# BOSCH 1617EVS mounting on a router table



## ironman21 (Mar 2, 2018)

Hi folks,

I'm a woodworking beginner (or not even a beginner) and a newbie to this forum. I noticed BOSCH 1617EVS is a recommended router with quite positive reviews, and I'm thinking to buy this as my first router.

I plan to make a router table and mount the router. A question I have is, to mount the router seems an insert plate must be installed and it can't be made from home. Considering the price of insert plate on Amazon, is it still a good option to build router table myself or buy a one from the market, in terms of cost? And is this a good router designed to be mounted upside down the table?

Thank you very much


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## Semipro (Mar 22, 2013)

Hello and welcome to the router forum.

The BOSCH 1617EVS is a excellent router to mount in a table, having a insert is a very good option they come in Various sizes and types and a great difference in prices. There are a lot threads-on the forum dealing with the subject. 

I am sure the members will be along to help you.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

*Yes!!!*

Hey, Ironman; welcome!

Yes on the 1617, but as you've probably already learned, the Bosch 1617 comes as the* 
EVS *version... fixed base, or the *EVSPK* which comes with both the fixed and PLUNGE base.

The regulars here are tired of my repeating myself 😉 but it needs to be said, buy the combination package! You can't do everything on a table. Somethings, signage for example, you need face up to work on. Same applies to doing some things like mortises and dadoes on large panels. Just waaaay easier with a plunge router right side up.

By the way, if you'd like to hang around with us, can we call you by something? John is popular as is Mike... Please fill in a little about yourself in the profile area over on the left. Just click on Ironman and it'll open up for you.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Welcome to the forum N/a. A first name in your profile is always nice, unless you prefer Ironman.

If I could do it all again I’d purchase a nice solid aluminum plate like Incras, and build a table and fence from scratch, so I think you have the right idea.

I’ll let the experts give you advice though, as I’m still in the learning phase myself.

I took the easy way out and bought the table top ,fence and plate from Incra, with intentions of building the base myself. This way I can personalize the design for the dust collection area and router bit drawers.

But I feel much more confident than I did when I joined, and would scratch build most of it now if I hadn’t purchased most of it already


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

@ironman21 - I've got a Bosch 1617 mounted in a router table. I purchased the 1617EVSPK which came with both the fixed base and the plunge base. I attached the fixed base to a Kreg router plate in a home made table. I can easily pull the motor and attach the plunge base for hand held routing. If you're going to purchase a Bosch, I suggest you get the kit with both fixed and plunge bases. For my setup I bought the Kreg levelers which meant I didn't have to route a rabbet around the opening. However, there are many instances of plates sitting in rabbeted openings without the need for the levelers. As was said, there are many threads here dealing with cutting openings in a table top for insertion of a router plate.

Here's a link to the levelers. I bought mine at Lee Valley Tools near my home town.

*https://www.kregtool.com/store/c41/routing-accessories/p148/precision-router-table-insert-plate-levelers/*


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

vchiarelli said:


> @ironman21 - I've got a Bosch 1617 mounted in a router table. I purchased the 1617EVSPK which came with both the fixed base and the plunge base. I attached the fixed base to a Kreg router plate in a home made table. I can easily pull the motor and attach the plunge base for hand held routing. If you're going to purchase a Bosch, I suggest you get the kit with both fixed and plunge bases. For my setup I bought the Kreg levelers which meant I didn't have to route a rabbet around the opening. However, there are many instances of plates sitting in rabbeted openings without the need for the levelers. As was said, there are many threads here dealing with cutting openings in a table top for insertion of a router plate.
> 
> Here's a link to the levelers. I bought mine at Lee Valley Tools near my home town.
> 
> https://www.kregtool.com/store/c41/...precision-router-table-insert-plate-levelers/




Those are pretty cool,Vince, Hadn't seen those before. Thanks for posting.
Herb


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## ironman21 (Mar 2, 2018)

Danin and all, thank you so much for your warm welcome and good advice!

I do know that there is another model EVSPK with both fixed and plunge base. However, if I plan to mount it onto a table, it's not so convenient to take it off frequently and use the plunge base? unless I have another router with plunge base? Let's my understanding. So looks you are suggesting to have one table mounted and another plunge based?

I'll fill up more details in the profile.

Thanks again.




DaninVan said:


> Hey, Ironman; welcome!
> Yes on the 1617, but as you've probably already learned, the Bosch 1617 comes as the* EVS *version...fixed base, or the *EVSPK* which comes with both the fixed and PLUNGE base.
> The regulars here are tired of my repeating myself 😉 but it needs to be said, buy the combination package! You can't do everything on a table. Somethings, signage for example, you need face up to work on. Same applies to doing some things like mortises and dadoes on large panels. Just waaaay easier with a plunge router right side up.
> By the way, if you'd like to hang around with us, can we call you by something? John is popular as is Mike...
> Please fill in a little about yourself in the profile area over on the left. Just click on Ironman and it'll open up for you.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

I think Kreg has a modest priced mounting plate made of phenolic plastic. I prefer aluminum. Cutting the opening is usually done with a jig saw in a one or preferably two layers of very flat ply. You put the plate where you want it and set four flat boards around it as shown in the drawing. Use playing cards to add just a little wiggle room or you'll have problems getting the plate in or out later. You cut out the rough opening an eighth of an inch smaller, then use a trim bit with a bearing on the base to rout the opening using the four boards as a guide you run the bearing against. This will give you a very nice opening. Here are a couple of illustrations. It is easier than you think it will be and will give you a little practice. I hope Stick will post his collection of pdfs shortly. Read them! Great information.

I prefer a two layer table, with the second or bottom layer made of MDF or fery flat ply. Glue the two together. Personally, I'd cut the opening in the second layer a half inch smaller on all 4 sides to give yourself a shelf or rabbet the plate will sit on. The leveling screws are for bringing the plate precisely level with the top. Better to have the mounting plate slightly higher than have it even slightly lower.

I added a picture of my choice of mounting plate, made by Woodpecker, which has simple twist lock inserts (the red rings). Most cheaper mounting plates have screws holding the inserts, which are easy to lose and annoying to mess with. I think Kreg now has this kind of twist lock plate.

You don't need a formal table to hold the top, you can put it across a couple of saw horses. But if you're interested in some early projects you can make a simple cabinet. BTW, I think you have to order a metal key to adjust the Bosch's height from above the table. It's cheap.

For a fence, you can simply use a very straight section of knot free 2x4 (kiln dried). Cut an opening by pulling it into the router (slowly). Later you're going to want to. Later I'll post a long piece on getting started. Hopefully it will get you going without spending a ton of money. Hope this helps


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

Simon the reason I mention Incra is for dust control . Although I’m sure other brands work to a point .
I like there inserts, and they make clean sweep ones also , so you can eliminate more dust.

*https://www.incra.com/router_system_accessories-mlp.html*

*http://www.incrementaltools.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=INC-CSRING-SINGLE*

You don’t need to buy there box for underneath, as you can design that yourself, but the clean sweep inserts would be nice .


