.

Grizzly own manual tells you that if the guards get in the way to remove them. what they don't tell you is it has to do with the fence they supplied with there saw.





Now i know what your saying;;;; "so what jack" I can add a peice of wood to the fence this is what great about the bies.


if what is great about the long through fence is it ease at adding the componts that make up for its short comeing then so be it.


look here for its short comings.





http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf


ps Jerry i hope you find this helpfull.



jack

English machines


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

tool613 said:


> I hope you don't mind my input on this one Phil.
> 
> 
> This is where much of the misconception lies with the beis style fence. What makes the beis sub par with the fence Phil has described ( fore and aft high low fence )is the lack of applications this fence has out of the box in regards to long know safe table saw practise well know and documented as far back as the 70s. The Grizzly has got a riving knife and a crown guard but its long through fence foul some of the basic cuts made on a table saw. It has been well know in UE that the riving knife, crown guard and fence position is what takes the risk of kick back to all most nil. It is not the individual component it is the 3 (knife ,crown, fence)working in unison. So in terms of safty the long fence it is not a good design.
> ...


Jack,
This thread has indeed been of great help, very informative and confirms what I had suspected and hoped for.

Do I dare add another question to my quest for what I am wanting to do, the question is this. What do members think about adding the Incra TS LS to the Grizzly cabinet saw that is in question in this thread? Hope you will respond.

Jerry


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Jack,
> This thread has indeed been of great help, very informative and confirms what I had suspected and hoped for.
> 
> Do I dare add another question to my quest for what I am wanting to do, the question is this. What do members think about adding the Incra TS LS to the Grizzly cabinet saw that is in question in this thread? Hope you will respond.
> ...


Jerry, It should be no problem at all. Less than with the Delta which has 30" deep table!


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Ordered it last night  for my grizzly. I would like to do some things that require some very precise cuts. What they sent with the saw is really good, but that incra is special.


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

Shortslvs said:


> Ordered it last night  for my grizzly. I would like to do some things that require some very précis
> e cuts. What they sent with the saw is really good, but that incra is special.


Fred,

You will never be sorry for buying the Incra Miter Gauge with the fence and stop system, I would suggest that you consider the Express Sled and you will have it all. That set up with the Grzz TS is, in my opinion right now nothing short of the RITZ.

Jerry


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

This was an interesting thread to follow. Didn't it start off with "which saw to buy?"... Then turned into the trash American saw thread....

All I can say to that is that American designs/innovation... Has something that works for it and against it. It is market driven. Americans companies tend to build what they can sell to Americans. I like that about American business most of the time. I had no idea, until I read this thread, that this basic motivator of capitalism had so crippled the development of Table Saws in the USA. Wow thanks for pointing that out - makes me want to switch to the Euro (currency). Sorry I couldn't help pointing out that just because you think something is such a great idea it might not be. But the saw designs creating almost no kickback is probably something you guys should be really proud of and you obviously are.


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I have it on my wish list. I also ordered the incra router joinery system, but I got it on a separate table. I don't like having a router table on my TS. It cost a bit more going this way, but I had a bit of a good turn financially and decided to use it that way


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

Jerry Bowen said:


> Fred,
> 
> You will never be sorry for buying the Incra Miter Gauge with the fence and stop system, I would suggest that you consider the Express Sled and you will have it all. That set up with the Grzz TS is, in my opinion right now nothing short of the RITZ.
> 
> Jerry


I posted my reply in the wrong place I think. What I ordered last night was the Incra 52" TS Fence system. I ordered the router (wonder fence) a couple weeks ago. Got the Incra Miter the same time I ordered my saw and I love it.

The Express is on my wish list :dance3:


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

Shortslvs said:


> This was an interesting thread to follow. Didn't it start off with "which saw to buy?"... Then turned into the trash American saw thread....
> 
> All I can say to that is that American designs/innovation... Has something that works for it and against it. It is market driven. Americans companies tend to build what they can sell to Americans. I like that about American business most of the time. I had no idea, until I read this thread, that this basic motivator of capitalism had so crippled the development of Table Saws in the USA. Wow thanks for pointing that out - makes me want to switch to the Euro (currency). Sorry I couldn't help pointing out that just because you think something is such a great idea it might not be. But the saw designs creating almost no kickback is probably something you guys should be really proud of and you obviously are.