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

I really like my Kreg pocket hole jig . Not a lot of money and very handy for many applications.
It’s being used in these videos . There’s several segments you can watch. 
There’s a thousand ways to build a router table , but I like this guy’s ideas ,and it’s a good watch


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## ironman21 (Mar 2, 2018)

Tom, thank you for your sharing - much useful information. I'll need to spend more time on the router to understand the basics. Though I know some parts, I never owned a router and router table. Budget is always a concern as I tend to be conservative until I really know what I need.



DesertRatTom said:


> I think Kreg has a modest priced mounting plate made of phenolic plastic. I prefer aluminum. Cutting the opening is usually done with a jig saw in a one or preferably two layers of very flat ply. You put the plate where you want it and set four flat boards around it as shown in the drawing. Use playing cards to add just a little wiggle room or you'll have problems getting the plate in or out later. You cut out the rough opening an eighth of an inch smaller, then use a trim bit with a bearing on the base to rout the opening using the four boards as a guide you run the bearing against. This will give you a very nice opening. Here are a couple of illustrations. It is easier than you think it will be and will give you a little practice. I hope Stick will post his collection of pdfs shortly. Read them! Great information.
> 
> I prefer a two layer table, with the second or bottom layer made of MDF or fery flat ply. Glue the two together. Personally, I'd cut the opening in the second layer a half inch smaller on all 4 sides to give yourself a shelf or rabbet the plate will sit on. The leveling screws are for bringing the plate precisely level with the top. Better to have the mounting plate slightly higher than have it even slightly lower.
> 
> ...


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

ironman21 said:


> Danin and all, thank you so much for your warm welcome and good advice!
> 
> I do know that there is another model EVSPK with both fixed and plunge base. However, if I plan to mount it onto a table, *it's not so convenient to take it off frequently and use the plunge base*? unless I have another router with plunge base? Let's my understanding.
> So looks you are suggesting to have one table mounted and another plunge based?
> ...


Simon, the Bosch 1617 is easily removed from the fixed base under a table - a couple of seconds to do that and goes in just as easily. You'll find that most members here have more than one router - some have *A LOT* of routers. The reason for that is simple - multiple routers avoid the need to keep changing bits, as some will leave bits that are frequently used in "a" router. But if you are just starting out with routers and have the funds, a router with both fixed and plunge bases is the way to go.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Welcome to the Forum. Glad you have joined the fun. The following has been posted before so those who have read it before may wish to skip it.

These are the 17+ things that really helped me get going with woodworking. Hope it helps you as much as they did me.

1) If you are using Firefox browser, get a free add on YouTube download helper app. Search for videos on all aspects of woodworking that interest you and collect them. I watch a video on the topic of whatever project, or phase of a project, on which I'm currently working. VERY helpful to see it done a few times before you try it yourself. 

My downloader puts a download button under the video on YouTube. Click the button, name the file (I always label it according to the tool or job it works on. For example, anything to do with routing, I label as "Router", which clusters all the similar videos together in Windows Explorer. All my videos go into a single folder. I sometimes watch woodworking video while on planes, which triggers some interesting conversations.

2) There are hundreds of used books on woodworking on Amazon. Order some on basic tools and woodworking. You'll need to learn to tune up saws and other tools, and books are how I learned to do these things. It wasn't until I tuned up my saws that good results began to happen. My saws cut exactly 90 and 45, or any angle I need now. Two books I really love are Bill Hylton’s “Woodworking with the Router,” and “The Joint Book” by Terrie Noll. The Noll Book is a really concise and heavily illustrated reference with great hints for making every variety of joints. There are lots of good table saw guides.

3) I made some of my first projects with MDF and ordinary plywood before using more expensive material. Make the same project several times with improved skill, material and workmanship each time. Great learning method. These days I use Baltic Birch ply whenever possible. Cost a little more, but superior in every way.

4) Consider making cabinets or stands for each of your power tools as first projects. My first cabinet was of MDF and my sander and all my sanding gear still sit on and in it. I can't tell you how much confidence I got from building space efficient shop stands and now, all the tools in my smallish shop are on casters and easily moved around for use and cleanup. I put doors on every cabinet to reduce wandering dust and to master making face frames and doors. BTW, if you add casters, use two non swivels on the back and two locking casters on the front--make sure the lock secures both the wheel rotation and the swivel so your carts don't skip around in use. My shop made stands also take up far less floor space than the spread-legged ones that come with many tools, which makes it far easier to move tools around in a compact shop--which is necessary to clean out the insidious sawdust.

5) Many of the woodworking supply stores in Canada and the US (and I imagine overseas) have demos on weekends. Attend and get to know the people you meet there. They can turn you on to sources of wood and you can get some nice help and begin a friendship or two. Don’t forget to talk with the employees as well. At our local Rockler, several of the employees are serious and experienced woodworkers and always eager to help. I’ve also found some of the big box stores employ a few very experienced wood workers, carpenters, electricians and plumbers. You just have to start a brief conversation, if they seem knowledgeable, ask them about what they did before they worked at the store, that will get the conversation flowing.

6) Among your first purchases should be some form of dust control. Many woods are proven carcinogens and can quickly, permanently damage your lungs. Dust collection information is on this site. I started with a 4-inch, home-made system to collect sawdust (see update below). I also have and recommend a dust mask with a small fan that pulls in pressurized air that not only keeps dust out, but also keeps my glasses from fogging. Got mine at Rockler and I keep a couple of sets of rechargeable AA batteries ready to use. 

UPDATE: After spending a LOT of money trying to make my own dust collection system work, I bought a 4 inch/100mm, 2hp unit from Harbor Freight, available for as little as $160 on sale, using a 25% off coupon. It collects the sawdust in a plastic bag which is easier and far less messy for disposal. I would have been money ahead to have bought it in the first place. There are many dust collection machines out there and I wouldn’t go the home-made route again. To enhance the system I turned a fiber barrel (from Uline) into a chip collector. There are many versions of this, but they are all placed before the DC blower. All sawdust and chips spin around in the barrel so the heavier material and loose screws and metal bits fall out. The barrel captures the largest share of sawdust and spares the blower blades. Look up Thein baffle on YouTube for details.

For cutting just a piece or two, I keep surgical style disposable masks handy. I also built a box with 20x20 filter inside and a fan that pulls air through to remove fine airborne dust over time. You can even tape a filter to the back of a fan in a pinch, but WEN makes a nifty filter meant for this task, and the price is reasonable. Don't take your mask off right after cutting or cleaning up because there is always dust floating around for awhile. If you start coughing, it means you need to pay very close attention to dust control and wearing a mask. It takes months to recover from a bout of working unprotected with MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) without a mask. 

Chop and miter saws are usually the worst sawdust scattering offender in the shop. My solution was to use a clear plastic shower curtain that wraps around the saw and catches most of the sawdust that drops down into a collection box. Don’t force your cut on this kind of saw since that seems to make the scatter even worse. Pull the blade across the workpiece toward you for a shallow cut, then deepen the cut pushing the blade away. This channels most of the sawdust backwards into your collection system. 

I also use my dust collection system with a sweeper attachment to clean up the floor. It has one long, 4-inch flex hose that moves from tool to tool. My router fence has a 2.5 inch port behind the bit, on the fence. There is also a 4 inch port on the box that contains the router under the table. You can find an adapter that has a Y shape, one arm attaches to the 4 inch collector hose, the other connector goes to the fence port. It helps a lot. The problem with sawdust on the router table is that it can lift the workpiece up slightly as it builds up so your cuts will be off. You must sweep this stray sawdust away frequently, so keep a wide brush handy. Blowing sawdust away just launches it airborne so you wind up breathing it in. Fine sawdust stays in your lungs—a very bad thing!

7) Take your sweet time with projects, there's no rush and it is easy to have a project nearly complete, then make a careless, quick cut or other error that ruins all your good work. In most cases, it is best to fit pieces by putting them in place and marking rather than just measuring and cutting. Cut a bit over and shave the piece down using a good block plane for an exact fit. A good block plane, nice and sharp, is a basic tool you'll use more often than you’d imagine.

8) Buy the very best table saw you can manage. It will quickly become the most used tool in your shop. A little debt could move you up a notch and help you produce better results and cut thicker wood. Get the best tools you can afford and set them up as precisely as you can. You’ll find instructions in your used book collection or on YouTube. Read the reviews and ask questions on the forum before you choose. To me, it is worth it to use credit if necessary to move up the quality scale for the table saw. 

Bosch offers a small, construction type table saw that members here agree is head and shoulders above other saws in its class. If your shop or budget is a little tight, this saw gets good reviews from members, and I believe that you can get refurbished models that are truly like new from CPO tools.

There are models called hybrid saws that have the mechanical works attached to the cabinet rather than the top, which is good. I replaced my old Delta contractor saw with a Laguna Fusion saw. My shop is not wired for 220, so I was happy with the 110volt, 1 3/4 hp motor. Many forum members have been very happy with less expensive models, Grizzly for example, but I prefer the Laguna for its amazingly flat table and extensions and its fit and finish (and reasonable price when on sale). Learn to set up and tune up your saws and tools (books and videos show you how) because you can’t make anything great if your tools are even slightly off. Many people prefer the Saw Stop because it all but eliminates the risk of cutting off a digit, but you’ll pay about twice the price of otherwise equal saws. 

Until you get a good table saw, you can get fair results using a circular saw and a straight edge. A home made straight edge is made by attaching a 1x straight edged board to a piece of hard particle type board (Masonite in the US). Run the saw along the 1x to cut off the excess and to form a perfectly straight edge. This will also reduce chipout or rough edges. The finished jig will be 250-300 mm wide (10-12 inches), by about 5 ft. long (150 cm). Not long ago I bought a Triton track saw that’s great for breaking down sheet plywood, but a decent table saw comes first in my book.

The best safety device is paying very close attention to what you’re doing with a saw, but a close second on the table saw is a MicroJig Gripper, which lets you control wood on the saw while keeping your fingers safely away from the blade. There is a fancy and a simpler model, either of which is good. I have two to walk long pieces through my saw smoothly, but usually only need one.

Band saw add on: Recently bought a Laguna 14/Twelve band saw primarily for resawing. It is a beauty and was on sale to boot. I keep a smaller 12 inch Rikon in the shop for minor cutoffs or curves. If you're making furniture with heavier or shaped hardwood parts, a good, 14 inch or larger band saw is a must. My tools are divided between my shop/shed and garage. Garage tools are for wood prep; band saw, jointer, planer, dust collector and the track saw. In my shed, I have a 12 inch bench band saw distributed by WEN tools that is a a little cheaper, but identical to the Rikon. 

9) If you can, get an electrician to add a 220 outlet or two to your shop. If you set up in the garage, you may be able to use the electrical outlet for the dryer. There are many tools that require 220 volts to work best, and many used 220 v tools are available at really good prices--if you feel comfortable buying used. Another tool source is to visit estate sales. Every once in awhile, you find tools no one else in the family desires or knows the value of, so you can get them cheap.

If you don't have a router yet, I have come to like the Triton TRA001, which is perfect for table use, particularly since you can adjust height quite precisely from the above the table with its built in lift. That feature really saves my knees. However, it is just too heavy for this old guy to control freehand. I really like the Bosch 1617 EVSPK for hand held use. There is a newer model that has a light and switch on the handle that costs more. Both come in a kit with fixed and plunge base. The 1617 can serve in a table just fine. Bosch has many accessories available that are very well made. Others like different brands, but Mike recently checked in on the topic and compared a variety of brands and the Bosch came out ahead. I prefer the raising and lowering mechanism on the Bosch with its precise micro adjustment knob. The Bosch fixed base can be used as a lift in a table. The books on routers and other topics are really useful for understanding some of the arcane woodworking terms associated with this must-have tool. 

As you get into making cabinets, at some point you may wish to get a smaller “trim” router, such as the Bosch Colt or DeWalt 611. These only use ¼ inch shaft bits, but they are very light and can handle light duty work. 

10) When it comes to router bits, try to stick to the half inch (12mm) shafts with carbide cutting tips. These are astonishingly sharp. Bosch and Freud are easily available at HD or online, but there are lots of other excellent brands including the well liked Whiteside and Sommerfeld bits. Be careful of those ultra sharp carbide tips, which are fragile. I'd suggest storing them in one of those foam lined cases you can get pretty cheap from Harbor Freight, loosely packed so they don't click together. A few of the cheap bits don’t have carbide tips. Spiral bits are sometimes used to cut grooves. Carbide spiral bits are both expensive and fragile and it takes very little abuse to ruin them. Many prefer high speed steel bits for that particular purpose.

I buy bits as I need them and don't much care for large kits. However, someone recently suggested getting a kit to start out with, then gradually replacing only the bits you actually use with top grade bits. This makes some sense to me, but stick to the half inch shafts if you can manage it--most kits I’ve seen have 1/4 inch shafts. I would avoid huge sets with odd bits you are unlikely ever to use. A few standard bits most of us have are the round over bits. You can get them in different sizes, but mostly you’re likely to use the quarter, half and ¾ sizes. Another bit that is very useful for cabinetry is the half inch rabbiting bit with a bearing. Some come with a changable bearing that allows you to change the depth of the rabbit. Doing fancier stuff makes those cash register numbers spin because door bit sets, for example, are pricey! 

I have settled in on Sommerfeld matched bit sets for doors and other multi-bit uses. Set the first bit in the set and you can change bits without readjusting router height. Watch Marc Sommerfeld’s videos on YouTube, they show superb router technique by a guy with years of cabinet making experience. I use his hint to drop a half inch grommet into your router collet so the bit height is consistent, but not bottomed out. I noticed that Freud now also markets matched bit sets. I suspect these are very good as well.

One more thing about using bits, don’t try to take off too much wood in one pass. Make several passes taking a little more wood with each pass. Pay attention to the grain of the wood (that is covered in most books on routing) with a final pass just shaving and making for a very smooth finish. My personal rule is to cut no more than 1/8 th of an inch per pass. The larger the bit, the slower you should set the speed control. 

11) The most useful item I own for my saws is a Wixey digital angle gauge, which allows me to set up all my saws to exact angles (eg: 90 degrees to the table). It wasn't until I started being meticulous about this that my projects started working out right. These are about $30 on Amazon. I also have a Wixey digital height gauge on my planer—a real joy to use.