I don't think its was trash the Merican saw as it was don't tell me a Delta is an industrial saw . America made some very fine saws saws like those from Oliver ,Tanawitezs,Northfield,Greenlee, are real winners in the industry before SCM took the market. The delta is a fair 10" cabinet saw that is not better than it was 70 years ago. Not until recently has delta revamped the saw and in IMO did very little to improve it when you consider what they could have done. :moil:


as Phil has pointed out saws like My Wadkin PK designed in the 20s have features still on saws today and you would think that history would have caught up on the American saws. 


when Wadkin set out to make a Table saw they set the bar high and IMO made the best table saw in the world. we will never again reach this level of manufacturing as it was unsustainable. this saw spent day in day out cutting solid mahogany for 50 years before i got it and it was still in top shape.





























































jack

English machines


----------



## Dmeadows (Jun 28, 2011)

Shortslvs said:


> This was an interesting thread to follow. Didn't it start off with "which saw to buy?"... Then turned into the trash American saw thread....


Yeah Fred, I agree. Jerry wasn't even looking for a saw for a "commercial" shop. Doesn't seem to matter that some of the "recommended" stuff can't even be purchased unless you are able to find a used machine, able to deal with the size and weight, etc, etc.

Guess there is no room for practicality any more. Think I will just stay away from these which widget should I buy threads. They always seem to end up in the my saw, router, router table, is bigger, better, badder than your saw, router, router table, or whatever I enjoy sharing my experience but sometimes it's just not worth the effort. Must be really discouraging to newbies to find out that there is no way that they can have a "good" saw in there shop.... jeesh! 

Let alone be safe using it! Believe it not some of us have actually made high quality projects for many years, and yet kept all of our fingers, while using these "inferior" products! Go figure! 
And NO I do NOT say because it hasn't happened to me it can't happen.


----------



## Sawdust Don (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh well,
Some equipment is works of art like Jacks pictured above.
Machines like that were built for quality regardless of price.
I wonder what the market was at the time for that machine? Perhaps military.

Anyway, I was able to do some nice projects using a $100 used contractors saw for many years.
I have bought much heavier equipment since, getting just better finish on the cuts, and better dimensional accuracy.
I have moved to purchasing raw sawn wood from mills in big chuncks, and the heavier machines are better suited to break that down to usable sizes.
Just depends on what one is doing.

Not really a big deal, smaller equipment does fill a real need, and its good for many to know what works. I like reading about all equipment myself.


----------



## tool613 (Apr 7, 2013)

*some people just don't like big tools but we all like tools*

Don

i would have to agree with you.


i think Jerry asked what saw to get of the two and i gave my opinion. that being both saws were the same and that the delta had nothing more to offer. Beyond that i though that if jerry were to know what makes up a good saw and the general good designs out there he would be in a position to judge for himself no madder the class or price. Given the size of jerry shop i can say he has the room for a larger saw so this is not holding him . 


Don the wadkin PK is a Pattern makers saw built to make the wooden pattern in wood for the cast ARN forms/patterns for sand casts. Pattern makers were the elite of the woodworking trades and worked to tolerances of metal work. The machines were made to spec far beyond woodworking machine standards then and now and some were half the price of a small home. this industry is all but extinct and i have made it my mission to save as much as i can. sorry to say much has made its way to the scraper to be melted down for fry pans for Wallmart. I pic that saw up for $100. I have a few pattern machines in the shop and they are a joy to use. Yes there big and heavy two of my faverate things my thread is that there Wadkin made in England one of the finest makers of pattern making machines there ever was.






So sorry Jerry if i have hijack your thread but who does not like tools?



jack

English machines


----------



## Phil P (Jul 25, 2010)

Shortslvs said:


> - makes me want to switch to the Euro (currency).


Hi Fred

..... All I can say is oh, no you wouldn't! Not that I'd know because I live in one of the EU countries which didn't adopt the Euro. You wouldn't like the prices we pay for almost everything here, though



Shortslvs said:


> Sorry I couldn't help pointing out that just because you think something is such a great idea it might not be. But the saw designs creating almost no kickback is probably something you guys should be really proud of and you obviously are.