12) Pocket Hole jig and construction. Although there are many ways to make cabinets and face frames, I have found that pocket hole screws have really made making them easier. Just remember, coarse threads for soft woods, fine thread for hard woods, and I find the square head easier to drive correctly than the Phillips type. My Kreg pocket hole jig is mounted on a chunk of plywood that I can clamp down. The thing makes a lot of sawdust so dust collection is a good idea. I also find that with careful, exact 90 degree end cuts to the wood, the pocket hole approach produces absolutely square cabinets and face frames. You’ll want a couple of face clamps and a Kreg right angle clamp if you use pocket hole joinery on cases. There are many helpful videos on this jig and it is not very expensive as tools go. Most of us limit pocket holes to areas that don’t show.

13) Make a table saw sled (lots of YouTube videos on how to) for perfect 90 degree cuts on your table saw. I had a little more money than time, so I bought the sled Rockler makes that has a swinging fence and a very precise angle scale. I love that thing and set up a special shelf right next to my table saw to store it and keep it flat. Cross cuts on the sled are wonderfully exact and it prevents most tear out, the ragged or splintered area at the end of a cut. The sled is also a much safer way to cut short pieces as well. You set the sled to a precise 90 or 45 angle using a drafting square. 

Most saws come with a miter gauge, but I prefer one of the precision gauges. Many forum members like Incra’s gauge (me too). Precision is important with gauges. 

You will read a LOT about jigs here and in your books and videos. Jigs, accurate T squares, a good straightedge are all incredibly useful for producing good work. The more I venture into really good hard wood construction, the more I appreciate how jigs produce accurate results without wasting expensive wood through mis-cuts. Most of us make jigs as we need them, but one jig you will really love is a Table Saw Sled. Look up one of dozens of versions on YouTube.

14) I had a lot of problems with tear out at first, but most of that stopped when I started using a sacrificial backup block to push the last bit of a piece through the router or saw. I often use square pieces of MDF (medium density fiberboard) because it is cheap and stays flat. When it gets torn up, I just cut off a chunk and use what’s left. Really helps! You can do the same with any piece by putting a backer board behind where the cut goes--you cut through the piece first, the backer last. You may also want to use feather boards to hold boards in correct alignment to the fence and blade or bit. You can buy these or make your own. The commercial ones have the first “tooth” cut a little short to indicate how far the feather board should overlap the work piece.

Zero Clearance Inserts for the table saw: On the table saw, buy or make blank inserts to make zero clearance inserts (see YouTube for how to do it). Basically they are solid and you raise the blade up through them so the opening is just the width of the blade. This really helps make great, tear-out free cuts. I also found that I wanted to push that last quarter inch through the bit too fast, now I feed the piece at a steady pace all through the cut. 

15) Clamps: The joke is you can never have too many clamps. The ones I use most are about $3 each at Harbor Freight, about 9 inch F clamps (they look like an F). I have 18 of them. The same source has longer versions up to 24 inches and I keep 4 to 6 of the 18 and 24 inch models. I have four sets of two of 24 to 60 inch (Jet) parallel clamps for making really square cabinets and other items where holding things square for glue up is important. The better the quality of bar clamps, the thicker and stronger the bar will be. I’ve all but given up on plastic clamps, but have a few that look like scissors for lightly holding things together or down. Depending on what you’re making, a few wooden hand screw clamps could be useful, including holding small parts for safer routing. I recently added a couple of special steel C clamps that have a 12 inch open throat. Very handy item! Not long ago, I found Bessy clamps in sets of 4 for $20 to $30 at big box stores. I prefer using the Bessy clamps because they have heavier bars.

16) Hand planes and hand tools: Learning to use these is something of an art, as is proper sharpening and setting of their blades. There are lots of woodworkers who really love working with hand tools, most will suggest you buy used and clean and tune them up--which is actually quite fun. I prefer just to buy new and really like the Wood River V3 brand for its quality and acceptable price. Rob Cosman has videos online about planes, their preparation, care and uses. Another hand tool purest worth watching is Paul Sellers.

Chisels are important particularly if you are making furniture. Sharpening chisels is a basic skill involving many ultra fine grits of sandpaper, ultra flat surfaces, maybe diamond grit sharpening stones—arcane stuff, but anything less than a razor sharp chisel is pretty useless. Don’t scrimp on chisels, cheap ones get dull fast. Look up “Scarey Sharp” methods on YouTube, it takes patience but not much money to work sharp. I recently bought a diamond sharpening device with diamond dust imbedded in a nickel steel plate. It has small cut out ovals so the metal grit doesn't clog the diamond surface. Use these sparingly and use one of the specialty diamond sharpening lubricants with it. I use this for quick sharpening touch ups, just 4-5 strokes will do. It’s a little easier to use than the sand paper method, which I save for major sharpening tasks. The most important thing is to flatten the back of the first inch or so of the chisel. Unless that is flat, you can’t sharpen a chisel or plane blade (iron) accurately. You do this only once.

The one plane every shop should have is a small, low angle block plane. These have so many uses that’s it is hard to list them all, but they are really great for trimming up ends of workpieces, quickly rounding over edges without having to set up a router, fine fitting the length of a board. New ones can be had in decent quality for about $100 and up. Nearly all planes require being tuned up before they are any good. You can look this process up on YouTube. Cheap block planes are passable if you really work them over first, but most won’t hold an edge very well and some are not milled accurately and will never cut right.

There are dozens of different kinds of planes, but for anything serious you should have a #4 1/2. which will do a lot of different tasks fairly well. I personally really enjoy using planes and have at least seven for various special uses.

Misc. tool stuff. Once you start using hard and expensive woods, you’ll probably want to add three other shop tools. A drill press, jointer and planer. The drill press allows drilling perfectly vertical holes and can help you produce mortise and tennon joints. A good bench model will set you back a couple of hundred bucks. 

The Jointer lets you cut a perfectly flat surface on your wood. The planer lets you use that flat surface and cut a perfectly parallel flat surface on the other side. You can get a “lunchbox” style planer, but a really good jointer (at least 6 inches wide), is quite expensive. The benchtop models of jointers are mostly pretty limited. The floor models are very heavy, solid steel and a machined table that’s quite long. But these tools let you leave the big box stores warped, cracked bowed and twisted dimensional lumber behind. Look up these tools on YouTube to learn more.

17) If you have a dedicated shop space, take the time and trouble to insulate it. You will enjoy working in it much more if you're not roasting or freezing. I installed a middle sized window AC unit through a shop shed wall for relief from our desert summer and it is now even more of a pleasure to be out there. Insulation also holds in heat during winter. A couple of heaters bring the temp up, but just one keeps it comfortable after that. Cold fingers are clumsy, not good around spinning blades! I recently had the garage shop insulated and dry walled. Much nicer to work in there these days.

Finally, Stick suggests that you use the Forum’s archives when you have questions. There is a wealth of answers to any questions you might have. He also cautions about using one word search terms, which can return massive amounts of information. Here’s the link: https://archive.org/

Woodworking is not necessarily a cheap hobby. Wood can be costly, so are decent tools, And there's hardware, stuff for jigs, dust collection and on and on as you get going. My good wood supplier is 60 miles away, so I often work in decent local pine and plywood with as many layers as I can find. I found some decent plywood at HD. Before long you will hear how superior Baltic Birch is to the best of HD ply, but you have to ferret out a decent source. Chinese made birch ply is generally no match for the real stuff, which, when you cut it shows no voids inside. To me the 60 miles is a small price to pay to work with Baltic Birch ply and beautiful hard woods.