It isn't really anything to do with pride for us, it's to do with having a safer life. If I want danger I'll go and ride my motorbike, thanks. Actually, if you go onto European forums and compare them with American ones you'll find one thing almost absent there - lurid descriptions by members of their kick back experience(s). I think that says a lot



Sawdust Don said:


> I wonder what the market was at the time for that machine? Perhaps military.


As Jack said, they were primarily aimed at the patternmaking trade, but quite a few ended up in cabinetmaking shops as well, not to mention a number being exported to the USA under a joint agreement with Oliver between 1927 and WWII.

Regards

Phil


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

tool613 said:


> I don't think its was trash the Merican saw as it was don't tell me a Delta is an industrial saw . America made some very fine saws saws like those from Oliver ,Tanawitezs,Northfield,Greenlee, are real winners in the industry before SCM took the market. The delta is a fair 10" cabinet saw that is not better than it was 70 years ago. Not until recently has delta revamped the saw and in IMO did very little to improve it when you consider what they could have done. :moil:
> 
> 
> as Phil has pointed out saws like My Wadkin PK designed in the 20s have features still on saws today and you would think that history would have caught up on the American saws.


My point was that the thread was "Grizzly or Uni?" and that how these are built is market driven. That is a good thing sometime and sometimes it isn't.

Anyway the saw you put in the pics is amazing B E A U T I F U L. So sad that none of us will ever have a saw like that. Wow I wish I could, but as it turns out my choices were limited to PM (too much money), Uni (used not new because too much money), Sawstop (Again too much money) or the Grizzly which I could afford and is a really nice saw for they money. I think that is the position of most of the people who started reading the "Grizzly or Uni" thread.

Thanks for telling us that they are all crap and too dangerous to use, and that there has been no improvements on US (sold if not made) since the implementation of child labor laws, but mostly thanks for the pics. Wow she is nice. Maybe we should change the thread to Grizz Uni or Wadkin... BTW I would pick the Wadkin if I could afford it. :wacko:

Now I guess I am going to go make some saw dust with my subpar tools and maybe shed a tear over the fact that I will never own anything nice.:sarcastic:


----------



## Shortslvs (Jan 13, 2013)

I had a few minutes and was back at my computer, so I decided to look in on this thread again to take another look at that Wadkin. Wow!

Then I reread my last post. I would like to be clear that I was laughing the whole time I was writing, but I am concerned that someone might not have thought I was trying to be funny, but instead that I was genuinely upset.

I was really just trying to have a little fun with my brother across the pond, but I forget sometimes that when we post something, that something, may not be interpreted as it was intended.

I love the pics of the Wadkins. I appreciate the comments about safety and it's importance (Safety First!) Everything that I said that was barbed was all meant in good fun. 

I really hope that no one new to the forum is discouraged by my posts on this thread and if you are new I want you to know that there is an incredible amount of wisdom shared here every day and this forum is always my first stop when I am looking for information on routing and at least stop number 2 or 3 when I have questions about any area of woodworking. 

We don't always agree, but isn't that a big part of the fun?


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

Sawdust Don said:


> Oh well,
> Some equipment is works of art like Jacks pictured above.
> Machines like that were built for quality regardless of price.
> I wonder what the market was at the time for that machine? Perhaps military.
> ...


Playing thread necromancer as this is a very interesting thread. I currently run a contractors saw (Craftsman) with the router in an extension wing and an Incra Fence. Thinking of a Grizzly 1023 Cabinet saw. 

One certainly can do a good bit of work with a fairly basic saw. :smile:


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

Shortslvs said:


> Now I guess I am going to go make some saw dust with my subpar tools and maybe shed a tear over the fact that I will never own anything nice.:sarcastic:


I have seen Amazing things built with some pretty simple tools....!

Keep making sawdust.....


----------



## Jerry Bowen (Jun 25, 2011)

No doubt that amazing work can be and certainly is done with lessor tools, but there is, for me anyway, a real fascination for higher end ones and figuring out how they work. There is a lot to be said for the pride that one can take in having nice tools. Keeping them cleaned up and ready to use can almost be a hobby in itself. Certainly my tools are not top end industrial tools, but for a hobbist what I have are just right for me.