This has run pretty long, but I think the information is helpful for someone new to the hobby. The suggestions represent a LOT of trial and error. And yes, you can spend a lot getting set up, but most of us built up our shop and tools over time, more than a decade for me. Beside that, my wife likes me being around, but busy out in the shop.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Simon's a(nother) Canuck, and a Westerner to boot! Welcome again, to the circled wagons, Simon...


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## ironman21 (Mar 2, 2018)

Rick, this looks cool. If the dust control can be as good as the video, it's too good to be ture! 



RainMan 2.0 said:


> Simon the reason I mention Incra is for dust control . Although I’m sure other brands work to a point .
> I like there inserts, and they make clean sweep ones also , so you can eliminate more dust.
> 
> You don’t need to buy there box for underneath,as you can design that yourself, but the clean sweep inserts would be nice .


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## ironman21 (Mar 2, 2018)

There is a good deal on 1617EVS at $168 CAD which makes me thinking to buy it now, and if later i need a plunge base router (I believe that will be quite sometime later and by that time i should have some more knowledge on routers) I could buy one. hesitating... 



vchiarelli said:


> Simon, the Bosch 1617 is easily removed from the fixed base under a table - a couple of seconds to do that and goes in just as easily. You'll find that most members here have more than one router - some have *A LOT* of routers. The reason for that is simple - multiple routers avoid the need to keep changing bits, as some will leave bits that are frequently used in "a" router. But if you are just starting out with routers and have the funds, a router with both fixed and plunge bases is the way to go.


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## RainMan 2.0 (May 6, 2014)

ironman21 said:


> There is a good deal on 1617EVS at $168 CAD which makes me thinking to buy it now, and if later i need a plunge base router (I believe that will be quite sometime later and by that time i should have some more knowledge on routers) I could buy one. hesitating...


Simon if your budget allows , your going to want more than one router in the future . Leave one mounted in a table , and also have a plunge router .

I have five routers now . My Makita plunge router stays in a base that makes perfect circles, I have a PC690 in my table saw extension , a FesTool 1400 for plunge routing , and a few PC7518-2 motors only for a future router table . PC stands for Porter Cable if your wondering .
I’ve been told by the expert here that Porter Cables quality has down hill in recent years , so stay with Bosch or Triton. I think he works for Bosch though lol


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## rwl7532 (Sep 8, 2011)

My Triton is merely mounted on a 24" x 36" piece of MDF with a hole in it. My plate is still uninstalled somewhere. You just need this bare minimum and a fence to start routing!


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## Barry747 (Jun 16, 2011)

Simon, I have had the Bosch 1617EVSPK for a number of years. It is my only router. When I first started in woodworking I used the router in a table just about all the time. I still do most of my routing on the router table. However, as I got more comfortable with the router, and took on more difficult projects, I now use it with the plunge base fairly often. It was well worth the investment.

You seem concerned about the time it takes to remove the router from the table. I have the Bosch router table and stand. I can mount or remove the router from the table in about 30 seconds. It's not a big deal. If I were to do it over again, I'd either build my table or buy a better table than the Bosch. It's not bad but there are better ones out there.


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## mjadams61 (Dec 24, 2015)

*https://www.ereplacementparts.com/adapter-plate-p-122511.html*

Why not get one made for your Bosch router including the hole for making above table adjustments. I did before deciding to go the Jessem rout-r-lift II route.


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## pusserboy (Mar 4, 2018)

I'm in Montreal

If starting off:
1- Bosch 1617EVS router ( if still on sale ) the best
2- home made router table check them out on youtube 
3- bought plate or home made
4- Bosch-RA1165-Under-Table-Router-Above-Table adjusting key ( Amazon.ca for $81.89 ) which lowers and raises the router this will allow you to take the router out from under the table without removing any screws and put it in the fixed base that came with the router this Bosch-RA1165 will be your router lift.
5- If you buy a bosch plate that will be the best if you get another company you will have to drill your own holes

Hope this helps you out
Stuart


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## Hypnotoad (Apr 17, 2018)

DaninVan said:


> You can't do everything on a table. Somethings, signage for example, you need face up to work on. Same applies to doing some things like mortises and dadoes on large panels. Just waaaay easier with a plunge router right side up.


Couldn't agree more, that was my excuse to buy another router. :smile:


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## pusserboy (Mar 4, 2018)

mjadams61
The site you put up for Bosch parts is great for the prices but they don't take orders from Canada but the person gave me a number for Canadians 1-801-938-8033 of course I could not check it out because they are closed. They are open weekdays only (west coast).

Come Monday I'll be on the phone
Stuart


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey, Stuart; who are they? I might have done business with them in the past. The Bosch repair depot (I went to) is out in Burnaby, just off Gilmore. If it's the same folks, I like doing business with them.


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## pusserboy (Mar 4, 2018)

DaninVan

The person did not give me a name of any company just a phone number, I will be calling there today to see what the name of the company is and checkout their web. I want to see what the prices are.

Stuart


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

So, now you've gotten a lot of feedback on routers. Keeping it simple is a good idea.

I started with the EVSPK kit, and a Rockler table with their router lift. What I have now is a Triton TRA001 in the table and a 1617 in each base, the fixed and the plunge. Those are for freehand work now. Later on, I added a Bosch Colt, which is a small, 1 hp trim router that only accepts 1/4 inch shaft bits. I find myself using the handy Colt whenever I can.

I've described making a multi layer top in a previous post, and someone mentioned the height adjustment gadget. You can build a stand for your table using pocket screws and a sheet of 4x8 plywood (get ply with as many layers as possible - about $50). You can use a circular saw and straight edge to cut the pieces apart. Pocket screws by Kreg include the jig, drill bit, but no clamps, the basic kit goes for about $120. To make sure the pieces are set to 90 degrees, you can find right angle steel braces at a big box store for a few dollars, you place these on the inside of the pieces you're joining, then clamp them in place. Some folks add glue, but pocket screws are amazing strong and ridgid. Set them about 5-6 inches apart. Make a 3 sided table with a shelf 15 to 18 inches from the top, and a second, bottom sheet on which you can mount casters, or even just blocks in the corners. 

Next comes a fence. This need be nothing more than a VERY STRAIGHT 2x4 or 2x6, preferably with a cut out area where the bit fits. Cut down the ends a little so you can clamp them down. (Harbor Freight has F clamps for $3 each.) If you want to get a little fancier and facilitate dust extraction, make the fence from four 1x4 lengths of straight wood. Glue and nail these into a long box, on one end get a 2 1/2" hose fitting, put a hose on it and attach that to a shop vac or other dust collection unit. Nothing fancy, or expensive, just practical so you can put your tool to use.

Your very next tool pruchase should be a table saw. If budget is tight, consider a Bosch portable contractor saw. Model 4100 gets real praise around here and is more versatile than most portable jobsite saws ($600 or less). There are many things you really can't do without a table saw. It is the centerpiece of most shops and worth using a credit card to buy if necessary. Compare prices online. I don't much like the large rising stand made for it and would rather put it on a simple shop-made stand, or even a folding banquet table. There are other brands, but I think the gang here generally agree the 4100 is a winner. If you want something to be straight, you will find yourself using the saw. And, get a Wixey digital angle gauge and check the blade angle every time you set up a cut ($30).

At the minimum, you should ALWAYS wear some kind of mask in your shop area. 3M makes an acceptable one with a one way valve for the exhale. I keep disposable medical type masks around as well as a battery powered ventilated mask (about $70). Sawdust is very nasty stuff and gets everwhere.

A word about wood. I would avoid using MDF. The dust is overwhelming and if it gets in your lungs, it will stay there. Big box stores sell wood, but you may have to go through every piece in the rack to find one that isn't twisted, warped, cracked (cheked), bowed, crooked or some other fault. For many applications using a piece of ply cut on a table saw will give you a straight, flat piece of stock.

As always, a little long, but I like details.


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## mjadams61 (Dec 24, 2015)

pusserboy said:


> DaninVan
> 
> The person did not give me a name of any company just a phone number, I will be calling there today to see what the name of the company is and checkout their web.
> I want to see what the prices are.
> Stuart


I do know the 1617EVS router with the fix base at least down here at the home depot I went and look at has the base you need and the allen key to use on the router plate

"Includes Bosch 1617EVS 2-1/4 HP Variable-Speed Router, RA1161 fixed base, 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch self-releasing collets, drop-forged wrenches, chip shield, above-table height-adjustment wrench, and mounting hardware"

I think that base is for if you just have the plunge router.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Marlin; the *EVS* has only the fixed base...doesn't matter who you get it from. The *EVSPK* has both the fixed and the plunge bases. Our point was that if you buy the *EVS* version, you're gonna bleed through the nose when you realize that _you do actually want the plunge base as well_, and have to buy it as an accessory. You would be correct if you guessed the VOE! Ouch.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Get a router with better dust CHUTE*

Martin,
Do consider the DEWALT DW618PK 12-AMP 2-1/4 HP Plunge and Fixed-Base Variable-Speed Router Kit

Personally I would prefer the Dewalts for SUPERIOR DUST collection design.
I have a clone of the the Dewalts 621 and under the router table Dust is almost zero by simply connecting a shopvac to the built-in chute.

BOSCH, TRITON etc all have inferior dust chute design. Then they worry about MDF dusts...


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

reuelt said:


> Martin,
> 1... Do consider the DEWALT DW618PK 12-AMP 2-1/4 HP Plunge and Fixed-Base Variable-Speed Router Kit
> 
> Personally I would prefer the Dewalts for SUPERIOR DUST collection design.
> ...


1... till you need CS and parts in a few years and that router has issues w/ wood chips getting/falling into it and destroying the pick up sensor which you will be repairing at your own expense (could not find the thread on this)...

2... Bosch DC, inferior, no, not even... you do know that Bosch has some most excellent dust boots... the come w/ the guide or can be had separately...
*https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/router-attachments-medium-large-routers-ra1172at-27258-p/*
*RA1054 | Deluxe Router Guide | Bosch Power Tools*
*https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/boschtools-ocs/router-attachments-medium-large-routers-ra1175-34562-p/*


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

Stick486 said:


> 1.. till you need CS and parts in a few years and that router has issues w/ wood chips getting/falling into it and destroying the pick up sensor which you will be repairing at your own expense
> (could not find the thread on this)...
> 2... Bosch DC, inferior, no, not even... you do know that Bosch has some most excellent dust boots.. the come w/ the guide or can be had separately...
> RA1172AT | Two-Hood Dust Extraction Kit | Bosch Power Tools
> ...


Sorry, all the DUST CHUTES as sold by Bosch are AFTER-THOUGHTs and are IMHO really INFERIOR. Won't work well under Router table.

Reason I took out my Hitachi M12V with their $95 AFTER-THOUGHT optional dust chute was it is NOT as effective as Dewalts 621 design.


“When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character (i.e. your soul) is lost, all is lost.” Billy Graham.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

reuelt said:


> Sorry, all the DUST CHUTES as sold by Bosch are AFTER-THOUGHTs and are IMHO really INFERIOR. Won't work well under Router table.
> Reason I took out my Hitachi M12V with their $95 AFTER-THOUGHT optional dust chute was it is NOT as effective as Dewalts 621 design.
> 
> 
> “When wealth is lost, nothing is lost; when health is lost, something is lost; when character (i.e. your soul) is lost, all is lost.” Billy Graham.


to each his own...
I have no issues w/ the efficiency of the DC system on my router table...
and I don't use boots... just thought it out is all...


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

This picture is from Amazon.
Bosch 1617EVS is advertised full of dust - MDF and Hardwood DUSTs are bad for YOUR HEALTH

The equivalent DeWalts with built-in column dust extractor would be free of dust - if connected with a shopvac with HEPA filter. Shopvacs are better than fan based DUST extractors to get rid of fine dusts from small ports.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

and you show a picture of a Bosch router in use w/o a vac hooked up to it...
yet you keep talking about a DW hooked to a vac...
DUH!!!

DeWalt (B&D group) are good tools, for the Hobbyist, but CS can suck at times and after a few years repair parts tend to be problem too.. All of my DW's and my employees' DeWalt tools have long since gone to the scrap yard for the lack of support/parts... How about that.. I have VOW w/ DeWalt...
Do you see a trend here w/ what's offered by the B&D group... Planned obsolescence... 
*
WHY I LIKE BOSCH...*
2nd to none CS/TS support that's American based and absolutely painless... They been known to support their tools that have been discontinued to your benefit...
Their tools/routers are real work horses...
W/ Bosch planned obsolesce isn't one of their games and offer less all around grief for they make quality tools that protect will protect your bottom line...

Their routers are comfortable to use routers, they so are much more feature rich, sweet soft start, way better fine depth adjustment, strong no nonsense collets, better built accessories and so much more... 
I think/believe Bosch to be an excellent and outstanding company... 

When I had problems with two of their 1617 routers... a really old abused one and and a new one out of the box.. (it sounded terrible - gravely).... only took a day and all was well even with the old one and I never had to leave the shop.....
Bosch is as close as a phone call and your mail box... 
Bosch consistently scores high in/on all categories of quality, CS/TS, reliability and support, is as close as a phone call and your mail box... 
Keep in mind, that saving some money now just may cost you more down the road... 
In short... They, Bosch, respect us, the consumer...

*Notes:*
B&D Group current brands and subsidiaries...

DeWalt
Porter Cable
Craftsman
Emhart Teknologies 
Oldham Blades 
Black and Decker Firestorm 
Vector 
Dust Buster
Stanley
Vidmar
Proto
Powers
Sears Craftsman..


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

But A picture of the Dewalts 618 from Amazon shows NO DUST
Design vs. Afterthoughts


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

reuelt said:


> But A picture of the Dewalts 618 from Amazon shows NO DUST
> Design vs. Afterthoughts


like I said...
DW hooked up...
Bosch not hooked up...
w/ not a grain of sawdust showing in the DW picture... I truely doubt it was even turned on...


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Or a Festtool*

Don't buy a Bosch - because Dewalts and Festtool have models with built-in dust port to HOOK UP but Bosch has NONE.
Optional dust chutes as afterthoughts are INFERIOR and not the same.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Dust chute by Bosch won't work upside down*

Look at the picture. This chute by Bosch is useless when under the table.