Jerry


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

I sure like my 1950 Unisaw 3 HP motor $400 saw. I am no expert and have a small shop but I have my Unisaw tuned. If you run the a gauge down a miter slot for the full length of the fence it is only .005 out. The blade is .001 out.

I don't think I can get much better in my price range.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

Chris Hachet said:


> Playing thread necromancer as this is a very interesting thread. I currently run a contractors saw (Craftsman) with the router in an extension wing and an Incra Fence. Thinking of a Grizzly 1023 Cabinet saw.
> 
> One certainly can do a good bit of work with a fairly basic saw. :smile:


The most important issue with most saws is the accuracy of the fence and that is usually where the cheap ones are lacking. You can do just as good a job with a cheap one if it is accurate. The big cabinet saws are usually more stable because of the weight and have more power and they usually come with a good fence.


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I made more things, some of them fairly complicated that turned out well, 30 years ago with my very proudly owned Shopsmith Mark 5 (or was it a 7) than I do now with all the modern toys. It's all in the mind of the individual.

HJ


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> The most important issue with most saws is the accuracy of the fence and that is usually where the cheap ones are lacking. You can do just as good a job with a cheap one if it is accurate. The big cabinet saws are usually more stable because of the weight and have more power and they usually come with a good fence.


Power is my basic concern, I really would like to cut 8/4 QSWO and hard maple without the saw bogging down. I cannot see paying an additional $1700 for a saw stop or Powermatic, although they are sweet machines.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

I have the 3hp Unisaw and it will bury a 10" rip blade in dry white birch at a rate of roughly a foot every 3 seconds as a crude guess. 5 seconds tops. I've had some wood sawed into timbers from trees I logged and I like getting one dimension that is 6" so that I can rip 3" from each side to get boards off. That way I can get any thickness I need. Certainly I can cut my lodgepole pine at a rate of 3 seconds per foot.


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

My biggest issues with a Unisaw are the parts (I have heard that Delta parts are becoming well nigh impossible to get) and the fact that every saw on Craigslist that I have looked at has seemingly been through a table saw demolition derby. 

Love the Unisaw, availability of a good saw and parts is the issue. I have looked at older Powermatics, but by the time I buy a Powermatic 66 that is 20 years old and is in Georgia, Illinois, or Massachusetts and looked at getting it back to Ohio and tuned up...

A new Grizley 1023 seems like a nice simple answer...


----------



## honesttjohn (Feb 17, 2015)

I'd order a Grizz in a heartbeat. I think , for the $$, they're one of the better Chinese makes.

I got the 30th anniversary 14" bandsaw. No complaints.

HJ


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

It's the 3hp and the blade, not the make, that will give you the speed you want. At 3 hp I'm pretty sure you are looking at stationary cabinet saws, I think portable contractor saws max out at about 2 hp but the cabinet saws also have beefier parts.

For a rip blade I like a max of 24 teeth. The more teeth, the more power required to turn them. Usually an ATB grind is a little faster too I think but it's nice to have a flat top grind blade for doing flat bottomed grooves and notches when you can't be bothered to switch to a dado.


----------



## MT Stringer (Aug 15, 2012)

honesttjohn said:


> I'd order a Grizz in a heartbeat. I think , for the $$, they're one of the better Chinese makes.
> 
> I got the 30th anniversary 14" bandsaw. No complaints.
> 
> HJ


..and made in Taiwan. Bought my 1023 in 2012, no problems.


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

MT Stringer said:


> ..and made in Taiwan. Bought my 1023 in 2012, no problems.


This makes the difference in being able to upgrade in the next year or maybe never. I can justify $1300 for the Grizzly, I cannot justify $3000 plus for a Saw Stop or a Powermatic. Thanks to everyone who responded, this forum is extremely polite and helpful.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Chris Hachet said:


> My biggest issues with a Unisaw are the parts (I have heard that Delta parts are becoming well nigh impossible to get) and the fact that every saw on Craigslist that I have looked at has seemingly been through a table saw demolition derby.
> 
> Love the Unisaw, availability of a good saw and parts is the issue. I have looked at older Powermatics, but by the time I buy a Powermatic 66 that is 20 years old and is in Georgia, Illinois, or Massachusetts and looked at getting it back to Ohio and tuned up...
> 
> A new Grizley 1023 seems like a nice simple answer...