Sorry truth hurts.


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Hey; this is getting a bit testy, guys.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

DaninVan said:


> Hey; this is getting a bit testy, guys.


no it ain't...
I'm done...


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Sorry!*



DaninVan said:


> Hey; this is getting a bit testy, guys.


This is a forum so let the truth be known. The dust shoots kit by Bosch will cost about US40 extra and nobody would ship them to Australia.

You cannot use any template guides when you fit the Bosch's dust shoot. The host at the side obstruct your view and the thin plastic is easily breakable.

I had recommend the DeWalts or the Festool in good faith because that is what I would buy instead of the Bosch. To me heath is more important.


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## MikeMa (Jul 27, 2006)

I have 3 of the Bosch 1617 kits. One dedicated to my router table, one for the CNC I am building, and the other for hand-held use. The one on my router table I bought back in 2005, and has been a work horse. I have used a panel raising bit, with no issues. When I built my second table, I built it with dust collection in mind, where I have the table hooked up to my big dust collector. The area below the router is enclosed, and has a 4" connection to to my dust collector at the bottom rear. I also have have a 2.5" hose tee-d off that goes up to my fence, so I have dust collection both above and below the table. I have found this to be very effective.

I do 85% of my routing at the router table, so I haven't bought a dust collection setup for the router yet. I have been looking at the universal one that Oneida came out with a couple years ago, based on the reviews it sounds like it is very effective.

As a note, no router dust collection system is going to be 100% effective, and I wouldn't recommend rating their effectiveness based on marketing photos that are staged to show off the product. (the routers aren't even running in those photos) The router is probably the most versatile tool in our shops, which due to the nature having effective dust collection that works for every operation is difficult at best. In my shop, I keep an air filter running, and also have a respirator to use as well, in addition to the dust collection I have setup.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Bosch's dust collection is hopeless*



MikeMa said:


> As a note, no router dust collection system is going to be 100% effective, and I wouldn't recommend rating their effectiveness based on marketing photos that are staged to show off the product. (the routers aren't even running in those photos) The router is probably the most versatile tool in our shops, which due to the nature having effective dust collection that works for every operation is difficult at best. In my shop, I keep an air filter running, and also have a respirator to use as well, in addition to the dust collection I have setup.


That was why I recommended the Dewalt design. I only have a CLONE of that design. I found out that I do not even need a box under the table and I am dust free even on the floor. It has a built in Dust Chute through one column and is almost 100% effective freehand and under the table. You can even use guide bushes with the Dust collection. You can do that on a Bosch or Makita or Triton.

I have been a factory manager with more than 3,000 employees for 15 years before. I know your solution of dust collection solution is NOT effective. Oneida drawing air from an enclosure under the router table would make the router's own cooling fan ineffective in cooling the motor. Routers + Portable Sanders - use a Shopvac thru a MINI cyclone. A dusty with reduced size port size is almost useless.

Tablesaw and planers - then only you use a high volume Dusty which will be quite effective.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

This whole discussion in my opinion has boiled down to not which is the better router, but to which router has the better dust collection. There are many ways to fix the dust collection independent of the router including a broom, which was the way Many, many years before dust collection was ever thought of.

There is no need for a DIY for example to buy a top of the line commercial duty router for intermittent use. The user will learn what is best for them and work their way up to what works best for them in the long run. I started with a Stanley, Craftsman, Skil, Trend, PC, Freud, Milwaukee, Makita, DeWalt, Bosch. I found that what is important to me is how they feel, and handle for me, and the quality and ease of job they will do. Dust collection is the last criteria on the list, I have a broom for that. My priorities are Ease of use, Quality of cut, Ability to see what I am doing, dependability of router. Dust collection isn't even on the list. If a Harbor Freight router gives me these things then I am satisfied.

Herb


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

you were doing okay Herb till you got to the Herber part..


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

Stick486 said:


> you were doing okay Herb till you got to the Herber part..


I'm not hard to please. I went for 37 years with only a dollar in my billfold to call home if I was stranded.
, and she could come and pick me up.

Herb


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## DaninVan (Jan 1, 2012)

Operative word being "...could..."


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

If you have a ROUTER with Better dust collection DESIGNED IN.
1.	You will stay more healthy by breathing cleaner air avoiding fine MDF and Hard wood dusts, So you will reduce risk of making widows and orphans too early.
2.	Your cuts and dadoes will be more accurate. Furniture will be more beautiful. Blind dados will not get jam and make the router bit wonder – damaging you work piece or cause accidents.
3.	Your router will last longer. Router motor will not heat up. Bearing will not wear as fast.
4.	The plunge pillars will always remain smooth as new.
5.	Switches will not malfunction.
6.	You will be spending less on ineffective DUSTY.
The GMC R2050 router that I have that imitated the Dewalt 621 design only cost me AUD100. (About US60). I bought the FLOOR DEMO unit from Bunnings – without carton. So I am not talking about cost or any brand but JUST better DESIGN.
ALL toady’s “METOO” routers copied the CARTER (fixed base) design or the ELU (plunge base) design. They took advantage of expired patterns and did nothing more.
Only Dewalt in USA and Festtool in the EU made innovative patterned designs of their routers to CARE FOR THE USERS HEALTH.


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

reuelt said:


> If you have a ROUTER with Better dust collection DESIGNED IN.
> 1.	You will stay more healthy by breathing cleaner air avoiding fine MDF and Hard wood dusts, So you will reduce risk of making widows and orphans too early.
> 2.	Your cuts and dadoes will be more accurate. Furniture will be more beautiful. Blind dados will not get jam and make the router bit wonder – damaging you work piece or cause accidents.
> 3.	Your router will last longer. Router motor will not heat up. Bearing will not wear as fast.
> ...


You can dwell on your dust, I will go for quality and and ease of use. To me there is nothing safe about having a flex hose on a handheld router to fight while I am trying to make a cut. Not to mention that high pitched whine of a vacuum cleaner doing dust collection.
Herb


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## old coasty (Aug 15, 2014)

Isn't it time to stop worrying about who has the last word, and turn it off?


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

*Compare designs*

Some companies have better design - for your health


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## woodknots (Mar 7, 2012)

The original poster started this thread by asking a simple question - is the Bosch 1617 a good router to install in a router table.

This thread has gone sideways and turned into a discussion on which router has the best dust collection.

A discussion on dust collection should have had it's OWN THREAD rather than hijacking this one.


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Thanks Vince. I've had enough of this argument. Everyone's made their points. I didn't like the height adjustment on the DeWalt, so I went with Bosch and Triton. Personal preference applies. Dust collection is a big deal to me as a throat cancer survivor, and Bosch/Triton, masks, under table and fence collection and a big dust collector with drum filter, plus a ceiling mount air filter unit work out fine for me. Peace be with us please.


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## twmv86 (Oct 14, 2018)

Now that the dust has settled I have come to the conclusion this thread is going to cost me some money one way or the other. I have an early 90's pc 7518 mounted in an open stand table that really wasn't used a ton. after making some furniture its just sat for years. I'm just getting back into woodworking after retirement and find the above table adjustment stuff intriguing. 
my dilemma today is would the mastr lift2 for the 7518 be the way to go or just get the 1617evs and a nice plate and make a nice enclosed table. either way my back is dictating i need to stay above table.

I don't plan on running the massive bits that needed the horsepower of the 7518. projects this time around will be smaller.

If I was starting from scratch today the 1617 would be a no brainer but since i have the 7518 already I think a bit more study is required. I don't think the 1617 was available back then. I have an old 2hp 1613evs plunge the was the bees knees at the time and I don't remember them offered in a combo or I probably would have bought one.

gonna start digging again for more threads like this. Pointing me to any other threads on the subject or advice is welcome. I sure appreciate the knowledge in this thread. But its definitely gonna cost me.

This is a great site. I wish I had found it a long time ago.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

7518 and the JessEm lift...
that's the no brainer...


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## Herb Stoops (Aug 28, 2012)

I have the 3hp.PC in the Jessem lift and it does well with the smaller bits. I also have the Bosh 1617 in a Rockler lift on another table and it does well too. In my opinion the fixed base Bosch 1617 mounted in a table using the fixed base as a lift is a marginal way to go. You still have to reach under,lift it out, or someway lock and unlock the base to make adjustments in height,thus having another chance for error by minute changes of height from that operation. In any event I have tried it both ways and had better results with a separate lift. My advice is keep the PC and Jessem lift, get a bushing for the collet to use 1/4" shank bits and it will do anything you want.
Herb


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

@twmv86 Ahhh, to complicate things further, the Jessem lift is $299 on Amazon. You could keep the PC for hand held use and get a Triton TRA001 for the table. It's about $280, but search for a better price. It is 3.25 hp, has a good reputation. I have a couple of 1617s because I replaced them with the Triton. I had the Rockler lift and sold it to Herb (to the best of my recollection). You might find a used Jessem lift, but make sure it will fit the PC router. I used my old Rockler plate for the Triton, but later swapped it for a thicker Woodpecker plate. Most routers today still have threaded holes to match the PC mounting pattern. Here's where you can download the instruction manual for the Triton. Worth considering  *http://www.tritontools.com/Helpers/GetImage.ashx?type=InstructionManual&size=&name=523504_Manual.PDF*

BTW, it has diversion channels to keep the dust out of the motor, so dust collection into a box is possible.


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## TWheels (May 26, 2006)

@ironman21, a slightly dissenting view. Bosch routers are indeed very highly regarded here. The 1617EVSPK has round wooden handles. The MRC23EVSK costs a few more bucks but has handles that might be more ergonomic and the power switch is mounted on the handle. The MRC configuration has both the fixed base and the plunge base.


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## twmv86 (Oct 14, 2018)

Thanks tom. I'd never heard of triton until recently. I think the pc is over powered for the type of stuff I'm going to do now. I don't think another beefy router is where I wanna go. I have a 690 and an old 2 hp Bosch plunge plus the dw 611 with both bases I bought before I found this place. I guess I had thought of looking into the 1617 because so its good reviews and money wise it would allow me to build a better table faster. After seeing some of the ones people here have built I'm definitely wanting to upgrade there. Just cant do everything at once. Anyways thanks again all.


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## Stick486 (Jan 4, 2013)

I've been there w/ inverted routers..
lots of quirks...

I have the JessEm/PC set up...
life is easy...
life is accurate...
life is good...


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## Richard (St. Helena) (2 mo ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> Welcome to the Forum. Glad you have joined the fun. The following has been posted before so those who have read it before may wish to skip it.
> 
> These are the 17+ things that really helped me get going with woodworking. Hope it helps you as much as they did me.
> 
> ...


I am new to this forum and to woodworking. Thank you for this amazing post, which is broadly helpful!


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## DesertRatTom (Jul 3, 2012)

Richard (St. Helena) said:


> I am new to this forum and to woodworking. Thank you for this amazing post, which is broadly helpful!


Welcome, and I'm glad you found my pdf "novella" useful. I also hope it saves you some mis-steps and unnecessary purchases. I bought all my gear in the decade before I had to retire, my peak earning years. And I bought a number of things I really don't use very often. The one I regret most was a sliding, compound miter saw. It is overkill and most of the time I wind up using it as a chop saw, which would have been much cheaper.


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## jw2170 (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Richard,


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## old55 (Aug 11, 2013)

Welcome to the forum @Richard (St. Helena)


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## Richard (St. Helena) (2 mo ago)

DesertRatTom said:


> So, now you've gotten a lot of feedback on routers. Keeping it simple is a good idea.
> 
> I started with the EVSPK kit, and a Rockler table with their router lift. What I have now is a Triton TRA001 in the table and a 1617 in each base, the fixed and the plunge. Those are for freehand work now. Later on, I added a Bosch Colt, which is a small, 1 hp trim router that only accepts 1/4 inch shaft bits. I find myself using the handy Colt whenever I can.
> 
> ...


Thanks, as always with your posts, very helpful. I'm thinking of buying my first table saw, and see that Harbor Freight is selling a 10", 15A Warrior table saw for $159.00. The reviews are pretty positive, although some folks don't care for the fence. *Table Saws - Harbor Freight Tools* I know that you and others here like the Bosch 4100, but it's $600.00, and I'm a home DIY'er. Any thoughts on this?


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

Richard (St. Helena) said:


> Thanks, as always with your posts, very helpful. I'm thinking of buying my first table saw, and see that Harbor Freight is selling a 10", 15A Warrior table saw for $159.00. The reviews are pretty positive, although some folks don't care for the fence. *Table Saws - Harbor Freight Tools* I know that you and others here like the Bosch 4100, but it's $600.00, and I'm a home DIY'er. Any thoughts on this?


That Warrior table saw is too small (not wide enough)
Try spending about $300
e.g.go for
*Evolution Rage 5S* or *Rockwell RK7241S *

Useful Table Saw should be able to cut wide sheets, have dust collection ready and reasonably level and accurate and safe to use.

No point buying a small table saw if most of the time you have to use your portable circular saw or mitre saw just because the material is too big or too long for your table saw.

Get a circular saw with a guide first while you save up for a better table saw.


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## Richard (St. Helena) (2 mo ago)

reuelt said:


> That Warrior table saw is too small (not wide enough)
> Try spending about $300
> e.g.go for
> *Evolution Rage 5S* or *Rockwell RK7241S *
> ...


Great advice, thanks. I’m going to continue using my circular saw for rips — I built an adjustable guide — while I save up for the new compact Sawstop table saw.


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## reuelt (Dec 29, 2008)

Richard (St. Helena) said:


> Great advice, thanks. I’m going to continue using my circular saw for rips — I built an adjustable guide — while I save up for the new compact Sawstop table saw.


Yes, new compact Sawstop table saw 24" max. RIP Cut is MUCH better.
Warrier Table saw has ONLY 9" max rip cut

(I once bought a cheap table saw and was very disappointed. I had to attach a Triton sliding extension table to the left, a router table wing to the right to add support, built a output support table at the back and a roller stand at the front to be to use it - ALL COSTED MONEY. So I always wished I had bought a bigger table saw in the first place,
Even then, my portable circular saw and portable router + jigs and guides and hand planes are more useful for building real life-size functional funitures).


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