There are more interchangeable parts for the Unisaw than any other table saw made. The Unisaw was made for over 70 years with the inside parts being the same. There are plenty of parts around maybe not from Delta but you can find them. And 20 years from now there will be more parts readily available for the Unisaw than for any new table saw you buy today.


----------



## Cherryville Chuck (Sep 28, 2010)

coxhaus said:


> There are more interchangeable parts for the Unisaw than any other table saw made. The Unisaw was made for over 70 years with the inside parts being the same. There are plenty of parts around maybe not from Delta but you can find them. And 20 years from now there will be more parts readily available for the Unisaw than for any new table saw you buy today.


I've had my Unisaw for about 20 years and never needed any parts yet. I'm not sure what wears out except bearings and those aren't made by Delta anyway. Lee do you know of any parts that are had to come by that are commonly needed? I've heard that the motors are pretty much a proprietary item and that nothing else is likely to fit but I can always get the original rebuilt if I needed I figure.


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

Cherryville Chuck said:


> I've had my Unisaw for about 20 years and never needed any parts yet. I'm not sure what wears out except bearings and those aren't made by Delta anyway. Lee do you know of any parts that are had to come by that are commonly needed? I've heard that the motors are pretty much a proprietary item and that nothing else is likely to fit but I can always get the original rebuilt if I needed I figure.


New motors can be had off eBay. Baldor also makes a motor which will fit. My original motor was replaced before I bought mine. The only thing wrong with my Unisaw was it would not run 3 belts as the alignment was out. I fixed it and put 3 Gates AX24 belts on it. It runs great. The fence was a little bowed. I fixed it with a good piece of Baltic birch. It is now only .005 out across the whole fence.


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

coxhaus said:


> New motors can be had off eBay. Baldor also makes a motor which will fit. My original motor was replaced before I bought mine. The only thing wrong with my Unisaw was it would not run 3 belts as the alignment was out. I fixed it and put 3 Gates AX24 belts on it. It runs great. The fence was a little bowed. I fixed it with a good piece of Baltic birch. It is now only .005 out across the whole fence.


Okay, I am learning something....time to possibly check for a used unisaw.....


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

coxhaus said:


> There are more interchangeable parts for the Unisaw than any other table saw made. The Unisaw was made for over 70 years with the inside parts being the same. There are plenty of parts around maybe not from Delta but you can find them. And 20 years from now there will be more parts readily available for the Unisaw than for any new table saw you buy today.


Excellent, thank you!


----------



## coxhaus (Jul 18, 2011)

The Unisaw is so tunable and very precise. I had a Rockwell/Delta contractor saw for years. I enjoyed it while I owned it. I really liked it after I upgraded the fence to the old original Delta T2 fence. I never could tune the contractor table saw blade to the top as precisely as the Unisaw. I tried everything including PALs. I don't know if this is a Unisaw feature or all cabinet saws run this precisie. 

I could of recently bought a old Tennessee made one PM66 for cheap money. But I thought what if I bought the saw and I could not tune it as well as my Unisaw.

I bought a old US made Biesemeyer fence cheap which needs some restoring before I fixed the Unisaw fence. Now that my Unisaw fence works so well I think I will take my time before I work on it.


----------



## bryansong (Mar 4, 2015)

MT Stringer said:


> I use my saw every day. The 1023RLW has the cast iron router table extension wing giving me a 48 inch wide work surface if I need it.
> 
> Lately, I have been keeping a 3/8 inch round over bit mounted in the router. I have been rounding over the sides and sometimes the ends, of some of the boards on the projects I have been building. Man, that is great...just rip the board if needed, step to the right two feet and rout the edges and go install it. It just can't get any easier or more convenient.
> 
> ...



I know I'm pretty late commenting on this post but wanted say Mike, this is a pretty sweet setup.
Thanks for the great pictures.

Bryan


----------



## Chris Hachet (Dec 25, 2016)

And as a follow up to this thread I found a very inexpensive but decently maintained Unisaw for about a third the price of the Grizzly. Everything was there including the dust door and motor cover. Ran the serial # and it is summer of 1973 and still is in good shape. 

Now I need to figure who gets my money for a Band saw. Been looking at Grizzley, Laguna, Powermatic, vintage iron...


----------

